# The Finance Thread



## Memories of Silence (May 15, 2015)

This is a thread for the discussion of money, investing, retirement, savings, debt, budgeting and anything else to do with finances.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Won't be posting in this thread a whole lot, lol.


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## James10145 (Dec 20, 2019)

I invested my savings into property


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Oh sweet! 

Really sucks that the feds have lowered saving rates at banks. My high yield savings is only at .6% now. On another not pretty sweet that I don't have to worry about student loan repayments till December.


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## SparklingWater (Jan 16, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> Oh sweet!
> 
> Really sucks that the feds have lowered saving rates at banks. My high yield savings is only at .6% now. On another not pretty sweet that I don't have to worry about student loan repayments till December.


Yup. My next payment is January 28th!


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

SparklingWater said:


> Yup. My next payment is January 28th!


Gives me a breather with everything else I'm dealing with.


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## Were (Oct 16, 2006)

I saw today that U.S. economy shrank at 32.9% annual rate in the second quarter, that's crazy.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Hopefully in less than 2yrs I can start investing 15% towards retirement. No later than age 32.


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## Raies (Nov 3, 2016)

Well idk what to write here tbh. I don't really invest my money (despite having some savings), due to not knowing enough about what I'm putting my money on.

I know I probably could figure out how to benefit from that, but don't really have the energy to dwell in that deeply enough to put my money in it yet. (Although, I've scratched the surface a little bit, but it would require a lot more work).

Was thinking about buying a small amount of amd stock b4 the release of zen 2, but didn't in the end. (This is basically the only field where I'd feel somewhat confident in investing due to having at least some knowledge about the products)


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## leaf in the wind (Mar 28, 2017)

PSA for Canadians and Quebecois. The tax payment deadline for 2019 has been extended to September 30 from today. We can hold onto our money an extra month.

Good for me because my online banking isn't working so I wouldn't have made the original payment deadline anyway...


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## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

Kevin001 said:


> Oh sweet!
> 
> Really sucks that the feds have lowered saving rates at banks. My high yield savings is only at .6% now. On another not pretty sweet that I don't have to worry about student loan repayments till December.


Seems like every time I check my savings APY, it keeps dropping. Right now it's .85%. Fortunately my IRA recovered.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Nada said:


> Seems like every time I check my savings APY, it keeps dropping. Right now it's .85%. Fortunately my IRA recovered.


Thats not bad considering everything. Roth IRA? Speaking on investments I might switch out my small and medium cap allotments in my 401k for something more aggressive. Trying to diverse but not many options at Wells Fargo.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Just switched my mid cap index fund for a total market index fund.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

It'll be nice going a few dollars without spending any money.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

For Finance check out Dave Ramsey's program. His 7 baby steps. Has helped me a lot. Will tell you how to get out of debt and start investing.

https://www.daveramsey.com/dave-ramsey-7-baby-steps


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Yay for corrections

S&P 500 -3.51%
NASDAQ -4.96%
DJI -2.78%


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Not sure when to rebalance my 401K



chrisinmd said:


> For Finance check out Dave Ramsey's program. His 7 baby steps. Has helped me a lot. Will tell you how to get out of debt and start investing.
> 
> https://www.daveramsey.com/dave-ramsey-7-baby-steps


True!


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Not sure when to rebalance my 401K


It is usually advised to rebalance 2 times a year. Once in Jan and once in July. Or every 6 months


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> It is usually advised to rebalance 2 times a year. Once in Jan and once in July. Or every 6 months


Got 4 allocations lower 2 are at 23% now might wait till they near 20%.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Got 4 allocations lower 2 are at 23% now might wait till they near 20%.


So you want to rebalance all 4 of them to 25 percent each? Your not to far off at all so I would wait to rebalance until it gets a bit more out of balance. Is there a fee to rebalance or a limit to how many times you can rebalance? If not then there is no penalty so you might as well just rebalance now


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> So you want to rebalance all 4 of them to 25 percent each? Your not to far off at all so I would wait to rebalance until it gets a bit more out of balance. Is there a fee to rebalance or a limit to how many times you can rebalance? If not then there is no penalty so you might as well just rebalance now


There is no rush just trying to see when to rebalance. Got 2 at 27% and 2 at 23%. Not much difference right now.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

either/or said:


> Yay for corrections
> 
> S&P 500 -3.51%
> NASDAQ -4.96%
> DJI -2.78%


Yay recession yay

S&P 500 -.81%
NASDAQ -1.27%
DJI -.56%


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Kevin001 said:


> Not sure when to rebalance my 401K


You should do it based on market conditions. When the market started to drop due to Covid I put most of my 401k into a bond fund to preserve capital. When it bottomed out and headed back north I put it in risky emerging market and small cap funds to maximize gains. Looks like its back to the bond fund again, wah wah wah.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

either/or said:


> You should do it based on market conditions. When the market started to drop due to Covid I put most of my 401k into a bond fund to preserve capital. When it bottomed out and headed back north I put it in risky emerging market and small cap funds to maximize gains. Looks like its back to the bond fund again, wah wah wah.


Yeah I don't let the market run me, I always stay the course. All stocks. 3 growths and one international.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

At my current rate 27% of my income is going on debt.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

I wish there was a job i could do for like 2-3 hours every sunday for some extra cash. I signed up for this banquet thing a few years back where I was a server at a hotel for a day or 2 and could pick my days in advance through an app. but its too tiring and 1 day events are rare.

Been trying to set up a blog since feb when i quit my last job but i can't think of what to write and honestly Im just relieved that no one has read the few posts i made so far, let alone try to monetise and advertise it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Kevin001 said:


> Yeah I don't let the market run me, I always stay the course. All stocks. 3 growths and one international.


You gotta adapt to the ebbs and flows of the market if you want to maximize gains and minimize losses. Your timing strategy is very important. If done correctly you will retire with tens of thousands more than you will otherwise. It makes no sense to hold onto your positions within a 401k during a correction, you're just throwing money away. You won't pay any CG tax for liquidating those positions within the 401k and then moving them into fixed income or money markets where you can preserve your capital. You can then continue to contribute on the dips and then when the market bottoms out put it back into stocks. Usually the market bottoms out at between a 20-25% retreat from 52-week highs. You can tell when it's bottomed because additional negative economic news will no longer push prices down. Basically selling in the market has been exhausted. That's when you get back in. And guess what? You just protected yourself from losing 25% of your retirement savings and then you will gain another 25% on the recovery as prices rise. And that is why you don't just say the course.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

^^ You can mess around with it if you want :stu. I follow Dave's investing plan.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

What are the best investments you all have ever made? Below are mine. Wish all my investments could be this successful. Don't think I've ever lost any money but some of the stocks I've bought haven't really appreciated at all.

*First Trust Dow Jones Internet Index* - 215% gain since 2015
*Proshares Ultra QQQ 2X NASDAQ* - 176% gain since 2018
*McDonald's Stock* - 125% gain since 2015


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

mt moyt said:


> I wish there was a job i could do for like 2-3 hours every sunday for some extra cash. I signed up for this banquet thing a few years back where I was a server at a hotel for a day or 2 and could pick my days in advance through an app. but its too tiring and 1 day events are rare.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are able to drive jobs like Uber or lyft would be good. Or you could do the delivery services like doordash. Set your own schedule and work when you want to


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> If you are able to drive jobs like Uber or lyft would be good. Or you could do the delivery services like doordash. Set your own schedule and work when you want to


Cars are too expensive here unfortunately, but yeah probably something along those lines are the main options. I could get a new bike and do a bit of delivery, mines like 10 years old anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I've got to get my income up, I'm good with cutting expenses but I'm just not making enough. Extra $500 a month is the goal by end of year.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Hope to open a IRA then convert it to a Roth in a year or two hopefully.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Is it easy to open an IRA account? Can you do it online?


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Is it easy to open an IRA account? Can you do it online?


Yes it can be done online. Charles Schwab has very good IRA's. https://www.schwab.com/ira


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Yes it can be done online. Charles Schwab has very good IRA's. https://www.schwab.com/ira


Oh ok sweet, not ready to but when the time comes good to know.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

I really need to start investing towards retirement. I also want to buy a house but what sucks is with the low interest rates and small inventory the prices are getting ridiculous. The economy is crippled yet prices are higher than they were in 2007 now. You think I'm going to buy a house in that kind of market? LOL


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I need to be bringing in more income need to be debt free asap. The more I bring in the more I can give as well .


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

shyguy07 said:


> I really need to start investing towards retirement. I also want to buy a house but what sucks is with the low interest rates and small inventory the prices are getting ridiculous. The economy is crippled yet prices are higher than they were in 2007 now. You think I'm going to buy a house in that kind of market? LOL


Are saving for a down payment now? Whats your price range? We have some good priced homes here but I live in the south and I know prices tend to be cheaper here.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Hope to only spend $40 a month on gas.


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## Manooffewwords (Jun 25, 2015)

I have some savings and no debt.


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## Manooffewwords (Jun 25, 2015)

mt moyt said:


> I wish there was a job i could do for like 2-3 hours every sunday for some extra cash. I signed up for this banquet thing a few years back where I was a server at a hotel for a day or 2 and could pick my days in advance through an app. but its too tiring and 1 day events are rare.
> 
> Been trying to set up a blog since feb when i quit my last job but i can't think of what to write and honestly Im just relieved that no one has read the few posts i made so far, let alone try to monetise and advertise it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can help you set up your blog if you want to.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

Kevin001 said:


> Are saving for a down payment now? Whats your price range? We have some good priced homes here but I live in the south and I know prices tend to be cheaper here.


I've been saving 8 1/2 years. LOL I live with my parents so I'm able to save up quite a bit, plus I don't spend that much money, especially this year.

I could probably get a pretty good house right now for $150-160,000 which isn't that bad compared to other parts of the country. I could put like $60,000 down payment and it would be pretty affordable. Thing is if I lost my job there's no way I could afford it if I had to work minimum wage or part time. I'm just the kind of person that doesn't like to take risks with things like that.

I also kind of want to wait until coronavirus isn't slowing down the economy anymore because things are kind of iffy right now. Honestly though, I don't think it's going to affect houses as much as people thought - but we still have a long way to go it seems. But I don't think they're going to go down much, if any. But I'd hate to buy something and then they all drop like 2009 again. When I was looking into buying a house like 8 years ago you could get a nice small house for $60,000. But I didn't have much money back then and I'd just started working full time.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

Kevin001 said:


> Hope to only spend $40 a month on gas.


It depends on how far you live from work and stuff. I can usually get about two-three weeks on a tank if I don't go out much other than work and it costs about $40 to fill my car up. When I used to drive 45 minutes to church two-three times a week it really costed me some gas. I don't miss having to drive that much.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

shyguy07 said:


> I've been saving 8 1/2 years. LOL I live with my parents so I'm able to save up quite a bit, plus I don't spend that much money, especially this year.
> 
> I could probably get a pretty good house right now for $150-160,000 which isn't that bad compared to other parts of the country. I could put like $60,000 down payment and it would be pretty affordable. Thing is if I lost my job there's no way I could afford it if I had to work minimum wage or part time. I'm just the kind of person that doesn't like to take risks with things like that.
> 
> I also kind of want to wait until coronavirus isn't slowing down the economy anymore because things are kind of iffy right now. Honestly though, I don't think it's going to affect houses as much as people thought - but we still have a long way to go it seems. But I don't think they're going to go down much, if any. But I'd hate to buy something and then they all drop like 2009 again. When I was looking into buying a house like 8 years ago you could get a nice small house for $60,000. But I didn't have much money back then and I'd just started working full time.


You're in a good spot bro, you might have enough to buy a house outright soon. For me getting at least 20% down and a low interest with 15 yr rate is my key points.



shyguy07 said:


> It depends on how far you live from work and stuff. I can usually get about two-three weeks on a tank if I don't go out much other than work and it costs about $40 to fill my car up. When I used to drive 45 minutes to church two-three times a week it really costed me some gas. I don't miss having to drive that much.


Yeah true


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

My 401k is just looking awful. Not sure if I'm invested right or not.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

Manooffewwords said:


> I can help you set up your blog if you want to.


Thanks, its more of what to write though, have to figure that out first.


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## Manooffewwords (Jun 25, 2015)

mt moyt said:


> Thanks, its more of what to write though, have to figure that out first.


Did you use WordPress or other CMS for your blog?
I'm happy to help with SEO, in case you need it.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I should be able to save 30% of my income. We'll see. Really need to look at career options.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Too many carry around debt like its a pet. Once I get debt free, never again.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

The market is up today at least.


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## Cletis (Oct 10, 2011)

chrisinmd said:


> It is usually advised to rebalance 2 times a year. Once in Jan and once in July. Or every 6 months


You can buy balanced mutual funds that do the balancing for you.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Cletis said:


> You can buy balanced mutual funds that do the balancing for you.


I have a portfolio that automatically rebalance at Charles Schwab. Works pretty well.

https://www.schwab.com/intelligent-...17296&ef_id=XxNPLAAABfZsmkgb:20200915073741:s


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Wonder if I should invest 15% or don't and just save for a home down payment first (in a couple of years).


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Wonder if I should invest 15% or don't and just save for a home down payment first (in a couple of years).


I would save for the home down payment first. Or you could do both at the same time but it will take you longer to save up the down payment that way. Im assuming you have no other debt. If you do pay that off first


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

^^ Yeah

Picking up extra hrs could have me living off just 62-65% of my income.


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

Kevin001 said:


> Too many carry around debt like its a pet. Once I get debt free, never again.


I agree, & I'm pretty close to getting to baseline again


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

^^ Awesome bro! 

Paying off debt is like cleaning up your past mistakes.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

My financial goals are:

~ Be debt free by 31
~ Have 6 month emergency fund by 32
~ Start investing 15% for retirement at 32
~ Have at least 20% for downpayment for a home by age 37 (150K range if single)
~ Have paid off home by 50 
~ Invest more and be a millionaire by 65


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Wish I could of started investing at 20. But I should be able to really go all in at 32. Still learning more and more about investing though.


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## cmed (Oct 17, 2009)

Great buying opportunity right now. September is historically a bad month for the stock market.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Would be almost to start maxing out a roth ira by age 31.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

So not a fan of gift tax.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

$12 over budget this month...meh. Really need to bring in more income to get out of debt fast.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I need to pay off debt but having an emergency fund is such a safety blanket especially with my life. Not sure where I'll be in 6 months.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

How long does it take for me to withdraw my money? Got deposited like 6 days ago, come on Yotta.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Started a Christmas fund .


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Market boomed today!


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Kevin001 said:


> At my current rate 27% of my income is going on debt.


Does that 27% include mortgage? If so, that's not bad at all.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

gunner21 said:


> Does that 27% include mortgage? If so, that's not bad at all.


Yeah, now up to 30%. Looking for part time work or overtime at work now though. Applied at a local target might even try Walmart. I'm excellent with money I just don't make enough of it. Extra $500-$1000 a month would be amazing.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Open a Yotta account on September 25th, I've deposited 3 grand in the account but not a single dollar has deposited in the account yet. Its been taken out of bank account though. Contacted the company waiting on a response..........


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> Yeah, now up to 30%. Looking for part time work or overtime at work now though. Applied at a local target might even try Walmart. I'm excellent with money I just don't make enough of it. Extra $500-$1000 a month would be amazing.


Are there any better work options around now that you're driving? Factory work maybe? Prison guard pays okay starting out and you could probably get on third shift and not really have to be around the inmates much. Or commercial driving you can expect a fair wage right away. It's not all semis and long distance driving. Plenty of other options like bus driving or local delivery with box trucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> Are there any better work options around now that you're driving? Factory work maybe? Prison guard pays okay starting out and you could probably get on third shift and not really have to be around the inmates much. Or commercial driving you can expect a fair wage right away. It's not all semis and long distance driving. Plenty of other options like bus driving or local delivery with box trucks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not ready for a driving job but picking up another job would be nice.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Why are homes so expensive? With the taxes and insurance plus the interest rate phew.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Why are homes so expensive? With the taxes and insurance plus the interest rate phew.


Depends on where you live. I live in the suburbs of Wash DC area and to buy just a townhouse it costs you min. of $250,000. Single family home your looking in the 3 to 4 hundred thousand range at the low end.

Interest rate are pretty low now to buy a house so that should not be a problem. You can get a 30 year mortgage in the 4 percent range. Which is very good historically.

What part of louisiana do you live in? Expensive are like New Orleans or out in the swamp somewhere? lol If your outside the city I imagine you could find a affordable house to buy. Dont buy unless you have 20 percent to put down at least. Saves you a lot of money


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> My financial goals are:
> 
> ~ Be debt free by 31
> ~ Have 6 month emergency fund by 32
> ...


Good plan. What is your income and how much debt do you have if you dont mind me asking? Helps me work the numbers for you


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> Are there any better work options around now that you're driving? Factory work maybe? Prison guard pays okay starting out and you could probably get on third shift and not really have to be around the inmates much. Or commercial driving you can expect a fair wage right away. It's not all semis and long distance driving. Plenty of other options like bus driving or local delivery with box trucks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I use to work as a Prison Guard for a few years. It pays decent. You can get a lot of overtime and good benefits. Its a good career. You can move up the ranks pretty quick as well to increase your pay.

Get your CDL is a good option as well. Find a company that will pay for your training


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Depends on where you live. I live in the suburbs of Wash DC area and to buy just a townhouse it costs you min. of $250,000. Single family home your looking in the 3 to 4 hundred thousand range at the low end.
> 
> Interest rate are pretty low now to buy a house so that should not be a problem. You can get a 30 year mortgage in the 4 percent range. Which is very good historically.
> 
> What part of louisiana do you live in? Expensive are like New Orleans or out in the swamp somewhere? lol If your outside the city I imagine you could find a affordable house to buy. Dont buy unless you have 20 percent to put down at least. Saves you a lot of money


Would never get 30yr mortgage or 4%, way too much. 20yr max and 3% max. The house being paid off at 50 is now more like 60.



chrisinmd said:


> Good plan. What is your income and how much debt do you have if you dont mind me asking? Helps me work the numbers for you


Owe 23K, 19K saved excluding retirement, and hope to bring in 2k a month by Dec. $2500 by end of next year.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> I use to work as a Prison Guard for a few years. It pays decent. You can get a lot of overtime and good benefits. Its a good career. You can move up the ranks pretty quick as well to increase your pay.
> 
> Get your CDL is a good option as well. Find a company that will pay for your training


I hear the benefits are pretty great with prison work being it's a government job. Starting pay isn't amazing, but there's overtime and room for advancement.

I paid for my Class A CDL schooling with a 0% interest for 12 months credit card. Then paid it off in full once I was working and got it paid before my 12 months was up. My current job only requires a Class B with HAZMAT, so I could've saved a lot just getting the Class B initially, but I guess it's good to have more options if/when I'm looking for work again.

Driving Class A vehicles is pretty stressful really, I prefer Class B anyway. Money isn't as good, but driving a straight truck isn't that difficult once you're used to the size. I'm guessing what you drive is pretty similar size wise.



chrisinmd said:


> Depends on where you live. I live in the suburbs of Wash DC area and to buy just a townhouse it costs you min. of $250,000. Single family home your looking in the 3 to 4 hundred thousand range at the low end.
> 
> Interest rate are pretty low now to buy a house so that should not be a problem. You can get a 30 year mortgage in the 4 percent range. Which is very good historically.
> 
> What part of louisiana do you live in? Expensive are like New Orleans or out in the swamp somewhere? lol If your outside the city I imagine you could find a affordable house to buy. Dont buy unless you have 20 percent to put down at least. Saves you a lot of money


Is it always a bad idea not to put 20% down? I just bought mine last month with 3% down on a 30 year mortgage at 3.4% interest. No penalties for paying early and I'm shooting for 15 years or less if I don't move. Just didn't want a high monthly payment in case something happened and didn't want to dig deeper into savings for a higher down payment for the same reason. I did talk to the loan officer about refinancing later with more down.

I'm still really new to all this. Was still making minimum wage in 2017 and buying a house wasn't even a thought. Haven't made the best decisions so far besides saving a decent amount.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> Is it always a bad idea not to put 20% down? I just bought mine last month with 3% down on a 30 year mortgage at 3.4% interest. No penalties for paying early and I'm shooting for 15 years or less if I don't move. Just didn't want a high monthly payment in case something happened and didn't want to dig deeper into savings for a higher down payment for the same reason.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


3.4 percent is a pretty good rate that you got. It is a bad idea not to put 20 percent down though. If you put less then 20 percent down you have to have PMI insurance included in your mortgage and that costs a lot more. Look at your mortgage documents you will see how much they are charging you for PMI. Put 20 percent down you have to buy it


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

401k has been doing well this week and company is matching again.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

People don't realize unless you invest in the market your money isn't really growing. If you invest right you can be looking at 10% returns vs 3% tops with other savings options. No bank, CD, etc will give you more than that.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> People don't realize unless you invest in the market your money isn't really growing. If you invest right you can be looking at 10% returns vs 3% tops with other savings options. No bank, CD, etc will give you more than that.


Yes if you invest in the market you can make 10 percent or more vs putting your money in a savings option where you will earn far less. But you have risk of a certain portion of your money vs no risk of loss in savings

So you have to judge how much risk your willing to take


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Yes if you invest in the market you can make 10 percent or more vs putting your money in a savings option where you will earn far less. But you have risk of a certain portion of your money vs no risk of loss in savings
> 
> So you have to judge how much risk your willing to take


In the long haul you'll make more, short term yes you could lose.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> In the long haul you'll make more, short term yes you could lose.


Agree long term the stock market is the way to go. Will make a whole lot more money then in savings. If you need the money in 5 years or less to risky to put it in the market. Just put it in savings.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Agree long term the stock market is the way to go. Will make a whole lot more money then in savings. If you need the money in 5 years or less to risky to put it in the market. Just put it in savings.


I would say 3 or less, feel like the market wouldn't be down more than 3 .


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> I would say 3 or less, feel like the market wouldn't be down more than 3 .


The typical advice financial advisors give is 5 years but I would agree with you 3 years should be long enough under most circumstance.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> 3.4 percent is a pretty good rate that you got. It is a bad idea not to put 20 percent down though. If you put less then 20 percent down you have to have PMI insurance included in your mortgage and that costs a lot more. Look at your mortgage documents you will see how much they are charging you for PMI. Put 20 percent down you have to buy it


Looked over everything and I'm paying around $80 a month for the PMI. That's no good, so I'm shooting for maybe six months to a year to just go ahead and pay the 20%. Don't want to waste almost $1000 a year for very long.

I have a weird system to my savings with different accounts for light emergencies all the way to do not touch ever money, so I'd prefer to save up enough in my checking account to where I'm only using the light emergency account if that makes sense. 20% is just $17k minus what I've already put down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> Looked over everything and I'm paying around $80 a month for the PMI. That's no good, so I'm shooting for maybe six months to a year to just go ahead and pay the 20%. Don't want to waste almost $1000 a year for very long.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea you want to get rid of the 80 bucks a month as soon as possible. Check your mortgage documents to see what you have to do to get PMI removed. Some mortgage companies remove it automatically when you get 20 percent paid off. Others you have to request it be removed. I had to write a letter to them requesting to remove it.

So you got to stay on top of it they are not going to do it themselves without you requesting most likely. They want to keep taking your money!


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Company match is great!


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Company match is great!


Yep its free money. Always contribute up to the match amount. The company matches 6 percent you put in 6 percent to get the full amount of the match


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ok so I have about 150 thousand in mutual funds. But owe about 135 thousand on my mortgage at 3.25 percent. Would I be better off pretty much cashing out all my investments and pay off the house with it? Would be debt free with a paid off house once I do that with about 15 thousand left. 

Although I am going to owe some capital gains taxes as well if I cash out my investments so I need to figure that in as well. 

But I would also save some money by not having to pay interest on the mortgage anymore.

So what is the best option?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Yep its free money. Always contribute up to the match amount. The company matches 6 percent you put in 6 percent to get the full amount of the match


Can't afford to go up to 3% right now, rather pay off my debt faster.



chrisinmd said:


> Ok so I have about 150 thousand in mutual funds. But owe about 135 thousand on my mortgage at 3.25 percent. Would I be better off pretty much cashing out all my investments and pay off the house with it? Would be debt free with a paid off house once I do that with about 15 thousand left.
> 
> Although I am going to owe some capital gains taxes as well if I cash out my investments so I need to figure that in as well.
> 
> ...


If this is money for retirement I wouldn't pull it out.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Weird how my local bank high yield is still around 1.5% where my online bank which use to be way higher is now at .5%. I pretty much clean that out and put it in new "bank" for 2%.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Can't afford to go up to 3% right now, rather pay off my debt faster.
> 
> If this is money for retirement I wouldn't pull it out.


I would try to contribute up to the match amount at least. Not going to get a 100 percent return paying off debt. But paying off debt does reduce risk so its a tough call.

My money is not in a retirementment account so their is no penalty to pull it out. If it was I would not even think of paying the taxes and penalty to pay off my house


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

Looks like housing prices aren't going to crash. They seem to be going up with people moving out of NYC, CA and all the places that are really crowded and_ still _shut down.

I wish the virus mess was over so I could buy a house and feel more confident about the market once the stimulus checks and stuff end. But looks like prices are going to just keep climbing, and no crash after all.

Maybe I should just buy a house anyway. Work has been crazy lately, I've been making more than ever with overtime plus I just got a raise. My question is how long will it last though. Plus I'd really rather not buy at the top of the market. Should've bought about 6 years ago when prices were still pretty cheap.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

shyguy07 said:


> Looks like housing prices aren't going to crash. They seem to be going up with people moving out of NYC, CA and all the places that are really crowded and_ still _shut down.
> 
> I wish the virus mess was over so I could buy a house and feel more confident about the market once the stimulus checks and stuff end. But looks like prices are going to just keep climbing, and no crash after all.
> 
> Maybe I should just buy a house anyway. Work has been crazy lately, I've been making more than ever with overtime plus I just got a raise. My question is how long will it last though. Plus I'd really rather not buy at the top of the market. Should've bought about 6 years ago when prices were still pretty cheap.


Never let the market dictate your decision kinda like buying stock. Buy when you're ready and be ok with that .


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

shyguy07 said:


> Looks like housing prices aren't going to crash. They seem to be going up with people moving out of NYC, CA and all the places that are really crowded and_ still _shut down.


Just read a article on this. Housing and rental prices are dropping in top 5 cities for high income earners. NYC, Wash DC, San Fran, Seattle, Dallas.

Companies realize not they can do a lot of work remotely so they dont need people to live close to headquarters in a major city. So people are moving out to the suburbs and away from the city. Rent and home prices are going through the roof outside NYC in Conn. or the Jersey Shore for example where people want to buy and get out of the city.

So it depends on where you are looking to buy a place. If you want to buy a condo or open a business in downtown NYC you will get a very very good price right now.

Its all about location


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Paying off debt is the right thing but seeing your money gone sucks.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

shyguy07 said:


> Looks like housing prices aren't going to crash. They seem to be going up with people moving out of NYC, CA and all the places that are really crowded and_ still _shut down.
> 
> I wish the virus mess was over so I could buy a house and feel more confident about the market once the stimulus checks and stuff end. But looks like prices are going to just keep climbing, and no crash after all.
> 
> Maybe I should just buy a house anyway. Work has been crazy lately, I've been making more than ever with overtime plus I just got a raise. My question is how long will it last though. Plus I'd really rather not buy at the top of the market. Should've bought about 6 years ago when prices were still pretty cheap.


You should always let current market conditions inform your financial decisions. It is important not to ignore relevant data when making such an important decision that could affect the rest of your life. Consider all those people who didn't allow the market to dictate their decisions back in 2007 when they bought houses at the height of the real estate bubble prior to the '08 crash. A lot of them lost everything. I don't know anything about the housing market where you live but I would make sure I wasn't buying in at the top of a bubble. Housing is a lagging indicator and so the current crisis may not have impacted home prices yet. With rates at all time lows its a great time to finance a purchase, that's for sure. But I'm personally very weary of investing in any market marked by rising prices. I like to buy after the crash not just before it. I always buy stocks on the dips for instance and therefore always maximize my gains and don't have to worry about market corrections. If I were you I would very thoughtfully consider the state of the market before moving forward.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

either/or said:


> But I'm personally very weary of investing in any market marked by rising prices. I like to buy after the crash not just before it. I always buy stocks on the dips for instance and therefore always maximize my gains and don't have to worry about market corrections.


Very well said. That is the key to any successful investment. Dont buy at the top of the market. Wait for the dip and swoop in and buy.

The hard part if figuring out if the investment is (cheap) or going down in price due to just a temporary market correction. In which place it is a great time to buy. Or if it is a bad investment. House in a declining neighborhood or a company stock that is in a declining industry or has other problems within the company such as declining sales.

So buy the dip just make sure its likely to be a temporary dip.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

The lean f.i.r.e movement seems up my alley.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Thinking of changing my 401k to just a S&P index fund and an international stock. Right now its blue chip growth, mid cap, small cap, and international.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Need to open a Roth IRA by age 31.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

When people say they only get 6-7% returns I'm like thats a fail in my book especially over a decade's time. You should be getting 10% returns.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

either/or said:


> You should always let current market conditions inform your financial decisions. It is important not to ignore relevant data when making such an important decision that could affect the rest of your life. Consider all those people who didn't allow the market to dictate their decisions back in 2007 when they bought houses at the height of the real estate bubble prior to the '08 crash. A lot of them lost everything. I don't know anything about the housing market where you live but I would make sure I wasn't buying in at the top of a bubble. Housing is a lagging indicator and so the current crisis may not have impacted home prices yet. With rates at all time lows its a great time to finance a purchase, that's for sure. But I'm personally very weary of investing in any market marked by rising prices. I like to buy after the crash not just before it. I always buy stocks on the dips for instance and therefore always maximize my gains and don't have to worry about market corrections. If I were you I would very thoughtfully consider the state of the market before moving forward.


I'm the same way. I'm a little surprised it hasn't affected prices yet, but the government handouts I think have helped so far in keeping that from happening. I just want to wait until this mess is over or at least we know it's on the way out before I buy. I do think though that there will be a lot of migration to my area from places like NYC, and that will make prices go up due to more competition. Plus inventory has been low for a while now which was already driving competition.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

shyguy07 said:


> I just want to wait until this mess is over or at least we know it's on the way out before I buy.


Smart choice - its always risky to invest in anything when there is too much uncertainty. Wait until the dust settles and you can see over the horizon to decide what to do.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Might try to get a HSA for next year.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm going to give this Yotta app a couple more weeks then I might ditch it if I'm not getting 2%+.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Just went with 70 stocks 20 international 10 bonds all index funds, I'll just hold for next 30+ years meh.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Its scary to see how the older you are the harder it is for your money to grow aka compound interest. The younger the more growth. I'm definitely fully investing by 32 and hopefully have my Roth and 401(k) already set up nicely by 31, maybe invest 3-4% and 15%+ by 32.


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## Fun Spirit (Mar 5, 2014)

I will have a lot of money one day. 
*Manifesting* 

Sent from SPIRITO using Tapatalk


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Just went with 70 stocks 20 international 10 bonds all index funds, I'll just hold for next 30+ years meh.


Did you go with stock index funds or individual stocks? Stock index funds would be the way I would go. Unless you have a whole lot of money to buy a diversifed portfolio of individual stocks


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## green9206 (May 13, 2013)

I invest a little bit every month of whatever little I make. I find stock markets very interesting so I have stocks as well as index fund. Doing well so far. I feel Ike I'm better at managing money and finances than most people i meet in life although I don't have much money.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Did you go with stock index funds or individual stocks? Stock index funds would be the way I would go. Unless you have a whole lot of money to buy a diversifed portfolio of individual stocks


I changed my mind quick lol. I'd rather get 10%+ returns then 7-8% returns. I picked some good growth stock mutual funds that have outperformed the market the last 10 yrs. Index funds are average. I want above average.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> I changed my mind quick lol. I'd rather get 10%+ returns then 7-8% returns. I picked some good growth stock mutual funds that have outperformed the market the last 10 yrs. Index funds are average. I want above average.


You are paying increased fees with growth stock mutual funds. So there performance may be better then index funds but the increased fees cancel a lot of that out.

I have both of them myself. Its a big debate in the investment community which is better. Index or actively managed funds. Actively managed funds management can change as well. Even if you pick one with a great manager if they step down it may not be a good fund anymore.

I slightly perfer index funds but its a close call


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> You are paying increased fees with growth stock mutual funds. So there performance may be better then index funds but the increased fees cancel a lot of that out.
> 
> I have both of them myself. Its a big debate in the investment community which is better. Index or actively managed funds. Actively managed funds management can change as well. Even if you pick one with a great manager if they step down it may not be a good fund anymore.
> 
> I slightly perfer index funds but its a close call


Great manager? Even with a higher expense ratio you still get better returns than anything else. I look for funds that have been doing well for a long time, long track record. Constantly outperformed the S&P


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Great manager? Even with a higher expense ratio you still get better returns than anything else. I look for funds that have been doing well for a long time, long track record. Constantly outperformed the S&P


A small increase in fees and expenses makes a huge difference.

"The difference between an expense ratio of 0.15% and 1.5% might not seem like much, but the effect of the compounding over an investing lifetime is enormous. After 30 years, a fund with a 1.5% expense ratio will provide an investor with several hundred thousand dollars less for retirement than a 0.15% index fund with the same growth. And remember that most managed funds actually underperform index funds. Costs matter, and investors need returns compounding for their own benefit, not the benefit of fund companies who skim unnecessary fees off the top. "

Jack Bogle
Vanguard Group who pioneered the idea of low-cost investing and index funds

I personally invest in both but hate paying the extra fees and expenses of active funds. I think having both gives you a bit more ways to Diversify with different investment styles as well.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> A small increase in fees and expenses makes a huge difference.
> 
> "The difference between an expense ratio of 0.15% and 1.5% might not seem like much, but the effect of the compounding over an investing lifetime is enormous. After 30 years, a fund with a 1.5% expense ratio will provide an investor with several hundred thousand dollars less for retirement than a 0.15% index fund with the same growth. And remember that most managed funds actually underperform index funds. Costs matter, and investors need returns compounding for their own benefit, not the benefit of fund companies who skim unnecessary fees off the top. "
> 
> ...


To each their own but I'm with Dave Ramsey on this.....even after expense ratio factor returns should still be at least 9-10% instead of the typical 7-8%. You still come out ahead. But everyone is different .


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> To each their own but I'm with Dave Ramsey on this.....even after expense ratio factor returns should still be at least 9-10% instead of the typical 7-8%. You still come out ahead. But everyone is different .


I love Dave Ramsey and follow his baby steps. He is very good on getting out of debt and saving money but some of his advice on investments I disagree with. Like him reccommending actively managed funds instead of index funds.

Either way you will come out ahead of 90 percent of the people who have nothing saved at all and live paycheck to paycheck. So your doing great


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Stock market is killing me....


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## green9206 (May 13, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> Stock market is killing me....


What happened


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

green9206 said:


> What happened


Just how bad its been this week, lost so much. I know it'll rebound but still eek.


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## green9206 (May 13, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> Just how bad its been this week, lost so much. I know it'll rebound but still eek.


Its alright. We're only halfway there so more pain in November i feel. But new all time highs next year.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I will try to get an HSA should be a good investment/insurance.


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## Serbianw0lf (Apr 28, 2018)

Kevin001 said:


> Stock market is killing me....


It's ok just wait when the election is over, the stock market is gonna be all in your favor, you hang in there body.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Serbianw0lf said:


> It's ok just wait when the election is over, the stock market is gonna be all in your favor, you hang in there body.


Lol 2021 will be a good year.......I think.


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## green9206 (May 13, 2013)

Biden or Trump doesn't matter, market will go up because if election results were supposed to be important for the markets then they would have started their move atleast a couple of months prior. November could be volatile but the general direction is up.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Think I'll go 401k to the match, then roth ira, then HSA.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Stock market is killing me....


Well the market has been going up a whole lot this week so hopefully that brought you back to life! lol


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Well the market has been going up a whole lot this week so hopefully that brought you back to life! lol


After today should be all the way back from a week ago .


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Up to match with 401K then......max out HSA or contribute to Roth? Triple tax advantage with HSA but Roth can be used for anything. Decisions decisions


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I was right lol, market recovered got my money back.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Don't think I'll be investing with an HSA next year but still want good options.


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## green9206 (May 13, 2013)

I was so wrong. I thought markets would correct in November but damn. What a rocket! Thankfully I was already 100% invested by September except for monthly contributions that I do.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Might switch back to index funds idk.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Refinancing my loans would save me $50 at best I see no reason to though because I plan to be debt free next year.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Trying to be debt free & having 20 or 30k savings is the way to go, that's what I did anyway : /

The only exception I'd make is buying a home.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

blue2 said:


> Trying to be debt free & having 20 or 30k savings is the way to go, that's what I did anyway : /
> 
> The only exception I'd make is buying a home.


Whats your net worth now?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Just imagine if you are able to invest 66% of your income for 8yrs you could retire early and never work again.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Thinking about buying a new car. Has anyone tried to sell their car to an individual rather then trading it in to the dealer?
I know in theory you can get a higher blue book value with private sale then trade in. But Ive heard that is hard to do in practice. Individuals who wan to buy your car want a good deal as well so you wont get much more then trade in value that a dealer would give you. So its just a lot less headache and more convienent to just trade it in instead.

Ive also heard on a private sale you have to be careful about someone trying to steal your car by giving you a fake cashiers check.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> Thinking about buying a new car. Has anyone tried to sell their car to an individual rather then trading it in to the dealer?
> I know in theory you can get a higher blue book value with private sale then trade in. But Ive heard that is hard to do in practice. Individuals who wan to buy your car want a good deal as well so you wont get much more then trade in value that a dealer would give you. So its just a lot less headache and more convienent to just trade it in instead.
> 
> Ive also heard on a private sale you have to be careful about someone trying to steal your car by giving you a fake cashiers check.


I've done both. Cash is best if it's just worth a few grand or less. My trade in at the dealership last year I got screwed on, but my previous truck was a lemon and I just wanted something else that had a warranty. I wouldn't finance anything that's not still under warranty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Figuring out the tax code is priceless.


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## Cletis (Oct 10, 2011)

Dow hit 30,000 for the first time ever today.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Happy Thanksgiving. So is everyone thankful for their current finance situation? Or anyone in real trouble with money right now?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

^^ I'm ok but still drowning in debt. Could be worse.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Still waiting on Yotta do give me a nice break, averaging 1.25-1.5% right now.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Love hearing stories of normal job people becoming millionaires.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Love hearing stories of normal job people becoming millionaires.


I do as well. Hearing it makes me feel it is possible for myself as well.

You should read Everday Millionaire by one of Dave Ramsey personalities Chris Hogan. Its all about that subject.

https://www.daveramsey.com/store/pr...prd-&msclkid=33667acdf7db16c2b8052508259658cb


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> I do as well. Hearing it makes me feel it is possible for myself as well.
> 
> You should read Everday Millionaire by one of Dave Ramsey personalities Chris Hogan. Its all about that subject.
> 
> https://www.daveramsey.com/store/pr...prd-&msclkid=33667acdf7db16c2b8052508259658cb


Yeah good book


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

My rule on choosing stocks:
~ 20yr+ track record
~ Outperforms benchmark/S&P
~ Growth stocks


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> My rule on choosing stocks:
> ~ 20yr+ track record
> ~ Outperforms benchmark/S&P
> ~ Growth stocks


Good general rules. Dave Ramsey does not recommend individual stocks if we are being technical about it though. I have invested in single stocks in the past. Some good and some bad. To much risk. Stick with mutual funds or Etf's in my humble opinion


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> Happy Thanksgiving. So is everyone thankful for their current finance situation? Or anyone in real trouble with money right now?


I'm thankful. My job I started this year was a life changing pay increase for me. In 2017 I was still making minimum wage, so definitely thankful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Good general rules. Dave Ramsey does not recommend individual stocks if we are being technical about it though. I have invested in single stocks in the past. Some good and some bad. To much risk. Stick with mutual funds or Etf's in my humble opinion


What individual stocks did I mention? I'm talking about mutual funds lol.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> What individual stocks did I mention? I'm talking about mutual funds lol.


Oh ok I misunderstood your post. You said growth stocks. I thought you meant growth stocks of individual companies not growth stock mutual funds. My bad.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Oh ok I misunderstood your post. You said growth stocks. I thought you meant growth stocks of individual companies not growth stock mutual funds. My bad.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Anyone get any amazing black Friday or Cyber monday shopping deals? 

Frontier airlines had a 99 percent off sale on Monday. Almost bought a airline ticket to Puerto Rico for $50 roundtrip. Problem is you had to fly by 2/12/21 and who knows what the Covid situation would be by then and if any tourist things would be open. So I passed on it


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

chrisinmd said:


> Anyone get any amazing black Friday or Cyber monday shopping deals?
> 
> Frontier airlines had a 99 percent off sale on Monday. Almost bought a airline ticket to Puerto Rico for $50 roundtrip. Problem is you had to fly by 2/12/21 and who knows what the Covid situation would be by then and if any tourist things would be open. So I passed on it


50 bucks roundtrip - that's an amazing deal.

I just got a couple of pairs of new pants and some shirts. I'm really not interested in clothes anymore and have worn what I have to death the last few years. Just got a few replacements.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

@Kevin001 have you checked out a site called Prolific? You get paid for doing surveys. I did a few here and there last month when I was eating breakfast and made about $25. They send your payment to your PayPal account. They have a survey up now that pays $14.75 and takes an hour.

Also the Coinbase app has a thing going where you can earn cryptocurrency by watching videos and answering questions. There's three easy ones up right now you can make $25 in crypto in less than 10 minutes. You can sell them for the $25 immediately and put it straight into your bank if you wanted to. I'd hang on to it myself or swap it for bitcoin because crypto is going up a lot lately.

Anyway, thought I'd share it since I know you're looking for ways to make some extra cash on the side. They're both pretty easy and can be done on your phone in your spare time and I can confirm they're legit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> @Kevin001 have you checked out a site called Prolific? You get paid for doing surveys. I did a few here and there last month when I was eating breakfast and made about $25. They send your payment to your PayPal account. They have a survey up now that pays $14.75 and takes an hour.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good money making ideas. I do www.erewards.com to earn money doing surveys. They pay you in giftcards. Just got a $25 Target gift card. Good way to earn a few bucks while setting on the couch at home.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> Good money making ideas. I do www.erewards.com to earn money doing surveys. They pay you in giftcards. Just got a $25 Target gift card. Good way to earn a few bucks while setting on the couch at home.


I'll check that out. It's not always great per hour pay, but I figure if I'm just sitting around browsing useless stuff online anyway might as well make a few bucks here and there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> @Kevin001 have you checked out a site called Prolific? You get paid for doing surveys. I did a few here and there last month when I was eating breakfast and made about $25. They send your payment to your PayPal account. They have a survey up now that pays $14.75 and takes an hour.
> 
> Also the Coinbase app has a thing going where you can earn cryptocurrency by watching videos and answering questions. There's three easy ones up right now you can make $25 in crypto in less than 10 minutes. You can sell them for the $25 immediately and put it straight into your bank if you wanted to. I'd hang on to it myself or swap it for bitcoin because crypto is going up a lot lately.
> 
> ...


Thanks bro I'll check it out.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> I'll check that out. It's not always great per hour pay, but I figure if I'm just sitting around browsing useless stuff online anyway might as well make a few bucks here and there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea thats the way I figure. Its not great pay per hour but more productive then just watching youtube videos or internet porn! lol I can multitask and open more then one window and do both at the same time!


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Kevin001 said:


> ^^ I'm ok but still drowning in debt. Could be worse.


Image how much more money you'd have if you stop giving it to the church.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> Whats your net worth now?


Around €40k.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

nubly said:


> Image how much more money you'd have if you stop giving it to the church.


No point in having money if you can't give . Giving is essential just like spending and saving. All 3 need to be balanced.



blue2 said:


> Around €40k.


Oh ok not bad


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Got a question for everyone. What percentage of your budget go you spend on food for the month? Both groceries and eating out combined. What do you think is a good approx. percentage of your budget to spend on food? 10 percent, 20, 30 percent or some other number?


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

On food 12 %


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

blue2 said:


> On food 12 %


How did you come up with that number? Just your personal preference and how much you budget for food or is there some guideline that says around 12 percent is a good idea?


----------



## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

If you buy everything you eat at Walmart or something you could spend $400 to $600 a month. It's up to you if you want to eat out or get delivery and pay 50% more for every bite you eat or drink that month well pushing your expense past the $1000 mark.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Got a question for everyone. What percentage of your budget go you spend on food for the month? Both groceries and eating out combined. What do you think is a good approx. percentage of your budget to spend on food? 10 percent, 20, 30 percent or some other number?


9-10%


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

zork20001 said:


> If you buy everything you eat at Walmart or something you could spend $400 to $600 a month. It's up to you if you want to eat out or get delivery and pay 50% more for every bite you eat or drink that month well pushing your expense past the $1000 mark.


I delivery fees that people are paying for things like door dash and uber eats are crazy and stupid in my opinion. How does it make sense to order delivery from McDonalds or Taco Bell and add all that extra cost on to a fast food meal? Its like increasing the price of your Big Mac by 50 percent. Not smart but I was in Mcdonalds the other day and there was a line of uber eats drivers picking up food for delivery


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> On food 12 %


No just a rough estimate of what I spent of my income on food during the summer, I'm not very extravegant in my purchases though, it's mostly functional food & don't eat out much.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Kevin001 said:


> Oh sweet!
> 
> Really sucks that the feds have lowered saving rates at banks. My high yield savings is only at .6% now. On another not pretty sweet that I don't have to worry about student loan repayments till December.


With rates having fallen as much as they have, I should look into investing more in the market.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

srschirm said:


> With rates having fallen as much as they have, I should look into investing more in the market.


Yeah


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> @Kevin001 have you checked out a site called Prolific? You get paid for doing surveys. I did a few here and there last month when I was eating breakfast and made about $25. They send your payment to your PayPal account. They have a survey up now that pays $14.75 and takes an hour.
> 
> Also the Coinbase app has a thing going where you can earn cryptocurrency by watching videos and answering questions. There's three easy ones up right now you can make $25 in crypto in less than 10 minutes. You can sell them for the $25 immediately and put it straight into your bank if you wanted to. I'd hang on to it myself or swap it for bitcoin because crypto is going up a lot lately.
> 
> ...


The site looks legit but now I'm worried about what about taxes? Do you have to file as self employment?


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> The site looks legit but now I'm worried about what about taxes? Do you have to file as self employment?


I hadn't thought about it. Just did a Google search and came up with some reddit threads that said file as self employment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> I hadn't thought about it. Just did a Google search and came up with some reddit threads that said file as self employment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok lol knowing about taxes is the key to winning with money.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

This is one of the best videos I have seen for finance, I watched it 3 times it can changes the way you view everything; like running your own business, i still need to look into his number 7 about creating an S cooperation for my contracting job for tax write-offs. I am already doing the HSA stuff he talks about.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Student loan repayment/interest might be extended until April! It'd be nice to not have to worry about that and just pile cash.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Haven't cracked over $2 weekly with Yotta bank in a few weeks. I know more people are on it but geez. I got like 500 tickets.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

401K is doing well, no complaints.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Paid an extra $500 on student loan interest to finish out the year. Needed to reach that $2500 taxable student loan interest limit to reduce it from my taxes in a couple of months .


----------



## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Not sure how much I'll drop on my student loans anywhere from 10-13k I guess. I'll give Biden a little time and see if he can eliminate some.


----------



## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Not sure how much I'll drop on my student loans anywhere from 10-13k I guess. I'll give Biden a little time and see if he can eliminate some.


I would say the chances of getting a student loan relief is very slim. Republicans will never let it get through the Senate.


----------



## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> I would say the chances of getting a student loan relief is very slim. Republicans will never let it get through the Senate.


I agree but I'll give Biden a couple of months to work. No harm in waiting a little just in case .


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

When I move out I think I'll go the roommate route as long as possible, saves so much. Till marriage would be sweet.


----------



## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> When I move out I think I'll go the roommate route as long as possible, saves so much. Till marriage would be sweet.


It can work out and save money if you pick the right place and roommate. Just got to pick a roommate that dosent drive you crazy, make to much noise, dosent clean, dosent pay bills etc.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> It can work out and save money if you pick the right place and roommate. Just got to pick a roommate that dosent drive you crazy, make to much noise, dosent clean, dosent pay bills etc.


As long as they pay the bills (their share) I'm good.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

I'm thinking about buying a house next year but not sure. Kind of uncertain because if this stupid virus mess gets over with I think there could be more houses on the market, so more to choose from and lower prices, but then there will be more buyers probably as well. And interest rates are really low right now, and if they go up and prices don't go down a lot then I'm kind of stuck.

But I'd rather buy a less expensive house at a high interest rate and refinance later at a lower rate than buy a more expensive house at a low rate. Because you can always refinance but if you buy at a higher price you're always stuck with that debt.

What brought all this on is I saw a really nice foreclosed house for $100k. Corner lot, no neighbors 2 car garage. Just needed a new roof and flooring. It would be a slam dunk for me to buy. But, I have no financing lined up.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Gotta wait till I reach 1k but investing with the HSA is nice.


----------



## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

My brother is doing some day trading. He makes nice little amounts of cash too. He made 900usd last week and a few days earlier made 300usd. It varies and he loses some too sometimes(lost 600usd one time) but so far he wins more than he loses. His gains are regular. Id say he makes 200+500 extra in his pockets each weeks for an hour or so per day on his break at work lol. Its very risky but there's a lot of youtube channels giving a lot of help

He follows a guy on youtube that makes 12 to 16k+ each week doing day trading. The most he made was 50k in one week.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

shyguy07 said:


> I'm thinking about buying a house next year but not sure. Kind of uncertain because if this stupid virus mess gets over with I think there could be more houses on the market, so more to choose from and lower prices, but then there will be more buyers probably as well. And interest rates are really low right now, and if they go up and prices don't go down a lot then I'm kind of stuck.
> 
> But I'd rather buy a less expensive house at a high interest rate and refinance later at a lower rate than buy a more expensive house at a low rate. Because you can always refinance but if you buy at a higher price you're always stuck with that debt.
> 
> What brought all this on is I saw a really nice foreclosed house for $100k. Corner lot, no neighbors 2 car garage. Just needed a new roof and flooring. It would be a slam dunk for me to buy. But, I have no financing lined up.


Next year could be good year to buy a house but it depends on the local area you live in. In some places prices going up and others going down. I just read an article that prices are dropping in most cities. People dont want to live in crowded cities with this virus. Plus companies realize they can have people work from home so they dont need big headquarters in cities anymore. Its caused prices is suburbs to go up but cities to go down


----------



## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> My brother is doing some day trading. He makes nice little amounts of cash too. He made 900usd last week and a few days earlier made 300usd. It varies and he loses some too sometimes(lost 600usd one time) but so far he wins more than he loses. His gains are regular. Id say he makes 200+500 extra in his pockets each weeks for an hour or so per day on his break at work lol. Its very risky but there's a lot of youtube channels giving a lot of help
> 
> He follows a guy on youtube that makes 12 to 16k+ each week doing day trading. The most he made was 50k in one week.


Glad he is doing well day trading. Very difficult to do this long term and make money. The stats are about 90 percent of day traders lose money over the long term. Hope your brother is in that 10 percent that dosent. But perhaps he should try a buy and hold strategy. Wont become a millionaire overnight doing this but its a whole lot less risky


----------



## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

chrisinmd said:


> Glad he is doing well day trading. Very difficult to do this long term and make money. The stats are about 90 percent of day traders lose money over the long term. Hope your brother is in that 10 percent that dosent. But perhaps he should try a buy and hold strategy. Wont become a millionaire overnight doing this but its a whole lot less risky


He has investments all over the place, mostly places that are "safe" long therm and pay dividend. Hes been investing for a bunch of years when he started working for johnson and johnson(he bought stocks from them, and they gave employee some stocks for working there) and then branched to others that he chose from recommendation and searching himself.

And my brother told me a lot of people lose money. Hes watching many youtube videos and hes getting there, i think. I hope too that it will be a lucrative venture for him. He deserves it and has been a hard worker all his life. He's on a good rhythm now of winning way more than he loses so i cross fingers that it stays that way.


----------



## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> He has investments all over the place, mostly places that are "safe" long therm and pay dividend. Hes been investing for a bunch of years when he started working for johnson and johnson(he bought stocks from them, and they gave employee some stocks for working there) and then branched to others that he chose from recommendation and searching himself.
> 
> And my brother told me a lot of people lose money. Hes watching many youtube videos and hes getting there, i think. I hope too that it will be a lucrative venture for him. He deserves it and has been a hard worker all his life. He's on a good rhythm now of winning way more than he loses so i cross fingers that it stays that way.


Good thing he has some safe investments as well. I thought you were saying he was day trading with his whole net worth. That would be crazy risky. But a small part of your portfolio to day trade with isnt to bad


----------



## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

So how did everyone do in reaching there financial goals for 2020? I hit all of mine I believe. Meant my savings goals.


----------



## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

I did good, this was my first year doing some real investing.

I put 53,000 into my brokerage it is sitting at 73,000
I put 12,000 into IRA at the beginning of the year it is almost 14,000
My 401k made over 24,000 in interest for the year.
And my HSA is 1,000 higher.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

zork20001 said:


> I did good, this was my first year doing some real investing.
> 
> I put 53,000 into my brokerage it is sitting at 73,000
> I put 12,000 into IRA at the beginning of the year it is almost 14,000
> ...


Wow congrats! I always wondered if having money lessened your anxiety or not. I know for me it does. I don't have nearly as much as you though lol.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

401k banged out 16% returns, not bad.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> So how did everyone do in reaching there financial goals for 2020? I hit all of mine I believe. Meant my savings goals.


I wanted to have more income coming in but it could be worse I guess. 2021 I want to get a roth ira and increase my income. Get out debt finally and have 6 month emergency fund .


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm only getting 1% returns on Yotta. Is there anyway to get 2% on my money with it still being liquid?


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> I'm only getting 1% returns on Yotta. Is there anyway to get 2% on my money with it still being liquid?


Have looked around local banks at their checking account options? My bank has one with 1.5% on up to $25,000 if you make ten transactions a month on your debit card plus one bill on auto pay from your account. There's another local bank with the same requirements except it's 2.01% on up to $10,000 in your account. The requirements are on a monthly basis and if you don't make the ten transactions plus one auto pay you just get the regular checking account interest rate for that month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> Have looked around local banks at their checking account options? My bank has one with 1.5% on up to $25,000 if you make ten transactions a month on your debit card plus one bill on auto pay from your account. There's another local bank with the same requirements except it's 2.01% on up to $10,000 in your account. The requirements are on a monthly basis and if you don't make the ten transactions plus one auto pay you just get the regular checking account interest rate for that month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Was getting 1.5% at local credit union at 5k max but now I think it dropped tp 1%.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Seems like I might have a €1700 tax rebate/refund ... I overpaid tax last year : /


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> I'm only getting 1% returns on Yotta. Is there anyway to get 2% on my money with it still being liquid?


Never heard of Yotta before. I checked out the website looks like you can win prizes. Ever won any and how much?

1 percent dosent seem much better then bank of america who I use.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Never heard of Yotta before. I checked out the website looks like you can win prizes. Ever won any and how much?
> 
> 1 percent dosent seem much better then bank of america who I use.


You "win" money every week its all about how much though.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Just hoping I break even with taxes.


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## staticradio725 (Oct 25, 2020)

Kevin001 said:


> Just hoping I break even with taxes.


Man, I would kill to break even. I'm technically self-employed, which means I usually owe money to the government after my taxes are done. Everybody talking about what they're going to do with their tax refund, and I'm just crunching the numbers hoping the amount I owe isn't too steep this year.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

I'd love to break even too. I've owed every year for years now and have a feeling this will be the worst one yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

staticradio725 said:


> Man, I would kill to break even. I'm technically self-employed, which means I usually owe money to the government after my taxes are done. Everybody talking about what they're going to do with their tax refund, and I'm just crunching the numbers hoping the amount I owe isn't too steep this year.





JH1983 said:


> I'd love to break even too. I've owed every year for years now and have a feeling this will be the worst one yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do 401k/IRA(s) or HSA(s) help yall? There are many deductions out there. I got 2500 deduction from my student loan interest alone.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Kevin001 said:


> Do 401k/IRA(s) or HSA(s) help yall? There are many deductions out there. I got 2500 deduction from my student loan interest alone.


I wasn't eligible for my company's 401k plan until the start of this year. Don't have an IRA yet and no HSA. No student loans either. Should be able to deduct my mortgage interest at least. Not sure what else yet.

I went up a tax bracket in 2020 for the first time and not sure what that's going to end up looking like come tax time. I guess paying my income tax could be a good use for the stimulus check. Regardless I'm going to a professional this year. Have used Turbo Tax in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> I wasn't eligible for my company's 401k plan until the start of this year. Don't have an IRA yet and no HSA. No student loans either. Should be able to deduct my mortgage interest at least. Not sure what else yet.
> 
> I went up a tax bracket in 2020 for the first time and not sure what that's going to end up looking like come tax time. I guess paying my income tax could be a good use for the stimulus check. Regardless I'm going to a professional this year. Have used Turbo Tax in the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well hope it isn't too much .


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Counted small change I'd been saving for a few years & I had €215.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

> I wasn't eligible for my company's 401k plan until the start of this year. Don't have an IRA yet and no HSA. No student loans either. Should be able to deduct my mortgage interest at least. Not sure what else yet.


No you will probably take standard deduction so mortgage interest will do nothing for you.

$401k and HSA can help a lot.

Your first 40,000 you only get that taxed at like 12% past that you get it taxed at 22% to 24%. That's a lot, lets say you made 75,000 for the year; 35,000 of that would be taxed at 22% which is $7,700 you would pay in taxes. Now lets say you put the full amount in your 401K which is $19,500 and the full amount in HSA $3,500 total of $23,000. If you kept that money and put it in your checking account you would have to pay $5,060 in taxes at 22%. Putting it into those accounts you can keep the entire $5,060 amount and invest it.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

zork20001 said:


> No you will probably take standard deduction so mortgage interest will do nothing for you.
> 
> $401k and HSA can help a lot.
> 
> Your first 40,000 you only get that taxed at like 12% past that you get it taxed at 22% to 24%. That's a lot, lets say you made 75,000 for the year; 35,000 of that would be taxed at 22% which is $7,700 you would pay in taxes. Now lets say you put the full amount in your 401K which is $19,500 and the full amount in HSA $3,500 total of $23,000. If you kept that money and put it in your checking account you would have to pay $5,060 in taxes at 22%. Putting it into those accounts you can keep the entire $5,060 amount and invest it.


Appreciate the breakdown. Pretty new to finance still. I didn't start my new job till around spring last year, so won't be so much over this time. Really need to get this stuff figured out.

Another question if you don't mind. So say in 2021 I'm looking at around $65-70k and my wife will be around $30k. Filing joint is the way to go since under $80k is taxed at 12%, so that allows more of my income to fit into that than filing solo, right? Then we can each contribute to our individual 401K's to max out our company matching policies and try to minimize or eliminate completely the taxable income that's in the 22% tax bracket?

Again I very much appreciate the insight. If your username is from the old computer game I had a Tandy computer back in the late 80's and early 90's and played Zork where you just typed commands on DOS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Ya you can just double the numbers filing jointly. I also forgot to mention the standard deduction in my example. Single it is $12,400 jointly it is 24,800. So your example of $100,000 jointly as soon as you put in standard deduction Bam! your taxable income is $75,200 so you are only going to be taxed at 12% not having invested anything. 

The name of the game is trying to not get taxed at 22% because F**K that S**T. I am jealous of married couples. It is so much easier to achieve that and keep your money. 


Ya Return to Zork was the first computer game I played on my dads Dell 486. It blew me away and used it as my Aol name. I still just use it for accounts and stuff.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

JH1983 said:


> My bank has one with 1.5% on up to $25,000 if you make ten transactions a month on your debit card plus one bill on auto pay from your account. There's another local bank with the same requirements except it's 2.01% on up to $10,000 in your account. The requirements are on a monthly basis and if you don't make the ten transactions plus one auto pay you just get the regular checking account interest rate for that month.


My credit union has a similar deal, but 2.01% interest on the first $15,000 in my checking account, minimum 12 transactions on their VISA debit card.

Since I buy very little, particularly during COVID, it's becoming a bit of a pain to contrive 12 transactions though. I've been getting a gallon of gas at a time this month.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

At least someone won a Tesla, hopefully I can get some decent wins soon.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

So one month complete into the new year. Everyone still on track for their financial goals for the new year?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Looks like I'll break even for taxes phew, might even getting a little back. Get me a burger or something I guess.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Thinking about opening a Roth IRA at Vanguard but most funds are 3k. Should I just get one and once it grows enough buy another fund? I want 4 funds overall but will be awhile before I have 12k.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Thinking about opening a Roth IRA at Vanguard but most funds are 3k. Should I just get one and once it grows enough buy another fund? I want 4 funds overall but will be awhile before I have 12k.


I use Charles Schwab. There funds dont have those high min amount amount of money that Vanguard does. Im happy with Schwab. Very low fees. Check them out.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> I use Charles Schwab. There funds dont have those high min amount amount of money that Vanguard does. Im happy with Schwab. Very low fees. Check them out.


Always been a fan of Vanguard lol plus everyone has them #1 for investments. I might check it out.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Anybody have any experience drawing interest on cryptocurrency?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

^^ Nope don't mess with the stuff :stu

Expecting $99 back from taxes .


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

JH1983 said:


> Anybody have any experience drawing interest on cryptocurrency?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Update on this. Ended up swapping a small amount for a stablecoin (always $1 each, no volatility) and moving it to The Celsius Network. They offer 12.5% yearly interest on stablecoins and it's paid out weekly. Got my first interest payment yesterday, so I'm happy so far. Not ready to deposit a large amount just yet, but will see how it goes for awhile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Finally got 4 balls with Yotta, at $10.75 this week with one more day to go .


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Would be nice to find something online for an extra $100 a week.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Hmm if they do give us the $1400 I'll spend it this way......
~$70 battery booster for car
~$70 work pants and shoes 
~$60 on regular clothes
~$1200 in emergency fund


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Not sure if I should open a roth now or wait till the fall.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Call me crazy but I'm thinking about going 100% in on FBGRX.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Call me crazy but I'm thinking about going 100% in on FBGRX.


What makes you want to go 100 percent in on that fund? May be a great fund but you dont want to go 100% in on anything. Diversification is your friend!


----------



## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Does anyone have anything they like collecting that they make good money on? A hobby that you enjoy and can make money off of is the best of both worlds.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> What makes you want to go 100 percent in on that fund? May be a great fund but you dont want to go 100% in on anything. Diversification is your friend!


Yeah lol changed my mind I'm just going to go 75/25 on Total stock market index and international index.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Finally open a Roth with fidelity, investing in FZROX. Really need to find more work to up my income.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I see Yotta change up its prizes hmm. Might take my money out soon if don't see much success in the near future.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

What is everyone worst vice that costs them the most financially? Drinking, gambling, fast food / eating out, drugs, etc?


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> What is everyone worst vice that costs them the most financially? Drinking, gambling, fast food / eating out, drugs, etc?


I don't have any vices like that anymore really. What costs me the most financially that's not a necessity (beyond having one anyway) is having several vehicles. Although they could be sold if I ever really needed the money. Ironically I drive a 25 year old beater that's worth maybe $800 about 95% of the time while all the nice stuff sits at home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> I don't have any vices like that anymore really. What costs me the most financially that's not a necessity (beyond having one anyway) is having several vehicles. Although they could be sold if I ever really needed the money. Ironically I drive a 25 year old beater that's worth maybe $800 about 95% of the time while all the nice stuff sits at home.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh ok your a car guy who likes to collect cars. Good hobby. Are the cars you have going down in value as they age or are they investment cars that will go up in value the longer you keep them? If they are going down in value I would get rid of them and get the money. If they are going down in value your wasting money keeping them for something you are not even driving


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> Oh ok your a car guy who likes to collect cars. Good hobby. Are the cars you have going down in value as they age or are they investment cars that will go up in value the longer you keep them? If they are going down in value I would get rid of them and get the money. If they are going down in value your wasting money keeping them for something you are not even driving


One will go up, the others will hold their value more than most. Everything gets driven occasionally, just don't want to rack up miles daily driving. That's what the beater is for. It's actually pretty handy having multiple options though. If one won't start one day before work just hop in something else and deal with it later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Not sure if I should just save for medical cost or use HSA. Still go back and forth with investing HSA or not.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Not sure if I should keep $500 or $1000 in cash. Probably the 1k.


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## brendamage (Apr 12, 2021)

I'd love to earn back the original investment as well. I've owed each year throughout recent years and have an inclination this will be the most exceedingly terrible one yet.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Its been over 3wks now since my 401k contributions have been updated, not sure who's at fault here.


----------



## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Finally reaching 10K net worth soon! Just the beginning .


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

Kevin001 said:


> Not sure if I should keep $500 or $1000 in cash. Probably the 1k.





Kevin001 said:


> Finally reaching 10K net worth soon! Just the beginning .


Congrats Kevin - and good luck in striving for your future goals.

If you've got no loans then 3-6 months living expenses is a good cash pot (I wouldn't be surprised if you've come across Dave Ramsay at some point - who's advice I find... okay). Personally, I'd only be okay settling for $1k cash if the rest of my money was going in _extremely conservative_ investments (which isn't the case). But you're way ahead of the average person either way.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

macky said:


> Congrats Kevin - and good luck in striving for your future goals.
> 
> If you've got no loans then 3-6 months living expenses is a good cash pot (I wouldn't be surprised if you've come across Dave Ramsay at some point - who's advice I find... okay). Personally, I'd only be okay settling for $1k cash if the rest of my money was going in _extremely conservative_ investments (which isn't the case). But you're way ahead of the average person either way.


Yeah Ramsey is cool, he was the first financial guy I learn from awhile ago. No my emergency fund is in high yield online account. Just talking about having cash at home for sudden emergencies. I got different levels. Cash is 1st step for something urgent, local bank is 2nd has 1 month expenses in it, then 3rd it would take 2-3 days to pull emergency fund online. So the cash and local bank are my buffers till I can pull the EF money. Then my Roth IRA is the break the glass emergency.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

Kevin001 said:


> Yeah Ramsey is cool, he was the first financial guy I learn from awhile ago. No my emergency fund is in high yield online account. Just talking about having cash at home for sudden emergencies. I got different levels. Cash is 1st step for something urgent, local bank is 2nd has 1 month expenses in it, then 3rd it would take 2-3 days to pull emergency fund online. So the cash and local bank are my buffers till I can pull the EF money. Then my Roth IRA is the break the glass emergency.


Ah cool - so the $500-$1000 is level one. Hmmm... well it's a good level for an immediate emergency. Aside from the obvious security aspect, there's certainly no harm in having it at home - its main use would be if something happened in the weekend when the bank was closed (and indeed a major emergency, as someone would have to be very strict in order to not give you a chance to go to the bank).


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

macky said:


> Ah cool - so the $500-$1000 is level one. Hmmm... well it's a good level for an immediate emergency. Aside from the obvious security aspect, there's certainly no harm in having it at home - its main use would be if something happened in the weekend when the bank was closed (and indeed a major emergency, as someone would have to be very strict in order to not give you a chance to go to the bank).


Yeah you just never know, blackout, etc. 1k cash and around 2k in local bank should be good enough to cover me for 2-3 days. Can't see where I would need more than that in the matter of 48hrs.


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## Snake Plant (Jan 4, 2021)

Finance thread? Cool. You'd think (so many socially anxious people, maybe not best employment history) there'd be more into personal finance here. I started a bit less than a decade ago at 29. I can buy a starter flat now (haven't yet), got some savings, got some crypto, a few other assets.. Had nothing to start with. So there's hope. 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' - Robert Kiyosaki. Must read. Cashflow, that's the key. Start with cutting expenses. Walk instead of taxi's, switch to cheap brands or bulk buy etc. Or intermittent fast and lose bodyfat at the same time. Great audiobook: 'The Richest Man in Babylon' It's on YT and other places. I've listened to that book so many times.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Bumped: Reward in ownership 

Checkout this website. I've made a little bit of money on it just for shopping like you normally would. Free money you dont have to do anything for.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

We started renting out my wife's house last month. It had been just sitting since I bought the place we live now last summer. Were kind of on the fence about whether to rent or sell. I still think housing prices will continue to go up, so for now renting it seems like the better choice. 

Also refinanced my truck this week from 6.04% to 2.79%. Will save me around $2500 or so over the rest of the loan. Crazy my auto loan now has lower interest than my mortgage, which is at 3%.

And now to the bad news. 

Crypto portfolio down quite a bit at the moment. Still feeling good long term though and actually still way up from my initial investment. 

Might end up losing the opportunity to make an additional $200-300 a week at work. It's been over six months since the guy quit that a few of us take turns doing his work. They're talking about hiring another part time person to cover it again. I'm hoping they don't obviously, it's been nice having the extra cash.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Making an extra $500 a month is my end of the year goal now.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

I just put 5 grand into bitcoin at 34,000. Was doing crypto a few years ago and got out after the crash but I still had my coinbase pro account. When I saw it drop I told myself when it hit under 35,000 I would buy in for my diversification with crypto investments. I don't know I could be wrong but I don't see bitcoin going much lower than 30,000 at least not for long so it should end up paying off for me.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

zork20001 said:


> I just put 5 grand into bitcoin at 34,000. Was doing crypto a few years ago and got out after the crash but I still had my coinbase pro account. When I saw it drop I told myself when it hit under 35,000 I would buy in for my diversification with crypto investments. I don't know I could be wrong but I don't see bitcoin going much lower than 30,000 at least not for long so it should end up paying off for me.


Even if it does get below 30k in the short term it's still going back up long term. It's proven this time and time again. Next halving is in 2024. I still think we'll have another leg up beyond the current ATH before the year is over.

I sold some of my Bitcoin at $58,500, but I'm still holding most of mine that I bought a few years ago. I started DCA'ing back into ETH during this crash, too. I sold all that I had before at $1800 unfortunately. But I'm keeping what I have and accumulating more even if this turns into a bear market until the next halving in 2024.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

JH1983 said:


> Even if it does get below 30k in the short term it's still going back up long term. It's proven this time and time again. Next halving is in 2024. I still think we'll have another leg up beyond the current ATH before the year is over.
> 
> I sold some of my Bitcoin at $58,500, but I'm still holding most of mine that I bought a few years ago. I started DCA'ing back into ETH during this crash, too. I sold all that I had before at $1800 unfortunately. But I'm keeping what I have and accumulating more even if this turns into a bear market until the next halving in 2024.


Hopefully it won't be that long this time. It went straight down in like 3 days, it could go back up just as fast.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Think I'll just keep $500 in cash reserves instead of 1K, can't see myself needing more than $500 at any one time meh.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Can't wait to hit coast fire at 40.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Think I'll just keep $500 in cash reserves instead of 1K, can't see myself needing more than $500 at any one time meh.


I could personally think of a lot of emergency's that could come up where $500 would not be enough. Car repair more then that, unexpected medical or vet bills. House repair. Have to miss work for some reason. Lots of things can go wrong.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> I could personally think of a lot of emergency's that could come up where $500 would not be enough. Car repair more then that, unexpected medical or vet bills. House repair. Have to miss work for some reason. Lots of things can go wrong.


No lol when I say cash I mean on hand no banks. Like money I would need if couldn't reach local bank or didn't have card. So $500 cash then 2k local bank and 10k emergency fund online bank.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> No lol when I say cash I mean on hand no banks. Like money I would need if couldn't reach local bank or didn't have card. So $500 cash then 2k local bank and 10k emergency fund online bank.


Got yea. That makes much more sense, Although I dont normally carry anywhere near that much cash around. Guess i would be screwed if the Banks were all closed and the ATM system went down!


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Got yea. That makes much more sense, Although I dont normally carry anywhere near that much cash around. Guess i would be screwed if the Banks were all closed and the ATM system went down!


Haha yeah. Just never know when you might be somewhere and their card readers are down etc.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Took advantage of some cash back offers and promotions recently. 

My Wells Fargo credit card sent me an email with a promotion where you got a one time 10% cash back on one purchase up to $400 at a grocery store and the same offer at a gas station. So spent $400 at Kroger the weekend before last. Surprisingly difficult actually, groceries came up to around $360 and got a $40 gift card for Kroger with the rest. The gas station I ended up going mostly Amazon gift cards that I'll use eventually anyway. So got $80 back on that $800 spent. 

The second one was two promos from The Celsius Network. One was to refer someone and them depositing a small amount of crypto to their new account. So I referred my wife and sent her some Bitcoin. We each got $40 in Bitcoin for that. The second was put $400 in any crypto and hold for six months to get $50 in Bitcoin. So with what I sent her for the first promo counted for hers and I then sent myself some that I already had elsewhere anyway. So that will be an additional $50 each for holding Bitcoin I was going to hold anyway. Plus 6% APY on all of it during that time. So $80 for us now and another $100 in six months. 

So feeling good about coming out $260 ahead on these deals, even with having to wait awhile on the last $100.

So I went to Rural King earlier today and using the card with the recent cash back rewards I bought three 5 gallon gas cans. Every night at work I drive to a neighboring state where gas is about $0.50 cheaper per gallon. Been planning on doing this for awhile anyway, with gas going up so much now is a good time. I figure we use something like 20-25 gallons a week. So could potentially save $40-50 a month on gas this way. 

Also a couple months ago one of my credit cards offered a $45 credit if you signed up for a Sam's Club membership (costs $45) with it. At the time Sam's was also giving a $45 gift card for new members. So I did that and also signed up for the Sam's Club credit card because it has 5% cash back at all gas stations up to $6000 a year. So that will be my new card for gas. Should easily end up with a couple hundred dollars a year in cash back at that rate. 

Found out last week they're letting us keep the extra work, so won't be losing out on that. Still been trying to save where I can. Also recently found out my Verizon plan includes Hulu, so was able to get that switched over where I'm not paying for it anymore.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

I switched last fall from AT&T which was $82 per month, to Mint, which costs $36, huge cost savings and I haven't had any issues with going over on data or anything. Also I got a new iPhone and didn't have to pay for it separately like most prepaid. So I think it's a great deal. My dad has Cricket which is $45 a month but I felt like Mint was worth a try and I've been happy with it.

Also I'm debating to pay my car off or wait. I owe $6000 on it which I can pay off but the payment is only $200 a month at a really low rate and I kind of like having the money in savings better. But if I move out I'd rather have it paid off so I have more left each month.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

I switched over to my cable provider Xfinity new plan a few years ago. I am pretty sure they use the Verizon backbone. I only pay $14 a month, they give free text and calls and charge you $14 for every gig of data you use. I have never used that much data I prefer to use a computer to do everything, as long as I don’t watch youtube videos on my phone/ at least when I am not connected to Wi-Fi I have never gone over like 600MB a month.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

shyguy07 said:


> Also I'm debating to pay my car off or wait. I owe $6000 on it which I can pay off but the payment is only $200 a month at a really low rate and I kind of like having the money in savings better. But if I move out I'd rather have it paid off so I have more left each month.


I was in the same situation as you with a car. I went ahead and paid it off. It will save you money on the interest and free up $200 a month to begin rebuilding your savings. As long as you are confident about not losing your job or income I would highly suggest paying it off. Worked well for me. Have not had a car payment in about 5 years now and it allowed to save up that money to put down on a new car when I am ready to purchase


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

shyguy07 said:


> I switched last fall from AT&T which was $82 per month, to Mint, which costs $36, huge cost savings and I haven't had any issues with going over on data or anything. Also I got a new iPhone and didn't have to pay for it separately like most prepaid. So I think it's a great deal. My dad has Cricket which is $45 a month but I felt like Mint was worth a try and I've been happy with it.
> 
> Also I'm debating to pay my car off or wait. I owe $6000 on it which I can pay off but the payment is only $200 a month at a really low rate and I kind of like having the money in savings better. But if I move out I'd rather have it paid off so I have more left each month.


Yeah I heard someone switched to mintmobile and only pays $15 a month.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Net worth should top 14k soon, still long ways to go but just a year ago I was in the negative.


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## evatra (Jun 20, 2021)

Maybe it is a mistake but I honestly don't carry much cash with me. Used to have some when I went on a local food market but even there now everyone has a card reader. The only thing I do, I have different credit cards for different types of expenses. This way I also secure myself in case one card is blocked or lost. I had the situation like that only once and bank of america customer service solved it actually super quickly.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Net worth should top 14k soon, still long ways to go but just a year ago I was in the negative.


Great job. Feels great not to be negative like a whole lot of people are dosen't it?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Great job. Feels great not to be negative like a whole lot of people are dosen't it?


For sure but long ways to go since started soooo late investing.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> For sure but long ways to go since started soooo late investing.


Better late then never. Got to start somewhere. How old are you? As long as your not within like 10 years of retirement you got plenty of time to invest


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Better late then never. Got to start somewhere. How old are you? As long as your not within like 10 years of retirement you got plenty of time to invest


30, just makes things harder and will never have as much as I could of lol. Would started a Roth at 18.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

Kevin001 said:


> 30, just makes things harder and will never have as much as I could of lol. Would started a Roth at 18.


It is frustrating to look at where we'd be now had we started investing/ saving earlier. I try to think of it as us being blessed to have started when we did (which for you is still a young age). To think there are people out there twice as old as you who are one paycheck, or one unexpected emergency away from having *zero* money. As it stands, for me any emergency for me now is quite an inconvenience (I'm trying to give myself enough of a cash cushion so as not to have to dip into my investments), but seldom enough to risk leaving me broke. Hopefully that's the same for you.


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## movingbee (Oct 12, 2017)

Have any of you heard about games where earnings can be converted to crypto? How about a toilet that can be converted also to crypto? Investments now really takes new forms. Back to my days, investments are just insurances and buying properties.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

movingbee said:


> Have any of you heard about games where earnings can be converted to crypto? How about a toilet that can be converted also to crypto? Investments now really takes new forms. Back to my days, investments are just insurances and buying properties.



I tried that mobile game Townstar where you can win crypto rewards. I quit right away though because it's something you'd have to play constantly and I just don't have the free time to devote to it.


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## PurplePeopleEater (May 10, 2017)

JH1983 said:


> I tried that mobile game Townstar where you can win crypto rewards. I quit right away though because it's something you'd have to play constantly and I just don't have the free time to devote to it.


Yea, there's always some kind of catch to stuff like that. Reason why I don't bother with apps offering free money. Plus, I don't trust that kind of stuff. 😬

A little bit of passive income would be great even if it's only like 20 to 30 dollars a month maximum but I can't trust stuff that offers you money to not really do anything. I think it's almost always too good to be true.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

PurplePeopleEater said:


> Yea, there's always some kind of catch to stuff like that. Reason why I don't bother with apps offering free money. Plus, I don't trust that kind of stuff. 😬
> 
> A little bit of passive income would be great even if it's only like 20 to 30 dollars a month maximum but I can't trust stuff that offers you money to not really do anything. I think it's almost always too good to be true.


I'm sure there's some opportunities like drop-shipping, affiliate marketing or some other things that offer such passive income. The main difficulty curve is gaining enough traffic to make it worthwhile. Things like real estate as well but again, I worry some people underestimate how much work this is.

Currently, among other things, I'm investing in stocks which raises another dilemma - balancing between my dividend-paying stocks, or invest in long-term high-growth potential stocks. Currently my portfolio has a larger dividend portion than I'd like - and so I'm getting paid more than I intended for and that's a _bad_ thing - and that's the fun of investing!


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

macky said:


> It is frustrating to look at where we'd be now had we started investing/ saving earlier. I try to think of it as us being blessed to have started when we did (which for you is still a young age). To think there are people out there twice as old as you who are one paycheck, or one unexpected emergency away from having *zero* money. As it stands, for me any emergency for me now is quite an inconvenience (I'm trying to give myself enough of a cash cushion so as not to have to dip into my investments), but seldom enough to risk leaving me broke. Hopefully that's the same for you.


Yeah having cash reserves is everything. I know tons of people who are investment rich but have no cash if something comes up. I'm trying to build up my cash now so only doing 401k match and hsa now.


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## FindingPeace (Oct 25, 2016)

Money is really tight for me right now. The rent went up, and my boyfriend was out of work for 2 weeks recovering from surgery with no sick time available . I have an emergency cash fund, but it's still really stressful right now.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

FindingPeace said:


> Money is really tight for me right now. The rent went up, and my boyfriend was out of work for 2 weeks recovering from surgery with no sick time available . I have an emergency cash fund, but it's still really stressful right now.


Sorry to hear money is tough now for you. I've been there before. 
How long till your boyfriend is well enough to get back to work? Can he do some other less physically demanding job right now. Like drive for Uber or do pizza delivery? How much longer will your emergency funds last?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Really want to frontload my Roth IRA next year but I would have to dip into emergency fund to do that. Too risky for me I'll just do DCA.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> Really want to frontload my Roth IRA next year but I would have to dip into emergency fund to do that. Too risky for me I'll just do DCA.


How much is your emergency fund that you want to maintain and how much do you want to frontload your IRA?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

frontload meaning max it out in january, EF 10k .


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> frontload meaning max it out in january, EF 10k .


I like the idea of dollar cost averaging it instead of all in one lump sum. If you do it in one lump sum on Jan. 1 for instance you may be buying at the market high. So better to split it up over months or buy when the market dips


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> I like the idea of dollar cost averaging it instead of all in one lump sum. If you do it in one lump sum on Jan. 1 for instance you may be buying at the market high. So better to split it up over months or buy when the market dips


lump sum is better 80% of the time I just can't risk having such a low EF, if something happens I would be up a creek.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> lump sum is better 80% of the time I just can't risk having such a low EF, if something happens I would be up a creek.


Yea if you do some every month instead of lump sum you wont completely deplete your emergency fund. Frontload your IRA as much as you can but not so much it puts you in a situation where you have trouble sleeping at night because your emergency fund is to low.


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## Roberto Gantavre (Aug 11, 2021)

I recently purchased a studio for sale london. For a cheap price. I think it's a great investment. If you ask me. Because my opinion is this. The best investment is real estate. And it will always be in plus income. What do you think about real estate?


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## Zeinner (Aug 28, 2021)

I have no money of my own, never held a job, never will the way things are.

My family is sort of middle-high class for the local standards so I never lacked for anything and I guess they realize my situation is not entirely my fault as I inherited a ton of my issues so I've been allowed to live on their money.

I have my own place, small, basic and simple but more than enough for what I need. When my parents pass I'll inherit my part of their possessions, they have no pensions but make money out of renting properties and such, and I live such a simple lifestyle that possibly I could last a decade or more but I also rather lack the experience to manage much of anything.

Oh well, I should consider myself lucky, I never had to get crunched and exploited like literally almost everyone else who had to break their backs every day just to survive. If I don't get to last much longer (I sure as hell not going homeless in freaking Colombia) then I guess that was a more than fair price to pay for such privilege.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Zeinner said:


> I have no money of my own, never held a job, never will the way things are.
> 
> My family is sort of middle-high class for the local standards so I never lacked for anything and I guess they realize my situation is not entirely my fault as I inherited a ton of my issues so I've been allowed to live on their money.
> 
> ...


Well your lucky in the sense you had your basic needs meant and didn't have to work some horrible job with a abusive boss just to survive. 

I don't know your situation but it sounds like you have given up. You can always improve your life in some way. So don't give up.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

zork20001 said:


> I just put 5 grand into bitcoin at 34,000. Was doing crypto a few years ago and got out after the crash but I still had my coinbase pro account. When I saw it drop I told myself when it hit under 35,000 I would buy in for my diversification with crypto investments. I don't know I could be wrong but I don't see bitcoin going much lower than 30,000 at least not for long so it should end up paying off for me.



You still holding? Back at $64k at the moment and looking good. I've been DCA'ing every month since the dip earlier this year. Ethereum too. The new Bitcoin ETF is big news right now and probably affecting the price.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

JH1983 said:


> You still holding? Back at $64k at the moment and looking good. I've been DCA'ing every month since the dip earlier this year. Ethereum too. The new Bitcoin ETF is big news right now and probably affecting the price.


ya I actually put another 10 grand in at 41,000. I would have put more in if I had the spare cash because I was so sure it was going to go up eventually. This is nothing shocking, the real question is when will it hit 100,000


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

zork20001 said:


> ya I actually put another 10 grand in at 41,000. I would have put more in if I had the spare cash because I was so sure it was going to go up eventually. This is nothing shocking, the real question is when will it hit 100,000



My prediction is $67k-72k before the end of this month and $100k early next year. I'm wondering about the longer term too though. Bitcoin market cap is already a little over 10% of what gold is. If it got to even half what gold is it would be 4-5x from here and I don't really think that's unrealistic long term. Part of me wants to just keep holding and accumulating for the next 5-10 years.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> I'm wondering about the longer term too though. Bitcoin market cap is already a little over 10% of what gold is. If it got to even half what gold is it would be 4-5x from here and I don't really think that's unrealistic long term.


 Yeah I don't think it's too unrealistic either. Seeing as there are 56m people with net worths over $1million, it could only take a certain bitcoin of bullish Bitcoin news for them to decide it's worth placing a small investment in Bitcoin. If they bought on average just one Bitcoin each, at price $60k per Bitcoin, that alone would automatically inject $3trillion into the Bitcoin market. No, not every millionaire would want BTC, but the ones who do will probably buy more than 1 anyway... and as 4-5x over the next decade is far from unrealistic.



JH1983 said:


> Part of me wants to just keep holding and accumulating for the next 5-10 years.


Indeed, many Bitcon holders advise this. My take is converting my altcoins into Bitcoin for the purposes of accumulating Bitcoin itself. If I convert any of it to cash it would be for investing in other assets. But if Bitcoin suddenly goes parabolic and is highly oversold, I may take profits more aggressively.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

macky said:


> Yeah I don't think it's too unrealistic either. Seeing as there are 56m people with net worths over $1million, it could only take a certain bitcoin of bullish Bitcoin news for them to decide it's worth placing a small investment in Bitcoin. If they bought on average just one Bitcoin each, at price $60k per Bitcoin, that alone would automatically inject $3trillion into the Bitcoin market. No, not every millionaire would want BTC, but the ones who do will probably buy more than 1 anyway... and as 4-5x over the next decade is far from unrealistic.
> 
> Indeed, many Bitcon holders advise this. My take is converting my altcoins into Bitcoin for the purposes of accumulating Bitcoin itself. If I convert any of it to cash it would be for investing in other assets. But if Bitcoin suddenly goes parabolic and is highly oversold, I may take profits more aggressively.



Bitcoin has some advantages over gold too. Much easier to store and send large amounts. With hardware wallets and seed phrases you can safely store literally billions in a small safety deposit box. Also send that same amount instantly to anyone for a small transaction fee. It's because of stuff like this I could see it reaching half the market cap of gold over the next 5-10 years. 

Buying and holding has been best for me. Most of my holdings I bought a few years ago. I tried trading a little late last year and early this year and mostly lost money. Made the mistake of doing some altcoin gambling with Bitcoin profits and that's backwards like you said. So from there on just been accumulating again Bitcoin and also Ethereum. I'm thinking with altcoins it's probably best to just throw a small amount you can stomach losing in new projects that look promising and hope for a many times return. 

I took some profits on Bitcoin earlier this year when it hit $58,500 the first time. At this point I've gotten back my initial investment and then some and also don't need the money for anything, so letting it ride to (hopefully) life changing amounts seems the way to go. Also holding through the ups and downs for the past few years has numbed me to it somewhat, so there's no panic selling or FOMO'ing in.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I think I'll save for a house downpayment in cash instead of using my Roth. Just don't want to take money out of my Roth. rather let it grow. Hope to have 25-30k cash in 4yrs for downpayment.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Kevin001 said:


> I think I'll save for a house downpayment in cash instead of using my Roth. Just don't want to take money out of my Roth. rather let it grow. Hope to have 25-30k cash in 4yrs for downpayment.


Yea you don't want to take money out of your retirement plan. So save for you down payment in a seperate account.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Yea you don't want to take money out of your retirement plan. So save for you down payment in a seperate account.


I mean I also have my 401k but yeah just slightly better to save in cash when I look at the numbers down the road.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

Roberto Gantavre said:


> I recently purchased a studio for sale london. For a cheap price. I think it's a great investment. If you ask me. Because my opinion is this. The best investment is real estate. And it will always be in plus income. What do you think about real estate?


I don't want to invest in real estate as say having properties to rent and/or sell when they go up in value. But I just want to buy a property to live in long term. I don't know how things are where you are, but where I live (in the United States) this is a tricky thing right now. There is not a lot of housing inventory, and you don't get much for your money right now. 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago, you could have gotten a lot more house, and a lot more quality home for about half of what you'd be paying now. Real estate could of course keep going up in value, making it a good investment, but with how inflation with everything in general right now is going, I just don't think real estate is going to be able to keep going up at a steady pace.

I do have fears, that somewhere along the line that people are just going to be renting wherever they live rather than ever owning anything. For me personally, I don't like that at all. I want my own property, to someday own in free and clear. I want to be able to design it how I want, with what I want, instead of whatever the actual owner provides and I just live with it as is.

It's frustrating to me that most of my friends have all bought houses, but I'm sort of trapped at this point where I didn't go out on a limb and buy when it was much cheaper, and now I'm not sure it will ever be possible again. So I may be one of the first where I'm stuck in this "you will rent everything and be happy" phase. Because it surely doesn't make me happy.

I do realize though that in other parts of the country and world that renting is pretty much expected, and always has, but that hasn't typically been the reality where I live.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

What I am finding funny about money is one you have some it is so easy to get more like a giant snowball rolling down a hill picking up more snow … it is not even fair anymore to the kids starting off. Like you can earn an entire average salary every year for free without even doing anything. Last year has really shown that the divide between the financially educated with the time to make it happen and the paycheck to paycheck people has grown even more. With inflation as it is, the paycheck to paycheck people have stones bring them to all new lows and the financially educated have a hot air balloon lifting them to all new heights. Kids can't even save enough to put a down payment on a house meanwhile my already paid off house has gone up 300 grand from when I purchased it.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

^yep..it takes money to make money. The system has always been rigged but due to stagnant wages over the last 20-30 years it's gotten that much worse.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

I regret not buying a bike like i wanted to months ago. I spend $1.84 round trip for the bus every day i work from home to get coffee/lunch. If i had a bike and cycled, I couldve almost made the price of the bike back by now...and have a free bike. I think its too late now, since i want to change jobs. But im still thinking if i should buy it, i have 2-3 months left at least. I cant decide, i dont like having things i have to sell if i want to move away. If it was free i could just leave it.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> Bitcoin has some advantages over gold too. Much easier to store and send large amounts. With hardware wallets and seed phrases you can safely store literally billions in a small safety deposit box. Also send that same amount instantly to anyone for a small transaction fee. It's because of stuff like this I could see it reaching half the market cap of gold over the next 5-10 years.
> 
> Buying and holding has been best for me. Most of my holdings I bought a few years ago. I tried trading a little late last year and early this year and mostly lost money. Made the mistake of doing some altcoin gambling with Bitcoin profits and that's backwards like you said. So from there on just been accumulating again Bitcoin and also Ethereum. I'm thinking with altcoins it's probably best to just throw a small amount you can stomach losing in new projects that look promising and hope for a many times return.
> 
> I took some profits on Bitcoin earlier this year when it hit $58,500 the first time. At this point I've gotten back my initial investment and then some and also don't need the money for anything, so letting it ride to (hopefully) life changing amounts seems the way to go. Also holding through the ups and downs for the past few years has numbed me to it somewhat, so there's no panic selling or FOMO'ing in.


So how are your bitcoin investments working out for you as of today? Looks like it is at 47,708.05 today.

How and where do you purchase yours from? I was thinking maybe about doing a Bitcoin ETF or mutual fund. Perhaps that may be safer and have lower fees? Never invested in it but may want to throw a few bucks at it just for fun. Don't want to invest 10 grand like you did though. Any cheaper ways to do it?


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> So how are your bitcoin investments working out for you as of today? Looks like it is at 47,708.05 today.
> 
> How and where do you purchase yours from? I was thinking maybe about doing a Bitcoin ETF or mutual fund. Perhaps that may be safer and have lower fees? Never invested in it but may want to throw a few bucks at it just for fun. Don't want to invest 10 grand like you did though. Any cheaper ways to do it?



I'm still sitting pretty good. I bought in initially when Bitcoin was between $10k and $12k. I put in a bit more than $10k though and took my initial investment back plus extra earlier this year and letting the rest ride for now.

I'm not really very familiar with ETFs or mutual funds. Is there any reason not to just buy and hold the Bitcoin? The fees are pretty minimal to purchase it.

My strategy since the last crash this spring has just been to put in $500 minimum at the beginning of each month. Sometimes more just depending how much extra cash I have that month. I've been putting that 50/50 into Bitcoin and Ethereum. I buy on Coinbase Pro and then transfer that to my Celsius Network account to earn interest. Currently Bitcoin is earning 6.2% and Ethereum 5.35%. I do keep this separate from my main holdings so as not to have all eggs in the same basket so to speak.

I'd just use Coinbase Pro to purchase Bitcoin, you don't have to buy any minimum amount. The fees start around half a percent to trade. They're pretty easy to use and you can link your bank account for easy purchases. You can even use Cash App to buy Bitcoin if you want it super simple. I'd recommend moving it to some other wallet to store though. Depending how much you're planning on holding a hardware wallet is a good investment.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Coinbase Pro is the way to go, just watch a youtube video on it. I was talking about crypto with some people at work and was surprised no one knew about Coinbase Pro. One guy was all like I have to first convert my crypto to XRP, move it here, pay these high transfer fees, do this and that. I’m like what are you even talking about just do it all on Coinbase Pro with its low fees, transfer money instantly from your checking account, put in limit orders to buy and sell at the price you want to pay for your crypto, it is so simple.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

About a month into the new year. How is everyone sticking to there financial goals and what are they?


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> About a month into the new year. How is everyone sticking to there financial goals and what are they?



I'm trying to invest more this year. Planning on putting into a 401k for the first time. I feel like I'm really far behind with that kind of stuff and have a lot of catching up to do. Might be taking a higher paying position at work and if so will put all the difference into the 401k which would put me pretty close to maxing the company match each year. 

I'd been seriously considering selling my truck to free up some extra money each month because of the crazy used car prices right now, but losing the ability to tow and haul would make life way too inconvenient.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

The housing market here has gotten completely unaffordable. While prices were inching up during the 2015-2019 era, and it still felt expensive to me, now it's officially just out of control. There's few homes coming on the market and what is are ridiculously priced. I really should have bought in early 2020 at the latest. It's frustrating, because it feels like there's nothing to work toward anymore, the dream I had is simply unattainable. I'm fortunate in that I can save up money each month, but it's not enough to offset inflation. Any savings I amass over the years is offset by the rise in house prices during that time.

It's obvious to me this isn't going to change any time soon. The government is going to increase interest rates to try to stop inflation, but it won't make house prices go down. If anything they will just stay where they are now, which is too expensive. And there will still be too few homes for the number of people wanting to buy one.

Really not sure what to do. I'm thinking about just buying some vacant land so at least I'll feel like maybe I have something. Obviously can't do anything with vacant land, but maybe one day if I could ever afford to, I could build a house on it.

Most people my age bought their homes in the 2015-2020 era and got houses for pretty good prices compared to now. Right now you wouldn't get anything remotely comparable to what any of them bought for that price, even almost twice as much now. If I had just taken the plunge in my mid 20s when I didn't have as much income or much savings I'd still be ahead now given the equity I would have built by just owning something and sitting on it for a few years.

There's also the aspect that most people I know buy houses either after, or right before they plan to get married. It's extremely unlikely I will ever be able to get married, so it's also highly likely I will never own a home then.

Also it just feels to me that buying a home now is extremely risky. The economy seems unstable, propped up by huge amounts of stimulus checks and printing of money by BOTH the Trump and Biden administration. That along with heavy handed shutdowns of some states over the past two years have seriously crippled the economy which will likely see the effects of, both in America and on a worldwide level for years.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

@shyguy07

I'm in literally the exact same boat.

Probably will never get married so only have the one income. It's really hard to buy anything on just one income. I should have tried to buy something a few years ago when housing was cheaper but back then I had less in savings so I was waiting to try to save up more. But housing prices rose way faster than my savings rate during those years so I'm actually worse off lol.

And even if I could afford something now (it would have to be a small condo I could never afford an actual house) I'd be deathly afraid of the housing market collapsing and then owing more on a home than it's worth. It's like wtf do you do? Just keep renting I guess.

And you are 100% right in that the Fed under both Trump and Biden was printing like crazy and now we're stuck in a completely basket-case of an economy. The American economy is a house of cards and I guess has been for a while going back to the 2008 financial crisis.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Funny I bought my house in 2008 and I remember hardly anyone out there buying and the home prices on the market would keep getting dropped every week. It’s all relative, it took like almost 4 years from then before home prices started to go up from there and now we are probably going to have 4 years of insane home prices and nothing on the market. Eventually a lot more homes will be built and interest rates will rise. However I believe there is now class segregation from all the money printed. The rich have more money than they know what to do with (Which means buy more real estate) and the poor will just keep existing paycheck to paycheck. If you did not have real estate or at least a lot of stock before the pandemic you are pretty much out of the game at this point. Best thing you can do is just try to make more income, keep expenses low and invest what you have into mutual funds until you can finally get some traction in 2 or 3 years.


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## PurplePeopleEater (May 10, 2017)

I'm wondering if having a 401k is even worth it anymore. 3 percent of my paycheck goes towards it, which still isn't much going to it. Overtime, it will help. It's like what do you do with the money you have now, though? Its like I want more on my paycheck but I also need some for my 401k. The 401k won't even matter for like over 40 more years anyways. But it's still good to have one at the same time. I know that's kind of the point of one. You jave to sacrifice a bit per paycheck to even make it worth it down the road.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

PurplePeopleEater said:


> I'm wondering if having a 401k is even worth it anymore. 3 percent of my paycheck goes towards it, which still isn't much going to it. Overtime, it will help. It's like what do you do with the money you have now, though? Its like I want more on my paycheck but I also need some for my 401k. The 401k won't even matter for like over 40 more years anyways. But it's still good to have one at the same time. I know that's kind of the point of one. You jave to sacrifice a bit per paycheck to even make it worth it down the road.


Well in a lot of cases people that end up having a nice retirement do so because they saved over the years and made the right choices. It's kind of a crap shoot though because what if you get cancer or Alzheimer's or just don't live long enough or aren't in good enough health by the time you reach retirement age?

I guess it's best to plan for retirement in mind like anything else. It's the choices we make now that shape who we become/what situation we're in later.

Of course you do have to save from each paycheck if you want anything. A new car? You have to put some money back. A house? You have to save some money. It takes sacrifice and saving to get where you want or need to be in life. It doesn't just happen magically. LOL

A 401K is certainly better than nothing.

Right now there's not a lot to be made on savings accounts or things like that because interest rates are low. Probably the biggest money maker now is the stock market, but you have to know what you're doing and I have no idea.

I made the mistake of sticking all my savings into multiple accounts, which only make about $50 a year at best. Three summers ago I could have bought a really nice house with the money I have saved up and have been set for life, now it's barely a down payment. Of course I was too stuuupid to make the move, and take the leap, whereas others did and now they're reaping the benefits. It really stinks this inflation. And it's obviously going to get worse, with what's happened in the last two years and a world war possibly brewing in the midst of it.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Been a rough year to start out with in the stock market. I am trying to buy more shares on the dips. How is everyone else doing? I'm down about 10% this year I think. I look at it as the stock market is on sale and there are bargains to be had!


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

My 13 grand in bitcoin is at a wash right now. My brokerage account I have 850 shares of tec ETF stock ticker symbol FTEC from a high of $138 now down to $110. I am wondering if it is a good time to sell out of bitcoin and buy over another 100 shares of that. But then I still think at any time bitcoin could take off again.


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## Hummer3 (Jan 14, 2022)

I started investing Jan 2020. I mostly do dividend stocks, though rethinking this strategy since I'm in a higher tax bracket. I do have growth stocks too, ETFs. and a little bit of crypto.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

PurplePeopleEater said:


> I'm wondering if having a 401k is even worth it anymore. 3 percent of my paycheck goes towards it, which still isn't much going to it. Overtime, it will help. It's like what do you do with the money you have now, though? Its like I want more on my paycheck but I also need some for my 401k. The 401k won't even matter for like over 40 more years anyways. But it's still good to have one at the same time. I know that's kind of the point of one. You jave to sacrifice a bit per paycheck to even make it worth it down the road.


Always contribute up to the match, its free money you'll regret not taking later in life.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

i wonder if i should create an account in the metaverse. the biggest ones right now are decentraland and Sandbox. I've seen the sandbox ads from my brave browser. not sure how it works but maybe i can create an avatar and buy some clothes to start out with. I would never buy into facebook though, no matter how big it gets.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

A local dealership sent me a letter saying they wanted to buy my truck, so I went in Thursday to hear them out. Yesterday they texted me and offered $33,500. I bought the truck about 3 years ago with 18,000 miles for $29,500 and with all the fees it was $35,000 total. It has almost 31,000 miles now. I think if I can get them to go $35,000 I'm going to sell. It would put about $14,000 in my pocket after paying off the loan and free up about $700 a month by losing the payment, insurance, and XM radio subscription.

My main worry is relying on my 25 year old car with almost 200k miles as my main vehicle. Driving a beater doesn't bother me though. If we need to haul something I have a trailer we can pull with my wife's SUV. In a pinch I could drive hers to work too since we work opposite shifts. She would be pretty opposed to driving mine though because despite running great it's in pretty rough shape. And our other two are collector cars that could be temporarily daily driven if needed, but I don't want them out in bad weather. 

Been thinking a lot lately about finances and want to make better decisions regarding that. Partly because of all the price increases lately. And I had a bunch of unexpected expenses this year that really put a dent in my bank account. Medical bills and car repairs and then ended up owing a couple thousand more than expected when I got my taxes done. I feel like I've let my lifestyle creep up way too much over the past couple years and need to get that back in check. Coming from being homeless and making minimum wage a few years ago it's hard sometimes not to want nice things for a change. Like you justify just a little more spending here and there and it adds up.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

JH1983 said:


> A local dealership sent me a letter saying they wanted to buy my truck, so I went in Thursday to hear them out. Yesterday they texted me and offered $33,500. I bought the truck about 3 years ago with 18,000 miles for $29,500 and with all the fees it was $35,000 total. It has almost 31,000 miles now. I think if I can get them to go $35,000 I'm going to sell. It would put about $14,000 in my pocket after paying off the loan and free up about $700 a month by losing the payment, insurance, and XM radio subscription.
> 
> My main worry is relying on my 25 year old car with almost 200k miles as my main vehicle. Driving a beater doesn't bother me though. If we need to haul something I have a trailer we can pull with my wife's SUV. In a pinch I could drive hers to work too since we work opposite shifts. She would be pretty opposed to driving mine though because despite running great it's in pretty rough shape. And our other two are collector cars that could be temporarily daily driven if needed, but I don't want them out in bad weather.
> 
> Been thinking a lot lately about finances and want to make better decisions regarding that. Partly because of all the price increases lately. And I had a bunch of unexpected expenses this year that really put a dent in my bank account. Medical bills and car repairs and then ended up owing a couple thousand more than expected when I got my taxes done. I feel like I've let my lifestyle creep up way too much over the past couple years and need to get that back in check. Coming from being homeless and making minimum wage a few years ago it's hard sometimes not to want nice things for a change. Like you justify just a little more spending here and there and it adds up.


Well if you want to get rid of your truck now is the best time you are ever going to have most likely. If you profit 14 grand you could use 5 or 6 grand of it and get another automobile if you don't want to depend on your 25 year old car. Freeing up 700 a month is real nice as well. 

Kind of depends on your overall financial situation as to if this is a good idea. But I would say you need to have a really good income and no other debt to justify a 700 a month truck payment


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> Well if you want to get rid of your truck now is the best time you are ever going to have most likely. If you profit 14 grand you could use 5 or 6 grand of it and get another automobile if you don't want to depend on your 25 year old car. Freeing up 700 a month is real nice as well.
> 
> Kind of depends on your overall financial situation as to if this is a good idea. But I would say you need to have a really good income and no other debt to justify a 700 a month truck payment



Ended up taking $34,500 yesterday. 

The payment was actually around $525. When I set it up for autopay I just rounded up and paid $600 a month. Then with full coverage insurance and SiriusXM the total was about $700. But you're right it was too much to justify.

I don't know if I'll get something else. Probably wouldn't want to spend more than about $2k on an 80's or 90's truck just to haul stuff with. I have other stuff I could drive if my daily driver broke down until I got it fixed, just don't want them out in bad weather. It's mostly that I need to haul stuff fairly often is why I'd want a cheap truck. That and as a spare during the winter.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Just glance at any main street and there are about 100 cars on the road at any given second of the day. I am sure you can find something even for a quarter of the price that will get the job done. Top of that, any vehicle below 8 grand I would just get Liability Insurance saving you even more money every month. Only a complete dumbass finances a 40 plus thousand car with full coverage on that number that is not already a millionaire.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

I paid $19,000 for my car I believe, and I put half that down, which makes my payments $205 a month. I could pay the rest off, I owe about $5,000 on it at this point, but I'm just keeping the loan because it gives me a third revolving credit account. I have two credit cards that I pay off each month, so the car loan gives me a third account, which you need 3 lines of credit if you get a home loan. Actually I've been using just one of the credit cards for a while, I should start using the other to get it active again and get the amount split between 2 cards each month.

Now if I did get a mortgage, I would pay the car off after to get rid of that monthly payment. But at this rate it looks like by the time I'm ever able to afford a house with these crazy prices, that I'll probably have the car paid off already anyway.

I don't think I would ever want to pay over $25k for a vehicle at most, but people have different preferences and trucks tend to be much higher priced than other vehicles. Although I don't think I would ever buy a brand new vehicle ever, just never really had an interest in that myself.

Now, it goes both ways. Dave Ramsey seems to have the idea that everyone has to drive a $500 beater unless they're a millionaire, and you're only allowed to buy a home if you can do so in cash, and if you absolutely have to have a mortgage, the total payment, including property taxes and insurance, and perhaps even utilities, has to be at the very most 1/4 of your monthly net income. This all to me is just crazy talk and I believe he's completely out of touch, and does not realize that there aren't a lot of people walking around with as much money as he has. Now I do believe, that especially in America, I'm sure a lot of people are over-leveraging themselves, because I notice a lot of people seem to have it all and want to live a higher lifestyle with things and experiences, and I just don't know how they're affording it. So Ramsey does have a point, but it doesn't work in the real world. I believe both schools of thought are falling into an opposite ditch. From a "Millionaire Next Door" perspective it probably is true, but most people just likely aren't interested in giving up all those things just to become super wealthy.

What annoys me the most financially, right now is the housing situation. The simple answer is I should've took the chance and bought a house 2+ years ago. The thing now, is that what you got in a house 2+ years ago is not nearly what you get now. No, now what you get for that price is the very, very starter homes that I looked at nearly 10 years ago and didn't make as much money. I was okay with those houses then, at those prices, and what I was making then. But, no I'm not willing to have waited 10 years and saved and built up my credit to buy what amounts to what I could have bought for 1/3 the price almost 10 years ago without waiting all this time. That, my friend, is what we call a rip-off.

Now, most people that I know personally, do believe there is a recession coming, and that prices will cool off somewhat. Not to the level they did in the 2008 financial crisis, but somewhat. They tell me to wait to buy a home until that happens. Me personally, I have no idea. What is different now vs back then, from what I see the biggest difference, is in 2008 there was an over abundance of homes. There were more homes than we really knew what to do with. This time, there seems to be a shortage. How we ended up with such a shortage in a few short years, I don't know. But I think it's likely because of the millennial generation that did not buy in their 20s, are starting to buy, plus even the younger generation.

Another thing that sticks out to me, is many, many of the houses I see that I would be interested in, later end up coming up for rent. And it's not that the seller gave up and decided to rent it out to keep up with the bills. No, they are selling to corporations, and in some cases, individuals, who are renting them out. And they're renting them out for far, far more than the mortgage payment would be on a 30 year loan.

What I don't know is if people are making offers on these houses to live in, and they're getting beat out by these investors who are paying cash or higher offers, or if they just aren't interested in buying right now or what.

But this is the biggest flaw I see in this wait until there's a recession idea. Because even if interest rates going up did push prices down, there still isn't going to be much to buy. There's not going to be suddenly a lot of homes to choose from unless lots of people lose their jobs and have to sell their houses. And in that case, it's unlikely I'd be in a position to buy myself. The other issue I see, is there are a lot of people out there with this same waiting idea. So you get all those people who have waited for prices to go down to buy, and let's say they all decide to buy, and there's still not enough inventory, so prices will still remain high.

I don't really see a way out of this situation. And renting isn't necessarily the solution either. Rents have gone up too, quite a bit. And monthly rent, all I could really afford would be a tiny apartment. And that might be normal to people who live in NYC or LA, but to me it's not. I'm use to space, and being able to go outside and have a yard, walking down a street that isn't filled with traffic, etc. So I'm not sure that works for me. I guess it would be fine as a temporary situation but spending all my time outside of work in one room, and not having a workable strategy to move on from that to something else, doesn't seem ideal either.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

shyguy07 said:


> I paid $19,000 for my car I believe, and I put half that down, which makes my payments $205 a month. I could pay the rest off, I owe about $5,000 on it at this point, but I'm just keeping the loan because it gives me a third revolving credit account. I have two credit cards that I pay off each month, so the car loan gives me a third account, which you need 3 lines of credit if you get a home loan. Actually I've been using just one of the credit cards for a while, I should start using the other to get it active again and get the amount split between 2 cards each month.


How old are you? You know you might have been more inclined to have bought a house a few years ago if you had a down payment instead of giving it all away for that car. We all have to make choices on what we are going to save for and invest in, you did a classic putting the cart before the horse. I’m 43 driving since I was 16 and I have never spent over 10 grand for a car in my life. Even now I have 500 grand in all my investment accounts and my paid off house could Easley sell for over 450 grand. I just bought a 2011 Outback off my brother's wife for 9,500. It only has 85,000 miles on it and it still drives around like it is new; They wrote down a gift so I did not have to pay any sales tax on it plus I just got liability insurance so I am only paying like $400 a year for that. There are more cars out there than people, I am sure you can find good deals without lighting years worth of savings on fire .


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

zork20001 said:


> How old are you? You know you might have been more inclined to have bought a house a few years ago if you had a down payment instead of giving it all away for that car. We all have to make choices on what we are going to save for and invest in, you did a classic putting the cart before the horse. I’m 43 driving since I was 16 and I have never spent over 10 grand for a car in my life. Even now I have 500 grand in all my investment accounts and my paid off house could Easley sell for over 450 grand. I just bought a 2011 Outback off my brother's wife for 9,500. It only has 85,000 miles on it and it still drives around like it is new; They wrote down a gift so I did not have to pay any sales tax on it plus I just got liability insurance so I am only paying like $400 a year for that. There are more cars out there than people, I am sure you can find good deals without lighting years worth of savings on fire .
> 
> 
> View attachment 149399


I'm trying to get to that point. My mortgage, property taxes, insurance, and utilities combined are about 20% of my income. I think with some adjustments I can realistically live on half my income. I just wish I'd gotten started sooner with working and saving instead of mid to late 30's. Getting into Bitcoin when I did helped quite a bit at least. Doubt I'll be where you are by 43, but I'm trying to get caught up as best I can. 

We're trying to acquire a second investment property this year. We're a little over a year into our first one and it's gone really well so far. I don't think my wife and I could ever make the kind of money we want to make through any job either of us could ever get with our GEDs and no college, so we're exploring other options. That's part of what has me eliminating unnecessary expenses like the vehicle payment. Housing is still pretty cheap where I live compared to other places and that helps too. 

I'd agree that something to get you from point A to point B might as well be a beater. I've been daily driving my 97 Buick since my dad died and left it to me. It does the job as well as any new car could. I'm a car guy though and for something fun to drive you get what you pay for. Maybe not worth it to everyone, but to some it is. I'd rather have it while I'm young enough to enjoy it than wait and be the typical old guy with a sports car. Still cheaper than having even one kid and nobody bats an eye when people have those. But for a truck I've been looking online and there's 80's and 90's trucks in the $2k range that'll meet my needs just fine. Better in some ways because the one I had was nice and I didn't like getting it dirty.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

zork20001 said:


> How old are you? You know you might have been more inclined to have bought a house a few years ago if you had a down payment instead of giving it all away for that car. We all have to make choices on what we are going to save for and invest in, you did a classic putting the cart before the horse. I’m 43 driving since I was 16 and I have never spent over 10 grand for a car in my life. Even now I have 500 grand in all my investment accounts and my paid off house could Easley sell for over 450 grand. I just bought a 2011 Outback off my brother's wife for 9,500. It only has 85,000 miles on it and it still drives around like it is new; They wrote down a gift so I did not have to pay any sales tax on it plus I just got liability insurance so I am only paying like $400 a year for that. There are more cars out there than people, I am sure you can find good deals without lighting years worth of savings on fire .


With all due respect, it is at least a bit presumptuous of you to assume I "gave all of my savings away for that car". No bragging intended but that $9700 down payment was a pretty small fraction of the savings I had at the time, and I've saved up multiples of it in the three years since. While I won't use the term "entitled" because I don't think entitlement should be a thing, and not everyone cares about these things, but spending $20k on a car at nearly 30 years old at that time, and after ten years of working full time, and another four years of full time college prior, I would hardly consider to be lighting all of one's money on fire to put the cart before the horse. I've known people who make about the same as me who paid the same or more for cars in their early 20s and have spend more than that on another car in their 30s. And yet they have also bought homes.

Spending $10K for a downpayment on that car is hardly the reason I can't afford a house. You may have noticed that prices have increased around $100k to $200k even in places outside of large cities just in the last few years. A large downpayment, which I do have, can help, but it doesn't get the payments low enough when my pay hasn't increased at rates like that. Especially with increased mortgage rates. And the houses today at these prices, that are the same or similar to what one could have bought 10 years ago (here buying that car is not even in the equation) is just ridiculous. That would be throwing one's money away, considering the amount of work they need.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

JH1983 said:


> I'm trying to get to that point. My mortgage, property taxes, insurance, and utilities combined are about 20% of my income. I think with some adjustments I can realistically live on half my income. I just wish I'd gotten started sooner with working and saving instead of mid to late 30's. Getting into Bitcoin when I did helped quite a bit at least. Doubt I'll be where you are by 43, but I'm trying to get caught up as best I can.
> 
> We're trying to acquire a second investment property this year. We're a little over a year into our first one and it's gone really well so far. I don't think my wife and I could ever make the kind of money we want to make through any job either of us could ever get with our GEDs and no college, so we're exploring other options. That's part of what has me eliminating unnecessary expenses like the vehicle payment. Housing is still pretty cheap where I live compared to other places and that helps too.
> 
> I'd agree that something to get you from point A to point B might as well be a beater. I've been daily driving my 97 Buick since my dad died and left it to me. It does the job as well as any new car could. I'm a car guy though and for something fun to drive you get what you pay for. Maybe not worth it to everyone, but to some it is. I'd rather have it while I'm young enough to enjoy it than wait and be the typical old guy with a sports car. Still cheaper than having even one kid and nobody bats an eye when people have those. But for a truck I've been looking online and there's 80's and 90's trucks in the $2k range that'll meet my needs just fine. Better in some ways because the one I had was nice and I didn't like getting it dirty.


I always wanted a nice car, so it was worth it to me to pay that $20K. I have a pretty decent paying job for my area, so it wasn't really much of a stretch and the payments are only $205 a month. I plan to drive it until it's not worth fixing, however long that ends up being. I would have fixed my old car instead but it was the age where it was having lots of little issues that weren't big deals but those on top of a new transmission it just wasn't worth it to me for a car that was over 20 years old. It was actually hard for me to move on but I'd gotten my moneys worth out of it.

Somebody told me I have expensive taste, I don't think I do but it's all relative. I am kind of picky about architecture and such and I do want a relatively nice house. It doesn't have to be a mansion, but I want somewhere with privacy and that I like the layout and style of. That's kind of hard to find right now, I don't understand how people in my area afford houses anymore. I make pretty decent money for my area and would really only afford very little house at this point compared to even 3 years ago. I would've been ok with those places when they were what they were selling for 5 or 10 years ago but not when you could have gotten a way nicer place two years ago for what these places are going for now, it's crazy.

At one time I wanted a rental place but I'm not interested with all the hassle, I just want a nice place to live in myself and a steady job to pay for it.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

shyguy07 said:


> I always wanted a nice car, so it was worth it to me to pay that $20K. I have a pretty decent paying job for my area, so it wasn't really much of a stretch and the payments are only $205 a month. I plan to drive it until it's not worth fixing, however long that ends up being. I would have fixed my old car instead but it was the age where it was having lots of little issues that weren't big deals but those on top of a new transmission it just wasn't worth it to me for a car that was over 20 years old. It was actually hard for me to move on but I'd gotten my moneys worth out of it.
> 
> Somebody told me I have expensive taste, I don't think I do but it's all relative. I am kind of picky about architecture and such and I do want a relatively nice house. It doesn't have to be a mansion, but I want somewhere with privacy and that I like the layout and style of. That's kind of hard to find right now, I don't understand how people in my area afford houses anymore. I make pretty decent money for my area and would really only afford very little house at this point compared to even 3 years ago. I would've been ok with those places when they were what they were selling for 5 or 10 years ago but not when you could have gotten a way nicer place two years ago for what these places are going for now, it's crazy.
> 
> At one time I wanted a rental place but I'm not interested with all the hassle, I just want a nice place to live in myself and a steady job to pay for it.



That's how it was with my truck. I'd always wanted a nice 4x4 truck. The one I had before my last one was a little older and I kept having to fix stuff on it. So I decided to get a newer one under warranty. It was never a stretch to pay for it or anything. After three years of payments and only putting 12,000 miles on it I just decided it wasn't worth it to have it anymore.

I remember you made a thread when you bought your car. I think I suggested keeping the old one since you were attached to it.

I feel like if something brings you enough joy and you're willing to sacrifice to have it then it's worth it. I watched my dad work 80+ hours a week my whole life. When he got older he bought a motorcycle and a classic car and that was going to be his retirement. Then he got cancer, forced to retire early, and died without ever getting to enjoy anything. Not that you should just go full YOLO and blow all your money, but nothing wrong with living a little here and there in my opinion. Or if being really frugal and saving a ton of money makes you happy then do that. I'm kind of in the middle. I'm frugal in some ways, but if I want something bad enough I'll make it work.

Right now I'm really looking at what's worth it to me and what's not. I'm okay with driving my beater car to and from work. I get dirty at my job and soaked when it rains, so having something nicer would be a waste. I've decided to get an old beater truck too for hauling stuff. I'm keeping my sports car because it's very enjoyable to me. Wouldn't make sense to everyone to have something like that, but I'd rather have it young enough to actually enjoy it than be the stereotypical old guy in a Corvette. 

I guess I'm not that picky about a house. As long as it's in the country with a decent sized yard I'm good with it. I'd rather live in a single wide trailer on 20 acres far away from everyone than a nice house in town with neighbors really close. 

The rental is my wife's old house. She owned her place when we got together. Then when I got my current job making a much better income I bought this place and we moved here without selling hers. And then decided just to rent it out. But now it's seeming like a viable option to increase income and net worth by trying to get a few more.

Oh yeah, about that other post of yours where you mentioned needing to use your credit cards to keep them open. I have a couple older ones I don't use, but want to keep open and I just set up an autopay on them. One goes to the company that picks up my garbage and I have Hulu on another one. I've accidentally let one get closed for not using it before. Not that you should go get something for autopay just for that, but if it's something you're already using I mean.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Today was S&P 500 ETF buying day. What had happened is that I had an old 401k with around 300k sitting in my Fidelity account invested into the S&P 500 that came with that account . For whatever reason they decided to move this account to another firm without telling me so that really pissed me off. I wanted it back in Fidelity so I called the other place and gave them my account number to my Rollover IRA and my Roth IRA with Fidelity. For some reason they said you had to wait a week before they could initiate the trade, the reason why I called them that day was because it was at a high. So I waited a week, sure enough the stock dropped, now my 300k is about 282k if I were to sell it then to bring it over to Fidelity. I was just going to have to wait and let it get to at least 300k again before I sold. Few more weeks later it got back up, I called them back and had them sell it at 302k. 

Now usually I would say never try to time the market, you never know the good buying and selling days and you usually end up losing money half the time. This time as I was waiting for my money to get to Fidelity something seemed wrong with the market, the sentiment seemed bearish. So I was like there is no rush to buy back in, let me see how this plays out. I waited a few weeks watched the stock prices drop by a few points here and there, this last week it took a massive dip. Checking the charts the S&P is now where it was at mid 2021. I will take my 23% on 300k win and bought back in


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Series I US Savings bonds are now paying 9.62% annually due to inflation. Probably the best investment you can make right now. The stock market will probably be down this year but you can at least make something with savings bonds.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

That also adjusts every six months. After 6 months that could drop down to 4 % and now your money is stuck in there, you have to hold for at least a year and if you sell before 5 years you lose the last 3 months of interest. Bonds are a long term play and if you are going to make a long term play the S&P 500 will serve you way better.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

zork20001 said:


> That also adjusts every six months. After 6 months that could drop down to 4 % and now your money is stuck in there, you have to hold for at least a year and if you sell before 5 years you lose the last 3 months of interest. Bonds are a long term play and if you are going to make a long term play the S&P 500 will serve you way better.


Well it's not really a bond per se as it can't be traded in secondary markets, it's more of a government CD than anything really. But in the current environment with inflation at these levels its a pretty smart investment. It's essentially risk free and offering a positive yield when most bond funds are offering a negative yield currently, and that is in nominal terms. In real terms it's so much worse. Bonds are a terrible investment right now, they are bleeding yield and will continue to do so as rates climb (bond prices are inversely correlated to the prevailing market interest rate, i.e. the Fed Funds rate). Yes the savings bond is offering basically a 0% return in real dollar terms but hey that's better than a negative yield and it prevents your savings from eroding due to inflation.

I think we're likely to have high levels of inflation for a year or more so I wouldn't be concerned with the rate adjusting in 6 months or having to forgo three months worth of interest - when rates do drop and it's time to sell the rate will be so low and you will be ready to move on with your capital preserved you won't care about those three months anyway.

The S&P is also negative for the year and likely to continue to drop. Current returns are not sufficient to compensate for the S&P's risk profile so it's a no go. It would be better to preserve capital for now and reinvest into the S&P after the market bottoms out once the Fed is done cutting rates and we're through the inevitable recession. Currently I am short S&P and NASDAQ indexes and long agro commodities, energy and consumer staples. Sold off all my tech stocks. Also will be using the savings bonds to shield uninvested cash from inflation. Once we're at bottom I will realize these gains and go long in S&P and tech again. May also invest in some bonds then as well once rates top out to lock in both those high coupons and the price appreciation as rates descend.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

You don't know when the bottom for the S&P is that's the whole point! This week could very well have hit the bottom and now you are missing out on it. Unless you are buying into an all time high you never know what the next lowest rate is for a stock you will never see again.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

zork20001 said:


> You don't know when the bottom for the S&P is that's the whole point! This week could very well have hit the bottom and now you are missing out on it. Unless you are buying into an all time high you never know what the next lowest rate is for a stock you will never see again.


Well I know we're definitely not at bottom now. Just dropped another 3.5% today. Daily volume oscillation is ticking up not down, the intensity of selling and downward pressure on prices is growing. It'll keep dropping for a while as the economy decelerates. The Fed is going to continue to raise rates and engage in quantitative strengthening which will decrease demand for stocks pushing down prices. We've got a long ways to go before we bottom.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

zork20001 said:


> Deleted.


S&P dropped another half a percent today. Think its likely to drop at least another 10%, maybe more.

I put money in at the Covid bottom of course but won't say how much. I mean why wouldn't I have? lol that's easy money right there. Timing is everything in investing. I made a killing on that, put a lot of it into a 2X leveraged tech stock ETF so made a lot there, like 400% above my initial investment. Well, made a lot relative to my initial investment. I'm by no means rich so it's not like I'm putting in hundreds or even tens of thousands of dollars. I put in what I can when I can.

I don't disagree that we are unlikely to see March 2020 prices again. I hope we don't because that would be disastrous for the economy. However, we're likely to see a significant pullback over the next year or two. We're in a classic bubble (or were). Bubbles burst. That's what this one is doing presently.

I don't know ****? Jeez, thanks.









'We are nowhere near the bottom,' top economist says as global markets crater


Stock markets are set for more heavy selling this summer as central banks around the world hike interest rates to fight spiraling inflation, said one economist.




www.cnbc.com


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## PurplePeopleEater (May 10, 2017)

@either/or Yea, like where the hell did the you don't know **** even come from? This isn't a thread to argue at someone for no reason. 😒


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## Memories of Silence (May 15, 2015)

This thread isn’t intended for people to attack each other (none are). One post has been deleted.


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Looking at my brokerage account today I am down about 25 thousand this year. I am buying more its a great buying opportunity. Everything is on sale. Only problem is I wish I could predict where the bottom is so I could buy at the perfect time.

Dosen't look good. These losses on paper but someone told me back in 2008 when the stock market crashed that now is when the next generation of millionaires will be made. Same can be said for today I think.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

lol good synopsis of the last 2 or so years


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528731902504337408


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

Anyone down big on cryptocurrency? I did not buy at the high but I am still down about 30%. Think it will come back long term? I don't need the money so I have plenty of time to wait for it to recover.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

chrisinmd said:


> Anyone down big on cryptocurrency? I did not buy at the high but I am still down about 30%. Think it will come back long term? I don't need the money so I have plenty of time to wait for it to recover.


im down about 40% as well. you might already know Guy from coin bureau but he has good takes on crypto and im subscribed to his mailing list. most are predicting btc low of 20k. i feel the big coins will come back... btc and eth. But govt cryptocurrencies are probably going to become mainstream soon enough.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

chrisinmd said:


> Anyone down big on cryptocurrency? I did not buy at the high but I am still down about 30%. Think it will come back long term? I don't need the money so I have plenty of time to wait for it to recover.



I'm still up on what's left of my initial buy in of Bitcoin from a few years ago. My monthly DCA of Bitcoin and Ethereum of the last year I'm down on though.

I think we're done until the next Bitcoin halving. Still confident long term. Not selling anything and will continue to accumulate through this bear market. It was something like 550 days after the last two halvings that we hit new all time highs, so going by that it'll be 2025. Assuming history repeats itself anyway. 

I'm in a few alts that probably won't survive this bear market though. A lot of coins probably won't.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

I sold my crypto recently. I was up like 350% but that was down from like 800% a few months ago. I didn't have much invested though. I feel like it will keep trending downwards for now. That's why I sold. But who knows. Wish I sold a couple of months ago.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Bitcoin support levels should be at 38,000 to 40,000 right now but because of this market downturn it dropped down to 30,000. It really really should not be hanging out in the 20’s, if it does that is the very definition of be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful; I will be putting a lot of money into bitcoin if it even gets down to like 26,000


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

Bitcoin has never been below a previous ATH after a new ATH has been reached. Good buying opportunity though in my opinion. People have said it's dead literally every time and it's proven them all wrong time after time.


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## Ahiram (8 mo ago)

I have a feeling the stock market’s gonna be a bloodbath today. With bitcoin and the crypto markets dropping like they are that’s gotta be an indicator of a very bad day coming up on the stock market. Gonna be ugly


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)




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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Using the 2008 financial crisis and dot com bubble for reference, it looks like we have a ways to go to hit bottom. We're probably less than half way there in terms of percentage decline and trading days. Average bear market lasts 289 days and bottoms out at -37%. So thats probably around where we are heading.

Impossible to tell though. But I still think we have a ways to go.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536808717450100737


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

JH1983 said:


> Bitcoin has never been below a previous ATH after a new ATH has been reached. Good buying opportunity though in my opinion. People have said it's dead literally every time and it's proven them all wrong time after time.


Looks to be oversold based on RSI but I won't get back in until it hits 10,000. It basically tracks the NASDAQ 100 and tech stocks so if those continue to drop so will BTC.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537171041348423683


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

either/or said:


> Looks to be oversold based on RSI but I won't get back in until it hits 10,000. It basically tracks the NASDAQ 100 and tech stocks so if those continue to drop so will BTC.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537171041348423683



That's around where I got in initially. Kinda wish I'd sold more at the peak, but at this point I'm holding till the next bull run or riding it all the way down to zero. 

I have half a Bitcoin, some Ethereum, and stablecoin tied up in this Celsius Network fiasco. They froze withdrawals and transfers over the weekend. I'm just considering it lost for now, but if I am able to get it out I may sell it.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

JH1983 said:


> Ended up taking $34,500 yesterday.
> 
> The payment was actually around $525. When I set it up for autopay I just rounded up and paid $600 a month. Then with full coverage insurance and SiriusXM the total was about $700. But you're right it was too much to justify.
> 
> I don't know if I'll get something else. Probably wouldn't want to spend more than about $2k on an 80's or 90's truck just to haul stuff with. I have other stuff I could drive if my daily driver broke down until I got it fixed, just don't want them out in bad weather. It's mostly that I need to haul stuff fairly often is why I'd want a cheap truck. That and as a spare during the winter.












So here's what I ended up getting. Paid $1300 for this 95 Ford F-250 I found on Facebook marketplace. $400 for the license and title and I'm dropping it off with my mechanic next week to fix a couple minor things. So should be pretty close to the $2k budget I'd hoped to stay at. My limited mechanical knowledge tells me it has an exhaust leak and that it possibly needs new spark plugs and wires. So shouldn't be too expensive to fix and the mechanic is a family friend that's pretty trustworthy. 

Miss my nice truck, but don't miss the monthly payment. Especially since every time I go to the grocery store these days there's something I buy that's up 10-20% from the week before. Insurance is only $20.10 a month on this truck too.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

JH1983 said:


> View attachment 149690
> 
> 
> So here's what I ended up getting. Paid $1300 for this 95 Ford F-250 I found on Facebook marketplace. $400 for the license and title and I'm dropping it off with my mechanic next week to fix a couple minor things. So should be pretty close to the $2k budget I'd hoped to stay at. My limited mechanical knowledge tells me it has an exhaust leak and that it possibly needs new spark plugs and wires. So shouldn't be too expensive to fix and the mechanic is a family friend that's pretty trustworthy.
> ...


Good price it is just too bad you bought a gas guzzler at this time, I am guessing you will be driving that buick? 95% of the time. My outback gets like 24-25 miles to the gallon and my job is like 25 miles away, $5 a gallon it cost me like $10 just to get to work and back; if gas were to go up to $8 a gallon it would cost me $16 just for the privilege of getting to work. Daily driving something that is like 16 miles a gallon could get nuts real quick.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

zork20001 said:


> Good price it is just too bad you bought a gas guzzler at this time, I am guessing you will be driving that buick? 95% of the time. My outback gets like 24-25 miles to the gallon and my job is like 25 miles away, $5 a gallon it cost me like $10 just to get to work and back; if gas were to go up to $8 a gallon it would cost me $16 just for the privilege of getting to work. Daily driving something that is like 16 miles a gallon could get nuts real quick.


Yes, the Buick has been my daily driver for 7-8 years now and I plan on keeping it going as long as possible. It gets close to 30mpg on the highway. My commute is 19 miles each way, 17 miles of which is interstate. I think it costs me around $7 a day in gas right now to get to work and back. I usually drive around 75mph, so probably only getting like 25mpg or so at that speed. Hard to say exactly with the 90's analog dash technology.

Just need the truck for towing and hauling though. And as a backup if the Buick is in the shop. So the poor gas mileage isn't as much a concern with it as little as it'll be driven.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

House prices move wayyy slower than the stock market so we probably have years go to there. Prices are actually still going up here. One will sell and then basically the same house comes up on the market for $50k more the next week. Stinks because I don't give a crap about the stock market - I just want a nice house. And that's probably still a decade away, if prices ever actually go down. I think they will, but who knows, it could just be gridlock and people will have to accept they'll never have one. I just hope I'm not stuck with an apartment all my life, because I want space for hobbies and a garage and a yard. I guess that's too much to ask in this century even in America. Most people take all that for granted, but those of us who actually want it feel like we'll never get there.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

shyguy07 said:


> House prices move wayyy slower than the stock market so we probably have years go to there. Prices are actually still going up here. One will sell and then basically the same house comes up on the market for $50k more the next week. Stinks because I don't give a crap about the stock market - I just want a nice house. And that's probably still a decade away, if prices ever actually go down. I think they will, but who knows, it could just be gridlock and people will have to accept they'll never have one. I just hope I'm not stuck with an apartment all my life, because I want space for hobbies and a garage and a yard. I guess that's too much to ask in this century even in America. Most people take all that for granted, but those of us who actually want it feel like we'll never get there.


Yah. Lots of us in this boat right now. I feel like just when the economy ****s the bed enough that home prices drop significantly I'll end up losing my job due to the recession and so still won't be able to buy anything. FML.

I was reading something the other day that homes in the US are now more than 4 times as expensive (adjusted for inflation) than they were in the first half of the 1980s. But incomes are basically exactly the same (again, adjusted for inflation). So everyone that came after the baby boomers and older Gen X is screwed. Even if you can buy a house it takes up so much more of your budget than it used to. That and student loans have really killed millennials.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543410742619258882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543405493116456960


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

either/or said:


> Yah. Lots of us in this boat right now. I feel like just when the economy ****s the bed enough that home prices drop significantly I'll end up losing my job due to the recession and so still won't be able to buy anything. FML.
> 
> I was reading something the other day that homes in the US are now more than 4 times as expensive (adjusted for inflation) than they were in the first half of the 1980s. But incomes are basically exactly the same (again, adjusted for inflation). So everyone that came after the baby boomers and older Gen X is screwed. Even if you can buy a house it takes up so much more of your budget than it used to. That and student loans have really killed millennials.
> 
> ...


Most of my friends all bought houses between 3-5 years ago, when prices were cheaper. I didn't, and looking back I really should have bought. They still seemed like a ton of money back then, but looking back, not really.

I too worry about buying and then losing my job with this crazy economy. And it doesn't make sense to buy at these prices AND higher interest rates.

Right now I'm just saving as much cash as I can. My hope is I can go in with a big down payment if prices do come down, and then I get a cheaper house and the higher interest rates won't matter as much. But who knows.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

Getting someplace that you can say you own is probably the most important thing you can do in your life, you are just too vulnerable without it. Is there anything more pathetic than seeing a 60 or 70 year old man or woman getting kicked out of their rented place that they have been at for the last 30 years and not wanting to leave because they no longer have any place they can go or afford. I just think what have you done your entire life to be in that position, clearly not a lot…


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

shyguy07 said:


> Most of my friends all bought houses between 3-5 years ago, when prices were cheaper. I didn't, and looking back I really should have bought. They still seemed like a ton of money back then, but looking back, not really.
> 
> I too worry about buying and then losing my job with this crazy economy. And it doesn't make sense to buy at these prices AND higher interest rates.
> 
> Right now I'm just saving as much cash as I can. My hope is I can go in with a big down payment if prices do come down, and then I get a cheaper house and the higher interest rates won't matter as much. But who knows.


Yah, same. All my friends have houses as well. But they are also married and so have dual incomes. That makes a big difference. That's one reason I can't afford anything right now, I only have one income. I also should have bought something too. I could never have afforded a detached house but I could have bought a 1 bedroom condo. But I didn't expect the sharp rise in home values so I was planning on saving for a few more years before buying something and then the pandemic hit and that seemed to change everything. Also I was going though a terrible period of GAD back a few years ago so I couldn't handle the additional stress.

I'm also just trying to save hoping someday I will be able to afford something. Not much else you can do. But with inflation you're losing like $10 of every $100 you save. Hopefully home prices come down at least 10-20%.









Housing correction is 'dead ahead,' warns economist Mark Zandi


Mark Zandi, Moody's Analytics chief economist, on whether the housing market is due for a coast-to-coast correction. With CNBC's Melissa Lee and the Fast Money traders, Guy Adami, Dan Nathan, Courtney Garcia and Karen Finerman.




www.cnbc.com


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

zork20001 said:


> Getting someplace that you can say you own is probably the most important thing you can do in your life, you are just too vulnerable without it. Is there anything more pathetic than seeing a 60 or 70 year old man or woman getting kicked out of their rented place that they have been at for the last 30 years and not wanting to leave because they no longer have any place they can go or afford. I just think what have you done your entire life to be in that position, clearly not a lot…


Well a lot of people don't ever have the opportunity or ability to purchase property. We live in an economy where wages have stagnated for the last 40 years and have barely budged while home values have risen more than 400%. And not everyone has the ability to take out a loan to fund a college education which limits their economic prospects. Then there are people who are partially or fully disabled and either cannot work or whose jobs prospects are severely limited. And what about people with kids? Kids are expensive.

Imagine you have two kids are, are paying $2,200 a month in rent which is average around here where I live, $800 a month in groceries and home goods, $500 in student loan debt, $200 in gas and $100 in utilities. That's just the basics and that's $3,800 a month. Now imagine one partner is disabled and can't work and the other is only making $65,000 a year because that is all the market will compensate them for their skillset. On a monthly basis and after taxes etc. that is only around $3,800 a month. So they end up living paycheck to paycheck and can't ever save anything. The one partner didn't want to become disabled but did. The other partner didn't want to have limited job prospects but has a mild intellectual disability and so is limited to construction work and physical labor which doesn't pay much.

Situations like the above are quite common and in fact is the actual situation of someone I know. How do you save for a down payment on a house in that situation? You can't. Opportunities aren't spread equally throughout the economy, some people have access to certain opportunities that others do not. The bottom 50% in this country are opportunity deprived and cannot just pull themselves up by the bootstraps.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

I am only saying purchasing a place to live should be your top priority, it goes under one of the basic needs of food, shelter, clothing. Shelter that can be taken away from you at any given time is not going to cut it long term. You are basically asking me to imagine making one bad decision after another bad decision in order to prevent me from ever being able to afford the important thing which is property. You also forgot to mention someone in their early 20’s leasing a brand new car helping to insure that they will never have money saved. You make your own opportunities in life and America has millions of opportunities, land and housing for anyone that does not want to spend their entire life living up their own ***.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

either/or said:


> Imagine you have two kids are, are paying $2,200 a month in rent which is average around here where I live, $800 a month in groceries and home goods, $500 in student loan debt, $200 in gas and $100 in utilities. That's just the basics and that's $3,800 a month. Now imagine one partner is disabled and can't work and the other is only making $65,000 a year because that is all the market will compensate them for their skillset. On a monthly basis and after taxes etc. that is only around $3,800 a month. So they end up living paycheck to paycheck and can't ever save anything. The one partner didn't want to become disabled but did. The other partner didn't want to have limited job prospects but has a mild intellectual disability and so is limited to construction work and physical labor which doesn't pay much.



There's plenty of places in the country that would be enough though. I "only" make not much more than that and it goes a long way here. To me $2200 a month just for rent seems insane. That's my mortgage, property taxes, homeowners insurance, utilities, insurance on four vehicles, health insurance, gas, and groceries combined. If I could work remote I think I'd try to find somewhere even cheaper to live than here. 

I've only ever lived here, so maybe I just don't get it. One of my cousins moved to Seattle years ago and he had to live in his car for several years just to save up enough to rent a place. And he loves it there. So maybe I'm missing something. I get it if you have some high end job that you need to live in a HCOL area, but I don't get why regular people with regular incomes would live somewhere that they're priced out of basic existence.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

JH1983 said:


> There's plenty of places in the country that would be enough though. I "only" make not much more than that and it goes a long way here. To me $2200 a month just for rent seems insane. That's my mortgage, property taxes, homeowners insurance, utilities, insurance on four vehicles, health insurance, gas, and groceries combined. If I could work remote I think I'd try to find somewhere even cheaper to live than here.
> 
> I've only ever lived here, so maybe I just don't get it. One of my cousins moved to Seattle years ago and he had to live in his car for several years just to save up enough to rent a place. And he loves it there. So maybe I'm missing something. I get it if you have some high end job that you need to live in a HCOL area, but I don't get why regular people with regular incomes would live somewhere that they're priced out of basic existence.


Well I live in the city in the Northeast so it's expensive af. A tiny house is over $550,000 right now. Rents are through the roof. They always have been but it keeps getting worse. I'd like to move somewhere cheaper but it's just not that easy. I WFH but the company I work for won't just let people move anywhere they want, you have to get special permission to move to another state. And there are people in my family with medical issues so I would feel like I'm betraying them by moving out of state. There may come a time relatively soon where they will need my help. So it's not as easy as just picking up and moving somewhere cheaper or I'd start looking into that.



zork20001 said:


> I am only saying purchasing a place to live should be your top priority, it goes under one of the basic needs of food, shelter, clothing. Shelter that can be taken away from you at any given time is not going to cut it long term. You are basically asking me to imagine making one bad decision after another bad decision in order to prevent me from ever being able to afford the important thing which is property. You also forgot to mention someone in their early 20’s leasing a brand new car helping to insure that they will never have money saved. You make your own opportunities in life and America has millions of opportunities, land and housing for anyone that does not want to spend their entire life living up their own ***.


I agree purchasing a place to live should be a priority if it's also a possibility. For many people it simply isn't a possibility. If you can't save for a down payment, you can't buy a house. There's no way of wiggling out of that hard fact.

Not sure what leasing a car has to do with anything, the person I know who I cited owns their car outright it's not a lease.

The United States has one of the least equal distributions of income and wealth, and therefore opportunities, in the entire post-industrial West. And as automation increases these inequalities will only get worse. The bottom 50% of Americans have very few opportunities to speak of. Upward mobility in the US is far lower than it is for our post-industrial peers. See the graphs below for details. In an economic system as unequal as the US is, having money and being born into favorable socioeconomic conditions maximizes your opportunity as well as your ability to exploit those opportunities. Conversely, being poor creates a dearth of opportunity. It's the old adage, it takes money to make money. That is especially true in the US. If you are born poor and have health issues you will probably stay poor.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

I see some nice houses here for like $250k, the issue is it would still be tight for me to buy that even if I put a big down payment. And not only that, after the crash that house would've sold for probably $120k at some point, who's to say it couldn't happen again, and then you're underwater without a job trying to make the payments. Working part time job somewhere if you could find one isn't going to cut it. That's what scares me with this wobbly economy. And now we have higher interest rates but house prices aren't budging where I am.

I do agree income inequality is an issues I do think the government needs to do more to ensure that people don't have to worry about not having a home if they genuinely aren't able to afford one. Something happens where you can't work or can't work a job that pays enough, what do you do? I think people should not have to worry that they won't have a place to sleep if something happens.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

^ Yep fair point, doesn't make sense to buy anything right now even if you have the cash, it's just going to depreciate in value. I think they will drop eventually it takes times for rising rates etc. to cycle through the economy and to be felt as lower prices. 

Honestly the entire way our economic system is structured is the issue. The game is rigged unfortunately.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

either/or said:


> ^ Yep fair point, doesn't make sense to buy anything right now even if you have the cash, it's just going to depreciate in value. I think they will drop eventually it takes times for rising rates etc. to cycle through the economy and to be felt as lower prices.
> 
> Honestly the entire way our economic system is structured is the issue. The game is rigged unfortunately.


I don't know that they will drop as far as they did last time, since that seemed to a much steeper drop than usual. But I do think there will be some kind of drop, and right now just seems to be _the worst_ time to buy that I've ever seen since I've been paying attention. Which admittedly, has only been a decade or so. But then again, I thought early 2020 would end up being bad but it's managed not to crash yet.

At least if prices do drop, even if you get a mortgage and the rate is high, you can (probably) refinance to a lower rate later on. With these high prices, you can't just refinance away the debt, you still owe whatever you buy it for. And also, with a higher price means your property taxes will be higher. Which like rent, can go up every year.


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## zork20001 (Aug 8, 2016)

I bought my house in 2008 for $183,000, but the prices had yet to drop that much when I bought it. I had just joined the Air Force reserve in 2005 and was on full time orders. I don't remember what I was making but I remember averaging it out one time around $18 an hour. I rented the cheapest 1 bedroom apartment I could find for $450 a month. I already had a fairly new 2002 Pontiac Sunfire I bought used for $8,000 and I was basically able to save 35,000
living in that apartment until I bought my house using that as a down payment. I could sell my house for around $480,000 now. Within the last 14 years I probably put in over $50,000 just for repairs and other remodeling, landscaping projects. I probably paid around $30,000 in interest and refinancing fees. Maybe around another $30,000 for insurance and property taxes. I wonder if I sold my home today if I would recoup every single living expense I paid out in the last 14 years and then some.


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

I was running some numbers today, and basing house prices now compared to what a similar house would have sold for in 2019-summer 2020, we would need a 60% drop in prices just to get the price similar again in my area. That doesn't include that interest rates have nearly doubled. A correction of 10-20% would not be nearly enough.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

shyguy07 said:


> I was running some numbers today, and basing house prices now compared to what a similar house would have sold for in 2019-summer 2020, we would need a 60% drop in prices just to get the price similar again in my area. That doesn't include that interest rates have nearly doubled. A correction of 10-20% would not be nearly enough.


Yah. But at least it gives us a little bit of a chance. It might be possible to buy something at a high rate then refinance later on when rates come back down. Honestly I think my only choice is to move to another state, somewhere cheap. My only concern with that I guess is the job market there if I end up getting laid off from my WFH job. Often the reason why home values are low in certain areas are because they lack good employment opportunities.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Well ****.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572669816166809601
Honestly, this is what it will feel like.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572387153027661825


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## shyguy07 (Mar 22, 2015)

either/or said:


> Yah. But at least it gives us a little bit of a chance. It might be possible to buy something at a high rate then refinance later on when rates come back down. Honestly I think my only choice is to move to another state, somewhere cheap. My only concern with that I guess is the job market there if I end up getting laid off from my WFH job. Often the reason why home values are low in certain areas are because they lack good employment opportunities.


Definitely. You see houses for sale where the prices are cheap but what you don't know is it's a rust town with no jobs other than working part time at Dollar General or the corner restaurant. Which may not pay the bills.

We shall see if prices are going down and when. I know some think it will crater next year, but I think that's far too soon, the housing prices move slow, and are quicker to go up than go down. Layoffs and pay cuts are also going to be an issue if we/as we head into a recession, and that will cause many not to want to buy (or be unable to). I think that's a major concern at this point, and could delay it being an opportunity to buy even further until those areas start to correct into a stronger economy/job market. Which hopefully one could get back into a steady/good paying job after layoffs in time before housing prices shot up again.

If you have a stable job, and you know for sure your job is stable then this could be a great opportunity to get into the house you want at a good price. And I'd rather buy into the bottom of the market with high interest rates than do the opposite.


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## Cletis (Oct 10, 2011)

Inflation hit a 40-year high today, virtually guaranteeing another big rate hike by The Fed next month. They will probably raise rates another 75 basis points but I think they should raise it twice as high and get this inflation under control.


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## either/or (Apr 27, 2020)

Cletis said:


> Inflation hit a 40-year high today, virtually guaranteeing another big rate hike by The Fed next month. They will probably raise rates another 75 basis points but I think they should raise it twice as high and get this inflation under control.


I honestly don't think that will work. I don't think it's really a problem monetary policy can fix. Or fiscal policy either. The days of cheap labor and cheap energy and cheap financing are over. It feels like the end of an era. It's the new global macro-economic reality. This isn't the result of the actions of any one politician, though a decade+ of consensus around stimulative policies didn't help. The pandemic and the war were just the catalysts. The new reality is being felt across the globe and I don't know that the same old fiscal tools will do anything to help this time 'round. I think we're all just going to have to adapt to the new reality.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

My wife and I got pre-approval for a loan to buy a second rental property last week. Our first one is just our last house we decided to keep and rent out when we bought our current house. We'd been saving up a down payment for awhile. Now with what we've been approved for we're looking for a duplex or a lower priced quadplex. Rates suck right now, but as long as the numbers make sense we can refinance down the road if/when rates go back down. So now we'll be looking and ready to make an offer if something promising pops up.

My eventual goal is owning some storage units. Or some other small business my wife could run at least at first. Either way I feel like with how late of a start I got in life I'm going to have to take some risks to get where I want to be financially. Going to start here and see how it goes. I'm both excited and nervous.


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