# "Talk to your doctor"



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Anyone who has actually had to deal with long term health problems ****ing hate this phrase "Talk to your doctor"? As if a visit to Dr Dumbass is going to magically make everything better, those ****s honestly can't solve anything. 

The phrase "talk to your doctor" has little to do with giving any actual advice, it is just a phrase people or legal teams spew out for legal reasons to absolve themselves of any responsibility. It is honestly just a myth that going to a doctor is going to magically solve any health issue you are experiencing.

"Have you been to see your doctor?" LOL, yeah, why just one doctor? How bout I have seen more doctors than you can possibly fathom and almost all of them are just as big of a useless piece of turd as the next one.

Another phrase that is very similar to the bs "talk to your doctor" is the phrase "trust your doctor", both are complete rubbish.


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## Kilgore Trout (Aug 10, 2014)

Doctors are useless.
They cannot cure anything. Diabetes, Blood pressure, AIDS, Cancer, etc. There is almost no cure for any diease. At best they can control it.
Last year i went to a psychiatrist and took some medicines for a while but didn't feel any better.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

Noca said:


> Anyone who has actually had to deal with long term health problems ****ing hate this phrase "Talk to your doctor"? As if a visit to Dr Dumbass is going to magically make everything better, those ****s honestly can't solve anything.
> 
> The phrase "talk to your doctor" has little to do with giving any actual advice, it is just a phrase people or legal teams spew out for legal reasons to absolve themselves of any responsibility. It is honestly just a myth that going to a doctor is going to magically solve any health issue you are experiencing.
> 
> ...


You should talk to your doctor about this concern; trust your doctor.


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## Teflondon (Dec 5, 2014)

Doctors are pretty worthless, yeah. I'm dealing with health issues and have had my fill of them to tell you the truth. If they can't fix you with antibiotics, painkillers, or some lame over the counter snake oil then you're screwed. You may as well be your own doctor if those are the only options available to you. It's a shame companies like Johnson & Johnson, Bayer, and Pfizer pretty much own the world, or we might actually have some real cures for things in this day and age.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Doctors can't cure hypochondriac.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

nubly said:


> Doctors can't cure hypochondriac.


Yeah all the toilets worth of diarrhea I **** out 3 to 5 times a day, the jugs full of nightly piss, the massive grocery bill worth of food that i eat, waking up 5 to 10 times a night every night for the past 18 months is all in my head *sarcasm*. Doctors do **** all, and shouldn't even be trusted to handle a box of crayons let alone a person's health.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

I don't trust them at all, if you delve into any sort of medical research, it becomes clear as hell that they only care about finding lucrative long term treatments to everything and they invest nothing in long term cures. There are plenty of things that could be cured pretty easily but no money in it. Was reading last night some 40 million people in the world have pig tapeworm cysts in their head causing seizures and sometimes death and all it takes is inoculating the pigs or cooking the meat all the way.. but no money in that. Nobody else thinks its a red flag they want 70% of the USA on statins for life?


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

The saying "talk to your doctor" used to carry more weight for me as a kid because we had a proper family doctor back then. The type that knew the family intimately because my mom was amongst the first regular patients he started seeing when he opened shop. Everyone in my family went to see him regularly until he closed his practice after his wife passed. Since then the mass influx of people coming here for jobs forced the health care system to change due to increased demand/needs of a larger population. Now it's all walk in clinics & it's tough to develop any kind of deep report with the doctors because you can tell they are in part trying to get you out the door quickly to manage the busy waiting rooms & half the people they see are strangers.

Anyway, I have a sporadically recurring health issue that I've asked about multiple times over the years & I still have no answers or even ideas related to it. I've done blood work a number of times but nothing comes up so I basically get told not to worry about it. I suspect down the road with age it'll bite me in the *** as such. Likewise, when my bro's health issues first started occurring he was constantly seeing different doctors & specialists but it took forever for them to figure out what was wrong with him. It really is a myth, this idea perpetuated that doctors know all, that if you see them they'll know what's wrong, how to treat it, & that you'll be alright despite how far medical science has progressed.

@Noca ~ Hopefully karma will shoot you a favour & help get your medical concerns sorted


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

You know what my favourite part is? When you see treatments or forms of exercise followed by "talk to your doctor". Chances are, your doctor has never ****ing heard of them, and doesn't know **** all to give an informed opinion anyway.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Just got a call from my doctor saying that one diagnosis I had brought up was confirmed with a lab test. I was able to correctly diagnose a physical illness which over a dozen doctor appointments from several different doctors could not think up on their own. 

If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. The previous Dr Dumbass had diagnosed me with interstitial urethritis when the correct diagnosis is NGU which can easily be treated with antibiotics. I have already started taking them. All that 18 months or more of needless suffering because Dr Dumbass is a terrible problem solver/ investigative skills.

My diagnosis that I had put forward regarding my gut will be tested as well with lab results which I should have done and get the results back in a week's time.

The moral of the story is don't trust your doctor to take care of your health problems. It wasn't just one doctor in question but nearly half a dozen.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Anybody else watch the show "Monsters Inside Me" on animal planet? Takes most of these genius doctors a half dozen visits and 5 years of misery to discover that 'rash' was really some major parasitic infestation. Half the patients lose sight/hearing/etc because they screw it up for so long.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

When I think about doctors.... they're good at setting bones and stitching wounds though


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## RLS0812 (Apr 10, 2013)

Over 40% of "heartburn" diagnoses are actually heart related problems ...


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

knightofdespair said:


> I don't trust them at all, if you delve into any sort of medical research,


Oh? What medical research have you delved into? What journals do you read? Lancet? Chest? NEJM? Or is it the supremely prestigious _Yahoo News_ that you're referring to maybe?



knightofdespair said:


> it becomes clear as hell that they only care about finding lucrative long term treatments to everything and they invest nothing in long term cures. There are plenty of things that could be cured pretty easily but no money in it.


I'm too tired to attempt the clever sarcasm route, so I'll just be direct, you don't know what you're talking about. Because you don't actually know anything about medical research, and because your "delving" doesn't go any further than a news article, you are presuming that the only research going on is pharmaceutical when there is way more out there. Things like the peds ophtho fellow examining the efficacy of surgical correction of strabismus and the rate at which there is a need to repeat surgical correction have nothing to do with fancy drugs just like most other research. As far as the expensive pharma, I am always at a loss as to what people exactly expect from private, for profit, companies - to tell their investors to go screw themselves because they're going to bankrupt themselves with charity work? There's a new, incredibly expensive, drug which is getting approval for treatment of a particular leukemia - it is super targeted and the science behind it is amazing, and the world is better off having it as an expensive drug today and a cheap drug in a couple of decades than not having it at all.



knightofdespair said:


> Was reading last night some 40 million people in the world have pig tapeworm cysts in their head causing seizures and sometimes death and all it takes is inoculating the pigs or cooking the meat all the way.. but no money in that. Nobody else thinks its a red flag they want 70% of the USA on statins for life?


And what does that have to do with doctors? In the first world neurocysticercosis isn't a major cause of seizures because, you know, we cook our meat, and it is detected and treated (at least in the US, don't know how often new onset seizures get MRI'd in socialized medical systems). In the third world there are tons of other medical problems that have everything to do with the nations being impoverished and lacking infrastructure. I fail to see how docs are to blame for this.



knightofdespair said:


> Anybody else watch the show "Monsters Inside Me" on animal planet? Takes most of these genius doctors a half dozen visits and 5 years of misery to discover that 'rash' was really some major parasitic infestation. Half the patients lose sight/hearing/etc because they screw it up for so long.


Common things present in rare ways far more commonly than rare things present in common ways. I have never seen a parasite outside of the common ones (pin worms, flees, scabies, etc.) and speaking to some infectious diseases PhDs who run a major hospital lab, they in their years of running said lab didn't have any memory of odd parasites ever being detected in their lab (though one of their kids had a fairly common parasite from Asia diagnosed). If there are a handful of cases of strange parasites in the US, it isn't reasonable to expect your bread and butter docs to think it is clear and obvious. Thing is, I'd imagine those parasite panels don't come cheap, so if you're having to do a thousand of them to pick up 1 parasite, that means you're charging the population 1000 times to pick up that one parasite - surprise(!) a lot of docs look out to minimize the uber high healthcare expenses that hit their patients. Also, with all that said, it is quite possible that the docs that missed those patients' parasites did drop the ball, but it isn't reasonable imo to assume they did so without actually seeing the medical records.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

lonelyjew said:


> ...


Long wall of text, I read a wide variety of things about medicine, particularly in relation to cancer and they pretty much let down the entire population every day. They aren't doing any better in the quality of life department, they simply prolong people's agony the last 10 years which really isn't the same thing. I originally was planning on going into the medical field but I didn't get too far before I got disgusted with what I saw and changed that very quickly. My gf before she died worked at placing doctors in temporary assignments to keep the clinics running, and the vast majority of them would throw a tantrum if they didn't get extremely high rates along with every single thing from travel to meals to their dry cleaning comped. Thousands of dollars a day and they can't even pay for their own meal or gas. They have a god complex and like Noca says, way too many people fall for it. Not me.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

knightofdespair said:


> Long wall of text,


I do that lol.



knightofdespair said:


> I read a wide variety of things about medicine, particularly in relation to cancer and they pretty much let down the entire population every day. They aren't doing any better in the quality of life department, they simply prolong people's agony the last 10 years which really isn't the same thing.


I'm sure this works fine on people who don't know what they're talking about, but when you say something like this to me, I have to ask exactly what sort of cancer you're talking about... There's a huge differences between something like a small cell carcinoma of the lung and a seminoma of the testicle. There's also a huge difference between cancers in the same organ, for instance papillary thyroid carcinoma is almost universally curable while anaplastic thyroid is more/less an untreatable death sentence. Further, there's a huge difference between a single type of cancer when it is stage I (local) vs. stage III-IV (metastatic). No offense, but if you understood the basics of cancer I wouldn't have to point this sort of thing out...

As far as failing the population, what are your expectations for success? Again, if you understand cancer, then I shouldn't have to explain to you how cancer is part of the human body, and that it isn't easy to find medications which are specific to the cancer without having an impact on the rest of the body. In some circumstances I might agree with you that the harms don't outweigh the benefits, but that's really something which needs to be explored on an individual basis (eg what type of cancer, at what stage, in what patient) and left up to the patient as to what course they want to take. In any case, I find it more than a bit presumptuous of you assuming extra time with family, even with side effects, is seemingly never worth it. Lastly, I do agree that a lot of chemo vs. cancer is still in the "dark ages" as it isn't targeted, but there has been an explosion of targeted therapy over the last couple of decades which is only going to grow and will promise better treatment with less side effects.



knightofdespair said:


> I originally was planning on going into the medical field but I didn't get too far before I got disgusted with what I saw and changed that very quickly. My gf before she died worked at placing doctors in temporary assignments to keep the clinics running, and the vast majority of them would throw a tantrum if they didn't get extremely high rates along with every single thing from travel to meals to their dry cleaning comped. Thousands of dollars a day and they can't even pay for their own meal or gas. They have a god complex and like Noca says, way too many people fall for it. Not me.


No, what you and Noca fall for is your incredible conformation bias. If your GF was working on placing people in rural clinics, or clinics which were short staffed because of other reasons which made docs just not want to work there then said clinics usually have to resort to providing a reason for docs to want to work there, which is usually $$$. Guess what kind of docs are attracted to those sorts of positions? My fiance has a friend who went to one of the best medical schools, and got into a highly competitive residency program, and then proceeded to work in the same hospital system for an incredibly low salary because said hospital system is attractive because of it's excellence, and attracts people for that reason rather than $$$.

Regardless, I find it amusing that someone such as yourself, who probably believes they aren't full of prejudice, would be throwing around such blanket judgements on a profession of about 1 million people. It is so bad to say all blacks are criminals, all Jews are greedy, all gays are pedophiles, etc. but as soon as it comes to a profession it's just fine to say all docs are greedy I guess. As I said above, you lurve your conformation bias and when you seek out examples to fit the mold you decided, you'll find them while conveniently ignoring everyone who doesn't fit.

Before you accuse me of the same, but in the positive, I'm actually very critical of the docs I've worked with and have been disappointed on numerous occasions. I've worked with a few docs who were, imo, incompetent and a few others who were driven by $$$ rather than patient well being, but they were in the minority. Most of the people I worked with cared about their patients and a lot of them did what they could to minimize costs for their patients.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

You don't have to explain anything, I'm fully aware of all that. In general I distrust their entire views on cancer, which are currently the leading cause of death and yet they've done absolutely nothing to fight the food industries, economic links, urban/suburban sprawl or do anything else to actually prevent people from getting cancers in the first place. There is a scientific reason for Cancer, Alzheimer's, Diabetes and they are often clueless about these and merely treat these for life with expensive and impractical methods that often cause worse long term effects than leaving it alone. When 70% of the country is obese or has high blood pressure, that is obviously not a genetic problem rather than an environmental, metabolic disaster that points a strong finger at how most of the country is forced to make their living.

Most of who she was placing was when a doctor needed a replacement to keep the clinic running while they dealt with family issues or were on vacation for an extended period of time. It was all over the place.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

knightofdespair said:


> You don't have to explain anything, I'm fully aware of all that. In general I distrust their entire views on cancer, which are currently the leading cause of death and yet they've done absolutely nothing to fight the food industries, economic links, urban/suburban sprawl or do anything else to actually prevent people from getting cancers in the first place. There is a scientific reason for Cancer, Alzheimer's, Diabetes and they are often clueless about these and merely treat these for life with expensive and impractical methods that often cause worse long term effects than leaving it alone. When 70% of the country is obese or has high blood pressure, that is obviously not a genetic problem rather than an environmental, metabolic disaster that points a strong finger at how most of the country is forced to make their living.


I don't understand how the blame falls on docs for this. Generally speaking, people know what is and isn't a healthy lifestyle and docs struggle to get their patients to follow a healthy lifestyle. There are people like my dad who were able to avoid medication for their diabetes because they pursue the diet/exercise that's first line treatment, but then there are the countless people I saw on my ophthalmology rotation who couldn't be bothered with doing these things, or even taking their medications, despite the fact that they were going blind because of their out of control diabetes.

As for the cancer, Alzheimer causes, while there there are some clear links with things like smoking, alcohol use, certain chemical exposures for cancer that's not what I think you're getting at and to what you're implying I'll only say that if you can have the hard proof the scientific community doesn't you should publish it as it would certainly get tons of attention. Really, cancer is far more a product of aging/random chance and it is as terrible as it is because it is something which is hard to treat - we can keep people from dying of infections and hold off deaths from heart issues so now cancer is what gets them. This follows for Alzheimer's which wouldn't have been seen back in the day because people just didn't live long enough to get it - and with Alzheimer's we don't even know exactly what the problem is and less yet about treatment. Given time these things will change, and there'll be yet another problem waiting to be solved.



knightofdespair said:


> Most of who she was placing was when a doctor needed a replacement to keep the clinic running while they dealt with family issues or were on vacation for an extended period of time. It was all over the place.


I would say my point still stands - the docs who go after that sort of work, rather than having an established practice where they have continuity with their own patients, are probably the sort who are inclined to be looking at $$$ aspect of the job more importantly. As I said, I've met these sort of docs and they are gross individuals. One of the worst stories I'd heard was a GI who had a 30 minute colonoscopy time so he could maximize the number of scopes he did, and would force anyone who's scope was taking longer to get a re-scope to finish the job - this is just above and beyond unethical. In my experience, which is admittedly limited, these sorts of people are the exception, and not the rule (they are far fewer than, say, the incompetent docs, who are fewer in number to the abrasive/not personable docs).


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

lonelyjew said:


> I would say my point still stands - the docs who go after that sort of work, rather than having an established practice where they have continuity with their own patients, are probably the sort who are inclined to be looking at $$$ aspect of the job more importantly. As I said, I've met these sort of docs and they are gross individuals. One of the worst stories I'd heard was a GI who had a 30 minute colonoscopy time so he could maximize the number of scopes he did, and would force anyone who's scope was taking longer to get a re-scope to finish the job - this is just above and beyond unethical. In my experience, which is admittedly limited, these sorts of people are the exception, and not the rule (they are far fewer than, say, the incompetent docs, who are fewer in number to the abrasive/not personable docs).


I think that's the bulk of it, medicine should be about helping people and long term enhancing of the future of all men, not just treating conditions that form as a consequence of known things like altering an entire nations diet to be completely GMO corn and wheat and corn fed meat flush with antibiotics. Diet is probably at least half the equation here, and I think most doctors who give a **** know it, but they still don't bother trying to change our terrible environment that causes all this illness because of all the lobbyists and cash in the system. You know how to treat cancer, you don't get it in the first place... That is what is wrong with our medical system.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> I think that's the bulk of it, medicine should be about helping people and long term enhancing of the future of all men, not just treating conditions that form as a consequence of known things like altering an entire nations diet to be completely GMO corn and wheat and corn fed meat flush with antibiotics. Diet is probably at least half the equation here, and I think most doctors who give a **** know it, but they still don't bother trying to change our terrible environment that causes all this illness because of all the lobbyists and cash in the system. You know how to treat cancer, you don't get it in the first place... That is what is wrong with our medical system.


Lol it's not because of the lobbyists and cash. It's because most of us are too lazy to change their lifestyle. Doctors will tell, and have been telling you since childhood, you what to eat or to not eat and if you don't listen then it's your fault


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

CowGoMoo said:


> Lol it's not because of the lobbyists and cash. It's because most of us are too lazy to change their lifestyle. Doctors will tell, and have been telling you since childhood, you what to eat or to not eat and if you don't listen then it's your fault


Wrong. The extent of a doctor's nutrtional advice is " eat healthy and exercise". Okay got it! So what does that mean? How do I go about doing that? Are you goingn to give any assistance or direct me to any relevant resources? Dr Dumbass replies "drink an Ensure" which is of course terrible advice as its just a bottle of sugary oil crap with some vitamins thrown in and no fibre whatsoever, not to mention it has no benefits of naturally occuring beneficial chemicals found in real food whatsoever.

Such terrible advice like this is just going to contribute to insulin resistance and the health problems Dr Dumbass should be trying to prevent. Doctors haven't the slightest clue regarding advice about nutrition or exercise.

Lets be honest, doctors in western medicine at least in North America have a terrible track record when it comes to prevention and treatment of chronic illnesses through lifestyle changes, nutrition and physical activity. They much rather throw a drug at you.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

I work in this field and I hate being a patient. hate it. The system is inefficient and frustrating and broken in a lot of ways. The problem is they focus on marketing and all that other BS over things like staffing correctly and training staff. Oh and the 90000 differently specialties that never talk to each other. The lack of a centralized medical record. I could go on but you get the gist. I accompany my family members and friends whenever they go to appointments/inpatient to make sure no one ****s up.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

diamondheart89 said:


> I work in this field and I hate being a patient. hate it. The system is inefficient and frustrating and broken in a lot of ways. The problem is they focus on marketing and all that other BS over things like staffing correctly and training staff. Oh and the 90000 differently specialties that never talk to each other. The lack of a centralized medical record. I could go on but you get the gist. I accompany my family members and friends whenever they go to appointments/inpatient to make sure no one ****s up.


Yes doctors and medical facilities talk a lot of talk but don't produce results anywhere near what their marketing and PR campaigns advertise. No doctor will ever bother to talk to another. If you have 5 different doctors you will be viewed as 5 different patients.

With computers and digital test results there is no excuse for not being able to find past test results for a patient. Instead Dr Dumbass runs the same test for the 8th time. The government here is the sole payee of these services yet they have no clear database of the health services available. There is only a database for physicians and surgeons and even then it may state another location than their actual clinic is located.

They have a 24 hour telephone health hotline in Ontario in which you are supposed to be able to talk to a nurse in order to divert people from needing to go to the ER. When you phone them, regardless the problem you are having their response is always the same "go to the ER". When you get there the doctors wonder why you went to the ER. Got a headache? "go to the ER".

They have another hotline for psychatric services which is supposed to be able to connect you to resources in your area and once again they have no idea what resources are available or where they are located. How does the government not bother to make a database of available health services? They must be aware of them all as they are the one paying the bills. It is ridiculous.

The system is set up for when patients records were still in file folders on paper scattered throughout the city.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

Noca said:


> Wrong. The extent of a doctor's nutrtional advice is " eat healthy and exercise". Okay got it! So what does that mean? How do I go about doing that? Are you goingn to give any assistance or direct me to any relevant resources? Dr Dumbass replies "drink an Ensure" which is of course terrible advice as its just a bottle of sugary oil crap with some vitamins thrown in and no fibre whatsoever, not to mention it has no benefits of naturally occuring beneficial chemicals found in real food whatsoever.
> 
> Such terrible advice like this is just going to contribute to insulin resistance and the health problems Dr Dumbass should be trying to prevent. Doctors haven't the slightest clue regarding advice about nutrition or exercise.
> 
> Lets be honest, doctors in western medicine at least in North America have a terrible track record when it comes to prevention and treatment of chronic illnesses through lifestyle changes, nutrition and physical activity. They much rather throw a drug at you.


Well you should get a different doctor then? All of my doctors have given nutritional plans when I ask for them. They are pretty solid too. Lots of veggies, fruit, nuts, berries, and fish. They tell me to stay away from red meat and to only eat complex carbs not simple ones. Only water too. Told me to exercise 30 minutes per day. Seems solid to me

"doctors in western medicine at least in North America have a terrible track record when it comes to prevention and treatment of chronic illnesses through lifestyle changes, nutrition and physical activity. "

That's not the doctors responsibility? That's the patients responsibility, why are you trying to deflect the blame. Typical western attitude


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

CowGoMoo said:


> Well you should get a different doctor then? All of my doctors have given nutritional plans when I ask for them. They are pretty solid too. Lots of veggies, fruit, nuts, berries, and fish. They tell me to stay away from red meat and to only eat complex carbs not simple ones. Only water too. Told me to exercise 30 minutes per day. Seems solid to me
> 
> "doctors in western medicine at least in North America have a terrible track record when it comes to prevention and treatment of chronic illnesses through lifestyle changes, nutrition and physical activity. "
> 
> That's not the doctors responsibility? That's the patients responsibility, why are you trying to deflect the blame. Typical western attitude


If you buy real food it rots in about 2 days, most people make about half of what they need to afford good quality food that isn't loaded with pesiticides, preservatives, sugar/salt/MSG, etc. In addition most countries are crowded as ****, it isn't possible to afford a house with any space and yard to go play in either. A 3 bedroom house on 1/5th acre of land around here goes for at least a half million. Our government and greedy leaders spent 50 years priming the public for unhealthy food, jobs, and housing and somehow the cure for it is giving 70% of the country antidepressants, statins, and chemo when they inevitably get cancer from known causes in 20 years.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> If you buy real food it rots in about 2 days, most people make about half of what they need to afford good quality food that isn't loaded with pesiticides, preservatives, sugar/salt/MSG, etc. In addition most countries are crowded as ****, it isn't possible to afford a house with any space and yard to go play in either. A 3 bedroom house on 1/5th acre of land around here goes for at least a half million. Our government and greedy leaders spent 50 years priming the public for unhealthy food, jobs, and housing and somehow the cure for it is giving 70% of the country antidepressants, statins, and chemo when they inevitably get cancer from known causes in 20 years.


I'm sorry but those are all excuses that can be overcome with just a bit dedication and knowledge. I agree things aren't ideal for most people, but your health is #1 . I make barely above minimun wage too but eat healthy and exercise. People just don't prioritize health in their lives, not even the rich


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

CowGoMoo said:


> I'm sorry but those are all excuses that can be overcome with just a bit dedication and knowledge. I agree things aren't ideal for most people, but your health is #1 . I make barely above minimun wage too but eat healthy and exercise. People just don't prioritize health in their lives, not even the rich


I'm talking about a macro level.. People don't as you say 'prioritize' because that means living completely opposite to 90% of cultural norms. We live in an environment where 70% of Americans are obese, most of them are pre diabetic or diabetic, most are either prescribed statins or doctors are itching to write it out for the kickbacks.. And not one of them really bothers to look at the whole country and say gee, when 3/4 of the country is sick and dying by their 40s maybe something is wrong.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Noca said:


> Wrong. The extent of a doctor's nutrtional advice is " eat healthy and exercise". Okay got it! So what does that mean? How do I go about doing that? Are you goingn to give any assistance or direct me to any relevant resources? Dr Dumbass replies "drink an Ensure" which is of course terrible advice as its just a bottle of sugary oil crap with some vitamins thrown in and no fibre whatsoever, not to mention it has no benefits of naturally occuring beneficial chemicals found in real food whatsoever.
> 
> Such terrible advice like this is just going to contribute to insulin resistance and the health problems Dr Dumbass should be trying to prevent. Doctors haven't the slightest clue regarding advice about nutrition or exercise.
> 
> Lets be honest, doctors in western medicine at least in North America have a terrible track record when it comes to prevention and treatment of chronic illnesses through lifestyle changes, nutrition and physical activity. They much rather throw a drug at you.


Most people won't change their lifestyle anyway. Everyone wants a magic pill to solve all their problems. I think big pharma is partially responsible for that. I hate that commercial with Larry the Cable Guy pushing Prilosec. I get reflux but all I have to do is eat more fruit and vegetables to treat it.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

scarpia said:


> Most people won't change their lifestyle anyway. Everyone wants a magic pill to solve all their problems. I think big pharma is partially responsible for that. I hate that commercial with Larry the Cable Guy pushing Prilosec. I get reflux but all I have to do is eat more fruit and vegetables to treat it.


Our current lifestyle was planned and set in stone before any of us were born. Our current cities, jobs, food quality, neighborhoods and many other factors are all things that have been hardened into place over the last 100 years and directly lead to most of the modern illnesses, but doctors make money off treating the symptoms, not curing the causes.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

scarpia said:


> Most people won't change their lifestyle anyway. Everyone wants a magic pill to solve all their problems. I think big pharma is partially responsible for that. I hate that commercial with Larry the Cable Guy pushing Prilosec. I get reflux but all I have to do is eat more fruit and vegetables to treat it.


I am and was willing to change my lifestyle. I asked my doctor and a dietician to help me overhaul my diet and instead of them actually putting any effort in the only response I got was "drink an ensure".

You do touch on one of my points though. If you have a problem, take a pill to mask the symptoms while the underlying cause is left untreated and you experience side effects and complications from taking the med. A Dr Dumbass's only solution is I guess take in this case a heartburn medication for life. Of course add to that every future health problem that you encounter which according to Dr Dumbass, is to take yet another med for life rather than doing anything to address the underlying cause.

Their acute disease focused approach to medicine is an absolute miserable failure when it comes to treating any chronic conditions or making any lasting improvements. With Dr Dumbass, unless its an infection that can be cured or something they can surgically removed, you can pretty much guarantee that you will NEVER get better by leaving your care in Dr Dumbass's hands. Your only options are to remain the same or get worse.

My point is outside of an acute setting like infection or trauma, Dr Dumbass uses a broken model of healthcare.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Noca said:


> My point is outside of an acute setting like infection or trauma, Dr Dumbass uses a broken model of healthcare.


It amazes me how many people cling to the busted framework we have, despite the dismal results. Generally these are the same folks wanting to dismantle a minimum wage, unemployment insurance, welfare in general, and slash taxes on the rich to nothing at all.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> I'm talking about a macro level.. People don't as you say 'prioritize' because that means living completely opposite to 90% of cultural norms. We live in an environment where 70% of Americans are obese, most of them are pre diabetic or diabetic, most are either prescribed statins or doctors are itching to write it out for the kickbacks.. And not one of them really bothers to look at the whole country and say gee, when 3/4 of the country is sick and dying by their 40s maybe something is wrong.


Well your life isn't at a macro level, and you have to take responsibility for it yourself. That cultural norms stuff is a cop out that the weak minded use. There is no such thing as a dominant cultural norm that sweeps people under the rug into obesity, and if there is then join fitness/health/sports/bodybuilding/diet or whatever culture. The problem is that people have no dedication


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

CowGoMoo said:


> Well your life isn't at a macro level, and you have to take responsibility for it yourself. That cultural norms stuff is a cop out that the weak minded use. There is no such thing as a dominant cultural norm that sweeps people under the rug into obesity, and if there is then join fitness/health/sports/bodybuilding/diet or whatever culture. The problem is that people have no dedication


When a problem affects 3/4 of the population it is ENTIRELY a macro-level issue.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> When a problem affects 3/4 of the population it is ENTIRELY a macro-level issue.


Nobody's saying that obesity isn't an issue but your life is not macro-level issue lmao. It starts with the individual, there is no way in hell that whatever propaganda campaign or doctors advice is gonna convince everyone to get off their lazy fat *** and exercise, to stop eating crappy food.

How can they even do that when a bunch of fatties are gonna cry "they're fat shaming us, our jelly rolls are so beautiful"

Don't you get it?? People don't want to change without putting in the hard work

Pretty much everyone knows that to lose weight you have to eat less and exercise more

Yet they don't do it.. And blame the doctors for their laziness


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

CowGoMoo said:


> Nobody's saying that obesity isn't an issue but your life is not macro-level issue lmao. It starts with the individual, there is no way in hell that whatever propaganda campaign or doctors advice is gonna convince everyone to get off their lazy fat *** and exercise, to stop eating crappy food.
> 
> How can they even do that when a bunch of fatties are gonna cry "they're fat shaming us, our jelly rolls are so beautiful"
> 
> ...


So in your mind all that there is to quitting smoking is to simply "quit smoking". There couldn't possibly be anything more to offer then to say "just stop smoking". Interesting.

I am sorry but life is actually more complicated than just eat less and lose weight. How does one accomplish that? What barriers(behavioural, logistical, psychological, financial) might one encounter when attempting to lose weight and how can I overcome them. What advice do you have to maximize my chances for success?

A lot of people trying to lose weight actually do listen to your simple minded advice and simply starve themselves, thereby worsening their situation and pretty shutting off their metabolism further sabotaging any chance for success. I am sorry to break it to you, but there is more to nutrition than simply calories in calories out. I honestly cannot stand people who give out such simple minded bs worthless advice.

"Stop eating crap food". The average person doesn't even know what that is. 95% of the grocery is probably crap food. A person seeking to better their health comes to Dr Dumbass for advice but "eat healthy" isn't going to ****ing help anyone. Giving vague answers is absolute laziness. Creating a clear plan of action and giving assistance along the way for any obstacles a patient encounters would actually require Dr Dumbass to do some actual work.

But lets face it, Dr Dumbass would rather throw pills at you to treat the symptoms of the health conditions he/she is too lazy to address properly. Why is this? Because Dr Dumbass gets paid the same regardless if he/she puts any effort or not. Most Dr Dumbasses will take the easy route, because they honestly don't give a **** about their patients. Some of the newer doctors aren't as indifferent to whether you stay sick for life or not than the doctors who have been around, so they aren't as bad. Regardless both were taught a broken model of medicine.

You might as well just say "well step one, be healthy" That's it. I wonder if you were to organize a study, what success rate you would have with your patients with your approach.

Instead of the failed model of care that doctors currently use, if they adopted what is known as a "functional medicine" you might actually see better results, patients actually rehabilitated from whatever health ailments they are experiencing back into a state of well being instead of maintaining the status quo of sickness for the rest of their life.

https://www.functionalmedicine.org/What_is_Functional_Medicine/AboutFM/


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

Noca said:


> So in your mind all that there is to quitting smoking is to simply "quit smoking". There couldn't possibly be anything more to offer then to say "just stop smoking". Interesting.
> 
> I am sorry but life is actually more complicated than just eat less and lose weight. How does one accomplish that? What barriers(behavioural, logistical, psychological, financial) might one encounter when attempting to lose weight and how can I overcome them. What advice do you have to maximize my chances for success?
> 
> ...


Alright stop with the insults first of all cause nothing pisses me off more than a tough guy behind a computer screen who gets a superiority complex when he knows he'd never say this to me to my face. Coward

Calories in calories out, yes it literally is that simple.

Find out what you burn in a day and eat less than that. Throw in a workout, any workout every day. For diet use common ****ing sense and stop eating Mcdonalds. Everyone knows what is healthy, stop making excuses for them. Who in their right mind thinks that fruits, veggies, complex carbs, fish, nuts and berries are not healthy???

Doctors give you health plans. Why are you so ungrateful for doctors, are you fat or something and think the doctors let you down??? You literally just ASK him for a nutritional outline and he will give it to you!

They rely on pills and medication because people are too ****ing dense to listen and make stupid excuses

A doctor can't do anything but give you the info which he does from the time you are a child

It's not a doctors fault that you're fat, it's yours and your parents


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Noca said:


> So in your mind all that there is to quitting smoking is to simply "quit smoking". There couldn't possibly be anything more to offer then to say "just stop smoking". Interesting.
> 
> I am sorry but life is actually more complicated than just eat less and lose weight. How does one accomplish that? What barriers(behavioural, logistical, psychological, financial) might one encounter when attempting to lose weight and how can I overcome them. What advice do you have to maximize my chances for success?
> 
> ...


There is no magic formula for quitting bad habits or breaking addictions. Neither magic pills or 'functional medicine'. There are many strategies and most people can find one that works. As for diet it's pretty well established that you want to eat foods that are less processed - fresh fruit and vegetables. Whole grains too.



Noca said:


> Instead of the failed model of care that doctors currently use, if they adopted what is known as a "functional medicine" you might actually see better results, patients actually rehabilitated from whatever health ailments they are experiencing back into a state of well being instead of maintaining the status quo of sickness for the rest of their life.
> 
> https://www.functionalmedicine.org/What_is_Functional_Medicine/AboutFM/


I'm not so sure about this Functional medicine.:http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/quackademia-update-2014/


> *Quackademia update: The Cleveland Clinic, George Washington University, and the continued infiltration of quackery into medical academia*
> 
> Posted by David Gorski on September 29, 2014
> Quackery has been steadily infiltrating academic medicine for at least two decades now in the form of what was once called "complementary and alternative medicine" but is now more commonly referred to as "integrative medicine." Of course, as I've written many times before, what "integrative medicine" really means is the "integration" of quackery with science- and evidence-based medicine, to the detriment of SBM. As my good bud Mark Crislip once put it, "integrating" cow pie with apple pie does not improve the apple pie. Yet that is what's going on in medical academia these days-with a vengeance. It's a phenomenon that I like to call quackademic medicine, something that's fast turning medical academia into medical quackademia.





> Functional Medicine - What is it?
> After extensive searching and examination, my answer is still - only the originators of "FM" know. Or, at least one must assume they know, because so far as I can see, I certainly see nothing that distinguishes "FM" from other descriptions of sectarian and "Complementary/Alternative Medicine" practices. A difference may lie in the advocates' assumptions to have found some "imbalance" of body chemistry or physiology before applying one or more unproved methods or substances. From what I could determine, the "imbalance" or dysfunction is usually either imaginary or at least presumptive. And the general principles are so poorly defined as to allow practioners vast leeway to apply a host of unproven methods.
> I figured there would be several ways to find out. One would be to read FM's material - mainly what "they" placed on the Internet. Another would be to enter the system and find out as a patient or as a prospective practitioner what it is that "FM" claims to be. The third would be to listen to a practitioner or advocate on tape, disk, radio, etc.


 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/fuctional-medicine-fm-what-is-it/


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

CowGoMoo said:


> Nobody's saying that obesity isn't an issue but your life is not macro-level issue lmao. It starts with the individual, there is no way in hell that whatever propaganda campaign or doctors advice is gonna convince everyone to get off their lazy fat *** and exercise, to stop eating crappy food.
> 
> How can they even do that when a bunch of fatties are gonna cry "they're fat shaming us, our jelly rolls are so beautiful"
> 
> ...


:yes The fat acceptance movement does more harm than good. There is nothing right about being overweight. It comes with so many health problems that can turn into chronic conditions.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

nubly said:


> :yes The fat acceptance movement does more harm than good. There is nothing right about being overweight. It comes with so many health problems that can turn into chronic conditions.


It has nothing to do with wheat and corn being massively subsidized and ADDED to every single product out there for sale. It has nothing to do with MSG/similar chemicals added to everything from cookies to crackers to bread to make it more addictive. It has nothing to do with BPA and other container chemicals that **** with hormones and screw up the entire metabolic cycle? It has nothing to do with mercury and other pollutants that bind and disrupt insulin making half the population pre/full diabetic? How about the fact a healthy salad with 10 different fresh ingredients costs $35 to make while a pack of Twinkies is (well was) 3 for a buck?

You guys are completely missing my point, as in going 9 miles out of your way to avoid the obvious - everything from the urban sprawl to general distrust of our neighbors forces most people to not feel safe to go out, to not be able to afford a good house, to not have time left over to go work out, to not have any prioritization of these things in general. 350,000 years of evolution driving every one of our finely honed urges, needs, and wants, and yet somehow 3/4 of the population is fat, sick, and dying of stuff that was all fully preventable. It is a design problem, if you built an engine that failed 3 out of 4 times it is completely illogical to blame it on the driver, but that is exactly what you are saying.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

knightofdespair said:


> It has nothing to do with wheat and corn being massively subsidized and ADDED to every single product out there for sale. It has nothing to do with MSG/similar chemicals added to everything from cookies to crackers to bread to make it more addictive. It has nothing to do with BPA and other container chemicals that **** with hormones and screw up the entire metabolic cycle? It has nothing to do with mercury and other pollutants that bind and disrupt insulin making half the population pre/full diabetic? How about the fact a healthy salad with 10 different fresh ingredients costs $35 to make while a pack of Twinkies is (well was) 3 for a buck?
> 
> You guys are completely missing my point, as in going 9 miles out of your way to avoid the obvious - everything from the urban sprawl to general distrust of our neighbors forces most people to not feel safe to go out, to not be able to afford a good house, to not have time left over to go work out, to not have any prioritization of these things in general. 350,000 years of evolution driving every one of our finely honed urges, needs, and wants, and yet somehow 3/4 of the population is fat, sick, and dying of stuff that was all fully preventable. It is a design problem, if you built an engine that failed 3 out of 4 times it is completely illogical to blame it on the driver, but that is exactly what you are saying.


Healthy food isn't expensive. Brown rice, whole wheat, poultry, fish, yams, veggie, etc. The problem is that people don't know that much about nutrition.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Most people know, they just don't want to eat healthy. Some live in inner city 'food deserts' where they can't buy inexpensive healthy food. But addictive junk food? I doubt it.


> The term "food addiction" was created by the media and some sufferers to better explain certain behaviors, and more research is needed to support adding the term as a formal diagnostic category


Dr. Suzanne Dickson http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/812650



knightofdespair said:


> You guys are completely missing my point, as in going 9 miles out of your way to avoid the obvious - everything from the urban sprawl to general distrust of our neighbors forces most people to not feel safe to go out, to not be able to afford a good house, to not have time left over to go work out, to not have any prioritization of these things in general. 350,000 years of evolution driving every one of our finely honed urges, needs, and wants, and yet somehow 3/4 of the population is fat, sick, and dying of stuff that was all fully preventable. It is a design problem, if you built an engine that failed 3 out of 4 times it is completely illogical to blame it on the driver, but that is exactly what you are saying.


People feel safe to go out in most areas. But people are naturally lazy and being fat now is not as hard as it used to be. In the old days when people had physically demanding jobs they couldn't be fat or they couldn't work. People are living longer than ever now in spite of the obesity epidemic. The engine is the same as it ever was- it just wasn't designed to function in such fuel rich conditions.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

scarpia said:


> People feel safe to go out in most areas. But people are naturally lazy and being fat now is not as hard as it used to be. In the old days when people had physically demanding jobs they couldn't be fat or they couldn't work. People are living longer than ever now in spite of the obesity epidemic. The engine is the same as it ever was- it just wasn't designed to function in such fuel rich conditions.


9 billion by 2050, and every factor that makes people sick will probably get worse. Seems like doctors should be at the forefront of change if they really gave a ****. Feeling 'safe' is not the same as feeling happy/comfortable to go outside. I don't feel like I'm probably going to get raped on my way out past the dumpster, but either way there's half a dozen strangers and their dogs out there ****ting on the grass and in my way, them simply _*existing*_ makes me not want to go out and deal with it.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

I just want to try some meds. I would like to know that feeling without anxiety.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

nubly said:


> Healthy food isn't expensive. Brown rice, whole wheat, poultry, fish, yams, veggie, etc. The problem is that people don't know that much about nutrition.


eating out healthy costs more than eating out unhealthy which costs more than making your own healthy meals which costs more than making your own unhealthy meals. Calorie per calorie, unhealthy food costs less.

I agree most people don't know about nutrtion. Some actually go to their doctor to get advice for that issue so they can live a healthier life but the doctor's also know nothing about nutrtion and most of the time their advice is extremely vague and of no help to anyone. It is usually eat healthy and exercise, they really don't give any clear plan of action and they don't really seem to have any desire to do so. Throwing meds at you is much easier.

For instance I have bad case of IBS to where it has caused me chronic fatigue, chronic lack of concentration, I cannot gain weight no matter how much I eat because my digestive system is so inflammed that it won't absorb nutrients properly. My blood sugar is also unstable as a result.

I beg Dr Dumbass to help create a treatment plan to reverse this problem but he is just too ****ing lazy/stupid. Instead he just tells me it is something I will just have deal with for the rest of my life. He throws proton pump inhibitors garbage at me, expects me to take lopiramide and simethicone daily I guess. He throws antidepressant and other psych drugs at me for the to treat the depression rather than treat the underlying issue that is making me depressed but that would require effort on his part. Tired, can't concentrate? Take stimulants. None of Dr Dumbasses treatments address the underlying cause.

With Dr Dumbass in charge I have about a 0% chance to EVER get well and to have my IBS in remission. It absolutely does not need to be a life sentence, but if Dr Dumbass had his way then definitely would have no hope of ever getting better.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Noca said:


> Some actually go to their doctor to get advice for that issue so they can live a healthier life but the doctor's also know nothing about nutrtion and most of the time their advice is extremely vague and of no help to anyone. It is usually eat healthy and exercise, they really don't give any clear plan of action and they don't really seem to have any desire to do so. Throwing meds at you is much easier.


The doctors entire education is based off whatever the FDA or drug companies tell them. They don't know jack about nutrition because the quacks never bothered to learn how it relates to the body. And again there is both a conflict of interest in actually fixing you - less kickbacks from the drug companies, and also the reality that for most people *it requires them to live as a polar opposite to 95% of the population*, making it incredibly hard on a mental, financial, and relationship viewpoint. Like I've mentioned about 40 times, when 3/4 of the population is getting mowed down by cancer, heart disease, diabetes, alzheimers then there is a systemic cause that won't ever go away until someone actually addresses the _infrastructure_ problems causing it.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

knightofdespair said:


> The doctors entire education is based off whatever the FDA or drug companies tell them. They don't know jack about nutrition because the quacks never bothered to learn how it relates to the body. And again there is both a conflict of interest in actually fixing you - less kickbacks from the drug companies, and also the reality that for most people *it requires them to live as a polar opposite to 95% of the population*, making it incredibly hard on a mental, financial, and relationship viewpoint. Like I've mentioned about 40 times, when 3/4 of the population is getting mowed down by cancer, heart disease, diabetes, alzheimers then there is a systemic cause that won't ever go away until someone actually addresses the _infrastructure_ problems causing it.


I don't believe the doctors here in Canada get any sort of kickbacks other than stupid pens or sticky pads that say "Pfizer" on them, and maybe the odd drug coupons for their patients. I don't believe that is their motivation whatsoever here. Doctors certainly do have a problem as they learn about medications usually solely from the drug company selling it.

The problem isn't that they are motivated by money to do so, the problem is that the typical doctor is not smart enough to realize that is a conflict of interest, that whatever information the drug reps tell them is heavily biased. They don't realize it is humanly impossible for someone to be unbiased about their own product that they are marketing, they don't realize the need to educate themselves from third party sources. The biases begin long before any drug rep arrives in their doctor's office, it begins back in medical school. Many medical textbooks regarding medication are written or funded by the pharmaceutical companies. Their over reliance on pharmaceuticals begins in medical school.

Creating a comprehensive treatment plan that includes behavioural modifications, specifically outlined nutritional modifications, psychological support, etc requires more work. Doctors in North America are paid using an outdated fee-for-service model. They get paid the same whether they just write a prescription for a drug, or if they actually put in effort and work to create a proper treatment plan designed specifically for the patient. Newer doctors might care more about whether or not their patients actually ever recover from whatever ails them, but as doctors get older, they become indifferent. You become just another number, and they honestly don't give a **** whether you ever recover or if you just continue to stay sick, maintain the status quo of mediocrity, keep taking drugs, and keep having to see doctors for the same issue for the rest of your life.

Their approach to chronic diseases is clearly a miserable failure, especially their approach to nutrition. You cannot claim that whatever approach doctors are currently using in the US is working because 2/3 of the population is obese. So if we know that Dr Dumbass's approach to medicine is a failure when it comes to medical problems that aren't acute(obesity isn't an acute illness), the only issue is to decide what to do instead. Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is ridiculous.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Noca said:


> Their approach to chronic diseases is clearly a miserable failure, especially their approach to nutrition. You cannot claim that whatever approach doctors are currently using in the US is working because 2/3 of the population is obese. So if we know that Dr Dumbass's approach to medicine is a failure when it comes to medical problems that aren't acute(obesity isn't an acute illness), the only issue is to decide what to do instead. Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is ridiculous.


To be fair, by the time most patients arrive at the doctor for some chronic problem, they have been living in an unhealthy environment for multiple decades. There is nothing really the doctor can do at that point to fix the problems caused by tiny housing, overcrowded streets, poisonous food, or the chronic stress our modern world saturates us in nonstop every day of our lives. Few doctors want to put their reputation or degree on the line to protest too loudly against greed so they just write up something to help us cope... But yeah when 2/3 or more are obese, etc it is not responsible as a healthcare professional to blame the patients for living the way society set them up to live.


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## H i (Nov 23, 2013)

There is some truth to what you are complaining of although people who lack the expertise on your issue would have little else to suggest to you. I could only imagine people saying "do your own research" or "go see a doctor" What else would you expect them to say in all honesty? I will agree trust your doctor is a very ignorant statement. Hear your doctor out and pick your best option based on what you are feeling. Most people will know their body better than their doctor although that is not in every case. From my personal experiences I research / will go to a doctor / decide for myself what is best.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Noca said:


> For instance I have bad case of IBS to where it has caused me chronic fatigue, chronic lack of concentration, I cannot gain weight no matter how much I eat because my digestive system is so inflammed that it won't absorb nutrients properly. My blood sugar is also unstable as a result.
> 
> I beg Dr Dumbass to help create a treatment plan to reverse this problem but he is just too ****ing lazy/stupid.


From Web MD: figuring out which foods cause the symptoms is a highly individual process.

It's that way for a lot of things. I get acne from foods/supplements with steraric acid. Why? No one knows. I had to figure it out myself. It's not a common sensitivity either. Allergies are my big problem. Most doctors and especially dentists don't take them seriously at all. I was just a few days from surgery when I found out they were going to use an acrylic suture on me even though I told them I was allergic to acrylic.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

scarpia said:


> even though I told them I was allergic to acrylic.


Ha, so yeah even something you explicitly told them they can't remember, how many intuitive things are they missing that they should know that you don't know they are missing as well? I think doctors are good for 2 things basically - surgery (if actually is needed which is a whole different topic), and prescribing antibiotics, the rest is a crapshoot that usually does more harm than good.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

scarpia said:


> There is no magic formula for quitting bad habits or breaking addictions. Neither magic pills or 'functional medicine'. There are many strategies and most people can find one that works. As for diet it's pretty well established that you want to eat foods that are less processed - fresh fruit and vegetables. Whole grains too.
> 
> I'm not so sure about this Functional medicine.:http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/quackademia-update-2014/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/fuctional-medicine-fm-what-is-it/


You read stuff by Dr. Gorski? You're my new favorite Scarpia . He's actually a professor at my school. If you haven't been turned onto his anti-quack blog, it's awesome: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/



knightofdespair said:


> The doctors entire education is based off whatever the FDA or drug companies tell them. They don't know jack about nutrition because the quacks never bothered to learn how it relates to the body.


So the course I had on nutrition during my first year of medical school was just a several months long dream then? Why post this blatant lie?

And again there is both a conflict of interest in actually fixing you - less kickbacks from the drug companies, and also the reality that for most people *it requires them to live as a polar opposite to 95% of the population*, making it incredibly hard on a mental, financial, and relationship viewpoint.



knightofdespair said:


> Like I've mentioned about 40 times, when 3/4 of the population is getting mowed down by cancer, heart disease, diabetes, alzheimers then there is a systemic cause that won't ever go away until someone actually addresses the _infrastructure_ problems causing it.


As opposed to die of what? People used to die of infectious diseases - we've largely effectively ended that era. People then died of heart issues which we've learned to treat very effectively making it less of a problem. These two things have greatly increased life span, and cancer and Alzheimer's are products of that. People are going to die of something, at some point - the notion you're implying, that docs have failed the population because people continue to die, is so absurd I am at a loss as to why I have to point this out.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

lonelyjew said:


> As opposed to die of what? People used to die of infectious diseases - we've largely effectively ended that era. People then died of heart issues which we've learned to treat very effectively making it less of a problem. These two things have greatly increased life span, and cancer and Alzheimer's are products of that. People are going to die of something, at some point - the notion you're implying, that docs have failed the population because people continue to die, is so absurd I am at a loss as to why I have to point this out.


Indeed we will all have to die of something at some point, that is true. We do on average live longer, again true. But how many of those years are spent in sickness? Being alive and just not being dead are two different things. Quality of life matters, not just being artificially kept alive by tubes, or a toxic of soup countless daily pharmaceuticals and having one surgery after another. Surely just because you go to medical school does not mean you are oblivious to this?

So I mean according to a doctor's point of view, would my healthcare treatment be considered a "success"? I mean I am still alive, my heart is still beating. However I have been completely unable to function for nearly the last decade and have spent well over half that time, nearly 2/3s in sickness. Does this even cross a doctor's mind as being a problem? Or do all they care about is keeping you alive, not giving a **** about anything else?


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

Noca said:


> Indeed we will all have to die of something at some point, that is true. We do on average live longer, again true. But how many of those years are spent in sickness? Being alive and just not being dead are two different things. Quality of life matters, not just being artificially kept alive by tubes, or a toxic of soup countless daily pharmaceuticals and having one surgery after another. Surely just because you go to medical school does not mean you are oblivious to this?


In that little bit you're not just presuming a hell of a lot about me and my views but everyone who's life you arbitrarily have deemed not worth living... Unlike you, I'll leave it up to the individual on whether they want to be "kept alive" and how aggressively they want that life to be preserved. You don't see the irony in your spewing of hate against paternalistic aspects of medicine while you're seemingly advocating this extremely paternalistic view? Wow.

Regardless, I don't know how many healthy elderly you see, but they're out there and they're out there in larger numbers nowadays than ever and able to retain far more functionality, far longer, because of advances in medicine. Not every 80, 90, or even 100 year old is trapped in a home, stuck in a permanent state of confusion/pain.



Noca said:


> So I mean according to a doctor's point of view, would my healthcare treatment be considered a "success"? I mean I am still alive, my heart is still beating. However I have been completely unable to function for nearly the last decade and have spent well over half that time, nearly 2/3s in sickness. Does this even cross a doctor's mind as being a problem? Or do all they care about is keeping you alive, not giving a **** about anything else?


Again, you're presuming a hell of a lot both on my views, which you don't know. I didn't have some hidden meaning to my post, I only wanted to point out that, as you recognized above, life is finite and we'll all die of something. Apparently docs to you guys are failures because we can't fix everything possible, instantly, and make you immortal, because we use meds, because the laziness/lack of personal self responsibility of patients is our fault, and because despite extending lives and improving life quality it's not ok to do so if we use evil pharma and "artificial" treatments (WTF defines artificial exactly anyways; maybe we shouldn't use artificial antiretrovirals for HIV).

There is absolutely no winning with you because you have a chip on the shoulder the size of a mountain and that's the exact reason I've been avoiding responding to any of your posts on this subject. I've learned through other ranting threads and posts you've made that as much as my argumentative *** would love to take you to task on some of the garbage that spews from your keyboard and onto this forum, there is zero point as doing so because there's zero point in your budging from your extremely biased viewpoint. Yes, you've had some **** experiences, congrats, have a cookie, get a shiny sticker, and get over it. You're one person and while there's certainly a lot to learn from your experiences, their negativity hardly means that every one of the millions of docs out there deserve the blanket insults you want to childishly hurl.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

lonelyjew said:


> Apparently docs to you guys are failures because we can't fix everything possible, instantly, and make you immortal


Naw you missed both of our points entirely.. Most of the improvements you mentioned have almost nothing to do with doctors at all, they are more to do with changes in sanitation and water treatment. I doubt you will change your mind unless you get seriously ill and actually need to see some other doctor yourself. People aren't any lazier than they used to be, our modern lifestyle makes going out and doing things a gigantic pain in the *** and so the natural human psyche avoids it. It is an engineering problem on a national/international scale. Your entire attitude makes it clear why bother trying to even treat illness, rather than finding cures. Lets just accept 2/3 of the country will get diabetes, that's normal right? Lets just accept half the population will develop cancer, that's normal too. Lets let 2/3 develop heart disease while we keep throwing millions at farmers to grow nothing but corn and never question why.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

knightofdespair said:


> Naw you missed both of our points entirely.. Most of the improvements you mentioned have almost nothing to do with doctors at all, they are more to do with changes in sanitation and water treatment.


This is absurd. If you want to ignore the role of medicine in public health and then pretend that I'm the one who's being unreasonable then, well, I hope you love irony.



knightofdespair said:


> I doubt you will change your mind unless you get seriously ill and actually need to see some other doctor yourself. People aren't any lazier than they used to be, our modern lifestyle makes going out and doing things a gigantic pain in the *** and so the natural human psyche avoids it. It is an engineering problem on a national/international scale. Your entire attitude makes it clear why bother trying to even treat illness, rather than finding cures. Lets just accept 2/3 of the country will get diabetes, that's normal right? Lets just accept half the population will develop cancer, that's normal too. Lets let 2/3 develop heart disease while we keep throwing millions at farmers to grow nothing but corn and never question why.


This to is absurd. There are countless docs working hard to find new treatments and improve old ones for the betterment of patients. You act as if we can simply cure cancer - we can't, or it's in our power to stop all heart disease and diabetes - we can't. More importantly, we can't cure death, and I (and seemingly not you?) accept that all my future patients, and I, will die one day, of something. This is not an unhealthy attitude, it's called living in reality. Furthermore, part of being a good practitioner is applying reality to patient care; I'm not doing my patient a favor by deluding myself into believing they'll cure their diabetes without drugs when they've already failed to diet/exercise despite my advising them to do so. You might disagree, but your fantasy of everyone caring enough to put in the effort necessary to live a healthy lifestyle isn't worth my patients ruining their kidneys, eyes, hearts, brains, and blood vessels.

Lastly, what the hell am I supposed to do about corn subsidies exactly, and why the hell is the onus on me to do something about it, and not on you. Do you think I have free time just oozing out of my pores? Do you think I have the unlimited funds to go toe to toe with the very well funded corn lobby? No? Then stop acting as if that's some sort of legitimate point you're making. Nobody is happy about those sorts of policies besides the farmers, lobbyists, and politicians they benefit so where exactly do you get off on blaming me for them.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

OooH I got to see the Dr Dumbass at the ER tonight. 4 and a half hours of non stop severe stabbing stomach pain, longest duration of this intense stomach pain I've ever experienced before. After it just started to subside after waiting there ignored in the ER for hours (from 7 to 9 on the pain scale rating down to 3) thats when the nurse decides to pop into the room and say "oh I'm here to give you your pain medication". Thanks a lot. Then another half hour passes and Dr Dumbass comes in. She checks me out, says yeah yeah there is nothing that requires surgery, your spleen isn't enlarged etc etc. Then proceeds to be a dumb ****ing **** when she tells me that eating 5000 calories and not gaining weight is normal, feeling like you just took an elephant tranquilizer after a half a glass of orange juice is normal, going from 133lb to 125.5 in 2 weeks, lowest I've been in 2 years is normal, and to top it all off, Dr Dumb**** says "oh well there are lots of people who would feel great to be like you". Oh thankyou Dr Dumb**** for completely marginalizing the suffering I have gone through for the past decade due to incompetent idiots who think just like you.

See if Dr Dumbass said, "I don't know what is wrong with you", that would be within reason. But when Dr Dumbass is so retarded that he/she cannot even see what any ordinary person would have the intelligence to understand, that what is going on with my gut and digestive system isn't normal, well that is when they earn the title of "Dr Dumbass". If you do not even recognize a problem exists then you don't have any chance of fixing it, there in lies the reason why I end up in the ER to begin with.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

People think doctors are like Gods, but they're more like cars.. The first one or two were kind of cool, they made some progress and no matter what direction they went, it was better than us walking saps. Now like driving - there are millions out there going every which way, colliding, talking on their phones, driving around in circles, and generally nobody gets anywhere. Soon like driving, technology will take over and surgeons will be obsolete, medicine will be tested and synthesized based on our own body chemistry, and the profit motive will largely disappear as the job field collapses on their egotistical asses. If we could just leap to 2100, both of these jokes of current life will be vastly improved.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Noca said:


> OooH I got to see the Dr Dumbass at the ER tonight. 4 and a half hours of non stop severe stabbing stomach pain, longest duration of this intense stomach pain I've ever experienced before. After it just started to subside after waiting there ignored in the ER for hours (from 7 to 9 on the pain scale rating down to 3) thats when the nurse decides to pop into the room and say "oh I'm here to give you your pain medication". Thanks a lot. Then another half hour passes and Dr Dumbass comes in. She checks me out, says yeah yeah there is nothing that requires surgery, your spleen isn't enlarged etc etc. Then proceeds to be a dumb ****ing **** when she tells me that eating 5000 calories and not gaining weight is normal, feeling like you just took an elephant tranquilizer after a half a glass of orange juice is normal, going from 133lb to 125.5 in 2 weeks, lowest I've been in 2 years is normal, and to top it all off, Dr Dumb**** says "oh well there are lots of people who would feel great to be like you". Oh thankyou Dr Dumb**** for completely marginalizing the suffering I have gone through for the past decade due to incompetent idiots who think just like you.
> .


Wow - what an idiot. Is there another hospital near you? The one near me stinks. Last time I went I was there for hours and I didn't even get to talk to a doc.


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## Marlon (Jun 27, 2011)

capitalism = treatments not cures, nothing will ever get cured as long as people keep making $$


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Do you have a throat that is often dry, nose that often runs and eyes that often dry out? 

Doctor Dumbass logic 101, "SOUNDS LIKE SJOGREN'S". Never even considers household allergens or mold exposure as a possible cause and immediately dismisses you if you try and suggest it. They have such tunnel vision(law of the instrument concept) that any symptom must automatically mean disease. It is almost as if they are conditioned in med school to have all rational thought removed from their decision making and problem solving processes.


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## plastics (Apr 11, 2010)

I do think there are some doctors that care and actually learned something in med school. However, yes, there are many that either just take your money or want to make things as quick as possible so they can move on to the next person and go home. 
I never had health problems until recently and luckily I had a young female doctor that insisted on me getting a bunch of tests done. I know that doesn't always happen for people. However, it doesn't mean I'll find out what's wrong. That's why I really think it's important for a person to not just rely on doctors. You honestly have to look on the internet and look around at what people say and research a little bit. Also, talk to people around you because you never know what they experienced. 
Yes, the internet can get you anxious or fearful, but I rather be fearful than rely totally on someone else to tell me what's wrong and then die or something. 
One thing doctors like to do is say because your young and don't smoke and are generally healthy that it means something serious isn't wrong with you. I've been finding that frustrating.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I deem doctors of minimal use. Most of the time they're just an idiot who stands between me and the drugs I want.

One would think that after "only" 11 years we would have established that benzos fail to calm me, yet it seems the medical community isn't aware that any CNS depressant other than benzos exist!

Thus, I'm forced to drink because no doctor has the balls to prescribe anything other than a benzo since all those other drugs are "too dangerous." I can safely handle a gun, but I'm too damn stupid to handle a bottle of pills is what that means.


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## Rickets (May 5, 2014)

Drs advice for weight gain:

"Eat lots of McDonalds and tubs of ice cream"

Why technically true, not exactly the best way.

He is obese so I never took his nutrition advice seriously.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Rickets said:


> Drs advice for weight gain:
> 
> "Eat lots of McDonalds and tubs of ice cream"
> 
> ...


My doctor's advice has been "drink an ensure" which is equally terrible nutrition advice as its just sugar and oil with some minerals and vitamins thrown in, no fibre, basically junk.

They also mention from time to time to eat lots of fibre but never mention that there are two types of fibre and it is the soluable fibre that is going to help with IBS symptoms, NOT insoluable fibre. So most people hear Dr Dumbass and then go on to eat a lot of ruffage only to have their symptoms get worse. I bet in Dr Dumbass's career he/she hasn't rehabilitated a single patient's digestive system. No one who walks through Dr Dumbasses door for GI problems ever gets better.

Health forums exist soley because Dr Dumbass can't do his/her job and sucks so much that the patients have to go searching, diagnosing and treating themselves.


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## Imbored21 (Jun 18, 2012)

Damn, the ignorance in this thread. The only doctors who are literally worthless are psychiatrists. I have social anxiety. Ok here have an antidepressant that does nothing. Thanks ****er.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Imbored21 said:


> Damn, the ignorance in this thread. The only doctors who are literally worthless are psychiatrists. I have social anxiety. Ok here have an antidepressant that does nothing. Thanks ****er.


So strangely you think they're worthwhile in other areas...


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