# My New Regimen



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

*Edit: reading this back makes me laugh and cry at the same time. Here lie the ramblings of a drugged-up lunatic, please do not try any of this, it is highly dangerous. Even some of these drugs/meds on their own have unknown toxicity and long-term safety, all together would simply be idiotic and the outcome impossible to predict. Bear in mind that even if the pharmacology suggests they'd be a safe combination, you can never know everything a drug does to your body & brain, or the interaction between a combination like this. This is why drugs have such an extensive testing process, and many make it past that only to be pulled from the market due to some unanticipated side-effect. Furthermore, just because something is 'natural' or a 'supplement' like some of those here doesn't make it exempt from this.

Frankly I want to live a normal life span, and luckily never did attempt this. I'm leaving this here just as a reminder that even an expert pharmacologist should know their limits, let alone an internet-educated 18 year old with mental problems. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.*

I'm currently on benzos, so can't exactly think straight. Still, I'd like to share the regimen I'll be commencing in about a month. I'll add these to moclobemide within a matter of days when they arrive, unless I get something amazing from moclobemide alone by then. Mediocre is not what I'm looking for at such a demanding time of my life.

A lot will probably change when I sober up, but:


Moclobemide (MAO-A inhibitor that boosts serotonin (a lot) and dopamine (slightly), but noradrenaline shouldn't be affected enough to cause significant anxiety or drug potentiation due to the low dose, and octopamine) [small dose, <= 150mg/day (day)]

Fluoxetine (multiple positive effects, but potent SSRI effect boosts moclobemide's serotonin action, and 5-HT2C blockade is good) [low dose, <= 10mg/day (night)]

Trazodone (blocks 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C for antidepressant effect and to prevent fluoxetine/moclobemide effects on these, and also agonises 5-HT1A autoreceptors to downregulate them more at night) [moderate dose, <= 100mg/day (night)] *(Considering replacing this with mirtazapine.)*

Ondansetron (prevents SSRI nausea/anxiety by antagonist action on 5-HT3) [moderate dose (day)]

Risperidone (to hopefully block D2 autoreceptors and allow selegiline to take effect relatively less impaired.) [very low doses, <= 0.4mg/day (day)] *(I'll eventually replace this with amisulpride, when I can source some)*

Atomoxetine (shutting down the noradrenaline transporter should prevent PEA shooting a ton of noradrenaline into the synapse, therefore giving PEA a potent dopaminergic effect with only modestly elevated noradrenaline) [low dose (day)]

Selegiline (potentiates PEA and many other drugs, also antidepressant and nootropic effect) [medium/high dose, <=15mg/day (day)]

PEA ("natural amphetamine" some people call it, but so much better and sustainable in this regimen; once you try it you will probably never want to live without it again) [low doses (day)]

Carvedilol (to keep my heart rate and blood pressure under control)

Pramipexole (to keep constant D2/D3 stimulation, desensitise autoreceptors and ease/prevent crashes) [high doses (day/night)]

Huperzine A (enhanced cognition, benefit on dopamine psychosis and tolerance) [high doses (day)]

L-tyrosine/L-tryptophan/DL-phenylalanine/L-glutamine (for crashes, replenishes neurotransmitters) [high doses (day)]

Inositol (more mood-boosting action) [moderate doses, <= 12g/day (day/night)

Domperidone (to prevent dopamine nausea) [moderate doses (day)]

Magnesium glycinate (I'd prefer to add memantine also, but magnesium and huperzine will do for now in preventing tolerance) [high doses, <= 1300mg/day (day/night)]

Memantine (for a sustainable anti-tolerance effect alongside magnesium) [moderate dose (day/night)]

Buprenorphine (for strong mood-lifting action and anti-dysphoria receptor blockade) [high doses (day/night)]

Naltrexone (to prevent autoreceptor tolerance to opioids, and boost effects substantially) [ultra low dose, < 1mg/day (day/night)]

Cetirizine (OTC antihistamine that prevents opioid itching without drowsiness)
Modafinil (to counteract sedation and improve mental performance + mood)

Pregabalin (to help anxiety and prevent seizures from other meds) [low doses, <= 150-300mg/day (day/night)]

DHEA (mood booster, increased male traits and assertiveness/confidence) [moderate doses, <= 25mg/day (day)]

Phosphatidylserine (should improve mood) [moderate dose (day)]

Melatonin (for sleep) [moderate dose (night)]

Piracetam (enhanced cognition) [high doses, (day)]

(sublingual nifedipine/carvedilol/benzos and BP monitor on hand for problems)

(probably also carvedilol and rhodiola, and some more supplements I haven't listed)

I know there are probably metabolic interactions between some, and I'll find out before starting in order to adjust dosage.

I chose most of them based on price from the IOP, not particular benefit over others in the same class.

When I finally have all the ingredients to this cocktail of drugs, I can expect euphoria, confidence, sociability, empathy, intelligence and many other things to go way up higher than I've ever experienced before. I reckon I could get the euphoria extremely high and keep it there indefinitely, but I'll employ a much lower dose for day-to-day living. I definitely wouldn't use such high doses without memantine (or until I can get memantine, DXM).

The experience is not something a drug-naive person could ever imagine, as these levels of pleasure and happiness are far beyond the boundaries of what an average brain will experience in a lifetime.

I suppose I should be concerned about having something so close to a "never-ending pleasure pill", as I may become compelled to dose up to ridiculous levels and go psychotic. Oh well, I'm sure the serotonergic drugs should keep compulsiveness to a minimum. It'll be fun.

Of course I'll have ****loads to add to this list in time (especially supplements), but I'm focusing on these for now. Once on the regimen I will have greatly increased drive and intelligence, so will research all drugs involved more thoroughly and identify any risks.

I plan to use this therapeutically for my disorders, but also just to feel good.

I'm already thinking about adding more opioids to the list. Until I have memantine, I'll just stick to occasional use of loperamide.

*Disclaimer: do not try this! I am not sure on the doses, and this is highly experimental, so please don't copy me. There are a lot of risky combinations here, so beware.*

[stoned post]


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Sabu said:


> Cool that you've got something that works well for you but did you knock off a chemist to get all them drugs?


Some I may get from my psychiatrist, but most will be ordered from online pharmacies.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

If you get a 3 day long psychosis from all the dopamine in your brain - keep in mind: All the people with "SAS" written on their t-shirts are the good ones, not your enemies.


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## Sabu (Feb 28, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Some I may get from my psychiatrist, but most will be ordered from online pharmacies.


Nice!


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> If you get a 3 day long psychosis from all the dopamine in your brain - keep in mind: All the people with "SAS" written on their t-shirts are the good ones, not your enemies.


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## BradPit (Apr 8, 2008)

that PEA sounds very interesting is this what you mean -> phenylethylamine (PEA)
http://www.chocolate.org/phenylethylamine.html
Is it legal to buy online?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

BradPit said:


> that PEA sounds very interesting is this what you mean -> phenylethylamine (PEA)
> http://www.chocolate.org/phenylethylamine.html
> Is it legal to buy online?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine


Yes, it is legal to buy. Even though abuse of PEA is widespread knowledge in the world, I don't see how it could ever be banned as it is in chocolate and our own bodies (I suppose that didn't matter with GHB). They would have to ban cocoa/chocolate as well.

With enough selegiline, chocolate can give an amphetamine-like effect if enough is eaten.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

I already see a picture in my head of DEA & SWAT teams in a chocolate factory.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> I already see a picture in my head of DEA & SWAT teams in a chocolate factory.


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## BradPit (Apr 8, 2008)

LOL... reminds me of that movie Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Okay, I've changed the regimen slightly. Got rid of mirtazapine due to cost, and simply because I can emulate all its good effects with fluoxetine and ondansetron. Also added modafinil.

I should be starting this in 1-2 weeks.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

You got most of your drugs already?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Some are arriving in 1-2 weeks:


Fluoxetine
Selegiline
Risperidone
Wellbutrin

DHEA is arriving in a couple of days, huperzine probably as well.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

You don't want to hear the answer to that question.  Just kidding, some of these meds are really expensive, you won in the lottery?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> You don't want to hear the answer to that question.  Just kidding, some of these meds are really expensive, you won in the lottery?


I recently came into a small amount of money, that I really shouldn't be spending on supplements and drugs. So, I'm spending it on supplements and drugs.

Plus, I have a good source.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I've decided to change the regimen, at least initially. These drugs should be dispatched today:


Fluoxetine
Selegiline
Risperidone
Bupropion

Huperzine and DHEA are arriving tomorrow, hopefully.

Selegiline + bupropion will be pretty damn good.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> Selegiline + bupropion will be pretty damn good.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. This combo could produce anxiety/paranoia instead of euphoria, but who knows... Do you at least have anticonvulsants at hand? It would be a wise idea to take eg. Klonopin before Selegiline + Bupropion.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about that. This combo could produce anxiety/paranoia instead of euphoria, but who knows... Do you at least have anticonvulsants at hand? It would be a wise idea to take eg. Klonopin before Selegiline + Bupropion.


The convulsions should only be seen at high doses of bupropion (e.g. 400mg), not the tiny doses I'll be using.

I do have some lorazepam, yeah, and I take magnesium.

The main thing I'm worried about is hyperthermia. I should use low doses until I can get some carvedilol to oppose some of it.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Unfortunately I've had to chop even more off my regimen, at least till September. This is because I must take drug tests in order to be allowed back at college, and selegiline/Wellbutrin cause false-positives for amph/meth.

I'm now starting with these:


Fluoxetine (taken at night)
Pramipexole (taken at night)
DHEA
Huperzine A
Magnesium glycinate

I'm considering just adding low dose fluoxetine to moclobemide rather than replace it. I don't want to be on moclobemide forever, but it's probably the easiest way right now.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

euphoria said:


> Unfortunately I've had to chop even more off my regimen, at least till September. This is because I must take drug tests in order to be allowed back at college, and selegiline/Wellbutrin cause false-positives for amph/meth.
> 
> I'm now starting with these:
> 
> ...


I don't know about the UK but in the US if you have a prescription for a drug and are subject to drug testing, it can't be held against you if you tell them that you are on prescription medication.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Amocholes said:


> I don't know about the UK but in the US if you have a prescription for a drug and are subject to drug testing, it can't be held against you if you tell them that you are on prescription medication.


I only have a script for moclobemide; the rest are what I'm self-medicating with.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Update

Today's regimen:


300mg moclobemide
1320mg magnesium glycinate/lysinate/aspartate
Vitamins/minerals/antioxidants
1mg lorazepam
50mg DHEA (probably too much)
150μg huperzine A

I'm still not properly adjusted to moclobemide, but I feel a small antidepressant effect during the evening/night. During the day I feel somewhat unhappy, but not properly depressed (probably due to magnesium). Most of moclobemide's side-effects have gone now, and I think I'm seeing the very beginning of recovery from depression.

DHEA and huperzine I only started today, but I am noticing more mental clarity with huperzine doses perhaps, but also dysphoria and headaches. This one I'll drop until I have my proper regimen going.

Lorazepam I was taking for moclobemide's side-effects; even though most of those have disappeared, I continue to take it in small doses because moclobemide isn't helping much yet. I don't expect many, if any withdrawal effects with magnesium on board.

I've had some difficulty with the pharmacies, but I should be getting just fluoxetine and pramipexole shipped tonight or tomorrow. I'm holding off on the others for now due to drug testing.

Oh yeah I've got 30g of kratom coming tomorrow, which I should be able to use therapeutically until moclobemide kicks in without too many dependency concerns.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I've had some difficulty with the pharmacies, but I should be getting just fluoxetine and pramipexole shipped tonight or tomorrow. I'm holding off on the others for now due to drug testing.


That sounds like a pretty nice starting regimen. I hope you add the fluoxetine slowly at first though. I'm interested to see how the pramipexole augments the moderately heightened dopamine effect from the moclobemide.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm thinking of using:


Pramipexole (night)
Low-dose fluoxetine (night)
Moclobemide (day)
Low-dose antipsychotic (day)

Well, at least for a few months. The pramipexole should downregulate autoreceptors during the night (relatively low doses), then in the daytime I'll take the antipsychotic which will further block D2 autoreceptors (both mechanisms hopefully enhancing moclobemide's weak DA effect).

I'm hoping fluoxetine at night will downregulate my serotonin autoreceptors while I sleep, thereby enhancing moclobemide and adding its own effects. I've found with SSRIs and MAOIs, best results come from night-time dosing.

Any thoughts? I know antipsychotic + pramipexole in theory is pointless, but I'll be taking them at different times.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

does that massive drug cocktail energize and actually MOTIVATE you to go out and socialize??/thats what i desperately need, something to actually give me the desire to socialize..


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

belfort said:


> does that massive drug cocktail energize and actually MOTIVATE you to go out and socialize??/thats what i desperately need, something to actually give me the desire to socialize..


Definitely. Some cocktails I've been on make me want to do nothing but socialise.


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

Amocholes said:


> I don't know about the UK but in the US if you have a prescription for a drug and are subject to drug testing, it can't be held against you if you tell them that you are on prescription medication.


It's funny that you can be on high doses of opiates and be exempt from drug testing but in some states medical marijuana will get you fired even if you have a prescription.

As for ops cocktail, becareful dude it sounds like an overdose waiting to happen mixing opiates and benzos+. I assume you know what you are doing but many a responsible drug user has been killed by this combo. It's easy to forget yourself and take more no matter how knowledgable you are, remember to respect the drugs.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

It's been about 1 week since I increased my dose, and 2 weeks since starting moclobemide. So far today, I've noticed a very light mood lift, which is very preferable to the depression I've had for about 5 months. Still too early to say for sure, but this seems like it could develop into hypomania quite easily with higher doses.

Predictably, moclobemide doesn't seem as anxiolytic as SSRIs, but probably better for depression. I've heard higher doses will minimise any effect on noradrenaline/adrenaline, strangely.

I'd forgotten how much I like serotonin...


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> Predictably, moclobemide doesn't seem as anxiolytic as SSRIs, but probably better for depression. I've heard higher doses will minimise any effect on noradrenaline/adrenaline, strangely.


What should be the pharmacological explanation for such an effect?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> What should be the pharmacological explanation for such an effect?


It's because of the increase in concentration of octopamine, which is an adrenergic autoreceptor agonist. MAO-A metabolises it usually, but not with moclobemide active.


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## ItemEleven (Apr 1, 2009)

^^ I've studied psychology at uni for three years now. I've never heard of anyone taking so many different drugs at the same time. It seems to work for you. Your posts are coherent. They make sense so your obviously still in control. I guess I'm trying to say I admire you for being prepared to do all that to help yourself rather than give up.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

It's not unusual for some psychiatric (physical healthy) inpatients to get 6-8 different drugs per day until they stabilize.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Regimen updated.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Wow. Moclobemide + selegiline + PEA + buprenorphine would be extremely euphoric. I'd love to try something like:

- Moclobemide and selegiline daily
- PEA + NRI prn
- buprenorphine prn


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

my psych BA didn't teach me anything about how different drugs work. anyways, keep us all updated, im curious to your outcome. 

i get euphoria taking my usual nardil, benzo, b-vita... along with aniracetam. i get very social and feel very very confident. its not hypomanic but it sure feels close to it; i just feel totally amped. if i take 500mg aniracetam, it lasts for around 5 hours. it has a short half life, but its potent.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> Wow. Moclobemide + selegiline + PEA + buprenorphine would be extremely euphoric.


You know what happened when you combined the irreversible MAOI Nardil with PEA? You had a hypertensive crisis and your brother called 911. Combining Moclobemide + Selegiline again blocks MAO-A + MAO-B. I wouldn't take that + PEA (+ Buprenorphine).


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> You know what happened when you combined the irreversible MAOI Nardil with PEA? You had a hypertensive crisis and your brother called 911. Combining Moclobemide + Selegiline again blocks MAO-A + MAO-B. I wouldn't take that + PEA (+ Buprenorphine).


The buprenorphine would be taken on different days than the PEA. The PEA would be taken with clonidine or carvedilol PRN to counteract the noradrenergic sympathomimetic stimulation.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

I don't really care about the buprenorphine, it's the Moclobemide + Selegiline (+ PEA) combo that scares me (again blocking MAO-A *+* MAO-B). I think Carvedilol is a better choice than Clonidine. And if someone uses the combo Selegiline + Moclobemide + PEA (which I think is a failure), then he should take 25mg Carvedilol before anything else, because when his blood pressure starts to raise it can does so very quickly - maybe too quickly to react with oral Carvedilol at that point before bad things happen.

PS: Treating a hypertensive episode too aggressively can do great damage.

PSS: I don't want to argue, I just don't want someone's "head to explode" and his family to suffer.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> And if someone uses the combo Selegiline + Moclobemide + PEA (which I think is a failure), then he should take 25mg Carvedilol before anything else, because when his blood pressure starts to raise it can does so very quickly - maybe too quickly to react with oral Carvedilol at that point before bad things happen.


Just take the 25mg carvedilol well ahead of dosing PEA and blood pressure will stay under control.



> PS: Treating a hypertensive episode too aggressively can do great damage.


That's why it's best to find the ideal dose of carvedilol first (one that does not dangerously lower blood pressure), and _then_ add the PEA and titrate upwards while monitoring blood pressure.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> That's why it's best to find the ideal dose of carvedilol first (one that does not dangerously lower blood pressure), and _then_ add the PEA and titrate upwards while monitoring blood pressure.


Carvedilol isn't that dangerous in that regard, but some people use Nifedipine to self-treat hypertensive episodes (eg. caused by a MAOI-tyramine interaction). When they treat the hypertension too aggressively they can do great harm to their bodies because of severe hypotension.


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## Beffrey28 (Jan 15, 2009)

My fear of blushing is getting less and less every day. Eventually i want to quit with benzo's, phenibut and gbl (actually i want to keep this for having fun)
I will keep taking Clonidine and Propanolol for the physical reaction.
I also will keep taking Selegiline because i want to be able to take PEA with it for some fun times too.

Regimen for the near future:

-Clonidine
-Propanolol (not on days when planning to take some PEA)
-Selegiline (with the occasional PEA)
-Piracetam 
-Acetyl L-Carnitine
-L-Tryptophan
-Magnesium Glycinate
-Multivitamins
-L-Glutamine
-L-Tyrosine

Nice?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Beffrey28 said:


> My fear of blushing is getting less and less every day. Eventually i want to quit with benzo's, phenibut and gbl (actually i want to keep this for having fun)
> I will keep taking Clonidine and Propanolol for the physical reaction.
> I also will keep taking Selegiline because i want to be able to take PEA with it for some fun times too.
> 
> ...


I would add a low dose of antipsychotic drug to that, e.g. 50-150mg amisulpride/day. Will open up the D2 receptors to euphoria from selegiline.

I'd also replace clonidine with carvedilol.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> I don't really care about the buprenorphine, it's the Moclobemide + Selegiline (+ PEA) combo that scares me (again blocking MAO-A *+* MAO-B). I think Carvedilol is a better choice than Clonidine. And if someone uses the combo Selegiline + Moclobemide + PEA (which I think is a failure), then he should take 25mg Carvedilol before anything else, because when his blood pressure starts to raise it can does so very quickly - maybe too quickly to react with oral Carvedilol at that point before bad things happen.


I'll only be taking about 150mg moclobemide per day, and boosting serotonin with fluoxetine, mirtazapine, ondansetron, etc. I'll be taking selegiline in high doses, like 10-15mg/day, which will mean that potentiation of dopamine is far greater than (nor)adrenaline. I'll be able to use a low dose of PEA/Wellbutrin that has very little effect on noradrenaline. This small effect may even be cancelled out with carvedilol.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I would add a low dose of antipsychotic drug to that, e.g. 50-150mg amisulpride/day. Will open up the D2 receptors to euphoria from selegiline.


But when he has his party time with extra PEA this could end up in too much dopamine and therefore acute psychosis.



euphoria said:


> I'll only be taking about 150mg moclobemide per day, and boosting serotonin with fluoxetine, mirtazapine, ondansetron, etc. I'll be taking selegiline in high doses, like 10-15mg/day


This can result in serotonin syndrome.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> But when he has his party time with extra PEA this could end up in too much dopamine and therefore acute psychosis.


When I do all this dopamine stuff, I'll be taking huperzine to prevent some of the dopamine-mediated deficit in acetylcholine (and other nootropics), and will have risperidone ready for any major problems.



> This can result in serotonin syndrome.


I'll be titrating the dose up very slowly and carefully. I know about the metabolism interactions as well.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

euphoria said:


> When I do all this dopamine stuff, I'll be taking huperzine to prevent some of the dopamine-mediated deficit in acetylcholine (and other nootropics), and will have risperidone ready for any major problems.


Take benzos before the risperidone in such an emergency case, otherwise you could get a seizure.



euphoria said:


> I'll be titrating the dose up very slowly and carefully. I know about the metabolism interactions as well.


Having cyproheptadine at hand would be very useful for serotonin (syndrome) related problems, it's really cheap.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> Carvedilol isn't that dangerous in that regard, but some people use Nifedipine to self-treat hypertensive episodes (eg. caused by a MAOI-tyramine interaction). When they treat the hypertension too aggressively they can do great harm to their bodies because of severe hypotension.


When I received my Rx for Nardil, I didn't want a script for nifedipine. It's much more dangerous than a moderate acute hyperadrenergic event. A cascading fall in blood pressure can lead to stroke or myocardial infarction pretty easily.


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## cheesycow5 (Jun 1, 2009)

Could we get an update on your regimen, euphoria?

Also, norepinephrine is a funny word to say.


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## River99 (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, I am interested in the Senegeline & PEA combo, but I wonder about this Carvedilol. I have read that the combo can cause hypertension but has anyone here actually experienced it? No offence but reading some of the replies here seems very much like guessing. Could not the risk of side-effects go up if you just add more drugs?

Maybe snorting cocaine, or MDMA can cause hypertension too? I doubt though many orders Carvedilol from some internet pharmacy everytime they think of doing that though?

Just adding another drug, that could have it's own side-effects, just because a side-effect that may or may not happen, seems a bit odd to me.. But I obviously do not know as much about meds as some ppl on this forum. 

Anyway, is it not better to maybe take it slowly to check how you react to senegeline + pea and maybe have some Carvedilol around if you experience hypertension, than to just take that drug too for a side-effect that may not occur?

Again. I don't know, I am just asking. I do have a great respect for drugs and especially mixing several if there are not very good reasons for doing so.......


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

River99 said:


> Anyway, is it not better to maybe take it slowly to check how you react to senegeline + pea and maybe have some Carvedilol around if you experience hypertension, than to just take that drug too for a side-effect that may not occur?


If you overdose on PEA, it will be too late to prevent the cardiovascular complications by taking carvedilol orally. You would need to quickly fill a syringe with a liquid solution of carvedilol that doesn't contain binders or fillers and then immediately IV.

Taking PEA in low doses when combined with selegiline, then slowly titrating up while monitoring blood pressure until carvedilol would be needed for a higher dose is your best bet. Once your systolic rises 15-20 mmHg, or diastolic rises to 10 mmHg, then add a low dose of carvedilol 30 minutes before you take PEA next. Repeat this process until you reach an efficacious dose of PEA.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

As of tomorrow, this is my regimen:


Moclobemide 300mg
Pregabalin 100mg
Magnesium (amino acid chelate) 700mg
Vitamins

I also have a couple of lorazepams left.

I'm not sure if I'll take pregabalin for longer than a few months, I would prefer to focus on other neurotransmitter systems more than GABA due to its inherent anti-cognitive (yet pleasurable) effects. At least, until subtype-selective drugs are available.

Both moclobemide and pregabalin doses are going to be raised soon. I'm pretty sure pregabalin will help me a lot with anxiety/depression, and will be a good addition to the regimen.

I'm still trying to acquire the other drugs I mentioned at the start of this thread.


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

cool...gonna be awaiting your results. =)


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Forgot to add, I've been smoking kanna (sceletium tortuosum) recently, which contains a PDE-4 inhibitor (like rolipram, an experimental antidepressant). I really doubt kanna is an SSRI/SDRI or serotonin/dopamine releaser, due to its lack of synergy with moclobemide.

Actually not feeling bad today, should be even better after I pick up pregabalin .


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Taken 50mg pregabalin, not expecting much except a minor reduction in anxiety and mental slowness.

Edit: I feel a bit more relaxed, similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer. Think I'll try smoking on this.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Taken 50mg pregabalin, not expecting much except a minor reduction in anxiety and mental slowness.
> 
> Edit: I feel a bit more relaxed, similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer. Think I'll try smoking on this.


Hmm... I didn't feel 200mg Lyrica twice daily at all... seems you are the luckier one of us.  But I think it was the only medication I took at that time.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> Hmm... I didn't feel 200mg Lyrica twice daily at all... seems you are the luckier one of us.  But I think it was the only medication I took at that time.


I've had quite a long period of abstinence + magnesium, so tolerance is low.

As expected, Lyrica works well for anxiety even at low doses. I might come off it after a while though because of its effect on cognition. I am still very avoidant, but haven't felt proper SA in a long, long time.

Oh, and mixed with weed = . Unfortunately this combo has a pronounced negative effect on cognition, which is partially reversible with huperzine.

Still got 9 weeks until I have any obligations, so I'm sure I'll have it a lot better by then.

Lyrica feels like GHB, with perhaps a bit more relaxation and less euphoria (I haven't yet tried higher doses though). I can see that it is the perfect drug for a depressant + stimulant cocktail; with Adderall or Ritalin it'd be pretty sweet. It's good to have such direct access to the "brakes" of the central nervous system. It could be alternated with benzos and phenobarbital for a sustainable depressant effect.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I've had quite a long period of abstinence + magnesium, so tolerance is low.
> 
> As expected, Lyrica works well for anxiety even at low doses. I might come off it after a while though because of its effect on cognition. I am still very avoidant, but haven't felt proper SA in a long, long time.
> 
> ...


You get those effects from Lyrica at such low doses? Try 600-900mg just once and see if you benefit from it at all. I heard those doses can be awesome, but obviously it wouldn't be sustainable for a longterm regimen.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> You get those effects from Lyrica at such low doses? Try 600-900mg just once and see if you benefit from it at all.


If he gets described effects ('similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer') from low doses like 50mg it's not the best advice to tell him "try 600-900mg". Could knock him out cold for 8+ hours. 

I know that such 'high' doses can be used, personally I had no problem with them and some people say these doses feel great (I didn't feel much at all). But euphoria seems to have low tolerance for pregabalin at the moment, so he shouldn't risk an overdose.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> If he gets described effects ('similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer') from low doses like 50mg it's not the best advice to tell him "try 600-900mg". Could knock him out cold for 8+ hours.
> 
> I know that such 'high' doses can be used, personally I had no problem with them and some people say these doses feel great (I didn't feel much at all). But euphoria seems to have low tolerance for pregabalin at the moment, so he shouldn't risk an overdose.


Maybe bumping up the dose that quickly is unwise, but I doubt there are any issues regarding the safety of it. I mean, can you even overdose on pregabalin without taking many grams of the stuff?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> Maybe bumping up the dose that quickly is unwise, but I doubt there are any issues regarding the safety of it. I mean, can you even overdose on pregabalin without taking many grams of the stuff?


It directly raises GABA levels, so I'd assume similar overdose risks apply as with barbiturates, alcohol, etc.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> Maybe bumping up the dose that quickly is unwise, but I doubt there are any issues regarding the safety of it. I mean, can you even overdose on pregabalin without taking many grams of the stuff?


Euphoria wouldn't suffer any organ damage if he took 600-900mg pregabalin, but it could knock him out for a half day if he is unlucky and there are better ways to spend his freetime, aren't there?  Of course there is the risk of falling involved which could cause injuries.

Look also at the definition of the word overdose:

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/drug+overdose


> A drug overdose is the accidental or intentional use of a drug or medicine in an amount that is higher than is normally used.


http://www.emedicinehealth.com/drug_overdose/article_em.htm


> Drug overdoses occur when a person takes more than the medically recommended dose.


You are smart enough to know that a benzodiazepine mono-intoxication (benzodiazepine overdose) nearly never kills a (suicidal) person and the person will most likely fully recover. Still it was an overdose.



euphoria said:


> It directly raises GABA levels, so I'd assume the same overdose risks apply as with barbiturates, alcohol, etc.


Alcohol & (short acting) Barbiturates are the most toxic (low 'therapeutic index'), benzos and pregabalin are much safer.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> Alcohol & (short acting) Barbiturates are the most toxic (low 'therapeutic index'), benzos and pregabalin are much safer.


Do you know if it's possible to die from pregabalin overdose?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> It directly raises GABA levels, so I'd assume similar overdose risks apply as with barbiturates, alcohol, etc.


Barbiturates and alcohol are much easier to overdose on. People overdose on those substances everyday, but I can't even find one case of a toxic overdose induced by pregabalin.



Medline said:


> Euphoria wouldn't suffer any organ damage if he took 600-900mg pregabalin, but it could knock him out for a half day if he is unlucky...


Really? It's that powerful? Please cite any sources that can back this up.



Medline said:


> benzos and pregabalin are much safer.


Benzos are very safe when taken in large quantities, but they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as pregabalin.

*http://pain.emedtv.com/pregabalin/pregabalin.html# (Page four)


> It is not known what to expect from a pregabalin overdose. In previous studies, very high doses (up to 8000 mg) did not cause any problems, other than the usual side effects.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm pretty sure pregabalin + benzos/alcohol/barbs would be a lethal cocktail.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I'm pretty sure pregabalin + benzos/alcohol/barbs would be a lethal cocktail.


Well, that isn't pregabalin monotherapy now, is it? ;-)

Your new regimen doesn't even consist of such drugs.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> Barbiturates and alcohol are much easier to overdose on. People overdose on those substances everyday, but I can't even find one case of a toxic overdose induced by pregabalin.


Why do you write that people are overdosing on barbiturates everyday? Where should they get these barbiturates from the 1950s and 1960s? Only Phenobarbital is still seldom used in western countries for epilepsy, Thiopental in hospitals and Pentobarbital for euthanasia in some countries.



> Really? It's that powerful? Please cite any sources that can back this up.


He described 50mg felt 'similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer'. As he seems to have low tolerance I still think he should not take 600-900mg like you told him.



euphoria said:


> I'm pretty sure pregabalin + benzos/alcohol/barbs would be a lethal cocktail.


Please stop such discussions instantly, thanks.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> He described 50mg felt 'similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer'. As he seems to have low tolerance I still think he should not take 600-900mg like you told him.


As I only have a 2 x 50mg/day script, it won't be happening any time soon. lol.



> Please stop such discussions instantly, thanks.


I was just saying it's a pretty risky combination, so probably not a good idea for anyone to try.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> Why do you write that people are overdosing on barbiturates everyday? Where should they get these barbiturates from the 1950s and 1960s? Only Phenobarbital is still seldom used in western countries for epilepsy, Thiopental in hospitals and Pentobarbital for euthanasia in some countries.


I was exaggerating. Barbiturates are indeed seldom used nowadays, but people still die from taking them. MDMA and heroin are street drugs that are very commonly used worldwide, and people may not die from it every day, though it still happens rather often.



> He described 50mg felt 'similar to having 1/2 to 1 beer'. As he seems to have low tolerance I still think he should not take 600-900mg like you told him.


 I take that back, he should not try a dose that large right away. But trying higher doses every now and then until he finds one that reaches his intoxication limit doesn't appear too dangerous to me. It's more dangerous to get drunk and stumble around like an idiot, but even that is rather safe as long as you don't get near alcohol poisoning or operate a vehicle while you're like that.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> I take that back, he should not try a dose that large right away. But trying higher doses every now and then until he finds one that reaches his intoxication limit doesn't appear too dangerous to me. It's more dangerous to get drunk and stumble around like an idiot, but even that is rather safe as long as you don't get near alcohol poisoning or operate a vehicle while you're like that.


Agreed!



> I was exaggerating. Barbiturates are indeed seldom used nowadays, but people still die from taking them. MDMA and heroin are street drugs that are very commonly used worldwide, and people may not die from it every day, though it still happens rather often.


http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/165514-overview


> In 2004, 3149 barbiturate overdoses were reported to US poison control centers, with 11 deaths. Most deaths (10 out of 11) were due to poisoning with long-acting agents.


http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/813255-overview


> United States
> 
> In 2005, a total of 67,593 benzodiazepine exposures were reported to US poison control centers, of which 3018 (0.04%) resulted in major toxicity and 243 (0.003%) resulted in death.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

An update (as of tomorrow):


300mg moclobemide
150mg pregabalin
90mg Pycnogenol (an attack dose; I'll possibly reduce this)
1100mg magnesium
300mg citrus bioflavonoids
1 multivitamin
Lots of green tea
600mg N-acetyl-cysteine (possibly more)
25mg+ codeine (occasionally, when I feel really bad)
Nicotine gum (for stimulant/nootropic effect)

I'm thinking about adding a really low dose of DXM to this for its serotonin uptake inhibition (and NMDA antagonism), which should produce a nice serotonergic feeling with moclobemide. There really is no risk of serotonin syndrome if I titrate dose up in tiny increments; it's not like 5mg of DXM is going to kill me, even with moclobemide.

Pycnogenol, green tea and N-acetyl-cysteine are all dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitors, which should reduce levels of adrenaline and noradrenaline while simultaneously boosting dopamine. Even taken alone pycnogenol is said to produce a feeling of clarity, calm and concentration, and its use in ADD suggests a dopaminergic mechanism. I'm taking these to fine-tune moclobemide's effects, and hopefully relieve anxiety enough to get off pregabalin.

I feel pretty awful today after quitting benzos, but I should be fine in a few days when these neurochemical changes happen. A lot of benzo withdrawal is just hyperactive adrenergic stimulation.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Ugh, I think it's the pregabalin making me feel this bad. Apparently it is capable of reducing serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline release, so I'm gonna cut it out during the day time and just use a small amount for sleep nightly (and save up some big doses for prn use). I am sick of having my brain constantly in "hibernate mode" with these anticonvulsants.

The same happened last time I used pregabalin for benzo withdrawal; it reduces some of the physical/mental anxiety, but at the cost of mood. Doesn't seem to have this effect in non-dependent people.


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

I wonder about the consequences of being in a constant state of euphoria. Is it sustainable? What happens when you run out of money? You also have to be very careful with such a comprehensive regimen, of course, and you know that, but mistakes happen.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Rufus said:


> I wonder about the consequences of being in a constant state of euphoria. Is it sustainable? What happens when you run out of money? You also have to be very careful with such a comprehensive regimen, of course, and you know that, but mistakes happen.


The consequences vary greatly, depending on whether you are smart in your quest for euphoria. Some methods to attain euphoria are sustainable, some are not. Some will make you into an arrogant prick who alienates everyone he knows, others will improve your cognitive abilities and/or make you much more sensitive and empathetic to others. Above all else, it depends whether you know what you are doing or not.

Human brains themselves are capable of maintaining a state of blissful euphoria higher than an MDMA and heroin peak combined, indefinitely, if homeostasis is bypassed and motivation is retained for living life. If you alter your genetics, you could have an infinite order of magnitude greater amount of euphoria than even those two drugs taken together.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

irma said:


> what's your experience with moclobemide been like so far? I thinking of trying it.


Moclobemide hasn't really done much so far, but that's at a pathetic 300mg/day dose, and 4 weeks in.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

I have used up to 600mg bid = 1200mg / day which didn't help much, but I also felt no real bad side effects.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

My meds arrived, so I decided to quit moclobemide today. Just not the right drug for me; too much adrenaline. I will be starting this regimen when moclobemide's effects disappear (about 15 hours from now):


Paroxetine 20mg
Mirtazapine 30mg
Selegiline 5mg
Bupropion (low dose)
Magnesium chelate 900mg
Huperzine A
N-acetyl-cysteine 1200mg
Vitamins

Those dosages will probably change, but this is what I'm starting with.

Whenever I can, I will switch paroxetine for sertraline, and huperzine for donepezil. Also, soon I'll be acquiring some diazepam and buprenorphine, then memantine.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm not sure what doses I'll be using when I have it all up and running, but I'll put in what I'm using initially.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Nice regimen, except I wonder if methylphenidate would be a better option than bupropion. A low dose would have to be used though of course.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Freesix88 said:


> A really low dose should be used then yeah. Hypertension sucks.


Psychosis would be the main risk in the case of a Selegiline + Methylphenidate combo not so much hypertension.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Eurgh, I just discovered that 450mg moclobemide isn't even equivalent to 10mg paroxetine a day (on serotonin), because I am now into SSRI depression zone.

Despite its lameness, I'm going back on moclobemide for a few weeks as I save up money for a bigger order of the meds. I should be able to get some Valium within a couple of days, giving this regimen:


Moclobemide 450mg
Diazepam
Huperzine A
Magnesium chelate


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Keep this in mind:

Wikipedia:


> Moclobemide doubles the half-life of diazepam and the active metabolite nordiazepam. The diazepam dose should be reduced accordingly.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Awesome! My Valium will last longer then.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Awesome! My Valium will last longer then.


Which means tolerance will build more slowly since you don't have to take it as often. Awesome indeed! Nice find Medline.


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