# atypical antipsychotic meds



## arth67 (Aug 6, 2009)

the older antipsychotics were popular for anxiety, especially before valium came along, they are now considered worthless.

however a new ganeration, the so called atypical antipsychotics are now being promoted, usually 'off label' as a magic cure for everything, including anxiety. Im very doubtful and would like to hear from anyone whos anxiety was reduced by them

here is a list of them, I think all are patented so very profitable to the drug cos making them

Amisulpride (Solian)
Aripiprazole (Abilify)
Asenapine (Saphris)
Clozapine (Clozaril, Leponex, Fazaclo, Froidir, Denzapine, Zaponex, Klozapol, Clopine)
Iloperidone (Fanapt, Fanapta, Zomaril)
Melperone (Buronil, Burnil, Eunerpan)
Olanzapine (Zyprexa, Zyprexa Zydis, Zalasta, Zolafren, Olzapin, Rexapin, Symbyax)
Paliperidone (Invega)
Perospirone (Lullan)
Quetiapine (Seroquel, Ketipinor)
Risperidone (Risperdal, Ridal, Sizodon, Riscalin, Rispolept, Belivon, Rispen)
Sertindole (Serdolect, Serlect)
Sulpiride (Meresa, Sulpirid, Bosnyl, Dogmatil, Eglonyl, Sulpiryd)
Ziprasidone (Geodon, Zeldox)


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

(atypical) antipsychotics should not be used to treat non-psychotic anxiety, especially long-term.


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## arth67 (Aug 6, 2009)

they are being promoted for anxiety and depresion by the companies that make them


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## lazy (Nov 19, 2008)

How do you know if your anxiety is of psychotic nature?


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

arth67 said:


> they are being promoted for anxiety and depresion by the companies that make them


McDonald's promotes some of their products as "healthy". Doesn't necessarily make it so.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

I take a middle ground on antipsychotics.. I'm on a low dosage of abilify (2.5 mg I think?), and it helps ward off paranoid thoughts, I don't live in constant fear of my own parents for example. 

While I have experienced full-blown psychosis before, I think antipsychotics are also helpful for sub-psychotic paranoia or severe OCD. Having said that, there are some risks that the doctors tend to gloss over when they prescribe them. Just make sure you are informed.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

Those pills are the devil! It is unnatural to pop pills, especially anti psychotics...


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## arth67 (Aug 6, 2009)

they are promoted as good for anxiety and depression without any psychosis being present


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

arth67 said:


> they are promoted as good for anxiety and depression without any psychosis being present


Yeah, I know. I've noticed they actually do have some antidepressant effects for me (not for everyone). And they are good for anxiety since they lessen irrational thoughts. It depends on the dosage though. If you start too high, it may increase physical anxiety (akathisia). That is the biggest danger with antipsychotics in my opinion.

Antipsychotics are blunt instruments. They do more than prevent psychosis. They affect dopamine levels which have more than one function. I don't know the specifics.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

zookeeper said:


> mcdonald's promotes some of their products as "healthy". Doesn't necessarily make it so.


yes they are!!! ;(


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

anti psychotics are probably the most effective for my anxiety, but cause certain effects that i cannot stand. I become socially impaired or something, some cognitive something, i feel really spaced out and on a different channel than everyone else. Plus now I get facial tics so they are out!!!!!!!!!


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> Those pills are the devil! It is unnatural to pop pills


It's not natural for adult humans to drink cow's milk, but they do.

That said, antipsychotics have very little use outside psychotic disorders.


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## DMBfan (Aug 29, 2008)

arth67 said:


> they are being promoted for anxiety and depresion by the companies that make them


Most of the [remaining] patents on antidepressants expire in the next few years. Coincidence that big pharma is advertising alternative medications that enjoy plenty of patent protection? I think not...


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

DMBfan said:


> Most of the [remaining] patents on antidepressants expire in the next few years. Coincidence that big pharma is promoting alternative medications that enjoy plenty of patent protection? I think not...


You mean they don't have my best interests at heart?!

*cries* (and now requires more antidepressants)


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## Sadaiyappan (Jun 20, 2009)

Some psychiatrists are evil. Mine for example, he puts me on 10mg abilify (for what he says is my "suspicuous thinking" and "paranoia"). I'm pretty sure I am not paranoid. But it does help with depression a little bit. So it can't be all bad. I take remeron and abilify, remeron for sleeping, and abilify for paranoia and I want to add an SSRI.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Sadaiyappan said:


> Some psychiatrists are evil. Mine for example, he puts me on 10mg abilify (for what he says is my "suspicuous thinking" and "paranoia"). I'm pretty sure I am not paranoid. But it does help with depression a little bit. So it can't be all bad. I take remeron and abilify, remeron for sleeping, and abilify for paranoia and I want to add an SSRI.


I'm not paranoid. Everyone just thinks I am. :sus


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## bowlingpins (Oct 18, 2008)

Antipsychotics are used for schizophrenia, among other things. The negative symptoms of schizophrenia i.e. apathy, social withdrawal, flat expression, restricted emotion, lack of motivation may be seen in SA/depression. Antipsychotics could be help with these symptoms. Best antipsychotics for these are clozaril and zyprexa but they are among the worst as far as side effects go.



DMBfan said:


> Most of the [remaining] patents on antidepressants expire in the next few years. Coincidence that big pharma is advertising alternative medications that enjoy plenty of patent protection? I think not...


I don't think antipsychs will ever be used mainstream for depression/anxiety. Other than a select few (Abilify, Geodon, possibly Seroquel) they have horrible side effects - weight gain, increase in cholesterol, triglycerides and plenty of other stuff I am forgetting right now.


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

On a side note, I actually was prescribed an antipsychotic when I was really young with my anxiety disorder. I have no idea which one, but it definitely silenced my head full of worrisome thoughts, and allowed me to concentrate about 1000x better. It was only presribed to me for a few weeks and the side-effect I had was constipation and bloating.

Very interesting how it helped me though.


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## KindredSpirit (Sep 30, 2008)

*Evil Psychiatrist*



Sadaiyappan said:


> Some psychiatrists are evil. Mine for example, he puts me on 10mg abilify (for what he says is my "suspicuous thinking" and "paranoia"). I'm pretty sure I am not paranoid. But it does help with depression a little bit. So it can't be all bad. I take remeron and abilify, remeron for sleeping, and abilify for paranoia and I want to add an SSRI.


I totally agree with you Sadaiyappan ... there are a lot of psychiatrist that are evil. They just can't resist all the bonuses and free vacations that they're getting from the Pharmaseudical representatives. I had this one psychiatrist that kept pushing atypical-antipsychotic medications on me like Seroquel, and Geodon and I finally asked him if he thought I had Schizophrenia and he was like "No, that would be unethical for me not to tell you" Needless to say, I didn't see him very much longer after that.


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## flieslikeabeagle (Sep 8, 2009)

My experience as a patient at one of the US's leading psychiatric hospitals, where I receive treatment for anxiety and major depression is that in cases of long term intolerable anxiety some people find great relief from low doses atypical anti-psychotics. By doing so they can avoid the addiction and dose tolerance profiles of benzos.

In my case, I rely on 1 -2 mg doses of clonazepam for intermittent bouts of anxiety. Sometimes I go for weeks with none. Other times I need 1-2 mg two or three times a day. If those higher doses are needed for more than a day or two, then we switch to 25-100 mg of Seroquel up to four times per day prn. The only side effect I seem to suffer from the Seroquel is transient drowsiness, which generally resolves after four to five days.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Antipsychotics can cause rebound psychosis and other symptoms opposite to the initial drug effects. The brain/body adapts to them just as it adapts to benzos; they both produce dependency and tolerance. Antipsychotics also have the potential for irreversible movement disorders.

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/27/11/2979

If I were to pick my poison out of psychiatric drugs, I sure as f*** wouldn't go with any dopamine antagonist unless I suffered from psychosis, or if my anxiety was severe and no safer/better drugs worked (including even high-dose benzos).


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## dan14 (Sep 3, 2009)

Quetiapine gave me siezures, quite bad ones as soon as i was takin off of it, havnt had one since, but everyone responds differntly to meds


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

There is a risk of development of tardive dyskinesia, an incurable neurological involuntary movement disorder, with any prolonged use, nuff said. 

Prescribing atypical antipsychotics just for pure insomnia, is insane.


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## Zombie Sheep (Oct 3, 2009)

I was on Olanzapine 10mg for years... I smoked too much weed. I was very mildly psychotic - apparently - I was paranoid as hell, everybody was muttering stuff about me and everybody I walked past in the street would swear at me. No voices or anything, thankfully. Funnily enough, soon as I took the meds it stopped, so I guess I was imagining it all. 

Anyway, long story short, it does help with anxiety, or at least the paranoid kind of anxiety. I take Velnafaxine now (Effexor) instead, and I'm the worst I've ever been. On Olanzapine I never hyperventilated, now my breathing has gone mental. I'm struggling to breathe right now.

But, good luck getting prescribed this for anxiety. It has a list of side-effects as long as your arm. However, I found Velnafaxine to be *much* worse - this stuff turns me into a zombie, and makes me feel permanently sick. So, there you go. If you are 'anxious and paranoid', and you don't mind craving carbohydrates and the risk of diabetes, then a low dose - 5mg or something - might sort you out, if you take an antidepressant as well. That's my experience, obviously I'm not a doctor or anything.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Zombie Sheep said:


> I was on Olanzapine 10mg for years... I smoked too much weed. I was very mildly psychotic - apparently - I was paranoid as hell, everybody was muttering stuff about me and everybody I walked past in the street would swear at me. No voices or anything, thankfully. Funnily enough, soon as I took the meds it stopped, so I guess I was imagining it all.


I was watching a documentary about marijuana on TV the other night, and they interviewed this boy who'd turned psychotic after smoking weed (or it braught it out in him or whatever the case may actually be) and it was scary the stuff he was saying, like that voices in his head told him he was jesus, and had to start a revolution, and the voices in his head of people that he knew directing him to do all these odd things.


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## Zombie Sheep (Oct 3, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> I was watching a documentary about marijuana on TV the other night, and they interviewed this boy who'd turned psychotic after smoking weed (or it braught it out in him or whatever the case may actually be) and it was scary the stuff he was saying, like that voices in his head told him he was jesus, and had to start a revolution, and the voices in his head of people that he knew directing him to do all these odd things.


Poor kid. I don't smoke weed any more, it didn't mess me up too bad but I can see how it could trigger psychosis in certain people. I've always been *really* glad that I've never had to cope with that sort of thing - the voices and stuff. Nightmare.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Zombie Sheep said:


> Poor kid. I don't smoke weed any more, it didn't mess me up too bad but I can see how it could trigger psychosis in certain people. I've always been *really* glad that I've never had to cope with that sort of thing - the voices and stuff. Nightmare.


Yeah me too, I don't do it any more either, but it used to give me horrible depersonalisation and panic attacks, I noticed my thought patterns noticiably changed for the worst when on it, luckily it never manifested in something like psychosis, but I could easily see a mind state like that coming on from its use, I doubt it's as harmless as they claim.


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## Zombie Sheep (Oct 3, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Yeah me too, I don't do it any more either, but it used to give me horrible depersonalisation and panic attacks, I noticed my thought patterns noticiably changed for the worst when on it, luckily it never manifested in something like psychosis, but I could easily see a mind state like that coming on from its use, I doubt it's as harmless as they claim.


I'd go with that. If you smoke it now and again, it's harmless, but if you have an anxiety or psychotic illness and smoke it habitually it's gonna do you some serious long-term damage. At least if you smoke it for a good few years solid anyway. I reckon my social phobia would be a lot better now if I hadn't touched the stuff - I definately wouldn't be nearly as paranoid and suspicious about people.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Zombie Sheep said:


> I'd go with that. If you smoke it now and again, it's harmless, but if you have an anxiety or psychotic illness and smoke it habitually it's gonna do you some serious long-term damage. At least if you smoke it for a good few years solid anyway. I reckon my social phobia would be a lot better now if I hadn't touched the stuff - I definately wouldn't be nearly as paranoid and suspicious about people.


Maybe, although I only tried it about 5 times, after that I realised it wasnt agreeing with me and stopped. How often did you do it?


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## Zombie Sheep (Oct 3, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Maybe, although I only tried it about 5 times, after that I realised it wasnt agreeing with me and stopped. How often did you do it?


Hi again JM!

I started smoking halfway through 2000 and finished at the end of 2007. It was more or less every day - really - I knew a lot of dealers at the time and me and my handful of mates never did much else. Basically I chain smoked all day, even at work (when I did work).

Not much of a life really, just lounging around playing console games and talking complete rubbish. I took a break of a few months in 2003 when I tried to give up, but it didn't last long - so basically I was smoking non stop for nearly 7 years.

I hate myself for wasting my life like that. I never had the energy to overcome my social phobia - it's like being in a bubble - so I just ended up turning into the sad, paranoid hermit I am now. Weed makes you okay with being lonely and bored. It's addictive too - people think there are no withdrawls but there definately are.

In moderation it's fine of course, but it's too easy to get into a habit imho.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I was on Geodon for a period - even the weakest dose was too much for me. I was so groggy all the time from a med taken at night. It did not have any ill effects other than it was too strong for me.


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## dvod88 (Aug 13, 2009)

I have been taking Zoloft 200mg and Klonopin 3mg/day for about a year now, with some success but not nearly enough to help my avoidance. Recently I saw a new Psychiatrist and he suggested titrate down the Klonpin and add 5mg Abilify along with Vistoril 50mg.

Ive been on the two new meds for a month now. The vistoril is of no use whatsoever for me. Abilify has been an interesting experince for me. It has helped with the obsesive thoughts and dweling. BUT it has bascily flatlined my affect. I went out to a movie the other day for the first time in years and I got though it which should have been a big deal for me, unfortunatly I didnt have much feeling one way or the other. 

I often feel like nothing matters, but the depression that usualy follows that has gone. It has killed my short term memory, and is causing more studdering then usual for me. I'm trying to decide if I should stay on it. There seems to be more negatives then positives but the one positive was a realy big one.

Does anybody have experince with abilify's side effects wearing off, particularly the memory, studdering and apathy? Its been a month so I'm assuming they are here to stay :blank


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Zombie Sheep said:


> Hi again JM!
> 
> I started smoking halfway through 2000 and finished at the end of 2007. It was more or less every day - really - I knew a lot of dealers at the time and me and my handful of mates never did much else. Basically I chain smoked all day, even at work (when I did work).


Wow! part of me is impressed, coz I think you might have just upstaged bob marley and some of those gangsta rappers lol.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Consider the brains wake system (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, histamine, acetylcholine.) Then consider that most atypical antipsychotics antagonize *all* of these systems (dopamine antagonism, 5HT-2 antagonism, norepinephrine alpha-1 antagonism, antihistaminergic, and anticholinergic) and it's really no suprise that these are labelled "major" tranquilizers. Using them for anything outside of psychotic symptoms seems like overkill.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

These companies aren't technically ALLOWED to advertise drugs for off-label uses, and are slapped with massive fines when they do. Still, it's unfortunately commonplace.

Aripiprazole has some interesting properties that I would consider trying it, but I've tried three of the "normal" atypical antipsychotics and they are just barbaric. I'm sure they work for anxiety and agitated depression because they basically demolish any emotion and creative thought you might actually otherwise have. If being a zombie feels like a cure for depression for you, be my guest, but I've tried that route and I'd still rather feel the hopelessness, worthlessness, helplessness, the guilt, the pain and all those ****ty things than feel nothing at all.

The fact that it's popularly used as a sleep-aid before even trying benzos just disgusts me. The dependence/addiction issues may be worse with benzos but you can get through withdrawals eventually, and safely if medically monitored. Antipsychotics can leave you with permanent movement disorders, diabetes, etc. **** any psychiatrist who sees that as the better option, they should be forced to try that **** on themselves before prescribing them off-label.


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## Dangerous (Oct 21, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> I was watching a documentary about marijuana on TV the other night, and they interviewed this boy who'd turned psychotic after smoking weed (or it braught it out in him or whatever the case may actually be) and it was scary the stuff he was saying, like that voices in his head told him he was jesus, and had to start a revolution, and the voices in his head of people that he knew directing him to do all these odd things.


That's crazy, but believable. I was thrown in the psych ward by my *** hole step dad, because he wanted me out of the house, and the cops said they couldn't evict me.. the only way they could take me away is if I was suicidal, so he said I was trying to kill myself which was bull, maybe after I got out of that crazy place!

When I was in there, there was this kid, like 18 that got put in there because he thought he was jesus and kept going up to people in the hospital and laying hands on them and I guess trying to perform miracle. It's sad, but kinda funny though he like perfectly normal other than "thinking he was jesus". I read somewhere that is like the most common delusional thought to have. I heard a story I don't know if it's true or not, that some guy continually thought he was the second coming of Christ and the psychiatrist didn't know what to do for him anymore so he sent him to this "spiritual healer" who said he could heal him. So the healer guys or whatever was got fed up with him and was like okay if your Jesus, come back tomorrow. So, when he came back the guy built a huge cross and put it in his office, and asked the guy are you still Jesus? He said yes. So he goes okay if your still jesus I got some nail and a hammer and made him stand on the cross. Then he took a hammer and nails and got ready to hammer him to the cross, and asked are you still Jesus? The guy screamed NO, NO! and was cured ever since. :haha

Anyways, I do think pot can cause emotional problems for the long run or atleast the short term for some people. I smoked like a ounce a week, I am not d*ick sizing here, because I think it has alot to do with my social anxiety , that and a dysfunctional family. It made me want to get high..lol I sat around and smoked all day I didn't care about anything back then (like 13 years old) and when I got around people I was too paranoid to talk because I was always gone.

However, I still think it needs to be legalized. It has medicinal values for sure. Try telling a cancer patient who cant hold down her food that she can't smoke weed. I used to smoke, after I gave up being a pot head because of my stomach problems (CVS). I don't have to now because I have a doc that gives me marinol, which I use sparingly and is FAR less superior than the real thing. (like if you throwing up how are you going to hold down a pill that takes a hour to work). Pot is now legal to grow I think up to 5 plant in Michigan for my disorder. I would get a card but the people who I live with wouldn't understand, even though they see what I go through, because it the devil weed..lol


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Dangerous said:


> That's crazy, but believable. I was thrown in the psych ward by my *** hole step dad, because he wanted me out of the house, and the cops said they couldn't evict me.. the only way they could take me away is if I was suicidal, so he said I was trying to kill myself which was bull, maybe after I got out of that crazy place!
> 
> When I was in there, there was this kid, like 18 that got put in there because he thought he was jesus and kept going up to people in the hospital and laying hands on them and I guess trying to perform miracle. It's sad, but kinda funny though he like perfectly normal other than "thinking he was jesus". I read somewhere that is like the most common delusional thought to have. I heard a story I don't know if it's true or not, that some guy continually thought he was the second coming of Christ and the psychiatrist didn't know what to do for him anymore so he sent him to this "spiritual healer" who said he could heal him. So the healer guys or whatever was got fed up with him and was like okay if your Jesus, come back tomorrow. So, when he came back the guy built a huge cross and put it in his office, and asked the guy are you still Jesus? He said yes. So he goes okay if your still jesus I got some nail and a hammer and made him stand on the cross. Then he took a hammer and nails and got ready to hammer him to the cross, and asked are you still Jesus? The guy screamed NO, NO! and was cured ever since. :haha
> 
> ...


Ah step dads, don't ya just hate them.

But yeah apparently the jesus thing is common, and some psychologists actually tell the schizophrinc patients to go to the beds of sick people and perform their "miracles", it's actually a form of therapy which I can't remember the name of, then they bring the schizophrenics back a week later too see if their "miracles" have worked and when they see they havn't sometimes it helps them realsie that their not ..jesus.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

arth67 said:


> the older antipsychotics were popular for anxiety, especially before valium came along, they are now considered worthless.
> 
> would like to hear from anyone whos anxiety was reduced by them.


well ive taken Prolixin and its helped the racing thoughts caused by anxiety. risperidone has helped me the most with auditory hallucinations but not anxiety.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

really really really low dose risperdal and zyprexa, like less than half the lowest reccomended starting dose...was really helpful to me in my time of severe OCD, depression, and anxiety. it basically took away the pain and alot of the suffering...but also all the emotion. i watched the super bowl, and felt not much at all....and i gained weight...but i agree they really do stink if you aren't psychotic or dont' have severe OCD. they really do tranquilize you...


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## jordo (Sep 3, 2009)

lazy said:


> How do you know if your anxiety is of psychotic nature?


Paranoia along schizophrenic lines describes this. Does your anxiety follow delusions etc.


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## jordo (Sep 3, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Antipsychotics can cause rebound psychosis and other symptoms opposite to the initial drug effects. The brain/body adapts to them just as it adapts to benzos; they both produce dependency and tolerance. Antipsychotics also have the potential for irreversible movement disorders.
> 
> http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/27/11/2979
> 
> If I were to pick my poison out of psychiatric drugs, I sure as f*** wouldn't go with any dopamine antagonist unless I suffered from psychosis, or if my anxiety was severe and no safer/better drugs worked (including even high-dose benzos).


I've taken typical antipsychotics and I have to agree with you about rebound psychosis. I suffered more real hallucinations while on them.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

jordo said:


> I've taken typical antipsychotics and I have to agree with you about rebound psychosis. I suffered more real hallucinations while on them.


Shouldn't rebound psychosis mean you get it when you stop the drug?


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

meyaj said:


> The fact that it's popularly used as a sleep-aid before even trying benzos just disgusts me. The dependence/addiction issues may be worse with benzos but you can get through withdrawals eventually, and safely if medically monitored. Antipsychotics can leave you with permanent movement disorders, diabetes, etc. **** any psychiatrist who sees that as the better option, they should be forced to try that **** on themselves before prescribing them off-label.


I've heard about memory problems, but permanent movement disorders as well? I believe I was prescribed Risperidone for off-label treatment and I'm pretty much convinced I'm not going to take it.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> I've heard about memory problems, but permanent movement disorders as well? I believe I was prescribed Risperidone for off-label treatment and I'm pretty much convinced I'm not going to take it.


Depending on how long you're supposed to be taking risperidone, it's not a bad antipsychotic to try in low doses. Some people ARE helped by these drugs. Risperidone is at least probably the ideal one to try. The only one I would regard as more preferable would be palliperidone (Invega), which is actually a metabolite of risperidone, although it's new and quite expensive.

As much as I hate antipsychotics, I still think it's worth trying them for yourself. Trying risperidone for a week or two should be harmless.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

I think I've seen more people bloated up on risperidone than any other drug. If I wanted to become a sumo wrestler I might consider it.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

scarpia said:


> I think I've seen more people bloated up on risperidone than any other drug. If I wanted to become a sumo wrestler I might consider it.


Really? That's not typical. The sedating/antihistaminergic atypicals (seroquel/zyprexa) are waaaay more known for weight gain.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

That's what I saw in my two years in the psych hospital. They were putting lots of people on risperidone - it was a fairly new wonder drug back then. It seemed to me that people were better off on haldol. I thought the drug companies were pushing risperidone because it was new and they could make more money off of it. I remember a girl who was able to lose 30 pounds when they took her off risperidone and put her on haldol. It's possible they reduced her dose and that's why she lost the weight.


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