# Why do some kids hate school?



## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm sure I could look up the reason on the internet, but I thought I'd ask here for some opinions as well.

Why do some kids hate school? I went to talk to a couple of high school kids and I told them how wonderful university and school are and how much they enrich my mind with undescribably valuable information. They told me: "School is like a forced prison". What the heck? I don't understand this reaction.

How can you not love school? Do you have some sort of a mental problem then? Do you have a domestic problem? I'm sure there is a problem. Without school, I would be a jobless bum, bumping around from crappy job to crappy job without a stable life whatsoever and overloaded with responsibilities and social/financial/life problems. Maybe the kids don't realize this will happen to them if they don't do well in school?

In any case, maybe I'm just a nerd, but I absolutely loved every class I was in; especially sciences: math, earth sciences, biology, chemistry, physics, history, .. you name it! I mean, how can you not love those? Galileo and how he showed us views of the world, String theory, the mysteries of the universe.. I could go on all day naming all the useful information I learned about the world, especially with math and physics.

I don't understand these kids..


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Hmm, too bad for high schoolers then. At university we are all adults. We don't have to excuse ourselves to go to the bathroom. In fact, if we ask that, it often results in a small laughter from the student audience because of the comic undertone.

I don't see the problem with reading from a book. The stuff that is in the book is exciting for me. However, it can indeed be a drag if you know what the teacher is going to say. It is actually a good way to introduce the students into some structure: you do all the exercises and chapters linearly until you finish the book; this is good for some disciplines. Now at university, I am a more organized person thanks to this structured approach. I have a better time organizing myself in a senior course called 'Project Management'. All those seemingly boring drills are useful: teacher introduce you to a structured approach, so you can copy that (because that's good) and at the same time they teach you manners, because leaving a room while someone else is trying to talk to you is a lack of manners.


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## Raynic781 (Feb 8, 2013)

s12345 said:


> Hmm, too bad for high schoolers then. At university we are all adults. We don't have to excuse ourselves to go to the bathroom. In fact, if we ask that, it often results in a small laughter from the student audience because of the comic undertone.
> 
> I don't see the problem with reading from a book. The stuff that is in the book is exciting for me. However, it can indeed be a drag if you know what the teacher is going to say. It is actually a good way to introduce the students into some structure: you do all the exercises and chapters linearly until you finish the book; this is good for some disciplines. Now at university, I am a more organized person thanks to this structured approach. I have a better time organizing myself in a senior course called 'Project Management'. All those seemingly boring drills are useful: teacher introduce you to a structured approach, so you can copy that (because that's good) and at the same time they teach you manners, because leaving a room while someone else is trying to talk to you is a lack of manners.


I had two teachers in high school that would laugh at us if we asked to go to the bathroom. Every other teacher made a big deal out of it if we even had to use the bathroom. I had a love/hate relationship with high school. I absolutely loved my English, Art, and Criminal Justice classes. I hated everything else! My teachers were really good though, I even had one that let us do whatever we wanted (play cards, play on our phones). I don't know why other kids hate high school, my HS experience was pretty decent.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Raynic781 said:


> I had two teachers in high school that would laugh at us if we asked to go to the bathroom. Every other teacher made a big deal out of it if we even had to use the bathroom. I had a love/hate relationship with high school. I absolutely loved my English, Art, and Criminal Justice classes. I hated everything else! My teachers were really good though, I even had one that let us do whatever we wanted (play cards, play on our phones). I don't know why other kids hate high school, my HS experience was pretty decent.


Same here.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

https://www.khanacademy.org/khan-co...t+after+test+cohort+made+042614&utm_content=A

This just shows how inadequate high school teachers seem to be.. If there are 2 billion questions from the 13 million students, that means each student has about 153 questions.. I think the education system is messed up. The teachers should explain the things to each student until the student gets it - and they shouldn't give up if the student doesn't understand it after 50 times.


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

I don't like being corralled like a goat and forced to sit and listen to someone telling me stuff while sitting around a bunch of other people I don't give a crap about. I like math and science and I got good marks in school but I still hated school. I learn better when I read about it independently. I never paid attention to anything in class.


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## Puppet Master (Jan 1, 2012)

To me you are odd I hated school because it merely became a prison I was...

1. Under daily attack (mentally, physically, and emotionally)
2. Due to multiple learning disorders I struggled with a lot of the work
3. Suffering from extreme isolation (ie I was friendless)
4. Taught lots of useless nonsense

**** there was NOTHING good about school for me. High School I enjoyed simply because people were afraid of me so the roles were reversed.


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## ASB20 (Jun 5, 2013)

High school was an extreme bore. Not lying, I've learned much more just from screwing around the internet (even in academic subjects) than I did in high school, which seemed much more about fulfilling specific educational system requirements than actually teaching.

IE, the educators wanted people to pass the tests. That was easy for me, so I was left with little to do but doodle on pieces of paper. 

Add to that I pretty much disappeared into the crowd the last 3 years of HS (wasn't bullied or anything, but I was just "there") and it makes HS a complete waste of time. No friends, so no social life. Even as a member of the sports team I was on, the nature of the sport (I was a sprinter) meant that there wasn't as much camaraderie as something like team-oriented football, hoops, or whatnot. 

Here's what I got out of it.

A HS degree.
Admission to a good college.

That's it. I barely remember any teachers' names, nor what I did in those classes, because I was mentally elsewhere during half of those times. I learned better from taking the textbooks and teaching myself the stuff, since I'm not an audio-oriented learner. If I finished the work in half the time everyone else did, it was up to me to entertain myself for the rest of the class.

I sympathize with students who need all the time and extra instruction, but for some of us, HS's nothing but a boring memory. In my current job, I barely use any of the stuff I learned. 

Now college, that **** I use. But I ain't arguing with college's value. College allows you to work at your own pace, on your own time except for limited classes that take up much less weekly time, and how you want to learn. If you don't go to class in college, the cops won't break down your door like if you miss school for no reason in HS. You just miss class; bummer, you need to learn the stuff you missed. That teaches a lot more responsibility.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Ape in space said:


> I don't like being corralled like a goat and forced to sit and listen to someone telling me stuff while sitting around a bunch of other people I don't give a crap about. I like math and science and I got good marks in school but I still hated school. I learn better when I read about it independently. I never paid attention to anything in class.


It's ironic your picture is of an ape because you seem to be forgetting human contact is a human necessity. People need to be around people.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Puppet Master said:


> To me you are odd I hated school because it merely became a prison I was...
> 
> 1. Under daily attack (mentally, physically, and emotionally)
> 2. Due to multiple learning disorders I struggled with a lot of the work
> ...


I find it sad to see you did not have the insight on why the things you were taught were important. At university now, I see how they were important. I hope you will have that same insight someday. I can firmly say that nothing taught in school is unimportant.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

ASB20 said:


> High school was an extreme bore. Not lying, I've learned much more just from screwing around the internet (even in academic subjects) than I did in high school, which seemed much more about fulfilling specific educational system requirements than actually teaching.
> 
> IE, the educators wanted people to pass the tests. That was easy for me, so I was left with little to do but doodle on pieces of paper.
> 
> ...


Oh I'm sorry you big genius, but I took more than two weeks to study for each test. High school was rather hard for me. I had to solve mathematical equations spanning pages. I had to calculate integrals. Oh yes, that is all so easy peasy. Yes, I also daily required an after-school teacher to teach me the stuff the teachers were not seeming to get into my head. Nonetheless, I am the brightest guy in my class at university and I have very intelligent friends. The fault of me needing all the effort to study extra? Well, my parents taught me to fight hard and the teachers don't do a good job at teaching me.

College allows you to work at your own pace?! Now, I'm not sure what you mean there, but the prestigious university I study at completely surpasses my pace. I have to study day in day out to barely keep up with classes.


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## copper (Nov 10, 2003)

It was the constant bullying that made school miserable for me. the bullys were popular so the friends I had turned on me because they wanted to be friends with the popular crowd. So they started to engage in the bullying.


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## copper (Nov 10, 2003)

s12345 said:


> It's ironic your picture is of an ape because you seem to be forgetting human contact is a human necessity. People need to be around people.


Yeah all that human contact did me a lot of good. :roll


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

copper said:


> Yeah all that human contact did me a lot of good. :roll


I'm probably the socially healthiest guy here. I keep forgetting I'm on a website with socially anxious people. Sorry you don't enjoy social contact.

By the way, social contact helps you survive.


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## Tensor (Mar 9, 2013)

s12345 said:


> How can you not love school? Do you have some sort of a mental problem then? Do you have a domestic problem?





s12345 said:


> the prestigious university I study at





s12345 said:


> I'm probably the socially healthiest guy here. I keep forgetting I'm on a website with socially anxious people.


I'm sure all of us are bowing to your superiority now. Have you gotten what you wanted out of this thread?


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Tensor said:


> I'm sure all of us are bowing to your superiority now. Have you gotten what you wanted out of this thread?


Praise to me by making me a statue:










Good Minecraft idea.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Probably because a lot of schools, particularly high schools, are taught horribly. They emphasize rote memorization over actual understanding and critical thinking.

For instance, I remember in English courses trying to memorize random bits of information from readings for quizzes, such as "which was the first line of Act 3 Scene II of Romeo and Juliet?" or "What color was _____ character's hat?"

Then you have math classes where you memorize formulas and procedures without understanding what they do, science classes where you memorize long names for things you don't understand, history classes where you memorize names of battles you'll never care about again (or you could Google in the off-chance you ever do), etc, etc. 

Worst of all is the amount of wasted time. Even in a 12th grade AP English course (the idea is this counts as college credit and is taught at a college level), we were coloring pictures of vocabulary words. Doing art or "creative" projects (also known as wasting more time). 95% of what I learned in high school was useless, dry, and frustrating.

That's without even getting into anxiety problems and the issues that social interaction bring out...


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> Probably because a lot of schools, particularly high schools, are taught horribly. They emphasize rote memorization over actual understanding and critical thinking.
> 
> For instance, I remember in English courses trying to memorize random bits of information from readings for quizzes, such as "which was the first line of Act 3 Scene II of Romeo and Juliet?" or "What color was _____ character's hat?"
> 
> ...


You used Google? Back in 1992 when I was in high school, we didn't have Google. It didn't exist yet..

I don't know what sort of high school you went to, but I went to a private school. We had nice uniforms with ties and handkerchiefs in our jackets - all very respectable. We were required to do critical thinking of course - especially in the areas of science. There was also a special skill enlisted called 'reflecting'.

When any course would start, we would get a list of books (average list of 5 books) to read upon so we would get familiar with the topic. So what did I do? Of course, not only was it mandatory to read these books but I did more. After school I immediately rushed to my public library - full of joy and happiness in my face - eager to learn about new concepts that would inform me more about this peculiar planet and this observable and distant universe we live on. I learned about philosophers, Sir Isaac Newton, the wonderful secrets of gravity and Brownian motion, the beauty of Galileo's discoveries, dinosaurs, masterful battles of bloodshed from history classes. The lessons were so exciting I was actually daydreaming about such battles (that's how I learned that the color Magenta came from a place in Italy called Magenta), mythology,.. Oh, it was so beautiful. How can you not care for people who fought for you to have the very freedom and luxury you have today? Come on.. I remember the time I picked up my first book on HTML in 1994.. I remember when I learned about cancer and T-cell mutation, DNA, RNA,.. good times. Thanks to whom? Thanks to high school and thanks to my teachers who made me read this stuff.

I quickly became distanced (part of my social anxiety) from the average Joe who naturally felt to me as inferior. Yes, I actually felt that way - and how else could you? Your average kid went up to you talking about mainstream things which bored my mind out. No one was interested in science except some other nerds I knew.

In any case: my experience with school was largely based on library visits and exciting reading at home. As you can see, internet can be a disadvantage because it puts the information accessible to you right there. You no longer feel the need to look it up. As you read: with my classes I was forced to read books and I don't regret a single time I had to. Sheer memorization? I do not for a second recall such foul practices. All I recall was the years of beautiful critical thinking about the things we were taught and the flourishing thoughts blooming further thereof. Questions like "What color was _____ character's hat?" were asked in kindergarten. Questions like "which was the first line of Act 3 Scene II of Romeo and Juliet?" were last asked to me I think I recall I was 6 years old in grade 1 of elementary school. Memorization - no, I don't recall it that way. I understand and practiced the things I studied.

I think you should take up the university courses Philosophy I, II and III (which I took as well) and then it will be clear to you why you took up all that seemingly useless information. The truth is: it was not useless. Everything in life - especially your studies, your cultural identity - has a purpose. I hope you will discover this truth sometime in your philosophical journey.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

s12345 said:


> You used Google? Back in 1992 when I was in high school, we didn't have Google. It didn't exist yet..
> 
> I don't know what sort of high school you went to, but I went to a private school. We had nice uniforms with ties and handkerchiefs in our jackets - all very respectable. We were required to do critical thinking of course - especially in the areas of science. There was also a special skill enlisted called 'reflecting'.
> 
> ...


Whatever your experience, my experiences (and I'm sure I'm not alone) were not of critical thinking, but of memorization. You focused a lot on my brief mention of Google, but I only brought up Google as a way of explaining why memorizing battles is useless - they could just be Googled if you ever needed the information!

I do appreciate your response, though. I just think it's unfortunate the way many public schools are run, because they don't encourage critical thinking or teach meaningful material at all. Maybe if 95% of classes weren't spent either a) repeating material or b) doing nothing of importance whatsoever, school would be more interesting for many kids.



> I think you should take up the university courses Philosophy I, II and III (which I took as well) and then it will be clear to you why you took up all that seemingly useless information. The truth is: it was not useless. Everything in life - especially your studies, your cultural identity - has a purpose. I hope you will discover this truth sometime in your philosophical journey.


But your studies have no purpose if their extent is cram information the night before a test and promptly forget it the next day, which inevitably will happen if you never see or use it again. Also, it doesn't take an expert in philosophy to realize that "purpose" is relative.

Anyway, I am almost certainly going to take a philosophy course for a distribution requirement next semester, I'm just deciding between Deductive Reasoning and Metaphysics. I'm kind of looking forward to it


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

This might sound bizarre...but I'm a very successful student (Ivy League grad school) and I freaking hate classes. HATE IT. I dislike being told what to learn and I find very few classes inspiring. I get bored very easily and I don't pay attention in class. I'd rather be in the lab teaching myself "on the fly" or seeking out experts on my terms. 

I can't blame kids for hating school if they have cookie cutter classes. Students don't get a chance to create and problem solve. It's like the teachers are saying " learn this bc I said so, it'll be on a test, and it might be useful". It kind of is a prison. The majority of students need to be engaged in the material to learn. They need to see that what they are learning is relevant and COOL.


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## AceEmoKid (Apr 27, 2012)

The educational system doesn't suit everyone's needs and desires. Most just suffer through it to get their piece of paper that will supposedly help them find a "satisfying and successful" career.

All I know is that I didn't learn **** by going to school. I zoned out during lectures due to ADD and an auditory processing problem I never got disability support services for, since my school district was so exhaustively idiotic about paperwork and legal frivolities. I only got good grades by writing my way through any assignments I could, and then going back and researching on the internet at home for other work. The school doesn't care about you, unless of course you are some talented athlete winning them trophies, a club leader or academically well endowed school representative, or you come from a long line of alumni donors. Oh, and if you're a troublemaker. If you disobey the school laws, they'll _definitely_ care about you and your behaviour, though not in the way you'd like. Anyone who threatens the status quo will not be tolerated.

Most schools are just brainwashing facilities based upon inane "common core" and unvaried "teaching" methods.

Also, OP, your elitism is charming.


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## pati (Aug 15, 2012)

Because they haven't been in the real world yet and don't have bills.


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## Jyang772 (Apr 17, 2014)

Tensor said:


> I'm sure all of us are bowing to your superiority now. Have you gotten what you wanted out of this thread?


I like this goat. 
He is very nice goat.

шрек любовь, шрек жизнь


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

failoutboy said:


> Were you really in high school in 1992? You are a lot older than I thought. I should give you more respect!


Yes, I was. Thanks


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> Whatever your experience, my experiences (and I'm sure I'm not alone) were not of critical thinking, but of memorization. You focused a lot on my brief mention of Google, but I only brought up Google as a way of explaining why memorizing battles is useless - they could just be Googled if you ever needed the information!
> 
> I do appreciate your response, though. I just think it's unfortunate the way many public schools are run, because they don't encourage critical thinking or teach meaningful material at all. Maybe if 95% of classes weren't spent either a) repeating material or b) doing nothing of importance whatsoever, school would be more interesting for many kids.
> 
> ...


Ours was extremely focused on metaphysics and anthropology. I really recommend looking into metaphysics. It is very interesting matter and it is that that will give you more insight into life. At least it did for me. Newton, DesCartes, Leibniz, Pascal. I'm sure you'll here these four names often.

My studies have a far greater purpose than to simply cram information.. last time I crammed was when I was 6 years old.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

AceEmoKid said:


> The educational system doesn't suit everyone's needs and desires. Most just suffer through it to get their piece of paper that will supposedly help them find a "satisfying and successful" career.
> 
> All I know is that I didn't learn **** by going to school. I zoned out during lectures due to ADD and an auditory processing problem I never got disability support services for, since my school district was so exhaustively idiotic about paperwork and legal frivolities. I only got good grades by writing my way through any assignments I could, and then going back and researching on the internet at home for other work. The school doesn't care about you, unless of course you are some talented athlete winning them trophies, a club leader or academically well endowed school representative, or you come from a long line of alumni donors. Oh, and if you're a troublemaker. If you disobey the school laws, they'll _definitely_ care about you and your behaviour, though not in the way you'd like. Anyone who threatens the status quo will not be tolerated.
> 
> ...


Anyone who threatens the status quo will not be tolerated. -> This is true because last year a student got thrown out of class and got called 'a ridiculous idiot' while at it, just because he happened to disagree with the professor.

Yes, I am an academically well-endowed school representative. Last year and the year before that I ran the 3.1 mile run in 17 minutes and the year before I ran the 1,5 mile fast-track in under 9 minutes. I'm pretty happy with my athletic self and I feel great at gym too.


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## AceEmoKid (Apr 27, 2012)

s12345 said:


> Yes, I am an academically well-endowed school representative. Last year and the year before that I ran the 3.1 mile run in 17 minutes and the year before I ran the 1,5 mile fast-track in under 9 minutes. I'm pretty happy with my athletic self and I feel great at gym too.


Not sure if you understood the sarcasm in the final statement of my original post or chose to ignore it.

It is no wonder why you enjoy school. Evidently, based on your other posts in this thread, you came from one of the lucky schools that does not promote rote memorization and instead actually _does_ foster critical thinking skills somewhat, as all schools should. Not only were you bred in fortunate circumstances, but the school system otherwise seems to be your forte. You agree, or at least tolerate, the way your school works, and because you fit so well in the system, you reaped the maximum benefits > became a "well endowed representative" > and thus the school really liked you and further aided your drive and success.

School didn't foster my drive for knowledge. It made true knowledge hard to find, and what we did "learn," endlessly boring. I love learning. On my own. Without professors watching over my shoulder and a class full of 30 rowdy students, most of whom don't want to be there and thus make a terrible effort, just like me.

Instead of asking whether we have mental or other problems, you should be asking what our _school system_ did to _us_. Another possibility for some who dislike school is that they simply aren't lovers of learning. And that can again be the school system's fault for either turning them off from learning or not teaching effectively, or these individuals simply value other aspects of life more.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

s12345 said:


> Ours was extremely focused on metaphysics and anthropology. I really recommend looking into metaphysics. It is very interesting matter and it is that that will give you more insight into life. At least it did for me. Newton, DesCartes, Leibniz, Pascal. I'm sure you'll here these four names often.


Yeah, if that one fits with the rest of my schedule, maybe I'll take it. Thanks 



> My studies have a far greater purpose than to simply cram information.. last time I crammed was when I was 6 years old.


Well this is ideal. The only point I'm trying to make is that the vast majority of high schools don't work like yours apparently did, and this fact answers the question in your OP. It's a problem with the school system, more so than it is a problem of the kids (in general)

My college experience has been much better. Challenging classes, de-emphasis on memorization in favor of understanding and being able to learn and apply new concepts, open-ended problems that let you draw from outside knowledge to come up with the best possible solution to a problem...it's great.

But this is what ALL education should be like, everywhere. Too many kids will never make it to the college level because a lot of lower-level education is structured horribly and caters only to performing well on standardized tests (in America, at least). It's quite the tragedy.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

s12345 said:


> How can you not love school? *Do you have some sort of a mental problem then?*


Seems a tad hypocritical of you, OP.


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## Thanatar18 (Apr 27, 2014)

School _is_ a forced prison. One meant for the improvement of society and all that, sure, and somewhat necessary and beneficial... but a forced prison nonetheless...

I doubt even people with tons of friends and a thriving social life would claim to like school itself, and as for the people who enjoy studying... I can imagine they might prefer it better, if they had more freedom....

That's just my opinion though. I've had good experiences and bad experiences, but I will say one thing that really played a big part in me becoming a recluse and leaving grade 11 in 2013 (halfway through the school year if I'm not wrong... or something like that) was my principal...

I'd already left and been a recluse for 2 months, withdrawing from society after my dad cut me off internet for over a month, as I saw no reason to go to school anymore. (internet was really my only motivation to go at that point, and even then I skipped) I'd returned, finding a whole lot more attention on me because I had skipped so much (not a good thing, the attention that is) and didn't last more than a few days, thanks to my piece of sh*t principal...

I had come on a school day to attend the first few morning classes, but basically had the day off after that because of most of my class going to band...
While having the day off, I used my laptop in the school library and the librarian told me not to use it for entertainment, but schoolwork. So I got up to leave, and she started to demand that I do schoolwork to catch up...
And I basically stated, that it was my free time- and that I'd go out of the school premises. At this point she started yelling at me about "disrespect" and went off to the school principal, who came and told me I had been "insulting" to the librarian (by not obeying).
Following my principles, I still refused to stay and catch up; it was my own time. But the principal demanded, and started to yell... and eventually I was so pissed off I yelled back.
Following this, she stated she would "call my father" if I did not go to the office and do schoolwork. So I did...
But I never went back again >


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## Thanatar18 (Apr 27, 2014)

Just remembered something else I'd like to note; which is that in some cases teachers can be the problem as well. While most of my teachers have always been fairly friendly, and decent people overall (yes, they might yell about homework and stuff, but that's what teachers do XD) I also had a terrible gym coach in junior high...

...yeah, this probably sounds cliche. Except I wasn't fat, or bad at athletics (except when I was half asleep thanks to playing minecraft all night)... If anything, I was slightly above average. Nonetheless, he picked on me constantly, pointing out mistakes I did even though others also made them, and making jokes at my expense.... I wasn't the only one treated this way though. He pretty much picked on all my classmates who werent "popular..." ...and additionally, he was a pervert to the popular girls in my class, and gave them preferential treatment. (he also gave this treatment to hockey players)

Basically, he was a d***wad and I hated him to no end.... and I suppose he knew it, too, because he was always accusing me of not running all the laps, or slacking off in some other way... when I did.


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## ASB20 (Jun 5, 2013)

s12345 said:


> Oh I'm sorry you big genius, but I took more than two weeks to study for each test. High school was rather hard for me. I had to solve mathematical equations spanning pages. I had to calculate integrals. Oh yes, that is all so easy peasy. Yes, I also daily required an after-school teacher to teach me the stuff the teachers were not seeming to get into my head. Nonetheless, I am the brightest guy in my class at university and I have very intelligent friends. The fault of me needing all the effort to study extra? Well, my parents taught me to fight hard and the teachers don't do a good job at teaching me.
> 
> College allows you to work at your own pace?! Now, I'm not sure what you mean there, but the prestigious university I study at completely surpasses my pace. I have to study day in day out to barely keep up with classes.


Entertaining response. Unfortunately, it invalidates your initial inquiry for opinions.

I gave you my opinion. You dismissed it. You're not actually looking for why people don't like schooling. You're looking for validation.

Seems like there are better ways to pursue that end. I'll leave your thread to you; feel free to have the last word in this exchange.


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## ilovejehovah777 (Apr 16, 2013)

school to me is sometimes too stressful ever since i entered middle school i started to develop this deep hatred towards school(i'm in high school now) i think probably because a lot terrible moments in my life took place at school.


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## prettyful (Mar 14, 2013)

i hated having no friends and eating lunch alone.


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

Primitive Fish said:


> This might sound bizarre...but I'm a very successful student (Ivy League grad school) and I freaking hate classes. HATE IT. I dislike being told what to learn and I find very few classes inspiring. I get bored very easily and I don't pay attention in class. I'd rather be in the lab teaching myself "on the fly" or seeking out experts on my terms.


having also had the ivy league experience i completely agree with this. in my undergrad and even in my current grad school cohort it has always seemed that those with the most ability and potential are the ones who disdain organized class, long study sessions, and the like. i myself cannot be productive unless i am in the field practicing my discipline. for me classes are torture and feel like a waste of time, and i do poorly in written in-class tests. i can never get over my feeling that hours spent in the classroom or memorizing stuff out of a book is inefficient.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> Yeah, if that one fits with the rest of my schedule, maybe I'll take it. Thanks
> 
> Well this is ideal. The only point I'm trying to make is that the vast majority of high schools don't work like yours apparently did, and this fact answers the question in your OP. It's a problem with the school system, more so than it is a problem of the kids (in general)
> 
> ...


Ah yes, this video comes to mind:





I think you'll agree with his statements there.  Chances are you've probably already seen it.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanatar18 said:


> School _is_ a forced prison. One meant for the improvement of society and all that, sure, and somewhat necessary and beneficial... but a forced prison nonetheless...
> 
> I doubt even people with tons of friends and a thriving social life would claim to like school itself, and as for the people who enjoy studying... I can imagine they might prefer it better, if they had more freedom....
> 
> ...


Ah yes, that reminds me. Any there there would be detention, kids at my school were 'forced' (not really, because they loved studying like I did) to 'catch up'/study.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanatar18 said:


> Just remembered something else I'd like to note; which is that in some cases teachers can be the problem as well. While most of my teachers have always been fairly friendly, and decent people overall (yes, they might yell about homework and stuff, but that's what teachers do XD) I also had a terrible gym coach in junior high...
> 
> ...yeah, this probably sounds cliche. Except I wasn't fat, or bad at athletics (except when I was half asleep thanks to playing minecraft all night)... If anything, I was slightly above average. Nonetheless, he picked on me constantly, pointing out mistakes I did even though others also made them, and making jokes at my expense.... I wasn't the only one treated this way though. He pretty much picked on all my classmates who werent "popular..." ...and additionally, he was a pervert to the popular girls in my class, and gave them preferential treatment. (he also gave this treatment to hockey players)
> 
> Basically, he was a d***wad and I hated him to no end.... and I suppose he knew it, too, because he was always accusing me of not running all the laps, or slacking off in some other way... when I did.


That guy is indeed a dick.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

prettyful said:


> i hated having no friends and eating lunch alone.


I hated that too.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

SPC said:


> having also had the ivy league experience i completely agree with this. in my undergrad and even in my current grad school cohort it has always seemed that those with the most ability and potential are the ones who disdain organized class, long study sessions, and the like. i myself cannot be productive unless i am in the field practicing my discipline. for me classes are torture and feel like a waste of time, and i do poorly in written in-class tests. i can never get over my feeling that hours spent in the classroom or memorizing stuff out of a book is inefficient.


I'm glad someone shares my view on education. It's very frustrating to be in an environment of over achievers and bookworms. I actually feel like a lot of them don't approve of the me...like I'm not good enough to be there bc I don't love class and seminars. I've only experienced this at the Ivy League school. Did you have a similar experience?


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

Primitive Fish said:


> I'm glad someone shares my view on education. It's very frustrating to be in an environment of over achievers and bookworms. I actually feel like a lot of them don't approve of the me...like I'm not good enough to be there bc I don't love class and seminars. I've only experienced this at the Ivy League school. Did you have a similar experience?


exactly, i actually quit columbia because i found the environment in my program there to be suffocating. and like you i felt like this was an ivy thing, because in my undergrad (public ivy) i never experienced anything like that. i felt as though there was a lot of bitterness from those who studied a long time against those who didn't, as if the existence of those who didnt need to study that much was an affront to their worldview. that made for an atmosphere i was not comfy with in the end. in that cohort, classmates refused to help each other because they were trying to manipulate the curve and people would gossip about who didnt go to office hours and study sessions and all that. i couldnt relate to the kind of pressure those kids put on themselves, and how it was all connected to their pride in classroom achievement. at the introduction party so many of them got up and declared publicly that getting into columbia grad was the culmination of their lifelong dream as though there is no life after academia. i dont relate to that at all, i excel in the field and view higher education as only a means to gain access to more exclusive connections and resources that will make my experiences in the field richer.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

SPC said:


> exactly, i actually quit columbia because i found the environment in my program there to be suffocating. and like you i felt like this was an ivy thing, because in my undergrad (public ivy) i never experienced anything like that. i felt as though there was a lot of bitterness from those who studied a long time against those who didn't, as if the existence of those who didnt need to study that much was an affront to their worldview. that made for an atmosphere i was not comfy with in the end. in that cohort, classmates refused to help each other because they were trying to manipulate the curve and people would gossip about who didnt go to office hours and study sessions and all that. i couldnt relate to the kind of pressure those kids put on themselves, and how it was all connected to their pride in classroom achievement. at the introduction party so many of them got up and declared publicly that getting into columbia grad was the culmination of their lifelong dream as though there is no life after academia. i dont relate to that at all, i excel in the field and view higher education as only a means to gain access to more exclusive connections and resources that will make my experiences in the field richer.


That sounds awful. I always thought my school was pretty competitive, but (thankfully), it's nothing like that. That kind of environment can't be helpful for SA...


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## vanishingpt (Mar 9, 2012)

The answers will vary depending on who you ask of course. There's a difference between the school system and being educated. Learning something, gathering knowledge, and reaching that pivotal moment when you understand a concept on an intrinsic level can really hit the nail on the head. It's a good feeling knowing that you understand something inside and out. However not everyone reaches this point.

I was skimming through the thread and saw you posted the Ken Robinson video. It's a great one that talks about changing the factory system of school and getting rid of standardized testing. I don't think it's the most effective type of pedagogy and would like to see more collaborative efforts in school and less emphasis on standardized tests. I feel more students would be engaged in the classroom and a higher standard of education would be developed as well.

I think why a lot of kids may not like school is because they grew up not taking education seriously, their parents never did, things are going on at home, etc. there could be a million different reasons. It could be the style of teaching that doesn't allow the kid to reach their full potential (at the same time, effort has to be made by the student too even if they don't like a particular subject or teaching style).


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## TooLateForRoses (Apr 19, 2014)

Because half of the material we're taught in school is of very little importance in adulthood. Instead of teaching valuable life lessons kids are taught to memorize lines out of a textbook, Also in my own experience it seems like most teachers dont give a **** about educating their students and helping them reach their potential and are more concerned about getting a paycheck.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

vanishingpt said:


> It could be the style of teaching that doesn't allow the kid to reach their full potential (at the same time, effort has to be made by the student too even if they don't like a particular subject or teaching style).


Yes, this is often true.  That is indeed one of Dr. Robinson's points.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

TooLateForRoses said:


> Because half of the material we're taught in school is of very little importance in adulthood. Instead of teaching valuable life lessons kids are taught to memorize lines out of a textbook, Also in my own experience it seems like most teachers dont give a **** about educating their students and helping them reach their potential and are more concerned about getting a paycheck.


Seeing you are only 17 years old, I am not surprised you don't see the value of the material. When you reach university you will gain insight into why the material you are taught in school is useful. If you don't think it is useful, then sadly you do not grasp it. I'd suggest you start grasping it.


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> That sounds awful. I always thought my school was pretty competitive, but (thankfully), it's nothing like that. That kind of environment can't be helpful for SA...


it wasnt, and thats why i decided to transfer before i hit the point of no return. a lot of it was my fault though, i did almost no research when applying for programs and only applied to ones that were high ranked in the discipline without thinking about the non-academic consequences like lifestyle or cohort demographics. it turned out to be a drag i wasn't quite prepared for.


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## Kalliber (Aug 18, 2012)

The hood people, depending where you live. I live here and hated going to school, scared to get shot


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## Lorenientha (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't know what school is like where you live, but in my place it is an unorganised piece of ****, with most teachers being uninterested in their occupations, others being weak and bullied by their students, and only a few of them make it to actually teaching things in class. Schools are not sufficiently funded by the nation, and therefore we have a lack of material, labs, libraries and all the fancy things they have in other countries of the european union. More than half the students are careless, loud, unkind and come to school just because it's compulsory. 

Most of what is being taught to school is excess information not useful in everyday life, a good amount of which could be nicely taught in universities for those who are interested. There are also subjects that shouldn't be there and waste the students' time.

Because of school being ineffective in passing knowledge, there are afternoon schools that teach students the things they are supposed to learn at school. These are private businesses and of course they get paid. This way, the students who want to succeed in exams and get good grades have double the amount of work (and get to spend more money for their education). 

Personally I find school a big waste of time, since it doesn't work like one, and because I only study for the afternoon school in order to succeed in the so-called "national exams" to pass into the university department I want.


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## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

How exactly does school help in any way?


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## Robot the Human (Aug 20, 2010)

I wasn't really specifically targeted but seeing kids bullied raised my stress levels which was really worse than being bullied myself. Every day I kind of flinched, thinking I'd be next.

Teachers never took my word for things. One teacher actually thought I was lying about forgetting my book and lying about my first name. Why the hell would I lie and bring attention upon myself, clearly being shy? She called me by my middle name until my mom jumped her about it.

Once HS rolled around and there were no more recess activities and gym class, I had no escape from the constant mind drilling. I'm the type that needs physical activities along with some competition. I probably broke some records for missing so much school in the end because I had no physical activity to look forward to.

One last thing, that could have changed a lot for me: The classrooms were so spread out, like someone purposely did it to give us hell. Even the first year we began to switch classes, some classes were so far away it was nearly impossible to make it on time without stopping by your locker. Elementary, middle, and the HS building was all together. The first year, it was common for kids to carry like 8 heavy books without really using their lockers. Everyone's backpacks fell apart half way through the year, and it was just a pathetic mess. I would follow kids because I was so nervous I'd get lost in the school. I tried to explain that to the principal how I had anxiety and a struggle with direction, but of course I was ignored. If they had the rooms a bit more organized, I would have done much better. It was really intimidating being one of the shortest kids having to cross paths with high schoolers that seemed like towering adults.

Overall just a very pathetic, unorganized, half-assed school with zero respect for children and obsessed with education in all of the wrong ways.


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## Robot the Human (Aug 20, 2010)

Umpalumpa said:


> How exactly does school help in any way?


Well school did teach us that life is brutal. Not to mention, they are good about the basics like math and reading especially. One of the most important things I learned in school, is that there are no excuses and to always follow directions correctly the first time.


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## s2panda (Dec 8, 2013)

Yet so many people can't spell, read, or follow instructions. smh.


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## shadow27 (Apr 29, 2014)

I hated school because I was bullied by both pupils and teachers.

I loved learning but found it difficult to concentrate in class because I was so anxious all the time.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Lorenientha said:


> I don't know what school is like where you live, but in my place it is an unorganised piece of ****, with most teachers being uninterested in their occupations, others being weak and bullied by their students, and only a few of them make it to actually teaching things in class. Schools are not sufficiently funded by the nation, and therefore we have a lack of material, labs, libraries and all the fancy things they have in other countries of the european union. More than half the students are careless, loud, unkind and come to school just because it's compulsory.
> 
> Most of what is being taught to school is excess information not useful in everyday life, a good amount of which could be nicely taught in universities for those who are interested. There are also subjects that shouldn't be there and waste the students' time.
> 
> ...


I am perplexed. Our schools are fully equipped with the latest technology. Some schools even have their own forests and pool halls.

I wonder what country you live in. 
Let me just say this: if you understand politics, you will understand that all courses in high school are useful and purposeful. I advise you start learning about how a government works.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Umpalumpa said:


> How exactly does school help in any way?


Pure and simple: it helps you become a legal citizen.


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## davidc (Nov 20, 2008)

s12345 said:


> Pure and simple: it helps you become a legal citizen.


What does that even mean? This whole thread seems a bit trollish.

I didn't like school because it wasted time I could have spent educating myself and working on my own projects, rather than endlessly going over things at a snails pace which I already knew anyway.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

davidc said:


> What does that even mean? This whole thread seems a bit trollish.
> 
> I didn't like school because it wasted time I could have spent educating myself and working on my own projects, rather than endlessly going over things at a snails pace which I already knew anyway.


It means - Mr. forgot what was taught in school - that school is a public institution that lets you form part of the cultural identity of a nation.

If you want to know more about this, I suggest you take up some courses called philosophy and politics at an institution called a university. I don't have to tell you these things.  It requires higher education, young man.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

And the award for most condescending post of the year goes to.....


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## Lorenientha (Jul 22, 2013)

s12345 said:


> I am perplexed. Our schools are fully equipped with the latest technology. Some schools even have their own forests and pool halls.
> 
> I wonder what country you live in.
> Let me just say this: if you understand politics, you will understand that all courses in high school are useful and purposeful. I advise you start learning about how a government works.


The country is Greece, forgot to mention that.

I don't know what kind of subjects you have there, but I'm pretty sure that for you to say that, there must be something related to social and political studies, and perhaps something practical for people's life? I do believe that such courses are useful, and we have a subject named "social and political education" but it's rather pushed aside and considered unimportant by the majority of people, when in fact it could be one of the most important courses if taught properly. Practical education is nonexistent.

But how can ancient greek for example be compulsory for all students? Shouldn't it be optional for those who would like to explore it? What is its role in understanding politics? 
Or religion. Not everyone can be put in the same barrel and be taught about a single religion as a part of the educational programme. 
And when it comes to math, math is indeed needed, but I can't understand why we should solve complex polyonyms and stuff.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Lorenientha said:


> The country is Greece, forgot to mention that.
> 
> I don't know what kind of subjects you have there, but I'm pretty sure that for you to say that, there must be something related to social and political studies, and perhaps something practical for people's life? I do believe that such courses are useful, and we have a subject named "social and political education" but it's rather pushed aside and considered unimportant by the majority of people, when in fact it could be one of the most important courses if taught properly. Practical education is nonexistent.
> 
> ...


It is not easy to explain the role of the schooling system in politics (you would need to read up on metaphysics for that, but basically politics means: how do we run our nation? A nation is formed by what is known as discursive space. Each nation has their set of laws and moral justice. Laws are set up, rules are set up so that the people within that territory (nation) can be identified and can identify with their territory and the local culture. A place and a local culture binds a feeling of togetherness to a group of people known as a nation. A couple of institutions make sure these are created in place - a school being one of them, a court of justice, fire department, police station, etc.

Basically, the school system makes sure the people within the nation adhere to the laws of the discursive space. The school is the injector of culture. You need this culture so that you can be part of the system (like Morpheus says in 'The Matrix'). A system, so ingenuous, so well put together that the very people within it do not realize they are part of that very system and that they are dependent on it. Morpheus could not be more right - that is why that movie was a cornerstone of movies of critical and advanced thought and philosophy. So, you put a person in the school, out comes a citizen, i.e. a person that is now part of that nation because he or she know carries with him or her the culture that is local to the territory/discursive space. This is also important, because when it is war, people are called out and they need to identify with their nation. If they do not have a cultural identity then they are known as 'stateless', a state of identity which is best avoided.

I could go on all day about Jeremy Bentham and all those guys but I won't. 

Well, I hope you somewhat understood the main point.

Oh right, the polyonyms. Well, you need those to train your brain into creative thought. The more you push for the power of your brain, the better it will perform over time and.. ultimately the higher your IQ will be because you can handle a variety of situations in quick adaption. 
Yes, religion is a special thing. Again, the religion has to do with the local culture.. religion is part of culture. Culture is part of nation.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Do people ever really understand people who are different? No.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

SPC said:


> exactly, i actually quit columbia because i found the environment in my program there to be suffocating. and like you i felt like this was an ivy thing, because in my undergrad (public ivy) i never experienced anything like that. i felt as though there was a lot of bitterness from those who studied a long time against those who didn't, as if the existence of those who didnt need to study that much was an affront to their worldview. that made for an atmosphere i was not comfy with in the end. in that cohort, classmates refused to help each other because they were trying to manipulate the curve and people would gossip about who didnt go to office hours and study sessions and all that. i couldnt relate to the kind of pressure those kids put on themselves, and how it was all connected to their pride in classroom achievement. at the introduction party so many of them got up and declared publicly that getting into columbia grad was the culmination of their lifelong dream as though there is no life after academia. i dont relate to that at all, i excel in the field and view higher education as only a means to gain access to more exclusive connections and resources that will make my experiences in the field richer.


My undergrad was a private liberal arts school. It was full of hipsters. Everyone worked hard, but the competitiveness wasn't there. At this school it's a completely diff animal. It's like...I'm sorry I don't want to go to an optional symposium, lead grad student events, listen to NPR, and study 6 hours a day. And yes...I do everything last minute. I'm using my intelligence to work LESS not more. I have a life. I see this as a job and not a lifestyle and people don't like that. I'm supposed to be pursuing higher levels of understanding for the hell of it. But I could care less about anything not related to my project.

I can understand that "this is the culmination of my life" mentality. My undergrad advisor was a little like that. Very successful and he encouraged the over achiever in me (best guy in the world though). I ended up biting off more than I could chew one semester and had a mental episode (SA induced panic/depression). It really changed my view of school and my career. I don't want my job to define me anymore and I'm going to do the minimum I need to do to be a strong candidate for jobs when I graduate.

I'm much happier, but I don't like the attitude I get when I say that I don't care what my exact project is or that I dislike class and seminar. I want to slap people. It's like every extreme type A personality got sucked into this school. The only benefits are resources and the name of the school does have some influence in job hunting/grants.


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

Primitive Fish said:


> It's like...I'm sorry I don't want to go to an optional symposium, lead grad student events, listen to NPR, and study 6 hours a day.





Primitive Fish said:


> I don't like the attitude I get when I say that I don't care what my exact project is or that I dislike class and seminar.


exactly. the looks i got when i said stuff like "i dont really want to write for the school journal" or "i havent even thought of what my capstones going to be". it was like i could see their opinions of me dropping in real time through their facial expressions.



Primitive Fish said:


> I don't want my job to define me anymore and I'm going to do the minimum I need to do to be a strong candidate for jobs when I graduate.


totally agree as well. much like i work to prevent anxiety from being one of the defining features of who i am, i dont want my professional identity to define my life either. the most important part of a high-profile grad program is the networking opportunities, and i am confident that my personality will help open those doors for me, not what my GPA was or how many trade journal citations i can recite from memory.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Primitive Fish said:


> My undergrad was a private liberal arts school. It was full of hipsters. Everyone worked hard, but the competitiveness wasn't there. I'm at Yale and it's a completely diff animal. It's like...I'm sorry I don't want to go to an optional symposium, lead grad student events, listen to NPR, and study 6 hours a day. And yes...I do everything last minute. I'm using my intelligence to work LESS not more. I have a life. I see this as a job and not a lifestyle and people don't like that. I'm supposed to be pursuing higher levels of understanding for the hell of it. But I could care less about anything not related to my project.
> 
> I can understand that "this is the culmination of my life" mentality. My undergrad advisor was a little like that. Very successful and he encouraged the over achiever in me (best guy in the world though). I ended up biting off more than I could chew one semester and had a mental episode (SA induced panic/depression). It really changed my view of school and my career. I don't want my job to define me anymore and I'm going to do the minimum I need to do to be a strong candidate for jobs when I graduate.
> 
> I'm much happier, but I don't like the attitude I get when I say that I don't care what my exact project is or that I dislike class and seminar. I want to slap people. It's like every extreme type A personality got sucked into this school. The only benefits are resources and the name of the school does have some influence in job hunting/grants.


Only 6? I have a steady rhythm of 12 hour study per day and I feel in harmony with it. I think it is a little immature, no offense, to be using the expression "I have a life". Life is how you choose to live it. I am happy studying all the time. It keeps me away from the trash called humanity.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

SPC said:


> exactly. the looks i got when i said stuff like "i dont really want to write for the school journal" or "i havent even thought of what my capstones going to be". it was like i could see their opinions of me dropping in real time through their facial expressions.
> 
> totally agree as well. much like i work to prevent anxiety from being one of the defining features of who i am, i dont want my professional identity to define my life either. the most important part of a high-profile grad program is the networking opportunities, and i am confident that my personality will help open those doors for me, not what my GPA was or how many trade journal citations i can recite from memory.


I hate to tell you this, but how well you do in your GPA and how well you do in your published scientific journals are the determining factor for your connections. No one wants to have anything to do with an underachiever. That is what is widely known at my university.


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

^ that depends heavily on your field because the standards for each school of study is vastly different.

if one is in a STEM field such as medicine or engineering then yes, fields like that are the ones more naturally attuned to existing academic practices. prestigious spots in such professions go to the candidates that work best with quantifiable data, so things like GPA and getting published matter more when you're trying to get your foot in the door at prestigious jobs and institutions.

however, in fields like social sciences and humanities (i do IDEV), GPA and publications simply do not matter much. i met people in the ivy league who were not legacies but who were admitted into the best schools in the world even though their undergrad GPAs were sub-3.0, but when you talk to them you realize why almost immediately: because even though their grades are bad they are innovative thinkers and problem solvers, and their recommendation letters and accomplishments outside academia was more than enough to convince admission boards. prestigious spots in such professions go to those who show an ability to lead, mediate and problem-solve quickly under pressure while in the field, all qualities that classwork and a grade scale cannot measure accurately.

i will agree that no one wants to have anything to do with an underachiever. however, in my experience in both academia and the real world (i worked for 4 years in between my undergrad and grad school), the underachiever is not the person who is getting an A when he could be studying 12 hours a day to get an A+ instead. the underachiever in the eyes of the world is the one who is capable of A/A+ work but does not have the social skills or personality or charisma to put theory into practice. there is more to being part of a team than just perfect grades. connections are like friendships, famous people and institutions choosing who they want to associated with. much like people, the ones who are unique are the most likely to be picked. a perfect GPA and publications out of academia are not unique in higher education circles. a person with well-rounded interests and varied experiences across their field is.

TLDR:



s12345 said:


> how well you do in your GPA and how well you do in your published scientific journals are the determining factor for your connections.


Perhaps true in your case, but untrue in many others, including mine.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

s12345 said:


> Only 6? I have a steady rhythm of 12 hour study per day and I feel in harmony with it. I think it is a little immature, no offense, to be using the expression "I have a life". Life is how you choose to live it. I am happy studying all the time. It keeps me away from the trash called humanity.


Lol. I'm 23. I'm allowed to say something immature every once in a while, especially when I'm venting about how I don't fit in with my classmates. It's hard for me to make friends and I'm lonely. The comment applies more to people who study all the time or work a ton and then complain about not having time for fun, hobbies, family or sleep. Some of them have frequent anxiety attacks. I made the choice to not live that lifestyle, but if someone is happy doing that...then good for them! 

When I'm dying and I ask myself if I've had regrets...I think I'd regret working too hard and not having enough fun or spending time with my loved ones. Everyone has their own definition of "living", but in my field and at this school, I feel like my personal view of life is looked down upon.

And "have a life" is about as immature as saying "trash called humanity". I agree that humanity can suck, but there's a lot of good out there too. It's not all trash. I'm not picking a fight, but pointing out that you should be careful about how you critique others. In both cases we are upset about other people and have a tainted view of the world. I think it's ok to let comments like that slip when we are venting. 

It is apparent that you truly love academic pursuits. If it makes you happy, then I'm genuinely happy for you!! Really. It's an awesome thing when you can find something to be passionate about.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

SPC said:


> ^ that depends heavily on your field because the standards for each school of study is vastly different.
> 
> if one is in a STEM field such as medicine or engineering then yes, fields like that are the ones more naturally attuned to existing academic practices.


I am an engineering student - yes.  As well, because my university is so prestigious, it already tells us those performance factors and forces us to have all those qualities that those Ivy league students have. So in fact, we are super students: all the qualities, flexibility and all the brains. That's why our university is prestigious.

Thanks to our two month internship we learn to work in the real world, in a real company, with real teams. 'Social sciences and humanities' are known as the 'dumber people' (no offense, it is just widely known at my university), next to the students from the Financial sector. Not much mental effort is required to pass there. They don't have to push their brain for heavy scientific matter like engineering and its solutions.

So I am proud to say we are innovative thinking, problem-solving, quickly-adaptive master minds. That is why one of my friends who graduated is now being head-hunted like crazy.
By underachiever I mean the person who gets D's and C's all the time, while he could be getting A's.



> a person with well-rounded interests and varied experiences across their field is.


Yes, that is why at our university we get prepared to be like that. We even have frequent job invites.

If like me, you are in higher education then I am baffled why you refuse to write in punctuation like any lettered person would write.. no offense.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

SPC said:


> the underachiever in the eyes of the world is the one who is capable of A/A+ work but does not have the social skills or personality or charisma to put theory into practice.


I think this is true, unfortunately (for me). I can work as hard as I want to get good grades, but I'll never be able to get to the level of social skills that I need to really be successful in life. I know at one point I wanted to go into research or maybe even academia, but I gave up pretty quickly on that after I realized I was completely incapable of interacting with professors to get research opportunities.

My hope is that a good education and good grades will take me far enough to at least get a decent job and make a decent life for myself, but we'll see I suppose.


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

s12345 said:


> I am an engineering student - yes.  As well, because my university is so prestigious, it already tells us those performance factors and forces us to have all those qualities that those Ivy league students have. So in fact, we are super students: all the qualities, flexibility and all the brains. That's why our university is prestigious.
> 
> Thanks to our two month internship we learn to work in the real world, in a real company, with real teams. 'Social sciences and humanities' are known as the 'dumber people' (no offense, it is just widely known at my university), next to the students from the Financial sector. Not much mental effort is required to pass there. They don't have to push their brain for heavy scientific matter like engineering and its solutions.
> 
> ...


good for you, obviously you take great pride in where you're at right now and arent afraid to show it, thats cool. and you can slag on humanities all you like (my fraternity class was mostly electrical engineering students so im used to the STEM student shoulder chips), but at the end of the day you study what you're passionate about and in whatever field that you can make the biggest difference in your own life and the lives of others. my field of study has brought me closer to the people around me and given me things that 4-5 years ago would have seemed impossible. so im happy 



s12345 said:


> If like me, you are in higher education then I am baffled why you refuse to write in punctuation like any lettered person would write.. no offense.


english is my second language so i just cant be bothered on the internet. i have nothing to prove anyway~~



Remnant of Dawn said:


> I think this is true, unfortunately (for me). I can work as hard as I want to get good grades, but I'll never be able to get to the level of social skills that I need to really be successful in life. I know at one point I wanted to go into research or maybe even academia, but I gave up pretty quickly on that after I realized I was completely incapable of interacting with professors to get research opportunities.
> 
> My hope is that a good education and good grades will take me far enough to at least get a decent job and make a decent life for myself, but we'll see I suppose.


like most other big systems, academia is one big patronage pyramid. you can be the smartest guy in the room but if people don't like you or you make them uncomfy they will not give you the time of day. even the most learned professors, academics, and researchers are humans not infallible robots, all with human flaws and shortcomings and other interests and prejudices which will stop them from being logical. so i agree, relying on grades or 'merit' is a short-sighted losing game and a fools errand. but social skills and strategies can be taught, practiced and implemented through experience (ie if youre shy, target the blabbermouth professor who just talks on and on to be your adviser, etc). all you have to do is learn how to cooperate with others. you don't have to be the life of the party to be successful in life, so don't deny yourself that chance before it even comes to pass


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## Lorenientha (Jul 22, 2013)

s12345 said:


> It is not easy to explain the role of the schooling system in politics (you would need to read up on metaphysics for that, but basically politics means: how do we run our nation? A nation is formed by what is known as discursive space. Each nation has their set of laws and moral justice. Laws are set up, rules are set up so that the people within that territory (nation) can be identified and can identify with their territory and the local culture. A place and a local culture binds a feeling of togetherness to a group of people known as a nation. A couple of institutions make sure these are created in place - a school being one of them, a court of justice, fire department, police station, etc.
> 
> Basically, the school system makes sure the people within the nation adhere to the laws of the discursive space. The school is the injector of culture. You need this culture so that you can be part of the system (like Morpheus says in 'The Matrix'). A system, so ingenuous, so well put together that the very people within it do not realize they are part of that very system and that they are dependent on it. Morpheus could not be more right - that is why that movie was a cornerstone of movies of critical and advanced thought and philosophy. So, you put a person in the school, out comes a citizen, i.e. a person that is now part of that nation because he or she know carries with him or her the culture that is local to the territory/discursive space. This is also important, because when it is war, people are called out and they need to identify with their nation. If they do not have a cultural identity then they are known as 'stateless', a state of identity which is best avoided.
> 
> ...


Citizens coming out of greek schools is definitely what I don't see happening, not with the way people are educated nowadays. Also, religion is a part of culture, but in my opinion it's individual culture.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Lorenientha said:


> Citizens coming out of greek schools is definitely what I don't see happening, not with the way people are educated nowadays. Also, religion is a part of culture, but in my opinion it's individual culture.


Ouch, that is a very wrong statement there.. my philosophy professor warned of this in his book. Culture is never individual, it is always a group-based concept.
The argument here is for example language (part of culture). Language is a group concept. If someone were to invent his own language, no one else would understand it.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'individual'.


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## ShatteredGlass (Oct 12, 2012)

How can anybody like school?!

I ****ING hate it!


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## Lorenientha (Jul 22, 2013)

s12345 said:


> Ouch, that is a very wrong statement there.. my philosophy professor warned of this in his book. Culture is never individual, it is always a group-based concept.
> The argument here is for example language (part of culture). Language is a group concept. If someone were to invent his own language, no one else would understand it.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by 'individual'.


I mean that each person has got their own religious preference. You can't just force everyone into the same religion, and drag them to the same church, especially since there is freedom of religion in the law.

I didn't say that culture isn't a group-based concept, but not to the point that everyone is exactly the same. I believe that there should be a core of basic rules and ethics that everyone should follow until these principles change, so that we can coexist and be a part of the nation, but outside that core people should have the chance to develop in their own unique way, and join smaller cultural groups that apply to them. Besides, different religions, traditions and other parts of culture have been proven to be able to coexist, as long as that core of principles is mutual to everyone.

Oh and by the way, my apologies for any language mistakes, english is obviously not my mother tongue.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Lorenientha said:


> I mean that each person has got their own religious preference. You can't just force everyone into the same religion, and drag them to the same church, especially since there is freedom of religion in the law.
> 
> I didn't say that culture isn't a group-based concept, but not to the point that everyone is exactly the same. I believe that there should be a core of basic rules and ethics that everyone should follow until these principles change, so that we can coexist and be a part of the nation, but outside that core people should have the chance to develop in their own unique way, and join smaller cultural groups that apply to them. Besides, different religions, traditions and other parts of culture have been proven to be able to coexist, as long as that core of principles is mutual to everyone.
> 
> Oh and by the way, my apologies for any language mistakes, english is obviously not my mother tongue.


You also can't state 'the law'. There is no one law and laws vary by country, especially in the extremely religious countries where everyone is forced to one religion. From my philosophy course, there are nine properties of a religion, one of the being this one:

9. community
There is a community.
Types of communities:
- cosmopolitic (Catholic church)
- social relativity (common mental ground)

It is incorrect to think of religion as something by an individual. Community is one of its defining characteristics. There is not one person with a certain religion. Everyone together forms a religion, a common mental pattern, their own world, their own symbols, together in harmony. You don't seem to have a current understanding of legislature, law and order and religion. I studied law as well, so I know. You should study more on those topics.

I didn't say that culture isn't a group-based concept, but not to the point that everyone is exactly the same.
-> Wrong. Everyone being exactly the same is the very premise of it.

Besides, different religions, traditions and other parts of culture have been proven to be able to coexist, as long as that core of principles is mutual to everyone.
-> Wrong again. That is only possible with certain cultures under certain conditions, i.e. you can never, ever have mundial dialogue between an open culture (a tolerant one as it is called nowadays) and a closed (mythical) culture. Why don't you try and tell for example a Jewish community to be open minded. I bet they would throw you out first hand. A friend of mine tried this before and he got shocked by how that community responded to his ideas. In closed, mythical religions there is no 'other right' or 'people have rights to think what they want'. No, there is only 'the group is right, there is only one God and no one is allowed to think differently than that framework. If the individual does, then the individual is kicked from the nation/country'.

Do you even realize that certain religion groups will kill you on the spot if you even dare to act differently?! Really, read up on religion and culture.
You should read up on mythical cultures and the severe mundial problems there are nowadays.
'Global dialogue' (harmony between all cultures) as philosophy calls it, is impossible. It's a fictitious idea. Why? Because there are cultures that are closed and refuse any ideas from their own.


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## apx24 (Jan 31, 2012)

Because I had to deal with ****ing bullies almost every day.


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## daffron (Oct 9, 2014)

Most kids in developed countries take advantage of schooling
Some kids might not like school because it's too hard or too easy. For a too easy, children can be severly bored and underachieving due to this and dread every time they have to go and suffer through school.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

Most of the time you don't learn anything so its just a waste of time.


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## thedead (Oct 6, 2014)

Well,''School is like forced prison'', this is completely true for me atleast, at school, I face many teachers who crack idiotic jokes and beat up the students and students who bully, im in 10th grade and skipped a grade, ever since then people have been teasing me about my age.Also,it's not like I want go to school,I go to school for my parents,who have high expectations from me, and tell me to call when needed,and in school,if you ask for the phone to call,they deny you the permission,thus making it like a forced jail of sorts


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