# Acetylcholine seems to be working for me



## Beastofburden (Jul 15, 2008)

When I was 22 my nervous system suddenly kind of broke down for no apparent reason. I couldn't hold a cup because of tremor. If I laughed my facial muscles would go into overdrive and I couldn't stop them from trembling. The slightest sound, comment etc would make my muscles freeze, twitch, tremble and I would completely lose control over my motor skills. I felt my problem was very "physical" - connected with the tremor, lack of motor skills and hyperexcitability. Over time i developed social anxiety because of these problems. I then developed depression. 

The first few years I tried different non-medical therapies - to almost no benefit at all. I then spent about ten years trying every medication I could lay my hands on. Many times the side effects were horrible. Eventually I settled for Klonopin, the benzo. My problematic symptoms were reasonably alleviated...but I was "anesthethized" by the Klonopin...I guess most of you out there know what I'm talking about...less emotion, less pain, less joy, less conscioussness, less everything. A lesser man. An imprisoned spirit. But without Klonopin I had no life at all, so what do you do...

Then, after years of reading, i stumbled upon a small British study from the 1930s, in which patients complaining about physical symptoms of anxiety had their acetylcholine levels boosted. All of them felt much better after the treatment. I purchased something called phosphatidylcholine (derived from soy lecithin). It is a precursor of acetylcholine.

The good news: It works. After a few days i felt much better. I've been off klonopin and on phosphatidylcholine for three months now, and my old problems are almost completely gone. If I don't take phosphatidylcholine for a few days my anxiety and loss of motor skills return. When on the phosphatidylcholine I feel calm, content and keen on social interaction.

The drawbacks: If I take too little, it doesn't do much for me. If I take too much I get nausious, dizzy and brainfoggy. It is sometimes difficult to hit the sweet spot (full benefit and no side effects), but the sweet spot is there. I dilute the phosphatidylcholine in a few drops of alcohol and ingest it with food to avoid gastrointestinal side effects. I use medicinal carbon tablets in case I get nausious.

What is now interesting to me is a class of drugs called cholinesterase inhibitors. They are normally used for Alzheimer's disease. They do boost acetylcholine, but through inhibiting the breakdown of acetylcholine, as opposed to adding more of it. Perhaps it works as well, and perhaps it is easier to hit the sweet spot with a pharmaceutical that can be more accurately administered as far as dosage and frequency are concerned. 

Any comments are greatly appreciated.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I had similar results taking lecithin. Any anxiety I had went away. However, I became very depressed after long term use. There body maintains, under normal conditions, a balance between ACh and dopamine. Too much ACH lowers dopamine and depression sets in.


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## Beastofburden (Jul 15, 2008)

Interesting. For how long were you taking lecithin? I've been taking phosphatidylcholine for just three months, but I do feel better than ever. I am trying my best to avoid raising my ACh levels too much - so far so good. One important thing; for some reason alcohol (I'm a beer & wine lover) seems to push up ACh the day after consumption - that's how I experience it anyway. I think alcohol may be a cholinesterase inhibitor, which would push up the ACh. If I take phosphatidylcholine the day after I've been drinking alcohol, I get all the cholinergic overstimulation symptoms. If I skip the phosphatidylcholine that day, it works out fine. Also, when I do get adverse effects I take medicinal carbon tablets to clean up the phosphatidylcholine still in my gut, and skip phosphatidylcholine for a while. It works. Again - so far so good. How do you cope without the lecithin by the way?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Honestly, I think about taking it again. It just made me feel more active in every way. I was less anxious and I had less inhibitions and negative thoughts before acting out. Something common in us Saers...we'll think an action to death before we do it...

However, there was also the depression it gave me, so I don't know. Maybe I'll use it sparingly, while also keeping dopamine up at the same time.


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## Beastofburden (Jul 15, 2008)

Would be interesting to learn about your progress if you do try lecithin again. I have tried lecithin as well. It does seem to work in a similar way, but I find that phosphatidylcholine (extracted from soy/soy lecithin) produces a more consistent and predictable result, so I feel I can control the "too little/too much" aspect better. Just my humble observation.

Good luck!


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

Hello, I'm new to the board and have what's probably a stupid question ops 

You say that you dissolve it in a small amount of alcohol. Are you referring to alcohol as in vodka or gin? Also, what form is it in when you dissolve it? Pill? Granule? 

Thank you!


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## Beastofburden (Jul 15, 2008)

I have gelatin capsules that each contains 420 mg phosphatidylcholine. I only need about 100 mg a day - sometimes less, sometimes more. To be able to control how much I am having I first cut open the capsule and put the contents in a small glass of vodka. I stir the "drink", and then put it in a dropper bottle. Then I know that e.g. five drops contain almost exactly 50 mg phosphatidylcholine (or whatever concentration I've decided upon). Takes a bit of "laboratory work", but you can prepare a dropper bottle once a week, and carry it with you.

Since accurate dosage seems to be so important, this method gives me great control over the amounts I am ingestingage, and thus maximum benefit with a minimum of adverse effects. Also, I find that mixing phosphatidylcholine with alcohol prevents gastrointestinal discomfort.


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks for the info! I may have to give this a try. The only part that may be a problem for me is mixing it with alcohol. 

Thing is, I need most of my help while I'm at work (I have a VERY public contact job). AND I'm subject to random alcohol testing. I wonder how it would work if I just mixed it with water or a type of juice, such as apple or cranberry. You mentioned it can cause stomach problems so I could carry some tums I suppose if that were to become a problem.

How much liquid does the dropper you're using hold? I wasn't good at chemistry so I don't want to give myself some super high dose!! :afr


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## Beastofburden (Jul 15, 2008)

I don't think you should get to worried about the mixing with alcohol bit. If you have a capsule containing 400 mg phosphatidylcholine, you just empty its contents in a glass with a minimum amount of alcohol required to nicely dissolve the P.Choline. Use trial and error, and instead of vodka you can try drinks with less alcohol content. You will find the minimum amount of alcoholic beverage needed to completely dissolve the P.Choline will be very very low. Buy any dropper bottle size you like and do the math afterwards, so you know how many drops to take per day in order to get a certain amount of daily P.Choline.

If you don't want to use alcohol at all you may possibly be able to find capsules with low doses, like e.g. 100 mg P.Choline per unit. Then you may be able to control daily administration accurately and may not have to apply the dropper bottle approach. I've got a sensitive stomach, but you may not have those problems, even if you don't dissolve the P.Choline. Just remember to take it with food. 

ps. P.Choline is not water soluble as far as I know, so water or juice would probably not do the job (P.Choline not getting dissolved) as well as e.g. vodka does


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## Jeremy (Jun 19, 2008)

Beastofburden, why don't you try CDP-Choline instead? I read that it's a unique form of choline that readily passes through the blood-brain barrier directly into the central nervous system.


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## Beastofburden (Jul 15, 2008)

The P.Choline I take does seem to readily cross the blood-brain barrier both with and without alcohol. The main reason why I mix it with tiny amounts of vodka is because every capsule contains way too much P.Choline (much more than I need anyway), and it is in my experience very important to get the dosage exactly right. The dropper bottle approach I've described above is a good option to ensure correct dosage every day. 

This approach works very well for me. I only have to do the "laboratory work" once a month - and it just takes a few minutes.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway - I will have a look at CDP-Choline out of general interest.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beastofburden are you russian?  I noticed when i was in russia that russians use vodka in every folk medicine they have. 

I never thought using choline with vodka but I will try that.


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## Jonica33 (Dec 30, 2013)

*Huperzine A*

I use Huperzine A to increase acetylcholine, which work great for my brain fog and energy levels.


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