# I don't want to hear it ladies- VENT/RANT



## hmnut (Aug 8, 2011)

There is a rather taboo topic that can never be spoken of on the SAS boards. That of "Women suffer less than men with SA" -- watch out, I mentioned it, the sky will soon fall.

Many men (myself included formerly) feel this way because in traditional society it is the role of the man to approach the women if he would like a relationship. While women can just sit there and the options come to them. This leads to many more women with SA in relationships than men with SA. 

This isn't to say they suffer less but to say they suffer different. 

And I don't mind the topic being taboo, as it is my belief that none of us sought out this board based on our gender roles. I am not here because "men have it harder." I am here because "I am having a hard time." So I don't really need to rant and rave about the roles of men and women being unfair... that's not going to help me, I need help on improving MY LIFE as an individual. (Maybe when my life is perfect I can fix all of societies other problems).

BUT... and this is a big BUT.

If I am barred from talking about how gender roles are unfair for SA men. SA women should be barred from using gender roles as an excuse for not taking more action in their lives.

Not too long ago I gave advice to a SA female who was not being approached by guys she liked, and I said she should do more to get their attention and she responded with words to the effect "It's the man's job to approach the women." 

And I got really really upset with this response, and at the time I wasn't sure why. But it's because with that one response she was saying "She shouldn't as an SA woman I am entitled to perks that SA men do not get."

I find it upsetting, and actually insulting that women on this board can use gender as an excuse for life being unfair for men it is taboo.



So new RULE, if MEN can't use gender roles as an excuse, neither can women. 

Anyone here who is unhappy with an aspect of their love life, or life in general, the question is what are YOU doing to fix it, it has nothing to do with what men are suppose to do or that women have it easy. It is about YOU!!!!


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## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

opcorn


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

opcorn


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## TrcyMcgrdy1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MYyyyyaaaaaaaaarrrrrgghhhhhhhhhh. Sorry, still drunk/hanging from last night. Anyway, I understand your point, and this girl seemed a little out of touch with reality, but in a way, she is correct. Taking SA out of the equation that is. Men should be the ones persuing and wooing, it has been and always will be. Think fo it this way, we might have to do the approaching, but think about being an SA woman. She never speaks, shakes, is super awkward. Are guy going to be clamoring to go out with her or thinks he is a weirdo. Once Sa enters the equation, **** gets tricky. For both genders. Once SA gets in the picture, BOTH genders got it tough.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Although I agree more or less in principle - it's always going to be like that to a certain extent because men naturally seek out women. I would say however that if a woman doesn't like the men who approach her, then it's up to her to take the initiative and do some approaching herself.

This is why perfect gender equality is probably impossible, there's always going to be intrinsic differences between the genders that gives advantages/disadvantages in some situations.

I do feel your pain though, as introverted/shy men we are pretty damn low on society's acceptance scale. :b But that's what kinda in a way was intended - we're suppose to feel like crap so we try and further ourselves and eventually improve to the point that we are productive in society. It may seem to the outside observer that women have an easier ride (because the same pitfalls don't hinder them nearly as much) but it could also be viewed as them being able to coast for longer and not realise that something's wrong - and at some stage they will realise and it might be to late for them to do anything about it. So yeah, it could be all swings and roundabouts when you think about it like that.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

hmnut said:


> It is about YOU!!!!


I agree. We can't change the past, but can affect the present and future. It's up to us to conquer our anxiety going forward.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Everything has pros or cons. Women suffer a lot in relationships, if it isn't choice of sex then it's choice of finding a decent partner. Also, imagine being pregnant for 9 months? I can't. It has got to suck in a world where men seem so superficial. It also has to suck to compete on a passive-aggressive level. The list goes on...

Women have it harder in some ways and so do men. Pros and cons.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

This has been debated over and over again. I imagine it will end in blood, sweat, and tears like every other time.


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## northstar1991 (Oct 4, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> This has been debated over and over again. I imagine it will end in blood, sweat, and tears like every other time.


and no one ever winning


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## lyric (Aug 21, 2011)

THREAD LOCK!! opcorn


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

The only one who wins is the one who gets the thread closed down.


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

I find this thread quite hilarious since a couple of weeks ago I made a thread about possibly approaching a guy and got about three responses, all from different male users, saying that being that I'm a woman, I should avoid the anxiety-provoking situation and let the guy do the asking.

Before you start throwing the blame on women, talk to your "own team" about it.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

AllToAll said:


> I find this thread quite hilarious since a couple of weeks ago I made a thread about possibly approaching a guy and got about three responses, all from different users, saying that being that I'm a woman, I should avoid the anxiety-provoking situation and let the guy do the asking.
> 
> Before you start throwing the blame on women, talk to your "own team" about it.


I would love to have a woman approach me, which has happened twice in my life. When I was 10 a girl told me I was cute and she liked me. When I was 14 a girl told me I was cute. There was a another time but I don't know if it was me that she was talking about. My brother was living with my family at the time and we found a letter in the mailbox that was sexually detailed. We moved away that same month so we never found out who she was talking about.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Do women really get approached that much? I only get approached or asked out maybe once every two years or so.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

komorikun said:


> Do women really get approached that much? I only get approached or asked out maybe once every two years or so.


Didn't you get approached a lot in your 20s at bars?


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

komorikun said:


> Do women really get approached that much? I only get approached or asked out maybe once every two years or so.


Well, it's probably reasonable to conclude that they get approached/asked out more than your typical guy. I can't even think of a time when I was asked out or approached without first taking the initiative. Not to say it doesn't happen to other guys, but it's less typical. It's just human nature and there's really nothing we can do about it. It sucks, but I've accepted it :stu


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## meeps (Dec 5, 2011)

It really doesn't happen as often as guys here seem to think, especially if you're really quiet and don't connect with people easily and aren't super gorgeous.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

bwidger85 said:


> Didn't you get approached a lot in your 20s at bars?


In my 30s too. But I was actively looking for it. The OP is saying that if you just go about your normal life (school, work, shopping, etc.) tons of guys will ask you out. This is not true in my case at all. I have to go to bars or join dating sites to get any sort of attention from the opposite sex.


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

komorikun said:


> Do women really get approached that much?


No.

Some men have this misguided notion that women are constantly bombarded by men for dates.


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## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

I ain't touching this with a ten-foot pole. I'll keep my opinions to myself.

Off-topic:

Is it just me or do I see jumbles of HTML code half the time I'm refreshing this topic?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

komorikun said:


> In my 30s too. But I was actively looking for it. The OP is saying that if you just go about your normal life (school, work, shopping, etc.) tons of guys will ask you out. This is not true in my case at all. I have to go to bars or join dating sites to get any sort of attention from the opposite sex.


This is my notion of where most women are approached the most. I know women aren't approached much in public arenas because they say it to me and also because most guys are scared to do this.

I'm not picking sides, I would just like to clarify that I understand women do not get approached much outside of social arenas that are thought of "normal" by society. However, there is a clear distinction of the approaches in certain arena, which is fine in my opinion. I don't battle that.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

edit*_....quoted the wrong person_

In response to the women here who have spoken up, I wish women would be more vocal about this when men speak up


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

meeps said:


> It really doesn't happen as often as guys here seem to think, especially if you're really quiet and don't connect with people easily and aren't super gorgeous.


Yes to all of this.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Let me ask this:

_How can a man who is typically shy, yet a good person, find a girlfriend if he doesn't approach and she doesn't approach? _


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

WintersTale said:


> Let me ask this:
> 
> _How can a man who is typically shy, yet a good person, find a girlfriend if he doesn't approach and she doesn't approach? _


Women do approach, but not near as much. This is obvious. But does it really matter? Take matters into your own hands and go after what you want (not speaking specifically about you).


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> Let me ask this:
> 
> _How can a man who is typically shy, yet a good person, find a girlfriend if he doesn't approach and she doesn't approach? _


I've often wondered about that myself. I was on a website a couple of weeks where a guy was asking if any guy had ever been laughed at by a girl when he asked her out. There were quite of few that had and then there was a guy that said that had never happened to him. He said that he almost never asks a girl out. He said that they always ask him out. I was thinking what the hell is wrong with me then. The only time that girls had ever told me that I was cute was when I was 10 and 14 years old.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I've been asked out before, but not by girls that I want to be with. 

It's always been, the ones I want don't want me, and the ones that want me, I don't want.


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

WintersTale said:


> _How can a man who is typically shy, yet a good person, find a girlfriend if he doesn't approach and she doesn't approach?_


By using nonverbal gestures of course:


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## CommanderShepard (May 25, 2012)

I have thanked God several times that I was born a woman. A lot of stuff really is easier for women if you're socially akward/nerdy. I can be shy and people don't label me a creeper or a rapist, I can collect dolls and people don't think I'm a pedophile nutcase, I can dress up in Star Wars costumes and go to conventions and never get made fun of for it. However when it comes to romance I have just as much trouble as the guys, just different trouble. I have never dated and I am still a virgin at my age, and that's all due to crippling fear and trust issues brough on by SA. Men have hit on me before yes, but I always feel almost afraid of them, they are being so pushy and sexual. I have never been asked out by a gentleman or had someone respectful want to date me.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I'm really glad that you admitted that, Commander.

And that's what's troubling about threads like this. Both men and women struggle in different aspects of their life. I get called a pedophile because I never have had a girlfriend, so they assume I am attracted to kids (as someone who is a doting uncle, this is offensive.)

I would love to have a girlfriend my own age, or slightly younger. I would love to be married, to tow the line, to be the father. However, that is for other men. All I can do is stare at other people, and wonder how they got so lucky.


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## cherryboom (Jun 14, 2012)

Don't see why we have to start a gender war. Why can't we all just help and support each other. Last time I checked I was on socialanxiety*support*.com.

Sorry. Just tiring of constant slamming of folks on these boards.

I can't even look guys in the eye it doesn't matter whether it's their job to approach or not because I clam up regardless. Can't say I'm better or worse off than anyone else.


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## hmnut (Aug 8, 2011)

cherryboom said:


> Don't see why we have to start a gender war. Why can't we all just help and support each other. Last time I checked I was on socialanxiety*support*.com.
> 
> Sorry. Just tiring of constant slamming of folks on these boards.
> 
> I can't even look guys in the eye it doesn't matter whether it's their job to approach or not because I clam up regardless. Can't say I'm better or worse off than anyone else.


I agree.

And sadly this topic has gone in the exact opposite direction that I intended.

This was not suppose to be a gender war, but rather and END to gender as an excuse. But there is an actual moddable rule saying men can not use gender as an excuse but their is no equal rule that says women can't. Men CAN NOT say women have it easier but women CAN say they should have it easier.

*Let me say it again... neither gender should use gender as an excuse.*

None of use is her because of what society is suppose to be. None of us is here because of social norms, we are here because we have SA and effects our lives.

And we all have to stop saying how life SHOULD be and accept life for how it is, regardless of our gender. The point of my topic is there is should be an equal taboo rule saying ladies can't hide behind their gender as to why life should be easier for them. They like men should be forced to accept that SA is hard on all of us.

If this topic gets closed, then the mods missed the point.


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## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> Let me ask this:
> 
> _How can a man who is typically shy, yet a good person, find a girlfriend if he doesn't approach and she doesn't approach? _


Ok, might as well ask.

What if you approach her (message her in my case), say hi, and her response is that if you talk to her again she will call the cops on you?


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## James_Russell (Aug 26, 2011)

hmm interesting thread


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## asw12345 (Aug 8, 2012)

WintersTale said:


> I'm really glad that you admitted that, Commander.
> 
> And that's what's troubling about threads like this. Both men and women struggle in different aspects of their life. I get called a pedophile because I never have had a girlfriend, so they assume I am attracted to kids (as someone who is a doting uncle, this is offensive.)
> 
> I would love to have a girlfriend my own age, or slightly younger. I would love to be married, to tow the line, to be the father. However, that is for other men. All I can do is stare at other people, and wonder how they got so lucky.


why would someone call you a pedophile for never having a girlfriend? that doesn't seem right and it don't make sense.


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## Frunktubulus (Jan 8, 2012)

What is to be gained by suggesting women suffer less from social anxiety? Perhaps shy women are more likely to be in a relationship than shy men. So what? Does this hurt shy men in some way? Does this mean shy women have a wealth of blissful relationships at their fingertips?

If anything the social expectation that a man approaches a woman means women are _less_ likely to be in the relationship they like, for the additional social fear of asking a guy out.

I just don't get what is to be gained by angrily insisting to women they should 'count their darned blessings'.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

opcorn


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

AllToAll said:


> No.
> 
> Some men have this misguided notion that women are constantly bombarded by men for dates.


Any women who is above average looking and puts herself out there will get plenty of offers, especially on dating sites.



WintersTale said:


> I've been asked out before, but not by girls that I want to be with.
> 
> It's always been, the ones I want don't want me, and the ones that want me, I don't want.


I have the same problem.


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## General Specific (Mar 4, 2008)

WintersTale said:


> I've been asked out before, but not by girls that I want to be with.
> 
> It's always been, the ones I want don't want me, and the ones that want me, I don't want.


Welcome to my world. I'm sure this is the way it happens for a lot of guys unfortunately.



a pers0n said:


> hmm interesting thread


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

AllToAll said:


> I find this thread quite hilarious since a couple of weeks ago I made a thread about possibly approaching a guy and got about three responses, all from different male users, saying that being that I'm a woman, I should avoid the anxiety-provoking situation and let the guy do the asking.
> 
> Before you start throwing the blame on women, talk to your "own team" about it.


And those were the only three responses you received? I have a hard time believing this. Most of us would love to be approached.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

WintersTale said:


> Let me ask this:
> 
> _How can a man who is typically shy, yet a good person, find a girlfriend if he doesn't approach and she doesn't approach? _


LOL that's fundamentally impossible.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

bwidger85 said:


> Women do approach, but not near as much. This is obvious. But does it really matter? Take matters into your own hands and go after what you want (not speaking specifically about you).


I've never been approached (in person) in my life. And rarely online.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

You know I don't think I have ever been approached. Probably because for now I don't go out that much and I look young so guys can be wary. And it is usually always the yougins...I'm not gonna go after 18 year olds heh. Yeah if you are extremely hot you might get approached more but not the case for me so really I do like having people leaving me alone when it's too places where I want to enjoy the place not worry about someone else. Now if I actually go to places looking for someone I would be really nervous anyways and won't do anything so yeah whats the point lol.


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

nemesis1 said:


> Any women who is above average looking and puts herself out there will get plenty of offers, especially on dating sites.


No ****. :roll



srschirm said:


> And those were the only three responses you received? I have a hard time believing this. Most of us would love to be approached.


The thread wasn't very popular. I got about 21 responses total, and most of it was a back and forth between me and a user who kept insisting I should just act coy and let him make the move.

I think it's funny, though, that you guys don't realize that women are making moves so that these men will approach them at bars. The whole hair flipping, looking over your shoulders, smiling, etc., those are moves that these women are making so that guys will approach them. You donn't sit at a bar looking at the TV in your PJs and have ten guys approach you. That's only true in movies.


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## 50piecesteve (Feb 28, 2012)

haha i love these threads XD


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

hmnut said:


> Many men (myself included formerly) feel this way because in traditional society it is the role of the man to approach the women if he would like a relationship. While women can just sit there and the options come to them. This leads to many more women with SA in relationships than men with SA.


Indeed good sir, and dating studies confirm this is the norm. I always inform people to go to the sources and look at the straight forward, hard to misinterpret dating studies. I.e. no of messages sent by men/women, read mails, answered mails, no of attempts before recieving a reply, number of the opposite sex contacted before meeting.

Oversimplified and perhaps insulting to the small number of genuine women not recieving emails or being replied to. Still the common conception does seem to be true and I commend you for speaking up on this issue.



hmnut said:


> *This isn't to say they suffer less but to say they suffer different.*


Just a friendly heads up to warn you that most femmies will not see the difference despite you specifically stated it there. I just fealt like emboldening it for you.



hmnut said:


> If I am barred from talking about how gender roles are unfair for SA men. SA women should be barred from using gender roles as an excuse for not taking more action in their lives.
> 
> Not too long ago I gave advice to a SA female who was not being approached by guys she liked, and I said she should do more to get their attention and she responded with words to the effect "It's the man's job to approach the women."


I think you meant shouldn't be? I believe I get your point anyway. Sadly, the hypocritical matriarchy and misandry of feminism has failed to truely liberate women in the dating game, under their own spiel of 'equal rites' and 'sexual liberation'. If it had, more women would be approaching men.



hmnut said:


> I find it upsetting, and actually insulting that women on this board can use gender as an excuse for life being unfair for men it is taboo.


You aren't alone, more men are waking up to the double standards, albeit slowly, but it is gaining momentum.



hmnut said:


> So new RULE, if MEN can't use gender roles as an excuse, neither can women.


Again, back to (multiple) dating studies based on the established scientific theory of sexual selection (scientific journals I've previously linked, Quite happy to link again to anyone who doubts me). It's apparent that many of the gender based grievances are in most part solidly grounded.

Therefore rationally I can't really see much wrong (in itself) if a female member of SAS wants to write a thread about some men being superficial about looks or being motivated by sex. Although I would add 'all men' is bad taste and probably preaching to the wrong choir (1.extraverts being more likely to engage in promiscuity 2. Such statements acting as a metaphorical kick in the teeth on a board composed largely of single disposed of/unnoticed males and virgins desperate for human contact).

On point, so long as those threads do not discriminate against all members of either sex I don't see a problem in talking about the issues. The hypocrisy, the double standard comes when it's fine to talk about 'most men only being interested in looks' or 'men cheat more often'. However I think it's criminally unfair (mods) that the threads on 'women on dating sites' or 'How come women hardly ever approach guys?' written by male authors tend to always head towards being locked.

Because the basis is, when broken down, and this is what the studies and statistics on dating sites show:

- women do indeed - if we can't say 'judge' then... Dating site statistics show that women are more likely contact/reply to/form relationships/be intimate with men based on higher 1. extraversion. 2. wage. 3. employment status. 4. social standing/friends. 5. Height

- 1. Attractive females recieve more mail i.e. attention.
- 2. Men (more so extravert types) are more promiscuous/adultrous.

The numbered points are all traits. This is sexual selection. Sexual selection is one sex of a species (normally the female) selecting in the opposite sex, particular traits.

At the fundamental level all of these types of threads are talking about these traits and theres a reasonable degree of truth in their basis (so long as they aren't applied to everyone of that sex).

TL;DR: Allow all of these thread types because there is a rational basis for these grievances. Or don't allow any because there's sometimes a double standard applied at present, which is sexist towards men.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

The only two times that I've been approached was when I was 10 and 14 years old. After I graduated from high school I've never been approached. I've been too nervous to approach women and the only places that I go out to are stores. I've never been out drinking in my life because I never cared to do that.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I've been approached several times in my early 20's, but managed to screw it up every time.

That is why I consider myself love shy. I am unable to return interest, even when I'm interested, and unable to act interested, even though I am.


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