# Sick of Mirtazapine.



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Well I've been taking mirtazapine for chronic insomnia for awhile now, mostly because I can't get anything else prescribed. I don't use it for depression, since I'm also on Effexor XR which does a hell of a better job in that regard.

So I've only been taking about 7.5 mg per night (I used to be on a higher dose back when I used it as an antidepressant). And despite the low dose it has still seemed to give me every adverse affect in the book, namely; 
*persistant excessive daytime grogginess
*increased appetite & weight gain 
*bloating
*slowed thinking and reaction time
*headaches

So I'm pretty much done with it. I went the the pharmacist today and asked what was commonly used for chronic insomnia and she said that ambien when used properly seems to work well for a long period of time at a set dose without any need for dosage increase, and doesn't cause as much next day grogginess or tolerance as the more common antihistamine sleep aids such as Diphenhydramine or Doxylamine (Unisom, etc). This puzzles me since my pdoc won't give me Z-drugs on the premise that he says that tolerance builds to them rapidly and users often have to take more and more. 

I'm pretty much confused and somewhat frustrated at this point. Any advice/input is welcomed.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Cant you go to a random normal housedoc? Just ask for the stuff if they refuse go to the next one... lol, allways works for me, i even managed to get oxycodone for OCD lol, so ambien for sleep shouldnt be too hard.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

My general doc says he doesn't want to interfere with my Pdoc, so he doesn't prescribe me any psychotropic medication, I assume others would say the same. And I don't really want to deceive anyone anyway. It's just disappointing because I have no intention of ever abusing any med, I only take things for a legimitamite purpose, and even when I do find myself building tolerance to something I usually just start to taper down at that point and get off of it.

@ oxycodone for OCD, lmao!


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Also, I think it's pretty disturbing that people with insomnia have to endure off label meds such as antipsychotics like seroquel, just because doc's are benzo or z-drug phobic. Whats wrong with the world these days. :no


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jim_morrison said:


> Also, I think it's pretty disturbing that people with insomnia have to endure off label meds such as antipsychotics like seroquel, just because doc's are benzo or z-drug phobic. Whats wrong with the world these days. :no


Yeah i cant stand that either:mum


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Yeah, I mean chronic insomnia has taken a big toll on my quality of life over the past few years, so I hardly find the idea that ambien may possibly be "addictive" to be off putting lol. That's the least of my problems so long as it works.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

I don't take anything for sleep, but if I did my main concern would be tolerance. I would use ambien a couple times a week and substitute it with diphenhydramine and other antihistamines (non anti-psychotic lol). Perhaps you could also put up with mirtazapine just once a week? Well, that's what I would try anyways. I don't research this stuff much so I don't know about antihistamine tolerance / cross-tolerance per se, but I'd assume it takes a couple weeks to build up a tolerance to antihistamine because eventually mirtazapine stopped making me sleepy, though I've heard mirtazapine has one of the most powerful antihistamines. I also don't know if a benzo would even be helpful along with ambien since ambien's benzodiazapene related. Wouldn't rely only on otc stuff like diphenhydramine every single day since I'd assume it's harder for that stuff to knock you out than ambien but I'm sure you've arrived at that same conclusion already. Oh well, hopefully you can sort through my misinformation.

I also remember vicodin knocking me the **** out but I'm not so sure that's a good idea if there's other means available.

I had a psychology teacher once who didn't believe insomnia even existed, lol.


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## Sadaiyappan (Jun 20, 2009)

Trazadome will get you to sleep too. Try that.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Trazodones not available in my country unfortunately. Though I do agree that it would be a good one to try.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Under17 said:


> I don't take anything for sleep, but if I did my main concern would be tolerance. I would use ambien a couple times a week and substitute it with diphenhydramine and other antihistamines (non anti-psychotic lol). Perhaps you could also put up with mirtazapine just once a week? Well, that's what I would try anyways. I don't research this stuff much so I don't know about antihistamine tolerance / cross-tolerance per se, but I'd assume it takes a couple weeks to build up a tolerance to antihistamine because eventually mirtazapine stopped making me sleepy, though I've heard mirtazapine has one of the most powerful antihistamines. I also don't know if a benzo would even be helpful along with ambien since ambien's benzodiazapene related. Wouldn't rely only on otc stuff like diphenhydramine every single day since I'd assume it's harder for that stuff to knock you out than ambien but I'm sure you've arrived at that same conclusion already. Oh well, hopefully you can sort through my misinformation.
> 
> I also remember vicodin knocking me the **** out but I'm not so sure that's a good idea if there's other means available.
> 
> I had a psychology teacher once who didn't believe insomnia even existed, lol.


Yeah I've still got a few other options tucked up my sleave to fall back on if necessary, such as prescription strength melatonin, and ultra-low dose doxepin (silenor); http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/41444.php.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

jim_morrison said:


> Yeah I've still got a few other options tucked up my sleave to fall back on if necessary, such as prescription strength melatonin, and ultra-low dose doxepin (silenor); http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/41444.php.


Doxepin looks interesting, off label treatment for chronic pain, depression, and anxiety but comes with usual side effects at higher doses. I'll have to remember that one when the chips are down. Do you think it'd be difficult to get prescribed? I've not tried asking doctors for medications and it seems they either give you opiates, benzos, or tell you to eat more fruits and exercise based on what people tell me, there is no in between lol.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Under17 said:


> Doxepin looks interesting, off label treatment for chronic pain, depression, and anxiety but comes with usual side effects at higher doses. I'll have to remember that one when the chips are down. Do you think it'd be difficult to get prescribed? I've not tried asking doctors for medications and it seems they either give you opiates, benzos, or tell you to eat more fruits and exercise based on what people tell me, there is no in between lol.


It should be really easy to get prescribed, but if you do get it for sleep, your better off buying the old generic doxepin 10 mg tablets and taking a half or full tablet per night, rather than this fancy new 'silenor' brand, much more cost effective that way. If you try it for depression/pain etc then again just get the old generic brand but in the 75 mg tablets.


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## lionheart (Jun 16, 2010)

hmm good that you have other options like strong melatonin,

one thing i think you should do is get off mirtazapine as soon as possible, i cant believe ive been 5 years on that drug, mirtazapine is nice for max year or two, after that you only keep the side-effects.

i hate how i look retarded on mirtazapine, eyes get black and droggy,must be the hipnotic ingedient, bad for sa too, the black eye colour. Its still very strong on side effects on 7.5 mg, when you get to 5 mg or less you will feel much fitter and not sleepy during the day, you re on effexor so you shouldnt get mood swings on 5mg or less.


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## rustybob (Nov 19, 2009)

Is your problem falling asleep? Or staying asleep?


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

1. Melatonin
2. Melatonin
3. Melatonin
4. Melatonin


AND

5. Melatonin

10 mg will KNOCK YOU OUT.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

rustybob said:


> Is your problem falling asleep? Or staying asleep?


Primarily falling asleep.



lionheart said:


> hmm good that you have other options like strong melatonin,
> 
> one thing i think you should do is get off mirtazapine as soon as possible, i cant believe ive been 5 years on that drug, mirtazapine is nice for max year or two, after that you only keep the side-effects.
> 
> i hate how i look retarded on mirtazapine, eyes get black and droggy,must be the hipnotic ingedient, bad for sa too, the black eye colour. Its still very strong on side effects on 7.5 mg, when you get to 5 mg or less you will feel much fitter and not sleepy during the day, you re on effexor so you shouldnt get mood swings on 5mg or less.


I've stopped mirtazapine as of yesterday. I hardly sleep last night, but I wasn't too bothered, was just glad to be off of it I think. It's strange, my mind already feels like it's starting to return to normal, my interests, and especially my appreciation of music has returned quite profoundly, it's like my souls starting to return from zombie-land, so to speak lol.


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

Sorry I think I forgot something on my original post.

MELATONIN.

That is all.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

db0255 said:


> Sorry I think I forgot something on my original post.
> 
> MELATONIN.
> 
> That is all.


Yup, that's on my list, you need a prescription to get it here, but it's not a controlled substance so it shouldn't be that hard to get :yes.


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

Works great doesn't it? I didn't know you needed a prescription in Australia though. I take 6 mg (just took some 30 minut....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

I havn't tried melatonin yet, but when I get a prescription for it next week I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Xanax is my favourite sleep aid and ive tried almost every sleep aid there is.


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## rustybob (Nov 19, 2009)

Melatonin should work well for you.

I dunno about anyone else but I find that melatonin tends to crap out on me after 6-8 weeks. Instead of putting me to sleep it wakes me up instead. Taking more made it worse. All I do then is stop taking it and I fall asleep fine for a couple months, then repeat the cycle.

I usually take 3mg/night when I take it. Taking more doesn't put me to sleep any faster so it's just a waste to take any more for me.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

db0255 said:


> Works great doesn't it? I didn't know you needed a prescription in Australia though. I take 6 mg (just took some 30 minut....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


This is not a normal dose. I take 0.1 - 0.2 mg with good effect.


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## lionheart (Jun 16, 2010)

i thaught you get tolorant for melatonin fast? can it go with lexapro?


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## Sadaiyappan (Jun 20, 2009)

How strong is melatonin? Is it as strong as Mirtazapine? I doubt it is.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Sadaiyappan said:


> How strong is melatonin? Is it as strong as Mirtazapine? I doubt it is.


Nah melatonin is weaker, it's one of the more mild sleep aids, while mirtazapine is a very strong one.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

Mirtazapine would give me restless leg syndrome for about 3-4 hours after taking it and also nightmares so it worked pretty poorly for me as a sleep aid lol.

I took a melatonin last night and it actually helped me sleep (3 mg) and gave me some pretty great dreams, though I don't know if the two are connected. It makes me wake up dreadfully early though so I usually have to take one again when I wake up and sleep in x2 5 hour shifts.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Melatonin is about as weak as they come for sleep aids in my experience. Only thing weaker was Zaleplon.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

Ambien works great for me at 10mg. some nights I don't even need it, and i think it reassures my doctor when it takes 2 months to go through a 30 day script. He's more willing to suggest other controlled drugs, which in my case would actually help.


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

Hey Jim. Sorry to hear you troubles. Keep fighting dude. Be persistent. Hopefully in the end your pdoc will have no choice but to consider taking you more seriously. 

I know it's frustrating being on something that barely works and adds a ton of additional problems you don't need in your life. 

Try the melatonin like some have suggested, see how that goes for a while then if it's not working out keep conveying your problems with insomnia to your pdoc. If that doesn't work try and get a another opinion if that's possible. 

Keep fighting dude!


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## Himi Jendrix (Mar 24, 2010)

Is it hard to get Ambien prescribed? And is ambien expensive? 

I would like to try a z-drug cause anti-histamines make me drowsy the next day. 

I have a similar problem, I dont take mirtazapine regularly but I do have some on hand from when I tryed it for anxiety. Melatonin works well for me but it gives me really weird dreams. 

I have tried ambien 2 times and it seems to work well for me. Makes me feel real good in the morning. Do docs consider it to be "dangerous" like benzos?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Himi Jendrix said:


> Is it hard to get Ambien prescribed? And is ambien expensive?
> 
> I would like to try a z-drug cause anti-histamines make me drowsy the next day.
> 
> ...


I think it may depend on what country your in, Z drugs are schedule 4 substances (the same category as benzodiazapines).

In my country they are hard to get prescribed, although from what I've heard it's not that hard to get them prescribed in america, so you may have better luck.

As for the expense, I guess you'd just have to check which z drugs are available in generic form in your country.

But yeah I agree, antihistamines just make me feel horrible the next day.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Under17 said:


> Perhaps you could also put up with mirtazapine just once a week? Well, that's what I would try anyways.


Thats a pretty good idea actually, I guess I could just put up with it just one night a week (most likely friday night since I have no commitments the next day) to reset my sleep schedule since it generally gets out of whack fairly easily.

I'm glad to be off of it though, mirtazapine just seems to really disagree with me, now that I've been off it for a few days I'm starting to realise just how bad it was making me feel (when taking it nightly).


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

LaRibbon said:


> I like mirtazapine...
> 
> Sorry to hear it's not working for you, I guess give the melatonin a shot. Good luck.


Thanks, sorry I don't mean to med-bash it or anything, as I'm sure it's a wonder drug for some people. And I wouldn't want to put people who it may potentially help off of the idea of it. Unfortunately my body just doesn't seem to handle it.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Thanks, sorry I don't mean to med-bash it or anything, as I'm sure it's a wonder drug for some people. And I wouldn't want to put people who it may potentially help off of the idea of it. Unfortunately my body just doesn't seem to handle it.


I'm with you, I was just sick of being tired all the time at 15mg and 30. Even though it worked great for sleep and racing thoughts, I didn't want to be sedated all the time like a zombie out of hell.

Doctor would keep telling me the higher the dose, the more uplifting it would actually be. 45mg would knock me out for 24 hours... Ridicules. Sounds like you're spot on, time for a change.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> I'm with you, I was just sick of being tired all the time at 15mg and 30. Even though it worked great for sleep and racing thoughts, I didn't want to be sedated all the time like a zombie out of hell.
> 
> Doctor would keep telling me the higher the dose, the more uplifting it would actually be. 45mg would knock me out for 24 hours... Ridicules. Sounds like you're spot on, time for a change.


Yeah, I found the exact same thing, everytime the doc would boost my mirtazapine dose up higher I'd just become more and more zombie like.

It's promising to hear that ambien has helped you so much, can I ask though, people seem to report sleep walking/ sleep eating/driving etc with ambien, have you found anything odd like that to happen on it, or is it just the usual overstatement by the media?


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Yeah, I found the exact same thing, everytime the doc would boost my mirtazapine dose up higher I'd just become more and more zombie like.
> 
> It's promising to hear that ambien has helped you so much, can I ask though, people seem to report sleep walking/ sleep eating/driving etc with ambien, have you found anything odd like that to happen on it, or is it just the usual overstatement by the media?


Pretty much no side effects. Sometimes if I try to stay up after its kicked in, I won't remember that brief period of time. Other than that, it works great! Also for me, there's very minimal grogginess in the morning when taken alone before bed.

The rumors used to concern me as well, so much so I turned off my phone and kept it in the bathroom when I first started the medication. It's good to be paranoid about medications IMO. I can basically sleep on command which is all I asked for.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> Pretty much no side effects. Sometimes if I try to stay up after its kicked in, I won't remember that brief period of time. Other than that, it works great! Also for me, there's very minimal grogginess in the morning when taken alone before bed.
> 
> The rumors used to concern me as well, so much so I turned off my phone and kept it in the bathroom when I first started the medication. It's good to be paranoid about medications IMO. I can basically sleep on command which is all I asked for.


That's good to hear, how long have you been on it for? Coz the doc claims tolerance builds rapidly so people need to keep upping the dose, but my pharmacist disagrees.


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

remeron was terrible terrible drug, did pretty much all the same things you described to me. I also had insane out of this world dreams, very disturbing.

Jim have you ever tried sublingual methylb-12? I've been taking it for a while now and sleep like a baby. The regular b12 didnt work for me but this one sure does.. Just something to look into if you cant find anything else.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> remeron was terrible terrible drug, did pretty much all the same things you described to me. I also had insane out of this world dreams, very disturbing.
> 
> Jim have you ever tried sublingual methylb-12? I've been taking it for a while now and sleep like a baby. The regular b12 didnt work for me but this one sure does.. Just something to look into if you cant find anything else.


I currently take the natures own regular B-12 tablets, but I wasn't aware that it was available in sublingual form here. Sounds interesting though, which brand makes this? I'll have to try it out.


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

I ordered mine online at iherb, Jarrow brand, meant to be one of the best brands for methyl b12 apparently. I read that other forms of b12 are bad for you, and can cause problems. Seems to work well.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Thanks, I'll have to look into it, btw is there any particular reason why you take B-12 supplements? I take them for thrombocytopenia, and it helps a bit, but if the sublingual form is meant to work better than that may help moreso.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> That's good to hear, how long have you been on it for? Coz the doc claims tolerance builds rapidly so people need to keep upping the dose, but my pharmacist disagrees.


About 5 months now. Started at 10mg and every night for about 3 months, and went on to using as needed. So it actually helped put my sleeping schedule on track, but that could also be related to feeling a bit better than I was 4-5 months ago.

I agree with your pharmacist. I only think tolerance builds for those who take more than they should. Being rather unaffected by narcotics, 5mg didn't work for me, but 10mg has consistently worked for months now... although now it's not taken every night.

I also take 300mg wellbutrin while slowly weening myself off effexor, which can be stimulating for some, yet for me, it still hasn't interfered with ambiens effectiveness.:clap


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

I take the b12 because I had a blood test done a while ago and said I was a bit low. I also get painful nerve problems in my feet and hands which is a sign of lack of b12. 

I've been reading up also on this b12 protocol, and apparently many people have recovered from wide range of disorders using it, both mental and physical.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> About 5 months now. Started at 10mg and every night for about 3 months, and went on to using as needed. So it actually helped put my sleeping schedule on track, but that could also be related to feeling a bit better than I was 4-5 months ago.
> 
> I agree with your pharmacist. I only think tolerance builds for those who take more than they should. Being rather unaffected by narcotics, 5mg didn't work for me, but 10mg has consistently worked for months now... although now it's not taken every night.
> 
> I also take 300mg wellbutrin while slowly weening myself off effexor, which can be stimulating for some, yet for me, it still hasn't interfered with ambiens effectiveness.:clap


That's good to hear.  I'm also on effexor, but it works well for me.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> I take the b12 because I had a blood test done a while ago and said I was a bit low. I also get painful nerve problems in my feet and hands which is a sign of lack of b12.
> 
> I've been reading up also on this b12 protocol, and apparently many people have recovered from wide range of disorders using it, both mental and physical.


Oh yeah I've heard that low B-12 can cause painful nerve problems/tingling in the extremeties. I think I also vaguely remember reading somewhere that if you suffer from that then you have to avoid nitrous oxide which they use at the dentist because it can exacerbate the problem, just something to be aware of.

*Update*
From wiki;


> Nitrous oxide inactivates the cobalamin form of vitamin B12 by oxidation. Symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency, including sensory neuropathy, myelopathy, and encephalopathy, can occur within days or weeks of exposure to nitrous oxide anesthesia in people with subclinical vitamin B12 deficiency. Symptoms are treated with high doses of vitamin B12, but recovery can be slow and incomplete. People with normal vitamin B12 levels have stores to make the effects of nitrous oxide insignificant, unless exposure is repeated and prolonged (nitrous oxide abuse). Vitamin B12 levels should be checked in people with risk factors for vitamin B12 deficiency prior to using nitrous oxide anesthesia.
> A study of workers and several experimental animal studies indicate that adverse reproductive effects for pregnant females may also result from chronic exposure to nitrous oxide.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

You've awakened the hypochondriac within me, now I've gotta try some B12 lol.


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## travyjeremus (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, this is disappointing....

11 months ago, this great forum led me to Nardil, which saved my job, if not my life. (Incidentally, if you can stomach the side effects, I've become convinced that Nardil is both the single best AD and the single best anxiolytic ever produced by man....) Unfortunately, the insomnia finally became too big of a problem -- I was literally skipping 2 or 3 nights of sleep a week -- so I came off of it. Remembering another forum favorite that several posters had gotten good results from, I started mirtazapine yesterday, with the intent of adding my old friend Effexor later if necessary. Among the specific posters I remembered having good luck with this mix, there was one *jim_morrison.*  We'll see how it goes....

One thing I can definitely relate to, though, is the larger insomnia problem. I've had awful insomnia for as long as I can remember, and ALWAYS get that side effect if there's any chance of it all. While on Nardil, I took the advice of another poster on this site and took 5mg of melatonin and 25mg of Unisom (the doxylamine--can't speak for the diphenhydramine), and that actually worked really well for several months, even with Nardil's killer insomnia ("killer" = about 2 hours of sleep/night for the first week...).

Re Ambien, I think the mixed reports are appropriate. It worked magic for me for several months, years ago, and then became completely useless (and is still useless to this day). On the other hand, I have a relative who has been taking the stuff for years, and it still works great for her. I'd definitely recommend giving it a try; when it works, it's really amazing.

As for the "doing weird stuff" bit, that's probably as variable as the tolerance, but one word of warning: if you're going to go the Ambien route, take the medicine and GO TO BED. And once you've gone to bed, DO NOT GET OUT OF BED. Years later, my friends still love to tell people all the crazy things I did/said after taking Ambien and staying/getting up, from the amusing--like walking to the convenience store in only my bathrobe--to the truly frightening--like ordering thousands of dollars of computer software on Amazon in the middle of the night--all of which apparently SEEMED like a very good idea at the time. (Thank God for suspicious activity triggers on credit cards!)

One other thing. Before giving up on the Nardil, I had wanted to try Rozerem to help me sleep, but my insurance company didn't cover it. Instead of doing the benzo-like stuff like Ambien and the z-drugs, it's apparently a "melatonin receptor agonist." From what I've read, if it works for you, you should be able to take it indefinitely without building up a tolerance for it. If you try it, I'd love to know how/if it works.

Good luck, and thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience here. I can tell you, it's been more help than you probably know.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

Bro did you try 30mg+? The lower I went from 30mg previously the worse of an effect this med had on me as well.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

travyjeremus said:


> Well, this is disappointing....
> 
> 11 months ago, this great forum led me to Nardil, which saved my job, if not my life. (Incidentally, if you can stomach the side effects, I've become convinced that Nardil is both the single best AD and the single best anxiolytic ever produced by man....) Unfortunately, the insomnia finally became too big of a problem -- I was literally skipping 2 or 3 nights of sleep a week -- so I came off of it. Remembering another forum favorite that several posters had gotten good results from, I started mirtazapine yesterday, with the intent of adding my old friend Effexor later if necessary. Among the specific posters I remembered having good luck with this mix, there was one *jim_morrison.*  We'll see how it goes....
> 
> One thing I can definitely relate to, though, is the larger insomnia problem. I've had awful insomnia for as long as I can remember, and ALWAYS get that side effect if there's any chance of it all. While on Nardil, I took the advice of another poster on this site and took 5mg of melatonin and 25mg of Unisom (the doxylamine--can't speak for the diphenhydramine), and that actually worked really well for several months, even with Nardil's killer insomnia ("killer" = about 2 hours of sleep/night for the first week...).


Hey mate, I'm glad to hear that this forum has helped you.

Yeah it was disappointing that my body could not seem to tolerate mirtazapine. But remember that this is just my individual reaction, and for what it's worth many fair extremely well on the california rocket fuel combo. So if your adament about trying it then I'd say go for it! it won't kill you. And as your probably aware finding the right med combo that reacts well with your body specifically is alot of trial and error, so even if it doesn't work out, what's one more trial? That's how I'd see it.

Re Nardil; I'm sorry to hear that you had to stop your wonder drug due to insomnia. Insomnia can be a real ***** huh? How was the doxylamine anyway? I've heard it can have some anoying anticholinergic side effects (dry mouth, trouble urinating etc) did you find this? Anyway I've also heard of people using other sleep meds to combat the nardil insomnia, seroquel and temazepam in particular seem to be popular, did you ever try out either of them with it?

All the best.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

By the way, incase anyones interested Doctorofmind released a new video about mirtazapine a few days ago;


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

travy man I had bad insomnia on nardil too, but seemed to have cleared up now. I attribute it to sublingual methyl b12. Helped me so much. I know its just a vitamin but its been great for me.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

So I was checking over my bills today, and it turns out that ever since I stopped taking mirtazapine I've been spending on average $50 less on groceries per week then I was whilst I was taking mirtazapine. Wow, just makes me realise how much more it was making me eat without even realising it at the time.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I started taking IM B12 injections yesterday (most effective way to increase blood levels) and i'm allready seeing improvement, sleeping was easier and my nerve pain (wich i think was caused by a defiency) was significantly down.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

IM B12 is actually pretty popular with bodybuilders because it increases appetite and energy, its a good vitamine to supplement.


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