# skinny guy building muscles



## benyamin (May 11, 2010)

Right now i am training at the gym. already almost two months and although i feel that i got better i am still kinda scrawny skinny i just dont know if its even possible because i have such a freaking small frame my head and body is smaller then most people and my shoulderes are small.


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## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

Protein. Lots and lots of protein.


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Charizard said:


> Protein. Lots and lots of protein.


 +1

post a pic so we can see what we are working withh​


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## dominicwalli (May 12, 2011)

lol,your head being a lil smaller than average is good if u pump urself up,it will make you look much better.and..iv seen really pumped up guys who look scrawny with shirts on,if u want to look big on shirt,try pumping mroe ur shoulders and back.thsoe make u look big with clothes on


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## super (Sep 9, 2009)

drink those 'mass gainers' it should help you


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## General Shy Guy (May 12, 2011)

super said:


> drink those 'mass gainers' it should help you


^Yup. Down some of that right after a workout for maximum effect.


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## scribe (Mar 8, 2011)

It takes time if you're a hardgainer. Those weight gain shakes are ok, but with a lot of them the massive amount of calories come from sugar. You may as well drink cake batter. I would suggest using muscle milk, three times a day, in addition to three meals. That's what I do. Take a close look at your caloric intake and make sure you're getting plenty of protein. I don't know how big you are so I can't really tell you how many calories you need. When I was trying to gain, I had to really force myself to eat throughout the day. I wasn't used to it, but I made it a habit.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

Charizard said:


> Protein. Lots and lots of protein.


I thought this was an interesting article on this topic discussing the maximum amount of protein/meal for stimulating maximal muscle protein synthesis:

*A moderate serving of high-quality protein maximally stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly subjects.*

Ingestion of sufficient dietary protein is a fundamental prerequisite for muscle protein synthesis and maintenance of muscle mass and function. Elderly people are often at increased risk for protein-energy malnutrition, sarcopenia, and a diminished quality of life. This study sought to compare changes in muscle protein synthesis and anabolic efficiency in response to a single moderate serving (113 g; 220 kcal; 30 g protein) or large serving (340 g; 660 kcal; 90 g protein) of 90% lean beef. Venous blood and vastus lateralis muscle biopsy samples were obtained during a primed, constant infusion (0.08 mumol/kg/min) of L-[ring-(13)C(6)] phenylalanine in healthy young (n=17; 34+/-3 years) and elderly (n=17; 68+/-2 years) individuals. Mixed muscle fractional synthesis rate was calculated during a 3-hour postabsorptive period and for 5 hours after meal ingestion. Data were analyzed using a two-way repeated measures analysis of variance with Tukey's pairwise comparisons. A 113-g serving of lean beef increased muscle protein synthesis by approximately 50% in both young and older volunteers. Despite a threefold increase in protein and energy content, there was no further increase in protein synthesis after ingestion of 340 g lean beef in either age group. *Ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance the stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly.*

http://abbmcertification.org/inc/as...uscle protein synthesis JAmDietAssoc 2009.pdf

A good review questioning if there's that much benefit in getting a lot of protein:

http://www.optimalhealthpartner.com... Protein for Athletes metabolic advantage.pdf


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## Zima (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh dear god. Please ignore the "drink lots of protein powder" posts.

You've been lifting for two months. Nobody has ever become huge in two months.

If you want to grow, you need to lift heavy, but more importantly, eat properly. Yes, a high protein diet, about 1-1.5g of protein per lb of body weight - but carbs and fats are just as important, and considering you're trying to grow, more than half of your macronutrient intake will be carbs.

Also, while different sources of protein will provide different "quality" of protein - remember, protein powder is just a source of protein - same as chicken. That being said, yes, go out and get yourself some ON Whey protein, chocolate flavor, at GNC or vitamin shoppe. Every time you return from the gym, immediately throw 40 grams of that into the blender with a banana, some milk, and maybe even a tbsp of peanutbutter(great source of good fats and i love the taste).

EQUALLY IMPORTANTLY, go to the grocery store and buy some chicken breast, eggs, milk, whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, beans, fruit and veggies, peanutbutter, olive oil, learn to cook if you don't know how to, and eat a nice balanced meal approximately every 3 hours.

Also, go to www.bodybuilding.com - probably the best source of information for lifting and nutrition. The forum has tons of stickies with great info and thousands of people who will answer questions.

also, eat your vitamins and sleep 8 hours a night.

edit: don't forget kashi go lean cereal. not the crunch/crisp nonsense, the regular one. no cereal comes close to that in nutritional value.


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## Lateralus (Oct 28, 2007)

^ I agree with the above post. Especially the comment about sleep that often goes unmentioned in muscle building articles. I'd also mention to allow recovery and not to overtrain muscle groups. And if you're feeling stuck, change up your routines and "confuse" your muscles.


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

benyamin said:


> Right now i am training at the gym. already almost two months and although i feel that i got better i am still kinda scrawny skinny i just dont know if its even possible because i have such a freaking small frame my head and body is smaller then most people and my shoulderes are small.


My best friend has a very skinny frame as well and just recently after two years of workout out, is he showing a noticeable increase in muscle mass. He tried taking several brands of weight gainers and they didn't do anything for him. Not sure if I recommend them, as I tried them before and all it did was give me a bigger belly.

But yeah, as stated above, you need to do the correct types of exercises. I do recommend buying protein powder from bodybuilding.com and taking a shake post workout. I've also always preferred sticking to free weights over machines.


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## Zima (Jul 6, 2011)

To the above point - yeah, it helps to love doing it, too. And you WILL love it and get addicted very soon, just as long as you stick with it and do your research about lifting and nutrition so that you see results.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

Lateralus said:


> ^ I agree with the above post. Especially the comment about sleep that often goes unmentioned in muscle building articles. I'd also mention to allow recovery and not to overtrain muscle groups. And if you're feeling stuck, change up your routines and "confuse" your muscles.


Word.

Or just go stay kind of skinny... I dig that.
Hehe lol


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

check out musclegaintruth.com

i bought it...everything youll ever need to know.its perfect


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## King Moonracer (Oct 12, 2010)

Must be nice to br skinny. All you have to do is eat TONS of meat. Everyday. Ive eaten it like everdaybof my life because my mom makes it alot. im 6'3 and 280lb and i look 240 because i have tons if natural muscle. Ive never gone lifting either.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Focus on compound movements.


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## JS13 (Jul 21, 2011)

I know how it feels. You have to train yourself HARD.


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## nSwany (Jul 21, 2011)

To gain weight you should really increase your Carb and Protein intake, I'd recommend dairy products the most, unless you're lactose intolerant. Also, keep in mind Cardio kills gains, keep running down to at most a mile or two a day.


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## Rap (Apr 29, 2011)

Yes, you can get bigger. Exercise is only 20% of the process, diet is 80%. If you're going for size, you want to continually move up in how much weight you lift whenever you can, but you also want to start changing your eating habits, and watch how much calories you burn throughout the day. 

Simple rule, If you want to gain weight, and get bigger, eat more calories then you burn.

If you want to lose weight, burn more calories then you eat.


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## uffie (May 11, 2010)

stop reading start doing push ups


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## uffie (May 11, 2010)

Auron said:


> Uffie, you dont know what you're talking about. *DONT DO PUSH UPS!* Its all about a good balanced exercise routine to work all the muscles in your body with compound lifts(and of course, a proper diet is a must)


 You have seen my physique and you know I dont know what im talking about. :um


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## straightarrows (Jun 18, 2010)

6 meals a day not more than 300grams each,,, eat+ eat + eat,,,,


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## BornInTheWrongPlanet (Jul 22, 2011)

You have to lift more weight and do less reps AND consume enough proteins to really help the growth.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

benyamin said:


> Right now i am training at the gym. already almost two months and although i feel that i got better i am still kinda scrawny skinny i just dont know if its even possible because i have such a freaking small frame my head and body is smaller then most people and my shoulderes are small.


I just noticed that he says after two months he is still skinny. You should not expect much difference after two months.

These guys talk about such issues in more detail.


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## uffie (May 11, 2010)

Auron said:


> I havent seen you, but from your previous statement I would assume you dont know what you're talking about. There is more to building muscle than doing push ups.


I dont know why one wouldnt do push ups. Its a great platform building exercise.


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## Reinvented (Apr 25, 2011)

Pushups are more of an endurance type exercise. If it's muscle size you are interested in, you need to take BornInTheWrongPlanet's advice: More weight, less reps.


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## hiimnotcool (Apr 28, 2009)

I have been working out for around 7 months. I have gained around 25 pounds in that time frame mostly from compound exercises (bench, squat, overhead press, bent over rows). The main key is to just eat a tonnnnnn.

I have two pictures in the same shirt so you can see the differences.

Before









After









It's hard to notice gains on yourself because you see yourself everyday. Take pictures because it will show you all the progress you have made!


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## mrdeez (Jul 29, 2010)

No matter what you have to eat alot more than you do now. It's science and works both ways (weight loss and weight gain). The rule of thumb is 5000 calories = 1 lb of weight gain or weight loss. I'll explain: first you need to calculate the amount of calories your body burns up without you doing anything. There are alot of calorie calculators out there (some aren't as accurate as others but they'll give you a general idea). For instance:
http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm
According to this for a 5'10" 120lb 25year old male with a sedentary lifestyle, you burn about 1700 calories a day. If you eat about 2400 calories a day, you will have a surplus of 700 calories per day (2400 - 1700) and you will gain about a lb a week (700calories x 7days = ~5000 calories = 1 lb). Here's the thing, if all you are eating is doritos and you don't do any exercise at all, that 1lb is gonna be pure fat. Your weightlifting and choice of healthy foods determine what that 1lb turns into, but you still have to eat enough calories to gain that 1lb. Use google to find approximately how many calories the foods you are eating are, but you don't have to be a perfectionist.

For exercise: Make sure you do compound exercises (exercises that use more than one muscle) and make sure to work out your legs, when your legs grow bigger, the rest of your body grows bigger with it. For a beginner a simple workout that would hit all your muscles is this:

Bench Press (3 sets of X repetitions)
Pullups or Cable pulldowns if you cant do a pullup (3 sets of X reps)
Squats (3 sets of X reps)
Overhead press (3 sets of X reps)
Situps (3 sets of X reps)

It is crucial to increase the weight you are doing which is why I put 3 sets of X reps. Once you can do 3 sets of 10 reps, increase the weight, then keep working out until you can do 3 sets of 10 reps again, the repeat. For the pullups and situps you can add weights to the exercise once you make it to 3x10 pullups and situps. Weight can be added to pullups by hanging weights off a weight belt, and weight can be added to situps by holding a weight plate behind your head or on your chest. For squats, start with very light weight and make sure you have very good form. If you try to go too heavy with bad form you'll hurt yourself and be unable to workout for weeks. There are many websites that will tell you what good squatting form is.

Once you get the hang of this workout you can start swap in weighted dips for bench press and deadlifts for squats.

Also, a good 1-hr weightlifting workout will burn at least 300 calories throughout the workout and when your body is recovering. Make sure you calculate that into your calorie intake:
For example, you're body burns 1700 calories not doing anything, you want to gain 1lb a week, and you lift weights 3 times a week for 1 hr. You need to eat at least 2550 calories a day.
5000 calories + 300 calories * 3 = 5900 calories
5900 calories / 7 = 850 calories
1700 calories + 850 = 2550 calories per day.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

mrdeez said:


> The rule of thumb is 5000 calories = 1 lb of weight gain or weight loss.


I know I'm being picky but wouldn't that depend on whether that gain is muscle or fat since 1 lb of fat contains significantly more calories than 1 lb of muscle?


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## mrdeez (Jul 29, 2010)

You're not being picky, good catch! Muscle is less calories/gram than fat, so if you could guarantee you are putting on pure muscle you could probably eat half as many excess calories and gain the same amount of weight. However, it is difficult to do this and most people go through a bulking phase (eat a ton and put on a ton of muscle and fat) then a cutting phase (maintain your muscle with weekly lifting and cut out the fat with alot of cardio).


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## scribe (Mar 8, 2011)

Pushups are a good exercise to do between free weight exercises like bench presses or dumbell presses. Crank out a set of dumbell presses, then immediately do a set of pushups. Do three sets like this to really burn up your chest. 

And if you really want to try a truly nasty mass building program, try the 20 rep squat routine, if you dare. Not for the faint hearted.


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## binny (Aug 5, 2011)

Heavier weights lesser repititions, Focus on more leg/ back workouts since this releases testosterone. Work out less but more intensive . So work out 3 days per week, 1 hr maximum per session


Eat more alot of Wholesome foods wholemeal bread, broccoli, egg whites, lean meats and drink protein shake minimum 1 per day. Also most important sleep for 8 hrs minimum per day and rest between workouts another important thing.

Seeing as your an ectomorph 50% carbs 25% protein and 25% fat is your diet requirement. 

source Me Im doing weights atm and ive followed this and its been working you should start seeing weight gain results after 12 weeks of sticking to this schedule. I know it sucks but thats life not everyone is born genetically great.

But even though your not seeing weight gain you'll still getting toned.


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## Mr Mask (Jul 11, 2011)

hiimnotcool said:


> I have been working out for around 7 months. I have gained around 25 pounds in that time frame mostly from compound exercises (bench, squat, overhead press, bent over rows). The main key is to just eat a tonnnnnn.
> 
> I have two pictures in the same shirt so you can see the differences.
> 
> ...


Daaaamn, this is my dream! Thanks for posting this, its inspirational!!!


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## Pr0n (May 20, 2010)

Go to one of the numerous BB forums, and look for newbie sections. You'll find plenty of advices about eating.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

type in growth stimulus training bodybuilding.com to google. It will make you huge, i was skinny too. you have to eat a ton though 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight.

BUT, i can no longer do the squats and deadlifts and I recommend nobody does them ever agin in their lives. they DESTROY your back. Ive been doing them for only like 3 months and my back is kinda messed up, not beyond repair though I'll be back soon hopefully.

I wouldnt buy gainer either, its kinda bogus. just buy protein powder


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## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

^^^ You sure you were doing the squats/deadlifts correctly ?

If ya form isnt 100% correct its very easy to injure yourself in both those exercises.


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## General Shy Guy (May 12, 2011)

The Professor said:


> I wouldnt buy gainer either, its kinda bogus. just buy protein powder


Not really. If you're not getting enough calories every day, a weight gainer is great to drink after a workout. It also has a good amount of protein in it. Two birds with one stone.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

jimbo00 said:


> ^^^ You sure you were doing the squats/deadlifts correctly ?
> 
> If ya form isnt 100% correct its very easy to injure yourself in both those exercises.


My lower back is a little more arched to begin with, which doesn't help. But I specifically asked my chiropractor "Can you still hurt your back even if your form is 100% perfect?" He said yes and he has had competitive weightlifters come to him who do deadlifts and their spines are completely straight all the way through! spines are supposed to have a natural curve in the lower back. I know how good they are for building muscle but it's not worth it.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

General Shy Guy said:


> Not really. If you're not getting enough calories every day, a weight gainer is great to drink after a workout. It also has a good amount of protein in it. Two birds with one stone.


I've done so much research on this. the best thing to have directly after a workout are simple carbs like dextrose and maltodextrin, along with hydrolyzed protein in a 2:1 ratio.

Gainer is just to take during the day to increase your total calorie consumption. I say it's bogus because it has so many carbs. You can just have a little more protein powder and drink some omega 3-6-9 oil. You should definitely get enough carbs in your ordinary diet. If you don't care about gaining pure muscle, and you just want to gain "weight" in general, than gainer is good.


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

The Professor said:


> BUT, i can no longer do the squats and deadlifts and I recommend nobody does them ever agin in their lives. they DESTROY your back. Ive been doing them for only like 3 months and my back is kinda messed up, not beyond repair though I'll be back soon hopefully.


Most people will actually strengthen their backs with proper deadlifting/squatting. Peoples' bodies do vary though, and there probably are some people that should avoid these exercises, but I'd say they're the minority.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

TheoBobTing said:


> Most people will actually strengthen their backs with proper deadlifting/squatting. Peoples' bodies do vary though, and there probably are some people that should avoid these exercises, but I'd say they're the minority.


yes... they will strengthen their back muscles, as did i. but destroy their spines. You can't strengthen a bone by lifting weights. Why would my chiropractor lie? He would get more business by telling people to continue doing deadlifts and squats.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

The Professor said:


> You can't strengthen a bone by lifting weights.


That's absolutely false. In fact, weight training is one of the best ways to strengthen bones. Just google it. The issue of proper deadlift/squat form that may vary slightly for a given individual to minimize shear and compressive forces and minimize injury is a whole other issue.


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## binny (Aug 5, 2011)

The Professor said:


> type in growth stimulus training bodybuilding.com to google. It will make you huge, i was skinny too. you have to eat a ton though 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight.
> 
> BUT, i can no longer do the squats and deadlifts and I recommend nobody does them ever agin in their lives. they DESTROY your back. Ive been doing them for only like 3 months and my back is kinda messed up, not beyond repair though I'll be back soon hopefully.
> 
> I wouldnt buy gainer either, its kinda bogus. just buy protein powder


Its safe if you do it correctly best way is to always have a spotter.


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## awfulness (Jul 13, 2009)

TheoBobTing said:


> Most people will actually strengthen their backs with proper deadlifting/squatting. Peoples' bodies do vary though, and there probably are some people that should avoid these exercises, but I'd say they're the minority.


do you think he just had bad form?

cause my back is messed up and the doctor told me buildling muscle will help my back. So I'm gonna be planning on doing lots of exercises that work the abs and lower back.. such as squats and deadlifts. Is this not a good idea?


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## Lateralus (Oct 28, 2007)

^I would trust your doctor over random people on the internet who have not examined you, let alone have a medical degree. lol


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Screw everything just take the hgh


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## Reinvented (Apr 25, 2011)

Lateralus said:


> ^I would trust your doctor over random people on the internet who have not examined you, let alone have a medical degree. lol


Don't be silly. Everyone on the internet is an expert.


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

awfulness said:


> do you think he just had bad form?
> 
> cause my back is messed up and the doctor told me buildling muscle will help my back. So I'm gonna be planning on doing lots of exercises that work the abs and lower back.. such as squats and deadlifts. Is this not a good idea?


Suggest these particular exercises to your doc and see what he says. They could well be very helpful used with good form, but if you're carrying a pre-existing injury then that complicates matters somewhat.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

Okay you're right it can increase bone density... but thats not the point. No matter how good your form is it will ruin your back if done with heavy weight. I'm not talking as a "random person on the internet" I'm telling you exactly what my chiropractor just told me! 

You may being doing squats and deadlifts now with "perfect form" and feel great and be building tons of muscle, as was I. But you won't feel the pain now, you'll feel it in 20 years and your back will be messed up beyond repair. 

I was pissed to hear it too I used to swear by those exercises they were GREAT. that's why about every 15 years deadlifts go in and out of style... people realize they hurt your back when you get older, but the young people doing them swear by it.

They may strengthen muscles and bones, but they misalign your SPINE and compact the disks. Do what you want, but i will never do them again


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## scribe (Mar 8, 2011)

Deadlifts are the one exercise I avoid completely. It's just too easy to hurt your back. Just a momentary lapse of form is all it takes.


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## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

Just outa curiosity, when you mentioned squats come/go every 15 years, where are you getting that information from ?

A family friend of ours has been doing squats for 20+ years, he's in his 50's now and also happens to be a surgeon.....

I do agree partly though, even doing them once (incorrectly) could totaly ruin your back.

Either way, each to there own I guess 



The Professor said:


> Okay you're right it can increase bone density... but thats not the point. No matter how good your form is it will ruin your back if done with heavy weight. I'm not talking as a "random person on the internet" I'm telling you exactly what my chiropractor just told me!
> 
> You may being doing squats and deadlifts now with "perfect form" and feel great and be building tons of muscle, as was I. But you won't feel the pain now, you'll feel it in 20 years and your back will be messed up beyond repair.
> 
> ...


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

jimbo00 said:


> Just outa curiosity, when you mentioned squats come/go every 15 years, where are you getting that information from ?
> 
> A family friend of ours has been doing squats for 20+ years, he's in his 50's now and also happens to be a surgeon.....
> 
> ...


Well what I mean is that they go in and out of style, like go to some bodybuilding forums and you'll here "the king (deadlifts) is dead" and they say that it shouldn't be. But it has to be dead for a reason right?...It's because when people who have been doing them for years get older, they realize that they are dangerous exercises. The back problems will not be felt instantly.

It has nothing to do with form. It's the nature of the movement that compacts the spine, given that you're loading with sufficient weight.


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

The Professor said:


> Well what I mean is that they go in and out of style, like go to some bodybuilding forums and you'll here "the king (deadlifts) is dead" and they say that it shouldn't be. But it has to be dead for a reason right?...It's because when people who have been doing them for years get older, they realize that they are dangerous exercises. The back problems will not be felt instantly.
> 
> It has nothing to do with form. It's the nature of the movement that compacts the spine, given that you're loading with sufficient weight.


I've read about these exercises a bit and conventional wisdom seems to disagree with you.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

Lateralus said:


> ^I would trust your doctor over random people on the internet who have not examined you, let alone have a medical degree. lol


the sacred golden reply for this thread !!!!! lol


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

TheoBobTing said:


> I've read about these exercises a bit and conventional wisdom seems to disagree with you.


explain yourself... how does conventional wisdom disagree with me?

And it doesn't disagree with just me, it also must disagree with my chiropractor, and I trust my chiropractor over conventional wisdom. Go ahead and keep doing squats and deadlifts (assuming you are serious about it and do at least 1.5 times your body weight) and if you continue to do them for a few years, by the time you are 40 you WILL have problems with your back.


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## shadowmask (Jun 22, 2009)

The Professor said:


> Well what I mean is that they go in and out of style, like go to some bodybuilding forums and you'll here "the king (deadlifts) is dead" and they say that it shouldn't be. But it has to be dead for a reason right?...It's because when people who have been doing them for years get older, they realize that they are dangerous exercises. The back problems will not be felt instantly.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

shadowmask said:


>


you disagree?


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## shadowmask (Jun 22, 2009)

The Professor said:


> you disagree?


You claim the deadlift has gone "in and out of style"...I'm not quite sure what you mean. It's been a staple exercise in bodybuilding and powerlifting since the early days, and I've never seen anyone on a forum seriously argue that it's "dead". It's widely regarded in the lifting community as a beneficial and key compound movement that should be incorporated in most, if not all routines. From what I've seen anyway, obviously I don't know the consensus of every lifter on the planet.

Of course, you can get hurt doing it. You can get hurt doing any exercise. And while there is a higher risk factor involved with deadlifting, considering the muscles involved and the poundages needed to make it effective, there's no guarantee that it will result in spinal injury in the short or long-term, given that proper form and weight are utilized. For every chiropractor that claims so, there are numerous athletes, coaches, bodybuilders, and exercise physiologists who would say otherwise.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

shadowmask said:


> You claim the deadlift has gone "in and out of style"...I'm not quite sure what you mean. It's been a staple exercise in bodybuilding and powerlifting since the early days, and I've never seen anyone on a forum seriously argue that it's "dead". It's widely regarded in the lifting community as a beneficial and key compound movement that should be incorporated in most, if not all routines. From what I've seen anyway, obviously I don't know the consensus of every lifter on the planet.
> 
> Of course, you can get hurt doing it. You can get hurt doing any exercise. And while there is a higher risk factor involved with deadlifting, considering the muscles involved and the poundages needed to make it effective, there's no guarantee that it will result in spinal injury in the short or long-term, given that proper form and weight are utilized. For every chiropractor that claims so, there are numerous athletes, coaches, bodybuilders, and exercise physiologists who would say otherwise.


"in and out of style" may not have been the best words to describe what I meant. Let's just say it's not as popular as it used to be, which is true. It is regarded as a beneficial and key movement, but that doesn't mean everyone does it...i know the real serious lifter do it though.

But why would my chiropractor say that if he didn't know it was true? If anything he would tell people to keep doing them so they would get hurt and then have to come see him and make him more money.

i guess we just disagree. If someone does them once a week with AS MUCH WEIGHT AS THEY CAN for, say 4 reps, over the course of 10 years, i truly believe they will have back problems when they are older-no exceptions... because thats what a deadlift does: it puts pressure on the spine and compacts it, you can't deny that. I would always try to hang from a pull up bar after doing them to try to stretch it out again.

and its has been known for a long time that squats can really hurt your back if you use a lot of weight, but I'm not gonna argue about this one because I don't know enough.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

These position statements don't seem very convincing because they don't cite much long-term research but here's a few positions:

*1. Safety of the Squat Exercise* (American College of Sports Medicine):

http://www.acsm.org/AM/Template.cfm...emplate=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=8652

*2. Squat Position Paper *(NSCA-National Strength & Conditioning Association):

http://www.nsca-lift.org/publications/SQTforWeb.pdf


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

nice. Ill read them more thoroughly tomorrow but the second one seems to be in line with my statements on the back. Good form helps, but its still compressing the lower spine.

anything on deadlifts?


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## PlzNoBanMe (Aug 14, 2011)

I'm in the same boat OP, but lately I have finally been seeing strength gains, and I am a very hard gainer. There isn't much physical difference yet, but I think I've finally figured it all out. Remember that it will take you years to reach your full genetic potential. Stay on track, never give up. Sometimes you will taste failure, and minor injuries are nearly inevitable. When that happens, take a break to recuperate. Focus on major core exercises. Save the isolation ones for when you have already packed some muscle on. As a hard gainer, make sure you have plenty of rest between work outs. Most easy gainers will tell you to work out every day, or every other day, but to the majority of the population this advice is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. Work out one to two times a week, and keep your progression linear. Either add a pound to what you're lifting every work out, or if that isn't possible then increase the number of reps. So say you're starting out an exercise at 100 pounds. To progress to 110, add two reps to every work out until you reach a predetermined number of reps. Then try 110 at a lower number of reps and begin rebuilding. I recommend reading the book Beyond Brawn, written by Stuart Mcrobert. It's far better than any other piece of bodybuilding related literature I've read.


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## Juracule (Aug 10, 2011)

1. Do Starting Strength
2. Do GOMAD
3. ???
4. Profit.


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

The Professor said:


> explain yourself... how does conventional wisdom disagree with me?
> 
> And it doesn't disagree with just me, it also must disagree with my chiropractor, and I trust my chiropractor over conventional wisdom. *Go ahead and keep doing squats and deadlifts (assuming you are serious about it and do at least 1.5 times your body weight) and if you continue to do them for a few years, by the time you are 40 you WILL have problems with your back*.


That is basically an opinion presented as though it is a fact.

I don't want to debate this. You're free to disagree with me and tell other people your opinions but make sure you let them know they are just your opinions and not concrete facts.


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## Michael James (Aug 6, 2011)

Get some T-Bomb II, I have used it with great results! It is a testosterone booster so use only if your serious about getting bigger. It will increase your sex drive and make your voice a little deeper which is pretty cool! Also invest in some good whey protein.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

Michael James said:


> Get some T-Bomb II, I have used it with great results! It is a testosterone booster so use only if your serious about getting bigger. It will increase your sex drive and make your voice a little deeper which is pretty cool! Also invest in some good whey protein.


I tried a bottle of that... It was pretty good!


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

PlzNoBanMe said:


> Work out one to two times a week, and keep your progression linear.


This confuses me a little. Simply because I had to take six days off from my workout regime and when I started up again today my muscles got tired quite quickly and I almost quit. A friend (All Canadian athlete) explained it as the muscles aren't getting enough oxygen which is merely a reflection of my cardio endurance going down so it's best to work out three or four times a week to avoid it. I trust what he says given how far he got with track but wondered what others thought given this quote here disagrees.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

seafolly said:


> This confuses me a little. Simply because I had to take six days off from my workout regime and when I started up again today my muscles got tired quite quickly and I almost quit. A friend (All Canadian athlete) explained it as the muscles aren't getting enough oxygen which is merely a reflection of my cardio endurance going down so it's best to work out three or four times a week to avoid it. I trust what he says given how far he got with track but wondered what others thought given this quote here disagrees.


Good question. This thread is strictly talking about weightlifting, where it is bad to work the same muscle group without sufficient rest (probably 3-5 days, but it varies based on individual training plans).

Running (cardio), on the other hand, should actually be done everyday, if you are really serious about it. I ran cross country and track in high school and my coaches (who actually wrote books about running) say that it is best to run everyday; Of course, you vary the intensities of the workouts. Generically it would be like "high intensity, shorter distance" on day 1, "fairly high intensity, intermediate distance" day 2 and "long and slow" day 3.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

The Professor said:


> Good question. This thread is strictly talking about weightlifting, where it is bad to work the same muscle group without sufficient rest (probably 3-5 days, but it varies based on individual training plans).
> 
> Running (cardio), on the other hand, should actually be done everyday, if you are really serious about it. I ran cross country and track in high school and my coaches (who actually wrote books about running) say that it is best to run everyday; Of course, you vary the intensities of the workouts. Generically it would be like "high intensity, shorter distance" on day 1, "fairly high intensity, intermediate distance" day 2 and "long and slow" day 3.


Ah this makes sense! Thank you for clearing that up!  What I do is pretty cardio based but there is some strength training involved at well. Nothing serious involving actual weights but things like squats and lunges and crunches are thrown in. I merely use a band and shorten it when I need more of a challenge. Day 1 that week will focus on, say, lower body muscle groups and the next day will involve more arm muscle giving the legs a small breather.

This guy ran every day so it sounds like you two are on the same page! Eventually I would like to get into running (once I can get my butt outdoors without fainting clean away) so it's great stocking up these tidbits. Thanks!

Edit: This sounds like such a wussy regime but I swear it's working for me, haha, I've discovered new muscles!


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## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

Seafolly - How do you use the band thingy for squats ? And do the bands relate to a weight ? as in 1 band = 10kg or something ?

Im using weights for squats and its getting very dangerous now as I dont have a spotter (allthough I dont no how the spotter would hold the weight anyways). Id be curious to try the bands if they are safer ?


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## angus (Dec 18, 2010)

Don't waste your money on protien drinks and creatin. Milk, eggs, and sushi natuaral muscle building protiens.


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## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

Nothing wrong with having protein drink after working out, or during the day if you have to... Its also only expensive if you get suckered into buying those huge tubs with the shiny labels that cost like $100000000.

And I dont get the deal with the eggs (whites). Theres like 20cal/3g protein in each one.. You'd need to have a full box of 12 and that would be like a small snack.. at $6. I spose if you want to loose weight there good.

Also... creatine is like the only proven supplement that works..


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

jimbo00 said:


> Seafolly - How do you use the band thingy for squats ? And do the bands relate to a weight ? as in 1 band = 10kg or something ?
> 
> Im using weights for squats and its getting very dangerous now as I dont have a spotter (allthough I dont no how the spotter would hold the weight anyways). Id be curious to try the bands if they are safer ?


Sorry I was misleading there. The band doesn't effect the squat itself, but I often stand on the band, squat, stand, and press up or some sort of combination like that. It's not involved with the lunges either unless you stand on it and use it as a combination.  I'm sure there's a way to calculate the resistance but I've yet to learn how it's done I'm afraid. Thicker rubber would mean more resistance that's for sure. I'm not sure the tension is constant either. All I know is there are biceps and deltoids where there was skin and bone before. :lol There are "triceps kickbacks" I do with the band which is certainly building muscle as my Golden is having a tougher time breaking her heel on a walk.


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## shadowmask (Jun 22, 2009)

The Professor said:


> "in and out of style" may not have been the best words to describe what I meant. Let's just say it's not as popular as it used to be, which is true.


How did you come to this conclusion? What method did you use to determine the popularity levels of the deadlift over a time period, and how big is said time period? Among what group are you determining it's popularity? Bodybuilders, athletes, personal trainers, the average gym-goer?


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

shadowmask said:


> How did you come to this conclusion? What method did you use to determine the popularity levels of the deadlift over a time period, and how big is said time period? Among what group are you determining it's popularity? Bodybuilders, athletes, personal trainers, the average gym-goer?


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/schultz35.htm


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

This is the training program I was on, it was really great but I had to discontinue the squats/deadlifts parts due to injury it caused to my back. If you are't worried about your back or if you already do squats deadlifts, I really recommend this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121353501

Seafolly: it doesn't seem wussy at all! it all depends what your goals are. I'm sure you don't want to be a bodybuilder; you just want to be in good shape and have some defined muscle tone right? And I'm glad to hear you're getting results! But to answer your original question, I would say that based on what you are doing with the strength training, it would be best to take *2-3 days* rest before doing the same muscle group again


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## Invalid Username (May 25, 2011)

For an example of someone that was an extreme ectomorph (skinny, little muscle) that managed to beat the odds and become huge, look up zyzz. Just ignore all of the bias.


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## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

Invalid Username said:


> For an example of someone that was an extreme ectomorph (skinny, little muscle) *that managed to beat the odds and become huge*, look up zyzz. Just ignore all of the bias.


With the assistance of some synthetic testosterone. Not that he didn't put in the work at the gym and in the kitchen but he wouldn't have gotten those same results in such a short period of time.


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

Creatine can be very helpful. I think it basically makes you able to train with slightly heavier weights by replenishing your ATP supply a bit when you're training hard. Also, I think it might draw water into your muscles to make them bigger. When I took some my mother was like "bloody hell, you're starting to look like the hulk", and I think I was handling more weight. You need to drink a ****load of water while on it though, and every now and then you have to take a break from it just so that your body doesn't become dependant on it (a precaution more than anything, I think). I stopped taking it though, but would start again if I felt serious about lifting.


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

I just started taking Jack3d for pre-workout instead of creatine

I think its better as you only take Jack3d on workout days, whereas creatine has to be taken everyday.


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## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

jack3d and creatine are completly diff.... jack3d is pre-workout supplement to give you energy/focus etc etc... whereas creatine most people take after workout, and it takes a few weeks for your body to absorb enough to actually do anything. Creatine is also heaaapps cheaper, evan though you take it everyday.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

nemesis1 said:


> I just started taking Jack3d for pre-workout instead of creatine
> 
> I think its better as you only take Jack3d on workout days, whereas creatine has to be taken everyday.


I finally decided to try jack3d too. It's by far the best pre workout supp I've ever taken, even though the pump isn't that good.

Jack3d actually *has* creatine in it. I'm not sure how much. I think it's less than 2 grams per scoop though, and you probably take 5 grams of pure creatine.


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## JimmyDeansRetartedCousin (Nov 28, 2009)

^Jack3d is greaaat.

___________________________________

I went from 170lbs to 187lbs in two years, I lifted a lot of weights in the beginning. I have a before picture somewhere but I aint postin that!... Now I just aim to keep fit enough for surfing, I do a full body workout on my off days, sometimes split it if it's like a week or so.

My advice is the advice of errrbody else on here, if you want to get big, eat everything and do the main compound exercises. Sleep, water, protein. 

Don't hurt yourself or lift with your ego, warm up, cool down. Stay classy.


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