# Sticky  MAOI Diet List**updated w/exceptions



## mr t

Here is the link to pdf file i uploaded:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105365962

I think this is one of the better ive found online and is far more than the original MAOI diet lists. I dont agree completely with this list but it is more reasonable than most others. I will list my disagreements below.

**A few of my own notes on this list**:

I've found these "prohibited" foods OK to eat:
Cheeses: cheddar, provolone, parmensan
Soy sauce
Caffeine
Chocolate
whey protein powder


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## CD700

I ate ALMOST everything on the list and got drunk off tap beer but I never went the soy sauce 
Your crazy bro!
Was it a little dip on your dim sim ?
I like soy sauce but It was the one thing I knocked back on Parnate


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## viper1431

I can't get enough soy sauce and havn't had a problem. Didn't even remember it was on the list


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## CleverUsername

Coffee and tea are okay? What about bananas and yogurt?


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## mr t

CleverUsername said:


> Coffee and tea are okay? What about bananas and yogurt?


Those are all fine.

I've eaten bananas with no problems. Also drink like 4 cups of coffee a day so i know thats fine haha. Yogurt is ok too.


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## mr t

blakeyz said:


> I ate ALMOST everything on the list and got drunk off tap beer but I never went the soy sauce
> Your crazy bro!
> Was it a little dip on your dim sim ?
> I like soy sauce but It was the one thing I knocked back on Parnate


i soak my chinese food with soy sauce lol. no problems there


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## CleverUsername

mr t said:


> i soak my chinese food with soy sauce lol. no problems there


What about meats? Beef (burgers), chicken, turkey? I know I'm supposed to stay away from ham.


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## puppy

Fresh meat is fine. It's cured meats that are contraindicated, though personally I have eaten most of them with no problems.


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## mr t

CleverUsername said:


> What about meats? Beef (burgers), chicken, turkey? I know I'm supposed to stay away from ham.


Ham is fine. Just stay away from aged meats


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## lonelyjew

blakeyz said:


> I ate ALMOST everything on the list and got drunk off tap beer but I never went the soy sauce
> Your crazy bro!
> Was it a little dip on your dim sim ?
> I like soy sauce but It was the one thing I knocked back on Parnate


I'd imagine the specific MAOI you're taking, how much of it, how soon after you ate the food, how much food you ate, and individual things about your body will all make an impact on whether or not you get a hypertensive crisis. It's good that you haven't had one, sucks for others who aren't so lucky.


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## Caedmon

I have taken Parnate for about 6-7 years now. I only avoid these foods:
- aged cheeses
The end. Seriously. Well i have yet to try fava bean or banana peel. They're not on my short list.

Never had a problem.

And I avoid drug-drug interactions like with sympathomimetics or dextromethorphan. (I have no problems dealing with colds and sinuses btw, I just use other remedies)


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## bob1471

*forbidden foods*

Nobody has mentioned liver?

"....I ate his liver with fava beans and a bottle of Chianti..."

So said that renowned psychiatrist Dr Hannibal Lector, in 'Silence of the Lambs'. Did he know something we don't?

I have eaten liver too (not human of course), and almost everything on that banned list. The only bad reaction I ever had was when injected with Pethedine in hospital.... v. v. nasty, it seems to reverse the pain killing effect, which is most definitely NOT what you want! I went into shock and nearly died.


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## debi2453

I have been on parnate for 1 year now....I have 1 cut of coffee every morning..it's a must for me to be able to like any one. I have also had chocolate with no problems, commercial gravy, but a bit paranoid to really wander too far off. I do know that it took about 3 full weeks for the parnate to start working. But it definitely does. I take 30 ml each day and i take the first amt which is 20ml in the am and the last 10ml at noon. This works best for me to be able to sleep at night. Dr. Are so afraid of the maoi's unless you have exhausted all other ad...which I did. I do take seroquel at night for sleep, which helps more for anxiety than sleep. I'm excited to find a parnate board as there are not many. Good luck too all of you who are now on maoi's.


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## tara1245

Be careful. Even though I think the dangers w/food interactions are overblown, I had a serious hypertensive crisis from eating provolone cheese. I think the cheese was nearing or passed it's exp date and that had something to do with it. I was getting pretty cavalier about what I ate and that definitely opened my eyes a bit. My blood pressure shot up to 200/ over something and it happened pretty fast. Normally my bp is quite low.


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## orchidrose

I am suppose to start Parnate middle of next week. (waiting for Wellbutrin leave my system) My doctor is starting me on a low does, I assume, 10 mg a day. I am very nervous to start this but at the same time so hopeful it works. I have tried 21 AD meds and so fed up with not being able to find something that works for my depression and extreme low energy. Does it help well with energy? I read further up it takes 3 weeks to kick in ... does it take that long to feel the energy boost from it as well? Any insight anyone has on this med, please share!!


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## viper1431

I wonder though how many people that have eaten food on the avoid list have actually tested their blood pressure right after it.
My bp could shoot up well into the 200's at times while on parnate but would never have known if i hadn't had my own bp tester. So not feeling different doesn't mean it's safe, you have to actually test your BP to find what's going on.


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## zendog78

If your on parnate you really need to follow the diet. If your on nardil your fine. I have on it for years and the I couldn't count the amount of times I have gorged on cheese and red wine.

I eat anything and everything and never had a problem. Sometimes with the chees and red wine I might feel a little flushed but thats it, always hypotension, never hypertension.

Parnate, a few pieces of blue vein cheese sent my bp through the roof, respect that ****


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## viper1431

I was on parnate while in hospital once, practically no one knew what it was to the point where i was getting offered vegemite on toast for breakfast by the nurses


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## shy-one

The only times I have had a mild reaction from food on nardil:

- Braised beef in red wine sauce (probably the red wine, or maybe the beef was "stewed" for ages)

- Some weird mustard on a gourmet burger, can't figure that one out.

- Left over meatlovers pizza from dominos. Was only 1 day old (kept in the fridge), but I suspect it was more from the meat than anything else. 

Luckily these were only ever mild. Symptoms were a bit of a stronger heartbeat, slower pulse, nausea, and feeling weird in the head (kinda like pins and needles). 

Never had a problem with mozzarella cheese which is good as it is often the cheese used on pizza's. 

Haven't been game enough to try soy sauce due to variation among soy sauces.


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## Chris John

Under the list of food that must be absolutely avoided is broad bean pods. Anybody know what broad bean pods are?

Also, it says to avoid coffee. I'm assuming this is because of the caffeine and that decaf would be fine? Sometimes on weekends I'll drink cup after cup of decaf coffee.


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## watertouch

Bacon, anyone tried it? i know its smoked a bit for the taste, then wakumpacked...


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## ChopSuey

watertouch said:


> Bacon, anyone tried it? i know its smoked a bit for the taste, then wakumpacked...


I've had it loads of times without any noticeable change in BP.


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## watertouch

ChopSuey said:


> I've had it loads of times without any noticeable change in BP.


Nice a really missed id before while on Parnate.. Was super carefull...
Then found Ken Gillmans list wich he now charges for... But yeah Bacon wasnt mention... (for some reason its really common i think)


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## barry1685

How do you guys handle eating over a friend's house or going to a restaurant? I would be too nervous to try soups and meats since any of them could be aged. I think a safe bet would be Italian without cheese!


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## Caedmon

barry1685 said:


> How do you guys handle eating over a friend's house or going to a restaurant? I would be too nervous to try soups and meats since any of them could be aged. I think a safe bet would be Italian without cheese!


At restaurants they usually list the cheese types. You can ask the server. I eat cheddar no problem. To be honest I eat... er, all of it. (Shhhh!) But not blue cheese. Blue cheese looks gross. And I do avoid cheese if it explicitly says "aged" on it. To servers or to less-intimate friends and family, I just explain I am allergic to some types of cheeses. If they ask I just explain it gives me a migraine. No one bats an eye.

Sausage, prosciutto, ham, bacon, it all goes in the tummy.

No sauerkraut. Is that on the list? Stuff's gross anyway. I don't eat fava beans or banana peels. That has not been a problem.

I actually don't know the list anymore. It's been a long time since I ever worried about the MAOI diet.

*For the record I do not necessarily endorse this approach to anyone else taking an MAOI.*


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## barry1685

Okay here is a tricky one, what about Chinese places? I went to a Chinese buffet and was thinking how screwed I would be if I was on a MAOI.


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## mr t

barry1685 said:


> Okay here is a tricky one, what about Chinese places? I went to a Chinese buffet and was thinking how screwed I would be if I was on a MAOI.


ive never had a problem with any chinese food and i love my chinese!

soy sauce is fine too.


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## UltraShy

Caedmon said:


> I eat cheddar no problem.


I tried mild cheddar last night and my BP didn't rise at all. Next I should try extra sharp since mild has no damn flavor. Though extra sharp would be aged, so that might actually be a problem.


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## GiftofGABA

Sensitivity to tyramine depends on the individual but also the degree of established irreversible MAO inhibition. So you'll get a more powerful tyramine reaction later on in your trial when intestinal MAO-A becomes less available.

In terms of cheese, a study was done on 14 cheddars where they measured tyramine content. The amounts varied from 72mcg-953mcg per gram. You don't want to get near 25mg or 25000mcg.


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## Aerovis

Anyone have any experience with MAOI's and taking probiotics or kefir?


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## CEB32

Pretty shocked to see people still use these, how do you get on with them?


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## Aerovis

CEB32 said:


> Pretty shocked to see people still use these, how do you get on with them?


Pretty well, its really not that bad nor big of a deal.


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## UltraShy

CEB32 said:


> Pretty shocked to see people still use these, how do you get on with them?


I just saw my doctor today and my Parnate dose was raised from 30mg to 60mg. First day at 60mg and shockingly I'm still alive, so I seem to get on OK.


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## UltraShy

GiftofGABA said:


> Sensitivity to tyramine depends on the individual but also the degree of established irreversible MAO inhibition. So you'll get a more powerful tyramine reaction later on in your trial when intestinal MAO-A becomes less available.
> 
> In terms of cheese, a study was done on 14 cheddars where they measured tyramine content. The amounts varied from 72mcg-953mcg per gram. You don't want to get near 25mg or 25000mcg.


Well, I can still eat Aldi Extra Sharp Cheddar (aged 9 months). That's after 21 days at a "real" dose (2 days @ 60mg + 19 days @ 70mg).

There may be some "cheese effect." My BP *might* rise by 10 points after consumption or it could just be a random BP fluctuation. Further study is needed to determine that. Either way it doesn't really matter. Even if the cheese is pushing my BP up by 10 points I'm not going to change my diet as that's a trivial BP change. A modest short term rise in BP a few times a week isn't going to shorten my life, so I'm not going to change my diet and I'm not going to worry about it. I like aged cheddar and I'm going to eat it. I'd avoid it if there were a serious reaction, but when it's so minor you can't tell if it's even for real and not just a random fluctuation I'm not going to worry.


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## boooradley

they still prescribe MAOIs? stuff is dangerous seems not even worth taking. i dont know a single person who has ever even tried them. we all get SSRIs, SNRIs, and benzos.


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## Caedmon

boooradley said:


> they still prescribe MAOIs? stuff is dangerous seems not even worth taking. i dont know a single person who has ever even tried them. we all get SSRIs, SNRIs, and benzos.


Been on an MAOI for 8 years. I ain't dead yet!


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## boooradley

Caedmon said:


> Been on an MAOI for 8 years. I ain't dead yet!


glad to hear the ain't dead part and i wish you the best of health. i guess i really dont know a whole lot about them but drs, other people, and from reading they always sounded like they could be pretty dangerous.

is it true they actually permanently change your brain or certain brain chemistry? and if so what do they mean by permanent? is it forever or just a long period of time?

just did some quick reading and it sounds like some of the older ones cause irreversible MAO inhibition such as phenelzine. just sounds kinda scary to me.


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## Caedmon

boooradley said:


> glad to hear the ain't dead part and i wish you the best of health. i guess i really dont know a whole lot about them but drs, other people, and from reading they always sounded like they could be pretty dangerous.
> 
> is it true they actually permanently change your brain or certain brain chemistry? and if so what do they mean by permanent? is it forever or just a long period of time?


Who is "they", and what do they say changes?



> just did some quick reading and it sounds like some of the older ones cause irreversible MAO inhibition such as phenelzine. just sounds kinda scary to me.


This is simply a biochemistry term, If I am not mistaken.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060724/msgs/670760.html

P.s. Do you know anyone named butterz?


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## boooradley

Caedmon said:


> Who is "they", and what do they say changes?
> 
> This is simply a biochemistry term, If I am not mistaken.
> 
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060724/msgs/670760.html
> 
> P.s. Do you know anyone named butterz?


i just thought i remembered reading somewhere about them permanently changing something in the brain. my doctor also basically told me they have a lot more reported side effects and other problems compared to a lot of the newer SSRIs and SNRis. he also stated that he knows which medications work, however only i can decide which medications work best for me. hes not the type to just prescribe someone anything they want but only because he is looking out for their safety. but he's also considerate to the point where he will let me try many different medications at safe doses.


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## boooradley

nope, dont know anyone named butterz. only recall the name from the cartoon southpark.


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## toolband185

mr t said:


> Here is the link to pdf file i uploaded:
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/105365962
> 
> I think this is one of the better ive found online and is far more than the original MAOI diet lists. I dont agree completely with this list but it is more reasonable than most others. I will list my disagreements below.
> 
> **A few of my own notes on this list**:
> 
> I've found these "prohibited" foods OK to eat:
> Cheeses: cheddar, provolone, parmensan
> Soy sauce
> Caffeine
> Chocolate
> whey protein powder


Hey mr t I had a Nardil question for you. I'm currently on my 5th day and on 30mg. I have ready your sticky thread and you said to increase 15mg every week until 60mg is reached. I was wondering if you experienced increase anxiety starting and also if you still are doing well taking it. God bless you and thank you


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## voodoochild16

What about foods prior to takeing any MAOI?, is there any risks there?


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## UltraShy

I have not had to change my diet at all for Parnate nor Nardil.

And keep in mind that, as far as I know, I consumed higher doses of these drugs than anybody else on SAS.

My prescribed dose of Parnate was 120 mg, though I went as high as 200 mg, which is a literal fistful of pills. I'm now on 90 mg of Nardil.

The dietary restrictions are grossly exaggerated, typically by doctors who don't know a damn thing about MAOIs, which would be damn near every MD.

Can you eat cheddar? Sure can. I pigged out on block of extra sharp cheddar the other day, eating about 6 ounces in one sitting.

I take 200 mg caffeine pills as needed. They worry about the trace amounts of caffeine in chocolate. Hell, you'd need to eat Hershy bars by the crate to rival the amount in a caffeine pill.

I can't eat rotten banana peels, but then even my pet rats won't eat a (fresh) banana peel -- despite their absolute love of bananas. I can't imagine anyone is eating rotten banana peels, being less discriminating than a rodent that's basically a garbage disposal with fur & a tail.

I know I definitely can't have fava beens. I have no clue what a fava bean even is. Do you?

I can't drink tap beer, though I could go to Discount Liquor which offers a stunning selection of over 1,000 beers from around the world -- and I could drink anything in a can or bottle. I don't care for beer, though this strikes me as sufficient to satisfy even the most avid beer lover.

I definitely can't eat blue cheese, but then I never wanted to eat moldy cheese to start with.

I can assure you that wine -- both white & red is fine -- as I regularly consume both.

The dietary restrictions are grossly exaggerating, either being things that you actually can eat, or things you probably never wanted to eat in the first place.

Please don't worry about the dietary restricts or let them stop you from trying an MAOI as there are so few foods you truly need to avoid.


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## UltraShy

voodoochild16 said:


> What about foods prior to takeing any MAOI?, is there any risks there?


No, these foods are out of your body long before an MAOI can take effect. Also. it's truly short list things can't eat. It's a list I list of items I've never wanted to eat: banana peels, blue cheese that's just plain gross, and fava beans which I've asked and only lady even knew what they were.

Caffeine is just one of the more popular myths. I regularly take 200mg caffeine pills which have never produced any adverse effect for me. as for me. I take caffeine pills because I hate coffee.



> I got my free Nuvigil sample (30 of the 250mg pills).


I can't tell any between Provigil & Nuvigiil.

Three MDs, two being pdocs, fully agree with my taking 400mg of Provigil. My GP is an oddity in that he has a passion for mental health, so he can make an informed decision on whether this is safe as well and he thinks it's a fine idea too.


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## sighsigh

Just FYI, Ken Gillman's full diet list seems to be available to the public here. http://biopsychiatry.com/maois_diet_full_v2.1.pdf


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## InFlames

I haven't even looked at or followed the diet in years. The diet is always changing and I have eaten everything on it in huge quantities and nothing has ever happened. I only would check it again if I was on a dose of 60mg or higher and had a lighter body weight.


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## watertouch

Thanks to Dr. Ken Gillman!!!... His new and updated dietlist & drug interaction is avaible at his homepage...
www.psychotropical.com

And heres a link straight to the 2016 PDF from his website.
http://www.psychotropical.com/images/Publications-pdfs/MAOI_diet_drug_interactions_2016.pdf


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## sighsigh

watertouch said:


> Thanks to Dr. Ken Gillman!!!... His new and updated dietlist & drug interaction is avaible at his homepage...
> www.psychotropical.com
> 
> And heres a link straight to the 2016 PDF from his website.
> http://www.psychotropical.com/images/Publications-pdfs/MAOI_diet_drug_interactions_2016.pdf


That's great! Thanks for posting this updated document.


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## djr91485

watertouch said:


> Thanks to Dr. Ken Gillman!!!... His new and updated dietlist & drug interaction is avaible at his homepage...
> www.psychotropical.com
> 
> And heres a link straight to the 2016 PDF from his website.
> http://www.psychotropical.com/images/Publications-pdfs/MAOI_diet_drug_interactions_2016.pdf


Thanks for the post. I see that you too are a fan of Dr. Stahl. For those who don't know of him, he's written many textbooks and has lots of information online. A lot of it's not free but there are also a lot of other articles that cite his work that are free. Here's one on MAOIs that is public:

http://onlinedigeditions.com/displa...igeditions.com/display_article.php?id=1047055

If you do have the money, his book Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology has been a great resource to me. I bought the kindle version about a year ago right before I started taking Parnate because it had actually current information about the dietary and drug interactions. For instance, for me, someone whose anxiety and depression results in hardly being able to get out of bed, finding out that I could continue to take Adderall and that actually a lot of people have responded quite well to a stimulant with an MAOI was a huge help. I bought an at home wrist blood pressure monitor just to be sure but never had a rise in blood pressure from the combination and it helped with the orthostatic hypotension and headaches while on Parnate alone. He has 2 great charts that list what foods and meds you actually need to worry about. I'll try to find a free link or otherwise summarize it when I get a chance. Right now Amazon says the kindle version is $53 if interested.


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## watertouch

^ Yeah i went abit overboard, ive read the 3rd Ed online so i bought the Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology 4th ed... Read it 2times and selected parts some more...

Met Dr Jackass... I informed him that i just read Stahl's new book...
Anyway i started laughing at him, telling him that he was wrong and asking if he wanted me to explaine how it works!!!

His revenge was to not refill my Benzo scripts!!!

(i get irretaded n aggressive when i get anxiety)


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## ameris

how the **** is this updated if its from 2012.


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## jackbeam

I've learned a lot by reading this forum and other sources on the MAOI diet as I've started following it, so I thought I'd add a running list of some of the forbidden or grey area items that I've successfully eaten - and update whenever possible. I've been careful to take my blood pressure after eating these items. I don't see brand names listed in most places so I'll include those too.

Cheese
American (2 slices Kraft Deluxe: contains cheddar)
Shredded mozzarella (1 cup Trader Joe's lite)

Sushi
Tuna roll, salmon roll, lobster roll

Soy sauce
Kikkoman (1 tbsp)

Pizza
Dominoes (3 pieces hand tossed: chicken, mushrooms, onions)

Drinks
Coffee (3 cups daily)
Tea (2 cups daily herbal, black, green)
Beer (3 bottles: Miller Lite)


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## jackbeam

Updated, because I cannot yet edit posts:

Cheese
American (2 slices Kraft Deluxe: contains cheddar)
Shredded mozzarella (1 cup Trader Joe's lite)
Laughing Cow (1 wedge original)

Sushi
Tuna roll, salmon roll, lobster roll

Soy sauce
Kikkoman (1 tbsp)

Pizza
Dominoes (3 pieces hand tossed: chicken, mushrooms, onions)

Drinks
Coffee (3 cups daily)
Tea (2 cups daily herbal, black, green)
Beer (3 bottles: Miller Lite)

Medication and other
Propanolol (10 mg)
Phenibut (3 grams)


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