# Has anyone else never had any friends?



## saucemoe

Am I the only person with absolutely no friends, acquaintances or even online friends? I never had any, ever. Literally the only thing I had to talk to are my cats and my mom just gave them all away. I want friends but I just can't for the life of me talk to people so I'm mute all the time. Even if I did have friends it would be exhausting to talk and come up with what to say. I'm a real loner amongst loners.


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## weedophile

ill be ur friend


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## Ape in space

I have had a few friends before, but not currently. I've gone the majority of my life without any friends. I'm not sure what advice to give, since even the friends I have had before have all approached me first and were outgoing. It's been especially hard the last 6 or 7 years, because no one has tried to get to know me in that time and therefore I haven't had friends because the prospect of initiating anything just makes me freeze up in terror.


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## saucemoe

I want human friends but at the same time I don't. But as a human I just have this annoying feeling of loneliness. I feel like I was meant to be a more solitary animal, which is probably why I relate so much to cats and other felines. When my mom gave away my cats I cried and felt like how normal people feel when they lose loved ones. My cats were my only friends. What's worse is that she just dumped them in the streets so they're probably going to struggle in the mean streets as strays. I didn't even have a chance to say goodbye.


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## daniel1989

I haven't had any real friends since i was a kid, around 14 just loads of aquintances.


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## FallenofTrack

I really don't have any friends, either. I used to have a small social circle in middle school and a few people when I was in high school, but for the most part, I've been a loner. I'm a natural loner and introverted, but there are times when I do want to connect with other people and at least form a few long lasting friendships. I met one person at work several months ago, and she and I got along really well, actually calling each other, outside of work. But she quit that job a couple of weeks ago, and I'm not sure if she and I will keep in touch. I talked to her about hanging out recently, and she never called me to make definite plans even though she seemed interested in doing something together, so who knows how long she and I will keep in touch.
As far as online friends, I've managed to meet a couple of people on a social/chat site (it's really mostly a chat service though)recently, and one of the people I chatted with, I will probably keep in touch with on messenger.


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## ForeverInBloom

Hey just be yourself. 

Some people will accept you for who you are. I'm also considered a loner. One time my teacher pointed that out 'cause I was the only one without a partner and the girl I was with soon left me to be with this other girl that had recently arrived who was her friend. "Oh a loner" she said. I know she didn't mean anything by it but when i heard that I felt bad and thought about it constantly, but I got over it. People who respect and admire you will consider you their friend. 

There's one guy I know who really is my friend because he knows I don't really talk much yet he respects that and understands. When he refers to me as my friend and stuff like that I literary feel like crying because I usually feel alone but know that I'm not (God/faith makes me realize this).


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## Debbiexoxoxo

Whenever Ive had a friendship start ,I always end up blowing it., I think I have a problem accepting acceptance. I push people away before they get their feelings hurt.


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## crystaltears

*depressed*

I feel exactly the same way... My favourite pet cat ran away 10 years ago :cry and the only "friends" I've ever had were from elementary school but they all moved away to a different school by the end of the year :sigh I tried chatting with them on MSN but they hardly talk to me anymore.
A few people might talk to me sometimes but no one really cares about me.


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## pinkcupcake

I will be your friend. yeah, most of my friends are outgoing types and that's how we became friends.


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## staringatthesky

Hi there! if you want an online friend respond to the post. I'll be your friend


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## Mae West

Hello. I have a few friends now, but my track record isn't so great. I was pretty depressed in college and high school so I wasn't able to keep many friends. I'm not depressed at all anymore but when I finished college and started working I realized my social skills were totally lacking. I am still trying to improve my skills and trying to develop a group of friends. Every day is a struggle but I really think I am improving. I used to be so bad that a phone call or a simple conversation with someone working at a store was hell for me. Now I don't even have to think about these things. There is hope!!!


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## whocaresabouttheworld

I never had any friends in my entire life. When i was little no one wanted to play with me or talk to me because they thought I was weird. Now that I am 18 I don't have anyone to talk to. I am alone in every step that I make. I hear people saying they don't have any friends but they actually do, fake or not they do have. Not me, I never had one. I wish i had cats, my mom hates animals and she doesn't want them around the house. I know how you feel, sometimes sitting alone at lunch I'm about to cry because I feel everyone hates me. Everyone has friends and boy/girlfriend and I'm just there like a mummy, and others look at me weird, and most of the time I go to the girls bathrooms and stay there so no one can look at me and laugh at me. I tell myself I shouldn't care about anyone because nobody cares about me. You're not alone, I'm the same;(. (sorry,I wrote a lot. I'm new to this site that's why. Feels good to know I'm not alone. Maybe we can be friends


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## FallingWind

unpleasant, can't talk normally amongst other people, never shared my thoughts, introvert, bad communication skill -- never had any friends -- weirdest person ever :frown2:


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## myself0500

I have 0 friends yes I mean 0 friends . I used to have a few friends but never like a best friend or something . The few friends I did have stopped talking to me in High School and acted like I didnt exist they pretty much ignored me . I had a few online gaming friends but they started to get real lives and they basically left me too . Now I mainly play video games alone online . At least I have online gaming because it makes me feel a little less lonely . I do not have any online gaming friends anymore either . I play online by myself and I talk to no one . But it does make me feel less lonely when I am playing video games with other actual people online even if I dont talk at all .


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## NoCombovers

Have you ever examined the matter or even asked yourself if you do actually need friends, etc?

There is a widespread myth in society that every person is or must be social, or that being social is "normal".
This is a deducement that is often made from an even more ubiquitous expression of "humans are social".
But these are only ideas that suit some people and there is great variation even in those who desire social interaction as to how they are social and with whom, how often and other elements.

But it is greatly overstated and believed what other people can bring a person and this is often accepted without question and without any evidence.

Its not anyone's fault though because pretty much everyone is conditioned, from an early age, to believe that we need to have people around us in some form and most people have some form of family that they experience from birth. Thus, it is often not questioned by people whether having people around them actually suits them or not and since most people do not examine this aspect of their lives and just assume it to be true, those who it does not suit often suffer when they are around other people or when they enter into social situations, without knowing why.

Other people mostly bring distraction, novelty and moments of pleasure. Anything else that someone believes someone else brings them is likely to have been created in their mind. And since the mind cannot distinguish between what is real and what is not, someone can get the same kind of experience when they have someone in their life, and all that comes with that and believe the other person is causing/creating it.

Each person, especially those on this forum, would be well advised to not accept what other people do and to discover what they need in order to meet their own _true_ needs, because it is _their_ life and not anyone else's.


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## myself0500

NoCombovers said:


> Have you ever examined the matter or even asked yourself if you do actually need friends, etc?


I think that is a good point you can live happy without friends . Everybody is different but for me I am learning to accept who I am and what I have always been .


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## decepme

No real friends here. Known people for years but don't call them friends. My wife says her friends are my friends but she also says they think I'm stuck up. I can't stand two faced people, and hate being social. I feel like I'm saying something stupid or I think later I shouldn't have said that. My speech is sketchy when I talk to others and I swallow like I'm gulping because I get caught up on the way I'm talking to begin with. It just makes me feel stupid. Always second guessing myself. My problem isn't that I haven't been exposed or had the opportunity, the anxiety is too great. I just don't like being social or around others, therefor no friends.


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## NoCombovers

humidity said:


> I wish this worked for me. I also wish I didn't need any people in my life to give me a sense of meaning. I see a friend once every 3 months or so, and I talk to 2 friends online, but I still feel empty from insufficient friend socialization. I spend my day doing my hobbies, but I still feel like my life is meaningless without close friends or girlfriend. I feel like I'm wasting my life this way, and not really living. The problem is, it's hard to find friends to connect with.


The reason you and many others cannot find meaning is because there is no meaning to be found. This is just a human concept, an invented idea foisted onto and into people because we seem incapable of just accepting life as we find it, the way all other living organisms do.

Here are some more things that do not exist, that we do not need and which levy an unnecessary burden on the mind. They are also all a source of suffering.

Adornment, augmentation, associations, definition, improvement, purpose, beliefs, believing, ideas, concepts, opinions, imagination, fantasy, making and taking sides, classification, categorization, attachment, identity, badges, labels, comparison, judgments, slogans, causes, validation, approval, goals, aims, plans, paths, achievement, completing, fixing and curing.

We are all fine, just being.


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## bintuae

I always had one.


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## Imaginos

deleted


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## NoCombovers

humidity said:


> How does one not go crazy from boredom when applying these things? That's what happens to me when I go through asocial periods, which ends up leading to depression.


SA, depression and other mind only states are all rooted in the same cause - belief in thoughts which are not true.

Boredom often comes from expectations that its the job of "something out there" to stimulate me, keep my mind busy and perhaps, make me happy. Boredom can also come from the idea that "I must always be doing something", possibly along with the additional idea of "if I am not, I am wasting time/my life".
And why do we want to have our minds kept busy? Often its to avoid facing the thoughts that we have and which we don't want to face.

But instead of trying to escape your thoughts with distractions, you can face them and then you can discover which thoughts are causing you to feel as you are. Once you see that the thoughts which cause you to suffer are not actually true, or real, your disbelieving them will delete them.


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## Glycerin

I don't have friends and never really had any. I don't need friends. Although it'd be nice to have someone to talk to online from time to time.


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## One Armed Scissor

One can get by in a civilized society without so-called friends. There's been plenty of times when I had no friends, it was kind of a relief actually. True friendship is largely a myth anyway. 
See also:
the songs 
"Positively 4th Street" by Bob Dylan
and
"I Am A Rock" by Paul Simon.


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## NoCombovers

humidity said:


> Where did you learn these things? I wanna look more into it.


I read various things online about why we suffer, watched videos by Noah Elkrief, Alan Watts, Adyashanti, Leo from actualized.org and did a lot of my own thinking. Stuff about Buddha was also useful/interesting. The Brain is a series shown on PBS, now available on DVD, by David Eagleman and which I found very interesting.

Here are some other resources I found useful.









http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/why-anti-authoritarians-are-diagnosed-as-mentally-ill/
http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com/PatBracken.htm















humidity said:


> All the things you described make me kinda feel like I'm in a meditative state where I feel nothing... no negative feelings, but no positive ones either.
> 
> Do you feel any positive emotions or joys while adopting these strategies? What is there left to enjoy in life?


I do not really use the term positive anymore because its a binary idea and way of thinking and if you decide to believe in the concept of positive, you will always be susceptible to its opposite too - you can't have one without the other. But why do you think you need to have either one, or that these are the only possibilities?
A calm/peaceful continuous state is also an option and a happy, calm and peaceful state is what we all ultimately desire, no matter what means we use to get it. Its the end result of why everyone does what they do (or what they think they will get if they do/get X Y Z).

Yes, I absolutely do have joy in my life, for the first time in a very long time. Fun is now also part of my life experience too but which was an alien thing before. I am free to respond to things as they come but I am not dependent on these "spikes of pleasure" to get a sense of "being alive" or that "this is what we have to have in life to be happy". They are like icing on an already lovely cake.

Furthermore, it may seem hard to live without or outside those things that I listed before (things which do not really exist, which nobody actually needs and which all cause/lead to suffering) but this is just more conditioning and this conditioning is reinforced constantly and ceaselessly by the compliance of 99%+ of the population who choose to participate in these things, as if they were real, needed and that they bring them anything of value.

I cannot be sure what you are actually experiencing when you say meditative state. I have not looked seriously into meditation but from what I have read about it, it seems to be about calming the mind from the many thoughts that race around it continuously. So "nothing" could really be everything.


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## scribe

FallingWind said:


> unpleasant, can't talk normally amongst other people, never shared my thoughts, introvert, bad communication skill -- never had any friends -- weirdest person ever :frown2:


This pretty much describes me perfectly.


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## LegendaryINTP

For a day or two in school till they figured out I was quiet then they went to the main social group in elementary school and one of the different groups in middle and high school.


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## lots

I never had friends not even as a kid. I grew up not talking to anyone (except for my mum)and was 100% solitary. It sucked when i was in my early teens. I am the same now except I don't care and don't want any. I like the way I am.


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## cybernaut

No. I'm not going to write my life story on here,but as of now I don't care for friends. I've personally experienced how judgmental could be in life (and online) way too many times.

I can only recall one time where I made an actual friend,which was during my 4-month travel experience to Asia at the age of 23.We actual did sh%t together during our free time.But, now I'm back in the States and far far away from him.I only text him 1-2 times a week,but it's not the same at times.


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## jennyyyxo

I've had some really great friends in my life, but I feel like it's been so long since I've had one :frown2:


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## NoCombovers

humidity said:


> Since you researched all this thoroughly, do you think this strategy is based on nihilistic philosophy? No good or bad, right or wrong, nothing has meaning. I think I remember Noah saying all that's left is individual's preferences, I like chocolate you like vanilla.


Firstly, I would not recommend subscribing to or embracing any labels of anything that does not exist in reality. Doing so fixes or frames your mind and your thoughts and can trap you and limit you. This goes for all ideas, concepts, beliefs and anything else that exists only in the mind.
You will find far more peace and calmness without engaging in these things and you do not need these things in any case.

Its not that nothing has any meaning/purpose, its that meaning/purpose do not exist as real things, so their application to anything is baseless. Meaning/purpose are only made into real things because people want them to be so, that is all.

If "X" is not part of the facts/reality, then "X" does not exist. "X" exists therefore only in the mind of one or more people and not in reality. Furthermore, "X" only exists in the mind when a person thinks about "X" and does not exist otherwise.

I think this is the same mechanism that is involved when a person ends their suffering, which they can do by realizing all the untrue things that they have been keeping alive in their mind. Once they see that these things are not true, the things vanish instantly because there is no longer anything to sustain them.

Beyond our biological needs, everything else is optional and largely controlled by opinion. But because of the poor to non-existent education for the general population, it seems most people do not really understand this, nor understand that all opinions, including our own, have no value at all and that all opinions really don't mean anything at all, whatever the opinion and whoever utters them.
The only reason some opinions have value or have meaning is because people have *chosen* to give them value and meaning by believing in them. This is what makes them seem powerful and what sustains them (e.g. religion, politics)

Opinions are never facts or real things and they can change or evaporate instantly, like all other things that exist in the mind only.

So yes, preference, likes, etc., are what determines some of the differences we see in the human world. Only we don't see the full magnitude of preferences and likes that actually exist because the vast majority of them are being suppressed by, I guess, 95%+ of the population, who are living (or trying to live) much of their lives in the way they think they have to or that they observe other people doing so, and who comply with the limits and traps setup for them.


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## Vomitchan

Lost all my friends at 12 years old, never got any new ones. I'm 23. I've pretty much given up.


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## Mountainhorse

I've never had real life friends, I've had a few online friends. One of whom I trusted for over 10 years and that turned out to be a disaster when I met them finally.


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## eukz

Has OP got any friend after all these years?


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## n1988

I don't think I've had any real ones since I was 10. Lost touch with a next-door girl I had a crush on in middle school and never regained it. I've exchanged pleasantries with people but I've rarely gotten the sense they were actually interested in getting to know me.


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## Anxninja

I'll try to type this without crying.
I'm so sorry for you, but I haven't had any friend either. Just know, that you're not the only one. Um as a kid, I was very emotional, I cried at the littlest things, and I had three bully cum friends, and while I'd really like girl friends to go out with, or even cousins to hang out with (I'm the youngest), I had no one. When I look back on my past, its a blur of a sad quiet kid. All I have is a dog, she's very old now, I love her the most. At 13 we moved to another city. And the new school was weird, I got even lonelier, quieter. People thought I was naive, prude, nerd, they called me all sorts of things. This was the same for 2 years, until I had 3 people (we called each other friends) cus we had no one except each other and a label "nerds". I wasn't even good at math, science, I put in everything into studies to be the top in class to at least be loved by parents? Be liked by teachers? I craved? I was too scared someone would know I wanted it. Discovering my sexuality another thing, feeling suicidal one more. Of course this is a rant, cus I have no where to let this out and tonight I've gathered courage to not let it out on my arms or anywhere. And then, people asking why are you so depressed? I had no replies.I have no memory to look back on and feel happy about. I feel terrible about the way I look. I feel disgusting for not being a good son. Now I'm in college, at the start, I made a friend who left the college in 40 days. I was again lonely, all I talked to was an online friend (she's the best person I've met in my life, and the reason I'm alive too) People still enter my life and leave in the shortest time, everyone does think I'm sweet, they think I'm great at studies (I hate what I'm studying), a wallflower they say, but the perks of being a wallflower? They're none. I'm too scared now to let anyone in, cus I'm scared they'll leave. But then I'm also scared, all this time will go someday, and I'll look back and have nothing to be happy about. I might've just exaggerated all the sad part here. I just, read now, some days are good, today isn't, I observe people, I'm happy that they're happy. I just want anyone who needs someone to listen to, to not worry if we're friends or not, I will be there for them, because they're human, they feel. And I'll be happy in that. And then, I look at myself and say, hey you're so strong, you've lived through all that. But I'm lame too, this rant does sound lame.So just stay strong I guess, life is worth living for those few days I guess.


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## JohnDoe26

I had friends up to the point where I hit puberty - around 12 years old. Then it became clear that nobody really liked me and I didn't fit in.


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## vvacarello

Anxninja said:


> I just want anyone who needs someone to listen to, to not worry if we're friends or not, I will be there for them, because they're human, they feel. And I'll be happy in that. And then, I look at myself and say, hey you're so strong, you've lived through all that. But I'm lame too, this rant does sound lame.So just stay strong I guess, life is worth living for those few days I guess.


The last part doesn't sound lame at all. The friend label is thrown around all the time, but to actually be there for someone is much more important than calling them a friend in the lightweight sense that many people use. I think you nailed it.


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## Tennman75

I don't have many friends and have had a couple of best friends during my life but they have always left for some reason or another. 


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## InfamousD

Losing close friends because of our afflictions really opens up the mind and allows us to see the world from a new perspective. Those strong bonds we thought we had with another human being turned out to be not so strong after all. I don't blame my friends for leaving me, I would also leave me given the state I was in. What really hurt was how soon they left. I thought they would at least try to understand my situation, but all they did was become insulted and offended by my behavior towards them, like I was being that way on purpose or something. Every time I put myself through hell to fully recover and become normal I can't help but wonder, is it worth it? If I do end up making friends again and if someday I relapse into that ****ty state I was once in, exactly how long before these so called friends leave me? I don't think I can go through that again.


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## PrincessV

InfamousD said:


> Losing close friends because of our afflictions really opens up the mind and allows us to see the world from a new perspective. Those strong bonds we thought we had with another human being turned out to be not so strong after all. I don't blame my friends for leaving me, I would also leave me given the state I was in. What really hurt was how soon they left. I thought they would at least try to understand my situation, but all they did was become insulted and offended by my behavior towards them, like I was being that way on purpose or something. Every time I put myself through hell to fully recover and become normal I can't help but wonder, is it worth it? If I do end up making friends again and if someday I relapse into that ****ty state I was once in, exactly how long before these so called friends leave me? I don't think I can go through that again.


I totally understand what you mean. I've learned that the only person you can really depend on is yourself. That sounds depressing but I really don't feel that people are reliable and maybe it's not anybodies fault, because why would they want to stick around someone who's not benefiting them anymore? Perhaps we're all responsible for our own well being, but it would be nice to know that there _was _someone you could depend on and would try to understand what you're going through.


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## That Random Guy

*Hm...*

No!

Please, believe me, you are *not* the only one.

I have never really had _real_ friends in all my life.

I've had acquaintances whom I may or may not have "fit in" with, but I never connected with anyone on a deep level and it's all been to due to my SA.

That was a long time ago, and it never really happened again after that. High school was a bad time for me, social-wise.

I think it requires a lot of effort, but I also think it's something we should pursue.

Eventually, we'll find people who we can confide in, and I think that's nice.

Best be to ya,

T.R.G.


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## gumballhead

I always had 2 or 3 every year throughout school. Last spoke to one of them in 2012. I consider my coworkers friends, but it's really not the same. I have a couple online, but also not the same as having people my own age to hang out with.


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## Iconclast

saucemoe said:


> Am I the only person with absolutely no friends, acquaintances or even online friends? I never had any, ever. Literally the only thing I had to talk to are my cats and my mom just gave them all away. I want friends but I just can't for the life of me talk to people so I'm mute all the time. Even if I did have friends it would be exhausting to talk and come up with what to say. I'm a real loner amongst loners.


Hey dude you have skype? Il be your friend. I don't have much friends as well. You have depression and anxiety?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sad1231234

Aquaintances and online friends, yes. Actual real friends, never. Not even 1 :/


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## nightfly

nope, not irl anyway. i've actually never "hung out" or done stuff with people my own age outside of school. my parents are somewhat amazed that i'm content with life without friends, but you know, it's not like i know what i'm missing lol


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## In The Shade

Yes but I didn't manage to get people to stick around for too long.

Im quiet and have no social status so naturally people wouldn't wanna be around me for very long which is understandable.


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## Tsuba11

I've recovered quite as bit from the paralysis that underlines social anxiety, but I still have the mute-issue you speak of, OP. 

At the beginning of a night out I am half interested in engaging in social interaction, but then as the night begins to linger on (normally after an hour or two into the night) it's like I literally just forget how to communicate, and that's when things get ugly (and not to mention, awkward...) It's one thing to be quiet in a room, but 'silent' for hours on end, that's a little much! I've never figured out how to overcome this, but recognize it as a symptom of social anxiety that I just gotta live with; at least, until I can figure out some sort of way to strength my social skills in group settings. 

For this reason, I can relate with the 'being a loner of loners' bit. It's frustrating living this way, but at the same time, half the condition is 'caring' too much about the issue. The moment I learned not to care about it, the easier it was to cope with it. But sadly that also doesn't take away the problem.


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## CalvinCandie2

Never had friends that I hung out with on a daily/weekly basis. 

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## duckthesystem

Stay strong soldier!


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## teopap

nightfly said:


> nope, not irl anyway. i've actually never "hung out" or done stuff with people my own age outside of school. my parents are somewhat amazed that i'm content with life without friends, but you know, it's not like i know what i'm missing lol


My parents are amazed too, especially my sister which is an extrovert social monster and she's 19. She keeps asking me how I prefer being alone and sit at home 24/7 and I am ok without having even one friend irl or online. When she invites me to hang out with her I refuse, I don't like being around people. I used to hang out when I had friends in the past, now I have none. But hanging out with severe social anxiety ? You don't miss much, unless you like torturing yourself with anxiety. I couldn't bear it. I came to a point that I was drinking alcohol like crazy in order to act normaly and maintain my friendship. One day I just pushed everyone away, because what's the point ending up an alcoholic or addict ? Plus that I am schizoid and I don't particularly enjoy the company of other people.


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## bluecrime

I've had maybe two proper friends in my life. Both girls. Both long gone from my life. I don't seem to get on with guys so much. The again there are lots of girls I just can't stand either.


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## Dreaming1111

Had to double check to make sure I hadn't posted on this topic yet. :lol I've had friends but as time went they all have gone by the wayside. I don't really know how to be a good friend so it's no surprise. Going out socializing is tough with no friends so I remain alone mostly.


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## james77A

I have struggled with friendships all my life... and be thankful OP that you've never ended up in the situation I was in...

Back in 2013 I was friends with a group of 20 somethings from my work. We went out for nights out, days shopping, at the cinema, eating etc. I had to try really hard and open myself up, talking has always been difficult for me due to bullying I suffered at school. I was friend's with these two lassies and a guy -we got on so well, all four of us despite being really different actually clicked - it was amazing to have friends, text and go out!

But as time wore on I started to get bored and fed up with them... It's like they couldn't measure upto the high standards I had for them... I was actually really horrible to them in the end... due in part to my gender confusion, at the time. My head was messed up and really being friends with them set me back years, like I went back to how I was when I was 8 years old and playing with the lassies cos boys were mean and bullied me. I have issues I know...

Anyway the last message I got from one of them said "Hey, how's things :smile2:" - but I just ignored her and thought " don't need you anymore..."

She was a trouble maker, cheated on her bf - the guy I was friends with also and just became a really nasty, *****y girl in general. At our Xmas party everyone told him to dump her... she was draining the life out of all three of us with her diva attitude, we had completely changed. I had previously told him not to rush into sleeping with her... and she was texting our other friend asking "why isn't he gonna have sex with me?" In the end he booked a hotel, she dumped him & the managers spread the news like wildfire... those ****ing gossip queens!! >

I was genuinely just looking out for the guy and he blamed me. She had umpteen numbers in her phone and endless texts from other guys asking for it... at the end of the day I should have told him but it made everyone hate me and so yeah I left that workplace...

Friendships? overrated!

I also got in touch with old friends during that time, ****ing mistake! it was just a never ending cycle of depression... Oh and I'm pretty sure an ex female friend lied about having a miscarriage... disgusting cow! :frown2: To think I sat and cried about her problems for ages when they probably weren't even real in the first place!


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## discoveryother

i've found making friends quite hard. i had some in high school. i have friends from meetup. i have an ex who lives far away who is a good friend. of course i lost many friends too.

a lot of people here go to all kinds of lengths to say they don't have "real" friends. only online/distant friends = "i have no friends". don't see them that often = "i have no friends". have friends, but still feel lonely = "i have no friends". you don't need to go out of your way to say you're an unlikable monster, you're just reinforcing your bad feelings deliberately. i've done that a lot myself. but the truth is that i do have some friends, and i have had quite a few throughout my life.

i hope that all of us can make some new friends and be happy


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## Iconclast

JohnDoe26 said:


> I had friends up to the point where I hit puberty - around 12 years old. Then it became clear that nobody really liked me and I didn't fit in.


Same here

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rmb1990

humidity said:


> I wish this worked for me. I also wish I didn't need any people in my life to give me a sense of meaning. I see a friend once every 3 months or so, and I talk to 2 friends online, but I still feel empty from insufficient friend socialization. I spend my day doing my hobbies, but I still feel like my life is meaningless without close friends or girlfriend. I feel like I'm wasting my life this way, and not really living. The problem is, it's hard to find friends to connect with.


I'm exactly the same.


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## Dipsy

rmb1990 said:


> I'm exactly the same.


I always wanted a girlfriend (still do). I feel like I'm empty without a girlfriend, I feel like a gf would fix things. But the thing is, it won't really. Multiple people have said this, I don't exactly believe them, but on the other hand I do. I mean, I have some friends, some good ones too, but I still feel empty sometimes: 'Why don't I have more friends? I want more good friends'.
The problem with me (and probably most people) is that once I get what I want, I still feel kinda empty, so I must need more of them, right? Not exactly. The problem with emptiness has to be fixed from the inside, not from the outside (friends/gf/etc.). I think you just have to love who you are, be proud of who you are/what you've done. Once you're happy/fulfilled from the inside, others can _see_ that you're an amazing human being, you'll almost automatically attract friends without thinking of it.

_"Don't waste time chasing butterflies, mend your garden and the butterflies will come." - Unknown_

I hope this made any sense and hopefully it helps you in some sort of way


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## rmb1990

Dipsy said:


> I always wanted a girlfriend (still do). I feel like I'm empty without a girlfriend, I feel like a gf would fix things. But the thing is, it won't really. Multiple people have said this, I don't exactly believe them, but on the other hand I do. I mean, I have some friends, some good ones too, but I still feel empty sometimes: 'Why don't I have more friends? I want more good friends'.
> The problem with me (and probably most people) is that once I get what I want, I still feel kinda empty, so I must need more of them, right? Not exactly. The problem with emptiness has to be fixed from the inside, not from the outside (friends/gf/etc.). I think you just have to love who you are, be proud of who you are/what you've done. Once you're happy/fulfilled from the inside, others can _see_ that you're an amazing human being, you'll almost automatically attract friends without thinking of it.
> 
> _"Don't waste time chasing butterflies, mend your garden and the butterflies will come." - Unknown_
> 
> I hope this made any sense and hopefully it helps you in some sort of way


You've made a great point. Thanks.


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## Honora Fuego

I lost my best friend after middle school , but I guess it was my fault cuz I didn't contact her all summer. At that point I knew I had social anxiety. High school was terrile and lonely. Haha I still ave 0 friends. But whatever life is strange and cruel and unfair.


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## Farideh

I'd rather not have friends than have bad friends. I had friends in high school. Bad ones. One day they treated me like I'm important to them and the next day, they treated me like I didn't belong in their group. Dealing with people who treat others this way is a nuisance and I'm glad I don't have anyone I can call as a friend. That's how loyal I was when people ****ed me over too much.


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## trendyfool

I do have friends, but I'm constantly worried that they don't like me and that I'm saying the "wrong" things. I'm very glad that they're my friends, but that mindset of anticipating abandonment from people is tricky tricky to leave behind.


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## TakeOne

I've had one very close friend but we kind of had a "break up." Though I miss him in ways, it was also kind of a relief and I didn't really make an effort to reconnect. Tbh I still could reach out and some people have encouraged me to and I don't. 

Sometimes I have to step back and be honest with myself. Not matter how difficult it is to make friends...am I really putting in the effort to do so? I want friends, but do I really want everything that comes with it? 

My girlfriend is my best friend currently. But no matter how good your relationship is, there are things you can't discuss with your SO. Outside of that I have like one casual friend I hang out with occasionally. I know I need to make more of an effort if I want to form new friendships, but it's a battle between fighting my social anxiety/developing myself as a person someone finds interesting/and not actively avoiding the people who do show interest in me!


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## Guaccy

NoCombovers said:


> Other people mostly bring distraction, novelty and moments of pleasure.
> 
> The reason you and many others cannot find meaning is because there is no meaning to be found. This is just a human concept, an invented idea foisted onto and into people because we seem incapable of just accepting life as we find it, the way all other living organisms do.
> 
> Adornment, augmentation, associations, definition, improvement, purpose, beliefs, believing, ideas, concepts, opinions, imagination, fantasy, making and taking sides, classification, categorization, attachment, identity, badges, labels, comparison, judgments, slogans, causes, validation, approval, goals, aims, plans, paths, achievement, completing, fixing and curing.
> 
> Once you see that the thoughts which cause you to suffer are not actually true, or real, your disbelieving them will delete them.


You have interesting thoughts, I used have a quite similarly nihilistic world view but of course nihilism is not an end but a way of creating new, truer meanings by destroying the old value systems.

There are very real reasons to want to be able to navigate people, interactions with them enrich the mind and create opportunities. It would be, in fact, very difficult to get anywhere in life without interacting with people to some degree. This gives the loneliness felt by many people on this forum a very *real* significance. You cannot argue that "I don't have any friends and I need them" is just a thought, when it signals a lack that has real consequences. I doubt feelings of loneliness would simply vanish if people decided to not believe them, you have far less control over your mind than you might think.

People want to go places, do things, they have desires, aspirations, I think it's misguided to claim that you don't need meaning. In fact you couldn't live without it. You would not do anything if you didn't feel it had meaning (for instance, you get out of bed in the morning in order to not die).

Some of the things you listed as 'not real' don't make sense to me: Ideas for example. How can you possibly claim ideas are not real when they've created all of your human surroundings. Even a chair was first an idea. And before it was an idea it was a meaning, the meaning of sitting down.
Classifications are also real: They exist in the world as similarities between objects just as the meaning of those objects exist as real potentials of action.

You might think that when you're observing the world you see a landscape of undifferentiated matter, like a 'graveyard of matter', just particles, and then _decide_ to apply meaning to those masses. In fact this is not how your human mind works, you couldn't even see the world as an abstract landscape if you tried (try it). What you immediately perceive are *meanings*. The meaning of this chair is in its very shape, the meaning of that wheel is in the fact that it can roll.

This isn't maybe the place for this particular conversation but I'm curious to see what you answer :>


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## Herzeleid

I've been friendless IRL since 9th grade. It's not like I really talked much with my friends anyway, I'm the kind of person who is very quiet and only gives short answers most of the time.
Although I usually talk a lot with some friends I've made online, and some guys from my class from time to time.


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## NoCombovers

Guaccy said:


> You have interesting thoughts, I used have a quite similarly nihilistic world view but of course nihilism is not an end but a way of creating new, truer meanings by destroying the old value systems.


I do not subscribe to any label/idea/belief/thing, so your reference to nihilism is not something I know anything about.



Guaccy said:


> There are very real reasons to want to be able to navigate people, interactions with them enrich the mind and create opportunities.


It is hard to actually prove what other people bring us, but without doubt, other people cannot bring you anything of value. In addition, some people create perceived benefits from being with others, or perceive what they will get by being with others. Some of this is created by what they perceive other people apparently getting, by casual observation and/or the belief that "this is what people do", or by the thoughts in some form that they create in their mind about what being with other people will give them.



Guaccy said:


> It would be, in fact, very difficult to get anywhere in life without interacting with people to some degree.


What exactly is "get anywhere"? And interacting can be many things. You need to be more specific when you refer to these things, so we are clear what were are talking about.
You will also find that a lack of clarity is often a common component in suffering.



Guaccy said:


> This gives the loneliness felt by many people on this forum a very *real* significance. You cannot argue that "I don't have any friends and I need them" is just a thought, when it signals a lack that has real consequences.


The consequences of being alone come from a person's thoughts about being alone, not from the actual circumstances of them being alone. And the language you use here, a common problem for people especially those who suffer, can portray things in a certain way. For example, we should not use the word "unshaven", but we do and we take this to mean "someone who has not done something that they should have done". We should just refer to that state as "natural or shaven".
The same with "I have no friends" suggests you must/should have something that you do not.
And the word "lack" that you used too. It suggest "something that is missing".
But there is nothing actually missing, or lacking and that needs fixing or correcting. Its all in the conveying of opinions/ideas/beliefs, etc., woven into the fabric of our upbringing/conditioning since birth and which portrays how we should all live our lives in a particular way. And more importantly, this way is portrayed as "the right/correct/good way", when in fact all it is is "a way". 
And there is not just one way to be social either. A person can customize how they are with one or more people, with frequency, duration, number of people, type of activity, etc., all shaped to suit. The fact that many people may not do this does not mean its not possible. It might be because many people just follow what they see other people doing, rather than knowing and then meeting their own true needs.

There is nothing wrong with having friends, a spouse, kids, etc., but no-one actually needs to have these things in order to be happy and peaceful and what people actually bring you is much much less than they actually do. The belief that most people do need them is because of the lack of education of our minds (which our conditioning omits) and also, that because most people in the world suffer in some way and that many of those people have bought into the idea that other people will help to end some or all of that suffering.

Its not anyone's fault that they believe "having friends/a social life" is considered "good", "right" and "normal", for this is what almost everyone is taught and raised to believe, either directly or indirectly. Add to that, the negative social narrative and portrayal of being alone as being "bad", "wrong", "sad", "unhappy", and that "something must be wrong", along with how public perceptions of what being with people is portrayed as (just look at adverts), creates a heavily weighted idea in many people's minds in favor of "you need to be social".



Guaccy said:


> I doubt feelings of loneliness would simply vanish if people decided to not believe them, you have far less control over your mind than you might think.


Loneliness in not caused by a person being alone. And as many who are in relationships will tell you, this feeling is not taken away by being with a partner or friends. Loneliness is caused by a person's thoughts about being alone and what they believe/think it means. If a person examines the belief in the thoughts they have about being alone, they will find that there is nothing that underpin them and thus, no basis for them to hold onto the beliefs they have.

We actually can control our mind. How much I do not know, But for sure, if you are not in control of your mind, it is in the control of others, through other people's opinions, ideas/concepts, beliefs, fears, worries, fantasies, imagination, judgments, comparisons, etc etc etc., from those who have lived before as well as those who are alive now. Thus, if you are not in control of your mind, you are living other people's lives and not your own.



Guaccy said:


> People want to go places, do things, they have desires, aspirations, I think it's misguided to claim that you don't need meaning.


"Go places, do things, aspirations" are modern inventions, woven into our conditioning like so many other things are. But again, they just exist in our minds as concepts and do not exist in reality. 
We do not have education of our mind and so most people jumble up everything in life as though it is all part of their existence. They do not understand or realize that there are real things and then there are things which do not exist in reality and only exist in the mind, 
Only what you can sense with one of your five senses is part of reality. All other things exist only in our mind. And they only exist when you think about them and not at any other time.

Meaning is just such a unreal thing, an invented concept. Its simply superimposed onto something in reality, but it does not exist as part of the facts. It is whatever a person wants it to be.



Guaccy said:


> In fact you couldn't live without it. You would not do anything if you didn't feel it had meaning (for instance, you get out of bed in the morning in order to not die).


People can quite easily live (and live well) without meaning and be quite happy and peaceful, because meaning is not required for happiness or for life. Meaning is not part of nature since no other living thing requires or has meaning, purpose, or engages in ideas, concepts, opinions, etc., etc? Its simply a human invention.

And there isn't really anything to "do" in fact, beyond meeting our biological needs. All other things are optional but unnecessary. In your example of getting out of bed so as not to die (presumably from not drinking water and eating), the absence of someone not having meaning does not prevent them from getting up from their bed in the morning. A person does not require external forces or made up notions in order to get out of bed. Seeing life in this way is perhaps one reason why you might not be able to see why someone would get out of bed, without having meaning, purpose or any other made up idea in their minds as the force behind their choice.



Guaccy said:


> Some of the things you listed as 'not real' don't make sense to me: Ideas for example. How can you possibly claim ideas are not real when they've created all of your human surroundings. Even a chair was first an idea. And before it was an idea it was a meaning, the meaning of sitting down.


All ideas are not real because they do not exist when we do not think about them. In the idea for a chair example, the manifestation of this idea into the physical world does not change the chair from being an idea because it appears in the physical world. It is still just an idea. The same applies to all such examples, where we manifest an idea by shaping something in the physical world to match that idea, or when we mold our behavior and base our choices and decisions on ideas/concepts, opinions, beliefs, etc.
What we shape is still only an idea, even if we are using things which are real, like materials.

Sitting down is not a meaning. Its an opinion.



Guaccy said:


> Classifications are also real: They exist in the world as similarities between objects just as the meaning of those objects exist as real potentials of action.


Classifications are also opinions. The fact that many people chose to comply with any opinion does not change the opinions to a fact or a real thing. An opinion is still and always will be, an opinion.



Guaccy said:


> The meaning of this chair is in its very shape, the meaning of that wheel is in the fact that it can roll.


The shape of the chair is to facilitate sitting - a function. Same for the wheel. Rolling is not meaning, its a function.


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## sad1231234

A few classmates who i talked to here and there, but i never actually had a friend. Except for online friends.


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## TheAsianSensei

I was always alone in kindergarten because i never made the attempt to make friends except for waiting for someone to approach me. I did have a friendgroup starting the first day of primary school, but i was pretty shy back then so my teacher thought i had autism and often set me apart from the rest of my class so i could play with legos. 

In my second primary school i literally had no friends because 1. I was shy af 2. I was a half asian 3. I got bullied and gossiped for the rest of my time at that school about by my first friend and girlfriend in school. Eventually everyone in school decided to gossip about me or bully me (often in groups of 6 people from my class or classes of a year lower). So i decided to walk alone at school and never talk to anyone until i made a true friend during my 4th grade, that friendship didn't last long though because other people started bullying me for my race and because of the fact that i was this guy his friend. I even got ganged up on my final day of elementary school >.>

So the answer is: close to zero people


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## Guaccy

NoCombovers said:


> It is hard to actually prove what other people bring us, but without doubt, other people cannot bring you anything of value. In addition, some people create perceived benefits from being with others, or perceive what they will get by being with others. Some of this is created by what they perceive other people apparently getting, by casual observation and/or the belief that "this is what people do", or by the thoughts in some form that they create in their mind about what being with other people will give them.


As I said previously: People bring each other immense pleasure. The love coming from fully embracing another human being is one of the most powerfully satisfying experiences one can have on this planet. People can also bring about real pain, but many will agree that it's a risk worth taking. People also bring conversation (which, incidentally, is what we're engaged in... If you didn't believe in the value of conversation, then you certainly would not have posted on any forum): Conversations are a means to destroy and recreate value systems, formulate new representations of reality (thoughts) with the goal of harmonising the ways in which we live...
On a larger scale, people bring you just about everything around you, unless you're living in the jungle, on your own (which would be impossible, you would die, almost immediately). I'm also going to assume you shop for food which you haven't personally gathered, use a computer, use words other people created, have ideas other people gave you, etc..etc... you get the point.

I'm not saying _everyone_ needs people to socialise with, some very rare personalities might be able to go most of their lives without relationships (excluding an upbringing, which is really essential), however most people cannot, and even if they could (by as you say (Although I really doubt your belief in this) disbelieving people as a necessity) they will choose not to, because they desire people. Just as you might desire a hobby. (I'm assuming you do _something_ other than simply "being")



NoCombovers said:


> What exactly is "get anywhere"? And interacting can be many things. You need to be more specific when you refer to these things, so we are clear what were are talking about.
> You will also find that a lack of clarity is often a common component in suffering.


* "Get anywhere" means anything from taking a taxi, to buying food, to earning money, to succeeding at your goals (You say goals aren't real, not exactly sure what you mean by that, I understand that they are thoughts, but thoughts exist... you are having them as you read this ( In passing, you said you don't think people really need goals, but as in the last example, even getting out of bed is first a goal inside your mind, which you then put into action...)). "Interacting" with another human being is anything from having a group of friends over for some casual fun, having an engaging philosophical conversation with an other, falling in love, making love, buying coffee... It's quite broad, there's nothing to be very specific about. Yes, a lack of clarity I would say is the biggest component to suffering. *



NoCombovers said:


> The consequences of being alone come from a person's thoughts about being alone, not from the actual circumstances of them being alone.


You're wrong, people aren't imagining consequences. The consequences of being alone are real: Social isolation dramatically reduces opportunity, people desire opportunity. One of the worst things you can do to a prisoner is isolate them, people crave each other. Sure you can perhaps reach a meditative state where the desire for human interaction disappears momentarily, but you can't realistically exist as a human being in this state for very long. Why would you even want to?



NoCombovers said:


> And the language you use here, a common problem for people especially those who suffer, can portray things in a certain way. For example, we should not use the word "unshaven", but we do and we take this to mean "someone who has not done something that they should have done". We should just refer to that state as "natural or shaven".
> The same with "I have no friends" suggests you must/should have something that you do not.
> And the word "lack" that you used too. It suggest "something that is missing".
> But there is nothing actually missing, or lacking and that needs fixing or correcting. Its all in the conveying of opinions/ideas/beliefs, etc., woven into the fabric of our upbringing/conditioning since birth and which portrays how we should all live our lives in a particular way. And more importantly, this way is portrayed as "the right/correct/good way", when in fact all it is is "a way".


The language exists in this form because most of human reality (certainly desire) is the experience of a lack. Any action is initially a lack, which you imagine in your mind and then anticipate the movements that will lead to that action becoming 'complete'. A more trivial thing like being "unshaven" comes as you say, from the general idea that people shave (You could call that a statistical fact created by culture).

Every single person on this forum has a real desire for human interaction, else they wouldn't be engaged here. The existence of that desire and the value of human interaction (that I described above) is the reason being alone is perceived as a lack, and one that you should overcome. That's simply the way the vast majority of human minds work, this is not culture but biology.



NoCombovers said:


> There is nothing wrong with having friends, a spouse, kids, etc., but no-one actually needs to have these things in order to be happy and peaceful and what people actually bring you is much much less than they actually do.


There is great beauty in solitude. But it's a great waste to run away from the difficulties of socialising out of anxiety/fear, surrendering to solitude whilst by the same hand giving up the richness that socialising can add to your life. That's the reason people want to overcome their social anxiety and make friends. (Don't understand that last part)



NoCombovers said:


> The belief that most people do need them is because of the lack of education of our minds (which our conditioning omits) and also, that because most people in the world suffer in some way and that many of those people have bought into the idea that other people will help to end some or all of that suffering.


You can be social and still be lonely. This just solidifies how real loneliness is: a biological impulse to approach and intimately engage with people which most if not everyone has. I think you're wrong in saying you've been conditioned to think something as fundamental to human existence as socialising is good. You're biologically predisposed to socialise, for good reasons.



NoCombovers said:


> Its not anyone's fault that they believe "having friends/a social life" is considered "good", "right" and "normal", for this is what almost everyone is taught and raised to believe, either directly or indirectly. Add to that, the negative social narrative and portrayal of being alone as being "bad", "wrong", "sad", "unhappy", and that "something must be wrong", along with how public perceptions of what being with people is portrayed as (just look at adverts), creates a heavily weighted idea in many people's minds in favor of "you need to be social".


No one sat down to decide to teach people that this is bad and that is good. Those realisations are inborn because being alone is a lack with real consequences. Different people will require different amounts of socialising to feel satisfied, people with social anxiety want to overcome the fears to be able to meet those basic human needs.


----------



## Guaccy

NoCombovers said:


> Loneliness in not caused by a person being alone. And as many who are in relationships will tell you, this feeling is not taken away by being with a partner or friends. Loneliness is caused by a person's thoughts about being alone and what they believe/think it means. If a person examines the belief in the thoughts they have about being alone, they will find that there is nothing that underpin them and thus, no basis for them to hold onto the beliefs they have.


Being with a partner can (provided it's the right one) dramatically increase peace and happiness. I know this from my own experience and the experience of friends.



NoCombovers said:


> We actually can control our mind. How much I do not know, But for sure, if you are not in control of your mind, it is in the control of others, through other people's opinions, ideas/concepts, beliefs, fears, worries, fantasies, imagination, judgments, comparisons, etc etc etc., from those who have lived before as well as those who are alive now. Thus, if you are not in control of your mind, you are living other people's lives and not your own.


There is a great unconscious see in your mind, underneath your awareness. I would argue that people have much less control than they would like to believe. Just look at your own dreams for instance, or how quickly you react to things, or how real your fears feel and how much effect they have on the way you live. 99% of the thoughts you have are not your own, but things you've picked up from other people (Alan Watts, for instance). Although, of course, control and originality is something to strive for!



NoCombovers said:


> "Go places, do things, aspirations" are modern inventions, woven into our conditioning like so many other things are. But again, they just exist in our minds as concepts and do not exist in reality.
> We do not have education of our mind and so most people jumble up everything in life as though it is all part of their existence. They do not understand or realize that there are real things and then there are things which do not exist in reality and only exist in the mind,
> Only what you can sense with one of your five senses is part of reality. All other things exist only in our mind. And they only exist when you think about them and not at any other time.


"Doing things" is not a modern invention... You writing on this forum is a 'doing things' just as much as a monkey discovering how to make fire is a 'doing things'. Aspirations, progress, curiosity, thirst for knowledge are essential human characteristics, which exist in our minds for the purpose of manipulating reality. Things don't "just exist in our minds", they exist in our minds for real reasons, for instance, hunger exists to push me to feed myself, curiosity exists to push me to discover. You can't separate thoughts from the objective concrete world (Which no one has ever accurately measured or seen) as much as you are doing. 
On a more fundamental level, have you not realised that all of reality is only a perception in your mind, as far as you can tell? (Just to clarify, I'm not denying the existence of an objective reality) You have never even seen the "real things" you claim to have such a firm grasp of. Everything you have ever touched, seen, smelled, heard has been a representation of the world in your mind. Thoughts are further, more complex representations of those initial representations, they are no less real, only more abstract.

Also, I wouldn't say thoughts don't exist until you think them, they exist on a potential level. For instance, a memory exists before you recall it, it _has_ to, else the recall would be logically impossible.



NoCombovers said:


> Meaning is just such a unreal thing, an invented concept. Its simply superimposed onto something in reality, but it does not exist as part of the facts. It is whatever a person wants it to be.


It's ironic that you want to believe that meaning isn't real, yet here you are using words that are exactly that: meanings. (Note that words evolved naturally, they 'grew' out of the objective, into abstract representations). As far as meaning simply being what a person wants it to be: This is untrue. For instance, if you look at a human's face, you will see the meaning "this is a human's face" (the meaning can be wordless), without any decision. You'll now argue that in fact, you see an unidentified mass of matter and arranged in a certain way, and then decide "this is an eyeball", "this is a mouth" etc... But your mind doesn't operate like this, if you try to decide to get rid of all the meaning, you will find it almost impossible. You cannot NOT see a face, and if you can, the rest of your field of vision and all of the being around you will still reside in meaning. Really, try getting rid of meaning, it's _impossible_



NoCombovers said:


> People can quite easily live (and live well) without meaning and be quite happy and peaceful, because meaning is not required for happiness or for life. Meaning is not part of nature since no other living thing requires or has meaning, purpose, or engages in ideas, concepts, opinions, etc., etc? Its simply a human invention.


A human invention? What of the dog who understands his own name? Or at least, understands that the sound of his name means _something_
Secondly, if meaning is in man, meaning is part of nature, man being a part of nature.



NoCombovers said:


> And there isn't really anything to "do" in fact, beyond meeting our biological needs. All other things are optional but unnecessary. In your example of getting out of bed so as not to die (presumably from not drinking water and eating), the absence of someone not having meaning does not prevent them from getting up from their bed in the morning. A person does not require external forces or made up notions in order to get out of bed. Seeing life in this way is perhaps one reason why you might not be able to see why someone would get out of bed, without having meaning, purpose or any other made up idea in their minds as the force behind their choice.


So you would be content with eating, drinking, and defecating in an empty room for the rest of your life? Are those the only necessities? Lack of meaning is dangerous, lack of meaning leads to suicide. Even if the meaning you live for is to "be happy and peaceful", that is still as much a meaning as "fall in love, live in luxury", you've simply reduced life to more naked components.



NoCombovers said:


> All ideas are not real because they do not exist when we do not think about them. In the idea for a chair example, the manifestation of this idea into the physical world does not change the chair from being an idea because it appears in the physical world. It is still just an idea. The same applies to all such examples, where we manifest an idea by shaping something in the physical world to match that idea, or when we mold our behavior and base our choices and decisions on ideas/concepts, opinions, beliefs, etc.
> What we shape is still only an idea, even if we are using things which are real, like materials.


If you look closely, you will find that there is no such thing as an idea that is not connected to the real world. For instance, you cannot think of the word "chair" without imagining a real world object with real properties. (four legs, a seating place, etc). Words are not just words, they are auditory representations of the real world, sentences are more complex representations, ideas even more so, and so on. They represent real things and are direct results of the real things they represent. there is no such thing as an idea in a void. You can't even say that an idea doesn't exist until you think about it... that statement is absurd, things don't magically appear out of thin air. You become aware of the idea, but it exists whether you see it or not. All thoughts were born out of the objective reality, they are just as real, only more subtle, complex, and abstract.



NoCombovers said:


> Sitting down is not a meaning. Its an opinion.


An opinion? An opinion is a personal interpretation, sitting down is the meaning of an action. The action has meaning because you sit in order to rest your legs, or do something down on the ground, etc...



NoCombovers said:


> Classifications are also opinions. The fact that many people chose to comply with any opinion does not change the opinions to a fact or a real thing. An opinion is still and always will be, an opinion.


 Classifications can be opinions in the sense that they are interpretations of the world. But the similarities they describe are real similarities. For instance, you could classify a series of objects as "red objects" because the reality of the light bouncing off their surface is consistently similar. One person might think, "well this object is less red than the others..." and create a new category called "orange objects". But the classifications have their basis in fact, always. (they're justified on a particular level of complexity)

Yes, an opinion is an opinion. We can agree on that, lol.



NoCombovers said:


> The shape of the chair is to facilitate sitting - a function. Same for the wheel. Rolling is not meaning, its a function.


I didn't say rolling is meaning (Although it can be in the sense of movement), I said the meaning of a wheel is that it _can_ roll. Chair: _Something I can sit on_.

Long story short, there is always meaning. You can try, but it will be impossible to live without it. (Well, it will be impossible to even get rid of it in the first place).


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## catfish5

I have no friends since I was 13 when I realized my social anxiety and left my friends..
I had 3 friends but not real friends.


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## lackofflife

catfish5 said:


> I have no friends since I was 13 when I realized my social anxiety and left my friends..
> .


same.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Samuraisushi

I've had friends at certain points in my life, but having friends and being happy don't always go hand-to-hand. Even when I was hanging out with people, I never felt comfortable around others and always wanted to leave to be by myself. I always felt miserable when around friends and felt even more worse when I was alone.


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## naes

FallingWind said:


> unpleasant, can't talk normally amongst other people, never shared my thoughts, introvert, bad communication skill -- never had any friends -- weirdest person ever :frown2:


You look like a girl i used to work with. That's a compliment btw xD


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## malaise

FallingWind said:


> unpleasant, can't talk normally amongst other people, never shared my thoughts, introvert, bad communication skill -- never had any friends -- weirdest person ever :frown2:


That's how I feel.

The last real friends I had were in grade school. At this point I've kind of lost hope of ever making any friends, or having a genuine relationship.

There's times where I feel like an alien, like I don't belong anywhere and have no idea how to relate to human beings.


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## ljubo

malaise said:


> That's how I feel.
> 
> The last real friends I had were in grade school. At this point I've kind of lost hope of ever making any friends, or having a genuine relationship.
> 
> There's times where I feel like an alien, like I don't belong anywhere and have no idea how to relate to human beings.


where do you live? perhaps you can go to a meeting where people like you are. some sort of group for people with sa or other mental illnes or for lonely people. people can relate to you there and you will feel more save. could be a good chance to get a friend.


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## criesofsilence

I've never had any friends either. I didn't have anything in common with other kids when I was young, and my parents were controlling and overprotective. I've always felt like an alien, as other's have described here. I don't fit in with the normal people and how they live their lives. 

To be friends you need to have shared experiences and be bonded together, which takes time. After school and university there is no environment to really be able to form friendships. Those are the places which force you to be with and interact with others, allowing those bonds to form. Now people are living their own lives. How do you meet people to form close, meaningful friendships with? People who already have a lot of friends, which is basically everyone, aren't going to become your best friend who you can rely on. 

Meeting other lonely people who can relate is probably the best way. But lonely people like me don't really put themselves out there in the first places, otherwise they won't be lonely. Where are all the lonely people? How do you meet them, and is it possible to form deep meaningful relationships together?


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## CalvinCandie2

criesofsilence said:


> I've never had any friends either. I didn't have anything in common with other kids when I was young, and my parents were controlling and overprotective. I've always felt like an alien, as other's have described here. I don't fit in with the normal people and how they live their lives.
> 
> To be friends you need to have shared experiences and be bonded together, which takes time. After school and university there is no environment to really be able to form friendships. Those are the places which force you to be with and interact with others, allowing those bonds to form. Now people are living their own lives. How do you meet people to form close, meaningful friendships with? People who already have a lot of friends, which is basically everyone, aren't going to become your best friend who you can rely on.
> 
> Meeting other lonely people who can relate is probably the best way. But lonely people like me don't really put themselves out there in the first places, otherwise they won't be lonely. Where are all the lonely people? How do you meet them, and is it possible to form deep meaningful relationships together?


I've had friends, but I never felt attached to them, or really cared for them. I know that sounds cruel, but it's true. Sure we'd have fun together, but I'd rarely open up to them. I was just the kid that would hang out with them once in a while. I was never the best friend or even close friend. Unfortunately it took me a long time to realize that I've been miserable for most of my life. My misery was always masked with video games or online media like YouTube. Hopefully we can make a change, and find some fulfillment in this life.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## MaggieRose

I love you guys! I have a weird 'friendship' with a guy who's never really had friends/made friends beyond two guys he's known since he was little, 'cos he says he feels like he can't talk to people, he wants to but feels when he opens his mouth he steps into an abyss, he does not feel solid. He said he feels incapable of reaching out to people and they usually just leave him anyway, so there is no point in trying to connect. And yet he tried to connect with me, every once in a while, and so I made an effort with him despite the fact that it was like talking to a stone at first. I did not give up, I persevered, and today we are friends. Which is great! But now the next step is, getting him comfortable with going out with me. He struggles. I am seeing now that all this is quite usual/normal for SA. Hey, if you any of you need a friend, I'm pretty good with support, as I'm real patient and I stick around.


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