# called ugly a lot - CBT helpful



## NervousInDublin (Feb 19, 2010)

so ordered a couple of cbt books on the net today and have david burns feeling good and also cbt for dummies, both good books at explaining the theory. People who have depression, social anxiety and other related conditions have it from irrational thinking. 

Basis of CBT is to disprove irritional thinking, by showing the 14 common thinking errors (or is it 11, can't remember) and gradually and progressively doing the things your afraid to become more aquanted with them. Am I right? My problem with CBT is that while on a theory level it all made perfect sense putting it into practice and stopping neg and irrational thoughts was hard, it's very hard to tell yourself (and believe it) that you thinking yourself ugly is irrational when tonnes of ppl have told you are over the years. If I thought I was ugly for no particular reason then I think CBT could be good, but people havn't called me it for nothing. Feeling ugly is the root of all my SA and now related depression. 

What do you think can CBT help me?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Yes it can. If it can help me, it can help anyone.


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## Black_Widow (May 23, 2008)

I think it can too. Different people learn this kind of thing at different paces - especially seeing as how much help each individual person needs varies - so I don't think this is a sign it'll never work for you. I've had similiar problems with this type of therapy myself. But have since come to realise, after having learnt as much about how it works as I have, that I'm just one of those who needs a bit of extra guidance with it - and so am optimistic that it's very likely to work well for me in the future after I've had some more CBT sessions.

Good luck with everything!


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## NervousInDublin (Feb 19, 2010)

have you folks been called the same names? I'm wondering about this and CBT specifically. How can I change my thoughts, when other numerous people have reenforced them and continue to do so all the time? I'm a very logical person, so I see the logic in feeling ugly cus why would others call me it if it ain't through. 

above skeptisism aside, I'm going get in touch with a cbt person next week to at least enquire and hear it from the horses mouth as such.


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## Black_Widow (May 23, 2008)

It hasn't happened in recent years. But I did go through alot of bullying in high school when I was younger - and got called ugly alot. I still have alot of insecurities about the way I look even now because of those early experiences - so yup I know what that feels like!

Changing your thoughts - when you've had good reason to think the negative one's about yourself that you have been and for a long time - is definitely not a quick or easy process. It takes alot of practice and time. But it can be done! CBT introduces you to a host of techniques you can use for this. This includes things such as thought challenging, tackling deep rooted negative beliefs about yourself and others and carrying out behavioural experiments. But I think that will all make alot more sense to you once you've had the chance to speak to a mental health professional about it all. Hope all goes well with that. ;-)


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## 1applehearts1 (Jan 7, 2010)

what the heck is wrong with people saying "youre ugly" people are so stupid and shallow and wouldnt know beauty if it smacked them in the face


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

Perhaps you can approach this from thinking of it as Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD). You aren't ugly I am sure but people are perfectionistic and cruel and it has harmed your thinking.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/reprint/7/2/125.pdf

Getting books on assertiveness is a good idea. I have several, and they are all different.

Also books on ACT and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is good which is about taking action despite how you feel. In this you get the energy to act by concentrating on your values. That is effective. You would have to read of on it. Please get some books on ACT, especially if you are logical and have a strong mind, this will help you work with your fixed beliefs in a good way . Many professionals say that this is better than CBT because people cannot always get themselves to feel better with reasoning and then take action. This is what the professionals say and a lot of people eventually come over to the ACT side more. Although CBT is needed too. BT was first, behavioral therapy, back from Freud, then CBT came to work with the mind, then ACT came to mix some of the mind but mainly with action. ACT is called the third wave because it is the 3rd step in the behavioral psychologies.

You are going in the right direction. You haven't done anything wrong. You are doing everything right to help yourself. You will only get stronger and stronger now


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## NervousInDublin (Feb 19, 2010)

thanks for the replies folks. In relation to BDD, this I understand relates to an imagined ugliness so I don't think it applies to me as I have not just thought this of myself one day out of the blue. I know some girls, mostly younger ones than me think I'm cute though, they aee few and far between though. 

Maybe I should go back to college as a mature student and see what happens...


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

^In relation to BDD - It is very much related. 
People with BDD get that way from people talking about them also when no one should of put them down.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

CBT isn't supposed to convince people of positives that are untrue. In the example you give of people calling you ugly, you would examine who (and what types of people) did this, their motives/agendas, and also how they treated others. For example, they may have been bullies in general, picking on many attributes and people, magnifying any perceived flaws. You could similarly examine those who gave you positive feedback. More importantly, if any of the taunts happened to be about an attribute you did possess (e.g., a stutter), you would examine the implications rationally: for example, looking at how such attributes do not necessarily prevent people being happy, achieving their goals, or loving themselves, and finding examples of such people. You would also examine your own attitude to, and perceptions around, the attribute to determine whether you are magnifying it or catastrophising, etc.


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## NervousInDublin (Feb 19, 2010)

thanks for the replies folks, definitely going to give it a go so. I will read more about BDD too, but athough I;m not even mildly convinced, i do appreciate sunshines input. 

I have read cbt for dummies (prob around june/july 09) and 2/3rds of feeling good around the same period so i defo need a refresher so think I give the dummies one another quick scan before my new books arrive but odd one out is what your getting at is that CBT effectively trys to weaken the argument for the negative thought? It might not prove it to be untrue but weakens the strength of it in your head..?

I seem to remember from one of the cbt books (perhaps both) that an element of cbt is to indeed disprove thoughts and fears. I was half thinking of creating a profile on online dating to try and disprove or weaken my belief that I am well you know... i dont want to say it. Typing it in itself kind of subconsiously reenforces it somewhat. Is the a bad idea? I've heard online dating can be ruthless, it would prob set me back more than it would help. 

What CBT books you folks read? Or is it mainly through in person CBT session with a therpist?


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## Black_Widow (May 23, 2008)

No probs for the reply 

In case you might find any of these helpful, some other CBT based books I've read and each found helpful (at least to some extent) in different ways (aside from the CBT for Dummies book you've mentioned there) include:

Overcoming Low Self Esteem by Melanie Fennell
Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness by Gillian Butler
Overcoming Anxiety for Dummies
Depression for Dummies
Overcoming Depression -Paul Gilbert
Mind Over Mood - Dennis Greenberger and Christine A. Padesky

I don't know if Depression is also part of your problems or not. But thought I'd include those there in case it happens to be. Hope that helps!


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## NervousInDublin (Feb 19, 2010)

cheers,

I have Gillian Butlers on the way to me and some stuff about depression. Yeah depression is part of it but I'm almost certain that my depression comes from my SA and not the other way around. SA I guess come from low self esteem in some way shape of form.

Don't have any books on self esteem specifially but it's covered I'm sure in the ones about SA/depression. I'm going to have to get addication conseling for shopping on amazon, its just when your suffering from something and you think a book might help, its very hard to not buy it. I ordered about 6 diff self help books (and 6 IT ones) the other day. I wonder how many of us here read into the theory too much as opposed to actually doing it.



Black_Widow said:


> No probs for the reply
> 
> In case you might find any of these helpful, some other CBT based books I've read and each found helpful (at least to some extent) in different ways (aside from the CBT for Dummies book you've mentioned there) include:
> 
> ...


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## Black_Widow (May 23, 2008)

NervousInDublin said:


> cheers,
> 
> I have Gillian Butlers on the way to me and some stuff about depression. Yeah depression is part of it but I'm almost certain that my depression comes from my SA and not the other way around. SA I guess come from low self esteem in some way shape of form.


It's the same sort of case with me. My depression's a reactive type of depression - because of my anxiety problems - including my SA. I still personally found alot of info I've read in the books on depression I checked out very useful for gaining insight as to how to deal with it though. I hope you find the books you've ordered helpful too, good luck with that.



NervousInDublin said:


> cheers,
> 
> I have Gillian Butlers on the way to me and some stuff about depression. Yeah depression is part of it but I'm almost certain that my depression comes from my SA and not the other way around. SA I guess come from low self esteem in some way shape of form.
> 
> Don't have any books on self esteem specifially but it's covered I'm sure in the ones about SA/depression. I'm going to have to get addication conseling for shopping on amazon, its just when your suffering from something and you think a book might help, its very hard to not buy it. I ordered about 6 diff self help books (and 6 IT ones) the other day. I wonder how many of us here read into the theory too much as opposed to actually doing it.


In my case, I think I am probably one of those people who's done alot more reading than actually doing - when it comes to implementing CBT methods. As when it's come to using some of the techniques suggested in the self help books I've read - as well as by the CBT therapist I saw for a shortish time back between 2007 and 2008 - I've struggled with using them. Still, I have found using techniques such as thought challenging, using breathing relaxation exercises, and exposure exercises useful to some extent. My agoraphobia, when it comes to going out around local areas, is much better than it used to be. I've become much better at noticing the typical kinds of thoughts patterns that set negative feelings in me off and recognising some of the distortions that go with these thoughts - so as a result manage my depression much better than I would have been able to before I tried any kind of CBT help. Though I've still got a long way to go before I've fully overcome my depression and anxiety problems - I've definitely found CBT's already made some positive difference, though it didn't happen overnight.

Hope that things soon begin to improve for you!


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

NervousInDublin said:


> but odd one out is what your getting at is that CBT effectively trys to weaken the argument for the negative thought? It might not prove it to be untrue but weakens the strength of it in your head..?


Thoughts that stem from fact--and are not a result of cognitive biases--are not denied, no matter whether they are considered positive or negative. A competent therapist should realise this. However, the ideas about the implications of a particular truth or fact could still be wrong and a result of cognitive biases. For example, you may be misjudging or distorting the implications of having a particular trait (e.g., a stutter) and catastrophising based on underlying, but fundamentally flawed, beliefs (e.g., that it means never finding a job because such an attribute is shameful and negates all positives). These beliefs are challenged and tested to determine their validity.



NervousInDublin said:


> I was half thinking of creating a profile on online dating to try and disprove or weaken my belief that I am well you know... i dont want to say it. Typing it in itself kind of subconsiously reenforces it somewhat. Is the a bad idea? I've heard online dating can be ruthless, it would prob set me back more than it would help.


The challenges and tests of validity need to be specific. Before trying something like the above example, you would consider things like the following: which concrete measures would mean definitely attractive/unattractive (is there a clear cut-off?); whether these measures can be explained by things other than being unattractive; whether you only wish to measure physical attractiveness (there is much more contributing to being attractive and sexy than appearance, such as body-language, personality traits, achievements, and attitude); how the attractiveness of any photograph used depends on angle, lighting, expression, hairstyle, and many other variables (the same person can look drastically different in different photos); whether there is a written profile included (this contributes to what deters or attracts others); the general attributes, attitudes, and goals of those who use the service; the average success rate of attracting replies for those of your age, gender, etc.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

I know it's easier said than done, but the next time someone calls you "ugly" say, "better to be ugly on the outside than ugly on the inside."

Honestly, the nerve of some people! :no 

I hope CBT works out for you.


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## NervousInDublin (Feb 19, 2010)

> The challenges and tests of validity need to be specific. Before trying something like the above example, you would consider things like the following: which concrete measures would mean definitely attractive/unattractive (is there a clear cut-off?); whether these measures can be explained by things other than being unattractive; whether you only wish to measure physical attractiveness (there is much more contributing to being attractive and sexy than appearance, such as body-language, personality traits, achievements, and attitude); how the attractiveness of any photograph used depends on angle, lighting, expression, hairstyle, and many other variables (the same person can look drastically different in different photos); whether there is a written profile included (this contributes to what deters or attracts others); the general attributes, attitudes, and goals of those who use the service; the average success rate of attracting replies for those of your age, gender, etc.


Yeah I know I to be careful how to measure this thing. Basically I will only measure it by actual dates, I can pretty much tell when a date went great, interaction wise, I can tell if I had my 'A game' with me as such at the end of it, so if date goes very well (i make her laugh, good conversation, good connection etc.) but girl doesn't want to go out with me on 2nd date even though we got on like a house i fire I will tentatively accept that as proving my 'theory' (or at least counting towards it but only in the context of it happening repeatedly not on its own) but if they do go on a 2nd date then obviously they haven't got any issues with the way I look. The 'capturing' of one 2nd date will be much more positive that the negative associated with not getting one.

neptunus I did actually say something like this to someone on st. stephens day (26th dec) just gone. He apologised and said he didn't know why he said it, damage was done though.

excellent thread folks, getting a lot of thought here and good nuggets of information which are helping to fill in gaps..


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## littledippr86 (Feb 28, 2010)

You should post a pic and we can tell you.
I feel ugly a lot too, but it can be irrational. Cuz my roommate is pretty ugly but she acts so confident so sometimes I forget about her buck-teeth and giraffe neck. Sorry, that's mean.


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## CoreyNiles (Mar 24, 2009)

Being unattractive isn't the end of the world people are too caught up in looks, Personality plays a big role too, Being more confident about what you do look like helps, I don't even care what people think of my looks anymore, I used to but all I ever got was negative remarks, But I realized all that matters is that your okay with yourself.


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## OregonMommy (Mar 3, 2010)

I think that there's a therapy for everyone. CBT didn't do much for me, either. It didn't get to the core of my SA and former depression. I'm trying a whole other approach that works.

BTW, who are these ppl calling you ugly, and who made them god?  I think ppl can be really superficial and deem something of the exterior as important. I'm sure it hurts to hear comments from ppl like that. I've had similar experiences of ppl telling me I'm 'slow'. What's worse, is that my father was like, brilliant, high IQ and used to tell me in so many words, cruelly, that I was dumb, ignoring my other traits. I learned through therapy to not allow myself to be defined by others. I have many, many positive traits. But believe it or not, I don't cling to those, either (I'm really into eastern thought, and we learn to not be attached or be identified with anything). 

Please ignore these ppl, don't believe anything they say, don't let them define you, don't let the b****** drag you down!

We're a lookist society, obsessed with looks which is riduculous. See where it has gotten us, some ppl are so obsessed with looks, they've destroyed their bodies. I want to say, why not work on your soul? On your growth, relationships, your mind?

It _is _more important to be beautiful on the inside. 
The best to you, hope you find something that works for you.


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