# Creativity: Klonopin vs Valium



## RobDaBomb (Sep 14, 2012)

Hello everybody, I been struggling with anxiety and ADHD my whole life and finally this past year started going to a psychiatrist for it. 

Initially she wanted me on Zoloft and other SSRI's and such... Bad idea, (which I knew it was from the start) it turned me into a zombie. I explained to her how I need to be able to think spontaneous and creatively and have a pretty decent memory. I only make a living based off of my intense creativity. Finally I got Adderall IR (XR didn't help at all with creativity, it made me droned out sort of) and Clonazepam (Klonopin). 

Adderall IR (I got 10mg, but only take 5 or less at a time) helps well with boosting my body and mind but affects my anxiety worse, and the Klonopin (RX'd at .5mg, but I don't normally take a full one, well at times I do depending on the situation). This seemed to work well with being productive and creative at the same time while helping my anxiety. Yet I noticed that this combination would affect me performing and such at times (I'm trying theatre in college now, and if I'm only on KP's then I'm to slow it seems, while the adderall will help balance it out but EITHER WAY I'm still anxious and nervous and shakey and all. Trying to take more Klonopin for it only makes me more droopy and that isn't effective (I don't like being 'drugged', just normal and peppy, witty, and smart)).

The worst part of my anxiety is the sweating I get (which is normal, whether I'm anxious or not, but its amplified in these situations). So I'm considering trying beta blockers just for times where this is really bad, but I'm worried it will effect my mind in a way I wouldn't want. My mind is way to precious to me.

Recently my friend gave me a 10mg Valium and I cut it in 4th's and took a fourth an hr or so after just under 5mg of Adderall and it seemed to help really well with my anxiety. Although, my friend has told me that it pretty much rendered their memory useless... which scares me. 

Can anybody help compare the Valium and Klonopin to eachother? ESPECIALLY when it comes to being creative, witty, and 'quick on your feet'. (oh and memory too! that helps with creativity hah).

I really don't know how to word this message... my friend (when I ask them about this a lot, gets annoyed and tells me to stop complaining, but that's because they don't make a few thousand dollars for their creative projects) isn't helping at all. Initially she told me that Valium is like Klonopin but makes you more 'smart' and less drowsy... but then she went on telling me how her memory is crap due to it. 

Oh, I also am aware that both medications are completely different when it comes to their chemical structures and both tend to last in your system a while. This worries me about the Valium because I don't want to start it and then if it messes with my imagination/creativity/wittyness it will then last for a while before leaving my system. I already know the Klonopin seems to help a lot, but now that college is putting me in more anxious situations, it's not seeming to get the job done without taking more of it, which then renders me 'drugged' and that kinda backfires on my mind (although it may help with anxiety, it doesn't help with me functioning).

Thanks for reading my wall of text and any input you can do. My main question is what you guys could say about Klonopin vs Valium, especially on the creative mind and memory and wittyness and all (I know that if I go talk to people with JUST the right amount of KPin and Adderall taken at the right times, I can make a bunch of people laugh and want to be my best friend... I really like this, but its very hard to get just the right amount to work together and at what times to take them because they seem to work at different time cycles)

Thanks again, I'm just gonna stop typing now lol. If you have any questions or more, then just ask. This is very important to me so if I can help you in any way help me, then I'm all for it!


----------



## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

I found that all benzos generally affected my memory, maybe because they made me feel much more sedated. It's harder to retain stuff when you are not always fully awake. Still though, I managed to finish a 4 year degree even when abusing both clonazepam and opioids, so the effect couldn't have been that major. Even creativity-wise, I think I was okay. I think it has more to do with the sedative properties than anything else but I'm not absolutely certain. By the end though when I was using mega-doses, it greatly affected my performance at work. I was moving in slow motion and constantly falling asleep even with stimulants (modafinil, ritalin, etc.)

Also, I didn't find any difference between the benzos except with respect to tolerance. Clonazepam was my favourite because it seemed to lead to less tolerance. Lorazepam was the worst. Diazepam, I'm not sure because I rarely used it as my only benzo.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Welcome to the forums!

I prefer valium personally. It last much longer for me, reduces my anxiety very well, doesn't make me drowsy for forgetful. You need to try both and see which best meets your needs.

If you try Valium and don't like it, that's fine. You can just not take it again and keep taking Klonopin. the next time you need it. This class of drugs has a very quick onset time and the noticeable effects of eith will be gone within 24 hours. You're not going to try Valium once and be stuck on it if it isn't good for you. 

Don't take your "friends advice into account, she doesn't know what she's talking about. If these drugs don't work well for you and it affects your livelihood, there are plenty of other anxiolytics you can try. Gabapentin and pregabalin come to mind.

Good luck sir

ps- there are plenty of benzos besides just klonopin and Valium that you can try as well. Xanax might be good because it is short acting, you could take it when needed for anxiety and not take it when you want to do your art.


----------



## RobDaBomb (Sep 14, 2012)

Thank you very much for taking the time to help and for the welcome guys!

Yeah I don't have much of a memory problem with benzos, but that's mainly because of the low dose I try to take to prevent having to need more. I have noticed though that if I take my KPin everyday for a week straight due to school or such, by the end of the week I ended up having to take more for the effect. But then, just like you said, I would start to have some difficulty recalling details about stuff the day before or so, and also get that 'slow motion' feel because I end up having to make more. That's rare though because I try not to take them enough to get a tolerance, but it happens. 

And I've tried Xanax before and didn't mind it, but I noticed it tended to be a little to strong for me and would just kind of leave me sitting in a chair with an 'IDGAF' attitude lol. Additionally short acting doesn't seem to work as good for me, mainly because when I do need my anxiety medication its for multiple hours when I'll be out and about.

My current problem now is with my psychiatrist getting me either Valium or Klonopin, because she won't let me have both at the same time to try. So I don't know if I want to risk the switch to Valium thus risking it not working good for my normal pretty regularish use, like I do with Klonopin's. In case I decided I needed to switch back to the Klonopin's then she wouldn't Rx them for me because she is a real stickler about prescriptions (she knew about my marijuana history and thus is very hesitant about giving me any scheduled Rx, even if she knows I'm being truthful that I need it, I can tell shes still iffy always when it comes to getting something new or what not).

Luckily I got a few from my friend and have tried it a couple times now. She gave me 10 mg ones and so far I've only tried a fourth of one and then at another time just under a half or so. Both times they seemed to help a lot for my anxiety and allowed me to be very comfortable with people and also I noticed my mind still worked well and was highly witty and such... BUT then after about 4 hours from when I took it (BOTH TIMES) I just 'hit a wall' and start to slurr words and get slow and not want to move and such and all. It really is weird and sort of a problem... but then again, I also can tell that at that time my Adderall has probably worn off (I feel that when the chemicals the Adderall had going on lessen it effects the Valium, or perhaps I'm just completely wrong and at 4 hours the Valium just changes??? Idk yet, still trying to find out). 

Another thing I'm curious about is Beta Blockers. The worst part of my anxiety (even on Klonopin or, recently, Valium) I have absolutely TERRIIBBLELEE physical symptoms. I already am ALWAYS sweating pretty much (just like my hands and when I'm sitting in a chair my... ahem, butt and back will sweat just on a normal basis, whether or not I'm in a social situation or at home in the comfort and privacy of my own room). Benzos have helped with this slightly... but not much.

I wonder if combing a small amount of Beta Blocker with my normal ritual of Adderall and a benzo when I need them would greatly help me?
Any input on this guys?

Thanks again for the replies! Oh, and back to the main topic of creativity on them... well I really can't say yet because its too soon for the Valium and idk what I'm going to do about it with my psych doc.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I don't know much about beta blockers, but from what I do know, they often help the physical symptoms you describe.

I don't know why you get that effect from valium. II have an idea though, beside your idea of Adderall wearing off to cause you to become tired. Diazepam is metabolized into desmethyldiazepam, which is an active metabolite that produces some of the effects you feel from valium. It usually takes much longer than four hours for a significant amount of Diazepam to be metabolized but if you are a fast metabolizer then perhaps you are it is the effects of desmethyldiazepam that hit you hard and cause the effects you do not like.

That is just a possible idea, I don't know how likely it is. You don't seem like a particularly fast metabolizer because it sounds like relatively small doses of benzos have a quite strong effect on you. But anything is possible.

I don't know what to do about your psychiatrist. If you want to continue experimenting with xanax then perhaps you could ask her for like a 10 day prescription so you could try it, then call her up once you've decided and tell her which drug you want to stay on.

Some Psychiatrists do prescribe more than one benzo at a time. I've had four psychiatrists and two doctors who have prescribed me 2 or 3 benzos at once. Maybe finding a different psychiatrist would help?

Good luck figuring this out.


----------



## rustybob (Nov 19, 2009)

I had an awesome, detailed write up done, and then my browser crashed. I'm not retyping everything again, so this basically a summary of what I had before...

You seem to respond well to low dose Valium, just like me. I'd say the risk/benefit weighting very much favors "benefit". For risk, it's possible Valium won't work as well, and increased anxiety sucks. But this isn't drug vs placebo, it's something that's shown some efficacy vs a similar drug that has already shown efficacy. Basically, it's a situation that, at worst, is gonna cause decreased effect, not an entire loss.

I'm currently on 5mg/day of Valium, and have been for nearly four months. The anti-anxiety effect is just as good as day 1. Side effects were minimal to begin with, and basically zero now. I've done 10mg/day of Valium before as well, and at both doses there's no amnesic effect. Ativan at 1mg was really bad for amnesia, basically placebo at a lower dose. Temazepam (desired effect) and alprazolam (undesired) both just knocked me out, so it's tough to say whether there were amnesic effects. For me, the potential for a better, non-amnesic drug far outweighs the potential loss of efficacy.

Even though I'd take my Valium in the morning, for the first week I was basically comatose when I went to sleep (slept in for work a few times even with multiple alarm clocks), which is odd at a dose as low as 5mg. This was gone after a week.

Valium probably has a higher initial side effect profile I would think, since it is "dirty" compared to other benzos (in that it has multiple active metabolites). Tolerance to the undesirable effects is usually fast though. From what I've read, tolerance is always rapid to the hypnotic and muscle relaxant effects, around a year to the anti-convulsant effects, and debatable on the amnesic and anxiolytic effects (generally none-to-some on amnesia, and slow developing to non-existent for anxiety).


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

rustybob said:


> I had an awesome, detailed write up done, and then my browser crashed. I'm not retyping everything again, so this basically a summary of what I had before...
> 
> You seem to respond well to low dose Valium, just like me. I'd say the risk/benefit weighting very much favors "benefit". For risk, it's possible Valium won't work as well, and increased anxiety sucks. But this isn't drug vs placebo, it's something that's shown some efficacy vs a similar drug that has already shown efficacy. Basically, it's a situation that, at worst, is gonna cause decreased effect, not an entire loss.
> 
> ...


Of course the the post you wrote that got accidentally lost was a great post 

I'm kidding that usually happens with the best posts. I usually try to type everything in a word processor, then copy and paste it into onto the internets 

I also think Valum would be good for rob da bomb, because it is less potent than Klonopin, it more easily be split into smaller doses if he feels it is too strong.

You get by on 5 mg a day? That's awesome. Ever since day one I've needed 30 mgs to keep me steady. But it is very effective my favorite med. It has never made me tired. I used to have to take 10 mg to get me out of bed in the morning (I had serious anxiety at the time was in a panic for the oment I woke up'till the moment I fell asleep..

I agree that ativan and temazepam are only useful if you have insomnia or enjoy nodding of without any memory.

I never found valium to sedating, even at doses as high as 100 mg.

I strongly disagree that valium is a "dirty" drug or even any more "Dirty" than any other benzo. Almost all benzos have several active metabolites. Besites that, whether or not a drug has active (or inactive) metabolites is not what makes it "dirty."

A "dirty" drug reffers to a drug that effects many neurotransmitters and receptor sights so that it has a host of affects and is not specialized for its express purpose. A "clean" drug would refer to a drug that only effects what it is designed to effects. Like some people use marijuana to ease the pain of tendonitis, instead of simply taking an anti-inflammatory. Marijuana is a "dirty drug" for that purpose because it has so many effects that have nothing to do with relieving inflammation. I has so many different effects in our mind and body. Whereas the right anti inflammatory drug would be "clean" because it would only reduce inflammation of the tendons and would have no other effects. Benzos are very clean drugs because they only affect a few Gaba receptors, The various active metabolites of benzos only effect the same Gaba receptors too, so those are very clean too.

You're getting a little rusty there Mr. Bob.


----------



## RobDaBomb (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks a lot guys for all the input! I am currently experimenting still by using Valium yesterday at first, then a bit of KPin to stop that weird wall effect that I felt before (which did seem to work very well, except I don't like that KPin takes a bit longer to fully function, while Valium seems to start working faster but also depleting faster as well). Today I took only KPin just for comparison. 

To be honest, it did help me be very talkative like usual, and I actually didn't need to take a full .5 pill of it today (probably because for the past few days I didn't really take it so my tolerance dropped). And surprisingly, I wasn't sweating that much or anything like usual also? But that may be because I was wakeboarding yesterday for like 2 hours straight (I haven't really wakeboarded much at all this summer but I love it, and yesterday my parents were taking their boat out of the water so I wanted to get one last session in) and was extreemmmellyy warn out and tired and in an insane amount of pain (my muscles are ridiculously sore now, which tends to happen afterward if my body's not used to that much) and I fell badly and messed up my neck. So perhaps just me using all my energy yesterday (and I didn't get much sleep last night) caused me to not have much in me to really sweat out hah. 

And to istayhome, I actually have a really fast metabolism. Not only with normal food and liquid consumption but with drugs as well. For example, when I was on probation I had drug tests and at times my adderall or klonopin wouldn't show up at all even though I would take it a couple days before or such. Also, that may be potentially why I am able to take such low doses for effect.

And to rustybob, I totally feel ya on the browser crash... I've had that happen to me WAYYYY to many times to count. It's actually now a constant worry of mine every time I write a forum post or something else really long (although its not always a crash, sometimes just a website server timeout or something that sucks). My method has always been to periodically hit CTRL+A and then CTRL+C so I'd copy it all, that way in case something happens I have an at least recent portion of it still copied and ready to be pasted . But thanks for taking the time to do the first, and THEN redo it again still in a summary (some would just give up afterward lol). I do seem to respond pretty well to the Valium, except it is hard to get the right dose because I have to cut the 10mg pills up into 4ths and then still have it be uneven and try to take some more of a dif. 4th and end up just having powder and etc... But it does seem (at least from my short period of trying it) that I really need Adderall to go with it. It still has been to soon to completely tell.

I finally hit 18 less than half a year ago so I'm still new to the whole 'being able to go to my own doc' scene. But I do know that there's not THAT many psych doctors around my area (mainly because most all work in the same buildings, so if you switch they kinda just learn all from their coworker who was your doc before). Plus, I'm on my parents insurance and their paying for it all so I don't want them to have to deal with all the expenses of switching and seeing new ones as well.

Furthermore, I have scheduled an apt. with my doc this Wednesday afternoon to see what I can do. Except I'm still not sure if I should focus on asking about only beta blockers, or the Valium or such. Mainly because I only will be able to ask about one or the other (otherwise I'll get one, and she'll be a little nervous Rx'ing me all this stuff at once when we haven't had a face to face meeting in a few months). If I just try for beta blockers, then I probably will continue getting my other medication fine, but then if I try for a different benzo, I know she will be iffy and may do it, but then we'd have to go in a whole debate about how and why my KPins not working for me and about doses and such and I really don't want that to just be the total focus of our meeting. 

Idk yet, hah I'm highly indecisive :x. 

Thanks for the replies still guys, this forum has really been helpful for just the few days I've been a member!


----------



## RobDaBomb (Sep 14, 2012)

Hey guys, sorry for the extra post. But I have my doctors appointment at 330pm today and I'm pretty nervous. I don't know if I should tell her to try a beta blocker or a muscle relaxant (from what I read, both seem to help anxiety, more on the physical side). 

Any one have any say on either? Especially a muscle relaxant and its more.. 'long term' effect on your anxiety?

Thanks so much!


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Ask for both?
What muscle relaxants are you thinking about?


----------



## RobDaBomb (Sep 14, 2012)

Okay so I went to my doc. and just mentioned muscle relaxers in general and she instantly was like 'no go senor rob-o'. She was telling me how theres more of a risk that it will 'mess' with my mind and if i'm currently in a state of mind that i like with my benzo and amphetamine then i shouldn't risk changing it.

She actually recommended beta blockers before i even mentioned them though for my physical symptoms of anxiety. She recommended Atenolol at 100mgs and told me to just take a half or even a quarter if I need to. I asked her about it and other types of beta blockers and she said the other she normally would prescribe would be Propranolol, but she said that that one tends to cross the 'blood brain barrier' more so she didn't suggest it. Which i appreciate, considering I don't really want to mess with my mind. 

I haven't tried it yet, mainly because i don't want to try it on a day that i have class and am taking my other meds as well. I'd rather just see how it affects me on its own first to judge.


----------



## bliAcherim (Sep 23, 2012)

RobDaBomb said:


> Can anybody help compare the Valium and Klonopin to eachother? ESPECIALLY when it comes to being creative, witty, and 'quick on your feet'. (oh and memory too! that helps with creativity hah).


Yes.

Clonazepam has an anti-panic property to it that diazepam simply lacks. You will not experience any anti-panic effects from diazepam/valium once the clonazepam wears off (this takes 52 hours or longer from your last dose if my memory serves... it takes a while). Clonazepam caused much more cognitive impairment in every area than did diazepam.

So the major difference is that diazepam does not prevent panic attacks. Diazepam will initially make you much more tired than clonazepam will, but those effects wear of. Clonazepam will create much more serious cognitive deficits than diazepam will as well. The only use diazepam has ever had for me is that it helps me discontinue the more effective benzos like xanax and clonazepam without a seizure. It does not effectively treat SA at all, but it allows one to sleep while withdrawing from the effective benzos mentioned above.


----------



## bliAcherim (Sep 23, 2012)

RobDaBomb said:


> Okay so I went to my doc. and just mentioned muscle relaxers in general and she instantly was like 'no go senor rob-o'. She was telling me how theres more of a risk that it will 'mess' with my mind and if i'm currently in a state of mind that i like with my benzo and amphetamine then i shouldn't risk changing it.
> 
> She actually recommended beta blockers before i even mentioned them though for my physical symptoms of anxiety. She recommended Atenolol at 100mgs and told me to just take a half or even a quarter if I need to. I asked her about it and other types of beta blockers and she said the other she normally would prescribe would be Propranolol, but she said that that one tends to cross the 'blood brain barrier' more so she didn't suggest it. Which i appreciate, considering I don't really want to mess with my mind.
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, mainly because i don't want to try it on a day that i have class and am taking my other meds as well. I'd rather just see how it affects me on its own first to judge.


I think you're the first person I've come across considering the same 3 medications that I'm on. I'm taking amphetamines, benzos (withdrawing) and propranolol at the same time. By far the most effective medication for SA has been propranolol. Withdrawal from propanolol is something I worry quite a lot about after my experience with benzos. Propranolol is not psychoative in the same way as amphetamines and benzos. It sort of blunts emotional pain while preventing your body from panicking... so that you can keep a clear head and do whatever needs to be done. The best thing about propranolol/inderal is that you learn by exposure how to act in situations that formerly caused uncontrollable panic attacks. It's amazing. Unfortunately, if you are not on propranolol, you may be surprised and caught totally off guard by especially severe physical panic attacks. I developed an arrhythmia during withdrawal from propranolol that was diagnosed by an EKG as pericarditis. It was confirmed by subsequent EKGs. There is a good chance that this was not a true pericardial arrhythmia but that it was induced by withdrawal from high-dose propranolol instead. The most frightening experience of my life was being overcome by waves of heat while feeling like I was falling... all out of nowhere. That's what the arrhythmia felt like. I thought I was going to die and I was horrified to learn that this was not in my head, it was a real (but apparently harmless?) cardiac arrhythmia. Anyway, it went away and I've never taken propranolol on consecutive days since. It's been 8 months since the EKGs.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

bliAcherim said:


> Yes.
> 
> Clonazepam has an anti-panic property to it that diazepam simply lacks. You will not experience any anti-panic effects from diazepam/valium once the clonazepam wears off (this takes 52 hours or longer from your last dose if my memory serves... it takes a while). Clonazepam caused much more cognitive impairment in every area than did diazepam.
> 
> So the major difference is that diazepam does not prevent panic attacks. Diazepam will initially make you much more tired than clonazepam will, but those effects wear of. Clonazepam will create much more serious cognitive deficits than diazepam will as well. The only use diazepam has ever had for me is that it helps me discontinue the more effective benzos like xanax and clonazepam without a seizure. It does not effectively treat SA at all, but it allows one to sleep while withdrawing from the effective benzos mentioned above.


This is HIGHLY subjective. Of all the benzos, Valium has proven to be the best anti-panic med out there for me; with the least cognitive impairment and the least sedation *for me*. Clonazepam is totally ineffective for me, even at doses of 20 mg I have absolutely no effects from it whatsoever.

@bliAcherim be cautious of passing your subjective experience off as fact.


----------



## bliAcherim (Sep 23, 2012)

istayhome said:


> This is HIGHLY subjective. Of all the benzos, Valium has proven to be the best anti-panic med out there for me; with the least cognitive impairment and the least sedation *for me*. Clonazepam is totally ineffective for me, even at doses of 20 mg I have absolutely no effects from it whatsoever.
> 
> @bliAcherim be cautious of passing your subjective experience off as fact.


"even at doses of 20 mg I have absolutely no effects from it whatsoever."

This cannot be believed by a thinking person.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

bliAcherim said:


> "even at doses of 20 mg I have absolutely no effects from it whatsoever."
> 
> This cannot be believed by a thinking person.


I agree it is unusual and was a great disappointment but for some reason Clonazepam simply doesn't work for me. I tried every brand available, from different pharmacies and it just doesn't do anything to me. My psychiatrist was most definitely a thinking person and he certainly believed me.

This should illustrate the idiosyncrasies of individual human physiology and remind you that the effects of different drugs on different individuals can vary a lot. This is why it is a mistake to assume that your individual experience of a drug will be the same for everyone and why it is inadvisable to present your own experience of a drug as a fact that will apply to everyone.

You must be aware that almost no one responds to the same ssri in the same way, this is the case with all psychotropic drugs.


----------



## bliAcherim (Sep 23, 2012)

istayhome said:


> I agree it is unusual and was a great disappointment but for some reason Clonazepam simply doesn't work for me. I tried every brand available, from different pharmacies and it just doesn't do anything to me. My psychiatrist was most definitely a thinking person and he certainly believed me.
> 
> *This should illustrate the idiosyncrasies of individual human physiology and remind you that the effects of different drugs on different individuals can vary a lot.* This is why it is a mistake to assume that your individual experience of a drug will be the same for everyone and why it is inadvisable to present your own experience of a drug as a fact that will apply to everyone.
> 
> You must be aware that almost no one responds to the same ssri in the same way, this is the case with all psychotropic drugs.


No. Your claim that twenty mg of clonazepam does not affect you in the slightest makes me question your reliability and does nothing to highlight 'idiosyncratic' reactions to drugs. 20mg of clonazepam is equivalent to 400mg of valium. Your report is not accurate. I don't care at all why that is, but your advice cannot be relied upon.


----------



## bliAcherim (Sep 23, 2012)

bliAcherim said:


> No. Your claim that twenty mg of clonazepam does not affect you in the slightest makes me question your reliability and does nothing to highlight 'idiosyncratic' reactions to drugs. 20mg of clonazepam is equivalent to 400mg of valium. Your report is not accurate. I don't care at all why that is, but your advice cannot be relied upon.





istayhome said:


> I agree it is unusual and was a great disappointment but for some reason Clonazepam simply doesn't work for me. I tried every brand available, from different pharmacies and it just doesn't do anything to me. My psychiatrist was most definitely a thinking person and he certainly believed me.
> 
> This should illustrate the idiosyncrasies of individual human physiology and remind you that the effects of different drugs on different individuals can vary a lot. This is why it is a mistake to assume that your individual experience of a drug will be the same for everyone and why it is inadvisable to present your own experience of a drug as a fact that will apply to everyone.
> 
> *You must be aware that almost no one responds to the same ssri in the same way, this is the case with all psychotropic drugs.*


And that last bit demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of benzodiazepines and their mechanism of action: these are depressants... if you take 20mg clon / 400mg diazepam, you will experience severe CNS depression and be seriously intoxicated if you are conscious at all. This isn't a debate. By your absurd logic, 100 shots of ethanol might do nothing for your. After all, it's just a depressant that everyone reacts to differently. Righto.


----------



## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

That is strange, Zoloft has made me much more creative and quick witted; it also has seemed to make my depression and anxiety worse though. Also I wish I could only take .25 mg of klonopin and get an effect (I used to be able to), I have to take 2-3mg (4-6 pills) before I start to feel anything. I kinda want to push it one day and see how much I can handle.


----------



## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

ThatOneQuietGuy said:


> That is strange, Zoloft has made me much more creative and quick witted; it also has seemed to make my depression and anxiety worse though. Also I wish I could only take .25 mg of klonopin and get an effect, I have to take 2-3mg (4-6 pills) before I start to feel anything. I kinda want to push it one day and see how much I can handle.


why are you still taking zoloft if it isn't helping your depression or anxiety?


----------



## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> why are you still taking zoloft if it isn't helping your depression or anxiety?


I like the effect it has at making me more talkative. Even though it makes me feel more edgy.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

bliAcherim said:


> And that last bit demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of benzodiazepines and their mechanism of action: these are depressants... if you take 20mg clon / 400mg diazepam, you will experience severe CNS depression and be seriously intoxicated if you are conscious at all. This isn't a debate. By your absurd logic, 100 shots of ethanol might do nothing for your. After all, it's just a depressant that everyone reacts to differently. Righto.


Ummmm ok, I don't understand what you are attempting to say. My logic is not absurd and we're not talking about ETOH. Clonazepam for some reason that I do not understand does not agonize my GABA receptors at all. It is a unique molecule that apparently doesn't do what it is designed to do in my brain as it does nothing in my brain. Neither my psychiatrist or I can come up with a reason for this, it is my own unique physiology

And for the record I have taken 20 mg of Alprazolam and felt good But I was most certainly conscious and I only experience minimal CNS depression. I am a lightweight when it comes to alcohol.

I would suspect that the reason ETOH affects everyone is because it is an extremely small molecule that works it's way everywhere in the body. It even passes through the stomach lining directly into our blood, unlike almost every other molecule that we would ingest. Also ETOH is an incredibly dirty drug, unlike benzos, so it affects a host of auto receptors unlike Clonazepam.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

bliAcherim said:


> No. Your claim that twenty mg of clonazepam does not affect you in the slightest makes me question your reliability and does nothing to highlight 'idiosyncratic' reactions to drugs. 20mg of clonazepam is equivalent to 400mg of valium. Your report is not accurate. I don't care at all why that is, but your advice cannot be relied upon.


So don't believe me, It's not a P*ssing contest. The drug doesn't affect me. But there are countless cases of drugs having an idiosyncratic or paradoxical effect. So I would not question an individual who says that a drug does not affect him as it is "supposed to" Even in the prescribing info of most drugs it will outline this fact and point out that drugs may have a different effect on you than their normal effects.

You saying that 20 mg of cloazepam is equivalent to 400 mg of Diazepam illustrates this point as equivalency charts often vary between 1 mg Clonazepam=10 mg of Diazepam or 0.5 mg of Clonazepam=10 mg of Diazepam. You will find that people experience the effects of the drugs differently and will give you different subjective equivalencies.

I'm sure sorry you don't want to believe me. That's fine but the mysteries of human physiology are discounted by no one.


----------

