# Ritalin cures me



## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

I've been doing some serious reading about Ritalin. Ritalin works for me best when initially taken, but daily use it loses it's effectiveness. But that doesn't make sense to me at all as it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor? How is it possible that the initial dose cures my SA but the therapeutic dose doesn't? To be fair, the longest I tried Ritalin was a week and also max dose was 10mg/5mg x2 daily. I respond better to Ritalin than adderall. It seems that I respond differently than most of the SA'ers on this site. Are there any meds I should check out that are similar to the dopamine reuptake like Ritalin?


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## rik (Jan 4, 2010)

for AD(H)D:

medikinet
equasym
concerta

contains all ritalin.

others:

dexamphetamine
adderall
modafinil


and then there is:

wellbutrin
strattera


did you experience rebound anxiety or depression? Ritalin works good for me to but it comes with another type of anxiety with it. one time I've got paranoid on it, but that was many hours later than the rebound.


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

barry1685 said:


> I've been doing some serious reading about Ritalin. Ritalin works for me best when initially taken, but daily use it loses it's effectiveness. But that doesn't make sense to me at all as it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor? How is it possible that the initial dose cures my SA but the therapeutic dose doesn't? To be fair, the longest I tried Ritalin was a week and also max dose was 10mg/5mg x2 daily. I respond better to Ritalin than adderall. It seems that I respond differently than most of the SA'ers on this site. Are there any meds I should check out that are similar to the dopamine reuptake like Ritalin?


Do you have ADHD?


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

barry1685 said:


> I've been doing some serious reading about Ritalin. Ritalin works for me best when initially taken, but daily use it loses it's effectiveness. But that doesn't make sense to me at all as it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor? How is it possible that the initial dose cures my SA but the therapeutic dose doesn't? To be fair, the longest I tried Ritalin was a week and also max dose was 10mg/5mg x2 daily. I respond better to Ritalin than adderall. It seems that I respond differently than most of the SA'ers on this site. Are there any meds I should check out that are similar to the dopamine reuptake like Ritalin?


Don't go with releasing agents like amps.

Use a lower dose methylphenidate and take it long term. I personally think that elevating dopamine slightly and consistently will cause long term changes in they way we respond to things. I do not think it is a good idea to expect too much from stims and the initial euphoria may have staved off the SA for a while but I don't think that is where the most benefit from DRI's will come from. I think the long game is the one that will prove most fruitful.


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

jonny neurotic said:


> barry1685 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been doing some serious reading about Ritalin. Ritalin works for me best when initially taken, but daily use it loses it's effectiveness. But that doesn't make sense to me at all as it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor? How is it possible that the initial dose cures my SA but the therapeutic dose doesn't? To be fair, the longest I tried Ritalin was a week and also max dose was 10mg/5mg x2 daily. I respond better to Ritalin than adderall. It seems that I respond differently than most of the SA'ers on this site. Are there any meds I should check out that are similar to the dopamine reuptake like Ritalin?
> ...


I don't understand why it works initially and stops working after. Makes me think it's useless long term.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah it seem's like you take it more then one dose a day it throw your brain outta wack, but taking it every other day might make it work more consistently, feeling tired today after taking ritilin cleaned my whole house, amp's are way too addictive and cause too much crash and burn basically there the same as mdma but what were getting is the one's that work on dopamine and adrenaline, if you injected them they be just like taking meth, but were getting the nerf down version so they don't cross the brain blood barrier easy enough


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

GotAnxiety said:


> Yeah it seem's like you take it more then one dose a day it throw your brain outta wack, but taking it every other day might make it work more consistently, feeling tired today after taking ritilin cleaned my whole house, amp's are way too addictive and cause too much crash and burn basically there the same as mdma but what were getting is the one's that work on dopamine and adrenaline, if you injected them they be just like taking meth, but were getting the nerf down version so they don't cross the brain blood barrier easy enough


I can only take Ritalin once a week tops without building tolerance super fast


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah even if i take a 2nd dose i get lot's of neck tension head pressure get angry in a mood one dose is tolerable but not everyday or it would make me bumb out,


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

barry1685 said:


> I don't understand why it works initially and stops working after. Makes me think it's useless long term.


Because initially you get an excess of dopamine that boosts your confidence but then the receptors downregulate in response to this and the drug is no longer as effective but now when it wears off you have less dopaminergic activity.

Now, if you cut the dose down so that you barely feel it and take it consistently you will have generally elevated dopamien levels without peaks and troughs. My hypothesis(and it is just a hypothesis ATM) is that this will, over time, change the way your brain processes things. I have seen evidence for orbitofrontal lobe underactivity as a cause of SA and this may be due to a deficiency in the dopaminergic system in this part of the brain in the same way that ADHD is caused by dopaminergic dysfunction in the prefrontal lobes.

IDK, this is just my take on it thus far but I am still developing my understanding of it...


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

barry1685 said:


> also max dose was 10mg/5mg x2 daily


I don't think this is the best dosing strategy. If you can get a timed release version and go with a low dose for now to see what happens. Maybe have some benzo's or something on hand for when you absolutely need to kill the SA for a while and take the methylphenidate long term.


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## Gjoevik (Feb 13, 2010)

Ritalin is not very consistent in my experience. Sometimes it makes me super confident, other it times it makes me a nervous wreck around people.


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

Are we talking about MPH for SA or ADD here?
Cause if the downregulation stuff is really true then all ADD people should experience the same. MPH would work on day 1 and no longer on day 2. Is that really so? I have been to ADD forums and haven't really heard this.


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## Kingofallmedia (Feb 16, 2012)

Say NO to Ritalin.

Though I haven't had it for a couple of years, my teeth still easily crack or split because of Ritalin and Adderrall.

A filling just came out last nice eating softish broccoli!

Avoid those meds unless u like the dentist!


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## baranok (Nov 17, 2011)

tell me that, had bloody teeth everytime i brushed 'em, hopefully it got better 

@norad:
they feel different when you have ADD, and their stimulatory effect lasts longer in longterm. I mean, mood lift will fall off quickly but it still will kick you and that is perhaps what you need for ADD, dunno if i have ADD i had personally weird outcome from amps.
But for SAers it isnt that much of winning because they want that mood lift...


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

That's just great. People complain I worry too much and now I read that MPH causes your teeth to crack. I already have problems with my teeth and a receeding gumline! Oh my, what do I do now? 
I also have to wear a mouthpiece at night cause I gnash with my teeth. It's just awful.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Kingofallmedia said:


> Say NO to Ritalin.
> 
> Though I haven't had it for a couple of years, my teeth still easily crack or split because of Ritalin and Adderrall.
> 
> ...





norad said:


> That's just great. People complain I worry too much and now I read that MPH causes your teeth to crack. I already have problems with my teeth and a receeding gumline! Oh my, what do I do now?
> I also have to wear a mouthpiece at night cause I gnash with my teeth. It's just awful.


How much of these things were you taking at any one time and how often?

In the kind of dosing range these drugs are normally taken on a daily basis, provided you look after your teeth_(ie. floss and brush twice a day; on waking and right before bed)_ and have an adequate supply of minerals_(mainly calcium and magnesium but molebdynum and a few others are important for healthy teeth and bones too),_ then there should be no problem with your teeth. Only meth addicts and the like who are taking massive quantities of stimulants and not looking after themselves get messed up teeth.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

baranok said:


> they feel different when you have ADD, and their stimulatory effect lasts longer in longterm. I mean, mood lift will fall off quickly but it still will kick you and that is perhaps what you need for ADD, dunno if i have ADD i had personally weird outcome from amps.
> But for SAers it isnt that much of winning because they want that mood lift...


Yes and I think that the initial euphoria from a reasonably high dose is not what the therapy is about. If the problem is that the D2 receptor either doesn't bind dopamine properly or that there are insufficient numbers of them, then raising dopamine slightly will redress the balance. If one has had a lot of particularly bad experiences then it may take longer_(and possibly more meds, IDK) _for them to over come their fears. No drug will do that for you so therapy is a must_(which ever for that may take).
_
Benzo's, opioids, alpha adrenergic agonists, etc. may be usefull in killing fear for a while but my belief is that only a low dose DRI everyday long term will make any real difference. Releasers like amps are fine for ADHD because the D4 receptor doesn't downregulate and downregulation of the D1 receptor facilitates learning. Downregulation of the D2 receptor wont really make much odds to the average ADDer and some of them need the extra kick that amp's provide. For SA however, I believe that DRI's are best because dopamine levels will still fluctuate more and this will prevent too much downregulation from occuring, and if the dose is kept low enough, I believe that downregulation can even be prevented altogether.

I will continue to work on this hypothesis but I think that this is the picture that is starting to appear when I put the pieces, I have obtained so far, into place.


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

I am trying to understand this. Why should it ruin your teeth? Does the drug itself have a direct effect upon the teeth or is it due to grinding or not taking care of the teeth? I read that Charlie Sheen lost his teeth, that's scary.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=174018



> These findings suggest that generalized social phobia may be associated with low D2 receptor binding potential in the striatum. Low D2 receptor binding potential would be consistent with the findings of low dopamine system activity in social phobia.


As I said;


> If the problem is that the D2 receptor either doesn't bind dopamine properly or that there are insufficient numbers of them, then raising dopamine slightly will redress the balance. If one has had a lot of particularly bad experiences then it may take longer_(and possibly more meds, IDK) _for them to over come their fears.


I don't think the initial euphoria from dopaminergics is, as they say, where it's at. I think that the long game will prove more beneficial...


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

A lot of the stuff here being said goes way over my head, so I guess I'll ask a question I've been wondering about for a while. How do you know if you're addicted to adderall? I take 60mg-80mg of Adderall every day (20mg 3 or 4 times a day), but I never have more than 30mg at once, I have no problem taking a day or a weekend off (no withdrawal), and don't have cravings for it.

I remember the euphoric feeling the first few times I took it, but haven't felt it since and don't actively seek it. This is how I came to the conclusion that I'm not addicted (paranoid me worried about that for a while); if I wasn't continuously upping my dose to get high, I won't become addicted. How do I know for sure though?

My doctor thinks I have ADHD, but I'm not so sure. The adderall subtly makes me feel better (the dopamine I guess) and subtly makes it easier for me to concentrate. Doesn't really make me more pro-social though.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

barry1685 said:


> I don't understand why it works initially and stops working after. Makes me think it's useless long term.


Tolerance to stims can be prevented with memantine.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

norad said:


> Are we talking about MPH for SA or ADD here?
> Cause if the downregulation stuff is really true then all ADD people should experience the same. MPH would work on day 1 and no longer on day 2. Is that really so? I have been to ADD forums and haven't really heard this.


D4 causes the therapeutic effects for ADHD wich is a receptor that doesnt downregulate; D2 and D3 are the receptors mainly involved in social behavor.


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

crayzyMed said:


> norad said:
> 
> 
> > Are we talking about MPH for SA or ADD here?
> ...


Can the d2 and d3 down regulate?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

barry1685 said:


> Can the d2 and d3 down regulate?


Yes thats why stims need to be combined with memantine.


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