# Using Testosterone Gel for Low Sex Drive and Energy



## Molly The Fox Cat (Feb 2, 2012)

Hello, I've been rubbing Testim gel (testosterone) since the beginning of January 2012 and thought I would share my experience.

I'd also like to say that I've been on various medications for chronic back pain and depression. These medications have lowered my testosterone levels to a very low point and drove me to seek out a testosterone blood test. Even before the pain and medications, I've been low-energy, calm, and not very macho at all. Sex drive was very low even during my teens.

So I had my testosterone levels checked twice before the Testim treatment. The first test yielded a level of 67 ng/dL (nanograms per deciliter), and the second 81 ng/dL. The normal range for men is between 300 ng/dL and 1200 ng/dL. I haven't had them checked since I commenced using Testim, being that I'm only at the 1 month point. I'm scheduled for a retest at the 2 month period.

After 2 1/2 weeks my social anxiety was almost non-existent and sex drive was at a peak. It was stronger than at any period in my life. I also had increased energy, less chronic pain, and clearer thoughts. On the downside my anger levels were up, and the littlest things agitated me. At 3 1/2 to 4 weeks (date of this post) I returned to pre-Testim levels, and no longer experience lowered social anxiety and increased sex drive. Why the benefits have gone away is a mystery. For now I'm happy there was a reaction, and need to be patient and allow the gel to do its work. Feel free to message me or post a reply if you have any questions.

Later,
MTFC


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Interesting. Could it have been too much? You might have had a minor "roid rage" thing going there :afr.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

OH NO! The 72-year-old man in a 45 year old body is back! :mum :lol


----------



## Molly The Fox Cat (Feb 2, 2012)

millenniumman75 said:


> Interesting. Could it have been too much? You might have had a minor "roid rage" thing going there :afr.


I may have had roid rage during that period because I was told by my doc to increase the dosage from one tube to two! My body just seems to tolerate medications very well.


----------



## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm not sure about your case because you're taking medicine that lowered your testosterone. What I learned in class (human sexuality-bio) last semester is that your body will start producing less of its own testosterone if you take steroids. I think it's called negative-feedback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis#Negative_feedback

Negative feedback mechanisms consist of reducing the output or activity of any organ or system back to its normal range of functioning.

A negative feedback in the body is where a change the level of one chemical leads directly to a reduction in its formation, reduction in its absorption or increase in its excretion.


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

Yes any use of exogenous testosterone is going to shut down natural production but he wasn't producing much in the first place. Look up 'HPTA shutdown'. 

OP is your doctor a TRT specialist or just an endo or GP? Apparently there are a lot of 'specialists' who don't understand TRT. I hope you're doing your own research and not taking everything your doc says as gospel. I don't know too much at the moment so can't tell you why you're levels dropped down so low again. Maybe a higher dosage or a different method of administration such as injections would work better.

Whats the cause of your low test, if you know? Primary or secondary hypogonadism?


----------



## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

komorikun said:


> your body will start producing less of its own testosterone if you take steroids. I think it's called negative-feedback.


i was just getting ready to say i heard about the topical cream doing that.


----------



## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

i believe strongly in living in accordance to our biology. often its when we dont do so that problems occur. with testosterone i read that one of the ways to increase it was to work along with your bodies natural way of creating it. iam not an expert in hormones so nobody jump on my back. a few years back i tried out a workout supplement called gamma o which i heard was horrible in its effectiveness. but i a company came along after creating a version of it thats suitable for humans,since it was used mostly for putting muscle mass on horses. i heard mixed reviews on it. the people who worked out back in the early 90's when it was first introduced in pill form saying it was a waste of money. then on the other side people preaching about its effectivness in a new liquid better absorbed state. its just called gamma o. i buy my supplements from this place.

http://www.a1supplements.com/Gamma-O...s-p-16572.html

as one to at least try something out instead of listening to negative reviews i tried it out. they make two versions of it. one for athletes and one for people who dont workout. i dont know about the pill form of it. i only took the liquid version. it takes about 30 days before you can feel anything. i only tried it out for a month but always meant to go at it for a longer period then get my test readings. i might start this up again soon maybe this month. all i can say is at towards the end of that first month i had alot of energy and i broke guinness records in personnel "me time" spent during a day.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

The OP was obviously on opioids, the drug class that all the idiots on this forum seem to adore. All opioids utterly DESTROY androgen levels, as they did in myself as well. Now I have to take injections of Testosterone and they really make anger hard to control, especially with BPD. But my low levels are causing extreme fatigue, mood swings, depression, anxiety, pain, hot flashes, thermoregulation problems, etc.


----------



## Molly The Fox Cat (Feb 2, 2012)

ForeverStallone said:


> Yes any use of exogenous testosterone is going to shut down natural production but he wasn't producing much in the first place. Look up 'HPTA shutdown'.
> 
> OP is your doctor a TRT specialist or just an endo or GP? Apparently there are a lot of 'specialists' who don't understand TRT. I hope you're doing your own research and not taking everything your doc says as gospel. I don't know too much at the moment so can't tell you why you're levels dropped down so low again. Maybe a higher dosage or a different method of administration such as injections would work better.
> 
> Whats the cause of your low test, if you know? Primary or secondary hypogonadism?


Hi Stallone, yes I understand that T gels lower the body's production of its own natural testosterone. What I don't get is the pituitary gland's function, leutinizing hormone, and Leydig cell's function. If the pituitary gland is fine, then it must be the brain not sending those signals.

My Testim prescribing doc is a urologist, and I've been visiting him for 5 or more years. The medication most likely affecting my testosterone production is morphine that I take for chronic pain. Lately my feet have been painful to walk on and standing is difficult due to weakness in both legs. Its possible the morphine is causing these symptoms and I may ask to lower that medication.

Update: My doctor's office called me to say he prescribed Clomid (Clomiphene), and to pick it up at the pharmacy. This is only the 2nd day I'm on it. It's supposed to block estrogen at the pituitary gland, then the gland sees that the body needs more lutenizing hormone which makes the Leydig cell in the testis make more testosterone. Last visit he said he would try injections if he doesn't see significant results.

Later,
MTFC


----------



## Molly The Fox Cat (Feb 2, 2012)

Dr House said:


> The OP was obviously on opioids, the drug class that all the idiots on this forum seem to adore. All opioids utterly DESTROY androgen levels, as they did in myself as well. Now I have to take injections of Testosterone and they really make anger hard to control, especially with BPD. But my low levels are causing extreme fatigue, mood swings, depression, anxiety, pain, hot flashes, thermoregulation problems, etc.


Yes, I'm on morphine, but the type that is introduced into the intrathecal space of the spine. There are less side effects as the body doesn't deal with them as much as the pill. Nonetheless, the medicine has lowered my libido to an almost nonexistent state.

I've read in other posts that men with low to normal T levels use the gel or injections to get into the mid to upper T levels. But what happens when you stop using it? Do the levels fall down to your natural state?

Thanks,
MTFC


----------



## borbiusle (Sep 26, 2009)

A bodybuilding forum and/or an experienced endocronologist would be a good sources to ask about T-supplementation and any complications you're running into. There is the very likely possibility that the testosterone you're injecting is being converted into estradiol(a process called Aromatization), a potent female hormone that can easily nullify/reverse any perks you get from the extra testosterone in your system.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Molly The Fox Cat said:


> Hi Stallone, yes I understand that T gels lower the body's production of its own natural testosterone. What I don't get is the pituitary gland's function, leutinizing hormone, and Leydig cell's function. If the pituitary gland is fine, then it must be the brain not sending those signals.
> 
> My Testim prescribing doc is a urologist, and I've been visiting him for 5 or more years. The medication most likely affecting my testosterone production is morphine that I take for chronic pain. Lately my feet have been painful to walk on and standing is difficult due to weakness in both legs. Its possible the morphine is causing these symptoms and I may ask to lower that medication.
> 
> ...


You see opioids are such absolute failures at controlling pain on a long-term basis by not just what I mentioned before, but by another syndrome "opioid hyperalgesia" which the pain medication itself increases the body's sensitivity to pain over time thus INCREASING your pain!(most likely due to it f'ing with your hormone levels I suspect)

Also tolerance to the analgesic effects of an opioid increases at a rate slightly faster than the tolerance to that of the unpleasant side effects. Thus as you increase your dose overtime to compensate for the decreased amount of pain killing action brought upon by tolerance, you actually increase your amount of side effects, a couple mainly being drowsiness and dsyphoria. Joy!

Of course these medications are great for those in pain and usually not expected to live long enough to feel the long-term effects of this class of medications, such as the elderly or those with cancer.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Oh I managed to get this supplement called 'ALL MAX ZMA', which contains some zinc, magnesium and B6 at a 30:450:10.5mg ratio respectively

And some other stuff called 'FORTA' with some lengthy ingredient list of herbs that I don't really care to type out.

Both supposedly help with freeing up testosterone in the body.


----------



## belfort (May 3, 2009)

yeah opiods butchered my sex drive and increased back and other body pain when i used them.to top it all off they are miserable to get off of so thats another plus..lol..

my sex drive is very low even after years being clean from opiods..my test levels are normal so i dunno wtf is going on..


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

Molly The Fox Cat said:


> Hi Stallone, yes I understand that T gels lower the body's production of its own natural testosterone. *What I don't get is the pituitary gland's function, leutinizing hormone, and Leydig cell's function. If the pituitary gland is fine, then it must be the brain not sending those signals.*
> 
> My Testim prescribing doc is a urologist, and I've been visiting him for 5 or more years. The medication most likely affecting my testosterone production is morphine that I take for chronic pain. Lately my feet have been painful to walk on and standing is difficult due to weakness in both legs. Its possible the morphine is causing these symptoms and I may ask to lower that medication.
> 
> ...


The pituitary gland sends signals (LH/FSH) to the testicles to produce testosterone and sperm. LH stimulates Leydig cell production which is a pre cursor to testosterone. If there's nothing wrong with the pituitary gland then it means the hypothalamus isn't sending signals (GnRH) to the pituitary.

From what I've read of clomid, it will raise your test but it's possible that your estrogen will go up too since testosterone gets converted to estrogen. I'd ask your doc about that and look into an Aromatase Inhibitor. I still have to look into this more though, I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway here's some reading for you
http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/28/how-clomid-works-in-men/

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77768-low-testosterone-clomid.html scroll down to the studies posted

http://www.ergo-log.com/clomidendur.html



Molly The Fox Cat said:


> Yes, I'm on morphine, but the type that is introduced into the intrathecal space of the spine. There are less side effects as the body doesn't deal with them as much as the pill. Nonetheless, the medicine has lowered my libido to an almost nonexistent state.
> 
> I've read in other posts that men with low to normal T levels use the gel or injections to get into the mid to upper T levels. But what happens when you stop using it? Do the levels fall down to your natural state?
> 
> ...


Levels will drop back down to what you were producing that's why HRT/TRT is for life. They might drop even lower but I think that's if you were to do heavy bodybuilding style cycling.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Molly The Fox Cat said:


> Hi Stallone, yes I understand that T gels lower the body's production of its own natural testosterone. What I don't get is the pituitary gland's function, leutinizing hormone, and Leydig cell's function. If the pituitary gland is fine, then it must be the brain not sending those signals.
> 
> My Testim prescribing doc is a urologist, and I've been visiting him for 5 or more years. The medication most likely affecting my testosterone production is morphine that I take for chronic pain. Lately my feet have been painful to walk on and standing is difficult due to weakness in both legs. Its possible the morphine is causing these symptoms and I may ask to lower that medication.
> 
> ...


Maybe your hypothalamus isn't sending the right stimulating hormones to your pituitary gland, without them, your pituitary gland ain't gonna send anything to your testes.


----------



## Petrovsk Mizinski (Nov 29, 2011)

Holy crap OP, those are literally THE lowest test levels I've seen to date by someone that has posted numbers. Surprised you can even get out of bed in the morning with levels that low, christ.

I always lol at this "The normal range for men is between 300 ng/dL and 1200 ng/dL"
I've never understood why 300 was considered 'normal'. Even that is pretty goddamn low and would cause most males to feel like complete crap. Really retarded standards.
Anything under about 450ng/dl is getting on the low side to my thinking.


----------



## Petrovsk Mizinski (Nov 29, 2011)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> i believe strongly in living in accordance to our biology. often its when we dont do so that problems occur. with testosterone i read that one of the ways to increase it was to work along with your bodies natural way of creating it. iam not an expert in hormones so nobody jump on my back. a few years back i tried out a workout supplement called gamma o which i heard was horrible in its effectiveness. but i a company came along after creating a version of it thats suitable for humans,since it was used mostly for putting muscle mass on horses. i heard mixed reviews on it. the people who worked out back in the early  90's when it was first introduced in pill form saying it was a waste of money. then on the other side people preaching about its effectivness in a new liquid better absorbed state. its just called gamma o. i buy my supplements from this place.
> 
> http://www.a1supplements.com/Gamma-O...s-p-16572.html


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140953801

Read up son before you piss away even more of your money into the toilet.
Not only was the old version crap, but even this new version has a TERRIBLE ingredient profile. 
It would have the same effect as getting your money and flushing it dollar by dollar down the toilet.



borbiusle said:


> A bodybuilding forum and/or an experienced endocronologist would be a good sources to ask about T-supplementation and any complications you're running into. There is the very likely possibility that the testosterone you're injecting is being converted into estradiol(a process called Aromatization), a potent female hormone that can easily nullify/reverse any perks you get from the extra testosterone in your system.


The majority of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) and Pro-Hormones (PH) will cause aromatization, yes.
It's unfortunate that some of the most effective compounds for strength/fat loss/well being etc that wont aromatase (Anavar, for e.g) can't be used in the long term due to toxicity in the liver (although that can be reduced with some supplements)



Dr House said:


> Oh I managed to get this supplement called 'ALL MAX ZMA', which contains some zinc, magnesium and B6 at a 30:450:10.5mg ratio respectively
> 
> And some other stuff called 'FORTA' with some lengthy ingredient list of herbs that I don't really care to type out.
> 
> Both supposedly help with freeing up testosterone in the body.


ZMA will do precisely nothing for test levels if you're not zinc and/or magnesium deficient.
It's pretty much just overpriced Zinc, Magnesium and B6 that was for years marketed as a 'test booster'.
Of course, it's optimal to keep Zinc and Mag levels high, but it's cheaper to just buy them separately which is what I tend to do.


----------



## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

any suggestions on another product to look at? my main goal is just to optimize things as much as possible. not illegally or dangerous however.


----------



## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

From what I've read of clomid, it will raise your test but it's possible that your estrogen will go up too since testosterone gets converted to estrogen. I'd ask your doc about that and look into an Aromatase Inhibitor. I still have to look into this more though, I'm not 100% sure.


I've heard the same thing about Clomid. Some people actually use it to boost testosterone but are warned that it may also raise estrogen, therefore, I'm not real sure why it would be prescribed to keep estrogen at bay. I too think you might be better off replacing it with an Aromatase Inhibitor, if you are in fact are using it to keep estrogen in check. Also, I've heard your results with gels are unfortunately typical, from what I've read injections seem to be the most reliable form for producing stable and lasting testosterone levels (usually once a week) and therefore offer the most stable feelings of well being !! Which is a big plus


----------



## Petrovsk Mizinski (Nov 29, 2011)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> any suggestions on another product to look at? my main goal is just to optimize things as much as possible. not illegally or dangerous however.


Sorry, forgot about this thread heh.
Steroids aren't really dangerous though. The dangers have been VASTLY overblown by the media and the sheepish general public tends to believe most of it unfortunately.

But anyway, here's a good list of stuff that's actually legit :

Driven Sports Triazole
Driven Sports Activate Xtreme
PES Erase
D-aspartic Acid (DAA)

DAA raises estrogen too and also in longer cycles, prolactin.
DAA tends to work better if stacked with an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) supplement (PES Erase as mentioned above is an AI), since you get the advantage of increase test while keeping estrogen levels in check.
Triazole is also an AI, so you can use that with DAA.
None of these are going to boost test anywhere near as much as AAS or PH compounds will do, but because they're natural there is zero side effects and all muscle mass gains and fat loss while on a natural test booster/AI cycle will be kept because it all happens in an endogenous way, whereas with almost all steroidal compounds you can expect to lose almost all/possibly even all lean mass gains made on cycle


----------



## Petrovsk Mizinski (Nov 29, 2011)

While I'm here and seeing Clomid being bandied around, to be honest there isn't much of a reason to use steroidal AI compounds anymore.
Natural AI supps are a relatively recent development, hence many people don't know about them and still go the steroidal route of Clomid, Nolvadex etc.
Natural AI supps can be powerful enough to cause joint pain in some men because of their potency and more or less all the same symptoms of low E that can occur with too high dosages of steroidal AI compounds.


----------



## Molly The Fox Cat (Feb 2, 2012)

belfort said:


> yeah opiods butchered my sex drive and increased back and other body pain when i used them.to top it all off they are miserable to get off of so thats another plus..lol..
> 
> my sex drive is very low even after years being clean from opiods..my test levels are normal so i dunno wtf is going on..


Hi Belfort, have you had any blood tests lately? I would ask your GP to take some samples for evaluation.

MTFC


----------



## LowTDFW (Jul 6, 2012)

_"A sensible diet and regular exercise is a benefit to all ages. Studies have shown regular exercise increases muscle strength, flexibility, and endurance which can benefit anyone. Regular exercise and good nutrition can help fight depression and improve sleep quality." _However, it could be attributed to low levels of testosterone. You might consider TRT.

Andy


----------



## HughJ (Apr 30, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> OH NO! The 72-year-old man in a 45 year old body is back! :mum :lol


Cenegenics is an HRT program. I don't see the issue with turning back the clock when doing it under the supervision of a qualified physician. This isn't self-medicating and overdoing it.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

My levels of Testosterone were down to approximately 80 ng/dL last fall and only dropped lower I assume to an all time low around January this year before I became so ridiculously ill and had to go to the ER from exhaustion. This is all thanks to being on Opioids for the past 5.5 years for chronic pain. 

I have been taking 250mg of testosterone IM injections every 2.5 weeks now since late January. While it helps a lot, I still am nowhere near healthy, and basically spend about half of an average week, sick and bed ridden thanks to what opioids have done to my hormone levels. At least the depression is definitely lifting!


----------



## killerdude (Jul 19, 2012)

*Testim on Healthy Males*

I got a prescription for Testim and I am pretty healthy. I have hit a wall in the gym and I am 40 getting ready to go to a military school. So, I have been on testim for 3 weeks. First let me say, it has sent my workouts into over drive. I also havea sex drive like a monster now and not just ok sex but like giant throbbing boners in the morning again and wailing away like I was 20. I have in one month put on a solid 10lbs of upper torso muscle from using this in conjunction with my PT regimine....all that is good stuff I am pleased.

My concern is, is this unhealthy and will it shut of my testosterone? Can I take this a short period of time for 60 days...drop it after I go to my army school and resume normal 40 year old operations?? Or is this something I need to stop doing now....like I said I am amazed by this **** but do not want to use it if it is really bad.


----------



## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Why don't you try to increase your T level naturally. Start weight lifting, yoga, good diet and it will increase naturally.


----------



## killerdude (Jul 19, 2012)

I did, I weight lifted, took protein, ate balanced meals...ate pretty well. I am an excellent runner but have never been able to put on larger muscles until trying the testim. It is pretty impressive that 3 weeks in and it has had the affect it has....the only thing I changed was the testim...I run a 1255 2 mile..and 5 in under 40....I was looking for a little strength as I get ready to go to a very tough military course which I do not want to name on this forum and wanted to put on a little weight and muscle. HOw long can you use this stuff without it being bad for you?


----------



## jonmorris73 (May 24, 2012)

.


----------

