# Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo



## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. This piece of **** country getting worst by the day.

Guess we all have to go to starbucks & mcdonalds to download music now?

http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/major-isps-turn-into-copyright-police-by-july-says-riaa/


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## Jcgrey (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm lazy today. What is all of this about???


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Jcgrey said:


> I'm lazy today. What is all of this about???


Your internet company will report you to the government & RIAA if you download music illegally starting july 12th..So if you wan't any music you getter download it before the 12th of july or you'll go to jail or/and they'll cut off your internet service for good.

Basically illegal downloading is dead in the U.S next month.......Until someone finds a way around it.


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## KramersHalfSister (May 3, 2012)

It's starting already....


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## Ali477 (May 7, 2012)

They will never stop internet piracy people will always find a way around of goverment blocks.


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## Jcgrey (Feb 5, 2011)

To hell with this crap!


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Jcgrey said:


> I'm lazy today. What is all of this about???


ISPs will be monitoring people downloading things and we have six strikes. They will turn people into the RIAA.

I would think that this would have been news a long time ago if it was true. Of course, Obama's behind it - it may be the only control he thinks there is left. :lol

They need to stick to the possible cyberattcks thanks to White House convenient leaks first. :roll


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Hopefully they specifically target people who use torrents. Because I don't, lol.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Luke688 said:


> They will never stop internet piracy people will always find a way around of goverment blocks.


I know but it's going to take a while to get around. Maybe 3-4 months before another popular way to get around it.

This is horrible


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

Say whaaaaaa? No.. I still have tons of more music I want to download, I just don't have the time to do it! Come on American government, be cool


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

InfiniteBlaze said:


> Hopefully they specifically target people who use torrents. Because I don't, lol.


Anything that's copywrite...


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

FireIsTheCleanser said:


> Say whaaaaaa? No.. I still have tons of more music I want to download, I just don't have the time to do it! Come on American government, be cool


you still have a good month... Download like crazy lol


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Apple Needs to come out with a "Download all you want for $50 a year" plan for itunes ASAP.


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## Black And Mild (Apr 11, 2011)




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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

successful said:


> you still have a good month... Download like crazy lol


Damn, I don't have that much memory on my computer, but it's now or never. To the pirate bay! Hiyah!


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

Youtube still good then?


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

meganmila said:


> Youtube still good then?


Yeah i guess. But youtube don't have every song on it. 
+ the downloads comes out low quality from youtube.


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## Aphexfan (Jan 12, 2011)

This aint gonna do nothing to stop downloads just like everything else theyve done to try and crack down on piracy. But I still guess its slightly better then the RIAA and MPAA extorting and shaking people down for cash lol


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

successful said:


> Yeah i guess. But youtube don't have every song on it.
> + the downloads comes out low quality from youtube.


Not from my experience.


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## Neutrino (Apr 11, 2011)

.


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## Valentine (May 17, 2012)

As always, "Catch me if you can."


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## Perkins (Dec 14, 2010)

This is old news. At the time that was reported major ISPs signed up to monitor. 

A few of them being AT&T and Comcast. The rest escape me. And they start doing the dirty work on July 1st. 

I can't see this benefiting the RIAA nor the ISPs. You know they're gonna lose customers.

I suppose you could change ISPs to a more local one. One that isn't affiliated with the RIAA.


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## Pennywise (Aug 18, 2011)

Sounds like SOPA being pushed on us again. Give it a different name, but it's still the same thing.


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## Toppington (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't download music often, but I definitely don't get all of my stuff legally. Lots of horribly overpriced software and stuff. This is gonna suck.


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## AmericanZero (Apr 17, 2012)

Valentine said:


> As always, "Catch me if you can."


:yes

This is why I never seed anything . You know the primary targets will be the ones that are sharing all of their files with the rest of the world, with the ocassional "Sally got caught downloading 12 songs and now her grandma owes 90 billion dollars to the RIAA" thrown in to make everyone scared.

Run it all through a VPN or use an encrypted connection and they probably won't even bother wasting their time on you with all the easy targets out there.

EDIT:

Disclaimer: I am merely stating alternative options (information) and do not encourage, in any way, the use of the aforementioned strategies to engage in illegal file sharing, nor does the phrase "I never seed anything" prove that any of the files I have leeched were copyrighted.


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## flarf (May 13, 2010)

aw crap! wait, what about porn?


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

iwearshirts said:


> aw crap! wait, what about porn?


I don't think that will go down with it, but if it does, there's always amateur porn.


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## lkkxm (Apr 11, 2012)

Remember when there was a little bit of freedom on the internet, right or wrong? Ah, the good ol' days.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

so iam guessing that bill that everyone didnt want to get passed did huh?


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

:eek Please tell me this isn't true... 

anyone know if this will affect Canada? They can't possibly do this. Everyone downloads music off the internet. What, are they gonna put the entire U.S. population in jail? :lol

**** outta here with that nonsense.


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## Perkins (Dec 14, 2010)

Don't worry, as of now it's mainly a US issue. I believe they're also testing this out on other countries as well. England being one, I think, but I'm not 100 percent on that one.


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## cybernaut (Jul 30, 2010)

InfiniteBlaze said:


> Hopefully they specifically target people who use torrents. Because I don't, lol.


, guess I might need to watch out then lol. I haven't downloaded torrents in a while though.

Well, if they're really gonna start enforcing and being more serious abuout this, then I guess I'll spend this last month racking up on a few things lol.


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## TheTruthIsOutThere (Apr 10, 2012)

God what a bunch of ****s.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

ravenm721 said:


> , guess I might need to watch out then lol. I haven't downloaded torrents in a while though.
> 
> Well, if they're really gonna start enforcing and being more serious abuout this, then I guess I'll spend this last month racking up on a few things lol.


we should start getting out the proper attire to visit the final resting place of demonoid


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## falling down (Oct 17, 2011)

This is pretty gaytarded, only in America right?



InfiniteBlaze said:


> Hopefully they specifically target people who use torrents. Because I don't, lol.


Youtube rips?


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

falling down said:


> This is pretty gaytarded, only in America right?
> 
> Youtube rips?


youtube rips suck and filesharing is dead

torrents >


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

iwearshirts said:


> aw crap! wait, what about porn?


I thought most people just watched that stuff on the internet. I mean really, who actually still downloads porn? Wouldn't you get a sh*tload of viruses?


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## crystaltears (Mar 10, 2011)

glad I don't live in the US :lol


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## CrysCringle (Mar 31, 2012)

no waaai. I don't illegally download anyway.


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## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

Afaik, ISPs have been "getting after" people who illegally download for years. By that I mean dragging their feet on the issue as much as possible. They have no interest whatsoever in upsetting their customers. 

Until I actually see anything come from this, I can't imagine it being anything more than a scare tactic.


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## Ventura (May 5, 2009)

But sharing is caring


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## B l o s s o m (Mar 18, 2012)

Ventura said:


> But sharing is caring


:agree


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## i just want luv (Feb 13, 2011)

This good news for artists and can be good for the ear crowd aswell.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

it's true what they say. The best things in life are free


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

This kind of thing was all they ever had to do.

Remember when we all found out that major telecoms had been cooperating with the Bush administration to spy on people without warrants? Remember when it was reported that they'd been granted retroactive immunity (With Obama's full blessing, as I recall) for same?

Most people just brushed it off with a "I'm not doing anything wrong so I have nothing to worry about".

Oh really?


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Charizard said:


> Until I actually see anything come from this, I can't imagine it being anything more than a scare tactic.


 Well for me, I can't afford to fight a legal battle if it turns out they aren't playing around this time so I'll have to sit on the sidelines and wait and see what happens.


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## 50piecesteve (Feb 28, 2012)

:bah dammit


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## fonz (Oct 15, 2008)

They already do this here,don't worry about it. There's always ways around it - it is possible to make it look like you're in another country


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> Your internet company will report you to the government & RIAA if you download music illegally starting july 12th..So if you wan't any music you getter download it before the 12th of july or you'll go to jail or/and they'll cut off your internet service for good.
> 
> Basically illegal downloading is dead in the U.S next month.......Until someone finds a way around it.


Good.

I'm really not sure why piracy and stealing on the internet is seen as ok, even a right.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Ventura said:


> But sharing is caring


What about stealing?


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## kismetie (May 20, 2012)

seriously? that blows major ***.
smh.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> So if you wan't any music you getter download it before the 12th of july or you'll go to jail or/and they'll cut off your internet service for good.


OR you could *BUY *it. Shock horror! What's the world coming to when you have to PAY for something that someone else made and put time, effort, energy and expense into! I demand people supply me with stuff for free!


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Good.
> 
> I'm really not sure why piracy and stealing on the internet is seen as ok, even a right.


 Maybe because people have a hard time with the idea that copying an album is stealing. I know the law but this is what people see.

I don't know how old you are but I spent many hours of my childhood copying songs off the radio onto cassette tapes and movies off of TV onto VHS tapes. The only difference was that back then, they had no way of knowing it was happening. Well, of course they knew it was happening but they couldn't track you down and punish you for it because they didn't know who was doing it.

I did then and always have bought the albums I really liked by the bands and artists I was really interested in. Had I known in my youth that I was helping to finance (in a small way) an industry that would someday be responsible for this sort of thing, I would have never bought a single album or movie.

I understand the concept of intellectual property just fine. I just don't think it can justify this.


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## T-Bone (Oct 1, 2010)

I hope the big ISPs go broke when people have no need for the net and get rid of it. Seems like a jackass move on their part.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

SomebodyWakeME said:


> I hope the big ISPs go broke when people have no need for the net and get rid of it. Seems like a jackass move on their part.


 Unfortunately, I don't see this happening. Though maybe it's possible someday the ISPs will be unnecessary.


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## Aphexfan (Jan 12, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Good.
> 
> I'm really not sure why piracy and stealing on the internet is seen as ok, even a right.


Sorry but this has nothing to do with stopping piracy and everything to do with keeping a dying business model afloat. Piracy is a problem but spying on what you do is complete rubbish. If they cared about piracy then they would make their content readily available to the masses instead of restricting access to it.


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## T-Bone (Oct 1, 2010)

Aphexfan said:


> Sorry but this has nothing to do with stopping piracy and everything to do with keeping a dying business model afloat. Piracy is a problem but spying on what you do is complete rubbish. If they cared about piracy then they would make their content readily available to the masses instead of restricting access to it.


Yep it's totally illegal that they're gonna do this. I guess they think the best way to fight crime is with more crime.


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## Reclus (Jan 11, 2012)

Well 21st century kids; it's time to go back to the 80s: cassette tape trading anyone? :evil


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

They have another thing coming if they think this is going to make me buy music. They might be able to intimidate me into not "stealing" their crap but I will never buy it again either.

Anyway, for any of you who are still in denial about Obama, maybe this is a wakeup call? This man is just as bad as Bush.


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

well...this sucks.

do we know which ISPs will be participating?

actually, pretty sure some ISPs were already doing this (or something like it) but I knew someone who got like 10 notices about his downloading and nothing ever came of it. unless they're going to be getting more strict now?


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## LordScott (Apr 9, 2012)

I guess i will be downloading from the library computers now...


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Good.
> 
> I'm really not sure why piracy and stealing on the internet is seen as ok, even a right.


lol no....Have fun buying your whole music/music collection then. :blank

You're free to offer to buy everyone else music since you think it's soo horrible too. We all wan't $2,000 worth of Itunes cards. You'll be putting your money towards a good cause, like Making the rich richer. :lol


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> Have fun buying your whole music/music collection then. :blank


I have. Why is paying for it such a strange concept?


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> I have. Why is paying for it such a strange concept?


Because it's not 1995 anymore.. People don't buy every album they want anymore, Just albums that's worth it/they want physically. Music Artist even admit they download illegally. Hell Even huge artist like Lil Wayne post a link & told fans to download his albums illegally 1 week before it even hit the stores if they didn't want to buy it....& still sold 1 million copies in a week. So i don't see a problem with it. Most people don't.

If you make a Interesting album, It will sell.


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## Ventura (May 5, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> What about stealing?


Stealing imo would be selling it and making money off it.

I don't see the differences between buying and watching a movie 5,000 times, or letting 5,000 people watch it with you.


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## LordScott (Apr 9, 2012)

Ventura said:


> Stealing imo would be selling it and making money off it.
> 
> I don't see the differences between buying and watching a movie 5,000 times, or letting 5,000 people watch it with you.


you rock


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## Perkins (Dec 14, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> I have. Why is paying for it such a strange concept?


Because not everyone can afford to buy albums and DVDs, especially when millions of us are struggling financially as it is in this economy. The ridiculous prices doesn't help either. Also what's the point in buying an album when I only like 1-3 songs on it? At least with downloading/streaming it allows me to have a verdict before I take a gamble with my money by buying it without ever knowing what to expect.



Ventura said:


> Stealing imo would be selling it and making money off it.
> 
> I don't see the differences between buying and watching a movie 5,000 times, or letting 5,000 people watch it with you.


Precisely. Stealing _physically deprives_ a rightful owner of his or her property. Once you take it, you have it and they do not. Taking a DVD from a store means that the physical object is no longer in the store; it cannot be sold. That particular DVD cost money to manufacture, and its theft constitutes a net loss.

When you make an unauthorized copy, none of the above features of 'stealing' are present. You are not physically depriving someone of their property. A copy is just that: a _copy_. Once you copy it, you have it and so does the source. This is why copyright infringement, in law, is _never called stealing_. That equivalence is made by the content industry to make the 'crime' seem more serious than it is. The fact is: not every download is a lost sale. Some download after watching in theaters; some download but never would have paid for it.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Urgh. There's so much wrong with almost every post, especially in replies to mine, that's it's really not worth the time typing. You can justify anything if it's what you want. All I see here are a bunch of low-life, selfish people assuming they have the right simply because they want it.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> Because it's not 1995 anymore.. People don't buy every album they want anymore, Just albums that's worth it/they want physically. Music Artist even admit they download illegally. Hell Even huge artist like Lil Wayne post a link & told fans to download his albums illegally 1 week before it even hit the stores if they didn't want to buy it....& still sold 1 million copies in a week. So i don't see a problem with it. Most people don't.
> 
> If you make a Interesting album, It will sell.


Tell that to the scores of sound engineers, duplication houses, musicians (not the big league but in the other 99%), independant music stores and the rest that have gone out of business or lost their jobs.


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## Polar (Dec 16, 2006)

How can they even enforce it? The article says web traffic. A torrent file can be downloaded from the web, but that file does not contain any copyrighted materials itself. It gives "pointers" to peers where you can download chunks of data from making the overall file. Torrent is a different protocol than the web/http, so what are they gonna go by? File names? Even if a file name was say, some movie title, that does not prove anything that the actual torrent data is what the title represents. ISPs would have to investigate each and every single torrent file to find this out, which would be too much of a hassle for them, and I figure this whole thing will turn out to nothing.

Ps. You've always got Grooveshark for songs.


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

Umm, all you have to do is use an encryption options, that most of the torrent sites already offer anyway. I don't see this as a big deal.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Urgh. There's so much wrong with almost every post, especially in replies to mine, that's it's really not worth the time typing. You can justify anything if it's what you want. All I see here are a bunch of low-life, selfish people assuming they have the right simply because they want it.


How about you keep spening hundreds of dollars buying all your music and stop worry about what other people do with their internet time & Money? That sounds like a good solution...No reason to Disrespect & call people who download Low Life, Some of us have enough common sense (Also a lack of money) not to not buy every single album & song we want to listen to and go broke.

Like i said, If artist make albums people want to hear. People will still support it. Stop acting like Artist & producers aren't still making huge bank on album sales. & Music stores went out of business because of Itunes, Ipods, & Amazon if anything......A legal music business.

Should we stop apple & amazon too?


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## Alidai (May 19, 2012)

It's a very unrealistic concept, who will admin the whole reporting thing? One person can't report millions of users.
And then there's the issue of potentially losing customers...
I don't think this will work, yet another fail...


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## Alidai (May 19, 2012)

Selbbin said:


> Urgh. There's so much wrong with almost every post, especially in replies to mine, that's it's really not worth the time typing. You can justify anything if it's what you want. All I see here are a bunch of low-life, selfish people assuming they have the right simply because they want it.


Forum = Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Don't bash them for stating theirs


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## kismetie (May 20, 2012)

Selbbin said:


> Urgh. There's so much wrong with almost every post, especially in replies to mine, that's it's really not worth the time typing. You can justify anything if it's what you want. All I see here are a bunch of low-life, selfish people assuming they have the right simply because they want it.


wow, ouch. Big generalization don't you think? Didn't know I was a low-life, selfish person just because I get my music for free. Cool, you like to actually BUY your music, it just so happens some of us would rather get it for free. I'm not knockin' ya because you like to pay. But seriously after losing all the music I bought off of iTunes and imported from CD's (because I have rotten luck with keeping them unscratched) when my computer crashed, I lost easily over a thousand dollars worth of music. If I'm going to be considered a low-life just because I don't want something like that to happen again then so be it.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

kismetie said:


> wow, ouch. Big generalization don't you think? Didn't know I was a low-life, selfish person just because I get my music for free.


Well, yes, if it's _illegal pirating _because you selfishly believe you have the right to take what you want simply because you want it, you are.

It's not hard to look after discs.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Alidai said:


> Forum = Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
> 
> Don't bash them for stating theirs


Yes, and your point? Did you read _any _of the replies to _my _posts?


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> People will still support it. Stop acting like Artist & producers aren't still making huge bank on album sales. & Music stores went out of business because of Itunes, Ipods, & Amazon if anything......A legal music business.
> Should we stop apple & amazon too?


Once again, this is fairy floss logic. No, they are not being supported because too many people are downloading it free; especially the smaller, independent artists. Smaller artists make little to no money and can't afford to record. Only the top level are making huge bucks. The big companies are capable of supporting such business because of their size and this just strengthens them even more. That's my point. Illegally downloading only hurts the little guys. Stop making out like no one is effected simply because you want your music for free.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

successful said:


> Your internet company will report you to the government & RIAA if you download music illegally starting july 12th..So if you wan't any music you getter download it before the 12th of july or you'll go to jail or/and they'll cut off your internet service for good.
> 
> Basically illegal downloading is dead in the U.S next month.......Until someone finds a way around it.


I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, but what about converting youtube videos to mp3s? Does that count? I mean I'm sure it's not technically legal, but it's not really the same as downloading it from a file sharing whatchamacallit, right? Riiiiiight?


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## Openyoureyes (Jun 13, 2012)

Must download all songs now before it's too late >:| Wah


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Once again, this is fairy floss logic. No, they are not being supported because too many people are downloading it free; especially the smaller, independent artists. Smaller artists make little to no money and can't afford to record. Only the top level are making huge bucks. The big companies are capable of supporting such business because of their size and this just strengthens them even more. That's my point. Illegally downloading only hurts the little guys. Stop making out like like no one is effected simply because you want your music for free.


 OK.

My favorite band is (and has been since my mid teens) Pink Floyd.

You know how I got into them? My parents were very religious and would not buy tapes and/or CDs for me. I had no talents and had severe SA at that time too so getting a job and buying stuff I wanted was out.

One day I decided to go into the library and discovered they had CDs you could check out and keep for a couple of weeks. I eagerly grabbed a couple from the front not even caring what they were. I was just happy I would have something to listen to that wasn't on the radio.

One of the albums I just happened to grab was Dark Side of the Moon. And the first time I heard it, I absolutely HATED it. I returned it a few days later. But for some reason, it stuck with me in my mind and I couldn't stop thinking about it. About a month later, I gave it another chance. After a few listens, I kind of liked it a little.

Eventually, it became my favorite album. So I looked for other stuff by Pink Floyd at the library and ended up with The Wall and Wish You Were Here.

My parents still wouldn't buy me these albums even though I knew exactly what I wanted and I begged. They weren't always checked in at the library but I wanted to listen to them every day. So what did I do? I copied them onto cassette tapes one fine day before returning them. And I listened to them thousands of times.

When I grew up and got my first job, I eventually bought every Pink Floyd album that was available for purchase. Because tapes wear out and CDs get lost or stolen (and they sometimes remaster them) I've bought most of these albums several times. In fact, over the years, I've probably bought Dark Side at least ten times at full asking price.

I'd have never bought any of them if I hadn't found a way to "preview" them. I believe in buying the albums you love that will be with you as long as you live. That's worth it. You can't really put a price on that but the asking price is actually pretty cheap IF you find something you love and want to listen to for life.

Taking a $15 chance on something you might hate (or might even love at first but grow to hate in a short period of time) is not the kind of thing most people can afford. Especially considering how many albums you generally have to listen to in order to find the gold.

Now there are people who will just take as much free music as they can get and never buy anything. That's unfortunate. But it would be more effective to simply encourage people to buy the music they enjoy than it is to insult people and call them thieves. You're not going to convince many people you're right by pissing them off.


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## T-Bone (Oct 1, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> Once again, this is fairy floss logic. No, they are not being supported because too many people are downloading it free; especially the smaller, independent artists. Smaller artists make little to no money and can't afford to record. Only the top level are making huge bucks. The big companies are capable of supporting such business because of their size and this just strengthens them even more. That's my point. Illegally downloading only hurts the little guys. Stop making out like like no one is effected simply because you want your music for free.


Well if lesser known recording artists have to rely on cd sales to get "huge bucks", well good luck to them. Not everyone is in the music scene just to make money, some actually enjoy playing it, and having people listen to it. If you want more people to hear your music, music sharing is a great way to do it. Then if you get extremely popular from internet exposure, there's always a profit to be made from playin gigs and sellin tshirts? Hell a band could get famous and rich without a record deal with a company that's gonna rip them off anyways.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

SomebodyWakeME said:


> Well if lesser known recording artists have to rely on cd sales to get "huge bucks", well good luck to them. Not everyone is in the music scene just to make money, some actually enjoy playing it, and having people listen to it. If you want more people to hear your music, music sharing is a great way to do it. Then if you get extremely popular from internet exposure, there's always a profit to be made from playin gigs and sellin tshirts? Hell a band could get famous and rich without a record deal with a company that's gonna rip them off anyways.


First, it's not just musicians that make the tracks you enjoy, but engineers. Their equipment is not free, and neither is their time and experience. And if they do it for free, often their equipment still cost them a lot. Not all music is mixed on a F'ing computer.

Second, music can be a hobby, sure. And if musicians want to give their music for free, that is THEIR right and NOT yours to decide. Free music that the artist gives away is fine. Copyright is exactly that, the right to copy. Why the F would I be against free stuff. I am against _illegal _copying.

Third, It's called illegal copying for one simple reason. The _Illegal _part. You may have missed that.

Fourth, bands that play gigs and sell tee shirts often make hardly enough to cover expenses.

Fifth, some people actually want to work in music for a living and not just do it between paid office work. If they make something you like and want to be paid for it, they have every right to ask for money. You have NO right to simply take it from them because you want it. Refer to point 2.


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## T-Bone (Oct 1, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> First, it's not just musicians that make the tracks you enjoy, but engineers. Their equipment is not free, and neither is their time and experience. And if they do it for free, often their equipment still cost them a lot. Not all music is mixed on a F'ing computer.
> 
> Second, music can be a hobby, sure. And if musicians want to give their music for free, that is THEIR right and NOT yours to decide. Free music that the artist gives away is fine. Copyright is exactly that, the right to copy. Why the F would I be against free stuff. I am against _illegal _copying.
> 
> ...


I'm not arguing that it's ok to steal peoples music if they're trying to sell it. That's their choice, and they have the right to be very upset if they want. I'm just saying i'm glad there are still some musicians that aren't in it for the money. They are also some who ARE in it for the money, and STILL see the benefit of internet sharing.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

PickleNose said:


> OK.
> 
> My favorite band is (and has been since my mid teens) Pink Floyd.


Ok, nice story. But as people have said to me, it;s not 1995 anymore. Besides, previewing is what the radio is for.

Now, people swap a few things now and again and that hardly hurts the industry. And yes, some people will listen to a copy and then buy, buy, buy. If I were to dismiss the value of some small copies to float around between friends I'd be a naive idiot.

But generally, this is far worse than a few taped bootlegs. People are complaining here about having to buy anything at all. About not being able to get everything for free and to get as much as they can before it's too late. Pure greed.

They look at the crackdown on illegal piracy as a bad thing because _they_ miss out. Not because of the benefits it will have on legitimate music sales or supporting the artists who would like to make music for a living and cannot be signed to a huge company, which very few ever are. I've seen a few small, independent recording studios shut down because bands just don't have the money to record properly. People love their music but they don't see much money and can't continue. They have bills to pay and a full music profession requires time they don't have.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

SomebodyWakeME said:


> I'm not arguing that it's ok to steal peoples music if they don't want to give it away. That's their choice. I'm just saying i'm glad there are still some musicians that aren't in it for the money. They are also some who ARE in it for the money, and STILL see the benefit of internet sharing.


I agree. This whole thread is about illegal piracy. Illegal copying. Not about legitimate file sharing which has many benefits.


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## T-Bone (Oct 1, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> I agree. This whole thread is about illegal piracy. Illegal copying. Not about legitimate file sharing which has many benefits.


Well it's about a few things, ISP's spying on their customers, copying, and sharing. Afterall, you can't share if someone doesn't copy. 
I'm guilty of downloading music though. usually because i cant find it anywhere else. But i'm also constantly buy music at the store when i see something. A lot of times i already have it downloaded too, but i'd rather have the official thing.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

SomebodyWakeME said:


> Well it's about a few things, ISP's spying on their customers, copying, and sharing. Afterall, you can't share if someone doesn't copy.


If people didn't abuse the system, then there would be no need to monitor or regulate it. People are destroying their own freedoms because they exploit it out of greed.


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Ok, nice story. But as people have said to me, it;s not 1995 anymore. Besides, previewing is what the radio is for.


Not every album that is coming out has a few songs previewing on the radio. Some genres of music aren't even played on the radio.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Ok, nice story. But as people have said to me, it;s not 1995 anymore. Besides, previewing is what the radio is for.


 How do you preview an entire album for a month with the radio?



> They look at the crackdown on illegal piracy as a bad thing because _they_ miss out.


 Well, maybe. But it's not just a crackdown on piracy. It's spying on people. There's no way they can know what you're downloading unless they look at it and see what it is. In my opinion, that means nothing short of spying on people and checking anything they think looks suspicious. This has implications that go so far beyond merely copying a few copyrighted albums I don't even know where to begin.

You may be right on a basic level. Most people might just be lamenting the apparent end of their ability to grab tons of free music without paying for it. Fine. Fair point. But there is a legitimate reason to fear this and anyone with a brain knows it. This is a bad sign because the governments, the recording industry and the ISPs have taken to working together and making excuses for wholesale spying on basically everyone regardless of any serious wrongdoing. To try and make any excuse for this is just nuts.

I just don't think you're looking at the big picture. You're thinking only of the people who might lose their jobs as a result of pirating. And I don't dismiss that. When it comes down to it, nobody likes to see an honest, hardworking person get screwed. There is just a bigger issue here if I'm reading it right.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

BKrakow said:


> well...this sucks.
> 
> do we know which ISPs will be participating?
> 
> actually, pretty sure some ISPs were already doing this (or something like it) but I knew someone who got like 10 notices about his downloading and nothing ever came of it. unless they're going to be getting more strict now?


 What they will probably do is find out which people are doing it, warn them a few times and if that doesn't work, they'll start throttling their connection. They might eventually start canceling people's internet but they ARE still a business. My guess is they'll try to see if throttling works on a mass scale.

But of course, they might also report you to some copyright police and they might take legal action. It seems this has failed in the past but that hasn't really stopped them from trying to make it work.

I think a lot of people with high speed internet are going to end up getting throttled.

I used to have unlimited downloading for $20 a month. A year or so ago, they capped it around 150 gigs under the pretense of conserving bandwidth. Then, after that insult, they actually raised my monthly fee to $35 a month even though I never download more than about 40 gigs a month. So I'm now paying $15 a month more than I was paying when I signed up with them and getting a connection that will not allow me to download as much as I want at the speed I'm paying for. In fact, I believe they notice I got said that people who go over the 150 gigs a month will be fined.

So I guess that wasn't enough. Maybe it was just softening us up for the real punch.


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## kismetie (May 20, 2012)

Selbbin said:


> Well, yes, if it's _illegal pirating _because you selfishly believe you have the right to take what you want simply because you want it, you are.
> 
> It's not hard to look after discs.


I was speaking for myself, for me I suck at taking care of disc and that's why I don't. I don't see why you are so bent out of shape over other people getting their music for free. It has nothing to do with you at all. But whatever, think what you want. No one can change your mind and crap still happens anyway regardless of how we feel about it.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

PickleNose said:


> How do you preview an entire album for a month with the radio?


That's like wanting to read an entire book before buying.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> That's like wanting to read an entire book before buying.


1. Perhaps. But you can pick up a book and flip through it in a store. Many stores even have places where you can sit down and read. You can sort of try music out now on sites like Amazon, I think so that's an improvement. But still. Anyway, it's a lot easier to judge a book this way than it is an album.

2. Most people don't buy books anyway.

3. Most of the people who do buy them don't read them over and over unless it's a priceless read. Most books don't fit that definition and most people who have the money to buy a lot of books don't have that kind of time.

4. It is but so what? Who wants to buy an album for $15 - $20 and have it collecting dust in two weeks never to be listened to again? Aren't there enough things we're wasting money on? Good art may be eternal but it's subjective. It doesn't matter how much talent and money went into making an album if it sucks. I have CDs sitting on my rack right now I haven't listened to in years. Probably at least $200 worth. I didn't start getting music off torrent sites until I quit my job. When I had the money, I bought the stuff. I never really felt that good about it but what are you gonna do when you're broke and you're a hermit?


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Here is a better article


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## Lamento (May 30, 2012)

Download youtube vids in mp3 format > No illegal activity > YAY


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Lamento said:


> Download youtube vids in mp3 format > No illegal activity > YAY


Most songs not on youtube anymore though 
youtube turned to **** since google bought them.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

*Buy music*

I've purchased 2691 albums and have them on iTunes. If you don't like music, don't listen to it. If you like music, be happy that it's available at all.


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

Mercurochrome said:


> *Buy music*
> 
> I've purchased 2691 albums and have them on iTunes. If you don't like music, don't listen to it. If you like music, be happy that it's available at all.


Or better yet, buy tickets to see them live.

The artists don't much from their record sales anyway, it goes mostly to the CEO's and record label.

I see nothing wrong with downloading illegally if you find other ways to support your favorite bands.


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> Tell that to the scores of sound engineers, duplication houses, musicians (not the big league but in the other 99%), independant music stores and the rest that have gone out of business or lost their jobs.


I'm sure ITunes, Amazon, MP3 players and other digital devices are equally responsible for the downfall of retail record stores. Not just illegal downloaders.

90% of my physical CDs were from those BMG and Columbia catalog where I would one or two CDs then get another 3 or 4 for free. If you think about it, it's kinda an illegal practice. I rarely ever step into a record store to buy CD even back in the late 90's and early 2000's.

And if people can't download anymore, then they'll go buy bootlegs in Chinatown or places like that.


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## LordScott (Apr 9, 2012)

foe said:


> I'm sure ITunes, Amazon, MP3 players and other digital devices are equally responsible for the downfall of retail record stores. Not just illegal downloaders.
> 
> 90% of my physical CDs were from those BMG and Columbia catalog where I would one or two CDs then get another 3 or 4 for free. If you think about it, it's kinda an illegal practice. I rarely ever step into a record store to buy CD even back in the late 90's and early 2000's.
> 
> And if people can't download anymore, then they'll go buy bootlegs in Chinatown or places like that.


I never trust those columbia house things... I admit I still download music illegally, but thats only if I cant find the real physical album online. lately since I have gotten money I have been buying alot of cd's. it just feels right to buy em now


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

LordScott said:


> I never trust those columbia house things... I admit I still download music illegally, but thats only if I cant find the real physical album online. lately since I have gotten money I have been buying alot of cd's. it just feels right to buy em now


Those BMG and Columbia House catalogs were great for people on a budget income back in the 90's. All of their CDs are manufactured by them and not the record companies though, so you'll won't get the same UPC bar code as retail stores do. I guess you can describe it as "legal bootlegs" because that basically what they were. They had the same booklet, CD quality, etc, but was just made through BMG and Columbia.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

wow. now they're hiring people to snitch on people who download.

http://gizmodo.com/5917783/record-labels-are-paying-students-to-narc-on-students-who-pirate-music


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## Starless Sneetch (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't know the whole story, but I think this is a good thing. Downloading music illegally is cheating your favorite artists out of money. You want to support your favorite bands, right? Buy the CD or the legal digital download!

I do listen to music on youTube, but a lot of it is stuff I already own, is copyright-free (I assume), or are things that aren't available at all in my country. So perhaps this is a bit contradictory...but I am not downloading it. And I would gladly pay for this music, if I could even get it where I live.

Sorry if this offends anyone or anything.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

foe said:


> Or better yet, buy tickets to see them live.
> 
> The artists don't much from their record sales anyway, it goes mostly to the CEO's and record label.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with downloading illegally if you find other ways to support your favorite bands.


I've downloaded free music from bands that are are on major labels, but most of what I listen to are released on small independent labels, which I purchase to support both the artist and the label.

My friend supports small acts by going to shows consistently. He's more extroverted and non-wary of crowds than I.


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

Starless Sneetch said:


> I don't know the whole story, but I think this is a good thing. Downloading music illegally is cheating your favorite artists out of money. You want to support your favorite bands, right? Buy the CD or the legal digital download!


Wheter I listen to it on legal download or not, I'm still showing my favorite artist some appreciation just by listening to and enjoying their music.

I'll take the cheaper route and download for free lol.


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

Well this is depressing. Now I'll be stuck listening to worthless crap on the radio. Bull****.


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## Starless Sneetch (Apr 24, 2012)

BobtheSaint said:


> Wheter I listen to it on legal download or not, I'm still showing my favorite artist some appreciation just by listening to and enjoying their music.
> 
> I'll take the cheaper route and download for free lol.


But your favorite artist isn't getting any financial compensation for their hard work when you download illegally. Plus, how will they know you are listening to and enjoying their music when you download it like that?


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Besides, previewing is what the radio is for.


.... :teeth

Sorry, but... most people who are into music don't listen to the crap that's on the radio. None of my favourite artists have ever been featured on radio. Once in a blue moon I'll hear something from them and I have a heart attack from shock.

I do understand that you really feel that illegal downloading is bad, and I do agree with you. It's taking away money from the artists. But also agree with Pickle and others. That it's only fair that we get to know what we are buying. If we download, we are stealing from them. If we buy one of their albums, because we listened to _one_ hit from the radio, and their album turns out to be sh*t, it suddenly feels as though the band stole from _me_. Anyone know whether we are allowed to return CDs once their open? Probably not, right... To me, that is stealing as well. They duped us with a cool hit song, while the rest of the album turned out to be trash.

I know that sounds harsh, but I'm picky about music, and 99% of the music I download to try out, turns out to be trash and I'm sooo glad I didn't spend money on it. I don't want to support people that have sucky music. I don't want my money to go down the drain.

Since I recognize that I'm one picky *****, when I find a band that I love, I buy every single thing that they have released. When I _really_ love a band, when I really want to support that band - I support them. I buy their albums and they collect dust, because I don't use the physical albums, but I wanted them because I love and respect the band.

I want to support _good_ artists. I don't want to feel like I'm being robbed every time I get duped by one good song on a crap album.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Freiheit said:


> Well this is depressing. Now I'll be stuck listening to worthless crap on the radio. Bull****.


You know, you can BUY music.


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## Grimsey (Apr 21, 2012)

If worst comes to worst, people can always just go back to exchanging music libraries at LAN parties.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Monroee said:


> .... :teeth
> 
> Sorry, but... most people who are into music don't listen to the crap that's on the radio.


Oh ffs. It's not the _only _source. It's just A way of sampling MAINSTREAM music. I was replying to a specific concern.

And people that are 'into music', should not be downloading illegally. It's kind of a massive slap in the face to your passion and the people who do all the work.

And also, it depends on the station. we have two great independent stations here that feature most of the local new talent, and you can send in your own stuff and if they like it they play it.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Monroee said:


> I know that sounds harsh, but I'm picky about music, and 99% of the music I download to try out, turns out to be trash and I'm sooo glad I didn't spend money on it. I don't want to support people that have sucky music. I don't want my money to go down the drain.
> 
> Since I recognize that I'm one picky *****, when I find a band that I love, I buy every single thing that they have released. When I _really_ love a band, when I really want to support that band - I support them. I buy their albums and they collect dust, because I don't use the physical albums, but I wanted them because I love and respect the band.
> 
> I want to support _good_ artists. I don't want to feel like I'm being robbed every time I get duped by one good song on a crap album.


 That's exactly how I feel about it. The way I see it, I'm exploring if I download something I would never buy without listening to it first. I'm not costing them anything. When I find something I really like, I do feel better buying it to let them know they're doing something right.

If all downloading goes away tomorrow, I'm not going to magically start spending money I don't have to waste on stuff I haven't had a fair amount of time to listen to and evaluate. I'm poor. So if they see me as lost income, they're fools.


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## Und3rground (Apr 27, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> I'm really not sure why piracy and stealing on the internet is seen as ok, even a right.


Because people will go to any lengths to defend the indefensible


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> And people that are 'into music', should not be downloading illegally. It's kind of a massive slap in the face to your passion and the people who do all the work.


I agree with you that these people deserve to be paid for their work. on the other hand, it's just a fact of life that industries change as technology progresses and that sometimes that results in fewer jobs and profit...it's up to the people in the industry to come up with ways to stay relevant and engaging and profitable. once napster was released it was basically like opening pandora's box and of course a large percentage of people are going to choose to download music for free if they can. I don't even see the point in debating if it's right or wrong...at this point the record industry is powerless to stop it and it's up to them to create incentives for people to actually buy their products if they want to continue to be relevant in the world we live in.

furthermore, it's not all terrible for the artists because even though the advent of the internet & p2p file sharing means more people stealing their music, it also means they can reach more people with their music than ever before, even without a record deal. so maybe many artists would have sold more CDs and made more money if file sharing were never invented, but then again there are also many artists who would never have established a fan base in the first place without the help of the internet/file sharing.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Und3rground said:


> Because people will go to any lengths to defend the indefensible


 Who knew we were talking about crimes against humanity here?

:roll


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## shelbster18 (Oct 8, 2011)

I feel like I'm the only one on here who still buys albums. :um I just like to have the real thing but that's just me. :stu I also buy the albums because I like to collect the booklets or whatever you call them that comes with the albums. I haven't downloaded music in years. I quit doing that because I wanted the real thing.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

successful said:


> wow. now they're hiring people to snitch on people who download.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5917783/record-labels-are-paying-students-to-narc-on-students-who-pirate-music


These people are desperate


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> And people that are 'into music', should not be downloading illegally. It's kind of a massive slap in the face to your passion and the people who do all the work.


I guess I'm just gonna have to respectively disagree. Since it is my passion, I have very high standards. And my personal opinion, is that I don't want to support what I try out and don't like.

Maybe it would be a good idea if every artist/band streamed all their music online for free. People that liked it, can buy it. If people don't, no loss. The new album by Fiona Apple was streamed online legally. I really liked her in the past. I gave it listen and I don't like it. See, that's fair. Now I don't have to waste my money on something I don't care for.

Most things you can test before you buy. You see it before you buy it. When I wanna buy a new couch. I sit on it for 20 minutes testing it's cushiness. I'll sit and stare at a new TV in a store for half an hour, comparing prices and quality. I go to a bookstore and can sit and read the first 5 chapters of a book before I buy it. I know what I'm buying. My opinion is simply that music companies change how they advertise to incorporate this. I think that would help a lot with this issue.

I just don't understand how testing music out first is a slap in the face to the artists. What if I bought an album, bc I heard two songs on the radio, and it turned out it sucked, I can't return it cause its open - so, I email the artists and say their album sucks, I wasted hard-earned money on it, but that's ok, they got their share of the money? Wouldn't _that_ be a slap in the face? If I was an artist, I would want people to know what they are buying and actually appreciate my art. I would feel bad if people bought my album and were disappointed because they didn't know what I was selling.

So in conclusion - I just think record companies and artists, should take this type of thinking into consideration and perhaps all do what Fiona Apple did. That way - no one is duped, no one wastes money - the artists can rest assured that the people who bought their music actually liked it and it was fair and square.

Now - for the people that download music, end up loving it, and don't support the artists. No, I don't agree with that. Guess that's my little disclaimer.


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

Starless Sneetch said:


> But your favorite artist isn't getting any financial compensation for their hard work when you download illegally.


I know, but music artists don't even get their profits solely from selling albums. They also make money off of their hard work from doing concerts, tours, endorsements, etc.



> Plus, how will they know you are listening to and enjoying their music when you download it like that?


If I send the artist an email on their fansite or something, I can always write them a positive review.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

these damn artists make enough money as it is. And the majority of them suck anyway. If artists actually made good music these days, maybe I would actually buy sh*t. Until then, I'll stick with itunes rips tyvm.


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## falling down (Oct 17, 2011)

Twelve Keyz said:


> these damn artists make enough money as it is. And the majority of them suck anyway. If artists actually made good music these days, maybe I would actually buy sh*t. Until then, I'll stick with itunes rips tyvm.


I rarely listen to music anymore because of them and their sh*tiness.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Monroee said:


> I guess I'm just gonna have to respectively disagree. Since it is my passion, I have very high standards. And my personal opinion, is that I don't want to support what I try out and don't like.


I agree with the benefits of downloading and trialling. I do not agree with doing it illegally. The artist and the people who have made the product have made a choice to restrict distribution. It is their work and they have every right to do so.

If an artist wants the help of internet exposure, then it is their right to decide if they want to hand it out for free, not the consumer.

If an artist does NOT want their music to be trialled by people, who then may not buy it, that is also their choice, and not that of the consumer.

Therefore, ignoring the choices made by the artist in relation to their work is disrespectful.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Twelve Keyz said:


> these damn artists make enough money as it is. And the majority of them suck anyway. If artists actually made good music these days, maybe I would actually buy sh*t. Until then, I'll stick with itunes rips tyvm.


The top 1% maybe. The rest struggle. The idea that artists and engineers make buckets of money is one of the fallacies that is creating this problem. The ironic thing is, illegally downloading music only hurts the little guys, as the big players still gets rights money from radio, commercials, movie rights etc.

Also, if their music is that bad, why do you need to download it? Why do you need it at all? That's like eating bad food out of spite just because you can get it free.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

BobtheSaint said:


> I know, but music artists don't even get their profits solely from selling albums. They also make money off of their hard work from doing concerts, tours, endorsements, etc.


Many artists don't do concerts, and getting concert gigs is harder and less financially rewarding than you might think. Usually it's done to promote support for selling the work later. Few bands and artists get endorsements either.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> The top 1% maybe. The rest struggle. The idea that artists and engineers make buckets of money is one of the fallacies that is creating this problem. The ironic thing is, illegally downloading music only hurts the little guys, as the big players still gets rights money from radio, commercials, movie rights etc.
> 
> Also, if their music is that bad, why do you need to download it? Why do you need it at all? That's like eating bad food out of spite just because you can get it free.


you're right. The "little guys" (producers and engineers) hardly make anything. But the artists and top executives make tons off concerts, tours etc.... which is why I don't believe in buying their crap unless it's actually worth it.

As for your other question... well, it's the only way I can listen to music. I don't like the songs they play on the radio. And even if I do - it's not like I can listen to those songs anywhere at any time. Most of the albums I download have maybe 1 or 2 good songs on them. The rest is usually garbage. I'm not willing to pay for that. If they want my money, they better start upping the talent :stu.

Also, purchasing music does more for the executives than it does for the artists anyways. That's why a lot of people are going independent these days, selling their music off websites and stuff. The industry is greedy.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Twelve Keyz said:


> you're right. The "little guys" (producers and engineers) hardly make anything. But the artists and top executives make tons off concerts, tours etc.... which is why I don't believe in buying their crap unless it's actually worth it.
> 
> As for your other question... well, it's the only way I can listen to music. I don't like the songs they play on the radio. And even if I do - it's not like I can listen to those songs anywhere at any time.
> 
> Most of the albums I download have maybe 1 or 2 good songs on them. The rest is usually garbage. I'm not willing to pay for that. If they want my money, they better start upping the talent :stu.


Perhaps a good option for you would be to use iTunes or the like and get tracks instead of albums? I dunno.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Perhaps a good option for you would be to use iTunes or the like and get tracks instead of albums? I dunno.


a lot of songs aren't even on itunes. Plus, how would I know which songs to grab if there isn't any way of listening to them for free?

If I download an album and I really like it, I'll buy it. If it sucks, then I delete it. That's always been my policy.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Twelve Keyz said:


> The industry is greedy.


Absolutely. But piracy doesn't help. Independent is good only if it is supported. Illegal pirating is killing off the chance for many production houses and artists to be independent because they struggle to make the money to keep going. The studios have the financial stability to weather the storm. So piracy is just making things worse.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I don't support illegal downloading, most of the time. As a musician, I want to be paid for my work, and I can understand those that want that, too.

If you want free downloads, check out all the free and legal download sites available on the net.


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## falling down (Oct 17, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> I don't support illegal downloading, most of the time. As a musician, I want to be paid for my work, and I can understand those that want that, too.
> 
> If you want free downloads, check out all the free and legal download sites available on the net.


Question, would you snitch?


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

falling down said:


> I rarely listen to music anymore because of them and their sh*tiness.


 Exactly.

Most of it turns out to be **** anyway. Let them piss people off. The more people they turn off, the more likely it will be that they're finished. Whether they win their little war on downloading or not.

Let's just make sure that people never forget what they did here


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

The funny thing is, this is kind of how the ISPs sold broadband to so many people. A lot of people didn't need broadband until they started downloading large media files. Even large zip files full of pictures were doable with the old 56k modem. It wasn't fast but you could set it to download the file and let it go while you surfed. 

A lot of people bought broadband service for file sharing and the ISPs damn well knew it. But they waited until virtually everyone had signed up for broadband service before they told them they couldn't use it for that. Now they sit back and collect the monthly fee and ***** about bandwidth hogs and spy on their users for the recording industry (and probably the government).


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Absolutely. But piracy doesn't help. Independent is good only if it is supported. Illegal pirating is killing off the chance for many production houses and artists to be independent because they struggle to make the money to keep going. The studios have the financial stability to weather the storm. So piracy is just making things worse.


Okay. I don't wanna argue whether piracy is wrong or not, but do you agree with the presented solution? Monitoring customer's traffic, snitching, etc., basicly limiting your freedom on the internet. Besides, it wont even stop illegal downloading.

I think they should rather focus on the root of the issue, but of course thats not gonna happen, because everyone only focuses on their own pockets and dont give a crap about a costumer.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

falling down said:


> Question, would you snitch?


No.

But I don't tour, because I have really bad stage anxiety. I know that's different, but I am an indie artist who sells his music on Bandcamp, iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon MP3.

I have no problem with people just streaming my songs on Bandcamp, which is free, or streaming it on Spotify. I get paid some if you stream on Spotify, which is why I like it, but I do like people hearing what I do.

What I don't like is the idea that someone can take my music, copy it, and pass it out to all their friends. Meanwhile, I'm poor, I need to pay for college, a new car, and food and living situations. It's a tough economy. I am not the millionaire that many of you are talking about...I actually work for a living, and make music for fun. I don't expect to make lots of money from my music online, mostly because people are *******s and will steal your music.

I do download leaks, and I admit that, but I buy the album once it's available. I downloaded the leaks of the new Metric and Rush albums, and then, on the release date, bought copies from iTunes. Both sounded so much better than the leaks, sound wise, and it was worth the $20 or so dollars I threw at it.

Not every musician tours, and a tour can really take a lot out of you, anyway. If you want to hear free music, get a live bootleg. Most of the time, they're allowed.

With streaming sites like Rdio, Deezer, and Spotify available, not to mention Pandora, I don't know why anybody would need to steal music, unless it wasn't commercially available.


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## falling down (Oct 17, 2011)

PickleNose said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Most of it turns out to be **** anyway. Let them piss people off. The more people they turn off, the more likely it will be that they're finished. Whether they win their little war on downloading or not.
> 
> Let's just make sure that people never forget what they did here





PickleNose said:


> The funny thing is, this is kind of how the ISPs sold broadband to so many people. A lot of people didn't need broadband until they started downloading large media files. Even large zip files full of pictures were doable with the old 56k modem. It wasn't fast but you could set it to download the file and let it go while you surfed.
> 
> A lot of people bought broadband service for file sharing and the ISPs damn well knew it. But they waited until virtually everyone had signed up for broadband service before they told them they couldn't use it for that. Now they sit back and collect the monthly fee and ***** about bandwidth hogs and spy on their users for the recording industry (and probably the government).


You are one intelligent cat. The only music I still listen to is all old and mostly pre-2003. Seems like everything post that time period is just retread and crap. Unless his name is Lupe Fiasco.



WintersTale said:


> No.
> 
> But I don't tour, because I have really bad stage anxiety. I know that's different, but I am an indie artist who sells his music on Bandcamp, iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon MP3.
> 
> ...


The people that sell the music or distribute it to others are the ones ruining it for everyone. 
It's one thing to use it for personal use and it's a complete other to be distributing it for a profit.

End of the day, I think music makers are being a little too greedy, I mean who said they were supposed to become rich millionaires because they make music? I thought the idea was you make music because you love to make music? Now people don't like the idea of making music on the cheap because they won't get a mansion, yacht, Mercedes Benz and a 7 figure bank account out of the deal? That's greed.



Black And Mild said:


> I always knew you were cool


:lol thanks, I also kind of enjoy the Skrillex stuff even though I still consider it to be kind of retread on electronica.


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## Black And Mild (Apr 11, 2011)

falling down said:


> You are one intelligent cat. The only music I still listen to is all old and mostly pre-2003. Seems like everything post that time period is just retread and crap. *Unless his name is Lupe Fiasco.*


I always knew you were cool



falling down said:


> :lol thanks, I also kind of enjoy the Skrillex stuff even though I still consider it to be kind of retread on electronica.


Yeah, a lot of his sh*t rides.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Do you know how much Pro Tools costs? $700-1000!

Not to mention buying mixers, guitars, keyboards, mics, guitar strings, and everything else.

Listen, if you pay me $500 so that I can make an album for you, I will give it to you and all of your friends for free. 

Music isn't made for free, so it shouldn't be distributed for free.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Well, I will be supporting my favorite musicians. I know a lot of people who are musicians, who struggle because of this greedy mindset, and as an indie artist I can understand it now.

Keep being greedy, expecting us to write you beautiful music and not getting paid for it, and keep on pissing us off. Don't expect musicians to give you anything back that's good, unless you actually pay for it.

And if you really are so desperate to hear what the album sounds like, before you buy it...Spotify it. This brings money to the artists, it pleases the labels, it prevents you from doing anything illegal, and it pleases the artists. Then, if you like what you hear on Spotify free, THEN download it from iTunes or whatever (like the person, forget who it was, said about the Fiona Apple album - which I love, by the way - everyone has different tastes, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. We're not making you buy it, we just don't want our work that we put our hard money into distributing and making, stolen. That's all.)


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> like the person, forget who it was, said about the Fiona Apple album - which I love, by the way - everyone has different tastes, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. We're not making you buy it, we just don't want our work that we put our hard money into distributing and making, stolen. That's all.)


Hey, that was me! We know that you are not making us buy it. That's what we've been saying, if we don't like it, we don't want to buy it - but we also don't want to be tricked into buying it if we only like the singles. I think everyone just wants to be able to hear it first. For example, with Fiona's new album, I liked the first song/single. I thought it was pretty good. If she didn't stream the whole album, and I bought it... I would be disappointed and angry that I spent money on it. I would hope that artists would rather give us the chance to like or dislike before taking our money.

I'm not sure what Spotify is though, I guess I'll have to look it up. If it streams every artist's albums, then that might be good. But if I have to pay for that service, I wouldn't do it, as I'm picky and it would take me months to find someone I like and want to buy, it would end up being a waste of money, again.


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> Do you know how much Pro Tools costs? $700-1000!
> 
> Not to mention buying mixers, guitars, keyboards, mics, guitar strings, and everything else.
> 
> ...


you can pirate the software too. :boogie


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Monroee said:


> Hey, that was me! We know that you are not making us buy it. That's what we've been saying, if we don't like it, we don't want to buy it - but we also don't want to be tricked into buying it if we only like the singles. I think everyone just wants to be able to hear it first. For example, with Fiona's new album, I liked the first song/single. I thought it was pretty good. If she didn't stream the whole album, and I bought it... I would be disappointed and angry that I spent money on it. I would hope that artists would rather give us the chance to like or dislike before taking our money.
> 
> I'm not sure what Spotify is though, I guess I'll have to look it up. If it streams every artist's albums, then that might be good. But if I have to pay for that service, I wouldn't do it, as I'm picky and it would take me months to find someone I like and want to buy, it would end up being a waste of money, again.


http://www.spotify.com

It's basically a music library of over 20,000,000 albums, in all genres. It's made to look like iTunes, and most of everything that is available on iTunes is available to stream on there.

There are three basic models. Spotify Free, which is...completely free. The downside is you get only 10 hours per week streaming, it's ad supported, the bitrate is 160 instead of 320, and you can only listen to each song on every album 5 times per week before you get locked out.

The second is Spotify Unlimited, which is $5 per month, or $60 per year. You get to listen to everything in the service without ads, and for as long as you want...on your computer. Everything is also in 320, instead of 160 bitrate.

The third is Spotify Premium, which is $10 per month, or $120 per year. In this model, you get to listen to it on your smartphone as well. This includes Androids, iPhones, and pretty much everything out there.

I pay more than $120 per year for albums, since I'm a music geek. So I see only upsides for this. Plus, streaming each song gets the artist a cut automatically; if someone streamed one of my songs on Spotify, I'd get a few cents. This is more than I would, if someone downloaded my music on Bandcamp, illegally copied it, and then distributed it online to 30 of their closest internet buddies. Plus, the record labels AND the artists love Spotify. You don't get paid as much as if your album was downloaded on iTunes, but you at least make a profit.

MySpace, YouTube, and Soundcloud are also possible legal options. Also, other streaming sites like Rdio and Deezer.

It makes me wonder when people say that musicians should make music for free. If you are trying to make a living doing music, you want to be paid for your work. You wouldn't walk into a cd store and steal a cd...why steal a digital copy? Just stream it, and make everybody happy.

Oh, and you can't possibly love what an artist does, if you expect them to be happy with throwing millions of dollars into creating an album, and then taking a loss. I am not one of those people, but the big name artists are.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> Do you know how much Pro Tools costs? $700-1000!
> 
> Not to mention buying mixers, guitars, keyboards, mics, guitar strings, and everything else.
> 
> ...


you're wasting your money bro. You can get software for free too :lol.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

BKrakow said:


> you can pirate the software too. :boogie


And then get arrested for pirating the software, which a bunch of geeks created and spent years creating and updating.

Yes, I'm studying to be a computer programmer, as well as being a musician. That pisses me off, too.

Don't steal.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Sometimes I wonder why the younger generation (under 21) feel it's healthy to steal stuff?

Makes me wonder what the parents of these posters were teaching them? "Honey, it's okay to steal something as long as you don't get caught...now, please pass the potatoes..."?


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> It's basically a music library of over 20,000,000 albums, in all genres. It's made to look like iTunes, and most of everything that is available on iTunes is available to stream on there.


Thanks. I'll check out the free version.

... Although this doesn't change my opinion! GRR.

lol.


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> And then get arrested for pirating the software, which a bunch of geeks created and spent years creating and updating.
> 
> Yes, I'm studying to be a computer programmer, as well as being a musician. That pisses me off, too.
> 
> Don't steal.


if someone is knowledgeable enough to find and crack a really expensive program and get to use it for free, good on them. I've known plenty of computer programmers and they were all the biggest pirates out there. because programmers in particular are not terribly keen on giving companies like microsoft and adobe more money than they already have.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Whatever. I give up the argument.

I just have to say that I agree with this law, and am happy it's being passed. Something needs to be done.


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> Whatever. I give up the argument.
> 
> I just have to say that I agree with this law, and am happy it's being passed. Something needs to be done.


I'm sorry, not trying to argue, just presenting alternate viewpoints because I don't think the issue is as simple as "it's stealing and that's wrong."

for example, something I was just pondering last night (getting back to the topic of music specifically): you can buy pretty much any used CD on amazon or half.com for anywhere from $.50 -$5.00, depending on the quality, release date, popularity, etc...is paying a paltry sum for a used CD somehow more moral than simply downloading it? the artist gets no proceeds either way; however, buying a used CD is legal and downloading a CD is not.

what about vinyl? pretty sure musical artists don't get any revenue from people buying old vinyl at vintage music stores...are people who prefer vinyl inherently unethical?


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> What I don't like is the idea that someone can take my music, copy it, and pass it out to all their friends. Meanwhile, I'm poor, I need to pay for college, a new car, and food and living situations. It's a tough economy. I am not the millionaire that many of you are talking about...I actually work for a living, and make music for fun. I don't expect to make lots of money from my music online, mostly because people are *******s and will steal your music.


If you don't want your music being copied like that, you can always copyright it. I don't agree with this law being passed, but I do think that musicians should have an opinion on whether they want their stuff copied or not.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

BobtheSaint said:


> If you don't want your music being copied like that, you can always copyright it. I don't agree with this law being passed, but I do think that musicians should have an opinion on whether they want their stuff copied or not.


My music is copyrighted. All of it.

That's the argument here. If someone pirates MY music, they are breaking the law. If they pirate someone else's music, like Radiohead's for example, they are also breaking the law.

Which is why this law is coming into place. Trying to catch people breaking the law. You can argue until you're blue in the face about the logic behind it, but artists copyright their music for a reason...you can either have lots of good music, and pay for it, or have sh*tty music, and not pay a dime for it. Because that's where this will lead, if people keep on pirating; your favorite bands and artists will run out of revenue to MAKE new albums in the first place.

And the indie artists get hurt the most, because they are trying to make a living, and they don't have a lot of money in the first place.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> Do you know how much Pro Tools costs? $700-1000!
> 
> Not to mention buying mixers, guitars, keyboards, mics, guitar strings, and everything else.
> 
> ...


$1,000? More like free on torrents/download forums :um
Most up & coming producers don't pay for software. That's would be hustling backwards if they did.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> Sometimes I wonder why the younger generation (under 21) feel it's healthy to steal stuff?
> 
> Makes me wonder what the parents of these posters were teaching them? "Honey, it's okay to steal something as long as you don't get caught...now, please pass the potatoes..."?


Greed and a sense of entitlement.

They feel that they can take people's hard work just because they can, and then make light of the damage it does, defend their actions with lame justifications such as copies don't take from anyone (which is such an obviously flawed logic because it was still created) and worse, get angry when their theft is thwarted.

It's really disgusting behaviour and says a lot about them as a person.

I worry about their moral compass.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> $1,000? More like free on torrents/download forums :um
> Most up & coming producers don't pay for software. That's would be hustling backwards if they did.


The idiocy of this logic is unfuriating.

So the software was made for free was it? No one paid them, it didn't cost anyone anything, and they had plenty of spare time while flipping burgers?

Why should someone make it if there is no reward? What is this, communism? Everyone owns everything and there is no individualism? There are no property and ownerships rights. You shouldn't get rewarded for innovation and hard work?

Pirates are scum driven by greed and a sense of entitlement.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> The idiocy of this logic is unfuriating.
> 
> So the software was made for free was it? No one paid them, it didn't cost anyone anything, and they had plenty of spare time while flipping burgers?
> 
> ...


You're taking this way too seriously....Time to calm down.
Take a break from the internet if you can't handle the fact that people download lol


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

BKrakow said:


> I'm sorry, not trying to argue, just presenting alternate viewpoints because I don't think the issue is as simple as "it's stealing and that's wrong."
> 
> for example, something I was just pondering last night (getting back to the topic of music specifically): you can buy pretty much any used CD on amazon or half.com for anywhere from $.50 -$5.00, depending on the quality, release date, popularity, etc...is paying a paltry sum for a used CD somehow more moral than simply downloading it? the artist gets no proceeds either way; however, buying a used CD is legal and downloading a CD is not.
> 
> what about vinyl? pretty sure musical artists don't get any revenue from people buying old vinyl at vintage music stores...are people who prefer vinyl inherently unethical?


I've made this point once myself about second-hand books. It is technically illegal if you read the copyright notice and the copyright act. Not sure how they get away with it. With second-hand books I think it has to do with print runs. Same with CDs. They create a certain amount of physical product, sell it, and leave it out there. They still have to sell to have product out there, and always a limited amount, so they made their money regardless of re-sales. They make their profit and are done with it. With digital, one copy released is enough to get zero money back while everyone gets a copy, infinitely. I don't agree with re-sales but I think that is the justification. Digital books won't have this issue, just as digital music.

And the point here is about putting in ways of protecting copyright and stemming the increasing flow of illegal pirating.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

No wonder we're in an economical mess. Everyone is ready to steal from everyone else.

Nobody gives a crap about people's jobs, unless it is directly affecting THEM.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> You're taking this way too seriously....Time to calm down.


It's a balance to the people who don't take it seriously enough.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> No wonder we're in an economical mess. Everyone is ready to steal from everyone else.
> 
> Nobody gives a crap about people's jobs, unless it is directly affecting THEM.


Amen.

But they don't realize it is indirectly affecting them.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

inb4 10 pages


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> Well, I will be supporting my favorite musicians. I know a lot of people who are musicians, who struggle because of this greedy mindset, and as an indie artist I can understand it now.
> 
> Keep being greedy, expecting us to write you beautiful music and not getting paid for it, and keep on pissing us off. Don't expect musicians to give you anything back that's good, unless you actually pay for it.
> 
> And if you really are so desperate to hear what the album sounds like, before you buy it...Spotify it. This brings money to the artists, it pleases the labels, it prevents you from doing anything illegal, and it pleases the artists. Then, if you like what you hear on Spotify free, THEN download it from iTunes or whatever (like the person, forget who it was, said about the Fiona Apple album - which I love, by the way - everyone has different tastes, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. We're not making you buy it, we just don't want our work that we put our hard money into distributing and making, stolen. That's all.)


i agree with this. when it comes to musicians especially my favorite i always pay money for their album or mp3 tracks. how else do you expect for them to make more of the music you love.:yes


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Well, it's the 10th.

Get what you can in these next two days.


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## CrimsonTrigger (Jun 28, 2011)

Just move to Canada. It isn't illegal here.

At least I think it's still technically legal. I haven't been keeping up much with the laws in the past few years.


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

CrimsonTrigger said:


> Just move to Canada. It isn't illegal here.


I'd rather lived in North Korea


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Makes me wonder if this is in any way related to that supposed "virus" thing they had going on a few days ago. Just interesting timing is all.


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

So many people to monitor. Unless the employees of cable companies become like the guy who monitors the matrix I wouldn't worry.


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## LainToWired (Nov 10, 2011)

successful said:


> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. This piece of **** country getting worst by the day.
> 
> Guess we all have to go to starbucks & mcdonalds to download music now?
> 
> http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/major-isps-turn-into-copyright-police-by-july-says-riaa/


Or you could just y'know, pay for music.


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## Nogy (Feb 13, 2011)

Theres a way around this, but its not free. You can use a VPN server, and your ISP won't be able to see what your doing. If i get a notice from my ISP then i'm going to start using torguard's bittorrent proxy. Its $5.95 a month($4.95/m if you sign up for a quarter year, $3.95/m for a year), but alot cheaper than paying for my movies and shows, and it keeps all my torrent download activity private. I don't download music, since alotta artists actually do suffer from illegal downloading. The way i see it though, all the actors and producers of the movies im downloading are already rich enough hehe.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

LainToWired said:


> Or you could just y'know, pay for music.


 I have already bought all the music I ever intend to buy. If this is the way they're going to behave, I am not going to buy their stuff. I might not "steal" it (out of sheer fear) but they can just keep their "intellectual property" in their heads for all I care.

It's not that I don't kind of see their point. It's that I strongly disagree with their actions here. It's like shooting trespassers. I'm really not sure about the legality of it but even if you had a right to shoot people for walking on your property, it would just be overkill (literally) to actually do it if all they were doing was trespassing.

It's only a bunch of people copying music from each other. That's an excuse to spy on everything and everyone? I don't think so. If I had anything better to do, I'd cancel my internet service too. The hell with these people.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

LainToWired said:


> Or you could just y'know, pay for music.


Nah.
There's still IP Changers....And if they take those down theres's still starbucks & Mcdonalds. And if sb's & Md block it. There's still ways to hack ****.


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## AfarOff (Mar 29, 2012)

I can't see this being that big of a deal, to be honest.... so what are they going to do, through 50% of the population in jail? :b

(I know that's not what it says they'll do, but you get my point... there are so many people doing it that basically everyone will have to be punished which, if anything will simply cause a gigantic outrage.)


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

PickleNose said:


> I'd cancel my internet service too. The hell with these people.


Then do so. What right do you have to their work? Why this sense of entitlement? You're angry at them for wanting to be rewarded for the work that you are enjoying. That's lunacy.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

FireIsTheCleanser said:


> I'd rather lived in North Korea


XD :clap


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

https://torrentprivacy.com/#ic

your thoughts?


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## forex (Dec 29, 2010)

back to streaming "raido sure"


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## forex (Dec 29, 2010)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> https://torrentprivacy.com/#ic
> 
> your thoughts?


setting up an Tor Network , 
in my country pedofiles use it, they become anonymous 
for our government and police can't trace them.
they have free hand in sharing pics & video's.



> Tor (short for The onion router) is a system intended to enable online anonymity. Tor client software routes Internet traffic through a worldwide volunteer network of servers to conceal a user's location or usage from anyone conducting network surveillance or traffic analysis.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> https://torrentprivacy.com/#ic
> 
> your thoughts?


This Works for Mac?


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## Xtraneous (Oct 18, 2011)

;(


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

I have 6 hours and 30 minutes to get what I can.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

This would be annoying if I lived in the US...

To be honest though, this is a good thing. The general public steals millions off the entitainment industry and its kinda not cool..


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Then do so. What right do you have to their work? Why this sense of entitlement? You're angry at them for wanting to be rewarded for the work that you are enjoying. That's lunacy.


 I think I explained my position pretty well over the course of this thread. It seems you just didn't really read it. I said I understand their argument and I don't blame them for how they feel. I just believe their solution is....

1. Overkill.

2. Creepy

3. Possibly the start of a slippery slope. Even if they don't intend for it to end up causing some bad stuff (and all bets are off when the government is involved as it is), it might anyway.

4. I said I'd cancel my internet if I had anything better to do. I don't. Also if I was working and had the money, I'd cancel with my current ISP right now and find one that isn't doing this (yet).

5. I do not feel entitled to download music or movies or whatever for free (Even though I do have issues with the concept of intellectual property). I've rarely ever even done it. I personally won't miss it if they were to be successful at what they say they want to achieve. And they probably won't. The people who are really determined to keep doing it will find a way and it will probably only have the effect of reducing the general openness and freedom of the internet. Which governments obviously love more than anything else. This will only deter the stupid people who are not very determined anyway.

Again, I am not one of those people sitting out here fuming because I download music all day long every day. I don't and I never have. I just don't like the sound of this. And they can keep their **** if this is the way they're going to behave. I won't buy it anyway.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

AfarOff said:


> I can't see this being that big of a deal, to be honest.... so what are they going to do, through 50% of the population in jail? :b
> 
> (I know that's not what it says they'll do, but you get my point... there are so many people doing it that basically everyone will have to be punished which, if anything will simply cause a gigantic outrage.)


This appears to be kind of like The boiling frog method. They've gotten quite good at these kinds of tactics. As the article points out, this is a metaphor and the sole purpose is to get the point across. It doesn't technically matter whether or not you can boil a frog this way. You CAN completely change things around on people with gradualism and most of them won't even notice.

It might cause a gigantic outrage if they started throwing thousands of people in jail at midnight. This is unlikely to take place. They have basically said in black and white terms they intend to do it gradually and that fits the boiling frog theory and the concept of gradualism I mentioned above.


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

Hmm, I wonder if I can get someone in like Canada or something to download music for me and then put it on a flashdrive or something and send it to me...


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## Nogy (Feb 13, 2011)

Only 2 hours left! I've been downloading like crazy for the last 48 hours hehe. I've got enough to last me for a couple of months, until i can find out if this is all just a bunch of hyped nonsense or if its for real


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## chantellabella (May 5, 2012)

You know there is such a thing as actually buying a song from Amazon for .99. If I wrote, sang and distributed a song, I'd want to be paid also. 

Just saying that if you take it without paying for it, that's theft.

I agree with the government.


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## fonz (Oct 15, 2008)

Nogy said:


> Only 2 hours left! I've been downloading like crazy for the last 48 hours hehe. I've got enough to last me for a couple of months, until i can find out if this is all just a bunch of hyped nonsense or if its for real


How much have you downloaded? I remember one time I downloaded like 150 albums in one day


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Nogy said:


> Only 2 hours left! I've been downloading like crazy for the last 48 hours hehe. I've got enough to last me for a couple of months, until i can find out if this is all just a bunch of hyped nonsense or if its for real


It's this idiotic, selfish, and opportunistic mentality that lead to the London riots. Stealing while you can still get away with it.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

fonz said:


> How much have you downloaded? I remember one time I downloaded like 150 albums in one day


Such a great ambassador for a civilized society. :roll


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

chantellabella said:


> You know there is such a thing as actually buying a song from Amazon for .99. If I wrote, sang and distributed a song, I'd want to be paid also.
> 
> Just saying that if you take it without paying for it, that's theft.
> 
> I agree with the government.


Selfish, greedy and opportunistic people don't care about what's fair. Just what they can get.


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

****, I have no internet on my computer today... I'm stuck with the complete discography for only 4 bands I downloaded weeks ago. Here's to hoping this is a bunch of baloney.


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## fonz (Oct 15, 2008)

Selbbin said:


> Such a great ambassador for a civilized society. :roll


Hehe it's OK,I've bought like 1600+ cds with my own money as well...


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

I've bought all my music off Amazon for quite some time now. It's reasonably priced and there is no DRM. Same things with movies. I'm actually kind of torn about this. I think the lengths they are going to police the downloading of content is kind of stupid, but apparently lots of people do it and see no issues with it.


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## Nogy (Feb 13, 2011)

fonz said:


> How much have you downloaded? I remember one time I downloaded like 150 albums in one day


I don't download music, i buy all my cd's. I only download movies.

Edit: I removed some of my previous post. Too many "White Knights" in here, don't wanna get snitched on


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## Nogy (Feb 13, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> It's this idiotic, selfish, and opportunistic mentality that lead to the London riots. Stealing while you can still get away with it.


 Haven't you already stated your opinion enough times in this thread? We get it, you don't support P2P filesharing. Saying this over and over isn't going to stop other people from still doing it


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

chantellabella said:


> You know there is such a thing as actually buying a song from Amazon for .99. If I wrote, sang and distributed a song, I'd want to be paid also.
> 
> Just saying that if you take it without paying for it, that's theft.


 I just stole your post.


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## Nogy (Feb 13, 2011)

PickleNose said:


> I just stole your post.


:teeth


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## chantellabella (May 5, 2012)

PickleNose said:


> I just stole your post.


I'm not even going to grace an answer to that childish post. Leaving this silly thread.

Just remember. Karma's a bit*h.

I wonder when you are the victim of theft one day if you think it will be very funny.


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## applesauce5482 (Apr 26, 2012)

If anything, this would hurt the music industry, not help it.

If this ever gets severe and ever gets enforced, I guess I might have to go back to borrowing CD's from the library and ripping them onto my computer


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## TheTruthIsOutThere (Apr 10, 2012)

God I hate out ****ing terrorist government.


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## RawrJessiRawr (Nov 3, 2010)

This reminds me of the south park episode christian hard rock where the boys make a band called moop (lol) they learn about copyrights, ect then protest to not sing anymore until people stop stealing music from the internet..they changed their opinions on it after doing a strike. Stan, Kyle and Kenny decide that the satisfaction of having fans should be more important to musicians than fighting against the fans who make them popular and go to see their concerts. They decide that touring still brings in revenue and call off their protest/strike


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## Xtraneous (Oct 18, 2011)

Still downloading ****. inb4 swat team raid


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Nogy said:


> Haven't you already stated your opinion enough times in this thread? We get it, you don't support P2P filesharing. Saying this over and over isn't going to stop other people from still doing it


Yes, and I'll keep re-enforcing it, and I'll keep repeating myself. Hit block or skip over if you don't like it.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

PickleNose said:


> I think I explained my position pretty well over the course of this thread. It seems you just didn't really read it.


Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I didn't read it or understand.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

chantellabella said:


> I'm not even going to grace an answer to that childish post. Leaving this silly thread.
> 
> Just remember. Karma's a bit*h.
> 
> I wonder when you are the victim of theft one day if you think it will be very funny.


They'll just keep coming up with childish and silly excuses and 'logic' to try and justify theft and infringement on people's rights. This thread is filled with them. It's simply because they want what they want and they can get away with it so everyone else can be damned.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

RawrJessiRawr said:


> This reminds me of the south park episode christian hard rock where the boys make a band called moop (lol) they learn about copyrights, ect then protest to not sing anymore until people stop stealing music from the internet..they changed their opinions on it after doing a strike. Stan, Kyle and Kenny decide that the satisfaction of having fans should be more important to musicians than fighting against the fans who make them popular and go to see their concerts. They decide that touring still brings in revenue and call off their protest/strike


Oh, well, if South Park says it's OK....

It's strange how struggling musicians can't see this point, or all the engineers that have nothing to do with live events, or all those bars and clubs that used to hold live events (in my city at least) but were forced to close their doors or replace bands with poker machines because it was too expensive to put on gigs and they couldn't survive all because those pesky musicians wanted to get paid for their work and the gear cost so much and and and...

PS - I wonder if those writing or making South Park would be just as cool with everyone downloading the show and not buying the DVDs, and TV networks airing it for free because they just don't want to pay for it and they can't sell advertising anymore, and thus the creatives on the show don't get paid for making it, but we just tell them they should do it for the love of their craft and not whine...


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Yes, and I'll keep re-enforcing it, and I'll keep repeating myself. Hit block or skip over if you don't like it.


I thought you said you were tired of arguing here and that you would stop posting here a couple of pages ago.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

FireIsTheCleanser said:


> I thought you said you were tired of arguing here and that you would stop posting here a couple of pages ago.


I was... I've been revived. Hatred of selfishness and stupidity gives me energy! People have posted such stupid things I couldn't help but reply. Onwards!


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

chantellabella said:


> You know there is such a thing as actually buying a song from Amazon for .99. If I wrote, sang and distributed a song, I'd want to be paid also.
> 
> Just saying that if you take it without paying for it, that's theft.
> 
> I agree with the government.





PickleNose said:


> I just stole your post.





chantellabella said:


> I'm not even going to grace an answer to that childish post. Leaving this silly thread.
> 
> Just remember. Karma's a bit*h.
> 
> I wonder when you are the victim of theft one day if you think it will be very funny.


 I don't think it's childish at all. I think it cuts to the heart of the issue.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I didn't read it or understand.


 What exactly do we disagree on?

I admitted that I understand their position and why they feel they have to do something. Anyone would feel the same way in their position. I don't think too many people are denying that.

Where I differ is that just because someone has wronged you doesn't give you the right to use your money and connections to spy on everyone who has a computer.

Yes. I'm aware that if you see file sharing as stealing (I feel that it's a stretch but that's beside the point) then you would have a point in saying the thief is committing an immoral act. OK. No real argument.

Now that that's established, everyone agrees that there are different degrees of immorality. There's a difference between a bank robber and a murderer. A car thief and a rapist. And so on. And no one would believe the solution to murder is to spy on every person 24/7. It may well be effective but it is onerous.

A reaction to wrongdoing should always be more or less proportional.

My problem is that (Even if I were in full agreement with copyright law) *what they're doing about it is FAR worse than what they're reacting to*.

I don't see how any reasonable person could disagree with that last statement. *The fusion of business and government just cannot be seen as a good thing.*

Turning the internet into a giant spy apparatus as a reaction to people sharing copies of movies and songs is way out of proportion to the scale of the original problem.

And of course, the government is obviously taking advantage of this excuse to expand their surveillance powers.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

As other people have pointed out, this won't do anything to stop piracy. People will just download off of YouTube, or make playlists on YouTube and play it from there. Or they'll check out CDs from the library, rip them, and return them.

This thing is like trying to kill a swarm of flies with a minigun. It's overkill, and on top of that, you don't accomplish what you set out to do, but you'll probably cause a LOT of collateral damage. The simple fact is that the current business model regarding digital media is not sustainable. You can threaten, sue, and imprison people as much as you want, but it won't stop the problem that this business model has gone the way of the dinosaur.

Anyways, I'm off to YouTube to listen to my music playlist :lol


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## Marakunda (Jun 7, 2011)

If I was a political person...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_of_Canada

Would totally support these guys.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Nogy said:


> Haven't you already stated your opinion enough times in this thread? We get it, you don't support P2P filesharing. Saying this over and over isn't going to stop other people from still doing it


for real....Selbbin must be having a ****ing mental breakdown over there. :haha
Wait until she finally realize Music Artist, Labels, & Producers download Illegally themselves...Welcome to the 2000's. You don't live in a perfect word, Never will.


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## Nogy (Feb 13, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Yes, and I'll keep re-enforcing it, and I'll keep repeating myself. Hit block or skip over if you don't like it.


Everyone has a right to their opinion and can state it as much as they like, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I was just curious about what you think your going to accomplish, because i can assure you it is nothing.

Anyways, carry on if you think its important enough. I've got movies to watch


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

Delayed...

http://www.dailydot.com/news/six-strikes-copyright-action-system-delayed/


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

huh said:


> Delayed...
> 
> http://www.dailydot.com/news/six-strikes-copyright-action-system-delayed/





> "We do not intend to launch until we are confident that the program is consumer friendly," Caroline Langdale, a press contact for the six strikes system, told the Daily Dot.


:haha

W?T?F?

Consumer friendly? Really? Spying on people is friendly? :lol

OMG! This world just gets crazier every day! Why don't they just send somebody to stab me in the liver with a rusty screwdriver and leave a pot of flowers and a "Have a nice day!" sign just to make sure it's a friendly encounter?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I am copyrighting all of my SAS posts from here on out....

(c) MMXII <- The two Ms mean Millennium Man. Steal? Then, I X out your Is! :lol


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

huh said:


> Delayed...
> 
> http://www.dailydot.com/news/six-strikes-copyright-action-system-delayed/


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

huh said:


> Delayed...
> 
> http://www.dailydot.com/news/six-strikes-copyright-action-system-delayed/


Oh damn looks like I wasted all this time planning my escape to Mexico just in case the FBI came knocking to my door.... oh well, it'll still come in handy in case I ever kill someone or something...


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

So American's? How is your United Police States of America and communist government working out for you?


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

InfiniteBlaze said:


>


^


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Few more months, huh? Sounds like somebody thought it might be a good idea to wait until after the election to piss people off.


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## Winds (Apr 17, 2011)

InfiniteBlaze said:


>


The two girls in the red when he turns the corner backing it up in a way that even Juvenille would be pride, is what makes this gif a classic :lol


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## Bbpuff (Sep 1, 2010)

About a year ago my internet provider saw that I was pirating sims 3, and they completely shut off our internet, until I removed all the files. x.x


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Super Marshy said:


> About a year ago my internet provider saw that I was pirating sims 3, and they completely shut off our internet, until I removed all the files. x.x


Who's your ISP?


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## Bbpuff (Sep 1, 2010)

Witan said:


> Who's your ISP?


Cox. :um


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

Super Marshy said:


> Cox. :um


With a name like that you would have to expect this type of behavior from them.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Super Marshy said:


> Cox. :um


I have Cox too, They never did this to me but i've heard from 2 other people that Cox cut them off because of that...


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## Bbpuff (Sep 1, 2010)

successful said:


> I have Cox too, They never did this to me but i've heard from 2 other people that Cox cut them off because of that...


Funny part is sims wasn't even properly installed yet, when they caught me. I just had the files, but the game itself wouldn't even work. But now I have the Sims working, and several other games as well.. And I'm afraid that they might catch me again. I think I might be on some "list" of theres. D;


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Super Marshy said:


> Funny part is sims wasn't even properly installed yet, when they caught me. I just had the files, but the game itself wouldn't even work. But now I have the Sims working, and several other games as well.. And I'm afraid that they might catch me again. I think I might be on some "list" of theres. D;


They probably won't. I think they have to catch you in the act of downloading. I don't think they can see actual files on your computer.


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## Bbpuff (Sep 1, 2010)

successful said:


> They probably won't. I think they have to catch you in the act of downloading. I don't think they can see actual files on your computer.


But I had those files on for months until they caught me. DD:


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## _AJ_ (Jan 23, 2008)

aaawww, are the big rich music and movie companies not have enough money to buy their 5th manision anymore?? omg! how horrid! why doesnt world vision make a commercial about how harsh conditions the rich guys live in. The government is finally making a stand against those damn low income americans who keep "stealing"(making a copy, not actually stealing) from the poor rich people (who are only rich cause the current technology allows the service they provide to be reproducable for mass worldwide sales, unlike the service other americans provide)


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

_AJ_ said:


> aaawww, are the big rich music and movie companies not have enough money to buy their 5th manision anymore?? omg! how horrid! why doesnt world vision make a commercial about how harsh conditions the rich guys live in. The government is finally making a stand against those damn low income americans who keep "stealing"(making a copy, not actually stealing) from the poor rich people (who are only rich cause the current technology allows the service they provide to be reproducable for mass worldwide sales, unlike the service other americans provide)


Something about how the musicians who don't top the charts or are well known aren't rich and they need to sell CDs to make the money to make more music and all something something something


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Well, I know I could never work as only a musician, because I would never be able to sell enough. People would always pirate my stuff.

I appreciate people listening, but I still want to make money, thanks.

On the subject of this thread, I don't see it ever working. The internet has opened a huge Pandora's box. On one hand, you've got copyrights, which make it illegal for you to download something that isn't yours. On the other hand, you've got Joe Blow in his basement out in the middle of nowhere, pirating the new Green Hornet movie...and can he get caught? What if he does? Throw him in with serial killers, pedophiles, and rapists? 

There should be something different, comparing to what is here. Someone who isn't rich should have that taken into consideration, and someone who is non-violent shouldn't be thrown in with violent criminals. Violence creates violence, and we need more peace.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

It's hilarious... and scary... that I'm the _bad _guy on this thread... considering my stance is _against _immoral and unethical behavior....


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

_AJ_ said:


> aaawww, are the big rich music and movie companies not have enough money to buy their 5th manision anymore?? omg! how horrid! why doesnt world vision make a commercial about how harsh conditions the rich guys live in. The government is finally making a stand against those damn low income americans who keep "stealing"(making a copy, not actually stealing) from the poor rich people (who are only rich cause the current technology allows the service they provide to be reproducable for mass worldwide sales, unlike the service other americans provide)


Clearly you have absolutely ZERO understanding of... well... anything.


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## FireIsTheCleanser (Aug 16, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> It's hilarious... and scary... that I'm the _bad _guy on this thread... considering my stance is _against _immoral and unethical behavior....


*hissssssss* Back you foul beast, back!


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

lol oh god, here we go again....


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

successful said:


> lol and here we go again....


'tis but the roundabout of life...


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## Strwbrry (Jun 28, 2012)

Haha, feel sorry for you americans. I live in the country that started piracy some 400 years ago: Holland! And they ain't gonna stop now


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> It's hilarious... and scary... that I'm the _bad _guy on this thread... considering my stance is _against _immoral and unethical behavior....


 I don't think you're a bad guy. I understand your POV. I just think that under the circumstances, your sympathies are with the wrong people. The copyright people would not have ordinarily been the bad guys either. Like I said, I believe a lot of people can appreciate their dilemma. They're simply going about things the wrong way.


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## _AJ_ (Jan 23, 2008)

Selbbin said:


> Clearly you have absolutely ZERO understanding of... well... anything.


so music and movie companies dont make millions? so celebrities arent super rich?
so the rest of us dont have to work our asses off to get by?

they're allowed to make full use of media technology to get super rich, but we're not allowed to use it to download?


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## TheTruthIsOutThere (Apr 10, 2012)

Strwbrry said:


> Haha, feel sorry for you americans. I live in the country that started piracy some 400 years ago: Holland! And they ain't gonna stop now


oh dont brag


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

shoplifters of the worrrrld...unite and take over!


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I change my tune. 

I feel music is something that should be free. And I say this as a musician.

I feel people should sample my work, and if they like what they hear, they can pay for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should. I don't expect to make a living through making albums, if I did I would be completely SOOL. I make albums because I enjoy it, I pass them around for free most of the time, that is how I roll. I do also have them up on iTunes, Amazon, and Spotify, but that is for those that want to throw money my way.

The copyright thing is outdated. Everything should be open source, or at least share and share alike, nowadays. The internet was designed to share things, and people are just taking it to the next level. That is how the internet will always be, and a bunch of people in black suits aren't going to change that. They try to change America, and Americans will riot.


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