# Truth time: Men need to grow some standards



## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

What I've noticed is men will take a woman no matter what: rather she is jobless, homeless, uneducated, so on an so forth. Most women on the other hand will tell a man tell a man to eff off if he's any of the above.

Why is this? I think guys should get out of this ****. If you're educated, require her to be educated too. If you're working, ditto. I think the whole dating scene would be much better off.


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## 87wayz (Jul 5, 2012)

Real ****...


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

It'd be nice to do that, but nothing would continue to occur.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

always starting over said:


> It'd be nice to do that, but nothing would continue to occur.


Why? It's not that hard. If you're online dating, if you see a chick that's unemployed or only has a HS degree but requires you to work, then move on to the next one.

It's a simple as that.


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> Why? It's not that hard. If you're online dating, if you see a chick that's unemployed or only has a HS degree but requires you to work, then move on to the next one.
> 
> It's a simple as that.


I don't do online dating. What I'm talking about is how I've raised the standards for myself over the years, and that hasn't changed anything with women. So if I raise my standards on what I'm expecting out of *them*, I can expect to get nothing in return.


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## 87wayz (Jul 5, 2012)

always starting over said:


> It'd be nice to do that, but nothing would continue to occur.


If you already think that, then it's true. Get over yourself. Having no standards is desperation, nobody, male or female, is attracted by that.


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## march_hare (Jan 18, 2006)

My boyfriend was homeless, jobless and uneducated


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## Meulin (Jun 28, 2013)

So my boyfriend should break up with me because I don't have a job?


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

always starting over said:


> I don't do online dating. What I'm talking about is how I've raised the standards for myself over the years, and that hasn't changed anything with women. So if I raise my standards on what I'm expecting out of *them*, I can expect to get nothing in return.


Well I mean for guys in general. I guess this is probably the wrong forum for this as most of us don't have many options to begin with because you _do_ need to be social to get women contry to popular believe. But if you ever make it to the other side and you can get any chick you want, remember it.

Women that don't want to work make terrible people to settle down with anyway.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Reia said:


> So my boyfriend should break up with me because I don't have a job?


Would you do the same if he lost his? If so, then yes.


march_hare said:


> My boyfriend was homeless, jobless and uneducated


Somehow I doubt all three, but if so, good for you. You're a rare one.


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## creasy (Oct 29, 2012)

"Truth time"? What part of this is truth? Sounds like just your opinion to me. But thanks for letting me know what my standards should be.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

If your standards are too high, disappointment is nigh.

This goes for men and women.


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## Meulin (Jun 28, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> Would you do the same if he lost his? If so, then yes.


 Nope, because that is ****ed up and I love him.


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## 87wayz (Jul 5, 2012)

Reia said:


> So my boyfriend should break up with me because I don't have a job?


Maybe so if the reason you have no job is that you are lazy. But not if you lost a job or have reasonable ambitions that match his own, assuming he has them. What happens if he loses his job and you all live together? How do you make rent? Pray? It's not like the old days.


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> Well I mean for guys in general. I guess this is probably the wrong forum for this as most of us don't have many options to begin with because you _do_ need to be social to get women contry to popular believe. But if you ever make it to the other side and you can get any chick you want, remember it.
> 
> Women that don't want to work make terrible people to settle down with anyway.


I've done the social thing, building a social circle at work and trying to meet women that way, as well as women they were friends with etc. They all slept with friends I had who were comfortable acting like dicks all the time instead. It's just unending frustration and stress. I'm giving up until I'm in my 30s and maybe making some solid money. Hopefully then I'll appear to have some value.

The ridiculous thing is I have a lot of skills that took a lot of discipline to develop. I have high standards for *myself* and what I do. Doesn't matter though. I'm decent looking and talented, but I'm just not attractive. That's what I've learned.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

creasy said:


> "Truth time"? What part of this is truth? Sounds like just your opinion to me. But thanks for letting me know what my standards should be.


I'm not adding anything to it to be PC. That's the true part.



millenniumman75 said:


> If your standards are too high, disappointment is nigh.
> 
> This goes for men and women.


I'm just saying in a few departments, not looks wise or anything. There should be nothing wrong with expecting at least the same thing out of you partner that they expect out of you. Of course I'm mainly talking about women who make this a requirement but don't do the required thing themselves. To me, that's disgraceful.



Reia said:


> Nope, because that is ****ed up and I love him.


Good then. I'd love to know who would pay the bills though:duck


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## Meulin (Jun 28, 2013)

87wayz said:


> Maybe so if the reason you have no job is that you are lazy. But not if you lost a job or have reasonable ambitions that match his own, assuming he has them. What happens if he loses his job and you all live together? How do you make rent? Pray? It's not like the old days.


Of course I want a job and I understand why making money is important, thanks. I don't enjoy being broke and it makes me feel like a loser and makes me worry about my future and it makes me feel bad that my boyfriend is the one who pays for things. But it's not easy, especially with SA making it more complicated, and I don't appreciate random people telling me that not having one at the moment means that I don't deserve love, and am not "up to standard".


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## creasy (Oct 29, 2012)

I don't understand your reply to march hare...you say "good for you" for dating a homeless, jobless, uneducated guy, yet you're telling guys on here to do the opposite. Unless you were being sarcastic.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

always starting over said:


> I've done the social thing, building a social circle at work and trying to meet women that way, as well as women they were friends with etc. They all slept with friends I had who were comfortable acting like dicks all the time instead. It's just unending frustration and stress. I'm giving up until I'm in my 30s and maybe making some solid money. Hopefully then I'll appear to have some value.
> 
> The ridiculous thing is I have a lot of skills that took a lot of discipline to develop. I have high standards for *myself* and what I do. Doesn't matter though. I'm decent looking and talented, but I'm just not attractive. That's what I've learned.


I should probably add "social with women" because a social circle on it's own will get you no where. That's the common mistake people make thinking it's having friends that get you women and dates. All it does is make it easier to meet them, but it doesn't attract them.

The fact is you can almost be a complete loner most of the time, but if comfortable around them and can talk to them openly and you're fun to be with, you're in. It's only a matter of time. It's a cruel game though and many women are super picky which is why it can be so depressing at at times.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

creasy said:


> I don't understand your reply to march hare...you say "good for you" for dating a homeless, jobless, uneducated guy, yet you're telling guys on here to do the opposite. Unless you were being sarcastic.


I think she was being sarcastic. And notice she said *"was". *Big difference.


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## Meulin (Jun 28, 2013)

Maybe I don't deserve him. Noone likes me and I can't even get a ****ing job.


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> I should probably add "social with women" because a social circle on it's own will get you no where. That's the common mistake people make thinking it's having friends that get you women and dates. All it does is make it easier to meet them, but it doesn't attract them.
> 
> The fact is you can almost be a complete loner most of the time, but if comfortable around them and can talk to them openly and you're fun to be with, you're in. It's only a matter of time. It's a cruel game though and many women are super picky which is why it can be so depressing at at times.


Well whatever. There were a few who were attracted to me, but it led nowhere because I don't know how to be smooth. Being single sucks, but that's how it is for now. It's not like I could entertain a girl and be fun anymore anyway. That part of me is on life support right now.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

No I won't.

Not that I wouldn't date a girl just because she's homeless. That's just ridiculous.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Reia said:


> Maybe I don't deserve him. Noone likes me and I can't even get a ****ing job.


You're young though. you can get away with the not working part. Just work on getting educated part. I'm talking about chicks with full, 100% intent on just lying back draining cash. Finding a job is though for anyone nowadays. It's the intent that matters.

But there's no need to worry either way, it's _always_ going to be the women who sets the standards. Men won't do it. I doubt a man will ever dump a woman for having no job but the other way around it probably happens every day. That's just the it is.



always starting over said:


> Well whatever. There were a few who were attracted to me, but it led nowhere *because I don't know how to be smooth*. Being single sucks, but that's how it is for now. It's not like I could entertain a girl and be fun anymore anyway. That part of me is on life support right now.


Exactly what I'm talking about. You have to be a bread winner, entertainer, and everything else for some women. Maybe my thread should be "Stay away from chicks with ultra high standards but do nothing". That would be much better.


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## 87wayz (Jul 5, 2012)

Reia said:


> Of course I want a job and I understand why making money is important, thanks. I don't enjoy being broke and it makes me feel like a loser and makes me worry about my future and it makes me feel bad that my boyfriend is the one who pays for things. But it's not easy, especially with SA making it more complicated, and I don't appreciate random people telling me that not having one at the moment means that I don't deserve love, and am not "up to standard".


Maybe you should read instead of getting defensive -- it's your SA talking. If you are actively trying, good. But I have struggled with SA, alcoholism and many things, and I got through it by trying hard and accepting help. If I can get out of the bottle and stop smoking, I think you can get a job -- keep pushing, and if you have somebody who wants to support you, good --


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Sacrieur said:


> No I won't.
> 
> Not that I wouldn't date a girl just because she's homeless. That's just ridiculous.


I'll take that part out. It's too far to the extreme.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> I'll take that part out. It's too far to the extreme.


Sometimes it's not always a choice. I've been on the verge of being homeless and I could completely understand being in that position.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Sacrieur said:


> Sometimes it's not always a choice. I've been on the verge of being homeless and I could completely understand being in that position.


I get that part, but the point is most women wouldn't give a man in the same situation the light of day. but a woman on the other hand would have just as much of a chance if she wasn't. That's what needs to change imo.

That's why tons of women have entitlement issues because they know most men will give them what ever they want, no matter what.


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> I get that part, but the point is most women wouldn't give a man in the same situation the light of day. but a woman on the other hand would have just as much of a chance if she wasn't. That's what needs to change imo.
> 
> *That's why tons of women have entitlement issues because they know most men will give them what ever they want, no matter what.*


That's never gonna change.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Anxiety on High said:


> I'm just saying in a few departments, not looks wise or anything. There should be nothing wrong with expecting at least the same thing out of you partner that they expect out of you. Of course I'm mainly talking about women who make this a requirement but don't do the required thing themselves. To me, that's disgraceful.


Just be careful, though. We have to be responsible no matter what.


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

I've seen a lot of guys on this site that have extremely high standards, despite being virgins and having no relationship experience. :stu But their standards have to do with the girl's appearance.


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## aGenericUsername (Apr 7, 2013)

mezzoforte said:


> I've seen a lot of guys on this site that have extremely high standards, despite being virgins and having no relationship experience. :stu But their standards have to do with the girl's appearance.


Yeah I've seen a bunch of guys on here going on and on about how they can't bang the hot chicks.

I don't have standards because if those standards were applied to me I probably would not meet them


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## Cam1 (Dec 4, 2011)

Lots of men have standards. There are lots of reasons I wouldn't date a specific girl, in fact I'm very picky. In fact, I've only met a handful of people in life who I'd actually consider dating. Not sure if it's a good or a bad thing (maybe a bit of both). I don't date anyways, so I guess it doesn't really matter.


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## pineapplebun (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm pretty sure men have standards, just like women do. It's also obvious that everyone has individual preferences, prioritizing certain aspects more whether that be appearance, financial stability, personality, etc. From my own experiences with friends, acquaintences, coworkers, the guys usually don't focus on a girls career/education but there is a great emphasis and expectation on her appearance or personality. Those are still expectations, not like men are getting the short end of the stick. IMO I think the reason there is a difference in what expectations are prioritized is that a man and woman's worth according to society's standards (not on an individual basis) are different. A man's worth seems to based on his career or at least prospective financial stability and a woman's is her looks. This is just an opinion of course, based on my own experiences and from what I gathered through friends. It's also not to say that there isn't pressure for men to look good and that guys aren't seeking financially independent and intelligent women, but perhaps just the priorities are different. So no, I don't feel anyone is getting the short end of the stick. Ultimately, everyone is pressured.

I agree with Mezzoforte that it seems a lot of the guys on the site have exceptionally high standards, sometimes unrealistically.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

mezzoforte said:


> I've seen a lot of guys on this site that have extremely high standards, despite being virgins and having no relationship experience. :stu *But their standards have to do with the girl's appearance*.





pineapplebun said:


> I'm pretty sure men have standards, just like women do. It's also obvious that everyone has individual preferences, prioritizing certain aspects more whether that be appearance, financial stability, personality, etc. *From my own experiences with friends, acquaintences, coworkers, the guys usually don't focus on a girls career/education but there is a great emphasis and expectation on her appearance or personality.* Those are still expectations, not like men are getting the short end of the stick. IMO I think the reason there is a difference in what expectations are prioritized is that a man and woman's worth according to society's standards (not on an individual basis) are different.* A man's worth seems to based on his career or at least prospective financial stability and a woman's is her looks.* This is just an opinion of course, based on my own experiences and from what I gathered through friends. It's also not to say that there isn't pressure for men to look good and that guys aren't seeking financially independent and intelligent women, but perhaps just the priorities are different. So no, I don't feel anyone is getting the short end of the stick. Ultimately, everyone is pressured.
> 
> I agree with Mezzoforte that it seems a lot of the guys on the site have exceptionally high standards, sometimes unrealistically.


Agreed. It's not just you opinon, it's 100% true. That part needs to change.

And I wish I could say my lack of dating success was only because I went after what I consider 10's, but it wouldn't be true. I think it's true for some guys though, but not all.


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## TheManInTheRedSuit (Mar 30, 2013)

First off, not everyone is the same, and the kind of guys out there and women are spread across the board. That being said, there's 2 common complaints I hear

Women: "Men are *******s"
Men: "Women are manipulative *****es"

To men, it's clear that the women needs to stop dating *******s. And the lament and wonder why all guys are *******s, and I can explain it to you real simply: Because *******s get sex. Period. You want *******s to stop popping up everywhere, stop ****ing them. If all women stopped ****ing *******s they'd all but disappear. If women only has sex with nice guys we'd all be nice or trying to be nice haha. Respect yourself more and find an equal relationship.

To women, it's also clear: Stop dating the manipulative *****es. Stop going after the woman that feels entitled to slave pampering. Stop giving her attention. Stop helping her. If we all just stop supporting all these leeches then they would disappear, they'd have to get jobs, and they'd have to realize that their not ****ing royalty. Respect yourself more and find an equal relationship. 

The main problem is that people hold having a relationship as their #1 priority, even above self-respect, so they become a drug for someone else. One more time, respect yourself ffs.


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

TheManInTheRedSuit said:


> First off, not everyone is the same, and the kind of guys out there and women are spread across the board. That being said, there's 2 common complaints I hear
> 
> Women: "Men are *******s"
> Men: "Women are manipulative *****es"
> ...


:yes


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

TheManInTheRedSuit said:


> First off, not everyone is the same, and the kind of guys out there and women are spread across the board. That being said, there's 2 common complaints I hear
> 
> Women: "Men are *******s"
> Men: "Women are manipulative *****es"
> ...


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## TryingMara (Mar 25, 2012)

mezzoforte said:


> I've seen a lot of guys on this site that have extremely high standards, despite being virgins and having no relationship experience. :stu But their standards have to do with the girl's appearance.


Yep, and some who have mentioned using ugly girls as "practice".


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## pineapplebun (Oct 25, 2011)

Anxiety on High said:


> Agreed. It's not just you opinon, it's 100% true. That part needs to change.
> 
> And I wish I could say my lack of dating success was only because I went after what I consider 10's, but it wouldn't be true. I think it's true for some guys though, but not all.


I think you missed the point of my response. This is a purely subjective. It's not absolute at all because everyone has different priorities and everyone has standards. There are definitely guys who look for ambitious women, and to fall short of '10' doesn't make it any less unrealistic. I don't care for rating systems because to me that's immature, cruel and clearly subjective. But either way, for examples sake, let's say the dude is a "1", to only settle for anyone above "5" would considered high expectations. He may not be picky regarding a girl' education/career, but that doesn't mean meeting his standards of beauty and personality isn't near impossible hence why he'll probably join the forever alone crew unless he starts having more realistic expectations.

+ 1 to TheManInTheRedSuit post


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## BiagioScanz444 (May 8, 2013)

Nah, men aren't the only ones who need to change their standards.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

pineapplebun said:


> I think you missed the point of my response. This is a purely subjective. It's not absolute at all because everyone has different priorities and everyone has standards. There are definitely guys who look for ambitious women, and to fall short of '10' doesn't make it any less unrealistic. I don't care for rating systems because to me that's immature, cruel and clearly subjective. But either way, for examples sake, let's say the dude is a "1", to only settle for anyone above "5" would considered high expectations. He may not be picky regarding a girl' education/career, but that doesn't mean meeting his standards of beauty and personality isn't near impossible hence why he'll probably join the forever alone crew unless he starts having more realistic expectations.


 I'm not talking about looks at all when I say "standards" though. It's amazing that's what most people assumed. I'm saying I think men should consider the _whole package_ just like women do.

For instance: if he's a business major and has a successful career he, should go for someone who's ambitions are very similar in her field or at least in college and, not even consider some gold digger who's barely finished high school and never intents to because she has a set of breast. And obviously it should line up with what he's doing. If he's working at Mcdonalds than he has no right to question his women's career choice even though the women would probably in the same situation. That's _not_ unrealistic the way I see it.

t would probably save a hell of a lot of marriages too.


BiagioScanz444 said:


> Nah, men aren't the only ones who need to change their standards.


He's probably the expert smooth talker:lol


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

TryingMara said:


> Yep, and some who have mentioned using ugly girls as "practice".


It absolutely disgusts me that people actually do this. Imagine being an unattractive girl who never gets male attention and feels amazing after a guy actually pays attention to her and seems to like her, only for him to use her as a "stepping stone" of sorts and completely crush her hope and confidence. Despicable.


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## TheDarkGuardian (Jun 1, 2013)

tbyrfan said:


> It absolutely disgusts me (especially being an ugly girl myself) that people actually do this. Imagine being an unattractive girl who never gets male attention and feels amazing after a guy actually pays attention to her and seems to like her, only for him to use her as a "stepping stone" of sorts and completely crush her hope and confidence. Despicable.


Same things happen to dudes as well, especially ugly ones who are rich. Seen them get used so many times which is sad. Guess that's what's messed up about the human race sometimes.

As for you though, having strong morals is an attractive trait regardless of looks in my books  but judging by your profile pic you're He-Man and I'm Batman so er.... ...I should hide this convo from Robin/Nightwing.


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## ItsEasierToRun (Feb 2, 2013)

I think you should get out of this generalisation ****! :roll


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## pineapplebun (Oct 25, 2011)

Anxiety on High said:


> I'm not talking about looks at all when I say "standards" though. It's amazing that's what most people assumed. I'm saying I think men should consider the _whole package_ just like women do.
> 
> For instance: if he's a business major and has a successful career he, should go for someone who's ambitions are very similar in her field or at least in college and, not even consider some gold digger who's barely finished high school and never intents to because she has a set of breast. And obviously it should line up with what he's doing. If he's working at Mcdonalds than he has no right to question his women's career choice even though the women would probably in the same situation. That's _not_ unrealistic the way I see it.


I know you weren't talking about looks when you said standards, you were specifically talking about career/education. On that level I understand that the plane field should be even. Myself personally, I strive to be financially independent and don't plan to leech off a guy. I mentioned looks because based on my experience, guys already are expecting a lot from a girl in the appearance and personality department to the point of delusion at times. Hence men do have standards, just on different aspects of a person. To add in the whole package as you say, which includes career and education, would be unrealistic for most guys. Are they themselves model status making a great living? Probably not, and should not expect that out of their partner. Get what I'm trying to say? I'm not saying expecting a woman to be educated or career-oriented is wrong at all, and that due to differences in priorities, men do have expectations, just that they tend to be focused mainly on looks/personality.

But in all honesty, I think there needs to be less focus on how our potential mates meet our expectations and what they have to offer us and more emphasis on whether we'd even make great partner ourselves and what WE have to offer. There's too much focus on taking, instead of giving, which is what a relationship is about. When I see those virginity/relationship threads, the first thing that comes to mind is - Are they even ready for a relationship or would they even make a decent partner? Factors like maturity, communication skills, conflict resolution skills are some things that need to be considered. Plus, without experience in an actual relationship, I think it can be difficult to really assess what one really wants/needs in a partner. We all have lists, but until you actually interact with said person, you don't quite know how they will affect you. Want to attract a better mate? Stop demanding, and work on self-improvement. A better you will most likely attract a better prospect.



tbyrfan said:


> It absolutely disgusts me that people actually do this. Imagine being an unattractive girl who never gets male attention and feels amazing after a guy actually pays attention to her and seems to like her, only for him to use her as a "stepping stone" of sorts and completely crush her hope and confidence. Despicable.


It disgusts me too honestly, that anyone, male or female would use someone like that. It's pathetic. People like that are honestly POS IMO.


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

Anxiety on High said:


> What I've noticed is men will take a woman no matter what: rather she is jobless, homeless, uneducated, so on an so forth. Most women on the other hand will tell a man tell a man to eff off if he's any of the above.
> 
> Why is this? I think guys should get out of this ****. If you're educated, require her to be educated too. If you're working, ditto. I think the whole dating scene would be much better off.


Based on what? How many people have you surveyed?


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## OutOfControlPanel (Jul 14, 2012)

N/A


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)




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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

TheDarkGuardian said:


> Same things happen to dudes as well, especially ugly ones who are rich. Seen them get used so many times which is sad. Guess that's what's messed up about the human race sometimes.


So true. :no It must suck never really knowing if a girl genuinely likes you or just wants your money.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

ItsEasierToRun said:


> I think you should get out of this generalisation ****! :roll


+1


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

tbyrfan said:


> So true. :no It must suck never really knowing if a girl genuinely likes you or just wants your money.


If I was rich, I wouldn't care. I'd be glad to get some attention, and if money works that way, then so be it.


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## TheDarkGuardian (Jun 1, 2013)

tbyrfan said:


> So true. :no It must suck never really knowing if a girl genuinely likes you or just wants your money.


Good way to test is to walk up to them one day and say I'm out of money. If they console you they genuinely like you.

If they run off, well then - ...


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## Mussolini (Jun 5, 2013)

Can you imagine of this really happened? Chicks would have just as much trouble as getting dates as guys do. DON'T DO IT:lol


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Usually it's an exchange of looks for money. Big deal.


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## Mussolini (Jun 5, 2013)

komorikun said:


> Usually it's an exchange of looks for money. Big deal.


Big deal my foot. If men started tightening up in this area, women would actually have to start doing this majestic thing called _work_. Sad isn't it:blank


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Mussolini said:


> Big deal my foot. If men started tightening up in this area, women would actually have to start doing this majestic thing called _work_. Sad isn't it:blank


Women don't work?? What!!??


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## Mussolini (Jun 5, 2013)

komorikun said:


> Women don't work?? What!!??


They do it because they want too, not because it will contribute to landing them a husband. This will change that.

Gender equality, right?:lol


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Mussolini said:


> They do it because they want too, not because it will contribute to landing them a husband.
> 
> Gender equality, right?:lol


I don't know what you are going on about. I don't see very many men with PhDs married to high school dropouts.


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## Mussolini (Jun 5, 2013)

komorikun said:


> I don't know what you are going on about. I don't see very many men with PhDs married to high school dropouts.


 But it happens and it's much more likely to happen one way around than the other and you know which.

The way things are changing, I wouldn't be surprised if men start looking at other factors and it eventually because the norm, especially seeing how divorce _strongly_ favors the person not contributing.

I think the OP is ahead of the curve.


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## Malek (Oct 4, 2012)

always starting over said:


> I've done the social thing, building a social circle at work and trying to meet women that way, as well as women they were friends with etc. They all slept with friends I had who were comfortable acting like dicks all the time instead. It's just unending frustration and stress. I'm giving up until I'm in my 30s and maybe making some solid money. Hopefully then I'll appear to have some value.
> 
> The ridiculous thing is I have a lot of skills that took a lot of discipline to develop. I have high standards for *myself* and what I do. Doesn't matter though. I'm decent looking and talented, but I'm just not attractive. That's what I've learned.


You and me both brother. Perhaps I'm just unlucky but every girl I've ever thought I had a chance with, ended up choosing some guy who is less mature, polite, educated and makes less if no money at all. It's quite amusing. Once a girl even flat out told my brother that I was more physically attractive than her boyfriend, also my childhood friend, who is more educated yes, yet still unemployed with a teacher's degree. She likes his personality more than mine because I had SA around her and was never around cause I was preoccupied with work, she never took the time to get to know me, why should I remain extending interest?

I just don't know, you can't know what someone else truly thinks about you unless you bluntly ask, and even then, they may be unsure themselves how to express it and it won't be as concise as you desire. All my ranting previously was mostly bitter resentment and jealously, which isn't attractive at all. Best we keep our true feelings to ourselves and only let them surface around the rare precious few we can risk trusting once in awhile...


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## sleepforeverandever (Mar 18, 2013)

I make more money than the guy im seeing and he's 7 years older than me *shrug* When it comes to love, things like that don't matter. Im a workaholic though and he focuses more on his personal life.
As long as we're both financially comfortable there's no issue. 

But I feel like he's "dating down" looks wise but that could just be my low self esteem talking.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

Malek said:


> You and me both brother. Perhaps I'm just unlucky but every girl I've ever thought I had a chance with, ended up choosing some guy who is less mature, polite, educated and makes less if no money at all. It's quite amusing. Once a girl even flat out told my brother that I was more physically attractive than her boyfriend, also my childhood friend, who is more educated yes, yet still unemployed with a teacher's degree. She likes his personality more than mine because I had SA around her and was never around cause I was preoccupied with work, she never took the time to get to know me, why should I remain extending interest?
> 
> I just don't know, you can't know what someone else truly thinks about you unless you bluntly ask, and even then, they may be unsure themselves how to express it and it won't be as concise as you desire. All my ranting previously was mostly bitter resentment and jealously, which isn't attractive at all. Best we keep our true feelings to ourselves and only let them surface around the rare precious few we can risk trusting once in awhile...


i remember calichick saying that she always goes out with guys who shes a little better then and guys who like her more than she likes him so that she would have control of the relationship...

so, hypothetically speaking ofcourse, if calichick isnt full of ****.... and other girls do this aswell, that could be your problem; the girls could be going for these less desirable guys because they know that they will have control of the relationship and they could know that you (being financially independent and not bad looking) would likely have other options... thus you wont be her puppy....

just a theory though but theres a slight possibility there might be something to it honestly... the higher i shoot the more success i seem to have and girls who i would say are average reject me pretty much every time and this would explain that if theres any truth to what calichick said at all... but i think its more likely just coincidence


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## Glass Child (Feb 28, 2013)

This seemed like it would be a rather interesting thread.
Instead I see a lot of insulting and blaming. Okay then.

I agree none the less. Except for those situations where you can't hold yourself back from the individual you love.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

In my experience, most of the people here have distorted views of themselves and everyone else. Men are doing exactly what they should be doing under the circumstances. When the choices are extremely limited, you take what you can get.


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## Mersault (Dec 18, 2012)

Actually i have - i think - rather high standards. Or at least few women i see seem of interest to me. Which is still better than none at all i guess...


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

Woman bashing thread

Is no matter who people are and where they come if they love each others.

I dated a guy without a job wohoo, who cares if he had a job or not. I kissed him and not a floor of his working building..


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

creasy said:


> "Truth time"? What part of this is truth? Sounds like just your opinion to me. But thanks for letting me know what my standards should be.


:yes


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Charmander said:


> Based on what? How many people have you surveyed?


Based on the modern dating scene. To deny that it happens is a bit on the foolish side hate to say.


SnowFlakesFire said:


> Woman bashing thread
> 
> Is no matter who people are and where they come if they love each others.
> 
> I dated a guy without a job wohoo, who cares if he had a job or not. I kissed him and not a floor of his working building..


Actually it's more of a male bashing thread. Men need to quit falling over themselves to date the women I discribed. If you're not a part of that camp, then there's no reason to be offended. simple as that.


PickleNose said:


> In my experience, most of the people here have distorted views of themselves and everyone else. Men are doing exactly what they should be doing under the circumstances. When the choices are extremely limited, you take what you can get.


I'm just saying in general. Obviously people with SA should take what they can get. But people who have sold options should consider more viable options, especially when talking about long term commitment.


Lynvana said:


> This seemed like it would be a rather interesting thread.
> Instead I see a lot of insulting and blaming. Okay then.
> 
> I agree none the less. Except for those situations where you can't hold yourself back from the individual you love.


Thank you. It seemed like everyone else jumped right into defense mode when they read this. I think it's a valid point.

Like the other guy said, divorce rates would dip drasticly every guy did something similar. I don't see what the problem is.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Mersault said:


> Actually i have - i think - rather high standards. Or at least few women i see seem of interest to me. Which is still better than none at all i guess...


I hope you don't mean looks, because that's exactly what I'm not talking about. Like for instance, don't turn down a woman because she's only a "-/10" in your eyes. You'll probably regret it.

Most women don't look that great w/o makeup anyways.


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

Anxiety on High said:


> Based on the modern dating scene. To deny that it happens is a bit on the foolish side hate to say.


Vague answer.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Anxiety on High said:


> 'm just saying in general. Obviously people with SA should take what they can get. But people who have sold options should consider more viable options


 Why? I think people should do as they please.


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## always starting over (Mar 15, 2013)

illmatic1 said:


> i remember calichick saying that she always goes out with guys who shes a little better then and guys who like her more than she likes him so that she would have control of the relationship...
> 
> so, hypothetically speaking ofcourse, if calichick isnt full of ****.... and other girls do this aswell, that could be your problem; the girls could be going for these less desirable guys because they know that they will have control of the relationship and they could know that you (being financially independent and not bad looking) would likely have other options... thus you wont be her puppy....
> 
> just a theory though but theres a slight possibility there might be something to it honestly... the higher i shoot the more success i seem to have and girls who i would say are average reject me pretty much every time and this would explain that if theres any truth to what calichick said at all... but i think its more likely just coincidence


I follow what you're saying here, and I'd say I've had way more frustration with average women too. It seems like they always want to play head games, because they know that most guys will think they're in her league. Thus, more men to mess with and higher perceived attraction. I've known some very hot women that were surprisingly down-to-Earth. It's not like I had a shot with them anyway, but they were confident without having to play games and be wishy washy about it.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Charmander said:


> Vague answer.


Not as vague as you think. It's as simple as that. I could find 100 examples of women requiring their men to have at least a good job and a car and 100 more of men that don't require the same, but you're probably brush that off too. It's just the way current gender roles are set up.

I'm saying since times are changing, and women want more rights, than this should change too.

One question I ask is...










If your not seeking out guys with cash, then it shouldn't matter.



PickleNose said:


> Why? I think people should do as they please.


Of course people can do what ever they want, but it doesn't mean they won't be misible doing it. If every man followed something similar, I think it would save them a world of heart ache in the long run. And the women that take advantage of males who don't would have to all get jobs and become productive members of society. It's a win, win.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Anxiety on High said:


> Of course people can do what ever they want, but it doesn't mean they won't be misible doing it. If every man followed something similar, I think it would save them a world of heart ache in the long run. And the women that take advantage of males who don't would have to all get jobs and become productive members of society. It's a win, win.


 For whom? Who cares about productiveness and society? I'm out for myself. I expect nothing less from females. They are thinking about themselves and they are absolutely correct in doing so. And they are not taking advantage of anyone. They are trading something that they have that's in demand for something that they want that someone else has.

Generally, the only remaining reason why these arrangements often end in bitterness is that people don't always understand their own motivations as well as they should.


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## Beingofglass (May 5, 2013)

I agree wholeheartedly. We should all have higher standards so we could all be motivated to be better. Atleast personality wise that would be really, really good.
The thing that appeals to me for lowering standards though; is getting some much valueable experience.


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## FlyPrezidente (Jun 7, 2013)

PickleNose said:


> For whom? Who cares about productiveness and society? I'm out for myself. I expect nothing less from females. They are thinking about themselves and they are absolutely correct in doing so. And they are not taking advantage of anyone. They are trading something that they have that's in demand for something that they want that someone else has.
> 
> Generally, the only remaining reason why these arrangements often end in bitterness is that people don't always understand their own motivations as well as they should.


You couldn't of said it any better. Thanks for helping me understand better.


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## guppy88 (Nov 12, 2010)

Anxiety on High said:


> What I've noticed is men will take a woman no matter what: rather she is jobless, homeless, uneducated, so on an so forth. Most women on the other hand will tell a man tell a man to eff off if he's any of the above.
> 
> Why is this? I think guys should get out of this ****. If you're educated, require her to be educated too. If you're working, ditto. I think the whole dating scene would be much better off.


So what? What if I like her. I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks about my gf but me. You should have the same standards as that too.

I have all of those things besides a limited education, which I have a tech degree. And the only reason I'm not in school is because I'm an athlete. So you're just going to throw me out the window because I don't have some piece of paper says I'm educated? You have no standards.


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## guppy88 (Nov 12, 2010)

And I have seen the same side too. I've seen women date guys over me who have no job, no motivation and anger issues. I can say the same about anyone.

I think the real thing to say is, i think people need to stop dating people who are bat**** crazy.And when I say that people need to date someone who is stable. Blue collar or white collar doesn't matter. That would just be segregation


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## Glass Child (Feb 28, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> Thank you. It seemed like everyone else jumped right into defense mode when they read this. I think it's a valid point.
> 
> Like the other guy said, divorce rates would dip drasticly every guy did something similar. I don't see what the problem is.


It isn't a problem until you begin to think everything is one sided.

I'd love for everyone to be equal as far as relationships and responsibility goes, but it doesn't happen like you want it to. Sometimes it is the men doing the hard work, sometimes it is the women trying to stabilize everything.

Real life example. My mother has bipolar and cannot work, and my father has supported us his entire life(me and my two sisters). However, her condition doesn't always limit her and she spends a ton of our money and doesn't work around the house. As much as we love her, and her the same to us, I have to pressure my father every damn day to get him to make her do something.

I never want to be like that. But we can't blame a specific gender and accuse them of leeching either. Men can be just as abusive and loaf. Of course our males need standards, as should everyone, but it is normal for females to have the same. It is called common sense, which isn't actually as damn common as we'd like.


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## CinnamonDelight (Jul 1, 2013)

That´s hilarious. From what i´ve observed it´s exactly the opposite. Some of the most mediocre to below average men will turn down women en the base of ´her legs are too short´ of ´I don´t like blondes´. 

I also feel like it´s almost always the least conventionally attractive men that will burn down attractive (celebrity) women.


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## CinnamonDelight (Jul 1, 2013)

mezzoforte said:


> I've seen a lot of guys on this site that have extremely high standards, despite being virgins and having no relationship experience. :stu But their standards have to do with the girl's appearance.


Quoted for the truth.


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## Anxiety on High (Jun 28, 2013)

Did you read the thread message or just the title? I made it clear I'm not talking about looks.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

It wouldn't matter for a hook up. But for a partner, she needs to have a job.


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## HilarityEnsues (Oct 4, 2012)

Anxiety on High said:


> What I've noticed is men will take a woman no matter what: rather she is jobless, homeless, uneducated, so on an so forth. Most women on the other hand will tell a man tell a man to eff off if he's any of the above.
> 
> Why is this? I think guys should get out of this ****. If you're educated, require her to be educated too. If you're working, ditto. I think the whole dating scene would be much better off.


I'm glad you posted this. The issue you listed in the last sentence of the first paragraph is why I've adopted two philosophies.

1) Disregard Females, Acquire Currency. 
2) FapFapFap.


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## CinnamonDelight (Jul 1, 2013)

Anxiety on High said:


> Did you read the thread message or just the title? I made it clear I'm not talking about looks.


Well, for the message the exact same applies.


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