# CBT never did me much good.



## JezZar (May 28, 2013)

Anyone actually had CBT and actually really benefited in the long run? 

I had CBT for last summer and tbh I never really was connived. Trying to change negative thoughts for more positive thoughts didnt last long. It is always an effort and most of my negative thoughts I'm not even conscious of I want to know where the ROOT of anxiety lies not the mere thoughts that follow. For me it barely scratched the surface, maybe my problem was me and that I did not put enough effort in but tbh the best thing about it was talking to the therapist and getting things of my chest rather than the process of CBT. 

Any thoughts?


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

I didn't have any success with it, MBCT either, DBT helped a little but not enough. Regular talk therapy didn't do much. I'm doing Somatic Experiencing now, its helping me, though I'm still messed up, but I don't get derealization anymore. Which is a big improvement. I'm going to keep at it. Traditional therapy told me to just not think about the derealization, what a joke.


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## JezZar (May 28, 2013)

> Traditional therapy told me to just not think about the derealization, what a joke.


Yeh, very true I thought the same thing CBT was trying to get me not to think my anxious thoughts but to think positive thoughts from an anxious mind. It doesn't quite work lol.


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Haha indeed, that's the problem i had. CBT is kind of an outdated method that somehow has been proven successful in clinical trials. I don't really know anyone that it has helped in real life, but on here I've seen some people have success with it or claim to anyways. The standard treatments haven't changed in along time, medications and CBT has been around along time and if they worked no one would be on this forum lol. I would have been cured 7 years ago. When therapy doesn't work they blame it on you, its bull. i think the people that are helped aren't helped in the way the therapy is designed to help, some people just need someone to talk with about their anxiety and that's enough to help them, once their reassured their not crazy and dont feel judged, they feel much better. But people like me and others who are pretty damaged need something a little different.


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## zoslow (Jun 2, 2014)

CBT did nothing for my BDD. What eventually ended up helping was changing the way I think myself without using some template for how I should do it. Thus I don't have much trust in it and haven't bothered trying it again. I think on my own but with help of medications I can achieve much better results as far as SA goes.


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## Cojack (Jul 21, 2014)

CBT was a waste of time for me, spent a lot of time talking about the problems but never directly tackling them or learning to work around/with them. Didn't help that my assigned therapist was off on sick leave more than I was. 

Needless to say it was knocked on the head and I moved onto other methods, hypnotherapy and telling myself to stop shying away from the world. #

It might be different for some people, can't imagine why they would still use it if it didn't work on the majority.


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## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

To be perfectly, deadly honest, I don't think any kind of therapy can really ever change what kind of person you are. It's all really down to you to change how you are, and your own outlook on life. I had CBT for depression (although, I also hoped it would aid my anxiety), and some of the considerations made during the course of the therapy still stick with me today, and do kind of help me a little. Ultimately, though, it was the simple principles, not the therapy itself, that really helped me. 

If you're seriously still struggling and searching for help, try hypnotherapy; I knew somebody that had it, and he apparently completely changed in terms of his anxiety. I don't know how expensive it is, but it may be worth looking into if you still want to search for something to help you.


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## Mindful Eyes (Dec 16, 2011)

I've received individual CBT twice, both from psychiatric residents. Sadly, it didn't benefited me and I wonder if it would have been more effective if my therapists were more experienced clinicians. But currently, I'm receiving escitalopram in 20 mg and bupropion XL in 150 mg. And they're benefiting me a great deal. I'm also going to try MBCT.

I do think that systematic graduated exposure is necessary for treating Social Anxiety Disorder, but I'm not sure that CBT does an adequate job in dealing with the emotions of the patient. That is, I doubt that CBT teaches them how to cope with their feelings. It just seems like they intellectualize about it.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Never been on a CBT course, but I have read up on it and it has helped me to consider my reactions to things with a more discerning eye. I still have SA but I question a lot of thoughts I have about situations and how people reacted to me and what they may be thinking, blah, blah. It also helped me with some of my anger issues but I have ADHD so impulsive anger is sometimes unavoidable when my life sucks. I also read a book on Gesthalt therapy and I have far better insight into my own motivations and problematic thought patterns. 

I can't really comment because I still have problems and still make mistakes but I am improving bit by bit as tine goes on. I think just getting into the habit of analyzing you behaviour and your thoughts and determining whether there is any other way to behave or think in any given situation is the point of CBT but maybe that gets lost in the process of someone who has never needed it trying to teach it to people who really do. IDK...


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## DeafBoy36 (Dec 12, 2009)

Therapy. What a joke. An expensive way of talking your issues when talking to your best friend can be free. Sometimes your best friend have more insight about you than the therapist. 

I have benefitted a LOT more just from hanging out with a SAS guy than just going to therapist. We shared our stories and we were like whoa, we were so much alike. So we shared our insights on how to cope. Therapists wouldn't understand anything about experiencing anxiety because most of them don't have it.


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## Nathes (Aug 3, 2014)

*CBT*

Goal of CBT is not about changing every negative thoughts you have into positive. Otherwise you could just sit in home and repeat positive affirmations witch is useless for someone with strong anxiety. CBT teaches you how to bring unrealistic thinking back to realistic. Not all negative thoughts are unrealistic. Depending on your anxiety level, CBT takes more effort and time. Trying to break your habitual,automatic thinking(witch you formed over many years) and creating a new automatic thinking does not happen in few days nor months.

I am practicing CBT for 4 months now and I can honestly say its benefits are very useful for overcoming SA. I had my ups and downs but its a lot about your effort really, like The Exodus said above. Understanding how your mind works and becoming aware of thoughts you have is not something you can achieve in few days just by thinking about. It took me 3 months just to realize what thoughts exactly are making me to panic and get anxious and many of them were unconscious and I wasnt even aware of them. They were triggering the automatic thinking, behaving and feeling and for years I lived like this witch eventually made my anxiety stronger.I am suffering from anxiety for many years so I knew it wouldn't just go away after 2-3 months of effort. I was hopeless, confused and nearly left my job because of SA but now my company have become one of my practice fields  I hope you can find the answer you looking for


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## Recessive J (Feb 18, 2014)

Damn there seems to be a lot of negative reviews on this  I'm pretty tight with money, I really don't wanna waste it on this if it doesn't work. But then meds never worked for me, they just f**ked me up even more, so I guess this is my best shot :/

Unless anyone knows any better alternatives, even if it's stuff I can do in my own home, I'd be really grateful if you could share them


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

The problems I have with CBT (some of these seem to be specific to me, others to the method itself) are:

1)Emotion often comes first. I will have a remnant of 'bad feeling' without any negative thoughts being present. This bad feeling will usually cause me to ruminate on what the issue is (I have pure O OCD as well). Thought challenging makes no impact because I am already aware these ruminations are irrational. In essence I think my pure O makes my brain work differently making the CBT model not apply. (CBT implies thoughts always come first, clearly incorrect in my case).

2)The idea that mental health can be solved by merely making people think more rationally implies that those _without_ mental health issues are more rational. i.e. _rationality correlates positively with mental health_. I find this highly unlikely as most people apply close to zero rational thought, they are highly driven by drives and emotions. Happier people in fact seem to be those who think least rationality in my experience.

3)CBT will want you to think rationally within the confines of its own (somewhat suspect) rules. Firstly I am not convinced these rules are entirely sound, secondly I believe if you live entirely by rationality the end result is nihilism (which, unsurprisingly CBT therapists wouldn't consider the end goal). CBT is only concerned with rationality _when it makes you feel better_. This might be ok for some, but for me this is rather unpalatable.

4)From a personal level I have extreme difficulty (as you may gather) from just 'accepting' CBT. There isn't much discussion of the philosophy behind CBT (my understanding is that it is in fact a *******ised version of stoicism) and you are briefly explained how it works and then supposed to just accept it without challenge. I am unable to do this which makes it very hard for me to get on board. We are talking here about changing the way you think about the world. For me, this isn't something to take on board lightly.

5)CBT has managed to (generally speaking) place the cause of therapeutic failure away from the therapist and onto the patient. In CBT you will very often hear things like *'it didn't work because you didn't work hard enough at it'*. In fact, because there is no minimum amount of workload indicated for success, this is a great excuse as to the failure of the therapy as it one can always 'work harder'. Add to this that depressed people _clinically_ lack motivation, and this excuse for failure ends up amounting to *'the therapy didn't cure your depression because you need to not be depressed for it to work'*. A touch circular 

6)CBT implies that mental health problems are mostly due to erroneous thinking and not physical causes. It implicitly seems to suggest that there is a mind independent of the physical brain. If you have clear physical causes for some illnesses (some depressions, OCD etc) adopting a rational thinking style will not modify the physical nature of the illness. CBT (to my understanding) simply ignores the physical nature of the brain. In CBT's defense however, this might just be a case of therapists _having to adopt_ a positive outlook when in front of a client (so my perception of this might not be true of CBT at large).

This critique aside, my feeling that when CBT is successful it is likely that the patients problem is relatively uncomplicated, i.e. there aren't comorbidities, especially those such as depression which _will_ affect the patients ability to do the work.


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## Slytherclaw (Jul 16, 2011)

I did CBT for four years, age 14-18...and I'm still here, so that should tell you something.

I personally think therapy is just wasted money. It's nice to have a neutral third party to talk to every so often... but I'd rather just work on it myself. I learned some okay coping techniques, but it mostly just it very clear that "deep breathing exercises" with soothing ocean/thunderstorm sounds playing in the background does not help me. Or constantly being asked, "But _why _did you feel that way?"

The most progress I ever made was when I graduated high school and got a job, and then again when I got out of an abusive relationship. It's those kinds of reality checks that help me combat my anxiety.



splendidbob said:


> The problems I have with CBT (some of these seem to be specific to me, others to the method itself) are:
> 
> 1)Emotion often comes first. I will have a remnant of 'bad feeling' without any negative thoughts being present. This bad feeling will usually cause me to ruminate on what the issue is (I have pure O OCD as well). Thought challenging makes no impact because I am already aware these ruminations are irrational. In essence I think my pure O makes my brain work differently making the CBT model not apply. (CBT implies thoughts always come first, clearly incorrect in my case).
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## pierrotlefou (Aug 21, 2014)

splendidbob said:


> 4)From a personal level I have extreme difficulty (as you may gather) from just 'accepting' CBT. There isn't much discussion of the philosophy behind CBT (my understanding is that it is in fact a *******ised version of stoicism) and you are briefly explained how it works and then supposed to just accept it without challenge. I am unable to do this which makes it very hard for me to get on board. We are talking here about changing the way you think about the world. For me, this isn't something to take on board lightly.


I also have a problem accepting the basic assumptions of CBT. A lot of second-hand stoicism in it, indeed. 
Another reason why I'm reluctant to undergo this type of therapy is its savage individualism, though I believe this doesn't bother you at all.  
Training yourself to become completely oblivious to what others think of you isn't something I'm after. I prefer going on living with shame and guilt until I find something better. CBT - just an elaborate version of "it all depends on you" and "suck it up" (when things don't go as planned).


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## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

My problem with CBT was that my therapist was kind of thick. We spent three sessions "discovering" that I feel less depressed if I go outside or spend time around my family.


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## Restforthehopeless (Jun 12, 2013)

My problem with CBT is that it assumes that all of your negative thoughts are irrational or false, but what if some of them are actually true? I went thru CBT and it helped a little but not much, mainly because many of my negative thoughts were true, and I'm not gonna lie to myself to make them more positive. Exposure therapy only works when you can have several good outcomes. For me, it worked for my anxiety when ordering food at a restaurant. The more I did it the less anxious I became. But that's something that is pretty straight-forward. When it comes to making friends or conversing with strangers, I'm exposed to that all the time but because I can rarely achieve a good outcome my anxiety level is still high. Therapy just doesn't work. At least not for someone with severe SA. Meds are the best option and even they don't work that much. The most we can do is just endure this sucky life and hope for something better in the future.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Badger is always going to be a badger. Mousey is always going to be mousey. People who have suffered SA there entire life are always going to have it lingering there in the background. But what you do with your life in spite of it depends on how you think about things. And this is true of anyone, socially anxious or not. Maybe people should go and read a little about therapy before engaging with it. Don't just rely on an "expert" to magic away your problems. It's you brain and your life.


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## LRW (Aug 28, 2014)

*Its not just in studies*

Seeing that so many are finding CBT unsuccessful is so interesting to me, and sad and disappointing. If I may make a suggestion, consider reading Dr. David Burns' CBT tutorial, called The Feeling Good Handbook. This is an inexpensive and self-paced way to learn to do CBT. In a nutshell, thoughts really do come before feelings, and CBT seeks to help us change the (often irrational) way we think about events/issues so that our feelings related to those events/issues are less dramatic. I often suggest that CBT helps us talk to ourselves the way we would talk to a friend, rather than with our current self-talk voice, if that makes sense.

My 2nd bit of advice after reading Dr. Burns' book is, if you have an iPhone or iPad, to get the app iCBT which will let you practice CBT quickly and privately on your cell phone in the moment of anxiety. In my opinion, this is hugely beneficial.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

LRW said:


> Seeing that so many are finding CBT unsuccessful is so interesting to me, and sad and disappointing. If I may make a suggestion, consider reading Dr. David Burns' CBT tutorial, called The Feeling Good Handbook. This is an inexpensive and self-paced way to learn to do CBT. In a nutshell, thoughts really do come before feelings, and CBT seeks to help us change the (often irrational) way we think about events/issues so that our feelings related to those events/issues are less dramatic. I often suggest that CBT helps us talk to ourselves the way we would talk to a friend, rather than with our current self-talk voice, if that makes sense.
> 
> My 2nd bit of advice after reading Dr. Burns' book is, if you have an iPhone or iPad, to get the app iCBT which will let you practice CBT quickly and privately on your cell phone in the moment of anxiety. In my opinion, this is hugely beneficial.


Hi Dr Burns, hows things?


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## Dre12 (Jul 25, 2014)

lisbeth said:


> My problem with CBT was that my therapist was kind of thick. We spent three sessions "discovering" that I feel less depressed if I go outside or spend time around my family.


Are you sure that your therapist was thick, how much did you pay them for that insight?


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## LRW (Aug 28, 2014)

splendidbob said:


> Hi Dr Burns, hows things?


I actually did speak with him once. Seemed like a nice enough man.

- Big fan of CBT! It can help and it can be done with a therapist or by oneself (using a paper & pen or spreadsheet or iCBT or other app).


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## Wagnerian (Aug 5, 2014)

CBT is the main treatment for OCD. It seems to work fairly well for people.

But I sense that my problems are bigger than how I think, especially since it's sometimes impossible for me to control my thoughts because the emotion that precedes them is so powerful. In many situations, there's no way I'm going to feel anything other than REALLY ****ty.

With that said, I think the basic premise of directing your thinking being ABLE to change how you feel is correct.


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## LRW (Aug 28, 2014)

Wagnerian said:


> CBT is the main treatment for OCD. It seems to work fairly well for people.
> 
> But I sense that my problems are bigger than how I think, especially since it's sometimes impossible for me to control my thoughts because the emotion that precedes them is so powerful. In many situations, there's no way I'm going to feel anything other than REALLY ****ty.
> 
> With that said, I think the basic premise of directing your thinking being ABLE to change how you feel is correct.


 @Wagnerian: It is my understanding that in some situations the brain unleashes a torrent of negative messaging and that for many (most?) people, those messages are ignored or filtered out by the brain easily, but for some people those messages make it all the way *down* to be really disturbing and distracting. My point is only that it is my understanding that the thought still proceeds the emotion, even if the emotion is "Oh ****" due to the flood of distressing messages.
FWIW, I have a very personal non-really-an-emotion emotion setup in iCBT, so that I can add that to my list of emotions when practicing CBT. To use your situation, if I was feeling like I had screwed up some new relationship, I might say I was feeling: angry (with myself) 98%, disappointed (with myself) 100%, and REALLY ****ty 100%. Then I proceed with the CBT process. At the end, when I check my emotions, I might find I feel angry 40%, disappointed 15% and REALLY ****ty 12%. That is, for me, the negative emotions don't disappear with the CBT, but they dissipate allowing me to have the confidence and clear head to move forward and/or sleep that night. And the not-really-an-emotion emotion encapsulates a feeling or set of feelings or negative self-talk that needed to be addressed.
.....


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## Wagnerian (Aug 5, 2014)

LRW said:


> @*Wagnerian*: It is my understanding that in some situations the brain unleashes a torrent of negative messaging and that for many (most?) people, those messages are ignored or filtered out by the brain easily, but for some people those messages make it all the way *down* to be really disturbing and distracting. My point is only that it is my understanding that the thought still proceeds the emotion, even if the emotion is "Oh ****" due to the flood of distressing messages.
> FWIW, I have a very personal non-really-an-emotion emotion setup in iCBT, so that I can add that to my list of emotions when practicing CBT. To use your situation, if I was feeling like I had screwed up some new relationship, I might say I was feeling: angry (with myself) 98%, disappointed (with myself) 100%, and REALLY ****ty 100%. Then I proceed with the CBT process. At the end, when I check my emotions, I might find I feel angry 40%, disappointed 15% and REALLY ****ty 12%. That is, for me, the negative emotions don't disappear with the CBT, but they dissipate allowing me to have the confidence and clear head to move forward and/or sleep that night. And the not-really-an-emotion emotion encapsulates a feeling or set of feelings or negative self-talk that needed to be addressed.
> .....


I mean, the only thing I can say that I've experienced things that are beyond the power of CBT or anything other than an unexpected windfall/ miracle to ameliorate.....I think CBT/ directed thinking is a great tool for people, so I'm not bashing it. I usually have at least a few instances throughout the day where I will make an effort to direct my thinking, so I guess you could say I use it in any case.

Fun fact: The guy who developed CBT (Aaron Beck) lives down the street from my dad. Never seen him though, he's like 90 or something.


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## LRW (Aug 28, 2014)

Wagnerian said:


> Fun fact: The guy who developed CBT (Aaron Beck) lives down the street from my dad. Never seen him though, he's like 90 or something.


It must be tempting to talk with him....


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## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

Dre12 said:


> Are you sure that your therapist was thick, how much did you pay them for that insight?


Nothing. IDK how much the NHS paid her though.


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## Dre12 (Jul 25, 2014)

lisbeth said:


> Nothing. IDK how much the NHS paid her though.


Maybe you should go private. That way your arrogance can make people rich until you die.


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## Gamaur (Jul 10, 2014)

I'm just about to start this with a new psychologist I'm seeing, only it'll be focused on helping my depression.

The reviews here are pretty consistent with the general consensus on therapy that i've noticed on SAS. It obviously requires a lot of buy-in to be effective, but all psychological therapy does, even hypnotherapy. If you haven't taken most of the responsibility on your own shoulders the only thing that will illicite a change for you is medication. 

I'm still dubious about the process but only because of how far I've been with introspection and meditation already. From what I've read and heard CBT may be a step backwards compared to that. Still, never hurts to give something a try.


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## Gamaur (Jul 10, 2014)

Dre12 said:


> Maybe you should go private. That way your arrogance can make people rich until you die.


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## SlowburningKarma420 (Aug 12, 2014)

lisbeth said:


> My problem with CBT was that my therapist was kind of thick. We spent three sessions "discovering" that I feel less depressed if I go outside or spend time around my family.


 I had a very similar experience. I feel I maybe could have gotten more out of it if not for the therapist I had at the time. I went into it thinking positively, but got nothing out of it. I would give it a try again, if not for the time and money I wasted on it last time. The only reason I would try again, I have heard of positive outcomes and I believe it can work, I'm also not 100% convinced it would not work for me.


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## uselessgoodfornothing (Sep 10, 2013)

idk

its kinda like

if you think you're ugly

and you are

and they just say

dont think that

its like

....

but i am


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## LRW (Aug 28, 2014)

Here's how you might apply CBT to this thought/interaction - I'm just using my imagination and life experiences to try to address your thoughts on your appearance. Your thoughts and inner voice will be different. But the idea of how to work it through remains.

(To make this easy on myself, I did the work in iCBT and have pasted images from that.)

1) Here's how I (might) feel. Notice I've rated the strength of my emotions.









2) Here are my thoughts about my ugliness









3) Now I consider how my first thought is "distorted" or, put another way, is unfair to myself. 









4) Then I write a new way of expressing something similar, but not falling into any of the standard distortion traps. You'll notice this requires I be less absolutist. (Is that a word?)









5) I do the same with the second thought

















6) Now I review my initial problem and my current thoughts about it.









7) And I reconsider my emotions and their strength. At least for me, I feel better (not perfect, of course) every time I do CBT.









Hope this was helpful.


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