# Who Determines Your Sexuality?



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

I'm not sure if this falls under relationships or general discussion. 

Who or how do you think your sexuality is determined? Do you think it is determined for you or do you think you are in complete control. Do you think it is a mix of both? 

Personal Example. I feel like I could walk into a gay bar and come out with a phone number a date and even a partner easily. I could walk into a straight bar attempt to get a phone number but fail, treated badly and have no shot at finding a partner. Does this inherently mean that I was intended to attract men and not attract women. Do people/society determine whether you are gay or straight? Does this make sense to anyone else? Impulsively I'm attracted to women. I guess I admire those men that are in shape but it's a different feeling. Also when I look at women I feel like they are repulsed and offended while men don't seem to mind. On a subconscious level could it be my own body is telling me that I wasn't intended for women?

I guess I'm way late on questioning my sexuality but I always attributed my failure to sa. Maybe it's just instinctually women have no attraction to me while men do.


----------



## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

I think society does more at first. Esp if you have low self esteem or self worth. You just try to do what everyone else does to fit in, that includes sexuality. Thats why there are so many late bloomers coming out of the closet with years of heterosexual marriages. Ultimately you do but society has a strong influence. There comes a time where you can't control your natural urges, they will just surface.


----------



## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

scairy said:


> I feel like I could walk into a gay bar and come out with a phone number a date and even a partner easily. I could walk into a straight bar attempt to get a phone number but fail, treated badly and have no shot at finding a partner.


I feel the same way. Sad but true.

I think sexuality is mostly determined from birth.


----------



## ericj (Jun 20, 2007)

I wish I was gay, because I have the same experiences. Gay men hit on me, while women avoid or reject me. It would be so much easier...


----------



## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

I wish everyone who wished they were gay would get the experience so you'll realize how much easier you have it being straight :yes

I think it's something you're born with. From the gay folks I've known.. a majority went through a trying to be straight phase. Not half assed attempts either. Doesn't seem possible to change who/what you're attracted to :stu


----------



## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Which is why its good to be bi sexual 

P.S. - me


----------



## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

mserychic said:


> I wish everyone who wished they were gay would get the experience so you'll realize how much easier you have it being straight :yes
> 
> I think it's something you're born with. From the gay folks I've known.. a majority went through a trying to be straight phase. Not half assed attempts either. Doesn't seem possible to change who/what you're attracted to :stu


Well said Kori. I certainly didnt "choose" to be straight, its just the way I am....same as it is for someone who is gay. I dont believe on chooses their sexual orientation...people get a lot of crap for being gay and are ostracized for it (which is simply ignorant but that is a whole other thread) by even their own family members, would anyone really "choose" that??? Obviously no, they wouldnt, its just who they are. I dont believe gay relationships are any easier than hetero ones, in fact with the added societal pressures its probably (seems to me anyway, feel free to correct me if I am seeing this wrong) harder.


----------



## leppardess (Nov 8, 2003)

Penny said:


> mserychic said:
> 
> 
> > I wish everyone who wished they were gay would get the experience so you'll realize how much easier you have it being straight :yes
> ...


I agree... well said Kori :squeeze And well said, Penny :squeeze I honestly can't add anymore to that other than, the gay people that I've known in my past had just as tough a time with relationships as straight people, if anything, most of them were more turbulent.


----------



## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

I don't think it's genetic, but I'm not saying that people wake up one day and say, "Hey, I think it's cool to be straight, so I'll be straight!"

There are a lot of factors in one's upbringing that can affect what type of people you want to be with.

I am almost certain that the types of people I'm attracted to are due to my environment and how I was raised.


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

vicente said:


> I don't think it's genetic, but I'm not saying that people wake up one day and say, "Hey, I think it's cool to be straight, so I'll be straight!"
> 
> There are a lot of factors in one's upbringing that can affect what type of people you want to be with.
> 
> I am almost certain that the types of people I'm attracted to are due to my environment and how I was raised.


There is definitely an environmental factor. I know 3 people that became gay. 1 became gay after being in an abusive relationship. The other two became gay after a broken marriage. I'm not saying the environment caused it completely but I do believe it does have an impact.

Well, based on the responses I'm guessing I'm not gay?


----------



## leppardess (Nov 8, 2003)

scairy said:


> There is definitely an environmental factor. I know 3 people that became gay. 1 became gay after being in an abusive relationship. The other two became gay after a broken marriage. I'm not saying the environment caused it completely but I do believe it does have an impact.


I've known quite a few people that lived most of their lives as straight people, got married, had kids only to discover themselves later in life. I honestly don't believe that you can 'turn' gay though.

One person that I knew very well accepted the fact that she was gay not too long ago and she's a few years older than I am (I'm 44, btw). All her life, she was unhappy with herself. She went through years of therapy, numerous meds, years of hating herself, all the while, she had gotten married and divorced many times, having numerous affairs with men and having a child by one of her husbands.

So, if anything, the way she was raised (strict religious upbringing) kept her from discovering who she really was until she was older and felt that she had the freedom to explore this aspect of herself. Once she discovered this aspect of herself, she was more at peace with herself and her life in general that she didn't need therapy anymore.

You'd be surprised how many people try so hard to fit into the 'straight' mold to be accepted in general but inside, they're tearing themselves apart because they're living a life that isn't what they were really meant to live.


----------



## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

I don't think sexuality is "hard-wired" but it's incredibly difficult to change. When you've lived your whole life with one identity you can't easily change to another, even if you spend years trying to do so.

This of course, doesn't include the (frequent) cases where people have been gay all along but never accepted it.


----------



## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

scairy said:


> Well, based on the responses I'm guessing I'm not gay?


Are you attracted to guys? Do you think about them sexually? Do you want a relationship with a guy? Can you see yrself spending yr life with a guy? Those are the kinds of questions you have to ask yrself to find out


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

mserychic said:


> scairy said:
> 
> 
> > Well, based on the responses I'm guessing I'm not gay?
> ...


Like I said I don't feel an impulsive attraction to them but if I see a guy that is in great shape I admire it. I don't really think anything sexually towards a man. I wouldn't have a problem living with a guy for the rest of my life if he was respectful and we had things in common.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Whenever I think of questions like this one about anything -questions like: "How do you know what is right for you?" -which is really the only valid question, I actually remember (excuse me for getting Biblical) but I am reminded of Jesus saying the parable of the Good Samaritan when a guy asked him a similar kind of question.

The parable is basically: be compassionate (and open minded) to everyone. And the guy's question was actually: "Who is my neighbour?" In response to the commandment "be kind to your neighbour" this guy went and asked, "But who is my neighbour"; and to me that is the same as asking, "but who is like me and who and what should I judge as acceptable".

And I figure that Jesus gets him to figure out that everyone is his neighbour, because without opening your heart and mind as much as possible, you can't even figure out what is 'right' for you in the first place.

And this needn't be threatening. Since a person still keeps their own feelings and preferences, it is just that they develop more flexibility and balance in their perspective on things. And this actually strengthens their own preference. It's when people judge and block-out certain people as 'wrong' and don't see what validity there is to another's feelings and opinion -this is when damage is done to the individual's opinion. -There is no strength given to it.

So, that's my basic answer. To refrain from judgements. To notice when you slip into making judgements (often without thinking at all) and extend your empathy instead. This makes a person pretty sure of who they are and where they stand according to changing situations and a diverse range of opinions.
Also, it means that to a certain extent a person can 'make it up as they go'!! ...which is pretty cool when you think about it. 
Kind of like living within a lack of self-definition allows you to define yourself with freedom.


----------



## Mayflower 2000 (Nov 11, 2003)

justlistening said:


> 2 weeks ago I've met a girl who was bisexual and I really don't know what to think about that.
> Does it mean she eventually would want to have sex and/or a relationship with a woman?
> And does it mean that both sexes can turn her on for the full 100%? If so, then bisexual people are blessed like nothing else on this planet! Seriously, I have such a hard time to understand and believe that someone can be physically attracted to both sexes with the same passion as straight or gay people are attracted to one gender.


It varies a lot, but most bisexuals are not equal preference... they tend to be more often attracted to one gender or another, and it's individual specific. 
I don't know but I wonder if a lot of it is down to things like personality types (masculine/feminine) rather than gender itself or looks alone.

I think sexual preference is mostly set/uncontrollable, but humans are certainly dynamic with sexual activity. Almost half of all men have had a sexual experience with men... does that make them bi/gay? No. And yet a significant portion of them probably enjoyed their **** experiences. A lot of straight women end up having a lesbian partner in female prisons. And anyway, isn't everyone bisexual when they're drunk? Just wondering. :eyes


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Yeah, I don't really know about that term "bisexual". Perhaps there are some people who fit into it more than others and really are at ease being with people of both genders.

My hunch however is that a lot more people, probably a good chunk of the population actually are to an extent bisexual. I think that all people probably have a degree of attraction to the same gender. And there is some room for choosing what you want.

Perhaps there is genuinely 'bisexual', but more often there is just plain 'openminded'.


----------



## Broshious (Dec 23, 2006)

Mayflower 2000 said:


> I think sexual preference is mostly set/uncontrollable, but humans are certainly dynamic with sexual activity. Almost half of all men have had a sexual experience with men... does that make them bi/gay? No. And yet a significant portion of them probably enjoyed their **** experiences. A lot of straight women end up having a lesbian partner in female prisons. And anyway, isn't everyone bisexual when they're drunk? Just wondering. :eyes


Source on that about half of all men having had a sexual experience with men?

As far as the science behind sexuality, there was a guy on the Colbert report who was talking about how subsequent male children are increasingly more likely to be gay to do some complicated sciencey thing. Also, they did a study where they exposed gay men to male and female pheromones, and the gay men reacted only to the male pheromones. Now, this could be a learned behavior of course, but I strongly feel that sexuality is determined from birth. Although I feel that most things are determined from birth =P


----------



## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

As the reigning queen of SAS I'll put my 2 cents in. I had my first crush on a boy when I was 6 yo. It was nothing sexual. I only knew that I liked being close to him. 

I believe it to be mostly genetic but partially environmental. Someone can have a predisposition towards their own gender but not act on it out of environmental pressures. Any left-handers out there that were forced to use their right hand? 

As for who is attracted to you, That's a bit more difficult. I'm assuming that you are of at least average looks. You probably don't put out much of a "gay vibe" since you say woman could care less if you exist. For some weird, unknown reason women seem to like hanging around gay guys. At times, I've found myself attracted to guys for no reason. They were not physically, what I normally consider to be my type and yet I felt a strong attraction. I have a friend who is in his 60s, short, fat and generally unattractive. Somehow he always seems to find his "husband du jour". I'm baffled as to how he does it. I think it has to do with pheromones. Perhaps your pheromones makes you more attractive to men than to women. 

I realize how frustrating this can be. I've lived my life getting hit on by women and having the majority of men ignore me.


----------



## Mayflower 2000 (Nov 11, 2003)

Broshious said:


> Source on that about half of all men having had a sexual experience with men?


from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#The_Kinsey_Reports and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Sexual_orientation



> The Kinsey reports also state that nearly 46% of the male subjects had "reacted" sexually to persons of both sexes in the course of their adult lives, and 37% had at least one homosexual experience.[1]





> Paul Gebhard, Kinsey's successor as director of the Kinsey Institute for Sex Research, dedicated years to reviewing the Kinsey data and culling its purported contaminants. In 1979, Gebhard (with Alan B. Johnson) concluded that none of Kinsey's original estimates were significantly affected by the perceived bias, finding that 36.4% of men had engaged in both heterosexual and homosexual activities, as opposed to Kinsey's 37%.


This back in the supposedly sexual repressive years! Wonder how prevalent it is today.


----------



## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

I'm not gay, but gay men like me as well. Women like me too. But I just think it's your character makeup, which has nothing to do with if your gay or not. You or I may exhibit more androgynous/feminine characteristics, and it may take time to feel comfortable exhibiting the traditional masculine characteristics to women, and there are reasons for that as well. You know who should weigh in on this thread?? Ruby Tuesday. Oh she already has, lol.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

FairleighCalm said:


> I'm not gay, but gay men like me as well. Women like me too. But I just think it's your character makeup, which has nothing to do with if your gay or not. You or I may exhibit more androgynous/feminine characteristics, and it may take time to feel comfortable exhibiting the traditional masculine characteristics to women, and there are reasons for that as well. You know who should weigh in on this thread?? Ruby Tuesday. Oh she already has, lol.


  ...yeah, I've kind of decided that it's all really rather like a big mixture the whole gender and sexual identity. People are just way to complicated and dynamic to put into any real category. And even when we do do this, it usually causes some sort of trouble -locking a person into being or acting a certain way when we are always changing to some degree.

Better to go with the flow and just keep perhaps a pretty general idea of whereabouts you stand.


----------



## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Thursday I dressed very styly and someone called me a "girl", teasing but none the less I wasn't in the mood. So I said, "just becaue I'm a pretty man who can match colors and patterns shouldn't threaten you. Especially since you're a handsome woman who can wear sackcloth very well". HAHA, put her in her place!


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Amocholes said:


> As the reigning queen of SAS I'll put my 2 cents in. I had my first crush on a boy when I was 6 yo. It was nothing sexual. I only knew that I liked being close to him.
> 
> I believe it to be mostly genetic but partially environmental. Someone can have a predisposition towards their own gender but not act on it out of environmental pressures. Any left-handers out there that were forced to use their right hand?
> 
> ...


...I wondered about 'pheromones' ...but it's an unusual topic... :con A long time ago, when I was younger, I had one or two odd days when men would act very strange around me. A friend of my sister's made a point of walking up to me and chatting me up in front of his mates, and this other guy I knew walked up to me and knelt down in front of me and just stayed there for about 10 seconds -no explanation, no nothing (and he would normally never do something like that and generally wasn't interested in me either). ...a bit bizarre and you may think that I'm making this up... I remembered checking my self out to see if it was because I was looking extra nice, but honestly looked crappier than usual. ...so I figured I must have some pretty hot looking pheromones!! :lol ...then again, I am an artist, and we are considered as some of the most attractive people :teeth :duck ....that, as well as more inclined towards insanity :eyes :hide


----------



## parsimoniously yours (Nov 10, 2007)

Sexuality, like just about everything else about a person, is determined by both environment & genes, & by the interaction of the two. Take, for example, a mother's third son. B/c the mother's body is likely, after 2 boys' births, to produce a lower amount of androgens, he is more likely than his older brothers to be gay. The concentration of androgens is part of the boy's environment within the womb. His particular body's particular response to this particular concentration of angrogens is due to his genes.

Look at the smell test: A man smells 5 shirts worn to bed for 2 days by five different women & rates them according to how pleasing they smell. A geneticist looks at a few marker genes of all six participants & categorizes the women according to how different they are from the man's genes. The man's ratings & the geneticist's list match. The man finds most pleasing the scent of the woman whose genes are most unlike his--that is, the woman with whom he would father the most genetically diverse, genetically versatile child. When shown pictures of the 5 women, assuming that they are generally as attractive as one another, his ratings of their attractiveness will correspond to his smell ratings. This works for women rating men, too. But I don't know about men rating men or women rating women. 

You can be in control of your sexuality, in a sense. You could simply decide to behave heterosexually or homosexually or asexually or bisexually. But who you "really" are is a mix of genes & experience. I read a few months ago about a study done on men who claimed to be bisexual. The researches showed them gay & straight erotica & measured their arousal. They also tested men who professed to be straight or gay. The bisexual men, all 18 of them (I think that was the number) in this study had responses like gay or straight men. Their sexual arousal was entirely in one direction. It may be that although the physical drive of these men was either purely heterosexual or purely homosexual, there are in place other emotional "modules" of the mind that steer their behavior toward homosexuality in one instance & heterosexuality in another. I have heard that women tend to be more open when it comes to sexual preference. If so, it may be because those emotional modules come into play more for women than for men. 

Borderline personality disorder, which affects many more women than men, & which is characterized by intensely felt emotions & extreme emotional lability, has as a symptom confusion about self-identity, including sexual identity. My ex-girlfriend suffers from BPD & considers herself straight despite a history of bisexuality & an admitted preference for women when it comes to sex & porn. It may be that although she is sexually attracted to women, men provide her with some emotional something that women do not or, as yet, have not. She has told me that men are also just simpler. They're "easy to read"--she knows what men want. Women aren't so simple & are therefore more risky, perhaps, more frightening, to someone whose BPD engenders an intense & desperate fear of being alone or of being abandoned.


----------



## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

Speaking of pheromones, what the heck do they put in men's cologne that's so pleasing? Especially drakkar, I actually bought one of those tiny little bottles and wore it myself, I felt great!


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

FairleighCalm said:


> Thursday I dressed very styly and someone called me a "girl", teasing but none the less I wasn't in the mood. So I said, "just becaue I'm a pretty man who can match colors and patterns shouldn't threaten you. Especially since you're a handsome woman who can wear sackcloth very well". HAHA, put her in her place!


Wow what was her response!?


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

parsimoniously yours said:


> Sexuality, like just about everything else about a person, is determined by both environment & genes, & by the interaction of the two. Take, for example, a mother's third son. B/c the mother's body is likely, after 2 boys' births, to produce a lower amount of androgens, he is more likely than his older brothers to be gay. The concentration of androgens is part of the boy's environment within the womb. His particular body's particular response to this particular concentration of angrogens is due to his genes.
> 
> Look at the smell test: A man smells 5 shirts worn to bed for 2 days by five different women & rates them according to how pleasing they smell. A geneticist looks at a few marker genes of all six participants & categorizes the women according to how different they are from the man's genes. The man's ratings & the geneticist's list match. The man finds most pleasing the scent of the woman whose genes are most unlike his--that is, the woman with whom he would father the most genetically diverse, genetically versatile child. When shown pictures of the 5 women, assuming that they are generally as attractive as one another, his ratings of their attractiveness will correspond to his smell ratings. This works for women rating men, too. But I don't know about men rating men or women rating women.
> 
> ...


Interesting post :thanks


----------



## parsimoniously yours (Nov 10, 2007)

Mayflower 2000 said:


> Broshious said:
> 
> 
> > Source on that about half of all men having had a sexual experience with men?
> ...


I wanted to note before that the Kinsey Reports are very flawed. The sample is unrepresentative, consisting of White, relatively well-educated, middle class individuals who were willing to volunteer information about their sex lives to strangers. The fact that 37% of those men had gay sex doesn't say much of anything about the rest of the country. Also, his findings relied on self-reports, which are, of course, unreliable.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

parsimoniously yours said:


> Borderline personality disorder, which affects many more women than men, & which is characterized by intensely felt emotions & extreme emotional lability, has as a symptom confusion about self-identity, including sexual identity.


....I sound like I have or had BPD!

I actually read a study on homosexuality in a New Scientist magazine that revealed that on average, gay men had both more masculine overall physique (bigger, taller, more broad shouldered) and also apparently had bigger penises.

...No wonder women are often attracted to gay men. They are very masculine and yet often are 'in touch with their feminine side'.


----------



## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

> Wow what was her response!?


She took it well. She realized that she was mean to me ...teasing me when I wasn't in the mood. She and I go way back and usually rip on each other for fun. But she really got under my nerves. Sometimes people are so HAYSEED.


----------



## Mayflower 2000 (Nov 11, 2003)

parsimoniously yours said:


> [quote="Mayflower 2000":1ragnlwu]
> 
> 
> Broshious said:
> ...


I wanted to note before that the Kinsey Reports are very flawed. The sample is unrepresentative, consisting of White, relatively well-educated, middle class individuals who were willing to volunteer information about their sex lives to strangers. The fact that 37% of those men had gay sex doesn't say much of anything about the rest of the country. Also, his findings relied on self-reports, which are, of course, unreliable.[/quote:1ragnlwu]

Did you even read my post? It mentioned how a separate study came up with the same statistics as Kinseys.
You can make the argument that any scientific evidence is worthless, but that's besides the point (source) and could be used to criticize the legitimacy of anything, including gravity.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

...speaking of theories on sexuality: I've always had the theory that hyper heterosexuality and homosexuality are linked. 

My "proof" is observing how men sometimes fantasise about lesbian's having sex with each other, and also how women often are attracted to gay men (along with the New Scientist study that showed gay men on average to have more masculine physiques than average heterosexual men). 

Also, I remember a girl I knew in highschool who could be described as having been promiscuous but who eventually discovered that she was homosexual.

Also, I notice sometimes the homophobic reaction of some men to gay men. And I figure that the reason why such "polar opposite" heterosexuals would feel threatened by "polar opposite" homosexual men, is in actual fact because the smallest differences exist between people who are most "opposite" to one another.

My other "theory" is that after a certain point, hormones 'switch' a person's orientation. 

....So there you go: scientific proof at its finest!! (just kidding!)


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

I saw a girl the other day, no I didn't talk to her but I know I'm straight now :mushy :lol


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

My junk


----------



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

scairy said:


> I saw a girl the other day, no I didn't talk to her but I know I'm straight now :mushy :lol


That reminds me of a comedy sketch done by the comedian who used to play the crazy dude on Police Academy movies. ...can someone help me out with his name?! ....but he was talking about moments of possible attraction to men, and then a good looking woman walking by and him being suddenly convinced of his heterosexuality!


----------



## parsimoniously yours (Nov 10, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> [...]the comedian who used to play the crazy dude on Police Academy movies. ...can someone help me out with his name?! ....


Bobcat Goldthwait?


----------



## leavemealone158 (Nov 23, 2007)

I think major events can change your sexuality. it has for me and even another person i know.


----------



## leavemealone158 (Nov 23, 2007)

well It's you that chooses. Or at lest your feelings. although for people who feel really strong needs to "fit in", they might alter your sexuality. Basically what I'm saying is that just pay attention to what you are feeling, sexually wise, and not what seems to work.


----------



## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

The majority of people are bisexual, I believe. Just because a man will always chose a woman over a man does not mean that there could arise circumstances in life where he ends up with the latter. For most people, these would be very dire circumstances, but still...


----------

