# Wellbutrin Vs. Adderall



## whatisnormal (Sep 19, 2010)

Which is better for long term goal achievement? Is adderall really that bad for the brain in the long term? Anyone have any experiences with wellbutrin?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Adderall can show some neurotoxiticy however the 2 year trials didnt find any serieus side effects, there may toxiticy occuring on the longer run but more then some cognitive decline (wich can only picked up in study's) likely wont happen considering those meds have been in clinical use for a very long time, we havent seen any severe problems such as tardive dyskinesia (as with antipsychotics) with amphetamine's. Altough the long term effects stay largely unknown as they havent been studied.

Adderall on its own likely builds tolerance and will give you bad crashes when it wears off, personally i found some succes with adding memantine for tolerance reduction and crash prevention.

Wellbutrin doesnt share the same issue's however it wont be as effective for social anxiety as its basicly only a NRI.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

I consider the dopamine reuptake inhibition from low dose Zoloft more useful than any dose of Wellbutrin, since norepinehrine will heighten vigilance and make anxiety worse.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Edwin said:


> I consider the dopamine reuptake inhibition from low dose Zoloft more useful than any dose of Wellbutrin, since norepinehrine will heighten vigilance and make anxiety worse.


I doubt thats even sufficient to significantly raise dopamine, unfortionally there are only a few options to effectively raise dopamine.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> I doubt thats even sufficient to significantly raise dopamine, unfortionally there are only a few options to effectively raise dopamine.


Well this is true, but you have to remember that any release or reuptake-inhibition helps. It is nothing amazing, but it certainly made alcohol finally effective enough for me to be seductive towards a woman. In fact, for my social anxiety, which is a direct cause of ADD, a combination treatment of many substances elevating dopamine release/re-uptake would probably be the most effective.

I'm trying to get my doc to prescribe me:

- Dexedrine
- Low dose Zoloft instead of Prozac
- Maybe memantine

I've already committed myself to using nicotine patches, because low-dose nicotine acts a stimulant (while acting differently at higher doses, making smoking not an as effective treatment). With these substances, including low dose DHA (as to not aggravate depression but keep my dopamine receptors more sensitive), I'll have 5 different ways to release dopamine into the synapse, prevent re-uptake and get consistent dopamine enhancing effects. I also take Rhodiola Rosea for the MAO-B inhibition, but this has no long-term therapeutic effect other than making sure there is enough available dopamine. Pure MAOI's and synthesis-enhancing enzymes/co-factors/aminoacids do not appear effective ADD treatment for longer than the start-up effects (before adaptation occurs to the increased availability of dopamine).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Well that regime sounds good, i'm also liking the nicotine patches but without memantine they are useless (beneficial effects turn into irratability in no time) so far with memantine no issue.

Personally i'm adressing GABA as well, as far as serotonine i'm only going for releasing agents as ive explained in my PM.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Well that regime sounds good, i'm also liking the nicotine patches but without memantine they are useless (beneficial effects turn into irratability in no time) so far with memantine no issue.


I only use a quarter of a patch giving off 21mg of nicotine in 24 hours (= about 5mg in 24 hours). I'm feeling just slightly irritable right now, but I feel pretty sedated. This might actually be a good dose once the start-up side-effects go away.

Attack the beast from different angles, sounds like a plausible strategy doesn't it?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Edwin said:


> I only use a quarter of a patch giving off 21mg of nicotine in 24 hours (= about 5mg in 24 hours). I'm feeling just slightly irritable right now, but I feel pretty sedated. This might actually be a good dose once the start-up side-effects go away.
> 
> Attack the beast from different angles, sounds like a plausible strategy doesn't it?


Sure, thats the same approuch im using. But ultimately its the dex in my regime wich is the most important as it pushes you to talk and wants you to be prosocial, but on its own i need damn high doses wich make me way to high, so i'm building a regime that as your saying attacks the beast from all angles, and then i just need a small dose of dex to top it off.


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## robtyl (Sep 2, 2010)

Where do you guys get the meds to experiment with this stuff?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

robtyl said:


> Where do you guys get the meds to experiment with this stuff?


Some of us self medicate but that are the ones that have an extensive pharmacological knowledge, dex is also impossible to find online.

Find a open minded doc.


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## whatisnormal (Sep 19, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Adderall can show some neurotoxiticy however the 2 year trials didnt find any serieus side effects, there may toxiticy occuring on the longer run but more then some cognitive decline (wich can only picked up in study's) likely wont happen considering those meds have been in clinical use for a very long time, we havent seen any severe problems such as tardive dyskinesia (as with antipsychotics) with amphetamine's. Altough the long term effects stay largely unknown as they havent been studied.
> 
> Adderall on its own likely builds tolerance and will give you bad crashes when it wears off, personally i found some succes with adding memantine for tolerance reduction and crash prevention.
> 
> Wellbutrin doesnt share the same issue's however it wont be as effective for social anxiety as its basicly only a NRI.


Thanks a lot for that great info. I just got prescribed wellbutrin today though. we'll see how it goes.


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## kid a (Aug 26, 2010)

idk. ... I miss adderall : (


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## Echonnector (Sep 12, 2010)

I started on lexapro and then was switched to wellbutrin a long time ago. To tell you the truth, if you can take wellbutrin and find that the anti-depressant effects and the increase in energy/attention work well for you, I'd say stick with it. Wellbutrin had the following side effects for me : Insomnia(altho I always have had it but it made it a lil worse, I occasionally would get mild headaches and I normally almost never have headaches, HUGE INCREASE in my libido, and in the beginning I was extremely energetic and I would eat less. It really gave me that push of motivation and feelings of things having purpose when I do them, which combined with the energy increase (it was mild but noticable) made it easier to study and do school work. I had to get scripted a benzo (ativan) to get to sleep easier on wellbutrin.




Now, if wellbutrin doesn't make you feel better and less depressed/more energetic/focused then I would say aim for the adderall. 
I personally take adderall, it's extremely useful for energy, motivation, focus, mood....but I can tell you that in the long term amphetamine can cause you a lot of issues and can be very addictive and it really can be a double edged blade, everything it helps you with it can also worsen if abused.

It depends on whether you are serious about being focused and less depressed or if you want something that will do that and/or you're going to abuse it and get high.
Wellbutrin doesn't seem to have tolerance issues. It does lower you're seizure threshhold (as long as you keep yourself educated about its risks you should be ok with that tho). Wellbutrin isn't as intensely effective as adderall for focus and such, however its really a matter of whether YOU personally will put in the effort and just need something to boost some things (then id say wellbutrin) or if you really have pure anhedonia(stw?) try adderall but watch you're dosing. If you aren't concerned about addiction and such then adderall will work like a charm but starting low is usually the best the higher you go the further you'll fall eventually.


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## robtyl (Sep 2, 2010)

Nice post Echonnector! 

I'm seeing my doctor on Friday to ask about Wellbutrin - I've been on Lexapro 10MG for 3 weeks now, and my motivation/drive has fallen off a cliff. Your post was very instructive in confirming everything else I've read about Wellbutrin/Bupropion 

How did you get switched to Wellbutrin? Did you ask for it specifically, or mention a number of symptoms you were having?


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## Echonnector (Sep 12, 2010)

I complained to my psychiatrist that the lexapro I was on left me feeling groggy all the time and it was difficult to concentrate, and this only added to my lack of motivation with things. I also mentioned the way the SSRI (lexapro) had wrecked my libido which was a problem. Its not uncommon to be scripted Wellbutrin along with an SSRI if you still find the SSRI useful. I didn't mention wellbutrin specifically however I had asked about anti-depressents that didn't make me feel so foggy. I don't think there would be a problem asking about/for wellbutrin by name however, its not a controlled substance. Oh and when I was telling the doctor about my issues a lot of them were with feeling focused, remembering things - which may be why he opted for wellbutrin which is an NDRI vs something like effexor (SNRI).
Wellbutrin kicks in right away when you use it and is done when you stop using it so if you don't like it its not as hard to get off of like ssri's and snri's, which may also be a concern you could have.

The wellbutrin, which is an anti-depressent but also used for adhd helped me and the doctor recognize how many of the issues I was having were add related and motivation problems. After trying this out for a while when I found a few issues with it I had asked him if there might be a similar medication to some of wellbutrins effect....and eventually I was scripted adderall.
I still wish I couldve kept both scripted actually.



EDIT : Also, since wellbutrin is a stimulant and ssris also have insomnia side effects I told the doctor I still was having sleep issues. When he scripted me wellbutrin he warned me that it does have the possibility of anxiety as a side effect. This is somewhat true but so do almost all the antidepressants. Either way, because of both of these factors he was less hesitant to prescribe me a benzo for sleep and in case of anxiety issues. I got ativan, which I personally hate its a strong hypnotic benzo some people like it. I eventually got switched to Klonopin which I find to be much more therapeutically beneficial


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## Morph900 (Sep 20, 2010)

i have a bottle of wellaburtin and colonzapam next to me right now, Cpam just makes you like calmer, numb, welobutrin is just like a wierd rush, makes the world feel like a light blue purple.


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## Echonnector (Sep 12, 2010)

perhaps you're dose of clonazepam is a bit too high or it might just not be the right drug for you, that is assuming "feeling numb" has a negative connotation. When I first started clonazepam I found myself to be very pleasant, laid back, I was talkative and in a decent mood when going to work (normally I would be so desperate to get to the back room and do dishes and put my headphones on so I could just avoid customers and coworkers). I didn't feel like anything was so urgent and necessary that it put me in a state of stress and I wouldn't obsess over little things, I could just let stuff go which normally felt a bit harder, like I had to fight with myself. Kpins(clonazepam or klonopin) truly have done wonders for my social anxiety. A top second is ironically Diazepam, altho I feel its too recreational feeling for me, I feel more of the sedation and muscle relaxation, the anxiolytic effect is decent too but it feels more like I'm at peace with just my own thoughts and less thoughtful about other things, not that I don't care I just am not over concerned about anything. Kpins made it so I could just flow with things more easily.


Wellbutrin at first made me feel like i was on a stimulant. I must've been sensitive...(this was loooooonnnnng ago), Wellbutrin is known for helping people actually lose some weight but I felt like I do now when I'm on amphetamine or illicit stimulants and trying to touch food...nothing seemed tasty and I had no desire to eat really, and I was sooo active. My adjustment to wellbutrin had a few small indiscretions. I was used to being very shy, quiet, the kind of person that would just take the bullying and harassment from people. Well, some dude picked the wrong night to victimize me..
I do remember there was a sort of positive manic feeling that was prominent for me but it was only REALLY prominent for the first week or so. I had a condom filled with soda thrown at me through a car window of some "friends" or aquantences...basically just a group of ppl. To their surprise I caught the thing and tossed it back at them and it exploded on this 'gangsta' kids pants. He tried to be a tough guy and was like "YO YOU GOT MA ****IN PANTS WET. WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT THAT? I THINK YOU SHOULD GET YOUR *** OVER HERE AND YOU CAN BLOW MY PANTS DRY"
This was said in a manner meant to be intimidating but not screaming or anything. He threw the **** at me too so wtf...
anyway, I, the normally shy target, suddenly felt this rush....it was like something took over and all of my inhibitions that made me feel depressed and dislike things about myself all disappeared..I had a grin on..normally I'd be nervous and avoidant...I walked over and said "Oh...so you want me to dry off your pants huh????" And I then took a glass bottle of BAWLS i was drinking and smashed it right on the brick wall in front of their car and grabbed the door pushing it in on him and holding my glass shard. I then looked him dead in the eyes and said "If you really want me to, I'd be glad to dry your ****ing pants off, but I'm gonna cut off the wet spot then I'll blow on your ****in pants...otherwise I suggest you let them airdry...." and I slammed the door shut almost on him and he was like "yo dude i was just ****in around really I wasn't gonna have you do that I didn't mean to piss you offf"

Normally this guy pushed me around as did the group I was with.....This was the first time someone apologized to me. It was also the first time I saw my true self...The anger and sadness was because I was withholding every single urge of rage and aggression, and actually just acting how I felt....my god was it exhilarating to finally fight back. Lol...to really understand this i'd have to writeup a whole life story of how I went from being someone constantly belittled and made fun of, I was reallly overweight throughtout most of my teenage years..tho I'm now 165, from 250 lbs, I went to the gym and changed my whole diet and lifestyle and the last piece of the puzzle was my depression/add, so once I had changed everything I could do on my own (therapy, gym, etc) then I started my different psychiatric meds. 

I guess thats sorta my warning...I personally found it liberating and helpful, altho my first weeks on wellbutrin had a few episodes of intense emotions (aggression, manic-like happiness) but that only happened a few times and it was never anything too out of control. Adderall has brought out much more of a fiend in me ;P


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

Edwin said:


> Well this is true, but you have to remember that any release or reuptake-inhibition helps. It is nothing amazing, but it certainly made alcohol finally effective enough for me to be seductive towards a woman. In fact, for my social anxiety, which is a direct cause of ADD, a combination treatment of many substances elevating dopamine release/re-uptake would probably be the most effective.
> 
> I'm trying to get my doc to prescribe me:
> 
> ...


What about L-Dopa + selegiline ?


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

whatisnormal said:


> Which is better for long term goal achievement? Is adderall really that bad for the brain in the long term? Anyone have any experiences with wellbutrin?


That completely depends on your own unique chemical soup in your head and hence your completely unique reaction to the med. You won't have the slightest idea of which is more helpful for you until you try both.

I have not seen any studies showing any damage to brain tissue from normal level long term adderall use, however I don't doubt there is at least a small amount. Ive been on adderall for 13 years. I definitely haven't gotten any dumber but I wouldn't say I have got much saner either. 

Both have reputations for being very motivating meds, especially adderall. Adderall raises my anxiety quite a lot but at the same time gives me motivation to get certain mundane things done as well as gives me the confidence to open my mouth to speak and be social (albeit with still very high levels of anxiety). Wellbutrin motivates me as well and even helps my depression more than adderall but with an *EXTREME* rise in anxiety/agitation/over-emotionality and aggression to the point where it isn't even close to being bare-able.

It all depends on the person in terms of how they respond. After having read thousands of testimonials in addition to witnessing the effects of just about every psych med first hand on individuals every night while working in a psych hospital for a year and half (as well as trialing both of these meds and many others repeatedly myself) this realization becomes repetitively blindingly obvious.

Good luck to you.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

JohnG said:


> What about L-Dopa + selegiline ?


L-Dopa is just a precursor to dopamine, and won't force dopamine into the synapse, although increased transmission will occur before adaptation. Selegeline also only increases the availability of dopamine. Both are useful, but won't take care of ADHD/ADD in the long-term. Flooding the brain with dopamine isn't the answer, triggering release or preventing reuptake is.


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