# DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM



## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

Just don't take them unless you really need them. Withdrawal is pretty hidious. I've been going through some withdrawal cutting down half my benzo intake and its not pretty. Seriously, if you don't have panic attacks, don't fake some for some benzo's. Thats what I did and now I'm dealing with withdrawal. Its not hard to fake your heart beating too fast and feeling very uncomfortable. but don't do it for benzo's. It might seem like something you have to cope with but I'm too tired of being addicted to this medicine. If you have any suggestions, please e-mail me at [email protected] . I'm so tired of being stuck on meds, I just want to get off and thats it.


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## sean88 (Apr 29, 2006)

What type of withdrawal symptoms are you having? And what particular med are you on? I'm seeing my psychiatrist in a couple weeks and I was gonna ask for some benzos to get help me stop blushing and freaking out.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

My life story with no exagerations is so stunning that my psychiatrist put me on 8 mg of Xanax a day when I first saw him 4 years ago.

I'm not a good actor, so I can't fake it. And I don't need to -- I have the misfortune of being the real deal, a perfect text book example of severe treatment-resistant SA.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Not to preach, but cutting you dose down by half isn't a safe method of tapering benzos. Try cutting it down by a quarter milligram per week or something small like that.

I would say "not to preach" for this next statement, but I don't think it'd do any good - If you fake your way into a benzo prescription just so you can get high on them, then you probably won't find much pity when your actual condition shines through all the lying.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



UltraShy said:


> My life story with no exagerations is so stunning that my psychiatrist put me on 8 mg of Xanax a day when I first saw him 4 years ago.
> 
> I'm not a good actor, so I can't fake it. And I don't need to -- I have the misfortune of being the real deal, a perfect text book example of severe treatment-resistant SA.


Have your docs done all the bio tests to rule out an organic cause of your anxiety? Brain scans, blood tests etc?

Ross


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Have your docs done all the bio tests to rule out an organic cause of your anxiety? Brain scans, blood tests etc?


I've never had a brain scan. I'd argue that my anxiety is organic in nature: my brain is clearly defective. What would one be looking for in a brain scan?

As for blood tests, I assume you're talking about searching for thyroid problems -- Nope, haven't done that. It's never been suggested.


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## jealibeanz (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



UltraShy said:


> yeah_yeah_yeah said:
> 
> 
> > Have your docs done all the bio tests to rule out an organic cause of your anxiety? Brain scans, blood tests etc?
> ...


Hmm... I don't know how things work in the UK, but if a doc in the US ordered any sort of imaging diagnostic tool for social anxiety, they'd be wayyy out of line of typical practice. Unless there were other significant symtoms to justify the order, insurance companies would most likely turn down any claim and the radiologist would think the doc's insane.

Like ultrashy said, a blood test would probably only be ordered to check thyroid hormone levels. Again, this is just not standard practice here and most docs would never consider it unless there were other symptoms.

Of course these are all possible causes of anxiety. So is a heart murmur or adrenal gland tumor... but they're rarely considered. Personally, I think a lot of people with only anxiety or depression (not bordering on a personality disorder and not bipolar), could benefit from seeing an endocrinologist. That being said, I don't really think I should go see one, or have blood tests, or imaging tests... because what's it going to tell me? And what could be done to fix any problems? Unless your results are wayyyy out of the normal range, you'd likely get little treatment because the normal values can vary widely from person to person.

Haha, and ultrashy, I do like the way you think! Of course everything that occurs is organic! We're humans. We're alive. Therefore we're organic and our functioning is a result of the sum of our parts.

There's no accepted root cause of anxiety, as far as I know. It's too complex to be understood at this point in our scientific studies, and probably never will be. Anxiety, along with depression, are the most prevalent psych disorders (and the most prevalent disorders in general? I just read that anti-depressants have finally reached the "most-prescribed drug in the US" status). They're also highly ambiguous. There's a huge variation in symtoms and presentation, which would lead one to believe that there's infathomable pathological roots... and it's pretty well accepted that our environment and life experiences plays a big part too.

Researchers haven't made an _aggressive_ movement to "target the cause and find a cure" because it's too hard! Sure there's some research going on, but I think these types of projects are few and far between because the money and rewards just aren't there.

So... the standard treatment remains to be an SSRI.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I wasnt looking for a catch all solution and explanation of SA, I was asking UltraShy, who himself says he is a severe treatment resistant case, what options have been covered for him. 

In the UK when docs have tried everything and nothing has worked, they start looking down the less travelled paths. An Axis III disorder is classed as Axis I symptoms (anxiety and depression, OCD, psychosis) that are caused by an actual biological fault such as lesions or other physical cerebral cause, or yes - hyperthyroidism. No most docs wouldnt go down such routes - but in Ultrashy's case it seems that the usual stuff isnt working, including benzos. Over here other tests would be ordered in his case.

UltraShy - I dunno what they would look for, but I still am surprised they have not suggested a physical cause. I would pester my doc if it was me.

Ross


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> UltraShy - I dunno what they would look for, but I still am surprised they have not suggested a physical cause. I would pester my doc if it was me.


The cause of my anxiety is no great mystery to me that I feel the need to do extensive exploration to find it. Could it be:

1. I was endlessly teased & tormented by bullies from kindergarten thru high school graduation for being the fat shy kid.

2. My parents never engaged in any normal social activities, so I could hardly learn by imitation.

3. There is a rather extensive history of anxiety disorders in my family.

Given the genetics & environment, one doesn't likely need a brain scan to figure out how I got here.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

True, and typically witty.

But there are many people who have the identical list to you out there who medication works for and psychotherapy heals. That includes me - genetics, background and bullying (right up until recently at work). I know you say you've been told you are too unstable for therapy so I guess thats another one to give up on.

Anyway I'm gonna quit this line of posting as I see it is getting me nowhere. I am also hungry.

Ross


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

I think Karl's brain is inefficient (genetically maybe) at producing GABA. The older he's gotten, the worse his anxiety has gotten. It appears as if the more stress he's had in his life, the less his brain can reduce it. GABA is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter, right? The relatively large amount of Xanax he takes only works to make the GABA in his system more effective, but Karl has said many times that his Xanax is only minimally effective. That's what made me think it's a problem with his GABA production rather than his response to medication. I'm probably wrong, though.

If by some crazy chance I'm right, I honestly wouldn't know how to address the problem. Benzos increase GABA's effectiveness (obviously), but I don't know of anything that actually increases the amount of GABA in the brain. :stu


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## jealibeanz (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> True, and typically witty.
> 
> But there are many people who have the identical list to you out there who medication works for and psychotherapy heals. That includes me - genetics, background and bullying (right up until recently at work). I know you say you've been told you are too unstable for therapy so I guess thats another one to give up on.
> 
> ...


So, your question is about Ultrashy and his dianostic and treatment history? You seem awfully worked up about this! I bet he appreciates the concern.

Well, he already told you that he's never had any bloodwork or imaging done.

Ultrashy has stated in the past that he's tried a huuuge laundry list of other meds before Xanax, without success. You could search for a post or maybe he'll tell you if he'd like.

OK, if you have a bunch of people write down their symptoms on a piece of paper, sure there are identical matches, but thinking that they will have identical treatment responses is very shallow thinking. In reality, people are amazingly complex and unique. There's no one size fits all answer to problems. Assuming he'll do great with therapy or a particular medication, because other people have, isn't realistic.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

:lol And I'm sure he's glad he has a spokesperson! I know how reticent he is in posting his views ...

I didnt know that trying to be helpful could be so upsetting to people. I bet he's glad he has you to protect him from all these nasty do-gooders :boogie Thanks for answrring the question then. No bloodwork, no brain scans, not tried therapy. I'm not saying anythings a panacea - I'm just wanting to look for options.

Why am I bothered about it? I dunno, just empathy / sympathy I guess, wanting to help out, feeling bad for another guy going through something I can realte to. If thats a crime here on SAS then jesus I'm fu**ed. 

Ross


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



jealibeanz said:


> a blood test would probably only be ordered to check thyroid hormone levels. Again, this is just not standard practice here and most docs would never consider it unless there were other symptoms.
> causes of anxiety.


It should always be standard procedure, and in most docs' offices, it is. I know that the majority of reputable psychiatrists, before even diagnosing a patient with something, will give them a prescription for a blood test to check out their thyroid levels, in order to rule out any other possible causes of anxiety/depression/other mood fluctuations. You can take all the Klonopin, Xanax, and Valium that you want, but if you have hypothyroidism none of these meds are going to help you. You would need a thyroid hormone to help the situation, not a benzo


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

AprilEthereal said:


> Just don't take them unless you really need them. Withdrawal is pretty hidious. I've been going through some withdrawal cutting down half my benzo intake and its not pretty. Seriously, if you don't have panic attacks, don't fake some for some benzo's. Thats what I did and now I'm dealing with withdrawal. Its not hard to fake your heart beating too fast and feeling very uncomfortable. but don't do it for benzo's. It might seem like something you have to cope with but I'm too tired of being addicted to this medicine. If you have any suggestions, please e-mail me at [email protected] . I'm so tired of being stuck on meds, I just want to get off and thats it.


By the way, I agree with you that benzos aren't for everyone. However, I believe your case may be a little different from the norm, if you know what I mean.

A general statement: alcoholism can mean an addictive personality. Throw some benzos into the equation and you've got a mess, because you've got a drug that sort of acts like alcohol, a script to it, and an already addictive personality. So, will it be harder for an alcoholic to stop their benzos or a sober-sally?


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## kokoloko (May 9, 2007)

I adore my benzo's, I might build a nest for them to snuggle up in at night.

I take as needed and they never fail to put me at ease/help me sleep. And stop the non-stop anxiety, nervousness, tension and allow me to enjoy life like everyone else, doing normal things... 

I am not addicted to them but it will probably happen I guess. But I still love them despite their flaws.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

I don't think you (indefinite anaphor) should take _any _psychoactive medications unless you really "need" them - and by "need", I suppose I mean, "the benefits outweigh the costs".


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## foxtrot (Feb 17, 2007)

Speak Easy said:


> By the way, I agree with you that benzos aren't for everyone. However, I believe your case may be a little different from the norm, if you know what I mean.
> 
> A general statement: alcoholism can mean an addictive personality. Throw some benzos into the equation and you've got a mess, because you've got a drug that sort of acts like alcohol, a script to it, and an already addictive personality. So, will it be harder for an alcoholic to stop their benzos or a sober-sally?


I think alcoholism may be a little harsh. From what I read AprilEthereal hammered the vodka for a couple of months like many people have when things seem bad (I'm not saying it's a good course of action) then stopped with no major withdrawals (if I'm not getting that last statement from here then it's from something I believe I read on another site- that he stopped without problems). Of course it is a very bad idea to cope with problems using alcohol but unless I missed it I don't believe April admitted to being an alcoholic. A few bad months doesn't make you an alcoholic.

I always respect your views Speak Easy so I'm not having a pop at you (you seem very knowledgable) it's just April's getting it from all angles at the moment whilst he's feeling like crap and I feel a little bad for him.

But to the OP, as others have said, you need a far slower taper than the one you're putting yourself through now. Probably already suggested but using 'The Ashton Manual' under supervision is likely your best bet. Though she is the benzo ***** to many (and I'm from the UK, I should know) she is also the benzo queen if you want to get off safely. Her withdrawal scheme will take many months but she claims patients are likely to feel no or minimal withdrawals.


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## foxtrot (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Why am I bothered about it? I dunno, just empathy / sympathy I guess, wanting to help out, feeling bad for another guy going through something I can realte to. *If thats a crime here on SAS then jesus I'm fu**ed. *
> 
> Ross


quite right.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

No worries, Foxtrot. I consider April a friend, since we were both helping each other out when he was going through his alcohol troubles. But at no point do I refer to him as an alcoholic. I put up the "general statement" section, purposely to avoid confusion. I don't believe he ever did call himself an alcohol, but I am saying that if one is prone to excessive drinking, there is room for an addictive personality, and where there is an addictive personality, there will be much worse withdrawal symptoms from getting off of a substance, than one who isn't. 

April - In no way did I mean to offend you in that post. You know I'd never do that. :b


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## foxtrot (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



Speak Easy said:


> No worries, Foxtrot. I consider April a friend, since we were both helping each other out when he was going through his alcohol troubles. But at no point do I refer to him as an alcoholic. I put up the "general statement" section, purposely to avoid confusion. I don't believe he ever did call himself an alcohol, but I am saying that if one is prone to excessive drinking, there is room for an addictive personality, and where there is an addictive personality, there will be much worse withdrawal symptoms from getting off of a substance, than one who isn't.
> 
> April - In no way did I mean to offend you in that post. You know I'd never do that. :b


OK, that's cool, Speak Easy, I guess I misinterpreted it somewhat, it just seemed a tad too close to home considering he's been on here talking about his alcohol consumption, and I'm tired (ie sleepy, not 'of it'! :b ) No offense to you.

I realise you're always trying to help.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



Speak Easy said:


> jealibeanz said:
> 
> 
> > a blood test would probably only be ordered to check thyroid hormone levels. Again, this is just not standard practice here and most docs would never consider it unless there were other symptoms.
> ...


I wasn't given a blood test until I _asked_ for one to be taken. This was after seeing roughly ~5 doctors, 4 of them psychiatrists. It had never occurred to me (and obviously none of my doctors) until I started educating myself about anxiety, depression, mood swings and the like could have a known cause.

(tests came back normal)


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*

That's so weird, Nae. I hate blood tests more than anything, but I think that a thyroid test should always be standard procedure before commencing any sort of psychiatric treatment, simply because so many psychiatric disorders have countless similarities with thyroid disorders.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



Speak Easy said:


> That's so weird, Nae. I hate blood tests more than anything, but I think that a thyroid test should always be standard procedure before commencing any sort of psychiatric treatment, simply because so many psychiatric disorders have countless similarities with thyroid disorders.


Yeah, it's sad. I wonder how many patients are rx'd lexapro and the like for _X_ when there may be a traceable, pathological cause for their symptoms. My thyroid test took a little under 10 minutes, and my doc had the results in less than a week. Out of pocket because I have no insurance it costed about 45 bucks.

(as a side note I love blood, needles and the like. :yes Pre-surgery I had a nurse warn me to look away as he found a vein in my hand, but I found it fascinating. Even while he struggled to keep the vein in one spot so the needle could pierce...hehe)


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



jealibeanz said:


> Ultrashy has stated in the past that he's tried a huuuge laundry list of other meds before Xanax, without success. You could search for a post or maybe he'll tell you if he'd like.


Every psych med I've tried:

1. Paxil
2. Lexapro
3. Zoloft
4. Effexor
5. imipramine
6. Serzone
7. Neurontin
8. Buspar
9. Zyprexa
10. Abilify
11. Valium
12. Ativan
13. Klonopin
14. Xanax

Tried for insomnia:

15. Trazodone
16. Remeron
17. amitriptyline
18. doxepin
19. Ambien (only tried one tablet -- feel asleep naturally a few hours later)

I think that's everything.


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

I've done the stupidest thing a social phobia can do.... I was taking 4mg/day of klonopin and it wasn't working, so I suddenly stopped taking it. Now I'm suffering from severe indigestion, dysrhythmia, muscle twitching, etc. I haven't gone outside for a week because of them.... What do you suggest I do?


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

akstylish said:


> I've done the stupidest thing a social phobia can do.... I was taking 4mg/day of klonopin and it wasn't working, so I suddenly stopped taking it. Now I'm suffering from severe indigestion, dysrhythmia, muscle twitching, etc. I haven't gone outside for a week because of them.... What do you suggest I do?


Start taking the Klonopin again and slowly reduce your dosage by only a fraction of a milligram each week until you're down to zero.

It apparently _was_ working on your brain, but you maybe (somehow?) weren't feeling its beneficial effects.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

akstylish said:


> I've done the stupidest thing a social phobia can do.... I was taking 4mg/day of klonopin and it wasn't working, so I suddenly stopped taking it. Now I'm suffering from severe indigestion, dysrhythmia, muscle twitching, etc. I haven't gone outside for a week because of them.... What do you suggest I do?


I agree with Kory. Start taking some Klonpin again -- as low a dose as you can that gets those problems to go away and then taper off at a rate that avoids such serious problems (I don't know what that rate would be & suspect it varies greatly from one individual to another).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:


> I don't know of anything that actually increases the amount of GABA in the brain. :stu


I'm pretty sure Nardil does.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Speak Easy said:


> A general statement: alcoholism can mean an addictive personality. Throw some benzos into the equation and you've got a mess, because you've got a drug that sort of acts like alcohol, a script to it, and an already addictive personality. So, will it be harder for an alcoholic to stop their benzos or a sober-sally?


Keep in mind that alcohol is used by many to self-medicate. If they had the benzos they needed would they still be drinking so much?

It seems unreasonable to say that all alcoholics should never have benzos, when it's a lack of benzos that made some of them alcoholics in the first place. So if you don't give them benzos then they continue to self-medicate with alcohol.

One would hope that you could get them to take benzos and stop the excessive drinking. At the very least it's a vast improvement for their liver.

Years ago on another social phobia forum I knew this guy online who had been a raging alcoholic in his younger years. In his mid 50s at the time he was on 7 mg of Xanax a day and was no longer an alcoholic (I don't even know if he drank at all).


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> korey said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know of anything that actually increases the amount of GABA in the brain. :stu
> ...


And you're not keen on the idea of taking an MAOI, as I recall...

I wonder if my previous idea about your brain's GABA production might be right. It seems like it would make sense.


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## will666 (Mar 27, 2007)

lol but why would you want to withdraw from the meds that make your anxiety go away? it will never go away it has no cure, i wouldnt mind taking them all my life at moderate dosage if it meant there was no more anxiety. And most likely if you stop taking them you'll go back to where u were before taking them. not a good place.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

will666 said:


> lol but why would you want to withdraw from the meds that make your anxiety go away? it will never go away it has no cure, i wouldnt mind taking them all my life at moderate dosage if it meant there was no more anxiety. And most likely if you stop taking them you'll go back to where u were before taking them. not a good place.


You make an excellent point. Many argue that benzos are bad because they cause withdrawal if you stop cold turkey. Well, I have a simple solution for that. Actually 2 solutions: 1) If you're going to stop for whatever reason do so slowly and 2) If you've suffered from severe anxiety/panic for decades before starting benzos I don't see your problem as likely to go away, so it's not clear to me why one would be likely to want to stop during their lifetime.

Morphine will certainly cause dependency too, but should someone with a severe back problem that can't otherwise be fixed worry about this as they'll be on the drug till they die at a ripe old age?


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

only therapy can make anxiety go away for good.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> It seems unreasonable to say that all alcoholics should never have benzos, when it's a lack of benzos that made some of them alcoholics in the first place. So if you don't give them benzos then they continue to self-medicate with alcohol.


I never said that alcoholics should never have benzos. I believe that anyone with a drug history (alcoholism included), should be more monitored in what benzo they're being rx'ed (slow-acting, long-lasting would be ideal), and that the patient should be more cautiously observed. Of course, if someone is using alcohol to self-medicate SA, they should be given meds, but I wasn't completely referring to individuals self-medicating (I was just making a general statement). But, this bring me back to my unanswered question: Would it be harder for an alcoholic (or an individual with a drug-history and/or an addictive personality) to stop their benzos or an individual who solely has SA, and has never used or been tempted by drugs, but rather prefers sobriety? Or better yet, who would build up more tolerance in a shorter amount of time?


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## will666 (Mar 27, 2007)

yea why stop taking what makes your life closer to normal , morphine and painkillers are something diff though you can get addicted to them and even die.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

will666 said:


> yea why stop taking what makes your life closer to normal , *morphine and painkillers are something diff though you can get addicted to them and even die.*


There are chronic pain patients who've lived on morphine and similar drugs for many decades. The people who tend to die from such drugs are, well, idiots. They often have little or no experience with the drug and take an excessively large dose (often in combination with alcohol and/or other drugs) and drop dead. Opioids kill by respiratory depression, an effect that goes away with regular use, so both chronic pain patients & junkies alike can take huge amounts that would sure kill somebody like me who isn't used to opioids and has no tolerance to that effect.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

I am now taking 1mg of Clonazepam a day and am about to stop all together. If there is anyone with experience will I be able to go to work normally and function normally. I have been on the med for atleast 6 months and have been tapering from 3mg for about a month or 2. I for some reason assume that only people taking it for years have horrible withdrawal but 6 months doesn't seem that long and I think (im hoping) that it won't be that bad.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

Can someone please reply


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

If you taper your dosage properly, there shouldn't be any really noticeable withdrawal (although, you might mistake returning/"rebound" anxiety in the absence of medication to be withdrawal). I wouldn't suggest lowering you dosage by a full milligram at once, especially with something as potent as Klonopin. Maybe you could go slower and decrease by a quarter of a milligram each week or so. Just a thought.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:


> (although, you might mistake returning/"rebound" anxiety in the absence of medication to be withdrawal).


 :agree I've read a lot of benzo horror stories over the years where you hear about how anxiety is now a constant since they stopped their benzos. Gee, if you taper all the folks with high blood pressure off their BP meds do you think we're going to see higher BP too?

There may have actually been a reason why they were on benzos for an extended period, such as they have chronic anxiety just like one might have chronically high blood pressure.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

Ok but is the serious withdrawal only for people who have taken it for years and years or can it be serious just taking it for a few months?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



AprilEthereal said:


> Ok but is the serious withdrawal only for people who have taken it for years and years or can it be serious just taking it for a few months?


Withdrawal would be expected to be more of a problem if you've taken it longer and/or taken it at a higher dose. I suspect a lot of individuals differences come into play as well, since you've likely noticed as I have that everyone responds differently to the same meds.

I suspect there is also some degree of placebo effect, where you may just get what you're expecting. If you've read all the anti-benzo propaganda on the net -- and there is a ton of it -- and you are dead set on the idea that getting off benzos will be hell I suspect you're more likely to have problems than somebody who doesn't expect disaster when tapering off.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

Yea, I'm pretty sure I'll get the placebo effect cause they say how horrid it is but ill try not to think about it. Would you consider 3mg of Clonazepam for 6 months a high dose and for a long time? I'm just scared **** less. I don't wanna be sittin at work all twitchin and not being able to stay calm.


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## jealibeanz (Oct 1, 2005)

OK, I'll share my story!

This is my disclaimer: My personal account is completely anecdotal. As prior experiences with medications have proven, I tend to have an unusual reaction (or lack there of) to sudden withdrawal.

I began taking Xanax daily about 14 months ago, with positive results. My maximum dose was 1 mg t.i.d. In February I switched to 3mg Xanax XR, but have only experienced negative results (grogginess, lack of concentration/coordination, little anxiety relief).

About three weeks ago I decided to stop taking the medication since it was hindering my daily functioning. I haven't experienced any physical or psychological withdrawal symptoms (no increased anxiety, no dizziness, shaking, nausea, increased sensitivty to sound, light, touch, etc.).

This isn't to say I'm anxiety free, but I never have been without medication. I'd say I'm about at my baseline from a year ago. I consider this to be positive since I thought I'd never be able to function normally again, especially because I'd had the benefit of feeling and living with appropriate anxiety relief. I figured that alone would "spoil" me and cause me to never want to live with uncontrolled symptoms again.

I'm proud to say that I haven't spiraled into a complete meltdown and haven't had any signs of panic. I think that's pretty good. At least I know that I don't _need _medication, I'd just prefer it.

So, that's my story. I was on a upper limit dose of Xanax, which is thought to be difficult to come off of because it's slightly serotonergic and short-acting. People tend to "like" the drug more than most other benzo's because of the action-reward resonse. I'm not saying this is a horrible thing. I like Xanax!

However, I was able to switch over to XR, which was difficult. As many of you here no I did not transition well or happily during the first two months. Eventually I did become accustomed to the lack of regular Xanax and now am accustomed to no Xanax XR.

Discontinuation can be done without major problems. I certainly wouldn't advise an abrupt discontinuation. Like I've said before, I'm not normal. Most people probably would not do well with my d/c "schedule".


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

But what if you're on a high dose of a benzo and don't go outside for many days? Shouldn't you still take it because of withdrawal symptoms?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

akstylish said:


> But what if you're on a high dose of a benzo and don't go outside for many days? Shouldn't you still take it because of withdrawal symptoms?


You're going to need to clarify, as I don't really understand your post.

1. What benzo are you on and what is the dose? "High dose" can vary greatly depending on who you ask.

2. Does your benzo help you to any extent at all?

The main thing that I don't understand is if you feel forced to stay on benzos daily simply to avoid withdrawal between those days when you go out and it does help you when you go out. Or are you saying it doesn't help at all -- which is why you rarely go out -- yet you feel compelled to stay on simply to avoid withdrawal?

I'll comment further once you supply more info for me to comment upon.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Hi Alex.

I think I now have the answer my main question from another recent post by you in which you said:



> No benzo works for me anymore.


If benzos are not helping you that is most unfortunate, but I don't think it makes sense to just stay on a drug forever simply to avoid withdrawal if are able to get off it.

The way to get off high doses of benzos is to wean off slowly. My psychiatrist uses either Valium or phenobarbital to slowly wean patients off high doses of benzos if there is a need or desire to stop. Both are used as they have a very long half-life and are least likely to cause withdrawal as compared to short-acting drugs like Xanax or Ativan.

How long such withdrawal would take depends on your dose and depends again on who you ask. Not everyone has severe problems getting off benzos, of course the problem cases are the only ones you'll ever read about on the net. Nobody is going to put up a site to say "Gee, I had no problems". Highly upset folks who had many problems are very angry and thus motivated to vent online, giving a biased view if you simply take what you read online at face value.

You're only 18 -- are you going to take benzos that don't work till you die, which presumably will be a very long time from now?

Keep in mind that I'm hardly anti-benzo. In fact, I don't think you could find any SAS member more vocally pro-benzo than me. Others may agree with me, but I post my pro-benzos views the most. I would only suggest stopping in cases where they don't work. I don't see any point in taking any drug that doesn't help, whether it be a benzo or anything else.


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

Let's suppose it does work but you stay home long enough to suffer from withdrawal symptoms because you have nothing to do outside. Should you still take it during that time?

I hope it's not confusing this time.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

akstylish said:


> Let's suppose it does work but you stay home long enough to suffer from withdrawal symptoms because you have nothing to do outside. Should you still take it during that time?
> 
> I hope it's not confusing this time.


wean off the drug then go back on it on a prn basis


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

*Re: re: DON'T TAKE BENZO'S UNLESS U REALLY NEED THEM*



UltraShy said:


> Hi Alex.
> 
> I think I now have the answer my main question from another recent post by you in which you said:
> 
> ...


Oops..you posted early and guessed wrong about my question. Sorry. :stu


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## foxtrot (Feb 17, 2007)

noca's response is a good one to answer your question akstylish


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Noca said:


> akstylish said:
> 
> 
> > Let's suppose it does work but you stay home long enough to suffer from withdrawal symptoms because you have nothing to do outside. Should you still take it during that time?
> ...


 :agree And I think I finally understand your question.


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## dns (Apr 30, 2008)

I had _no problems_ when just stopping taking Klonopin after 2 months of 2x2mg daily. 
I didn't taper off just stopped taking it.
It doesn't mean I say it's the same for everyone, just to make clear it's not all that hidious


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## X33 (Feb 13, 2005)

I have taken benzos for about 9 months now. I have also stopped taking them for weeks in between and have had ZERO withdrawal issues.


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## peter1900 (Aug 1, 2008)

I understand this much that is do not take something more you want. This is also like an Indian Proverb anything you take more this may be poison. There they used the term 'Amrith' means the ultimate medicine used to return from death.

===================
peter
Georgia Treatment Centers


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

X33 said:


> I have taken benzos for about 9 months now. I have also stopped taking them for weeks in between and have had ZERO withdrawal issues.


Thats insane. I tried to stop when I was 6 months on Clonazepam. Made it to day 7 and couldn't take it. I shoulda just kept going. DAMN ME!


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## Steiger (Aug 4, 2008)

Based on personal experience, I think that benzos have great potential for SA if used for a reasonable time, if not used everyday. I developed a monstruous tolerance to benzodiazepines. The first time I popped 1mg of Klonopin I slept half an hour later, and had very lucid dreams. The anxiolytic effect could still be felt the next day. I used (and abused) Clonazepam and Alprazolam (Xanax) 5 or 10 times, using monstruous doses, just to feel the mellow high. Today, if I was to take 10mg of klonnies, it would be a miracle that It would work like the first miligram i took.

Benzos are definitely best used AS NEEDED. And if you feel tolerance building up, try hard to stop using them if you can.

I don't know if I loved those 2 years on klonopin. I got quite relaxed, yes, specially on the first months. But my mind still feels foggy, I can't remember a lot of things in details, and I feel some lack of strong emotions, love, hate. I got scared, so 2 days ago i decided to quit permanently a regimen of 4mg klonopin / daily. If I get some bad withdrawal, obviously I will resume with the lowest possible dose that will alleviate the symptoms, and then taper off slowly.

Tolerance (and dependence) can and probally will build up REAAAALLY fast.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Steiger said:


> Based on personal experience, I think that benzos have great potential for SA if used for a reasonable time, if not used everyday. I developed a monstruous tolerance to benzodiazepines. The first time I popped 1mg of Klonopin I slept half an hour later, and had very lucid dreams. The anxiolytic effect could still be felt the next day. I used (and abused) Clonazepam and Alprazolam (Xanax) 5 or 10 times, using monstruous doses, just to feel the mellow high. Today, if I was to take 10mg of klonnies, it would be a miracle that It would work like the first miligram i took.
> 
> Benzos are definitely best used AS NEEDED. And if you feel tolerance building up, try hard to stop using them if you can.
> 
> ...


Tolerance usually plateaus.


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

Is there really a point where benzo tolerance stops building up?


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## Steiger (Aug 4, 2008)

akstylish said:


> Is there really a point where benzo tolerance stops building up?


Nice question. I would love to know.

There's a ****ed up guy in erowid who was taking 20~30mg Klonopin/day recreatively and was just functioning normally. So, I think even if tolerance stops building up, it can get REAAAAAAAAAL high.

No one wants to take monstruous doses of benzos, withdrawal would be potentially fatal.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Steiger said:


> akstylish said:
> 
> 
> > Is there really a point where benzo tolerance stops building up?
> ...


taking 30mgs of klonopin is just stupid, that guy deserves to go through withdrawal.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

ThirdEyeGrind said:


> Just don't take them unless you really need them. Withdrawal is pretty hidious. I've been going through some withdrawal cutting down half my benzo intake and its not pretty. Seriously, if you don't have panic attacks, don't fake some for some benzo's. Thats what I did and now I'm dealing with withdrawal.* Its not hard to fake your heart beating too fast and feeling very uncomfortable. but don't do it for benzo's. *It might seem like something you have to cope with but I'm too tired of being addicted to this medicine. If you have any suggestions, please e-mail me at [email protected] . I'm so tired of being stuck on meds, I just want to get off and thats it.


What would happen if anyone saw your heart racing or looking uncomfortable? Is it just in your own mind that you think people can see your nervousness or heart beating fast?


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

CopadoMexicano said:


> What would happen if anyone saw your heart racing or looking uncomfortable? Is it just in your own mind that you think people can see your nervousness or heart beating fast?


Why are you reviving such an old thread? Surely this person isnt around to respond to you.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Noca said:


> Why are you reviving such an old thread? Surely this person isnt around to respond to you.


Thats my business. You cant do a search for old threads eh? Just to ask you: why were you previously banned?


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

Noca said:


> Why are you reviving such an old thread? Surely this person isnt around to respond to you.


agreed.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

benzo withdrawal is the worst withdrawal ive ever felt and i am a addict/alcoholic.

it is, simply put, the WORST feeling i have ever felt in my 28 years of life. to fully get over it, it took about 1-1/2 months before i felt "normal" or baseline again. the first night the withdrawal hit was, as best as i can describe, a waking nightmare. pure hell. 
completely uncontrollable body movements, inability to stand or walk, out of body dementia, disconnection from reality, severe confusion, paralysis etc etc etc. developed a stutter and involuntary mouth/tongue movements for a month after the withdrawal started. could not speak a single sentence clearly. 

no exaggeration is needed with benzo withdrawal. go ahead and try it out sometime, if u dont believe its true.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Paralysis, dementia? How much were you taking?


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

Ben12 said:


> Paralysis, dementia? How much were you taking?


8mg xanax at the lowest. 16mg xanax at the highest. for the most part of 7 years. went cold turkey because i was so badly addicted and didnt want to stop.

but please dont blame the severity of my withdrawal on the dose. what 8mg did for me, _*0.25mg..*_can do for someone else.

it doesnt matter if you go cold turkey or not, either. you are going to have withdrawal. and it is going to be an event you wont soon forget.

anyways, now that im not addicted anymore, i can tell you that xanax is nothing more than a band-aid drug for sissies. yep, i was just a baby who was afraid someone was going to steal his babies bottle of pills.

benzos are ONLY to be used as a last resort and ONLY temporarily.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Well yes if your taking 8-16mg of Xanax regularly and then taper too quickly I can see how those withdrawal effects would happen.


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## Jason Keener (Nov 29, 2013)

*Slow Taper*

Hi. When I was getting off of Klonopin, I did this:

1. Measured out 100 mL of water with a graduated cylinder I bought off of the Internet.
2. Put the measured water from the cylinder and Klonopin pill together into a large empty water bottle to dissolve the pill. Put cover on bottle and shook the bottle up a bit to make sure the pill was totally dissolved.
3. Poured the "pill water" back into the graduated cylinder, shook it up a bit again to distribute Klonopin evenly throughout the water, and then dumped out 1 mL of "pill water" per day. 
4. Drank what "pill water" was left in the cylinder.
5. Recorded on a piece of paper how many mL I drank each day to keep track of where I was in the taper.

If the withdrawal symptoms are bothering you, just drink the same "pill water" amount every day until you feel able to start cutting your dosage again. In my opinion, it's often too difficult to quit psychiatric medications just by cutting pills in half or into fourths because the withdrawal symptoms get too severe. Better to do a slow taper by mixing the pill with water and tossing only a small percentage of the pill every day or holding off on tossing any if you need to stabilize for a few days.

Good luck!


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

I want to stop them too but there is too much anxiety right now in my life to do that. Benzodiazepines as needed rock, what I eventually plan to do again.


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## ingenious53 (May 27, 2011)

Have you tried to add an antidepressant? That might help.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

allornothing said:


> *anyways, now that im not addicted anymore, i can tell you that xanax is nothing more than a band-aid drug for sissies. yep, i was just a baby who was afraid someone was going to steal his babies bottle of pills.
> 
> benzos are ONLY to be used as a last resort and ONLY temporarily.*


Wait, what the hell are saying.

_ i can tell you that xanax is nothing more than a band-aid drug for sissies. yep, i was just a baby who was afraid someone was going to steal his babies bottle of pills_

a band-aid drug for sissies? Well almost every drug can be described as a band-aid. I am assuming that you mean Xanax does not make Anxiety permanently stop. A band-aid is a good thing. It stops bleeding and keeps the wound from becoming infected. So Xanax temporarily stops anxiety. Why is that bad? I was agoraphobic and by taking xanax I could go outside, do work and talk to people. Is the better alternative that remain agoraphobic?
Should someone with high blood pressure not take medication for that because it only temporarily reduces blood pressure.

The point of a "band aid" drug is to reduce the symptoms, enabling the patient to be able to live so that they can overcome their problems if possible. Almost every anti-benzo proponent uses this same "band-aid" argument and it is blatantly ignorant for the reasons that I layed out. Is it better to bleed to death or put on a band-aid?

As for calling Xanax users sissies, have you ever experienced disabling mental illness. Meaning, a complete inability to survive due to mental illness. Is a boxer who gets knocked out a sissy because he's on the ground and can't move? What about a paraplegic, are they a sissy because they can not get around without a wheelchair? After all that wheelchair is merely a "band-aid" and they are totally addicted to it because they can't even leave their room without it.

You seem to be saying that someone with severe anxiety who needs medication is being a weakling because they cannot change without medication. Some people experience such a severe level of anxiety that they are unable to be at all rational and need medication to begin seeing their situation in a rational light so that they can change. You seem to lack an understanding of the human condition.

_benzos are ONLY to be used as a last resort and ONLY temporarily_

In all health matters, as someone who thinks holistically, I agree that drugs should be used as a last resort as long as the patient is not in immediate danger. When the body is not functioning well, it often manifests itself as some sort of illness. So when a mental or physical illness begins to show itself, it is always best to attempt to correct the problem by doing everything possible correct the problem by making changes in your life to become well again.

But if nothing works and you cannot function then there is no shame in taking a medication to be able to survive.

As for only using a benzo temporarily; why set an arbitrary time limit. What if no other medication helps a person except a benzo? By your limitation, is it better that a person only get relief from a drug for just a couple weeks, then stop taking that drug for no reason except that someone else decided that they should only use the drug for a short time? Myself for example. After being agoraphobic and not leaving my house should I have stopped using benzos after being able to function for two weeks. There is no xanax shortage so why stop taking it after only a short period of time? If someone can live a much better life by using a drug then who are you to tell them that they can't use the drug and just have to live a ****ty life.

I encourage you to think about others, what they need and their inherent freedoms before you begin telling people what they "should" and "shouldn't" do. Get a grip on reality.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

istayhome said:


> Wait, what the hell are saying.
> 
> _ i can tell you that xanax is nothing more than a band-aid drug for sissies. yep, i was just a baby who was afraid someone was going to steal his babies bottle of pills_
> 
> ...


how much xanax did you have to take to summon the courage to write this essay of yours.

oh and how can you tell someone to "get a grip on reality" when you are constantly doped up on benzo's, opiates and alcohol. at the same time, by your own addmission.

when the day comes that you are not taking any narcotics, then you can tell someone to "get a grip on reality".

thanks for trying, though.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

allornothing said:


> how much xanax did you have to take to summon the courage to write this essay of yours.
> 
> oh and how can you tell someone to "get a grip on reality" when you are constantly doped up on benzo's, opiates and alcohol. at the same time, by your own addmission.
> 
> ...


I have no need to defend myself to a giant douche who hides behind a keyboard and spews sh!t. Why the hell are you so insecure that you feel the need to judge me based on a very positive post that I wrote. Everyone has their own struggles. I'm sorry that you are such an insecure person that you need to spam me to feel better about yourself. Any human being who behaves like that has some serious issues that they need to address. You are harming yourself by trying to bring me down to feel better about yourself.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm currently tapering off my klonopin right now and the panic, paranoia, sleeplessness, and heart palpitations have already started. Withdrawal from benzos alway hits me particularly hard.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

istayhome said:


> I have no need to defend myself to a giant douche who hides behind a keyboard and spews sh!t. Why the hell are you so insecure that you feel the need to judge me based on a very positive post that I wrote. Everyone has their own struggles. I'm sorry that you are such an insecure person that you need to spam me to feel better about yourself. Any human being who behaves like that has some serious issues that they need to address. You are harming yourself by trying to bring me down to feel better about yourself.


i didnt read 95% of that post. and i read maybe 6-7 words of this post, as i know it is all horse****, so im not missing anything.

why do u feel the need to start insulting me with every honest post that I make? are you afraid im going to come to your home and steal your narcotics?

you need serious help. with every post you make, you are making yourself look more and more like a low life junkie. and i acutally am starting to feel bad for you.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm not insulting you, I am calling bullsh!t when I see it.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

istayhome said:


> I'm not insulting you, I am calling bullsh!t when I see it.


you insult me at every turn. when my posts have nothing to do with you. here you come, calling me a "douche" and "insecure" etc etc. i can find all of your posts where you insult me with no provocation.

anyway, it doesnt phase me. its to be expected for your kind. and its ok, i am a drug addict in remission, so i know your type all too well.

you can have a cry now.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Dunno
Go ride your camel and chilax


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

I had to take 40mg vallium today because I have to something that I needed to be relaxed for and it didn't help much at all
Is it normal to take 40mg and not feel much ? I haven't used a benzo for 18 months


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

CD700 said:


> I had to take 40mg vallium today because I have to something that I needed to be relaxed for and it didn't help much at all
> Is it normal to take 40mg and not feel much ? I haven't used a benzo for 18 months


yeah, it depends on your physical and psychological tolerance and your anxiety level. Has valium been effective for you in the past. Also, as for "not feeling much." a benzo doesn't necessarily make you feel something, it just makes you feel noting. In addition, Valium builds up in your system, so taking 40 mg acutely may not have as powerful of an effect if you take it daily and it builds up a bit in your liver, etc. 30 mg of Valium really helps me, even after 5 years of taking t. But I could take 100 mg and "not feel anything." I just don't experience any anxiety.


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## Testsubject (Nov 25, 2013)

So benzo's work fast acting but strong withdrawals and high chance of addiction. While other SSRI like Zoloft can take weeks to start working and have a high chance of not working at all. Seems like you can't win either way.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Testsubject said:


> So benzo's work fast acting but strong withdrawals and high chance of addiction. While other SSRI like Zoloft can take weeks to start working and have a high chance of not working at all. Seems like you can't win either way.


You are incorrect sir. SSRI's do nt work for me. But Benzos have worked great for 5 years wit no problems. It seems like I won


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Also can some explain to me why drug dependence is bad?


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## Testsubject (Nov 25, 2013)

istayhome said:


> You are incorrect sir. SSRI's do nt work for me. But Benzos have worked great for 5 years wit no problems. It seems like I won


5 years off and on or 5 years steady? The problem comes with addiction and withdrawals.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

5 years steady. I see no problem with having a chemical dependency. I stay on Benzos, the drugs continue to help me, they don't cause me any harm. So I have a drug dependency. That only effects me if I have to quit taking benzos immediately at some time. That scenario is unlikely. So benzos strike me as the best option available if they help a person. It's not as if The anxiety I have is going to suddenly stop and I will suddenly not need benzos. So it seems like a completely unfounded and ridiculous fear to have of drug dependency. It is just a property of drugs. A property of most drugs I will add, including SSRI's.


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## Testsubject (Nov 25, 2013)

istayhome said:


> 5 years steady. I see no problem with having a chemical dependency. I stay on Benzos, the drugs continue to help me, they don't cause me any harm. So I have a drug dependency. That only effects me if I have to quit taking benzos immediately at some time. That scenario is unlikely. So benzos strike me as the best option available if they help a person. It's not as if The anxiety I have is going to suddenly stop and I will suddenly not need benzos. So it seems like a completely unfounded and ridiculous fear to have of drug dependency. It is just a property of drugs. A property of most drugs I will add, including SSRI's.


There isn't a problem until there is one. I don't really see anything wrong with it as long as you can keep a steady supply, but what if the psychiatrist decides to reduce the dosage or something happens and the FDA disapproves the drug for what ever reason. I know its a what if game and really isn't important until it actually happens. I take adderall, a couple of years ago there a shortage issue for about 3-5 months. It was really hard to find the mg and amount I was taking at the time. It didn't really affect me but some people in my classes were a wreck and grades started to show it.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

istayhome said:


> Also can some explain to me why drug dependence is bad?


The perception that drug dependence is bad is so ingrained in public belief that people take it for granted. I think this is unfortunate and leads to needless suffering in this community and the population at large. The fear of "addiction" I feel is way overblown. People hear that word and become afraid to try legitimate, viable solutions to lifelong debilitating problems. Someone who's been struggling with SA for decades being afraid to try a drug for fear of addiction has a truly cockeyed view of things. Who honestly gives a **** if you're physically dependent on something (whatever that means) if it allows you to conquer your fear. It's far more dangerous to waste your life being afraid than to investigate potentially curative pharmaceutical avenues. One can ALWAYS get off whatever pill one's taking anyway. We've been inculcated into believing the drugs are bad propaganda and it's sad that some people won't even consider chemical intervention because of this.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

^ that is exactly why so many very safe drugs (marijuana, hallucinogense, etc) are still illegal. People hear the phrase "recreational drug" and instantly associate it with the devil's right hand.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

Testsubject said:


> So benzo's work fast acting but strong withdrawals and high chance of addiction. While other SSRI like Zoloft can take weeks to start working and have a high chance of not working at all. Seems like you can't win either way.


benzo's work withint 30 minutes of taking them so i would call that fast. if you would like to know if there is a high chance of addiction i would ask literally any professional on the matter. be it doctor or psychiatrist. if you tell them to give you a yes or no answer, it will most definitely be a yes. although, if you ask the masses, such as here on the forums, you will get mixed responses. please listen to the professionals, you'll be happy you did.

feel free to google your exact question of "are benzos addictive" and see what kind of responses you get, if you are interested in responses from the masses. im actually kind of surprised they all seem to be in agreement with the same response ive heard time and again, from the professionals, in my 10 year battle with psychiatric disorders.

and just for fun, i typed in "benzos are not addictive" and i did not find anything in at least the first 10 pages. go ahead and google any phrase you like in regards to your original question. i, myself, did not find a single thing. might be something past page 10...but if you have to look that far, it should tell you something.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

It's not just professionals who understand these matters. If we can increase the signal to noise ratio on forums like these and eliminate the garbage then the potential for high quality information is still there. In some cases it is superior to what you'll receive from "any professional". Case in point would be with MAO inhibitors where there are very few informed professionals.

Both benzos and SSRIs can be "addictive" if by addictive we take the meaning to be that you experience unpleasant effects from cessation of administration.


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## rubyruby (Jun 17, 2009)

People have been known to kill themselves because of social anxiety.

If there is a medication out there that could save their life I don't have a problem with that.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

allornothing said:


> benzo's work withint 30 minutes of taking them so i would call that fast. if you would like to know if there is a high chance of addiction i would ask literally any professional on the matter. be it doctor or psychiatrist. if you tell them to give you a yes or no answer, it will most definitely be a yes. although, if you ask the masses, such as here on the forums, you will get mixed responses. please listen to the professionals, you'll be happy you did.
> 
> feel free to google your exact question of "are benzos addictive" and see what kind of responses you get, if you are interested in responses from the masses. im actually kind of surprised they all seem to be in agreement with the same response ive heard time and again, from the professionals, in my 10 year battle with psychiatric disorders.
> 
> and just for fun, i typed in "benzos are not addictive" and i did not find anything in at least the first 10 pages. go ahead and google any phrase you like in regards to your original question. i, myself, did not find a single thing. might be something past page 10...but if you have to look that far, it should tell you something.


There is a difference between addiction and chemical dependence. When benzos are taken chronically one does develop a chemical dependence. But that is fine, the nature of the drug. I will take a chemical dependence to a drug that allows me to live over being "drug free,: and locked in my bedroom dying.

suck on my butt, squeeze on my nut, The magic curly hair, please don't touch.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

rubyruby said:


> People have been known to kill themselves because of *social anxiety.*
> 
> If there is a medication out there that could save their life I don't have a problem with that.


sa doesnt kill you. ending your own life does. Unless its accidental, natural, homicide. You never see a person ending their life in the newspaper saying because he or she was worthless. Suicide is abnormal even during bereavement. imo


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

CopadoMexicano said:


> sa doesnt kill you. ending your own life does. Unless its accidental, natural, homicide. You never see a person ending their life in the newspaper saying because he or she was worthless. Suicide is abnormal even during bereavement. imo


You do not understand suicide. I encourage you to research the subject of mental illness and suicide more thoroughly. My brother committed suicide for exactly the reason that you say people do not do so. As result I did a college thesis on the topic. You have a huge lack of knowledge and understanding on the topic.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

istayhome said:


> You do not understand suicide. I encourage you to research the subject of mental illness and suicide more thoroughly. My brother committed suicide for exactly the reason that you say people do not do so. As result I did a college thesis on the topic. You have a huge lack of knowledge and understanding on the topic.


I dont have to understand it. Suicide isnt permitted to be talked about anyway.


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## AgapeOverEros (Dec 16, 2013)

Benzos are useless. They are basically alcohol in a pill form. They make you act like a fool and they ruin your judgment. You will make a complete fool of yourself in social situations and that's exactly what you DON'T want. Not to mention you might get addicted. STAY AWAY!


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

FaithWorkingThroughLove said:


> Benzos are useless. They are basically alcohol in a pill form. They make you act like a fool and they ruin your judgment. You will make a complete fool of yourself in social situations and that's exactly what you DON'T want. Not to mention you might get addicted. STAY AWAY!


I have been on benzos for five years. They are very useful because I no longer experience agoraphobia and I can live a great life. They are not alcohol in a pill, they effect the various GABA Neurotransmitters very differently. I cannot stand alcohol and have not drank alcohol in years because it destroys how I think, but Benzos act very differently. I do not act like a fool, nor do I have poor judgement.

I will sidetrack and point out that "acting like a fool," is a very subjective judgement. Many very great and influential people were called fools during their life.

Due to the help of Benzos I am very successful in social situations. Without that benefit I would be locked in my bedroom, too scared of even thinking about socializing. I am not addicted to Benzos, I have a chemical dependence on this class of drugs. That really doesn't matter though. This class of medication really benefit me so it is just fine.


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## AgapeOverEros (Dec 16, 2013)

istayhome said:


> I have been on benzos for five years. They are very useful because I no longer experience agoraphobia and I can live a great life. They are not alcohol in a pill, they effect the various GABA Neurotransmitters very differently. I cannot stand alcohol and have not drank alcohol in years because it destroys how I think, but Benzos act very differently. I do not act like a fool, nor do I have poor judgement.
> 
> I will sidetrack and point out that "acting like a fool," is a very subjective judgement. Many very great and influential people were called fools during their life.
> 
> Due to the help of Benzos I am very successful in social situations. Without that benefit I would be locked in my bedroom, too scared of even thinking about socializing. I am not addicted to Benzos, I have a chemical dependence on this class of drugs. That really doesn't matter though. This class of medication really benefit me so it is just fine.


I am not trying to put you down or attack you. I was just sharing my experience with benzos. They did not work for me but if they work for you then thats great news. Praise the Lord


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

FaithWorkingThroughLove said:


> Benzos are useless. They are basically alcohol in a pill form. They make you act like a fool and they ruin your judgment. You will make a complete fool of yourself in social situations and that's exactly what you DON'T want. Not to mention you might get addicted. STAY AWAY!


the "alcohol in a pill form" is absolutely correct. i have referenced it the exact same way. and ive read other do the same. its something that you may not hear from one of the "professionals" as it is a pretty intimate detail that can only be realized upon use.

i recall being one of the people that defended the use of benzos. prior to being prescribed it, and of course when i was on it. my opinion changed towards the end when i was trying to get off it. the addiction becomes very apparent once you try to stop. even weaning off of it is pretty much a nightmare.



> suck on my butt, squeeze on my nut, The magic curly hair, please don't touch.


always something very intelligent you have to say, i see. thanks for sharing, young man, now go to your room. insulting me in the form of some kind of ****ed up nursery rhyme your dad sung to you now?



> Both benzos and SSRIs can be "addictive" if by addictive we take the meaning to be that you experience unpleasant effects from cessation of administration.


death is a pretty unpleasant side effect. one that no SSRI or any other drug besides alcohol is associated with. please dont compare the addictive nature of a narcotic to a non-narcotic. ive never heard of violent withdrawal or someone going to a detox facility or rehab because of a non-narcotic. the two are on completely separate levels.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

> I cannot stand alcohol and have not drank alcohol in years because it destroys how I think, but Benzos act very differently.


except for a few days ago when you gloated to a friend on the forums that you had taken alcohol, opiates and benzos all in the same day?

did you forget about that? im not surprised you forgot.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

=allornothing said:


> the "alcohol in a pill form" is absolutely correct. i have referenced it the exact same way. and ive read other do the same. its something that you may not hear from one of the "professionals" as it is a pretty intimate detail that can only be realized upon use.


This has no meaning.



> death is a pretty unpleasant side effect. one that no SSRI or any other drug besides alcohol is associated with. please dont compare the addictive nature of a narcotic to a non-narcotic. ive never heard of violent withdrawal or someone going to a detox facility or rehab because of a non-narcotic. the two are on completely separate levels.


Who's comparing the addictive nature of a narcotic to a non-narcotic? I merely stated that both benzos and SSRIs are addictive. And, there are indeed many cases of violent withdrawal caused by SSRis. It just takes a cursory google search or perhaps first hand experience to realize this.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Half reading this net fight BUT ssri aint addictive lol


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

By addictive I mean that users can experience negative side-effects upon withdrawal, especially if done without tapering.


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

GiftofGABA said:


> By addictive I mean that users can experience negative side-effects upon withdrawal, especially if done without tapering.


i understand that is your definition of addictive. but that is not what addictive means.

ive never had a doctor or any health professional tell me that effexor xr is addictive, and that is a notorious drug for unpleasant withdrawal.

no one goes to addiction counseling for a non-narcotic drug.

i could give you 100 other examples, but i think you should understand your error with this much.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

I respect your opinion but I'm challenging the definition of addiction. I think it's an ill-defined term which is misused to instill fear.

Here's a peer reviewed study showing stroke-like symptoms from Effexor withdrawal:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21448114

And another one that applies to Paxil and Effexor:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11448088

Here's an NIH warning about negative effects of Effexor discontinuation syndrome:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1681629/

"Venlafaxine is a widely used antidepressant. The World Health Organization asserts that SSRI and SSRNI antidepressants cause dependence and that discontinuation symptoms can be troublesome and persist notwithstanding taper therapy."

Another case study of a 70 year old woman suddenly stopping Effexor:
link

"Problems started in the evening hours, as a sudden onset of weakness, several hours after the last dose of venlafaxine. The patient could not walk straight, was swerving from side to side and got terrified. Her blood pressure was elevated (160/100) and pulse was 100 beats per minute. She soon started to sweat, felt nausea, palpitations and heat waves. A niece brought her to the ER unit. After examination, the neurologist diagnosed potential stroke or transient ischemic attack (TIA). Blood pressure rose additionally to 180/110, pulse to 110/min. "


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## fineline (Oct 21, 2011)

GiftofGABA said:


> I respect your opinion but I'm challenging the definition of addiction. I think it's an ill-defined term which is misused to instill fear.


again, i understand what you believe the term addiction means.

but it simply does not.

you can challenge its definition all you like. that will not change the fact that you are incorrect.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

allornothing said:


> ive never had a doctor or any health professional tell me that effexor xr is addictive, and that is a notorious drug for unpleasant withdrawal.


Effexor withdrawal causes similar problems for people discontinuing it as classically addictive substances.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

allornothing said:


> again, i understand what you believe the term addiction means.
> 
> but it simply does not.
> 
> you can challenge its definition all you like. that will not change the fact that you are incorrect.





GiftofGABA said:


> Effexor withdrawal causes similar problems for people discontinuing it as classically addictive substances.


The Definition of addiction: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly: persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful.

So the definition of addiction is not up for debate. In the broadest sense of the definition, Chemical dependency is addiction; Although that is not accepted by the medical field and my medical textbooks differentiate between the two.

The term 'addiction' applies equally to both SSRI's and Benzodiazapines.


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