# Are shy guys expected to settle for women less attractive than them?



## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

Well?


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## PandaPop (May 21, 2010)

No why should they? I know some girls find confidence attractive, but its all down to personal preference of whats attractive and whats not really isn't it?

Theres loads of factors, how about shy girls that are extremely hot? Would they not be attracted to shy guys like themselves? Some people don't factor looks into relationship either. 
No one should expect anything less or more, they should just go for what they like.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

How does someones appearance have ANYTHING to do with it? Enlighten me, please. Are you saying less attractive woman are only capable of attracting helpless, desperate men who are too shy to seek more attractive woman and thus settle? Are attractive woman only attracted to confident, extroverted men? Are we will going to be this naive and shallow?

Because if so........*rage builds*.


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

This thread will not end well.


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## BetaBoy90 (Jan 5, 2010)

In short, No.

In long, HELLLLLLLL NOOOOOOO!


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

absolutely. everyone expects it.


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

i hear it's a law of the international female conspiracy.


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## rubyruby (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm not sure why I'm bothering but.....

My brother is shy - he has been married for over 40 years. His wife is average looking. When she gets all dolled up she looks like a million bucks.

Because my brother is shy he was attracted to certain qualities she has. She was a better talker than him and took the pressure off him at social gatherings. She doesn't mind that they don't have lots of friends and don't go out that much. They are financially very successful and have 4 children. I would say he picked the right woman.


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## Dub16 (Feb 28, 2010)

I'm sayin nothin. Hello22 will be readin this thread


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Shyness: a set of behaviours, habits and feelings.

Nemesis 1: A person. In some senses the sum of and in every other sense more than and beyond the sum of his behaviours, habits and feelings.

So, what is a "shy guy"? Is there some sort of shy guy club where they all would turn up to hang out? I'm not taking the mickey out of shy guys. I'm suggesting those who identify themselves as "shy guys" pause for a moment and recognise a label is just a label. I go to the toilet a fair few times in my life. That doesn't make me a "toilet guy".

So, basically, the question is, are guys who think of themselves as "shy guys" expected by some unseen, all powerful force, to settle for women who they think are somehow less attractive than they think they themselves are?

Boy are there are a lot of problems with that.

The guy makes a guess about being a shy guy like it's some sort of fixed part of his personality. Maybe it is maybe it isn't but defining yourself through it is pure bonkers. Then that same guy makes some assumptions about how attractive they are and then some more assumptions about other people expecting things from him and the other guys who he thinks are the same as him. Then the guy makes the assumption that there are women who are less attractive than he is and is he supposed to settle for them.

Complicated stuff.

Best answer: stop seeing yourself and other people through labels.

The generally accepted and acknowledged beauty to ugly spectrum does not exist. If you think a woman is attractive, then that doesn't mean everyone else thinks the same way as you. What matter is that you have an idea of the type of woman you want in your life. The type of woman you find attractive. Go find her.


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## so_so_shy (Sep 5, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> So, what is a "shy guy"? Is there some sort of shy guy club where they all would turn up to hang out? I'm not taking the mickey out of shy guys. I'm suggesting those who identify themselves as "shy guys" pause for a moment and recognise a label is just a label. I go to the toilet a fair few times in my life. That doesn't make me a "toilet guy".


You always say this and I don't get it. I have a shy personality, they do exist you know. Toilet personalities don't! Unless you mean it figuratively when talking about someone that has a crappy personality. 

And if you honestly don't know what a shy person is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

Lol.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Im using money and looks as an advantage for my dream girl if she exists. Ill still settle for something decent at least. I would like to see some scientific evidence or at least some sort of empirical evidence showing that if anything matters.


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## Kustamogen (Dec 19, 2010)

Ospi said:


> How does someones appearance have ANYTHING to do with it? Enlighten me, please. Are you saying less attractive woman are only capable of attracting helpless, desperate men who are too shy to seek more attractive woman and thus settle? Are attractive woman only attracted to confident, extroverted men? Are we will going to be this naive and shallow?
> 
> Because if so........*rage builds*.


lol I would basically say all that


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

As mentioned attractive means different things to different people. Personality can make a person more attractive to you than they would just based on looks. And sometimes looks aren't even important. Especially if your not a teenager anymore. 

To answer the question. I have overheard comments made about me by others and have been told how females react to photos of me, etc. and have had things said to me by, shall we say, outgoing(not to mention brazen) females and basically I could be getting a damnedsite more attention from the opposite sex than I do now, if only I was able to talk to them properly. That doesn't mean that I have to "settle" for someone who is, by the tone of the question, substandard. Just that I am not going to get as much as I might like. :sigh


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Hello! I have a toilet personality!










Ladies, hit me up!


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

so_so_shy said:


> You always say this and I don't get it. I have a shy personality, they do exist you know. Toilet personalities don't! Unless you mean it figuratively when talking about someone that has a crappy personality.
> 
> And if you honestly don't know what a shy person is:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy


So much about the person and about personality can be about perception. What is your evidence for you having a "shy personality"? Have you got a break down of your genetic code with you with the "shy personality gene" circled in red? Or have you made certain judgements and assumptions about yourself based on a whole lot of other things?

I'm not saying you don't have a shy personality. Perhaps you do. I'm pointing out the need for careful thinking on this one.

Because the self image is vulnerable.

Now, I had a few experiences where I was rejected romantically by women. My mind generalised this experience and I came to the conclusion that I must be an unattractive person. Now, that judgement isn't based on anything more than my interpretation and placing of subjective meaning onto things that happened to me and how I felt about myself.

I made an assumption about the type of person I was. I gave myself a label of "unattractive person" and it wrecked my life for years because it can be very difficult to go beyond the scope of an overriding belief you hold about yourself.

Now, there is nothing automatically negative about shyness or having a shy personality, if one does have one. However, defining the self through selective and subjective interpretation and placing of meaning can be very dangerous and limiting for people.

The person has the ultimate authority on how they define themselves and how they balance the internal and external things that help construct the self image. But care must be taken about how we define ourselves as it has been demonstrated (but not proved) by some studies that it is difficult for people to go beyond their own image of themselves.

Then there's the issue of "cold reading" yourself into certain personality types and the dangers that can sometimes pose.

A "confident" person isn't "confident" all the time and a shy person isn't shy all the time or in all situations so is defining oneself by a personality trait (even if it does turn out to be really there) a good way of going about things?

The personality has a fluid, flux element to it. It is vulnerable to internal things like filters, interpretation of meaning etc and external things such as attempts by others to define us on the basis of our views, our opinions and our behaviours etc.

Often we jump quickly onto a label because it gives us some sense of who we are. And, indeed, there may be lots of truth in such a label on some occasions. But care should be taken in the defining of the self.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

No. They are expected to overcome their shyness and go after the woman (or man) that they want.


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## so_so_shy (Sep 5, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> So much about the person and about personality can be about perception. What is your evidence for you having a "shy personality"?


Look at the definition of shy, thats me to a T.
I know how I feel, its not just perception. And if you were to ask anybody I know to describe me, "really shy" would be be part of the description 100% of the time because it is 100% accurate. And thats fine by me, there is nothing wrong with it.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

PandaPop said:


> Theres loads of factors, how about shy girls that are extremely hot? Would they not be attracted to shy guys like themselves?


One might expect, but based upon all available evidence, they'd be wrong most of the time.


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## KumagoroBeam (Sep 15, 2008)

Yes, please settle for me.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Your life; you settle for what you want to settle for, period.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I'd settle for any girl at this point.


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

Settling...I hate that word.

"Settle" for someone and you'll end up regretting it IMO. He or she will too if they ever find out.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Yes, or die unhappily alone.

Your choice.


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## deirdre (Jan 18, 2011)

WintersTale, just getting a girl would not necessarily make you any happier. 
i know far too man y people that are horribly lonely - in relationships. 

sometimes it makes loneliness only worse.


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## emptybottle2 (Jan 18, 2009)

you can also go for an attractive girl who _thinks _she has no other options and would stay with you because she's afraid to be alone


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## KennethJones (Jun 22, 2009)

Crystalline said:


> Settling...I hate that word.
> 
> "Settle" for someone and you'll end up regretting it IMO. He or she will too if they ever find out.


Settling is one of the worse things you can do to yourself and the person you are with.

Think about it. How would you partner feel if they knew you "settled" for them. Thats like saying they aren't good enough for you but you settled because you couldn't get what you really wanted.

In cases such as these I believe that its either "all or nothing". Either you get what you really want or nothing at all.


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## KennethJones (Jun 22, 2009)

Ospi said:


> Are you saying less attractive woman are only capable of attracting helpless, desperate men who are too shy to seek more attractive woman and thus settle?


Generally, yes.



Ospi said:


> Are attractive woman only attracted to confident, extroverted men?


Generally, yes.

Sometimes generalities are so common that they border on the verge of objectivity and total truth. This appears to be one of those times.

The sad fact is that people do settle. It shouldn't happen but it does happen. Admitting that this happens is not being mean, its just accepting reality.

Any women that would show interest in me in my current state would be "settling". It would be an act of extreme desperation for any woman to do that and it would only serve as a confirmation as to how bad ive become.

If I was better then I would be someone's "dream".

The question is are you someone's "dream" or do you represent someone's last act of desperation?


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## KennethJones (Jun 22, 2009)

emptybottle2 said:


> you can also go for an attractive girl who _thinks _she has no other options and would stay with you because she's afraid to be alone


Why would any man want to do that to himself? A relationship like that would be so lopsided that it wouldn't work. The woman would view the man as undesirable and so she would constantly be miserable. The man would be miserable also because he is in love with a woman who will never love him back.

LOL Some of you guys have this totally twisted.


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## pariahgirl (Mar 26, 2008)

Your personality has a lot to do with who wants to date you, I wouldn't say being shy is a turn off to most women. I would say ranting about settling for ugly chicks is. Dating is hard and I do feel for you, hopefully you do find someone who you find attractive. But don't settle, its very destructive for both you and the women involved. I'd personally rather die alone than be someones silver medal.


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## Stilla (May 13, 2009)

pariahgirl
+1!!!
Agreed with everything you said. :clap


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

pariahgirl said:


> I wouldn't say being shy is a turn off to most women.


Then you'd be ignoring the personal experience of most shy men here, as well as poll results, etc.

I am quite confident you're wrong on that point.


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

yes, let's ignore what women actually say again.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

fingertips said:


> yes, let's ignore what women actually say again.


What women are you listening to?

Here on SAS, based upon all the polls and threads we've had, it seems to be about 50-50. And that's among girls who suffer from the _exact same condition_ as us. Only around half of _them_ don't find it unattractive in a partner.

Elsewhere, the picture is even more bleak. I make that claim based upon experience, observation, and discussions/polls I've seen elsewhere.

Also, I take issue with your implication that what women say is of ultimate value. That's usually not the case with personal issues. What do you trust more: the results of a survey in which men report their own penis size, or an average of actual measurements from physicians?


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Anytime you have physical or mental traits that are unattractive, you must either compensate in other areas or settle. 

But that goes back to the same old question which there is no consensus on. "Are women turned off by quiet guys?"


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## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

joinmartin said:


> So, what is a "shy guy"? Is there some sort of shy guy club where they all would turn up to hang out? I'm not taking the mickey out of shy guys. I'm suggesting those who identify themselves as "shy guys" pause for a moment and recognise a label is just a label. I go to the toilet a fair few times in my life. That doesn't make me a "toilet guy".


Well, SAS is a site full of shy guys. A lot of the other guys are going out, hanging out with friends, and getting laid. Meanwhile shy guys like us stay at home, make depressing threads like these, and ***** about not getting laid, that's the huge difference.


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## emptybottle2 (Jan 18, 2009)

KennethJones said:


> Why would any man want to do that to himself? A relationship like that would be so lopsided that it wouldn't work. The woman would view the man as undesirable and so she would constantly be miserable. The man would be miserable also because he is in love with a woman who will never love him back.
> 
> LOL Some of you guys have this totally twisted.


lol I was only half-serious. I don't think it's that bad an option, though. There are people who want an "out-of-their-league" partner badly enough not to care if the other person is settling for them.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

99.9% of the population will have to settle depending on various aspects. I wonder, though, if there is a cognitive rationalization that happens which allows for happiness. I know we do this for other cases in life.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Nae said:


> 99.9% of the population will have to settle depending on various aspects. I wonder, though, if there is a cognitive rationalization that happens which allows for happiness. I know we do this for other cases in life.


There's a difference between settling and choosing from among the options available to us. Settling is a matter of ignoring traits or issues you know are individually or collectively deal breakers.

There's a third phenomenon, though. I don't have any reason to suspect it's what the OP is doing, but I've seen others try to choose from among the options that are* not* available to them, often in an effort to elevate themselves or their self esteem through being with the "right person". For this group choosing from among their realistic options can seem like some type of settling or giving up, when it's actually a matter of giving up an illusion.


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## Haydsmom2007 (Oct 16, 2009)

No......


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## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

Well, does the personality of a 'shy' guy make him more attractive or unattractive to most? What about those shy people who suddenly find confidence in themselves when they are validated by a female who shows interest? Were they shy, or did they just need a female's interest to make them feel good about themselves? 

If you were approached by a woman who in your eyes is less attractive, and you haven't had any experience at all, and you reject them... would that make you feel better or worse? 

I think eventually everyone has to get up and go out and realize that not everyone is perfect. If everyone's basis for attraction would be only looks, then there would be a lot of lonely people. Unfortunately, some are lonely still. Whining about it will only get you so far. Imagine the emotions you will feel when you push yourself to find someone...

People think they have to settle because they do not really know or delusional to what they are worth. The reality is we all are unique. If you focus too much on one trait to determine who is in your league, then you will always be settling.


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

KennethJones said:


> Settling is one of the worse things you can do to yourself and the person you are with.
> 
> Think about it. How would you partner feel if they knew you "settled" for them. Thats like saying they aren't good enough for you but you settled because you couldn't get what you really wanted.
> 
> In cases such as these I believe that its either "all or nothing". Either you get what you really want or nothing at all.





pariahgirl said:


> Dating is hard and I do feel for you, hopefully you do find someone who you find attractive. But don't settle, its very destructive for both you and the women involved. I'd personally rather die alone than be someones silver medal.


Exactly. Well said.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

I sure hope so. For us chubby shy chicks that would totally rock.


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## strugglingforhope (Jun 13, 2009)

For some reason I sense this 'expectation' around certain people like my mom, but I guess she's probably just trying to get me to like a girl for who she is. I really don't like it when I feel like I'm less attractive to the opposite sex because of Social Anxiety, I don't think anyone would.


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Haydsmom2007 said:


> No......


 this


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

Atticus said:


> There's a difference between settling and choosing from among the options available to us. Settling is a matter of ignoring traits or issues you know are individually or collectively deal breakers.
> 
> There's a third phenomenon, though. I don't have any reason to suspect it's what the OP is doing, but I've seen others try to choose from among the options that are* not* available to them, often in an effort to elevate themselves or their self esteem through being with the "right person". For this group choosing from among their realistic options can seem like some type of settling or giving up, when it's actually a matter of giving up an illusion.


I think your last point is related to your first: If one starts off with entitlement (this is my assumption) the only option disregarding very rare circumstance is to settle. Distinguishing settling from realistically looking at our options could be a useful effort, I guess it depends upon how the majority defines settling.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

try this chat upline , NICE LEGS WHAT TIME DO THEY OPEN. :cig:cig:cig


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

> Your personality has a lot to do with who wants to date you, I wouldn't say being shy is a turn off to most women. I would say ranting about settling for ugly chicks is. Dating is hard and I do feel for you, hopefully you do find someone who you find attractive. But don't settle, its very destructive for both you and the women involved. I'd personally rather die alone than be someones silver medal.


You can be my gold medal baby.


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

Not necessarily, although I believe in my experiences it makes it harder to find a girl you are genuinely attracted too than if you were someone better with people.


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## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

This thread is wonderful, you're all awesome. 

I've never been so entertained by a thread on SAS like this.


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## mightyman (Mar 10, 2010)

what does nygirl88 think?


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## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

jonny neurotic said:


> You can be my gold medal baby.


You sir, have won this thread.


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## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

jonny neurotic said:


> You can be my gold medal baby.


You sir, have won this thread.

I'm now going to die of laughter.

EDIT: Oops double post.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm*

there is a lot of romantic bull**** flying here. England has a culture where the girl will ask you for a shag if They fancy you. An if you dont come up to scratch, leave town because it will soon be front page news. My way of looking at this age old problem is,if you meet a fine looking lady, you tell her she is ,you compliment her on her hair , figure, dress sence the hole works.then you wine an dine her an make passionate love at the end of the night. NNNNNNNNNNNNNNow if she is a dog, shaft her there an then, an then **** off for a burger on your own. //////////// lesson ended :cig:cig:cig JOKE


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## Ivan AG (Sep 29, 2010)

I don't know, why don't you guys visit a PUA website and learn how to be players?

Apparently it's what the "alpha" population is doing.

I need to go to sleep now.............


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

Have any of you men ever considered how these threads make the females on this forum feel? We all have the same insecurities that you guys do....

Here's what goes through my head when I read a thread like this: 

"Well I'm terribly sorry sir that I happen to not be a supermodel. I'll just go maroon myself on a desert island with all the other unattractive/unacceptable women."

Since when is attractiveness the only thing that matters?


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## caflme (Jun 7, 2009)

Atticus said:


> There's a difference between settling and choosing from among the options available to us. Settling is a matter of ignoring traits or issues you know are individually or collectively deal breakers.
> 
> There's a third phenomenon, though. I don't have any reason to suspect it's what the OP is doing, but I've seen others try to choose from among the options that are* not* available to them, often in an effort to elevate themselves or their self esteem through being with the "right person". For this group choosing from among their realistic options can seem like some type of settling or giving up, when it's actually a matter of giving up an illusion.


Excellent... very true... choosing from options available to us and that are realistic and appropriate - and for the right reasons... is not settling.

As you mature you realize that looks and perfect health aren't everything, character is... compatibility and dependability is... knowing that the other person will show up in your life every day and give as much as you are giving and love you as much as you love them.

Settling is choosing 'someone'... just to not be alone... for no other purpose... and overlooking very negative or incompatible flaws and shortcomings in order to attain it. Being unattractive is not a flaw... sometimes people who are less attractive on the outside are immeasurably more beautiful on the inside... it's just that no one ever gets to see it because they are usually dismissed. If someone is so hung up on outside appearances... they deserve to be alone and unhappy imo because they have their priorities screwed up and would never be able to make that other person happy because they are to caught up in 'what about me' and are not focused on the other person.

If two people are focused on making each other happy ... and not making themselves happy... then they are both happy... not because they are taking but because they are both giving - no one needs to take.

OK, I got off topic... sorry...


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

caflme said:


> Excellent... very true... choosing from options available to us and that are realistic and appropriate - and for the right reasons... is not settling.
> 
> Settling is choosing 'someone'... just to not be alone... for no other purpose... and overlooking very negative or incompatible flaws and shortcomings in order to attain it. Being unattractive is not a flaw... sometimes people who are less attractive on the outside are immeasurably more beautiful on the inside... it's just that no one ever gets to see it because they are usually dismissed. If someone is so hung up on outside appearances... they deserve to be alone and unhappy imo because they have their priorities screwed up and would never be able to make that other person happy because they are to caught up in 'what about me' and are not focused on the other person.
> 
> ...


Thumbs up  :banana


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Sindelle said:


> Have any of you men ever considered how these threads make the females on this forum feel? We all have the same insecurities that you guys do....
> 
> Here's what goes through my head when I read a thread like this:
> 
> ...


 You are right of course , my answers were tounge in cheek :tiptoe


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Yeah...:roll

You're responsible for your own life, so who gives a crap about other's expectations?


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

> There's a difference between settling and choosing from among the options available to us. Settling is a matter of ignoring traits or issues you know are individually or collectively deal breakers.


What exactly is meant by deal breaker? It's subjective and dependent on the individuals concerned. For one person a deal breaker will be based on some physical flaw. For another, appearance won't matter. And in the former case, the person ignoring this and forming a relationship, by your definition, _would_ therefore be settling: It doesn't matter if it's not sensible or realistic or they can shift their views eventually; if they can't feel any attraction unless someone fits certain criteria, that's just the way they operate.

I can be compatible with someone in nearly every way and not feel much attraction. These soddn things do not run on logic. If they did, the species would have died out. One example of this is my friend who's my ex. Our lives and other traits fit together perfectly. Yet there's no way in hell I'm going to settle in a relationship lacking attraction. Strong attraction is imperative for me and my first prerequisite. For some, it would not be a deal breaker and by the above definition, not settling. All these stupid words such as _settling_ really have little meaning, particularly when speaking generally.

Wow, this feels messed up typing this sitting beside my friend's mother.


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## solasum (Nov 17, 2008)

I think shy people of any sex are expected to. It makes sense considering a shy person doesn't go out much or talk to people, so when one finally meets someone, one settles. 

Not that they should just settle.


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

The problem with men saying things like this are basically : what is some girl who looks less attractive supposed to do?

Who are we supposed to settle for?

What is attractive anyways? By what standards are you guys judging? Because if you are all expecting a Megan Fox or something then I'm sure you'll end up "settling" because few women in the world can possibly compete with that kind of beauty.


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## zebra00 (Dec 28, 2010)

emptybottle2 said:


> you can also go for an attractive girl who _thinks _she has no other options and would stay with you because she's afraid to be alone


why would an attractive girl think she has no other options?


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

zebra00 said:


> why would an attractive girl think she has no other options?


Many woman do not think they are attractive at all even if they are beautiful. There are flaws that they see even if another person doesn't see it.

Also attractiveness doesn't mean you can't have issues.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Sindelle said:


> Many woman do not think they are attractive at all even if they are beautiful. There are flaws that they see even if another person doesn't see it.
> 
> Also attractiveness doesn't mean you can't have issues.


Either you agree that guys have it harder because we are forced to externalize for any type of socialization where as women don't have to try

or

you think that both guys and women have it equally tough, in which case you should feel a camaraderie with the guys and not hold anything against a guy that has complaints.

Either way, it shouldn't really matter how it makes you feel.


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## zebra00 (Dec 28, 2010)

Sindelle said:


> Many woman do not think they are attractive at all even if they are beautiful.
> i think a beautiful girl would know shes beautiful because of all the men hitting on her and telling her shes beautiful


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

VanDamMan said:


> Either way, it shouldn't really matter how it makes you feel.


Then why should anyone have a forum at all?

I'm constantly told on this forum that because I am a woman that I cannot have problems in relationships. Which is pretty strange because I constantly have problems. If I didn't have problems then why would I even come here?


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Sindelle said:


> Then why should anyone have a forum at all?
> 
> I'm constantly told on this forum that because I am a woman that I cannot have problems in relationships. Which is pretty strange because I constantly have problems. If I didn't have problems then why would I even come here?


Sindelle, it's because the people who are saying that want to believe it. Doesn't make it true and unfortunately they, most of them, aren't going to be swayed either. I guess they get some sort of comfort from it or something. I dunno. I don't get it. Anyway, as a female who has problems in the relationship field too, I'm there with you. I've seen several other girls around here too, with the same problem. It's not all looks related either.  If you want to be in a relationship, however, keep trying. Hope you find your someone who makes you happy.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Sindelle said:


> Have any of you men ever considered how these threads make the females on this forum feel? We all have the same insecurities that you guys do....
> 
> Here's what goes through my head when I read a thread like this:
> 
> ...


"Well I'm terribly sorry I don't have a stable life. I've fallen on hard times. That doesn't make me less of a human being though. As I guy I am expected to do all these things. So as a guy I am forced to be single forever."


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Sindelle said:


> I'm constantly told on this forum that because I am a woman that I cannot have problems in relationships. Which is pretty strange because I constantly have problems. If I didn't have problems then why would I even come here?


Well, anyone who tells that you that is misguided. A more refined version of their argument is that _fewer_ (shy) women have problems finding relationships than (shy) men. Unfortunately, it appears you are among that smaller group, which of course does not make things any easier for you as an individual.


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> "Well I'm terribly sorry I don't have a stable life. I've fallen on hard times. That doesn't make me less of a human being though. As I guy I am expected to do all these things. So as a guy I am forced to be single forever."


I don't know who you are quoting, but that's not true. You're young and you don't know what will happen for you in the future.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

Sindelle said:


> The problem with men saying things like this are basically : what is some girl who looks less attractive supposed to do?
> 
> Who are we supposed to settle for?
> 
> What is attractive anyways? By what standards are you guys judging? Because if you are all expecting a Megan Fox or something then I'm sure you'll end up "settling" because few women in the world can possibly compete with that kind of beauty.


I've seen arguments (and i think i also posted one here using an okcupid blog that compared response rates to attractiveness scores) that say in general women are harsher judges of physical appearance of the opposite sex than men. So I've wondered if when men talk about physical attraction, and women hear it, the women are filtering the discussion through their own perceptions, those perceptions being anywhere from 60-80 percent of men aren't seen as extremely attractive. For men, "less attractive" may not be as of a steep decline as is going from Brad Pitt to..I dunno, for women.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Yes.


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

Contrary to popular belief, people don't really base their decisions of attraction on the basis of aesthetic appearance (assuming of course you aren't an exception, such as incredibly ugly). Rather it is done on the basis of personality. 

Now, since the vast, vast majority of girls (and guys) with social anxiety (or who are introverted in general) aren't that good looking (which is probably what causes this social anxiety in the first place), then yes, shy guys are going to be getting ugly girls. But it isn't BECAUSE these girls are ugly. It's because they have similar personalities, and ugliness is only a side order.


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## LatchKeyKid (Jul 30, 2010)

sighsigh said:


> Contrary to popular belief, people don't really base their decisions of attraction on the basis of aesthetic appearance (assuming of course you aren't an exception, such as incredibly ugly). Rather it is done on the basis of personality.
> 
> Now, since the vast, vast majority of girls (and guys) with social anxiety (or who are introverted in general) aren't that good looking (which is probably what causes this social anxiety in the first place), then yes, shy guys are going to be getting ugly girls. But it isn't BECAUSE these girls are ugly. It's because they have similar personalities, and ugliness is only a side order.


Your theory sucks.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

sighsigh said:


> Contrary to popular belief, people don't really base their decisions of attraction on the basis of aesthetic appearance (assuming of course you aren't an exception, such as incredibly ugly). Rather it is done on the basis of personality.
> 
> Now, *since the vast, vast majority of girls (and guys) with social anxiety (or who are introverted in general) aren't that good looking* (which is probably what causes this social anxiety in the first place), then yes, shy guys are going to be getting ugly girls. But it isn't BECAUSE these girls are ugly. It's because they have similar personalities, and ugliness is only a side order.


In regards to the statement in bold: What are you basing that on? e.g. What evidence? 
How people feel about their own appearance can often be radically different from how other people see them. Putting aside personal preferance - There are probably some basic physical traits that more than 50% of people deem to be on the attractive side and there are certain looks that are considered "conventionally attractive" (but again, not all would agree). However someone who does posses those traits and has that "look" can not always see it that objectively, even if they like certain traits of theirs, there are always flaws that may be so insignificant or hardly noticeable to other people that it doesn't affect their opinion but to the person with those "flaws", that can be all they focus on and in their eyes overshadow any okay/nice traits. Maybe that person can only focus on any negative comments they've received and even if they've been told many more positive ones they are easily ignored or dismissed.

What I'm getting at is, when people here vent about how ugly they feel, how much they want to be good looking or at least normal looking, and sometimes even that it would cure their SA, all of the time they are being much too harsh on their appearance than they realize... There are many attractive people who also happen to have SA or are introverted, and there are many more who are mostly average or completely normal looking.
I've met A LOT of people with SA and even more who are introverted and they are no more attractive or unattractive than the average person. Unattractiveness on its own does not cause SA, even though for many it is a major focus and appears to be the reason they are so nervous and depressed all the time. Causes are always much more complex than that.

In addition, there are many people whose feelings of self-worth, self-esteem and confidence are _not _simply based on how ****able and aesthetically-pleasing they are. (Crazy concept, I know!)


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Sindelle said:


> Then why should anyone have a forum at all?
> 
> I'm constantly told on this forum that because I am a woman that I cannot have problems in relationships. Which is pretty strange because I constantly have problems. If I didn't have problems then why would I even come here?


First lets differentiate between "problems getting relationships" and "problems in relationships". They are two very different things.

I object to you trying to shame SA guys from venting by saying you are somehow worse off for them doing so. Either your have it the same or better.

A SA guy with romantic problems has little to do with you if you have the same exact problems. If anything, it should draw you closer.

I don't really understand the objections by women with these types of threads. Guys' complaints really aren't directed at the SA women. Yet there seems to be type of defense as if the SA women were implicated. The only thing I can think of is that there is some guilt by SA women, that they know the SA guys complaints are true, and women don't know how to emotioanlly deal with the fact they might have certain dating/relationship aspects easier.


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to say that introverted members of the population have the same average aesthetic standards comparable to extroverted members. 

Yeah, saying "causes" was tactless, but I had a class to rush to when I was writing this. "Contributes" is accurate.


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

VanDamMan said:


> First lets differentiate between "problems getting relationships" and "problems in relationships". They are two very different things.
> 
> I object to you trying to shame SA guys from venting by saying you are somehow worse off for them doing so. Either your have it the same or better.
> 
> A SA guy with romantic problems has little to do with you if you have the same exact problems. If anything, it should draw you closer.


If I can't get an actual boyfriend beyond the first few dates then for me its a problem in getting a relationship.

I'm not trying to shame anyone. I think that the thread is offensive because many people here on SAS have issue with their appearance, myself included. Women in particular are judged pretty harshly.

I guess I'm wondering , as a not-as-attractive-as-I-could-be woman, who am I supposed to date? No one is supposed to settle for me remeber?

I'd think that people would date people who have a similar level of physical attractiveness as they do.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

I can't possibly have been the only one surprised by just how impossible it is to tell social anxiety from appearance..?
Quite a few times I've thought _"Wow, I can't believe somebody this interesting and beautiful is having the same kind of problems with insecurity and self-doubt as me"_ - apparently I'm a bit special for not having caught on yet :b

I quite hate statistics. Especially when statistics are applied to individuals.
If drug A has 80% and drug B has 35% efficiency, statistically drug A is better, but if it doesn't work for me it seems to lose all bearing on the problem. Even more so if drug B was actually the one that would have cured me.
That girls with low confidence are statistically more likely to be sexually active and be in relationships than boys with low confidence really doesn't matter for those it's not happening for - it's equally real for both.


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## LatchKeyKid (Jul 30, 2010)

sighsigh said:


> I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to say that introverted members of the population have the same average aesthetic standards comparable to extroverted members.


I've met quite a lot of socially anxious people in real life (think 20-25). They're no less attractive than the average extrovert. I don't know where you're getting your ideas.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

VanDamMan said:


> First lets differentiate between "problems getting relationships" and "problems in relationships". They are two very different things.
> 
> I object to you trying to shame SA guys from venting by saying you are somehow worse off for them doing so. Either your have it the same or better.
> 
> ...


It is their GUILT talking. But they shouldn't react to it like that.


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

VanDamMan said:


> I don't really understand the objections by women with these types of threads. Guys' complaints really aren't directed at the SA women. Yet there seems to be type of defense as if the SA women were implicated. The only thing I can think of is that there is some guilt by SA women, that they know the SA guys complaints are true, and women don't know how to emotioanlly deal with the fact they might have certain dating/relationship aspects easier.


Its because you are saying "women". Last time I checked thats what I was. When you generalize like that how can you expect for someone to not be offended? Am I less of a female because I have SA?

If you aren't directing it at the women here, then that should be indicated. When I start threads on this subject, I don't say "why do men do X?" or "Men always ______" because that wouldn't be true. Because ALL men aren't the same.

And why should *I* feel guilty if some other woman rejects a man for being shy? I wouldn't do that so the blame isn't on me.

If I had it easier, like I said, I wouldn't be here. Why would I lie about something as shameful as not being able to get a boyfriend?


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> I don't really understand the objections by women with these types of threads. Guys' complaints really aren't directed at the SA women. Yet there seems to be type of defense as if the SA women were implicated. The only thing I can think of is that there is some guilt by SA women, that they know the SA guys complaints are true, and women don't know how to emotioanlly deal with the fact they might have certain dating/relationship aspects easier.


you don't have to be an sa woman to disagree with the whole "women have it easier/don't like nice (or good, or introverted) guys" narrative. :stu


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Sindelle said:


> If I can't get an actual boyfriend beyond the first few dates then for me its a problem in getting a relationship.





Sindelle said:


> I'm not trying to shame anyone. I think that the thread is offensive because many people here on SAS have issue with their appearance, myself included. Women in particular are judged pretty harshly.


I agree, women are more critically judged on their appearance. Guys can skate with a confident personality. One thing most women don't realize, and most guys don't even realize, an homely girl can attract a lot of guys with a confident personality.



Sindelle said:


> I guess I'm wondering , as a not-as-attractive-as-I-could-be woman, who am I supposed to date? No one is supposed to settle for me remeber?


The fact you've been on dates means its not your looks that are the problem.



Sindelle said:


> Its because you are saying "women". Last time I checked thats what I was. When you generalize like that how can you expect for someone to not be offended? Am I less of a female because I have SA?


You should be able to adsorb the connotation of what is being said. The chances of a SA guy and gal dating are very remote. So women with SA really aren't part of the dating/relationship population that these guys have problems with. You aren't less of a woman, just a different type. Consider it a compliment.



Sindelle said:


> And why should *I* feel guilty if some other woman rejects a man for being shy? I wouldn't do that so the blame isn't on me.


You shouldn't. I am just guessing the reason for the reactions. If you said you dated a bunch of jerks or all guys were jerks, I wouldn't be offended. I don't consider myself a jerk. I'd try to explain why guys treated you like a jerk. I am secure that I am not a jerk.



fingertips said:


> you don't have to be an sa woman to disagree with the whole "women have it easier/don't like nice (or good, or introverted) guys" narrative. :stu


 I don't think women have it totally easier either. But most women seem averse to examining which aspects are easier for guys and girls. Relationships and dating aren't equally difficult in the same areas. IMO the one thing that stops many guys from discussing womens disadvantages in dating/relationships is that women get offended refuse to acknowledge the guys frustrations.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Arrested Development said:


> I would have to disagree with you on that one. Since I've been here I have noticed that sometimes when people seem to take offense or automatically get defensive over a topic, it is because the topic has served as a trigger to whatever it is that person is insecure about. For example, a woman makes a thread about issues dating and is soliciting advice. A man (or men) who has issues dating comes into the thread and gets defensive and starts ranting how women have it easy, no one will date me, you're all shallow,etc. and the op had absolutely nothing to do with what this person is now bringing up. This scenario, and similar ones, has happened over, and over, and over, and over.......and over again. Well, guess what? Men aren't the only ones who feel inadequate in dating, and do not have the market cornered on low self esteem. ****!
> 
> That is only one example. I have also seen women do similar things, and actually I myself have fallen prey to reacting when an op made a thread about something I was insecure about. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think that guilt has much to do with it. Especially not in this case with Sindelle.


I agree with the triggers theory. I don't recall many guys jumping another woman's complaint thread, but doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

There is a difference between changing the subject and refusing to acknowledge it. Those times when guys hijack a woman's complaint or advice thread, they should swept back on track of the subject.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

sighsigh said:


> Contrary to popular belief, people don't really base their decisions of attraction on the basis of aesthetic appearance (assuming of course you aren't an exception, such as incredibly ugly). Rather it is done on the basis of personality.
> 
> Now, since the vast, vast majority of girls (and guys) with social anxiety (or who are introverted in general) aren't that good looking (which is probably what causes this social anxiety in the first place), then yes, shy guys are going to be getting ugly girls. But it isn't BECAUSE these girls are ugly. It's because they have similar personalities, and ugliness is only a side order.


Dude. I'm all for generalizations when backed up by either statistics or extensive observation, but I'm just not seeing this one at all. There are quite a large number of hot girls posting in the pics thread here.

I agree that ugly people are more likely to have SA than attractive people, but ugliness is but one of many potential causes of SA. If you look at the entire pool of people with SA, I doubt their average level of attractiveness is even noticeably different from the general population. Maybe just a smidge lower at most.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

VanDamMan said:


> I don't really understand the objections by women with these types of threads. Guys' complaints really aren't directed at the SA women. Yet there seems to be type of defense as if the SA women were implicated. The only thing I can think of is that there is some guilt by SA women, that they know the SA guys complaints are true, and women don't know how to emotioanlly deal with the fact they might have certain dating/relationship aspects easier.


Ouch.

I suspect you're digging far closer to the truth than some women here are comfortable with. (And perhaps the mods, too, but let's hope not).

I could not agree more, based on my time here, that guilt is *one* motivating factor behind *some* of the female outrage on SAS. It's not simply the disingenuous arguments the girls use giving it away; it's the haste with which they become inexplicably defensive, and the things they choose to get defensive over.

I'd add that the guilt could be over what you're saying, and/or it could also pertain to the girls feeling unattracted to men who are similar to themselves.

So I think your assessment is harsh, but at least partially valid.


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## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

VanDamMan said:


> I don't really understand the objections by women with these types of threads. Guys' complaints really aren't directed at the SA women. Yet there seems to be type of defense as if the SA women were implicated. The only thing I can think of is that there is some guilt by SA women, that they know the SA guys complaints are true, and women don't know how to emotioanlly deal with the fact they might have certain dating/relationship aspects easier.


It might also be that if they really do have it easier, why do some of these SA women still never get into a relationship? What does this say about them in comparison to girlfriend-less SA guys?


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

shynesshellasucks said:


> It might also be that if they really do have it easier, why do some of these SA women still never get into a relationship? What does this say about them in comparison to girlfriend-less SA guys?


SA women are still anxious and have problems communicating like guys , they just don't face the same social barriers of entry to dating and relationships that guys do.

If we could find enough SA guys in relationships, maybe we could make a comparison.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

shynesshellasucks said:


> It might also be that if they really do have it easier, why do some of these SA women still never get into a relationship? What does this say about them in comparison to girlfriend-less SA guys?


That's an interesting point, and one I hadn't really considered much until you raised it. In that context, I can actually understand why perpetually-single women here find our perspective offensive.

However, I must say that many of the most vocal women on this issue _are_ in relationships, or at least have a dating history to speak of. Thus, I think it stands to reason that other factors must be at play too.


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## coeur_brise (Oct 7, 2004)

I don't think any girl wants to be the one their boyfriend "settled for" so.. nuff said. I mean, there is such thing as mutual attraction, with or without shyness. I just see it as unnecessary to settle for someone if you're not going to be happy with them or for any other reason.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

All these shy guys whining about not being able to get a girlfriend is interesting. If you have SA, HAVING a girlfriend is extremely hard work and for me never ends well. I can get a girlfriend, no worries. But I'm not scared of getting one. I'm scared of having one. As for attractiveness. That's so subjective it CAN'T be argued. I find many women gorgeous who others do not and vice versa. I'd never settle for someone who *I* didn't find attractive, and nor should I need to. And besides, not showing your partner much respect if you are dating them DESPITE you not being attracted. That's just idiotic. Hot does not = attractive. We all have our own views. And no-one should 'settle'. No-one.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

A lot of these guys make out that only attractive girls (Despite being subjective) are worthy of their l;ove but since they can't get one 'have' to settle.

flame away, deperados!


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

anomalous said:


> That's an interesting point, and one I hadn't really considered much until you raised it. In that context, I can actually understand why perpetually-single women here find our perspective offensive.
> 
> Because they have SA! Because they have fear about what people think about their apprearance, and then read that men only wanmt 'hot' girls and complain about having to settle for non-hot girls. How are they MEANT to feel? These threads perpetuate their SA.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Selbbin said:


> Because they have SA! Because they have fear about what people think about their apprearance, and then read that men only wanmt 'hot' girls and complain about having to settle for non-hot girls. How are they MEANT to feel? These threads perpetuate their SA.


Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I said I understand why it's offensive.

But let's be real for a minute. How often do guys on SAS _really_ say anything about "hot girls?" How often do they speak disparagingly of girls who aren't "hot?" I could be missing something, but I don't see a lot of threads in this subforum titled "Can't get a hottie, FML." It's usually more like, "No girl has ever paid attention to me, ever."

This thread has probably one of the edgier titles in recent memory, and even it isn't as provocative as some are making it out to be. "Less attractive than them" doesn't equate to "less than a supermodel," in most of our cases. I'm sure the majority of SAS girls would fall above any given SAS guy's threshold for "acceptable" physical attractiveness. Based on the picture thread (which admittedly may provide a skewed perspective), this is definitely true for me.

I think the lion's share of men, especially on here where so many have learned humility from their spot on the social totem pole, simply want a girl they are at least minimally attracted to physically. It has nothing to do with "hot" girls. I'm very confident that *most* of us would love nothing more than that 5 or 6 who has most of the non-physical attributes we're looking for. (Personally, every girl I've ever had a big crush on since HS has been someone the general population of guys might deem a 4-6). And I'm sure the exact same thing can be said of women, so I don't feel particularly guilty saying it.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

That's the same old excuse that men only want super models. Bull. I sure as hell don't expect to find no super model and I know for sure MANY guys out there who have been single forever, never got interest before, are the same way. You have no true defense.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

anomalous said:


> Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I said I understand why it's offensive.


I know. I was kind of backing you up.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> That's the same old excuse that men only want super models. Bull. I sure as hell don't expect to find no super model and I know for sure MANY guys out there who have been single forever, never got interest before, are the same way. You have no true defense.


So..if this generalization about men is untrue (which I agree with you, it is) then isn't it also possible that the generalizations that you believe about women are equally untrue?

You are so young to be so jaded and bitter...it is not unusual for someone to have never had a relationship at the age of 20. It's too early for you to be giving up like this. I rarely see you post anything on these forums that doesn't involve expressing anger towards women..have you thought that maybe if you put that anger aside, and tried to post in a more friendly and positive way, you might start making female friends? Then maybe, just maybe, you'd see that we aren't so bad?

I doubt you care about any advice from me anyway, but there it is..


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

au Lait said:


> You are so young to be so jaded and bitter...it is not unusual for someone to have never had a relationship at the age of 20.


That's what I've been trying to say. He's still younger than I was when I got my first kiss, let alone more.

If I gave up then I wouldn't have met the 3 incredible women that have helped form my life. Too bad I am useless and couldn't keep them. But that just proves it's not the getting that's the problem, but the keeping. I know I am a terrible BF so I don't try anymore. But I think I have the right to give up, and I don't blame anyone but me.

But apparently my experience counts for nothing; even though I've been there and done that. Even though reading his blog sounds almost exactly like me at that age, which is why I am trying, in my own dumb way, to encourage him not to hate, but to embrace. Because IT WILL happen. And I bet he's a keeper when it does. I bet she will draw him out and prove to him the realities. But only if he's open, and patient. Stranger25 has a lot to offer and behind his wall I see a genuine, caring guy who's gonna make someone happy... but only if he let's down his defenses and opens himself up to a bit more pain.


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## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

What was said in the previous post is the harsh truth for many of us. So after all that, what can one do?


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> Do you know how it is to live for years without a social life? Without even one friend? anybody?


Absolutely.

And you just described me aged 14 - 18. And kind of 26 -30 as well.

I like you. I really do. I hate seeing you lonely. I know how it feels which is why I feel the need to assure you that it changes. So keep trying.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Oh, and I'd like to note that in my days of complete isolation there was no internet or chat rooms or blogs or forums for any form of modern venting. I sat in the basement watching movies. There was no connection at all, except to fantasy worlds.


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> anomalous said:
> 
> 
> > That's an interesting point, and one I hadn't really considered much until you raised it. In that context, I can actually understand why perpetually-single women here find our perspective offensive.
> ...


I think Selbinn is right, especially in my case. I think sometimes men really do not understand how much a woman is really judged by her appearance which makes just the title of this thread relaly hard for someone like me who has been CONSTANTLY put down every day of their life over their appearance.

I don't think I am totally unattractive, but I don't fit the criteria of hotness that Hollywood and the modeling industry dictates. I have a lot of flaws that drive me absolutely insane and I spend an enormous amount of time thinking about. I compare myself to every other female, and feel inferior to her if she is more attractive. I can never measure up to that standard no matter how hard I try, even if I lost all the weight I could lose and had plastic surgery. Sometimes I feel like less of human being because my appearance simply isn't up to par.

I feel like my attractiveness is the number one factor in having a man. Though I have often been told I am pretty by some men, I have also been insulted pretty harshly especially over my weight. Since I have SA I tend to focus on more negative comments instead of positive ones and I usually feel totally and completely disgusting, unsexy, and unappealing to males. It's something I am trying to work on.


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## Judith (Sep 27, 2008)

Nah. For one, I'm sure there are girls out there attracted to shy guys. Personally I wouldn't mind dating a guy who's a bit socially awkward as long as he wasn't insecure in other areas. If you're a catch in other ways, you shouldn't have a problem dating other "catches" if you're willing to take the plunge in asking them out.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

leonardess said:


> absolutely. everyone expects it.


Um... ok.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Selbbin said:


> Because they have SA! Because they have fear about what people think about their apprearance, and then read that men only wanmt 'hot' girls and complain about having to settle for non-hot girls. How are they MEANT to feel? These threads perpetuate their SA.


That would actually make sense, if all of them were not hot. However, I've seen some pretty "hot" girls on here who call themselves ugly. In that, they're fooling themselves, because they're very attractive, so the guys were talking about them, anyways.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> That would actually make sense, if all of them were not hot. However, I've seen some pretty "hot" girls on here who call themselves ugly. In that, they're fooling themselves, because they're very attractive, so the guys were talking about them, anyways.


It's about feeling, not reality. SA is an irrational fear. So 'hot' girls can still be extremely anxious about how they look. They can still feel ugly or fear what people think of them.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> Heh. Nothing changes. How is anything supposed to change? How am I supposed to make friends my age when people my age want nothing to do with me in real life?.


Nothing changes if you don't allow it to.

I made friends, and generally still do, with people who were much older than me. My friends when I have them are always about 5 - 10 years older. I also missed my youth, but in my mid- 20s met a guy who was in his mid-30s and we both went off and finally behaved like teenagers, and it was great.

Times change. You have a social release, which is the internet. I didn't have that. Use it to make friends, as net friends are still real. But you HAVE to be positive. No-one wants to hang out with a downer. From that grow a basis. Also, try to go to places where people share a mutual interest. You'll meet a buddy, and the one thing I have learned is one friend leads to many as you get accepted into their circle.

Ignore age. Look for older friends. You don't need a friend your age; and you may not be living your teenage years as a teenager, but that time will come. And for me I am glad it came later. It was more fun and, well, I had a ton more money that I would have had as a teen!

And FORGET about the 'standards.' I Caps because I've been trying to tell you this since day 1. Don't use TV or high school to judge a girl's wants. They have no basis in reality. When will you open up and trust older people's experiences? People who have been there, in the dark void where you are? People who have already taken that journey and want to tell you now what they wish they knew back then?

Yes, you will get judged. And SA makes that hard. And for me that was a huge issue. But then I met someone who didn't judge. She just came into my life when I least expected it. And I felt at home. You never know when it's gonna happen. Could take a long time. Could be tomorrow. But it will never happen if you don't allow yourself to be found.

Your future's bright, man, just gotta step outside into the sun.

I GET IT. Pm me anytime.


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## TheGMan (Jun 10, 2004)

FWIW,
I've always done better than my looks would warrant. I'm not saying I've had many situations, but I've had meaningful relationships. The females have always been more attractive and desirable than I am. They don't give up much in the way of IQ points either.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Self esteem is reality oriented im not surprised of gorgeous women settling for less because of low self esteem


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I think all men should henceforth settle for vile, diseased looking women with execrable personalities. No, I'm just really jaded because I want to get harpooned. God, I would be a centerfold in comparison -the unofficial patron saint of cracked out floozies. My pipe dream.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Drella said:


> I think all men should henceforth settle for vile, diseased looking women with execrable personalities. No, I'm just really jaded because I want to get harpooned. God, I would be a centerfold in comparison -the unofficial patron saint of cracked out floozies. My pipe dream.


Oh Drella, I'm sure you're entirely rapeworthy.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> That would actually make sense, if all of them were not hot. However, I've seen some pretty "hot" girls on here who call themselves ugly. In that, they're fooling themselves, because they're very attractive, so the guys were talking about them, anyways.


Yeah that annoys me, like when a skinny girl says "i look so fat in this pic" and she is a size 0 so unless she has anorexia its just attention seeking.

I only say i look fat if i honestly mean it and being overweight for a long period of time until about two years ago, i would not have been offended if people had said "yeah you are on the chunky side but thats cool" But i have had guys say "ew i would not date her, she is fat" "size 16 YUK" so that kind of stuffed me up a bit but now i think it would be nice for people to be honest with their pics and say "this is a nice one of me OR yeah i look nice in this" because its not being conceited to love yourself or think you are attractive in a good way

Also i do not think men should have to settle for an "unattractive girl" although beauty is in the eye of the beholder so i try to hold on to that when i see handsome young men with overweight grumpy women who are a good ten years older then them and the other way round too, like a skinny outgoing funny girl with a lard *** who sits at home all day eating while she works and cleans the house, (my friend bex is in that situation because she thinks she wont ever do any better)

I think if you are attracted to someone and they are attracted to you then who cares what others think of how they look?
If you find someone hot and they find u hot in return then thats awesome :wink

so perhaps those handsome men with the ugly overweight nasty women find them generally attractive and the women with the lazy fat boyfriends find them gorgeous who knows?

people are strange


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## dirtyglass (Feb 1, 2011)

I was lucky. My girl is shy with a beautiful face and bangin bod. She's real smart & cooks for me. Maybe I lucked out being that we're both shy. Rats of my youth? gritty to her.


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## OtherGlove (Dec 28, 2010)

^^^
Yeah, my last girlfriend was really shy and really cute. But most of my girlfriends have been very pretty either way.


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## Cyber Lume (Sep 19, 2010)

Who exactly is expecting you to settle for less attractive women (however you define them)?


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

Selbbin said:


> That's what I've been trying to say. He's still younger than I was when I got my first kiss, let alone more.


Me too. I didn't have my first anything, relationship-wise, until I was about 23. There's no set schedule. It happens differently for everyone.



Selbbin said:


> If I gave up then I wouldn't have met the 3 incredible women that have helped form my life. *Too bad I am useless and couldn't keep them.* But that just proves it's not the getting that's the problem, but the keeping.* I know I am a terrible BF so I don't try anymore. But I think I have the right to give up, and I don't blame anyone but me*.


I don't think you should give up either, Selbbin. I don't think anyone here should give up, no matter their age. Life can change in an instant, and none of us know what will happen tomorrow. Relationships are basically trial and error. Very few people get it right the first time. Some do (for example my sister has been with her first bf for 6 years), but many people have to date around before they find a good match. Don't beat yourself up over the relationships that didn't work out. Just look at it as a learning experience. You were able to learn what works and what doesn't, as well as what you like and what you don't like. Even our mistakes serve a purpose, in that they teach us valuable things about ourselves and others. You can learn from these lessons and figure out how to make future relationships work.

It's good to take responsibility for your actions, but at the same time don't be so hard on yourself.


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## ch3rry (Apr 8, 2007)

nemesis1 said:


> Well?


its not that you are expected to settle.. when u meet that right person it wont matter what they look like anyway, of course the looks might be part of why you like them but not always are looks most important


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

people generally end up with exactly what they think they deserve. keep that in mind.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Oh, I change my answer to "No."


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

bkitty1 said:


> people generally end up with exactly what they think they deserve. keep that in mind.


Very true. How else can you explain all the pretty girls going out with such douchebags?


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

I don't see why they should? There are a lot of shy girls who don't look like a dog's a**.. and if shy attracts shy then there ya go.. a match lol!


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## Tom1210 (Feb 9, 2011)

Hmm with my experience il have to say yes


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Eh? I'm kinda shy (only around women, really) and physical attractiveness is wayyyy down my list of desired attributes. My last crush was visibly overweight.
Can't say if she was "less attractive" than me though.


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## BetaBoy90 (Jan 5, 2010)

Hell no I'm not settling, the only settling I'm interested in is when she settles for me!


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

^Being shy should not make much of a difference - the key is self-confidence anyway.


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

expected by who?


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## OtherGlove (Dec 28, 2010)

BetaBoy90 said:


> Hell no I'm not settling, the only settling I'm interested in is when she settles for me!


I love that Philosophy


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