# Have you tried dating a younger woman?



## davemason2k (Feb 11, 2005)

Just wondering, my cousin is very similar to me and he has a girlfriend who is 8 years younger than him. Have you guys tried going out with more immature girls as opposed to girls your age. Sometimes I feel like I'm still 18-20 rather than 25 and I really don't relate to anyone in my graduating class these days. Most of my old friends and classmates have families, a career, and children. A totally different world. Has anyone tried it? Did it make a difference or no?


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## path0gen (Jun 28, 2006)

You're girlfriend is 17? That seems rather wrong.


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## davemason2k (Feb 11, 2005)

You need to reread that again. I said my cousin's girlfriend is 8 years younger than him. He's 30


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## Airick10 (May 10, 2007)

17 is legal if I'm not mistaken.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

Yeah, but it got annoying having to drop her off at school all the time.


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## path0gen (Jun 28, 2006)

Ah, I misread. However, it certainly sounds like you _want_ to date 17 year olds. :um


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Well, women are generally more mature then men, so a younger one would be on your level if that makes sense. I think that within 5 years it is reasonable.


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## davemason2k (Feb 11, 2005)

path0gen, no, that's not what I said. In fact I didn't mention 17 at all. Stay off the drugs


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## Gabriellabos (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: re: Have you tried dating a younger woman?*



davemason2k said:


> path0gen, no, that's not what I said. In fact I didn't mention 17 at all. Stay off the drugs


:haha


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## Brax (Jun 15, 2005)

My 19 year old cousin had a baby with a 16 year old girl. They're still going strong. 'Course, that's legal here, for the record.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

:lol

It is legal in some states, just so you don't take pictures.

:um :hide 

(One ticket to hell, window seat please. I've been reading Fark.com too much...)




In all honesty, if any girl is in college or planning to go to college, it would be too tough to be in a relationship, IMO. I guess part of that depends on the major they choose and how far they are away from you, but I would think that your lives would be too different.


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## GaSS PaNiCC (Mar 27, 2007)

Well it depends really on how much younger you were thinking, my friend is going out with a 14 year old and he's 20...IMO it is uncalled for and just plain weird. I guess it shows you how much of an insecure person he is, nicest guy in the world just for some reason he chooses the strangest relationships. In your case it's different, if you were to date a younger woman you both would be mature adults so there's nothing wrong with it. But in my opinion you should not date anyone under the age of 20, it would just seem strange and probably wouldn't be the stablest relationship. Yet again though it all really depends, sometimes you can make an exception but it has to be a really good reason to make it plausible. And i understand where you're coming from, i love younger women but there obviously is a line you have to draw somewhere. Like in my case i wouldn't date anyone under the age of 17, but they it would have to be a real exception for it to be the 17 year old.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

People really only get worse into their twenties, it seems. The ages of 23-27 are probably the worst. By the time you are 30, if you are bitter and feel you are lacking something, at least you have felt it long enough to be closer to numb to it. I guess it's more important to have your life on track in general. I've seen the guys with girlfriends 6 years younger and one is good and the other is just on and off madness and confusion. It seems like a lot of work. I don't have energy for that stuff.


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## Lonelyguy (Nov 8, 2003)

I've never dated but I don't have much of a problem with age as long as she's not young enough to be my daughter. Personality is far more important to me.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: re: Have you tried dating a younger woman?*



Johnny1234 said:


> Well, women are generally more mature then men


(Adult) women are generally far more immature then men, they simply get there first (and end first).

Indeed, it seems that while they achieve maturity earlier then males, they also tend to cap before their 20s, which means they are stuck into permanent adolescence. On the other end, most males keep going well after their teens and eventually reach their full level of maturity somewhere around their 30s.

A full grown male is usually 100% business and a pretty distressing creature to be around with unless you know how to compete. Expect a large does of cold logic and harsh realism.

A woman in her 30s is still the same thrill-seeking, emotion centered individual she was at 18.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

I'm 23, and if I could communicate with women, I'd be open to a relationship with women as young as 16. Of course, if she's that young, she would have to be amazingly mature for her age, but girls like that do exist.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: re: Have you tried dating a younger woman?*



Lyric Suite said:


> I'm 29, and if I could communicate with women, I'd be open to a relationship


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

*Re: re: Have you tried dating a younger woman?*



Lyric Suite said:


> Johnny1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, women are generally more mature then men
> ...


Your definition of "mature" is skewed. Being more emotionally centered rather than logically centered does not make a person immature or irresponsible (or inferior).


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

If an adult is too socially undeveloped to date another adult, he or she has to wait until he or she develops sufficently to date another adult. Dating people we would consider children in almost any other context is contemptable. Age gaps like 20-14 and 23-16 have been mentioned in this thread, and they aren't OK.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Hear hear


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## Xplash (Sep 28, 2005)

I am 24 and i would date an 18 year old. I often see guys my age with girls around 18 or. But i dont see 24y/o girls with 18 y/o guys though.


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## person86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Atticus said:


> If an adult is too socially undeveloped to date another adult, he or she has to wait until he or she develops sufficently to date another adult. Dating people we would consider children in almost any other context is contemptable. Age gaps like 20-14 and 23-16 have been mentioned in this thread, and they aren't OK.


But why aren't those age gaps "okay"?

I'm not saying large age gaps don't seem "creepy" somehow, because I think they do. But, while society may frown on large age gaps, if two people of different ages both relate to each other on about the same level (assuming both people are also able to give reasonably well-thought-out consent)... well, what's wrong with that?


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

The important part was "Dating people we would consider children in almost any other context" not the age gap in itself.


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

Xplash said:


> I am 24 and i would date an 18 year old. I often see guys my age with girls around 18 or. But i dont see 24y/o girls with 18 y/o guys though.


I've dated younger guys. :afr


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Dating younger people is nothing bad like some of you make it out to be. I am 17 but I would go as far as 13/14 if I had to make that choice. It's your own business really, and as long as the person you are dating is at least a teenager then there is nothing wrong with that.


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## dez (Jun 25, 2005)

*Re: re: Have you tried dating a younger woman?*



Lyric Suite said:


> On the other end, most males keep going well after their teens and eventually reach their full level of maturity somewhere around their 30s.


 :lol I can't help but find this amusing.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

person86 said:


> Atticus said:
> 
> 
> > If an adult is too socially undeveloped to date another adult, he or she has to wait until he or she develops sufficently to date another adult. Dating people we would consider children in almost any other context is contemptable. Age gaps like 20-14 and 23-16 have been mentioned in this thread, and they aren't OK.
> ...


Lostinreverie understood what I was getting at. 14 year olds, in our culture, are children. 16 year olds are in a gray area, but gray isn't good enough, so they're kids too.

Some posters are suggesting that the solution to their difficulty relating to their age peers is solved by seeking out younger people, precisely because the younger people are less experienced. Being a socially awkward 20 something might put your conversation skills on a par with someone in their mid teens, but that's no basis for a relationship. Your need for a relationship doesn't give you the right to risk violating someone's innocence. It also doesn't give you the right to assume that you know whose innocence is worth preserving. We ought to error on the side of protecting the child.


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## leppardess (Nov 8, 2003)

Atticus said:


> person86 said:
> 
> 
> > Atticus said:
> ...


 :agree Well said, Atticus.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Atticus said:


> person86 said:
> 
> 
> > Atticus said:
> ...


I dont consider a 14 year old a child anymore. People are now having sex at the age of 12. A 14 year old is a freshman in high school, so thats good enough for me.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

What the ****? You have got to just be trolling.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

johnny1234 said:


> I dont consider a 14 year old a child anymore. People are now having sex at the age of 12. A 14 year old is a freshman in high school, so thats good enough for me.


Are you kidding me or what? :sus


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

Adolescents aren't children and don't need near as much protecting as little kids do. The age gap between 20 and 14 does spike the creep-o-meter though. 20 and 16 seems ok. 25 and 16.. eh, that's really pushing it. I don't think I'd date anyone below 18. When I was 19, I had a "thing" with a 15 yr old, and that was really pushing my limit.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Johnny1234 said:


> I dont consider a 14 year old a child anymore. People are now having sex at the age of 12. A 14 year old is a freshman in high school, so thats good enough for me.


I think you said you're 17. If you are, I'm not really aiming any of my comments at you. However, your logic is a little flawed. You seem to draw the line at 14. Why? Could it be that you think it would be wrong to do a 12 year old? If so, why?

I think your reason why is my reason why.


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## leppardess (Nov 8, 2003)

Johnny1234 said:


> I dont consider a 14 year old a child anymore. People are now having sex at the age of 12. A 14 year old is a freshman in high school, so thats good enough for me.


There's such a thing as legal age of consent. At your age, it's not that big of a deal because both of you are minors but when one gets up into late teens, early 20s, that makes it statutory rape.

I know that kids these days are in a hurry to experience sex but few that young are emotionally ready to deal with it.



Inturmal said:


> Adolescents aren't children and don't need near as much protecting as little kids do.


True but neither are they adults. As a teen, I made a lot of mistakes and I wish, looking back that I would have listened to my parents a little more instead of doing some of the things that I ended up doing, including having sex too early in my life.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Ooops...I didnt realize Johnny1234 was only 16.


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

leppardess said:


> At your age, it's not that big of a deal because both of you are minors but when one gets up into late teens, early 20s, that makes it statutory rape.


Of course, it depends on where you live. 14 is legal in Canada, amongst other places. Close in age exceptions also allow one person to be above the AOC, and the other to be below, sometimes allowing for up to a 5 year age gap.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

Penny said:


> Ooops...I didnt realize Johnny1234 was only 16.


Me either

but still


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Im actually 17(and close to 18) lol. But, say I was 20, I would go as low as 15-16.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Johnny1234 said:


> Im actually 17(and close to 18) lol. But, say I was 20, I would go as low as 15-16.


 :sus

Go as low as 15 when one is 20??


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

I really don't understand what harm would come from a 20 y.o. and a 15 y.o. dating. Would it be any different from a 15 y.o. and another 15 y.o. dating? What happens if someone had to choose between a 20 y.o. guy that is a really good person who has never been in a relationship either, or a 15 yo who has been in 2 or 3 relationships before and dumped them shortly after having sex (and there are a bunch of other girls that like him too).


I know I was exactly the same when I was 15 yo and 20 yo. Well, I might have gained 20 lbs, and lived in a different state. I don't get how society would view me as normal if I had dated a girl my age. Most of the girls were dating guys 1-4 years older however. And those couples were fine with it, and didn't care about what other people said about the age difference. But if I would have even attempted to find a girl still in high school when I started college at 18, I felt they would have put me on some sexual predator list.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Penny said:


> Johnny1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Im actually 17(and close to 18) lol. But, say I was 20, I would go as low as 15-16.
> ...


Whats your point?


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## SilentProphet (Jun 1, 2007)

I guess some guys with SA would like dating younger females? probably make them feel more in control of their otherwise uncontrollable life. I think the thought of a 20 year old dating a 15 year old is pretty ****ing disgusting, And i guess so does most of the general public, or anybody who still has some morals. It's not the same as a grown and mature woman who is 25 dating a guy who is 30. I'll now be watching "how to catch a predator" for anybody using the "i have SA cop-out" :lol


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Johnny1234 said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > Johnny1234 said:
> ...


Ummm...that 15 is too young to be dating a 20 year old...and currently illegal.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Penny said:


> Johnny1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Penny said:
> ...


Ummm...that 15 is too young to be dating a 20 year old...and currently illegal.[/quote]

It's only illegal when you have sex...plus dont give me the morals lesson because its b.s. Anyone can do what they want. Im not saying ill go out looking for 15 year olds when im 20 im just saying it wouldnt bother me. Many girls in my school that are 16-17 are dating guys that are over 20. Its actually very normal.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

johnny1234 said:


> It's only illegal when you have sex...plus dont give me the morals lesson because its b.s. Anyone can do what they want.




I am not trying to give you any "morals" lesson...and no, everyone cannot do what they want...only to a certain extent...that is a lesson you will learn in time.


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## SilentProphet (Jun 1, 2007)

Johnny1234 said:


> I dont consider a 14 year old a child anymore. People are now having sex at the age of 12. A 14 year old is a freshman in high school, so thats good enough for me.


But you said you would date them and not have sex. So why did you post this? What does it matter if you just wanted to be friends?


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Penny said:


> johnny1234 said:
> 
> 
> > It's only illegal when you have sex...plus dont give me the morals lesson because its b.s. Anyone can do what they want.
> ...




Youre not the one who said about morals but anyways, just because you dont agree with this, doesnt mean that I have to listen.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

SilentProphet said:


> Johnny1234 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont consider a 14 year old a child anymore. People are now having sex at the age of 12. A 14 year old is a freshman in high school, so thats good enough for me.
> ...


I never said I wouldnt have sex, I just said that it's not illegal until you do it, and even then it's not a big deal. Plus, what if you never get to the sex part? She would be more then a friend, just not yet had sex with you.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Generally when someone quotes me and replies, I assume they are referring to me. People exchange ideas, thoughts, and opinions on message boards, not everyone is going to think like you or agree with you. Sorry, just the way it is.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Penny said:


> Generally when someone quotes me and replies, I assume they are referring to me. People exchange ideas, thoughts, and opinions on message boards, not everyone is going to think like you or agree with you. Sorry, just the way it is.


Maybe I said it the wrong way. Here is what I meant to say: Maybe you dont agree with a 20 year old dating a 15 year old, but it doesnt mean that I feel that way.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Threads like this make me extremely nervous about the general public.

Do I have to protect all of the kids? I would like to, since it looks as though common sense doesn't exist anymore.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Atticus said:


> If an adult is too socially undeveloped to date another adult, he or she has to wait until he or she develops sufficently to date another adult. Dating people we would consider children in almost any other context is contemptable. Age gaps like 20-14 and 23-16 have been mentioned in this thread, and they aren't OK.


Why not? One of my uncles met his wife when she was 16. He was in his mid-20s. They married as soon as she got out of high school. They lived a happy marriage and raised 3 kids to adulthood until her tragic death 5 years ago.

People are individuals. Just because a person is 16 years old doesn't mean he/she can't have adult-like maturity.

My dad is 12 years older than my mother. She had me when she was 21 (doing the math, he was 33 when I was born). Though they lasted only 4 years married, no guy my mom's age would have put up with her either.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

LostInReverie said:


> ...since it looks as though common sense doesn't exist anymore.


It must not have existed 60 or 70 years ago either. How did my Grandparents start dating in their teens and stay together for their entire lives? I have heard of some age differences where they would have been sent to prison nowadays instead of getting married.

There is a lot more to it than just saying that all 19 -20 year old guys can only date 17 year olds. Since 18,19 & 20 year old girls get hit on by the older guys (or at least they have a choice to date more successful older guys). And 15 & 16 year olds are too young for college age guys to date. That leaves a pretty slim selection of girls to date for guys from 18-22 (if they don't have a gf from high school)...

That being said, very few people dated when they were 15/16 in my hometown. And that was ok, but I don't see the difference in two 15 year olds dating versus a person a few years older. It depends on the intentions, maturity level, and what they expect out of the relationship.

I think it is the negative loser 20 y.o. guy that dropped out of high school that would be the one getting into these relationships just for sex that everyone has a problem with. Or the 20 y.o. guy that knows how to manipulate girls into giving him what he wants is the type people assume 'goes after' the young vunirable single giirls that look up to them and seem better than any of the guys that are 15y.o. And I agree that both of those two situations are wrong and shouldn't be allowed to happen. But it is the type of person, not their age that I have a problem with. It is probably true that a normal good 20 y.o. won't have anything in common with or a way to meet a 15 y.o., but how would their relationship be any different from what she would have dating another 15 or 16 y.o.? It's not like the 15 or 16 y.o. guy isn't going to have sex on the mind any less than the 20 y.o. The likelihood of success in making it work long-term isprobably just about the same.

I don't really know what I am talking about though, it is all a mess around those ages. And I am tired. :stu 
(And a somewhat on-topic remark is: They really need to teach kids how to be in stable healthy relationships in school. How to find them, how to get out of bad ones, what they are looking for in someone else, etc.)


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

If one's maturity level mirrors that of an adolescent, perhaps this person should also not be sexually active. Then maybe general society can cut down on the casual creation and termination of human life.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

LostInReverie said:


> If one's maturity level mirrors that of an adolescent, perhaps this person should also not be sexually active. Then maybe general society can cut down on the casual creation and termination of human life.


I can't disagree with you on that.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

PGVan said:


> Atticus said:
> 
> 
> > If an adult is too socially undeveloped to date another adult, he or she has to wait until he or she develops sufficently to date another adult. Dating people we would consider children in almost any other context is contemptable. Age gaps like 20-14 and 23-16 have been mentioned in this thread, and they aren't OK.
> ...


I don't expect to convince you, but here's my reasoning and my best effort.

Several people in this thread and other threads have stated that they are interested in younger females because they believe the dating/sexual experience and overall social development of a younger female is better matched to their dating/sexual experience and social development. That sounds a bit like the reasoning mental health professionals attribute to pedophiles when they try to understand their behavior.

Mid teen girls who are open to or who pursue older guys do it, in many cases, because they are acting out. They allow or seek these relationships precisely because they are frowned on. Girls who behave that way are often damaged psychologically from prior sexual abuse. This may cause her to ACT like she is well informed and mature for her age.

Even if the guy is socially awkward, his age implies to the girl that he is a man, that he is worldly, and that he can do things for her that a younger guy can't. True or not, that's what the girl will likely believe. This puts her at a disadvantage.

I firmly believe that these things are true in most relationships where the man is in his 20s and the girl is 16 or younger. I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions, but I think those prove the rule. I guess it comes down to how you want to define yourself.
Considering the likelihood that I'm right about these situations, or the majority of them, you might think about how much you want to flirt with this kind of predatory behavior. There are often consequences for all involved.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

Totally agreed with Atticus et al.

If you're an adult and "dating" a young teen, you're taking advantage, regardless. I can't believe some people here actually are up to the idea. It's ****ing wrong, and I sure hope we all realize that young teen girls are nowhere near emotionally mature enough to handle a situation like this.

I sincerely hope that this idea that dating young girls is acceptable isn't nearly as prevalent in the "normal" world. :um


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

I echo the sentiment of Atticus and Njodis. :yes


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Penny said:


> I echo the sentiment of Atticus and Njodis. :yes


 While there are always exceptions, I think the rule stands. At 20 or more years of age, you really have no business dating a young girl who is 16 years or less of age.....


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Penny said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > I echo the sentiment of Atticus and Njodis. :yes
> ...


Thats fine. Less then 16 would be kinda weird.

However, I have to say that not everyone likes younger girls because of their social development. Some like it because the younger girls are more innocent if that makes sense.


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

What is it with most guys 18-20 something(or even older :afr ) wanting the little 13, 14 & 15 year old kids anyway? I find it kinda weird. Is this why I have no luck in relationships? Most guys wanna be pedophiles or something? Seems that way...some of the guys I've dated have said I was the oldest girl they'd dated or something like that...seems like they always go for the girls under 18. I just find that strange.


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## davemason2k (Feb 11, 2005)

Maybe it's a Kentucky thing? :lol


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

Maybe it is...I already know guys who live around me are idiots though. :b


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## sean88 (Apr 29, 2006)

My first girlfriend was a year younger than me, and the girl I'm currently trying to get with is a few months younger than me. Nothing drastic. I probably wouldn't date anything under 17 years old, just because they're too unstable and don't really know what it is that they want. I don't have a problem with someone my age dating 15 year olds though, I think they know what they're doing.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

(shudders)


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

I'd date an 18 year old. And I doubt that number will ever go up as I get older. :lol


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

:dd


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## Your Lover Scrub Ducky (Jul 26, 2004)

I had a girlfriend who was 16.. But I was 17 at the time. :b 


lol that reminds me. Her mom thought I was lying about being 17. She thought I was 19 or 20. Then I showed her my license or permit, whatever it was and proved my age was 17. Hah! Her mom was cool though, she liked me and approved of me once she got to know me.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Before I go on, I will make it clear that I am not talking about dating children. Far from it. The average 16 year-old (and up) is capable of making his/her own decisions. A 16 year-old is not a child. I have also clearly stated that I would date a girl as young as 16 years old if she was mature enough for me, and that is something only I can judge for myself.



Atticus said:


> Several people in this thread and other threads have stated that they are interested in younger females because they believe the dating/sexual experience and overall social development of a younger female is better matched to their dating/sexual experience and social development. That sounds a bit like the reasoning mental health professionals attribute to pedophiles when they try to understand their behavior.


When you're talking about dating a 16 year-old, you're not talking about pedophilia. A 16 year-old is not a child, physically or mentally. 16 year-olds in high school are being prepared for adult life... post-secondary education, getting jobs, careers, etc. They are not getting ready for their next field trip to the ****ing zoo.

I have clearly stated that a 16 year-old would have to be amazingly mature for her age for me to want to date her. Given how my uncle led a successful marriage and family life with my late aunt proves that they exist. Girls like that are not your typical 16 year-old.



Atticus said:


> Mid teen girls who are open to or who pursue older guys do it, in many cases, because they are acting out. They allow or seek these relationships precisely because they are frowned on. Girls who behave that way are often damaged psychologically from prior sexual abuse. This may cause her to ACT like she is well informed and mature for her age.


I don't believe you can act that mature. It's kind of like how I don't believe you can act confident. You either are or you aren't.

I also don't agree with your theory that girls want older guys only because the relationships are frowned upon. If that was the case, 9 out of 10 young adult relationships are built on false pretenses.



Atticus said:


> Even if the guy is socially awkward, his age implies to the girl that he is a man, that he is worldly, and that he can do things for her that a younger guy can't. True or not, that's what the girl will likely believe. This puts her at a disadvantage.


In general (you like to speak generally on this topic), it is true that a guy in his early to mid 20s can offer a girl much more than a younger guy. I fail to see how that puts her at a disadvantage. Not all guys dating younger girls are sexual predators, meaning not all of what the older guys have to offer relates to sex.



Atticus said:


> I firmly believe that these things are true in most relationships where the man is in his 20s and the girl is 16 or younger. I'm open to the possibility that there are exceptions, but I think those prove the rule. I guess it comes down to how you want to define yourself.


The fact that there is apparently a "rule" on these relationships disturbs me. If there is a girl 3-7 years younger than me who is mature enough to be with me, I have two words for any single person who would judge our relationship based on age.

It really gets under my skin when I see so much judgment passed solely on age. It's one thing if you know one of the involved personally and know what is going on. It is another story if you don't know the involved personally. You really have no right to judge in that case.



Atticus said:


> Considering the likelihood that I'm right about these situations, or the majority of them, you might think about how much you want to flirt with this kind of *predatory behavior*. There are often consequences for all involved.


You really are quick to judge. If I was any kind of a predator, do you think I would be a 23 year-old who has never so much as held a girl's hand, and couldn't get into a relationship if it slapped me in the face? I am insulted.


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## GraceLikeRain (Nov 9, 2003)

PGVan said:


> The average 16 year-old (and up) is capable of making his/her own decisions. A 16 year-old is not a child.


Yeah, they make a lot of _stupid_ decisions, even "mature" ones, because they are 16!! They do not have enough life experience at that age and shouldn't be dating older guys. Just my opinion.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Sorry PG, I have to disagree strongly that the "average 16 year old is capable of making his/her own decisions" and I am sure I will get some static for saying that given the overall younger ages of many members of this board. Decision making is truly a skill honed over time. Plenty of 16 year olds make decisions that they find were not in their best interest later on. That is why 16 is UNDER THE AGE OF CONSENT. You are 23 you say....16 is what is termed as JAILBAIT...there is a reason for that name. Now, I did read the part about you not having dated but your are clearly saying that you WOULD date someone who was 16.

As for your family reference, lets not pretend that marriage has a good chance of working out when one of the parties marrying is only 16. We can all summon up some story of someone we knew or once knew or are related to who is the exception but I promise you marraige that young tends to be a big mistake that is usually corrected by divorce later on.

I dont have a problem with age per se, my husband is older than me. However, when I met my husband, I was in my early 30s, had a teenage son, and had already been married/divorced. _*Age isnt really an issue when both parties are mature adults, with life experience under their belt, both making informed decisions about their lives. The problem I have with this whole thing is someone in their early/late 20s seeking a girl that is 16 or (shudders) even younger.*_

Please dont try and sell anyone on the point that a 16 year old girl is a mature adult that just isnt so. While she may very well be on her way to being a mature, smart woman, she is not even an adult yet,. How much life experience can one have at 16??


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Penny said:


> That is why 16 is UNDER THE AGE OF CONSENT. You are 23 you say....16 is what is termed as JAILBAIT...there is a reason for that name. Now, I did read the part about you not having dated but your are clearly saying that you WOULD date someone who was 16.


Age of consent in Canada is 14.

I would date a 16 year-old girl if she was mature enough for me after getting to know her. I don't see what is wrong with it. Don't act like it isn't possible to a 16 year-old to be that mature. I almost had the chance to move away to play hockey when I was 15. Unfortunately it didn't work out because my skills weren't good enough in the end, but I was plenty mature enough to live with people I didn't know in a strange city.



Penny said:


> As for your family reference, lets not pretend that marriage has a good chance of working out when one of the parties marrying is only 16. We can all summon up some story of someone we knew or once knew or are related to who is the exception but I promise you marraige that young tends to be a big mistake that is usually corrected by divorce later on.


She was 18 when they got married. They met when she was 16. Just because it is seen as the exception does not make it impossible. That's the part that is pissing me off so much on the issue. If I were to meet a younger girl and we were to love each other enough to eventually get married, I know that the average person would look at us and write us off without thinking about it.



Penny said:


> _*Age isnt really an issue when both parties are mature adults, with life experience under their belt, both making informed decisions about their lives. The problem I have with this whole thing is someone in their early/late 20s seeking a girl that is 16 or (shudders) even younger.*_


I never said I would actively seek a 16 year-old girl just because she's 16. If I were to meet a girl that young who made a good enough impression on me, I would have to consider it. Also, keep in mind that in this day and age, often enough you can't tell if a girl is 16 or 26.



Penny said:


> Please dont try and sell anyone on the point that a 16 year old girl is a mature adult that just isnt so. While she may very well be on her way to being a mature, smart woman, she is not even an adult yet,. How much life experience can one have at 16??


What kind of life experience? I'm 23, and other than working full time, I don't have any "life experience". And just because my "life experience" is comparable to that of a 16 year-old does not make me a pedophile. I still can't believe that word was used in this thread.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

PGVan said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > That is why 16 is UNDER THE AGE OF CONSENT. You are 23 you say....16 is what is termed as JAILBAIT...there is a reason for that name. Now, I did read the part about you not having dated but your are clearly saying that you WOULD date someone who was 16.
> ...


 I didnt know the age of consent in Canada was 14, I am an American, therefore my knowledge of Canadian law is admittedly less than what yours would be. So in Canada, does "age of consent" mean you can vote in elections, sign contracts, fight in a war etc as the age of 18 does here in the states? Or do you mean "age of consent" as not needing permission to marry, as that age varies greatly in the US by what state you live in.



PGVan said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > As for your family reference, lets not pretend that marriage has a good chance of working out when one of the parties marrying is only 16. We can all summon up some story of someone we knew or once knew or are related to who is the exception but I promise you marriage that young tends to be a big mistake that is usually corrected by divorce later on.
> ...


No one is saying that it is "impossible" but rather is the exception not the rule. Marraige at a young age has a high divorce rate, lets not pretend that it doesnt. I personally married at 18 and by 22 we had pretty much grown in different directions. Why? Because the person you are at 17 (when we met) vs. the person you are at 22 can be quite different (was in my case, but then again we had a kid so that kind of expedited things). The divorce rate is rather high under the best of circumstance but even higher when one is of a young age.



PGVan said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > _*Age isnt really an issue when both parties are mature adults, with life experience under their belt, both making informed decisions about their lives. The problem I have with this whole thing is someone in their early/late 20s seeking a girl that is 16 or (shudders) even younger.*_
> ...


Really? You cannot tell the difference between a 26 year old and a 16 year old?? I can. Very much so. I think most people can.



PGVan said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > Please dont try and sell anyone on the point that a 16 year old girl is a mature adult that just isnt so. While she may very well be on her way to being a mature, smart woman, she is not even an adult yet,. How much life experience can one have at 16??
> ...


 I personally didnt use the word pedophile but I dont think you are being fair to the person that did, and my line of thinking is not veering very far from theirs to be quite frank. It was not about calling anyone a pedophile, but rather reasoning behind it. I beleive you are reading that part wrong. No one is saying that about you personally at all. One gains life experience not just through relationships, but rather experencing life, exactly as it sounds, the trials and tribulations and things you go through in life through time, and what you learn from that.

Sixteen is very young, how can anyone argue that point? I just dont get that. But, I remember being 16 and thinking that I was on top of my game, finally an older teen...etc... But in reality you really begin to learn about life when you admit you really dont know **** and then you really ready to learn.....I still can learn volumes about life, and I am 38 pushing 39 really quick....life is all about learning. One cannot expect a 16 year old to have the same decision making and life experience as someone in their mid twenties. My opinion and I stand behind it.


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

Penny said:


> That is why 16 is UNDER THE AGE OF CONSENT. ....16 is what is termed as JAILBAIT...


Not everywhere. There's many states and countries where 16 is the AOC, or 14 (Canada). Therefore, 16 is not necessarily jailbait.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Inturmal said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > That is why 16 is UNDER THE AGE OF CONSENT. ....16 is what is termed as JAILBAIT...
> ...


Ummmm..yeah..I think I said in my last post that I was unaware of 14 being the age of consent in Canada...


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

Don't you live in Colorado, Penny? The AOC is 17 there, and apparently there's an exception that allows 15 and 16 yr olds to date/have sex with someone nearly 10 years older than themselves.

I'm just saying.. the law is not cut and dried, and it's never a good gauge to determine maturity anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co ... a#Colorado


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

SilentProphet said:


> I guess some guys with SA would like dating younger females? probably make them feel more in control of their otherwise uncontrollable life. I think the thought of a 20 year old dating a 15 year old is pretty ****ing disgusting, And i guess so does most of the general public, or anybody who still has some morals. It's not the same as a grown and mature woman who is 25 dating a guy who is 30. I'll now be watching "how to catch a predator" for anybody using the "i have SA cop-out" :lol


NO JOKE. I am becoming increasingly more disturbed.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

PGVan,

My comment about girls finding older guys interesting because those relationships are frowned on pertained specifically to 20-14 or 23-16 kinds of gaps. Almost all adults who aren't currently running meth labs and therefore distracted would frown on that type of relationship. Everything that adults frown on increases in value for adolescents.

Look at the downside to our different perspectives on this. If you're right and I'm just over cautious, but you and other guys your age listen to me, all that happens is that you pass on the opportunity to have a relationship with a younger female. You'll find someone older, she'll find someone younger, and there's no harm done.

But let's say I'm right, and you guys don't listen to me. Instead, you get involved with someone who is interested in you because of what you represent, as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. And if I'm right, the end she has in mind is probably pretty self destructive, and you're participating in the harm that comes to her.

As for me being judgemental, you throw that out there like its a disorder. I have an interest in my children's welfare, and the welfare of their friends, classmates, and so on. That's my business. 

This has evolved into a discussion about what sort of standards we ought to have as a society. I've made my case, and in doing so, I've made it clear I think what you're defending is wrong and potentially dangerous. As for you being insulted, I've made every effort to avoid saying what I'd like to. If being insulted by me matters to you, then know you've gotten off light. Very light.


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## Volume (Apr 8, 2007)

I would go as low as 17 right now, but for sex, not a long-term thing, unless she was really special.


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## sctork (Oct 23, 2006)

LostInReverie said:


> SilentProphet said:
> 
> 
> > I guess some guys with SA would like dating younger females? probably make them feel more in control of their otherwise uncontrollable life. I think the thought of a 20 year old dating a 15 year old is pretty ****ing disgusting, And i guess so does most of the general public, or anybody who still has some morals. It's not the same as a grown and mature woman who is 25 dating a guy who is 30. I'll now be watching "how to catch a predator" for anybody using the "i have SA cop-out" :lol
> ...


 :ditto


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

So, PGVan, if you had a 16 year old daughter, you'd be perfectly fine with her having a 24 year old boyfriend?

Even if you say yes, I can almost guarantee that you wouldn't if you were actually in that situation.


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## AdamCanada (Dec 6, 2003)

Penny said:


> I didnt know the age of consent in Canada was 14, I am an American, therefore my knowledge of Canadian law is admittedly less than what yours would be. So in Canada, does "age of consent" mean you can vote in elections, sign contracts, fight in a war etc as the age of 18 does here in the states? Or do you mean "age of consent" as not needing permission to marry, as that age varies greatly in the US by what state you live in.


I think that means sex between a 14 and 14/15 year old is okay. I hope that doesn't mean an 18+ year old can have sex with a 14 year old legally. If it does somthing needs to change here.


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

AdamCanada said:


> I think that means sex between a 14 and 14/15 year old is okay. I hope that doesn't mean an 18+ year old can have sex with a 14 year old legally. If it does somthing needs to change here.


The AOC is 14, meaning that a 14 yr old could legally consent to sex with a 50 yr old if they wanted to. But that's not likely to happen, since most teens (and people in general) prefer others in their own age group.

I remember being 14 and wanting to bang my milf neighbor. I was born when she graduated high school. Man, that would have been nice. :mushy


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## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

Inturmal said:


> AdamCanada said:
> 
> 
> > I think that means sex between a 14 and 14/15 year old is okay. I hope that doesn't mean an 18+ year old can have sex with a 14 year old legally. If it does somthing needs to change here.
> ...


How many 50 yr old men are moving to canada, raise your hands!


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Inturmal said:


> AdamCanada said:
> 
> 
> > I think that means sex between a 14 and 14/15 year old is okay. I hope that doesn't mean an 18+ year old can have sex with a 14 year old legally. If it does somthing needs to change here.
> ...


Wrong Inturmal, AdamCanada has it right. A new bill passed in 2005 that made provisions to the AOC, and this age difference provision seemed to be on the books already.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/dept/clp/fa ... artcontent

Not that it matters. I didnt mean to get into this thread and turn it into a debate on Canadian law. That wasnt the point at all.


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

It's still a gray-area though, based on a number of factors. Otherwise, the law would specifically state that no one older than 18 can have sex with someone under 18. Maybe the 14yr+50yr combo wouldn't fly, but I'd bet that 16 and 25 could, depending on the circumstances.

Anyway, yeah, all this law talk is boring. 

The point is, people have different maturity levels. It just depends on who they are, and the law (usually) recognizes that fact. At least Canada is smarter about it. In some U.S. states, 18 is the hard cutoff. So, if a 18 yr old has sex with her 17.5 yr old bf, she automatically broke the law and could easily be labeled a sex offender. The smarter states set the age to 16 with close in age exceptions.



Penny said:


> I didnt mean to get into this thread and turn it into a debate on Canadian law. That wasnt the point at all.


If you didn't want to talk about law, then you shouldn't have brought up the AOC, and labeled 16 yr olds as JAILBAIT.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Atticus said:


> This has evolved into a discussion about what sort of standards we ought to have as a society. I've made my case, and in doing so, I've made it clear I think what you're defending is wrong and potentially dangerous. As for you being insulted, I've made every effort to avoid saying what I'd like to. If being insulted by me matters to you, then know you've gotten off light. Very light.


You've referred to pedophilia and predatory behaviour to describe me after I stated I would date a very exceptional 16 year-old. You have basically called me a sexual predator only because I am 23 years old. Apparently now I gotta be running a meth lab since I don't frown upon all such relationships. That's not exactly choosing your words lightly.

The fact is that you don't know me. Saying such things about somebody without knowing the truth is flat-out defamation.



njodis said:


> So, PGVan, if you had a 16 year old daughter, you'd be perfectly fine with her having a 24 year old boyfriend?
> 
> Even if you say yes, I can almost guarantee that you wouldn't if you were actually in that situation.


Why should I answer since there is a 100% chance that you would only accept one answer?


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Inturmal said:


> It's still a gray-area though, based on a number of factors. Otherwise, the law would specifically state that no one older than 18 can have sex with someone under 18. Maybe the 14yr+50yr combo wouldn't fly, but I'd bet that 16 and 25 could, depending on the circumstances.
> 
> Anyway, yeah, all this law talk is boring.
> 
> ...


You are veering away from the point Inturmal, which is hardly out of character for you. You know, if you actually read the posts, that I didnt realize we were speaking of Canadian law. Quit splitting hairs.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

I was somewhat surprised to see this statement from the Canadian Justice department Q&As link. "The Canadian Youth, Sexual Health and HIV/AIDS Study 2003 report by the Canadian Council of Ministers of Education reported that the average age of first sexual intercourse was *14.1 years for boys and 14.5 years for girls*."

If that is the average age, one can only imagine how young some of them are starting.

When I was 18, I began dating a very mature 13 yr. old girl. However, I was a virgin and had no thoughts of intercourse although reflecting back on it now, she probably did. She informed me that she lost her virginity soon after we begin seeing others(ours was a long distance relationship).

In my opinion, it is probably the best policy to date others approximately our age in our younger years.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

Random fact.. When I was a high school senior, this girl in one of my classes was dating a guy in his 30's. I believe she was 18 at the time, or near it. The teacher knew. From what I know, there was never any problem and her parents didn't mind.

I think dating younger girls is kind of creepy, but at the same time it doesn't make sense that girls that are 18-19 go out with guys in their 20's-30's and older and that's okay. I'm not really sure what "maturity" means here, either. I get confused when they say that about younger girls dating older guys, too. "Girls are more mature". None of it makes sense to me. Does that mean I'm supposed to be dating younger? ..not that I date.

I frown at dating younger, as in 5-6, at least when a guy is in his 20's, because of things I've seen in the past few years. I can't say it would be the same for everyone. I guess I just feel I relate more to girls closer to my age. I'm 25... a girl that is finishing or just out of high school doesn't sound like anything I can relate to. It's why I use to get to pissed off being forced to hang out with younger people years ago. I don't want to be surrounded by the "I'm 18, this is the beginning" people. I hated 18-year-olds when I was 18. F--- that.


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## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: re: Have you tried dating a younger woman?*



Johnny1234 said:


> Well, women are generally more mature then men, so a younger one would be on your level if that makes sense. I think that within 5 years it is reasonable.


This is no longer true in my opinion. An 18 year old girl is just as unsure as any 18 year old guy of what she truly wants or what she is truly seeking. I think what it comes down to is society in the past decided what a young woman's future would be. There was societal pressure to take a particular path. With the move towards equality women are now being given more options for what they want their future to hold. In turn they exercise these freedoms trying to determine what they want; what makes them happy. This requires exploring.


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## opivy22 (Mar 1, 2005)

Its been a while, but I want to say in sociology class we were told in the US the average age between husband and wife is like 6 years.


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## salty (Mar 21, 2006)

i'm 22 and my girlfriend is 20, so yes, i have tried dating a younger woman. it's cool.

i don't know about telling the difference between a girl 16 years old and 26 years old, but for me it's pretty damn hard to tell a girls age between around 16 and 20 - they all pretty much look the same nowadays. This could be a problem because half of that age difference is jailbait *here*, but you probably won't find out a person's age until after you've gotten to know them at least somewhat, and by then you may already have the chemistry going, so i personally can't frown on people in, for instance, a 17-23 relationship (and i don't even run a meth lab!). if i had a 17 year old daughter who was dating a 23 year old guy i'd probably allow it (if i denied her she'd probably just want it more and go behind my back), but i'd be watching very closely, and if the guy seemed sleazy in any way he'd be gone quick.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

I've never had a difficult time determining a girl's age. The older I get, the younger these teenagers look... which I guess is natural (even though I still look like a teenager)

Sorry, random comment.


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## Dudleyville (Mar 25, 2007)

I would never date a woman who's not even old enough to be able to buy lottery tickets.


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## srj985 (Aug 21, 2007)

so based on a few people's mind-set on here, what is all the hoopla about all those female teachers having sex (and children) with 14 year old boys? does it sound more wrong for a 30+ woman to date a 'mature' 14 year old?


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