# #MGTOW - Have you ever considered abandoning society and going your own way?



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

----

More:

*Man living in the Sierra Nevadas:*


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## Cheesecake (Feb 2, 2007)

I don't have the skills necessary to be able to do that.


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## EmptyEyes (Aug 25, 2014)

All these MRA/PUA/PUAhater/MGTOW groups are all the same - little boys in men's bodies who are afraid of women.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Sure, but I'm a woman. So mgtow doesn't work as a label at all. And most mgtow's I've come across online are more interested in getting away from women, than society as a whole.

I don't see that as being synonymous.

I won't lie though saying '**** all men I'm going to live in the woods.' Has a certain appeal to it.

But I still care about my dad, brother, best friend and some other guys. So I can't be like **** _all _ men I guess. And then on the flipside many women are annoying. So what can you do?


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Sure, I'll live like Thoreau.


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

I've considered dropping out of mainstream society, and I respect this guy's lifestyle. But that isn't what MGTOW generally means.


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## SA go0n (Mar 5, 2014)

Mgtow is just straight dudes who wont get involved with women. It has nothing to do with living off the grid.


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

Oooh nice OP (I always wanted to ask some questions directly to some of the MGTOWs on this forum. Maybe we should make a group 8)

Not really. As long as you are self aware you can work and function perfectly within society (you would however, make a few different choices from the average joe). Having said that I respect any Mgtows that go the exit society path if that is what they want.



persona non grata said:


> But that isn't what MGTOW generally means.


I seen this mentioned/written in some of the early mgtow stuff but I'm glad the concept has evolve beyond being defined by your zip code (or if you really exit society, latitude and longitude)


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I would genuinely like to live off grid though.



extremly said:


> Oooh nice OP (I always wanted to ask some questions directly to some of the MGTOWs on this forum. Maybe we should make a group 8)


I don't think the OP can count, he has a girlfriend...


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I don't think the OP can count, he has a girlfriend...


Mgtow philosophy is not anti relationships, anti women or anti intercourse.

#MGTOWcultureshock


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

extremly said:


> Mgtow philosophy is not anti relationships, anti women or anti intercourse.
> 
> #Mgtowcultureshock


Yet everything people post on this forum, and you can find after a quick look around say on YouTube is people strongly being against dating women. They believe that society is strongly biased towards women, and that women in general are part of some kind of hivemind-like entity that is out to get them. Sleeping with them is fine though, from what I've seen.

You could also say that feminism is, in principle, about equal rights for men and women. But there's more going on then that. Just like there's more going on with mgtow.

I just found this by googling now, and I have to say. It's the first time I've read this but it echoes everything I've seen so far and material that self proclaimed mgtow's link to:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

I don't know what's more amusing, the poorly veiled attempt to promote such an empty "ideology" or the retarded use of hastags on an forum to try to do so.


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## EmptyEyes (Aug 25, 2014)

@arnie @extremly @Persephone The Dread

http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forums/mgtow-general-discussion.2/
Here is what MGTOW talk about

Desperate and empowered ***** from Modamily wants Argien's sperm.
My **** girlfriend!
Hi-Tech Bra that only comes off during VAGina Tingles (Yes its real)
Riding the cock carousel pays off
From zero to hero: A modern girl's guide to why most men will never be The One

So...they sure do talk about women a lot. Actually, these thread titles look a lot similar to what you see in puahate and it's new location.


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## Cheesecake (Feb 2, 2007)

I never know what this Tweeter stuff is. I'm always out of the loop.

Thought it was about going out into the wild and living off the land or something.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

EmptyEyes said:


> @arnie @extremly @Persephone The Dread
> 
> http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forums/mgtow-general-discussion.2/
> Here is what MGTOW talk about
> ...


it's almost pathetic, their whole forum is basically just whinging about women. Going their own way my ***.


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Yet everything people post on this forum, and you can find after a quick look around say on YouTube is people strongly being against dating women.


These people at best represent themselves and their own opinions. Mgtow is not a political movement. Is a philosophy (ever evolving I should add) first and foremost.



Persephone The Dread said:


> They believe that society is strongly biased towards women, and that women in general are part of some kind of hivemind-like entity that is out to get them.


If "They believe society is strongly biased towards women" is your criteria to believe MGTOW is anti women you might also have to be fine with religion nuts thinking that scientist that say "god did not create the earth in 6,000 years" are intolerant and xenophobes according to them.



Persephone The Dread said:


> You could also say that feminism is, in principle, about equal rights for men and women. But there's more going on then that. Just like there's more going on with mgtow.


The difference is MGTOW is not a six decade long political movement that has to answer for it's effects on the world. A concept doesn't need to save face. A decentralized ideology just is what it is.



Persephone The Dread said:


> I just found this by googling now, and I have to say. It's the first time I've read this but it echoes everything I've seen so far and material that self proclaimed mgtow's link to:
> 
> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way


Also from Rationalwiki:

Entry On Amazing Atheist

Entry On Wikipedia

The way they write is very unprofessional (and sometimes outright sarcastic) I wouldn't expect this site to give a balanced unbiased description of anything.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

extremly said:


> Also from Rationalwiki:
> 
> Entry On Amazing Atheist
> 
> ...


That is not my only criteria for believing many of them are anti women. Not by a long shot. That scrapes the surface of many of these men's issues with women.

I don't use that site (rationalwiki), it was just something that came up while googling. I found their take on mgtow specifically to be amusingly accurate based on what I've found myself.

I don't doubt that somewhere, there is a guy who nobly believes in self sufficiency and respects women without sexism, being really annoyed with the women in his life, or general misogyny underlying his motives. He's just hiding really hard behind all that bull****. Probably because he doesn't feel the need to rant constantly.


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

@*extremly*

What does MGTOW mean then? It almost sounds like a label in search of a concept to represent.

People online might only speak for themselves, but if I'm not defining it by the people who identify with the label, I don't have a definition for it.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

extremly said:


> *These people at best represent themselves and their own opinions.* Mgtow is not a political movement. Is a philosophy (ever evolving I should add) first and foremost.
> 
> The difference is MGTOW is not a six decade long political movement that has to answer for it's effects on the world. A concept doesn't need to save face. A decentralized ideology just is what it is.


But you want it and other malecentric ideologies to gain more traction, I know you do. So in that case, they'll have as much to answer for as feminism. You can't just be like 'oh well - fringe group, anything goes.' If you want it to be taken seriously.


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

persona non grata said:


> @*extremly*
> 
> What does MGTOW mean then? It almost sounds like a label in search of a concept to represent.
> 
> People online might only speak for themselves, but if I'm not defining it by the people who identify with the label, I don't have a definition for it.


I think we would both be lying to ourselves if we pretended you cared what it meant. Go with your gut on this one lol. It means whatever you think it means based on your extensive research


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

extremly said:


> I think we would both be lying to ourselves if we pretended you cared what it meant. Go with your gut on this one lol. It means whatever you think it means based on your extensive research


What's funny is that in spite of your spirited defense of MGTOW, _you_ don't seem to care what it means. You just emphasize that it's an 'evolving philosophy', which is your way of saying 'it doesn't stand for anything today, but I hope it will tomorrow'.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

EmptyEyes said:


> @arnie @extremly @Persephone The Dread
> 
> http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forums/mgtow-general-discussion.2/
> Here is what MGTOW talk about...


Every movement has extremists. Should we judge Feminism by the crazy femen group running around topless in eastern europe or SCUM which advocates "cutting up men" ?


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

arnie said:


> Every movement has extremists. Should we judge Feminism by the crazy femen group running around topless in eastern europe or SCUM which advocates "cutting up men" ?


What beliefs define a moderate member of this movement?


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## EmptyEyes (Aug 25, 2014)

arnie said:


> Every movement has extremists. Should we judge Feminism by the crazy femen group running around topless in eastern europe or SCUM which advocates "cutting up men" ?


Oh of course, "don't judge MGTOW by every single MGTOW website on the internet, judge them by the hidden groups of MGTOW that you never heard of and I won't link to but trust me, they're not like the other 99%."


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## Lonelyguy (Nov 8, 2003)

I'd love to go off the grid and vanish from society. Not possible right now though.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

EmptyEyes said:


> Oh of course, "don't judge MGTOW by every single MGTOW website on the internet, judge them by the hidden groups of MGTOW that you never heard of and I won't link to but trust me, they're not like the other 99%."


MGTOW is an ideology of self ownership, self determination and living without societal expectations, just like atheism is an ideology of living without a God.

What individuals say in an online forum isn't my concern.


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## EmptyEyes (Aug 25, 2014)

arnie said:


> MGTOW is an ideology of self ownership, self determination and living without societal expectations, just like atheism is an ideology of living without a God.
> 
> What individuals say in an online forum isn't my concern.


Well you dodged my question so I'll try again being as blunt as possible.

If you want to talk about MGTOW related things with other like minded people, where would you go? Link to it.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

mezzoforte said:


> Sure, I'll live like Thoreau.


He built a cabin in the forests of Massachusetts. Not too far from Boston... :lol


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I don't think, if you like girls, you can stop being attracted to them.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Meh, do what you like. :stu Women are better off not coming in contact with people who view them as a blot on society anyway. They're just making it easier for everyone involved by removing themselves from the pool of eligible men.


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## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

It looks nice, being able to live a life like that in the video, just doing your own thing away from society. But I'd never be able to do it. I'd either get bored, lonely, or most likely die from nature. Also, I'd never want to be under the same banner as what a whole bunch of men who just complain about women are. Lol'd at the MGTOW forums.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

EmptyEyes said:


> All these MRA/PUA/PUAhater/MGTOW groups are all the same - little boys in men's bodies who are afraid of women.


Guys, I think we've found our Gwyn replacement.


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> But you want it and other malecentric ideologies to gain more traction, I know you do. So in that case, they'll have as much to answer for as feminism. You can't just be like 'oh well - fringe group, anything goes.' If you want it to be taken seriously.


You are actually dead wrong on this assertion. This is not an MRA organization. MGTOW does not need to recruit anyone or use it's PR department to appeal to anyone. This is an ideology/philosophy at an individual level, that makes up a collective, which is why is growing so fast ironically :yes



gunner21 said:


> Guys, I think we've found our Gwyn replacement.


How come that once a user gets banned they can't come forward and admit who they are lol? is it against the rules?



persona non grata said:


> What's funny is that in spite of your spirited defense of MGTOW, _you_ don't seem to care what it means.


Is not that I don't care what it means. I don't care what _you_ think it means. It wasn't a spirited defense as more of an open invitation to be honest with yourself and go with your gut feeling on this one as to what you think mgtow means (be it good or bad. Most mgtows here or anywhere could careless. We are not mras :yes).

I usually try to take a side on discussions and I'm usually gladly explaining myself but in this case I feel explaining what a whole philosophy is or is not (without grossly simplifying) would put me more in the role of a teacher than just another forum member. and I don't like teaching :b


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

EmptyEyes said:


> @*arnie* @*extremly* @*Persephone The Dread*
> 
> http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/forums/mgtow-general-discussion.2/
> Here is what MGTOW talk about
> ...


WHEW! I thought it was dirty!


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

This guy is a pretty good example of a MGTOW. He's principled and seeks self improvement over blind consumerism - and yes he does have a girlfriend. MGTOW does not mean you stop seeing all women in your life. :b






There's also this guy who's a MGTOW for mainly spiritual reasons. But the thing they all have in common is self improvement which you have to respect:


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

First time hearing about MGTOW. Had no idea what it was. Why can't it be PGTOW? Or does a woman just become the crazy cat lady? 

I could do it and there's a third world country that I could because I can somewhat speak its language. At least enough to get by. My reason wouldn't be anti-women or anything like that. It'd be for anti-consumerism, anti-taxes, anti-Government, anti-overspending for goods, etc.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Not enough skills


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Paper Samurai said:


> This guy is a pretty good example of a MGTOW. He's principled and seeks self improvement over blind consumerism - and *yes he does have a girlfriend.* MGTOW does not mean you stop seeing all women in your life. :b


So he has a girlfriend, yet believes stuff like this?
http://www.mgtow.com/dont-argue-with-women/

An interesting exercept:

_ Women are not after finding the correct answer, but rather they are after manipulating others into feeling they are right and their opponent is wrong. In other words, they are socially manipulating their opponent when they argue, rather than seeking the actual, objective truth.

I think one of the absolute best things men can do with women is follow the advice of so many of those "misogynists" of old, and view women as children. "A woman is the most responsible teenager in the house."_

Okay... :afr I'm so thankful for the boyfriend I have.


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## EmptyEyes (Aug 25, 2014)

mezzoforte said:


> So he has a girlfriend, yet believes stuff like this?
> http://www.mgtow.com/dont-argue-with-women/
> 
> An interesting exercept:
> ...


I think it's interesting how contradictory that page is, you know, coming from these logical truth seeking men :roll

Women believe what the herd believes and are passive, but, women argue to prove they're right and manipulate you to agree with them....um, which is it? How are we both followers waiting to be told what to believe but at the same time deciding things and trying to tell others what to believe?


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

mezzoforte said:


> So he has a girlfriend, yet believes stuff like this?
> http://www.mgtow.com/dont-argue-with-women/
> 
> Okay... :afr I'm so thankful for the boyfriend I have.


You got to understand though MGTOW is simply the rejection of marriage and kids - the conventional way of life for men. That's the only thing the movement basically states. It's the only thing that all people who follow it have in common. There is no central planning, no leaders and no large book of rules to follow.

Yeah, some people who identify with MGTOW are quite bitter - with some having a good reason to be (messy divorce) while others are just a bit paranoid I guess. But that's just the nature of the beast, not everyone who decides to follow it will do so for the right reasons. But as I said, they don't represent everyone else. A similar analogy is when a criminal's favourite colour is blue - does that make everyone who likes blue a criminal? :b


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## midnightson (Nov 6, 2013)

The **** is MGTOW?


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Paper Samurai said:


> You got to understand though MGTOW is simply the rejection of marriage and kids - the conventional way of life for men. That's the only thing the movement basically states. It's the only thing that all people who follow it have in common. There is no central planning, no leaders and no large book of rules to follow.
> 
> Yeah, some people who identify with MGTOW are quite bitter - with some having a good reason to be (messy divorce) while others are just a bit paranoid I guess. But that's just the nature of the beast, not everyone who decides to follow it will do so for the right reasons. But as I said, they don't represent everyone else. A similar analogy is when a criminal's favourite colour is blue - does that make everyone who likes blue a criminal? :b


Oh okay. I just assumed that that was an official website that would state the ideals that men part of this movement would follow. It seems like MGTOW can be compared to feminism, in that in both movements there are misogynists and misandrists, but I guess there are also some rational people out there too. I have no problem with men rejecting marriage and standing up for men's rights, like the guy you posted. But there's so much generalizing and belittling in most MGTOW youtube videos or forum/blog posts and the fact that so many men are starting to support the bitter ideas, rather than the harmless, original concept of MGTOW is a little disconcerting. It's not a huge deal though I guess, as long as no one's getting hurt...It's kind of like the "feminists" who run around the internet bashing men. :b


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## Dre12 (Jul 25, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> So what can you do?


Live in the woods with equal measures of hate and love for both sexes?

Personally I would like to say goodbye to society and live amongst nature. Where your days consist of hard work that results only in the obtaining of sustenance. I think that it would be wonderfully humbling and liberating experience.

It wouldn't be because I hate men or women, or indeed society, just because it isn't working out between us.


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## BillDauterive (Oct 24, 2012)

I can understand the men who avoid women and relationships as well as those wanting to go off the grid. 

At least for going off the grid, that would be incredibly difficult for me, being so attached to technology in my life with videogames, internet, Netflix, smartphone, etc. Giving up women and relationships would be far easier since I've literally had no female experience, lol. But what I really want to do is to rid myself of the desire for sex, intimacy, a relationship, etc and be aloof of it all, rather than these unfulfilled needs nagging and tearing at me.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Wierd abbreviations with a hashtag(that I despise) in front, are appearing on this forum. I have no clue what they are standing for, but I am guessing something made up these days by people with too much spare time on their hands and not something smart.

''Abandoning society'' is something I can understand and it's in proper English.

I would only abandon it in order to create my own society, where everything would gravitate around me(in plain words, a ''cult''). I would have people adore me, bow in front of my greatness, act like my own slaves, make me rich and women would feel privileged to comfort me...Boy, oh boy! My own ''society'' would be awesome...for me.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

reminds me of the unabomber


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

MobiusX said:


> reminds me of the unabomber


The unabomber lived as a recluse in a mountain cabin. These men are still social, but they are just doing their own thing in life.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

arnie said:


> The unabomber lived as a recluse in a mountain cabin. These men are still social, but they are just doing their own thing in life.


I would never survive, especially without the internet


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