# In love with a Muslim girl.



## Squiggledibble1

Hey everybody, 

Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?

I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.

Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats. 

It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise. 

Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy? 

Evan


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## low

They are wonderful, kind people?



emloughl said:


> So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats.


Wonderful, kind people are not bigoted, do not deny their own daughters happiness and respond to her rights as an individual by blackmail, mental and physical abuse.

They moved to Canada. They should have expected that their daughter may assosciate or fall in love with people of other religions and the rights of Canadian citizens and their duty as citizens also. This is what many Muslims do, join other countries and want their own idealisms and laws. Then try to and sometimes do take matters into their own hands when they do not get them.

Islam is not compatible with free society.

I'm actually concerned about these 'horrible threats'. I would take them very seriously. Seems to me like she should get a restraining order and disown them, even consider moving. Their irational faith based beliefs have have comprimised their ability to make sound, human judgements.

Sadly, since they cannot accept this and are corrupted, either option does not seem like a happy ending for your loved one. She should not be with them though. Don't fool yourself. You wrote it. Wonderful, kind people, religious or not - do not act that way.


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## ohgodits2014

I'm not Muslim, but I'm more or less in the same situation as your girlfriend. I think her parents will eventually learn to live with whatever she chooses to do with her life (especially if she's their only child), but I don't think I'd ever want to be that person who comes between someone and their family. Besides, if her parents do kick her out of the family if she marries you it's likely that she will grow to resent you. So much for your happy ending.

If I were you I would let her go. If she does come back then she's yours. But if she doesn't, it's just not meant to be.


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## Syndacus

I would definitely watch out for the father and his brothers because they are strong in their faith. I hear too many crazy fathers executing their daughters cause of their faith. Honor killings are on the rise unfortunately.


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## tortillachip

I’m in this situation. I’ve been with my muslim girlfriend for 5 years. It’s a horrible situation. Either way it’s going to end in hurt. Either you get your heart broken or you see your girlfriend go through the pain of losing her family, which will make you feel hurt and guilty. I can’t let go of my girlfriend though. I don’t want to be with anyone else and she feels the same. To me she’s everything I’ve ever dreamed of. We plan to get married next year.

I went to a mosque and “converted”, took arabic classes, attended an Islamic sciences course, said I would fast and would give our children muslim names. But her parents are still dead set against me, because they know I’m not a genuine convert. My girlfriend is going to have to force them to accept us. This is going to be really painful for her, because she’s not a strong person and she really cares about her parents.

In my experience your girlfriend must really love you if she wants to make it work because muslim parents will unleash hell before accepting a non-muslim. If you want any advice/support, feel free to post in this thread or PM me.


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## jpb

Damn it, I just spent an hour thinking about this and composing a response, and my browser lost the plot before it sent! Urgh!

Anyway, what my lost post boiled down to was this: I don't have any experience with this kind of thing, but from what you've told us here, it seems like you are the one who has to bend if this is going to work out. To those who will spit venom at this, even Christopher Hitchens married into the Greek Orthodox Church "to please his Greek parents-in-law." I'm not saying you should up and convert, but expressing interest in her family's religion might go a long way. You say they are wonderful and kind people (with flaws), and this says to me that there is _something _you respect in them and their way of life. Go out of your way to demonstrate that.

My family prays around the dinner table. They all know I'm an atheist, so when I'm around they never ask me to pray aloud, but I still hold hands with them, bow my head, and occasionally even say "amen." I don't think that degrades my atheism in the slightest. It's a matter of respect and what I'm comfortable with.

Obviously, your situation is more complicated. But it sounds like if you really want to be with this girl, you're going to have to cozy up to Islam. If you're not willing to do that, and she's not willing to go against her family and religion, I can't see any happy ending.

It's a sh*t situation, Evan. My heart goes out to you.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD

emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?
> 
> I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.
> 
> Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats.
> 
> It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise.
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy?
> 
> Evan


sounds tuff. i dont think theres anything you can really do here besides be there for her. thats all up to her. its good that she has her own damn mind and dosent use it for recording and verbally spouting holy book rules & regulations. but on the other side thats here family. thats one of the problems with religion or any other man made concept that people base there identities on without seeing it as a man made concept, it always creates division and a us versus them mentality. not trying to be negative but i would leave open the possibility of this not going the way you want it. just as a potential caution for yourself.


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## ohgodits2014

I don't mean to add salt into the wound, but... how is it possible that you people don't think ahead and spend *4-5 years* with someone you probably know (in the back of your mind) that you have no chance with? Of course at this point it would be hard to let them go, which is why this is the sort of thing you should've asked for advice 4-5 months into the relationship (or arguably, before you even tried pursuing a relationship with someone who comes from a very different family than you).


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## tortillachip

You don't choose who you fall in love with. My feelings for my girlfriend are the same as they were 5 years ago when I was first interested her. It wouldn't have been any easier to break up back then.

In my opinion, if you truly love someone, you wouldn't voluntarily let them go out of your life. The right person doesn't come along often. Especially if you're socially anxious.

It's not true that there "no chance" of it working. It's just very difficult. I know of lots of couples who made it despite the family disowning the girl over the relationship.


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## artynerd

Normally in this situation, they run away together 

Unless one of them converts.. or you're filthy rich..


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## anthrotex

I have never been in this situation, as anyone I've loved has pretty much been on par with my own beliefs. However, it's important to realize that if you choose to stay with this girl, you choose these issues for life. So it's important to decide if you can handle what could potentially be a life-long problem. Even if she chooses you and the two of you never hear from her parents again, can you handle being the person that is the cause of that?


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## Define Me

There was this Turkish girl I liked.....I once was a Muslim, but am not a Muslim for about 2 years now. 

I wouldn't go for it, too much trouble with parent relationships. Unles she really doesn't care and wants to date you regardless of her parent's approval, then go for it.

But I wouldn't go for it, because I think being religiously strict is bad and unattractive to me.


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## straightarrows

emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?
> 
> I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.
> 
> Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats.
> 
> It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise.
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy?
> 
> Evan


not sure, but I don't c any future for this,, I mean u both can simply run-away,,,, but r u sure u both will stay togather for the rest of ur life?

if u loss that love with her,,u will simply destory her!!!


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## millenniumman75

emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?
> 
> I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.
> 
> Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that *if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats. *
> 
> It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise.
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy?
> 
> Evan


There was a story in the Southwest United States where a Muslim daughter was going to desert Islam - her father ended up trying to run her over with the family truck. He went to trial saying something about Sharia Law in that he could murder his daughter. He still ended up doing time for attempted murder.

It happens more than you think - and this stuff is just Canada and the U.S.

There's a lot of stuff that people are turning a blind eye to.


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## Squiggledibble1

low said:


> Sadly, since they cannot accept this and are corrupted, either option does not seem like a happy ending for your loved one. She should not be with them though. Don't fool yourself. You wrote it. Wonderful, kind people, religious or not - do not act that way.


Thanks for the reply, low.

I really appreciate your thoughts and understand the importance and seriousness of your perspective. I do commend your honesty and directness in standing up for human rights, and I don't want to give you the impression that I'm naive regarding the seriousness of the matter.

The problem is that the issue is extremely complicated. You need to understand that, as abusive as they are, my girlfriend still loves them deeply. And from their perspective, they truly are acting out of love. It's just that they literally believe that apostasy and adultery are guarantors for eternally burning in hell. It's a sad and depressing issue, because to them, this whole concept is literally like watching their own daughter being killed.

It's not that I neglect the seriousness of the issue, but its that I do empathize for their hurt and pain. I do recognize that they are responsible for their actions, and I believe that our best outcome is to get her safe and well away from her abusive family.

It's just that it's a horrible, twisted, and complicated process.


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## Squiggledibble1

rednosereindeer said:


> If I were you I would let her go. If she does come back then she's yours. But if she doesn't, it's just not meant to be.


You're right, although it's hard to digest. I really appreciate your honesty... and if you're comfortable with it I'd like to hear more about your experiences.

I love her so much, but ultimately it's her choice to make. The best I can do is to be happy and live my own life. But I guess it's just so hard to watch her suffer, and feel so helpless. And I just feel so selfish to leave her, I feel like she really needs me.

The dilemma I face is this: Is it worse to be selfish and leave her, or to stay with her and suffocate? Either way I feel so trapped, and I do love her and need her support. But the longer I stay with her I feel the more we deteriorate.


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## SupaDupaFly

Weirdly enough I'm in a similar situation. But the thing is that she wasn't born in the middle east. You say she has an "Einstein view" of God. So i would assume she's a Agnostic. If she were to think this way, then she wouldn't have a problem leaving and marrying you. Maybe also you can research on Islam if you haven't yet. Read the Quran as well. If you really want to be with her then she has to come and live with you. That's the only way cuz no way her parents are gonna let her marry you. So at the end of the day is up to her. If she reallly loves you she will come to you no matter what. If she's not willing then it's best to let her go. Be straight foward with her. Oh and I read that UAE are more liberal towards Islam and women in general. If she were to live in other places like Iran or Oman then it would be another story. Just in case you didnt knew.


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## Squiggledibble1

Wow, I just have to say thank you to everyone for all of this incredible insight. 

After 4 years, it's easy to completely lose sight of things that are obvious to an outsider. So I really thank you all for your perspectives. 

Our situation is the ultimate impasse. Another complication has been that my social anxiety and low self-esteem made me become dependent and incapable of leaving her, because I really needed her.

Now, I am feeling nearly healed of my own mental turmoil, and feeling capable of dealing with this issue directly. We are currently building space between one another, and trying to create healthy and safe distance, while supporting one another as the friends that we are. 

I think my next move is to end the relationship, continue a cherished, although distanced friendship, and move onto my own personal health. 

If she is healthy and capable of getting away from her family, then one day maybe it will work. But for now I really have no choice but to leave her.


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## Noca

Any parent that physically threatened me or abused me is NOT a parent of mine and I'd gladly disown THEM not the other way around. They are maggots just as anyone who poses emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats, to their own daughter, religion is NO EXCUSE for this kind of behaviour!

She has the right to stand up for herself and put these maggots in prison for making such threats. There has been several honor killings regarding Islam in Canada recently and a bunch of the parents are on trial currently. I doubt the justice system has any tolerance for this kind of crap.


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## Noca

anthrotex said:


> I have never been in this situation, as anyone I've loved has pretty much been on par with my own beliefs. However, it's important to realize that if you choose to stay with this girl, you choose these issues for life. So it's important to decide if you can handle what could potentially be a life-long problem. Even if she chooses you and the two of you never hear from her parents again, can you handle being the person that is the cause of that?


He wouldn't be a cause of that, her parent's would be to blame for their own ridiculous actions. Be careful and catch yourself when displacing the blame to try to justify someone's own behaviors.


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## straightarrows

SupaDupaFly said:


> Weirdly enough I'm in a similar situation. But the thing is that she wasn't born in the middle east. You say she has an "Einstein view" of God. So i would assume she's a Agnostic. If she were to think this way, then she wouldn't have a problem leaving and marrying you. Maybe also you can research on Islam if you haven't yet. Read the Quran as well. If you really want to be with her then she has to come and live with you. That's the only way cuz no way her parents are gonna let her marry you. So at the end of the day is up to her. If she reallly loves you she will come to you no matter what. If she's not willing then it's best to let her go. Be straight foward with her. Oh and I read that UAE are more liberal towards Islam and women in general. If she were to live in other places like Iran or Oman then it would be another story. Just in case you didnt knew.


mmmmmmmmmmmmm,
not sure what 2 say

only if he converted!

Not sure about this,,,,,

That don't change anything,, the whole story is about her religion not culture!!


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## straightarrows

emloughl said:


> Wow, I just have to say thank you to everyone for all of this incredible insight.
> 
> After 4 years, it's easy to completely lose sight of things that are obvious to an outsider. So I really thank you all for your perspectives.
> 
> Our situation is the ultimate impasse. Another complication has been that my social anxiety and low self-esteem made me become dependent and incapable of leaving her, because I really needed her.
> 
> Now, I am feeling nearly healed of my own mental turmoil, and feeling capable of dealing with this issue directly. We are currently building space between one another, and trying to create healthy and safe distance, while supporting one another as the friends that we are.
> 
> I think my next move is to end the relationship, continue a cherished, although distanced friendship, and move onto my own personal health.
> 
> If she is healthy and capable of getting away from her family, then one day maybe it will work. But for now I really have no choice but to leave her.


so, It wasn't "Pure Love"!!!! ? u loved her coz u needed her!!! :um u r not the first one as it seems to be very common in Interracial relationships.....

================


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## Squiggledibble1

straightarrows said:


> so, It wasn't "Pure Love"!!!! ? u loved her coz u needed her!!! :um u r not the first one as it seems to be very common in Interracial relationships.....
> 
> ================


Yea, I'd have to admit to that.

But unfortunately, it's sort of like SA interfered with my capability to truly and effectively appreciate myself and her, and thus the relationship.

Had I not been troubled with such low self-esteem, perhaps the relationship would have turned out much healthier. But then again, perhaps the relationship would have healthily ended long ago.

Now it's just so sticky and difficult. She is one of the few people I feel that understands me, and it's really hard to break free and start over.

Does anybody have experience with dependency issues in relationships - about how to cope with leaving and starting over, while having/healing from social anxiety?


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## jg43i9jghy0t4555

low said:


> They are wonderful, kind people?
> 
> Wonderful, kind people are not bigoted, do not deny their own daughters happiness and respond to her rights as an individual by blackmail, mental and physical abuse.
> 
> They moved to Canada. They should have expected that their daughter may assosciate or fall in love with people of other religions and the rights of Canadian citizens and their duty as citizens also. This is what many Muslims do, join other countries and want their own idealisms and laws. Then try to and sometimes do take matters into their own hands when they do not get them.
> 
> Islam is not compatible with free society.
> 
> I'm actually concerned about these 'horrible threats'. I would take them very seriously. Seems to me like she should get a restraining order and disown them, even consider moving. Their irational faith based beliefs have have comprimised their ability to make sound, human judgements.
> 
> Sadly, since they cannot accept this and are corrupted, either option does not seem like a happy ending for your loved one. She should not be with them though. Don't fool yourself. You wrote it. Wonderful, kind people, religious or not - do not act that way.


Great post. +1


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## Squiggledibble1

With reply to above post:

Certainly, I agree that there are huge issues with Islam and fundamentalists.

But becoming reactive, defensive, angry, or adversarial simply is not an effective method of coping with the conflicts, let alone finding a healthy resolution. 

Her and I certainly acknowledge the difficulties that you've outlined. But I'm not searching for emphasis of the problems, I'm looking for ways to cope with them. 

Evan


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## SupaDupaFly

straightarrows said:


> mmmmmmmmmmmmm,
> not sure what 2 say
> 
> only if he converted!
> 
> Not sure about this,,,,,
> 
> That don't change anything,, the whole story is about her religion not culture!!


Religion is part of culture in Islam. Specially in countries like Iran or Oman. I do strongly disagree with the treatment of women over there. But that's just my opinion.


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## point of view

I'm not an expert on religion but here is an idea. Talk to her parents' Imam, a person who they talk to about religious maters. From what I've seen, there is a chance that this person might be reasonable. He might be able to understand both sides of the conflict, and suggest a solution. Perhaps his own religious views are less dogmatic and he will influence the parents in your favor.

I hope I'm not too late.


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## kosherpiggy

I'm Muslim, but I'm in love with a Jew. My family's a bit like that cuz they're culturally conservative; my father would want me to marry a Turkish Muslim man, but I just can't see that happening.


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## straightarrows

SupaDupaFly said:


> Religion is part of culture in Islam. Specially in countries like Iran or Oman. I do strongly disagree with the treatment of women over there. But that's just my opinion.


http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f32/muslim-women-few-things-i-know-158206/

find Oman..........*military tattoo show *



kosherpiggy said:


> I'm Muslim, but I'm in love with a Jew. My family's a bit like that cuz they're culturally conservative; my father would want me to marry a Turkish Muslim man, but I just can't see that happening.


 let me gues,,,, u'r living in Holland or Germany??


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## Idgie

I married an Egyptian muslim man and it was NOT easy at first. His parents were totally against us because I was not muslim but a 'christian' (that's what religion I had to align myself with there because being non religious is unheard of and has some pretty nasty consequences). So, he was shunned from his family for close to a year until his mother got some advice from an Imam that it was ok to marry me. But, I think the only reason they could finally give in was because I am a WOMAN.
For muslim girls, the idea of dating/marrying anyone outside of Islam is forbidden and actually Illegal in muslim countries. So maybe this is the perspective the parents are coming from and it's hard to let go of their old world values. 
I was lucky because my husband, like me, is not really religious (although we'd never tell either of our families this lol). However, if this girl you are with is religious, you must realize that down the road your religious beliefs will cause some issues, not even including the family. Most men I've known in these situations just convert. But to be true to yourself and her, maybe you and her family should sit down and really have a good talk, and if possible, include the advice of an Imam in the conversation.


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## Squiggledibble1

Thanks everybody for their perspectives.

In case anybody is interested, here's how things have gone down:

- I can happily say that I've nearly cured my Social Anxiety Disorder. (Yes, this is possible) If you're wondering, I have been working with Dr. Richard's CBT program for about 8 months now. There are still some kinks to iron out, but this has contributed fantastically to my relationship with D. 


- I am not, nor was ever given the capability to convert to Islam. To me, religion and spirituality is a personal experience and not some doctrine that needs to be signed up to. Technically, I am an atheist. But an atheist in the same was as Einstein and Sagan. I love life, I love the universe, and I am at peace with it all. D is the same way, although perhaps she would call herself a Muslim by identity. Religion does not interfere in our lives because it is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we love one another and respect one another. In terms of religious dogma, well it's a bunch of manipulative political crap. It usually is. 

- D's older brother just announced to his family that he will be getting married to a non-muslim girl from Armenia. His family has essentially disowned him, but he has moved on and is focusing on respecting his own life now for a change rather than submitting to his parent's ancient, controlling regime. He is living across the country (in Toronto) with his fiancee and is very happy to be starting his life there. He has visited his parents, but I think he now recognizes that they don't really have the right to criticize him anymore. He keeps quite a bit of distance.

- D's little sister has just entered university, and about 6 months ago began dating a Filipino guy - both of which are amazingly fun people. Her parents are basically going ballistic.

- I, as well as D, are now finishing University and have great careers lined up. She is planning to move out of her house (and likely to be taking care of her little sister in helping her leave, too). All of us have banded together and formed a great team of support for one another, against this tyrannical religious dogmatic crap. D and I are thinking of moving somewhere in the world (don't know where, don't really care either) and starting a great new adventure together. 

But a lot of emotional therapy / rebuilding / relearning / personal growth needs to happen. The one thing that D and I have in common, is that our parent's were quite abusive and neglectful (whether in good intentions or not). It's great to be able to take a heart-filled stance against this. The last thing I want is for this cycle of control/abuse/neglect to continue. Nobody in the world deserves this. 

It's a beautiful thing, the values that make Canada a great country (and other alike countries, of course): Secularism (freedom of and from religion), freedom to live your life the way you wish, and freedom of speech. I am happy to be standing up for something that I've forever only taken for granted. 


As for D's parents: Well, they're probably going to have a big fuss, move back to Egypt, and get really abusive and angry. But hell, what are you going to do? Fortunately, D and I are in the capacity to forgive. So when they become frustrated and angry at the decrepit state of Egypt and its ridiculous religious fundamentalism (their words), and decide to move back to (and actually appreciate) Canada, as well as our choices, then we'll welcome them with open arms. But the great part is that they won't have any control over our lives.


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## JustThisGuy

This is beautiful. Really happy you two overcame. 

I'll admit, my theophobia was kicking in when I first started reading the thread, but to see her other siblings break the chains, and then you two follow, was great news.


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## kennyc

**** religion...


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## Noca

I am so happy that freedom and love won and her religious oppressive parents lost! NICE! May they suffer many sleepless nights being angry with themselves in their decrepit craphole of Egypt =) A fitting demise for such evil people ^_^

This update really made my day and put a smile on my face, giving some hope that my own religious oppressive family will end up angry and alone by themselves.


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## bioalp43

Wow. This is all right in my wheelhouse. 

I've pretty much ditched Islam completely and let my parents know about it. It was a long process, and took me a lot of time to muster the balls to do it, but it ultimately came down to me telling them, "I don't care about Islam (or any religion for that matter), and I don't see it having any place in my future."

It is definitely one of my proudest moments, and still makes my parents look at me differently, but no way I'd ever take it back! Twenty-****ing-years is how long it took me to try bacon. And now that I have no holy book to stop me, I now enjoy it on the regular lol 

As in your case, my man, best of luck. I know first-hand how abrasive Muslim parents can be and how they put a tremendous amount of responsibility on their kids. If it's been about four years now and you still haven't given up, then you must really have something special. Keep fighting for your love, and personally, I hope your girlfriend can tell her parents to shove the Qur'an up their asses. FLAME AWAY!

EDIT: I just read your second post! That's ****ing wonderful! Props for taking that initiative. You're awfully lucky for having a support group also. Cheers.


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## straightarrows

don't know what to say,, as it seems to be One-Side love!!! But Good Luck!!! ,,what else can I say!


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## forex

low said:


> They are wonderful, kind people?
> 
> Wonderful, kind people are not bigoted, do not deny their own daughters happiness and respond to her rights as an individual by blackmail, mental and physical abuse.
> 
> They moved to Canada. They should have expected that their daughter may assosciate or fall in love with people of other religions and the rights of Canadian citizens and their duty as citizens also. This is what many Muslims do, join other countries and want their own idealisms and laws. Then try to and sometimes do take matters into their own hands when they do not get them.
> 
> Islam is not compatible with free society.
> 
> I'm actually concerned about these 'horrible threats'. I would take them very seriously. Seems to me like she should get a restraining order and disown them, even consider moving. Their irational faith based beliefs have have comprimised their ability to make sound, human judgements.
> 
> Sadly, since they cannot accept this and are corrupted, either option does not seem like a happy ending for your loved one. She should not be with them though. Don't fool yourself. You wrote it. Wonderful, kind people, religious or not - do not act that way.


not compatible with "free" society ?
what free society , you are brainwashed my friend , you ain't free.

back to the post.

that girl is weird , she needs to say what she wants. living in doubt all the time aint good you won't know if your relationsh. will hold.
building a relationsh. on false beliefs.


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## forex

bioalp43 said:


> Wow. This is all right in my wheelhouse.
> 
> I've pretty much ditched Islam completely and let my parents know about it. It was a long process, and took me a lot of time to muster the balls to do it, but it ultimately came down to me telling them, "I don't care about Islam (or any religion for that matter), and I don't see it having any place in my future."
> 
> It is definitely one of my proudest moments, and still makes my parents look at me differently, but no way I'd ever take it back! Twenty-****ing-years is how long it took me to try bacon. And now that I have no holy book to stop me, I now enjoy it on the regular lol
> 
> As in your case, my man, best of luck. I know first-hand how abrasive Muslim parents can be and how they put a tremendous amount of responsibility on their kids. If it's been about four years now and you still haven't given up, then you must really have something special. Keep fighting for your love, and personally, *I hope your girlfriend can tell her parents to shove the Qur'an up their asses.* FLAME AWAY!
> 
> EDIT: I just read your second post! That's ****ing wonderful! Props for taking that initiative. You're awfully lucky for having a support group also. Cheers.


yet you still wear a beard in your pics , still doubts on letting go ??

bacon is the reason to let go :roll wow you are the man !!
Islam is only for real men/woman , you just have been a victim of society without boundaries before you know you'll get a d*ck up your *** bc society encourages it.

that last part , i would fck you up if you told me that in front of me  
most of you b8tches have only words but when it comes to action you chicken out as always. :roll

lol , people say that religious people are bad mouthing , what i see here on this part all topics always there is an atheist bad mouthing a religion without any reason.


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## low

forex said:


> not compatible with "free" society ?
> what free society , you are brainwashed my friend , you ain't free.
> 
> back to the post.
> 
> that girl is weird , she needs to say what she wants. living in doubt all the time aint good you won't know if your relationsh. will hold.
> building a relationsh. on false beliefs.


Of course we aren't free but we are more liberal than most of the Islamic world. I don't think that's brainwashed.


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## BrookeHannigan

hi 
im a atheist engaged to a muslim
if you want to marry a muslim girl you must convert to islam
muslim men on the other side can marry all religions without having the woman to convert
his family really loves me even though im not ''one of them'' lol,
if you have any questions you can ask me lol but I think if that family is overly religious you dont stand much of a chance..


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## kj87

low said:


> They are wonderful, kind people?
> 
> Wonderful, kind people are not bigoted, do not deny their own daughters happiness and respond to her rights as an individual by blackmail, mental and physical abuse.
> 
> They moved to Canada. They should have expected that their daughter may assosciate or fall in love with people of other religions and the rights of Canadian citizens and their duty as citizens also. This is what many Muslims do, join other countries and want their own idealisms and laws. Then try to and sometimes do take matters into their own hands when they do not get them.
> 
> Islam is not compatible with free society.
> 
> I'm actually concerned about these 'horrible threats'. I would take them very seriously. Seems to me like she should get a restraining order and disown them, even consider moving. Their irational faith based beliefs have have comprimised their ability to make sound, human judgements.
> 
> Sadly, since they cannot accept this and are corrupted, either option does not seem like a happy ending for your loved one. She should not be with them though. Don't fool yourself. You wrote it. Wonderful, kind people, religious or not - do not act that way.


I agree with all of this. I would also not feel bad about her parents "disowning" her, or you feeling like their strained relationship is your fault. They are the ones being bigoted, and they are the ones making that choice.

Just because someone walks around with a smile on their face, doesn't mean they are a nice person. What you've described is ABUSE.


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## Brad

Sorry, time to abandon ship. Her parents seem to be bat sh*t crazy. If she won't separate herself from them then you should leave. It's not fair to yourself or her to deal with that.


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## olschool

You said she is agnostic or atheist, well if she is either one of those, how can she be Muslim???


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## olschool

So basicly you are in love with an Egyptian atheist and not a Muslim?


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## shammy

Please don't mix culture and religion together, honour killing has got nothing to do with islam it has more to do with culture.


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## MobiusX

those killings remind of the fatalities in mortal kombat like the beheading


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## Ali477

Awesome its great to hear that it worked out for you two in the end


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## voyageuse

hi
i was raised in a muslim family.
My boyfriend is christian.
I do not exist for my father anymore.
I might still be a muslim. if so, i m that kind of muslim who believes she can make her own choices. iF GOD EXISTS, it s between me and him.
I guess i ll never for being rejected by my father.
But i m happier with my boybriend.


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## blackeroni

emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?
> 
> I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.
> 
> Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats.
> 
> It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise.
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy?
> 
> Evan


Tell them, "If I am not worthy of your daughter, Then god shall strike me down now"!

That'll shut em up.


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## straightarrows

voyageuse said:


> hi
> i was raised in a muslim family.
> My boyfriend is christian.
> I do not exist for my father anymore.
> I might still be a muslim. if so, i m that kind of muslim who believes she can make her own choices. iF GOD EXISTS, it s between me and him.
> I guess i ll never for being rejected by my father.
> But i m happier with my boybriend.


what about ur kids? will they become Muslims or Christians?!


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## Delicate

olschool said:


> You said she is agnostic or atheist, well if she is either one of those, how can she be Muslim???


He means she's from a Muslim family and was raised with that religion.

OP, it's really sad that her parents are likely to disown her and her siblings, it's sad for them. It's good she has her brother and sister's support.


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## dal user

I'm not prejudice or anything but its really not a good idea if they are really strict and they can take it quite bad with you being western .


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## sudo nym

love can't stop anything man. if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. her parents' potentially bigoted opinions don't mean dinky doo dude. if they really cared, they'd care about the well being and happiness of their daughter. but at the same time, you have a choice between sticking to your constitution and denying religion, or converting. if it means staying with the girl you loved for the rest of your live, is it worth it to just open your mind and learn a little bit about someone else's religion for a bit? I have no answers for you haha that's all on you


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## Parcius

Hi 
I have been in a similar situation. I had a muslim boyfriend for a year. Although he was not very religious, his mother was, and he respected her opinion a lot. She was probably not as strict as your _girlfriends_ parents though, my ex is from a bit more liberal country.
The relationship was great, but it was also an emotional rollercoaster since we never could agree on how we were going to work this issue out.
I thought about converting just so that we could be together, but I could never get comfortable with that idea, especially since I am a woman. I did not want to pretend like I was somebody else. Since that was basically my only option, I made a tough decision; I let him go. Now we barely talk. I am glad not to be worried all the time, but I miss our memories together, and who knows - maybe it could have worked out. But you can never know for sure what the future will bring. Maybe one day you can be with her. Like rednosereindeer said; if you love her, set her free. If she comes back she's yours.

Well I just wanted to tell you about my experience, and to let you know that I know what you are going through. I hope you will do what's right for you  Good luck!


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## da kewliest

been on and off with a Pakistani girl for a couple years, her parents are muslim not very strict but still. they were kinda weird about me when they found out i was white, but after i met them they thought i was better than any of the douchebag brown kids in the neighborhood

......note not all brown people are douchebags, just where i live the indian and Pakistani kids tend to be spoiled little *******s


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## straightarrows

Parcius said:


> Hi
> I have been in a similar situation. I had a muslim boyfriend for a year. Although he was not very religious, his mother was, and he respected her opinion a lot. She was probably not as strict as your _girlfriends_ parents though, my ex is from a bit more liberal country.
> The relationship was great, but it was also an emotional rollercoaster since we never could agree on how we were going to work this issue out.
> I thought about converting just so that we could be together, but I could never get comfortable with that idea, especially since I am a woman. I did not want to pretend like I was somebody else. Since that was basically my only option, I made a tough decision; I let him go. Now we barely talk. I am glad not to be worried all the time, but I miss our memories together, and who knows - maybe it could have worked out. But you can never know for sure what the future will bring. Maybe one day you can be with her. Like rednosereindeer said; if you love her, set her free. If she comes back she's yours.
> 
> Well I just wanted to tell you about my experience, and to let you know that I know what you are going through. I hope you will do what's right for you  Good luck!


well, if you both born and grow up in Norway it can be easy coz you share the same culture (like my pa/ren/ts/),,,, YOU DON"T HAVE TO CONVERT! BUT YOU SHOULD BE either a Christian or Jew,,, the kids will become Muslims... anyway Good Luck in Life


----------



## jimity

rednosereindeer said:


> I think her parents will eventually learn to live with whatever she chooses to do with her life (especially if she's their only child).
> 
> If I were you I would let her go. If she does come back then she's yours. But if she doesn't, it's just not meant to be.


Yeah right. Maybe the mother, the father could possible kill her if she chooses to marry him.

If she comes back then she'll be his, perhaps. If she doesn't come back, most likely she was murdered, that's why she never came back.


----------



## jimity

Brad5 said:


> Sorry, time to abandon ship. Her parents seem to be bat sh*t crazy.


That had me laughing.


----------



## jimity

Syndacus said:


> I would definitely watch out for the father and his brothers because they are strong in their faith. I hear too many crazy fathers executing their daughters cause of their faith. Honor killings are on the rise unfortunately.


This.


----------



## meedo

emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?
> 
> I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.
> 
> Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats.
> 
> It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise.
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy?
> 
> Evan


Well

Me being a believing muslim. I do understand your plight. There are few issues that make such relationships harder .. i know i am in an atheist or agnostic section so this post is really not to offend any one.. i am posting this to explain to people here how muslim parents would think or the emotional trouble they go through. I am in no way shape or form think that disowning, threatening or abuse is a solution or acceptable.

1- In Islam , parents are responsible for helping their children maintain proper faith. They ( parents) will be judged on this on Judgement day .

2- Proper faith in Islam is thought to be the highest honor a person could have and in fact, the only thing that lasts

3- Muslim parents believe that the greatest gift they can give to their children is a solid faith. More than money or anything else. The idea is that this world is short and the afterlife is eternal. So loosing the after life for short gains is foolish.

I would say like this... Muslim parents will be much more calm if you are ab it diplomatic and slick about it.. like for example you can assure them that you respect their faith ... and that you don't mind that their grandchildren are muslim. Call and congratulate them on religious holidays .. showing them your respect and understanding could go a long way and if you are a good guy they wil actually start welcoming you gradually into the family.

In any case .. i am sort of in a similar situation... i am torn by my attraction for some ladies where i live. but i do love my faith. It prevents me from taking steps and meeting girls because i want to be straightforward and honest and not play around or cause somebody a heartbreak.

I understand that Islam seems a very tough faith... but 8 years living in Sweden haven't made my love less for my faith. May be because i wasn't forced into anything and that it actually helped me through tough times. I guess it depends on how people were raised up with it and if they associate it with negative experiences or not. For me .. it was a saver at a time i was feeling so low.

I have respect on people on this section, and if this is the way they feel is healthy for them.. one cannot but wish them the best .

Hope you all conquer SA and live wonderful lives ! :yes


----------



## BrookeHannigan

meedo said:


> Well
> 
> Me being a believing muslim. I do understand your plight. There are few issues that make such relationships harder .. i know i am in an atheist or agnostic section so this post is really not to offend any one.. i am posting this to explain to people here how muslim parents would think or the emotional trouble they go through. I am in no way shape or form think that disowning, threatening or abuse is a solution or acceptable.
> 
> 1- In Islam , parents are responsible for helping their children maintain proper faith. They ( parents) will be judged on this on Judgement day .
> 
> 2- Proper faith in Islam is thought to be the highest honor a person could have and in fact, the only thing that lasts
> 
> 3- Muslim parents believe that the greatest gift they can give to their children is a solid faith. More than money or anything else. The idea is that this world is short and the afterlife is eternal. So loosing the after life for short gains is foolish.
> 
> *I would say like this... Muslim parents will be much more calm if you are ab it diplomatic and slick about it.. like for example you can assure them that you respect their faith ... and that you don't mind that their grandchildren are muslim. Call and congratulate them on religious holidays .. showing them your respect and understanding could go a long way and if you are a good guy girl they wil actually start welcoming you gradually into the family. *
> 
> In any case .. i am sort of in a similar situation... i am torn by my attraction for some ladies where i live. but i do love my faith. It prevents me from taking steps and meeting girls because i want to be straightforward and honest and not play around or cause somebody a heartbreak.
> 
> I understand that Islam seems a very tough faith... but 8 years living in Sweden haven't made my love less for my faith. May be because i wasn't forced into anything and that it actually helped me through tough times. I guess it depends on how people were raised up with it and if they associate it with negative experiences or not. For me .. it was a saver at a time i was feeling so low.
> 
> I have respect on people on this section, and if this is the way they feel is healthy for them.. one cannot but wish them the best .
> 
> Hope you all conquer SA and live wonderful lives ! :yes


I can confirm this based on my own relationship/experience,,as this iswhat ive experienced as well :yes
There is a lot of hate coming from my dad though, but i just really dont care:roll


----------



## Timbolin

emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?


well if her family's traditional you might have to ask her dad for permission to marry her, and he might so no etc. They sometimes allow it if a white guy seems good / suitable. I'm sure there's muslim websites you can read about exactly this kind of question.


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## thisismeyo

I thought its against the muslim religion for a muslim girl to marry a non-muslim guy, regardless of what the parents think?


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## straightarrows

thisismeyo said:


> I thought its against the muslim religion for a muslim girl to marry a non-muslim guy, regardless of what the parents think?


true


Timbolin said:


> well if her family's traditional you might have to ask her dad for permission to marry her, and he might so no etc. They sometimes allow it if a white guy seems good / suitable. I'm sure there's muslim websites you can read about exactly this kind of question.


its doesnt' matter what her father thinks, if he is not a muslim she can't!.......... "White guy!" we're talking abut religon not race!


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## Craig788

i see great heartache ahead


----------



## Sabreena

thisismeyo said:


> I thought its against the muslim religion for a muslim girl to marry a non-muslim guy, regardless of what the parents think?


Not everyone follows the religion letter by letter.


----------



## nirwan

*Just convert your relligion*

Hai emloughl,

The only answer of your question is " You just need to convert your religion to ISLAM and be a muslim" if you really really love your muslim girl.
Im a muslim and you need to think further.
1. How if you have a child? How are they relligion will be?
Your wife parent will not accept your child to be baptis if you are christian. 
Your wife will make your child a muslim too.

2. You will be lonely every time you pray, every time you celebrate your feast day because ISLAM prevent muslim to celebrate every feast day except feast day in ISLAM.

3. If you still marry her, and not reck of her parent so your must be very very blind by love i think. Cause ISLAM is prevent muslim to marry another relligion based on holy book in ISLAM.

If these statement are not in holy book of ISLAM (Al-Quran) and word of prophet.
I WILL NOT SAY ALL THESE. IT UP TO YOU.



emloughl said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationships?
> 
> I live in Canada, and have been in love with an apostate muslim girl for nearly 4 years. She is Egyptian by ethnicity, but was born in the United Arab Emirates, and has lived back and forth between there and Canada for most of her life. Her parents are very conservative Muslims, and she is what I'd call ceremonially religious - she is pretty much agnostic/atheist, but she still holds a very deep loving bond with her religion and with her parents. She sees God in a pantheistic / Einsteinian way.
> 
> Unfortunately her parents do not see things the same way, and believe literally in the Qu'ran and their prophet... As well, they believe that if their daughter loses faith that it is grounds for her eternal punishment as well as their own. So although they are wonderful and kind people, they have reacted with emotional, sometimes physical abuse, as well as various horrible threats.
> 
> It has kind of made things very difficult between her and I, and I don't really know what to do. I feel as though I love her enough to marry her, but for her, being with me means never seeing her parents again. There is literally no compromise.
> 
> Does anybody have experiences with this? Or any type of mixed-culture / mixed-religion relationship experience? Or thoughts on how to cope with apostasy?
> 
> Evan


----------

