# Does being a nice guy mean anything?



## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

I have always been told I am a really nice person. Any girl who dates me is lucky to have me, and all kinds of bull**** like that. Just recently a friend of mine, this girl I hang out with, texted me and asked me if I went out on a date with this girl I met online. I texted her back telling her that she cancelled . This is the texting that me and my friend exchanged

Her: What is wrong with these girls? They dont know what theyre missing out on!

Me: I know, right, thanks steph. Your the best 

Her: Its true! Youre the sweetest guy ever and youre going to have a great job, what else does a girl want in a guy? The right girl will come around!

Me: Thanks steph. I hope so. Your really sweet

Her: No reason to say thanks, i really think any girl would be lucky to have you steve. These girls are crazy!

These texts she sent me really made me feel better, but it bothered me later because I realized that it's all bs. Being a nice guy has not gotten me anywhere with girls. There are a few girls that know that I am a great guy, but they are not flocking to me. I am not exctly being chased around by girls really. Is anyone else here bothered when people tell you that you will find the right girl? Because I am really picky, and I refuse to lower my standards. There are many girls that have what I am looking for and I choose to stick with that. What do u guys think, what does a smart, nice guy have over a goodlooking, hunky *******? It seems to me, absolutely nothing. My friend is 20 by the way, so I ain't really sure why she tells me this if she likes to date these ********. She's gorgeous and she dates really goodlooking guys who treat her like crap. What gives?


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Im a nice guy too but dont get anywhere. As Doc love says, nice guy is anthesis of a challenge.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Being a 'nice guy' has nothing to do with it. It sounds like you have a good friend. Hold on to that one. Your generalizing and trying to come up with a 'X,Y' explanation to why you don't have a girlfriend. In reality, there are '*******s' who don't have gfs either. If your set on being a jerk then be one and lets see if that makes much of a difference. Probably not.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Your lack of luck with girls has nothing to do with you being nice, it has to do with a lack of confidence with approaching girls and being assertive in that manner. I know this because I am EXACTLY the same as you and have been told what you have been over and over again.

The reason some girls seem to only date these guys who seemingly treat them like crap is because these guys are confident in themselves and they are a someone strong and protective which would be comforting to a lot of girls. 

The truth is respect, kindness and loyalty will be traits which will leave you in a happy and healthy relationship but I think the lack of assertiveness and self confidence is initially not a something which draws girls to you at first and it is traits like these which are important when it comes to initial attraction to others.

So it has nothing to do with "nice guys finish last", it's simply a case of being confident in yourself and not being a pushover when it comes to expressing yourself.


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## sacred (May 25, 2009)

your friend is too weak and egotistical to be straight with you and tell you like it is and let you in on her real thought so the way she compensates is by being a positively positive *** kissing bubble head.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

It's more that assertiveness (standing up for yourself and having an individual opinion) component that attracts girls, not necessarily the "jerk" component of those guys you complain about.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

sacred said:


> your friend is too weak and egotistical to be straight with you and tell you like it is and let you in on her real thought so the way she compensates is by being a positively positive *** kissing bubble head.


:|


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## sda0 (Oct 16, 2009)

Ospi said:


> Your lack of luck with girls has nothing to do with you being nice, it has to do with a lack of confidence with approaching girls and being assertive in that manner. I know this because I am EXACTLY the same as you and have been told what you have been over and over again.
> 
> The reason some girls seem to only date these guys who seemingly treat them like crap is because these guys are confident in themselves and they are a someone strong and protective which would be comforting to a lot of girls.
> 
> ...


Print this, frame this, put this in the FAQ, and send Ospi money for this advice. Im in no way kidding

Reece, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. You hit the nail on the head, brotha.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

sacred said:


> your friend is too weak and egotistical to be straight with you and tell you like it is and let you in on her real thought so the way she compensates is by being a positively positive *** kissing bubble head.


Well I don't know about "weak" and "egotistical" but there is some truth here.

What she left out was the latter half of the whole truth: "You're such a great guy... for someone else!"

The "nice guy" that girls AREN'T interested in are DOORMATS. This whole issue has been discussed repeatedly on this forum.

Basically, you need to display confidence and assertiveness, as well as a personality. If you're doing the 'doormat' thing, you're displaying none of those traits, and no girl's going to be interested in you.

They're not looking for jerks. They're looking for the traits that a lot of jerks just happen to possess.


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## accepting myself (Jun 27, 2010)

sabueed said:


> I have always been told I am a really nice person. Any girl who dates me is lucky to have me, and all kinds of bull**** like that. Just recently a friend of mine, this girl I hang out with, texted me and asked me if I went out on a date with this girl I met online. I texted her back telling her that she cancelled . This is the texting that me and my friend exchanged
> 
> Her: What is wrong with these girls? They dont know what theyre missing out on!
> 
> ...


What do you mean by "Because I'm really picky and I refuse to lower my standards.

I have seen a few posts of "nice guys " who can't get the girls but then they throw in the " I won't lower my standards " or something similiar so could it possibly mean that the standards are too high? I don't want to cause conflict but I have been dying to ask the nice guys this question.

Another thing to consider not for the OP but for nice guys in general is where are you guys looking for these girls if its places like clubs, bars or partys then maybe the reason is they like party animals not quite shy guys.

Anyway I hope all the nice guys get their dream girls


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Being nice isnt the problem, there must be something else lacking. You can only be yourself, so being a fake ******* is going to look like a fake *******. Probably wont get you anywhere.


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## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

Ospi said:


> Your lack of luck with girls has nothing to do with you being nice, it has to do with a lack of confidence with approaching girls and being assertive in that manner. I know this because I am EXACTLY the same as you and have been told what you have been over and over again.
> 
> The reason some girls seem to only date these guys who seemingly treat them like crap is because these guys are confident in themselves and they are a someone strong and protective which would be comforting to a lot of girls.
> 
> ...


Wow, that was well put. You are so right about this. I feel better now, it just always irritated me seeing all these girls date jerks, but I guess you are right about why that is. Thank You 



sacred said:


> your friend is too weak and egotistical to be straight with you and tell you like it is and let you in on her real thought so the way she compensates is by being a positively positive *** kissing bubble head.


I hate that a lot of people do this to me, because I don't believe what she says about any girl is lucky to have me, I wish people ould not say these things, it gives me false hope.



accepting myself said:


> What do you mean by "Because I'm really picky and I refuse to lower my standards.
> 
> I have seen a few posts of "nice guys " who can't get the girls but then they throw in the " I won't lower my standards " or something similiar so could it possibly mean that the standards are too high? I don't want to cause conflict but I have been dying to ask the nice guys this question.
> 
> ...


I have never had a gf, and because of my lack of experience in this field I want to find a nice, smart, pretty girl to have these experiences with. It's basically because I want to have what I always wanted in a girl, and I don't have time to wait for one that doesn't meet my standards. My standards aren't too damn high, but still, I have my preferences.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

I wish you would text her this. "If I'm such a great guy, why won't you date me?"

Her response: "I just like you as a friend."

You: "If you're really my friend, you'll help me get attractive girls like yourself. Why do you settle for guys who treat you badly anyways?"


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

mbp86 said:


> I wish you would text her this. "If I'm such a great guy, why won't you date me?"
> 
> Her response: "I just like you as a friend."
> 
> You: "If you're really my friend, you'll help me get _*attractive girls*_ like yourself. Why do you settle for guys who treat you badly anyways?"


This seems to be a common thing. Everyone wants an attractive girl. How about meeting girls and getting to know girls. I am sure that everyone has something to offer and limiting yourself by looks is a huge mistake. Work out if you are attracted to the girl after you have spoken to them. You can actually be attracted to someone on more levels then looks.

Book-Cover-Judge ???


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## MichaelWesten (Jan 27, 2010)

matty said:


> This seems to be a common thing. Everyone wants an attractive girl. How about meeting girls and getting to know girls. I am sure that everyone has something to offer and limiting yourself by looks is a huge mistake. Work out if you are attracted to the girl after you have spoken to them. You can actually be attracted to someone on more levels then looks.
> 
> Book-Cover-Judge ???


Sorry but attraction means something. You can say it doesn't, but everyone wants to be with someone they find physically attractive.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Yes it does, but it is very possible to find someone physically attractive after you have got to know them a little better. Just because you dont find them physically attractive straight up does not mean you wont once you know them. I am not saying go for someone completely different to your type, but if all you are interested in is physical attraction then you will be missing out on other possibilites.

Think about it this way, you see your perfect girl physically, you meet and start talking, you find out that she has loose morals and whatever (completely different to your dream girl personality/ moral wise) Would you still be physically attracted? For me this is a big no. I would not be physically attracted to her once I got to know her.


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## Blue Bird (Jun 28, 2004)

sabueed said:


> Wow, that was well put. You are so right about this. I feel better now, it just always irritated me seeing all these girls date jerks, but I guess you are right about why that is. Thank You
> 
> I hate that a lot of people do this to me, because I don't believe what she says about any girl is lucky to have me, I wish people ould not say these things, it gives me false hope.
> 
> I have never had a gf, and because of my lack of experience in this field I want to find a nice, smart, pretty girl to have these experiences with. It's basically because I want to have what I always wanted in a girl, and I don't have time to wait for one that doesn't meet my standards. My standards aren't too damn high, but still, I have my preferences.


accepting myself made a very good point. If you're in clubs and parties meeting girls, those kind of girls probably don't like the shy quiet type. The may want the loud, frat boy type. It's one reason I stay out of clubs. I like quiet, shy, artsy types, so I'm thinking museums, my art classes, parks, library, hmmm...maybe a nice little poetry reading. If you know your type, go places this type my like to go. Girls are everywhere!


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## Blue Bird (Jun 28, 2004)

Oh, I'll take a nice guy over a jerk any day!! Rudeness and a malicious personality will trump looks. As my mother would say, the way a person carries themselves can make them very ugly. Looks only will get you so far.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

I want the total package matty. I'm not expecting to date a model. I just want to find someone who is cute and nice.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

mbp86 said:


> I want the total package matty. I'm not expecting to date a model. I just want to find someone who is cute and nice.


My bad, all I have ever heard you talk about is how a girl looks or how attractive she is. But it is nice to know that you care about more then just a pretty face


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

matty said:


> My bad, all I have ever heard you talk about is how a girl looks or how attractive she is. But it is nice to know that you care about more then just a pretty face


Of course matty... do you expect me to date a pretty girl who is shallow, immature, full of herself, and has nothing in common with me?


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Umm, sorry but yes, its not at all uncommon. A lot of people care too much about physical appeal. I just assumed that when all you spoke about were looks.


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

Everyone, listen to Ospi and matty! :nw


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

correlation does not imply causality. 

implicating...

just because some nice guys don't always get what they want doesn't mean that being nice is the cause of relationship failures. life isn't fair, and the possibilities are endless as to why the date fell through- and it is a cop-out to conclude that because you are nice you are not meeting women. If you become a jerk you will not necessarily attract more girls.

I personally detest cocky guys, and I also dislike guys who act nice and then complain about girls not flocking to them because they're nice, because doesn't this say that you're only being nice to get something you want?


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

accepting myself said:


> What do you mean by "Because I'm really picky and I refuse to lower my standards.
> 
> I have seen a few posts of "nice guys " who can't get the girls but then they throw in the " I won't lower my standards " or something similiar so could it possibly mean that the standards are too high? I don't want to cause conflict but I have been dying to ask the nice guys this question.


I don't know about anybody else, but when I talk about this subject (I consider myself to be lumped into this group of guys), I'm frequently told that I should try to date a girl who isn't attractive (by society's standards) because it's more likely that she will say yes. Even beyond that, this would be "just for practice" to somehow build confidence.

If I were able to ask a girl out in the first place, I would absolutely refuse to date a girl "just for practice", no matter what she looks like. I think it's wrong and disrespectful. If I am ever able to date a girl, I would never go into a relationship with the line of thought that it's not going to last.

As for the first post, if that girl is telling you just how great you are, why isn't she chasing you? You should put her on the spot.



matty said:


> This seems to be a common thing. Everyone wants an attractive girl. How about meeting girls and getting to know girls. I am sure that everyone has something to offer and limiting yourself by looks is a huge mistake. Work out if you are attracted to the girl after you have spoken to them. You can actually be attracted to someone on more levels then looks.
> 
> Book-Cover-Judge ???


Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder. A girl I find attractive, another man might find ugly, and vice versa. I believe that physical attraction is necessary for any relationship to succeed.

Part of physical attraction for me, is health. No offence to any bigger ladies out there (I know some who are very nice people), but I could never be in a relationship with somebody who is overweight to the point where it affects their health. I'm trying to better myself health-wise, so I would expect the same of whoever I would be with.



matty said:


> Yes it does, but it is very possible to find someone physically attractive after you have got to know them a little better. Just because you dont find them physically attractive straight up does not mean you wont once you know them. I am not saying go for someone completely different to your type, but if all you are interested in is physical attraction then you will be missing out on other possibilites.
> 
> Think about it this way, you see your perfect girl physically, you meet and start talking, you find out that she has loose morals and whatever (completely different to your dream girl personality/ moral wise) Would you still be physically attracted? For me this is a big no. I would not be physically attracted to her once I got to know her.


But that's not a lack of physical attraction, it's not getting along with her on a personal level. The physical attributes that attracted her to you in the first place would still be there. You would just be blocking them because she didn't pass the test for you after physical attraction.

I also disagree with the notion that physical attraction can grow. If you're not physically attracted early on, you won't be later unless she does something to change to what you do find attractive.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Well I think it still stand, I am no longer physically attracted to them. I no longer view them as attractive and look at them a different way. Each person is unique and I no longer view that person as someone I am attracted to. Her looks my not have changed by how I see her has. 

Again, physical attraction can grow, your appeal to different looks can change. If I meet someone which I dont find physically attractive, I find that if we get long really well and get close, that what I find attractive changes. I find that unique look of hers very attractive.

Guess I am different.


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## BetaBoy90 (Jan 5, 2010)

The attraction game is a fickle process so just don't believe there aren't girls who won't find you attractive and date you just because you are nice (even saying this sentence just sounds so messed up).


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

One of my brothers (aged 30) seems the prototypical "nice guy" and has an (undiagnosed) anxiety disorder. He has most things going for him but the anxiety holds him back in most domains. He attracts the occasional woman but they treat him like a doormat. He cannot be assertive enough with them or maintain boundaries. All his girlfriends (about 2 in total since adulthood) make him physically ill with anxiety. I don't think he approaches women and he didn't have a relationship until his late twenties. His other siblings are nice too, but know, or have learnt, how to be assertive in addition to this (and we too have anxiety). Even if you find someone while still being "nice", lack of confidence or assertiveness will continue causing problems afterwards. People appreciate boundaries where you take in addition to give; if you don't reveal your wants and needs in standing up for yourself it indicates lack of self-respect and you're also concealing parts of yourself from others. This is from my experience, and people lost interest, and fast, before I developed in this area and they took advantage of this vulnerability.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't get what is so hard to understand. :stu


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Life isn't fair; dating isn't fair.


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## SOME (Jul 13, 2009)

Maybe the girls you date just don't like you. It has noting to do with you being nice or a jerk, just that they simply don't like you.:stu


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

SOME said:


> Maybe the girls you date just don't like you. It has noting to do with you being nice or a jerk, just that they simply don't like you.:stu


That could be true too. I can't speak for OP but I think that I need to act a different way to get women to want to date me.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Ospi said:


> Your lack of luck with girls has nothing to do with you being nice, it has to do with a lack of confidence with approaching girls and being assertive in that manner. I know this because I am EXACTLY the same as you and have been told what you have been over and over again.
> 
> The reason some girls seem to only date these guys who seemingly treat them like crap is because these guys are confident in themselves and they are a someone strong and protective which would be comforting to a lot of girls.
> 
> ...


Definitely true. Women who date the bad boys usually don't know what they want, and they're attracted by the confidence.

I wish I could be a confident guy, too, but instead I have to be the 'nice guy.'  Oh well...maybe someday, I'll meet a girl who doesn't want the confident jerk.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Nice Guys w/o confidence=FAIL

Jerks w/ confidence>Nice Guys w/o confidence.

Sums up thread.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

mbp86 said:


> I wish you would text her this. "If I'm such a great guy, why won't you date me?"
> 
> Her response: "I just like you as a friend."
> 
> You: "If you're really my friend, you'll help me get girls."


This is how it should have been written.

DO NOT limit yourself to the attractive women, just get some experience in just talking to women... the normal, average, women.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> Life isn't fair; dating isn't fair.


+10!


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

matty said:


> Again, physical attraction can grow, your appeal to different looks can change. If I meet someone which I dont find physically attractive, I find that if we get long really well and get close, that what I find attractive changes. I find that unique look of hers very attractive.
> 
> Guess I am different.


Maybe. I've met a few women who I do not find physically attractive, and I am able to communicate with them because I have no desire to be with them, and not once have I felt that changing even when I've gotten along with them.



iAmCodeMonkey said:


> DO NOT limit yourself to the attractive women, just get some experience in just talking to women... the normal, average, women.


ARGH! This is like banging my head against a brick wall! The only person who can decide who is and is not attractive is the person looking themselves!!!! You could see a girl walking down the street and think she's hot, while your friend walking beside you might think she's ugly!

You are basically suggesting that he should go after a girl he does not find attractive. That's a good way to stay unhappy.


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## Smallfry (Oct 11, 2004)

She is afterall only 20 so she still young and would not have the same dating objectives as say a 26 year old woman. Nice girls do want nice guys, bad boys are waste of time IMO


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

PGVan said:


> Maybe. I've met a few women who I do not find physically attractive, and I am able to communicate with them because I have no desire to be with them, and not once have I felt that changing even when I've gotten along with them.


Maybe we just approach things differently, my first thought isnt normally is she hot/ not. But I am talking about talking to people in general. You meet someone> talk and get to know them> wow, she is really cute. But by the sounds of it we are in two completely different places. I have very little focus on dating or finding someone. So I tend to meet people not pursue people.



PGVan said:


> ARGH! This is like banging my head against a brick wall! The only person who can decide who is and is not attractive is the person looking themselves!!!! You could see a girl walking down the street and think she's hot, while your friend walking beside you might think she's ugly!
> 
> You are basically suggesting that he should go after a girl he does not find attractive. That's a good way to stay unhappy.


The idea I got from the post was to talk to any girl, not to pick up some girl you are not attracted to but to gain experience talk and meeting girls. I would take this further and say, talk and meet anyone. Guys, girls, young, old. The things you will learn from that will be a lot more valuable then just talking to and approaching girls you find attractive.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

"your friend is too weak and egotistical to be straight with you and tell you like it is and let you in on her real thought so the way she compensates is by being a positively positive *** kissing bubble head."

The negative belief system about how things "really are" defends itself. For, if this friend is genuine in her words, reality is proven to beyond the scope of a limiting belief system.

"I hate that a lot of people do this to me, because I don't believe what she says about any girl is lucky to have me, I wish people ould not say these things, it gives me false hope."

Why does it give you false hope? Despite the need of a negative belief system about how the world apparently "is" to justify itself, we have no reason to doubt the genuine and sincere nature and intention of your friends words. Your friend may well feel and think exactly what has been spoken and mean it. Question is: why don't you? Why don't you believe that any girl would be lucky to have you? Because you are the one out there asking them to give things to you in terms of numbers, dates, relationships etc. What are you offering the girls? And is the validation coming from the woman or from the internal resources of the self?

I did a lot of work with sub modalities in my psychotherapy course and discovered I have a colour coding system for certain emotional states. Red holds as the colour for attraction and sexual confidence. But oh, how I have feared the red over the years. And worried about the red too. Am I ugly, what about the competition from other guys, will other guys be better looking and more attractive than me...should I say this or that...all because I fear the red. All because I wanted to retreat back into my comfort zone instead of allowing my desires and what's sexy about me to rise from where I buried it all those years ago.

Because what is sexy about you? What things have you lusted for and desired over the years? How comfortable are you feeling and experiencing such states? How comfortable are you being the master of your own sexual state when in the company of other people?

I've been playing with this a little recently and I've just got back from a cinema trip with a bunch of girls and on the way home, I turned to one of them and playfully joked around with her, all the time simply connecting myself with these certain states. And the indicators of interest (as certain people insist upon calling them) were there in abundance.

Of course there will always be people who, for whatever reason, are not open to such interactions and relationships. That is not a judgement on the self and this use of rejection as an excuse to attack the self has got to stop. But to stand as the self in front of someone you like, to reconnect with your passions, your desires, your sexual states and to hold the gaze of the other person whilst doing this and keep the abundance mindset, that's a powerful position to be in.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

PGVan said:


> You are basically suggesting that he should go after a girl he does not find attractive. That's a good way to stay unhappy.


No, I am most certainly not. Think harder, young grasshopper.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> "your friend is too weak and egotistical to be straight with you and tell you like it is and let you in on her real thought so the way she compensates is by being a positively positive *** kissing bubble head."
> 
> The negative belief system about how things "really are" defends itself. For, if this friend is genuine in her words, reality is proven to beyond the scope of a limiting belief system.
> 
> ...


It is powerful, and a well done post.


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## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

I don't know why people tell me to date someone I don't want to, I have a certain preference. I like girls that are educated, I like girls that are nice, I like girls that are pretty. Looks aren't everything, I know that, but I still have to be attracted to her. I just wish my friend would tell me whether or not I am shooting out of my league insted of telling me that any girl would be lucky to have me. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this thread, but I still look for answers in this one place I trust the most. I have been led to believe all these things about myself that are not true, an I hate when people do that to me. My cousin once told me that I am as goodlooking as he is, but it's bs, because he is the best looking guy I know and so many girls think he is incredibly attractive. I just don't like what has been happening in my life recently. Sorry about my rant, I am just fed up with life lately.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

matty said:


> Maybe we just approach things differently, my first thought isnt normally is she hot/ not. But I am talking about talking to people in general. You meet someone> talk and get to know them> wow, she is really cute. But by the sounds of it we are in two completely different places. I have very little focus on dating or finding someone. So I tend to meet people not pursue people.


In my opinion it should be you meet someone> talk and get to know her > wow, she's really smart. How does it make her physical appearance look better to you?

Physical appearance and personality are two different things. If you like one and not the other, I don't see how a relationship could work. It's when you like both those attributes that something is possible. You can learn to like somebody on a personality level, but on a physical level, if she's not what you like, then you're settling rather than learning to like in my opinion.



matty said:


> The idea I got from the post was to talk to any girl, not to pick up some girl you are not attracted to but to gain experience talk and meeting girls. I would take this further and say, talk and meet anyone. Guys, girls, young, old. The things you will learn from that will be a lot more valuable then just talking to and approaching girls you find attractive.


The quote was "Do not limit yourself to the attractive women". If you're trying to find a relationship, why would you bother with a woman you don't find attractive?


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

PGVan said:


> In my opinion it should be you meet someone> talk and get to know her > wow, she's really smart. How does it make her physical appearance look better to you?


There is a lot more to someones physical appearance then just a snapshot of how they look, finer detail and expressions. I never meant it as to go for someone completely against your type. I just get the impression that people dismiss people way too early. Only want to talk to people if they are a 100% possible mate looks wise. I bet these nice guys wish some attractive woman would give them the time of day to get to know them. But why should they. Those nice guys dont do it. 


PGVan said:


> Physical appearance and personality are two different things. If you like one and not the other, I don't see how a relationship could work. It's when you like both those attributes that something is possible. You can learn to like somebody on a personality level, but on a physical level, if she's not what you like, then you're settling rather than learning to like in my opinion.


I agree with what is highlighted the rest I dont, If you dont have chemistry or like her personality then that isnt going to change either. At the end of the day you are expecting her to change or your thoughts to change.



PGVan said:


> The quote was "Do not limit yourself to the attractive women". If you're trying to find a relationship, why would you bother with a woman you don't find attractive?


I guess in reality my thoughts probably arent valid because I am not trying to find a relationship. I dont always pay attention to someones looks before or once we talk, and if I did it would only be her in the exact moment. Too little to judge if I like her physically. If she is my general type then I may find that she is very attractive the more time I spend with her.

Also I would believe that talking to girls you are not interested in physically would do you less harm then avoiding all girls apart from the very attractive ones (all subjective). You dont have to date every girl you talk to and I think making a friend could work in your favor. I talk to girls, and guys. I am not gay and I have no idea if I am physically attracted to half the girls I talk to. I dont think about it. But if I were looking I would have a lot more avenues then cold approaching strangers. So why would you talk to someone you are not physically attracted to? Because they are people too. You dont have to marry them.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

matty said:


> Also I would believe that talking to girls you are not interested in physically would do you less harm then avoiding all girls apart from the very attractive ones (all subjective). You dont have to date every girl you talk to and I think making a friend could work in your favor. I talk to girls, and guys. I am not gay and I have no idea if I am physically attracted to half the girls I talk to. I dont think about it. But if I were looking I would have a lot more avenues then cold approaching strangers. So why would you talk to someone you are not physically attracted to? Because they are people too. You dont have to marry them.


I never said I don't talk to women I don't find attractive. As I said before, I know some women I don't like physically, and they are nice people, but would I date them? No. My problem is that women I don't find attractive are the only women I don't talk to because of my anxieties of communicating with women I do find attractive. Talking to women I don't find physically attractive does nothing to help me talk to women I do find physically attractive.

Not knowing whether or not you are physically attracted to a girl when you are talking to her (thus looking at her) is what I just don't understand. Physical attraction is an instinct. It's not something one should need to think about. You're either attracted or you're not.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

I am approaching my issues from a fix the greater issue point of view. I just think that dating is more complicated sa wise then it seems and that is why I am staying out of relationships and getting to a point where I am happy with where I am at in general. 

As for physical attraction. In the past I have work side by side with a girl for 6 months. Day in day out. Thought nothing of her, other then a work colleague. Then I started to notice things and realised that she was very attractive. I looked her in the face day in day out and saw nothing. Didnt mean that I didnt find her physically attract, just meant I didnt look at her in that way. 

Nothing is ever black and white. I cant see how you can sum up everyone in a split second and that is that. Must take some thought since everyone is unique, and attraction can vary. I need to tinker with my instinct because it isnt working properly.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

I don't "sum women up" in a few seconds. I just know whether or not she is physically attractive to me in a few seconds. Physical attraction is an instinct based on what you see and nothing else. It's not something that a person should have to analyze for some time like you may have to do on an emotional level if you are trying to get to know somebody personally.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

PGVan said:


> I don't "sum women up" in a few seconds. I just know whether or not she is physically attractive to me in a few seconds. Attraction is an instinct, not something that a person should have to analyze for some time.


Then what do you do with that information? maybe I just do it subconsciously and dont really pay attention until think about it. I do know that just about every girl I have dated has been olive skin, dark hair and dark eyes. Yet I also find lots of other combinations attractive but that is my history. I believe that is just a subconscious wiring I have.

Anyway, I am sure our discussion has gone in circles. I know my original comments didnt come across as I originally had meant. At the end of the day we all work differently. Maybe you pay more attention then I do. I dont know, all that matters is that what works for you works, and what works for me works. You have opened my eyes to another way.


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## toughcookie (Jul 21, 2010)

The thing that I find most attractive in a guy is that he _is_ nice, but (forgive the phrase) he still has b*lls! Basically, when a guy is really nice but won't put up with crap and will stand up for what he believes in, thats the definite turn on.

I don't get how girls go for jerks, really. An equally big turnoff for me is a guy who is nice but won't stick up for me. My boyfriend tends not to stick up for me when it is called for.. 

Anyway, those are my two cents. I hope it helps!


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

toughcookie said:


> The thing that I find most attractive in a guy is that he _is_ nice, but (forgive the phrase) he still has b*lls!


What you have to realize is that a lot of guys here basically _don't_ have balls, and there's only so much they can do about it. It is an SA site, after all.

I'm not faulting you for your preference at all, but it's always funny when girls come into these threads and act like we just need to be enlightened as to what you really want. We know, we get it. That's just not who we are. Maybe it's just not who your bf is, either, and you'll have to make a choice at some point as to whether that's acceptable or not.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nice guys do have a tough side but they don't show it.


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## 1applehearts1 (Jan 7, 2010)

YES 

being a nice guy pays off TREMENDOUSLY in my book

people will have more respect for you if you arent a jerk

one of the MAIN qualities i look for in a man is a sweet, compassionate, nice MAN

too many guys are arrogant jerks and its such a turn off, who wants to be around a guy like that? some girls like it - theyre nuts in my opinion

keep being your nice self, hopefully a decent girl will come along and appreciate it


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I could always use some bigger balls — my own balls...:teeth


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

VanDamMan said:


> Nice Guys w/o confidence=FAIL


Yeah, confidence is what women want to see and also what guys with SA tend to severely lack.

Human males, like males of any other species, have to do battle for the girl. Rams smash their heads together to see who gets the prettiest doe. A ram with SA would be standing on the sidelines as the confident rams butt heads over the pretty does.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

UltraShy said:


> Yeah, confidence is what women want to see and also what guys with SA tend to severely lack.
> 
> Human males, like males of any other species, have to do battle for the girl. Rams smash their heads together to see who gets the prettiest doe. A ram with SA would be standing on the sidelines as the confident rams butt heads over the pretty does.


Unfortunately, too true.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

"Yeah, confidence is what women want to see and also what guys with SA tend to severely lack."

Are you confident about that? To be honest, people with SA can be very confident indeed. Confident about not being confident, confident about being without this or that social skill, confident about their insecurities and self doubts, confident that this or that person thinks this or that about them.

"Human males, like males of any other species, have to do battle for the girl. Rams smash their heads together to see who gets the prettiest doe. A ram with SA would be standing on the sidelines as the confident rams butt heads over the pretty does."

Confident rams? Which ones would those be then? Because the ram with SA would have to be confident about his so called "lacking of confidence" in order to remain on the sidelines. If he wasn't confident about his apparent lack then he would assume that he was one of the confident rams and not stand on the sidelines. So, really, it's not that simple.

Oh, and the real world isn't high school. I can only speak as one man but the only time I've competed with other men for the so called "prettiest woman" (a fact that is difficult to agree on amongst two men never mind a group of men) was when I was trying to prove something to the people who bullied me. When I lost sight of finding someone who was right for me and decided I had to engage into the sport beloved of pick up artists around the world: "shouting about how much I get laid and insisting that the measure of myself as a man was somehow related to how many women I'd slept with".

People with SA have "balls". They can and do stand up for themselves. They just spend a lot of time standing up for their so called faults, flaws and weaknesses. They stand up for the self imposed guidelines for making themselves feel bad about themselves. They stand up for how they feel they are not good enough. All of this takes confidence and strength.

So, if women want confidence, take some the confidence in negative things and move it to positive things and use it to go talk to some people. It's not a cure all, it's not going to save you from anxiety necessarily but it is a positive way forward.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> Yeah, confidence is what women want to see and also what guys with SA tend to severely lack.
> 
> Human males, like males of any other species, have to do battle for the girl. Rams smash their heads together to see who gets the prettiest doe. A ram with SA would be standing on the sidelines as the confident rams butt heads over the pretty does.


True. I think the strongest male(in all aspects) is hardwired into most women as the most attractive. Basic evolution. I really don't blame women. Guys think the same way.

It is irritating though when women profess to like the "nice guy" when reality is different(an exception of course to the few women that actually do like nice guys).


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## so_so_shy (Sep 5, 2005)

Why don't you ask Steph out?


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## toughcookie (Jul 21, 2010)

anomalous said:


> What you have to realize is that a lot of guys here basically _don't_ have balls, and there's only so much they can do about it. It is an SA site, after all.
> 
> I'm not faulting you for your preference at all, but it's always funny when girls come into these threads and act like we just need to be enlightened as to what you really want. We know, we get it. That's just not who we are. Maybe it's just not who your bf is, either, and you'll have to make a choice at some point as to whether that's acceptable or not.


1) When I said "have balls", I meant "confidence" (which is pretty much the same thing that several others stated, so I dont know why youre picking on me)

2) I did not say that anyone here needs to be that way. Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of the post. I basically thought I was answering a query of what girls want. I read something about how girls like bad boy types so I was trying to let them know that there are girls out there who *do* like nice guys for sure, but it's the confidence that we like. Its the same with guys liking girls. Anyway I had only good intentions and you really misunderstood me and jumped to conclusions.

Please leave me alone now.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

lol.

Well, not to drag this on or anything, but I do think you can approach and meet women with or without confidence. Ever hear of 'feel the fear and do it anyway?' Yeah.


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## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

so_so_shy said:


> Why don't you ask Steph out?


She was my cousin's girlfriend when we were last talking. A couple nights ago my cousin proposed to her. She is now engaged to what I heard some people call "the best looking guy they have ever seen." The man is a walking chick magnet and its hard to stand against him. Besides me and Steph are friends. I love her as friend and I trust her with most of my personal secrets. She is gorgeous, nice, and stands up for herself more than any girl I ever met  She loves my cousin, even though he is a jackass at times, and I am happy for the both of them. This proposal thing has me thinking a lot about marriage recently and my mom asked me when I was going to find a girl to get married. Lololololol. i think one of the raesons why I have my insecurities is because I know so many goodlooking people in my life from friends to family that it has me questioning how I look compared to them.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

even confident people get anxious or panic attacks. I dont think its just confidence issues.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

toughcookie said:


> 1) When I said "have balls", I meant "confidence" (which is pretty much the same thing that several others stated, so I dont know why youre picking on me)
> 
> 2) I did not say that anyone here needs to be that way. Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of the post. I basically thought I was answering a query of what girls want. I read something about how girls like bad boy types so I was trying to let them know that there are girls out there who *do* like nice guys for sure, but it's the confidence that we like. Its the same with guys liking girls. Anyway I had only good intentions and you really misunderstood me and jumped to conclusions.
> 
> Please leave me alone now.


Uh... I wasn't attacking you at all, which I thought I made clear. Oversensitivity abounds on SAS.

1) By "balls," I meant "confidence" as well. lol

2) Maybe I was reading a bit too much into your first post on this point, and I apologize for that. You're right; you never suggested anyone "should" become a certain way, and I sort of inferred it without justification. I think I released my built-up frustration WRT numerous SAS girls who *have* suggested we SAS men need "confidence" to be attractive, when we're all on a board specifically for people who lack confidence.

3) As for my comment about your relationship, that may have been uncalled for as well, but hopefully you've communicated your feelings on this matter with your bf if it's bothering you. I suppose I'm a bit sensitive to the matter of being in a relationship with a girl who's going behind your back talking about how dissatisfied she is with certain aspects of your relationship, due to past experience.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

matty said:


> Then what do you do with that information?


What information? Physical attraction is just that. Nothing more, nothing less. Only when combined with an emotional connection is the total attraction to the girl worth pursuing.... if only I had the ability to get to the point where I would know whether or not I would like to pursue.


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## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

No it doesn't mean anything without confidence. (having balls as some of you put it)


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## Relaxation (Jul 12, 2010)

When someone says you are "nice", that just means they think you are boring.

If your female friend thinks you're such a great guy, why doesn't she want to go out with you?


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## SOME (Jul 13, 2009)

When I hear someone say "nice guy" the first thing that pops into my head is he's a puss*.


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

niceness rules.



Relaxation said:


> If your female friend thinks you're such a great guy, why doesn't she want to go out with you?


because he genuinely is a great guy but not what she's looking for? it's not a huge stretch of the imagination.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

fingertips said:


> because he genuinely is a great guy but not what she's looking for? it's not a huge stretch of the imagination.


No, but it is also very commonly used by women to let a guy down "gently". Too common to think that your assertion might be the case.


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

fingertips said:


> niceness rules.
> 
> because he genuinely is a great guy but not what she's looking for? it's not a huge stretch of the imagination.


Yeah, that's exactly what it is. How it's so hard to understand I'll never know. :no


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

fingertips said:


> niceness rules.
> 
> because he genuinely is a great guy but not what she's looking for? it's not a huge stretch of the imagination.





strawberryjulius said:


> Yeah, that's exactly what it is. How it's so hard to understand I'll never know. :no


It _*is*_ a contradiction. If I think a woman is genuinely great, I would want to go out with her. If I discover that she is very prudish. Then obviously she is not as great as I thought she was.

There is no such thing as "a great guy, but just not what she is looking for" .... what it really means is : here is a man that does not spark her interest/fancy.

NO mixing of words please. You can pour as much sugar into a tar pit as you want, it is still a tar pit.


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## emptybottle2 (Jan 18, 2009)

fingertips said:


> because he genuinely is a great guy but not what she's looking for? it's not a huge stretch of the imagination.


Yes. If he expects to be rewarded with dates and sex for being nice, then it wouldn't make him a genuinely great guy. It's manipulative.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

"It _*is*_ a contradiction. If I think a woman is genuinely great, I would want to go out with her. If I discover that she is very prudish. Then obviously she is not as great as I thought she was.

There is no such thing as "a great guy, but just not what she is looking for" .... what it really means is : here is a man that does not spark her interest/fancy."

This is the defence of a negative belief system through mass assumption and generalisation. A woman is more than capable of thinking that a guy is a great guy but not what she is looking for.

"NO mixing of words please. You can pour as much sugar into a tar pit as you want, it is still a tar pit. "

Rough translation: "Defence of a negative belief system until reality is affirmed to be the horrible thing it is perceived to be through the filters governed and enforced by the negative belief system".

Fact of the matter: "nice guy" will mean lots of different things to lots of different people. So you're not going to really know what a woman means when she says good guy, great guy, nice guy, not what I'm looking for, what I'm looking for etc. The reading of massive loads of pick up garbage on the net and the massive, sweeping assumption that "nice guy" is somehow an insult (automatically) has led a lot of people to develop certain belief systems.

If a woman happens to want to be with a "nice, genuine guy" then her calling a guy that is not an insult but a compliment. Relative, subjective, fluid, moving. Now, yes, her wants may change and be vulnerable to a whole host of other things too and I know people on here want the one size fits all forumla for dating where they have to be this that and the other thing and make sure women view them as this and that....but it's a fluid, vulnerable, powerful thing which is beyond the scope of many a negative belief system about the self and about life.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

wishful thinking


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

What women say and mean are always two different things.

examples:

"You're such a nice guy."
=
"You're a loser."

"You're cute."
=
"You're not that good looking."


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## emptybottle2 (Jan 18, 2009)

mbp86 said:


> What women say and mean are always two different things.
> 
> examples:
> 
> ...


Translation: Women who say I'm nice/cute don't want to date/have sex with me = I'm a loser/not that good-looking

Just because they won't sleep with you doesn't mean they they don't genuinely think you're nice and cute.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

Classic example:

"I want to date a nice guy"
=
"I'm going to date a jerk who treats me poorly."


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## LostPancake (Apr 8, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> Fact of the matter: "nice guy" will mean lots of different things to lots of different people. So you're not going to really know what a woman means when she says good guy, great guy, nice guy, not what I'm looking for, what I'm looking for etc. The reading of massive loads of pick up garbage on the net and the massive, sweeping assumption that "nice guy" is somehow an insult (automatically) has led a lot of people to develop certain belief systems.


"Nice guy" is generally used to let someone down easily, so it does have a negative connotation. It's sort of a euphemism for a doormat.

And it's kind of rude to say people have gotten the idea from reading massive loads of pick up garbage - it's was there long before the all the pick up **** came about.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

If the adjective can be used for female friends as well, than you are a female friend in their eyes.


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> If the adjective can be used for female friends as well, than you are a female friend in their eyes.


or... just a friend.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

""Nice guy" is generally used to let someone down easily, so it does have a negative connotation. It's sort of a euphemism for a doormat. "

Only within the context of a certain belief system. A belief system that refuses to acknowledge or trust that sometimes, when someone says "you're a nice guy" , they actually mean what they say. Yes, some people may mean it in a negative way or as a way of "letting someone down gently" but it certainly isn't a general thing.

"And it's kind of rude to say people have gotten the idea from reading massive loads of pick up garbage - it's was there long before the all the pick up **** came about."

It's not rude at all to say that. Not everyone got the idea from pick up books but a lot pick up books and stuff on the net does perpetuate the idea that "nice guy" can and only does mean one particular thing. That "nice guy" automatically has a negative connotation and that is automatically means "doormat".

Maybe the idea was there before the pick up stuff. But that's the point. It's an idea. An opinion. A notion. Not necessarily a fact that holds.

"What women say and mean are always two different things.

examples:

"You're such a nice guy."
=
"You're a loser."

So, every single woman on the face of the planet means "you're a loser" when she says that someone is a "nice guy". Because women don't want someone who happens to be a good guy? They can't be telling the truth. Some of them may well mean that the person is, in their eyes, a loser. But some may well not mean it like that.

This is why I talk of the pick up stuff. Because it's often there that people get this idea that women always mean this, that and the other thing when they say something. Truth is: women are individuals and you've probably not got much of an idea (beyond your own observations, interpretations, assumptions and placing of meaning) what she means by anything.

"You're cute."
=
"You're not that good looking."

Once again, the assumption is that these comments from women are not genuine and are not good things and are not meant.

Some women say what they don't mean. Some women say what they mean and then they don't think it after a while of time has passed. It's a fluid, moving thing. But some of the time. what some women actually mean by what they say may well not chime with the negative belief systems in existence. But of course, such things have to be interpreted as such for the "reality" created by the negative belief system to hold and be affirmed back to the believer.

"Classic example:

"I want to date a nice guy"
=
"I'm going to date a jerk who treats me poorly.""

This one is usually motivated by rejection. A guy gets rejected, assumes he's a "nice guy", assumes the rejection was because he was "too nice" and then makes the assumption that the guy she ends up dating is a "jerk who will treat her poorly" and she goes for those type of guys.

All assumptions. Do some women like so called "bad boys", yes. There is a certain appeal. But then again,. what is and what is not a "bad boy" is relative, subjective, fluid and moving.

To automatically assume that the woman is not being genuine in what she says is taking a ridiculous amount of assumed authority over her reality and her right to decide for herself what she does and does not actually want. In that instance. she may well want or be attracted to a "nice guy". She may want that. She may not. What we want changes and evolves and moves. It's a process. Right now, I seem to be attracted to a whole host of very different women for various different reasons as to varying degrees.


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## jlotz123 (Dec 11, 2009)

toughcookie said:


> An equally big turnoff for me is a guy who is nice but won't stick up for me. My boyfriend tends not to stick up for me when it is called for..


What exactly do you mean by "won't stick up for me..."

Sticking up for what exactly? In what scenarios?


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

So with the course that this thread has taken I can only assume that your friend thinks your a great guy, but doesnt find you physically appealing. So there for no physical attraction then no interest in you.

On the same note, nice but dont want to date you means, you a nice guy but lack, physical or emotional appeal, or chuck in any other type.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

can some one please explain to me which I am
a nice guy, or a jerk
because I am a schizo and sometimes I'm really nice to people, but at other times I become rude and hating everyone, including girls
am I like a weird hybrid, a nice jerk ?
or maybe schizos are just below that of a human being and can't really fall into either of these categories ?


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

^ its normal personality to have different sides. listen to a DMX album - songs about god, spreading the msg of jesus through words, being good, then songs about hes the toughest mufca out there and he'll beat the sh outta you or anyone who disagrees. i think we're all like that


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

Being a nice guy means you're only destined for friendship.


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## Deathinmusic (Jun 5, 2009)

I have figured out that I am a very NICE guy. For anyone who doesn't know, nice guy is a euphemism for boring, insecure and not fun or exciting. Girls want fun and exciting. Not to mention confident. At least a little bit exciting. Someone who makes them feel comfortable and protected while bringing a little bit of (fun and exciting) danger into their lives as well. I think I could be that way if I lost my inhibitions and fears. Long road ahead of me.......


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Deathinmusic said:


> I have figured out that I am a very NICE guy. For anyone who doesn't know, nice guy is a euphemism for boring, insecure and not fun or exciting. Girls want fun and exciting. Not to mention confident. I think I could be that way if I lost my inhibitions and fears. Long road ahead of me.......


Oh gosh, I once told someone who I liked that he was nice and I enjoyed his company. Was that an insult? I didn't mean it that way. He most certainly was not boring.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

I think girls want guys who are nice...but who are also nice to themselves. That means a little self-confidence, at least. Most of us here severely lack self-respect and that's usually important to girls, and even guys.


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## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

BetaBoy90 said:


> The attraction game is a fickle process *so just don't believe there aren't girls who won't find you attractive* and date you just because you are nice (even saying this sentence just sounds so messed up).


Wait, what? :con


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## Deathinmusic (Jun 5, 2009)

sarafinanickelbocker said:


> Oh gosh, I once told someone who I liked that he was nice and I enjoyed his company. Was that an insult? I didn't mean it that way. He most certainly was not boring.


Lol, no, that's different. Someone can be nice and still exciting and confident. I'm sure there are a lot of guys like that. This is just an observation I have made. When guys complain about how they are such "nice guys" but get no attention from females, I don't think the reason is that girls don't like "nice", as in someone kind who who treats them well. I think it's that the guys are too insecure and don't know how to assert themselves, don't know what to say etc. I also don't think that all those "***hole" guys who do know how to get girls are always ***holes, maybe they are just confident and go after what they want while still being plenty nice enough. It's easy to call someone an ***hole when you are jealous of their success.


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## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

VanDamMan said:


> Nice Guys w/o confidence=FAIL
> 
> Jerks w/ confidence>Nice Guys w/o confidence.
> 
> Sums up thread.


What is this confidence you speak of?
Can I buy it on eBay?


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Deathinmusic said:


> Lol, no, that's different. Someone can be nice and still exciting and confident. I'm sure there are a lot of guys like that. This is just an observation I have made. When guys complain about how they are such "nice guys" but get no attention from females, I don't think the reason is that girls don't like "nice", as in someone kind who who treats them well. *I think it's that the guys are too insecure and don't know how to assert themselves, don't know what to say etc.* I also don't think that all those "***hole" guys who do know how to get girls are always ***holes, maybe they are just confident and go after what they want while still being plenty nice enough. *It's easy to call someone an ***hole when you are jealous of their success.*


+1 :yes


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Deathinmusic said:


> Lol, no, that's different. Someone can be nice and still exciting and confident. I'm sure there are a lot of guys like that. This is just an observation I have made. When guys complain about how they are such "nice guys" but get no attention from females, I don't think the reason is that girls don't like "nice", as in someone kind who who treats them well. I think it's that the guys are too insecure and don't know how to assert themselves, don't know what to say etc. I also don't think that all those "***hole" guys who do know how to get girls are always ***holes, maybe they are just confident and go after what they want while still being plenty nice enough. It's easy to call someone an ***hole when you are jealous of their success.


Yeah, I think you're right, but I still wonder if I shouldn't call a guy nice. He might take it the wrong way. :|

Also, does it seem that *sometimes *men are attracted to mean women? You know, the really irritable kind you have to walk on eggshells around and who must have her way or else you get yelled at. I think there are guys that like "nice" women, but there seems to be an attraction out there to b*****s as well.


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## Deathinmusic (Jun 5, 2009)

sarafinanickelbocker said:


> Yeah, I think you're right, but I still wonder if I shouldn't call a guy nice. He might take it the wrong way. :|
> 
> Also, does it seem that *sometimes *men are attracted to mean women? You know, the really irritable kind you have to walk on eggshells around and who must have her way or else you get yelled at. I think there are guys that like "nice" women, but there seems to be an attraction out there to b*****s as well.


I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't feel bad if a girl called me nice. I'm sure I could figure out whether they liked me or not from other things.

As to your other question, I wouldn't know. I know I am not attracted to a person like that. I'm sure some are.


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Deathinmusic said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't feel bad if a girl called me nice. I'm sure I could figure out whether they liked me or not from other things.
> 
> As to your other question, I wouldn't know. I know I am not attracted to a person like that. I'm sure some are.


Thanks, that makes me feel better.

As to my question...I'm just puting it out there. It's not my religion or anything. I do think some men like nice women.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

Lol. I used to get on really well with a few of my friends exes. I didn't particularly fancy any of them or hold secret crushes. I just used to watch him pull them because he was the loud confident jerk type and they'd hate each other within a couple of weeks. I'd talk to them and we'd get on well, whilst he would throw shouting and angry fits...yes that's what he was like, treat them like crap, bizarre arguments. Unfair really, if people would wait and see what people are like in more detail first the quiet loser types might get more girlfriends. Yes I do hold resentment towards him for always being the one getting the girl because of his outgoingness and then treating them like **** and then being in the position myself where I can't then do anything because of friend's ex's rules.

so, we get to be nice guys and watch our loud jerk friends basque in glory.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

mbp86 said:


> Being a nice guy means you're only destined for friendship.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

Is the friend zone happen among gays too ?


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

sarafinanickelbocker said:


> Thanks, that makes me feel better.
> 
> As to my question...I'm just puting it out there. It's not my religion or anything. I do think some men like nice women.


Some? ALL men like nice women! (unless the men are not sane)


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

counterfeit self said:


> Some? ALL men like nice women! (unless the men are not sane)


If I like bad girls am I insane ?


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

anymouse said:


> ^ no, it means you're becoming one of the majority. *ushers in angelina jolie and the kardashians*


and what actually makes them so bad ?


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## Stilla (May 13, 2009)

I adore nice guys. But maybe my definition of a nice guy is different than others.


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## Canguy (Jul 19, 2010)

*Read this!!!*

Ill tell you this, girls like nice guys, but they like guys who are in control. If your too nice, oh lemme do this for you, and always smiling and laughing etc... girls dont like that, they do like it, but they like it as in being just friends and nothing more.

Trust me, girls like guys who have control, someone that can protect them, not some over kind nice guy. These are facts of life which I experienced in my life. Even when i used to be over nice to this slighty older lady, she told me you gotta be more of a man, and not always standing and smiling there lolzz.

^^true bloody story. But yea man, being kind and nice is Always a good thing, but dont over do it, and esp when it comes to girls, be more in control and act like a "man", cuz girls dig that.

Cheers.


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Canguy said:


> *Read this!!!*
> 
> Ill tell you this, girls like nice guys, but they like guys who are in control. If your too nice, oh lemme do this for you, and always smiling and laughing etc... girls dont like that, they do like it, but they like it as in being just friends and nothing more.
> 
> ...


Don't want to be babied, but don't want to be controlled either. uke


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

> *Does being a nice guy mean anything?*


Yep, as in those are the only guys I'll date! :b


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Even social anxiety girls would pick an alpha male thug over a shy inexperienced loner social anxiety guy. Why would they put in the effort to get the nice guy out of his shell when they can go with the alpha thug?


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## Canguy (Jul 19, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> Even social anxiety girls would pick an alpha male thug over a shy inexperienced loner social anxiety guy. Why would they put in the effort to get the nice guy out of his shell when they can go with the alpha thug?


Exactlyy...I mean there are some girls that actually do like 'nice' guys, but its always better to man up.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

removed
http://regretfulmorning.com/2010/02/10-accurate-friend-zone-rage-comics-for-v-day/


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

My boyfriend is an alpha-male-thug thing, apparently...


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Canguy said:


> Exactlyy...I mean there are some girls that actually do like 'nice' guys, but its always better to man up.


Notice how the only place you hear a girl say she wants a nice guy over a thug is on the internet? lol. These "rare breed" girls don't exist in the real world. They get snatched up quickly.

They don't have to put in any effort anyways, guys come TO THEM. Endless supply.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

Since I started expressing myself by flipping out in front of partners, banging my head, swearing, and pulling my hair, it seems I became irresistible. :roll :teeth


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

nice guys just get a bad rep because most of them HAVE to be nice to compensate for their less than average looks, and the "bad boy" type can afford to be a jerk because what it really comes down to is if the girl is attracted to him physically. Now an attractive nice guy on the other hand...


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

"Even social anxiety girls would pick an alpha male thug over a shy inexperienced loner social anxiety guy. Why would they put in the effort to get the nice guy out of his shell when they can go with the alpha thug?"

Notice the linking that is going on here: Alpha male= thug. But why would an alpha male need to be a thug? Then there's the other linking: shy/inexperienced/loner/social anxiety guy. Linking of assumptions and the assumptions of "static" categories of or ideas about people. Plus, on this forum, one always has to keep in mind that every single thing that doesn't work out or goes "wrong" in the individual's world is automatically the fault of the individual. Or so the belief system goes. This person rejected me. Oh, it's because I'm too nice. I got in the friend zone (what a nonsense terms that is) with this particular woman because I'm too nice. Never mind the other factors that may well have determined what happened, what she decided, what the individual decided etc. The human loves reasons and the SA human loves reasons that make everything their fault.

If we must talk in "statics", fine. The jerk is not an alpha male. The bully is not an alpha male. Is the alpha male alpha because he treats women like crap. No. There's a sense of security and being centred within the self.

Take a look at every single guy you consider to be an "alpha male". Just look at them and think about this: at some point in their lives, they cried. At some point in their lives, they were terrified. At some time in their lives, they got so wasted that they threw up. At some time in their life they got rejected. They got hurt. They felt pain. They lost a loved one. They may even had had a mental illness or disorder.

So, how close to or how like you are they? And given that, could you too be an alpha male?

At some point, the jerks did this thing where they linked "nice" to "doormat". They tried it with the words "good guy" but couldn't do it so they had to change it to "nice" instead to make it work. A good guy is not necessarily a doormat.


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## Canguy (Jul 19, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> Notice how the only place you hear a girl say she wants a nice guy over a thug is on the internet? lol. These "rare breed" girls don't exist in the real world. They get snatched up quickly.
> 
> They don't have to put in any effort anyways, guys come TO THEM. Endless supply.


Man, I couldnt agree with you more. I almost wanna reach over and give you a hug bro, but in a manly way  lol jks jks


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## Canguy (Jul 19, 2010)

calichick said:


> nice guys just get a bad rep because most of them HAVE to be nice to compensate for their less than average looks, and the "bad boy" type can afford to be a jerk because what it really comes down to is if the girl is attracted to him physically. Now an attractive nice guy on the other hand...


Yes, you guys are really gettting the point here. And its a fact, it may be sad, but its the truth.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

I'm sick of guys on here complaining about not getting women (myself included). If your approach isn't working, just change it. If you think you're too boring for women, get some hobbies. If you're too shy, make it a habit of talking to people (take baby steps).


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

If a guy starts acting like a **** I immediately find him repulsive. Some guys get this complex, meaning I call a guy sweet as a genuine compliment and because I find it attractive and he gets pissy and offended. You sound like you do have alot to offer and what she said isn't bull**** but I know it feels it because you need proof not words. But stick at it until you get that proof if that's what you need. By the way you're genuinely a good looking guy so you don't even need to get a complex about attractive guys because you're one of them yourself.


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

I love smart nice guys. Maybe the girls aren't chasing after you because I know a lot of girls would rather be chased than do the chasing (as annoying as it may sound to you, I'm guilty of being one of those.) That doesn't necessarily mean they don't find you attractive. I for one, would not even waste a second spending time with a jerk, that is, a guy that is visibly disrespectful, bad mannered, selfish, careless, and uses vulgar language. I see no point in it. I can't just date someone on looks alone (though they do matter.) I need to like who he is on the inside as well, to be fully attracted. 

Of course being a good person means something, far more than being a d-bag, so I really don't understand why you would even question that. True, life is not fair, and just because someone is "nice" does not mean they will come up lucky in all aspects of life. Some people just get lucky, whether they are nice or not (as you see with so called jerks that get loads of dates). People need to get the idea out of their head that there must be something "wrong" with them just because they don't happen to instantly attract the "right" kind of attention to themselves. 

Don't give up hope because your life is not over by a long shot, at least I don't think, and there are other nice people with plenty of good things to offer, who are also in the same boat as you.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

calichick said:


> nice guys just get a bad rep because most of them HAVE to be nice to compensate for their less than average looks, and the "bad boy" type can afford to be a jerk because what it really comes down to is if the girl is attracted to him physically. Now an attractive nice guy on the other hand...


Now we're getting somewhere.

But I still can't fully agree. Your last sentence is what bothers me. In my personal experience, limited as it may be in the scheme of the world, physically attractive "jerks" tend to rake in a lot more interested women than equally-attractive "nice guys." Both of those categories being subject to my own judgment, of course.

However, I don't want to detract from the excellent observation you made, because I think there's a lot of truth to it. I know it applies to me, at least.


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## Xephere (Jul 29, 2009)

I am always nice, compassionate, and friendly, and the only thing I've gotten in return is s**t. I'm beginning to think that there is no place in the world for nice people. It just seems like the douchebags always get everything they ever wanted. The biggest a**holes are always the ones that are popular with girls, get undeserved scholarships to good schools, and get the "people caring for others award" in elementary school, even though they were the schools worst bullies. 

They always say that "nice guys finish last" and that is true. I think it is actually the weakest quality because it really doesn't get you that far. If this were the bachelorette, she would care about his looks, what he does for a living, what kind of car he drives, what school he went to. Things like that. If there is a really nice guy who has a crappy job, crappy car and didn't finish college, but is still intelligent, but not so good looking, she will just push him aside and go for the ultimate prick who is a CEO that drives a Mercedes and only got into a good college because his extremely rich parents bribed the school. He is really arrogant, obnoxious, loud, and is not very bright or but is extremely wealthy and attractive. He's the one that gets the bachelorette.

Even though I like the thought of being a nice, thoughtful, compassionate person, it just makes me upset that it doesn't really get you anywhere. It's just not a quality that people really care about.


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## ctrlaltdelete (May 13, 2010)

Of course women are attracted to nice guys. You act as if all women(only some of them) are masochists who enjoy being mistreated and/or treated to a verbal lashing. I think these "nice" guys are confusing confidence with callousness. Being confident and nice are not mutually exclusive. I'm sure most(not all) women prefer a man who is at least somewhat sure of himself. I don't think this means you must exude a sense of superiority, but it does mean that you don't get to be a pushover who bends or breaks on a whim.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

ctrlaltdelete said:


> Of course women are attracted to nice guys. You act as if all women(only some of them) are masochists who enjoy being mistreated and/or treated to a verbal lashing. I think these "nice" guys are confusing confidence with callousness. *Being confident and nice are not mutually exclusive. I'm sure most(not all) women prefer a man who is at least somewhat sure of himself. I don't think this means you must exude a sense of superiority, but it does mean that you don't get to be a pushover who bends or breaks on a whim.*


Well, obviously. I think the issue is more subtle than that.

Suppose, just for the sake of discussion, that there's some ideal balance between humility and cockiness that most women are looking for.

The point is that, at least in many of our observations, women are far more forgiving of and attracted to guys who stray X amount towards the "cocky" side than X amount towards the "doormat" side.

That's why it's frustrating when some women on this board, and the men who rush to defend them regardless of context, come in with platitudes and overly simplistic statements like "women don't like jerks _or_ doormats" as if there's a perfect equality between the two. They may prefer something in between, yes, but failing that I think more women than not will stray towards the overconfident side.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

anomalous said:


> Now we're getting somewhere.
> 
> But I still can't fully agree. Your last sentence is what bothers me. In my personal experience, limited as it may be in the scheme of the world, physically attractive "jerks" tend to rake in a lot more interested women than equally-attractive "nice guys." Both of those categories being subject to my own judgment, of course.
> 
> However, I don't want to detract from the excellent observation you made, because I think there's a lot of truth to it. I know it applies to me, at least.


But....why are you interested in the general "scheme" of things. Lol. I'm assuming you guys are only worried about your own lives and relationships.

Bottom line, a guy isn't rejected for being too nice, but that the girl is not attracted to him. *It has nothing to do with being too nice. *

As Canguy said, sad but true.

I just realized half of the guys here are in denial...haha it's just like women who make up excuses why the guy didn't call her back...we ARE really the same!!


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

What about "She doesn't have to do anything for a relationship" lol


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

ok lets be honest
if we took a poll her and now of how many have bf or gfs now or has int he past? girls would have had more
fact is, humans judge by looks. take 2 people
1 is a shy naive guy who looks quite good, 1is a shy naive girl who looks quite good

the guy will get no partners, no interest, no nothing
the girl? she'll get flirted with plenty. girls need 1 asset and ONLY 1 asset to find mates-looks. guys needs looks+ a LOT more

this is a massive inconsistanty, but-such is life, its not fair, not to alot of people. and it never will be. these kind of topics tiptoe around the same sh i t, just be honest-girls can have any type of personality and find partners, guys have to be certain things

the guys who arent those things? unlucky, girls are incredibly judgemental and wont give you a chance. its not so much your fault, it's that they are shallow and brainless sheep. welcome to life


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

michael1 said:


> ok lets be honest
> if we took a poll her and now of how many have bf or gfs now or has int he past? girls would have had more
> fact is, humans judge by looks. take 2 people
> 1 is a shy naive guy who looks quite good, 1is a shy naive girl who looks quite good
> ...


A better way to put it is like this

Girls get relationships automatically handed to them

Guys don't


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## ctrlaltdelete (May 13, 2010)

anomalous said:


> Well, obviously. I think the issue is more subtle than that.
> 
> Suppose, just for the sake of discussion, that there's some ideal balance between humility and cockiness that most women are looking for.
> 
> ...


I find it equally frustrating when certain women here, along with the men who defend them as if it's their raison d'etre, ride in on their high horses with vague generalizations. For the same reason I also can't agree with the guys here who believe, a priori, "all women prefer 'bad boys.'" Sure, it's possible(probable) that most women find confidence a preferable quality to timidity in men, but there's still going to be a percentage of women that prefer the opposite. To go even further, and going back to the point you made earlier, there will be some women that *must* have a man that walks the fine line between "jerk" and "doormat." It all comes down to personal preference, which is why the over simplifications being thrown around are dubious at best.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

calichick said:


> But....why are you interested in the general "scheme" of things. Lol. I'm assuming you guys are only worried about your own lives and relationships.


Maybe because the "general scheme of things" affects each and every one of us? My "own life and relationships" are subject to the influences of how society at large operates, just like anyone else.

Put it this way. Let's say 75% of American women find pronounced social anxiety to be a major, dealbreaker-type turn off in a guy. You might say, "well, find one of the 25% who isn't, and then it won't affect you." But that's ridiculously simplistic thinking.

First, the simple fact that our chances of success are much lower than other guys is a fact worthy of recognition and discussion on an SA board; it reduces our confidence in approaching women, and rightly so. Secondly, even if we do find a woman who's willing to give us a chance, our unattractiveness to the majority of women will still be a factor! It gives our hypothetical GF more power in the relationship by her knowing we're not desired by most other women and thus we have limited options, a fact which in itself is a turn-off to many women. I could go on and on through the chain of causes and effects, the vast majority of which are negative, but I'll stop with that for the sake of readability.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

ctrlaltdelete said:


> I find it equally frustrating when certain women here, along with the men who defend them as if it's their raison d'etre, ride in on their high horses with vague generalizations. For the same reason I also can't agree with the guys here who believe, a priori, "all women prefer 'bad boys.'" Sure, it's possible(probable) that most women find confidence a preferable quality to timidity in men, but there's still going to be a percentage of women that prefer the opposite. To go even further, and going back to the point you made earlier, there will be some women that *must* have a man that walks the fine line between "jerk" and "doormat." It all comes down to personal preference, which is why the over simplifications being thrown around are dubious at best.


See my response to calichick. Percentages and trends are not meaningless, in my opinion. If, as you propose, "it's probable that most women find confidence preferable to timidity," then timid guys are worse off. Period.

The fact that some random, needle-in-a-haystack girl on SAS from Canada or Australia might be willing to give a guy with my level of confidence a chance doesn't mean I'm on equal footing with my outgoing, loudmouth friend who can walk into any bar right here in town and get laid by the end of the night. Even if it's *possible* for insecure/SA guys to find a girl, it's still much harder, and that's all we're claiming (and I realize it's not exactly productive to do so... but then neither are 95% of the threads and posts on SAS).


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

" ok lets be honest
if we took a poll her and now of how many have bf or gfs now or has int he p
ast? girls would have had more
fact is, humans judge by looks. take 2 people
1 is a shy naive guy who looks quite good, 1is a shy naive girl who looks quite good

the guy will get no partners, no interest, no nothing
the girl? she'll get flirted with plenty. girls need 1 asset and ONLY 1 asset to find mates-looks. guys needs looks+ a LOT more"

So speaks the belief system and it's voice is crowded with assumptions and sweeping guesses. For a start, shyness is a behaviour or habit not a person. And looks good to whom? Talking in terms of "statics" again. They don't hold in this context.

But let's entertain their existence for a moment. The "statics" exist but even if they did, it would be more than possible for the guy to be approached. The assumption is made that all girls sit there and wait for men to approach them. Erm...some do. But I've seen a lot of women and some really do not wait for that kind of thing. Some are very forward indeed with men they like, for whatever reason.

"this is a massive inconsistanty, but-such is life, its not fair, not to alot of people. and it never will be."

So speaks the belief system.

"these kind of topics tiptoe around the same sh i t, just be honest-girls can have any type of personality and find partners, guys have to be certain things"

Again, belief system speaking. Girls are individuals. Girls can have any type of personality to find partners? Really? Okay, who wants to date the homicidal maniac girl who sees aliens everywhere? That's me being silly but, and I can only speak for myself, but for me, personality is enough to cancel things out in terms of who I am attracted to a lot more than looks is. The sexiest thing about a woman is her personality. I once got flirted with by this stunning beauty therapist and she mentioned in her conversation that she had had a client who was fat and how funny this was. I have no interest in people who make fun of others in that way so I didn't pursue anything with her.

Did I make a hasty judgement. Perhaps, in that case, I did. But it did put me off.

"the guys who arent those things? unlucky, girls are incredibly judgemental and wont give you a chance."

Yes, because all girls are following a universally acknowledged and understood script and all like the same type of guys. Oh no, wait a second....

"its not so much your fault, it's that they are shallow and brainless sheep. welcome to life"

Welcome to a belief system which is in an interpretation of life. And life and love are beyond the scope of negative belief systems and in some cases, beyond the comprehension of negativity itself.

All this assumption of lack. There are guys on here who will confidently tell you how they lack confidence, never doubt that they doubt themselves, be less than shy about telling you how shy they are....etc

A lot of the time it is not the girl following the crowd or following a script. It's the guy following the same negative story he has been telling himself and trying to prove to himself over and over again.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

mbp86 said:


> I'm sick of guys on here complaining about not getting women (myself included). If your approach isn't working, just change it. If you think you're too boring for women, get some hobbies. If you're too shy, make it a habit of talking to people (take baby steps).


I want to give you an ehug. This is the best thing I have read from you. 
Good for you man. 
Listen to this post. It is up to you to change. If your not happy where you are, or feel you 'cant' do something. You need to take the steps to do it.

Just for the fun of it.

Nice guy does not mean door mat.
Alpha male does not mean jerk.
Confidence does not mean jerk.

I know what it is like, looking at these confident guys and assuming all of them are jerks. That is not the case. There are Nice, confident guys out there. Jerks still exist but being able to talk to girls does not mean that person is one.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> " ok lets be honest
> if we took a poll her and now of how many have bf or gfs now or has int he p
> ast? girls would have had more
> fact is, humans judge by looks. take 2 people
> ...


no. a negative belief system is not the root of this. you seem to imply a male can change his luck with females by changing his mindset - dont be naive. people have personality traits, this means whilst they can wake up one day and say 'im going to forget about the X which happened to me as a child and do Y with my life now', there are certain behavioural traits they have aqcuired over their life. they cannot be changed with a positive defeat all mindset. it will be reverted to.

and this is my point. females can have these. they can be anything. imagine the scenario-a girl is reserved and sits at the back in a party,looking abit miserable and not interested in interacting. if she looks ok at least, men will wonder why shes doing that, and it'll become endearing. anything females do is endearing.

a guy sitting there? he's a loner, he's a freak, he has no friends, he's boring.

you should accept that certain things in life ARE NOT FAIR. life does not yield to whoever has the most positive mindset. a human is an animal. a baby is born without a predefined set of conditions upon which he/she judges life-it seeps into them through all the influences a person is under-family, friends, society as a whole and all that entails

and so, what has society deemed? at different times and in different places, different things. in a certain time, to say that all men should be treated equally would be heresy, because the priests and those preordained by virtue of their name (family name etc), are those who are better, those born to command servants, not serve.

yet now in 1st world civilisations that notion is ludicrous. talk about flowing subjective and fluid, it;'s these things. that one is gone, but many others remain. young children are sent off to school with chicken sandwhiches, go tell that person as a 25 yr old that chickens are hung in a conveyor belt by their feet and butchered by a steel machine. they wont care-theyve already accepted that such things are ok, not even to be considered nevermind questioned. the beliefs bred into them from youth and throughout childhood are by and large too strong to be swayed by counter evidence later on.

so with relationships. males and females should be a certain way. a male should be assertive and confident. a female who is not can be endearing so long as she looks ok. a male who looks ok, but lacks these things-he is written off. its much deeper than you think


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

anomalous said:


> Maybe because the "general scheme of things" affects each and every one of us? My "own life and relationships" are subject to the influences of how society at large operates, just like anyone else.
> 
> Put it this way. Let's say 75% of American women find pronounced social anxiety to be a major, dealbreaker-type turn off in a guy. You might say, "well, find one of the 25% who isn't, and then it won't affect you." But that's ridiculously simplistic thinking.
> 
> First, the simple fact that our chances of success are much lower than other guys is a fact worthy of recognition and discussion on an SA board; it reduces our confidence in approaching women, and rightly so. Secondly, even if we do find a woman who's willing to give us a chance, our unattractiveness to the majority of women will still be a factor! It gives our hypothetical GF more power in the relationship by her knowing we're not desired by most other women and *thus we have limited options, *a fact which in itself is a turn-off to many women. I could go on and on through the chain of causes and effects, the vast majority of which are negative, but I'll stop with that for the sake of readability.


You're making it seem like guys with SA are the victims of the world. Women have standards. Fact of life. You, as every other guy in this world, won't be judged solely on looks and personality but on one or more of these things:

-history
-job
-income
-education
-height/size
-habits
-race
-culture
-interests in common
-emotional compatibility

It's the dating game..it's not easy or fair but it's life. Nearly every person is or will be going through this in life.

Women want to secure the best possible mate, survival of the fittest dear :wink

But they aren't doing so well considering the single-mother statistics which is why I don't trust guys :\


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

calichick said:


> You're making it seem like guys with SA are the victims of the world. Women have standards. Fact of life. You, as every other guy in this world, won't be judged solely on looks and personality but on one or more of these things:
> 
> -history
> -job
> ...


you are an ,,,,d


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

michael1 said:


> you are an ,,,,d


I'm a what?:um


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Girls never get judged on any of that. They have life handed to them on a silver platter. They can marry a rich guy and never work another day in their life. Switch the genders...never happens....

They get relationships automatically. Guys don't. They rule the dating game, and they also rule the population.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

calichick said:


> I'm a what?:um


It wheel of fortune. You need to guess another letter. I am intrigued to know the answer too.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

calichick said:


> You're making it seem like guys with SA are the victims of the world. Women have standards. Fact of life. You, as every other guy in this world, won't be judged solely on looks and personality but on one or more of these things:
> 
> -history
> -job
> ...


Right. I agree with everything you said.

It's not fair, just like many things, so those who get the short end of the stick are going to complain about it. "That's life," as you put it.

If I stumbled upon an "Ugly Female Support" forum, it would come as no surprise if I found a lot of the members *****ing about how guys are shallow pigs who don't appreciate all the positive nonphysical qualities they have, and I wouldn't bother waltzing in with false outrage about how they need to "STOP GENARALZING CUZ I'M NOT LIKE THAT OK!!!!" I'd sympathize with their legitimate difficulties and understand they're saying those things out of frustration, and that there's some truth to it. Many women, and some men, on this forum seem incapable of doing that.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

stranger25 said:


> Girls never get judged on any of that. They have life handed to them on a silver platter. They can marry a rich guy and never work another day in their life. Switch the genders...never happens....
> 
> They get relationships automatically. Guys don't. They rule the dating game, and they also rule the population.


Generalize much? 
Girls may be able to get into a relationship *marginally* easier, but it is *no easier* to get into a meaningful relationship which they want.

Not all girls are the money hungry control freaks you describe. My personal experience is that most are not.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Right. I agree with everything you said.
> 
> It's not fair, just like many things, so those who get the short end of the stick are going to complain about it. "That's life," as you put it.
> 
> If I stumbled upon an "Ugly Female Support" forum, it would come as no surprise if I found a lot of the members *****ing about how guys are shallow pigs who don't appreciate all the positive nonphysical qualities they have, and I wouldn't bother waltzing in with false outrage about how they need to "STOP GENARALZING CUZ I'M NOT LIKE THAT OK!!!!" I'd sympathize with their legitimate difficulties and understand they're saying those things out of frustration, and that there's some truth to it. Many women, and some men, on this forum seem incapable of doing that.


this isnt a ugly male support forum, however. it's SAS, which is not gender specific. it's a disorder that inhibits social confidence and other aspects of interaction. and here, many of the males cannot find partners whilst most of the females can/do/have.

explain that.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Not marginally. Totally. They don't have to do any approaching or talking, doesn't matter what's wrong with them or if they have any faults. They can be poor, uneducated, be a late virgin, live with their parents, not have a job, no money, bad social skills, social anxiety, no friends, be a single mother etc. Nothing matters. They can have it ALL. They live life in the clouds.

Guys need to be on a certain level. Guys need to be accepted.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

michael1 said:


> girls need 1 asset and ONLY 1 asset to find mates-looks. guys needs looks+ a LOT more


BTW, I don't think you realize what this implies. It would be nice for a guy to be attractive, but if he has a great personality or a great job or a nice hobby, or another factor, then the looks wouldn't matter as much. (Actually I'm guessing guys are judged primarily on personality)

In our society, girls are judged ONLY on looks as you mentioned. Do you know how much pressure it is for us girls to try to meet these expectations?

When you're calling us girls "shallow sheep" or whatever you said, you don't have in mind the ugly-according-to-society girls. You're only thinking of the pretty girl who rejects guys.

10 million girls in the US with eating disorders, 1 in 50 females who suffer from BDD with a suicide rate DOUBLE that of major depression.

Females don't have it ANY easier than males. :no



matty said:


> It wheel of fortune. You need to guess another letter. I am intrigued to know the answer too.


I know..I was thinking it can't be b*tch, can't be who*re, can't be a*s LOL..I want to know!


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

michael1 said:


> this isnt a ugly male support forum, however. it's SAS, which is not gender specific. it's a disorder that inhibits social confidence and other aspects of interaction. and here, many of the males cannot find partners whilst most of the females can/do/have.
> 
> explain that.


Because confidence is a significantly more important component to a man's overall attractiveness than to a woman's, on average? That's why I used "ugly female" instead of "shy female," because I think the analogy between looks for women and social status/confidence for men might crudely demonstrate the similar importance of each. Could be wrong, of course, but my observations -- which include the dating situation of the two genders on SAS, as you mentioned -- suggest it.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

michael1 said:


> this isnt a ugly male support forum, however. it's SAS, which is not gender specific. it's a disorder that inhibits social confidence and other aspects of interaction. and here, many of the males cannot find partners whilst most of the females can/do/have.
> 
> explain that.


How about you use the same value for both. one was, cannot find partners, the other was can/do/have.

Now I am sure plenty of sas girls cannot find a partner. Not one which they want.

I am also sure that plenty of sas guys have had some form of can/do/have with a female. Maybe not to the level they want which seems to be based on sex 99% of the time, but they have had some form of relationship.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Because confidence is a significantly more important component to a man's overall attractiveness than to a woman's, on average? That's why I used "ugly female" instead of "shy female," because I think the analogy between looks for women and social status/confidence for men might crudely demonstrate the similar importance of each. Could be wrong, of course, but my observations -- which include the dating situation of the two genders on SAS, as you mentioned -- suggest it.


so really we have no argument and we agree

so then, confidence.

SA is a disorder. is it my fault if i have SA? no. is it my fault I'm male? no. is is my fault i am the combination of having SA+being male? no.

SA inhibits confidence, we would all agree. so certain males regardless of how much good there is in their personality, in terms of their ideology, sense of humour, beliefs, etc, will be written off because they lack a certain trait - confidence - that as a societal dogma they are supposed to have.

personally i think the analogy doesnt even this out. looking good is something you can control - you can lose weight, wear different clothes, get a different haircut, get a tan, whatever. females will be able to find partners based solely on this-whilst males have to have something they cannot control or change.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)




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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

calichick said:


> BTW, I don't think you realize what this implies. It would be nice for a guy to be attractive, but if he has a great personality or a great job or a nice hobby, or another factor, then the looks wouldn't matter as much. (Actually I'm guessing guys are judged primarily on personality)
> 
> In our society, girls are judged ONLY on looks as you mentioned. Do you know how much pressure it is for us girls to try to meet these expectations?
> 
> ...


i dindnt say girls are judged solely on their looks. i said if a girl looks ok regardless of anything else she will have relationships. i disregarded everything else because that is the point i was making.

eating disorders and bdd-think about my point. they feel a pressure that they have to look a certain way, whilst i said girls who look anything from OK or less will find partners. whilst they might feel the need to be a certain size, they will find partners even if they were not or if they were chubby

so yes, girls DO have it easier. of course they do.

--- humans are social animals ----

we NEED relationships. girls can attain them EASILY. guys with SA, many, cannot ever, not even once. easier? get a clue


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Women in their teens and 20s have a much easier time dating than guys. HOWEVER they have their drawbacks as well. 

Imagine never being able to go anywhere for fear that someone will rape you. Its something guys never think twice about unless they are in prison.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

stranger25 said:


> Not marginally. Totally. They don't have to do any approaching or talking, doesn't matter what's wrong with them or if they have any faults. They can be poor, uneducated, be a late virgin, live with their parents, not have a job, no money, bad social skills, social anxiety, no friends, be a single mother etc. Nothing matters. They can have it ALL. They live life in the clouds.
> 
> Guys need to be on a certain level. Guys need to be accepted.


You do realise that not all girls have guys coming up to them?
And if things are how you describe then I think guys are the ones with the problems. We all sound desperate which dont care about our wants.

You really dont care what girl you date? As long as you have a girl? That is just crazy. Go walk down the street and open your eyes, there are plenty of girls out there which get ignored.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

matty said:


> How about you use the same value for both. one was, cannot find partners, the other was can/do/have.
> 
> Now I am sure plenty of sas girls cannot find a partner. Not one which they want.
> 
> I am also sure that plenty of sas guys have had some form of can/do/have with a female. Maybe not to the level they want which seems to be based on sex 99% of the time, but they have had some form of relationship.


based on sex? heh.

same challenge i made to joinmartin. make 2 threads, 1 for guys 1 for girls about their relationships history/experience

we can put money on the line. winner gets money through paypal.

you can "be sure" but you are wrong, the girls WILL have more current and past relationships than the guys.

THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE FEMALE - WHILST MALES AND FEMALES HAVE NON GENDER SPECIFIC AND SIMILAR SA RELATED ISSUES, THE FEMALES STILL FIND PARTNERS B E C A U S E, SIMPLE, THEY ARE F E M A L E AND NOTHING MORE

just admit it


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

michael1 said:


> so really we have no argument and we agree
> 
> so then, confidence.
> 
> ...


Well, we don't disagree on the idea that men have much more pressure to be confident than women in the dating scene.

But I do think you're going way overboard in this post. It's preposterous to say that women have more control over how they look than we do over how we act.

There's no doubt we're getting screwed over royally, dude. But let's be fair: highly unattractive women are at least as bad off as us, and possibly worse. Most of them can't do much about it.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

It doesn't matter what the girl looks like. There will always be a guy out there willing to take her. This isn't true for guys. They are more likely to be overlooked and live their life incel.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

nice guys are at the bottom of the sex food chain. end of discussion.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

ya,and nice doesnt mean nice, it means lacking a bunch of traits men are supposed to have


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

stranger25 said:


> It doesn't matter what the girl looks like. There will always be a guy out there willing to take her. This isn't true for guys. They are more likely to be overlooked and live their life incel.


I don't think so. Even morbidly obese or disfigured women?

There might be a few guys sprinkled throughout the world willing to "take" them, but then again, there might well be a few girls sprinkled throughout the world willing to "take" us, too.

I suppose the fact that if the disfigured woman is lucky enough to encounter one of those guys, he will probably be the one to approach her, does give her a negligible leg up. But it hardly matters; lack of relationships, sex, and social acceptance will perpetually plague both groups (highly insecure guys/highly unattractive women).


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

so the best u can do for an analogy to guys who lack confident traits, guys with anxiety disorders, (i believe the 2nd most prevelant mental condition behind depression?) is girls who are freakishly disfigured or morbidly obese? :lol: :lol: way to prove the point


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

michael1 said:


> THE FEMALES STILL FIND PARTNERS B E C A U S E, SIMPLE, THEY ARE F E M A L E AND NOTHING MORE





stranger25 said:


> It doesn't matter what the girl looks like. There will always be a guy out there willing to take her. This isn't true for guys. They are more likely to be overlooked and live their life incel.


You don't have any concrete evidence to anything you're saying, you need to stop playing the gender card










Anyway some of you need to change your attitudes if you want to find a female who would take you :\


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

michael1 said:


> based on sex? heh.
> 
> same challenge i made to joinmartin. make 2 threads, 1 for guys 1 for girls about their relationships history/experience
> 
> ...


:lol nice form, we are going to bet on it :lol why not challenge me to a dual. Maybe we could have a thumb war as well. 

Yes Michael, I am wrong because I have a more open mind to you and a difference of opinion. What I think is that more guys are open about this on the forum, girls not so much. Also guys complain about their current situation. 'I cant get a girl'. Yet have had some for of previous relationship. For filling your can/have/whatever.

Sorry I have read too many I want an attractive girl threads which are mainly based around looks and physical aspects. I admit 99% although obviously exaggerated was plucked out of the air.

The craziest thing about this is... most guys are concerned with looks... most girls are concerned with personality. Pretty happy to be judge on my personality then looks.

This thread has progressed me to hating guys. I am a single guy out in this terrible world where I have to do some work to find my life partner. Shoot me now. Actually I wouldnt want it any other way.

I am siding with the girls because the guys argument is extremely stupid and way out of control. Maybe tone it down a little, stop blaming everyone and I could see some of your points. No wonder girls dont like nice guys look at how you're representing them.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

theres no concrete evidence for anything to do with relationships. this subforum would be pretty empty of only factual stuff was posted

but lets talk more about double standards. look at your avatar. dressed like a s l u t, self obsessed, im betting the guys just think "cute" when they see it.

how about the male equivalent. top off, flexing infront of a mirror...cute or douchey? :lol:

idk lol just gbettin my as s banned now


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

michael1 said:


> theres no concrete evidence for anything to do with relationships. this subforum would be pretty empty of only factual stuff was posted
> 
> but lets talk more about double standards. look at your avatar. dressed like a s l u t, self obsessed, im betting the guys just think "cute" when they see it.
> 
> ...


Hope it was worth it then. Serious uncalled for.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

matty said:


> :lol nice form, we are going to bet on it :lol why not challenge me to a dual. Maybe we could have a thumb war as well.
> 
> Yes Michael, I am wrong because I have a more open mind to you and a difference of opinion. What I think is that more guys are open about this on the forum, girls not so much. Also guys complain about their current situation. 'I cant get a girl'. Yet have had some for of previous relationship. For filling your can/have/whatever.
> 
> ...


the bet is an easy way for me to make money if you would accept, simply. and putting my money where my mouth is. we both say "im right" so im saying, lets test it-and im so sure ill put £ on the line

you think guys are mroe honest about it, and girls not so much. i think you talk f~ing rubbish. girls can get bfs easily, guys cannot get gfs easily, thats what i think.

guys who are superficial? read what girls post, they are equally superficial. they are equally horny, too. eyes open pal, see people for what they are.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

michael1 said:


> this isnt a ugly male support forum, however. it's SAS, which is not gender specific. *it's a disorder that inhibits social confidence and other aspects of interaction*. and *here, many of the males cannot find partners whilst most of the females can/do/have*.
> 
> explain that.





anomalous said:


> *Because confidence is a significantly more important component to a man's overall attractiveness than to a woman's, on average? That's why I used "ugly female" instead of "shy female," *because I think the analogy between looks for women and social status/confidence for men might crudely demonstrate the similar importance of each. Could be wrong, of course, but my observations -- which include the dating situation of the two genders on SAS, as you mentioned -- suggest it.


Between these 2 members, we've got the truth/
It is a truth many people like to dance around, but true nontheless.
I am glad that for a change, a thread like this has been allowed to go on for days. Allowing us to really explore this topic.

Confidence /having backbone etc... is the male equivalent to female physical beauty. Many female members themselves have expressed in this very forum - that they expect their man to have some form of confidence.

And this is why, on a Social Anxiety Forum it should be appreciated that the cries of the lonely-shy-male will be made, again and again and again.

After all; female members of S.A. who say they're *ugly* often complain and start threads which exactly mirror this one.

But there is hope. Being an unusually reserved man, or a not-quite-a-hottie of a woman just means you have to work harder than others to get a relationship.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

sabueed said:


> These texts she sent me really made me feel better, but it bothered me later because I realized that it's all bs. Being a nice guy has not gotten me anywhere with girls. There are a few girls that know that I am a great guy, but they are not flocking to me. I am not exctly being chased around by girls really. Is anyone else here bothered when people tell you that you will find the right girl? Because I am really picky, and I refuse to lower my standards. There are many girls that have what I am looking for and I choose to stick with that. What do u guys think, what does a smart, nice guy have over a goodlooking, hunky *******? It seems to me, absolutely nothing. My friend is 20 by the way, so I ain't really sure why she tells me this if she likes to date these ********. She's gorgeous and she dates really goodlooking guys who treat her like crap. What gives?


There are a lot of weird/negative replies to this. o.0

But there were some I agreed with to an extent. It's hard to advise you because I don't know you. I don't know how you act around a girl you like.

There is something to be said about confidence but I'd like to make sure that definition is clear. Guys who are TOO confident, ie. think people should worship the ground they walk on is a turn off (for me). It does attract some girls. I don't know why but it does. My sister dates the World's Biggest Jerk and she continues to go crawling back to him and no one has a clue why. She's gorgeous and could get anyone but she's attracted to the wrong ones. Anyway, confidence. My ex was a shy guy. He was one of the "nerds" at his school and to my knowledge didn't have more than a handful of friends from that place. And they were definitely lower on the food chain than him. Stereotypical computer nerd type guys. Why was I into him? Among many things, his smile. He was always one to smile and I loved that. Though he knew his place in the high school social totem pole, he pursued what he loved. He wrote a lot, poetry and prose. He sang. He was into music beyond that Top40 drivel. He dressed the way he liked. He actually had this Matrix style trench coat that was pretty weird but he liked it so he wore it. He had this crazy need to learn everything he could about anything under the sun (which kind of got annoying sometimes  ).

Now. To the point. Please, those who read this, don't get the idea that I'm all uppity and think highly of myself. Let me just make my point and try and see it.  At the time I met him I had my choice between him, a jock who looked an awful lot like Josh Hartnett, and an older guy who was pretty well established in his area of business and pretty cute too. All of them were nice guys and were interested. I think they all would have treated me well too. But the guy I just described to you beat the others due to all the reasons I listed. I liked his quirkiness and his kindness and sensitivity. There was something innocent about him that I didn't see often in guys (at the age of eighteen). I was also his first real girlfriend. So inexperience and kindness does NOT set you back with every girl is kind of what I'm trying to get at.

I could go on into one of my best friends' stories as he's a pretty fantastic guy but has only had one (sorry excuse of a) girlfriend in the entire time I've known him (eight years). But I've typed a lot. :um


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

michael1 said:


> the bet is an easy way for me to make money if you would accept, simply. and putting my money where my mouth is. we both say "im right" so im saying, lets test it-and im so sure ill put £ on the line
> 
> you think guys are mroe honest about it, and girls not so much. i think you talk f~ing rubbish. girls can get bfs easily, guys cannot get gfs easily, thats what i think.
> 
> guys who are superficial? read what girls post, they are equally superficial. they are equally horny, too. eyes open pal, see people for what they are.


Sorry mate, but I am all up for the thumb war, I think we can really sort this out and end this discussion for all time. Lets do it. We will be SAS god, they will write stories about us.

I think guys ***** about it more then girls in the open forum. I think girls are more discrete. No rubbish, I think guys jump on the poor me wagon and hope someone else will fix their problems, because it is the worlds problem. Like global warming and pay tv.

I have my eyes open and all I see is a poor display. There is a lucky girl out there for you.  :yes

Your blaming girls and dissing girl for all this, yet you still seem to think they should want to date you. You have a very poor opinion of women and that needs to change.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

If you're one of those girls who swears you're different from the rest of the female population, if you're one of those rare girls who says you will only go for a "nice guy" no matter what and not a tattooed drug addict rich drunk driving alpha male thug then this is what you need to do, when a shy guy shows interest, or you see one you like

1. don't judge him based on how much money he makes or if he is poor
2. don't look at him differently for being a virgin until a later age
3. don't dismiss him because he has no social skills
4. don't raise assumptions if he has no friends and is a loner
5. don't judge him based on his looks
6. don't write him off because he has no experience
7. give the guy a chance
8. don't assume he is a loser/serial killer/freak/creep/ugly/stupid
9. don't reject him!

Why do you think you can judge the nice guy and he can't judge you? Why do you have to have all the say?

Who will you go with. What guy. You always complain about wanting a nice guy. How do you know he has no confidence. You don't even know the guy. At least he has a heart. Something your alpha thug abusive friend will never have.

girls, until you do this , you are a hypocrite, and 2 faced, that is, when you say "I want a nice guy". He's standing right infront of YOU.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

michael1 said:


> but lets talk more about double standards. look at your avatar. dressed like a s l u t, self obsessed, im betting the guys just think "cute" when they see it.


lmao, how is a black dress ****ty dear? am I showing my boobs? Am I showing my ***? Oleeeeeeeee grannnyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. :roll

Oh damnit, you're either muslim or you're mormon, which??


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

bla bla bla i wouldnt want my daughter dressing like that. you are wearing only a shirt. 
you'd be showing your >< or your as.s if you stood up
muslim or mormon? whatever u like best, u and matty are way off with your assumptions about me&i dont care to defend myself
get some class


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

michael1 said:


> bla bla bla i wouldnt want my daughter dressing like that. you are wearing only a shirt.
> you'd be showing your >< or your as.s if you stood up
> muslim or mormon? whatever u like best, u and matty are way off with your assumptions about me&i dont care to defend myself
> get some class


It's a dress honey. I have 3 feet long legs, and I used to model. It's a dress. Ok :teeth

Agreed with Matty, good f* luck to the winner who gets this tool!


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

calichick said:


> lmao, how is a black dress ****ty dear? am I showing my boobs? Am I showing my ***? Oleeeeeeeee grannnyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. :roll
> 
> Oh damnit, you're either muslim or you're mormon, which??


That's a pretty confident avatar picture


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

michael1 said:


> bla bla bla i wouldnt want my daughter dressing like that. you are wearing only a shirt.
> you'd be showing your >< or your as.s if you stood up
> muslim or mormon? whatever u like best, u and matty are way off with your assumptions about me&i dont care to defend myself
> get some class


But your assumptions are correct about every female on this planet? I am just working with what you have displayed. I think it is a bit more credible.

Disappointed, I was really looking forward to a dual, thumb war, even an arm wrestle, but I would have to work on my arms a little.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

calichick said:


> It's a dress honey. I have 3 feet long legs, and I used to model. It's a dress. Ok :teeth
> 
> Agreed with Matty, good f* luck to the winner who gets this tool!


dont call me honey, condescending mfer
i dont care bout your legs lol
but thanks for the good wishes i am sure u mean it


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

VIncymon said:


> That's a pretty confident avatar picture


Thanks? I guess lol


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

matty said:


> But your assumptions are correct about every female on this planet? I am just working with what you have displayed. I think it is a bit more credible.
> 
> Disappointed, I was really looking forward to a dual, thumb war, even an arm wrestle, but I would have to work on my arms a little.


why are they just assumptions? i said females can get partners based on nothing but looking good, whereas males who lack certain traits will be written off-traits they cannot control, even IF they look good too (to draw some kind of parallel)

i used this forum as evidence-its a SA forum, guys+girls with SA. a much, much higher % of the females here will have bfs or ex bf's, then males the other way

f talking about every girl on the planet, but what we can see we can discuss. i think if u are honest with yourself you will at least agree with my above assertions. and to be honest there isnt a real point to stating that, it's more of a "heres another reason humans are a joke" than a worthwhile thing to discuss anyhow


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

michael1 said:


> dont call me honey, condescending mfer
> i dont care bout your legs lol
> but thanks for the good wishes i am sure u mean it


I didn't ask if you cared about them, but you called me a **** which I'm going to report you for right now. k thanx


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

you can add retard when you report me,
as i saw you debating racism and your incredibly simple minded backward views were pretty hilarious
so yeah, you're a retard too


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

k thx honey


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

HAHA ICE-SUN THEORY.


owns.

I knew one of you saw that thread :\


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

trying to sound intelligent again? >> u arent, so dont try. lol


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

I replied to the OP with noooo idea what was going on until now. Good lord. 

I have no strong opinions on the matter that this turned into but it's interesting that no one's mentioned the stereotype of men having an easier time later in life as far as the dating world goes. It's a generalization that men get more attractive as they age but girls go a bit downhill. In most divorces that I'm aware of, the guy remarried and the woman remains single with some dates here and there. But that's my own world. Who knows what it's really like. 

Though I would like to say some girls DO put in effort. :b I landed my first date by asking the guy. I'm sure it was a very attractive scene, sweating like mad, but it worked out.


:duel <- If there must be one, I vote swords.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Lock Warning****
There's nothing like being in an active thread.
Three infractions and five warnings later, I am pulling out the fire hose on this debacle.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

michael1 said:


> why are they just assumptions? i said females can get partners based on nothing but looking good, whereas males who lack certain traits will be written off-traits they cannot control, even IF they look good too (to draw some kind of parallel)
> 
> i used this forum as evidence-its a SA forum, guys+girls with SA. a much, much higher % of the females here will have bfs or ex bf's, then males the other way
> 
> f talking about every girl on the planet, but what we can see we can discuss. i think if u are honest with yourself you will at least agree with my above assertions. and to be honest there isnt a real point to stating that, it's more of a "heres another reason humans are a joke" than a worthwhile thing to discuss anyhow


This very thread early on guys were writing off girls which werent attractive. That is a something they cant control. Lets not discuss attraction again.

Guys can get partners based on nothing but looks too. Girls can also not get a date based looks.

Base on this forum I still believe the facts would be fairly close. Providing all females actually partake the poll. This is a much bigger deal for guys, hence why you seem to think girls have it so easy.


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