# I predict by year 2025



## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

A master's will become the new bachelors. You'll need a masters to be a secretary and make coffee for your boss. Modern mass produced education has become such a scam. 

I'm up to my eyeballs in debt, and these *******S HAVE THE AUDACITY TO ASK ME FOR DONATIONS. I guess the money they sucked out of me for 4 years wasn't enough. **** YOU WITH A BROKEN BEER BOTTLE YOU GREEDY MOTHER****ERS. I HOPE EVERYONE MAKING MONEY OFF OF FOOLING STUDENTS BURNS IN HELL.


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

But yes, I feel your pain.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

Drop the entitlements dude. A degree doesn't mean a good job.


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## crimeclub (Nov 7, 2013)

Hmm that feel... oh yes I know that feel, we go way back.


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## ShakeyHands (Aug 28, 2012)

I agree, I'm not decided on a timescale but I think a master's will replace a bachelor's as a norm. ..


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## tea111red (Nov 8, 2005)

A masters to make coffee, lol. You are probably right.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

HellCell said:


> Drop the entitlements dude.


And your point is? Drop acting holier-than-thou, bro.

All he is doing is voicing his opinion on the matter in the only way he knows how to. Theres is nothing entitled in wanting to get something back for all of his (presumably) hard work. Here is my say on these kinds of issues in society since I am going through this right now:

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/1075664345-post15.html



HellCell said:


> A degree doesn't mean a good job.


If that were the case, then maybe colleges and universities should stop hyping up the respective job markets and percentage-of-graduates-who-found-jobs-within-six-months statistics. Which are grossly inflated to make their respective field seem "in-demand."


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> And your point is? Drop acting holier-than-thou, bro.
> 
> All he is doing is voicing his opinion on the matter in the only way he knows how to. Theres is nothing entitled in wanting to get something back for all of his (presumably) hard work. Here is my say on these kinds of issues in society since I am going through this right now:
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/1075664345-post15.html


That doesn't really refute my point? It sucks, but that's how it works. Think about it this way; Elliot Rodger thought he was entitled to girls cause he "looked pretty" but did it girls flock to him, no. Then of course, instead of humbly accepting differences among others, he appealed to his entitlements by taking matters on his own hands.



> If that were the case, then maybe colleges and universities should stop hyping up the respective job markets and percentage-of-graduates-who-found-jobs-within-six-months statistics. Which are grossly inflated to make their respective field seem "in-demand."


I'm sure there are merit in those figures (If we look into sample size, credibility, etc). What it's saying is, you got a high chance, but not necessarily a guaranteed chance at attaining a job.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

HellCell said:


> Think about it this way; Elliot Rodger thought he was entitled to girls because he "looked pretty" but did it girls flock to him, no. Then of course, instead of humbly accepting differences among others, he appealed to his entitlements by taking matters on his own hands.


I fail to see how Elliot Rodger is relevant here, honestly.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

HellCell said:


> That doesn't really refute my point? It sucks, but that's how it works. Think about it this way; Elliot Rodger thought he was entitled to girls cause he "looked pretty" but did it girls flock to him, no. Then of course, instead of humbly accepting differences among others, he appealed to his entitlements by taking matters on his own hands.
> 
> I'm sure there are merit in those figures (If we look into sample size, credibility, etc). What it's saying is, you got a high chance, but not necessarily a guaranteed chance at attaining a job.


Really? You're comparing this to the Elliot Rodgers situation? Wow! The difference is Rodgers really didn't put in any work, where as I did a degree. I'm also not looking for some career dream job. Hell, I'll even do one at min wage if it meant getting my foot in the door.

Anyways, I'm not pissed about the fact that I didn't get a job. It's because I suck and employers can see that. 
What I'm pissed off is the fact that they have the audacity to ask me for donation after sucking me dry for 4 years. I'm pissed off at their career center because I didn't get into the co-op program because I wasn't a business student in first year (what a stupid reason). That decision has ruined my life. I'm pissed off at the high school counsellors who said that I WILL get a decent job if I get a decent degree. I'm pissed off because university costs so damn much. I'm pissed off because higher education is privatized and institutions just use to exploit people for profit.


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## monotonous (Feb 1, 2013)

not really, my education got me a good job


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Indeed, the amount of money you Americans have to invest in education is crazy.

And as the years go by, employers keep upping their standards. Back in my grandparents' days you could get a decent job with your highschool diploma alone. In my parents' days you could become a trader after 2 years of business school. Nowadays you need a double masters' degree in engineering & finance to stand a chance.

The fact that we're in a recession doesn't help. The competition for jobs is harsh.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> Really? You're comparing this to the Elliot Rodgers situation? Wow! The difference is Rodgers really didn't put in any work, where as I did a degree. I'm also not looking for some career dream job. Hell, I'll even do one at min wage if it meant getting my foot in the door.
> 
> Anyways, I'm not pissed about the fact that I didn't get a job. It's because I suck and employers can see that.
> What I'm pissed off is the fact that they have the audacity to ask me for donation after sucking me dry for 4 years. I'm pissed off at their career center because I didn't get into the co-op program because I wasn't a business student in first year (what a stupid reason). That decision has ruined my life. I'm pissed off at the high school counsellors who said that I WILL get a decent job if I get a decent degree. I'm pissed off because university costs so damn much. I'm pissed off because higher education is privatized and institutions just use to exploit people for profit.


I knew I was going to get a lot of heat for the comparison. It's not just me who's calling college graduates entitled, you know. It's just a fact of life that nothing is owed to anyone for any reason.

Yeah, the world is unfair. Hell in a perfect world you should get a job at 16 with no experience. Employers (If not you're own business) will have accommodations to SA while we're at it!


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## llodell88 (May 15, 2011)

too much competition...people ***** so much about people being lazy and what i mostly see is people working way too hard in college...and then the outcome of all that is there are twice as many people with bachelors as there are jobs that require them...so a good proportion of those ppl who worked their asses off through college end up with debt and not much else. of course we can all say that education is valuable in itself but realistically it is just a means to an end for most people.


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## DeniseAfterAll (Jul 28, 2012)

Anyone with internet access is above the educational system .

If the road to success was that easily paved .. everybody would just go to college , get a degree .. and instantly fly into a well paying job .

In reality .. even getting a job at McDonald's requires intensive struggle . You'll essentially have to pave your own way .

Natural selection ; Survival of the Fittest .

That's not to say that there aren't people who have it all made . There Are people who have it all made .. and we'll just have to deal with that .


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## llodell88 (May 15, 2011)

DeniseAfterAll said:


> Anyone with internet access is above the educational system .
> 
> If the road to success was that easily paved .. everybody would just go to college , get a degree .. and instantly fly into a well paying job .
> 
> ...


Indeed I learn much better and faster on my own and I probably applied to different McDonald's 50 times and they only interviewed me once. I don't allow people to make me feel guilty as much as I used to but I literally spent a summer feeling like a terrible person if I didn't spend all my waking hours looking for a job. I'm glad I got out of that mentality although it still is hurtful knowing people think that you are trash for not having a job. I know now a lot of it is just projection. Lazy *** people are jealous of people who don't work when they should consider themselves lucky that they have a job!


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## cybernaut (Jul 30, 2010)

Yes.Even my 47 year old mother,who has a Bachelors+Masters,has complained to me how university has become way more competitive.She is still in a &hitload of debt (Masters) 20+ years later. I'm thankful to be debt free for my Bachelors.But, I express uncertainty for when I start my Masters. The common types of careers that seem not to involve Master degrees are computer science, IT, engineer, and sometimes Business/Economics based.

I'm thinking about Canada,UK, or Egypt for my Masters. The competitiveness of the graduate schools here make me a bit anxious and sick. I used know this one dude on here who was an 'A-average' Bachelor's student and applied to 6+ American graduate schools. He only got accepted into two. I'm assuming that it was due to the 'lack' of volunteer or job experience in his field during his Bachelor years.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

Yeah you're in debt because you live in the states and universities don't "scam" you, you just have a laughable educational system.Try Germany,Denmark or Sweden where the goverment pays you in order for you to have a more comfortable life in university.****, Norwegian High schools pay students ~800 USD / month for the less priviledged students to be able to have a fair chance.(money comes from taxes, but do you really care that your taxes will be 20% higher if you can already afford to live comfortably either way, and don't have to worry about necessities such as healthcare, education and living expenses?)


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

SaladDays said:


> *Yeah you're in debt because you live in the states*


He lives in Canada, not the US.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

HellCell said:


> I knew I was going to get a lot of heat for the comparison. It's not just me who's calling college graduates entitled, you know. It's just a fact of life that nothing is owed to anyone for any reason.


You really could have used a better person for comparison. One of my buddies in college for example, told me that he won't take any job that pays him less than $60k. He explained that the reason for that was that he could do other things besides software engineering, like graphic design. I told him that he was being kind of ridiculous and that he was going to get much less than that right out of school. THAT is entitlement, not people like myself and gunner21 who just want any job to get our foot in the door.

I have an interview lined up for next week for a Junior C++ Developer position, so we shall see how this goes.


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## rubyruby (Jun 17, 2009)

Go to Alberta.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> You really could have used a better person for comparison. One of my buddies in college for example, told me that he won't take any job that pays him less than $60k. He explained that the reason for that was that he could do other things besides software engineering, like graphic design. I told him that he was being kind of ridiculous and that he was going to get much less than that right out of school. THAT is entitlement, not people like myself and gunner21 who just want any job to get our foot in the door.
> 
> I have an interview lined up for next week for a Junior C++ Developer position, so we shall see how this goes.


Okay, so if I'm hearing you right. Entitlement is a matter of extent?

So if I'm homeless and I'm panhandling people, I can be entitled to $10 a day. However if I'm that same homeless person and I'm upset I'm not getting at least $100 a day, then I'm entitled.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

HellCell said:


> So if I'm homeless and I'm panhandling people, I can be entitled to $10 a day. However if I'm that same homeless person and I'm upset I'm not getting at least $100 a day, then I'm entitled.


If you were homeless, you would want ANY amount of money to help you out in life. The amount does not matter.

Once you start putting a dollar value on yourself and won't take anything less than that is when I personally feel you are entitled. Those are the ones who think they are oh so special. That is what I tried to convey here with my own real-life example. I am not looking to debate with you anymore on this, so this discussion between us ends here.

Have a nice day.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> He lives in Canada, not the US.


Is Canada o the same system as the US?


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

if man is still alive....if woman can survive they may find....


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

HellCell said:


> Elliot Rodger thought he was entitled to girls cause he "looked pretty" but did it girls flock to him, no.


Elliot Rodger wasn't all that attractive. He was a manlet and had a weird looking mouth.


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## Oh Jenna (Aug 26, 2014)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> I fail to see how Elliot Rodger is relevant here, honestly.


Who is this Elliot Rodger guy and why does everyone on this site keep talking about him.

Was he a former member or something?


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

Oh Jenna said:


> Who is this Elliot Rodger guy and why does everyone on this site keep talking about him.
> 
> *Was he a former member or something?*


Heh, probably.

He was a crazy guy who murdered several people and subsequently killed himself. You can google him for the more detailed version; I prefer to minimize the discussion about him because there's been way too much and some of the comments have been scary.


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## Puppet Master (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh Jenna said:


> Who is this Elliot Rodger guy and why does everyone on this site keep talking about him.
> 
> Was he a former member or something?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings#Perpetrator

California psycho with an extreme sense of self entitlement who was pissed that women wouldn't date him so he killed a bunch of people is the basic summary. But if you want more that may help.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

HellCell said:


> I knew I was going to get a lot of heat for the comparison. It's not just me who's calling college graduates entitled, you know. It's just a fact of life that nothing is owed to anyone for any reason.
> 
> Yeah, the world is unfair. Hell in a perfect world you should get a job at 16 with no experience. Employers (If not you're own business) will have accommodations to SA while we're at it!


It seems to me that you think that having any expectations out of life is feeling entitled.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> It seems to me that you think that having any expectations out of life is feeling entitled.


That is correct and exactly where I'm getting at, unless there are stipulations to entitlement, such as it's okay for me to beg for $10 but not $100.

According to me, you can panhandle for an entire lifetime and not get a cent. That would be a perfectly fair statement.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

HellCell said:


> That is correct and exactly where I'm getting at, unless there are stipulations to entitlement, such as it's okay for me to beg for $10 but not $100.
> 
> According to me, you can panhandle for an entire lifetime and not get a cent. That would be a perfectly fair statement.


You know what, you're right. I'm an entitled lazy good for nothing piece of ****.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> You know what, you're right. I'm an entitled lazy good for nothing piece of ****.


Yikes! We still want you to be confident about yourself. The virtue of having no entitlements is that anything given to you in life is a privilege rather than a god given right. Nothing is taken for granted.


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## Oh Jenna (Aug 26, 2014)

persona non grata said:


> Heh, probably.
> 
> He was a crazy guy who murdered several people and subsequently killed himself. You can google him for the more detailed version; I prefer to minimize the discussion about him because there's been way too much and some of the comments have been scary.





Puppet Master said:


> California psycho with an extreme sense of self entitlement who was pissed that women wouldn't date him so he killed a bunch of people is the basic summary. But if you want more that may help.


Thanks. I Googled him right after I logged off here and I watched his Youtube video, and I have to say...dumbest reason to go on a mass shooting, ever! I hope this isn't what to expect from people who don't get everything that they want in the near future. Not sure about the comparison to the OP's situation though.

Everybody needs a job to make a living for the most part, Rodger was just a punk who thought he was entitled to casual sex.

Back on topic though, my observation is this: Based on the way student debt is racks up, the day of the "name brand" 4-year college is 100% over.

You're better off going to a community college for a few thousand bucks a semester and transferring to a state school than paying for an over priced, private college with random admission standards and no guarantee you'll find employment.

It's just a shame it took not enough jobs being out there for people to realize this.


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## nic92 (Oct 8, 2014)

A masters won't make you more employable. Not unless it's specific for a job you have lined up.


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## TimeToBegin (Jul 7, 2011)

HellCell said:


> That is correct and exactly where I'm getting at, unless there are stipulations to entitlement, such as it's okay for me to beg for $10 but not $100.
> 
> According to me, you can panhandle for an entire lifetime and not get a cent. That would be a perfectly fair statement.


LOL at your entire mentality. I logged in for the first time in a long time just because I find this conversation to be beyond ridiculous.

The system we're practically forced to live in is obviously rigged. We're required, by law, to attend shi**y institutions that resemble prisons (school) for all of our childhood (no amount of money can buy that back). If "nothing is owed to anyone for any reason" then why did they make me suffer so much for 12 years? I didn't owe them anything and it was against my will. Oh let me guess, it was a "privilege" right? [insert something about being thankful because people in some countries don't even have schools] lol

Then we're told we have to contribute to society, but because practically all employers require a degree for you to even be considered for a remotely decent job, we throw away 4 more years of our lives just to do the same thing all over again, but this time it costs an arm and a leg and it's pretty much worthless. There's something terribly wrong here.

Save the "that's just the way it is" crap, that's not the way it SHOULD be. The only reason it continues is because people accept and put up with it.


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## slowlyimproving (Jan 2, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> A master's will become the new bachelors. You'll need a masters to be a secretary and make coffee for your boss. Modern mass produced education has become such a scam.
> 
> I'm up to my eyeballs in debt, and these *******S HAVE THE AUDACITY TO ASK ME FOR DONATIONS. I guess the money they sucked out of me for 4 years wasn't enough. **** YOU WITH A BROKEN BEER BOTTLE YOU GREEDY MOTHER****ERS. I HOPE EVERYONE MAKING MONEY OFF OF FOOLING STUDENTS BURNS IN HELL.


A lot of degrees are unnecessary. Education has become a HUGE business. New facilities to attract students, which leads to higher costs. It's the administrators/managers that are raking in all the dough. Even the professors are getting screwed-especially adjunct!


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

TimeToBegin said:


> LOL at your entire mentality. I logged in for the first time in a long time just because I find this conversation to be beyond ridiculous.
> 
> The system we're practically forced to live in is obviously rigged. We're required, by law, to attend shi**y institutions that resemble prisons (school) for all of our childhood (no amount of money can buy that back). If "nothing is owed to anyone for any reason" then why did they make me suffer so much for 12 years? I didn't owe them anything and it was against my will. Oh let me guess, it was a "privilege" right? [insert something about being thankful because people in some countries don't even have schools] lol
> 
> ...


I'm glad I contributed in getting you back in action :teeth

I still don't see what's wrong with dropping any sense of entitlement. The only entitlements we should have are the lawfully instituted ones, beyond that is simply being a brat, is it not?

The whole school system is a bit lame, I'm with you there, but education needs to be done somehow. Also you are allowed to drop out at 16, if you want. If you are really pressed on abolishing the school system, you can petition on it, I'm sure you'll succeed, but the government will get on your case about it.

You don't have to contribute to society if you don't want to. College is a choice too.

It's the way it is because humans are a questionable species. Good luck trying to change our ways through politics. I'm sure people have strived for utopic society for ages, but the inherent flaws in collective humanity won't allow for it.


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## TimeToBegin (Jul 7, 2011)

HellCell said:


> I'm glad I contributed in getting you back in action :teeth
> 
> I still don't see what's wrong with dropping any sense of entitlement. The only entitlements we should have are the lawfully instituted ones, beyond that is simply being a brat, is it not?
> 
> ...


I must've missed it, in which part of your post did you actually give a valid counter argument? :teeth

I still don't see what's wrong with having a sense of entitlement when you've been continuously ****ed from behind your entire life. Keep in mind I'm not talking about "people owe me attention and a good lay, women need to look at me".

"Lawfully instituted"? I almost laughed out loud because the law is ANYTHING but reliable, fair, and even logical sometimes. After all, people had the right to own slaves at some point, so I guess it was okay for them to be entitled to that.

No, beyond that it is not simply "being a brat".

"Education needs to be done somehow" and that means school is the only way? Please go. Allowed to drop out at 16, yes, except you forget that 1. You need your parents to sign, and we all know they're lining up for that as we speak and 2. I still wasted an enormous amount of time locked up in a place that I absolutely loathed, obeying people I absolutely loathed, and doing sh** I absolutely loathed. Dropping out does not magically undo all that.

I'm sure you're joking about the "petitioning" bit so I won't even address that.

And there we go with the "college is a choice" cop-out, I was waiting for it. Well technically, a lot of things are choices, but everything is so nicely set up that when we don't choose those things, we get indirectly punished and our lives don't get any easier.

I'm not advocating a utopian society. You're just not able to think past a false dichotomy. Just because things can't be perfect doesn't mean they can't be better.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

HellCell said:


> I'm glad I contributed in getting you back in action :teeth
> 
> I still don't see what's wrong with dropping any sense of entitlement. The only entitlements we should have are the lawfully instituted ones, beyond that is simply being a brat, is it not?
> 
> ...


So, wait, if you wake up tomorrow morning and expect to have running water at your home, you're an entitled brat?


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## Steve French (Sep 17, 2012)

nothing else said:


> if man is still alive....if woman can survive they may find....


I thought this thread was about that song. I was disappointed to open it and not find it.






There we go, problem rectified.


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## Trones (May 15, 2014)

Instead of being so focused on degrees and jobs, why don't you just focus on learning skills that are useful in various ventures???

It also behooves you to be aware of the roles that politics and economics have played throughout history.

I decided not to go for a very lucrative job (mortgage lender) because I didn't believe I was providing any real value or gaining any skills I will need in the future.

Jobs in sales are available everywhere!!!!!

Forget about money, focus on your learning.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> So, wait, if you wake up tomorrow morning and expect to have running water at your home, you're an entitled brat?


There's indoor plumbing laws.

Basically what I'm getting at is, if it's lawfully instituted exercise your right. If not, you're not entitled until you can get a law passed.

So think of this: 
If the law says, everyone must have running water at home, call your home insurance. If they fail to comply, file a lawsuit.
If the law doesn't says if you run out of water, we don't care. Guess what tough luck.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

TimeToBegin said:


> I must've missed it, in which part of your post did you actually give a valid counter argument? :teeth
> 
> I still don't see what's wrong with having a sense of entitlement when you've been continuously ****ed from behind your entire life. Keep in mind I'm not talking about "people owe me attention and a good lay, women need to look at me".
> 
> ...


So there are double standards to entitlement? This isn't an affront, I'm just trying to understand you right.

So if I go to college for 8 years, get a bachelors and masters degree and I maintained a 3.5+ gpa, then I apply for a job. I should effectively be guaranteed say $20/hr? All things considered.

Then let's say I think I'm a 10/10 in looks, yet only girls 7/10 and below are interested in me, I can't have a 10/10? And that is because I'm not allowed to have a good lay, even though my looks justify someone of a similar caliber.

You also say, I failed to invalidate your points as if this wasn't subjective argument. Please tell me more. I want to know how my thinking is wrong.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

HellCell said:


> Then let's say I think I'm a 10/10 in looks, yet only girls 7/10 and below are interested in me, I can't have a 10/10? And that is because I'm not allowed to have a good lay, even though my looks justify someone of a similar calibre.


I actually agree with what you said here.


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## Nekhbet (May 21, 2014)

TimeToBegin said:


> I'm not advocating a utopian society. You're just not able to think past a false dichotomy. *Just because things can't be perfect doesn't mean they can't be better.*


This.


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## TimeToBegin (Jul 7, 2011)

HellCell said:


> So there are double standards to entitlement? This isn't an affront, I'm just trying to understand you right.
> 
> So if I go to college for 8 years, get a bachelors and masters degree and I maintained a 3.5+ gpa, then I apply for a job. I should effectively be guaranteed say $20/hr? All things considered.
> 
> ...


lol you literally didn't reply to any of the points I made, it's like I'm talking to a wall. And I want to think that you're pretending like you don't understand, because I couldn't have been more clear and precise with my wording. It would explain why you keep trying to diverge from the topic by asking nonsensical questions.

Nowhere did I imply you should be guaranteed a job, the answer to the first question is no.

Your second question has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Entirely different matter. You're wrong though, your looks don't justify someone of a similar caliber, if they even justify anything at all.

I see no double standard here, I haven't contradicted myself.

It's not a subjective argument because it is backed up by logic. It's not as if my position is that I like red and yours is that you like blue, that's a truly subjective argument. Clearly what I said is factual. Do we have to go to school by law? Yes. Is law unreliable because it can be and HAS been wrong in the past? Yes. Did I not just in my last reply here use your own logic against you? Yes. Did you completely ignore it? YES. Do I need to go on with this? I mean, seriously. The OP didn't even say anything about being entitled to a job and you came in here spouting crap about entitlement. What the hell are you even talking about?


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

TimeToBegin said:


> lol you literally didn't reply to any of the points I made, it's like I'm talking to a wall. And I want to think that you're pretending like you don't understand, because I couldn't have been more clear and precise with my wording. It would explain why you keep trying to diverge from the topic by asking nonsensical questions.
> 
> Nowhere did I imply you should be guaranteed a job, the answer to the first question is no.
> 
> ...


Now you are just arguing. I'm not going to respond unless you actually have something to say.
I didn't need to respond to any of your points. It was just you complaining about how things aren't going your way.

Basically all I'm asking for is the answer to this question. I say we abolish all entitlements. You tell me why. I listened to why, but it just sounds like you are complaining that life is too tough.
My point remains. I fail to see how you think I'm a wall, unless you are picking for specific words that you want to hear to gain your respect.


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## HellCell (Jul 8, 2014)

TimeToBegin said:


> "Lawfully instituted"? I almost laughed out loud because the law is ANYTHING but reliable, fair, and even logical sometimes. After all, people had the right to own slaves at some point, so I guess it was okay for them to be entitled to that.


Nice straw man you just pulled there.

When I said legally instituted I'm talking about social security and welfare. Those are entitlements that must be reinforced by the government.
As for slavery, that's been deemed politically incorrect since the early 20th century. No is disagreeing with you there.


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