# Should I try and talk to this woman on my bus or skip it?



## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

I realize this is kind of silly, but I'm putting a little poll on the board, and I'd like some honest responses.

I've never, and I mean never, seriously attempted to get a date with a woman or chatted anyone up with the intention/hope of one day going out with them. The idea is foreign to me, although I do like the idea of pushing myself to be able to do it. I'd like your advice on whether it's a good idea to try and talk to this particular woman on my bus.

A woman who regularly rides my bus has kind of caught my attention. She is cute, but not necessarily actress cute, and could be anywhere from 26 to 32, I'd say. The reason I'm interested is that she looks kind of shy. Of course I could be totally wrong, but the unsure, tentative, slightly forlorn expression on her face tells me that she's someone who is a little bashful. She also is very thin, and even has an anorexic cast to her, although of course that might not be the case.

Combined with that, she never looks at _anyone_ whenever I've looked at her. She gets on the bus and seems almost to stare at the floor as she makes her way to the back of the bus. I've tried to look at her as she walks past to find out if she would avert her gaze to anyone (as people usually do when someone is looking at them), but she doesn't. She just makes her way to the back of the bus where I usually sit, pulls out her cell phone and buries her head in it. I heard a guy say "How are you?" to her one day as they were getting on, and she replied "Pretty good, how are you?", so it's clear that she does speak. And she has talked on her cell phone, so she is social I guess (and probably has a boyfriend, with my luck).

Because of my work schedule in the evening, I'm usually getting off the bus a couple stops after she gets on the bus to go home (although she has been on the bus with me going home in the evening several times). As such, I'd only have about a minute to say something to her if I did want to talk to her, before I'd have to get off the bus. I'd like to say "Hi" to her and just find out if I can talk to her, but I don't know if it's wise. Is trying to chat up women on the bus is a good idea? People, especially women, usually have their guard up on the bus, even in a small town such as mine, and might not be that thrilled about being approached by a stranger.

I don't know . . . I'd probably be setting myself up for failure, but I'd like to get your input. Thanks.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I get nervous about cold approaching girls too. I can relate. Every once in awhile I'll see a cute girl on the bus playing with her Blackberry/iPhone/Android and I'm sitting there playing with my Android phone not having the balls to talk to her (a sad society we live in where we are all playing around with our gadgets and not talking to each other). Because I don't want to appear to be a creeper. I don't want to make the girl uncomfortable or bother her.


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## luceo (Jan 29, 2011)




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## David777 (Feb 6, 2011)

I say go for it, Bro!

And good luck!!!


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## roylee1970 (Dec 11, 2011)

Just smile and say, "hi" to start. Continue to do it every ride until she gets used to you and it leads to more. This is a good slow start for the both of you. Or you can just go on wondering everyday what might have happened if you had said hi.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I didn't even have to read to OP's first post to know what my answer was going to be.

*
ALWAYS GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT!* There is absolutely NO reason why you shouldn't!

To hell with leagues.
To hell with nervousness.
To hell with rejection.
To hell with this being your 100th rejection in a row.

You got nothing to lose.


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Try it and see what happens.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

First off, it's your right to approach anyone you want at any time..

Example (she has her cellphone out):

You: "Hey, what kind of cell phone is that?"

Her: "It's a blackberry"

You: "Really? I've been thinking about getting one of those. Are they any good? What exactly does it do?"

Her: "Yeah, it's cool. It does.... and... and..."

You: "Sweet. I have a ____ cell phone. I was thinking about switching it over. I'll have to look into that kind."

You: "I'm ____ btw. What's your name?"

Her: "Megan"

You: "Cool, yeah, sorry, I've seen you on this bus before and I thought I'd just say hello."

You: "No car? Or you just hate driving?"

Her: "Oh no, I don't have a car right now"

You: "Why not?"

Her: "Eh, would rather take the bus I guess -- less expensive."

You: "Yeah, I know what you mean. I ride the bus because...."



The whole point of you starting a conversation is to get her to warm up to you. The first question you ask shouldn't be alarming to her. You should ask a question that you can talk about -- something like her cell phone. Make it seem like you approached her because you were curious about something or you wanted to talk about something.

It seems complicated but it's easy after the initial approach because the conversation will flow if you listen to what she says and either ask more questions about that subject or give feedback. Let her know that your a friendly guy.

If your having doubts about what to say just read the dialog above and come up with different conversations you can start; think about how they would end up and just keep doing different ones until you feel confident you will have a lot to talk about.

Since you see her everyday on the bus you don't have to get her number this time around, but the next time you see her you'll want to converse with her again and get her number.

To get her number you'll want to be talking to her a little bit. Start up a conversation and show her your a friendly guy who's laid back and just interested in her company and what she has to say. After the conversation has flowed and exchanged back and forth a little ask for her name or ask her personal questions like if she drives a car or if she goes to school (personally, I avoid asking where she lives or where she works as she may not want to give a stranger that information). Once a little personal chatter has gone back and forth you can say something like, "Well hey, my stop is coming up pretty soon. It was cool talking with you. Do you like to text?".... if she says yes then say, "Oh cool. What's your number? I'll text/call ya sometime"....make sure to thank her and smile and be friendly and then exit.

Just some ideas. Start with a conversation that can get you two talking like some sort of observation with her or the situation.... then talk a little bit about it...then ask her semi-personal questions like why isn't she driving her car.... talk a little about that...share your views...talk a little about yourself..... then you can ask for her name and give your name when the personal barrier is broken....before her or you leaves the bus ask if she likes to text... thank her for the number and text her later that day or the next day...


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm going to say DO IT. But I literally cannot think of a non creepy, non corny way to approach this girl, since she's not giving off any "approach me" signs. By the way, do not ask her what her cellphone does LOL.

I don't know you guys have it cut out for you..I prefer compliments to initiate, but they can be taken in a creeper sense if she's not into you. A simple question about her also works..

Good luck =)


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

You can try but I think whether you get a number or not will depend more on how attractive you are than anything.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

komorikun said:


> You can try but I think whether you get a number or not will depend more on how attractive you are than anything.


But he will have an idea if she's into him or not in the first couple of exchanges. If she's just totally giving off the leave me alone vibe when he's initiating conversation, then he knows not to push it and cross that line, but if her body language and responsiveness to carry on the conversation is positive, then at least he'll have a shot at it..

*I think that's where a lot of men go wrong. Not picking up on clues as to whether the girl they're hitting on are responding positively/negatively to the situation.


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## luceo (Jan 29, 2011)

calichick said:


> but as Luceo pointed out that can be taken in a creeper sense if she's not into you.


That's not at all what I meant by posting that comic.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Does this also apply to online dating? (the whole "you can tell if she likes you by the vibe she puts off in the first couple exchanges") I was talking to a woman (9 years my senior. lol I don't mind cougars) yesterday on this site (it's more casual sex oriented. I'll say that much) and she actually friend requested me after I messaged her. So I take it she might have at least thought I was cute. But then when it came to the actual conversation, she barely talked. I was pulling pretty much all the weight. It was frustrating.

I think part of it was that she probably thought it was weird (she said something about it being pretty cold for a run. lol) that I told her that I went for a run (I live in Toronto, where it's pretty cold out this time of the year). But running is a year-round activity. I try to go for a run daily. My sister does too. My friends who are into running do. The people at the Running Room do. But whatever. I'm not going to have to try to explain myself to the uninitiated and have to self-censor myself wondering if what I tell them might seem weird or not.

Online dating is a frustrating experience. Even if a girl has placed me in the friend zone in real-life, they treat you with more respect when you talk to them face-to-face.

I don't know. It seems like my attractiveness can reel girls in but then I turn them off somehow when I start talking to them. Or it could just be those particular people don't gel with me. I've had enjoyable conversation with girls on here. The one criticism I've really had from others is that I have a tendency to go off talking about myself way more than asking the other person about their self. But I did not do this in this case. I asked her how she was... and she's like is "good and u?" Maybe I should have asked"what are you up to?" because I hate it when they give you a one word answer and then bring it back to you. When getting to know someone, I actually don't mind being the one who does all the listening. It's when I get comfortable that I'm more likely to talk way too much about myself.

Also when you've had past experiences when girls are actually eager to talk to you and then you go from that to having to pull teeth with women, that is a huge turn off. I like women who show an eagerness to talk to me and are assertive and don't have this "the guy has to initiate everything" mindset. Even if they only want to because they think I'm cute.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

phoenixwright said:


> Does this also apply to online dating? (the whole "you can tell if she likes you by the vibe she puts off in the first couple exchanges") I was talking to a woman (9 years my senior. lol I don't mind cougars) yesterday on this site (it's more casual sex oriented. I'll say that much) and she actually friend requested me after I messaged her. So I take it she might have at least thought I was cute. But then when it came to the actual conversation, she barely talked. I was pulling pretty much all the weight. It was frustrating.
> 
> I think part of it was that she probably thought it was weird (she said something about it being pretty cold for a run. lol) that I told her that I went for a run (I live in Toronto, where it's pretty cold out this time of the year). But running is a year-round activity. I try to go for a run daily. My sister does too. My friends who are into running do. The people at the Running Room do. But whatever. I'm not going to have to try to explain myself to the uninitiated and have to self-censor myself wondering if what I tell them might seem weird or not.
> 
> ...


The world of online dating is totally different. First off, the physical attraction factor is pretty much the entire emphasis, and also you cannot get a feel for sensory (body language, facial expressions, etc) clues.

I can tell you that her being "standoffish" didn't have to do at all with the fact that you mentioned you were going for a run in the cold. She probably just wasn't that into you. Keep in mind that most women have an almost *unlimited* constant surge of options when it comes to men online. It's completely biased, especially if you say you were on a casual sex site...

Also the initial exchanges online can be a make or break factor. If a guy says 2 words like "What's up?" it may show that he's messaging as many girls possible and didn't take the time to thoughtfully consider the profile/write a sincere response (again this is biased since girls get messaged more). It doesn't matter which way you ask "How are you?" or "What are you doing," because it doesn't really give the girl a feel for how interested you are in her.

So yea, online, if she seems standoffish it's 1) she's not that into you (attraction factor), 2) she senses you're not completely into her.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I was using the on-site IM system. I figured a hey and how are you were perfectly fine for IM. I had already messaged her via the site's email before and she replied to me. And she added me to her friends list. So I thought she was interested.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> I'm going to say DO IT. But I literally cannot think of a non creepy, non corny way to approach this girl, since she's not giving off any "approach me" signs. By the way, do not ask her what her cellphone does LOL.
> 
> I don't know you guys have it cut out for you..I prefer compliments to initiate, but they can be taken in a creeper sense if she's not into you. A simple question about her also works..
> 
> Good luck =)


You can ask w/e you want to ask, cell phone or not.

I agree, a lot of it is based on looks too. So if your not reall yin her league then she probably won't give you a chance.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Sure. Might want to warm up with a "hi" or something.


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## Jenikyula gone mad (Nov 9, 2009)

Yes! Talk to her. Smile at her and then say something like "Hey, want to get coffee sometime?" Compliment her shoes or something. DO NOT say something like "hey do you have a mirror in your pants? because i can see myself in them." 

But do it only if you're not creepy. Don't leer at her, be astoundingly cute and wholesome, like a puppy. I'm only guessing here, but it doesn't sound like she'd take well to immediate sexy flirting.


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## Whatev (Feb 6, 2012)

Yes talk to her, if you dont your always going to wonder what if? Good luck!


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## Jenikyula gone mad (Nov 9, 2009)

bwidger85 said:


> First off, it's your right to approach anyone you want at any time..
> 
> Example (she has her cellphone out):
> 
> ...


Dude, that is the MOST BORING conversation in the world, plus it comes off as a little creepy (why do you wanna know my business??). I would urge the OP to got off the bus before actually having a conversation with her. FIRST ask her if she's even interested, THEN have the conversation. Most women will talk to men just to be polite. Seriously. The fact that she might answer your insanely boring questions does not mean she is into you.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Jenikyula gone mad said:


> Dude, that is the MOST BORING conversation in the world, plus it comes off as a little creepy (why do you wanna know my business??). I would urge the OP to got off the bus before actually having a conversation with her. FIRST ask her if she's even interested, THEN have the conversation. Most women will talk to men just to be polite. Seriously. The fact that she might answer your insanely boring questions does not mean she is into you.


Me: "Hey are you interested?"

What kind of a opening conversation is that? Insanely boring? What else is there to tlak about dumbass. Either way, it's gonna be a little boring if you look at it that way or if your a boring person in the first place.

How fanstastic will the conversation be AFTER you ask if she's interested? Like somehow that is gonna make every great and peachy you idiot

why would i wantg to know her buisness? because im hitting on her dummy

What's the difference between smiling, giving a compliment and starting a conversation? Smiling and giving compliments are weak unless you have some sort of conversation (only girls look and smile and don't talk). Instead of knocking what I say, give a better diolog of conversation


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

bwidger85 said:


> I didn't even have to read to OP's first post to know what my answer was going to be.
> 
> *
> ALWAYS GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT!* There is absolutely NO reason why you shouldn't!
> ...


I agree, go for it. Nothing wrong with saying "hey" or initiating a longer conversation.


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## dkriot (Dec 12, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Instead of knocking what I say, give a better diolog of conversation


I would also like to hear an example of a conversation. Because I am trying to just start random conversations with people everyday as a part of my exposure therapy. I didn't realize making small chit chat was so annoying and abrasive to people. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and keep to myself.


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## dominicwalli (May 12, 2011)

Jenikyula gone mad said:


> Dude, that is the MOST BORING conversation in the world, plus it comes off as a little creepy (why do you wanna know my business??). I would urge the OP to got off the bus before actually having a conversation with her. FIRST ask her if she's even interested, THEN have the conversation. Most women will talk to men just to be polite. Seriously. The fact that she might answer your insanely boring questions does not mean she is into you.


maybe just talking with her would b enough??he doesnt need a wife by the ned of the week or anything.lmao,ask her if shes interested first??wth?have u hitting on a boy with that line?


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## dkriot (Dec 12, 2011)

dominicwalli said:


> maybe just talking with her would b enough??he doesnt need a wife by the ned of the week or anything.lmao,ask her if shes interested first??wth?have u hitting on a boy with that line?


If the first words out of a random girl's mouth to me was, "Are you interested in me?" I would probably think she was a nutjob or extremely vain. Who the hell starts a conversation like that. I know I am not an expert on communication but that seems like terrible advice to me.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

dkriot said:


> I would also like to hear an example of a conversation. Because I am trying to just start random conversations with people everyday as a part of my exposure therapy. I didn't realize making small chit chat was so annoying and abrasive to people. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and keep to myself.


That is an interesting observation, because my attention-starved self would love for people to come up and talk to me. Nerve-wracking, sure, but it would be nice.


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## falco (Jun 1, 2011)

Definitely go and talk to her, or she might start riding other bus and you won't see her again, you can't let that happen.

Either you will find a new partner or friend, or at some point she will tell you that she is not interested (directly or with her cold conversation), so you won't loose anything


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

dkriot:1059645299 said:


> dominicwalli said:
> 
> 
> > maybe just talking with her would b enough??he doesnt need a wife by the ned of the week or anything.lmao,ask her if shes interested first??wth?have u hitting on a boy with that line?
> ...


I agree but jenk is DTF so maybe that works for those girls if she thinks you are cute? Lol. I doubt it though.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Jenikyula gone mad said:


> But do it only if you're not creepy.


I dont think they have a sense for their creepiness factor LOL

Even when some men are told over and over that they creep, they dont believe it..


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

It doesn't matter what you say. People want to put emphasis on "creepy" or "boring" when in fact a few things _really _matter:

1. If you approach and start a conversation about anything
2. If she's interested, which often is NOT because of what you say (unless you say something really stupid or creepy but you won't)

Really, that's it. Just focus on approaching saying anything. It doesn't matter what you say, and don't worry about appearing "creepy". Do your thing and approach her. If she likes you then she likes you; if she doesn't then she doesn't. Main thing is you tried.

Obviously, he has to approach her on the bus because their stops are different...


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> I dont think they have a sense for their creepiness factor LOL
> 
> Even when some men are told over and over that they creep, they dont believe it..


Define "creep". And give an example if you would.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

dkriot said:


> I would also like to hear an example of a conversation. Because I am trying to just start random conversations with people everyday as a part of my exposure therapy. I didn't realize making small chit chat was so annoying and abrasive to people. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and keep to myself.


The only way people meet other people is if they talk to each other. Say w/e you want to say to someone.. just be friendly and not rude and I really don't see how your a "creep" by doing this. The girls and guys who are "annoyed" by nice people talking to them need grow up and come down from cloud 9 for a second. One day no one is gonna approach them and they'll miss the days when people did.

A "creep" is a guy who stares abrasively and doesn't say a word. A creep is a guy who will get off the bus and follow that girl down the road and down her street and by her mailbox. A creep is a guy who finds the girl on facebook and constantly emails, ims after she says she's not interested, etc. That's creepy. A guy who is friendly and initiates conversations IS NOT creepy. That term is used like freakin water anymore.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

It seems like "creepy" means a guy who is interested in a woman, but she isn't interested in him! I think the term gets overused these days.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

dkriot said:


> If the first words out of a random girl's mouth to me was, "Are you interested in me?" I would probably think she was a nutjob or extremely vain. Who the hell starts a conversation like that. I know I am not an expert on communication but that seems like terrible advice to me.


Yes, that's why small talk warms two people up. OK, maybe my cell phone dialog example wasn't that great. I tried to think of a a better one but that one came up first.

An approach based on a compliment isn't a bad idea but how are you going to follow up after that? I'm sure you can but it's not my style (I guess I'm boring). PLus, I like to talk about stuff I may be interested in because that way I'm actually interested in what she has to say. I could care less about where she got her shoes from or how pretty her nails are or where she got her dress from. I could ask but I wouldn't be on that subject long at all.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

joinmartin said:


> "Do you come here often?" Never, ever, ever use that one. Seriously. I was at school, she was at school. I'd read a book on chat up lines and that one bombed. The rest of the conversation followed along with things like: "yeah, the government kinda makes us come here" and her laughing a lot.


Sounds like it worked to me.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Joinmartin, I'd probably laugh if I saw that happen too. That's pretty funny!

I've done some really crappy approaches before too. I remember when I thought I was like david deangelo back when I was 19 and I was trying out "cocky and funny" and I was in a mall. I came out of the dressing room after talking to this girl who was at the counter...I started walking towards the counter and ran into an isle of clothes knocking everything over. That's was fun (not).

Another time I approached these girls at the bar and they looked at me and said, "Ugh, that's not how you approach girls! Your so lame" and they straight up laughed at me. I figured they were a bunch of stuck-up *****es, and I'm stick convinced that they are.

I've heard a lot of bad things. I've also seen some success from it too. Like I said, what it really comes down to is if the girl is interested. It's a 50/50 type thing where basically you do your part, which is typically approaching, and the girl does hers which is usually accepting or declining you. Beyond that, there isn't much else you can do. Some girls are nice and some are real *****es, but that's dating. I'm still not immune to it, but that's what you gotta expect.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah, starting off a conversation with "Are you interested in me?" is one of the creepiest ways to go about it. That's what flirting is for, to let someone know you're interested and to see if they're interested back. You don't outright ask if a girl is attracted to you. I'm on board with the other conversation posted, where it was just small talk about whatever's easiest, like the cell phone. It's not exciting, but that's small talk, and it opens up doors to future conversations that could build into something more.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> Define "creep". And give an example if you would.


*Creep*: An undesirable male who has an inflated sense of ego (feels that his status is higher than what it actually is among society); is_ persistent_ in endeavors to earn female approval for a date or sex etc.

Example: 
Ugly guy from the club was *creeping* on me the whole night, trying to get me to go home with him.

:teeth


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## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks for all your comments. I know that just trying to chat with someone, anyone, is something I should do, but it's hard when I've had absolutely no experience at the age of 35. Plus, I'm going through an uncertain time at the moment, faced with the likelihood that I'll lose the very bus route I'm referring to in a few months (as a result of a greedy transit union and diminished state funding), and thus all of my transportation, as I can't drive. This means that I won't be able to get to any job unless I move to a completely different area of the city, something I don't want to do. 

As a result, actually trying to strike up anything with anybody isn't really a priority, but if I found myself in a situation with someone where I felt confident, I might give it a go. With the girl I mentioned, I usually am only on the bus with her for a minute or two before I get off and she goes the other way, but several times I've been on the same bus going home, with only one or two other people aboard, and I've literally been on the verge of just saying "Hi" and introducing myself or something, but stopped myself because it just didn't seem right to invade someone's reverie on a bus ride. 

As for topics, I think the more boring the better. You don't want to use some pick-up line. Since these yearly bus cuts we have affect all riders, I was thinking about asking her what she thinks about the situation. People have been discussing what "creepy" is, and I agree that it's overused, but I hope it doesn't apply to me. I think I'm pretty good at knowing when people don't like me (hell, I don't like me).


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> *Creep*: An undesirable male who has an inflated sense of ego (feels that his status is higher than what it actually is among society); is_ persistent_ in endeavors to earn female approval for a date or sex etc.
> 
> Example:
> Ugly guy from the club was *creeping* on me the whole night, trying to get me to go home with him.
> ...


I guess it'd do men and women a favor if us guys (and women) could learn how to tell if a girl/guy is uninterested or not. You wrote about that earlier in this thread and I should pay more attention to that. It does explain why girls can be extremely upfront and opinionated about how they don't want to talk to you. I hate to creep girls out but I probably do a lot.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

IcedOver said:


> Thanks for all your comments. I know that just trying to chat with someone, anyone, is something I should do, but it's hard when I've had absolutely no experience at the age of 35. Plus, I'm going through an uncertain time at the moment, faced with the likelihood that I'll lose the very bus route I'm referring to in a few months (as a result of a greedy transit union and diminished state funding), and thus all of my transportation, as I can't drive. This means that I won't be able to get to any job unless I move to a completely different area of the city, something I don't want to do.
> 
> As a result, actually trying to strike up anything with anybody isn't really a priority, but if I found myself in a situation with someone where I felt confident, I might give it a go. With the girl I mentioned, I usually am only on the bus with her for a minute or two before I get off and she goes the other way, but several times I've been on the same bus going home, with only one or two other people aboard, and I've literally been on the verge of just saying "Hi" and introducing myself or something, but stopped myself because it just didn't seem right to invade someone's reverie on a bus ride.
> 
> As for topics, I think the more boring the better. You don't want to use some pick-up line. Since these yearly bus cuts we have affect all riders, I was thinking about asking her what she thinks about the situation. People have been discussing what "creepy" is, and I agree that it's overused, but I hope it doesn't apply to me. I think I'm pretty good at knowing when people don't like me (hell, I don't like me).


Yeah, I guess the best way to approach anyone is to be considerate of the other person's feelings. Sometimes it's hard to gauge though. Got to start somewhere. gl


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Apparently I'm at odds with everyone else here, but I wouldn't want to be approached by someone on the bus. Buses are awkward and uncomfortable places, and it seems to me that the unspoken rule is no talking to strangers. It's particularly awkward because you're in such close quarters and everyone can overhear.


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## dkriot (Dec 12, 2011)

calichick said:


> *Creep*: An undesirable male who has an inflated sense of ego (feels that his status is higher than what it actually is among society); is_ persistent_ in endeavors to earn female approval for a date or sex etc.
> 
> Example:
> Ugly guy from the club was *creeping* on me the whole night, trying to get me to go home with him.
> ...


Does it always have to be a male? Because reading some of your posts you fit this criteria quite nicely. The irony of your post is pretty lulz worthy.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

dkriot said:


> Does it always have to be a male? Because reading some of your posts you fit this criteria quite nicely. The irony of your post is pretty lulz worthy.


See there's a difference there, I have a huge ego (I do model after all lmao), because I've been getting a lot of attention from men my whole life, it's hard not to get into narcissist mode...I never approach anyone, they approach me, I'm just extremely shy.

Comprende? 

Btw you shouldn't get off topic in IcedOvers thread, just FYI


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

calichick:1059647503 said:


> dkriot said:
> 
> 
> > Does it always have to be a male? Because reading some of your posts you fit this criteria quite nicely. The irony of your post is pretty lulz worthy.
> ...


During my pretending to be a hot chick online experiment, I would sometimes hit on guys and the response was positive. lol. Being an attractive woman is sooooo easy and guys are soooo easy to figure out. Girls should be more assertive and go after the guys they want. Women don't have the creeper factor like guys do. So they can get away with aggressive. Id say to the guys "you are cute " during the experiment. It's hard for me to have the balls to be that forward with a girl in the beginning. That's why I like girls who are assertive and give off that flirtatious vibe right in the beginning.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

bwidger85 said:


> I guess it'd do men and women a favor if us guys (and women) could learn how to tell if a girl/guy is uninterested or not. You wrote about that earlier in this thread and I should pay more attention to that. It does explain why girls can be extremely upfront and opinionated about how they don't want to talk to you. I hate to creep girls out but I probably do a lot.


It definitely would be nice if the signals were more obvious. With me they'd almost have to come right out and say it. :b


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

fanatic203 said:


> It's particularly awkward because you're in such close quarters and everyone can overhear.


I don't like that aspect of social interaction either.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

I think he was just referring to the funding situation, which is what many cities are going through.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

LOL good point.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

phoenixwright said:


> Being an attractive woman is sooooo easy and guys are soooo easy to figure out. Girls should be more assertive and go after the guys they want.


I'm glad guys are expected to initiate. I would [email protected] myself if I had to ask someone out.


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

calichick said:


> I'm glad guys are expected to initiate. I would [email protected] myself if I had to ask someone out.


I'm not, lol. More pressure on SA guys.

Seriously, there are some girls who don't buy into the gender role thing.


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## dkriot (Dec 12, 2011)

calichick said:


> See there's a difference there, I have a huge ego (I do model after all lmao), because I've been getting a lot of attention from men my whole life, it's hard not to get into narcissist mode...I never approach anyone, they approach me, I'm just extremely shy.
> 
> Comprende?
> 
> Btw you shouldn't get off topic in IcedOvers thread, just FYI


Woah I didn't realize I was dealing with such a big deal over here. Sorry that I was treating you based on your personality and temperament instead of your supposed 'model-esque looks'. I am sorry you are having such a hard time not being an egoist. Maybe you should reread some of your own posts later on and maybe that will help you come down to earth.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

dkriot said:


> I am sorry you are having such a hard time not being an egoist. Maybe you should reread some of your own posts later on and maybe that will help you come down to earth.


:blank

You highlighted the definition of a creep.

I told you I've never approached a male in my life.

Understood?

Also, being down to earth is overrated.

After all, if you can afford a view from the top, why not take it?


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## DrMarianus (Dec 21, 2011)

komorikun said:


> You can try but I think whether you get a number or not will depend more on how attractive you are than anything.


 I regret to say that I find your perspective on these things very superficial. If anything, it will be the talking part of the "approach" (dreadful terminology) that decides whether one gets the phone number or not.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

DrMarianus said:


> I regret to say that I find your perspective on these things very superficial. If anything, it will be the talking part of the "approach" (dreadful terminology) that decides whether one gets the phone number or not.


You can't really show off how wonderful a person you are in a 5 minute conversation. Well, unless you are super smooth but I kind of doubt those sort of people are on this website.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Why though? I haven't seen you but if you are sexy and you know it, why are you so afraid to approach? When I roleplayed as the hot chick, it was super easy to approach. As a guy, I'm only really aggressive when a girl gives me obvious vibes.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

phoenixwright said:


> Why though? I haven't seen you but if you are sexy and you know it, why are you so afraid to approach?


You want to know why? Because when *you* approach someone you automatically give them the upper hand. You're no longer in control, the ball is in their court, leaving you vulnerable to anything. You should always have the advantage...He doesn't want to make the first move? Then it shows that he's not really that into you, so next.

Anywho that's just how I think..No pain, no gain lol


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

phoenixwright said:


> Why though? I haven't seen you but if you are sexy and you know it, why are you so afraid to approach? When I roleplayed as the hot chick, it was super easy to approach. As a guy, I'm only really aggressive when a girl gives me obvious vibes.


Why? Because hot women often don't HAVE to because they get enough offers just going about their daily activities. I think this is a skill in itself to be able to be passive and still get what you want because often a lot of guys wait on cues I suppose.

However, don't think they don't approach. Some do. And as expected, they probably don't have that bad a rejection record.

On a personal note, on the occasions I am put into the situation where a girl shows interest in me and approaches me it is a weird feeling, and I think it's because I'm not used to being in that position. I think being a girl who is being approached takes some social skill to handle. You have your options of how you can react but for the most part most are polite about it, and, again, this takes social skill and learning. I'm not really convinced being approached verse approaching is that much or less awkward/difficult. Each side has a different obligation to respond, which, in my opinion, can be challenging. I think it's awkward as long as you think it's awkward for any side.

Sometimes I feel approaching is less stressful because your often prepared to do it, but I don't know for sure. I think often when you're approached you're not ready unless it happens a lot, and because you're not ready you're not really prepared to ask for a number or date or w/e so your in a position of being at the whim of simply responding. Sometimes I don't like being in that position. At least the pursuer is in control of the situation up until they get rejected lol. If a girl approaches me it's a 50/50 type thing because when I'm not prepared I sometimes won't go from being passive into the pursuer (asking for her number), so sometimes I'll find myself WAITING for her to make her pitch and close me lol. A lot of girls do this too.... they approach and then expect a man to take over from there but often the guy isn't ready for it...so it's difficult for both sides I would imagine. My advice to anyone who wants something from someone and they approach: make sure to take the lead from start to finish because it makes the process a whole lot easier; don't expect to approach and then have the person take over.

(your verse you're....god i do that a lot lol)


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> On a personal note, on the occasions I am put into the situation where a girl shows interest in me and approaches me it is a weird feeling, and I think it's because I'm not used to being in that position. I think being a girl who is being approached takes some social skill to handle. You have your options of how you can react but for the most part most are polite about it, and, again, this takes social skill and learning. I'm not really convinced being approached verse approaching is that much or less awkward/difficult.


Trust me, being approached is a whole lot easier lol. It's a weird feeling, but it's a self‐esteem boost no matter who it is. The other way around, you have your self esteem on the line.

The situation you're talking about, where the girl approaches you and expects you to "complete the transaction" lol) is the reality for men, because a lot of females while they will approach a male they're interested in, still kind of expect the guy to come on to them, after dropping those subtle hints.

So in either case, you have to be the man about it.

~~~For some reason, I don't know coincidence or not, the females that I know who have gone the "whole way" (even some proposing to their spouses/asking guy to move in/asking out on date from the beginning), don't seem to have that much luck in keeping those males. I don't know if this signals anything like what I was saying before, you give the male the advantage, you are vulnerable to anything. If you have to initiate and he doesn't make the first move, what does it really mean...?

Anyways that's just what I've noticed and why I'm iffy about approaching a guy, (aside from the fact that I'm extremely shy)


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

It's not like us guys are naturally born with the ability to approach. That is why you search on google and all you'll find is questions on how to approach girls, girls, and more girls. If you search on google on how a woman can approach a guy the results are miniscule in comparison. I know I wasn't born with this ability to just randomly approach girls and feel confident about it. I still don't feel 100% confident with it but I do it because I have to.

I think a lot of girls just need practice approaching. There are instances where I've known lots of women approach guys and have it work out, and some have done it on this site as well (SAS girls). It's by coincidence the women who approach men get rejected. Another interesting factor that contributes to this is that I would assume the "selector" is the one who will face less rejection ultimately... what this means is that the women you've known to pursue are facing greater odds of rejection and thus it just tends to happen more as a result of those odds. I don't think it has anything to do with them being a woman and pursuing.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

But if a woman were to pursue, what would be her end goal?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

komorikun said:


> But if a woman were to pursue, what would be her end goal?


Isn't that up to the individual?

I do it because I want to date so I usually go for a number because if I don't I will never see the girl again.

All I know is if a man/woman doesn't try to get some form of contact information then they are risking never seeing that person again.

Edit:
If a woman gives her number out to a man after approaching him I don't think this is bad either--they don't have to ask for a man's number


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

In general, I just think women have got a good deal with the dating thing unless they are really unattractive. It doesn't have to be this way but it is this way in our society. Just because it is this way doesn't mean it HAS to be this way. By all means, women should take advantage of this and approach if they aren't getting the results they want.

Heck, if women are really curious as what it's like to be an average guy or semi-decent looking guy on POF then make a fake profile and send out messages and you'll see what it's like very fast. Also, notice the first messages you get (the few) and compare them and you'll see a similarity.

EDIT:
On the same token, women are less respected by ignorant pats of society, so it's not like everything is all gravy for them ether...a good looking girl on youtube can't even make a video of herself without having 70-90% of the dudes saying some sexual comment to her...it just makes the dating polarity even more one-sided when guys do this... i'm going way off topic...


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> It's not like us guys are naturally born with the ability to approach. That is why you search on google and all you'll find is questions on how to approach girls, girls, and more girls. If you search on google on how a woman can approach a guy the results are miniscule in comparison. I know I wasn't born with this ability to just randomly approach girls and feel confident about it. I still don't feel 100% confident with it but I do it because I have to.
> 
> I think a lot of girls just need practice approaching. There are instances where I've known lots of women approach guys and have it work out, and some have done it on this site as well (SAS girls). It's by coincidence the women who approach men get rejected. Another interesting factor that contributes to this is that I would assume the "selector" is the one who will face less rejection ultimately... what this means is that the women you've known to pursue are facing greater odds of rejection and thus it just tends to happen more as a result of those odds. I don't think it has anything to do with them being a woman and pursuing.


Actually it can be argued that from brain function, to hormones to libido, men are more naturally routed to approach the opposite sex.

There are less results on Google for women approaching men because less women are inclined to have that incentive, thus supply and demand.

But the thing that I was talking about before was not "initial rejection," but eventual rejection. Female goes after male. Catches him. However it ends when male leaves female. Something like that. Maybe because people like the thrill of the chase, I mean men are competitive in nature so if a female gives herself immediately to him...But then again, a lot of people get bored in relationships...


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Why? Because hot women often don't HAVE to because they get enough offers just going about their daily activities. I think this is a skill in itself to be able to be passive and still get what you want because often a lot of guys wait on cues I suppose.
> )


Honestly I don't know how girls can live like that you know? Not going after what they want! That is the big advantage of being the approacher (that word doesn't exist in the English language according to Google Chrome's spell check. WINNING). We choose from a large pool. They just select from multiple choice options. You see a cute guy you want, you approach him. Simple as that. You don't just pray to the Gods that he will approach you.



calichick said:


> Actually it can be argued that from brain function, to hormones to libido, men are more naturally routed to approach the opposite sex.
> 
> There are less results on Google for women approaching men because less women are inclined to have that incentive, thus supply and demand.
> 
> But the thing that I was talking about before was not "initial rejection," but eventual rejection. Female goes after male. Catches him. However it ends when male leaves female. Something like that. Maybe because people like the thrill of the chase, I mean men are competitive in nature so if a female gives herself immediately to him...But then again, a lot of people get bored in relationships...


Sure you may get lots of guys approaching you. But whatever happened to going after what you want? If there's a cute guy you want to talk to, why not go for it? You can't just assume that he's not interested. Trust me on this. This girl I'm really into. She actually approached me. And I'm crazy about her. This is the 21st century. There's nothing wrong with gender roles being broken. I find that I am down more with girls who are more assertive and more like one of the guys. I like androgynous women (not in terms of looks. But personality).


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> Actually it can be argued that from brain function, to hormones to libido, men are more naturally routed to approach the opposite sex.
> 
> There are less results on Google for women approaching men because less women are inclined to have that incentive, thus supply and demand.
> 
> But the thing that I was talking about before was not "initial rejection," but eventual rejection. Female goes after male. Catches him. However it ends when male leaves female. Something like that. Maybe because people like the thrill of the chase, I mean men are competitive in nature so if a female gives herself immediately to him...But then again, a lot of people get bored in relationships...


I'm sure there probably is a biological component to it, but if a woman approaches she's as just in good position to make something out of it as a male.

Women aren't competitive? Oh, I don't know about that one...

At the same time however, why is it women can take control of their jobs; careers; education, etc, but can't approach? I honestly think many women don't do it as an excuse. A lot don't have to. Some do whether they have to or not, so when I hear guys and girls say it's "not right" for women to approach I think it's an excuse. Women can approach. Do you think men just thoroughly enjoy being rejected? No.

I think once in a relationship that is when you see a different sexual dynamic really happen naturally, but not on an approach.

If, generally, the women found themselves without any man approaching you would definitely see an increase of aggressive women perusing.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

phoenixwright said:


> Honestly I don't know how girls can live like that you know? Not going after what they want! That is the big advantage of being the approacher (that word doesn't exist in the English language according to Google Chrome's spell check. WINNING). We choose from a large pool. They just select from multiple choice options. You see a cute guy you want, you approach him. Simple as that. You don't just pray to the Gods that he will approach you.


Yeah, at least approaching you make a narrow choice option. People usually don't take rejection-risks unless there is a good reward.

Women do approach but definitely not nearly as often as men. I think before I started approaching women I didn't think I could do it, so it's not like men have this naturally "manly" ability to not fear rejection. Men may be naturally more aggressive towards certain things but we still hurt form rejection unless one is simply used to it or one of those rare people who really doesn't give a crap.


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## brothersport (Dec 3, 2011)

Go for it! Start a friendly convo. Good luck!


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

phoenixwright said:


> Sure you may get lots of guys approaching you. But whatever happened to going after what you want? If there's a cute guy you want to talk to, why not go for it?


Because I've never really had to? lol Females have ways of letting guys know they're interested too, primarily eye contact or making yourself stand out (wearing that outfit, wearing those heels, dolling yourself up). The hard part I find is actually talking to men....I don't know how to relate to them..



> I find that I am down more with girls who are more assertive and more like one of the guys. I like androgynous women (not in terms of looks. But personality).


It's funny you say that, because my past history of relations with men have involved very timid/less assertive guys:lol I like to know that I'm in control haha



bwidger85 said:


> At the same time however, why is it women can take control of their jobs; careers; education, etc, but can't approach?


The difference between these situations is that job/career/education=individual pursuits, relationships involve two people. Women in general prefer dominant men. Dominance is an indicator (although not necessarily a positive indicator) of stability...it goes back to evolution, the hunter‐gatherer mentality.. Obviously there are exceptions, some women seek doormats to walk on and be in control..


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> The difference between these situations is that job/career/education=individual pursuits, relationships involve two people. Women in general prefer dominant men. Dominance is an indicator (although not necessarily a positive indicator) of stability...it goes back to evolution, the hunter‐gatherer mentality.. Obviously there are exceptions, some women seek doormats to walk on and be in control..


Well, if this is the case then things aren't gonna change anytime soon!

To be honest, a masculine woman is a big turnoff for me so you may be on to something here.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't like dominant men. I prefer more passive types, so I can be in control. But in the beginning I don't want to be the one calling up the guy and trying to woo him or deciding the exact restaurant/bar to go to; I'll do that later once the relationship has started.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

komorikun said:


> I don't like dominant men. I prefer more passive types, so I can be in control. But in the beginning I don't want to be the one calling up the guy and trying to woo him or deciding the exact restaurant/bar to go to; I'll do that later once the relationship has started.


Why is it you prefer a man to take the lead in the beginning? Is it because your afraid to do it yourself or is it because it's attractive to you or what?

Btw, a buddy of mine was approached by this girl at a party and he is passive. She loves him to death and won't leave him alone either!

Also, when I said a masculine woman I mean one that is negatively controlling and stuff like that. A women in a powerful position does nothing for me; I'm neutral in that position. But if a woman tries to control me and act "tough" when really she's doing it out of insecurity then that is a big turnoff. That is really what I meant. I don't appreciate a man or woman like that. I don't like to be controlled by anyone so my relationships would have to be either more 50/50 or me being somewhat in the controlling position....BUT i don't like girls that are too passive because i see that as a personal weakness in people. I also don't enjoy controlling people either...i think ther eis a big difference between a woman who is dominantly controlled without her consent and then a woman who allows it...it's called flirting. if a woman always let me control her i would lose respect for her and think she had no backbone


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

bwidger85 said:


> Why is it you prefer a man to take the lead in the beginning? Is it because your afraid to do it yourself or is it because it's attractive to you or what?
> 
> Btw, a buddy of mine was approached by this girl at a party and he is passive. She loves him to death and won't leave him alone either!
> 
> Also, when I said a masculine woman I mean one that is negatively controlling and stuff like that. A women in a powerful position does nothing for me; I'm neutral in that position. But if a woman tries to control me and act "tough" when really she's doing it out of inecurity then that is a big turnoff. That is really what I meant. I don't appreicate a man or woman like that. I don't like to be controlled by anyone so my relationships would have to be either more 50/50 or me being somewhat in the controlling position....BUT i don't like girls that are too passive because i see that as a personal weakness in people.


For one I don't have the confidence to win someone over. My social skills are not the best and I'm afraid I might scare the guy off with my pickiness. (I would never go to a restaurant on a first date because I take forever to choose and I'm a messy eater.) And I guess I want the guy to prove that he is really interested in me by making him plan things.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

komorikun said:


> For one I don't have the confidence to win someone over. My social skills are not the best and I'm afraid I might scare the guy off with my pickiness. (I would never go to a restaurant on a first date because I take forever to choose and I'm a messy eater.) And I guess I want the guy to prove that he is really interested in me by making him plan things.


I see. I understand this. But this doesn't seem to back up some people's philosophy when they say a woman wants to be controlled because it's _attractive_. That is what I was really interested in.

I think confidence is a universal attractive thing for both sexes. Also, some physical objectivity with regard to looks and HEALTH. Intelligence is another one. And most the rest is subjective.

And if we are talking to procreate and make the best babies then it makes sense why confidence, health and intelligence is attractive for both sexes. Dominance can also be a way of insecurity.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

komorikun said:


> Well, unless you are super smooth but I kind of doubt those sort of people are on this website.


Hey, I take offense to that! :b


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## falco (Jun 1, 2011)

srschirm said:


> Hey, I take offense to that! :b


Keen to share some tips for fellow SAs?

I never see any attraction to me in any girls and that is preventing me from cold approaches, so skill to somehow show of my good personality (is it even goof enough for someone to consider me as a bf??? :um) in short time would be helpful


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## Sew Happy (Feb 18, 2012)

luceo said:


>


An amazing comic, it inspired me to talk to the guy I like...


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## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

calichick said:


> *Creep*: An undesirable male who has an inflated sense of ego (feels that his status is higher than what it actually is among society); is_ persistent_ in endeavors to earn female approval for a date or sex etc.
> 
> Example:
> Ugly guy from the club was *creeping* on me the whole night, trying to get me to go home with him.
> ...


Sad but true. PUAs and undesirable guys that do tons of cold approaches just to get rejected fit this criteria. This is the main reason I want to develop a social circle of friends and meet girls through friends of friends and avoid cold approaching altogether.


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## kosherpiggy (Apr 7, 2010)

YES. you'd probably regret it if you didnt do it. whats to lose?


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