# The great operating system debate



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I may have started a thread like this before, I can't remember. But here we go...

For the general computer system, which do you prefer, and why? Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux are the main contenders, although there are versions of Free BSD and MS DOS around as well. 

For the smartphone/tablet market...which is it? Android, iOS, Windows, or another operating system?

For me, I'm not a big fan of Linux (any distribution), simply because there is little support for big products like Adobe Photoshop, iTunes, Cyberlink Director, and Microsoft Office. It also crashes several software products that run flawlessly on Mac or Windows.

I love Mac most of all, but that is because it is a beautiful operating system, and there are no bugs. Seems like I'm always getting some error message on Windows, even from a freshly installed OS. I do like Windows, however, but it is less secure, and it is harder to use. 

Android and iOS are both great, but Android is less stable, and sometimes a buggy mess. iOS doesn't have the open source capabilities that Android does, however, and doesn't support an external mouse. So it's a tie.


----------



## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

From most to least favorite on a desktop/laptop

Linux pros: Free, secure, fast, respects user's freedom, doesn't slow down, a flavor of it out there for everyone
Mac pros: Media standard, looks good, secure, fast, doesn't slow down
Windows pros: Gaming standard
PCBSD: p.o.s.
Solaris: why?

In a way they all suck. All of them should have used a micro-kernel approach. And they are all way too bloated. Too much code being added to little advantage.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Windows has been ugly for a long time, visually. Windows XP was my favorite flavor of Windows, since Vista it has looked terrible, and Windows 8/8.1 is the worst visually.

MacOS, on the other hand, is getting better. I've only been on it since Mountain Lion, but Mavericks is a huge step forward, and every flavor of the Yosemite beta have been more stunning than the last.


----------



## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

I use Android 55%, Windows 43%, Linux 2%


----------



## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

funnynihilist said:


> I use Android 55%, Windows 43%, Linux 2%


Android is Linux with a java stack on it. But I think you know that.


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Windows 7. I hate Linux because there are way too many freeware programs I like for Windows that won't work with Linux. I guess you can probably make some of them work with Wine but it's more trouble than it's worth and it isn't consistent. One program might work OK and the next one hardly works at all. 

I've been using Irfanview since the day I got my first internet connection. I tried several times to make it work with Wine and it was a disaster. No way I'm giving up my go to image viewer. I couldn't get Foobar to work either. 

Not only that. Something is always going wrong with Linux and if you don't know how to use the console, it's a waste of time to try and fix it.


----------



## Arbre (Mar 9, 2014)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Windows 7. I hate Linux because there are way too many freeware programs I like for Windows that won't work with Linux. I guess you can probably make some of them work with Wine but it's more trouble than it's worth and it isn't consistent. One program might work OK and the next one hardly works at all.
> 
> I've been using Irfanview since the day I got my first internet connection. I tried several times to make it work with Wine and it was a disaster. No way I'm giving up my go to image viewer. I couldn't get Foobar to work either.
> 
> Not only that. Something is always going wrong with Linux and if you don't know how to use the console, it's a waste of time to try and fix it.


Foobar2000 and Irfanview are the two programs that I miss most when I use Linux. I read on Linux forums about people getting Foobar to work but it was very buggy. One time I managed to open it in Wine but it kept crashing.


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Eggshell said:


> Foobar2000 and Irfanview are the two programs that I miss most when I use Linux. I read on Linux forums about people getting Foobar to work but it was very buggy. One time I managed to open it in Wine but it kept crashing.


 I'm kind of surprised Foobar hasn't been adapted by now considering how popular it is. I never really appreciated how convenient Irfanview is until I tried to get by without it.


----------



## AlexSky (Jun 1, 2011)

Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell + Boot to desktop > Windows 7


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Windows because gaming


----------



## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

will22 said:


> Android is Linux with a java stack on it. But I think you know that.


Ya, I guess my point was that I do most of my computing on tablets and phones now.


----------



## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Windows 7. I hate Linux because there are way too many freeware programs I like for Windows that won't work with Linux. I guess you can probably make some of them work with Wine but it's more trouble than it's worth and it isn't consistent. One program might work OK and the next one hardly works at all.
> 
> I've been using Irfanview since the day I got my first internet connection. I tried several times to make it work with Wine and it was a disaster. No way I'm giving up my go to image viewer. I couldn't get Foobar to work either.
> 
> Not only that. Something is always going wrong with Linux and if you don't know how to use the console, it's a waste of time to try and fix it.


You could install windows inside of linux with virtualbox and use those freewares inside linux that way. Although that sounds like a hassle.

I installed android inside of linux and was then able to use kik messenger on my pc which was cool.


----------



## musiclover55 (Feb 7, 2011)

Windows 7


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Now I'm completely sold on Mac OS Yosemite. I know it's only in beta, but this OS is perfect, and much more stable than Mavericks.


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

funnynihilist said:


> You could install windows inside of linux with virtualbox and use those freewares inside linux that way. Although that sounds like a hassle.


 Exactly. I'm pretty sure I tried that at least once.


----------



## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

I use Linux 100% of the time. I don't have a smart phone etc.

Personally I don't need to use any Windows specific software, and can find open-source stuff to do what I need - not saying that this is the case for everyone. If I still gamed and made music, I'd use Windows.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

As a .NET developer gimme all the Windows.

Silverlight blows monkey dick, but C# is the best thing since bacon on eggs.



will22 said:


> Android is Linux with a java stack on it. But I think you know that.


Android uses the Linux kernel. It's programmed in C on top of that.


----------



## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> As a .NET developer gimme all the Windows.
> 
> Silverlight blows monkey dick, but C# is the best thing since bacon on eggs.
> 
> Android uses the Linux kernel. It's programmed in C on top of that.


Are you trying to say most of what we know of as the Android OS is programmed in C on top of the kernel and virtual machine (which of course are both programmed in C)? Everywhere says to say mainly Java.

Android is built as: linux kernel fork (of course programmed in mostly C and a little asm) + Dalvik Java Virtual Machine (programmed in C) + most of what we know as android programmed in Java and run through the Dalvik Java VM


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

will22 said:


> Are you trying to say most of the programming done on top of the Linux kernel and the Java Virtual Machine is done in C? Everywhere says to say mainly Java.
> 
> Android is built as: linux kernel fork (of course programmed in mostly C and a little asm) + Dalvik Java Virtual Machine (programmed in C) + most of what we know as android programmed in Java run through the Dalvik Java VM


It's built to be compatible with Java, but all the middleware is built in C. Dalvik isn't actually Java, but something Java bytecode is translated into. Applications are written in Java. It makes plenty sense to do this.

The choice of using C for the middleware is obvious because of the need for performance optimization. Dalvik was needed to optimize Java programs, since Java is the worst offending major language in performance, especially for RAM use.


----------



## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> It's built to be compatible with Java, but all the middleware is built in C. Dalvik isn't actually Java, but something Java bytecode is translated into. Applications are written in Java. It makes plenty sense to do this.
> 
> The choice of using C for the middleware is obvious because of the need for performance optimization. Dalvik was needed to optimize Java programs, since Java is the worst offending major language in performance, especially for RAM use.


Ok you're just elaborating on stuff I've already said. I don't know why you stopped at middleware in your initial response. An operating system is also defined by the programs that make it recognizable to a normal consumer. In this case, as you said yourself, programs are mostly Java code.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

Linux for everything including movies and what not. Windows for gaming. Android sucks for phones but it is better than iOS. There is an OS called sailfish OS which is an alternative to Android as it runs apps on the hardware directly instead of using a VM. If that is available for my device, as I love custom ROMs I will switch to it. Word. Argument over. Let the fanboys flock.


----------



## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Sacrieur said:


> As a .NET developer gimme all the Windows.
> 
> Silverlight blows monkey dick, but *C# is the best thing since bacon on eggs.*


Do you like the .Net platform or the actual language? I think the platform is pretty good, but C# to me just seems like Java with an almost nauseating amount of syntactic sugar attached to it. :b

C# is still one of the better languages around though but I find myself having to keep reference material at hand when reading another person's code - there's seems to be so many little hacks/alternatives to conventional constructs.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Paper Samurai said:


> Do you like the .Net platform or the actual language? I think the platform is pretty good, but C# to me just seems like Java with an almost nauseating amount of syntactic sugar attached to it. :b


Silverlight is meh. WPF is great with data-binding.

But in general, yes, very good platform. The language is like a better version of Java, so that's also nice. But combined with the library support coming from Microsoft and the best IDE found anywhere, it's really set apart from the rest. I'm really a Haskell fan at heart, though.



> C# is still one of the better languages around though but I find myself having to keep reference material at hand when reading another person's code - there's seems to be so many little hacks/alternatives to conventional constructs.


I think in terms of C#, people don't get a whole lot of help on good practices and it's easy to speghettify. I know someone who using a method to call other methods, which was lulzy since you can just multicast delegates.



will22 said:


> Ok you're just elaborating on stuff I've already said. I don't know why you stopped at middleware in your initial response. An operating system is also defined by the programs that make it recognizable to a normal consumer. In this case, as you said yourself, programs are mostly Java code.


I've never really thought of that as part of the OS, though. So I suppose you're right.


----------



## Gentlecrab (Apr 14, 2013)

AlexSky said:


> Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell + Boot to desktop > Windows 7


This man speaks the truth.


----------



## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

I prefer Linux.

The only downside I've found is occasionally wanting to use software that it isn't compatible with (and that isn't easy to run through Wine). That's not relevant to most of my computer use though. On the rare occasion that it comes up I run Windows in a virtual machine. Even most of the games I play run fine in Linux.

I know they supposedly improved Windows 8, but I really hated it when I tried it when it was new. It was easy to decide I didn't want it on my laptop and to just use Windows as a secondary OS. I'm sure it's great for tablets or something.


----------



## LydeaCharlotteGirl (Aug 27, 2013)

All my PCs can still boot into Freedos. Windows 3.1 was ok, but I never used 95 etc because of the awful crash frequency. It was Windows NT 4, 2000, XP pro. Recently removed XP, now Linux only.


----------



## cs773 (Sep 8, 2014)

I play PC games so I still need a Windows system for that but if I could reliably play commercial games on Linux i'd dump Windows in a second.


----------



## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Paper Samurai said:


> Do you like the .Net platform or the actual language? I think the platform is pretty good, but C# to me just seems like Java with an almost nauseating amount of syntactic sugar attached to it. :b
> 
> C# is still one of the better languages around though but I find myself having to keep reference material at hand when reading another person's code - there's seems to be so many little hacks/alternatives to conventional constructs.


I learned Go at a hackathon and I cannot Go back . no really, go is so much better than Java in infinite ways.



Sacrieur said:


> As a .NET developer gimme all the Windows.
> 
> Silverlight blows monkey dick, but C# is the best thing since bacon on eggs.
> .


I can't stand anything microsoft anymore, I just cannot even with Mono, just no.


----------



## EmyMax (Sep 26, 2014)

I'm no fanboy when it comes to computers and hardware, as I just LOVE everything that's related to computers and technology, in such a way that, sometimes, I like to try MANY options/configurations.
I'm always fascinated by new and different options and features. And, for me, the more, the better.
I don't buy stuff, just because of all the hype that's behind it. But rather, I always buy my stuff AFTER trying it for a few days or so, and after I finally seen and discovered, for myself, what certain device can give me/make me do.
But when it comes to choose "the great device/operating system" for me, my preferences goes to:

Windows 7 for Flight Simulation and games in general, HTPC and advanced multimedia needs, Adobe softwares, and general DirectX-based applications, that aren't very popular and don't run on other OSes, even with emulation.

Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.6 (STRICTLY!!!) that I run on a old G4 Powerbook and a 17-inch Macbook Pro (one of the latest of the line), for everyday use, and for applications like "the good 'ol" Final Cut Pro/Final Cut Studio 3 (I grow up with it....and while I know it lacks many many features that new audio/video editing softwares of today have, I still prefer it for its "fast-paced" inducing editing and for its intuitive frame-searching-scrolling-cutting, which does save me a lot of time), Logic Pro (i like to make my own surround sound albums......don't ask me how. It took me many years of studying/trying to learn how to properly mix an album in surround, and you will just scratch your head, or feeling that i'm talking non-sense, if I explain you how do I do that ), screenplay/books/notes/documents writing and editing (I like the "polished" interface of Final Draft on the Mac, better than on Windows.......personal preference, here. No fanboyism), and for creating slideshows/calendars/letters and stuff like that.

iPads/iOS/Android.....uhm.....well. 
To be honest, I never really got into the "tablet-phablet hype". Three computers already do what I want and even more. And I just don't think that a tablet/phablet can ever substitute a REAL computer......EVER. They're just too different, way too far away from eachother. 
I tried to like them, but I always saw that they missed something that always made me crave more REAL computers.
Besides watching movies, listen to music, playing some mini games, taking notes, Internet browsing and stuff like that, I don't really see them as innovative as their creators tend to make people believe.
I don't know. I just can't force myself to love and accept them as a big and necessary "innovation" for the human mankind. I just can't see all this "potential" and "life-changing innovation" that their creators blab and rant about.


----------



## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

Macbook Air with the OS X Mavericks because of good hardware and battery management allows to use extended amount of time compared to a laptop running Windows.

My custom built desktop, I use Windows 7. It has the most compatibility with softwares I use for work.

For my servers I use the Linux distribution CentOS because of compatibility with more hosting type softwares thus larger support base in that area.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

nullptr said:


> I can't stand anything microsoft anymore, I just cannot even with Mono, just no.


Really? Visual Studio is a great product.


----------



## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Sacrieur said:


> Really? Visual Studio is a great product.


For me visual studio crashes all the time, im not doubting it's good just for me it has problems. I prefer unix based systems overall.


----------



## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

nullptr said:


> *I learned Go at a hackathon and I cannot Go back* . no really, go is so much better than Java in infinite ways.


Heh, I see what you did there. :b

I'm a little wary of jumping on board Google based stuff - but that's just my paranoid side kicking in. Have you heard of RUST btw? It's the direct competitor to Go and supported by Mozilla. I have no idea which is better, but I'll probably be picking one of the two up at some point.


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Paper Samurai said:


> Have you heard of RUST btw? It's the direct competitor to Go and supported by Mozilla.


 Tarnish is so much better!


----------



## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Paper Samurai said:


> Heh, I see what you did there. :b
> 
> I'm a little wary of jumping on board Google based stuff - but that's just my paranoid side kicking in. Have you heard of RUST btw? It's the direct competitor to Go and supported by Mozilla. I have no idea which is better, but I'll probably be picking one of the two up at some point.


I love Google, they contribute immensely to the open source community. Rust looks nice, but as of now it's still in the beta stages, there's not even a 1.0 release yet so it's unstable, I'll look at it more when it's stable.


----------



## ComeAndSee (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm learning Linux right now and its a very unique and interesting OS. The level of customization you can do to it is unparalleled, but then again you need a degree just to memorize every single command line.

I've used Windows all the way from Windows 3.11 to Windows 7 (haven't touched 8) and its my go-to OS.


----------



## apk55 (Aug 14, 2014)

I mostly use linux and prefer Xubuntu with its nice clean XFCE desktop. While I can boot up into windows I rarely do, only for a couple of specialized applications.


----------



## Distinctive Temptations (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm using Windows 10 tech preview right now. Can't stand Mac and don't really see the point in using Linux (except for cracking Wi-Fi connections with Backtrack.) Also don't understand the people that hate Windows 8 style UI, it looks so much more modern and sleep than Windows7/Vista style.


----------



## Lonelyfalcon (Apr 28, 2014)

I am a gamer so I use windows but if I remeber right, a couple years ago Steam started to support linux users. Anyway I use android for my smartphone and sometimes but rarely I use linux (livecd) to fix certain problems I could have on my main computer.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

Lonelyfalcon said:


> I am a gamer so I use windows but if I remeber right, a couple years ago Steam started to support linux users. Anyway I use android for my smartphone and sometimes but rarely I use linux (livecd) to fix certain problems I could have on my main computer.


Android is Unix based however it is not Linux.


----------



## Lonelyfalcon (Apr 28, 2014)

I know. I use linux sometimes to fix problems on my PC.


----------



## A SAD Finn (Sep 16, 2007)

I think that Linux is technically superior to Windows partially thanks to its Unix-heritage which gives us tons of extremely powerful command-line tools and partially to its stability and speed. The biggest problem is obviously limited support for commercial applications and device drivers. Also the user interface is quite horrid in some Linux-programs.

Windows 7 came preinstalled in my laptop but I have only used it for gaming. My impressions with it until now was that it is very sluggish even on a fast computer. A couple of days ago I decided to dig into it a bit deeper and removed some preinstalled Lenovo-bloatware and the front-end for my mobile broadband which is utter crap. After these simple operations it is a way faster and I'm actually somewhat impressed as to where Windows has come since the XP-days which still give me a massive headache if I have to think about it (not to mention pre-XP era). The reason for now experimenting with Windows after years of using Linux is that I'm considering buying a Nokia Lumia Windows phone and as far as I understand there are some pretty cool interoperability options with the computer, though I guess I'd need Windows 8 in that case. I have never liked Android very much and Apple won't be an option because it is too expensive and would again benefit of having an Apple computer.


----------



## A SAD Finn (Sep 16, 2007)

apk55 said:


> I mostly use linux and prefer Xubuntu with its nice clean XFCE desktop. While I can boot up into windows I rarely do, only for a couple of specialized applications.


Yeah, XFCE is great. It's lightening fast and pretty customizable. I also prefer the old (pre version 3) Gnome-UI style. The only problem with XFCE is that there isn't a proper search function in Thunar. However earlier I used some very cool app which lets you to search for files and programs and launch them with just typing a few initial letters. It's pretty much like the similar function in modern Gnome (and Ubuntu too I believe) but only a lot better. Unfortunately I can't remember the app's name right now.


----------



## Grog (Sep 13, 2013)

We'll this thread was no help to me .

All I want to know is what to buy mac or windows 

Laptop for someone not so computer literate and doesn't know **** .


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Grog said:


> We'll this thread was no help to me .
> 
> All I want to know is what to buy mac or windows


 You should wait and see what the next Windows is going to be like (in the long run). It might be another W8 or it might turn out to be the best one yet. That is if you can afford to wait.


----------



## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

I always go with Windows but that's because I always use computers with preinstalled Windows OS's. I've heard things about Mac OS's but I don't personally see them as being too bad and when I used it (only very briefly), I didn't suffer any problems and I liked how everything was nice and shiny. 

I've never really used Linux but I don't consider myself a computer expert and I think that Linux is a little out of my depth, being open source and all. 

I think it's dependent on what kind of user you are, but I hate Windows 8 and 8.1, just because it seems so counter intuitive and has a substantial amount of useless features. For me, the best OS is Windows 7. I'm waiting on Windows 9 to see what it's like, though. It looks like it could take the different features from Windows 8 and 7 and combine them into something a little more intuitive.


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

The Exodus said:


> I think it's dependent on what kind of user you are, but I hate Windows 8 and 8.1, just because it seems so counter intuitive and has a substantial amount of useless features. For me, the best OS is Windows 7. I'm waiting on Windows 9 to see what it's like, though. It looks like it could take the different features from Windows 8 and 7 and combine them into something a little more intuitive.


 I don't know. MS is one of those companies that simply hates to admit they were wrong and listen to the end user. Like Mozilla has been doing a lot lately. They want to dictate how things are going to be to people who don't want things to be that way and simply won't accept it as long as they have any alternative. A lot of people obviously stuck with Windows 7 because they took one look at W8 and thought "WTF?"

I think Windows 7 would probably be as obsolete as Vista by now if MS hadn't turned Windows 8 into such a bizarre freakshow. Even when they had a chance with 8.1 they still didn't change it that much. It remains to be seen if they'll capitulate with the next version but I wouldn't be too surprised if they still try to do things their way and turn it into another train wreck for the end user.

Well, it would obviously help if they didn't charge like $100 per copy for an OS that's going to sell many millions of copies. It's not like they wouldn't make their money if it was much more affordable.


----------

