# Paranoia from weed or amphetamine? You have a vitamine D defiency!



## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

A few months ago i wasnt able to take amphetamine without getting severe paranoia, i started thinking ppl were going to break into my house, or when i was walking on the street that ppl were going to attack me, high doses of benzo's worked but they also inhibited some benefits.
Same things with weed, couldnt tolerate it because it made me feel really paranoid.

Now lately ive been supplementing vitamine D (10.000 UI/day) and man what a difference, i no longer have any problems with paranoia from amphetamine anymore! Weed still makes me SA worse but nothing like it used to be. I barely smoke weed tough, maybe once a month but it was interesting to notice. (Still adviced to stay away from it if you have SA).

I believe that a vitamine D defiency could also have negative effects when taking other medication or dimish the effectiveness, thats why i made this thread! (Cant proof that tough, but there's lots of proof from health benefits of vitamin D).

Fact is that many many ppl are deficient in vitamine D, for more info check out this site.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/
There's also a ton research on this page:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/research.shtml

I cant guarantee that the same things will happen to everyone that tries this, but this was my personal experience.


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

This is potentially very good news, in a weird kind of way.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

That's pretty interesting.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

Vitamin D for paranoia? hmm may have to get me some of that 
thanks for sharing


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

I've been telling myself to go lay out by the pool for an hour or so for the longest time, but I'm hesitant because I'm hideous and have blindingly white skin. I'm aware of the effects sunlight and lack there of can have on mental health. I just don't have any reason to ever be outside unless I'm going to my vehicle or another indoor place. I'll eventually kick myself in the butt to go lay out in the sun. I need a tan, lol.


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## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

i take 50,000IU vitamin ds but still freak out from getting baked occasionally. Usually its when I haven't hit the gym in a couple days for whatever reason. I have noticed I don't get sick anymore!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

korey said:


> I've been telling myself to go lay out by the pool for an hour or so for the longest time, but I'm hesitant because I'm hideous and have blindingly white skin. I'm aware of the effects sunlight and lack there of can have on mental health. I just don't have any reason to ever be outside unless I'm going to my vehicle or another indoor place. I'll eventually kick myself in the butt to go lay out in the sun. I need a tan, lol.


You could take supplements, thats what i do.


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## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

Thomas Paine said:


> Makes sense because pot heads and meth heads are forced underground and have to spend days at a time without sunlight just to get high without getting busted. Then if they do get busted they go to jail which has no sunlight either. Makes you wonder who these people could have been if they weren't at war with their neighbors.
> 
> I've been drinking Vitamin D milk lately because it gives me what I need for weight training too.


that first part was ridiculous but the real reason i wanted to post was because vitamin d milk isn't enough for vitamin d purposes. Life extension recommends 6-8000IU during the winter. It does well for muscles though.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

podizzle said:


> that first part was ridiculous but the real reason i wanted to post was because vitamin d milk isn't enough for vitamin d purposes. Life extension recommends 6-8000IU during the winter. It does well for muscles though.


Yeah, you need to supplement around 5000UI, i have been taking 20.000UI this week but i started itching all over my skin sometimes, so went back down to 10.000 UI. Also take cod liver oil.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

podizzle said:


> i take 50,000IU vitamin ds but still freak out from getting baked occasionally. Usually its when I haven't hit the gym in a couple days for whatever reason. I have noticed I don't get sick anymore!


That is a toxic dose, I would not reccomend taking that much everyday.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I get very little sunlight, but I take a multivitamin a day with 200IU vitamin D in it. Maybe it's not enough but vitamins can be some of the worst things to overdose with.

Maybe paranoia etc. is related to vitamin D deficiency, but as you know, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. It could just be that vitamin D has pharmacological anti-psychotic (or anti-whatever) effects and these extend well beyond the recommended/safe dosage. There's a lot on the net about magnesium deficiency and that magnesium deficiency is the cause of depression etc.. While it's true to some extent (a lot of people are deficient), magnesium has mood elevating effects above the correct dose for your body and some people take ridiculous doses like 1000mg+ thinking magnesium deficiency is the root of all their problems. I took something like 800mg a day at one point, thinking it was a safe dose, as all the hype about magnesium tended to ignore the optimum/safe dose recommendations. Personally I'm sticking with drugs for drug effects, and taking a balanced multivitamin with the recommended doses, and additional 300mg magnesium (as the multi has magnesium in the crappy oxide form), as far as vitamins et al go.

The recommended doses aren't necessarily optimum doses though - each nutrient/drug/mineral/whatever has to be evaluated individually on its toxicity/benefits (but the recommended doses are usually best).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> I get very little sunlight, but I take a multivitamin a day with ~2000IU vitamin A in it. Maybe it's not enough but vitamins can be some of the worst things to overdose with.
> 
> Maybe paranoia etc. is related to vitamin A deficiency, but as you know, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. It could just be that vitamin A has pharmacological anti-psychotic (or anti-whatever) effects and these extend well beyond the recommended/safe dosage. Personally I'm sticking with a balanced multivitamin with the recommended doses, + 300mg magnesium (as the multi has magnesium in the crappy oxide form), as far as vitamins et al go. I'll stick to drugs for drug effects.
> 
> The recommended doses aren't necessarily optimum doses though - each nutrient/drug/mineral/whatever has to be evaluated individually on its toxicity/benefits (but the recommended doses are usually best).


I'm only supporting vitamine D to get adequate levels and not to get superficial high levels perse, blood levels can be tested with bloodtests, the optimal ammount is on the vitamine D council site. I dont think this is an affect of overdosing on vitamine D, just correcting a defiency i certainly have by sitting inside all day.

Besides, your confusing vitamin A and D.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> - The evidence for taking seperate vitamins is rather sketcy, I dont beleive in vitamins working better in overdoses like stupid doses of vitamine E etc, just know that many ppl are vitamin D deficient, the best way to follow this up is by testing the ammount in your body.
> - Vitamine D should be used to counteract a defiency and not to get superficial vitamine D levels.
> 
> Besides, your confusing vitamin A and D.


Oops, edited .

I agree with you on striving for optimum levels and have knowledge on the subject rather than blindly following recommendations:



> The recommended doses aren't necessarily optimum doses though - each nutrient/drug/mineral/whatever has to be evaluated individually on its toxicity/benefits (but the recommended doses are usually best).


...It sounds like you're being intelligent about it (correcting a deficiency rather than overdosing), but you are taking 50x the amount of vitamin D I take a day... Are you sure that's safe?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Oops, edited .
> 
> I agree with you on striving for optimum levels and have knowledge on the subject rather than blindly following recommendations:
> 
> It sounds like you're being intelligent about it (correcting a deficiency rather than overdosing), but you are taking 50x the amount of vitamin D I take a day... Are you sure that's safe?


If you stay inside the sun for a while, your body easily makes 20.000 UI in 20 minutes or even more. With taking 10.000 UI a day i wont be overdosing. Ive seen studies showing 25.000 UI a day didnt produce any nasty side effects, they didnt test in the long run tough so i dont recommend that much.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I do go for a 30 minute jog every 2 days now, so maybe my D levels aren't too bad...


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## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

Ash09 said:


> That is a toxic dose, I would not reccomend taking that much everyday.


sorry i meant once a week. :boogie


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> I do go for a 30 minute jog every 2 days now, so maybe my D levels aren't too bad...


Probably alot better then mine.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I HAD a severe severe vitamin D deficiency. So low, the lab told my doctor he even triple-checked it and even he said he's never seen it outside of a nursing home... heh

I've been taking 4,000IU for a while now (as instructed by my doctor, NOT a dose I set on my own), and my levels aren't low at all anymore. I never got paranoid from amps, always got paranoid from weed. And that hasn't changed one bit.

I appreciate you adding "I cant guarantee that the same things will happen to everyone that tries this, but this was my personal experience" to the bottom of your post, but I think the title of the thread is wildly presumptive and sensationalist. I'd expect better from you crayzy, we both know you're intelligent enough to see this is far from scientific :lol

But... there are MANY reasons to make sure you get adequate vitamin D. And I don't mean the Institute of Medicine's recommended daily intake... these figures were initially established as pretty much absolute minimums to relatively ensure you don't develop things like rickets or other bone disorders (and similarly other problems strongly associated with deficiencies of other micronutrients) rather than looking at the optimal level to maximize potential BENEFITS. 

With vitamin D in particular, there are just a ton of established benefits to having levels higher than merely what a lab would report as exceeding the minimum end of the appropriate range. An "optimal" level is a lot higher than a recommended one. So I think there are much better incentives already for those of us in temperate climates to supplement with vitamin D than merely the fact that it could help with weed paranoia... which I have to say I honestly doubt has any legitimate effect at all.

And it's not just enough be IN the sun... it's only significantly produced in the skin by exposure to a very narrow band of UVB, which can be influenced by things as seemingly trivial as the angle of the sun in the sky (directly overhead is ideal). This means there's really only a certain window of time where you'll really even get your vitamin D from the sun, centering around roughly noon-time, which obviously means that this window gets increasingly smaller as you approach winter and/or polar latitudes, and larger as it approaches summer and/or the equator. A study I just glanced at indicates that in Boston, that window of opportunity doesn't even really exist from November-February, and entire third of the year, and it likely doesn't even get THAT large during the height of summer.

Also... my dad was a contractor who was out in the sun pretty much all day, and his levels were low as well. He's of Scottish and Irish descent and his entire family is pretty pale, but since he's been constantly working out in the sun for years, he's got a remarkably darker skin tone, which has ended up contributing to it by blocking out even more UVB. So while originally his levels were probably pretty high, the fact that he spends so much time in the sun kind of counter-intuitively resulted in him having a much harder time producing vitamin D, ESPECIALLY here in Canada, but it would likely not be all too different in the majority of the States as well. 

So moderation is important as well, because even if you DO manage to get outside every day, without sunscreen, when the optimal wavelengths of UVB are present, most lighter-skinned individuals will hit a production equilibrium within 15-20 minutes (you do NOT keep producing more, it reaches a point where it degrades just as fast as it's being produced) and no further benefit will actually be gained by remaining in the sun for any longer...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

What kind of paranoia are you guys getting from weed? It can still make me freak out and make my anxiety worse, but the paranoia i was describing in the OP is largely gone (thinking ppl are going to break into my house etc).


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> What kind of paranoia are you guys getting from weed? It can still make me freak out and make my anxiety worse, but the paranoia i was describing in the OP is largely gone (thinking ppl are going to break into my house etc).


For me it's quite generalized. It's not being paranoid about getting busted, as many people who don't seem to get it seem to think... I've done much more illicit substances without that kind of concern. Having done LSD and shrooms a bunch of times in the past so I have a good enough idea of the psychedelic experience, and potheads like to tell me I'm full of ****, but THC seems to be highly psychedelic for me (compared to most reports), and pretty much guarantees me what I like to think of as a "mini" bad trip. Nothing as extreme as the full-blown living, practically schizophrenic nightmare I once had on shrooms (never had a bad experience like that with LSD though), but still sharing a similar quality.

Interestingly, both shrooms and weed have a way of making me MUCH more acutely depressed and self-loathing as well, whereas even sub-psychedelic doses of LSD lifts my mood in such an optimistic and motivating fashion that even opiates and amphetamines can't hold a candle to it... but LSD tolerance is so absurd that unfortunately it just doesn't seem like a feasible antidepressant.


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## Himi Jendrix (Mar 24, 2010)

Psychedelics and weed are very interesting drugs. Being able to produce completely different reactions in different people. 

I would like to understand the primary chemical mediators of the "bad trip". Does anyone happen to know?


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Himi Jendrix said:


> Psychedelics and weed are very interesting drugs. Being able to produce completely different reactions in different people.
> 
> I would like to understand the primary chemical mediators of the "bad trip". Does anyone happen to know?


The importance of so-called "set and setting" would suggest that the experience ISN'T chemically mediated in any way different than a pleasant one. Though it is without a doubt also significantly dose-dependent.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

meyaj said:


> For me it's quite generalized. It's not being paranoid about getting busted, as many people who don't seem to get it seem to think... I've done much more illicit substances without that kind of concern. Having done LSD and shrooms a bunch of times in the past so I have a good enough idea of the psychedelic experience, and potheads like to tell me I'm full of ****, but THC seems to be highly psychedelic for me (compared to most reports), and pretty much guarantees me what I like to think of as a "mini" bad trip. Nothing as extreme as the full-blown living, practically schizophrenic nightmare I once had on shrooms (never had a bad experience like that with LSD though), but still sharing a similar quality.
> 
> Interestingly, both shrooms and weed have a way of making me MUCH more acutely depressed and self-loathing as well, whereas even sub-psychedelic doses of LSD lifts my mood in such an optimistic and motivating fashion that even opiates and amphetamines can't hold a candle to it... but LSD tolerance is so absurd that unfortunately it just doesn't seem like a feasible antidepressant.


Yeah, i have allmost completely the same experience with weed. Yesterday evening i tried weed again in higher doses but freaked out. It's differend then before i started taking vitamine D, now its just a matter of handling the weed experience, wich itself can be pretty difficould (except a few puffs will never touch weed again).
The excessive paranoia i described in my OP is gone, same paranoia i used to have with amphetamine. Weed can still make my SA alot worse and induce depression like you described.

As far as psychedelics, in treshold doses its guaranteed they make me feel alot worse, treshold doses (doses that wont let me trip) just make me feel terrible, SA alot worse, depression, extremely self conscious etc.. Psychedelics dont agree with me.

Maybe interesting to know, tolerance doesnt build as fast to the antidepressant effect you are describing, ive read about a few people using LSD as an antidepressant long term in small daily doses.
DMT is a psychedelic wich barely has a tolerance, and may be even better for this purpose.
BUT such a regime is pretty experimental:b.


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

crayzyMed said:


> What kind of paranoia are you guys getting from weed? It can still make me freak out and make my anxiety worse, but the paranoia i was describing in the OP is largely gone (thinking ppl are going to break into my house etc).


I get so paranoid that I'm going to get caught. I never used to get like that, so I don't know why it happens now. Mostly I just get a generally anxious feeling--tight throat, beating heart, nausea. Then I start to panic because I get so introverted that I don't know how to tell people I'm freaking out, and I think, OMG HAVING A HEART ATTACK BUT CAN'T TELL ANYONE.


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

You know, I think you're onto something with the daily smoking bit. BF smokes every day and it has an incredible calming/antidepressant effect on him, whereas I only do it once a month or so. I need to get a vaporizer so I don't destroy my lungs, however.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

pita said:


> You know, I think you're onto something with the daily smoking bit. BF smokes every day and it has an incredible calming/antidepressant effect on him, whereas I only do it once a month or so. I need to get a vaporizer so I don't destroy my lungs, however.


To be fair, any chronic pothead is going to experience a bit of anxiety/depression upon discontinuation, and weed can appear to be the "fix" for this.

I don't have any problem with weed, I just think it's a ridiculous idea to intentionally BECOME a pothead with the goal of being able to tolerate it... lol


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Thomas Paine said:


> Please explain this. I'm honestly curious. How is it any different then getting on benzos + anti-depressants with the goal of becoming tolerant to them?


Who takes antidepressants to get tolerant to them?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Himi Jendrix said:


> Psychedelics and weed are very interesting drugs. Being able to produce completely different reactions in different people.
> 
> I would like to understand the primary chemical mediators of the "bad trip". Does anyone happen to know?


The 5-HT2C receptor is majorly involved in this, along with "set and setting", and the intensely altered state of mind in general I guess.



Thomas Paine said:


> I would be careful of vaporizers. For some reason they seem to make me have more anxiety. Maybe wait to use it until after you're already broken in? Some of the more relaxing chemicals must not get vaporized.
> 
> Marijuana smoke has actually been proven to be pretty safe, and possibly even beneficial. Especially if it's only a puff or two/day, I'd be more worried about toxins in your every day air.


I read that THC vaporizes at a much lower temperature than CBD, the calming couchlock stone chemical. Not saying those two are the only cannabinoids that are active, but they are key players. My point is, try setting your vaporizer to the highest setting (or at least quite a high setting), and see if it gives a more relaxing effect.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer#Vapor_quality (great source said:


> Few vaporizer studies or reviews have really addressed the quality of the vapor extracted and delivered; instead, focus has generally been on the mode of usage of the vaporizer. When one considers that there are at least 60 pharmacologically-active compounds in cannabis and that the aromatic terpenoids begin to vaporize at 126°C, but the more bio-active cannabidiol (CBD), Cannabinol (CBN), and delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) do not vaporize until near their respective flash points: CBD 206.3°C,[6] CBN 212.7°C,[7] THC 149.3°C[8]


With this in mind, you could vape at a low temp during the day for a sativa-like high (although getting high in the day might not be such a good idea anyway, if you have a job/school/whatever ), then higher temp at night for the indica-like stone. Or just use a high temp and get the full spectrum. I've heard CBN has a negative effect on the weed effect, so perhaps a temp between the vape temps of CBD and CBN would give the best effect.

I love my Volcano .


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> The 5-HT2C receptor is majorly involved in this


Have you got a source for that? Interesting as psychedelics and weed both make me feel alot worse, 5HT2C could indeed be the major contributer.


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## howardfan (Feb 6, 2010)

weed has always made lsd or shrooms much more powerful for myself as well. right after smoking I would usually go into a bad trip. seeing sounds and hearing colors. fun stuff. took me a few bad trips to figure out not to smoke weed while on any sort of psychedelic.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

Well the biggest difference between Anti depressants and Benzodiazepines compared to Weed and LSD, speed, cocaine etc is that the above are LEGAL lol and i have yet to experience a wicked trip on any benzodiazepine, aside form the room spinning and seeing a few spiders that were not there on the wall i have not noticed the effects to be as heavy as an LSD tab, there again i have not tried it, but my sisters take it and they say its pretty trippy stuff if u are given the right amount and its not some cheap knock off drug that makes u sleep


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Arisa1536 said:


> Well the biggest difference between Anti depressants and Benzodiazepines compared to Weed and LSD, speed, cocaine etc is that the above are LEGAL lol and i have yet to experience a wicked trip on any benzodiazepine, aside form the room spinning and seeing a few spiders that were not there on the wall i have not noticed the effects to be as heavy as an LSD tab, there again i have not tried it, but my sisters take it and they say its pretty trippy stuff if u are given the right amount and its not some cheap knock off drug that makes u sleep


Was it zopiclone you saw spiders on? I used to have that exact hallucination almost every night on the stuff in the dark, spiders just swarming all over my room. Took a few nights to get used to but then it didn't bother me. I realized it was just a result of visual distortions though and that if I changed my focus to, say, just a foot in front of me, it would seem like gnats or something swarming RIGHT in front of my face. After experiencing this for a while it became obvious to me that the hallucinations were composed of like... black electric zigzags and wiggles. A really weird effect from something that's "supposed" to be functionally identical to your run-of-the-mill benzos.

What's interesting is once I stopped taking nortriptyline/hydroxyzine/whatever, the hallucinations stopped. I've since found out that the hallucinations experienced during an anticholinergic overdose can appear IDENTICAL, and they are certainly not similar to any psychedelic/dissociative hallucinations I've ever experienced. So it's interesting because the use of anticholinergic drugs was obviously influencing these hallucinations, but I was most certainly not overdosing on anticholinergics, and only zopiclone would actually draw these hallucinations out. I'm really curious as to how this might be happening.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Arisa1536 said:


> i have not noticed the effects to be as heavy as an LSD tab, there again i have not tried it.


I'd keep it that way, experimenting with psychedelic drugs when your prone to anxiety can be like playing with fire.



meyaj said:


> Was it zopiclone you saw spiders on? I used to have that exact hallucination almost every night on the stuff in the dark, spiders just swarming all over my room. Took a few nights to get used to but then it didn't bother me. I realized it was just a result of visual distortions though and that if I changed my focus to, say, just a foot in front of me, it would seem like gnats or something swarming RIGHT in front of my face. After experiencing this for a while it became obvious to me that the hallucinations were composed of like... black electric zigzags and wiggles. A really weird effect from something that's "supposed" to be functionally identical to your run-of-the-mill benzos.
> 
> What's interesting is once I stopped taking nortriptyline/hydroxyzine/whatever, the hallucinations stopped. I've since found out that the hallucinations experienced during an anticholinergic overdose can appear IDENTICAL, and they are certainly not similar to any psychedelic/dissociative hallucinations I've ever experienced. So it's interesting because the use of anticholinergic drugs was obviously influencing these hallucinations, but I was most certainly not overdosing on anticholinergics, and only zopiclone would actually draw these hallucinations out. I'm really curious as to how this might be happening.


That's an interesting point, I've also found it odd that something (zopiclone) which produces functionally almost identical effects to benzodiazapines could have this differing effect. What's odd is that, to use an analogy for a minute; tramadol for example is not structurally or chemically in the opioid class, yet it is still considered to be an opioid since it's an agonist at the μ-opioid receptors. So by the same logic, you would expect that zopiclone/eszopiclone would be considered atleast atypical benzodiazapines.

As for the anticholinergic thing, do you still take promethazine Arisa? because that does have anticholinergic activity. So it could be influencing it.


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## karoloydi (Feb 18, 2010)

I found another cause of paranoia from cannabis. Cannabis can lower your histamine levels. Histamine is asociated with lots of mental problems like anxiety, OCD, depression and schizophrenia.



> People with low histamine have been found with typical symptoms of under-achievement, more severe thought disorder and hallucinations, paranoid thoughts with less pronounced obsessions, suicidal depression, cyclic or suicidal depression, and anxiety. (Jackson et al, 1998; Edelman, 1996; Jaffe & Kruesi, 1992; Walsh, PTC - Ref. B).


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Have you got a source for that? Interesting as psychedelics and weed both make me feel alot worse, 5HT2C could indeed be the major contributer.


I meant only for psychedelics, not weed. But I heard weed upregulates 5-HT2 receptors and downregulates 5-HT1A receptors when used chronically.


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## AppTrix (Nov 16, 2011)

*[email protected]!*

Same thing happened to me and i found a article on Vitamin D deficiency and anxiety cause weed gave me terrible anxiety ALL the damn time and I took 800IU of Vitamin D today and WOW!!! what a difference!!! i smoked some and i have no anxiety its been almost a year since I could last smoke without having a bad trip :boogie btw for the guy taking 20k IU holy **** how are you NOT [email protected]? although recent studies suggest that healthy adults can tolerate more than 10,000 IU of vitamin D per day. i would never personally push past 10k :sus chilll smoke more haha


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## super (Sep 9, 2009)

okay....how much do you reccomend daily and how often should i dose daily?

whats a safe starting dose and whats agood maintaining one. i get paranoid easy on weed and amps. if this is true i will seriously have tears of joy.


brb taking vit d, (seirous)


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