# Spiritual Warfare?



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Have you ever heard about spiritual warfare and that it might be a big part in your problems? It means that the enemy/evil/devil attacks you through addictions/people/bad distractions/your weaknesses to discourage you from doing good.

Like Paul said 'For *we are not fighting* *against flesh*-*and-blood enemies*, but against evil rulers and authorities of the *unseen world*, against *mighty powers in this dark world'*.

I believe this also. I believe people do not attack others themselves, but the evil powers behind them that influence them attack us. Some people are more spiritually open to the bad forces and some more to the good forces.

Have you ever thought about your problems this way?


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

Yes. :yes

I also believe the enemy is behind every lie that a person believes. "You're not smart enough or pretty enough. You'll never amount to anything." Yes, those types of lies. I believe the enemy keeps people in bondage this way, so it prevents them from God's mighty calling in their life. Are you familiar with the elephant and the rope story? See: http://academictips.org/blogs/the-elephant-rope/


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

@lilyamongthorns, we had interesting talks about this  Let me read that story


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## Quinn the Eskimo (Jan 22, 2012)

I think these 'forces' are all in your mind. It may seem like, on the surface, that we are being manipulated on so many levels but the bigger picture is that those who allow themselves to be "manipulated" are doing so because they want to be *blind*.

Its a choice, and it doesnt make them bad or wrong. By the same token, if you want truth you will have truth. Its not like there is an actual spiritual war going on. Its just a manifestation of whats going on in consciousness.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Royals said:


> Have you ever thought about your problems this way?


When I'm extremely depressed and reading Gnostic literature, which does not fit my belief system but which does sometimes fit my mood.


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

Quinn the Eskimo said:


> I think these 'forces' are all in your mind. It may seem like, on the surface, that we are being manipulated on so many levels but the bigger picture is that those who allow themselves to be "manipulated" are doing so because they want to be *blind*.
> 
> Its a choice, and it doesnt make them bad or wrong. By the same token, if you want truth you will have truth. Its not like there is an actual spiritual war going on. Its just a manifestation of whats going on in consciousness.


I know this may seem foreign to you because you're not a believer. But there is a reason for my beliefs and it's not something I went into blindly. This part of the forum is for spiritual support, there is no need for debating.


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## Quinn the Eskimo (Jan 22, 2012)

lilyamongthorns said:


> I know this may seem foreign to you because you're not a believer. But there is a reason for my beliefs and it's not something I went into blindly. This part of the forum is for spiritual support, there is no need for debating.


It's not foreign to me at all. My area of knowledge is spirituality.

And don't debate me, then. I wasn't debating. What I gave was spiritual support. If you don't want to listen to my spiritual advice, that's fine with me, but no one is debating here.

I offered a chance to clear up misconceptions. Take it or leave it. You talk about the enemy and I understand that. But the enemy is not *out there*. Thats just a way of shifting the responsibility from yourself. *You* are your own worst enemy.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

@Quinn the Eskimo, that's a nice psychological explanantion. But I was talking more on a spiritual level. It's perfectly fine, to think it's all in the mind but only a part is. My mind, my thoughts believe/think these forces exist. That is called believing and I have/need faith to believe in these things. The other part is a spiritual sense wich you get when you open yourself to these unknown forces wich are invisble to the eye. I truelly believe that some people are more emotionally and spiritually open to these vibes/forces than others (believe it or not even without using drugs ). They can sense them more (often) and better. That is just how we are.

I just don't believe man is born evil or can be that evil by nature. He is shaped and formed this way by his experiences, influences and others. Just like these forces: negativity, hate, jealousy... they come and go. These are all feelings wich can't be seen until we use them in our actions. These negative feelings from the outside _become_ a part of you, they are _not _you.Why else can they leave you? So why is it so weird to believe in (other) negative forces wich can influence/harm you?


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Sierpinski said:


> When I'm extremely depressed and reading Gnostic literature, which does not fit my belief system but which does sometimes fit my mood.


Nice  Hope you become less depressed


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## chantellabella (May 5, 2012)

I definitely believe that the devil whispers lies such as, "They don't like you" and other paranoid making statements. I find that when my faith is strong, and especially when I was just starting to believe, I would hear things that made me question my Christian teachers. When I find I'm dwelling on anger or bitterness, and I say "I'm sorry, God has my back," that the anger tends to go away. 

Somebody told me once that while God can hear our thoughts, the devil can't. That's why we need to profess our faith in God out loud. I don't really know about any of this. I just know that I've encountered what I would call spiritual warfare because I've heard the whispered lies.

I know some people though who take spiritual warfare to a whole new level of "out there." I used to write on a John Eldridge forum. Some people there professed to having the ability to perform "spiritual warfare." What I could never understand was that they thought they needed to fight God's battles. Yes, I can see where we can personally choose to ignore the devils' whispers and stuff. But these people would get out the swords and say often, "And then I did warfare to keep the devil from invading my home." They made it seem like God needed help. My belief is that God doesn't need help. 

Now I can see that God uses others to spread information about him. But I just never saw God needing an army to fight his battles. I just picture a big foot coming out of the sky and squashing the devil in his tracks. 

I guess I wouldn't make a good spiritual warrior, huh?


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## Quinn the Eskimo (Jan 22, 2012)

Royals said:


> @Quinn the Eskimo, that's a nice psychological explanantion. But I was talking more on a spiritual level. It's perfectly fine, to think it's all in the mind but only a part is. My mind, my thoughts believe/think these forces exist. That is called believing and I have/need faith to believe in these things. The other part is a spiritual sense wich you get when you open yourself to these unknown forces wich are invisble to the eye.


These are just common misconceptions about spirituality. There is nothing evil controlling you or influencing you except yourself. You're taking away your own power by believing that. _It may seem like my explanation is mundane and psychological, but on the contrary, its quite mystical when you see the whole picture._

It's understandable that you think that way, it really is, because like i said before it definitely SEEMS like thats what is happening. but there is a bigger picture and life is not always what meets the eye.

When you get deep into spirituality and metaphysics you realize everything is of the mind. Like I said before, these forces you think are controlling you are really just manifestations of thought patterns. Nothing external can control you spiritually.



> I just don't believe man is born evil or can be that evil by nature. He is shaped and formed this way by his experiences, influences and others. Just like these forces: negativity, hate, jealousy... they come and go. These are all feelings wich can't be seen until we use them in our actions. These negative feelings from the outside _become_ a part of you, they are _not _you.Why else can they leave you? So why is it so weird to believe in (other) negative forces wich can influence/harm you?


What is evil? Evil is a judgement you are making. You list the following forces.. negativity, hate, jealousy.. where do those forces come from? the mind.

Those negative feelings dont come from the outside. They always stem from inside you. No one can make you feel a way that you didnt choose to feel. Even if an event precedes the feeling, YOU gave it the power to make you feel that way.

Its *not* weird to believe in external negative forces, its just not *accurate*. Like I said before, its actually totally understandable, and its not like its a bad thing to believe that.. Im not judging in any way.. just sharing what I know.. since this is a spiritual support section I hope that would be welcome, and hope you dont take it as me trying to debate you because Im not


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## Raphael200 (Aug 18, 2012)

Aye,there is something like spiritual warfare,i know much about it,if u are not a soldier in King Jesus's army,then the enemy will easily corrupt your soul with darkness and greed.Demons DO exist,they are just not seen,i have seen demons in my life,i have fought them as well,some humans are also corrupted by demons,that is why there is human warfare,there is a Devil out there,but humans have forgotten about him a long time ago.i know that this makes probably no sense to u,well,perhaps u are an atheist,if u do understand this then u are very wise to love Him.If i seem like a religious fanatic,oh well,Christianity is not a religion,it's a lifestyle choice,so,perhaps u don't have to change your religion,just your lifestyle choice

PS:Our main army is stationed in heaven,i am merely a special forces operative,on mission from God.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Royals said:


> Nice  Hope you become less depressed


My depression helped me learn a lot about early Christian history. I also made me something of a wine connoisseur.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

chantellabella said:


> I definitely believe that the devil whispers lies such as, "They don't like you" and other paranoid making statements. I find that when my faith is strong, and especially when I was just starting to believe, I would hear things that made me question my Christian teachers. When I find I'm dwelling on anger or bitterness, and I say "I'm sorry, God has my back," that the anger tends to go away.
> 
> Somebody told me once that while God can hear our thoughts, the devil can't. That's why we need to profess our faith in God out loud. I don't really know about any of this. I just know that I've encountered what I would call spiritual warfare because I've heard the whispered lies.
> 
> ...


@chantellabella, nice answer  Yes, that negative voice who tells you 'you're no good', 'you never make it', 'others don't like you', 'God never would listen'..... that is the devil whispering. It's like the idea of the angel and the devil on the shoulder. I do not try to listen to those lies, sometimes it's hard though when you're feeling weak. I know it's the devil because he always tries to attack when you are weak or at your weak spot. Why would I attack myself? I only want to feel better  The closer you get to God the more he tries to stop you from growing closer. But the more you will be prepared and the better you will be protected.

The best cure and remedy to defend yourself and that makes the negativity go away is God's word. It always helps. But when you have fear and problems you are more open and weaker to the negative thoughts. Sometimes it's not easy. People like us have to fight our own fears and God's enemy. When you are spiritually and emotionally much more open people and the devil can abuse that. But it definately is much easier with God's help 

I am not sure thought that the devil cannot hear us. Maybe he can only see us. But he has to know what our thoughts are if he can attack us on our weak spots. But with God you definately will be better protected against his lies. It's like you have a sort of spiritual shield around you. And i definately think those people who are more open to the negative will sense your fear and that you are God's child.

You know the Holy Spirit has a voice, a voice that tells you good things, gives you inspiration...and the devil has a voices, a negative one that tries to bring you down and de-motivate you.

Fighting the devil face to face gives me a sort of excorcist idea  Like a priest perfoming an excorism. Some people want to play God apperently. But that's only with strong bondage or possession. Daily (little) battles are just negative thoughts vs positive battles. Like you said, you can always pray for God's help and He will do the rest. He doesn't need your help. It's hard fighting the devil when you are not spiritually strong enough. But with God's help it's easier to resist his influences. I believe angels are always fighting for your soul against demons. You make it a little easier for them by staying on the right track.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Quinn the Eskimo said:


> These are just common misconceptions about spirituality. There is nothing evil controlling you or influencing you except yourself. You're taking away your own power by believing that. _It may seem like my explanation is mundane and psychological, but on the contrary, its quite mystical when you see the whole picture._
> 
> It's understandable that you think that way, it really is, because like i said before it definitely SEEMS like thats what is happening. but there is a bigger picture and life is not always what meets the eye.
> 
> ...


But how can you exclude a higher force from spirituality/faith/religion? When you believe in an immaterial reality? This higher force is God and angels and demons are part of it. One of the formost pracitices of spirituality is prayer to a outer force. To God or a god. It is the practice of being connected to an outer force, entity or larger dimension. How can a practice witch includes God be all in the mind? God surrounds us, is in the universe, is in side and outside of us. At least that's what most religions believe.

I understand what you are trying to say and how you think different. And I like to talk about this otherwise I wouldn't post  But I hope you just don't think I am crazy for believing different  Sometimes with atheists I get the impression that they think believers are all lost lunatics for believing in God and the spiritual world. We are perfectly sane  There is a big difference between a psychotic or mentally ill person and a believer. We do not necessarily are suffering from mental illnesses but just have certain beliefs. Does not mean we live in a dream world or that we lost connection with the real world


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Colonel Terrorist said:


> Aye,there is something like spiritual warfare,i know much about it,if u are not a soldier in King Jesus's army,then the enemy will easily corrupt your soul with darkness and greed.Demons DO exist,they are just not seen,i have seen demons in my life,i have fought them as well,some humans are also corrupted by demons,that is why there is human warfare,there is a Devil out there,but humans have forgotten about him a long time ago.i know that this makes probably no sense to u,well,perhaps u are an atheist,if u do understand this then u are very wise to love Him.If i seem like a religious fanatic,oh well,Christianity is not a religion,it's a lifestyle choice,so,perhaps u don't have to change your religion,just your lifestyle choice
> 
> PS:Our main army is stationed in heaven,i am merely a special forces operative,on mission from God.


Nice story  I think many people are bonded to demons without even knowing. Anything that keeps us addicted to this world and what makes us do bad things. There is a reason God (needs to) set(s) us free from bondage, sin and addiction. I am growing in my faith, overcoming my problems step by step and trying to give a better explanation for some of my fears from a spiritual point of view. Now it all makes sense to me. I don't want to fight/be mad at people I want to fight against the negative force behind them that influences them. People are just a victim of him. I definately believe the devil is behind negatvity and God helps us to overcome this


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## derpresion (May 17, 2012)

you. have. no. idea. O_O

actually you should be very grateful/happy in your situation, people. you are soo free right now, you cant imagine. 
dont ****ing waste it. i know sa alone makes everything difficult, but its not the worst thing you could have by far.. make your time worth anyway

i wish i knew what i know now times before >_>


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## justpassinby (Oct 21, 2008)

I definitely believe there is spiritual warfare going on. I think for believers it is Father filtered, meaning the attacks are under God's control and whatever God allows the devil to do is for character refinement. There is a purpose for it. I definitely have times where negative people or circumstances come at me out of seemingly nowhere and highlight my shortcomings. The spiritual battle is definitely real and has an impact on the physical world. 

The devil watches us closely from birth and knows our weaknesses and will try to use them against us. This makes it easier for me to forgive people or dismiss people's sometimes petty actions because I know they are just being used. Just like God uses people to do good things for others.


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## Quinn the Eskimo (Jan 22, 2012)

Royals said:


> But how can you exclude a higher force from spirituality/faith/religion? When you believe in an immaterial reality?


Technically, I don't exclude a higher force, I just exclude external negative entities.



> This higher force is God and angels and demons are part of it. One of the formost pracitices of spirituality is prayer to a outer force.


If you want to believe in angels and demons then you can. But actually, one of the common teachings of spirituality is to go inwards.. not outwards. One of the basic teachings is that there is nothing *out there*, its all a projection of the mind.

I don't know if what I just said is clear. I can try to rephrase it by saying that when you think an outside force is controlling you, its an _*illusion*_, the outside force is an inside force.



> To God or a god. It is the practice of being connected to an outer force, entity or larger dimension. How can a practice witch includes God be all in the mind? God surrounds us, is in the universe, is in side and outside of us. At least that's what most religions believe.


Because we're practicing in the realm of time and space, which is all in the mind. God is not something in the universe or of the universe. And it's not something separate from us.



> I understand what you are trying to say and how you think different. And I like to talk about this otherwise I wouldn't post  But I hope you just don't think I am crazy for believing different


no, not at all. _*Im*_ crazy in a lot of ways. youre no different from me. _(not the crazy bit, lol)_



> Sometimes with atheists I get the impression that they think believers are all lost lunatics for believing in God and the spiritual world. We are perfectly sane


agreed.


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## Quinn the Eskimo (Jan 22, 2012)

But god doesn't need to fight anything. Spirit doesn't need to fight anything. There is no enemy..

You are saying that what god is, and what spirit is can be threatened by something.. as if they need to send "special operatives" down to earth to fight their battle, colonel. what battle is there to fight?

The only enemy is the ego, which is only a concept and not an actual thing, you are mistaking it for an outside force when its only an inside thought system..

but thats just my opinion


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

justpassinby said:


> I definitely believe there is spiritual warfare going on. I think for believers it is Father filtered, meaning the attacks are under God's control and whatever God allows the devil to do is for character refinement. There is a purpose for it. I definitely have times where negative people or circumstances come at me out of seemingly nowhere and highlight my shortcomings. The spiritual battle is definitely real and has an impact on the physical world.
> 
> The devil watches us closely from birth and knows our weaknesses and will try to use them against us. This makes it easier for me to forgive people or dismiss people's sometimes petty actions because I know they are just being used. Just like God uses people to do good things for others.


I agree.


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## Air Jordan (Aug 2, 2012)

In reality, that's what this whole site should be focused on, because that's the MAIN reason people are on here and 99% don't know it. demons are behind their " SA " , period.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

justpassinby said:


> I definitely believe there is spiritual warfare going on. I think for believers it is Father filtered, meaning the attacks are under God's control and whatever God allows the devil to do is for character refinement. There is a purpose for it. I definitely have times where negative people or circumstances come at me out of seemingly nowhere and highlight my shortcomings. The spiritual battle is definitely real and has an impact on the physical world.
> 
> The devil watches us closely from birth and knows our weaknesses and will try to use them against us. This makes it easier for me to forgive people or dismiss people's sometimes petty actions because I know they are just being used. Just like God uses people to do good things for others.


@justpassinby, I agree also, well said  But I am not sure though that a loving God would allow the devil to tease us. But the devil does it on free will just like we have the free will to be opened to him. But yes, he is free to abuse this world so could be possible. Sometimes I do believe God is shaping us to be the best we can be. And through hard times we come out stronger. There is only one liar, one who tries his best to make us doubt, make us fall and destroy us. That is satam. And there is only one who heals us, loves us unconditionally and gives us strength to rise out of our problems. God 

Yes, I definately believe people are the victims and they are being used so we should try not to be mad at them but to feel sorry for them. So all we can do is pray for them


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Air Jordan said:


> In reality, that's what this whole site should be focused on, because that's the MAIN reason people are on here and 99% don't know it. demons are behind their " SA " , period.


Agreed. This is a problem wich we often try to dismiss or pass by unoticed. But it's very real. Instead of looking at our problems in only a phsychological way we should look at them in a spiritual way  If you
willingly open yourself to negativity you will drawn to negative forces more. If you are more positive you will attract positive people and forces. It's that simple. Do we let ourselves be victimized and let the negativity take over? Or do we hope and pray that we are protected against it? We have a free will and choice to do either of the two


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## GammaRadiation (May 21, 2012)

I think you guys should read Christianity in Crisis in the 21st century. It's about the extent of spiritual warfare and how it is misinterpreted in damaging ways commonly in the church. It's really helped me work out issues my mom gave me about thinking I was causing demons to give me illnesses.


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

derpresion said:


> you. have. no. idea. O_O
> 
> actually you should be very grateful/happy in your situation, people. you are soo free right now, you cant imagine.
> dont ****ing waste it. i know sa alone makes everything difficult, but its not the worst thing you could have by far.. make your time worth anyway
> ...


What exactly are you talking about?


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

GammaRadiation said:


> I think you guys should read Christianity in Crisis in the 21st century. It's about the extent of spiritual warfare and how it is misinterpreted in damaging ways commonly in the church. It's really helped me work out issues my mom gave me about thinking I was causing demons to give me illnesses.


Thanks for the suggestion  I think a lot more people are misguided and influenced by these negative forces or demons than we think. Any addicted person, or wordly person too addicted to materialism, sex, evil....We need to be carefull our spirit is pure and connected to God only.


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## GammaRadiation (May 21, 2012)

Royals said:


> Thanks for the suggestion  I think a lot more people are misguided and influenced by these negative forces or demons than we think. Any addicted person, or wordly person too addicted to materialism, sex, evil....We need to be carefull our spirit is pure and connected to God only.


Uhm, you misunderstood me. The book is about how demons are not like out to get us!

Seriously. I think it can help heal people who have been forced to think that their lives suck because they haven't had enough faith or whatever. That kind of self-blame mentality is MORE negative than any "evil spirit" that could possibly be out to get you.


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

GammaRadiation said:


> Uhm, you misunderstood me. The book is about how demons are not like out to get us!
> 
> Seriously. I think it can help heal people who have been forced to think that their lives suck because they haven't had enough faith or whatever. That kind of self-blame mentality is MORE negative than any "evil spirit" that could possibly be out to get you.


I don't believe Royals was talking about those type of issues. People shouldn't struggle with the belief that they don't have enough faith to recover, or that they have a demon that needs to be whacked out of them.

Royals was talking about spiritual oppression, demons in their evil nature influencing people to hate one another or themselves. As a Christian, I believe that there are two forces at work in this world. And having dabbled in the occult, I know what it's like to really have demons and I also know what it's like to be delivered through Christ. Now, there have been addictions I've been set free from just in one moment through God. Then, there are my other issues that take time, there are different methods of healing God has planned out for me.

But no way do I think a demon needs to be whacked of me if I struggle with say, for example, social anxiety. I believe in that case, to be set free, I need to renew my mind and resist the devil. The devil will tell me, "You're not that pretty, you're not worth anything, no one will ever love you." But God says, "I love you, I have a plan for your life and it's a good one, you are My daughter, You were made in my image, you are beautiful."

So renewing my mind, also part of overcoming social anxiety, stepping out, getting out of my comfort zone and believing God is with me every step of the way.

It sounds like you've had bad experiences growing up in your church or with your mom, and I'm really sorry for that.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Yes, I was talking about demons negatively influencing people just as God can positvely influence you. All negativity (hurt, hate, guilt, sickness) comes from a bad place in or out of us. We can choose to reinforce those feelings or not. Th's definately evil powers trying to make us doubt or addicted and who try to pull us to the dark side. People are only used as instruments or puppets. Some of us are more open or easilier open to negative influences and do bad things because of it. God can protect us.


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## Dragonfly2 (Oct 16, 2012)

*I agree*

I have lived a personal battle if you will all my life and I have often found myself telling people that you can blame others but ultimately the choice is yours.

You have to first have a strong relationship with the Lord to begin to understand that you can't stand on your own against the Prince of Darkness who seeks to destroy by using the influences of the world around you to sway you away from the truth.

The "battle" if you will is of the mind and the soul but God also acknowledges that some of us can't help who we are but he still encourages us to hold on to the Hope He offers us through the Word and what we allow ourselves to feed on through it.

At least that's what I think.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Dragonfly2 said:


> I have lived a personal battle if you will all my life and I have often found myself telling people that you can blame others but ultimately the choice is yours.
> 
> You have to first have a strong relationship with the Lord to begin to understand that you can't stand on your own against the Prince of Darkness who seeks to destroy by using the influences of the world around you to sway you away from the truth.
> 
> ...


Well said  We need to realize this is a battle of the spiritual. But we can let God and His angels fight them for us as long as we stay positive and close to Him


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

Royals said:


> Have you ever heard about spiritual warfare and that it might be a big part in your problems? It means that the enemy/evil/devil attacks you through addictions/people/bad distractions/your weaknesses to discourage you from doing good.
> 
> Like Paul said 'For *we are not fighting* *against flesh*-*and-blood enemies*, but against evil rulers and authorities of the *unseen world*, against *mighty powers in this dark world'*.
> 
> ...


 i believe there can be many reasons for problems. i have an open mind to that concept. i'm not sure,that i want to automatically assume, that it's all or mostly about evil forces behind a person,though.


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

Air Jordan said:


> In reality, that's what this whole site should be focused on, because that's the MAIN reason people are on here and 99% don't know it. demons are behind their " SA " , period.


can't demons be many things. they could be culture specific and personal attitude specific. what do you think? i think, they may or may not be attributable to supernatural forces,however that may be defined. they could be from the outside, or from within, or both.


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## FadeToOne (Jan 27, 2011)

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

FadeToOne said:


> The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.


if that works for you, fine. for me,that's just too easy an answer. the notion of a singular satan as an entity,just does not make sense to me,sorry... i believe in things out there,but i'm not going to put a name on it,just because i don't know what it is. i don't like labels,and satan is just a catch phrase, for things that we don't understand

i don't want a back and forth on this,so we can agree to disagree. because talks around these beliefs, just end up becoming circular discussions to nowhere.


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## FadeToOne (Jan 27, 2011)

bornunderprotest said:


> if that works for you, fine. for me,that's just too easy an answer. the notion of a singular satan as an entity,just does not make sense to me,sorry... i believe in things out there,but i'm not going to put a name on it,just because i don't know what it is. i don't like labels,and satan is just a catch phrase, for things that we don't understand
> 
> i don't want a back and forth on this,so we can agree to disagree. because talks around these beliefs, just end up becoming circular discussions to nowhere.


That was mostly metaphorical...


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

FadeToOne said:


> That was mostly metaphorical...


 what was metaphorical, you or me? i don't think i was,and if you're idea is to use symbolism, on a site that seeks to help people with everyday problems,i'm nut sure what your motivation for that would be.


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

Mimic said:


> I'm sorry you guys, but this just sounds like a way to avoid blaming yourselves for your own problems.
> 
> "My life is a mess... I'm an emotional wreck... It's not my fault, it's the devil's!"
> 
> You're never going to truly solve any of your problems when you think that way. My life was pretty screwed up for awhile too, but I'm doing much better now, all without any help from God.


i'm not troubled, by about your belief or non-belief, as the case may be. but it's impossible to say, god, did or did not, have anything to do with anything. we can't prove existence ,but we can't disprove it either. i get your point about devil scapegoating,but it does not follow that god can't exist,just because you say so or think so. and, he/she may not exist,but, we don't know,and that's the main point. certainty in this case is irrational,but it makes you feel good about yourself,because it fits your narrative of pulling yourself out of the dolldrums all on your own[or with friends perhaps]. and, perhaps you did.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

I believe that as long as there is evil in man there is evil outside or around man. Something or someone has give us thoughts or influence us, to do good or bad, wether it be visible or invisible. I believe in things you can, and can't see bt can experience/feel (on a deeper spiritual level.


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## cloister2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Yes. When I was young I felt I would be under attack someday. Sure enough when I entered high school there were 3 enemies waiting for me. It was like there was some evil force out to get me at a vulnerable time in my life.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

cloister2 said:


> Yes. When I was young I felt I would be under attack someday. Sure enough when I entered high school there were 3 enemies waiting for me. It was like there was some evil force out to get me at a vulnerable time in my life.


So do you fight/defend this unseen enemy with your faith or God?


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

Royals said:


> I believe that as long as there is evil in man there is evil outside or around man. Something or someone has give us thoughts or influence us, to do good or bad, wether it be visible or invisible. I believe in things you can, and can't see bt can experience/feel (on a deeper spiritual level.


 that makes sense,that works for me...i can relate to what you say here.


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

Royals said:


> @justpassinby, I agree also, well said  But I am not sure though that a loving God would allow the devil to tease us. But the devil does it on free will just like we have the free will to be opened to him. But yes, he is free to abuse this world so could be possible. Sometimes I do believe God is shaping us to be the best we can be. And through hard times we come out stronger. There is only one liar, one who tries his best to make us doubt, make us fall and destroy us. That is satam. And there is only one who heals us, loves us unconditionally and gives us strength to rise out of our problems. God
> 
> Yes, I definately believe people are the victims and they are being used so we should try not to be mad at them but to feel sorry for them. So all we can do is pray for them


i believe in god and the universe as being imperfect. the concept of "abraxas"[the title of the second santana album,btw] a god of good and evil,makes sense to me. i think the notion of a singular devil is silly. i do believe in the possibility of dark forces in the universe,but i'm not sure. i don't have a problem with not knowing. too many people, HAVE to believe in a pre-set system, to make them comfortable. that's okay,but i don't need that. the mystery,has its own deep and profound beauty.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

bornunderprotest said:


> i believe in god and the universe as being imperfect. the concept of "abraxas"[the title of the second santana album,btw] a god of good and evil,makes sense to me. i think the notion of a singular devil is silly. i do believe in the possibility of dark forces in the universe,but i'm not sure. i don't have a problem with not knowing. too many people, HAVE to believe in a pre-set system, to make them comfortable. that's okay,but i don't need that. the mystery,has its own deep and profound beauty.


That makes sense  But I do not believe because I _have _to. But because I _choose_ to. Believing in God and following His words is a disiplined path wich I believe makes me a better and more spiritual person. And I am interested in spirituality/religion and it's history. So why not? It's not like I hurt people or am mean to them. I just wish that more believers lived by Christ words and were not just believer by name


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## DubnRun (Oct 29, 2011)

yea


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## bornunderprotest (Oct 8, 2012)

Royals said:


> That makes sense  But I do not believe because I _have _to. But because I _choose_ to. Believing in God and folloeing His words is a disiplined path wich I believe makes me a better and more spiritual person. And I am interested in spirituslity/religion and it's history. So why not? It's not like I hurt people or am mean to them. I just wish that more believers lived by Christ words and were not just believer by name


i did not mean you specifically,i was talking in general,sorry...


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## The Sorrow (Aug 29, 2012)

According to Church Father Justin the martyr and Tertullian (in there apologetics) and some other Church Fathers, the demons have been the original force behind the persecution of Christians.


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## cloister2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Royals said:


> So do you fight/defend this unseen enemy with your faith or God?


I heard a good form of defense is to strengthen yourself, so this is what I am trying to do.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

The Sorrow said:


> According to Church Father Justin the martyr and Tertullian (in there apologetics) and some other Church Fathers, the demons have been the original force behind the persecution of Christians.


Yes, also in Rome and in WO 2. There is always an evil force behind wanting to kill God's children.


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