# for girls, do you like short guys?



## spike12321 (Sep 14, 2013)

hey girls, like the title says. out of the few girls i ask out, main reason they didnt go out with me is because i was short. im 5'0 (yep that right). so would you?


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## Asaad (Oct 4, 2013)

No, the guy has to be at least 2 inches taller then me.


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## Antasma (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm 5'9", so I can't speak from personal experience, but I've observed enough people to give you a definite answer in order to save you some time and disappointment. They don't. They just do not. At all. Being an exceptionally short man is one of the worst possible things you could be dealing with if you care at all about dating. Exceptions do exist, but are incredibly rare. You're quite ****ed.


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## monotonous (Feb 1, 2013)

every once in a while people ask questions with an obvious answer, so let me just summarize the answers for you:


girls do you like ugly guys? - no
girls do you like poor guys? - no
girls do you like short guys? - no
girls do you like *&^%$? - no


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## Peme (Jul 17, 2013)

https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


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## Beingofglass (May 5, 2013)

I know of one guy who is about 5', likely shorter. He's got a very attractive face, he is insanely popular, confident, athletic, have a massive Network, has a great job and is revered for holding the the World record in the bench press and could literally be a bodybuild due to his dedication. Everything else in his life is at the least put toghether nicely.
From chatting a bit with him occasionally in the gym, I found that even _he_ had to search for an eternity, and eventually he found a woman just slightly shorter than himself. Every other female I know, including my kind sister, have no issue with talking crap behind his back merely because of his height.
I am still kind of shocked.

I think that reality really do dictates that you should aim for women that are in the 4' range, though I know that this is very disheartening.


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## h00dz (Dec 25, 2012)

Whats considered short these days?


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

I know some short people with gf's.


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## Raynic781 (Feb 8, 2013)

Every girl is different, but I would prefer it if they were around my height (I'm 5'3 so I'm pretty short).


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

If you're really short (I'm talking 5-5'5), you're pretty much ****ed in terms of dating.


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## meepie (Jun 20, 2010)

I can't pick who I am attracted to. It just happens. I have liked a little person(polite term for someone with dwarfism) before,though.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Nah, I'm five foot one and a half and would be more than happy dating anyone over that height, exactly that height or a bit under. Maybe more than a bit under if I really liked them. There comes a point where it's awkward just like it was when I was dating a guy who was six foot. Ideal height for someone my height would be 5'5 to 5'10 probably. Even 5 foot 10 might be pushing it not sure... Hard to picture right now lol. Obviously it doesn't matter if you find the right person though.


Well, I based it on the fact women prefer someone taller than men and I'm pretty sure the average height for women is like 5'3. (contingent on location of course)


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## nrelax11 (Jun 9, 2013)

My friend is prettt short and he doesn't have much trouble getting girls, but they're either the same height as him or a tad bit shorter. I was at the orthodontist the other day and it was so funny how short all the girls working there were lol. I was towering over them, felt weird.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

Women are attracted to a man's social status. Height is merely an indicator of social status (taller guys are more likely to have high status.) But if you're a low status male, being tall won't do much for you in terms of attracting women.

Exhibit A

"2'8" high status male









and his girlfriend


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## monotonous (Feb 1, 2013)

Putin said:


> Women are attracted to a man's social status. Height is merely an indicator of social status (taller guys are more likely to have high status.) But if you're a low status male, being tall won't do much for you in terms of attracting women.
> 
> Exhibit A
> 
> ...


this, if you are not hot get rich


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## Kalliber (Aug 18, 2012)

I am 5'8.. ): please say yes lol


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

most girls like guys a few inches taller but if you are confident in yourself girls will overlook your height and be attracted to you.


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## spike12321 (Sep 14, 2013)

im confident in yourself, thanks for replys. most girls i ask out are 5'2-5'5. seems like im in trouble trying to find a girl. i guess i better get rich.

P.S. i must rob a bank : P


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

spike12321 said:


> im confident in yourself, thanks for replys. most girls i ask out are 5'2-5'5. seems like im in trouble trying to find a girl. i guess i better get rich.
> 
> P.S. i must rob a bank : P


Can I help as well? I need some money.


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

Most replies to a question asked of girls...are from guys. As usual. :roll

...

My answer? I'm five feet tall myself. So a guy being my same height *wouldn't bother me*. (Emphasis because a lot of guys here just refuse to believe this is ever, ever possible.) It might become awkward if he were shorter than I am, but 1. chances of that are rare, and 2. I honestly probably *would not care how tall he is* if we had enough in common. That's what's most attractive and important to me. Things in common. I *do not* get turned on by height or bodily build or hair or wealth or status or...yadda yadda yadda.

I just noticed the phrasing of the question. Do I _like_ short guys? I don't like them, I don't dislike them. They just are. There has to be *something else about them* that either draws me to them or repels me. Height *is not* that thing. (Nor is bodily build, nor hair, nor wealth, nor status, nor yadda yadda yadda...)

I know this will just be disregarded as unbelievable, so whatever.


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## laura024 (Aug 11, 2006)

No.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

tehuti88 said:


> Most replies to a question asked of girls...are from guys. As usual. :roll
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


So...guys can't chime in with their opinion at all. My reply was based on what I've observed about women's replies about height. The overwhelming conclusion, from what I've observed is that women prefer someone taller or as tall as them.


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## IHateComingUpWithUserName (Jul 11, 2013)

Well, considering I'm 4'9, every guy is either tall for me, or 12 years old. . You'll find someone I'm sure of it.


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## Kalliber (Aug 18, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> ...I wouldn't even consider that short lol...... I think the average height for women in the US is 5 foot 4 - 5 foot 5 by the way, so people who have a thing for really tall guys aside, you should be more than fine.
> 
> It varies by ethnic background but the overall average in the US for men is five foot 9 and a half for 20+ and for 20-29 five foot ten (not sure why they've seperated 20-29 )
> 
> ...


Well I am mexicna we pretty average ;3; 
BUT WOOOO!! yes :boogie
soooo.. when can you visit lol jk XD


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

I don't like people because they're tall or short. I've been attracted to a couple of guys who've happened to be a bit shorter though. I'm fairly tall but it makes me feel very awkward around shorter people so I guess insecurity goes both ways.

This reminds me of when I had a little crush on this boy from school who had dwarfism. 

And I do think Tehuti is right, it's fine to have your own opinion but this was a question aimed at girls, not at people making assumptions.


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## moloko (May 1, 2013)

tehuti88 said:


> I know this will just be disregarded as unbelievable, so whatever.


Not at all. I think the majority of the guys here are sensible and value the feminine opinion. It just happens that there seems to be a very vocal minority that like to post their borderline misogynist views. Which botters me very much because that seems to translate to every other guy of the forum, even if we don't share their opinions. Something like guilt by association. Consider that in the future.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

I don't really care.


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

gunner21 said:


> So...guys can't chime in with their opinion at all. My reply was based on what I've observed about women's replies about height. The overwhelming conclusion, from what I've observed is that women prefer someone taller or as tall as them.


Thread title: *for girls, do you like short guys?*

Just replying in the fashion the question was asked. :stu If the OP wanted it otherwise he could've phrased it, "Guys, do you think girls like short guys?" But he asked what we girls think. So...girls can't chime in with their opinion without getting guys telling them they're wrong, that's not what girls prefer at all?

Charmander answered it more succinctly:



Charmander said:


> ...it's fine to have your own opinion but *this was a question aimed at girls, not at people making assumptions*.


I find it quite telling how questions directly aimed at females around here are almost always monopolized by males, who then seek reasons to justify answering a question that wasn't even aimed at them. It makes me think I should go into threads aimed at guys and start assuming things and answering as if I can speak for men. Ah, why not go into a thread aimed at Asian users, or lesbians, or Californians, or something else I'm not, and answer as if I can speak for them? Since I can observe other users and reach "conclusions."

(Also, it's interesting that what you (Gunner21) have observed about women's attitude toward height...doesn't exactly mesh with what I've observed. Most women around here seem to prefer a guy somewhat taller than they are, yes, but 1. they don't usually insist he has to be hugely tall (and lots of guys on this forum have the bizarre idea that anything under 6'-something is "short" ), and 2. many of them say that lack of height can be made up for in other areas (i. e., it isn't always a dealbreaker). So no...not nearly as "overwhelming" a conclusion as you say.

Your "conclusion" (opinion) was based on your secondhand observations of others. My opinion is based on my own preferences, which is what the OP was asking for.

Oh, and BTW...



gunner21 said:


> ...women prefer someone taller or as tall as them.


_I said in my very own post that you countered that I wouldn't mind a guy as tall as I am._ *And I am 5' tall.* Your conclusion that any guy 5'5" and under is "screwed" in terms of dating = nullified, at least in one case. As well as in any other case of a woman 5'5" and under who doesn't mind a guy as tall as she is (you're the one who said it was possible!).

*So...according to your "conclusion," either women 5'5" and under don't exist, or you contradicted yourself.* :|

I'm done, don't want the thread locked. Already gave my opinion, which was what was asked for. So go ahead, disregard. I mean, _I'm only the gender the OP was addressing_, after all.

ETA, crossposted:



somename said:


> Not at all. I think the majority of the guys here are sensible and value the feminine opinion. It just happens that there seems to be a very vocal minority that like to post their borderline misogynist views. Which botters me very much because that seems to translate to every other guy of the forum, even if we don't share their opinions. Something like guilt by association. Consider that in the future.


Don't worry. I understand that the opinions of a vocal minority do not necessarily constitute the opinion of everyone of that gender.  Alas, the vocal minority is...well, vocal.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

tehuti88 said:


> Thread title: *for girls, do you like short guys?*
> 
> Just replying in the fashion the question was asked. :stu If the OP wanted it otherwise he could've phrased it, "Guys, do you think girls like short guys?" But he asked what we girls think. So...girls can't chime in with their opinion without getting guys telling them they're wrong, that's not what girls prefer at all?
> 
> ...


Ok, first of all I don't appreciate bolding and ridiculously sizing the text. It's like you think I'm 5 years old. It's condescending and rude.

Yes, the thread is meant for girls, but is there some sort of ban for guys to answer as well? I didn't know it was a crime to chime in with an opinion.

As for my statement, it's a generalized statement. There are bound to be some exceptions (like yourself), whenever one generalizes.

Also, my "conclusion" was about girls preferring males either equivalent to their height or taller. Again, this is a generalization and there are bound to be exceptions (see doesn't feel so good). Also, the OP asked the question about height, so I thought it would be safe to leave out personality, compatibility and all that good stuff.

I think the notion that anything under 6 is unattractive is ridiculous, but the OP is like 5 feet.

You can go ahead and give your opinions in the other threads you mentioned. No one is stopping you. I don't know why it's such a bad thing to speak your mind.

note: I'm not speaking for women. I'm just giving my opinion.


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## h00dz (Dec 25, 2012)

In b4 lock?


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

My boyfriend is about three inches shorter than me. I believe he's around 5'4".

The key word here is _boyfriend._


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## prettyful (Mar 14, 2013)

i like taller guys


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## h00dz (Dec 25, 2012)

AlchemyFire said:


> My boyfriend is about three inches shorter than me. I believe he's around 5'4".
> 
> The key word here is _boyfriend._


/thread


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## CrimsonTrigger (Jun 28, 2011)

AlchemyFire said:


> My boyfriend is about three inches shorter than me. I believe he's around 5'4".
> 
> The key word here is _boyfriend._


Sounds like nobody taller wanted you and you were forced to settle.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

CrimsonTrigger said:


> Sounds like nobody taller wanted you and you were forced to settle.


SAS logic


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

CrimsonTrigger said:


> Sounds like nobody taller wanted you and you were forced to settle.


That's a bit much to assume, and it is also very rude... And I'm pretty sure this would qualify as a personal attack...


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

illmatic1 said:


> That's a bit much to assume, and it is also very rude... And I'm pretty sure this would qualify as a personal attack...


Don't worry, he's just joking. But thanks for your concern


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## CrimsonTrigger (Jun 28, 2011)

illmatic1 said:


> That's a bit much to assume, and it is also very rude... And I'm pretty sure this would qualify as a personal attack...


I am joking. I'm the boyfriend that she speaks of.


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## AmandaMarie87 (Apr 24, 2013)

As long as they are at least a couple of inches taller than me I'm fine with it. I'm 5'3" BTW.


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## Moochie (Nov 11, 2012)

If I was 4'9" I would like anyone taller than me. Don't they call short fun-sized?
I'm 5'7" so being with a shorter guy is weird for me. I prefer same or taller. That's just me.


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## Frostbite (May 14, 2013)

CrimsonTrigger said:


> I am joking. I'm the boyfriend that she speaks of.


well that escalated quickly. didn't even realize she turned her PM back on.


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## TheHopeless (Sep 11, 2013)

Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


And this is why I've given up dating, talking to people and my faith in humanity.


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## Frostbite (May 14, 2013)

TheHopeless said:


> And this is why I've given up dating, talking to people and my faith in humanity.


ouch, wtf is this


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## Auroras (Jul 24, 2013)

I've dated men my height before but I prefer someone I can look up to and make me feel great in my heels


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## Mousey9 (Dec 27, 2012)

Not gonna bother reading this thread but this is how it usually goes down.

Someone asks an obvious subjective question.
A guy states that ALL females likes only this or that.
Usually a girl chimes in and and says it depends on the person.
A bunch of dude mimics the first guy.
1 or 2 pissed off females quotes everyone telling them they're wrong.
Someone post's a popcorn gif.
Gender war breaks out.
Our hero, The Dark Knight, saves the day.

edit:


Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


ooooman I remember see this before. This post should come with a warning post like NSFW but instead NSFSM lol.


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## markwalters2 (Mar 18, 2013)

I'm pretty sure women would prefer taller men. Just like men prefer shorter women.


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## h00dz (Dec 25, 2012)

infamous93 said:


> Not gonna bother reading this thread but this is how it usually goes down.
> 
> Someone asks an obvious subjective question.
> A guy states that ALL females likes only this or that.
> ...


+1 internets


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

markwalters2 said:


> I'm pretty sure women would prefer taller men. Just like men prefer shorter women.


I'll hide if I were you now. You're going to have a female posse come after you with guns blazing for speaking for them and telling them what they like. Please stay safe.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

monotonous said:


> this, if you are not hot get rich


and charismatic with a good sense of humor, not to mention the social status of being a celebrity.

Seriously, why do people post celebrity as an example of "if they can do it, you can too."??? It's not helping.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

AlchemyFire said:


> My boyfriend is about three inches shorter than me. I believe he's around 5'4".
> 
> The key word here is _boyfriend._


Key word is "Time lord" :um

Seriously, how's that working out for you?


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

Frostbite said:


> well that escalated quickly. didn't even realize she turned her PM back on.


Not really actually, it took about 10 months. I can get messages from people in my contacts, so if you'd really like to send me a message, you can add me as a friend.



TheHopeless said:


> And this is why I've given up dating, talking to people and my faith in humanity.


Not everyone is like that. It's like putting a bunch of racist comments together ... yes, there _are_ some people who think that way, but that doesn't mean everyone is racist. Just like not everyone has prejudice against shorter guys. Yeah, the truth is that a lot of girls won't give you a chance, but does that mean that _no_ woman will.



markwalters2 said:


> I'm pretty sure women would prefer taller men. Just like men prefer shorter women.


That's true, and if you don't want to be rejected for being too short, try and ask out girls that are at least two inches shorter than you. Then she can't pull some bull**** about not being able to wear heals.



arnie said:


> Key word is "Time lord" :um
> 
> Seriously, how's that working out for you?


Couldn't be happier. And for the purpose of this thread, I'd still want to date him if he was 5'0".

This could have something to do with being Gallifreyan but don't hold me to it.


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

gunner21 said:


> I'll hide if I were you now. You're going to have a female posse come after you with guns blazing for speaking for them and telling them what they like. Please stay safe.


LOL, no male is safe on a topic relating to females. :teeth edit: (for the record I am just joking here, please do not attack me female mafia.)


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

SilentLuke said:


> LOL, no male is safe on a topic relating to females. :teeth edit: (for the record I am just joking here, please do not attack me female mafia.)


'' *****es be crazy. ''


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## FunkyFedoras (Aug 30, 2013)

My height or taller (I'm not even that tall though).


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## markwalters2 (Mar 18, 2013)

gunner21 said:


> I'll hide if I were you now. You're going to have a female posse come after you with guns blazing for speaking for them and telling them what they like. Please stay safe.


Women are physically more vulnerable and a taller man will definitely give her a better sense of security. So there. Collect my body by the end of the week.


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## TheHopeless (Sep 11, 2013)

AlchemyFire said:


> Not everyone is like that. It's like putting a bunch of racist comments together ... yes, there _are_ some people who think that way, but that doesn't mean everyone is racist. Just like not everyone has prejudice against shorter guys. Yeah, the truth is that a lot of girls won't give you a chance, but does that mean that _no_ woman will.


Hmm... you speak the truth.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

TheHopeless said:


> Hmm... you speak the truth.


You'll be okay :squeeze


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## TheHopeless (Sep 11, 2013)

AlchemyFire said:


> You'll be okay :squeeze


But... I have no social skills. Doh!


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## FineArtInSilver (Oct 2, 2013)

I had a relationship with someone a little shorter than me for ten years  He's a shorter guy, and he even has a new girlfriend now (we're still friends), so it's probably not as bad as you think. Oh, and he doesn't have any social skills either, he's actually pretty weird.


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## chemengchick (Oct 7, 2013)

I actually prefer shorter guys. I'm 5'3 and I like guys from 5'-5'7 the best. I hate having to crane my neck up to make eye contact. I'm a bit self conscious about being so short so I prefer someone who doesn't make it obvious. However, I would _like_ to believe if I met a great guy who was 6'3 I'd simply wear higher heels and get over it. Doesn't seem too likely though.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

infamous93 said:


> Not gonna bother reading this thread but this is how it usually goes down.
> 
> Someone asks an obvious subjective question.
> A guy states that ALL females likes only this or that.
> ...


You been here way too long.


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## spike12321 (Sep 14, 2013)

visualkeirockstar said:


> You been here way too long.


haha too funny, i just wanted to get opinions.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

TheHopeless said:


> And this is why I've given up dating, talking to people and my faith in humanity.


That's ridiculous, with most forms of discrimination people either try and keep it to themselves or they'll be like 'no offence but 'insert vaguely insulting thing here, that's not too explicit' but they're all out on this...



infamous93 said:


> Not gonna bother reading this thread but this is how it usually goes down.
> 
> Someone asks an obvious subjective question.
> A guy states that ALL females likes only this or that.
> ...


:lol exactly.


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## VickiLeigh (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm only 5'1", and 1 inch doesn't make a big difference.


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## hughjames95 (Sep 21, 2013)

Find a girl shorter than you. Simples.


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

There are two types of "short". one being in terms of outright stature (which, in North America/Europe is probably 5'7 and under). The other is in relative stature compared to the woman. so even if the woman was 6 feet, a guy who is 5'10 is considered short to her, and therefore, out of the question.

Unfortunately, no woman will consciously go for a man who is shorter than her. She may "settle" for one, but I couldn't imagine a guy shorter than her being her first choice.

For me, this is a very disappointing reality. I'm 5'6, and even the average Canadian girl is taller than me. As the object of shallow rejections over the years, it has slowly changed my attitude for the worse. As a form of protest, I will not consider any girl who's heavier than me as dating material (or those of a BMI heavier than normal for their height). Too fat.


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

Shorter guys are better in bed, just ask my previous zero girlfriends... I'm not kidding though I'm like a pocket rocket (5'8 isn't even that short)


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

Micronian said:


> Unfortunately, no woman will consciously go for a man who is shorter than her. She may "settle" for one, but I couldn't imagine a guy shorter than her being her first choice.


Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it never happens...a LOT of the observations I see expressed on this forum as being "impossible" are things I see IRL all the time. Women who _consciously_ do go for guys shorter than they are might be very rare, and it might be a fetish, but there's a preference for everything.



Micronian said:


> As a form of protest, I will not consider any girl who's heavier than me as dating material (or those of a BMI heavier than normal for their height). Too fat.


That's a rather silly reason to not date fatter women, as a "form of protest." I doubt your protest will affect the world--or women's romantic preferences--that much...in fact I doubt it'd affect them at all. All it does is narrow *your own* chances somewhat. :| Why not just refuse to date them because you're not attracted to them? At least that makes sense.


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## PainisLove (Nov 28, 2009)

dude whatever you do, you have to persistently practice the art of flirting and making girls smile with your charm and wit.. your going to get more no's than yesses but you can't ever get down on yourself.. 

you probably put up with alot of **** but if you can just learn to brush all that off and not be reactive or put stock into what low scum humans say you'll be much better off... The online dating world is stacked against you bro, practice in the real world where it really matters unless you got a webcam and a mic to flirt with chics


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## Mlochail (Jul 11, 2012)

Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


Empty, soulless, sick, twisted ****. But it is with lots of others things, too, to the point you end up with a world filled of people like that. That is the truth. It's the answer to the why on the Nazi question. Things like that make me wanna cut myself off from humanity forever. I don't mind those people and their opinions to be honest for they are worth **** to me.

Might just have my balls cut off and live in the woods and meditate all day. Sounds like a sane idea to me.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

Funny that this topic came up. I recently met a dude online who lied about his height, he added at least 4 inches. When I met him, I was like, Ok, either this guy doesn't know how to measure his height or he is just a liar- pretty sure he was just a liar. Now if he had been honest about his height, I wouldn't have been mad. He claimed to be 5 foot 5 and he was more like 5 foot 2 or 1. Very petite.

I would consider dating a guy shorter, I mean it wouldn't be IDEAL but whatever. If he was a nice guy and funny, and we got along, I would date him.

Whatever you do, just don't lie to people and say you're taller- NOT CUTE!


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## Beingofglass (May 5, 2013)

Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


huh.. I'm not even short, yet this makes me want to scratch my eyes out.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm really going to give the most straightforward answer:

1. On average, girls prefer tall guys, so being excessively short is a disadvantage. *Research already seems to point to this conclusion.*

2. Like any other features, it can be compensated by other positive traits about you. From what I've read in some medical website, women's libidos tend to be more fluid and influenced by social standards, while men's are triggered more reliably by looks.

My dad is short, and yet he still managed to seduce my tall mom. :yes And no, he's not a multimillionaire nor a celebrity.



gunner21 said:


> Ok, first of all I don't appreciate bolding and ridiculously sizing the text. It's like you think I'm 5 years old. It's condescending and rude.
> 
> Yes, the thread is meant for girls, but is there some sort of ban for guys to answer as well? I didn't know it was a crime to chime in with an opinion.
> 
> ...


You're good man, I chuckled on the inside. :lol



monotonous said:


> every once in a while people ask questions with an obvious answer, so let me just summarize the answers for you:
> 
> 
> girls do you like ugly guys? - no
> ...


You win the internet today! Have a thumbs up from me!


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

im short and girls love me


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> im short and girls love me


I'm short and guys love me.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> I'm short and guys love me.


righteous!


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> righteous!


Duuuuuuude


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> Duuuuuuude


can we be best friends???? pleeeeaase....


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> can we be best friends???? pleeeeaase....


Go on then. I don't think 5'8 counts as short so we can't hide in plant pots or anything together and surprise Japanese tourists. Shame.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> Go on then. I don't think 5'8 counts as short so we can't hide in plant pots or anything together and surprise Japanese tourists. Shame.


im 4 foot 1 i dont have any legs


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> im 4 foot 1 i dont have any legs


I think I've found my new draft excluder.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> I think I've found my new draft excluder.


i got my legs blowed off in 'nam


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hands up people, who had to google "draft excluder" to find out what one was.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> Hands up people, who had to google "draft excluder" to find out what one was.


i knew bro but **** google its all about bing homie


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> i knew bro but **** google its all about bing homie


Bing is the socially anxious search engine, it's there but no one pays it much attention and it's too small to do anything about it.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> Bing is the socially anxious search engine, it's there but no one pays it much attention and it's too small to do anything about it.


thats why i like it bing is my homie... FIGHT THE POWER


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> thats why i like it bing is my homie... FIGHT THE POWER


Yeahhhhh Bing could be a ladies man if he had the confidence, but he's cool about being the dark, shy poetic type. He smokes out of a pipe and wears trenchcoats while reading 18th century sonnets in moody cafes. Every site he recommends is deep and engaging. His favourite pornography is when the couple "make love" and he has posters of music "you probably haven't heard of" on his wall.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> Yeahhhhh Bing could be a ladies man if he had the confidence, but he's cool about being the dark, shy poetic type. He smokes out of a pipe and wears trenchcoats while reading 18th century sonnets in moody cafes. Every site he recommends is deep and engaging. His favourite pornography is when the couple "make love" and he has posters of music "you probably haven't heard of" on his wall.


i feel u i feel u... ur making TOO MUCH sense


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

jealousisjelly said:


> i feel u i feel u... ur making TOO MUCH sense


I can go to sleep happy now knowing I'm a slightly short guy who makes TOO MUCH sense.


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## jealousisjelly (Feb 22, 2011)

vanilla90 said:


> I can go to sleep happy now knowing I'm a slightly short guy who makes TOO MUCH sense.


aint nuttin to it but to do it ya feel me??


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

vanilla90 said:


> Yeahhhhh Bing could be a ladies man if he had the confidence, but he's cool about being the dark, shy poetic type. He smokes out of a pipe and wears trenchcoats while reading 18th century sonnets in moody cafes. Every site he recommends is deep and engaging. His favourite pornography is when the couple "make love" and he has posters of music "you probably haven't heard of" on his wall.


sooo...a hipster?


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


That is unnecessary its one thing to not be attracted to short men but these women are down right disgusting. If this is what short men had to deal with I sympathize with you guys.


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

Jesuszilla said:


> That is unnecessary its one thing to not be attracted to short men but these women are down right disgusting. If this is what short men had to deal with I sympathize with you guys.


Women are incredibly shallow when talking amongst themselves; just as shallow as men, really.

Heck, I've even overheard my sister, my mom, and my aunt--on separate occasions--rule out potential "suitors" on the basis of height. In fact, it's the first thing they say when ruling out a guy. "He's too short"! <--and this, despite them all being 5'2 or shorter.


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## TheHopeless (Sep 11, 2013)

Micronian said:


> Women are incredibly shallow when talking amongst themselves; just as shallow as men, really.
> 
> Heck, I've even overheard my sister, my mom, and my aunt--on separate occasions--rule out potential "suitors" on the basis of height. In fact, it's the first thing they say when ruling out a guy. "He's too short"! <--and this, despite them all being 5'2 or shorter.


H8 THOSE KINDS OF PEOPLE. H8 THEM!!!:bat


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

It would be kinda cute to have a guy I could carry around on my back.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

vanilla90 said:


> Yeahhhhh Bing could be a ladies man if he had the confidence, but he's cool about being the dark, shy poetic type. He smokes out of a pipe and wears trenchcoats while reading 18th century sonnets in moody cafes. Every site he recommends is deep and engaging. *His favourite pornography is when the couple "make love"* and he has posters of music "you probably haven't heard of" on his wall.


:lol


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

probably offline said:


> :lol


Bing has a wonderful taste in porn.


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## Farideh (Nov 13, 2011)

NO


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## StayTrueToYou (Aug 30, 2013)

Here's a good question for us guys, do you like tall girls? 

Tall girls are a turn-off for me in general, unless they are extremely hot or something. Using the same logic it makes sense that girls don't like short guys.


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## UnDenied (Oct 10, 2013)

Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


Damn.

Couldn't facepalm any harder if I tried


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## Mlochail (Jul 11, 2012)

StayTrueToYou said:


> Here's a good question for us guys, do you like tall girls?


Yes. Macrophilia ftw.


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## thinkstoomuch101 (Jun 7, 2012)

no.. that napoleonic complex gets in the way..


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## ImmortalxApathy (Feb 19, 2011)

I think it's bs that someone wouldn't get to know you or at least go on a date with you because you're short. Some people (Shakes head). I know that someone's height wouldn't affect what I thought of someone. I'd give them a chance and if we hit it off, we hit it off. I don't judge on looks. I judge on heart.


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## CrimsonTrigger (Jun 28, 2011)

We short guys have an advantage. While taller guys will look older more quickly, us shorties will look youthful forever. When you're all 30 and have to show ID to get into R rated movies, I'll still have the opportunity to pretend that I'm 16 and sneak in.

It's not much, but life will never get boring at least.


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## Emma91 (Dec 2, 2012)

I have nothing against short men!
But I feel more like a girl if im with a guy that is taller than me thats for sure.


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## SeraphSoul (Aug 4, 2013)

Honestly....I prefer tall guys...But I had a crush once on someone shorter than me before!


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

AlexDelarge91 said:


> I have nothing against short men!
> But I feel more like a girl if im with a guy that is taller than me thats for sure.


So then what do you feel when you're with someone shorter than you? Do you feel like a man??:con


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## Emma91 (Dec 2, 2012)

Micronian said:


> So then what do you feel when you're with someone shorter than you? Do you feel like a man??:con


Ok I guess that came out a bit wrong... 
What I was trying to say was taller men make women feel smaller, protected, and in a way perhaps more feminine.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

Micronian said:


> Women are incredibly shallow when talking amongst themselves; just as shallow as men, really.
> 
> Heck, I've even overheard my sister, my mom, and my aunt--on separate occasions--rule out potential "suitors" on the basis of height. In fact, it's the first thing they say when ruling out a guy. "He's too short"! <--and this, despite them all being 5'2 or shorter.


That's brutal.


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## h00dz (Dec 25, 2012)

Just FYI, I saw a short guy with a taller lady today in the supermarket - Shock Horror. Must of been a mirage.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

ImmortalxApathy said:


> I think it's bs that someone wouldn't get to know you or at least go on a date with you because you're short. Some people (Shakes head). I know that someone's height wouldn't affect what I thought of someone. I'd give them a chance and if we hit it off, we hit it off. I don't judge on looks. I judge on heart.


Hmm...Reeaaly? I judge on the size of the D.  JK!!


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## fm5827 (Mar 7, 2011)

I have a friend who is 5'5'' and he is great with women, he is really social though can strike up a conversation with anyone he meets. Then I'm 6' and horrible with women, I think it pretty much just comes down to confidence.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

monotonous said:


> every once in a while people ask questions with an obvious answer, so let me just summarize the answers for you:
> 
> 
> girls do you like ugly guys? - no
> ...


Meanwhile, knowing this is the case, I started a topic on SAS to buck this and ask if my written description sounded attractive or not and if anyone could share feedback about that description. No pictures, no "are X kind of guys attractive", no mention of my concern over looks or anything else. Almost all the replies either focused on 1 aspect of my description that they wanted to reject based on other posts of mine on the forum or asked for a picture (completely missing the point) or just outright insulting me.

Basically, don't ask SAS people for feedback on anything.

All this forum seems useful for is to a place to dump stories of our misery, ignore any replies, and watch a small group of regular posters having ongoing love-fests or infighting over nothing important.

It's stupid to expect useful advice here anyway even if was given. It's full of people who have significant social or behavior issues, myself included. The only reason to even exist here is to find people who might at least understand your difficulties but barely any do.


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## Noll (Mar 29, 2011)

didn't know most girls think short guys is such a turn-off.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

TheHopeless said:


> And this is why I've given up dating, talking to people and my faith in humanity.


That feed is atrocious. What's even more disheartening is that's just the people (mostly women) who are vocal about it in a super-public way, there's probably tons of people for each one of them who think the same but don't talk publicly about it because they know they'd be judged harshly for it. They all deserve the worst life has to offer them.


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

for every short guy there is an even shorter girl out there somewhere, waiting for him, possibly on a specially heightened chair.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> Funny that this topic came up. I recently met a dude online who lied about his height, he added at least 4 inches. When I met him, I was like, Ok, either this guy doesn't know how to measure his height or he is just a liar- pretty sure he was just a liar. Now if he had been honest about his height, I wouldn't have been mad. He claimed to be 5 foot 5 and he was more like 5 foot 2 or 1. Very petite.
> 
> I would consider dating a guy shorter, I mean it wouldn't be IDEAL but whatever. If he was a nice guy and funny, and we got along, I would date him.
> 
> Whatever you do, just don't lie to people and say you're taller- NOT CUTE!


I'm curious - presuming he was truthful about his height, say he was 5'1" or whatever, would he have shown up on your dating site radar? You say, "if he had been honest about his height, I wouldn't have been mad" but do you mean if he turned out to actually be 5'5" or if he said in his profile that he was 5'1" or if he simply didn't list his height and you only found out when meeting him what his height was?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> That is unnecessary its one thing to not be attracted to short men but these women are down right disgusting. If this is what short men had to deal with I sympathize with you guys.


It actually is, just viewing it all in one place coming in the form of some of the most vile comments makes it seem even more disgusting to those of us who experience this sort of perception from others.

Thankfully not everyone is like this but it's such a common attitude thrown at us that whenever we try to describe it to others who never had the experience (either due to being female or due to being at least average 5'9" or taller) it's like we're imaging it. It's like being handicapped but people are allowed to publicly **** on you, even though it's not anything like a handicap and has no basis on the value of the person in any way (it's something they can't control, it's genetic). It's no different than the color of someone's skin. People who are fat or ugly can at last do things to get thinner, fit or fix features, but short is pretty much impossible to change. Even look at the pictures of a lot of the people making such comments, they look like minorities who themselves may have at some time in their life experienced judgement on them from ignorant people based solely on their race or skin - yet it's perfectly OK for them to show public hate of others based solely on height.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

StayTrueToYou said:


> Here's a good question for us guys, do you like tall girls?
> 
> Tall girls are a turn-off for me in general, unless they are extremely hot or something. Using the same logic it makes sense that girls don't like short guys.


The last girl I slept with was 4" taller than me. I personally didn't care but it was slightly awkward-feeling when standing next to her even when we were alone. That's not common, though, most often I only manage to end up with girls who are around my height or shorter. I would have liked to see her again but she stopped replying to my texts.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Here's the Youtube video from that Twitter feed:






After watching this I wonder how I even manage what I do.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm 5'10 and I feel short nowadays thanks to misc.


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## DailyWeekly (Sep 25, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> I'm curious - presuming he was truthful about his height, say he was 5'1" or whatever, would he have shown up on your dating site radar? You say, "if he had been honest about his height, I wouldn't have been mad" but do you mean if he turned out to actually be 5'5" or if he said in his profile that he was 5'1" or if he simply didn't list his height and you only found out when meeting him what his height was?


A better question yet, if the man had been 5'9" (four inches taller instead of shorter) instead, would it have been a turn off still?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I doubt I'd even notice or care to be honest unless they were significantly shorter or taller than me. I'm five foot one and a half, so it would be obvious they'd lied if they were shorter than me, if they weren't I wouldn't probably even notice unless they seemed to be really towering over me, because I'm rubbish with height and such  no skills in that area at all it seems. I can't look at someone and gauge their height other than in relation to myself.


The question was posed to Tinydancer20.

But... if the question posed WAS to you, say you could tell, that they lied but by under 4", if they turned out to be taller than they claimed.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I know, I was just answering anyway lol. I'd go along with the date anyway and see how it went but I won't lie that I have a preference for them being slightly shorter, my height, or a little taller. A lot taller and a lot smaller are turn offs for me I guess you could say, but not deal breakers.


Right, but if a guy lied about being taller than he was vs lied being shorter than he was. Is the lie equal? If you knew he lied, would it bother you? And, if it did bother you, how would you feel with a guy who lied about being taller than he was vs one who lied about being shorter than he was?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> The lie is equal to some extent, and I'd probably worry a tiny bit that he was insecure about his height and that might be an issue later. I could understand more if he was shorter and lied based on societys reactions. Despite being a woman I've gotten a lot of teasing and such over the years for being short actually myself. If he was taller and lied about being shorter I must admit I'd be a little confused? Unless he was really tall like 7 foot 2 or something. I'd probably let it slide, if it wasn't a big difference there's always the chance that he just didn't know his height and put some random figure down.
> 
> There must have been something about their profile that I liked in the first place that made me want to go on the date and you can bet it wasn't the height. I'd be more concerned if they'd lied about whatever drew me to them in the first place. Like if they said they really liked travelling and going to music festivals, and concerts (which would be something I'd like in someone I was dating) and it turned out they hated all those things. Not sure why someone would lie about that, but yeah, that would be a dealbreaker for me.


Then you seem like one of the good ones, you're at least seeing why a guy might lie about height if he's on the shorter side and you're willing to let that slide and would also naturally wonder why a taller guy would lie about being shorter because you can see the messaging by society to make short a superficially negative trait and tall a superficially positive one.


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## Glass Child (Feb 28, 2013)

I like people.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> I'm curious - presuming he was truthful about his height, say he was 5'1" or whatever, would he have shown up on your dating site radar? You say, "if he had been honest about his height, I wouldn't have been mad" but do you mean if he turned out to actually be 5'5" or if he said in his profile that he was 5'1" or if he simply didn't list his height and you only found out when meeting him what his height was?


He came up as a match on my thing and I didn't put any specific height requirement in. Whatev, doesn't really matter anyway, he turned out to be a huge dbag and I regret meeting him as he said a few weird rude things to me.. I think he was bitter towards women because he gets rejected a lot, but that is no reason to treat someone poorly that you just met. I also read his twitter after we hung out and there was a lot of random rude and arrogant things on it.. -_-. If I had read his twitter before we met, I probably would've ran for the hills. .


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> He came up as a match on my thing and I didn't put any specific height requirement in. Whatev, doesn't really matter anyway, he turned out to be a huge dbag and I regret meeting him as he said a few weird rude things to me.. I think he was bitter towards women because he gets rejected a lot, but that is no reason to treat someone poorly that you just met. I also read his twitter after we hung out and there was a lot of random rude and arrogant things on it.. -_-. If I had read his twitter before we met, I probably would've ran for the hills. .


OK BUT if he seemed like a nice guy and otherwise was fine, but had still lied about his height being 5'5" but instead of being 5'1" what if he showed up as 5'9"? All else being fine, since you didn't mention anything else before other than that lie, it would be interesting to get your take on that.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> OK BUT if he seemed like a nice guy and otherwise was fine, but had still lied about his height being 5'5" but instead of being 5'1" what if he showed up as 5'9"? All else being fine, since you didn't mention anything else before other than that lie, it would be interesting to get your take on that.


I don't really understand what you are getting at? He was a complete jerk.. If he had been a nice, funny guy that I was actually compatible with, then it would've been fine that he was short. He was actually a pretty cute guy, but his douchebaggyness really bothered me and I didn't feel a connection to him. And like I said before, the fact that he lied about his height and pretended to be 5 foot 5 when he clearly wasn't bothered me too. That would be like me saying I have double D breasts then showing up with an A cup. Do you see whatI am getting at ??? Lol


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> I don't really understand what you are getting at? He was a complete jerk.. If he had been a nice, funny guy that I was actually compatible with, then it would've been fine that he was short. He was actually a pretty cute guy, but his douchebaggyness really bothered me and I didn't feel a connection to him. And like I said before, the fact that he lied about his height and pretended to be 5 foot 5 when he clearly wasn't bothered me too. That would be like me saying I have double D breasts then showing up with an A cup. Do you see whatI am getting at ??? Lol


You never mentioned before that he was a jerk, you said that when you first met him he was more like 5'1" when he claimed before meeting that he was 5'5" and based on that alone you determined he was a liar and also said if he didn't lie about his height you wouldn't have been mad. So, presuming if he was a guy who was NOT a jerk and that was the only thing that irked you, some of us are curious if he had lied in the other direction (claiming to be shorter than he was instead of taller) how you would have felt about it.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

I already told you in my previous post..I said if he was a nice guy then his height wouldn't have mattered to me.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> I already told you in my previous post..I said if he was a nice guy then his height wouldn't have mattered to me.


You said lying matters to you and you are disgusted by liars, so if he said he was 5'5" and turned out to be 5'9" but otherwise didn't have any other issues than that alone would be a rejection flag for you.


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## monotonous (Feb 1, 2013)

oh god this thread is still alive


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

VanGogh said:


> You said lying matters to you and you are disgusted by liars, so if he said he was 5'5" and turned out to be 5'9" but otherwise didn't have any other issues than that alone would be a rejection flag for you.


you should let it go man.

you're trying to shame her into a corner, but I don't see any discrimination with what she wrote


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## Alas Babylon (Aug 28, 2012)

VanGogh said:


> You said lying matters to you and you are disgusted by liars, so if he said he was 5'5" and turned out to be 5'9" but otherwise didn't have any other issues than that alone would be a rejection flag for you.


We all know you're hoping for her to say "_Oh but 5'9 is better_" so you can make her look bad and feel good about yourself. Just drop it, you aren't doing yourself any favours.


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## AshleyAnn (Sep 15, 2013)

I dated a guy who was shorter than me and tbh I always felt awkward/ uncomfortable standing next to him. I'm 5'6 and he wasn't that much shorter but I felt like a GIANT when standing next to him.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Alas Babylon said:


> We all know you're hoping for her to say "_Oh but 5'9 is better_" so you can make her look bad and feel good about yourself. Just drop it, you aren't doing yourself any favours.


Who asked you? It's a fair question and on topic to this thread.


----------



## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

Complaining about someone chiming in on a public discussion.


----------



## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

.. is it honestly that surprising that females generally prefer a guy who is taller than them? I mean really?

I think a dealwithit.jpg is applicable.


----------



## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

Elad said:


> .. is it honestly that surprising that females generally prefer a guy who is taller than them? I mean really?


I doubt many people are surprised. More disappointed, angry and bitter that something they can't change about themselves is considered unwanted, unattractive.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

scooby said:


> I doubt many people are surprised. More disappointed, angry and bitter that something they can't change about themselves is considered unwanted, unattractive.


It is tough. I think really short guys have it harder than anyone other than obese women in the dating market. not fair, but then life isn't


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> Who asked you? It's a fair question and on topic to this thread.


If a guy were to say they were 5 foot 5 then show up and be 5 foot 9 I would still be weirded out and annoyed. In that case, it would maybe seem that the guy was testing me to see if I cared about height or something? I wouldn't like that either- seems manipulative either way. Honesty is always better than lying about anything because liars get caught anyway. I'm 5 foot 4, what if I lied and said I was 5 feet tall and then showed up to a date 4 inches taller? I'm sure on the guy's end he would be annoyed too, what's the point of lying about that? It just makes you appear untrustworthy to flat out lie about your appearance.


----------



## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Elad said:


> .. is it honestly that surprising that females generally prefer a guy who is taller than them? I mean really?
> 
> I think a dealwithit.jpg is applicable.


No it's not surprising. It's the societal duplicity which is tolerated by most that aggravates those of us who have to live with being pigeon-holed over something completely outside our control. I would gather you're probably 5'9" or taller, so you won't really get it. It's like dealing with condoned racism. Those of us who "deal with it" know that our actual value isn't based on our height but it's rather aggravating when we try to assert this as an equality issue because it's often responded to by those who don't experience the issue to want to sweep it under the rug.


----------



## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> If a guy were to say they were 5 foot 5 then show up and be 5 foot 9 I would still be weirded out and annoyed. In that case, it would maybe seem that the guy was testing me to see if I cared about height or something? I wouldn't like that either- seems manipulative either way. Honesty is always better than lying about anything because liars get caught anyway. I'm 5 foot 4, what if I lied and said I was 5 feet tall and then showed up to a date 4 inches taller? I'm sure on the guy's end he would be annoyed too, what's the point of lying about that? It just makes you appear untrustworthy to flat out lie about your appearance.


OK, finally thanks for answering. The reason I was asking was because I wanted to know if even if you were saying that height didn't matter to you, if there was still some kind of perception to see the same kind of lie differently depending on height. Meaning, to see if you're open-mindedness was still somehow skewed by society - in that case only you would really know because it would be based on your gut reaction to the situation and not necessarily what you might think intellectually about it. Like, a lot of us like to say we are not superficial but often we come across situations in life where we make judgements based on superficial things even if we're not really aware of it.


----------



## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

euphoria04 said:


> It is tough. I think really short guys have it harder than anyone other than obese women in the dating market. not fair, but then life isn't


It's not an impossibility, but it is hard.

In dating what makes it frustrating is that anyone can pull up examples of people they know who didn't appear limited by height, but those are anomalous situations and not the norm. It's extremely frustrating to hear people disregard it as an issue mainly based on the facts that they don't experience it, it's implicitly condoned by society, and because there are occasional examples of someone overcoming the issue it gives those people an out to say it's the short person's fault for their lack of success. That video posted earlier makes this explanation extremely clear.

In other areas, it's ever-present. In workplaces where these days absolutely nothing seems to be tolerated not treating people equally, except for short men - public mockery is common and nobody thinks it matters. That tolerance reinforces superficial stereotypes which then lead to common perceptions that people fall to without even questioning their own thoughts about it.

As for overweight women - at least they have the option and capability to lose weight. A guy who's much shorter than average has no options to change that. So their only choice is to to take it on the chin because if they try to verbalize a means to defend themselves, point out the hypocrisy or even try to correct the mistreatment they'll be seen as having a Napoleon complex or thought of as "angry little men" or called names or their actions will just be used to confirm the validation of the mistreatment.


----------



## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

Tinydancer20 said:


> If a guy were to say they were 5 foot 5 then show up and be 5 foot 9 I would still be weirded out and annoyed. In that case, it would maybe seem that the guy was testing me to see if I cared about height or something? I wouldn't like that either- seems manipulative either way. Honesty is always better than lying about anything because liars get caught anyway. I'm 5 foot 4, what if I lied and said I was 5 feet tall and then showed up to a date 4 inches taller? I'm sure on the guy's end he would be annoyed too, what's the point of lying about that? It just makes you appear untrustworthy to flat out lie about your appearance.


I hear you (actually, I'm surprised other cannot understand).
In a dating site, everything is still pretty mysterious before you have met and actually talked. So when you discover a lie so early on it does send a warning flag that such person could lie about something else. Physical features is just one element. Most reasonable people will let it go, unless the character flaw is more than just lying about your appearance.

And women do it too. they lie about their age and their body type.



VanGogh said:


> It's not an impossibility, but it is hard.
> 
> In dating what makes it frustrating is that anyone can pull up examples of people they know who didn't appear limited by height, but those are anomalous situations and not the norm. It's extremely frustrating to hear people disregard it as an issue mainly based on the facts that they don't experience it, it's implicitly condoned by society, and because there are occasional examples of someone overcoming the issue it gives those people an out to say it's the short person's fault for their lack of success. That video posted earlier makes this explanation extremely clear.
> 
> ...


You make it sound like it's a disease. Being short makes life a little bit harder, but nothing that a positive attitude couldn't overcome. Even attraction.


----------



## Mlochail (Jul 11, 2012)

Micronian said:


> I hear you (actually, I'm surprised other cannot understand).
> In a dating site, everything is still pretty mysterious before you have met and actually talked. So when you discover a lie so early on it does send a warning flag that such person could lie about something else. Physical features is just one element. Most reasonable people will let it go, unless the character flaw is more than just lying about your appearance.
> 
> And women do it too. they lie about their age and their body type.
> ...







This is part one, there are two more parts after that.
If you're done watching this you will see it is actually TREATED as a disease by many women.


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## VeMuñeca (Sep 5, 2013)

I wouldn't mind dating a short guy. I'm really short myself so just about everyone is taller than me.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Micronian said:


> You make it sound like it's a disease. Being short makes life a little bit harder, but nothing that a positive attitude couldn't overcome. Even attraction.


I'm not making it out to be a disease, it's society doing that.

Yourself you wrote this:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...-short-guys-659354/index4.html#post1067195010

where you admit that, 'Unfortunately, no woman will consciously go for a man who is shorter than her. She may "settle" for one, but I couldn't imagine a guy shorter than her being her first choice.'

You make it sound even worse than I have. If I looked at it like a disease, I wouldn't even try, I'd have given up. However, I do often feel like a big reason (not the only reason) nothing lasts with women I've tried to be with is because I'm not a first choice. I'm mister convenient if they want to get laid (sometimes) and sometimes they have an interest in me for other reasons like I'm helpful to them in some way or help them feel a certain way, but so far in life none have given me love. It never occurs to them that I'm worthy of that because I don't fit what they want for that. Often I don't even feel like I'm fighting their individual perceptions, I'm fighting the power of the entirety of modern civilization and all the messages it imprints on their belief system. It's like trying to get through to a brainwashed person.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Mlochail said:


> This is part one, there are two more parts after that.
> If you're done watching this you will see it is actually TREATED as a disease by many women.


The video is sharing something truthful but at the same time the way they had the guy running up to women to try to get a positive reaction was all wrong.


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## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

Considering this is an SA "support" site, I am assuming some members' attitudes on this topic are exacerbated by online dating sites which put your "stats" out there at face value, to be easily judged. If you were talking to someone in person, how can someone guess your exact height and weight just by looking at you? 

Personality, mannerisms, and communication skills are far more judged in the overall. Body language is a natural beacon for attraction. Just because something may be considering limiting, doesn't mean it is a zero sum deal. There are other people out there all shapes and sizes looking for the same things as you. Whether you are choosing to sit on the sidelines, or try to make moves for yourself, is your decision.

I hate to sound cliche, but I feel its all about working on the things you can change and accepting the things you can't. Changing, adapting, growing, and learning, all a part of the human experience.


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

VanGogh said:


> I'm not making it out to be a disease, it's society doing that.
> 
> Yourself you wrote this:
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...-short-guys-659354/index4.html#post1067195010
> ...


odd.

I said 'consciously' because I tend to believe a woman's attraction to height is an instinctive reaction; a reflex.

Being small my whole entire life, this was a topic that I really paid attention to, especially while I was in high school, and the explanation that keeps coming back, repeatedly, is that of *protection*. Now, in our modern world, protection is a non-issue. You can _BUY _all sorts of protection much more effective than any man, as well as the fact that we opt to live in organized society where dangers do not surround us.

Therefore, the feeling of needing protection is inherited from prehistoric man, where survival truly depended on man's physical strength. Modern society makes this need obsolete, and if a woman starts thinking reasonably, pragmatically, then height has less importance than other elements (Just like how a man will instinctively go for the big-breasted "****" rather than the "plain-jane" despite the fact that the plain-jane is the better pragmatic choice).

But there is one thing that hasn't changed despite "evolving" into modern society: that a man will only survive (and attain a mate) based on the use of his talents. It's not height or brute strength anymore, it's now about education/creativity/social skills/ that gives him a stable home and financial "protection" to make it in this world.

Any man who gives up and says that it's because he's not tall enough that his life sucks (whether in love or otherwise) has a problem far bigger than just his height.


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

...Meanwhile, all those women who are saying short height isn't a dealbreaker for them go completely ignored. :roll

All righties, makes perfect sense. Keep on seeking the affection of women for whom height is everything. And good luck with that. We women who don't have an issue with it will just seek elsewhere...for guys for whom height _isn't_ everything.

Surely they must exist. Maybe they'll notice us?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Micronian said:


> I said 'consciously' because I tend to believe a woman's attraction to height is an instinctive reaction; a reflex.


You have your notion of conscious reversed, I'll explain in a second, by mostly agreeing with what you're saying but emphasizing something closer to reality.

I understand this aspect as well, and I no more blame women for having a built-in UNconscious mechanism to desire height as I would blame men (myself included) for instinctually desiring youth & certain kinds of beauty. These are biological imperatives that exist in our brains because although humans have advanced technologically, our brains have not evolved to match what is most imperative to survival in our time (short of an apocalypse that tears away the fabric of civilization).

For all intents and purposes, what matters most for survival and success in the modern day is intelligence, creativity, ingenuity, perseverance, awareness, experience and connectedness. Power and access to resources is a shortcut to the same value so those can't be ignored. Having extremely good looks or being very tall is near-meaningless, except for the value it brings to trigger the more primitive mind for reasons of influence (to sell a product, persuade, hide other lacking values).

So when you say, 'Unfortunately, no woman will consciously go for a man who is shorter than her. She may "settle" for one, but I couldn't imagine a guy shorter than her being her first choice.' you are actually interpreting the opposite. Women are not consciously making these choices, they are unconscious, drilled into them by the world around them and therefore not questioned. Nobody has ever challenged women making these kind of decisions, but if you see in the video from the news program I pasted in earlier in this discussion when confronted by their own illogical superficiality that's when their minds crack a little and they begin to think both consciously and rationally.

Then you look at the Singapore videos, all 3 parts, and you learn that when women are asked to explain their choice they usually at first don't know how to explain it. The best they can piece together is a vague notion of "security". But security from what? Barbarians aren't at the gate. They can earn their own wages. The sexes are mostly treated equal and on a trajectory to total equality if not outright female advantage. Survival and even success can be had by things completely unrelated to looks or height, yet their biological imperative for height still exists.

We have learned as humans that getting past biological imperatives is one through outside influence. That's what makes human brains so powerful - that even with an evolutionary forcefulness, our brains can bend to suit the environment and social structure. If that were not the case we would still be beating each other with clubs for raw pieces of meat. So why has something like height preference still persisted? It persists because it suits the majority who benefit from and perpetuate its existence, it suits the current make-up of society to maintain that status quo. This leaves us with a situation where even if the population could be influenced to know that height is an irrelevant trait, that is not being done, so all that anyone is left to go on is their instinctual bias.

So women "settle" not against their conscious bias, they "settle" against their unconscious bias which has never been challenged. If instead of society reinforcing illogical biological instinct, it helped to contradict it and to educate sense rather than senselessness, women's gauges would be less easily influenced by unexplainable urges. Heightism would become an anomaly, not the norm.



Micronian said:


> But there is one thing that hasn't changed despite "evolving" into modern society: that a man will only survive (and attain a mate) based on the use of his talents. It's not height or brute strength anymore, it's now about education/creativity/social skills/ that gives him a stable home and financial "protection" to make it in this world.
> 
> Any man who gives up and says that it's because he's not tall enough that his life sucks (whether in love or otherwise) has a problem far bigger than just his height.


This is where your rationale breaks away from having some sense into idealism. It would be lovely if that is how society worked, and although all those things are indeed lauded by society, the implication of greater height being more valuable still overtakes those ideals because we do not have a rationale built into our society to fight against that urge.

As an example, and not to shift to religion but it's a proper example, we are given commandments and rules that teach humans how to rise above their primitive instinct. Don't kill. Don't steal. Work hard. Play fair. Etc. But nothing along the lines of "don't judge people based on superficial traits". I mean it took until the mid-1800s to abolish slavery and another 100 years after that to reach a point of reasonable civil liberties for all. Humanity is still struggling with matters of equality even at a time where we've learned to split the atom, construct a real-time worldwide communication network, travel to the moon, take pictures of planet surfaces billions of miles away.

Heightism is very much the same as sexism. I can say for sure sexism is far worse but the premise is the same. Using someone's attribute that they are born with to judge them and treat them different.

Complaining about it is not "giving up". You might as well say to women to not fight for sexual equality. You will be told the same thing I'm going to tell you - that unless you fight for a right that you are not given, you could work hard all your life with idealism in your heart but still be limited by an unfair environment. You don't go out into the cold without a coat, do you? You are like saying, "The weather outside may be cold, but you will starve if you stay indoors and avoid freezing to death trying to catch a rabbit." and I am saying, "It's cold outside and I want to go outside and catch 10 rabbits but the group that is living in this house with me are hoarding all the coats." I'm complaining about the hoarding and you're saying my only choice is to go outside and freeze to death as if that's logical. No, my logic is to point out the inequality, make the people in the house become aware of their hoarding behavior, give up a damn coat and I'm more than happy to jump outside to get more things done in life. I've been outside without that proverbial coat and it's insanely freezing.


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## CrimsonTrigger (Jun 28, 2011)

I feel the need to ask a question to those women who say they would not date a man shorter than them (and men who say they wouldn't date a woman taller than them). 

Hypothetically, let's say you meet someone who does not fit your ideal height range. They are either too tall or too short for you. But let's also say that in terms of personality and looks, they are exactly what you are looking for, minus the height. Would you completely give up on this person simply because they are taller or shorter than you?

I don't know about all of you, but I think I would be willing to overlook that issue if I knew I was in love with this girl. And I am


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

CrimsonTrigger said:


> Hypothetically, let's say you meet someone who does not fit your ideal height range. They are either too tall or too short for you. But let's also say that in terms of personality and looks, they are exactly what you are looking for, minus the height. *Would you completely give up on this person simply because they are taller than shorter than you?*


NO.

I would consider myself quite lucky to find such a person--and have them love me in return--in fact. I couldn't let something as trivial (IMO) as non-ideal height get in the way of that. Ideal-height guys with incompatible personalities are a dime a dozen. A short guy who has everything else I'd be looking for, who loves me in return?...incredibly rare, possibly unique. (In reality, probably nonexistent.) To pass that up over height alone would be foolish of me.



CrimsonTrigger said:


> I don't know about all of you, but I think I would be willing to overlook that issue if I knew I was in love with this girl.


The same with me.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> OK, finally thanks for answering. The reason I was asking was because I wanted to know if even if you were saying that height didn't matter to you, if there was still some kind of perception to see the same kind of lie differently depending on height. Meaning, to see if you're open-mindedness was still somehow skewed by society - in that case only you would really know because it would be based on your gut reaction to the situation and not necessarily what you might think intellectually about it. Like, a lot of us like to say we are not superficial but often we come across situations in life where we make judgements based on superficial things even if we're not really aware of it.


The majority of people are superficial in some way.. No one wants to date someone that they deem unattractive. I don't feel the need to apologize for preferring a guy to be taller than me and like I said before, I could date a guy shorter if we clicked really well..so I'm not even that superficial. And that shorter guy who I said was a jerk, I hung out with him twice, just to make sure there was nothing there, and he was a still an arrogant jerk, and we just didn't really click that well.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

Mlochail said:


> This is part one, there are two more parts after that.
> If you're done watching this you will see it is actually TREATED as a disease by many women.


I'm surprised with the stats they have. Only 14%? That's kind of sad.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

CrimsonTrigger said:


> I feel the need to ask a question to those women who say they would not date a man shorter than them (and men who say they wouldn't date a woman taller than them).
> 
> Hypothetically, let's say you meet someone who does not fit your ideal height range. They are either too tall or too short for you. But let's also say that in terms of personality and looks, they are exactly what you are looking for, minus the height. Would you completely give up on this person simply because they are taller or shorter than you?
> 
> I don't know about all of you, but I think I would be willing to overlook that issue if I knew I was in love with this girl. And I am


No, I wouldn't completely give up on him but he'd really have to be my ideal in other ways. He'd have to be vegetarian, have similar political beliefs, be very fun to hang out with, among other things I won't mention here.


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

Good arguments. I think we agree on a lot of things, but I disagree on some points. I'll note them below:



VanGogh said:


> So when you say, 'Unfortunately, no woman will consciously go for a man who is shorter than her. She may "settle" for one, but I couldn't imagine a guy shorter than her being her first choice.' you are actually interpreting the opposite. * Women are not consciously making these choices, they are unconscious, drilled into them by the world around them and therefore not questioned.*


I very much disagree. I don't think this is 100% true at all. To me, the "unconscious" is the chemical reaction in our bodies, that eventually reach our brains, and is finally processed as "attraction". Our thoughts, and our social learning does not control this (it's why you cannot convert a gay person), so, to me, attraction is totally unconscious. Now, I'm not a woman, and I don't know what male attributes stimulate a chemical reaction in the female body. I can only make a guess that diminutive height is not a "turn on". 
Whatever else the world may drill into our minds is secondary because so much _other stuff _is drilled into our minds, and often conflicting. This is what I mean by 'settle'. We all try to reach the best compromise between our attractions and our cultural obligations.



VanGogh said:


> This is where your rationale breaks away from having some sense into idealism. It would be lovely if that is how society worked, and although all those things are indeed lauded by society, the implication of greater height being more valuable still overtakes those ideals because we do not have a rationale built into our society to fight against that urge.


I can only speak for myself, if I'm not able to get accepted because of my height, I would work so hard as to make my talents so desired that I would have to be accepted despite of my height. 
I tend to believe today's world is a bit more rational and educated than what it was 120 years ago, with plenty of rights/freedoms to overcome cases of "heightism". One of my big heroes is a soccer player named Diego Maradona. He was tiny, kind of chubby, and yet he is the arguably the greatest soccer player of all time. You must believe your talents will overcome, otherwise you'll just wilt and die.



VanGogh said:


> Complaining about it is not "giving up". You might as well say to women to not fight for sexual equality. You will be told the same thing I'm going to tell you - that unless you fight for a right that you are not given, you could work hard all your life with idealism in your heart but still be limited by an unfair environment. You don't go out into the cold without a coat, do you? You are like saying, "The weather outside may be cold, but you will starve if you stay indoors and avoid freezing to death trying to catch a rabbit." and I am saying, "It's cold outside and I want to go outside and catch 10 rabbits but the group that is living in this house with me are hoarding all the coats." I'm complaining about the hoarding and you're saying my only choice is to go outside and freeze to death as if that's logical.


I think we have our notions of complaining mixed up. To me, "complaining" is the act of talking about something you don't like, while never trying to solve that problem. In your case, "complaining" is an element of solving the problem. I tend to believe most solidarity movements do more than just speak out and complain. They are very organized and have a variety of ways to overcome their problem. but in your example about the cold weather, the complaint that you make does not get you fed (unless you do more than complain, like stealing a coat, but it then becomes "action", which is what I'm talking about.).


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## e200e (Mar 31, 2013)

Peme said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/expsnghghtsm


lol damn what a bunch of *****es .


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

AlchemyFire said:


> I'm surprised with the stats they have. Only 14%? That's kind of sad.


I was actually surprised it was that HIGH. Based on experiences, if I were to make a guess at what that number is in the US, it would be more like 5%. Even then you still have to match their personal preference for looks among other things.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> I was actually surprised it was that HIGH. Based on experiences, if I were to make a guess at what that number is in the US, it would be more like 5%. Even then you still have to match their personal preference for looks among other things.


If this is your experience, have you been rejected based on your height by girls that you cold approached / barely knew, or girls that you were more acquainted with first?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

AlchemyFire said:


> If this is your experience, have you been rejected based on your height by girls that you cold approached / barely knew, or girls that you were more acquainted with first?


I've been rejected for more reasons than just height, it's not the only reason. If you don't know them or don't talk to them long enough, you really can't know why you're rejected and most women will never say to your face that you're too short unless you're in a superficial environment that rewards women for acting like c**ts like obnoxious night clubs.

Sometimes you hear it in other situations. Sometimes girls who have taken the time to get to know you but didn't build up an interest will say it nicely, as if there's a nice way to tell someone they're being rejected for a superficial reason. Sometimes even if you sleep with them they may not outright reject because of that but they will keep their options open and also if you're like anyone here in SAS even in a milder way you'll have that working against you as well. I've had some girls who at least stayed kind of like friends with me slip up and give me some nickname or refer to me in a way that indicated their true feeling about my height. Often it's said in a way like "you're not my type" or that they don't want to be seen dating a guy that is not their "type" and later you often learn that their type might as well be you (or worse than you) with just 1 or 2 upgrades like looks or height.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> This actually makes no sense anyway because I converted his height in metres to feet, and he's five foot six ish. The average height for men in Singapore is five foot seven (so he's barely below average) and the average height for women is five foot three (so he's three inches above the average woman there.) and like, he's pretty cute and has other stuff going for him  :stu
> 
> I don't get it.


He's not a towering tall guy, that's it. It doesn't matter because the average height of women in Singapore is not that much less than 5'7". Add heels and they'll still pass over guys who are not tall because to those women height is equivalent to not having arms.

If 5/10 men in Singapore are "tall enough" those women will primarily only pay attention to those 5/10. If there are only 2/10 tall enough, they'll pay attention to those 2/10 and ignore the rest. They'll share guys if they have to just to always only be pursuing tall guys and not settle for an average or shorter one. Then complain that they always get cheated on or that there aren't enough quality guys to go around.


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## StrangePeaches (Sep 8, 2012)

I like 6 ft 2 ish


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## markwalters2 (Mar 18, 2013)

I like tall guys.


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## Chappy02 (Sep 27, 2012)

I prefer guys who are taller than me but I don't mind if a guy is shorter than me. I have dated a guy who was shorter than me. I once went on a date with a guy who was shorter than me.


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## Parsnip (Sep 5, 2013)

I like most people, regardless of height. My decision to like someone is not based on the fact they're short, tall, or average but on whether they've given me a reason to not like them. However when it comes to physical attraction then it gets a little more complicated, I mean, height is just one factor and while I'm happy to admit I've found short men attractive a scenario has never arisen where this attraction can be properly tested to see if it would be sustained should the opportunity for my creepy "you're rather lovely looking" feelings to develop into some sort of dating situation.



VanGogh said:


> They'll share guys if they have to just to always only be pursuing tall guys and not settle for an average or shorter one. Then complain that they always get cheated on or that there aren't enough quality guys to go around.


ORLY?

Personal observations inform me that many women seem perfectly content with men of average/short height providing other factors line up. Like every other aspect of the physical form exceptions are made when other attributes overshadow what may be viewed as an imperfection.

There are several short men (between 5'0 and 5'6) at work who seem to have had little difficulty in finding a woman happy to become their long-term partner, a number of them are happily married with several short children running around too. While I'm sure short men probably have the same issue as tall (5'10+) women when it comes to dating (prospective partners finding the height a turn off) evidence would suggest that if people just keep trucking they'll find someone who is quite happy to see past the height because of all the other attributes they possess which put them in the running as a prospective partner.

Then again most men in my local area are shorter than average, so perhaps the choice is limited in these parts so my observations are suffering from regional bias.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Parsnip said:


> ORLY?


Yes, really, but I can understand your confusion if you just skimmed what I said and didn't notice the very specific language used.

The poster I was replying to couldn't understand why the particular set of women from the video would keep overlooking shorter guys and only seem to consider tall guys.

This was not in regards to "all women" but those specific women and women like them.

Here, let me repeat:



> He's not a towering tall guy, that's it. It doesn't matter because the average height of women in Singapore is not that much less than 5'7". Add heels and they'll still pass over guys who are not tall because to *those women* height is equivalent to not having arms.
> 
> If 5/10 men in Singapore are "tall enough" *those women* will primarily only pay attention to those 5/10. If there are only 2/10 tall enough, they'll pay attention to those 2/10 and ignore the rest. They'll share guys if they have to just to always only be pursuing tall guys and not settle for an average or shorter one. Then complain that they always get cheated on or that there aren't enough quality guys to go around.





Parsnip said:


> Personal observations inform me that many women seem perfectly content with men of average/short height providing other factors line up.


What do you mean "providing other factors line up"? Do you mean everything else being equal or do you mean if the shorter guys somehow compensate for their lack of height more than a tall guy would be expected to?



Parsnip said:


> Like every other aspect of the physical form exceptions are made when other attributes overshadow what may be viewed as an imperfection.


Consider what you're saying, though. Most people make first impression judgements on others, so therefore when thinking they need to choose between a tall guy or a short guy, the tall guy is given a pass and the short guy is expected to compensate for his "imperfection". The tall guys just have to avoid messing up while the short guy has to go above & beyond to show his worth.



Parsnip said:


> There are several short men (between 5'0 and 5'6) at work who seem to have had little difficulty in finding a woman happy to become their long-term partner, a number of them are happily married with several short children running around too. While I'm sure short men probably have the same issue as tall (5'10+) women when it comes to dating (prospective partners finding the height a turn off) evidence would suggest that if people just keep trucking they'll find someone who is quite happy to see past the height because of all the other attributes they possess which put them in the running as a prospective partner.


That's fine, most people (who are relatively "normal") will eventually find someone to be with. That doesn't mean the short guys got the same chances as other taller men. It does just mean they "kept on trucking" as you say. Many times that's a difficult thing to maintain, so it's not a consolation to know things sometimes work out. It would be a better thing to stop observing or listening to women overtly making a decision initially based on height. Yes, when given a chance I would presume a lot of shorter guys would be appealing, the issue isn't that - the issue is barely getting that chance in comparison to taller guys.


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## Parsnip (Sep 5, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> Yes, really, but I can understand your confusion if you just skimmed what I said and didn't notice the very specific language used.
> 
> The poster I was replying to couldn't understand why the particular set of women from the video would keep overlooking shorter guys and only seem to consider tall guys.
> 
> This was not in regards to "all women" but those specific women and women like them.


There was no confusion, I'm just surprised you'd come to that theory about those particular women if their specific type just so happens to be taller men to the exclusion of shorter men. No need to repeat and bold, I was aware you were referring to a collective of women and I still find the leap from the fact they overlook shorter men to these women being willing to share partners if it means not settling for someone who is average/short in height. Lots of people say lots of things, and lots of people will express their preferences in absolute terms, but what people say and do will not always line up to what actually happens.

Having watched the other parts of the linked video I certainly did not get the impression that those women would be willing to share partners, and then whine about how they can never find a good man or any of that. I just got the impression that they'd prefer a taller man, and then when faced with a shorter man who approached them in the street with a camera crew and interviewer just stated their preferences.



> Consider what you're saying, though. Most people make first impression judgements on others, so therefore when thinking they need to choose between a tall guy or a short guy, the tall guy is given a pass and the short guy is expected to compensate for his "imperfection". The tall guys just have to avoid messing up while the short guy has to go above & beyond to show his worth.


And at the risk of having you go to great pains to repeat yourself again and state that I'm skim reading I will revert to my "ORLY?" response. They do make first judgements on people, everyone does it, for various reasons. However I'm not entirely sure that tall men are given an automatic pass or that short men are actually expected to compensate for their imperfection, it simply means that one has the height and the other doesn't, which means it's up to other factors of their personality/physical appearance that are essentially the same thing only at different ends of the spectrum. The tall man doesn't have to avoid messing up, it just means that they are noticed more immediately by some women as a prospective partner. I have no doubt some will immediately discount a short man, but those I have known and those I continue to know do not seem to immediately discount short men or even expect them to make up for their shortness. The only difference is that where people are involved with a tall man some seem to refer to the fact that their first impressions of their partner happened to be "he's tall" and with the shorter men it's normally another attribute.



> What do you mean "providing other factors line up"? Do you mean everything else being equal or do you mean if the shorter guys somehow compensate for their lack of height more than a tall guy would be expected to?


I mean that overall something about that person made the other person want to be with them. I don't even mean everything else being equal, I mean that person having something that makes the other person want them. There's no compensation, plenty of jokes between some of the more tongue in cheek couples but rarely anything that comes across as being a compensation for their height. Dating is the result of various factors lining up, therefore if someone has a preference (but not an exclusive one) for tall men but a prospective partner has a whole load of other factors which that person finds appealing, then the fact one factor is off is generally only ignored if the height of a partner is an essential element for sexual/physical attraction.



> That's fine, most people (who are relatively "normal") will eventually find someone to be with. That doesn't mean the short guys got the same chances as other taller men. It does just mean they "kept on trucking" as you say. Many times that's a difficult thing to maintain, so it's not a consolation to know things sometimes work out. It would be a better thing to stop observing or listening to women overtly making a decision initially based on height. Yes, when given a chance I would presume a lot of shorter guys would be appealing, the issue isn't that - the issue is barely getting that chance in comparison to taller guys.


Isn't that the thing with most people though? If we think about life based around "chances" we realise nearly everyone has something which reduces their chances in comparison to what we hold to be an ideal and thinking about the fact that someone is considered disadvantaged because of a particular attribute does nothing but focus on that perceived disadvantage. A tall man may be deemed to have more chances than a short man, but this tall man may perceive himself as having fewer chances due to various other factors going on that perhaps the shorter individual overlooks because all they see is the fact he's tall, women in general like tall men, and therefore he must have more chances than shorter men to find a prospective partner (generally speaking). Yet this thread is full of women, some of whom are honest about their preferences for taller men and some of whom are honest about the fact height is a largely unimportant factor for them, which would indicate that in the big old world of preferences you of course have those that are more common than others (tall men, slim women, etc.) but you also have people who are going around, shrugging their shoulders wondering what all the fuss is about. Surely the issue is more that people concentrate on the perceived "lack of chances" they have as a shorter man, and that concentration can lead to a self fulfilling prophecy as they're constantly looking for something to confirm that their height is an issue?

I'm not sure it would necessarily be better to stop "observing or listening to women overtly making a decision initially based on height", but perhaps recognising that preferences exist within the majority of human beings when it comes to their prospective partners and the preferences of some, even if they appear to be the majority, should not dictate how one feels about factors they cannot change. Especially when there are women who have been quite honest about height being a non-issue for them, and women who admit that their answer would be different depending on whether height was the only factor being considered or whether there was a much more complex picture to be taken into consideration.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Parsnip said:


> There was no confusion, I'm just surprised you'd come to that theory about those particular women if their specific type just so happens to be taller men to the exclusion of shorter men. No need to repeat and bold, I was aware you were referring to a collective of women and I still find the leap from the fact they overlook shorter men to these women being willing to share partners if it means not settling for someone who is average/short in height. Lots of people say lots of things, and lots of people will express their preferences in absolute terms, but what people say and do will not always line up to what actually happens.


Then take my word, as a short man, that's how those women will be. If you are a short man, you might as well be armless or an axe murderer.

Does that mean it is the exclusive thing I have experienced? No. But given that the the exclusionary preference is to prevalent, I often wish women who had that preference (which in my experience is the vast majority) would wear signs that say "I won't be interested in you at all if you're not tall by societal standards."



Parsnip said:


> Having watched the other parts of the linked video I certainly did not get the impression that those women would be willing to share partners, and then whine about how they can never find a good man or any of that. I just got the impression that they'd prefer a taller man, and then when faced with a shorter man who approached them in the street with a camera crew and interviewer just stated their preferences.


Then take my word, as a short man who has a number friends who are tall, that's how those women will be. Why else do you sometimes hear from "normal" men (ones without emotional issues) who are tall (especially in the 6'2" range) that they're grateful for being tall? It's because they know they have that advantage in life.



Parsnip said:


> And at the risk of having you go to great pains to repeat yourself again and state that I'm skim reading I will revert to my "ORLY?" response. They do make first judgements on people, everyone does it, for various reasons. However I'm not entirely sure that tall men are given an automatic pass or that short men are actually expected to compensate for their imperfection, it simply means that one has the height and the other doesn't, which means it's up to other factors of their personality/physical appearance that are essentially the same thing only at different ends of the spectrum. The tall man doesn't have to avoid messing up, it just means that they are noticed more immediately by some women as a prospective partner. I have no doubt some will immediately discount a short man, but those I have known and those I continue to know do not seem to immediately discount short men or even expect them to make up for their shortness. The only difference is that where people are involved with a tall man some seem to refer to the fact that their first impressions of their partner happened to be "he's tall" and with the shorter men it's normally another attribute.


I don't know where you live but just about everywhere I can think of that I have lived or been, it goes well beyond observation and is in the realm of inflexible preference. Not even as simple as a preference but as a demand.



Parsnip said:


> I mean that overall something about that person made the other person want to be with them. I don't even mean everything else being equal, I mean that person having something that makes the other person want them. There's no compensation, plenty of jokes between some of the more tongue in cheek couples but rarely anything that comes across as being a compensation for their height. Dating is the result of various factors lining up, therefore if someone has a preference (but not an exclusive one) for tall men but a prospective partner has a whole load of other factors which that person finds appealing, then the fact one factor is off is generally only ignored if the height of a partner is an essential element for sexual/physical attraction.


Which for many women it is. It is an actual preference of exclusivity where even the idea of being attracted to a short man is an alien thought, let alone an urge they have ever had.



Parsnip said:


> Isn't that the thing with most people though? If we think about life based around "chances" we realise nearly everyone has something which reduces their chances in comparison to what we hold to be an ideal and thinking about the fact that someone is considered disadvantaged because of a particular attribute does nothing but focus on that perceived disadvantage. A tall man may be deemed to have more chances than a short man, but this tall man may perceive himself as having fewer chances due to various other factors going on that perhaps the shorter individual overlooks because all they see is the fact he's tall, women in general like tall men, and therefore he must have more chances than shorter men to find a prospective partner (generally speaking). Yet this thread is full of women, some of whom are honest about their preferences for taller men and some of whom are honest about the fact height is a largely unimportant factor for them, which would indicate that in the big old world of preferences you of course have those that are more common than others (tall men, slim women, etc.) but you also have people who are going around, shrugging their shoulders wondering what all the fuss is about. Surely the issue is more that people concentrate on the perceived "lack of chances" they have as a shorter man, and that concentration can lead to a self fulfilling prophecy as they're constantly looking for something to confirm that their height is an issue?


The women on this forum don't represent typical women, though.

I'm not constantly looking for something to confirm my experiences, I'm literally sharing my actual experiences in the matter. Not an interpretation. Not a guess. Actual experiences that confirm the bias is pervasive and exclusionary.

Would you consider the men on SAS to represent how most men view the world?


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

VanGogh said:


> The women on this forum don't represent typical women, though.


And that right there is why I fail to understand why guys here keep asking what women want. Since we don't count as the type of women said guys are actually looking for. (Yes...this statement says, _guys here aren't interested in *us*_. Only in "normal" women.) You spent half this thread asking for clarification after clarification from female users here, all for this...? This total brushoff? We don't represent typical women? What was the point of all that then? :roll



VanGogh said:


> I'm not constantly looking for something to confirm my experiences, *I'm literally sharing my actual experiences in the matter. Not an interpretation. Not a guess. Actual experiences* that confirm the bias is pervasive and exclusionary.


So was the person you're replying to.



VanGogh said:


> Would you consider the men on SAS to represent how most men view the world?


According to your reasoning then the women here should just disregard anything the guys here say, because you guys aren't "typical" and don't represent real guys we'd be interested in. Therefore, all these generalizations and statements some SAS guys make about women don't count in the real world. Thank God.

...

I wasn't aware that having social anxiety makes a person *so abnormally and enormously different from regular human beings* that nothing an SA person says counts. :| The mere fact that we have SA rules out everything else about us? Okay...maybe if your SA is the entirety of your personality. Or if you're two-dimensional.


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