# Does anyone on here suffer from involuntary celibacy?



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

Do you think it's down to your SA?

For me I don't think it is, while SA obviously doesn't help it seems not one woman has ever shown interest in me anyway.

I can't imagine much changing once/if I beat SA.

There's a great support forum for IC here, it seems to be the only known one,

http://s15.invisionfree.com/IncelSupport/


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## mobile363 (Apr 11, 2004)

I think I suffer from it. Well, I don't so much suffer though. I've had SA during past relationships and almost all past relationships involved sex. My current relationship now does not have sex and me and my partner are open about this and understanding that neither of us has a desire to do it. She also understands and respects my SA and says that when and if we finally do have sex, it will will be good and comfortable. I am much more comfortable in a relationship now that sex isn't involved. 

Im obviously in support of involuntary celibacy. If you don't choose to live this sort of way, then I think you can look at it from the other side. If you find a girl whom you truly enjoy and vice versa without having to resort to sex, then she will love you for you. I think sex leads to problems early on in relationships because for many guys its the peak of the physical relationship with women. And because so many guys think in this way, women have a false preconception of most guys thinking that making out, fore-play, etc is going to lead to sex.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Sorry, what's "involuntary celibacy"? Is it the same thing as not being able to get laid?


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## workman (Mar 5, 2004)

I do, I had my chance once with a chichadee at a party, she was drunk and I was drunker. I ended up still ckickening out. Probably best since all the alcohol involoved. I'm trying tough. I'm trying.


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## deist78 (Nov 12, 2003)

I definitely suffer from involunatary celibacy. I' m 27 and am still a virgin. When you get to my age and am still a virgin, you pretty much even give up trying to have sex.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

LittleZion said:


> Sorry, what's "involuntary celibacy"? Is it the same thing as not being able to get laid?


Yes.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

Ross said:


> Do you think it's down to your SA?


Yes.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

deist78 said:


> you pretty much even give up trying to have sex.


Yes, no wait, no, HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


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## Prolix (Apr 16, 2006)

hmm, feel it's all pretty pessimistic. Sex is fantastic when your'e comfortable. Since it takes alot for us to be comfortable and our arousal levels are through the roof...it takes a soulmate or an oblivion via drinks. I'm hoping for the soulmate, to trust implicitly. Once we relax...aha..therein come's the joy no pun, but we need love, comfort, assurance.More than most maybe.


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## Lonelyguy (Nov 8, 2003)

I wouldn't say I suffer, I've just grown to accept it. I'm still a virgin at age 30, not by choice though. My anxiety around women is paralyzing and I've never been able to form any kind of relationship with the opposite sex despite the fact that I want to. It gets frustrating and depressing at times having sex constantly shoved in my face through TV, movies, advertisements, ect. because I'm only reminded of what I cannot achieve. I guess my outlook has changed though, after being this way for so long I've sort of accepted it will probably never happen and I'm trying to move past it. It bothered me alot in my 20's, but now I've tried to move beyond the frustration and accept it as a part of life.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Gumaro said:


> im convinced i now have arthritis on both hands


So THAT's how you developed those muscles.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

^ Ok, you win the internet...


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## Argo (May 1, 2005)

Lyric Suite said:


> ^ Ok, you win the internet...


Give him his prize!


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## FreeSoul (Jan 1, 2006)

Argo said:


> Lyric Suite said:
> 
> 
> > ^ Ok, you win the internet...
> ...


Hopefully it's a new set of hands. :b


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## Argo (May 1, 2005)

FreeSoul said:


> Argo said:
> 
> 
> > Lyric Suite said:
> ...


Hooks or claws?


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## FreeSoul (Jan 1, 2006)

Well... he might do with the hook if he's inventive.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

I'm celibate. Is it involuntary? I don't know. It's just the way I am. I'm not sure what to call myself.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

Yes, I suffer from this horrible condition. I suppose it's due to SA, although I can't imagine why someone would... uh copulate... with me anyway. Although some woman did "mmm" me one day at the DMV. It was scary.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

Had the chance a few times but chickened out. Do i want to have sex, yes. But i don't care as much now as when i was a teen.

If Adriana Lima can wait so can i


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## workman (Mar 5, 2004)

They just need to make a pill that kills a libido. That would solve the problems of about %50 of the people on the board.


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## pixiedust (Aug 11, 2005)

...


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## ott (Aug 2, 2005)

workman said:


> They just need to make a pill that kills a libido. That would solve the problems of about %50 of the people on the board.


I think that pill already exists. The treatment is called "chemical castration", which doesn't sound so tempting.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

I don't want to have my libido killed off, i want to have sex, preferably with somebody i'm love with who also loves me back. 

Apparently, that's too much to ask...


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

LittleZion said:


> Sorry, what's "involuntary celibacy"? Is it the same thing as not being able to get laid?


It's learned helplessness and Fundamental Attribution Error - in other words, a hocus pocus concept pulled out of a hat for already known psychological phenominon.

What that means, is an incel person blames outside circumstances and environments, while at the same time, having high standards, being too picky and too lazy, and then blaming external circumstances for their misfortunes.

There is nothing new or unique about that idea as people could have sex or relationships if they really want to.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Prolix said:


> hmm, feel it's all pretty pessimistic.


The incel board is one big pity party. I have been on it, and it doesn't look like many people are going to graduate on it. More negative influences are not healthy if you have SA, you need to think positive.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Zephyr said:


> I'm celibate. Is it involuntary? I don't know. It's just the way I am. I'm not sure what to call myself.


Smart.

No child support.
No AIDS, STD's.
No children.
No trouble.

Sometimes you have to see the glass as half full, rather than half empty.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Lyric Suite said:


> I don't want to have my libido killed off, i want to have sex, preferably with somebody i'm love with who also loves me back.
> 
> Apparently, that's too much to ask...


Dont just ask, do something about it.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

C3P0 said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, what's "involuntary celibacy"? Is it the same thing as not being able to get laid?
> ...


I believe involuntary celibacy is a real thing. It's a symptom anyway of some underlying problem or problems. There seems to be a lot more to it than just _wanting_ to have sexual relationships...you must be the owner of the requisite social skills. You have to be someone that the opposite sex is attracted to in some way. If you're not, then it's not going to happen. This has been brought up on the AVEN board lately and I've sort of taken up the cause of defending it, even though I don't categorize myself as incel. But I know what they're going through...I've been rejected by the same sex for friendships and the opposite sex for everything.


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## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

C3P0 said:


> What that means, is an incel person blames outside circumstances and environments


I agree with that. Basically, the word "involuntary" implies that we do not even have any control over our own lives. If you feel bad enough for being a virgin, than labeling yourself as an incel is the last thing you need! This label reeks of external locus of control, the belief that outside forces are in control of our lives and our own inner resources are useless. I think that we need to feel more empowered, rather than feel like we are the victims of a horrible affliction. We need to take a more autonomous stance; to believe in free will and that everyone has the cabability to change.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Zephyr said:


> I believe involuntary celibacy is a real thing.


It is not a recognised and therefore treatable psychological problem. Certainly, not one listed in any accredited text.



Zephyr said:


> It's a symptom anyway of some underlying problem or problems. There seems to be a lot more to it than just _wanting_ to have sexual relationships...you must be the owner of the requisite social skills.


Of course, that sounds like Social Anxiety, Social Phobia, and similar types of issues, and that's what it is called.



Zephyr said:


> You have to be someone that the opposite sex is attracted to in some way. If you're not, then it's not going to happen.


Of course. There are plenty of dating books or materials, or programs that go into more detail with that. You first want to really want to change your situation, and then you start taking action about it. However, I will contribute some good free advice here from the best of my knowledge:

For example, from what I've heard, by improving your posture, getting a tan, and putting on some fancy clothes can really make an impact with the ladies. I believe that is some good free advice. Posture influences presence, and by presence, I mean having a confident and commanding look wherever you are working that says 'I believe in myself, I am a confident man, you need to get to know me'. Indeed, that is what I'm working on. I'm also planning to go on regular walks.

Other than that, people have to work out their individual issues with people who are expert of knowing how to present themselves to look confident with women, and you would have to somehow consult with them about making a new look.

Women are not attracted by looks as much as how you are coming across and your tone of voice, and how you are treating them. But confidence itself is helped with an efficient appearance, and enhanced presence by good posture.

So, that's one explanation right there that I posted on that negative board, and guess who is the only person taking that advice seriously, just myself. To each their own.



Zephyr said:


> This has been brought up on the AVEN board lately and I've sort of taken up the cause of defending it, even though I don't categorize myself as incel. But I know what they're going through...I've been rejected by the same sex for friendships and the opposite sex for everything.


Well feel free to defend it here. I believe in dealing with problems and coming with a solution. I dont know what they believe. Like I said, to each their own.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I don't really know what it is. I thought it was just the inability to find a date or something. I can't think of involuntary celibacy as an "illness." I don't really see how it would be in and of itself. 
I agree that it probably does have a lot to do with learned helplessness. It is most likely the result of low self-esteem, anxiety, or some other personal issue. The elephant man couldn't get a date.. I'm sure that was probably involuntary. Improving his social skills and making him more outgoing probably would not have helped him very much. It was a result of his... elephantitus.
I didn't read a description of involuntary celibacy, because I think of it as basically not being able to find a mate. Sure, if I could lose my anxiety, learn social skills, and actually put myself in situations where I could meet someone, I may. I think of it as involuntary in the sense that I didn't _choose_ to have anxiety or poor social skills, I don't want to lack social relationships, and I don't want to be alone. I understand that there are steps to take to make the situation better, but they don't always work in every situation. If the treatment does work, it probably won't be absolutely immediate. If the person is trying hard to amend the situation with every approach imaginable but has seen no progress, then I think of it as involuntary.
I agree that we get a lot of reinforcement for avoiding meeting other people (not being rejected, mainly), but there are small steps that can be taken. Just making myself more approachable would probably help me.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

whiteclouds said:


> C3P0 said:
> 
> 
> > What that means, is an incel person blames outside circumstances and environments
> ...


So, being an "incel" means you want to have sex but aren't able to get someone to have sex with you? And there's a board devoted to discussion of this "condition"?

Reminds me of my high school astronomy club.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

> For example, from what I've heard, by improving your posture, getting a tan, and putting on some fancy clothes can really make an impact with the ladies. I believe that is some good free advice


Man, if having a tan and nice clothes is what attracts the girls, I'm sticking with my hand or going for aliens, animals, the air, or something. Don't worry, though, I have confidence without a lame *** tan or nice clothes. I'll stick with my Levi's jeans and plain black t-shirt, thank you very much!



> But confidence itself is helped with an efficient appearance, and enhanced presence by good posture.


No offense at all, but what's the deal with posture? You're making me all self-conscious about my posture! Now I'm worrying about my posture, holmes. Don't do that to me!


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

The quote means to just stand up straight and tall; don't slouch.

I had a tan, nice clothes ($300 linen suit), and I exercise and stand up straight.......
I was still crying in the city plaza for a half-hour! :cry


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## glenb44 (Apr 12, 2006)

*never up to bat*

its hard to get to any base when you never get a chance to bat. Anyone else never even get a reply to hello?


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

LittleZion said:


> whiteclouds said:
> 
> 
> > C3P0 said:
> ...


What's wrong with that though? Do you think never being able to have a sexual experience is something that shouldn't be taken seriously?


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## Argo (May 1, 2005)

Ross said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > whiteclouds said:
> ...


Maybe you're taking it too seriously. This reminds me of the South Park episode where Stan's dad goes to an AA meeting and gets convinced by the people there that his alcoholism is a "disease". He loses all motivation to change and instead gets worse, wallowing in self-pity and drinking even more than he ever did. He thinks there's now nothing he can do about it, since he has a "disease".

Part of me, for that reason, thinks this site itself is bad. Probably the most socially productive period of my life was 2003-04, when I really stretched my wings, got to know some people, and had some great encounters as well as some bad ones. In downtime after that, I went on the web and discovered some stuff about social anxiety, Asperger's, avoidant personality disorder, stuff like that. When I read the descriptions it was like someone had been looking over my shoulder and writing a report on me. It was that raw. I remember getting tears in my eyes reading some of it, since I saw described there, as part of the _template_ for God's sake, some of my most haunting and embarassing social screwups.

It was relief at first --- I'd spent too much time thinking I was alone --- but with hindsight I think it might have been a disaster to find out about it. I've never repeated the 2003-04 period. I've basically just ... plodded along. I've thought of myself since then as a person with Avoidant Personality Disorder, and though I didn't consciously decide to give up on forming real relationships, looking back at what I've done since then I have to figure that subconsciously I did. The template's in my mind now; I'm well aware that I act like a person with Avoidant Personality Disorder, and I think that somewhere inside me this knowledge subtly discourages me from not acting like one. You see, until I read that material I didn't think there was any good reason for me to act like how I did. I think differently now, and with that a lot of the shame went away, and with it volition to change.

I think you're hurting yourself with the way you think about your problem. _"Do you think never being able to have a sexual experience is something that shouldn't be taken seriously?"_ You don't know that you'll never be able to have sex, but you _think_ you do, and there lies the damage. And what is it you want to take seriously? Not the problem of how to have sex, not how to build a lasting relationship, but how you're just "never" going to have any of that. The way you phrase your question is completely nihilist, Ross. You're literally wanting to take seriously _nothing_, your conclusion that nothing will ever happen.

It's like a bunch of people who consider themselves damned to hell debating what they think the tortures there will be. What would be a more serious use of their time, arguing about which devil will be the meanest torturer or doing something to try to put them on the path to heaven in the first place?


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

You might be happy with spending the rest of your life never having any sexual experiences and relationships but most people aren't.

I believe I'm doomed for the rest of my life because I'm 30 and no woman has ever even shown any interest in me.

I thought that it could be possible for years and years, but look where that got me. 

It just ends up feeling like it will never happen, it's so hard to imagine it ever happening when you get to my age, never even experiencing a woman showing interest. It's a lot less painfull to just accept how things are.

The only thing I can think of doing is being able to beat my SA, get some independence and then try dating websites, but even then it's still hard to imagine being sucsessful. I know that I will hire an escort though, so at least I should be able to experience being with a woman. Unless even that can't happen for me for some reason.

And discovering that site and realising that I'm not alone has made me feel a lot better and has been good for me.


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## apprentice1 (Feb 9, 2005)

I don't think I am mature enough for a relationship. I don't think I could be responsible for another person as I do such a poor job of taking care of myself. I don't think that anyone could possibly be interested in me, that way, either. I am the guy that is just 'everybodys friend'. None of my friends expect me to find my own friend, I feel. I have a serious inferiority complex complete with a rationalized set of defenses built up to make sure it stays that way. My standards are too high. I don't like being with other people. I like being by myself...other people will just hurt me, I am better off without all that...bottom line? I stay alone and make the best out of it and that gets harder and harder.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Ross said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > So, being an "incel" means you want to have sex but aren't able to get someone to have sex with you? And there's a board devoted to discussion of this "condition"?
> ...


No, I suppose it's serious for those who are in that position, so I don't mean to make fun of you. Sorry if I'm being flip, I just think 1) calling it "involuntary celibacy" (or "incel") sounds a little silly, at least to my ears, and 2) you guys are probably building up sex to be more important and life-changing than it really is.

I remember how I built it up sex in my mind, before I actually had it. Truth is, having sex is not THAT big of a deal. It's a good thing, but it's not the be-all, end-all. If lack of sex is really such an issue in your life, you are fortunate in that there is a simple solution: hookers. Why don't you save your money and get it over with. I think you'll find that it's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. I also think Argo was right, that ascribing official-sounding labels to this "disorder" can just make you feel more pathological than you really are. We've got enough disorders already, let's not start labelling every life problem as some kind of mental syndrome. "Bad Hair Day Disorder" ....

Also, it's my hunch that the "incel" problem actually represents a difficulty with forming intimate relationships with women, not just an inability to get them in the sack. So I wonder if a lot of this energy is getting misdirected.


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

It is the be all and end all though if you never ever get to experience anything sexual with the gender you're attracted to. I'm sure air isn't that much of a big deal, but when you can never get any it sure will be.

Most people's main problem on the board is getting a relationship, and they could get a prostitute or pick up a drunk in a bar and have sex with them yet they don't want to do that, so I think Incel isn't really the right name for the board.

My main problem is everything, sex, relationships, attracting women. I would be willing to pick someone up in a bar and have a one night stand with them, but like I said, I fail to attract women. And I'm not able to go the prostitute route yet because of certain circumstances.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

LittleZion said:


> "Bad Hair Day Disorder" ....


Oh, so that's what I have. I knew there must be a name for it :lol



LittleZion said:


> Also, it's my hunch that the "incel" problem actually represents a difficulty with forming intimate relationships with women, not just an inability to get them in the sack.


Agreed.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> I didn't read a description of involuntary celibacy, because I think of it as basically not being able to find a mate.


As a matter of fact, that is what most people on the 'incel' board define it as. I think that a defination like that is a bit of a farce because most people are looking for that special person to have a relaitonship with and there is no special label about what is so common.



Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> Sure, if I could lose my anxiety, learn social skills, and actually put myself in situations where I could meet someone, I may. I think of it as involuntary in the sense that I didn't _choose_ to have anxiety or poor social skills, I don't want to lack social relationships, and I don't want to be alone.


Anxiety and poor social skills can be remedied. If you happen to meet the right person, it probably wouldn't matter that much anyway.



Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> I understand that there are steps to take to make the situation better, but they don't always work in every situation. If the treatment does work, it probably won't be absolutely immediate.


Doing something about it is voluntary, but the reality is, lots of people on the incel board are just plain lazy, have a comfort zone, and are just too negative. Involuntary in that sence has no meaning.



Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> If the person is trying hard to amend the situation with every approach imaginable but has seen no progress, then I think of it as involuntary.
> I agree that we get a lot of reinforcement for avoiding meeting other people (not being rejected, mainly), but there are small steps that can be taken. Just making myself more approachable would probably help me.


That's right. Social Anxiety, and the related aspects are something that can be helped. Thinking of yourself as an incel is simply too negative. We all need positive thoughts and positive infusions, not more negative labels.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

LittleZion said:


> whiteclouds said:
> 
> 
> > C3P0 said:
> ...


In theory yes. In practise, (i.e. incel board), that is total horse sh*t.

They are all looking for a relationship like anyone else.


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## Argo (May 1, 2005)

Ross said:


> You might be happy with spending the rest of your life never having any sexual experiences and relationships but most people aren't.


That wasn't what I was talking about.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

*Re: never up to bat*



glenb44 said:


> its hard to get to any base when you never get a chance to bat. Anyone else never even get a reply to hello?


If you say 'hi' to six attractive girl's a day, you are bound to get a reply if you dont quit. Try this for 30 days. Try 180 attempts in a month. You will probably get more than a reply if the chemistry is right.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Ross said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > whiteclouds said:
> ...


If you really want something badly enough, then you'll get it.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Ross said:


> And discovering that site and realising that I'm not alone has made me feel a lot better and has been good for me.


But it still has not dealt with the problem. If all you want is a new comfort zone and still have a problem, then sure, that board could offer that. However, if you actually want to deal with the problem, then you're going to have to do a bit more than just posting and reading posts about your luck with women if you know what I mean.


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

I'm already trying to deal with my SA, that's the first step. I think though, that reading when people have luck on the board can be inspiring and motivating.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Ross said:


> It [sex] is the be all and end all though if you never ever get to experience anything sexual with the gender you're attracted to. I'm sure air isn't that much of a big deal, but when you can never get any it sure will be.


See, that's what I mean -- your analogy shows what a big deal you're making out of sex. People can live happy lives without ever once having sex, but they die in five minutes without air. You're blowing it out of proportion.

"Certain circumstances" prevent you from getting a hooker? I'm not pushing the idea of visiting prostitutes, but it seems like a rather simple thing: save your money, then travel to a city where that kind of thing is available. What's the problem?


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

LittleZion said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > It [sex] is the be all and end all though if you never ever get to experience anything sexual with the gender you're attracted to. I'm sure air isn't that much of a big deal, but when you can never get any it sure will be.
> ...


I understand Ross' position because I was there a few years ago. You have to have an income in order to save money, and that means you need to have a job, and not everyone has a job, or any luck finding a job? Some people may send out 200 applications and no interview. Nobody is going to spend their last dollars, or deprive themselves of a few week's groceries to spend a half hour with an escort. Sometimes spending hundred or more dollars on something can really break the bank. And how will a person react if they got ripped off at that type of money?

There were times in the past, I was calculating how much it would cost me to spend my last dollars on some escort. I realised if I spent the money, it may have meant an insurance bill would have been defaulted, or other important expense would have been defaulted on. Sometimes there are expenses, and you cant afford to spend money like that. Even though I may physically have had the money, where I even contacted an escort, asked how much she was charging, and had the cash in my wallet, I would soon see that cash going in other essential expenses (of course getting some erotic high because the money at least temporarily had a symobolic value meaning I could get laid).

I have never followed through with going to an escort, but the point is, Ross is right, financial circumstances are the most obvious reason someone is barred from even using an escort.


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

There's also SA as well, and travelling miles and miles to a strange area that I'd probably get lost in.


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

LittleZion said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > It [sex] is the be all and end all though if you never ever get to experience anything sexual with the gender you're attracted to. I'm sure air isn't that much of a big deal, but when you can never get any it sure will be.
> ...


I think you're taking my analogy too literally. It's not just about the sex anyway, it's being close to a woman, the physical touch, the intamacy.

I think most people would feel unhappy in life if they had to live without that for the whole of their life, it would be something that they would end up longing for, something that they would have an overwhelming need for. That is completely normal and natural.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

I hear ya, finances can be tight, especially without a job, and spending money on a hooker would be foolish under those circumstances. Re. the analogy, I know you didn't mean it literally, but I thought your choice of analogy pointed to how (I think) you are blowing the sexual experience out of proportion. 

But as you say, it's not about the sex, it's about intimacy or closeness. This makes this discussion of "involuntary celibacy" confusing. As you and others have pointed out, "involuntary celibacy" is not about an involuntary lack of sex, nor is it really about sex at all (primarily).


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## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

It's definatley about the sex (with me anyway). I'm just saying that it's not _just_ about the sex.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

LittleZion said:


> Reminds me of my high school astronomy club.


in response to a definition of incel, was frickin hilarious :lol

I get a clearer picture of things by looking at analagous situations.

Look at some of the schlubs who have jobs. Makes you believe anyone can get a job, but I also know some people can't. The interview process, their inability to drive, their dread of working around people, hiding at lunch time, etc, keep them from succeeding. Add to that a poor work history and few marketable skills............

People who profess to want something and who can't get it aren't necessarily lazy. They may have self defeating attitudes, but who wakes up each morning consciosly intending to sabotage himself? Its more complicated than that.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

I could never get an escort. Why? SA. 

I mean, seriously, i can't even get an air cut without driving around the block for an hour trying to calm myself down, do you think i'm going to pick up the phone and make arrangements to pay for sex? Forget it...


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## living in darkness (Apr 17, 2005)

C3P0 said:


> If all you want is a new comfort zone and still have a problem, then sure, that board could offer that. However, if you actually want to deal with the problem, then you're going to have to do a bit more than just posting and reading posts about your luck with women if you know what I mean.


 :agree


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Re. hookers, it occurred to me that since they are "the oldest profession," perhaps involuntary celibacy is "the oldest disorder" ...


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I am involuntary celibate, although I agree that celibate isn't exactly the right word for it. I could live without sex - I'm curious about it, but I could live without it. However, getting to my age and not kissing a girl or experiencing anything with the opposite sex is frankly painful. I just want a girlfriend. 

I have had women interested in me, but my social anxiety stopped me from doing anything. So maybe involuntary isn't the proper word, either. I know what my problem is, I just have trouble dealing with it.


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## SaigeJones (Mar 17, 2008)

When people talk about escorts, why does no one ever talk about the loss of dignity and self-respect that can happen when you lay down with a woman like that? If I engaged in that kind of activity i don't think i could look at myself in the mirror


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## Beryl (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re:*



Ross said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > Ross said:
> ...


I think the analogy is 100% correct actually. Sex is at the bottom of Maslows hierarchy of needs right along side food and air. Sex is biologically necesary. Acutal intimacy is higher up on the pyramid.

I guess I am also involuntarily celibit. Or maybe its just a combination of SA and my appearance.


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## Skurplunk (Aug 25, 2008)

Sex is biologically necessary only if you want to pass on your genes but to actually live you don't need it. What you need and what you want are two different things.


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## Hot Chocolate (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm ok with not having sex. I am actually afraid of it. I felt that I am so unworthy to mate with someone, it's so painful for me to go through with it.


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## brealair (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm a involunarty celibate. There's actually a couple of websites devoted to just that issue.


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## Rmj798 (Sep 22, 2006)

*Involuntarily Celibate*



WintersTale said:


> I am involuntary celibate, although I agree that celibate isn't exactly the right word for it. I could live without sex - I'm curious about it, but I could live without it. However, getting to my age and not kissing a girl or experiencing anything with the opposite sex is frankly painful. I just want a girlfriend.
> 
> I have had women interested in me, but my social anxiety stopped me from doing anything. So maybe involuntary isn't the proper word, either. I know what my problem is, I just have trouble dealing with it.


I don't really post on this site (I am usually too timid and feel as if everyone on here already knows each other), but this quote really made me think of myself (except I'm a girl and would like a boyfriend, not a girlfriend . I have always been involuntarily celibate. I guess I could live without ever being intimate with a guy, but it is painful and lonely. I will be 23 next week, and 24 the year after, and so on, and I can't see myself ever being in a relationship. Guys have been interested in me in the past, but I have always been too afraid to give in, wondering how they could possibly be attracted to me. I'm almost beginning to wish we had arranged marriages in the Western World so that we wouldn't have to deal with these issues (though with my luck, I'd be married off to a horrid old man). It all seems just so unfair, but I am starting to become resigned to my fate.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

"involuntary celibacy" ....LOL!!!! -Has to be the funniest thread title I've ever read!

Like: hell Yeah!! ..sort of like :- do I suffer from involuntary social anxiety?! ...'course!!
-like I'm not bored out of my mind socializing on-line on a Friday night!! ...like I wouldn't much rather be with people instead!?!!

...consequently, I am up to my 8th Vodka Cruiser! And my only regret for the night is that I didn't by proper hard liquor.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Skurplunk said:


> Sex is biologically necessary only if you want to pass on your genes but to actually live you don't need it. What you need and what you want are two different things.


I don't think that it's just to pass on genes or, likewise, just to procreate.

I may not need sex, but I tell you what: I'm close to needing it. And I can't be bothered pretending otherwise, just cos I'm female or because it's "innappropriate" to say so.

I think it's prefectly normal for some to "need" it to some extent. Just like people "need" close and intimate relationships. And in fact, for me, it would go hand-in-hand with intimacy. ...in fact, it's intimacy that is my problem. Sex wouldn't be a problem. I reckon I'd be a natural.


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## bk (May 2, 2004)

I am celibate, but I'm not sure whether I would call it involuntary. I never really try to meet women (or anyone for that matter) and if it appeared that someone was flirting with me I would probable run away. The couple of isolated times I ever asked a girl out was years ago. I'm extremely inexperienced with relationships and I just don't have the confidence to put myself out there. Absolutely I would love to have sex or be in a relationship, but if I don't put any effort into making it happen obviously it may never happen.



> I'm almost beginning to wish we had arranged marriages in the Western World so that we wouldn't have to deal with these issues


A caucasian girl at my office travelled to India to get an arranged marriage. I have no idea what would compel someone to do something like that.


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## saillias (Oct 5, 2008)

bk said:


> A caucasian girl at my office travelled to India to get an arranged marriage. I have no idea what would compel someone to do something like that.


My bad.


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## Rmj798 (Sep 22, 2006)

bk said:


> I am celibate, but I'm not sure whether I would call it involuntary. I never really try to meet women (or anyone for that matter) and if it appeared that someone was flirting with me I would probable run away. The couple of isolated times I ever asked a girl out was years ago. I'm extremely inexperienced with relationships and I just don't have the confidence to put myself out there. Absolutely I would love to have sex or be in a relationship, but if I don't put any effort into making it happen obviously it may never happen.
> 
> A caucasian girl at my office travelled to India to get an arranged marriage. I have no idea what would compel someone to do something like that.


I do, and it may come to that for me. At least it's better than paying for the male escort services about which they were talking on another thread. Oh well, maybe I still have time. Anyway, I'm not desperate enough for either yet


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

brealair said:


> I'm a involunarty celibate. There's actually a couple of websites devoted to just that issue.


I downloaded a free e-book, but I'll probably start crying if I read it.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

Eh...yes! 'Involuntary celibacy', that's a great way to put it! :lol


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

But, it's nice to know we're not alone in this [email protected]! :lol


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## brealair (Aug 31, 2008)

millenniumman75 said:


> I downloaded a free e-book, but I'll probably start crying if I read it.


Is the book called "Love and Shyness" by Dr. Gilmartin


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## VCL XI (Jan 19, 2004)

brealair said:


> Is the book called "Love and Shyness" by Dr. Gilmartin


Wow, just the chapter titles read like my autobiography:

_The "Left Out" Syndrome 
Every Group Needs a Deviant
Summer Camps as Torture Prisons 
Unemployment and Underemployment 
Difficulties Concentrating
Being Misperceived as Homosexual
Parental Overprotectiveness
Weight Problems
Masturbation
Staring and Following
Temper and Rage
Insomnia
Hyperperspiration
Gas_

and so on...


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## brealair (Aug 31, 2008)

VCL XI said:


> Wow, just the chapter titles read like my autobiography:
> 
> _The "Left Out" Syndrome _
> _Every Group Needs a Deviant_
> ...


I feel your pain. When I 1st read the book, it felt like Gilamrtin was following me around all my life with a hidden camera or something


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

VCL XI said:


> Wow, just the chapter titles read like my autobiography:
> 
> _The "Left Out" Syndrome
> Every Group Needs a Deviant
> ...


One word- Beano. You don't need a whole chapter! :lol


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Yes, it is Dr. Gilmartin.


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## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

I guess, but then again it doesn't bother me as much. Still I do partly blame my SA.



VCL XI said:


> Wow, just the chapter titles read like my autobiography:
> 
> _The "Left Out" Syndrome
> Every Group Needs a Deviant
> ...


Most of that applies to me too :sigh


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## VCL XI (Jan 19, 2004)

Phoebus said:


> One word- Beano. You don't need a whole chapter! :lol


Haha, I guess you're right, this is the entire section:

_Love-shy men do not appear to be anymore prone to gas problems than the non-shy. In fact, not one member of either the love-shy or the non-shy samples indicated either "chronic gas" or "frequent need to fart" as representing any kind of a noteworthy problem._

I'm only a gastrointestinal disaster in intense social situations though.


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## SaigeJones (Mar 17, 2008)

VCL XI said:


> Wow, just the chapter titles read like my autobiography:
> 
> _The "Left Out" Syndrome
> Every Group Needs a Deviant
> ...


WOW lol thats me.

Embarrassing


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## dax (Nov 19, 2004)

*raises hand*

I haven't had sex in 4 years. Last time I hooked up was almost 2 years ago.


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