# Using marijuana for sleep



## Lostsoul26 (Oct 24, 2008)

...


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

I can't. Sometimes I get paranoid, and obviously it's hard to sleep when you think the cops are waiting just outside your bedroom. But lots of people seem to find it very effective.


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

I don't have access to pot but I need alcohol to sleep. I've tried over the counter sleeping pills and they work but not as well so if my mind is too preoccupied that my body doesn't want to sleep then they're useless. I'm kind of worried about damage though. I'm sorry that's not quite what you asked but it's the same kind of needing to be intoxicated. A guy I know got insomnia after quitting weed so... it kind of makes sense to me. I think it's maybe a fear or inability to be alone with your thoughts. (that's just me I dunno about you lol)


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

switch to melatonin or something. weed is a bad option. stay away from the sedatives. and sometimes the antihistamines are good, but those are kinda bad news too. those are probably what you gained tolerance to. 
try melatonin, its at walmart or any place that has a supplement section usually.


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## Lostsoul26 (Oct 24, 2008)

stealyourface722 said:


> weed is a bad ...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

If it has any negative impact on your SA then dont do it, Id moniter yourself for any increase in anxiety after doing this for a while. (or the best option would be to use it half the week and the other days the benzo's).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Delicate said:


> I don't have access to pot but I need alcohol to sleep. I've tried over the counter sleeping pills and they work but not as well so if my mind is too preoccupied that my body doesn't want to sleep then they're useless. I'm kind of worried about damage though. I'm sorry that's not quite what you asked but it's the same kind of needing to be intoxicated. A guy I know got insomnia after quitting weed so... it kind of makes sense to me. I think it's maybe a fear or inability to be alone with your thoughts. (that's just me I dunno about you lol)


Id stop drinking the alcohol immediatly and try to get benzo's, alcohol is the worst thing you can ever take for sleep.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes, benzos should give you similar sedation and anxiolysis without destroying your liver. I have a LOT of alcoholics in my family, and cirrhosis isn't something you want to deal with...

As for weed, I can't sleep on it. At best, I can wait for the burn-out which will help me sleep, but being high isn't a pleasant experience for me. The anxiety, paranoia, and self-consciousness/self-resentment that it puts me through are extremely overwhelming. I've found an acceptable use for it in pain management, when enduring the pain isn't exactly preferable even to all that, but only in a pinch, as I usually have better options available. Trying to sleep on it though is absolutely impossible for me, even on really heavy indicas. 

Interestingly, I was offered a cannabinoid called Cesamet for pain not too long ago, but as it's a lot like THC, I had to turn it down in favor of pretty much anything else. Some people think I'm crazy for doing that! I think CBD (as opposed to THC), shows a lot of promise though and would gladly give it a shot if it were available.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

If i could get my hands on it legally, I'd use it. and have no qualms about it. the particular strains make a difference too. If I slept well after using it, I'd smoke it every night.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> Ive been using pot to cure my insomnia and i find it works very well. I smoke a small amount before i go to bed each night. I used to take sleeping pills but they made me feel tired in the morning and i would build up a tolerance.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this? Does anyone else use pot for sleep?


I found weed very effective for insomnia (using a small amount avoids next-day burnout), but unfortunately most street weed I can get is predominantly sativa, the type I hate. For insomnia, you want some indica weed, like Kush, Afghani, Northern Lights, etc.. It's relaxing and sedative, lacking in paranoia and anxiety.



> weed is a bad option.


I too would like to know why it's a bad option. There's a ton of science supporting various medical applications of cannabis, and there are even people getting it prescribed legally. I would much prefer to smoke a bit of weed to sleep than take benzodiazepine derivative sleeping pills. But yeah melatonin is definitely also a good option.


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## lde22 (Oct 19, 2009)

In California insomnia is one of the ailments that doctors are allowed to prescribe medical marijuana so it must be good for sleep. But stick with mostly indicas. If you smoke a pure sativa you will be up all night.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

euphoria said:


> I too would like to know why it's a bad option. There's a ton of science supporting various medical applications of cannabis, and there are even people getting it prescribed legally. I would much prefer to smoke a bit of weed to sleep than take benzodiazepine derivative sleeping pills. But yeah melatonin is definitely also a good option.


Yeah, that's a load of BS. If weed works actually works for your insomnia, that's way better than pretty much any pharmaceutical option available. In my own experience, it's really hard for me to understand how it helps ANYBODY sleep, but I accept that, and I know many people are just as bewildered about the effects it has on people like me.

The only thing is, for the sake of your lungs, eating it is a much healthier option, although I've found it takes like 2 hours to properly kick in, which might not be acceptable for a sleeping aid in most situations. At the very least, get a quality vaporizer, especially if you're going to be using it on a daily basis.


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Id stop drinking the alcohol immediatly and try to get benzo's, alcohol is the worst thing you can ever take for sleep.


 Yeah I know it's so stupid, I'm trying to stop drinking if it's just to aid sleep. So the times when I can't not do it I cut down at least. I have only ever heard on benzos on here... I told my doctor about sleep problems and he wanted me to try to deal without pills and see if my anti depressants helped to stabalise it, stopped taking them though.

Sorry for the slight hijack by mentioning alcohol. Weed seems to be healthier anyway. Maybe you could at least give the other options a go? I looked up "melatonin" and it seems quite easy to get... 
is this actually a sleep aid?


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## cakesniffer (Nov 11, 2003)

To each his own! Pot doesn't make me sleepy, so it wouldn't be a good choice for me. I had some last week, and I was convinced I was dying. Like, seriously convinced. Wine works better for me in the sleep department! :lol

And I've tried melatonin and it works pretty well, except it makes me super groggy in the morning. So, not a good choice for me either.

And FYI, a doctor in California will give you a "prescription" for weed for almost anything.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Delicate said:


> Yeah I know it's so stupid, I'm trying to stop drinking if it's just to aid sleep. So the times when I can't not do it I cut down at least. I have only ever heard on benzos on here... I told my doctor about sleep problems and he wanted me to try to deal without pills and see if my anti depressants helped to stabalise it, stopped taking them though.


Honestly, be honest and tell your doctor that you're slowly destroying your liver. Alcohol works mostly in the same way as benzos, as well as in a few other ways, so the dependence risk over time is not just equal, it will be more severe. But at least benzos won't make you wind up with liver failure. Any responsible doctor should realize easily that there's no benefit to keeping you drinking...


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

^thanks for your advice... I've been taking herbal sleeping pills a couple of days and they helped so I'm gonna try that for, say, a week and see how it goes. (I'm scared to go back to my doctor right now) But if herbal pills work... not as knocked out as drink but... work. At least that's healthier . I either don't care at all or care too much lol.


Sheri said:


> To each his own! Pot doesn't make me sleepy, so it wouldn't be a good choice for me. I had some last week, and I was convinced I was dying. Like, seriously convinced. Wine works better for me in the sleep department! :lol
> 
> And I've tried melatonin and it works pretty well, except it makes me super groggy in the morning. So, not a good choice for me either.
> 
> And FYI, a doctor in California will give you a "prescription" for weed for almost anything.


 lol wine knocks me out!! I cant drink it if I'm out because I get so sleepy. Not even drunk just knocked out.


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## thelonelyloner (Apr 24, 2009)

Sheri said:


> To each his own! Pot doesn't make me sleepy, so it wouldn't be a good choice for me. I had some last week, and I was convinced I was dying. Like, seriously convinced. ! :lol


Im sorry but you saying you thought you were dying reminded me of this.






And if anyone wants a FREE method for sleep that I have found works great try http://www.emofree.com/. If you have never heard of EFT I suggest you learn it. You can download the manual for free, and if you need help I can get you some more stuff about EFT.

I have never tried weed. I am scared, mainly because I am afraid that if I do then Ill use it as a coping method for anxiety. This is just my personal opinion but if you use chronic for anxiety then you aren't facing the issue of anxiety at hand. You have to attack it with positive alternatives then using weed. Of course, this is just my opinion and you don't have to take it to heart.


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## TiMeZuP (Sep 30, 2009)

I've been a chronic Insomniac for years and have been taking sleep aids every night for the past 6 years. I am at the point that I have been taking HIGH doses of several different types of benzo's for sleep and downing 8-10 shots of vodka, just so I could sleep because of tolerance I've built. 

I've been smoking now every night as a sleep aid combined with a benzo type of sleep aid. My benzo use has drastically reduced because of it. 

As Euphoria said, you need to find the right strain to be effective. I have had many street strains that just made me feel robotic, edgy, and high levels of anxiety. The weed I've been smoking lately have been a huge benefit for me at least.


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## UndercoverAlien (Dec 29, 2009)

most weed doesn't get me tired, and i have trouble going to sleep high unless im exhausted. Usually if i smoke a lot more than normal, I feel more tired tho. I would advise melatonin, friend of mine confirmed that it was legit and worked well for sleep schedules and stuff. Im on ambien/weed as im typin this and the screen is wavy its awesome, that is certainly a cool combo, maybe good for SA? who knowss haha


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

meyaj said:


> Yeah, that's a load of BS. If weed works actually works for your insomnia, that's way better than pretty much any pharmaceutical option available. In my own experience, it's really hard for me to understand how it helps ANYBODY sleep, but I accept that, and I know many people are just as bewildered about the effects it has on people like me.


I know what you mean, I can only really handle weed while on SSRIs due to the anxiety. With anxiety controlled, it's a totally different experience, and really effective for sleep in my case.



> The only thing is, for the sake of your lungs, eating it is a much healthier option, although I've found it takes like 2 hours to properly kick in, which might not be acceptable for a sleeping aid in most situations. At the very least, get a quality vaporizer, especially if you're going to be using it on a daily basis.


Yeah, I have a Volcano .



TiMeZuP said:


> I've been a chronic Insomniac for years and have been taking sleep aids every night for the past 6 years. I am at the point that I have been taking HIGH doses of several different types of benzo's for sleep and downing 8-10 shots of vodka, just so I could sleep because of tolerance I've built.


Wow... How is your liver coping with that? Can't you replace the alcohol with even higher doses of benzos? I'd at least take a decent dose of N-acetyl-cysteine daily for liver protection. Have you tried mirtazapine for insomnia?



UndercoverAlien said:


> Im on ambien/weed as im typin this and the screen is wavy its awesome, that is certainly a cool combo, maybe good for SA? who knowss haha


lol.


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## deeds14 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lostsoul26 said:


> Ive been using pot to cure my insomnia and i find it works very well. I smoke a small amount before i go to bed each night. I used to take sleeping pills but they made me feel tired in the morning and i would build up a tolerance.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this? Does anyone else use pot for sleep?


My thoughts are that you're self-medicating. It's not actually solving the problem as to why you have insomnia. It's a band-aid.


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

If it works, you have the self control to not go overboard, and you aren't having side effects then great. Keep doing it. I may join you some day.

Doctors can rarely solve the cause of insomnia unless there is something physical like a breathing disorder. A sleep study should be done to rule out apnea and other problems but overall I can tell you from experience they don't help most sleep disorders. Doctors can only treat primary insomnia by tossing meds at you and seeing if they work. They try to claim all insomnia not caused by pain, apnea or another physical cause is caused by a psychiatric one like depression and anxiety but that's not always true. Some antidepressents do help with sleep. Namely the tricyclics. Doctors really don't understand the brain well enough to treat insomnia that isn't a secondary disorder even after they have a recording of what the brain does from a sleep study. 

Benzos can help you fall asleep but are as bad for quality of sleep as alcohol. Really small amounts of alcohol and small amounts of benzos are equally helpful and harmful. In fact small amounts of alcohol may be more beneficial to your health than small amounts of benzos. When we start talking large amounts then we swing the other way and alcohol is damaging but large amounts of benzos is not helpful either. They block deep sleep and get you stuck in stage 1 or maybe stage 2 sleep where you are unaware of your surroundings but your brain gets no rest and you feel exhausted the next day. 

Marijuana and small (I mean less than a glass of wine small) amounts of alcohol are probably better long term for sleep than the benzos and benzo related sleep aids (z-drugs) like ambien. The latter will not work long, will require constant dose increases, and have the same potential for abuse and dependence as well as rebound insomnia and other side effects. They have no benefits over self medication. 

Using methods without medication and approved prescription sleep aids as needed all sounds good and the best way to treat insomnia when you've never dealt with it as a main symptom. Having been down that road many many times though I am sick of hearing about sleep hygiene, cbt, imagery, relaxation techniques... and the z-drugs and benzos for sleep is not an experiment I'd ever like to run again. Honestly I'd use alcohol over benzos for falling asleep (useless for staying asleep) if it weren't for the fact I can't stand the taste of anything with the slightest alcohol in it. I've joked with my husband about them just putting alcohol in a pill. They do have red grape extract to get the benefits of red wine without the alcohol. Instead I stick with very short acting benzos with some muscle relaxant properties like lorazepam and then use other things that have a better impact on deep sleep like lyrica or neurontin, valerian root (much greater effects than melatonin for most), and tricyclics. I'm trying to avoid ending up another antipsychotic. 

If the tricyclics or antipsychotics fail then I'll be looking into both legal and illegal drugs as well. I've got 3 neurologists with 2 being sleep specialists, a psychiatrist, and 2 general practitioners looking in to my insomnia and they can't do anything. I've been suggesting meds to try and tests to run because they have no ideas. Self medicating with marijauna really wouldn't put me in much different situation or under any more risk than I am now. There are entire forums of people with insomnia from unknown causes that aren't getting any better treatment. They are actually worthless forums to hang out on because everyone's doctor is out of ideas and they lack enough pharmacological knowledge to help themselves or anyone else.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Akane said:


> I've joked with my husband about them just putting alcohol in a pill.


GHB kind of fits that profile, heh. It's been used for insomnia but my experience was that it required multiple doses throughout the night due to rebound. Phenibut and baclofen are somewhat similar.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

A band-aid solution is usually needed in the treatment of insomnia. And I'm talking about instances where it IS possible to treat the underlying cause, especially if it's psychological. How do you expect anybody to get properly treated and get their **** together when they're constantly sleep deprived? It's totally unreasonable to expect this. It's generally only practical to really tackle the cause of sleep issues AFTER you've got everything else under control.



Akane said:


> They block deep sleep and get you stuck in stage 1 or maybe stage 2 sleep where you are unaware of your surroundings but your brain gets no rest and you feel exhausted the next day.


My sleep specialist told me that benzos have an almost negligible effect on REM sleep, and that antidepressants have SIGNIFICANTLY more impact. I was under the impression that benzos were worse in this regard, but just about all the evidence I've looked for after hearing this corroborates it. My own experience agrees with this well. MAOIs in particular are known to almost completely obliterate that stage of sleep.

And in my particular case, that's actually a good thing. My REM sleep seems to be overly active otherwise. I'm plagued by very intense dreams and nightmares, often waking me up, but exhausting the hell out of me either way. I also was experiencing sleep paralysis on an almost nightly basis. Even with that kind of familiarity, it never became less terrifying for me (probably because I always desperately need to be in control), and again, it exhausted the hell out of me.

These days on Parnate, I don't really dream at all. I did on one particular night, but for all I know I forgot to take it that day and was experiencing rebound symptoms. But otherwise, no dreams, no nightmares, and no sleep paralysis. I'm pretty sure this would indicate very little to no REM sleep at all, which is expected with MAOIs anyways. And contrary to what I often hear about REM sleep, it hasn't had a negative impact on my memory, energy, cognitive abilities, or anything else. I feel much better rested than I used to. Granted, not as great in the morning as I felt on nortriptyline, but much better than my baseline. Certainly far from feeling like a zombie.

But even before then, z-drugs and SOME benzos made me feel more rested in the morning too. The only exception is long-acting ones like clonazepam and diazepam. Because really, that's the main cause of people feeling groggy on benzos/z-drugs, when the drug they're on has a duration that exceeds the amount of sleep they're getting. Not because of any REM-killing qualities. On the other hand, ANY drug with any sort of significant antihistamine effects makes me feel like crap in the morning (diphenhydramine, hydroxyzine, quetiapine, olanzapine, mirtazapine, etc.)


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## mike8803 (Feb 21, 2010)

When you smoke marijuana, you do not dream. I smoked heavily for years, and never dreamt, until I was on SSRI's.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

I'll simply say that melatonin does work well for this purpose.

I'm not knocking the weed but unless you're in one of the places where it's legal for medicinal purposes, it could cause more trouble for you than it's worth if all you're using it for is sleep. Especially if melatonin works as well for you as it does for me.


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## TiMeZuP (Sep 30, 2009)

^ melotonin only helps people with certain types of insomnia. For me melotonin may relax the body but it doesnt turn off my mind so I can sleep. 

Weed/Benzos/Z drugs/ and booze essentially confuses my brains' constant state of internal thinking, so I can sleep.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm surprised to hear some people say melatonin works so well. The only reason I know it does anything is that it gives me hyper-realistic and often disturbing dreams. Sometimes I was even aware of stuff going on (like rain against my window) while in the middle of sleep.

This was with high dose melatonin+high dose valerian though. And even that combination didn't help the slightest bit in terms of inducing sleep. I can't help but wonder if it truly knocks people out like they say it does, or if its merely placebo, because my own experience strongly contradicts this.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

TiMeZuP said:


> ^ melotonin only helps people with certain types of insomnia. For me melotonin may relax the body but it doesnt turn off my mind so I can sleep.
> 
> *Weed/Benzos/Z drugs/ and booze essentially confuses my brains' constant state of internal thinking, so I can sleep.*


well then you obviously suffer from substance abuse problems. And everyone who abuses substances has a underlying cause. Be it bipolar, depression, anxiety. And all of those can cause chronic insomnia. And ill laugh when i see your response saying "i dont abuse drugs" and blah blah blah. So much denial on this forum.


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## TiMeZuP (Sep 30, 2009)

Call it what you will. Most disorders have an underlining cause; the problem is we never treat the actual causes rather then mask the symptoms of the disorder. You can suggest that I have an "substance abuse" problem if you will. Without really knowing me, your casting rather large stones. Regardless, I didn't take your comment as negative towards me.



stealyourface722 said:


> well then you obviously suffer from substance abuse problems. And everyone who abuses substances has a underlying cause. Be it bipolar, depression, anxiety. And all of those can cause chronic insomnia. And ill laugh when i see your response saying "i dont abuse drugs" and blah blah blah. So much denial on this forum.


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## karoloydi (Feb 18, 2010)

Weed makes me even more introverted. And I always feel like I cant breath when I am taking it. Which leads to me having panick atacks because I think I am gonna die from lack of oxygen.
It also doesnt do much for me to sleep. I relax a lot, but I cant sleep. I just lay in bed in a half-asleep state.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

stealyourface722 said:


> well then you obviously suffer from substance abuse problems. And everyone who abuses substances has a underlying cause. Be it bipolar, depression, anxiety. And all of those can cause chronic insomnia. And ill laugh when i see your response saying "i dont abuse drugs" and blah blah blah. So much denial on this forum.


There is a difference between drug use and drug abuse. Not all self-medication falls into the latter category, but some does for sure.


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## shazzaTPM (Oct 29, 2008)

Yeah, weed actually makes me think a lot - either creativity or far more paranoid - rather than sleep. Guess it depends on the strain, indica vs sativa etc. Although weed made me more aware of the depths of my subconscious and I've worked some stuff out thanks to weed, it makes me too paranoid now and I usually have a few months break in between a week usage or something. The only two panic attacks I've had were on it.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

stealyourface722 said:


> well then you obviously suffer from substance abuse problems. And everyone who abuses substances has a underlying cause. Be it bipolar, depression, anxiety. And all of those can cause chronic insomnia. And ill laugh when i see your response saying "i dont abuse drugs" and blah blah blah. So much denial on this forum.


That is unbelievably presumptuous. While I don't really agree with his use of the word "confuses", this is how sleeping medications work. Anxious people like us tend to have a VERY active inner dialogue and it can be unbelievably difficult to shut it off. Anxiolytics/tranquilizers like benzos and z-drugs help your mind (and often your body, too) to relax.

Despite some fairly common mis-perceptions, they are not knock-out pills at all, they are in general very gentle drugs when used in therapeutic doses. Many allergy medications will have you way more sedated but when you're severely anxious 24/7, they don't really do the job they need to do, and that overwhelming feeling can often cause even more anxiety. In fact, the GABA-ergic sleep meds often don't make you feel very tired at all, but your mind is so at rest that you can often fall asleep in a matter of minutes rather than in a matter of hours like it is for many of us.

Quit being such a judgmental, holier-than-thou prick. You've been a member of this website for almost 2 years now, so clearly you're no better than anyone else here. EVERY psychiatrist I've met with understands that sleep is so important that it needs to be treated IMMEDIATELY, because if you leave a person sleep-deprived, they're not going to be able to deal with any of the underlying issues appropriately. I don't know if you've ever had really bad, chronic insomnia, but it gets to a point where even the most mundane chores become an impossible task. You become almost completely non-functional, barely able to take care of yourself, and depression can (and usually will) significantly worsen as a result, meaning that even if there obviously is an underlying cause, the afflicted person is in no position to tackle it effectively until they can at the very least get their sleep back in order.

I think booze is a terrible choice to manage sleep, but I can still see what he's saying because tranquilizers work on similar receptors. If your experience is only with alcohol then you can't just extrapolate what everything else might feel like because alcohol works on a bunch of other receptors that GABA-ergic sleep aids do not. He may be a drug abuser, he may not be. I don't understand why you have to come onto this board and act like you're better than him just because you assume that he DOES abuse drugs. EVERYBODY on this board has their issues, and for you to be here so long obviously implies that you do too. And yet, we encounter a surprisingly very small amount of brats like you who get off on trying to make others feel smaller.

Substance abuse DOES usually come from underlying issues and people struggling with it can still be absolutely amazing people. Something like that doesn't automatically change their character. But you've done more than enough to show your true character and it's absolutely vile. At least substance abusers can get help with a reasonable expectation of recovery if they work at it - but you, my friend, are clearly way beyond the possibility of ever getting any better.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I agree, stealyourface722 has been pushing a lot of judgemental personal opinions rather than participating in an open minded discussion. As said before, in his profile it says 


Turn Offs:
judgemental, mean, mocking,


And I believe all three of those criteria were met in the post above. Let's not turn this into a flame war, but please stealyourface722, try to be open minded here and present your views in a civil way.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

good. I dont really care what people think of me on the internet, I use the internet when I'm bored. And when Im bored Im usually isolating. And when Im isolating Im usually in the depths of my illness and psychological problems. And when im in my illness Im mad sometimes. So you guys can see what you want to see. I honestly would rather not care at all what people think of me that participate in a forum. I dont know you and I never will and you wont know me. So why cant I put my opinions out there. Im obviously making you guys more interested because you are talking about me. 
And you guys are putting your opinions out there about me. The posters above me is saying "your so judgmental" and blah blah blah. But he's saying about how I'm so ignorant to other people (idk if he said that but that's the basis of what hes saying) and preposterous. And bashing me about how I bash other people. 
I read most of what he said/typed. He has some good points and I will put them to use. 
But anyway I'm not going to type anymore because I think I will get an infraction. 
Since I am recovering I don't really think I fit into this forum anymore. In my opinion SO MANY people on the medication forum are addicts/messed up/feins craving addictive drugs and dangerous combos to fix their problems. And for right now I don't like addicts influencing everyone on the Medication forum. It just makes me angry that people believe your guys stuff. its poisonous in my opinion.
But im am really open minded so say what you want to say about me. I will read it and if its true to me then I will not be afraid to change for the better.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

I don't know why I keep posting. I think I am just really angry and taking it out on the forum. But I'm not ashamed of that, my life has been shi**y and hard. My dad is an AHOLE. And I am finally beginning to stop hating my dad, and now I think my anger has shifted to other things maybe. 
So just be patient with me for now, Ill eventually not be angry
but i am glad in a way because I am am showing my true colors (as of right now) and I am more confident.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

stealyourface722 said:


> I don't know why I keep posting. I think I am just really angry and taking it out on the forum. But I'm not ashamed of that, my life has been shi**y and hard. My dad is an AHOLE. And I am finally beginning to stop hating my dad, and now I think my anger has shifted to other things maybe.
> So just be patient with me for now, Ill eventually not be angry


Its allright man, i can understand now...

About the off label treatments that some are trying, i think that discussions here should be open because SA is something very hard to fix, there's no harm done in alowing ppl discuss that kind of stuff, posting experiences etc.

Those that dont know what they are doing usually arent very interesting in that off label stuff and certainly wont order it, but there are many ppl that havent found a treatment for years and are interesting in trying new things, no problems with that.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

stealyourface722 said:


> In my opinion SO MANY people on the medication forum are addicts/messed up/feins craving addictive drugs and dangerous combos to fix their problems. And for right now I don't like addicts influencing everyone on the Medication forum. It just makes me angry that people believe your guys stuff. its poisonous in my opinion.


Drug use can be dangerous, but for some people SA is impossible to overcome with psychology alone. There are a lot of associations being made between genes and mental disorders. Yes doctors/psychs prescribe meds, but many are proven to be barely more effective than placebo. So some people take matters into their own hands, until the pharm industry sorts its game out - there are some interesting drugs in development.

I totally understand where you're coming from, and for a period I thought the same, but after numerous failed med trials and failed therapy, it does make you question whether the risks of self-medication are worth the benefits. Untreated SA and other disorders can be hellish. I understand your anger with the pro-experimentation attitude of some of us, but I (and others) have notes in our signatures pointing out the very real risks. It would be denial to say there isn't also some discussion of recreational drug use here, and there probably shouldn't be on a therapeutic medication-based forum, but drug use is inevitable in society and people should be informed about the facts - especially risks. Any discussion of such should have emphasis on harm reduction.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

yea man.. Seriously though. my anger is just projecting (projection) to this forum and the people on it. You guys remind me of people that have hurt me in my life so I think Ive created alot of hate towards people like you. (you dont deserve it). My brothers and my dad all use drugs and they have been really bad to me in the past and the present right now. And now that im recovering from my addiction (used to be bad substance abuse, then my real addiction the whole time was an eating disorder, ashamed of my body, always running away from the feelings of how disgusted i feel with my body, even though Im not fat at all and I actually look pretty good), 
I dont know i will figure it out and puzzle it all together soon


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

stealyourface722 said:


> yea man.. Seriously though. my anger is just projecting (projection) to this forum and the people on it. You guys remind me of people that have hurt me in my life so I think Ive created alot of hate towards people like you. (you dont deserve it). My brothers and my dad all use drugs and they have been really bad to me in the past and the present right now. And now that im recovering from my addiction (used to be bad substance abuse, then my real addiction the whole time was an eating disorder, ashamed of my body, always running away from the feelings of how disgusted i feel with my body, even though Im not fat at all and I actually look pretty good),
> I dont know i will figure it out and puzzle it all together soon


I can understand why your sometimes angry when all that happened in the past, you seem like an allright guy:yes 
I hope you will feel better soon


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree that some of the medication advice is often ridiculous and reckless, but if you really wish to help people in the "medication" section of this board, it would help at least to inform yourself.

There's already a stigma even with drugs as benign as SSRIs that somehow people don't really NEED or benefit from psychiatric drugs, but rather many people have the attitude that turning to pharmacological help is a sign of great weakness of character. This attitude can be really harmful, especially with something like SA where, whether people like to admit it or not, they often DEEPLY care what the rest of the world thinks. People see that this is how much of the world might view them, and they end up not getting the proper help because of it. 

This is a mental health board and if people are discouraged from getting the help they need, it can result in severe consequences that you probably don't even realize. If it even causes one person to continue living housebound, or, god forbid, the lack of help eventually culminates in a suicide attempt, you are literally responsible for ruining someone's life.

Medication has a very valid place in psychiatry, and if you can't accept that, there's really no need to be trolling the "medication" forum. No, medication is not for everybody, and yes, some of the advice here on these boards is borderline dangerous, but if that's your concern, then address those instances directly WITH FACTS. People deserve to be well-informed, but telling somebody they're a substance abuser because they mentioned that sleep medications help them sleep (what a surprise) isn't constructive whatsoever, it's absolutely ridiculous and really only serves to do harm. Like I said, this is a mental health board, so the chances that the state of mind of the person on the other end of the monitor is anything but normal is quite high. Not a time to act like a tough guy.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Drug use can be dangerous, but for some people SA is impossible to overcome with psychology alone. There are a lot of associations being made between genes and mental disorders. Yes doctors/psychs prescribe meds, but many are proven to be barely more effective than placebo. So some people take matters into their own hands, until the pharm industry sorts its game out. I totally understand where you're coming from, and for a period I thought the same, but after numerous failed med trials and failed therapy, it does make you question whether the risks of self-medication are worth the benefits. Untreated SA and other disorders can be hellish.


oh no, I don't just believe in psychology alone. I am on meds, and I have tried all meds. My mom is a doctor and has prescribed me every off label drugs. (not recommended, probably shouldn't say it anyway, but that's how it worked) not any controlled substances though. My psychiatrist did that. 
I don't really feel like answering questions about what my mom did. and id rather you guys not say that its bad for someone to do that. But what is done is done. And its not even illegal to prescribe un controlled substances to family members.
So i tried all the drugs... over and over. (not all the drugs, but almost all the reasonable off label choices) no maoi's though because all antidepresants make me manic. *and you see this was my a huge part of my addiction, trying to fix all my problems with meds and continually getting off and getting on meds and getting a new one prescribed every week. So i see that in you guys so I automatically get angry. probably because I hated that part of myself because it was destroying me.* but this all happend because of the eating disorder (addiction)
i am on lamictal and have been for a while.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

meyaj said:


> I agree that some of the medication advice is often ridiculous and reckless, but if you really wish to help people in the "medication" section of this board, it would help at least to inform yourself.
> 
> There's already a stigma even with drugs as benign as SSRIs that somehow people don't really NEED or benefit from psychiatric drugs, but rather many people have the attitude that turning to pharmacological help is a sign of great weakness of character. This attitude can be really harmful, especially with something like SA where, whether people like to admit it or not, they often DEEPLY care what the rest of the world thinks. People see that this is how much of the world might view them, and they end up not getting the proper help because of it.
> 
> ...


alright well you get the last word because im done.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

guys keep in mind i really have a hard time getting my point across in real life, so when I type it out its even worse. so it might be jumbled and i cant really get my feelings across accurately with typing. and when i read others posts, i misinterperet alot of what people are saying. probably because im a lil hypomanic/bad concentration/angry/sad/lonely lol all emotions. I really cant focus when reading on the computer or books either. unless im super interested. im really bad with comprehension i think


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

stealyourface722 said:


> guys keep in mind i really have a hard time getting my point across in real life, so when I type it out its even worse. so it might be jumbled and i cant really get my feelings across accurately with typing. and when i read others posts, i misinterperet alot of what people are saying. probably because im a lil hypomanic/bad concentration/angry/sad/lonely lol all emotions. I really cant focus when reading on the computer or books either. unless im super interested. im really bad with comprehension i think


For me your completely cool now man.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

TiMeZuP said:


> ^ melotonin only helps people with certain types of insomnia. For me melotonin may relax the body but it doesnt turn off my mind so I can sleep.


 Have you tried different kinds of melatonin? I just realized today that the Source Naturals sublingual ones work MUCH better for me than the kind you swallow. The difference is night and day. I can take two of those and sleep for 12 hours.


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## TiMeZuP (Sep 30, 2009)

PickleNose said:


> Have you tried different kinds of melatonin? I just realized today that the Source Naturals sublingual ones work MUCH better for me than the kind you swallow. The difference is night and day. I can take two of those and sleep for 12 hours.


Didn't know there was 2 different kinds thanks. Ill check it out


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

PickleNose said:


> The difference is night and day.


lol.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

yea i use the sublingual, it seems to make you more drowsy for a shorter period of time. Rather than heavy sedation thats leaves you awake and lasts till the next day.
oh yea and i use the brand Midnite, and it has some other herbs in it but they are super small amounts.


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## Emptyheart (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't get used to it.


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## TiMeZuP (Sep 30, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Wow... How is your liver coping with that? Can't you replace the alcohol with even higher doses of benzos? I'd at least take a decent dose of N-acetyl-cysteine daily for liver protection. Have you tried mirtazapine for insomnia?
> lol.


My liver is a badass, what can I say  lol......

I wasn't adding Vodka because I thought it was fun, I did what was necessary at the time so I could sleep. For me, if I am not well rested; my mental/emotional health falls apart quickly. I didn't drink vodka every night but it got to the point where it was happening way to often.

As you suggested, I could have taken even higher doses of benzos but with the tolerance I built, no doctor would ever prescribe that amount, not to mention alot of insurance companies wouldnt cover it it.

I was at a point where I was consuming 90 mg Temazapam, 4 mg ativan, 9 mg lunesta, and sometimes a few Xanax's at night to aid my insomnia. In most cases, that barely impacted me cognitively. As bad as it sounds I could drive or even talk to someone such as a cop and they would never know. I really was at a point they had very little effect. Some nights where so difficult that alcohol was needed, within 10 min I was ready for sleep.

I realize this wasn't good idea and I was putting myself in a bad situation.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I've drastically reduced my benzo consumption because of the weed. I'm actually at a point where smoking a bowl and taking 1 (ambien) almost always treats my insomnia symptoms and I awake in the morning feeling very well rested.

Like you mentioned before, some weed just sucks, it makes me feel terrible and anxious. I feel fortunate to have a good friend that has essentially came to my "rescue". So for now, insomnia is fairly under control.

As for the mirtazapine; I've tried it. Didn't really help quiet my mind to sleep. Not to mention I felt like complete garbage the next day...... Thats one med I'll personally never try again


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## DrGonzo (Mar 16, 2010)

*Marijuana in SAD treatment*

I'm a strong advocate for the legalization of marijuana. Not to sound extreme but I think the hemp plant has uses that could potentially save the human race. It can be converted into an oil that can be made into plastics and such, it produces more ethanol than corn per acre and it has miraculous medicinal potential. I used to smoke pot very often, but it has always made my Social Phobia a lot more intense. Although, when in the form of hashish it has actually alleviated my symptoms. I believe, if tinkered with chemically, THC could work better than most medicines for symptoms associated with SAD and safer. It has worked for disorders relative to SAD and with the right combination, alterations and research we could have a new SAD treatment that actually works unlike Paxil, Zoloft and all of the other SSRIs. That's just me though, I can't speak for the folks that those medicines have actually worked for. As for smoking pot to sleep, it has never affected me in that way. To each his own I guess.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

Lostsoul26 said:


> Ive been using pot to cure my insomnia and i find it works very well. I smoke a small amount before i go to bed each night. I used to take sleeping pills but they made me feel tired in the morning and i would build up a tolerance.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this? Does anyone else use pot for sleep?


In what state is it allowed to use pot for medicinal purposes ?


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

Some Russian Guy said:


> In what state is it allowed to use pot for medicinal purposes ?


 Holland..?


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## DrGonzo (Mar 16, 2010)

In Oakland, CA its legal as long as its prescribed.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Delicate said:


> Holland..?


Its even legal there for recreation.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Anyway, just be careful. I wasn't saying you shouldn't use weed to be preachy or anything. Just that a lot of people get positively stupid about it if they find out someone smokes pot. 50+ years of propaganda is amazingly effective on a population that does anything the TV tells it to.

And yes. Weed can make you a bit paranoid. Though, sometimes that's not a bad thing. As long as you can tell the difference between being paranoid because you're high and a real, rational fear. Of course, if you have SA in the first place, this can be complicated. But most of us already know our fears aren't rational anyway. It's just that knowing that doesn't do any good when you have an anxiety disorder that makes you anxious whether you know it's irrational or not.

I think that a lot of the "paranoia" weed is supposed to cause comes from rational fears that are just amplified by the pot. For instance, someone who's really high might fear the cops are right outside ready to bust them at any moment. This is not necessarily an irrational fear. After all, a neighbor could have smelled the smoke and called the cops. And the cops have been known to bust people when someone reported them. So how paranoid is that person, really?

At any rate, I found that only smoking a little was way better than smoking way too much. I had a weird experience once when I smoked a blunt where I literally felt like my mind was leaving my body and dissolving into the space around me! It may sound cool but it wasn't. AT! ALL! I simply smoked too much. The weed was probably too potent for me as well. I'm really sensitive to any kind of drugs.


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

I know I've said before I could take a whole bottle of melatonin and it won't do a thing to me. I'm taking large amounts of valerian root now. Far more effective than melatonin but it can make you drowsy the next day. Personally I'll take the trade off.

Mirtazepine did make me feel like crap for a few days but the foggy haze was better than crying out of just exhaustion. That point of sleep deprivation where your brain cannot do anything but shut down and cry for no real reason. Sometimes I can't even talk beyond yes, no, and making sounds. There are no depressive thoughts, no stress, no anxiety, just exhaustion, and crying is the last attempt by your body to alter hormones and chemicals enough to sleep. I'll take anything over that state. After a few days I didn't feel anything bad from mirtazapine anymore but I'm already at 45mg in just a couple weeks and I'm getting tired of the constant hunger. I had a good idea it wouldn't work long term.



> And in my particular case, that's actually a good thing. My REM sleep seems to be overly active otherwise.


Have you had a sleep study? I'm waiting to see the latest results of recording my messed up brain on a computer. I can't decide if I'm getting stuck in the early stages of sleep or rem sleep. Although during this sleep study I seemed to just bounce all over the place and woke up or came close to waking up every few minutes and that was with 75mg of lyrica, 4mg of lorazepam, 30mg of mirtazapine, and 1000mg of valerian root. I doubt the results are going to change anything but after I talk to my doctor next week I'll have her forward them to the sleep clinic which is taking their time gathering records and refusing to prescribe anything until they've gone back 12 years in to my medical history. I found out the psychiatrist I saw then isn't even still alive but they insist on trying to get the records.



> GHB kind of fits that profile, heh


I'm saving this one. There is one legal form of ghb which is xyrem. It's strictly controlled by one company that does not distribute to pharmacies and only approved for narcolepsy and it costs about $1000/month which insurance won't always pay. It's my ace in the hole if no one can figure out the cause of my insomnia and a more exact treatment or if all the other meds fail me. I only know people with extreme insomnia that have tried xyrem and I don't know any it hasn't worked for. Getting it legally is probably about as difficult as getting any illegal drug though and the side effect list is a bit scary.

Without sleep though there is no life. There is only the point beyond depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts to where you are too exhausted to care, think, or interact. That's where I was when I almost got declared mentally disabled by the state and unable to make decisions for myself. Luckily I just barely avoided that because the pyschiatrist I was seeing just kept prescribing random meds that had drowsiness as a side effect until I was getting enough sleep I could start thinking clearly and solving this problem for myself.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Baclofen is similar to GHB (minus most of the euphoria), I'd imagine that'd be pretty cheap.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Baclofen is similar to GHB (minus most of the euphoria), I'd imagine that'd be pretty cheap.


Baclofen is garbage imo.
GHB is good because of the GHB agonism.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

But we're talking about treating insomnia here, the GHB receptor is excitatory.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> But we're talking about treating insomnia here, the GHB receptor is excitatory.


Its the GHB receptor that induces deep sleep, baclofen wont be better then benzo's.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Baclofen is garbage imo.
> GHB is good because of the GHB agonism.


I haven't tried a selective GABA-B agonist, but GHB knocks me the **** out at the right dose. No benzos can do that even if I take 10mg clonazepam... I bet the increased CNS depression from ethanol and GHB allow them to work much better for inducing sleep.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

Is it a pretty much well-known fact that marijuana causes you to have dreamless sleep? I'm at my wits end and can't stand taking antidepressants or benzos because they all cause me to have more horrifying dreams, more often and more intensely. It's going to be hard to convince my parents to let me smoke weed, perhaps I can make a cheesy appeal to my dad's Christianity (why did God create it then?). I don't really have any interest in using weed for euphoria, just want to feel normal.


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## mike8803 (Feb 21, 2010)

Be careful because heavy Marijuana usage can result in Social Anxiety.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Under17 said:


> Is it a pretty much well-known fact that marijuana causes you to have dreamless sleep? I'm at my wits end and can't stand taking antidepressants or benzos because they all cause me to have more horrifying dreams, more often and more intensely. It's going to be hard to convince my parents to let me smoke weed, perhaps I can make a cheesy appeal to my dad's Christianity (why did God create it then?). I don't really have any interest in using weed for euphoria, just want to feel normal.


No, weed can make you dream more

Benzos don't have too much of an effect, but most antidepressants are supposed to actually shorten REM sleep and prevent a lot dreaming. SSRIs tend to do it to a fairly significant degree, though tricyclics even more so, and MAOIs pretty much completely kill REM sleep. Interesting that you find you get the opposite effect, frequent and vivid dreams are usually a symptom of antidepressant WITHDRAWAL, pretty much the opposite of the antidepressant's intended effects.

I used to have frequent, ridiculously vivid dreams every night to the point that they would actually exhaust me, and when awake I'd have a hard time discerning which memories came from dreams and which from reality. Sleep paralysis was also a major issue, I dealt with it often multiple times a night. Since I've been on an MAOI for about 4 months now, I haven't had a single dream, which many might find undesirable but it is really a relief for me, and the sleep paralysis had ceased too.


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## Fitzer (Feb 13, 2010)

Smoking weed always makes me tired so I say go for it. You don't have to worry about getting addicted to it either, unlike sleeping pills.


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## mike8803 (Feb 21, 2010)

meyaj said:


> *No, weed can make you dream more*
> 
> Benzos don't have too much of an effect, but most antidepressants are supposed to actually shorten REM sleep and prevent a lot dreaming. SSRIs tend to do it to a fairly significant degree, though tricyclics even more so, and MAOIs pretty much completely kill REM sleep. Interesting that you find you get the opposite effect, frequent and vivid dreams are usually a symptom of antidepressant WITHDRAWAL, pretty much the opposite of the antidepressant's intended effects.
> 
> I used to have frequent, ridiculously vivid dreams every night to the point that they would actually exhaust me, and when awake I'd have a hard time discerning which memories came from dreams and which from reality. Sleep paralysis was also a major issue, I dealt with it often multiple times a night. Since I've been on an MAOI for about 4 months now, I haven't had a single dream, which many might find undesirable but it is really a relief for me, and the sleep paralysis had ceased too.


I'm sorry to tell you but smoking weed makes you dream less. I know from experience.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

mike8803 said:


> I'm sorry to tell you but smoking weed makes you dream less. I know from experience.


Maybe you dream, but don't remember it due to weed's effect on memory. But yeah if you use it for sleep, definitely get a 100% pure indica strain.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

mike8803 said:


> I'm sorry to tell you but smoking weed makes *you* dream less. I know from experience.


K, I'm sorry to tell you, but you're flat-out wrong. Weed makes *me* have more frequent, vivid, and disturbing dreams.

I hope you are able to see bold letters, because I'm going to show you the operant word here:



meyaj said:


> No, weed *can* make you dream more


If I had used a word that implied any sort of certainty, you might have an argument to make. If you're trying to imply that your own anecdotal experience somehow applies across the board, you clearly have a poor understanding of the way science (and reality itself, for that matter) works.

Marijuana's an interesting drug, and paradoxical effects are almost the norm. It's very difficult to predict how it might affect someone without looking at their specific past experiences, because it affects different people in practically every way imaginable. This is compounded by the fact that weed is composed of at least several significantly active chemicals, often with very different effects, where a different balance may change the result.

Some studies have found that weed *increases* REM sleep. Granted, there are even more studies that have concluded the opposite, and there are also many that conclude it has no effect at all. Some have found that weed doesn't effect the time spent in REM sleep, but rather decreases the actual movement of the eyeball, something likely tied to its ability to lower intraocular pressure (the reason it's useful in glaucoma) and doesn't necessarily imply an effect on dreaming one way or another. Many studies have found that REM sleep duration is only significantly decreased at very high doses of THC in particular, and that many of the effects produced can be the exact opposite at lower doses.

Point is, even the one-word answer, "No." to the question posed, "_Is it a pretty much well-known fact that marijuana causes you to have dreamless sleep?_" is absolutely correct. It is too uncertain, especially on an individual basis, to be calling it a well-known fact. So that is why I said it *can* make you dream more, without the presumptuousness that your statement holds that what applies to me must apply to everyone.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

Man, that sucks. Well are they at least happy dreams? Looks like it'll be a long time before I resort to self-medicate if it's not a proven, which is probably a good thing. I was always under the impression that benzos caused vivid dreams too, though it definitely hasn't been the rule for me. 

Actually, for about 3 or 4 years during high school when I was depressed I never remembered any of my dreams, and once I started going to talk therapy I began having vivid dreams. Once I started taking antidepressants, they went through the roof and today's the last time I'll ever take one again. The least horrifying dream I've had this past week has been Fred Durst with a vagina playing with a dildo while blowing farts. At least he had a vagina so I'm not gay, right?

I think taking melatonin in the past has caused me to have dreamless sleep, or at least waking up without remembering a single dream so I'll give that a shot tonight. As it stands, Ambien and other sleep aids seem too daunting unless anyone can convince me otherwise.


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## mike8803 (Feb 21, 2010)

meyaj said:


> K, I'm sorry to tell you, but you're flat-out wrong. Weed makes *me* have more frequent, vivid, and disturbing dreams.
> 
> I hope you are able to see bold letters, because I'm going to show you the operant word here:
> 
> ...


Studies have shown? Go ask any stoner if he/she dreams anymore.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I think scientific evidence counts a bit more than a stoner's recollection of events. That said, I didn't dream when I used to stone daily, at least I didn't remember dreaming anyway...


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I totally made a goof with my post. The entire time, I intended to concede the fact that the majority do, in fact, experience a decrease in the frequency and vividness of dreams, I was just pointing out that a person's individual response is not at all predictable.

*To Under17:* Which antidepressant are you taking that creates more vivid dreaming? You seem to be experiencing the opposite of the norm. The most vivid and easily recalled dreaming happens during REM sleep, and benzos tend to decrease the time spent in this stage of sleep, generally reducing dreams and making them less vivid. SSRIs will often do this too. Like I mentioned before though, tricyclics and MAOIs do so VERY potently, MAOIs to the point of almost completely obliterating REM sleep, so maybe changing antidepressants is something to think about.

I believe certain antidepressants which are often used for sleep like Remeron and Trazodone are capable of increased dreaming. Effexor and other short half-life drugs, especially taking in the morning, can cause a level of withdrawal symptoms which typically includes rebound REM sleep, which may account for your poor experience with antidepressants, as under the acute effects they really SHOULD be reducing dreaming. Same thing goes for benzos, particularly hypnotics with a short half-life. If you're using triazolam, alprazolam, lorazepam, midazolam, etc, they are probably not lasting quite long enough and any increase in dreaming would more likely than not be a rebound symptom towards the end of your sleep. In this case, a longer-acting hypnotic may be what you need.

Melatonin especially is sometimes used by people not who have any problem sleeping in the first place, but who want to enhance their REM sleep to get VERY vivid dreams in order to induce lucid dreaming. Experiencing a decrease while on melatonin is very unusual.

But if these are indeedd your actual experiences with all these different drugs and supplements, and nothing else weird is going on, it would be very hard to predict how your dreaming responds to a specific drug because in that case you would be enormously atypical.


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## mikefarinacci (Jan 9, 2012)

I really dont know anybody that has not slept better after smoking some good Indica. 
people say it doesn't work for them and i understand that, but possibly what they smoke could be Sativa which tends to make you hallucinate more, seem really "edgey", more of a head high, Instead of the Sativas relaxing state, and overall good feeling and Body High is know to help people with Insomnia and other disorders, if you were to try Marijuana i suggest to try somewhere where you know and feel safe and you dont have to smoke all of it, if your worried try one decent puff and where that takes you to if you feel like its not much try one more. i suggest a joint for the first time or if your really into it a Vaporizer is the best way to smoke Marijuana. thank you for taking time to read this. this is an alternate method of dealing with hard time sleep/Insomnia.


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## Takerofsouls (Oct 20, 2010)

I smoke a bowl before bed every night, and have been for quite some time now. I have fairly vivid dreams every night, but that might be a result of zopiclone. I think its safe to say that some people have dreams after smoking, and some dont. 
I find it strange when you type marijuana for insomnia on google theres not one legit study on there. So either none were ever approved to do a study, or someone has removed all the existing ones..


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## Rocky Mt Freak (Jan 11, 2012)

I like a hybrid personally for sleep but it is usually more indica then sativa 
not everyone is lucky enough to live 
somewhere you can buy it at the store.
i feel sorry for them.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I used to vaporize Marijuana on a regular basis as it helped with depression and anxiety/sleep. I had access to organic versions of indica such as Purple Kush, etc. I never used a lot. I would grind it up with a coffee grinder and vaporize small amounts. The problem is that it eventually made it hard to concentrate or live normally. I would forget to do simple things like pay for bills, etc.

I have always promoted Marijuana as an amazing substance but in all honesty if you are prone to depression it can make it worse.

It actually decreases the amount of time spent in REM sleep. REM sleep isn't really understood very well. Scientists think it may be needed for memory organization and discarding.

The problem with being a marijuana user is that it made me biased. I would only focus on the good science behind it. Like many things in science there are bad and there are good. Marijuana is a 50/50 sort of drug in that there is much good associated with it as well but I think the bad really does outweigh the good. Here are some studies showing some of its ill effects.



> Cannabis use is associated with disturbances in concentration and memory. New research by neuroscientists at the University of Bristol, published in the Journal of Neuroscience, has found that brain activity becomes uncoordinated and inaccurate during these altered states of mind, leading to neurophysiological and behavioural impairments reminiscent of those seen in schizophrenia.
> 
> M. T. Kucewicz, M. D. Tricklebank, R. Bogacz, M. W. Jones. Dysfunctional Prefrontal Cortical Network Activity and Interactions following Cannabinoid Receptor Activation. Journal of Neuroscience, 2011; 31
> 
> http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/43/15560





> The findings by Laviolette's laboratory identify a novel new brain pathway by which drugs acting on the cannabinoid system can distort the emotional relevance of incoming sensory information which in turn may lead to psychotic side-effects, such as paranoia, associated with heavy marijuana use.
> 
> H. Tan, N. M. Lauzon, S. F. Bishop, N. Chi, M. Bechard, S. R. Laviolette. Cannabinoid Transmission in the Basolateral Amygdala Modulates Fear Memory Formation via Functional Inputs to the Prelimbic Cortex. Journal of Neuroscience, 2011; 31 (14): 5300 DOI:
> 
> http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5300





> Any possible pain relief that marijuana has for people with multiple sclerosis (MS) may be outweighed by the drug's apparent negative effect on thinking skills
> 
> K. Honarmand, M. C. Tierney, P. O'Connor, A. Feinstein. Effects of cannabis on cognitive function in patients with multiple sclerosis. Neurology, 2011; 76 (13): 1153 DOI
> 
> http://www.neurology.org/content/76/13/1153


There are many studies showing its ill effects. I could spend all day posting them. I can also spend as much time posting about the good. I do however think the bad outweighs the good. I actually believe it had a bad affect on me. I didn't do too much at once but I did it daily and used it to help me sleep. As a result my memory/attention skills have declined at an alarming rate over the last year. This is the time I spent using Marijuana daily for sleep and anxiety. You may not even notice it because of how carefree it makes you. I decided to quit and the withdrawal was pretty bad. The withdrawal didn't hit me till a month after quitting. It may be that it has a greater impact the older you get as young people don't see it till they get much older. I'm 30 at this point. My work has suffered and have noticed a huge decline in mental ability and memory. Since I started using Remeron/Zoloft my memory and attention have been improving a bit and I hope to restore my mental faculties to what they were.

Once again I think doing marijuana once a week, on weekends, or even less frequently can be of benefit but be careful with making it a daily habit. It may not affect you, but everyone is different so there's a chance.

Note that the primary cannabinoid in marijuana is cannabidiol. This acts as an agonist to the 5-ht1a receptor. My doctor has had a lot of marijuana users who have developed problems and is up for trying drugs that mimic its effects at least as close as possible. We believe that my relief with Marijuana was due to this 5-ht1a agonism and as such he put me on Remeron/zoloft. Zoloft to increase serotonin in general and Remeron to block out some of the bad 5-ht receptors as well as act indirectly on the 5-ht1a receptor.

I was using Lexapro before the Zoloft but the side effects were horrible for me.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

For those arguing about dreams on weed. Dreams can occur in any stage but are most vivid and memorable during REM. I'd like to see some studies that do not show it affecting REM sleep as most show that it does. It does not completely eliminate it though.

Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1975 Apr;17(4):458-66.
Effects of high dosage delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol on sleep patterns in man.
Feinberg I, Jones R, Walker JM, Cavness C, March J.
Abstract
Electroencephalographic readings and eye movement were recorded in experienced marijuana users under placebo and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Four subjects were studied for 3 baseline nights, 3 nights under initial dosage of 70 mg/day, the last 3 nights of a 2-wk period of 210 mg/day, and the first 3 nights of withdrawal. Three other subjects were studied only during the latter 2 conditions. Administration of THC significantly reduced eye movement activity during sleep with rapid eye movements (REM) and, to a lesser extent, the duration of REM itself. Withdrawal led to increases above baseline in both measures but the "rebound" effect was greater for eye movement. Stage 4 sleep tended to increase on drug, but this effect was not statistically significant. On withdrawal, stage 4 sleep decreased significantly; this change was marked only on the first withdrawal night. The functional or biological significance of these changes is unclear. Nevertheless, these are the most marked effects of THC on brain electrical activity demonstrated thus far. Since its pattern of effects on sleep appears unique to THC, this drug may prove to be a valuable tool in the elucidation of the pharmacology of sleep. Possible relations between effects on sleep pattern and on behavior are discussed.


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## Stanley514 (May 3, 2014)

meyaj said:


> No, weed can make you dream more
> 
> Benzos don't have too much of an effect, but most antidepressants are supposed to actually shorten REM sleep and prevent a lot dreaming. SSRIs tend to do it to a fairly significant degree, though tricyclics even more so, and MAOIs pretty much completely kill REM sleep. Interesting that you find you get the opposite effect, frequent and vivid dreams are usually a symptom of antidepressant WITHDRAWAL, pretty much the opposite of the antidepressant's intended effects.
> 
> I used to have frequent, ridiculously vivid dreams every night to the point that they would actually exhaust me, and when awake I'd have a hard time discerning which memories came from dreams and which from reality. Sleep paralysis was also a major issue, I dealt with it often multiple times a night. Since I've been on an MAOI for about 4 months now, I haven't had a single dream, which many might find undesirable but it is really a relief for me, and the sleep paralysis had ceased too.


 Could you reveal which exactly MAOI do you use? And which MOAI has strongest effect of this kind, do you think?
Do you have some side effects?


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## Slytherclaw (Jul 16, 2011)

I always got the worst sleep after smoking. I would wake up after like 2-3 hours of being kinda-almost asleep and then feel like sh** anyway.


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## AceEmoKid (Apr 27, 2012)

Weed gives me pretty heavy sleep.


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