# Tryptophan and 5-htp difference?



## n1kkuh

Yeah I've been taking 5-htp along with St. Johns for about a week now, and I've been noticing better sleep and mood, and I'm pretty sure its not placebo. Any way is there a difference between Tryptophan and 5-htp as far as effects?


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## FairleighCalm

*As I understand it, L Tryptophan is the starter, the pre cursor of 5 htp, melotonin etc. It's an essential amino acid that I think is found in food, oh yeah, turkey milk nuts, seeds etc.*


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## Klonii

Huge difference from what I've read...

Tryptophan contains a mechanism that keeps serotonin from being created anywhere outside the brain (i.e. it only shows up on the correct side of the blood brain barrier).

5HTP is lacking this and you can have serotonin produced in the body which is NOT something you want and can supposedly lead to heart valve defects.

This is just from what I've read.

I suggest people google it.


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## robertz

Klonii said:


> Huge difference from what I've read...
> 
> Tryptophan contains a mechanism that keeps serotonin from being created anywhere outside the brain (i.e. it only shows up on the correct side of the blood brain barrier).
> 
> 5HTP is lacking this and you can have serotonin produced in the body which is NOT something you want and can supposedly lead to heart valve defects.
> 
> This is just from what I've read.
> 
> I suggest people google it.


I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. The correct side ??? What do you mean ? Actually there is more serotonin in the gut than in the brain.


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## ju_pa

n1kkuh said:


> Yeah I've been taking 5-htp along with St. Johns for about a week now, and I've been noticing better sleep and mood, and I'm pretty sure its not placebo. Any way is there a difference between Tryptophan and 5-htp as far as effects?


If I remember it right tryptophan has to compete with other amino acids to get through the blood brain barrier and into the brain. With 5-htp there is no such problem and serotonin will be more available for the brian.


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## renski

Anyone know if Vitamin B6 taken with L-Tryptophan makes a difference?

I'm noticing with L-Tryptophan, as I did with 5-HTP, that it's increasing my heartrate and making me a little jittery.


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## ju_pa

renski said:


> Anyone know if Vitamin B6 taken with L-Tryptophan makes a difference?
> 
> I'm noticing with L-Tryptophan, as I did with 5-HTP, that it's increasing my heartrate and making me a little jittery.


B6 is usually taken with magnesium


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## clovereater

I've taken both and there's not much difference. I've found taking them with a high potency probiotic (20 billion organisms x 5 caps) makes them more effective.


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## renski

After taking L-Tryptophan for the past 6 months, I think I'm over it.. its actually starting to make sleeping harder when I'm stressed about something. It only really works when my mind is at rest, then I get a GREAT sleep, to the point where I don't want to get out of bed, even after 12 hours of sleep. This follows on from using 5-HTP for 6 months. Both are evil.


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## robertz

renski said:


> After taking L-Tryptophan for the past 6 months, I think I'm over it.. its actually starting to make sleeping harder when I'm stressed about something. It only really works when my mind is at rest, then I get a GREAT sleep, to the point where I don't want to get out of bed, even after 12 hours of sleep. This follows on from using 5-HTP for 6 months. Both are evil.


Serotonin builds up in the body. You _must_ take breaks every once in a while... Furthermore, raising serotonin will lower dopamine if you don't take dopamine precursors like L-Tyrosine.


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## renski

robertz said:


> Serotonin builds up in the body. You _must_ take breaks every once in a while... Furthermore, raising serotonin will lower dopamine if you don't take dopamine precursors like L-Tyrosine.


In the last 6 months I've only ever taken 500mg of L-Tryptophan every 3-4 nights, on rare occassions i've used 1000mg. I've taken plenty of breaks, but no longer then a week. I can't take L-Tyrosine, it screws with my sleep even more and gives me heart palpitations.

I only started taking it for insomina, not depression, though now if I miss my dose I get severe depression. My issue with L-Tryptophan is it doesn't help with my sleep when I have a some activity or work the next day.


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## micmac28

how much do these supplements cost?


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## theCARS1979

*5 HTP, Focus Formula*

I have went back and forth from St Johns Wort and 5 HTP. I only took the 2 together for a little bit. I feel fine with 5 HTP though. The sleep is good for sure. Everythings good for now too. Im also taking Focus Formula. Has anyone heard of Focus Formula?
Steve


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## Klonii

robertz said:


> I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. The correct side ??? What do you mean ? Actually there is more serotonin in the gut than in the brain.


Google, I can't explain it better. Supposedly there is a tribe that had a green banana high in serotonin as a staple of their diet and they all developed heart valve problems.


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## robertz

Klonii said:


> Google, I can't explain it better. Supposedly there is a tribe that had a green banana high in serotonin as a staple of their diet and they all developed heart valve problems.


There are NO published clinical reports to indicate that such is the case. Unlike SSRIs 5-HTP does not block reuptake of serotonin, and unlike the MAO inhibitors, 5-HTP does not interfere with the activity of the enzyme that breaks down serotonin. The point here is that 5-HTP does not disrupt the normal process of serotonin release, reabsorption, and elimination from the body. Besides, 5-HTP is not a synthetic drug; it is an aminoacid produced naturally by your body's metabolism.

The problem associated with excess serotonin can arise from two major causes: the presence of tumors that release serotonin (known as the carcinoid syndrome), or the effects that develop when a serotonin-active antidepressant (an SSRI or tryciclic) is taken in combination with an MAO inhibitor. People with carcinoid tumors are known to be at higher risk of heart valve disease. BUT SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN UNABLE to induce valve disease in experimental rats by injecting them with high doses of serotonin on a daily basis. As I interpret these findings, the danger from serotonin-producing tumors comes not from the serotonin itself, but from increased levels of other substances the tumors produce. Among theses substances are the kinins, which cause inflammation. Chronic inflammation due to the presence of kinins can lead to tissue breakdown and can damage heart valves.

_Cited from 5-HTP, the Natural Way to overcome depression, obesity, and Insomnia by Michael Murray, N.D._


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## Klonii

I cannot find the study I originally read but I can say that in my research questions about 5HTP and heart damage are just as common as the opinion that it is completely safe.

On Wikipedia it states that scientists WERE able to induce valve disease in animals by injecting them with serotonin and it also lists heart valve disease as one of the possible side effects.

Additionally, many sites suggested that l-tryptophan is the preferred of the two. 

I'm just regurgitating what I researched as I found the suggestion that L-tryptophan was better to be overwhelming.

Your source is pretty biased. Again, I suggest people do some simple googling if they want to know.


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## robertz

Klonii said:


> Your source is pretty biased. Again, I suggest people do some simple googling if they want to know.


You are suggesting some "simple" googling, and you have been unable to find the source of your fears in 8 days since my last post ? Come on, show me a single study that correlates 5-HTP with heart valve damage. I really don't want you to fool people into thinking 5-HTP is dangerous without a proof.


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## Klonii

robertz said:


> You are suggesting some "simple" googling, and you have been unable to find the source of your fears in 8 days since my last post ?


This is a bit ridiculous - As if I have been spending 8 days trying to find studies on this. I have better things to do. My research on tryptophan and 5htp is over. I have no fears as I use L-tryptophan and infrequently at that.



robertz said:


> Come on, show me a single study that correlates 5-HTP with heart valve damage.


Why would this study exist? Studies cost money. There is no incentive for a pharmaceutical company to do such a study because they have nothing to gain. There are very few studies on 5htp which leaves us with a "best guess" scenario.



robertz said:


> I really don't want you to fool people into thinking 5-HTP is dangerous without a proof.


I never said it was dangerous. I simply reported what I had read. I used the word "supposedly" and suggested people google it for themselves i.e. don't take my word for it.

A simple search for the term "5htp heart valve" will bring up a number of hits demonstrating there is some concern for heart valve damage whether it is unfounded or not. I thought (still do) that was worth mentioning.

And for argument's sake, just because there isn't proof doesn't mean something isn't dangerous. Pretty obvious concept I think?

I suggest people take a look at this though: http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1999-February/037051.html

Decide for yourselves. My path is elsewhere.


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## renski

5-HTP works better for sleep IMO, L-Tryptophan tends to disturb my sleep.


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## liquidlava11

*Excess serotonin in blood is toxic*

Because it gets turned into serotonin in your liver, and dumped into
your blood (depending on your B6 status, in part). Same enzyme does
the job which does it for L-dopa (so it goes to worthless dopamine
before it can get across the blood brain barrier). Your system is not
built to handle much serotonin in the blood. SSRI's don't increase
serotonin levels in blood (only in the brain), but fenfluramine, as
well as methysergide and ergotomine, are all direct serotonergics (as
shown by their direct pulmonary hypertension on toxicity studies).
But serotonin does more than just cause pulmonary hypertension. It
also causes direct proliferation of myocytes, which grow where they are
not supposed to, and cause heart valve deformities. These are not only
seen with fenfluramine, methylsergide, and ergotomine, but also seen in
serotonin syndrome in carcinoid tumors, and in the best and largest
(but by no means all) studies the amount produced correlates with the
valve damage. And this valve syndrome has ALSO been described in West
African populations eating large amounts of serotonin in green bananas
(Matoki). You would think that with this much evidence some people
would be convinced that serotonin causes the valve syndrome in
carcinoid. But no-- since it hasn't been reproduced in animals, there
are still some unbelievers. Duh. The situation reminds very much of
AIDS and H. pylori. Not all enzymatic processes are the same for mammals 
humans. Monkeys with AIDS show no adverse effects.
In all cases where valve problems are associated with high blood
serotonins, the daily amounts of serotonin released into the
bloodstream needed to do the nasty dead (judged by urine metabolites)
is about 50 mg a day. Which is about the standard 5-HTP dose. So if
you're taking that, and metabolizing much of it, you can theoretically
be in trouble. No carbadopa is routinely given with the stuff to block
conversion to serotonin in the liver, and B6 is actually sometimes
given to "help" conversion in the brain (idiotically, since it just
make the problem worse in the liver-- people long ago learned they
can't do that with L-DOPA). Again, as you know, when these amino acid
analoges are decarboxylated in the liver, they are no longer
transportable into the brain by the large aryl amino acid transporter
there. So they are stuck in the system, and your lungs and other
organs have to metabolize them. Meanwhile, they wreck your pulmonary
valve.

Additionally, a study done showing blood levels of serotonin is 
cardiac-toxic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1850922/#__secid1822919


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## RenegadeReloaded

I've tried 5-HTP for 1 month and I saw no difference...


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## Naturopath

*cost of tryptophan*



micmac28 said:


> how much do these supplements cost?


cost varies depending on ml, count and brand and supplier; 500 ml 60 count generally runs in the $25-50 range


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