# Desoxyn



## pascal (Nov 15, 2008)

It took some convincing, but I manage to get from my p-doc a prescription of Desoxyn. I am, however, a bit hesitant. I am not sure what is the best approach with this medication.

I am currently takin Lyrica and Wellbutrin (and Deplin). Should I stop the WB berofe starting Desoxyn? Is this going to be to much norepinephrine?

Has anybody here tried that medication before? I had I weird reaction to the typical stim (adderal, dexedrine and concerta). They helped for a day or 2 and then got me either very tired or very anxious.

Does Desoxyn have the same typical tolerance issues?


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

If you have ADHD, tolerance doesn't seem to be a significant issue, for some reason. Many (most?) people on ADDForums have been on the same dosage of Vyvanse, Desoxyn, Adderall, and Ritalin for years and have required little or nothing in the way of increases. I'm not sure why this differs in people without ADHD, but it does seem to.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

I have ADHD and didn't last more than 7 months on Adderall XR taken everyday. I have to take it max 4-5 times a week. And whenever I can, take a med holiday(inbetween semesters).


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

Dr House said:


> I have ADHD and didn't last more than 7 months on Adderall XR taken everyday. I have to take it max 4-5 times a week. And whenever I can, take a med holiday(inbetween semesters).


You didn't abuse it at all (or any methamphetamines before)? Your dosage is also pretty small; some people take 100mg.  Interesting, though. Maybe it depends on the person, and possibly other drug interactions/tolerances as a result of other drugs.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

bmwfan07 said:


> You didn't abuse it at all (or any methamphetamines before)? Your dosage is also pretty small; some people take 100mg.  Interesting, though. Maybe it depends on the person, and possibly other drug interactions/tolerances as a result of other drugs.


I never abused it even once.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

Desoxyn is meth. Meth is meth pharmacuitical or not. I think it's toxic even in the adhd doses. Meth kills ....plain and simple


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Canadian4Life said:


> Desoxyn is meth. Meth is meth pharmacuitical or not. I think it's toxic even in the adhd doses. Meth kills ....plain and simple


Desoxyn may still be somewhat neurotoxic but is no way as toxic as crsytal meth. Crystal meth is NEVER pure. The impurities(paint thinner, battery acid whatever) and the high recreational dose is what causes crystal meth to be toxic at levels which will make your teeth fall out and your skin/body fall apart. Desoxyn 5-10mg pills aren't liable to kill anyone when taken at normal levels.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

Never meant literally kill someone but your personality in general. It's not AS toxic as crystal meth but it's still damaging just not to that extent...still does some damage. If you become dependant on meth good luck having success with anything else. I can see why it's illegal here in canada. The USA will let any drug on the market be sold..its a crime.


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

I don't really understand why someone would be prescribed straight Desoxyn, anyway, over Adderall, Ritalin, or Vyvanse.


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## Ego Dead (Dec 3, 2010)

I always loved how doctors could give out meth for stuff like this, and no one even thinks anything about it, but a plant like cannabis is still taboo. 

I live in Maine, I think if I actually cared enough, I could probably get a medical marijuana card for SA.

By the way, meth is meth, im not talking about badly cooked meth and what impurities people might put in it. But pure crystal meth is no different then desoxyn. Its the exact same drug, and if you have a very precise scale you could measure out a exact dosage just like a pill would allow you to do.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

Isn't crystal often racemic though depending on how it's cooked? Desoxyn is just pure d-. Meth isn't very big here so I've never really thought about it before.


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

bmwfan07 said:


> I don't really understand why someone would be prescribed straight Desoxyn, anyway, over Adderall, Ritalin, or Vyvanse.


I only know of one person on here thats been prescribed it and I don't think they liked it very much (the person with a banana avatar or something like that).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Canadian4Life said:


> Desoxyn is meth. Meth is meth pharmacuitical or not. I think it's toxic even in the adhd doses. Meth kills ....plain and simple


Why? In rodents the toxiticy behing meth is explained by increased hyperthermia/oxidative stress and not really something worse about meth itself, only becomes apperant in high doses.

If desoxyn kills, why isnt that documented on pubmed (like with other meds that can have severe side effects?)


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

It's amphetamine..and meth at that. Pumping out neurotransmitters will wear your brain out..especially desoxyn. All meds will though I think and it's just one's opinion and preference. If it works then go for it!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Canadian4Life said:


> It's amphetamine..and meth at that. Pumping out neurotransmitters will wear your brain out..especially desoxyn. All meds will though I think and it's just one's opinion and preference. If it works then go for it!


But meth is more neurotoxic because the added 5HT release increases hyperthermia and it also releases more dopamine wich causes oxidative stress, combined that leads to severe neurotoxiticy, however therapeutic doses dont cause hyperthermia and monoamine release is simular to comparable doses of normal amphetamine's, i dont see any reason why meth should be more neurotoxic in low doses.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

I don't see it as safe as regular amphetamine at all. Probably not very toxic but definetly has some neurotoxic potential. But all meds do to an extent. Benzos are probably more damaging then amphs but if the med helps then by all means go for it


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Pumping out neurotransmitters is what we do in crayzymeds head.

I'm wondering wheter desoxy works better against motivation, dex doesnt seem all too great for impulsivity either, i nearly killed myself 6 times last week with some never before seen stupid ****, even had kidney failure, severe vasoconstriction once, but thats all because i messed something up with my adronergic receptors last summer in some huge rc mix of several overdoses, wich i tought i could counteract with a bunch of other rc's and wine lol.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

Sadly at low doses regular amphetamine is no different from methamphetamine in terms of toxicity. Methamphetamine sure does get alot of bad press though, i wonder what parents would think if their precious six year old was put on meth, yet adderall is fine by them.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

bben said:


> Sadly at low doses regular amphetamine is no different from methamphetamine in terms of toxicity.


Sadly? The long term clinical use of those meds confirm their safety.


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

No crayzyMed you don't understand it's METH and METH KILLS I heard it on the Fox News. There is no difference at all between this stuff and bathtub meth of unknown purity and potency. Anybody with a desoxyn prescription will have their house explode any moment now, run for the hills.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

VagueResemblance said:


> METH and METH KILLS


This saying comes from the 1970s when everyone was injecting methamphetamine, were using dirty needles, and got hepatitis.

My Pdoc who I really respect told me desoxyn is the adhd drug with the least amount of side effects available on the market. The only reason he doesn't prescribe often is that it is crazy expensive.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

VagueResemblance said:


> No crayzyMed you don't understand it's METH and METH KILLS I heard it on the Fox News. There is no difference at all between this stuff and bathtub meth of unknown purity and potency. Anybody with a desoxyn prescription will have their house explode any moment now, run for the hills.


Lmao


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

bben said:


> Sadly at low doses regular amphetamine is no different from methamphetamine in terms of toxicity. Methamphetamine sure does get alot of bad press though, i wonder what parents would think if their precious six year old was put on meth, yet adderall is fine by them.


I totally agree


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Dr House said:


> Crystal meth is NEVER pure.


Exactly. Street drugs can contain anything, adding further danger to what was effectively banned from most use due to it being "dangerous."



Dr House said:


> The impurities(paint thinner, battery acid whatever) and *the high recreational dose* is what causes crystal meth to be toxic at levels which will make your teeth fall out and your skin/body fall apart. Desoxyn 5-10mg pills aren't liable to kill anyone when taken at normal levels.


Dr. House hits the nail on the head again. Meth addicts are not typically examples of good health, but then neither are folks who think a liter of vodka is a single serving. The "meth mouth" thing probably also has something to do the typically poor oral hygiene of drug addicts.

The DEA and all those who buy the drug war propaganda would have one think there is no issue of dosage and all drugs (save alcohol, of course) with the potential to produce a happy mind-altering state are inherently bad, evil, and dangerous. Then they, feeling holier than thou, go to a cocktail party and consume alcohol that is dangerous and even fatal if used in excess, all while totally failing to see any logical inconsistency.

I can count on one hand (with fingers to spare) the number of people on SAS I've come across who had a methamphetamine script. It's not at all common. Nobody is likely to rob a pharmacy of it as they'd have to come back the next day at the earliest since no pharmacy even bothers to stock Desoxyn unless they by chance have a customer who is on it.

Methamphetamine is VERY rarely prescribed, in large part due to the stigma attached to it.



> Anybody with a desoxyn prescription will have their house explode any moment now, run for the hills.


I too can only roll my eyes when I hear such hysterics from the drug warriors. Nobody would be cooking the damn stuff and blowing up their mobile home if not for it being stuck in the black market by drug laws. The dangerous home cooking of meth is then used to justify the laws that make it illegal. Evidently the DEA doesn't know and/or care what a circular argument is.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

bben said:


> Methamphetamine sure does get alot of bad press though, i wonder what parents would think if their precious six year old was put on meth, *yet adderall is fine by them*.


Adderall is so old-fashioned, being generic even in the XR version.

Any good parent today would have their precious six-year-old on Vyvanse, which is metabolized into dextroamphetamine for the profit of Shire, the drug company that desperately needed a "new" cash cow after Adderall XR went generic.

Dextroamphetamine has been on the market since 1935, making Vyvanse a round-about way of consuming what is a 75-year-old drug!

Odd how Shire now feels what is converted into pure d-amphetamine is what all the hyper kids need now, when previously it was absolutely imperative that l-amphetamine be mixed in as provided by the mixed amphetamine salts in Adderall. A cynic might dare think this has more to do with finance than pharmacology.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> Adderall is so old-fashioned, being generic even in the XR version.
> 
> Any good parent today would have their precious six-year-old on Vyvanse, which is metabolized into dextroamphetamine for the profit of Shire, the drug company that desperately needed a "new" cash cow after Adderall XR went generic.
> 
> ...


Some people respond to a mixture of l-amphetamine AND d-amphetamine, other's can only tolerate d-amphetamine and can't tolerate l-amphetamine at all, and then there's some like me who prefer methylphenidate. There's also d-methylphenidate (focalin) too because ritalin is d-l methylphenidate. There only now starting to understand what adhd really is and just because one has adhd or add doesn't mean that they "need" l-amphetamine. It's all about brain wiring and personal preference. They are putting these different meds out there for Choice so that people can find one that suits them. It might be a money racket I agree but there is some logic behind it as well.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Canadian4Life said:


> Some people respond to a mixture of l-amphetamine AND d-amphetamine, other's can only tolerate d-amphetamine and can't tolerate l-amphetamine at all, and then there's some like me who prefer methylphenidate. There's also d-methylphenidate (focalin) too because ritalin is d-l methylphenidate. There only now starting to understand what adhd really is and just because one has adhd or add doesn't mean that they "need" l-amphetamine. It's all about brain wiring and personal preference. They are putting these different meds out there for Choice so that people can find one that suits them. It might be a money racket I agree but there is some logic behind it as well.


Drug manufacturers only include enough "logic" than is absolutely necessary to sell their drugs.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Amphetamine's do appear to reduce BDNF and NGF in low doses in some brainarea's and do the opposite in higher doses but in what this translate's is not sure, i havent seen any evidence tough that there should be a difference btw meth and normal amphetamine in therapeutic doses i would also expect pubmed to be flooded with anecdotal reports like we see regarding tardive dyskinesia if those drugs are indeed really bad for long term use, offcourse looking at this, amphetamine suggests more safety since its in massive use.


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

So did we ever ever come to any consensus on whether desoxyn was effective for treating SA?


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

^The euphoric/confidence boosting/wired effects don't last long on stimulants, as they're not meant to produce those effects but rather just help with focus, so I would say they're not going to help with SA on a daily basis.

I could see it possibly helping with SA if you take it PRN, and supplementing it with something to hinder tolerance such as chelated magnesium, DXM, or memantine (if you can get your hands on this and can deal with any potential bad side effects from it). But then, it will only help on the days you take it.


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

Xande said:


> ^The euphoric/confidence boosting/wired effects don't last long on stimulants, as they're not meant to produce those effects but rather just help with focus, so I would say they're not going to help with SA on a daily basis.
> 
> I could see it possibly helping with SA if you take it PRN, and supplementing it with something to hinder tolerance such as chelated magnesium, DXM, or memantine (if you can get your hands on this and can deal with any potential bad side effects from it). But then, it will only help on the days you take it.


This is posted from the Pharmacokinetics section in Wikipedia:

Pharmacokinetics

Mechanism of amphetamine action. Left: normal operation of dopaminergic terminal. Right: dopaminergic terminal in presence of amphetamines. Note the reverse action of the dopamine transporter (DAT), the vesicular monoamine transporter (VMAT) and the decrease of the standard vesicular neurotransmitter efflux. Amphetamine allows dopamine to transit in both directions (blue & red arrows) from the terminal, unlike dopamine reuptake inhibitors (such as cocaine) which block dopamine reentry at both the terminal and at the reuptake pump, whereas dopamine releasing agents allow reentries and exits from both.
*Following oral administration, methamphetamine is readily absorbed into the bloodstream, with peak plasma concentrations achieved in approximately 3.13 to 6.3 hours post ingestion. The amphetamine metabolite peaks at 10 to 24 hours.*[1] Methamphetamine is also well absorbed following inhalation and following intranasal administration.[1] It is distributed to most parts of the body. *Methamphetamine is known to produce central effects similar to the other stimulants, but at smaller doses, with fewer peripheral effects.[47] Methamphetamine's high lipophilicity also allows it to cross the blood brain barrier faster than other stimulants, where it is more stable against degradation by monoamine oxidase (MAO).*[1]
Methamphetamine is metabolized in the liver with the main metabolites being amphetamine (active) and 4-hydroxymethamphetamine (pholedrine); other minor metabolites include 4-hydroxyamphetamine, norephedrine, and 4-hydroxynorephedrine.[1][48][49] Other drugs metabolized to amphetamine and methamphetamine include benzphetamine, furfenorex, and famprofazone.[50][51] Selegiline (marketed as Deprenyl, EMSAM, and others) is metabolized into the less active L-isomer of amphetamine and the inactive L-isomer of methamphetamine.[1] Although only the D-Isomer of selegiline will metabolize into active metabolites, both isomers may cause a positive result for methamphetamine and amphetamine on a drug test, in certain cases.[52]
It is excreted by the kidneys, with the rate of excretion into the urine heavily influenced by urinary pH. Between 30-54% of an oral dose is excreted in urine as unchanged methamphetamine and 10-23% as unchanged amphetamine. Following an intravenous dose, 45% is excreted as unchanged parent drug and 7% amphetamine.[53] *The half-life of methamphetamine is variable with a mean value of between 9 and 12 hours.*
[edit]
Granted, that last bit about half life is concerning intravenous administration but I would assume half-life would be even faster if administered IV, as opposed to orally because of first-pass through the liver? Someone more knowledgeable than me please chime in (crazymed). if my assumption is correct, when ingested orally the half life may be even longer than 9-12 hours.

Regardless, if the peak amphetamine metabolite peaks at 10-24 hours, a normal dose of desoxyn will have you cruising pretty much all day. This means the euphoric/stimulant effects you speak of are after all lasting all day. I mean for god's sake, you ever smoked it? Keeps you up for days? but that's getting off-topic. i am trying to fcocus on pharmaceutical treatment for SA and/or ADD with desoxyn. My point is that I am putting forth a hypothesis that perhaps desoxyn could be a viable option for ADD/SA with convenient once day oral dosing instead of repeated dosing with other stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin with their inevitable ups and downs.

Why could not taking desoxyn at therapeutic dosages with careful vigilance about tolerance (memantine, dxm, magnesium etc.) be a plausible an option, or maybe even a superior one, to medications like Adderall or ritalin?


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

^ Not quite sure. Don't know much about desoxyn, only familiar with adderall. But just said the above from what I've encountered on ADD forums and from personal experience with addy ir & xr. 

It may be a plausible option if you're lucky enough I guess haha. But that would mean that you would not build up a tolerance to the wired euphoric feeling even when taking daily, which sounds a bit unrealistic even while on memantine/dxm imho (never tried it before though). I can imagine it working if you take it like once a week though, once a day seems like you won't be able to avoid the tolerance to the euphoria no matter what you try (again just my opinion and from what I've read of other's experience even while on memantine, etc). 

Also trying desoxyn and memantine doesn't sound like the easiest thing to do. I've never suggested a med to my doc, since she wouldn't let me, but I guess some docs are more loose with their pads. Also even if you get memantine, you have to see if you'll be able to find the correct dose and if you are able to deal with side effects (you can do a google search, but their is a very good thread on memantine with some people sharing their experiences on addforum.com). In addition to the side effects of memantine, you have to see how you deal with the side effects of stimulants (some people get increased anxiety and other negative side effects). It's just my belief that there is no med that will provide euphoria on a daily basis without any negatives.

Not trying to be a downer, as I would be very interested to see someone try this out, but I mean the ideas have been posted around this forum, so just wondering why people haven't tried it or been successful with this (overcoming SA with a stimulant and NMDA Antagonist on a daily basis). 

But in the end, if you do end up getting desoxyn and memantine, be sure to start a thread to keep track of your experience, would be interesting to read. Good luck!


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

you make a valid point man.... there's not no way in hell you could prevent tolerance from occurring when taking meth daily.... i guess adderall xr is the best option? i am on paxil an klonopin now and am about to start focusing on the dopamine angle and am hope very much i find a med thats a great fit. addie XR and addie worked great back in the day but i didnt know i had SA then and abused them.... vyvanse didnt seem to help either but i was on 140 mg a day with no SA support other than effexor and lyrica and wellbutrin....and also still clueless about the fact i was dealing with SA to begin with and not some inherent defect in my hereditary makeup. 

You guys have done some great research.... the idea of a moderate dose as opposed to a high dose, coupled with the NMDA anagonism and occasional breaks from the med are pure genius..... who knew what lengths people would go to with this disorder to treat it 
(and im referring to us, not psychiatrists right now).... one could make a case SA sufferers are the most ingenious and relentless in pursuing relative peace from their specific mental illness through pharmacological means.... its a testament to just how debilitating the ****ing thing is and also how complicated it can be to treat


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## super (Sep 9, 2009)

lol legal meth, oh america


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

super said:


> lol legal meth, oh america


lol, they're not exactly selling it at the gas stations bro  (i just realized a few years ago that statement could have been a massive double entendre, but we're talkin bout 2011 here boys 

i find it interesting heroin is legal and used in the UK when it is no stronger a painkiller than morphine. whats up with that?

btw super, it wont let me respond to ur message for some reason. keeps sayin no more than 3 messages per 3 minutes or some **** like that? makes no sense. anyway i would not tgake caffeine with oxycodone and i would do the same thing with it as i would with other drugs, work your way up relatively slowly but still have fun. if you could handle 15 mg, u can handle 20. try that next time would be my advice. also, expect nausea when first beginning oxycodone. thats just how it is man. your options there would be a prescription called promethazine, an OTC named dramamine (thats the one i'd use) and then this other OTC called bonine. get dramamine if it bugs u that bad but it went away after about a week of fairly consistent use with me


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## super (Sep 9, 2009)

Hercules7 said:


> lol, they're not exactly selling it at the gas stations bro  (i just realized a few years ago that statement could have been a massive double entendre, but we're talkin bout 2011 here boys
> 
> i find it interesting heroin is legal and used in the UK when it is no stronger a painkiller than morphine. whats up with that?
> 
> btw super, it wont let me respond to ur message for some reason. keeps sayin no more than 3 messages per 3 minutes or some **** like that? makes no sense. anyway i would not tgake caffeine with oxycodone and i would do the same thing with it as i would with other drugs, work your way up relatively slowly but still have fun. if you could handle 15 mg, u can handle 20. try that next time would be my advice. also, expect nausea when first beginning oxycodone. thats just how it is man. your options there would be a prescription called promethazine, an OTC named dramamine (thats the one i'd use) and then this other OTC called bonine. get dramamine if it bugs u that bad but it went away after about a week of fairly consistent use with me


hahah im starting to like you more and more bro
wow heroin is used still? mind blown

thanks for replying to the message man.
the reaction was really bad, 7 hours later i was seconds from passing out, shaking like crazy unlike anything ever before i thought i was screwed. then i finally was able to vomit. i had to get an injection to stop it because the feeling came back. i kept holding on for hours thinking it would go away but holy **** it was so bad, i pretty much projectile vomited.

your right it was probably that mixture especially on an empty stomach too. what dose of dramamine should i use to counter the nausea? when should i take the dramamine with oxy? 1 hour before ?

i hate nausea more than anything else lol
by the way, i noticed when i was younger and was in hospital i had to have oxycodone and i didnt get the positive effects back then compared to now, is it possible my 'brain chem' is changing?


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## twistedsister56 (Dec 5, 2011)

*desoxyn ignorance from govt, propaganda*

I am a 54 yr old RN with severe Narcolepsy which there is no known cure, I have been in multiple auto accidents, fired from jobs due to my inability to be aware of my falling asleep and I suffered falls with injuries and fractures. I am now on SSDI and still nit relieved of my hypersomnia. Desoxyn is a wonderful drug if used in certain situations as in Narcolepsy treatment. I have some concern with the over prescribing of stimulants to a over diagnosed condition such as ADD, ADHD or just folks playing the system to get the drugs as it only hurts patients like myself that suffer from a lifelong disorder that is underdiagnosed, misdiagnosed and misunderstood so getting appropriate treatment to have some quality to our lives is a struggle but to read the ignorance of some of you makes me want to shake the ignorance the governtment propaganda and the meth addicts and other addicts that make our health care system a farce for the patients who truely need these medications to live a life without hurting ourselves or crashing into one of you fools who all seem to be drugseekers.. I have just the thing for all of you and it cost 5 cents


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## imrj (Jan 20, 2009)

^^^^ Nuff Said !!!!


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