# Going Raw?



## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

I heard it can clear up skin, give you crazy amounts of energy, clean your body right out fresh, and help you lose any stubborn extra pounds. Sounds all around good. I have been vegetarian for couple years now, tried vegan for a few months but didn't feel well bc I wasn't making sure I planned my diet healthily but I have been writing down some raw vegan recipes and they sound really good! I think I know how to balance my meals and nutrient intake this time around so I'm going to go for at least a 75% raw nutrition. 
Anyone here eat raw? 
You can also be raw and omnivore, there's even raw carnivores too and of course vegetarians.. just throwing that out there lol.

Today I've had half a cucumber dipped in soy sauce (which I know isn't raw.. Bla bla w.e .. remember 75% lmao) and some white kidney beans mixed with mustard mmm (mustard also isn't raw.. WHATEVAAAAA).. and I feel loads of energy. I'm down to get down and green with mother nature!!!!!!! :clap


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## beethoven (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm vegan and I was 100% raw for 2 months as an experiment. It takes a while to adjust to all the fiber and extra volume that you have to eat in order to get the calories you need. But after 2 weeks the energy levels were amazing.

I couldn't keep it up because socially it was nearly impossible for me. But I learned a lot from the experience and incorporated a lot of raw food elements in my diet.


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## LostProphet (Apr 4, 2010)

My gf made the decision a month ago to go vegan to boost her energy levels. So far she said she hasn't noticed a huge change in energy levels, but she's still sticking through it.


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## josephisaverb (Mar 8, 2011)

The white beans aren't raw either. 

I'm a firm believer in eating raw. However, I just can't do it. I ate raw for about 2 months last year, and I did feel amazing, but it was way too effort to get enough calories and like Beethoven said, it's hard to eat anywhere but home. I also developed thrush as a result of focusing to much on fruits, and I have known others who also developed thrush, so beware that if you decide to try a raw diet. 

Good luck, let me know if you go down that path, I'd love to follow your experience! I still think about trying again.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

Cool thanks guys! 
I have done some research and found so much I thought was raw wasn't haha but it will be mainly the condiments I use, packaged oatmeal, canned/frozen veg when I can't get/afford fresh ones. I like the feeling of eating a fresh veggie like a cucumber and feeling full after and the rush you get from healthy foods  I think I shall stick to this for my lifetime. I can't see myself ever being able to accomplish 100% but over 50% is a must. I can totally see why socially it would be super hard but grats on still staying vegan beethoven and yay for everybody else trying to be healthy!


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## silver777 (Mar 20, 2011)

Going raw definitely helps with toxin removal and a healthy digestive system and thats mainly y ud feel great..our bodies r meant for a raw diet..cooking destroys nutrients and antioxidant properties in food. i am battling to do it but as soon as i eat something processed or cooked i immediately feel strange, but im trying harder each day and striving to reach a balanced everyday diet without cheating.


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## Giraffe (Sep 7, 2010)

Frankly, I've never seen anything that might convince me that going raw is a good idea. I mean raw foods are harder to digest than cooked ones, so you'd be getting fewer nutrients out of them. Plus the difficulty of getting enough calories and the vague claims and the huge investment of time and energy that goes into such a diet.

I don't doubt that most people have good intentions when they start a raw diet, but I do think there are a lot of advantages of eating cooked food that they're missing out on.


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## sas111 (Oct 20, 2010)

I've gone raw many times. I end up loosing mass amounts of weight & never ever getting a zit, my skin seems to have a pretty glow. =]

As for energy, you have to be consistent with the plan, you won't notice any effects for the first two weeks or so I actually felt exhausted & deprived in the beginning.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

Interesting comments guys thanks! You all sound so smart like you do your research.
Day one went pretty well, but i did binge on carbs (flatbreads wtih different seeds, and 2 packets of oatmeal) but i do have a binging purging type of eating disorder (sorry if thats tmi for you but w.e its the truth) so its hard to control that side of it sometimes.. but i did go all day til 10pm on the raw so im happy for that lol. today will hopefully go better.. i love feeling healthy eating raw delicious vegetables and there is little to no guilt involved eating them


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## caithiggs (Jan 11, 2009)

I can barely eat cooked vegetables let alone raw. My diet is like bread, and eggs, and more bread, oh and coffee. and sweets. Lol. It's bad. Real bad. I would LOVE to eat raw. If only! Will you be my nutritionist? 

Never learned to balance my diet in my life, and it sure isn't coming natural to me either. Don't know how people really do it, to be honest. I'm so envious. My diet is kind of my ruin, I know how bad it affect my mood and everything.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm in NOOOO position to be anybodys nutritionist hahaha, but I will support you 100% if you want to eat raw I have a bunch of websites I've found with great recipes etc... I find going totally raw too hard so my goal is to be 75% raw. I will update along the way any benefits i find of it in this thread. Currently im going on a fast though so i dont have much to contribute for a bit!


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

Quack quack quack quack quack quack I'mma duck


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## MoniqueS (Feb 21, 2011)

I like the idea of it! But living in a house with my parents, who are not horrible but not the healthiest eaters in the world. And they buy the groceries, so there is a limit to how much of my diet I can inflict onto them. But with different schedules, we only have dinner together, so I try to have pretty much raw, super health foods when I can control it. It has given me so much more energy, and I'm losing all the weight I gained during the worst of my depression when I all I did was lay around and eat ice cream.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

dukeofprunes - why are you being an idiot.. is that some type of passive aggressive attempt at telling me off somehow?.. id like for you to expand on that.. if youre going to be a clown might aswell be one with a set of balls.

monique- i know how it is itend to overeat when im depressed too. i wish you best of luck getting it off and im glad you are feeling better


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm too lazy to do something like this but if someone else did the cooking I'd give it a shot.

Somebody said they got thrush(yeast) from it. That makes it sound like its increasing your blood sugar which doesn't sound good.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

If you can show me proper studies in clinical settings with no bias (so nothing from alternative health publications) and an adequate amount of data to prove that the benefits of eating nothing but raw food are anything more than a lie perpetuated by "OMG LOL CORPORATIONS ARE BAD LOL PROCESSED FOOD IS DANGEROUS" idiots, then I might take this stuff seriously.

From what I've seen, only alternative medicine enthusiasts (aka quacks and their loyal followers) and vegans (which is unhealthy by default anyway unless performed with a carefully calculated diet to compensate for the fact that we're essentially carnivores with a slight need for fibre and a greater tolerance for carbs than other carnivores) promote these diets, and both of those groups are so fanatic and unscientific in their ways that nothing they say can be trusted at face value.

So, if you don't want me to be a "clown" or an "idiot" (nice one resorting to insulting of intelligence right off the bat) give me proof other than "I ate x and y and it made me feel good" (the placebo effect is powerful when you're really buying into what you're doing).


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

^ Im sorry but I never knew it was my job to convince you of anything?
i didnt read too many studies and i dont care im just doing it for myself. you dont want to be vegan or raw then dont be... ? lol


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

You don't have to convince me, but if raw food is so good, why wouldn't you want to? It's not like it's a new practise with no studies done on it, I'd understand in that case. If you're unwilling/unable to show evidence to convert people to these ways that you're so keen on promoting, it shouldn't be promoted, and nobody in their right mind should be taking it seriously. Nothing should be free from scrutiny.

I've had my say, and if nobody wants to post the evidence, I'm out of here


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

^ I cannot want to convince u bc im just doing an experiemnt myself idk if its good or not yet...who knows i might wind up growing a taillol... youre correct it is very debatable.. i just dont like ur smug approach like everybody owes u evidence.. you could ask nicer if anybody has links and u might get a better response next time


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

Smug is my middle name.


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## Lachlan (Jul 3, 2008)

There is so much great stuff to learn about food and nutrition. I am part of a raw food group, though I don't really believe 100% raw is the ideal diet. I've realised my diet has a large effect on the way I feel, how I think and my body. There certainly are a lot of different opinions and information out there about food and nutrition and how food effects health. I think the best thing I did was to start thinking about it, asking questions, talking to people and researching and I would recommend this to anyone because I think it's been beneficial for me.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

^ very smart. i feel the same way that foods affects me so much more than just my body. i should def research more but idk where to start alot of internet is bunch of BS.. all i know is either way i want to remain vegetarian.. ideally vegan
glad u found what works for u


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Lachlan said:


> There is so much great stuff to learn about food and nutrition. I am part of a raw food group, though I don't really believe 100% raw is the ideal diet. I've realised my diet has a large effect on the way I feel, how I think and my body. There certainly are a lot of different opinions and information out there about food and nutrition and how food effects health. I think the best thing I did was to start thinking about it, asking questions, talking to people and researching and I would recommend this to anyone because I think it's been beneficial for me.


Good post! I do agree that diet has a much bigger role than most people give it credit for. :yes

Going back on topic, I've personally been on all sorts of diets over the years; vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, paleo, raw paleo etc. And the one conclusion that I've reached is that *any* whole foods diet is beneficial and can allow people to thrive. (If someone trys to make out that their approach is the only way then run a mile btw! )

'Durian Rider' is a good example of a raw vegan doing well on his approach and a guy called rawbase is probably the best example of a raw paleo. Standard Paleo has Mark Sisson probably as it's main figure head right now and Veganism has Fuhrman/Dougall/Oz.

However the key point to take home, is that *every *diet seems to have a metabolic disadvantage of some kind. If you don't cater to the gaps you're going to start going downhill quickly in the long/medium term.

For Raw Veganism here's the finer points you should take into consideration:

-It's a lot harder to get the calories in, as there's so much fibre and water content.
-eating raw is the cleanest method possible - facilitating extra unused digestive energy to be instead turned to healing up the body. However raw is also one of the least nutrient dense diets out there. Both in terms of actual content of the food and how much you absorb in it's raw state. There is a reason why the people who seem to be doing well on the diet are eating 3000 cals a day minimum. (check durian rider for more on this)
- As with any vegan diet, check your vitamin B12, vitamin D and pro vitamin A levels regularly.
-Your digestive system is similar to your muscles, they strengthen with use. Eating raw gives them a rest, but also makes them too use to lack of strain. Therefore If you try going back to cooked after a certain period, you'll initially have digestive issues. (but this should go after a couple of weeks) 
-Body temperature drops on this diet, period. Raw advocates say this is a good thing alluding to high temperature being a sign of illness. This is very much debatable (personally speaking I find the opposite to be the case) This however means it's very hard to stay raw in a cold or even temperate climate.


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## Giraffe (Sep 7, 2010)

I'll just leave this here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa


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## caithiggs (Jan 11, 2009)

I feel like doing research on it would be quite difficult, as the food industry is severely messed up, you probably won't find anything that leads anywhere by way of research. And also science is not even the best when it comes to how humans process food right now, imo .Now I'm not in the discourse so obviously this is all my gut feelings about how the world works, but for me (for no one else) I really just need my instincts to tell me things. Anyway, I'm just saying that even doing research would be difficult, and it's a huge project, you'd actually have to be in the field and have lots of time, you know? That is, if you wanted to prove something.

I believe though that different people have different body types and need different diets. I can tell that when I eat certain foods they make me feel differently than when other people eat those same foods. Different people crave different foods, etc. are missing different things in their diet (even from eating the same foods as each other). So it seems like it's all pretty complex and there is no one rihgt way to do it.

Anyway, I hope that once I'm out of school and living on my own and getting an income again I can really do something about my diet. I unfortunately don't know where to start though. I just buy the same old crap because I never learned to cook or anything.


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## Alston (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi kathy903,
I am using raw food since I joined gym 6 months before to reduce extra weight.
In the beginning I felt I could go with veg diet for a month but later I add nuts, tuna fish and skinless chicken in my diet to make it complete and tasty.


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

I would counsel you look into the differences foods have raw and cooked. Some foods have greater benefits cooked (tomatoes and carrots for one, with carrots the antioxidant content rises in storage after cooking). Also look up cooking methods that don't kill off any nutrition value in whatever you're cooking (like vegetables). Steaming is a good one, microwaving is not.


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## angus (Dec 18, 2010)

The closest I have come is when I worked at a japanese restraunt, I was doing a split shift so I pretty much ate sushi and sashimi for breakfast lunch and dinner, that was the healthiest I have ever been in my life.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

thanks for all the info really u told me better things than i found on my own!!! 

i am on first day of raw food diet.. this week its all fruit then adding veg to it then week after that nuts, bread etc. i am coming off a week long water fast so thats why if ur wondering lol. had watermelon today - was deeeelicious  a little pure orange juice is nice too. i take my vitamins btw incase anybodys eyebrows are raising haha.
crystalline ur info is really good i will def research.. 100% raw is impossible for me so it would be good to know whats best for what


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

Bread is baked, therefore isn't raw. I still say it's wasted effort for zero benefit.


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## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

I find this raw thing to be quite bizarre but I'm open to new ideas. Given the crazy amount of adjustment one needs to make and how hard it is to plan each meal I just can't be bothered unless there is actual scientific proof. I know a guy who has been full to partial raw vegan for some time now and he is pretty weird in all respects including physical. at one point he had to stop the raw thing because he dropped dramatically in weight. He believes in things that are totally unproven and that I have tried to test with hope that it would work and found to be bogus. So even I, while eager to find new things that alter "normal" value systems, cannot get excited about this raw thing...yet...maybe one day there will be evidence...


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## Fortune (Apr 4, 2011)

Going raw is stupid... boring... pointless...


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## josephisaverb (Mar 8, 2011)

Eh, Kathy, don't listen to the haters. I know some raw people and they really are vibrant and healthy. Just make sure you are careful with it -- your body needscompleye nutrition to function optimally, and your body needs to function optimally in order for you to look and feel your best. Just a multi isn't going to cut it...I encourage you to do a lot of research and learn from other's mistakes. 

Good luck and I hope you succeed! PM me if you have any q's or need support, like I said earlier I went raw for about 2 months a year or two ago. It's tough, but I'd do it again if I were in a position to.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

i thought this thread was going to be about a completely different type of going raw, ngl


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## MrShyAndTimid (Jun 28, 2010)

au Lait said:


> i thought this thread was going to be about a completely different type of going raw, ngl


Haha. I did too. :blank


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

^lol glad I'm not the only one


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## Lachlan (Jul 3, 2008)

hey Kathy
A couple of practical things I've notcied so far that probably seem obvious.
I can increase the variety of food I eat in a day (variety supposedly is good?) just by having less of each kind. (rather than just a whole apple, half an apple and half a pear. etc)
Grating, chopping, juicing, grinding food allows mixing of flavours. I like berries and bannana by themselves, but I also like frozen berries blended with frozen bannana (it makes this ice-cream like stuff)

Also, (btw, I don't have a masticating juicer, they are rather pricy compared to the normal rotating type juicers and blenders, but the masticating ones supposedly leave more goodness in the food) juicing can be a great way of getting some elements of the food in required doses, obviously because its much more concentrated. Its like orange juice, I think there is more vitamin C in a cup of juice that an orange?


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## A Certain Ratio (Apr 10, 2011)

Although I don't know much about the raw diet thing I, as a vegan I can honestly say it's a completely healthy diet for me and many others.

Duke of Prunes, your labelling of vegans as fanatics was....amusing I guess. Admittedly, some vegan activists are in peoples faces but like all "extremists" it's just a small minority. Although being vegan requires a little extra thinking about what you eat and how often, it does not require "careful calculations". Just a bit of common sense  Plus, it's gotten easier and easier to be vegan in recent years (better labelling, vegan restaurants etc.). If you want scientific evidence on the benefits of a vegan diet, "The China Study" is a must-read. 

Also, you just have to look at the fact that the western world has the highest per capita meat consumption globally and we aren't exactly in optimum health now are we? There's many factors of course but high meat consumption is definitely one of the causes. There's many vegan athletes who are great ambassadors for the diet including olympians e.g Carl Lewis and combat athletes such as MMA fighter Mac Danzig. Mike friggin Tyson has been vegan for a while now  

Not trying to preach at all but your assumptions were unfounded. 

Kathy903 - goodluck with your diet but just make sure you've done your research. It is lot easier to become deficient in some nutrients when on a raw diet so just be careful. And make sure you get enough calories! Cucumbers are great but you need some calorie rich foods. Nuts and seeds are great for protein, essential fats and oils. Avacados are great too. Make sure you are getting sufficient iron, B-12 and iodine. And a good omega balance. I wouldn't advise eating raw beans though


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## Lachlan (Jul 3, 2008)

^you can sprout raw beans


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## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

I think lacto-vegetarianism is the best in terms of health combined with convenience and ethics but I don't know much about it. I think someone else mentioned that every diet has some pros and cons. I know some vegans are quite healthy though. As for the raw issue, is there any scientific evidence that it's better? I am just curious.


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## A Certain Ratio (Apr 10, 2011)

^^ I've heard of sprouting but it seems like a bit of an hassle! I may try it at least once though just to see what it's like.

^ Personally I don't regard the dairy industry as ethical. In many ways it's worse to be a dairy cow than a regular cow harvested for meat. I won't go into it here but there's plenty of info online if you want to find out. I think the documentary "Earthlings" is very informative for people who have any interest in how their food gets to their plate (narrated by Joaquin Pheonix, who is another vegan).

Also, theres a documentary that will be out this year called "Got the facts on milk? (or "The Milk Documentary"). I've not seen it yet but it looks very interesting. There's a trailer on facebook and it looks like it's going to be a very informative film based on hard facts (although obviously coming from an anti-dairy slant - but facts are facts).


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## Daktoria (Sep 21, 2010)

Plants deserve more rights than animals.

'nuf said. Be a meatatarian.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Just to re-iterate, I think every diet out there (even the alternatives) have potential pitfalls; vegan, raw vegan, paleo what ever.

Here's an interesting article from an ex-raw vegan - you're often going to get a much better view point of the downsides of something from those against rather than for:

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/3484206816/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-erim-bilgin

And here's an entire site dedicated to raw food trouble shooting (just so you don't think I'm totally one sided!) The author eats mainly raw vegan, but has added in a small amount of raw animal products (sushi & eggs) to make it more viable for her in the long term:

http://rawfoodsos.com/


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

A Certain Ratio said:


> Although I don't know much about the raw diet thing I, as a vegan I can honestly say it's a completely healthy diet for me and many others.
> 
> Duke of Prunes, your labelling of vegans as fanatics was....amusing I guess. Admittedly, some vegan activists are in peoples faces but like all "extremists" it's just a small minority. Although being vegan requires a little extra thinking about what you eat and how often, it does not require "careful calculations". Just a bit of common sense  Plus, it's gotten easier and easier to be vegan in recent years (better labelling, vegan restaurants etc.). If you want scientific evidence on the benefits of a vegan diet,* "The China Study"* is a must-read.
> 
> ...


Lo Ratio, let me just preface this post by stating I'm not 100% sold on vegan diets myself . But I'm always open to rethinking my opinions if someone put's up a good case 

Can I probe into a few points that you made?

How long have you been vegan? And do you get regular blood tests (in particular for vitamin D and B12 levels)

You bring up the China Study - which gets alot of praise in certain anti-animal product diet circles. Have you been aware of the dressing down of the study by Denise Minger of the last year or so? 
She's actually mainly raw vegan herself - just adds some raw egg or sushi to her palette from time to time.
http://rawfoodsos.com/

And yes, you do make a valid point that we in the west are eating terribly and are suffering for it. Too much meat? possibly. But there's also widespread consumption of sugar, PUFA's, refined flour, fructose and refined oils. Which are the biggest culprits? I dare say we may never know (it would probably take some cold hard lab data on human subjects carried over a suitable time frame imo)


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## A Certain Ratio (Apr 10, 2011)

Paper Samurai said:


> Lo Ratio, let me just preface this post by stating I'm not 100% sold on vegan diets myself . But I'm always open to rethinking my opinions if someone put's up a good case
> 
> Can I probe into a few points that you made?
> 
> ...


Hi  Of course you can.

(Sorry, I tried to quote your post point by point but I couldn't figure out how to!)

I have been vegan for 3 months. Not long I know, but it's been great and it's a lifelong lifestyle for me. I haven't had any blood tests. I am rarely ill so I haven't seen a doctor in years. If I started to get symptoms potentially caused by a dietary deficiency, I would definitely arrange an appointment asap. But I don't think that will happen. I did a lot of research before becoming vegan so I know what I need and where to get it. I have fortified cereal and soymilk everyday (same as when omnivorous) which technically gets me over 150% of the RDA for B12 alone. I don't take supplements and didn't intend to. However, I have read about the uncertainty of B12 absorption from fortified foods so I am seriously considering B12 supplements. Vit D.....I haven't been going out in the sun much I'm afraid. Some foods I eat are fortified with vit D but I'm definitely going to have to work on getting outside more. But everything else is covered. Plus my omega balance is better than before (the vast majority of people have way too much O6). Maybe after a year or so of being vegan I will arrange a blood test, hopefully to validate my health but more importantly as a safety measure - why risk it eh?

The way I see it is there is nothing wrong with the vegan diet per se. But there are "bad vegans" who are either ill-informed or reckless with their health. And of course these are the people who are used as examples to deride veganism when there are countless good examples of healthy vegans who have been known to out-compete omnivorous rivals at the highest levels.

I should admit that I haven't actually read the China Study :blush But I've heard it being recommended so many times and it's so often claimed to be the definitive concentration of evidence that I suggested it to the poster who demanded such evidence. It was merely a suggestion, I didn't try to discuss the findings like I had read it or anything. Swiftly moving on.....

Like I said, there are many factors causing the endemic health problems in many developed countries. But the link between colon cancer and red meat consumption has been acknowledged for a long time now, as well as the effect of animal fats on cholesterol levels and heart disease. But to claim meat is the sole cause of diet-related disease would be stupid of course.

One thing I haven't made clear is that I am not actually against eating meat (we wouldn't be here if our ancestors hadn't hunted and eaten animals), nor am I denying that most animal foods are nutritious and like most things, healthy in moderation. If I had to eat meat to survive I wouldn't hesitate. But I live in a situation (i.e. the developed world in the 21st century) that allows me to thrive without the need for an animal-based diet and I'm no longer prepared to accept unnecessary suffering as a consequence of convenience and luxury. That's how I see it but I ain't going to judge people who don't see it that way. Everyone I know is omnivorous (but I don't exactly know many people so the chances are pretty slim ).

Sorry for this essay and for going off-topic btw!


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

heh, I love reading essays :b (and I shall now return the favour)

You seem pretty well read I've gotta say, which is the best way to go about any form of eating plan. In my experience though, when you are restricting certain things out, it helps to get some bloodwork done from time to time and/or be totally honest about how you are feeling to yourself. (The latter can be tricky when ethics are involved in some cases)

I admire your honesty too about not reading the China Study.  However just be careful when referencing it. Like I was saying before, it gets heaps of praise from those against animal products, but not even a mention anywhere else. (there is a reason for this that I will go into shortly) Most hardcore vegans invoke this as if it were the ultimate poker hand in any discussion without knowing the full details:

Theoretical example :b


> *Person*: I have some doubts that completely eradicating animal products from my diet is a good thing.
> *Hardcore Vegan*: CHINA STUDY ******!
> *Person*: ...wut?


The China Study is as it sounds - a research project based in China linking increased animal product consumption with higher incidence of mortality (death). HOWEVER... it has a bad tendency to cherry pick data that it likes in only certain parts of China. And never mind that when people generally speaking get richer and more industrialised as a culture they eat more meat yes, but they also stop exercising, start smoking, eat junk and work in polluted environments. Is it purely the meat that's at fault here?

More over, can we use a correlation based study (one variable going up/down in relation to another) as a means of ascertaining categoric fact? That's what the Author and staunch Vegan activist T.Colin Campbell wants us to believe yes. But honestly now really? With correlation you can only make hypotheses, which in turn can then be tested in a structured and strict labratory like environment. Then and only then, if you can prove the theory with scientific and crucially repeatable tests you would have gained some sort of recognition and credibility. (it will then probably take a couple of decades for it to become accepted lol even if a 100% incidence rate :b)

Let me give a (mildly ridiculous but related) analogy. A study is conducted and states that the more Apple products a population has, the more immunity it has to wild Tiger attacks. The data is collected and it checks out. Do we now recommend certain hotspots to invest in over priced ipods and Mac Book pro's ? :b No. *Because correlation does not equal causation*! The real answer is that Western populations have more apple products than Africa and parts of Asia, plus they don't have indigenous Tiger populations anyway.

This is why the scientific community, the mainstream and pretty much everyone shuns it. It's doesn't prove anything. It's just one man's well intentioned but ultimately badly flawed vanity project.


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## A Certain Ratio (Apr 10, 2011)

I completely understand what you’re saying. When/if I read the book I will definitely have your comments in mind and look at it from an unbiased/critical perspective. Hopefully I would have drawn the same conclusions (I’m a masters student). Although data analysis is one of my weaknesses :roll

Thanks for the heads up!  And that’s the last time I recommend something based on other people’s opinions, totally not my style (well apart from more trivial stuff such as movies etc.).


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## Wander (Apr 16, 2010)

Bringing this thread back ya'll.

I went raw for 30 days and during those 30 days I believe I stumbled upon the cure to my social anxiety. I will post some details of the benefits that raw gave me.
Before going raw, up until the day before, I was house bound and too tired to get out of bed. Very angry, very depressed. I decided to try this raw thing..
The first 2 weeks of raw, I had major detox symptoms. Sometimes I would fall asleep randomly, I got a fever every night, I had many emotional memories hit me in the face like I was just experiencing them for the first time (emotional detox) and it allowed me to let go of TONS of toxins that must have been in my body for so long. But even while I was having these detox symptoms, my anxiety faded every day. I remember on day 5 feeling so unusually comfortable on the bus to the farmers market, it made me elated. And then about 2 weeks in I began to feel moments of euphoria for no apparent reason. My mental focus became razor sharp too.

Then the 3rd week there was a breakthrough and no longer did I have any detox symptoms. Suddenly I had unlimited energy, REAL energy that was completely stable all day and never fully wore out. My fearfulness virtually disappeared within 3 weeks. I felt compelled to challenge fear but when I tried to challenge fear, fear had become a feeling of excitement, and the horrible feeling of dread was gone! So I started doing more exposures, but in the end they weren't exposures, because my anxiety seemed to not be there anymore! I went to a social anxiety meetup group and told them blankly, I don't think I need to be here right now, my social anxiety is gone! I found a new deep interest for conversation that I can't even describe, going from hating conversation and being too tired and anxious to even try to care about what another person is saying to intense interest in each word my grandmother said over the phone when she gave me a call. I began to go outside every day without a second thought. I picked up a very positive vibe and no negative vibe could hurt me. My younger sister began to tell me so often how positive and social I was all of a sudden! I felt elated each day to wake up and had amazing energy throughout every day. I remember sometimes I would go out with family, come back and go to the gym with my sister, and then clean the house and dance/sing to music until I went to bed.

In the end I fell off of being raw for a really stupid reason. I felt like I NEEDED friends to talk to, I wanted it so badly and felt so completely safe with the idea of socialization that not having it 'right now' seemed unbearable. I had so much social energy and my old lifestyle of sitting in my room on the computer all day did nothing for me, I saw the truth in it and it made me afraid that I would have to work hard to make a lot of changes to my lifestyle. Suddenly, I was so positive and so energized and so happy that I couldn't find somebody who was equally energized and joyful to keep up with me! In fear I ditched the raw lifestyle thinking that it was easier to just numb myself and slot myself in my old lifestyle rather than change everything.

Social anxiety returned with a vengeance, as well as the depression, and I can tell you that I now thoroughly believe that both are linked to toxins (heavy metals, candida overgrowth, other environmental toxins) because for me going raw for 30 days showed me life without social fears or depression. I'm not saying that this will work for all of you but for me, it DID. And for some of you, perhaps it will too...

I have trouble going back to raw alone because I'm still afraid that it will open up a lot of doors and make for a lot of changes.* Is there anybody on here that would like to partake in a 30 day challenge again with me*? We can talk about the experiences and troubles and thoughts and reassure ourselves of this direction.

If anybody is interested in trying this 30 day raw challenge with a partner contact me. It is a great experience to cleanse the mind body and soul and see what the clean and pure you really is like. I know the basics of raw if you have no idea what it's about, contact me if so


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

What exactly does it 'cleanse' the body of?

There's no credible evidence for this 'candida overgrowth' rubbish either. I made a long post about that ages ago in this section, but in short, if you had a systemic yeast infection (aka it's in your blood aka septicaemia), you'd be dead by now, haven't you heard of sepsis? Unless of course you had HIV, nuked bone marrow awaiting a transplant, were on heavy-duty immunosuppressants (yes there's some contaminants or 'omg toxins' that are immunosuppressants, but none of them are powerful enough in the doses you'd be exposed to) or had some bizarre congenital disorder, but you'd know about that because you'd still be dying from the billions of infections setting up camp all over your body without any resistance.

Good for you if it's helping you though.


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## samsonite (Apr 25, 2011)

Raw food by itself isn't a complete solution, but it is great. Obviously there is more to eating well than just eating raw food. Most guys I see who are into pure raw food look like ****. No muscles, frail--the raw food didn't cause them to look like that, but a vegan lifestyle.



kathy903 said:


> I heard it can clear up skin, give you crazy amounts of energy, clean your body right out fresh, and help you lose any stubborn extra pounds. Sounds all around good. I have been vegetarian for couple years now, tried vegan for a few months but didn't feel well bc I wasn't making sure I planned my diet healthily but I have been writing down some raw vegan recipes and they sound really good! I think I know how to balance my meals and nutrient intake this time around so I'm going to go for at least a 75% raw nutrition.
> Anyone here eat raw?
> You can also be raw and omnivore, there's even raw carnivores too and of course vegetarians.. just throwing that out there lol.
> 
> Today I've had half a cucumber dipped in soy sauce (which I know isn't raw.. Bla bla w.e .. remember 75% lmao) and some white kidney beans mixed with mustard mmm (mustard also isn't raw.. WHATEVAAAAA).. and I feel loads of energy. I'm down to get down and green with mother nature!!!!!!! :clap


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## IsThereAComputerOption (Apr 15, 2011)

Duke of Prunes said:


> What exactly does it 'cleanse' the body of?
> 
> There's no credible evidence for this 'candida overgrowth' rubbish either. I made a long post about that ages ago in this section, but in short, if you had a systemic yeast infection (aka it's in your blood aka septicaemia), you'd be dead by now, haven't you heard of sepsis? Unless of course you had HIV, nuked bone marrow awaiting a transplant, were on heavy-duty immunosuppressants (yes there's some contaminants or 'omg toxins' that are immunosuppressants, but none of them are powerful enough in the doses you'd be exposed to) or had some bizarre congenital disorder, but you'd know about that because you'd still be dying from the billions of infections setting up camp all over your body without any resistance.
> 
> Good for you if it's helping you though.


I find this comment agreeable, correct, funny and intelligent all at the same time.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Wander said:


> Bringing this thread back ya'll.
> 
> I went raw for 30 days and during those 30 days I believe I stumbled upon the cure to my social anxiety. I will post some details of the benefits that raw gave me.
> Before going raw, up until the day before, I was house bound and too tired to get out of bed. Very angry, very depressed. I decided to try this raw thing...


Wander, please be careful with a raw food diet. When I was eating that way myself, I too felt great initially. But I now attest this to reduced inflammation, rather than so called toxicity. Our modern lifestyles basically invoke a highly inflammatory state - and this concept actually has scientific backing to it unlike raw veganism which just brushes everything under the 'toxins' carpet.

I'm only saying this by the way, because many people (including myself) have tried out the raw food diet and faced serious problems in the medium/long term. Short term, everything is peachy - which is due to the lowering of inflammation. However it's a so called 'Honeymoon period' that doesn't tend to last.

That being said, you can still get the same benefits from dietary manipulation on other much safer, much more logical and much less socially isolating eating plans. (I myself am on a high carb, semi- vegetarian diet and eat meat sparingly. Feel free to ask if you want to know more details)

However, if you really still want to continue with Raw eating, then please check out my previous post detailing the pro's and con's of the diet.

And check out this link -it gives a more honest, albeit slightly harsh view of raw veganism than you would get in a hardcore RV site:

http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2011/04/80-10-10-diet-811rv.html

Feel free to ask me any questions, I'm quite passionate and geeky when it comes to this subject :b


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## uffie (May 11, 2010)

raw chicken yummm


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## sas111 (Oct 20, 2010)

Wander said:


> Bringing this thread back ya'll.
> 
> I went raw for 30 days and during those 30 days I believe I stumbled upon the cure to my social anxiety. I will post some details of the benefits that raw gave me.
> Before going raw, up until the day before, I was house bound and too tired to get out of bed. Very angry, very depressed. I decided to try this raw thing..
> ...


I'm in.

Except I won't go for 30 days, I shall go till summer. I've this before, & loved the effects.


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## Wander (Apr 16, 2010)

Vanilllabb said:


> I'm in.
> 
> Except I won't go for 30 days, I shall go till summer. I've this before, & loved the effects.


Awesome!

:teeth

Let me know how it goes and how your social anxiety is on it 

I'm starting today and am going 100 days.

I'll update perhaps, every time I feel a dramatic shift in the way that I feel (social anxious wise, conversational wise, depression wise)

And a brief update on me now so that there is a vivid before/after if changes occur, just in case, because maybe if this works (again) then this will inspire somebody to try it. And maybe if it doesn't work, it will aid to knowledge

"before" (if there is an after)
Currently, very introverted. Very quiet, but I feel like I do want to talk, but unable to. Very horrible body image, assume that all people think I'm utterly repulsive. 30 pounds over the weight I wish to be, and this makes me very self conscious. Not able to find words in conversation. Don't even seem to have enough on-topic-thoughts to start or maintain a conversation... Don't have enough energy to even have social energy. Don't have any spare energy. Talking to one person usually will tire me out for days. Going for a walk will too, sadly. Unable to appreciate little beautiful things in life (apathy). Depression, pretty hopeless. Don't feel like myself. Revert to a 5 year old in social situations out of nerves! Lastly, unable to complete assignments due to fear of doing it wrong.

So let's see if that changes over the next 100 days...


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## Revenwyn (Apr 11, 2011)

kathy903 said:


> I heard it can clear up skin, give you crazy amounts of energy, clean your body right out fresh, and help you lose any stubborn extra pounds. Sounds all around good. I have been vegetarian for couple years now, tried vegan for a few months but didn't feel well bc I wasn't making sure I planned my diet healthily but I have been writing down some raw vegan recipes and they sound really good! I think I know how to balance my meals and nutrient intake this time around so I'm going to go for at least a 75% raw nutrition.
> Anyone here eat raw?
> You can also be raw and omnivore, there's even raw carnivores too and of course vegetarians.. just throwing that out there lol.
> 
> Today I've had half a cucumber dipped in soy sauce (which I know isn't raw.. Bla bla w.e .. remember 75% lmao) and some white kidney beans mixed with mustard mmm (mustard also isn't raw.. WHATEVAAAAA).. and I feel loads of energy. I'm down to get down and green with mother nature!!!!!!! :clap


I grew up raw.

Thanks to not getting fat in my diet my body developed the starvation bloat that children in Africa get, my hair was falling out, my skin dry and cracky. I didn't get my period until I left my family and went off the raw food diet at the age of 26.

Oh yes, I was also a size 22 and since I started eating a relatively normal diet I have dropped to a 12.

I'm not saying it's totally terrible but don't stay on it long term, and if you feel ill on it don't continue. That's all.


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## sas2012solar (Sep 26, 2011)

being outside and eating raw will make you want to join the literal heaven on earth that already exists

in fact i think you can step into heaven.. and be not only free.. but ascended!!


stepping back, civilized foods make you dull/civilized to fit into our economic/societal/cultural/political model/environment/society

i bought 2 roma tomatoes and 1 bunch of bananas for 2 bucks or less

the energetic (spiritual/mental/physical/emotional), is unparalleled.

makes you more pro-social, heart centered, true-hydrated, psychospiritually charged up, vigilant, physically relaxed, spiritually more protected, you attract the truest positive vibes and naturally repel negative vibes..

for instance i ate these raw foods, was at a coffee shop outside sitting in public eye, and suddenly i just was reborn a bit.. wandered out to the parking lot and there was this shady creepy negative dude sitting in his shaded out black pickup who, i didnt realize but knew on some level had been watching me for a long time in parking lot

for whatever reason i liteeally walked over there, and the dude totally left and i realized the power i had, and like simpky pushed my energy toward him as he was leaving and walked him away

i wasnt even conscious.what was happening until i realized he suddenly scooted away when i came near as i walked out there


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## sas2012solar (Sep 26, 2011)

point being... in my experiences with live/raw food... they have been pretty amazing


when you combine being out in nature walking around with it, they combine strongly

there is a huge karma component to fruit..

another one of those things you dont think about till it happens later

youll find things you need for free.... opportunities will come your way...

and like the "wanderer", poster in here was saying... its so good you cant hardly accept it


now to take this even further, imagine heaven on earth appeared before your eyes, and all you had to do was "accept", and every worry would vanish.

im talking "EVERY SINGLE" worry

its almost impossible to imagine but not if you catch a.glimpse of heaven..

because we are attached to worrying n fear. 

so basically we are like little children and we wont give up our toys. problems/fear/misery/anxiety

raw food.. live food.. getting into nature

these things can help you see

also weed can too.. 

i dont know how they are related, but marijuana has little orbs that absorb sun radiation), and raw foods are. storehouses of sun radiation too.

i remember one day (story), i smoked a tiny bit of grass while i was outside shirtless/shoeless sitting in the dirt in the early morning.

for whatever reason, between that tiny hit, and being eneegeticalky connected to ground and sun, i kept getting higher and.higher all day. and i didnt smoke anymore. i didnt come down, only rose up as i soaked in the sun..

i mean i think humans are smart enough now and we are getting tired of the world we have created...


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## sas2012solar (Sep 26, 2011)

so point being

totally new experiences in life
get naked (okay i havent been that brave, but shirtless/shoeless works decent :]),

swing on rocka/trees

buy a cloth bag full of fresh tomatoes, apples, whatever you fancy ..

pop out to nature and free your body self mind

its rlly easy its.just between facebook, the air pollution filled cave u live in, the chaos and noise and misery we are surrounded by..

how can we possibly know... KNOW.. u have to connect.. with a part of u that knows

YOU ARE A SPECIAL PERSON

u deserve happiness


lol..


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

sas2012solar said:


> stepping back, civilized foods make you dull/civilized to fit into our economic/societal/cultural/political model/environment/society


:lol no.

Typical 'OMG SOCIETY DUMBZ US DOWN AND FORCES PEOPLE TO CONFORM LOL IM A NON-CONFORMIST' words here...


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