# Nootropics (aka Piracetam)



## Restless Mind

Ever since I discovered Phenibut, I've been on the look-out for other promising nootropic drugs. Whilst doing some research on Wikipedia, I read that Piracetam was, and still is, considered the first and foremost nootropic drug created in a lab. It's a cerebral function regulating drug which is claimed to be able to enhance cognition as well as slow down brain aging. Lab technicians consider it the "standard" nootropic, and compare all the other ones to it.

So, I did some more research and it seems that Piracetam is extremely safe (one scientist claimed it was 'as safe as salt'), yet effective and inexpensive. There are other "racetams" that are either faster-acting, longer-lasting, or just more potent, but it's probably best to start out with the original.

One really interesting thing about it is that scientists claim it enhances cross-hemispheric communication - meaning it allows not-so-creative people become creative, and vice versa. I think this could be very beneficial for most SAers, and I'm looking forward to trying it.

I'll post my experiences as soon as I can. Until then, feed your brain with more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam

http://www.bulknutrition.com/i41_Piracetam.html

http://www.erowid.org/smarts/piracetam/piracetam.shtml


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## Restless Mind

*re: Piracetam*

Ok, so I did some _more_ research (it's like an addiction!) and I found something that sounds even more promising: Picamilon.

From the information I have gathered, Picamilon is very similar to Phenibut - in that it crosses the blood brain barrier easliy, and is mainly used for its anxiolytic properties. It has a low toxicity and little to no side-effects.

So, being the mind-altering, consciousness-expanding, nootropian experimenter I am, I decided to order it via online website. The price wasn't too heavy on the wallet, either.

I've got a lot to try these upcoming weeks. And I will report my results for your own benefit.

Here's some info on Picamilon:



> *This Russian Drug Picamilon Rapidly Penetrates The Blood-Brain Barrier, Producing A Beneficial Effect on The Brain's Metabolism*
> by A.L. Karayev
> 
> The chemical modification of widely used vitamins is one of the fundamental trends in the search for new pharmaceutical agents. The main advantages of vitamin-like drugs are the broad spectrums of action, the easy penetration through cellular membranes, the low toxicity, and the rare side effects. The broad spectrum of action of these agents is connected not only with their influence on unspecific metabolic processes, but also on various neurotransmitter systems.
> 
> In experiments, Picamilon decreases cerebral blood-vessel tone and increases intracranial circulation rate. The drug exceeds in force and duration the effects of GABA and niacin alone. In small doses, Picamilon shows tranquilizing action to prevent the negative effects of emotional stress. As with diazepam, it depresses motivative aggression. The tranquilizing influence of the drug on negative emotions expressed through the hypothalamic system has been proved. * Picamilon is characterized by a tranquilizing effect, without a sedative component but with elements of stimulant action.*
> 
> The drug effectively counteracts stress and lowers the depressing influence of ethanol on the behavior of animals. *It rapidly penetrates through the blood-brain barrier and improves the functional state of the brain by producing a beneficial effect on its metabolism.*
> 
> Picamilon has been found to have low toxicity during experiments on animals. The median lethal dose is more than 10 gram per kilogram of body weight and more than 6 g/kg intravenously. The low toxicity was demonstrated during six months of chronic toxicity testing when the drug displayed no allergenic, carcinogenic, teratogenic or embryotoxic action.
> 
> Independent researchers in 16 medical centers in Russia carried out a clinical trial with Picamilon in a great number of patients. Picamilon was prescribed two or three times a day in doses of 20 to 50 mg. The course of therapy ranged from two weeks to three months.
> 
> Significant Neurologic Improvement
> 
> Picamilon proved to be quite effective in patients with acute brain syndrome. On the second or third day after taking the medicine, the patients showed significant neurologic improvement. The positive dynamics of the cerebral signs were noted. The effect increased when taking the drug, especially during the second and third week of treatment. In this case, objective methods of examination were used to document the increase of cerebral circulation, and the normalization of cerebrovascular resistance.
> 
> Picamilon was effective in patients with mild-to-moderate impairment during subacute and early convalescent periods. It improved emotional conditions, speech and memory. Patients showed increased general activity, and better work and social adaptation.
> 
> Picamilon stimulated physical and psychic rehabilitation from various asthenic (weakening) disorders due to mental and somatic pathology. *Picamilon was effective in patients with neurotic disorders in which the leading signs were asthenic-asthenodepression, and asthenohypochondriac disturbances that accompany fear, anxiety, fatigue, emotional and vegetative instability, and sleep disturbances.*
> 
> *Picamilon reduced anxiety and hyperesthesia (whereby normal touch creates pain) without sedative effects, which improved sleep.
> According to the majority of researchers, usage of Picamilon employed as a means of correcting neuroses, manic-depressive syndrome, involutional depression and schizophrenia enabled doctors to decrease doses of psychotropic drugs used in the treatment of these conditions. *The combining of Picamilon with conventional treatments accelerated reduction of the psychopathological signs when compared to conventional treatments alone.
> 
> Improvement in A Week
> 
> Picamilon also was effective in patients with psycho-organic syndromes including cerebral atherosclerosis, brain injury from physical trauma, and toxic lesions of the brain. The condition of these patients took a turn for the better by the end of the first week.
> 
> The effectiveness of Picamilon in patients with migraine headache was studied. It has been established that the drug has a pronounced effect on painful hemicrania-pain or headache in one side of the head-by decreasing its intensity and mitigating or stopping any accompanying symptoms. In persons suffering from chronic alcoholism, Picamilon alleviated withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> Alcohol Withdrawal Aided
> 
> The effectiveness of Picamilon was compared with other similar drugs, including piracetam, phenazepam, diazepam, vinpocetine, xanthinol nicotinate, and papaverin. * It was noted that the psycho-stimulant effect of Picamilon was greater than piracetam.* After taking Picamilon the patients felt significantly better. Giddiness and tremor disappeared quicker.
> 
> Most patients preferred Picamilon to piracetam. It normalized the behavior of patients faster and more completely than piracetam. In another study, Picamilon acted faster than vinpocetine in treating withdrawal symptoms in patients suffering from chronic alcoholism.
> 
> According to clinical studies, Picamilon is recommended for the treatment of cerebrovascular diseases in subacute and early convalescent periods, as well as for transient brain damage, neurocirculatory dystonia, and chronic cerebral circulatory insufficiency. The drug is recommended as a tranquilizer possessing no sedative action. Picamilon can be prescribed in cases of asthenic (weakening) syndrome and disorders due to various psychotic and somatic pathology. It is used in the treatment of depressive disorders in the elderly and as therapy for senile psychoses. I*t also is recommended for the prevention and treatment of anxiety and stress.* In persons suffering from chronic alcoholism, Picamilon may be used to relieve the symptoms of withdrawal.


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## sprinter

*re: Piracetam*

That does sound interesting, especially the Picamilon. I have experience with Phenibut and it definitely was the most potent non prescription remedy I have ever tried. Unfortunately my digestive system and phenibut don't get along very well.

I'm glad you plan on keeping us posted. I would love to find something that's as powerful or more so than Phenibut, but that won't make me nauseous.


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## r2c2

*re: Piracetam*

I had oxiracetam, definitely makes you think more and quicker. 
Problem is the stuff is expensive, so I wouldn't be able to use it on a regular basis.

edit: Just wanted to mention all the --racetams have a mild tranquilizing effect so I highly recommend them for fellow SAS students as it produces an alpha (relaxed but alert) state of mind. Being as the 'racetams are cyclical derivatives of GABA this makes sense.


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## bent

cool...i didn't even know these existed. i would try them if they were affordable. i guess i would find them at health food stores? and they are expensive apparently...too bad.


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## Restless Mind

Time for an update.

So, my current nootropic stack consists of phenibut, piracetam, picamilon, and oxiracetam. Phenibut is still the most potent and longest lasting in my opinion. I found that phenibut readily dissolves in sweet, carbonated beverages; I've been using Sprite. The picamilon is a little tricky; sometimes I can tell a difference, sometimes I can't. And I'm still trying to figure out the best way to take it for optimum absorption. Piracetam and oxiracetam pretty much give me the same effect, except it takes 3 capsules of piracetam (each 800mg) for me to achieve the same effect as one capsule (800mg) of oxiracetam. They're high is short-lived - indicating a short half-life, but they get the job done for the time being.

My usual routine goes like this: 1/2 teaspoon or less of phenibut in Sprite after first meal of the day. Then depending on how I feel, I'll take 200mg of picamilon, and/or 3 capsules of piracetam as needed, and/or 1 capsule of oxiracetam as needed - all with liquid and on an empty stomach. Currently I'm on approx. 1/2 teaspoon of phenibut and 3 capsules of piracetam and feeling pretty relaxed and alert.

I've read that picamilion, and all the racetams work great synergistically. So, I wouldn't worry about possible interactions (unless you're already on an SSRI or MAOI); I've experienced no side-effects at all. And I even read a study stating their effects improve over time. So far, so good.

Here's a great website for buying nootropics: http://smart-nutrition.net/brain.html

I got my picamilon from there, but I got the oxi and ptam on eBay. You might want to check out two of their products containing a mixture of nootropics - Get Smart and Pay Attention. They both sound promising. I'm surprised they don't sell phenibut.



sprinter said:


> I would love to find something that's as powerful or more so than Phenibut, but that won't make me nauseous.


I've heard good things about Pramiracetam. Supposed to be 8-30x stronger than Piracetam, and much more pontent at lower dosages. I'm having trouble finding an online retailer though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramiracetam


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## bumblebtuna

*re: Piracetam*

Hey Restless Mind,
You might also want to try supplementing your nootropic stack with a (acetyl)choline enhancing agent, like AlphaGPC. You'll be able to find that on bulknutrition too. (BN is a great site, btw)

I used nootropics for a while, they were great. For me, they lost their effectiveness after a few months, unfortunately. Piracetem + AlphaGPC was an excellent mix.


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## Restless Mind

*re: Piracetam*

Thanks...I'll look into that. But as for right now, I'm very much looking forward to the Pramiracetam I just ordered.

I'll update as soon as I try it.


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## Maike

Thanks heaps for posting your findings restless mind, I am going to try some of these out


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## Maike

restless mind I was looking at the smart nutrition site...do you think the 'No Worries' formula would be worth a try? I've never had any of these types of supplements before. Also, where were you able to order your Pramiracetam from? I wouldn't mind giving that one bash either, thanks!


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## Restless Mind

Maike said:


> restless mind I was looking at the smart nutrition site...do you think the 'No Worries' formula would be worth a try? I've never had any of these types of supplements before. Also, where were you able to order your Pramiracetam from? I wouldn't mind giving that one bash either, thanks!


I totally forgot they had a 'No Worries' formula. Yeah, it's worth try. I don't see how it could hurt; it's got Phenibut. You might have to take two or three capsules at once to get the desired effect though (I noticed that the mg's of each ingredient is fairly low).

Here's where I got the Pramiracetam: http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/
It's the only US online retailer I could find. All the other ones are based in the UK it seems.


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## Maike

Cool thanks for that, I live in Australia so I might try and see if anywhere local stocks the stuff to avoid shipping costs but I'm really keen to try the stuff


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## Restless Mind

Wow, so I've never experienced the full effects of picamilon until I took it with some ginger brew (non-alcoholic). Within seconds I was overwhelmed with laughter, and I'm actually laughing my *** off as I type! I took one pill (100mg) and I feel absolutely great. Everything is clear, I'm able to focus, I'm not overly self-conscious, and I don't feel sedaded (yet). Wohoo!


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## Maike

Thats funny! How long did it last for? Does it make you sleepy?


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## Restless Mind

*re: Piracetam*

The euphoria lasted for a couple hours. I've been taking one pill (100mg) each day since then, and haven't experienced any euphoria. However, I've been steady calm and more optimistic these past few days. It's strange, picamilon seems to function like an SSRI - in that I can feel it's effects throughout the day. And it doesn't make me drowsy.

On another note, I tried that Pramiracetam stuff...WOW. Talk about relaxing. Absolutely no anxiety, and complete clear-mindfulness. Now I understand why they call it the king of nootropics. It's great for performance anxiety and it functions is similar to a benzo - in that it tranquilizes you for a couple of hours.


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## Eimaj

*re: Piracetam*

Where do you get all this stuff?
And is it safe to take with an SSRI?


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## Maike

restless mind you sound like you've turned yourself into a lab rat!

I can't wait to try these, have to stop putting it off...!


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## Restless Mind

Maike said:


> restless mind you sound like you've turned yourself into a lab rat!


What can I say? I like to experiment. 

Time for an update:

I had to stop taking the picamilon due to an allergic reaction. At first I thought the itching and skin eruptions were because I switched laundry detergent, but when I switched back I was still experiencing the same problems. I emailed the online store that sold me the picamilon and he said the only reason I might itch is due to a 'niacin flush' (because picamilon is really just GABA bonded to niacin). But he said flushes should only last 30-60 minutes and that there's probably not even enough niacin in the picamilon to cause a flush. So I figured I'd spare myself the agony and stop. Kinda sucks because picamilon was really good at keeping my anxiety at bay. But don't let my experience discourage you -- my body is just ultra-sensitive and has a way of showing it through the skin.

Moving on, I've started taking phenibut again. Just 1/4 teaspoon dissolved in a carbonated beverage once a day, followed by 3 caps of piracetam, and then _pramir_acetam once a day after meals. Make sure if you take pramiracetam with fat (I use fish oil) because it's fat-soluble (unlike piracetam and oxiracetam).

Speaking of fat, I've started to supplement with Lecithin again...this time for different reasons. I learned that piracetam (and pramiracetam) can possibly increase acetylcholine receptor density in the hippocampus, and generally increases nerve transmissions (especially between hemispheres). And since acetylcholine is one of the primary neurochemicals used to transmit signals between neurons, supplementing with extra choline (lecithin) would be a good way to fuel this increased demand. If you don't, you might end up experiencing a low-grade headache, confusion, and lack of clarity.

That's all for now. Stay tuned next week for: Idebenone (analogue of CoQ10) :lol


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## Restless Mind

*re: Piracetam*

I just started school today and I can happliy say that I experienced NO ANXIETY! I've never walked into a classroom with such ease. My ability to concentrate has drastically improved, I'm extremely relaxed, I have confidence for once, and for the first time in a long time I found myself laughing and talking to strangers. And I owe it all to my combination of nootropics: 1 capsule (600mg) Pramiracetam, 1/4 teaspoon Phenibut, and 3 capsules (2400mg) of piracetam.

People, you don't have to suffer. There is prescription and non-prescription medication that can and _will_ help.


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## Maike

*re: Piracetam*

That's great to hear bout your success!! Keep us up to date with the next one you try out too.


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## Restless Mind

*re: Piracetam*

Idebenone is AWESOME. This stuff is just as good (if not better) than Phenibut. There have been studies done to prove that Idebenone increases serotonin and dopamine levels, too. Right now my stack is: 90mg Idebenone (a small amout goes a loooooong way), 1/4 teaspoon of Phenibut, and Piracetam when needed.

You guys (and girls) seriously need to try my stack. I guarantee it will work!

PEACE


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## Restless Mind

*re: Piracetam*

I forgot to mention that Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALCAR) combined with Alpha Lipolic Acid (ALA) is another great cognitive enhancer. It works similar to Idebenone, but isn't synthetic.


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## afboy143

*re: Piracetam*

So which do you reccomend me buying, piracetam or Pramiracetam ? I take phenibut 2 days a week now and LOVE it. I try not to take it too much to prevent tolerance.

I also noticed you take piracetam and Pramiracetam together, why?


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## Restless Mind

I'd try Piracetam first. Pramiracetam is stronger and longer lasting than Piracetam, but it's also more expensive and less studied. I used to take them together because it would prolong their effects.


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## Maike

Restless Mind
I just wanted to ask you if you know whereabouts in Australia you can get these supplements, you're in the US aren't you? I've done some searches but I can't find any Aus sites that seem to have it so I might just have to order from a US site but I just wondered whether you were in the know or not?

Work is getting unbearable and I really think I should try this stuff out! How has school been going for you?


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## Restless Mind

Maike said:


> Restless Mind
> I just wanted to ask you if you know whereabouts in Australia you can get these supplements, you're in the US aren't you? I've done some searches but I can't find any Aus sites that seem to have it so I might just have to order from a US site but I just wondered whether you were in the know or not?
> 
> Work is getting unbearable and I really think I should try this stuff out! How has school been going for you?


I'm not sure where you can get them in Aus., but you shouldn't have too hard of a time finding ALCAR and ALA at your local health food store. Phenibut and piracetam you'll probably have to order online. But try the ALCAR and ALA -- it might be all you need. 

School is going great (thanks for asking). I love all my classes, my confidence is booming, and I even got myself a girlfriend! She's so cute, I can't wait to see her on Tuesday!

Stay positive,
RM


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## Maike

Aw, that's so fantastic! It's really good to hear your experiences, it gives me hope man!!!!

I'll post some reviews of the stuff once I've tried!


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## afboy143

*re: Piracetam*

How long did you take each supplement and how was tolerance build up? Did you take picomilon everyday?


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## ToEkNeE

*re: Piracetam*

I haven't been having as much trouble with anxiety lately, but just don't have the energy to go up to people and talk with them. I guess I'm more in the depression phase right now. Would you still recommend your stack to me? Or is it somewhat tranqulizing?


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## r2c2

*re: Piracetam*

This **** really works.
This is my daily supplement stack for the past 6 weeks:

Pramiracetam (occasionally aniracetam instead or both ani and pram)
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Huperzine
Alpha GPC
Choline Bitartate
DMAE
B Complex
Fish Oil 
Multivitamin
(jogging 45min 3 times a week)

Concentration/focus => 40% increase
Mood => 25% increase
Anxiety => 70% decrease

Pramiracetam really does wonders, it is by far the best racetam. It comes on slower but it shuts down anxiety and turns up focus for a good 6 hours. Its pretty amazing. I attribute most of the focus increase and anxiety reduction to it. 
I was taking just the choline supplements for a while too and they helped, only stacked together though. 
We'll see how long these last without building up a tolerance.


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## uncomfortablepants

bulknutrition is pretty cheap. http://www.bulknutrition.com/?cPath=128

edit: I just wanted to add that I've tried many nootropics and you should be very skeptical about them. Not that they don't do anything but For anyone with significant anxiety problems, piracetam or most of the others aren't going to do much for anxiety.


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## Restless Mind

*Re: re: Piracetam*



afboy143 said:


> How long did you take each supplement and how was tolerance build up? Did you take picomilon everyday?


It takes around 2 weeks of daily use to build up a tolerance to Phenibut. That's why it's important to find other supplements to cycle with.

Picamilon I took daily for about a week. It worked great at reducing anxiety, but I had to stop because it was giving me skin rashes. Worth a try though.

Idebenone: same thing...except this stuff is strong! Like, it really puts you into a zone. But unfortunately, had to stop due to skin complications.

Acetyl L-Carnitine and ALA are two supplements that I _can_ take (besides Phenibut) that won't affect my complexion. The feeling is similar to Idebenone...lifts mood, improves concentration, doesn't make you drowsy, reduces anxiety...and so on. It's been nearly 2 weeks since I started, and I have noticed that its effects are wearing down. But for some reason, I could really feel it working today. I also bought Acetyl L-Carnitine Arginate which made me feel like I had started ALCAR all over again. Felt great.

So right now I'm taking ALCAR and ALA everyday. Taking a break from Phenibut and using it as needed. Same with ALCAR Arginate, piracetam, and oxiracetam. Lecithin and fish/cod liver oil are main staples in my diet. I actually ran out of fish oil and started feeling depressed a day or two later. Then I bought some more now I'm back on top of things. Weird...never had that effect when I took fish oil years ago. Anyway, I'll list my current stack here:

Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALCAR): 500mg 2x a day, after meals
Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA): 500mg 1x a day, with meals
Phenibut: 1/4 teaspoon as needed, after meals
Piracetam: 2400mg as needed, between meals with liquid
Oxiracetam: 800mg as need, between meals with liquid
Lecithin granules: 2 tablespoons 2x a day, with meals
Fish/Cod liver oil: 1 teaspoon 2x a day, with meals

I'm still searching for other cognitive enhancers to cycle with. In the meantime, alcohol never fails to disappoint. lol.


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## Restless Mind

uncomfortablepants said:


> edit: I just wanted to add that I've tried many nootropics and you should be very skeptical about them. Not that they don't do anything but For anyone with significant anxiety problems, piracetam or most of the others aren't going to do much for anxiety.


I agree. Taking Piracetam alone won't do squat. I mean, it will for a short while, but you don't want to be popping 12 pills in a matter of hours. It's best to stack it with stronger, longer-lasting nootropics.

I have pretty significant anxiety problems, and if it wasn't for skin complications, I would have a ton of ways to keep my anxiety at bay. It just takes a lot of time and money to find something that works for you. So don't feel like this route is hopeless. Because it's not. Some of these supplements (picamilon for example) have gotten rave reviews by people who've tried everything...even prescription drugs.


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## Restless Mind

*Re: re: Piracetam*



ToEkNeE said:


> I haven't been having as much trouble with anxiety lately, but just don't have the energy to go up to people and talk with them. I guess I'm more in the depression phase right now. Would you still recommend your stack to me? Or is it somewhat tranqulizing?


I'd try the ALCAR and ALA combo. It's not hard to find and it's safe. I'd also recommend getting lecithin granules and a good fish oil too (like Carlson's). It should help a lot.

Let me know how it goes.


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## uncomfortablepants

You sound like you have a vested interest in supplements or nootropics Restless Mind.




FWIW, I've tried to self medicate with just about every nootropic or supplement under the sun. It can be a long and expensive road before you finally decide to get some real help. To anyone who reads this I suggest saving your money and going to a psychiatrist.

Also, I'm not saying Restless Mind is a rep for any company but people should know that supplement company reps are all over various message boards talking up there products.


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## Restless Mind

Nootropics, to me, are an alternative to prescription drugs. I'm just speaking on behalf of anxiety sufferers who have gone to psychiatrists, and were not satisfied with the results. However, each to his own.


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## Akane

To add to this thread I found a very good and rather lengthy article on nootropics while searching for their effects on animals. http://www.smart-drugs.com/JamesSouth-Nootropics.htm

I also found some racetams especially aniracetam have caused bladder issues in various test animals with high doses and long term use.


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## Beggiatoa

::::Update::::

I started taking piracetam for a few days a week to help me study. I've been taking it on and off for a while but never for as long as now. After the last 4 consecutive days on it...I crashed. My mind was exhausted. This was followed by an intense bout of deep seated depression....and I'm worried. I can't shake it. I'm going on for 2 weeks depressed. Hmmmm...

I'm confident it was the piracetam. I googled "depression" and "Piracetam" and found other people experienced the same result.

I've also been taking choline supplements in the form of soy lecithin. I tell ya.I thought I found a miracle formula when I first took this. My anxiety dissapeared totally! I felt more social, more energized...probably due to the increase in ACH. However, I learned that there is a delicate balance b/w acetylcholine in the brain and dopamine. Seems that taking lecithin everyday for the last couple of months depressed my brain of dopamine. This I dedude from the symptoms I feel not from any blood panels. I'm stuck in a constant state of anhedonia...that is, I feel absolutely nothing. I've felt this way before, when I was younger and my depression was stronger but I haven't felt this since. 

Both Piracetam and choline work well but I recommend short term use only. I am going to try and bring dopamine levels in my brain up by taking tyrosine, a precursor amino acid and lots of fava beans. I regularly take magnesium for depression and sometimes L-tryphtofan. As of now, they are doing nothing. It's the not feeling anything that worries me. I also upped my dose of zinc tonight and took 3 grams of Taurine to lift my mood. I think the Taurine hit the stop. 

Anyways, this is just my experience as of today. I am severely depressed right now but I finally know why. I should shake it eventually....I am my own lab rat jeje..

I will also post this on the other piracetam thread..


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