# Any modern games (pc/ or consoles) with true Permadeath?..



## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

Being respawned in the same "world" and having the opportunity to get your **** back is not permadeath.... I'm sure their has to be some but i honestly can't think of any games with legit permadeath. No save points, and once you die your legitimately dead in every account, that file you were playing on no longer exists. Help me out here. Let's limit things 2011-now.


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## Cashel (Oct 29, 2013)

There's an upcoming survival game called The Long Dark. I'm pretty sure it has a death system like the one you're describing.


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

Cashel said:


> There's an upcoming survival game called The Long Dark. I'm pretty sure it has a death system like the one you're describing.


Gah, a "never get out of beta/alpha" survival game.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I think Runescape has this option now:

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Ironman_Mode

I know that won't be what you're looking for but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Could you not just play as though a game did have perma death though? Delete the save when you die?

Actually I kinda assumed you'd be talking about a certain type of game there.... But you could look into rougelikes they usually involve having to start completely from scratch when you die.

+

http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Perma Death/


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I think Runescape has this option now:
> 
> http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Ironman_Mode
> 
> ...


I'll look into Runescape, i just remember a long *** time ago someone trying to get me started with it and i just couldn't get into the art or.... "creative direction". I wish larger developers would make something with this opt. I remember old school sega and nintendo games had like mad games where you couldn't save and you get boned and start over at the beginning.

When you know that one false step and your ****ed, the game dynamics change and the experience is so much more rewarding. It's not the same when your "pretending" the above is true.


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## joked35 (Oct 13, 2013)

Path of exile on hardcore mode.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

@Kiba yeah that makes sense I guess.

I like Runescape, mostly for nostalgia reasons, and their updated recent graphics are much improved too on the 2007 version. But I can't reccomend it to most people. The combat isn't anything special, and levelling is grindy. It's more fun in p2p, I mostly play for the quirky quests and because I still have the goal of eventually getting a purple party hat.

Wait I just remembered, Torchlight II has permadeath too I think in hardcore mode.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Path of Exile
Diablo 3
Torchlight 2
X-com enemy unknown/within
Starbound
Dead Space 3

Skyrim has a permadeath mod now too. I'll try it when i play it again.


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Path of Exile
> Diablo 3
> Torchlight 2
> *X-com enemy unknown/within*
> ...


I can't believe i forgot X-Com on Ironman >.<.

Skyrim with permadeath sounds fun, if paired with something that drastically increases difficulty.


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## Cashel (Oct 29, 2013)

Kiba said:


> Gah, a "never get out of beta/alpha" survival game.


Just trying to be helpful. No need to insult the developing team of a game I probably will never play.


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

Cashel said:


> Just trying to be helpful. No need to insult the developing team of a game I probably will never play.


When it's one sandbox survival that has been in beta/alpha for awhile... Ok, when it's 2 or 3, hmm seeing a trend. When only like 2 or 3 actually managed to get out of alpha/beta, then i start wondering wtf is going on. It's not like they can't continue introducing extra content and patches after it's released, but wtf are they doing waiting 5-10 years just for a stable release?.. By the time the actual game comes out, i've gotten bored with it already.


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## Cashel (Oct 29, 2013)

Kiba said:


> When it's one sandbox survival that has been in beta/alpha for awhile... Ok, when it's 2 or 3, hmm seeing a trend. When only like 2 or 3 actually managed to get out of alpha/beta, then i start wondering wtf is going on. It's not like they can't continue introducing extra content and patches after it's released, but wtf are they doing waiting 5-10 years just for a stable release?.. By the time the actual game comes out, i've gotten bored with it already.


I'm just messing with you, I've seen quite a few of these survival games that have been in 'pre-release' forever.


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

Cashel said:


> I'm just messing with you, I've seen quite a few of these survival games that have been in 'pre-release' forever.


Yeah man, i've even helped with kickstarter on a couple that looked cool or had a really solid concept, that the developers either scrapped and gave up on it or like randomly disappeared...


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

You want something hardcore? You want a survival game where you might end up killing a traveler because you're starving and your bare, calloused feet are begging you for his shoes? A game where you might shoot someone before even knowing their disposition, just because you can't afford to take chances? Check out Neo Scavenger, probably the best tactical survival game. Not that there are many, but it's good. Project Zomboid is also hardcore and unforgiving, a zombie survival sim. Don't be put off by the beta status, they've been updating it regularly for years and is great in its present state.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Kiba said:


> I can't believe i forgot X-Com on Ironman >.<.
> 
> Skyrim with permadeath sounds fun, if paired with something that drastically increases difficulty.


Either Requiem or Skyrim redone would work. But requiem is stupid unfair though. It would probably be more frustrating than fun.

At least Redone is a bit more fair, if you don't count Crossbow npcs one/two shotting you unless you wear all heavy armors.

A good mod to add would be alternate start. Because starting a new game each time and seeing the original intro would get old fast.


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## mike91 (Sep 23, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I think Runescape has this option now:
> 
> http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Ironman_Mode
> 
> ...


Iron man mode means you cant not play it a mmo no trading other players or getting help from them you can get iron man hard mode witch kinda bans the account of you die not a reset i dont think


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## SilkyJay (Jul 6, 2015)

Max Payne 3 has one of the most unforgiving modes I've ever encountered... Dead space 2 had a nice layout with the 3 save hardcore and well Dead Space 3 you have to beat it simply without ever dying, just like Max Payne's certain mode. My favorite game is Dead space 2 tho. Strategy and the threat of losing progress perfectly molded together among a great game and story.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Kiba said:


> Being respawned in the same "world" and having the opportunity to get your **** back is not permadeath.... I'm sure their has to be some but i honestly can't think of any games with legit permadeath. No save points, and once you die your legitimately dead in every account, that file you were playing on no longer exists. Help me out here.





Persephone The Dread said:


> Could you not just play as though a game did have perma death though? Delete the save when you die?


 :lol

Priceless!


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Its kind of terrible game design so I think a lot of games shy away from it. Back in the NES days a lot of those would punish someone after playing for half an hour with no saves but usually people just throw the controller through the tv. I find when I die in most games I'm torqued about it anyway, usually something crazy that breaks the 'rules' the game world established or just plain aggravating. I have kind of given up on path of exile because its easy to get to about level 40 and then the difficulty skyrockets to the point your gear is trash and regular enemies will destroy you, and then you lose tons of experience as well.


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> Its kind of terrible game design so I think a lot of games shy away from it. Back in the NES days a lot of those would punish someone after playing for half an hour with no saves but usually people just throw the controller through the tv. I find when I die in most games I'm torqued about it anyway, usually something crazy that breaks the 'rules' the game world established or just plain aggravating. I have kind of given up on path of exile because its easy to get to about level 40 and then the difficulty skyrockets to the point your gear is trash and regular enemies will destroy you, and then you lose tons of experience as well.


If some people enjoy the higher stakes, why is it terrible game design? I hate having that opp to trial and error everything from reloading check points or not taking anything seriously because the consequences don't merit it, the immersion is broken.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> Its kind of terrible game design so I think a lot of games shy away from it. Back in the NES days a lot of those would punish someone after playing for half an hour with no saves but usually people just throw the controller through the tv. I find when I die in most games I'm torqued about it anyway, usually something crazy that breaks the 'rules' the game world established or just plain aggravating. I have kind of given up on path of exile because its easy to get to about level 40 and then the difficulty skyrockets to the point your gear is trash and regular enemies will destroy you, and then you lose tons of experience as well.


It's a great game design if you ask me. It's like the ultimate difficulty with the highest stakes. If you die, you lose everything you worked for and start over fresh. It might be a stupid design in most games like a racing game for example, but it works great in action role playing games where leveling up is done fast.

And Poe is a hard game. If you ever want to give it another shot just make one of the op builds like tornado shot or cyclone 2 hander and use that character to farm gear.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> It's a great game design if you ask me. It's like the ultimate difficulty with the highest stakes. If you die, you lose everything you worked for and start over fresh. It might be a stupid design in most games like a racing game for example, but it works great in action role playing games where leveling up is done fast.
> 
> And Poe is a hard game. If you ever want to give it another shot just make one of the op builds like tornado shot or cyclone 2 hander and use that character to farm gear.


Well you take a game like diablo 3.. It has the hardcore mode... it is pretty easy to play it safe and get up to about level 40 or 50 but there comes a point where it is more gear and luck than skill which will determine if you can survive some super OP rare that appears at just the wrong time.

POE, I think a ton of my problem with this game is gear.. I have a pretty easy time up to about level 55 at which point my gear is largely all stuff I've had since level 40 and can't find anything with the right sockets and stats to upgrade. The difficulty level usually goes from cake to instant death within just a few zones, and the zones that are easy end up giving ****ty gear and no exp anymore.


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## BackToThePast (Aug 31, 2012)

Realm of the Mad God comes to mind. It's F2P.


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## Kiba (Apr 26, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> Well you take a game like diablo 3.. It has the hardcore mode... it is pretty easy to play it safe and get up to about level 40 or 50 but there comes a point where it is more gear and luck than skill which will determine if you can survive some super OP rare that appears at just the wrong time.
> 
> POE, I think a ton of my problem with this game is gear.. I have a pretty easy time up to about level 55 at which point my gear is largely all stuff I've had since level 40 and can't find anything with the right sockets and stats to upgrade. The difficulty level usually goes from cake to instant death within just a few zones, and the zones that are easy end up giving ****ty gear and no exp anymore.


A game heavily relient on luck wouldn't be a good candidate for a permadeath game obviously.....:serious:. But Diablo 3 was kind a **** game in it and of itself so who cares?


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Kiba said:


> A game heavily relient on luck wouldn't be a good candidate for a permadeath game obviously.....:serious:. But Diablo 3 was kind a **** game in it and of itself so who cares?


True but what else is there.. There is RNG(Luck), Time(outleveling), and twitch 'skill', which means the first time you gotta sneeze at level 89 your guy is permanently dead after pouring 100 hours into him... Very very few people would call any of these a fun game design.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

knightofdespair said:


> True but what else is there.. There is RNG(Luck), Time(outleveling), and twitch 'skill', which means the first time you gotta sneeze at level 89 your guy is permanently dead after pouring 100 hours into him... Very very few people would call any of these a fun game design.


I think you're right. A lot of times you die because something wasn't clear in the game. Maybe it wasn't clear what part you had to shoot. Maybe it wasn't clear what weapon you needed. You die and have to start all over again. You're cursing the game.

Then you have to restart. It's really difficult if not impossible to make a game such that replaying it is not repetitive.

But I do love the concept of permadeath. I used to love a game a long time ago called "Battle of Britain." You created a pilot and used him in the campaign. The more flights and kills he had the more awards and ranks he received. But if he died he died and you had to create another pilot. You gave these pilots names so you really felt bad when you lost one.

The reason it worked is because creating a new pilot didn't mean you had to restart the campaign. The campaign continued with a new pilot.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

AngelClare said:


> I think you're right. A lot of times you die because something wasn't clear in the game. Maybe it wasn't clear what part you had to shoot. Maybe it wasn't clear what weapon you needed. You die and have to start all over again. You're cursing the game.
> 
> Then you have to restart. It's really difficult if not impossible to make a game such that replaying it is not repetitive.
> 
> ...


One of the often forgotten golden rules of game design is that it should be fun to play. A game like Chess nobody really cares if the King dies and its game over. A game that spans many hours or days and then boom its gone is going to just infuriate people. It doesn't even have to be anything they did wrong.. It can be network lag or even something else on the computer starting up at the wrong time.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> POE, I think a ton of my problem with this game is gear.. I have a pretty easy time up to about level 55 at which point my gear is largely all stuff I've had since level 40 and can't find anything with the right sockets and stats to upgrade. The difficulty level usually goes from cake to instant death within just a few zones, and the zones that are easy end up giving ****ty gear and no exp anymore.


Well don't give up. If you still enjoy the game that is. You need to farm a ton to get decent gear. And trade if you can too. Gear is fairly cheap in standard if you don't need a mjolner or a shavronnes. Once you hit 60+ areas you can save the rare stuff for the chaos recipe. You build up currency slowly that way.

A super cheap easy build is flame totem. Made for magic finding and cheap as heck to gear. Boring to play a bit though but you can go through the whole game easily. I beat Malachi(new act 4 end boss) easily enough with my flame totem marauder. Only died 15 times! lol. Still, i have 480 hp regen per sec and 5200 hp. Totem does about 7k dps on the tool tip and my gems arent 20/20 yet. So it's a strong build, even with subpar gear. I mostly wear mf stuff.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Well don't give up. If you still enjoy the game that is. You need to farm a ton to get decent gear. And trade if you can too. Gear is fairly cheap in standard if you don't need a mjolner or a shavronnes. Once you hit 60+ areas you can save the rare stuff for the chaos recipe. You build up currency slowly that way.
> 
> A super cheap easy build is flame totem. Made for magic finding and cheap as heck to gear. Boring to play a bit though but you can go through the whole game easily. I beat Malachi(new act 4 end boss) easily enough with my flame totem marauder. Only died 15 times! lol. Still, i have 480 hp regen per sec and 5200 hp. Totem does about 7k dps on the tool tip and my gems arent 20/20 yet. So it's a strong build, even with subpar gear. I mostly wear mf stuff.


I never understood how people can get so much HP... The most I've ever had at 60 is about 2500, even if I follow other people's builds..


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> I never understood how people can get so much HP... The most I've ever had at 60 is about 2500, even if I follow other people's builds..


Marauders have a high hp pool. I'm blood magic too so there 3 great hp nodes after you take the keystone.

This is the stuff i wear. I hope you can see it. FreeMyPeopleFromDemons is the Flame totem marauder.

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/xgatsuux/characters

As you can see i don't have great gear. It's just stuff i found myself, except for the vaal scepter. I could use a belly of the beast for a hefty hp boost, but i prefer my 6link(took 10 fuses to link that armor lol)

And link to my build:

Passive skill tree build

I went for survavibility more than damage because wearing magic find gear weakens you a lot. If i wear fight gear i go up to 5500 hp and about 7600 damage on the tool tip. With mf it's 4900 and 5600 about. Still strong enough to take anything on except certain bosses.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Marauders have a high hp pool. I'm blood magic too so there 3 great hp nodes after you take the keystone.
> 
> This is the stuff i wear. I hope you can see it. FreeMyPeopleFromDemons is the Flame totem marauder.
> 
> ...


My main guy was a marauder with blood magic and 2500 hp at 61.. with all my aurus I was going with about 1600 hp after the reserves.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> My main guy was a marauder with blood magic and 2500 hp at 61.. with all my aurus I was going with about 1600 hp after the reserves.


Blood magic and auras aren't a good mix. Especially now that reduce mana doesn't work for them anymore.

2500/3000 is about right for level 60. Once you wear items with 70+hp per item, it goes up fast. You probably got one shotted because of your low resists. it makes a huge difference in merciless. You need them maxed asap.

I hope i'm not annoying. I'll stop quoting you lol.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Blood magic and auras aren't a good mix. Especially now that reduce mana doesn't work for them anymore.
> 
> 2500/3000 is about right for level 60. Once you wear items with 70+hp per item, it goes up fast. You probably got one shotted because of your low resists. it makes a huge difference in merciless. You need them maxed asap.
> 
> I hope i'm not annoying. I'll stop quoting you lol.


Well that is kind of what I find aggravating about the game.. .The skill tree is huge and even with a build that works great for someone else, without the right blend of linked sockets and stat gear you might still be stuck between zones where one drops garbage and the other one shots you.. I think the experience loss part of the game is kind of dumb, since a lot of the time if you're stuck at a boss then none of the gear in the zones that give any exp is useful and the ones that would drop good gear are higher levels/unreachable.. So I find I go pretty easy until I hit merciless and then I get stuck where I don't have the gear or stats to get to zones that drop gear that is actually any good.

I've got 2 marauders - one at 56 and one at 61, and after playing for 5 minutes I gave up, both of them have garbage gear and the zones that drop 56+ gear keep killing me.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> Well that is kind of what I find aggravating about the game.. .The skill tree is huge and even with a build that works great for someone else, without the right blend of linked sockets and stat gear you might still be stuck between zones where one drops garbage and the other one shots you.. I think the experience loss part of the game is kind of dumb, since a lot of the time if you're stuck at a boss then none of the gear in the zones that give any exp is useful and the ones that would drop good gear are higher levels/unreachable.. So I find I go pretty easy until I hit merciless and then I get stuck where I don't have the gear or stats to get to zones that drop gear that is actually any good.
> 
> I've got 2 marauders - one at 56 and one at 61, and after playing for 5 minutes I gave up, both of them have garbage gear and the zones that drop 56+ gear keep killing me.


Gear is a huge complaint in poe. You hear it all the time in global chat.

I know how hard it is too. I used to be stuck at the merciless docks for weeks just slowly farming with my crappy groundslam marauder. I had to go slow and play it hit and run or i would get killed lol. I almost gave up on the game then. But then i got lucky and dropped one hell of a nice 2 hand maul. The game got a lot easier and i killed piety on the same day. Still had to go slow there because my resists sucked.

Anyway if you have a level 65 and 61 you recently got a free respec with the new patch so make a fresh build. Check out lifting nerd on youtube he has great beginner builds for flame totem or cyclone. He goes in detail too so you know what to take at what level. Great guy.

And i have stuff i could give you too like a 5 link armor, a weapon and some gems. I can toss you an item quantity and rarity to help you out too. Item quantity is unobtainable anymore but thanks to my character creating obsession i accumulated quite a few of them.

Just pm me if you decide to try again. I'll log in and help you out. It's quite a fun game once you have a main that can farm gear for himself or alts.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Gear is a huge complaint in poe. You hear it all the time in global chat.
> 
> I know how hard it is too. I used to be stuck at the merciless docks for weeks just slowly farming with my crappy groundslam marauder. I had to go slow and play it hit and run or i would get killed lol. I almost gave up on the game then. But then i got lucky and dropped one hell of a nice 2 hand maul. The game got a lot easier and i killed piety on the same day. Still had to go slow there because my resists sucked.
> 
> ...


I already spent the points on the level 61 one only to die the first area I took him into.. I think that is a lot of my issue is the best armor I have only has 3 linked or maybe a 4 link, plus if I tend to focus on damage I never have enough health or vice versa..


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> I already spent the points on the level 61 one only to die the first area I took him into.. I think that is a lot of my issue is the best armor I have only has 3 linked or maybe a 4 link, plus if I tend to focus on damage I never have enough health or vice versa..


What build did you go with for the level 61? post your tree if you don't mind. I'm curious.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> What build did you go with for the level 61? post your tree if you don't mind. I'm curious.


I'll have to find out how to grab it, its tied through steam. My build looks kind of similar to yours but focus on all the axe nodes. I actually played a little last night, ran ledge a few times and got absolutely nothing of value, ran the highest zone I have open and still didn't really see anything.. died a couple times and figured meh might just have to farm that zone even if I die constantly.

I had a 'cast on damage taken' tied to a rejuvenation totem that used to work but doesn't seem to anymore. My main 4-chain is a sweep with item rarity and reduced mana with faster speed.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> I'll have to find out how to grab it, its tied through steam. My build looks kind of similar to yours but focus on all the axe nodes. I actually played a little last night, ran ledge a few times and got absolutely nothing of value, ran the highest zone I have open and still didn't really see anything.. died a couple times and figured meh might just have to farm that zone even if I die constantly.
> 
> I had a 'cast on damage taken' tied to a rejuvenation totem that used to work but doesn't seem to anymore. My main 4-chain is a sweep with item rarity and reduced mana with faster speed.


Sweep is kind of nice now. It got a significant boost in damage. It's stronger than ground slam a little bit.

Try to make a 4 link and do sweep, Multi strike, faster attack and blood magic. Use the mana for hatred and herald of ash auras. Reduce mana and item rarity is kind of useless at your level. Once you get a 5 link add up melee physical damage.

In another 4 link, do leap slam, blood magic, faster attack and endurance charge on stun. You use that to move around fast and generate charges.

In a 3 link use cast when damage taken, immortal call and increase duration. Just make sure immortal call is lower level than cast when damage taken or it wont proc. And last use a 3 or 4 link and put it enduring cry, faster casting and increase area of effect and blood magic if your mana is too low with reserved aura. You can swap herald of hash for haste, but damage is roughly the same and your mana will all be reserved.

Use blood rage too if you have good regen. They changed it a few patches ago and it's amazing now. The debuff is physical, not chaos.

Your battle tactic will be to leap slam in packs and before you sweep, quickly cast enduring cry so when you take damage immortal call will proc and give you phys immunity, then sweep stuff dead and recast enduring cry as needed after cooldown.

You'll see a huge difference in survivability if you do that.

I have a pretty badass mara sweeper/groundslammer. He's one of my favorite alt to play with. I always did like sweep as a skill.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Sweep is kind of nice now. It got a significant boost in damage. It's stronger than ground slam a little bit.


Well it was a pain to find because steam never really shows but I guess this shows build and crappy items:

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/themrpid10/characters

I don't even use the auras anymore since they take too much health/mana and the rejuvenation totem is apparently not being seen by the cast on damage taken.. I have an ambu's charge I was using before in the bank but it has less armor and resistances I think..


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> Well it was a pain to find because steam never really shows but I guess this shows build and crappy items:
> 
> https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/themrpid10/characters
> 
> I don't even use the auras anymore since they take too much health/mana and the rejuvenation totem is apparently not being seen by the cast on damage taken.. I have an ambu's charge I was using before in the bank but it has less armor and resistances I think..


If i was you i would switch to the level 56. Your build is no good. I suggest you switch up character and don't waste your respec points. 56 isn't that far from 61 anyhow.

Use this build i made you here:

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscr...E9sauxtjPftR82sHiYeRR6hjvDvIv8pz2SPcy97746w==

You should have enough points to grab all of these nodes.

And then use this build as a guide until around level 80. You'll be meaty and tanky. Priority is up to you, but you'll need all these nodes either way.

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscr...audrB4mHkUeoY7w7vfPAf8i_ynPMR9kj3Mve--Ov56P4K

Just follow my previous reply with auras, link and gems and you'll be good to go. I can give you some of those gems and a nice axe too if you want it. I even got a nice armor with all res and high hp. I can log in and pass them on to you. Just let me know.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> If i was you i would switch to the level 56. Your build is no good. I suggest you switch up character and don't waste your respec points. 56 isn't that far from 61 anyhow.
> 
> Use this build i made you here:
> 
> ...


Lol I spent a few hours farming western forest and riverways and wetlands but dying a ton.. I don't have 3 reds to do the leap so I was trying flicker strike but its laggy as hell. I might switch to the 56 for a while like you say.. I have a 5 link tiger sword but its white.. I could probably try to trade something if you have gear that would work better.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> Lol I spent a few hours farming western forest and riverways and wetlands but dying a ton.. I don't have 3 reds to do the leap so I was trying flicker strike but its laggy as hell. I might switch to the 56 for a while like you say.. I have a 5 link tiger sword but its white.. I could probably try to trade something if you have gear that would work better.


Maybe we can try to trade later. I don't know your time zone and i have to head to the bike shop and spend another 75 bucks on my bike.

Trade the sword if it's good. The axe i'll give you isn't 5 link, but it's pretty good. I think i even have a 5 link armor anyway. I found a super nice ring yesterday with mf and near 40% fire, lightning and cold resist. I have a 3 res helmet with hp too. So all of these should near max your resists. I'll help you link up your items too. I've got a crap ton of jewels and fusings to waste. I'm not rich, but i've been playing for a long time.

I'll post some screens of the items later and we can set a time to meet in game. Once you get that stuff set up, you'll blow through merciless. And the way your build is set up you can switch from sweep to cyclone, infernal blow, ice crash(new skill) etc. You won't be limited to using sweep forever. But sweep with extra aoe is very nice. Id love to try that skill with all the aoe nodes and carcass jack(aoe armor).


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Maybe we can try to trade later. I don't know your time zone and i have to head to the bike shop and spend another 75 bucks on my bike.
> 
> Trade the sword if it's good. The axe i'll give you isn't 5 link, but it's pretty good. I think i even have a 5 link armor anyway. I found a super nice ring yesterday with mf and near 40% fire, lightning and cold resist. I have a 3 res helmet with hp too. So all of these should near max your resists. I'll help you link up your items too. I've got a crap ton of jewels and fusings to waste. I'm not rich, but i've been playing for a long time.
> 
> I'll post some screens of the items later and we can set a time to meet in game. Once you get that stuff set up, you'll blow through merciless. And the way your build is set up you can switch from sweep to cyclone, infernal blow, ice crash(new skill) etc. You won't be limited to using sweep forever. But sweep with extra aoe is very nice. Id love to try that skill with all the aoe nodes and carcass jack(aoe armor).


Yeah we can try it.. I am missing a cast on damage that is low enough level for that guy to use, not enough stuff to make multiple scouring orbs to lower it either. One of the hardest parts of the damn game is the linked colors enough to do anything with.. Even if you find perfect gear you might end up having to waste hundreds of color/links to try to get it usable and I think most people don't even bother but I pretty much always play solo so little choice.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> Yeah we can try it.. I am missing a cast on damage that is low enough level for that guy to use, not enough stuff to make multiple scouring orbs to lower it either. One of the hardest parts of the damn game is the linked colors enough to do anything with.. Even if you find perfect gear you might end up having to waste hundreds of color/links to try to get it usable and I think most people don't even bother but I pretty much always play solo so little choice.


How is your character doing with the build? Sorry i didn't reply earlier. I've been working extra hours for a change.

I'll be in game for a few hours now so log in if you want. I've been farming some stuff, but no real luck with anything good that you could use. I still have a bunch of nice gear to pass to you though.


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## ShatteredGlass (Oct 12, 2012)

Idk if anybody has mentioned it, but Minecraft was officially released in 2011 and contains a hardcore mode in which the difficulty is locked on hard mode and you cannot re-spawn.


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## losthismarbles (Jul 5, 2014)

Faster than Light. 

Binding of Issac 

Dungeon of the endless. 

These are rogue-like games with permadeath.
They are post 2011 
These are sort of retro style games though so maybe that's not what you are looking for. 

More games should have permadeath. I used to play Fallout new vegas with permadeath by just deleting my saves when I died, but it's more fun if the game is designed with permadeath.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> How is your character doing with the build? Sorry i didn't reply earlier. I've been working extra hours for a change.
> 
> I'll be in game for a few hours now so log in if you want. I've been farming some stuff, but no real luck with anything good that you could use. I still have a bunch of nice gear to pass to you though.


Eh I've been stuck last boss of Act 3 cruel with him, sure to die at least 3-4 times on final boss and figured I would level once more before I wasted the rest zeroing out the bar. The build seems decent but I'm burning through mana pretty fast. I haven't played much this week because of other stuff.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> Eh I've been stuck last boss of Act 3 cruel with him, sure to die at least 3-4 times on final boss and figured I would level once more before I wasted the rest zeroing out the bar. The build seems decent but I'm burning through mana pretty fast. I haven't played much this week because of other stuff.


Sounds like you made a bit of progress though. What level is he now?

And try to use a blood magic gem in your setting. Ditch the melee phys damage for now and put in blood magic gem, faster attack, multistrike and sweep. Run the auras too, hatred and herald of ash. Huge boost in damage. You have more than adequate regen to run on blood magic.

If we can manage to meet in game soon i can give you the gear i set aside for you. Like i said a bunch of resist stuff and axe. You'll be capped in no time. I dropped a bringer of rain today so it's yours if you want it. The legacy-legacy version(was nerfed twice) isn't that great, but it's a quick and easy 7 link until you get the real thing.

The build is solid. I use it for all my melee marauders and switch the nodes from axe to sword etc. You get good hp and hp regen. The only drawback is low armor for late game maps. Hard hitters might make you run to catch your breath a bit lol.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Sounds like you made a bit of progress though. What level is he now?
> 
> And try to use a blood magic gem in your setting. Ditch the melee phys damage for now and put in blood magic gem, faster attack, multistrike and sweep. Run the auras too, hatred and herald of ash. Huge boost in damage. You have more than adequate regen to run on blood magic.
> 
> ...


59 I believe, planning to hit 60 and then just run Dominus until I'm done with that area. The build feels pretty decent but still trying to get the timings right.. I can stomp 90% of stuff easy peasy and then that one rare/elite shows up that just demolishes half your life in one hit. Thats why I avoid HC on games like this, I am completely opposed to the OP hope for permanent death, I like to take risks in games and do silly stuff that is a pain to have to replay half the level or start over entirely. I grew up with the Atari and NES, got plenty of that back then.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> 59 I believe, planning to hit 60 and then just run Dominus until I'm done with that area. The build feels pretty decent but still trying to get the timings right.. I can stomp 90% of stuff easy peasy and then that one rare/elite shows up that just demolishes half your life in one hit. Thats why I avoid HC on games like this, I am completely opposed to the OP hope for permanent death, I like to take risks in games and do silly stuff that is a pain to have to replay half the level or start over entirely. I grew up with the Atari and NES, got plenty of that back then.


That's awesome then. One you pass Dominus and get to act 4, go to an area called dried lake. That's the new leveling spot. 2 unique mob on the map, the boss and an archer(pain in the ***) so good risk of loot and huge packs of monsters to level fast.

Yeah those elite can wreck you. My scion is a cyclone near max block build and i've died a few time to special hard hitters. 5000 hp gone in two hits while i cyclone and can leap slam out the way lol. Cheap *** mechanic, but that the arpg way

So i added you to my friends list on poe. You'll get the pop up when you log in. It will be easier to trade stuff.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Sounds good. I saw someone saying they should lower dps/change that kind of mechanic. It is kind of dumb that you can jump in and kill 3-4 dozen enemies without losing more than 2% health then one rare or elite hits you once and 3/4 dead instantly. Diablo 3 was the same way. Then they punish you by taking away exp on something that pretty much will always kill anybody at typical health and gear...

Played a little bit, died like 25 times to get past Dominus, he would one hit me about 2/3 of those. I need a Kaom's Primacy, not sure how to get one since even the trade people seem wishy washy about selling or want way too much for it.

Got about halfway through Act 4, only gained one level and not one decent piece of gear has dropped at all in the last 2 acts. How about that arena area? The middle part with like 200 mobs I was dying instantly the second I entered the zone, even with every potion button slammed at once I died instantly. Damn game makes me feel annoyed because I can steamroll 2/3 of it just fine and then the other ones its like 1000x increase in difficulty that you don't really expect and no gear drops or gets sold to handle it.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Well I was just about to give up but the new gear made a world of difference.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

@knightofdespair

It always does. Gear is love. Gear is life. Praise RNGesus!

Keep an eye out for a near perfect Belly of the beast(40%). It will boost your hp by a nice margin since it boost the max health. Good defenses too.

Btw I forgot to tell you, but you'll need to grab iron reflexes on the tree. Converts all evasion to armor. Eva is useless to you now since you take unwavering stance and can't avoid hits. Might as well put that extra evasion for something good.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Scrub-Zero said:


> @*knightofdespair*
> 
> It always does. Gear is love. Gear is life. Praise RNGesus!
> 
> ...


You might have to do a new tree, I've been working my way up to the triangle in the corner. Just hit 70 last night, got about half of act 4 done now. Might have to start switching out for some magic find gear soon, I've been stashing a few crap whites/yellows but haven't seen one good drop yet in pretty much the entire merciless difficulty.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

So what do you think of this build? Do you use the jewel sockets at all?

Link keeps getting butchered


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

knightofdespair said:


> So what do you think of this build? Do you use the jewel sockets at all?
> 
> Link keeps getting butchered


Yep it's a solid build. I like it. But if i was you i would grab Devotion near the element triangle. 6%+8% is a nice little boost for only two points. Once you max resists with gear you can ditch diamond skin and use the two points for Devotion.

And with a build like that you will be able to sustain righteous fire with the rise of the phoenix shield + level 20 purity of fire and Vitality. More for fun though since you won't do the full damage of an RF build.

I use jewels too, but there's only two slots in my builds. Good enough i think. Some of them are amazing, like the one that give 50% spell damage when no mana is reserved. It boosted my flame totem damage by a lot.


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## sylis (Jul 21, 2015)

terriria o_o


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## Neamatua (Aug 25, 2015)

If you play on the computer there's a roguelike called tome like this. Heck, even the "easy" version only let's you have a limited number of lives, which you have to earn by hitting certain levels


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## Malek (Oct 4, 2012)

Yeah, I guess challenges are fun? Not really my cup of tea though, heh. Ain't got time for that.


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## LK 89 (Oct 30, 2011)

A great game with permadeath I recommend is Brogue.


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