# Trying to turn to Jesus for help



## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi guys

Just wanted to say that I've always been quite a spiritual person but never followed any Religion. I have been approached in the past by Christian missionaries and always had good conversations but nothing has ever come from it. However I met some just recently and this time it's a bit different.

This is very hard for me to explain as I'm not great with words but right now my life is in absolute turmoil, I recently gained employment after a year out of work but gave up soon after (only 2 weeks in) due to overwhelming anxiety, I am abusing pharmaceutical drugs, my financial situation is a disaster yet this meeting between me and these missionaries seems right.. I get good vibes from it, like it was maybe supposed to happen.

They are Mormon Latter Day Saints and seem like really nice people, they asked if they could come round and have a chat sometime so I agreed. This was last week.

They came round and we discussed a bit about God and how I felt about my beliefs, I said I felt I struggled with believing in Jesus Christ, though I have prayed to ask for more faith and understanding, and asked God to show me this is truly the right way but so far I haven't felt like I have been given a definite answer, even when we prayed together in my house.

I really want to believe in Jesus but it's like something is stopping me. How do you reach a point where you have true faith within yourself that Jesus is real and our saviour?

They are coming around again to talk, they even mentioned I should maybe get Baptised (I never was) but I'm not ready for that yet I don't think. I do believe God is the answer to my problems, I do at least believe that I can overcome my SA with God's help, but I am confused about Jesus Christ. I'm sorry if that sounds silly, but can anyone offer any advice? Some passages to read to help me gain faith maybe? I have the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. How can I know who Jesus is?

Many thanks to all.


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## sadeyes (Aug 22, 2010)

I think the Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, but that Jesus was just a man, not God.
Many Christian churches believe that Jesus Christ is God in human form.

Those two ideas of Jesus have been around since Roman times.

Being a logical person, I had to start with something solid. My studies have led me to believe that Jesus was a real person, a Jewish person, who preached and taught about how to be good to others, and how not to judge others. 

Jesus taught people how to serve God, and how to serve God's children. He basically showed people how to get closer to God without having to follow a bunch rules, which were predominant in the Jewish religion at the time. In a way, he was like Martin Luther, where Martin Luther was a Catholic priest, who pointed out that the Catholic church at that time was turning into a bunch of rules and regulations, and kept people from getting close to God. So the Jewish Jesus begins a Catholic religion, like the Catholic Martin Luther began a Lutheran religion.

If you study Jesus from a historical point of view, you can understand where he came from, and how amazing he was. And eventually you can understand how holy Jesus was, and why the early Church declared Jesus as God in human form.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

OK thank you for that, one thing the Mormon's said to me is that they believe God to look like a man, which I have problems getting my head around. I think there is a piece of scripture which says God made man in his own image and they appear to take this passage quite literally. 

Although this is not really relevant, I want to be closer to God but it's doubts like this that make me not sure if joining these people is the way to do it. But how do I know what is the truth anyway? is there an element of just accepting what we are told or is it truly all about feeling and will I gain this reassurance from God through prayer? 

I think this is what they are aiming for at least from speaking to them since on the telephone, they seemed very interested in what effects the praying had on me, I'm guessing they want to pray with me again and hopefully God will let me know this is the right path??

Thanks


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## sadeyes (Aug 22, 2010)

It's about God, and what God's plans are for us. It's not about what some man-made religion, nor a door to door zealot wants us to believe, it's about what God wants us to believe. And in my opinion Jesus was the best teacher on what God wants for us.

The Mormons put more faith in Joseph Smith then Jesus.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

OK thanks again, I agree it's what God wants and this is why I have always been hesitant on following any organised religion. I don't want to get caught up with these guys or brainwashed if it's not the truth.

I guess I shall know my answer when we pray, if that is how it works.


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## laray55 (Oct 17, 2010)

I read a good book "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel that I think you will find helpful. Be careful before you join any Church. There are a lot of false religions around including some mainstream Christian churches. Their have been false religions around since New Testament times. Check out everything someone tells you and make sure it is what the Bible teaches. You should check out some online Bible Studies. Watch out some will quote a piece of scripture and give you their interputation of what it means. I would suggest you read the New Testament you have. Reading it will help you learn more about who Jesus Christ is and what he taught. I have prayed for years for God help. He has led me to a congregation that teaches from the Bible. From the Christian love I am receiving from the members who have made me feel welcome I have made progress in overcoming my social anxiety. I still have problems with SA but with God's help I am finally getting better. Keep praying God does answer prayers. I'll keep you in my prayers that God will help you find the answers you seek and help you overcome your social anxiety.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

The Bible is the only consistent document :yes.


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## Amber78 (Jun 25, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> The Bible is the only consistent document :yes.


I agree.

What bothers me about the Mormon religion among other things is that they have an additional book they claim is right there with the Bible. Discovered by a Joseph Smith in the late 1800s, so a relatively new discover by comparison to the bible I believe Joseph Smith was a fraud.

I have a verse for you that I take great comfort it and that is Matthew 11:28-30.

28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Come to me is an invitation, all you who are weary and burdene...well that is us is it not? With our burdens of sins and who are weary of the trials of life. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me....learning how to better lives our lives through Christ and learn from him what is most beneficial to us.. to find rest, to carry a much easier yoke, and to have a much lighter burden which tells us that its not without burden but a much lighter load than we carry now.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi, yes this Book of Mormon I'm having trouble understanding. It's quite hard to read and I'm not sure what to make of it. I have read the New Testament and Matthew chapter in particular struck a chord with me. It feels like the truth, you know it when you hear it. I would rather just follow the New Testament than this Book of Mormon but not sure how to tell them that? 

I think they believe the New Testament to have been corrupted and adulterated from it's original form over the years, which may be true, but there is certainly some truth written in the New Testament I feel.

Thanks


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Well whoever played fro me THANK YOU FROM MY HEART. 

They came around again today and it was very different to the first time, I think they knew I was starting to get freaked out by the whole bible bashing thing so they directed me to some passages which dealt with addiction to drugs etc, it's like they already knew... I explained I have been opiate dependant for a few years and now developing a problem with sleeping pills too. I smoke and drink lots of caffeine.

They said that all this clutter is something that can stop God from reaching me. It makes sense, my diet is also terrible, I don't eat any fruit or veg really, just sweet stuff and chips etc, pizza just junk. 

They said they're gonna help me detox, be there with me every step of the way no matter how long it takes, what a great opportunity for me to kick the drugs eh?

I also asked them a few points that were brought up int this thread, they said that they believe Jesus to be the Son of God (as in God in human form) and not just a human teacher.They also denied quite strongly that they put more emphasis or faith ion Joseph Smith than Jesus Christ. In fact when I said that question I think I offended them a bit so I apologised.

They seem like lovely intelligent people and I am looking forward to speaking to them more. Some very surprising things they said to day was that they felt Marajuana is a herb to be used for medicinal means, to help humans. I agree with this, and was surprised they also agreed. When I asked about Magic Mushrooms then laughed and weren't too sure, hahaha

PS. The prayers went very well today, I got good feelings from them and have a littler flame in me that says everything is gonna be ok. Just gotta have COURAGE!

Thanks for all y our replies, to all that read and especially to those that prayed! I love you God Bless. x


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## blc1 (Jan 8, 2009)

I would like to recommend G.K. Chesterton's "Orthodoxy". Also the gospel of John, " In the beginning was the word and the word was with God... ..and the word became flesh and dwelt among us". I hope you keep the faith! It's hard I know.


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## Wrangler (Oct 3, 2010)

one of my favorites is James 1:12, this translation from the King James Bible:

Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks for those cool quotes.

I have 3 of them now coming around tomorrow, I'm not sure what will go on, can't remember if they asked me to do some reading, I said I prefer to read the new Testament to the Book of Mormon and they seemed ok with that.

I guess the more people that pray the better effect is has?? Am I right? I feel a deep sense of love when someone has taken the time to pray for me, it's lovely feeling.


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## laray55 (Oct 17, 2010)

ZeroG64, Please check out the following website:  exmormom.org . Start with 'thinking of joining mormons'. Make sure that they use your New Nestament. I learned a lot about the mormon church by reading websites like this one. There is a lot of information to check out. The missionaries will not like you to read anything written by exmormons. I hope you check this site out before you meet with them again. It will give you a better understanding of the church history and some of thier more obscore believes. I hope you find what you are looking for in a Christian Church. I became a Christian on JUNE 12, 2010 after years of praying and searching for God's true church. I belief I have found it. I"ll keep praying for GOD to help you find the answers you seek and to become a true Christian. Just be sure you check out everything a church believes in before becoming a member.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Guys thanks for the advice. The link to the above website does nothing but put me off these people and their Religion, yet they seem nice and I always believe you should take people as YOU see them rather than how others do. I have no idea who to believe when it comes to all the different Christian sects, so I will see how this goes.

Today they are bringing around a third person, to testify what becoming a Mormon has done to their life, at least I think that's what's going on. They wanted me to read the Book of Mormon, Chapter 18 Alma, though none of it is making any real sense to me to be perfectly honest. 

I don't want to get to the point where I can't tell these people I don't want anything to do with them but I already feel a bit "locked in" with them somehow, or obliged if that makes sense. 

They talked about going to a social gathering and specifically pointed out that there would be "girls there" and laughed which I thought was pretty cool lol, so I dunno we'll see what happens after today's session. 

I'll report back here if anyone is actually reading this thread just to let you know what they have to say. It's quite hard understanding them as one is Spanish and the other South African and their English isn't the best which doesn't help. There was one American from Utah who was a very cool guy, I liked him but he was on the last week of his missionary so I doubt I'll ever see him again, yet he was probably the best one I spoke to in terms of helping me to become closer to God/Jesus.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh yeah, and last time they were here I asked them if they wanted a cup of tea or coffee (like we all do in the UK) and they said "no thanks, can we have some water?". So these guys don't even drink Tea? For me, being what I am at the moment; a pharmaceutical waste bin to going to some completely straight person where I can't even drink tea is a little bit too much for me to stomach. :no


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Guys, well I thought I should just give you an update as to what happened today.

The third person didn't show up as they couldn't find one in time, but that's beside the point, I said I was glad as it made me feel uncomfortable anyway. 

So it was the same 2 missionaries, we sat down and talked about my problems, specifically kicking the drugs and they told me to pray which we did. They asked if I had read that chapter and I told them I found it heavy going an I didn't really understand it too well, so they pointed out some other verses which made some amazing sense, they took me right back to the beginning with Adam and Eve and taught me the fundamentals of original sin and the consequences of such, which is what I needed as I am a total Christian noob. They talked about how we were originally with God by his side in spirit form and we all came here in human form to Earth as a test (or something along them lines).

I expressed my concerns to them that this was the right path for me, I said I had read some negative things about Mormons on the internet and they said I should ask God if it is the right path as he will let me know. They said they get abuse every single day lol

They invited me to pray and we did and I asked for strength to help me overcome my addictions and to help with understanding the bible and it's teaching, to forgive me for my sins and thank God for everything I have been given by him.

It was a lovely prayer and I felt great afterwards, they then advised me to pray and read the Book of Mormon as often as I can, from beginning to end, they said that this would give me my answer. They said any question I had that was relevant to life, and I mean ANY question, could be answered in the Book of Mormon. Impressive stuff!

They are real nice down to earth people, we chatted casually about things and they are certainly on my level (I thought they may be a bit weird, without good sense of humour etc but that's not the case), they said it was all about feeling, that if I pray enough will get the feeling that this is the one true path and that's all I want. They talked about meditation and other methods to help to obtain this feeling. They said this feeling is important as it will be the driving force for your direction in life, I assume they are talking about the Holy Spirit.

So anyway, enough rambling, they are meeting up with me 3 times a week to chat and I think I'm going to continue and see where it goes. So far I have to say it feels right.


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## Amber78 (Jun 25, 2010)

U have to do what is right for you...I think the LDS is far too strict on things like alcohol and cafeine tho. And the book of Mormon is just not for me. 

But keep searching and do what you feel is right I am certanely not telling you not to persue the LDS church. Best of luck to you. I hope you find the peace you are looking for.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah I know what you are saying! I don't drink too much these days anyway but how will I live without my tea! :|

Thanks for reading Amber. 

I am sure no matter what though, Christianity is the right path.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

HAHA just thought of something funny now you mention it, the other day when they were here I pulled out a can of Red Bull and their faces were like :um They actually rang me up tonight giving me a lecture on caffeine and how it's bad for me thinking it's why I was taking sleeping pills (different story why I'm on them), so yeah that's pretty funny.


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## tara79 (Oct 28, 2010)

I am so glad that you are looking to Jesus for help and guidance because that is definiately the right way to go. I have been a Christian all my life and I can tell you that having Jesus in it has been a blessing; however, it doesn't mean your life is going to be a piece of cake. If you seek him, you will find him and I will pray that you do find him and things start getting better for you.

I do not believe that the Mormon religion is right and that you should turn to the Christian bible only to seek the truth. I researched the difference between Mormons and Christians and found a lot of information on it. I will send you a chart in a separate post so you can see it. I will pray that you make the right decision and not let them back into your house. The bible warns about false prophets and that is what they are. If you ever want to talk about it privately, please feel free to send me a private message ok?


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## tara79 (Oct 28, 2010)

Here is the chart for you:

*MORMON THEOLOGY**CHRISTIAN RESPONSE*The Church has 4 Standard Works that are authoritative: The Bible (in so far as it is translated correctly), the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. Speeches and writings of the current president of the church are also authoritative. The Bible is far below the other standard Works because it is full of errors (wherever it disagrees with Mormon doctrine).







The only authoritative scriptures given by God are the 39 books of the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible. God promised to preserve his word and to suggest that the Bible was mistranslated and corrupted would be to call God a liar. If God were to give additional revelations they would be consistent with any prior revelations thus eliminating Mormon writings, since they stand in direct opposition to the divine revelation that has already been given in the Bible.*One God*​There are many Gods. Brigham Young-Journal of Discourses 7:333 "How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods.







There is only one God. (Dt 6:4; 33:26-27; Isa 43:10; 45:5; 46:9; 1Ti 2:5)*The Nature of God*God the Father is an exalted man (a man who has progressed to godhood) with a body of flesh and bones. _Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1973 ed., p. 346 - "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in a form-like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man."_
_D & C 130:22 "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also."_







The Bible is most explicit in stating that God is not a man (Nu 23:19; 1Sa 15:29; Hos 11:9). God the Father, the eternal God is Spirit (Isa 55:8-9; 6:1-5; 57:15; Pss 90:2; 113:5-6; 123:1; Jn 4:24: 8:23) Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Lk 24:39) God the Father became a God after learning truth, aggressively pursuing godhood, and being obedient to the laws of the gospel.







God the Father has always existed as such (Dt 33:27; Isa 43:10; 44:6; 45:5, 21; 46:9; Mal 3:6; 1Co 8:4; 1Ti 2:5; Rev 1:8; 21:6; 22:13).  







As Psalms 90:2 and 93:2 state, God has been God "from eternity to eternity." God the Father has a wife, through whom he procreates spirit children. "Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. An exalted and glorified Man of Holiness (Moses 6:57) could not be a Father unless a Woman of like glory, perfection, and holiness was associated with him as a Mother" (Mormon Doctrine, 1977 ed., p. 516)







The Godhead determined to make man in their image, not to procreate spirit children (Ge 1:26). Nowhere does Scripture even hint at the existence of an Eternal Mother.


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## tara79 (Oct 28, 2010)

I couldn't fit it all, here's some more. The blue is the mormon beliefs and the red is christian beliefs.

God is not a uniquely eternal being. All spirit is self-existent matter and is eternal (without beginning or end). Such "matter (called intelligences) sometimes becomes organized into a spirit being through birth to celestial parents. Then that spirit is born through human parents on earth. Like all people, God took this course and eventually reached Godhood. God would stop being God if intelligences stopped supporting him as God.
(D&C 93:29, 33; Abraham 3:18-23; Mormon Doctrine, 1977 ed. p. 751)







God is not God unless He is all-powerful, all knowing, absolutely in charge. If God exists only as God because of support given from other intelligent forms, He is not God at all (Isa 44:6; Ro 3:4; Rev 1:8; 21:6; 22:13) 







God is unchangingly omnipotent, and no purpose of His can be thwarted. He is not overruled by anyone (Ge 17:1; Job 36:22-23; 42:2; Isa 14:26-27; 40:13-14; Jer 32:27; Mt 19:26; Lk 1:37; Ac 17:24-25; Rev 19:6)*Man and Sin*Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be" (D&C 93:29) Life, intelligence, mind, the 'light of truth' , or whatever name one gives to the center of the personality of man, is an uncreated, eternally existent, indestructible entity...In the first stage, man was an eternally existent being termed an intelligence...The next realm where man dwelt was the spirit world....eternally-existing intelligences were clothed with spirit bodies...numerous sons and daughters were begotten and born of heavenly parents into that eternal family in the spirit world" (The Gospel Through the ages, pp.126-127)







Man is a finite being, not an eternal one. The first man Adam was created at a specific point in time (Ge 1:26-27; 2:7; 1Co 15:45-49). Man did not exist in the beginning when God was creating the universe, for if he had, God's question to Job would have made no sense (Job 38:4). Man was created lower than the angels, so that David wondered why God is even mindful of him (Ps 8:3-5; 144:3). Not a single verse in the Bible suggests that God has a wife, but Isaiah 44:24 explicitly says that the Lord made all things by Himself. Moreover, several passages in Isaiah indicate that there is only one God and there is none beside Him (44:8; 45:6) or like Him (46:9). "...these spirit children were organized, possessing divine, eternal, and godlike attributes, inherited from their Heavenly Father and Mother. There in the spirit world they were reared to maturity, becoming grown spirit men and women prior to coming upon this earth" (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 127). "Jesus is man's spiritual brother. We dwelt with Him in the spirit world as members of that large society of eternal intelligences, which included our Heavenly Parents and all the personages who have become mortal beings upon this earth or who ever shall come here to dwell...Jesus was the 'firstborn,' and so He is our eldest brother" (Ibid., p.21)







Jesus was and is Almighty God from everlasting to everlasting. He is the creator of all that exists and is "firstborn" over all creation in the sense that He is the preeminent originator of life and the universe (Mic 5:2; Ps 90:2; Jn 1:1-3; Ac 3:14-15; Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2). This meaning for the word "firstborn" can be understood by comparing Genesis 41:51-52, which states that Manasseh was Joseph's "firstborn" son while Ephraim was the second, with Jeremiah 31:9, where God calls Ephraim the "firstborn." Obviously, "firstborn" does not always mean the one literally born first. Death and sin came through the fall of Adam and Eve. But their deed was not actually a "sin." It was really a blessing because it enabled man to continue progressing on toward eternal life. "They (the Christian world) have been long taught that Adam and Eve were great transgressors...We, the children of Adam....should rejoice with them, that through their fall and the atonement of Jesus Christ, the way of eternal life has been opened up to us" (Articles of Faith, p. 476)







Rejoicing is hardly the proper response to Adam's sin. Because of that sin, both Adam and Eve died spiritually and their physical bodies began to deteriorate. Eve was given pain and sorrow in child-bearing, Adam was required to work and sweat in order to eat, the entire creation was cursed, they were thrown out of the Garden forever, and the entire human race was destined to be born dead in sins and children of god's wrath by nature. To rejoice in the fall of man is to embrace Satan's lie. It was Satan who deceived Eve by convincing her that sin was good and would bring her knowledge and reward. (Ge 3:16-24; Ro 3:23; 5:12-15, 17-19; 8:19-22 Eph 2:1-5; 1Jn 3:4)*The Doctrine of Salvation*Christ's death on the cross (the atonement) canceled the penalty of death imposed on ALL men through Adam's sin, thereby ensuring that all men would be redeemed - resurrected and given immortality (the reuniting of spirit with body)-as a gift. "If there had been no atonement, temporal death would have remained forever, and there never would have remained forever, and there never would have been a resurrection. The body would have remained forever in the grave" (Mormon Doctrine, 1977 ed., p.63)
"Redemption from death, through the sufferings of Christ, is for all men, both the righteous and the wicked" (Ibid., p. 65)
"Immortality is a free gift which comes by grace alone without works on man's part" (Ibid., p. 377)







Not everyone is blessed through Christ's crucifixion. Only those who accept His sacrifice and surrender themselves to Him (Ro 10:9) will receive the benefit of Jesus' death and resurrection, which is forgiveness of sins (Ac 10:43) and salvation (Ro 3:24). Eternal life "in Christ," and not just simply eternal existence through resurrection, is the gift offered by God to humanity (Ro 6:23). This gift is obtainable only by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-10). 







Jesus' death serves to reconcile all believers to God (Ro 5:10). In dying, Jesus broke down the wall of separation between us and God that was present through man's disobedience to the Law (Eph 2:11-22)


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

ZeroG64 said:


> Hi Guys, well I thought I should just give you an update as to what happened today.
> 
> The third person didn't show up as they couldn't find one in time, but that's beside the point, I said I was glad as it made me feel uncomfortable anyway.
> 
> ...


The Bible itself teaches us not only what a man/woman is, but what sin is and the conseqeunces of those actions.

If you have been taking drugs and alcohol - why? The Bible even has stories about that. We feel that we cannot face our problems - what are we hiding? God allows you to bring it to the light (He made us, therefore he knows the Users' Manual!). He will put people in your path.....SAFE people

Spiritually Mature
Able to Keep Confidence (they are NOT supposed to talk about you behind your back - that's THEIR sin!)
Familiar with the Process
Encouraging

And drugs/alcohol is not the worst - ALL SIN is the worst - no one is worse than another.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 is probably one of the most important passages I have encountered when becoming a new Christian. It's been almost ten years since I have been saved now. :afr :lol.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi, I really appreciate your post but I must say, these differences...rules... and regulations...it all seems so formal (almost petty) and is what turns me away from organised religion in the first place. Does it matter so long as we worship Jesus Christ and God? If I can feel in my heart that the people that enter my home are genuine and caring then does that not mean something? Can I ask what sect of the Christian community you are from yourself please? 

It's when this war on what is right or wrong on following Jesus starts when I feel like giving up. Who can REALLY tell who is right?, they say to me ask in my heart and in prayer, who can say fairer than that? Is that not the right way? Surely God would warn me away from these people if what they were preaching were false?


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> The Bible itself teaches us not only what a man/woman is, but what sin is and the conseqeunces of those actions.
> 
> If you have been taking drugs and alcohol - why? The Bible even has stories about that. We feel that we cannot face our problems - what are we hiding? God allows you to bring it to the light (He made us, therefore he knows the Users' Manual!). He will put people in your path.....SAFE people
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your knowledge, that is truly appreciated. I feel at this point God has listened to my prayers, I'm not ashamed to admit earlier today I cried because I know that what has happened over the past few weeks to me is beyond coincidental and my prayers have been answered. I honestly feel humbled as I begin my slow path in learning the truth.

Side note:

Whether some of your guys think LDS are a scam or not, these good people have come to my house and helped me, and I asked God for that. They are taking the time to help me and have promised to be with me every step of the way in conquering my addiction, and they want nothing from me, no money, nothing! Yet You are going to actively pray that I do not let them into my house again?


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## spacechild (Oct 22, 2010)

religion to me is the worship of someones very old opinion, minus what jesus said, i dont see why should i worship an old book? Im a firm believer in love and peace. I believe that we are all servants of god/love whether its your will or not. For its said that even evil man was created for purpose, my guess is for purpose of balance, ying/yang,light/dark. When i think of s-i-n i think of "Self-Indulged-Neglegance". you know in your head when you neglect to do good out of fear or negative thoughts? i didnt have to learn that from anyone, its in all of us, god put it there. as far as bible goes, there is a quote i once read that god does not dwell in the places of idol worship. which cancels out the catholic religion right away with worship to mary.fall of false religions will happen like its said, people will catch onto the money grab and the power trip they are pulling. but there are passages of jesus stating that he is not god, but is of the father. this is why i stay out of church. I feel gods presence most when im in nature, in silence where i can truly reflect and speak to god, just like jesus did. After i reflect and get my burdens out and confessions out to him, i feel charged and bring my refreshed soul to friends and loved ones.To me its nice to know our creator isnt judging us harshly on our travels. He created us and knows us better than we do, if he wanted to makes us perfect he would have. than the world would be boring. I dont believe in being perfect, or trying to. you are who you are. the biggest problem i see in people is that they compare themselves to perfection, and in doing so, are led to believe that they have a problem. when in reality they are beautiful and perfect the way they are. In the end its not what you said, but its what you did to make a difference.When you focus on helping others, you stop focusing on your mindly flaws, and in return are helping yourself. "do on to others as you would yourself". If your belief doesnt push you to help others and do good in life, than its time to change your belief for the better. the truth will set you free.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Wow, great post there spacechild.


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## laray55 (Oct 17, 2010)

I do not want to tell you which religion to follow that is up to you. I just feel that before you make any decisions you should contact some other Christian's churches. I would suggest contacting a member of the Church of Christ and asking about doing a one on one Bible study. If this is hard for you to do because of your SA they do offer an online Bible study at church-of-christ.org. Also I suggest that you read your Bible daily and pray to God to help you understand what he has written. Keep praying for God's guidance. He does answer prayers.


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## King Moonracer (Oct 12, 2010)

Ugh i try to look ti God, buy it seems that God likes to mess with me... The most rediculous things happen to me, that can't be coincidental..I don't know why I'm being challenged like this... What did I do? I try to do good things to not be so depressed, but it all backfires into the thing I don't want... And sometimes weird things just happen that are kinda good, but not life changing.. Probably just God tellin me he's still there. I used to pray like everynight before bed, but haven't done it so much lately... Probably because my life is miserable.. I could be so much. I could be a famous something, and do amazing things, but I'm held back by social anxiety... Why has God done this to me? I'm in such a bad mood tonite.. It's 2 here and it takes an hou to get to sleep... Then scho in the morning....... I wish I could just give up... Life doesn't have to be so hard, we just make it hard..... Society is built around one type of personality type, and it sure as he'll isn't mine.... I'm in such a ****tyy mood. I can't sleep... School tommorow, and a brain full of worries... I have nothig to look forward to. Except the next day when I can come home and sleep..... It's probably the porn..


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## tara79 (Oct 28, 2010)

Sorry, I haven't been on for a couple of days. I knew posting what I did would cause confusion, frustration and possibly some hard feelings but I really wanted you to see the key differences between the two religions. If you are truly considering letting Jesus into your life, then it is also important to get the facts straight. Those things you think are petty are not. Please pray hard that God will lead you the right way....I am.

I am protestant christian and we only go by what the bible teaches, not a book of someone's opinions.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

This "book of someone's opinions" you are referring to is the "Book of Mormon" I take it? How do you really know they are only opinions? Many people say the same thing for the New Testament, many people believe the text has been altered over time (which I know Mormons do) which is fair enough. But they still read it, if I'm correct? They told me they read all of them.

Granted I haven't read too much of it yet as I find it pretty tough going and I'm lacking attention span atm for various reasons, plus I hate reading lol.

I think so long as we all worship Jesus and God and follow the commandments given to us then that is the most important thing, not worrying about historical details and which may or may not be true. I don't want to make this Religion complicated, I want it to be simple as I think it should be for every man/woman to follow without getting confused over which sect he/she should be joining. LDS/Protestant etc... we are all the same, at least to me.

But like you say, Praying is the way forward, God will let me know and guide me the right direction (which I think he already is doing), things feel right with these people. I prayed for help and feel like it's finally come in the form of these 2 LDS missionaries. Only good can come of this I hope, in the next few months I will be quitting my sleeping pills, quitting smoking (at long bloody last), eating a better diet, not drinking tea (grrr :no) and I can only imagine how much better I will feel once my body is starting to be looked after properly! 

Then I can be baptised, which will symbolise a new chapter in my life, and a future with hope. 

At the end of the day, does it REALLY matter if I am LDS rather than Protestant, Catholic, Methodist, Buddhist, Hindu or even Muslim? I don't think so. I think so long as we all worship God (in all it's forms) and follow his commandments which are well documented though out all religious scripture and more importantly, as spacechild said above; it's already in OUR HEARTS what is right and wrong. The path should be simple. not confusing.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

King Moonracer said:


> Ugh i try to look ti God, buy it seems that God likes to mess with me... The most rediculous things happen to me, that can't be coincidental..I don't know why I'm being challenged like this... What did I do? I try to do good things to not be so depressed, but it all backfires into the thing I don't want... And sometimes weird things just happen that are kinda good, but not life changing.. Probably just God tellin me he's still there. I used to pray like everynight before bed, but haven't done it so much lately... Probably because my life is miserable.. I could be so much. I could be a famous something, and do amazing things, but I'm held back by social anxiety... *Why has God done this to me?* I'm in such a bad mood tonite.. It's 2 here and it takes an hou to get to sleep... Then scho in the morning....... I wish I could just give up... Life doesn't have to be so hard, we just make it hard..... Society is built around one type of personality type, and it sure as he'll isn't mine.... I'm in such a ****tyy mood. I can't sleep... School tommorow, and a brain full of worries... I have nothig to look forward to. Except the next day when I can come home and sleep..... It's probably the porn..


Honest, yet typical question. Part of what we face is our fault. Our fear of things and letting Him handle them, allowing Him to SHOW US how to defeat our fears. We cling on to our own understanding when a lot of it is out of our realm. We want to control everything and that just can't happen - it would drive us nuts.

God is the one we should be comforted by, NOT the one we run from!


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## tara79 (Oct 28, 2010)

From what I have been taught and what I believe is that the bible, old and new testament, were all written by different authors, BUT the Holy Spirit guided them in their writing which means it came from God. I have to admit that I do not know a lot about the Book of Mormon; however, if it is not from the Bible, I cannot tell you that it is the truth.

The way the Mormons view God is totally different from the Christian perspective along with many other things. I strongly urge you to read what I posted before. I know it can get alittle deep but it's worth while reading.

Also, I just wanted to say that it is great to hear that you are going to be making some positive changes in your life. GOOD FOR YOU! =) I'll be praying for you!


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Tara, thanks you for that nice reply. I understand what you are saying, the way the Mormons view God (as a man) is different to other Christian beliefs I guess. Thanks for praying for me, I actually showed my LDS missionaries what you wrote above whilst they were round my house and they seemed to disagree with a lot of what you wrote, I'm not to sure on what points exactly but they asked me to print it off for them so they can reply lol, it was pretty funny. So I might be posting their reply to that here soon, but I know they are very busy with what they do.

I'd like to try and understand the points above but I'm only a noob and I'm already mentally exhausted with what I've learned so far and I feel it would only confuse me at this point.

But thanks again for the well wises. 

All the best.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I will be praying for you, too. :yes


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you! I'm pretty new to praying (at least the correct way) but I'll also make mention of my gratitude to you here at SAS in my prayers.


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

ZeroG64, you seem pretty set on Christianity being the truth. Can I ask you why you haven't considered Hinduism, Sikhism, Baha'ism, Islam, Judaism, or Pastafarianism?

Of course since most people on this forum think everyone else is a Protestant Christian like them, you're only going to be getting advice pointing you toward their doctrine. Who's to say the New Testament is more divinely inspired than the Book of Mormon or the Qur'an? Who's to say that "John 3:16" has any more meaning than "an invisible pink unicorn rules the universe"?


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## Robot the Human (Aug 20, 2010)

I've always struggled with the love part. I have trouble enough loving people around me that I can see and touch. It took me a very long time to be able to even grasp the concept of loving Jesus. The fact that something was missing, loving Jesus, was a sign to me to keep going and searching. Our duty to search is never really done.

The part in the bible (Luke version) where the two men were being crucified on each side of Jesus, and the good guy to his right stood up for Jesus even though he didn't know much of him and was going to die. He asked Jesus to remember him, and Jesus assured the man with no hesitation along with his blessing. To me, that's very powerful stuff and after that I learned to love him and appreciate him more. 

You could be in my situation and the loving part or even respect/belief part could take a while. If you keep searching, you should find what you are looking for. Once you stop looking, you can't really find anything.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

ZeroG64 said:


> Thank you! I'm pretty new to praying (at least the correct way) but I'll also make mention of my gratitude to you here at SAS in my prayers.


I am not Christian, but I am a theist. I am confused, however, by what you say is "correct prayer." While wording and protocol are important, it's the intention that matters most. If you pray sincerely, humbly, and with an open heart, then you cannot go wrong, IMO.

That said, I agree with what your Mormon friends have advised you - you must follow your heart. If their faith resonates with you - then its divergence from mainstream Christianity (i.e. Joseph Smith & The Book of Mormon) is something you should be willing to embrace.

Best of luck to you on your spiritual journey, and with your sobriety! May your new found faith bring you happiness and peace of mind!


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## Daktoria (Sep 21, 2010)

I dunno. It depends on how hierarchic the particular community is. I knew some Mormons growing up, and they were very humane, light hearted, easy going people. They weren't preachy or intimidating.

What I've heard about the Mormons in Utah though is they're extremely set in their ways and rigid. They don't explain much if anything of what they do in terms of principle. It's all about the word of God (which I guess is OK if you've already reconciled principle in your mind as a defense mechanism so you don't have to review your foundations all the time and can get on with live, but if people aren't reasoned into it, that's rather coercive and delusional).


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Lock Watch****
Some people in this thread can count on receiving a PM from me. I just don't have the time right now.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

vicente said:


> ZeroG64, you seem pretty set on Christianity being the truth. Can I ask you why you haven't considered Hinduism, Sikhism, Baha'ism, Islam, Judaism, or Pastafarianism?
> 
> Of course since most people on this forum think everyone else is a Protestant Christian like them, you're only going to be getting advice pointing you toward their doctrine. Who's to say the New Testament is more divinely inspired than the Book of Mormon or the Qur'an? Who's to say that "John 3:16" has any more meaning than "an invisible pink unicorn rules the universe"?


Hi! Yeah very true, in fact I don't think the BoM does have any greater meaning than the Quran or any oter Holy scripture. I've looked into Hinduism and read a lot about it and it fell in with my beliefs and feelings, same with Krishna Conciousness and the same with the Bible (Christ conciousness). I already said to my missionaries that if the Muslims had got to me first I would have probably converted to them instead.

I think there are many paths to enlightenment and salvation, I know it is said that Jesus is the only way, well I'm not sure...maybe. But what I do know is what I am being taught feels right, plus where I live it is a predominantly white community, I don't know of any Mosque or Hindus in my area (though I'm sure there must be some).

So I choose Christianity, I have been given a date for my Baptism and a date to quite smoking (this coming Monday). I'm just gonna roll with it and see what happens, the only reservations I persoanlly have are how active I will be with the Church, I don't really see myself attending too often but who knows??

Anyway, thanks for raising your points.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Neptunus said:


> I am not Christian, but I am a theist. I am confused, however, by what you say is "correct prayer." While wording and protocol are important, it's the intention that matters most. If you pray sincerely, humbly, and with an open heart, then you cannot go wrong, IMO.
> 
> That said, I agree with what your Mormon friends have advised you - you must follow your heart. If their faith resonates with you - then its divergence from mainstream Christianity (i.e. Joseph Smith & The Book of Mormon) is something you should be willing to embrace.
> 
> Best of luck to you on your spiritual journey, and with your sobriety! May your new found faith bring you happiness and peace of mind!


Thank you so much. That means a lot.


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## Jennifer Clayton (Nov 19, 2010)

I just prayed for you and your journey to learning to believe in Christ. I became a true Christ follower in 2007, and let me tell you it's not really about words, it's about the heart.

Right before I was about to accept Christ, my life was falling apart. I felt like I was in so much emotionally pain that I was about to die. I honestly felt I had no way out, and in my heart I finally said "Okay God, I trust you, I trust you". I felt like he was my last chance. And that's when I really accepted Jesus. It was the act of actually trusting him with everything- with my problems, my insecurities, my anxieties. Trusting him like I trust my best friend. I felt that I might as well try.

And I wasn't disappointed. I started healing emotionally, I felt stronger in my heart than I ever felt before. He healed the damage that I had done to myself over 3 years in roughly 3 months. I actually felt myself heal all that time. It was quite remarkable. I prayed that you understand that it's not simply about a prayer, though prayer is important, but it's about the actual change in heart. It's about trusting him. You can say you trust him, but if you don't mean it, it won't help you. See what I'm getting at? You have to actually feel that trust. I let him have control. Like instead of trying to heal my own heart, I let him lead, and he does a very good job at it. He is a real friend that I call on when I am struggling. It's not easy to put our trust in someone else, but you have to let him start leading you.

I also posted about this here: http://deadwednesdays.wordpress.com/accepting-christ/

Not saying it is an easy journey being a Christian, but at least you always have that hope that he is with you in all you do. 

Bless you, good luck on your journey!


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you very much for your kind message and prayer Jennifer. It's appreciated! 

I should just follow this up with an update as to how things are going.

TBH the last couple of weeks have been pretty tough, I fell into a strange depression which never happens to me and I felt extremely confused. I can't explain quite why, but I felt at that point none of it was helping me. I had a strange feeling that I needed to let go, but I was unsure of what, and/or how to go about doing that..does that make sense? Since then this feeling has passed and I'm feeling much better.

The Elders are still visting me around 3 times a week to discuss the Book of Mormon with me, however as time has moved on and the more I am being taught, the more I find myself disagreeing with many of their beliefs which isn't good as it makes me feel locked into this espeically when I have a Baptism comnig up in around 3 weeks time!  

I have my doubts over some of the teachings and beliefs such as God is a man of flesh and bone, that Jospeh Smith was a prophet (along with the living prophets today) and that he was shown the whereabouts of the goolden plates by an angel, and decipered them with seer stone. I have raised my concerns to the Elders over the indisputable link between Freemasonry and Mormonism. They promised they would address this issue for me but they have failed to do so as of yet.

The absolute WORST teaching is what I was told last night! 

Supposedly, many, many years ago some of mankind was unruly and God punished these people by making their skin dark.  I could truly not believe what I was hearing and when they told me, I said that is a racist teaching and they disagreed. When I pointed out how it so obviously is, they became nervous and stumbled over their words and tried to reassure me that it's all in the past and that they are not rasicts. I mean, I'm confused tbh. It's not going well lol. 

Maybe I should book myself into an 'Alpha Course' after all.

I also dislike some of their teaching methods, when they asked me if I had been reading the BoM I stated to them that I had read a little bit but I had been reading MUCH more of the New Testament and so they decided it best to take it away from me (which they could see I wasn't particularly happy about) leaving me only the BoM to read in some hope that it will force me to read it. Of course, it's had the opposite effect... :sus

ps. I should just say that this teaching based on the dark skin of man was not from the BoM, but allegedly the Old Testament. Now they didn't read the actual verses out to me so I'm unsure how open to interpretation it really is (like I find many of the verses), but that is certainly what they said to me to be the undisputed truth.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

^ If you're having doubts (especially this early in the process), then you need to tell them to back off. Perhaps you should cancel your baptism too. I know it's not easy, but if they have any respect for you as an individual, then they will comply with your wishes.


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

ZeroG64 said:


> ps. I should just say that this teaching based on the dark skin of man was not from the BoM, but allegedly the Old Testament. Now they didn't read the actual verses out to me so I'm unsure how open to interpretation it really is (like I find many of the verses), but that is certainly what they said to me to be the undisputed truth.


This is something called the Curse of Ham that seemed to be popular among racist Christians when racism was in style prior to the 1970's. I didn't know that this was official Latter-day-Saint doctrine until 1978 (!). Wow, I just lost a whole lot of respect for Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.


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## chat1687 (Nov 21, 2010)

im a born again christian,been my whole life, i have alot of mormon friends and i see so much error in the mormon religion that i dnt know how these people dnt see it. the book of mormon contradicts the bible so i dnt get how mormons can try and say they are chrisitian. PLus why wud anyone want to follow josephs smiths teaching when he cheated on his wife over 20 times and had sex with underage girls. does that sound like a man of god to u?


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

I didn't want for this to turn into a Mormon bashing thread. Every one of them that I have met have been the most fantastic people, I must say this, even if I do disagree with some of their teaching methods. From what I have personally read and been taught I have not come across one instance where the BoM contradicts the New Testament? Though I fully admit I'm not amazingly educated on it.



Neptunus said:


> ^ If you're having doubts (especially this early in the process), then you need to tell them to back off. Perhaps you should cancel your baptism too. I know it's not easy, but if they have any respect for you as an individual, then they will comply with your wishes.


Hi, thanks. The thing is I know deep down the Church will only improve my life for the better. I just wish I could take things at my own pace, they said to me I have to have more patience, yet I told them I _am_ very patient but if I didn't have this Baptism hanging over my head then I would feel a lot more comfortable about everything. I think that's putting a lot of pressure on it tbh. Thanks for your suggestion.

I was at least honest with them tonight and told them I feel like I am being pushed, which they said they could understand. At the end of the session I prayed for us all and after we were done and stood back up I could see one of the Elders was very emotional and teary eyed, he then said some pretty meaningful things to me and explained just why he is pushing me so hard. I won't go into what was actually said but it was incredibly touching to be honest and made me have a good think about things.

I have to say without any doubt in my mind, they are the most genuine and kind people you are ever likely to meet. I'd be honoured to call some of these people my friends and if the church can offer me that then I'll be all the better for it. That doesn't solve my confusion and doubt on some issues, but I think I need to read and pray an awful lot more than I currently do! lol

Cheers!


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## Jennifer Clayton (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm glad to see that even with your confusion, you are still having faith. I know some people run away from Christianity without giving it a real chance. You are really giving it a chance. That's all I can ask for. You should definately read the New Testament if that is comfortable for you, because that's all about Jesus. What Christianity is about, anyway. I don't really get why they would take that away from you. A lot of people are too lazy to read it- you actually want to read it. That's an awesome thing.

And the baptism thing.. I honestly don't feel like you should do it until you, in your heart, feel like you are completely ready for it. If you have huge doubts when it comes to the baptism, you should probably wait. Because the point of it is to symbolizes that Jesus forgives your sins and allows you to live a new life. If you don't feel like you are at that point yet, you probably are not ready.

But keep trying! I'm glad that those people were very friendly to you. When I think of Jesus and Christianity, this is what I think of: people with genuine hearts for God who are trying to lead you in the right direction because they really care about you. They reveal to you the true character of God. When you feel how much they care, you also learn that this is the way Jesus cares about us. He is trying to lead us and guide us, and he genuinely loves us. About the confusion- I say that different denominations, i.e. mormon, baptist, episcopal, all have slightly different rules. But the key message to remember in all of it is that Jesus saves you from sin, rescues you from death and gives you a new heart and new life. The slightly different rules are not the main point, Jesus is. So hopefully that will keep you grounded in your confusion. Keep praying.

Again, glad to see you are still moving along in your journey!


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Jennifer, thanks for that. I think you are absolutely right. I'm going to put my Baptism on hold, at least until I know deep in myself that this is the right path for me. I can't say how long that's going to take. I keep praying and I'm reading more, I just find it very hard keeping to some of the commandments.

I don't think I'm ready for the holy spirit yet, it just seems that life can grind me down so I don't have the strength or discipline to do what is needed and abstain from some of the things mentioned earlier in this thread. It's not an easy path I know that much but yeah, I'll keep trying. Thank you! :yes


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

^ Good to know you're not allowing yourself to be pressured into baptism. Spirituality is something that cannot (and should not) be rushed.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Every Christian has his own path - do NOT compare yourself to other people. What you may be going through is different than the next person. You should not be pressured into Baptism. You have to make the decision with God's guidance. 

It took me over a year to get Baptized after joining my last church - it was a spiritually abusive church, though. Even through that, I got saved on my own - no one was to pressure me. If they are pressuring you, tell them that it is between you and God. They can't support that, then that is too bad.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks for that, that makes sense. I'm seeing my Elders tomorrow, I'm going to tell them to put my Baptism on hold till I'm ready. I hope they understand.


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

The younger Mormons have a self-controlled demeanor, but they say they are the only ones that are Christians. They say that pentocostals, Catholics, Methodists, etc. can't be Christians. If you are impressed with their clean-cut and self-controlled demeanor, you will find that in many other non-Mormon churches too. Many good churches are around. I don't understand their Mormon doctrine either. I cannot and don't judge them as people though.


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## ZeroG64 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have heard my Elders refer to themselves as the True Christ Followers (not verbatim) but I've never heard them call themselves the only Christians. They fully admitted to me that there are over 140 different denomination of the LDS alone. It's quite complicated I guess to know who is 100% right, however I would be more inclined to side with non-fundamentalist beliefs.

I told them last night that I want to put my baptism on hold as I am uncomfortable with it atm and they seemed to take it all ok, last night there was a new Elder as the other one has been moved on elsewhere within the England. Along with there was another person from the church who is the chief secretary of the Priesthood (I think). A very nice guy also, who only lives a few doors away.

They all gave me some good advice and that was to pray to God openenly and ask if my Baptsism date is wrong or too early and then try to listening out for any feelings I may get from it. It was also brought up last night abort them running off with my New Testament which everyone had a good chuckle at, but the other Brother who was here (the one higher up in the church) did say he felt it was a wrong thing to do, and a little bit silly as the New Testamant is a fine book to read to lean about Christ. I agree with that and appreciated what he said.

They also taught me the importance of experimenting with God's words, or in other words put them to the test in the outside world. They said they felt that would help me to see this is the right path.

So it's going to take time,. but my Baptism IS going back till well after Christmas. 

Thanks everyone for reading and your responses.


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