# Therapist told me ther is no hope.



## Wintergreen (Mar 5, 2011)

I've been in therapy for about two years, tried CBT, medications, exposure therapy, and I can't remember what else. None of it helped. So now my therapist is saying that there is nothing that can be done to help with my SA. Ever. What should I do? I feel like I've been given a death sentence...


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## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Have you tried Lyrica?


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## debutante (Dec 29, 2009)

Wintergreen said:


> I've been in therapy for about two years, tried CBT, medications, exposure therapy, and I can't remember what else. None of it helped. So now my therapist is saying that there is nothing that can be done to help with my SA. Ever. What should I do? I feel like I've been given a death sentence...


That's a therapist I would no longer see. There is always hope! :squeeze Of course, this will be an uphill battle to change your course and it can be done. Take small steps. Everyday is a new day to try something different, in which results will not always be the same. The good news is you will learn from your experiences.


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## Wintergreen (Mar 5, 2011)

no, I haven't tried lyrica. I didn't even know that was used for anxiety. And thanks for the support, I will be switching therapists soon hopefully.


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## laura024 (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, I think it's time for a fresh perspective from a different therapist.


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## ChrissyQ (Apr 15, 2009)

Therapy isn't helping me much either except i do find group therapy to have helped alot


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Wintergreen said:


> I've been in therapy for about two years, tried CBT, medications, exposure therapy, and I can't remember what else. None of it helped. So now my therapist is saying that there is nothing that can be done to help with my SA. Ever. What should I do? I feel like I've been given a death sentence...


Tell her you want to try a new therapist - that should get her going. I bet she'll think of something else you can do. 

Edit: - Sorry, don't mean to belittle your situation.


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## WanderingSoul (Apr 22, 2012)

Have you tried chamomile tea?


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## Reclus (Jan 11, 2012)

Fire your therapist. What a stupid thing for a health professional to say. SA isn't a terminal disease; tell him/her "we're not talkin' cancer here" and go on your way.

Best wishes


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## yourfavestoner (Jan 14, 2010)

Quite a therapist.

Even if you're privately thinking that, you've got no business saying it. 

Ugh, it frustrates me to hear about garbage therapists.


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## reynoso16 (Sep 14, 2012)

A new therapist sounds like a good idea


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## reynoso16 (Sep 14, 2012)

Im surprised a therapist could even say that like its some kind of uncurable disease.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Reclus said:


> Fire your therapist. What a stupid thing for a health professional to say. SA isn't a terminal disease; tell him/her "we're not talkin' cancer here" and go on your way.
> 
> Best wishes


I would not reject what a therapist says simply because it is negative. Would you like for the therapist to say something positive even if it isn't true?


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

yourfavestoner said:


> Quite a therapist.
> 
> Even if you're privately thinking that, you've got no business saying it.
> 
> Ugh, it frustrates me to hear about garbage therapists.


I'm 47, had lots of therapy with no results to speak of. If a therapist had said this to me, it would have saved me a lot of frustration and a lot of money. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing to say. The usual approach, I would think, is to give the patient false hope so they keep coming in and giving money to the therapist.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Time to find a different therapist.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Wintergreen said:


> I've been in therapy for about two years, tried CBT, medications, exposure therapy, and I can't remember what else. None of it helped. So now my therapist is saying that there is nothing that can be done to help with my SA. Ever. What should I do? I feel like I've been given a death sentence...


Say to your therapist; "Your fired!"






There is hope. Your therapist is an A-hole. There's plenty you can do. Read this and tell me what you think...


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## Solomon's Tomb (Aug 14, 2012)

Sierpinski said:


> I would not reject what a therapist says simply because it is negative. Would you like for the therapist to say something positive even if it isn't true?


First off, I would. Second, that's their job-- to say untrue positive things. They're not real doctors, they just think they are because they have a philosophy major.


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## eclips255 (Aug 8, 2010)

There is always hope. A therapist should never tell you that there is no hope. I would suggest you find a new therapist.


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## pastels (Sep 18, 2012)

onto to the next tHERAPISt...


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Solomon's Tomb said:


> First off, I would. Second, that's their job-- to say untrue positive things. They're not real doctors, they just think they are because they have a philosophy major.


I wonder what you have against philosophy majors. It happens to be my background. I'm not angry. Just curious.


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## Wintergreen (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks for your replies and encouragement. I see the guy tomorrow and will tell him he's fired. He's a lousy therapist but aside from that he's a pretty nice guy. Maybe that's why I haven't fired him yet.



hikkikomori said:


> Have you tried chamomile tea?


Yeah, I'm an avid tea drinker, but I've never tried chamomile as a treatment for anti-anxiety. I'll give it a shot.


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## Solomon's Tomb (Aug 14, 2012)

Sierpinski said:


> I wonder what you have against philosophy majors. It happens to be my background. I'm not angry. Just curious.


I have nothing against philosophy majors, I have something against philosophy majors who use their degree as an excuse to put the title "Doctor" in front of their name and give people "valuable life advice and counseling" for a nominal fee.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Solomon's Tomb said:


> I have nothing against philosophy majors, I have something against philosophy majors who use their degree as an excuse to put the title "Doctor" in front of their name and give people "valuable life advice and counseling" for a nominal fee.


I have a doctorate too, so I am a doctor. But I don't pretend to be able to offer people advice about their lives -- unless I've been doing that here, but obviously I haven't asked for money.


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## WanderingSoul (Apr 22, 2012)

Solomon's Tomb said:


> First off, I would. Second, that's their job-- to say untrue positive things. They're not real doctors, they just think they are because they have a philosophy major.


They're PhDs in psychology, not people with a BA in philosophy.


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## Solomon's Tomb (Aug 14, 2012)

hikkikomori said:


> They're PhDs in psychology, not people with a BA in philosophy.


A PhD is the new equivalent of a Master's Degree. Having a Master's Degree used to mean something, but now it's as good as an Associate's Degree, which is worthless.


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

Have you tried benzo's...


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## et1991 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well your therapist is a ****.


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## Reclus (Jan 11, 2012)

Sierpinski said:


> I would not reject what a therapist says simply because it is negative. Would you like for the therapist to say something positive even if it isn't true?


That's a rhetorical hypothetical sort of question and does not address the OP's concerns. For added clarity, I am not rejecting what their therapist said simply because it is negative, I am rejecting it because it is simply stupid... SA is not an incurable disease, yet nonetheless the OP's therapist has in effect made it look that way.

No one should have to put up with that sort of stuff from a therapist, and I don't care what method they may be using.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Reclus said:


> That's a rhetorical hypothetical sort of question and does not address the OP's concerns. For added clarity, I am not rejecting what their therapist said simply because it is negative, I am rejecting it because it is simply stupid... SA is not an incurable disease, yet nonetheless the OP's therapist has in effect made it look that way.
> 
> No one should have to put up with that sort of stuff from a therapist, and I don't care what method they may be using.


It is not rhetorical, nor is it hypothetical. Psychotherapy is a huge racket, and it is either immoral or stupid to support it as you are doing. People are suffering while others rake in money. It is disgusting, and I am appalled to see it propagated.


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## Kakumbus (Mar 27, 2012)

imo therapist serve more as a mean to vent and talk to someone then find solutions.


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

ive lost count of how many times ive been given up on by people saying theres no hope for me in this and that. corny as it may sound, as long as the will to improve your life is there then there is always hope.


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## JGreenwood (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm wondering what else has gone on here. I'm not saying that for sure this is the case as I don't know the OP. But it sounds like this person has been through a lot to try to overcome their SA that was dictated by this therapist. Perhaps the therapist is saying there is "no hope" because they don't feel like the OP is really doing the work necessary?

Again, I'm not saying this is the case, but I could easily see a scenario where a patient puts in minimal effort expecting optimum results and then gets mad when there isn't a simple, easy magic "cure" to their problems.

Just my $0.02


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## MrWibblyWobbly (Mar 2, 2012)

What, exactly, is the eventual result you want to achieve? Sometimes our expectations and hopes sabotage us. Do you want to never experience anxiety again? Or do you simply want to be able to live with the anxiety so that it doesn't affect your life so much? The former is not possible, and trying to completely squelch all pangs of anxiety will only make your anxiety worse and trap you in a never-ending addiction to symptom-reduction. The latter, however, is very possible and you already have th resources to accomplish it.

However, this means that you have to give up hope that your present moment can be anything other than it is. In Alcoholics Anonymous, they call it a moment of "creative hopelessness" when we give up the struggle to control the uncontrollable (in this case, your anxiety; anxiety comes and it goes as it will -- trying to control it often just stirs up the same stress hormones because you become anxious about your anxiety), and simply learn to accept the cards we've been dealt and do our best to live as meaningful a life as possible.

Right now I'm working with a therapist who uses Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), which is based on the idea that the best course of action for anxiety is to accept the anxiety, identify the things I want to do most in my life, and just go about doing them. My therapist gives me tools to make the anxiety have less control over me (using thought experiments, called "defusion" techniques), but the point is not to make the anxiety go away. It's build a great life.

If you're interested, I recommend Russ Harris' book _The Happiness Trap_. It was worth more to me than a bottle of expensive anxiolytics.


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## Ardi (Sep 20, 2012)

There is always hope, remember that.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

Wintergreen said:


> I've been in therapy for about two years, tried CBT, medications, exposure therapy, and I can't remember what else. None of it helped. So now my therapist is saying that there is nothing that can be done to help with my SA. Ever. What should I do? I feel like I've been given a death sentence...


Your therapist is saying that s/he can't help you. It could be just a clash of personalities thing.
Try something/someone else.


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## wvmtnmama (Sep 16, 2012)

Most therapists, when they discover that they are not experienced or learned enough to help a patient, usually refer them to a more qualified shrink. I think it stinks that she should say that to you just because she/he is lacking in knowledge. Definately, see another shrink. You might even think about calling the AMA and asking if was even an appropriate response from a shrink.


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## doctor007 (Sep 22, 2012)

*here*


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Shocking thing for a therapist to say. Therapists are supposed to be terminally optimistic. They're never supposed to tell a patient that they're a lost cause, even if that's what they honestly believe.

Though I suppose if a therapist truly feels they can't help you they should tell you that they feel it would be best to seek help from another therapist as they are unable to do the job. The other choice is to just waste your time trying what they don't believe will even work.

I'm quite sure there are lost causes. I have no idea if you're one of them though.


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## Paul Hughes 2 (Sep 21, 2012)

Hello all

I don't think there are lost causes. The only time a cause can seem lost is when a person ceases to have any hope in the future. Even then it can be remedied over time. Getting up in the morning is a demonstration of some degree of hope. Anybody who calls me (or any other therapist) isn't in that position. Why see a therapist if there is no hope?

Any therapist who believes a person to be a lost cause should find another career.

I'm not making any comment on the OP's therapist. Clients can sometimes hear things which weren't said. Still, if it were said or if it should ever be said in the future, by any therapist anywhere, it's a very bad thing indeed.

Paul


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## InimitableJeeves (Aug 27, 2012)

That therapist might not have been able to find a way but I'm sure another one can. Never loose hope.


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## sporteous (Mar 26, 2012)

Therapists can only help to an extent, we are the ones who must do some serious work. With the assistance of LSD or some other psychedelic compound, hope is strong.


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## UKPhobe (Oct 22, 2008)

Yeah that's not what a therapist should be saying.

Just out of interest Wintergreen any idea why CBT didn't work for you? How long were you doing it for?


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## wvmtnmama (Sep 16, 2012)

sporteous said:


> Therapists can only help to an extent, we are the ones who must do some serious work. With the assistance of LSD or some other psychedelic compound, hope is strong.


I wouldn't recommend hallucenations for people with Social Anxiety.


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## Manners1994 (Jul 25, 2012)

Wintergreen said:


> I've been in therapy for about two years, tried CBT, medications, exposure therapy, and I can't remember what else. None of it helped. So now my therapist is saying that there is nothing that can be done to help with my SA. Ever. What should I do? I feel like I've been given a death sentence...


*Your therapist is a prick. *


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## sporteous (Mar 26, 2012)

wvmtnmama said:


> I wouldn't recommend hallucenations for people with Social Anxiety.


Read about it, watch some documentaries. Albert Hoffman's potion is a good one. He seems to think it can help individuals overcome fears and so on, as do many others. There have been studies on the benefits of many psychedelics, and they're only just getting started.


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## GameGuy (Oct 5, 2011)

I wouldn't listen to a therapist like that.

In 2008, I was diagnosed with Epilepcy when I had a Gran Mal seizure from too much stress in my life. Then, in 2010, I saw a neurologist for my check up and he told me "You don't have epilespy and I can't even believe you were diagnosed. I think that doctor just quickly diagnosed you to save his own a**."

So you need to keep an watchful eye for people who really want to help you, and people who just see you as some quick $$$.


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## wvmtnmama (Sep 16, 2012)

sporteous said:


> Read about it, watch some documentaries. Albert Hoffman's potion is a good one. He seems to think it can help individuals overcome fears and so on, as do many others. There have been studies on the benefits of many psychedelics, and they're only just getting started.


Don't need to: I was 15 in 1968, I have expeierienced it first hand. I think those of us who did survive the "Haight in '68" had some major personal development issues as a result. These things stunt your emotional growth.


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## wvmtnmama (Sep 16, 2012)

wvmtnmama said:


> Don't need to: I was 15 in 1968, I have expeierienced it first hand. I think those of us who did survive the "Haight in '68" had some major personal development issues as a result. These things stunt your emotional growth.


As for the fear, you won't show any fear while tripping, but I guarantee, you will be very embarrassed after the fact. The last trip I took with a friend, we taped the whole thing. When listening to the tape later we agreed we sounded like to six year olds. Is that what a grown adult wants to sound like - will that make you proud to be in a crowd?


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## Solomon's Tomb (Aug 14, 2012)

Sierpinski said:


> I have a doctorate too, so I am a doctor. But I don't pretend to be able to offer people advice about their lives -- unless I've been doing that here, but obviously I haven't asked for money.


A doctorate is not an MD. Only MDs are really doctors. Anyone can get a doctorate, look at Hunter Thompson, he attained his "doctorate of journalism" through the Universal Life Church. If I wanted to, I could open a new tab in my browser and go to the ULC's website and get a doctorate in any subject I wanted for twenty dollars.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Solomon's Tomb said:


> A doctorate is not an MD. Only MDs are really doctors. Anyone can get a doctorate, look at Hunter Thompson, he attained his "doctorate of journalism" through the Universal Life Church. If I wanted to, I could open a new tab in my browser and go to the ULC's website and get a doctorate in any subject I wanted for twenty dollars.


And you think that MD's are somehow all knowing gods? HAhahaha. I see so many all the time and have to educate them on how to do their jobs. Some ask me to teach them privately through email, or after sessions, others ask me to see their colleagues and educate them, while others think I should write books or become an MD myself.

Doctors are usually overpaid jokes that have an over inflated social status for what little amount of critical thinking that they actually do. Most would rather just treat the same patients with runny noses all day rather than take on any case that requires any thought. Their job looks oh so complicated until you start to educate yourself and realize how pathetic most really are.


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## Solomon's Tomb (Aug 14, 2012)

Noca said:


> And you think that MD's are somehow all knowing gods? HAhahaha. I see so many all the time and have to educate them on how to do their jobs. Some ask me to teach them privately through email, or after sessions, others ask me to see their colleagues and educate them, while others think I should write books or become an MD myself.
> 
> Doctors are usually overpaid jokes that have an over inflated social status for what little amount of critical thinking that they actually do. Most would rather just treat the same patients with runny noses all day rather than take on any case that requires any thought. Their job looks oh so complicated until you start to educate yourself and realize how pathetic most really are.


Still, it's a step up from getting a 'doctorate' in a pseudoscience like psychology.


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## sporteous (Mar 26, 2012)

wvmtnmama said:


> Don't need to: I was 15 in 1968, I have expeierienced it first hand. I think those of us who did survive the "Haight in '68" had some major personal development issues as a result. These things stunt your emotional growth.


I shouldn't of recommended this aspect of therapy because i've not even tried it. But i'm not going to ignore the countless amount of people who've benefited from these substances. Having respect for what psychedelics can do if not respected, should be understood. And taking set and setting into consideration. I don't know if anyone else thinks these can benefit people, but god damn it i do. If i was going to take any psychedelics it would be in a super comfortable place with the one friend i have and intend to delve deep into the inner universe that is myself. 
I hope you've to any extent managed to recover from those experiences.


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## Mlochail (Jul 11, 2012)

First; the cure for SA isn't 'out there somewhere' or in 'pill form.'
No, it lies deep within. But, you'll have to be prepared to dig deep. You may come across lots of thing you do not like even hate, but just keep digging and you WILL find what you seek.

There IS hope, until you give up on yourself that is.


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## wvmtnmama (Sep 16, 2012)

sporteous said:


> I shouldn't of recommended this aspect of therapy because i've not even tried it. But i'm not going to ignore the countless amount of people who've benefited from these substances. Having respect for what psychedelics can do if not respected, should be understood. And taking set and setting into consideration. I don't know if anyone else thinks these can benefit people, but god damn it i do. If i was going to take any psychedelics it would be in a super comfortable place with the one friend i have and intend to delve deep into the inner universe that is myself.
> I hope you've to any extent managed to recover from those experiences.


You state right here what I'm talking about. It's one thing to take it in a safe, serene environment with a friend, but to take it theraputically, it is not feasible or possible to go to work, go shopping and live daily life in any kind of normal way. You just can't hallucinate your way throught work or the grocery store. I remember sitting down to dinner with my parents one night while still tripping trying to eat speghetti. I couldn't tell if I was swallowing it so I had to excuse myself, go to the bathroom and look in the mirror to see if I had. The problem was, I wasn't sure if I had actually gotten up from the table and gone into the bathroom to do that, or just thought I had. See what I mean. Not a real confidence boost. And, thank you, yes I have recovered. I just think that while I was busy doing that I could have been learning some of life's real lessons - just had some catching up to do. 1968 was a long time ago. There are alot of growing pains (emotional) for young adults in their late teens to mid-late twenties. You are loosing your childhood identity and becoming an individual adult and meeting new friends in areas outside of school. There's alot to learn before you can be sure of yourself maneuvering around in the new environments. LSD was originally experimented with to help schizophrenics but the experiments failed. Scientists are still trying to find a good use for it.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

I dropped a lot of acid in college. The first time I did it I had a really bad trip. I dropped *four *hits. It was my sister's prom, I was there to tag along & party. I tried to jump off of a balcony at the hotel. I tried to gouge my eyes out, because I didn't like what I was seeing...my friends had to throw me onto a hotel bed, and sit on my arms and legs to keep me from doing it. I had scratches on my face later. I literally went crazy for about 48 hours. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend it for therapeutic purposes. Not for SA.

I do think you should change therapists. I'm 42 years old, and I haven't changed much in the last 25 years or so. I know that's sad, but, I really haven't. About six months ago I was put on Lithium. It seems to be working for me OK. IDK, there may be something better out there. But it's worked better than anything else has so far. And my sypmtoms haven't changed in the last 25 years. I've been going to doctors constantly. So I guess I finally found a dr that got the meds right, or close anyway.

I really think it's a guessing game. I really believe that most of the time, the pdocs I've seen just guess at what meds they think will work. Kind of like playing the lottery.


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## swallowtail1002 (Dec 10, 2012)

my therapist just told my significant other with out me present i could not change. 1 iam a therapist and all my collegues changing the identity of situation said the following. dont go back he is damaging, broke confidentially, poor practise, sue, therapist should bring hope to the relationship. none of this is new but the anger dissapoitment once manage move on. the field now looks at treatment about for all problems learning the skills to change, never be with a therapist who feels there is no hope.


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## karunaji (Oct 17, 2012)

MrWibblyWobbly said:


> What, exactly, is the eventual result you want to achieve? Sometimes our expectations and hopes sabotage us. Do you want to never experience anxiety again? Or do you simply want to be able to live with the anxiety so that it doesn't affect your life so much? The former is not possible, and trying to completely squelch all pangs of anxiety will only make your anxiety worse and trap you in a never-ending addiction to symptom-reduction. The latter, however, is very possible and you already have th resources to accomplish it.


Hear, hear!

My therapist also said that it is not possible be free from SA. It is my understanding as well that it is incurable. It bothered me for a while until I realized that acceptance can practically eliminate its effect on me. I have made a great progress in a few months. The hardest thing is to recognise anxiety at the time when it is happening. I have lived with it without understanding what's happening that it is not easy to separate my real "me" from an affected one. I sometimes visualize the anxiety as an invisible wall that stands between me and others and prevents me from talking to them. It is possible to communicate to others, I just have to take this wall into account. Ignoring it only creates confusion and suffering. Rather one should accomodate the circumstances, attitude and approaches, so that it all happens despite this wall or anxiety.

It's like a person without legs who is confused why he cannot move around like other people. And then the same person sitting happily in a wheelchair, using access designed for disabled and sometimes asking for extra help and ultimately going to the same places as everybody else. There is no reason to despair. Some can even do more, like that person who had lost his legs and later climbed the Everest. Most of fully abled people will never do that in their lives.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

I think that for people with real SAD good medication is imperative. The trouble is that the doctors are prescribing the wrong things most of the time.

When I described SA to my mum she told me that sometimes she feels like that but I wasn't convinced that she truly understood what I was getting at. After some strategic questioning I established that she has self esteem issues and suffers from intermittent episodes of depression where upon she experiences a certain degree of social anxiety. But that doesn't mean that she suffers from social anxiety disorder.

I am fairly convinced that my dad had SAD_(in all probability; still has - but I haven't seen him for 15 years)_ and that it is primarily a genetic trait. I do not have any schizotypal traits and I don't have any significant self esteem issues so I feel that CBT is of limited efficacy.

I don't suffer from depression so even if it could be said that SRI's are effective for depression, which is highly questionable, I feel that they will be of no use to me. Through my research I have come to the conclusion that the dysfunction ultimately lies with the glutamatergic system and has very little to do with serotonin. I haven't finished working on my theory and I have been developing a new hypothesis of late; given that antagonism of the NMDA receptor slows the downregulation of D2 receptors I wonder whether the reduced D2 receptor binding seen in people with SAD is perhaps a result of an over active glutamatergic system. Over expression of the NMDA receptors, over excitability of the glutamatergic neurons and an imbalance of calcium/magnesium in the CNS are all possible components.

The search continues...

lol


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