# Being the guy friend is tough...



## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

I have a female friend I recently met who is younger, although that doesn't affect our relationship as she is very mature and independent. I have and have had other platonic female friends over the years who that are more casual (hang out in groups / see each other every month or so). 

Yet, when I was introduced to this girl, we instantly hit it off -- I don't think I've met anyone that shares my sense of humor and personality as much as her. We hang out often and text / message each other almost every day (mostly her initiation at first, she was new to town and didn't know hardly anyone). 

Of course I've started to like her -- she just naturally grew on me and I opened up and let her into my life, which is a rare occurrence. I get the sense that she sees me as a 'guy friend', almost like her mind was made up before we were introduced -- yet I spend way more time with her and give her way more attention than I give any of my other friends, and she knows it. We just enjoy being around each other, and other people can clearly see this.

The most difficult part is not dealing with the fact that I like her and she just thinks of me as a friend (I have reasons for thinking this), it's that for once I have someone to do things with on the weekend, someone that gets me -- being around her is effortless. I can't talk openly with my guy friends, we just don't have that type of relationship, but with her it's different. But, the toughest part is I know all of this will come to a screeching halt the moment she gets a boyfriend.

It's hard getting over the feeling of 'I'm good enough' for now. It's hard when because of SAD, there's an imbalance in our relationship, she is just way more likely to find a boyfriend than I am to find a girlfriend in the near future. It's hard getting emotionally invested in someone, who you know is simply not going to be there soon...


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## Zuzu (Dec 6, 2010)

Ive had a friend like that for the past 3 years, he's always been there for me like how you are for her, course the difference is I have SA.

but over the past 3 years hes just been my friend, I've dated at least 5 guys through out that time, including his friends, and brother.
But now I'm single and I don't talk to any of them anymore, BUT I'm still best friends with that guy...

whats the point of dating if the longest relationship I've EVER had in my life is with my friend? I'm never going to date this friend of mine, why fix whats not broken?

I'll never have a relationship better then what I have with this friend of mine, I'll go through BF's and he'll still be there with his sassy remarks when I break up with one after the other. and when I turn 30 and feel like I don't wanna date anymore maybe I'll look to my friend and say "hey buddy, were inseparable, and I love you man! lets go get married now for the benefits" and he would so do it.
.............
.............
don't look at me like that, lol
Im totally serious! XD
but if i date this guy right now I'll just **** it up like how I **** up all my relationships. so I won't......EVER!~ 

being the friend is better sometimes!


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## Wrangler (Oct 3, 2010)

Wow. You guys are kind of describing my current situation, except I once did date this person. However, trying to be friends afterward has resulted in a pretty crappy situation for me.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

I don't think it has to come to a "screaching halt" once she gets a boyfriend, I was in a very similar situation with a girl once, but she already had a bf when I met her (he didn't like me and his gf getting on so well) but it didn't get in the way of friendship.

But yeah, if things are as you say then she'll never go out with you, best not to obsess over girls who think of you as long term close friends - they are lost causes in the relationship department. And even if they weren't, I gradually built up a great friendship with a girl once, then she decided she liked me as more than a friend, never having had a GF before and being male I took her up on this, we went out - and that totally destroyed everything. I don't think it is a good idea to try dating one's female friends, it is weird and awkward going from friends to being in a relationship, and when you inevitably break up you have lost a good friend - and all the social connections you had through them - and possibly made several enemies in the process.


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## AlisonWonderland (Nov 4, 2010)

You don't actually know this friendship is going to come to a screeching halt if she gets a boyfriend.
It might, but really - if you're that important to her, she's not going to let a new guy get in the way of that.
Go with your instinct, what would a relationship be like with her? Would she like to be in a relationship with you? 
What is she going to be looking for in a boyfriend? Are you going to be able to match up to her expectations - taking her out on dates, etc etc?
Find out what she's wanting first, talking to her about what sort of relationship she'd like might give her the hint of what you're looking for, and she might make the first move anyway .


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Johnny_Genome said:


> It's hard getting over the feeling of 'I'm good enough' for now. It's hard when because of SAD, there's an imbalance in our relationship, she is just way more likely to find a boyfriend than I am to find a girlfriend in the near future. It's hard getting emotionally invested in someone, who you know is simply not going to be there soon...


Now I am no agony aunt so my advice isn't the wisdom of the gods, but...

If you're not good enough now, what will make you good enough later? You're 'guy friend'. There is no rising from that station unless she is 35 and childless and gets baby fever or something.

Cut your losses. Get some new friends. Wean yourself away.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

heroin said:


> Now I am no agony aunt so my advice isn't the wisdom of the gods, but...
> 
> If you're not good enough now, what will make you good enough later? You're 'guy friend'. There is no rising from that station unless she is 35 and childless and gets baby fever or something.
> 
> Cut your losses. Get some new friends. Wean yourself away.


I guess the reason I said I'm not good enough, is because when we met she was at a point where she needed a friend, someone she could trust in a new intimidating city. She didn't need a boyfriend at that point. It was an anachronism that we met when we did. If she were already settled in and made a few friends before we met, then perhaps things would have turned out different.

But 'cutting her loose' or abandoning her is not an option for me -- I care about her, and she has done nothing to me...


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

AlisonWonderland said:


> You don't actually know this friendship is going to come to a screeching halt if she gets a boyfriend.
> It might, but really - if you're that important to her, she's not going to let a new guy get in the way of that.
> Go with your instinct, what would a relationship be like with her? Would she like to be in a relationship with you?
> What is she going to be looking for in a boyfriend? Are you going to be able to match up to her expectations - taking her out on dates, etc etc?
> Find out what she's wanting first, talking to her about what sort of relationship she'd like might give her the hint of what you're looking for, and she might make the first move anyway .


I'm pretty sure I do meet or exceed her expectations -- I think sometimes, that's what puts me deeper in the 'friend zone'. Like she doesn't want to destroy what works, and she gets everything out of the relationship she needs without the intimacy. Take away the official titles of GF / BF and the intimacy, and that's what we are. We go to concerts, movies, dinner, or just hang out etc. (I'm not implying she's taking advantage of me, because that's not the case, we split the costs or take turns paying for each other etc.). That's what makes it so hard, it's like having a girlfriend, but not...


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

Confess your love to her and she will give you sex.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

Resonance said:


> I don't think it has to come to a "screaching halt" once she gets a boyfriend...


Some of this will probably come from me, out of respect. I doubt any guy would be happy to have his girlfriend hanging out alone with her single guy friend she met a few months before. It's one thing if we had been friends for years...


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## Rubisco (Nov 20, 2010)

I realize that it might be tough for guys, but the "guy-friend" role is important for girls. At least for myself, I love having a couple of guy-friends to talk to... they are less complicated and touchy than girls and tend to make excellent conversation partners. I'm more likely to open up and talk to one of my guy-friends about my problems or whatever than a friend of the same sex. 

Don't be too hard on yourself! If you two are really close as friends, she probably won't leave you if she gets a boyfriend. I know if I ever got a boyfriend (haha, like that'll ever happen...), I'd still be loyal to my guy-friends.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

We want to be **** buddies not guy friends


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## Rubisco (Nov 20, 2010)

mbp86 said:


> We want to be **** buddies not guy friends


So does this apply to _every_ single girl that you get to know? *rolls eyes* I'd hope guys would be smarter and rise above their instincts by being more selective.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

http://www.theonion.com/articles/but-if-we-started-dating-it-would-ruin-our-friends,11473/


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

I have been on the other end of this equation a number of times, but things were different. In every case, the female friend who 'fell' for me was somehow unavailable, so I choose not to pursue a relationship. I am always seen as an escape, and I guess I tired of just being just an escape from a girl's bad relationships. 

In college, an attractive friend was pursuing me heavily, problem was she was married. Later on another casual friend who was married tricked me into a 'date' and told me she had thoughts of leaving her husband at the altar for me (this was one of the few times I was completely blind-sighted in my life). Another girl, who I actually liked, would pursue me heavily, while still having these other guys / ex's always on the periphery.

I blame most if not all of my relationship issues on SAD. Most of these girls were more the 'aggressive' types, which I kind of like being shy. I guess it would be nice to be liked for once from someone who is available and willing to give me chance.

And I know that some people will assume that because I want more out of this friendship it all relates simply back to sex / physical attraction. But the reality is, a friend is just a friend. Friends will decide next week that they are going to move to another country, and they leave. Friends decide next month they are going to get married and you see them once a year. Friends, at least in my circles are temporary, nomadic, impulsive. You have little value in their long term plans. I've moved many times myself, and I never based my decisions on whether my friends would miss me. I would like a relationship where I could actually think more long term, come to decisions together, a shared relationship. I can only invest so much in a friendship, because if I invest everything, then I will surely be alone in the end.


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## Smallfry (Oct 11, 2004)

Perhaps if distanced yourself more you might get a chance at becoming her boyfriend...


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Rubisco said:


> I realize that it might be tough for guys, but the "guy-friend" role is important for girls. At least for myself, I love having a couple of guy-friends to talk to... they are less complicated and touchy than girls and tend to make excellent conversation partners. I'm more likely to open up and talk to one of my guy-friends about my problems or whatever than a friend of the same sex.
> 
> Don't be too hard on yourself! If you two are really close as friends, she probably won't leave you if she gets a boyfriend. I know if I ever got a boyfriend (haha, like that'll ever happen...), I'd still be loyal to my guy-friends.


The problem is that these types of relationships are *usually* one-sided. Some guys may genuinely enjoy having close* platonic female friends, but they're probably in the minority.

What's worse is when the girl _knows_ this is the case, and uses the guys' suppressed feelings to her advantage. I've seen that happen too many times to count. I'm not saying you're like that, but you have to understand that getting close to a guy who you clearly have zero sexual interest in could ultimately lead to bitterness on his part.

*Notice I said "close" female friends, not just any female friends. Obviously, it's totally normal to have a group of friends of which both sexes are a part. But I still contend that when a male-female friendship reaches the point that they're spending a lot of time together with just each other, ulterior motives from one party are in play 90% of the time.



Rubisco said:


> So does this apply to _every_ single girl that you get to know? *rolls eyes* I'd hope guys would be smarter and rise above their instincts by being more selective.


Fair point. (And I think I pretty much gave my opinion on this matter in the reply to your first post above).

But, on the flip side, what is it that distinguishes your "guy friends" from your potential boyfriends? And, more to the point, why _shouldn't_ we feel insulted when you'll consider us the former when it's to your advantage, but never the latter?


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

Smallfry said:


> Perhaps if distanced yourself more you might get a chance at becoming her boyfriend...


Yes, I have actually just recently introduced her to a girl I knew (more of an acquaintance). I could sense she was looking for a female friend, and it seems they have hit it off. I think they're going to go out, hitting the town. I think it will give her a little perspective on me. I fully expect her to be hit on by guys etc. and maybe date, and I'm fine with that. I would rather be the guy she chooses, not the only guy she knows. I don't know how it will turn out, but I've tried to do the right thing for her on every move. Maybe it will work out in my favor, maybe not. Either way, I'm pretty sure we will always be some type of friends.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

There's a difference between 'friend' and 'guy friend'. You can be a guy and have a platonic friendship with a girl. That's no big deal, and it's even healthy. You are just like any other friend. Hanging out once in a while, inviting each other to birthday parties, etc. All that is cool.

Being a 'guy friend' is not healthy. You become a guy friend if you're the guy who's listening to her lamenting her love life and "being there" any time she needs you to, like you don't have your own problems to worry about. Just as much as the "guy friend role" is important to girls as noted above by a female poster, being in the guy friend role is not good for guys. Let the women talk to their female friends about the relationshippy stuff and how their last boyfriend was an arsehole.

Having said that, it's your life to do with as you please. Pay no heed to what I say if you don't agree.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

I do appreciate everyone's advice -- I'm a little hard-headed, and also believe there are no hard rules in relationships. I have been to told by many people (in the offline) to move on it will never work. I do however believe, if you meet someone special, you shouldn't let them slip away without trying. She's worth it. 

It's all a bit more complicated than I originally posted. I actually met her years ago on the other side of the country. We were re-introduced here, after both of us moved. It's likely, regardless of what happens, that I will always know her...


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## Emptyheart (Sep 15, 2009)

How do you know she doesn't feel the same way too?
Maybe deep inside she likes you but doesn't want to say it.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

Emptyheart said:


> How do you know she doesn't feel the same way too?
> Maybe deep inside she likes you but doesn't want to say it.


I think on some level she does, but then she does things that are opposite of what I would think someone who likes you would do. This mainly involves my guy friends I introduced her to (this is a whole other story I posted about a while ago, where my single friends basically started vying for her attention ). Basically, we do spend a decent amount of time alone together, but she is always inviting my friend along. She has no interest in this friend (he is older than me, and I'm about at the top edge of her dating range, and she has flat out told me she has no interest in him). She doesn't like hanging around him alone (she just doesn't find him that interesting and he irritates her), but she feels the need to invite him (he lives next to her). So we end up alone a lot only because these friends are unavailable, or not interested in what we are doing. To me it's almost like she's trying to remind me that we are just friends. If you like someone, you wouldn't always be inviting someone else along. Most of the time, even with my guy friends, I tend to spend a lot of one on one time. So it's pretty frustrating. But when we're alone, there's definitely some type of chemistry between us. A female acquaintance of mine said she thought she was totally into me when we all hung out one night.

She is either trying to protect our friendship by not letting things get too far (by keeping this atmosphere of 'we're all just a group of friends here'), or she genuinely thinks of me as only a friend. People comment that we look like a couple, it's kind of just assumed when we're out. So it's not a matter of 'what's she doing with him' and I'm just fantasizing about an out of reach girl. I have always been the type who doesn't assume little things mean a girl likes you. Most of time, girls had to flat out tell me. So when you get a lot of the signs, but then her actions don't match, I have to go with her actions.

Anyway, she has expressed interest in going out of town for the holidays (neither of us are flying back home to the east coast). This sounds like a great opportunity for our relationship, but I know that if I organized a trip she would mention it to my other guy friends, and they would want to go. I will not play games or go behind her back and ask my guy friends not to come along (although they would do me that favor). So, I'm simply not going to plan anything...


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

I think you should take a chance & tell her how you really feel, I mean you seem pretty confident the friendship will endure no matter what so when you find a moment go for it


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

If you do nothing, you lose.


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## woot (Aug 7, 2009)

Too much thinking and analyzing. Tell her how you feel. Stop playing mental games.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Reading your latest post sort of gave me a lump in my throat. This sounds eerily similar to a situation I was in several years ago. Looking back, it was probably the low point of my life so far, even though at the time I was convinced that I was so lucky to have a "great female friend."

heroin is absolutely right lol) -- *being "the guy friend" is not healthy for the guy*. Period. Girls adore the arrangement, but it's unnatural and destructive for us. She's taking advantage of you, and has to realize it on some level. Of course, you'll respond with three paragraphs' worth of reasons why this isn't true, and tell me how much of a positive she's been to your life. I know; I've been there. It didn't end well, to say the least.

The worst part is, I don't even know what my advice to you is. I remember being so deep into this rabbit hole that I couldn't even contemplate any alternative to clinging to the girl I'd foolishly built my entire life around. That's really why I kept justifying it, I think. If I'd had more real friends at the time, I may well have pulled back a lot sooner (she roped me into this mess at a vulnerable time; I'd just arrived at college from across the country and didn't know a soul). From your description, it sounds like you at least have a network of friends, but you aren't nearly as close with any of them as you are the girl. That's exactly what I remember, too: we had mutual friends and acquaintances we'd made in the first weeks/months of school that I didn't really want involved when we did stuff, but she'd always ask them along anyway, despite thinking they were "so annoying" when we talked about them privately.

If you have enough hobbies and/or other friends to occupy your time and get her off your mind, I'd suggest backing off in a rapid and blatantly-obvious manner (that way, if she *is* interested, she'll be forced to act on it). But I know from experience that taking this advice borders on the impossible. I had probably a dozen people tell me the same thing, and I never even so much as considered it. SA is an unbelievably vicious cycle, isn't it? Gives us hell with dating and women our whole lives, and then when we finally have one in our lives, we get infinitely more naive and attached because we don't have enough other people in our lives!


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

The reason why I'm hesitating saying anything at this point is: past experience. Again she is younger, and I've gone through something similar before, except in that case the girl liked me. But she was in a phase in her life where she was 'exploring her options'. I'm not interested in a two week fling. This current girl gets a lot of attention from guy friends back home -- and she knows to a certain extent they like her (she's a very smart girl and we talk about these things). In some ways (and I'm not saying this in a negative way), she likes the attention from guys she's not interested in, and the attention even my friends give her, and certainly my attention. Whether these are true options or not, they feel like options to her. We joke around about this stuff, like the guy friends who keep trying to get her into a marriage pact if they reach a certain age etc...

So it's me against a world of guys, but the thing is, I'm pretty confident that the type of guys she will be meeting in the near future will be immature jerks. At the risk of sounding egotistical, I'm pretty confident in the person I have become. In spite of severe SAD all my life, people tend to like me, and certainly respect and trust me. I live a somewhat interesting life and have an interesting career and know some of the most successful people and some of the most down and out people. If nothing happens between me and her, she has at least inspired me to put myself out there more.

But, I feel like she has to go through this stage. I'm at a point when I can see and know the type of girl I could spend my life with; she's not at this point. I would rather her date around a little, meet some people, and then come to her decision.

In the meantime, I have a pretty full calendar with work. I'm not obsessed or unable to work because of her. I started this post mainly because I've read many posts on here or other places where girls get upset when their guy friends fall for them. I was just trying to give a perspective of the other side. 

I already told her I was getting burnt out of hanging around my guy friend. I think she got the picture. I have introduced her to a female friend, and they are starting to go out. I have tried to do everything in her interest, because she is a cool person and I care for her. I think we'll naturally pull apart for a while, and then, if she comes back and shows real interest, we'll talk. There is a window of opportunity for all of this to happen, and I know this. But sometimes you have to pick the right time.


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

It's almost scary how similar this is to the situation I'm currently in, and how much it can be related to Anomalous' post. I've tried ignoring her at times, but then she just gets really upset. I willingly listen to her issues because I want to be the kind of person that you can always rely on. My dependence on her really gets to me though. I don't really get the same kind of excitement out of talking to her with anyone else. At times I believe she doesn't really care for me as much as I do for her. I try to move on and detach, but then she gets upset as I previously mentioned so I go back to being close friends with her, and thus the cycle continues. I think the only way I can rid these feelings is if I actually find someone to be with in an actual monogamous relationship, while still maintaining a strong friendship with her. I've only really noticed how lonely I am recently...


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

anomalous said:


> Reading your latest post sort of gave me a lump in my throat. This sounds eerily similar to a situation I was in several years ago. Looking back, it was probably the low point of my life so far, even though at the time I was convinced that I was so lucky to have a "great female friend."
> 
> heroin is absolutely right lol) -- *being "the guy friend" is not healthy for the guy*. Period. Girls adore the arrangement, but it's unnatural and destructive for us. She's taking advantage of you, and has to realize it on some level. Of course, you'll respond with three paragraphs' worth of reasons why this isn't true, and tell me how much of a positive she's been to your life. I know; I've been there. It didn't end well, to say the least.
> 
> ...


I know it's easy to think that these things never work out, but that is not reality. Maybe they rarely work out, but I think that can be said of most relationships. I heard an interview with Al Roker the other week, he was deep in the friend zone for months, even running her errands while she was dating other men. Now they are married. Supposedly Nixon would even drive his future wife on her dates with other men. The ability to actually be friends and trust and enjoy spending time with someone does not mean they can't be romantic partners -- it actually should probably be a prerequisite. Some of the best relationships I know are based on strong friendships.

I am keeping a level head with all of this. I have other friends I can hang out with and I'm not particularly lonely -- I don't have a whole bunch of free time outside work. I just don't really care to hang out with these particular guy friends three times a week. It's simply nice and refreshing and fun to spend time with a girl.

I can't say she is taking advantage of me. I like hanging out with her and she likes hanging out with me. If I didn't like spending time with her, I wouldn't. She's not wasting my time even if she doesn't like me.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Johnny_Genome said:


> I know it's easy to think that these things never work out, but that is not reality. Maybe they rarely work out, but I think that can be said of most relationships. I heard an interview with Al Roker the other week, he was deep in the friend zone for months, even running her errands while she was dating other men. Now they are married. Supposedly Nixon would even drive his future wife on her dates with other men. The ability to actually be friends and trust and enjoy spending time with someone does not mean they can't be romantic partners -- it actually should probably be a prerequisite. Some of the best relationships I know are based on strong friendships.
> 
> I am keeping a level head with all of this. I have other friends I can hang out with and I'm not particularly lonely -- I don't have a whole bunch of free time outside work. I just don't really care to hang out with these particular guy friends three times a week. It's simply nice and refreshing and fun to spend time with a girl.
> 
> I can't say she is taking advantage of me. I like hanging out with her and she likes hanging out with me. If I didn't like spending time with her, I wouldn't. She's not wasting my time even if she doesn't like me.


It sounds like I may have misjudged the situation, then. If you're really able to keep things in perspective and stay realistic despite your feelings for her, good for you. You're a stronger and more grounded man than I (and most, probably).

I suppose the ultimate test is to sit and imagine what it would _really_ be like if she suddenly picked up a serious boyfriend tomorrow, and they ended up spending their lives together. If that really wouldn't be devastating to you, then nothing I said in my other post applies, and it sounds like you have nothing to lose by continuing your friendship.


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

heroin said:


> There's a difference between 'friend' and 'guy friend'. You can be a guy and have a platonic friendship with a girl. That's no big deal, and it's even healthy. You are just like any other friend. Hanging out once in a while, inviting each other to birthday parties, etc. All that is cool.
> 
> Being a 'guy friend' is not healthy. You become a guy friend if you're the guy who's listening to her lamenting her love life and "being there" any time she needs you to, like you don't have your own problems to worry about. Just as much as the "guy friend role" is important to girls as noted above by a female poster, being in the guy friend role is not good for guys. Let the women talk to their female friends about the relationshippy stuff and how their last boyfriend was an arsehole.
> 
> Having said that, it's your life to do with as you please. Pay no heed to what I say if you don't agree.


Wow, I never thought about that, the difference between guy "friend" and "guy friend," as you describe.

I've been in "guy friend" situations a few times and I end up being disappointed and bitter about it. I'm not gonna lie, it's gonna very hard for me to just be the guy "friend" without wanting to bone her, especially if she's attractive.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Full of Empty said:


> I'm not gonna lie, it's gonna very hard for me to just be the guy "friend" without wanting to bone her, especially if she's attractive.


How dare you? If you really were a nice guy you'd have no such sordid expectations.


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

heroin said:


> How dare you? If you really were a nice guy you'd have no such sordid expectations.


 :? That illustrates the nice guy in a creepy way.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Full of Empty said:


> :? That illustrates the nice guy in a creepy way.


Yes. And that's why I posted it. Nice guy (used interchangeably with 'guy friend' here, because they're the same person) is a creep because he wants to have a sexual relationship with the girl.


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

heroin said:


> Yes. And that's why I posted it. Nice guy (used interchangeably with 'guy friend' here, because they're the same person) is a creep because he wants to have a sexual relationship with the girl.


What straight guy wouldn't want to if he finds her attractive.

Doesn't make him a creep, dammit. :mum


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

Full of Empty said:


> What straight guy wouldn't want to if he finds her attractive.
> 
> Doesn't make him a creep, dammit. :mum


It depends what you mean. If you find her attractive and have had involuntary sexual thoughts about her, I don't see anything wrong with that. If you intentionally pressure her into sexual acts or if the friendship is based on ulterior motives that's bad. I'm not saying you're guilty of that, but I think that's the idea that Heroin had.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

anomalous said:


> It sounds like I may have misjudged the situation, then. If you're really able to keep things in perspective and stay realistic despite your feelings for her, good for you. You're a stronger and more grounded man than I (and most, probably).
> 
> I suppose the ultimate test is to sit and imagine what it would _really_ be like if she suddenly picked up a serious boyfriend tomorrow, and they ended up spending their lives together. If that really wouldn't be devastating to you, then nothing I said in my other post applies, and it sounds like you have nothing to lose by continuing your friendship.


Well, I wasn't grounded a while ago -- I had a lot of frustration with my guy friend. It has a lot to do with SAD though I realize. Because it's hard for me to make friends and meet girls, I was pretty upset when he suddenly appeared from nowhere, and wanted to hang around because she was over, and started inviting her places without me knowing. I felt like saying, 'go find your own friends'. I didn't say anything though (as she is free to do as she wants as he is) -- I was unable to concentrate though I was so upset. Then she moved right next to him and I really lost it. But I just gave it some time, and she slowly started telling me how frustrating hanging around him is etc.. This happened to a lessor degree with a second guy friend.

Things were always plutonic between all of them, but it was just irritating as they were 'booking' her calendar with free tickets etc. and there was little time for me and her to get to know each other. She was bored and didn't know anyone so she went along.

So I guess I've kind of gone through a lot of the non-level headedness of it all and have come out the other side to see things more clearly. I'm okay if she falls in love with some other guy. It would be much harder to take if that other guy were a friend of mine. If I thought for a minute that she was more compatible with someone else I knew, I would even set her up. But it's simply like one of those random cosmic events, where you meet someone so similar to you, that you have ask yourself, how many people like her are out there. Now maybe she doesn't see things like this at all, and I'm just another a guy friend to her -- I'll move on if that's the case, and we'll remain friends. But it would be probably the biggest regret in my life to just, 'move on' and assume that because we are friends that we'll be nothing more.

Some crazy but good things have happened in my life, but looking back, none of them were really just plain luck. They all came down to hard work, persistence, 'following your bliss', and (trying) to always treat people with kindness and respect. So I've got to just keep following this path.


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## destructionterror (Dec 18, 2010)

If I ever have female friends, I have an odd feeling I will be the "guy friend".

****...


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## baseballdude (May 23, 2010)

There are some really depressing threads on this site, but I think this one takes the cake...


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

destructionterror said:


> If I ever have female friends, I have an odd feeling I will be the "guy friend".
> 
> ****...


Why? Just treat her like any other friend. Don't do any special favours for her. And when she does the usual teary-eyed "I'm upset, please ask me what it's about" thing, instead of saying "Are you OK?" say "Do you want me to leave you alone for a bit?". She will most likely say yes.

In short, think of her as a male friend, you get together to do some cool stuff, talk about random crap etc. But never talk about touchy-feely stuff. You wouldn't console a crying dude. No need to do it for girls you aren't already in a romance with. Equality of the sexes, etc.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

A bit of an update if anyone is interested.

I've basically given up on the whole more than friends thing for now -- I believe that she is desperately trying to protect our friendship, and if it's that important to her right now I want to respect that. She's in a place right now where getting attention from guys is not hard, so I'm sure she doesn't see any reason to ruin one of her few friendships.

I'm still not sure why she insists on inviting my guy friend along to everything we do (she can hang out with him whenever she wants, he lives right by her, but she rarely does); we'll plan something out that we both like to do (her initiation), then when I show up, she'll tell me she has invited my friend along -- so inevitably things get delayed and bogged down instead of just having a fun simple day. I'm also a pretty independent autonomous person and it's just a little frustrating as I'm not the type of person who consistently hangs out with the same group of friends. I'll go to dinner with one, lunch with another, to a movie or music show with another. I just don't have a huge amount of free time, so I'd rather spend quality time.

Anyway, I planned out a holiday weekend, I said I'm going and anyone who wants to join is welcome. I'm not going to let all this affect what I want to do. She is coming, probably my 'guy friend' and maybe another girl or two. I'm just going to have a good time, and forget about the rest of it.

We are still really close, and I think at some point this will all resurface, but for now, unless she shows some clear sign that she interested I'm just going to let it be.


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## Judith (Sep 27, 2008)

I was recently the girl in a situation just like this. This guy has become an amazing friend to me but I could never see him as anything more. To me he was like a brother. Then he recently revealed his feelings for me. I respect him for being honest and taking the risk in telling me, but when I told him how I felt it really broke his heart. I would've been happy to pick things up where we left off like nothing was different, but he said it was too hard to be my friend anymore. I was mad at him for hurting me but at the same time I felt bad for unintentionally hurting him as well. I guess he liked me as more than a friend for a while but preferred to hold on to the slight hope that maybe one day I'd finally fall for him than accept the truth that we'll never be more than friends. 

I'm not saying this will be the outcome in your situation. For all we know she could very well have reciprocated feelings. Even though my friendship ended tragically, I think those things needed to be said. I didn't want him to feel lead on any more. And now I've come to realize it's not appropriate for me to be best friends with a guy who sees me as something more when I'm in a relationship.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Judith said:


> I was recently the girl in a situation just like this. This guy has become an amazing friend to me but I could never see him as anything more. To me he was like a brother. Then he recently revealed his feelings for me. I respect him for being honest and taking the risk in telling me, but when I told him how I felt it really broke his heart. I would've been happy to pick things up where we left off like nothing was different, but he said it was too hard to be my friend anymore. I was mad at him for hurting me but at the same time I felt bad for unintentionally hurting him as well. I guess he liked me as more than a friend for a while but preferred to hold on to the slight hope that maybe one day I'd finally fall for him than accept the truth that we'll never be more than friends.
> 
> I'm not saying this will be the outcome in your situation. For all we know she could very well have reciprocated feelings. Even though my friendship ended tragically, I think those things needed to be said. I didn't want him to feel lead on any more and now I've come to realize it's appropriate for me to be best friends with a guy who sees me as something more when I'm in a relationship.


Since this is such a common occurrence, especially for shy guys, I was wondering if you could answer a couple questions to help us out.

1. What about this guy made you think of him more as a brother than a potential partner? In other words, if he was so "amazing," what was missing? Specifics appreciated, including blunt honesty if necessary.

2. Was there anything the guy could have done differently in his earlier interactions with you to change your romantic/sexual perception of him for the better? Or do you feel that something was just inherently incompatible about you two? (IOW, was his failure to win your attraction a result of choices he made or not?)

As for your last sentence (I assume it was a typo), I think you're onto something. There is, in my opinion, an inherent discrepancy between the ability of women vs. men to have close platonic opposite-sex friends. We're *usually* after more if we start spending a lot of time with you, whereas it seems quite common for girls to spend a lot of time -- in some cases, even more than they would with a date/partner! -- with their "gal pal guy friend." Thus, messy situations like the ones we're discussion.


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## Judith (Sep 27, 2008)

anomalous said:


> Since this is such a common occurrence, especially for shy guys, I was wondering if you could answer a couple questions to help us out.
> 
> 1. What about this guy made you think of him more as a brother than a potential partner? In other words, if he was so "amazing," what was missing? Specifics appreciated, including blunt honesty if necessary.
> 
> ...


Well from the moment I met my friend, I was already seeing someone else and I had no intentions of dating other people. Even though I wasn't technically in a relationship, I didn't consider myself available and wasn't searching for dates.

We started off as lab partners and it quickly turned into studying together hours every day. We had a lot in common and things were just comfortable between us. I never felt the need to impress him or cared if I looked like crap around him. However, when it comes to dating, I prefer someone who challenges me. I enjoy the excitement of having someone to impress and look good for. My boyfriend is soooo opposite of me personality wise and I absolutely love it. We balance each other and learn from each other. He's inspired me in so many ways and I've made some positive changes in my life as a result. My friend was someone I had fun with, could rant about my problems to, or have a beer with after a tough exam. I hadn't had a true friend for a long time before him and I craved the no-pressure social interactions we had. Eventually he grew to be a big-brother figure to me and I could never ever ever imagine doing anything sexual with him. Wayyyy too weird. Maybe if I had been single when we met we might've dated for a bit, but I don't think it would've lasted. I'm not sure how to explain it, but there's just not any thrill of romance. He's not a bad looking guy nor does he have an unfortunate personality, but his combination of traits just wasn't doing it for me. There wasn't anything specific he could've done different to make me change my mind.

It seems so incredibly strange to think of us never being friends again, but continuing the relationship would be unhealthy. I would love for him to find a girl who makes him beyond happy and then maybe we can chat over coffee one day. However, that might take a while since he's still claims I'm the only girl he can see himself being truly with.

This being said, I don't plan to ever pursue a close platonic friendship with a straight guy again.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

Judith said:


> We had a lot in common and things were just comfortable between us. I never felt the need to impress him or cared if I looked like crap around him. However, when it comes to dating, I prefer someone who challenges me. I enjoy the excitement of having someone to impress and look good for. My boyfriend is soooo opposite of me personality wise and I absolutely love it. We balance each other and learn from each other. He's inspired me in so many ways and I've made some positive changes in my life as a result. My friend was someone I had fun with, could rant about my problems to, or have a beer with after a tough exam. I hadn't had a true friend for a long time before him and I craved the no-pressure social interactions we had. Eventually he grew to be a big-brother figure to me and I could never ever ever imagine doing anything sexual with him. Wayyyy too weird. Maybe if I had been single when we met we might've dated for a bit, but I don't think it would've lasted. I'm not sure how to explain it, but there's just not any thrill of romance. He's not a bad looking guy nor does he have an unfortunate personality, but his combination of traits just wasn't doing it for me. There wasn't anything specific he could've done different to make me change my mind.


Awesome description. 
Reading it makes me wince a bit thinking about times in my teens and early twenties.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Judith said:


> Well from the moment I met my friend, I was already seeing someone else and I had no intentions of dating other people. Even though I wasn't technically in a relationship, I didn't consider myself available and wasn't searching for dates.
> 
> We started off as lab partners and it quickly turned into studying together hours every day. We had a lot in common and things were just comfortable between us. I never felt the need to impress him or cared if I looked like crap around him. However, when it comes to dating, I prefer someone who challenges me. I enjoy the excitement of having someone to impress and look good for. My boyfriend is soooo opposite of me personality wise and I absolutely love it. We balance each other and learn from each other. He's inspired me in so many ways and I've made some positive changes in my life as a result. My friend was someone I had fun with, could rant about my problems to, or have a beer with after a tough exam. I hadn't had a true friend for a long time before him and I craved the no-pressure social interactions we had. Eventually he grew to be a big-brother figure to me and I could never ever ever imagine doing anything sexual with him. Wayyyy too weird. Maybe if I had been single when we met we might've dated for a bit, but I don't think it would've lasted. I'm not sure how to explain it, but there's just not any thrill of romance. He's not a bad looking guy nor does he have an unfortunate personality, but his combination of traits just wasn't doing it for me. There wasn't anything specific he could've done different to make me change my mind.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response and honesty.


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