# Too many women "beautify" themselves with makeup



## pete24 (Oct 13, 2010)

Take a look at this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ic-transformation-sparks-online-backlash.html

This is the exact thing I had been mentioning and getting annoyed about for years.

The way she looks on the left is way below my standards, not my type, I would never be interested in her. However if I saw her on the right I would think shes way above my standards and know I would never have a chance.

This is the same old crap with society today. Take 1 "ugly" girl, slap a pile of makeup on her face, throw in a potential ego, and there you have another 1 of society's "I'm better than everyone else and only want the hottest of guys" type.

It happens online, or even out in real life.

Men cant really change their look's but it seem's a lot of women can do this magic transformation and put their standards right to the top


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

So... You're angry that some women spend the time/money to look better and in return may expect better prospects in partners?, right after you made it very clear that wouldn't be interested at all in the "before" version?



pete24 said:


> Men cant really change their look's but it seem's a lot of women can do this magic transformation and put their standards right to the top


How about hitting the gym, buy some nice clothes and getting a good haircut. I don't think any of that is gender specific.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

hahahaha no.

incidentally, on the left she looks average, if average is way below your standards you're doing it wrong. Especially with the way your personality comes across in this post.


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## ASB20 (Jun 5, 2013)

Lemme, uh, take it from your viewpoint here.

If she does indeed think she's "better than everyone else", but you don't like how she looked before, aren't you therefore lucking out by getting neither?

Sounds like the best of both worlds to me. Either way, people can do whatever they want, I figure. If you're really gigging for a relationship, you'll find out all the little details anyway.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

If she wants to wear a ton of makeup, then it's of no issue to me. I think it's incredibly rude to act like her modifying her appearance is a betrayal of some sort, that's showing how much value you're placing on her looks as opposed to who she is. Especially since the changes are so slight. The most dramatic change is the heavy eye makeup and she had her hair curled, and if anything, all the extremely overdone contouring looks bad, not better. If I dated a guy who wore lifts in his shoes I wouldn't dump him because, while his personality is sparkling and his wits intimidating, he's just 2 inches shorter than I'd like. Oh well! Betrayal. 

This is so "damned if you do, damned if you don't." By what you said, if I don't change my appearance through cosmetics then I will be ignored, but if I do change them, then I'm betraying someone. How about girls dress how they want to dress and look how we want to look, other opinions be damned? Because I like that option more. Too bad if the choice doesn't appease you.


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## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

These are extreme examples though. We know most girls wear make up already and we should expect that they're gonna look worse when they don't. That being said, I'm not very make-up sensitive I think. When a chick wears too much make-up (like the one on the picture you showed) she's unattractive to me. I'm also not really bothered when a girl doesn't wear it and doesn't have perfect skin. Actually, multiple times, I've seen a girl and thought she was really attractive, and later found out that she doesn't wear make-up.


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

If you're too thick to figure out that there's a ... well, thick layer of make up covering a woman's face, then you can only blame yourself.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

It's not like every woman has a professional make-up artist, and hair stylist, who transform them every morning. This is not an average example.


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## Dear turtle (Sep 7, 2011)

Hold on, you are angry that with makeup she is out of your league then you go on to say without it you wouldn't give her a second look? Saying this doesn't really help your argument as it just proves how truly superficial you are and how much you care deeply about looks, therefore you deserve to be "betrayed".

Also, as someone else has mentioned, What women do you know that has access to a professional makeup artist and hairstylist at home? so women on the street with makeup aren't going to look grotesquely different, plus that is a damn picture and you can tell if someone has layered on their makeup irl ...you clearly can't.


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## AmandaMarie87 (Apr 24, 2013)

What's wrong with women wearing makeup? It gives me a boost of self esteem.


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## Parsnip (Sep 5, 2013)

I don't understand, are people angry that the supposed secret of women enhancing their features with make-up in order to appear more aesthetically pleasing to both themselves and those around them because they find themselves feeling betrayed despite the fact such 'dramatic' transformations are normally rather obvious to anyone who has spent time around people who fail to wear such feature enhancing makeup?

Oh. Poor babies. 

As a side note am I the only one who thinks there's no real difference between the two photos other than careful photography (angles are wonderful aren't they?) and a bit of concealer, fake eyelashes and highlighting/shadowing of certain features in order to enhance what was already present and therefore overshadow other, dare I say it less pleasing elements?


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

I don't think OP is extremely superficial he is just taken aback to how different the girl looks in the pictures.

He does a lot of online dating so a lot of pictures tend to be kind of misguided using different angles and a lot of make up and such to get the best view but when you meet them they're not exactly as good looking as they seemed.

I don't think its terrible to feel the way he does, but I admit I don't share the same view point. I try to meet women offline so I don't face this problem. Also my standards in terms of looks must not be that high because the picture on the left isn't ugly at all.

Even if women does this, OP, your thread prove your point on _why_ they do it. If I went out in my night clothes and tried to hit on women it wouldn't go as well as if I dressed nicely and looked more acceptable. That's the best comparison I can think of.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

It's pretty amazing that you're able to tell all that stuff about a complete stranger's personality, ego and dating standards just by looking at a photograph.


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

Do you really think most women put make up on for men? :lol
At the end of the day, putting on make up is no different from brushing your teeth, getting a haircut or shaving. None of them are natural. There are plenty of "socially acceptable" ways to improve your looks. Taking care of your skin is one example.
The photo has been professionally taken to highlight the shinier skin through the use of light. That also looks like a hell of a lot more than most women would put on.

Take one "ugly" girl (aren't you Prince Charming), apply make up and she'll probably have some self-esteem which she wouldn't have had before. I'm sure if everyone stopped putting on make up to suit your standards you'd complain that there were no attractive women anywhere, and I'm sure you'd also be annoyed if women everywhere demanded that you stop shaving so that you meet their standards.

There is so much pressure for girls to look attractive that it's more common for us to wear make up. Nothing wrong with the one's who don't, it's just a personal choice that really shouldn't affect you so much.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

There are a lot of things you can't see in photos on a dating profile. Bad teeth or a small penis for example.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Charmander said:


> Do you really think most women put make up on for men? :lol
> At the end of the day, putting on make up is no different from brushing your teeth, getting a haircut or shaving. None of them are natural. There are plenty of "socially acceptable" ways to improve your looks. Taking care of your skin is one example.
> The photo has been professionally taken to highlight the shinier skin through the use of light. That also looks like a hell of a lot more than most women would put on.
> 
> ...


I don't know, I think women do wear make up to attract the opposite sex, but then again, what do I know.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

komorikun said:


> There are a lot of things you can't see in photos on a dating profile. Bad teeth or a small penis for example.


I thought the size didn't matter?


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

gunner21 said:


> I don't know, I think women do wear make up to attract the opposite sex, but then again, what do I know.


But the sole reason? If we're talking about going out to a bar etc that's different.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Charmander said:


> But the sole reason? If we're talking about going out to a bar etc that's different.


Sole reason? No. Primary reason? I think so.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

I seriously thought the right picture was CGI.


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

gunner21 said:


> Sole reason? No. Primary reason? I think so.


What makes you think that?


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

No it's not the primary reason. We do it because it makes us feel good, because we're instilled with a desire to be beautiful and to groom excessively. It's what makes our self esteem and I feel like hot ***** when my make up is nice. It has nothing to do wirh men, it's to do with feeling good about ourselves, and also self expression (makeup and fashion are how most of us express ourselves). It's sad that our self esteem hinges on makeup, but what can you do. Men seem to think we do a lot of things for them, but really, men don't factor into most things we do to our appearance (unless it's like Charmander said and we're talking bars or clubs). I thinkvit has to do with men thinking attractive women are there for them to look at, and that we want to be looked at objectively. But I might be overreaching with that theory


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Charmander said:


> What makes you think that?


I don't know, I'm just speculating. Everyone does something to attract their potential partners, and I think make-up is one of those things. How else would they get noticed? (Note: I'm not saying only women do it, so please don't turn this into a gender war)


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Barette said:


> No it's not the primary reason. We do it because it makes us feel good, because we're instilled with a desire to be beautiful and to groom excessively. It's what makes our self esteem and I feel like hot ***** when my make up is nice. It has nothing to do wirh men, it's to do with feeling good about ourselves, and also self expression (makeup and fashion are how most of us express ourselves). It's sad that our self esteem hinges on makeup, but what can you do. Men seem to think we do a lot of things for them, but really, men don't factor into most things we do to our appearance (unless it's like Charmander said and we're talking bars or clubs). I thinkvit has to do with men thinking attractive women are there for them to look at, and that we want to be looked at objectively. But I might be overreaching with that theory


I always assumed it was to look good for other people because I don't get a new hair cut to feel confident or dress nicely to feel good about myself. I do it so women can find me attractive. Otherwise I wouldn't care.

I'm terrible I know, but its true


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## Khantko (Apr 27, 2012)

i think women wear makeup for a little boost in confidence not to attract mates, same reason why they like to wear cute clothes 

If anyone is to blame, it's the media with their unrealistic ideals of beauty making every man, woman, and child feel not good enough.


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## Strategist (May 20, 2008)

I don't like makeup. I wish it didn't exist. I also don't like clothes that seem to try to draw attention. 

I would prefer if people would just relax and be ok with each other. Like can we please accept the girl on the left as a valuable human being? Makeup is work. I'm only tempted to put some on when I go places, such as the mall, where I know there will be people who treat makeup as something a responsible person would wear, like if I don't wear it I am a bad person with no respect for society. Maybe it's in my head but I definitely get this vibe from some people.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Khantko said:


> i think women wear makeup for a little boost in confidence not to attract mates, same reason why they like to wear cute clothes
> 
> If anyone is to blame, it's the media with their unrealistic ideals of beauty making every man, woman, and child feel not good enough.


It's not media. It's just human desire to be the best and desire for the best. Ideal beauty traits will always be unreachable because that is what makes them ideal; the rarity. Also, whatever the media is, is a result of human practices, attitudes and line of thinking.


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## Strategist (May 20, 2008)

komorikun said:


> There are a lot of things you can't see in photos on a dating profile. Bad teeth or a small penis for example.


And this is why men should not wear pants. It's rather betraying if a guy is wearing pants and looks normal but then takes them off and has a small penis. How am I supposed to know???


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place." 

Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


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## KelsKels (Oct 4, 2011)

Barette said:


> No it's not the primary reason. We do it because it makes us feel good, because we're instilled with a desire to be beautiful and to groom excessively. It's what makes our self esteem and I feel like hot ***** when my make up is nice. It has nothing to do wirh men, it's to do with feeling good about ourselves, and also self expression (makeup and fashion are how most of us express ourselves). It's sad that our self esteem hinges on makeup, but what can you do. Men seem to think we do a lot of things for them, but really, men don't factor into most things we do to our appearance (unless it's like Charmander said and we're talking bars or clubs). I thinkvit has to do with men thinking attractive women are there for them to look at, and that we want to be looked at objectively. But I might be overreaching with that theory


This xs 5000. I wear makeup whenever Im doing anything that involves leaving the house. I go out with my boyfriend and always wear makeup, so its not like Im trying to attract anyone. I wear it because I feel like it makes me look better and feel better in general. I dont give a single crap about flirting or attracting anyone.. I just want to feel more confident. Its a sad fact that I dont feel nearly as confident in myself if Im void of makeup.

OP, you would find very, very few women that would reach your high standards if no one could wear makeup.


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## mzmz (Feb 26, 2012)

Barette said:


> If she wants to wear a ton of makeup, then it's of no issue to me. I think it's incredibly rude to act like her modifying her appearance is a betrayal of some sort, that's showing how much value you're placing on her looks as opposed to who she is. Especially since the changes are so slight. The most dramatic change is the heavy eye makeup and she had her hair curled, and if anything, all the extremely overdone contouring looks bad, not better. If I dated a guy who wore lifts in his shoes I wouldn't dump him because, while his personality is sparkling and his wits intimidating, he's just 2 inches shorter than I'd like. Oh well! Betrayal.
> 
> This is so "damned if you do, damned if you don't." By what you said, if I don't change my appearance through cosmetics then I will be ignored, but if I do change them, then I'm betraying someone. How about girls dress how they want to dress and look how we want to look, other opinions be damned? Because I like that option more. Too bad if the choice doesn't appease you.


^well said



au Lait said:


> It's pretty amazing that you're able to tell all that stuff about a complete stranger's personality, ego and dating standards just by looking at a photograph.





Barette said:


> No it's not the primary reason. We do it because it makes us feel good, because we're instilled with a desire to be beautiful and to groom excessively. It's what makes our self esteem and I feel like hot ***** when my make up is nice. It has nothing to do wirh men, it's to do with feeling good about ourselves, and also self expression (makeup and fashion are how most of us express ourselves). It's sad that our self esteem hinges on makeup, but what can you do. Men seem to think we do a lot of things for them, but really, men don't factor into most things we do to our appearance (unless it's like Charmander said and we're talking bars or clubs). I think it has to do with men thinking attractive women are there for them to look at, and that we want to be looked at objectively. But I might be overreaching with that theory


I think men do often think women are somehow public property IE there to leer at or grab or come onto. 
When I go out EVEN to a bar or a bookstore or a party or club I DO NOT think "ooh this dress is gonna get me ATTN" I thik "im going to such and such a place. what is the appropriate atire for this situation"? 
Also I always take into account how I will look in relation to ALL the other FEMALES there. Look up "pecking theory". I dont ever need to dress or put on make up to get mens attn. I get mens attn no matter what. largy unapproprate attn, but attn. So thinking a women ore a dress or make up for YOU is beyond egotistical. I know you guys see it in films..often written by MEN.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

komorikun said:


> There are a lot of things you can't see in photos on a dating profile. Bad teeth or a small penis for example.


Please give more info about this, Komorikun.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

So, how else would you get a guy's attention, seeing that humans are mostly shallow and go for looks?

I openly admit that if girls cease to exist, I'll be roam around in my underwear and a superhero t shirt all day. Might even try and grow a pornstar moustache.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

She looks better in this vid without makeup. There's this girl at my work who wears makeup 2/5 days a week. The days she doesn't wear it, you can see lots of blemishes and acne on her face. However, I find her more attractive without it. There's something about connecting with a woman in her natural form that feels more humanly. It's less intimidating and easier to have a conversation with a woman face to face when she isn't covered in makeup. Even though she's the same person with it on, it has a strange psychological effect akin to a Native American wearing war paint. Jk. But yeah.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

I can sometimes leave the house without make up. I leave with no make up with my glasses on, which I have been wearing a lot, it hides my eyes. But without the glasses I do put on make up if I'm going somewhere. I think I put on make up cause I want to look good and look like I take care of my appearance I guess. But yeah I do wear make up with out thinking about attracting anyone but if I wanna attract someone I do wear make up also. The only think I wear is eyeliner.

I even put on make up when I met a girl and I wasn't trying to attract her.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

Yea, it reminds me of an old "b**** please" meme pic I saw that said, "Fake hair, fake nails, fake tits, and make-up yet they want a REAL man."


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

The op reeks of bitterness towards the opposite sex, I'm surprised people are taking it so seriously.



pete24 said:


> Men cant really change their look's but it seem's a lot of women can do this magic transformation and put their standards right to the top


Bull****.

Teeth, hair, health, general grooming and style all contribute to how attractive you look. All of these things we can change/control and turn an "unattractive" guy into someone much more desirable.

If you're not getting the desired looks from females, you're either not trying hard enough or you have your standards set way too high.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Jesuszilla said:


> I always assumed it was to look good for other people because I don't get a new hair cut to feel confident or dress nicely to feel good about myself. I do it so women can find me attractive. Otherwise I wouldn't care.
> 
> I'm terrible I know, but its true


Nope, not for other people. Sometimes if I'm home alone I put on makeup. I just love the entire process. I love buying new makeup, looking at makeup videos, and putting it on. I just love it. Not for anyone else, I love it for myself.



au Lait said:


> *Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> *
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


I very much agree, especially the bolded.



mzmz said:


> I think men do often think women are somehow public property IE there to leer at or grab or come onto.
> When I go out EVEN to a bar or a bookstore or a party or club I DO NOT think "ooh this dress is gonna get me ATTN" I thik "im going to such and such a place. what is the appropriate atire for this situation"?
> Also I always take into account how I will look in relation to ALL the other FEMALES there. Look up "pecking theory". I dont ever need to dress or put on make up to get mens attn. I get mens attn no matter what. largy unapproprate attn, but attn. So thinking a women ore a dress or make up for YOU is beyond egotistical. I know you guys see it in films..often written by MEN.


I agree with this as well, very much so.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Barette said:


> Nope, not for other people. Sometimes if I'm home alone I put on makeup. I just love the entire process. I love buying new makeup, looking at makeup videos, and putting it on. I just love it. Not for anyone else, I love it for myself.


A real eye opener because I think shopping is the worst and I really hate putting effort into my appearance. I would only do basic grooming like showering otherwise I really wouldn't care if women didn't exist.


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## SilverWolf (Jul 1, 2013)

I don't have a problem with make up. It's no different than a guy wearing nice clothes, hitting the gym, and getting my hair cut/styled. 

Yes, it's some times for attention from men/women. But some times, a person just wants to look better than average.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Jesuszilla said:


> A real eye opener because I think shopping is the worst and I really hate putting effort into my appearance. I would only do basic grooming like showering otherwise I really wouldn't care if women didn't exist.


Well that's you. And some women are like you. Some are like me. Some have opinions that are somewhere between ours.


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

au Lait said:


> Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> 
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


Yeah, I kinda thought that too. :| As someone who was bullied a lot for her looks in the past (and who never once expressed confidence over them), this hits home. Male or female, people who are perceived as unattractive are shamed if they're the slightest bit happy with themselves.


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## Khantko (Apr 27, 2012)

gunner21 said:


> It's not media. It's just human desire to be the best and desire for the best. Ideal beauty traits will always be unreachable because that is what makes them ideal; the rarity. Also, whatever the media is, is a result of human practices, attitudes and line of thinking.


but it is television and magazines that show girls under perfect makeup, perfect lighting, and computer generated enhancements. You couldn't do that in the past


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## mzmz (Feb 26, 2012)

*This is SUCH a good point*



Barette said:


> Well that's you. And some women are like you. Some are like me. Some have opinions that are somewhere between ours.


just yes yes yes^:clap


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## Valtron (Jul 6, 2013)

You know what I find far more distracting and fake? Threaded/shaped eyebrows. Unless you have bushman eyebrows, just leave them alone.

Can't stand this crap!!!


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## pati (Aug 15, 2012)

Valtron said:


> You know what I find far more distracting and fake? Threaded/shaped eyebrows. Unless you have bushman eyebrows, just leave them alone.
> 
> Can't stand this crap!!!


Hmmmmm. Perfectly shaped eyebrows are my favorite. I love every single one of those. Serious.


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## pati (Aug 15, 2012)

au Lait said:


> Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> 
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


Yep. Exactly.


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## Valtron (Jul 6, 2013)

missamanda said:


> Hmmmmm. Perfectly shaped eyebrows are my favorite. I love every single one of those. Serious.


Interesting.

Too me, it just looks out of place. It's too perfect .....fake....


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## pati (Aug 15, 2012)

Valtron said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Too me, it just looks out of place. It's too perfect .....fake....


Why is it fake to emphasize the natural shape of your brow?


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## Grog (Sep 13, 2013)

Less is usually more 
I like it when I'm not sure if you have any on but know you do as it compliments you and doesn't hide you


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Those eyebrows look like they were shaved off completely and painted on. The 3rd one has a nice shape though.


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## Valtron (Jul 6, 2013)

missamanda said:


> Why is it fake to emphasize the natural shape of your brow?


Because eyebrows aren't suppose to be that shape; they're too round. I think it overemphasizes them in an unflattering way.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

au Lait said:


> Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> 
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


Yeah, and the OP is always complaining about how women who are not even all that attractive won't reply to his messages on dating sites. Somehow this is extremely offensive.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

Valtron said:


> You know what I find far more distracting and fake? Threaded/shaped eyebrows. Unless you have bushman eyebrows, just leave them alone.
> 
> Can't stand this crap!!!


meh, maybe its just me but i like it cause its very feminine and i guess im kinda attracted to girly girls


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

I don't think it's just the make up that altered her looks so much. I think they used a different setting on the camera (shutter speed etc), took it at a longer distance (which is always more flattering because it causes less face distortion), and a different angle which made her face slimmer. Also more flattering lighting. It looks like it may have been retouched afterwards too but I can't tell for sure.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I don't find her attractive in either the before or the after pic.


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## Choa (Feb 5, 2013)

heard that the women who wear makeup have more oestrogen 
more oestrogen means more feminine and emotional lol 

anyway i wear makeup and i don't care what others think about me


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

au Lait said:


> Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> 
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


Couldn't have said it better. The OP sounds very bitter.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I can understand the frustration, but as a guy I appreciate it when women make themselves look more attractive. It's probably not because of me, or because of guys, but it generally makes them more confident (and I like confident women.)


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## catcharay (Sep 15, 2011)

Well Pete24, you covet that hot girl, and that hot girl covets that hot guy. It seems that you're amiss in the equation. If you want to play, play in your league - or are they not good enough for you? 

That hot girl is ego-centric and superficial, but so are you. You're a victim of your own parochial standards and measure of value


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## Dear turtle (Sep 7, 2011)

au Lait said:


> Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> 
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


you hit the nail right on the head...


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

While I do agree that excessive make up like shown in that comparison, is blatantly lying, it seems you have a problem with it for reasons other than the lying. It appears to me that you are frustrated that girls can apply a tonne of make up to "raise their league" so to speak, and that guys cannot do the same.

Honestly who cares, if a girl wears make up to make herself feel better then let her. She isn't forcing you to hit on her.


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## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

Women get an awful lot of **** for their appearance, no matter what. Wearing make-up is a nice way to feel like you're regaining some control over something that's been used against you. For me it's really that simple. I'm not going to apologise for how much or little make-up I wear.


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## BadGirl (Jan 6, 2013)

lisbeth said:


> Women get an awful lot of **** for their appearance, no matter what. Wearing make-up is a nice way to feel like you're regaining some control over something that's been used against you. For me it's really that simple. I'm not going to apologise for how much or little make-up I wear.


* Applause *


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

lisbeth said:


> *Women get an awful lot of **** for their appearance, no matter what.* Wearing make-up is a nice way to feel like you're regaining some control over something that's been used against you. For me it's really that simple. I'm not going to apologise for how much or little make-up I wear.


I don't even notice this in society as an adult. There are quite a few women at my work who don't wear makeup, (like legit don't wear it), and none of them get "****" for their appearance. They're treated with the same respect as everyone else.


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## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

ManOfFewWords said:


> I don't even notice this in society as an adult. There are quite a few women at my work who don't wear makeup, (like legit don't wear it), and none of them get "****" for their appearance. They're treated with the same respect as everyone else.


I'm not saying women get **** for their appearance based on whether or not they wear makeup. I'm saying that _in general_ women get **** for their appearance. Whether it's positively or negatively, an awful lot of people in life seem to think that your face or body is their business to comment on. It can get very wearing and invasive. Plus of course there's all the usual societal pressure regarding appearance through the media etc.

Changing your appearance in any way, whether it's dying your hair or going to the gym or wearing makeup, gives you the opportunity to actively choose what you're going to look like to an extent. It's like you're taking back ownership of something that can sometimes feel like public domain.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

^ tbh everyone gets **** on for their appearance. (Including men). Meh, it's a shallow world.


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## Minkiro (Nov 22, 2012)

DeeperUnderstanding said:


> I can understand the frustration, but as a guy I appreciate it when women make themselves look more attractive. It's probably not because of me, or because of guys, but it generally makes them more confident (and I like confident women.)


If they need make up to feel confident, they're doing it wrong.


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## AmandaMarie87 (Apr 24, 2013)

gunner21 said:


> Sole reason? No. Primary reason? I think so.


Wearing makeup to attract men is not my primary reason for wearing makeup. It's more a subconscious thing in the back of my head. The main reason in my case is because I like the way I look with makeup on more than without makeup.


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## AmandaMarie87 (Apr 24, 2013)

probably offline said:


> Please give more info about this, Komorikun.


Yes, please elaborate Komorikun.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I don't wear makeup 99.9% of the time ever. I still remember the time my uncle said I looked about 12 when I was 18 (insane comment, I looked at least 14 I sometimes got 16 from people) and my aunt was like 'well I bet she looks older when she wears makeup' Nope, don't wear makeup *****es. Why should I for other peoples benefit? I'll wear it for myself, everyone else can **** themselves. Plain and simple really.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

This would only be relevant if all you saw in women is their physical attractiveness and nothing else - just saying OP :um


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

So? Lucky for us women that we are expected and feel pressure to constantly look like a photoshop image, day and night, otherwise we're "below your standards"?



ManOfFewWords said:


> I don't even notice this in society as an adult. There are quite a few women at my work who don't wear makeup, (like legit don't wear it), and none of them get "****" for their appearance. They're treated with the same respect as everyone else.


Most men don't even know when women are wearing make up, especially if she's wearing it right. The average woman doesn't put the amount of make-up shown in the image because the idea is that it should "look natural."

Also, women are sometimes fired for not wearing make-up, and wearing it also makes us seem more competent, apparently. So please excuse me if I find the whole "same respect as everyone" a load of privileged bull.

Edit: Also, to gunner who said women wear make up primarily for men; no. There is a general pressure women feel to wear it simply to look normal. Lesbians wear make up, ya know, so it's not all about men, hard as it may be for you to believe.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

I hear some men say "I like when women wear no make up or less make up" to their g/f but like she was probably wearing make up when you first was attracted to her so you can't really say I like the no make up thing on girls.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

meganmila said:


> I hear some men say "I like when women wear no make up or less make up" to their g/f but like she was probably wearing make up when you first was attracted to her so you can't really say I like the no make up thing on girls.


How do you know that? Were you there when the men on this site first met these girls?


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

AllToAll said:


> So? Lucky for us women that we are expected and feel pressure to constantly look like a photoshop image, day and night, otherwise we're "below your standards"?
> 
> Most men don't even know when women are wearing make up, especially if she's wearing it right. The average woman doesn't put the amount of make-up shown in the image because the idea is that it should "look natural."
> 
> ...


Let me clarify my point. I meant that people do things to attract potential partners. Women do some things to attract men or women (depending on their preference). Men do some things to attract men or women. I count make-up as one of these things. (similar to putting on good clothes, working out, dieting etc.)


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

lisbeth said:


> Women get an awful lot of **** for their appearance, no matter what. Wearing make-up is a nice way to feel like you're regaining some control over something that's been used against you. For me it's really that simple. I'm not going to apologise for how much or little make-up I wear.


Well said.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

komorikun said:


> There are a lot of things you can't see in photos on a dating profile. Bad teeth or a small penis for example.





probably offline said:


> Please give more info about this, Komorikun.


Komorikun likes to rub against guys in the club and get them excited so she can check their dick size and determine their worth as a prospective sex partner.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

arnie said:


> Komorikun likes to rub against guys in the club and get them excited so she can check their dick size and determine their worth as a prospective sex partner.


That's actually pretty clever. :teeth komo-intuition ftw !


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## mzmz (Feb 26, 2012)

AllToAll said:


> So? Lucky for us women that we are expected and feel pressure to constantly look like a photoshop image, day and night, otherwise we're "below your standards"?
> 
> Most men don't even know when women are wearing make up, especially if she's wearing it right. The average woman doesn't put the amount of make-up shown in the image because the idea is that it should "look natural."
> 
> ...


I also read a study that women who wear make up garner much more trust then those that dont including from employers. Also, name brands from all sexes, but i digress from the topic.


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

You can't blame individual women or men for unnecessary grooming that can be deceptive. The cosmetic industry has capitalized on traditional notions of beauty, hyper-sexualized them, removed them from reality, and then brainwashed us with them through advertisements. Once popular culture picks it up, it becomes implicitly approved, and a vicious cycle.

I do admire those who will stand up to the stigma going against hyper-sexualized, and sometimes pre-pubescent looking unnecessary grooming.

http://wangclub.tumblr.com/
Women Against Unnecessary Grooming

Again, men aren't shielded from this cosmetic industry barrage. Body hair on men, perfectly natural and hygienic, has become more and more taboo over the last few decades and increased speed in the last few years.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

arnie said:


> Komorikun likes to rub against guys in the club and get them excited so she can check their dick size and determine their worth as a prospective sex partner.


No. I kiss them to get them excited. Anyways, can't really do that on a dating profile or even on an online date.


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## VakarineMy (Oct 1, 2013)

galacticsenator said:


> I seriously thought the right picture was CGI.


I'm having a hard time believing that it's not photoshoped in some kind of way.


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## pete24 (Oct 13, 2010)

I guess some have got it wrong in my view (as some have got it right).

To explain what I meant...

For a lot of women, looking "hot" instantly means a doorway to success when it comes to dating. Men tend to stare at "hot" women in the street, open doors for them, flirt and it's a sad but true fact that online or offline that "hot" women will want to be snapped up by a lot of guys.

With the wonder's of makeup, nearly any girl can go from average/below average to a "hot" girl that a lot of men will desire.

With men though, guy's are either born in the top of the range "hot" category or not... They cant change their looks. 

As a scenario. A below average guy joins a dating site... I can only say good luck, because online, looks are the first thing that is noticed. He cant change his looks. Whilst an average looking woman can pile of the makeup, and will probably be flooded with messages. Saying that, online women usually get flooded with messages anyway.

Walking down the street I can use a similar example. Below average girl + makeup = loads of looks/attention. Below average guy = sod all they can do about it, no looks or attention unless they perhaps approach and show off their personality.

That was my main point. How can guys change their looks? teeth whitening? fresh clothes? thats about it. 

There are other factor's in between, like an average guy could get a hotter girl with personality. Women can always have the makeup card up their sleeve, weather it's used or not.

And that's what I don't like. A lot have natural beauty that suits them, but it's the women that use makeup to artificially turn into someone they are not and then have the attitude of "i'm hot and I only want hot guys", that annoys me, especially when they are average or below average without makeup.


It's not that "ugly" women should know their place. Not at all. As above. Guys are branded and theres sod all they can do about it, as I mention, in general a guy is hot/average/below average/ugly etc so they will have to go for women that perhaps suits them in looks (I.e a below average guy isnt exactly going to get the next hot model is he?). Whilst a lot of women who are of that level, can just put on makeup and go up from average to way above average


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Why are guys complaining that there are more beautiful girls in the world? Seriously?


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

pete24 said:


> That was my main point. How can guys change their looks? teeth whitening? fresh clothes? thats about it.


Changing your hairstyle, dying your hair, exercise, grooming, surgery. There are also make up ranges for men, that make minor enhancements to the face that wouldn't be negatively noticeable if applied correctly. The thing that puts most men off from doing that is because it seems feminine, but that option is still available to you.



pete24 said:


> And that's what I don't like. A lot have natural beauty that suits them, but it's the women that use makeup to artificially turn into someone they are not and then have the attitude of "i'm hot and I only want hot guys", that annoys me, especially when they are average or below average without makeup.
> 
> It's not that "ugly" women should know their place. Not at all. As above. Guys are branded and theres sod all they can do about it, as I mention, in general a guy is hot/average/below average/ugly etc so they will have to go for women that perhaps suits them in looks (I.e a below average guy isnt exactly going to get the next hot model is he?). Whilst a lot of women who are of that level, can just put on makeup and go up from average to way above average


Sorry but that doesn't seem to change your point in any way whatsoever. You're still making it sound as if ugly people (in your eyes) should be shamed for wanting to be with someone you perceive to be better looking than them. Is it your place to decide who should date who?


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

AllToAll said:


> So? Lucky for us women that we are expected and feel pressure to constantly look like a photoshop image, day and night, otherwise we're "below your standards"?
> 
> Most men don't even know when women are wearing make up, especially if she's wearing it right. The average woman doesn't put the amount of make-up shown in the image because the idea is that it should "look natural."
> 
> ...


I agree a lot of men are clueless about this, but I can tell when girls are wearing that "natural" look versus when they have absolutely nothing on. The thing is, women rarely go out without at least some form of it on, so men don't become accustomed to seeing them without it. Unless they have sisters, girlfriends, wives, or hang out with women that don't wear it. I have a couple friends that don't wear it more than they wear it. When I went swimming with these girls at a party last year, the water washed off whatever makeup they had on, and I didn't find the one I was making out with any less attractive, nor the others. One of my coworkers doesn't use it, because she has makeup allergies. Another coworker of mine chooses sleep and getting errands done over spending any time at all putting it on. One morning when I visited my girlfriend at her house, she didn't have any on, and she looked more gorgeous than she did with it on.

The beauty industry has created an unnatural norm for society, and anything that deviates from that norm is too different for most people's brains to accept. Our brains have trouble adjusting to new rules while suppressing the old ones. So when you see a woman on the one day out of the whole year in which she isn't wearing makeup, it's not so much "woh, you look ugly". It's more "woh, my brain can't process this drastic change, therefore, I don't like it.".

If all makeup suddenly vanished from society, after awhile, society would learn to accept it, and become just as attracted to women as they were before it disappeared. But that won't happen in this lifetime because of capitalism, insecurity, fear of bullying/being fired/not getting ahead, parental reinforcement of female children's makeup use, etc. Society is brainwashed into believing women need makeup.

The previous paragraph makes it seem like I'm contradicting what I said earlier about society not giving women **** for their appearance. I was simply describing, earlier, what I've noticed going on in my world right now. In the last six months, I haven't observed women (or men) getting any **** thrown at them for their appearance. None at all. Maybe I'm just seeing things from my own tiny bubble, but everything in my microcosm seems much more progressive than it use to be.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

Charmander said:


> *Changing your hairstyle, dying your hair, exercise, grooming, surgery.* There are also make up ranges for men, that make minor enhancements to the face that wouldn't be negatively noticeable if applied correctly. The thing that puts most men off from doing that is because it seems feminine, but that option is still available to you.


All of the bolded are options that are equal to both men and women. Sure, men can wear makeup to enhance how they look, but how accepted, well marketed, easily accessible, and socially ingrained is makeup for men to make it as viable an option as it is for women? Maybe there is a new market for this I need to jump on business wise, so I can become super rich?!


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

It's weird that men complain about makeup when it is fun and relatively easy to do. I'd do it even if there were no men. 

I like it much more more than dealing with long hair. The crap just gets in my eyes and using a hair iron is super boring. If I were a d*ke, I'd definitely cut the hair short. Women's clothing is also uncomfortable, especially heels and the tight pants. Dieting or exercise is probably the worst. That basically takes up and ruins your whole day. Have to eat untasty food in order to get laid. 

Why don't men complain about long hair, dieting/exercise, heels, or tight clothing?


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

*Well yeah*

I'd probably get Arnie Schwarzenegger, Jean-Claude Van Damme & Frank Bruno
Installed under my skin - face & all the muscles
cos it's free


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I complain about dieting and exercise, because I hate that $*%*.

If it was something artistic, I'd enjoy it. And getting a haircut is even more artistic than sweating and panting at a gym. Sure, it'll lead to a long life, but what if I simply don't have the time? I do an IT job, and sit at a computer all day, and I simply don't have time to lift weights.

The only consolation that I have is that I will be, hopefully, making a lot of money someday. Money to men is like makeup to women; it suddenly makes you more attractive. I can't see how you could argue that, when someone like Bill Gates can get a wife like he has, when he's as nerdy as he is *cough cough* it's the money *cough cough*


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Noll said:


> y
> do you also let them check how loose your vagina is? and... you're right about teeth, my teeth are very crooked and i have these weird white dots on my two upper front teeth, i am getting it all fixed (braces and tooth bleaching) but still... of course i won't show it in pictures of me online, makes me feel kinda fake...


No, of course not. No touching of my crotch in public is allowed.



> long hair on girls is just nice (short hair is annoying because you have to style it to not look terrible, and worry about it the whole day, long hair can just... be long), dieting/exercise i've never understood (and both genders do it, men generally for muscles, women generally to keep a thin figure), maybe cause i have very fast metabolism and am comfortable with being skinny, heels i've never cared much for, tight clothes (jeans) i wear myself (lots of guys my age do too), and i find them comfortable e_e. but, i'm just a boy. i think makeup is the easiest way to look more attractive (as a girl) and to hide bad skin, and that's why bitter people (silly masculinist Redditors) get upset. the primary reason at the core most girls wear makeup is, of course not, to feel better, but because they're expected to, they've been taught from start. it's not like women in particular have a from the beginning natural instinct, or need, to wear makeup to feel better.


You can't just leave the long hair down, unless you have straight hair that is in good condition. If it's wavy or curly you have to do stuff with it. I have to use a ponytail 99% of the time because I'm too lazy to deal with the hair iron. If I were to just leave it down it is a mess.

You are extremely lucky you have never had to deal with dieting.

I suppose tight clothing is more comfortable on skinny people. It's very uncomfortable if you have flab.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Noll said:


> super-tight jeans on average-to-fat-weight people have a tendency to look bad anyways, wavy or curly hair is lovely, ponytails (on girls) are nice too, but i suppose if you don't like it, it can be just as annoying. but trust me, having medium short-ish, straight and fine hair (and being obsessed with it looking just right) is NOT fun either, in school on breaks i always have to go to the bathroom just to check... wind, wind is my biggest enemy. maybe i'm delusional and silly though. i think people should stop comparing genders for once, everyone has a hard and annoying time trying to be attractive, women even more so by society, but there's a fair share on both sides of course.
> 
> if i was a girl things would be much easier for me, i have a very non-masculine chin and jawline (similar to what that Rich91-guy has complained about), i have straight, fine hair and i'm super-skinny no matter what... dammit.


The thing is women's pants/shorts are almost always tight compared to men's. You don't really have a choice unless you are okay with people staring at you. The only way you can get away with something loose is by wearing a dress which is not really feasible in winter.

Who knows, if you had been born a woman you might be chubby with a masculine jawline. What do the women look like in your family?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

will22 said:


> You can't blame individual women or men for unnecessary grooming that can be deceptive. The cosmetic industry has capitalized on traditional notions of beauty, hyper-sexualized them, removed them from reality, and then brainwashed us with them through advertisements. Once popular culture picks it up, it becomes implicitly approved, and a vicious cycle.
> 
> I do admire those who will stand up to the stigma going against hyper-sexualized, and sometimes pre-pubescent looking unnecessary grooming.
> 
> ...


It will only get worse for men to be honest, as time has gone on the amount of beauty and cosmetic products marketed at men has gone up. They've realised that with society changing slightly, and gender stereotypes loosening a little, they can slowly but surely target this stuff at men and make money from it (which was always the end goal.) It's begun with the 'Buy our product, look good, and save time. It's quick!' stuff and the 'dye your grey hair now, look how stunning your wife has looked as she's aged you need to look good too!' and give it another ten years, and they won't even have to bother with that. Men will just buy into this stuff completely.

I don't like beauty related advertising, can you tell? :lol

disclaimer: I have no issue with people wearing makeup and stuff if they want, I mean I dye my hair all the time. I just think it should be about self expression and not covering up elements of yourself that society and advertising keeps telling you are flaws. Like your natural skin  when you go out without makeup and feel naked and terrible, I see that as a problem personally.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

ManOfFewWords said:


> All of the bolded are options that are equal to both men and women. Sure, men can wear makeup to enhance how they look, but how accepted, well marketed, easily accessible, and socially ingrained is makeup for men to make it as viable an option as it is for women? Maybe there is a new market for this I need to jump on business wise, so I can become super rich?!


People already are, better hurry. As I said in my last post it won't be long now before it's very common.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

Before you berate women for "beautifying" themselves, you have to realize that beneath the surface appearance, most of them are plain and uninteresting.


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## cybernaut (Jul 30, 2010)

Put it this way. Everything comes off once you hit the bed with your man: makeup, extensions/weave/wig, jewelry, push up bra, or whatever ways a woman chooses to accesorize and enhance herself. I do agree that there are many women out there who wear make-up and look like a totally different person without it. Regardless, if it makes a person feel better about themselves..then who are we to judge?


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

Putin said:


> Before you berate women for "beautifying" themselves, you have to realize that beneath the surface appearance, most of them are plain and uninteresting.


Post count to complaining about women in some way ratio, rather high.


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## Secretly Pretentious (Dec 18, 2011)

Damn! I should be taking make-up lessons from her! 

Anyway, I think most men prefer the look of a well made-up face over one that is natural. Why else would models and celebrities be made-up rather than bare? Because that's the look that sells. However, many men seem to buy into the delusion that women look like that naturally. And when these men see their girlfriends/wives remove the make-up, it destroys the fantasy. Apparently, women should look like a made-up model without having to wear makeup. As Charmander smartly pointed out, women can start walking around bare-faced to appease the OP's perspective. But then men would start complaining about how few attractive women there are in comparison to before.

((Not saying ALL men prefer make-up. Just observing that most do.))



au Lait said:


> Honestly, I don't think the opinion expressed in the OP is about makeup at all. I think it's about the concept that "ugly" women should "know their place."
> 
> Some people truly believe that women (or people in general) whom they perceive as unattractive aren't worthy of love, that they shouldn't feel good about themselves, beautify themselves in any way, or be confident. Some feel that way to the point where they actually become angry and bitter at the very idea that such a woman might even be happy.


After reading your post, I suspect that this is the primary motivation for this thread as well. Good insight.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

Not sure if posted already, but saw this and reminded me of this thread LOL: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...vers-plain-women-transformed-cover-girls.html


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

I might get **** for this too, since this is a very woman driven board it seems (with a few bitter guys with very loud opinions), but the thing that bugs me about makeup most is a woman who would be interested in me under natural looks, would suddenly - with the power of makeup, specifically the kind of makeup applying that we're seeing here - feel I'm not worthy to her because she's finding more attractive guys are now interested in her

so yeah, it's a bit of a personal fear/insecurity. Maybe that's how OP felt too he just didn't convey it as well.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

Pretty much all attractive women wear makeup to emphasize their looks.

If you can't tell 
when a woman is wearing a crapload of makeup 
then maybe you should educate yourself on makeup more so you can learn
to recognize thick makeup, false eyelashes, eyeliner, lipstick, blush, hair grooming,
Etc. vs. a more natural makeup look. 

Most people on TV and in photos celebrities wear caked on makeup due to the nature 
of being on camera , if they didnt wear makeup do you realize how these
people would look? Tired, old, wrinkly, etc.

Your anger seems weird and misplaced. .

We live in a superficial world so many people will spend a lot of 
time and money on their looks.. This is nothing new.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

^ I find it weird how often guys don't seem to ''see'' makeup on women. They'll point out some woman as being a natural beauty, and I'll look and she's completely wearing concealer, eyeliner, mascara, lip gloss... They only seem to notice makeup when it's practically at drag queen level.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

wrongnumber said:


> ^ I find it weird how often guys don't seem to ''see'' makeup on women. They'll point out some woman as being a natural beauty, and I'll look and she's completely wearing concealer, eyeliner, mascara, lip gloss... They only seem to notice makeup when it's practically at drag queen level.


Yeah. Sometimes I'd have makeup on and my exes couldn't tell. I also got a message recently from some guy saying something about how little makeup I'm using in the photo.....I was wearing quite a bit.....mascara, eyeliner, eyeshadow, etc.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

wrongnumber said:


> ^ I find it weird how often guys don't seem to ''see'' makeup on women. They'll point out some woman as being a natural beauty, and I'll look and she's completely wearing concealer, eyeliner, mascara, lip gloss... They only seem to notice makeup when it's practically at drag queen level.


^ this is something I wish all guys
would recognize. They don't understand
the work women go through
just look "natural". Ugh!


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

Women have thinner skin than men too,
which is another reason women wear 
makeup , to hide discoloration and unevenness.

Also since women have thinner skin we tend 
to get more wrinkles and look older than men ..

All which results in the "need" to wear makeup


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Tinydancer20 said:


> Women have thinner skin than men too,
> which is another reason women wear
> makeup , to hide discoloration and unevenness.
> 
> ...


That is if the guy doesn't go bald. Going bald ages a guy by 10 years or more.


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## Alienated (Apr 17, 2013)

A little make up I don't think is bad, as long as she still looks natural. But when it's so thick, you can practically peel it off like a Halloween mask. IN REVERSE !!

And you see the scary BEAST under the mask, that can't even look at herself, or go out in public. Because she is so shallow and insecure with herself, she never worked on her personality. Spends hours everyday turning herself into something she isn't...

Let the shallow jack-asses have the hypocrites, I've take a good old farm girl, or one that grew up in a village somewhere from nowhere. As long as she never lived the USA.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Will you guys please stop complaining and appreciate the eye candy?!

Would you rather have every single girl strolling around with their ugliest, neglected faces? If the government gave out money for all chicks to get boob surgery - hypothetical and absurd scenario, forget about taxes and gov debt and all that crap - and all these women had perfect perky tits in the street, would you complain?

Besides, you can tell when a girl is overdoing her makeup. She'll be swimming in a pool of foundation and blush.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

Mr Bacon said:


> Besides, you can tell when a girl is overdoing her makeup. She'll be swimming in a pool of foundation and blush.


There is actually makeup now that looks natural 
enough to where you can't tell


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

I like women.


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

I thought this was going to be a lecture about how women shouldn't wear makeup because they look beautiful the way they are, but this is even worse.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Tinydancer20 said:


> There is actually makeup now that looks natural
> enough to where you can't tell


For the ignorant guy who doesn't know the difference between an eyeliner and mascara, perhaps.

You don't trick Mr Bacon.


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## MovinOnUp (Oct 15, 2013)

Make up or no make up. Inner beauty is all that matters....well it did at some point. Where did society go wrong. Loool


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

euphoria04 said:


> Not sure if posted already, but saw this and reminded me of this thread LOL: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...vers-plain-women-transformed-cover-girls.html


Most of these women are beautiful sans makeup. Ignore the pictures on the right and focus only on the left ones while scrolling down. Imagine seeing these women in grocery store in yoga pants or something. Don't tell me you wouldn't find most of them extremely hot.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

rednosereindeer said:


> I thought this was going to be a lecture about how women shouldn't wear makeup because they look beautiful the way they are, but this is even worse.


I tried.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Hah.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

ManOfFewWords said:


> Most of these women are beautiful sans makeup. Ignore the pictures on the right and focus only on the left ones while scrolling down. Imagine seeing these women in grocery store in yoga pants or something. Don't tell me you wouldn't find most of them extremely hot.


Yes I do find them attractive.

But they could definitely date up with makeup


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

What it would take is a beauty industry idol to make the conscious decision to go makeupless for life, cause a huge stir, be on all the magazine covers, have other famous people follow in her footsteps, and inspire many women to throw away their powders and mascaras. But hah. Never gonna happen in America. Not when there's money to be had.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

ManOfFewWords said:


> What it would take is a beauty industry idol to make the conscious decision to go makeupless for life, cause a huge stir, be on all the magazine covers, have other famous people follow in her footsteps, and inspire many women to throw away their powders and mascaras. But hah. Never gonna happen in America. Not when there's money to be had.


I think it's a two way street cause I admittedly do find many girls more attractive with makeup. But I recognize it's a societal conditioning thing, and I can't ever see that expectation being eradicated in a single generation.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

Even if the expectation, as a society, to wear it was eradicated, women would still be wearing it daily. They're still competing with each other for men, and they're going to use anything to gain an advantage. Unless they're not in the attract-a-man mode. Then they're just wearing it to express themselves. Actually those scenarios aren't always mutually exclusive. For instance, when a woman uses her makeup as an artistic expression whilst attempting to be attractive to men (or women).


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## pete24 (Oct 13, 2010)

There was another story in the paper recently:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...vers-plain-women-transformed-cover-girls.html

I accept a lot of women want to look nicer for us guys, I don't hate makeup, as long as it's minimal.

This other news report is a classic reason why it's not good to use excessive makeup.

There could be a woman who is attracted to someone. Then they start getting into makeup and wearing it to beautify themselves (not just to enhance their best features), then that person they were once attracted to suddenly is below their standards.

Dating sites are a perfect example... 1 thing I learned with online dating, is either 90% of women are single supermodels, or makeup is being abused.

If they had no makeup on, I would walk the other way and never consider them, but because they do have makeup on, myself and many other average/above average guys are no where near good enough in looks for them to message or reply to our messages..... Simply because of the makeup they are wearing.

In general (online or real life), a below average guy who wants a natural beauty that is classed as "very attractive" will have just a 0.000001% chance but women who are below average and use makeup in this excessive way will often expect a guy who is "very attractive"


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

Maybe the guys here who are complaining that women"s make-up use gives them an "unfair advantage" should start using make-up themselves?


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

This is going to be your word against mine. Here goes.



pete24 said:


> There was another story in the paper recently:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...vers-plain-women-transformed-cover-girls.html
> 
> ...


Let me tell you right now that the majority of girls wouldn't go through these kinds of makeup transformations every single morning. These makeups there in your article were made by a professional. Tons of foundation, eye-liner, blush, bits of colors and shade here and there, mascara, good hair styling... in real life, people don't have time for this or are too lazy. It's the kind of make up designed for going on a night out.



> There could be a woman who is attracted to someone. Then they start getting into makeup and wearing it to beautify themselves (not just to enhance their best features), *then that person they were once attracted to suddenly is below their standards*.


If all women step up their game with makeup and become more attractive, then, essentially, there's just as much competition between them. That would be good news for us guys - more hot chicks to choose from, and a smaller pool of uglies. At least on the surface. Meanwhile, the male population is the exact same. Simple economics theory: when there is more of something, it's value decreases. More hot chicks = dimes are more common and aren't that big of a deal anymore: you lose one, you easily find another decent looking one.

Now, for the bolded part - according to you, girls who are attracted to a certain type of guys will suddenly no longer be attracted once they put their makeup on, while they did so precisely in the intent of seducing such guys? Makes no sense. *If all hot girls are battling for the exact same kind of top tier men, there's bound be a lot of single hot girls out there*. Somebody has to lower their standards at some point - or it's guaranteed celibacy.



> Dating sites are a perfect example... 1 thing I learned with online dating, is either 90% of women are single supermodels, or makeup is being abused.
> 
> If they had no makeup on, I would walk the other way and never consider them, but because they do have makeup on, myself and many other average/above average guys are no where near good enough in looks for them to message or reply to our messages..... Simply because of the makeup they are wearing.


Dating sites are a crappy exemple. Obviously girls are going to take multiple shots of their faces until they get the right angle, might photoshop some details, and present themselves under their best light. Plus, you're the one saying 90% of them look like supermodels. I certainly disagree.



> In general (online or real life), a below average guy who wants a natural beauty that is classed as "very attractive" will have just a 0.000001% chance but women who are below average and use makeup in this excessive way will often expect a guy who is "very attractive"


There's bound to be a shortage of "very attractive" men. On the other hand, makeup augments the number of hot chicks, making them more disposable. How do you even define "attractive men"?

According to your theory, if women did find a way through technology to all become 10s in the future... then world population would suddenly decrease because they'd all have a huge self-esteem and wouldn't want the less attractive guys. Celibacy would then become the norm and dating would become the exception. I smell bullcrap.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

The opinions here just show why
women wear makeup. 

If women don't wear it 
they are criticized- called "average" (no woman wants to hear that they are average looking) or even sometimes "ugly"


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## yep (Mar 21, 2011)

I don't wear makeup for guys. And I don't wear it at all, unless I'm going to an event. I wear it (and I'm talking about concealer and not foundation, because foundation doesn't actually do a good job of covering my face), not to make myself look better, but to hide my redness and blushing. I do kind of look like a cake face with it on, but I'd rather look like a cake face than have people stare at my *red* face. I am super jealous of people who have beautiful, redness and blush-free complexions. Some girls don't even need to wear foundation, their skin is already perfect! But it's futile trying to tell someone "You don't need to wear makeup!" They probably don't see what I or everyone else sees.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

TicklemeRingo said:


> Maybe the guys here who are complaining that women"s make-up use gives them an "unfair advantage" should start using make-up themselves?


Agreed. :yes


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

Intredasting observation: in any gender war thread, it seems that guys split off about evenly 50/50, some arguing for the side of the females and the other side of the males. Women however always take the side of the women.

don't know what to make of it but it rings true.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

There is more expensive makeup nowadays that makes your skin look perfect while still looking very natural. Basically it covers up imperfections, dark circles, spots, but still looks like bare skin.

I see no reason why a guy couldn't take advantage of this type of makeup to make themselves look a little more appealing.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

euphoria04 said:


> Intredasting observation: in any gender war thread, it seems that guys split off about evenly 50/50, some arguing for the side of the females and the other side of the males. Women however always take the side of the women.
> 
> don't know what to make of it but it rings true.


Intredasting observation: guys tend to start gender war threads more often - to attack the opposite gender, throwing the first stone.

Why? Cause they can't get laid and start trying to find reasons why, blaming the other gender. Even if it takes pulling absurd arguments out of their *****.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> Intredasting observation: guys tend to start gender war threads more often - to attack the opposite gender, throwing the first stone.
> 
> Why? Cause they can't get laid and start trying to find reasons why, blaming the other gender.


I don't understand what you are implying - that men are biologically a more whiny, blame-driven gender?


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

This guy looks more attractive by changing his clothes, hair, and I think he's wearing a bit of makeup on his face to look younger. So why do men think they can't make themselves look better again?!


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Tinydancer20 said:


> This guy looks more attractive by changing his clothes, hair, and I think he's wearing a bit of makeup on his face to look younger. So why do men think they can't make themselves look better again?!


Because honestly, the physique isn't as important when it comes to guys.

We don't need high heels, pushup bras, makeup, suggestive clothing such as leggings, mini-skirts or plunging necklines to enhance or expose our anatomy.

And if we did use makeup, it would be for tiny adjustments, such as covering the dark circles under the eyes with a bit of concealer, at most. Or perhaps use a tiny bit of eyeliner to enhance the gaze.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

^ then what is with all the moaning in this thread?

Also this thread is ugly.


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## Auroras (Jul 24, 2013)

DeeperUnderstanding said:


> I can understand the frustration, but as a guy I appreciate it when women make themselves look more attractive. It's probably not because of me, or because of guys, but it generally makes them more confident (and I like confident women.)


I have to agree with you here. Make-up is like art to me. I find it fun being a girly-girl and there is nothing wrong with wanting to put your best foot forward when it comes to first impressions. IMO, when you look good you feel good.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

The intellectual level of this forum....... a thread moaning about women using makeup gets 7 pages...... I feel less intelligent just for reading some of these posts.


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## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

pete24 said:


> There could be a woman who is attracted to someone. Then they start getting into makeup and wearing it to beautify themselves (not just to enhance their best features), then that person they were once attracted to suddenly is below their standards.
> (....)
> If they had no makeup on, I would walk the other way and never consider them, but because they do have makeup on, myself and many other average/above average guys are no where near good enough in looks for them to message or reply to our messages..... Simply because of the makeup they are wearing.


That just isn't true. My own appearance has **** all effect on what kind of looks I'm attracted to. Attraction isn't like some kind of competition where the better looking your beau is, the more points you score. All this 'league' talk is silly.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

euphoria04 said:


> I don't understand what you are implying - that men are biologically a more whiny, blame-driven gender?


On this forum, it seems to be true.


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

lisbeth said:


> That just isn't true. My own appearance has **** all effect on what kind of looks I'm attracted to. Attraction isn't like some kind of competition where the better looking your beau is, the more points you score. All this 'league' talk is silly.


Agreed. I hate this sort of league system people discuss (taking out of the equation extremes e.g. obese people weighing 30 stone).


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Donnie in the Dark said:


> The intellectual level of this forum....... a thread moaning about women using makeup gets 7 pages...... I feel less intelligent just for reading some of these posts.


It's most likely just the result of frustration from not getting laid. Understand the poor guys... cobwebs are accumulating in their pants. :lol


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Perfect reaction to this thread and some of the posts.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

komorikun said:


> On this forum, it seems to be true.


Hehehe..


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## pineapplebun (Oct 25, 2011)

komorikun said:


> On this forum, it seems to be true.


I am inclined to agree with this.

It's pretty unattractive seeing people in general (not just guys) trying to blame someone else for issues that most likely stem from themselves, resulting in bitterness and hate. This goes beyond the romantic realm but when people see someone else happy or doing well, and they wish ill on them! (people who have never done anything wrong to them!) And even though I don't peruse the forum that much, I have noticed that there are just too many threads made by guys attacking girls for whatever reason, and it's really painted a negative image of men, compared to the guys I have known in person. It's like no matter what we do, girls are screwed.

OP I think you're being hypocritical. You say you wouldn't give those girls without make-up a second glance, yet you hate it when girls may not find you attractive (under the assumption that they suddenly think they are 'above' your league because of make-up?).

IDK about other girls, but wearing make-up doesn't affect my attraction towards men nor does it make me feel I'm suddenly more attractive, because I'm aware that at the end of the day, make-up is just an enhancer, and isn't what I was naturally given. I also don't believe that looking better makes me worth more in value as a person, and I don't think anyone's value should be based on looks because I don't feel it defines someone. And I also think it's really shallow to think of people in leagues. I don't go looking at a guy and thinking I'm too good for him, EVER. He could be very attractive, but just not my type, and that too would affect my physical attraction towards him.

I don't follow your posts really, and I don't have anything against you but it's possible the girls you're interested in pick up on how shallow you are, and if they really are looking for substance in a relationship, that could be a deal breaker. Just speculation. For me, it would be a turn-off. Of course I like to look good for my boyfriend, but I also prefer to be au naturel, and I'm not much of a looker. I would want to be able to relax with him, not feel pressured to look a certain way - that's too much additional stress in a relationship.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

komorikun said:


> On this forum, it seems to be true.


That's possible. It's also possible guys are more dissatisfied with the way the system works currently (I mean we can acknowledge that 100 years ago, the system heavily favored the guys right?).

Looking at the 30+ forum and all their relationship frustrations is extremely depressing (and the frustrated guys seem to outnumber the girls ~2:1). So can all of this be attributed to the fact that they have issues or bad personalities? Or maybe the bitterness came from a result of years of no success? It's a the chicken or the egg question.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

pineapplebun said:


> I am inclined to agree with this.
> 
> It's pretty unattractive seeing people in general (not just guys) trying to blame someone else for issues that most likely stem from themselves, resulting in bitterness and hate. This goes beyond the romantic realm but when people see someone else happy or doing well, and they wish ill on them! (people who have never done anything wrong to them!) And even though I don't peruse the forum that much, I have noticed that there are just too many threads made by guys attacking girls for whatever reason, and it's really painted a negative image of men, compared to the guys I have known in person. It's like no matter what we do, girls are screwed.
> 
> ...


<3


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

euphoria04 said:


> That's possible. It's also possible guys are more dissatisfied with the way the system works currently (I mean we can acknowledge that 100 years ago, the system heavily favored the guys right?).
> 
> Looking at the 30+ forum and all their relationship frustrations is extremely depressing (and the frustrated guys seem to outnumber the girls ~2:1). So can all of this be attributed to the fact that they have issues or bad personalities? Or maybe the bitterness came from a result of years of no success? It's a the chicken or the egg question.


Yeah, too bad women got all those rights and can choose whether or not they want to date you?

Also, women don't often complain on this site about their dating issues because we're usually attacked with comments stating we don't know how "easy we have it" in comparison to men, so that ratio doesn't actually mean anything.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

AllToAll said:


> Yeah, too bad women got all those rights and can choose whether or not they want to date you?


What makes you think I said that? :|

I'm not a misogynistic ******* and neither was that statement I made you tried to turn on me; so don't read into my comments with your biases about how 'every man wants to keep the woman down'. Please.


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

euphoria04 said:


> What makes you think I said that? :|
> 
> I'm not a misogynistic ******* and neither was that statement I made you tried to turn on me; so don't read into my comments with your biases about how 'every man wants to keep the woman down'. Please.


I wasn't assuming anything, but since, according to you, men have such a hard time with this new "system" whereas before it "favored them," I'm assuming you prefer that old system.

I also don't know how the dating world has changed that much. Men have always made the first move or asked women out. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I don't see how there's much of a difference aside from women being able to decline a date.


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

euphoria04 said:


> Intredasting observation: in any gender war thread, it seems that guys split off about evenly 50/50, some arguing for the side of the females and the other side of the males. Women however always take the side of the women.
> 
> don't know what to make of it but it rings true.


Well this is obviously a sensitive topic for women. It's definitely a sensitive topic for me. I mean you have to admit some of the stuff said in this thread is pretty insulting.

For women wearing makeup is a damned if you do or damned if you don't kinda thing. If you wear makeup you are "deceptive" and "obviously trying to attract a man." If you don't wear it you look average or unattractive.

The same guys who say this though, likely spend a lot of time looking at porn and female celebrities, who are all wearing makeup and who have their pictures photoshopped.

There is no way a regular woman can live up to that. Regular women do not look like models when they wake up in the morning. Models do not even look like models naturally, without tons of makeup and professional hair dressers and such.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/03/porn-stars-without-make-up_n_3379731.html


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

AllToAll said:


> I wasn't assuming anything, but since, according to you, men have such a hard time with this new "system" whereas before it "favored them," I'm assuming you prefer that old system.
> 
> I also don't know how the dating world has changed that much. Men have always made the first move or asked women out. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I don't see how there's much of a difference aside from women being able to decline a date.


Most men don't have such a hard time, it's a relative minority. Women had it a lot worse then, all of them. I was making an observation that the pendulum can swing back and forth to who has it easier (throughout almost all of history it's been men); It won't ever be equal.

I can't imagine any system that would fully satisfy either gender, too many differences between us. But one thing that won't ever change is those who get short shafted will voice their opinions loudest if they're not oppressed.

If you think it's all on them for not being successful, maybe you should go to their thread and tell them that and see how they feel about it.

It's true that they can only change themselves, not society; but that doesn't make society fair or equal.


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

Sindelle said:


> Well this is obviously a sensitive topic for women. It's definitely a sensitive topic for me. I mean you have to admit some of the stuff said in this thread is pretty insulting.
> 
> For women wearing makeup is a damned if you do or damned if you don't kinda thing. If you wear makeup you are "deceptive" and "obviously trying to attract a man." If you don't wear it you look average or unattractive.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying and I feel that OP saying "this woman without makeup isn't attractive enough to be worthy of me" undermined any point he could have made.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

certain people lack empathy
For the opposite sex. Maybe lack of 
Empathy is the exact reason that 
some that desperately want 
dates, are finding themselves dateless


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

Tinydancer20 said:


> certain people lack empathy
> For the opposite sex. Maybe lack of
> Empathy is the exact reason that
> some that desperately want
> dates, are finding themselves dateless


actually lack of ever approaching is why i find myself dateless

but i get it, you don't like me


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

euphoria04 said:


> actually lack of ever approaching is why i find myself dateless
> 
> but i get it, you don't like me


I wasn't talking about you, 
I was just making an observation 
Based on most posts I've seen here

It's just simple - women want to be understood 
and respected , they don't want to be blamed 
by men for their dating failures


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## euphoria04 (May 8, 2012)

Tinydancer20 said:


> I wasn't talking about you,
> I was just making an observation
> Based on most posts I've seen here
> 
> ...


that's understandable but that would only matter if their bitterness was picked up by girls in their cold approaches


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> I wasn't talking about you,
> I was just making an observation
> Based on most posts I've seen here
> 
> ...


I agree. I grew up hearing "all men are s***" and I f***ing hate it. What I really don't like is when people give legit helpful advice and then the person asking for help ignores it or brush it off.


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## mzmz (Feb 26, 2012)

*i want to lick him*



Mr Bacon said:


> Because honestly, the physique isn't as important when it comes to guys.
> 
> We don't need high heels, pushup bras, makeup, suggestive clothing such as leggings, mini-skirts or plunging necklines to enhance or expose our anatomy.
> 
> And if we did use makeup, it would be for tiny adjustments, such as covering the dark circles under the eyes with a bit of concealer, at most. Or perhaps use a tiny bit of eyeliner to enhance the gaze.





Tinydancer20 said:


> This guy looks more attractive by changing his clothes, hair, and I think he's wearing a bit of makeup on his face to look younger. So why do men think they can't make themselves look better again?!


is that wrong?

I actually think hes more attractive in the 1st photo but I would date him however he arrives...im not superfical and hes attractive. can you give the exact link? I went to the site but dont know what part has the photo. guess:b its not a dating site *Cries


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## jessabones (Jun 25, 2013)

I love make up.
Personally I don't wear it to attract people. I wear it because I like the colors I put together and how they look on me. I don't HAVE to leave the house with it on but it's fun. Make up is supposed to look natural anyways, to enhance features. Don't cake it on. You're supposed to wear make up that looks like you AREN'T wearing make up.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

Newflash: women use make-up to improve their looks.

How girls fool you with make-up

Sorry to tell you boys but women are just people. This isn't some conspiracy theory. We weren't born looking like supermodels (not even supermodels were.) Those really hot chicks you see walking around usually put in _a lot_ of time, effort and money to look that way. If you've never wore a lot of make-up, you have no idea how much can go into it.


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