# How did anybody get a girlfriend/boyfriend?



## pokerisfun

I'm way too anxious in general to even think about having a girlfriend. I usually just try to get through everyday and then get home as fast as possible, to my "safe place" (my room). I dont even try to make friends, or talk to girls, when im at school or work (im just too anxious and can barely think striaght most of the time). I mean, I have a hard time talking on the phone or buying something from a store. So going out with a girl is probably out of the question right now in my life. 

I know I can attract girls, because I have been asked out before. I also can be funny and nice to be around, but it all depends on how bad my anxiety is. My anxiety is just not low enough of the time, to be able to be myself. 

Basically my question is how did anybody get a girlfriend or boyfriend while having social anxiety? 

Also as a side note, I dont know anyone in real life that is as nervous around girls as I am. I mean I work at a large store and I avoid going to the front because I know all of the cashiers will be there. (plus alot people lol). In one of my classes a girl sat beside me and I didn't even look at her. I have no idea what she looked like, because I was too nervous to even turn my head in the direction she was sitting. The list goes on and on, of situations like those.


----------



## cheekypanda

Don't laugh but... I met my current bf a few years ago on WoW. :blush We live together now, so it worked out for the both of us.


----------



## silent but not deadly

I know what you mean i`m the same, i don`t hold out much hope and i`m 35.


----------



## faefae44

All my previous bf's and my current boyfriend are extremely outgoing so despite my SA, they broke through my walls.

My friend actually set me and my current bf up on a blind date, and it worked out really well . His extroverted personality balances out my introverted one and vice versa.


----------



## Monroee

I met my "boyfriend", (The quotes are there for good reason, trust me.) in 9th grade when my social anxiety/selective mutism was at its worst. I didn't talk to him at all for months. But for some reason he was persistent and insisted on sitting next to me and doing all the talking. I ask him now why he was so intent on getting to know me and he said he never realized just how anxious I was, he thought it was a type of "mystique".

Mystique. That's funny.


----------



## SusanStorm

I met my boyfriend at a concert.
None of us dared to ask for anyones phone number,but I knew his name so I googled him.With a lot of support from a friend a managed to send him a text.I didn't think he'd answer,but the next thing I knew he was coming over at my place 
We both have social anxiety so the first couple of months was anxious and stressful as hell.I think I'm one of the few that don't enjoy the whole "in love" period as much just because of this and all the uncertainty that's involved.


----------



## Charizard

Met at a mutual friend's end of school year party (that I had to struggle to get myself to actually GO to), clicked instantly. After that we added each other on msn and IMed back and forth for hours every night for months. 

Rest is history. Been together for 3.5 years.


----------



## THEuTASTEsOFeINKd

I'd say most people with a gf/bf either:

1. met online
2. their partner made the first move (I find in highschool it's 50/50 for what gender makes the first move but I think once you're an adult, men usually make the first move)
3. their partner suffers from social anxiety
4. they got the nerve to make the first move

I don't really see too many other ways... 

Any relationship starts out with people being really nervous but once you push past that phase it becomes pretty nice.


----------



## peach

Mine is a pretty interesting story. I met a man online and we became pretty close. He fell madly in love with me, but I didn't feel the same way, even though I cared for him deeply. At the time, I had been staying with my father temporarily because of some financial problems, and my father absolutely hated him for some reason. One day, my father suddenly told me to leave because he believed that I was hiding things from him (I firmly believe that my father is an undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenic.), and so, without an apartment lined up, he asked a friend of his -- man #2-- if I could stay with him for a little while until my friend and I could get a place together. (He was, and still is, living with his parents.) It seemed like a good enough plan, and I didn't feel very weird moving in with man #2 because I knew he was bisexual and only dated men. But over the next few weeks, I started developing feelings for man #2, never believing for a moment that he would even notice me that way. One weekend, we went to DC for a meetup with some other people who we knew from another online group (it was one of the scariest moments I've had in a while... imagine, being SA meeting a group of about 50 other people who you think are awesome to the point of adoration), and during one of the parties, man #2 got incredibly drunk and kissed me. I honestly thought it was just the booze, and it made me feel bad because I knew that he probably wouldn't even remember in the morning. However, to my shock, he ended up confessing that he had secretly fallen in love with me, and felt absolutely terrible because he felt that he was betraying his friend. Telling man #1 that I loved his friend was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, but I consider it one of the best things that has ever happened to me in my dismally painful, socially anxious, crybaby life.

Funny how life can turn out sometimes. Trust me, if you're lamenting over your loneliness, don't. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. Just don't give up.


----------



## BetaBoy90

cheekypanda said:


> Don't laugh but... I met my current bf a few years ago on WoW. :blush We live together now, so it worked out for the both of us.


I think that's awesome, nothing to be ashamed about. You met through a common interest, better than get matched together just because you friend hooked you up with someone you don't even connect with.


----------



## Stormclouds

I met my guy online.


----------



## Cheesus Chrust

This is almost not an issue whatsoever for girls. It's the guys that have to make the move and be assertive at the start, unfortunately. So if you're a girl with SA, I hate to be taking sides here, but you got no idea what it's like being a guy with SA and doing the whole dating thing. You gals can pretty much just lay back, look pretty, and it'll come your way. And it sounds like you're on the right track and have a pretty bright future if the ladies are already asking YOU out. Usually you gotta make the move.


----------



## Spindrift

Sheer dumb luck on my part.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Cheesus Chrust said:


> This is almost not an issue whatsoever for girls. It's the guys that have to make the move and be assertive at the start, unfortunately. So if you're a girl with SA, I hate to be taking sides here, but you got no idea what it's like being a guy with SA and doing the whole dating thing. You gals can pretty much just lay back, look pretty, and it'll come your way. And it sounds like you're on the right track and have a pretty bright future if the ladies are already asking YOU out. Usually you gotta make the move.


This guy has figured out the dating world. It's pretty much set up for SAD guys to be at the bottom. We are less comfortable approaching women than most men, hence we are often alone.


----------



## pokerisfun

Thanks for all the replies. (I am still so nervous posting anything online, that right after I posted this I wanted to take it down, damn sa lol)

From reading all the replies, it looks like finding a girlfriend/boyfriend happens almost by accident (sometimes in funny ways lol). For me even if the girl made the first move, I am just too nervous to reciprocate. I normally try to avoid that person, to the point where they become disinterested. 

For example when I got my first job, 3 girls asked me out in the first month. After that I was really nervous to go to work (more than normal), and as stupid as it sounds, I tried to avoid all of them as much as possible. Thats why i'm worried my sa around girls is so bad that no matter what, I might not be able to have a girlfriend. 

Anyway its something I gotta work on and actually reading the other posts makes me feel that there's hope, so thanks.


----------



## pokerisfun

> This guy has figured out the dating world. It's pretty much set up for SAD guys to be at the bottom. We are less comfortable approaching women than most men, hence we are often alone.


Its sad, but true. We just gotta work at it much more to get more confident. Then everything will be alright (which is a million times easier said then done lol), but we gotta start sometime.


----------



## daniel1989

Girlfriend? what girlfriend?


----------



## IcemanKilmer

pokerisfun said:


> Its sad, but true. We just gotta work at it much more to get more confident. Then everything will be alright (which is a million times easier said then done lol), but we gotta start sometime.


I'm more concerned with making friends right now. I don't even have one friend.

I don't think we should be approaching women just to get laid, anyways. That sounds like it sucks. I've done it before, and it did suck usually. We should just try to make friendly relationships with the world first. If it comes to more than that with the women, than so be it. But we shouldn't have to try to have sex is what I'm saying.

The whole bar scene expectations are insane to me. Most people there have one goal in mind: sex. As a guy, you are expected to "hunt for prey." What ever happened to just talking amongst other people as friends?


----------



## Grace But Loon

I met my other half online. We share similar interests and met through a forum and then started speaking through msn. I explained everything to him before we met. I was sexually abused a few years before and explained this to him online. Before then I never went to any clubs or made an effort to meet people, I just wanted to be left alone.

It feels much easier to open your heart through a computer than in person. As when you speak to someone online you can leave whenever you feel uncomfortable or take a break from it. Also you feel like your not talking to a human, sort of like talking to your cat really. My other half and I became close friends before we met or anything happened. He knew that I felt uncomfortable with certain situations and in the end when we did meet he felt more nervous than I did! We have been together for nearly 5 years now and I don't regret it for one second. 

On a side note though don't go looking for love. My sister has done this with dating sites etc and it never works out. Love takes its own course, it will find you, not the other way round.


----------



## Kennnie

im a lonely guy.........


----------



## Godless1

I know it's a sore subject on this forum, but god damn do a lot more of these posts start "I met my boyfriend" than "I met my girlfriend". Being a dude with SA does make one the leper of the dating community.


----------



## Kennnie

Godless1 said:


> I know it's a sore subject on this forum, but god damn do a lot more of these posts start "I met my boyfriend" than "I met my girlfriend". Being a dude with SA does make one the leper of the dating community.


 yes it is, very depressing


----------



## Godless1

I Am Annie said:


> People who think like this make it all the more harder for girls like me with SA. We can just lay back and look pretty? And what if we aren't pretty? I understand that it is more socially acceptable for a guy to ask a girl out. But what about those girls who have never been asked out? So we have two options to wait until we look 'pretty'. Or alternatively take things into our hands and end up in the same situation as the guys.


This argument is flawed. Your problem isn't with your anxiety, it is with your looks. Anyone who is unattractive, or perceives themselves that way, is going to have problems in the dating world. An attractive dude with SA is so much lower in the ecosystem than an attractive girl with SA. Being an ugly dude with SA is pretty much the bottom of the dating pool, it barely beats out child molester.


----------



## fictionmachine

White flag. Still hasn't been able to see the light in the end of this tunnel.


----------



## FadeToOne

Godless1 said:


> This argument is flawed. Your problem isn't with your anxiety, it is with your looks. Anyone who is unattractive, or perceives themselves that way, is going to have problems in the dating world. An attractive dude with SA is so much lower in the ecosystem than an attractive girl with SA. B*eing an ugly dude with SA is pretty much the bottom of the dating pool, it barely beats out child molester.*


lol. In a way that is quite true, at least in terms of finding success in the dating world. Child molester = creep, mental/psychological problems, unable to function in society, loser, never be dating material. Quiet guy who keeps to himself and isn't very sociable = same thing pretty much. Only difference is that the latter can eventually change and become more sociable, but then when that happens he is no longer the quiet guy. So at least you have the option. Force yourself to change (which as many of us have figured out is easier said than done), or remain the quiet guy with the same chances as a child molester.

Man, I just want to sign up to the mission to Mars and leave this planet.


----------



## Kon

I generally hate alcohol but it has helped me a lot getting through the first hurdle and sometimes the first few bases with women in the past. Women always scared me more than guys because I had a lot fewer things in common with them. Most of the women I went out with were very extroverted/aggressive. I think they liked me because I was shy/introverted and they could boss me around. The few friends I have call me "bich boy".


----------



## FadeToOne

joinmartin said:


> Okay, fundamental assumption making going on here. One of the most frightening and disgusting things about child molesters is that many of them actually appear "normal".
> 
> Despite what rabid right wing media might want to believe, you can't always spot them when you're walking around the place. Some of them are married, some of them have girlfriends, some of them are in relationships. And the really awful thing can sometimes be that they actually get caught because they abused their own kids which, I'm afraid, really does smash the idea that the child abuser is someone who is always thought of a loser in society, isn't dating potential etc. When their crimes are discovered, they are shunned. But that, unfortunately, doesn't always happen.
> 
> The real question here is when are people going to stop making daft, sweeping assumptions about society, stop dismissing themselves as "losers" and go out and find what they want out of life?


I'm talking about those who have been exposed as child molesters obviously. No you can't spot them out immediately on the street, but same goes with people with SA. But once you find out about their condition, the guy that you can tell has SA and can't function in society isn't much more appealing in the dating game than the registered child molester.


----------



## 49erJT

..


----------



## Melinda

Cheesus Chrust said:


> This is almost not an issue whatsoever for girls. It's the guys that have to make the move and be assertive at the start, unfortunately. So if you're a girl with SA, I hate to be taking sides here, but you got no idea what it's like being a guy with SA and doing the whole dating thing. You gals can pretty much just lay back, look pretty, and it'll come your way. And it sounds like you're on the right track and have a pretty bright future if the ladies are already asking YOU out. Usually you gotta make the move.


I've had two major relationships in my life. Each time, I not only had to make the first move on the guy (as in, let him know without a shadow of a doubt that I liked him) but I also asked both of them out. Each time I was scared to death, too. Maybe that's not the norm--I don't know. All I know is I tried the whole "lay back and look pretty" approach and got nothing (and wasn't that pretty, in all honesty).

To answer OP's question: My current boyfriend was a friend of a friend, and he also happened to be taking the same summer course as I was. Everyone in that class was quite close to one another because it was so intense. Aside from that, I was having a really difficult time outside of class and he understood nearly everything I was going through. He became my best friend first, and then my boyfriend.


----------



## 49erJT

Melinda said:


> I've had two major relationships in my life. Each time, I not only had to make the first move on the guy (as in, let him know without a shadow of a doubt that I liked him) but I also asked both of them out.


Nothing wrong with going after something you want...Congrats on having the courage to (no risk=no reward)


----------



## mooncake

Monroee said:


> But for some reason he was persistent and insisted on sitting next to me and doing all the talking.


This is pretty much what happened to me, back when I was in college. My now boyfriend stole my seat one day so that there was nowhere else to sit but in the chair next to him, and after a few classes he started passing little notes to me so as to pass the time. We would just draw silly pictures or play noughts and crosses and he'd ask me things like what my favourite film was. Back then I was a lot more comfortable with talking online, so after we had swapped msn addresses we spent almost the entire night just chatting and getting to know each other. I still can't quite get my head around how I managed to string enough words together around him, but I suppose things like having a similar taste in music helped, in that it gave us something to talk about. My anxiety was sky high during this time, but even after I ended up cancelling a few times when we were supposed to meet up (due to panic attacks) he still persisted and, eventually, the anxiety lessened around him to the point where we're now living together and completely comfortable around each other.

I do remember, though, that most of the time during the early days, for instance when we would go to the park during breaks at college, we'd be so nervous that we'd sit on a bench talking but hardly daring to even look at each other. It was the oddest blend of anxiety and excitement that I've ever felt and I still can't really understand what he saw in me, but I'm certainly thankful he didn't give up on me (even despite me acting so evasively sometimes due to my anxiety). Safe to say, I feel extremely lucky, especially as he's the only guy to ever have shown an interest in me.

In that respect, I do feel for males with social anxiety since generally it is presumed that the male is the one who'll do the asking out. Is that fair? No, it's not, but unfortunately that's the silly stereotype by which society often views the issue of dating. Although it was terrifying for me at the time, I did manage to overcome my fears enough to reciprocate his interest, but my boyfriend was the persistent one who slowly broke me out of my shell. If he hadn't initiated, I think it's fair to say that I'd still be single today. That said, simply being asked out (and there are many females here who don't get asked out, so you're mistaken if you presume that someone will receive attention simply because they're female), means little if your anxiety impacts upon your ability to form a relationship to such a degree that you find it impossible to reciprocate any attention directed towards you. In that respect, to say that this topic is "almost a non issue for girls" is a somewhat ignorant statement to make. Being asked out doesn't magically land you in a healthy or happy relationship. Believe it or not, there's more to forming a relationship with someone than that intial being asked out... things have to progress beyond that, obviously. Consequently, if a female isn't asked out, or suffers from such severe anxiety that they're unable to build a relationship even despite being asked out then I'd argue that they're pretty much in the same boat as a socially anxious male.

So, knowing that men are the ones 'supposed' to do the asking out may not exactly feel like much of a consolation if no male has ever shown an interest in you before, or, likewise, if you're unable to progress past the initial stage into an actual relationship. So often the effort required to overcome the anxiety of having to interact with someone and to actually develop a relationship seems to be entirely neglected, I feel, in favour of an absolute obsession with harping on about the 'asking out' part of dating. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that.

Yes, it sucks, that society typically expects males to do the chasing, and it's not fair, but I hope some of you are able to realise that women have a lot of problems too regarding dating whilst suffering from social anxiety. Try telling the females here who have never experienced a relationship (and yet who desire to) that they have it easier. How do you think that makes them feel, if no one has ever shown an interest in them before? Having said all this, I do think that it is slowly becoming more commonplace for women to be just as assertive in pursuing relationships as males. Hopefully, therefore, the pressure of doing the asking out will one day be equally distributed between the sexes. That's something positive, at least.


----------



## Ivan AG

We're comparing having SA to child molesters?

Cool story bros....


----------



## googleamiable

the problem here (for guys) is confidence. martin will shout me down rightly so but for the sake of laziness, theres plenty of ugly guys who're a little bit fat who have gf's - because they are confident.

so i was going to say the problem is the issue of confidence rather than _having SA_ in of itself, but actually a lack of confidence would be the a major symptom of SA wouldnt it? u could probably make a graph with 2 lines marked confidence and severity of SA which would look very similar

so im not sure.

martin you say go out there and get what you want but for people without the tools to do that (confidence), then what? its like, you need confidence to go out and get friends/a partner, but u need friends/a partner to gain confidence or?

i suspect the answer is that above paragraph is false and that you can gain confidence on your own through critical thinking and changing your belief system to a healthier more positive one.

my .2


----------



## stranger25

Go through my back posts for own opinion on this.


----------



## ambergris

mooncake said:


> Try telling the females here who have never experienced a relationship (and yet who desire to) that they have it easier. How do you think that makes them feel, if no one has ever shown an interest in them before?


Well, the way some of these guys see it, girls who haven't been asked out either a) don't exist, in spite of what other people keep telling them, or b) have failed at the basic task of 'being pretty' so they wouldn't want to be with us anyway. Pretending to care about our feelings isn't going to get them anywhere they want to be, so why bother?

The OP said he'd been asked out by girls before. Well, if he'd said yes, he could have had a girlfriend. I've tried to initiate things and been rejected, and I've never had the opportunity to reject anyone myself. So much for having it easy. I understand that some places might be stuck in the 19th century as far as gender roles are concerned, with guys having to make all the moves and women just having to sit there and wait to be chosen, but I personally have never lived anywhere like that and I feel genuinely sorry for you if you do.


----------



## googleamiable

ah. I want to just agree because it sounds right but i think other elements factor into this. I agree generally speaking you shouldnt be focused on external factors or validation from others to be emotionally stable, but part of me thinks : but we are social animals, we need friends. 

Need in the true sense of the word, you need friends to talk to when you're happy, when you're sad, to bounce ideas off, to learn about yourself, to learn about life, for everything.

last year for the first time i made real close friends and i can reflect on how the experience contrasted with my ASSUMPTIONS about people, about friendship. and gave me a much more realistic approach to that. 

But what about people who never had a close friend? or a boyfriend/girlfriend? 

i really do agree that clinically speaking, if i were giving advice someone, I would say precisely that you should try to work on your OWN belief system first and once you are more positive and stable, socialising and meeting people will become easier. There are definitely ways to do that on your own, with the help of, say, a therapist. 

You can try to organise your perception of yourself by listing your good and bad qualities, be armed (by the therapist) with empowering knowledge that every human is imperfect, theres nothing wrong with you, skills to use when entering social situations and etc etc

But...i mean look at propoganda and conditioning. how i understand it is that people absorb information from all the influences of lifeeople, family, school, adverts,internet,TV,music,films etc etc, and then interpret it in their own way, thus creating their perspective on life. And i understand that information can be interpreted incorrectly, a simple example : 'she smiled at me' - "but she's only doing that out of sympathy she doesnt really like me".

Running with that idea, if someone has years of internalised introspective, and negative, pessemistic, unrealstic conditioning in their mind, i cant see how they're in a fit state to go out and enact logical professional advice like "go to X and try to meet people", because of their mindset and all the conditioning, theyre almost BOUND to fail .

i dont know, i'll stop rambling for now and wait for input before carrying on.


----------



## stranger25

The looks issue for women is non-existant. On dating sites any woman no matter what she looks like will have a certain pool of men to choose from. I'd argue it's true for the real world as well.


----------



## googleamiable

little caviat: i think social needs are a fundamental human need for a healthy person, emotionally. there's the odd person who can live happily by themselves with NO friends but i see that as a tiny minority


----------



## googleamiable

stranger25 said:


> The looks issue for women is non-existant. On dating sites any woman no matter what she looks like will have a certain pool of men to choose from. I'd argue it's true for the real world as well.


without gender bashing i think this is true. i think its a psychological thing. humans have a tendancy to idolize and fantasize about certain things, look at past examples of hero worship. its cause,humans are an unknowable. you wouldnt worship a chair-you know what it is, its just a chair. but humans are complex, intricate and to a degree un-knowable, so you see a pretty face and you mould the person into your ideal partner. its where 'love at first sight' comes from imo.

and since girls look better than guys, feature wise, thats why its easier for girls.

but theres no point saying it with a massive full stop like, so yea im not even gonna bother. thats just life, its always gonna be like that,and if u become an approachable confident person i dont see any reason any male couldnt find a partner.


----------



## FadeToOne

joinmartin said:


> You're entitled to have this belief. Whether or not it serves you. But where's the evidence for that specific hypothesis?
> 
> Again, it's assumptions made by men about what women want and assumptions that, because they happen to have SA, their worth in the dating game or anywhere else determined by other people's opinions (namely women's opinions). Overly seeking validation from women. If your opinion of yourself is so low that you spend time linking yourself and your circumstances to someone who abuses children, then SA isn't the problem and neither is women's perception of you as a potential date. Speaking generally here.


this is not about me personally, and no I don't really have a low opinion of myself. It's simply a general observation of the way things are. Guys who are outgoing and exert outward confidence are more successful in the dating game. Quiet guys who keep to themselves and do not approach random girls are not - they are basically out of it and a have no chance, unless they were to change themselves and become more outgoing. I don't see what can be argued about that.

Here's another observation from a totally different field: prisoners in some countries get treated and provided for 100X better than poor innocent people in other countries. It's unfair, but it's a fact of life.


----------



## Kon

stranger25 said:


> The looks issue for women is non-existant. On dating sites any woman no matter what she looks like will have a certain pool of men to choose from. I'd argue it's true for the real world as well.


I don't know if it's true. Some really ugly guys can compensate with other things like money, fame, personality but if a female is ugly I would have guessed she's toast. I don't know too many guys that go after women who are ugly just for their money, personality, etc. Maybe I'm biased but I see a lot of really hot women going out with much older, richer and established ugly guys. Women seem to be attracted a lot to security issues and be more practical. Guys seem to think with their penises. I think?


----------



## FadeToOne

Kon said:


> I don't know if it's true. Some really ugly guys can compensate with other things like money, fame, personality but if a female is ugly I would have guessed she's toast. I don't know too many guys that go after women who are ugly just for their money, personality, etc. Maybe I'm biased but I see a lot of really hot women going out with much older, richer and established ugly guys. Women seem to be attracted a lot to security issues and be more practical. Guys seem to think with their penises. I think?


Honestly I can't say I've ever seen a girl who I would describe as "ugly". Whoever said it's all about how you present yourself is right. With the right clothes, hairstyle etc. anyone can look good - vice versa for those that appear beautiful too.


----------



## googleamiable

joinmartin said:


> We need and want friends. But goddess help anyone who needs to use friends and other people to complete them or "prove" that they are good enough. That is gonna go up in smoke big time.
> 
> Connecting and grounding with the self is a great way to find out what you like and the type of person you currently are and that can make connections with people easier. So much talk about not having the resources for this and that when that bloke off youtube was never given arms or legs and still managed to go around the world talking to school kids, inspiring millions and having a best selling DVD range.
> 
> Sometimes you can't do something. I'm never going to give birth. Not without the help of operations and one heck of a medical miracle. But there's huge amounts of stuff where "I can't do this because I lack something or I'm no good" is a lie.


thats the issue right there (1st paragraph). See i think if we use this line as a kind of general, self respect/confidence measure
<-----------------0---------------->
and we say
< = clinical depression, may have suicidal thoughts, insecure, etc.
0 = stable
> = elated, living on cloud 9 kind of feeling (maybe you'd feel like this if you propose and your partner says "yes" - so it certainly wouldnt be a constant)

very generally speaking...
if a depressed person with low self esteem is somewhere towards "<" then certainly they can improve it to a degree with help. if they can do it entirely on their own, like fundamentally assess and repair their mindset ON THEIR OWN, theyre an incredible massively intelligent person. i think u cant do it on your own, and u dont need to. you can get help, and you should, and with that help, if you're open minded and humble, and willing and ready to assess yourself in a critical objective way, including facets of your personality / past you'd rather keep supressed, like i said you can raise it to a degree.

maybe to somewhere within reaching distance of the 0. but i think having friends WILL complete you. i met someone who was really amazing in that he was able to befriend almost anyone, he could judge people really really well very quickly, and people would open up to him, and he was friends with pretty much every guy and every girl (that he wanted to be friends with). and he told me "if i didnt have friends i'd kill myself".

not in a, im sad or depressed way, in a, friends are SO important to me kind of way. and thats how i see it. friends put you back in line when you feel like drifting off down the wrong road, give u input, give u perspective, give u motivation. it shouldn't be a 100% dependancy of course not, but a mix. say, 60% of it comes from you and your own self esteem, the rest from your friends

this is all TOTALLY subjective, and just how i see it.


----------



## Ivan AG

FadeToOne said:


> Quiet guys who keep to themselves and do not approach random girls are not - they are basically out of it and a have no chance, unless they were to change themselves and become more outgoing. I don't see what can be argued about that.


Wasn't there a certain stereotype called the "strong, quiet type"? lol


----------



## 49erJT

..


----------



## Chivor

Met at uni. Best friend turned girlfriend. 
Took the whole year for me to pluck up the courage and tell her though.


----------



## Kon

FadeToOne said:


> Honestly I can't say I've ever seen a girl who I would describe as "ugly". Whoever said it's all about how you present yourself is right. With the right clothes, hairstyle etc. anyone can look good - vice versa for those that appear beautiful too.


I don't buy that. I can't picture Rosie O'Donnell, Camilla Parker-Bowles, Janet Reno...etc. as looking good even after a bottle of Jack Daniels and even if they were wearing black-lace stockings with high-heel shoes and crutchless panties. It just ain't happening.


----------



## mooncake

ambergris said:


> Well, the way some of these guys see it, girls who haven't been asked out either a) don't exist, in spite of what other people keep telling them, or b) have failed at the basic task of 'being pretty' so they wouldn't want to be with us anyway. Pretending to care about our feelings isn't going to get them anywhere they want to be, so why bother?
> 
> The OP said he'd been asked out by girls before. Well, if he'd said yes, he could have had a girlfriend. I've tried to initiate things and been rejected, and I've never had the opportunity to reject anyone myself. So much for having it easy. I understand that some places might be stuck in the 19th century as far as gender roles are concerned, with guys having to make all the moves and women just having to sit there and wait to be chosen, but I personally have never lived anywhere like that and I feel genuinely sorry for you if you do.


Hmm, strange how posts such as yours wherein a female talks about their attempts to ask men out, only to be rejected, seem to generate little response. Dare a female complain about being single, though, and they're sure to be subject to scores of bitter and over the top posts within minutes. Shame on you for having the audacity to dispell the myth that each and every woman can get a man at the click of their fingers, I suppose.

Well, you certainly have my admiration for being brave enough to initiate things. Maybe some people will realise from posts such as yours that it can come across as being extremely patronising and unhelpful to be told that you apparantly have it easier, when your experience probably suggests nothing of the sort. Of course people are entitled to their own opinions on topics such as these, but tactfulness in expressing them or opening your mind to other people's experiences is surely no bad thing.


----------



## stranger25

Kon said:


> I don't know if it's true. Some really ugly guys can compensate with other things like money, fame, personality but if a female is ugly I would have guessed she's toast. I don't know too many guys that go after women who are ugly just for their money, personality, etc. Maybe I'm biased but I see a lot of really hot women going out with much older, richer and established ugly guys. Women seem to be attracted a lot to security issues and be more practical. Guys seem to think with their penises. I think?


Men only go by looks and mostly want sex (ALONG with a loving relationship of course). This is our default programming as males. Most of us don't care if a woman is poor, or has social issues, or doesn't have much of a life. If she can have sex with us, we are satisfied.

Women go by looks (because they want the best looking kids, and you add in media brainwashing and social conditioning/programming where guys like zac efron and just beiber are the best looking guys on earth) and money 2nd of course.

Here's the difference:

If men can't find a woman they are attracted to, they will settle for what's available (meaning even if she isn't that attractive). The other stuff like social issues and money still doesn't matter.

Women won't do this. Since they only look for equal and above, the men who are below will be left OUT. Women can use their sexual power to win most of the top 10% and 20% rich guys or powerful guys. It's hypergamy.

Chances are if you are unemployed, have social anxiety or any issues like me, chances are you are one of those men that are and are going to be left out somehow.

Then, you bring in rising feminism, and gender roles where men have to be providers and do all the approaching and it's all just a bunch a wash.

In short: men are competing in a rigged system

there's alot of grey area to it.


----------



## googleamiable

^forreal...?

i cant agree with u on any of that lol


----------



## peach

stranger25 said:


> Men only go by looks and mostly want sex (ALONG with a loving relationship of course). This is our default programming as males. Most of us don't care if a woman is poor, or has social issues, or doesn't have much of a life. If she can have sex with us, we are satisfied.
> 
> Women go by looks (because they want the best looking kids, and you add in media brainwashing and social conditioning/programming where guys like zac efron and just beiber are the best looking guys on earth) and money 2nd of course.


Oh just say it. Men=victims, women=leeches.

Did it never occur to you that perhaps your lack of success in relationships has nothing to do with SA or True Forced Loneliness, but your obvious lack of respect and low opinion of women?

Women like me don't fit your narrow view. I'm with a man who is ten years older than me, has been unemployed for the last two years, has no money, and cannot give me children. I'm the one who works, and a lot of people (including him) tell me that I can do better. But as far as I'm concerned, there is no one better for me. I'm crazy about him despite the fact that I cannot benefit financially or biologically by being with him.

Maybe if you took the time to get to know a woman instead of feeling sorry for yourself and just assuming she's a gold-digging louse who only cares about herself and her offspring, you'd have a little bit of luck with the ladies.


----------



## ambergris

FadeToOne said:


> Honestly I can't say I've ever seen a girl who I would describe as "ugly".


That's exactly the point. You _don't_ see us. We're invisible to you. And apparently inaudible, since even when you are repeatedly told that there ARE women who have never attracted any male interest and we know this because we ARE them, you remain in denial that we exist.

(this is a plural 'you' by the way.)

:bash

ok, I'm done.


----------



## Ivan AG

If you were an alien with no knowledge on human relations who happens to be reading this forum and you stumbled on this thread, you would think humans are some creatures completely controlled by their "natural programming" with absolutely minimal (some would argue none) capacity to have personal preferences which did not involve all the factors listed such as resources, status, etc.

There is a lot of victimization going on here. *A lot*.


----------



## Godless1

joinmartin said:


> No, it's an observation of what you see and what you think you see. Given that observation is, by itself, an unreliable informer, we can't really have too many fully objective observations. You saw something, interpreted it and placed a meaning on it. That's not how things are. That's what you've experienced and what you think.
> 
> A lot can be argued about that because you are making sweeping assumptions. Assuming that "being outgoing" is some kind of static, that being "quiet" is some kind of static and, just because some "outgoing guys" happen to have succeeded in dating, suddenly, that's the only way to do it and you have to be like that in order to succeed. Which is pure nonsense.
> 
> It is possible for a quiet guy to become an outgoing guy without losing being quiet. I mean, for a start, he's not quiet if I set him on fire. I'd imagine he'd be quite noisy about that so sometimes, stopping looking at people as if their labels and going past observations and into the individual workings of people helps a lot.


Empirical observation is our best means to establish how things are. Unless you are trying to get really existential and debate the nature of reality, I don't really see your point. For the record, I don't consider myself an unattractive person, but from everything I've observed in my 24 years of existence, the classically unattractive dude with anxiety is the lowest on rung of the dating ladder. I don't really think this is a revolutionary or controversial statement.

Look at it this way, if I walk you into any school or workplace and tell you there is 1000 dollars in it for you if you can pick out a single person. You are honestly telling me that you wouldn't pick out the least attractive socially withdrawn guy.


----------



## Kon

This study review discusses this difference between men and women and why women must place greater emphasis on looks:

"Men agree a lot more about who they find attractive and unattractive than women agree about who they find attractive and unattractive," says Wood, assistant professor of psychology. "This study shows we can quantify the extent to which men agree about which women are attractive and vice versa.

Men's judgments of women's attractiveness were based primarily around physical features and they rated highly those who looked thin and seductive. Most of the men in the study also rated photographs of women who looked confident as more attractive. As a group, the women rating men showed some preference for thin, muscular subjects, but disagreed on how attractive many men in the study were. Some women gave high attractiveness ratings to the men other women said were not attractive at all.

"As far as we know, this is the first study to investigate whether there are differences in the level of consensus male and female raters have in their attractiveness judgments," Wood says. "These differences have implications for the different experiences and strategies that could be expected for men and women in the dating marketplace."

For example, women may encounter less competition from other women for the men they find attractive, he says. Men may need to invest more time and energy in attracting and then guarding their mates from other potential suitors, given that the mates they judge attractive are likely to be found attractive by many other men. Wood says the study results have implications for eating disorders and how expectations regarding attractiveness affect behavior.

The study helps explain why women experience stronger norms than men to obtain or maintain certain physical characteristics," he says. "Women who are trying to impress men are likely to be found much more attractive if they meet certain physical standards, and much less if they don't. Although men are rated as more attractive by women when they meet these physical appearance standards too, their overall judged attractiveness isn't as tightly linked to their physical features." The age of the participants also played a role in attractiveness ratings. Older participants were more likely to find people attractive if they were smiling.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090626153511.htm


----------



## Sean14

Im right there with ya man. I have many gfs to be honest. Most of them i lucked out into having. I do not care about anything else. All i have ever cared about is finding my better half and havent even gotten close thus far. There is a lot of girls on here talking about this. However it is much much different for a chick to get a bf than vice versa. In our culture 98 % of the time the guy has to make all of the first moves. So like someone else on here posted us dudes with SAD are F***ed when it comes to the dating world. All we can do is luck out, or get better. Sad times. It sucks however to bust ur *** at work everyday and school never getting what you really want/need.


----------



## Ape in space

Kon said:


> I don't know if it's true. Some really ugly guys can compensate with other things like money, fame, personality *but if a female is ugly I would have guessed she's toast.* I don't know too many guys that go after women who are ugly just for their money, personality, etc. Maybe I'm biased but I see a lot of really hot women going out with much older, richer and established ugly guys. Women seem to be attracted a lot to security issues and be more practical. Guys seem to think with their penises. I think?


Not wishing to get in the middle of a war here, but I disagree with the above statement. I've seen plenty of unattractive women being pursued by several guys. This was the case even when the guys themselves didn't find her physically attractive.



FadeToOne said:


> Honestly I can't say I've ever seen a girl who I would describe as "ugly". Whoever said it's all about how you present yourself is right. With the right clothes, hairstyle etc. anyone can look good - vice versa for those that appear beautiful too.


I would have to agree. It's not that I'm attracted to every girl or that I ignore or overlook unattractive girls. But I have never seen a girl who was 'beyond redemption'. I have often thought, when seeing a girl who was rather disastrous looking, that she could actually look somewhat attractive if she made a few simple changes. Thinking back on the most unattractive girl I've met, I think that even she would look nice if she didn't dress like an old lady, got some glasses that weren't huge, lost some weight and took care of her hair so that it didn't look like a bomb had just exploded nearby. I can sort of imagine what she would look like if she did all that, and the result would be quite nice. But even without doing all that, she is engaged to some dude.

So being an unattractive female certainly isn't a death sentence, even though males are generally more focused on looks. And, for that matter, being a shy male isn't necessarily a death sentence either, even though males are generally expected to initiate things.


----------



## Godless1

joinmartin said:


> No it is not. Observation is far, far too vulnerable for it to be that. The human being cannot make an objective observation. We observe, interpret and place meaning onto things but we so often get that meaning wrong and work on too little data to be able to actually come up with anything concrete.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was perfect, just our best method. If you know a better means of understanding social phenomenon than empirical observation, please share. Again, I'm not talking about absolute truth, I'm just talking about the best we can do with the limits of human perception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there you prove why observation is not a good tool for learning by itself. You observed what I'd written but didn't understand it fully. So you had to ask again. Observation was not enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a really weak analogy. Really, it speaks more to my reading comprehension skills than to anything about observation of social behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here and elsewhere it may not be a controversial statement but that doesn't make it a correct one. The "dating ladder" is a made up construct anyway. What on earth is "classically unattractive"? Because there's another thing about observation and the weakness of it. You "observe" someone to be "unattractive" but that's a subjective, vulnerable, relative opinion and or prejudice inspired judgement on someone not an objective observation of reality (if such a thing holds). Thus exposing the weakness of observation alone as a method for learning and understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you're getting a little bit too philosophical for your own good. Of course the "dating ladder" is a social construct. So is dating in general. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Obviously, some people are more likely to get dates than others. That's all I'm getting mean by the "dating ladder". While, to a certain extent, it is true that beauty is subjective, biological impulses and societal factors lead us to view certain features as more attractive than others. No one is going to argue that Susan Boyle is more attractive than Marylin Monroe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would I know from looking at him if he was socially withdrawn? Now, I have a developing sensory acuity from the work I've done on my course so I might notice a lot. But that's still not enough for me to be sure from observation alone that someone is socially anxious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I'm not saying this would be 100 percent, but I'm saying this would definitely be my strategy, and probably most people would do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> What is "least attractive" to me may well not be the same as what is "least attractive" to you which would mean that we would be operating from two different maps of the world so yes, I may very well not pick out what you would consider to be the least attractive, socially anxious guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I guess, for the sake of this thought experiment, "least attractive" would be the dude you believed was the least attractive. Again, there are some universal standards of attractiveness, it isn't completely subjective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I don't believe that being "classically unattractive" or "anxious" is automatically an indicator of being single so I wouldn't look for that and we all know the power of beliefs on the observations we make which again shows the weakness of observation alone as a learning method.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course it isn't an automatic indicator, but it is a damn fine indicator. In fact, I am positing that these traits are the best indicators one can use when observing humans in a social setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scientific studies go a very long way to suggest that the human being can be manipulated into recalling events that have never actually happened. Given that, we can see that the human mind- as wonderful as it is- is not automatically seeing or observing objective reality in all or perhaps even a majority of situations so to rely solely on observation alone and act as if it isn't somehow coloured by subjective, relative insights and other stuff is very dangerous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet those scientific studies isolated those variables and used empirical evidence to make those claims. Anyway, yes all observation, not to mention all human experience, is subjective and no one's opinions are infallible, but that does not discount my point. If it did that would discount everything. Does one plus one really equal two, or is that just a subjective observation? This can quickly devolve into a realism v. anti-realism discussion, but that is really far off-topic.
Click to expand...


----------



## Godless1

joinmartin said:


> Okay, seriously, this self pitying stuff off "guys with SA are royally screwed because they have SA and it's the man's job to approach...and other theories about the world..." has got to stop. It does nothing. It moves nothing. And, for the most part, it isn't actually true. You think a shy guy has never got a girl? Rubbish. You think a guy who struggles to talk to women never got a girl? Rubbish. Only outgoing guys have sex? Rubbish. It's not ideas about the man's role or having SA that stops a guy. But rushing to wallow in some dark perceptions of the self just might stop a guy from getting what he wants.


No one is suggesting any of that. All we're saying is that society puts certain stigmas on anxious guys, as well as unattractive guys. Thus, unattractive anxious guys are at a huge disadvantage in the dating world. Women, on the other hand, do not face all of the same stigmas. I will concede that they do face a few men do not face as severely, such as weight issues, but, in my opinion, no one has to overcome as much in the dating world as an unattractive, anxiety ridden man.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Godless1 said:


> No one is suggesting any of that. All we're saying is that society puts certain stigmas on anxious guys, as well as unattractive guys. Thus, unattractive anxious guys are at a huge disadvantage in the dating world. Women, on the other hand, do not face all of the same stigmas. I will concede that they do face a few men do not face as severely, such as weight issues, but, in my opinion, no one has to overcome as much in the dating world as an unattractive, anxiety ridden man.


Godless has an excellent point here. I will say I am somewhat attractive, so I would probably fit into the SAD semi-attractive category. But man, I could see how bad that would be if I was unattractive and my SAD. That would make getting a woman much harder than it already is for me.

JoinMartin, in your previous post it almost sounds like you are trying to say that guys with anxiety are just "making excuses." That has led me to question you, do you have SAD? Because it sounds like you don't know what it's like to have SAD.


----------



## nothing to fear

Um, anyway, OP - I met my boyfriend here on SAS. We initially were just online friends and had been talking to each other for several months, and then he happened to be in my city so we met up and yada yada yada... (j/k, it still took a few more months before we got past the "friends" bit).


----------



## stranger25

Enough with the female success stories. How about some male ones. Not "limited" to the internet and forums either. But in the real world.


----------



## Godless1

stranger25 said:


> Enough with the female success stories. How about some male ones. Not "limited" to the internet and forums either. But in the real world.


...:time


----------



## IcemanKilmer

stranger25 said:


> Enough with the female success stories. How about some male ones. Not "limited" to the internet and forums either. But in the real world.


That's because there aren't many shy male success stories at all. Shy guys have it harder than shy women. Most of these women with the success stories were approached by men. I wish a girl would approach me and hand me a relationship on a silver platter like that. If only it were that easy.


----------



## Welchsboy

Reality and fantasy are 2 completely different things. You make it seem like all women have the choice of men, when in reality a lot will eventually learn to settle for what's achievable. I've seen plenty of unemployed men or losers with girlfriends. Marriage, that's rarer. 

On the other hand, it's true, however, that a man who is too shy has the worse end of the stick, because SOCIETY as a whole rejects them. Shy women are ok. Shy men are not. Ever heard someone say that deep down women and men are the same? They both have feelings, but it's the men who are left out if they are shy.

A shy man faces unique difficulties that shy women will never, ever have to face, and you'd have to actually be a man to realize these issues. They're subtle but ever-so-pervasive. 

In any case, a beautiful woman has an incredible amount of power to pick and choose her relationships, while a successful male CEO has just as much, if not more. It is on the lower end where things get a little more ambiguous.


----------



## LostProphet

joinmartin said:


> Okay, seriously, this self pitying stuff off "guys with SA are royally screwed because they have SA and it's the man's job to approach...and other theories about the world..." has got to stop. It does nothing. It moves nothing. And, for the most part, it isn't actually true. You think a shy guy has never got a girl? Rubbish. You think a guy who struggles to talk to women never got a girl? Rubbish. Only outgoing guys have sex? Rubbish. It's not ideas about the man's role or having SA that stops a guy. But rushing to wallow in some dark perceptions of the self just might stop a guy from getting what he wants.


No one said it was going to change anything, nor did they say that shy guys never get girls. This is simply the reality for many of us.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Welchsboy said:


> Reality and fantasy are 2 completely different things. You make it seem like all women have the choice of men, when in reality a lot will eventually learn to settle for what's achievable.


That makes me question whether love exists. I mean settling just for what's achievable sounds like giving up on finding your soul-mate and just settling for someone that is willing to be your partner. That's not love, that's desperation.


----------



## JunkBondTrader

I feel the exact same way - how the hell am I supposed to have a relationship if I get so much anxiety from everything?! I rush to get home to my room too. 
If you don't mind me asking, whereabouts in Ontario do you live?


----------



## stranger25

ambergris said:


> That's exactly the point. You _don't_ see us. We're invisible to you. And apparently inaudible, since even when you are repeatedly told that there ARE women who have never attracted any male interest and we know this because we ARE them, you remain in denial that we exist.
> 
> (this is a plural 'you' by the way.)
> 
> :bash
> 
> ok, I'm done.


Sign up for dating site

wait for boatloads of messages from men (as a female) for sex and relationship offers

profit!


----------



## IcemanKilmer

stranger25 said:


> Sign up for dating site
> 
> wait for boatloads of messages (as a female) for sex and relationship offers
> 
> profit!


Stranger is exactly right. Sign up for OKCupid or something, it's free. Even the ugliest women get stormed with messages on dating sites(no I'm not saying you're ugly, just making a point that any woman can find a guy on there).

I'm not really sure what to tell men about dating sites though. I've messaged over 40 women and haven't gotten 1 date out of that. It seems dating sites are like real-life for shy men, except it's even more sad because women don't have to listen to you, they can just not message you back or block you.


----------



## andy1984

I had a gf once.... met on a dating site.


----------



## Kon

Welchsboy said:


> You make it seem like all women have the choice of men, when in reality a lot will eventually learn to settle for what's achievable. I've seen plenty of unemployed men or losers with girlfriends. Marriage, that's rarer.


`
I agree. I was unemployed, no assets, living at home with my mommy and daddy since my late 20s and had SAD, introverted and owed almost $100,000 in student loans. I met someone who got me a job in her company, supported me through university and married me. I know it`s rare but some women will risk a lot to go out with a guy they want to have a relationship with.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

andy1984 said:


> I had a gf once.... met on a dating site.


How many different women did you message?


----------



## puffins

drinking at parties...any dates after that and they all found my shyness 'cute' (guess it makes people think you're more trustworthy or something, which it probably does.) now i have an amazing supportive boyfriend of nearly three years.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

puffins said:


> drinking at parties...any dates after that and they all found my shyness 'cute' (guess it makes people think you're more trustworthy or something, which it probably does.) now i have an amazing supportive boyfriend of nearly three years.


Yeah, exactly. When a girl is shy it's cute, and when a guy is shy he's a wimp according to much of society. There have been so many women that have called me a girl I started to get used to it.


----------



## stranger25

Godless1 said:


> No one is suggesting any of that. All we're saying is that society puts certain stigmas on anxious guys, as well as unattractive guys. Thus, unattractive anxious guys are at a huge disadvantage in the dating world. Women, on the other hand, do not face all of the same stigmas. I will concede that they do face a few men do not face as severely, such as weight issues, but, in my opinion, no one has to overcome as much in the dating world as an unattractive, anxiety ridden man.


There is alot of stigma out there. Alot of women will run for the hills or consider it a red flag for a guy to be inexperienced still at a certain age, or because he acts weird or whatever. Plus look at "funny" movies like american pie and the 40 year old virgin. Most males that are at the bottom of the totem pole are involuntarily celibate aka incel and will admit to having almost no experience with the opposite sex ever, in their lives, and being at a high age. Some 20's, some 30's, some 40's+. I've chatted with a few who were 50+ and never had a date. Some of them were very successful in life, but claimed they were ugly, which explains why, or lived screwed up lives or bad circumstances etc.

Most guys at the bottom of the totem pole will identify with these:

Any kind of mental, or psychological issues
Mediorce/Average Looks/varys (VERY important!!)
Unemployed, Living in povery, etc.
Late virginity
grew up in bad families atmosphere, bullied when young, abused, etc.

Watch the videos I posted, the one about the young guys who are being shunned today. Low status males. That's the 10% he points out, but as mentioned, it's alot higher, and higher age ranges as well. I think it's about 20%. Who are forced out, or can't compete.


----------



## Georgina 22

I met my current boyfriend on this site  I think it's much easier to meet someone online.


----------



## ambergris

IcemanKilmer said:


> Even the ugliest women get stormed with messages on dating sites(no I'm not saying you're ugly, just making a point that any woman can find a guy on there).


OK, and you know this how? All accounts by ugly women on all dating sites have actually been set up by you and you have access to all their messages? This seems to me unlikely. I am on OKCupid, as it happens, and have never had a single message. But I guess you're just going to ignore that statement the same way as you ignored all my others, because it doesn't fit with your fantasy version of reality.


----------



## stranger25

ambergris said:


> OK, and you know this how? All accounts by ugly women on all dating sites have actually been set up by you and you have access to all their messages? This seems to me unlikely. I am on OKCupid, as it happens, and have never had a single message. But I guess you're just going to ignore that statement the same way as you ignored all my others, because it doesn't fit with your fantasy version of reality.


I don't believe you. It's easy to do a "POF experiment" to see how women have the upper hand on there. Like the guy in the videos did. Hundreds of messages.


----------



## DCP

l


----------



## secretlyshecries

> This is almost not an issue whatsoever for girls. It's the guys that have to make the move and be assertive at the start, unfortunately. So if you're a girl with SA, I hate to be taking sides here, but you got no idea what it's like being a guy with SA and doing the whole dating thing. You gals can pretty much just lay back, look pretty, and it'll come your way. And it sounds like you're on the right track and have a pretty bright future if the ladies are already asking YOU out. Usually you gotta make the move.


Oh god, what handbook are you all reading from? The 'girls have it easier' crap, again? You know, that attitude on this forum really offends me. It's the one thing that always makes me just want to stop coming here. God knows it's made me come a lot less at times. I don't know why I even look in any threads about 'boyfriends and girlfriends' when I _know _by now that they're all going to be riddled with posts like this. Maybe I just like to torture myself. :roll

I'm just sick of guys talking like they're experienced both sides, male and female, because that is the only way you'd _truly _be able to compare the two-- if you had lived both of them. But you haven't. You haven't been me, you haven't been a girl. So how dare you make as though you know what it's like just because you look around at so many pretty girls with boyfriends. Where does this 'every single girl is pretty and guys will do anything for her' belief come from?

And I don't think being quiet is necessarily seen as somehow 'cute' and/or mysterious (in an attractive way) by others as everyone seems to think it is. _Some _might find those qualities desirable but there are just as many people who might wonder 'why the **** I'm so quiet' and treat me like a freak for it. Amazing, I know, that it is not thought of as an endearing quality by all who meet me.

Another thing that baffles me is the fact that so many guys on this forum complain about girls who make posts about their boyfriends/husbands, and say they never see any males do the same-- I've seen _plenty _of posts about girlfriends and wives. In this thread alone there were a few posts from guys saying they date just fine.

I think what bothers me the most about this whole thing is the fact that so many of us have lived our lives hoping someone will understand that SA _does _exist for us, that it's not just extreme shyness or anything of the sort, and that it is a real problem for us in our day-to-day lives. We all come on this forum and tell each other we understand because we all have the same problem, but then some people decide, 'hang on, no we don't, _my_ problem is worse than yours. In fact, you hardly _have _a problem.' It hurts. Here I was thinking we were all in this together but apparently some people just have to 'win' at everything.

So I guess I'll just be going back to lying back and looking pretty now. As a girl it is clearly my job, and I can be sure to be approached by a number of people just for sitting here.


----------



## pinkcupcake

I am in my 40's now and it's hard to meet people. On top of that I am really picky. I usually try to go out as much as I can, when the few friends I have want to go out to try and meet someone. But I have always had a hard time with small talk, and I feel like because I don't have many friends I seem weird and guys wont like me. However I think my big problem is I sleep with guys too fast. I also agree to meet guys at bars, and in doing that I never get a 'REAL DATE". 

I was married but it was to someone I never really wanted to date in the first place. I got used to him and then I got pregnant so I felt trapped. We are now divorced. I always felt like I couldn't get anyone better so I just married him. And now I am single, with no money, and kids, who wants that?


----------



## IcemanKilmer

ambergris said:


> OK, and you know this how? All accounts by ugly women on all dating sites have actually been set up by you and you have access to all their messages? This seems to me unlikely. I am on OKCupid, as it happens, and have never had a single message. But I guess you're just going to ignore that statement the same way as you ignored all my others, because it doesn't fit with your fantasy version of reality.


I don't believe this. There must be more to the story than this. Everyone gets at least one message eventually on OKCupid. how long have you been on there? Do you even have a picture on there? Or a profile?


----------



## IcemanKilmer

pinkcupcake said:


> . I always felt like I couldn't get anyone better so I just married him. And now I am single, with no money, and kids, who wants that?


Don't feel bad about this. I believe at least half of society does this same thing: gets married out of fear of being alone and/or fear of not finding anyone better.


----------



## mooncake

joinmartin said:


> Pleasure to read your post secretlyshecries.


Indeed, great post. So many people on here are so focused on singling out only what they _want_ to see, and on perpetuating their (often extremely irrational) beliefs, that it's really quite unbelievable at times. How can a person so confidently claim that it's their socially anxiety which is hindering their ability to form a relationship? It couldn't possibly be the general misogyny and deep-seated, extreme bitterness, along with all the overly-simplistic blanket assumptions that put people off, could it? One's things for sure, with that kind of attitude, you're pretty much guaranteed to stay single. Males have posted here about their relationships, why are such posts completely bypassed? Oh, that's right, they don't count. After all, we couldn't possibly allow them to disprove the theory (forgive me, fact) that all socially anxious males are the scum of the earth in women's eyes could we? :twak


----------



## IcemanKilmer

mooncake said:


> After all, we couldn't possibly allow them to disprove the theory (forgive me, fact) that all socially anxious males are the scum of the earth in women's eyes could we? :twak


I don't think women think socially anxious males are all scum of the earth, I just think that many of them tend to not be attracted to us as much as guys that aren't so shy. Most women want a guy that can open up to her, open up to the world and be socially confident. Many SAD men lack these qualities, including myself.


----------



## mooncake

IcemanKilmer said:


> I don't think women think socially anxious males are all scum of the earth, I just think that many of them tend to not be attracted to us as much as guys that aren't so shy. Most women want a guy that can open up to her, open up to the world and be socially confident. Many SAD men lack these qualities, including myself.


I don't disagree that it's certainly harder to date and form friendships and relationships with social anxiety, but the fact that there are guys who have posted here about being in a relationship shows that it's by no means impossible to be a socially anxious male and yet to have a romantic partner. If you read an earlier post of mine, you'll see what my opinion is on how it is for males (I don't really want to repeat a host of things here, since it's all been said before numerous times, but I don't disagree at all that they have it hard)... I just think that some poster's mentalities (and I understand that they feel frustrated, to put it mildly) are the biggest hindrances to themselves.

Constantly thinking in terms of generalisations can be extremely destructive and it's not going to do you any good. In fact, from the looks of it, it just seems to promote bitterness and hatred, which is never an attractive trait for anyone to display. If you're trapped in an entirely negative mindset about women (I'm not directing this at you personally, but just generally) and/or constantly whinging about the fact that women will never want to be with you, well no... you probably aren't going to find anyone who wants to be with you.

There are so many girls out in the world who just want a companion, and someone to share things with. We're not all as fickle and dismissive as some might think. The ones with attitudes which stink and who have a ridiculous checklist of attributes and traits a potential partner has to have tend to stand out because they're often the loud and obnoxious type, I'd imagine (yes, now I'm bloody generalising myself...). Those are the types I would have thought guys would be glad not to be with, but what would I know? Girls who don't give a crap about those things might be harder to find, but they _are_ out there. Women have posted here about having themselves asked out men and been rejected. It's not fair to simply dismiss and downplay their emotional pain purely because of their gender, because it isn't fair to lump us all together in the same category. It's offensive. It's offensive for those of us who don't fit the stereotype that's bandied about here of a 'typical women' to either be told that we're lying or that we somehow don't count. Most of the guys on this site don't do that, but the minority who do really make this site an unpleasant place.


----------



## stranger25

joinmartin said:


> It may very well be easy to do an experiment. But that wouldn't prove that women automatically had the upper hand. Just that a lot of guys take the scatter gun approach to online dating instead of finding someone, reading their profile and looking for actual connection. No surprises there. Plus, kinda suggests that men go for looks more than women do since, if someone did get 100s of messages, one could surmise that they got a lot of those messages based on the photo and not on the men reading the profile and seeking proper connection. But that's not provable. And all just thinking of different ideas.
> 
> However, just because you could do such an experiment does not mean that the person who said they were on okcupid had got no messages was lying. Just because it doesn't fit into what you think of as true doesn't make it any the less real.
> 
> Now, I would love the chance to work with the person on okcupid who hasn't got any messages. Not saying they are doing anything wrong at all but be interesting to see what's going on and how things can be changed to be more positive for that person or at least give that person the ability to choose.
> 
> So, that option is open via PM if it is wanted at any time.


How about we do a POF expirement then? Find a picture of a girl who everyone here claims is "unattractive" and make a profile on one of the big name dating sites?



IcemanKilmer said:


> Don't feel bad about this. I believe at least half of society does this same thing: gets married out of fear of being alone and/or fear of not finding anyone better.


Not exactly. Unless you look like one of those guys from the twilight movies.


----------



## Kon

IcemanKilmer said:


> I don't think women think socially anxious males are all scum of the earth, I just think that many of them tend to not be attracted to us as much as guys that aren't so shy. Most women want a guy that can open up to her, open up to the world and be socially confident. Many SAD men lack these qualities, including myself.


There are also non-SAD personality features that play as an important, if not more important role, in getting a mate. And of course along with stuff like physical attractiveness/money/humour, etc. Sometimes I think we are more prone to try to blame our relationship failures on SAD/Introversion/AS when other non-SAD personality issues may also be playing a major role. Most people here have SAD but some are as different as night and day because of differennces in other personality components.


----------



## anomalous

mooncake said:


> Males have posted here about their relationships, why are such posts completely bypassed? Oh, that's right, they don't count.





mooncake said:


> I don't disagree that it's certainly harder to date and form friendships and relationships with social anxiety, but the fact that there are guys who have posted here about being in a relationship shows that it's by no means impossible to be a socially anxious male and yet to have a romantic partner.


Yes, there are men here in relationships. Yes, SA is a hindrance to both genders in terms of getting into relationships.

Let's just not pretend the numbers are equal, because that's not realistic.

The reason men are citing SAS women's posts about being in relationships is because there are *a lot* more of them here than men's. The proportion of women here with notable romantic and sexual experience is not similar to the proportion of men, even as a first approximation.

You can say that it doesn't matter, that we're all individuals, etc. But that's just your opinion. In my opinion, and many others', the very noticeable discrepancy between genders is noteworthy and warrants discussion.


----------



## mooncake

anomalous said:


> Yes, there are men here in relationships. Yes, SA is a hindrance to both genders in terms of getting into relationships.
> 
> Let's just not pretend the numbers are equal, because that's not realistic.
> 
> The reason men are citing SAS women's posts about being in relationships is because there are *a lot* more of them here than men's. The proportion of women here with notable romantic and sexual experience is not similar to the proportion of men, even as a first approximation.
> 
> You can say that it doesn't matter, that we're all individuals, etc. But that's just your opinion. In my opinion, and many others', the very noticeable discrepancy between genders is noteworthy and warrants discussion.


I'm not arguing about the proportion of males in relationships compared to females. I'm just taking issue with the woman-bashing that goes on in these types of threads by a few select posters and the overwhelming negativity that is constantly displayed. The posts made by males in relationships appear to more or less always go *completely* ignored. It's not realistic to completely bypass such posts when you're attempting to make sweeping statements about how no socially anxious male will ever be desirable to a woman.


----------



## stranger25

It's more besides being socially anxious. It's about looks as well. 

I don't really see how the stuff guys say on here could be considered generalizations. Maybe partly. I know girls can have their own setbacks in the dating world. But overall men have much more to go through. However I think it's just some harsh truth that alot of people don't put alot of thought into and take for granted. This is a taboo topic that society doesn't want to get out. Considering you're a girl, it's obvious that you just can't relate to the stuff we are talking about here. They are mainly male issues. Getting a date, approaching, personality, looks, money, everything else, it's men who have to do the work. We're programmed to believe in the zeitgeist. It's up to us to break free from the zeitgeist and start being free thinkers, and rejecting bad social conditioning and today's collapsing society.


----------



## peach

stranger25 said:


> It's more besides being socially anxious. It's about looks as well.
> 
> I don't really see how the stuff guys say on here could be considered generalizations. Maybe partly. I know girls can have their own setbacks in the dating world. But overall men have much more to go through. However I think it's just some harsh truth that alot of people don't put alot of thought into and take for granted. This is a taboo topic that society doesn't want to get out. Considering you're a girl, it's obvious that you just can't relate to the stuff we are talking about here. They are mainly male issues. Getting a date, approaching, personality, looks, money, everything else, it's men who have to do the work. We're programmed to believe in the zeitgeist. It's up to us to break free from the zeitgeist and start being free thinkers, and rejecting bad social conditioning and today's collapsing society.


Your head is full of nonsense. There is nothing more conformist than claiming to be a "free thinker," especially when you continue to ignore everything the females in this thread have said to debunk your negative stereotyping of what women seek in mates. For all of your whining about women having all of the power and being a bunch of gold-digging leeches only interested in looks and money, you haven't shown an ounce of respect to women in general, and don't seem all that interested in actually conversing with a female at all. Why not just get together with your True Forced Loneliness pals and just bone each other and get it over with? Maybe you'll be happier that way.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

stranger25 said:


> Not exactly. Unless you look like one of those guys from the twilight movies.


It's not that they think they aren't attractive enough, it's because life is short and meeting "the right one" takes a lot of time, commitment and work even for an outgoing person. And then you have to factor in time on earth, which is short. I'm saying people get scared that they will be alone for life because let's face it, the older we get, the more people settle down into marriage which means less options for the single people that are left. I think many people get to the point where they realize they need to grab on to any chance at getting married with someone who is "good enough" like a life raft, because this could be their last chance. They realize a constant, trustworthy, acceptable partner for sex and companionship is something they think they need in life because of ego. Many people claim they are in love so it gives them an excuse to have sex and companionship for themselves and so other people think they are "normal." These people are insecure and can't think for themselves. My problem is they aren't waiting for love, they are hunting for companionship and sex out of fear that they never will get a better shot at companionship and sex. They are settling out of desperation, which is not love.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Kon said:


> There are also non-SAD personality features that play as an important, if not more important role, in getting a mate.


Yes, but a lot of these qualities don't seem to matter because women never get to know me. I realize it's my fault for being shy and I'm sure that makes it harder to talk to me, but it seems like talking is the most important thing. I mean I see these guys who are rude and vulgar but they talk so they get all these women. These guys lie, cheat, and some of them even steal (A couple of my friends) yet they have all these women talking to them because they are more socially confident than me. I don't like how it doesn't matter that I'm an honest, trustworthy, respectful guy and don't get noticed and then my friend comes in and starts blabbing away about how his day went and the women just float to him.

It's not women's fault that this happens, I mean if I was a woman I'd be doing the same thing, doing what is more comfortable for me and going with the guy that is easier to talk to. So women, no I'm not blaming you at all. I'm just whining I guess. I'm not whining about not having a girlfriend, I'm whining that I have failed to just have conversations with women throughout life.
It's all about social confidence if you are a guy. If you don't have that, your other good traits don't get you anywhere with women because they have other guys to talk to easier that are more confident socially. That's been the story of my life around women for the most part.


----------



## stranger25

peach said:


> Your head is full of nonsense. There is nothing more conformist than claiming to be a "free thinker," especially when you continue to ignore everything the females in this thread have said to debunk your negative stereotyping of what women seek in mates. For all of your whining about women having all of the power and being a bunch of gold-digging leeches only interested in looks and money, you haven't shown an ounce of respect to women in general, and don't seem all that interested in actually conversing with a female at all. Why not just get together with your True Forced Loneliness pals and just bone each other and get it over with? Maybe you'll be happier that way.


I'm not associated with "true forced loneliness". I didn't even know what it was until I watched those videos. Have you seen my past posts? Lots of good observations. I have done alot of researching on feminism, and the dating game though.


----------



## ambergris

IcemanKilmer said:


> I don't believe this. There must be more to the story than this.


lol, you just proved my point about not being listened to better than I could.

It would be cool if you could scroll up a bit and try reading secretlyshecries's post about people coming here seeking acceptance and finding their concerns dismissed and disregarded? I'm kind of past caring whether anyone believes me or not, but not everyone will have reached that point yet.


----------



## Kon

IcemanKilmer said:


> I don't like how it doesn't matter that I'm an honest, trustworthy, respectful guy and don't get noticed and then my friend comes in and starts blabbing away about how his day went and the women just float to him.
> 
> It's all about social confidence if you are a guy. If you don't have that, your other good traits don't get you anywhere with women because they have other guys to talk to easier that are more confident socially. That's been the story of my life around women for the most part.


This is going to sound like I'm bragging but what the hell:

I wasn't confident at all. I used alcohol to get me through the initial meetings though. I didn't even have many good personality traits. I wasn't romantic, I wasn't experienced in bed, I didn't know much about music/fashion/arts/politics, I trembled when talking and was scared of women and yet I always had some girl that was interested. Most of my conversations revolved around calf sizes, sex/penis size and strength training.

Despite this, at one time in my early 20s, I was seeing 3 girls at the same time. I even went to a party with 2 of them at the same time until one dumped beer over the other's head. I rejected many other women if they were interested in just immediate sex because I was scared I didn't know what I was doing or that I might catch some disease. I also had a few girls jump on me and kiss/french kiss me while I was passed out on the couch at some parties.

But I was always polite to girls and hung around with mostly extroverts/socially outgoing guys/relatives. The only positives I had was I had a thin, muscular build and was good in school (rote memorization). I never once made a first move on a girl, at this time. They always came after me or told my friends/relatives they were interested and they set me up. My conversation with girls revolved around sex because I wanted to know more about it. So my SAD/Introversion didn't seem to limit my girl opportunties all that much.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

mooncake said:


> I'm not arguing about the proportion of males in relationships compared to females. I'm just taking issue with the woman-bashing that goes on in these types of threads by a few select posters and the overwhelming negativity that is constantly displayed. The posts made by males in relationships appear to more or less always go *completely* ignored. It's not realistic to completely bypass such posts when you're attempting to make sweeping statements about how no socially anxious male will ever be desirable to a woman.


I didn't say socially anxious males are never desirable to women. I said many socially anxious males are not desirable to women. There are many shy men in relationships and that talk to women, I understand that. But the truth is that it's hardest for shy men to even talk to women as friends because we are statistically by ourselves more often because of gender roles. Most women don't have to talk to me, so they don't talk to me. It's nobody's fault really, it's the way society has been functioning for centuries. Gilmartin has proven that more shy men suffer from not being talked to by the opposite sex than shy women suffer from not being talked to by the opposite sex. My main complaint isn't even really so much that we struggle to get g/fs, my complaint is more that we struggle to even converse with women more than shy women struggle to talk with men because men approach shy women more because of gender roles than women approach shy men. It is a numbers game, and there is a pretty big difference between shy women and shy men with how much they get to communicate with the opposite sex. Shy men are alone more percentage-wise and it's by a lot.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Kon said:


> This is going to sound like I'm bragging but what the hell:
> 
> I wasn't confident at all. I used alcohol to get me through the initial meetings though. I didn't even have many good personality traits. I wasn't romantic, I wasn't experienced in bed, I didn't know much about music/fashion/arts/politics, I trembled when talking and was scared of women and yet I always had some girl that was interested. Most of my conversations revolved around calf sizes, sex/penis size and strength training.
> 
> Despite this, at one time in my early 20s, I was seeing 3 girls at the same time. I even went to a party with 2 of them at the same time until one dumped beer over the other's head. I rejected many other women if they were interested in just immediate sex because I was scared I didn't know what I was doing or that I might catch some disease. I also had a few girls jump on me and kiss/french kiss me while I was passed out on the couch at some parties.
> 
> But I was always polite to girls and hung around with mostly extroverts/socially outgoing guys/relatives. The only positives I had was I had a thin, muscular build and was good in school (rote memorization). I never once made a first move on a girl, at this time. They always came after me or told my friends/relatives they were interested and they set me up. My conversation with girls revolved around sex because I wanted to know more about it. So my SAD/Introversion didn't seem to limit my girl opportunties all that much.


This makes me feel even worse. So I'm just the weaker shy guy that never gets women around him?


----------



## anomalous

Kon said:


> This is going to sound like I'm bragging but what the hell:
> 
> I wasn't confident at all. I used alcohol to get me through the initial meetings though. I didn't even have many good personality traits. I wasn't romantic, I wasn't experienced in bed, I didn't know much about music/fashion/arts/politics, I trembled when talking and was scared of women and yet I always had some girl that was interested. Most of my conversations revolved around calf sizes, sex/penis size and strength training.
> 
> Despite this, at one time in my early 20s, I was seeing 3 girls at the same time. I even went to a party with 2 of them at the same time until one dumped beer over the other's head. I rejected many other women if they were interested in just immediate sex because I was scared I didn't know what I was doing or that I might catch some disease. I also had a few girls jump on me and kiss/french kiss me while I was passed out on the couch at some parties.
> 
> But I was always polite to girls and hung around with mostly extroverts/socially outgoing guys/relatives. The only positives I had was I had a thin, muscular build and was good in school (rote memorization). I never once made a first move on a girl, at this time. They always came after me or told my friends/relatives they were interested and they set me up. My conversation with girls revolved around sex because I wanted to know more about it. So my SAD/Introversion didn't seem to limit my girl opportunties all that much.


Your willingness to party and get sh!tfaced is probably a big factor. I don't know many guys who are into that lifestyle and can't get girls.

Clearly, though, a lot of men on SAS cannot even get to the point of going to parties due to their disorder. When you're in your teens or 20s, this is a _massive_ hindrance, in general.

In fact, in my personal experience, there's a very strong correlation between whether a guy parties/drinks frequently and his relationship status.

I suspect you must be fairly good-looking too, though, if you had a bunch of girls going out of their way to get your attention. No doubt, that's a significant factor, and one that a lot of people incorrectly think isn't important for men.


----------



## Harpuia

I was pretty bitter and broken from previous rejection when my current girlfriend just suddenly popped up in the chatroom here. It was weird. We hit it off real well.

After so many years trying, the girl literally just appeared out of nowhere. Go figure.


----------



## Godless1

secretlyshecries said:


> I'm just sick of guys talking like they're experienced both sides, male and female, because that is the only way you'd _truly _be able to compare the two-- if you had lived both of them. But you haven't. You haven't been me, you haven't been a girl. So how dare you make as though you know what it's like just because you look around at so many pretty girls with boyfriends. Where does this 'every single girl is pretty and guys will do anything for her' belief come from?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is pretty hypocritical. You are claiming we have no right to comment on the experiences of women, but simultaneously, you are implying that you have it just as bad as us. By your logic, what right do you have to comment on our plight. All any of us can do, men or women, is reach conclusions based on the world in which we live, and our experiences in it. It's true that, as a man, I will never be able to experience life as a women, well, not without expensive therapy. However, that doesn't mean I can't have opinions about both sexes, or about basic social trends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't think being quiet is necessarily seen as somehow 'cute' and/or mysterious (in an attractive way) by others as everyone seems to think it is. _Some _might find those qualities desirable but there are just as many people who might wonder 'why the **** I'm so quiet' and treat me like a freak for it. Amazing, I know, that it is not thought of as an endearing quality by all who meet me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, this is obviously quite the contentious issue. All I'm saying is that unassertive men face more challenges in the dating world than unassertive women. I'm certainly not implying that it is a walk in the park for these women. As a rule, not as an absolute, women are attracted to strong confident men. This simply a result of thousands of years of evolution, as well as societal influences. Men, on the other hand, have no inherent or learned reasons to be attracted to these types of women. One could even argue that a shy or soft-spoken women would be at an evolutionary advantage, because a man could easily see her as someone he could protect.
> 
> The damsel in distress idea is a really great example of this. As you know, in these scenarios a helpless woman is in some dire predicament and the man must rescue her. It's almost impossible to imagine a scenario in which these roles are reversed. Some weak helpless man being saved by a strong assertive women. Hmm... Again nothing I am saying is in absolute, but that doesn't mean that these notions should just be dismissed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing that baffles me is the fact that so many guys on this forum complain about girls who make posts about their boyfriends/husbands, and say they never see any males do the same-- I've seen _plenty _of posts about girlfriends and wives. In this thread alone there were a few posts from guys saying they date just fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look back at the first several pages of this thread, it isn't close. I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here in relationships, and plenty of single ladies, but as far as this thread is concerned, the data is heavily skewed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think what bothers me the most about this whole thing is the fact that so many of us have lived our lives hoping someone will understand that SA _does _exist for us, that it's not just extreme shyness or anything of the sort, and that it is a real problem for us in our day-to-day lives. We all come on this forum and tell each other we understand because we all have the same problem, but then some people decide, 'hang on, no we don't, _my_ problem is worse than yours. In fact, you hardly _have _a problem.' It hurts. Here I was thinking we were all in this together but apparently some people just have to 'win' at everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Please don't think my aim is, or ever was, to downplay anyone's struggles with SA. *Anxiety is a dreadful curse to live with, and I have nothing but sympathy, empathy, and compassion for anyone stricken with this disorder. I certainly would never view this as some sort of twisted competition to see who has the worst problems. Anxiety is wide-ranging problem that affects nearly every aspect of our lives. All anyone ever suggested is that in one small area of life, the dating world, men with SA face more obstacles than women. Women certainly face more obstacles in other aspects of life, like the corporate world, than men.
Click to expand...


----------



## tranquildream

cheekypanda said:


> Don't laugh but... I met my current bf a few years ago on WoW. :blush We live together now, so it worked out for the both of us.


I met my last boyfriend on wow(he's now just a friend though..)!! and then we realized he was friends with my sister and had went to the same high school and knew who I was! so it was a crazy coincidence... I'm glad you could make it work though! People always thought it was silly how we met, but I was proud of it lol.


----------



## kamrynsays

I'm good looking and I attract guys. Unfortunately alot of girls disliked me and caused even more kids to hate me so it's hard to get a decent guy. It's like the only way to get a 'good' bf is by beig cool or whatnot. I can easily pass as popular, I have been before, but I don't know where to start despite my ****ups in the past.
Looking at majority of the replies here, most people meet online, parties, groups and even concerts. I really like this thread, kudos to who made it, hopefully I can find a cute guy.
Does anyone know how I can find a guy online or something if I'm only 17?


----------



## slightlyawkward

I met my boyfriend on an online dating site (OKcupid). I originally joined to take the time-wasting little quizzes...And ended up finding him. Good deal.


----------



## stranger25

^We know. We know...



joinmartin said:


> So, this experiment would involve acting in prejudice against a picture of someone by deciding that, because a majority of people on here deemed that person to be unattractive, they somehow were? What would be the point of such an experiment? Sounds dodgy to me.


maybe because it will prove all you're defenses wrong? :idea


----------



## d93

kamrynsays said:


> I'm good looking and I attract guys. Unfortunately alot of girls disliked me and caused even more kids to hate me so it's hard to get a decent guy. It's like the only way to get a 'good' bf is by beig cool or whatnot. I can easily pass as popular, I have been before, but I don't know where to start despite my ****ups in the past.
> Looking at majority of the replies here, most people meet online, parties, groups and even concerts. I really like this thread, kudos to who made it, hopefully I can find a cute guy.
> Does anyone know how I can find a guy online or something if I'm only 17?


I'm 17 too.


----------



## Kon

joinmartin said:


> There's even scientific research now to suggest that what women find attractive may vary more than what men find attractive which would suggest that, in the dating game, men may have it easier. What does that say to the defences of your belief system?


I agree. There's quite a bit of research about this and I tend to agree with it. Guys can get away with being less attractive as long as they have other stuff like personality, security (money, work), etc. If a girl isn't very attractive, she will have a much harder time making up for it with personality, money, etc. because on average guys seem to be more attracted to a woman's looks than other stuff. Here's an interesting article on a related topic.

*Why Beautiful Women Marry Less Attractive Men*

"Women seeking a lifelong mate might do well to choose the guy a notch below them in the looks category. New research reveals couples in which the wife is better looking than her husband are more positive and supportive than other match-ups. The reason, researchers suspect, is that men place great value on beauty, whereas women are more interested in having a supportive husband.

The husband who's less physically attractive than his wife is getting something more than maybe he can expect to get," the researcher told LiveScience. "He's getting something better than he's providing at that level. So he's going to work hard to maintain that relationship."

http://www.livescience.com/7483-beautiful-women-marry-attractive-men.html

Having said that though, I'm guessing that this also means if you're an attractive guy, that may not be enough to get you to the promised land because women care more about other stuff. If you're a very attractive woman, your personality will likely be less important. Guys will be all over you.


----------



## KennethJones

slightlyawkward said:


> I met my boyfriend on an online dating site (OKcupid). I originally joined to take the time-wasting little quizzes...And ended up finding him. Good deal.


LOL I think this just sums up the general female experience in regards to dating.

You just accidentally fell into a relationship. Only a woman or an alpha-male can have that kind of experience.


----------



## mooncake

KennethJones said:


> LOL I think this just sums up the general female experience in regards to dating.
> 
> You just accidentally fell into a relationship. Only a woman or an alpha-male can have that kind of experience.


And I think this just about sums up the general experience felt by myself, probably most of the women of this board, and those males such as joinmartin who thankfully are actually able to think rationally about such topics, when reading posts such as yours: :doh

I've seen posts on this forum from males about finding romance when they least expected it, posts from females about having asked men out, and posts from men who have been asked out by females. What does that say about your little theory?

I could write more, but what's the point, really? Most of you seem set in wallowing in your self-pity and bitterness for the rest of your lives. Good luck indeed is what you'll need if you're hoping to find a girlfriend with that kind of attitude.


----------



## stranger25

It's NOT bitterness. 

It's NOT negativity. 

It's NOT self pity.

It's having a realistic view of how things are. Which just so happens to be on the negative side. It's reality. Not our fault. Free from PC. Free from what society tells us. Free from what PUA, feminists, and New Age nuts try to brainwash us with.


----------



## CourtneyB

> The husband who's less physically attractive than his wife is getting something more than maybe he can expect to get," the researcher told LiveScience. *"He's getting something better than he's providing at that level. So he's going to work hard to maintain that relationship.*


Bingo. He's knows he's got a hot girlfriend and that he is a lucky SOB to have her so he is going to work harder to keep her than a guy who is better looking and has more options.


----------



## ctrlaltdelete

It's like, social conditioning, man. Externalize your Inner Game™ and fine-tune your Reticular Activating System to nimbus status.


----------



## Wedge

When I was in high school I was fairly good looking so I never had too much of an issue attracting girls. The problem was the quality, I lacked any social scene and was always the outsider. So while decent looking, good at art, strong (I lifted weights a lot) I was never part of a group. All the friend clicks shaped what parties you went to or who you were spending time with in your post school hours. I had none, so only girls that wanted to screw me ever seemed to be the ones that I ran into. Of course we would date, but there was nothing ever there. So after X amount of time, some awesome dude with a scene would show up and the girl would split.Now as I get older my looks aren't there so the little I had going for me has gone out the window.


----------



## LostPancake

I was sitting on a couch in the hallway of the English department building, when this woman came up to me and asked if I wanted to sign the petition for a grad student union. I said okay, and she explained about it. Then as she was leaving she was like I hope this doesn't sound too forward, but can I give you my number? 

By that age (34) I was able to hide my anxiety pretty well, and just faked being confident around people, which seemed to be attractive to some women. But inside I was a mess. I gave up doing that because it was like false advertising, and I didn't want to end up in another relationship like that - it only lasted a couple of months. She was an extrovert with a lot of friends and I couldn't deal with that. 

I know that people with issues get into relationships all the time, but insecurity is quite a relationship killer, unless you have some very attractive quality to make up for it. I couldn't even enjoy being in a relationship for that reason. 

Anyway, I should have done more therapy when I was younger. I kick myself now for not doing more.


----------



## JupiterStarr

I wish I knew. Some people are just lucky.


----------



## Duane

I met my first g/f in high school biology.
Second in martial arts class.
Third at a party in college. 
Last g/f at work. (Big mistake)


----------



## Ivan AG

stranger25 said:


> It's NOT bitterness.
> 
> It's NOT negativity.
> 
> It's NOT self pity.
> 
> It's having a realistic view of how things are. Which just so happens to be on the negative side. It's reality. Not our fault. Free from PC. Free from what society tells us. Free from what PUA, feminists, and New Age nuts try to brainwash us with.


Let me guess.

Anyone who doesn't have the same real life experiences as you (joinmartin) is going to get a nice PC or maybe "pseudo-optimist" label slapped on him, right?

My reality is also different from the stuff you preach on here, so you might just start attacking me as well, while you're at it.

I've never had to "settle" for anyone, although your claims would have me do otherwise.


----------



## Kennnie

who wants to be my girlfriend?


----------



## papaSmurf

pokerisfun said:


> In one of my classes a girl sat beside me and I didn't even look at her. I have no idea what she looked like, because I was too nervous to even turn my head in the direction she was sitting.


^Hahaha, I've done that too! I don't know that I ever managed it for an entire semester though, so strong work on your part.

I wish I had a good answer to your question Poker, but so far I have gotten around this problem by having people ask me out. That said, I imagine the reason these people ever got the urge to ask me out in the first place had something to do with my efforts to consistently put myself in socially uncomfortable situations. It's in no way a fail-proof tactic, but getting out of your safe zone as often as possible certainly can't hurt.


----------



## Crystalline

Most of the guys I dated or ended up being with were acquaintances through friends, etc...they usually did the approaching, though I did ask two out before.


----------



## Stilla

I've never had a real boyfriend. This thread is depressing :lol


----------



## Milco

Stilla said:


> I've never had a real boyfriend. This thread is depressing :lol


Imaginary ones are alright as well.
Problem is just when the imaginary one starts to pull away and you suspect them of cheating, but they just say you're just imagining things, and the whole thing goes meta and collapses in on itself :um

All in due time though, Miss Stilla 
Wait.. that comes off completely wrong :lol


----------



## stranger25

mooncake said:


> And I think this just about sums up the general experience felt by myself, probably most of the women of this board, and those males such as joinmartin who thankfully are actually able to think rationally about such topics, when reading posts such as yours: :doh
> 
> I've seen posts on this forum from males about finding romance when they least expected it, posts from females about having asked men out, and posts from men who have been asked out by females. What does that say about your little theory?
> 
> I could write more, but what's the point, really? Most of you seem set in wallowing in your self-pity and bitterness for the rest of your lives. Good luck indeed is what you'll need if you're hoping to find a girlfriend with that kind of attitude.


----------



## BetaBoy90

Kennnie said:


> who wants to be my girlfriend?


I'd like to know as well so I can tell her to exit the country immediately!


----------



## stranger25

joinmartin said:


> Stranger25, the lunatics from True Forced Loneliness are in no way, shape or form representative of men in society or evidence of anything. There's another clip on Youtube of this guy you keep posting videos of talking about how he hates when women do something and his actual point of reference is the FICTIONAL TV show Sex And The City. He complains women do this thing and then uses an episode of Sex And The City as an example. Which, if you think about it, is pretty apt because all the stuff True Forced Loneliness thinks is based on fiction in the first place.
> 
> As is quoted on Youtube and other areas of the net. the people in True Forced Loneliness are not lonely, unloved people reaching out. They are women haters plain and simple. Women haters who are sex deprived and arrogant enough to think they are somehow entitled to sex despite being horrific in terms of personality. As I discovered when I saw one video of a True Forced loneliness person talking about how he enjoyed seeing some woman getting killed.
> 
> The evidence of Hitler is not evidence of how the Jews really were. The evidence of True Forced Loneliness similarly bares absolutely no reflection whatsoever of how things really are in the world.


He's not part of the TFL stuff either anymore lol.


----------



## peach

stranger25 said:


>


Still feeling sorry for yourself? Still listening to these misogynistic douchebags on Youtube who are part of the True Forced Loneliness crowd? You are not the same as those of us who are isolated and alone because we suffer from SA. Your issue is that you have nothing to offer any woman because you have such an obvious lack of respect for females, all but calling us a bunch of self-absorbed leeches who only care about looks and money. Instead of owning up to your own shortcomings and working to change your attitude, you sit there and point your figure at women and society and blame everyone but yourself. Until you man up, why should any woman give you the time of day?


----------



## stranger25

You have no idea what my life is like or has been like for the past few years. I've been through hell and back. The loneliness I go through is WAY more worse then what you claim to be going through, seeing as you are married, and have a job. For me, it's like the ship has set sail. So no more time left to get a social life. I'm not able to get a job, which means no fun with the females for me (if ever).


----------



## Ivan AG

To stranger25:


----------



## peach

stranger25 said:


> You have no idea what my life is like or has been like for the past few years. I've been through hell and back.


Everyone's got a sob story; that doesn't give you an excuse to rag on half the world's population and not get called on it. You quote these losers who hate women just so you can feel vindicated that your lack of a love life is somehow not your own fault. I say again, you're not like those who suffer from SA and are paralyzed with fear of rejection, and this douche you keep watching on Youtube is nothing like the unfortunate people (men AND women) who have not been able to find love because of their mental/emotional disorders.


----------



## stranger25

peach said:


> who have not been able to find love because of their mental/emotional disorders.


and I'm one of them, and no, I don't believe it's my fault.


----------



## odd_one_out

In the 2nd video, the guy says, "And this is how you women all are", just before he really gets ranting. It's a pile of garbage you're swallowing. Any messages within are engulfed by the putrid toxic waste and outright falsehood. All critical thought is thrown out of the window, into the sea, and swallowed and **** out by the inhabitants. There are consequences for living this way. It consumes a person.


----------



## BetaBoy90

My natural instincts kicked in telling me my looks are declining, my education is next to none and my social status is non-existant. It was only natural that I mindlessly searched for any woman that would want to be with me as time was clearly running out.... Didn't find anyone though..... I can't even seem to find a good place to buy rope


----------



## BetaBoy90

stranger25 said:


> Enough with the female success stories. How about some male ones. Not "limited" to the internet and forums either. But in the real world.


The post you responded to was a success story for a female and male, who both were on this website and met. Damnit, why did I get caught up in this ****.


----------



## Wedge

Ivan AG said:


> To stranger25:


Wait? How did that disprove anything? I've never heard of this TFL before reading this thread. But I don't see how this video disproved any of the points made about the natural advantage women have over men because of biology. 
Men have high sex drives which make us constantly want to mate and seek out females. We have to compete for the attention and affection of our potential mates against that of other suiters. Men seek out women for sex (as the basic drive). Women then pick and choose among prospective mates. The fact is if you are a male with SA this type of emphasis on Competition and social function makes you pretty much S.O.L.


----------



## stranger25

Some of the old videos are funny. That guy was being over dramatical though you're right.


----------



## Ivan AG

Wedge said:


> Wait? How did that disprove anything? I've never heard of this TFL before reading this thread. But I don't see how this video disproved any of the points made about the natural advantage women have over men because of biology.
> Men have high sex drives which make us constantly want to mate and seek out females. We have to compete for the attention and affection of our potential mates against that of other suiters. Men seek out women for sex (as the basic drive). Women then pick and choose among prospective mates. The fact is if you are a male with SA this type of emphasis on Competition and social function makes you pretty much S.O.L.


The man in the video makes no reference to EP studies as far as I can tell, nor does he need to.

He seeks to challenge the belief of some men that you have to be absolutely perfect in every way in order to have a relationship with a woman, e.g. looking like Brad Pitt or having the physique of Arnie back in the day.

Now if we pin down relationships purely on biological drives and instinct where actual preference (men's and women's) is ignored, then it seems like we're not looking at the bigger picture. This leads back to the belief that men are forced to "settle" for anyone they can find, while women just have to sit around and look pretty.

My personal experiences as well as some other guys on here says otherwise.


----------



## peach

stranger25 said:


> and I'm one of them, and no, I don't believe it's my fault.


Oh, I think it is. It's one thing to desire close, meaningful relationships, romantic or otherwise, and not being able to fulfill this desire due to being stifled by fear and being socially inept. It's a completely different thing to have such a bitter attitude because of your own streak of striking out and blame everybody else for your problems, declaring all women to be biologically inclined to be soulless louses whose only ambition in life is to latch on and use the richest, most good-looking men they can find. What century do you live in to think that women are only concerned with their own best self-interests, such as money, looks, and the best genes to pass on to their offspring. The biggest irony here is that your main concern that you have voiced has *not* even been about relationships at all, but getting laid! So who is the real user around here? Still think it's society's fault that you're alone? Have you ever even thought about taking a look at yourself?


----------



## stranger25

peach said:


> Oh, I think it is. It's one thing to desire close, meaningful relationships, romantic or otherwise, and not being to fulfill this desire due to being stifled by fear and being socially inept. It's a completely different thing to have such a bitter attitude because of your own streak of striking out and blame everybody else for your problems, declaring all women to be biologically inclined to be soulless louses whose only ambition in life is to latch on and use the richest, most good-looking men they can find. What century do you live in to think that women are only concerned with their own best self-interests, such as money, looks, and the best genes to pass on to their offspring. The biggest irony here is that your main concern that you have voiced has *not* even been about relationships at all, but getting laid! So who is the real user around here? Still think it's society's fault that you're alone? Have you ever even thought about taking a look at yourself?


not only "getting laid" but an actual relationship


----------



## slightlyawkward

stranger25 said:


> ^We know. We know...


Why is this directed at me? I'm confused...
And my statement that I just sort of "fell into" a relationship was exaggerated. It took months of searching online and a lot of bad dates.


----------



## ambergris

While a surprising number of women do enter into relationships with misogynists, it is generally a good idea to keep your hatred of women under wraps until you are established in a relationship, as it tends to be considered something of a turn-off. 

If you have given up on being in a relationship entirely, it is still a good idea to keep your hatred of women to yourself, in order to avoid coming over as a douche.


----------



## krista91

ambergris said:


> While a surprising number of women do enter into relationships with misogynists, it is generally a good idea to keep your hatred of women under wraps until you are established in a relationship, as it tends to be considered something of a turn-off.
> 
> If you have given up on being in a relationship entirely, it is still a good idea to keep your hatred of women to yourself, in order to avoid coming over as a douche.


thisss


----------



## stranger25

ambergris said:


> While a surprising number of women do enter into relationships with misogynists, it is generally a good idea to keep your hatred of women under wraps until you are established in a relationship, as it tends to be considered something of a turn-off.
> 
> If you have given up on being in a relationship entirely, it is still a good idea to keep your hatred of women to yourself, in order to avoid coming over as a douche.


----------



## LostPancake

stranger25, don't listen to those people. They look perfectly normal - they look like they could be married. They obviously have some issues getting along with women, but seem to have given up on fixing whatever problems they have and decided to just put the blame elsewhere. 

When I was your age, my social phobia had gotten to where I could hardly leave my apartment, and when I did I felt like everyone could see what a horrible deformed loser I was - I felt like I was singled out on stage in a spotlight and everyone hated me. So of course getting along with women was out of the question - I thought I was destined to die alone, and the thought was utterly depressing - I wanted nothing more than to be in a relationship, but it seemed impossibly out of reach. Whenever I got rejected I just wanted to kill myself. 

But after a couple of years of therapy, including a year of CBT twice a week and meds (prozac), I had gotten a job, and an apartment, and someone at work started flirting with me, and I was able to flirt back, and we ended up in a relationship. It was completely based on lust, but that was okay. I wasn't even looking for a relationship - I think it was just that I felt better about myself that she found attractive. 

That's the direction you should go in - do CBT. Listening to those people is just going to make your life worse. It might feel good to put the blame elsewhere in the short term, but it's giving up your own power to make your life better.


----------



## FadeToOne

joinmartin said:


> The funniest thing about that video is in the comments underneath. Obviously, the bigots were going to find this video and, because it challenged their belief system and they had no answer to the challenge they utilise defence mechanism for the belief system number two: attempt to rubbish the counter perspective.
> 
> And so, you get this gem:
> 
> " No it isn't bull****, I have been in﻿ so many social situations where women would pick the good looking guy, and would completely ignore the average guy, and it had nothing to do with personality/or charisma. Women (not all of them), are LOOKIST bigots, learn to deal with that fact."
> 
> Learn to deal with that fact? This guy has been in a bar or somewhere, seen this guy getting some attention from girls, decided this guy is "good looking" and then decided that the girls are only into this guy because he is good looking. And then he generalises to come up with a theory that most women are lookist bigots and then stamps his feet a lot trying to get people to believe in a fact he just made up.


dude while I agree with the idea that not all people from whatever group possess whatever faults that group is generalized to have, it is absurd to suggest that the dating game is not superficial. Yes there are guys and girls out there that are decent people, but the majority, and in some cases the majority can seem like everyone, are indeed shallow and superficial. Like, that's how society works. If it didn't, the world wouldn't be as it is.

It would be like arguing that most CEOs don't really worship money, or that most politicians don't lie to get ahead. Yes there are some CEOs that are good people, there are some politicians that are honest people, and there are relationships that are indeed based on love - but those are the exception, and that's why they are so valued and cherished. They are rare, and not many people find them, and sometimes, especially when you have mental issues, it can seem like you might be the last person on the planet that will find that luck.

I really would like to live in the world you're living in where that isn't so, but alas, it is not possible.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Wedge said:


> Wait? How did that disprove anything? I've never heard of this TFL before reading this thread. But I don't see how this video disproved any of the points made about the natural advantage women have over men because of biology.
> Men have high sex drives which make us constantly want to mate and seek out females. We have to compete for the attention and affection of our potential mates against that of other suiters. Men seek out women for sex (as the basic drive). Women then pick and choose among prospective mates. The fact is if you are a male with SA this type of emphasis on Competition and social function makes you pretty much S.O.L.


This guy is exactly right, I couldn't have put it any better myself. I don't see how what Wedge is saying even gets debated, this is how human biology works and explains the much higher number of shy men who suffer from love-shyness compared to women. The problem in your last sentence is this isn't always true because there are SA men that get women. But what is true is that there are more SA men that don't get women than SA women that don't get men.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

joinmartin said:


> Men do not only seek out women for sex.


Hahahahaha. I'm sorry, that may be the funniest and most untrue thing I've seen on these forums. For many men, sex is the only reason they seek out women. When guys go to the club on Friday night they aren't going there so they can talk about how a woman's day went, they eventually want to get her in the sack. As a fellow man, I know how incredibly shallow we can be. How you don't understand this, joinmartin, is beyond me. You need to wake up to reality, pal. Not all men are sex-hunters, but I'd go as far to say that most are.


----------



## Kon

IcemanKilmer said:


> Not all men are sex-hunters, but I'd go as far to say that most are.


That's probably true but not in my case. I was actually very scared of women when I was younger even though I liked them. I went out to a club and a girl asked me to go to her place for sex. She then did the splits on the dance floor in front of me and my friends. I got scared because I felt I was inexperienced and chickened out and gave some lame excuse. I thought that guys with SAD are naturally scared of women? Maybe it's a performance anxiety issue?


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Kon said:


> That's probably true but not in my case. I was actually very scared of women when I was younger even though I liked them. I went out to a club and a girl asked me to go to her place for sex. She then did the splits on the dance floor in front of me and my friends. I got scared because I felt I was inexperienced and chickened out and gave some lame excuse. I thought that guys with SAD are naturally scared of women? Maybe it's a performance anxiety issue?


Just because a guy is afraid of sex, doesn't mean he doesn't want to have it. I guarantee that deep down you wanted to have sex, heck that's a big reason you were on that dance floor in the first place. I remember you saying earlier that you had sex with multiple women, and I'm sure you weren't saying no when that happened. If you were so against fornicating, you wouldn't have had sex with those women.


----------



## Lifetimer

pokerisfun said:


> For example when I got my first job, 3 girls asked me out in the first month. After that I was really nervous to go to work (more than normal), and as stupid as it sounds, I tried to avoid all of them as much as possible. Thats why i'm worried my sa around girls is so bad that no matter what, I might not be able to have a girlfriend.


Pokerisfun, you must be some sort of a stud to have so many girls asking YOU out instead of you having to ask THEM out! I've never had ANY girl ask me out. I just have always assumed that women always waited for a guy to ask them out and that they would never consider asking a guy out.

I'm not sure how I'd react if by some miracle that ever happened to me! lol.


----------



## Perfectionist

Lifetimer said:


> I'm not sure how I'd react if by some miracle that ever happened to me! lol.


I asked a guy out. His reaction was quite seriously running away from me.

As to how most people get them, I'm not too sure. I can't even imagine dating someone I don't know very well. I guess lots of people are okay with getting to know someone as you date them. And maybe their SA doesn't bother them in that area of their life.


----------



## stranger25

LostPancake said:


> stranger25, don't listen to those people. They look perfectly normal - they look like they could be married. They obviously have some issues getting along with women, but seem to have given up on fixing whatever problems they have and decided to just put the blame elsewhere.
> 
> When I was your age, my social phobia had gotten to where I could hardly leave my apartment, and when I did I felt like everyone could see what a horrible deformed loser I was - I felt like I was singled out on stage in a spotlight and everyone hated me. So of course getting along with women was out of the question - I thought I was destined to die alone, and the thought was utterly depressing - I wanted nothing more than to be in a relationship, but it seemed impossibly out of reach. Whenever I got rejected I just wanted to kill myself.
> 
> But after a couple of years of therapy, including a year of CBT twice a week and meds (prozac), I had gotten a job, and an apartment, and someone at work started flirting with me, and I was able to flirt back, and we ended up in a relationship. It was completely based on lust, but that was okay. I wasn't even looking for a relationship - I think it was just that I felt better about myself that she found attractive.
> 
> That's the direction you should go in - do CBT. Listening to those people is just going to make your life worse. It might feel good to put the blame elsewhere in the short term, but it's giving up your own power to make your life better.


Yeah, i can always check into something like that


----------



## TenYears

*To Stranger, Iceman & anyone else willing to read this wall of text...*

This is kind of an embarassing story, well to a lot of guys it might be, but I think it's worth telling.

I have what I'm starting to realize is a pretty serious self-esteem issue--I beat myself up a lot. I self-harm. I always used to think the reason I could never, ever get a date, was me...and well, there's probably some truth to that, but it got to the point of me completely shutting down, and blaming everyone else...blaming the social setting, the social "rules" I was supposed to follow (I'm defective, I can't fit in), sometime it was easier to blame women...but I could never hang onto that for very long, because I always, always knew I blamed myself, because I realized it wasn't society, it wasn't women, it was me. I believed it was me (and still do) because I can't believe that the rest of the world can be wrong, and I can be right. It's me. It has to be.

I was always, always, always the only guy left at the clubs at closing time walking out by myself when I was at university. That's how I saw it. The thing is, the rules didn't change when I walked into a club, just for me. Me & my friends walked into the same club, with the same women in them, at the same time. There wasn't a ray of light that shined down on these guys thru the f****** ceiling, angels didn't weep when they walked into the club, the music didn't stop, and women didn't stop in mid-conversation to run over to my friends & start up conversations. Only to leave me in a dark corner to get drunk by myself the rest of the night.

I think a lot of the issues I had were in my head. I know they were.

*Let me preface this next paragraph by saying I do not look like a Greek God, and I have the charm & social skills of someone with very severe, crippling SA.* *And yeah, I'm writing this risking that Martin will probably pick apart what I'm saying line by line, word by word, and over-analyze it (no offense Martin, your advice is right-on, and welcome. Usually.)*

I worked at a convenience store with a very attractive woman, for several years during this same time, at university. We'd close the store together a lot (it was safer to have two of us because it was usually midnight). We would talk a little, flirt a little, goof off....because, well, it got boring as hell. There would be _hours _at a time with no customers. I always thought she was really, really hot. But I wouldn't even allow myself the chance to even go there. We goofed off a lot at work, but I was so sure I would be shot down if I ever told her how I felt, I couldn't even really make eye contact with her. Even asking her to go clubbing with a group of my friends was out of the question.

*Here's the funny, & kind of embarrassing part*

Looking back, she was dropping hints left & right, she was really, really coming onto me, but I was too blind, too caught up in my own feelings of worthlessness, to even notice. I know this because one night I couldn't get a ride (I had car trouble) and we shared a cab home. I had to lock up so she waited for me in the cab. The cab driver was headed toward my dorm, & I told him to "take a left", but he kept going. I was, like, "hey man you missed my turn", and he looked back at me, grinning, with a condesending look, almost like he was pissed off at me & said, "no, I didn't". So we went to her place. She planned this out. I spent the night. After I got over the shock, which took about an entire hour lol, I realized what a complete dumb*** I was.

Sometimes I'm so blind with my own self-hate, I'm so wrapped up in my own anxiety, I miss opportunities to make friends, to make connections. She even had a 6-pack of beer in the fridge, waiting for me, because she knew I was kind of anxious, quiet, nervous, awkward...I think she thought it would help me relax a little. We drank & watched a movie on her bed in her apartment. We messed around, but didn't go all the way. It would've been too wierd after if we had, anyway. About a month later she introduced me to this other woman, who was a friend of hers. I've been married to this other woman for 11 years. We have 3 kids together.

Guys if you are mad at the world or mad at women, because you can't connect with women....it's not the world, and it's not the women. It's not necessarily you, either. Man, I would venture to guess that theres nothing "wrong" with most of the guys on this forum, it's just that we can be our own worst enemies. The way we justify & rationalize things is really, really f***** up, man. And my way of dealing with these things is really f***** up too, maybe worse than yours, I just internalize everything & blame myself.

It's hard to get over that. I know this because *I haven't gotten over it* It's just instead of blaming the world or women, I blame myself. I still blame myself. These days, I don't blame myself for not being able to strike up a conversation with a single woman at a club packed with 2,000 college students. I'm (way) older. The scene has just changed, I haven't changed. Now, I can't strike up a conversation with other parents at my kids games. It'd be really nice to have guy or girl friends sometimes, man. I have the same problems...it's me. It's not the fault of the college women in the clubs at my university. They're not following me around all through my life, making sure I get shot down at every turn. It's not a conspiracy theory. *IT'S ME.*

How can you be right, and the rest of the world be wrong, to justify your take on this? Can you really be so sure you're that smart? You're right, and it's just the rest of the world that's to blame for your problems?


----------



## peach

TenYears said:


> We drank & watched a movie on her bed in her apartment. We messed around, but didn't go all the way. It would've been too wierd after if we had, anyway. About a month later she introduced me to this other woman, who was a friend of hers. I've been married to this other woman for 11 years. We have 3 kids together.


Heh, I like your story. It's funny how life turns out sometimes.



> Guys if you are mad at the world or mad at women, because you can't connect with women....it's not the world, and it's not the women. It's not necessarily you, either. Man, I would venture to guess that theres nothing "wrong" with most of the guys on this forum, *it's just that we can be our own worst enemies*. The way we justify & rationalize things is really, really f***** up, man. And my way of dealing with these things is really f***** up too, maybe worse than yours, I just internalize everything & blame myself.


Quoted for truth.


----------



## FadeToOne

lol I'd like to see joinmartin taking a science exam.

"What is this? The Earth revolves around the sun? From who's view? That is just one perception of reality. If you were on Mars that would not be true. It's just an opinion. You can't tell me that's the correct answer. Have you ever rotated around the sun? And isn't the sun just an opinion anyway? Maybe there's a giant firefly creating all that light. How do you know if there's a "sun"? Have you been there? And it's your opinion that it's "hot". Maybe you need to change your worldview and realize that it's cold. It's all in your limited subjective perception."


----------



## watashi

I sort of had a boyfriend once, we dated for about a month (the longest I succeded at dating someone). I met him on a dating site and I was the one who wrote him first. Have to say waiting for people to write you doesn't always bring desirable results. Was probably the only time my own initiative got me that far. But he was very shy himself, so I didn't have to compete with 10 other girls. It didn't work out in the end, by the way. I still think dating sites are not the best place to meet people.


----------



## Norm

FadeToOne said:


> "What is this? The Earth revolves around the sun? From who's view? That is just one perception of reality. If you were on Mars that would not be true... Have you ever rotated around the sun? ... "


:haha



joinmartin said:


> Are you seriously saying that how you see the world is 100% exactly how it is and you've never, ever been wrong about anything you have perceived to be true?


Of course, you both have a point. Reality is both objective and subjective, and if you lock yourself into either extreme, it gets rediculous.

As *joinmartin* has rightly pointed out, we don't see "reality" but rather our maps of reality. But that's not to say there's no correlation between them whatsoever, and it doesn't follow that it's wise to make up our maps to look however we want them to. (jm, I'm not suggesting that you subscribe to this extreme position, although it sometimes appears that way) Of course we should constantly test our own beliefs and assumptions and attempt to make our internal maps align more closely with reality.

Funny post by *FadeToOne*, though, you gotta admit...

-


----------



## stranger25

FadeToOne said:


> lol I'd like to see joinmartin taking a science exam.
> 
> "What is this? The Earth revolves around the sun? From who's view? That is just one perception of reality. If you were on Mars that would not be true. It's just an opinion. You can't tell me that's the correct answer. Have you ever rotated around the sun? And isn't the sun just an opinion anyway? Maybe there's a giant firefly creating all that light. How do you know if there's a "sun"? Have you been there? And it's your opinion that it's "hot". Maybe you need to change your worldview and realize that it's cold. It's all in your limited subjective perception."


lol hahahahaha

the earth is round? says who? the earth isn't round. that's just what you think in your belief system!!!!!111 :idea


----------



## Milco

joinmartin, I'm not sure you're really acknowledging how things have been in your own life. We all generalise, we all make 'maps' and pictures to help us understand and navigate the world. That's not to say you should just accept the way you see the world though, at least not when it creates problems for yourself or for others.
Only when confronted with problems in our current understanding can we look for alternative ways to see things. If we do not do that however, we resign to the way things are, and change becomes almost impossible.

The way we see things and our attitudes towards do of course play a role in the outcome, but it's far from the only factor.
It's great that you have had those good experiences in your life and that you hardly feel anxiety anymore, but it pains me to see you apparently say people should just adopt your view and they would have the same success.
You can change your attitude to how you approach a situation, but to change your fundamental views and understanding, you need positive encouragement when you do try things differently. It's not something you just do, and it's not everytime you approach a situation even with the best of attitudes, that it is a success.

You say much of SA seems to come from looking to others for verification, but I wonder if you've really thought it through.
Who doesn't look to others for verification?
Sure, people with anxiety and confidence issues do it in a more apparent or perverse way, but is anybody really beyond doing so?
Is it possible you feel the way you do and have the confidence you do because you do have support structures around you that you can rely on?
That you have gotten the verification from others and now can have faith in yourself? That if you fall you can get up again oinw your own or with help from others?
People that have complete confidence in their own ability and an unquestionable self-love and sense of self, despite the responses they get from the outside world.. That's not exactly a good thing either.
To put it boldly, it's the kind of lack of empathy and response to the outside world that you'd find in psychopaths.
I don't believe you to be one. I just believe you're not fully acknowledging the support you have actually had to arrive at the position you have.


----------



## slightlyawkward

Kon said:


> That's probably true but not in my case. I was actually very scared of women when I was younger even though I liked them. I went out to a club and a girl asked me to go to her place for sex. She then did the splits on the dance floor in front of me and my friends. I got scared because I felt I was inexperienced and chickened out and gave some lame excuse. I thought that guys with SAD are naturally scared of women? Maybe it's a performance anxiety issue?


I'd be scared of a woman who randomly did splits on the dance floor after asking me to her place for sex. It's probably for the best that you didn't end up going...


----------



## stranger25

I'm not doggin' on ya man. But you really gotta wake up and see the truth.


----------



## slightlyawkward

joinmartin said:


> Says the guy whose philosophy on women has absolutely nothing to back it up. Yep. LOL. LOL. LOL.


I second this sentiment.


----------



## Kon

slightlyawkward said:


> I'd be scared of a woman who randomly did splits on the dance floor after asking me to her place for sex. It's probably for the best that you didn't end up going...


I had a cast on my leg so I wasn't dancing. I hardly ever dance. She said she was a gymnast and showed me the splits. Yep, I used to get scared if the girl was very aggressive, even if she wasn't aggressive for that matter. It takes some time for me to warm up to anyone.


----------



## slightlyawkward

Kon said:


> I had a cast on my leg so I wasn't dancing. I hardly ever dance. She said she was a gymnast and showed me the splits. Yep, I used to get scared if the girl was very aggressive, even if she wasn't aggressive for that matter. It takes some time for me to warm up to anyone.


I understand. It definitely takes me time to warm up to anyone, too. I was just saying that her behavior was kind of...Interesting, and not in a good way.


----------



## Ivan AG

Milco said:


> The way we see things and our attitudes towards do of course play a role in the outcome, but it's far from the only factor.


This statement really stuck out for me.

Why wouldn't it be the only factor?

You know the saying "It's not about what happens to you, but rather how you react to it"?

This statement has been 100% correct in my life so far. If I'm seeking some sort of approval or reaction from others in order to feel positive, then how can I possibly live a comfortable life?

Everything you feel would become attached to what others do and say.

If this makes me a psychopath then so be it.

At least I won't be letting others dictate how I feel.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

joinmartin said:


> You'd go so far as to say most men r like that because u r and obviously most men r somehow like u? Sounds like u want me to live up to what u think reality is not what it actually is. Note the word 'only' in what I said. Just because I reject your philosophy on men does not mean I don't understand reality. I know how shallow SOME men can be and r. But what I said remains true. Men do not only seek out women for sex. A lot of men r not so emotionally and mentally disturbed as to be entirely governed by their penis. If u r governed solely by your penis, I respect that. But guys make friends with girls, enjoy girls company and...well..when they seek out their mum, r they looking for sex then? Is this freuds dream come true?
> 
> Fact of the matter is, you've decided all men are like u or most of them must be. That's not reality. That's generalizing. Of course men want sex. I never said they didn't. But many experience a life where it's not what they seek out from women in all cases.


I think you are living in a fantasy world if you don't think most men just want sex. Many people use marriage as an excuse to have constant sex for long periods of time. Have you ever noticed the 50%+ divorce rate? Yeah, that's because a bunch of these sex people who realize that sex isn't everything and in order to live with someone for the rest of your life, you have to really love them, not just want to sleep with them.

My argument makes sense of biology, hormones, all that sexual desire stuff that we are programmed to have. I mean we should want sex, that's how we are made. And I actually wasn't even talking about my own preferences, because believe it or not, I'm not all about sex. I'd rather fall in love with a girl and never have sex than just have sex and not have it mean anything. Although I've never been in love, I do believe it's better than just sex alone. This is what makes us different than most animals, as human beings we also have the ability to love someone else without sex being the sole reason. But the thing is many people, especially men, ignore this and just follow their penises. I don't really see any problem with all these men going for sex, I mean biologically it makes sense that they want that, and as long as they wear a condom they will probably be okay, so it's not really hurting anybody.

I think your argument is fairy tale-like. I think I talked to you about this before, I can tell by your arguments that you are too much of an optimist. There are some ugly truths in the world and I believe you are lying to yourself about these ugly truths when you need to look at the world more realistically. You are so quick to place blame on other people in these threads for what they say, trying to say that we are narrow-minded, pessimists. Have you ever thought about the fact that maybe you are a narrow-minded and overly-optimistic?


----------



## Ivan AG

^^^

What makes this an "ugly truth"?

It's like saying the Pope is Catholic.

Men do tend to act on their biological needs rather than their rational side some of the time. However, one should be careful not to go too far with argument and toss rationality out the window as I have seen some EPs do. Biological determinism is equally as fallacious as some "blank slate" claims. 

It's humoring to read how some misanthropes would like to reduce human beings down to a bunch of hormones and chemicals, devoid of rationality.


----------



## Milco

Ivan AG said:


> If I'm seeking some sort of approval or reaction from others in order to feel positive, then how can I possibly live a comfortable life?


That is not what I'm saying either.
I'm not saying you should go around seeking validation for every little thing you do. It is important have have a sense of inner peace and calm, knowing you'll do alright and if you stumble and fail, you can get up and try again.
But that calm comes from a sense of security that you cannot in full create on your own.

That is my objection to what joinmartin is saying as well.
The idea that you can create your own happiness independently of how the world has been to you - or rather, that you ought to.
_"It's not about what happens to you, but rather how you react to it"_
Sure, that's almost trivial, but implication that how you react is your own responsibility is something I find scary.
If somebody emotionally abuses you or causes you pain, it's not your fault for being hurt.

Placing the responsibility of getting better on those feeling down only really serves to rid yourself of responsibility for others.
Essentially telling depressed people to "pull themselves together" is no strategy to helping them.

Maybe I stated it a bit too broadly. When I said "the way we see things" I meant in our approach to a situation.
I have gone to parties feeling really good about myself and and excited about going to have a great time with friends, only to end up alone as my friends headed off to chat up girls and the girls I asked to dance said no.

Our attitude towards intersocial matters does not determine the outcome of it, because we are not the only one involved.
We naturally then have to analyse if what we're trying to do with others is fair, if it's something we could reasonably expect to have, but if it is I don't see how you can say people should just be happy without it.

If you believe the money, the status and the opportunities you have are all your achievement without the grace of others, you are mistaken.
It doesn't matter as much when it is only about you yourself, but it is dangerous when personal fortune is used to mock, judge and look down on others.

Just to make one thing very clear though..
I do not sympathise with the generalisations made about women by some in this thread.
My concern is rather that people that honestly do give it their all and still encounter difficulties and defeats will blame themselves for everything and become even more self-loathing.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Ivan AG said:


> ^^^
> 
> What makes this an "ugly truth"?
> 
> It's like saying the Pope is Catholic.
> 
> Men do tend to act on their biological needs rather than their rational side some of the time. However, one should be careful not to go too far with argument and toss rationality out the window as I have seen some EPs do. Biological determinism is equally as fallacious as some "blank slate" claims.
> 
> It's humoring to read how some misanthropes would like to reduce human beings down to a bunch of hormones and chemicals, devoid of rationality.


You are just saying that because what I said was blunt and sounds mean.


----------



## Ivan AG

IcemanKilmer said:


> You are just saying that because it sounds mean.


What sounds mean?

My post?


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Ivan AG said:


> What sounds mean?
> 
> My post?


I was talking about my post. It was straight to the point and it could have easily came off as rude to people, and it obviously came off as rude to you, and you took offense as a human being.


----------



## Ivan AG

Milco said:


> Just to make one thing very clear though..
> I do not sympathise with the generalisations made about women by some in this thread.
> *My concern is rather that people that honestly do give it their all and still encounter difficulties and defeats will blame themselves for everything and become even more self-loathing*.


I'm not suggesting they blame themselves, but what can someone do when others are at fault?

You can't control others' actions.


----------



## Milco

I respectfully disagree.
You can call it victim mentality or what you want, but it's clear we have two very different experiences with what has helped us.
Maybe it's because I'm more prone to being depressed and feeling hopeless, I don't know, but being given the responsibility for getting better and that having to rely solely on myself is really hard and can almost make me fall apart.

I'm only trying to help people.
I don't mean to take away the things they can do and should do to feel better, but without making a direct link between attitude and success.
And I want to bring them up to a point where they can start taking responsibility and not have that pushed upon them from the start.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

JoinMartin, I'm reading your posts properly, it's just you don't get that you are overly-optimistic. It's like you said, in your mind you are always right, and everyone else is wrong. Every time I see you post on here, you write a book about how you are right and everyone else is wrong. It seems as if you disagree with people at least 80% of the time, and that's being generous from my estimation.

JoinMartin, your mindset is very self-centered and egotistical. You are basically shutting out other people's opinions and just putting your thoughts on life above them. I think you wouldn't have so many of these arguments if you respected people's opinions more, and not try to look for every nit-picky detail in people's post and turning it around by trying to make them sound wrong. That's why so many people disagree with you, because you are constantly telling them they are wrong. Technically, you are saying they are stupid and you are king of the mountain. Maybe you like calling people stupid?


----------



## StevenGlansberg

Haven't read the last few pages but I bet it's going something like:

Person: Generalizing statement about men/women.
Joinmartin: Don't generalize you don't know everyone in the world.

With the answer being somewhere in the middle.


----------



## stranger25

I like how someone pointed out the loophole in joinmartins thinking.

By the way joinmartin, please don't think I have some kind of grudge against you. I don't. I guess I just disagree with you on alot of things. But such is life.


----------



## Norm

joinmartin,

I'm trying hard to keep an open mind and remain receptive to your message, because you do in fact make some very sound points, but when you say something like:



joinmartin said:


> People with SA seem to be very adept at putting themselves at cause for the bad things that happen. They seem to think: all the bad stuff that happened in my life is my fault but I can't do anything to make positive changes in my life.


Talk about overgeneralizing! There are many, many people on this forum who don't do this at all.


----------



## stranger25

joinmartin said:


> Says the guy whose philosophy on women has absolutely nothing to back it up. Yep. LOL. LOL. LOL.


There is plenty of evidence to support the things I've said on here. You're right, I will always assume (know) that females have dating and relationships (should I say even life?) much easier then men. What tells me this is true? The fact that I envision a girl the same age as me, with a much better life, and a relationship, and money to boot. When I hear in my male ears, a girls voice says "I have a boyfriend I got a boyfriend I got a boyfriend I got a boyfriend I have a boyfriend". But what about me? what about me? "I don't have a girlfriend I don't have a girlfriend I don't have a girlfriend no girlfriend no girlfriend". So compared to me, it's a no brainer. They have life easier then me! Are they like me?

a friendless wimp for years on end

a depressed doormat

That, that right there is confirming what I know to be true. What I read on random message boards, about random guys who are perpetual incels, never had a girlfriend, never went on a date, etc. Some alot older then I am. This is the stuff a guy who's been dealt a bad hand will go through day in and day out. I'm sure you're aware that things like depression, and incel can tamper with other parts of someones life. This is the truth I'm experiencing it. It's confirming what *I know* to be true.


----------



## peach

stranger25 said:


> What tells me this is true? The fact that I envision a girl the same age as me, with a much better life, and a relationship, and money to boot.


...

Are you serious?

*That's* how you know your BS is true? Because you "envision" it?

And if I claim to know that the leaders of the world are actually anthropomorphic lizards in disguise, and the proof I submit is the fact that I "envision" it, does that make it true?

*NO*. It's a laughable, retarded reason.

But that has been your problem from jump street. You spend so much of your time fantasizing about how every female in the world has it so much better than you, but when actual females are telling you with their own words that you're just plain wrong in your assessment, and it's not supported by facts and figures, ... you see nothing, you hear nothing. :doh

Dude, you are a walking facepalm.


----------



## stranger25

Like I said, my own envisions, and the stories I read about other guys going through the same life struggles I go through, and like I said, it is confirming what I know to be true.


----------



## Ramondo

stranger25 said:


> I'm sure you're aware that things like depression, and incel can tamper with other parts of someones life.


What's 'incel'? I haven't heard of it?


----------



## stranger25

Incel is short for involuntary celibacy. Alot of incels are usually guys who are older virgins, or who have no real experience with the opposite sex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy

It's affects men more, despite what the feminists will tell you.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

ShyViolet said:


> I can only get a date if I join match.com or something similar, but that doesn't always work either.


So what you are saying is you still get dates. You basically just confirmed what Stranger25 is saying. You are on here complaining about not getting enough dates, while people like Stranger25 haven't been fortunate enough to be able to go on a single date at all. This just proves that women usually have it easier than men: Women complain about not getting enough dates while men complain about not getting a single date.


----------



## stranger25

It's like the guy in the video said. Women's issue is not having enough. Not getting enough dates. Not having the best man. Basically hypergamy. Men's issue is not being able to meet anyone at all, which is the worst obviously. A bad relationship is better then no relationship at all.


----------



## Harpuia

I'm sure I've already told you guys my story earlier. But I do understand the struggles of what people go through. Regardless of the situation, even if the odds are against you, you shouldn't just give up altogether and completely generalize. And yes, I'm not going to sugarcoat it, for many of us with SA, the odds ARE against us of finding a soulmate or finding "the one". The odds ARE against some of us of finding a date PERIOD. But the thing is, it's still a chance. You have plenty of time, you just have to take the chances, know exactly what you want and work it with what kind of girl you think your personality could fit with. You can do this through analyzing yourself, and analyzing different types of girls and see which one fits with you best first as a friend, and then as a possible romantic interest.

It's a start. All I can tell you is it took me ten years to get from the girl in high school laughing at my face and starting my three years of high school hell to get to where I am today. That is a lot of analyzing, and knowing that statistically who I am should be more undesirable to women than almost any other guy on this forum, if I could find anyone, surely many of you should be willing to take a shot at it.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Harpuia

stranger25 said:


> It's like the guy in the video said. Women's issue is not having enough. Not getting enough dates. Not having the best man. Basically hypergamy. Men's issue is not being able to meet anyone at all, which is the worst obviously. A bad relationship is better then no relationship at all.


As I've been learning the last few days especially, not always the case.

Of course, I think I overdosed on too many Cheaters episodes because this forum is giving me insomnia. lol.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

ShyViolet said:


> I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining. The original question was how did anyone get a boyfriend/girlfriend. I'm just saying that while I don't have one if I were to ever get one it would be from meeting online.
> Would you really rather be with someone who makes you miserable than be alone?


It doesn't matter if you didn't mean to sound like you were complaining, you _were_ complaining. It was quite obvious, and now all of the sudden you are getting defensive because you know I'm right that women tend to have it easier than men.

I'll answer this question myself, yes, i definitely would rather be with someone that makes me miserable. Then you know what I'd do? I'd break up with them eventually. Not all relationships are miserable all the way through. Plus, in your situation, you know you can just get into another relationship because you are a woman, so it doesn't matter if you have some failure relationships. At least guys are hanging out with you and showing interest in you. That's a successful relationship in itself. I'd take a horrible relationship that didn't go well because at least women would be with me and show interest in me. Even if the relationship was a failure, it wouldn't be much of a failure in my eyes. I'd appreciate the sole fact that a woman wanted to be with me at sometime during the relationship. I never get to experience that.


----------



## crimsoncora

Online to be honest it was most random thing ever, he was a brit and changed my life. I made first move because i couldnt wait. We stayed together for two yrs before breaking up. And my other bf was random meeting too, at grocery store, he made first move i mesmerized him in the milk aisle stayed together for year and broke up .......and now am single.


----------



## mellie

I didn't date anyone until I was 22 and met my current bf at work. I forced myself to go to a work party and he came up to me and we just got along. He has some SA too (though nowhere near as bad as me) so I guess it was just lucky that we met and he could accept that about me. I know people who have had luck w/ online dating too - if I was single that's what I would do.


----------



## kreeper

It's a process. It's not "hard" per se, it's just from my experience you need to build up your social ability and confidence first. Work on your looks, if you feel like you're unattractive; it's a great confidence booster to feel good about your appearance. You're probably going to have to make some friends first. I mean, the key I believe is basically to just grow more comfortable and confident socially, which is going to take some time. But it is possible, it happened for me to the extent where I've had relationships. And if I could do it, so can anyone else. 

The other option is to try some sort of online dating site. If you don't mind extreme superficiality, hotornot or ratemybody are free dating services that I have met people through. There's plenty of other sites though, and this can take some pressure away because it's expected and completely acceptable to show interest in people, that's the whole point of the sites. You don't have to deal with as much of the games and uncertainty that occurs in real life asking out situations. Anyways, best of luck.


----------



## primalrose

I have met all of my boyfriends online in games. Most of them were long distance ones that lasted between 1-6 months. There was only one where I somehow summed up the courage to say yes to a date and see him in real life, he coincidently lived in the same area as me. It lasted 6 months too, but the bad part was I had zero chemistry with him. I stayed out of loneliness and fear, which of course wasn't good at all. I don't know what the hell I'd do without the internet, probably constantly drunk to ease the anxiety of talking to people.


----------



## thequietmanuk

I'm such a stud the ladies come to me:boogie:boogie


But in all seriousness, My girlfriend did come to me, in fact she was the only woman who ever came near me, I have never had the balls to approach a woman.


----------



## MojoCrunch

I have no idea how I got the two boyfriends I did. I actually did nothing to pursue them. Had no idea why either of them even liked me. Nonethless, they didn't treat me very well and they didn't last long. People think that getting a bf/gf will give you more confidence and make you feel great about yourself, but that isn't always the case.


----------



## Mae West

Through friends. I have a best friend I've had all my life and we bumped into some people at a bar that she knew from high school. My latest boyfriend was there and he was friends with her friend from high school.


----------



## Serin

This thread is entertaining and inspirational, I can relate to alot of people here. 

I've never really had a conversation with a guy other than those related to me or younger family friends as more of a authoratative firgure I guess? I would never date any of them. Child hood bullying by boys still bothers me now and I'm waaay too nerdy, shy, and anxious to be attaractive. I run away or they run away when they realize what a nut I am if I try to talk back to them. 

I've accepted that I'm gunna be a spinster when I get older lol.


----------



## uhhhbrandon

Girls have asked me out before and I remember one even flirting with me, but I would rarely talk and I would get real anxious. Also, she had a boyfriend anyway. During my senior year in HS a girl was always after, but I had zero confidence and just ignored her. Now, I just have to myself out there if I want a gf.


----------



## NumeroUno

Pure luck. 

I think keeping them is the hardest. Mine understands my SA and awkward ways and why I'll not go with her to her friends even if i've been invited etc but even so it's difficult to do ''relationship'' things when you're awkward. I could never dream of getting married or even the proposing because I find the whole deal ridiculously awkward.


----------



## AliBaba

In each case I've had women approach me because they mistook "having social anxiety" for "being a complete dick". Or, maybe I'm just a complete dick. The two states of mind tend to become blurred after a while. In other words, each of my relationships has been based on a large scale misunderstanding.


----------



## Lifetimer

AliBaba said:


> In each case I've had women approach me because they mistook "having social anxiety" for "being a complete dick". In other words, each of my relationships has been based on a large scale misunderstanding.


What you wrote doesn't make sense. If the women that approached you thought you were " a complete dick", then WHY would they approach you in the first place? And even more confusing to me is is when you said you got into a relationship with these women because of that misunderstanding (that you were a complete dick). WHY would a woman get into a relationship with you if she thought of you that way???

Lifetimer


----------



## anomalous

Lifetimer said:


> What you wrote doesn't make sense. If the women that approached you thought you were " a complete dick", then WHY would they approach you in the first place?r


lol


----------



## miminka

Admittedly I guess I have had a boyfriend, in the general sense of the word. I never thought it would happen, I never thought anyone would feel anything above apathy towards me, I never thought anyone would be attracted to me, much less physically. I always felt so alienated, like I was the one person in the whole wide world who was destined to be alone; just unloveable, for whatever reason. My appearance was weird, my personality was repugnant, there wasn't an endearing quality to my name.

Because so very few people displayed interest in me throughout my life, I was always peering over the sidelines at couples happy together, wondering what it felt like. I'd never experienced that before- there was a whole realm of life I was forever alienated from. And it frustrated me, because in life you're bombarded by it; love, everywhere. As Allen Ginsberg said, 


> "The weight of the world is love, under the burden of solitude, under the burden of dissatisfaction".


There have been many different theories and platitudes I have received over the years of lamenting this to people. The most preposterous one is that I "intimidate guys". How could I intimidate someone I feel unbearably intimidated by? It didn't make sense. After some experiences I had this year, I now believe that might be true. A few guys started showing interest in me (above the occasional fleeting glance) all of which I am physically attracted to, with personalities I find interesting. I can't believe it, why they'd be interested in me... out of all the girls at my school that are far prettier and probably more personable.

Now I'm going through this peculiar thought process where I'm half-expecting them to decide I'm not worth their time and sever communication with me entirely.. so I'm trying not to let myself get too attached. It's a fear of abandonment. Even if they aren't though, I'm sure I will meet people I am more compatible with.. I need more confidence in myself. I have a very complex relationship with my ego... but, unlike some people I'm not going to get hung up over my seemingly perpetual state of single-hood. I am, after all, only 16- and haven't even gone to university. And even if I don't get into a satisfactory relationship for a long while, there are other sources of happiness... right? ...

:um


----------



## CK1708

Cheesus Chrust said:


> This is almost not an issue whatsoever for girls. It's the guys that have to make the move and be assertive at the start, unfortunately. So if you're a girl with SA, I hate to be taking sides here, but you got no idea what it's like being a guy with SA and doing the whole dating thing. You gals can pretty much just lay back, look pretty, and it'll come your way. And it sounds like you're on the right track and have a pretty bright future if the ladies are already asking YOU out. Usually you gotta make the move.


This guy knows what he is talking about


----------



## AliBaba

Lifetimer said:


> What you wrote doesn't make sense. If the women that approached you thought you were " a complete dick", then WHY would they approach you in the first place? And even more confusing to me is is when you said you got into a relationship with these women because of that misunderstanding (that you were a complete dick). WHY would a woman get into a relationship with you if she thought of you that way???


:lol Dude, I myself am not even sure what I meant by all of that. It was an ill conceived & thoughtlessly worded post no doubt about it. I left out several key details & would love to explain what I meant, but it would take at least 4 paragraphs & I don't want to interfere with the battle of the sexes.


----------



## AliBaba

AudreyHepburn said:


> And even if I don't get into a satisfactory relationship for a long while, there are other sources of happiness... right? ...
> 
> :um


Yes there are other sources of happiness in life. You have the right attitude. Do you think maybe you intimidate people your age because of how much more intelligent you are than them? You are 16 & you quoted Allen Ginsberg in your post. The only 16 year old I know works at Cousin's Subs & watches ICarly on a regular basis.

I would guess a whole new world would open up to you once you leave home and go to university.


----------



## schizophrenic

i me my girlfriend(s) online


----------



## Arisa1536

> Originally Posted by *Cheesus Chrust *
> This is almost not an issue whatsoever for girls. It's the guys that have to make the move and be assertive at the start, unfortunately. So if you're a girl with SA, I hate to be taking sides here, but you got no idea what it's like being a guy with SA and doing the whole dating thing. You gals can pretty much just lay back, look pretty, and it'll come your way. And it sounds like you're on the right track and have a pretty bright future if the ladies are already asking YOU out. Usually you gotta make the move.


LIES!!!!
I do not know what sort of twisted delusion some people have (well some guys) that women with SA or in general just walk around with oodles of confidence and the ability to attract men from north to south and all the rest of it. Its B.S to be honest
in the past i had to make the first move because a lot of guys were too scared and when i did they rejected me anyway, so i came across as being "too friendly"
explain to me again how its easier dating if u are a girl with SA? 
maybe i was too forceful? possibly did not know them well enough or maybe it was a looks thing who knows? but rejection happens a lot either way and it does not matter if u are a male or a female


----------



## EKC1224

I've met my husband during college years in cafe. He overlooked my awkwardness which made me warm up in time, and it all started from there. Up to this day he thinks I am anti social. I am not.. I want to get close to people just don't know how I can control my SA. 

He was dull not to tell how nervous I was back then, and he still is dull about my problems now. lol But he is truly my better half. All seem to get better when he is next to me.


----------



## EKC1224

Lifetimer said:


> What you wrote doesn't make sense. If the women that approached you thought you were " a complete dick", then WHY would they approach you in the first place? And even more confusing to me is is when you said you got into a relationship with these women because of that misunderstanding (that you were a complete dick). WHY would a woman get into a relationship with you if she thought of you that way???
> 
> Lifetimer


His story is what it is. If you are genuinely confused....well, i guess there is nothing better then to ask as you had, but please don't differ with him. It is what it is. Already hard for ppl like me to open up as is.


----------



## peach123

I met my current male friend online, it is a long distance relationship so I hope to have a boyfriend who lives closer to me in the future.


----------



## RenegadeReloaded

I had quite a story. If it's allowed to post a link to other forum where I told the story, so a mod pls answer.


----------



## Cody88

The thing about my failures at love is I've come out of my shell for a girl plenty of times only to get shot back down despite breaking out of my shell lol so it's like no solution is the answer to my love life like on some algebra problems. =/


----------



## au Lait

Good old-fashioned bribery.


----------



## IcemanKilmer

Arisa1536 said:


> LIES!!!!
> explain to me again how its easier dating if u are a girl with SA?


It goes back centuries ago. Men have always made the first move the majority of the time. Although women are strong enough to live by themselves now, not much has changed in the dating world.

It's still extremely lopsided with who makes the first move, men are by far the aggressors the majority of the time. Everyone knows this, and I'm not even sure why you are actually trying to debate this?

We are on a SA website here, and talking about shyness and dating. In many cases, the hardest thing to do is initiate conversation with the opposite sex for people with SAD.

Now think about the fact that men usually have to make the first move, and women don't have to make the first move. This sole fact makes it so much easier for shy women compared to shy men. The biggest barrier for someone who is shy to get a date is breaking the ice.

Most women get the ice broken for them, while most men have to break the ice. As a person with SA, you should have some idea how incredibly difficult it is to just walk up to the opposite sex and start talking. Imagine having the pressure to have to do that whenever you wanted to get a date. That's how it is for men.


----------



## googleamiable

then multiply it by 1000 because men have more suspicion around them, multiply that by 1000 because shy / quiet / awkward men have even more, multiply that by 1000 because men with SA will more often than not get rejected all the time & never approached, and u can start thinking about how it's lopsided


----------



## tiffany88

Based on my experience, I agree with the two posters above me. Shyness for a girl can be seen as an endearing quality, but how many times have you heard "women like confident men"? Not that this works in my favor since I stay out of the dating scene, but I will concede this point.


----------



## Arisa1536

tiffany88 said:


> Based on my experience, I agree with the two posters above me. Shyness for a girl can be seen as an endearing quality, but how many times have you heard "women like confident men"? Not that this works in my favor since I stay out of the dating scene, but I will concede this point.


shyness never helped me, especially at school
i guess its different in america :lol and places where the guys tend to be more approachable but in new zealand the guys tend to stand there and wait for girls to approach them, this has happened to two of my friends and they said if they had not made the first move, she would not have been engaged by now

its worse for a girl to be rejected since guys are "supposedly" the ones who ask us out, but imagine being rejected by someone who cannot even be bothered to try to talk to you, let alone like you???


----------



## Hamtown

I'm going to say this.Older women in there 30s-40s i see at parties absolutely adore me and say some really complimenting things, they make the "If i was younger wink wink" suggestion.I don't say much of anything and receive amazing feedback. Although young girls/my age i get the opposite.Clearly there's some game in play and i don't know the rules haha, they aren't blatant, they give you cues, quick looks, i've got to approach them and take control or else shes going to lose interest and fly to the next hot guy whether its at a party or in the classroom. I have learnt that the way i perceive myself is completely false to how the rest of the universe must see me lol.As for girlfriend...i reckon i won't have to play some silly game to be with her.


----------



## Ape in space

Hamtown said:


> I'm going to say this.Older women in there 30s-40s i see at parties absolutely adore me and say some really complimenting things, they make the "If i was younger wink wink" suggestion.


I seem to get the love from older women too. My 80-year-old piano theory teacher called me gorgeous on several occasions. Score! And some other random mothers said similar things. Why can't I get a girl my own age to like me? :|


----------



## Hamtown

Ape in space said:


> I seem to get the love from older women too. My 80-year-old piano theory teacher called me gorgeous on several occasions. Score! And some other random mothers said similar things. Why can't I get a girl my own age to like me? :|


 LOL 80, nanna confidence ftw. The thing with older women there all experienced so they all over play the game stage...still party but **** like winking at each other lol.Well you'd think so. I think a small part of it they just do it to bring my confidence up, i mean i know i'm not destitute but i think its clear i haven't had much experience with women!Its nice but its not exactly 'living it to the max' hanging out with people who were partying my age only when i was born hahaha


----------



## blinds8

On a side note though don't go looking for love. My sister has done this with dating sites etc and it never works out. Love takes its own course, it will find you, not the other way round.[/QUOTE]

right, thank-you!:thanks


----------



## Revenwyn

We were coerced by someone I was hitting on to talk to each other, and ended up seeing that we were a perfect fit right away.


----------



## Lionking92

i always had a bf throughout middle school and high school they pretty much just broke my shell. With my current boyfriend it was harder since i hadn't dated anybody for a year or so, but we've been dating for 7 months now and he understand me completly since his sister has social anxiety and dad has generalized


----------



## beautifulsadness

I get alot of anxiety when it comes to dating, therefore, I am single, and never had a serious relationship. If i think a guy is going to come up to me, i get extremely nervous and shy, and avert my attention to something else. Eyes always down. =/.


----------



## Shauna

I dont see how someone with severe SA can maintain a relationship. The phone calls,conversations,meeting their family n friends,introducing them to your family n having to explain why you're not close with them,etc and spending time with them everyday always feeling anxious,awkward,n unsure of yourself,worrying about being too ugly, boring,stupid,or just generally unappealing. Its alot of stress n burden. The people who have bfs/gfs must have mild SA,cause otherwise I dont see how you could do it. having a relationship would be nice...but I know im to messed up for one...I cant even maintain family relationships or general Friendships.

Dont have anything to offer anyone and my social And communication skills are horrid.


----------



## TheOtherChosenOne

So far I've only had a girlfriend once, and the way I look at it, it was kind of a fluke of an occurance. I met her at the beginning of my senior year of high school (she was a sophomore at the time) on a weekend retreat that the choir took. Strangely, she kept going out of her way to interact with me, to the point of stealing the book I was reading during one period of downtime so I'd hang out with her, lol. And she was always sitting next to me whenever there'd be some kind of gathering. I wasn't sure what to make of it; up until now I considered myself lucky if a girl even acknowledged my existence. I thought she might just be hanging out with me because I was kind of a loner, since she was quite the extrovert. One of my friends told me that she probably liked me, and while I couldn't think of a reason why that would be I felt a bit emboldened by it. We kept in touch after that trip, and a short while later I asked her to our school's homecoming dance. It was the first time I'd done anything of that nature. The dance experience on a whole was pretty 'meh,' but somehow I still felt like I had a chance with her. A few weeks later I flat out asked her if she was interested in a relationship with me, and she agreed. 
We were together for about four months, give or take, the time during which she was basically grabbing my hand and helping me stumble through what was entirely unfamiliar territory for me. Eventually I guess she got tired of my introversion and broke up with me. 
Well, that ended up being pretty long, my apologies. I doubt that I would have ever been able to pursue a relationship if I hadn't known she was interested in me. Basically, her extroversion overcame my introversion, but our differences were too great to maintain a relationship. It's a time in my life I recall fondly, however.


----------



## Dazzle

I met my man at work, he was too timid to ask me out but would playfully bother me all the time. However some other guy who I also worked with liked me too and he was not afraid to talk to me, he ask me out and because no one else has ever had the nerve to ask me out I said yes. To make a long story short he was an *** hole. However, because my cousin starting working at the same job as me, the guy who was timid used her to communicate to me, he gave her his number and told her to tell me to call him, so I called him and 8 years later we still are together and we are about to get married. We just had our first child about a month ago too.


----------



## DreamerInSlumberland

My last long term relationship I met him online. I can't really form a relationship with someone outside of that since guys around my age are too shy and the confident ones are too old (40-60). I don't think I'm very approachable.


----------



## RachaelAdele

The only relationship I've been in actually did me more bad than good. Like, a LOT more bad than good. I wish it never happened to be honest.

Anyway, I went round to (my only) friend's house for a movie night and she had invited this other guy as well and it's really strange, my anxiety just vanished as soon as I saw him, so I was able to be myself completely. So a couple of days after, he asked me out. Unfortunately, he found out about my SAD when I met his parents and friends and we both realised that it wasn't going to work.

I do agree that it must be harder for you guys with SAD as it is considered your role to make the first move.


----------



## AussiePea

I can really only meet people online as the initial point of contact. For me, meeting a complete stranger in person and creating a conversation with them to the point where I could even consider flirting and asking on a date seems impossible, but with online dating and the ability to get to know someone without that ridiculously awkward initial move and conversation makes it possible for me.

That doesn't mean it's any easier to create a relationship from it though, 5 first dates and nothing from it, guess I lack the excitement that they were after. Still trying to find someone but it's so difficult and the constant failures hurt the will to keep trying, not to mention that I am constantly exposed to the awful relationships that some of my friends are in, and that doesn't do much for the desires to have my own.

One day, one day.


----------



## kuhan1923

daniel1989 said:


> Girlfriend? what girlfriend?


This. Lol.


----------



## bazinga

I got a girlfriend at the wise old age of 15 just by telling her 'I think I like you.' Aah, it was such a simple time. Girls usually approached me and showed interest probably because I used to be fun and confident. Things have changed a lot.


----------



## loneranger

IcemanKilmer said:


> I'm more concerned with making friends right now. I don't even have one friend.
> 
> I don't think we should be approaching women just to get laid, anyways. That sounds like it sucks. I've done it before, and it did suck usually. We should just try to make friendly relationships with the world first. If it comes to more than that with the women, than so be it. But we shouldn't have to try to have sex is what I'm saying.
> 
> The whole bar scene expectations are insane to me. Most people there have one goal in mind: sex. As a guy, you are expected to "hunt for prey." What ever happened to just talking amongst other people as friends?


:thumbup:


----------



## mezzoforte

AussiePea said:


> I can really only meet people online as the initial point of contact. For me, meeting a complete stranger in person and creating a conversation with them to the point where I could even consider flirting and asking on a date seems impossible, but with online dating and the ability to get to know someone without that ridiculously awkward initial move and conversation makes it possible for me.


Same.


----------



## Daveyboy

They always approach me (because I suck at recieving signals or too shy).

*Last one:* I worked at a place that was alittle more social than now, she was telling me about a biathlon (bike/run) she wanted to try. I said I would love to try that too but I never rode a bike through the trails. She said she would train me..dated from then...

*Before that*..I girl at work was telling me all her friends were going into the city to see the Xmas tree (NYC), but it was all couples and she didn't know if she would go. I joked I would allow her to rent me out for the day and laughed, but if she needed someone I would go if she couldn't find anyone. She didn't look, she took me.. dated from there.


----------



## anxiousdevin

well i could understand where youre coming from just because i freak the hell out now, and im in a relationship. but you shouldnt be worried about it, there is always someone for you. 

the only reason im so damn anxious is because my first love dated my old best friend right after me, totally screwed me up, now i have a hard time trusting girls im dating. its fine at first than poof. anxiety sets in, the girl im with now is kindof a club girl, so i freak the heck out when im not there with her. meeting other guys, dancing, drinking, bad mix in my opinion, but its what she likes, so i cant tell her to NOT go ever. it would be rude and i might as well chain her to a pole and just give her a bowl of reeses pieces for food.


----------



## brian gallegos

*dude...*

this sucks ***.. i literally feel the same exact way that you do. and im ashamed to say that i have this stupid thing. im so aggravated. i have this crush on a girl and i do think she likes me because she does this thing to me that i like all the time and its so hard to like be myself cause its incredibly awkward at sometimes i see for her and for me nothing but nervousness. i need help so bad.:no


----------



## brian gallegos

brian gallegos said:


> this sucks ***.. i literally feel the same exact way that you do. and im ashamed to say that i have this stupid thing. im so aggravated too, i have this crush on a girl and i do think she likes me because she does this thing to me that i like all the time and its so hard to like be myself cause its incredibly awkward for her i see and for me nothing but nervousness. i need help so bad.:no


----------



## mixtape

Personal ads, before the Internet. This was the only way I could ever meet a girl. So called normal ways meeting in bars, parties, mall, etc never led led to anything and were exceptionally anxiety inducing to me to attempt.


----------



## Fairykins

These posts give me some hope haha 

I've never been in a relationship and I know I'm still young but it feels like everyone I know has had many relationships or is currently in one, even my friends who are shy/socially anxious like me. So whenever anyone brings up past or current boyfriend/girlfriend stories and romantic stuff I kind of blend into the furniture...

I wish to know the feeling of having someone to be depend on and go on dates with. It would be nice just having someone who cares and loves me as much as I do them *sigh*

Hopefully someday I meet someone nice and have the courage to maintain a relationship with them and they have the patience for me haha


----------



## goku23

haven't had a girlfriend since 18, she liked me since school but said she was a bit nervous back then. got my number from a mutual friend.

didn't last long though, just a few months. my SA was bad and i didn't feel comfortable opening up and getting too close so she got a bit annoyed!
after that i got in a bit of trouble and lost contact with small circle of friends i had.
still lucky to have a couple though.

think the only person i could maintain a relationship with is someone who's been through similar as me,
even then im not so sure, quite stuck in my ways! 
maybe in the future but thought of a relationship puts me off for now.
my manager at work was telling me earlier in the year that a lot of girls from our office were asking about me to her everytime i go to collect my payslip but the thought if it just freaks me out!

i dont do well with normal people! and it shows when i talk to them!
i think people with SA and colourful minds are more interesting anyway! (tried to be polite so i said colourful minds lol)


----------



## Stilla

Old thread is old. Oh Sas in 2011, when threads like this could go on and on but mentioning the word creep or sex would end up in thread lock. I hope stranger25 and IceMankilmer are happier now than they seemed back then. 



Don't mind me I'm just having a silent minute for old sas. :dead


----------



## oneisenough

I'm a 22 year-old woman. My other sisters had a couple of boyfriends already, including my youngest sister. I consider myself to be the youngest because I never started dating yet and I have no influence to do so as of now.


----------



## Elad

i started touching her

she started touching me

???

how did your hands get in my pants

i dunno how did yours get in mine

???

lets keep doing this


----------



## eveningbat

Elad said:


> i started touching her
> 
> she started touching me
> 
> ???
> 
> how did your hands get in my pants
> 
> i dunno how did yours get in mine
> 
> ???
> 
> lets keep doing this


:haha


----------



## forgetmylife

well i met her at a... um... 

a girlfriend? 

nevermind...


----------



## equiiaddict

My boyfriend and I met on a dating site, POF to be exact. We both have a very similar personality...introverted, reserved, plus he's not the "party/bar/club" type at all (neither am I,) and unfortunately in today's world if you aren't into that scene then that severely limits you when it comes to meeting someone. (That's where online dating comes in, imo!) I'd had bad luck with guys on dating sites before, but I got lucky with this one, I don't really know what else to say. :b
We talked online for a few weeks before even considering meeting up, so maybe not rushing right into things helped us. We've been together for almost 7 months so far.


----------



## Wren611

I had insignificant boyfriends throughout childhood, but I wouldn't do anything with them, although I kissed one. I met them all at school.

I was 15 when I truly fell for someone though, and I did because we began as friends in school, were in a lot of classes together and the same tutor group. He was weird, an outcast, awkward, but he was really funny and really sweet, and he treated me like a person, wanted to get to know me, and friendship went into a relationship. We didn't have a lot in common, but that didn't matter to us. Still didn't as we grew up, because we'd been friends until this year. I love him still though, that'll never die.

My ex-girlfriend and I met online. We had a lot in common, everything went smoothly and we met up in person a year later at mine; she was brought up by a friend who was going to a city near me for some medieval re-enactment thing. It was amazing meeting her, and we had the house to ourselves that first night so it was stressful for us both. She had Borderline Personality Disorder, we found out a couple of years later, and that sort of explained a lot because she was manipulative, controlling, blackmailing, threatening, envious of my friends and family and hobbies, she was incredibly emotionally distant from me in the end, and I'd cracked under the pressure. We broke up for 8 months and then she contacted me on FB out of the blue, and wanted to be with me again, saying she missed me, so we tried to make it work for another year but it wouldn't.

I don't think there'll be anyone else, but if there is, I'd want them close-by so we could meet up often and with no mental health issues because I can't deal with another like my ex-girlfriend.


----------



## imwiththedj

Let her know you don't like her like that


----------



## tonyhd71

I met my girlfriend at target (hint: my "girlfriend" is my Nintendo 3ds :lol )


----------



## udeletaylor

You have to get out and meet people


----------



## chaosherz

This thread must be coming up on Google search. Started in 2011 and now has 37,000 views woah! All I can say is I don't know how anyone with SA gets into a relationship...


----------



## Joe

girls pm me please

(worth a try)


----------



## LolaViola

Boyfriend? What's that? :con


----------



## LolaViola

Buckyx said:


> some kind of pokemon, I heard some rumors about a girlfriend too


 Ahhh...cool. Thanks man lol


----------



## Brandeezy

Damn, I can't meet people irl or online, my life is a big fail


----------



## running man

chaosherz said:


> This thread must be coming up on Google search. Started in 2011 and now has 37,000 views woah! All I can say is I don't know how anyone with SA gets into a relationship...


2 words:

Drunk texting.


----------

