# Fish oil is good for Social Anxiety, but....



## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Fish oil, Social Anxiety and Dopamine.*

...You need to UP the dose. 

Most of us have tried it. I think few of us have attributed any positive effects to it. However, I think the problem lies in the dose. I've been researching Fish oil more closely after finding these two research studies.

1. Overexpression of dopamine receptor genes and their products in the postnatal rat brain following maternal n-3 fatty acid dietary deficiency.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Basically, this says that taking fish oil regulates the mesocortical and mesolimbic pathways in the brain. Decreased activity in the mesocortical pathway causes social widthdrawaal, loss of motivation and loss of display of emotions, through the action of dpamine. Dopamine receptors are of two kinds, D1 and D2. An imbalance, like say, schitzophrenia have a decreased function in D1, which produces the feeling of apathy, social withdrawal and loss of motivation. Then, at the same time, excess activity in D2 causes the hallucinatios, etc. The loss of motivation and social isolation is something I think we all suffer from and this is caused by decreased activity in D1 receptors. I hope this makes sense so far. This is why and where this occurs.

Well, this study shows that high doses of Fish oil actually modulates the function of the Dopamine Receptors, both D1 and D2. So, in theory, these patients should feel more motivated and should have less hallucinations. This is an amazing find!



> The dopamine mesocorticolimbic pathway is affected by deficiency in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids1,2,3
> Luc Zimmer, Sylvie Vancassel, Sylvain Cantagrel, Patrick Breton, Séraphin Delamanche, Denis Guilloteau, Georges Durand and Sylvie Chalon
> 
> Background: Several findings in humans support the hypothesis of links between n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) status and psychiatric diseases.
> ...


Going back to fish oil, the reason why most people don't' feel benefits is because studies typically use really high doses of it. Sometimes up to 9/10 grams of it. If you look at your bottles oil, you probably get around 500 g per 1 or 2 capsules. Do the math, that's a lot of pills. In this case, it would be better to buy the liquid fish oil and take in by the tablespoons. So there you have it. You need to increase the dose to feel anything. The equivalent in fish would be eating a 4-6 pz portion of salmon 3 or 4 times a day, every day for months. Maybe this is needed to restore the balance of Omega-3 fatty acids. I don't know.

The second study,

2. The effect of a diet containing long-chain fatty acids on the formation of insoluble elastin in the rat aorta

This other study says that eating long chain fatty acids, like fish oil, can increase the production of elastin, which would help connective tissue disorders like mitral valve prolapse. This is good for me also.

3. Numerous other studies say Fish oil is really really good for depression

However, once again, the problem is in the doses. So there you have it. Buy liquid fish oil (not in capsules) and take a few tablespoons a day. This should help you feel a difference. I'm more interested in Cod liver oil after reading this article from the weston price foundation.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrit ... eroil.html

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrit ... -menu.html
------------------

Also,

Some guy posted this on a site, I don't remember the link. But he found a solution for this problems with depression. It was all mainly diet. What I see that's relevant to us is that he incorporated vitamin D by increasing his sun exposure and he also included lots of fat in his diet. Fats are good for us, the good ones anyways. Most of us eat very little fat while our brains and nervous systems are purely made of fat.



> I suffered from depression, for many years-it was so bad that often I thought that the only answer for my life would be to end it. Thoughts of suicide danced through my mind frequently.
> 
> Early March 2008 I changed my diet completely:
> 
> ...


TO SUM IT UP, decreased dopamine activity in the mesocortical pathway causes social widthdrawal, loss of motivation and loss of display of emotions. This can be corrected by high doses of fish oil. So, put in lamens tersm, social anxiety, laziness and normal emotional expression CAN be corrected with fish oil. I think this is amazing and it supports the general idea that all of our problems are due to out diet.

I also read somewhere, that some people don't react well to fish oil. It makes them nervous or something. Let me see if I can find the website. I didn't find it...but anyways, This is due to a pyrrole disorder and/or zinc deficiency and B6 deficiency. So correctly this should help you tolerate fish oil better.

Comments, experiences, criticisms are welcome. Hope this helps!


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## sparkations (Nov 26, 2003)

I definitely suffer from a fatty acid imbalance, and my brain is starving for some DHA. 
The main concern i have is that when fish oil is purified, it leaves dioxins and furans. when it is unrefined, there are traces of pcbs, mercury, and other harmful chemicals. Upping the dosage of fish oils-5 grams or more, would mean exceeding the limit tolerable set by the WHO for the amount of dioxins and furans and mercury, etc. 

I have found a vegetable based DHA source-basically, algae. It's "Udo's Choice Unrefined Algae DHA". I was wondering whether anyone had any information they could link to on how much toxin the algal source schizochytrium sp. contains. I hope it doesn't contain as many toxins as fish oil.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

thanks for the info. It's eye opening. I've read that mercury it tipically found in the meats of the fish, not in the oil. Also, mercury is not oil soluble but is water soluble so you shouldn't expect to find high concentrations of it. Also, if you're getting enough trace minerals, your body should chelate these out automatically. I don't have any info on the dioxins and durans. For this reason though, another vegetable source can be flax oil. But this increases estrogen levels to high in men.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

The Udo's Choice Unrefined Algae DHA doesn't seem to have any EPA, which is the active ingredient in fish oil that gives it all its benefits. I wonder also about the accumulation of toxins. I try to get the fish oil from Norwegian sources that will hopefully have less contamination. However, seeing the nature of psychiatric conditions, it's either death by our own hands or death from toxins...lol Kinda hard to choose..


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## sparkations (Nov 26, 2003)

> The Udo's Choice Unrefined Algae DHA doesn't seem to have any EPA, which is the active ingredient in fish oil that gives it all its benefits. I wonder also about the accumulation of toxins. I try to get the fish oil from Norwegian sources that will hopefully have less contamination. However, seeing the nature of psychiatric conditions, it's either death by our own hands or death from toxins...lol Kinda hard to choose..


which fish oil do you use that doesn't go through a molecularly distilled process and is a norwegian source? i bought krill oil, which is unrefined, but it was pretty expensive and contained very small amounts of EPA and DPA. (only about 100 mg of EPA and DHA) per serving. Apparently, krill oil should contain far fewer toxins because they reside deeper in the oceans where they're less likely to come in contact with the metal industrial pollutants.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

right now I'm looking into high vitamin cod liver oil and fermented cod liver oil. both are made by Blue ice and I think Ron's. Let me fish those links for ya..

http://wolfrivernaturals.com/blue-ice-h ... er-oil.htm

but honestly, it's so darn expensive. So instead, I bought this..

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/item/itemKey/48318

I'm still waiting on delivery so I can't comment on quality yet.


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## sparkations (Nov 26, 2003)

found a link to a site that sells unrefined fish oil from wild sources:

http://www.vitalchoice.com/shop/shop2.cfm?category=19

here's another link:

http://www.pivotalproduct.com/salmonoil.html


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Thanks. I'll check those out


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Just received my order. I'm excited to start taking it! I'll post results.


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## ToEkNeE (Aug 20, 2004)

Have you had any luck with this? How much are you taking? I've just been taking extra of my fish oil caps to use up the bottle, then I may buy the liquid stuff.


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

http://www.iherb.com/Search.aspx?c=1&st=l&kw=fish+oil


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I got it from iherb. Pick the one you like from the link above. I think they're all good.


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

I didn't see this thread going around when I posted before about it in the Triumphs section.


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