# 2009 MLB season thread!!!!



## mistermet

That's right, it's almost time for the boys of summer to get started once again! Pitchers and catchers will begin reporting to spring training complexes in the next week or so and then soon enough, the games begin!

This thread is dedicated to the baseball fans on the SAS board. Give a shout out if you have baseball fever!!

And LET'S GO METS!!!


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## dax

I vote we call a-rod a-roid all season. 

Well the sox picked up Smoltz in the off-season who I predict will be totally unimpressive. It's a mistake similar to picking up Gagne. They always seems to pick old guys at the end of their careers who need or have had major surjuries. 

You guys are all set with Santana


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## anonymid

dax said:


> I vote we call a-rod a-roid all season.
> 
> Well the sox picked up Smoltz in the off-season who I predict will be totally unimpressive. It's a mistake similar to picking up Gagne. They always seems to pick old guys at the end of their careers who need or have had major surjuries.
> 
> You guys are all set with Santana


I don't know how you can call picking up Smoltz a mistake. It's not like they're paying an arm and a leg for him; it's a very low-risk pickup. The Red Sox' season is not going to hinge on whether or not Smoltz is able to pitch and pitch well. If it works out, great (I'm a fan of both the Red Sox and Smoltz, so of course I hope it does), but if not, oh well.


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## anonymid

mistermet said:


> That's right, it's almost time for the boys of summer to get started once again! Pitchers and catchers will begin reporting to spring training complexes in the next week or so and then soon enough, the games begin!
> 
> This thread is dedicated to the baseball fans on the SAS board. Give a shout out if you have baseball fever!!
> 
> And LET'S GO METS!!!


Can't wait for the season. The Red Sox and Twins are my two favorite teams, but I started pulling for the Mets a bit last season, too, because I'm a big Johan Santana fan. I was sorry to see the Twins lose him, but was glad that he at least didn't end up with the Yankees (of course I would have been very happy if he'd gone to the Red Sox).

Anyway, I just moved to the Chicago area, and am going to try catch at least one game at each ballpark. With any luck I'll be able to catch the Red Sox when they come to U.S. Cellular in September, but failing that, I'll have plenty of opportunities to see the Twins, at least (who are also playing an interleague series against the Cubs in June; ideally, perhaps, I can get to a game of that series and one of the Sox-Sox games in September).


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## Atticus

I think the A-roid thing is a given.

Its about 65 here today and I'm ready.


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## mistermet

haha yes...finally an excuse to call him A-Roid (or A-Fraud). i used to call him Double Play-Rod or Overpaid-Rod, but A-Roid works so much better!

the Sox got Smoltz for 5 million, i think, which is pretty cheap and just from watching him pitch over the years with the braves, he is an ace and a great pitcher. i kind of wanted the mets to get him b/c he's just a gutsy pitcher (goes out there and gives it his all, kind of like Santana). if he's healthy and even close to what he was a couple of years ago, you'll love him! plus the Sox got Brad Penny too and he was an ace the last few years as well. the sox are LOADED!

speaking of Santana, man do i love him! he's just such a great competitor. i can count one bad game that he threw last season (gave up 5 runs vs the Reds in his 1st game after the AS break). other than that he was great and in August and September...he was in a whole other stratosphere! our rotation is in good shape with Johan, Pelfrey, Ollie, Maine (who should be healthy after surgery) and either Freddy Garcia or Tim Redding or Jon Neise as the #5. it's our offense that has some question marks (Delgado, Castillo, Schneider, the bench).


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## mistermet

anonymid said:


> Can't wait for the season. The Red Sox and Twins are my two favorite teams, but I started pulling for the Mets a bit last season, too, because I'm a big Johan Santana fan. I was sorry to see the Twins lose him, but was glad that he at least didn't end up with the Yankees (of course I would have been very happy if he'd gone to the Red Sox).
> 
> Anyway, I just moved to the Chicago area, and am going to try catch at least one game at each ballpark. With any luck I'll be able to catch the Red Sox when they come to U.S. Cellular in September, but failing that, I'll have plenty of opportunities to see the Twins, at least (who are also playing an interleague series against the Cubs in June; ideally, perhaps, I can get to a game of that series and one of the Sox-Sox games in September).


i hope that i'll be able to catch a game at Wrigley someday...it's on my to-do list. i've already seen games at (Old) Yankee Stadium and Fenway. i hear Wrigley's a really cool place to catch a game!


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## dax

Smoltz is a great pitcher but hes old and he's coming off major surgery. To me it just seems like a repeat of Schilling and Gagne, both had similar issues. Schilling was great for a season but began to fall apart after that. Smoltz won't even be in the lineup until June. I don't think at his age, his surgery is something he will fully recover from. He just isn't going to have the stuff he had a few years back when he had a sub 3 ERA. Plus he's playing with the big boys in the AL now. He just won't perform as well as in the NL with all that DH power.


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## anonymid

dax said:


> Smoltz is a great pitcher but hes old and he's coming off major surgery. To me it just seems like a repeat of Schilling and Gagne, both had similar issues. Schilling was great for a season but began to fall apart after that. Smoltz won't even be in the lineup until June. I don't think at his age, his surgery is something he will fully recover from. He just isn't going to have the stuff he had a few years back when he had a sub 3 ERA. Plus he's playing with the big boys in the AL now. He just won't perform as well as in the NL with all that DH power.


I don't disagree with anything you're saying--but the point is that the expectations are not high like they were for Gagne (for whom, in retrospect, they shouldn't have been). No one's going into this banking on Smoltz being crucial to the Sox' hopes this year. It's understood that he might not return to his old form; it's a low-risk, high-reward gamble.


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## bezoomny

My team is the Atlanta Braves. So yeah, I don't really get my hopes up in the realm of baseball... 

I was a kid when they were really great though, so I've got memories.

*world's tiniest violin plays*


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## rdrr

the yankees will win the world series this year.


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## mistermet

rdrr said:


> the yankees will win the world series this year.


hahaha...

no.


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## mistermet

bezoomny said:


> My team is the Atlanta Braves. So yeah, I don't really get my hopes up in the realm of baseball...
> 
> I was a kid when they were really great though, so I've got memories.
> 
> *world's tiniest violin plays*


i remember those days in the late 90's and early 00's where the big rivalry was Mets/Braves (of course the Braves typically won). now that the Braves aren't good, its shifted to Mets/Phillies and i have to say that i really despise the Phillies.


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## dax

mistermet said:


> hahaha...
> 
> no.


werd


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## Uncle Charlie

The AL East is going to be one fun division to watch this year, my team is the Red Sox by the way. So many things can play into our favor this year: Ortiz putting up better numbers than last year, Lowell staying healthy, Beckett pitching like the Beckett of old, a possible breakout season for Clay Buchholz, as well as the improved pitching depth (assuming a few of these guys pan out). Even with all the injury woes and shortcomings of last year, we still managed to squeeze out seven games in the ALCS. Only problem is that the Rays and Yankees are both improved from last year, so this should be exciting to watch.


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## brimontz

The Yankees' spending spree and the A-Rod thing has sapped my interest in the 2009 baseball season before it even begins. I don't think the Yanks will win it all, but I'm tired of the uneven playing field in baseball, where teams can't keep the players they've helped develop into stars when those players reach the primes of their career. Until there's a true salary cap and true revenue sharing, my interest won't be what it once was.

I think the Indians improved themselves, but not enough to get me excited about baseball anymore, which is a shame because baseball was always my favorite sport, even in the 70s when the Indians sucked annually.


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## BeachGaBulldog

Braves fan here. As long as we beat the Mets and Phillies I am happy, since I hate both of them.


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## mistermet

Uncle Charlie said:


> The AL East is going to be one fun division to watch this year, my team is the Red Sox by the way. So many things can play into our favor this year: Ortiz putting up better numbers than last year, Lowell staying healthy, Beckett pitching like the Beckett of old, a possible breakout season for Clay Buchholz, as well as the improved pitching depth (assuming a few of these guys pan out). Even with all the injury woes and shortcomings of last year, we still managed to squeeze out seven games in the ALCS. Only problem is that the Rays and Yankees are both improved from last year, so this should be exciting to watch.


It is! that division has 3 of the best teams in the AL at the moment (Red Sox, Rays and Yankees) and the Blue Jays aren't a bad team either (not great, but not bad). plus the O's are..slightly...improved, i guess (at least they've got a little young talent, finally). But it is going to be a dogfight between those top three teams. The Sox have that deep rotation, Yankees spent big $$$ on Sabathia and Tex (and stupidly on Burnett), and the Rays are definitely for real. last year wasn't a fluke and now they've got Pat Burrell who should be a good veteran RH bat for them. i'll definitely be keeping an eye on that division.


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## mistermet

BeachGaBulldog said:


> Braves fan here. As long as we beat the Mets and Phillies I am happy, since I hate both of them.


Hey, i share the exact same sentiment (except towards the Braves and Phils). Let's go Mets!


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## Under Pressure

Go Yankees!

Lineup
1. Damon 
2. Jeter
3. Tex
4. A-Rod
5. Nady
6. Matsui
7. Cano
8. Posada
9. Cabrera

Rotation
1. CC
2. Wang
3. Burnett
4. Joba
5. Pettitte

Yikes!


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## SocialDisaster

Go Tigers...but we are gonna suck again this year as we havn't addressed our joke pitching staff.

I hope the Yankees fall flat on their faces again and those fat contracts on Sabatthia and Texeira turn out to be busts..


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## bballfan

Hi guys I'm a huge baseball fan too...


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## mistermet

bballfan said:


> Hi guys I'm a huge baseball fan too...


awesome! welcome aboard! what's your favorite team?


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## bballfan

I like the Seattle Mariners


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## mistermet

SocialDisaster said:


> I hope the Yankees fall flat on their faces again and those fat contracts on Sabatthia and Texeira turn out to be busts..


I do too...maybe not for Teixeira, because i like him (and secretly was hoping the Mets would grab him and deal Delgado), but Sabathia and especially Burnett i think will be busts. i am almost going to guarantee it with Burnett. and the Yanks better hope Sabathia stays in shape. otherwise, it'll be trouble!


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## anonymid

What does Dan Haren have to do to get a win?

W-L: 0-3
IP: 19
ERA: 1.89
WHIP: 0.79
BAA: .182
K/BB: 17/3

The D-Backs have scored a _total_ of _one run_ in his three starts.


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## Zephyr

I'm sure someone like Joe Morgan would say he just doesn't know how to win. Haha.

Well, those games aside, offense has been up this year, which is too bad because I quite liked the lower scoring games we saw in 2008. The AL is averaging 5.22 runs per team per game, and hitting 267/344/438. I think at this time last year the league was on basing about 320 and slugging under 400. 

I've even heard speculation MLB has juiced the ball a bit to offset expected lower attendance due to the economy.


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## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> I'm sure someone like Joe Morgan would say he just doesn't know how to win. Haha.
> 
> Well, those games aside, offense has been up this year, which is too bad because I quite liked the lower scoring games we saw in 2008. The AL is averaging 5.22 runs per team per game, and hitting 267/344/438. I think at this time last year the league was on basing about 320 and slugging under 400.
> 
> I've even heard speculation MLB has juiced the ball a bit to offset expected lower attendance due to the economy.


I'm not ready to blame a juiced ball quite yet. Those AL averages would probably come down quite a bit if you took out Wang's starts for the Yankees. ;-)


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## lissette

socialdisaster said:


> go tigers...but we are gonna suck again this year as we havn't addressed our joke pitching staff.
> 
> I hope the yankees fall flat on their faces again and those fat contracts on sabatthia and texeira turn out to be busts..


go yankees!!!


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## kikachuck

Question for you Yankees fans: how the hell do you allow 22 runs in a major league game? 14 in one inning?


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## anonymid

kikachuck said:


> Question for you Yankees fans: how the hell do you allow 22 runs in a major league game? 14 in one inning?


That's twice in five years now that the Indians have scored 22 against the Yankees. Unreal.


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## anonymid

How about Zack Greinke of the Royals? 3-0 with an ERA of 0.00. He's allowed just 16 hits in 20 innings, while striking out 26 and walking just five. And he's done it against three pretty potent offensive teams, too (the Rangers, Indians, and White Sox). Zack has thrown 34 consecutive scoreless innings dating back to last season. And he's of course an SA "survivor," which makes it all the more sweet. I'll be rooting for him to win the Cy Young this year.


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## anonymid

For the second time this season, Johan Santana loses a game in which he gives up zero earned runs.


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## Sabreth

_Go Tigers...but we are gonna suck again this year as we havn't addressed our joke pitching staff.

_The Tigers haven't been nearly as bad as they were last year. Verlander is looking like his old self.

Did you see Porcello the other day? Absolutely lights out. I can't believe that the guy is only 20 years old.

The Tigers' hitting and bullpin could use some work, but other than that they're looking pretty good this year.

I'm not thinking World Series, but I think they might be able to get to the playoffs.

Of course them sweeping the Indians last night might be clouding my judgment


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## Zephyr

So yesterday, AL East teams went 3-0 against other division opponents. This follows a 3-2 Saturday, a 5-0 Sunday, and a 3-2 on Friday, for a combined weekend record of 14-4.

In terms of wins over .500, the divisions stack up thusly:

East +17

Central -15

West -2

Uh, where are you parity? Sheesh. We're at the point where almost all the good teams in the American League are stacked in one place.


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## kikachuck

Yeah, I noticed that too Zepyhr. The NL looks like it is shaping up to be pretty fierce, though, the Central and the East especially.


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## Zephyr

Last night there were 7 more homeruns at New Yankee Stadium. That makes 82 for the season so far in just 21 games, a pace of 316 dingers for the 81 game home schedule. In comparison, only 160 were hit in "old" Yankee Stadium last year. Batters are hitting a combined robust 280/365/497 with a homerun every 18.4 ABs. 

This is odd because the dimensions are supposedly exactly the same as the old place. I've heard theories of jet streams formed because of the differing shape of the upper stands. In any case, this is kind of a problem. We haven't got to the summer yet and the balls just won't stay in the yard there. You'd think they'd have to do something about it because right now as it stands it's a bit of a joke. What is the word to describe a park that plays worse than a bandbox?


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## anonymid

Joe Mauer. Wow.

(And that guy hitting behind him isn't doing half-bad, either.)


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## Cake

i think David Ortiz donated all his steroids to Joe Mauer


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## fern

...


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## anonymid

fern said:


> Knowing that he has social anxiety, does anybody else get excited when Zack Greinke does well? I do, I think its nice to see someone with SA being so successful.


I do too, absolutely.

You know a guy's having a great season when he gives up only one run in a complete-game win and his ERA actually goes _up_.


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## EagerMinnow84

fern said:


> Knowing that he has social anxiety, does anybody else get excited when Zack Greinke does well? I do, I think its nice to see someone with SA being so successful.


I do too.  That's the only time I bother to look at the Royals score.


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## fern

...


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## summerfun09

Go Detroit Tigers!!!


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## fern

...


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## Zephyr

In the deadball era, some spitball pitchers used to conspicuously lick the ball in full view of everyone right out there on the mound. A part of me wants to unban the spitter. We'd see some crazy stuff then.

Francisco Liriano hasn't been nearly the same since the TJ surgery. 2-7 this year with an ERA well north of 6. Opponents OPS of 875. A 42 average Game Score. Too bad.


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## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> Francisco Liriano hasn't been nearly the same since the TJ surgery. 2-7 this year with an ERA well north of 6. Opponents OPS of 875. A 42 average Game Score. Too bad.


That is too bad. He was actually very good last year after coming back in August (6-1 with a 2.74 ERA and a WHIP of 1.19), and I figured he was going to carry that into this season (I even thought he could be a dark-horse Cy Young candidate).

He was so incredible in '06. He's never going to be that dominant again, but hopefully he can get it turned around. He's gone less than five innings in five of his eleven starts so far. Yikes.


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## anonymid

As for the Greinke watch, Zack had his worst start of the year last night, getting a no-decision in a 7-4 loss to the White Sox:

7.0 IP, 3 ER, 8 H, 0 BB, 7 K

To repeat, that's his _worst_ start of the year. Most pitchers would take a line like that every time out. For the first time this year, his ERA is above 1.00. Still, after 11 starts, he leads the majors in wins, ERA, complete games, shutouts, innings pitched, and fewest HR/9 (still hasn't allowed a homer this year), and leads the AL in WHIP.


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## anonymid

Greinke had his first bad start of the season tonight, giving up seven runs (five earned) on nine hits over five innings in a 9-3 loss to the Blue Jays.


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## EagerMinnow84

I knew the Cubs getting Milton Bradley was a terrible awful no good idea. 

He went 0-6 in a game against Houston.

This is what he did today...
1. baserunning error
2. lost a ball in the sun
3. forgot how many outs there were in the inning so he caught the ball, held it for a few seconds then threw it in the bleachers. 

It is mid June and he is batting .215. I hope they let him go before his contract ends.


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## Zephyr

Gee, thanks Mets. That was helpful.

:roll


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## dax

lol


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## fern

...


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## pokeherpro

I'm also a big follower of Greinke's. I love watching him pitch. It's good he pitches in a city like KC, where they're used to losing and won't hate him if he screws up out there. If he were in Boston or New York, he might have quit for good instead of only missing 1 season. I am a Red Sox fan though so I'd love to have him on my team. Well, depends on who KC wants...


Red Sox, best team in baseball at this point of the season, yes or no? I say yes...obviously.


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## millenniumman75

WOOT! Joey Votto is back! :boogie :boogie :boogie
He also has anxiety and panic attacks,


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## pokeherpro

millenniumman75 said:


> WOOT! Joey Votto is back! :boogie :boogie :boogie
> He also has anxiety and panic attacks,


Yeah I read about that the other day. All due to his fathers death. That's three players that I know of now in MLB who deal with the day to day life with anxiety problems. Votto, Zack Greinke, and Dontrelle Willis.


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## pokeherpro

Did anyone else watch Joey Votto's interview in the dugout where he spoke to the media about his anxiety and depression. Gut-wrenching. I knew exactly how he was feeling and am really proud of him for how handled himself in an anxiety-provoking situation. You could tell he was nervous, not to mention he told the saddest story I've ever heard. It really hit home cause the way he described his dad, he could have been me describing my father. My dad taught me to play baseball when I was 3 years old and we played catch every night in the spring and summer. Litterally, every night, unless I had a game to play.
Anyways, hopefully Votto does well. He's got great numbers in the limited number of games he has played.


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## millenniumman75

pokeherpro said:


> Did anyone else watch Joey Votto's interview in the dugout where he spoke to the media about his anxiety and depression. Gut-wrenching. I knew exactly how he was feeling and am really proud of him for how handled himself in an anxiety-provoking situation. You could tell he was nervous, not to mention he told the saddest story I've ever heard. It really hit home cause the way he described his dad, he could have been me describing my father. My dad taught me to play baseball when I was 3 years old and we played catch every night in the spring and summer. Litterally, every night, unless I had a game to play.
> Anyways, hopefully Votto does well. He's got great numbers in the limited number of games he has played.


It hit me even harder because I lost my father in January 2007 - the company I work for was also bought out that day. It was truly an awful day. My birthday was this past weekend, and I cried for part of it while talking to my mom.


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## millenniumman75

fern said:


> Please tell me I'm not the only one who saw David Wright lick his bat in yesterday's Mets vs Marlins game. It was really funny, and also a little gross.


You gotta do whatcha gotta do :lol


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## fern

...


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## anonymid

John Smoltz makes his first start for the Red Sox tonight. He'll be taking Dice K's place in the rotation for now. I'm optimistic that it will be an upgrade.


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## pokeherpro

anonymid said:


> John Smoltz makes his first start for the Red Sox tonight. He'll be taking Dice K's place in the rotation for now. I'm optimistic that it will be an upgrade.


Been looking forward to this for a while now. If he is impressive, I think I might actually do a little dance. But I'm expecting something like 5 IP, 2 or 3 ER.


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## EagerMinnow84

This is my review of the Cubs thus far..


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## pokeherpro

Smoltz is getting lit up a little bit. I kinda had a feeling this would happen. I think he'll be okay. 20 years on the Braves, in the National League, starting a game for Boston has to feel kinda weird to him. He's made some good pitches tonight so I think he'll bounce back and be a good starter for the Red Sox this year. I hope!


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## anonymid

pokeherpro said:


> Smoltz is getting lit up a little bit. I kinda had a feeling this would happen. I think he'll be okay. 20 years on the Braves, in the National League, starting a game for Boston has to feel kinda weird to him. He's made some good pitches tonight so I think he'll bounce back and be a good starter for the Red Sox this year. I hope!


I wasn't able to watch the game, but it seems he settled down nicely after that rough first inning, and finished strong by striking out the side in the fifth. So I agree that he'll bounce back and be solid the rest of the way.


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## Zephyr

Of the 30 teams in MLB, four of the top five in run differential are in the AL East. That's hella crazy.


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## dax

Zephyr said:


> Of the 30 teams in MLB, four of the top five in run differential are in the AL East. That's hella crazy.


Gotta love the DH. So glad I'm an AL fan.


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## Zephyr

dax said:


> Gotta love the DH. So glad I'm an AL fan.


Nah, it really has nothing to do with the DH. I'm talking about run differential, not just runs scored. The amount of runs scored as opposed to given up. It's a great indicator of how good a team really is (and usually correlates well with winning percentage). Four of the top five teams in baseball in that regard are in one division. That's pretty crazy, but even more so for the unbalanced schedule, which pits teams in the same division against each other a lot. That would have the effect of pulling run differential toward equilibrium (because every run scored by one team is one given up by another).

And on that note, AL East teams went 5-0 tonight, outscoring opponents 37 to 7.

It shows up in win loss records too. Coming into today, in terms of wins over .500, the six divisions stacked up like this:

AL East +26
AL Central -15
AL West +6

NL East -23
NL Central -2
NL West +8


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## pokeherpro

Zephyr said:


> Nah, it really has nothing to do with the DH. I'm talking about run differential, not just runs scored. The amount of runs scored as opposed to given up. It's a great indicator of how good a team really is (and usually correlates well with winning percentage). Four of the top five teams in baseball in that regard are in one division. That's pretty crazy, but even more so for the unbalanced schedule, which pits teams in the same division against each other a lot. That would have the effect of pulling run differential toward equilibrium (because every run scored by one team is one given up by another).
> 
> And on that note, AL East teams went 5-0 tonight, outscoring opponents 37 to 7.
> 
> It shows up in win loss records too. Coming into today, in terms of wins over .500, the six divisions stacked up like this:
> 
> AL East +26
> AL Central -15
> AL West +6
> 
> NL East -23
> NL Central -2
> NL West +8


It's well known the AL East is the toughest division. It has been for this entire decade, save maybe one or two years.

The best part about this is you're right, the AL East has the best teams overall, and my team, Boston, is 20-8 against the other 4 teams in the division. The best of the best. 

Too bad all of this doesn't guarantee anything.


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## Zephyr

pokeherpro said:


> It's well known the AL East is the toughest division. It has been for this entire decade, save maybe one or two years.


Yes, but I like these numbers because they're real data. And I think they also show that the East is probably even tougher than most people realize. The dominance over the other divisions is even more impressive because all the intra-division play would pull records in each division closer to .500, and yet the AL East is collectively still way, way over.


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## pokeherpro

I'm nervous but excited. I'm picturing the 2009 World Series in October: Los Angeles Dodgers vs Boston Red Sox.
Maybe you'd have to be a Red Sox fan to understand it, but man it would be hard. I've been a Boston fan since I was 6 years old. Growing up, my favourite players were Roger Clemens(traitor, cheater) and Mo Vaughn. But since we only had 3 TV channels, all I was able to watch were Blue Jays games. I didn't really start to be able to follow the Red Sox until around 1998 when we got satellite. That's when I started to like this one player a lot, Manny Ramirez. When he signed with Boston, I wanted to start dancing. I'm not going to go into detail, sports fans already know the stories, but I still love Manny, even though he plays for LA now. So watching LA play against Boston in the World Series is going to rip my heart out. I'm 100% cheering for Boston in that scenerio, no question, but man I wish he was still with the Red Sox. I love Jason Bay, the player we got for him, and I wouldn't trade Bay for anyone else, but Manny is...Manny. Prettiest Home Run swing I have ever seen.

I'm also hoping and praying for a Yankees vs Red Sox A.L.C.S.

Boston will walk all over them....and even Yankee fans know it.


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## EagerMinnow84

Cardinals got Mark DeRosa.

This makes me hate being a Cubs fan even more.


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## fern

...


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## pokeherpro

Interleague play is finally overrrrrrrrrrrrrr. God I wish they'd get rid of that stuff. For some reason, I just do not care about the National League.


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## OptimisticPlatypus

The Cubbies are killin me! DeRosa on the Cards, with over 50 Ribbies and Holliday soon to grace the arches, oye ve. Send Soriano somewhere for anyone in MLB with a OBP over .200, please. Bring back Mark Grace and Ryne Sandberg, in their 50s, and our lineup would be invigorated. Milton Bradley makes a hell of a board game, but he can't hit in 2009, sorry Milty.


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## pokeherpro

Smoltz looked great tonight. Too bad it started raining and there was a long delay. He deserved the W tonight but won't get it cause he didn't pitch long enough. Booo.


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## pokeherpro

...I can't believe that just happened. Red Sox up 10-1 against Baltimore, it starts raining, 1 hour 11 minute rain delay, game starts up again and the Orioles score 10 runs to win the game 11-10. Unbelievable. The last time the Red Sox blew a lead like that was 1989. Not even the bag of weed on my desk could make me smile right now. Booo.


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## Zephyr

Mets trade for Francoeur???

????


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## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> Mets trade for Francoeur???
> 
> ????


Just what the Mets' ailing offense needs, a guy with an OPS+ of 68. Minaya must be _trying_ to get fired at this point. Glad I'm not a Mets fan.


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## Oppilolik

fern said:


> Believe it or not there is a small community of MLB fans in Great Britain, and of course most of them support the Red Sox. Anyway, I just thought these were interesting:
> 
> http://http://www.baseballfan.co.uk/
> 
> http://www.baseballgb.co.uk/


I had no idea there was a following over here, didn't even know we had a national league (although to be fair, it's pretty much a London league). I tried to watch a game on ESPN a few weeks back, but just couldn't get into it, took forever for someone to hit a ball properly!


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## Zephyr

anonymid said:


> Just what the Mets' ailing offense needs, a guy with an OPS+ of 68. Minaya must be _trying_ to get fired at this point. Glad I'm not a Mets fan.


I notice the trade is getting lambasted pretty good in the online communities.

At one point he had some power. But even the year he hit 29 hr he on based only 293 with 87 OPS+, and has only hit 16 hr since the beginning of last year. He's a corner outfielder with a .308 career obp.

I guess his young age is the only saving grace here, but his strike zone judgement is so poor I can't see him magically turning his career around.


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## sb408

SF Giants fan here... Sanchez's no hitter last night was crazy


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## fern

...


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## fern

...


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## anonymid

Dan Haren had an unreal first half. 226 ERA+, 0.808 WHIP, 8.06 K/BB . . . if he sustains those numbers in the second half, that's a Pedro Martinez / Greg Maddux kind of season.


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## fern

...


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## pokeherpro

So...who is going to win the World Series? I dont see anyone beating Boston...but I'm biased.
I guess this question would be better to ask after the trade deadline. If the Yankees get Roy Halladay, I'm going to cry...


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## sweetpeazz

I hope Yankees get Roy Halladay but I think he going west probably the Angels. I wonder how Pedro going to be for Phillies. It would be kinda funny if he is final nail in the coffin for the Mets's season


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## fern

...


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## pokeherpro

Man...Roy Halladay is basically sleep-walking through one of the best lineups in baseball...and it's my favourite team. 

Halladay needs to get traded to Boston...


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## anonymid

pokeherpro said:


> Man...Roy Halladay is basically sleep-walking through one of the best lineups in baseball...and it's my favourite team.
> 
> Halladay needs to get traded to Boston...


Getting Halladay would be great, but I can live as long as the Yankees don't get him. Same way I felt when Santana was on the market a couple years ago.


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## sweetpeazz

The big question where will Halladay end up or his going end staying with the Jays. I read today in the NY Daily News that Pirates with interested in him. I thought he would want to go to potential championship team. I would love Yankees to get him but I think the price is too high. He is free agent next year anyway. I do not want Red Sox, Rays, or Angels to get him.


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## Zephyr

pokeherpro said:


> Man...Roy Halladay is basically sleep-walking through one of the best lineups in baseball...and it's my favourite team.
> 
> Halladay needs to get traded to Boston...


I was at the game today. Halladay is a beast.

If he goes, I don't think it's within the division. I hope not anyway. It's bad enough having to deal with New York and Boston every year; it would be a kick in the gut to have the Jays best and most popular player go there. This is one player I hope they don't get their grubby hands on. Alas, baseball being what it is, I'm sure that's what'll happen. If not now, then after 2010.


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## pokeherpro

I think the Jays will trade him to the team that offers the best deal. If the Red Sox offer the best deal, I'd take it if I were Toronto because if they do trade him, they're not looking to be competitive for another 4-5 years and by that time, Halladay won't be the best pitcher in baseball.
However, I also kinda think Toronto would be dumb to trade him. Everyone seems to forget that the Jays projected #2 and #3 starters have been out all year. Shawn Marcum and Dustin McGowen were awesome in 2008. If Toronto can have a rotation in 2010 of Halladay-Marcum-McGowen-Romero and a 5th starter, they'd be pretty good.

If he goes to the Yankees, and they win the World Series...I might cry myself to sleep everynight from October til March.


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## anonymid

Man, Smoltz was looking great tonight. Now he gives up three HRs in the 6th.


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## Zephyr

Blue Jays in July.

Runs scored = 103
Runs allowed = 96

Record: 8-15

I've never seen anything like it. And I thought _last _year was bad with the close losses. My sanity is slipping.


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## anonymid

Well, Big Papi's legend took a big hit today. I'm disappointed, but I can't say I'm the least bit surprised.


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## anonymid

Smoltz gave up five runs in a win last night. Through seven starts he's 2-4 with a 7.12 ERA and no quality starts, but there's good reason to be patient with him. His strikeout and walk rates are very good (30K/5BB in 36 2/3 IP), and with a BABIP of .370 despite a line-drive rate of just 16%, his high hit rate (12.3/9IP) seems more a case of bad luck than anything else. He says he can still pitch, and I believe him.


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## theconstant

anonymid said:


> Smoltz gave up five runs in a win last night. Through seven starts he's 2-4 with a 7.12 ERA and no quality starts, but there's good reason to be patient with him. His strikeout and walk rates are very good (30K/5BB in 36 2/3 IP), and with a BABIP of .370 despite a line-drive rate of just 16%, his high hit rate (12.3/9IP) seems more a case of bad luck than anything else. He says he can still pitch, and I believe him.


I agree. I'd like to see the Cardinals (another win tonight!) take a flier on him for the bullpen. I'm sure a lot of teams would give him a chance. And who knows, maybe being back in the National League would do him some good as well.


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## Zephyr

That Joe Mauer guy is kind of good.

He must be the best player in the AL, especially since that 1.064 OPS is out of the catcher's spot. You would think the MVP vote would be unaminous. But then, some writers don't vote for players on non-contending/"small market" teams.


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## pokeherpro

Zephyr said:


> That Joe Mauer guy is kind of good.
> 
> He must be the best player in the AL, especially since that 1.064 OPS is out of the catcher's spot. You would think the MVP vote would be unaminous. But then, some writers don't vote for players on non-contending/"small market" teams.


That's not true. His own team mate, Justin Morneau, won the MVP in 2006 over Derek Jeter and David Ortiz. Jeter hit .343 with 97 RBI, while Ortiz hit 54 HR, 137 RBI, with a 1.049 OPS. Morneau carried that team to the playoffs though. Mauer won't be doing that and I dunno how you can be MVP when your team is going to miss the playoffs, with or without you.
Still, it'd be hard for me to see a line of .373, 25 HR, 78 RBI, 1.064 OPS, from a catcher no less, and not name him the MVP.
It'll likely go to Teixeira, unfortunately.


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## Zephyr

pokeherpro said:


> That's not true. His own team mate, Justin Morneau, won the MVP in 2006 over Derek Jeter and David Ortiz. Jeter hit .343 with 97 RBI, while Ortiz hit 54 HR, 137 RBI, with a 1.049 OPS. Morneau carried that team to the playoffs though. Mauer won't be doing that and I dunno how you can be MVP when your team is going to miss the playoffs, with or without you.
> Still, it'd be hard for me to see a line of .373, 25 HR, 78 RBI, 1.064 OPS, from a catcher no less, and not name him the MVP.
> It'll likely go to Teixeira, unfortunately.


Yeah, but the 2006 Twins won 96 games, and their division.

The problem is there's no general, consistent definition of what an MVP is supposed to be. You displayed an example of that in your post.

The thinking goes like this: How can he be MVP when his team wasn't even a contender!? But then he's such a great player!! Nobody knows what they're supposed to vote for.


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## anonymid

Personally I prefer to see the MVP award go to the individual player who had the best season, regardless of how his team finishes. I've never liked the idea of treating the MVP as a team award, in baseball or any other sport. There already are team awards: they're called division titles, league championships, and the World Series championship. Use the MVP award to honor the best individual. 

As for Mauer, any guy who wins the BA/OBP/SLG triple crown while playing a premium defensive position like catcher ought to be a no-brainer MVP (as of this moment, Mauer leads in BA by 13 points, OBP by 25, and SLG by 31).

But I have this uncomfortable feeling that if the Yankees win the AL East (which it looks like they probably will), Teixeira is going to be the MVP if he wins the RBI crown (or even if he just comes close). Remember that when Morneau won in '06, he was an RBI-champ first baseman playing for a division winner. And that was for a small-market team like the Twins. Doing the same thing for a team like the Yankees is going to play awfully well in the MVP balloting.

I also think a lot of voters are going to reason, "well, the Yankees missed the playoffs for the first time in forever last year, they bring in Teixeira, he has a great year, and now they're a great team again: so, he's the MVP."

EDIT: Correction, Morneau did not win the AL RBI crown in '06; he finished second. In fact, the only thing he led the league in that year was sacrifice flies. Incidentally, Mauer that year had a slightly better OPS, won the batting title, and of course played a much more demanding defensive position. You'd think if the MVP was going to come from the Twins that year, it should have been him.


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## pokeherpro

anonymid said:


> Personally I prefer to see the MVP award go to the individual player who had the best season, regardless of how his team finishes. I've never liked the idea of treating the MVP as a team award, in baseball or any other sport. There already are team awards: they're called division titles, league championships, and the World Series championship. Use the MVP award to honor the best individual.
> 
> As for Mauer, any guy who wins the BA/OBP/SLG triple crown while playing a premium defensive position like catcher ought to be a no-brainer MVP (as of this moment, Mauer leads in BA by 13 points, OBP by 25, and SLG by 31).
> 
> But I have this uncomfortable feeling that if the Yankees win the AL East (which it looks like they probably will), Teixeira is going to be the MVP if he wins the RBI crown (or even if he just comes close). Remember that when Morneau won in '06, he was an RBI-champ first baseman playing for a division winner. And that was for a small-market team like the Twins. Doing the same thing for a team like the Yankees is going to play awfully well in the MVP balloting.
> 
> I also think a lot of voters are going to reason, "well, the Yankees missed the playoffs for the first time in forever last year, they bring in Teixeira, he has a great year, and now they're a great team again: so, he's the MVP."
> 
> EDIT: Correction, Morneau did not win the AL RBI crown in '06; he finished second. In fact, the only thing he led the league in that year was sacrifice flies. Incidentally, Mauer that year had a slightly better OPS, won the batting title, and of course played a much more demanding defensive position. You'd think if the MVP was going to come from the Twins that year, it should have been him.


I remember that season and Morneau carried that team on his back. Some things the numbers don't tell you is how important each hit, home run, rbi, etc individually. If I remember correctly, and thats not a given cause I've smoked a lot of weed since 2006, Morneau had a ton of clutch hits that year.

And I definitely think Mauer should win it this year, God knows I hate the Yankees. Im just saying Morneau won it in 2006 because the Twins made the playoffs. They wont this year and thats going to be a knock on Mauer, fair or not. Another guy we should be talking about is Aaron Hill from the Jays. Check his numbers.


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## IHeartSteveMcQueen

Kovalev, qui d'autre?


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## anonymid

Wandy Rodriguez of the Astros is very quietly having an excellent season. He now has 17 starts where he's gone 6+ IP and allowed 0 or 1 ER. That's more such starts than Cain (15), Wainwright (13), Lincecum (12), Haren (12), or Carpenter (9).


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## Zephyr

Yeah, but his name being 'Wandy' is a bit of a drawback. Heh.

To be honest, these days I have a hard time getting excited about basically any NL pitcher. I'm sure a number of them are very nice and good, but it's almost like they have to survive in the AL before I can really respect them. I've seen too many pitchers look like chumps in the big boy league and then go to the other league and look like world beaters. It's so much easier there.


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## anonymid

Can't argue with you there. Lincecum I think is legit and would be dominant in the AL as well, but yeah, the only other NL pitchers I would feel safe saying that about are guys who have already been there and done that, like Johan Santana and Cliff Lee. We already saw what a guy like C.C. Sabathia could do in half a season in the NL; I can only imagine what kind of numbers a Roy Halladay would put up.


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## fern

...


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## pokeherpro

Holy ****! Daisuke Matsuzaka, back from the dead! Good to see ya buddy! We need ya if we're going to beat New York. Man, that was fun to watch. That is the best hitting lineup in baseball he just shut down, in case anyone noticed. Also Anaheim is likely Boston's ALDS opponent. Yes!
Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-Matsuzaka...Bard, Wagner, Papelbon...Ellsbury, Pedroia, Martinez, Youkilis, Bay, Big Papi, Drew...we're golden...


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## pokeherpro

Right as I typed that, JD Drew hit a triple haha.


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## pokeherpro

Anyone see the Yanks/Jays brawl? Kinda funny. It overshadowed the fact that my Red Sox have won 6 straight and are going to take the Yankees to 7 games in the ALCS...what happens after that is anyone's guess. Two good teams. I love epic series. 2004 was amazing and so was 2003 when I think about it.


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## millenniumman75

My Redlegs have been eliminated from the postseason already.

April 5, 2010 is Opening Day!


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## Strombidae

MLB thread.. ah I like.

Yankee fan here, so screw all you Boston fans. If you couldn't give NL MVP to Pujols, who would you hand it to? I think I might say Hanley.


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## anonymid

Yeah, Hanley would be a good choice. Utley wouldn't be bad, either. Prince Fielder is having an excellent season as well.


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## anonymid

The Twins are now just two games behind the Tigers after beating Verlander yesterday. I'd love to see the Twins make the postseason, but they'd pretty much be walking right into a three-game sweep by the Yankees. Minnesota's starting rotation would have to be one of the least intimidating staffs ever to make the postseason. Quite a reversal of the Twins' usual postseason teams, which have featured very strong starting pitching but virtually no offense. Now the strength is the lineup, which includes three of the top ten in the AL in OPS+ (Mauer, Kubel, and Morneau--though Morneau is now out for the season) and an excellent leadoff man in Denard Span. The bullpen is also pretty strong, as usual, but that wouldn't mean much against a Yankees lineup that would be teeing off against the Twins' starters.

That of course is getting way ahead of things. The Tigers would have much better chance of beating the Yankees, but for now, I can't help but keep rooting for the Twins.


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## Zephyr

Well, they lost a big game today.

I can't help but think of the AL Central winner as being like the smartest kid in the dumb class....


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## anonymid

Just learned that I'll be going to the Twins-White Sox game at U.S. Cellular Field tomorrow night (as a day-early birthday present from my roommate). Go Twins!


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## Zephyr

anonymid said:


> Just learned that I'll be going to the Twins-White Sox game at U.S. Cellular Field tomorrow night (as a day-early birthday present from my roommate). Go Twins!


Cool! Throw a banana peel at Rios, would you?

Err, you're probably already there...


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## fern

...


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## Strombidae

Chuckled myself.

Amazing comeback by the Royals last night.


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## Zephyr

You know, everyone has gone on about Verlander and Greinke and whatnot for the Cy Young, but Felix Hernandez has to be considered a very strong contender. 17-5 now, second in the AL in ERA and opponents OPS. He's also done this for a team that scores no runs.

After a few years of being merely very good, he's taken a huge step forward this season and fulfilled his incredible potential. And somewhat amazingly he's still only 23.


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## anonymid

Felix is only 23? That's amazing; somehow it seems like he's been around forever.

Anyway, Greinke has got to be considered a lock for the CYA at this point, though Felix should be a lock for second. After that, you've got a group of Sabathia, Verlander, Halladay, Jon Lester, and others . . . but there really should be no debate about Greinke and King Felix going 1-2.

The only award that's still up for grabs as far as I'm concerned is the NL Cy Young. Carpenter, Lincecum, and Wainwright would all be plausible winners. Dan Haren probably deserves some love, too, with a WHIP under 1.00 and a K/BB over 6.00 (both leading the league), but he's only seventh in ERA at this point. Matt Cain has fallen off a bit, too, after being right up there with those other guys for most of the season.


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## Zephyr

Well if last night was Roy Halladay's last game in Toronto has a Blue Jay, he certainly went out in a great way - complete game shutout style. Wouldn't have it any other way.



anonymid said:


> Felix is only 23? That's amazing; somehow it seems like he's been around forever.


Another player like that is Delmon Young. Heralded prospect, then part of a big trade, been around for years it seems, and yet this is also his age 23 season. Just turned 24 less than two weeks ago.

I remember when he came up with Tampa Bay at the end of the 2006 season, and he was one of those players the ball seemed to jump off his bat in a special way. There was a three game series in Toronto September 15-17 and he went 7 for 13 with three doubles and a homerun. He ended with a 317/336/476 slash line in 131 plate appearances as a 20 year old (actually just turned 21 that Sept). And...that's still the best line he's put up. So far, despite being a .288 career hitter, I'd classify him as almost a total bust, as compared to what everyone thought he'd be by now. He's never met a pitch he didn't like to hack at.


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## anonymid

Yeah, Young looks like a bust. The Twins traded Jason Bartlett and Matt Garza for Young and Brendan Harris. Good lord, does that trade look more and more horrible by the minute. Bartlett's hitting .318/.383/.492, and Garza would be the ace of a Twins staff that's basically a bunch of #4 starters right now. Harris, after hitting a solid .286/.343/.434 for the Rays in '07, has dropped about 50 points of OPS in each of his two years with the Twins.


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## Zephyr

Adam Lind hit homeruns 33, 34, and 35 last night. Somewhat lost in the turmoil of the Jays season, Lind has emerged as one heck of a hitter. This was the year that I thought was going to be his make or break season; he had a pretty good minor league track record and had a few kicks at the can at the big league level, but could never consistently stick. I was "cautiously optimistic" but even I didn't think he'd reach this level. 

35 HR, 114 RBI, .305/.370/.562 and 142 OPS+

He always had the potential to hit for a high average, but I didn't know if the power and walks would ever be adequate for a LF/DH type. One thing that's really improved is his walk rate; before this season he had walked in just 5.1% of his career plate appearances. This year that's up to 8.9%, which is league average. 

Something people might find surprising is Lind is 3rd in the AL in total bases, and 2nd in extra base hits.


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## Strombidae

Lind is a pretty nice player. Good for him this season. I was hoping Toronto would keep pace with the Yankees this year since I love their head-to-head matchups with us (well, I like facing the Red Sox more when we kick the crap out of them)

So, NL is sealed for our postseason so far.

We know..

ALDS: Angels (West) vs. Red Sox (Wildcard) and Yankees (East) vs. Twins or Tigers (Central)
NLDS: Cardinals (Central) vs. Dodgers OR Rockies (West) and Phillies vs. Dodgers OR Rockies (Wild Card)

Interesting races going on. Colorado needs to sweep the Dodgers to win the West and put LA in the Wild Card, which would probably be the most humiliating upset in baseball history next to the Mets 2007 collapse.

I think the Tigers will be clinching soon, but we'll see..


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## Zephyr

Strombidae said:


> I think the Tigers will be clinching soon, but we'll see..


Eh, doesn't look like it. They've been in first place since May 10, and led by 7 full games as late as Sept 6, and now they have to win a one game playoff on the road to get in. They had a collapse like this a few years ago and ended up in second place on the last day of the season, but got into the postseason via the wildcard.


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## Strombidae

I spoke four days too soon.

Well, here we go. Twins with the Metrodome (major) advantage, Tigers with a struggling Miguel Cabrera... I guess I'll be seeing the Twins face my Yankees in the playoffs.

.. Now I'm curious, has a team been swept in the Season series AND they still met in the playoffs and got swept?


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## EagerMinnow84

I am glad I am not a fan of the Twins or Tigers. I wouldn't be able to handle the pressure! 

Although, I am rooting for the Twins.


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## Zephyr

Holy **** was that ever a crazy game last night. Back and forth and back and forth, runners thrown out at home plate, clutch hits and strikeouts, and every pitch pressure-packed. A lot of weird umpiring and general sloppiness of play, but oh so exciting. Just when it looked like one team was done, the other would come back, and just when it looked like one would win it, the other would escape. If I had a vested interest in the outcome I would have been reduced to a quivering mass of jello.

Congratulations to the Twins. They extend their season by at least three games.


----------



## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> Holy **** was that ever a game. That was one of the most thrilling I've seen in recent years; back and forth and back and forth, runners thrown out at home plate, clutch hits and strikeouts, and every pitch pressure-packed. Neither of those teams are great but they put on a game for the ages. Just when it looked like one team was done, the other would come back, and just when it looked like one would win it, the other would escape. If I had a vested interest in the outcome I would have been reduced to a quivering mass of jello.
> 
> Congratulations to the Twins. They extend their season by at least three games.


We don't have cable, so I wasn't able to watch the game, unfortunately. Even just following the box score and play-by-play online was pretty rivetting, though.

I'll be rooting like crazy for the Twins to beat the Yankees, but I won't be expecting much. I just don't know how the Twins' starters are going to keep the Yankees from scoring. When your best pitcher is a low-strikeout, high-contact guy like Blackburn, that spells trouble against Jeter, A-Rod, Tex, et. al. Their best pitchers are in the bullpen (Mijares, Guerrier, and Nathan), but that won't be worth much if the starters are getting tagged for five or six runs.

As for the Twins' lineup, it's been formidable at the top, even without Morneau: Span, Cabrera, Mauer, Kubel, Cuddyer. But after those guys, it's a pretty atrocious dropoff. Matt Tolbert? Nick Punto? (I'll give Delmon Young a temporary pass, since he's had a lot of clutch hits down the stretch, but I'm not high on him, either, as we've already discussed).

So, I'll predict Yankees in three. It would be nice to see the Twins win at least one game, but I wouldn't bet on it.


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## fern

...


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## Zephyr

No Yankees, sick of them. No Red Sox, sick of them. Phillies just won it last year. I don't really care too much either way about the other teams. The playoffs this year set up to be very boring - once Minnesota is eliminated, you'll have the three highest payroll teams in the AL, the same three we see over and over and over anyway. Yawn. I confess I can't get into the NL.


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## anonymid

fern said:


> What teams do you want to see in the World Series?


I'm a fan of the Red Sox and the Twins, so I'd like to see either of those two make it out of the AL. If it does end up being the Yankees, though, at least it's fun to root against them, so I'd be happy to see any of the NL teams take them out. '01 and '03 were satisfying in that way at least. Heck, maybe the Rockies can do it this time, and become the third of the three recent NL expansion teams to beat the Yankees in the World Series this decade.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Phillies repeat, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Cardinals or Dodgers win, either. Angels-Rockies would be the least interesting WS matchup to me. But that's probably just "East Coast bias" (which remains strong in me even though I'm in the Midwest now).


----------



## Zephyr

St. Louis really blew that one yesterday...


----------



## Zephyr

Wooo, Boston's out after punting a late lead at home. That's good.

Papelbon gets lit up. That's even better.


----------



## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> Wooo, Boston's out after punting a late lead at home. That's good.
> 
> Papelbon gets lit up. That's even better.


Yuck, I guess I should be glad I wasn't able to watch that one.

Oh well, the Twins are still alive--at least for another hour or so, anyway. I see that so far tonight Carl Pavano has thrown six-plus innings against the Yankees. That's already got to be more innings than he ever threw _for_ them, right?


----------



## EagerMinnow84

Cardinals, Red Sox and Twins all swept. Yikes. The same thing happened last year.

The Cardinals got swept by the same team that swept the Cubs last postseason. Hopefully the Dodgers won't make it to the playoffs next year. 0


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## pokeherpro

As a Red Sox fan...gotta tip the cap to Anaheim. I'm totally on that bandwagon now. Got nothing but respect for their organization. I had a feeling they were due and they clearly wanted it more and they earned it. They have to beat New York now..pleaseeeee beat New York. The Yankees can NOT win the World Series...


----------



## anonymid

And if the Angels aren't able to beat the Yankees, it would be pretty sweet to see the other LA team do it.


----------



## pokeherpro

anonymid said:


> And if the Angels aren't able to beat the Yankees, it would be pretty sweet to see the other LA team do it.


Yes. I still love Manny, believe it or not...I don't give a **** about his problems with management there and privacy. Whatever. He hit bombs, lots of them, at important times, for my favourite team, over an 8 year period. His game winning home-run against Anaheim in the 2007 ALDS was the prettiest swing I've ever seen in my life. And it'd be super sweet to see Joe Torre beat New York...he has a Yankee killer, if this scenerio happens...Manny murders the Yanks.


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## anonymid

pokeherpro said:


> Yes. I still love Manny, believe it or not.


Me too, actually. Even when he was supposedly taking games off for the Red Sox toward the end of his time in Boston, he was still an insanely productive hitter, as he always was and still is. I would love to see Manny and Torre beat the Yankees in the World Series.


----------



## pokeherpro

anonymid said:


> Me too, actually. Even when he was supposedly taking games off for the Red Sox toward the end of his time in Boston, he was still an insanely productive hitter, as he always was and still is. I would love to see Manny and Torre beat the Yankees in the World Series.


That actually did make me angry, when he was doing that, but only because of what the situation was. The Red Sox were slumping, Manny was jogging out ground balls and at the same time wanting to be traded so the final 2 option years of his contract would be voided. He was still hitting well but the effort wasn't there and Boston, like Chicago and Detroit and cities like that, demand effort, at the very least. If the team was winning, it wouldn't have been a problem, like it wasn't in years past but we were falling way behind the Rays in the division race.


----------



## Zephyr

Whoa, Phillies just got a two out, two run walk off double to pull off a 5-4 win. They're up three games to one. Earlier the Angels won in extras to get back in that series down 2-1. I thought before the LCS started it would wind up NY vs. Philadelphia in the end.


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## pokeherpro

It's never been so easy to cheer for the team that directly knocked my team out of the playoffs. Go Anaheim! You guys _*have*_ to beat New York.
Plus, it'd be nice to see how angry Fox gets when it's an Angels/Phillies World Series, instead of a Yankees/Dodgers World Series.


----------



## anonymid

pokeherpro said:


> It's never been so easy to cheer for the team that directly knocked my team out of the playoffs. Go Anaheim! You guys _*have*_ to beat New York.
> Plus, it'd be nice to see how angry Fox gets when it's an Angels/Phillies World Series, instead of a Yankees/Dodgers World Series.


Weirdly, I'm finding myself sort of conflicted about the ALCS. Instinctively, as a Red Sox fan, I of course always root against the Yankees, but I must admit that I'd have a lot more fun watching the World Series if the Yankees are in it rather than the Angels. If it's the Angels against either the Phillies or the Dodgers, I just won't have a rooting interest; it would be hard for me to get excited. But seeing the Yankees lose the World Series is one of the most enjoyable things in sports--more enjoyable, even, than seeing them lose the ALCS. I think I would really be into a Yankees-Phillies or Yankees-Dodgers series.


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## pokeherpro

I don't want to even chance the Yanks winning. I'm not sure the Phillies can beat New York, but maybe they can if they throw Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee 4 of the 7 possible games. Besides, with the whole Nick Adenhart death, it'd be great to see the Angels pull it off.


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## Zephyr

If this hasn't been the worst ever postseason for umpiring, I don't want to know what is. I'm still stunned by some of the blown calls we've seen.


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## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> If this hasn't been the worst ever postseason for umpiring, I don't want to know what is. I'm still stunned by some of the blown calls we've seen.


Yeah, it's been terrible. I have a feeling that we're going to see some sort of replay system (beyond just the home run calls) sooner rather than later. Or at least I hope so.


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## Zephyr

Apparently, two runners can be clearly off base, both be tagged with a live ball, and only one of them be out. Who knew?

With that play in the last Angels/Yankees game, you'd think at least one of the umpires would have seen Cano off the bag. Why he was standing off third I have no idea, but someone must have seen it. I didn't know why McClelland didn't.


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## anonymid

Yeah, I honestly don't think I've ever seen a worse call in a baseball game than that one. It's one thing if umps blow a few close calls at the bases here and there, but when they demonstrate that they're capable of blowing a call like that, then you know you really need replay.


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## outcast69

All I can say is things got crazy here last night;it was deja vu all over again.They even greased the poles downtown to keep people from climbing them.GO FIGHTIN PHILLIES!!!


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## pokeherpro

Come on Philly. You're my last hope. Unless the Angels pull off a complete miracle. They're gunna need the real "Angels in the outfield". 
Sadly, I see a World Series of 4 games to 2, for the Yankees.
I guess I knew deep down they'd win it again eventually. It was only a matter of time. They finally got the right combination of guys to win it.
I hope I'm wrong. I would enjoy nothing more than to see Hamels/Lee/Pedro shut down the Yanks but...it ain't happening.


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## Zephyr

Angels made a lot of mistakes in the ALCS. I thought Minnesota committed an atrocious number of baserunning blunders, but I think LA topped it. Add in all the fielding errors and they didn't give themselves much of a chance.

It's weird that baseball will be going into November this year.


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## anonymid

Nothing much needs to be said about the Angels. When two batters in a row are trying to make an out, and you can't grant either of them their wish, you don't deserve to play in the World Series. Go Phillies!


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## Tungsten

I'm surprised the Phillies are starting Pedro Martinez in game 2. He's looked good this year, but I'm still not convinced that he's anything close to the old Pedro. 

It should be a good series. Any time you have the defending champs against the team that is (on paper) the best team in baseball it should be interesting. I'll say Yankees in 6.


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## anonymid

Tungsten said:


> I'm surprised the Phillies are starting Pedro Martinez in game 2. He's looked good this year, but I'm still not convinced that he's anything close to the old Pedro.


Well, I don't know that anyone is pretending he's anything close to the old Pedro. The old Pedro, at his peak, was arguably the greatest starting pitcher in baseball history. I think the bigger issue is that Hamels hasn't looked like last year's Hamels--otherwise Lee-Hamels in Yankee Stadium would be a no-brainer. Pedro probably earned the start with his performance against the Dodgers. I won't be surprised at all if the Yankees hit him hard--but then, the Yankees' starters after CC are question marks, too, so I don't think the Phillies are at a big disadvantage there.

The only really huge difference between these two teams is in the bullpen. If that's what it comes down to, the Phillies are in trouble. Perhaps in that respect, then, there's a little more pressure on Philly's starters, including Pedro.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this series. Lee-Sabathia has all the makings of an outstanding pitching duel. I wonder how Indians fans must feel about that . . .


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## Zephyr

anonymid said:


> Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this series. Lee-Sabathia has all the makings of an outstanding pitching duel. I wonder how Indians fans must feel about that . . .


I checked out Lee's stats today, because last I remember he was dominating in the NL. After the trade Lee went 5-0, 0.68 ERA in his first five starts with Philadelphia, with an opponents OPS of .443 and average Game Score 75. Imagine my surprise when seeing his final numbers there were only 7-4, 3.39. In his last seven starts he pitched to a 6.13 ERA, .895 OPS, including 7 homeruns in 39.2 innings. He had some ugly games in there.


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## fern

...


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## anonymid

Zephyr said:


> I checked out Lee's stats today, because last I remember he was dominating in the NL. After the trade Lee went 5-0, 0.68 ERA in his first five starts with Philadelphia, with an opponents OPS of .443 and average Game Score 75. Imagine my surprise when seeing his final numbers there were only 7-4, 3.39. In his last seven starts he pitched to a 6.13 ERA, .895 OPS, including 7 homeruns in 39.2 innings. He had some ugly games in there.


Yeah. He's been dominant in the postseason, though. Sabathia had a number of ugly starts during the regular season as well; neither guy is invincible. Especially given how potent these two lineups are, and the park they'll be playing in, I suppose a 1-0 pitcher's duel is a bit unlikely. I'd love to see it happen, though; I always love seeing great pitching beat great hitting.


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## Tungsten

The starting pitching has been pretty awesome so far. Burnett and Pedro were both much better than I expected the other night. I don't like the Phillies and I don't have a rooting interest in the series this year, but I found myself rooting for Pedro in that game.
Why the heck did Girardi bench Posada and Swisher in game 2? That was pretty strange. I'm all for shuffling the lineup to get the best matchup, but bringing in two mediocre right-handers to start against Pedro seems pretty foolish.


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## Zephyr

Tungsten said:


> Why the heck did Girardi bench Posada and Swisher in game 2? That was pretty strange. I'm all for shuffling the lineup to get the best matchup, but bringing in two mediocre right-handers to start against Pedro seems pretty foolish.


Molina was going to be Burnett's personal catcher this postseason I think because of the defense (eg wild pitch) factor. Swisher has just been bad.


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## mistermet

nice to see my original thread has lasted all these months!

so my Mets were absolutely wretched this season. you could blame it partly on the injuries (and oh boy, were there plenty) but this team was poorly conceived from the beginning. Murphy the starter in LF? ugh. Pelfrey as the #2 in the rotation? yikes! 3 years 36 million to Ollie the enigma? yuck. i just hope that they make some smart moves (for once) and bring in some good team players who are legit upgrades. if everybody stays healthy and plays up to their standards (i'm looking at you Jose Reyes and David Wright), this team could be an 85 win team as constructed, so some smart acquisitions would really push them over the edge (a slugger in LF, a real #2 pitcher, possibly a 1B to platoon or supplant Murphy till Ike Davis is ready and some BP help).

oh and this world series isn't making life any better for me. so hard to choose between the yanks and phils as a met fan. either way, mets fans lose here...so i'd much rather see Philly lose, since we have to play them 20 times a year. at least yankee fans have a reason to be pompous (26 rings compared to 2 for the Phils).


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## Zephyr

Well that about wraps it up for the Phillies. Only so much you can do against $200 million, though.


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## anonymid

Brad Lidge and Cole Hamels stink this year. I don't think there's much more to it than that. Otherwise, this would have been a competitive series.


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## EagerMinnow84

2 outs away again and the Yankees are threatening... 



Wow. They are lucky. Their bullpen really sucks this season. I am curious to see if Cole Hamels would pitch in Game 7 (if there is one). "I can't wait till this season is over..." Shut your mouth or return your millions of dollars.


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## anonymid

Looks like the formula for a Phillies win is two homers from Chase Utley in a Cliff Lee start: so, if there's a Game 7, maybe they should start Lee (it would be his normal bullpen throw-day anyway) even if it's just to let him go once through order (two or three innings). And Sabathia, who's given up three of Utley's five homers, would be starting for the Yankees . . . 

In the meantime, I'm really excited to see what Pedro can do in Game 6. He was very good in Game 2; Burnett simply outpitched him. Pedro probably has the edge this time, going against a short-rest Pettitte . . .


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## Tungsten

The Phils are hanging in there. It's good to see a competitive World Series for once. It's been so long since the series has even gone to a game 6.


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## cmed

Tim Lincecum caught with marijuana. I liked him a lot, but I think I like him even more now.

No roids for Timmy, just ganja.


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## mistermet

so the offseason begins and the hot stove is starting to heat up! i love this time of year...obviously it isn't as fun as when the games are played, but i love all of the optimism of trade rumors and potential free agent signings and such. my team's supposedly looking at Matt Holliday, who i think would be a great pickup in LF. other than that, i am lukewarm on John Lackey and none of the free agent 1st base options are that great either. i'm really glad they are looking to move Luis Castillo...the guy is a singles hitter who doesn't steal bases and plays poor defense. i'd much rather have Orlando Hudson, Placido Polanco or somebody like Brandon Phillips at 2B (hey, i can dream).


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## Tungsten

mistermet said:


> so the offseason begins and the hot stove is starting to heat up! i love this time of year...obviously it isn't as fun as when the games are played, but i love all of the optimism of trade rumors and potential free agent signings and such. my team's supposedly looking at Matt Holliday, who i think would be a great pickup in LF. other than that, i am lukewarm on John Lackey and none of the free agent 1st base options are that great either. i'm really glad they are looking to move Luis Castillo...the guy is a singles hitter who doesn't steal bases and plays poor defense. i'd much rather have Orlando Hudson, Placido Polanco or somebody like Brandon Phillips at 2B (hey, i can dream).


Holliday would be a good signing. Honestly I don't have a ton of faith in Omar Minaya. I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything too stupid this offseason and that they have the sense to bring in a new GM sometime next year.
I'm fine with trading Castillo, but if they do the rumored deal to get Juan Pierre from the Dodgers I may just give up and start watching cricket.


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