# Barbiturates?



## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Has anyone tried long acting barbiturates like phenobarbital or short acting ones like pentobarbital and secobarbital for anxiety? Were they effective?


----------



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I haven't, but I'd sure like to. I'm not personally aware of anybody who takes barbs period. And realistically, phenobarbital is the only one you have any chance at all of even possibly getting.

I doubt any pharmacist under the age of 80 has ever in his career seen a script for Seconal (with the exception of assisted suicide use in Oregon).


----------



## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

I've tried the long acting Phenobarbital and it's very useful for benzo withdrawal.


----------



## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

Yep. Barbs are dangerous because while you gain tolerance to their sedating effects, the lethal dose remains the same - unlike, say, heroin.

I know you can buy Butalbital online without a prescription (a legit online pharm I used to purchase from sells it), but it's also mixed with APAP and caffeine; hence it's not a scheduled drug.

After some research...

Looks like an extraction of both APAP and caffeine is not only possible, but SUPER EASY:

"It is very easy to extract pure butalbital from Fioricet, and leave out nasty paracetamol and caffeine. Crush up the pills to a fine powder and dissolve them in water, shake the solution for a while so all the caffeine and soluble binders dissolve in the water. Filter the solution and discard the water. Add the remainders to a fresh amount of water and add some lye(sodium hydroxide) and shake well. The butalbital will turn into the water soluble sodium salt and dissolves in the water, the paracetamol stays undissolved, together with the undissolved binders. Filter the solution and keep the solution, discard the filter with the paracetamol and other crap. Now slowly add hydrochloric acid to the solution untill precipitation stops. By adding hydrochloric acid to the sodium butalbital solution the sodium butalbital turns into the unsoluble free base and precipitates. After filtering the solution one is left with practically pure butalbital, free from harmful paracetamol and jittery caffeine, as well as binders!"

Who wants to be the guinea pig?


----------



## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> I know you can buy Butalbital online without a prescription (a legit online pharm I used to purchase from sells it), but it's also mixed with APAP and caffeine; hence it's not a scheduled drug.


That's incorrect. Fioricet is a CIII controlled substance in the United States because it has butalbital in it.


----------



## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

korey said:


> That's incorrect. Fioricet is a CIII controlled substance in the United States because it has butalbital in it.


Butalbital and Fiorinal (= Butalbital with Aspirin + Caffeine) are Schedule III Controlled Substances in the US, but I think Fioricet (= 50mg Butalbital + 325 mg acetaminophen + 40mg caffeine) is not, for whatever reason. I doubt so many pharmacies would sell Fioricet online without prescription if it were Schedule III.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/listby_sched/sched3.htm

Fiorinal#3 also contains Codeine


----------



## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

korey said:


> That's incorrect. Fioricet is a CIII controlled substance in the United States because it has butalbital in it.


That's incorrect.

Fioricet is not scheduled federally. In 1980, a federal panel set forth criteria to accept certain compounds if they were combined with butalbital and fell within the proper ratio of acetaminophen and butalbital. Fioricet met the criteria to be an excepted compound and was excepted in 1980.

However, your state _may_ schedule Fioricet differently than federal law (though I'm not aware of it differing anywhere). Also, it would be illegal to obtain from in online pharm in Colorado because ordering from online pharms there is illegal per se.


----------



## arth77 (Jun 4, 2009)

these meds were used for SA, I took them for years without much help but much better SA meds are now available and yes they are dangerous


----------



## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> That's incorrect.
> 
> Fioricet is not scheduled federally. In 1980, a federal panel set forth criteria to accept certain compounds if they were combined with butalbital and fell within the proper ratio of acetaminophen and butalbital. Fioricet met the criteria to be an excepted compound and was excepted in 1980.
> 
> However, your state _may_ schedule Fioricet differently than federal law (though I'm not aware of it differing anywhere). Also, it would be illegal to obtain from in online pharm in Colorado because ordering from online pharms there is illegal per se.


omg You're not kidding. I can't find anything stating that Fioricet is a controlled drug. But the version with aspirin is? That makes no sense. They both have the same amount of the barb in them. I'm sorry for saying you were incorrect.

Jeez, the drug control laws in the US make no sense...


----------



## Recusant (May 4, 2009)

I've taken donnatol which is phenol barbitol mixed with the three primary psychoactive chemicals in nightshade/belladonna (atropine, scopolamine, hyoscyamine). It was extraordinarily downing and relaxing, made me quite tired. Everything had this magical trippy aspect to it, not really hallucinations but I noticed sparkles and reflections and light more.

Cool stuff though very difficult to get. It's prescribed for severe irritable bowel syndrome.


----------



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> Yep. Barbs are dangerous because while you gain tolerance to their sedating effects, the lethal dose remains the same - unlike, say, heroin.


Yes, that's the reason. One never develops a tolerance to the respiratory depression effect of barbs, so eventually the effective dose equals the fatal dose. Accidental death by barbs is even more common when mixed with alcohol. If anybody manages to die by a benzo OD they'd need literally hundreds or thousands of pills and you're sure not going to consume that many by accident. Benzos have such low toxicity that nobody would even try them as a suicide method unless they were totally clueless about the sky high LD 50.

Opioids, including heroin, all can kill by respiratory depression as well but users develop a tolerance to that effect so there is no upper dosage limit if one has become used to sky high amounts. I remember reading the full FDA label for OxyContin. Purdue pharma ran clinical trials on OxyContin that used doses anywhere from 20 mg to 600+ mg daily. If I or anyone else who isn't an extreme chronic pain patient or very hard core junkie took 600 mg of Oxy we'd surely be dead.


----------



## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

Ash09 said:


> Has anyone tried long acting barbiturates like phenobarbital or short acting ones like pentobarbital and secobarbital for anxiety? Were they effective?


I have been on every benzo out there none work like barbs for me. I have severe social anxiety and am prescribed fioricet for migranes. It contains butalbital which is a weak barb but out of all the ssri's, benzos and even opiates none help like the fioricet. It is a cure for me


----------



## Bacon (Jul 4, 2010)

Barbiturates are rarely prescribed mainly because people can OD and kill themselfs and Benzo's are extremely safe when used by themselves. Your likely to get a benzo i know no one on a Barbiturate.


----------



## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

I've already tried benzos, but 5mg of clonazepam has no apparent effect, neither does diazepam or alprazolam. I wouldn't even try to get a prescription for barbiturates, it's much easier to make them these days.


----------



## Honey8701 (Oct 23, 2010)

Bacon said:


> Barbiturates are rarely prescribed mainly because people can OD and kill themselfs and Benzo's are extremely safe when used by themselves. Your likely to get a benzo i know no one on a Barbiturate.


Agreed w/bacon.Yes, barbiturates are very addicting & wouldn't recommend it. BTW, barb was very popular during WWII and many classic Hollywood stars OD. :no


----------



## terra (Feb 12, 2007)

I don't think doctors prescribe those anymore because of the overdose risk. The only time I've ever come across a barbiturate--phenobarbitol--it was prescribed to an epileptic cat I was taking care of.


----------



## MBL (Oct 5, 2010)

I was on a LOT of phenobarb, all it did was make me tired and depressed. It's a crappy drug.


----------



## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

The closest thing i tried to barbs was etaqualone, can only say i wasnt 100% immume to it as i am with benzo's, however it didnt help my SA (wich was expected as no single downer has a benefit on my SA like alcohol, GHB, opiates etc).


----------



## Destroyedself (Dec 23, 2011)

I actually had butalbital combined with tylenol and caffeine and took 9 before going to a party and it got me ****ed up but I was talkative and outgoing compared to regular self.I risked my life by combining it with liquor and ended up throwing up 3 hours later.the next day I had bad withdrawal worst I ever felt because I been taking them for less than a week so its not recommended


----------



## forgetmylife (Oct 1, 2011)

Ash09 said:


> Has anyone tried long acting barbiturates like phenobarbital or short acting ones like pentobarbital and secobarbital for anxiety? Were they effective?


I don't know how you'd even get ahold of barbiturates... Plus I think they were replaced by benzos which probably do much of the same thing.

I got a script once for phenobarbital (but it wasn't prescribed for sa) but I was never able to try it in higher dosages. I don't recall too much of an effect. Maybe like a euphoric benzo.


----------

