# Being Sweet Sucks



## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

It really does. Can you imagine when some woman you like says you are very sweet and wonders why i don't have a girlfriend.  Then you ask her out on a date and it's like she doesn't want to.

I'm simply confused and deterred. Why open yourself up when this is all you get. Im the "fun uncle." Holy crap, i truly suck at dating.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

Haha it seems I am also the 'sweet guy'...

Was told (by that girl my recent thread was about) that I am really sweet. Oh but she then quickly followed that up with 'I know some sweeter guys though', it's never good to be too sweet'...

Yeah right... she was after a bad boy and I was simply 'too nice' and respectful. End of.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

It's not like im a "good guy." That's the worst part about it.

Thanks for your support man, i just feel lost.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> It's not like im a "good guy." That's the worst part about it.
> 
> Thanks for your support man, i just feel lost.


Hey no prob, just thought I could relate.

And it's the same for me actually. I don't believe the true me is a typical 'nice guy'. I guess it's just that because I lack experience in dating and attracting women, I tend to give off that impression due to nerves and my perception that being as nice as possible is the way to win a woman's heart.......

It's like I sabotaged it for myself. Learnt my lesson now though I think.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Being sweet is a good thing. Just because she thinks your a nice person doesn't mean she wants to be your girlfriend. Don't be one of those guys who interprets this as a sign you should be an *******. That will only bite you in the *** and make you look incredibly angry and insecure.

If a guy said you were a nice guy does this mean he wants to date you? It's a compliment, not an invitation for a date.

Being a nice guy is a good thing! Being an insecure, needy pushover is another thing ENTIRELY! A woman can call me a nice guy any time of the day. The misconception of "nice guy" = coward/pushover is a plague perception for men.

Just because a girl rejected you and said you were a "nice guy" doesn't mean she's rejecting you for being a nice guy! geesh. The next girl will come along and say your a "nice guy" and want to date you! Or would you rather be called an ******* by a woman who likes you? Drop the nice guy petty stuff already, please.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

I feel the exact same way. I was just being myself and myself isn't good enough. I'm definitely disheartened but i believe there is someone for me, who loves my sweetness and craziness.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> Not exactly. You're still making it your fault. You're obsessed with the idea that you are or did something wrong and that, if you'd been a "bad boy" or whatever, you'd have got this girl and it would have been fine.
> 
> No, she's a sandwich short of a picnic. She's no good.
> 
> ...


Also don't forget that guys will pursue a girl who is clearly not interested in them and then blame the girl for not liking them and will base her decision off being a "nice guy"! She's not into you for w/e reason and the guys will find an excuse to say it is because they were way too nice. From the get-go she didn't like you regardless if she thought you were nice or not. Move on.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

bwidger85:1059179639 said:


> Being sweet is a good thing. Just because she thinks your a nice person doesn't mean she wants to be your girlfriend. Don't be one of those guys who interprets this as a sign you should be an *******. That will only bite you in the *** and make you look incredibly angry and insecure.
> 
> If a guy said you were a nice guy does this mean he wants to date you? It's a compliment, not an invitation for a date.
> 
> ...


I'd rather find a girl who wants me as a lover, not a friend. It's like why bother to talk to me when you aren't interested. The funny part about it the few times i treated a girl like ****, i got laid. I remember one time where this girl wanted me to fix her chair. I refused and said you have to **** me instead. And it happened. But this isn't the way i wanted to treat someone.

It's not any sense of insecurity. It's what i experienced myself.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> I'd rather find a girl who wants me as a lover, not a friend. It's like why bother to talk to me when you aren't interested. The funny part about it the few times i treated a girl like ****, i got laid. I remember one time where this girl wanted me to fix her chair. I refused and said you have to **** me instead. And it happened. But this isn't the way i wanted to treat someone.
> 
> It's not any sense of insecurity. It's what i experienced myself.


I also speak from experience. Just because you were upfront about sleeping with her doesn't mean that makes you an *******. Nice people want sex too. Being upfront and honest about how you feel doesn't make you an *******. She could of just taken what you said as an act of flirting and being upfront and speaking your mind. Nothing wrong with that. Really, that's a good trait.

Why should a girl talk to you if she's not interested? Maybe she wants to be nice to you? Maybe she wants to be your friend? Maybe she doesn't want you angry at her. There are many of reasons.

I've been laid being a nice guy. This must mean I'm an *******?


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## OldSchoolSkater (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah, you know, I'm not sure how old you are, but it seems that the older I get the more women actually apprecaite genuinely nice and sweet guys. Mid-twenties and younger it seems that although women see that a guy is genuine they are actually interested in someone a little more rough around the edges. As they get older they realize that a genuinely nice and sweet guy is what they really need/want and their taste in men changes.

Maybe I'm really off on this, but that's what it seems like to me. Probably because the types of guys they were physically attracted to ended up hurting them and they realize that nice guys are harder to find and can be much better boyfriends.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

bwidger85:1059179657 said:


> joinmartin said:
> 
> 
> > Not exactly. You're still making it your fault. You're obsessed with the idea that you are or did something wrong and that, if you'd been a "bad boy" or whatever, you'd have got this girl and it would have been fine.
> ...


That's frickin horse ****. I been pursuing girls who share the same interests as me. I don't wanna pretend and act.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

What if you are physically attractive and nice? it seems to work against me in this case because im 28


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't understand why men think they can attract women by being nice. Would you be interested in a girl just because she's _very nice_?

Not saying you need to be a jerkoff.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Yeah because to me being sweet is real. I don't want a callous, uptight woman.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I don't understand what's wrong with being nice? It's ridiculous how people prefer mean people!


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> That's frickin horse ****. I been pursuing girls who share the same interests as me. I don't wanna pretend and act.


How is what I said horse ****?

Just because a woman has the same interests as you doesn't mean she's going to be attracted to you. I don't get what your trying to argue with me about here...

Attraction doesn't equal having the same interests.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Yeah because to me being sweet is real. I don't want a callous, uptight woman.


Compensating desperately out of insecurity or neediness is turn off. Being sincere and sweet in the sense that you enjoy doing it is a preferred trait because you can connect with people and they can trust you. If you are sincere without desperately seeking approval then you are also seen as a person doing it because that's who you are, and that is an attractive thing.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

TPower said:


> I don't understand why men think they can attract women by being nice. Would you be interested in a girl just because she's _very nice_?
> 
> Not saying you need to be a jerkoff.


Yes, I am attracted to women who are nice. Being nice isn't the only ingredient when being attracted to someone.

Would you be attracted to a woman who treated you like ****?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Yeah because to me being sweet is real. I don't want a callous, uptight woman.


Most men don't, and most women don't want that either.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Listen, if i wanted anything that moves, i'd have zero problem using my looks to my advantage and getting some. But the fact you imply that i just hit on everyone is incredulous. Maybe you do it, but i don't. Im looking for the girl for me.

I don't need validation, as im just going to keep moving. But how some of you people look at things is sick. It's not about approval, its about finding someone to connect to at a level you don't seem to grasp, otherwise you wouldn't be talking this kind of ****.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Listen, if i wanted anything that moves, i'd have zero problem using my looks to my advantage and getting some. But the fact you imply that i just hit on everyone is incredulous. Maybe you do it, but i don't. Im looking for the girl for me.
> 
> I don't need validation, as im just going to keep moving. But how some of you people look at things is sick. It's not about approval, its about finding someone to connect to at a level you don't seem to grasp, otherwise you wouldn't be talking this kind of ****.


Whoa, where did I say you hit on everyone? I never said that.

Your obviously not getting what I wrote. I wrote nothing that says anything about trying to win validation or seeking approval. Your not paying attention to what I said.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> What if you are physically attractive and nice? it seems to work against me in this case because im 28


How does being 28 mean anything with regard to being attractive and nice? You lost me there...

Are you saying younger women want *******s? Are you saying because your older you can't get the women your seeking? I don't understand your point.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

When a woman you are going out with says "You are sweet", it does not mean she thinks you are sweet, it means she likes you as a friend but does not want a relationship with you. Being sweet, or "a nice guy", is not putting women off you.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Resonance said:


> When a woman you are going out with says "You are sweet", it does not mean she thinks you are sweet, it means she likes you as a friend but does not want a relationship with you.


So every time a woman says your sweet she's not interested? Come on guys...


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Yeah you said it yourself that some guys will hit on someone without liking them. In my case, i have to like her in order to hit on her. I have no interest in acting.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

TPower said:


> I don't understand why men think they can attract women by being nice. Would you be interested in a girl _*just*_ because she's _very nice_?
> 
> Not saying you need to be a jerkoff.





bwidger85 said:


> Yes, I am attracted to women who are nice. Being nice isn't the only ingredient when being attracted to someone.
> 
> Would you be attracted to a woman who treated you like ****?


.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Resonance:1059179808 said:


> When a woman you are going out with says "You are sweet", it does not mean she thinks you are sweet, it means she likes you as a friend but does not want a relationship with you. Being sweet, or "a nice guy", is not putting women off you.


I see that. And she had to throw the "why don't you have a girl" bull****. From everything i said here, it's freaking obvious why i don't have a girl.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Yeah you said it yourself that some guys will hit on someone without liking them. In my case, i have to like her in order to hit on her. I have no interest in acting.


No, I said some guys will hit on a woman that doesn't like the guy. Read it again.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

TPower said:


> .


Great point.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> I see that. And she had to throw the "why don't you have a girl" bull****. From everything i said here, it's freaking obvious why i don't have a girl.


No, it's not obvious why you don't have a girl. You said your good looking. You said you are a nice and sweet person. What isn't there to like?

Most likely your not meeting enough women or your coming off with a strange vibe.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

A lot of things. Like being a cancer survivor. That's pretty much a deal breaker. Who am i kidding?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> A lot of things. Like being a cancer survivor. That's pretty much a deal breaker. Who am i kidding?


No offense but your perception is way, way off. Because you survived cancer a girl will not like you? Are you being serious or are you just trying to use excuses now?


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Women have dozens of guys nice to them because they're trying to sleep with them. 

Being nice is not a rarity and doesn't make you stand above any one of those horny guys.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

TPower said:


> Women have dozens of guys nice to them because they're trying to sleep with them.
> 
> Being nice is not a rarity and doesn't make you stand above any one of those horny guys.


Being nice to a woman doesn't mean your always trying to sleep with her. I'm not nice to women simply because I want to get laid.

Being nice is an attractive trait because your not an *******. Why is it so hard for you to see that? It's that simple.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

bwidger85:1059179907 said:


> Brightpaperwarewolf said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of things. Like being a cancer survivor. That's pretty much a deal breaker. Who am i kidding?
> ...


You actually think i would lie about it? My last girlfriend didn't mind, but that was long ago.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> See the Wygant influence is rubbing off on you. LOL. Been going through his Mastery series. It's brilliant but...well...people think I go on a bit here....Wygant literally has to keep sipping from his water because he goes on so long. And he even tells you when he's going to take a drink.


Haha, the "excuses" thing Wygant speaks of actually did rub off on me, I must admit :b It's true though.

I like how Wygant has to keep saying he stutters because he is so excited. It's pretty funny. He's like, "Slooow down....." haha


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> You actually think i would lie about it? My last girlfriend didn't mind, but that was long ago.


I don't think your lying about anything. I just think your perception and attitude is horrid. If you go around thinking about life this way then no wonder your not meeting women. I don't wish you badly, fyi. I do think what I say will benefit you.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

joinmartin:1059179931 said:


> bwidger85 said:
> 
> 
> > No offense but your perception is way, way off. Because you survived cancer a girl will not like you? Are you being serious or are you just trying to use excuses now?
> ...


Stage III testicular cancer survivor. Don't want to go into detail but given your profession, i think you would know.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Stage III testicular cancer survivor. Don't want to go into detail but given your profession, i think you would know.


To be as sympathetic with your situation as possible, a woman doesn't care that much about balls anyway. It's the shaft that matters :b. If you do not have the stick then I would say that is an valid excuse, but not having the hacky sack shouldn't be a problem for you.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

bwidger85:1059179964 said:


> Brightpaperwarewolf said:
> 
> 
> > Stage III testicular cancer survivor. Don't want to go into detail but given your profession, i think you would know.
> ...


Yeah. Also when i cum, nothing comes out. It's good i can't get anyone pregnant, but...man it's hard to explain. The fact i can finally admit this publically feels pretty good. That's why many guys here should feel fortunate.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Yeah. Also when i cum, nothing comes out. It's good i can't get anyone pregnant, but...man it's hard to explain. The fact i can finally admit this publically feels pretty good. That's why many guys here should feel fortunate.


I think this is one of those things where your going to have to meet a woman who either doesn't care to have kids, will adopt or sperm donor. This is a valid excuse with regard to a woman who wants children with you specifically. I still don't think this will affect your dating life because most women are not thinking about having kids with you when they are getting to know you. A woman wanting kids, in my mind, happens in the long years of a relationship, unless, of course, it is by accident.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Yeah, it's a pretty cold, purposeless existance. I can only go for certain types.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Being nice to a woman doesn't mean your always trying to sleep with her. I'm not nice to women simply because I want to get laid.


Not necessarily, but these guys are actually nice by paying them drinks, making up conversation, throwing away compliments.

I'm just saying that _being nice_ is not enough and a very common trait. On the other hand, you've got ***holes who treat women like **** while they come back for more.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Resonance said:


> When a woman you are going out with says "You are sweet", it does not mean she thinks you are sweet, it means she likes you as a friend but does not want a relationship with you. Being sweet, or "a nice guy", is not putting women off you.


You're sweet.

:teeth

:hide


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

After this emotional ****storm of mine, she does like me after all and that she feels the connection too. Swear i'm too impatient sometimes.

But thanks for the support guys, i wish i can better listen, but your words do ring true.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> After this emotional ****storm of mine, she does like me after all and that she feels the connection too. Swear i'm too impatient sometimes.
> 
> But thanks for the support guys, i wish i can better listen, but your words do ring true.


I love it when I'm right :b


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## Nessy (Mar 3, 2011)

If you are always right please answer the thread I just made ;P


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

bwidger85 said:


> I love it when I'm right :b


You sure are  Seriously, thanks man. Sorry I was being a total jerk to you earlier, I was a bit emotional at the time.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> You sure are  Seriously, thanks man. Sorry I was being a total jerk to you earlier, I was a bit emotional at the time.


It's all good. I get the same way sometimes.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

TPower said:


> I'm just saying that _being nice_ is not enough and a very common trait. On the other hand, you've got ***holes who treat women like **** while they come back for more.


Let me ask you a question, and I want you to answer:

What do you think works better to attract a woman, being nice or being an *******?


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

Resonance said:


> *When a woman you are not going out with *says "You are sweet", it does not mean she thinks you are sweet, it means she likes you as a friend but does not want a relationship with you. Being sweet, or "a nice guy", is not putting women off you.





bwidger85 said:


> So every time a woman says your sweet she's not interested? Come on guys...





diamondheart89 said:


> You're sweet.
> 
> :teeth


:|

Yeah ok I phrased this badly, but picture this from a male perspective: Some woman you really don't want to go out with, much as you like her as a friend (perhaps she is physically unappealing, maybe she eats cats, whatever), starts showering you with compliments and hinting she wants you to ask her out. Out of politeness, rather than say "get f***ed", you'd say things like "that's nice of you to say", and such like.

By the logic that being sweet=bad, then saying nice things=bad, in this situation. In reality, it is not that she is being nice but that you need to be polite and don't wish to go out with her. A rather cruel addendum, which seems unique to women, is to add something along the lines of "I'm amazed you don't have a GF". If you are a single woman, this is categorically _not_ an acceptable thing to say to a man, _ever_ - to quote _being human_ "you might as well stab him in the face". Because obviously this implies "_I do not want to go out with you_" which to the male psyche is a contradiction of the compliment the phrase was appended to. This might not be logical - you can think someone is sweet without loving them, obviously - but it remains essentially true.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Resonance said:


> :|
> 
> Yeah ok I phrased this badly, but picture this from a male perspective: Some woman you really don't want to go out with, much as you like her as a friend (perhaps she is physically unappealing, maybe she eats cats, whatever), starts showering you with compliments and hinting she wants you to ask her out. Out of politeness, rather than say "get f***ed", you'd say things like "that's nice of you to say", and such like.
> 
> By the logic that being sweet=bad, then saying nice things=bad, in this situation. In reality, it is not that she is being nice but that you need to be polite but don't wish to go out with her. A rather cruel addendum, which seems unique to women, is to add something along the lines of "I'm amazed you don't have a GF". If you are a single woman, this is categorically _not_ an acceptable thing to say to a man, _ever_ - to quote _being human_ "you might as well stab him in the face". Because obviously this implies "_I do not want to go out with you_" which to the male psyche is a contradiction of the compliment the phrase was appended to. This might not be logical - you can think someone is sweet without loving them, obviously - but it remains essentially true.


I just think your being too general to state that women who say your sweet only say that because they want to reject you softly. I think that is a sweeping generalization that isn't accurate. In some cases this may be true but to say all women do this is just too unrealistic.


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## Chris16 (Nov 1, 2010)

Resonance said:


> :|
> 
> Yeah ok I phrased this badly, but picture this from a male perspective: Some woman you really don't want to go out with, much as you like her as a friend (perhaps she is physically unappealing, maybe she eats cats, whatever), starts showering you with compliments and hinting she wants you to ask her out. Out of politeness, rather than say "get f***ed", you'd say things like "that's nice of you to say", and such like.
> 
> By the logic that being sweet=bad, then saying nice things=bad, in this situation. In reality, it is not that she is being nice but that you need to be polite but don't wish to go out with her. A rather cruel addendum, which seems unique to women, is to add something along the lines of "I'm amazed you don't have a GF". If you are a single woman, this is categorically _not_ an acceptable thing to say to a man, _ever_ - to quote _being human_ "you might as well stab him in the face". Because obviously this implies "_I do not want to go out with you_" which to the male psyche is a contradiction of the compliment the phrase was appended to. This might not be logical - you can think someone is sweet without loving them, obviously - but it remains essentially true.


I know you may not have meant it, but that was very entertaining. :lol


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## fatelogic (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah, it gives you tooth ache.


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## Zen Mechanics (Aug 3, 2007)

bwidger85 said:


> Being sweet is a good thing. Just because she thinks your a nice person doesn't mean she wants to be your girlfriend. Don't be one of those guys who interprets this as a sign you should be an *******. That will only bite you in the *** and make you look incredibly angry and insecure.
> 
> If a guy said you were a nice guy does this mean he wants to date you? It's a compliment, not an invitation for a date.
> 
> ...


this guy gets it. i see so many guys do this whole "she said i was sweet WHY WON'T SHE DATE ME!!" as you say, just cos a girl gives you a compliment doesn't mean she has any interest in dating you.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Let me ask you a question, and I want you to answer:
> 
> What do you think works better to attract a woman, being nice or being an *******?


Being an *******.

I wish I was kidding. The overnice guy projects a desperate image. The ******* doesn't. That alone is huge in the attraction factor.

Girls want to feel special. They want to feel unique. A guy that looks desperate doesn't bring that because nobody else wants him, or I should say, he acts like nobody else wants him - he works harder than he should.


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

bwidger85 said:


> In some cases this may be true but *to say all women do this is just too unrealistic*.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

RyanJ said:


>


are you saying i don't have a brain?


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

bwidger85 said:


> are you saying i don't have a brain?


Nawww. Just that I don't think that Res was saying what you thought he was (hence the strawman ;P).


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## YellowLittleDucky (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm going to pipe in and say the following: 
The mentality of a "nice guy" does not equate to someone being a _good guy._ If you are JUST simply nice in hopes to attract a woman (by giving her stuff, complimenting her) is just _simply acting nice. _It is possible, for one to argue that this is just part of a manipulation ploy in attracting someone. It does not speak about the man's or woman's true kindness or genuine character. And just because someone calls you nice, doesn't mean that they want to date or that there is mutual chemistry.

Having said that... women who date a.s.s-holes are not exactly a great thing. For the same reason, I don't understand why a lot of women wonder why their relationship went haywire dating a jerk (perhaps he cheated). Is it for a similar reason why men go for women who date jerks? Quite baffling really. Why would a _sensible _guy go for someone like that? If a woman rejects you, the most attractive action to take is to simply move on. For the guys who proclaim themselves to be nice, a decent fraction of them think that being nice (not _kind, _but nice) entitles them to the woman of their desire automatically. Same goes for women though.


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## Zen Mechanics (Aug 3, 2007)

YellowLittleDucky said:


> I'm going to pipe in and say the following:
> The mentality of a "nice guy" does not equate to someone being a _good guy._ If you are JUST simply nice in hopes to attract a woman (by giving her stuff, complimenting her) is just _simply acting nice. _It is possible, for one to argue that this is just part of a manipulation ploy in attracting someone. It does not speak about the man's or woman's true kindness or genuine character. And just because someone calls you nice, doesn't mean that they want to date or that there is mutual chemistry.
> 
> Having said that... women who date a.s.s-holes are not exactly a great thing. For the same reason, I don't understand why a lot of women wonder why their relationship went haywire dating a jerk (perhaps he cheated). Is it for a similar reason why men go for women who date jerks? Quite baffling really. Why would a _sensible _guy go for someone like that? If a woman rejects you, the most attractive action to take is to simply move on. For the guys who proclaim themselves to be nice, a decent fraction of them think that being nice (not _kind, _but nice) entitles them to the woman of their desire automatically. Same goes for women though.


this also.. alot of guys who complain about women not wanting to date 'nice guys' aren't nice at all.. they are simply acting nice and caring just to try and get in her pants, but are really pretty selfish when it comes down to it because they don't care about making HER happy, just care about her making THEM feel good. women can sense this 'fake niceness' pretty easily, hence why a lot of those guys get rebuffed. acting nice because you think that's what women want is just as bad as acting like an ******* cos you think that's what women, neither will work.. just be honest. if she doesn't like 'the real you', move on and find someone who does.

note this 'acting like an *******' or putting on a fake persona etc does work in some cases with short terms flings etc, but sooner or later the girl will see behind the mask and things will fall apart


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

i used to be sweet but got tired of the shoeprints on my back. i love people but im not a doormat anymore. not my job. i have other good characteristics i can lead with.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Resonance said:


> :|
> 
> Yeah ok I phrased this badly, but picture this from a male perspective: Some woman you really don't want to go out with, much as you like her as a friend (perhaps she is physically unappealing, maybe she eats cats, whatever), starts showering you with compliments and hinting she wants you to ask her out. Out of politeness, rather than say "get f***ed", you'd say things like "that's nice of you to say", and such like.
> 
> By the logic that being sweet=bad, then saying nice things=bad, in this situation. In reality, it is not that she is being nice but that you need to be polite and don't wish to go out with her. A rather cruel addendum, which seems unique to women, is to add something along the lines of "I'm amazed you don't have a GF". If you are a single woman, this is categorically _not_ an acceptable thing to say to a man, _ever_ - to quote _being human_ "you might as well stab him in the face". Because obviously this implies "_I do not want to go out with you_" which to the male psyche is a contradiction of the compliment the phrase was appended to. This might not be logical - you can think someone is sweet without loving them, obviously - but it remains essentially true.


You explained best how I felt. It was like getting stabbed in the face lol! You want someone to feel attracted to you and I read into it wrong and let my emotions get the best of me. Call this "seeking approval" but it feels good when you feel someone is attracted to you.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Zen Mechanics said:


> this also.. alot of guys who complain about women not wanting to date 'nice guys' aren't nice at all.. they are simply acting nice and caring just to try and get in her pants, but are really pretty selfish when it comes down to it because they don't care about making HER happy, just care about her making THEM feel good. women can sense this 'fake niceness' pretty easily, hence why a lot of those guys get rebuffed. acting nice because you think that's what women want is just as bad as acting like an ******* cos you think that's what women, neither will work.. just be honest. if she doesn't like 'the real you', move on and find someone who does.


You are completely wrong. Most of these guys are actually willing to give love, and take care of the woman. They wouldn't hurt a fly. Those who only want to get in their pants are usually better at getting women and the best way to start is by not being an overnice wimp.



Zen Mechanics said:


> note this 'acting like an *******' or putting on a fake persona etc does work in some cases with short terms flings etc, but sooner or later the girl will see behind the mask and things will fall apart


Not really. Then may end up realizing the guy is a useless piece of trash, but it doesn't mean they're going to leave him. My ex is still dating a guy she's tired of, She just can't bring herself to leave him. She had zero problems leaving me, a few months ago, thought.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

FairleighCalm said:


> i used to be sweet but got tired of the shoeprints on my back. i love people but im not a doormat anymore. not my job. i have other good characteristics i can lead with.


This is the line of thinking I try to follow too. I want 'nice' to be a part of my personality, but not the main quality that comes to someone's mind when they think of me.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

anymouse said:


> I don't like nice guys OR bad boys


I'm an *******, is that good? :b


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## Zen Mechanics (Aug 3, 2007)

TPower said:


> You are completely wrong. Most of these guys are actually willing to give love, and take care of the woman. They wouldn't hurt a fly. Those who only want to get in their pants are usually better at getting women and the best way to start is by not being an overnice wimp.
> 
> Not really. Then may end up realizing the guy is a useless piece of trash, but it doesn't mean they're going to leave him. My ex is still dating a guy she's tired of, She just can't bring herself to leave him. She had zero problems leaving me, a few months ago, thought.


based on the ex remark sounds like you are a bit defensive about 'nice guys' and harbouring some ill feelings towards '*******s', understandable.. the only girl who would stay with a guy when she found out he was a total ******* are screw ups themselves, sorry to say. you wouldn't want a girl like that anyway..

as for 'most of these guys are actually willing to give love' etc etc. did you read what i said properly? women love genuinely nice, caring guys.. but you fnd the majority of guys who complain about 'nice guys finish last' and that girls only like *******s, are not actually NICE GUYS, but instead are just as much self centred and only interested in one thing as the '*******s' they just go about getting it a different way. instead of being 'honest' about their 'assholish', they cover it up with a fake 'nice' persona.

and then there is the other situation which generally goes this way:

-guy is interested in girl

-girl not attracted to guy/only interested in friendship

-guy asks girl out

-girl says something along the lines of 'you are a really nice guy but i don't see you that way'

-guy thinks GIRLS ONLY LIKE *******S

when in reality the lack of attraction had nothing to do with his 'niceness' (real or otherwise), but more likely a lack of physical attraction or chemistry. but the guy takes the compliment the girl gave him simply to let him down easy as an indicator it was that BECAUSE he was nice that she wasn't interested.


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## Zen Mechanics (Aug 3, 2007)

anyway there is a difference between being 'nice' and being a snivelling doormat. pepole think there are only two extremes, nice or a total jerk. but you can be nice and caring guy but still not take any **** from anyone..


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Zen Mechanics said:


> as for 'most of these guys are actually willing to give love' etc etc. did you read what i said properly? women love genuinely nice, caring guys.. but you fnd the majority of guys who complain about 'nice guys finish last' and that girls only like *******s, are not actually NICE GUYS, but instead are just as much self centred and only interested in one thing as the '*******s' they just go about getting it a different way. instead of being 'honest' about their 'assholish', they cover it up with a fake 'nice' persona.
> 
> and then there is the other situation which generally goes this way:
> 
> ...


So you assume every single guy in a girl's friendzone is ugly in her eyes? I find that hard to believe.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Zen Mechanics said:


> anyway there is a difference between being 'nice' and being a snivelling doormat. pepole think there are only two extremes, nice or a total jerk. but you can be nice and caring guy but still not take any **** from anyone..


But truth is, the complete jerk will always and I mean ALWAYS get more women than the doormat, it should be the 11th commandment.


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## StevenGlansberg (Apr 1, 2009)

anymouse said:


> Resonance: as you're a clever asterixwhole, yes! :b
> 
> m_g: you do have nice as a big part of your personality,
> + you can be gruff, but nothing like Resonance, here. :no
> ...


So less Zach Morris and more AC Slater is what you're saying?


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

anymouse said:


> Resonance: as you're a clever asterixwhole, yes! :b
> 
> m_g: you do have nice as a big part of your personality
> 
> ...


Thanks, but really it's you that is the awesome and sweet person


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

TPower said:


> But truth is, the complete jerk will always and I mean ALWAYS get more women than the doormat, it should be the 11th commandment.


Confidence will get more attention than the doormat, yes. Being a jerk and confident don't always belong in the same category. For instance, you can be confident and a nice person. I consider myself confident but also a nice person. I would say a person who is nice and confident has a greater success rate than a jerk who is confident simply because the nice guy with confidence is both attractive and friendly and trustworthy. A doormat is not confident and does not even respect himself usually.

Confidence is an attractive trait for both sexes and not just women. Being a doormat is not attractive for men or women. This isn't just a male issue but a human and even biological issue that affects not only people but other species as well. Other animals react to confidence and non-confidence from other species as well. It's universal.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> Well, I'd say personal power more than confidence. When I've "messed it up" or something has gone wrong, it's one of two things: out of my control or I lost my personal power. The guy who is a jerk to women is ridiculously insecure.


Wouldn't you consider personal power like confidence though?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> Forgive me, I may not be making much sense right now. Just had a heart to heart with a good friend and I won't last the night with the crap that's been holding me back recently.
> 
> Personal power is the authentic expression of the self as is. It involves confidence, yes. But personal power is the full picture. Self esteem, confidence, expressing your authentic self and being unafraid to express yourself. That's what I see it as. You can express confidence and get quite far. But, if there is nothing genuine behind that then you will fall down pretty quickly. Personal power is the genuine, authentic thing you are behind the confidence. The constantly burning embers that reignite the fire as and when needed. The sea into which all the rivers flow.
> 
> ...


Good perspective and well said:yes


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

I only read half this thread but I love it lol. Great debate.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

This is why I am never sweet without reason.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

anymouse said:


> ^ nay.
> 
> sweet is awesome.
> 
> ...


I can't really think of anyone who'd say I am nice. Sweet yes, someone does say that, but that is because I am actually sweet to them, and I have a reason for it.



anymouse said:


> but really, if you have to choose between coming across "nice" or "intimidating" choose intimidating every time.
> 
> be like hank:


So how did I do?



anymouse said:


> *"I don't believe in fate or destiny. I believe in various degrees of hatred, paranoia, and abandonment. However much of that gets heaped upon you doesn't matter - it's only a matter of how much you can take and what it does to you.*_" - h. rollins :bash_


A man after my own heart.... He's right.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

anymouse said:


> was i one of them


No.... but that's not a bad thing...


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Resonance said:


> When a woman you are going out with says "You are sweet", it does not mean she thinks you are sweet, it means she likes you as a friend but does not want a relationship with you.


SUCH SOUND ADVICE! lol

I got this response multiple times.


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## keyla965 (Jan 13, 2011)

then try being a dick head or the opposite of sweet. Thats what most girLs go for these days


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

At least, jerks get p*ssy.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Mr Self Destruct said:


> from my experience, being sweet you end up being walked all over and used like a doormat. Still I would rather be used then be a jerk like many other "normal" guys.


See this is what I don't understand. I mean it worked at first, but then it all started to fade away, I became more "real" I guess. I got all moody and revealed my feelings to her. But I knew I made a mistake because just the way we were talking, it just faded.

See I don't understand how that's being a doormat. I can stand for myself and not afraid of anyone, just chicks. lol.


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## hmnut (Aug 8, 2011)

Mr Self Destruct said:


> from my experience, being sweet you end up being walked all over and used like a doormat. Still I would rather be used then be a jerk like many other "normal" guys.


I would rather be a jerk and respected than be used and not.

I have been the sweet guy who all girls say "I can't believe you don't have a girlfriend" yet the exact same girls would never date me.

A female friend of mine, actually told me that she an a bunch of other girls rated me an a bunch of other guys and they said I was the type of guy they would married but not the kind they would date.

In my naive youth I was stupid enough to take that as a compliment, but now that I am older and see it was actually an insult (even if they didn't mean it as an insult). What I thought they were saying was that I was responsible mature and the kind of guy women want to settle down with, and while they may have been saying that what they were also saying was they thought of me as safe rather than attractive. I was a good back plan after for when they get old and guys stop buying them drinks at the club. I wasn't the guy who they would have a wild romantic time with, I was the guy they would call to take care of them when that guy flakes on them.

The point I am trying to make is there is no virtue in being used.

If I had to choose I would rather be the jerk. Women love bad boys but more than that they love to tame bad boys, so being a jerk and then softening is preferable to being the doormat and hoping a girl will treat you right.

However I think there are more options than just jerk and doormat. But it's hard for SA guys to find that balance because we are uncomfortable in general, it is easier to go to extremes.


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## guppy88 (Nov 12, 2010)

Many girls fall for trashy guys, and it's hard to be a nice guy. The term confidence can many times be replaced by "ego". Many of my friends who get the girls have big ****ing egos, and I hate it. When I hear girls calling guys "confident" those guys are also the my friends who tell me, "rob that store. I'm confident we'll get away!" or "let's beat the **** out of that loser." I don't like it, and many other men on here don't like it either. 

To those of you still denying that nice guys finish last, do you ever get into relationships? Do you have many problems getting into them if you do? I'm tired of hearing this positive bull**** outlook on life. I'm using my own personal experience, and my own perception of how things are taking place. 

Let's make this basic. Mean guys push nice guys out of the way (have seen this). Girls choose the mean guys over nice guys (I have seen many of times) Almost all mammals have alphas in their packs. Therefore, girls fall for tougher guys because they're instincts tell them they are alphas in the pack who can protect them.

 And look at popular culture: movies, songs, magazines, etc. Can you not see it?

 Sure, it's not a reason to give up. I'm not saying that at all. I'm sure there's a girl out there somewhere for all of us. The world is too big for there not to be one. I'm not saying girls have it easier than guys. We're all different, and we all have different problems. I'm not turning this into a gender war. Sure, girls might have it easier with hooking up, but they have a different needs and desires that I have no clue about. I'm sure some girls have it worse than me, but I'm being rejected by girls who go out for the bad guys who are really losers. I'm not doing anything but being friendly either. Is my frustration not understandable? 

 So stop telling us this isn't true. Stop telling us that it's all fair and moral because life isn't fair and there's no morality in it at all. We come here to vent our frustration so let us vent. It's one of the few things we got left.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

I have come across a lot of men (well, in my experience anyway) who, when you sort of scratch beneath the "manly" surface, are actually very sweet really, they just keep it hidden.

I know a guy, 54 years old, who owns and keeps in his house several guns and a rifle. he wears camouflage, and has studied martial arts for years. has a samurai sword as well, and has a concealed carry permit and uses it - everywhere he goes. 

He took in a stray cat which died on him four days later. He called me crying because "there was no one else to call". He paid to have that cat cremated. 

I could go on and on about the pressures our society puts on us women, double standards, and all that, but instead I'll mention one of the pressures our society puts on men - to be that cowboy of the American Myth - strong, silent, stoic - a "real" man, forging his own destiny, and all that crap. 

Not to mention the way our society generally treats niceness as a throwaway commodity.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

leonardess said:


> i could go on and on about the pressures our society puts on us women, double standards, and all that, but instead i'll mention one of the pressures our society puts on men - to be that cowboy of the american myth - strong, silent, stoic - a "real" man, forging his own destiny, and all that crap.
> 
> Not to mention the way our society generally treats niceness as a throwaway commodity.


a-****ing-men. bravo

EDIT: From a personal perspective, I view these men as insecure.


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## JS13 (Jul 21, 2011)

Being sweet shows a sign of weakness. Most girls will just use you. "shrug"


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## guppy88 (Nov 12, 2010)

leonardess said:


> I have come across a lot of men (well, in my experience anyway) who, when you sort of scratch beneath the "manly" surface, are actually very sweet really, they just keep it hidden.
> 
> I know a guy, 54 years old, who owns and keeps in his house several guns and a rifle. he wears camouflage, and has studied martial arts for years. has a samurai sword as well, and has a concealed carry permit and uses it - everywhere he goes.
> 
> ...


It doesn't make a man mean to own guns. I not only guns, but I was a correction officer. I am not a mean guy, and I'm not sure if you're saying that but if you are it seems like you're being judgmental.

It's not a very good example of pressure for men being strong, stoic and choosing their own destiny either. It's not as prevalent as it used to be. I don't get any crap because I'm not enough like Sylvester Stallone, Clint Eastwood, or John Wayne. In fact, you can't really be like them in today's world. That's movie bull****. Maybe it was true in the 50s' or 60s'. Sure you see it in themes, but no one judges me much considering in today's generation more men are sitting on furniture playing xbox and watching jersey shore for the rest of their natural life. And this is going on without any criticism. 

If you want to go on about how society is screwing you over as a woman, please do. I'm not saying no one doesn't put pressure on women. It's OK to vent it out. That's what WE'RE HERE FOR.

However, this is a very understandable issue for men. I mean here's just on example out of many in popular culture. 





lol it's kind of funny, but it's a problem that stays with us men. I see this theme going around in popular culture. This issue is real. 

Of course, there are women out there that are better than all this, but it just plain sucks when all that happens to you. And it's hard to find those girls for a guy who's typically a social outkast.


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## guppy88 (Nov 12, 2010)

joinmartin said:


> It's a satirical song about *pick up artists and the whole "treat girls like crap" attitude promoted by so called "alphas"*.


...

That's what this thread is about. And they wouldn't have made it if they aren't guys out there like that. So it's true.



joinmartin said:


> It's not actually an example of an issue for men in popular culture.


Sir, this is pop-culture. And yes it does involve men. Notice the term "guy". and notice the strong themes on how guys dress, and act.

---

Want another example? This one's a bit older, but I like Steve Martin. Little Shop of Horrors where the girl goes out with a crazy denist (Steve Martin) who treats her bad. Meanwhile, the nice guy who likes her can't go out with her.

I can keep going with this, in plays, books, magazines, etc. The only limit is your patience.






Yes, nice guys do finish last with some girls.


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## YellowLittleDucky (Mar 22, 2011)

Good guys don't finish last if they wisely choose a girl. Nice guys finish last if they choose indecent girls to begin with, and if their niceness does not translate to true kindness.

The reason why a-holes get so many girls and get laid is because they play it as a numbers game.


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## Invisiblehandicap (Jul 31, 2011)

Most guys are not 'nice guys' or 'sweet guys'. Not being a prick doesn't make you one of these.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Women are attracted to status, whether they are willing to admit it or not.

Nice guys act desperate, like if they couldn't find another girl to save their life. It may not be necessarily true, but that's what women see: A low-status person.

Men need to stop trying to "prove" themselves by buying things, being always in agreement, etc.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

TPower said:


> I don't understand why men think they can attract women by being nice. Would you be interested in a girl just because she's _very nice_?
> 
> Not saying you need to be a jerkoff.


A girl gets major brownie points with me if she's a sweetheart. But she has to be cute.


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## Amorphousanomaly (Jun 20, 2012)

Are we to assume the implication is that men who are sweet are not suitable candidates for sexual relations? I wouldn't assume that that was the case.


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## googleamiable (Jun 5, 2009)

seems relevant


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