# Why don't women make the first step more often?



## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

A genuine question here. It is hailed as a truth that men should always make the first step. But why?

For me, a schizoid, this is a tough situation. I could see myself reacting to a girl i like if she was open about how she felt, or at least showed some obvious interest, but not so much if we start from frozen ground and i have to make the first step.

That said i had girls give up on me in the past, due to being expecting of them to make the second and third step as well. In the end i guess they realized i was too closed to myself.

I guess i send false signals. For example recently a girl was (possibly) interested in me, i was not really conscious of that, but kept talking to her about some other issue. Days later she suddently became cold. It is not impossible that this was partly my fault, in leading her to the wrong conclusion that i was romantically interested in her.

Also i have noticed that the women i find better looking rarely make the first step. On the contrary less good-looking women (in my personal opinion) have openly told me they like me. I do not know where to attribute that.

Although i will always be a schizoid, i feel that i do have some love to give to the right girl. I guess i will have to become vocal about it though...


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

Well, I think most women know that when a guy really _really_ likes a woman, he will take initiative. So, maybe they are holding out for a man like this?

This is just my opinion. Hopefully, other women on this forum can give you their opinion.


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## Farideh (Nov 13, 2011)

I made the first move towards a guy I liked by giving him a flirty look. Luckily, he flirted back. But then we hung out the next day again and I felt awkward around him and didn't give him much attention. We didn't talk to eachother at all that night and now i haven't seen him in years. Pretty depressing.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

Thank you both for the replies 

I have been liking a number of girls a lot, but would face considerable difficulty taking the initiative. Not fr some weird reason (i trust) but mostly out of fear of rejection. Also my social circle is limited, and i feel like i cannot afford to really place anyone in it in a difficult position, since then i would have to leave that circle. Then again it is kind of pointless to have a social circle in the first place if you do not seek some less epidermic relationship too with members of it.

I do not know where to attribute this situation of mine. In the past i would think that i must be quite ugly, and that was why it was happening. But then again i recall being good-looking (in retrospect; at the time i was not of that opinion) and still have almost no girl here step up to meet me.
In England it was a lot different (i studied there) but again i had massive SA at the time, so i could not really go the extra step.

Well by now i am mostly resolved to talk to the next girl that shows some interest. It is a bit like the tale of the Evil Jin (1001 nights) though... I am frustrated from the time that has been already lost


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## MaxPower (May 1, 2012)

FranzKafka said:


> A genuine question here. It is hailed as a truth that men should always make the first step. But why?


:stu My first girlfriend asked me, I didn't realise it was the guys job to ask until I started dating in my late teens. I don't have a clue why.


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## MNM (Oct 3, 2012)

because we are scared of losing a guy we like and we would be ok with as a friend, as long as they were in our lives in some form


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

MNM said:


> because we are scared of losing a guy we like and we would be ok with as a friend, as long as they were in our lives in some form


So you would be content to see them miserable and alone, just as long as you can still have them in your life?

I am just curious. I have been in the situation before where I have liked a girl, and unknownst to me, she has liked me. I find out years later that she had a crush on me, but wouldn't make the first move. And as someone with severe relationship anxiety, I would never make the first move myself.

I had an incident in high school, with a girl like that. She is now married, with two kids. Seems like a nice guy, but she completely cut me out of her life, because I suppose she's afraid she'll hurt me. Well, she already did, by not making the first move.


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## lyric (Aug 21, 2011)

It's TRADITION. That's it, that's all. Men have been reared as the go-getters, the aggressors, the one who approaches a romantic situation. However, times are changing and women can do what they like.


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

lilyamongthorns said:


> Well, I think most women know that when a guy really _really_ likes a woman, he will take initiative. So, maybe they are holding out for a man like this?
> 
> This is just my opinion. Hopefully, other women on this forum can give you their opinion.


This!! This is exactly how I feel.


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## northstar1991 (Oct 4, 2011)

lyric said:


> It's TRADITION. That's it, that's all. Men have been reared as the go-getters, the aggressors, the one who approaches a romantic situation. However, times are changing and women can do what they like.


This! Also, women who make the first move are sometimes thought of as "easy".


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## lyric (Aug 21, 2011)

northstar1991 said:


> This! Also, women who make the first move are sometimes thought of as "easy".


Yeah that's true. That also depends on what she's wearing and the setting.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

northstar1991 said:


> This! Also, women who make the first move are sometimes thought of as "easy".


No they aren't. Women who flirt with every guy around are, thought.


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## northstar1991 (Oct 4, 2011)

TPower said:


> No they aren't. Women who flirt with every guy around are, thought.


I didn't say I agreed with that way of thinking.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Well, I don't believe these women are seen as easy either, unless the word is around that she slept with lots of guys.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I always find it kind of funny that women think that a guy will just make the first move, if he likes her. Especially on a social anxiety forum, where half the people posting are guys with...anxiety!

I know that social anxiety doesn't manifest in the same way every time. But guys like me, and the older guy Raven, are created by the same thought process that weeds out guys like us: *if he doesn't like me, he won't approach me. Even if I like him, I won't take into consideration his feelings or his possible insecurities or the possibility that he may be suffering from an anxiety disorder. I won't give him the chance to show me that he will make a good boyfriend...I will just sit back, relax, and if he doesn't get over his anxiety disorder, I will not date him. He will be dateless, and then when he's older, he will be weeded out as a weirdo for the exact same reasons I weeded him out when I was in my early 20's.

*The bolded...how in the hell does that make sense?

Honestly, most women confuse the hell out of me. I love women, but guys are much, much easier to understand. If a guy (gay) sees another guy (gay), and he sees the other guy is shy, he will approach. Probably the reason why most gay guys out of the closet are so much more sexually active than straight men.


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## MaxPower (May 1, 2012)

WintersTale said:


> I always find it kind of funny that women think that a guy will just make the first move, if he likes her. Especially on a social anxiety forum, where half the people posting are guys with...anxiety!
> 
> I know that social anxiety doesn't manifest in the same way every time. But guys like me, and the older guy Raven, are created by the same thought process that weeds out guys like us: *if he doesn't like me, he won't approach me. Even if I like him, I won't take into consideration his feelings or his possible insecurities or the possibility that he may be suffering from an anxiety disorder. I won't give him the chance to show me that he will make a good boyfriend...I will just sit back, relax, and if he doesn't get over his anxiety disorder, I will not date him. He will be dateless, and then when he's older, he will be weeded out as a weirdo for the exact same reasons I weeded him out when I was in my early 20's.
> 
> ...


^:clap


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## malaise (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't think guys should always have to make the first move. I'm fine with making the first move, but then I tend to want to pursue the quieter, shy guys brooding in the corner. I think it's fair to want the girl to take some initiative after you have put yourself out there. But it should be reciprocal, otherwise the other person will start to get frustrated/lose confidence. I tend to believe that if you really REALLY liked someone that it would come through somehow, if the other person was perceptive, and sensitive enough to stay with it that is. If not, then well maybe it wasn't meant to be.


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

Because boys only like pretty girls and pretty girls are already taken.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Beautiful girls are usually the ones that are the most insecure.


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## Visionary (Apr 13, 2010)

I've ask out three guys before, one rejected me... it was reasonable why he did because I found out after that he had a gf. 

Asked out a foreigner, though he was mean and really viewed people that wasn't on his "level" as stupid. 

Asked out my current bf and I must say, he is the one.


Edit; I was raised only by my dad and he's taught me that if I see something that I like, I should go for it. I can't just wait around my entire life waiting. take some chances and go for it.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

I too think it is less often that a "beautiful" girl is insecure, rather than on the secure side of things. But it does happen. For example a very good-looking girl may not be approached by anyone, out of their fear of being rejected, and as a result she may end up thinking she is not at all attractive. 
Generally it seems most people have some degree of SA when it comes to this issue, even the otherwise "confident" ones.


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## Visionary (Apr 13, 2010)

You should watch a video on the science of sexual attraction. People usually ask people out who are on their level of attractiveness. You may appear to those "beautiful" women as the women who ask you out. 

Are you as attractive as those pretty women? 


It's natural for humans to select other humans with a high number, valuable traits, but they soon get rejected and settle down for either less or the same number.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

Visionary said:


> You should watch a video on the science of sexual attraction. People usually ask people out who are on their level of attractiveness. You may appear to those "beautiful" women as the women who ask you out.
> 
> Are you as attractive as those pretty women?
> 
> It's natural for humans to select other humans with a high number, valuable traits, but they soon get rejected and settle down for either less or the same number.


Considering this is a support forum, you should at least try to post something resembling a supportive post. Of course some people are downright miserable- to pick one of the more anodyne terms for it :yes


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

FranzKafka said:


> Considering this is a support forum, you should at least try to post something resembling a supportive post. Of course some people are downright miserable- to pick one of the more anodyne terms for it :yes


I don't see what he/she wrote as unsupportive. More like realistic.

Most average people don't get the beautiful man/woman, unless they're rich.


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

WintersTale said:


> Beautiful girls are usually the ones that are the most insecure.


:agree

.
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.
.
.
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No I don't :idea


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## ShadyGFX (Jul 18, 2012)

Because they like confidence and a man willing to walk up to a complete stranger, with the risk of being shot down, displays confidence. Just a theory.


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Because for the majority of them they don't have to. I'm sure there will be some women here who will go they have approached guys, or that they haven't been approached or even guys will say that women approached them. Those people are in the minority. Join an online dating site put that gender as female and just see how much attention you can get. Why risk the possibility of rejection that goes with putting yourself out there and asking people out when you will most likely have had the choice of multiple people who have asked you out and if they aren't good enough you can go online

As guys we just have to deal with it. No big deal really that is the hand we have been dealt. If you want a girl you're going to have to ask her out yourself or hope to get lucky. Oh and giving a look or some sort of gesture is not making the first step.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

missingno said:


> Because for the majority of them they don't have to. I'm sure there will be some women here who will go they have approached guys, or that they haven't been approached or even guys will say that women approached them. Those people are in the minority. Join an online dating site put that gender as female and just see how much attention you can get. Why risk the possibility of rejection that goes with putting yourself out there and asking people out when you will most likely have had the choice of multiple people who have asked you out and if they aren't good enough you can go online
> 
> As guys we just have to deal with it. No big deal really that is the hand we have been dealt. If you want a girl you're going to have to ask her out yourself or hope to get lucky. Oh and giving a look or some sort of gesture is not making the first step.


I can agree with this.

In my view it is self-defeating to try to calculate what exactly is happening. In the past i would, and i am sure many here still do, but i found it is the dead-wrong approach. So i guess some degree of being more outgoing is needed, and i noted that i am schizoid so that the people with knowledge of SA (not just suffering from SA) would see what the issue here is.

In the end it does not pay to be that shy. Most people regularly get rejected, if they regularly ask others out. One has to deal with it, indeed, its the only way to success


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

lyric said:


> However, times are changing and women can do what they like.


They sure can, but I'm not sure most women want to make the first step.
It still seems quite rare at least - probably for many reasons.



northstar1991 said:


> This! Also, women who make the first move are sometimes thought of as "easy".


I don't know who would think of a woman as easy just because she made the first move. But then you don't expect to be called a creep when you make the first move as a guy either.
I don't think women have anything greater to lose than men do though.



SnowFlakesFire said:


> Because boys only like pretty girls and pretty girls are already taken.


That's just flat out wrong.
Most of the girls I've liked have not been the ones everybody were chasing after and have been single.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

ShadyGFX said:


> Because they like confidence and a man willing to walk up to a complete stranger, with the risk of being shot down, displays confidence. Just a theory.


This.

Hoping she does the very thing we're afraid to do isn't seen as very manly.

Also, if you don't ask her, are you, in a sense, rejecting her? We tend to give others all the power as far as rejection goes, but have to realize we have the power to reject others as well.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

When i was in middle school, there a few girls who ask me out, but i rejected them all. I felt like an idiot. But that was back then. Women's now want men to make the first move.


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## Tania I (Jul 22, 2012)

Because.
- Some girls do makes the first moves. Note, these girls are open minded and likes the fun side. To meet this type of girls are a matter of luck. They tend to leave the ones who fall for them and crave for ones who leaves them.
- Some girls makes the first moves for obvious set of goals (looks, money, desperate measures, or simply saw the man of their dream)
- Some girls get chased only for a while and ended up chasing back their entire life.
- Some girls think if they're not worth the slightest chase, why bother chasing?
- Some girls are simply enjoy to be chased and have options.

It's rare to have mutual interest in the first place. However wacky the moves are, however inadequate you think you are, if you want it, do it.


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

I have no idea, really. the only reason I didn't approach guys much in high school is because I assumed that if they weren't approaching me first, it meant they weren't interested. well, then again, this is a convention that is drilled into our heads in various ways since we're children, so I guess I do understand where it comes from. if I knew then what I know now, I'd have been more assertive when I liked a guy. I still ended up being the more aggressive one in most of my relationships though (after the guy made it clear he was interested). they seemed to like that. 

so yeah, I don't know why this non-approaching thing is so prevalent, seeing as most women can pretty much take their pick when it comes to men. I really didn't even realize it was before reading SAS, I thought it was just my shyness. :stu


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## awkwardsilent (Jun 14, 2012)

I do, make the first move but it is NOT asking out some random guy on a date. If I talk to you, if I am super attentive, if I offer to do things for you, if I flirt, and hang off your every word. It's pretty obvious when I am infatuated with you. I don't know how it can not be obvious... if you ignore it then obviously you aren't feeling the same way about me... that's how I see it. If you back away when I touch you... you're just not that into me... etc.


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## slightlyawkward (Feb 16, 2011)

FranzKafka said:


> A genuine question here. It is hailed as a truth that men should always make the first step. But why?
> 
> For me, a schizoid, this is a tough situation. I could see myself reacting to a girl i like if she was open about how she felt, or at least showed some obvious interest, but not so much if we start from frozen ground and i have to make the first step.
> 
> ...


I have always made the first move. I guess I'm one of the less good-looking women.


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## Emerald3 (Sep 17, 2009)

...Because some women have the same anxiety as the men. 

The pure thought of asking someone out let alone for a 'friends' type date, is just too scary for me. The guy I fancy at work, I've thought for AGES I should take the plunge and ask. But even when the thought enters my mind, it's like someone's just asked me to jump off a roof. I get butterflies in my tummy, my mouth goes dry, I blush and no words want to go out my mouth. So I push the idea out of my mind, or distact myself by doing something else or walking off.


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## Visionary (Apr 13, 2010)

FranzKafka said:


> Considering this is a support forum, you should at least try to post something resembling a supportive post. Of course some people are downright miserable- to pick one of the more anodyne terms for it :yes


what do you want me to say? I just gave my opinion and was trying to explain to you how it works and why your beautiful women are not interested in you like you're not interested in those less beautiful women who are interested in you. I'm not sure what your view of life is, but face reality some time. That is what a support forum is about, facing life.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

ShadyGFX said:


> Because they like confidence and a man willing to walk up to a complete stranger, with the risk of being shot down, displays confidence. Just a theory.


People post that like a thousands times. Post something new.


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## ShadyGFX (Jul 18, 2012)

visualkeirockstar said:


> People post that like a thousands times. Post something new.


I don't read other posts when I post on a thread. I should, but I'm lazy.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

visualkeirockstar said:


> People post that like a thousands times. Post something new.


Maybe there's a reason for that.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Making the first step is scary as hell.
Why be the first one to do it if you don't have to?


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

slightlyawkward said:


> I have always made the first move. I guess I'm one of the less good-looking women.


Come on, that was never my meaning :no

Besides, who am i to say which woman is less than perfect looking. Of course i can say that for myself, but that is true for everyone; it does not have any meaning that goes higher than any individual view though.

At any rate i must decide to make the first move myself. I guess women have their own issues, as i do, and they are worth the trouble of fighting one's SA and SP. I just noted that for me, due to SP it is extra-hard, but in the end i trust it was hard for ALL people at first


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## Soilwork (May 14, 2012)

missingno said:


> Because for the majority of them they don't have to. I'm sure there will be some women here who will go they have approached guys, or that they haven't been approached or even guys will say that women approached them. Those people are in the minority. Join an online dating site put that gender as female and just see how much attention you can get. Why risk the possibility of rejection that goes with putting yourself out there and asking people out when you will most likely have had the choice of multiple people who have asked you out and if they aren't good enough you can go online
> 
> As guys we just have to deal with it. No big deal really that is the hand we have been dealt. If you want a girl you're going to have to ask her out yourself or hope to get lucky. Oh and giving a look or some sort of gesture is not making the first step.


^
Basically this.

I think women should make it more obvious if they are interested in you though.


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## Gothika (Sep 16, 2012)

Personally I prefer the man to make the first move since I feel vulnerable and I'm afraid of rejection. There have been a few times where I'll tell the guy i am interested how I feel but most of the time I will just try to put hints out there and hope they get it. I'm just very shy so the first move I won't do unless I am very interested in the person but even then I find it hard to do it. I guess its because girls are made to believe the guys are always suppose to go after us so going after them seems strange to some girls.


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## Steve123 (Sep 13, 2009)

I reckon its something to do with risk being considered part of the male domain. Men typically are more likely to work in coal mines and other dangerous occupations like that and while making the first move isn't quite a risky as that, it's risky enough to be made "masculine" in some way. 

Then again I say this as a man who has approached more exotic animals in the jungle than women, so I might as well be wearing a dress.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

Simple pickup is going to be posting a 'Girl picks up guys' video next week. The first of it's kind?


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

If I was beautiful like a woman (that sounds kind of creepy, but whatever), I wouldn't have to make the first move. So I wouldn't.


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## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> If I was beautiful like a woman (that sounds kind of creepy, but whatever), I wouldn't have to make the first move. So I wouldn't.


agreed. why do the grunt work when you can sit around looking pretty and wait for the guy do it? lol


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## Unknown88 (Aug 21, 2012)

I think they should, it's a stupid social stigma. I just don't because I am cowardly  nothing to do with my gender.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

You are right, many men would think that if a woman approached them. Someone with SA, and anyway myself, would not though, but you are right that the woman cannot know that so she is safer not making the first step.

I must say this thread has helped me a lot, thank you all for your replies


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## brownzerg (Jan 8, 2012)

I've been shot down and ignored for over a decade..
After that long you're convinced that you just aren't desirable and try to just make sure you're not making anyone uncomfortable just by being around them.

If some lady approached me I'd be scared out of my mind of course, but if she stuck with it for a few minutes and asked me some questions I'd probably calm down rather quickly. I like to answer questions instead of make statements about myself. The questions come off as an interest and the statements feel like your pushing yourself on someone or selling yourself too hard.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

I hear you. Whereas in my case i was way too scared to speak at all, it was again fear of rejection. In the end though we have to make the first move, way it sadly is. Other people do not know how we are anyway, like we do not know how they are. One has to get to familiarize oneself with the other person, which usually is a slow process.

Pondering the past does not seem to help anyway, only changing what is needed provides the better chance of success.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

If I would've been approached in my life then I would've had a girlfriend at sometime n my life.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

I was thinking (not sure if this kind of thread is allowed here though) why don't you think of actually paying for a sexual experience? I know i am seriously thinking it, since it would help somewhat. On the other hand i am not sure i can handle the way things are in a house where such exchanges are made.
But maybe if you had a sexual experience then it would be easier to speak to other girls.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

I've thought about it but I don't want to have to pay money to someone just so I can **** them. I would rather have a girlfriend.


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## FranzKafka (Sep 30, 2012)

I suspect almost all would rather have a girlfriend. Problem is that the anxiety from lack of sexual experience might disable one from behaving in a "normal" way to a potential girlfriend, thus negating the possibility that she would show interest.

Besides, sex with a prostitute might be easier, since she is paid to do it and therefore will (ideally) not be judgemental. Whereas a girlfriend will have other expectations. Obviously i am not claiming one should try to substitute girlfriends with prostitutes, but the latter may help at first due to the lack of experience in such matters.


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## Ohhai (Oct 15, 2010)

Social construct.


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