# How do you argue against Christians that say...



## SchizoLoner (Aug 21, 2013)

"I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Look at the trees, sky and us. There's obviously a god. You think that this all happened by accident. The big bang theory doesn't explain anything. It's all junk science. We have souls and we didn't come from monkeys. I don't believe that nothing became something. Christianity is not a do religion but a done one because Jesus died and paid it all. You don't need good works if you just accept him as your lord and saviour. How can you have morality? How can you tell me what's right or wrong without the bible? You have no code to go by. Just because society says so doesn't make it right. Hitler thought he was doing good.":no

Sorry, but I was taught creationism in school and not the big bang theory. So, if any of my fellow atheists wants to educate me, then that would be wonderful. Like referencing books to read. I had the "privilege" of going to Catholic school. :| I got tired of pretending to believe in a magical Santa Claus in the sky.


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## BadGirl (Jan 6, 2013)

Don't worry Ugh will be along shortly.


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## CheekyBunny (Nov 10, 2013)

^^ lol


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Why would you bother arguing with someone like this?

It would be just as productive as talking to the wall.


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## SchizoLoner (Aug 21, 2013)

Just Lurking said:


> Why would you bother arguing with someone like this? It would be just as productive as talking to the wall.


True. I'm actually not the argumentative type. But if I walk away, apparently I'm the loser and don't know crap. Christians say that we attack them, when in reality, they attack us. I just simply say I'm not religious and they want to debate me.


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## march_hare (Jan 18, 2006)

"You don't need good works if you just accept him as your lord and saviour"...
"How can you have morality? You have no code to go by" 

Has someone actually said these two statments to you in close succession before? 
They are totally contradictory. You don't need to bother doing good works because all you have to do is believe in Jesus, yet you also do need the Bible as a moral code (ie how to be good). This doesn't make any sense.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

It would be nice if there were little flyers or brochures that atheists could carry around that had all the reasons, answers and responses to the obvious questions. Instead of wasting your breath and time trying to explain it, just hand them the flyer and move on. 

I got a Christian flyer not too long ago as I was stepping out of a store. The bolded headline was "Are you Saved, or a Sinner?" I didn't read any further before tossing it in the nearest trashcan (and then feeling bad about the wasted tree), but I'm sure they gave some convincing answers to that question, god knows that's a frequent question that I'm burning to know the answer to. Having atheist flyers handy so you can exchange them would be nice (though it's probably another wasted tree).


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

Just Lurking said:


> Why would you bother arguing with someone like this?
> 
> It would be just as productive as talking to the wall.


I agree.

But if you're interested, OP, the best book to start off with is "God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens.

As for science being a "faith" you might find this article useful:

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._authority_and_the_orderliness_of_nature.html


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## redbrand12 (Nov 23, 2013)

Based on my experience, you should never argue with them as they will continue to come up with something to justify that "god" exists. 

I've used tons of facts including "the bible is full of contradictions," and the ultimate question "who created god," and yet they always seem to come up with something to try and prove that their god does exists. 

It's no point, and it's just better to walk away. 

Remember never argue and always walk away.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

BadGirl said:


> Don't worry Ugh will be along shortly.


:lol


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

SchizoLoner said:


> True. I'm actually not the argumentative type. But if I walk away, apparently I'm the loser and don't know crap. Christians say that we attack them, when in reality, they attack us. I just simply say I'm not religious and they want to debate me.


If you walk away from the debate then they can claim a personal victory on some level, as unjustified as it actually is.

I totally appreciate that not everyone is prepared to get into conflictive debates though.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

SchizoLoner said:


> "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Look at the trees, sky and us. There's obviously a god. You think that this all happened by accident. The big bang theory doesn't explain anything. It's all junk science. We have souls and we didn't come from monkeys. I don't believe that nothing became something. Christianity is not a do religion but a done one because Jesus died and paid it all. You don't need good works if you just accept him as your lord and saviour. How can you have morality? How can you tell me what's right or wrong without the bible? You have no code to go by. Just because society says so doesn't make it right. Hitler thought he was doing good.":no
> 
> Sorry, but I was taught creationism in school and not the big bang theory. So, if any of my fellow atheists wants to educate me, then that would be wonderful. Like referencing books to read. I had the "privilege" of going to Catholic school. :| I got tired of pretending to believe in a magical Santa Claus in the sky.


Comendation to you for escaping the indoctrination of ignorance. 

There's too many subjects to cover without a huge list but a good start would be _The God Delusion_ by Richard Dawkins. It will provide you with a good rebuttal to much of the nonsense your Catholic teachers indoctrinated you with.

To start actually learning about the reality of the universe I suggest _The Magic Of Reality_, again by Dawkins. It's geared towards children but there are many adults who sorely need to read it! If your education has been neglected on certain issues then it's actually a great accessible start.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

TicklemeRingo said:


> I agree.
> 
> But if you're interested, OP, the best book to start off with is "God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens.
> 
> ...


Ah yes another great book for anyone who questions religion. 

Brilliant article btw, I just posted it here.


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## LifeInACage (Nov 10, 2013)

:mumGod, religion, the bible, heaven and hell.....it's all about control over people in my view. 

I simply don't have the time or energy to entertain any of the above. I can't say I've had the experience of someone stopping me on the street to discuss what I believe, God, etc.....it's mostly been just handing out leaflets which end up in the bin. 

In the future though, if someone does wish to challenge me it will be the only time when my really bad listening skills will actually do me a favour.....in fact, i'll enhance those bad listening skills and just not listen, my mind will wander away.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Religion has taken brainwashing almost to perfection. No matter the religion they all want you to blindly believe whatever they are telling you. As if you dont have a brain for yourself to think things through and make your own decisions. 

Religion existed long before christianity. Politeism was far more popular and long lasting than monoteism. But if you ask a christian or muslim about ancient religions such as greek gods they will laugh to your face and find many reasons to trash it. How are christianity and islamic religions better? They are not much different in fact. On one side you had a suprem god called Zeus and then several smaller gods. In christianity you have Dominis DEUS(isnt that even sounding a lot like Zeus?), Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, several disciples and saints. How is christianity even about a single god? What are Jesus and The Holy Spirit then? The Bible will tell you they are one and the same being or something like that. Which is utter crap. 

They are only saying that because it was decided to come with some bogus explanation that would unite very different opinions about christianity in the early days. People didnt travel like today and were learning about christianity from different scrolls. they often had a different approach or even used another name for the supreme deity. As soon as christianity was recogneized as a religion in the Roman Empire and christians could emerge from the catacombs they established The Church. And The Church decided to combine different scrolls and beliefs to a single one. So they came up with the Bible. A mixture of stories carefully selected out of them all and distorted over and over again to fit the interest of the Church.

The greek gods were vengeful and so was the christian god if you read the Bible. Greek gods were offered sacrifices and people were praying to them in temples. Christians are offering sacrifices in the Bible as well to get God into listening to them. The current idea that christianity is a religion of peace is self flattering and completely untrue. Also they are praying today in the temple equivalent: a church.

Another nonsense is the fact the christian God always existed before times and was never born. Huh!? How is that even making sense to anyone with a brain inside the skull? And isnt that sounding exactly like the idea that the Universe was born out of ''nothing'' as you said above? At least scientists accept the idea that there was some initial moment. Christianity doesnt provide you even with that. 

The most common instrument used by the Church to keep people obedient was Fear. If you do not do as we say you are a sinner and will go to Hell. And that way the Church itself invented the notion of Hell and Devil. They are not in the Bible. If you do not stay as sheep you may be an enemy of the Church or a witch. And that moment the Inquisition was born. Yes, christianity is all about love and peace. All those innocent people that were not willing to be mindless sheeps and those that had mental disorders(possesed by the devil as they were labeling them) suffered inimaginable tortures and many even death. 

Not to mention the long list of religious wars that were far more damaging. As soon as the Pope claimed to be the true ruler of all believers because he was gods messenger on earth, he started to use religion as a tool to get favors from kings and emperors, to get his own little kingdom, to plot using the religion as an intrument though which he could expand his power and lands. Take the Crusades. The Holy Wars. They had same purpose. How else could one explain the fact the crusaders attacked, destroyed, robbed and burned Constantinopole(the christian orthodox Vatican of that time.) I could go on forever about religious wars.

People didnt come out of monkeys? Monkeys do not have souls? Stupid ignorants. Any animal in this world has a soul and some basic feelings. Because any animal will love their babies, provide for them and protect them from harm. Also look at pets. They simply love to be caressed and some are even offering love in return. But no... they are just animals. The difference between humans and other animals is that we are smartest, we are shaping and also destroying our environment and stand at the top of the food chain. It doesnt mean we are not animals and it surely doesnt mean we are better. And monkeys are not our ancestors. Our relatives are primates not monkeys. We and them have a similar ancestor. 

Anyway I have made some pretty random speech. And far longer than I thought. hahaha There would be a lot to say on different smaller topics. But my guess is it is pointless to try to talk to a fanatic about arguments. They will not listen anyway. It's the same process as trying to increase an idiots IQ. It will simply never happen.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

sad vlad said:


> Religion has taken brainwashing almost to perfection. No matter the religion they all want you to blindly believe whatever they are telling you. As if you dont have a brain for yourself to think things through and make your own decisions.
> Religion existed long before christianity. Politeism was far more popular and long lasting than monoteism. But if you ask a christian or muslim about ancient religions such as greek gods they will laugh to your face and find many reasons to trash it. How are christianity and islamic religions better? They are not much different in fact. On one side you had a suprem god called Zeus and then several smaller gods. In christianity you have Dominis DEUS(isnt that even sounding a lot like Zeus?), Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, several disciples and saints. How is christianity even about a single god? What are Jesus and The Holy Spirit then? The Bible will tell you they are one and the same being or something like that. Which is utter crap. They are only saying that because it was decided to come with some bogus explanation that would unite very different opinions about christianity in the early days. People didnt travel like today and were learning about christianity from different scrolls. they often had a different approach or even used another name for the supreme deity. As soon as christianity was recogneized as a religion in the Roman Empire and christians could emerge from the catacombs they established The Church. And The Church decided to combine different scrolls and beliefs to a single one. So they came up with the Bible. A mixture of stories carefully selected out of them all and distorted over and over again to fit the interest of the Church.
> The greek gods were vengeful and so was the christian god if you read the Bible. Greek gods were offered sacrifices and people were praying to them in temples. Christians are offering sacrifices in the Bible as well to get God into listening to them. The current idea that christianity is a religion of peace is self flattering and completely untrue. Also they are praying today in the temple equivalent: a church.
> Another nonsense is the fact the christian God always existed before times and was never born. Huh!? How is that even making sense to anyone with a brain inside the skull? And isnt that sounding exactly like the idea that the Universe was born out of ''nothing'' as you said above? At least scientists accept the idea that there was some initial moment. Christianity doesnt provide you even with that.
> ...


Yeah that's all pretty much spot on, but please, paragraph it with line spaces. :b It's makes it so much easier to read.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

redbrand12 said:


> Based on my experience, you should never argue with them as they will continue to come up with something to justify that "god" exists.
> 
> I've used tons of facts including "the bible is full of contradictions," and the ultimate question "who created god," and yet they always seem to come up with something to try and prove that their god does exists.
> 
> ...


I think we should always argue with them, as tolerating their absurd beliefs by not challenging them effectively passively promotes them. If we don't address what we view as wrong then we only have ourselves to blame if it endures.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Oh Dae su said:


> You don't argue with them. You're not going to convince someone who has been taught *cough* force fed *cough* an idea their whole life to just believe something else. They'd have to come to it on their own terms. These people can be quite delusional.
> 
> I saw a facebook post by a religious nut, claiming the "enemy" was trying to attack him the night before. He had woken up unable to move for a period of time and was in panic. He then went on the preach how he has the lord to thank and he's glad he prayed nights before to prevent the "enemy" from winning.
> 
> ...


In public debate the objective of the atheist doesn't have to be trying to get the opponent to change their mind, it can be influencing the audience, which is a far more fruitful objective.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Oh Dae su said:


> That's a good way to look at it. In a public debate of any kind sure. I'm just curious to know whether a convinced audience in the favor of atheism would even require much influence. I believe a lot of strict faith believers opinions cannot be changed as it's too late.


Well it's a mixed audience here so it's valid. You are right though about some believers being too far gone to realise the absurdity of their claims.


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## inerameia (Jan 26, 2012)

Atheism isn't a position of faith or belief. Atheism is a position of doubt concerning theistic claims. The believer has to prove god exists and why it's their god who is real. It's impossible for them to do.


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## namebn (Mar 12, 2013)

this and many other videos from darkmatter2525 pretty much sums up why religion is bull.


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## speechact (Jan 2, 2014)

SchizoLoner said:


> :| I got tired of pretending to believe in a magical Santa Claus in the sky.


God was never presented in the Bible as a magical Santa Claus. Man did that. God was always multifaceted and multidimensional, not a childhood fairy tale. Unfortunately, history misrepresent God's person by equating him with a big guy in the sky who either made all your wishes or dreams come true or simply a judgmental disciplinarian. However, unless people are willing to be objective about who God is, not what they want him to be or what they feel He should be, then it's harder to face who He was and is. Read the Bible for yourself and study what God and Christ said about who He was not what you've been told he was. Look at it with an open mind, not a judgmental "let me find all the faults in it" because that's basing views on personal feelings of bias, not objective review and study. Studying it is not about simply picking out things to support your views for or against God. If you really want to know more about God, you read and find what He actually said and felt. Study for yourself what the Bible says, instead of simply going by what people taught you about what it said.


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## HelpfulHero (Aug 14, 2013)

Don't argue with Christians, just nod your head and escape the conversation as quickly as possible however, for your own enjoyment/education I would listen to the audiobook "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson. It is a history of science covering the development of cosmology, geology, chemistry, evolutionary history, mathematics, physics, etc and the interesting personalities of that history such as Linnaeus, Newton, Darwin, Watson/Crick and many more. Basically the more math and physics you learn the more you'll understand and appreciate the proofs for why we believe thongs to be as they are such as how we learned to measure the age and mass of the earth, etc


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

HelpfulHero said:


> Don't argue with Christians, just nod your head and escape the conversation as quickly as possible


Taking that line of thinking in every situation is wrong, and potentially dangerous in my opinion.

If nobody opposed Christian claims and demands, they would rule our societies and secularism would suffer greatly.

However, I appreciate that some conversations are pointless, as many staunch Christians won't change their mind on the topic at all, regardless of the quality of argument they encounter.

However, they are the minority. A large number of Christians are moderates and frequently progressive enough to be open to reform of some of their contradictory religious beliefs, which can be of great benefit to society, (issues such as gay rights being one of many examples). Therefore, it's very important they are exposed to credible counter-arguments.

Also, if the argument is with a staunch Christian but takes place with an audience, (such as on a public forum or debate event), then again it can be worth it, as the audience can be positively influenced by the arguments presented.



> for your own enjoyment/education I would listen to the audiobook "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson. It is a history of science covering the development of cosmology, geology, chemistry, evolutionary history, mathematics, physics, etc and the interesting personalities of that history such as Linnaeus, Newton, Darwin, Watson/Crick and many more. Basically the more math and physics you learn the more you'll understand and appreciate the proofs for why we believe thongs to be as they are such as how we learned to measure the age and mass of the earth, etc


I agree that's a great audiobook. I often recommend it to people who are looking to get a good general understanding of reality.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

SchizoLoner said:


> "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Look at the trees, sky and us. There's obviously a god. You think that this all happened by accident. The big bang theory doesn't explain anything. It's all junk science.


Two words: which god?



> We have souls and we didn't come from monkeys.


I came from my mother.



> I don't believe that nothing became something.


Why?



> Christianity is not a do religion but a done one because Jesus died and paid it all. You don't need good works if you just accept him as your lord and saviour.


Irrelevant, ignore.



> How can you have morality? How can you tell me what's right or wrong without the bible? You have no code to go by. Just because society says so doesn't make it right. Hitler thought he was doing good.


Is your god right because whatever he says is right or because he's wise enough to know what is right?

---

Being succinct is an asset. I should point out that Catholicism endorses the idea of evolution.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

I would advise not to argue with anyone. If your beliefs or faith is strong you don't need to always argue with them. I would also advise to not only read atheist books, but religious books from as many religions and idelogies as possible. Soak up the knowledge. Require wisdom. Read and explore, and make your choice. And most important, never ever close your mind and leave out possibilities. Personally not believing in something isn't the same as claiming to know the truth/or facts for everyone. A wise man or woman either believes in something, or doesn't believe in something until it is proven


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

Do you need to argue against them at all?
You could (shock!) leave them to your beliefs, as long as they leave you to yours......


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

SchizoLoner said:


> "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Look at the trees, sky and us. There's obviously a god. You think that this all happened by accident. The big bang theory doesn't explain anything. It's all junk science.


"Arguments" such as these just denote a total lack of critical thinking and understanding of reality.

The belief that the complexity of our environment is somehow evidence of some sort of conscious design fails to take into account the massive number that exist in the astronomical plane; for every planet that by chance reached the necessary conditions to generate life there must be millions upon millions of other that are totally lifeless.

It's like having 10 million people each buy a lottery ticket, all of them praying to their god for them to win and a single one winning it and taking that as a evidence for the existence of god.

There's no point in trying to reason with people that present notions such as this, because those people have completely set aside any form of rational thought regarding the issue.

Just nod condescendingly and move on.


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## Mbf123 (Jan 4, 2014)

Unfortunately, it is forgotten that America was built on the idea of "freedom FROM AND OF religion." As a member of he LGBT community and a person who questions religion, I work hard to not discuss religion and/beliefs. It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you live your life in a positive way and at the very least, don't cause other harm. Sadly, it's next to impossible to not be confronted with the opportunity to discuss religion. The best thing to do is bite your tongue and move on. Just as we can be convicted beyond our beliefs, neither can they.


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## HelpfulHero (Aug 14, 2013)

ugh1979 said:


> Taking that line of thinking in every situation is wrong, and potentially dangerous in my opinion.
> 
> If nobody opposed Christian claims and demands, they would rule our societies and secularism would suffer greatly.
> 
> ...


I agree, however I have close family who it would interrupt my social well being to argue with, also I live in a small town for the moment and do not wish to create overt hostility. Most who are "changeable" imo are 24 or younger and often they are exposed to the internet in sufficient amounts to get their beliefs challenged. Some are also in a place in life in which it would not be healthy to challenge their beliefs. For example, I wish I had not had my beliefs challenged in college the reason being is that it led to a great existential crisis and impacted my academics. If it had happened 2 years later I think I still would have been changeable and it wouldn't have impacted me so negatively. I can see the same being the case for say someone who is 17 and still dependent upon religious parents. I try to be conscious of who I say what to and why. If I satisfy my own ego by "doing the right thing" but in actuality cause a harm to another I do not enjoy that and I believe there is an affective component to changing "core beliefs" like that that is a gradual process that often takes much exposure to... alternative ways of being? before it is accepted as legitimate.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Royals said:


> A wise man or woman either believes in something, or doesn't believe in something until it is proven


A wise person only believes something to be true if there is sufficient credible evidence for it.

If there is no evidence then there is no reason to believe it to be true. That which has no evidence can only credibly be viewed in terms of plausibility of possibility.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> Yeah that's all pretty much spot on, but please, paragraph it with line spaces. :b It's makes it so much easier to read.












This from you?! :lol


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

diamondheart89 said:


> This from you?! :lol


Erm, yeah. :?

What's the issue? I never post large blocks of text with no paragraphs/line spaces.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

SchizoLoner said:


> "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.


What separates atheism from religion is that it does not require faith, it is an evidence-based belief system. You go out and look at the world and test things and deduce truth, no faith is required - if you doubt something science has concluded, you can look up peer-reviewed papers on precisely how that conclusion was reached, you can repeat experiments yourself, you can study physics, chemistry, biology and see for yourself.



> Look at the trees, sky and us. There's obviously a god


I have just looked out my window at the sky, and the trees over the road. They certainly seem to exist, but I fail to see how this is relevant to the question of whether or not there is a divine creator of the universe.



> You think that this all happened by accident.


Nope, nobody is suggesting that.



> The big bang theory doesn't explain anything.


It explains a lot. It may, of course, be incorrect, but it carries more weight than "God made everything with magic because I say so".



> It's all junk science.


Then produce your superior science for examination.


> We have souls


How do you know we have souls? What gives you reason to suspect this? What is a soul? What is it made of? Where is it?



> and we didn't come from monkeys.


Not directly, indeed not.



> I don't believe that nothing became something.


Cool, where did your god originate from?



> Christianity is not a do religion but a done one because Jesus died and paid it all.


A lot of people in Roman occupied Jerusalem tried to rally the populace to their cause by claiming to be the messiah, many of them were crucified for it. It seems highly likely one of them was indeed this "Jesus" guy you choose to follow. He wasn't magic though.



> You don't need good works if you just accept him as your lord and saviour.


Presumably this is why followers of organised religion are so consistently evil?


> How can you have morality?


It is evolutionaryily beneficial, see _The Selfish Gene_.



> How can you tell me what's right or wrong without the bible?


Well personally I subscribe to some sort of utilitarian system of ethics, but I cannot objectively speak as to what is "right" or "wrong" in an absolute sense with or without any particular religious text.


> You have no code to go by


. 
Yes I do


> Just because society says so doesn't make it right.


Indeed, and just because a given religion says so doesn't make something right or wrong.


> Hitler thought he was doing good.":no


Hitler was a Christian and used Christianity to stir up support for Nazism, part of the reason they thought they were doing good was because they saw themselves as doing God's work purging "Christ Killers".

Anyway thats how I would argue with those Christians.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Resonance said:


> What separates atheism from religion is that it does not require faith, it is an evidence-based belief system. You go out and look at the world and test things and deduce truth, no faith is required - if you doubt something science has concluded, you can look up peer-reviewed papers on precisely how that conclusion was reached, you can repeat experiments yourself, you can study physics, chemistry, biology and see for yourself.
> 
> I have just looked out my window at the sky, and the trees over the road. They certainly seem to exist, but I fail to see how this is relevant to the question of whether or not there is a divine creator of the universe.
> 
> ...


Nope. Wrong.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

diamondheart89 said:


> Nope. Wrong.


Can you present counter-arguments? Just saying it's "wrong" makes it look like you have no counter-arguments.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

diamondheart89 said:


> Nope. Wrong.





ugh1979 said:


> Can you present counter-arguments? Just saying it's "wrong" makes it look like you have no counter-arguments.


:lol

Excuse my wife, she is a silly


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## Khorneflakes (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm a bit curious, do you actually come into arguments like this in the united states? like that people try to convince each other actively with "riddle me this then" questions? 

Of course you can have arguments to the questions op's posted but why argue in the first place? i don't want to "convert" other people, if they are believers then their faith is obviously an integral part of their life and well being. why take that away?


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## StupidMan (Jan 18, 2014)

this vbulletin cookies or whatever fails me.. keep asking me to relog before replying? 
I hope it's not god's work... 

Joke aside.. (yes I was joking)

Be smart, pick your opponent and battlefield carefully.. 
If it's just a small talk, lunch/dinner or that kind of boring conversation then just ignore it.. 

but if the conversation leads to broad ugly impact to society and secular life in general, then you have to counter it and fight it.. 

fight for a cause.. know where and when is the key..

--
me english is bad


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## Auld Crabbit (Jan 17, 2014)

SchizoLoner said:


> "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Look at the trees, sky and us. There's obviously a god. You think that this all happened by accident. The big bang theory doesn't explain anything. It's all junk science. We have souls and we didn't come from monkeys. I don't believe that nothing became something. Christianity is not a do religion but a done one because Jesus died and paid it all. You don't need good works if you just accept him as your lord and saviour. How can you have morality? How can you tell me what's right or wrong without the bible? You have no code to go by. Just because society says so doesn't make it right. Hitler thought he was doing good.":no
> 
> Sorry, but I was taught creationism in school and not the big bang theory. So, if any of my fellow atheists wants to educate me, then that would be wonderful. Like referencing books to read. I had the "privilege" of going to Catholic school. :| I got tired of pretending to believe in a magical Santa Claus in the sky.


I always ask them if their "God" (most Christians are so stupid that don't even realize their Jewish god has a name: Yahweh), but anyway, if they believe that their "God" could exist without a creator, then why couldn't everything else? After all, if their "God" did exist, then where did he supposedly come from?

Of course they have no answer for that, or they will say something stupid like "God has always existed"...

You cannot win a battle of wits against delusional people. If they are smart, they usually figure out how ridiculous it is by the time they are teenagers. If they don't by then, they are pretty much a lost cause due to insufficient intellect.


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## Auld Crabbit (Jan 17, 2014)

Khorneflakes said:


> I'm a bit curious, do you actually come into arguments like this in the united states? like that people try to convince each other actively with "riddle me this then" questions?
> 
> Of course you can have arguments to the questions op's posted but why argue in the first place? i don't want to "convert" other people, if they are believers then their faith is obviously an integral part of their life and well being. why take that away?


America was founded by zealots who left Europe due in large part due to their inability to just mind their own business.


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## misski (Sep 25, 2011)

Our "moral code" is our logic. Morality came from evolution.


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## Mikebissle (Oct 24, 2011)

I'd bust out laughing if someone pulled that line out on me... on the inside, at least.


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