# Starting nardil tommowow



## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Im starting nardil tommowow and im somewhat excited and anxious at the same time. Im dreading the side effects and the 3-4 weeks its going to take to start working. Im going to be on 30mg for the first 5 days and then moving up 45 and then going back to the psychiatrist in 6 weeks. He said if we have to we will move up to 60mg but only if its really necessary. I thought the average dose was 60mg to 90mg and i mentioned that i know of some people going above 60 mg and he said he would not go above 60mg, BTW im 6,1 225.

I tried discussing the difference in nardil and parnate and he was completely clueless. I asked him if parnate was more stimulating and he said no? wtf. I went on to ask him about food restrictions and other things to avoid and he just told me to ask the pharmacist. So long story short my old small town shrink is not the best psychiatrist in the world. So if you all could educate me/ give my advice that would be great. I know theres some people on here that know alot about nardil(rocknroll)


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## GSH (Jul 16, 2009)

Nardil MAO I?

Diet restricted right?


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## chris87 (Jul 13, 2008)

You might want to read this old post: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/the-greenhorns-guide-to-nardil-51461/

I remember this person saying that Nardil totally cured his SA. I assume it worked, because I haven't seen him post since last year!

As far as I know, Parnate is definitely more stimulating than Nardil (and I'm assuming more likely to cause insomnia).


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Regarding the Dietry restrictions see here: http://www.upmc.com/HealthAtoZ/patienteducation/Documents/MaoiDiet.pdf

You should also be aware that there are some Drug-Drug interactions to be careful of in addition to the diet.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

thx for the help guys, im also taking klonopin(which i know isnt a problem) and glutamine and i asked my psychiatrist about glutamine but he didnt know. Also if anybody has any alcohol experiences on nardil i would like to hear them.


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

I've been on Nardil since January. 

As far as the food restrictions, the only very minor problem I've ever had is when I ate an avocado which was a little too ripe. I had a good feeling it was going to cause me problems but I took the chance anyway. And then, the only thing I suffered was a minor boost in blood pressure for an hour or so. I have a home blood pressure monitor to check my BP on occasion. I recommend it highly. 

As far as other food restrictions, I have NEVER had any problems. I was very cautious in the beginning of course but as time went on I'd try little things here and there, small amounts of cheese, etc. It's nothing for you to worry about as long as you're not foolish about it in the very beginning. 

I don't know if you're a drinker or not, however I drink in moderation and it isn't a problem. But the key is moderation. My usual cocktail is vodka and seltzer and I pour the alcohol using a shot glass. I have two cocktails with a full shot each and then I a third using half a shot. Never have I had any problem at all. Of course, that's now. I didn't do this right away after I began taking the drug. Give your body a little time to get used to the drug before you start drinking. 

I hope this helps a little bit. Let me know if you have any other questions.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks john, ill be careful the first couple of weeks. How is nardil working for you btw.


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

nardil is still working very well. i supplement with vitamin b about three times per week. i make sure and take it a few hours before or after i take my nardil. 

it really does make life so much better.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

What dosage are you on john?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Also how long did it take for it take for it to kick in and did you experience euphoria the first couple of weeks?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> thx for the help guys, im also taking klonopin(which i know isnt a problem) and glutamine and i asked my psychiatrist about glutamine but he didnt know. Also if anybody has any alcohol experiences on nardil i would like to hear them.


Glutamine is fine, although there are some other dietry supplements which you should be careful of including st johns wort, SAMe, 5HTP, L-Tryptophan and L-Tyrosine.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

what about l-theanine


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

It should be alrite but be careful, or start off trying out small amounts first, as l-theanine can cause a small increase in dopamine and possibly (debatable) serotonin levels.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

I have a headache right now (dont know if its related to the nardil or not) but is it ok to take any kind of pain medication?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

bump


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Although I am no expert in MAOI's it is my understanding that paracetamol (acetaminophen), ibuprofen and asprin should all be fine. The main painkillers that your going to have to avoid are the ones that raise serotonin levels such as tramadol and pethidine (although the latter is usually used in a hospital setting as far as I'm aware). 
Always tell any doctor/pharmacist/or dentist that you visit that your taking an MAOI, and it may also be worth getting a medical bracelet.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

What about opiod pain medication are they a no no?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> What about opiod pain medication are they a no no?


Pure acting opioids such as Codeine and Morphine may be ok, but check with your doctor first. However Tramadol, Demerol and Methadone should definitely be avoided at all costs.

Also you should remember to avoid the following other medications; Dextromethorphan (DXM), Pseudoephedrine, Phenylephrine, Ampetamines, Ephidrine (adrenaline) and most other Antidepressants such as SSRIs, SNRIs, TCA's, and Wellbutrin.

As well as supplements like 5-HTP, L-DOPA, L-Phenylalanine, L-Tryptophan, L-Tyrosine, St John's Wort, SAMe, and L-Theanine.

Always remember to check with your Doctor/Pharmacist before trying anything.


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> What dosage are you on john?


I've been on 90mg's since mid-february. Once in a while I'll go down to 75mgs just to see if it still works. It usually does. Then if it does 't work as well I'll bring it back up to 90 mgs.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

I took some l-theanine today lol, i didnt know it could react with a maoi but nothing happened so i guess im lucky. BTW how did you get your doctor to prescribe 90mg. My doctor acts like 60mg is the end of the road, and i feel like ill probbally need more and im going to have to fight like hell to get more.


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> Also how long did it take for it take for it to kick in and did you experience euphoria the first couple of weeks?


I would say that I had feelings of it kicking in right away but i don't think it was actually truly working that fast. it was just that it was new in my body and so i was feeling the effects of that.

now, with my experience anyway, keep in mind that while the nardil is beginning to work on your brain, it will make you feel really different before it truly begins to work. this sounds stupid, but for a while i had this this feeling of being really jaded about things. if you feel like this, don't worry it won't last long. it's kind of a weird stage.

also, you might feel at times that it's working great and then all of the sudden it's not working. keep taking your dose and you'll feel the drug working again. don't ask me why but that's just the way the drug is.

you asked about the euphoria, yes i definately went through a stage of euphoria. can't remember how long it lasted but it was probable about a month or so. about this same time, when i would take a dose, my whole body would get this warm feeling. it was really nice if i say so myself. wish that would have lasted lol


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> I took some l-theanine today lol, i didnt know it could react with a maoi but nothing happened so i guess im lucky. BTW how did you get your doctor to prescribe 90mg. My doctor acts like 60mg is the end of the road, and i feel like ill probbally need more and im going to have to fight like hell to get more.


ya know, i got very lucky with the doctor i was seeing. i saw him a few times a few years ago and then when my sa got real bad again recently i went to see him again. btw, he's a psychiatrist.

he and i discussed a lot of drugs and he knew that i had tried lots of different things in the past. he realized it wasn't worth it to try them again and waste time.

we began to talk about whether an maoi would be worth a try. i believe he was very impressed by the fact that i had done so much about maoi's (drug and food interactions). besides that he and i have always had a wonderful rapport together. i trust him and he has alot of trust in me that i can be trusted to take these drugs.

when he wrote my perscription, he hadn't prescribed an maoi in 30 years.

when it came to taking 90mgs, i told him i had read on this board that people had good luck between 60 and 90mgs. he figured i might as well take the dose that would help me the best. i know most doctors aren't that easily persuaded but mine was completely comfortable with the 90mg dosage.

just an fyi, we did some reading together out of his med. journals about nardil just to do a little more research on the drug. i feel very thankful to have found him.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

*re*

johnwithsad,
did you take the 90mg in 1 single dose? as we all know starting dose is 45mg,my shrink actually started me on 15mg as i suffer pretty bad with side effects- on all the ssris and trycylics. slowly upped em myself to 45mg with no side effects, mind you no great benefits either on my SA..i took 90mg yesterday to see how i would cope,didnt have any great feelings of benefit-made me worse in fact,tense muscles,insomnia,stomach ache, actually a lot of the side effects they list in the leaflet.so 90mg at this time is maybe a step to much.

will stick with 45mg and se my shrink in 2 weeks -hes a good guy and if i say im having no joy
im sure he will up me to 60mg-which seems a common dose to stick with.

also taking klonopin which is of great help with the SA-in fact i do wonder why i need a A/D
when the klono does its job -still after 4 years my dose has remained pretty stable.

CASTAWAY:dont be despondent that you may only ever end up with 60mg-its a good dose
and as you are still starting out will be some months before you get there anyway.
good luck.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

pete69 said:


> johnwithsad,
> did you take the 90mg in 1 single dose? as we all know starting dose is 45mg,my shrink actually started me on 15mg as i suffer pretty bad with side effects- on all the ssris and trycylics. slowly upped em myself to 45mg with no side effects, mind you no great benefits either on my SA..i took 90mg yesterday to see how i would cope,didnt have any great feelings of benefit-made me worse in fact,tense muscles,insomnia,stomach ache, actually a lot of the side effects they list in the leaflet.so 90mg at this time is maybe a step to much.
> 
> will stick with 45mg and se my shrink in 2 weeks -hes a good guy and if i say im having no joy
> ...


That's good to hear that klonopin has helped your SA so much for 4 yrs at a stable dose, may I ask how much did you take per day usually?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

how long have you been on nardil pete?


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

nardil can be a miracle drug, however, it can lose effectiveness, but it generally lasts a lot longer than benefits from SSRIs for me. the problems are orthostatic hypotension (often caused by all MAOIs), weight gain (the mechanism is really unknown but may relate to elevations GABA or an SSAO enzyme which when inhibited by phenelzine can slow the metabolism of fats), and moderate sexual dysfunction (anorgasmia). you completely lose REM sleep (this is related to serotonin), but it comes back after 6 months of treatment. then there are the food and drug interactions which you need to be careful about, but generally the food interactions have been reduced to only a shorter list of things to avoid.

The worst thing about nardil/phenelzine is that it is a hydrazine (based on a rocket fuel), and most other hydrazine drugs have been taken off the market due to being carcinogenic. you basically get a very non-specific enzyme inhibitor, so even though it works great, it's doing a lot of crap that you probably don't want, and they haven't proven it can cause cancer, but it does promote lung and liver cancers in animal models at much higher doses than people take. and it definitely will interact with liver enzymes, not the standard P450 ones so much, but the ones you see on blood tests like ALA-T.

nardil is slightly more selective for inhibiting MAO-A than MAO-B. this is generally good because MAO-A preferentially metabolizes serotonin so you get a lot more serotonin. MAO-B helps people too, so you inhibit that as well, getting more dopamine and a huge boost to this trace neurotransmitter PEA. they both will metabolize all the monoamines though, with different affinities. norepinephrine i'm not sure of, i believe a chemical called tyramine will displace norepinephrine from it's storage inside the cell. then it gets metabolized to octopamine which is weaker than norepinephrine but competes for storage in the cell, so you might actually lower norepinephrine or break even. with nardil, it increases GABA through inhibiting GABA transaminase and inducing glutamatic acid decarboxylase which might lower dopamine a bit too. so overall the effect *COULD* just be greatly increasing serotonin, GABA, and this PEA, with only modest increases in dopamine.

so it's like a huge gorilla that can beat the crap out of anxiety and depression, but it's an old-school dirty drug. MAOIs get a bad rep, but they might be safer overall than TCAs in overdose.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> That's good to hear that klonopin has helped your SA so much for 4 yrs at a stable dose, may I ask how much did you take per day usually?


 jim the most i will ever need in a single dose in a day is 3mg,so on the monday i will sink that,
tues i still feel it in me a bit so will half that to 1.5mg-wed i may have none altogether.then thur 3mg,and depends what im up to at weekend decides how much i will take-i.e if have to go shopping or whatever.but thats how i get through my working week.(self employed gardener)so not to much social interaction but enough if clients are home.

doctor wanted me to cut down with a view to coming off em. i told my shrink this and he wrote a decent letter on my behalf to doc saying i had used alcohol as a prop in the past to ease my SA and he regarded my klonopin dose to be a very safe and low dose. so i get 100 0.5mgs a month -roches as well!! they tried to issue clonazepam generic but it is far weaker and i insisted on roches-they seem to be quite understanding both doc and shrink-guess im lucky.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> how long have you been on nardil pete?


 um must be 3.5 months now mate,15mg to start-then "come and see me in 2 months" during which time i realised i wasnt having side effects and it wasnt doing much so i upped it to 30mg myself and still ok -so when i saw the shrink he was happy to go with 45mg-the usual starting dose. i tend to miss days now n then so a week before im due to see him i add an extra pill,so if i feel ok i tell him i have upped it and he then hopefully does the same!!
so gonna have a few spare before my next visit in 2 weeks so i will have 60mg for a week a see if he will keep me on that.

a mate of mine was taking 45mg with no effect so stopped em...kept picking up the scripts,
then went back taking em at 90mg for maybe 5 days in a row-he felt fantastic-was out doing stuff he never dreamed of doing on his own,with no nerves or self conciousness whatsoever-he then lowered to 60mg and is stable on that and is still getting good results.

if anyone can tell me why a sudden big dose for a week then reduceing can help so much i would love to know.

how you doing on yours cast away?


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

robotaffliction said:


> nardil can be a miracle drug, however, it can lose effectiveness, but it generally lasts a lot longer than benefits from SSRIs for me. the problems are orthostatic hypotension (often caused by all MAOIs), weight gain (the mechanism is really unknown but may relate to elevations GABA or an SSAO enzyme which when inhibited by phenelzine can slow the metabolism of fats), and moderate sexual dysfunction (anorgasmia). you completely lose REM sleep (this is related to serotonin), but it comes back after 6 months of treatment. then there are the food and drug interactions which you need to be careful about, but generally the food interactions have been reduced to only a shorter list of things to avoid.
> 
> The worst thing about nardil/phenelzine is that it is a hydrazine (based on a rocket fuel), and most other hydrazine drugs have been taken off the market due to being carcinogenic. you basically get a very non-specific enzyme inhibitor, so even though it works great, it's doing a lot of crap that you probably don't want, and they haven't proven it can cause cancer, but it does promote lung and liver cancers in animal models at much higher doses than people take. and it definitely will interact with liver enzymes, not the standard P450 ones so much, but the ones you see on blood tests like ALA-T.
> 
> ...


 **** i need to read this 20 times before i can get my head around a bit of it! are you a chemist or summin? regarding the REM sleep thats one thing im worried about on a higher dose-when i took 90mg the other day i was wide awake at 3am staring at the walls-just couldnt sleep-i could never put up with that for 6 months-no good how well people speak of nardil. have you just copied n pasted that from a shrinks website or have you inside knowledge? interesting reading thou.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Have a look here http://www.hedweb.com/gooddrug.htm near the bottom of the page, in the section called The MAO Inhibitors, if you want to read up a bit on the subject.


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

i have advanced degree in chemistry yes, but i researched it on pubmed because i've been prescribed it by my doctor. the lack of REM sleep thing has been studied, and most of the time it ends around 6 months (give or take) for most patients. 

the problem is that nardil is a commitment or a journey for everyone who takes it, so it will change with time. now the problem for me is that i can't get higher than 60mg because ive already got my REM sleep back and it's too sedating when i take a higher dose and so i'll sleep all day. then i try to go down on the dose and it's too activating after a few days (and there is this withdrawal reaction where you get vivid nightmares, it's called REM rebound), but yes, when i go back to the normal 60mg dose i get some of the original benefit back, similarly to how the high dose gives a benefit after just 5 days.

so i think it can be a wonder drug, but you could also end up like me, have the drug poop out on you, and pretty much have to marry the nardil (i guess it will wear an orange coating at the wedding ) and go back and forth between lower doses and higher doses to get some of the original helpfulness back. plus i gained 10kg, that's over 20 lbs.. i'm moving next week though, so maybe the new doctor will have a better suggestion and i can get the full divorce..


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> Have a look here http://www.hedweb.com/gooddrug.htm near the bottom of the page, in the section called The MAO Inhibitors, if you want to read up a bit on the subject.


 just been reading it-interesting points being made.
thx for the link....oh england have just bowled you guys out...the ashes are staying in england :=)


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

robotaffliction said:


> i have advanced degree in chemistry yes, but i researched it on pubmed because i've been prescribed it by my doctor. the lack of REM sleep thing has been studied, and most of the time it ends around 6 months (give or take) for most patients.
> 
> the problem is that nardil is a commitment or a journey for everyone who takes it, so it will change with time. now the problem for me is that i can't get higher than 60mg because ive already got my REM sleep back and it's too sedating when i take a higher dose and so i'll sleep all day. then i try to go down on the dose and it's too activating after a few days (and there is this withdrawal reaction where you get vivid nightmares, it's called REM rebound), but yes, when i go back to the normal 60mg dose i get some of the original benefit back, similarly to how the high dose gives a benefit after just 5 days.
> 
> so i think it can be a wonder drug, but you could also end up like me, have the drug poop out on you, and pretty much have to marry the nardil (i guess it will wear an orange coating at the wedding ) and go back and forth between lower doses and higher doses to get some of the original helpfulness back. plus i gained 10kg, that's over 20 lbs.. i'm moving next week though, so maybe the new doctor will have a better suggestion and i can get the full divorce..


rob,
thanks for your story there,has given me food for thought.especially regarding my friend who always goes to excess and is prescribed 45mg but will take 90 instead cos he thinks he will get there faster-he also has an addictive nature which doesnt help. so poop out is a real problem for him i can see it coming.

may i ask how long you have been on this med and iyo do you think me as a full time SA sufferer could enjoy a dose of 60mg and not need to ever increase with no chance of poop out? i was on seroxat many years back and it worked fine for 3.5years-the best sa free years of my life-then i stopped taking em cos i felt good-bang-tried to get the old feelings back and was never to be..


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

ps - pete, i had an identical response to your friends when the nardil worked. no worries, on top of the world, could do anything. except sleep  my doctor was willing to prescribe remeron for the sleep, it's technically a no-no (mixing MAOIs and other antidepressants) but i only needed about 7.5mg of remeron at bed time to get to sleep, so it's below the sort of "therapeutic antidepressant-level dose". low-dose propavan/propiomazine helped too (it sounds like the drug that killed MJ, but it's not, it's an antipsychotic) but i got a tolerance quickly to it.

i've been on it for 10 months... some people have taken it for years without poop-out. depends on what kind of illness you're treating. the SA effect for me was actually the first to poop out, i found myself kind of absorbed in my own little world, feeling great, but no *drive* to go out and be social, partially the sort of fear that social interaction would be a disappointment i guess, and part of it was being happy that i could concentration and get stuff done, so why bother..


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

rob when you had the on top of the world feeling what dose are we talking? like i said in a previous post i took 90 and felt nothing major apart from lack of sleep..i guess i need to take 90 more regular for benefits to kick in? he is also telling me to take coffee with em in the morning as high caffeine helps the effects-dont know what you think on that..lol im asking you as you seem more qualified than my mate whose had every pill and illegal drug under the sun and if it dont work he just abuses em. 2 days of 90-120mg he was txing me every 20mins saying this is great this is the dose you need mate stop messing around with 45mg its useless.
but i urge on the side of caution rather than him.


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

and now, well i still go to the gym at least 3 days a week - something i started during nardil to try to lose those 10kg, but i actually put on another 10 kg of muscle and lost hardly any fat, but im unmotivated to be productive and generally phobic about social interactions and sometimes find myself stuck in bed many days, or going to bed early to avoid life. 

so i guess i'm a "partial responder", i feel better about necessary social interactions but avoid unnecessary social interactions, and still can get my *** to the gym so that i don't waste away in depression. i just feel like i had a 6 month peak on the nardil and it's been downhill since. part of my problem is the depression tho, and i feel again that i'm just "going through the motions". if i was to try to give an honest intelligent answer why the meds might poop out for some people without being too scientific, i think sometimes the brain illness is a lot stronger than the powerful medicine that can be used to treat the symptoms of it.

RIGHT - the dose that "did it" for me (made life appear great like your friend's experience) was originally just 45mg, then upped to 60mg by my doctor to restore it. i guess im a little like your friend, in that i would "boost" it with caffeine and especially hot chocolate, when 60mg had pooped out. eventually though, i just hit a wall and my doctor was willing to at least allow 75mg, but at that point it just made me too tired (but i think this comes later into treatment, after you get your REM sleep back)


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

pete69 said:


> just been reading it-interesting points being made.
> thx for the link....oh england have just bowled you guys out...the ashes are staying in england :=)


No problem, actually heres a thread on here made by a guy whos been on nardil for 9 years, he goes into his experience in quite alot of detail. http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nine-years-on-nardil-6422/


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

seems you suffer with sa and depression then? ive never been depressed so i guess im blessed on that part but still got dealt the SA card. im kinda glad you felt relief on 45mg then at 60mg-thought you was gonna say 90-120mg! i really dont think my shrink will up it anymore than 60mg-i had a job to get on it-i tried all the ssris-trycylics,and he would only try the nardil if all other meds failed.
maybe i didnt give certain ones long enough..moclobemide for instance-but i hate nervous side effects as i have to face people at work and i always want to hide the fact i look or appear nervous.
luckily the nardil has had no bad effects at 45mg so i will plod on-looking back actually-its only been 8 years since my first A/D so at the ripe old age of 44 i have survived life without em -valium and now klonopin and been mainly present but hey i got by.

hang in there rob and keep positive
cheers for your replys


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> No problem, actually heres a thread on here made by a guy whos been on nardil for 9 years, he goes into his experience in quite alot of detail. http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nine-years-on-nardil-6422/


 an excellent read! just got through 2 pages-7 to go-i will save that for later.
is that guy still about posting on here? 3 years old that thread.


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

pete69 said:


> seems you suffer with sa and depression then? ive never been depressed so i guess im blessed on that part but still got dealt the SA card. im kinda glad you felt relief on 45mg then at 60mg-thought you was gonna say 90-120mg! i really dont think my shrink will up it anymore than 60mg-i had a job to get on it-i tried all the ssris-trycylics,and he would only try the nardil if all other meds failed.
> maybe i didnt give certain ones long enough..moclobemide for instance-but i hate nervous side effects as i have to face people at work and i always want to hide the fact i look or appear nervous.
> luckily the nardil has had no bad effects at 45mg so i will plod on-looking back actually-its only been 8 years since my first A/D so at the ripe old age of 44 i have survived life without em -valium and now klonopin and been mainly present but hey i got by.
> 
> ...


thanks! yeah i think i have medication sensitivities due to depression, and also have had seizures due to other medications that were fairly effective up to that point (effexor). i do have klonopin prescribed, but i can't take it because it makes me a depressed zombie (and the nardil kind of boosts that zombie effect and i sleep all day). i think when the dust settles (you're no longer "on top of the world" and sleep fairly normally) nardil is actually kind of like a better klonopin, and it is probably perfect for SA, at least minus the weight gain, which i mostly stopped caring about.

keep in mind also that the effect of the nardil dose taken today lasts up to (or more than) 2 weeks. i read a case study where there was a near-fatal "serotonin syndrome" caused by switching someone from nardil to an SSRI after 2 weeks washout of being nardil-free. so nardil really is a commitment.

cheers!

PS - have you tried neurontin (gabapentin)? i have been curious as to which effects of nardil are due to the MAOI effect and which are due to its effect on GABA (the same target as the benzodiazepines, and probably why the sedation is giving me such a hard time now that I'm used to the MAOI effects).. if i'm going to jump off the MAOI train, i figured this might be one way to go about it


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

rob,
have not tried neurontin, thats intersting you say nardil is like klono but better,so me having both i should be on top of the world! funny how i aint.
yeah i heard that u have to have 2weeks wash out of nardil before starting a ssri.
so my 90mg is still lurking away in there-had a break yesterday and taken 45mg today.
hoping my shrink will up it to 60 so i can take med breaks and have a few good doses inbetween.

just had my mate on the phone again-he was at wits end last summer and tried to commit suicide-been a long year but now with nardil he said its like ive been given a injection of happiness!! ok he is taking 90 prety regular but hey hes out on the town in brighton on his own drinking so goes to show its completly rid him of his sa at the mo.
i do worry about insomnia but im gonna get some nytol and hope that will help the rem.
cheers


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

yea i thought the nardil is better than the pins, but as a replacement not together. i couldn't tell ya if ud benefit from them together, i definitely didn't. the pins were great alone though, but with the nardil i thought they just made the nardil side effects worse (stuff like stomach ache and insomnia actually got worse for me with the pins!), but some people get good benefit from them together. plus i meant great for SA, not for inducing euphoria  if your measure of relief from SA is feeling on top of the world, you might have low-grade depression (dysthymia) as well.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

"if your measure of relief from SA is feeling on top of the world, you might have low-grade depression (dysthymia) as well."
well to be honest i never expect that-maybe im thinking how my mate is feeling right now-for me it would be to sit round a table and eat a meal with my family without needing tranx.going to a pub without having to have a few cans before. etc etc-no im deffo not after a high from this med.actually im worried i do get over hyped as im sure it wouldnt go unnoticed amongst my work clients.

just not worrying and being so self concious would be enough.
do you ever go to the pub alone for a swift pint? if i go to a pub alone to say watch a football match-i sink 3 pints so quick to stop feeling mr self concious--then of course i start to unwind and everyones my friend. feel great for a few hours but hangovers and anxiety are not a match made in heaven! the next day is wiped off the calendar.

since the age of 16 when i first got this condition i have not had a day when it wasnt to far from my thoughts...i just want to be free


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

yea that does sound like classic social anxiety to me. depression is more like this for me - go to the pub (sometimes with a couple pals from work), have a couple pints and feel pretty good, but never really open up or talk to anyone else in the bar, even if im out watching a game on the TV by myself (which is more in line with the classic SA). but sometimes i'll drink too much, get dysphoric (like things are a waste of time and i actually feel worse, not better from drinking) and go home before everyone else, this is more the depressive part. so i mean there's a number of components, it might be worth asking what each medication helps with:

anticipatory anxiety: anxiety knowing that the social situation is coming up or thinking about going into that party or family event. at some point this turns into social _phobia_, where it's just too much anxiety and you avoid the situation completely

fight-or-flight response: the sort of immediate fear when you are actually in the situation, like a panic attack or a need to escape and feeling really uncomfortable in the immediate situation.

what doesn't really fit into the classic picture tho is the idea that you need a mental lift (such as the hyperactivity part of the nardil) in order to get motivated to try some new social situation. this becomes more a case of the depressive spectrum of things, i.e., social avoidance due to a melancholic outlook on life or lack of energy (such as chronic fatigue, or a sort of physical body depression). in some cases other disorders like ADD can cause SA-like symptoms too (if people don't think you're paying attention when they talk, many will probably get frustrated and make you feel bad about being a flake, and as a consequence you'll avoid social interactions with new people)

so i guess the conclusion im trying to make is that you probably don't need a huge dose of nardil to give you a blast out of anxiety, and probably the only real reason you'd end up needing something like 90mg/day for pure SA is due to possible poop-out at lower doses. if taking 90mg a few days for a quick boost of happiness helps a lot, then there might be a depression component to it all.



pete69 said:


> "if your measure of relief from SA is feeling on top of the world, you might have low-grade depression (dysthymia) as well."
> well to be honest i never expect that-maybe im thinking how my mate is feeling right now-for me it would be to sit round a table and eat a meal with my family without needing tranx.going to a pub without having to have a few cans before. etc etc-no im deffo not after a high from this med.actually im worried i do get over hyped as im sure it wouldnt go unnoticed amongst my work clients.
> 
> just not worrying and being so self concious would be enough.
> ...


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

UPDATE:

It will 2 weeks tommowow and so far i dont feel anything. No results or side effects ( i wasnt expecting to see results yet though). Ive ate cheese and other no no's in moderation. Ive also been drunk off my *** with vodka. Im going back to the shrink in a month and ill probbally move up to 60mg. BTW does anybody have any experience with nardil and marijuana?


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> It will 2 weeks tommowow and so far i dont feel anything. No results or side effects ( i wasnt expecting to see results yet though). Ive ate cheese and other no no's in moderation. Ive also been drunk off my *** with vodka. Im going back to the shrink in a month and ill probbally move up to 60mg. BTW does anybody have any experience with nardil and marijuana?


 nope 2 weeks is nothing as im sure your aware, alcohol is never a problem apart from red wine,why did you chose to get wrecked on vodka so early on in your nardil? maybe have a couple to see if you got any unwanted effects...each to there own thou.

regarding the marijuana there is a good link on page 1 of this thread about a guy who has been on nardil 9 years..pages 7,8,9, there is talk of taking marijuana and nardil.
its a great read -someone who has lived n breathed nardil for 9 years and how he describes it all-should be a novel-man i would buy it!

what dose you on now 45mg?


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

"so i guess the conclusion im trying to make is that you probably don't need a huge dose of nardil to give you a blast out of anxiety, and probably the only real reason you'd end up needing something like 90mg/day for pure SA is due to possible poop-out at lower doses. if taking 90mg a few days for a quick boost of happiness helps a lot, then there might be a depression component to it all."

Rob,
i think you have hit the nail on the head there,im not looking for a blast out of my anxiety.
its pretty stable anxiety-i cope with it,i know if an event is coming up i wont worry for weeks because i have my klonos-will never let me down-now if you was to say ditch the klonos and give the nardil a chance on its own-well i would be a nervous wreck!

i have not felt relaxed on them,i have not had any side effects thou but i guess im still waiting for the "hit" -im not easily lead-90mg everyday and no sleep..no way-i need to sleep,and no med is worth losing sleep over.
hopefully i will be put up to 60mg in 2 weeks-this is a dose i feel\should be of use.
have read posts of many peeps on nardil and 60 is mentioned 80% of the time.

i mentioned my mate who is SA and been sectioned a couple of times-like i say he keeps ranting on about 90mg a day and take a strong coffee with it-i hear him talking over the phone sounding drunk-its not the high im looking for-i can try it for 3 days over a weekend sure and see if i get that but i wouldnt live everyday on that euphoria.

cheers for your input again..you talk a lot of sense and i appreciate it

pete


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Yup im 45mg pete, Yeah i did take it slow on the vodka then got wrecked later on. I was dreading that first nardil pill so bad because i thought i was going to go through hell there at first but i guess the side effects will probbally come later on (crosses fingers). Pete Did you have side effects before the results of the drug?


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

nope no side effects whatsoever-as i said previously-i took 90mg last week and felt no great benefit-but come the evening i felt more tense and my sleep was totally messed up.
if you read the link to a guy who wrote about it in this thread he gives ways of getting around the insomnia bit when it does kick in.

like you i have been drinking on em -mainly a sat night binge with no probs-apart from the obvious SA hangover-i take a valium for hangovers and it aint so bad.

hang in there!

cheers


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

The other night when i got drunk on nardil i had no hangover which is odd. I dont think nardil had anything whatsoever to do with it but i ussually get hangovers. But it was pretty awesome to not have a hangover. I tried to do everything to not get one such as not eating and drinking lots of warm gatorade around the drinking and getting lots of sleep.

BTW pete have you ever drank redbull on nardil?


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## jasonl34 (Feb 7, 2006)

I thought you could drink liquor, just not beer from a keg. 

I just came off zoloft after being at 200mg for 2 months and going on nardil as well on my next appointment.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

You can drink alcohol jason. Read the posts above.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Also what about loratab pete, i saw you mentioned some opiods but you didnt mention loratab


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> Also what about loratab pete, i saw you mentioned some opiods but you didnt mention loratab


Morphine, codeine, oxycodone, buprenorphine should not precipitate serotonin toxicity with monoamine oxidase inhibitors. The phenylpiperidine series opioids, pethidine (meperidine), tramadol, methadone and fentanyl, and d-propoxyphene on the other hand, do have the capacity to cause serotonin toxicity with monoamine oxidase inhibitors.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

K i kinda need that in english, and you didnt say anything about hydrocodone but im guessing its ok?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Not sure because the paper I was referencing didn't mention it, but just to be safe check with your pharmacist ok? It will probly also depend on what else is in the tablet your taking besides pure hydrocodone.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

"BTW pete have you ever drank redbull on nardil? "

not on nardil no-it will only increase the effect im guessing-coffee\caffeine will increase the effects of nardil so maybes half hour after your dose have a strong coffee-i did it this morning,had 45mg in single dose,had coffee half hour later-went out with g/f out n about,and felt quite positive-was chattin to people at bootsale like they was family,and in supermarket felt no sa at all about checkout and handing money over...no klonopin either today!
im not saying the nardil has suddenly made me mr no fear but it has helped even if in a minor capacity,having said that supermarkets n checkouts always make me aggitated so maybe im not giving the nardil enough credit...it could be kicking in 

also reread the posts ive been having with robertaffliction, 90mg is a high dose-if your sa is manageable and you just want to be a bit more social 45-60mg will be a good dose.
taking 90mg everyday you will be suffering all the side effects,and you will be quite hyper.
the least you can get away with the better.

keep us informed on your progress..i will update if shrink ups my dose on 11th aug

cheers


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

2 1/2 weeks now. Its sucks taking a med that you have to sit and wait for to work. BTW what happened to rocknroll i havnt seen him on here and was intrested how he was coming along.


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

You could maybe say the same about Euphoria but I think they are both testing certain medications too


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

This is a bit off topic, but after reading that nardil's side effects may include urinary retention, constipation and blurry vision, I'm curious, if anybody knows, does nardil contain anticholinergic properties?


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## gillettecavalcad3 (Jul 9, 2009)

*Nardil*

I am moving on to Nardil. Get this, My pdoc thinks nothing of writing a prescription for Nardil but is really not to keen on my prescription for Clonazepam. I have been on clonazepam for over 5 years, ....never had to up the dosage, ......and it works wonders for my social anxiety PRN with propranolol, .....I think these two drugs work really well together. I want to add adderall to this mix. I will see how the Nardil goes.

As long as I have a prescription for Klonopin and Propranolol then anythng else is a bonus really.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I am moving on to Nardil. Get this, My pdoc thinks nothing of writing a prescription for Nardil but is really not to keen on my prescription for Clonazepam. I have been on clonazepam for over 5 years, ....never had to up the dosage, ......and it works wonders for my social anxiety PRN with propranolol, .....I think these two drugs work really well together. I want to add adderall to this mix. I will see how the Nardil goes.
> 
> As long as I have a prescription for Klonopin and Propranolol then anythng else is a bonus really.


What dosage of Klonopin do you usually use, and what time of the day do you usually take it?


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

gillettecavalcad3 said:


> I am moving on to Nardil. Get this, My pdoc thinks nothing of writing a prescription for Nardil but is really not to keen on my prescription for Clonazepam. I have been on clonazepam for over 5 years, ....never had to up the dosage, ......and it works wonders for my social anxiety PRN with propranolol, .....I think these two drugs work really well together. I want to add adderall to this mix. I will see how the Nardil goes.
> 
> As long as I have a prescription for Klonopin and Propranolol then anythng else is a bonus really.


 my shrink was the other way round-was keen i tried every ssri,srni,tryc,before he put me on nardil,i had heard it was far superior to the other meds for treating SA so i never gave the others a chance..they all apart from prozac gave me shakes and muscle rigidity,not great for someone trying to hide there sa and carry on with life.

the clonos he was fine with-my gp was trying to get me to lower my dose in a view to quitting-told my shrink my lifestory..alcohol used in early days etc etc-he wrote to gp and said my dose was a safe one and he was happy for me to carry on with it indenfinetly-"i consider it far safer than alcohol" so yeah like i said in a post earlier,dosage has remained pretty stable and i could live with having clonos alone..as you say,the nardil is a bonus.
45mg for me has no side effects-and i now feel more confident if taken without klonos,after 3 months something might be happening! seeing the old boy on tues so im hoping for a 60mg dose.
1 thing i have found is if i take the whole 45mg in the morning,i feel a bit more confident and talkative,but im buggered with sleep,if i try and have a afternoon catnap i cant and i shall probs get a on off 4 hours tonight....if i take 1 in morning and 2 at 9pmish my sleep is fine...everyones different i guess.


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## gillettecavalcad3 (Jul 9, 2009)

*Clonazepam*

Jim, .....I am prescribed 2mg daily, but as I said in my previous post, I don't take them everyday so I can stockpile them and If I have a major event/party or work meeting I can easily up it to 3mg. I take this with 40mg of propranolol which I am suppose to take 3 times daily prn. I will see how the Nardil goes before suggesting Adderall to my pdoc.

Benzo tolerance is not a problem for me as I have been on this same dosage for 5 - 6 years and it has not lost it's efficacy one bit. One weird thing I should mention, .....my thought process is amazing on clonazepam and I am able to coherently hold up a good debate or just generally hold a good conversation.

Like someone else mentioned, .....I don't really know why I need an AD if these drugs are working so well, .....but like I said the Nardil is a bonus. I am very tolerant of drugs so the dietary restrictions aren't something I am really worried too much about, .....as long I stay away from the major no no's. I am a reliable person hence the reason I have built up a great relationship with my pdoc, ....and the trust is there. I don't drink anymore, ....haven't for over a year. So it's all good.

pete69 glad to hear that the Nardil is starting to show some benefits.

*forgot to mention Jim, .....I take my Clonazepam in the morning. But I gain the benefits all day.*


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

pete69 said:


> my shrink was the other way round-was keen i tried every ssri,srni,tryc,before he put me on nardil,i had heard it was far superior to the other meds for treating SA so i never gave the others a chance..they all apart from prozac gave me shakes and muscle rigidity,not great for someone trying to hide there sa and carry on with life.
> 
> the clonos he was fine with-my gp was trying to get me to lower my dose in a view to quitting-told my shrink my lifestory..alcohol used in early days etc etc-he wrote to gp and said my dose was a safe one and he was happy for me to carry on with it indenfinetly-"i consider it far safer than alcohol" so yeah like i said in a post earlier,dosage has remained pretty stable and i could live with having clonos alone..as you say,the nardil is a bonus.
> 45mg for me has no side effects-and i now feel more confident if taken without klonos,after 3 months something might be happening! seeing the old boy on tues so im hoping for a 60mg dose.
> 1 thing i have found is if i take the whole 45mg in the morning,i feel a bit more confident and talkative,but im buggered with sleep,if i try and have a afternoon catnap i cant and i shall probs get a on off 4 hours tonight....if i take 1 in morning and 2 at 9pmish my sleep is fine...everyones different i guess.


Klonopin in the UK? wtf... I was under the impression both xanax and klonopin were not used in the UK at all. I enquired this to several doctors and they told me they are not licensed here.

You know this actually is rather confusing. On a lot of anxiety boards I've visited I've seen some people say xanax is definitely not used in the UK (as well as Klonopin) and then others say they can get it from their doc. WTF is going on? :blank

Sorry to go off topic.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

RockiNToM said:


> Klonopin in the UK? wtf... I was under the impression both xanax and klonopin were not used in the UK at all. I enquired this to several doctors and they told me they are not licensed here.
> 
> You know this actually is rather confusing. On a lot of anxiety boards I've visited I've seen some people say xanax is definitely not used in the UK (as well as Klonopin) and then others say they can get it from their doc. WTF is going on? :blank
> 
> Sorry to go off topic.


They may not be licensed, but psychs/docs can prescribe on an "off-licence" basis which means they're much more liable if things go wrong. They'd probably have to give appropriate justification to superiors also.

All this means it matters greatly whether your doc is competent vs. incompetent, and cautious vs. liberal & fearless. Basically, with most docs there will have to be a clear "exceptional" circumstance for prescription of non-licenced drugs, or a very demonstrable safety record and simply lagging licensing authorities (as long as they're not the obsessively rule-bound type).

It seems such prescriptions often require a lot of convincing to acquire, which is unfortunate for the schizoid SA guys like me who are very ineffective communicators.

Going back to benzos, here in the UK you aren't gonna get a long-term script just handed to you as you go in the door, but benzos are viewed favourably in short-term anxiety management, and if you tell them you just need them a few times a week for presentations or similar, I don't see them putting up much of a fight. They may opt for beta-blockers instead though, which would be fair enough.


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## gillettecavalcad3 (Jul 9, 2009)

*Clonazepam in the UK*

I'm in the UK and get prescribed Clonazepam. I imagine it is pretty rare. But I have a long history with my pdoc and there is a great element of trust there. I agree with euphoria in the sense that I only take them as needed and not everyday, ......that is why the efficacy is always there for me. I don't have an addictive personality and don't feel the need to take them everyday. I think this makes it easier for my pdoc to prescribe them. I get Clonazepam and Propranolol for prm. I was going to look into adderall also, .......but there is no way on earth i'm going to get that on the nhs.

We have talked about Nardil and Parnate due to there gamma aminobutyric acid properties. That is why the Clonazepam work so well for me. My brain doesn't produce enough gaba me thinks.

As long as I am prescribed clonazepam and propranalol then anything else is a bonus, ....because the two drugs work a treat together.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

very briefly i got rivotril(clonaz) from a neurologist-i went to him about all my neck tension etc i thought my sa was maybe provoked by constant muscle tension-hence i wanted to see if there was something going on..he did a few tests and i told him about my sa-he said it was purely the sa causing the rigid muscles ..he asked if i took anything for it-i said clonazepam helps (a mate had done an order o/p and gave me a few)-he then wrote a script for 30 tabs a month 0.5mg...then out of the blue i went to pick up repeat a few months later and it had been upped to 100 0.5mg a month!...this has been the dose i get for 4 years now..

i had to pick up script from gps last month and have annual review-gp was on holiday so i saw a locum who said "so you take this for epilepsy yes?" obviously couldnt be arsed to read through 500 pages of my mental past! i said no SA and he just carried on writing out a new one..review in jan 2010.... now my shrink is on my side the gp has no authority over him so i will be on it untill he decides otherwise...


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

whoa, lucky or maybe not? I don't know. For people who know how to make sure they aren't going to be dependent on them it probably works wonders, but for people who are perhaps not. I guess it's lucky you know what you are doing and are 'aware' of the addiction issues, whereas a lot of people aren't. Otherwise you could say the doctor was being a bit irresponsible or a very good doctor lol.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

gillettecavalcad3 said:


> Jim, .....I am prescribed 2mg daily, but as I said in my previous post, I don't take them everyday so I can stockpile them and If I have a major event/party or work meeting I can easily up it to 3mg. I take this with 40mg of propranolol which I am suppose to take 3 times daily prn. I will see how the Nardil goes before suggesting Adderall to my pdoc.
> 
> Benzo tolerance is not a problem for me as I have been on this same dosage for 5 - 6 years and it has not lost it's efficacy one bit. One weird thing I should mention, .....my thought process is amazing on clonazepam and I am able to coherently hold up a good debate or just generally hold a good conversation.
> 
> ...


That's great to hear that the clonazepam is working for you. It's amazing that you can take 3 mg in the morning and have a clear thought process, drive and even stay awake haha.

I find it makes me groggy, but thats possibly just because I havnt been on it for long enough.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

yup i can take 3mg and go and do a days gardening-i feel confident in clients places, it must be because of the length of time we have been on it. i still will fall asleep once i get home thou-have been known to be chattin away with mug of tea in hand n boom im nodding off while talking! also i tend to snore so much more when ive had the 3mg.

back to the nardil thread...whats all this about not getting sleep when ive taken 45mg in one dose but if i split doses my sleep is fine.....any thoughts guys?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

3 1/2 weeks into nardil, still at 45 mg no results or side effects. Anticipation of rather a drug is going to work or not is killing me.


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

You probably won't feel much until you're dose is increased to at least 60 or 75mg.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

ive been upped to 60mg since yesterday-so hopefully will see more improvements-45mg was starting to do something-more chatty and open-less nervous in general

give it time i have been on 45mg for 3months so it takes time but worth it.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Im happy to report that the nardil has kicked in. Greatly reduced anxiety and a improved mood has came 2 days before the one month mark( one month today). Maybe just slight euphoria, I think some people might confuse the Euphoria with just the fact that their depressed anxious state is over. Im taking 45mg so maybe thats why im not experiencing alot of euphoria. 

Anyways just wanted to report back with the good news.


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

Cast Away said:


> Im happy to report that the nardil has kicked in. Greatly reduced anxiety and a improved mood has came 2 days before the one month mark( one month today). Maybe just slight euphoria, I think some people might confuse the Euphoria with just the fact that their depressed anxious state is over. Im taking 45mg so maybe thats why im not experiencing alot of euphoria.
> 
> Anyways just wanted to report back with the good news.


well good that you have an _initial_ response, but hold onto your seat, 1 month probably means it still hasn't fully kicked in yet 

things to watch out for as you go ahead are particularly insomnia.. i think 45mg was enough of a dose to induce euphoria for me, but it depends on a lot of factors (individual unknowns and knowns including body weight), when I first took it I was about 70-75kg, so 45mg would be considered low for me (1mg/kg is standard in a lot of literature)


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

I didnt think weight made a difference, but idk anyways my weight is 220.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

pleased that your nardil has finally kicked in-4 days ago you was moaning!! just shows how another day you can wake up n feel different huh.

yeah i think weight gain is an issue-i seem to have put on a few pounds round the stomach-you could say a beer belly but i only binge once a fortnight so not the beer.

insomnia was a problem when i took my dose all at once-seems to have lessened since i take 2 in morning and 2 at bedtime...also i noticed that it was working because i suddenly couldnt 
ejaculate for the life of me,ive heard its a s/e that will eventually go but none the less sometimes you just wanna let it flow! obviously the g/f isnt complaining! but all work n no joy for me .ah well getting rid of nerves is way more important in the short term.

are you still on 45mg? if so you reckon shrink will up it to 60


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Nardil is dangerous imo but so is driving intoxicated. anyway keep us updated Cast Away.


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

Cast Away said:


> I didnt think weight made a difference, but idk anyways my weight is 220.


the MAO-A enzyme is expressed throughout the body, so body weight should make a difference. unfortunately nardil isn't targetting the MAO in the brain directly so the total amount of MAO relative to the amount of inhibitor is important.

MAO-B is expressed more specifically (i believe in the plasma and brain), but generally MAO-A inhibition has the stronger antidepressant effect, with an extra boost due to MAO-B inhibition. selegiline, for example, is dosed rather high to get an antidepressant effect, at doses where it inhibits both homologues of the MAO enzyme, and the MAO-B inhibition alone is usually only useful for parkinson's disease.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Yeah my psychiatrist said 60mg would be the end of the road but i think i can pull 75mg out of him ( im pretty good at convincing people sometimes).

BTW how long would it take for me to notice a difference in the dosage after i up it to 60mg. What im trying to say is if i know im going to have a tough day can i take an extra pill that day or the day before?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

5 weeks tommowow. Enjoying not having to tote benzos with me. 45mg of nardil hasnt destroyed my anxiety but it sure is helping. On the days i take my benzos with my nardil my anxiety is............ what anxiety. Its destroys all my anxiety. I am somewhat sedated on those days though. Im looking forward to taking 60mg of nardil.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> 5 weeks tommowow. Enjoying not having to tote benzos with me. 45mg of nardil hasnt destroyed my anxiety but it sure is helping. On the days i take my benzos with my nardil my anxiety is............ what anxiety. Its destroys all my anxiety. I am somewhat sedated on those days though. Im looking forward to taking 60mg of nardil.


 yup im having exactly the same reaction-just been increased to 60mg but i feel that has really not kicked in to its full potential.i have noticed my intake of klonos has reduced and when combined yup what anxiety....its a diff feeling from taking klonos alone-just so confident
and when i have taken my nardil alone ive been doing things i always took a klono or 2 for.

also find when i take my 2 in the morning im very chatty and social,doesnt last all day but a good 4 hours i feel ok...not sure if taking my other 2 at night is worth it-considering taking all 4 in morning and getting a super few hours in!!

ok side effects-slight weight gain round stomach..beer? nah i only binge once a fortnight so its the nard, erm ejaculation is harder-pardon the pun,really really need to concentrate as there seems to be a lack of feeling sexually,....rem sleep is ok im sleeping like i always did-seem to stay up later but if ive had klono in day sleep patterns normal.

my psych is impressed with results as ive been lacking in results with everything else he threw at me-so this is excellent

castaway keep us informed of your progress.

cheers


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Yup it seems like 45mg of nardil dosnt knock out the anxiety nor does 2mg of klonopin, but combine them and your good


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Upped my dosage today to 60mg


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Good luck and keep us updated.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Does anybody know how long it will be before i notice the dosage increase?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Are Beta Blockers off limits with Nardil? Medline i know you should know.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Just wanted to report nardil is in full force. I feel great. just over 5 weeks on 45mg and almost a week on 60 mg.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

nice one castaway, im about 2 weeks in on 60mg-have noticed an increase in side effects if i have not taken klonos -shakiness n tremor-klono usage is down but dont feel any different from taking 45mg-like you im hoping it just kicks in suddenly-how often are you using klonos and what dose?

cheers


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## John Smith (Jul 14, 2009)

Cast Away said:


> Just wanted to report nardil is in full force. I feel great. just over 5 weeks on 45mg and almost a week on 60 mg.


Can you go into this further? What have you been able to do/exactly what does it feel like? How could you tell the difference?


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

I could tell the difference after 4 days on 60mg. I started feeling slightly euphoric( kind of like a small recreational dose of opiate pain medication) and hypomania, getting less sleep and being more driven. Its hard to give a good report when im in the euphoric stages. The strange thing about nardil is it works all the time but best after you take a pill. In between doses theres no real euphoria to speak of.

BTW im not really experiencing any side effects to speak of.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

yup i get the euphoria feeling after maybe 10mins,feel like you wanna clean the whole house!
this is not like a mad drug rave just your more alert and want to be active,tends to die down after an hour and your not so obvious of the signs.
hoping the side effects bog off soon so i can feel the better side of nardil without all the other crap.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Cast Away said:


> I could tell the difference after 4 days on 60mg. I started feeling slightly euphoric( kind of like a small recreational dose of opiate pain medication) and hypomania, getting less sleep and being more driven. Its hard to give a good report when im in the euphoric stages. The strange thing about nardil is it works all the time but best after you take a pill. In between doses theres no real euphoria to speak of.
> 
> BTW im not really experiencing any side effects to speak of.


Sounds like the dopamines starting to kick in.


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## John Smith (Jul 14, 2009)

Could it be used to treat ADD? Does it help motivation ie. actually give you the energy to do rather than to daydream?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Theoretically atleast, yes it could be viewed as a holistic approach to treating depression/anxiety disorders/OCD/ADD/ADHD.


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## robotaffliction (Jul 24, 2009)

There's always an SSRI (or TCA) plus stimulant for a combination approach to depression/OCD/SA/ADHD. when i first did phenelzine i didn't get bad orthostatic hypotension, but im trying it a second time and it's pretty sucky.. im not sure if its because of the mechanism noted in wikipedia (tyramine-octapamine interaction) or something else


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## John Smith (Jul 14, 2009)

When I briefly tried moclobemide + selegiline I felt happier and more confident in general after a week or two. The effect seemed to be still building. This didn't happen with selegiline alone. Neither of these had any effect on ADD and I got virtually nothing done so I decided to go off them. I tried Zoloft after that for the last couple of weeks and I have no effect whatsoever from it, confirming that SSRIs are completely useless for me.

Since the only thing that has successfully helped my ADD is dexamphetamine, it seems like I can only treat ADD or social motivation separately.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

John Smith said:


> Since the only thing that has successfully helped my ADD is dexamphetamine, it seems like I can only treat ADD or social motivation separately.


have you tried ritalin, or a high dose of wellbutrin?


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## John Smith (Jul 14, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> have you tried ritalin, or a high dose of wellbutrin?


Not Ritalin but I've tried 450mg of bupropion. Not really effective.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Ritalin might be worth a try for ADD.


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## John Smith (Jul 14, 2009)

Dex is basically a stronger version of Ritalin as far as I know, except it also releases monoamines rather than simply blocking their reuptake. It also has a shorter half life.

My doctor doesn't use Ritalin since he says it's not as effective in his experience.


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

Week 7

Doing well, Nardil is a little different then i imagined. I didnt think you would be thinking about that next pill like i do with benzos but you kinda do. When i take 2 in the morning and 2 at night the effects seem to where off in the late afternoon/evening and the 2 i take at night are wearing off by mid morning. So i lose the best of the effects are lost throughout sleep. So instead i take 2 when i get up one at lunch and the other in the afternoon and it seems like it has to build up a little and is working pretty good throughout the day. The only problem with this is its not working ( or atleast the effects are really subtle ) so i have to deal with a hour or two of being anxious unless im on my benzos. 

So thats what im experincing. The thing is im experiencing no side effects to speak of, the thing i was scared of. This makes me think im fine to move up to 75mg.


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

""and the 2 i take at night are wearing off by mid morning. So i lose the best of the effects are lost throughout sleep."" 

but the two you take on waking in morning will surely boost it back up again,why would the night ones be wearing off-you wouldnt notice that surely? its all trial and error and the ones i take at night just make me shaky by morning-in fact i still feel pretty shaky on 60mg-this i hear will wear off in time so it aint a problem.

maybe have 3 in morning and 1 about 7pm-see how u go? 3 could be a bit to much weyhey but worth a try


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

i should probbally take at least one at night


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## pete69 (May 9, 2008)

how are you doing now on nardil castaway??


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