# nardil finally "really' working



## joshyboy (Jun 17, 2013)

hey everyone, just wanna say thanks for all the advice from everyone especially my chopsuey and other, my euphoria came and went, post-euphoric crash is done and now i'm feeling the real effects finally, i just wanna ask some advice about how everyone keeps it from a tolerance and it losing its potency. Right now, i'm on 75, but i think i wanna up it to 90 and then twice a week come back down to 75, i hear fluctuating works, any ideas or tips for how to keep the nardil going strong?


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

if it's working then stick to what you are doing already. Shouldn't need to fluctuate unless there are some bad side effects to avoid like bad hypotension.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

joshyboy said:


> hey everyone, just wanna say thanks for all the advice from everyone especially my chopsuey and other, my euphoria came and went, post-euphoric crash is done and now i'm feeling the real effects finally, i just wanna ask some advice about how everyone keeps it from a tolerance and it losing its potency. Right now, i'm on 75, but i think i wanna up it to 90 and then twice a week come back down to 75, i hear fluctuating works, any ideas or tips for how to keep the nardil going strong?


glad its working for you buddy, i think you are on the 5th week? If its working for you I would play with the dose since it takes a full 8 weeks or more to show its real effect.


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

joshyboy said:


> hey everyone, just wanna say thanks for all the advice from everyone especially my chopsuey and other, my euphoria came and went, post-euphoric crash is done and now i'm feeling the real effects finally, i just wanna ask some advice about how everyone keeps it from a tolerance and it losing its potency. Right now, i'm on 75, but i think i wanna up it to 90 and then twice a week come back down to 75, i hear fluctuating works, any ideas or tips for how to keep the nardil going strong?


It sounds like you've really cranked up the dose recently, I'm still at 45mg and doing great. Have the sexual side effects kicked in yet? I'd be very careful going too high as some MAO is needed to metabloize phenelzine and is also necessary for the gaba T inhibitor effect. If you go too high you could lose all effect, and not be able to cycle back down. As it destroys MAO faster than it can be generated you can't really 'cycle' as you say. Increasing to 90mg/day and then decreasing to 75, will really mean continuing at 90mg. The main reason for quitting is it 'pooping out and side effects. Reach an effective dose and stay there. Also do not use any other supplements (e.g too much B6) as this will render phenelzine ineffective.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Mans, I sure wish there was a quote somewhere here right now.. I'm quote lonely..

"Phenelzine (unlike tranylcypromine) may be metabolised by acetylation which shows great genetic variation. The possible implication of this is the dose may have to be greatly varied between patients depending on their genetic acetylater status. A further difference and potential complication is that phenelzine has non-linear pharmacokinetics because it both blocks, and is metabolised by, monoamine oxidase."

Oh, happy day! Happy day, indeed!

But alas, how could this magnificent wall of quotage POSSIBLY be any relevant to the previous post's slander of a "proper dose", and ever prevalent 'you're doing it wrong!' tone.
To this, I weep..

"The possible implication of this is the dose may have to be greatly varied between patients depending on their genetic acetylater status."

GOOD SHOW! GOOD SHOW!


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Holy tata's on fire.. Somebody besides me look at the view count of this 1 day old thread RIGHT NOW. Let me know when you've died from flabbergast overdose.


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Mans, I sure wish there was a quote somewhere here right now.. I'm quote lonely..
> 
> "Phenelzine (unlike tranylcypromine) may be metabolised by acetylation which shows great genetic variation. The possible implication of this is the dose may have to be greatly varied between patients depending on their genetic acetylater status. A further difference and potential complication is that phenelzine has non-linear pharmacokinetics because it both blocks, and is metabolised by, monoamine oxidase."
> 
> ...


Just talking from personal experience. The biggest reason people eventually quit is due to increasing the dose too far, too fast. With increased doses you get a lesser return of GABA activity and more side effects, I'm assuming generally resulting from more serotonergic activity. As MAO regeneration is slower than degredation due to phenelzine cycling the dose is not feasbile.

i.e if 75mg results in 80% inhibition MAO, increasing this to 90mg for a reasonable period of time may mean 85% inhibition. By decreasing this again to 75, you will still get around 85% inhibition, with lesser GABAergic effects and more side effects. so there


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Holy tata's on fire.. Somebody besides me look at the view count of this 1 day old thread RIGHT NOW. Let me know when you've died from flabbergast overdose.


Stop hitting refresh


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

0707129r said:


> Just talking from personal experience. The biggest reason people eventually quit is due to increasing the dose too far, too fast. With increased doses you get a lesser return of GABA activity and more side effects, I'm assuming generally resulting from more serotonergic activity. As MAO regeneration is slower than degredation due to phenelzine cycling the dose is not feasbile.
> 
> i.e if 75mg results in 80% inhibition MAO, increasing this to 90mg for a reasonable period of time may mean 85% inhibition. By decreasing this again to 75, you will still get around 85% inhibition, with lesser GABAergic effects and more side effects. so there


So (for at least the majority) Every time you go above 60mg, you're screwing yourself for life? Wouldn't it reset back to Normal for whatever dose you're on after a full MAO regeneration cycle?


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> So (for at least the majority) Every time you go above 60mg, you're screwing yourself for life? Wouldn't it reset back to Normal for whatever dose you're on after a full MAO regeneration cycle?


You wanna tell me what the full MAO regeneration cycle is then, for someone on an irreversible MAOI?

Playing about with doses will never end well. Once you find an effective dose do not increase.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

0707129r said:


> You wanna tell me what the full MAO regeneration cycle is then, for someone on an irreversible MAOI?
> 
> Playing about with doses will never end well. Once you find an effective dose do not increase.


There's such a huge load of people on Psycho-Babble, as well as on this forum that has increased/decreased dosage rapidly, including myself that has not experienced what you point out. Everyone is as you know different, and saying "don't go over X mg; stay on X mg for a total of X weeks; augment with this and that" etc, It's just rubbish.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

0707129r said:


> You wanna tell me what the full MAO regeneration cycle is then, for someone on an irreversible MAOI?
> 
> Playing about with doses will never end well. Once you find an effective dose do not increase.


You realize that without going ABOVE whatever your sweet spot dose is, it's virtually impossible for you to know that the previous dose was your bestest dose? Get it? Get it? Got it?

word.


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## Lou Fern (Jul 17, 2012)

joshyboy said:


> hey everyone, just wanna say thanks for all the advice from everyone especially my chopsuey and other, my euphoria came and went, post-euphoric crash is done and now i'm feeling the real effects finally, i just wanna ask some advice about how everyone keeps it from a tolerance and it losing its potency. Right now, i'm on 75, but i think i wanna up it to 90 and then twice a week come back down to 75, i hear fluctuating works, any ideas or tips for how to keep the nardil going strong?


Made up for you man! 
Could you describe how you are feeling and behaving now please?


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> There's such a huge load of people on Psycho-Babble, as well as on this forum that has increased/decreased dosage rapidly, including myself that has not experienced what you point out. Everyone is as you know different, and saying "don't go over X mg; stay on X mg for a total of X weeks; augment with this and that" etc, It's just rubbish.


What's your current dose, and how long you been on nardil? How do you tend to 'cycle' and how does this help? thanks


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

0707129r said:


> What's your current dose, and how long you been on nardil? How do you tend to 'cycle' and how does this help? thanks


I've been on Nardil for approximately 8 months. I tend to fluctuate a lot with dosing. Most days I'm on either 75 or 90mg, but some days i can take 120mg.
Yesterday for example i took over 150mg.

Some days every second month i tend to lower dose, or quit for a few days to lower tolerance. Cycling to higher doses makes me more happy, confident, energetic and awesome. And i rarely get any side effects even at such high doses.


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

I've been on 45mg for about 6/7 months with great effects. What would be the impetus to start increasing / megadosing etc? Apart from a possible increased boost of PEA at higher doses, what is the point in increasing the dose for one day. The overall MAO inhibition level will remained unchanged.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Nardil is a good drug for SA. Better the SSRI.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

0707129r said:


> I've been on 45mg for about 6/7 months with great effects. What would be the impetus to start increasing / megadosing etc? Apart from a possible increased boost of PEA at higher doses, what is the point in increasing the dose for one day. The overall MAO inhibition level will remained unchanged.


Nardil is a weak releaser of the three major NTs, basically if you take a large dose of Nardil on an empty stomach you get "high", in a very subtle and pleasant way, which decreases anxiety, gives motivation, hope, awesomeness, confidence and energy.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> Nardil is a weak releaser of the three major NTs, basically if you take a large dose of Nardil on an empty stomach you get "high", in a very subtle and pleasant way, which decreases anxiety, gives motivation, hope, awesomeness, confidence and energy.


I think I've had this too, but it always dies down for me later in the day. Although, to be fair, I still never really went any higher than 45mg during any of the time I've spent when Nardil was working.

Would you know if the effect lasts longer on higher doses? Maybe at 75, it can be an all day thing, so I'd only not have it when I'm waiting for Nardil to kick in again the next morning.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, the more you take the longer it lasts. Today i took over 200mg, and it lasted a VEEEEEERY long time. Almost overdose i suppose, as norepinephrine was increased too much. Which resulted in 200~ systolic blood-pressure for several hours. Don't try this at home kids. ;3

But goood damn, today i think I've met the woman of my life, due to my hypomanic motivation due to Nardil. Lovely ****! ;3


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

how much til you overdose?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

adamaus said:


> how much til you overdose?


probably until the sideeffects (hypertension/monotherapy serotonin syndrome/edema/etc.) kill you


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

ok i dont want to overdose been there, no good, just need to know the highest possible i can go up to


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

you can go to the lower 200's for a short while, and no one ever needs any higher anyways


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

ChopSuey said:


> *
> Some days every second month i tend to lower dose, or quit for a few days to lower tolerance. Cycling to higher doses makes me more happy, confident, energetic and awesome.* And i rarely get any side effects even at such high doses.


I can just confirm that this works for me also. However, i do not quit Nardil but rather reduce my dose to 30 mg and stay there for a week. Then bump it again to 75 mg.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Max dose I tried was 120mg. But I had to split it because my blood pressure would go to 180. Just tried that dose for a few days.


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## Captainmycaptain (Sep 23, 2012)

I was at like a buck thirty five for a few weeks. Everything was fine until I added dextroamphetamine to that mix and things got haywire.


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

zeusko87 said:


> I can just confirm that this works for me also. However, i do not quit Nardil but rather reduce my dose to 30 mg and stay there for a week. Then bump it again to 75 mg.


Yup can agree on that one too. Started to drop down to 45mg from 60mg for a week or more every so often. It's not that big of a drop granted. Though I do find that it improve the effects of the 60mg dosage quite nicely if down at 45mg long enough. 45mg for me still holds a nice reduction of SA while also getting some more overall energy throughout the day. Might just give 30mg a go next time around.

Would you find your SA subtly creeping back if on 30mg long enough ?


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

Blue Table Space said:


> Would you find your SA subtly creeping back if on 30mg long enough ?


unfortunately, yes.

going from 75 to 45/60 mg for a week = not much difference in depression/anxiety

going from 75 to 30 mg = SA getting worse after 4-5 days


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## V1bzz (Feb 20, 2017)

zeusko87 said:


> unfortunately, yes.
> 
> going from 75 to 45/60 mg for a week = not much difference in depression/anxiety
> 
> going from 75 to 30 mg = SA getting worse after 4-5 days


Do you think this tactic may work to help my nardil kick in? Im 8 weeks 75mg tomorrow and have little to no anxiety relief most days. it's been 0 relief today and its really getting me down. I had to visit someone and swear just for a millasecond my brain blacked out. I was a nervous wreck after that, was super anxious beforehand though.
Sick of this crap, I don't understand why its not working! I have had every side effect listed but insomnia and still do. Surely that's got to mean something?
I feel like crap every day. I don't want to give up on Nardil, have been through too much hell with it :frown2:


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## WillComp (Mar 24, 2017)

Hey mate, have you thought about going down to 60?

Here's a great thread from 2014.. This guy started in July and had it working in October. Here's the thread: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/my-nardil-journey-1111641/index19.html

And here's a quote from the OP (barry1685) about dosing:

"Hey guys. I think I finally got some structure to my nardil dosing and I think I finally can say that I am in remission.

So I want to give advice to other nardil users to not rush a dose like I did. I didn't listen to other people on this forum and jumped too fast on my dosing.

So I went from 60mg to 75mg to try and feel better which made me worse, then went from 75mg to 90mg which led to a poopout effect.

So I recently have been taking breaks and restarting nardil trying to find the right dose and found that 60mg is the golden dose for me.

So I recommended if anyone runs into my problem to take a week break on nardil and go to 15mg for the week. Then titrate back to a lower dose and hold there for a week to see if things change. Nardil has allowed me to function great and I feel like my social anxiety is under control now.

For example I just made a call to a print guy who made some minor mistakes on our poster and got him to reprint our poster which is very expensive. This obviously was a difficult call and I didn't have any anxiety just felt a little awkward. I felt bad for the guy but at the same time he can't be creating poor quality work.

Before nardil I wouldn't even think about calling this guy, I would panic and I probably would have to pop a bunch of benzos just to make the call.

I am not a social butterfly by any means on nardil, but I am more comfortable with myself and accept who I am and don't worry about the little things."


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