# Going to Parnate



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm in the process of tapering off of Zoloft because I am getting on Parnate. I have some questions about Parnate I'm hoping some of you can answer..

1. Do I really have to wait two weeks after coming off of Zoloft before I can start the Parnate? Or can I start Parnate earlier on a lower dose? 

2. How bad are the side effects of Parnate when compared to Nardil? When I was on Nardil, the side effects were plenty and lasted probably for a good couple months. Muscle weakness and hypotension were pretty bad on Nardil, will this be the same for Parnate? 

3. Is it best to go up slowly on Parnate or do you want to up the dose fast? 

4. How long does Parnate usually take to kick in for anxiety and depression?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

No thats more from going from an MAOI to Sertraline.. 
From Stahls prescribersguide:
• Do not start an MAO inhibitor for at least 5
half-lives (5 to 7 days for most drugs) after
discontinuing sertraline.



Parnate ehh not much side effects at all... Some initial problems falling asleep, but that usually gets better...

I tried Parnate a couple of times for varius reasons, i like a fast approach..

And like Dr. Ken Gillman writes on his homepage only 2% respond to doses lower then 30mg...

So 30mg would be a good starting dose.

How long it takes, hmm. I'd say a couple of days but say 2weeks...

You get some BP droping effect at about day 10 or so, you also get less sensetive to caffeine and nicotine... So guess thats the anti panic/ anxiety effect.


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## JohnnyE (Oct 8, 2015)

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> I'm in the process of tapering off of Zoloft because I am getting on Parnate. I have some questions about Parnate I'm hoping some of you can answer..
> 
> 1. Do I really have to wait two weeks after coming off of Zoloft before I can start the Parnate? Or can I start Parnate earlier on a lower dose?
> 
> ...


Not sure, but much respect to you for having the balls to obtain an MAOI and try it. About to go on Nardil myself. Any advice?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Parnate is a much more user-friendly MAOI than Nardil is. Nardil can push your BP so dangerously low that you can't physically stand, and if seated in a kitchen chair (almost an impossible task to even get in such a position) you will fall off it & land on the floor within 30 seconds. In the fight against Nardil, I was left battered, bruised & bloody. I'm not exaggerating and that was at a dose of only 60 mg Nardil (4 pills). I still have scars on knees from June 10 when Nardil had me reduced to crawling on the floor. No other drug has ever come even close to producing such total physical incapacitation. And I didn't even exceed the prescribed dose (in fact, I took less). And that so-low-I-couldn't-even-stand BP was produced when I was OFF my beta blockers that I normally have to take for high blood pressure. Just imagine how low it would go if one didn't have high BP to start with!

By my annual physical on July 10, so one month later, my BP came in normal even though I was then up to 90mg (6 pills) Nardil and I'd resumed using my beta blockers. It all passes once your body gets used to it, though I'd recommend going slow when it comes to increasing Nardil dose.

Nardil is EXTREMELY constipating, something which Parnate is not. I never noticed side effects on Parnate at any dose and my prescribed dose was 120mg (and I tried up to 200mg, which didn't do any better than 120mg).

There is this widespread myth in the medical community that being an "old drug" (Parnate was introduced in 1960) MAOIs simply must have worse side effects than newer meds -- total BS that is! Parnate is notable for having a stunning lack of side effects.

Some may note that Parnate failed to stand out in the Star D trials (where all the ADs did quite poorly). What stands out about that trial is that the mean Parnate dose was only a meager 39 mg. I think I know why Parnate did so poorly -- ridiculously low dosage. If they'd pushed the dose up to 120 mg then I think we would have really seen Parnate shine.

As for the idea that eating cheese will kill you, it's really blue cheese and other rotten crap like that. One day on Parnate I pigged out on a full 8 ounce block of extra sharp cheddar. Zero response, though that kind of diet will kill me via heart disease long before an MAOI can get me. I didn't have to change my diet in any way for either Parnate or Nardil. Most of the things that are truly off limits are things you probably don't eat anyhow, like fava beans and you can replace your tap beer with bottles or cans. MDs make a big deal out of a diet that isn't restrictive at all.


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## WanderingSoul (Apr 22, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> Parnate is a much more user-friendly MAOI than Nardil is. Nardil can push your BP so dangerously low that you can't physically stand, and if seated in a kitchen chair (almost an impossible task to even get in such a position) you will fall off it & land on the floor within 30 seconds. In the fight against Nardil, I was left battered, bruised & bloody. I'm not exaggerating and that was at a dose of only 60 mg Nardil (4 pills). I still have scars on knees from June 10 when Nardil had me reduced to crawling on the floor. No other drug has ever come even close to producing such total physical incapacitation. And I didn't even exceed the prescribed dose (in fact, I took less). And that so-low-I-couldn't-even-stand BP was produced when I was OFF my beta blockers that I normally have to take for high blood pressure. Just imagine how low it would go if one didn't have high BP to start with!
> 
> By my annual physical on July 10, so one month later, my BP came in normal even though I was then up to 90mg (6 pills) Nardil and I'd resumed using my beta blockers. It all passes once your body gets used to it, though I'd recommend going slow when it comes to increasing Nardil dose.
> 
> Nardil is EXTREMELY constipating, something which Parnate is not. I never noticed side effects on Parnate at any dose and my prescribed dose was 120mg (and I tried up to 200mg, which didn't do any better than 120mg).


I dunno Ultrashy. Nardil gives urinary retention and pretty bad insomnia. I also can't cum. Parnate caused euphoria in me which actually made me addicted.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Ultra how was you libido and such on 120+Parnate?

Im somewhere in that dosing range, and it really worked well for my rumination and daydreaming and excessive worrying... I find my Libido gone, and pretty much my abillity to "salute the Captain"

I think you where taking Biosprolol as a beta blocker also?


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## anonxiety (Nov 30, 2015)

I used to be on Parnate. Took it for about a year. It's an activating drug, you will have some energy. When I first started taking it I think I had an allergic reaction to it but it subsided after a while. The thing is with Parnate is you have to watch your diet. Go easy with any aged foods or beverages or you will have some side effects such as HBP, stomach issues, migraines, and such. I stopped taking Parnate because it was prohibitively expensive for a months supply when my county no longer covered most of the cost (before I had insurance). 

What I liked about Parnate is that you know something is working (you can feel it as I described above) and it doesn't take long to notice unlike most SSRIs or even SNRIs I've ever taken.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> 1. Do I really have to wait two weeks after coming off of Zoloft before I can start the Parnate? Or can I start Parnate earlier on a lower dose?


I believe this is backwards. If going from SSRI to MAOI, SSRI has to "wash out". Wash out is 5 x half life (which for Zoloft is 1 day). So 5x1 = *5 days* as opposed to 2 weeks.

Going from MAOI to SSRI:
MAO enzyme activity has to raise up which may take up to 14 days, maybe less. That's probably where the 14 day "rule" comes from.



> 2. How bad are the side effects of Parnate when compared to Nardil? When I was on Nardil, the side effects were plenty and lasted probably for a good couple months. Muscle weakness and hypotension were pretty bad on Nardil, will this be the same for Parnate?


Parnate is usually better tolerated than Nardil, though of course not always.

One notable difference is that some of Nardil's particular side effects are emergent, such as mood destabilization or weight gain. This really sucks and can turn a good med bad. Generally with Parnate, there are few surprises. You won't need to wait 6 months until you're painted into a corner, to know if it's a long term solution.

Just me: On Parnate I get some afternoon sedation and it lowers my blood pressure by about 10 mm Hg which is tolerable. In the past I had significant insomnia too. Side's have been manageable with various augmentations or a tweak in my daily schedule.



> 3. Is it best to go up slowly on Parnate or do you want to up the dose fast?


You can jump right into your starting dose if you like but if you have a bad reaction you'll also get punched harder this way. I'm a fan of slow and steady, personally, but then again I am sensitive to side effects.



> 4. How long does Parnate usually take to kick in for anxiety and depression?


Give it a month, including at a sufficient dose. For some people it works within 1-2 weeks but don't write it off if it takes longer than that. Could be you have to get to a high dose, and try _that dose_ for a month, to really know.

Good luck! Parnate is awesome!


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Caedmon said:


> I believe this is backwards. If going from SSRI to MAOI, SSRI has to "wash out". Wash out is 5 x half life (which for Zoloft is 1 day). So 5x1 = *5 days* as opposed to 2 weeks.
> 
> Going from MAOI to SSRI:
> MAO enzyme activity has to raise up which may take up to 14 days, maybe less. That's probably where the 14 day "rule" comes from.
> ...


Thanks for all of the information. Are you absolutely sure that you only have to wait five days when going from a SSRI to a MAOI? My psychiatrist wants me to wait two weeks being off of Zoloft before I can start Parnate. I already have a bottle of Parnate. Can I start anytime after five days of being off of Zoloft and be ok?


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Always consult with your doctor. I am literally sitting in an armchair as I type this. 

The following resource is from the University of South Carolina.
http://sccp.sc.edu/sites/default/files/FINAL SCORE PDF 12110.pdf

"Taper and allow 5 half-life wash out (1 week)"


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## Weston (Sep 23, 2006)

I would concur with most of the comments above. Swapping to a MAOI from another med I would be very cautious. It could cause serotonin syndrome which is brutal. Side effects are minor compared to Nardil, but I have heard Parnate is more likely to result in hypertensive crisis than Nardil. I had one of the two one time and ended up in the emergency room with a doctor who was unqualified to treat it. Beside extreme pain I ended up with a body temperature of 93F and 35 pulse. Not very pleasant. Don't let that scare you off though. Just avoid aged cheese and a few obscure foods that almost no one eats normally anyway.


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

I believe I am going to start it tomorrow. I've been off of Zoloft for 9 days now and I feel like that should be enough time for me to start the Parnate. I will keep a journal in this forum on how it goes and update. I'm hoping Parnate gets me feeling excited about life, really hoping.


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Can anyone give me information on how I should dose. What dose should I start at and how quickly should I go up and to what dose?


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

So I'm only on my third day of Parnate. I've been taking 10 mg in the morning and 10 mg at night, so only 20 mg total. I feel pretty damn wiped out and feeling more down. I'm wondering if perhaps I started the Parnate too soon after being off of Zoloft. I started 9 days after being off of Zoloft. Maybe that has something to do with the fatigue? I also have a really bad cold, so I'm hoping it's just the cold wiping me out and not this what I believe is a small dose of Parnate. Does the fatigue usually subside?


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm on my fifth day on Parnate and second day on 30 mg. I'm feeling pretty irritable, frustrated, and annoyed. It gives me a shortly lived feeling of warmth after taking the 20 mg in the morning. It's making me pretty tired, which is rough because that's something I've been struggling with for years. If the fatigue doesn't eventually wear off, I won't be able to be on this medication. 

For my scales for anxiety, depression, and fatigue with 0 being remission and 10 being the worst it could be...

Anxiety-6
Depression-6
Fatigue-7

Hopefully these numbers climb down over the next couple weeks.


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

So I'm on day 7 of Parnate. I'd say my anxiety is a little bit down, but I don't feel all that motivated. I've had some insomnia. I wake up in the middle of the night and then can have difficulty falling asleep. I was up for about 4 hours last night. The side efffects seem to be a whole lot more tolerable than Nardil's so far. 

Anxiety- 5
Depression-5.5
Fatigue- 6


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Feeling not too bad today. Still not really socially motivated. After I take a dose of 20 mg, I get a really nice feeling of warmth and contentment that last for like an hour. Wish it would last longer! It feels pretty nice. I hope that never goes away as long as I take Parnate. I remember I got a similar feeling with Nardil, but that went away after a few weeks. 

Anxiety- 5
Depression- 4.5
Fatigue- 5


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

So almost two weeks in on Parnate. Seems pretty good so far. Very tolerable. Having very minimal side effects, which is nice because Nardil had a lot! I'm also taking Baclofen though so that might be helping with my mood the last couple days. I'm on 40 mg and am wondering if I should just bump up to 60 mg already? I kind of want to. 

Anxiety- 4
Depression- 3
Fatigue-3


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

So just over two weeks in on Parnate. It gives me a nice feeling of warmth and contentment after I take the 30 mg dose in the morning, but this seems to have been wearing off a little. I'm hoping that effect doesn't go away as it is very pleasant. For long time Parnate users, do you still get this effect and is there a way to sure it stays with you? 

I'm taking Baclofen, usually 60 mg per day. Some days I will take more and then I will also try and take some days off. However, when I take days off I think I experience withdrawal. I don't think as clearly and have a hard time articulating my thoughts. It's like a thought disorder. I was experiencing this prior to Baclofen though and am really worried it won't go away. It gets better when I take the Baclofen. I hope Parnate will help me get rid of this annoyance of not thinking clearly, so that I don't become dependent on Baclofen. I will try to taper slowly off the Baclofen if I am to come off eventually and hope this stupid thought disorder is gone!!

Anxiety-5
Depression-5
Fatigue-5


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Feeling kind of down now. I don't know what is going on. I'm only two weeks in. I'm also on Baclofen and I don't know if that's causing me to feel down.

Anxiety-6
Depression-6
Fatigue-6


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

3 weeks in now. I've been on 50 mg for about a week. I think I am calmer and anxiety is down but I'm not exactly motivated or feeling upbeat about life like I hope happens. How long does it usually take to kick in? I know MAOI inhibition takes a while to take place at a certain dose..

Anxiety- 4
Depression- 5
Fatigue- 5.5


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Just IMHO I would stay at 50 mg for at least two weeks and freeze other meds as well. Give Parnate a chance to do its thing, and for you to get a good feel for "good days/bad days" vs actual medication response.

I get a fast energy boost with a happy light. Carex Day-Light brand at 10,000 lux is worth its weight in gold to me.

You can do this!


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks Caedmon. I actually do have one of those lights, but haven't used it in a long time. I get a nice content feeling of warmth after taking a 30 mg dose, but it seems to be fading. Do you still get this or did you ever and how do you get it to keep happening without tolerance? Lol. What causes this anyway?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> Thanks Caedmon. I actually do have one of those lights, but haven't used it in a long time. I get a nice content feeling of warmth after taking a 30 mg dose, but it seems to be fading. Do you still get this or did you ever and how do you get it to keep happening without tolerance? Lol. What causes this anyway?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It somewhat last, i usally kickstart my parnate with some 70mg+.. But after about 11days, its a BP drop (probably adrenerg or beta)... And after that i can only take 30mg at once or else i get "POTS" When going from sitting to standing...

But 30mg with 200mg Caffein, is a good way to start the day!...
The afternoon dose, does very little in effect (i take 30mg morning+30mg afternoon)... And so does caffeine, nicotine...

Although there are case reports of people that "gets addicted" and use alot more Parnate 120mg+...

I myself found myself trying to take some"drug holiday" It was kinda hard... Because i find myself doing things, Instead of lying in my bed... (And its kinda depressing spending the whole day at bedrest, even more several days)...


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

watertouch said:


> It somewhat last, i usally kickstart my parnate with some 70mg+.. But after about 11days, its a BP drop (probably adrenerg or beta)... And after that i can only take 30mg at once or else i get "POTS" When going from sitting to standing...
> 
> But 30mg with 200mg Caffein, is a good way to start the day!...
> The afternoon dose, does very little in effect (i take 30mg morning+30mg afternoon)... And so does caffeine, nicotine...
> ...


The content feeling from the 30 mg dose in the morning was really strong the first 4-5 days of dosing, but now it's not nearly as strong  I'm thinking of dosing at 20 mg for a while to see if that nice feeling at 30 mg will come back.

Anyways, is there like a general rule of thumb for when Parnate will start kicking in? I know Nardil has these different rules like you need to take a certain amount of mg per kg of body weight. Also I remember hearing on Nardil once you are experiencing hypotension or once it started to fade then the therapeutic effects begin to kick in.. Is there any rules for when Parnate is usually going to start kicking in?

Is it normal to feel maybe a little more down or depressed the first few weeks? I feel kind of down and thought Parnate is suppose to be real great for depression..


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Helps a little with anxiety at times. That content warmth feeling after dosing has faded a lot  The depression doesn't seem to be lifting yet. I'm not very excited about life like I am hoping Parnate makes me. Wonder if Baclofen could have an effect on limiting the antidepressant effects of Parnate, Idk. A little over 3 weeks in total on Parnate. 

Anxiety-4.5
Depression-5
Fatigue-5


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

A little over 4 weeks in now. So far it's decent I guess. The content feeling of warmth after dosing keeps losing it's effect. I'm taking Baclofen and feel ok when I take Baclofen. The days I take off of Baclofen though I think I get withdrawal and am really agitated. Also I still have insomnia, but that can be due to Baclofen as well. The insomnia also can be making me agitated. Anyways, I hope the Parnate works much better than it has so far. Decent at best so far. 

Anxiety- 5
Depression- 5.5
Fatigue-5


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

if Parnate fails you can always try Nardil


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

I've been on Nardil. It was OK as well. A lot more side effects tho
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> I've been on Nardil. It was OK as well. A lot more side effects tho
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


can you compare them, which helps more with social anxiety?


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

zeusko87 said:


> can you compare them, which helps more with social anxiety?


Um well I think it's too soon for me to really say much about Parnate, as I'm only a little over a month in. But so far maybe Nardil was a little better for all forms of anxiety. I got a little bit of euphoria from Nardil a few weeks in. I haven't got that from Parnate yet. Parnate is much more tolerable in terms of side effects for sure though. I'm a little disappointed in Parnate's effect on Depression so far. I heard how it's suppose to be so great for Depression and so I was expecting to feel more enthused about life, but that hasn't really happened yet.

Anxiety 4.5
Depression 4.5
Fatigue- 4.5


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

A little over 5 weeks in on Parnate now. Decent medication so far, nothing spectacular. The content feeling of warmth after dosing has almost entirely disappeared, which is really disappointing  It seems a little bit up and down. Sometimes I'm a little more calm and other times anxiety seems to break through. I'm still on Baclofen, so I'm sure this is having some of an effect as well on the ups and downs of anxiety and depression. I usually take 60 mg of Baclofen all at once. Some days I take more, some days I take less, some days I divide the doses, and some days I try to take off. So that is probably causing some up and down on anxiety and depression in itself. Anyways, I'm thinking about raising the dose up to 60 mg on the Parnate. 

Anxiety 4.5
Depression 4.5
Fatigue 4.5


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

zeusko87 said:


> can you compare them, which helps more with social anxiety?


Nardil is superior for SA in my experience. This is likely because it's the only drug on Earth that raised GABA. Parnate comes in as second best for SA.

If you only have depression and no anxiety then I think Parnate would be the clear winner.

One note on Parnate: don't be skimpy on the dose. You can safety take 120 mg/day or even more if need be. Parnate failed to shine in the STAR-D trial because the mean dose was a dinky 39 mg. Push that to 120 mg and then you'll really see it working.

Nardil is a hydrazine which is liver-toxic, thus limiting dose. Parnate is a substituted amphetamine that isn't liver toxic at all, so the dose can be pushed shy high without any problem.

Parnate is more user-friendly, being entirely devoid of side effects in my experience. No side effects even at double the max recommended dose of 60 mg! That max recommended dose is too low IMO, being suited to a small individual with relatively minor problems. I have much more body mass and am highly treatment resistant, but then everyone who takes an MAOI in 2015 is treatment resistant. This isn't 1960 where they would have used Parnate for any ordinary case, simply because their only choices were a limited number of MAOIs & TCAs. Today Parnate (and Nardil) are reserved for the treatment resistant only, so it's only common sense that a high dose may be required.

Nardil is *SEVERELY* constipating. So you will learn to use Miralax, docusate, and psyillium fiber every single day. That or you'll be like me last summer chugging a bottle of magnesium citrate -- the ultimate colon cleaner -- at 2 am in the parking lot of a 24-hour Walgreens.


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

So about six and a half weeks in so far. Been on 60 mg for like a week or week and a half. I think it's helping, but not a tremendous help yet and also kind of up and down. 

Anxiety-4.5
Depression- 4.5
Fatigue- 4.5


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## dbellaaa (Nov 5, 2015)

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> So about six and a half weeks in so far. Been on 60 mg for like a week or week and a half. I think it's helping, but not a tremendous help yet and also kind of up and down.
> 
> Anxiety-4.5
> Depression- 4.5
> Fatigue- 4.5


Hey mate. Hope you are doing a little better.

I thought i would jump in here. I have currently been on Parnate for around 5 months.

The first month was a very depressing one for me, which was surprising because i only suffer from sa. Anyway i had suicidal idealation and tendencies which were out of the blue for me.

Here is how i dose.

80mg- 30 x 30 x 20.

I find if i take the doses in 3.5- 4 hour intervals i avoid the afternoon fatigue.

Id probably try splitting your current dose the same 20 x 30 x 10 or 20 x 20 x 20. I find i'm wide awake come evening so no need to redose then.

Saying that 60mg was probably my sweet spot, 80mg is feeling quite a bit too strong at the moment.

Also at 80mg ive lost my libido, where as 60mg i was fine.

Just play around with your dose a bit and mix it up. Usually doing this can have more benefits than increasing your dose..... well in my experience.

It's totally wiped out my SA by the way, give it time mate.


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

dbellaaa said:


> Hey mate. Hope you are doing a little better.
> 
> I thought i would jump in here. I have currently been on Parnate for around 5 months.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information. At what point did it start to really help with your social anxiety and then at what point did it totally wipe it out? I'm 7 weeks in now and so far it's just a mild help.


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## dbellaaa (Nov 5, 2015)

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> Thanks for the information. At what point did it start to really help with your social anxiety and then at what point did it totally wipe it out? I'm 7 weeks in now and so far it's just a mild help.


I pretty bad anxiety issues, i could barely go to the shops without freaking out. Not saying i'm completely free of it i still hate doing dinners and coffees, but i mean some people without anxiety hate it aswell.

Ummm well. It started working in the beginning but it would go in phases. One minute i felt great the next i felt like my old self.

Probably around the 3 month mark everything seemed to start firing properly, with so much more consistency in the med.

I did titrate much slower than you so im not sure if that makes any diff.

At 40 it started feeling therapeautic , until it lost its effectiveness. 60mg was when i really started to feel alot better.

Are you having alot of ups and downs?


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

dbellaaa said:


> I pretty bad anxiety issues, i could barely go to the shops without freaking out. Not saying i'm completely free of it i still hate doing dinners and coffees, but i mean some people without anxiety hate it aswell.
> 
> Ummm well. It started working in the beginning but it would go in phases. One minute i felt great the next i felt like my old self.
> 
> ...


Yeah it's kind of up and down for me right now. Today is a pretty bad day. I'm having a lot of anxiety and it doesn't seem like it's controlling my worrying. I keep worrying about stupid stuff. It's so frustrating. I hope it kicks in for social anxiety, depression, and general anxiety because I really just want to be healthy again so bad. It's been like 8 years now.


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm coming off of Baclofen, which can have a pretty bad withdrawal. I'm down to 20 mg on Baclofen from the 60 mg that I was on usually daily. I've been going down 10 mg every week so it's a really slow taper off of Baclofen. Because of that's it's still hard for me to really judge Parnate. I think I may need to go up on Parnate and maybe try to augment it with something that'll help with anxiety. We'll see after I'm finally off of Baclofen for a while, how well the Parnate does by itself, but I will probably have to try a higher dose and/or augment to help with general and social anxiety. Still depressed too, but again it's hard to tell what's doing what because I'm going off of Baclofen and there has been withdrawal from that, which can be similar to benzo withdrawal.


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

Hey , 

I used Parnate a long time and a GOOD time, I got a psychiatrist which allowed me to raise up the dose very fast. The onset of extremly activation on psychomotoric drive strated on day 5. Over the time i raised up to 240 mg witch very good effects in motivation.

My Social Anxiety which was extrem has gone to zero. In very high dosage it is extremly effective. I took at this time also 300mg of Clozapine and 2400mg Oxcarbazepine so the Insomnia was absolut gone.

Give Parnate a big chance and think ! The real antidepressant action starts above 60-80 mg !!!! 

Parnate got a REAL dose - response curve !


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

@Schneegestein That is a high dose! Not many tread those waters. As for myself, I've tried high dose regimens but after about 70-90 mg I get an increase in side effects (worsened insomnia & daytime fatigue, increased appetite, water retention). I take 60 mg now.


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

*growl*

 it is very high yes. Ive tried 10 years all medications... but doctors first precribe ssri, nxt ssri, than again ssri, than snri... most of them are ignorant, stupid and useless psychiatrists.

but i found one really good who got many patients with Maoi's and who is willing try high to very high doses, also in combination with Tca's , stimulants or Lithium.

to much useless psychiatrists...:mum


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## Iwillovercomeanxiety1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Schneegestein said:


> Hey ,
> 
> I used Parnate a long time and a GOOD time, I got a psychiatrist which allowed me to raise up the dose very fast. The onset of extremly activation on psychomotoric drive strated on day 5. Over the time i raised up to 240 mg witch very good effects in motivation.
> 
> ...


Wow 240 mg?! I would think that could kill you. I'm at 60 but maybe I'll see if my psychiatrist will let me go up higher on it. Are there any studies I can show him that show it's safe to go higher on Parnate and that it is more effective above 60 mg? Also, does it get better for anxiety at doses above 60 mg?


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

Hey you  

No it killed me not. First, Maoi's are very safe medications, safer than Ssri's. That Maoi's are dangerous is a myth. 

Parnate got a dose - response curve. More is more there . Mao A and Mao B inhibtion ist one part, but Parnate got Amphetamine properties. Between 60mg and 80mg it starts. So Dopamine and Norepinephrine ist released and there is also a reuptake.

with 160 mg it was first time like an rush of amphetamine, pure. The amphetamine action then subsided cause it was not my gole in euphoria. But in my opinion is the euphoria a part of the antidepressive therapy. Think you suffer so long time and then ''BOOM'' , but the BOOM ends and the antidepressant effect is getting stronger and stable. You can laugh and cry again ... you can live this life.

Cause i got serious insomnia since years, the Parnate worsend it just about 30%-40%. But this is a very common side effect. I took Clozapine against it and i slept like a child in the night. 

Think about you can add every other antidepressant to Parnate just NOT CLOMIPRAMINE, IMIPRAMINE and other SRI'S

All other TCA's like sedating trimipramine, amitriptyline, doxepin, maprotiline and other.

Now i take Nardil which is way not activating , but with a stimulant and two tricyclic antidepressants.

It is a fact that Nardil is more anxiolytic than other antidepressants. It is absolutly the best for anxiety. But i got the same anxiolytic effect of Parnate just a bit other. Way more strong and open. 

greetings


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## Edan Karako (Feb 23, 2016)

Schneegestein said:


> Hey you
> 
> No it killed me not. First, Maoi's are very safe medications, safer than Ssri's. That Maoi's are dangerous is a myth.
> 
> ...


Then why would you switch if I may ask?


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

Hey,

i reduced the dosage to better my insomnia, i went to the doctor and did a venipuncture and then it has been shown that I have developed a thrombocytopenia, so i stopped Parnate and changed 3 days later to Nardil.

I'll miss a bit the stimulating effect. Dexamphetamine sucks against Parnate.

I will change the D-Amphetamine against D,L-Amphetamine or a higher dosage of Methylphenidate which is much more safe. My doctor has agreed to change to Methylphenidate to a dosage which is miming the action as i got on Parnate.


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