# Guess 80% people have common misconception about university



## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

I give a wild guess that at least 80% people believe that university is to prepare you for life or living.

No, according the British educationalist, Sir Ken Robisnon,  university is NOT to prepare you for life, but, instead, to produce or manufacture professors through industrial process (rather than organic process).

Reference:
Youtube video (title: "Do school kill creativity", at the time 9:53): 





University is to train your skill so that you will be good at academics, but NOT to train your skill so that you will be good at life. Despite the fact that many academic skills are related to many life skills(such as critical thinking, how to write essay, how to memorize, and how to make argument, and how to do experiment), the nature of academic skill and life skill are fundamentally different. Our education system is glad to teach you Shakespeare literature, ancient history, algebraic number theory, and so on, but is not willing to teach you many basic life skills, such as how to become a happy person, how to manage personal finance, how to invest to stock market, how to build and maintain relationship, how to cope with dating, how to makeover, how to lose weight, etc.

That is a partial but important reason why our educate system is currently receiving many criticisms. However, it needs time to do reforming on our education system. But the change of our education system is always based on the PAST, so the change always lags behind. Our modern society steps always ahead of our education. Because our modern society develops much faster than our education system and young people accept those new concepts and ideas so fast, that is why many young people always feel that some courses or ideas taught in our universities are out of date. 

Reference:
Youtube video (title: "Changing Education Paradigms")




 Youtube video (title: "How to escape education's death valley")





Remember that university will teach you how to do chemistry, how to do mathematics, and how to write poem, but they will NOT teach you how to be a chemist, how to be a mathematician, and how to be a poet. Because chemist, mathematician, and poet are human who require not only academic skills, but also basic life skills, and university is NOT an ideal place to learn those essential life skills. :idea


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## Testsubject (Nov 25, 2013)

I can't remember if it was in my social psychology or sociology class, but one of the lectures was about something called hidden curriculum. I guess you could say it teaches about life, well at least the social aspects of it. Unfortunately that includes the good and the bad.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

That's interesting, although I don't really understand how you expect a university to "teach" you life skills. Those seem to me like things you just have to experience to learn, and you definitely have a chance to experience them while at university (outside your classes, of course).

I don't think anyone believes that the university course material in itself prepares you for the social aspects of life. Most people would say either that it teaches you academics or to be successful at a career. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with this. Spending money to learn how to "cope with dating" or "lose weight", however, I would find to be completely ridiculous.


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## s1819 (Dec 29, 2013)

You will learn how to apply the knowledge when you got a job/internship.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> That's interesting,


 Really glad you find it interesting! :boogie 


Remnant of Dawn said:


> although I don't really understand how you expect a university to "teach" you life skills. Those seem to me like things you just have to experience to learn, and you definitely have a chance to experience them while at university (outside your classes, of course).


 You probably have to admit three facts:
1. *Human are not born to be good at life skills.*

2. *Every individual is different.*
Some can learn life skills by themselves, whereas the other can not learn life skills by themselves. If I am the one, who can not learn those life skills by myself, then what is the solution? Then I'll expect to find a teacher to teach me about those skills. If an university can not provide such teacher to teach me, then


> university is NOT an ideal place to learn those essential life skills. :idea


 So, only those people who can learn those life skills by themselves can ultimately survive in the university. But, if the university provide teachers to teach those life skills, then at least some of those people who can not learn life skills by themselves can survive in the university as well. (Keep in mind that government lose money for any student who can not survive at or drops out of school.)

3. *Our world is changed! Social life skill becomes a more and more complicated academic subject! *
40 years ago, if you have a college degree, then you can find a good job, and then you can find girlfriend and marry. That is what our parents told us, and most of us follow the advice from our parents. But, perhaps, we may be deceived. Why?

Nowadays, we are facing Academic Inflation so that college degree is currently devalued. Many jobs, which in the past only require college students to do, now require one with Master degree to do. "If you have a college degree, then you can find a good job." This is not true anymore at present.

Furthermore, nowadays, women are much more independent than 40 years ago. Women have their own careers, and they do not need men to financially support them. Without men, they can live quite well. This increases the challenge for men to find women. Men need more sophisticated social skills or social weapons in order to attract women. That is one of the main reason why Facebook, PoF, Match.com, and more dating company grow so rapidly in the last decade!

*Summary:*
As I said in my previous message, the reform of our education system always lags behind from the change of our modern society. Currently, our education system depreciates the importance and complexity of life skills, esp of social life skills. It will take a considerably LONG time for people to realize it, and incorporate those lessons about life skills into future course curriculum. Those people, who can not learn life skills by themselves, are still going to struggle until future educational revolution take place.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Spending money to learn how to "cope with dating" or "lose weight", however, I would find to be completely ridiculous.


 Really?  Have you ever heard about those jobs, called "life counselling", "physical train coach", "personal coaching", "dating coaching", and "online dating website"? Nowadays, they are billion-dollars business. Lots of people spend lots of money to learn how to cope with dating, and how to keep their body fit~~ The reason why people do this can be find in this message at:


> 3. *Our world is changed! Social life skill becomes a more and more complicated academic subject!*


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Niche said:


> Really glad you find it interesting! :boogie
> 
> You probably have to admit three facts:
> 1. *Human are not born to be good at life skills.*
> ...


I agree, but I am going to maintain that social skills cannot be "taught" in a traditional university setting. Besides, that's not the job of university. No one said it's the job of a university to teach you life skills. No one goes to a university with the expectation of being taught how to maintain a relationship. You go to a university to gain a general knowledge base and expertise in a particular field, whether for your own enjoyment or to make yourself marketable is up to you. 


> 3. *Our world is changed! Social life skill becomes a more and more complicated academic subject! *
> 40 years ago, if you have a college degree, then you can find a good job, and then you can find girlfriend and marry. That is what our parents told us, and most of us follow the advice from our parents. But, perhaps, we may be deceived. Why?
> 
> Nowadays, we are facing Academic Inflation so that college degree is currently devalued. Many jobs, which in the past only require college students to do, now require one with Master degree to do. "If you have a college degree, then you can find a good job." This is not true anymore at present.
> ...


...okay. This isn't really relevant to anything, though. Are you arguing that, in the past

going to college = get a good job = get married,

whereas now none of these statements hold? Okay, but that's supposing a very...restricted view of the "purpose of life", isn't it? By forcing all students to take a "relationship" requirement, isn't that the university supposing that all students WANT this rather cookie-cutter lifestyle? (not that it's bad, but it might not be for everyone).



> Really?  Have you ever heard about those jobs, called "life counselling", "physical train coach", "personal coaching", "dating coaching", and "online dating website"? Nowadays, they are billion-dollars business. Lots of people spend lots of money to learn how to cope with dating, and how to keep their body fit~~ The reason why people do this can be find in this message at:


I have indeed, but that doesn't change my statement. If you are paying money for a "personal life coach" you are being scammed, sorry I have to break it to you. Same thing if you buy books on "how to achieve happiness". Happiness is different for every person, having someone "teach" you how to be happy is absurd. It's different for physical trainers because there are actually specific ways to get yourself in shape better and online dating websites because they don't actually teach you things so much as they act as the bar where young people can get together and meet.


> *Summary:*
> As I said in my previous message, the reform of our education system always lags behind from the change of our modern society. Currently, our education system depreciates the importance and complexity of life skills, esp of social life skills. It will take a considerably LONG time for people to realize it, and incorporate those lessons about life skills into future course curriculum. Those people, who can not learn life skills by themselves, are still going to struggle until future educational revolution take place.


You miss the point that university is NOT some kind of "life coach". The job of going to school isn't to teach you social skills or life skills or whatever (most of which I maintain cannot be taught anyway). It's to get an ACADEMIC education, and for some people to use this to succeed in a career. Any social or life skills learned are learned outside of class, through experience, as necessary.

I go to school for computer science. I want to learn, well, about math and computers. I don't really want to read Shakespeare or analyze poetry, but I acknowledge that the university requires this to make me a knowledgeable person. Fine. But the last thing I need is to waste more credits (and very likely stress) taking some useless course on "dating" or "socializing" that will get me nowhere.


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## Lacking Serotonin (Nov 18, 2012)

I thought most people went to school to drink, drug and get married.


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## anyoldkindofday (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't think you could teach life skills at a university, you can't learn how to live from a book, some lectures and an exam.

What is wrong however, is that at least in my country it's too much of a next logical step after highschool, because really, university is highly theoretical and mainly worth it if you want to become a researcher / professor, while a lot of people are simply a lot more practical-minded. The main reason I'm doing it is I'd feel like I'm not living up to my full potential if I didn't keep studying, cause I could easily get a degree without even trying too hard, but really I should just get a job, because I hate purely theoretical work.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> I agree, but I am going to maintain that social skills cannot be "taught" in a traditional university setting.


Thank you for your agreement~  And yes, what I'm talking here is not a traditional university setting, and not an educational reform, but an educational revolution. 


Remnant of Dawn said:


> Besides, that's not the job of university. No one said it's the job of a university to teach you life skills.....


Please hold your horse. It's too early to conclude what the job of university is. If one says that the job of university is to educate people so that in future they can make contribution to humanity, then teaching life skills is indispensable. However, you can come up with different definition about the job of university, so this is a matter of debate.


Remnant of Dawn said:


> No one goes to a university with the expectation of being taught how to maintain a relationship. You go to a university to gain a *general knowledge base* and expertise in a particular field, whether for your own enjoyment or to make yourself marketable is up to you.


*Every individual is different. *To each individual, the definition of "general knowledge base" is different. Some students need life skills to be included in the "general knowledge base", whereas the other students do not need those.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> ...okay. This isn't really relevant to anything, though.


Of course, it is relevant! What I was trying to say was that our education system should not discriminate or depreciate life skills. Life skills nowadays are becoming more and more sophisticated. Those deserve tremendous study and research. We must treat those life skills as equally important as mathematical skills, writing skills, etc, despite of the fact that it is not mandatory to take courses about life skills. And I wish that one day people would call those teachers, who teach and research life skills, as "professor" or "researcher", rather than "life coach"! Less discrimination, more respect.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Are you arguing that, in the past going to college = get a good job = get married,
> whereas now none of these statements hold? Okay, but that's supposing a very...restricted view of the "purpose of life", isn't it?


This is not a mathematical formula, nor it is a truth, but an outdated *life plan.*I believe that this life plan was widely spread 40 years ago, since my grandparents and my parents told me that "to maintain relationship or marriage, you need to have a good job with stable and decent income." Moreover, the first half of this life plan is also appeared on the following Youtube video.
Reference:
Youtube video (title: "Changing Education Paradigms" at the time 01:10)







Remnant of Dawn said:


> By *forcing* all students to take a "relationship" requirement, isn't that the university supposing that all students WANT this rather cookie-cutter lifestyle? (not that it's bad, but it might not be for everyone).


 Please do not change the meaning of my messages! I have NEVER said to force all students to take "relationship" requirement in ANY of my previous messages! Instead, I said that *Every individual is different.*



Remnant of Dawn said:


> I have indeed, but that doesn't change my statement. If you are paying money for a "personal life coach" you are being scammed, sorry I have to break it to you.


Please check the following attachment picture. You leave no choice to me! :mum



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Same thing if you buy books on "how to achieve happiness". Happiness is different for every person, having someone "teach" you how to be happy is absurd.


It is a guidance, assistance, or sharing, not "teach". What I'm talking is not in a traditional education setting. If this causes misunderstanding, I am very sorry about that!



Remnant of Dawn said:


> ...online dating websites because they don't actually teach you things so much as they act as the bar where young people can get together and meet.


For how to cope with dating, you need tools to learn. Online dating platform is one of these tools. Tools can not teach you about dating skills, but it is like pencil or paper when taking a course. Of course, lots of people pay money for this tool. Through this tool, people can learn many special dating skills.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> You miss the point that university is NOT some kind of "life coach". The job of going to school isn't to teach you social skills or life skills or whatever (*most of which I maintain cannot be taught anyway*). It's to get an ACADEMIC education, and for some people to use this to succeed in a career. Any social or life skills learned are learned outside of class, through experience, as necessary.


 Please do not change the meaning of my message! I have NEVER said that university is some kind of "life coach".

How do you know that those life skills can not be taught anyway? Have you ever tried ANYWAY?

This kind of ACADEMIC education is currently receiving lots of criticism, and causing lots of people to have ADHD, anxiety, and depression. An educational revolution is highly demanded!



Remnant of Dawn said:


> I go to school for computer science. I want to learn, well, about math and computers. I don't really want to read Shakespeare or analyze poetry, but I acknowledge that the university requires this to make me a knowledgeable person. Fine. But the last thing I need is to waste more credits (and very likely stress) taking some useless course on "dating" or "socializing" that will get me nowhere.


The future education in my mind should not force you to learn life skills or Shakespeare or analyze poetry! *Every individual is different.*
*It is not an industrial process, but an organic process.*


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

anyoldkindofday said:


> I don't think you could teach life skills at a university, you can't learn how to live from a book, some lectures and an exam.
> ....QUOTE]
> Thank you for your message! :boogie
> 
> ...


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Niche said:


> Thank you for your agreement~  And yes, what I'm talking here is not a traditional university setting, and not an educational reform, but an educational revolution.
> 
> Please hold your horse. It's too early to conclude what the job of university is. If one says that the job of university is to educate people so that in future they can make contribution to humanity, then teaching life skills is indispensable. However, you can come up with different definition about the job of university, so this is a matter of debate.
> 
> ...


I have to admit I laughed at your picture (not in a bad way, just because it was clever). Trust me, I have trouble learning social skills too. Now, since I've never tried it, I guess you're right and I'm not qualified to say that you can't formally learn social skills (although it just seems a bit sketchy to me).

But the problem is I can't really tell what you're arguing. Words like "educational revolution" seem to imply that you want to completely overhaul the university system, whereas you also seem to be arguing to just essentially include a new major, or at least new set of classes, in universities (life studies or some such).

Either way, I still disagree. As for a complete overhaul...I think universities do a decent job giving you an academic education, which I believe is their primary purpose. Just as you should go to a trade school to learn to be an electrician or something, you can go to a personal "life coach" if you want to learn how to get a date. Why do you care if I think it's a scam or not? I would never judge anyone for trying it.

At MOST, universities could have a few optional elective classes teaching you "life skills". But, like I said, that's not their primary purpose. (I don't think universities are perfect, far from it, but it's just that this isn't exactly the area I have complaints in).



> I'm studying nuclear physics, and I do not think university could actually teach physics as well!


Just wondering, if universities don't teach physics, where would people who want to learn physics go?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I've seen that talk before and I like it, though it doesn't focus much on solutions. Thete's a lot more choice when it comes to uni than in schools though and it's optional too. Many degrees now are more vocational and also have work placements.


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## licorice (Oct 5, 2013)

I don't know how a university would teach many life skills, either, and it would be an expensive and optional way to learn them. One thing that I think would be useful in earlier education would be a class on emotional intelligence or EQ, which is tied to a variety of things in life including social skills and self-awareness.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> I have to admit I laughed at your picture (not in a bad way, just because it was clever). Trust me, I have trouble learning social skills too. Now, since I've never tried it, I guess you're right and I'm not qualified to say that you can't formally learn social skills (although it just seems a bit sketchy to me).


:teeth:teeth:teeth



Remnant of Dawn said:


> .....Just as you should go to a trade school to learn to be an electrician or something, you can go to a personal "life coach" if you want to learn how to get a date. Why do you care if I think it's a scam or not? I would never judge anyone for trying it.


Because what you think about the scam is very representative, and it is also what I may be afraid of - I may also worry that "life coach" swindles my money. That is part of the reason why I think that university teaching various life skills is more trustable and authentic than private coach. I feel that more and more complicated life skills will become an academic subject, and, consequently, we need a systematical and formal way to study them. University teaching is to formalize this process.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> At MOST, universities could have a few optional elective classes teaching you "life skills".


Then, it would be more than 200 students in one class, and another 100 students are on the waiting list. (Just a wild guess )



Remnant of Dawn said:


> (I don't think universities are perfect, far from it, but it's just that this isn't exactly the area I have complaints in).


Many many things are connected. if changing one area, many areas will be changed, and not only restricted within university. If university really teaches life skills, then our whole society and people's mind must be changed as well.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Just wondering, if universities don't teach physics, where would people who want to learn physics go?


I do not know where those people go. Personally, I want to go to math or computer department. Because physics is very demanding and ambitious, for example, we just spend 1 lecture to talk about what Manifold is, and half lecture to talk about Group Theory, and they expect me to do Fortran programming without teaching me anything about Fortran. When I ask professors to talk more, then they just say that they do not have time to teach those stuff, and ask me to learn by myself. Many math knowledge and computer knowledge are just crammed into my mind. I do not have proper understanding to any of this knowledge.

Another severe problem in my physics class is that NO female in my class and my research group. *Why are females so indifferent to higher-level physics?* Why is the ratio between male and female in the physics department so imbalanced? Traditional answer to this question is that male brain is good at logic, computation, and abstract thinking, whereas female brain is good at language, literature, and sensation. Although this answer may be partially true, I highly doubt this answer. I believe the main reason is that it is the fault or improper teaching due to our culture and schools, which cause this gender-imbalanced problem, and the innate difference between male and female brain is just one trivial factor. *Our education system fails to educate female to be interested in physics, and they greatly destroy the female curiosity upon physics research. *When people talk about General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, etc, a number of female nowadays even feel *scary and run away*! :no

I do not think our schools are able to teach physics properly.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Niche said:


> Then, it would be more than 200 students in one class, and another 100 students are on the waiting list. (Just a wild guess )


I highly doubt these classes would be so popular. But if so, so be it. Although introducing a formal area of study surrounding "relationship studies" or something seems to be nothing but a bizarre cross between psychology and gender studies, in my opinion. Really will just introduce another field for people to study and then complain when they can't get a job.

But, like I said, for electives outside your major I guess it's fine.



> I do not know where those people go. Personally, I want to go to math or computer department. Because physics is very demanding and ambitious, for example, we just spend 1 lecture to talk about what Manifold is, and half lecture to talk about Group Theory, and they expect me to do Fortran programming without teaching me anything about Fortran. When I ask professors to talk more, then they just say that they do not have time to teach those stuff, and ask me to learn by myself. Many math knowledge and computer knowledge are just crammed into my mind. I do not have proper understanding to any of this knowledge.
> 
> Another severe problem in my physics class is that NO female in my class and my research group. *Why are females so indifferent to higher-level physics?* Why is the ratio between male and female in the physics department so imbalanced? Traditional answer to this question is that male brain is good at logic, computation, and abstract thinking, whereas female brain is good at language, literature, and sensation. Although this answer may be partially true, I highly doubt this answer. I believe the main reason is that it is the fault or improper teaching due to our culture and schools, which cause this gender-imbalanced problem, and the innate difference between male and female brain is just one trivial factor. *Our education system fails to educate female to be interested in physics, and they greatly destroy the female curiosity upon physics research. *When people talk about General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, etc, a number of female nowadays even feel *scary and run away*! :no
> 
> I do not think our schools are able to teach physics properly.


So let me get this straight...because your school teaches physics poorly, all schools should stop teaching physics altogether? Like I said, then where would people who want to learn physics go? I have nothing against changing the way physics is taught if you believe it's not being taught well, but why do away with it altogether?

As for the gender imbalance in physics...the root cause there stretches way beyond university or even lower education. Universities, from my experience, do everything they can and more to increase the number of women in science fields. The reason we have yet to reach a balance is because of social biases from outside academia, and possibly due to genetics/biology (I don't know about this part).

I'm sorry, but the reason I have trouble taking any of this seriously is because you seem to have no idea what you want. First it's teaching life skills in universities, then it's physics departments with unrealistic expectations, and then it's unequal gender representation in the sciences. You say you want a "revolution" but only give an array of disconnected ideas regarding issues and potential solutions that don't seem related to these issues. Forgive me for coming to the conclusion that you're simply frustrated (probably rightfully so) with the education system and so are spitting off a stream of quotes you got from Youtube videos.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> So let me get this straight...because your school teaches physics poorly, all schools should stop teaching physics altogether?


They should keep trying to teach physics, through trying and practice, they can improve their teaching better and better. So are life skills, they should at least try to teach life skills. If they do not try, then they are NEVER able to teach life skills!



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Like I said, then where would people who want to learn physics go? I have nothing against changing the way physics is taught if you believe it's not being taught well, but why do away with it altogether?


Like I said, I do not know where those people go, because *Every individual is different. *They may stay where they stay, or leave.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> As for the gender imbalance in physics...the root cause there stretches way beyond university or even lower education.


Not only the problem of gender imbalance, those roots of *almost all* educational problems are way beyond university or even lower education. *Educational problems, in nature, are society problems.*



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Universities, from my experience, do everything they can and more to increase the number of women in science fields.


They did many things, but not everything they can.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> I'm sorry, but the reason I have trouble taking any of this seriously is because you seem to have no idea what you want.


The title of this thread is about "misconception about university", and I am here to talk or help people to realize the current problems existed in the university. I am NOT here to talk how to do educational revolution, how to change education system. If I want to talk about that, then I will start another new thread titled with "How to do educational revolution".



Remnant of Dawn said:


> First it's teaching life skills in universities, then it's physics departments with unrealistic expectations, and then it's unequal gender representation in the sciences. You say you want a "revolution" but only give an array of disconnected ideas regarding issues and potential solutions that don't seem related to these issues.


*I am presenting those problems here, and no attempt to solve them;* otherwise the title of this thread must be changed again. Also, the reason why I am talking about problem in physics is because you and other people do not think that university is able to teach life skills, so I am trying to generalize this problem a little bit by saying that, currently, university is not able to teach or teach poorly in many things, such as physics and art. 


Remnant of Dawn said:


> Forgive me for coming to the conclusion that you're simply frustrated (probably rightfully so) with the education system and so are spitting off a stream of quotes you got from Youtube videos.


Yeah, I am indeed frustrated! Those Youtube videos are from world-wide notable educationalist, and I use them as reference to support my ideas. I wish you could find some reference to support your ideas. Thanks!


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## Omgblood (Jun 30, 2010)

I agree for the most part. My experience in college (3 years) thus far has taught me how to think critically and outside the box, but most importantly college has only made me good at college. It has not helped me how to interact with others and what a work environment might be like, what to expect at work and how to deal with work. Also they make you learn alot of impractical things, and take impractical classes and worst making you pay for that.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Niche said:


> They should keep trying to teach physics, through trying and practice, they can improve their teaching better and better. So are life skills, they should at least try to teach life skills. If they do not try, then they are NEVER able to teach life skills!


That's not what you said before, though. Before, you said they should stop teaching physics completely. I agree that they should work to improve their teaching.



> Not only the problem of gender imbalance, those roots of *almost all* educational problems are way beyond university or even lower education. *Educational problems, in nature, are society problems.*


I agree with this.



> They did many things, but not everything they can.


You're not going to like my opinion on this, and it's not really relevant to the current discussion, so I'm not going to give it.



> The title of this thread is about "misconception about university", and I am here to talk or help people to realize the current problems existed in the university. I am NOT here to talk how to do educational revolution, how to change education system. If I want to talk about that, then I will start another new thread titled with "How to do educational revolution".
> 
> *I am presenting those problems here, and no attempt to solve them;* otherwise the title of this thread must be changed again. Also, the reason why I am talking about problem in physics is because you and other people do not think that university is able to teach life skills, so I am trying to generalize this problem a little bit by saying that, currently, university is not able to teach or teach poorly in many things, such as physics and art.


Ah, this clarifies alot for me. I see your point now. I still disagree, though. The purpose of university is to instruct you in academic areas. Life skills are not academic subjects. Sure, you could create academic fields surrounding life skills, but it would then become the study of these skills themselves and _not actually learning how to use them. _. You might study how people learn them best, or how some people are innately better at them than others. This would be interesting, but not, I think, what you were going for.

Like I said earlier, if you want to learn a non-academic subject, that's fine, but university is not the place.



> Yeah, I am indeed frustrated! Those Youtube videos are from world-wide notable educationalist, and I use them as reference to support my ideas. I wish you could find some reference to support your ideas. Thanks!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

I think this would fall under "cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter", but correct me if I'm wrong.

I never said that universities were perfect. In fact, I would agree that lots of times they can kill creativity, particularly with classes that encourage students to adapt the professor's way of thinking/interpretations/political viewpoints or face a lesser grade. I just finished an entire semester of a course in which I repeatedly wrote essays arguing things I completely disagreed with because I knew the instructor would agree. Now was that necessary? I don't know. But I wasn't about to risk my grade to find out. Clearly this could be a serious flaw. (Luckily I can hide in my STEM classes, though).

I just don't happen to agree that the one flaw that you pointed out is really a flaw.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

Lacking Serotonin said:


> I thought most people went to school to drink, drug and get married.


This ^^^^


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> That's not what you said before, though. Before, you said they should stop teaching physics completely. I agree that they should work to improve their teaching.


 Again, that is your Hallucination! Please do not change the meaning of my messages! I have NEVER said that they should stop teaching physics. Yet, it's good that you finally agree.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Ah, this clarifies alot for me. I see your point now. I still disagree, though. The purpose of university is to instruct you in academic areas. Life skills are not academic subjects. Sure, you could create academic fields surrounding life skills, but *it would then become the study of these skills themselves and not actually learning how to use them. .* You might study how people learn them best, or how some people are innately better at them than others. This would be interesting, but not, I think, what you were going for.


Making bold conclusion or footless imagination without actually trying or doing experiment is very dangerous. Moreover, *the starting step is always very difficult, and the initial result is very likely to be disastrous. However, we should not stop trying. Without trying, without improvement.*

And like I said before, it is too early to conclude what purpose of university is; even in different country, the purpose of university is different.



Remnant of Dawn said:


> Like I said earlier, if you want to learn a non-academic subject, that's fine, but university is not the place.


Currently, yes. In future, who knows?!


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Omgblood said:


> ...... but *most importantly college has only made me good at college.* It has not helped me how to interact with others and what a work environment might be like, what to expect at work and how to deal with work. .......


Ture. Moreover, if the college made me good at life skills, then I would do significantly better at college academics.


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Niche said:


> Again, that is your Hallucination! Please do not change the meaning of my messages! I have NEVER said that they should stop teaching physics. Yet, it's good that you finally agree.
> 
> Making bold conclusion or footless imagination without actually trying or doing experiment is very dangerous. Moreover, *the starting step is always very difficult, and the initial result is very likely to be disastrous. However, we should not stop trying. Without trying, without improvement.*
> 
> ...


Okay, then I guess we've pretty much gotten as far as we can in this discussion. I simply don't think what you're asking for should fall within the job of universities to teach. Since, like you said, there's no definitive answer on what the actual job of a university is, there's no real way to come to a definitive answer on this either.

Thanks for discussing this though, I've enjoyed it.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Remnant of Dawn said:


> Thanks for discussing this though, I've enjoyed it.


 YOU'RE WELCOME! :clap


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## Raeden (Feb 8, 2013)

Niche said:


> Our education system is glad to teach you Shakespeare literature, ancient history, algebraic number theory, and so on, but is not willing to teach you many basic life skills, such as how to become a happy person, how to manage personal finance, how to invest to stock market, how to build and maintain relationship, how to cope with dating, how to makeover, how to lose weight, etc.


I pretty much had a class last semester that tried to teach us how to live a happy life, and it didn't go over too well.

Besides, I'm not going to university to learn about how to date, how to be a happy person, or anything like that. Anyways, these are the kind of things that are probably best learned through life experience rather than sitting around in a classroom. Instead, I'm going to college so that I can learn engineering so that I can be prepared for a job in that field so that I can earn a living for myself.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Lacking Serotonin said:


> I thought most people went to school to drink, drug and get married.


I thought that too. :yes

Im going to college so I can have a chance of working at paradox development studios, i don't care about life skills because i know i'll never be good at them.
I think your taught about the stock market in econ and finance.


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## Common Misconception (Jun 4, 2012)

Even before going to college, I knew that University was solely a means to acquire a piece of paper, saying that you can do "such and such" and make "such and such" amount of money. Having a career definitely helps with living, but if University was truly a means to be prepared in life, then you wouldn't find homeless people on the street with bachelors and masters degrees.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Raeden said:


> I pretty much had a class last semester that tried to teach us how to live a happy life, and it didn't go over too well.


Such "happy" class needs to be taught, experimented, and improved for several decades before it goes well. *Without trying hard, without great improvement.
*


Raeden said:


> Besides, I'm not going to university to learn about how to date, how to be a happy person, or anything like that. Anyways, these are the kind of things that are probably best learned through life experience rather than sitting around in a classroom. Instead, I'm going to college so that I can learn engineering so that I can be prepared for a job in that field so that I can earn a living for myself.


*Every individual is different.* Some people can learn life skills by themselves through experience; some can not and need teacher to help them, such as me. However, if I pay money to private life coach, I am afraid of being scammed! So I wish school to teach me.



galacticsenator said:


> Im going to college so I can have a chance of working at paradox development studios, i don't care about life skills because i know i'll never be good at them.
> I think your taught about the stock market in econ and finance.


You'll never be good at them if you think that you'll never be good at them.

I took the first year econ. It is a rather impractical and abstract theory. After finishing the two courses with double A+'s, I still do not know how to manage personal finance and do wise investment.



Common Misconception said:


> Having a career definitely helps with living, but if University was truly a means to be prepared in life, then you wouldn't find homeless people on the street with bachelors and masters degrees.


That is just part of the reason. Another important part of the reason is due to Academic Inflation, which degrees are devaluated due to too many Bachelors and Masters. In future, university education will definitely be changed or replaced by new type of education.


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## Common Misconception (Jun 4, 2012)

Niche said:


> That is just part of the reason. Another important part of the reason is due to Academic Inflation, which degrees are devaluated due to too many Bachelors and Masters. In future, university education will definitely be changed or replaced by new type of education.


Yes, that's very true.

I think another huge problem, (and why many people probably have misconceptions about University) is that kids are pushed from the time of grade school to go to college/University. That you NEED to go to college to be anywhere in life. And they just push and push kids, brain washing them that college is the only answer, and then they go to college, pursue 18th British Literature, spend thousands upon thousands of dollars, graduate, and swiftly realize that there just isn't a job market to sustain that type of career.

I wish Universities would scrap all the careers that are completely useless, but I guess that will only happen when people stop being greedy or when pigs fly; and I'm guessing the 2nd option will happen first.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

Common Misconception said:


> Yes, that's very true.


:boogie:boogie


Common Misconception said:


> I think another huge problem, (and why many people probably have misconceptions about University) is that kids are pushed from the time of grade school to go to college/University. That you NEED to go to college to be anywhere in life.


Then I'll tell those kids that:" well, little ginger kids, I had finished all my undergraduate work in the university with the highest GPA in my department in that year, however, now I end nowhere in my life except mental disorder with poor social skills. :no Kids, do what you really like to do! You're the one to decide your future. Be yourself."



Common Misconception said:


> I wish Universities would scrap all the *careers* that are completely useless, but I guess that will only happen when people stop being greedy or when pigs fly; and I'm guessing the 2nd option will happen first.


You probably mean "majors" provided by university, rather than "careers", right? (Since job market determine careers, and university provide majors.)

It is hard to say whether a specific major is useless or useful. This depends on personal view from each individual, who come to school with different purpose. Some people think that a major is useful even if that major can not help them to earn money, because, other than money, some people do have other demands, such as satisfying their curiosity, or keep their body fit, etc. But other people may think that the same major is useless due to different reason. *Every individual is different. 
*


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## explorink (Jan 18, 2014)

I decided long, long ago that university is not for me and I don't plan on spending years in a building that will make me miserable. I have no love for the education they can supply and I don't want my best years to be spent in uni. 

I have done my research and planned my future and know exactly what I'll do, but everyone around me seems to think that the only way to succeed is to go to uni and that if I don't, I'm a good for nothing lazy scum. 

Well.


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## Niche (Dec 28, 2013)

explorink said:


> I decided long, long ago that university is not for me and I don't plan on spending years in a building that will make me miserable. I have no love for the education they can supply and I don't want my best years to be spent in uni. ....


There is nothing wrong in your decision. Believe yourself and be peace!

There is a life story from Jeremy Soule, who is an American composer of soundtracks for film, television and video games (I hope his life story could inspire you in some way, but *no attempt* to say that in order to success you should follow his path):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Soule

Jeremy Soule, born in Keokuk, Iowa to a public school music teacher father and a graphic designer mother, became interested in music and symphony orchestras at the age of five.[5][6][7] Soule began taking piano lessons at an early age and became entranced with music, even writing music notation in the margins of his math homework; after his teachers and his father realized his talent, he began taking private lessons with professors from Western Illinois University when he was in sixth grade.[8][9] He claims to have earned the equivalent of a Master's Degree in composition before completing high school, though, as he never enrolled in the school, he did not earn a degree.[8] He was split between trying to become a concert pianist and a composer when he grew up; he ended up deciding to become a composer once he realized how difficult it would be to do both.[6]


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