# Practice Boyfriend/Girlfriend What is your take?



## Eternal Solitude (Jun 11, 2017)

^


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## appledapple (Mar 27, 2018)

i have mixed feelings on this one lol. but if i had to say, it really depends on the situation as a whole. is the person ok with doing this and is it going to change the friendship/bond that they hold, all that stuff.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Eternal Solitude said:


> ^


On the one hand, I think its a great idea: a lot of relationship problems boil down to lack of practice. But on the other hand, if the "practice" boyfriend/girlfriend thinks there is any hope for "practice" to make you better, why wouldn't they consider becoming real ones down the road? So yeah, I guess I just think that people should give each other opportunity to "practice" before making a final yes or no decision, which wouldn't be exactly "practice" then, but thats my take on it.


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## Karsten (Apr 3, 2007)

I don't know what this means.


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## Eternal Solitude (Jun 11, 2017)

Karsten said:


> I don't know what this means.


A practice BF/GF is when an inexperienced individual enters a relationship with someone who they feel little to no attraction in order to gain "experience ". In other words ,a practice GF/BF is simply a stepping stone while something better comes along.

At first glance one can clearly see the devastating consequences that this type of relationship can have. But what if they're both inexperienced and could benefit from this arrangement?

I suppose that it can be summed up as a covert form of friends with benefits.


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## Lostbeauties (Nov 15, 2017)

A practice Boyfriend? I'm confused, would he know this is a "practice" relationship also or he thinks it's real while I know it's for practice? Either way I don't think it would work out between us.


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## Karsten (Apr 3, 2007)

Eternal Solitude said:


> A practice BF/GF is when an inexperienced individual enters a relationship with someone who they feel little to no attraction in order to gain "experience ". In other words ,a practice GF/BF is simply a stepping stone while something better comes along.
> 
> At first glance one can clearly see the devastating consequences that this type of relationship can have. But what if they're both inexperienced and could benefit from this arrangement?
> 
> I suppose that it can be summed up as a covert form of friends with benefits.


It sounds pretty hollow to me. What is there to practice? How to show affection? The mechanisms of kissing? Making love? Each person is going to be different honestly.

Also, if there's no feelings involved, I don't see how that's an accurate representation of a real relationship. You'd be surprised how differently you'd act when intense feelings are involved.

I think most of the learning is about managing yourself and not necessarily how to "serve" your partner so to speak. Confronting your insecurities, allowing yourself to be open, etc. These things don't reveal themselves until there are feelings involved.


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## Kalakotkas (Feb 15, 2018)

I don't think I could ever do that. I'm interested in building real relationships, otherwise I'd rather stay alone.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Karsten said:


> It sounds pretty hollow to me. What is there to practice? How to show affection? The mechanisms of kissing?


There are plenty of things to practice. Most of my past relationships fell through due to simple miscommunications, and if I were to have some practice the whole thing could have gone completely differently. But then again what I wanted to say was "okay I messed up but that was a practice run, give me another chance" so I yes I wanted it to be more than just practice on the long run, but it could have been practice up until I was ready for it to be real with THE SAME girl.


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## CloudChaser (Nov 7, 2013)

Well, technically all relationships you have before the last one are practice ones. Even if you don't know it at the time. 

You could even get married, have children and divorce and still consider it 'practice'.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

CloudChaser said:


> Well, technically all relationships you have before the last one are practice ones. Even if you don't know it at the time.
> 
> You could even get married, have children and divorce and still consider it 'practice'.


What if nobody is willing to date you, then you have no opportunity to "practice" and you are stuck in a perpetual circle: people don't want to date you because of your lack of practice and you don't have a practice because nobody wants to date you.

So its a good idea to break this cycle by agreeing to have practice relationship. The only caveat is that the door has to be left open for the "practice" to turn into a real thing in case you do well.


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## Eternal Solitude (Jun 11, 2017)

Lostbeauties said:


> A practice Boyfriend? I'm confused, would he know this is a "practice" relationship also or he thinks it's real while I know it's for practice? Either way I don't think it would work out between us.


That is the catch...

The individual that is being lead might believe that the relationship is real. Learning the truth could be catastrophic and extremely hurtful.

It sounds extremely selfish and rightfully so, but at the same time and as Cloudchaser pointed out that every relationship is "practice". You learn from your mistakes and don't do them again. The difference here is that one party is aware of the ephemerality of their relationship.


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## LightUpTheAzureSky (Mar 6, 2018)

Eternal Solitude said:


> A practice BF/GF is when an inexperienced individual enters a relationship with someone who they feel little to no attraction in order to gain "experience ". In other words ,a practice GF/BF is simply a stepping stone while something better comes along.
> 
> At first glance one can clearly see the devastating consequences that this type of relationship can have. But what if they're both inexperienced and could benefit from this arrangement?
> 
> I suppose that it can be summed up as a covert form of friends with benefits.


Things are completely different when intense emotions are involved, to the point where this 'practice' might not even do you any good when you have the real thing.
It would probably better to find someone you like and really click with, explain that you are inexperienced and learn as you go.

if they don't know, it's not 'covert FWB', it's using someone. js.


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## kesker (Mar 29, 2011)

inadvertant "practice" is good = experience. 
contrived practice sounds a bit inhumane.


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## 0589471 (Apr 21, 2012)

kesker said:


> inadvertant "practice" is good = experience.
> contrived practice sounds a bit inhumane.


^ Agreed, it's just inhumane. Also like Karsten said, there's a big difference when real feelings are involved. You're almost like a different person, versus when you're just faking it.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

If both parties are aware, fine, otherwise no ****ing way. Total lack of empathy needed otherwise.


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## Lostbeauties (Nov 15, 2017)

Well, I think everything in life is practice. There's no such thing as a "practice" relationship and a "real" relationship, it's a relationship. You either take it as it is or drop the cap. I mean I've never heard of a practice relationship before, is that actually a thing?


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

I think it's a pretty ****ty thing to do to another person, no matter how you try to rationalize it to yourself. Don't play with people's hearts.

If you want some kind of "practice", find someone who is willing to practice with you and who knows that it's practice. Deception is cruel no matter how you try to justify it.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

what the...

Ah yeah, the old using someone, or a rebound?
Might as well just be honest and do the hookup thing so no one gets hurt.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Eternal Solitude said:


> That is the catch...
> 
> The individual that is being lead might believe that the relationship is real. Learning the truth could be catastrophic and extremely hurtful.


Then I misunderstood what you were referring to in the OP. I thought you were talking about the situation where both sides explicitly agreed that its "practice". But apparently you were trying to talk about something else.

Are you saying that you or someone you know were mislead in this way?


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

You can practice talking to women all the time at work, forums, dating sites, support groups etc. You cant fake a relationship though. If there is no emotion there then you aren't going to be confronted by the problems the mind games and so on.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

andy0128 said:


> You can practice talking to women all the time at work, forums, dating sites, support groups etc. You cant fake a relationship though. If there is no emotion there then you aren't going to be confronted by the problems the mind games and so on.


Then maybe I have a different perspective:

1. To me just about any interaction with women have an emotion attached: pride. And that particular emotion is what creates by far more difficulties than any other

2. If what you said about the safety of loveless relationship was true, then that would be a reason to have one. After all, it would be a safe place to go home to, and thats by far more important than love if the latter goes with an emotional rollercoaster.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> Then maybe I have a different perspective:
> 
> 1. To me just about any interaction with women have an emotion attached: pride. And that particular emotion is what creates by far more difficulties than any other
> 
> 2. If what you said about the safety of loveless relationship was true, then that would be a reason to have one. After all, it would be a safe place to go home to, and thats by far more important than love if the latter goes with an emotional rollercoaster.


What sort of woman are you interested in? Can you describe your ideal type of woman?


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ms kim said:


> What sort of woman are you interested in? Can you describe your ideal type of woman?


Someone that can be there for me emotionally, someone I can talk to about anything and feel comfortable around no matter what, someone who treats me as an equal, and who shares with me as much of her own stuff as I share with her. Someone who can spend time with me (go for the movies and so forth) when I am lonely and give me space when I need time to study. Preferably someone with higher education, graduate level education is a bonus, and preferably someone who shares my religious beliefs. But those last two things are optional.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> Someone that can be there for me emotionally, someone I can talk to about anything and feel comfortable around no matter what, someone who treats me as an equal, and who shares with me as much of her own stuff as I share with her. Someone who can spend time with me (go for the movies and so forth) when I am lonely and give me space when I need time to study. Preferably someone with higher education, graduate level education is a bonus, and preferably someone who shares my religious beliefs. But those last two things are optional.


That sounds normal. I thought you would have said something weird. I would also add patience to the list. You need a lady with lots & lots of patience, and someone who is a good listener. Someone who does less talking and more listening.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ms kim said:


> Someone who does less talking and more listening.


That would make me feel like she is a caretaker. I would prefer we both talk and listen about the same. The only reason it sounds like I like to talk a lot more than to listen is that I am trying to make up for the fact that I feel unheard. But ideally, I would like to be in a situation when I no longer feel that way, and can finally be normal for once.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> That would make me feel like she is a caretaker. I would prefer we both talk and listen about the same. The only reason it sounds like I like to talk a lot more than to listen is that I am trying to make up for the fact that I feel unheard. But ideally, I would like to be in a situation when I no longer feel that way, and can finally be normal for once.


What "pride" do you feel when interacting with women? Does this emotion extend to women you are not attracted to, and could you be happy settling in a relationship, for the rest of your life, with someone you didn't love?


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ms kim said:


> What "pride" do you feel when interacting with women?


By pride I mean if I make social mistake and she reacts to it by withdrawing rather than giving me a chance to explain myself I get mad. But that part can be dealt with by learning social skills, which I obviously can't do alone, but I hope to learn it while in a relationship.



Ms kim said:


> Does this emotion extend to women you are not attracted to


Yes.



Ms kim said:


> and could you be happy settling in a relationship, *for the rest of your life,* with someone you didn't love?


Good point. I haven't thought of the bolded part. Settling "would" solve loneliness in the here and now (as happened before) but it might lead to regrets at the end of my life.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> By pride I mean if I make social mistake and she reacts to it by withdrawing rather than giving me a chance to explain myself I get mad. But that part can be dealt with by learning social skills, which I obviously can't do alone, but I hope to learn it while in a relationship.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Good point. I haven't thought of the bolded part. Settling "would" solve loneliness in the here and now (as happened before) but it might lead to regrets at the end of my life.


You don't have to be in a relationship to learn social skills. In fact it would be better you learned it before, by interacting with various people.

Like sometime ago, I was told that if you are sitting around a table with a group of people, you should wait until everyone's meal is served before you start eating. I usually eat alone, so this isn't something that would have occurred to me. But at least I can keep it in the back of my head for when I'm eating with others. So it's best to know things before hand.

There is no practicing in relationships. Especially if its someone new you're just dating. You have to get it right the first time, and at all times. If someone has no emotional attachment to you, like a person you're going out with on a first date, the least thing can turn them off. There won't be a second date.

In the chat logs that you've posted previously(the ones with you interacting with females) you tended to be long winded. In the same way that you are responding to me in this conversation, If you respond like this instead of being long winded, then the conversation will likely run smoothly. Really, it's not hard.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ms kim said:


> You don't have to be in a relationship to learn social skills. In fact it would be better you learned it before, by interacting with various people.
> 
> Like sometime ago, I was told that if you are sitting around a table with a group of people, you should wait until everyone's meal is served before you start eating. I usually eat alone, so this isn't something that would have occurred to me. But at least I can keep it in the back of my head for when I'm eating with others. So it's best to know things before hand.
> 
> ...


I can see what you are saying. But the problem is that my social skills don't boil down to just one or two rules (such as when I start eating) but a combination of lots of them. And thats why its hard to learn that unless I practice. Apart from not having relatinships, I don't have friends either so I have nobody to practice with. I guess I could start from the Bible studies I am going to, but I have a sense they already don't like me.


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## A Void Ant (Mar 10, 2012)

This idea of practicing disturbs me. Aren't people supposed to be themselves, be natural? I have no experience but I wouldn't want a practice girl. I'm only looking for the real deal and she should either like me or not.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

A Void Ant said:


> This idea of practicing disturbs me. Aren't people supposed to be themselves, be natural? I have no experience but I wouldn't want a practice girl. I'm only looking for the real deal and she should either like me or not.


Didn't your parents make you practice various things when you were little? So yeah, learning is a good thing. But its lifelong process, just like you learn when you are little you should continue learning throughout your life.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> I can see what you are saying. But the problem is that my social skills don't boil down to just one or two rules (such as when I start eating) but a combination of lots of them. And thats why its hard to learn that unless I practice. Apart from not having relatinships, I don't have friends either so I have nobody to practice with. I guess I could start from the Bible studies I am going to, *but I have a sense they already don't like me*.


 hmmm I wonder why  after all, you're such a charming fellow


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ms kim said:


> hmmm I wonder why  after all, you're such a charming fellow


Thats why I talk about needing to practice. Its not like I was trying to put them off: on the contrary I was hoping to make friends. So if I had good intentions but end up allienating people, that means I lack social skills -- hence the need to practice.


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## discoveryother (Sep 18, 2016)

practice is a horrible chore.


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## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

This idea sorta reminds me of that episode of Black Mirror in the latest season, the dating service one. Only a bit though.


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## Lonely Hobbit (Aug 31, 2009)

Some prostitutes offer a girlfriend experience. That's probably a more realistic option since no girl would want to be a man's "practice" for free.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Lonely Hobbit said:


> Some prostitutes offer a girlfriend experience. That's probably a more realistic option since no girl would want to be a man's "practice" for free.


Thanks - I thought I was going to have to be the one to impart this wisdom.


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## Sus y (Aug 30, 2017)

No way. No. I would rather stay alone than having to be with someone I don't like, I try to build genuine relationships for them to be meaningful to me and I hope those who I invite to my spaces can think of me the same way. 

As others also mentioned, if two agree to toy each other or have fun while it last or whatever is mutual, then is ok I guess, not so much when the other part isn't aware that it means nothing to their gf/bf and they are used as a tool.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Lonely Hobbit said:


> Some prostitutes offer a girlfriend experience. That's probably a more realistic option since no girl would want to be a man's "practice" for free.


How can you possibly practice social skills in this situation?

You: What were you up to yesterday night?
Her: Seeing some other client

So I guess she would have to pretend to have a different life; that would be a whole lot of pretending, LOL.

The practice relationship where it is decided ahead of time to never date is also too much pretending (which is the other reason I want the door for actual relationship to be open) but not quite as bad as prostitution since at least the friendship part is genuine.

In any case, prostitution isn't legal anyway.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Sus y said:


> I try to build genuine relationships for them to be meaningful to me and I hope those who I invite to my spaces can think of me the same way.


Its possible to have a meaningful relationship without actually being in love with the other person. I wasn't in love with my ex's (I was settling) but my relationship with them was meaningful, they were genuinely part of my life, and I felt that a big part of my life was missing when they left me (and yes, they were the ones that left me, not the other way around, so I never planned on using them and leaving, I was planning on staying).


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## Sus y (Aug 30, 2017)

causalset said:


> Its possible to have a meaningful relationship without actually being in love with the other person. I wasn't in love with my ex's (I was settling) but my relationship with them was meaningful, they were genuinely part of my life, and I felt that a big part of my life was missing when they left me (and yes, they were the ones that left me, not the other way around, so I never planned on using them and leaving, I was planning on staying).


Well, to me it's not possible to have a meaningful relationship if you are using the other person and that other person isn't aware of how much you don't care and you fake you do. If both know there isn't love but just whatever else, then it's ok and it could be meaningful still, as a friendship is, but that's just my opinion.

*On another note when I mentioned relationship I was talking about all kind of relationships not just romantic ones.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Sus y said:


> Well, to me it's not possible to have a meaningful relationship if you are using the other person and that other person isn't aware of *how much you don't care* and you fake you do, but that's just my opinion.


Once again, I DID care. Its possible to care about the other person without being in love. Friends do that all the time. All I am saying is that, contrary to conventional belief, the friendship-type of feeling can be the basis for a relationship.



Sus y said:


> If both know there isn't love but just whatever else, then it's ok and it could be meaningful still, as a friendship is, but that's just my opinion.


Yeah, and I am suggesting that both sides honestly tell each other they aren't in love, but agree to date anyway. And that dating won't be pretend since they plan on staying together and not looking for anyone else.

They can also work towards cultivating love down the road.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Sounds very cruel.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I find it easier to practice in my head, since that's the only place real relationships can happen anyway.


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## Sus y (Aug 30, 2017)

I'm just learning that apparently, my idea of dating, getting a gf/bf maybe isn't updated lol.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Sus y said:


> I'm just learning that apparently, my idea of dating, getting a gf/bf maybe isn't updated lol.


What I am saying doesn't represent society at large. On the contrary I am upset most ppl won't do what I am suggesting. I also suspect that in the past things were closer to what I want them to be: people became superficial and snotty nowdays. But then again, grass is greener on the other side.


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## Sus y (Aug 30, 2017)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I find it easier to practice in my head, since that's the only place real relationships can happen anyway.


For me, not even there haha.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

.


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## Mondo_Fernando (Jun 26, 2014)

Cherry 2000. 

She will never run out on you, but short out. :sus :grin2:


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## momentsunset (Nov 10, 2009)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Hmmm. I'm not sure what this thread is even about and I should probably read it before I respond but I didn't so there's that.
> 
> Yeah. I think anyone who is really seriously looking to get into a relationship should at least try to imagine that they're stuck in a romantic/sexual/financial relationship with someone they just despise. Because I think there's about a 75% chance that every relationship is going to go there eventually. And when it does, you might have an easy way out of it and you might not.
> 
> ...


Well said, especially that last part. :yes :clap


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Hmmm. I'm not sure what this thread is even about and I should probably read it before I respond but I didn't so there's that.
> 
> Yeah. I think anyone who is really seriously looking to get into a relationship should at least try to imagine that they're stuck in a romantic/sexual/financial relationship with someone they just despise. Because I think there's about a 75% chance that every relationship is going to go there eventually. And when it does, you might have an easy way out of it and you might not.
> 
> ...


None of my relationships reached the point of marriage or kids (although marriage was discussed and I was terrified of an idea) but, in two out of three of my long term relationships, they did reach a point where I couldn't stand them. Still, however, what alternative do you suggest? To live a very lonely life and die single and childless? Why not instead learn social skills so that my next relationship won't deteriorate the way the past ones did. I know it won't apply to crazy people, but I doubt 75℅ of people are outright crazy.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't really see what there is to "practice." If you are not into the person, then more than likely you will not bend over backwards for them like you would for someone you are really into. You won't get jealous like you would for someone you are into since you know they probably can't do any better than you.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

causalset said:


> Still, however, what alternative do you suggest?


 I suggest a practice relationship that really puts you through the ringer. Like I said.

Of course this is a hypothetical, as I don't know of any way you could actually do it. You'd have to find someone who would play this game with you willingly and not pull punches.



> To live very lonely life and die single and childless?


 You're only lonely if you can't stand yourself. And if you can't stand yourself, why would anyone else want to put up with you?

This is the problem with people who are fundamentally not happy. If you're not happy with yourself and it shows, people are going to run from you. Either right away or when they realize you're using them for entertainment because you can't entertain yourself.



> I doubt 75℅ of people are outright crazy.


 Depends on the day.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

komorikun said:


> I don't really see what there is to "practice." If you are not into the person, then more than likely you will not bend over backwards for them like you would for someone you are really into. You won't get jealous like you would for someone you are into since you know they probably can't do any better than you.


 That's easy for a guy. Men are into every woman who looks attractive. When it comes right down to it. Sure, if they can afford to be picky they'll split hairs. If they're desperate, they'll take anyone who gives them the time of day.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

WillYouStopDave said:


> You're only lonely if you can't stand yourself. And if you can't stand yourself, why would anyone else want to put up with you?
> 
> This is the problem with people who are fundamentally not happy. If you're not happy with yourself and it shows, people are going to run from you. Either right away or when they realize you're using them for entertainment because you can't entertain yourself.


So true.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

WillYouStopDave said:


> You're only lonely if you can't stand yourself. And if you can't stand yourself, why would anyone else want to put up with you?


No, I can't stand seeing happy couples and how much I miss out. If I truly couldn't stand myself, why is it I wanted some me-time back when I was in relationships? So clearly I get along with myself just fine. But I want a healthy balance of me-time and time together. And I can't get that balance if everyone avoids me.

Also, I don't get the concept of "fundamentally unhappy". Happiness or unhappiness is always about something. If my unhappiness is about the fact that I am single, it would go away once I am no longer single.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

komorikun said:


> You won't get jealous like you would for someone you are into since you know they probably can't do any better than you.


You just confirmed something I always suspected: when a girl tells me we are not a good match, its not that "*we* are different" but rather its that "*I* am inferior", as evident from her assuming that I won't get any other quality woman either (see your own quote). No wonder I want a girlfriend in order to save my self-esteem.

And this brings the issue of practice. If my inferiority is due to my poor social skills, why not do some practice to improve them?


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)

It might only work if this arrangement is mutual. Even if it is, humans have emotions. So it will not be long before both or either one starts feeling intimated for the other. Or they feel used. Unless at least one of the people are an robotic or android, this will not work for too long before it blows up. 

This is usually something I only see in movies or tv shows. In real life, emotions aren't as simple as this.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue Dino said:


> So it will not be long before both or either one starts feeling intimated for the other.


Isn't this even better? The girls that reject me always say that they just can't help the fact that they don't feel it. Well, apparently they *can* make themselves love me, as your quote suggests, they just don't want to. So why not tell me honestly why not? I mean seriously I don't understand why people deliberately block themselves from falling in love because of some shallow judgement that they decided to stick to.


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)

causalset said:


> Isn't this even better? The girls that reject me always say that they just can't help the fact that they don't feel it. Well, apparently they *can* make themselves love me, as your quote suggests, they just don't want to. So why not tell me honestly why not? I mean seriously I don't understand why people deliberately block themselves from falling in love because of some shallow judgement that they decided to stick to.


I think for this to work, there has to be at least some mutual attraction initially. So if one person isn't even a bit attractive to the other, this will not work. In a physical sense, sex is still... sex. This is why I am not sure how often things like these actually happens in real life compare to what is portrayed in movies/shows.


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> Isn't this even better? The girls that reject me always say that they just can't help the fact that they don't feel it. Well, apparently they *can* make themselves love me, as your quote suggests, they just don't want to. So why not tell me honestly why not? I mean seriously I don't understand why people deliberately block themselves from falling in love because of some shallow judgement that they decided to stick to.


Go to sleep. It's past your bed time


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue Dino said:


> I think for this to work, there has to be at least some mutual attraction initially. So if one person isn't even a bit attractive to the other, this will not work. In a physical sense, sex is still... sex. This is why I am not sure how often things like these actually happens in real life compare to what is portrayed in movies/shows.


It's really interesting. On the one hand, you are saying that if you spend enough time together some feelings will develop; on the other hand, you are saying the relationship won't work if feelings weren't there initially. But why is it important whether the feelings were there initially if they develop eventually? Why would the past feelings invalidate the present ones?

P.S. I don't believe in sex before marriage but I guess what you said and my subsequent question would still apply if you replace the word sex with the word relationship.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ms kim said:


> Go to sleep. It's past your bed time


Its past your bed time too. You are an hour ahead of me.

Funny how you were "surprised that my answer wasn't weird" but then you again put me down when I told you people at the Bible study don't like me. In other words I am being put down for being a victim. No wonder I want a girlfriend in order to dispense of my victim status that everyone holds against me.


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## Wren611 (Oct 19, 2012)

Eternal Solitude said:


> ^


Having now found out what this means... not for me. Though I'm not inexperienced with relationships, I'm just inexperienced with life in general.


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)

causalset said:


> It's really interesting. On the one hand, you are saying that if *you spend enough time together some feelings will develop; on the other hand, you are saying the relationship won't work if feelings weren't there initially.* But why is it important whether the feelings were there initially if they develop eventually? Why would the past feelings invalidate the present ones?
> 
> P.S. I don't believe in sex before marriage but I guess what you said and my subsequent question would still apply if you replace the word sex with the word relationship.


Yes, feelings can develop overtime between two people, but there needs to be some initial feelings to start beforehand for them to want to be together to start with.

My point being in regards to the thread, it's very difficult to want to have practice sex with someone if there are absolutely zero attraction/feelings, or even negative attraction/feelings.

But that is definitely not for certain, but just my take on this.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue Dino said:


> Yes, feelings can develop overtime between two people, but there needs to be some initial feelings to start beforehand for them to want to be together to start with.


If they predict the feelings will develop, then logically the relationship will *become* good *when* they develop. Isn't this something worth the wait?



Blue Dino said:


> My point being in regards to the thread, it's very difficult to want to have *practice sex* with someone if there are absolutely zero attraction/feelings


"Practice sex" without feelings *IS* bad, its called rape.

But we weren't talking about practice sex, we were talking about practice relatinship. In other words:

Step 1: Sexless relationship without feelings
Step 2: Feelings develop
Step 3: Sex, if we take a hypothetical that religion isn't the issue


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## Chris S W (Mar 5, 2017)

I recently thought about paying someone to go out with me and to pretend that they love me. It would be a way for me to practise without feeling guilty and very anxious. I wouldn't want to trick someone into thinking they might enjoy their time with me when that is highly unlikely. Would also allow me to feel some closeness and affection; I would pretend it's real.


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

causalset said:


> 2. If what you said about the safety of loveless relationship was true, then that would be a reason to have one. After all, it would be a safe place to go home to, and thats by far more important than love if the latter goes with an emotional rollercoaster.


How would you go about finding one?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I don't believe in it lol.


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## The Library of Emma (Mar 3, 2016)

causalset said:


> "Practice sex" without feelings *IS* bad, its called rape.


Sex without consent is rape. Sex without feelings sounds like a lackluster experience but I wouldn't jump to consider it "rape" if both parties actively agree to it.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Girl Without a Shadow said:


> Sex without consent is rape. Sex without feelings sounds like a lackluster experience but I wouldn't jump to consider it "rape" if both parties actively agree to it.


I was just using an exaggeration to make my point. It wouldn't be rape but that would still be highly unpleasant: the fact that its unpleasant is the reason why the concept of rape exists.

In any case, the point being is that nobody has to have a practice sex in order to have a practice relationship that might "potentially lead" to sex "after" it stops being a "practice" thing.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

andy0128 said:


> How would you go about finding one?


I can't, because nobody besides me agrees with this concept. But people aren't robots, they have reasons why they don't agree, and apparently, I don't follow those reasons, hence my posts to discuss why there is this disagreement.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Chris S W said:


> I recently thought about paying someone to go out with me and to pretend that they love me. It would be a way for me to practise without feeling guilty and very anxious. I wouldn't want to trick someone into thinking they might enjoy their time with me when that is highly unlikely. Would also allow me to feel some closeness and affection; I would pretend it's real.


You know something similar to that, thats not prostitution? Take an uber and hope its a female uber. When you fill out an evaluation, one of the things to check off is "great conversations", thats why half of the uber drivers (male or female) are trying to talk to me. I didn't realize this at first, I was like "wow somebody actually likes me", but after it happened a few times, then I realized what was going on.

In any case, it seems pointless, precisely because I am paying for it, plus its over once the uber ride is over.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

causalset said:


> No, I can't stand seeing happy couples and how much I miss out.


 You're not happy for them?



> If I truly couldn't stand myself, why is it I wanted some me-time back when I was in relationships?


 Because everyone needs some time to themselves just for their sanity. But if you're completely bored if you have to spend a week or a month doing your own thing, that means that you're fundamentally unhappy and you should spend some time and effort discovering yourself and figuring out what you can do to lead a fulfilling and satisfying life on your own if need be. Because that might be your future. If you had to plan for the worst right now, what would it be?

If you honestly see yourself being still single in 20 years, don't you think you should spend the time between now and then doing something you enjoy and is within your grasp? You can't change other people. You can't make people like you. You can't make a woman fall in love with you with sheer willpower.

So, what CAN you do? If someone asked you what you find relaxing and fulfilling (besides a date or sex or love), what would it be? If you honestly can't think of anything, maybe that's the problem.



> So clearly I get along with myself just fine. But I want a healthy balance of me-time and time together. And I can't get that balance if everyone avoids me.


 Why do you think they avoid you? If you were someone else, what is it about you that would put you off? I mean no disrespect. It's just that if you expect people to like you and you feel that they don't, you have to figure out what it is about you they don't like or you have no hope of changing things.



> Also, I don't get the concept of "fundamentally unhappy". Happiness or unhappiness is always about something. If my unhappiness is about the fact that I am single, it would go away once I am no longer single.


 Maybe and maybe not. What I mean is you're unhappy with yourself. Your basic nature (all your problems, your worries, your insecurities, your fears and so forth) are going to go with you into a relationship. Whatever it is that's making you unhappy by yourself is not going to just go away. You may think that it will but what if it doesn't? I suppose the only way to find out is to have everything your heart desires and see if it works out.

But again, you can't control other people. You have to fill this time up with something constructive. I don't think endless complaining is going to help but what do I know? I don't have a wife/GF either. But I am fine without one.


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## Chris S W (Mar 5, 2017)

causalset said:


> You know something similar to that, thats not prostitution? Take an uber and hope its a female uber. When you fill out an evaluation, one of the things to check off is "great conversations", thats why half of the uber drivers (male or female) are trying to talk to me. I didn't realize this at first, I was like "wow somebody actually likes me", but after it happened a few times, then I realized what was going on.
> 
> In any case, it seems pointless, precisely because I am paying for it, plus its over once the uber ride is over.


I've never used an uber before but dislike it when taxi drivers try to have a conversation with me.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Why do you think they avoid you?


Being unpopular, being older (I am 38 ), messy hair, wrinkly clothes, big backpack, Russian accent, monotone voice, loud voice, being blunt, not remembering names/faces, self-focused.



WillYouStopDave said:


> But if you're completely bored if you have to spend a week or a month doing your own thing, that means that you're fundamentally unhappy and you should spend some time and effort discovering yourself and figuring out what you can do to lead a fulfilling and satisfying life


Career in physics would make me happy. But again its outside of my control since I can't force journals to publish my papers.

As far as things within my control, traveling comes to mind -- although I can't do it too much due to financial considerations, but I can try a little bit.



WillYouStopDave said:


> If you honestly see yourself being still single in 20 years,


Well I had relationships before, it just took a few years to find each one.



WillYouStopDave said:


> I don't have a wife/GF either. But I am fine without one.


Have you had one before?


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Chris S W said:


> I've never used an uber before but dislike it when taxi drivers try to have a conversation with me.


Maybe its because taxi drivers are almost all male? Ubers are male majority too but they have a lot more females. But yeah, the fact that it is part of their job makes it pointless.

P.S. I am a bit surprised you said taxi drivers try to talk to you. Didn't happen to me more than a couple of times. I mean, in case of taxis you don't fill out that evaluation form that asks about their conversation, but with ubers you do.


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## Chris S W (Mar 5, 2017)

causalset said:


> Maybe its because taxi drivers are almost all male? Ubers are male majority too but they have a lot more females. But yeah, the fact that it is part of their job makes it pointless.
> 
> P.S. I am a bit surprised you said taxi drivers try to talk to you. Didn't happen to me more than a couple of times. I mean, in case of taxis you don't fill out that evaluation form that asks about their conversation, but with ubers you do.


Yeah, the vast majority have been male. But it doesn't seem to really matter for me, I just struggle with conversing and don't usually enjoy it with either gender.

They don't normally try to talk to me (thankfully), but some do.


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## Jisela (Apr 17, 2018)

hmm id say i have mixed feelings about this. Ig it depends on how the person feels, but for me, it's just best for the person to go up to their crush/lover and be real with them. Having a practice boyfriend/girlfriend tho isnt a bad idea, especially if youre someone who worries that theyll be too awkward or theyre just not ready


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## Ms kim (May 15, 2017)

causalset said:


> Being unpopular, being older (I am 38 ), messy hair, wrinkly clothes, big backpack, Russian accent, monotone voice, loud voice, being blunt, not remembering names/faces, self-focused.
> 
> I never used iron before. But someone mentioned to me its only 20 dollars, *so maybe I should go buy one.*


Oh wow


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

causalset said:


> Being unpopular


 "Being unpopular" is the same thing as "people don't like me". It is a problem but just figuring out that you're unpopular doesn't explain why.



> being older (I am 38 )


 Being older than who? Being older doesn't make people not like you unless you're trying to hang out with the wrong crowd. Being older AND not being established in life might make you unpopular with a certain segment of the older population. People flock. That's just how it is. People who have the same types of living conditions tend to flock together. If you're trying to hang out with older people who are already established you've got an uphill battle. First of all, they're not going to trust you because you're not like them. Then they're not going to trust you because they're going to assume you will take advantage of them if they let you in. None of that means you can't do it. It just means it's the path of most resistance.

You might need to start out with people who are more like you. People who are your age but are close to the bottom. But it's risky because many of those types are there for a reason. And often that reason is because they're criminals.



> messy hair, wrinkly clothes, big backpack, Russian accent, monotone voice


 Other than the accent and the voice, those are things you can control though, right? It's not hard to get a haircut. It's a little harder to get nice clothes and keep them looking presentable. But it isn't impossible. Thrift stores are often full of presentable clothes for cheap.

Not sure why a backpack would be an obstacle unless it's really that massive. Do you have to carry it always or something?



> loud voice, being blunt, not remembering names/faces, self-focused.


 This might be misconceptions. That is, maybe you're just not understanding what it is that causes these things to be problematic. Basically, you're saying that you're too honest and you're selfish. You wouldn't know it to hear people talk but everyone is selfish. It's just not socially acceptable to be too blatant about it. You have to learn to be polite in order to get along with people in a group setting. Make no mistake about it. Everyone you meet is selfish in their own way. Most of them are just channeling it all into things that are more socially acceptable.



> Have you had one before?


 Couple of times. To be honest, the last time it was unpleasant. She wasn't a bad person and I was somewhat attracted to her but I found the relationship thing to be confining. I'd wake up first thing in the morning and the phone would be ringing even though I had many discussions with her trying to put it in a nice way not to call me first thing in the morning. If I didn't answer she'd call back 30 seconds later and keep doing it. If that didn't work, she'd show up and would be looking in my window. That was back in the day when I had insomnia and it would take me forever to get to sleep. Then she'd be right there a couple hours later.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

WillYouStopDave said:


> "Being unpopular" is the same thing as "people don't like me". It is a problem but just figuring out that you're unpopular doesn't explain why.


"Being unpopular" means that somebody doesn't like me because *somebody else* doesn't like me.



WillYouStopDave said:


> Being older than who? Being older doesn't make people not like you unless you're trying to hang out with the wrong crowd. Being older AND not being established in life might make you unpopular with a certain segment of the older population.


I would be even more happy dating a woman in her 20-s rather than women my age. But then they won't like my age.



WillYouStopDave said:


> People flock. That's just how it is. People who have the same types of living conditions tend to flock together. If you're trying to hang out with older people who are already established you've got an uphill battle.


My situation is that I want to be a theoretical physics professor, but its not working out. There is nothing stoping me from getting other jobs I just don't want to, so I *chose* to go back for second ph.d. for a re-do (my first ph.d. was in physics, the second one in math).



WillYouStopDave said:


> You might need to start out with people who are more like you. People who are your age but are close to the bottom. But it's risky because many of those types are there for a reason. And often that reason is because they're criminals.


I don't want those kinds of people.


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## Eternal Solitude (Jun 11, 2017)

********MAJOR UPDATE *******

Do Not Try, Attempt Or Initiate This Type Of Relationship!

*











Guys I ****ed up royally. I should have known better, wait, I knew better and still went through with this evil machination. I am a horrible person. I can honestly say that this is the worst thing I've ever done.

I wasn't prepared for a relationship... but deep in my mind I wanted a sense of normality. I wanted to try the "forbidden fruit" not because of my heart desires but rather for my mental needs...

I brought a person into my life for my own selfish and egotistical reasons. I did what I always do to survive, I invented out a character and I played the role quite well. If I had an audience I'd probably probably win an Oscar for my method acting skills.

I created a hyperreality . Enhanced the good and took out the bad. No social anxiety, no traumas and more importantly I had a "past"...

Funny how whenever I tackle a challenge I resort to detaching from my self. My disassociative disorders take over.

*I lost my virginity 2 days ago. No pleasure and no pain. My mind , soul and heart weren't there. I couldn't climax, but faked it nonetheless.*

Now I feel dirty and sickened... I am tainted. Call it a sin , call it guilt doesn't matter I am riddled with disgust at myself.

I didn't believe that I'd be able to find someone more broken than me. But I did. Instead of truthfully nurturing and healing my partner's needs I exploited them for a dirty deed. Now this person seems to have fallen in love with me.

Good morning texts, goodnight texts long calls and plans for the future. I play along but I don't want to anymore... how do I get out?


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## Lohikaarme (Aug 28, 2013)

@Eternal Solitude 
Unfortunately, I don't see any other way out of this apart from inevitable heartache for both. I believe this is why some people ghost others even though everything seemed to be going fine. Looking someone in the eye as you are basically breaking their heart is extremely painful and I sort of understand why we are driven towards avoiding this sometimes. I personally wouldn't recommend ghosting because it doesn't give the other person a chance to say their piece and have some closure, and having a serious talk with them doesn't hurt as much as cutting them completely out of your life imo. Though some maybe would prefer not knowing the truth over knowing none of what they shared with you mattered so I can't really say what's the better option here, it's a tough call and you'll have to use your judgment on which of the two they are better equipped to handle. I would definitely suggest cutting this short as quickly as possible, however.

Quite a sticky situation overall. Best of luck to you, Eternal :hug


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## Mondo_Fernando (Jun 26, 2014)

Eternal Solitude said:


> *I lost my virginity 2 days ago. No pleasure and no pain. My mind , soul and heart weren't there. I couldn't climax, but faked it nonetheless.*


Women need the mental connection (be in love) to make that experience great. Obviously he had the mental connection or thought he rocked your world so to speak as you faked it.

I would suggest to be honest about your feelings, so he can move on. But maybe not face to face as some men can become angry / upset. Or some will cry, especially if they really like you at first sight.

But you know him best, so go with a way you think is best / safest for you.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

It's a 'practice scenario', so just don't contact the loser again. You have zero obligations.


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## birddookie (Jan 8, 2018)

Evo1114 said:


> It's a 'practice scenario', so just don't contact the loser again. You have zero obligations.


So he's a loser for liking her? Did she bring him into the relationship knowing this, or played him? No loser, just a mistake made. If Eternal Solitude didn't have social anxiety and wasn't trying to figure things out, and intentionally played the guy, she would be the loser.


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## Pongowaffle (Jul 23, 2015)

Lol this is like reading someone posting a thread if they should place their hand on a burning fire. They know it will hurt. It will burn the hand. But they want to feel the burn to feel excited. People will say -don't do it!- The person still does it. Updates us telling us they burn their hand indeed. -Ow! It hurts! My hand is burn! Don't do it! I should've listened!- 
The idea of this thread was a disaster to begin with lol. You put yourself in this situation. But if you do not really love the other person, it should not be hard to just get out. I feel sorry for the other person though. Got used by you .


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

@Eternal Solitude I would go against other people's advice and suggest that you think long and hard before you decide to break up with him. In particular, ask yourself the following question: do you feel that it is him who isn't a good match for you, or do you think that it is you who don't deserve to be in a relationship? If your answer is the former, then yes break up; if your answer is the latter, then please re-evaluate your view of yourself. We all deserve to have every aspect of our lives, and being in a relationship is one of them. If you ever get yourself to the point when you are finally ready for a relaionship, you might regret the fact that you broken up. It is true that perhaps it wasn't the best time to start a relationship, but since you already started it, maybe make the best out of it? If you break up, you will live the rest of your life with a regret that you lost your virginity to someone you broken up with. But if you stay together, work on your relationship, and make the best out of it, who knows maybe you will become happier than you ever imagined and will be glad you didn't break up. On the other hand its true that you shouldn't have any more sex until you are ready. So perhaps the best choice of action is to put the relationship on hold, be honest with him, and work together with him on those issues.


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## alicenaraa (Jun 11, 2018)

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## SwtSurrender (Nov 24, 2014)

Oh apparently it just hit me over the head, that's the entirety of my dating and relationships, it was never real, it felt real in my head, and it was all practice! Sure I was clingy and attached fast, sure they were hot at first, sure it felt real like we were meant for each other but it was just practice! Why stop when your practice keeps failing? I should just wipe myself and keep on going! Life must be just a series of practice and an illusion that anything is even for realzies!


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

Eternal tell the person that they were just a rebound relationship and you've gotten back together with your ex or you could just block the person. Everyone is doing these days. It just seems like the popular thing to do.


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