# Wellbutrin/Adderall combo just a waste of time?



## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm starting back on Wellbutrin XL in two weeks.I couldn't deal with the Parnate dietary/supplement restrictions at this point in time.I will be taking WEllbutrin XL 150mg,Klonopin 2-3mg,Lamictal 200mg.
My problem is I'm suffering from extreme fatigue and was hoping a psycho stimulant like Adderall might help.From what I've read on threads is that this would be a pointless and useless combination.From what I gather that is because Wellbutrin is a DA/NA reuptake inhibitor and adderall is stimulates the release of DA/NE.Therefore they it would negate the effects or Adderall?I've heard alot of positive feedback on Adderall.I desperatley need something as I work a very physical job and want to get back into cycling this summer.
I know wellbutrin is supposed to be stimulating in nature but hasn't helped me in that regard.I know Klonopin isn't the cause because I've used it in the past when I had abundant energy.I'm not sure if Lamical has fatigue as a major side effect.The doctor doesn't want to but me on an ssri because when he perscribed Lexapro,I went into hypomania.I was only on it for one week and he feels I'm extremley sensitive to seretonergic meds.
I like the lack of side effects from Wellbutrin and he is willing to use a stimulant with it.Would Adderall possibly help?If not would any of the other psychostimulants work(Vyvanse,Vivactil,any others?)


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Im assuming from previous threads that if wellbutrin didnt work than maybe you can get adderall xr if you have either depression resistance or adhd. Ive never tried parnate before and wellbutrin did nothing for me so Im going to ask for an maoi or adderall.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Yes, all of those stimulants could help, but adderall is typically the most activating (but of course theres always the crash, as with all of them). 

The actions of adderall and wellbutrin would actually lead to greatly increased levels of dopamine and norepinephrine. In other words these meds combined would greatly amplify these neurotransmitters, not counteract each others' actions. Both of the meds are typically good for helping to get people off their asses however they both often cause increased anxiety, aggression and sometimes depression in people. The only way you will know is if you give it a shot and go for it. 

Personally when on that combo I had crazy anxiety, panic, and depressive attacks but everyone's response will be unique.

PS: If that combo doesn't work it would be smart to try adderall alone as well as wellbutrin alone to see if either of them help when by themself as is the case with adderall for me.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

I'd also try it without Klonopin to better gauge the effect. Clearly you can't skip out on Lamictal (or I'm guessing that you can't, I know next to nothing about Lamictal), but if you're taking Klonopin with your various stimulants, there might be weird overlap effects. I certainly can tell a difference between just being on Ritalin/Concerta, and being on Ritalin/Concerta and Klonopin.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Oh, I had skipped over that you are also on klonopin and lamictal. In that case, you are definitely having some counteracting going on between your meds. Specifically lamictal and K vs Well and adderall. Who knows though, maybe all the action will balance your happy scale right where it should be. 
Lamictal and klonopin are both potential culprits for your excessive tiredness.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

KurtG85 said:


> Oh, I had skipped over that you are also on klonopin and lamictal. In that case, you are definitely having some counteracting going on between your meds. Specifically lamictal and K vs Well and adderall. Who knows though, maybe all the action will balance your happy scale right where it should be.
> Lamictal and klonopin are both potential culprits for your excessive tiredness.


I've used klonopin for years and it's never caused fatigue.I am wondering if Lamictal could be the problem.I suppose the only way to find out is to cut back on the Lamictal and find out if the fatigue decreases.I wouid like to try the Wellbutrin/Adderall combo but if the anxiety goes through the roof it defeats the purpose of getting my SAD under countrol.Klonopin would be the only drug on board working on GABA.If I could only get the right balance of neurotransmitters under control with the meds.No more depression,anxiey,and SAD would be wondreful.The possible combination effective medications is so varied.I feel like I don't have years find the answer.I've been dealing with these disorders for 21 years.!!!:|


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Yah. I think most everybody feels that way. Just be thankful we live in an age where we even have these options available. I'm also thankful I discovered meds, by accident, before I offed myself, or someone else at a very young age. 

Lamictal probably is the culprit but if it does help you a lot I would try adding meds on to see if you can't alleviate the tiredness without stopping lamictal. Provigil is a wakefull-ness promoting agent, although it put me to sleep, and is expensive as hell if you live in the US.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

KurtG85 said:


> Yah. I think most everybody feels that way. Just be thankful we live in an age where we even have these options available. I'm also thankful I discovered meds, by accident, before I offed myself, or someone else at a very young age.
> 
> Lamictal probably is the culprit but if it does help you a lot I would try adding meds on to see if you can't alleviate the tiredness without stopping lamictal. Provigil is a wakefull-ness promoting agent, although it put me to sleep, and is expensive as hell if you live in the US.


Any stmulants that may be cheaper(generic).I'm sure Adderall is expensive.I don/t know about Vyvanse or others.I did go cycling today.Thats one of the best medicines for me.Spinning out in nature.Riding with a friend.Shooting the s*** .Watching the the cities scenery pass by and enjoying nature.What great stress reliever.I believe the answer is a combination of diet/supplements,exercise and medication/psychotherpy.Work on all aspects of wellbeing and balancing the body.
Back to meds.Wellbutrin and psychostimulant.Does anyone have any experience with it and from a physiology aspect how would it effect brainchemistry in theory?What medications could be used to target GABA besides Klonopin/benzos?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

metamorphosis said:


> Any stmulants that may be cheaper(generic)


dextroamphetamine


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Any of the stimulants will be cheaper than provigil as far as I know. 

As I mentioned, combining wellbutrin and a stimulant like adderall will mainly exponentially increase the levels of dopamine and norepinephrene. 

Another med which raises gaba levels is neurontin. A supplement which raises GABA levels is Picamilon.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Pregabalin (Lyrica) is another drug which has a similar mechanism of action to Neurontin, but is more potent.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> Pregabalin (Lyrica) is another drug which has a similar mechanism of action to Neurontin, but is more potent.


I have lyrica 50mg .I'll have to look up dose amounts for anxiety.Perahaps I could use that to lower my Klonopin uasge.I took about 6mg when I stayed at my girlfriends last night.A girl I've known for about 20 yrs and here I am trippiling my Klon. dose just to feel comfortable around her!:no.Then it's almost like my basic personality is so affected that I start thinking,talking and reacting in ways that really aren't part of my basic character.It's almost like being drunk but without the blackouts,arguments,distortions etc.I wake up with the questions of how much last night was fundamentally me and how much was the just the Klon.?I don't like the feeling of losing my basic personality under the influence of drugs.I did that for years with MDMA,shrooms,alcohol etc.
Thats why I'm looking for that missing piece of GABA effective drugs with minimual benzo use.I was on gabapentin before and it worked great for a few months but then semmed to peeter out even at 2700mg.Illusion you did mention dextroamphetamine as a stimulnt.Is that avilable as perscription in the US and what are the pro's and cons compared to Adderall??


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Have you considered Modafinil for fatique?


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

KurtG85 said:


> As I mentioned, combining wellbutrin and a stimulant like adderall will mainly exponentially increase the levels of dopamine and norepinephrene.


This was also my case. My story is.

I was taking a moderate dose of Zoloft another time but a small amount this time just to have the benefits of being able to drink and not get tired or hungover. 50mg. I have many ADHD symptoms so I went and got Adderall from the Doc. It was new to me so my doses were 10mg in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. The combination was AWESOME. The adderall totally took away the lazy blah part of being on an SSRI, and the SSRI took away the crash and the over-aware consciousness feeling that would normally be experienced on the Adderall.

Now.. A week later I started adding Wellbutrin to it. Only 100mg. Keep in mind I was also prescribed 300mg Wellbutrin in the past.

This triple combo was the best thing I've ever been on my life. The Zoloft plus Adderall was totally awesome in everyway and when I added the Wellbutrin it took that feeling to a completely higher and more advanced platform. With the three meds working together I became super outgoing, super fun, super focused, super organized, super carefree, super chill, super confident, SUPER CREATIVE, extremely intelligent, was able to fly threw a whole 400 page book in one night! Keep in mind without drugs I can't even read a couple pages of a book without getting completely sidetracked in my mind with constant other thoughts and before I know it I would go threw 10 more pages and then realize not a single freakin work I read on the last 8 sunk in. I became SUPER TALKATIVE. I would seriously talk nonstop. With the Adderall alone all it would do is make me calm and nervous and quiet and introverted, and very focused of course. Pushing the triple transmitters up all at once was freakin amazing man!! Seriously.

Oh and keep in mind this was all in a completely NON-Manic way. It was a super me but a balanced me that was in total control. It was great.

So I think even a wellbutrin/adderall combo would definitely enhance each other greatly as they did for me. If you get edgy or anxiety maybe that's where you might need some serotonin to balance it. Because Wellbutrin by itself has had that effect on me in the past.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Medline said:


> Have you considered Modafinil for fatique?


Nope,thats the issue.I need your guys/girls knowledge and advice.Theres Adderall,dextroamphetamine,Vivactil,Modafrinal,Vyvanse and what seems like so many others that could help battle fatigue.I know of these are in different drug classifications but I know so little about them and how each works.Thier pros and cons and which could better augment Wellbutrin.I'm not trying to be apathetic about researching these types of meds but my time gets limited.It would take me hours to search different sites and even more so to fully digest the text and infoI have to do so very slowly.Thats why I appreciate the knowledgeable and feedback from you guys.It helps when I've got a doctors appt in @ 10 days.
Maybe if anyone can find the time to give me a brief synopsis on these meds(brief summary of how they work,pros and cons of each,and which you think might best augment Wellbutrin).Any info. on this would be very helpful as right now they(psychostimulants,stimulants) are all just a cluster f*** in my brain.
Thanks!


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

beaches09 said:


> This was also my case. My story is.
> 
> I was taking a moderate dose of Zoloft at one time a small amount just to have the benefits of being able to drink and not get tired or hungover. 50mg. I have many ADHD symptoms so I went and got Adderall from the Doc. It was new to me so my doses were 10mg in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. The combination was AWESOME. The adderall totally took away the lazy blah part of being on an SSRI, and the SSRI took away the crash that would normally be experienced on the Adderall.
> 
> ...


 How did you keep the anxiety under control with both Adderall and Wellbutrin?The seretonergic affects of Zoloft was enough or did you have to add a benzo or another GABA affecting drug for your GAD?


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

If you want to loose the fatigue with the least side effects, then go for Modafinil. Or try it at least.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> This was also my case. My story is.


Taking Wellbutrin with Adderall should eliminate most (if not all) of the effects from Adderall, at least in theory. Adderall is thought to work by reversing the dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline transporters, but reuptake inhibitors prevent this from happening. This is why adding reboxetine to MAOIs can prevent the tyramine reaction, and probably why taking MDMA while on an SSRI doesn't do much.

With the combo you are probably getting effects just from Wellbutrin. The reason you aren't experiencing a crash is (probably) because there is no Adderall to deplete monoamines, and Wellbutrin has a long half-life.

You might want to just pick one of the two.


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

I recommend (Dexedrine and wellbutrin) over Adderall and Wellbutrin. Dexedrine doesn't make you quite as jittery as adderall. It causes a release of more dopamine and less NE.


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## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

I was on generic wellbutrin and adderall. generic wellbutrin causes HORRIBLE bad breath!


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Dextroamphetamine is more selective to dopamine, but will still suffer from the same interaction I posted about and be a waste of drugs.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Taking Wellbutrin with Adderall should eliminate most (if not all) of the effects from Adderall, at least in theory. Adderall is thought to work by reversing the dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline transporters, but reuptake inhibitors prevent this from happening. This is why adding reboxetine to MAOIs can prevent the tyramine reaction, and probably why taking MDMA while on an SSRI doesn't do much.
> 
> With the combo you are probably getting effects just from Wellbutrin. The reason you aren't experiencing a crash is (probably) because there is no Adderall to deplete monoamines, and Wellbutrin has a long half-life.
> 
> You might want to just pick one of the two.


I hear ya. I know you guys know your stuff  But for me though, it wasn't that way. I've been on each of the drugs by themselves at separate times, and also each of them paired with each other at separate times. Wellbutrin by itself and even paired with an SSRI was very good but not comparable to the way I felt when I added Adderall to the mix.

A good combo for me was Wellbutrin/Zoloft in high doses and it was incredible. A different time trying that combo and then lowering the doses to less than half and adding the Adderall blew the double combo away. Apart from just enhancing all the positive effects from the other meds, it even felt euphoric.

I could tell when the Adderall would wear off too because I would just settle down. Like you say instead of the crash it was all just very smooth and my super me would become a more relaxed and chilled me. When I'd skip a few days or weeks of Adderall I'd stay awesome and good, and then take some more Adderall again and I'd be SUPER ME again lmfao. Adderall never had this effect by itself whatsoever. None of the drugs had this effect by themselves.

I thought the job of the Amphetamine was to stimulate the release of the transmitters. So by adding a reuptake inhibitor you are getting the release and also more actively keeping them around in the synapse. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Metamorphosis for me combining an SSRI like Zoloft took care of the related anxiety and edgyness and also created a nice balanced smooth feeling. And what happened was having the three transmitters increased all together just made me feel so good, alive, and confident, that any kind of anxiety was completely non-existent. But you can always use a benzo or whatever it takes.

I personally like to use an SSRI as a base it creates that "at home, safe, psyche protection feeling" and then add the other things from there to create the right stimulating and activating effect.

Good call on Dexedrine too, I haven't tried it but I hear it's goal is more mentally stimulating where as Adderall also stimulates your body and can cause anxiety.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

beaches09 said:


> I thought the job of the Amphetamine was to stimulate the release of the transmitters. So by adding a reuptake inhibitor you are getting the release and also more actively keeping them around in the synapse. Correct me if I'm wrong.


That's right, but amphetamine does this by reversing the way the monoamine transporter operates. Reuptake inhibitors prevent this transporter from working, so more of the neurotransmitter remains in the synapse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reuptake_both.png

As the transporter is relatively inactive with reuptake inhibitors, I'd assume it would block the release of neurotransmitters. It's a bit like when a bus breaks down, nobody can move between bus stations so they accumulate. Well sort of...

I don't entirely understand amphetamine's pharmacology though, so I'm sure I've overlooked something which is giving you effects. It could be that you are blocking amphetamine's release of DA/NA, but amphetamine is also a reuptake inhibitor so it is probably combining with bupropion there.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

metamorphosis said:


> Any stmulants that may be cheaper(generic).


I'm on generic methylphenidate (Ritalin) prn.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

KurtG85 said:


> Any of the stimulants will be cheaper than provigil as far as I know.


It's not hard to beat the price of Provigil when it goes for at least $10 per pill. And it sure doesn't do much for all that money. I have some samples and I took one 10 hours ago and I haven't been feeling all that stimulated. If I actually had to pay $10 for a pill, I think anger is the only form of stimulation I'd feel.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

IllusionalFate said:


> Pregabalin (Lyrica) is another drug which has a similar mechanism of action to Neurontin, but is more potent.


Given that Neurontin is a sugar pill to me, would that make Pregabalin a really strong sugar pill?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

KurtG85 said:


> The actions of adderall and wellbutrin would actually lead to greatly increased levels of dopamine and norepinephrine. In other words these meds combined would greatly amplify these neurotransmitters, not counteract each others' actions.


That's what my psychiatrist thinks too. Trying Wellbutrin is hoop I have to jump through to get at the C-II goodies, instead of the crap. He thought that if Wellbutrin worked that would reduce the need for a real stimulant.

I personally don't find Wellbutrin stimulating as evidence by the fact that I can take 450 mg and then sleep, which is hardly what I'd call stimulating.


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

^ You need some dexedrine  If you want even more physical stimulation, then adderall. 

From what I hear Desoxyn (methamphetamine) is the best stimulant in terms of feeling the best while being able to focus, and not feel jittery at all. But, most doctors won't prescribe it. Plus, it costs a **** load.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

metamorphosis said:


> I have lyrica 50mg .I'll have to look up dose amounts for anxiety.


50mg isn't going to do ****. 300-500mg doses are supposed to be good for anxiolysis, and 600-900mg may produce pro-social effects -- something you won't get from benzos at any dose.



> Illusion you did mention dextroamphetamine as a stimulnt.Is that avilable as perscription in the US and what are the pro's and cons compared to Adderall??


Yes, it is Schedule II in the US. Dextroamphetamine produces primarily CNS stimulation and much less PNS effects, so it will be much smoother than Adderall. I'd tell you more but no matter what I do I can't get a psychostimulant Rx from my pdoc (he likes anti-psychotics too much to be prescribing stuff like that :um).

Dextromethamphetamine (Desoxyn) has the least peripheral NS effects but that may be difficult to acquire.



euphoria said:


> That's right, but amphetamine does this by reversing the way the monoamine transporter operates. Reuptake inhibitors prevent this transporter from working, so more of the neurotransmitter remains in the synapse:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reuptake_both.png
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this, I learned a lot. Could you clarify what you mean by "Adderall is thought to work by reversing the dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline transporters" though? I don't quite understand how neurotransmitter transporters can be reversed.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> Thanks for posting this, I learned a lot. Could you clarify what you mean by "Adderall is thought to work by reversing the dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline transporters" though? I don't quite understand how neurotransmitter transporters can be reversed.


I'm not entirely sure how it does it, but it probably causes them to bring dopamine into the synapse rather than remove it. It has a few other mechanisms of action too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Major_neurobiological_mechanisms


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## finster (Jul 5, 2007)

I take 150mg of generic Wellbutrin (prescribed by PDOC) along with caffeine(coffee) and 75mg of ephedrine (self prescribed for energy and weight loss). Since I suffer from major anxiety issues already and seem to experience the "activating" part of Wellbutrin you can imagine the hyper state I go into. All three of these drugs seem to combine to give me tons of energy so I can get things done but I do suffer from the increased agitation and anxiety from them.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I'm not entirely sure how it does it, but it probably causes them to bring dopamine into the synapse rather than remove it. It has a few other mechanisms of action too.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Major_neurobiological_mechanisms


Wow, I have got to say that after reading through that whole wiki page I find it quite disturbing to see how extremely accurately it describes the many psychological and physical effects I experience from adderall (ex: "The pills accelerate the brain's processes to the degree that ideas flow faster than the ability to communicate them by speech"; I have refrained this comment for years about how adderall effects me). In a sense it makes me feel like a junky whose brain has been hi-jacked by a drug. Then again my brain is filled with little more than wallowing depression and pleasure-less, cluttered despair off of adderall to begin with. I feel quite strongly I would have offed myself by now if it weren't for the ways it helps me so I really don't feel all that guilty.

Pretty much all the positive, as well as negative, effects I feel from adderall are creepily well documented in that article. I wonder why I don't experience near as many mood boosting effects from dextroamphetamine as I do compared to amphetamine salts (adderall)?


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

The communication on this thread has been very helpful and informative.I am trying to narrow down the best of these drugs(psychostimulants) that will fight my fatigue and run the most smoothley with Wellbutrin.The one that will not shoot my anxiety,agitation and wallet through the roof.It seems like the best choices are Dexedrine,dextroamphetamine,or generic Adderall.I know that adding a stimulant would seem to compound the anxiety issue.But which would complement the Wellbutrin XL(150)mg without so many downsides?:sus
Doctor did mention ritalin but it seems like one of the others would be more effective!I am trying to sort this out witin the coming week.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

metamorphosis said:


> The communication on this thread has been very helpful and informative.I am trying to narrow down the best of these drugs(psychostimulants) that will fight my fatigue and run the most smoothley with Wellbutrin.The one that will not shoot my anxiety,agitation and wallet through the roof.It seems like the best choices are Dexedrine,dextroamphetamine,or generic Adderall.I know that adding a stimulant would seem to compound the anxiety issue.But which would complement the Wellbutrin XL(150)mg without so many downsides?:sus
> Doctor did mention ritalin but it seems like one of the others would be more effective!I am trying to sort this out witin the coming week.


Well first off you have to be sure you understand rule number one which is that you will never know how well or horrible a med works for you until you try it. Typically ritalin (concerta) and dexedrine do not raise anxiety as much as adderall but this is different for everyone. In my personal experience if any of the stimulants do send your anxiety through the roof it still wont compare to how much wellbutrin will increase your anxiety.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> That's what my psychiatrist thinks too. Trying Wellbutrin is hoop I have to jump through to get at the C-II goodies, instead of the crap. He thought that if Wellbutrin worked that would reduce the need for a real stimulant.
> 
> I personally don't find Wellbutrin stimulating as evidence by the fact that I can take 450 mg and then sleep, which is hardly what I'd call stimulating.


Am I correct in understanding you are on a good amount of benzos everyday? Personally when I'm on just 1 mg of ativan I can fall asleep at the drop of a hat as well (even while on an amphetamine like adderall) and no meds seem to have much of an effect anyway because its like all that gaba counteracts any pleasurable, social boosting effects I might feel from my other meds. The ativan does get rid of a lot of my anxiety but at the expense of making me feel really, really, empty and flat (much, much, much more flat than the emotional blunting effects of an SSRI). I'm not pretending to know the best way to go about your treatment but I would suggest that maybe you give it a shot to come off your benzos completely and see how you do with just a stimulant like adderall; sort of the complete reversal of neurochemical action in your brain. You might find surprising benefits to the switch and at the very least you'll gain a ton of perspective on how those kinds of changes in your brain chemistry effects your psyche. Again, I only suggest this because when I'm on a benzo I might as well just not be on any other meds at all because I feel like benzos just numb everything. In other words, they may block your ability to clearly judge whether stimulants can help you at all.

Do us a favor and keep us updated on what kinds of effects you are feeling from these new meds you have been trying Ultrashy. I know I'm interested to hear. Try and keep positive. I think you will be surprised at the positive effects of at least one of the stimulants.


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## bocapcman (May 9, 2010)

I am on 150mg of welbutrin xr and 30mg of adderall xr and I feel terrific. I am 44 years old and I have a younger wife and a one year old daughter. I feel sharp, energetic and very happy. It's a great combination. If anyone wishes to ask me any questions, I will bw happy to reply.


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## pascal (Nov 15, 2008)

This is a interesting post. I never considered mixing wellbutrin with amphetamine. I would have tough it would raise anxiety to unbearable level for anybody having a predisposition to it.

But it get me curiuos. I have been trying lot of meds for my lifelong battle agianst SA and depresion and wellbutrin is one of the few med I somewhat respond to. I have tried mixing it with zoloft (horrible headache), prozak (somewhat helpful) and cymbalta (that was a homerun, but it made me agressive and my BP when through the roof).

I am not reacting to well to stimulant however. Actually I do, but only for a day. I tryied vyvanse and focalin and got pretty much the same results. The first day is awsome. I am calm, confident and energitic. Pretty much everything I want to be. But by the second day, all the positive effect wear down and I start getting really anxious. By the third day, not only is my anxiety through the roof, but on top of that I feel physically exhausted. By the time I stop the medication, it take me a few days just to recover from the experience. Have any of you guys experienced something similar?

Any input would be greatly appreciated as I am still on the quest to find a solution to my lifelog struggle with anxiety and depression. I am guessing the wellbutrin will be part of the special mix but I am not sure what I should try next. Note I did try wellbutrin with remeron as well and it was a disaster. I really can't stand remeron.

Any input or question are welcomed.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm on it also. It works ok. Then again I got Barr brand adderall.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Wellbutrin is a fairly weak DA reuptake inhibitor, so I doubt that it would interfere with amphetamines release of DA to any great extent. However wellbutrin may interfere with the release of NE.


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## pantatheos (Dec 9, 2011)

euphoria said:


> Taking Wellbutrin with Adderall should eliminate most (if not all) of the effects from Adderall, at least in theory. Adderall is thought to work by reversing the dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline transporters, but reuptake inhibitors prevent this from happening. This is why adding reboxetine to MAOIs can prevent the tyramine reaction, and probably why taking MDMA while on an SSRI doesn't do much.
> 
> With the combo you are probably getting effects just from Wellbutrin. The reason you aren't experiencing a crash is (probably) because there is no Adderall to deplete monoamines, and Wellbutrin has a long half-life.
> 
> You might want to just pick one of the two.


D-amphetamine also blocks DAT and NET, or is this insignificant as far as a comparison with bupropion is concerned? I think I saw a rather large difference of D-AMPH's selectivity for VMATs vs. the membrane transporters (Ki somewhere between 1:10 to 1:20 for both NE and DA)...

The interference of Wellbutrin with Adderall's reversing monoamine transport and causing efflux of neurotransmitters back into the synapse remains unclear to me. Did you suggest that Wellbutrin competitively inhibits the reuptake transport proteins? because that would lead me to think, "well more Adderall would diffuse into the cell to hijack VMATs rather than bind with DAT and NET which are already occupied by bupropion.

From my self-experiments I have found that bupropion augments methylphenidate but negates both Adderall and Dexedrine dose-proportionately. Combining bupropion with these two different classes of stimulants has interested me for some time. So for me at least, the combination of two reuptake blockers synergized and elicited a stronger response than either alone; but bupropion at 50, 100, and 150 mg dose-proportionately attenuated my response to amphetamine.

Thanks for your helpful insights, euphoria


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

First, amphetamine is a competitive inhibitor of any DA or NE activity. Both amp (dex) and Wellbutrin effect NE. The difference is that amps potency and strong pharmakinetics, simply nullify any of wellbutrin's effects. It becomes a nonexistent issue. Amp. works on both NE and DA in the same way. It blocks norepinephrine from entering the neuron by binding to the neurons substrate.Thus, stopping the natural transmission of these NT's completely. I use instant release dex. and not spansules,which work much slower and with variance in their mechanisms. The instant release basically effects the neurons pretty quickly and with full force. It attaches itself (hijacks) the NET (norepinephrine transporters). The effect is a displacement of the incoming norepinephrine.The neurotransmitter is not where it's supposed to attach on the receptor. This action by amp. reverses the normal NET action. The NE now gets dumped off in the synaptic vesticule areas at the front of the cell and there becomes a large buildup of NE. When the NE overflow in the presynaptic area becomes to great. A new channel opens to release the neurotransmitters into the synapse. Now it's a two fold phrmacology issue with the workings of the neuron. The amphetamines bind on the neurons vesticle creates more problems for neuronal functioning.It blocks any NE from entering that area. The dysfunction of the transporters (NET) causes it to start releasing more NE into the synapse. Creating an even larger flood of active norepinephrine neurotransmitters. 

Again, Amphetamine is a competitive inhibitor of any DA activity also. Again it wipes out any of wellbutrin's weak effect on DA. It again attaches to the neurons substrate site. This gives it a stronger action on DAT. Basically hijacking any antidepressant action at the dopamine receptor sites. By acting on both the blockage of DA into the neuron and binding to DAT (dopamine transporters), and also as an aggresive inhibitor. It creates a displacing of DA because the natural function of DA uptake is not functioning correctly. Just as the NE couldn't find the right binding site on it's NET. The same holds true for the dopamine. The DAT starts to release the neurotransmitters into the synapse. The displacement of dopamine means it ends up being "dropped off" 
in the frontal region of the cell Again in the presynaptic vesticules awaiting a buildup and massive release of active dopamine into the synapse. There is also a reversal of DAT firing. Dopamine is now being pumped back into the synapse instead of into the cell. Therefore, there becomes even more active dopamine. The variance in amount will depend on the amp dose. Amp basically takes over and blocks any considerable DA re-uptake receptors.Pure pharmaceutical grade ampetamine is so strong and pure in its pharmacology. It's not even fathomable to consider that Wellbutrin's antagonistic effect could even register an influence to the aggressive,competitive antagonistic structure and binding actions of amphetamine in any way.

I am driving this point home because there has been alot of discussion on the thread about what influence the two meds. might have on each other. It's really a no brainer when you really look at it. 
The main points: A.) The fact that pharmaceutical grade amphetamine is not just a strong antagonist but a competitive inhibitor That fact changes the whole ballgame. It's not simply a strong antagonist. It basically carries NE or DA to the synaptic dump off points. My point being that DAT nor NET nor the vescular transmitters (VMATS) nor the monomine transporters. And any other cool sounding DA transporter that someone can come up with, they are all rendered nonfunctional or completely crossed up. This to the point that the DAT and NET are now pumping the NTs and DAs right back into the synapse. This brings up point 2). By finding and binding to the neurons deep substrate, it virtually renders any anti-depressant (Wellbutrin, SNRI's) non-functional at the NE and DA receptor sites. This is essentially a two pronged attack that takes out the transporters and, last time, any Anti-depressant activity.

Think of driver/army ants and how they will take over a house completely control it and clean it out. That is how powerful amp. can be. It basically starts running the natural DAT and NET transports completely. Inhibits DA at the VMAT's ( the vescular transporters), which are specifically targeted by amphetamines.

To illustrate the point of the complete binding and control of amp. on the neurons and the cells is to compare it's actions to cocaine. Cocaine only targets the monoamine transporters. That is it and cocaine is not a weak drug! It doesn't even compare to the breadth and scope of dexedrine pharmalogical dynamics. Amphetamines impact on the neurons and NT's with all of the possible receiving receptor sites either bound or completley disrupted to the point of misfiring along with the disabling of any DA transporter. It leaves it in a class by itself as far as pure impact on the NTs. Even though DA and NE are the main transmitters affected, with a small affinity to SERT. Dexedrine releases 5HT at about 1/4th in comparison to DA and NE. The dangerously huge impact it can make on those 2 neurotransmitters Makes the amphetamine class one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful class of psyhchotropics known today. They can be very beneficial but they need to be used with great caution. For all of their therapeutic properties. The tolerance can shot up very, very fast. And they are extremely addictive. Causing terrible physiological withdrawl with addicts.

A few more things. The drug methylphenidate has a stronger affinity to NET because of it's overall equality of d and l isomers. The dominant d isomer of dextroamphetamine has more potent effects on dopamine transporters. (DAT). Many amphetamine abusers will choose the d isomer amp (dex) over the dl amps., because there will be more activity of the "feel good" neurotransmitter, dopamine. It's usually their first choice of amp to use. The overall dl amps stronger affinity to the stimulating the more stimulating norepinephrine can cause more undesirable side effects (bigger potential for stimulation to varying degrees of danger in large doses physiologically) and is weaker at handling DA.because of that strong d isomer of a dextroamphetamine. Usually that leaves adderall as the second choice.

When going over the phramacalogical workings of the amphetamine class. It is fascinating, intimidating, and down right scary to fully realize it's power on the brain and mind. The information posted above is an accurate and hopefully easy to understand description of what a decent to large size therapeutic dose(60mg) or even larger recreational doses of the straight , non-spansuled amp. 

Amp. at lower doses or in spansules, do not create that mess. 5-10 mgs of dex shouldn't come close to the extremes. This is a very potent class of drugs. Each individual will have to gauge where they are at and where they want to go!!! One last thing. amphetamines are extremely addictive and tolerance can build at a very rapid pace. There are other stimulants that don't carry the wallop and possible neurotoxicity of the amphetamine class.


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