# Game of Thrones



## Tristram (Feb 9, 2008)

I searched for existing threads and couldn't find a single one so...

It's the season finale tonight and I for one can't wait to torrent that sh** and see what happens. I just started watching the season earlier this week and was totally hooked by the second episode. Very-well written show with interesting characters, decent dialogue and a good mix of comedy and tragedy...works for me. It's very rare to see this sort of material adapted to television with such ridiculously high production values.

Any fans?


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

aww, I thought the Game of Thrones had another week or two before the season was over. I'm going to have to read the books to find out what happens next. 

Initially, it was a little confusing trying to keep up with so many characters, remembering everyone's name and their house or families. I'm kind of getting the hang of it now. 

You might want to check out The Killing (a remake of a Danish show), which is also ending tonight. You'll want to watch it from the beginning since it's told in a serialized story like Game of Thrones.

True Blood's new season is starting soon. I can't wait to see it even though I've already read the book.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

I only saw a few episodes, I'm delaying the rest until I finish the book.

I only started watching it because I'm a fan of Sean Bean and Peter Dinklage, I was very pleasantly surprised!


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## Tristram (Feb 9, 2008)

The books have been on my radar for a few years now, but I haven't got around to reading them. I think it's better this way, because the show would have lost a lot of its impact if I'd known what happens. On the other hand, knowing who's who would have made the first couple of episodes a lot less confusing to watch, since exposition is a continuous process here. Bits of information here and there and sometimes you just don't know what the hell is going on. But I don't like being spoon fed anyway.


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

Underwhelming last episode.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

I haven't seen a single episode or trailer or anything. I'm reading the books (halfway through the first) and hate it when the actor's face takes over what my imagination comes up with. Like Eddard Stark? Did not picture Sean Beam.


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## southward (Jul 25, 2008)

I've been praising the books for years. For those who you who do decide to read them be prepared to wait years in between books. I haven't seen the show though because I don't have cable...


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

Yes, four books in nine years is slow. But the books are long so I understand why it might take that much time for the author! I'll read the four and then watch.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

The books are great. One of the best fantasy series I've read, and one of the few that non-fantasy fans should read. And actually written for adults, and I don't just say that because of all the sex and violence.

Having said that, nothing happened in the last book and he's taking his sweet *** time writing the next one. It had better not suck.


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## southward (Jul 25, 2008)

seafolly said:


> Yes, four books in nine years is slow. But the books are long so I understand why it might take that much time for the author! I'll read the four and then watch.


The first book was published in 1996. Maybe with the show being such a huge hit he'll get some motivation. I'm not saying he needs to stop ****ing around. I'm just warning people of the wait time.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

Tristram said:


> The books have been on my radar for a few years now, but I haven't got around to reading them. I think it's better this way, because the show would have lost a lot of its impact if I'd known what happens. On the other hand, knowing who's who would have made the first couple of episodes a lot less confusing to watch, since exposition is a continuous process here. Bits of information here and there and sometimes you just don't know what the hell is going on. But I don't like being spoon fed anyway.


When I read the beginning of the first book before the show aired, I found it to be somewhat confusing. There were so many characters, names of places I knew nothing about, etc. Now that I've seen the first season and know the names of the characters and locations better, the books seem like they'd be much easier to comprehend and enjoy.

I like to read the books and watch the show. It's interesting to see the changes that are made for the TV show. From what I hear, the TV version is following the books pretty closely; although, there have been a couple odd changes that were made.


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## mooncake (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm looking forward to watching the series as I'm about halfway through the first book now and enjoying it. It's nice to get stuck into a book again where you're itching to read on.

I hate, though, that you have to either read the books first and have the storyline spoiled, or watch first and have the book's characters already visualised in your mind from seeing the actors on screen. I went with the books first (or the first one, anyway... don't know if I'd ever get around to watching the series if I waited for the final book to be finished!), as I never really feel like picking them up after I've already seen what happens, but it'll still be interesting to see what they've done with the TV series. Sounds like it isn't too bad!


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## Think_For_Yourself (Dec 7, 2010)

Lol, I thought this was a video game. I am so out of the loop.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Watched the pilot last night, its just a soft porn version of Lord of the Rings.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

LALoner said:


> Watched the pilot last night, its just a soft porn version of Lord of the Rings.


Lol, there's less nudity as you go on with the show. (if that's what you meant). While Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings are both examples of epic fantasy, I didn't find them to be much alike at all. You need to give it a few more episodes! :b


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

I think the two are similar in that they both have a rather lengthy "cast" of characters. There are dragons and swords and kings and wars. :b However, Martin did not invent his own language so I give him points for less obsessed. Other than that, overlooking the obvious fact that they're the same genre, there isn't much in common. 

I finished the first book, this thread reminded me to find the second.  Does anyone know if the first season of the show just covers the first book? Or does it even cover all of it? I can't imagine how they could but...


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

leave me alone said:


> Underwhelming last episode.


so so so true. i thought i was going to be flipping around like a fish out of water on the floor when the intro was playing but i was let down :|


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Watched the second ep, consistent with the first one all sex is performed canine style. Do they do this through the whole season?


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## Rosedubh (Jul 11, 2009)

There is lots of sex, but the story gets better and better. Keep watching!!


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

I started reading the first book after watching the first episode of the TV series, and finished it by the time I was at episode 3, am now a few pages off finishing book three: part two and am hoping to finish book four before my pre-ordered edition of book 5 arrives when it is released in a couple of weeks.

I think it's awesome as high fantasy goes and anyone who enjoyed the TV series should read the books, since they are way better, though I'm not saying the HBO series was bad.


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

seafolly said:


> I finished the first book, this thread reminded me to find the second.  Does anyone know if the first season of the show just covers the first book? Or does it even cover all of it? I can't imagine how they could but...


First season covers only the first book.


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## The Professor (Jul 31, 2011)

I love this show!


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## xTKsaucex (Jun 23, 2010)

Started watching it recently, anything with Sean Bean in is an automatic view in my books. He's a class actor.


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## eppe (Apr 14, 2011)

anyone seen the season 2 finale?


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## alternate (May 2, 2012)

Just watched season 2 finale yesterday... So much is happening, can't wait till season 3.

I've bought all the books so I can get up to speed, 2/3 way through book one.

To anyone comparing this to lord of the rings, LOTR is boring and not a flea on the back of the Direwolf that is game if thrones. I want a Direwolf!


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## MyJoy (Dec 9, 2011)

Game of Thrones is the best!


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## Com1 (May 27, 2012)

I saw the first series last year on TV. Since then I've read every book plus the Tales of Dunk and Egg (shorter series let in Westoros). ****'s the business, though the TV show is making annoying changes.


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## Xtraneous (Oct 18, 2011)

**** just got real


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

I _loved_ the shot at the end of the Other/White Walker. I really didn't know what it was going to look like, so I felt like I really got the force of how terrifying it was. If I was Sam I think I'd scream like a little girl and run away blindly. That scene was actually at the beginning of book three, but it was well placed at the end of season 2, so it really had an OMG ending like season 1.


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## Com1 (May 27, 2012)

The way they ended season 2 is going to make a lot of people think the war against the others is starting, when actually they'll be in one episode in season 3 and then no sign of them for AT LEAST 4 more years.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

I watched Game of Thrones before I saw Season 2 of Spartacus. The second season obviously finished for the Americans so I'll go get a pirated version of the second season this coming long w/e (if I'm not playing too many games). I rather watch my seasons at my own leisure instead of being required to wait for each respective episode from week to week. I hope it's not as lacklustre as some have seemingly already reviewed it to be.


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## upndownboi (Oct 7, 2010)

going to be good seeing Mance Rayder. Also those Bravos people seem to be real good at fighting.


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## eppe (Apr 14, 2011)

alternate said:


> To anyone comparing this to lord of the rings, LOTR is boring and not a flea on the back of the Direwolf that is game if thrones. I want a Direwolf!


that comment is unfair to LOTR. LOTR set the stage for high fantasy. It is arguably one of the foundations of the genre which the game of thrones/a song of ice and fire is building on.

that aside, i see what you mean. LOTR was black and white when it came to its characters while game of thrones is more of a sprinkling of grey.



fanatic203 said:


> I _loved_ the shot at the end of the Other/White Walker. I really didn't know what it was going to look like, so I felt like I really got the force of how terrifying it was. If I was Sam I think I'd scream like a little girl and run away blindly. That scene was actually at the beginning of book three, but it was well placed at the end of season 2, so it really had an OMG ending like season 1.


i too liked the ending scene especially the look of resignation in sam's face when he saw the white walker riding an undead horse. although i'm not sure if it had the same impact on me as the ending for season 1 (to be fair, i'm a fan of daenerys).

am i the only one who thought of the walking dead with the ending scene?


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## alternate (May 2, 2012)

eppe said:


> (to be fair, i'm a fan of daenerys).
> 
> am i the only one who thought of the walking dead with the ending scene?


She was so/so in Season 1, but towards the end of Season 2 she has become so damn hot, especially in the later scenes of episode ten.

I definitely thought walking dead at the outro!


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## upndownboi (Oct 7, 2010)

alternate said:


> She was so/so in Season 1, but towards the end of Season 2 she has become so damn hot, especially in the later scenes of episode ten.
> 
> I definitely thought walking dead at the outro!


yeah she began very meek and 'whatever' about claiming/reclaiming her throne, it was totally her brother's thing at the beginning.. but she's discovered herself now. SASers take note: sure-fire way to build confidence and self-esteem=marry clan warlord and birth some dragons.

I take it Sam's dead now then? GoT's strong character-building (and then thinking nothing of killing them off) and how they portray them as morally grey and ambiguous are why I have big love for it. Storylines are good too.

I'm waiting for a white-walking dragon muwahaha


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## eppe (Apr 14, 2011)

alternate said:


> She was so/so in Season 1, but towards the end of Season 2 she has become so damn hot, especially in the later scenes of episode ten.


yeah. i get an erection whenever she says "I am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine with fire and blood."



upndownboi said:


> I take it Sam's dead now then? GoT's strong character-building (and then thinking nothing of killing them off) and how they portray them as morally grey and ambiguous are why I have big love for it. Storylines are good too.


was surprised that ned stark was executed. then again, he was played by sean bean so i shouldn't have been.


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## alternate (May 2, 2012)

eppe said:


> was surprised that ned stark was executed. then again, he was played by sean bean so i shouldn't have been.


When that originally happened I was like "what? No!"

He was my favorite character, at the time I didn't understand how the show could go on without him but since watching on I have a feeling many mire are still to be taken.

Aparently there's lots lots more characters to be introduced again!


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## eppe (Apr 14, 2011)

alternate said:


> Aparently there's lots lots more characters to be introduced again!


i hope those new characters doesn't affect daenerys' air time.


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## Sanctus (Dec 10, 2010)

love the series , i read the first book im curently at the second one , the tv show is awsome there are 2 video games i tried the second one the rpg and its decent it happens paralel to the first book , characters are a brother of the nights watch and a priest of R'hllor


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## eppe (Apr 14, 2011)

Sanctus said:


> love the series , i read the first book im curently at the second one , the tv show is awsome there are 2 video games i tried the second one the rpg and its decent it happens paralel to the first book , characters are a brother of the nights watch and a priest of R'hllor


which console has it or it's for pc/mac?


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

George RR Martin - I thought his first novel was one of the best first novels I have read. It was nominated for the Hugo award for science fiction. I saw he switched to fantasy which I don't like so much. But I tried out Game of Thrones and did not like it at all. Did not even finish the book. I have not seen the show.


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## Sanctus (Dec 10, 2010)

the game is for pc


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## eppe (Apr 14, 2011)

game of thrones political ads

http://www.geekosystem.com/game-of-thrones-attack-ads/


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Bumping because 20 days until the season 3 premier.
Here is the extended trailer:





I think I'm more nervous than excited since I really disliked some of their choices and changes the previous season (season 1 was amazing though). Changes are inevitable and they can work but I felt a lot were unnecessary, and completely changed some of the characters, e.g. like with Catelyn and Robb and ~sassy rebel nurse~ Talisa. And based on statements from the cast and the choices of HBO's framing of past events/issues in the promos and recaps it will probably just get worse.

Parts I am looking forward to (book spoilers):

[Spoiler=Up to A Storm of Swords]-Bear and the Maiden Brienne
-Jaime becoming left-handed
-Arya getting the dog she wanted (From her 2nd or 3rd ASoS chapter: _"I wish I had a good mean dog," said Arya wistfully_)
-When Catelyn talks about how much Ned loves her hair
-Sansa Stark does not kneel
-"Dracarys!" and "Mysha!"
-Meera and Jojen (though I read that there will unfortunately be some stupid female rivalry between Meera and Osha, which really goes against their characters but w/e
[/Spoiler]


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## fonz (Oct 15, 2008)

Really can't decide whether to watch this show,never seen it obviously. The description of it just doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in,but I don't know...


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

I just finished watching the second season last night, ready for the next! I'm so excited. Though, it will be annoying having to wait for the episodes, since I got used to watching it every day online. Just recently got into it and I love it. Just bought the first book yesterday too.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

I finished re-watching the 1st season last night (didn't feel like re-watching the 2nd), season one is so amazing it makes me cry.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Question for you guys - is the book series completed or is the author still writing?


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Yay new season. Looking forward to my boy King Joffery running **** from the iron throne. Hope he is able to bring those traitors in line all the Starks must die for there treason except Arya she is awesome.

Will have to watch the new episode first only up to the end of season 1 of my rewatch then I will probably read the books again.



Monroee said:


> Question for you guys - is the book series completed or is the author still writing?


No the book series is not finished. He has written 5 so far out of a planned 7 I think. It's pretty likely that he will never finish the series since he is pretty old and not healthy. Book 3 is the best in the series so far so this season and the next will be awesome


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Is it wrong that I like Joffrey?


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

ManuelVinn said:


> Is it wrong that I like Joffrey?


Nope he is the glorious leader of the seven kingdoms much loved by all his people.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

missingno said:


> Y
> No the book series is not finished. He has written 5 so far out of a planned 7 I think. It's pretty likely that he will never finish the series since he is pretty old and not healthy. Book 3 is the best in the series so far so this season and the next will be awesome


Thanks. I hope he hurries up. That would suck to be left hanging. It's really exciting that it's not over though, I had assumed the books were finished. Just bought the first one to get started. I'm gonna try to be slow so I don't catch up to this season though, as I kinda like to be surprised while watching the show lol.



ManuelVinn said:


> Is it wrong that I like Joffrey?


He's someone I just love to hate. Haha.


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

Looking forward to the beginning of another season tonight


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

missingno said:


> Monroee said:
> 
> 
> > Question for you guys - is the book series completed or is the author still writing?
> ...


To be honest, I think it's kind of rude how people always talk like he has one foot in the grave (I don't mean you specifically). But it is true that he takes a long time writing.

I am, however, very upset at a recent interview that said if the show catches up with the books, then they'll depict the ending in the show first before the books even come out.

And, in case anybody doesn't know, book 3 is being split into two seasons.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

fanatic203 said:


> I am, however, very upset at a recent interview that said if the show catches up with the books, then they'll depict the ending in the show first before the books even come out.


You mean the people doing the show know what happens in the future books before the books come out?

Oh, Missingno, you said he wrote 5, but isn't there only 4 out?


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## Bloodyneptune (Mar 16, 2013)

Season 3 tonight! HBO keeps playing "Rains of Castamer" and I'm freaking out.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Bloodyneptune said:


> Season 3 tonight! HBO keeps playing "Rains of Castamer" and I'm freaking out.


And so the rain hi...O&%^ this wall with no one so0ul to hear


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

I have the new episode burned on a disc, sitting in the dvd player, but I'm supposed to watch it with my bf later. I want to watch it with him but it's so tempting!!!!!



fanatic203 said:


> I am, however, very upset at a recent interview that said if the show catches up with the books, then they'll depict the ending in the show first before the books even come out.


Wow that would be just awful. I already don't like a lot of the changes they've made (e.g. Changes to Catelyn; Robb & Talisa in general) so I would not at all trust the showmakers with the rest of the story.



Monroee said:


> You mean the people doing the show know what happens in the future books before the books come out?
> 
> Oh, Missingno, you said he wrote 5, but isn't there only 4 out?


Here's what's released so far (and release dates, to give you an idea of how long it is between books):

1. A Game of Thrones (August 1996)
2. A Clash of Kings (February 1999)
3. A Storm of Swords (November 2000)
4. A Feast for Crows (November 2005)
5. A Dance with Dragons (July 2011)

The author has a lot on his plate right now ("World of Ice and Fire", touring doing conventions, he writes one ep of the show per season, has some side-projects, etc) so it'll definitely be quite a while before the next two books are released.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

The imp would rule castelry rock better than anyone, why can tywin see this?


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Monroee said:


> You mean the people doing the show know what happens in the future books before the books come out?


Yes, George R. R. Martin works on the show, and he's already told the other producers basically what's going to happen.



nothing to fear said:


> Wow that would be just awful. I already don't like a lot of the changes they've made (e.g. Changes to Catelyn; Robb & Talisa in general) so I would not at all trust the showmakers with the rest of the story.


Yeah, they also said more changes are coming. But Martin works on the show, so all the changes are done with his permission. Yeah, I don't like the whole Talisa thing, but my main problem is the dramatic changes to Dany's storyline last season, like the random locking Doreah in a vault (which was explained in a deleted scene







)

Anyway, hooray for last night!


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## Sohrab (Mar 21, 2013)

The season premiere was good. Mance and Tormund are much more colorful characters in the books though...hopefully they depict them that way in future episodes. I don't like how they changed Jon's motivation for joining the wildlings..in the books he attributes it to his treatment for being a *******. edit: lol basturd is censored.

Looking forward to seeing Arya and Bran next week.


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## Gavroche (Jan 12, 2013)

This new episode was okay, felt v sad for Tyrion getting that tongue lashing from daddy Lannister. And strangely Geoffrey did not get on my nerves so much this episode haha.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

fanatic203 said:


> Yeah, they also said more changes are coming. But Martin works on the show, so all the changes are done with his permission. Yeah, I don't like the whole Talisa thing, but my main problem is the dramatic changes to Dany's storyline last season, like the random locking Doreah in a vault (which was explained in a deleted scene
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish it was the case but he doesn't approve what happens. E.g. they decided to kill off Mago in season 1 (when he fought Khal Drogo because Dany stopped him and others from raping those women, and Drogo killed him and ripped out his tongue) but GRRM didn't like the change, described it as a "butterfly effect" because he said he is alive and well in ADWD and will later be important.
In book 1 she said this to him and Jhaqo before they left: 
"It was a cruel fate, Yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh." 
[Spoiler=Then in ADWD]There was the really epic last Dany chapter when Jhaqo's khalasar finds her standing beside Drogon.[/spoiler] I know you know all that already but it was so awesome (and I hope goes in her favour). 

I/R/T Dany's season 2 storyline, I really disliked that too. Doreah was so loyal to Dany in the books and season 1 (she tried to protect her from Viserys!) and in book 2 Dany held her in her arms as she died. I saw the deleted scene with Doreah and Irri and I am soo glad they didn't include it, it was pretty bad haha.

ANYWAY I enjoyed the episode. My favourite part was Ser Barristan's reveal at the end.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

All I care about is when the next book is coming out.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

nothing to fear said:


> ANYWAY I enjoyed the episode. My favourite part was Ser Barristan's reveal at the end.


That was probably my least favourite part :/ 
[spoiler=For the first episode of season 3 and the part of the books it covers] I don't know why they changed it to reveal Barristan immediately (and seemingly cut Strong Belwas, one of the most fun characters, out of the show completely), have Littlefinger speak to Sansa about escaping rather than Ser Dontos, which takes away drama from that, and have the inexplicable Ros promoted to Littlefinger's PA.[/spoiler]

Mostly I'm fine with the changes they've made from the books (although I wish they made it more than 10 episodes per season, because they have to cut so much that it sometimes barely makes sense without having read the books), but in this episode IMO they really made a lot of massive and terrible changes for no obvious reason (with the arguable exception of the Barristan reveal; although it's not like anyone would actually have recognised him unless they knew the actor personally)/


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Gavroche said:


> This new episode was okay, felt v sad for Tyrion getting that tongue lashing from daddy Lannister.


I did feel very sad during that part. lol. *sad face*

I can't comment on the changes done, since I haven't read the books yet. The ending of the episode was pretty creepy though.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

nothing to fear said:


> I wish it was the case but he doesn't approve what happens. E.g. they decided to kill off Mago in season 1 (when he fought Khal Drogo because Dany stopped him and others from raping those women, and Drogo killed him and ripped out his tongue) but GRRM didn't like the change, described it as a "butterfly effect" because he said he is alive and well in ADWD and will later be important.


Oh. I shall take your word for it


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## ForBrighterDays (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm oblivious to these changes people keep talking about, because I discovered the show first. Every episode I'm thinking 'poor Tyrion.' :'[ Also, Dany is fierce.


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## ltrain (Sep 11, 2011)

ManuelVinn said:


> Is it wrong that I like Joffrey?


I can't stand him. He reminds me of a spoilt little brat and a little bully. 
I would happily slit his throat if I could. I hate him with a passion


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## DontDoSadness (Jan 12, 2011)

Illusions said:


> I'm oblivious to these changes people keep talking about, because I discovered the show first. Every episode I'm thinking 'poor Tyrion.' :'[ Also, Dany is fierce.


Agreed. Felt so sorry for him in this episode and Dany really is fierce.


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## DreamerInSlumberland (Mar 6, 2013)

I liked the season premiere. Dany was awesome... but I agree with many on Tyrion. I sympathized with him deeply. He's my favorite male character, so seeing him get ridiculed like that was painful. He deserved better.


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## Kanova (Dec 17, 2012)

I _really _don't like Game of Thrones or fire and ice or whatever. Something about reading of a 13 year old **** a barbarian and learning that EVERY SINGLE MAIN ****ING CHARACTER DIES kind of turned me off it a bit.


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

watching it again just reminded me how painfully slow it is. i need to wait till this season is finished so i can watch it all at once.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

ltrain said:


> I can't stand him. He reminds me of a spoilt little brat and a little bully.
> I would happily slit his throat if I could. I hate him with a passion


I laugh a lot of his behavior, like when he said he would give a red smile to stannis, or when he was hitted by the imp in the face, or when he lost his sword to arya...I can't stop laughing, he is so talent-less.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Kanova said:


> I _really _don't like Game of Thrones or fire and ice or whatever. Something about reading of a 13 year old **** a barbarian and learning that EVERY SINGLE MAIN ****ING CHARACTER DIES kind of turned me off it a bit.


o k


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

Kanova, if you don't like the series don't post in a thread about it. Certainly don't post unmarked spoilers for it.

And it'd be best if you deleted that quote, nothing to fear.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Luna Sea said:


> Kanova, if you don't like the series don't post in a thread about it. Certainly don't post unmarked spoilers for it.


I agree. I'd just like to ask politely if people can be careful not to post open spoilers, to be considerate of those who both happen to enjoy the show and don't know what happens later in the series yet..

I just bought the first 3 books, still reading the first and I really like them so far. I'm gonna try to stay behind the current show, so I can still be surprised, but I'm sure I'll be really tempted once I catch up lol..


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## DreamerInSlumberland (Mar 6, 2013)

I love the chemistry between Brienne and Jaime.


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## ForBrighterDays (Mar 2, 2013)

^Yes! In a perfect world, those two would get together.


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

I feel so sorry for Sansa Stark. Perhaps she'll grow to have a heart of stone so many around her already possess. If she does it'll ruin her for me too however. Can't always win


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Canadian Brotha said:


> I feel so sorry for Sansa Stark. Perhaps she'll grow to have a heart of stone so many around her already possess. If she does it'll ruin her for me too however. Can't always win


I'm really curious to see how things work out for Sansa and how all this changes her personality. Her childish naivety that she had before is obviously dead and gone.


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

ManuelVinn said:


> I laugh a lot of his behavior, like when he said he would give a red smile to stannis, or when he was hitted by the imp in the face, or when he lost his sword to arya...I can't stop laughing, *he is so talent-less*.


Are you serious did you see the latest episode and his no scope with the crossbow hitting the target. That is skill easily in the top 5 crossbow users in all of the 7 kingdoms.

As for the other characters I hate Catelyn so much. I'm glad they added that scene talking about Jon Snow just shows what a terrible person she is, in the books we were able to see her thoughts and all easily the worst character in both show and books. Wish she was in Theon's place right now.

Oh and for Sansa I hope she never gets to do anything epic quite simply she doesn't deserve it she is nothing but a pawn that sold out her own family. She comes across so childish compared to her younger sister. On another note the actress playing her is hot don't care what age she is.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

The scene with Joffery and the woman he's now betrothed to (what's her name?), when he was showing her the crossbow, I was so creeped during it. They look like they are going to make one dangerous couple, at least from what I see so far...

And also, I love Arya, she's such an awesome character and so intelligent, she really grew on me. I missed not having a scene with Dany this week though, lol.


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## AliBaba (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm a noob to Game Of Thrones & just finished Season 2(just started reading the books) and was hoping you guys could answer a question for me:

*How the hell did Stannis Baratheon escape the Battle of Blackwater?*

1. He climbs the ladder and is fighting inside the city walls(I was impressed with his bravery ).
2. Tywin Lannister arrives, appears to slaughter everyone outside the walls, and declares: "The battle is won!"
3. ????
4. In the next episode Stannis has returned home & the red witch shows him the future.

The show is so well done that I'm assuming I just missed something. If not that would be a pretty gigantic plot hole.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

I liked episode 2 of season 3

Joffrey should have had sex with the new queen in their scene, but now he is going hunting? what the hell stop talking big and do something lol

the bad boy, butcher stannis didn't show up to invite me to go with him and take this city, but is ok I think he will be a long time catching flys after black water.

I like jamie, I wonder if he will get back to his family soon, I doubt he will get killed next episode, it would be such a waste of a character.

This king of the north is a joke, he will never get the Iron throne, I think the zoombies will play a more important role in the history and his revanche will be forgoten.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

missingno said:


> Are you serious did you see the latest episode and his no scope with the crossbow hitting the target. That is skill easily in the top 5 crossbow users in all of the 7 kingdoms.


haha


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

ManuelVinn said:


> This king of the north is a joke, he will never get the Iron throne,


I thought Robb wasn't trying to take the Iron Throne? He was only avenging his father against the Lannisters and trying to get them off the throne. And he would be king in the north and have Winterfell be separate and free from the kingdom? Unless you meant he just wouldn't be able to free the iron throne of the Lannisters, in which I agree, at the moment I don't see how he's strong enough to do that..


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Monroee said:


> I thought Robb wasn't trying to take the Iron Throne? He was only avenging his father against the Lannisters and trying to get them off the throne. And he would be king in the north and have Winterfell be separate and free from the kingdom? Unless you meant he just wouldn't be able to free the iron throne of the Lannisters, in which I agree, at the moment I don't see how he's strong enough to do that..


yes, that's what i meant


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

The last episode was really well done. I love Bran's story line with the mysterious stranger who seems to know about Bran's destiny. 

And I didn't expect Jaimie to get beaten by Brienne considering how arrogant he is. That was a great scene. We were denied a fight between Ned Stark and Jaimie but at least we got this one. 

I would love to see Brienne versus the "The Hound."


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> The last episode was really well done. I love Bran's story line with the mysterious stranger who seems to know about Bran's destiny.
> 
> And I didn't expect Jaimie to get beaten by Brienne considering how arrogant he is. That was a great scene. We were denied a fight between Ned Stark and Jaimie but at least we got this one.
> 
> I would love to see Brienne versus the "The Hound."


jaime had chains in his arms.

I hate bran's part, there is nothing interstinf and there is this annoying thing that he lost his legs and suddently he has powers and is chosen to something, why can't it be as cruel as it is in real life, like :you will be a criple for the rest of your life and that's it.


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## TheExplosionist (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't like the fantasy elements that have been brought in for season 3. 
Giants can't exist as people over 8 feet have serious knee and back problems. They'd have to have enormous legs to support the strain and move very slowly.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

TheExplosionist said:


> I don't like the fantasy elements that have been brought in for season 3.
> Giants can't exist as people over 8 feet have serious knee and back problems. They'd have to have enormous legs to support the strain and move very slowly.


Giants in ASoIaF aren't people really, they're a different species (like the first men) and aren't just really tall people.



AngelClare said:


> The last episode was really well done. I love Bran's story line with the mysterious stranger who seems to know about Bran's destiny.


This is one of the weirdest changes from the books. Meera and Jojen were supposed to have met Bran in Winterfell a long time ago, with Jojen explaining about the green dreams and reading omens. For some reason they cut that out and had Bran figure it out on his own, and now they met Meera and Jojen (who are supposed to be from the neck, way, way to the south) in the wilderness. It's strange :S



AliBaba said:


> I'm a noob to Game Of Thrones & just finished Season 2(just started reading the books) and was hoping you guys could answer a question for me:
> 
> *How the hell did Stannis Baratheon escape the Battle of Blackwater?*
> 
> ...


Stannis and some of his men escaped on their pirates' ships (which avoided the wildfire by not going into the bay) when their army was broken by Tywin and Renly's ghost.



Monroee said:


> The scene with Joffery and the woman he's now betrothed to (what's her name?)


Margaery Tyrell

Tbh, I think that the TV show should come with an appendix like the book does, so you can see who everyone is and the houses and such.


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## ratbag (Aug 2, 2009)

One thing I'm hoping is that the show doesn't mess up Tyrion and Shae's story line. It's already bad enough as it is.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Started watching this show about a week ago, so damn addictive!

I must read the books if they are as good!

Who else was pretty impressed by the battle of blackwater when it aired? Since they never show big battles I wasn't expecting much, but holy crap it looked like something out of a blockbuster movie


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Luna Sea said:


> Tbh, I think that the TV show should come with an appendix like the book does, so you can see who everyone is and the houses and such.


I didn't even realize there was an appendix in the back of the book, that's very useful. Thanks for mentioning that, lol, I didn't see that.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> Started watching this show about a week ago, so damn addictive!
> 
> I must read the books if they are as good!
> 
> Who else was pretty impressed by the battle of blackwater when it aired? Since they never show big battles I wasn't expecting much, but holy crap it looked like something out of a blockbuster movie


Yeah that was an awesome battle. I was really hoping Joffrey was going to die that night. When The Hound quit I thought for sure Joffrey was done. I hate that little twerp. I don't know why the Lannisters don't realize that the kid is ruining them. All he had to do was accept Ned's apology.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> Yeah that was an awesome battle. I was really hoping Joffrey was going to die that night. When The Hound quit I thought for sure Joffrey was done. I hate that little twerp. I don't know why the Lannisters don't realize that the kid is ruining them. All he had to do was accept Ned's apology.


They know that Joff is demented (hence Tyrion and now Tywin coming to King's Landing to be his hand/minder), but he's a Lannister and his mere existence basically gives them the seven kingdoms. That's not a bad deal.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Luna Sea said:


> They know that Joff is demented (hence Tyrion and now Tywin coming to King's Landing to be his hand/minder), but he's a Lannister and his mere existence basically gives them the seven kingdoms. That's not a bad deal.


But they were moments away from being killed by Stanis' army. Jaime is a captive and could have easily been killed by now. Jaime, Cersei and Joffrey are destroying the family through poor decisions. If not for Tyrion they would all be dead by now.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> But they were moments away from being killed by Stanis' army. Jaime is a captive and could have easily been killed by now. Jaime, Cersei and Joffrey are destroying the family through poor decisions. If not for Tyrion they would all be dead by now.


Why do you say if not for Tyrion? It was Tywin who saved all of their bacon, and I can't think of anything Jaime's done to hurt them aside from the incest (unless you blame him for getting captured at the whispering wood).


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Just got finished watching the last episode. And the ending scene... My response was full of cursing and cringing. Did _not_ expect that! Still in shock haha.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Luna Sea said:


> Why do you say if not for Tyrion? It was Tywin who saved all of their bacon, and I can't think of anything Jaime's done to hurt them aside from the incest (unless you blame him for getting captured at the whispering wood).


Tywin only prevailed because most of Stanis' fleet was destroyed in a well planned trap setup by Tyrion. And Tyrion bought enough time for Tywin to arrive.

And I do consider Jaime's incest to be a big deal. He invalidated the Lannister claim to the throne. If Cersei had managed to give birth to a real heir no one would have challenged the Lannister claim to the throne when Robert died.

But finally Jaime got what he deserved. I don't know why I feel sorry for him. But losing his hand is fate worse than death for him. I don't think he can handle (pardon the pun) being a crippled like Tyrion. I think Jaime's going to become a monster filled with bitterness and hate.


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

Monroee said:


> Just got finished watching the last episode. And the ending scene... My response was full of cursing and cringing. Did _not_ expect that! Still in shock haha.


I agree. I was thinking he would take a finger not his whole hand, lol


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> Tywin only prevailed because most of Stanis' fleet was destroyed in a well planned trap setup by Tyrion. And Tyrion bought enough time for Tywin to arrive.
> 
> And I do consider Jaime's incest to be a big deal. He invalidated the Lannister claim to the throne. If Cersei had managed to give birth to a real heir no one would have challenged the Lannister claim to the throne when Robert died.


Cersei invalidated it when she aborted Robert's son and didn't do the same for Jaime's. And in the series Tyrion contributes very little to the battle, since the wildfire is Joffrey/Cersei's idea that he takes over, and IIRC they cut his real masterstroke (building a giant chain underwater so that Stannis's fleet can't escape) out entirely. The battle was pretty much lost until Tywin showed up with the Tyrells (the alliance and joining of the houses with house Tyrell being another massive contribution of Tywin).

Obviously Tyrion's lovable and Tywin's a massive ****, but he's still awesome.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Luna Sea said:


> Cersei invalidated it when she aborted Robert's son and didn't do the same for Jaime's. And in the series Tyrion contributes very little to the battle, since the wildfire is Joffrey/Cersei's idea that he takes over, and IIRC they cut his real masterstroke (building a giant chain underwater so that Stannis's fleet can't escape) out entirely. The battle was pretty much lost until Tywin showed up with the Tyrells (the alliance and joining of the houses with house Tyrell being another massive contribution of Tywin).
> 
> Obviously Tyrion's lovable and Tywin's a massive ****, but he's still awesome.


Yes, the wildfire was Cercei's idea but it was Tyrion who realized how to use the wildfire. Cercei and the other fools wanted to launch wildfire from catapults which was a horrible idea. Imagine a castle full of extremely cumbustible liquid during a battle. And Tyrion managed the entire defense. How can you say he "contributes very little to the battle?"

After destroying the bulk of Stanis' overwhelming forces before they even landed Tyrion comes up with a plan to sneak behind some of the remaining forces to defend the castle. Joffrey ran like a coward. Tyrion's victory was short lived but he bought them desperately needed time.

When Tywin comes in he is only dealing with a seriously weakened enemy. And Tywin pretty much admits that Tyrion saved the day but he refused to praise him for it. Nothing Tyrion does is good enough.

If you don't know that Tyrion is the hero of Blackwater then you're missing a lot of Martin's story in the interaction between Tyrion and Tywin.

Tyrion is the best of the Lannister's but because of the tragic circumstances of his birth he is not recognized as such.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Oh man, I feel so bad for jamie. Kill all that bolton *******s


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

No one should feel sorry for jamie after the last episode, he only lost the one hand, bran lost the use of BOTH his legs.

Jamie got off lightly..


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

ok, but I like his carachter, now he won't be a good fighter and will be a criple. I wanted to see him as a normal men, the lannisters are all wrong, a dwolf, a criple, a twisted teenager, A cersei..


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

He could learn with his left hand? Really it would be great if jamie and his sister died so tyrion could inherit casterly rock


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

relevant:






I've only read the first book but this still cracked me up.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> No one should feel sorry for jamie after the last episode, he only lost the one hand, bran lost the use of BOTH his legs.
> 
> Jamie got off lightly..


But Jaime is badass and charismatic; Bran is whiny and annoying.



Droidsteel said:


> He could learn with his left hand? Really it would be great if jamie and his sister died so tyrion could inherit casterly rock


Jaime is already disinherited since members of the Kingsguard can't hold lands or titles, and Cersei comes behind Tyrion already since she's a woman. So if he can't inherit it in front of them, he never will.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Luna Sea said:


> But Jaime is badass and charismatic; Bran is whiny and annoying.


Yeah, I think Jaime losing his hand is more important that Bran losing his legs. To me, Jaime is a more important character right now. I haven't read the rest of the series, so I don't know if Bran becomes more important later, but right now Jaime is more interesting and influential to the storyline. I'm really curious to see the next episode and how Jaime reacts to this horrible turn of events. lol.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Personally I am more sympathetic to bran, but Im quite bias when any starks are involved.

Jaime has always been a great charachter, but he's begun to become more interesting since cat let him go.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Luna Sea said:


> But Jaime is badass and charismatic; Bran is whiny and annoying.


Uhhh...He had sex with his sister and he pushed a little boy out a window. When the little boy didn't die he hired assassins to finish him off.

Jaime is charismatic but beneath the good looks and charisma you find a monster.

I think I'm going to watch that scene where he gets his hand chopped off again. Everything the guy who did the chopping said was true. Jaime thinks he can buy or talk his way out of anything. He thinks he's better than everyone. Well now that's over. He lost in battle to Rob Stark, in swordsmanship to a woman and now his hand.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

AngelClare said:


> Uhhh...He had sex with his sister and he pushed a little boy out a window. When the little boy didn't die *he hired assassins to finish him off*.


That has not been established.

Not that I'm saying I feel bad for him.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

I think the fact that a lot of fans can root for charachters like jaime lannister is sort of a reflection of people's general attitude of:

beautiful individuals = good individuals

Draco Malfoy had legions of fangirls who would like him in spite of everything he did in the potter books and jaime seems to have a similar effect on people.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Droidsteel said:


> I think the fact that a lot of fans can root for charachters like jaime lannister is sort of a reflection of people's general attitude of:
> 
> beautiful individuals = good individuals
> 
> Draco Malfoy had legions of fangirls who would like him in spite of everything he did in the potter books and jaime seems to have a similar effect on people.


not necessarily, Snape has tons of fangirls and fans in general too. I don't find Jaime attractive either though :/ although I'm sure many do. Jon Snow is definitely better looking to me. I think it's more of a people loving the villian/anti hero thing, you see it in everything even when it's a character who's a gender that a person isn't attracted to they still generally love the bad guy's.

Ironically Goffrey is basically young Draco Malfoy but most people hate him, myself included. Definitely the most annoying character.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

GotAnxiety said:


> I dunno I could say some **** but I'm not...........................


huh?


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

You don't need to agree with his action to like a carachter, He is simply entertainer, it's a show, not real life, People want to see chit happen.

If everybody was good and perfect I wouldn't even watch this shows.
What is the fun now? his ability was being good with sword, now he don't have it anymore. It can still become intersting if he enters in an self growing and analyzes to become a different person tough.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> Uhhh...He had sex with his sister and he pushed a little boy out a window. When the little boy didn't die he hired assassins to finish him off.
> 
> Jaime is charismatic but beneath the good looks and charisma you find a monster.
> 
> I think I'm going to watch that scene where he gets his hand chopped off again. Everything the guy who did the chopping said was true. Jaime thinks he can buy or talk his way out of anything. He thinks he's better than everyone. Well now that's over. He lost in battle to Rob Stark, in swordsmanship to a woman and now his hand.


But Bran is a boring goody goody who never does or says anything interesting. This might be exacerbated for people who read the books (the standard response being "Oh god, not a Bran chapter; more ****ing dreams about being a wolf").

Jaime was ambushed at the Whispering Wood by Robb's forces and was captured after he realised the battle was lost and tried to kill his way to Robb (cutting down plenty of people and eventually getting overwhelmed). Similarly, he lost to Brienne after not even using his arms for weeks and while his wrists were chained together (although there was a serious plot hole in the series here, since it's unclear why Brienne would be carrying an extra sword for Jaime to fight her with; in the books he takes the recently-slain Cleos Frey's sword). Jaime's clearly one of the best warriors in the world, behind maybe the hound and the mountain.

So disappointed at what they did to the Bloody Mummers (the group who captured Jaime); they took out all the colour from them and made them just another band of boring mercenaries. In the books they have a dothraki warrior (who cuts off Jaime's hand with his arakh), a mad jester and Vargo Hoat (the guy who cut off Jaime's hand in the series) was a lunatic with a massive lisp, not some forgettable nothing.


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## ForBrighterDays (Mar 2, 2013)

Oh no Jaime, your sword hand! I knew it was coming, but I still screamed 'noooo!' :'(


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## ForBrighterDays (Mar 2, 2013)

I tend to gravitate towards the bad guys in TV shows; I like to look for scraps of humanity in them, it just makes the experience more interesting for me. The heel face turn (bad guy turns good) is one of my favourite tropes.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Tonight's episode was amazing. I was ready to follow Daenerys Stormborn anywhere.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

^ I think the end of the last episode was the best thing that hashappend in daenery's whole story arc. Im ALMOST rooting for her now.

It was also great to see craster die


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Oh my... That scene with Daenerys gave me chill after chill after chill after chill. _By far_ my favourite scene in the whole series yet. Her growth in this show is mesmerizing. I'd fall on my sword for this woman.


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## The Silent 1 (Aug 21, 2011)

Its interesting to compare whats driving the main contenders to the throne. Robb wants to avenge his father, but more than that he just realizes his family and lands won't be safe with the Lannisters in power. Stannis is driven by a sense of injustice since he should by law be king and everyone else is a dirty thief in his book (even though he himself supported Robert's rebellion). Renly seemed to decide he should be king because he was well liked. But with Danenerys, it isn't just that she feels the throne is rightfully hers, but she almost treats it like some sort of divine calling. I heard the show runners compare her to Joan of Arc, and its an apt comparison.


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## ratbag (Aug 2, 2009)

I can't wait for Beric and The Hound's fight next week. I also want to see more Davos, so hopefully he'll be in the next episode.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Daenerys's scene was so awesome! And I loved her Valyrian accent -- it was so good it almost made me believe it was a real language. I wish the fighting went on a bit longer, though. It seemed to be cut short.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

First time I ever got interest in an daenerys targaryan scene, too bad I heard she will be going around and won't go to kings landing that soon. I am imagining how they feed that amount of soldiers traveling xp

No matter how I tried I couldn't understand with my low englich what was going on in the snow and why they killed the owner of the farm, the song was too low in my video. 

I wish there was more action in the imp's part, and jaime too.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

I actually felt bad for Jaime and Theon. When Theon says Ned was his real dad and that he mad some poor decisions it breaks your heart. As a the viewer you wanted to see Jaime and Theon pay for their deeds but their fate seems so horrific it's hard to stomach. 

The entire episode seems to be people getting what they had coming. When Ned dies it feels like a world where the wicked go unpunished. But not tonight. 

No one suffers more than the magician who tortured Varys as a boy. Varys' little story is one of my favorites. It's setup so well. Don't mess with Varys.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I actually felt bad for Jaime and Theon. When Theon says Ned was his real dad and that he mad some poor decisions it breaks your heart. As a the viewer you wanted to see Jaime and Theon pay for their deeds but their fate seems so horrific it's hard to stomach.
> 
> The entire episode seems to be people getting what they had coming. When Ned dies it feels like a world where the wicked go unpunished. But not tonight.
> 
> No one suffers more than the magician who tortured Varys as a boy. Varys' little story is one of my favorites. It's setup so well. Don't mess with Varys.


I think those punishments are no way near acceptable, I could never do such things with a person. I thinks Torture is unacceptable, I hate that bolton psychopaths, did you noticed the guy murder his fellows just to play a game with theon? WTF


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

ManuelVinn said:


> I think those punishments are no way near acceptable, I could never do such things with a person. I thinks Torture is unacceptable, I hate that bolton psychopaths, did you noticed the guy murder his fellows just to play a game with theon? WTF


It's like Theon went straight to hell for his sins. Imagine thinking you escaped from a torture chamber only to find yourself back there again.

The moments when Theon is confessing his sins are so poignant. He confesses to having those farm kids' throats slit just to save himself. He seemed keenly aware that he deserved what happened to him. But he had no idea that his punishment had only just begun.

One thing I don't get is why Theon's dad is punishing him for taking Winterfell?


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## TheExplosionist (Apr 13, 2009)

The mutiny at Craster's keep was rather disturbing. :afr


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

TheExplosionist said:


> The mutiny at Craster's keep was rather disturbing. :afr


At the same time I thought it was brilliant though, like when danni's brother died.

Both charachters had a massive sense of entitelment and had the view that everyone should bend a knee to them, exactly the type of people I hate in real life.

Plus the night's watchman who killed him had that awsome 'daughter ****ing *******' line XD


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

AngelClare said:


> One thing I don't get is why Theon's dad is punishing him for taking Winterfell?


He isn't. Roose Bolton's ******* son is.

Edit: stars meaning "illegitimate"


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

fanatic203 said:


> He isn't. Roose Bolton's ******* son is.
> 
> Edit: stars meaning "illegitimate"


I remember Theon getting knocked out at Winterfell by some of his men. I thought they were taking him back to the Iron Islands. How did he get in Roose Bolton's hands? And why does Bolton hate him?


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Epic episode especially the ending went just as well as I hoped it would. Sadly that will be the last time that Daenerys will be interesting unless the show changes things up.

Oh and poor Theon all those feels hope you hang in there brah


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I remember Theon getting knocked out at Winterfell by some of his men. I thought they were taking him back to the Iron Islands. How did he get in Roose Bolton's hands? And why does Bolton hate him?


Rob stark ordered that every iron men would be aloud to go home if they gave Theon greyjoy as a prisoner. The Boltons are stark's friends and they were the one surrounding winterfell when theon was captured.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

missingno said:


> Sadly that will be the last time that Daenerys will be interesting unless the show changes things up.


Why's that? (if you can say it without giving spoilers).


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I remember Theon getting knocked out at Winterfell by some of his men. I thought they were taking him back to the Iron Islands. How did he get in Roose Bolton's hands? And why does Bolton hate him?





ManuelVinn said:


> Rob stark ordered that every iron men would be aloud to go home if they gave Theon greyjoy as a prisoner. The Boltons are stark's friends and they were the one surrounding winterfell when theon was captured.


That. Theon's a prisoner at the Dreadfort, which is the seat of House Bolton (who are pledged to the Starks); the guy who helped him escape just to play a game with him is Roose Bolton's ******* son Ramsay, who is beyond crazy.

[spoiler=Spoiler for people who haven't read the books]I feel bad that everyone who hasn't read them will feel like Daenerys is finally getting somewhere, and we know she's barely going anywhere in the next 4 books. I wish GRRM would hurry up and move her to Westeros; Meereen is sucking the will to live out of me in its chapters.[/spoiler]


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## catcharay (Sep 15, 2011)

I really want to start watching this. The costuming is awesome. It's confusing at first because of the array of characters lol


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Monroee said:


> Why's that? (if you can say it without giving spoilers).


Hard to do without spoilers it's just a big let down from the point we are at now. Maybe the show can make it a bit more interesting but it will never get close to the scene with the unsullied. The spoiler tag by Luna Sea sums it up pretty well if you are curious enough to read it.


----------



## yadx (Nov 2, 2012)

really liked the last episode, especially the ending


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

missingno said:


> Hard to do without spoilers it's just a big let down from the point we are at now. Maybe the show can make it a bit more interesting but it will never get close to the scene with the unsullied. The spoiler tag by Luna Sea sums it up pretty well if you are curious enough to read it.


I was reading some things about GoT on another site and accidently read 3 spoilers - so I'm gonna avoid any spoilers just in case, as I got mega pissed that I came across them lol. It's tempting though. I know it's just your opinion, but do you mean it gets disappointing in the whole series, or just what's going to be displayed this season? I'm just sad to hear that because Dany's story is my favourite because of how it's been building up. :|


----------



## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Monroee said:


> I was reading some things about GoT on another site and accidently read 3 spoilers - so I'm gonna avoid any spoilers just in case, as I got mega pissed that I came across them lol. It's tempting though. I know it's just your opinion, but do you mean it gets disappointing in the whole series, or just what's going to be displayed this season? I'm just sad to hear that because Dany's story is my favourite because of how it's been building up. :|


Dosen't suprise me at all to be honest, danny's plotline has usually been a boring distraction imo with one or two amazing scenes. I'm impressed with how quickly she left astopor compared to quath, but it dosen't change the fact that her story has been pretty weak and streightforward so far. When the tv switched to her scenes I've always wanted them to get back to the more interesting stuff and now reading the first book I'm like -__- every time a daenerys chaper comes up.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Droidsteel said:


> Dosen't suprise me at all to be honest, danny's plotline has usually been a boring distraction imo with one or two amazing scenes. I'm impressed with how quickly she left astopor compared to quath, but it dosen't change the fact that her story has been pretty weak and streightforward so far. When the tv switched to her scenes I've always wanted them to get back to the more interesting stuff and now reading the first book I'm like -__- every time a daenerys chaper comes up.


I feel exactly like that, except replace Dany with Bran. lol. To me, his is the most boring in the show and book...


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Daenerys still does some awesome stuff after "_Dracarys_!" (ADWD shouldn't be until next season) and anyway some people haven't read the books so it might be best to put potential spoilers under cuts.


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

nothing to fear said:


> Daenerys still does some awesome stuff after "_Dracarys_!" (ADWD shouldn't be until next season) and anyway some people haven't read the books so it might be best to put *potential spoilers* under cuts.


[spoiler=yo non book readers don't click]your avatar and status comment combo is a potential spoiler for people who haven't read the books.[/spoiler]


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

The king of the north is done


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

ManuelVinn said:


> The king of the north is done


Unless he can somehow get the help from mr filch


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Daenerys Targaryen is a bad ***.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

missingno said:


> [spoiler=yo non book readers don't click]your avatar and status comment combo is a potential spoiler for people who haven't read the books.[/spoiler]


[spoiler=yo non book readers don't click] I'm not sure if you're being serious =P. But okay I'll change it to "Mother Merciless" (I don't think it's spoiler-y, pretty sure there's a quote where she says her heart is made of stone or something)

Edit: WAIT actually "The Hangwoman" is better.[/spoiler]


----------



## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

The latest episode was really good. Cave scene and the bath scene especially.


----------



## TheAspiringNothing (May 20, 2012)

I really dig the show, and have since season one. My only complaint is they made some of the actors way too attractive to be playing their book counterparts. Dinklage especially...


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah he is described as grotesque in the books. Brienne is supposed to be unattractive too but Gwendoline Christie is gorgeous.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

hotchk12 said:


> I really dig the show, and have since season one. My only complaint is they made some of the actors way too attractive to be playing their book counterparts. Dinklage especially...





nothing to fear said:


> Yeah he is described as grotesque in the books. Brienne is supposed to be unattractive too but Gwendoline Christie is gorgeous.


Probably because it's hard to get a career as an actor without being at least average looking unless you have one HELL of a personality. Very few really ugly people get in to the acting business.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

pretty people give more audience


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Ok, reviving this thread because I have a few questions i'm curious about, maybe some book readers (or show watchers who are more perceptive than me) can answer.

1. I'm wondering weather this is a plot hole or not, but when Robb passed the twins in season 1 (I think it was season 1) someone mentioned that Walder Frey was giving him most of his forces except a few hundred...

Now with the whole attack casterly rock plan, he wants to get the help of Walder Frey's army, which I thought he kinda _already had._ Unless he means the few hundred men left, which doesn't make sense either because he'd be trying to replace thousands of men with a few hundred. So is there something I've missed or is it just a plot hole?

2. Another possible minor plot hole. Why doesn't Theon guess straight away where he's being kept? He should know what the Bolton's banner is, (a flayed man on a sorta cross thing) and he is being tortured one the _exact same_ thing as the man on their banner is... Why did he think the Karstarks had him?

3. Not a plot hole this time, just a think I'm not sure about. Where exactly are Jamie and Brieanne at the moment? Because I assumed that they were at the Bolton's main castle/keep/thingy where Theon is, but reading through the first book I noticed that Robb said he was going to post Roose Bolton at some other castle they passed on the way to the neck. So are they at the place Rob posted Roose Bolton? The show hasn't mention or if it had I missed it. I mean they were heading south... were they in another place that the Boltons advanced to?? I'm just confused as to were Jamie and Brianne are right now...

Any answers or suggestions would be appreciated


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

This is a little late but that flaming sword fight with the hound was one of the best sword fights I have ever seen. Movie quality production. 

I enjoyed the banter between Varys and Little Finger. It seems Little Finger is some sort of anarchist. When you think about it, his betrayal of Ned is the cause of all this bloodshed. He wanted everything to fall apart because chaos, according to him, is a ladder.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> 1. I'm wondering weather this is a plot hole or not, but when Robb passed the twins in season 1 (I think it was season 1) someone mentioned that Walder Frey was giving him most of his forces except a few hundred...
> 
> Now with the whole attack casterly rock plan, he wants to get the help of Walder Frey's army, which I thought he kinda _already had._ Unless he means the few hundred men left, which doesn't make sense either because he'd be trying to replace thousands of men with a few hundred. So is there something I've missed or is it just a plot hole?


I don't remember exactly what the deal was, but you could assume pretty easily that Frey held back on giving most of his army to Robb because he's a slippery ****. It is kind of a hole brought in for no reason though, since in the books Robb needs to cross so he can take back the north and they changed that for no reason into him wanting to attack Casterley Rock while their homeland is being destroyed.



Droidsteel said:


> 2. Another possible minor plot hole. Why doesn't Theon guess straight away where he's being kept? He should know what the Bolton's banner is, (a flayed man on a sorta cross thing) and he is being tortured one the _exact same_ thing as the man on their banner is... Why did he think the Karstarks had him?


It's probably pretty standard torture equipment, and Theon's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. As shown by him initially guessing that he was in Deepwood Motte, like Ramsay had told him.



Droidsteel said:


> 3. Not a plot hole this time, just a think I'm not sure about. Where exactly are Jamie and Brieanne at the moment? Because I assumed that they were at the Bolton's main castle/keep/thingy where Theon is, but reading through the first book I noticed that Robb said he was going to post Roose Bolton at some other castle they passed on the way to the neck. So are they at the place Rob posted Roose Bolton? The show hasn't mention or if it had I missed it. I mean they were heading south... were they in another place that the Boltons advanced to?? I'm just confused as to were Jamie and Brianne are right now...


Jaime and Brienne are at Harrenhal (currently occupied by Roose Bolton, the same place Arya was for most of last season). House Bolton's seat is way up north, past the Twins.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> Ok, reviving this thread because I have a few questions i'm curious about, maybe some book readers (or show watchers who are more perceptive than me) can answer.
> 
> 1. I'm wondering weather this is a plot hole or not, but when Robb passed the twins in season 1 (I think it was season 1) someone mentioned that Walder Frey was giving him most of his forces except a few hundred...
> 
> Now with the whole attack casterly rock plan, he wants to get the help of Walder Frey's army, which I thought he kinda _already had._ Unless he means the few hundred men left, which doesn't make sense either because he'd be trying to replace thousands of men with a few hundred. So is there something I've missed or is it just a plot hole?


I'm not sure about the name, but wasn't the frey daughter who were supposed to marry robb in exchange of frey's support in the war? when robb married some other woman frey got mad.


----------



## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

^ cheers for the answers guys


----------



## Xtraneous (Oct 18, 2011)

Finally starting season 3... lol. D:


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Xtraneous said:


> Finally starting season 3... lol. D:


You're in for a treat, it's the best season yet


----------



## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

just started watching this show. Pretty good so far. Lots of tits too.


----------



## Lazarusx (Apr 14, 2013)

I wish i could erase my memory and watch this all again from season 1. By far one of the best tv series i have ever seen..

Eagerly awaiting tomorrow's episode


----------



## GreenRoom (Jan 28, 2012)

I wish the next book would hurry up and get written. It's such a good tv series.


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## ShadyGFX (Jul 18, 2012)

I loved the scene where they were climbing the wall, it was really intense. Can't wait to watch the new episode.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Well there will be certain scenes I will be watching again.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Last episode... the ending 

Not going to spoil for anyone who hasn't watched it yet, but


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Just finished watching. The last scene was plenty awesome! Jaime is turning out to be a really likeable character. I knew there had to be good in him, only took Brienne and some trouble to make it show itself to us. lol.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

I always thought it was funny how Jaime prides himself on keeping Aerys's secrets because he's a knight of the Kingsguard... and then spends a whole book telling every single person he meets that he stopped him from burning King's Landing to the ground. Making Jaime part of his guard was the worst mistake Aerys made by far, and he did everything imaginable wrong.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

episode 07 from season 3 was writen by the autor of the book, It was really good. I loved the ending scene


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

ManuelVinn said:


> episode 07 from season 3 was writen by the autor of the book, It was really good. I loved the ending scene


That's very strange. I (and everyone else who read the books) thought he would have chosen another episode. Maybe he doesn't have carte blanche to choose an episode.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Luna Sea said:


> That's very strange. I (and everyone else who read the books) thought he would have chosen another episode. Maybe he doesn't have carte blanche to choose an episode.


I don't know if he can chose or not.Probably not, there are contracts and agenda's to fullfill behind television. I, as a non-reader of the books think it was a key episode, with great conversations and events, an excellent choice.


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

Well, this episode did include a little less of the pointless deviations from the books' plot. The only thing that really had a question mark for me was the scene with Melisandre and Gendry (how many people seriously needed a whole scene this series to spell out to them that Gendry was Robert's ******* son?); that was ****ing weird. It's also a shame that now is pretty much the last chance to introduce Strong Belwas, and it's very clear that his awesome moment in the upcoming episodes has simply been written out because he was too fun and not a bland enough character to make the cut.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

I enjoyed the gendry's scene.I Have no idea who strong belvas is.
Jaime scene with the bear was epic. I can't stop watching it.
There is also really interesting scenes like Tywin x joffrey and margery x sansa.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Monroee said:


> Just finished watching. The last scene was plenty awesome! Jaime is turning out to be a really likeable character. I knew there had to be good in him, only took Brienne and some trouble to make it show itself to us. lol.


But I find it hard to understand how the Jaime who pushed a little boy out a window because the boy saw him ****ing his sister is the same Jaime who jumped into that pit to save Brienne. Has he really changed that much in so short a time?

Does he love Brienne?  That would be cute.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> But I find it hard to understand how the Jaime who pushed a little boy out a window because the boy saw him ****ing his sister is the same Jaime who jumped into that pit to save Brienne. Has he really changed that much in so short a time?
> 
> Does he love Brienne?  That would be cute.


To be fair I think it's been a good few years since he pushed bran out the window. I think even the first book alone spans over a year because Rickon is mentiond to be 3 at the beginning and 4 near the end.

I could be wrong though


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## Luna Sea (Apr 4, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> But I find it hard to understand how the Jaime who pushed a little boy out a window because the boy saw him ****ing his sister is the same Jaime who jumped into that pit to save Brienne. Has he really changed that much in so short a time?
> 
> Does he love Brienne?  That would be cute.


I think the point is that deep down Jaime's always been a good guy, but he's been forced into being a **** by his love for Cersei and by his duty to the Mad King and his father.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

AngelClare said:


> But I find it hard to understand how the Jaime who pushed a little boy out a window because the boy saw him ****ing his sister is the same Jaime who jumped into that pit to save Brienne. Has he really changed that much in so short a time?
> 
> Does he love Brienne?  That would be cute.


I think Droidsteel is right, it's been at least a year since that happened, probably more than one year. It didn't really seem to me as though it was that much of an immediate jump from bad Jaime to good Jaime. He's been through a lot that kinda tore down his attitude of entitlement and selfishness. And there's something between the relationship of Jaime and Brienne that seemed to really affect him. I don't know if they are "in love" per se lol, but there is definitely a relationship between them now.

When he talked of what really happened when he killed the Mad King to her, it showed more of who he really is underneath. Instead of telling everyone what really happened, he just put on this haughty act and let everyone call him Kingslayer. Perhaps his pride, haughtiness and such was a kind of defense mechanism on his part.

And, I'm just throwing this out there, I think being away from Cersei probably helped him become more empathetic. I could see how her harsh nature could just reinforce it in him. All just personal interpretation on my part tho.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

jamie is not different from when he throw brann of the window. Why can't people understand that nobody is entirely good nor entirely evil?


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Question: Why is Daenerys' last name Stormborn instead of using Targaryen? In the book it says she was born in a storm, but why take that as a last name?


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Thought I'd share this:


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Monroee said:


> Question: Why is Daenerys' last name Stormborn instead of using Targaryen? In the book it says she was born in a storm, but why take that as a last name?


Targaryen is still her last name. I think Stormborn is like a nickname. Makes her seem more dangerous or something.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

fanatic203 said:


> Targaryen is still her last name. I think Stormborn is like a nickname. Makes her seem more dangerous or something.


Yeah, that's what I was just assuming.. Personally I think Daenerys Targaryen sounds cooler than Stormborn. The name Targaryen should already give people fear, so I don't see the need for a nickname. In the last ep, I thought it was cool when they introduced her with all her fancy titles though:b.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

second sons was good, tyrion marriage was the best part


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

^ Agreed, maybe the best episode of the season. Certainly the best episode of the second half of the season so far, especially the end.

Did anyone else think that Melissandra and Gendry were going to make another shadow baby thing? Because I did. 

I have a prediction to make about that scene though (so people up to date on the books feel free to start laughing at how wrong I am or gasping at my skills of deduction now) but I reckon Robb, Joffrey and Balon are all going to die before the end of the season. I actually thought they were going to die that very episode once their names got listed by Stannis, Honestly for the whole wedding party scene I was expecting Joffery to get a stab to the heart from some shadow creature.

I don't really want to be right though. I don't give a flying toss about Balon, Joffery I want to see dead but if he dies this way it'll seem really... sympathetic. And Robb i don't want to die at all 

Don't tell me weather i'm right or wrong though. Not even any hints.


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## Arya481 (Dec 5, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> ^ Agreed, maybe the best episode of the season. Certainly the best episode of the second half of the season so far, especially the end.
> 
> Did anyone else think that Melissandra and Gendry were going to make another shadow baby thing? Because I did.
> 
> ...


I just finished watching Second Sons. The series is getting better and better! I thought Melisandre and Gendry are gonna make a shadow baby too!  I don't know why, I'm starting to hate Melisandre as the series progresses.

I hope Robb Stark don't die too :| He's one of my favourite characters in the series.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> ^ Agreed, maybe the best episode of the season. Certainly the best episode of the second half of the season so far, especially the end.
> 
> Did anyone else think that Melissandra and Gendry were going to make another shadow baby thing? Because I did.
> 
> ...


in my opinion the bear and the maiden fair was the best episode.

I was expecting melisandra would make another baby, yes. 
I liked stannis in this episode, he was very reasonable with davos and seemed a good person. no way I want to see joffrey die, he is one of the most interesting parts of GOT. robb I don't care.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

This whole Melisandre and Gendry plotline never happened in the books, so we book-readers don't know what's going to happen any more than non-book-readers :b. My immediate thought was also they were making another shadow baby, but maybe that's too obvious so that's not really what's going on :sus

Drunk Tyrion at the wedding was soooo awesome! I was watching it in public, and I was snorting trying to hold in my laughter :blush. His "wooden cock" threat was the best!

Also I was glad to see there were two hints to the timeline in this episode: Dany said a year ago, she had no dragons, so it's been at least a year since the end of season 1. And Sansa said she was 14, when in season 1 episode 1, she said she was 13, so it's been less than two years since the beginning of season 1. That's less time than I thought had passed.


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## ShadyGFX (Jul 18, 2012)

Did Samwell leave the dragonglass behind after he killed the white-walker?


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

^ Yes I think so, probably dropped it due to the blind panic he was in.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Droidsteel said:


> I don't really want to be right though. I don't give a flying toss about Balon, Joffery I want to see dead but if he dies this way it'll seem really... sympathetic. And Robb i don't want to die at all


I don't want Robb to die either, he didn't really do much yet, I want to see him have more of an impact on the story before any possible death. And Joffrey.. I want to see someone kill him, not some sort of shadow monster, lol. I don't want anything to happen to Gendry either, I want to see more of him.

The last scene was pretty cool, guess Sam isn't as cowardly as he thought he was. I hadn't realized that it was the dragonglass dagger until you guys said it, I had forgotten during all the action. So I'm guessing that's the secret for killing them.

I was hoping we'd see how Theon is faring this episode lol, since we left him in quite the cringe-worthy situation.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

I sat down today, ready to load and watch the next episode with my lunch, only to find out that they skipped this week. My face immediately fell, disappointed.


----------



## mfd (May 5, 2013)

Monroee said:


> I sat down today, ready to load and watch the next episode with my lunch, only to find out that they skipped this week. My face immediately fell, disappointed.


Same here. Someone said it was held off because of Memorial Day? We don't even have that here! HBO Canada should know that.

It is known.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

mfd said:


> Same here. Someone said it was held off because of Memorial Day? We don't even have that here! HBO Canada should know that.


Well, they can't air it for you and not the US, because then it would be all screwed up, the US would be one episode behind lol. But, really, I don't see Memorial Day as being significant enough to warrant them skipping a week. I didn't foresee this at all. So disappointing, I was all excited for the next episode.



> It is known.


Hehe.


----------



## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Yep. No GOT ruined the weekend for me.


----------



## regimes (Aug 24, 2011)

I. Love. Got.


----------



## moomoomilk (May 25, 2013)

fanatic203 said:


> Thought I'd share this:


This is just amazing and wonderful. I keep going back to this post just so I can laugh like a giddy school girl. Thank you for posting this!!

Jon Snow, a Leafs fan... Never would have thought.


----------



## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Getting in before today's episode. Don't click spoiler if you haven't read the books.

[spoiler=yo non book readers don't click]been waiting for this moment all season. Hope to see some massive reactions on the internet over this. Hopefully we get to see some Robbwind can't wait to see this all play out on screen. [/spoiler]


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

[spoiler=spoilers for tonight]i can't describe how excited i am.

i stg they better not **** it up.
[/spoiler]


----------



## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

ShadyGFX said:


> Did Samwell leave the dragonglass behind after he killed the white-walker?


i didn't notice but it was pointed out to me and i'm thinking he has more, unless he only kept one for himself, because when he found it at the end of season 2 there was a whole bunch.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

WTF?!!!


----------



## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

heh



(i still haven't watched it =/)


----------



## ThingsRlookingUp (Aug 13, 2012)

I thought it was well done. Some key differences from the book but shock value was still the same. Epic scene.


----------



## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Not surprised to see Game of Thrones at the top of the entertainment subforum tonight.

I agree with ThingsRlookingUp :yes


----------



## Lazarusx (Apr 14, 2013)

Well that episode was a great example of why i continue to watch this incredible show.


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

Needing to read book 5 before the next few eps i think


----------



## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Starting to like Roose a bit more now. Poor Ygritte how could Jon leave her behind.Oh and Rickon got to say a couple of lines for once. Now time to rewatch the episode.










[spoiler=yo non book readers don't click]We better see some of this next episode







[/spoiler]


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## zraktor (Jan 27, 2013)

no. not the spoiler. arrh


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

really excellent episode. the climax of the red wedding isn't as good as it is in my head haha but the build-up was really really great.
also edmure, i kind of love him even if he's a bit of a fool, that floppy fish. also glad the blackfish wasn't killed (maybe he swam away) since i assume this means he'll still be in the show.


----------



## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

zraktor said:


> no. not the spoiler. arrh


"_No, not my hair. Ned loves my hair._" =(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((


----------



## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

I just watched this week's episode and **** WALDER FREY AND ROOSE BOLTON I ****ING HOPE ARYA ****ING ****S THEM UP THE ARSE WITH ****ING NEEDLE SO HARD IT COMES OUT THEIR ****ING MOUTHS

crycrycrycry:cry

Now the Starks are pretty much ****ed except for a few refugee children in the wilderness... literally every other 'king' on this show is such a total prick I don't want to root for ANY of 'em... Except maybe danny, but she's probably years away from invading.

Well... felt good to get that out :blank

All that aside, my prediction was partially right! (I wish it was joffery or balon that died first though...) and can anyone explain how grey worm, jorah and that other guy took Yunki alone?


----------



## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

I think George RR Martin is a genius but I don't like plots like this. Yes, you can tell stories where terrible things happen to good people. But you only get to do that once in your story. Otherwise it feels like the author is fiendishly creating characters that you love and then killing them off just to shock and disturb you. 


Yes, in real life people die like this but real life does not make for good stories. A story needs a hero. I don't know who is the hero anymore? Arya? 

It also seems like we're losing good characters and gaining more evil characters like the Bolton's.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I think George RR Martin is a genius but I don't like plots like this. *Yes, you can tell stories where terrible things happen to good people. But you only get to do that once in your story.* Otherwise it feels like the author is fiendishly creating characters that you love and then killing them off just to shock and disturb you.
> 
> Yes, in real life people die like this but real life does not make for good stories. A story needs a hero. I don't know who is the hero anymore? Arya?
> 
> It also seems like we're losing good characters and gaining more evil characters like the Bolton's.


So in any book, tv, film or game series you can only every kill off ONE good guy?


----------



## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Droidsteel said:


> So in any book, tv, film or game series you can only every kill off ONE good guy?


I mean you shouldn't write a story where you introduce a hero and then kill him off, introduce another hero and then kill him off too. I don't think that makes for a good story. The reader will be reluctant to invest too much emotion in your next hero.

It's like George Lucas killing off Luke Skywalker and then focusing on Han Solo only to kill him off too. Sure stuff like that happens in real life but that's not good story telling.


----------



## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, I found an interview with Martin where he explains why he killed them off. At least I understand his thinking but I still don't agree with it.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/02/g...orge-r-r-martin-why-he-wrote-the-red-wedding/


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

It's different in the show (because Robb is played up a lot more) but there were never any hero characters, maybe in the beginning readers have the false impression that it's Ned but that changes once he's killed off. That's the reason I love GRRM's books so much, he doesn't do the conventional fantasy tropes, he has a book of grey characters (rather than either all good or all evil.... except maybe for ppl like the Boltons), and just like in real life how **** doesn't work out, bad things happen to the "good guys".


I like reading something that rips my heart out and is painful to read, but I can understand that it's not for everyone and that readers have different expectations.


Edited to add:
The story really isn't about the kings and it isn't meant to be. It's why no kings have any POVs. 

(I'm not hating any anyone's interpretation or opinion on the books btw, it's different for everyone.)

Also, I can't see him wanting Robb as the hero because the books are very much anti-war but the hero is the one who rebels and starts an unnecessary war?
idk if we're still talking about the books or the tv show.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

and all what he had to do was marrying a hot girl.

Did the guy who married was killed too?


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)




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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

ManuelVinn said:


> and all what he had to do was marrying a hot girl.
> 
> Did the guy who married was killed too?


No Edmure wasn't killed, he was busy consummating the marriage and didn't notice what was going on outside his room haha.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Oh my gods. I was _completely_ shocked, I ain't gonna lie. I just got done watching it. And I actually started to cry a little. I was begging for them to survive, at least Robb, or at least Catelyn - but no, they are all gone.  I felt so horrifically bad for Cat.

It does feel bad to lose characters that you were routing for, ones that you felt were moral and good. I'm not someone who needs a goodie-goodie hero to watch it, though, the show is amazing, no doubt, and all the characters are very multi-faceted (and like was said, everyone has a "grey" character, not purely good or evil). To be honest, I knew to expect the unexpected ever since Ned's death. When that happened, (when I was screaming my head off in bloody shock I mean), it set the stage for the show, and pretty much told us all that _no one_ is safe, and in this type of environment, deaths can happen quick as lightening.

I guess I just get a bit frustrated that characters that I really like get killed off, while characters I find beyond boring, such as Bran, get to carry on. No offense to those that like Bran, perhaps he gets more exciting or important later on, but he's just a snore fest for me both in the books and the show.

On to other scenes: I felt really sad when Jon abandoned Ygritte. I'm hoping they get together again. She was on his side, ready to go with him, so it just was really sad when she didn't get to escape with him. And at Yunkai, I was a bit confused, I didn't see how they took the city, the guards just "surrendered"? Why? Did Daario and Jorah offer them freedom or something if they surrendered? I was kind of hoping that they would get captured, since it would create a little "bump" in Dany's flawless conquest so far.

I'm just so shocked right now, haha, I can't get over what just happened. I really hope Arya gets to kill some fcking traitors in the future. She's the last Stark that I have invested interest in now..

Oh, and was anyone else a little bothered that Edmure lucked out and got a gorgeous bride? Goes to show that beauty really is the only thing that matters, and just makes it all seem so shallow.. well.. Edmure did seem pretty damn shallow anyways, but it would have been better if he got stuck with an "ugly" one, just to make it more realistic.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

nothing to fear said:


> No Edmure wasn't killed, he was busy consummating the marriage and didn't notice what was going on outside his room haha.


a lucky one?


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Monroee said:


> Oh my gods. I was _completely_ shocked, I ain't gonna lie. I just got done watching it. And I actually started to cry a little. I was begging for them to survive, at least Robb, or at least Catelyn - but no, they are all gone.  I felt so horrifically bad for Cat.
> 
> It does feel bad to lose characters that you were routing for, ones that you felt were moral and good. I'm not someone who needs a goodie-goodie hero to watch it, though, the show is amazing, no doubt, and all the characters are very multi-faceted (and like was said, everyone has a "grey" character, not purely good or evil). To be honest, I knew to expect the unexpected ever since Ned's death. When that happened, (when I was screaming my head off in bloody shock I mean), it set the stage for the show, and pretty much told us all that _no one_ is safe, and in this type of environment, deaths can happen quick as lightening.
> 
> ...


I like this show specially because it is real. Robb was selfish and he payed for this, he wanted to be king but didn't want to make a litlle sacrifice of marrying a girl to gain power, he had given his word. You can't do whatever you want always and expect other people to please your wishes and behave in your benefit, this is childish. Although I liked robb.

Jon was really heartless, I don't know what he was planning or thinking, maybe he has a plan to ygritte.

the yunkai was taked because the ones protecting it were slaves, once they saw they were being attacked and killed they gave up and run away I guess.

Edmure was funny, of course appearence is important, I don't see the problem in that.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

I read the interview with the author, and he does make a lot of sense in it. I can't believe that he said he lost a lot of readers after it. I don't understand that. It's upsetting yes, but it's stuff like this that make it worth reading/watching. If it was all nice and predictable then what would be the point, where would be the suspense and excitement? There's no way I'd stop reading/watching after this, I'm dying to know what happens now.

ManuelVinn - I definitely agree with you about Robb. I did feel that him marrying this other girl just for love was very selfish of him, and childish. That's not what a responsible king would do, and it showed his naivety, definitely.

With Edmure, I was upset that he got a beautiful girl because I wanted it to be realistic. 99% of his daughters were supposedly ugly, and the fact that he had to marry an ugly girl despite his shallowness was what made it somewhat interesting. It's a rough environment in this world, where people die at a drop of a pin, and also, people have to wed ugly women in arranged marriages. Having a beautiful girl appear gives it an unrealistic and "oh, wasn't he quite lucky.." feeling, which I personally didn't like. BUT - the slaughter made up for the "oh, isn't this just beautiful and wonderful!" scenario. lol.

Edit: Oh, and with Jon, I'm assuming that him running was simply a heat of the moment decision? I don't think he made an official plan to leave Ygritte behind. He was just panicking and concerned with getting the hell out of there. I think he will regret it once the situation is over.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

catalyn had said that one of the frey's girls were pretty. I find it really common that some people have ugly parents but are pretty themselves. I have seen it before.

Yrgitte was going to fight beside jon against her people, but jon pushed her to avoid her action. He was like: ''I am the only one who will be killed if it happens, if I escape you will not be killed if you don't fight against your people''


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

The Red Wedding was actually based on a historical event, if that helps explain things.http://iainthepict.blogspot.com/2011/11/earl-of-douglas-and-black-dinner.html


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

Crystalline said:


> The Red Wedding was actually based on a historical event, if that helps explain things.http://iainthepict.blogspot.com/2011/11/earl-of-douglas-and-black-dinner.html


I wonder if the middle ages were similar to game of thrones


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Monroee said:


> With Edmure, I was upset that he got a beautiful girl because I wanted it to be realistic. 99% of his daughters were supposedly ugly, and the fact that he had to marry an ugly girl despite his shallowness was what made it somewhat interesting.


I'm not clear about that part. It seems to me that Edmure would have to die too if he wasn't a part of the plot. Why would an evil douche like Walder Frey take the chance that Edmure would avenge the killing of his kinsman?

About the "ugly" daughters. I always wonder what it must be to win the part of one of the ugly daughters. Imagine hearing, "you look perfect for the part of one of the ugly daughters."

But I thought a couple of them weren't bad looking. They just look bad compared to that stunningly beautiful woman Robb married. Well I hope it was worth it Robb.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

I think Walder kept him alive because Edmure is lord of Riverrun/House Tully, one of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms, and the Freys are now joined with them. They still have him as a hostage and maybe if Roslin gets pregnant, his heir too.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

nothing to fear said:


> I think Walder kept him alive because Edmure is lord of Riverrun/House Tully, one of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms, and the Freys are now joined with them. They still have him as a hostage and maybe if Roslin gets pregnant, his heir too.


But Catelyn Stark is a Tully. She's probably a higher ranking Tully than Edmure because she was essentially the queen of the north as Ned's wife and mother to the the kind of the north. To me it makes no sense to kill Catelyn and not Edmure too. Catelyn would be an even better hostage.

I'm also wondering why Stannis named Robb and Balon Greyjoy instead of his greatest threat Tywin.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I mean you shouldn't write a story where you introduce a hero and then kill him off, introduce another hero and then kill him off too. I don't think that makes for a good story. The reader will be reluctant to invest too much emotion in your next hero.
> 
> It's like George Lucas killing off Luke Skywalker and then focusing on Han Solo only to kill him off too. Sure stuff like that happens in real life but that's not good story telling.


Good point. Good thing I don't consider Robb the hero. I will miss him though


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

AngelClare said:


> But Catelyn Stark is a Tully. She's probably a higher ranking Tully than Edmure because she was essentially the queen of the north as Ned's wife and mother to the the kind of the north. To me it makes no sense to kill Catelyn and not Edmure too. Catelyn would be an even better hostage.


No, Edmure is the lord of Riverrun after their father died. Catelyn is a woman, so she can't inherit the Tully holdings unless there were no men left to inherit. She can't inherit the North either, since she's not a Stark by birth. Sansa is now the heiress of the North, as far as anyone knows, because they don't know Bran and Rickon are alive. Also, Walder Frey probably holds more of a grudge against Catelyn than Edmure, as an accomplice to Robb's betrayal.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

AngelClare said:


> About the "ugly" daughters. I always wonder what it must be to win the part of one of the ugly daughters. Imagine hearing, "you look perfect for the part of one of the ugly daughters."


lol, I'm sure most of those girls aren't truly as ugly as they appear, the make-up artists know how to make one appear much worse than they actually are for the show. :b But I often feel that for all the characters that are supposed to be ugly, I feel bad for the actors chosen for the parts haha, but, a part in GoT is good for the resume..


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

AngelClare said:


> Yes, in real life people die like this but real life does not make for good stories.


Amen to that. I'm still upset that Ned died, but...



AngelClare said:


> A story needs a hero. I don't know who is the hero anymore? Arya?


...Robb was never the hero. He just didn't have the level of... awesome, for lack of a better word, and he was never a POV character. The closest thing to a hero since Ned died has been Tyrion.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

fanatic203 said:


> Amen to that. I'm still upset that Ned died, but...
> 
> ...Robb was never the hero. He just didn't have the level of... awesome, for lack of a better word, and he was never a POV character. The closest thing to a hero since Ned died has been Tyrion.


Huh? He had a giant wolf at his side he used in battle. How is that not awesome?

Also his quest to avenge his father's death is a heroic quest. When Ned died he became the hero. Sansa was waiting for her hero brother to come with his wolf and save her.


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## The Silent 1 (Aug 21, 2011)

AngelClare said:


> But Catelyn Stark is a Tully. She's probably a higher ranking Tully than Edmure because she was essentially the queen of the north as Ned's wife and mother to the the kind of the north. To me it makes no sense to kill Catelyn and not Edmure too. Catelyn would be an even better hostage.
> 
> I'm also wondering why Stannis named Robb and Balon Greyjoy instead of his greatest threat Tywin.


He named Robb and Balon Greyjoy because they had both declared themselves kings, when there should be only one ruler over Westeros. From his point of view, they were thieves who needed to be served justice. Naming Tywin instead of Joffery probably would have been better though since even though Joffery is the king, Tywin is the real power behind the throne. Maybe the spell that Melissandre cast only allowed him to name the usurpers.



AngelClare said:


> Huh? He had a giant wolf at his side he used in battle. How is that not awesome?
> 
> Also his quest to avenge his father's death is a heroic quest. When Ned died he became the hero. Sansa was waiting for her hero brother to come with his wolf and save her.


I agree, Robb was the closest thing this story had to a hero. Of the people vying for the throne, he was easily the most noble. He wasn't power hungry or looking to go on a conquest, he just wanted to avenge his father and protect his family and kingdom.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

AngelClare said:


> Huh? He had a giant wolf at his side he used in battle. How is that not awesome?
> 
> Also his quest to avenge his father's death is a heroic quest. When Ned died he became the hero. Sansa was waiting for her hero brother to come with his wolf and save her.


I guess what I mean is he's boring, IMO, in terms of his personality, too boring to be a hero. And in terms of his story, avenging one's father's death is kind of a boring story, and if all Sansa had to do was wait to be saved, that would also be boring. But I guess you could see it differently from just watching the show. In the show you see more of him, almost like he becomes a POV character, so it's easier to sympathize with him.


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## SilentWitness (Dec 27, 2009)

:lol :shock


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## ThingsRlookingUp (Aug 13, 2012)

Interesting how most viewers of only the show consider Robb more of a "hero" and Jon as selfish for leaving Ygritte. Maybe it is because of the focus on the show and we don't really see what's going on in their heads as much. Vows are such a big force on the GoT word, a man is only as good as his word.

Ned was honorable to a fault. Robb broke his vows over love which could be viewed as very selfish since he put his desires over the good of everyone in the north. Jon is actually more like Ned, he kept his vows to the nights watch as best as he could and even chose to leave his love in order to warn his brothers.

I love that all the characters on the show has their flaws. Good guys like Robb can make huge mistakes and "bad" guys like Jamie or even Tywin can have traits that are redeeming. Everyone just has their own agendas and motivations.

The Freys are only ones that are really complete scum bags with no good qualities. Breaking hosts vows, I hope they suffer


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## sansd (Mar 22, 2006)

Monroee said:


> Oh, and was anyone else a little bothered that Edmure lucked out and got a gorgeous bride? Goes to show that beauty really is the only thing that matters, and just makes it all seem so shallow.. well.. Edmure did seem pretty damn shallow anyways, but it would have been better if he got stuck with an "ugly" one, just to make it more realistic.


Walder Frey thinks Robb married Talisa because she was more attractive than he expected any of the Frey daughters to be, so I think he gave Edmure the pretty daughter because of Robb, like, "See, you could have kept your oath and still gotten a pretty wife." They showed Walder giving Robb a glance just after Roslin was unveiled.


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## Lazarusx (Apr 14, 2013)

nothing to fear said:


> It's different in the show (because Robb is played up a lot more) but there were never any hero characters, maybe in the beginning readers have the false impression that it's Ned but that changes once he's killed off. That's the reason I love GRRM's books so much, he doesn't do the conventional fantasy tropes, he has a book of grey characters (rather than either all good or all evil.... except maybe for ppl like the Boltons), and just like in real life how **** doesn't work out, bad things happen to the "good guys".
> 
> I like reading something that rips my heart out and is painful to read, but I can understand that it's not for everyone and that readers have different expectations.


Totally agree!

I can't express how tired i am of conventional stories. Good/Evil Hero/Villian garbage.. it's way to simple and predictable. Game of Thrones is a complex ever-evolving world with stories intertwining at different angles and multi-dimensional characters that don't adhere to conventional archetypes of good and evil. It cover's the whole spectrum of the human condition in a fantasy setting, the manipulation, greed, honor, anger, love, pride and revenge.

It's raw to the bone which is why it's so enthralling.

Cannot wait for the finale and next season


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

carambola said:


> Walder Frey thinks Robb married Talisa because she was more attractive than he expected any of the Frey daughters to be, so I think he gave Edmure the pretty daughter because of Robb, like, "See, you could have kept your oath and still gotten a pretty wife." They showed Walder giving Robb a glance just after Roslin was unveiled.


That would make sense, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I do remember that glance now that you remind me of it.

As Robb as a hero - for the people not reading, Robb isn't a POV character that is followed in the books, so it was obvious to me that he wasn't supposed to be _the_ hero or the focus character. I like the way this series doesn't have a straight-forward hero, like was said, all the characters are multi-dimensional and all have their good attributes and bad. It's possible to support and invest emotional interest in characters on all sides of the conflict (I personally have characters that I support in all families so far, except the Freys and don't know enough of the Tyrells yet), so that really abolishes the stereotypical "good guy versus bad guy - good guy triumphs in the end". Everyone has a cause they are fighting for, so it's really unforeseeable as to who will win. To me, that's better than already knowing, by default of a defined "hero", who will win. If it was guaranteed that Robb was going to triumph in the end, I probably wouldn't be that interested in the show - him avenging his father's death is so predictable, like the author had said in that interview.

I think this story is really refreshing because of it's realism and it's lack of that traditional fantasy outline, it really is unique.


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## Arya481 (Dec 5, 2012)

SilentWitness said:


> :lol :shock


LOL!!! :lol Nice to see other's reaction to the Red Wedding. My reaction is close to that red shirt guy except I cringed and clenched my stomach when Jeyne got stabbed multiple times on her stomach  I'm gonna miss Robb and Catelyn, they are my favourite characters :| The song they played before the slaughter is kind of creepy...


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Eunice27 said:


> My reaction is close to that red shirt guy


The guy that had his hand on his chest in an "oh my" way, and had his mouth gaping open? That was me too lol, punctuated by screams, and then some tears of shock shed by the end.


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

Well that's not quite how I expected to see the fall of the Robb & his mother but I must say it was orchestrated to perfection


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

^the reactions are freakin' brilliant! Makes me feel normal for not freaking out as much as some of them did 

I just sort of gawped and said 'no,no,no,no,no!' out loud, and 'not here! not yet!' because I already predicted Robb's death. I thought it would come at least a season from now though, and possibly after he had dealt with tywin.

I'm amazed at how many negative reactions this episode has gotten to be honest, not here but on other sites... I think it was one of the best pieces of TV I have seen personally. A lot of people have been commenting on how 'tasteless' and brutal 'for the sake of it' the scene was:

Taken from a NY news message bored:



> Turretgunner7 hours ago
> Thanks. I will take your advice. I'm afraid my blood doesn't run quite as cold as yours. That was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen on television or in movies. The repeated stabbing in the stomach of a woman several months pregnant was beyond sickening. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are mentally unstable if they thought that was entertaining in any way, shape or form. And ss far as how close the so-called "Red Wedding" scene followed the book, I couldn't care less. I know that that there are those fans who will applaud the boldness of what was shown last night and praise the artistic quality of the decision to depict such incredible carnage involving several of the main characters. But I think there is such a thing as crossing then line and GOT did so with this episode. Fictional or not, I have have enough of the bloodlust. What happens next in this show suddenly holds no interest for me. While the producers may have succeeded in reducing their budget considerably by butchering so many regulars at once, they lost me as a fan.


I also saw this one YouTube video review saying it was dissapointing because 'the hero' was killed not by his nemesis Tywin, who wasn't even present during Robb's demise. He considered it to be anti-climactic.

All I was thinking was 'that's _exactly_ the point! Robb expected to avenge his father and defeat the lannisters and ended up dead before he could even strike, and he didn't even get the dignity of being offed by a lannister in a battle, just stabbed in the back by an traitor and out-witted by an old man.

It wasn't suppose to be a dying heroic last stand, it was suppose to be a humiliating ruthless crushing of house stark. And that's _exactly_ what the scene achieved.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

ThingsRlookingUp said:


> Interesting how most viewers of only the show consider Robb more of a "hero" and Jon as selfish for leaving Ygritte. Maybe it is because of the focus on the show and we don't really see what's going on in their heads as much. Vows are such a big force on the GoT word, a man is only as good as his word.
> 
> Ned was honorable to a fault. Robb broke his vows over love which could be viewed as very selfish since he put his desires over the good of everyone in the north. Jon is actually more like Ned, he kept his vows to the nights watch as best as he could and even chose to leave his love in order to warn his brothers.
> 
> ...


I agree (except I don't think Tywin has a redeeming bone in his body!). Also I saw some of the Freys as innocent since I don't think they were all clued in on the plans (that would be risky) after all there are so many of them, and Fat Walda Frey is pretty funny.

About Jon... I don't fault him that much or see him as a jerk for leaving since he knew he never belonged there, held his Night's Watch vows seriously, and Ygritte wanting him to kill the innocent old man solidified it in a way because it completely goes against everything he believes in, both personally and from the Night's Watch. How it played out in the books kind of affected how I see it though. I really loved that part in the show but in the books the differences were much more... gut-wrenching, like you feel so much for Jon and the ****ed up situation and how hard it was for him. [Spoiler=book spoiler]being shot in the leg by Ygritte, but I think they'll include that in some way when they meet again.
[/Spoiler] One of my favourite Jon chapters.


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## Arya481 (Dec 5, 2012)

Monroee said:


> The guy that had his hand on his chest in an "oh my" way, and had his mouth gaping open? That was me too lol, punctuated by screams, and then some tears of shock shed by the end.


Yeah, that's the guy, lol.



Droidsteel said:


> I'm amazed at how many negative reactions this episode has gotten to be honest, not here but on other sites... I think it was one of the best pieces of TV I have seen personally. A lot of people have been commenting on how 'tasteless' and brutal 'for the sake of it' the scene was:
> 
> Turretgunner7 hours ago
> Thanks. I will take your advice. I'm afraid my blood doesn't run quite as cold as yours. That was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen on television or in movies. The repeated stabbing in the stomach of a woman several months pregnant was beyond sickening. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are mentally unstable if they thought that was entertaining in any way, shape or form. And ss far as how close the so-called "Red Wedding" scene followed the book, I couldn't care less. I know that that there are those fans who will applaud the boldness of what was shown last night and praise the artistic quality of the decision to depict such incredible carnage involving several of the main characters. But I think there is such a thing as crossing then line and GOT did so with this episode. Fictional or not, I have have enough of the bloodlust. What happens next in this show suddenly holds no interest for me. While the producers may have succeeded in reducing their budget considerably by butchering so many regulars at once, they lost me as a fan.


Wow, turns out I'm not the only one who was horrified to see Jeyne got stabbed like that :sus I mean I know GoT is a violent and gory show, I really didn't expect they'll show stabbing a pregnant woman in the stomach.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Also, I liked how they depicted Bran warging especially when he did it to Hodor, how he didn't seem well when it happened. I wasn't sure how they were going to show it. I liked that they made sure that the others were like "WTF?" because warging a human is actually really horrible and considered an abomination (although I wish Jojen would mention that it's seen as bad... maybe he will eventually). Cause when I first read the parts where he did it I thought "Wow Bran is so awesome at it!" then as he does it more [spoiler=ADWD, spoiler for info we learn], Hodor resists and clearly hates it and in the creepy prologue I think in ADWD, it basically describes it as a horrifying experience and in a way compares it to rape (the warger "forcing" himself in the person being warged). =((((((([/spoiler] So yeah it's really not cool and it's good they didn't depict it as a positive thing for Bran or an important step in his ~magical powers~. Poor Hodor.

More ADWD speculation [spoiler=more rambly speculation but spoilers I guess]For those warging reasons I'm kind of scared for Meera because Bran is majorly crushing on her and once he wanted to hug and comfort her, or have Hodor hug her? By that point he was warging Hodor whenever he needed to and turning kind of dark since he's doing what he knows is morally wrong. Him warging Hodor to give affection to Meera would be really scary for her since he might not realize just how strong Hodor is and in general it's really ****ed up her not knowing what's actually going on. Bran should know better. [/spoiler]

ANYWAY for those book-readers who find Bran's chapters boring, I think his transformation is actually really interesting and pay attention to the stories (from the Reeds) and visions etc since you learn a lot about... certain things.


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## Robot the Human (Aug 20, 2010)

Well my jaw dropped when Ned Stark was beheaded. My brain had a bit of trouble comprehending..that! I guess thanks to shows like Walking Dead, True Blood, and Boardwalk Empire I've been a bit more seasoned for last Sunday's surprises.

I'm still not over Godric's death. He was like a Jesus vampire. Such an oxymoronic character yet so beautiful and inspiring. :cry

They should seriously have a warning label on shows these days. Probably not so great for the blood pressure. My reaction in my head was mostly "damnit, I really liked all these guys. The baby was going to be so awesome grown up!. I wonder if someone will be angry enough to try and rewrite the entire story in their own way.."

I still think that the death of Charlie Cox's character in Boardwalk Empire, bothered me more. That also helped me not go super insane with the Red Wedding turnout.


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

I just finished Book 5 (was too busy with projects to start it but I had read 1-4 before) and I have to say I'm looking forward to how the directors move the story along. Gets only more epic from here.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Interesting fact, the Red Wedding was based on two events from Scottish history:

"The Red Wedding is based on a couple real events from Scottish history. One was a case called The Black Dinner. The king of Scotland was fighting the Black Douglas clan. He reached out to make peace. He offered the young Earl of Douglas safe passage. He came to Edinburgh Castle and had a great feast. Then at the end of the feast, [the king's men] started pounding on a single drum. They brought out a covered plate and put it in front of the Earl and revealed it was the head of a black boar - the symbol of death. And as soon as he saw it, he knew what it meant. They dragged them out and put them to death in the courtyard. The larger instance was the Glencoe Massacre. Clan MacDonald stayed with the Campbell clan overnight and the laws of hospitality supposedly applied. But the Campbells arose and started butchering every MacDonald they could get their hands on. No matter how much I make up, there's stuff in history that's just as bad, or worse."


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

So is Sunday the season finale? This season went by so fast, I'm sad that it's almost over. Does anyone know when the next season is supposed to start up?


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## The Silent 1 (Aug 21, 2011)

Theres about a year between each season, so it'll be late march/early April of 2014 when the next season airs.

In the past they filmed from July to December, and then they need the extra months for editing, adding all of the effects like the dragons, etc before they put out the episodes.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Aw, so long.  I can understand though, the show is magnificently done and must take a lot of effort to produce.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

I haven't read any of the books after A Game of Thrones, so while I'm waiting for the next season I'll get started on A Clash of Kings 

Of course I'll probably finish it less than a week.. the first one was one of those 'couldn't put it down' types of books.


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## someguy21 (Jun 3, 2013)

I really can't wait for next season. This is easily one of my favorite shows to watch. Hopefully the season finale is awesome! RIP King of the North!


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## Crystalline (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm glad they changed Daario's appearance. He was just laughable in the books, and this version seems much more plausible.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

I wonder what is going to be the end of the season, joffrey's dead scene? or it will be mance arriving in the wall?


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Droidsteel said:


> I haven't read any of the books after A Game of Thrones, so while I'm waiting for the next season I'll get started on A Clash of Kings
> 
> Of course I'll probably finish it less than a week.. the first one was one of those 'couldn't put it down' types of books.


I'm on book 3, and man, it really is hard not to read them too fast. I'm struggling to pace myself with them. lol. I really enjoy his writing.

I thought the season finale was good, though not as exciting as the previous episode of course. We saw a lot though of what's going on with all the characters, so that was nice. I was really surprised that Ygritte shot Jon - more than once. Was she really intent on killing him? I didn't foresee that. She was obviously upset, but trying to kill him? Jeez.

Poor Theon, that's all I can say for him. And seems as though Sansa is warming up to Tyrion. It's so weird trying to see them as a couple..

And the last scene with Dany.. Just so sweet and awesome. A perfect ending scene, in my opinion.


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## zraktor (Jan 27, 2013)

my name is reek, it rhymes with geek


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## missingno (Sep 29, 2011)

Thoughts on the episode quite average certainly not one of the best ones. Dislike the direction they are going with Stannis they are making him a lot worse then what he is at the moment he seems completely unlikeable. Don't mind what they are doing with Yara(Asha) I never really liked her in both book and show but that scene and going to help Theon will help change that. Loved the Arya scene it has been a long time coming and for show only peeps Arya used that trick to escape Harrenhal in the books so it was awesome to see it in action. Also like the interaction between her and the Hound.



Monroee said:


> I'm on book 3, and man, it really is hard not to read them too fast. I'm struggling to pace myself with them. lol. I really enjoy his writing.
> 
> I thought the season finale was good, though not as exciting as the previous episode of course. We saw a lot though of what's going on with all the characters, so that was nice. I was really surprised that Ygritte shot Jon - more than once. Was she really intent on killing him? I didn't foresee that. She was obviously upset, but trying to kill him? Jeez.
> 
> ...


Going to disagree with the last part. The ending was probably the worst thing they could have done. They had a number of things they could of showed that would have been better. Once you finish book 3 there is a scene that would have been perfect for right after that ending. I get that they wanted something positive but it just didn't feel right.

Think about it Season 1 ending wow dragons, Season 2 ending wow white walkers, Season 3 ending, wow those slaves that were freed last episode are fine with it. Seems like a let down the ending and that scene doesn't exactly make people want to watch next season. It's basically a weaker version of when she got the Unsullied


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

^ Yeah, I can't comment at the moment about what I feel the show should have done, since I'm not done the book yet, I'll have to see what you mean when I get there. In the book, I'm just past the part where Dany gets the Unsullied, so I still have a lot to go.. 

I can see what you mean about the show ending on a positive note doesn't really give us that urgency to want to see more. But I personally liked it, and it makes me excited thinking that Dany is building a following, kinda gives a feeling that she truly is becoming like a queen. But, I'm curious about what's in the book now that you say that. lol.


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## ManuelVinn (Jun 14, 2012)

poor arya, I want to hug her


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

Yeah, that was a lame ending compared to the first two seasons.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Monroee said:


> But I personally liked it, and it makes me excited thinking that Dany is building a following, kinda gives a feeling that she truly is becoming like a queen. But, I'm curious about what's in the book now that you say that. lol.


Martin just wants us to start thinking that Dany is the hero now so he can brutally kill her and make us all sad. I'm not falling for it this time


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

AngelClare said:


> Martin just wants us to start thinking that Dany is the hero now so he can brutally kill her and make us all sad. I'm not falling for it this time


But, but.. she has dragons! He can't do that!

I have officially attempted to shut off my emotions just in case he decides to fck with us again. :b

And from what I see - there is no actual hero, so we shouldn't assume anyone is. Everyone is at risk for getting their throat slashed. :afr I was screaming when Jon was getting hit with arrows, I was like "no, no, don't kill him, not yeeet.", cause I obviously can't predict anything anymore when it comes to this series.


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## Meli24R (Dec 9, 2008)

I think a 10-12 episode format works best for most shows, but with Game of Thrones I think I'd like it better if there were more episodes per season because there are so many characters and story lines. I enjoyed this season and the last two episodes were great, but it feels like it all went by way too fast. 
I think I'm going to start reading the books.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

That last episode had the weakest finale scene yet, which is odd considering this season has been above and beyond the previous two seasons in terms of awsomeness 

For a second i was worried Jon Snow was going to die.. for just a second, then I thought 'nah, they couldn't kill him off so soon after Robb and Cat, if he dies it will probably be seasons away from now. If he dies at all, because I have a little theory (once again book readers can tell if i'm right or wrong to an extent) that the only characters that will be left standing at the end of the seires will be the ones who had ****ty lives to begin with such as tyrion and Jon, or ones who had ****ty in-show lives (like arya and theon) and everyone else, the ones who had great lives at the beginning (tywin, ned etc.) will all be dead.

Don't reply to this with spoilers please... or ought right say things that are going to happen like ManuelVinn did above, telling us two things that I'm guessing will happen next season 

We need a NO SPOILER disclaimer for this thread next year for season 4, am I right?


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

I think at some point Daenerys rides a dragon. Maybe Bran controls a dragon with his gift. Jon Snow becomes the heir to Winterfell. At least that's what I hope happens. But who knows? They probably all get killed by Lannisters.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I think at some point Daenerys rides a dragon. Maybe Bran controls a dragon with his gift. Jon Snow becomes the heir to Winterfell. At least that's what I hope happens. But who knows? They probably all get killed by Lannisters.


Surely jon can't be the heir to winterfell? He isn't a stark and even if he was the boltons own it now?

Personally, I reckon Jon isn't even ned's son.. I bet it will turn out that he was either king robert or prince raeghar's *******


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Question for the book readers.. I've been buying the series as I go, I bought the first 4 now, as large paperbacks, which seemed to be the main type its published in. But in the bookstore I go to, it looks like the fifth one is only in hardback. _Is_ it only in hardback? It irks me that the whole series is paperback, only to have the last one be hardback. :|


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

I never fully understood what catelyn meant when she said that none of this would have happened if she had been able to love Jon Snow. 

Is it because Jon would have led the army leaving Robb to protect Winterfell?


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## el flaco (Sep 25, 2011)

Everything is nicely set up for season 4, I just wish Daenerys would get a move on. Come on Mother of Dragons!


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> I never fully understood what catelyn meant when she said that none of this would have happened if she had been able to love Jon Snow.
> 
> Is it because Jon would have led the army leaving Robb to protect Winterfell?


I think she belived she somehow cursed her family by hating jon, but i'm not sure.


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## sansd (Mar 22, 2006)

Droidsteel said:


> I think she belived she somehow cursed her family by hating jon, but i'm not sure.


Yeah, I thought it was something like that, because she didn't follow through on the promise she made when she prayed for Jon to live. She sees what's happened as something like punishment for not holding up her end.


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## sansd (Mar 22, 2006)

Monroee said:


> Question for the book readers.. I've been buying the series as I go, I bought the first 4 now, as large paperbacks, which seemed to be the main type its published in. But in the bookstore I go to, it looks like the fifth one is only in hardback. _Is_ it only in hardback? It irks me that the whole series is paperback, only to have the last one be hardback. :|


I think it's common for books to initially be released only in hardcover (so that more money can be made off of them) and only later be released in paperback versions. The fifth book may not be old enough for a paperback release yet, considering it's been only two years and I'm sure it's currently selling very well.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

carambola said:


> I think it's common for books to initially be released only in hardcover (so that more money can be made off of them) and only later be released in paperback versions. The fifth book may not be old enough for a paperback release yet, considering it's been only two years and I'm sure it's currently selling very well.


That makes sense, thanks. I just hate having a series where the books aren't uniform. lol.


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## mooncake (Jan 29, 2008)

Monroee said:


> Question for the book readers.. I've been buying the series as I go, I bought the first 4 now, as large paperbacks, which seemed to be the main type its published in. But in the bookstore I go to, it looks like the fifth one is only in hardback. _Is_ it only in hardback? It irks me that the whole series is paperback, only to have the last one be hardback. :|


Here in the UK, the fifth book has been available for about a year now in paperback form, but split into two books. I just had a quick look on Amazon, and in the US the paperback (just the one book, it seems, for you guys) is due for release on 29th October apparently :\

Boo for the third series on TV having finished  roll on next year! I also read somewhere recently that George R. R. Martin has been making quite a bit of progress in terms of writing the next book, so fingers crossed it won't be too many years until it's released!


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## vanilla90 (Jun 22, 2010)

Love this.


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## Digital Dictator (Nov 24, 2011)

Just started third season.

Good stuff. Favorite characters are Tyrion, Arya, and The Hound. Hate Joffrey with a lot of passion.


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## Cam1 (Dec 4, 2011)

Monroee said:


> I'm on book 3, and man, it really is hard not to read them too fast. I'm struggling to pace myself with them. lol. I really enjoy his writing.


Is the series based on all 4 books or just the first? I've seen all 3 seasons of the TV show and have just started reading the first book, which I really like so far.


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## Maiq (Dec 1, 2011)

Cam1 said:


> Is the series based on all 4 books or just the first? I've seen all 3 seasons of the TV show and have just started reading the first book, which I really like so far.


Theres 5 books right now. The series pretty much is based on the books there are some changes though that you may notice. The third season didn't quite get through the entire third book though.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Cam1 said:


> Is the series based on all 4 books or just the first? I've seen all 3 seasons of the TV show and have just started reading the first book, which I really like so far.


It's based on the whole series, yeah. The third season is about half of book 3, and the next season will continue it. There's 5 books so far like was mentioned above. Although there are a few changes in the show from the books, I think it's pretty darn accurate to the books which I really like.


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## Cam1 (Dec 4, 2011)

Maiq said:


> Theres 5 books right now. The series pretty much is based on the books there are some changes though that you may notice. The third season didn't quite get through the entire third book though.





Monroee said:


> It's based on the whole series, yeah. The third season is about half of book 3, and the next season will continue it. There's 5 books so far like was mentioned above. Although there are a few changes in the show from the books, I think it's pretty darn accurate to the books which I really like.


Ah, makes me wish I had read the books before watching the series. I do love the writer's style though. Pretty easy read. It will be good though, the book is obviously much more in depth than the series.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Cam1 said:


> Ah, makes me wish I had read the books before watching the series. I do love the writer's style though. Pretty easy read. It will be good though, the book is obviously much more in depth than the series.


I only started reading after watching the second season myself. In my opinion, his writing gets better as the books go along. I'm on book 4 now and his description is really, really good, in my opinion. He paces himself a bit more than he did in the very first one. I'm in love with his style, too. It's been a long time since I last fell in love with an author's writing. A good story is one thing, but good writing is quite another that I don't come across often.


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

I hope they don't have to cut too much from book 4 and 5. 

While those certainly expand into many new settings and characters that may not be as interesting to many I do feel they do creat a more complete view of the world, it's many places and cultures.


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## Frithrika (May 19, 2013)

I've read the books and I'm currently waiting for the next season of the TV shows. There's a few changes HBO have made which I'm unhappy with, but it's still a good watch! My favorites are Tyrion, Margaery and Theon.


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## s2panda (Dec 8, 2013)

New trailer:






SOOOO EXCITED!!!


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

As a book reader I have to say those guys at HBO are such a-holes, that trailer is clearly hinting towards some things that will not happen lol.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

I've read all the books, but haven't seen the show. The books were amazing.


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

Two months is too long of a wait.


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## IveGotToast (Jan 1, 2013)

"Elia of Dorne, you raped her, you murdered her. You killed her children."

Without a doubt, that will be the highlight of season 4. Either that, or that moment in the privy. 

I'm just so excited.


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