# I don't understand existence, and noone ever will



## versikk

I just don't understand. I don't understand anything beyond what I'm biologically capable to grasp. I'm at a loss trying to explain what the universe is, what reality is, what existence is.

But maybe we aren't _supposed _to? Maybe there is no purpose to "understand" anything beyond trying to make sense of daily life and its quarrels. We humans were built and hardcoded to detect patterns in nature, thus bringing forth metaphysical concepts, and pareidolia.

If there is a creator, that creator might not _understand either_. Compare to the "turtles all the way" analogy; Who created the creator? And why? Who or what created the creator that created our creator? And so forth.

If there _isn't _a creator (and I honestly want to stop making guesses as to what's actually true, because, _we'll never find out_), maybe "understanding" is an exclusively human concept, a feat that only a member of **** sapiens can accomplish. As humans, we have eyes capable of vision, but other animal species such as horses and eagles have vastly superior vision. But all species have been given exactly what they need, in terms of vision, to accomplish what is needed to survive. Perhaps we humans can "understand" well enough to go about our daily lives, but not to grasp concepts or realities which are, as it were, unattainable for our species. Space travel and astronomy might be our very _limit _of mental strength. We have brilliant minds such as Stephen Hawking in our midst, but will we ever know more than what these minds can conceptualize? Would we , theoretically, be blessed with yet another Einstein or Hawking in say, 100 years, only 3 times smarter than those people? What would they be able to realize about the universe and help us understand? Will we eventually reach the ever-elusive godhood which is really what we as a species aspire to? Will we ever reach the heavens? Will we ever rise above being the mud-dwelling knuckle-draggers that we are and essentially always have been? Has earth reached its "peak intelligence" with the human species or will a smarter species knock us off that peg? What if we really are the most intelligent being in the entire universe?

Maybe "higher levels of being" or higher levels of intelligence do not encompass concepts such as "understanding", because what if there are just different _types of intelligence_, and not necessarily "levels of intelligence"? Perhaps intelligence itself is merely a human concept that cannot be replicated in other species and a concept/feature that does'nt apply to alleged "higher intelligences". what if a species from another planet visited us, and thought we humans were of superior intellect, just because they wouldn't be able to understand our "frequency" or "flavor" of intelligence? While we as humans would be baffled by this same species, thinking that _they are more intelligent than us_?

Will humanity ever crawl out of the primordial goo? Do we have to? Are we supposed to?

Well?


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## Bunnicula

One could spend an entire lifetime thinking about these questions, not a bad way to spend time for those that love philosophy. 

I think the best we can do with current human minds is rely on empiricism to break down all the details to basic brute facts that may not have an understandable reason "why". Our minds definitely have their limitations, but who really knows what gains might be made with quantum computing or even AI. 

As for extraterrestrial intelligence, I've heard an interesting (although crazy) theory that the reason for the Fermi Paradox - which is the probability that based on observations about our universe, it would be likely for alien life to form versus the fact that we have never knowingly encountered it). The theory states that once alien civilizations evolve to a certain level of intelligence that the most logical thing for them to do is end their existence - hence why we haven't seen any. 

I don't put much faith in that, but it's funny to think about.


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## IlIlIlIrlpoloIlIlIlI

Instead of why. Why not? Ha


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## WillYouStopDave

I can't figure out why I still poop if I stop eating.


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## Hylar

These sorts of questions cannot be understood using conceptual thought. As long as you try to 'understand', in an intellectual sense, you will always be 84,000 miles away from the truth.


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## versikk

Bunnicula said:


> The theory states that once alien civilizations evolve to a certain level of intelligence that the most logical thing for them to do is end their existence - hence why we haven't seen any.
> 
> I don't put much faith in that, but it's funny to think about.


Mind-blowing theory



Hylar said:


> These sorts of questions cannot be understood using conceptual thought. As long as you try to 'understand', in an intellectual sense, you will always be 84,000 miles away from the truth.


That's exactly what I'm saying.

We simply cannot reach outside our minds and never will be able to. Even if we had an advanced AI 1000 years in the future, we would probably not understand the insights of that AI because it's beyond our mental faculties.

Philosophy and science is a cul-de-sac, but how deep is it? We're obviously coming up with new theories constantly, but we will reach the human limit in due time. And that to me is quite frightening, and also very interesting.

the interesting aspect is that we can conceptualise that we have limits to our intelligence. But yet we cannot go thru this veil and reach what's behind. We know there's something, because there's always something bigger, better, and more intelligent, right? Some people would call that "god", but that to me is a cop-out and way too easy of an explanation. God is just a word anyhow. So what is it? Well, maybe it's nothing more than just that question, indefinitely echoing thru the minds of humans and down thru the ages. A question that cannot be answered. A bit like the answer 42 in Hitchhiker's Guide, except just the question without the answer (altho if I remember it correctly wasn't 42 the question?)

Yes, my search for truth continues, and it will never end. Using the word "god", you could say that The Search is god (I'm not religious or into metaphysical theories at all but I like to use the word "god" sometimes to signal how significant my statements are to my sense of being and my philosophy, and that I have a sort of pious reverence to the absurdity that is existence... also I like metaphors and shít). It is the lack of meaning that gives rise to religion; trying to explain the unexplainable.
We can only understand that *we do not understand*.

Personally I am somewhat struggling with this insight since I am the kind of person who maps out every piece of stimuli that goes thru my mind and wants to understand everything around me.


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## Hylar

versikk said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying.
> 
> We simply cannot reach outside our minds and never will be able to. Even if we had an advanced AI 1000 years in the future, we would probably not understand the insights of that AI because it's beyond our mental faculties.
> 
> Philosophy and science is a cul-de-sac, but how deep is it? We're obviously coming up with new theories constantly, but we will reach the human limit in due time. And that to me is quite frightening, and also very interesting.
> 
> the interesting aspect is that we can conceptualise that we have limits to our intelligence. But yet we cannot go thru this veil and reach what's behind. We know there's something, because there's always something bigger, better, and more intelligent, right? Some people would call that "god", but that to me is a cop-out and way too easy of an explanation. God is just a word anyhow. So what is it? Well, maybe it's nothing more than just that question, indefinitely echoing thru the minds of humans and down thru the ages. A question that cannot be answered. A bit like the answer 42 in Hitchhiker's Guide, except just the question without the answer (altho if I remember it correctly wasn't 42 the question?)
> 
> Yes, my search for truth continues, and it will never end. Using the word "god", you could say that The Search is god (I'm not religious or into metaphysical theories at all but I like to use the word "god" sometimes to signal how significant my statements are to my sense of being and my philosophy, and that I have a sort of pious reverence to the absurdity that is existence... also I like metaphors and shít). It is the lack of meaning that gives rise to religion; trying to explain the unexplainable.
> We can only understand that *we do not understand*.
> 
> Personally I am somewhat struggling with this insight since I am the kind of person who maps out every piece of stimuli that goes thru my mind and wants to understand everything around me.


"If you are unable to find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?" - Dogen Zenji


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## versikk

Hylar said:


> "If you are unable to find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?" - Dogen Zenji


Truth doesn't exist, the search for it is the only thing that exists. :smile2:


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## Idontgetit

Born to late to explore the earth. Born too soon to explore the galaxy. Born just in time to browse dank memes


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## Hylar

versikk said:


> Truth doesn't exist, the search for it is the only thing that exists. :smile2:


Perhaps the search is itself the truth


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## versikk

Idontgetit said:


> Born to late to explore the earth. Born too soon to explore the galaxy. Born just in time to browse dank memes


Yep



Hylar said:


> Perhaps the search is itself the truth


Yep, except, when you put it into words, the truth disappears. See? Alluding to the truth works, but pointing it out, makes it false.


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## Surly Wurly

we can probably transcend our current biology with a mixture of genetic engineering, artificial brain enhancement, and thetan stuff


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## versikk

Surly Wurly said:


> we can probably transcend our current biology with a mixture of genetic engineering, artificial brain enhancement, and thetan stuff


Your argument kinda fell flat once you mentioned thetans.


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## SplendidBob

I swear I replied to this yesterday  - but its gone now. Pretty sure I didn't post nudes.

Oh well, just ramblings I guess, no biggie.

But @versikk, you might find this article interesting re human intelligence. http://nautil.us/issue/28/2050/dont-worry-smart-machines-will-take-us-with-them



> The potential for improved human intelligence is enormous. Cognitive ability is influenced by thousands of genetic loci, each of small effect. If all were simultaneously improved, it would be possible to achieve, very roughly, about 100 standard deviations of improvement, corresponding to an IQ of over 1,000. We can't imagine what capabilities this level of intelligence represents, but we can be sure it is far beyond our own. Cognitive engineering, via direct edits to embryonic human DNA, will eventually produce individuals who are well beyond all historical figures in cognitive ability. By 2050, this process will likely have begun.


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## Hylar

versikk said:


> Yep, except, when you put it into words, the truth disappears. See? Alluding to the truth works, but pointing it out, makes it false.


Indeed: What is called truth is in fact not truth. That is why it can be called truth


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## Outlook

If you have time, I recommend reading this: http://www.iiit.ac.in/~bipin/files/Dawkins/Ethics/Wittgenstein%2C Ludwig - A Lecture on Ethics.pdf


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## livetolovetolive

why did something need to create the creator. Maybe 'it' is all there ever was or will be. Time and change and separateness may just be an illusion. All we know is that we 'are'. Maybe it is conscious and can do literally anything it wants, like create itself inside constructs to experience limits.. like universes with rules and life forms which it pours itself into to experience ignorance of its own omnipotence... us.


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## Grog

To 
Destroy , consume , destroy , reproduce , consume and destroy some more . 
Nothing to it really .


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## ugh1979

livetolovetolive said:


> why did something need to create the creator. Maybe 'it' is all there ever was or will be. Time and change and separateness may just be an illusion. All we know is that we 'are'. Maybe it is conscious and can do literally anything it wants, like create itself inside constructs to experience limits.. like universes with rules and life forms which it pours itself into to experience ignorance of its own omnipotence... us.


The challenge of the creator needing to have been created is typically given when a theist claims the universe needs a creator but their deity doesn't, which is a double standard.

Likewise, maybe the universe is all there ever was or will be, and everything just 'is'?


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## LostinReverie

Oddly enough, I spent a great deal of time yesterday pondering this same thing. Accidentally mixed my medicine and had a bad trip. It was actually only about 20 min, though, but you know, time stood still and all.


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## theotherone

i get it. i know i do from human standpoint,

n others can't stand that i am guided like this.


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