# Just managed to get some nardil - need advice



## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

After being through all the SSRI's and some TCA's without success, I finally managed to convince a doctor to let me try nardil. 

After reading many success stories of nardil, I always said that if my depression/SA became too severe again i'd be going straight for the big guns (nardil) and not waste any more time mucking around with ineffective SSRI's. Its time to blow this depression and SA out of the water. 

I'm excited and scared about nardil at the same time. The harsh side effects (especially insomnia) and possible food interactions concern me a lot. However, I'm thinking once nardil kicks in, it will probably ease my anxiety about the food restrictions right? haha. Obviously I would stick to the diet, but what concerns me is accidentally eating something you weren't aware of which has tyramine, eg at a restaurant. How do people find this? Do you get anxious whenever you eat out?

The insomnia also concerns me. I already suffer insomnia as it is, and I don't want to have to rely on benzos every night for nardil insomnia. Also what about dizziness and day time fatigue? I'm worried if this could effect me at work. Has anyone here managed to start nardil while working full time? 

Also what is the suggested starting dose? I'm thinking I should start with 15mg one day, if that is fine bump it up to 30mg in divided doses (morning and afternoon). Then perhaps 45mg after a few days? 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## upndownboi (Oct 7, 2010)

the simple answer would be to avoid restaurant food, at least in the beginning, or if thats not realistic to eat small amounts.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> After being through all the SSRI's and some TCA's without success, I finally managed to convince a doctor to let me try nardil.
> 
> After reading many success stories of nardil, I always said that if my depression/SA became too severe again i'd be going straight for the big guns (nardil) and not waste any more time mucking around with ineffective SSRI's. Its time to blow this depression and SA out of the water.
> 
> ...


Hey pal!! I understand just how you feel; SSRIS, TCAs are merely crap. You did the right thing to start Nardil. And you've already crossed the hardest mile of the journey, getting your doc to prescribe Nardil (big guns - well said you're right). Excited? thats great but there's really nothing to get scared about being on the drug.. but the side effects for the benefits are like trading 50 cents for a dollar, more than worth it. Insomnia and every other side effect's got really super ways to be dealt with, successfully. You don't have to load your liver with a bunch of other drugs either, to overcome the side effects. Most of them like constipaion, dizziness etc... there are drugless ways to handle 'em real well.

You just have to get on the internet and spend some time searching for food stuff to avoid print them out and stick them all round your house until you know them by heart. Its not a huge list to memorize..even a kid can do it. For insomnia - I fortunately never have this problem.. But I hear the best for it is UNISOM pills - harmless, pregnant women take it, works great no benzos needed. I work full time; and pretty sure everyone on Nardil do too. Check out the thread Nardil Rocks - Part 1 & 2 man.. Got answers for every one of of your questions there. Good Luck.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

It could take some time before you notice anything positive. It took a couple of months for Nardil to work for me. Initially, I'd have weeks where I felt horrible and didn't want to get out of bed. Your doctor should have a plan for you on a starting dosage and when to increase it. I started with 15mg, and then every 1-2 weeks went up another 15mg. I think upping it every few days is going too quickly.

Insomnia is the main bad side effect for me. I usually can sleep for only 3 hours naps. Much of the positive benefit is lost, when I feel so sleepy all of the time. The other bad side effect is weight gain.

I recommend reading this PDF, which goes in great detail about how much tyramine is in certain foods. I tend to follow this guide to be on the safe side. I found the diet to be pretty easy to follow. The only foods I can say that I've really given up is cheese, bacon (not sure if it's allowed), and maybe a few frozen foods.


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## Bacon (Jul 4, 2010)

There is a bunch of foods you gotta avoid anything containing tyramin. Nardil seems like a good med but there is a ton of drug interactions, You cant use Stimulants, SSRI's obviously.


 diet pills, caffeine, stimulants, ADHD medication, asthma medication, over-the-counter cough and cold or allergy medicines;
 tryptophan (also called L-tryptophan);
 levodopa (Larodopa, Parcopa, Sinemet), methyldopa (Aldomet);
 meperidine (Demerol, Mepergan);
 furazolidone (Furoxone);
 procarbazine (Matulane);
 buspirone (BuSpar);
 bupropion (Wellbutrin, Zyban);
 dexfenfluramine (Redux);
 guanethidine (Ismelin);
 alcohol or medicines that make you sleepy (such as cold medicine, pain medication, muscle relaxers, and medicine for seizures, depression or anxiety); or
 antidepressants such as citalopram (Celexa), duloxetine (Cymbalta), escitalopram (Lexapro), fluoxetine (Prozac, Sarafem), fluvoxamine (Luvox), paroxetine (Paxil), sertraline (Zoloft), or venlafaxine (Effexor).

It can be fatal if you don't avoid those. My Doctor make's paper Braclets that say i am on an MAOI So incase they find you unconcious or something they know you take an MAOI, Yeah just a small one like you get in the fair better to have one then not but your choice. You should make one for yourself. Just incase. But The interactions can be deadly with MAOI's. Good luck! Or have a card in your wallet that says you take an MAOI.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

redtogo72 said:


> It could take some time before you notice anything positive. It took a couple of months for Nardil to work for me. Initially, I'd have weeks where I felt horrible and didn't want to get out of bed. Your doctor should have a plan for you on a starting dosage and when to increase it. I started with 15mg, and then every 1-2 weeks went up another 15mg. I think upping it every few days is going too quickly.


So you only started on 15mg a day for a while? Seems like a low dose. My dr has never prescribed nardil before so I think he was just trusting my own judgement and knowledge. I thought it normally takes 4 - 6 weeks to work based on starting at a higher dose, so wouldn't it take even longer to kick in if you only start on 15mg for a while?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

In regards to the diet restrictions, what about the following:

- Throat lozenges (eg strepsils)
- Codeine 
- Teriyaki based sauce
- Soy sauce

These potentially lethal interactions scare me a lot, it seems I have anxiety about nardil itself! I'm guessing once it kicks in most of that anxiety about food restrictions goes away?


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## johnwithsad (Jul 17, 2008)

Hello shy-one, from my standpoint anyway, the diet on Nardil is simply not an issue at all.

The only foods I avoid are bleu cheese (which I HATE anyway), any sorts of aged cheeses in large quantities, pickled herring and lots of soy sauce in one sitting. Other than that I've NEVER had an issue at all with food while taking Nardil. They really do exaggerate the food restrictions.

That's not to say that you shouldn't pay attention to what you're eating but for the most part you shouldn't have any problems.

Now for the drug interaction/over the counter medicine interaction, that's another story. You MUST be extremely careful not to take any SSRIs or cold medicines while taking Nardil (Nyquil, Sudafed, etc.). Those can have extremely dangerous interactions with the Nardil.

You asked about codeine and throat lozenges. I really don't know the answer. I would ask your pharmacist about those items. They'll be more than happy to help you out.

As far as bacon, teriyaki and soy sauce, I've never had an issue with bacon. Just don't over due it  Teriyaki and soy sauce in small amounts shouldn't cause you any harm. Just to be on the safe side, you may want to avoid them for the first few weeks you're taking Nardil.

As far as what dose to start at, this is what rxlist.com says:

_Initial dose:_ The usual starting dose of NARDIL (phenelzine) is one tablet (15 mg) three times a day.
_Early phase treatment:_ Dosage should be increased to at least 60 mg per day at a fairly rapid pace consistent with patient tolerance. It may be necessary to increase dosage up to 90 mg per day to obtain sufficient MAO inhibition. Many patients do not show a clinical response until treatment at 60 mg has been continued for at least 4 weeks.

I'm only taking 75mgs per day max instead of 90mgs to lessen side effects such as weight gain and sexual effects. You mentioned insomnia earlier. Yes, I tend to get insomnia while taking Nardil, especially in the beginning, but I find that one melatonin tablet works well.

I seem to benefit best from the drug when I take the whole dose at once instead of spreading them out throughout the day.

Also, please make sure and give the drug ample time to work and try not to get discouraged with it in the beginning. For the first few weeks you're not going to feel great and you might wonder, 'what the heck'. Your brain takes a few weeks to adjust to the Nardil before you start feeling it begin to work.

Be patient with it and you'll be very happy!


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi,

I usually avoid cheese, beer, wine, anything that contains soy, broad beans, fava beans, any food item that is stale (especially food stuff high in proteins like milk, meat etc...) even overripe fruits are best to be avoided, I read somewhere protein powders have to be avoided you can reconfirm that with someone. Things you can consume but at limited quantities (1-2 cups a day but go slow): Yoghurt, coffee, chocolate and other caffeine products. Like I said search the internet.

For drugs to avoid check out Drugs.com - type Nardil and search for any drug and find out how it interacts with it. Thats what I use before taking a new drug - really useful website. Codeine is dangerous I suppose, all cough syrups, most other anti-depressants, blood pressure medications, eye drops - Apraclonidine etc...

I feel you must start at 15mg and then raise it to a minimum of 75 mg within 2 weeks; and stick with it for *another 6-10 weeks* to see real results. Not before 5 weeks for sure on 75 mg. The point is you'll experience euphoria and hypomania maybe in just a week even at 15 mg and again after starting 75 mg; but it will go away real soon...don't get discouraged it happens to everyone.. 6-10 weeks on 75 mg - be patient and you'll eventually know the real effect of the drug. Good luck.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Hi,
> The point is you'll experience euphoria and hypomania maybe in just a week even at 15 mg and again after starting 75 mg; but it will go away real soon...don't get discouraged it happens to everyone.. 6-10 weeks on 75 mg - be patient and you'll eventually know the real effect of the drug. Good luck.


Are you saying you can experience euphoria even on 15mg in the first week? How is this possible if MAO inhibition hasn't even occurred yet? Damn, it would be nice though if it did happen that quickly.

Yeah possible interactions from food and over the counter meds worry me, and i'm scared ****less of making a possibly lethal mistake. Doesn't it bother anyone else on nardil that all it takes is one mistake and you could be dead? Perhaps it doesn't because the nardil has removed this anxiety, but what about at the start? It must be damn good when it works if people think its worth all the food restrictions....

I asked my pharmacist if Doxylamine succinate would be safe to take to counteract possible insomnia, but he said it should be avoided. Any reason why this could be? I've heard others on here take it for nardil insomnia.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

The food interactions are overhyped I think. Some people have worse reactions than others but I haven't had to change my diet at all and I haven't had any hypertensive crises. 

Just stay away from street drugs (like ecstasy for example) and over-the-counter cough syrup and you should be fine. I think the doctors should put more emphasis on drugs from what I have read online. I used to use cough syrup on occasion to get high, but fortunately I did my research and found that any recreational dose would likely put me in the hospital or possibly kill me - and even a small dose could cause hypertensive crisis. I guess that is a plus of Nardil - it forces me to stay away from it. 

Point is, just do your research. I wouldn't worry too much about dying from eating a little bit of fancy cheese. Just don't overdo until you know how it affects your body.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Are you saying you can experience euphoria even on 15mg in the first week? How is this possible if MAO inhibition hasn't even occurred yet? Damn, it would be nice though if it did happen that quickly.
> 
> Yeah possible interactions from food and over the counter meds worry me, and i'm scared ****less of making a possibly lethal mistake. Doesn't it bother anyone else on nardil that all it takes is one mistake and you could be dead? Perhaps it doesn't because the nardil has removed this anxiety, but what about at the start? It must be damn good when it works if people think its worth all the food restrictions....
> 
> I asked my pharmacist if Doxylamine succinate would be safe to take to counteract possible insomnia, but he said it should be avoided. Any reason why this could be? I've heard others on here take it for nardil insomnia.


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Hey Shy-one!

I started at 15 mg and went up to 75 mg in two weeks; for me I experienced hypomania during the 2nd week on 75 mg went on to the 3rd week too. But, I've heard people say they get it in just 3 days of being on a much lower dose. I was just saying don't fall for that cuz its not permanent - it can make you think Nardil's stopped working when it hasn't even begun to actually work - hope I'm clear, its not the real Anxiolytic effect we all look for from Nardil; which takes 6-10 weeks being on 75 mg or higher.

I was scared too at first; but when you know what food/drugs to avoid - as long as you have reasonable memory and self-control, you don't have to worry at all. Like I said earlier even a kid can remember what to avoid - its not like a huge list. If you still don't trust yourself - maybe Nardil is not for you; its like saying no to driving a car because I'm too scared of getting into an accident. I bet you, the risk of you or I dying in a road accident is much greater than getting killed by Nardil. Its not poison so don't be scared. There're people on it for 30 years + and still doing great. - Yes its damn good when it works; and if it was that dangerous as you think, it would have become illegal to use/buy - Sometimes doctors can get real conservative - Dox succ does not interact with Nardil (phenelzine) at all. Its harmless - much safer than benzos. Good luck.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Shy-one!
> 
> I started at 15 mg and went up to 75 mg in two weeks; for me I experienced hypomania during the 2nd week on 75 mg went on to the 3rd week too. But, I've heard people say they get it in just 3 days of being on a much lower dose.


So what was your starting dose schedule? I'm thinking I should start with 15mg on the first day, then perhaps 30mg in divided doses on the second if I tolerate 15mg well the first day? My Dr just went off the information booklet which says starting dose of 45mg a day, but this seems a bit quick to me.

Does anyone know how this hypomania is caused so early into the treatment? I doubt MAO inhibition could be reached this quickly, so could it just be due to an energizing side effect of the drug perhaps? Not that I'm complaining, I hope I experience this hypomania that quickly!

On a side note, I've noticed that most of the people on nardil seem to disappear from posting on these forums. I'm guessing this is because the nardil worked so well and cured their SA?


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

shy-one, where did you find that doctor ? i've searched my *** off and i went to like 20 docs in total, none would want to give me nardil...my story is preety much the same, meaning i tried ssri and benzos with no succes over several years

i want to meet your doc :b


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

RenegadeReloaded said:


> shy-one, where did you find that doctor ? i've searched my *** off and i went to like 20 docs in total, none would want to give me nardil...my story is preety much the same, meaning i tried ssri and benzos with no succes over several years


Yep, I got lucky. I thought i'd have to see at least 10 doctors, but the second one I saw gave me one after pleading my case and saying none of the SSRI's helped etc.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

Bacon said:


> There is a bunch of foods you gotta avoid anything containing tyramin. Nardil seems like a good med but there is a ton of drug interactions, You cant use Stimulants, SSRI's obviously.
> 
> 
> diet pills, caffeine, stimulants, ADHD medication, asthma medication, over-the-counter cough and cold or allergy medicines;
> ...


While the stuff you listed is probably all "officially contraindicated", the reality is, fortunatly, a little bit more flexible:

For instance, Ritalin is a safe stimulant to coadminister, Wellbutrin should not be that much of a problem, too (but seems like there is not much experience with it). Coffeine and alcohol may be tolerated worse (at least I experience quite some increased pulse with coffeine, even on my small little 20mg Parnate - concerning alcohol I cannot say much, since I did only drank ones on Parnate yet... did not feel to great, but I did survive ^^), but they are far from being lifethreatening.

For independent information, which helped me alot, try www.psychotropical.com, there one finds anything one needs!

Best,

reflecting


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

RenegadeReloaded said:


> shy-one, where did you find that doctor ? i've searched my *** off and i went to like 20 docs in total, none would want to give me nardil...my story is preety much the same, meaning i tried ssri and benzos with no succes over several years
> 
> i want to meet your doc :b


But what did these docs do then? Did say they "SSRI, Benzo, Lyrica or nothing!"? I mean, if you did deny this stuff due to bad experiences, they had to give you an alternative, didn't they?

I, by the way, emailed different shrinks and just asked about their general openess concerning MAOI... some did not answer, but two did and so I have a shrink now that calls Parnate "the old master"... I like that


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

reflecting said:


> But what did these docs do then? Did say they "SSRI, Benzo, Lyrica or nothing!"? I mean, if you did deny this stuff due to bad experiences, they had to give you an alternative, didn't they?


Yep, at first he went through the list of SSRIs "have you tried this, have you tried that" etc... kept saying yes to all of them (which I have), and just kept gunning for nardil, no mucking around. It can help if they can see you've done your research and appear to be responsible about the interactions etc. He had never prescribed an MAOI before, so I was very surprised he let me try it. He respected my research and knowledge of MAOIs and wasn't arrogant, unlike many doctors.



> I, by the way, emailed different shrinks and just asked about their general openess concerning MAOI... some did not answer, but two did and so I have a shrink now that calls Parnate "the old master"... I like that


I also did this, one of them said he has prescribed it but unfortunately he was booked out for at least 1 - 2 months. I couldn't wait that long so I hunted around for a GP that would be willing to prescribe it and got lucky. However, he did say he wanted me to see a shrink so I could at least be monitored on it by someone with more knowledge of MAOIs.

I have started my first dose this morning. Was very anxious taking it but haven't noticed any side effects so far. I'm wondering if I should take a second dose in the afternoon, or maybe leave it until tomorrow before going up to 30mg? What would other nardil users suggest?


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> I have started my first dose this morning. Was very anxious taking it but haven't noticed any side effects so far. I'm wondering if I should take a second dose in the afternoon, or maybe leave it until tomorrow before going up to 30mg? What would other nardil users suggest?


Go slow shy-one -> Make it 60mg in two weeks and then 75mg in another 4 days. And then wait for another 6-10 weeks- good luck


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## ephilation (May 18, 2010)

I <3 nardil ... helped me get my life back on track


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Decided to take another dose this afternoon (so 30mg today), still no side effects. Lets hope I sleep tonight, or does the insomnia only normally come in higher dosages? 

I'm getting REALLY paranoid about everything I eat. Almost to the point where i'm half thinking of giving up. I don't care if I die, but I don't want to die a scary, slow, painful death as a result of a hypertensive crisis. If it was a quick, painless death then I wouldn't have a problem with it. 

Can you still eat out anywhere? What about asian places like thai or chinese for example? 

Is processed cheese ok, eg the ones you find on burgers at McDonalds, KFC etc?

Also having to keep mine refrigerated is a pain in the *** if you need to travel or go out etc. How do others manage this? Is it okay to keep a few doses out of the fridge for a day at a time for example?

Damn this nardil is a lot of trouble. I sure hope its worth it. Knowing my luck i'll probably be in the small minority of people it doesn't work for.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one said:


> still no side effects.


That's great! Although you will probably get side effects eventually, it's makes it for sure more proper that you will be one of the lucky ones that tolerate Nardil well.



> I'm getting REALLY paranoid about everything I eat. Almost to the point where i'm half thinking of giving up. Normally I don't care if I die, but I don't want to die a scary, slow, painful death as a result of a hypertensive crisis.
> 
> Can you still eat out anywhere? What about asian places like thai or chinese for example?
> 
> Is processed cheese ok, eg the ones you find on burgers at McDonalds, KFC etc?


I - being member of an anxiety forum - understand that fear is often irrational. Still, some facts may help you relaxing - I copy this from psychotropical.com:

_It is sad and unscientific that one sees frequent references, even in specialist texts, about MAOIs being 'dangerous' drugs. The brainwashing activities of the advertising spin doctors have been so successful that many doctors now believe that there is no debate or argument about the notion that the new drugs are better and safer than all old drugs.

An approximation of the risk to benefit ratio of NSAIDs compared with MAOIs will place things in perspective. This is especially topical and pertinent in view of the recently recognised association between SSRIs and GI bleeding. NSAIDs are mostly used for arthritis which rarely has a fatal outcome. In major depression there is a 10-15% life-time risk of suicide as well as a greatly increased standardised mortality ratio (SMR). Consider the number of deaths from GI bleeds associated with NSAIDs (the figure is 1,200 deaths every year in the United Kingdom (2), not to mention cases of Stevens-Johnson syndrome/toxic epidermal necrolysis (3). Most doctors will have seen quite a few cases. Compare that to the rarity of cerebral bleeds from MAOIs. Most doctors will never ever see, or even hear of, a single case in their entire career. Deaths from MAOI induced hypertension are very rare. It is hard to find many reported in the last 50 years. A search of the whole Pubmed data base returns 67 hits for the keywords 'fatal' + 'monoamine oxidase inhibitor'. Many of these relate to serotonin toxicity, older reports to hepatic toxicity, but not one single report of intra-cranial bleeding. Another possible perspective is to note that fatal cerebral bleeds are documented as a result of the increase in arterial blood pressure secondary to weight lifting (4), which can elevate BP to 480 mm Hg. So, although exact figures for cerebral bleeds are imprecise this comparison puts the matter into perspective. It is abundantly clear that to regard MAOIs as dangerous is not just an over-reaction but also an egregious example of the unscientific and ill informed opinions not uncommon in the psychiatric fraternity._

In addition, the food-interactions are mainly a problem with Parnate. Nardil is much more forgiving concerning Tyramine (but med-interactions are serious in both!). So if you stick to the modern lists of forbidden foods (look also at psychotropical.com for this or google for Toronto MAOI diet), which is really not to long, then there is absolutly no reason to worry.

Moreover, you could think about adding something with Noradrenalin reuptake inhibition proberties... it is a quite common theory that this would reduce the risk of a Tyramine-reaction even further.



> Also having to keep mine refrigerated is a pain in the *** if you need to travel or go out etc. How do others manage this? Is it okay to keep a few doses out of the fridge for a day at a time for example?
> 
> Damn this nardil is a lot of trouble. I sure hope its worth it. Knowing my luck i'll probably be in the small minority of people it doesn't work for.


You have to keep it refridgiated? Hm, as far as I know that does not hold for the Pfizer or the Gavis versions... so you could think about importing one of these, no?

All the best,

reflecting


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Should side effects have started to show by now? Normally i'm very sensitive to medications (especially SSRI's), so i'm surprised I haven't felt anything yet. But then again, it has only been 30mg. In saying that, I probably won't sleep tonight because insomnia was always my biggest issue with most antidepressants (with the exception of remeron). 

My nardil is made by "Link" not Pfizer. It says to keep refrigerated. Do you really have to keep it refrigerated all the time, and if so why? I don't see how it would be different from the pfizer nardil? Also this nardil smells and tastes disgusting.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

*sigh* I give up, nardil has beaten me.

I can't keep living in such fear everytime I put something into my mouth. I went to cook a pie for dinner but then realised its on the forbidden list (due to gravy) so had to chuck it out and rack my brain for something else to eat. Went to have some frozen chips.... nope can't have that due to "YEAST EXTRACT" in ingredients. Ok, a chicken keiv should be alright, nope can't have that either due to cheese (apparently) and soy extract. Just about every food has yeast or soy extract in it. So then I thought i'll go out for thai, but read that there is soy in many thai foods. So now i'm not going to eat dinner at all because there is nothing left that isn't actually on the ****ing "do not eat" list. Perhaps the only way to safely go on an MAOI is if you were connected to an IV drip and didn't eat? ****ing hell. 

Looks like i'll be living the rest of my life with SA and depression. FML


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

shy-one said:


> *sigh* I give up, nardil has beaten me.
> 
> I can't keep living in such fear everytime I put something into my mouth. I went to cook a pie for dinner but then realised its on the forbidden list (due to gravy) so had to chuck it out and rack my brain for something else to eat. Went to have some frozen chips.... nope can't have that due to "YEAST EXTRACT" in ingredients. Ok, a chicken keiv should be alright, nope can't have that either due to cheese (apparently) and soy extract. Just about every food has yeast or soy extract in it. So then I thought i'll go out for thai, but read that there is soy in many thai foods. So now i'm not going to eat dinner at all because there is nothing left that isn't actually on the ****ing "do not eat" list. Perhaps the only way to safely go on an MAOI is if you were connected to an IV drip and didn't eat? ****ing hell.
> 
> Looks like i'll be living the rest of my life with SA and depression. FML


How long have you been taken Nardil? Have you had a hypertensive crisis so far? Also, keep in mind, the anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects often take a month or longer to set in.

I eat lots of cheese, just not fancy cheese (mac & cheese, quesadillas, cheeseburgers, etc) and small amounts of soy sauce with chinese food (no msg of course). I haven't had any problems whatsoever. I even drink beer (even though I know it dilutes the anti-depressant effects) without noticing any hyper-tensive episodes. I have not had a single episode of hypertensive crisis. I don't obsessivey analyze everything I buy from the store. I don't think a small amount of yeast or soy extract is really going to cause any problems. Maybe I'm being careless, but I just don't think it's as dangerous as a lot of people make it out to be.

In any case, carry nifedipine on you just in case. The risk of having anything serious happening is pretty small as long as you don't take in heaps and heaps of any banned food or substance (keep in mind, the drugs and over the counter cold medications can be more dangerous, as I have already mentioned)


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

I would strongly recommend you not to give because of this food-thing.

Read this here http://psychotropical.com/pdfs/maois_diet_full_v2.2.1.doc.pdf

(and be aware that the author is calculating with Parnate... with Nardil it takes something like twice to threetimes as much tyramine to get a reaction!)

there are nearly no things that have so much tyramine that a small quantity can give rise to a hypertensive crisis and only very few, where "normal"/"modest" portions can do that... I would really try it for a longer time so that you can check out the anxiolytic and antidepressant effects... then you can decide whether it's worth it. Moreover, you seem to have quite some generalized anxiety as well... so when the Nardil kicks in, you will probably worry less about this food stuff... and that's good, because the risk is just so extremly small compared to all the other risks we are all taking regulary (going by car or taking aspirin or whatever).

moreover, you could ask for some med for the case of emergency... the nifedipine mentioned above seems not to be the standard recommondation anymore, but taking a fast acting benzo to calm down and lower blood pressure and going to hospital.


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

reflecting said:


> But what did these docs do then? Did say they "SSRI, Benzo, Lyrica or nothing!"? I mean, if you did deny this stuff due to bad experiences, they had to give you an alternative, didn't they?
> 
> I, by the way, emailed different shrinks and just asked about their general openess concerning MAOI... some did not answer, but two did and so I have a shrink now that calls Parnate "the old master"... I like that


I think doctors think more of risks of that class rather than how the pacient feels. They like to keep it risk free in order to protect themselves from his patients having severe side effects (witch has been propaganded about MAOI, but isn't true).

Most of them just prescribed me same medicine, even when i've told them i've tried it allready for at least 3 months and at different dosages. Idiots.

But anyway, emailing different shrinks its a wonderfull ideea, i'll try that


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

reflecting said:


> Moreover, you seem to have quite some generalized anxiety as well... so when the Nardil kicks in, you will probably worry less about this food stuff... and that's good, because the risk is just so extremly small compared to all the other risks we are all taking regulary (going by car or taking aspirin or whatever).


Yep, I have a lot of generalized anxiety as well, which makes it very difficult with the food thing. I nearly had a panic attack before when trying to think of something to have for dinner with all the food restrictions... then I ended up getting angry at myself because I thought I wouldn't be able to continue the nardil with such anxiety over the foods.

So am I correct in saying that you can't eat anything with yeast or soy extract? Isn't that pretty much 90% of packaged and frozen foods? Also can you not eat gravy, including meat pies? Has anyone else done this?



> moreover, you could ask for some med for the case of emergency... the nifedipine mentioned above seems not to be the standard recommondation anymore, but taking a fast acting benzo to calm down and lower blood pressure and going to hospital.


Yep, asked my Dr for nifedipine but he didn't want to give me that unfortunately. He said if you have a hypertensive crisis you should be going to hospital and not self administering. But what if you're out bush somewhere miles from any hospital? You'd be dead.

Seriously guys, I don't know if all this stress is worth continuing the nardil. It seems every food I read has some ingredient from the "do not eat list", especially in regards to yeast and soy.

Has anyone else had this much anxiety in regards to the foods when they first started taking it? This is hardcore stuff that can potentially be lethal. So basically you just have to eat and pray? You may as well play russian roulette.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Yep thats right, I went through the same thing in 2008 and was scared to take nardil. However I thought i'd give it a crack a second time around. 

As you can see, I not only have SA, but also severe generalized anxiety. 

So no, i'm not a spam bot or anything like that, so please remove your post as it is quite offensive.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Yep, I have a lot of generalized anxiety as well, which makes it very difficult with the food thing. I nearly had a panic attack before when trying to think of something to have for dinner with all the food restrictions... then I ended up getting angry at myself because I thought I wouldn't be able to continue the nardil with such anxiety over the foods.
> 
> So am I correct in saying that you can't eat anything with yeast or soy extract? Isn't that pretty much 90% of packaged and frozen foods? Also can you not eat gravy, including meat pies? Has anyone else done this?


hmm, with these detailed questions take a look in the diet manual thingy I've linked above... since yeast and soy are indeed two of the more critical things, you should probably try such stuff cautiously... Probably it's such a small amount in most packaged/frozen food, that it would work out fine... but really, read the evidence on tyramine, i.e. psychotropical.com or google for the toronto maoi diet recommendations!



> Yep, asked my Dr for nifedipine but he didn't want to give me that unfortunately. He said if you have a hypertensive crisis you should be going to hospital and not self administering.


He's right concerning the nifedipine - seems like this rapid bloodpressure-reduction did often do more harm than good... ask for a quickly acting benzo which you could take in an emergency case, before going to hospital...



> But what if you're out bush somewhere miles from any hospital? You'd be dead.


Probably not. Even without hospital care a lethal outcome is unlikely.



> Seriously guys, I don't know if all this stress is worth continuing the nardil. It seems every food I read has some ingredient from the "do not eat list", especially in regards to yeast and soy.
> 
> Has anyone else had this much anxiety in regards to the foods when they first started taking it? This is hardcore stuff that can potentially be lethal. So basically you just have to eat and pray? You may as well play russian roulette.


Well, you have to decide in the end... but I can only recommend you once more to read on serious websites like psychotropical.com to get real facts... and you will see that it's much less like playing russian roulette than driving car, crossing the street or taking an aspirin...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Thanks for those of you giving positive responses.... 

I am really torn as to whether I should keep taking it or not. This morning I woke up worrying about all the foods again and thought I couldn't keep taking it. My generalized anxiety is so severe that I nearly have a panic attack whenever I eat something on nardil. As soon as I eat something I take my blood pressure to make sure it hasn't gone up even by the slightest amount. 

I ended up taking another dose this morning but it may be my last. So basically I have two choices, continue with the nardil (and possible side effects), and suffer extreme anxiety every time I eat something, or discontinue it and keep living with SA and depression. Its a very tough choice to make. I guess its a bit of a catch 22 scenario for people with generalized anxiety.... you need to endure extreme anxiety at the start in regards to the foods, but i'm guessing this would eventually disappear once the nardil kicks in. 

One other side effect I've noticed is that is smells, and really badly at that. The actual pills smell really bad themselves (is this normal?) and the smell seems to be going through my body. The smell from going to the bathroom is absolutely awful to the point I nearly passed out from it. It also seems to be coming from my skin and I can't seem to get rid of it. Again, is this normal?


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Yep thats right, I went through the same thing in 2008 and was scared to take nardil. However I thought i'd give it a crack a second time around.
> 
> As you can see, I not only have SA, but also severe generalized anxiety.
> 
> So no, i'm not a spam bot or anything like that, so please remove your post as it is quite offensive.


My sincerest apologies shy-one.. feel real bad about myself, I was just stupid. Honestly didn't know the real facts and I'm sorry again. All the very best to you...and hope you don't miss out on Nardil this second time..


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

*Don't Quit Bro!!*



shy-one said:


> Thanks for those of you giving positive responses....
> 
> I am really torn as to whether I should keep taking it or not. This morning I woke up worrying about all the foods again and thought I couldn't keep taking it. My generalized anxiety is so severe that I nearly have a panic attack whenever I eat something on nardil. As soon as I eat something I take my blood pressure to make sure it hasn't gone up even by the slightest amount.
> 
> ...


Hi Shy-One,

I really unnderstand how you feel; because I have the same problems as you do.. Gen. Anxiety, Panic Disorder etc, Depression etc... I urge you to not quit Nardil, which is really a life-saver bro. You've come all the way round to getting Nardil, and I really feel you should not quit. Regarding your questions/concerns I'll do my best to answer them:

-> There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pie & Gravy (Just ensure your food does not contain - bologna, pepperoni, salami, summer sausage, pickled herring, liver) Other than than that you can eat any meat, as long as its not rotten/spoiled.

-> Frozen chips are perfect too. (Don't worry about what every food item contains) - As long as you don't use yeast extract while you cook its great Just whatever you please (again just check the expiry date for everything thats it).

-> Chicken keiv: If you cook it yourself, just sacrifice the cheese and soy sauce part of it. If ready to eat - better pick up stuff without cheese and soy sauce. No Soy milk - regular milk is fine. Otherwise I take peanut butter and lot of other stuff which sometime has soy extract they never harm me at all. regular yeast used in baking is okay.

Just avoid Chinese or Thai food stuff - they do have soy in them. Choose something else - Indian, American, Mexican - eat at a good/hygienic restaurant so everything is fresh. Just eat whatever you please - Just tell the waiter "No Cheese" Thats it bro.

Perhaps the only way to safely go on an MAOI is if you were connected to an IV drip and didn't eat? - Not true man!!

*Tip: Learn how to cook your meals - makes things much easier*

You're not going to hypertensive crisis - just believe my words bro. Nardil can completely eliminate all your problems (including Gen anx, soc.,, anx, panic disorder, depression etc....)

So all I can say is Just don't Quit. You'll thank everyone who told you not to someday bro. Make a wise decision - Good luck - Ashwin


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Thanks Ashwin, apology accepted.

Thanks for the additional info, I have decided to stick with nardil for now (just), but I'm still very anxious about eating certain foods.

Just to clarify, can you eat anything with soy (actual soy sauce?), or is this pretty dangerous? I've heard mixed reports of people in regards to the soy. What about teriyaki? I really like chicken teriyaki (eg sushi), so it would be a shame to have to give this up as well.

In regards to pies and gravy, i've heard that any gravy based sauce should be avoided, which includes the gravy in meat pies. Apparently this is because they are based on degraded protein? http://www.entheology.org/tips-maoi/maoicards.htm "AVOID: ready-made meat pies, especially those in gravy (e.g. meat pies & casseroles)" There is so much conflicting advice, so i'm really not sure what to believe.

My other concern is if you were in an accident and needed emergency pain relief or surgery. Are there any alternatives they could actually give you, or would you just have to suffer in severe pain because you're on an MAOI?

These food restrictions really are a pain in the ***, so I sure hope they are all worth it. I guess i'll just have to wait and see. I'll give it 2 months, and if no success i'll go off it.

I'm currently on 30mg a day, and no bad side effects yet. Possibly a little insomnia (waking throughout the night), but its hard to tell. I'm guessing the side effects really come at around 60mg?


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## Emile (Feb 3, 2010)

I can eat soy sauce no problem. The general rule is there are a few select things you need to avoid - yeast extract on the back of a chip packet is ok, but those little cubes you use to make stock could cause a serious episode. Similarly, really old, aged, smelly foods like beef jerky, salami etc, are best avoided. Then there's the stuff with neurotransmitter precursors that you'll rarely encounter; tryptophan, tyrosine, etc. Bananas are on the list for this reason but I find them harmless.

Little things don't matter. Cheddar cheese is fine. Chocolate is fine. Gravy is fine. Pizza; even multiple cups of coffee and I'm still ok.

*>>* http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html

That's a good, simple dietary outline.

It's best to test your foods in small doses and wait to see what happens. You need to ingest a heap to risk a massive crisis, so meter it out. It also depends on the person. For instance I can even drink red wine on Parnate, if I'm feeling bold, but a little bit of peanut butter will give me problems.



shy-one said:


> My other concern is if you were in an accident and needed emergency pain relief or surgery. Are there any alternatives they could actually give you, or would you just have to suffer in severe pain because you're on an MAOI?


They'd have to know their stuff, but as for opioids, it's generally fine. There's one or two that are contraindicated because they're serotonin potentiators, pethidine and Tramadol IIRC.

~



shy-one said:


> I have started my first dose this morning. Was very anxious taking it but haven't noticed any side effects so far. I'm wondering if I should take a second dose in the afternoon, or maybe leave it until tomorrow before going up to 30mg? What would other nardil users suggest?


I thought the general doctrine was to start at 45mg and move to 60 as fast as side effects will allow. You want to knock out the MAO and then you can bring the dose back down to keep the benefits without the side effects.

From experience, though rather short (I was taking it off-label and had only one packet) I doubt you'll feel anything until you've been on 45-60 for a few weeks or so. Side effects directly correlate with beneficial effects, if you don't get side effects and you feel something from the drug you're a freak of nature 

Fatigue and, um, flatulence were what I remember. Second one's a bummer, but they all lessen over time. There's always a "side effect period" and then a "benefit period", and people jump the gun too quickly before their body adjusts to the dose.



reflecting said:


> moreover, you could ask for some med for the case of emergency... the nifedipine mentioned above seems not to be the standard recommondation anymore, but taking a fast acting benzo to calm down and lower blood pressure and going to hospital.


Clonidine is the one, I think. Someone on this board even mentioned carrying Thorazine with them, which is a little drastic, but probably quite effective.

There are a heap of Nardil Success threads all over this board, just search "nardil". The most well organized one I remember was zendog's, though he seems to have had a love-hate relationship with it. Keep in mind, they're MAOIs. They take a long time to really kick in and stabilise - at least two months 

Take it until you _cannot_ deal with the side effects, and I mean really can't, and keep pushing until you get benefits. From what I hear you don't have many other options left, and you only live once. If MAOIs work for you, and I suspect they might, but Nardil is too much, there's Parnate. More sensitive on the tyramine-related side effects, true, but apart from that it's almost completely void of issues. You want to try both, honestly, before you disregard this class of drug. So don't just run away when something goes wrong!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Emile said:


> but a little bit of peanut butter will give me problems.


Peanut butter? I thought that would be fine. I thought nuts are generally ok in small amounts?

As for soy and yeast products in packaged/frozen foods, i'm assuming these are fine? I'm talking about things that say "yeast extract" and "soy protein" and "soy bean extract" etc, because nearly ALL packaged foods have these in the ingredients list. So the only one to actually avoid is soy sauce itself, correct? Another one i've noticed in some asian packaged meals is "shrimp paste", should this be avoided?


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Just to clarify, can you eat anything with soy (actual soy sauce?), or is this pretty dangerous? I've heard mixed reports of people in regards to the soy. What about teriyaki? I really like chicken teriyaki (eg sushi), so it would be a shame to have to give this up as well.
> 
> In regards to pies and gravy, i've heard that any gravy based sauce should be avoided, which includes the gravy in meat pies. Apparently this is because they are based on degraded protein? http://www.entheology.org/tips-maoi/maoicards.htm "AVOID: ready-made meat pies, especially those in gravy (e.g. meat pies & casseroles)" There is so much conflicting advice, so i'm really not sure what to believe.
> 
> ...


Hey Shy-one!!

Actual Soy-sauce: I've never tried risking with that honestly; but I've heard some people have broken all the rules - I'm sort of like you I stick to the rules. You know what? Anxiety is a really good thing in a situation like this, cuz its the people who are not afraid of anything that hurt themselves in the end.

What about teriyaki?

Again I suppose it has soy sauce in it. So, I always avoid it. Its no shame bro! You just have to stay away from some favorite food stuff, not all right? In exchange for a life you longed for.. In my opinion, thats like 50 cents for a Dollar.. you still profit.

In case you have to be admitted in a hospital, all you have to tell the doctors, nurses etc.. that you are on an MAOI.. And they have a thousand alternatives. So no worries.



shy-one said:


> Peanut butter? I thought that would be fine. I thought nuts are generally ok in small amounts?
> 
> As for soy and yeast products in packaged/frozen foods, i'm assuming these are fine? I'm talking about things that say "yeast extract" and "soy protein" and "soy bean extract" etc, because nearly ALL packaged foods have these in the ingredients list. So the only one to actually avoid is soy sauce itself, correct? Another one I've noticed in some asian packaged meals is "shrimp paste", should this be avoided?


-> Peanut butter is fine.. Always, start slow - just take a lil' bit at first and then slowly increase it. I eat nuts they're fine, always start slow just so that you don't panic for no reason.

-> As for soy and yeast products in packaged/frozen foods, i'm assuming these are fine? - Yes they are - just use them before the 'best to use by date'.

-> "shrimp paste" - I don't think its bad.

Thats a great decision you didn't quit man! Make sure you jump it up to 75mg in 2 weeks and maybe you can stop at that for the moment. And then remember to wait 6-10 weeks. Keep updating all the good and bad effects you feel; so people here can lead you in the right way. Good luck - thanks - Ashwin


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

Though I really do not want to make you more fear, I have to say one thing (also for the other MAOIers here): You should avoid soy sauce in general, because it seems to be pretty volatile in Tyramine content... so only because one does not get an reaction several times, that doesn't mean anything (except if you buy the same brand, probably - but the Chinese restaurant next house might use dangerous sauce in dangerous amounts).


For the case of an emergency I would make a little note in my pocket... stating that you are taking MAOI Phenelzine and maybe also a little list of forbidden narcotics and safe alternatives (see the psychotropical-stuff again, there is everything you need to know...)


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

reflecting said:


> You should avoid soy sauce in general, because it seems to be pretty volatile in Tyramine content...


Do you mean the actual soy sauce itself, or soy products in packaged/frozen foods? It would be nearly impossible to avoid all soy products completely, because just about every packaged food has them. Nearly every packaged food has "contains soy" etc.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Do you mean the actual soy sauce itself, or soy products in packaged/frozen foods? It would be nearly impossible to avoid all soy products completely, because just about every packaged food has them. Nearly every packaged food has "contains soy" etc.


Soy itself does not contain Tyramine - the Tyramine comes into being when the protein undergoes fermentation. Therefore, soy sauce or tofu can contain significant Tyramine, but just "contains soy" should be unproblematic.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the typical "soy extract" is that one finds on ingredient lists... probably it's not fermented, since that takes time and is, thus, not done if not necessary. But I don't really know anything about soy extract... maybe we have some food chemist in the forum... otherwise, you could ask in a board on food chemistry (and then please report us here ^^)

Edit: But you can be sure, that the "typical" packaged product with "contains soy" or so, is safe, since otherwise this would be stated as a critical thing in the usual maoi diets... but the toronto diet, for instance, does only list "soy sauce" and "soy condiment", while I don't know precisly what the latter one is.


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## WillShakey (Jun 5, 2011)

hey everyone, first post here... just thought i would share my experience thus far as this forum has been a great help to me and wanted to give a little back.

i've been on nardil (generic) for 7 weeks:
1st week - 15 mg/day
weeks 2-4 - 30 mg/day
weeks 5-6 - 45 mg/day... and just finished my first week of 60mg/day.

i too was scared about the food reactions (still am somewhat), but to this point have had no issues. i actually just got done eating some taco bell and hopped on here to check a few things. the taco bell was fine, no cheese on anything i ate really except for some processed cheese (like the fake nacho cheese they use) and i read that was ok to have. i usually avoid cheese otherwise. i have had some bottled beer (no draft), peanut butter almost every day, chinese food once and no issues.

i have however sometimes felt a little chest pressure (maybe its all in my head) but never seemed to be at a time that would have been from anything i ate or drank. have also noticed my heart seems to beat a little faster (or at least i'm noticing it more) when i work out. only other side effects i've really noticed have been the sexual, which suck! kind of seems like i'm going to the bathroom (#2) more often, but not sure if that would be from the nardil or not.

unfortunately, after 7 weeks i have seen no noticeable difference in my anxiety, mood, depression. getting a little discouraged that its not working and also very costly since i have no insurance! wondering what i would even do after this if nardil doesn't work. like a lot of people on here, i too have tried all the typical anti-depressants with no help. i see my psychiatrist again in about 3 weeks, he brought up before maybe trying some bipolar II meds/mood stabilizers like lithium or lamictal.

i have also been reading a lot about tramadol recently which has really sparked my interest by some very good reviews, but of course i've read all the other reviews about possible tolerance/addiction. i'm not saying it couldn't happen to me but i don't have an addictive personality, literally have never been addicted to anything in my life. also i feel like i could be disciplined enough to follow a plan not to build a tolerance, like maybe take weekends off from the med if it were needed. i have been taking the lowest dose of klonopin for over a year to help me sleep at night and have never raised the dose. i've read that people have taken tramadol for years (for pain, fibromyalgia, depression) with no addiction/tolerance issues.

sorry, i feel like this is a long post... guess i had a few things i wanted to get off my chest  thought about starting a post of my own but thought this was related. would love to hear anyone's thoughts or advice. thanks!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

This is my fourth day on nardil, currently at 30mg and so far not really any noticeable side effects (apart from the smell). 

However, this morning at work I felt unusually calmer than usual. It almost felt like I had taken a low dose of a benzo, and it was a little easier talking to people. Obviously I wouldn't have reached MAO inhibition yet, but could this possibly just be due to a mild sedating side effect of the nardil? I took it approx 7am, and the anxiety started to return at about 1pm, so around 6 hours later. Perhaps I was just having a good morning, I don't know - but whatever it was I did feel less anxious. 

I'm thinking of going up to 45mg tomorrow, how would it be best to split this? I'm thinking 30mg in the morning and 15mg in the afternoon?

Update: Took my afternoon dose and sure enough again I feel calmer. I'm guessing its just a nice mild sedating side effect of the nardil? If this is the case, i'm probably actually better taking the third dose (45mg total) before bed? So much for insomnia, I reckon it actually feels similar to benzos. None of the SSRI's seem to have a calming effect like this.

Update2: Even if I don't get any good results from nardil, I'm tempted just to take it as an alternative to benzos. If I didn't know any better I would have thought someone had given me valium. Does anyone else get this calming side effect similar to benzos? Hopefully this side effect doesn't wear off.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> This is my fourth day on nardil, currently at 30mg and so far not really any noticeable side effects (apart from the smell).
> 
> However, this morning at work I felt unusually calmer than usual. It almost felt like I had taken a low dose of a benzo, and it was a little easier talking to people. Obviously I wouldn't have reached MAO inhibition yet, but could this possibly just be due to a mild sedating side effect of the nardil? I took it approx 7am, and the anxiety started to return at about 1pm, so around 6 hours later. Perhaps I was just having a good morning, I don't know - but whatever it was I did feel less anxious.
> 
> ...





WillShakey said:


> hey everyone, first post here... just thought i would share my experience thus far as this forum has been a great help to me and wanted to give a little back.
> 
> i've been on nardil (generic) for 7 weeks:
> 1st week - 15 mg/day
> ...


*Hey Guys!!

Don't quit so soon.

Nardil takes 6-10 weeks after you start 75 mg.

Step 1: Bump up your dosage to 75 mg ASAP (Don't start coiunting your weeks unless you're at a minimum of 75 mg - No 60mg let alone 45mg or lower.... let me say that again 75mg)
Step 2: Wait patiently 6 - 10 weeks.

I bet you not a single soul in this world can see any results on Nardil before at least 6 -10 weeks). But after that you'll no longer be the same person. Please write this down somewhere - (6-10) weeks on 75mg minimum* C'mon guys be patient and don't expect to see absolutely any changes before that.


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## WillShakey (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks for the advice Ashwin, I really do appreciate it. Part of me really wants to stick it out to see the real benefits... but the part I'm struggling with now is that I really can't afford it every month. Even the generic is pretty expensive when taking that amount. I'm hoping after talking with the doc we might be able to find a less costly solution. Thanks again!


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

I agree that you should both go up to the 75mg and wait... (except the classical 1mg/kg/d rule for Nardil does say something completely different for you, then you may need to go higher (or stay lower if you are very think and small).

But I am positively surprised that you are both facing such few side effects so far... in fact, I have always seen the biggest problem in trying Nardil in these many weeks with nasty side effects and no idea if it will eventually work...


I know I should now concentrate on my Parnate-try and see if it works, but I am really tempted to give Nardil a try someday...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

So I took a third dose before bed. At first I couldn't get to sleep for at least an hour but I don't think this was due to the nardil. Rather, it was more worrying about whether or not the nardil would cause insomnia which gave me insomnia in itself. Once I got to sleep I managed to sleep all the way through to the morning and woke up feeling very calm.

I can't believe that nardil hasn't given me insomnia when just about every SSRI has. Everyone keeps going on about the nardil insomnia but it looks like i'm not getting it (at least yet). In fact quite the opposite (as mentioned), it feels exactly like a benzo. I'm starting to like nardil more and more by the day, just for its pleasant calming side effect.

Normally at this point on the SSRI's I would have experienced a lot of side effects, _especially_ insomnia. I can't believe that i've tolerated an MAOI this well so far.

I think i'll stay on 45mg for maybe a week or two and see how it goes, then maybe bump it up to 60mg. I might even take an extra dose before bed because I think it actually _helps_ me sleep.

Holy crap if this calming effect is only a side effect I can't wait until it actually does kick in to see how much calmer it makes me then, it must be like heaven.


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## WillShakey (Jun 5, 2011)

Also, just to add... I usually have a couple of cups of coffee and a few protein shakes every day and again, no issues.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> So I took a third dose before bed. At first I couldn't get to sleep for at least an hour but I don't think this was due to the nardil. Rather, it was more worrying about whether or not the nardil would cause insomnia which gave me insomnia in itself. Once I got to sleep I managed to sleep all the way through to the morning and woke up feeling very calm.
> 
> I can't believe that nardil hasn't given me insomnia when just about every SSRI has. Everyone keeps going on about the nardil insomnia but it looks like i'm not getting it (at least yet). In fact quite the opposite (as mentioned), it feels exactly like a benzo. I'm starting to like nardil more and more by the day, just for its pleasant calming side effect.
> 
> ...


hi Shy-one!

Again, I'll say maybe yeah stay on 45 mg for a week and then make it 60 mg; and then after 3-5 days make it 75 mg. And btw you will have to wait 6-10 weeks after you touch 75 mg - just remember that. Because if you wait for too long to just get to 75 mg; another 6 weeks to 2 months after that can make you really really impatient to see the real effects.

And I'm at 75 mg; and just like you even I never experienced any insomnia or weight gain. But, I got constipation, inorgasmia and orthostatic hypotension. Good luck.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

After going up to 45mg the other day I felt rather groggy in the morning, but seemed to be fine today. In fact I actually felt a lot better today in terms of depression and anxiety, but obviously it couldn't be the nardil yet. So i've been tossing up whether or not I should continue to take it, maybe I was just having a bad patch? 

I am still very concerned about the food interactions, if it weren't for them I wouldn't have a problem staying on it just for the heck of it.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Just thought i'd give an update, things are changing.... 

A few days ago I went up to 60mg. I'm just past my second week. I don't know if I was just having a good weekend, but I felt much less depressed than I normally do. I found myself enjoying simple things more that I normally didn't as much, eg music, being outside in the sun etc. For some reason music sounds a lot better than it used to. 

Last night I had dinner with my gf and I thought she was smiling and making me laugh. But apparently I was the one who kept smiling (without realising), which was making her smile. I then purposely tried pulling a straight face for a while but couldn't and burst out laughing in the restaurant. I also noticed my social anxiety was a bit less. 

I also thought I may have either had a mild hypertensive crisis, or a panic attack. I ate some chicken which was in bbq rib sauce. About an hour later I felt my heart racing a bit in my chest, but no headache. Took my blood pressure and the first two times it was 160/85 and heart rate was 110 bpm. I then took another few times and it was something like 130/80. Do you think it was a hypertensive crisis or a panic attack? I freaked myself out when I first saw 160/85, but perhaps the first two readings were incorrect. Is bbq rib sauce safe to eat?

Now for the side effects. Holy crap 45mg to 60mg is a big jump. I thought I wouldn't get insomnia but the past few nights I've been waking up really early like 3-4am and unable to get back to sleep. Another one is sexual dysfunction, which I have never got from any of the SSRI's before. Very frustrating, especially when you have a gf. Does this go away? 

The next few days are going to be very interesting. I've been feeling rather different (in a good way), so I think it may be starting to kick in.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Today I felt rather usually calm about things in general. I wouldn't say I was more social, just felt more relaxed and didn't let things bother me as much as they normally would. 

For example, i'd often stress about little things like getting to work on time, whether or not i'd have time to finish doing something etc. But today I almost had no anxiety and just didn't care. 

Wasn't quite as happy as I was yesterday, but still reasonably content and certainly not depressed.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Today I felt rather usually calm about things in general. I wouldn't say I was more social, just felt more relaxed and didn't let things bother me as much as they normally would.
> 
> For example, I'd often stress about little things like getting to work on time, whether or not I'd have time to finish doing something etc. But today I almost had no anxiety and just didn't care.
> 
> Wasn't quite as happy as I was yesterday, but still reasonably content and certainly not depressed.


Hi Shy-one!

Its really good to know that you've increased your dosage to 60mg. But just listen carefully - what your experiencing right now is a mild hypomania & euphoria; its a state of nil depression - felling good about oneself etc..., as you rightly put it. This happens to everyone who starts Nardil. But, this will go away in a couple of days to a 1.5 weeks. And you will again feel down (slightly depressed) at that point; but don't panic and quit.. this is not NARDIL yet. Its just a temporary side effect. If what you say is right (you started 60mg a few days back; and if you continued at 60mg or more but never less again), you should know the real deal by somewhere around *29th July to 12th Aug 2011*.

Thats like 6-8 weeks from now. And trust me; you'll change your screen-name to the cool-one, unashamed-one, bold-one or something else cuz shy-one will just not suit your personality anymore. Good luck bro.

--------------------------------

I feel you were just panicking at the restaurant about getting a hypertensive attack. Panic will shoot up your Blood Pressure. But just be careful what you eat too, don't take it too easy either.

regarding your Insomnia - you can try 0.25mg or 0.5mg Klonopin.. maybe even 1mg. Take it 2 times a week but not more; for you might develop tolerance to it. A couple of other days you can take an equivalent dose of some other benzo. On weekends; when you don't have to get up next morning and go to work take Unisom tabs.. they can make you a bit drowsy the next day (they're really really safe and so effective). Thats about how I handle insomnia..and its perfect.



upndownboi said:


> i'd be interested in knowing this. or if anyone has found a way of getting round it? even if only temporarily. having a dick that feels like its been sat on for the last two hours is not fun.


I've heard a lot of people say that anorgasmia does not last more than 3-4 months on Nardil. Its true because when I started 75mg; it was worse my penis was just insensitive and now its like 2 months and these days I'm like so close to ejaculating upon stimulation. So its already getting better. I'm pretty sure in a few more weeks I should be normal again.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Thanks ashwin, damn I was hoping it was the real deal starting to kick in.... oh well. End of July? still a long time to wait 

As for the insomnia, last night I took some doxylamine succinate and it did help. I woke up at the usual time of around 3am, but managed to get back to sleep pretty quickly. For some reason it was even better than a benzo I think. Is it safe to take doxylamine succinate every night or is it like the benzos in that you build up a tolerance and dependency? 

I think i'll hold on 60mg for the time being, could it still work at this dose? I don't want to go up higher yet because insomnia has always been a huge issue for me. I can only just tolerate the insomnia at 60mg.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

I have a quick question. Those of you who started Nardil while on a benzos. , did it help with reduction of the benzodiazepine? I would think so as it does work on the GABA receptors. I also would think Parnate would not be effective in that respect as it's effect on GABA is not really part of it's psychokinetic activity, as far as I know.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Thanks ashwin, damn I was hoping it was the real deal starting to kick in.... oh well. End of July? still a long time to wait
> 
> As for the insomnia, last night I took some doxylamine succinate and it did help. I woke up at the usual time of around 3am, but managed to get back to sleep pretty quickly. For some reason it was even better than a benzo I think. Is it safe to take doxylamine succinate every night or is it like the benzos in that you build up a tolerance and dependency?
> 
> I think i'll hold on 60mg for the time being, could it still work at this dose? I don't want to go up higher yet because insomnia has always been a huge issue for me. I can only just tolerate the insomnia at 60mg.


Greenhorn's Guide to Nardil - Colonelpoop - You must check this out. It actually helped me a lot when I got started...was real useful.

doxylamine succinate is perfectly safe: pregnant women take it for nausea and insomnia. As a matter of fact they're banned from taking benzos. So you can be certain, dox tabs are the safest for insomnia. But btw you can just alternate between benzos and unisom like I've mentioned earlier.

Yeah!! You can be at 60mg. Thats fine. *But I must warn you do not lower the dose at any cost till it starts to actually work - I bet, if you go any lower than 60, it won't work for you.* Maybe after 4-5 months once you're tuned to the side effects you can push it up to 75mg. Good luck.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

WillShakey said:


> Also, just to add... I usually have a couple of cups of coffee and a few protein shakes every day and again, no issues.


If I had too much coffee on an empty stomach, I'd get sick and have chest discomfort for the rest of the day. Two normal sized cups of coffee wouldn't bother me, but maybe that's the reason for your chest issues. Also, energy drinks were a big no no for me.

If your side effects aren't too bad, I'd see if your doctor is willing to up your medicine. 90mg is the max dosage.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Well I had a few good days, I think its starting to wear off now whatever it was 

Also getting very sedated/lethargic in the afternoon for some reason. How long does this last?


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Well I had a few good days, I think its starting to wear off now whatever it was
> 
> Also getting very sedated/lethargic in the afternoon for some reason. How long does this last?


You're perfectly fine man. I was there myself. Just keep taking 60mg every single day; not lesser for even 1 day. Just hang on till *29th July to 12th Aug 2011*, and you'll know what I mean. Just forget about how you felt the last 2-3 days, that was just a mere facade. So as every day passes by, remember you're gettin' closer and closer to a fantastic awesome life; just let that fact excite you/ don't let anything else get you down.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

*Ashwin*

How is the sexual dysfunction on Nardil? Also compared to the sex dysfunction on ssri's? Honest answer please  (no promo talk)


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Inshallah said:


> How is the sexual dysfunction on Nardil? Also compared to the sex dysfunction on ssri's? Honest answer please  (no promo talk)


Honestly, its pretty bad. None of the SSRI's gave me that side effect but nardil does


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Hi Shy-one!
> 
> Its really good to know that you've increased your dosage to 60mg. But just listen carefully - what your experiencing right now is a mild hypomania & euphoria; its a state of nil depression - felling good about oneself etc..., as you rightly put it. This happens to everyone who starts Nardil. But, this will go away in a couple of days to a 1.5 weeks. And you will again feel down (slightly depressed) at that point; but don't panic and quit.. this is not NARDIL yet. Its just a temporary side effect. If what you say is right (you started 60mg a few days back; and if you continued at 60mg or more but never less again), you should know the real deal by somewhere around *29th July to 12th Aug 2011*.


Are you sure it would work at 60mg though? Previously you mentioned that it would have to be 75mg or more. Am I wasting my time with 60mg? I really don't want to go up because the insomnia is kicking in at 60mg and it would be worse at 75mg.

Also how much do you weigh? I'm about 75kg.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Are you sure it would work at 60mg though? Previously you mentioned that it would have to be 75mg or more. Am I wasting my time with 60mg? I really don't want to go up because the insomnia is kicking in at 60mg and it would be worse at 75mg.
> 
> Also how much do you weigh? I'm about 75kg.


Of course 75mg will be better (Remember, I'm only at 75mg not more).. But, since you have pretty bad insomnia you can just stay at 60 which is far better than nothing at all. If you think you can manage your insomnia with doxylamine and benzos, I still think its pretty easy to manage your insomnia - I suggest that you push it up to 75mg. Thats what a lot of people do on Nardil. Or just make it 75mg ; and if its like so hard for you to manage; you can always bring it back again to 60mg. Funny, I was 85kg before I stared Nardil; and now I'm 82kgs. Good luck.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Of course 75mg will be better (Remember, I'm only at 75mg not more).. But, since you have pretty bad insomnia you can just stay at 60 which is far better than nothing at all. If you think you can manage your insomnia with doxylamine and benzos, I still think its pretty easy to manage your insomnia - I suggest that you push it up to 75mg. Thats what a lot of people do on Nardil. Or just make it 75mg ; and if its like so hard for you to manage; you can always bring it back again to 60mg. Funny, I was 85kg before I stared Nardil; and now I'm 82kgs. Good luck.


I have heard most people do get benefit from 60mg, and its often suggested to stay at 60mg for 4 weeks to see if it works, then if not bump it up to 75mg. That way there isn't so many side effects and you still have room to move up later if needed. Did you stay at 60mg for 4 weeks first, or did you go straight up to 75mg?

Given that you were 85kg when starting nardil you were still 10kg more than the 75mg dose. So being 15kg more (i'm 75kg), 60mg might be good for me.

What I find interesting is 45mg actually helped me sleep, while 60mg is giving me insomnia.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

One other thing, I heard that its best to take nardil at least 30mins after a meal, as this can minimise the risk of hypertensive crisis if there happens to be tyramine in the food. Is this true or would it be a myth?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> One other thing, I heard that its best to take nardil at least 30mins after a meal, as this can minimise the risk of hypertensive crisis if there happens to be tyramine in the food. Is this true or would it be a myth?


I thought hypertensive crisis can only come from eating the wrong thing


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

blakeyz said:


> I thought hypertensive crisis can only come from eating the wrong thing


"if there happens to be tyramine in the food"

Then again, if you're on an MAOI, you should be conscious about what you're eating anyway to be safe.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Duke of Prunes said:


> "if there happens to be tyramine in the food"
> 
> Then again, if you're on an MAOI, you should be conscious about what you're eating anyway to be safe.


Oh trust me I am, but I meant if you ate something that contained tyramine by accident (If you weren't aware of what was in something).


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

One other side effect i've noticed (other than the severe insomnia).

I seem to feel the cold a lot more than I used to. I used to love the cold weather in winter but now it can actually be uncomfortable at times. Is this likely to be a side effect of nardil? I'm thinking perhaps its related to lower blood pressure (less body heat circulating around).

Before nardil my blood pressure was on the high end of normal around 140/80, now its around 120/60. So nardil has lowered both sys/dia by around 20 points. Is this normal? I'm probably just lucky my blood pressure was on the high end of normal to start with, otherwise i'd probably be suffering hypotension now.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> One other side effect i've noticed (other than the severe insomnia).
> 
> I seem to feel the cold a lot more than I used to. I used to love the cold weather in winter but now it can actually be uncomfortable at times. Is this likely to be a side effect of nardil? I'm thinking perhaps its related to lower blood pressure (less body heat circulating around).
> 
> Before nardil my blood pressure was on the high end of normal around 140/80, now its around 120/60. So nardil has lowered both sys/dia by around 20 points. Is this normal? I'm probably just lucky my blood pressure was on the high end of normal to start with, otherwise i'd probably be suffering hypotension now.


I have noticed the same thing on Parnate
The next power bill is going to be huge because I always have the little fan heater on next to me


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

*29th July to 12th Aug 2011*

Hey Shy-One!!

Congrats your gettin' closer to your recovery date *29th July to 12th Aug 2011*. just a few more weeks bro. Keep it goin'... 

Ashwin


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Hey Shy-One!!
> 
> Congrats your gettin' closer to your recovery date *29th July to 12th Aug 2011*. just a few more weeks bro. Keep it goin'...
> 
> Ashwin


Only just hanging in there with the severe insomnia. I'm doubting whether it will work after all this  knowing my luck I'll go through all this insomnia and it won't even work. Been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and nothing. If this were an SSRI there is now way in hell I'd still be on it with such severe insomnia. If I don't get a response by end of august I'm going off it.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and having serious doubts whether it will work.

I cannot go to 75mg (ideal dose) because I can barely tolerate the insomnia as it is on 60mg. So I guess its 60mg or nothing. 

Am I wasting my time on only 60mg? I doubt its going to work


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## Weston (Sep 23, 2006)

shy-one said:


> Been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and having serious doubts whether it will work.
> 
> I cannot go to 75mg (ideal dose) because I can barely tolerate the insomnia as it is on 60mg. So I guess its 60mg or nothing.
> 
> Am I wasting my time on only 60mg? I doubt its going to work


I would try a week at 75MG. Nardil kicks in very suddenly when it works. Your right at the timeline where a week at 75MG worked for me. It's almost like a light switch turning on.

You can also try an over the counter sleep aid with Doxylamine Succinate. It's in one of the forms of Unisom and also generic copies. It was mentioned here and I was skeptical since it's an antihistamine. I 've used it quite a bit with no problems. Just test with very small amounts if you try it.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Weston said:


> I would try a week at 75MG. Nardil kicks in very suddenly when it works. Your right at the timeline where a week at 75MG worked for me. It's almost like a light switch turning on.
> 
> You can also try an over the counter sleep aid with Doxylamine Succinate. It's in one of the forms of Unisom and also generic copies. It was mentioned here and I was skeptical since it's an antihistamine. I 've used it quite a bit with no problems. Just test with very small amounts if you try it.


Can't go up yet with the insomnia this bad at 60mg, i'd imagine it would be even worst at 75mg. I'm getting 4 hours sleep on average at night, on 75mg i'd probably get nothing.

Yep, i've been taking doxylamine succinate most nights, and sometimes in combination with nitrazepam. Unfortunately its lost its kick for me, but it helps a little.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Can't go up yet with the insomnia this bad at 60mg, i'd imagine it would be even worst at 75mg. I'm getting 4 hours sleep on average at night, on 75mg i'd probably get nothing.
> 
> Yep, i've been taking doxylamine succinate most nights, and sometimes in combination with nitrazepam. Unfortunately its lost its kick for
> me, but it helps a little.


Shy-one:

Stay on 60mg until you get a response. Trust me results happen. You need to wait atleast 5-6 weeks at 60mg for a response. Going to 75mg now would be foolish if you are have bad side effects like severe insomnia. You need to fix the insomnia because poor sleep will work against you feeling better. I recommend you try flurazepam. My doctor recently switched me to it. It has a half life of up to 250 hours so tolerance, rebound insomnia, and rebound anxiety is not really an issue. I combine that with 1.5-3mg of melatonin and I have been sleeping 8-9 hours a night and feeling very refreshed. The long half life can make some people groggy the first day or two but you quickly over come that. Another thing that's great with the long half life is that the effectiveness builds because their are still metabolites in your body from the previous dose when you dose at night. Feeling very fresh and happy with results. I took 30mg of flurazepam at first and it was not very effective, so my p doc put me on 45mg and I slept like a baby. After a few days my sleep continued to improve and I lowered back to 30mg and sleep just as well due to it's long half life.

The only advantage of going to 75mg is that you will achieve faster mao inhibition which is a big deal, but side effects are harsher. I waited and am having excellent results at 60mg with minimal side effects. Stay at 60mg for a longer time. It will kick in. Good luck


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mr t said:


> Shy-one:
> 
> Stay on 60mg until you get a response. Trust me results happen. You need to wait atleast 5-6 weeks at 60mg for a response. Going to 75mg now would be foolish if you are have bad side effects like severe insomnia. You need to fix the insomnia because poor sleep will work against you feeling better. I recommend you try flurazepam. My doctor recently switched me to it. It has a half life of up to 250 hours so tolerance, rebound insomnia, and rebound anxiety is not really an issue. I combine that with 1.5-3mg of melatonin and I have been sleeping 8-9 hours a night and feeling very refreshed. The long half life can make some people groggy the first day or two but you quickly over come that. Another thing that's great with the long half life is that the effectiveness builds because their are still metabolites in your body from the previous dose when you dose at night. Feeling very fresh and happy with results. I took 30mg of flurazepam at first and it was not very effective, so my p doc put me on 45mg and I slept like a baby. After a few days my sleep continued to improve and I lowered back to 30mg and sleep just as well due to it's long half life.
> 
> The only advantage of going to 75mg is that you will achieve faster mao inhibition which is a big deal, but side effects are harsher. I waited and am having excellent results at 60mg with minimal side effects. Stay at 60mg for a longer time. It will kick in. Good luck


Yeah you're right. I have been tempted to go up to 75mg because I want it to work but I'm more likely to get fed up and quit if I do that.

After further reading on the dr-bob forums, it appears as though 60mg can often take 4 - 6 weeks to kick in. The "nardil champion" "ace" has mentioned this himself. Apparently it kicked him for him at 4 weeks on 60mg and gave him extreme euphoria (as you can tell from his posts).

So I'm really hoping its just around the corner for me, as i've been on it for 3 weeks now. But I have my doubts as no other antidepressant has ever worked (i've literally been through them all). Sometimes I feel like i'm meant to have depression and SA.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

On a side note, the other day my gf said I kept talking a lot (a lot more than usual). Apparently I also seemed more confident speaking to the waiter in the restaurant and made eye contact. I didn't even notice these things myself until she pointed them out. 

However I doubt its the nardil, its probably just more the fact i'm getting more comfortable being around her. If it were the nardil then i'd definitely know for sure (I still had a bit of anxiety). 

BTW why does nardil kick in so quickly (like a switch) for most people? I'm guessing it has something to do with MAO inhibition reaching a certain threshold? Once this threshold is reached the neurotransmitters are suddenly flooded? Still I can't understand why this wouldn't be gradual, and why there is a certain threshold.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

shy-one said:


> On a side note, the other day my gf said I kept talking a lot (a lot more than usual). Apparently I also seemed more confident speaking to the waiter in the restaurant and made eye contact. I didn't even notice these things myself until she pointed them out.
> 
> However I doubt its the nardil, its probably just more the fact i'm getting more comfortable being around her. If it were the nardil then i'd definitely know for sure (I still had a bit of anxiety).
> 
> BTW why does nardil kick in so quickly (like a switch) for most people? I'm guessing it has something to do with MAO inhibition reaching a certain threshold? Once this threshold is reached the neurotransmitters are suddenly flooded? Still I can't understand why this wouldn't be gradual, and why there is a certain threshold.


This is very exciting!!

Sounds like the nardil shy one. For me the nardil was not like flipping a switch. I noticed one day that I had less pronounced anxiety when my neighbors came over to visit. Usually I would feel a rush of anxiety, and it was still there but I noticed a small decrease. I also did not 
know if I should give nardil credit for the small decrease bc these neighbors had visited earlier in the week also. Then a few days later I noticed that more anxiety was blunted, and within two weeks of that first sign I was feeling great. Shy one, I believe that was probably the nardil. Some people claim to have an instant response but others are more gradually. Once you start seeing small signs like you did with the waiter I would expect you to improve weekly at this point bc this is just how nardil starting working for me!

Hope I am right and you have tremendous relief in 2-3 weeks like I did!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Thanks for the encouragement. This weekend will be 4 weeks on 60mg so hopefully it's just around the corner.

Despite all the negative side effects of nardil there have actually been two good ones. It has pretty much cured my IBS-D most of the time with the constipation side effect so it makes me close to normal. I have suffered severe IBS most of my life and tried many medications so it's wonderful.

Secondly I normally have high blood pressure (140/80) and nardil has actually lowered it to a healthier range of 120/70, no hypotension for me. Nardil is great if you already have high blood pressure.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. This weekend will be 4 weeks on 60mg so hopefully it's just around the corner.
> 
> Despite all the negative side effects of nardil there have actually been two good ones. It has pretty much cured my IBS-D most of the time with the constipation side effect so it makes me close to normal. I have suffered severe IBS most of my life and tried many medications so it's wonderful.
> 
> Secondly I normally have high blood pressure (140/80) and nardil has actually lowered it to a healthier range of 120/70, no hypotension for me. Nardil is great if you already have high blood pressure.


Yeah my blood pressure has gotten pretty low and the doctor suggested I lower the dose if I am having any symptoms but I haven't. My blood pressure was 91/53 when I checked it at CVS today.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mr t said:


> Yeah my blood pressure has gotten pretty low and the doctor suggested I lower the dose if I am having any symptoms but I haven't. My blood pressure was 91/53 when I checked it at CVS today.


What was it originally?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Just hit my 4th week exactly on 60mg and still no benefit 

I'm really starting to doubt if it will work now. I think i'll give it 6 weeks then consider going to 75mg if I can handle it in 2 more weeks.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Just hit my 4th week exactly on 60mg and still no benefit
> 
> I'm really starting to doubt if it will work now. I think i'll give it 6 weeks then consider going to 75mg if I can handle it in 2 more weeks.


Hang on bro!! you're real close...almost there.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Hang on bro!! you're real close...almost there.


I doubt it. Its been just over 4 weeks now and i'm really doubting it will work. At what point should I give up and go off it?

I'm so annoyed and disappointed that I went through all the side effects (especially insomnia) for nothing. What a waste of time.


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## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

To be honest ShyOne, I think you have to go to 75 mg to give it an adequate try, I know that sounds hard and obviously I'm not speaking from experience just from other people's post.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> I doubt it. Its been just over 4 weeks now and i'm really doubting it will work. At what point should I give up and go off it?
> 
> I'm so annoyed and disappointed that I went through all the side effects (especially insomnia) for nothing. What a waste of time.


I know how you feel
9 weeks on Parnate for nothing and now I have to wait 2 weeks until I can go on Imipramine


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jangle1 said:


> To be honest ShyOne, I think you have to go to 75 mg to give it an adequate try, I know that sounds hard and obviously I'm not speaking from experience just from other people's post.


Most people get a response from 60mg, I think I'll wait until the 6 week mark before going up, because I really don't want to unless I have to. Insomnia already bad enough on 60mg


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it might be finally starting to kick in!

Today at work I was chatting to people a lot more than usual with hardly any anxiety at all. Normally I only talk to them for work related matters (on a professional level), but today I was actually talking to some about what they are doing on the weekend etc. Normally I would think this, but would be too anxious to speak. I could also make a lot more eye contact than usual. 

I'm not sure if I was just having a good day or if its the nardil. I felt happier today but not euphoria  Aren't you supposed to feel euphoria when it first kicks in?

I guess I won't know if it was nardil until the next few days.

So far i'm at 5 weeks on 60mg (7 weeks total).


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I think it might be finally starting to kick in!
> 
> Today at work I was chatting to people a lot more than usual with hardly any anxiety at all. Normally I only talk to them for work related matters (on a professional level), but today I was actually talking to some about what they are doing on the weekend etc. Normally I would think this, but would be too anxious to speak. I could also make a lot more eye contact than usual.
> 
> ...


That's great! Yes, see how the next few days go. I don't know about the euphoria part, but I know I've felt slightly euphoric/manic the past few days and things are going really, really well, as you know - so maybe it has kicked in for me.

I hope things keep getting better for you.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Well I definitely have less anxiety, but still no euphoria. Less depressed, but no euphoria. So I wonder if the nardil is kicking in or not?

Has anyone on nardil had less anxiety but no euphoria? I thought everyone got the euphoria so I feel ripped off. I want the euphoria dammit. 

On a side note, it has definitely lowered my blood pressure more lately. I used to be like 140/80, now i'm like 110/67. Today when I was sitting and got up I felt really dizzy (like I was going to pass out) with blurred vision, I took my blood pressure and it was 74/44! But after sitting for 5 min it went back up to 110/67. Can this be normal for nardil when standing up sometimes? Strangely enough I didn't panic too much about it, normally i'd probably have a panic attack from seeing my blood pressure that abnormally low.

I'm also not as paranoid about certain foods anymore. I have been trying foods I normally used to eat, eg if they contained a little bit of cheese (but not a lot) and have been fine. Obviously i'll still stay away from actual cheese and things like salami and soy though. However i'm still tempted to try one of my fav thai dishes that would have a little soy.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

A few days later and anxiety is still less, but it isn't doing as much for depression. I can make conversation with people more easily, especially at work. 

I feel less depressed, but certainly not euphoric or really happy. It seems like it could be hitting GABA but not dopamine or serotonin? Has anyone else experienced this? I thought it should hit all three at once when it kicks in? 

So i'm still not 100% convinced its the nardil. Could it just be a really strong placebo effect on anxiety alone? I'm not sure if I should stay put on 60mg a bit longer or go up to 75mg in a week?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> A few days later and anxiety is still less, but it isn't doing as much for depression. I can make conversation with people more easily, especially at work.
> 
> I feel less depressed, but certainly not euphoric or really happy. It seems like it could be hitting GABA but not dopamine or serotonin? Has anyone else experienced this? I thought it should hit all three at once when it kicks in?
> 
> So i'm still not 100% convinced its the nardil. Could it just be a really strong placebo effect on anxiety alone? I'm not sure if I should stay put on 60mg a bit longer or go up to 75mg in a week?


I'd stay put for a while. It sounds like a least some parts of it have kicked in. Maybe the rest will just take time. You may experience even more/worse side effects at 75 mg. If you're doing A LOT better, stay where you are for the time being, and then you can evaluate whether an increase in side effects is worth it.

I'm in the exact same boat, as you know, at 45 mg. This is such a wonderful drug, but I'm curious if there's more. I'm content with 45 mg--80% percent better, I'd say. But could I get that up to 90%? And if I did, would it be worth it with the side effects?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I'd stay put for a while. It sounds like a least some parts of it have kicked in. Maybe the rest will just take time. You may experience even more/worse side effects at 75 mg. If you're doing A LOT better, stay where you are for the time being, and then you can evaluate whether an increase in side effects is worth it.
> 
> I'm in the exact same boat, as you know, at 45 mg. This is such a wonderful drug, but I'm curious if there's more. I'm content with 45 mg--80% percent better, I'd say. But could I get that up to 90%? And if I did, would it be worth it with the side effects?


So would you say you're euphoric? Is it having more effect on anxiety or depression?

Yeah the insomnia is only just getting better, I can usually sleep 5-6 hours a night now without sedatives. If i went up to 75mg it might get worse.

It just seems bizarre that its only hitting GABA. Perhaps it's just a placebo effect on anxiety alone.

During the day I also sometimes experience a mild pleasant tingling sensation on the outside of my skull which lasts about 5-10 mins each time. Do you get this as well?


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

How long does the mania phase of Nardil last?

I had to withdraw from Nardil after 2 weeks because I couldn't handle the feeling of mania. But then I had this problem with almost all the antidepressants I tried, Mirtazapine is literally the only one that doesn't do this but it's about a 0/10 for anxiety, although quite good for depression.

There's no doubt Nardil is the best antidepressant for anxiety though. Glad so many people on the forum are geting it prescribed, geting it in the first place is the hardest part for most people.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Wow you actually quit due to the euphoria? Why? That's what I'm hoping for, it would be nice to feel that happy.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> So would you say you're euphoric? Is it having more effect on anxiety or depression?
> 
> Yeah the insomnia is only just getting better, I can usually sleep 5-6 hours a night now without sedatives. If i went up to 75mg it might get worse.
> 
> ...


It's hard for me to tell the difference between euphoria and mania. I'm manic a lot of the times, which probably in turn increases my euphoria. It's not a negative thing. It's more hypomania. I'm extremely productive and happy.

It's hitting more of the anxiety. I still get depressed maybe once a week, but it's nothing like before. So, it's really hitting both, but the most profound effect is in the anxiety.

I don't get the tingling sensation. Does that happen randomly or right around when you take your dose?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> It's hard for me to tell the difference between euphoria and mania. I'm manic a lot of the times, which probably in turn increases my euphoria. It's not a negative thing. It's more hypomania. I'm extremely productive and happy.
> 
> It's hitting more of the anxiety. I still get depressed maybe once a week, but it's nothing like before. So, it's really hitting both, but the most profound effect is in the anxiety.
> 
> I don't get the tingling sensation. Does that happen randomly or right around when you take your dose?


I think it is making me happier a little, but that could just be due to not having as much anxiety. I want more though, I want to experience euphoria or at least a high level of happiness.

Perhaps nardil hits GABA first in some people? I'm hoping this is the case and the dopamine/serotonin will hit soon. As you said, the anti-anxiety effect is more pronounced than the antidepressant effect.

Lately I've been enjoying my job more as well because it seems easier talking to people, sometimes even enjoyable.

As for the tingly feeling, it seems to happen at a few random times during the day I think. I also feel a bit happier when it happens.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

For some reason, Nardils been making my blood pressure really low all the sudden. Like really low. I couldn't even walk around because when I got up everything went to bright fuzzyness and I couldn't even see. I fixed this problem by drinking alot of coffee or something with alot of caffeine in it. It sounds weird, but at the moment its the only thing thats helping my blood pressure, and I can see fine now. Has anybody else experienced really low blood pressure from Nardil for no reason at all like me?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

AprilEthereal said:


> For some reason, Nardils been making my blood pressure really low all the sudden. Like really low. I couldn't even walk around because when I got up everything went to bright fuzzyness and I couldn't even see. I fixed this problem by drinking alot of coffee or something with alot of caffeine in it. It sounds weird, but at the moment its the only thing thats helping my blood pressure, and I can see fine now. Has anybody else experienced really low blood pressure from Nardil for no reason at all like me?


Yep, Before nardil I was 140/80, now I'm usually 110/70. I also see bright fuzziness after standing up sometimes. One time I got really dizzy after standing and my blood pressure went down to 74/44! But slowly went back up after sitting down for 5 min.

I'm just glad my blood pressure was high to start with, otherwise I'd probably be passing out if it were already low. What was your blood pressure before starting nardil?

Also try eating salt, as that increases blood pressure I think.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> Yep, Before nardil I was 140/80, now I'm usually 110/70. I also see bright fuzziness after standing up sometimes. One time I got really dizzy after standing and my blood pressure went down to 74/44! But slowly went back up after sitting down for 5 min.
> 
> I'm just glad my blood pressure was high to start with, otherwise I'd probably be passing out if it were already low. What was your blood pressure before starting nardil?
> 
> Also try eating salt, as that increases blood pressure I think.


Before starting Nardil mine was always between 120/70, usually a little lower, but a good kind of lower. Now its like 100/68, around there. It was like 80 something over 50 something the other day which freaked me out.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

AprilEthereal said:


> Before starting Nardil mine was always between 120/70, usually a little lower, but a good kind of lower. Now its like 100/68, around there. It was like 80 something over 50 something the other day which freaked me out.


Was it 80 just after standing up? If so it's just postural hypotension and will return back to what it was if you sit again. Try to get up slowly


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Time for another update in my progress:

I'm getting more convinced that its the nardil kicking in. I would say it has reduced my anxiety by around 80% so far. At work I have been making small talk with people and even cracked a joke or two, something I have never done before. Most of the time I feel almost no anxiety in doing this, however I still occasionally think it over in my head first. 

In terms of depression, I think it is starting to help as well, but certainly no euphoria which i'm disappointed about. I had my hopes set on euphoria, but maybe I would experience this if I went up to 75mg. 

It didn't kick in until recently (5 weeks on 60mg), and I seriously thought it never would. So far it has the highest effect on my anxiety, but only a little with depression. I just hope it continues to get better, or I might go up to 75mg. Is it likely to improve much over the next week or two at 60mg?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Yea, I feel I'm where you are at with yours. Better anxiety, improved quite a bit. Depression, better. Could be better though. The closest thing I got with nardil a to euphoric state was the hit you get during the first few days. I've also got that brain tingle the odd time, also when happy I think..Is that the GABA? or DOP? I reacall someone talking about on here the peak effects at like 10 weeks.. toyboy or some one. Any go comments regarding effect at like 10 weeks. Keep me posted as will I.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> Yea, I feel I'm where you are at with yours. Better anxiety, improved quite a bit. Depression, better. Could be better though. The closest thing I got with nardil a to euphoric state was the hit you get during the first few days. I've also got that brain tingle the odd time, also when happy I think..Is that the GABA? or DOP? I reacall someone talking about on here the peak effects at like 10 weeks.. toyboy or some one. Any go comments regarding effect at like 10 weeks. Keep me posted as will I.


When did you start again and what dose? I recall you saying that you felt better only after a few days, but i'm guessing that turned out to be a placebo effect or the side effect of the drug? It would have to be, there is no way MAO could be inhibited that much after a few days....

The closest thing I go to the euphoria was when I first went up to 60mg and it only lasted a few days.

Interesting that you also get the head tingle thing, perhaps that is a sign of mild euphoria? When I feel my head tingle I get a mild wave of happiness as well.

If it doesn't reach the peak until 10 weeks, perhaps I should stay put on 60mg for a few more weeks in case it gets even better? The side effects are likely to be worse on 75mg, so it would be good if I can stay on 60mg ideally, providing I get enough benefit.

The anti-anxiety effect started about a week ago and I think its improving a little more each day. Possibly also the same with the antidepressant effect, but its hard to tell for sure yet. The anti-anxiety effect is a lot more pronounced, so its probably hitting GABA more than dopamine/serotonin.

I have literally been through all the SSRI's, a few TCA's, and combinations with antipsychotics etc. I would guess about 15 antidepressants in the past decade and not one of them helped. Nardil is the first antidepressant to give me any response, especially for anxiety.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> Time for another update in my progress:
> 
> I'm getting more convinced that its the nardil kicking in. I would say it has reduced my anxiety by around 80% so far. At work I have been making small talk with people and even cracked a joke or two, something I have never done before. Most of the time I feel almost no anxiety in doing this, however I still occasionally think it over in my head first.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry about not being able to experience the euphoria that most experience when Nardil first kicks in. The euphoria only lasts for 2 or 3 weeks and then goes away, so you're not missing much in terms of euphoria. Sounds like you're doing great. Your anxiety is 80 percent gone, your making small talk, cracking jokes, your depression is better. Just keep up the small talk and eventually you'll maybe even start to have conversations with others who you weren't able to before. Just remember, you gotta try. The Nardil is helping ALOT, but in the long run, its you who has to do the other half of the work. That goes for everyone here (the "you have to try part"), including me.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> When did you start again and what dose? I recall you saying that you felt better only after a few days, but i'm guessing that turned out to be a placebo effect or the side effect of the drug? It would have to be, there is no way MAO could be inhibited that much after a few days....
> 
> The closest thing I go to the euphoria was when I first went up to 60mg and it only lasted a few days.
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity what side effects are you getting besides insomnia?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Out of curiosity what side effects are you getting besides insomnia?


- Insomnia (biggest issue)
- Anorgasmia
- Mild hypotension when standing up sometimes. 
- Constipation, can only go about once a week. However this actually helps my IBS-D
- Darker and strong smelling urine
- Daytime fatigue (very rarely)
- Feeling colder than I used to (could be related to lower blood pressure)


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

AprilEthereal said:


> I wouldn't worry about not being able to experience the euphoria that most experience when Nardil first kicks in. The euphoria only lasts for 2 or 3 weeks and then goes away, so you're not missing much in terms of euphoria. Sounds like you're doing great. Your anxiety is 80 percent gone, your making small talk, cracking jokes, your depression is better. Just keep up the small talk and eventually you'll maybe even start to have conversations with others who you weren't able to before. Just remember, you gotta try. The Nardil is helping ALOT, but in the long run, its you who has to do the other half of the work. That goes for everyone here (the "you have to try part"), including me.


Very true. That is why I questioned if it was just a placebo effect. I thought nardil would magically cure my SA without doing anything. All it will do is remove the anxiety to allow you to do things such as talking to people etc. It can still be a little difficult at first because you're in the habit of avoiding people for so long (or all your life). So you also have to break certain habits.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> When did you start again and what dose? I recall you saying that you felt better only after a few days, but i'm guessing that turned out to be a placebo effect or the side effect of the drug? It would have to be, there is no way MAO could be inhibited that much after a few days....


If you'd done a little reading on here, which you obviously would have, the initial buzz was the "mania" that 60% of people are meant to experience when first taking. lasted a few days. Still always felt better then I did beforehand after that. Never thought about wanting to killmyself at any point after taking this medication. Felt like I could address people been disrespectful ect.. after a week of taking 30kg. As opposed to be to scared. I've been on like 6 weeks. Still have a way to go. Just takes time. An working to ward a good tolerable dose. Have just gone up to 60mg.. Been on for week.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> - Insomnia (biggest issue)
> - Anorgasmia
> - Mild hypotension when standing up sometimes.
> - Constipation, can only go about once a week. However this actually helps my IBS-D
> ...


Same here with:
-anorgasmia
-really bad smelling uring. it actually smells just like the medication.
-i have bouts of feeling colder too, but not too bad. 
-i had the hypotension when standing up for a few days, and it went away.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> Very true. That is why I questioned if it was just a placebo effect. I thought nardil would magically cure my SA without doing anything. All it will do is remove the anxiety to allow you to do things such as talking to people etc. It can still be a little difficult at first because you're in the habit of avoiding people for so long (or all your life). So you also have to break certain habits.


I'm glad that you are smart enough to realize that Nardil isn't a cure. The first time I was on it, I thought i was magically fixed too, and didn't try to go out and do things/interact with others, I thought it would just happen, but I didn't push myself. And yea, its gonna be difficult for all of us to break the habit of "avoiding people for so long" like you said. Its like a skill we learned that does noone any good. Are you seeing a counselor/therapist shyone? Just wondering, cause I've been seeing this one guy for like 3 months now, and its really helping me alot. Nardils helping tremendously while therapy is helping me with the stuff that Nardil doesn't magically fix. I'd reccomend a therapist to everyone here. Plus, the Nardil makes it alot easier to talk to/get to know and be yourself around whoever you decide to start therapy with.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

So I managed to get some seroquel for insomnia. About 5 years ago I took 25mg and it totally floored me even the next day. So this time I started with only 6.25mg which is cut into a quarter. No sedation so I took another 6.25mg and still hardly anything. Very strange considering it floored me 5 years ago. Might have to try a full 25mg tablet next time. What dose do others take for insomnia?


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

Oh I got taken off seroquel for insomnia and put on ambien for a short while. Now I just take benadryl lol. I used to take 50mg for Insomnia, even though this doctor once put me on 200mg, don't know what he was thinking lol, eventually though I built tolerance toward it and 50mg took longer to knock me out than before. I think 25mg should be fine, but not sure why you weren't put on a different med for insomnia.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Xande said:


> Oh I got taken off seroquel for insomnia and put on ambien for a short while. Now I just take benadryl lol. I used to take 50mg for Insomnia, even though this doctor once put me on 200mg, don't know what he was thinking lol, eventually though I built tolerance toward it and 50mg took longer to knock me out than before. I think 25mg should be fine, but not sure why you weren't put on a different med for insomnia.


I have been given benzos as well but can't take then every night due to tolerance. So seroquel is a better long term option. Sometimes also take doxylamine which is supposed to be similar to benadryl but more potent


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I'm getting some benefit from 60mg but feel I could get much more. Would you guys suggest I stay on 60mg a bit longer in case it improves or go up to 75mg now?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> I'm getting some benefit from 60mg but feel I could get much more. Would you guys suggest I stay on 60mg a bit longer in case it improves or go up to 75mg now?


How long have you been on 60mg? (keep in mind this meds build up effect is slow, so I've read anyay..)

Is seroquel a good med for sleep issues with nardil? don't build a tolerance ect?

Found this interesting from wiki. Hence should have no negtative effect on what nardil is trying to achieve?

"
This means Quetiapine is a dopamine, serotonin, and adrenergic antagonist, and a potent antihistamine with clinically negligible anticholinergic properties. Quetiapine binds strongly to serotonin receptors. Serial PET scans evaluating the D2 receptor occupancy of quetiapine have demonstrated that quetiapine very rapidly disassociates from the D2 receptor.[28] Theoretically, this allows for normal physiological surges of dopamine to elicit normal effects in areas such as the nigrostriatal and tuberoinfundibular pathways, thus minimizing the risk of side-effects such as pseudo-parkinsonism as well as elevations in prolactin.[_citation needed_] Some of the antagonized receptors (serotonin, norepinephrine) are actually autoreceptors whose blockade tends to increase the release of neurotransmitters.
Norquetiapine is the active metabolite of quetiapine. It has most of the effects of quetiapine with similar potencies, and is also a potent norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and muscarinic antagonist. Note that the data below is from another source (the official prescribing info for Seroquel), and the measure is different from the above (Ki vs. IC50). There are still order-of-magnitude discrepancies for D1, α1, H1 and M1.?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> How long have you been on 60mg? (keep in mind this meds build up effect is slow, so I've read anyay..)


6 weeks now.



> Is seroquel a good med for sleep issues with nardil? don't build a tolerance ect?
> 
> Found this interesting from wiki. Hence should have no negtative effect on what nardil is trying to achieve?


Yep, its probably the best antipsychotic to take while on nardil for insomnia as it blocks dopamine less than others. At such a low dose (eg 25mg) it really only has an antihistamine effect for sleep and won't do much else.

My plan is to alternate between benzo's, seroquel, and doxylamine to avoid tolerance issues. However there is less tolerance issues with seroquel compared to benzo's.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> 6 weeks now.
> 
> Yep, its probably the best antipsychotic to take while on nardil for insomnia as it blocks dopamine less than others. At such a low dose (eg 25mg) it really only has an antihistamine effect for sleep and won't do much else.
> 
> My plan is to alternate between benzo's, seroquel, and doxylamine to avoid tolerance issues. However there is less tolerance issues with seroquel compared to benzo's.


Cool mate. That's a wile on 60mg.. Regardless of what you decide to do.

Can I just ask mate. I have to say I'm pretty tempted by sound of seroquel.. In your opinion would I likely be cool just taking that one sleep aid?, or would I likely be chasing other meds, to swap up like you self? I ask as admittedly I have a very addictive personally. So will avoid opening a can of worms if I can.:um

I was once given Temaze, which I still have 10mg. though I seemed to build a tolerance to that after only two nights. Though the sleep issue from Nardil is a different animal, compared with anxiety sleep issues. Which I got that for. Sorry to harp on... Any advise appreciated.

O and is The Nardil sleep issue is something that comes right eventually? with out drug aids? Or is it a permanent side effect of taking these meds... Where the hell are all the people that have been on Nardil long term????? everyone here seems to just be starting... Did they all jump of bridges something?(<inappropriate):no


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

boostinggtir said:


> Where the hell are all the people that have been on Nardil long term????? everyone here seems to just be starting... Did they all jump of bridges something?(<inappropriate):no


I'm hoping they got better and left the forums.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> Cool mate. That's a wile on 60mg.. Regardless of what you decide to do.
> 
> Can I just ask mate. I have to say I'm pretty tempted by sound of seroquel.. In your opinion would I likely be cool just taking that one sleep aid?, or would I likely be chasing other meds, to swap up like you self? I ask as admittedly I have a very addictive personally. So will avoid opening a can of worms if I can.:um
> 
> I was once given Temaze, which I still have 10mg. though I seemed to build a tolerance to that after only two nights. Though the sleep issue from Nardil is a different animal, compared with anxiety sleep issues. Which I got that for. Sorry to harp on... Any advise appreciated.


Personally I like to alternate between a few different sleep aids. However, some people on the dr-bob forums only take seroquel for nardil insomnia.



> O and is The Nardil sleep issue is something that comes right eventually? with out drug aids? Or is it a permanent side effect of taking these meds...


I don't think the insomnia ever goes away completely, but it does get better after about a month. When I first went up to 60mg I was only sleeping about 3 hours a night without sedatives. A month later (and now) I can sleep about 5 hours without sedatives. With sedatives (eg benzos) I can sleep about 7 hours.



> Where the hell are all the people that have been on Nardil long term????? everyone here seems to just be starting... Did they all jump of bridges something?(<inappropriate):no


I noticed the same thing. Most of them have stopped posting on the forums because they no longer experience social anxiety thanks to nardil.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

In regards to the foods, today I decided to try my favourite pizza from a gourmet pizza restaurant. I figured it should be okay because they said the only cheese type on it was mozzarella (which is actually safe). I was a bit apprehensive so only had a few slices and to my surprise I was totally fine!

In regards to mozzarella I found this:

_By far, most reported fatal and nonfatal MAOI-related hypertensive reactions have been associated with the ingestion of cheese. [8] The restriction of all aged cheeses is universally accepted. However, not all cheeses should be banned. In this study, we analyzed mozzarella cheese and found extremely low amounts (0.01 mg/g), even when stored at room temperature for 5 days. The content of this part-skim mozzarella cheese is much lower than the 0.16 mg/g observed in our previous report of mozzarella cheese (28% milk fat). [8] Nevertheless, both concentrations would be regarded as safe when less than 30 g of cheese is ingested. Furthermore, the tyramine content provided in the current report is similar to the low concentrations reported for other mild and fresh varieties of cheeses such as cottage cheese, cream cheese, ricotta, and processed cheeses. _

So generally mozzarella is safe, especially if its made from part skim milk. This means that most pizzas are actually safe! However I wouldn't be having any pizza's with certain meats on them such as salami etc. Just make sure you ask them what type of cheese is on it, if its just mozzarella then there shouldn't be any problem, just don't over do it.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

shy-one said:


> So I managed to get some seroquel for insomnia. About 5 years ago I took 25mg and it totally floored me even the next day. So this time I started with only 6.25mg which is cut into a quarter. No sedation so I took another 6.25mg and still hardly anything. Very strange considering it floored me 5 years ago. Might have to try a full 25mg tablet next time. What dose do others take for insomnia?


I just started it a few nights ago for insomnia, I'm currently up to 50 mg, so I guess we'll see.

Prior to that I was on Mirtazapine which worked phenomenology well for insomnia, but the side effects were getting a bit much so I'm taking a break, and I've also been on Stilnox (Ambien) in the past but that never did much for me personally.

So like most things I guess it's individual. Good luck


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

jim_morrison said:


> I just started it a few nights ago for insomnia, I'm currently up to 50 mg, so I guess we'll see.
> 
> Prior to that I was on Mirtazapine which worked phenomenology well for insomnia, but the side effects were getting a bit much so I'm taking a break, and I've also been on Stilnox (Ambien) in the past but that never did much for me personally.
> 
> So like most things I guess it's individual. Good luck


Mirtazapine was ****ing crap to me.. Couldn't get out of bed, couldn't use my brain at work, as the sedated effect would linger most of the day.. affected driving performance ect..

seroquel better be nothing like that crap...


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> Mirtazapine was ****ing crap to me.. Couldn't get out of bed, couldn't use my brain at work, as the sedated effect would linger most of the day.. affected driving performance ect..


Haha yeah that's exactly why I've stopped taking it.


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

Really good bro!! I told you it was going to work... Now here's the next thing I suggest that you do..

Never split your doses.

*-> Always always take the full dose at the same time after breakfast. 
-> Never take a nap during the day, anytime. It destroys the effect..really..
-> Remember on some days Nardil might not work... Just keep taking the same dose; you'll be fine the next day.*

Just be on 60mg for about two more months, and then you can increase it to 75mg. Thats what I did, I stayed at 75mg for a long time; and I recently upped the dose to 90mg. 



shy-one said:


> Time for another update in my progress:
> 
> I'm getting more convinced that its the nardil kicking in. I would say it has reduced my anxiety by around 80% so far. At work I have been making small talk with people and even cracked a joke or two, something I have never done before. Most of the time I feel almost no anxiety in doing this, however I still occasionally think it over in my head first.
> 
> ...


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Ashwin said:


> Really good bro!! I told you it was going to work... Now here's the next thing I suggest that you do..
> 
> Never split your doses.
> 
> ...


"*> Never take a nap during the day, anytime. It destroys the effect..really.."

lol I sleep for two hours at work, then have another 3 or 4 at home.. (my only option) I wouldn't say it destroys the effect. lol But yea I guess your brain does reset on some level during you sleep, so may not be optimal.. o well. 
* How are you finding 90mg vs 60mg.. Do you happen to get the brain tingly effect when your feeling very happy or passionate? As I noticed I'm getting it quite a bit more on 60mg from 45mg... Can you please speak on how you're feeling at the mo?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Really good bro!! I told you it was going to work... Now here's the next thing I suggest that you do..
> 
> Never split your doses.
> 
> ...


I really don't think this matters. I've heard of lots of nardil users splitting the doses, because this also helps reduce hypotension and they still get benefit. Also there is no problem having naps during the day, I see no reason why this would destroy the effect.



> Just be on 60mg for about two more months, and then you can increase it to 75mg. Thats what I did, I stayed at 75mg for a long time; and I recently upped the dose to 90mg.


How long were you on 60mg for? Does the effect increase over time (eg a few more weeks) or is it likely to stay the same as it is now?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Originally I took 6.25mg (quarter of a pill) of seroquel and it did nothing, so got up later in the night and took another 6.25 at like 2am and still didn't help me sleep much.

So the other night I took 12.5mg at once (half a pill) and holy crap. Who would have thought that combining two quarters together would make such a difference? It helped me sleep and felt like unisom but only a lot more potent. However, I also needed to go to the bathroom during the night and I couldn't even stand. I ended up passing out and hitting my head on the bathroom wall. Don't know how long I was out for, but next thing I knew I was on the bathroom floor and wondered how the hell I got there. 

Seroquel will help with insomnia, but its not the pleasant kind you get with benzo's (feels more like unisom). It seems to make you very dizzy and disables your muscles. If you're going to take it be very careful if you need to get up during the night, and take it about 2 hours before you go to bed.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Originally I took 6.25mg (quarter of a pill) of seroquel and it did nothing, so got up later in the night and took another 6.25 at like 2am and still didn't help me sleep much.
> 
> So the other night I took 12.5mg at once (half a pill) and holy crap. Who would have thought that combining two quarters together would make such a difference? It helped me sleep and felt like unisom but only a lot more potent. However, I also needed to go to the bathroom during the night and I couldn't even stand. I ended up passing out and hitting my head on the bathroom wall. Don't know how long I was out for, but next thing I knew I was on the bathroom floor and wondered how the hell I got there.
> 
> Seroquel will help with insomnia, but its not the pleasant kind you get with benzo's (feels more like unisom). It seems to make you very dizzy and disables your muscles. If you're going to take it be very careful if you need to get up during the night, and take it about 2 hours before you go to bed.


****en hell, glad your ok, that is bad. Does the effect linger when you wake and throughout much of the day?


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

I guess different people have different side effects. I'm wondering if the Nardil had some interaction with the Seroquel to make it that much more potent. 

I've taken 200mg Seroquel before for sleep and never experienced anything like that or my muscles shutting off, it just knocks me out for a good while, but I developed tolerance to it which made it take longer to make me go to sleep. 

I'm glad my pdoc took me off seroquel though, not too fond of taking a anti-psychotic as a sleep aid, even though it does work for some people.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Originally I took 6.25mg (quarter of a pill) of seroquel and it did nothing, so got up later in the night and took another 6.25 at like 2am and still didn't help me sleep much.
> 
> So the other night I took 12.5mg at once (half a pill) and holy crap. Who would have thought that combining two quarters together would make such a difference? It helped me sleep and felt like unisom but only a lot more potent. However, I also needed to go to the bathroom during the night and I couldn't even stand. I ended up passing out and hitting my head on the bathroom wall. Don't know how long I was out for, but next thing I knew I was on the bathroom floor and wondered how the hell I got there.
> 
> Seroquel will help with insomnia, but its not the pleasant kind you get with benzo's (feels more like unisom). It seems to make you very dizzy and disables your muscles. If you're going to take it be very careful if you need to get up during the night, and take it about 2 hours before you go to bed.


Geez. Be careful!


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

boostinggtir said:


> ****en hell, glad your ok, that is bad. Does the effect linger when you wake and throughout much of the day?


The XR version doesn't but the normal Seroquel has a lingering foggy head in my experience


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Xande said:


> I guess different people have different side effects. I'm wondering if the Nardil had some interaction with the Seroquel to make it that much more potent.


I'm wondering the same thing too, since both meds can cause orthostatic hypotension the combined effect may have caused it, coz yeah 12.5 mg is a pretty tiny dose in it's own right.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I think i'm just very sensitive to anti-psychotics. I have tried seroquel before and also zyprexa, and I could only ever tolerate a tiny dose. 

Luckily the effect didn't linger on the next day and started to wear off in the morning.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Lately i've been having a fair bit of short term memory loss. Could this be from the nardil or just lack of sleep?

Has anyone else on nardil experienced memory loss?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Yea I slept a big 4 hours today.. good ol 60mg nardil... anyway, I'll be talking to the doc on Thursday.. I gota say, I'm a little concerned about the Seroquel having a negative effect on the Nardil. Guess I just have to try. 

Man, with 4hours sleep, like I still feel good thanks to Nadil, though not great like I did yesterday, due to the lack of. With four hours sleep, my typing and spelling skills a significantly reduced, I become somewhat forgetful, and of course lowish on energy, masked with a little bit of caffeine:boogie. Man sleep is important:idea lol


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Now that I think of it, I was a little more anxious at work today. Could this have been the seroquel?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Lately i've been having a fair bit of short term memory loss. Could this be from the nardil or just lack of sleep?
> 
> Has anyone else on nardil experienced memory loss?


I imagine it's from the lack of sleep. I've also found that benzos affect my cognitive abilities as well as memory.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

mjhea0 said:


> I imagine it's from the lack of sleep. I've also found that benzos affect my cognitive abilities as well as memory.


Correct.. Man I was feeling all on my high horse not needing/using any drugs to help with sleep, though the last two nights I've had only 3-4 hours sleep max,Thanks to the big 60mg.. Any less then 5 will have a significant effect on your connotative performance.

Someone pass me my coffee an sleep aid drugs... It is time:um


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Does anyone else sometimes get a burning sensation after they urinate? I'm guessing this has something to do with nardil in the urine, because you can certainly smell it and its a darker colour. Perhaps it makes it more acidic?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Haven't had that. Really you should be pissing clear-ish with a high water intake. Could be related to another med you are taking. Or even a std you contracted, that you aren't yet unaware of.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Does anyone else sometimes get a burning sensation after they urinate? I'm guessing this has something to do with nardil in the urine, because you can certainly smell it and its a darker colour. Perhaps it makes it more acidic?


Every now and then this happens to me. But I don't think it has to do with the Nardil. Perhaps something you ate/drank?


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## ntdc (Jun 29, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Does anyone else sometimes get a burning sensation after they urinate? I'm guessing this has something to do with nardil in the urine, because you can certainly smell it and its a darker colour. Perhaps it makes it more acidic?


you may have a kidney stone. drink a lot of water and/or cranberry juice. if it continues see a doctor as soon as you can.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Today I think I may have had a mild hypertensive crisis. I was at a restaurant and ate some braised beef in a red wine sauce with star anise (not sure what that is). About 45 mins later I felt weird, my scalp was REALLY tingly, I could feel my heart beating a little, I had nausea and felt like I was going to throw up. This lasted probably around 1.5 hours. I didn't have any headache though. My heart rate was also a bit slower at around 60bpm. I didn't have my blood pressure monitor with me so I couldn't see what my BP was. 

Does this sound like a mild hypertensive crisis? I'm not sure what was in the food that could have caused this. Perhaps it was the red wine or maybe there was soy in it?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Also thought i'd mention that the hypotension seems to be getting worse. I often have to get up from bed slowly or i'll feel really dizzy. 

Last night I think I also dreamed a bit for the first time. Does that mean that REM is coming back? I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. Perhaps this means the insomnia is getting better?

Still no euphoria  However it is still helping SA and depression, but not as much as I had hoped for. I think I should go up to 75mg but maybe not for a while seeing as though the hypotension is getting worse.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Today I think I may have had a mild hypertensive crisis. I was at a restaurant and ate some braised beef in a red wine sauce with star anise (not sure what that is). About 45 mins later I felt weird, my scalp was REALLY tingly, I could feel my heart beating a little, I had nausea and felt like I was going to throw up. This lasted probably around 1.5 hours. I didn't have any headache though. My heart rate was also a bit slower at around 60bpm. I didn't have my blood pressure monitor with me so I couldn't see what my BP was.
> 
> Does this sound like a mild hypertensive crisis? I'm not sure what was in the food that could have caused this. Perhaps it was the red wine or maybe there was soy in it?


I do not know if it was a "slight crisis", but normally beef (if not very old) and red wine (in reasonable amounts) are considered unproblematic... but maybe the combinantion as a whole made it, if the beef was some days older (not because of a bad restaurant, but because it gets a better taste) and the wine was one of the most tyramine-rich...

Moreover, I wonder what happens if one cooks wine (like for a sauce) so reducing the alcohol and water parts... does the tyramine stay in completely? because then a intensive red wine sauce could maybe have a tyramine-amount which is to be taken serious? 
I don't know it, just speculation...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

reflecting said:


> I do not know if it was a "slight crisis", but normally beef (if not very old) and red wine (in reasonable amounts) are considered unproblematic... but maybe the combinantion as a whole made it, if the beef was some days older (not because of a bad restaurant, but because it gets a better taste) and the wine was one of the most tyramine-rich...


Yeah, perhaps the meat was a bit aged by being slowly cooked in a broth. There may have also been some soy in the sauce.

There was no headache though, just a really severe tingly sensation and a lot of nausea. It came on rather quickly then disappeared rather quickly about 1.5 hours later.

Even though it may have been a mild reaction, it has still scared me.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

How's the sleep?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> How's the sleep?


A little better but it varies. Sometimes I can get 5 hours with no sedatives, 7 with sedatives.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> A little better but it varies. Sometimes I can get 5 hours with no sedatives, 7 with sedatives.


You're are blessed, lol but the sleep you have at this point, before it kicks in, is somewhat irrelevant..IMO You'll know when it hits. Should be soon. Given your 6weeks in an taking 60mg for a few weeks.

Look forward to hearing some positive things soon. :idea


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> You're are blessed, lol but the sleep you have at this point, before it kicks in, is somewhat irrelevant..IMO You'll know when it hits. Should be soon. Given your 6weeks in an taking 60mg for a few weeks.
> 
> Look forward to hearing some positive things soon. :idea


No, i'm now 7 weeks on 60mg.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Last night I broke up with my gf of a few months. Normally i'd be so depressed that i'd be out of control and suicidal. But this time i'm not too phased by it and can actually see there will be other girls that come along one day. 

It has to be the nardil, cause normally i'd be a complete mess now. Nardil allows me to stay calm and seems to put a barrier on my depression a lot of the time.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Last night I broke up with my gf of a few months. Normally i'd be so depressed that i'd be out of control and suicidal. But this time i'm not too phased by it and can actually see there will be other girls that come along one day.
> 
> It has to be the nardil, cause normally i'd be a complete mess now. Nardil allows me to stay calm and seems to put a barrier on my depression a lot of the time.


I'm sorry to hear about your gf. I am happy though that you can see things from a positive perspective. Just be mindful that the total ramifications may not have hit you yet, so if you do get a little depressed try not to let it bring you down. I know the times that are hardest for me are when I get depressed and I'm not expecting it.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Time for an update. I have now been on 60mg for 8 weeks and side effects are fading rather quickly over the past few days.

*Insomnia:* Much improved and can now sleep nearly 8 hours with a sedative.
*Hypotension:* Getting a little better, not getting as dizzy when getting up anymore.
*Constipation*: Gone, which is actually a bad thing because my IBS has returned. 
*Anorgasmia*: Slowly going away

So yes, it would seem that the side effects do fade over time (about 2 months). I think this means its time for me to go up to 75mg which I will be doing tomorrow.

I am still getting benefit from nardil, but yesterday I was a little more depressed but this could be due to other factors (eg lonliness from missing my gf). Still getting the anti-anxiety benefit as much as before but I think there is room for improvement. I can talk to people more in certain environments (eg work), but still wouldn't be able to go up to a random stranger on the street and start a conversation. I also want to be able to talk to people more in large group settings (eg a party).


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I have now gone up to 75mg. I was taking 3 tablets in the morning, and 2 at lunch. However I noticed my blood pressure was going down more than usual (75/45). So I have changed my dosing schedule to 2 in the morning, 2 at lunch, and one late afternoon.

For those on 75mg what is your dosing schedule? It would seem if you take too much at once (more than 2) you get a lot more hypotension.

Also how long does it take for a higher dose to show more benefit? I've heard 2 weeks is normally the average?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Hey mate.

Yea I've been on `75mg also about 1week. At the moment, I'm just taking 5 over the day, though, yes, 5 pills gets a little silly. I was thinking I'd go to 90mg,, then just 2x3 times a day, but given I'm still having sleep issues, that probably won't happen anytime soon. So will probaby do the same as you in the next few days. 2,2,1. On my prescription it actually says, 2, in the morning, an 1 in the evening, *when on 45mg*. Which just hasn't been updated. So I'd assume ur doseing would be correctly done like you said, an like I will start doing.

I'm going to try some low dose* amitriptyline* (for sleep aid) from my other doc in the next day or so, will let you know how I go.:yes

I'll also let you know when I feel so type of benefit from 75mg also.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I've been on 75mg a few days now and I can tolerate it ok. The side effects I mentioned before have probably come back a little, but nothing too major.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

For everyone else on nardil, please be careful of hypotension.

Last night I got up to go to the bathroom, all of a sudden I felt really dizzy and collapsed again. Only this time I hit my head hard against the basin and blood gushed out everywhere. I freaked out at first and thought I'd have to go to hospital but luckily it was only a minor cut. Now I have a huge bump on my head.


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

^ Do you know what may have caused that? A food you ate or something?


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## honeybee131275 (Jun 13, 2011)

Hi
Tip for hypotension: if it's during the night & you've been sleeping, the hypo will be more extreme, so even if your busting to go to bathroom, try to sit on the edge of your bed for 1minute (or as close as u can get without an accident, lol). It's because it's "postural hypotension", so it's the sudden elevation. This way you're giving your body only half the elevation at a time & half the risk of blackout. Think of it like spitting doses to reduce side effects. I learnt this the hard way, but never ended up with blood gushing!! Poor thing!


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## honeybee131275 (Jun 13, 2011)

Ps, I'm a Parnate girl, not Nardil but nearly all the same side effects.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

honeybee131275 said:


> Hi
> Tip for hypotension: if it's during the night & you've been sleeping, the hypo will be more extreme, so even if your busting to go to bathroom, try to sit on the edge of your bed for 1minute (or as close as u can get without an accident, lol). It's because it's "postural hypotension", so it's the sudden elevation. This way you're giving your body only half the elevation at a time & half the risk of blackout. Think of it like spitting doses to reduce side effects. I learnt this the hard way, but never ended up with blood gushing!! Poor thing!


I did sit on the edge of my bed for a few mins.

I think it may have been a combination of the unisom with the nardil. I took 2 unisom last night and i'm pretty sure its a muscle relaxant?


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## honeybee131275 (Jun 13, 2011)

Hmm, yeah, definitely could be the combo then, sounds like u know the tricks & are doing everything right. Hope I didn't come across like a tossR & hope u don't experience it again. Doc might have some ideas on next visit? Be well.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Hey SW, I've also noticed the same thing. More since upping to 75mg too, though nothing dramatic, just the odd random light headedness for me.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Progress update?


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Unisom's active ingredient, doxylamine succinate, is a strong, sedating anti-histamine with a high anticholinergic effect.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> Progress update?


Been on 75mg for nearly 2 weeks, no increase in benefit from 60mg so far. How long would it take until you get more benefit when moving up a dose?

Hypotension is still pretty bad at times. I try not to take unisom or seroquel anymore because it makes it a lot worse.


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## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

shy-one, I'm going to start Nardil next year, I'd just like to ask thusfar you mention you're about 80% improved. I also understand this medication has been the most effective medication you've taken for your SA. I just want to know what 80% looks like, are you able to converse with other people without physical symptoms? Does your mind still go blank? Basically I ask this because I'm going to need to overcome the majority of my SA if I'm going to be able to do well in interviews and I was just wondering what I can expect.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jangle1 said:


> shy-one, I'm going to start Nardil next year, I'd just like to ask thusfar you mention you're about 80% improved. I also understand this medication has been the most effective medication you've taken for your SA. I just want to know what 80% looks like, are you able to converse with other people without physical symptoms? Does your mind still go blank? Basically I ask this because I'm going to need to overcome the majority of my SA if I'm going to be able to do well in interviews and I was just wondering what I can expect.


Yeah i'm able to converse with others a lot more easily than before. However lately I haven't noticed it as much, perhaps because I've become more used to it? It seemed a lot more effective at the start when it first kicked in.

I was hoping for more, eg the euphoria and able to talk to random people on the street, but unfortunately this didn't happen. Mostly, it has made my job easier and more enjoyable as I have to talk to a lot of people throughout the day.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Been on 75mg for nearly 2 weeks, no increase in benefit from 60mg so far. How long would it take until you get more benefit when moving up a dose?
> 
> Hypotension is still pretty bad at times. I try not to take unisom or seroquel anymore because it makes it a lot worse.





shy-one said:


> Yeah i'm able to converse with others a lot more easily than before. However lately I haven't noticed it as much, perhaps because I've become more used to it? It seemed a lot more effective at the start when it first kicked in.
> 
> I was hoping for more, eg the euphoria and able to talk to random people on the street, but unfortunately this didn't happen. Mostly, it has made my job easier and more enjoyable as I have to talk to a lot of people throughout the day.


Hey fellow user. Yea, I also maybe fell the lesser effect to some extent also. Like I've changed heaps in terms of my personality, an been able to address people ect. Which is the person I always wanted to be, an knew I was, just caged by anxiety. Though the euphoria seems to have faded. Though on the flip side, I'm able to sleep. Hence the the euphoria was wile I felt like cracked out, when when you take crack, you can't sleep right.. If you get my point. Not that I do that ****. I'm going to go up to 90mg shortly, an see how I go, (am 100kg, not fat) though I'm thinking the dramatic effect hit at 60mg for me, an has since past. Though we will see. Has still given me my life back, though am not quite at all the way there, and was hoping to keep the on top of the world feeling, wile been able to sleep. Will see update on 90mg when/if I feel difference from. I've been taking growth hormone to sleep, an also improve well been and health. I gives me the most amazing sleep among other benefits. Like you had as a growing teenager ect.. Very deep. But that is a very outside of the squat solution. Though it's a great one. My skin has improved, I have more energy, losing bodyfat, I think sharper, and most importantly, I sleep like a baby. Though cost me around $80 a month. I just inject once before bed, an once when I wake. Anyway, will keep post on 90mg nardil. Take care, an keep us posted on any ups or downs from..


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Has anyone been taking vitamin B6 with nardil? Apparently its supposed to deplete it, so I tried taking some. 

However, the few times I've taken it, I think it actually made me more depressed the next day. Not 100% sure if it was just coincidence though. Is there anything else B6 could be doing to interfere with nardil?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I had been on 75mg for 3 weeks and no increase in benefit. So I decided to go back down to 60mg.

Even on 75mg my depression and SA was starting to creep back in. However I had a great weekend with a new girl i'm seeing, so I was on a high. The next day depression has come back in almost full swing, and now I feel the worst again since nardil kicked in. This happens most of the time when I've had a natural high, I tend to crash the next day (possibly due to dopamine fluctuations?). 

At this point i'm deciding whether or not I should stay on nardil, because I feel as though its no longer giving the benefit it did for a few months after it first kicked in.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> I had been on 75mg for 3 weeks and no increase in benefit. So I decided to go back down to 60mg.
> 
> Even on 75mg my depression and SA was starting to creep back in. However I had a great weekend with a new girl i'm seeing, so I was on a high. The next day depression has come back in almost full swing, and now I feel the worst again since nardil kicked in. This happens most of the time when I've had a natural high, I tend to crash the next day (possibly due to dopamine fluctuations?).
> 
> At this point i'm deciding whether or not I should stay on nardil, because I feel as though its no longer giving the benefit it did for a few months after it first kicked in.


I feel for you man
Have you been getting enough sleep and eating healthy ?
If the med works for you in some way then I would be doing everything i can, like exercise ect ect 
I was waiting for you to be one of those posters who start Nardil/parnate and then don't here from them again after 5 weeks because they are out living life and ****


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Now that I'm back down to 60mg, I think it is probably the sweet spot for me. 75mg increased the side effects, especially hypotension, insomnia, and anorgasmia. On 60mg I no longer have anorgasmia, and the insomnia and hypotension is a little less. I didn't even get any increased benefit on 70mg after 3 weeks, so no point staying there when the side effects are worse. 

The hypotension was killing me the most (especially in the morning), as I was taking 2 in the morning and 2 after lunch. So I tried dividing it into 4 doses and it helps a lot with the hypotension. Its a pain having to take it 4 times a day, but at least it improves the hypotension by around 40%. 

I have also noticed that I've put on nearly 5kg since on nardil, but this could also be due to exercising less (due to the hypotension and insomnia). 

I'm still undecided whether its working much or not at this point. I don't think its the wonder drug I hoped it to be, and I never got the euphoria. I felt best when it first kicked in at 60mg, but then it plateaued and slowly went down. My SA is only slightly improved in some environments eg at work. I still cannot go up to a stranger and start a conversation.

So overall i'm disappointed, but at least now I can say I have been to the top and tried the most effective antidepressant there is (especially for SA).


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Last night I decided I would challenge myself and went into a bar (two of them) for the first time in my life with a friend. Either i'm just being really determined or the nardil is helping *shrug*, but I've never even contemplated doing that before. I conquered a small part of my SA, and damn it felt good! When I was in there I kept thinking to myself "holy ****, I can't believe where I am, I can't believe i'm doing this!". I was also completely sober. 

I'm also wondering about different batches of nardil? The previous ones I had were from a different pharmacy and only had a few months left until expiry date. I have just started on a different batch from another pharmacy which has about 9 months before expiry. I also noticed that it smells slightly different. Could this batch be more effective? Has anyone else noticed this with batches before?


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

Nardil is dangerous and can cause (While on it) permanent insomnia, lack of libido, and a blunted affect. It also tends to poop out after a few months. Lastly, you cant mix about any drug with it and you have to diet.

Why not try another drug thats far more effective, improves sleep, and works for SA and depression in patients unresponsive to any treatments including ECT? You dont have to diet on it, and it does not build tolerance much at all.

Its called buprenorphine and it commonly is sold as suboxone and subutex with subutex being the better version.

At .2-1.6 mg doses its been shown to be extremely effective for SA and depression according to several studies including one at harvard. A google search would turn these up easily. 

Nothing works better for anxiety and depression than a real opiate ( it doesnt cover the problem up anymore than nardil does).


I have been using this off label for over a year and no longer have any SA whatsoever and ZERO depression. I have zero side effects and make good grades at a university. I have tried almost every psychiatric med out there and none can hold a candle to subutex.

If you want to be free of SA bad enough, find a way like i did.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

bben said:


> Nardil is dangerous and can cause (While on it) permanent insomnia, lack of libido, and a blunted affect. It also tends to poop out after a few months. Lastly, you cant mix about any drug with it and you have to diet.
> 
> Why not try another drug thats far more effective, improves sleep, and works for SA and depression in patients unresponsive to any treatments including ECT? You dont have to diet on it, and it does not build tolerance much at all.


I'm aware of the dangers with nardil and have been extremely cautious. And yes, i'm also aware of those side effects.

I have been through just about every other drug there is with no success, nardil was the only one I have got some benefit from. It is also known as the "gold standard" for SA. There is no other drug as effective as nardil for SA. Once you've tried nardil, you've basically been to the top.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

shy-one said:


> I'm aware of the dangers with nardil and have been extremely cautious. And yes, i'm also aware of those side effects.
> 
> I have been through just about every other drug there is with no success, nardil was the only one I have got some benefit from. It is also known as the "gold standard" for SA. There is no other drug as effective as nardil for SA. Once you've tried nardil, you've basically been to the top.


Wrong, opiates have always shown more efficacy they just are not used because of addiction issues and opiophobia. I will grant you that nardil can be very good and is the most effective conventional medication, with buprenorphine working better as an unconventional off label drug.

I myself have used naril and found it decent but with many many side effects. Buprenorphine is much more efficacious in sa with virtually no side effects and improved sleep rather than nardils terrible insomnia and diet restrictions.

I dont mean to bash nardil though, and really do hope it can work for you. I just fear it could cause a fatal hypertensive crisis, or poop or quickly as it often does.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

Keep your head up shy-one. I am finally feeling the therapeutic benefits of my particular MAOI, and I've been taking EMSAM since March.. 10 weeks on the max dose.

All I wanted from my medication was an upper hand to motivate myself into working on other aspects of my problems. It's allowing just that.. and to think I was just about to start Nardil. I wouldn't change a thing right now.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> Keep your head up shy-one. I am finally feeling the therapeutic benefits of my particular MAOI, and I've been taking EMSAM since March.. 10 weeks on the max dose.
> 
> All I wanted from my medication was an upper hand to motivate myself into working on other aspects of my problems. It's allowing just that.. and to think I was just about to start Nardil. I wouldn't change a thing right now.


Emsam is indeed a great maoi among the bunch. Are you taking the dose where it loses its selectivity and becomes an maoi a inhibitor as well?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

bben said:


> I just fear it could cause a fatal hypertensive crisis, or poop or quickly as it often does.


If you're responsible and do your research then a hypertensive crisis is pretty rare. I also have some emergency nifedipine to take in case I ever do get a major hypertensive crisis. Most hospital staff aren't trained in MAOI's, so your best bet is to take nifedpine, then get to hospital asap so they can monitor your blood pressure. That way you won't be sitting around for hours in ER until they decide what to do with you.

Some people are completely careless, never follow the diet restrictions and then wonder why they end up in hospital. I read one guy's experience where he ate blue cheese and salami from a platter and he wondered why he ended up in ER. I mean come on, blue cheese and salami? You're basically asking for it.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

bben said:


> Emsam is indeed a great maoi among the bunch. Are you taking the dose where it loses its selectivity and becomes an maoi a inhibitor as well?


Yeah, it should be reaching 70-80% inhibition at my max dose and work on MAO-A rather than just MAO-B. I think that was the major difference, the lower dose was just wasn't having an effect on MAO-B and now I'm getting all the benefits.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

shy-one said:


> If you're responsible and do your research then a hypertensive crisis is pretty rare. I also have some emergency nifedipine to take in case I ever do get a major hypertensive crisis. Most hospital staff aren't trained in MAOI's, so your best bet is to take nifedpine, then get to hospital asap so they can monitor your blood pressure. That way you won't be sitting around for hours in ER until they decide what to do with you.


Im glad to hear your doctor was smart enough to give that to you. From my understanding even with it, there is a possibility of immediate cerebral hemmorage prior to ingesting the nifedpine or after it. How is it working so far for you? Do you get empathetic effects, stimulant effects, does it increase hedonic tone, do you feel more intelligent or dulled, does it feel manic or natural, what are the side effects like, what did you try before it, what type of sa do you have?


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> Yeah, it should be reaching 70-80% inhibition at my max dose and work on MAO-A rather than just MAO-B. I think that was the major difference, the lower dose was just wasn't having an effect on MAO-B and now I'm getting all the benefits.


yes i really do think that the maoi-a component is very important and the two be raised together for some balance. I mean serotonin is after all the key neurotransmitter in mental disorders so i think preventing is breakdown is very important for dopamine to work correctly.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

shy-one said:


> If you're responsible and do your research then a hypertensive crisis is pretty rare. I also have some emergency nifedipine to take in case I ever do get a major hypertensive crisis. Most hospital staff aren't trained in MAOI's, so your best bet is to take nifedpine, then get to hospital asap so they can monitor your blood pressure. That way you won't be sitting around for hours in ER until they decide what to do with you.
> 
> Some people are completely careless, never follow the diet restrictions and then wonder why they end up in hospital. I read one guy's experience where he ate blue cheese and salami from a platter and he wondered why he ended up in ER. I mean come on, blue cheese and salami? You're basically asking for it.


I agree. It takes an intelligent analytical person to be able to handle maois and the diet, not something id give to an air head. However, depression and anxiety can make people do dumb things and destroy memory and reasoning. What if one was feeling suicidal and knew by eating aged cheese they could off themselves with great certainty. Perhaps the temptation would be too great and too simple.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

bben said:


> Im glad to hear your doctor was smart enough to give that to you. From my understanding even with it, there is a possibility of immediate cerebral hemmorage prior to ingesting the nifedpine or after it. How is it working so far for you? Do you get empathetic effects, stimulant effects, does it increase hedonic tone, do you feel more intelligent or dulled, does it feel manic or natural, what are the side effects like, what did you try before it, what type of sa do you have?


I'm not fully sure how its working to be honest.... some days are still bad and I wonder if its working, then other days I do things I normally wouldn't (eg last night) and I think maybe it is. Its a bit of a mixed bag. When it first kicked in I really noticed it though.

I don't feel any more or less intelligent etc. The side effects sucked (especially at the start) but are more bearable now. The worst two being insomnia and hypotension.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

shy-one said:


> I'm not fully sure how its working to be honest.... some days are still bad and I wonder if its working, then other days I do things I normally wouldn't (eg last night) and I think maybe it is. Its a bit of a mixed bag. When it first kicked in I really noticed it though.
> 
> I don't feel any more or less intelligent etc. The side effects sucked (especially at the start) but are more bearable now. The worst two being insomnia and hypotension.


that doesnt sound too bad, hopefully it gets better from here out as i suspect it will. I hear 6 weeks for full benefit sometimes.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

If there is anyone else experiencing bad hypotension/dizziness then I strongly recommend to break your doses up throughout the day, eg 4 times a day for 60mg. Yes its a pain, but it helps a lot. I previously used to take it twice a day and the hypotension was a lot worse. 

Also since getting this new fresher batch it feels different to the previous batches. Can't quite describe how or if i'm just imagining it, my head just feels a little weird. I've also noticed that it doesn't taste as bad or strong. Has anyone else noticed any difference in fresher batches with a longer expiry date before? For some reason nardil only has an expiry date of like 8-9 months max, compared to other drugs which have like 2 - 3 years.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Well this marks the end of my nardil journey. 

After much thought, I have decided to come off it. Unfortunately it is no longer giving me the benefit it did at the start, and the side effects are far outweighing it. The hypotension is killing me, to the point where I can't walk more than 5 mins without feeling like i'm going to collapse.

I have also put on 5kg since starting, and i'm unable to exercise to counteract this due to the severe hypotension. This means i'll just keep piling on the weight. 

When it first kicked in at 60mg it was pretty good for SA. However, this only lasted about a month and gradually pooped out. I even tried going up to 75mg but this made no difference and only worsened the side effects. 

On one hand i'm disappointed, because I expected much more from this drug. On the other hand i'm glad i'll no longer suffer the side effects and be able to eat what I want again without fear. I look forward to not being dizzy, and being able to get a good night sleep again. 

However, I can now say that I have been to the top and tried the most effective antidepressant there is for SA, even if it wasn't successful. From here i'll just have to wait until something else may come along in the future. 

Thank you all for your support and info regarding nardil. For those of you who are starting, I wish you all the best and hope it gives you better success than it did for me.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Sorry to hear bro. All the best with finding something else that helps. Let us know how you go with coming off the drug. I don't recall many people speaking on it. I'm currenly on my max, 90-105mg (105 given my large mass) 

Anyway, all the best bro.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Thanks man, how is it going for you? 105mg is a high dose! Are you having issues with side effects?

I'm not sure why the side effects got worse all of a sudden, it was a fresher batch of nardil from a different chemist, so maybe it was more potent or something? 

But even before that the benefit was wearing off. I always said if the side effects outweigh the benefit then there is going to be no point in staying on it, because I've had to make a lot of sacrifices with food etc. If it was working brilliantly, then I would have stayed on it, but it wasn't. 

I'm going to taper off over about 3 weeks, 1 week at 45mg, one at 30mg, then one at 15mg.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Parnate is still a option for you
I feel bad that you have given up on medication all together 
Fingers crossed I find something before that point


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

blakeyz said:


> Parnate is still a option for you
> I feel bad that you have given up on medication all together
> Fingers crossed I find something before that point


That's because I've literally been through everything, MAOI's were the only option left. Next option would be ECT, and if that doesn't work then god knows what's after that, suicide perhaps? I hope it doesn't get to that though.

Most Drs have pretty much given up cause there aren't any options left. I guess I'll have to hope some miracle drug comes out in the future.


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## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

At the maximum therapeutic effect on Nardil would you say you were pretty much functional? I was reading a few other threads about people where the effect wears off and they taper off then try it again and it works again. Something to discuss with your doctor, but it might be possible to regain that effect you initially had. Of course I'm not a doctor nor am I someone who taken Nardil (ok, I took two tablets, then got scared and stopped.) but ya, to tell you the truth, I don't think there is anything to try (that has a higher chance of working) after nardil.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jangle1 said:


> At the maximum therapeutic effect on Nardil would you say you were pretty much functional? I was reading a few other threads about people where the effect wears off and they taper off then try it again and it works again. Something to discuss with your doctor, but it might be possible to regain that effect you initially had. Of course I'm not a doctor nor am I someone who taken Nardil (ok, I took two tablets, then got scared and stopped.) but ya, to tell you the truth, I don't think there is anything to try (that has a higher chance of working) after nardil.


I think i've had enough of the side effects, I doubt any minor benefit would outweigh them now. Its pretty bad when you can't even walk properly without feeling like you're going to collapse.

Yes you're right unfortunately, if you've tried nardil then there is pretty much nothing else that will be as effective. Once you've had nardil, you've been to the top.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ok, I didn't think I would be writing in this thread again after deciding to quit, but perhaps nardil was working more than I realised...

Last night I made a new group of friends, was happy as I could be... had a big night out and we had dinner together. I was probably one of the most talkative at the table, and most of them were women! 

However, at the end of the night and the next morning i've crashed for no particular reason. I feel quite depressed again, to the level of depression I haven't felt for a few months (prior to nardil). I don't have much motivation today either, and I've started having thoughts of hopelessness again. I also met a girl that was interested in me, but towards the end of the night she stayed later with her other friends (after offering her a lift home), so I took it personally as if she went cold on me. Again, possibly an irrational negative thought (or maybe its true?). 

On wednesday last week I dropped my dose down from 60mg to 45mg (which i'm still at now). Just wondering, could it be this drop in 15mg bringing back the crash in my mood all of a sudden? Its not yet conclusive due to the events that happened last night (perhaps it was something else). 

What would you guys suggest I do? Stay put on 45mg for longer and see how my mood goes? If worse, then bump it back up to 60mg and stay on nardil?


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

If you can manage the diet/medications and the initial tolerance build up Nardil can be life-changing. After a 6 month break I am seriously considering starting it again after no success with Mirtazipine. However I am interested in anyone's opinions on Lyrica (Pregabalin) which seems to be working for some people with anxiety.


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Shy-One I've been following your posts in this thread for a while now, I admire yor determination through the side effects and have to say I'm really impressed with your results especially with your latest post.

Hey urbanspaceman, I was on Mirtazapine, while it's a good sleeping aid, it's not a very potent antidepressant unfortunately and has little to no effect on anxiety, compared to Nardil it's nothing. Lyrica has worked for some people very well, it's worth a go.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Maybe more isn't always better 
I always have gone max dose on medz with no problems but on Parnate 80mg was too much i think. The side effects on MAOIS at high doses make it counter productive.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Yep, 60mg was definitely the sweet spot for me, even though it did produce really bad side effects in the end. It was the hypotension that killed me the most, I could barely walk for more than a few mins without feeling like i'd collapse. I always got blurred vision, especially in bright sunlight. It came to the point where I couldn't even exercise anymore, so I couldn't do anything about the weight gain either. 

Still feeling depressed today. I am going to stay on 45mg for maybe another week just so I can see if it is conclusive that nardil actually was helping. The difference between 45mg and 60mg is huge, as I get almost NO side effects on 45mg, especially not hypotension. 

Let me also tell you something I did on the weekend. I walked into about 5 nightclubs. Yes you read correctly, nightclubs full of crowded people dancing. I had never been in one before and certainly never considered it, but I just thought i'd see what they were actually like. I didn't enjoy it as its not my scene, but the point is I still walked into them just to have a look. I never thought i'd be doing this in a million years. In fact this was previously my worst nightmare, up there with public speaking. 

Then there was the fact that I met up with a group of people for dinner which I had never met before (it was through an online meetup group thing). There were about 8 of them and 6 were women. I spoke to all of them, and looking back I was probably one of the most talkative at the table. No-one would have ever guessed I had social anxiety. 

So what brought on these events? That is a good question, and something i'm trying to figure out. The other day my p-doc said that most of my depression stems from SA and the lonliness it brings. He said if I can conquer my SA, then I can conquer most of my depression. I never actually thought of it like that so I said to myself "right that's it, i'm going to put everything into fighting the SA and hopefully the depression will ease". So I became so determined and said to myself that each weekend I'm going to try and do something social instead of sitting at home alone. I thought I would try meeting people at nightclubs first, but it wasn't my scene. So next I searched for online meetup groups and just went to one on a whim. Bingo, I enjoyed it and even made some friends. 

Now what was it exactly? Was it my sheer determination from what my p-doc said, or was it the nardil? Or maybe it was both? I pushed myself so hard, harder than I ever have before. I must have been less anxious than usual, because I would never even contemplate doing those things (especially going into a nightclub) in the past. 

I really wish I knew what one it was. Nardil is a strange drug, and perhaps you don't realise it was helping until you're actually off it. Maybe I just forgot how I used to feel?


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

I think you're possibly realizing the subliminal effects nardil has on you. Defintely something to consider as you decide what to do... maybe holding at 45mg and eventually coming back to 60mg will give your body more time to adapt to the hypotension? Might be worth asking your doctor what could possibly be done for drug-related hypotension? I monitor my BP everyday since mine is low as well, and when I find it down under 90/60 I consume caffeine or sodium to help stabilize it. Seems to work just enough to keep me conscious while standing up.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I am now down to 30mg and my REM phase has returned. Wow its weird to dream again after so long, but last night I had a nightmare and woke up screaming. I hope these don't continue as a withdrawal side effect. However I'm sleeping a lot better now and I'm actually being woken by my alarm for the first time in months!

I have also noticed a bit of leg twitching every now and then, could this be a bit of mild TD?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Depression becoming more frequent now, especially when I'm alone. I keep trying to push myself harder than ever to be more social and join groups etc, but despite this I think the depression is returning. Not sure if I can put it down to lonliness or due to the lower dose. 

What I really hate about depression/medication is that its so variable and difficult to put it down to something. If only it were conclusive and I knew what it was. Often we have to just guess. 

Still not fully decided on what I will do. If I continue to have more frequent days of depression i'll probably change my mind and up the dose again. I'm hoping if I did this i'll get the extra "kick" I first got when it kicked in at 60mg. That way I'll also know for sure if its conclusive or not due to other circumstances or a partial placebo effect. 

I just really wish it could be more conclusive than this. There are just too many variables in life. I just wish there was a test or something that would say "yes, this is the nardil is working by x%", to eliminate other factors such as environmental or placebo effects.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Ashwin said:


> Hey Shy-One!!
> 
> Congrats your gettin' closer to your recovery date *29th July to 12th Aug 2011*. just a few more weeks bro. Keep it goin'...
> 
> Ashwin


 dont you mean remission.:um


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## Giovanna (Aug 22, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Yep, 60mg was definitely the sweet spot for me, even though it did produce really bad side effects in the end. It was the hypotension that killed me the most...I couldn't even exercise anymore, so I couldn't do anything about the weight gain either.
> 
> The other day my p-doc said that most of my depression stems from SA and the lonliness it brings. He said if I can conquer my SA, then I can conquer most of my depression.
> 
> Nardil is a strange drug, and perhaps you don't realise it was helping until you're actually off it. Maybe I just forgot how I used to feel?


This is my story too and pretty much my experience with Nardil as well. My depression stems from SA. I have a love/hate relationship with nardil. It is the craziest AD I've ever been on. I started it in 2009 and have been on and off since. In my experience, nardil is a pretty serious roller coaster ride.

Shy-one, your posts have been very interesting and I'm glad you've been sharing your experience. Hope things work out for you.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Giovanna said:


> This is my story too and pretty much my experience with Nardil as well. My depression stems from SA. I have a love/hate relationship with nardil. It is the craziest AD I've ever been on. I started it in 2009 and have been on and off since. In my experience, nardil is a pretty serious roller coaster ride.
> 
> Shy-one, your posts have been very interesting and I'm glad you've been sharing your experience. Hope things work out for you.


I know what you mean about this "love/hate" relationship. I either can't stand the side effects or I love it when it actually works (especially when it first kicked in). Then when I feel its not working (when it probably is), I have another hate relationship with it again.

I think I was expecting too much from it. I was hoping this would actually bring me happiness or better still - euphoria. But I think it just simply reduces the level and frequency of depression to a "normal" level. The happiness then comes from environmental factors on top of this (eg doing things you enjoy/socialising). Does that make sense? Normally when my depression is there I don't feel like doing anything, but I think nardil gave me more motivation to do such things.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

For those of you on nardil, how good was it for SA? By that I mean, did it just help a little in everyday situations such as work and friends, or did it allow you to do crazy things like chat up a random girl on the street?

For me it just helped with everyday situations such as work and socialising. I could still never approach a random person (especially a girl) on the street and strike up a conversation. I have read reports of people being able to do this on nardil, so I was hoping this would also be the case with me.


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

I am currently on Mirtazipine and Citalopram...I've tried all SSRI's before and trycyclics - plus Venleflaxine...Nardil was the only med that I truly felt working but trying to change it for the current combination has been terrible...I'm starting a washout...I've found SSRI's to be counter-productive to anxiety....Sertraline being the worst for me...
Nardil kicked in quite quickly for me and after years of existing through bad days I felt like i was living again...it was worth the risks that go with taking the med.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

*sigh* I wish I could get Nardil. I don't know if doctors in UK or the NHS in general are against it, but I couldn't get it on script. And it's impossible to find any online pharmas that will ship it without a script.


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

I had to go in with the information and I'd exhausted a lot of possibilities with AD's...The UK system is terrible - up to 3-4 months to see a p-doc after a referral from the doc...I wonder how many people in the pits of despair never made it to the appointment?
If you've suffered long enough you should have the option to try a medication - If it was a physical pain? Keep Trying - Good Luck


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

urbanspaceman said:


> I had to go in with the information and I'd exhausted a lot of possibilities with AD's...The UK system is terrible - up to 3-4 months to see a p-doc after a referral from the doc...I wonder how many people in the pits of despair never made it to the appointment?
> If you've suffered long enough you should have the option to try a medication - If it was a physical pain? Keep Trying - Good Luck


Yeah you're right. It's astonishing really that a drug which has such life transforming effect on people with such a debilitating disease as SA can be denied Nardil or that it's not used as the front-line first choice treatment so people can start leading normal productive lives eh. It's not even like it's mega expensive or extremely dangerous..ok so it has diet restrictions, but I think many dr's in UK are just too afraid something will go wrong and they'll get the blame.

I've had SA for near on 20 years now and after trying every possible med there is on the NHS pretty much and being passed around all kinds of pdocs, and doing all kinds of therapy, I've pretty much given up on the NHS and doctors in general.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

urbanspaceman said:


> I am currently on Mirtazipine and Citalopram...I've tried all SSRI's before and trycyclics - plus Venleflaxine...Nardil was the only med that I truly felt working but trying to change it for the current combination has been terrible...I'm starting a washout...I've found SSRI's to be counter-productive to anxiety....Sertraline being the worst for me...
> Nardil kicked in quite quickly for me and after years of existing through bad days I felt like i was living again...it was worth the risks that go with taking the med.


So why did you go off nardil? After being on nardil I would NEVER go back to any SSRI, they simply just don't work. Its either nardil, or waiting until something revolutionary comes out in the future. SSRI's are simply a waste of time and money.

SSRI's are for babies, real men take MAOI's.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

So after having a few bad days of depression (which I believe was probably related to the drop of dosage), I have decided to stay on nardil for now (or at least a big longer) to see if my depression improves again. I've gone up to 45mg again from 30mg, and eventually up to 60mg if I can tolerate the hypotension again. 

This time my plan is to alternate between 60mg and 45mg, depending on the level of hypotension. If I find I get too much hypotension again on 60mg, i'll drop down to 45mg for maybe a week again. Some people say this is actually effective for depression, as you get that "kick" again when going back up. I have noticed that a drop in dosage takes around 3 days for the hypotension to wear off, and probably about the same for depression to return. 

Despite the horrible side effects (especially the hypotension and insomnia), there are three that I really like:

- Almost eliminates IBS
- Urination is much less frequent (anyone else notice this?)
- Body temp feels cooler (would be nice for summer in warm climates)

On a side note, has anyone else noticed any mild TD when coming off nardil? Every now and then my legs twitch a bit. 

Damn you nardil, why must I have such a love/hate relationship with you? You're like one of my ex's.


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## Giovanna (Aug 22, 2009)

First time starting and also withdrawing from Nardil I had twitching all over my body. Interestingly, that side effect has never re-occurred, even though I've started/stopped Nardil a couple of times now. Also every time I withdraw I go through a severe depression lasting a couple of days (I also get a lesser depression when I drop dosage down). Then after withdrawing comes the "relief" period of losing weight/edema, being able to walk without fear of fainting, not feeling drugged, etc. Then in about 2-3 weeks my dear old friend anxiety comes back. That no-good piece of crap always comes back.

I never get the cooling temp thing on Nardil, but I did get that on Parnate, and man oh man, was I cold. I do get a major increase in libido on Nardil and that's pretty nice.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Giovanna said:


> First time starting and also withdrawing from Nardil I had twitching all over my body. Interestingly, that side effect has never re-occurred, even though I've started/stopped Nardil a couple of times now. Also every time I withdraw I go through a severe depression lasting a couple of days (I also get a lesser depression when I drop dosage down). Then after withdrawing comes the "relief" period of losing weight/edema, being able to walk without fear of fainting, not feeling drugged, etc. Then in about 2-3 weeks my dear old friend anxiety comes back. That no-good piece of crap always comes back.
> 
> I never get the cooling temp thing on Nardil, but I did get that on Parnate, and man oh man, was I cold. I do get a major increase in libido on Nardil and that's pretty nice.


Sounds just like me. Once you come off or reduce your dose it feels good to walk again without feeling line you're going to faint. It's also nice being able to sleep all the way through the night. But then the depression/anxiety returns and you want to go back on it. You can't win 

As for the twitching I also get it over my body but more so in my legs. I'm guessing this is due to fluctuations in dopamine because antipsychotics can do the same.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Giovanna said:


> First time starting and also withdrawing from Nardil I had twitching all over my body. Interestingly, that side effect has never re-occurred, even though I've started/stopped Nardil a couple of times now. Also every time I withdraw I go through a severe depression lasting a couple of days (I also get a lesser depression when I drop dosage down). Then after withdrawing comes the "relief" period of losing weight/edema, being able to walk without fear of fainting, not feeling drugged, etc. Then in about 2-3 weeks my dear old friend anxiety comes back. That no-good piece of crap always comes back.
> 
> I never get the cooling temp thing on Nardil, but I did get that on Parnate, and man oh man, was I cold. I do get a major increase in libido on Nardil and that's pretty nice.


Yeah i was always freezing cold on Parnate 2
I attributed it to the lower blood pressure but am not 100% sure
Did you have many side effects with Parnate ? Did it work for you ?
Im thinking of trying Nardil next but didn't have any success with Parnate even at 80mg


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

blakeyz said:


> Yeah i was always freezing cold on Parnate 2
> I attributed it to the lower blood pressure but am not 100% sure


Was the coldness worst in your extremities such as your hands and feet? If so then yeah I think it may have been due to low blood pressure.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

jim_morrison said:


> Was the coldness worst in your extremities such as your hands and feet? If so then yeah I think it may have been due to low blood pressure.


A little bit in the hands but my whole body was cold so it was hard to really tell
I know what your getting at though


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## Giovanna (Aug 22, 2009)

blakeyz said:


> Did you have many side effects with Parnate ? Did it work for you ? Im thinking of trying Nardil next but didn't have any success with Parnate even at 80mg


I think just because you don't have success with one, doesn't mean you won't have success with the other. Although they are both MAOIs, they had quite different effects on me.

I had less side effects on Parnate than on Nardil. I wasn't as tired, or fat, and had less hypotension. The side effects I did have on Parnate: hyper/insomnia, anger, irritation, also I did start to have some hair shedding and totally freaked out about it, which was stupid, because it wasn't that bad, but there it is. Hair shedding is one of the less common side effects with Parnate.

But none of those side effects are that bad to me, and I would have stayed on it, but it just wasn't effective for the SA, so that's why I got off. Parnate was more agitating, while Nardil was relaxing and dealt better with anxiety. Parnate did help me focus on projects and I got a lot done while I was on it though.

What were your side effects on Parnate?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Giovanna said:


> I think just because you don't have success with one, doesn't mean you won't have success with the other. Although they are both MAOIs, they had quite different effects on me.
> 
> I had less side effects on Parnate than on Nardil. I wasn't as tired, or fat, and had less hypotension. The side effects I did have on Parnate: hyper/insomnia, anger, irritation, also I did start to have some hair shedding and totally freaked out about it, which was stupid, because it wasn't that bad, but there it is. Hair shedding is one of the less common side effects with Parnate.
> 
> ...


I didn't really have many. Felt like a pretty clean drug to me
The low blood pressure thing would usually happen about 2 hours after taking the pills and lasted for about 15 minutes. I had trouble pushing myself at the gym but it only really was bad when i was at 80mg.
It did work a bit for me for 2 days and then i drank alcohol and it never worked again after that no matter what i did.
I really think people should try it before Nardil as it's side effects seem to be better and it's not as toxic on the liver. Plus the nardil weight gain seems to effect nearly everyone as is why im hesitant to try it


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

urbanspaceman said:


> I had to go in with the information and I'd exhausted a lot of possibilities with AD's...The UK system is terrible - up to 3-4 months to see a p-doc after a referral from the doc...I wonder how many people in the pits of despair never made it to the appointment?
> If you've suffered long enough you should have the option to try a medication - If it was a physical pain? Keep Trying - Good Luck


Make that 2 years to see a pdoc an then its a pyhc nurse you see first.if you want to see him quicker , you would have to slit your wrist,s in the hospital waiting room.:yes an you wont get nardil or antiphycotics YOU MAY GET A SSRI OR A SNRI. so whats the point in going , you can get them from your gp/ a hospital shrink is not a thetopist he does just what you gp does, give meds end off


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> Was the coldness worst in your extremities such as your hands and feet? If so then yeah I think it may have been due to low blood pressure.


Mine was all over generally, I felt a lot colder than most people. I never used to feel the cold at all, but this winter I really felt it. I'm guessing it was either due to low blood pressure, or perhaps it lowers your body temp.

However, now that summer is approaching I am looking forward to feeling cooler than usual in the heat (hopefully it works that way).


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

After a few years on Nardil and trying to live and work abroad I decided to try to change meds...I tried mirtazipine that helped with sleep but unfortunately nothing else....after six months citalopram has been added but increased my anxiety to the extreme....
Does Nardil have the same effect when starting it again? I guess thats a personal thing.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

urbanspaceman said:


> After a few years on Nardil and trying to live and work abroad I decided to try to change meds...I tried mirtazipine that helped with sleep but unfortunately nothing else....after six months citalopram has been added but increased my anxiety to the extreme....
> Does Nardil have the same effect when starting it again? I guess thats a personal thing.


Why did you come off nardil?

Most people say it does work again, but it can sometimes take longer than the first time.

On a side note, I've been feeling much better today after going back up to 45mg, and its only been two days. I've heard people doing a trick where they lower it for a while, then increase it again to get its kick back? Perhaps that's whats happening. Anyone else that does this? If so how many days does it take you to feel the effects again after increasing the dose?

Nardil is such a strange drug, I can't work it out.


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

Decreasing and then increasing could be the answer when nardil levels out - which it can do...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

The magic of nardil is back!!! I can feel it flowing through my veins!!! I don't know what happened, but after going down to 30mg and back up to 45mg I've been feeling great! Lots more motivation again, and feeling more hopeful about the future. I feel as good (if not better) as I did when it first kicked in at 60mg for the first time. 

On the weekend i'm going to go out and socialise again and can't wait!

God bless you nardil, don't give me grief and we won't break up again!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

OMG I feel amazing tonight! This is the happiest i've felt in ages! I'm going to need to sedate myself just to settle down so I can sleep!!!

I hope this feeling never ends!!!

ALL HAIL NARDIL!


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Wow, keep us posted shy-one, these posts are really valuable to everyone on the forum. I'm so glad Nardil is working for you. You're using the best trick in the book in decreasing the dose and then increasing it when you want to. A lot of long term users do this.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> OMG I feel amazing tonight! This is the happiest i've felt in ages! I'm going to need to sedate myself just to settle down so I can sleep!!!
> 
> I hope this feeling never ends!!!
> 
> ALL HAIL NARDIL!


Keep an eye on yourself , you may be going manic an crash. I know you think a lot about nardil, but its a mad bad old fashioned med , with so may side effects an interaction,s . Its a med for the cronic sick who dont give SFA obout the body damage, Now lithium is a different story OLD yes , but a life giver , :yes I dont know if your lucky or unlucky to be on NARDIL, it would never be scripted in england for SA , or depression , strictly a cronic illness med. But if its life an death to you THEN FINE.:blank


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

Hope the nardil keeps going!


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> OMG I feel amazing tonight! This is the happiest i've felt in ages! I'm going to need to sedate myself just to settle down so I can sleep!!!
> 
> I hope this feeling never ends!!!
> 
> ALL HAIL NARDIL!


hahahahahaaha

hmmmm


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

shy-one said:


> OMG I feel amazing tonight! This is the happiest i've felt in ages! I'm going to need to sedate myself just to settle down so I can sleep!!!
> 
> I hope this feeling never ends!!!
> 
> ALL HAIL NARDIL!


:clap Any hypotension back at 45mg? May I ask what's your average bpm?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> :clap Any hypotension back at 45mg? May I ask what's your average bpm?


No hypotension! Don't have the euphoria today but still feeling good! Average bpm was around 90.

Strange that it's working at 45mg now, it took 60mg before.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> No hypotension! Don't have the euphoria today but still feeling good! Average bpm was around 90.
> 
> Strange that it's working at 45mg now, it took 60mg before.


Yea I had the crazy euphoria for around a week, an my posting on here reminds me of my own. haha, but yea, my sleep is messed up, but handled on 90mg. Nardil keeps me happy when I should be ect, and able to enjoy life. I take growth hormone to sleep. haha. That is very costly.

Hope you have better luck this time. Nardil has given me my life back.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Feeling a bit of euphoria again tonight! Night time is normally when i'm the most depressed, but now i'm actually happiest at night! I can't work out why its working at only 45mg now when it didn't the first time, truly bizarre.

There is definitely something about going up to certain doses that gives it a kick. The only other time it happened was a few days after I reached 60mg, but this only lasted a few days.

I can't work it out, because I didn't even get any increased benefit when I originally went up to 75mg. After that the hypotension got too bad, so I dropped down to 60mg again, but it was still unbearable. So that's when I decided i'd go off it. It wasn't until I reached 30mg when the depression started returning again, so I decided to give it one more crack by upping it to 45mg and now I feel great!

Why is it working so good at 45mg now when it previously only worked at 60mg? If it wears off at 45mg i'll increase it back up to 60mg. Once the hypotension gets too bad again i'll drop down to 30mg then back up to 45mg, then finally 60mg. Rinse and repeat. I hope this trick works. Anyone else done anything similar?

*For anyone else finding nardil pooping out or can't tolerate the hypotension, I strongly recommend you try this before giving up. Go right down to 30mg for a week, then as soon as the depression starts returning bump it up to 45mg and feel the magic again!*


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Feeling a bit of euphoria again tonight! Night time is normally when i'm the most depressed, but now i'm actually happiest at night! I can't work out why its working at only 45mg now when it didn't the first time, truly bizarre.
> 
> There is definitely something about going up to certain doses that gives it a kick. The only other time it happened was a few days after I reached 60mg, but this only lasted a few days.
> 
> ...


Gee what a strange medicine 
I wonder if this would have worked with Parante when I took it
Has your weight gain stabilized ?


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

blakeyz said:


> Gee what a strange medicine
> I wonder if this would have worked with Parante when I took it
> Has your weight gain stabilized ?


 He hasnt been on it that long to know yet. long term use is when all the side effects nuke you.:yes


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

foxy said:


> He hasnt been on it that long to know yet. long term use is when all the side effects nuke you.:yes


He said he already packed on 5 kgs


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

blakeyz said:


> He said he already packed on 5 kgs


 jesus man that would put me on a serious downer. that,s why there not used in england only has last resort. .I have see people from hospital i dont reconise now because of weight gain on miao,s,an the want off, sure ssri,s give you weight gain but not to that extent.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

foxy said:


> jesus man that would put me on a serious downer. that,s why there not used in england only has last resort. .I have see people from hospital i dont reconise now because of weight gain on miao,s,an the want off, sure ssri,s give you weight gain but not to that extent.


It's the only thing from keeping me trying it
Must be hard to be happy and really fat
I know it superficial but i will try Nardil as a last resort before i neck myself


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

blakeyz said:


> It's the only thing from keeping me trying it
> Must be hard to be happy and really fat
> I know it superficial but i will try Nardil as a last resort before i neck myself


 I tried the neck yourself bit, i dont recommend it


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

foxy said:


> jesus man that would put me on a serious downer. that,s why there not used in england only has last resort. .I have see people from hospital i dont reconise now because of weight gain on miao,s,an the want off, sure ssri,s give you weight gain but not to that extent.


What? I've lost 15 pounds since March on a MAOI. I think it depends on the kind of MAOI. I hear parnate is better than nardil in terms of weight gain.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

*sigh* the euphoria is gone  I knew it was too good to be true. It feels like depression is starting to set in again. 

It seems that trick is only good for about 2 - 3 days. So I guess its still good if you need to come out of a major depressive episode.

I might try going up to 60mg again soon.


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

I was on 75mg...it took the edge off things and helped with depression...not 100% but it helped...


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

Euphoria will never last long on any antidepressant.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

urbanspaceman said:


> I was on 75mg...it took the edge off things and helped with depression...not 100% but it helped...


Why did you come off?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> What? I've lost 15 pounds since March on a MAOI. I think it depends on the kind of MAOI. I hear parnate is better than nardil in terms of weight gain.


Yeah I think it's mostly just Nardil which is associated with weight gain, and AFAIK it's not due to it's MAO-inhibition anyway, but rather it's GABA-T inhibition.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> *sigh* the euphoria is gone  I knew it was too good to be true. It feels like depression is starting to set in again.
> 
> It seems that trick is only good for about 2 - 3 days. So I guess its still good if you need to come out of a major depressive episode.
> 
> I might try going up to 60mg again soon.


 You are looking for the holy grail an it dont exsist,you carnt go from met to med looking for a high, then when you get one you ramp it up. You are turning into a TOXIC DUMP of hard core meds. Get real buddy there is no %100 your heading for a hospital stay if you dont get a grip. Your treating meds like shopping, try one for size, wear it then take it back an swop it ,


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

shy-one said:


> *sigh* the euphoria is gone  I knew it was too good to be true. It feels like depression is starting to set in again.
> 
> It seems that trick is only good for about 2 - 3 days. So I guess its still good if you need to come out of a major depressive episode.
> 
> I might try going up to 60mg again soon.


 You've still made a lot of progress buddy. The Euphoria will come back! Just keep switching the dose, either increasing or decreasing it. It's a learning process, you'll find what works best for you soon enough. Are you still hitting it off with the ladies?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

After the weight gain and thinking I could manage without nardil (because i've been happier from being more social), I decided to try and come off it again about 4-5 days ago. So I dropped my dose to 30mg again, and sure enough once I hit the 4-5 day mark (yesterday) the depression returns. I now have no doubt that this is correlated to the nardil and not external factors or coincidence. 

But my question is, am I only getting depression as a withdrawal effect, or is it because i'm returning to how I used to be? If its just a withdrawal effect, then maybe I should try and ride it out and hopefully it will get better? However if not, then perhaps I should go back up and stay there? 

I have also been dreaming the whole night - its like i'm stuck in a constant REM phase and the dreams are usually quite bad. This also contributes to the depression the next day. 

Nardil can be very confusing  What should I do?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> After the weight gain and thinking I could manage without nardil (because i've been happier from being more social), I decided to try and come off it again about 4-5 days ago. So I dropped my dose to 30mg again, and sure enough once I hit the 4-5 day mark (yesterday) the depression returns. I now have no doubt that this is correlated to the nardil and not external factors or coincidence.
> 
> But my question is, am I only getting depression as a withdrawal effect, or is it because i'm returning to how I used to be? If its just a withdrawal effect, then maybe I should try and ride it out and hopefully it will get better? However if not, then perhaps I should go back up and stay there?
> 
> ...


Could be worth looking through your own post history to see how you were feeling before Nardil
Some people keep a daily diary when they take a med which would be useful in your type of situation i think.
Do you take vitamin B complex with it ? It could help


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I can't take this anymore, i feel so **** again. Going back up to 45mg cause I don't think I have a choice or I might end up in hospital at this rate.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

As for B6, yes I tried that but I think it actually made me feel worse! The B6 thing is a controversial one, apparently too much of it can also deplete nardil. 

Since trying to come off nardil I have been sleeping well but constantly dreaming, usually nightmares. They aren't ordinary nightmares either, its as if someone has gone deep into my sub-conscious and surfaced all the **** throughout my life, even fears of things I had as a kid. They are also VERY vivid. 

I have been feeling horrible all day. I woke up with feelings of hopelessness again and started thinking "what's the point in doing anything" and "i'm such a failure etc". I have no doubt this is due to the reduction in dose of nardil, but i'm unsure as to whether its a withdrawal effect, or simply returning to how I used to be before nardil? 

Nevertheless, I'm going back up to 45mg today and hopefully i'll get that few days of euphoria again. But this time I'll probably stay on it and go up to 60mg again. I feel like I don't even have a choice anymore, because if I keep going downhill like I am now i'll probably end up suicidal.

I have also been urinating frequently again, and forgot how annoying it used to be before nardil. Before nardil I used to have to urinate about every 1.5 - 2 hours, and sometimes more frequent if I was anxious/stressed. On 60mg of nardil I could easily go 5 hours without urinating. Does this happen to anyone else on nardil?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

shy-one said:


> Since trying to come off nardil I have been sleeping well but constantly dreaming, usually nightmares. They aren't ordinary nightmares either, its as if someone has gone deep into my sub-conscious and surfaced all the **** throughout my life, even fears of things I had as a kid. They are also VERY vivid.


It's REM-rebound, a common side effect of stopping MAOIs. Not pleasant, but passes.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Do you know why you used to urinate frequently ?
I have the same issue and I have no idea why. I don't even bother to flush the toilet as I know ill need to go again in a hour or so lol
Maybe medz dont work for us because we piss everything out so quick


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

blakeyz said:


> Do you know why you used to urinate frequently ?
> I have the same issue and I have no idea why. I don't even bother to flush the toilet as I know ill need to go again in a hour or so lol
> Maybe medz dont work for us because we piss everything out so quick


No idea, but anxiety makes it much worse. If I'm really anxious sometimes I can almost be urinating constantly or like every 5 min with a full bladder. At least I don't get this issue on nardil.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

bro Ima put it to you like this.. Yea you feel great from the initial euphoria, though that is not the Nadil, I think that's just a our brains reacting to the initial dopamine effect, which fades as the brain rebalanced it. 

Now, like your self, I was disappointed to learn that the euphoria is only temporary. I didn't even want to beleave people when people told me this on the board here. Now, with the real effect of nardil, I didn't feel the real effect till I hit 90mg. I was even having doubts at 70mg. Once I hit 90mg, I felt good, as long as well rested an not sleep deprived. I feel good. Not euphoria, though able to enjoy life as a person should. I've been good for a few months on that dose. 

If possible try up to 90mg, not on nardil, with out looking for some euphoria. Just a feeling of level headed. able to enjoy the good parts of life ect.

I was a ****ing mess before nardil, an I also got very down about not having the euphoria, till the real effect worked for me at 90mg.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

There is no way I can go up to 90mg. I struggled with the hypotension enough at 60mg which is why I wanted to come off. So I will probably alternate between 45mg and 60mg depending on how bad the hypotension gets again.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Is hypertension when you get real light headed an dizzy? Yea I came close to fainting last night. Though only get it at odd random times.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> Is hypertension when you get real light headed an dizzy? Yea I came close to fainting last night. Though only get it at odd random times.


Yes, hypotension is low blood pressure. On 60mg it got so bad that I couldn't even walk for 5 mins before getting blurred vision and feeling like I was going to pass out. Couldn't function at work either, so that's why I tried to come off it.

Some people say that once you have MAO inhibition you only require a "maintenance dose"? Is this true? If that is the case, maybe i'll get away with 45mg. The side effects are very mild at only 45mg, so I hope its enough to be effective.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> No idea, but anxiety makes it much worse. If I'm really anxious sometimes I can almost be urinating constantly or like every 5 min with a full bladder. At least I don't get this issue on nardil.


 IF anxierty mays you C*** yourself thats when it bad, an i dont mean on the toilet ,i mean in puplic you loose bodily function,. now thats anxierty at it most embarassing, keep banging the high doses of nardil an you will lose the body organs not you bladder function. Stick one bullet in the gun an spin the barrel , same game as a high dose of nardil. Jesus its S-A not SCHIZOPHRENIA :um


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

foxy, if you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, then please stay out of this thread.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

foxy said:


> IF anxierty mays you C*** yourself thats when it bad, an i dont mean on the toilet ,i mean in puplic you loose bodily function,. now thats anxierty at it most embarassing, keep banging the high doses of nardil an you will lose the body organs not you bladder function. Stick one bullet in the gun an spin the barrel , same game as a high dose of nardil. Jesus its S-A not SCHIZOPHRENIA :um


Nardil may not be the first line treatment for SA, but if the OP and his Doctor have made the educated decision that it's necessary for him to take and are using all the proper precautions then it's a fine choice. 
Some treatment-resistant people just do require Nardil, and at this stage, until something better comes onto the market that's just the way it is.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> foxy, if you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, then please stay out of this thread.


 The truth hurts i know , but the bottom line is you have S.A its hardly life threatning. Nardil is a hard core dru:bashg, come with me to my mental hospital an see the 18 year olds skit,s on nardil .Goodlooking kid,s with a massive mental illness ,turned into fat ugly elephant seals.You are messing with the mother of meds ,an swapping you dose like your underwear. Carry on an i will see you on the ward, but i wont reconise you you will be fat an posioned when you eat the wrong food without knowing, BUT hey who am i, just a mental patient who has seen it all. what about you.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

foxy said:


> come with me to my mental hospital an see the 18 year olds skit,s on nardil .Goodlooking kid,s with a massive mental illness ,turned into fat ugly elephant seals.


I don't know why a schizophrenic would be taking Nardil as it does not treat schizophrenia symptoms at all. It seems more likely that they were on something that does treat schizophreinia such as Zyprexa which does cause alot of weight gain.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

foxy said:


> The truth hurts i know , but the bottom line is you have S.A its hardly life threatning. Nardil is a hard core dru:bashg, come with me to my mental hospital an see the 18 year olds skit,s on nardil .Goodlooking kid,s with a massive mental illness ,turned into fat ugly elephant seals.You are messing with the mother of meds ,an swapping you dose like your underwear. Carry on an i will see you on the ward, but i wont reconise you you will be fat an posioned when you eat the wrong food without knowing, BUT hey who am i, just a mental patient who has seen it all. what about you.


I'm on 90mg of nardil an I'm currently dieting down to from 15% bodyfat, to 7% bodyfat for a bodybuilding competition. with Weight training and diet ect (consuming less calories then I burn) of quality proteins ect..This has caused my body to drop fat at a good rate.:clap


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

jim_morrison said:


> I don't know why a schizophrenic would be taking Nardil as it does not treat schizophrenia symptoms at all. It seems more likely that they were on something that does treat schizophreinia such as Zyprexa which does cause alot of weight gain.


 I am talking hospital cases, monitored last resort patients. Yes there are risk,s for these guys thats why there in hospital, but they have nothing to loose there life is s***.  Compair with SA its like night an day . Anyway you guys know best so get on with it , sorry for my concern:um ----------------------------------
Monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) antidepressants may cause excessive stimulation in hyperactive or schizophrenic patients. Symptoms of psychosis may be aggravated in schizophrenia, particularly that with paranoid symptomatology. Depressed patients, usually those with bipolar disorder, may experience a switch from depression to mania or hypomania. Therapy with MAOI antidepressants should be administered cautiously in patients with hyperactive or hyperexcitable personalities, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

foxy said:


> I am talking hospital cases, monitored last resort patients. Yes there are risk,s for these guys thats why there in hospital, but they have nothing to loose there life is s***.  Compair with SA its like night an day . Anyway you guys know best so get on with it , sorry for my concern:um ----------------------------------
> Monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) antidepressants may cause excessive stimulation in hyperactive or schizophrenic patients. Symptoms of psychosis may be aggravated in schizophrenia, particularly that with paranoid symptomatology. Depressed patients, usually those with bipolar disorder, may experience a switch from depression to mania or hypomania. Therapy with MAOI antidepressants should be administered cautiously in patients with hyperactive or hyperexcitable personalities, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.


MAOI's have saved more lives than the contrary. We're not here to be criticized, we all know the risks and have knowingly waived our previous noneffective treatments for MAIO's. Also, taking MAOI's is a very empowering direction of treatment, a lot of people spend years before doctors will feel comfortable enough to to try this line of treatment. When it works like nothing else before there's no greater feeling in the world, because ultimately WE decide what we put in our bodies.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> MAOI's have saved more lives than the contrary. We're not here to be criticized, we all know the risks and have knowingly waived our previous noneffective treatments for MAIO's. Also, taking MAOI's is a very empowering direction of treatment, a lot of people spend years before doctors will feel comfortable enough to to try this line of treatment. When it works like nothing else before there's no greater feeling in the world, because ultimately WE decide what we put in our bodies.


You are very correct, I have in my day took alchol way behond the death limit in self medication. You are young an looking for high,s as much has reilief from nardil.I am also on medication an addicted to one. BBBBut i am a cronic anxierty an depression suffer, but took no meds let alone nardil for SA though suffering since a kid with it. But i do live in england an we have a different slant to meds an so does the NHS. Combo meds american,s take for granted, are rare has unicorn S*** on the NHS, depression is treated with citaloprom or sertraline or mostly nothing but a pull you self out of it story. MAOI,S are resevend for the cronic sick do to back up care are mainly started in hospital to monitor patient for life threatning side effects ,like organ faliure an seisure, blood test every month , food restriction is drilled in your brain.So yes i got it wrong with you nardil taker,s for SA. I am in the wrong country to understand. OK if in england you were hospitalised for SA which by the way i have never seen while i have been in , you may get nardil. But you scare me ,a lot only mention the high.s they get. Well we take wiz E,s AN BLOW for high.s not body organ killer meds, stay safe an do what you like.:yes


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

You failed to grasp anyone's point here on relieving MAJOR depression and resulting co-morbid anxiety disorders with Nardil. I'm not looking for highs, wtf? Sounds like you have no grasp on American medicine practices either so I'd stop the hearsay and move on. Let's give shy-one his thread back since that's beneficial to people like me.

Any updates?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Well back to 45mg and baby i'm back! Even at 45mg it seems to be helping now I think. I'm really hoping this will be sufficient as a "maintenance dose" because the side effects are quite mild at this dose. 

Last night I went out with a friend to some bars etc. Spoke to a few girls and even versed two of them in a game of pool! Also went into a club which was PACKED with people, and some girl even started rubbing up against me as I passed her! lol. Keep in mind, I also did all this completely sober, not one drop of alcohol. So yeah, I think nardil does help. 

No euphoria this time from going up, but feeling a lot better again. Also more hopeful about the future and feeling more motivated.


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## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

Shy_One I don't mean to be too inquisitive, but even now with my SA I'm able to go into a club and be fine (dancing as well) of course with some alcohol (not too much)

also I'm also able to talk to girls as well, but not without quite strong physical symptoms of anxiety.

When you did these things, did you feel relatively at ease? I mean I'm sure someone without SA would still feel somewhat nervous talking to strangers, but I don't think they experience physical symptoms of panic like I do. Were your symptoms of panic gone? Your mind didn't absolutely go blank?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jangle, before nardil even the thought of going into a club/bar used to scare the **** out of me. Sometimes I wonder if its just my own will power or the nardil, but I think its both. The nardil gives me more motivation to do things (normally i'd just sit home alone), and also helps a lot with anxiety (including physical symptoms). 

Yes, I feel more at ease doing things like talking to girls since being on nardil. Its not perfect obviously as I still get anxious, but at least it allows me to things I could never do before. It also depends on the situation though.... if you go to a bar that has something you like in common (eg type of music), then it makes it easier to strike up a conversation. I have found a new bar in my city that is a video game bar, so it makes it easier to talk to girls. Sometimes they stand around and watch you play so then you can just ask if they would like to join you. Other times if you watch they might invite you to play against them etc. 

There are still some things I cannot do on nardil though, such as dancing. But then again I've never really liked dancing anyway, so part of it is due to the anxiety of people watching me, and the other part is that I just have no interest in it. Another thing I still can't do is strike up a conversation with a stranger, unless there was a reason to do it (eg common ground). 

Last night I was in a bar listening to some live music with a friend, and there was a cute girl my age who looked like she was alone and sitting opposite us. I really wanted to go up to her and say hi, but I was still very anxious about it. In the end my friend (who was drunk) went up to her and said "my friend over there wants to talk to you but he's too shy". Apparently she thought it was cute, but then a guy she met earlier came back anyway lol. As she left later she gave me a nudge on the arm and smiled at me. 

So yeah, that is a major challenge I would like to overcome. I would really like to be able to approach a girl like that, but I still get very anxious. For me, that is probably one of the most anxiety provoking things possible, probably a 10/10 which is up there with public speaking. It may take some time, but if I can ever get to the stage where I can do that, then I can probably say I've conquered my social anxiety.

As I've mentioned before, nardil has probably helped my anxiety/depression by around 70%, so its not perfect. I WAS hoping for more, but I guess its still good. But at least it actually DOES work, unlike any of the SSRI's. Also its not until you try to come off it that you realise how much it was working. Whether or not this is just a withdrawal effect or you were just returning to your original state or depression/anxiety isn't entirely clear though. Emotions and state of mind can be hard to remember.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> You failed to grasp anyone's point here on relieving MAJOR depression and resulting co-morbid anxiety disorders with Nardil. I'm not looking for highs, wtf? Sounds like you have no grasp on American medicine practices either so I'd stop the hearsay and move on. Let's give shy-one his thread back since that's beneficial to people like me.
> 
> Any updates?


Nobody mentioned major depression till you did just now. Im not a mind reader you say nothing on your profile ,an i have read your posts you have had every mental health symptom in the book in your threads,an tried near on all med,s ,you have wrote quite a few bad episodes on MIOA.S that you have had but that your choise to dismiss the warnings, As for AMERICAN medicine i was a member of phyco babble the daddy in its day on meds, with near all its member,s are treatment resistant, run by a psychitrist of major respect, The same members are still trying massive 6 med combos, verious strenths an types. they are still know further on in the health as the were 20 years ago.Most have most turned to god for help, but he dosent seem to hear them either. they are like walking toxic dumps ready to implode. Check out the site an see for yourself, to me i need meds, but less is more in my eyes i want things to help my brain, not kill my internal organs.


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## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

Well, to be honest, I don't really care if nardil doesn't take me to a point where I'm confident everywhere. Just being able to talk to people in my regular personality in a regular setting i.e. work or school would be absolutely amazing to me. 

I've forgotten what it's like to just be able to communicate with people free of panic or anxiety.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jangle1 said:


> Well, to be honest, I don't really care if nardil doesn't take me to a point where I'm confident everywhere. Just being able to talk to people in my regular personality in a regular setting i.e. work or school would be absolutely amazing to me.
> 
> I've forgotten what it's like to just be able to communicate with people free of panic or anxiety.


Yep, it has definitely made it easier to talk to people at work, but I'm greedy and want more lol.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Yep, it has definitely made it easier to talk to people at work, but I'm greedy and want more lol.


Thats cool with you an me , just so long as you know it comes with a price you dont know about yet. I did just the same at your age , an nothing could touch me. like me you will be nuked make no mistake, i hope your strong enough . The live fast die young plan is great at the time i must admit. :um


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Can we please try and keep this thread on topic? 

Just wanted to say that I went out again last night and made some more friends! Even had a girl give me her phone number the night before in case I wanted to catch up sometime. 

Without a doubt, this would have to be the most social I've been in my entire life, and its wonderful. I am now packing so many social activities into each weekend that I can barely keep up. Previously I used to sit home alone being depressed the whole weekend. I can't believe how much socialising helps depression, why didn't I see this earlier? It suddenly seems so clear now. My doctor was right, if I can get past the social anxiety, then my depression will also decrease dramatically. 

I really hope nardil keeps working at only 45mg, because I can tolerate the side effects at this dose. Perhaps I should get a tattoo on my arm saying "NEVER QUIT NARDIL" haha.


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## Weston (Sep 23, 2006)

foxy said:


> Nobody mentioned major depression till you did just now. Im not a mind reader you say nothing on your profile ,an i have read your posts you have had every mental health symptom in the book in your threads,an tried near on all med,s ,you have wrote quite a few bad episodes on MIOA.S that you have had but that your choise to dismiss the warnings, As for AMERICAN medicine i was a member of phyco babble the daddy in its day on meds, with near all its member,s are treatment resistant, run by a psychitrist of major respect, The same members are still trying massive 6 med combos, verious strenths an types. they are still know further on in the health as the were 20 years ago.Most have most turned to god for help, but he dosent seem to hear them either. they are like walking toxic dumps ready to implode. Check out the site an see for yourself, to me i need meds, but less is more in my eyes i want things to help my brain, not kill my internal organs.


Not seeing the point, MAOI's have helped me long term. My brain hasn't turned to mush and my liver tests are fine. Plus I have a normal family life that I could never have imagined when I was younger.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I think foxy is just a troll, please ignore him.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> I think foxy is just a troll, please ignore him.


correct.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Course you think that boys , because i tell you things you dont want to hear. Your flying at the moment an its good i know. One is chatting the ladies for the first time, I dont know what you will do if you actually pull one. Mabye she is into 280lb impotent men. Space cadett,s usually get blow out the first date , Look on the forum, boys im not a one trick pony like you guys, an answer one thread. Just trying to help you , its ok im off, i will watch you crash an burn from A SAFE DISTANCE.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

foxy said:


> Course you think that boys , because i tell you things you dont want to hear. Your flying at the moment an its good i know. One is chatting the ladies for the first time, I dont know what you will do if you actually pull one. Mabye she is into 280lb impotent men. Space cadett,s usually get blow out the first date , Look on the forum, boys im not a one trick pony like you guys, an answer one thread. Just trying to help you look at me *im invincable* guy,s. Its ok im off, i will watch you crash an burn from A SAFE DISTANCE.


What do you mean I'm not invincible?:roll


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Shy-One, this is pretty much the only thread I keep track of these days. Really glad the Nardil is working so well, it's amazing you're geting such great results at 45mg. All the stories about night clubs and socialising are really great and valuable to this forum. It gives other members so much hope for the future. Please keep giving us updates


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah it's interesting when someone gives updates when they are having success with a med. Eventually they stop posting because they are out living a life the lucky *******s.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

No worries guys, if I can at least help someone else out there then i'm glad. 

Just thought i'd let you know that i'm now having dinner with a girl tomorrow night! We met on the weekend and later she emailed me with her number if I ever wanted to catch up. 

I think its working at 45mg as a maintenance dose, because MAO inhibition has been reached. I just hope it stays like this.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Area88 said:


> Shy-One, this is pretty much the only thread I keep track of these days.


...


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

blakeyz said:


> Yeah it's interesting when someone gives updates when they are having success with a med. Eventually they stop posting because they are out living a life the lucky *******s.


True that! I know if my Parnate wasn't working I'd be on this site constantly.

What you're describing shy-one is similar to what I am beginning to experience, but to a lesser degree, (no phone numbers yet) and I can only manage 30mg Parnate at the moment. 40mg Parnate (like your 60mg dose of Nardil) causes too much hypotension. My doctor has reassured me the hypotension will decrease over time, so that's good news for both of us! :clap


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

shy-one said:


> No worries guys, if I can at least help someone else out there then i'm glad.
> 
> Just thought i'd let you know that i'm now having dinner with a girl tomorrow night! We met on the weekend and later she emailed me with her number if I ever wanted to catch up.
> 
> I think its working at 45mg as a maintenance dose, because MAO inhibition has been reached. I just hope it stays like this.


Curious, since you're going out more often to bars and such are you consuming any alcohol? If so, how are you tolerating it?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> Curious, since you're going out more often to bars and such are you consuming any alcohol? If so, how are you tolerating it?


Nope, no alcohol. I've never been a drinker as I hate the taste and have stomach problems. I also prefer to have a good time being sober.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Also I think the "maintenance dose" theory is true (well so far). You just have to find the right dose. For me 30mg was too little, and I could literally feel the depression returning within days of going down to 30mg. It seems 45mg (for now) is just right, and the side effects are very mild. 

For those starting nardil my suggestion would be as follows - try and get up to 60mg as quickly as you can tolerate it so you can reach MAO inhibition. Yes the side effects will be horrific at the start (especially insomnia), but try and tolerate it until it kicks in (normally 4 - 6 weeks once you've reached 60mg). Once it has kicked in at 60mg, try and stay on it a few more weeks until you can't possibly tolerate the hypotension anymore. At this point you should have reached MAO inhibition, so you can probably drop down to 45mg as a maintenance dose. 

Obviously this may vary for people (some may require 75mg or 90mg), but once you have reached MAO inhibition, then drop down after a few weeks if you cannot tolerate the side effects.

Nardil is a very difficult drug to master, and requires a lot of trial and error. There is a very fine line between the therapeutic effect and harsh side effects. Even as little as 15mg can make all the difference.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Time for another update.

I am still doing really well on only 45mg. The girl I was going to have dinner with bailed on me, removed me from facebook and never spoke to me again for no apparent reason or any explanation! Obviously this rejection brought me down a little, but I bounced back a lot quicker than usual and got on with it. Her loss, there are plenty of other women out there!

Every weekend I have been going out to social functions, to meetup groups, bars, etc. I am actually finding it hard to keep up with it all! I am making more friends than I ever have in my life, and have been talking to quite a few women in the right social environments.

At this point 45mg definitely seems to be the sweet spot, and the side effects are very mild compared to when I was on 60mg. Still a bit of insomnia (but not too bad), and no more hypotension!

For those of you struggling with the side effects of nardil, don't give up! Keep playing around with the dose until you find the best balance between efficacy and side effects. For me 30mg was too low (I could actually feel the depression return), and 60mg was too high for the side effects. It takes a lot of patience and trial and error, but eventually you will find the right dose for you. *Just remember that one 15mg pill can make all the difference!*

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get ready for my next social outing soon! More new people to meet!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

One side effect I forgot to mention (even on 45mg) is poor short term memory. At work I have been forgetting things that happened even the day before, so now I'm having to write down notes for everything. I'm guessing this may be due to the lack of REM, which supposedly helps memory. 

Anyone else find this?


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

Happy to hear the progress! My memory in general has declined a bit, and I definitely think its related to lack of REM sleep.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Still getting weight gain at 45mg ?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

blakeyz said:


> Still getting weight gain at 45mg ?


Too early to tell, but i'm thinking it would be less as I am now able to exercise. However I do often have a bloated feeling at times.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> Happy to hear the progress! My memory in general has declined a bit, and I definitely think its related to lack of REM sleep.


Its actually getting to be quite a problem and can be embarrassing at times. I have been meeting so many new people that I can't remember who does what etc, i'm getting them all mixed up! Not to mention things that happen at work.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I had a huge set back today with social anxiety. For work we had to attend these team building classes and interact with people in group exercises. The presenter also asked us things in front of the whole class (about 30 people). I got so anxious that I had to leave half way through because I was on the verge of a panic attack 

Why hasn't nardil helped in this situation? I don't get it. Every other situation I've been doing so well, i've been socialising in groups (outside of work), meeting new people etc.


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## Raidiant (Dec 14, 2009)

The context often makes it worst, because it was such a bad scenario in your psychology it may pass the threshold which the medication is helping you.

If I may suggest a benzo just for those kind of situation? I know benzos are looked down upon in the community, but it is an option that shouldn't be dangerous on Nardil.

If you work for a big company, which I have done in the past where these team building exercises are supplementary I would just say that "I am really uncomfortable doing this kind of thing in front of so many people, i'm really sorry I can't do it. I know it looks like ***** out, but people will respect you to some extent for having guts to admit you can't do it.

I work in a small company and sometimes if i'm not on medication and people ask me why are you so nervous. I just say "yeah i'm really nervous round you/today etc"

You're going to dig yourself a hole if you believe medication can solve all your problems, why not just enjoy how much better you are already feeling


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Thanks raidient, that makes sense. I think the context of the situation was so bad that not even Nardil could help. There will probably always still be a few things I can never do, but at least it has given me the ability to do a lot more that I previously couldn't. Yes I also take benzos sometimes but didn't have any with me  so yeah it was a horrible experience.


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## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Thanks raidient, that makes sense. I think the context of the situation was so bad that not even Nardil could help. There will probably always still be a few things I can never do, but at least it has given me the ability to do a lot more that I previously couldn't. Yes I also take benzos sometimes but didn't have any with me  so yeah it was a horrible experience.


Yeah I wouldn't sweat it too much, sounds like Nardil has helped you a lot already. Haha just reading about that situation made me a bit nervous. I would NOT want to be in that situation.


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## Ayudameporfavor (Jun 21, 2011)

> *Site-specific DNA damage by phenylhydrazine and phenelzine in the presence of Cu(II) ion or Fe(III) complexes: roles of active oxygen species and carbon radicals.*
> 
> Yamamoto K, Kawanishi S.
> *Source*
> ...


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

After 9 months off Nardil and trying Mirtazipiine and now Seroquel I think I will have to return to it...It's been a battle...I'm willing to put up with the risks as i did for over 5 years...Anyone had experiences with Nardil the second time around....Just have the fear it won't work...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

urbanspaceman said:


> After 9 months off Nardil and trying Mirtazipiine and now Seroquel I think I will have to return to it...It's been a battle...I'm willing to put up with the risks as i did for over 5 years...Anyone had experiences with Nardil the second time around....Just have the fear it won't work...


The fact that everyone eventually comes back to it says something.

I have heard that it normally works the second time round, but can sometimes take a little longer.

The past few days haven't been as good for me, not sure why though. I'm hoping its just a small blip and that its not wearing off.


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

Yes - Nardil certainly worked for me...I hope your blip passes...This is the longest period of full-on depression and anxiety for me...Don't see a p-doc for 2 more weeks...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

For those who are interested, I have been on 45mg for just over 2 weeks now and my weight seems to have stablised, so no more additional weight gain so far.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

After having a great week, I have crashed again  I recently met a girl and we went out on a date the other night, so I was as happy as I could be. Then about a day later I could feel the crash coming on. 

I think it may be due to the sudden surge then decline of dopamine, ie similar to a "come down" people get from an illegal drug such as ecstasy. Either that or perhaps I need to go up to 60mg for a while, until I can't tolerate the side effects again.

Coincidentally I have also had feelings of SA coming back. Yesterday I was out in public and I kept thinking about people watching me again and what they thought of me etc. This tells me that there is a possible correlation between dopamine and GABA levels.


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## Giovanna (Aug 22, 2009)

urbanspaceman said:


> After 9 months off Nardil and trying Mirtazipiine and now Seroquel I think I will have to return to it...It's been a battle...I'm willing to put up with the risks as i did for over 5 years...Anyone had experiences with Nardil the second time around....Just have the fear it won't work...


The second time around the initial side effects weren't so bad for me, so that's good. However, the "regular" side effects were just as bad (hypotension and weight gain mainly). The positive effects were the same.

This time around I can only get up to 15 mg every other day after being on 60 mg for 3 days, then 45 for 2. The side effects seem to be worse, and this time I'm getting insomnia and mental dullness, which I never had before. Even on such a low maintenance dose, however, I do feel a lessening of anxiety.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I have well and truly crashed and feel like ****, so i've decided to up my dose to 60mg again until I can't tolerate the hypotension again. Hopefully it will only take a few days before the magic returns.


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

Bro, maybe you could take something to raise your blood pressure like caffeine or cigs lol (jk) so u could take a higher dose of Nardil? I read every thread on Nardil I can find and it seems like 60-75 is where the magic happens. Or maybe u could add something to boost NE since the hypotension is related to NE


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

nardil seems like way too much of a roller-coaster of side effects mixed with good effects for me to want to pursue it...

does nardil relieve social anhedonia?thats my problem, i have a very hard time just enjoyign the act of socializing..

urbanspaceman-why did you get off nardil the first time around?the side effects too much?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Hercules7 said:


> Bro, maybe you could take something to raise your blood pressure like caffeine or cigs lol (jk) so u could take a higher dose of Nardil? I read every thread on Nardil I can find and it seems like 60-75 is where the magic happens. Or maybe u could add something to boost NE since the hypotension is related to NE


Yes, 60mg+ is normally the required dose to reach MAO inhibition. However, once this is reached some people can successfully drop down to 45mg to keep it going. I did this when the hypotension became unbearable.

However lately i've been having more frequent days where i'll feel depressed/anxious again for no reason, so i've gone back up to 60mg for a bit, until its unbearable again.

Nardil is a strange drug. It appears that once you've reached MAO inhibition it only takes a few days to feel a change in a different dose. For example, when I was on 45mg and went down to 30mg, I could feel the depression return in 2 - 3 days. On the flip side when I went back up to 45mg I felt it disappear again in 2 - 3 days. Therefore, i'm hoping it will only be a few days until I feel better again from going up to 60mg.

As you can see, nardil appears to be very dynamic once MAO inhibition is reached. I guess this is a good thing, because if you suddenly feel you're getting worse you only have to wait a few days to feel better after increasing the dose by as little as 15mg. The reverse is also true if you cannot tolerate the side effects (particularly hypotension).


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

belfort said:


> nardil seems like way too much of a roller-coaster of side effects mixed with good effects for me to want to pursue it...
> 
> does nardil relieve social anhedonia?thats my problem, i have a very hard time just enjoyign the act of socializing..
> 
> urbanspaceman-why did you get off nardil the first time around?the side effects too much?


Yes, I have got a lot more enjoyment out of socialising since nardil. Previously i'd just stay at home and be like "meh, whats the point". But I find that nardil gives me motivation to want to go out and socialise, because I now enjoy it.


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

Have u ever gotten relief from SA from any other med shy one? Have u ever taken paxil


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

wow, i cant imagine actually enjoying socializing..alost seems too good to be true and it almost is as nardil seems to come with plenty of nasty side effects..


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Hercules7 said:


> Have u ever gotten relief from SA from any other med shy one? Have u ever taken paxil


Nope, been through literally every SSRI including Paxil with no success. SSRI's are useless for the majority of people.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

belfort said:


> wow, i cant imagine actually enjoying socializing..alost seems too good to be true and it almost is as nardil seems to come with plenty of nasty side effects..


Yep, since Nardil I have been going out to bars, making new friends, socialing in groups etc. Never would have done this without Nardil.

Yes the side effects can be nasty, especially hypotension and insomnia. You just have to find the right balance of dosage to minimize it while still getting the therapudic effect.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

^^is there a nardil success rate??i mean, do most people seem to respond like you or no??just by reading this thread its hard to say..


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

belfort said:


> ^^is there a nardil success rate??i mean, do most people seem to respond like you or no??just by reading this thread its hard to say..


From what I've read it's about 70%, as opposed to SSRI's which are about 20%


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Yep, since Nardil I have been going out to bars, making new friends, socialing in groups etc. Never would have done this without Nardil.
> 
> Yes the side effects can be nasty, especially hypotension and insomnia. You just have to find the right balance of dosage to minimize it while still getting the therapudic effect.


 Just a thought , if your doing stuff like socialising makeing friends on nardil. Now you have broke the circle of SA and do thing,s, why do you still need the nardil. You have friends socialise have a laugh the very thing you wanted.Are you saying your friend,s will ditch you an the world will end if you stop. Meaning you have now done what you achieved why now do you need nardil. Or you need to be nardil nuked for life, to achieve what you now have.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

foxy said:


> Just a thought , if your doing stuff like socialising makeing friends on nardil. Now you have broke the circle of SA and do thing,s, why do you still need the nardil. You have friends socialise have a laugh the very thing you wanted.Are you saying your friend,s will ditch you an the world will end if you stop. Meaning you have now done what you achieved why now do you need nardil. Or you need to be nardil nuked for life, to achieve what you now have.


fail... I though you said you'd stop talking **** about nardil usage??


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

shy-one said:


> After being through all the SSRI's and some TCA's without success, I finally managed to convince a doctor to let me try nardil.
> 
> After reading many success stories of nardil, I always said that if my depression/SA became too severe again i'd be going straight for the big guns (nardil) and not waste any more time mucking around with ineffective SSRI's. Its time to blow this depression and SA out of the water.
> 
> ...


Hi if you don't mind me asking where did you get the Nardil as you don't sound like you're taking it on prescription going by your question on dosage?


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

After 8 months off Nardil I started it again yesterday (60 mg daily - this week)...Fingers crossed it will kick in like it did the first time 6 years ago...within 2 weeks....Go knows I need need it...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

DK3 said:


> Hi if you don't mind me asking where did you get the Nardil as you don't sound like you're taking it on prescription going by your question on dosage?


From a doctor. Correct, I manage my own dosing as nardil is a very dynamic drug once MAO inhibition is reached. Its not like an SSRI where you have to stay put on a set dosage.

With nardil, a change in dosage can be noticed within only a few days once you have reached MAO inhibition. As mentioned previously, if I were to drop down to 30mg the depression would return in 2 - 3 days, and if I went up again it disappeared. There is also a very fine line between tolerably of side effects (particularly hypotension) and the therapeutic effect. Therefore, you may need to go up and down according to this.

If I followed a rigid dosing routine that some doctors suggest, I wouldn't even be able to walk now as i'd be stuck on 60mg with severe hypotension (which is what happened before). However, by managing my own dosing, I am able to go up to 60mg when things get worse for a while, then drop back down to 45mg when the hypotension gets too bad again.

A lot of people seem to be forgetting how dynamic nardil is. It isn't like the SSRI's where you have to stay on a fixed dose.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

shy-one said:


> If I followed a rigid dosing routine that some doctors suggest, I wouldn't even be able to walk now as i'd be stuck on 60mg with severe hypotension (which is what happened before). However, by managing my own dosing, I am able to go up to 60mg when things get worse for a while, then drop back down to 45mg when the hypotension gets too bad again.
> 
> A lot of people seem to be forgetting how dynamic nardil is. It isn't like the SSRI's where you have to stay on a fixed dose.


I have a feeling you will be able to tolerate 60MG much better this time around. Do you try to take the doses during meals or do you tend to dose on an empty stomach? Augmenting caffeine is really not a bad idea for some, I'd just be careful with it around unusual foods. I'm at 50mg parnate/day, NO side effects except some insomnia. I'm surprised I got to where I am so quickly considering my starting dose of 30mg was way too much a month ago.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> I have a feeling you will be able to tolerate 60MG much better this time around. Do you try to take the doses during meals or do you tend to dose on an empty stomach? Augmenting caffeine is really not a bad idea for some, I'd just be careful with it around unusual foods. I'm at 50mg parnate/day, NO side effects except some insomnia. I'm surprised I got to where I am so quickly considering my starting dose of 30mg was way too much a month ago.


I think you may be right. So far this time around I haven't had as bad hypotension yet, but from what I recall it took some time to come (a few weeks). However, I can definitely notice it a bit, and feel slightly weaker again.

As predicted, I have now bounced back after upping the dose to 60mg. Starting to feel a lot better and last night I even went out on a date on the spur of the moment!

Nardil is a bizarre drug I tell you! Someone needs to write a book or something called the "n00bs guide to nardil". I think a lot of people give up because they haven't experimented with it enough. It is a tricky drug to master, and there is a lot to learn. Soon I will probably write my own guide to nardil on here to share my experience/knowledge and to hopefully help others new to it.


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## urbanspaceman (Sep 18, 2011)

Foxy - your a wind-up merchant...What does 'nardil nuked for life' mean? There are plenty of people who have lived with nardil for decades...It's early days in the guys treatment - it's obviously not time to suddenly quit taking the med...Anyway - why am i wasting my time...Your posts need to be automatically jumped...You offer no real constructive criticism...


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

urbanspaceman said:


> Foxy - your a wind-up merchant...What does 'nardil nuked for life' mean? There are plenty of people who have lived with nardil for decades...It's early days in the guys treatment - it's obviously not time to suddenly quit taking the med...Anyway - why am i wasting my time...Your posts need to be automatically jumped...You offer no real constructive criticism...


 Bit late with the post on this buddy, if your on nardil for social anxierty good luck when you try to come off, every thread dont have to be sweetness an light does it, shy one is on a roller coaster of up an down , flying 1 minute crashing the next. Every post does not have to have a one sided view like you would like. Or i would just suggest HEROIN, an all are troubles will disappear for a short time anyway, a bit like nardil. But then again its easier to get off heroin than nardil long term


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

After going up to 60mg again, I virtually have no hypotension this time! If anyone else is getting unbearable hypotension then I strongly suggest you drop down to 45mg for a while again, then up to 60mg again later once you're more used to it. 

Doing quite well again on 60mg now, so i'll be staying put. Side effects are also much less than the first time around on 60mg. Insomnia is still there, but a lot less (I can sleep around 6 hours now). 

So yeah, the side effects DO ease with time, you just have to stay on a lower dose for longer and go up slowly. A lot of people get too impatient and push it up too quickly.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> After going up to 60mg again, I virtually have no hypotension this time! If anyone else is getting unbearable hypotension then I strongly suggest you drop down to 45mg for a while again, then up to 60mg again later once you're more used to it.
> 
> Doing quite well again on 60mg now, so i'll be staying put. Side effects are also much less than the first time around on 60mg. Insomnia is still there, but a lot less (I can sleep around 6 hours now).
> 
> So yeah, the side effects DO ease with time, you just have to stay on a lower dose for longer and go up slowly. A lot of people get too impatient and push it up too quickly.


Glad you held out. yea the 60mg killed my sleep for ages. Is only just getting stable now. An I started around a 5 weeks before you. I'm on 90mg.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*When treating depression with Nardil, the dosage typically starts at 15 mg, three times a day. This will likely be increased to 60 mg, divided into smaller doses. As soon as your depression symptoms are under control, your healthcare provider may choose to decrease your Nardil dosage. Make sure to take your doses at the same times each day to maintain an even level in your blood. have a nice day
It's important to understand Nardil warnings and precautions before starting the drug, including potentially life-threatening side effects. Nardil may cause hypertensive crisis (a dangerous increase in blood pressure), potentially lethal food and drug interactions, and suicidal behavior. Nardil warnings and precautions also extend to people who are allergic to any components of the drug, have congestive heart failure, or have severe kidney or liver problems.

*


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

***** please...


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

boostinggtir said:


> ***** please...


 i didnt write it , thats nardils fact sheet for depression , no mention of SA :no


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

foxy said:


> i didnt write it , thats nardils fact sheet for depression , no mention of SA :no


Thanks for your kind words.. Could you please reference that info?


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

boostinggtir said:


> Thanks for your kind words.. Could you please reference that info?


 http://www.rxlist.com/nardil-drug.htm:no


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

foxy said:


> http://www.rxlist.com/nardil-drug.htm:no


You seem like a very unhappy individual. I am sorry things are not going so well for you, but people come here for help. No need to belittle them. If they find help in nardil or any other medication then great.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

The only reason why i've been on a "roller coaster" is because i'm still trying to get the dose right, it takes a lot of trial and error. Nardil is a drug that requires a lot of experience. 

After being on 60mg for a week I started getting more insomnia and a little hypotension (but not much). I also noticed more weight gain. Unfortunately i've now put on nearly 7kg since I started nardil. 

So i've dropped back down to 45mg again until I have another few bad patches. This is just so I can catch up on better quality sleep and not put on too much weight. 

I recently saw my pdoc, and he was very impressed with my progress. He actually said alternating between 45mg and 60mg is a good idea and that I should keep doing it. 

On the weekend I also had a date with yet another girl. I think i'm up to 3 or 4 now in the past month! And get this, she actually said "you talk a lot" which was a compliment!!! Normally girls say to me "you're so quiet". 

The girls just keep on coming. Apparently I seem more confident as well, perhaps this is why they are showing more of an interest *shrug*.

I just wanted to say - I LOVE NARDIL!


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> The only reason why i've been on a "roller coaster" is because i'm still trying to get the dose right, it takes a lot of trial and error. Nardil is a drug that requires a lot of experience.
> 
> After being on 60mg for a week I started getting more insomnia and a little hypotension (but not much). I also noticed more weight gain. Unfortunately i've now put on nearly 7kg since I started nardil.
> 
> ...


Good stuff mate. Definitely a rough start for me also.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> The only reason why i've been on a "roller coaster" is because i'm still trying to get the dose right, it takes a lot of trial and error. Nardil is a drug that requires a lot of experience.
> 
> After being on 60mg for a week I started getting more insomnia and a little hypotension (but not much). I also noticed more weight gain. Unfortunately i've now put on nearly 7kg since I started nardil.
> 
> ...


 Just a point , what do you expect from these girls, because it wont be a sexuall relationship .NARDIl will kill dead your libedo long term impotent on high dose. Also you wilL be fat as well has impotent. Its going to be a special lady that take,s you on mabye a nun. Read the info its for cronic depression ,an when a patient hits 60mg they need to drop to 15mg an stay at that as not to distroy your organ,s . The more mg the fatter you get an the less chance your penis will work for sex.:yes


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Oioioi123 said:


> You seem like a very unhappy individual. I am sorry things are not going so well for you, but people come here for help. No need to belittle them. If they find help in nardil or any other medication then great.


 ACTUALLY I AM HAPPY , I suffered cronic anxierty not just social anxierty plus major depression ,All kept at bay by minimum ssri,s an benzo,s. i dont ballon in weight an have a megga sex life. . infact sex kept my anxierty at lower levels from the feel good factor. To good really has i had 3 kids to different women before 21 but remain cool with the kids. If you dont think im trying to help what do you think im trying to do. Do you think i get a kick out of seeing a kid on a last resort dangerouse med, I managed till 30 without a benzo never mind a powerful organ thrasher like nardil. I ploughed on through, haveing the odd drink to chill an a good bunch of buddies. So dont ever think if trying to dish him , i try to help. but ok he dont want it so im out of hear.:roll


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

foxy said:


> Just a point , what do you expect from these girls, because it wont be a sexuall relationship .NARDIN will kill dead your libedo long term impotent on high dose.


Incorrect. That side effect has completely gone now.



> Also you wilL be fat as well has impotent. Its going to be a special lady that take,s you on mabye a nun.


Which is why i'm going to exercise more and dropping down to 45mg when I don't need 60mg.



> Read the info its for cronic depression ,an when a patient hits 60mg they need to drop to 15mg an stay at that as not to distroy your organ,s . The more mg the fatter you get an the less chance your penis will work for sex.:yes


Right... you have no idea what you're talking about, so I suggest you stop talking rubbish because you're looking like a fool. Have you even tried nardil?

I don't understand what your problem is? Are you just jealous because we've had such success on nardil?


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Incorrect. That side effect has completely gone now. *******
> that i dont believe for one minute, anyway your young if you carnt get it up now you never will, but has the treatment progresses you will find out.
> 
> Which is why i'm going to exercise more and dropping down to 45mg when I don't need 60mg.******* med weight , try all you like you wont shift it . if you already eat healthy it will never happen.
> ...


Certainly not, its like heroin ok short term, but you know it all dont you so when im at hospital friday i will ask my severly mental buddies who are sectioned what they think. Im just getting my med check an review by the way . but i stay in touch as they are my buddies. i will ask the nardil heads for there body reactions for you. There still inmates so it wont be that good


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

foxy said:


> Certainly not, its like heroin ok short term, but you know it all dont you so when im at hospital friday i will ask my severly mental buddies who are sectioned what they think. Im just getting my med check an review by the way . but i stay in touch as they are my buddies. i will ask the nardil heads for there body reactions for you. There still inmates so it wont be that good


Sounds like you spend a little too much time on the computer forums and not enough time at the mental hospitals bud. Bro, I tried to get a rise out of my little brother when I was 10 and it still wasn't all that satisfying and ended up just pissing people off. Is doing that exact same thing at the age of 40 really getting your rocks off that much? I hear masturbation works, and it may reduce some of that latent hostility you've got sloshing around your that old cognitive slicer and dicer you've got there.

He's asked you to lay off once, do you need a spanking next? Is that what they did when you were 10? :spank


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

That's great your happy and found a regime that works for you. But ssri's and benzos don't work for everyone. Some people would judge you for using and ssri and an addictive medicine like benzo's. But we are not here to judge people, were here to help each other. If nardil works for him and makes his quality of life then end of story, who are you to judge him on that. You just come across as very bitter in your posts. There's a reason there's so many different types of meds out there, different stuff works for different people



foxy said:


> ACTUALLY I AM HAPPY , I suffered cronic anxierty not just social anxierty plus major depression ,All kept at bay by minimum ssri,s an benzo,s. i dont ballon in weight an have a megga sex life. . infact sex kept my anxierty at lower levels from the feel good fac
> 
> tor. To good really has i had 3 kids to different women before 21 but remain cool with the kids. If you dont think im trying to help what do you think im trying to do. Do you think i get a kick out of seeing a kid on a last resort dangerouse med, I managed till 30 without a benzo never mind a powerful organ thrasher like nardil. I ploughed on through, haveing the odd drink to chill an a good bunch of buddies. So dont ever think if trying to dish him , i try to help. but ok he dont want it so im out of hear.:roll


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Hercules7 said:


> Sounds like you spend a little too much time on the computer forums and not enough time at the mental hospitals bud. Bro, I tried to get a rise out of my little brother when I was 10 and it still wasn't all that satisfying and ended up just pissing people off. Is doing that exact same thing at the age of 40 really getting your rocks off that much? I hear masturbation works, and it may reduce some of that latent hostility you've got sloshing around your that old cognitive slicer and dicer you've got there.
> 
> He's asked you to lay off once, do you need a spanking next? Is that what they did when you were 10? :spank


 I LEFT OFF HE CAME BACK :roll


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

foxy said:


> He has different side effect,s day to day , try an keep up buddy. He is in the early nardil stage , you know the one where your team emerica. You guys are wrekky drug boys, fA to do with SA.


LOL I guarantee your on topix! I not then u would fit right in!


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

foxy said:


> man your on second stage nardil meltdown , keep the conversation going, as soon your head will implode. An you will be a forgotten med junkie in the land of pandora


Ok mate... Did you want quote me third time before my head implodes?? :clap


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

boostinggtir said:


> Ok mate... Did you want quote me third time before my head implodes?? :clap


 no you head will talk more sence after the implodsion,:yes


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

foxy said:


> I LEFT OFF HE CAME BACK :roll


The best response you could come up with was a lie? You promised not to troll a few pages ago and then started in again... whatever gets you off man... tha other guy was right though, your bitterness really does come across very blatantly in all your posts. Maybe you should get that checked in to bro. that cant be very healthy and in your case could result in carpal tunnel


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## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

Shy_One would you say your social anxiety is better on 60 mg or the same as when you're on 45 mg?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Foxy you are very immature. You having no idea what you are talking about. Even for a troll you have failed. I doubt a moron would ever be convinced by the trash that you type here. BTW.. You have no sex life, zero, nil. Everyone knows you type. You hate your self... Go work on that son. 

Back on topic.

Yea S1, I also had the same libido issues, well interns of inability bust a nut/impotence lol. Though is zero/none issue since my body has adjust to nardil. Though it took a few months. Sleep is back to normal. Able to enjoy life is a appropriate. I have been dosing 60mg-90mg as needed. Nadil has given be my life back an the side effects have almost subsided 100%. I also love to get out an socialize now, like your self.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

, i try to help. but ok he dont want it so im out of hear. thats the end of me then ???????? SHY ONE Right... you have no idea what you're talking about, so I suggest you stop talking rubbish because you're looking like a fool. Have you even tried nardil? 

I don't understand what your problem is? Are you just jealous because we've had such success on nardil? HE ASKED A QUESTION so i answered it, not a lie at all implode , I WAS BEING POLITE


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Hercules7 said:


> The best response you could come up with was a lie? You promised not to troll a few pages ago and then started in again... whatever gets you off man... tha other guy was right though, your bitterness really does come across very blatantly in all your posts. Maybe you should get that checked in to bro. that cant be very healthy and in your case could result in carpal tunnel


 JUST trying to save a few from the MENTAL ward .


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## Hercules7 (Oct 15, 2011)

foxy said:


> JUST trying to save a few from the MENTAL ward .


I am inspired by your nobile intentions


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*fake sa*

ok bottom line, abuse from 2 invisable posters , BOOSTINGGTIR an HECULES7 to scarred to fill there profiles an no friend,s on forums. wandering albatros,s, i call them worse than troll,s. friendless, nameless gender less , an waste of spaceless. There is nothing wrong with you guys is there, you just feeding off idea.s from poor little shy one,thats why you big him up he is your guiniepig for nardil high,s. The only thing your looking for and im getting in you way creeps.Have you ever been ill i dout it, have you ever been in mental hospital i dought that aswell. Have you ever had sever anxierty that you get battle syndrome where you **** an piss yourself in puplic or had to take as well as your meds 40mg of valium 3 times a day an thats not enough so you knock back a hole ltr of vodka without surfaceing.Thats for acute anxierty not simple SA thet can be sorted with a benzo or a couple of beer,s whenever the need. DEPRESSION have you ever had cronic depression . so with sa get plain DEPRESSION its not cool but easy treated with ssri , if your depression is not that bad the AD will not work an you wil become worse.PLUS let me explain you invisable ones you have not got cronic depression, you no why. you would not be writeing on this forum , you would not fuction enough to be able to. you would be under the blankets 24.7 . Im in remission but the spelling an gramma isnt all to do with being thick , my brain from cronic depression is scrambled , im lucky to be able to string a sentence all be badly.NOW all.
you faceless pair do kid me about the benifits of nardil . you only want the high you have nothing to cure, only space caddet syndrome :yes:yes:yes:yes:yes


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Foxys posts crack me up each time
" Space cadet syndrome " lol!!


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

LOL this dude can't be older then 16. Can someone please give him a medal for ****ing or ****ing his pants, or what ever he's rambling on about.

Maybe then he'll shut it. 

Dam, foxy is exposing every one. I must admit I do crush up my nardil an snort it up my noise. I also like to take a 200mg nardil suppository style before parties to really get that nardil working. 

Do you think I have a problem Foxy?? Can you please advise me on this??


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

boostinggtir said:


> LOL this dude can't be older then 16. Can someone please give him a medal for ****ing or ****ing his pants, or what ever he's rambling on about.
> 
> Maybe then he'll shut it.
> 
> ...


SURE , you a fully fledged nob head. i will name you clint Eastwood ,from a few dollars more . The nob with no name







A BAD NARDIL TRIP


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

blakeyz said:


> Foxys posts crack me up each time
> " Space cadet syndrome " lol!!


 I was tempted to report foxy but his/her posts are pretty funny, obviously trolling has become her full time job.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Area88 said:


> I was tempted to report foxy but his/her posts are pretty funny, obviously trolling has become her full time job.


 NO im not a troll, just a master at add lib, i am pretty passionate about kids an screwing the heads at a young age, because i did , an im 100% NUKED now. But i have a family an kids who love he **** out me. they may not if they never get the chance to find a partner . Because there not wired up right. schizophrenia is a common outcome of strong meds , just to get out of trying to be human an surfing the planets. I understand whats going on so dont dish me for that. Anfetamin , nardil you take your pick , but 1 is organ killer thats all im saying. I DONT GET MAD , the posters get mad at my oneliners, that reduce them to mutants. I like a bit of fun even on serious topics. But i aways get poster who thinkS im a prick so im afraid i distroy them at leisure. Pretty cool to see them fall actually.:yes:yes:yes


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

Never made me mad as stated I just find you seem very bitter. And highly doubt your proclaimed happyness in life when your posts exude bitterness, sadness and negativity. Hey were all here for different reasons, if yours is putting people down and giving them a hard time to make yourself feel better all the power to ya. Different strokes for different folks right?



foxy said:


> NO im not a troll, just a master at add lib, i am pretty passionate about kids an screwing the heads at a young age, because i did , an im 100% NUKED now. But i have a family an kids who love he **** out me. they may not if they never get the chance to find a partner . Because there not wired up right. schizophrenia is a common outcome of strong meds , just to get out of trying to be human an surfing the planets. I understand whats going on so dont dish me for that. Anfetamin , nardil you take your pick , but 1 is organ killer thats all im saying. I DONT GET MAD , the posters get mad at my oneliners, that reduce them to mutants. I like a bit of fun even on serious topics. But i aways get poster who thinkS im a prick so im afraid i distroy them at leisure. Pretty cool to see them fall actually.:yes:yes:yes


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

OIOOI123 you seem pretty sure of my happinness, I run at %70 at the moment , thats the best a depressive ever runs at , so i would say im cool with that. I have took a lot of different meds in my time but been on my working meds 4 years. wife, kids , fishing , mountainbikeing , haveing a beer with the lad,s driveing an moding fast car,s. NOPE seem like i am happy has its going to get. So i point out the danger,s of takeing strong shrink meds to get high, just being truthfull dont make me he bad guy. Sure i bite back at the wolves, But come on man dont say im unhappy , i have been when not in remission yes , but when in never. IF my word,s an little dig,s make you uncomfortable, get your finger,s out the fire.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

You don't me uncomfortable at all. And maybe your intentions are true. But the way you come off sure doesn't seem like you want to help people. You have never said anything bad towards me, I have no Ill feeling towards you. But I just call it as I see it. I also have a wonderfully girlfriend a kid on the way 6 figure income. Vacation spot with a quad and snowmobile ect. Do these things equate to happyness? No. If life was so peachy for you I doubt you would be on this forum, but I truly hope you are as happy as you think/say you are. I have everything in my life I could want and need, but I'm still man enough to admit I deal with depression and anxiety and life could be better. One thing I would never do is come on here and treat people who are obviously in a time of need the way you do. But I digress. All the best to you


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

Beautifull child. Congrats to you and your fam. I can't wait till my little one is born. I guess all I was saying foxy is maybe you could be a little more decent in your attempts to help people. Just one mans opinion.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm always thrilled to see more progress, shy-one. Once a medication allows you to see the light at the end of the tunnel again, hope is surely renewed... I just lost my brother unexpectedly and I'm really surprised with my ability to cope on Parnate. I still see hope in all the grief and bereavement, it's truly amazing and I am so thankful treatment options such as MAOI's still exist. Really, just knowing the existence of such a class of anti-depressants and then later finding it really does work, has given me more hope than I could have ever imagined. I even found the courage inside me to speak at his funeral yesterday. I never thought I'd feel so humbled by the ability to utilize my courage in such a distressing time.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Oioioi123 said:


> Beautifull child. Congrats to you and your fam. I can't wait till my little one is born. I guess all I was saying foxy is maybe you could be a little more decent in your attempts to help people. Just one mans opinion.


ok , lets face it without the full on aproach i could not get any message across.,i would fade into a thread. Im like a comedian, they tell jokes for impact not conversation, dont mean there like that in life. I dont pull punch,s in my thread,s ,an i get the attention for people usually nothing to do with the topic. IF you notice the insults always find me first, an then i enjoy 1 to 1 face off,s. BBBBBBBBBut then as my replies begin to defeat the poster they get mad an insult my family , education, age , dyslexia ect ect. all personal. Then an only then it becomes personal to me . So i distroy there venom with put down,s they carnt compete agaist So look next time you think a thread gets nasty an you will see its not me who starts it. Its usually 2 to 3 posters Fireing cheap shots at me as humiliation in defeat is a hard pill to swallow. So the more wound up they get , the more you posters look at me as the culprit. This was an argument about posters useing nardil as an anfetemin, nothing to do with SA, they use shy boy as there test pilot. Shy boy does the road work an the pain, an they find a safe nardil dose to planet surf. AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT.:yes:yes:yes


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## Weston (Sep 23, 2006)

I can't figure why this clown is trying to make Nardil out to be some kind of dangerous addictive drug. I'm guessing he is one of the new Nardil / old Nardil anti Pfizer freaks. If you don't know what I'm talking about do a search. I've taken Nardil and Parnate on and off for close to 25 years. Neither is addictive and neither has had any negative impact on my health or mental abilities. Don't let him scare any one off. Maybe Nardil isn't perfect, and maybe the new Nardil is less effective than the old one, but it still helps plenty of people.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

foxy said:


> ok , lets face it without the full on aproach i could not get any message across.,i would fade into a thread. Im like a comedian, they tell jokes for impact not conversation, dont mean there like that in life. I dont pull punch,s in my thread,s ,an i get the attention for people usually nothing to do with the topic. IF you notice the insults always find me first, an then i enjoy 1 to 1 face off,s. BBBBBBBBBut then as my replies begin to defeat the poster they get mad an insult my family , education, age , dyslexia ect ect. all personal. Then an only then it becomes personal to me . So i distroy there venom with put down,s they carnt compete agaist So look next time you think a thread gets nasty an you will see its not me who starts it. Its usually 2 to 3 posters Fireing cheap shots at me as humiliation in defeat is a hard pill to swallow. So the more wound up they get , the more you posters look at me as the culprit. This was an argument about posters useing nardil as an anfetemin, nothing to do with SA, they use shy boy as there test pilot. Shy boy does the road work an the pain, an they find a safe nardil dose to planet surf. AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT.:yes:yes:yes


In all honesty. I was starting to not mind you, this post really shows your maturity level. And whether or not you can't see it, YOU start this stuff. Ignorance is bliss. I am not going to debate or converse with you, I think you need to grow up


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Weston said:


> I can't figure why this clown is trying to make Nardil out to be some kind of dangerous addictive drug. I'm guessing he is one of the new Nardil / old Nardil anti Pfizer freaks. If you don't know what I'm talking about do a search. I've taken Nardil and Parnate on and off for close to 25 years. Neither is addictive and neither has had any negative impact on my health or mental abilities. Don't let him scare any one off. Maybe Nardil isn't perfect, and maybe the new Nardil is less effective than the old one, but it still helps plenty of people.


ok leT,S talk serious, first what is your illness, NARDIL is used in depression :yes has a last resort to treatment resistant depression get that:um treatment resistant depression where all else fails, that is the job of nardil . Why is it a last resort , because its a MAIO with the protential of massive side effects, NOT treatment for SA a relitive minor illness in mental health. If you have the type of depression that needs NARDIL you will have major depression an SA is just one part of it, there are many more ,to many to mention. Now SAjust on its own is not worth the risk of nardil. An no english GP or shrink would script it for SA alone. Now WESTON 25 YEARS ON NARDIL . could you please tell me your real weight an the lenth of time you have been impotent:yes how about a photo, has a confedence boost to the nardil newbies


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Oioioi123 said:


> In all honesty. I was starting to not mind you, this post really shows your maturity level. And whether or not you can't see it, YOU start this stuff. Ignorance is bliss. I am not going to debate or converse with you, I think you need to grow up


 I dont like or dislike you, as you could be anyone , i dont trust people that dare not fill in there profile. There either fake OR JUST PLAIN BORED:yes


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## Weston (Sep 23, 2006)

foxy said:


> ok leT,S talk serious, first what is your illness, NARDIL is used in depression :yes has a last resort to treatment resistant depression get that:um treatment resistant depression where all else fails, that is the job of nardil . Why is it a last resort , because its a MAIO with the protential of massive side effects, NOT treatment for SA a relitive minor illness in mental health. If you have the type of depression that needs NARDIL you will have major depression an SA is just one part of it, there are many more ,to many to mention. Now SAjust on its own is not worth the risk of nardil. An no english GP or shrink would script it for SA alone. Now WESTON 25 YEARS ON NARDIL . could you please tell me your real weight an the lenth of time you have been impotent:yes how about a photo, has a confedence boost to the nardil newbies


The best I can post is a video of myself from You Tube. Besides showing that Nardil has caused absolutetly no weight gain, it also shows how much Nardil has helped me overcome my social anxiety. I had to edit the last part for You Tube that showed that Nardil did not cause me to be impotent. You should have seen the crowd that gathered.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

........


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ignore the troll guys.

Anyway just wanted to mention that every time I go down to 45mg the depression/anxiety usually returns now within about 2 weeks. So from now on I think i'll stay on 60mg because the hypotension is less severe. Yesterday the anxiety creeped back in big time, so I went straight back up to 60mg. Hopefully this will be better in a few days as usual.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Has anyone else noticed that the fresher/newer the nardil is, the more potent it is? Perhaps its just the refrigerated version, i'm not sure. But i've definitely noticed an increased level of potency when I've opened a fresh new bottle compared to one that is nearly empty. I've noticed that the hypotension is usually slightly worse towards the start of a new bottle which would indicate a higher potency. I also think its slightly more effective. 

My refrigerated nardil has a shorter shelf life compared to other drugs, normally only about 6 - 8 months on average. The fresher the batch the better. Ahh nothing like some fresh nardil to start the day!


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one, how is your general effectiveness now after a longer time when you are on the higher dose? Is it as life-changing for you as others like Ashwin described it? And after how many weeks on your highest dose did the real full Nardil-effect kick in?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

reflecting said:


> shy-one, how is your general effectiveness now after a longer time when you are on the higher dose?


Probably around the same. However 60mg is more effective than 45mg. Sometimes I still drop down to 45mg to have a break from side effects. I can normally only do this for 1 - 2 weeks max before the depression/anxiety returns now.



> Is it as life-changing for you as others like Ashwin described it?


Yes, it has been life changing for me, but not to the extent I dreamed/hoped for. Maybe I was just hoping for too much? But put it this way, I have been going out at night and socialising pretty much every weekend. I have also been meeting lots of girls, and dating a new girl (sometimes two!) each week! I have also made a lot of new friends.



> And after how many weeks on your highest dose did the real full Nardil-effect kick in?


5 weeks after I reached 60mg. At first it was the reduction of anxiety I noticed, followed by a reduction in depression about 1 - 2 weeks later. I'm guessing it hit GABA first, followed by dopamine.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one said:


> Probably around the same. However 60mg is more effective than 45mg. Sometimes I still drop down to 45mg to have a break from side effects. I can normally only do this for 1 - 2 weeks max before the depression/anxiety returns now.
> 
> Yes, it has been life changing for me, but not to the extent I dreamed/hoped for. Maybe I was just hoping for too much? But put it this way, I have been going out at night and socialising pretty much every weekend. I have also been meeting lots of girls, and dating a new girl (sometimes two!) each week! I have also made a lot of new friends.
> 
> 5 weeks after I reached 60mg. At first it was the reduction of anxiety I noticed, followed by a reduction in depression about 1 - 2 weeks later. I'm guessing it hit GABA first, followed by dopamine.


Even if it is not as great as you hoped for, it sounds fantastic... in my status the probablity that I'll ever in my whole life ask a girl (or a boy, I am flexible) to go out is very close to zero.

Btw, do you remember after how many weeks these nasty sexual side effects went away in your case?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

reflecting said:


> Even if it is not as great as you hoped for, it sounds fantastic... in my status the probablity that I'll ever in my whole life ask a girl (or a boy, I am flexible) to go out is very close to zero.


I guess I was hoping for more as in being able to strike up a conversation with a random stranger on the street. I still can't do this - I can only talk to people if the situation/environment is right, eg if i'm doing something with a common interest then I have something to start a conversation with them about. I have read reports of one guy on dr-bob being able to ask out literally 10 girls a day just on the street. But yeah, I guess I should be happy with how good it has been, i'd rate it about 7/10 as mentioned previously, but I was hoping for a 10/10.



> Btw, do you remember after how many weeks these nasty sexual side effects went away in your case?


Around 3 months. It gradually went away, now there is none.

Did you say you were on nardil? I can't remember (nardil makes my memory bad!). If so, how are you going on it?


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## Chrome (Jun 19, 2008)

NArdil has got to the most Bi-Polar drug ever. I been on it 4 years and I think it's the best med out there for SA/Depression but for months at a time it seems like a placebo, and then at other times it works really well.
Maybe its just me idk.


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

shy-one said:


> I guess I was hoping for more as in being able to strike up a conversation with a random stranger on the street. I still can't do this - I can only talk to people if the situation/environment is right, eg if i'm doing something with a common interest then I have something to start a conversation with them about. I have read reports of one guy on dr-bob being able to ask out literally 10 girls a day just on the street. But yeah, I guess I should be happy with how good it has been, i'd rate it about 7/10 as mentioned previously, but I was hoping for a 10/10.


Well, I guess if I started to ask out 10 girls a day on the street my family would consider sending me to psychiatry, as it would be so extremely out of character... 



> Around 3 months. It gradually went away, now there is none.


Great. Currently for me there is really going on nothing down there...



> Did you say you were on nardil? I can't remember (nardil makes my memory bad!). If so, how are you going on it?


Yeah (you even answered in my thread http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ardil-diary-148112/index2.html#post1059430862 ^^)

I am not taking it long enough to make a conclusion... I hope that I can tell similar things as you end of the year.


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## alex13abc (Oct 27, 2011)

Quick question for people knowledgeable about Nardil and food interactions. I take a whey isolate protein powder everyday ( about 120 grams) and will soon start taking Nardil.
Most people seem to say that protein powders are okay with Nardil but I would really appreciate an informed answer based on the ingredients of this specific powder.

The powder is named Impact whey isolate.

The website describes the impact whey isolate as:

"Our Impact Whey Isolate® is an extremely rich source of whey protein derived from vegetarian sweet cheese, sourced directly from the world's leading whey protein manufacturers."

The website lists the following ingredients for the protein isolate powder:

"Undenatured Whey Protein Isolate*, Cocoa Powder (chocolate flavours only), Flavouring (flavoured options only), Citric Acid (raspberry flavour only), Emulsifier (Soy Lecithin), Sweetener (Sucralose® [flavoured options only]), Colouring (Quinoline & Sunset Yellow [banana flavour only], Carmoisine [raspberry flavour only], Beetroot Red [strawberry cream flavour only]). *From Milk"

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

alex13abc said:


> Quick question for people knowledgeable about Nardil and food interactions. I take a whey isolate protein powder everyday ( about 120 grams) and will soon start taking Nardil.
> Most people seem to say that protein powders are okay with Nardil but I would really appreciate an informed answer based on the ingredients of this specific powder.
> 
> The powder is named Impact whey isolate.
> ...


I don't see anything that should be a problem. Which ingredient concerned you? Is it because it says derived from cheese? I think all whey protein is derived from cheese. When I was on Nardil, I had many different brands of protein shakes, and I never had a problem. I hope that helps some.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Around 3 months. It gradually went away, now there is none.


I really wish that were the case for me because I barely knew what anxiety was while on Nardil, and I certainly had zero depression. I was on 60mg of Nardil for like 8 months, and the sexual side effects never went away for me. That and constipation were my main complaints. I never had any weight gain, but I would have welcomed it because I'm skinny. I'm hoping to try Parnate to see if I can have a similar effect without the sexual side effects.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

Is there nothing doctors can prescribe for the sexual sides or would their be to many interactions. Also what are the sexual side effects? Loss of interest or anorgasmia


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

Oioioi123 said:


> Is there nothing doctors can prescribe for the sexual sides or would their be to many interactions. Also what are the sexual side effects? Loss of interest or anorgasmia


For me it was anorgasmia. My libido didn't really change. I think that there may be a few things that doctor's can prescribe safely, but some doctors are too cautious prescribing other drugs while on an MAOI.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

wjc75225 said:


> For me it was anorgasmia. My libido didn't really change. I think that there may be a few things that doctor's can prescribe safely, but some doctors are too cautious prescribing other drugs while on an MAOI.


I don't think there is really much to treat anorgasmia. I have looked extensively. I never had the problem until I took ssri's and even though I haven't taken them in years the problem stayed with me


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

My sex drive is fine on Parnate, if not better.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> My sex drive is fine on Parnate, if not better.


How is Parnate overall for you? Has it improved anxiety/depression?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> My sex drive is fine on Parnate, if not better.


Yeah same and i also lost weight on it 2
It was the cleanest drug i think i ever took


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## alex13abc (Oct 27, 2011)

wjc75225 said:


> I don't see anything that should be a problem. Which ingredient concerned you? Is it because it says derived from cheese? I think all whey protein is derived from cheese. When I was on Nardil, I had many different brands of protein shakes, and I never had a problem. I hope that helps some.


Thanks for that. I was just concerned about the amount of tyramine in such products as most MAOI guides say that tyramine tends to build up in foods if you let it sit but I guess the process for protein powders is different.

I'm also very interested to hear from people taking Nardil as regards exercise. I'm quite the gym rat and I practice rather intense cardio daily. Will I be able to keep doing that on the drug and will that offset the weight gain ?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

alex13abc said:


> I'm also very interested to hear from people taking Nardil as regards exercise. I'm quite the gym rat and I practice rather intense cardio daily. Will I be able to keep doing that on the drug and will that offset the weight gain ?


For the first few months good luck walking, let alone doing any intense exercise. At first the hypotension hits you pretty bad, I could barely walk without feeling like I was going to collapse. In fact, I did collapse a few times and hit my head badly against the bathroom sink. I had to reduce my dose down to 45mg for a while just so I could walk properly.

But the good news is that the hypotension does get better with time, and then you can start exercising again to counteract the weight gain. However, I do feel weaker on 60mg. So if I'm going to be doing a day of exercise then i'll drop down to 45mg about 2 days before. Remember, nardil is a very dynamic drug and any changes (including mood) will be reflected after only a few days of changing dose.


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## alex13abc (Oct 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> For the first few months good luck walking, let alone doing any intense exercise. At first the hypotension hits you pretty bad, I could barely walk without feeling like I was going to collapse. In fact, I did collapse a few times and hit my head badly against the bathroom sink. I had to reduce my dose down to 45mg for a while just so I could walk properly.
> 
> But the good news is that the hypotension does get better with time, and then you can start exercising again to counteract the weight gain. However, I do feel weaker on 60mg. So if I'm going to be doing a day of exercise then i'll drop down to 45mg about 2 days before. Remember, nardil is a very dynamic drug and any changes (including mood) will be reflected after only a few days of changing dose.


Really? That's a real bummer if exercise is that hard to do while on Nardil. From what you say, I guess it would be very dangerous if one even tried to do anything such as jogging or cycling.

I'm really excited about starting Nardil but I realize I had no idea about the lifestyle changes it would require ( except for the diet).

Is there a chance the hypotension won't affect me though or does it affect everyone ?


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

At least from Parnate it's known that orthostatic hypotension occurs more often in people with pre-existing hypertension (which may seem paradoxical). When I took Parnate I could usually normalize low blood pressure with table salt or some coffee.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

So if fitness/exercising is a big part of someone's life an maoi isn't a good idea?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

no it's fine/needed IMO. I'm on nardil an GYM/weight lifting is my hobby. I did get the odd bit of dizziness after I'd taken for around 6 weeks, though I get nothing now and I'm on 90mg a day. Which is the highest dose. Though of course every one different. I did have 1 weeks were it was a little bad, ie close to fainting, though that was only one week.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I guess the hypotension is an individual thing then. Maybe youll be lucky and not get it so bad


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## reflecting (Apr 19, 2011)

Has anyone else experienced this: After I take a Nardil dose my blood pressure goes clearly up, esp. if I have no food in my stomach. In fact, I had some situations were I got a headache and measured blood pressure peaks up to 190 after taking a dose... oO


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Have you considered asking your Pdoc for an "emergency pill" like sublingual Nifedipine in case blood pressure raises to very high levels? Even without the possibilty to check blood pressure you would definitly feel such an event (very strong, "unusual" headache, heart raising...). If you get the nifedipine it's important not to take a high dose of it thinking "It will take so much to be safe", because in fact the real trouble is more likely to come from lowering the BB way too much in such a case.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> Have you considered asking your Pdoc for an "emergency pill" like sublingual Nifedipine in case blood pressure raises to very high levels? Even without the possibilty to check blood pressure you would definitly feel such an event (very strong, "unusual" headache, heart raising...). If you get the nifedipine it's important not to take a high dose of it thinking "It will take so much to be safe", because in fact the real trouble is more likely to come from lowering the BB way too much in such a case.


Good idea. Call me paranoid but I carry around a dose of nifedipine in my wallet just in case of a hypertensive crisis. Many drs are reluctant to prescribe it due to the risk of BP crash, but I think you've got a better chance of avoiding stroke/death if you take it then get to hospital ASAP before a possible crash occurs later.

The prescribing if nifedipine in case of emergency hypertensive crisis is controversial, but I think overall it is the lesser of two evils and will give you a better chance of survival in a severe reaction.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

wjc75225 said:


> How is Parnate overall for you? Has it improved anxiety/depression?


Yup. It's helping treatment resistant depression mostly, but somehow I have found the courage to do some things I normally would never do. (like speak in front of 200 people at my brothers funeral) It has greatly improved my well being so far and given me much needed hope.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Haven't posted in a while, been too busy socialising and meeting women... 

I just wanted to say that last night I went out to a bar with live music. For the first time ever I managed to approach a woman and start up a conversation when there wasn't even a common interest involved - we were both just standing there alone. I will admit it was hard, and I stood there for about 10 minutes thinking it through, but I managed to do it! 

Turns out she's here on a working holiday from Brazil, very friendly and attractive! We ended up chatting for hours, then went for a walk to see the city lights and made out. 

Let me tell you, in the past few months I have been dating about 1 - 2 women PER WEEK! Its crazy! 

Also just wanted to say that foreign women are a lot better than most western/US trash (no offense to anyone). They are easier to approach and don't seem to have this "shield" around them saying "get away from me loser". 

Moral of the story, if you want to meet lots of women (or even get a gf), then try nardil!!!! Seriously I have lost count of the number of women I've met over the past few months. I have literally gone from meeting maybe 2 women per year to 2 per WEEK!


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

Wow.... Sounds like it's now doing wayyy more than expected.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

You guys are lucky. I was on Nardil for around 8 months, and while it wasn't perfect, it made me able to do social things that I would have never been able to do in the past. I had to go off of it. Now, I'm seeing a new psychiatrist, and he wants to try a few meds I haven't tried yet before putting me back on Nardil. He put me on cymbalta and then he'll try viibryd, then a few of the tricyclics, then Emsam first. It's super frustrating. I've already been on 20+ different meds for SA/depression as it is.

He said "this is going to be a long process". I was going to try to go back to school, but now I'm not so sure.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

wjc75225 said:


> You guys are lucky. I was on Nardil for around 8 months, and while it wasn't perfect, it made me able to do social things that I would have never been able to do in the past. I had to go off of it. Now, I'm seeing a new psychiatrist, and he wants to try a few meds I haven't tried yet before putting me back on Nardil. He put me on cymbalta and then he'll try viibryd, then a few of the tricyclics, then Emsam first. It's super frustrating. I've already been on 20+ different meds for SA/depression as it is.
> 
> He said "this is going to be a long process". I was going to try to go back to school, but now I'm not so sure.


Hmm I feel your pain, I've been through alot of meds over the years too, and I also just started on Cymbalta. Long term I've been on Effexor-XR, but due to side effects my pdoc occasionally stops it and has tried Pristiq and now Cymbalta in it's place.

Personally I'd jump the tricyclics step in that plan since they don't show any efficacy in treating SA.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

jim_morrison said:


> Hmm I feel your pain, I've been through alot of meds over the years too, and I also just started on Cymbalta. Long term I've been on Effexor-XR, but due to side effects my pdoc occasionally stops it and has tried Pristiq and now Cymbalta in it's place.
> 
> Personally I'd jump the tricyclics step in that plan since they don't show any efficacy in treating SA.


Yeah, I'll see if he can skip those. It just seems like since I've been on every SSRI (other than the new Viibryd), and I've been on the SNRI's Effexor and Pristiq that Cymbalta won't have too high of a chance of working for me.

I think all psychiatrists learn the same analogies because he said that it's just a matter of "finding the right key in the chain", which I've been told in the past.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

wjc75225 said:


> Yeah, I'll see if he can skip those. It just seems like since I've been on every SSRI (other than the new Viibryd), and I've been on the SNRI's Effexor and Pristiq that Cymbalta won't have too high of a chance of working for me.
> 
> I think all psychiatrists learn the same analogies because he said that it's just a matter of "finding the right key in the chain", which I've been told in the past.


So overall Nardil worked the best for your SA/depression, but the side effects were too much? Hmm maybe you'd have more luck skipping straight to Emsam if Cymbalta doesn't work out.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

jim_morrison said:


> So overall Nardil worked the best for your SA/depression, but the side effects were too much? Hmm maybe you'd have more luck skipping straight to Emsam if Cymbalta doesn't work out.


No, it wasn't that the side effects were too much. I got into a fight with another psychiatrist who was prescribing the Nardil, and he fired me as a patient. I had to go to a local mental hospital to withdraw properly.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

wjc75225 said:


> No, it wasn't that the side effects were too much. I got into a fight with another psychiatrist who was prescribing the Nardil, and he fired me as a patient. I had to go to a local mental hospital to withdraw properly.


Oh wow, so you didn't even intend to stop taking it, but the Pdoc cut you off and you couldn't get it prescribed anymore?  Sorry to hear that man.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

jim_morrison said:


> Oh wow, so you didn't even intend to stop taking it, but the Pdoc cut you off and you couldn't get it prescribed anymore?  Sorry to hear that man.


Yep, that's exactly what happened. The hospital withdrew me from 60mg to 0mg in 5 days. Withdrawal was harsh. I even told them that I thought their withdraw plan was too fast, but they didn't listen.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Going through a lot of girls!
Is that a good or bad thing ? looking for the right one
Has it made you fat yet ?


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## Payn (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi, I am going to order Nardil from a pharmacy in the UK, but i cant decide between these two brands, Hansam and Archimedes-Concord. I wonder, if anyone can advise me on which one of these two brands would be better choice for purchase (I mean, which one is more effective?)


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

I'm dieting on nadil lol... eat less calories then what your body burns. I was 100kg am now 88kg. If the wight gain is killing any one,.. hit the gym and more importantly learn about nutritional systems..


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Payn said:


> Hi, I am going to order Nardil from a pharmacy in the UK, but i cant decide between these two brands, Hansam and Archimedes-Concord. I wonder, if anyone can advise me on which one of these two brands would be better choice for purchase (I mean, which one is more effective?)


 Concord is supposed to be the better of the two brands. I think Concord is the Australian manufacturer of Nardil, only heard good things about it.


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## Payn (Sep 15, 2008)

Area88 said:


> Concord is supposed to be the better of the two brands. I think Concord is the Australian manufacturer of Nardil, only heard good things about it.


I heard that the Hansam brand is now the Concord....and also that Concord and Link(Australian Nardil) are now Archimedes Pharma UK. I dont understand this and I'm confused by it all.


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Payn said:


> I heard that the Hansam brand is now the Concord....and also that Concord and Link(Australian Nardil) are now Archimedes Pharma UK. I dont understand this and I'm confused by it all.


 Looking through this post http://www.psychforums.com/social-phobia/topic73166.html It appears all those companies are the same in the UK, just different distributor names. I think you'll be okay Payn and you'll get the right forumulation. Ask at the chemist who the manufacturer is and then google it when you get home just to make sure.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Another update...

Have been doing reasonably well on just 45mg for about a month. I only go up to 60mg if I really need to, because it makes me weaker, and my insomnia worse. 

However, had a bit of a set back at the start of this week. I then made the connection that whenever I start on a new bottle of nardil, most of the time I get depressed/anxious for about a week, very strange. I'm not sure what would cause this? Perhaps the properties are different when the bottle is first opened (air gets into it?), or maybe the potency is different. Perhaps its just a coincidence but looking back now it appears to have happened about 3 times. Has anyone else experienced this? 

Last night I think I also had a second mild hypertensive crisis. I have no idea what would have caused this, all I ate was a chicken parmigiana, which is chicken with tomato sauce, ham, and mozzarella cheese. I doubled checked with the waiter to make sure it was mozzarella only (which it was). Anyway, afterwards I felt anxious, felt really sick (like I was going to throw up), and my head was a little tingly. I am not 100% sure if it was a reaction, or if I was just anxious about there being a reaction, or a combination of both. But it did have a similar feeling to the other time.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

So I went overseas for a few weeks, and stayed in backpackers. Having never stayed in backpackers before, I was quite anxious about sharing a room with strangers, something that would normally send my SA sky high.

But once I actually arrived I wasn't that anxious, in fact I actually enjoyed it. I lost count at number of people I met, and even spent some of the days hanging out with some girls. In fact, I actually _approached_ one girl who was sitting on the beach alone and started up a conversation that went for hours.

In the past few months, i've lost count of the number of girls I've dated. Unfortunately none of them were suitable though for anything long term. But I guess that's the dating game right?

I also wanted to point out something interesting. I have definitely noticed that when starting a new bottle of nardil its more potent and the side effects hit me again (nothing serious, just feeling weak, bit of day time fatigue, insomnia). Sometimes it can also cause depression for a few days. I am talking about the refrigerated version.... it seems to change properties when the bottle has been opened for a while (when you're near the end).

Unfortunately I keep putting on weight and feeling bloated. I have thought about trying to go off it but i'm not sure yet. I can't work out if its still working wonders, or if i'm doing most of the work myself now.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Hey guys, its been a while....

I have remained on nardil at 45mg. However just in the past few weeks I feel as though it isn't working as well as it used to, so I have made the decision to come off it and see how I go.

I started nardil back in June last year, and for the first 6 months it helped me tremendously. However, lately I have been doing a lot of self reflection and have come to realise something...

I live in Australia, which is a very extroverted, outgoing society (much like the US). Here extroversion is seen as a positive, while introversion is seen as a negative. The main reason why I took nardil is because I wanted to fit in with everyone else in this extroverted culture. I wanted to be social, have friends, etc, as I felt like I never fit in here. 

I am now starting to believe that there is nothing wrong with how I am, its just that I was born in the wrong country. There are some countries where the majority are introverts (eg Japan, and some European countries), and I intend to travel and explore this further. I want to live in a country where I'm accepted for being an introvert. However, if it weren't for nardil I probably wouldn't have had the desire or motivation to do this. 

I tried coming down from 45mg to 30mg for a few days but this was too quick. I had night sweats, nausea, insomnia, and diarrhea. I have now come up with a tapering plan of reducing it by half a tablet every 2 weeks, so this should take about 2 months to come off 45mg completely. Does this sound reasonable? 

If there is anyone out there really stuck in a rut with depression and anxiety then by all means give nardil a go, even if it is only for 6 - 12 months to help you get out of a rut. It was the ONLY antidepressant that helped me and I had tried literally every antidepressant under the sun. 

P.S. I cannot wait to be able to eat what I want again, especially cheese and asian food. Travelling to foreign countries would just be too risky on nardil, which is a major reason I decided to come off it. Another reason is that I keep putting on weight, I have put on 12kg in 6 months, and its not stopping any time soon while on nardil.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for the update man, I started Nardil a couple
Months back, and it's nice to see another positive story! Just be careful man, it happens way to often where people think they are ok or better and come off a med then realize how well the med was working and go back to their old self. 45 is pretty low, I hope I can eventually maintain on that low a dose. You brought up a good point that I have never thought of before, how different country's can vary in the way of socializing, maybe that's why I have always had a lot of respect for Asian and in particular Japanese people. They seem very humble, respectful and morally grounded people. They seem to hold their values higher then other cultures and I have always had great respect for them and their culture and would like to travel their one day! Anyway man, I wish you best of luck in whatever you choose to do
Btw don't you think if you went up to 60 for a bit you would see the results you had before? I always hear with Nardil you have to always kinda play with the dose to avoid "poop out"



shy-one said:


> Hey guys, its been a while....
> 
> I have remained on nardil at 45mg. However just in the past few weeks I feel as though it isn't working as well as it used to, so I have made the decision to come off it and see how I go.
> 
> ...


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Oioioi123 said:


> Thanks for the update man, I started Nardil a couple
> Months back, and it's nice to see another positive story! Just be careful man, it happens way to often where people think they are ok or better and come off a med then realize how well the med was working and go back to their old self. 45 is pretty low, I hope I can eventually maintain on that low a dose. You brought up a good point that I have never thought of before, how different country's can vary in the way of socializing, maybe that's why I have always had a lot of respect for Asian and in particular Japanese people. They seem very humble, respectful and morally grounded people. They seem to hold their values higher then other cultures and I have always had great respect for them and their culture and would like to travel their one day! Anyway man, I wish you best of luck in whatever you choose to do
> Btw don't you think if you went up to 60 for a bit you would see the results you had before? I always hear with Nardil you have to always kinda play with the dose to avoid "poop out"


No worries. I am glad I had the opportunity to try nardil, so I can therefore say I have been on the most effective antidepressant there is.

Yep, I was originally on 60mg for quite some time, but it kept making me feel weak, and hypotensive (still did a little even after the worst of it wore off). Sometimes I could barely walk up a small hill without my legs aching and feeling exhausted. It was then I went down to 45mg and this proved to be just as effective as a maintenance dose. With nardil there is a very fine line between the dose of tolerability vs benefit... almost like lithium. I won't lie, the side effects were VERY harsh at the start, particularly the insomnia and hypotension.

Yes, I also considered going up to 60mg for the same benefit as before, but then I would also have to put up with being weak and less fit. This means I wouldn't be able to do many things active, only mild walking on flat ground. I am also going to Europe in August, so I don't want to be on nardil with all the foreign foods there... I wouldn't know what was in half of them due to the language barrier, very dangerous! I have always been extremely careful with my diet, and as a result I have only ever had 2 very mild hypertensive reactions. No migraine, just pins and needles all over my head and feeling very nauseous. One reaction was from a meal in red wine sauce, another was chicken parmigiana - they said it was only mozzarella cheese, but it may have been a blend with another cheese.

I just hope I don't fall back into a deep hole of depression. If I do get really depressed again to the point of being suicidal, then i'll just go back on nardil. Right now my hope is trying to find a better place to live where i'm appreciated and respected as an introvert. I honestly think that if I found a place where the majority are introverts, it would be much easier to make friends with like minded people. I just don't seem to get along with most of the extroverts here, they are too loud, crazy, and draining.

I am actually a swiss citizen (through a swiss parent), and from what i've been told it is quite an introverted country. I will be spending some time there while i'm in Europe and if I really love the place I won't hesitate to move over there. I also have the option of living in any other EU country... so if I find another introverted country during my travels, I will also consider it as a place to live.


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

This thread is another reason I want to try nardil this summer. Fingers crossed.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

shy-one said:


> redtogo72 said:
> 
> 
> > It could take some time before you notice anything positive. It took a couple of months for Nardil to work for me. Initially, I'd have weeks where I felt horrible and didn't want to get out of bed. Your doctor should have a plan for you on a starting dosage and when to increase it. I started with 15mg, and then every 1-2 weeks went up another 15mg. I think upping it every few days is going too quickly.
> ...


DO NOT start on 60mg!! Big mistake commonly made. Shouldn't even say that on package label, but unfortunately it does. Side efffects will be much harsher!!

Start on 15mg for a 3-4 days, then bump up to 30mg for a week and increase dose by 15mg each week until you hit 60mg. Stay on 60mg for a while.

I might of even stayed at 45mg for 2 weeks. Hard to remember, over 9 months ago.

The slower you titrate up thr lower the chance u have of experiencing harsh side effects. Give your body more time to adjust and you will be grateful u did that!

Good luck shy-one!! Glad to hear ur persistence paid off!!

No reason to be scared of nardil! Avoid the interactions, also ur anxiety about food will dissipate as ur anxiety decreases from nardil and u see that alot of the food restrictions are outdated.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Argh, I can't come off it. I am now down to 2 and a quarter tabs per day and i'm feeling extremely depressed and more anxious. 

Why the hell can't I ever come off nardil? Is it just the withdrawal effect, or is it due to the fact I forgot how **** I used to feel before I was on it? This is the second time I have attempted to come off now without success. 

It is also really bad timing. I recently met a girl who is amazing... and the past few days i've been back to my pre-nardil days - depression, anxiety, clingy, needing to be constantly re-assured, low self esteem, no motivation, and over analysing every detail of things said, etc. But the good thing is she understands (she has suffered depression herself), and she still wants to stay with me. 

I am going to up my dose to 45mg again starting tomorrow. I just can't take this anymore.


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

shy-one, from what I've read, Nardil has one of the strongest withdrawals of any drugs. All the old side effects from when you first started will return if your body isn't ready for the lowered dose and sometimes they can be alot worse than the original symptoms because your brain is so used to geting the drug now. You have to titrate much slower than most other drugs.

Good luck and thanks for still updating the nardil diaries.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

I withdrew from nardil ok, felt dizzy for a day or so. I'm now on Parnate. I'm just trying as parnate as nardil was making me very tired, needing day naps. Though I was feeling pretty good prior to coming off. The thing with Parnate is it dons;t take long to see if it going to be the better option. Will give it a few more weeks, an then go back on Nardil. I'll try an get a stim, if I go back on nardil, for the tired ness issue, as was great beside been tired all the time. I seem to go up an down on Parnate, though I've just increased the dose to 20mg x 3 perday, so we'll see how we go. Again, like SO, I'll go back on nardil if parnate doesn't work out after a short time. (dont have to wait months for the real effect) would you consider trying parnate SO?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Forgot to reply to this thread after going back up to 45mg. I am now back on 45mg again and doing well. My biggest goal and motivation at the moment is to travel and move overseas. Nardil gives me the courage and focus to do this. 

Whenever I try to come off the depression/anxiety always returns. This is how I know its working. Sometimes I forget how crap I used to feel before nardil. 

As much as i'd like to be medication free, I think I'm going to have to stay on it until everything in my life is perfect (or close to it). Perhaps then I may be well enough to try and come off it again.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Hey all, i'm back. 

Just thought i'd give another update on nardil. 

I am still on it now, but have tried to come off a few times unsuccessfully due to insomnia, weight gain, and having muscle pain whenever walking up a hill or stairs. I needed a break from nardil but every time I lowered my dose I went back into the depths of hell. 

I lost one job from trying to come off it, went back on it and felt great again, then gained another job. Tried to lower the dose again (needed a break) and came close to losing that second job. Put the dose back up again and ended up getting another great job better than my current job. 

Ha! every time I lower the dose I always lose a job, and when I go back on it I gain a job! The power of nardil is amazing. 

Now back to my steady dose of 45mg. Even as little as a quarter of a tablet less is below the effective threshold and depression/anxiety returns. 

At times though it is inevitable I will need to lower the dose to take a break from the side effects, but from now on i'll probably only do it for a max of 2 weeks at a time. 

I simply cannot function without nardil, and I predict i'll be on it for the rest of my life.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

What a rollercoaster! Guess it's not for me though. I can't afford to lose my job, I got a mortgage. :|


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## nymj (Aug 21, 2014)

Nardil is #1 without question. New drugs come out (ssri) and pharmaceutical companies push for . Now your GP can prescribe any ssri without prejudice. Not only do they get kick-backs but they certainly do not have enough knowledge in this field to adequately make an educated decision. Also, manufacturer does matter. Gavis blows Pfizer (Greenstone) away.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Nardil pro checking in... Still going well most of the time on 45mg however had a bit of depression creeping back in last week. I realized the reason for it was cause I didn't have it refrigerated while on holiday for a week, so it lost some efficacy and 45mg is only JUST giving me MAO inhibition. I'm like really close to the therapeutic threshold. I started getting the usual symptoms of nardil not working - sleeping really well, vivid dreams, and urinating more frequently. 

So yeah for those of you on the refrigerated version, it does seem to lose it's potency when out of the fridge for more than a few days. If you're not so close to the therapeutic threshold like me, then you may not notice it as much. 

Weight gain is a major problem for me on nardil and I'm too scared to even weigh myself now with all the weight I've put on. This is actually quite depressing. 

I've been trying calcium tablets because this helps absorb water and reduce fluid retention (a huge part of nardil weight gain) and so far it seems good but too early too tell. 

I've been half thinking of increasing to 60mg soon because I feel it's lost a bit of it's efficiency overall.


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

Hey shyone, do you take breaks from nardil and do you find it helps the anxiety part of nardil?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Is nardil recommended to be kept in fridge? I do not keep my in a fridge, but if there is no harm do you suggest I keep it there? I use Erfa Nardil , don't remember the pharmacist telling me to keep it in fridge


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

No, only some versions require refrigeration such as link (Australia) and Archimedes (UK). The ones in the US don't.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

shy-one said:


> No, only some versions require refrigeration such as link (Australia) and Archimedes (UK). The ones in the US don't.


Hey shy, have you ever augmented with Lyrica?


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

shy-one said:


> Weight gain is a major problem for me on nardil and I'm too scared to even weigh myself now with all the weight I've put on. This is actually quite depressing.
> 
> ...
> 
> I've been half thinking of increasing to 60mg soon because I feel it's lost a bit of it's efficiency overall.


Would your doctor be open to augmenting with amphetamine/ dextroamphetamine type meds? (Ie Adderall, Dexedrine). Could dramatically boost the antidepressant effects of Nardil without risk of weight gain.


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## animalguy (Sep 20, 2014)

shy-one said:


> No, only some versions require refrigeration such as link (Australia) and Archimedes (UK). The ones in the US don't.


Hey shyone, how are you doing on the Nardil? Still at 45mg?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Almost coming up to 4 years of being on nardil now, so thought i'd give a quick update. 

Still on 45mg and have put on a lot of weight, i'm 20kg heavier since starting nardil. It is extremely difficult to lose the weight. 

Still have a problem with insomnia, I always wake up every night without fail at about 1am, then i'm awake for about 2 - 3 hours, then finally get back to sleep. Now i've just become used to it and its part of my sleep cycle. I always expect to wake up at this time, and either listen to music or web browse etc. I take nitrazepam 1 - 2 times a week to get a good night sleep, and sometimes if i'm really lucky i'll sleep through the whole night, although rare. 

Weak/sore legs are still a problem when hiking, particularly walking up steep hills. After a while I also get sore hips as well. 

I've also noticed that it starts to lose its potency about 2 months before expiration. To compensate for this, i've increased by 15mg (half a tablet) as I don't want to waste the last two bottles. So far it seems to help. It also loses its potency when out of the fridge for too long, 1 - 2 days is fine but after a week I can tell its losing its potency. 

Overall i'm still doing ok, only mild depression at times but often situational, but still much less severe compared to what it was before nardil. Anxiety also very mild, but I wouldn't say i'm "pro social". 

I find that nardil also numbs my emotions, for good and bad. I generally can't feel as much emotion, but this also prevents me from falling into depression. At the same time I don't experience as much highs as I did before nardil. I also find that I have less empathy, and hardly anything ever makes me angry. Overall its probably worth the trade off, it basically puts a buffer on the low and high end, so i'm more in the middle. 

At this stage i'll probably be on nardil for the rest of my life, as I can't seem to function without it. Might end up going up to 60mg soon, as I feel 45mg is starting to lose its edge... possibly also because i'm 20kg more than when I first started.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

shy-one said:


> Almost coming up to 4 years of being on nardil now, so thought i'd give a quick update.
> 
> Still on 45mg and have put on a lot of weight, *i'm 20kg heavier* since starting nardil. It is extremely difficult to lose the weight.


That's 44 pounds for us Americans who live in our anti-metic bubble. That's a hell of a lot of weight that comes with a myriad of health risks.

hworth suggested augmenting with Lryica, which itself comes with risk of substantial weight gain. I think Lyrica at the max recommended dose of 600mg may have some minor anti-anxiety effect. I have this habit of ignoring dosing instructions to see what happens at higher levels. At higher levels I stumble about as if intoxicated by alcohol, but it's entirely different from alcohol as this deterioration of motor skills is not accompanied by any mental deterioration. So you're not buzzed or relaxed mentally, still fully able to do complex mental tasks like complete a tax return, even if you can't walk a straight line. Lyrica allegedly has abuse potential, something I can't fathom.

My view: unless you fail to respond to benzos and/or can't tolerate benzos you'd be nuts to try Lyrica.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> That's 44 pounds for us Americans who live in our anti-metic bubble. That's a hell of a lot of weight that comes with a myriad of health risks.


I know, but the risks of coming off nardil are worse, as i've tried a few times now. I've lost jobs as a result of trying to come off nardil, and had suicidal thoughts again.

So I guess i'll just have to be overweight 

BTW I noticed you're also on nardil now? I remember you saying you would never try it cause you were too scared, what changed?


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## mimu (Feb 16, 2015)

shy-one said:


> I know, but the risks of coming off nardil are worse, as i've tried a few times now. I've lost jobs as a result of trying to come off nardil, and had suicidal thoughts again.


Hey, shy-one, I just read through this whole thread and it seems like you've had a pretty crazy but overall successful(?) journey with Nardil. I'm really interested in trying this drug as i've been living in desperation the last 2-3 years. I've always been a really anxious person with a lot of health problems, but the real downfall started when I found out I had Glandular Fever. I went from going out every weekend, always had girlfriends, a lot of friends, played state level football, straight A's etc. etc. to a chronically ill wreck for a year. I ended up quitting school and starting distance education because I was literally half-conscious all day every day, nearly detached from reality, my grades and social interactions were completely destroyed. I then got food poisoning one night and it has made things worse ever since. It triggered the symptoms of 'Gilbert's Syndrome' (a genetic liver disorder) which according to the textbook bashing doctors, is 'benign' despite the thousands of people who's lives have been ruined by it and the studies that have proven otherwise. Basically the symptoms are 24/7 nausea, extreme brain fog, anxiety, depression, fatigue, tiredness and many more.

I have now gotten to the point where my life is completely ****ed. I never leave my house, I've stopped all communication with my friends and just completely ignore the hundreds of messages I have from them (Avoidant Personality Disorder, I ignore everything as a coping mechanism), I've deleted all my social media accounts, I can't concentrate on one single thing for more than 20-30 seconds which makes studying close to impossible, the slightest thought of social interactions makes me cringe, whenever I do I look like an autistic **** because I have forgotten how to to socialise and talk to new people, I'm physically sick all day because of my health problems, I can't eat much because I have IBS and I fear getting food poisoning again, which has resulted in me losing 20kg... you get the picture, I'm a complete loser and I feel like suicide could be a serious option in the next few years.

Sorry, I'm getting off topic and probably boring you, I just want to know if based off my story you think that Nardil could be a possible option? I've tried Lexapro, Zoloft, Diazepam and Amitriptyline a while ago and they weren't successful.

I have a few specific questions.

Does the Nardil give you Nausea at all? If not, could it's affects potentially help the nausea I have? Because i'm sure that anxiety makes it worse as well. This is a massive deciding factor in whether or not I could take it. The nausea I suffer from contributes massively to my social isolation and depression.

I have Postural orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, where I stand up and feel really dizzy and go blind for a few seconds. Do you think that the Nardil would make this a lot worse or not?

Does the Nardil actually keep your mind off worrying about the side effects it gives you? Because I'm certain I will placebo my self into having every side effect on the list given or any that anyone has complained of on here if it doesn't.

Do you think it could help my concentration? I've seen conflicting answers to this through different threads, some say it motivates them, some say it makes their memory bad...?

Honestly, is it really a long term solution in your opinion? It seems as if you've had a roller coaster. Is it worth all the periods of depression and anxiety you have been getting?

I understand that I should be asking the doctor these questions, but they're seriously clueless. The last doctor appointment I had (2 weeks ago) I explained everything I just told you and more to a new doctor and she recommends ****ing ant-acid tablets (that i've tried before) because 'the nausea could be reflux' -_- They have also often prescribed drugs that aren't even meant to be given to people with Gilbert's Syndrome. Totally useless, despite my love for science, I now have zero faith in doctors.

Thank you for reading all of that if you did, I understand if you don't have time to reply or you have enough of your own struggles to worry about. I spend all day every day in my room, eating the same food every day, anxious and depressed all day, underweight, not being able to concentrate on one thing. I ****ing hate my self.... I feel like Nardil could be the last hope of getting out of the place I'm in.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mimu said:


> I can't eat much because I have IBS and I fear getting food poisoning again, which has resulted in me losing 20kg... you get the picture, I'm a complete loser and I feel like suicide could be a serious option in the next few years.


Do you have IBS Diarrhea? if so nardil will be excellent.... a side effect of nardil is actually constipation. I have IBS-D and nardil has helped it greatly, especially at the start. In fact it helped more than any other IBS-D medication did!



> Sorry, I'm getting off topic and probably boring you, I just want to know if based off my story you think that Nardil could be a possible option? I've tried Lexapro, Zoloft, Diazepam and Amitriptyline a while ago and they weren't successful.


Absolutely. Nardil is the ONLY antidepressant that worked for me, and i've been on ALL the SSRI's, some TCA's, and a few anti psychotics.



> Does the Nardil give you Nausea at all? If not, could it's affects potentially help the nausea I have? Because i'm sure that anxiety makes it worse as well. This is a massive deciding factor in whether or not I could take it. The nausea I suffer from contributes massively to my social isolation and depression.


Nope.



> I have Postural orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, where I stand up and feel really dizzy and go blind for a few seconds. Do you think that the Nardil would make this a lot worse or not?


Sorry to say, but yes... mostly at the start. Nardil lowers your blood pressure quite a lot, and I actually passed out a few times when getting up in the night. However this does pass, and its worse at the start.



> Does the Nardil actually keep your mind off worrying about the side effects it gives you? Because I'm certain I will placebo my self into having every side effect on the list given or any that anyone has complained of on here if it doesn't.


Yes it did. I was terrified at the start and almost chickened out. I am still very cautious though, and I still do get a little anxious when eating new foods.



> Do you think it could help my concentration? I've seen conflicting answers to this through different threads, some say it motivates them, some say it makes their memory bad...?


It will definitely motivate you due to the dopamine. I have had MUCH more motivation to do things since being on nardil. I ended up leaving Australia and moving to Europe due to nardil. However yes, it has made my memory really bad, especially at the start. I was constantly forgetting everything and had to write even small things down. I have found that fish oil helps a lot with the memory loss, so i take 800mg a day.



> Honestly, is it really a long term solution in your opinion? It seems as if you've had a roller coaster. Is it worth all the periods of depression and anxiety you have been getting?


At this stage, it seems like its my ONLY solution. I will probably be on nardil for the rest of my life. So yes, its definitely a long term solution, but one that is also a pain with side effects. I had a rollercoaster ride at the start, tried to come off a few times etc. But now i'm stable as long as i'm on the right dose.



> I understand that I should be asking the doctor these questions, but they're seriously clueless. The last doctor appointment I had (2 weeks ago) I explained everything I just told you and more to a new doctor and she recommends ****ing ant-acid tablets (that i've tried before) because 'the nausea could be reflux' -_- They have also often prescribed drugs that aren't even meant to be given to people with Gilbert's Syndrome. Totally useless, despite my love for science, I now have zero faith in doctors.


Most doctors are idiots and useless when it comes to MAOIs. Everything I learnt was by myself with many many hours of research. I now consider myself to be a nardil expert.



> Thank you for reading all of that if you did, I understand if you don't have time to reply or you have enough of your own struggles to worry about. I spend all day every day in my room, eating the same food every day, anxious and depressed all day, underweight, not being able to concentrate on one thing. I ****ing hate my self.... I feel like Nardil could be the last hope of getting out of the place I'm in.


Sounds just like me. Nardil saved my life. It wiped out my depression and anxiety almost completely and gave me a lot of motivation. Please try it as soon as you can! I only wish I had tried it many years earlier instead of wasting time with useless SSRI's.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

shy-one said:


> Sounds just like me. Nardil saved my life. It wiped out my depression and anxiety almost completely and gave me a lot of motivation. Please try it as soon as you can! I only wish I had tried it many years earlier instead of wasting time with useless SSRI's.


shy-one! The nardil legend returns... do you have any advice for the other long-term Nardil-ites like myself and the others here on the boards?

I've found that 60mg just makes me too damn tired & odd-feeling so I've been doing 45mg daily all at once in the morning like you do (I believe?) and it's been much better

Apart from the Fish Oil daily, are there any other really good supplements or other things that you recommend taking with Nardil? And are you on any add-on medications with the Nardil?

I agree 100% with you on MAOIs being a game-changer, it has totally made me a different person than I used to be in a very good way. However, I don't know if it has given me the motivation lately that it gave you (moving to a different country, etc)... any tips on how to regain that? Do you cycle dose from 45mg every once in a while...? (If so, please explain the cycling for my sake haha)

Lastly, do you take breaks of no nardil for periods of time like some on the boards here do or no? I remember a long time ago you mentioned something about dropping to 30mg for a week or two and bumping back up to 45, but I'm not sure if you still recommend doing that or if you have better ideas about sustaining effect long-term and potentiating?

Sorry for the rambling, been a while since I've visited SAS and its awesome to see you happen to be here the same time!

(OH, and any advice for the whole weight-gain/bloating aspect?)


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I am still on an old batch of nardil that expires this month and because its lost its potency I have slipped back into depression. However, if I take an extra half a tablet it seems to make up for the potency loss, just half a tablet puts me back over the therapeutic threshold!

I have recently discovered there is a direct correlation with nardil efficacy and amount of sleep. As soon as my sleep starts improving I also start feeling more depressed and this means nardil isn't working. So its either insomnia and working, or sleeping well and not working. Perhaps its the increase of dopamine that causes insomnia?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

hworth said:


> shy-one! The nardil legend returns... do you have any advice for the other long-term Nardil-ites like myself and the others here on the boards?
> 
> I've found that 60mg just makes me too damn tired & odd-feeling so I've been doing 45mg daily all at once in the morning like you do (I believe?) and it's been much better


yep, 60mg was too much for me. I've settled on 45mg but i've gone back to taking 2 in the morning and 1 at night again.



> Apart from the Fish Oil daily, are there any other really good supplements or other things that you recommend taking with Nardil? And are you on any add-on medications with the Nardil?


Nope, thats about it really. Fish oil help with the poor memory from nardil.



> I agree 100% with you on MAOIs being a game-changer, it has totally made me a different person than I used to be in a very good way. However, I don't know if it has given me the motivation lately that it gave you (moving to a different country, etc)... any tips on how to regain that? Do you cycle dose from 45mg every once in a while...? (If so, please explain the cycling for my sake haha)


Yeah I mostly had motivation at the start, its less now but still more than it was when I was depressed. I haven't been cycling anymore, I don't think it works as well when you've been on nardil for a long time... it just makes me very depressed when lowering.



> Lastly, do you take breaks of no nardil for periods of time like some on the boards here do or no? I remember a long time ago you mentioned something about dropping to 30mg for a week or two and bumping back up to 45, but I'm not sure if you still recommend doing that or if you have better ideas about sustaining effect long-term and potentiating?


I've tried a few times but I ended up getting too depressed. If you're going to take a break from nardil to catch up on sleep or lose weight, i'd recommend not lowering it for more than 1 week at a time.



> Sorry for the rambling, been a while since I've visited SAS and its awesome to see you happen to be here the same time!
> 
> (OH, and any advice for the whole weight-gain/bloating aspect?)


I wish! i've gained 20kg since being on nardil and always feel bloated  I guess its the price I have to pay to not have depression/anxiety. Now that winter is over i'm trying hard to exercise again.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Hey i'm back... lately i've been getting more depressed again and losing motivation. I'm still on 45mg but probably going to bump it up to 60mg. I want those blissful days back at the start when it first kicked in. Only thing i'm concerned about is worse insomnia and increased weight gain - I'm barely getting 5 hours sleep a night as it is. 

Also an update on the food interactions, i've had a few hypertensive crisis's and as far as I can remember all of them have been from meat, in particular beef steak. Be very cautious with steak!!! I also knew someone else on nardil that had two hypertensive reactions to steak. If I do have steak, I try and keep it to a minimal amount. Most of the time my blood pressure reached around 200/100 but interestingly I never once got the infamous migraine. I just feel really tense and anxious, almost like a panic attack. Perhaps I just have wider arteries in my head or something? When it occurred I just took some valium which seems to help a lot.


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## V1bzz (Feb 20, 2017)

*The 90's took its toll!*

This thread is making me excited (even though im over worrying about my blood pressure) as to what's to come for me on Nardil.

I'm on day 4, day 1 15mg, day 2 15mg, day 3 30mg, day 4 45mg.

Can't really say how im feeling as I'm feeling kinda crappy from withdrawals from escitalopram.

I also, like many in this thread have tried everything.

I suffer from panic attacks, massive anxiety where sometimes i can't even talk and paranoia.

I was a raver in the early 90's and massive over indulged in bass, which was the strongest type of speed at the time and was like a paste.

Suffered in silence with anxiety and massive depressive states up until 2014 where i finally spoke to a doctor.

On my 2nd doc now as i felt the first one really didn't give a damn if i was getting better or not.
The 2nd doctor seems cool, ive only seen her twice, both times have said what i want to try. This latest time was for Nardil after finding out about it.

It really sounds like a miracle, really hope it works for me. I'm so tired of wasting my life away. I have no social life, not any friends i meet up with and i'm single and lonely.

Looking forward to good times ahead. I hope the original posters in this thread are still active, I kinda feel like i have taken the journey with you and hope to speak about how you are feeling now etc.

hope all is well!


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