# Does an Atheist believe in Chi?



## Chrisstine (Jun 2, 2014)

Several years ago, I stopped believing in a deity. It was a process that happened over several years for me. I have done tai chi for about 15 years now & still believe that there is an energy within us. I'm wondering if one is an atheist if one still holds beliefs such as this. There's no wrong answer here. I'm looking for honest opinions and appreciate your feedback.


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## Gwynevere (Oct 6, 2013)

Yeah you can still consider yourself an atheist, as long as you don't believe in any deities. I think it's rare for atheists in the US to hold beliefs like that since most of us don't just identify as atheist but also tend to identify as skeptics and disbelieve all supernatural claims. Probably less rare in the east for an atheist to believe in that though, since I think the religion that believes in chi is taoism and different branches of taoism differ in whether they believe in deities or not, so many taoists are likely also atheists.


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## moloko (May 1, 2013)

Yeah, I'm atheist for as long as I can remember but the idea of Qi makes a lot of sense to me.


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## StillSearching42 (Feb 7, 2014)

As Gwynevere said, by definition alone an atheist can believe in concepts such as chi. She also correctly described many of us as skeptical. For me this means searching for evidence. I spent most my 20s teaching martial arts and i have studied them for much of my life. I was always more interested in practical application over tradition but the idea of chi was certainly exciting. However, I never found chi to be anything more than a combination of breath control and focus. While these are important and worth pursuing, they are not what I thought of as energy (something that could physically manifested). Any brick breaking or other feats of strentgh can be accomplished with no knowledge of chi. I have seen dramatic no touch knock-outs, but they only work when both people (attacker and defender) strongly believe in chi...this suggests something else is going on. 

Of course with a more scientific description, perhaps things like breath control are connected to energy. My knowledge is limited here but doesn't the respiratory process do something with ATP that results in energy for our cells. Calories in food can also be seen as measurements of energy. However, i always viewed chi as something beyond natural biological processes, as there is talk of it being "cultivated" and someone who has practiced for decades can have more chi than the rest of us. 

While i may sound negative on chi i do believe in the health benefits of things like tai chi or yoga. They improve strength, flexibility, focus, and breathing, in addition to being good for injury prevention and recovery. 

Finally, you have studied tai chi for a long time, so maybe you have a better understanding of what chi means. I would be interested in any new perspective.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Gwynevere said:


> Yeah you can still consider yourself an atheist, as long as you don't believe in any deities. I think it's rare for atheists in the US to hold beliefs like that since most of us don't just identify as atheist but also tend to identify as skeptics and disbelieve all supernatural claims. Probably less rare in the east for an atheist to believe in that though, since I think the religion that believes in chi is taoism and different branches of taoism differ in whether they believe in deities or not, so many taoists are likely also atheists.


There are plenty of atheists who don't believe because they just don't care, and there are plenty of atheists who were simply born into atheist families and never bothered to join a religion. Not all atheists arrive at being an atheist because they are a skeptic.

As for the OP's question, no I don't believe it unless there is evidence. It doesn't really matter much to me either way because the belief/disbelief in "chi" is not used to form/influence legislature that would deny someone else's rights.


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## longthinframe (Jun 26, 2014)

No it is bollocks.


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## CheezusCrust (May 23, 2013)

There are some who believe in chi, but atheists who consider themselves skeptics generally don't. I don't believe such a thing exists.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

Atheism isn't a world view, it's a position on one particular subject.

Some Atheists will believe in Chi, others won't.

I personally don't.


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## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

Yes you can be. I don't personally believe in it, but I've seen more evidence for it that I couldn't counter than for a lot of other spiritual phenomenon so I'm keeping an open mind to the concept.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Since you don't consider Chi/Qi to be a deity that you worship, yes. I don't believe in it, though.


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## Tarantula152 (Aug 24, 2014)

*If you believe that there is an energy within us, then you are believing in a fact.

There have been hundreds of studies that prove humans produce electrical currents when they pass. So, you're not really believing in it when it's a fact.*


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## HookedOnEbonics (Sep 3, 2014)

Atheist is without a belief in a god and/or diety(s)

Atheism does not relate to beliefs of energy.
Energy exists! It's a fundemental compound of life. Positive, negative, neutral. It's found within ancient wisdom, our atomic structures, batteries, and so forth.


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## Dre12 (Jul 25, 2014)

'Energy within us' is such a vague term. Are you talking about a universal connectivity that is apparent within us all, something akin to the force in Star Wars?

Is there any evidence of this energy be harnessed or quantified beyond the anecdotal?


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## CircadianRythym (Mar 31, 2012)

Depends on your definitions of 'god' and 'energy'. Some people view 'chi' energy as the first, primary 'thing' of the universe and therefore liken that to a god. So if chi energy in your opinion is some how tied to the eternal, maybe by definition youre not really an atheist and more of an agnostic. 

And lol at all these skeptics hating. She didnt ask you to judge her beliefs. She asked you to answer her question. Stay on topic.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Dre12 said:


> 'Energy within us' is such a vague term. Are you talking about a universal connectivity that is apparent within us all, something akin to the force in Star Wars?
> 
> Is there any evidence of this energy be harnessed or quantified beyond the anecdotal?


Exactly, is this adenosine triphosphate we are talking about or the Force or some other mystical energy?


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## sithninja (Jun 19, 2015)

*I do anyway...*

Hey Chrisstine.
I've been out and out atheist only a few months, but have been moving to that place for decades. I recently found myself wondering the same thing - re: chi - and have been doing a little research. As there is no empirical evidence DISproving the existence of chi I have chosen to accept the _possibility_ of its existence until i see conflicting and convincing evidence otherwise.
Sincerely,
SNinja


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## herk (Dec 10, 2012)

my chi is strong


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

sithninja said:


> Hey Chrisstine.
> I've been out and out atheist only a few months, but have been moving to that place for decades. I recently found myself wondering the same thing - re: chi - and have been doing a little research. As there is no empirical evidence DISproving the existence of chi I have chosen to accept the _possibility_ of its existence until i see conflicting and convincing evidence otherwise.
> Sincerely,
> SNinja


There is no empirical evidence disproving the existence of invisible sky unicorns either, so do you consider them plausible as well?


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## Hylar (Jul 15, 2014)

I would say yes


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

Qi is real. It can be felt within. ASMR as well.

Not a case of belief.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

caveman8 said:


> Qi is real. It can be felt within. ASMR as well.
> 
> Not a case of belief.


The reality of ASMR I can understand, as it's just a totally subjective experience. I know I experience ASMR when listening to certain songs or learning about certain things. It's a wonderful feeling.  I know it's all in my own head though so no supernatural element. It's simply a neurochemical process. If you are familiar with MDMA and similar drugs you should know how their serotoninergic action frequently generates AMSR experiences.

Chi/qi however is more about the concept of some mysterious objective "life force/energy" which depending on definition can be debated and implausible.

Can you explain why your definition of qi is?


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

Internal energy. It can be felt and moved within, eg microcosmic orbit. It noticeably decreases after sex and builds up during periods of abstinence.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

caveman8 said:


> Internal energy. It can be felt and moved within, eg microcosmic orbit. It noticeably decreases after sex and builds up during periods of abstinence.


"microcosmic orbit"? Can you explain more about what that is?

I can understand what are you experiencing is a facet of your own consciousness so subjectively real, but do you believe it's more than just subjective?

Also, why does sex have an effect on it?


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

Microcosmic orbit is a qi meditation practice where you move the qi starting around the lower back area, up the channel in back, up over the head and then down through the front channel of the body, and repeat. Qi is like ASMR - a definite feeling and wouldn't call it subjective - it just is - like orgasm I guess. Sex decreases the intensity of feeling, because it releases internal energy. I'm kind of surprised that no one touched upon the actual feeling of qi earlier here.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

caveman8 said:


> Microcosmic orbit is a qi meditation practice where you move the qi starting around the lower back area, up the channel in back, up over the head and then down through the front channel of the body, and repeat. Qi is like ASMR - a definite feeling and wouldn't call it subjective - it just is - like orgasm I guess. Sex decreases the intensity of feeling, because it releases internal energy. I'm kind of surprised that no one touched upon the actual feeling of qi earlier here.


That just sounds like an effect of focusing consciousness. Nothing you have said isn't indicative that it's nothing but subjective. All feelings are.

I can appreciate it could well be a useful exercise though as I very much agree with the benefits of meditation.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

It's focusing to move within. If it was just consciousness the feeling would be absent. You can feel it going around and around. This is common knowledge in qigong, so like I said the absence of discussion on the physical aspect is a bit puzzling to me.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

Ugh, can you feel your qi?


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

caveman8 said:


> It's focusing to move within. If it was just consciousness the feeling would be absent. You can feel it going around and around. This is common knowledge in qigong, so like I said the absence of discussion on the physical aspect is a bit puzzling to me.


But it could well be the focus of conciousness that is generating the sensation.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

caveman8 said:


> Ugh, can you feel your qi?


No.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

But you can feel ASMR. Switch title of thread - does an atheist believe in ASMR...not relevant.

Rereading the OP, has practiced tai chi 15 years and doesn't mention feeling qi? That is pretty much next to impossible after training for that length of time. Someone needs a refund.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

caveman8 said:


> But you can feel ASMR.


Indeed so I assume it may be a somewhat similar sensation.


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## The Sleeping Dragon (Sep 29, 2011)

Does an atheist _believe_. You answered your own question.

If I feel like I'm santa clause does that mean I'm santa clause? No. Just 'feeling something' is not proof.


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## Diáfanos (Feb 3, 2011)

How do one explain living organisms and bio-energetics in terms of the worlds physical laws? And Vital-ism was a thing back then.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

The Sleeping Dragon said:


> Does an atheist _believe_. .
> 
> If I feel like I'm santa clause does that mean I'm santa clause? No. Just 'feeling something' is not proof.


So remember that next time you feel pain. No proof - no Oxys.

Feeling like Santa Claus is a state of mind, an emotion, not a neutral physical sensation.

ASMR is also criticized in this way.


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## The Sleeping Dragon (Sep 29, 2011)

caveman8 said:


> So remember that next time you feel pain. No proof - no Oxys.
> 
> Feeling like Santa Claus is a state of mind, an emotion, not a neutral physical sensation.
> 
> ASMR is also criticized in this way.





> The nature and classification of the ASMR phenomenon is controversial, with strong anecdotal evidence to support the phenomenon but little or no scientific explanation or verified data.


Pain on the other hand is such a strange example. It's not just a feeling. It has been studied a lot. We know exactly what pain is. And everybody experiences it, making it a lot more tangable than something like chi, what only a few seem to 'feel' for a lack of a better word.

Chi is a purely hypothetical concept. And has absolutely no scientific basis. So 'feeling something' is not enough.

Long story short. Chi is bull**** and it requires faith. Atheists do not deal with faith.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

The Sleeping Dragon said:


> Pain on the other hand is such a strange example. It's not just a feeling. It has been studied a lot. We know exactly what pain is. And everybody experiences it, making it a lot more tangable than something like chi, what only a few seem to 'feel' for a lack of a better word.
> 
> Chi is a purely hypothetical concept. And has absolutely no scientific basis. So 'feeling something' is not enough.
> 
> Long story short. Chi is bull**** and it requires faith. Atheists do not deal with faith.


It's not hypothetical. It's real, and faith is irrelevant. Just because science hasn't been able to detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like pain, everyone can experience qi - it's just a matter of learning how to detect it.


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## The Sleeping Dragon (Sep 29, 2011)

caveman8 said:


> It's not hypothetical. It's real, and faith is irrelevant.





caveman8 said:


> Just because science hasn't been able to detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Fine than I say I feel I have an invisible third arm. And if you would meditate hard enough everybody would notice he/she has it too. Just because science hasn't been able to detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

With this logic we have no science. We can only accept something as fact when it has been proven. Emperically. So yes chi is hypothetical, and no evidence has ever been found. Yes it *could* be that we haven't found it let, maybe in time we will. But as long as we have nothing to back the claim up, we must say it doesn't exist. We can't base facts on maybe and if.

People can't just make **** up because they 'feel something' and than say it's fact even though there is no evidence. No evidence no fact.

(And I'm not an educated man, just an enthusiast, so if I said something strange in terms of science, please correct me.)


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

Dumb and dumber. You can't feel a third arm. You can feel qi.

No evidence has been found for ASMR either. People aren't making it up. To say we had nothing to back it up is wrong too. The Chinese have developed arts around this for thousands of years. And no, we don't have to say it doesn't exist - we have to say how can we detect it. Your whole point assumes that science knows everything that could be known.

How about orgasm then? Science doesn't know why it feels so good - does that mean the feeling doesn't exist?

Tell me something - can you feel your qi? If not, look it up, practice, don't ejaculate for a couple months, and come back and discuss your findings.


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## forgetmylife (Oct 1, 2011)

no. most atheists subscribe to science, or so I thought...

but to each their own I guess


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## ShinigamiKai (Aug 6, 2015)

As a skeptical atheist, no, I don't believe in chi. No snark but before this thread, I seriously did think being skeptical was an automatic part of atheism.


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