# Why are you Atheist/Agnostic? What is your outlook on life w/o being religious?



## username4me

I've had an internal battle with my own religion. I've moved from Catholic to Atheist to Agnostic. It's an endless loop. And I really honestly want to hear from firm Atheists' point of view. I've been surrounded by Catholicism every since I was in middle school, so I have firm experience of the side of being Catholic. I just want to learn both sides, so I can evaluate and understand. 

A religious friend of mine asked one day, "I don't see the point in NOT being Catholic. Catholicism gives comfort and means well. Catholicism encourages the goodness of oneself towards others. It's a guideline of goodness. Why NOT be Catholic? Why be atheist? What's the point? Don't you feel alone/bitter?"

Why are you Atheist/Agnostic? What is your outlook on life, is it positive, cynical or meh? Benefits of being Atheist/Agnostic? (Sorry, if I am ignorant.) Thanks.


----------



## rg8813

I don't believe in God for the same reason I don't believe in unicorns-- there is not enough evidence.

I grew up Catholic as well and I wouldn't say Catholicism teaches only good things. The thousands and thousands of cover ups of child rape isn't exactly the greatest thing in the world. And the fact that no Catholics seem to care about it either. Not to mention missionaries going to Africa and telling the people that condom use is a sin. And don't get me started on the bible...

Hope this doesn't sound mean. It's not intended to be!


----------



## username4me

No, that's how you feel. I am taught in a Catholic school, so I would say Catholicism means well. Plus, the bible is full of nonsense of centuries ago, seriously. but thanks!


----------



## arnie

Same reason I don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Ra or Poseidon.


----------



## Anyanka

Honestly, I am somewhat bewildered about the question 'Why NOT be Catholic?'. Sure, in theory there are arguements against it. But, those aside, to be Catholic is to have a certain set of beliefs - a set that not everyone has. You can't just flick a switch to change your belief system - but that's freewill for you.

I'm agnostic because there is not enough proof for or against the existance of god(s) - though, alas, it's a lot easier to prove something exists than to prove that it doesn't! I wouldn't say there are benefits - it is what you make of it. The same applies to religion. 

I believe almost (if not) every human is inbuilt with some sense of goodness and morality. While religion can help guide people with it, you don't inherently need religion to have such traits. For example, just because I don't think some god or holy scripture commands me not to kill people, or steal, doesn't mean I'm going to go ahead and do those things. Religion can help guide peoples lives and bring great joy through faith, but, people also have the capacity to bring this fulfillment to themselves.

Personally, I don't have any set belief that a higher being expects us to live or act a certain way. So that's not where my morality and view on life comes from. But that view is still, for the most part, optimistic (depression aside). The world and nature is filled with beauty, regardless of how it came to be. Then there is life and humanity - such incredibly complicated things that work together with the world and beyond to flourish. The world isn't prefect, of course. We have a lot of manmade problems, for starters. But if we can work past the obsticles we are bound to see an incredible future for many more generations. 

Morality helps this all to function in society. Without morality, everything would spiral into chaos. Instead, morality helps to keep order and with it we can aspire to reach new heights and expand the world to it's greatest potential. 

With or without a higher power, the world isn't perfect. But it can, at times, be so beautiful that it brings a grown person to tears.


----------



## Dragonair

I've always had a spite for organized religion because of the way it's been abused by rulers and fought wars over. It just seems like science is a more unifying mindset because rather than arguing over beliefs it's debating and being in the constant search for knowledge. Just think about all the irrational hatred people have for each other because a religion said that their personal choices are wrong. 

I'm not saying science doesn't have its faults. It can be corrupted and abused as well if nobody tries to prove everything for themselves. But that is why science classes always make you do these seemingly boring experiments; it's the effort to help people see how things work. I feel that if more people would just look past all these doctrines that religious groups instill in them, there would be a lot more tolerance, if people would just think and figure and discover for themselves. 
I don't care if someone believes in God, I won't give them crap for it unless they're giving other people crap for no real reason. You can believe in any deities and still believe in evolution, but I still think that's kind of shutting away reality because as an atheist, I don't see how they can exist. You could say atheism is a religion bc yes, who knows if there's a deity, or if it does it redefines what we think deities are. But for now, I'm just going to go with the idea that it's impossible. 

I'm going to warn you, it gets terrifying and depressing thinking about death with no afterlife. But in time, i think you just accept it to where it's not on your mind so much. I used to be pagan but stopped believing only a couple years ago.


----------



## zonebox

I'm agnostic because I don't know if there is some form of higher sentience responsible for all of this, and I am atheist because I don't have faith that there is.

I have tried prayer in the past, but it doesn't give me the same sensation it does other people for some sort of confirmation.


----------



## YoshiSAS

I guess I'm just not as open-minded. In my mind, God is just as real as a Unicorn is, because both don't have evidence. I could say I believed in a flying spaghetti monster, and not listen to anybody else's opinion simply because they couldn't prove that one doesn't exist.

What is my outlook on life with no God? The universe has always been here, and it is constantly expanding. We are made with nothing but star dust (which is proved), and when we die we go back into our original form - just star dust floating throughout the universe.


----------



## username4me

Very insightful. and I'm starting to understand the "other side." I've been around Catholicism since birth, so I've always been oblivious. I've read that agnosticism is kind of like the "unwanted puppy" in the Atheism world. (I'm reading Life of Pi). Because they tend to be "in doubt" or "lazy." I've considered myself agnostic, but I'm always optimistic for an afterlife. Thanks guys!


----------



## rg8813

Hmmm. I could say I think I'm God. You can't prove that I'm not...


----------



## QuietKid1

God, Easter Bunny, Bigfoot etc. All fall into the same category. They all have amazing background stories but when you look into it thats all there is. I can't say for sure god doesn't exist but I can say even if he was real, I still wouldn't worship him. I don't agree with the way he rules, lets innocents die and completely ignored all of my prayers. If I was god I would at least come down once in a while to show people I exist and what I expect from them. God is from the hood because he never visits his children 

But no, I can't dedicate my life to something I speculate is real. Especially when there are over 1,000 religions out there. I've studied three religions so far and they're Christianity, Islam, and Satanism. Surprisingly, out of all three satanism spreaded the most positive message. I'm not a satanist though, I just give every religion a chance no matter what it is. I don't know what I'll study next.

I personally believe religion was made to keep the population in control but thats just me.


----------



## anonymid

Well, I didn't have a religious education or upbringing, so I'm an atheist by default (and I've never had any reason to change my mind). I've never had any negative personal experiences with religion, or been under any social pressure to be religious, so it's not something I've ever had to define myself against. I really can't say whether my life would be better or worse if I were a believer, since I've never been on that side of the fence.

As for my outlook on life, I don't know. The world is sometimes scary, sometimes amazing, sometimes beautiful, sometimes ugly . . . I try to keep in my mind that how I feel about people, life, and the world at any given moment is never the whole picture. I have a lot of negative beliefs about myself, but I try not to project those onto the world as a whole.


----------



## rac

Not religious, but I try to respect other peoples' beliefs. It feels a little silly to compare Christianity with Viking or Egyptian Mythology. It's more important to respect peoples' values.


----------



## rg8813

rac said:


> Not religious, but I try to respect other peoples' beliefs. It feels a little silly to compare Christianity with Viking or Egyptian Mythology. It's more important to respect peoples' values.


If someone says they believe in aliens, they are mocked and called crazy. How is believing in a guy with a long white beard who lives in the clouds, reads your thoughts (and for some reason doesn't like female gym teachers or Broadway plays) any less crazy?

Why is it socially acceptable to mock religions like Scientology or Mormonism but not Christianity? I don't get it.


----------



## worldcitizen

I'm agnostic because I'm enlightened. Life without religion, however, su*ks.


----------



## stradd

worldcitizen said:


> I'm agnostic because I'm enlightened. Life without religion, however, su*ks.


Au contraire, many of the people I know who are Atheist are far happier and more fulfilled in their lives than those who are devout Christians. Only anecdotal evidence of course, but that's my experience. I actually think life would improve forever everyone if we were more skeptical and were willing to question things more.

Also, I always think of the saying "respect is earned, not given". I don't subscribe to this concept that all beliefs and view points are to be inherently respected. Here's an extreme example, if there was a isolated island society in which it was a ritual for a mans daughter to be raped when she becomes age 5, and child molestation is ok within the culture and it's ok to murder people for fun, would you immediately respect that cultures view points and lifestyles? No, I'd wager you wouldn't, because they have done nothing to earn it.

As for the OPs question, I don't think there is a reason to life and frankly, I don't think there needs to be one. I don't think we are here for any reason at all and there's no purpose to our lives, we just are, we enjoy what we have, and we leave.


----------



## Mjolnir

All I know is I don't know what the who/what/why/how of our existence and neither does anyone else.

I guess that makes me Agnostic, but don't really like that word as it means you are not sure.

Well I am damn sure I do not know who/what/how/why we exist. No one else, human, knows either.


----------



## deesonjame

Firstly, there is nothing wrong with being Catholic if you crave the social or moral aspects of the religion.

However, whether you truly believe in the existence of Jesus Christ and god etc. is another matter altogether. Scientology can also mean well and have lots of ethics. But does that mean you should believe in it?


----------



## ZeroAlucard27

My outlook on life is governed by one thing: hard work. If I give my best every single day and if I can make at least one person smile every day, then I'm doing my job. I don't need some invisible man in the sky to help me.

I'm also agnostic (bordering atheist) because nobody has ever given a straight answer to the million dollar question: "why do bad things happen to good people?" Fact of the matter is, I also can't get behind an organization that rapes children and gets away with it.


----------



## diamondheart89

I made the same sort of journey as you, just not from christianity. A part of me misses being part of the positivity and the community aspect of religion. It's hard not having that safety net there. But at the same time, my mind doesn't allow me to live pretending all the crap religion does to people is okay and that all the hate and brainwashing being perpetrated is acceptable. Also once you start questioning things instead of believing them blindly, you cannot ever go back.


----------



## Daniel C

My parents aren't Christian so I was never given a reason to believe in God and I never did. I think the world is most like one large machine, inherently without sense, purpose, or values. There is no reason to think that anything we do has any greater consequence. "The life of man is of no greater importance to the universe than that of an oyster," as David Hume put it. Though it costs some effort to accept your life is never going to transcend the temporal and accedental, it also gives some remarking sense of freedom, I think. We have been dropped in the circus of life with no one caring one bit about how we're going to spend our time, so we'd just as well enjoy it. Not that I'm currently being very succesful in enjoying my time, but I guess my life would be even harder when I'd currently have the feeling it was of some immense importance.


----------



## IcedOver

I'd consider myself an agnostic, although I'm not a militant prick about it (I get quite annoyed at the hate-filled "Freedom from Religion" people). It's not a big deal for me, nor do I consider it very much. For me, it's just the basic impossibility of knowing the true nature/creation of the cosmos/living beings. By the same token, I feel it's impossible to be atheist, because you just don't know either way. Sometimes I do feel that a god must exist or have existed, but I no longer find it possible to link it to a specific religion (I was raised Catholic, went to Sunday school, confirmation, the whole deal). Honestly, I don't know if I ever really felt or believed the reality of the Christian stories.

Faith is fine, but from my viewpoint you have to realize that the stories of conventional religion are just that -- fiction tales handed down through the ages. These tales are no different than the myths of ancient Greece or Rome or, really, contemporary super hero/comic book stories except for the fact that some of the people involved actually existed. The characters were created to exemplify the best (Jesus) and worst (Judas/other evil characters) in human nature, and to be teaching tools, and that's just fine.


----------



## Persephone The Dread

I'm empirical agnostic. Though I also really feel a strong connection to most neo pagan religions and Buddhism.

For me the agnostic part essentially is because I don't know for sure if God (in any form) exists or not, so being part of a theistic religion doesn't make sense to me personally, neither does being an atheist because I just don't know. It hasn't been proven or dis-proven yet definitively.

I don't think in my case it makes my life any less rich or comforting. To me the whole of life on this planet is a pretty amazing thing, considering we've not found anything like it in the universe yet. The whole 'circle of life' thing may sound cheesy, but it's true. We're born and then we die and contribute to the eco system in some way. Well if you're buried  and other animals and plants do anyway.

As a child most people I knew were religious, not all Christians though the majority of children at my school were with a strong minority of Hindu's and Muslims. I guess I identified with Christianity best, until my early teens when I thought about things more from my own perspective. When we were younger we sang hymns and stuff so it was a pretty Christian environment even though it was not a religious school.


----------



## elDiablo

i was raised in a muslim family and country. i was too religious person. islam is more "institutional and bigoted" religion than others i know. so it's very hard to get rid of islam. not only rational/logical evidence but also psychological conditionals helped me to get rid of religion. god never heard me.


----------



## Alaska girl

*Comfort in no religion*

If you need to believe in something to give you comfort , so be it. I get comfort from believing in what I can see and what science can prove. Nothing beats a bright day ,blue sky, smell of alders and a happy dog


----------



## General2

I want to know how God rejectors explain the origin of laws of physics & justify the great diversty of creatures around them. I always find them irrational.


----------



## Otherside

I guess I want something that makes logical sense in my brain before I believe in them. My brain tries to work out how things work, it wants to understand, and the more I understand and learn about genetics, the more that makes sense to me, and the more I struggle to see how God has any place in the world.

By asking me to believe that humans have a soul is asking me to take some great leap of faith. I don't know what I believe. I don't like the idea that we have no free will whatsoever, that every thought and action is the consequence of chemical reactions taking place in our brain, but it makes sense to me. At the same time, it feels as though I have some sort of free will. I'm not really sure though. 

I just don't understand God and religion and the way they say the things are make no sense to me. I'm not comfortable believing in something that makes no sense for the sake of believing or for a little comfort in the world. I don't believe there's anything after death. You die and that's that. I sturggle to believe theres some otherworldly plain out there where the dead souls of people go. My mind just can't comprehend this or see how it makes sense, and it doesn't like that. I want to understand things, my brain spends a lot of time trying to work out what life really is and trying to make sense of things. I suppose we all choose what we believe in. But see, I'm not looking for comfort, just some understanding. I may not like the truth of this existance, but at least I'll have the answers, which is all I've ever searched for. Answers, and understanding.

If I was gonna believe in any religion, I suppose buddhism is what I'd believe in. I like it's approach to life, and to me, there's some sense to it. But then is buddhism real a religion, or are buddhists atheists? They don't exactly have any believe in any deity, and there's some sense to it. It may not seem it, but there's an attraction to being free of everything, and reaching enlightenment and ceasing to exist in the way you are, and yet, your energy continues to exist and become a part of it. Thats one of the set laws of thermodynamics-energy can never be created or destroyed, only transferred from one form to another. And even if we don't have souls, seems the buddha hit the nail on the head. Our "energies" or the chemicals that make us up are broken down when we die, and we return to what we were originally...nitrates, nitrites, carbons, that seep into the soil or the atmosphere and become a part of everything else, a part of life itself, the elements and compounds that make us being being absorbed and eaten by plants and animals that create new life. I suppose that means we're Immortal in a way. What we were continues to exist in another form. What we were just doesn't die. I suppose thats the same in a way as "being returned to the dust that made you" but heck, what we are is far from dust, because when it comes down to it, in everything there is the simplist and most basic building blocks of everything-protons, neutrons and electrons that make up atoms and ions that make up compounds that allow everything to function. Dust would in fact, be made up of something more complex, and last I checked, dust wasn't an element.

I'm sure that makes no sense to anyone.


----------



## bsd3355

As far as emotions go, it's pretty much the same. As far as being open to new ideas, I feel like it has expanded. Also, I do have a sense of distaste for seeing how people are basically ignoring the evolutionary reasons as to why we create religion, etc, and then we go around say it's because we are "divine" somehow. As far as I know and from what I understand about biology and evolution, we are just acting on our instincts and then exaggerating its meaning. I don't think religious people are stupid at all, so that's not where I'm coming from either.


----------



## carpeviente

I spent part of my life growing up in Israel. I'm agnostic because I've seen religion (of all faiths) being used to justify doing horrible, nasty, ugly things to fellow human beings. Based on what I've seen and experienced organized monotheism is the single biggest source of evil in the world.


----------



## arnie

username4me said:


> A religious friend of mine asked one day, "I don't see the point in NOT being Catholic. Catholicism gives comfort and means well. Catholicism encourages the goodness of oneself towards others. It's a guideline of goodness. Why NOT be Catholic? Why be atheist? What's the point? Don't you feel alone/bitter?"


Religion gives people hope. It has a calming effect. It's easier to get through life if you think that everything is under God's control and will turn out all right in the end.

Doesn't change the fact that it's not true and I can't just choose to believe in something.


----------



## Ignopius

My skepticism overall led to my atheism. One day I was in a chat room and one of the guys in the room wasn't a Christian. I began to type vigorously throwing tons of bible verses at him left and right. I had been taught by the church I went to, to bring other people to Jesus. 

After raging off, fast forward a year or two later, one night I was sitting in my bed pondering my beliefs. How do I know God is real? How do I truly know Jesus is divine? I prayed to God because these questions really troubled me. The next day I went online and started listening to debate on the subject. Generally I found the atheist side to be far more compelling. I even begin watching some of Bart Ehrmans debate with other scholars in the same field. I learned about , the big bang, and other scientific theories that I had been told were false. After all this research as a 13 year old boy, I shifted to being an atheist. I'm now 16 almost 17 and understand even more about what I believe and why.I'll will never look back on the dark days of Christianity.


----------



## Mister Spirit

I don't have faith. It's really as simple as that. Since faith in a god is personal, nothing substantial can be provided. Back when I did have faith, I was convinced that god was real. But, I started questioning everything and re-reading religious text. I stayed away from the influence of fellowship and slowly regained my previous way of thinking. The universe is far too complex and massive to understand. We could have been created by other lifeforms. I just don't think there is a simple explanation for our existence that can be knowable through a book or through people.


----------



## Arthur Pendragon

The reason why many of these religions survive for so long is because it is so easy to believe in them. Tautological arguments are the bane of a good religion's existence. In the case of Christianity, faith in Him will allow you to see more proof of His existence. However, it is important to note that just because a certain decision is the easier one does not make it correct. As an atheist, I actually envy those who can have faith in a religion, as it would allow the development of certain life goals and the pursuit of true happiness, contrary to my life of underlying skepticism and doubt.


----------



## DreamerInSlumberland

I'm Agnostic, but spiritual. I do like learning about other religions, and may adopt a moralistic code based on something I agree on, especially with many earth/nature-based pagan traditions. However, I can't commit myself to a religion knowing well I may believe in something false. I'd also rather enjoy life than worship death. I just don't think we're meant to have the answers, and don't think we will ever have them.

I just see more pain, violence, and suffering as a result of organized religion from the past and present. I can't be part of something that enables it. If there is a god, I see him/she/it as a parent who loves their child unconditionally. Not as a tyrant, or a deity who demands we worship it. But as a loving god who wishes the best for it's creations, and that includes all living species, the planet and everything occupied within the universe. God to me is simply the origin of the Universe.


----------



## mr snuffles

i really don't care what people want to believe in it doesn't matter to me so long as they aren't trying to make me believe im cool with it.
if you hate being told god exists why tell others he doesn't that just makes you the same as who you hated in the first place.
i honestly don't see why we can't all get along without challenging each others beliefs


----------



## Staticnz

I am agnostic on the grounds that the 'athiesm' is just a term for semantics, and agnostic literally means without evidence, which is what religion is. 

In my opinion there is no difference between a pure agnostic and a pure athiest, because neither of them believe in god, cos there's no evidence. Just an athiest thinks they're cooler and cleverer and that Richard Dawkin's poop don't stink. It's a bunch of word games. I'll stay an agnostic. A place I'm totally comfortable.


----------



## Staticnz

Like yes, the reason I dislike Richard Dawkins is almost solely on his characterization of agnostics as 'wishy washy' form of athiesm, that they're hedging their bets and might as well 'go the whole way', in the God Delusion. The chapter on agnostism is one of the most arbitrary, dumb things I've ever read.

And later Dawkins even admitted he was an agnostic and actually athiesm is just part of the agnosticism scale. Which goes to show, Dawkins touts athiesm because he wants to feel like a big man that's better than everyone else. He's so annoyingly elitist.

I far prefer Hitchens because despite his caustic style the guy is far more lucid and provocative.


----------



## Foh_Teej

Staticnz said:


> I am agnostic on the grounds that the 'athiesm' is just a term for semantics, and agnostic literally means without evidence, which is what religion is.
> 
> In my opinion there is no difference between a pure agnostic and a pure athiest, because neither of them believe in god, cos there's no evidence. Just an athiest thinks they're cooler and cleverer and that Richard Dawkin's poop don't stink. It's a bunch of word games. I'll stay an agnostic. A place I'm totally comfortable.


While you alluded to the notion that you understand the difference, you must realize atheism and agnosticism address different concepts and aren't mutually exclusive. It is also not a neutral postion between atheism and theism. Theism is the belief in god or gods--atheism is precisely not that. If you do not believe in a god(s) you are an atheist. Knowledge on the other hand, is a subset of belief. Some philosophical circles describe knowledge as a set within truth, belief, and justification. Under this definition of knowledge, one must believe something, possess a rational and reasonable justification for it, and it must infact be true. This definition -although quite comprehensive- has very subjective (perhaps even untenable) criteria in order to consider something actual knowledge. I can say I _know_ who my birth parents are because I believe to the highest attainable degree of certainty -justified by evidence to support the conviction- as true in accordance with the facts and essential reality. There is no apparent evidence to falsify this conclusion so it meets the standard to consider it knowledge. Not every notion fits so neatly into this definition however. A more practical and usable definition of _knowedge_ is: a degree of certainty in a belief, that if overtured, would alter your view of perception of reality. We _know _the sun will rise tomorrow on a precise schedule. We have observed the sun rising from the dawn of recorded history. If the sun didn't rise tomorrow, it would completely alter our perception of reality.

The reason why this distinction is important (and why I personally find all other modifiers except theism and atheism irrelevant) is the central premise of religion. The central theme and concept of religion is characterized by the _belief_ in some god or gods by definition. One can choose to identify or label however he or she wants for whatever reason. In some cases, it may be pertinent and appropriate to use those terms depending on the discussion. However, modifiers like agnosticism, do not address the fundamental premise of religion therefore obfuscating the main thesis (inadvertantly or intentionally) with extraneous information.


----------



## Staticnz

Well...yeah...you give a complex answer, but it underlines my basic beef with athiests pretty clearly.

Athiesm is simply a form of agnostism. Even Dawkins admits there is an 'agnostic' scale, and athiest is the one on the very end...absolutely no belief in god, and probably not open to the possibility (barring the rapture I suppose).

So when Dawkins dismisses agnosticism as a wish-washy athiesm, it's a load of garbage, that makes no logical sense, and betrays his desire to be superior to people instead of intellectually consistent. I firmly believe he uses the terms athiesm and agnostic to antagonize people. I thought scientists were supposed to be accurate.

So technically, I am an athiest. But I prefer to call myself an agnostic, because I've heard no logical argument that there's any inconsistency leaving it at that, nor any reason as to how it, as you say, 'obfuscates'.

What's unclear about 'without evidence'!?!? Sure people believe all kinds of stuff, but that's why we're all nuts.


----------



## Staticnz

Also why when Hitchens says, 'I'm an _anti-theist_'...I instantly think now that's a cool guy.


----------



## scarpia

username4me said:


> Why are you Atheist/Agnostic? What is your outlook on life, is it positive, cynical or meh? Benefits of being Atheist/Agnostic? (Sorry, if I am ignorant.) Thanks.


 I am a scientist. I believe in things than can be proven to exist by use of repeatable experiments. Benefits? I don't know if that is even a relavent question.


----------



## Foh_Teej

Staticnz said:


> Well...yeah...you give a complex answer, but it underlines my basic beef with athiests pretty clearly.
> 
> Athiesm is simply a form of agnostism. Even Dawkins admits there is an 'agnostic' scale, and athiest is the one on the very end...absolutely no belief in god, and probably not open to the possibility (barring the rapture I suppose).
> 
> So when Dawkins dismisses agnosticism as a wish-washy athiesm, it's a load of garbage, that makes no logical sense, and betrays his desire to be superior to people instead of intellectually consistent. I firmly believe he uses the terms athiesm and agnostic to antagonize people. I thought scientists were supposed to be accurate.
> 
> So technically, I am an athiest. But I prefer to call myself an agnostic, because I've heard no logical argument that there's any inconsistency leaving it at that, nor any reason as to how it, as you say, 'obfuscates'.
> 
> What's unclear about 'without evidence'!?!? Sure people believe all kinds of stuff, but that's why we're all nuts.


First off, I do not care about what Dawkins says. I don't base my worldviews on his opinions. I have no desire to argue nor defend any opinion Dawkins holds. If you disagree with Dawkins on a particular matter, that's for him to defend.

Second, atheism is not a form of agnosticism. Many identify as agnostic theists--including some on this very forum. What part of "these terms address different concepts and aren't mutually exclusive" did you miss? Atheism is simply the disbelief in a god or gods.....nothing more. It addresses a single position to a single claim. It does not address certainty, world view, hair color, origin of life, cosmology, types of music, fashion, ideology, sexuality, politics, favorite foods, the best reality TV show, or what type of babies one eats (if any). All of the modifying labels do not address the central proposition to the belief of a god or gods. I don't even find the term _atheist _necessary for the same reason I don't care to label people that do not ski. However, it serves a simple convenience in discussion to contrast that of theism. You are free to call yourself whatever you like for whatever reason you deem worthy but it does not change the fact they address different concepts. Agnosticism still isn't an independent position between atheism and theism no matter how one desires to distance him or herself from either position. It is used to simply qualify one's certainty one way or the other.


----------



## Foh_Teej

dp


----------



## Foh_Teej

dp


----------



## Staticnz

You seemed to triple post somehow...

Like I said, well your argument sounds good. But I fail to see how because there's such a thing as agnostic theism (which is pretty much just blind faith, and irrational), that somehow means atheism is not also a form of agnosticism.

Because an atheist has to have a reason for not believing in a god. I am aware atheist is more broad, but I think the term atheist breaks down if you detach if from agnosticism because then it is just a form of belief, which is my problem with it in the first place.

I understand...you can detach these terms, and people should. So maybe it's more my desire to see atheism actually have the intellectual backing and honesty to be a totally valid point of view, in which case I would bundle it under the umbrella of agnosticism. I think I did say earlier this whole argument is semantical.


----------



## Levibebop

I don't have a clue on whether there's any deities out there or not. I don't want to spend my entire life trying to figure it out. 

The people in my life are so contradicting in their values and beliefs. They don't follow their religion, while at the same time announcing love for it. I am regularly criticized by these people. I'm determined to become nothing like them, even if it means cutting ties in the future.

There's only one theory I can come up with to disprove everything - Religion was created thousands of years ago as a secret to promote peace and well-being for the future generations.


----------



## Foh_Teej

Staticnz said:


> Like I said, well your argument sounds good. But I fail to see how because there's such a thing as agnostic theism (which is pretty much just blind faith, and irrational), that somehow means atheism is not also a form of agnosticism.


An agnostic theist simply believes a god exists but the ultimate knowledge of a god is unknown or unknowable. I too agree that it is an irrational stance as a god that is inherently unknown or unknowable is completely irrelevant in any practical sense. EDIT: I actually misread your statement so I'll address it: Belief comes before knowledge. How the **** can a belief ever be a form of something that is derived after the fact? It sounds if if you are forcing your own interpretation of the words to mean what you need them to.



Staticnz said:


> Because an atheist has to have a reason for not believing in a god.


The rational justification is the burden of proof has not been met by the claimant. It is very similar to the prosecution not able to establish guilt in a court of law. The defence isn't required to _prove_ innocence. I don't believe unicorns exist by the same logic. I would imagine the vast majority of people do not believe all sorts of fanciful ideas by the same token.....including theists that do not believe in the gods of other religions.



Staticnz said:


> I am aware atheist is more broad, but I think the term atheist breaks down if you detach if from agnosticism because then it is just a form of belief, which is my problem with it in the first place.


I had no role in the etymology or semantics of the words. However, you are correct in that it addresses nothing but belief. If we had ultimate knowledge on the existence of god(whatever that means), there would be no need for discussion or debate. We would have people that accept the established facts and those people that are simply wrong.



Staticnz said:


> I understand...you can detach these terms, and people should. So maybe it's more my desire to see atheism actually have the intellectual backing and honesty to be a totally valid point of view, in which case I would bundle it under the umbrella of agnosticism. I think I did say earlier this whole argument is semantical.


All the intellectual backing it needs rests on the inability for theists to meet the burden of proof. Humans utilize rational thinking for the vast majority of of everyday truths. I don't see why religion has to be so convoluted to abandon reason, logic and rational justification used to discern fact from fiction people use in normal everyday life. I'm not sure how one would apply the term "honesty" to the position that theists have not sufficiently met the burden of proof. Theists hold a conviction to the notion a god exists....atheists do not share this conviction for whatever reason.


----------



## realitysucks

I realised the absolute farce religion was when I started to inquire about the state of the world. I quickly learned that a good plethora of suffering and hatred was due to religion's cruel doctrinal dogmas. I mean the sheer varieties of religion, beliefs is evidence to it being manufactured. 

I didn't want to willingly waste a single cent or calorie partaking in some ritual which has no evidence of giving divine favours unto me. The only "comfort" comes from having a) an imaginary dictator or b) an in-group. 

Read my sig.


----------



## Spring Moon

*Star Dust*



YoshiSAS said:


> I guess I'm just not as open-minded. In my mind, God is just as real as a Unicorn is, because both don't have evidence. I could say I believed in a flying spaghetti monster, and not listen to anybody else's opinion simply because they couldn't prove that one doesn't exist.
> 
> What is my outlook on life with no God? The universe has always been here, and it is constantly expanding. We are made with nothing but star dust (which is proved), and when we die we go back into our original form - just star dust floating throughout the universe.


Would that star dust have any awareness?


----------



## Georgije

I am an atheist because both my parents are atheists and religion is not an important part of life in my country. So there is no reason for me to start believing in some supernatural creature.

I guess i could call myself an agnostic because nobody can prove for certain that the universe hasn't been created by supernatural creatures, but nobody can prove that there is no teapot orbiting the sun half way between the Earth and Mars.

I must say that lately i have been pondering the meaning of life a bit too much and it would be much easier for me if i believed that there is a plan for me. I guess religion is a great cure for depression. Too bad that most religions require you to believe in sky wizards (and possibly to donate money to pedophiles). Maybe i'll take some time in the future to study Confucianism, since it seems to make more sense than the western concept of connecting morality with religion.


----------



## ugh1979

Foh_Teej said:


> Second, atheism is not a form of agnosticism. Many identify as agnostic theists--including some on this very forum. What part of "these terms address different concepts and aren't mutually exclusive" did you miss? Atheism is simply the disbelief in a god or gods.....nothing more. It addresses a single position to a single claim. It does not address certainty, world view, hair color, origin of life, cosmology, types of music, fashion, ideology, sexuality, politics, favorite foods, the best reality TV show, or what type of babies one eats (if any). All of the modifying labels do not address the central proposition to the belief of a god or gods. I don't even find the term _atheist _necessary for the same reason I don't care to label people that do not ski. However, it serves a simple convenience in discussion to contrast that of theism. You are free to call yourself whatever you like for whatever reason you deem worthy but it does not change the fact they address different concepts. Agnosticism still isn't an independent position between atheism and theism no matter how one desires to distance him or herself from either position. It is used to simply qualify one's certainty one way or the other.


Indeed. We need to keep repeating this message as it's not being understood by many.


----------



## ugh1979

Foh_Teej said:


> An agnostic theist simply believes a god exists but the ultimate knowledge of a god is unknown or unknowable. I too agree that it is an irrational stance as a god that is inherently unknown or unknowable is completely irrelevant in any practical sense. EDIT: I actually misread your statement so I'll address it: Belief comes before knowledge. How the **** can a belief ever be a form of something that is derived after the fact? It sounds if if you are forcing your own interpretation of the words to mean what you need them to.
> 
> The rational justification is the burden of proof has not been met by the claimant. It is very similar to the prosecution not able to establish guilt in a court of law. The defence isn't required to _prove_ innocence. I don't believe unicorns exist by the same logic. I would imagine the vast majority of people do not believe all sorts of fanciful ideas by the same token.....including theists that do not believe in the gods of other religions.
> 
> I had no role in the etymology or semantics of the words. However, you are correct in that it addresses nothing but belief. If we had ultimate knowledge on the existence of god(whatever that means), there would be no need for discussion or debate. We would have people that accept the established facts and those people that are simply wrong.
> 
> All the intellectual backing it needs rests on the inability for theists to meet the burden of proof. Humans utilize rational thinking for the vast majority of of everyday truths. I don't see why religion has to be so convoluted to abandon reason, logic and rational justification used to discern fact from fiction people use in normal everyday life. I'm not sure how one would apply the term "honesty" to the position that theists have not sufficiently met the burden of proof. Theists hold a conviction to the notion a god exists....atheists do not share this conviction for whatever reason.


Well said.


----------



## ugh1979

Spring Moon said:


> Would that star dust have any awareness?


Does the dust in your house (made up mainly of your shedded skin flakes) have any awareness?


----------



## kingspenser

ahh there are a lot of posts on this already, but I think that for me, i don't see this question as "why don't you believe in god," but rather--"SINCE you don't believe in a god, what is life like?"
for me, i live every day like my last--since i do not believe in an afterlife, i believe that makes me far more empathetic, since it's really everyone's first and last trip around. i think that may make me bitter towards people who waste that life, but for the most part i feel empathy for them.


----------



## Ben Williams

where to begin? I could rant on and on about why but a big reason is like this, you wouldn't believe the ideas on medicine, biology, (maybe some maths stuff cos they were alright), or any other 'fact' made by someone living thousands of years ago they just weren't that knowledgeable and had a basic understanding of the world around them. If you would not take advice on things like that from them from them, why believe them on the far more important topic like where we come from, why we're here etc. Not a good topic to be taking advice about from such uneducated and simple people


----------



## markwalters2

My outlook on life is all about pro-creation


----------



## mud

Belief is irrelavent, something is either real or it is not and all real things produce evidence. Religion is a relic from the time before we figured out science.


----------



## dismiss

# 1 reason for me... The inability to see myself as nothing more than a cow, put here to be a baby factory.


----------



## pitifultunic

Well putting aside the fact that if 'god controls all' why is there such evil in the world. I wouldn't want to follow a religion that makes you obey them out of fear of going to hell.


----------



## aabbccdd44332211

I grew up Christian. But I started becoming atheistic around the age of 13. I realized that the Bible was written by humans and humans are imperfect. Furthermore, if I were born in India, the Middle East, Asia, or anywhere else it would change which religious belief I held. Without culture I would have no reason to believe in a deity. It started to seem like a mass delusion. People usually hit some sort of existential despair point and turn toward religion to ensure themselves that their life isn't meaningless. But I have found that accepting the ultimate meaningless-ness of life helps give it meaning. I want to make my life count, not sit here and wait for an afterlife.

Then the existential philosophy helped further my beliefs. As well as psychoactive drugs (particularly LSD and dissociatives such as MXE), which helped me view things from a different perspective.


----------



## Sean McL

God is just an idea that so far has no evidence to back it up. A lot of proven things were hypothesized at one point so if any proof/evidence for a creator pops up I'll be sure to check it out.

Until then I'll stay open-minded.


----------



## slytherin

I'm agnostic because I won't pretend to know if there is or isn't a God. There are so many different conceptions of the idea and all of them are pretty equally plausible/implausible to me. I want to keep an open mind and not limit myself to one definition of spirituality.


----------



## Phalene

Because I haven't yet seen wars started by atheists...

I never understood why religion wars could happen. For me, it was always inconsistent with the concept itself of religion.

Plus, I saw Catholic classmates who binge drink and have sex whenever they like tell gay people they should die in hell cause the Bible says so and I am like, so handy to pick and choose whatever feels convenient to you...

And I also never felt the presence of God. I mean, I don't rule out the idea completely but it's just not something I could believe in. I read the Bible and the Torah and the Quran and I never felt anything special about that.


----------



## PaxBritannica

You've never seen a war started by atheists? Take your sunglasses off, you might


----------



## Phalene

Would you care to elaborate...?


----------



## markwalters2

Phalene said:


> Would you care to elaborate...?


Hitler started a war because he is a non-stamp collector.


----------



## Foh_Teej

markwalters2 said:


> Hitler started a war because he is a non-stamp collector.


What? I always thought Hitler had it out for the Jews because he didn't ski or play golf much.


----------



## mezzoforte

I find it hard to believe in something that has no real proof. (For example, the Christian God)


----------



## wordscancutyoulikeglass

As an agnostic, I don't have to wake up before noon on Sunday mornings.


----------



## soupbasket

I do not believe in the existence of a god(s). There wasn't a tragic event or anything of that sort that led me to "become" an atheist. There is simply no evidence proving that a god exists. Therefore, I am an atheist. However, if I was presented real evidence of the existence of a god, I am not going to reject it.

I do not think my lack of religious beliefs bares a negative impact on my outlook on life. In fact, it allows me to appreciate my existence even more knowing that this is solely a 'one time shot.'


----------



## taneisa

i grew up baptist. Christianity was my life. my first detention in school was because i was preaching of hell to the other kids who needed my spiritual guidance. "hell" is a bad word where i come from. my father was a preacher and so was his father. there was always a lot of abuse in my home. my father was sexually abusing me. when i would tell him about my nightmares which were becoming more and more frequent as the abuse went on he would say that is GOD telling me that i was doing wrong. i was 7yrs old. i continued to believe in god until i was 17. one day i woke up and realized that it was just a ridiculous idea and that i didn't need it to be happy. after that day i started to realize that life means nothing and that it is a complete accident that we are here. that was amazing to me. i finally let go the weight of the world and i could breath. science had comforted me through this transition and i am so thankful.


----------



## Gorefiend

I'm just very skeptical of nature. I'm not even sure I trust my own skepticism, so maybe I am more an agnostic than an atheist. But I consider myself an atheist, because I feel that death is just that, and there's nothing to prove otherwise. There's no evidence to contradict me, as of now, and I tend to have a pessimistic outlook. I wish there was a God, I wish life had a purpose, I wish I had a divine father taking care of me, I wish I had a path to follow etc. But I still can't make myself feel like it's correct.

I do believe in the law system and respect for others, though. I'm not highly driven by ethics or human rights, but I just believe that I should let people be what they are - and I hope they can let me be as well.. I respect them as equal worthy as myself, and equal to the ones I view the highest. But I do not love every human, I do not feel that it is my duty to help others in need. I don't see this as wrong or even bad, it just is what it is.. Some people are helpful and kind, that doesn't mean I should try to live up to those standards. I feel I do my duties as a citizen of this world by not harming others and giving them respect and understanding. But that's that.
I point this out because people very often consider me a bad person due to my lack of fascination for humanity and their rights. It's not that it's not a good thing that there are organizations and law systems protecting the rights of the few (as well as the many), it's just that it's not my thing.


----------



## Lelii046

Don't really have a story of why. I just never really had any interest in religion. I believed when I was younger but it was only because I was scared something bad would happen if I didn't But as I grew older I began to realize that I not only had no interest in religion and was forcing it upon myself because of fear, but that there are so many Atheists, and nothing bad happens to them. I also of course find it impossible to believe in something that has given no proof to exist.


----------

