# Which type of girl is worse?



## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

In one of my more recent threads somebody mentioned that people generally would rather date healthy person of a different race than sickly person of their own race. At the time of that thread, I was single, so I more or less brushed it off. But as of now I am, in fact, dating a "sickly woman of my own race" (she is infertile, her infertility is due to combination of PCOS with something else so apparently its worse than just PCOS from what she said, also she has asthma, she has pacemaker on her stomach, and the list goes on) this relationship started less than two weeks ago but it went pretty fast so breaking up at this point would break her heart.

Now, a week ago I took her to a bible study, where there is a "heathy woman of a different race" who is single -- in particular, she is native American. Yesterday she told me that someone was setting her up on a blind date, so apparently she is single and looking, and not just single. I noticed she acted towards me more friendly than anyone else in Bible study group, although that in itself isnt' much: all I noticed is that she woudl give me a hug when we say goodbye unlike most people. I did notice, however, that yesterday night when she was taking me back home in a car she asked me how is my relationship with that sickly woman goes (whom I took to the Bible study a week ago but not yesterday since yesterfay she had a flu) and when I admitted to her that I was just settling on her because nobody likes me, she was saying "don't say that" and was trying to talk me out of thinking so negatively and trying to persuade me to focus on God more, she was almost crying and at some point put her arm on the seat I was sitting on. So I am kinda wondering whether she likes me or not. I didn't have guts to ask because like I said she is native American and dating the other race is something I always considered off limits. But then again, wouldn't dating someone sickly of my own race be off limits too?

Which brings me to what I am trying to ask in this thread. *Now, I am not trying to start this whole race debate, I am trying to ask something totally different: what would older people, such as my parents, think?* Whether you think racism is right or wrong, the fact is that when young generation dates another race, the older generation -- namely their parents -- take it really badly. Whether thats right or wrong, thats a fact. Now, another fact is that, back in 2007--2009 my parents didn't like me dating "sickly girl of my own race" either, in fact they had lots of fits about it throughout duration of a relationship. Although that had race component too: I am Jewish and that girl wasn't (by Jewish I mean genetics rather than religion). But then again none of the girls I was dating so far were Jewish and I am not intenting to change it. I am asking whether or not dating someone non-white would be a much bigger shock than simply dating non-jew who is still White. And then compare it to dating someone sickly. So whom would *my mom* be more shocked by: sickly woman who is White (although still non-jewish) or that Native American who is healthy (I am not mentioning my dad since he died few years ago)?

P.S. I am not saying the native girl is even an option. First of all since I was always ostracized I can't distinguish friendly with flirting so more than likely she was just being friendly with me and didn't think of me that way to begin with (but I don't know for sure which is why I am puzzled). And, apart from that, even if she did like me in that way, she probably changed her mind due to my bringing the sickly girl over and/or having that converstion with her in the car. But I still want to know whether there is anything I missed out on that I should regret thats why I am asking this question.


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## MadnessVertigo (Sep 26, 2016)

LOL you are really like a verbose [Permabanned Member]. We don't ****ing know what your Mom thinks.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

MadnessVertigo said:


> LOL you are really like a verbose [Permabanned Member]. We don't ****ing know what your Mom thinks.


[Permabanned Member] was lower functioning and I think had a learning disability on top of issues from abuse. Causalset is just a stereotypical high functioning autistic. I think he even has a Phd but completly clueless on social issues and does a lot of autistic things like monologue without realising people don't care to read it and asking endless follow up questions about things. I know someone who acts similarly but without as long monologues, and less racist. They're also very intelligent, studying a STEM subject, and other similarities I've curiousely noted from Causalsets past posts that I won't go into here.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

MadnessVertigo said:


> LOL you are really like a verbose [Permabanned Member]. We don't ****ing know what your Mom thinks.


I guess I really mean the majority of people in my mom's generation.


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## MadnessVertigo (Sep 26, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> [Permabanned Member] was lower functioning and I think had a learning disability on top of issues frim abuse. Causalset is just a stereotypical high functioning autist. I think he even had a Phd.


Wow a Phd really? Didn't realize [Permabanned Member] was abused... thought he just had a really weird sense of humor. Guess I shouldn't be so quick to laugh at people, but geez "sickly girl of my own race" to describe his current girlfriend lol.


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## MadnessVertigo (Sep 26, 2016)

causalset said:


> I guess I really mean the majority of people in my mom's generation.


I wouldn't know... my parents are around your Mom's age, from different races and cultures. They wouldn't care what my girlfriend's race was or if she was "sickly". Your question is going to be particular to your own culture and parent.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

MadnessVertigo said:


> I wouldn't know... my parents are around your Mom's age, from different races and cultures. They wouldn't care what my girlfriend's race was or if she was "sickly". Your question is going to be particular to your own culture and parent.


My parents are Jewish immigrants from Russia.


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## JohnB (Oct 14, 2015)

Dude, how old are you? Just wondering but you need to be more worried about your happiness, than your parents. That said what area are you from? Other than having some health issues what qualities does the sickly girl have? Are you all of similar age?


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## CloudChaser (Nov 7, 2013)

If a sickly white person has liver disease they may end up being able to pass as asian. 

Just a thought.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Sorry guys, that was my fault.



truant said:


> Most people are obviously going to prefer sleeping with an attractive, healthy member of a different race over an unattractive, sickly member of their own race.


My parents wouldn't care at all, @causalset , and they're in their 70s. I dated a Sinti girl for 5 years, one of my best friends was black, and I have biracial nephews. I've never heard my parents talk about race. Seems like racism is actually more common in young people now than older people.

You should be focusing on what makes you happy, not what makes other people happy.


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## The Library of Emma (Mar 3, 2016)

My parents are in their late sixties, early seventies, respectively. While I would say my parents are very accepting on the whole, I am aware my father worked for an Irish employer and harbors some unearned grievances against the Irish because of it. That said, I would still date an Irish man, and I believe my father could be won over. As an adult, where your own opinions lie ought to be taking priority. I dislike the open-ended "think what you want about racism" tone in this thread. You insist this poll is to gain some insight on your mother's perspective, but your post itself is steeped in "you are your race" thinking.



> ...sickly woman who is White (although still non-jewish) or that Native American who is healthy...?


Who are these women as individuals? What do you like about them? Dislike about them? Their backgrounds and genes are a part of them, yes, but it does little to illustrate who they are as people beyond some vague stereotype.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

My parents would prefer I date unhealthy white girl then healthy girl of a different race.

Actually, come to think of it, at this point my parents would just be happy if I dated at all.


MadnessVertigo said:


> LOL you are really like a verbose [Permabanned Member]. We don't ****ing know what your Mom thinks.


Whatever happened to [Permabanned Member]


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## a degree of freedom (Sep 28, 2011)

I really just can't take this seriously. I don't think any of this is of the least consequence. People are too different one from the next. The people who are compatible with us just isn't related to these things, and compensating for the perceived biases of others is a compromising endeavor.


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## MadnessVertigo (Sep 26, 2016)

wmu'14 said:


> Whatever happened to [Permabanned Member]


Got permabanned, I don't know what for. Wasn't on the forum at the time.


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## NovaBubble (Oct 30, 2017)

You're asking us to compare two individuals we don't know much about aside from a couple interactions they had with you, their race, and their health. That's not really a lot to work with... We aren't your mom either... so how can we help know her perspective either? Your mother should be happy for you regardless of who you are in a relationship with, as long as you both are happy and can see a future together.

I think the question you really should ask yourself is who are you really in love with? Because if you really love one of these women, it wouldn't matter what their health was like or their race... all that matters is that you love them and the potential opinion your mother or another individual has wouldn't be able to change that.


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## a degree of freedom (Sep 28, 2011)

wmu'14 said:


> Whatever happened to [that guy]


He fought the law the law won.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

senkora said:


> He fought the law the law won.


Yikes. Sad to hear that.

The law usually always wins tho
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Tbh, I don't think my mom is into black, white, or Native women. Even the healthy ones. But I could be wrong.


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## discoveryother (Sep 18, 2016)

a lot of the possible options are missing... there should be 6 options as long as the categories remain constant (native healthy, black healthy, white sickly).

also, native changes depending on location. here native is maori people. we don't have many black people at all. what about the other categories - unhealthy native people, unhealthy black people, healthy white people. and what about asian people? there are a lot of asian people in the world. and brown people. and what if the person is white but they have a different ethnicity to your mother?

and what kind of food does your mother like? does she like spicy food? where does she stand politically? does she enjoy little cakes? does she drink tea? does she like tattoos? does she like to watch dances? or would she prefer to read a book? what languages does she speak? does she have any racial sexual preferences herself? does she have any kind of fetishes? what size are her feet?


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

will your mom date her? no? then who cares. you're an adult man. do what you want.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Okay, to answer @NovaBubble @Girl Without a Shadow and others, let me give you a little more description about those women. So I am 37 year old, the "white sickly" one is 34 and the "native healthy" one is 24.

I am originally from Russia. I came to America when I was 14 and I came because of my moms job. I did my BA at UC Berkeley, which is where my mom lives, I did my masters in Minnesota and I did PH.D in Michigan. After that I went to India where I spent 5 years doing postdocs and then returned back to the US. After coming back to the US I started second pH.d. in Mississippi but after a year transferred to New Mexico which is where I am currently at. My first pH.d. was in physics my second pH.d. is in math.

As far as those two girls go, the "healthy native" one is doing her bachelor in something that sounds like premed, although I am not too sure. She did tell me though that her eventual goal is to work I'm pediatrics. As far as "white sickly" one goes she got her bachelor in elementary education but she doesn't teach due to her health problems. Instead she is just making stuff (probably knitting) and sells it. I felt bad for her that she is wasting her life like that so I persuaded her to at least consider going to graduate school next year. I have no idea if she will back out of it or not but it looks pretty promising considering that we knew each other for only two weeks. On a negative side, I can't seem to convince her to study math or science. She insists she would never be good at it and I keep telling her its not her lack of talent but rather lack of exposure so why not try. I finally got her to agree to try to make a first step of me trying to tech algebra to her although she gave me precondition that she wants me to back off if she finds it too difficult. I am guessing with "healthy native" girl at least I can assume she knows math and science better whan "white sickly" one since she is doing premed, although again I don't think that highly of pediatrics either. Quite frankly I wish I were to date either mathematician or a scientist, but I guess that's a lot to ask so I am okay when it comes to settling for less. But with the "white sickly" girl when she stays at home -- with her mom -- and has no job other then knitting and her entire reason for this along with all other aspects of her life is that she is sick -- it is just too much staring me in the face to overlook.

From faith point of view, i am Messianic (meaning I am Jew who believes in Jesus but still follow Jewish traditions), although I am not telling it to my mom; I suspect she suspects it but I don't know as we never talk about the subject. The "white sickly" girl has a mix of Mormon and catholic background although it doesn't sound that she takes her faith too seriously, the "healthy native" girl is seventh day adventist. As far as my mom goes the only part she would care about is that neither of those two faiths ate Jewish, I mean she haven't asked about religions of my first two ex's other than the fact that they weren't Jewish; with my third ex it was very obvious she was devoted christian but it didn't affect my mom other than --again -- she wasn't Jewish.

However on my end I very much do have a preference in favor of seventh day adventism. That's because, like I said, I am messianic but, unlike other messisnics, I am fascinated with Saturday going Christians in general, and there are fee different sects that do it, adventists are one of them. Now I know it would sound pretty weird but I am fascinated with sects in general so Mormon would also be a good thing, but unfortunately Mormons go to church on Sunday so that's not the particular brand of sects I am fascinated with. Plus, like I said, that girl isn't really a Mormon anyway. Her background is half Mormon half catholic, and she herself appears quite secular to me. I guess she doesn't consider herself secular, I mean in her dating profile she listed Jesus as one of the things she can't live without, but when I bring up religious things in person she doesn't seem to care. Like for example when I brought up a concern about one of her cats having microchip implant she said she doesn't believe microchip is the mark of the beast, and when I asked her does she believe in the book of revelation she said she wasnt sure. Now, adventists don't think microchip is the mark either but that's because they think going to church on Sunday is the mark and have elaborate arguments to that effect. Now, I don't agree with them, but to me it doesn't matter that much whether or not we agree, what really matters is that they studied the bible and thought about it a lot. They would never say they don't believe in the book of revelation. On the contrary they take it super seriously they just interpret it differently. So when that mormon-catholic girl (the one that's sickly white) told me she doesn't believe in revelation I didn't like it at all.

But then again its not a deal breaker either. I don't think my first ex believe in revelation but I was fine agreeing to disagree. In fact a certain girl whom I been obsessed for a decade was an atheist but I always regarded her as a top choice because she was a sister of a senator, math graduate student and German. Unfortunately she rejected me due to the fact that my mom shelters me which is why I ended up obsessing with her. But the point I am trying to make is that I can overlook atheism when there ate other things that I like. I can't overlook someone being a pagan though. And by pagan I don't mean Mormon, like I said I like christian sects. Rather I mean the type of pagan who doesn't claim to be christian. Like wiccan would be absolute deal breaker for me, but Mormon or atheist are both fine.

My only experience dating non white girl was a year ago when I went on just one date with her and then was so ashamed to be seen with her that I never dated her again and also had a couple of weeks of sleepless nights over what did people on campus thought who saw me with her (thankfully not my mom: my mom lives in a different state). From this point of view the white sickly one is better since her disability is invisible. On the contrary I am actively trying to take her places where people would see me with her since I believe it would alleviate my social problem. But then again part of the problem with the nonwhite girl I went on that date with a year ago is her whole mannerisms looked like someone from the street. On the other hand the native girl I am talking about now acts intelligent. Plus I don't have to declare to people we were dating even if we did. I am perfectly fine being friends with people of color its the dating that I am uncomfortable with. And I guess the non white girl a year ago made it obvious by the PDA thing. I did lots of PDA with white sickly girl too but that's okay since nobody knows she is sickly.

But in both girls I have long term concerns. Namely, I would like to eventually marry, and I don't feel comfortable marrying wither one of them due to the hangups I talked about. But I am not in a hurry to marry either; yet planning to break someone's heart on the future, however distant, just makes me feel awful.


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## MadnessVertigo (Sep 26, 2016)

causalset said:


> My only experience dating non white girl was a year ago when I went on just one date with her and then was so ashamed to be seen with her that I never fated her again and also had a couple of weeks of sleepless nights over what did people on campus thought who saw me with her (thankfully not my mom: my mom lives in a different state). From this point of view the white sickly one is better since her disability is invisible. On the contrary I am actively trying to take her places where people would see me with her since I believe it would alleviate my social problem. But then again part of the problem with the nonwhite girl I went on that date with a year ago is her whole mannerisms looked like someone from the street. On the other hand the native girl I am talking about now acts intelligent. Plus I don't have to declare to people we were saying even if we did.


Not being white is a "disability"? It honestly sounds like you are picking what dog you want to buy.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

what a ****ing sigh 

they keep coming and coming and etc


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

MadnessVertigo said:


> Not being white is a "disability"? It honestly sounds like you are picking what dog you want to buy.


 No a race is obviously not a disability. What I mean was visible vs invisible. Race is visible while disability isn't. When I write long posts sometimes I am not very careful on how I phrase things since it takes a long time to write those paragraphs as is.


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## discoveryother (Sep 18, 2016)

well shnookums, as your mother, i don't want to see you dating any of these "hoes". i want you to be solely devoted to me, your poor dear mother - who has sacrificed so much for you. whenever i think of you out with these ladies of the night, i cry. its distressing for me to see my favourite son wasting his time with these discredited women, who he doesn't even intend to marry. if he wont join with them under the holy eyes of god, then how can he expect me, who has loved him and cared for him all these years, to ascent to being with either of them? wont you please think of your poor old mother? all i want is for you to be happy.


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## Gloaming (Aug 1, 2017)

Honestly, with the way you're talking about these women, I don't think you should date either.

But to answer your question, a) based on the views you've expressed, I'm going to guess your mother is also racist and would prefer you date a white woman and b) it doesn't actually matter what your mom thinks since this _isn't her relationship_. You're an adult and you're the one who would be dating this woman.


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## Johnny Mac (Oct 31, 2017)

Just date the black chick.


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## thomasjune (Apr 7, 2012)

Who is worse than who/what?
Can't wait to find out who you and your mom choose to marry. Lucky girl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Johnny Mac said:


> Just date the black chick.


Few points of clarification:

1. She isn't black she is native. The only reason I also have black in the poll is to basically put her on a scale against "the ultimate non white"

2. I have no idea whether the native one actually likes me in this way or not. So that's one of the other things I am asking you to make a guess: does she? I do, in fact know that the "sickly white" one likes me, as evident from the fact that we are already dating. But with the native one I am not sure.

3. Even if the native one did like me, what to do with the fact that these couple of weeks I been dating the sickly white one went really fast so she would feel heart broken. For example, we been saying to each other affectionate things and were snuggling in bed for hours (although didn't have sex) and I got her to agree to move the things I been cluttering into her storage in order to make my dorm room clean (we haven't moved them yet but we plan to this Tuesday). So breaking up with her after all that would be really hurtful for her.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

causalset said:


> Like for example when I brought up a concern about one of her cats having microchip implant she said she doesn't believe microchip is the mark of the beast


Case closed. Drop this secret atheist and get yourself the native girl who clearly has a high opinion of you since she didn't like you insulting your girlfriend to her.

But, to your poll, I must inform you that not all old people are racists. In fact most of them _aren't_ racist (though a majority of them may be a bit homophobic and sexist).


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## Johnny Mac (Oct 31, 2017)

Just date the native chick.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Paul said:


> Case closed. Drop this secret atheist and get yourself the native girl *who clearly has a high opinion of you since she didn't like you insulting your girlfriend to her.*


That might be a side question that applies to my learning social skills in general rather than this specific situation. So why are you saying that when someone doesn't like when I talk badly about my girlfriend it means that they have high opinion of me? I guess in this specific situation I could tell that she did (whether its real opinion or pretend opinion is a different question) but that wasnt because of this specific "sign" but rather just general vibes i received. But you are telling me to actually use this particular detail as a sign. Can you elaborate why?


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## roxslide (Apr 12, 2011)

I saw this thread this morning and I'm surprised people are taking it seriously and giving thoughtful and measured responses, they are much more generous than I am......


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

roxslide said:


> I saw this thread this morning and I'm surprised people are taking it seriously and giving thoughtful and measured responses, they are much more generous than I am......


Unlike half of my other threads, this isn't 101-st "why nobody likes me" thread yet you ****en think I don't deserve a response (and deserve a special warning against others responding) *ALL* because you saw my ****en user name. So what the **** am I supposed to do? I can't ****en chamge my past but when I am trying to do something different in future people *like you* don't let me. Alright, you want to know why I whine? Fine, its because of people *like you* in the face to face world. When people made up their mind and warm everyone else against having anything to do with me *like you just did* what else do you expect me to do?!


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## AvoidantGuy (Oct 1, 2017)

I think I became dumber by reading this post. Who gives a **** what your mom thinks, date the girl you like, not the one she approves of.


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## roxslide (Apr 12, 2011)

causalset said:


> Unlike half of my other threads, this isn't 101-st "why nobody likes me" thread yet you ****en think I don't deserve a response (and deserve a special warning against others responding) *ALL* because you saw my ****en user name. So what the **** am I supposed to do? I can't ****en chamge my past but when I am trying to do something different in future people *like you* don't let me. Alright, you want to know why I whine? Fine, its because of people *like you* in the face to face world. When people made up their mind and warm everyone else against having anything to do with me *like you just did* what else do you expect me to do?!


??? That wasn't a warning or a judgement based on your username/past... whining? it was a commentary on the content of this post. You have to realize your language in this post in the context of race, gender and descriptions of women in your life is pretty degrading to them. Anyway, you do you bro. I'm not stopping you. I have no inclination to and also legitimately have no power over you. It seems like you're trying to "whine" less which is an improvement (that I didn't ask for btw), kudos but that still doesn't mean your current words are irreproachable and pristine.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

roxslide said:


> causalset said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike half of my other threads, this isn't 101-st "why nobody likes me" thread yet you ****en think I don't deserve a response (and deserve a special warning against others responding) *ALL* because you saw my ****en user name. So what the **** am I supposed to do? I can't ****en chamge my past but when I am trying to do something different in future people *like you* don't let me. Alright, you want to know why I whine? Fine, its because of people *like you* in the face to face world. When people made up their mind and warm everyone else against having anything to do with me *like you just did* what else do you expect me to do?!
> ...


If you read the bolded part of my original post you will realize that i went out of my way to make it not about race/disability but about peoples opinions on those topics. I do realize this can come across as controversial regardless, but society's standards are catch 22: its wrong to date blacks and its also wrong to verbally acknowledge that you won't date them. I guess for people with good social skills and lots of options its easy: if they have 7 white options they don't have to remind everyone else about the other 3 black ones unless they specifically want a fight or something. But in my case when a couple of "unspoken" options is all I have then what am I supposed to do? Same goes for whining. I won't be doing most of what I am doing if I didn't feel like my situation drives me up the wall.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

doe deer said:


> will your mom date her? no? then who cares. you're an adult man. do what you want.


No kidding! opcorn


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> doe deer said:
> 
> 
> > will your mom date her? no? then who cares. you're an adult man. do what you want.
> ...


Obviously, I already know that from the legal perspective I am allowed to do what I want (provided both girls are interested of course). But that wasn't what I was asking was it. If the only thing anyone was concerned about was their legal standing, why do we even need this board? None of us is in jail so we should all be happy, right? So apparently we do have emotional needs beyond simply staying out of legal trouble, which makes it perfectly valid for me to bring mine.


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## Steve French (Sep 17, 2012)

I like all the redacted in this thread. You limp wristed pussies.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Obviously, I already know that from the legal perspective I am allowed to do what I want (provided both girls are interested of course). But that wasn't what I was asking was it. If the only thing anyone was concerned about was their legal standing, why do we even need this board? None of us is in jail so we should all be happy, right? So apparently we do have emotional needs beyond simply staying out of legal trouble, which makes it perfectly valid for me to bring mine.


i'm not even talking about whether it's legal. i'm talking about the fact that you're a grown man and i don't understand the issue. is it a problem if your mother doesn't like your girlfriend? will it have a severe effect on your life?


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Your mama so white, she made a boy that doesnt know he's asking racist questions.


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## alienbird (Apr 9, 2010)

Um... 

I don't even.... This is real?


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> i'm not even talking about whether it's legal. i'm talking about the fact that you're a grown man and i don't understand the issue. is it a problem if your mother doesn't like your girlfriend? will it have a severe effect on your life?


Okay, my mom won't disown me, nor would she do anything else of that nature. However she might have lots of fights with me, and by "lots of fights" I really mean LOTS -- like with a different "sickly White" girl whom I dated in 2007--2009, we were fighting for FOUR MONTHS starting from August onword as to whether or not I should join her for Christmas, and she was calling her "histeric woman" who was supposedly going to force me to marry her and/or trick me into her bed to make kids, make me get a job as a janiotor instead of physicist, etc. Also each time she knew of plans I had with the girl she was setting plans with her and my family that would be in conflict and then say things to make me feel bad if I make a "wrong" choic.

But nope she didn't disown me nor was she planning to. Interestingly enough, that girl back in 2007--2009 at one point said "if you mom disowns you, I will take care of you" but I was like "what are you even talking about, its not going to happen". I mean her problem is that she cares about me too much not too little. So she won't think I would be able to "handle" being disowned if she doesn't think I can "handle" lots of other things, and to her the whole world revolves around me. So I guess you "could" say that I can simply ignore everything she says since i know she isnt going to disown me anyway and who cares what she thinks or says. But as you see the things she can say are pretty hard to ignore.

I guess maybe I have different perspective on this than most people. I mean, if you can somehow "train" to ignore the things people "say" that have no physical impact on you, then you might as well ignore other things that have no physical impact -- such as the fact that you are single and lonely -- but then why even need a relationship on the first place? If the whole point of the relationship is to make me emotionally happy, then woudn't that goal be destroyed by the fact that my mom's opinion of said relationship is so low? At least thats my perspective.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Okay, my mom won't disown me, nor would she do anything else of that nature. However she might have lots of fights with me, and by "lots of fights" I really mean LOTS -- like with a different "sickly White" girl whom I dated in 2007--2009, we were fighting for FOUR MONTHS starting from August onword as to whether or not I should join her for Christmas, and she was calling her "histeric woman" who was supposedly going to force me to marry her and/or trick me into her bed to make kids, make me get a job as a janiotor instead of physicist, etc. Also each time she knew of plans I had with the girl she was setting plans with her and my family that would be in conflict and then say things to make me feel bad if I make a "wrong" choic.
> 
> But nope she didn't disown me nor was she planning to. Interestingly enough, that girl back in 2007--2009 at one point said "if you mom disowns you, I will take care of you" but I was like "what are you even talking about, its not going to happen". I mean her problem is that she cares about me too much not too little. So she won't think I would be able to "handle" being disowned if she doesn't think I can "handle" lots of other things, and to her the whole world revolves around me. So I guess you "could" say that I can simply ignore everything she says since i know she isnt going to disown me anyway and who cares what she thinks or says. But as you see the things she can say are pretty hard to ignore.
> 
> I guess maybe I have different perspective on this than most people. I mean, if you can somehow "train" to ignore the things people "say" that have no physical impact on you, then you might as well ignore other things that have no physical impact -- such as the fact that you are single and lonely -- but then why even need a relationship on the first place? If the whole point of the relationship is to make me emotionally happy, then woudn't that goal be destroyed by the fact that my mom's opinion of said relationship is so low? At least thats my perspective.


don't be upset. i understand what you're trying to say. i know these things are hard to ignore but i'm straightforward and opinionated. if my parents had such serious problem with my relationship, i have 2 options for them: either tolerate it or leave me alone. i wouldn't mind my parents giving me advice but your mother is taking it too far, it's not healthy behaviour and if she doesn't plan on changing you'll have to choose between your mom and your private life. it's up to you.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> don't be upset. i understand what you're trying to say. i know these things are hard to ignore but i'm straightforward and opinionated. if my parents had such serious problem with my relationship, i have 2 options for them: either tolerate it or leave me alone. i wouldn't mind my parents giving me advice but your mother is taking it too far, it's not healthy behaviour and if she doesn't plan on changing you'll have to choose between your mom and your private life. it's up to you.


I guess making a "deal" with my mom asking her not to "say" things doesn't make logical sense to me, since she would still be thinking those things whehter she says them or not, and what she thinks is the most important. Also, I *do* have some control over what my mom thinks: namely I could just refrain from dating the girls she doesn't like and then I won't have to face this problem. When you are telling me I should date someone who makes me happy, then let me point out that other people's (including my mom's) opinion of me is big part of being happy. So it makes no sense when people are asking me to define my happiness by leaving out a big part that contributes to it. It would ultimately makes me less happy which is pretty ironic to try to force myself to be less happy in the name of being happy.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> I guess making a "deal" with my mom asking her not to "say" things doesn't make logical sense to me, since she would still be thinking those things whehter she says them or not, and *what she thinks is the most important.* Also, I *do* have some control over what my mom thinks: namely I could just refrain from dating the girls she doesn't like and then I won't have to face this problem. When you are telling me I should date someone who makes me happy, then let me point out that other people's (including my mom's) opinion of me is big part of being happy. So it makes no sense when people are asking me to define my happiness by leaving out a big part that contributes to it. It would ultimately makes me less happy which is pretty ironic to try to force myself to be less happy in the name of being happy.


well there's your problem. if your mother's opinion is so important then you have a solution, find someone your mom likes and date them.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> well there's your problem. if your mother's opinion is so important then you have a solution, find someone your mom likes and date them.


Yeah, but due to Asperger most women don't like me. Case in point: my last ex broke up with me three years ago, and I didn't have any dating options -- zero -- up until now. And I was desperately looking, on dating sites and so forth. Thats why the moment I have some sort of a chance I want to settle, but then of course there are all those other concerns about my mom and so forth.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Yeah, but due to Asperger most women don't like me. Case in point: my last ex broke up with me three years ago, and I didn't have any dating options -- zero -- up until now. And I was desperately looking, on dating sites and so forth. Thats why the moment I have some sort of a chance I want to settle, but then of course there are all those other concerns about my mom and so forth.


 i hope things get better for you. try to date someone and take things slowly without thinking about immediately settling with them. that way your mom would also have more time to make up her mind. i know it's easier said than done. unfortunately, i have no other advice.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> i hope things get better for you. try to date someone and take things slowly without thinking about immediately settling with them. that way your mom would also have more time to make up her mind. i know it's easier said than done. unfortunately, i have no other advice.


Yeah I thought about taking it slow thing too. Big part of my problem is that I don't have friends altogether and don't know how to make them. If I had a circle of friends, I might have higher chances getting a date, plus the date would have been more likely compatible with me. I guess there is *one* exception to the statement that I can't make friends: namely I made friends at the bible studies (which is where I met that native girl). But then I felt a bit inferior when most people in that bible study were in a relationsihp and I wasn't. I guess that girl is also single but she is a lot younger than me.

So it feels a bit circular: I feel like I have to be with someone in order to feel like an equal with my friends, and yet I need to have friends in order to be with the type of girl thats compatible. Which then makes me think of a "solution": namely, date someone I am not very comaptible with -- such as "white sickly girl" I am dating now -- use it to make friends, and then switch to dating one of the friends? But then again, I don't want to break the girl's heart, so I feel rather stuck. I guess I could say that, given my past history, there might be some "natural" causes why my relationship with a current girlfriend won't work out (without my having to break up with her nor do anything else specifically detrimental) and by that time I would have made friends. But still, even thinking in this way makes me feel bad. So I dunno. Do you think there is any possibility of my switching from dating that girl to dating one of her friends/relatives so that I don't dump her out of my life completely yet date someone healthy?


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Yeah I thought about taking it slow thing too. Big part of my problem is that I don't have friends altogether and don't know how to make them. If I had a circle of friends, I might have higher chances getting a date, plus the date would have been more likely compatible with me. I guess there is *one* exception to the statement that I can't make friends: namely I made friends at the bible studies (which is where I met that native girl). But then I felt a bit inferior when most people in that bible study were in a relationsihp and I wasn't. I guess that girl is also single but she is a lot younger than me.
> 
> So it feels a bit circular: I feel like I have to be with someone in order to feel like an equal with my friends, and yet I need to have friends in order to be with the type of girl thats compatible. Which then makes me think of a "solution": namely, date someone I am not very comaptible with -- such as "white sickly girl" I am dating now -- use it to make friends, and then switch to dating one of the friends? But then again, I don't want to break the girl's heart, so I feel rather stuck. I guess I could say that, given my past history, there might be some "natural" causes why my relationship with a current girlfriend won't work out (without my having to break up with her nor do anything else specifically detrimental) and by that time I would have made friends. But still, even thinking in this way makes me feel bad. So I dunno. Do you think there is any possibility of my switching from dating that girl to dating one of her friends/relatives so that I don't dump her out of my life completely yet date someone healthy?


well you obviously have an opportunity to make friends and meet people, so try to do that first, expand your social circle. you don't need to be equal to them, just surround yourself with more people. even if you do date this girl just to use her, why would you need to switch from her to her relatives or friends? why not someone else?


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> well you obviously have an opportunity to make friends and meet people, so try to do that first, expand your social circle. you don't need to be equal to them, just surround yourself with more people.


Well, due to my Asperger, its easier said than done. Okay, I guess where I am at right now, is I have a couple of Bible studies I am going to once a week, and I don't see any of those people outside of those bible studies. By the way thats also relevent to the "native girl" I talked about: the fact that I don't see her outside of Bible studies makes it quite possible she doesn't like me that way on the first place and its all in my head. But in any case, I haven't been hanging out with anyone else in those bible studies either, I just see them once a week, and call it "friendship" since nobody else talks to me even that often (other than the "white sickly" girl I am dating whom I met on a dating site).



doe deer said:


> even if you do date this girl just to use her, why would you need to switch from her to her relatives or friends? why not someone else?


I guess I am thinking that if I were to marry one of her relatives, I would become one of her in-laws which means I won't dump her completely and won't have to feel bad about hurting her as much. Although of course it coudl go both ways: its very possible I might hurt her just as much, with an extra hurt of severing her relationship with whomever I would be marrying and/or causing her extra pain by making her see me every day. Of course I can still hope that won't happen and we would have a good relatioship, just the one of in-laws rather than partners, which is why I am asking how likely is either outcome?

As far as meeting people, her mom and sister already like me (her mom is the only one of the two who met me) -- althugh of course I won't be marrying either one of them (her mom is too old and her sister is married). But that just goes to show that she has a way of making her friends/relatives like me. Although of course if any of them knew I was thinking of switching which one of them I date, that like might quickly turn into dislike, so I dunno.


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## SofaKing (May 9, 2014)

Oh tiny baby infant Jesus...why???


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Well, due to my Asperger, its easier said than done. Okay, I guess where I am at right now, is I have a couple of Bible studies I am going to once a week, and I don't see any of those people outside of those bible studies. By the way thats also relevent to the "native girl" I talked about: the fact that I don't see her outside of Bible studies makes it quite possible she doesn't like me that way on the first place and its all in my head. But in any case, I haven't been hanging out with anyone else in those bible studies either, I just see them once a week, and call it "friendship" since nobody else talks to me even that often (other than the "white sickly" girl I am dating whom I met on a dating site).


yeah i have no advice for that since i can't socialize either.



causalset said:


> I guess I am thinking that if I were to marry one of her relatives, I would become one of her in-laws which means I won't dump her completely and won't have to feel bad about hurting her as much. Although of course it coudl go both ways: its very possible I might hurt her just as much, with an extra hurt of severing her relationship with whomever I would be marrying and/or causing her extra pain by making her see me every day. Of course I can still hope that won't happen and we would have a good relatioship, just the one of in-laws rather than partners, which is why I am asking how likely is either outcome?
> 
> As far as meeting people, her mom and sister already like me (her mom is the only one of the two who met me) -- althugh of course I won't be marrying either one of them (her mom is too old and her sister is married). But that just goes to show that she has a way of making her friends/relatives like me. Although of course if any of them knew I was thinking of switching which one of them I date, that like might quickly turn into dislike, so I dunno.


 what do you mean dump her completely? that's what you're supposed to do. you're either with them or you're not. i see what you're trying to say but it makes no sense. in fact it can have the opposite effect where you'll have to see your ex quite often and it will feel awkward. you're overthinking. why not wait until you actually like someone and go from there? why all these plans? you can't plan a relationship with someone you haven't even met yet.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> why not wait until you actually like someone and go from there? why all these plans?


Waiting until I actually like someone, as you put it, assumes that there is a good chance that girl would like me back. But 99.9% of girls don't like me, thats my predicament basically. And I know that what I am talking about in this thread sounds crazy. Thats me being desperate when I have been facing this situation for years and years.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Waiting until I actually like someone, as you put it, assumes that there is a good chance that girl would like me back. But 99.9% of girls don't like me, thats my predicament basically. And I know that what I am talking about in this thread sounds crazy. Thats me being desperate when I have been facing this situation for years and years.


if no girl will like you then how can you make relationship plans? just try to relax a little bit.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> if no girl will like you then how can you make relationship plans? just try to relax a little bit.


Well, the "white sickly" girl likes me, as evident from the fact that we are already dating. The "native" girl I have no clue, other than she is more friendly with me than most and she is single and looking which seems a bit of a coincidence. But at the very least the "white sickly" one likes me. Hence all that thinking about settling.

My track record is that I am 37 and I had 3 long term relationshps. So I guess "very few" girls might like me, but they are few and far between, plus I am getting older so I anticipate it would only get harder.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Well, the "white sickly" girl likes me, as evident from the fact that we are already dating. The "native" girl I have no clue, other than she is more friendly with me than most and she is single and looking which seems a bit of a coincidence. But at the very least the "white sickly" one likes me. Hence all that thinking about settling.


 don't settle. you'll never be happy. rather be alone than with someone you have no feelings for.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> don't settle. you'll never be happy. rather be alone than with someone you have no feelings for.


Well at least if I settle I don't have to be obsessing about being alone the way I used to in all of the numerous posts on this message board alone. So I dunno its a hard choice.


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## doe deer (Oct 9, 2016)

causalset said:


> Well at least if I settle I don't have to be obsessing about being alone the way I used to in all of the numerous posts on this message board alone. So I dunno its a hard choice.


 you can't force a relationship. those things are hard even for people who are in love. if you're not feelin it, it won't work out. you'll end up alone again + ****ed over from another failed relationship. god forbid you marry her and end up divorcing her while she takes your money as well. not worth it.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

doe deer said:


> you can't force a relationship. those things are hard even for people who are in love. if you're not feelin it, it won't work out. you'll end up alone again + ****ed over from another failed relationship. god forbid you marry her and end up divorcing her while she takes your money as well. not worth it.


I mean, on some level I do like her: she is very easy going, very affectionate, and so forth. Thats part of why I keep mentioning not wanting to hurt her: if we didn't have that kind of emotional connection we are having, hurting her won't be such a big concern. But at the same time, I have those hangups that are like elephants in the room pretty much. So its hard.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Update: I dated "sickly" one for a month or maybe a month and a half, and then she broke up with me. Few weeks after that relationship was over I tried adding the "native" one to facebook, and she didn't accept my invite. So I guess both issues are moot. I am now on my own and, as before, can't find anyone.


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