# I'm Not A Man



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

SA has the upper hand on me again, sad to say. But I'm not even upset. I don't even feel anything. I don't think I've given up, but I'm tired of fighting. What happened?

Last year I met a girl at a party. Unlike some people on this board, if I drink, I'm relatively calm at parties. I may not talk a lot, but I do ok. Anyway, within 5 minutes of meeting this girl, she gave me her number. I don't think I called her because I bumped into her soon after and some time soon after we arranged to meet. I brought her to my dorm room. I was living in a suite and we moved into the common room where we watched TV. My friend came in and gave me a thumbs up. Every once in a while she would ask "if my room mate was coming back" and at one point after she gave me a high five she held on to my hand but I still didn't do anything and so she let go. Eventually I walked her back awkwardly. I blew it.....or so I thought.

Just last week, almost a year later, I bumped into her and she recognized me immediately. She took my number again and we exchanged a few flirtatious texts later that night. I couldn't believe that she was giving me another chance and I saw it as fate. Finally, I wouldn't screw up. But then it dawned on me...I didn't think I could do what she wanted me to do. I've been pretty active on this board, trying to get people in similar situations to take advantage of them. But I now realize I have been giving them the same stupid hormonally driven advice that most men give. "Man up." "Make a move." etc. Easy to say when you have some idea what to do. Well, at least I have had a relationship now but it didn't last long enough to get beyond kissing. As I sat there, and as one day after bumping into her turned into 5 days, I realized that I hadn't a clue what to do. I couldn't admit to my friends that I had the experience of a 12 year old, or to my dad who is just as socially awkward as I am. As embarrassing as "the talk" might've been, I never got that rites of passage. I wish I did. I blame my parents and their overprotectiveness. I even lie to some people about my exploits and I guess since people think I'm "good looking," they eat it all up. I turned to the internet of all places, googling extremely embarrassing things, trying to find out as much as I could. 

Finally, 5 days later, I texted her, making up an excuse that I was busy w/midterms and would call her tomorrow (yesterday). I did, pulling up all my confidence, but (and I'm not 100% sure on this) she hung up on me. I tried again and it went to voice mail. Haven't called since. I've failed again. I'm even upset at myself for hurting her. She was nice. I couldn't do it. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with peer-pressure or my own hormones. It doesn't even have to do with some arbitrary deadline that society puts on losing your virginity. But at the same time...I genuinely did want to experience something new. At least then the mystery and anxiety I have about it would lessen. Fate has been playing an unbelievably cruel joke on my for 10+ years. I do get female attention...a good amount for some strange reason. But thanks to my SA and the inexperience it has fostered, instead of learning these new things at 15, 16 and 17, I keep being put into situations where the older I get, the more awkward it gets. 

And if I think about if I did call her a day or two later and we did go through with it, I would've been emasculated also. Can you imagine if I told her?! In a girl it's kind of cute, in a guy it's a turn off. There's no way out of this thing. Yeah, SAers hate being humiliated and such but this is far worse than even bombing a speech. This has to do with, for lack of a better word, my manhood. And I'm not even that kind of guy either. 

Right now I just want to go to sleep and wake up back in high school, before I decided not to make friends, not to take chances with girls and not to learn about life. I'm not saying it's too late to learn by any means, but man...I'm tired of going through this uphill battle where everything new I try to do just makes me more aware of just how inadequate, just how inexperienced, just how naive I am.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

SADFighter,

Let me pose this question to you. Would you be a man if you knew something was wrong and tried do something about it? I think so. Don't beat yourself up over this. It was a bad experience, but it happens to everyone. When I was 20, I had a bad experience with two girls. It's rough, but you learn from it. There is nothing to be ashamed of. You are still a man - a young one - which means that stuff like this will happen.

You have time to correct stuff. This isn't the end of the world . You will be fine.


----------



## Roped (Feb 24, 2008)

i agree with milleniumman.


----------



## OKdOut (Feb 22, 2008)

Been there too, and my girl even sang to me. 
Yep, I still blew it. As much as I wanted to grab her and ....
myself was holding myself back.
That was my 3rd shot in 3 years with her, and I still blew it.
Big time Loser here!


----------



## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

That sucks man. After your first meeting where you thought you blew it, what happened after that? Did you ignore or avoid her? With the next girl, if you think you blew it, call her back after a day or two, cause she still will probably be interested in you. I'm sure girls realize that every guy isn't going to be a casanova, so try not to dwell on your lack of experience, even though it will be tough.


----------



## markx (Dec 22, 2007)

Let me float a wacky idea by you - call her back today and leave a short but _brutally honest_ message on her machine. Don't hide behind *any *lies, just apologize, tell her how you feel about her and the* real *reason why you didn't call her.

It's not like you're some sad 42 year old who's never been with a woman, you're barely out of your teens and lots of people of your age have no experience. Trust me when I say, the more you try to hide your inexperience, the harder it will be to get close to people.


----------



## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

markx said:


> Let me float a wacky idea by you - call her back today and leave a short but _brutally honest_ message on her machine. Don't hide behind *any *lies, just apologize, tell her how you feel about her and the* real *reason why you didn't call her.


I'm not so sure that's the way to go with this. Leaving a VM explaining the reason you didn't call is because you have SA and the social experience of a 12 year old doesn't sound like the best plan IMO. But what do I know...I'm a 27 year old virgin that will never get anywhere with women.


----------



## markx (Dec 22, 2007)

I think it would be better face to face. Leaving a message is easier on one hand, but then again there's always the problem that other people might get to hear it. You don't have to confess to _everything_ or mention the V word, just say something along the lines of...

"I'm REALLY sorry for messing you about time and time again. All that stuff about midterms taking up my time was just a lame, stupid excuse. The truth is I'm embarrassed. I might give the impression that I'm a confident man of the world, but the full, awful reality is that I've never been with a girl before and, as pathetic as it sounds, I was scared of making a complete fool of myself. I think you're an amazing girl and I feel really bad about letting you down but that was the last thing I ever wanted to do. It was nothing personal, I just gave in to my own stupid fears and embarrassment. I'm sorry, I hope that you won't think too badly of me".


----------



## hopeful dreamer (Feb 23, 2008)

markx said:


> "I'm REALLY sorry for messing you about time and time again. All that stuff about midterms taking up my time was just a lame, stupid excuse. The truth is I'm embarrassed. I might give the impression that I'm a confident man of the world, but the full, awful reality is that I've never been with a girl before and, as pathetic as it sounds, I was scared of making a complete fool of myself. I think you're an amazing girl and I feel really bad about letting you down but that was the last thing I ever wanted to do. It was nothing personal, I just gave in to my own stupid fears and embarrassment. I'm sorry, I hope that you won't think too badly of me".


I don't think that is the way to go, I wouldn't go telling her you was being pathetic because you've never had a girlfriend. I'd go more along the lines of:

"I'm sorry I didn't call you, I was just really nervous because I like you so much. I think you're amazing and I'd love to spend some time with you ..."

but my track record is pathetic so I'm probably not the best person to be taking advice from.


----------



## markx (Dec 22, 2007)

Lol, yeah, you're probably right, it is a bit too wordy. Surely there's someone around here who knows about this stuff - someone who's been within 10 feet of a woman in the last 5 years? :stu


----------



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

shyvr6 said:


> That sucks man. After your first meeting where you thought you blew it, what happened after that? Did you ignore or avoid her? With the next girl, if you think you blew it, call her back after a day or two, cause she still will probably be interested in you. I'm sure girls realize that every guy isn't going to be a casanova, so try not to dwell on your lack of experience, even though it will be tough.


Actually, it was near the end of the year. Surprisingly, before I left her that night, she thanked me for walking her back and even told me to call her but we never we able to meet up. She did text me apologizing and wished me a good summer. Last semester she was away. When I saw her last week, it was the first time since last May.


----------



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

millenniumman75 said:


> SADFighter,
> 
> Let me pose this question to you. Would you be a man if you knew something was wrong and tried do something about it? I think so. Don't beat yourself up over this. It was a bad experience, but it happens to everyone. When I was 20, I had a bad experience with two girls. It's rough, but you learn from it. There is nothing to be ashamed of. You are still a man - a young one - which means that stuff like this will happen.
> 
> You have time to correct stuff. This isn't the end of the world . You will be fine.


Thanks millenniumman. I feel a bit better about it today. I think this experience has really revealed to me the root of my problems with women.


----------



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

markx said:


> Let me float a wacky idea by you - call her back today and leave a short but _brutally honest_ message on her machine. Don't hide behind *any *lies, just apologize, tell her how you feel about her and the* real *reason why you didn't call her.
> 
> It's not like you're some sad 42 year old who's never been with a woman, you're barely out of your teens and lots of people of your age have no experience. Trust me when I say, the more you try to hide your inexperience, the harder it will be to get close to people.


Ha. Interesting idea. I'd be nice to explain myself for once, instead of just leaving a girl confused and maybe even hurt. An e-mail might be easier than a voice mail. I'll think about it and give an update.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I actually agree with Mark.

On top of the usuals, one of the main symtpoms of SA is not being able to be vulnerable with people, not being able to share honest feelings of weakness. We tend to believe that we must always be strong, that if people saw the "real us" they would be repelled. We spend huge amounts of our lives trying to figure out how to be entertaining, outgoing and confident. We may believe that because we have negative feelings we must be weak. We must be a loser. We may even believe that 'real men' never experience any negative emotions of any kind.

Of course, this is all utter crap - the same crap that SA is so adept at making us buy into.

In fact the rest of the world realises that true closeness in relationships and friendships comes from emotional honesty. Letting people under your armour in an HONEST way. Being comfortable with your flaws and showing trust enough to admit them to people who you feel you want to be close with.

I agree completely that you should be honest woth this girl. Tell her that you do really like her and have spent a huge amount of your life battling depression and anxiety, and that even though you really like her there is a fear that holds you back. Two things can happen: One, she stays distant and does not respond - in this case, there is no difference between the situation now as it stands.

The second is that she will feel CLOSER to you for your admission. Right now she thinks that you rejected her out of a lack of sexual attraction or because of something wrong with her. She felt (wrongly) that you were screwing her around, and felt the healthy thing to do was to distance herself from you. She doesnt know the real reason, and like most people has assumed it has to do with some failing of HERS. Thats why she's avoiding you. If you are honest with her, she will see that its NOT her, and also that you care enough about to her to open up. People see emotional honesty as TRUST and of VALUING THEM - they dont see it as the admission of inner patheticness that SA'ers think others see it as. This doesnt mean go around telling all and sundry how unhappy you are - it means disclosing little things to the people who matter. You may very well be surprised to find that her attitude softens and that she actually RESPECTS you for having the courage to tell her. When there is a connection of this type, the emotions are far more powerful.

This girl could very well end up being a healing for you, that helps you to trust women. At the heart of your fear of intimacy is the fear that your own view of yourself - that you are worthless, weak and unlovable - will be proven. You back away because you want to avoid the fear MORE than you want to experience the sensation of closeness and of sexual intimacy. This is the stuff of true romatic closeness - trust, honesty, acceptance of flaws and the ability to listen to one another. I have been honest with friends about my fight with depression and anxiety and they have been enormously supportive. I feel closer to them than perhaps to any friends I have ever had, and yet I have known them only a few months. Do you think they are a fleeting exception? Or is it perhaps possible that most of the world is in fact this way? Sure there are some a-holes out there - the abusive types, the manipulators - but you learn who to trust and you must also learn that many people ARE TRUSTWORTHY.

If you do not admit the depth of the fear that holds you back, then you will freeze EVERY TIME you get to the 'crunch point'. Its in you, its part of you. You need to heal it. You can take advice about how to look manly or not clingy and this might work to buy you a second chance ... but you have still not told her what holds you back. You have still not challenged that fear that admitting 'weakness' leads to rejection and humiliation. If she gives you a second chance on the basis of something less than total honesty - and you still cannot go through with it - she will be even more angry and think that you are being cruel to her. You can take the sosuave.com type of advice and try not to "seem like a chump" or "be an alpha male" - or you can realise that honestly accepting your flaws and emotions and showing you are not afraid for others to see them is the sign of true strength. "An alpha" is still emotionally vulnerable - with the right people. "An alpha" who has no emotions but only pure dominance is in fact a megalomaniac or a narcissist - and these are not healthy. Put the internet dating and Mens magazine BS to the back of your mind and instead work on what it is to be *human.*

I think that face to face or over the phone is the best way. A handwritten letter would also be good. Failing that a voicemail or an email. The people that are posting here saying its a bad idea are acting out of the same fear that you are - the fear of humiliation. I actually think that this is an opportunity to discover something deeper about human - and your own - nature. People have emotions and they have emotional needs. You have them too - but you may have spent so long repressing them that you barely knew they were there. Overcoming SA is NOT just about 'not feeling anxious' - it is about totally changing your attitude to others, yourself and the emotional drives that are a core part of being human. Reclaim yourself dude.

Ross


----------



## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

markx said:


> Surely there's someone around here who knows about this stuff - someone who's been within 10 feet of a woman in the last 5 years? :stu


 :haha

I think a woman might've looked in my direction once in the last 5 years. That was like the highlight of my week. :lol



hopeful dreamer said:


> I'd go more along the lines of:
> 
> "I'm sorry I didn't call you, I was just really nervous because I like you so much. I think you're amazing and I'd love to spend some time with you ..."


I like that. It's short and to the point without making you look like a chump loser. Although I would suggest dropping the "so much" part at the end of the first sentence. You don't want to come off too clingy too soon.

Don't go into any other details about never being with a woman before, etc. That won't help your situation.


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

Wow that might as well have been written by me. The betterish news for you is you're a bit younger and actually moved in for a kiss but I'm getting those same feelings on a pretty consistent basis. Like I'm driving yesterday thinking even if I was dating someone I wouldn't know what to do romantically or entertainment wise. And every so often when I actually feel somewhat confident in my appearance the sa stats flash through my mind of how much the odds are against me and having a successful career and successful relationship and then suddenly I feel guilty and selfish for even considering finding a girl. 

Sometimes I wish a women would be able to completely spot my sa and have some kind of inclination to teach me all about dating and women.


----------



## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

A couple of things come to mind. I think it would be best, before you do anything else regarding this situation, to be clear with yourself what you hope to accomplish. For example, are you trying to salvage things with this person? Are you trying to resolve this situation for yourself without regard for whether things work with her? Some combination of the two?

I would be a little cautious about sharing too much too soon with this person. I've been there. People who are uncomfortable with intimacy sometimes move between extremes too quickly, going from unavailable to totally open very quickly and overwhelming people. Just a thought.

But what ever you do, do it as a matter of conscious, deliberate choice. Whether she responds well or not, you'll feel better if you make a choice and follow through on it.


----------



## LoverBoy (May 9, 2007)

I went through this phase myself and still am to a smaller degree

Right now I am in party mode.

I make out with random chicks I make sure the people around me are having a kick *** time. I bring shy people out of there shells and literally take them by the arm and make them dance and stuff and THEY do truly enjoy it.

It is a learn able skill and once it is learned it becomes part of the norm. Whether it is partying.....making out....sex....threesome...... you are what you repeatedly do. 
Right now my sticking point is escalating on a consistent basis and being able to escalate on people who are not friends of friends or a part of my social circle.

Know that you can walk the path of glory. I was a major dork in HS but I had help along the way and I wanted to change bad enough.
I'm not where I totally want to be and neither are you but it is the journey that makes things most fun.

My biggest thing or insight was that you are already good enough. You don't need to learn how to do anything or need to achieve something you can talk to girls or get a good job or whatever you want. 

You already are good enough. You are complete. You do have the ability to make your life the way you want. 

Ride the roller coaster of life homie


----------



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> I actually agree with Mark.
> 
> On top of the usuals, one of the main symtpoms of SA is not being able to be vulnerable with people, not being able to share honest feelings of weakness. We tend to believe that we must always be strong, that if people saw the "real us" they would be repelled. We spend huge amounts of our lives trying to figure out how to be entertaining, outgoing and confident. We may believe that because we have negative feelings we must be weak. We must be a loser. We may even believe that 'real men' never experience any negative emotions of any kind.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to respond, yeah yeah yeah. As usual, your advice is on point. I sent her an e-mail admitting that I lied when I said I was busy, and that despite my actions, I was interested. I said that sometimes I just sabotage things before they get off the ground and that if we could talk in person that'd be nice but if not, at least now there isn't a misunderstanding. No response so far (this was Sun night) but I'm cool either way. It could not be said that I didn't try to make things right.

What you say about being vulnerable is also correct. I had a similar experience last year and contrary to what my negative thoughts were telling me, confessing little things (and even big things...like having SA, never being in a relationship before) lead to my *first* relationship, not scorn, rejection or mockery. In hindsight, indeed, I probably overreacted in the OP. I suppose lessons sometimes have to be learned more than once....My old thought patterns are still there but I rebound fast. On the heels of what I experienced last year and this (botched?) second chance with this girl, I feel that whenever fear gets in the way, never again will I allow myself not to try to make things right.

I think it's pretty clear to me now, having experienced multiple kinds of interactions with women, where my fear comes from: Inexperience, whether that be in a romantic relationship or a sexual one. But despite my limited experience, I did just fine in a relationship (some things I even did amazing) so I should just start with what I have achieved, what I will if I keep at it and just look at things rationally. Obviously if even at my worst (during HS), I still attracted people, I'm a good person, getting better by the day.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Glad that you have got some clarity there SF! I think its a good experience for the future. 

Not to sound too much like a hippie, but its good to use 'i feel' type statements when making things up with someone, so that people understand exactly what your emotions were. It may have been stronger to say "when I get close I feel like pulling away - its silly of me because in fact I am really intersted in seeing you again, so if you would like to meet for a chat I would feel really happy". She COULD take your words up there a little dismissively, perhaps feel like its saying "I lied but hey I'll give you a second chance ("you lucky girl" being the undercurrent ...  )". Always make desires and motives and any assumptions on your part clear - it just helps to avoid misunderstanding.

Other than that, I think its great experience and its something it took me until years after I was your age to figure out  It makes you a stronger and more honest person, and that is very valuable.

Hope she replies..

Ross


----------



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Glad that you have got some clarity there SF! I think its a good experience for the future.
> 
> Not to sound too much like a hippie, but its good to use 'i feel' type statements when making things up with someone, so that people understand exactly what your emotions were. It may have been stronger to say "when I get close I feel like pulling away - its silly of me because in fact I am really intersted in seeing you again, so if you would like to meet for a chat I would feel really happy". She COULD take your words up there a little dismissively, perhaps feel like its saying "I lied but hey I'll give you a second chance ("you lucky girl" being the undercurrent ...  )". Always make desires and motives and any assumptions on your part clear - it just helps to avoid misunderstanding.
> 
> ...


[url.] [/url]

Ha, I think I'm just not good at paraphrasing. The actual message was far more delicate. Many of my profs were hippies in fact. I just got a response Finally. First, she thanked me for being upfront. Then she explained that she doesn't really want to date now because of school and such and is sorry if she lead me to believe otherwise. Then she said I hope we could be friends and added some other nice things.

I don't know what to think about this. I never thought of her interest as something romantic to begin with. Maybe it could've turned into that but like I said in my OP, it seemed more sexual. I mean, despite my social struggles, I think I know the difference between asking someone out and things escalating from date to date and a random, more casual hang out. And now, thanks to being "upfront," I essentially got "rejected" and thrust into the friend zone. I'm not sure what to do next. I mean, in part because of my pride and also just for being completely honest, I'd be nice if I could find a way to communicate that I didn't think of our interactions as romantic either. I guess I could just say that. hmmm. And also, has she lost the sexual attraction she had towards me?

Well, at least I did it. Better that she thinks I liked her than that I'm a jerk...I guess. :stu


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

The Friend Zone

Ah the phrase that belies time spent on sosuave.com ... the site that convinces you that if she doesnt wanna screw you, then YOU MESSED UP 'THE METHOD' and if she does, then you applied it right ....

Girls are human beings guy. They make decisions based on a lot of things and emotions are one of them. If you want a relationship, do you really want it just because you applied The Venusian Arts correctly? "Oh my god, am I at 2a or 3b??". 

You both had an intimate moment and unfortunately it did not work out. You know a lot about psychology, and you may realise that if she has some fear of abandonment or a deep need for very secure love, then she may well have been scared off at the first incident.

You MAY have been able to use some technique off a website to get her back into bed - but then what would have happened to YOU? Would the Mystery Method have suddenly got you over your fear of intimacy? Honesty is what relationships are forged on. I cant know what you said in the mail but dude you have learnt an important lesson for the future. You are more aware and more comfortable with your emotions and who you are. You don't need to hide behind techniques.

My most 'successful' years in terms of dating (OK sarging if you wanna call it that) were simply when I felt HAPPY. My mood was what got me 'numbers and lays'. A $3600 boot camp did nothing for me - because my anxiety was so bad I had a panic attack in the middle of it. I wasn't a 'closet natural' - it was simply that when I was 'good' I had put approval in its rightful place and gave warmth to others. 

Being reliant on these dating websites is just fuelling your 'should' statements about the world - "I should be able to have sex with every girl I want". "Women should want to have sex with me". "I should be able to get women to do what I wan them to". All or nothing thinking - "She does not want sex and so now I a am not a real man". Overgeneralisation - "now this girl does not want to go to bed with me, I will never have a date again". Magnification - "this girls opinion shows how pathetic I am" "all women want a stud and a player who knows the 'right lines' ".

Sites like sosuave buy into this type of thinking and it supports the approval addicted of us who belive that in order to be a worthy human being you must be getting laid every night, opening sets of HB10's and having threesomes with models by using the Style Tripke Induction technique. And man, does that stuff sell books, seminars and videos?

"In order to be worthy I must be getting laaid every night". In fact, if you already felt worthy you would be ore likely to be successful.

Stop putting yourself down - this is one example of life where you didnt get the outcome you wanted. In fact its healthier for you to sit down, think it through, see what you learned about yourself and then move on. One girl found you attractive, that means others will too. Keep working on YOU and the girls will come. And for heavens sake - stop looking at PUA sites. For the social anxiety sufferers and depressed people of this world they do nothing but FEED your problems by pushing approval addiction, status and 'covering' your own personality. Find what is attractive about you and maximise it through a sense of love for yourself and others. Seriously dude, when that comes you do not have to try - it becomes easy because even if you 'fail' - as in, dont get a number close, you still win because you see it as experience instead of a resounding condemnation of your masculinity. And if she likes you - well, then she likes you for YOU and not some damn 5 point method you lifted from a post on a bulletin board.

What is attractive is the warmth you give out, your acceptance and validation of others, your ability to 'see' the person you are talking to and your honesty about your attraction. Its simple psychology - people want to feel like admiration is earned, that it is THEM you liked and not just a look or a bust size. As a man, yes the ideal is if you make the initiating moves and this takes calm and confidence in yourself - but the thing is this comes INTERNALLY through your own value of yourself. A relationship based on demanding needs and the covering of emotional holes is not a healthy one, and though you may get to brag about the sex in the bar, it is still you that deals with the emotional fall out. Remember that word - EMOTION.

The one exception I have found is the Charisma Arts dating people. They teach emotional honesty and connection over NLP or hypnosis or alpha male stuff. How to see a woman as a human being, not some collection of neurochemical triggers that if pressed in the right order will cause panties to drop and bra straps to ping. But still - if you MUST use these things, just take a 'feel' of the principes and use to flesh things out. Start trying to follow a method and you are screwed - but really they are teaching nothing more than emotional honesty.

And thats a darn sight cheaper than constantly updating your peacocking wear.

Ross


----------



## SADFighter (May 4, 2007)

What's sosuave? I've only read The Game.

I think most of what you've written (and this is a first) doesn't really apply to me here, though maybe it'll help someone else. I was just wondering how to now communicate to her that she in fact misread my e-mail and how to maybe get back to things being casual between us again. I've figured out the first but the second I'm still stumped on.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

The Game is the same deal 

Really I would just give her space, and the next time you see her just be postive. Dont beat yourself up over it, dont mope on it. If you do CBT, run it through a mood diary and that will clear up the emotional loose ends and ideitufy anything that might still be niggling you. Remember that this girl liked you so thats evidence you are attractive, get back out into the world thinking "hey, some girls think I'm cute". Chat to people, guys and girls, in a positive, non try hard way. Put out good vibes and you get em back. The reverse is also true


----------



## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Since when does a girl's saying she doesn't want to date but instead just wants to be friends imply she most likely wants to have sex with you?

Sorry, I just don't buy all of those theories on this meaning this, that meaning that, etc. :stu


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I agree - you're reading too much into it. 
Or putting 2 and 2 together and trying to get 8 as my dad always told me.

This is a BIG problem for people with SA. We try to pull stuff out of thin air.


----------



## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

You said:


> ardrum said:
> 
> 
> > Since when does a girl's saying she doesn't want to date but instead just wants to be friends imply she most likely wants to have sex with you?
> ...


There's just a lot of speculation here regarding this girl's thoughts, intentions, and desires. That can go any any direction. I agree most with the final sentence.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Ardie is right. Its all speculation, risk. You have to put your neck on the line in life. The flipside of the "you should just go for it" argument is that pushing the issue of sex even more will upset her. Empathy is not weakness. "Being alpha" does not mean 'pushing and pushing until the Ice Queen gives up the poo-nannie".

Maybe SADFighter wants a girlfriend as opposed to an HB10 to notch up and post a field report on? 

I still say that in order to make your love life fulfilling, whether its in playing the field or a proper relationship - you need to get HEALTHY first. If you're carrying around poor eseteem issues, anger, resentment, entitlement, fear of abandonment etc then a relationship is like walking into a nuclear reactor with a shotgun. Unless you are very lucky you are going to set off some chain reactions, placed as you are in a less advantageus position to interpret and deal with negative emotional feedback.

If a girl in bar rejects you, is she "an ice queen", or in fact has you resentment of women and your insisence they all want to 'have you' just made you label them that way? Maybe she was drunk. Maybe she'd had an argument. Maybe her buddies were getting no attention and she did not want to feel like she was rubbing it in their faces and so was being 'off' with guys. I am sure there is a technique for every situation and perhaps if you consume every last byte of data on 'your game' you msy well get here.

Alternatively you can see that you ARE attractive without the techniques, that YOUR PERSONALITY is likeable, that rejection is only a temporary disapppintment and not a summation of your worth as a human and that it is possible to be happy without sha*ging everything that has a pulse.

Love and sex are part of normal emotional development. When you emotionally try to turn it into a science and make it SERVE you, that is when you are going into some psychologically sick territory. 

SADFighter - you have read the game, you know how it ends. Was Mystery happy by the end? Did Style carry on getting laid every day? Or did he find something meaningful? Did that one who was meaningful BUY all the PUA stuff, or did she actually like him IN SPITE OF IT? Read the book and understand what the real message is. 

In my experience the main thing these dating schools teach that is important is to simply approach. That is what holds most men back. Thereafter being genuine, being warm, being honest about your attraction (whilst still treating her as a human being) and respecting her limits is what wins through. Go say hi. Try opening up the emotional faucet a little. Tell her some little bits about you and give a warm, upbeat vibe. If she responds well, run with whatever you get back and show her that you can empathise - understand another persons moods, likes and tastes. See what it special about her - not just what her bra size is. If she does not want to talk, then accept it. Its not a competition and its not a judgement of your manhood. You're just PEOPLE, equally valuable. special and lovable in your own right - you dont need to earn worth, its already given. Coitus doesnt earn you extra points.

Did you know that a particular psychological schema - the Mistrust and Abuse Schema - makes women attracted to abusive, narcissistic men? Did you know that the Emotional Deprivation schema makes women attracted to men who are unable to provide them with love and to meet their emotional needs? You could argue that women who like this Alpha character that is so often portrayed as the ideal is likely to attract women who are in some way hurting, and you happen to be playing thr part of a character that appeals to this value system. One, you are being dishonest, and two what are you going to be dealing with? Will you be helping her see thre world in a better, or worse way when you lay her and leave her?

Its great to get your end away three times a week but what about the human being that you are using to get it? Women do like sex, thats right - but lots of women equally like respect and genuine warmth, as opposed to someone playing a part he learned on the internet.

Ross


----------



## joel05 (Mar 7, 2008)

You really don't have anything to apologize to her about the way i see it. Other guys your age are most likely going around screwing several girls at a time and never calling any of them back, and being jerks in general :afr If you are honest with her and just explain that you haven't dated much, she'll get the idea and maybe be the one to take some initiative. This has worked for me in the past a couple of times but everyone's different.


----------



## Dante vs Kirby (Mar 15, 2008)

hey i know how you feel, you just need to overcome the feeling of anixiety dont think just do it, dont think, THINKING IS THE ENEMY HERE TRUST ME I KNOW THIS ALL TWO WELL I THOUGHT ABOUT it EVERY DAY FOR 7 YEARS and understand it, it aniexty stems from thinking make you mind blank and just relax, or you will never accomplish anything useful you will waste time and wither away slowing until theres nothing left but an empty husk and lingering memory of what could have been, should have been but wasn,t. Crush those future memories by acting NOW. Ok peace i have to go eat a box oF CraYoNz now.


----------

