# My mind has officially been blown



## Brad (Dec 27, 2011)

I've engaged in countless discussions/debates about religion and have been exposed to what I thought was every level of crazy, but never have I been absolutely blown away by what a Christian/religious person has told me. I'm still as I write this (5+ hours after the conversation) in complete disbelief of the stuff that was said.

Basically, my partners Dad is a pretty fanatical Christian. As far as first impressions, he comes off as someone who is pretty laid back, friendly, level headed, smart, with a high IQ, but the more I've gotten to know him the more I see that he's actually pretty mentally unstable, angry, bitter, somewhat bipolar, and to a certain degree, delusional, which shocks me because as I said, by all superficial accounts he seems to be a perfectly sane/reasonable person.

He knows that I don't share his religious views, but felt the need to go down that road and go off about religion, immediately starting off by claiming that I'm "narrow" minded and "not open to other viewpoints", which threw me off a bit because he literally had no idea what i've read, considered, and studied to come to my views. He just knew the end result and automatically labelled it "wrong" without any discussion or exchange of ideas.

Anyways, things started out with that sort of narrative - him baselessly insulting me and my beliefs to immediately discredit anything I say before I say anything - asserting that Atheists are close minded, ignorant, and arrogant to think that god doesn't exist. Blah blah blah, that's rhetoric which isn't based in logic or reason and is more of an ad-hominem attack to smear my views and put his on a superior pedestal before the discussion even takes place. We went back and forth a bit, with him deflecting and evading most of my questions/points. When logical arguments didn't work, he proceeded to say, as reason for him believing, that I could never shake his beliefs because he -literally- came face to face with a DEMON after waking up in the middle of the night, and the demon even spoke to him. He also said that jesus personally speaks to him (through actual audible voices), which he writes down in a journal. These are among just a few wildy superstitious claims he made to support his views when having a rational evidence-based discussion didn't work out.

I'm sorry, but once someone starts to talk about seeing demons and hearing voices I can no longer really take what they're saying seriously, or anything that they ever say seriously, and it further convinces me that he really has some unresolved mental issues that he needs to check out (which, unfortunately will probably always be unresolved because he uses religion to explain them).

I mean, sure, you read online about some fringe crazy people believing stuff like this, but it's a completely different experience having a face to face debate with someone who is saying this stuff, especially when said person is someone you know and is a part of your personal life. It's sort of on the level of having a family member claiming to be a psychic or something; it's hard to have a rational conversation with them without questioning their sanity or mental health.

That aside, he continuously talked over me/had an extremely nasty, combative, and defensive tone whenever I said something that challenged his beliefs even slightly. That's a tell-tale sign of someone being massively insecure in their beliefs, and was confirmed by the fact that he couldn't handle any sort of discussion without trying to talk over, interrupt, straw man, and bully his way through the discussion until leaving the room altogether.

The fact that he's my partners dad has also thrown me off, because I'm honestly at this point not sure if he actually suffers from extreme delusion/mental illness, and it makes me feel uncomfortable that he'll always have some pent up hostility towards me because of his fanaticism. I'm not trying to be nasty or offensive by saying that either, but sadly if he were suffering from mental illness/delusion he would never admit or acknowledge it, because he's already convinced himself these things were not only supernatural, but evidence of his religious beliefs being true, so it's a case of confirmation bias and ignoring anything that contradicts it.

Thoughts?


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## kageri (Oct 2, 2014)

This is one situation where it's best not to have anything to say. When you find out the person you are talking to is crazy or just plain not willing to discuss instead of flip out you smile, nod, and quietly pretend to accept whatever they said. Letting them think they won is the safest approach.


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## Were (Oct 16, 2006)

What if the Jesus voice tells him to kill you for being a bad influence on his daughter or something? There was a serial killer like that called Son of Sam, he took orders from a dog.


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

He probably had a hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucination and interpreted it as an encounter with a demon because his cult tells him such things exist. Doesn't mean he's schizo or anything, I've had such hallucinations too. They happen under certain circumstances. He's not even the only Christian I've heard saying they saw a demon/Satan in bed.


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## Brad (Dec 27, 2011)

LawfulStupid said:


> He probably had a hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucination and interpreted it as an encounter with a demon because his cult tells him such things exist.


Those types of Hallucinations actually very accurately describe the stuff he was saying, and is probably a very legitimate possibility for what he experienced. I was reading that these hallucinations also occur more often in people with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and those who take certain medications and/or suffer from sleep related issues - most of which he has (I don't think he's been diagnosed with bipolar but he shows signs).

I suspect though, that if he were confronted with this information he would get hostile and immediately dismiss it without looking into it though, because he seems to be at a "too far gone" point where he's invested so much emotionally and psychologically into his religious beliefs being true, that he'd rather only consult information that re-enforces his existing beliefs while ignoring contradicting evidence.


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## hmweasley (Sep 12, 2013)

I have an aunt who swears she was taken to heaven in a dream before. We all just kind of let her tell her stories and move on with our lives because there's not anything else to really be done. I have other family members that get into a bit of "crazy" territory with religion. Some of them are convinced that One Direction music is devil music. (I can't remember what reason was given for that. They listen to other popular music.) Again, the rest of us just let them say it and move on with our lives.

That's just the easiest thing to do. You're not going to convince the guy that you're right and he's wrong. If it's your partner's dad, then you probably don't want to piss him off, and that's all that would really happen if you confronted him. I think you have to pick and choose your battles with who you confront, and in this situation, I don't think it's worth it.


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## drjohnsn (Sep 30, 2015)

Ever seen anyone speak in tongues? Now that blows my mind. I mean, here you are, essentially yodeling badly, and you think repeating two or three basic sounds in a semi-random pattern is a mystical ancient language?

I'd love to see a Pentecostal linguistics professor trying to figure that out.


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## TNick (Nov 2, 2015)

Haha, my family recently dragged me with them to a "new wave" christian church or some such ****. The opening act consists of a christian rock band on stage with smoke machines and ear-drum blowing sound levels. People in the audience would randomly start shaking or crying or uttering strange words. - So bizarre. The only time I've ever made faces like these people were making was during HIGH dose hallucinogen trips.

Was extremely uncomfortable being there.


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## IlIlIlIrlpoloIlIlIlI (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm extremely openminded, and I often like to debate even if I agree with them to see where this leads. Religion and politics make people so mad, it's interesting how there are two sides of the spectrum, and you never know what side someone will take until you hear it from their mouth.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Were said:


> What if the Jesus voice tells him to kill you for being a bad influence on his daughter or something? There was a serial killer like that called Son of Sam, he took orders from a dog.


I doubt that is going to happen.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

LawfulStupid said:


> He probably had a hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucination and interpreted it as an encounter with a demon because his cult tells him such things exist. Doesn't mean he's schizo or anything, I've had such hallucinations too. They happen under certain circumstances. He's not even the only Christian I've heard saying they saw a demon/Satan in bed.


How do you know demons don't exist?


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## mattmc (Jun 27, 2013)

I could swear I saw a hulking red bipedal mass walking into my kitchen as I sat on the couch when I was a kid.

But then another time I was outside my house and saw a dog... and then looked again, and it was just a guy. So sometimes we're just seeing things. Especially if it's just for a brief moment.

Can I say for certainty that some form of malevolent spirit or entity doesn't exist? Of course not.

But the extent that many religious people torture themselves over this belief, the constant feeling of being attacked, is sad to see.


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## IlIlIlIrlpoloIlIlIlI (Feb 5, 2012)

I've seen and talked to people who weren't there while on certain hallucinogens (deliriants), very bizarre, not pleasant, not advised. You literally think that it's all real, only to find your alone, basically your temporarily crazy.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

TNick said:


> Haha, my family recently dragged me with them to a "new wave" christian church or some such ****. The opening act consists of a christian rock band on stage with smoke machines and ear-drum blowing sound levels. People in the audience would randomly start shaking or crying or uttering strange words. - So bizarre. The only time I've ever made faces like these people were making was during HIGH dose hallucinogen trips.
> 
> Was extremely uncomfortable being there.


To me anyway, that sounds freakin awesome. I'd go. YOLO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brad (Dec 27, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> How do you know demons don't exist?


Concluding that what he saw was a "Demon" is about as logical as saying that someone mentally ill is possessed by the devil, despite that persons mental illness being well established in medicine. There are very legitimate, well documented conditions/scenarios where hallucinations happen to a lot of people, in the same circumstances, in the same vivid detail he was explaining. Ignoring well established medicine, or choosing not to even consult it, and instead jumping to the wild, unsubstantiated, baseless claim that it was a demon present in his bedroom, is very illogical, superstitious, and paranoid - even for someone who is a Christian.

But no, I can't _prove _demons don't exist. I also can't prove that they do exist, or that any other made-up entity doesn't exist. If something _doesn't _exist, you can't necessarily disprove it's existence because there was nothing present to begin with to disprove.

So basically, my point is, you have someone experiencing something which is well known and medically established (hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations), and rather than accept that as at least a most likely cause of what happened or at least consult mental health professionals to rule it out, they immediately go to DEMONS, despite the symptoms and circumstances being nearly identical to that of a relatively common occurrence well established in medicine and health. It's a choice between critical and rational thought, and baseless superstition.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Having lived with two religious far right christian young earth creationist fundamentalists(as well as both sides of my family) my whole life, I can personally say I have seen and heard it all, every last nutty thing you can think of. My uncle is repsonible for building Ken Ham's Ark at his nutty creationist museum in the USA. My father is a generally terrible human being, who uses religion to try and tear others down to his level. My mother also shares the exact same religion but is generally a kind, caring person unlike my father. When my father starts rambling about his fox news related bigotry and trudeau is a muslim because he dresses like one(actual quote of my father), Obama is a nazi commi antichrist, sometimes I shut him down real quick with facts, or I may just acknowledge what a lost cause he is, by choosing to not reply and instead pity or hate him.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Brad said:


> Concluding that what he saw was a "Demon" is about as logical as saying that someone mentally ill is possessed by the devil, despite that persons mental illness being well established in medicine. There are very legitimate, well documented conditions/scenarios where hallucinations happen to a lot of people, in the same circumstances, in the same vivid detail he was explaining. Ignoring well established medicine, or choosing not to even consult it, and instead jumping to the wild, unsubstantiated, baseless claim that it was a demon present in his bedroom, is very illogical, superstitious, and paranoid - even for someone who is a Christian.
> 
> But no, I can't _prove _demons don't exist. I also can't prove that they do exist, or that any other made-up entity doesn't exist. If something _doesn't _exist, you can't necessarily disprove it's existence because there was nothing present to begin with to disprove.
> 
> So basically, my point is, you have someone experiencing something which is well known and medically established (hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations), and rather than accept that as at least a most likely cause of what happened, they immediately go to DEMONS, despite the symptoms and circumstances being nearly identical to that of a relatively common occurrence well established in medicine and health. It's a choice between critical and rational thought, and baseless superstition.


Indeed. Sleep paralysis is also a well documented reason for people seeing demons/ghosts/aliens and various weird things when moving between conciousness and sleep. They key point is that what they experience almost always ties in with their beliefs, which indicates that it's all in their own mind.

As you say, we don't believe the vivid hallucinations of schizophrenics actually exist so why should we believe the hallucinations of religious people? The fact your partners father is also hearing voices which he interprets as a character from his chosen religion sounds like he may well have schizophrenia.

Such compelling experiences of course means he has zero doubt what he believes is real, when the sad truth is that he is probably mentally ill.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

ugh1979 said:


> As you say, we don't believe the vivid hallucinations of schizophrenics actually exist so why should we believe the hallucinations of religious people?


For some reason religion gets judged by a different set of rules for which has never made sense to me.


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## Arthur Dent (Jan 15, 2013)

I feel you man. My father is in a crazy theosophist cult. He literally prays to Hercules and King Arthur among others. Very similar to a Christian fundamentalist, he thinks everything's immoral and everything he doesn't like it's the work of fallen angels. He complains that I never talk to him, but almost every time we do he brings up all that nonsense and starts to nag me.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Noca said:


> For some reason religion gets judged by a different set of rules for which has never made sense to me.


Indeed, it's due to it being institutionalised lunacy which makes it difficult to challenge, as there is such an array of related claims from those that can be harmless yet irrational beliefs, all the way to batsh*t crazy beliefs which can be very similar to typical hallucinatory based beliefs of schizophrenics.

I think those with the likes of schizophrenia can more easily hide behind the cover of their chosen religion to rationale their mental health induced delusions.

On that note, there have been a few accounts of notable religious leaders who it seemed from later study had notable mental health issues (such as temporal lobe epilepsy and schizophrenia) which led them to think they were communicating with god etc, and their religious community actually revered them for it, as they didn't know it was in fact an mental health issue.


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## LSF (Sep 4, 2013)

I learned to never discuss faith matters with fanatic religious people because it all ends up drivel.


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## ManicXenophobe (Nov 8, 2013)

millenniumman75 said:


> How do you know demons don't exist?


because their existence hasn't been proven.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Brad said:


> I've engaged in countless discussions/debates about religion and have been exposed to what I thought was every level of crazy, but never have I been absolutely blown away by what a Christian/religious person has told me. I'm still as I write this (5+ hours after the conversation) in complete disbelief of the stuff that was said.
> 
> Basically, my partners Dad is a pretty fanatical Christian. As far as first impressions, he comes off as someone who is pretty laid back, friendly, level headed, smart, with a high IQ, but the more I've gotten to know him the more I see that he's actually pretty mentally unstable, angry, bitter, somewhat bipolar, and to a certain degree, delusional, which shocks me because as I said, by all superficial accounts he seems to be a perfectly sane/reasonable person.
> 
> ...


You should learn how to respect other people's views.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

Your partner's dad is mentally ill.


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## Bloat (Jan 24, 2014)

YAYAYAYA


MY mind is blown away from delusions the mass public have.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

nubly said:


> You should learn how to respect other people's views.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In this case your effectively saying the OP should learn to respect his partners dads irrational mindless abuse. Also, the fact the man actually mentioned things which are potential mental health concerns (hearing voices etc) then that means invention is potentially required.

If someone has mental health issues which can cause damage to them or others you shouldn't "respect" them and leave them be, you should try and help them to overcome them.

Just because their illness has a religious side doesn't mean it's not worthy of professional help.


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## Search (Apr 20, 2013)

> You should learn how to respect other people's views.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fanatical Idealist's, fundamentalists and religious people often adopt such a response when offended with the truth. Their intellectual capacity matches the extent of their typical one line responses and or sorry & sad tails. It's like a cycle that knows not how to read, yet great at preaching snippets text. "Behold ... THOU SHALT ...!!!"


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## Search (Apr 20, 2013)

Ironic that I now read this, having just seen how they closed a thread in the "Spiritual" (specifically Christian [trying to OWN a new term])section with a Bible verse!

The Absolute response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Nothing spiritual about that.


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## TheSkinnyOne (Sep 17, 2015)

If demons exist why is it that only religious people get possessed?


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## BHL 20 (Jul 25, 2014)

You should stop criticizing him and feeling sorry for yourself. If he has regular hallucinations, it's not his fault that he's in such a state.


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## StrongerthanYesterday (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm not so sure about him hearing from God, because that is a little nutty. My grandpa who has dementia would get auditory hallucinations saying that God told him he was going to live to be 100 years old, and outlive all of us... and stuff like that.

He does have a mental illness. He was perfectly sane before the dementia hit..

Whether or not demons/God exist is for up to you to decide.
I personally believe in the existence of God, and demons, however what he is describing about a demon appearing to him is questionable..They don't just "appear" to people like that.. 
It really sounds like he does have a mental illness.


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## TheGuardian (Jun 20, 2015)

"I'm sorry, but once someone starts to talk about seeing demons and hearing voices I can no longer really take what they're saying seriously"

LOL! Agreed, he's either completely delusional or maybe he's just daydreaming about this happening, and being a very religious person, thought it was real.

And he told you that _you_ are narrow minded? He's stuck in believing all that & doesn't consider the possibility of other things. The narrow-minded one is HIM!


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