# non benzo meds



## pdcarpen (Mar 4, 2007)

what are some of the most effective non-xanax, etc meds......? Just curious if I decide to go this route before jumping back into benzos. I know it depends on the person to a degree, and that we've had a discussion on here regarding Buspar not working significantly. How bout Visteral (sp?), etc


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

benzos arent narcotics


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## pdcarpen (Mar 4, 2007)

*re: non narcotic meds*

u know where im going with this..... a non-benzo to be specific


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

beta-blockers


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Vistaril (hydroxyzine) is an antihistamine-type antianxiety medication. I've never tried it, but I've wanted to. I have a pretty high tolerence to most antihistamines, though, so I doubt it would do much for me. It does wonders for some people, though.

Unfortunately, SSRI/SNRI antidepressant medications are probably your main option aside from benzos. There are some old tricylic antidepressants that are sometimes used for anxiety, but they carry the liability of messing with your heart at high doses.

If you feel daring, then some of the strongly sedating antipsychotics could be used to treat anxiety. Thorazine helped my anxiety, but after a while, it also left me drooling and at a loss when it came to remembering the alphabet (I actually miss that, though :b). Haldol is also a sedating antipsychotic, but I don't recall any personal accounts of it from anyone on SAS. I've heard of Seroquel (another antihistaminic agent) being used to control anxiety because it is highly sedating, but there is some concern of the possibility of it being linked to causing diabetes. The same goes for Zyprexa (however, it's not an antihistamine).

Other than that, I would say that benzos are all that's left (with legitimate medical indications for anxiety treatment).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:


> I've heard of Seroquel (another antihistaminic agent) being used to control anxiety because it is highly sedating, but there is some concern of the possibility of it being linked to causing diabetes. The same goes for *Zyprexa*...


Zyprexa is a nasty drug that I'd only suggest to people I don't like. It's infamous for causing weight gain. I put on 25 pounds in just six weeks. My dumb *** GP thought giving such a drug to an already obese man was just a dandy idea (I weighed 246 before starting the drug -- clearly, a drug that is very likely to cause weight gain was the last thing such a patient needs). I'm currently just under 190 four years after Zyprexa.

IMO, antipsychotics have no legitimate use in the treatment of SA (unless you also happen to be bipolar or psychoic as well and need them for that problem). There is an almost total lack of studies to show antipsychotics effective for SA and none are FDA approved for that use, despite a huge economic incentive to get such approval -- this leads me to the obvious conclusion that the drug makers simply can't produce a study showing them effective on SA.


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## pdcarpen (Mar 4, 2007)

thanks guys......anyone had experience w/ beta blockers???

btw, im on 100 mg Zoloft already


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: non benzo meds*



pdcarpen said:


> thanks guys......anyone had experience w/ beta blockers???


Yeah, I've used beta blockers in the past to treat high blood pressure. I've used atenolol & metoprolol. Both certainly bring down BP and pulse rate. That had zero effect on my SA. I no longer use beta blockers as my BP is down due to weight loss now.

Of course, my SA symptoms are mainly mental -- thus I personally found them useless for my SA. If you have "stage fright" type symptoms like blushing & shaking before giving a presentation they are certainly worth a try, given that they are well-tolerated drugs.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

Bottom line: I don't think there's a legitimate substitute for benzos, unless you wanna take alcohol and barbs into consideration. Benzos are one of a kind.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

Bottom line: I don't think there's a legitimate substitute for benzos, unless you wanna take alcohol and barbs into consideration. Benzos are one of a kind.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

UltraShy said:


> korey said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard of Seroquel (another antihistaminic agent) being used to control anxiety because it is highly sedating, but there is some concern of the possibility of it being linked to causing diabetes. The same goes for *Zyprexa*...
> ...


I LOVE Zyprexa, its a life saver for me.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Noca said:


> I LOVE Zyprexa, its a life saver for me.


Note that Noca is 5'10" and only 135.

I'm 6'0" and peaked at 289 due to meds, so we will certainly differ on the merits of Zyprexa. When Sears no longer has jeans that will fit my fat *** and I have to decide if I'd like to wear sweat pants that allow for infinite expansion into morbid obesity, I'm not in a good mood about the meds that put me in such a situation.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Luke, I think pdcarpen wants to stay away from anything with an addiction potential. Barbs and alcohol have a higher addiction potential than benzos, IMO. The chances of someone getting a barb prescription nowadays are slim to none, anyhow. Phenobarbital is the only pure barb I know of that is still prescribed, and even it is mainly used as an anticonvulsant (according to my psychiatrist, at least). Butalbital is the only other barb I know of that is commonly prescribed, but it comes in a preparation known as Fioricet that also contains Tylenol and caffeine (and sometimes codeine) used to treat migraine headaches and back pain. Phenobarbital is CIV and Fioricet is CIII. Most barbs beyond those two are CII and probably not available at your local pharmacy.

As for beta blockers, they are like sugar pills for someone who has naturally low blood pressure like I do. I took about five 10mg tablets of Inderal before a presentation I had to co-present with a partner last semester in biology, and I still had a shakey voice and all the other crap that worsens my anxiety. Beta blockers are good for treating headaches, though. I have a theory that they work somewhat like aspirin via changing the body's blood flow (aspirin thins your blood and beta blockers slow it down), which could alter the pounding of blood into the brain, which is responsible for most of my headaches. That's just a theory, though :b.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

korey said:


> Luke, I think pdcarpen wants to stay away from anything with an addiction potential. Barbs and alcohol have a higher addiction potential than benzos, IMO.


I know, I completely agree, but I think that benzos stand alone in efficacy. So, unless someone does wanna take barbs and alcohol into consideration, there's no way they're gonna find a replacement for benzos (I was just using barbs as emphatical means, since obviously, I don't think anybody could get a script -- not even you, Noca! :b )


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## foxtrot (Feb 17, 2007)

*/*



Noca said:


> UltraShy said:
> 
> 
> > korey said:
> ...


just wondering, why do you love zyprexa noca? im assuming (and maybe i remember you saying it once) it may be because it gives you an appetite boost? (which might be needed considering some of those meds in your sig look like theyd heavily supress appetite!) i ditched it after a few days as it did nothing for my anxiety (the only thing it was rx'd for) and turned me into a barely functional zombie


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Ah The 'Trot is back! Where on earth have you been? Welcome back Mr Chick-Dude!

Ross


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## foxtrot (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: re: non benzo meds*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Ah The 'Trot is back! Where on earth have you been? Welcome back Mr Chick-Dude!
> 
> Ross


still here reguarly, just havent had a lot to contribute lately...
had a big job interview the other day so preparing for that has taken up some time... just found out i was unsuccessful :sigh but at least i handled it reasonably and didnt have a nasty panic attack or 'go mute' so that's a positive! i feel i must qualify your chick-dude comment in case anyone's thinking i have transvestite tendencies! [i previously had an avatar with a rather foxy feline on feature which ross confused with being a photograph of me- that it was not, much to ross's dismay]. cheers for the welcome...


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

I was wrong! My insurance website lists Seconal Sodium 100mg pulvules as a medication covered (only $50 for #60 of them :b), and it's a CII barb, isn't it? It also lists mephobarbital tablets and butalbarbital tablets. These are all under "Sedative-Hypnotic Barbiturates." I wonder who in our network actually has a prescription for these :stu.

</random mumbling>


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

korey said:


> I was wrong! My insurance website lists Seconal Sodium 100mg pulvules as a medication covered (only $50 for #60 of them :b), and it's a CII barb, isn't it? It also lists mephobarbital tablets and butalbarbital tablets. These are all under "Sedative-Hypnotic Barbiturates." I wonder who in our network actually has a prescription for these :stu.
> 
> </random mumbling>


Considering Seconal is a popular drug (alone or in a cocktail) for suicide, I doubt many people have a prescription..


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Nae said:


> korey said:
> 
> 
> > I was wrong! My insurance website lists Seconal Sodium 100mg pulvules as a medication covered (only $50 for #60 of them :b), and it's a CII barb, isn't it? It also lists mephobarbital tablets and butalbarbital tablets. These are all under "Sedative-Hypnotic Barbiturates." I wonder who in our network actually has a prescription for these :stu.
> ...


Enough must have it for them to cover it in the network's medication database. I'm aware that strong barbs like Seconal are popular suicide drugs, but they apparently still serve some legitimate purpose being as they're listed and covered by my insurance.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Antidepressants are option (b). Option (c) is to consider antiepileptic drugs such as Lyrica and Topamax (there are many others), as they sometimes work. There's plenty of other stuff out there, but I can't think of it at the moment. My brain is melting from finals week.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

korey said:


> Nae said:
> 
> 
> > korey said:
> ...


Which is great, IMO. I have lamented over this subject many times in the past, but psychiatry in general is based on trends and not evidence of efficacy. Therefor a drug that may help relieve a persons problems is cutoff simply due to a change in a belief system that rests upon "safer" drugs despite their lack of proven efficacy.

/leaves soapbox


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## pdcarpen (Mar 4, 2007)

go to the doc tomorrow so we'll see


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:



> I was wrong! My insurance website lists Seconal Sodium 100mg pulvules as a medication covered (only $50 for #60 of them :b), and it's a CII barb, isn't it? It also lists mephobarbital tablets and butalbarbital tablets. These are all under "Sedative-Hypnotic Barbiturates." I wonder who in our network actually has a prescription for these :stu.
> 
> </random mumbling>


I think Seconal was/is the most popular drug for assisted suicide in Oregon. Wonder how the label reads? "Take entire bottle by mouth and wait for death" :con


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

lol. I don't think they prescribe pills for physician-assisted suicide. I imagine they deliver the lethal doses by syringe.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:


> lol. I don't think they prescribe pills for physician-assisted suicide. I imagine they deliver the lethal doses by syringe.


I only know how one group in Geneva did it as I read about it years ago in the Wall Street Journal. The patient to die would drink some anti-nausea drug and then 20 minutes later drink a fatal dose of some unspecified barbiturate. The first drug was needed as barb ODs frequently result in vomiting and thus failure, sort of like alcohol ODs.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> korey said:
> 
> 
> > lol. I don't think they prescribe pills for physician-assisted suicide. I imagine they deliver the lethal doses by syringe.
> ...


I've always wondered if that would work...Taking a strong anti-nausea medication before ODing, that is. The only way to get the contents of the stomach out are to induce vomiting through one of those charcoal lavage things, right (or "stomach pumping", though I don't know if it's as it sounds to be)? And if a person's gag reflex has been chemically supressed by an anti-nausea medication, then the charcoal would just remain in their stomach along with whatever they OD on unless there is an injectable chemical antagonist available. I know there is an antagonist for benzos (it's on Wikipedia somewhere), but I don't know about barbs. :stu


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

AFAIK and understand it, korey, stomach pump and charcoal work in two different ways. A stomach pump is where they literally put a tube down your throat and pump water (perhaps a saline solution?) into the stomach which induces vomiting. The charcoal solution is drank as it works by absorbing toxins left in the body that have not been digested yet. You end up taking a big black poop later. Sometimes they combine the two?: Stomach pump, then drink the charcoal. I could be wrong about the details above, but I think they are accurate.

I suppose it depends on what the situation calls for. Whether or not the person is coherent enough to take the charcoal smoothie in replacement of a stomach pump, etc.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

You're right, Nae. I don't know if they're used in combination, though. I wouldn't imagine so being as a stomach pump would flush out the charcoal.



Wikipedia on Activated Carbon (aka charcoal) said:


> Activated carbon is used to treat poisonings and overdoses following oral ingestion. It prevents absorption of the poison by the gastrointestinal tract. In cases of suspected poisoning, medical personnel either administer activated carbon on the scene or at a hospital's emergency department. Dosing is usually empirical at 1 gram/kg of body weight, usually given every 2 hours. Activated carbon has become the treatment of choice for many poisonings, and other decontamination methods such as ipecac induced emesis or stomach pumps are now used rarely.
> 
> Mechanisms of action:
> 
> ...





Wikipedia on Gastric Lavage (aka stomach pump) said:


> Gastric lavage involves the passage of a tube via the mouth or nose down into the stomach, followed by sequential administration and removal of small volumes of liquid. The placement of the tube in the stomach must be confirmed either by air insufflation while listening to the stomach, or by pH testing a small amount of aspirated stomach contents. This is to ensure the tube is not in the lungs. In adults, small amounts of warm water or saline are administered and via a siphoning action removed again. In children, normal saline is used as children are more at risk of developing hyponatremia if lavaged with water. Because of the possibility of vomiting, a suction device is always on hand in case of aspiration of stomach contents. Lavage is repeated until the returning fluid shows no further gastric contents. If the patient is unconscious or cannot protect their airway then the patient should be intubated before performing lavage.


It seems that charcoal is preferred over stomach pumping nowadays.

The more you know ::flying star:: :b


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## nonnarcoticmeds (Aug 1, 2010)

i use hydroxyzine 100mg 3 times a day it is a non narcotic non benzo medication that is fast acting and it works Great it works just about as good as any benzo i prefer it over benzos because benzos are Sooo addictive and im a recovering addict and i think its better than buspar because 1 buspar is not fast acting and 2 buspar made me feel really weird i use neurotin 600mg 3 times a day for my baseline anxiety med and i use hydroxyzine with it and it Works great i went from having anxiety attack everyday multiple times a day to hardly having anxiety attacks at all i might have one once a week if that.Hydroxyzine and neurotin work awesome for anxiety and i would recommend it to anyone who is a recovering addict or anyone who wants to stay away from narcotic/benzos and seeking anxiety meds


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## aspire (May 17, 2013)

*Great stuff for anxiety*

I have a young DO. He prescribed Lyrica for my anxiety, he found out they're prescribing it in Europe. Originally for fibromyalgia, it works on numbing the same nerves. I started taking Welbutrin after a couple months of being on the Lyrica- that freaked me out, tailspin blackness... but, the Lyrica WAS working. I did have suicidal thoughts when my depression was looming over my eyebrows, but I guess I'm still here, so they weren't too bad. hehe

The natural stuff that's worked for my anxiety is Kava Kava (the alcohol tincture), but if you take it excessively it'll shut down your liver. I know all this crap we take will eventually kill us, anyway. Those of us with anxiety. (ominous music)

I smoke weed and I'm an alcoholic, to self medicate. Of course, the next day I have a massive hangover and my anxiety sky rockets. The weed affects my nerves/muscles and leaves me a twitching mess.

Finally, I do something in my head. I replace the negative emotion with a different emotion. We all know anger is a common cuddle buddy with anxiety, so turn that frown upside down, literally. This forcing of emotion is difficult stuff. Lucinda Bassett is the one to learn from on this subject. Her book "From Panic to Power" is most excellent.

Good luck, may you be the Force and be with them.


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