# Reason not to drink caffeine!



## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

*Reasons not to drink caffeine!*

I thought about making a caffeine bashing thread!

Just for the fun of it post your reason for not drinking caffeine here.

I did have like 5 reason premade with actually pub med studies. But unfortunately I hit backspace and it deleted all them at the library.

1. Caffeine inhibits growth hormone and tsh
2. Caffeine raises prolactin
3. Caffeine an gaba antagonist
4. Caffeine does the opposite of Viagra and causes erectile problems
5. Caffeine makes yourself and other people less attractive

Here's some for now I'll update later with studies post your own reason if you want.


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## ninjaslol (Aug 15, 2012)

I will still drink caffeine.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

ninjaslol said:


> I will still drink caffeine.


Well then Sir your no better then any other common drug addict!


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## Farideh (Nov 13, 2011)

Most important reason... Caffeine affects your level of anxiety. I had a big cup of coke yesterday and I just felt like complete crap throughout the rest of the day. So I avoid that and smoking as well... Bad for you.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

It also causes every known type of cancer, makes you age faster, and is linked to neurological problems like prion disease.


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## slider (Feb 9, 2013)

what about green tea? :O


i had read 1 coffee / 5 green teas = you live to more then 100 **** let me do some googly on that.

I could not find it :\

can anyone vouch this?


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

slider said:


> what about green tea? :O
> 
> i had read 1 coffee / 5 green teas = you live to more then 100 **** let me do some googly on that.
> 
> ...


Green tea is bad too. And chocolate.

Chocolate has been shown to make you hate your kids because it contains caffeine.


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## lampshadesonfire (Sep 22, 2013)

The pros outweigh the cons in my humble opinion. I stay away from most stimulants, but caffeine is my anti-depressant. Without it, life would be significantly worse. I am unable to feel like myself or hold a conversation without having had my coffee. It cures me from dwelling in inertia - and studies show it prevents Alzheimer's disease, diabetes and more. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have cancer than Alzheimer's.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

KellyLiterary said:


> The pros outweigh the cons in my humble opinion. I stay away from most stimulants, but caffeine is my anti-depressant. Without it, life would be significantly worse. I am unable to feel like myself or hold a conversation without having had my coffee. It cures me from dwelling in inertia - and studies show it prevents Alzheimer's disease, diabetes and more. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have cancer than Alzheimer's.


Oh I was being sarcastic, caffeine is perfectly fine.


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## lampshadesonfire (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh pardon me, I'm usually fairly good at sensing sarcasm. Still though, I will not stand for people bashing my beloved caffeine!


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## Chris John (Jul 4, 2013)

Sacrieur said:


> Green tea is bad too. And chocolate.
> 
> Chocolate has been shown to make you hate your kids because it contains caffeine.


Whoa! Green tea isn't bad. Depending on the type, green tea has 8-50mg caffeine per cup. If your drinking Lipton, Bigelow, or some other big brand, the caffeine content is on the 30-50mg side. But if you go with loose leaf tea, some varieties are extremely low on caffeine. I was at a tea shop not long ago and was paging through the catalog which had caffeine content listed for each variety. Many of the varieties had under 10mg of caffeine per cup. Also, if you swish the leaves around in hot water for 30 seconds or so, about 80% of the caffeine gets extracted but most of the other compounds in the tea remain. If you choice a green tea variety that has 8mg of caffeine and swish the leaves around in hot water for about 30 seconds, that cup will have 1 or 2 mg of caffeine in. That's nothing!

Also, green tea contains Vitamin C, L-theanine, and polyphenols. L-theanine can cross the blood-brain and raise Gaba and dopamine levels (Though, I have doubts about how much any amino acid can affect the psychy.) Polyphenols are linked with lower rates of many illnessess and diseases such as cancer. Vitamin C has many positive effects, and it's much better to get it, or any vitamin, from food rather than a non-food based supplement. Lastly, green tea raises metabolism and promotes fat oxidization.

Overall, green tea is one of the healthiest substances you can put in your body. Drink away!


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## Chris John (Jul 4, 2013)

Man, I should really read the entire thread before posting. I now see you were being sarcastic. Oh well, lol. Maybe some people will find my post interesting.


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

If caffeine is such a wretched poison, answer me this question: Why is it universally accepted among bodybuilders/ fitness enthusiasts(who are extremely well informed)? And now the facepalming at this thread resumes
.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Billius said:


> If caffeine is such a wretched poison, answer me this question: Why is it universally accepted among bodybuilders/ fitness enthusiasts(who are extremely well informed)? And now the facepalming at this thread resumes
> .


Simple man, it's addictive it generally accepted by the mainsteam and pushed by the goverment to make us all more productive slaves. Of course it can improve preformance tempory any stimulant can do that. But that not the point of this thread.

Caffeine shows the most similarity to cocaine and reinforces cocaine-seeking behavior after elimination of the drug. This finding strengthens the argument that the potential of caffeine dependence is high and awareness of this should be created.

6. Caffeine can worsen memory.

Just gonna post a link to wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_caffeine_on_memory

It has all the positive and negative studies it kinda mixed it can go both way's in the augument.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Caffeine isn't bad for you and even if it was, I wouldn't stop.


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## sas111 (Oct 20, 2010)

Everything is toxic basically..the average person thinks their being healthy by eating a strawberry for example, but those have 50 pesticides and they make you FAT. My diets limited enough, but organic coffee has more benifits than negatives.
I do love the thought of my cup of coffee killing me off tho..if only


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

This is related to 3. Caffeine an gaba antagonist here's the study showing it increasing recepter sensitivity this is pretty much why the withdraws are bad.

*Chronic caffeine alters the density of adenosine, adrenergic, cholinergic, GABA, and serotonin receptors and calcium channels in mouse brain.*

1. Chronic ingestion of caffeine by male NIH strain mice alters the density of a variety of central receptors. 2. The density of cortical A1 adenosine receptors is increased by 20%, while the density of striatal A2A adenosine receptors is unaltered. 3. The densities of cortical beta 1 and cerebellar beta 2 adrenergic receptors are reduced by ca. 25%, while the densities of cortical alpha 1 and alpha 2 adrenergic receptors are not significantly altered. Densities of striatal D1 and D2 dopaminergic receptors are unaltered. The densities of cortical 5 HT1 and 5 HT2 serotonergic receptors are increased by 26-30%. Densities of cortical muscarinic and nicotinic receptors are increased by 40-50%. The density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABAA receptors is increased by 65%, and the affinity appears slightly decreased. The density of cortical MK-801 sites associated with NMDA-glutaminergic receptors appear unaltered. 4. The density of cortical nitrendipine-binding sites associated with calcium channels is increased by 18%. 5. The results indicate that chronic ingestion of caffeine equivalent to about 100 mg/kg/day in mice causes a wide range of biochemical alterations in the central nervous system.

Here another one showing decrease protein synthesis in the brain.

*Rats that consume caffeine show decreased brain protein synthesis.*

The effect of caffeine on protein synthesis in brain and liver was studied. When caffeine was added to a post-mitochondrial supernatant from rat brain protein synthesis was inhibited, i.e. 1 mM caffeine about 20%. The effect on protein synthesis of two weeks administration of large doses of caffeine in the drinking fluid of rats was also measured. Caffeine decreased protein synthesis in rat brain by about 32% and 20% compared with "ad libitum" and pair-fed controls. Protein synthesis was calculated taking into account the levels of free leucine determined by HPLC:0.10 mumol/g brain of "ad libitum"; 0.11 for pair-fed and 0.07 for caffeine. The pattern of proteins synthesized was not significantly altered by caffeine as shown by gel-electrophoresis and fluorography. There was no effect on protein synthesis of liver. The possible significance of these results is briefly discussed


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

I developed caffeine anxiety. One cup of tea and I feel like I might pass out. That's why I don't take it


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

7. Caffeine/Coffee inhibits iron and other minerials from absorbing. Low iron can cause restless legs and low dopamine symptoms.

*Inhibition of food iron absorption by coffee.*

Dual isotope studies were performed in iron replete human subjects to evaluate the effect of coffee on nonheme iron absorption. A cup of coffee reduced iron absorption from a hamburger meal by 39% as compared to a 64% decrease with tea, which is known to be a potent inhibitor of iron absorption. When a cup of drip coffee or instant coffee was ingested with a meal composed of semipurified ingredients, absorption was reduced from 5.88% to 1.64 and 0.97%, respectively, and when the strength of the instant coffee was doubled, percentage iron absorption fell to 0.53%. No decrease in iron absorption occurred when coffee was consumed 1 h before a meal, but the same degree of inhibition as with simultaneous ingestion was seen when coffee was taken 1 h later. In tests containing no food items, iron absorption from NaFeEDTA was diminished to the same extent as that from ferric chloride when each was added to a cup of coffee. These studies demonstrate that coffee inhibits iron absorption in a concentration-dependent fashion.

*The role of iron in restless legs syndrome.*

The impressive relief from restless legs syndrome (RLS) symptoms provided by levodopa treatment indicates RLS is caused by a dopaminergic abnormality. But similar and more lasting relief also occurs for iron treatment in some patients. Thus there are two major putative causes for RLS: CNS dopaminergic abnormality and CNS iron insufficiency. This article presents the data documenting that both peripheral and CNS iron insufficiency occur with RLS symptoms. Brain iron insufficiency is supported by independently replicated cerebrospinal fluid and brain imaging studies for patients without iron deficiency (ID) anemia. Autopsy studies and intravenous iron treatment further link brain iron insufficiency to RLS. The brain iron insufficiency in patients with RLS is now well established. In this article the data are reviewed that support the following postulates combining dopaminergic and iron causes of RLS: (1) All conditions that compromise iron availability will increase the risk of RLS leading to a higher than expected prevalence of RLS in these conditions. (2) Some patients with RLS have marginal CNS iron status that can become insufficient when deprived of normal access to adequate peripheral iron or may be insufficient even with normal access to adequate peripheral iron. (3) The change or reduced CNS iron status produces RLS symptoms largely through its effects on the dopaminergic system and the corollary to 3. (4) Dopaminergic system abnormalities producing RLS symptoms will be included in those produced by brain ID. Study of the iron model of RLS offers hope for developing new treatment approaches and perhaps methods to prevent or cure the disorder.

*Restless legs syndrome: pathophysiology and the role of iron and folate.*

Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS) is a common movement disorder characterized by a circadian variation in symptoms involving an urge to move the limbs, usually the legs. Pregnant women, patients with end-stage renal disease or iron-deficiency anemia, and children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (AD/HD) have a significantly higher prevalence of RLS. The classic presentation includes the onset or worsening of symptoms when at rest and the circadian pattern of exacerbation of symptoms at night. These symptoms reflect a circadian fluctuation of dopamine in the substantia *****. Patients with RLS have lower levels of dopamine in the substantia ***** and respond to iron administration. Iron, as a cofactor in dopamine production, plays a central role in the etiology of RLS. Folic acid administration has also been shown to alleviate the symptoms of RLS and may play a role in the treatment of primary (familial) RLS.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

If you drink enough of it you might go blind. Or something like that.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

GotAnxiety said:


> 4. Caffeine does the opposite of Viagra and causes erectile problems


Is this true or is it some study that some no name hippies did?


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## Mrs Foggyhead (Sep 29, 2013)

Okay, here's my thought on this. I'll probably get bashed and being the timid person I am, I probably wouldn't argue this if I were face to face but......

We're all going to die of something. You can study anything to death (pardon the pun) and get a positive or negative. Yes, coffee happens to be one of the crops grown with the most pesticides, since we get a lot of coffee from other countries that don't have the regulations that we do (US). 

THAT SAID......there's something to be said for Quality of life. For me, if I didn't have my coffee...I drink about 2 mugs a day....my quality of life would take quite a dump. Same with wine. I enjoy red wine. Yes, it's gonna kill me, most likely. Still, a glass or two of wine at dinner enhances my quality of life. I don't drink to get stinkin' drunk either. :mum

So, unless it's illegal, immoral or unethical, let's let live. let those who can tolerate caffeine , enjoy it. Coffee, for many, is just a little slice of paradise and makes the day worth living. Now if my medical provider wanted me off coffee, that would be another thing but for now I shall enjoy every day with my blessed cuppa joe.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

GotAnxiety said:


> ...5. The results indicate that chronic ingestion of caffeine equivalent to about *100 mg/kg/day* in mice causes a wide range of biochemical alterations in the central nervous system....


That's not a realistic study of caffeine. At that rate a 175# man would have to consume about 8,000 mg per day -- about 40 cups of coffee!


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## Dylan2 (Jun 3, 2012)

I'll wade into the muck of yet another caffeine thread.

There are various studies suggesting caffeine has all kinds of benefits. There are also plenty of studies suggesting caffeine can be harmful, at least in rats. I'm not sure what the overall picture of caffeine research looks like, and I think it's misleading to pick out a handful of basic neuroscientific studies on rats as evidence of caffeine's risks. There was also a study on hamburgers and coffee, but is this really a popular combination? Sounds awful 

I avoid caffeine for the same reason that many of my classmates consume it. The benefits to concentration and alertness appear to be more of a relief from withdrawal, rather than an improvement relative to initial baseline. Because I rarely use caffeine, I cannot develop tolerance, so on those occasions when I do use it, I probably get actual benefits relative to baseline.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

UltraShy said:


> That's not a realistic study of caffeine. At that rate a 175# man would have to consume about 8,000 mg per day -- about 40 cups of coffee!


Man those mice must have some tolarance eh. Mice are only 20g in average so. 1kg divided in 20g so 100mg divide by 50 that only 2mg of caffeine for mice.

I guess it not realistic for human at a rate of 100mg/kg But it a good idea of the potential of brain changes and compensation that could happen.


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## Dylan2 (Jun 3, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> I guess it not realistic for human at a rate of 100mg/kg But it a good idea of the potential of brain changes and compensation that could happen.


Perhaps, but only if you're drinking 40 cups of coffee a day. If you take a drug at 10 or 20 times the normal daily dose, you might encounter some problems.


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## catcharay (Sep 15, 2011)

Too much caffeine will affect your quality of sleep, especially if you're already prone to excessive stress and worries. The indirect health problems it can cause is why I'm veering away from it. A lot of processed or artificial anything is not a great idea. It's just common sense right?

I used to drink approx. 2 L of diet/coke zero a day; it was my diet tool. Now I drink a max of 3 - 4 caffeine fueled beverages a day.


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## catcharay (Sep 15, 2011)

Too much caffeine will affect your quality of sleep, especially if you're already prone to excessive stress and worries. The indirect health problems it can cause is why I'm veering away from it. A lot of processed or artificial anything is not a great idea. It's just common sense right?

I used to drink approx. 2 L of diet/coke zero a day; it was my diet tool. Now I drink a max of 3 - 4 caffeine fueled beverages a day. I'm sleeping soo much better now


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## farfegnugen (Aug 16, 2010)

I love caffeine and worship it for its life giving properties.


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## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

Coffee fights diabetes and has antioxidants, it does not make one age faster


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

nubly said:


> Is this true or is it some study that some no name hippies did?


Yes this is true.

Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor and causes narrowing of the blood vessel.

Viagra is a vasodilator and causes widening of the blood vessels.

Caffeine also alters hormones and neurotransmitters that influence libido.


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

Show me the methodology behind the studies you quoted. This thread looks like another one of the ill conceived witch-hunts this subforum is becoming notorious for. You won't find the magic bullet in you kitchen or your supermarket, you will find it in yourself. If the vasoconstriction was at all significant bbers wouldn't use it, they love the pump. Seems like these bad things caffeine does are like grains in a pile of sand, you aren't going to notice just a few either way.


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## Overthinker80 (Jun 19, 2013)

GotAnxiety said:


> I thought about making a caffeine bashing thread!
> 
> Just for the fun of it post your reason for not drinking caffeine here.
> 
> ...


I have some reasons I might post later and I want to quit also but:

1) How the hell does caffeine make you and others unattractive? I don't find this to be true.

2) Caffeine has never given me erectile problems and I don't think it is proven that it does.

3) What do points 1-3 mean??

Overall, caffeine is in some ways healthy, but I have my own reasons I want to cut down to a cup a day that I'll get into when I'm not so tired.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

Caffeine spider's a little whacked.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

GotAnxiety said:


> Yes this is true.
> 
> Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor and causes narrowing of the blood vessel.
> 
> ...


Quick google search revealed that average dose of caffeine enhances love making but too much will cause ED. Sigh, bye bye tub of morning coffee.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

AlchemyFire said:


> Caffeine spider's a little whacked.


Actually this one was kinda funny. But it got me thinking how caffeine can mess with are creativity and prevent us from being spontaneous with are thinking. Certainly it looks like that spider had some anxiety making that web. Normally that web would be more solid.


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## NotMyFaultInOurStars (Mar 9, 2013)

Coffee is the elixir or life  Or the real life Phoenix downs.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Studies for article one

1. Caffeine inhibits growth hormone and tsh

*Effects of caffeine on anterior pituitary and thyroid function in the rat.*

We studied the effects of acute, intraperitoneal administration of caffeine on serum thyrotropin (TSH), growth hormone, prolactin, thyroxine and 3,3',5-triiodothyronine in rats. Caffeine lowered serum TSH and GH in a dose-dependent manner with ED50 values of 30 and approximately 50 mg/kg, respectively. TSH levels were depressed 1 to 6 hr after injection and correlated with serum caffeine levels greater than 20 micrograms/ml. The decrease in serum TSH was followed by decreases in serum 3,3',5-triiodothyroxine and thyroxine 4 hr after caffeine administration. Theophylline and theobromine had effects similar to those of caffeine on hormone levels. Caffeine did not significantly affect hormone secretion when incubated directly with rat pituitaries in vitro. Administration of antisomatostatin antiserum to rats blocked the inhibitory effects of caffeine on serum GH levels, suggesting that caffeine inhibits GH and TSH secretion by releasing hypothalamic somatostatin.

*Effect of caffeine on thyroid and pituitary function in newborn rats.*

The possibility that caffeine, a central nervous system stimulant used in neonatal apnea, may produce acute or chronic changes in growth hormone (GH), thyroxine (T4) and thyrotropin (TSH) was studied in the newborn rat. Five-day-old rats were separated into three groups: control (0) group receiving saline, Group I (low dose caffeine) receiving 5 mg/kg and Group II (high dose caffeine) receiving 50 mg/kg. Acute effects were studied at 2, 4, and 24 h after injection. Chronic effects were studied 24 h after the last of 10 daily injections. GH, T4, and TSH were measured by radioimmunoassay and caffeine by high pressure liquid chromatograph. GH was increased at all times and all doses after a single injection of caffeine. After chronic therapy, the increase in GH was small, suggesting depletion of pituitary reserve. A high dose of caffeine had a biphasic effect on T4 with an increase at 4 h and a decrease at 24 h. Thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH)-induced TSH release at 24 h was not influenced by caffeine administration. Chronic caffeine therapy stimulated both T4 and TSH; however, TRH-stimulated TSH release was decreased, suggesting that chronic therapy may blunt pituitary TSH response.


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

^Facepalm, I'm not even going to bother to point out all the holes in that one.


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## Dylan2 (Jun 3, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> Caffeine lowered serum TSH and GH in a dose-dependent manner with ED50 values of 30 and approximately *50 mg/kg*, respectively.





GotAnxiety said:


> *Five-day-old rats* were separated into three groups: control (0) group receiving saline, Group I (low dose caffeine) receiving 5 mg/kg and Group II (high dose caffeine) *receiving 50 mg/kg*.


No more studies of rats getting excessive doses of caffeine 

None of us are five-day-old rats and none of us drink 20 or 40 cups of coffee a day (I hope).


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Alright heres one not done on rat's.

Im pretty sure I can pull another rat study outta my sleeve. i'm still looking for that prolactin one it a ***** to find.

8. Caffeine increases cortisol and is catabolic for bodybuilding.

*Dose effect of caffeine on testosterone and cortisol responses to resistance exercise*

*INTRODUCTION: *

Interest in the use of caffeine as an ergogenic aid has increased since the International Olympic Committee lifted the partial ban on its use. Caffeine has beneficial effects on various aspects of athletic performance, but its effects on training have been neglected.
*PURPOSE: *

To investigate the acute effect of caffeine on the exercise-associated increases in testosterone and cortisol in a double-blind crossover study.
*METHODS: *

Twenty-four professional rugby-league players ingested caffeine doses of 0, 200, 400, and 800 mg in random order 1 hr before a resistance-exercise session. Saliva was sampled at the time of caffeine ingestion, at 15-min intervals throughout each session, and 15 and 30 min after the session. Data were log-transformed to estimate percent effects with mixed modeling, and effects were standardized to assess magnitudes.
*RESULTS: *

Testosterone concentration showed a small increase of 15% (90% confidence limits, +/- 19%) during exercise. Caffeine raised this concentration in a dose-dependent manner by a further small 21% (+/- 24%) at the highest dose. The 800-mg dose also produced a moderate 52% (+/- 44%) increase in cortisol. The effect of caffeine on the testosterone:cortisol ratio was a small decline (14%; +/- 21%).
*CONCLUSION: *

Caffeine has some potential to benefit training outcomes via the anabolic effects of the increase in testosterone concentration, but this benefit might be counteracted by the opposing catabolic effects of the increase in cortisol and resultant decline in the testosterone:cortisol ratio.


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

even 5mg/kg for me is 400mgs of caffeine aka about 5 espressos is much more that 99% have at once, it's been quite some time since I last did it. Low dose? I hardly think so


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

9.* Caffeine attenuates acute growth hormone response to a single bout of resistance **exercise*

Okay this one a good link here it has a graph and chart's it way to big to post on here

i'll just post the link.

http://www.jssm.org/vol9/n2/14/v9n2-14pdf.pdf


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## joseph17 (Oct 1, 2013)

Billius said:


> If caffeine is such a wretched poison, answer me this question: Why is it universally accepted among bodybuilders/ fitness enthusiasts(who are extremely well informed)? And now the facepalming at this thread resumes
> .


Most competitive bodybuilders aren't healthy at all so it's not good to look at them for advice. Their goal is size not health. As for caffeine, I pretty much gave up coffee because it gives me too many GI troubles. Instead of coffee, I now have tea every morning and I take half of a caffeine pill (half is equal to one cup of coffee) on days I work out.


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## Overthinker80 (Jun 19, 2013)

GotAnxiety said:


> Studies for article one
> 
> 1. Caffeine inhibits growth hormone and tsh
> 
> ...


Whatever this says I can't understand it.

English please!!

I have to admit I have a problem with coffee/caffeine.

My deal is that I drink about 3-4 cups in the morning and 2-3 in the afternoon or I feel like ****, tired and moody.

Then I can't fall asleep without taking a higher dose of melatonin than I should which leaves me groggy the next day so I drink more coffee and it goes in circles.

The biggest problem is that I get MORE tired cause I drink so much.

Not sure all the reasons why, less REM is probably one, but even AFTER I've had my caffeine fix I often feel like complete ****...not just tired in a normal way but in a POISONED way, and it's hard to explain.

It also makes me more anxious.

Whenever I've kept it to under 3 cups a day I don't feel bad like this but I'm both too psychologically and too physically addicted to cut down and I've tried many times.

Also, I do martial arts and when I drink a lot of coffee I fatigue VERY VERY easily, my muscles burn out and I can't push as hard as I can without it.

Don't know the reasons why but one I've heard is that it tenses your muscles up too much so you fatigue more easily.

It also lowers my blood sugar and i need gatorade when I do martial arts.

All in all the combo of excessive caffeine and excessive melatonin leaves me tired all the time searching for more natural energy and makes me feel like I need 10 or more hours of sleep a night to feel refreshed.

Quitting COMPLETELY doesn't seem realistic to me but I REALLY want to get it down to 1-2 cups a day MAX and I know I'd feel so much better if I could cause I always did any of the other times I broke the addiction.

I hope to start DBT/CBT therapy soon and hope it helps me accomplish this.


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

joseph17 said:


> Most competitive bodybuilders aren't healthy at all so it's not good to look at them for advice. Their goal is size not health. As for caffeine, I pretty much gave up coffee because it gives me too many GI troubles. Instead of coffee, I now have tea every morning and I take half of a caffeine pill (half is equal to one cup of coffee) on days I work out.





> 8. Caffeine increases cortisol and is catabolic for bodybuilding.


While that(the health thing) may or may not be true(I was referring to the more sensible gym junkie type btw) it's a clear demonstration of the falseness of claims that it messes with hormones or is catabolic in any _significant_ way.


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## Chris John (Jul 4, 2013)

In the OP, you listed that caffeine makes other less attractive. After I drink coffee, I find myself much more drawn to people and even find girls more attractive. I think it's because of the DA increase.

I don't know how I feel about caffeine. Probably better off without it.

One thing people often don't realize is that caffeine makes you feel worse once it leaves your system and tolerance to it develops. So if you've been drinking caffeine for a while, the caffeine might just be bringing you back near baseline.

Like all stimulants and short acting drugs, if you drink caffeine it's best to do it very sparingly or consistently. Otherwise, expect to be yanked from high to low.


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## TeenyBeany (Sep 3, 2008)

GotAnxiety said:


> 7. Caffeine/Coffee inhibits iron and other minerials from absorbing. Low iron can cause restless legs and low dopamine symptoms.
> 
> *Inhibition of food iron absorption by coffee.*
> 
> Dual isotope studies were performed in iron replete human subjects to evaluate the effect of coffee on nonheme iron absorption. A cup of coffee reduced iron absorption from a hamburger meal by 39% as compared to a 64% decrease with tea, which is known to be a potent inhibitor of iron absorption. When a cup of drip coffee or instant coffee was ingested with a meal composed of semipurified ingredients, absorption was reduced from 5.88% to 1.64 and 0.97%, respectively, and when the strength of the instant coffee was doubled, percentage iron absorption fell to 0.53%. No decrease in iron absorption occurred when coffee was consumed 1 h before a meal, but the same degree of inhibition as with simultaneous ingestion was seen when coffee was taken 1 h later. In tests containing no food items, iron absorption from NaFeEDTA was diminished to the same extent as that from ferric chloride when each was added to a cup of coffee. These studies demonstrate that coffee inhibits iron absorption in a concentration-dependent fashion.


Question for you! Is this due to the coffee bean, or due to caffeine? Sorry! Just need clarification as I do enjoy a cup of DECAF from time to time


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## Overthinker80 (Jun 19, 2013)

The OP still hasn't spelled out in plain English what he means by any of these claims.

Most of all the "less attractive" comment is bizarre.

So...if I've drank less coffee somehow I appear less attractive to the opposite sex???

How on EARTH does that work?

How do they even know I've had any coffee?

do my facial features change to more ugly ones after drinking coffee? LOL

And I know for damn sure I find women every bit as attractive with or without coffee.

VERY odd and CLEARLY false statement.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

TeenyBeany said:


> Question for you! Is this due to the coffee bean, or due to caffeine? Sorry! Just need clarification as I do enjoy a cup of DECAF from time to time


Both the tannings in tea and coffee plus the caffeine inhibit iron absorbtion


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> Both the tannings in tea and coffee plus the caffeine inhibit iron absorbtion


Tannins you mean and there is no tannin in coffee, it was asserted beyond doubt recently. I don't have time right now to find the study


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Dylan2 said:


> Perhaps, but only if you're drinking 40 cups of coffee a day. If you take a drug at 10 or 20 times the normal daily dose, you might encounter some problems.


This is a problem with many studies where rodents are fed totally insane amounts of whatever and then the results are reported as if they're of actual relevance.

Dosage makes all the difference in the world. If you drink 2 glasses of wine with dinner you're going to be just fine. Make that 20 glasses a night and then you're an alcoholic who's likely to run into some serious health problems. Same substance, only changing the dosage, but that change produces polar opposite results.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

10. Coffee and inflammation

*Associations between coffee consumption and inflammatory markers in healthy persons: the ATTICA study.*

*BACKGROUND: *

The effect of coffee consumption on the cardiovascular system is conflicting. Inflammation is important to the development of cardiovascular disease (CVD), and several dietary factors are thought to exert significant effects on inflammation and thus on the risk of CVD.
*OBJECTIVE: *

We aimed to investigate the associations between coffee consumption and inflammatory markers.
*DESIGN: *

The cross-sectional survey enrolled 1514 men (x +/- SD age: 46 +/- 13 y; range: 18-87 y) and 1528 women (aged 45 +/- 13 y; range: 18-89 y). Five percent of men and 3% of women were excluded for history of CVD. Fasting blood samples were collected. Dietary habits (including consumption of various types of coffee) were evaluated by using a validated food-frequency questionnaire.
*RESULTS: *

Compared with coffee nondrinkers, men who consumed >200 mL coffee/d had 50% higher interleukin 6 (IL-6), 30% higher C-reactive protein (CRP), 12% higher serum amyloid-A (SAA), and 28% higher tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) concentrations and 3% higher white blood cell (WBC) counts (all: P < 0.05). Women who consumed >200 mL coffee/d had 54% higher IL-6, 38% higher CRP, 28% higher SAA, and 28% higher TNF-alpha concentrations and 4% higher WBC counts (all: P < 0.05) than did coffee nondrinkers. The findings were significant even after control for the interactions between coffee consumption and age, sex, smoking, body mass index, physical activity status, and other covariates.
*CONCLUSIONS: *

A relation exists between moderate-to-high coffee consumption and increased inflammation process. This relation could explain, in part, the effect of increased coffee intake on the cardiovascular system.


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## Overthinker80 (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok, obviously I'm the only one who finds these abstract studies difficult to follow and would rather someone spell this stuff out in simple terms.

I'm very good at understanding detailed language but when the majority of a paragraph looks like this:

25% women TNB 2/3 ratio carbondioxide >> inflammation in 13.2% men aged under 26 + teens (ADF) < molecules absorbed in bloodstream by half life metabolites increased in daily dosage (CPR) = + / user showed inhibition in lateral cortex 42.66 % of time (DXY) Alpha < lab rats studies in vitro showed no build up of testosterone accept in placebo found to be insignificant PNR (>#1-102) theta/delta/gamma--- trace amounts partially metabolized in apes in conjunction with menopause beta waves (alpha/omega) + SSRIs combined w/ 86% of users finding no substantial cross of the blood brain barrier times 10 but only in (DHXYZ)...

Yeah...when it looks like that, I don't get it LOL...


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## 141079 (Mar 12, 2013)

Huh.. there are things much worse than caffeine. Caffeine helps me to not fall asleep in the morning, helps me to study from time to time, helps me to survive late afternoons after a hard day at school...thank god for caffeine..Posting here walls of text about how caffeine is bad...what isn't unhealthy these days? You might as well post walls of text about sugar, sweets, McDonald's food, staying up late, damn just about anything! You only live once, enjoy what you like, unless it's something like drugs, but caffeine is alright...Imo  )


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## max87 (Aug 7, 2010)

I only have one cup of coffee a day... is that bad?
Oh and i also drink one coke a day (500 mililiters). Hope that doesn't affect me even more.


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## Billius (Aug 7, 2012)

max87 said:


> I only have one cup of coffee a day... is that bad?
> Oh and i also drink one coke a day (500 mililiters). Hope that doesn't affect me even more.


It's not bad at all, you'll be well fine. I've decided the scare mongering in this thread makes me angry :roll


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## hdth (Jun 12, 2013)

caffine is such a light drug I dont think any of those problems would be all that major


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## Dylan2 (Jun 3, 2012)

hdth said:


> caffine is such a light drug I dont think any of those problems would be all that major


They are very serious problems if you happen to be a five-day-old rat!


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Hey quit knocking those rat studies! Some rats gave there lifes making those!!

I'm not trying to be a fear monger this is just simple reasons why not to partake in drinking caffeine. 

Moderation with everything 1-2 cups of coffee is fine or 2-4+ cup's of tea. Depending on your tolarance level nothing is concrete. Try keeping it to the morning hours no later then 10-12ish if you can or earlier. That will improve sleep.

I've been trying to quit lately. I've been caught in a fog almost its effecting me negatively like how quiting smoking can minus some of the emotional problems but they are still there. 

Maybe even cycling caffeine might be more beneifital for working out given the adaptation of the brain the next day without caffeine it might be more prime for growth.

I'm gonna give it up for a bit and see if I can handle without. It's a lot of downtime and effort to go without. I guess I could even say I've been feeling depressed without. But with even having caffeine the tolarance was bumming me out to.

Drinking one hour before a meal or 2 hours after a meal will negate the iron inhibition effect.

Now will give 10 minutes of silences for those rats that died.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

OP that's really nitpicking the other effects of caffeine. It's not terribly significant or important for healthy people. Eating a potato will also increase inflammation markers, in more significant amounts.

Caffeine has quite the positive effect, but not recommended for people with anxiety. IMO the worst part about caffeine is the disruption of normal sleep cycle (in some people, not everyone suffers from this).


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## DaydreamBeliever10 (Feb 12, 2012)

I can't stand coffee and I don't like coke. I very rarely drink tea and I'm trying to cut out chocolate as it has dairy in it and my body doesn't like that. I drink water more than anything, it helps with weight loss and hydration but the rate my anxiety and depression is getting worse I may as well be streamlining caffeine lol. I think I would be 10x worse if I could tolerate coffee but that's just me.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Where's the dislike button?


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## GMR21 (Sep 14, 2013)

Lol I would die of Dr. Pepper withdraw XD can't leave my Dr. Pepper. My soul will stay healthy.


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