# SAD and Relationships/Sex



## JasonAnthony31 (Feb 25, 2006)

Guys,

Being that Socail Anxiety Disorder makes it extremely difficult to develop and to explore relationships with the opposite sex, how do you cope with the obvious sexual/romantic frustrations that result from not being able to date, have a girlfriend, or start a relationship? This is something that I deal with all the time; especially when I go out to places and I see so many couples walking hand in hand and enjoying each other. Some days I feel like I'm going to die without ever experiencing true love.


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## socialbutterfly (Feb 17, 2006)

i feel exactly the same way!! its happening for everyone around me but there just must be something so unappealing about me that repells people. the answer to your question: i dont deal with it.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

One thing that helped me was to understand how our society constantly gives us the message that, in order to be complete and worthwhile human beings, we have to be coupled. Society gives us the message that if we are by ourselves, there is something wrong with us. 

I just don't think that's true. 

Of course, there's no cure for feeling genuine loneliness, except to honor that need for relationship by learning how to be close to people and searching for it. 

But that's different than feeling inferior because you're by yourself, "less than" people with boyfriends/girlfriends. That's a crock of BS, imo.


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## RX2000 (Jan 25, 2004)

I would say that like 99% of the time its really your own feelings of lonliness that make you sad that you dont have a gf/bf, and not because you are scared of what society thinks of you...


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## Redox (Jan 20, 2006)

I agree, RX2000. It sucks!


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## JasonAnthony31 (Feb 25, 2006)

LittleZion said:


> One thing that helped me was to understand how our society constantly gives us the message that, in order to be complete and worthwhile human beings, we have to be coupled. Society gives us the message that if we are by ourselves, there is something wrong with us.
> 
> I just don't think that's true.
> 
> ...


I agree that being alone and not in a relationship is nothing to be ashamed of and it doesn't make you inferior. However, the problem for me - along with many others - is that I(we) long for a relationship and have an immense desire/need to get close to someone; we just have too many fears and insecurities to put ourselves in a position to where we could pursue that. Nothing wrong with being alone. But if you don't want to be alone and you are, then that is a huge problem.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

JasonAnthony31 said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > One thing that helped me was to understand how our society constantly gives us the message that, in order to be complete and worthwhile human beings, we have to be coupled. Society gives us the message that if we are by ourselves, there is something wrong with us.
> ...


I agree. I was just coming from the position of remembering that, for me, part of what added to the misery of that (legitimate) loneliness was the feeling that I was less of a person because I was single rather than coupled. I had to fight against that idea pretty hard before I got loose of it.


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## User (Mar 20, 2004)

I've been thinking about this all day.

Yesterday, I went running at sunrise and as I was coming up my street I noticed a young guy (maybe a couple years older than me) sitting on the stoop with his arm around a girl, presumably the morning after. I actually watched them for a few minutes through one of the windows on my front door.

Nothing like throwing a few more telephone books onto the fire of self loathing.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

I wonder where you are supposed to meet someone you like. 
The people i sometimes hang out with don't know any girls and i don't have girls in my College courses. I go to bars/clubs sometimes but those are not the places where you meet a partner.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

JasonAnthony31 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Being that Socail Anxiety Disorder makes it extremely difficult to develop and to explore relationships with the opposite sex, how do you cope with the obvious sexual/romantic frustrations that result from not being able to date, have a girlfriend, or start a relationship? This is something that I deal with all the time; especially when I go out to places and I see so many couples walking hand in hand and enjoying each other. Some days I feel like I'm going to die without ever experiencing true love.


In my case I just lost interest in it. I used to want to have a girlfriend and everything, until I realized that it was just society making me think that. One day I just literally snapped out of it and thought, "Hey...I don't want to get married. I don't want to date. What's the point?" and from that time on I haven't really looked back.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I don't focus on a relationship. My first priority is to overcome the SA part and just have friendships. The dating thing comes in later.


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## Chubz (Aug 29, 2004)

I want to be in relationships badly but I fail at even finding someone to be in one with, much less getting one to work.

Every time I see other people my age in relationships (16-17) it kills me... I prefer to just try to ignore them as best as possible and just get out of wherever I'm currently at ASAP so that I won't have to witness it too much... it's almost like running away from the pain.


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## Secretive (Feb 5, 2006)

Zephyr said:


> JasonAnthony31 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys,
> ...


I do agree with this. To be honest I'm not sure what I want anymore. I felt like this as well but felt/feel like I'm always having to defend myself to married people cause they treat me l ike I'm adnormal. As if you are a woman you must want to get married you must want to have a child you must not want to be single forever.But I feel like there is something missing in my life is it the companionship we are made for (???) or is it cause I'm so screwed up with the S.A. :stu


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## Dr_Funkenstein (Jan 26, 2006)

> I agree that being alone and not in a relationship is nothing to be ashamed of and it doesn't make you inferior. However, the problem for me - along with many others - is that I(we) long for a relationship and have an immense desire/need to get close to someone; we just have too many fears and insecurities to put ourselves in a position to where we could pursue that. Nothing wrong with being alone. But if you don't want to be alone and you are, then that is a huge problem.


I used to be in the situation described above. But finally I got fed up with it and registered at match.com thinking it was a better avenue for me than going to bars or clubs or trying to hit on complete strangers. That was in January.

Now, in March, at 33 I finally have my first girlfriend. I haven't told her I have SP nor have I told her she is the first woman I've ever dated. Although we have a great rapport and I feel about as comfortable as I could be expected to feel around her, there are little things in my behavior that betray my complete lack of experience. They mostly revolve around kissing.

Last night was an interesting example. We chilled out over her house. First time I'd ever been over there. She lives alone so it was just her and I in the house. We snuggled on the couch as we watched a couple of dvds. Having this beautiful, sexy woman nestled all up on me was a great feeling. I felt perfectly at ease. But then the dvds were over and she looked up at me like she wanted to make out and maybe even have sex. We kissed a little bit but eventually I pulled away. Right now sex is probably the biggest barrier for me yet to conquer. I fear being totally inept - not knowing what to do, how to do it.

It is a testament to our relationship that the ride home did not feel at all awkward. We talked very shortly on the phone later that night. That was fine. I intend to call her later today and explain to her that it takes me some time for me to find my comfort level with women and that's why I pulled away. That she needs to be patient with me. I expect her to accept it because we get along that well but that's just an example of of someone attempting to deal with the type of anxieties that SP can bring into a romantic relationship.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I do feel lonely, but I don't really want to date. Being vulnerable scares me and I'm uncomfortable around everyone. It would be nice to not be so bored, but I don't think I will ever be comfortable with forming a relationship with anyone. It doesn't seem possible.


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## Dr_Funkenstein (Jan 26, 2006)

Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> I do feel lonely, but I don't really want to date. Being vulnerable scares me and I'm uncomfortable around everyone. It would be nice to not be so bored, but I don't think I will ever be comfortable with forming a relationship with anyone. It doesn't seem possible.


Break it down into small steps. That's what I did. Of course, it took years to get where I am today but at least I'm here.

If there's a girl you like then challenge yourself to make eye contact with her. That's it, just eye contact, nothing else. After that challenge yourself to look at her and say hi, no conversation, just hi. Then challenge yourself to engage her in a little small talk. You have to take baby steps and you have to do it over and over.

Trust me, if you let this get the better of you then you will regret it when you get older. Like I said in my previous post in this thread, I'm 33 and just started dating. The first date I ever went on about a month ago couldn't have gone any better. The woman, now my girlfriend, had no clue I suffered from SA. It went so smoothly it made me look back and wonder what I was so scared of all those years. I truly regret waiting so long to challenge my anxieties. Of course, there are challenges like I described a few posts up but it's worth facing them.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

> The woman, now my girlfriend, had no clue I suffered from SA. It went so smoothly it made me look back and wonder what I was so scared of all those years. I truly regret waiting so long to challenge my anxieties. Of course, there are challenges like I described a few posts up but it's worth facing them.


I'm curious if you are planning on telling her about your SA.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> I do feel lonely, but I don't really want to date. Being vulnerable scares me and I'm uncomfortable around everyone. It would be nice to not be so bored, but I don't think I will ever be comfortable with forming a relationship with anyone. It doesn't seem possible.


Yeah. Having a girlfriend just seems like a totally impossible concept to me. I'm not even sure what I'd do with one. I've hardly ever interacted with girls my whole life.


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## Dr_Funkenstein (Jan 26, 2006)

Johnny_Genome said:


> > The woman, now my girlfriend, had no clue I suffered from SA. It went so smoothly it made me look back and wonder what I was so scared of all those years. I truly regret waiting so long to challenge my anxieties. Of course, there are challenges like I described a few posts up but it's worth facing them.
> 
> 
> I'm curious if you are planning on telling her about your SA.


Only if I absolutely had to. Like if she found out I had no previous girlfriends and wanted to know why. Then my back would be up against the wall. But outside of that, no. Up to recently my SA mostly affected my romantic relationships or lack thereof. I can interact with people ok on a platonic level. I don't have many real friends - one best friend I've known for decades and many acquaintances but I can operate socially ok, not great, just ok.

I pray to God the day never comes that I would have to reveal my SA to her. Frankly, it's humiliating to be this old and never have had any prior relationships. That's why I urge the rest of y'all to challenge your anxieties bit by bit. Chip away at them and maybe one day the concept of having a girlfriend won't seem nearly so alien. Hell, a year ago it seemed a far off possiblity for me.


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## Michael1973 (May 25, 2005)

Johnny_Genome, I envy you for finding a girlfriend, as I am almost the same age as you and have never dated either. May I ask how you met her? I would like to attempt to meet someone online, but I'm terrified of little things like her finding out about my lack of experience. My fears always get in the way of doing things I really want to try, and I'm curious as to how you've dealt with it.


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## liquid paper (Mar 3, 2006)

> I pray to God the day never comes that I would have to reveal my SA to her. Frankly, it's humiliating to be this old and never have had any prior relationships.


I urge you not to do this. You can't possibly have a real relationship with someone without being open and that includes being open about your past relationships or lack of. I was in the same situation and completely screwed up my first relationship by thinking i had to hide all this, and he liked me a lot but did not know how to be with someone who could not be open. After we broke up, I told him EVERYTHING and he laughed when I said I was scared to tell him my lack of dating experience. He said, why would I want to be with a girl who has been with a bunch of other guys. I thought it was a huge issue and it wasn't. By talking about it, you can get past your insecurity and into the relationship.

I didn't know the term "social anxiety" back then and I really wished I had because I would have straight out said it and that would have solved half my problems. It was the blow up of this relationship over me not being open enough that caused me to confront my SA, and now I'm not even sure I have it. I'm so open these days I probably say things I shouldn't.


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

Michael1973 said:


> Johnny_Genome, I envy you for finding a girlfriend, as I am almost the same age as you and have never dated either. May I ask how you met her? I would like to attempt to meet someone online, but I'm terrified of little things like her finding out about my lack of experience. My fears always get in the way of doing things I really want to try, and I'm curious as to how you've dealt with it.


I wish that was me, but alas it is the great Dr. Funkenstein you speak of and should envy.


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## Dr_Funkenstein (Jan 26, 2006)

Michael1973 said:


> Johnny_Genome, I envy you for finding a girlfriend, as I am almost the same age as you and have never dated either. May I ask how you met her? I would like to attempt to meet someone online, but I'm terrified of little things like her finding out about my lack of experience. My fears always get in the way of doing things I really want to try, and I'm curious as to how you've dealt with it.


I assume you're referring to me and not the person I was quoting. To answer your question, I registered at match.com back in January and she was one of the first women that contacted me. I was very fortunate during my experience both at match.com and Yahoo! Personals that once I put my profile up I got a good amount of responses from quality women. From what I've read of others experiences this is not the norm for men. Usually they have to pursue a number of women on their own before they get anything really going. I don't know exactly what to credit with my success. I had some really strong, flattering pictures posted and I also put a lot of thought and time into my profile to make sure it was interesting to read but also reflected who I was. Unfortunately (or fortunately, however you look at it), I cancelled my subscription since I met my girlfriend but I did save my html profile page on my hard drive if any of you contemplating this want to look at it to see what i did. Send me a private message and I'll send it to you.

Getting to the point where I was comfortable putting up a profile on a site like match.com was a long journey, though, with many frustrations along the way. You could say I chipped away at my anxieties bit by bit over the years. A couple of years ago success for me was just talking to a woman I was attracted to. That has always been the focus of my anxieties. Even if I knew a woman was attracted to me I still found it virtually impossible to approach her. I felt she would recognize my inexperience and humiliate me.

One thing I was good at, however, was flirting with my eyes. I was unafraid of making eye contact with women and I would frequently do it to gauge whether or not a woman was potentially interested in me. It was my comfort in that area that gave me a starting point in working towards overcoming my SA. If I was attracted to a woman I'd let her know just through the way I made eye contact with her. Having done that the next step was talking to her. If making eye contact was easy then this was the part I dreaded.

In the beginning I bumbled and stumbled. I remember there was this one woman who was at my work but in a different department. My place of employment at that time was very large but I could count on seeing this woman once a week in the cafeteria room where I took my breaks. She had already known I was interested in her because of the way I looked at her and from the way she responded I took it that she reciprocated my interest. Still, me being the man, it was up to me to make the move. For what seemed to be the longest time I found it impossible to go over and speak to her even though I was certain she returned my interest in her. Eventually I did bring myself to speak to her but only as she was leaving and thus, we were only able to exchange a few words to each other in passing. We never had anything resembling a real conversation. Eventually, I became embarassed whenever she was around because of this. Who is this headcase that looks at me but has barely spoken to me after weeks and weeks, I thought that she must be thinking to herself. I really beat myself up over that one.

Approximately four years later (2001) I would try again with a different girl. Same job but this girl worked in my department so I saw her on my lunch break at least once every day. This girl was some piece of work. My MO with her was the same as with everyone else. I thought she was attractive so I would let my gaze linger on her and I wouldn't look away quickly when our eyes met. She loved it that I paid so much attention to her. For weeks, probably even months, we never spoke verbally to each other but almost had our own nonverbal language of looks and body language. She liked that I looked at her and I liked that she liked that I looked at her.

After awhile, though, I think I got bored of it and wanted to move to the next level so I challenged myself to speak to her. On one of my breaks I sat near where she usually sat (we used to sit on opposite ends of the room). When she came up for her break I started a conversation with her, completely catching her off guard. I was so proud of myself. It was the first time I had engaged a girl I was attracted to in a real conversation. Over the next few weeks we talked regularly once a day on our breaks. It ended with her revealing that she already had a boyfriend after acting for months in a way that led me to believe she was available. I was pissed and barely spoke to her after that. But I still had the accomplishment of having talked to her.

Fast forward four years to 2005 and I'm back in school. There's a girl in one of my classes that's damn fine but about seven or eight years younger than I am. I'm 32 at the time. I do my thing and flirt with her with my eyes a little bit. I get the impression she's interested. In class she usually sits either next to me or in front of me so there's the opportunity to talk and we do regularly but in this situation the problem is my unease in flirting with words and actions outside of how I look at someone from across the room. I'm kind of formal with her. Stiff. I don't know how to be suave and smooth and I'm hyper aware of it. I'm also spooked by the incidental things like if I pass her in the hall on a break do I look at her and smile or do I make a little comment? I wind up looking down at the ground and not even acknowledging I saw her. Yeah, that'll make her warm to me. By the end of the academic quarter I haven't come anywhere close to asking for her phone number. She graduates that quarter and that's that. Another 'what if' to speculate on in a long list of possible relaltionships that I felt should have been in my life but were thwarted by my anxieties.

In late 2005 comes the tipping point. I'm in Boston Market eating a meal and I catch sight of a knockout professionally dressed woman in line. Now I'm a poor college student at the time with no car, no steady income living in a studio type apartment with a futon sofa that folds out into a bed so this woman to me is clearly out of my league. But since she is so damn fine I do what I always do out of habit, I let my gaze linger on her if, for nothing else, just to take in her beauty and if she should look my way and our eyes meet I'll keep on looking and see what she does. Well, she does look my way. And our eyes do meet. And I keep on looking. And then something totally mindblowing happens that I absolutely wasn't prepared for. She looks away but then a little later she looks back in my direction. And then she does it again. Oh my God she's flirting with me! Now I start to get nervous. The only women I've ever approached in my life have been women I've worked with or gone to school with so there was always some familiarity because I saw them on a regular basis. I've never been in this situation where I had to try to approach a stranger cold. Oh God, now she's coming this way! She comes over to the drink machine which is right in front of my booth. She lingers there a little while. Obviously, she want me to say something to her. I freeze and stare down at the food in my plate as if the flirting that took place only moments ago while she was in line never happened. She eventually leaves and I feel a mixture of exhilaration and self-loathing. I'm exhilarated because a woman of that quality would find me attractive. I loathe myself for again not being able to convert flirtation into a phone number or anything else.

I'm tired of it. I'm tired of all the woulda, coulda, shouldas in my life. I'm tired of watching one promising partner after another pass through on her way into someone else's arms because I couldn't open my mouth. Most of all, I'm tired of being alone. I crave intimacy like a man in the desert craves water. I don't mean simply sexual intimacy but emotional intimacy. The whole package. I've finally had enough. My desire to meet Ms. Right has finally surpassed my fear of being damaged by Ms. Wrong. In early January I registered at both match.com and Yahoo! Personals. The rest is history.

I hope some of y'all can take some encouragement from my story.


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## AdamCanada (Dec 6, 2003)

Dr_Funkenstein said:


> I'm tired of it. I'm tired of all the woulda, coulda, shouldas in my life. I'm tired of watching one promising partner after another pass through on her way into someone else's arms because I couldn't open my mouth. Most of all, I'm tired of being alone. I crave intimacy like a man in the desert craves water. I don't mean simply sexual intimacy but emotional intimacy. The whole package. I've finally had enough. My desire to meet Ms. Right has finally surpassed my fear of being damaged by Ms. Wrong. In early January I registered at both match.com and Yahoo! Personals. The rest is history.
> 
> I hope some of y'all can take some encouragement from my story.


Hell yea, i love your story. i think it should give lots of encouragment to alot of people on here who think they are hopelessly single.

Congratulations btw :hs


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## coyasso (Dec 21, 2003)

I would say that it would be better just to be able to get along with the opposite sex first, as a friendship, or a platonic based relationship. Just to coexist in a non-threatening way with someone of the opposite sex would be amazing. Just to make them laugh, and have regular conversations, and have them be happy to see you in the morning, and say good bye at night, and call you sometimes, just to talk... and not be so distant, just a glance, so afraid to even approach them for such fear of rejection, and the feeling that I am such a loser I don't want them to find out... and I don't want to find out. That would be so cool. Sex is just sex. Sex is not happiness, nor is it the end to our anxiety. You may think the ability to get sex means a lack of anxiety, but not necessarily. I would say we shoot for sex because it would feel good, but what about after sex? The anxiety would still be there. I would rather just be able to walk through school, or the office, or wherever, and not feel such fear just being around them. To be happy and comfortable in my own two feet... that is my goal, then maybe we can talk about a romantic or sexual relationship...

edit: I hope no-one finds this offensive. I don't mean to say don't try or you shouldn't, I'm just saying, especially for myself, to take, like someone said, baby steps...


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## Dr_Funkenstein (Jan 26, 2006)

liquid paper said:


> I urge you not to do this. You can't possibly have a real relationship with someone without being open and that includes being open about your past relationships or lack of. I was in the same situation and completely screwed up my first relationship by thinking i had to hide all this, and he liked me a lot but did not know how to be with someone who could not be open. After we broke up, I told him EVERYTHING and he laughed when I said I was scared to tell him my lack of dating experience. He said, why would I want to be with a girl who has been with a bunch of other guys. I thought it was a huge issue and it wasn't. By talking about it, you can get past your insecurity and into the relationship.
> 
> I didn't know the term "social anxiety" back then and I really wished I had because I would have straight out said it and that would have solved half my problems. It was the blow up of this relationship over me not being open enough that caused me to confront my SA, and now I'm not even sure I have it. I'm so open these days I probably say things I shouldn't.


You're probably right and I do not enjoy the deception. I really don't. But there's simply no way I could see myself coming out on the first, second or third date saying, "Oh yeah, I'm in my thirties but you're the first woman I have ever dated." What's she going to think? That I'm a headcase or there's something wrong with me in a major way, that's what she's going to think. I simply cannot risk it. No, I will maintain the illusion of normalcy until forced to do otherwise.

Question: How old were you when you had this relationship you write about?

Another Point: A girl not having had past relationships well into her 20's or 30's is not the same thing as a man not having had relationships into that age range. No doubt there will still be a stigma but it's not necessarily as great because of the different cultural roles men and women play.


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## coyasso (Dec 21, 2003)

I will agree that it is NOT the same for a man as it is with a woman. I will not tell women my weakness, that is BAD, because most women will walk away.... I think. I've never actually done it, but in terms gaining sexual ground, I can't imagine such information is sexy to a women. Women instinctively want a guy who can provide for them and get things done. Being assertive is not exactly the trademark of a person with social anxiety. Its just not sexy at all. Women want confidence more than anything, at least most of them do, and all of this is of course in my own opinion, though is what I find to be true from ample observation! Though, I must admit, I am attracted to the idea of coming clean, although I'm almost sure it won't work. 

Note: I really don't think being shy is that bad, or necessarily unsexy. Its the confidence thing. You can be shy, and confident. You don't have to feel like you have to talk every second. Be comfortable in being shy. As long as your communicating SOMETHING, either through facial experession, or eye contact, that says you are in the conversation, listening, and reacting, I think you're fine. Actually, I think girls like guys who talk less. Say what you need to say. Ask questions to fuel the conversation, sit back, let her talk, laugh at her jokes, make appropriate eye contact... alright, it is a lot to keep track of, but this is what I say to myself so I don't feel like I have to try to be somebody I'm not, which, I find, is when I act like the biggest idiot. Anyway, bla bla bla, I keep talking, I'm just very into this subject right now. (For years I completely ignored the idea of sexual confrontaion or anything even sexual in my behavior or towards others. In fact, I scorned it, because it was too painful to be rejected, but now I really want to confront this, and conquer it because the desire for it is mounting... no pun intended... hehe)


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Re. the issue of telling people about your SA. Imo, being emotionally vulnerable -- not wimpy, not peeing-your-pants scared, but just anxious, unsure, etc. -- can be very attractive to other people. It's paradoxical, but the things we think will make others reject us, often make others love us more. If you can reveal a little about your problems, it relieves other people of their anxiety, and it communicates to everyone that you don't need to be perfect. 

Anyhow, I encourage people to share about their fears, insecurities, etc. Do it reasonably, in a measured way, but do it. 

Why? 5 reasons: 
1. Further pretense = additional anxiety.
2. It breaks through the social BS and establishes a genuine "dialog" (hate that word, but oh well).
3. It sets an example that all not need be perfect.
4. It encourages the other person to self-disclose.
5. Vulnerability (honesty) usually results in other people wanting to move closer to us.


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## chantienyee (Mar 15, 2006)

I don't have any friends and I never go out, but I somehow managed to attract a girlfriend. We've been going out for almost 3 years (I'm 23 now -- this is my first and only girlfriend).

Kind of like Funkenstein I practically met my girlfriend through the internet (since I can actually write decently and not fumble over words or even worse go blank and have nothing to say). I met my 'best friend' (I know I said I don't have any friends -- I've seen her, maybe 3 times total in the past year...) over the internet, and she introduced me to my current girlfriend. I actually had an "internet girlfriend" before that, but I guess that doesn't really count.
I guess this can be a good way to meet people because you can get over the initial 'meeting' with writing instead of verbal communication (though meeting someone from the internet for the first time was still weird and akward for me).

We were friends before we starting going out, although we were basically 'match-made' by our mutual friend for the purpose of going out. Being friends first made it easy to be open and we always tell each other everything now. My issues (mainly going blank and having nothing to say) seriously affect our relationship (the biggest reason that I am trying to find help right now...) and we've almost broke up many times because of it (me sitting in silence when we have an arguement  ).

I've only asked a girl out once, and it was on the phone, and it wasn't my current girlfriend.

I think funkenstein's advice (baby steps) sounds really good. I don't really have much advice of my own because I am still trying to figure myself out (and just found this forum), and I'm really just amazed that I have a girlfriend.



This may be really obvious and silly, but I think something that can help is when you notice someone smiling at you or being nice in a general, curtious way (someone saying hi to you at school), take the time and build up the courage to do something nice in return and try to speak (small talk is really, really hard for me). I've found out a few times (after the fact) that girls who have talked to me on numerous occations were actually trying to flirt with me, and I was too self-conscious to even notice.


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## knglerxt (Jan 18, 2006)

JasonAnthony31 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Being that Socail Anxiety Disorder makes it extremely difficult to develop and to explore relationships with the opposite sex, how do you cope with the obvious sexual/romantic frustrations that result from not being able to date, have a girlfriend, or start a relationship? This is something that I deal with all the time; especially when I go out to places and I see so many couples walking hand in hand and enjoying each other. Some days I feel like I'm going to die without ever experiencing true love.


 I've been trying to deal with this for the last 7 months, and I'm not having much luck. Actually, that's an understatement. I'm on the verge of going insane.

What makes me so angry is seeing all these other guys with their girlfriends, and here I am with nothing. Even seeing girls by themselves that I'm attracted to is a trigger. I know that most of these people are sexually active, and I'm not. That's what makes me so envious. I'm human just like they are. Why should I have to miss out on these experiences when they don't?


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> just anxious, unsure, etc. -- can be very attractive to other people. It's paradoxical, but the things we think will make others reject us, often make others love us more. If you can reveal a little about your problems, it relieves other people of their anxiety, and it communicates to everyone that you don't need to be perfect.
> .


If you're a girl maybe. Guys find shy, anxious girls to be cute. If you're a guy and don't act confident people see you as weird and psycho.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I agree with that to a certain degree. Guys are supposed to be protectors, so lots of women naturally look for men that are confident and self assured of themselves. 

They want a man that would protect them and provide for their offspring. Security. It seems to be a natural thing...well, from stuff I've read anyhow and it seems to make sense. 

Stereotypes don't fit everybody though. There are women out there who find a shy guys cute.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> Stereotypes don't fit everybody though. There are women out there who find a shy guys cute.


Where? In a galaxy far far away where bananas rule the world?
:evil :evil :banana


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > just anxious, unsure, etc. -- can be very attractive to other people. It's paradoxical, but the things we think will make others reject us, often make others love us more. If you can reveal a little about your problems, it relieves other people of their anxiety, and it communicates to everyone that you don't need to be perfect.
> ...


I just don't think that's true. That's certainly not true of the group of people I hang out with. It might be an age thing.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Most girls find confidence attractive.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Prodigal_Son said:


> Most girls find confidence attractive.


Yes of course they do, but I'm just saying that showing anxiety in front of girls is not necessarily going to cause a rejection. Sometimes (paradoxically, I know), it will cause further attraction. You guys must just not know the experience I'm talking about... You share a little of your doubts and insecurities, something mild, and the girl opens up more. I think it's very common. Again, I don't mean stumbling around biting your lip scared.


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## pixiedust (Aug 11, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> Prodigal_Son said:
> 
> 
> > Most girls find confidence attractive.
> ...


 Very very true. This power sometimes falls into the wrong hands. SAers should be the ones using it. Vulnerability is an attractive thing. Nobody wants someone who is inhuman and has no faults...if you meet that person run as fast as you can in the other direction because they're probably the biggest liar on the planet.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I agree completely with the last part. Girls like the tough guy or just confident guy but when it comes down to it they also want you to open up and be a sensitive guy as well, not really in public, but sharing some of your fears and doubts in a private manner makes her feel very special.

Nobody wants a boring emotionless rock.

edit: Response was to LittleZion's post. Post time probably already told you this.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

pixiedust said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > Prodigal_Son said:
> ...


Thank you. It always helps when a woman backs up what I'm saying. Suddenly I've got credibility, lol. Thanks pixiedust.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Bah, I backed you up! What am I, chopped liver? :mum


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## pixiedust (Aug 11, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> Bah, I backed you up! What am I, chopped liver? :mum


 :lol I guess it probably means more when a woman agrees about what women want than when a man does.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Prodigal_Son said:


> Bah, I backed you up! What am I, chopped liver? :mum


She beat you to it, sorry. :lol


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> Prodigal_Son said:
> 
> 
> > Most girls find confidence attractive.
> ...


Almost always it will. I've been in groups when people more anxious than me has walked in. And as soon as the person leaves some girls always comments on the person and not in a good way or ohhhh! he's so cute.

What i've learned is that girls have more problems with quiet people than guys have. Most girls don't seem to understand a person if he does'nt talk much. Guys usually don't care that much.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="Prodigal_Son":d360e]Most girls find confidence attractive.
> ...


Almost always it will. I've been in groups when people more anxious than me has walked in. And as soon as the person leaves some girls always comments on the person and not in a good way or ohhhh! he's so cute.

What i've learned is that girls have more problems with quiet people than guys have. Most girls don't seem to understand a person if he does'nt talk much. Guys usually don't care that much.[/quote:d360e]

I think we're talking about two entirely different things. You're talking about being silent and very anxious. I'm talking about talking about your nervousness, and not being so anxious that you can't interact. Naturally, if someone's like your picture, others are going to assume all kinds of stuff (you're judgmental, you're a psycho, etc.).


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

I think shy/anxious guys are cute. Granted, I haven't been with any because I'm really passive and would never start something, but I have been obsessively attracted to some before. :b :hide


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Me too. I like shy girls a lot. I don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around, at least a little, gender stereotypes notwithstanding.


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## knglerxt (Jan 18, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> [quote="Prodigal_Son":2d316]
> Stereotypes don't fit everybody though. There are women out there who find a shy guys cute.


Where? In a galaxy far far away where bananas rule the world?
:evil :evil :banana[/quote:2d316]

:lol That's the best post I've seen so far at this site.


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## Lonelygirl (Nov 29, 2003)

Hi, hon'..

I'm so sorry you feel this way. *HUGS* I can definitely relate, though.

I am the only one in my family who's never been married or had kids. I see my 18 year old nephew doing things and having such a rich social life, and it kills me because at his age I was holed up in my room too afraid to experience life. The sad part is that at 41, nothing's changed. 

I agree with the number of you that stated that society places a lot on being part of a couple vs. being single. There is still this stigma attached to being single, it seems. I think that makes us SA'ers feel even worse.

I wish I had a magic bullet answer for you, hon', but I don't. I'd love to say that maybe you shouldn't think or worry about it, but it's understandable that you would/do. *HUGS* My hope for you is that one day you will experience all the joys that a relationship has to offer. Till then, just take it one day at a time.

Hugs,
Jo


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Lonelygirl said:


> I agree with the number of you that stated that society places a lot on being part of a couple vs. being single. There is still this stigma attached to being single, it seems. I think that makes us SA'ers feel even worse.


I just want to add, I think it's worse for women than men.


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

Does anyone else have trouble enjoying sex because of their SA? I feel totally uncomfortable and not really "there." :hide


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> Carbon Breather said:
> 
> 
> > LittleZion said:
> ...


I think we're talking about two entirely different things. You're talking about being silent and very anxious. I'm talking about talking about your nervousness, and not being so anxious that you can't interact. Naturally, if someone's like your picture, others are going to assume all kinds of stuff (you're judgmental, you're a psycho, etc.).[/quote:2545c]

You mean discussing anxiety with someone who doesn't have it.?
I don't see the point because no one understands any of it anyway.

You don't have to discuss it because girls notice it right away when you talk to them and place you in the weird and shy category.

Maybe i'm just different because i don't take life that seriously, everyone else seems to concentrate a lot on small things but i don't care about much these days.

Maybe im not supposed to have a relationship. Maybe it's just sex i want and i should move to a town with brothels. Im very confused...... :con :con


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## Urkidding (Oct 12, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> I think we're talking about two entirely different things. You're talking about being silent and very anxious. I'm talking about talking about your nervousness, and not being so anxious that you can't interact.


I've seen that paradox of vulnerability work. Long time ago when I frequented night clubs I'd often ask girls to dance but would face a lot of rejection. I tried various approaches--direct questions, fancy lines, etc.--and discovered the following introduction to be by far the most successful: "Hi. I feel nervous about saying this, but I'd really like to dance with you. Would you like to?" I saw a lot of placating smiles after that and then we were up on the dance floor.


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## umbrellagirl1980 (Dec 28, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> Imo, being emotionally vulnerable can be very attractive to other people. It's paradoxical, but the things we think will make others reject us, often make others love us more. If you can reveal a little about your problems, it relieves other people of their anxiety, and it communicates to everyone that you don't need to be perfect.


i agree with this completely, in my experience, the more open i've been about my nervousness, shyness, anxiety, depression, the more open others have been in return, and a closer more honest relationship/friendship has been the result. this might be a bit off topic, but i often wish my family worked this way too. my parents especially, never show a moment of vulnerability. nothing to let you in on their emotional life. as a result, i've always felt distant from my family. we tend to talk about books, music, politics. but never anything more personal. i've noticed over the years that the fact that they are like this makes me less likely to reveal things about myself to them. i think it's true that admitting your vulnerabilites will make others open up more. i wish the tone had been set early on in my family, before we all became distant and only interacted on the surface. one of the things most important to me is not to make the same mistake in my own personal relationships. i'm always afraid i will though, that i won't be strong enough to change the tendencies i grew up with. that my tendencies towards secrecy will overcome my need for honesty and closeness, even though truthfulness and openness are the things i value most.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Urkidding said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > I think we're talking about two entirely different things. You're talking about being silent and very anxious. I'm talking about talking about your nervousness, and not being so anxious that you can't interact.
> ...


[/quote:f65f8]

Yeah, that's a good one.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

umbrellagirl1980 said:


> i agree with this completely, in my experience, the more open i've been about my nervousness, shyness, anxiety, depression, the more open others have been in return, and a closer more honest relationship/friendship has been the result.


Thank you, too.

I think the reason vulnerability "works" is that it breaks through the usual restraints and BS. It's emotionally real. And it's hard not to like that.

I think you can misuse it, though -- overdo it, or do it in a manipulative way.



> ... that my tendencies towards secrecy will overcome my need for honesty and closeness, even though truthfulness and openness are the things i value most.


I think your parents probably gave you a little problem with being too emotionally inhibited. At least, that's me. I have trouble being emotionally spontaneous and expressive.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

Urkidding said:


> LittleZion said:
> 
> 
> > I think we're talking about two entirely different things. You're talking about being silent and very anxious. I'm talking about talking about your nervousness, and not being so anxious that you can't interact.
> ...


Yes, i've done that. If i'm a bit drunk i can ask any girl if they like to dance. It's the part after that when you are supposed to sit down and talk that goes to hell, when the girl finds out i'm strange....

If i would say, oh this place is so crowded it makes me a bit dizzy. I have anxiety problems and don't go out much. I think she would take another guy. If there are 500 guys in the club she have like a 95% chance to find someone normal.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Right, you can't say it like that.



> It's the part after that when you are supposed to sit down and talk that goes to hell, when the girl finds out i'm strange....


ok, I'll bite: how does the girl find out you are "strange"?


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> Right, you can't say it like that.
> 
> ok, I'll bite: how does the girl find out you are "strange"?


Well, if you have anxiety and agoraphobia it usually shows in one way or another. If not the lack of guy - girl talk, relationship talk experience shows.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

...And are there really any shy girls?? Well of course there are but I've met a lot of shy guys but most of the girls i've met have been really outgoing, laughing out loud type of girls. :banana :con


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

....And i realise my posts have been negative but i'm going to stop and take my misery somewhere else. Here's a compensation:


  :love :clap :clap :kma :eyes :rofl


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> ...And are there really any shy girls?? Well of course there are but I've met a lot of shy guys but most of the girls i've met have been really outgoing, laughing out loud type of girls. :banana :con


I think a lot of shy girls learn to develop a social persona, so they're hard to recognize. They don't immediately come off as shy and inhibited. Sometimes they come off as aggressive, cynical, or even angry. Sometimes they just seem "normal." They've learned to put on a social mask is all. Beneath it, they're still socially anxious.

So that can make it hard to recognize SA. Maybe girls are better at doing it than guys, I don't know. It took me a while to learn to "act normal" (some would say I still have a lot to learn, lol).


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## coyasso (Dec 21, 2003)

What bothers me more is the embarassment of being socially anxious in front girls, meaning have visible 'symptons' or insecurities that make it known that I am not a confident person and that the interaction is very difficult for me. The knowledge that she is aware of that compounds the anxiety.


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## Mr_Twig (Apr 10, 2006)

I don't even know if shyness is a major problem for me-at least not in terms of not speaking. It's more of an overall awkwardness combined with being generally unattractive and not into "sexy" hobbies (don't ask me what those are. I just assume there must be _some_).

Every day I try to get used to living my life alone, but it's hard when you're missing out on what other people take for granted (not the sex alone. I'd be perfectly fine with someone who wanted to wait for a while. What I'm missing out on is more of the ol' elusive emotional connection, which is why I've tried to convince myself it doesn't exist anyway.)

I just need to realize what a failure I am as a human being, I suppose.


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## coyasso (Dec 21, 2003)

Mr_Twig said:


> I just need to realize what a failure I am as a human being, I suppose.


That's ridiculous and completely inaccurate. You think that to justify your withdrawal from situations you fear. The mind will justify itself anyway it can to avoid pain. I know, I've done it for years, but the more you stifle that desire, the more you're going to hurt yourself.

Don't worry about what's sexy and what's not. Try to be happy with yourself. Forget girls dude. They won't make you happy, I'm convinced. Although being afraid of them may make you miserable. I don't quite understand it myself, although I know that our attraction toward the opposite must be satiated to some degree, unless you want to be a monk. and that doesn't necessarily mean sex, just approval I suppose.

I don't like hearing this kind of talk because I did it to myself for so long, and still do, and there's no reason to put yourself down because you can't get someone elses approval. Who the hell are they? Anyway, this has all been said before... just a little pep talk I suppose... hope it helps...

p.s. find your mojo!


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

> I think a lot of shy girls learn to develop a social persona, so they're hard to recognize. They don't immediately come off as shy and inhibited. Sometimes they come off as aggressive, cynical, or even angry. Sometimes they just seem "normal." They've learned to put on a social mask is all. Beneath it, they're still socially anxious


LittleZion, I never knew of anyone noticing this before. I've met so many girls through people I know that come across with so much jabber and persona, but I felt like something wasn't right. I've done it myself, too. I can feel myself being fake. It's really sad what people will make themselves into in order to feel like they are normal to others. I wouldn't type that if it wasn't true for me. And you get caught up in it. You get stuck acting like something you aren't because you think that's how people would prefer to see you.. anything but quiet and untalkative. I used to think that girls that didn't talk at all were the only ones I would like, because that meant they were like me, but it turns out it is much different. People vary too much. I didn't look at myself when I was thinking that way. I am generally quiet, but I still act like.... somebody. I do talk and present some kind of character. I never fully accepted that I was a quiet person that listened and took things in. To this day that is true, and not just the past. I always wonder about the people I meet... what they really think about and what they really feel. The way everyone interacts in life in general to me seems too fake. I'm so tired of everything being that way.


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## pixiedust (Aug 11, 2005)

LittleZion said:


> I think a lot of shy girls learn to develop a social persona, so they're hard to recognize. They don't immediately come off as shy and inhibited. Sometimes they come off as aggressive, cynical, or even angry. Sometimes they just seem "normal." They've learned to put on a social mask is all. Beneath it, they're still socially anxious.


 That's me! I often seem agitated when I'm in overly social situations because I'm just trying to hide the fact that I'm so uncomfortable. Many times though, especially if I'm confronted directly by someone I don't know, the awkwardness comes out full force. It's kind of taken on it's own life, my friends call it "The Awkwardness". I just hope that some people find it endearing, I can't worry about the people that get ticked at me for not being super outgoing and smooth.


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## Mr_Twig (Apr 10, 2006)

coyasso said:


> Try to be happy with yourself. Forget girls dude


See, most of the time I do. I just have to write about it somewhere. I've tried to ignore all that crap-but it's hard. Then again, isn't anything worthwhile? It is fascinating how little attention I get from the ladies though-almost like I'm setting some sort of record here...but I digress. Back to where I was before. After all, those monks seem happier than most people.


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## tewstroke (Feb 18, 2006)

BeNice said:



> > I think a lot of shy girls learn to develop a social persona, so they're hard to recognize. They don't immediately come off as shy and inhibited. Sometimes they come off as aggressive, cynical, or even angry. Sometimes they just seem "normal." They've learned to put on a social mask is all. Beneath it, they're still socially anxious
> 
> 
> LittleZion, I never knew of anyone noticing this before. I've met so many girls through people I know that come across with so much jabber and persona, but I felt like something wasn't right. I've done it myself, too. I can feel myself being fake. It's really sad what people will make themselves into in order to feel like they are normal to others. I wouldn't type that if it wasn't true for me. And you get caught up in it. You get stuck acting like something you aren't because you think that's how people would prefer to see you.. anything but quiet and untalkative. I used to think that girls that didn't talk at all were the only ones I would like, because that meant they were like me, but it turns out it is much different. People vary too much. I didn't look at myself when I was thinking that way. I am generally quiet, but I still act like.... somebody. I do talk and present some kind of character. I never fully accepted that I was a quiet person that listened and took things in. To this day that is true, and not just the past. I always wonder about the people I meet... what they really think about and what they really feel. The way everyone interacts in life in general to me seems too fake. I'm so tired of everything being that way.


Wow! In this sense we think alike. You just said everything that I have been thinking since I developed sa. I think that's the main reason that I feel I can't communicate/form a relationship with others because,how do I know they aren't just acting?


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

BeNice said:


> > I think a lot of shy girls learn to develop a social persona, so they're hard to recognize. They don't immediately come off as shy and inhibited. Sometimes they come off as aggressive, cynical, or even angry. Sometimes they just seem "normal." They've learned to put on a social mask is all. Beneath it, they're still socially anxious
> 
> 
> LittleZion, I never knew of anyone noticing this before. I've met so many girls through people I know that come across with so much jabber and persona, but I felt like something wasn't right. I've done it myself, too. I can feel myself being fake. It's really sad what people will make themselves into in order to feel like they are normal to others. I wouldn't type that if it wasn't true for me. And you get caught up in it. You get stuck acting like something you aren't because you think that's how people would prefer to see you.. anything but quiet and untalkative. [....] The way everyone interacts in life in general to me seems too fake. I'm so tired of everything being that way.


Yeah, I hear you. I really get sick of myself, when I see myself acting all toady and approval-seeking, just so someone will like me. It can be hard to snap out of, but sometimes being annoyed with myself for doing it helps, so I support you in being sick of it. Really I think the only way out of this trap we're all in is to form relationships where we can be more and more of our true selves. It sounds corny, I guess, but I've struggled with SA etc. for many years, and I think I've learned that the only real "cure" is getting into relationships where you can be yourself and be accepted. Faking yourself is just a recipe for reinforcing the anxiety, imo...

Of course, dropping the mask and being "real" is what everyone with SA is afraid of, so it's not an easy thing.



pixiedust said:


> That's me! I often seem agitated when I'm in overly social situations because I'm just trying to hide the fact that I'm so uncomfortable. Many times though, especially if I'm confronted directly by someone I don't know, the awkwardness comes out full force. It's kind of taken on it's own life, my friends call it "The Awkwardness". I just hope that some people find it endearing, I can't worry about the people that get ticked at me for not being super outgoing and smooth.


Yeah, I think a lot of people get kind of agitated when they're anxious. I know I do. Sometimes I get cocky or sarcastic. You wouldn't guess I was nervous. You'd just think I was an a-hole, lol.

"The Awkwardness." I like that.

We're talking about the downside of personas, but they can be helpful sometimes too. You're reading Aron's book on sensitive people, and if I remember right, one of the thing she recommends is that HSPs develop a kind of social persona that can protect them from overstimulation and freak outs, in difficult social situations. I know I put on a smooth, social mask when I need to (or as smooth as I can manage, lol).


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

tewstroke said:


> BeNice said:
> 
> 
> > > I think a lot of shy girls learn to develop a social persona, so they're hard to recognize. They don't immediately come off as shy and inhibited. Sometimes they come off as aggressive, cynical, or even angry. Sometimes they just seem "normal." They've learned to put on a social mask is all. Beneath it, they're still socially anxious
> ...


Well you know what? I think everyone acts. Everyone puts on different masks and personas in different situations. Who really knows what someone's true self is? It's kind of like the song that says, "I'm a million different people from one day to the next."


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## littleblacckcat (Apr 10, 2006)

i think a social mask is a good way 2 put it :agree . 

i personally am very much like that, and i know some ppl find me confusing because i am inconsistent in my behaviour. depending on the ppl there, some days i come across as very talkative :blah , which is generally bcoz there is an awkward silence, and i feel ppl r staring @ me. However, other days i come across quite shy. 

i find that this inconsistency makes me feel safe, as it allows the social mask 2 stay intact, as ppl will not know the 'real' me.


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## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Zephyr said:


> Well you know what? I think everyone acts. Everyone puts on different masks and personas in different situations. Who really knows what someone's true self is? It's kind of like the song that says, "I'm a million different people from one day to the next."


Everyone acts sometimes, and yes, everyone has social roles that they have to "play." But I think there's a difference between that and always trying to manage other people's impressions and feeling like you're presenting a false front to the world. As to the question, "Who really knows what someone's true self is?" the answer is that hopefully, you do...


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## alternativesong (Apr 5, 2006)

That's what prompted me to change what I was doing. I realized I was putting up a mask and just evading the anxiety. I got to a point when I realized I'm making it worse by doing that and I want to be myself because I've got a lot to offer. I really recognized early on how lucky I was to be so young and to have such a solid view of myself and who I want to be as well as a good view of the potential I have. That's for me why I really think the medication will work (and I think my therapist does as well) because the symptoms are really outside of myself in a lot of ways such as the physical and the negative thoughts. I can say to myself as much as I want all the logic but it gets bombarded by the anxiety. I always felt like I was the confident, smart, together person inside but when I was facing the world I just couldn't get to that. That's why I switched therapists because she kept dwelling on low self-esteem and I don't have low-self esteem nor am I a shy person, however the anxiety makes me quiet and not contribute as much as I'd like to conversations and socializing. I'll stop rambling though


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