# Diagnosing ugly people with BDD is cruel



## LonelyUgly (Nov 13, 2015)

I'm so sick of psychiatrists failing to distinguish between legitimate ugliness and imagined ugliness. By failing to make this distinction, they incorrectly diagnose thousands of people with BDD and end up making their lives worse.

The fact of the matter is that beauty is overwhelmingly objective: It comes down to the symmetry of your facial halves and the proportions of your facial landmarks. That's it -- there's hardly any subjectivity involved in interpreting beauty.

I should also add that attractiveness plays an enormous role in determining the quality of one's life (duh!). Therefore, people who are legitimately ugly have every reason to be distraught over their appearance. They have every reason to be depressed and -- depending on the severity of their ugliness -- suicidal. I firmly believe that in some cases of incorrigible ugliness, death is a realistic option.

What legitimately ugly people need is not counseling but surgery. Cosmetic surgery doesn't perform miracles, but it can provide significant and objective improvements to one's facial appearance. Someone with a wide, humped, crooked nose would probably benefit much more from a quality rhinoplasty than therapy. Unlike therapy, surgery treats the problem (unattractive facial features), not the symptoms (depression and anxiety over appearance).

So if you are readings this, I implore you: Be skeptical of BDD. If you are legitimately ugly, then your best option is to correct what is making you unattractive. If after correcting these problems you still believe you are ugly, then perhaps you should seek a counselor. But do NOT be lured by the comforting diagnosis of BDD, which seems to suggest that no one is ugly. That's a fairy tale.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

Exactly. Beauty is UNIVERSAL, everyone finds the same things attractive more or less, there are minor differences but they're generally how people dress and present themselves and they vary from culture to culture, the rest is objective.


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## longtimenolove (Oct 21, 2015)

I think a lot of people can relate. I still think of the everyday bullying I had to endure in high school. It turned me into an absolute train wreck. It def diminished my quality of life. It gets better though.

For years I wanted to correct what was ugly, mainly because I felt like an outcast and I really thought it was because of my looks. Take heart though, it changes when you get a little older and find yourself with more mature and less shallow people.

I'm not going to try and change what makes me unattractive...couldn't afford cosmetic surgery lol It's taken me years (many years) to just accept that I'm ugly. It's still an ongoing process, but I don't want to fight it anymore. It is what it is.


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

LonelyUgly said:


> I'm so sick of psychiatrists failing to distinguish between legitimate ugliness and imagined ugliness. By failing to make this distinction, they incorrectly diagnose thousands of people with BDD and end up making their lives worse.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that beauty is overwhelmingly objective: It comes down to the symmetry of your facial halves and the proportions of your facial landmarks. That's it -- there's hardly any subjectivity involved in interpreting beauty.


hi there,

i am somewhat interested in this topic and i dont want to seem dismissive of your opinions, as i believe there is much to discuss. i hope it wont seem too obnoxious if i try to challenge your opinions, some of which i am sure are damaging you.

i know there have been attempts within science to understand what beauty is, but honestly, you must talk to people personally, the idea that it all comes down to symmetry or some easily definable attributes is very wrong.

i know that if you and i were to look at a certain kind of picture of a person, we would probably agree "this person will get a lot of attention on dating sites". but our perception of beauty is far greater than that. ive seen people who were unremarkable in pictures and then when i met them, they came across as far more attractive. some factors are, their body language, and the range of facial expressions they use (which amounts to the vibe you get from them, as well as what their face literally looks like, since most people don't have one constant and fixed facial expression).

but then after all of that its important to talk to people about what they actually find attractive. from my own personal experience i know guys that love very overweight women and they cant really work with anything else. or you get people who love "exotic women", ie, women of races they are unfamiliar. ive seen a middle-eastern girl i know talk about how much she "hates her big nose", or the dark hairs she gets on her arms, and its like, i know sooo many people who were crushing on her specifically because of her dark hair and relatively exotic (for where i come from) appearance.

edit : this is the sort of thing im talking about










you too could have all your character removed by surgery and look like people on tv 

im not saying _either _picture is bad, i just dont think there was anything "wrong" with this person in the first place

if you believe adverts and the media and maybe hollywood beauty standards then probably 90% of women would never be able to get a partner. thats not what i see when i look around.



> I should also add that attractiveness plays an enormous role in determining the quality of one's life (duh!). Therefore, people who are legitimately ugly have every reason to be distraught over their appearance. They have every reason to be depressed and -- depending on the severity of their ugliness -- suicidal. I firmly believe that in some cases of incorrigible ugliness, death is a realistic option.


these views are very extreme. maybe in time you will get to know some good-looking people who have had to put up with no end of bullsh1t because of it. creeps hitting on them constantly, people who are only interested in being their friend with the hope of getting sexually involved, who then cut all ties when the person gets a partner, ive seen this a bunch of times. how would you feel if you were friends with someone for years and they ditched you because it turns out that they were only interested in you sexually? i mean, once that had happened to you several times, can you see how horrible that would be? good looking people have problems, too.

ive spent most of my life thinking that i look awful, but im glad i stuck around to the point where i started to get the good kind of attention, and figured out that there are actually women who like how i look.

and yet, i understand what you are saying. its not nice to think that you arent good looking, that you arent pleasing to the eye. but loads of people arent good looking. and they somehow find ways to live their lives, have jobs, get partners, have children, go on holidays, and do other stuff that people like to do. how on earth do they manage to do this without having their face chopped up by a surgeon? i think thats maybe a question you should spend some time thinking about. maybe think about some famous people who are doing alright despite being butt ugly.

i dont think anyone thinks donald trump is good looking, but he seems to have done alright for himself.

bill gates has changed the world, and he looks like magikarp





















> What legitimately ugly people need is not counseling but surgery. Cosmetic surgery doesn't perform miracles, but it can provide significant and objective improvements to one's facial appearance. Someone with a wide, humped, crooked nose would probably benefit much more from a quality rhinoplasty than therapy. Unlike therapy, surgery treats the problem (unattractive facial features), not the symptoms (depression and anxiety over appearance).


surgery can often go wrong and leave you looking worse, and like someone who obviously had bad surgery. what if the patient simply managed to get laid a few times, increasing their confidence in their appearance? what if they got surgery and it didnt change how they feel? im not saying surgery isnt a solution, because im sure it is, for a lot of people. but the problem is really how people FEEL about their appearance, its perfectly acceptable to be imperfect looking, since thats what everyone looks like. the problem is when people obsess about their looks and think that it means they cant achieve what they want in life, and just shut down, when in reality there are plenty of succesful fat people, bald people, people with big noses, yadda yadda yadda.

anyway i am sure you will think what you want to think but i just thought i would add some different perspectives to the discussion

and for what its worth, i might be getting a mole thing lopped off my nose soon by the dr ;P but ill still be ugly without it lmao


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## JTHearts (Nov 4, 2015)

shut the **** up, all that **** about attractiveness being universal is a bunch of lies straight from the pit of hell. And for you to tell people that they should get surgery is just WRONG and EVIL.


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## indielife (Jun 17, 2015)

I somewhat agree wth OP, although I do believe that bdd is a thing. I've seen plenty of people who can't live with the way they look, and they're actually quite attractive. 

I can't stand the way I look: my face is too wide, baby fat in the facial region that is still there even at around 18% fat (hoping it will go away when I get down to 8%), too small mouth compared to face width, really bad skin that can't be helped even with beauty products, etc. Well at least my face is symmetrical and my nose looks quite normal, but that's about it. It pretty much makes life really crappy at times, but I try not to think about it too much. When I isolate myself I don't really have think about it (I do like to be alone, so it's not that big of an issue). 

I am pretty sure I'm on the ugly side of the spectrum, and don't have bdd. I don't know what a psychiatrist would say if I told one, as it's something I mostly keep to myself.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

@Surly Wurly wonderful post, also magikarp evolves into gyrados, was that comment meant to have some more meaning to it or was it just a joke?

Body language and how you present yourself in general matter alongside your appearance, I agree. And I don't mean to alienate people who find different things attractive here but...hardly anyone finds obese women attractive, and few have fetishes for exotic women, the ones who do like beautiful exotic women, most likely, not all "exotic" women.Its like, you need both to be attractive and if you don't have either you're going to be unattractive to the opposite gender and then it WILL hinder your life significantly, my experiences anyway.


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## Syfe (Oct 26, 2015)

Man this post is sickening. Nobody should kill themselves or need surgery to change their appearances.

All of you are simply obsessed over your outward appearance because you don't realize there's a lot more to life than what you look like. 

I would encourage all of you to start thinking and learning a little more about the world and other cultures.

Gain some perspective and realize that there is a world out there past the tip of your nose.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Syfe said:


> Man this post is sickening. Nobody should kill themselves or need surgery to change their appearances.
> 
> All of you are simply obsessed over your outward appearance because you don't realize there's a lot more to life than what you look like.
> 
> ...


It's really difficult to interact with a world that either shuns your or completely disregards you due to their own feelings and opinions about how people should look. Different cultures definitely do have different value systems, but that doesn't mean they don't have their own ****ed up ones as well that alienates people. "Western civilization" just happens to be a media-centered, and therefore a "beautiful-people-oriented" society.

Of course you can get over someone's looks once you get to know them and start seeing their physical features completely different once you're familiar with their personality and how they express themselves. However, that doesn't change how strangers see you, and to a lot of us with SA, the world is filled with these sneering strangers.


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## klvmm (Sep 16, 2015)

I agree with surly wurly one this one. Whilst I think I am painfully ugly, heck many people have told that I am, as a black women, by the standards of beauty of most people in western society, I will always be ugly no matter what I do to myself.


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## drummerboy45 (Jul 29, 2010)

I have BDD. It. Sucks. A. Lot.


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## Anxiolytic (Nov 20, 2014)

This post is extremely ignorant, myopic, and almost delusional in nature. I understand the frustration, but there is so much more to life than how you appear externally to society. Ever hear, see, read, or watch a story of a beautiful person who is facially and physically injured beyond repair, to the point where they are maimed for life? Many times those people rise past the fact that they were once beautiful and now face a life of remaining disfigured and looked at like a mutant. They once again can live a fulfilling life. It's more about spiriturl awakening and less about looks. Expand your mind. This is a backwards way of thinking, but I can't blame you for getting to that point. Society is cruel.


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## whocares187 (May 23, 2015)

truth hurts. I agree with this. ther are a lot of solutions.

the best cure of ugly is money. get rich and marry a decent looking chick. fail? there's still some cheap pros for you. really this world seems to cater to the ugly. if this world was less superficial all the girls would just run away from ugly dudes and we'd be even more lonely ha.

now if your an ugly chick....hmmm. yeaaaaa I'm gonna leave this one alone.


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## JohnDoe26 (Jun 6, 2012)

I agree with this except for the suicide part.

As a legit ugly person (who actually get's stares and looks of disgust in public - not imagining it either since other people have commented on the stares), I know first hand how awkward it is for people to acknowledge this. No one wants to seriously tell you to your face you're ugly. Even here, when I've brought it up, people are very dismissive. 

I think truly ugly people (like gorgeous people) are rare. Most people are either normal looking or plain unattractive.

If you can go outside and nobody looks at you, then you are normal looking or plain unattractive. If you constantly get treated like crap or given the cold shoulder, your looks may have something to do with it.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

Isn't BDD just not feeling comfortable with the way you look, whether you actually look good or bad?


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## Telliblah (Sep 19, 2015)

Yeah in many cases surgery might be the better option.

Of course success is possible even if you look like Quasimodo but statistically you have to work much harder for it.


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## Genos (Dec 17, 2014)

Joe said:


> Isn't BDD just not feeling comfortable with the way you look, whether you actually look good or bad?


no that's low self-esteem, bdd is distortion of self [like really skinny people thinking that they're fat and stuff]


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

Touka said:


> no that's low self-esteem, bdd is distortion of self [like really skinny people thinking that they're fat and stuff]


oh yeah, thank you


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## Carlfrukt (Jun 28, 2012)

As far as I have understood (but I could be wrong of course) having BDD doesn't necessarily mean you are delusional. A person who thinks they have an abnormally huge nose even though their nose actually is quite small is delusional, yes, but a person who actually has a huge nose is not delusional. They see themselves correctly and there is nothing wrong with their perception. The problem is not their perception per se but the amount of time they spend worrying about their nose and the emotional distress it causes them. A person who doesn't suffer from BDD may dislike some parts of their body and wish they looked different but a person with BDD worries so much about their flaws that it becomes an obsession.

I'm not delusional. I know my flaws are real. Others may not care or dislike them as much as I do but that doesn't mean they aren't there, it just means that I have a different opinion. Beauty/ugliness/taste/preference is subjective to some extent. You can't tell a person who doesn't like ketchup that they are delusional since taste is not an objective fact that can be proven. If the person who doesn't like ketchup talks about how much they hate ketchup all day and can hardly think about anything else than how much they hate it there obviously is some kind of problem going on but they are still not delusional, just obsessive. However, you can call a person delusional if they believe that ketchup is green.

I think it's misleading to call BDD "imagined" ugliness because a person who suffers from it may actually be ugly according to their own or society's standards. It's the obsession that makes it a disorder. I hope that makes sense.


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## JohnDoe26 (Jun 6, 2012)

From Mayo Clinic:



> Body dysmorphic disorder is a type of chronic mental illness in which you can't stop thinking about a flaw in your appearance - a flaw that is *either minor or imagined.* But to you, your appearance seems so shameful that you don't want to be seen by anyone.


If you are really ugly to the point that it effects your daily social interaction, it does not fit the definition of what BDD actually is.


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

I agree that beauty is largely universal, with some exceptions, so BDD just smacks to me of ''it's all in your head, you're fine'' phoniness. Which can be disingenuous. Worse, it creates expectations which may be unrealistic.

Don't agree with the rest. Ugliness is a feature, not a flaw. It limits one's options and leads to some different treatment - some good, mostly bad. But that's the fault of society, not the person being discriminated against. Better to accept the facts and learn to live with it. But it seems psychologists would rather have you lie to and deceive yourself - self-esteem at all costs, even if you really are handicapped. I resent this approach.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Surly Wurly said:


> but then after all of that its important to talk to people about what they actually find attractive. from my own personal experience i know guys that love very overweight women and they cant really work with anything else. or you get people who love "exotic women", ie, women of races they are unfamiliar. ive seen a middle-eastern girl i know talk about how much she "hates her big nose", or the dark hairs she gets on her arms, and its like, i know sooo many people who were crushing on her specifically because of her dark hair and relatively exotic (for where i come from) appearance.
> 
> edit : this is the sort of thing im talking about
> 
> ...


 Perfectly stated.

A lot of people don't like to look different. They don't care if people find them attractive or not. They just don't want to stand out because their nose looks a little different than the typical "perfect nose" or whatever.

It's understandable. Nobody really enjoys the kind of juvenile thing that goes on in high school where if you have a slightly different nose or ears or whatever the other kids will just tear you apart over it. But that usually happens because those kids are....

1. Idiots

2. Just looking for any excuse. They don't even care enough to have a real opinion about the things they use to pick other people apart. All that matters to them is that it works.

Now of course sometimes people who see themselves as being very unattractive are pretty much right but on this forum, we see the opposite more often. People who think they're terrible looking and they post a pic and they're either completely normal looking or above average, even.


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## VeMuñeca (Sep 5, 2013)

Well, I believe beauty is skin deep. Calling someone ugly based on their looks is way too harsh in my opinion. However, if someone has a nasty personality then yes they are ugly. 

If you do not find yourself attractive then do something to alternate your opinion. It is very hard to do that (true me). If that does not work then seek counseling.


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## 2Milk (Oct 29, 2014)

Ugly people just need to find someone that loves them. Who gives a crap what others think, as long as one person genuine loves you.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

Doby said:


> If you do not find yourself attractive then do something to alternate your opinion. It is very hard to do that (true me). If that does not work then seek counseling.


The OP literally says counseling doesn't help when you're ugly af yet you suggest people with low self-esteem (who are presumably ugly) do exactly that XD


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## VeMuñeca (Sep 5, 2013)

SaladDays said:


> The OP literally says counseling doesn't help when you're ugly af yet you suggest people with low self-esteem (who are presumably ugly) do exactly that XD


 OP wrote in their original post: "If after correcting these problems you still believe you are ugly, then perhaps you should seek a counselor. But do NOT be lured by the comforting diagnosis of BDD, which seems to suggest that no one is ugly. That's a fairy tale".

I am only offering my advice to help someone feel better. After all these are support forums. I like trying to help people see the positives of a situation.


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## atypicallytypical (Nov 23, 2015)

How interesting. I've never even heard of bdd before now..can't say I agree that a person's prerogative should be surgery if they are unhappy with the way they look though. It'd be nice if we were all pleasant to look at, but physical traits don't define our character. Might seem that way though but it's all perception and perception can change.


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## skyisblue (Nov 7, 2014)

LonelyUgly said:


> The fact of the matter is that beauty is overwhelmingly objective: It comes down to the symmetry of your facial halves and the proportions of your facial landmarks. That's it
> I should also add that attractiveness plays an enormous role in determining the quality of one's life (duh!). Therefore, people who are legitimately ugly have every reason to be distraught over their appearance. They have every reason to be depressed and -- depending on the severity of their ugliness -- suicidal. I firmly believe that in some cases of incorrigible ugliness, death is a realistic option.
> 
> .


Beauty isn't just based on face.

If there is a body part that is most noticed in beauty, yes, it is face, but with women in particularly, body shape is focused on a lot.

Espeically with all the tight clothes women wear nowadays.

I've noticed a trend. The people you are talking about that have such a problem with their appearance tend to have SA issues.

I believe their problem is more related to having SA and being shy.

I myself am above average looking yet have lived quite a rough life compared to the average person and have had a lot of depression throughout my life.

If a so called ugly person were to be transformed to a hot person I believe they would still be having problems with depression because it's not the "ugliness" that's the problem, it's the fact that they struggle to connect with other people on a social level.


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## Nernef (Nov 21, 2015)

All of the people I've seen on forums that posted their photo and known elsewhere that have BDD were above average looking, but I'm sure there are legit cases where that isn't so. If you have it, you have it. But yes in reality it would be harder for the below average people, because they would rarely get any validation from others saying they actually look attractive [not that the attractive ones listen, or believe it anyway].


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