# Where are all of the Intelligent, Strong-willed, Nice Girls?



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

I see this get asked quite a bit. And honestly I never had a clue or any opinion on it until recently.

I am now more convinced that this is a defense mechanism used by guys to try to make themselves feel better. The question is asked, but it's intended rhetorically: the conclusion that these people come to is that there aren't very many around. More specifically, there aren't any around them.

The harsh reality is that these men simply aren't desirable to these females, who know they could probably do better than some clingy, desperate guy with insecurity issues. Because it's not them, it can't be them who is at fault, _the environment is the one to blame_. They're just victims of circumstance. It's denial at best, and altered perception of reality at worst.

They can't be the one to blame. It can't. It _has_ to be something else. It isn't their fault. They're victims, it's not their fault. It's the girl's fault for falling for that arrogant guy. It's society's fault for teaching women to be a certain way. It's the environment's fault that there aren't any girls worth dating around.

It's this dangerously pathological thinking that pervades too many minds.

And these truly remarkable people are out there, lurking. I could, at this very instant, name at least five girls off the top of my head _from this very website_ who are driven, capable, and intelligent.

I quote, from one of these people, "I wouldn't date you, because _I'd rather focus on helping myself_." That's a level of determination and willpower rarely seen, not because I'm that desirable (I'm definitely not), but because _these girls are that driven to succeed_. Which fills me with a great hope for the future.

---

I can't say the same for males, but I'm sure it works the same with the roles reversed, and that good guys are really out there. I do have a more pessimistic view of my own sex, though.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I disagree. There are plenty of good catches that slip through the cracks.

I wasn't always this cynical. I believe there are some women that can see the good in men, but they are few and far between. There are too many damaged women out there, and this leads to a massive surplus of anger, bitter, and lonely, frustrated virgins.

From my experience, the women that have good heads on their shoulders marry early, and stay married, while the rest are either insecure (and therefore date the wrong man) or socially anxious (and therefore date nobody.)


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Sacrieur said:


> *I do have a more pessimistic view of my own sex, though*.


I really hope one day your white-knighting gets you the girl of your dreams, and she tramples all over you with spikes.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

If you stopped believing the theory that women are attracted to confidence, you may be getting closer to the truth. 

They are just as shallow as men (if not more) in their own way.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

TPower said:


> They are just as shallow as men (if not more) in their own way.


There are easier ways to get to China, you really don't have to dig your way there.


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## O Range (Feb 11, 2013)

Answer: They are all already taken.

Just getting the stock replies out of the way.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

I agree slightly...it is definitely a defense mechanism, but it's more due to the fact that guys on here aren't putting themselves out there enough to discover the truth - that awesome, single girls are ****ing EVERYWHERE. It's understandable, since SA prevents us from doing everything we want to do and approaching girls is scary no matter who you are. But the longer guys hide away from the world for years every time they get rejected instead of saying **** it and picking themselves back up and talking to more girls, the more bitter they get. 

Look at bwidger. The guy is on fire, but at first he was getting rejected all over the place. He could have just gotten bitter and closed himself down and blamed the world, but instead he just looked inside himself for the answer. He worked on his conversational skills by talking to more girls, and then more girls, and more, and more...and more. And now he gets approximately 1.1 zillion numbers a day. He wasn't born with that ability, he learned it. He practiced it. And now girls can see the good in him because he knows how to communicate with them.

SA guys who talk to one girl every year and expect amazing success are completely delusional. They expect the perfect girl that sees the goodness of their soul to just walk up to them and fall in love. It's just not gonna happen.


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## awkwardsilent (Jun 14, 2012)

These girls want you to make the move, I'm sorry but its true, I am NOT one of these mythical girls you are looking for. I can admit that I AM damaged , and I'm not physically attractive so thats enough I get that i'm not one of the desirable ones. 

My BFF's however are, career girls, who are gorgeous {not just according to me, lots of people refer to them as beautiful and wonder why they are single} and have their crap together. Lots of guys CRUSH on them, but you know who actually gets the play? The guy who actually makes the moves, who not only talks to them but is clear about his intentions.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

I didn't really read the thread, I'm just responding based on the title.

They're _everywhere_. I have really nice and intelligent girls/women in my IOP, I met them at my residential facility (out of like 34 girls, there were only 2 that I didn't like because they were obnoxious/mean). They're literally everywhere. You just need to like, talk to them. And guys on here don't do that. So they don't seem like there are any. But there are. You just have to like, talk.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Nice and intelligent doesn't necessarily mean single.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

I know what you mean Rymo, but how many relationships or even sexual partners has bwidger gained from those zillion numbers?


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

srschirm said:


> I know what you mean Rymo, but how many relationships or even sexual partners has bwidger gained from those zillion numbers?


You would have to ask him. He seems to be dating up a storm but that's just my perception.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

I know so many nice girls. the thing that stumps guys on here is that WE DONT WANT JERKS. lol What ever happened to holding a door? When a guy holds a door for me I check him out and say thank you and see where a conversation goes.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

TheTraveler said:


> I know so many nice girls. the thing that stumps guys on here is that WE DONT WANT JERKS. lol What ever happened to holding a door? When a guy holds a door for me I check him out and say thank you and see where a conversation goes.


I do this all the time and no one starts a conversation with me. Sometimes I don't even get a thank you. You must be a gem.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

srschirm said:


> I do this all the time and no one starts a conversation with me. Sometimes I don't even get a thank you. You must be a gem.


 That is so sad! Well I will thank you on their behalf.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Many women take gallantry for granted these days, so it has little meaning, if any at all.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

there all at Harvard..


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## Daktoria (Sep 21, 2010)

Define: intelligent.

Seriously, males and females seem to have radically different interpretations of the word.

To males, intelligence is deep thought about what's necessary for ideas to exist.

To females, intelligence is wide thought about what's possible for ideas to exist.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

I would want someone around as intelligent as me. The problem with dating for me is it requires being adept socially, not anxious, you have to have "small talk" conversations. I'm unable to do all of this, I can barely talk to someone I'm attracted to without looking like this







.
Actually I can't talk to someone I like offline.
So I've given up on trying to date and instead hope eventually a girl likes me.  Yep pathetic.


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## Daktoria (Sep 21, 2010)

Barette said:


> I didn't really read the thread, I'm just responding based on the title.
> 
> They're _everywhere_. I have really nice and intelligent girls/women in my IOP, I met them at my residential facility (out of like 34 girls, there were only 2 that I didn't like because they were obnoxious/mean). They're literally everywhere. You just need to like, talk to them. And guys on here don't do that. So they don't seem like there are any. But there are. You just have to like, talk.


What about those who don't have anything to talk about...

...because they're socially anxious?


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

You called?


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

I've met a few. "A few" equals a high percentage of people, for I meet not many.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

[email protected]


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

TheTraveler said:


> That is so sad! Well I will thank you on their behalf.


Thanks Traveler.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Daktoria said:


> Define: intelligent.
> 
> Seriously, males and females seem to have radically different interpretations of the word.
> 
> ...


Interesting thought there.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Daktoria said:


> What about those who don't have anything to talk about...
> 
> ...because they're socially anxious?


I often feel weird, like I don't know what to say when I first meet a woman. I like to dive into the "deep" topics fairly soon, skipping some of the smalltalk. And sometimes (and this may just be my anxiety), I feel like some women aren't interested in conversation period.


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## 9mm (Feb 12, 2013)

Churches.
Libraries.
Art galleries.
Museums



Sacrieur said:


> I can't say the same for males, but I'm sure it works the same with the roles reversed, and that good guys are really out there. I do have a more pessimistic view of my own sex, though.


It's become fashionable for a man to espouse this kind of view, because by being self-depreciating in this way he can portray himself as an easy-going, laid-back, modern and enlightened man, which will score him points socially and make him appear more likeable to everyone. The truth is women are just as bad and shallow as men.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

galacticsenator said:


> I would want someone around as intelligent as me. The problem with dating for me is it requires being adept socially, not anxious, you have to have "small talk" conversations. I'm unable to do all of this, I can barely talk to someone I'm attracted to without looking like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're still young man. I was pretty bad socially at around 15/16 but I picked up when I reached 21.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Paper Samurai said:


> You're still young man. I was pretty bad socially at around 15/16 but I picked up when I reached 21.


And being on here and hearing about people at 30 and still like this doesn't help. I've always been bad socially, this isn't new


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

galacticsenator said:


> And being on here and hearing about people at 30 and still like this doesn't help


Don't overthink it (trust me on that!)


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Paper Samurai said:


> Don't overthink it (trust me on that!)


 This is good advice for a lot of different situations in life.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Daktoria said:


> What about those who don't have anything to talk about...
> 
> ...because they're socially anxious?


They still have things to talk about. The anxiety is in the way. Which is something to get over, cause who wants to spend their entire life with nothing to talk about?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Sacrieur said:


> There are easier ways to get to China, you really don't have to dig your way there.


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Tanya1 said:


> Yeah, you're right. Guy's should never say anything nice about women, it's not like women like that. They want men to say horrible things about them all the time.


No he wrote that he has a low opinion of his own gender meanwhile he puts the other gender on a pedestal(the problem with the knights in general). That's what I was commenting on. :no


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

theseventhkey said:


> I really hope one day your white-knighting gets you the girl of your dreams, and she tramples all over you with spikes.


Some guys are into that you know


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Sindelle said:


> Some guys are into that you know


lol, some men have no shame. :lol


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

theseventhkey said:


> No he wrote that he has a low opinion of his own gender meanwhile he puts the other gender on a pedestal(the problem with the knights in general). That's what I was commenting on. :no


Perhaps you should reread what I have written.

I made what I passed off as an objective viewpoint, and then added something about males that was intended to come off as _opinionated and biased_, which it is.


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Sacrieur said:


> I do have a more pessimistic view of my own sex, though


Good luck, with everything my man. I hope you get your wish.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

theseventhkey said:


> Good luck, with everything my man.


See, I can take things out of context too.


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## HustleRose (Jun 19, 2009)

_The harsh reality is that these men simply aren't desirable to these females, who know they could probably do better than some clingy, desperate guy with insecurity issues. _

Buuuuuuurn. But so true.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I suppose I should just accept that somewhere out there, there is someone for me, and until I find her I shouldn't overthink it.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I should just accept that somewhere out there, there is someone for me, and until I find her I shouldn't overthink it.


:yes I'm thinking that too.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I should just accept that somewhere out there, there is someone for me, and until I find her I shouldn't overthink it.


Overthinking is a common liability for us.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

HustleRose said:


> _The harsh reality is that these men simply aren't desirable to these females, who know they could probably do better than some clingy, desperate guy with insecurity issues. _
> 
> Buuuuuuurn. But so true.


So then what is your advice?


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

srschirm said:


> So then what is your advice?


man the **** up. lol!!!


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

TheTraveler said:


> man the **** up. lol!!!


o rly?


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

srschirm said:


> o rly?


yup. that means holding the god damn door for the girl. and giving her god damn flowers when you take her out. and you better pay for that dinner that she wont eat! lol


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

TheTraveler said:


> yup. that means holding the god damn door for the girl. and giving her god damn flowers when you take her out. and you better pay for that dinner that she wont eat! lol


Your sense of entitlement is mind blowing. If I ever date someone like you with such an angry, *****y attitude, I'm sticking her with the bill.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

arnie said:


> Your sense of entitlement is mind blowing. If I ever date someone like you, I'm sticking her with the bill.


:roll 
It was called sarcasm. Why do you follow me around to insult me? can you please just stop. you are really putting me in a bad mood.

If you ever met me (which i hope never happens considering your hatred of women) i actually eat a bunch. But i am a female so keep on hating cause that all you do.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

arnie said:


> Your sense of entitlement is mind blowing. If I ever date someone like you, I'm sticking her with the bill.


It clearly was a joke. I could even tell that much.


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## Glass Child (Feb 28, 2013)

Half are in hiding, and the other quarters are A- taken or B- think you're creepy.

Personally, I find guys with a little insecurity attractive. Why? Because it shows they are emotional too, and have things they also fear. Not like women should be treated special or be allowed to whine while guys have to tough it up because society says "Be a man you puss!"

To find them, really just try to search around and look for the emotionally hurt ones. If you treat them well enough they'll stick to you and form a bond to you like glue.

Society is really f***ed up nowadays. I truly wonder where everyone is going to end up in around 10-50 years from now... everything is messed up and out of place. It hurts when I hear males criticizing the female gender, but I can't blame them sometimes... and I can't blame the sweet girls out there criticizing males for treating them like s***.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

Lynvana said:


> Personally, I find guys with a little insecurity attractive. Why? Because it shows they are emotional too, and have things they also fear. Not like women should be treated special or be allowed to whine while guys have to tough it up because society says "Be a man you puss!"
> 
> Society is really f***ed up nowadays. I truly wonder where everyone is going to end up in around 10-50 years from now... everything is messed up and out of place. It hurts when I hear males criticizing the female gender, but I can't blame them sometimes... and I can't blame the sweet girls out there criticizing males for treating them like s***.


Thank you for this. You can't truly open up to someone unless your willing to be vulnerable and talk about your insecurities. It's a good thing.

Sexism is damaging to men too. We shouldn't be forced into a rigid gender role where we are not allowed to express our feelings. Everyone needs someone now and again and no Man should have to hide behind a tough guy facade just so people will respect him.

This is why the whole, "man up" (prentend to be a douchey, PUA alpha male) thing bothers me so much. Any woman I get into a relationship with will eventually see the real me. I'm not going to compromise who I am just to fake my way into a relationship. That's just desperate. I'm going to be honest about my feelings and insecurities and if a self-enamored, *****y hot girl doesn't like that, then to hell with her. There are plenty of nice girls that I will much more enjoy spending time with.


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## Eyesontheskies (Jan 31, 2013)

Yeah I mean I can be classified as one of those girls. The problem is that I often get passed up by guys for girls that like to party and who sleep around a lot. Being intelligent, strong-willed and nice isn't exactly what most guys look for. A lot of them are just looking for a good time so they don't really go for girls like me I guess.


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## 7th.Streeter (May 11, 2011)

im not that smart but im nice and think I have a good personality ..idk when I was young I had this long list of standards some mostly invlving appearence and what not.. I think once you kinda broaden your horizon you'll find what your looking for.


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

Thats funny OP cause I was just thinking I see this get asked quite a bit. And honestly I never had a clue or any opinion on it until recently.

I am now more convinced that this is a defense mechanism used by women to try to make themselves feel better. The question is asked, but it's intended rhetorically: the conclusion that these people come to is that there aren't very many around. More specifically, there aren't any around them.

The harsh reality is that these women simply aren't desirable to these males, who know they could probably do better than some clingy, desperate girl with insecurity issues. Because it's not them, it can't be them who is at fault, the environment is the one to blame. They're just victims of circumstance. It's denial at best, and altered perception of reality at worst.

They can't be the one to blame. It can't. It has to be something else. It isn't their fault. They're victims, it's not their fault. It's the guys fault for falling for that beautiful girl. It's society's fault for teaching men to be a certain way. It's the environment's fault that there aren't any guys worth dating around.

It's this dangerously pathological thinking that pervades too many minds.

And these truly remarkable people are out there, lurking. I could, at this very instant, name at least five guys off the top of my head from this very website who are driven, capable, and intelligent.

I quote, from one of these people, "I wouldn't date you, because I'd rather focus on helping myself." That's a level of determination and willpower rarely seen, not because I'm that desirable (I'm definitely not), but because these dudes are that driven to succeed. Which fills me with a great hope for the future.

---

I can't say the same for females, but I'm sure it works the same with the roles reversed, and that good girls are really out there. I do have a more pessimistic view of the other sex, though.


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## 7th.Streeter (May 11, 2011)

awkwardsilent said:


> These girls want you to make the move, I'm sorry but its true,* I am NOT one of these mythical girls you are looking for. I can admit that I AM damaged , and I'm not physically attractive so thats enough I get that i'm not one of the desirable ones.
> *
> My BFF's however are, career girls, who are gorgeous {not just according to me, lots of people refer to them as beautiful and wonder why they are single} and have their crap together. Lots of guys CRUSH on them, but you know who actually gets the play? The guy who actually makes the moves, who not only talks to them but is clear about his intentions.


This. well Im not that smart and I have a load to wrk on..but I believe there is someone out there for me.


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Right here. Approached my current boyfriend first. And now we're happily dating.


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## merryk (Dec 25, 2008)

"Intelligent, strong-willed, nice girls" are around. If they're not appealing on a physical level to someone in passing then they won't be "seen" and therefore one won't make a move to talk with them and find out they're intelligent, etc. 
Men and women alike.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Whenever I see the title of this thread it makes me say "Where all the white women at?" in my head. God, Blazing Saddles is such a great movie.


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## Sagacious (Jun 29, 2010)

When you say they're blaming their circumstances or the environment around them, they're generally talking about being ugly/short, genetically at a disadvantage to attracting girls, they're not blaming their lack of social skills or their personality. 

You have slightly more control over your personality and behavior(I don't believe in free will, but it's arguable), but almost entirely no control over your looks (aside from makeup, hairstyle, dress etc.)

You can't argue against this in the real world (people will just laugh at you), but on the internet everyone tries to be objective and treat everyone as if they're equal. Truth is, no one is equal. Maybe equal legal rights, but that's it. The difference is genetics, and you can't change genetics just by ignoring it or telling people to 'man up' because they should be more confident with such inferior genetics. Ha.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Sagacious said:


> When you say they're blaming their circumstances or the environment around them, they're generally talking about being ugly/short, genetically at a disadvantage to attracting girls, they're not blaming their lack of social skills or their personality.
> 
> You have slightly more control over your personality and behavior(I don't believe in free will, but it's arguable), but almost entirely no control over your looks (aside from makeup, hairstyle, dress etc.)
> 
> You can't argue against this in the real world (people will just laugh at you), but on the internet everyone tries to be objective and treat everyone as if they're equal. Truth is, no one is equal. Maybe equal legal rights, but that's it. The difference is genetics, and you can't change genetics just by ignoring it or telling people to 'man up' because they should be more confident with such inferior genetics. Ha.


No I get it, it's not your fault. Why be confident about something that's not your fault, right? We should just accept who we are and that's not gonna realistically change. Appearance matters first and foremost, and you gotta have great genetics to look good. You gotta have the right genes and status to succeed in this world. Because that's the hard truth, right?

---

I don't think you get it. I don't think I could explain it to you. That's some party boat you and TPower have tied yourselves to.


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## Sagacious (Jun 29, 2010)

Sacrieur said:


> No I get it, it's not your fault. Why be confident about something that's not your fault, right? We should just accept who we are and that's not gonna realistically change. Appearance matters first and foremost, and you gotta have great genetics to look good. You gotta have the right genes and status to succeed in this world. Because that's the hard truth, right?


It's funny how sarcastic your post is when what you said is essentially true. No it doesn't mean give up, but this is generally what 'nice' or 'shy' guys are complaining about, not being too shy or too nice. 
Because the good looking nice/shy guys have plenty of attention from girls, confidence or not, they aren't complaining on an anxiety forum or spending all their time on the internet.

You try to make my post look ridiculous by claiming "You gotta have the right genes and status to succeed in this world", but that is not what I'm saying.

Obviously, genetics plays a large role in success in money and dating. For example, height is 75% genetics, only 25% environment/diet. I could pull out MANY more sources and examples to back this up, but it will only have negative results on the people reading these studies and you will continue to latch on to your own ideas you've adopted in this world to attract women, no matter what I say or what evidence there is. It seems like you've listened to what women say too much, and not how they actually act.

I'm sure you'll pull out some unique circumstances in which what I said isn't true, but those are just outliers(statistically stand out from the average/rest of the situations).

A lot of people seem to forget that confidence is mostly a lie(unless you're born with genetic 'lottery'). Even to those that are truly confident. People who have general confidence may be confident about everything, even if they have no skill in it. Even though confidence is a lie, there have been studies shown that confidence in an ability (and in learning) increases the skill and ability to remember information. IMO it's the brain's way of surpassing emotions and acting on 'logic' alone, that is, to achieve some goal without the negative interference of emotion, or using a positive 'confident' emotion to support the act.


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## Isabelle50 (Nov 19, 2012)

Barette said:


> Whenever I see the title of this thread it makes me say "Where all the *white* women at?" in my head. God, Blazing Saddles is such a great movie.


You RACIST!!!!

:lol


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## northstar1991 (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm here!


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## flamingwind (Jan 1, 2013)

Sagacious said:


> It's funny how sarcastic your post is when what you said is essentially true. No it doesn't mean give up, but this is generally what 'nice' or 'shy' guys are complaining about, not being too shy or too nice.
> Because the good looking nice/shy guys have plenty of attention from girls, confidence or not, they aren't complaining on an anxiety forum or spending all their time on the internet.
> 
> You try to make my post look ridiculous by claiming "You gotta have the right genes and status to succeed in this world", but that is not what I'm saying.
> ...


No point in replying to that guy, all he is going to do is misinterpret your points and reach conclusions that just doesn't make sense. Then he's going to use sarcasms to make himself sound more interesting or try make other feel bad.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I think there are a lot of great single girls, but they probably aren't attracted to shy, quiet guys.

Which is the essence of social anxiety. This is why so many guys with SA complain on here, and women with SA get into relationships? Shyness is a feminine trait, therefore it is desirable to men, and not women.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't think shyness is a feminine trait.


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> I think there are a lot of great single girls, but they probably aren't attracted to shy, quiet guys.
> 
> Which is the essence of social anxiety. This is why so many guys with SA complain on here, and women with SA get into relationships? Shyness is a feminine trait, therefore it is desirable to men, and not women.


Actually I think a lot of the women with SA are dating these shy guys.


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## HustleRose (Jun 19, 2009)

srschirm said:


> So then what is your advice?





TheTraveler said:


> man the **** up. lol!!!


Pretty much what she said.

Start taking responsibility for your own **** and don't expect every woman to be flawless.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Sagacious said:


> Obviously, genetics plays a large role in success in money and dating. For example, height is 75% genetics, only 25% environment/diet. I could pull out MANY more sources and examples to back this up, but it will only have negative results on the people reading these studies and you will continue to latch on to your own ideas you've adopted in this world to attract women, no matter what I say or what evidence there is.


Height is a physical attribute. Can you get studies that show the same for cognitive attributes?



> A lot of people seem to forget that confidence is mostly a lie(unless you're born with genetic 'lottery'). Even to those that are truly confident. People who have general confidence may be confident about everything, even if they have no skill in it. Even though confidence is a lie, there have been studies shown that confidence in an ability (and in learning) increases the skill and ability to remember information. IMO it's the brain's way of surpassing emotions and acting on 'logic' alone, that is, to achieve some goal without the negative interference of emotion, or using a positive 'confident' emotion to support the act.


Interesting cognitive theory on how confidence works. I'm not exactly certain that's actually the case.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I supposed I phrased that badly, once again.

Shyness is not necessarily a feminine trait, but it's forgiven more easily in women. And men are generally attracted to shy girls...I know I am. I find it cute.

As a man, however, I've often felt like I have to go against my shy nature (which is to blush and talk in a soft voice), because women aren't attracted to that. It's not so cute in men, and if a girl actually found that cute in a guy, I'd like to get to know her.


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## Soilwork (May 14, 2012)

The thing with shyness is that it is going to have a much greater impact on a man looking for a date/relationship than it is for a women, as the former is still expected to be the one doing the asking.

Women on SAS may claim that shyness is cute but the majority of women who don't have SA are going to find it a real turn off.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Soilwork said:


> The thing with shyness is that it is going to have a much greater impact on a man looking for a date/relationship than it is for a women, as the former is still expected to be the one doing the asking.
> 
> Women on SAS may claim that shyness is cute but the majority of women who don't have SA are going to find it a real turn off.


Exactly. And a point I was trying to make in a different thread.

I guarantee you that 99.9% of the guys on here who are older, frustrated virgins are that way because they are shy around women. Not because they are sociopaths.

Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer weren't exactly virgins.


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## gomenne (Oct 3, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> Exactly. And a point I was trying to make in a different thread.
> 
> I guarantee you that 99.9% of the guys on here who are older, frustrated virgins are that way because they are shy around women. Not because they are sociopaths.
> 
> Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer weren't exactly virgins.


:fall
I guess I must be some weird looking abomination since no guy has ever done the first move with me. I dont know how you can explain girls like me who have never had any guys "chasing" them since it's so easy for women to get picked up by guys all the time ?? Posts like this make me depressed :rain


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Sin said:


> Its okay, I'm sure some guy has probably taken a fancy to you but was just to scared to approach you  :squeeze


or maybe ignored, we will never know.


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## Invisiblehandicap (Jul 31, 2011)

When people say nice what they really mean is outgoing, friendly and bubbly. 

Then you are asking for intelligent, which means someone that is immediately obviously intelligent without you having to find out. This means said girl must speak in using "intelligent" words and not necessarily be intelligent.

By strong willed you mean what exactly? There is little way to determine this easily so I suppose you mean successful?

So in reality you are asking of a woman on first impression to be outgoing, friendly and bubbly, speaks using "intelligent" words, and is successful AND you like her. Is this too much to ask that there is a lot of single women like this? Yes it is. 

Also in response to other comments I have never seen any guys fawning over shy girls or girls that appear shy from my perspective.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Invisiblehandicap said:


> When people say nice what they really mean is outgoing, friendly and bubbly.


Caring and playful tend to be my big things, but I didn't lump playful in here with it, because it was more a general thing. So really just caring.



> Then you are asking for intelligent, which means someone that is immediately obviously intelligent without you having to find out. This means said girl must speak in using "intelligent" words and not necessarily be intelligent.


I use intelligent in every meaning of the word. My perception is sharp enough that I can tell the difference between pseudo-intelligence and legitimate brains.

I swear I'm not a zombie or anything. :um



> By strong willed you mean what exactly? There is little way to determine this easily so I suppose you mean successful?


Strength of will; will power, tenacity. The mental attribute of being unwilling to surrender during struggle. It's marked by persistence and conviction even against great odds (to the person who, even after their 100th loss, still want a rematch).



> So in reality you are asking of a woman on first impression to be outgoing, friendly and bubbly, speaks using "intelligent" words, and is successful AND you like her. Is this too much to ask that there is a lot of single women like this? Yes it is.


Don't care about being friendly or bubbly. Interesting is what sticks out to me the most. Cute is obviously a great attribute to get my attention. Success is irrelevant. Ambition and confidence go hand in hand with strength of will.

Not that this is about me.


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## Gracie97 (Jan 17, 2013)

*"It's the girl's fault for falling for that arrogant guy."*

Well blaming the female isn't gonna help things, is it?
Blaming anyone is not going to help.


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## Gracie97 (Jan 17, 2013)

HustleRose said:


> _The harsh reality is that these men simply aren't desirable to these females, who know they could probably do better than some clingy, desperate guy with insecurity issues. _
> 
> Buuuuuuurn. But so true.


Hmmm, I believe that these insecure males who are clingy might just need some love. (LOL that sounds so weird) 
I don't judge them or instantly label them as "undesirable". 
And I am a very strong willed, independent female. 
It doesn't make me judgmental.
I hope they find a woman who loves them )


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Gracie97 said:


> *"It's the girl's fault for falling for that arrogant guy."*
> 
> Well blaming the female isn't gonna help things, is it?
> Blaming anyone is not going to help.


No it won't.


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## AngelInnocent (May 27, 2012)

These girls are few and far between. The most important thing I learned is what my mother told me: Take care of yourself and it will all fall into place.


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## vatefairefoutre (Mar 21, 2013)

wow frick you lol


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