# Parnate, no desire to talk



## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

Ok so I've read a few posts where people have described that parnate makes them untalkative in social situations, I must say that is exactly what I am experiencing, and it was the same when i took nardil. Its true, the parnate makes you not care about others for some reason, I feel more secure in myself but less caring or interested in others. So my question is is there anything I can add to the parnate which will help this? Caffiene does help a bit, so does nicotine (not really a good option due to bad health effects).

At the moment I take magnesium and zinc for general health and deficiency, but I have a wide range of nootropics just sitting around waiting to be used. Anything that hits dopamine would be of some use i guess..


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

This happened with me on cymbalta. I'm already very quiet guy most of the time I don't know what to say to people. When I increased my dosage from 30mg to 60mg
I experienced more energy (probably due norepinephrine) but less interests in things.. 
-also sexual side effects as usual.
-my dilated pupils omg. they were huge and they stayed huge.
-constipation
-dry mouth and eyes (annoying when I use contacts)
-careless (less anxiety but not in a good way)
uh the positive effects? nothing.

I don't know what you can mix with parnate..


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crap.....i had a good post, and i deleted it. i was gonna say that yeah your description totally fits my experience on Parnate.

Sadly, there is not much stuff one could add to Parnate, due to its Tyramine crisis thingy. Nicotine and Caffeine both help me considerably, im hoping to aquire some 4mg nicotine gum in the future so i don't have to smoke like every 3 hours to feel better....oh and Nicotine, by itself, itsn't barely dangerous to your health. Its the smoke and carcinogens in Tobacco that are bad for your health. Pure nicotine won't do anything bad, except raise your blood pressure slightly...just like any other stimulant.

Theres TONS of stuff i WOULD add (to enhance dopamine)....but i can't because of the potential for a hypertensive crisis. Im not sure if Green Tea has ever caused problems, but some catechins such as EGCG are capable of inhibiting COMT (one of the enzymes that degrades dopamine). So u might get more dopamine from that.... a 5ht2c and 5ht6/5ht7 antagonist would help alot with enhancing dopaminergic function...as serotonin activates these receptors resulting in decreased dopaminergic function.

I really hope u can figure something out....cuz im pretty sure im gonna switch to something different. Parnate is simply not as effective as i had hoped..... I'd almost rather just take a low-dose SSRI + Dexedrine, Adderral, or Ritalin. It would do nearly the same thing....and honestly, from my experience, the combination felt MORE dopaminergic than Parnate ever has. Id just gotta use an NMDA antagonist and maybe MAO-
B inhibitor to enhance effects/decrease tolerance to the Adderral/Dexedrine.

what is the point of an MAOI if it doesnt do anything? its just like a slightly dopaminergic SSRI, for me at least. I know for some people it works great, and i hope it continues to do so.


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

VVV, you should try Prozac. 

I don't notice any social effects (positive/negative) on Parnate, just the alleviation of depression. Only med to work for that except for Prozac. I'm just happy that I'm not irritable, can get out of bed, do more stuff, and not wanna eat and sleep all day. It's great!


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

db0255 said:


> VVV, you should try Prozac.
> 
> I don't notice any social effects (positive/negative) on Parnate, just the alleviation of depression. Only med to work for that except for Prozac. I'm just happy that I'm not irritable, can get out of bed, do more stuff, and not wanna eat and sleep all day. It's great!


you know...its funny, ive never tried it. ive always wondered about it....because its been shown to act differently to all the other SSRIs, like you have mentioned previously. But what really interests me is its supposed 5ht2c antagonism....that is the difference. This might cause it to be more activating, as opposed to other SSRIs. I would really like to try, at least just to see if its different, at least a low dose....---

db0255-- have u taken any other SSRIs? how did Prozac differ/compare to them in terms of activation, side effects, and overall effectiveness?


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

OK, Prozac is the weirdest drug I've ever taken, and if you've followed my posts, it explains a lot. Definitely the best, but still weird. 

I say weird, because no one can explain pharmacologically why Prozac worked the way it did for me. I've taken Remeron, which is the 5-ht2c antagonism that you want, and it didn't compare. It got rid of the flinch/startle anxiety, but left me feeling weird/drugged.

Anyway, Prozac was activating as ****, and when I say that I mean it. It was more activating than a stimulant for me, but keep in mind I've only "done" caffeine and parnate. My brain was flipped ON with Prozac.

Other SSRIs I've tried were Lexapro, Paxil, Zoloft, and even Celexa. I've tried Strattera, St. John's Wort and Cymbalta also. A lot of crap. I had a lot of side effects with most, weight gain being the worst, and somnolescence being second. I'd say none of them were really activating at all.
Also, in terms of effectiveness, Prozac was transformative and the definition of a miracle drug for those of you on here. Honestly, it's the standard, and what others that have gotten probably the same relief (and advantages socially) with other drugs have seen in a best possible scenario. I wouldn't want you to get your hopes up like it will do the same for you, but I highly suggest reading Listening to Prozac to be pleasantly informed. 
Also, just for the fact that a small percentage of people have such a good result like I do, I'm surprised it isn't the first SSRI tried. You've tried so many drugs, that it's like...why the **** not, no? None have worked, this might be the best for you!


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

db0255 said:


> OK, Prozac is the weirdest drug I've ever taken, and if you've followed my posts, it explains a lot. Definitely the best, but still weird.
> 
> I say weird, because no one can explain pharmacologically why Prozac worked the way it did for me. I've taken Remeron, which is the 5-ht2c antagonism that you want, and it didn't compare. It got rid of the flinch/startle anxiety, but left me feeling weird/drugged.
> 
> ...


dude i know!!! ive tried pretty much everything there is, except prozac so theres no point in not trying it really (at a low dose in combination with a Dopaminergic Stimulant). the only reason i used to not want to take it was because of the 5ht2c antagonism....i assumed that due to its antagonism, the increased serotonin would not be able to downregulate 5ht2c receptors, and thus i would be stuck with overactive 5ht2c activity forever. but now after researching it more, i see that 5ht2c doesnt downregulate/upregulate in the same manner as most other receptors....and ive already been on Parnate for a month now....so if i take Prozac, im probably not gonna have the initial side effects that people get at the start of treatment, due to my already present Serotonin recepetor downregulation....

the only thing im worried about:: - at my next doctors appointment, im hoping to discuss a medication change. i have many different ideas/combinations that i believe may help,......i was gonna go for Dexedrine+Tramadol+Memantine. a long shot, i know....but there is a much higher chance i would get Dexedrine+Prozac.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

db0255 said:


> OK, Prozac is the weirdest drug I've ever taken, and if you've followed my posts, it explains a lot. Definitely the best, but still weird.
> 
> I say weird, because no one can explain pharmacologically why Prozac worked the way it did for me. I've taken Remeron, which is the 5-ht2c antagonism that you want, and it didn't compare. It got rid of the flinch/startle anxiety, but left me feeling weird/drugged.
> 
> ...


How were the sexual side effects on prozac? were they less than the other SSRI's you tried?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Great post rocknroll. Yeah i agree that agomelatine is our best option as an 5HT2C antagonist. Multiple doses a day would be needed tough with its short half life.

I never really jumped on the "anti 5HT2A bandwagon".


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

rocknroll714 said:


> SSRI/SNRI + NDRI/NDRA >>> MAOI both in terms of efficacy and tolerability, as well as in safety regarding food and drug interactions. Also throw in a benzodiazepine or pregabalin/gabapentin if you'd like to replicate phenelzine's GABAergic actions and you'll have quite a killer antidepressant/anxiolytic combination. Add in agomelatine as well and damn.. you'll have me drooling.


Id say an NDRA+Benzo+Agomelatine would be great enough, no need for the SSRI. The SSRI's we were all going to flush in the toilet.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

rocknroll714 said:


> SSRI/SNRI + NDRI/NDRA >>> MAOI both in terms of efficacy and tolerability, as well as in safety regarding food and drug interactions. Also throw in a benzodiazepine or pregabalin/gabapentin if you'd like to replicate phenelzine's GABAergic actions and you'll have quite a killer antidepressant/anxiolytic combination. Add in agomelatine as well and damn.. you'll have me drooling.
> 
> A receptor will generally never desensitize to or past the difference in the intensity it's being stimulated and its normal level of activity. In other words, 5-HT2C will not downregulate back to normal or lower in response to any duration of SSRI treatment -- you have to block it with an antagonist.
> 
> 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C are different from other GPCRs in that they desensitize in response both to agonists and antagonists, but I think you knew that already  I wonder how in the hell they manage to upregulate.. I guess that's mediated through absence of binding of any kind of ligand. Only explanation I can think of at least.


Hypericum can be used to upregulate 5HT2A and 5HT1A. Stress hormones are also capable of upregulating 5HT2A.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

rocknroll714 said:


> Okay, replace the SSRI with either tandospirone or an opioid (or both ).
> 
> I love daydreaming about crazy regimens, as you all can tell


Your not the only one. And yeah those sound like a great alternative.


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys tried cutting gluten and dairy out of your diet for a period of at least a month? There is increasing evidence that the proteins in these foods worsen and are even the main cause of depression, anxiety, autistic and schizophrenic symptomology. This is due to a number of reasons, one being that these foods break down into exorphins that mess around normal brain activity and prevent natural endorphins from working. Also the proteins damage and inflame the gut lining causing malabsorption problems, so the body cant assimilate key nutrients, particularly those needed for proper mental function.

I have been avoiding gluten and casein containing foods for about a week now and the transformation I am seeing is nothing short of miraculous, that combined with the effects of the parnate kicking in ofcourse.

The diet is tough though as most foods contain gluten and casein, but it is definately worth a shot. IT may be hard to start off with too as if you are allergic to these foods then you crave them almost like a drug as they make you feel better in the short term. If you cut them out cold turkey you can go through withdrawal which can bring on a wide variety of nasty symptoms, in my case I found that I was constantly thinking about the foods and how much I wanted to eat them, and the fact that I had to avoid them made me angry and depressed. Once you get past those first couple of days its smooth sailing though.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

I'm no fan of SSRI's, but I have to admit that in retrospect lexapro (oddly enough) helped to lessen my agoraphobia but not social-situation anxiety. I found myself able to leave the house more often on it. Mirtazapine is the complete opposite for me, it doesn't help with my OCD/agoraphobia at all, and I actually find myself more apathetic towards life, and less willing to leave the house. If mirtazapine didn't help me sleep, then honestly I'd throw it in the trash in a heartbeat.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

rocknroll714 said:


> SSRI/SNRI + NDRI/NDRA >>> MAOI both in terms of efficacy and tolerability, as well as in safety regarding food and drug interactions. Also throw in a benzodiazepine or pregabalin/gabapentin if you'd like to replicate phenelzine's GABAergic actions and you'll have quite a killer antidepressant/anxiolytic combination. Add in agomelatine as well and damn.. you'll have me drooling.


I agree with this, it's not that SSRI's are inherently bad, there just too incomplete.

As for a GABAergic my personal preferance would be for clonazepam due to the long half life.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys tried cutting gluten and dairy out of your diet for a period of at least a month? There is increasing evidence that the proteins in these foods worsen and are even the main cause of depression, anxiety, autistic and schizophrenic symptomology. This is due to a number of reasons, one being that these foods break down into exorphins that mess around normal brain activity and prevent natural endorphins from working. Also the proteins damage and inflame the gut lining causing malabsorption problems, so the body cant assimilate key nutrients, particularly those needed for proper mental function.
> 
> I have been avoiding gluten and casein containing foods for about a week now and the transformation I am seeing is nothing short of miraculous, that combined with the effects of the parnate kicking in ofcourse.
> 
> The diet is tough though as most foods contain gluten and casein, but it is definately worth a shot. IT may be hard to start off with too as if you are allergic to these foods then you crave them almost like a drug as they make you feel better in the short term. If you cut them out cold turkey you can go through withdrawal which can bring on a wide variety of nasty symptoms, in my case I found that I was constantly thinking about the foods and how much I wanted to eat them, and the fact that I had to avoid them made me angry and depressed. Once you get past those first couple of days its smooth sailing though.


I beleived in that anti diary crap for a while but its just a big scam, just like the anti aspartame bull****.
I am personally convinced that its the healthiest to go on a low carb diet, i cant do it myself tough, havent got the willpower:b.


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

Actually its very real, particularly gluten brain allergies, not so much dairy. I'm not saying everyone is sensitive, but I know for sure that I am and always have been. Just something for people to try if they are short on drug treatment options.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> SSRI/SNRI + NDRI/NDRA >>> MAOI both in terms of efficacy and tolerability, as well as in safety regarding food and drug interactions. Also throw in a benzodiazepine or pregabalin/gabapentin if you'd like to replicate phenelzine's GABAergic actions and you'll have quite a killer antidepressant/anxiolytic combination. Add in agomelatine as well and damn.. you'll have me drooling.
> 
> A receptor will generally never desensitize to or past the difference in the intensity it's being stimulated and its normal level of activity. In other words, 5-HT2C will not downregulate back to normal or lower in response to any duration of SSRI treatment -- you have to block it with an antagonist.
> 
> 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C are different from other GPCRs in that they desensitize in response both to agonists and antagonists, but I think you knew that already.  I wonder how in the hell they ever manage to upregulate.. I guess that's mediated through absence of binding of any kind of ligand. Only explanation I can think of at least.


yeah dude ive wondered a long time about that....like how SSRIs activate 5ht2c....i always thought they would cause a net decrease in 5ht2c function, like below a homeostasis level...but lotsa evidence suggests, like u said, that they are just gonna be constantly activated, which sucks.

i was like how is 5ht2a and 5ht2c gonna up regulate? and i had the same thoughts,,,like only in the absence of any ligand...cuz that might explain why i guess some people who have low 5-HT levels for a long time would maybe get upregulated 5ht2....?


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Your not the only one. And yeah those sound like a great alternative.


i can honestly say that for the last year, daydreaming about the ultimate euphoriogenic regimen has occupied at LEAST a minimum of 30 minutes per day, every day. sometimes it would be less, but other times it would be like multiple hours....back in the old days when i was still in high school, i would make tons and tons of lists of the best regimens for all the mental illnesses...now id have 2 revise them a little bit, since ive tried somma the stuff and seen that its not as good as i thought .. but still ...its all insane,,,


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> Okay, replace the SSRI with either tandospirone or an opioid (or both ).
> 
> 
> NDRI/NDRA + Tandospirone + Agomelatine + Opioid + Benzodiazepine
> ...


dude man thats like the complete perfect regimen....i dunno if it can get any better than that. i guess if the Opiate was Buprenorphine for Kappa opiate whatever.... dude if this is like your perfect regimen... its mine too. but i would add one more thing (nicotine, lololol) jk, or not jk, it all depends. i just love exhaling smoke. i don't know why. but Crazymed is right....smoking is bad...im gonna invent the first non-cancer causing cigarette ever. you would still be able to get cancer if you wanted too, (from just plain smoke) but there wouldn't be any carcinogens (Nornicotine, Anabasine, Anatabine) http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6929811.html ---but the funny thing is, these 3 chemicals are also strong MAOIs. so they are responsible for the reinforcement of nicotine administration, as well as the cancer part. so i need a reversible MAOI to put into a cigarette....


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> Okay, replace the SSRI with either tandospirone or an opioid (or both ).
> 
> 
> NDRI/NDRA + Tandospirone + Agomelatine + Opioid + Benzodiazepine
> ...


......could Buspirone, in any way, substitute for Tandospirone, or is Buspar just too crappy? and O-desmethyl Tramadol would be INSANE for the Opiate+5ht2c antagonist.....regular Tramadol=somewhat less awesome. I mean, with all the other medications, CYP2D6 isn't going to be that strong, so youd just get more Tramadol (=crap) and less O-desmethyl (=awesomeness)...i wish there was a way to induce CYP2D6. i know smoking induces CYP enzymes, but then i read elsewhere that it is IMposiible to induce CYP2D6....??


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys tried cutting gluten and dairy out of your diet for a period of at least a month? There is increasing evidence that the proteins in these foods worsen and are even the main cause of depression, anxiety, autistic and schizophrenic symptomology. This is due to a number of reasons, one being that these foods break down into exorphins that mess around normal brain activity and prevent natural endorphins from working. Also the proteins damage and inflame the gut lining causing malabsorption problems, so the body cant assimilate key nutrients, particularly those needed for proper mental function.
> 
> I have been avoiding gluten and casein containing foods for about a week now and the transformation I am seeing is nothing short of miraculous, that combined with the effects of the parnate kicking in ofcourse.
> 
> The diet is tough though as most foods contain gluten and casein, but it is definately worth a shot. IT may be hard to start off with too as if you are allergic to these foods then you crave them almost like a drug as they make you feel better in the short term. If you cut them out cold turkey you can go through withdrawal which can bring on a wide variety of nasty symptoms, in my case I found that I was constantly thinking about the foods and how much I wanted to eat them, and the fact that I had to avoid them made me angry and depressed. Once you get past those first couple of days its smooth sailing though.


i was forced to cut all dairy and gluten for over a month, by a natural doctor (he was a nice guy) who told me i was autistic...well i guess my symptoms could have looked like autism...but it was merely extreme depression, OCD, and Social Anxiety. i got multiple HUGE vitamin IVs, each one was about quarter of a gallon of intravenous Vitamins....but i could barely eat anything...vegetables and rice bread was all i could consume...it wasn't too bad. but it didn't help me at all..... on the other hand, Aspartame and MSG make me feel worse. i don't think its crap, its just youd have 2 eat alot of either to get any bad effects....but ya i get sick when i eat sugar free gum. =placebo effect lol.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> ......could Buspirone, in any way, substitute for Tandospirone, or is Buspar just too crappy? and O-desmethyl Tramadol would be INSANE for the Opiate+5ht2c antagonist.....regular Tramadol=somewhat less awesome. I mean, with all the other medications, CYP2D6 isn't going to be that strong, so youd just get more Tramadol (=crap) and less O-desmethyl (=awesomeness)...i wish there was a way to induce CYP2D6. i know smoking induces CYP enzymes, but then i read elsewhere that it is IMposiible to induce CYP2D6....??


Buspar is too crappy, in the doses that it should work there would be too much dopamine antagonism.
And yeah o-desmethyltramadol would be great, i'l need to order some asap. I dunno which properties are connected to tramadol and which to the metabolite tough, anyone can update me? (nmda antagonism, 5HT2C, serotonin reuptake,...)

My perfect regime would be:
Agomelatine + Dimebolin + Oxycodone + Dexedrine + Memantine + MDAI.

.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> i was forced to cut all dairy and gluten for over a month, by a natural doctor (he was a nice guy) who told me i was autistic...well i guess my symptoms could have looked like autism...but it was merely extreme depression, OCD, and Social Anxiety. i got multiple HUGE vitamin IVs, each one was about quarter of a gallon of intravenous Vitamins....but i could barely eat anything...vegetables and rice bread was all i could consume...it wasn't too bad. but it didn't help me at all..... on the other hand, Aspartame and MSG make me feel worse. i don't think its crap, its just youd have 2 eat alot of either to get any bad effects....but ya i get sick when i eat sugar free gum. =placebo effect lol.


Lol, stay as far away as you could from those idiots and other "natural docters" etc..


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Lol, stay as far away as you could from those idiots and other "natural docters" etc..


totally...man. im not discrediting them or anything, they do help some people. but from my experiences, they usually don't help at all...my parents wasted over 1500$ trying to help me get better with the "natural" doctors...didn't help at all.im glad they tried to help me . its just...i wish natural and pharmacological doctors would join together and stop denying each other's practices....and join the two together at least. youre right..but its all a grey area man....natural docs do help some people...so i can't really bash them....most humans don't have a clue about anything anyway...i mean gosh, we used to think the world was flat. we still think we are the only life forms in the universe (aliens do exist, BTW) --natural docs are idiots,.but so are psychiatrists, and, sadly, i must admit i can be an idiot lots of the time. lol


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Buspar is too crappy, in the doses that it should work there would be too much dopamine antagonism.
> And yeah o-desmethyltramadol would be great, i'l need to order some asap. I dunno which properties are connected to tramadol and which to the metabolite tough, anyone can update me? (nmda antagonism, 5HT2C, serotonin reuptake,...)
> 
> My perfect regime would be:
> ...


it would be really hard to determine which properties are due to which compound, as not many studies have been done on O-desmethyl in regards to its pharmacologic activity, and also, any study on tramadol would also include O-desmethyl in its mechanisms of action...so like i dunno, the only way to really figure it out would be to get pure O-desmethyl and test it.

dude your regimen is the bomb. dude i would substitute my perfect regimen for yours, but i had to compromise, cuz i wanted to make one that was feasible for me to do in the next couple months i guess. the only thing i would add to yer regimen (if i was taking it) is ....a low dose of K-pin? and a low dose of Riluzole, and low dose Ketamine once every Week maybe, and very very low dose of Amisulpride? .....its just the 5ht7 antagonism and GHB agonism sounds sweet....i just dunno what interaction it would have with D2/D3, and if it would decrease the positive effects of the other stuff.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I take GHB for hedonistic purposes, 2 doses a day, its not part of my social anxiety regime but its just for getting euphoria. I dont see much reason for a low dose of a benzo, a low dose riluzole wont be needed as i'm taking memantine allready, and a low dose of ketamine i dont see much reason for either?
The problem with amisulpiride is the prolactin. I may add in trivastal to counteract the release in prolactin.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I take GHB for hedonistic purposes, 2 doses a day, its not part of my social anxiety regime but its just for getting euphoria. I dont see much reason for a low dose of a benzo, a low dose riluzole wont be needed as i'm taking memantine allready, and a low dose of ketamine i dont see much reason for either?
> The problem with amisulpiride is the prolactin.


oh lol i was talking bout if i was gonna take it ...just to enhance the effects even more. yeah i dont like prolactin much. mabye ill forget the amisulpride.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Amisulpiride worked great in the past to motivate me tough, unfortinally i stopped taking it and it never worked again.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> oh lol i was talking bout if i was gonna take it ...just to enhance the effects even more. yeah i dont like prolactin much. mabye ill forget the amisulpride.


I'm gonna make a pharmacology thread to talk about all this stuff, we need one here


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Yeah, Parnate can give you that foggy false contentment thing. Then again, some people really get amped up on it. 

I think Parnate does something with my sleep cycles that makes me a bit out of it at times. I'm on super low doses of my meds now (see signature). I couldn't be happier.


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> Actually its very real, particularly gluten brain allergies, not so much dairy. I'm not saying everyone is sensitive, but I know for sure that I am and always have been. Just something for people to try if they are short on drug treatment options.


Yeah, I would agree with crazyzmed about this being a load of crap. If you started the gluten-free at the same time as starting parnate and you feel miraculous better, odds are it's 100% due to the parnate!


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

Lol, obviously not the right forum to be suggesting elimination diets. You may think its a load of crap, try telling that to countless people who have coeliac disease with severe digestive complaints when consuming gluten. Isnt it fair to think whatever damages the intestines is going to affect the whole body, including the brain and nervous system? Anyway everyone has their own opinion.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> Lol, obviously not the right forum to be suggesting elimination diets. You may think its a load of crap, try telling that to countless people who have coeliac disease with severe digestive complaints when consuming gluten. Isnt it fair to think whatever damages the intestines is going to affect the whole body, including the brain and nervous system? Anyway everyone has their own opinion.


I think you have a point, your certainly not incorrect by any means, but I think that overall only a small percentage of the population are suffering from these symptoms due to dietary problems.


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob (Nov 26, 2008)

Just an update on the parnate, it does seem to have a positive effect on concentration. My thinking is so much more clear and I am preforming much better at work. It does make me crave cigarettes a lot more which is not a good thing, and makes smoking a lot more pleasurable which was the same on nardil. I'm up to 30mg a day and noticed that my outlook is a lot brighter and everything seems a lot better. I can be in a social situation and not worry about how others perceive me as much. Also sleeping feels really good.

I have been taking b vitamins and zinc as well which seem to enhance the effects of the parnate. I also have some left over phenibut and idebenone which seem to go well with the parnate also.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> Just an update on the parnate, it does seem to have a positive effect on concentration. My thinking is so much more clear and I am preforming much better at work. It does make me crave cigarettes a lot more which is not a good thing, and makes smoking a lot more pleasurable which was the same on nardil. I'm up to 30mg a day and noticed that my outlook is a lot brighter and everything seems a lot better. I can be in a social situation and not worry about how others perceive me as much. Also sleeping feels really good.
> 
> I have been taking b vitamins and zinc as well which seem to enhance the effects of the parnate. I also have some left over phenibut and idebenone which seem to go well with the parnate also.


Great news.


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## haboboyo (Apr 4, 2012)

*try potassium*



Freesix88 said:


> This happened with me on cymbalta. I'm already very quiet guy most of the time I don't know what to say to people. When I increased my dosage from 30mg to 60mg
> I experienced more energy (probably due norepinephrine) but less interests in things..
> -also sexual side effects as usual.
> -my dilated pupils omg. they were huge and they stayed huge.
> ...


i have recently noticed when i consume foods with potassium I'm in much more talkative state, i feel awesome. also try eating some stuff with vitamin c and omega-3.


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## Oioioi123 (Nov 1, 2011)

haboboyo said:


> i have recently noticed when i consume foods with potassium I'm in much more talkative state, i feel awesome. also try eating some stuff with vitamin c and omega-3.


 considering this thread is 3 years old im sure he figured it out...


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## miminka (May 10, 2009)

just gonna hijack this considering this thread is old yet the title is relevant to what i'm experiencing now:

just today and yesterday i've noticed (the two days where i decided to half the dose- take one portion in the morning and the other early afternoon) i don't have the onset stimulating effects which i do miss. my mood is very stable and baseline mood is raised to a comfortable, productive level. but i don't have the desire to talk to anyone, really. i feel like i have nothing to say. i don't know if it has anything to do with simply not caring as much about what others think.. though i'm definitely experiencing that. 

i feel kind of robotic. wondering if i'll continue feeling this way once the dose is increased? (20mg currently) for some reason, it's a bit comforting.


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## infinityplusone (Jun 5, 2011)

I take 40mg Parnate, and find that fasting for a couple of days (I don't keep food in the house when I do this), strenuous exercise on an exercise bike for an hour, plenty of rest and I mean plenty of rest - in excess of 8 hours sleep - even taking something for sleep helps, also lifting small lot of weights i.e. dumbbells, and lastly, alternating between hot and cold in the shower stimulates me. This all makes me feel better and more likely to talk.

When I've been on Effexor XR for any length of time in the past, I occasionally struggled getting the appropriate words out. It felt like I went mute at times. That was frustrating.

Parnate sometimes sends me back into my shell as an introvert (my normal baseline) which usually means I haven't slept well, or had enough sleep. When taking Valium in a decent dosage, I notice I'm more talkative. Nevertheless, even if I'm less talkative, generally that's my nature - plus Parnate gives me the confidence to be quiet, not feel guilty, and it makes me feel like I used to feel, before the Chronic Major Depression kicked in 20 years ago.


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## miminka (May 10, 2009)

infinityplusone said:


> *Parnate sometimes sends me back into my shell as an introvert (my normal baseline) which usually means I haven't slept well, or had enough sleep.*


yeah, same for me. the quality of my sleep effects my mood the subsequent day. especially if i haven't got REM sleep (which parnate impairs for at least 2-3 months beginning the medication) or have been just tossing and turning. when that happens, my baseline mood tends to me more introverted and lower generally, as opposed to when i've had a good sleep.

has anyone on parnate felt like their mind goes blank at some points? pdoc bumped me up to 30mgs, (previous dose at 20).. he was from the camp that generally thought that parnate wasn't necessarily more effective at much higher doses even though it is often prescribed at like 90+. i was kind of with him on that. he has me taking a thrid dose in the afternoon, which actually i don't even like doing because after that i feel like my mind has been emptied. i'm not thinking about anything, just staring at the wall or staring at some object. 
it's actually pretty annoying. and it exacerbates the bp problems, like i get really cold and dizzy w/ vision imparement when i stand or walk up stairs. 
would rather just stick to the 20mgs until my body adjusts. because some of the bp related side effects are unpleasant for me.

mixing this with caffiene causes my heart rate to go crazy. it slows down and beats really hard, palpitaties. some people say it doesn't bother them at all but it's not like it consistently bothers me. just have to time when i take my morning dose and when i have coffee.

i'll take a third dose if i'm planning to go out in the evening. kills any residual anxiety and i get the stimulating effects depending on what i'm doing.


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