# How common is clomipramine induced sexual dysfunction?



## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Basically wondering from anyone who has tried it.

Probably only going to be using the testimonials of people where it has worked slightly or caused remission for depression because of course depression alone can make a person feel sexually dysfunctional.

Post away!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

lol I just updated my thread to include this drug as one of the drugs i'm going to try. Clomipramine is one of the greatest meds out there for depression remission. It also doesn't have that big of a side effect profile. I would be interested to know other peoples experiences as well.

Ultimately I want to be taking Clomipramine and Mirapex. I will see how my doc feels about it.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

it has helped with depression and anxiety (more with depression) 
SEs i have had from it were:
dry mouth
horrible sweating!! even at 40*
Premature ejaculation
hands Thermos at 150mg at up.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> it has helped with depression and anxiety (more with depression)
> SEs i have had from it were:
> dry mouth
> horrible sweating!! even at 40*
> ...


Did the dry mouth go away? I hate dry mouth and usually everything I take gives me dry mouth but it stabilizes eventually.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

What is hand thermos?


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

gilmourr said:


> What is hand thermos?


I meant hands tremor


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Did the dry mouth go away? I hate dry mouth and usually everything I take gives me dry mouth but it stabilizes eventually.


The dry mouth side effect did not go away nor the others 
I had to always drink it was crazyyyyyy


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

Good luck all with your clomiprimine. I have a bottle from months ago that I never started because I was too afraid to.
I think I would try it now though.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> The dry mouth side effect did not go away nor the others
> I had to always drink it was crazyyyyyy


Dang, but then again you mentioned quite a high dose. There's no anticholinergic effects at lower doses. I imagine if I could get by with 10mg-40mg that would be perfect.

I already had hand tremors before even starting meds. Olanzapine did minimize that part.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

I feel like clomipramine might be a mirage. Looks good on paper, try it and then it's utter **** and I end up wasting 6 weeks when I could be on Zoloft and trying to augment away the anhedonia left by it after remitting all my depression.

I still would also need to figure out something to help anhedonia caused by it + also help with anxiety. Olanzapine would work if it helped you with anhedonia and helped with anxiety.

Or maybe neurontin with nortryptiline and zoloft. Stupid nardil, I wish 7-8 more days would go by so I could reach the end of MAO regeneration, see if it's defunct and leave it behind forever.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah even your guy Dr. Gillman is in favour of Clomipramine. It has the best results in terms of remission and such. I think if you can get results from a low dose, which is highly possible due to the < 0.5 affinity for SERT and < 1 affinity for NET, it would be a great drug with little side effects. It's anticholinergic properties which would give the side effects would require a pretty decent dose. The starting is 10mg and konami seems to have been taking 150mg.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah even your guy Dr. Gillman is in favour of Clomipramine. It has the best results in terms of remission and such. I think if you can get results from a low dose, which is highly possible due to the < 0.5 affinity for SERT and < 1 affinity for NET, it would be a great drug with little side effects. It's anticholinergic properties which would give the side effects would require a pretty decent dose. The starting is 10mg and konami seems to have been taking 150mg.


Yeah I actually read that.

Only reason I want to try it is because I've never used anything that was powerful on SERT and to a lesser extent NE. It's either been like SSRI's or MAOI's which are more powerful on NE than SERT.

This might work, but **** I want to do stuff in my summer still and I know I can on zoloft even if it's not that great. Clomipramine I have no idea what it'll do or what dose is useful.

Do you know what enzyme metabolizes clomipramine? Wiki says CYP1A2 but I haven't looked at literature. I think I'm a slow or slower metabolizer for CYP2D6 which is why higher doses for all meds I've tried with CYP2D6 suck with awful side effects & haven't worked.

I'm trying to avoid meds that mainly use CYP2D6 now, or limit the dose greatly. Zoloft uses CYP2B6, remeron uses a mixture and Nardil like metabolizes itself using MAO I think or something, so maybe that's why all of those drugs have worked while all others haven't.

Nardil @ 30 mg, 7 days in out of my total 14 seems to be getting worse by the day. I feel depressed to the point where I don't want to shower and feel like I'm a boulder that can't be moved. **** this. What's funny (in a way that is not funny) is that I know it can get so much worse. I still cannot even believe how low I was 2 years ago and that I was not on suicide watch or hospitalized


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm pretty sure Zoloft does use CYP2d6 more than CYP2B6.



> *The report of Greenblatt et al. (**1999**) also identified CYP2C9, 2C19, 3A4, and 2D6 each as being partially involved in sertraline N-demethylation, with a very minor role for CYP2B6.*
> 
> http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/33/2/262.full


Anyways, Clomipramine isn't a joke drug like SSRIs, if it works you will know within a week or two from the anecdotes I've read. Even stahl mentions immediate anxiety benefits but for depression 2 -4 weeks.

http://stahlonline.cambridge.org/pr...apeutics&name=Clomipramine&title=Therapeutics


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I'm pretty sure Zoloft does use CYP2d6 more than CYP2B6.
> 
> Anyways, Clomipramine isn't a joke drug like SSRIs, if it works you will know within a week or two from the anecdotes I've read. Even stahl mentions immediate anxiety benefits but for depression 2 -4 weeks.
> 
> http://stahlonline.cambridge.org/pr...apeutics&name=Clomipramine&title=Therapeutics


I trust wiki haha, http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/33/2/262

Hopefully that's the case because I really can't wait 8 weeks again... I know that zoloft takes 5-6 weeks to kick in which is balls. But it does work.

Then again, there is a deep brain stimulation trial in Toronto...I'm at the point where I just don't give a **** anymore and just want this **** to be solved


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Same study  The one I posted is the full one. Basically it's a mixed bag. Human liver microsomes show the cyp2b6 favoured but all the expressed p450 enzymes show it not being used. It doesn't really matter because there are multiple paths of demethylation. I even read a study where if 1 enzyme was inhibited the other one could take over for the workload of demethylation. So just saying Zoloft isn't really the drug to figure out your enzyme situation hehe.

Just try clomipramine if you're thinking about it and do it soon since you have to wait for your MAO to regenerate so that alone is going to tack on at least a week to your recovery. So if the Nardil is not doing anything then you are just wasting time anyways.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah even your guy Dr. Gillman is in favour of Clomipramine. It has the best results in terms of remission and such. I think if you can get results from a low dose, which is highly possible due to the < 0.5 affinity for SERT and < 1 affinity for NET, it would be a great drug with little side effects. It's anticholinergic properties which would give the side effects would require a pretty decent dose. The starting is 10mg and konami seems to have been taking 150mg.


Here they sell Anafranil at a minimum 75mg xr dose.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Common and the worst there is. I can't say it gentlier because I'd be lying.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Btw: 10 mg Clomipramine? This dosage doesn't even exist here.

We are talking about the same drug right? The one used mainly for OCD in doses of up to 250 mg?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Same study  The one I posted is the full one. Basically it's a mixed bag. Human liver microsomes show the cyp2b6 favoured but all the expressed p450 enzymes show it not being used. It doesn't really matter because there are multiple paths of demethylation. I even read a study where if 1 enzyme was inhibited the other one could take over for the workload of demethylation. So just saying Zoloft isn't really the drug to figure out your enzyme situation hehe.
> 
> Just try clomipramine if you're thinking about it and do it soon since you have to wait for your MAO to regenerate so that alone is going to tack on at least a week to your recovery. So if the Nardil is not doing anything then you are just wasting time anyways.


Yeah but it's been getting worse at the 45 mg because of mood swings, 30 mg might stop the mood swings and it's hardly any waiting since the drug is already in my system, I just need to wait for MAO to regenerate. I'd rather wait a week so I can permanently not talk about Nardil ever again, plus I've been on 30 for a week already, so I've put in 50% of the time to wait for MAO to regenerate.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

jameslp3230 said:


> gilmour I'm going on clomipramine too. It's a good choice as far as AD goes and much better than SSRIs. Nardil is making you more depressed so there is a good chance clomipramine could **** you up as well, it's very powerful. I would recommend starting on something very low like 5mg, then going up to 10mg. For doses a lot above that, the 5HTT occupancy increase starts to flatten out (obviously since 10mg can cause as high as 80%) and the NE increases, so lower doses favour more selectivity. Unlike MAOIs there is a lot more flexibility. Eg with Nardil it's like "take 45mg and wait for the explosion", there's kind of no in between on it as you need 85-95% MAO inhibition for some reason or it won't work. Something to do with metabolic processes Ken Gillman said. 10mg clomipramine alone can cause enough 5HTT occupancy to get a significant clinical response.
> 
> Depends on the quality of your anhedonia, it may be such that Zoloft is actually NOT treating your depression anywhere near fully, because anhedonia is a major symptom of melancholia. As I said depends on the quality of the anhedonia though.
> 
> Sexual dysfunction even on SSRIs has never been that bad. Once I lasted 4 hours with a girl it was exhausting and I thought I was going to explode but I got there in the end, apart from that a bit of numbing and that was it.


All I know is that I don't think depressing thoughts and I don't think about killing myself ever. It just doesn't make me motivated to work like Nardil does and I don't enjoy music or games or going out as much/socializing, etc, basically everything. It doesn't feel like melancholic depression at all

Zoloft as well like clomipramine inhibits a large portion of reuptake at low doses (like 50 mg for zoloft) so it might be comparable, though clomipramine is stronger. Unlike zoloft, it has NE action just to a lower extent which might help with the anhedonia though/lazy feeling.

I don't know I'm still thinking between clomipramine or Zoloft + abilify + neurontin or pregabalin (That way I get some action on dopamine and gaba)

Zoloft + nortryptiline I think would be too strong on NE, but it's possible..

Zoloft + stimulant, maybe?

Zoloft + Olanzapine since keh said that it helps with anhedonia


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Inshallah said:


> Btw: 10 mg Clomipramine? This dosage doesn't even exist here.
> 
> We are talking about the same drug right? The one used mainly for OCD in doses of up to 250 mg?


That dose is sometimes used for narcolepsy. But the small tablet strength often seen with tricyclics is more about making it harder for people to overdose by accidental double dosing.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

jim_morrison said:


> That dose is sometimes used for narcolepsy. But the small tablet strength often seen with tricyclics is more about making it harder for people to overdose by accidental double dosing.


You could have spared me that 4 month psych ward spell, if I knew back then it was really called accidental overdosing instead of a suicide attempt


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Wasn't able to read everything since it's late, I'll reply to the rest tomorrow, but on paper yeah olanzapine + zoloft seems weird especially if zoloft causes mild anhedonia/maybe moderate.

I was thinking about it just because not many people have anhedonia strictly as a disorder. I know Keh does, or I think he does and he said olanzapine worked really well in that regard. It's possible since antagonizing D2 receptors technically causes upregulation. Possibly initially it's not that great, but in the end upregulation causes an increase in the number of dopamine receptors.

Though just basic trial and error would suggest that olanzapine would be a **** show. I still am not sure how it helps keh. Maybe he can post some journals, I think he has a few.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

jameslp3230 said:


> So in other words decent but still partial response from Zoloft?
> 
> Lol, what, Zoloft + Olanzapine is crazy, if olanzapine does anything it makes you feel no pleasure in life even at doses like 5mg due to D antagonism. I stopped enjoying music which was scary as hell, I was already depressed but the world looked even more grey and miserable, and also when I ejaculated it literally did not feel good, I mean nothing, which was the most scary. It's due to effects on D and elevated prolactin. Olanzapine is a ****ing s**t drug with uses primarily in Schizo folks, to knock people out in severe insomnia cases and acute mania. It's very good for acute mania as it just takes all your energy (and life/soul) away.
> 
> ...


The thing about olanzapine is in lower doses it actually increases dopamine, particularily in the prefrontal cortex. It antagonizes the presynaptic autoreceptors. The problem is that eventually these desensitize for people and it starts at the post synaptic receptors where it lowers dopamine. It also has the 5-ht2c antagonism that helps it increase dopamine. I think the biggest problem with it is the antihistamine action, it is powerful, moreso than Remeron. This has the power to leave people very dazed and sedated. Luckily my histamine receptors are easily downregulated. I was taking it during the daytime and not feeling the least bit sedated. Also clozapine/olanzapine are known to upregulate dopamine receptors after extended use. Anyways, thus far its been the only thing that has helped my anhedonia. But alas I must go off it due to its effect on my blood sugar.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> The thing about olanzapine is in lower doses it actually increases dopamine, particularily in the prefrontal cortex. It antagonizes the presynaptic autoreceptors. The problem is that eventually these desensitize for people and it starts at the post synaptic receptors where it lowers dopamine. It also has the 5-ht2c antagonism that helps it increase dopamine. I think the biggest problem with it is the antihistamine action, it is powerful, moreso than Remeron. This has the power to leave people very dazed and sedated. Luckily my histamine receptors are easily downregulated. I was taking it during the daytime and not feeling the least bit sedated. Also clozapine/olanzapine are known to upregulate dopamine receptors after extended use. Anyways, thus far its been the only thing that has helped my anhedonia. But alas I must go off it due to its effect on my blood sugar.


Can you PM or post some of your olanzapine journals? If you have them on hand and can link them quickly that'd be awesome. I see my psych on Tuesday and I think I'm done with Nardil. I'm tired of losing weight and being super underweight unable to fit into pants because of it's appetite supressant, the constant 5 AM insomnia, it's subpar antidepressant response etc.

I'll just keep it in mind if I ever can't stop a severe chronic depressive episode. At least I know that if I want a 40 day break from depression that Nardil is there. Since it stops working after 40 days usually that is.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

BTW, paxil caused loss of libido, though I think it's stronger on inhibition of reuptake than clomipramine.

Can someone confirm this?

I'm a bit concerned about how potent clomipramine is on norepinephrine...

Cymbalta is about 1:1 I believe or the closest to 1:1 between serotonin and norepinephrine and that was the most suicidally inducing med I've ever been on. It seems fairly similar to clomipramine.

I'm not sure if a fair ratio of SERT:NE will be enough to not cause depressive issues. I think I need something strong on serotonin and weak/moderate on norepinephrine. 

Isn't clomipramine potent on both, just a weaker affinity with NET? Regardless it'll still be potent. Though the alpha 1 antagonism might help, and the 5HT2 and 5HT2C might cause vastly different results than cymbalta.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Can you PM or post some of your olanzapine journals? If you have them on hand and can link them quickly that'd be awesome. I see my psych on Tuesday and I think I'm done with Nardil. I'm tired of losing weight and being super underweight unable to fit into pants because of it's appetite supressant, the constant 5 AM insomnia, it's subpar antidepressant response etc.
> 
> I'll just keep it in mind if I ever can't stop a severe chronic depressive episode. At least I know that if I want a 40 day break from depression that Nardil is there. Since it stops working after 40 days usually that is.


I don't really have anything handy. There was a thread I did on anhedonia where I posted a few. Just go to scholar.google.com and search olanzapine dopamine.

Anyways, you should do clomipramine instead of olanzapine, it has all the good stuff about olanzapine minus the bad. And stop worrying about the NE and just try stuff. Clomipramine has low affinity for NET, it's the metabolite that has high, but serotonin still overpowers it.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I don't really have anything handy. There was a thread I did on anhedonia where I posted a few. Just go to scholar.google.com and search olanzapine dopamine.
> 
> Anyways, you should do clomipramine instead of olanzapine, it has all the good stuff about olanzapine minus the bad. And stop worrying about the NE and just try stuff. Clomipramine has low affinity for NET, it's the metabolite that has high, but serotonin still overpowers it.


The active metabolite is still powerful though or else norquetiapine wouldn't **** me up if it was unimportant or had negligible effects/side effects.

Olanzapine would also be an augmenter since I know that my base drug Zoloft gets rid of depression just doesn't help much with anxiety and causes anhedonia. I'd probably only be open to 4 weeks of trialing clomipramine so I'm not sure if it's worth it unless I'm going to give it a real fair chance/play with the dosage.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

jameslp3230 said:


> For instance it's ridiculous that a doctor doesn't know what Memantine is, they shouldn't have to look it up.


Yah but in all fairness it's a drug used for Alzheimers and what are the chances they ever had a patient with this problem. Minus the slight nausea i'm pretty happy with memantine so far. I listened to a bunch of music yesterday and I never listen to music. It was quite enjoyable.

Oh and regarding the dopamine downregulation, yes it does happen but what makes memantine unique is that it is an NMDA antagonist which prevents the downregulation from occurring. I'm not sure why that is, but NMDA antagonists are actually used quite often to prevent tolerance to stimulants. Look it up, it's been popular among the stim users. I'd like to know the science behind this myself. All I know is that it does work.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> BTW, paxil caused loss of libido, though I think it's stronger on inhibition of reuptake than clomipramine.
> 
> Can someone confirm this?
> 
> ...


i took cymbalta for a period of time and that drug felt like a slightly tweaked ssri to me; if i recall it had much greater serotonin reuptake inhibition properties compared to those it has on norepinephrine. so i looked the information up and the 5ht:ne ratio highly favours serotonin to norepinephrine at 9:1. i'm assuming the article below had taken into consideration duloxetine's active metabolites. 


> Duloxetine inhibited binding to the human NE and 5-HT transporters with Ki values of 7.5 and 0.8 nM, respectively, and with a Ki ratio of 9.


http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v25/n6/full/1395741a.html

clomipramine, like duloxetine, also isn't balanced in it's preference for the inhibition of reuptake of 5ht over ne with a Ki ratio of 14. below is a preskorn graph showing the ratios of a number of different ssris and tcas - clomipramine and its active metabolite, desmethylclomipramine included as one.









so you're right in that duloxetine and clomipramine are similar, although probably not in the way you had anticipated or originally thought. all interesting stuff, though.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

jameslp3230 said:


> I always wondered that stuff about Memantine for example. If its an agonist at D2 won't receptors eventually downregulate, thus erasing the benefit of D2 agonism and possibly leaving you with more anhedonia than you started.
> 
> ...go on Memantine/Pramipexole and feel pleasure in things for a month or two, until receptors downregulate and you're back where you started...


this exact concept - along with a fair share of individual anecdotes documenting it - are what are keeping me from using a dopamine agonist on a long-term daily basis.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Most people on this forum seem to be in love with pregabalin, i don't think I've read even one negative post about it. So here goes; i tried it for a short while, it did nothing for my SAD, it made me clumsy and woozy. No positive effects, no euphoria, no buzz, nothing! For me it was complete garbage.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

jim_morrison said:


> That dose is sometimes used for narcolepsy. But the small tablet strength often seen with tricyclics is more about making it harder for people to overdose by accidental double dosing.


Was just about to say they are shocking for that in Aus but then noticed you are here too  Can't remember which ones now but some tricyclics I remember my doc would have to write the script so that the chemist was giving me 5 boxes at a time and even then it didn't last too long. Think that one may have been nortriptyline.

As for clomipramine, only ever took 1/4 of a tablet and it was the worst sexual dysfunction of any antidepressant I've ever been on, by a country mile. I didn't stay on it for too long.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

basuraeuropea said:


> i took cymbalta for a period of time and that drug felt like a slightly tweaked ssri to me; if i recall it had much greater serotonin reuptake inhibition properties compared to those it has on norepinephrine. so i looked the information up and the 5ht:ne ratio highly favours serotonin to norepinephrine at 9:1. i'm assuming the article below had taken into consideration duloxetine's active metabolites.
> http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v25/n6/full/1395741a.html
> 
> clomipramine, like duloxetine, also isn't balanced in it's preference for the inhibition of reuptake of 5ht over ne with a Ki ratio of 14. below is a preskorn graph showing the ratios of a number of different ssris and tcas - clomipramine and its active metabolite, desmethylclomipramine included as one.
> ...


Saving that image, seems pretty handy. Desmethylclomipramine is favored more for NE than 5HT though, almost higher than desipramine. That seems pretty crazy... isn't it?

Amitryptiline actually looks like a good drug...one of my older psychs told me a long ago to try it. She was the one that prescribed zoloft that worked better than any drug on depression, so maybe I should trust and try amitryptiline  Well, I've got 2 days to decide...

It's either Zoloft + augment the anxiety/apathy issues or clomipramine or amitryptiline.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

basuraeuropea said:


> this exact concept - along with a fair share of individual anecdotes documenting it - are what are keeping me from using a dopamine agonist on a long-term daily basis.


Partial dopamine agonist  Abilify?


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

basuraeuropea said:


> this exact concept - along with a fair share of individual anecdotes documenting it - are what are keeping me from using a dopamine agonist on a long-term daily basis.


And it's exactly what happens in real life, as I can attest to with (high) doses of MPH and Dexamp.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Partial dopamine agonist  Abilify?


i spent a week on 1.25mg of abilify and it was the worst experience ever. akathisia like i've never experienced in my life and anxiety through the roof. my first and last experience with an ap/aap!


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Saving that image, seems pretty handy. Desmethylclomipramine is favored more for NE than 5HT though, almost higher than desipramine. That seems pretty crazy... isn't it?
> 
> Amitryptiline actually looks like a good drug...one of my older psychs told me a long ago to try it. She was the one that prescribed zoloft that worked better than any drug on depression, so maybe I should trust and try amitryptiline  Well, I've got 2 days to decide...
> 
> It's either Zoloft + augment the anxiety/apathy issues or clomipramine or amitryptiline.


active metabolites can totally throw a drug's main chemical's reaction off - case in point, bupropion and s,s-hydroxybupropion. i mean, that and many other examples. that was the first to pop into my head.

if you choose a different tca than your psychiatrist is recommending, then back it up with sound rationale and/or study to convince! best of luck and keep us updated!


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

basuraeuropea said:


> active metabolites can totally throw a drug's main chemical's reaction off - case in point, bupropion and s,s-hydroxybupropion. i mean, that and many other examples. that was the first to pop into my head.
> 
> if you choose a different tca than your psychiatrist is recommending, then back it up with sound rationale and/or study to convince! best of luck and keep us updated!


Definitely can since seroquel seemed good on paper, yet it's effect on NET inhibition with nardil exacerbated my side effects that seem to always appear with NET inhibition. Usually never good past a certain point of inhibition.

And yeah, I would, but this was a old psychiatrist I saw about a year ago, she recommended amitryptiline, at the time I wanted Nardil and it did go fairly well, it just poops out I guess with me. For 30-40 days though I go out like 3 times a week, can concentrate and feel pretty solid though.

My current psych would probably agree Zoloft makes more sense, but I'll ask her opinion. Of course I want to work towards remission and have no intent on just going through every drug, so if Zoloft takes away the depression and leaves moderate anxiety and apathy, I figure that's a decent place to start :S Just need some add ons...

Gabapentin may relieve the anxiety and cause enough of a mood lift to get me to remission.

One thing is for certain is that major depression makes me feel a lot older than I really am. When I sometimes talk to family and they tell me I have a whole life to live ahead of me, I can hardly fathom living another 3 years let alone 50+ with major depression...2.5 years of it so far has been unenjoyable to say the least


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Definitely can since seroquel seemed good on paper, yet it's effect on NET inhibition with nardil exacerbated my side effects that seem to always appear with NET inhibition. Usually never good past a certain point of inhibition.
> 
> And yeah, I would, but this was a old psychiatrist I saw about a year ago, she recommended amitryptiline, at the time I wanted Nardil and it did go fairly well, it just poops out I guess with me. For 30-40 days though I go out like 3 times a week, can concentrate and feel pretty solid though.
> 
> ...


i have a lot to say that would probably be best said via private message, but i will point out that both gabapentin and pregabalin can induce suicidal ideation and/or deep depressive states in both those who are and who are not predisposed. it's not typically used as a mood stabiliser the way some of the other aeds are, particularly not for those who suffer from major depressive disorder.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

jameslp3230 said:


> I hate Seroquel too, it's making me worse, so I cut it in half a few days ago, this morning I hadn't taken Seroquel for a day, and I felt like ****, almost like I felt when withdrawing from a drug e.g. venlafaxine, just a **** burning feeling in my chest... took Seroquel and it went away. Now not only has that POS made me worse (a lot of it due to NE and making me have a bad diet) but it also made me addicted. In short, glad I'm not the only one who had a bad experience on Seroquel, my doctor was singing its praises for bipolar people, I suspected it was **** and could actually make some people worse, here's just another reminder I may as well treat myself... For instance it's ridiculous that a doctor doesn't know what Memantine is, they shouldn't have to look it up.


I dislike the side effects of it too, I was put on it at a lowish dose for insomnia because apparently z-drugs are too 'addictive'. mostly it just makes me an incapacitated zombie. And there's definitely a withdrawal effect, for me it's rebound insomnia. Before that I was put on mirtazapine and it was the same issues for me. I don't want to speak for bipolar/schiz people who really need it but if they can tolerate the recommended 400-800mg dose range and still function then all I can say is that my hat goes off to them, they must have a much more robust physiology than I, such a dose would make me comatose. I think I'll go back to not sleeping much, I'm done with the seroquel fog.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

natural, that's why I take arsenic, lead and uranium


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

viper1431 said:


> natural, that's why I take arsenic, lead and uranium


So is snake venom 

But you have to admit, it's this brilliant marketing that created a billion dollar industry out of supplements.

@Gilmour, just my 2 cents. I didn't get as far as I did with my remission by going back to old drugs that partly worked for me. I kept trying new stuff till I got much better remission. And even now I'm completely changing my drugs around in order to get to closer remission rates rather than sticking with the oldies. In the end the more drugs I try the better cocktails I'll be able to create in the future.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Been reading reviews on clomipramine from this site.

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrati...NAFRANIL&PerPage=60&sort=satisfaction&order=0

I will probably be switching Effexor for this in 2 weeks.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> So is snake venom
> 
> But you have to admit, it's this brilliant marketing that created a billion dollar industry out of supplements.
> 
> @Gilmour, just my 2 cents. I didn't get as far as I did with my remission by going back to old drugs that partly worked for me. I kept trying new stuff till I got much better remission. And even now I'm completely changing my drugs around in order to get to closer remission rates rather than sticking with the oldies. In the end the more drugs I try the better cocktails I'll be able to create in the future.


That's what I was originally all about, I'm just getting burnt out of trying new medications, I'm not sure I have the patience to do another drug to just end up staying inside depressed 24/7 for 8 weeks.

I'll see what my psych says tomorrow. I think atm I'm more in favor if anything for amitriptyline than clomipramine. Though I think that Zoloft + nortryptiline (active metabolite of amitrip) might be a nice augment + gabapentin/pregabalin for the anxiety


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