# Agnosticism/Atheism correlation with depression??



## xemptyxsoulx

In my opinion, several people who have no belief in god are more inclined to suffer from depression. Not being comforted with the promises of an eternal afterlife can lead to nihilistic feelings about the world. In those peoples' eyes, nothing has any intrinsic value, and therefore, life is meaningless. Thoughts like this can contribute greatly to depression and negative thinking about life. What are your thoughts of comments?



Additionally, what are your thoughts on the correlation between increased IQ and agnosticism/atheism?


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## albrecht

xemptyxsoulx said:


> In my opinion, several people who have no belief in god are more inclined to suffer from depression. Not being comforted with the promises of an eternal afterlife can lead to nihilistic feelings about the world. In those peoples' eyes, nothing has any intrinsic value, and therefore, life is meaningless. Thoughts like this can contribute greatly to depression and negative thinking about life. What are your thoughts of comments?


I think it's far more psychologically healthy than being "happy" while believing that the majority of the world's population will be suffering for eternity because they don't believe the same things you do, or believing in a God that _could_ have prevented the Holocaust but was too busy listening to people's morning prayers and helping little Timmy get straight A's.


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## squidd

so....why is there a large contingent of members with a faith on this board?

also I consider myself a "positive nihilist" (though my views are informed by many different sources) and I actually find quite abit of happiness and solace within the framework of my belief system.
People have negative thoughts/depression because they are alive.


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## Frunktubulus

I read a study on a similar idea a while ago that suggests those who identify as religious experience less anxiety when faced with anxiety provoking situations.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090304160400.htm


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## Jnmcda0

SJack said:


> I read a study on a similar idea a while ago that suggests those who identify as religious experience less anxiety when faced with anxiety provoking situations.
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090304160400.htm


I'd be interested to know what aspects of religion correlated with decreased anxiety. Is there a difference between those who attend church and those who don't? I could see where being in a supportive social setting (like church) on a regular basis could help one learn to cope with anxiety. Would the same correlation occur among those who belonged to an atheist or secular group?

What about differences between those who pray regularly and those who don't pray or do so infrequently? Praying may have a similar function to mediation in reducing stress. One of the books I have on depression and anxiety suggests praying, even if it is to another person, your cat, a tree, whatever. It may be wishful thinking, but it is also cognitive thinking, which gets your mind off of your anxiety.


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## xemptyxsoulx

SJack said:


> I read a study on a similar idea a while ago that suggests those who identify as religious experience less anxiety when faced with anxiety provoking situations.
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090304160400.htm


Nice article:thanks. Although somewhat obvious, 'faith' can be a huge distraction from focusing on real life problems.


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## Propaganda

You presented the notion of depression is caused because of lack of belief. There is also a notice of atheists tend to have higher IQs. (actually, people with higher IQs tend to be atheists.)

So, your connection so far is lack of belief = depression.

However, contemplate that depression and lack of belief our co-effects of high IQ in some cases.

There will not be a one two three approach more like a one three two, three two one, and two one three... there are different results indicative of the initial piece. Some are depressed because they have no beliefs. Some have depression because they have high IQs. And so on....


*edit*

2am does not make for well thought out posts. =/


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## Frunktubulus

xemptyxsoulx said:


> Nice article:thanks. Although somewhat obvious, 'faith' can be a huge distraction from focusing on real life problems.


For sure, and the researchers also touched on the point that anxiety isn't a bad thing in and of itself. 'Course when it's misplaced and extreme as with anxiety disorder, that doesn't help anyone. And like Jnmcda0 said, being agnostic/atheistic doesn't necessarily mean one lacks a belief system, and there're techniques like CBT and meditation that reduce anxiety too.


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## jonny neurotic

Existential nihilism is the belief that life is pointless. I laugh at the pointlessness of life. Really. It makes me hysterical. What makes me sad, however, is other peoples fervent attempts to find the "truth", whether it be from some antiquated text or from some new aged mumbo-jumbo. I was walking down the street the other day and this old guy with crutches was stopping people to ask them if they had prayed that morning. When I replied in the negative he asked me why? The look of concern on his face will stay with me for the rest of my life. He was truly concerned about the immortal souls of his fellow human beings such that it was breaking his heart to "know" that so many of them are doomed. I felt bad all day thinking about this old guy...


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## xemptyxsoulx

Life does feel pointless mostly. It feels as if the only reason to continue living is the motivation to feel 'positive' umm feelings. I just wonder what one is supposed to do when the negative feelings in their life are far more prevalent than positive ones. With no faith in a higher power, where is one supposed to find solace in their life when they are constantly exposed to feelings of despair, angst, and loneliness? What is the atheist/agnostic method of dealing with a poor quality of life?


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## The Sleeping Dragon

Why does life itself have a point? Why does life have to have a reward after? These concepts don't make sense and don't preoccupy my life anymore.

Of course people want to link agnosticism/atheism to having depressions. Because in a way it 'proves' to others that there might be a god. While I sencirely believe that believers do have depressions just as bad as atheist. The problem is that believers _hide_ it better so in inquires it doesn't come up as much. Think on it. Having a depressing while having faith in god sounds like you don't have faith in god. So I think those people might _cover it up more_ than non-believers.



> In public, the image of an unhappy and dismal atheist who is haunted by inner doubts and fears and is already paying dearly for his opposition to religion in this life is often conveyed. This image is not necessarily-and not always-wrong, but it is certainly wrong when, as we were able to prove in our study, atheists who have gone through a religious upbringing later on succeed in reconquering all spheres of life we described above, which had previously been occupied by the church.
> 
> In order to conclude this short summary of the evaluation of the questionnaires (the original study comprises more than 500 pages-further details can be furnished on request) we should like, once again, to point out the most important results: contrary to the tendentious assertions put up by numerous studies on the psychology of religion, simply taking advantage of the statistically small number of atheists compared to the relatively great number of strictly religious persons, atheists are less prone to depression than religious persons. Their psychic condition differs most impressively from those who, though quite obviously with a guilty conscience, do not keep the church's rules, but never seriously analyzed their own religious education and their obviously persistent secret, religion-based convictions. There is a less distinct difference between atheists and strictly religious persons who unbrokenly stick to religious prescriptions and therefore are less depressed by feelings of guilt than "lukewarm" Christians. But atheists also have an advantage over the hard core of believers with respect to their depression values-although the difference is not so great.
> 
> The study we have presented here in short summary is, to our knowledge, the only one worldwide to examine, with due scientific scrutiny, a population of resolute atheists, allowing a comparison of this group with believers by means of a standardized measure. Doubtlessly there is considerable need for further investigation in this field, especially regarding the process of detachment from religion, but such a project-at least in Germany-will not meet with much support from public institutions, quite contrary to inquiries conducted among believers. Further in-depth analysis and verification of our results in international and transcultural comparisons would also be very desirable. We do hope to have given an impulse in this direction with our study.


http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/buggle_20_4.html

A little bit of searching and my feelings proved me I was not far off the truth. I've quoted the last bit feel free to read more.

Author: Dr. Franz Buggle - a professor emeritus of the Department of Clinical Psychology of Albert-Ludwigs-University at Freiberg/Breisgau, Germany.


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## albrecht

Coincidence said:


> Depends on the person , the family he was raised in , how religion negatively/positively has affected his life , how spiritual he is , etc


Exactly. If there is a correlation, it is not necessarily between atheism and depression, but between losing faith and a feeling of belonging and depression, or feeling that you've disappointed your family and friends and depression. Also, even after losing faith, there is still a significant feeling of guilt (for me, anyway) - a feeling of wondering what it is that I lack that others have that enables them to have faith.


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## 0589471

I don't think so much that it's determined by whether or not the person believes in God. You can be depressed and wish to die if you believe or not. I think it's more common if you believe that your life is just there, and someday you're going to die, and that's all there is to life. That's depressing, but some people are ok with that too, so it really depends on the person and how they take to certain situations and what they believe in. Depression can come from anywhere, happen to anyone, it's hard to really put it into one category of people.


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## borsello0216

*We all worship something*

After my so-called "religous experience" I learned I worshipped something. In my case, at the time, It Mary Jane I bowed down to. For some it is money, sex, drugs, alcohol. The devil takes many forms in my opinion. I have the opinion that it is better to do good and follow that precept than to have done nothing but complain. The most rediculous thought I have ever heard is we are here for no reason and nothing happens after this. Why bother. I would think about that thought till day I day, en-raged, weary, scared and alone. Fact is no one knows me like the one who made me. And, you people act like millions are crazy and have the same delusional experiences as a million other people and we haven't seen many signs and wonders.:no


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## albrecht

borsello0216, since you're in _this_ forum, I'll bite.



borsello0216 said:


> After my so-called "religous experience" I learned I worshipped something. In my case, at the time, It Mary Jane I bowed down to. For some it is money, sex, drugs, alcohol.


The fact is that most people are trying to balance coping with reality and being happy in reality. Alcoholism and drug-addiction arises from the same despair that feeds religious frenzy, and theism, alcoholism, and drug-addiction are all forms of sublimated _absolute despair_. The desire to die is euphemized into a desire to be "redeemed."



> The devil takes many forms in my opinion.


So does goodness and beauty.



> I have the opinion that it is better to do good and follow that precept than to have done nothing but complain.


I agree.



> The most rediculous thought I have ever heard is we are here for no reason and nothing happens after this.


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. No one says we're here for _no_ reason, though it makes sense to say we're here for reasons that do not belong to an _agency_, to a will or wills. I don't know if there is an afterlife. But how is that more important than what is happening right now? Even if I feel or help another person feel a second of happiness, why does it not count if "nothing happens" afterward? It's not even the memory that counts, it's the moment itself. It existed. It was real. It was meaningful. And disparaging it on account of "nothing happened afterward" is purely manufactured discontent.



> Why bother.


You can ask that question of anything. The only way religion or theism gets around it is because "why bother" is met with "because I will hurt you if you don't."



> I would think about that thought till day I day, en-raged, weary, scared and alone. Fact is no one knows me like the one who made me.


Quarks, Leptons, and Bosons?



> And, you people act like millions are crazy and have the same delusional experiences as a million other people and we haven't seen many signs and wonders.:no


I don't see delusion or insanity. I see despair.


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## borsello0216

Quarks, Leptons, and Bosons?

What?
And, you people act like millions are crazy and have the same delusional experiences as a million other people and we haven't seen many signs and wonders.








I don't see delusion or insanity. I see despair.

How could signs and wonders, miracles and visions, seeing his hand work, protect you, bring from the brink of death, let be scared to death and come back the Almighty God, and thank him for dying for my sin and thank you for providing my NEEDS always no matter what I have done, but to allow me to Reap what I sew as some would call karma "small k" where God is a "big G". Even as a Christian we would know we sin, but look and say if we continue in our sin do we really fully believe. If believed fully we would follow fully for the alternative being Hell. So when we sin quickly stop and repent not continue. God created us, he decided what sin is and is not. You can change the rules if you like, BUT God wrote the very first Book ever written and it would be your own fault for reading every book ever made for knowledge rather than the book that tell of our beginnings. Why atumatically assume it is a lie? Because the truth is we believe what is says that we are sinners and we should No man as the bible says.


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## albrecht

borsello0216 said:


> Quarks, Leptons, and Bosons?
> 
> What?


The "building blocks" of matter.



> How could signs and wonders, miracles and visions, seeing his hand work, protect you, bring from the brink of death, let be scared to death and come back the Almighty God, and thank him for dying for my sin and thank you for providing my NEEDS always no matter what I have done, but to allow me to Reap what I sew as some would call karma "small k" where God is a "big G". [/quote
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude, but that made no sense.
> 
> [quote[
> Even as a Christian we would know we sin, but look and say if we continue in our sin do we really fully believe. If believed fully we would follow fully for the alternative being Hell. So when we sin quickly stop and repent not continue.


We know morality. "Sin" is a Christian concept which has nothing to do with morality, but only to do with not doing what Christians think is God's will. In practice, sin means not doing what Christians want.



> God created us, he decided what sin is and is not.


Prove it.



> You can change the rules if you like, BUT God wrote the very first Book ever written and it would be your own fault for reading every book ever made for knowledge rather than the book that tell of our beginnings.


If you're referring to the Bible, it was not at all the first book ever written. Books were being written long before anyone ever bothered to put pen to paper to write down their bullsh*t about Yahweh.



> Why atumatically assume it is a lie?


I don't automatically assume it is a lie. I have good reason to believe it is a lie because the evidence indicates that it is.



> Because the truth is we believe what is says that we are sinners and we should No man as the bible says.


I don't understand what you mean here.


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## Ashley1990

I am religious n i feel more depressed..thats nothing to do with God..its him more responsible for my depression..


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## borsello0216

Because the truth is we believe what is says that we are sinners and we should No man as the bible says. 

I am sorry it should say The bible says trust no man but what I am saying we agree here with the bible and claim it as our thought. As far as saying the first book written, you know what I mean. There is no other book ever written like it and trust me I understand you point of view because I know what it takes to be able to "see" as the bible refers to "I once was blind but know I see", a metaphor inside of a parable in which Jesus's teaching and words are the ONLY parables of the bible, (refering to another discussion I have had on other threads).


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## CourtneyB

borsello0216 said:


> Because the truth is we believe what is says that we are sinners and we should No man as the bible says.
> 
> I am sorry it should say The bible says trust no man but what I am saying we agree here with the bible and claim it as our thought. As far as saying the first book written, you know what I mean. There is no other book ever written like it and trust me I understand you point of view because I know what it takes to be able to "see" as the bible refers to "I once was blind but know I see", a metaphor inside of a parable in which Jesus's teaching and words are the ONLY parables of the bible, (refering to another discussion I have had on other threads).


I believe you're in the wrong forum, love.


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## albrecht

> I am sorry it should say The bible says trust no man but what I am saying we agree here with the bible and claim it as our thought.


Funny that you should say that, as your whole belief system depends on trusting one man's word on the notion that he was God. You trust him enough despite knowing that he could have been a con-artist, insane, or genuinely mistaken, all of which, according both to historical experience and Abrahamic theology that says God is transcendent, are more likely than the actual divinity of Jesus.


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## borsello0216

albrecht said:


> Funny that you should say that, as your whole belief system depends on trusting one man's word on the notion that he was God. You trust him enough despite knowing that he could have been a con-artist, insane, or genuinely mistaken, all of which, according both to historical experience and Abrahamic theology that says God is transcendent, are more likely than the actual divinity of Jesus.


For an insane "man" he sure knew a lot of things he should not have know, such as the first 5 books of the bible by heart be the time he was a teenager. He was willing to die, knowing he was God in the flesh, and I am sorry, for someone that reflects a lot of knowledge you sure are not studied on the bible or you would know that many of the people that yelled crucify him asked for salvation after seeing the events that took place with the crucifixation, such as the ripping of the veil from top to bottom. If you have any knowledge of the temple veil you know this is impossible. Another question, the temple once held the Spirit of God on the Ark of the Covenat in the Temple. Where did the Spirit go if not into the heart of his people? God allowed us to be able to speak to him directly rather than through a priest and he made the way to heaven so simple that it is just unbelievable at those that don't believe for the simplicity of it all.


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## borsello0216

CourtneyB said:


> I believe you're in the wrong forum, love.


What forum is that? The forum in which Christ is my healer and I have the same issue and would like to give others some of the insight I have found in order to help them or at the very least make them think.


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## albrecht

borsello0216 said:


> For an insane "man" he sure knew a lot of things he should not have know, such as the first 5 books of the bible by heart be the time he was a teenager.


You're assuming that (a) the New Testament accounts are true, and (b) that knowing the Bible well is somehow a mark of sanity.



> He was willing to die, knowing he was God in the flesh,


If you look into the history of cults, you'll find that plenty of religious desperadoes are willing to die for far less.



> and I am sorry, for someone that reflects a lot of knowledge you sure are not studied on the bible or you would know that many of the people that yelled crucify him asked for salvation after seeing the events that took place with the crucifixation, such as the ripping of the veil from top to bottom.


But those events are only mentioned in _some_ of the Gospels. You would think an event like tombs breaking open, the dead holy people being raised to life, an earthquake and a torn temple veil would have been worth mentioning in the other books. Strangely, they aren't. They're only mentioned in Matthew. So we can suppose one of several things. We can suppose that the other authors didn't know about it, which would suggest that they are not first-hand witnesses. We can suppose that they knew about it, but didn't think it was important enough to mention, which seems improbable. Or we can suppose that Matthew made it up because it sounded good to tag on there.



> Another question, the temple once held the Spirit of God on the Ark of the Covenat in the Temple.


Supposedly. How would that be verified?



> Where did the Spirit go if not into the heart of his people?


Probably back into their imaginations where it originated in the first place.



> God allowed us to be able to speak to him directly rather than through a priest and he made the way to heaven so simple that it is just unbelievable at those that don't believe for the simplicity of it all.


It isn't unbelievable because is it simple. It is unbelievable because it is stupid.


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## CourtneyB

borsello0216 said:


> What forum is that? The forum in which Christ is my healer and I have the same issue and would like to give others some of the insight I have found in order to help them or at the very least make them think.


No, the *Atheist and Agnostic Support Forum*, where Atheists and Agnostics get support from fellow members of the same views or beliefs.

If they wanted to be "enlightened" or wanted spiritual support they would go into the *Spiritual Support Forum* - where your posts are more appropriately made and suited for. That's why there are two separate sub-forums (or sections).


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## borsello0216

CourtneyB said:


> No, the *Atheist and Agnostic Support Forum*, where Atheists and Agnostics get support from fellow members of the same views or beliefs.
> 
> If they wanted to be "enlightened" or wanted spiritual support they would go into the *Spiritual Support Forum* - where your posts are more appropriately made and suited for. That's why there are two separate sub-forums (or sections).


And, they do plenty so do not go there and furthermore before you approached me I did not comment or reply to anything you have written. Anti-Socialism turns into bully-ism


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## borsello0216

albrecht said:


> You're assuming that (a) the New Testament accounts are true, and (b) that knowing the Bible well is somehow a mark of sanity.
> 
> If you look into the history of cults, you'll find that plenty of religious desperadoes are willing to die for far less.
> 
> But those events are only mentioned in _some_ of the Gospels. You would think an event like tombs breaking open, the dead holy people being raised to life, an earthquake and a torn temple veil would have been worth mentioning in the other books. Strangely, they aren't. They're only mentioned in Matthew. So we can suppose one of several things. We can suppose that the other authors didn't know about it, which would suggest that they are not first-hand witnesses. We can suppose that they knew about it, but didn't think it was important enough to mention, which seems improbable. Or we can suppose that Matthew made it up because it sounded good to tag on there.
> 
> Supposedly. How would that be verified?
> 
> Probably back into their imaginations where it originated in the first place.
> 
> It isn't unbelievable because is it simple. It is unbelievable because it is stupid.


If it had been written by your exact specification you would still find fault in it. You would then say you were the author and the finisher of The Book, sounds a lot like why the devil got the boot.


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## CourtneyB

borsello0216 said:


> And, they do plenty so do not go there and furthermore before you approached me I did not comment or reply to anything you have written. Anti-Socialism turns into bully-ism


Why does that matter? You made quite a few posts in a thread that wasn't asking for a Bible lesson and I replied saying this isn't the right subforum. How in the world does that equate to "bully-ism", and even furthermore, to anti-socialism? :con Obviously you are starting Biblical/religious debate in a thread and subforum where there needn't be one.


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## albrecht

borsello0216 said:


> If it had been written by your exact specification you would still find fault in it.


I don't find fault in the fact that it was written. I simply believe it is important to point out that parts of it are true and parts of it are false. I wouldn't rewrite anything in it. What I am criticizing is the idea that the Bible is to be believed no matter what.



> You would then say you were the author and the finisher of The Book, sounds a lot like why the devil got the boot.


That, actually, is nonsense. As I said, I wouldn't change it, and I wouldn't want to replace it. I just think it's ridiculous to believe that it was divinely inspired.


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## borsello0216

albrecht said:


> I don't find fault in the fact that it was written. I simply believe it is important to point out that parts of it are true and parts of it are false. I wouldn't rewrite anything in it. What I am criticizing is the idea that the Bible is to be believed no matter what.
> 
> That, actually, is nonsense. As I said, I wouldn't change it, and I wouldn't want to replace it. I just think it's ridiculous to believe that it was divinely inspired.


First and foremost I appreciate exchanging words with me and not bashing me for being in the wrong forum, though I have seen quite a few here making posts in the spiritual forum, neither here nor there. I respect you and enjoy reading many of your posts though I admit some I do not understand sometimes. As far as my response to your quote, Who decides what is true or false. When the whole premise of the book is walk by faith, do by faith, believe by faith, you are trying to put reasoning to it or in other words sight. Seeing is believing for sure, but when the whole premise of The Book is based on trusting the things you can not see so that he can show you in a different way, wether be by sight then or spirtiual or any other means he may choose.


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## Joe

I guess religion can give someone hope even in bad times instead of just giving up, but I think it only applies to people who have depression and other issues.


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## borsello0216

It applies to all of us. We all have problems of some kind. I can't imagine what some must face, jobless, homeless, hungry, addicted to drugs or alcohol. I feel for them. God wants to help wether we a discouraged over our parents, job, finances, school, he wants all of those burdens to be his and you carry his burdens, he has none.


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## geon106

xemptyxsoulx said:


> In my opinion, several people who have no belief in god are more inclined to suffer from depression. Not being comforted with the promises of an eternal afterlife can lead to nihilistic feelings about the world. In those peoples' eyes, nothing has any intrinsic value, and therefore, life is meaningless. Thoughts like this can contribute greatly to depression and negative thinking about life. What are your thoughts of comments?
> 
> Additionally, what are your thoughts on the correlation between increased IQ and agnosticism/atheism?


I completely agree.

One night i awake incredibly scared, more than ive ever been scared as i had realised my own mortality(not sure if thats the word im looking for?)

And realised that if i die, i may not even realise ive died. If there is nothing after life there is not even blackness or nothingness as you would need to acknowledge said blackness/nothingness.

People i speak to seem quite content with this, the whole "well then what does it matter as you wont be there to experience it?" well thats what scares me the most.

I'd be quite happy in darkness with my thoughts, at least i continue to exist.

However this concept in my opinion disproves the concept of a hell. If i die and emerge in hell i'd be in heaven knowing there is something after life but then therefore there'd be no hell for me?

In non-catholic teachings, i.e hell to one side for a moment. I am someone who follows logical thinking and science. although science doesn't strictly disprove god, there isn't much evidence.

I am not even looking for a god or heaven. Just something after we die, regardless or whether its a metaphysical answer or a scientific one. By scientific, maybe our energy re-materialises in a parallel universe?

Some people say to me, nothing lasts forever and therefore we must die. Well then sure neither does death last forever? Surely death itself must have an end? But then this cycle of life and death must have an end? But that end would need an end? And there you get a paradox.

Another thing that worrys me is of course we cannot remember anything before we was born. There was nothing. The older we get the harder it becomes to remember that far back true, but we can never at any age remember before we are born. Maybe theres a reason for this? Or maybe there just wasn't anything before and nothing after?

Maybe religion is a safety blanket because we can't accept that life is just life and it ends and there is nothing for us. Not even death because we wont be able to acknowledge we've died.

I do hope there is something and i continue to search for an answer but sadly it is an answer religion nor science can answer with rational evidence

Sorry for this long essay on my opinions


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## borsello0216

geon106 said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> One night i awake incredibly scared, more than ive ever been scared as i had realised my own mortality(not sure if thats the word im looking for?)
> 
> And realised that if i die, i may not even realise ive died. If there is nothing after life there is not even blackness or nothingness as you would need to acknowledge said blackness/nothingness.
> 
> People i speak to seem quite content with this, the whole "well then what does it matter as you wont be there to experience it?" well thats what scares me the most.
> 
> I'd be quite happy in darkness with my thoughts, at least i continue to exist.
> 
> However this concept in my opinion disproves the concept of a hell. If i die and emerge in hell i'd be in heaven knowing there is something after life but then therefore there'd be no hell for me?
> 
> In non-catholic teachings, i.e hell to one side for a moment. I am someone who follows logical thinking and science. although science doesn't strictly disprove god, there isn't much evidence.
> 
> I am not even looking for a god or heaven. Just something after we die, regardless or whether its a metaphysical answer or a scientific one. By scientific, maybe our energy re-materialises in a parallel universe?
> 
> Some people say to me, nothing lasts forever and therefore we must die. Well then sure neither does death last forever? Surely death itself must have an end? But then this cycle of life and death must have an end? But that end would need an end? And there you get a paradox.
> 
> Another thing that worrys me is of course we cannot remember anything before we was born. There was nothing. The older we get the harder it becomes to remember that far back true, but we can never at any age remember before we are born. Maybe theres a reason for this? Or maybe there just wasn't anything before and nothing after?
> 
> Maybe religion is a safety blanket because we can't accept that life is just life and it ends and there is nothing for us. Not even death because we wont be able to acknowledge we've died.
> 
> I do hope there is something and i continue to search for an answer but sadly it is an answer religion nor science can answer with rational evidence
> 
> Sorry for this long essay on my opinions


You are saying If there is a God these are the rules, hence Hell would be Heaven for you, but If God exists then he told you the rules. Your hell will be hell. Your hell may be not to exist or maybe you will burn forever. God tells you in his rules, he is the judge, Jesus is your lawyer and witness, and you are the defendant. The one that created me knows what Hell would be for me, if that is the way he decided to do it.


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## geon106

borsello0216:1059886171 said:


> geon106 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I completely agree.
> 
> One night i awake incredibly scared, more than ive ever been scared as i had realised my own mortality(not sure if thats the word im looking for?)
> 
> And realised that if i die, i may not even realise ive died. If there is nothing after life there is not even blackness or nothingness as you would need to acknowledge said blackness/nothingness.
> 
> People i speak to seem quite content with this, the whole "well then what does it matter as you wont be there to experience it?" well thats what scares me the most.
> 
> I'd be quite happy in darkness with my thoughts, at least i continue to exist.
> 
> However this concept in my opinion disproves the concept of a hell. If i die and emerge in hell i'd be in heaven knowing there is something after life but then therefore there'd be no hell for me?
> 
> In non-catholic teachings, i.e hell to one side for a moment. I am someone who follows logical thinking and science. although science doesn't strictly disprove god, there isn't much evidence.
> 
> I am not even looking for a god or heaven. Just something after we die, regardless or whether its a metaphysical answer or a scientific one. By scientific, maybe our energy re-materialises in a parallel universe?
> 
> Some people say to me, nothing lasts forever and therefore we must die. Well then sure neither does death last forever? Surely death itself must have an end? But then this cycle of life and death must have an end? But that end would need an end? And there you get a paradox.
> 
> Another thing that worrys me is of course we cannot remember anything before we was born. There was nothing. The older we get the harder it becomes to remember that far back true, but we can never at any age remember before we are born. Maybe theres a reason for this? Or maybe there just wasn't anything before and nothing after?
> 
> Maybe religion is a safety blanket because we can't accept that life is just life and it ends and there is nothing for us. Not even death because we wont be able to acknowledge we've died.
> 
> I do hope there is something and i continue to search for an answer but sadly it is an answer religion nor science can answer with rational evidence
> 
> Sorry for this long essay on my opinions
> 
> 
> 
> You are saying If there is a God these are the rules, hence Hell would be Heaven for you, but If God exists then he told you the rules. Your hell will be hell. Your hell may be not to exist or maybe you will burn forever. God tells you in his rules, he is the judge, Jesus is your lawyer and witness, and you are the defendant. The one that created me knows what Hell would be for me, if that is the way he decided to do it.
Click to expand...

If my hell is to not exist then i wont be able to acknowledge my punishment?


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## JamesTheLoner

You mentioned nihilism in relation to atheism, and that perhaps the belief in a metaphysical "beyond" offers some comfort to people. This made me think of a great section in Friedrich Nietzsche's "Will to Power". If you want your world rocked I suggest you read as much of him as possible. Anyways, here it is. Hope its relevant for you.

*Nihilism as a psychological state will have to be reached, first, when we have sought a "meaning" in all events that is not there: so the seeker eventually becomes discouraged. Nihilism, then, is the recognition of the long waste of strength, the agony of the "in vain," insecurity, the lack of any opportunity to recover and to regain composure--being ashamed in front of oneself, as if one had deceived oneself all too long.--This meaning could have been: the "fulfillment" of some highest ethical canon in all events, the moral world order; or the growth of love and harmony in the intercourse of beings; or the gradual approximation of a state of universal happiness; or even the development toward a state of universal annihilation--any goal at least constitutes some meaning. What all these notions have in common is that something is to be achieved through the process--and now one realizes that becoming aims at nothing and achieves nothing.-- Thus, disappointment regarding an alleged aim of becoming as a cause of nihilism: whether regarding a specific aim or, universalized, the realization that all previous hypotheses about aims that concern the whole "evolution" are inadequate (man no longer the collaborator, let alone the center, of becoming).

**Nihilism as a psychological state is reached, secondly, when one has posited a totality, a systematization, indeed any organization in all events, and underneath all events, and a soul that longs to admire and revere has wallowed in the idea of some supreme form of domination and administration (--if the soul be that of a logician, complete consistency and real dialectic are quite sufficient to reconcile it to everything). Some sort of unity, some form of "monism": this faith suffices to give man a deep feeling of standing in the context of, and being dependent on, some whole that is infinitely superior to him, and he sees himself as a mode of the deity.--"The well-being of the universal demands the devotion of the individual"--but behold, there is no such universal! At bottom, man has lost the faith in his own value when no infinitely valuable whole works through him; i. e., he conceived such a whole in order to be able to believe in his own value.

**Nihilism as psychological state has yet a third and last form.

Given these two insights, that becoming has no goal and that underneath all becoming there is no grand unity in which the individual could immerse himself completely as in an element of supreme value, an escape remains: to pass sentence on this whole world of becoming as a deception and to invent a world beyond it, a true world. But as soon as man finds out how that world is fabricated solely from psychological needs, and how he has absolutely no right to it, the last form of nihilism comes into being: it includes disbelief in any metaphysical world and forbids itself any belief in a true world. Having reached this standpoint, one grants the reality of becoming as the only reality, forbids oneself every kind of clandestine access to afterworlds and false divinities--but cannot endure this world though one does not want to deny it.

**What has happened, at bottom? The feeling of valuelessness was reached with the realization that the overall character of existence may not be interpreted by means of the concept of "aim," the concept of "unity," or the concept of "truth." Existence has no goal or end; any comprehensive unity in the plurality of events is lacking: the character of existence is not "true," is false. One simply lacks any reason for convincing oneself that there is a true world. Briefly: the categories "aim," "unity," "being" which we used to project some value into the world--we pull out again; so the world looks valueless.
*


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## mountain5

I think it's the other way around, it's more a matter of people with depressive tendencies realizing that religion isn't for them. It's a trend, not describing everyone of course. Religious behavior is an extremely complex subject.


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## jonny neurotic

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. _
 
Carl Marx..._


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## anthrotex

It's easy to feel less depressed when you don't have to take responsibility for all the bad things in your life and you can say "it's just a part of god's will." It's a distraction. Not to mention, people of religious faith are less likely to claim to be depressed (whether they are or are not) because they're less likely than people with no faith to believe in depression. Generally speaking.


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## Porterdog

My view is that High IQ Causes depression, which causes Atheism.


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## Unkn0wn Pleasures

We got no opium


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## DrakeN

I prefer to see it the other way round, I'm not living a lie, waiting and pretending that I'm going to some endless life after I die. It's quite nice actually.


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## wordscancutyoulikeglass

Truly, since I have become agnostic, I have been more depressed, like I'm fighting with myself. I would think about the world and people and the universe and myself, but then I would just say, 'oh god made the whole thing' and then stop thinking. But now, as an agnostic, I feel this weight of knowledge and reality and misery. It makes me stronger. I can rise above this sort of depression without convincing myself that a god did it for me. Because I did it myself. Christians always say that they were one blind but now they see, but i feel like that should be a saying for agnostics or atheists. 

However, in many ways, I feel better as an agnostic. What I believe in now is completely logical. I can relate myself to people with many other religions instead of judging them for not coming to christ. I feel like now I know the truth about the world, like someone whispered a super big secret in my ear. And when I heard the truth, the truth set me free from the bonds of religion and into the freedom of agnostic atheism


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## ugh1979

xemptyxsoulx said:


> In my opinion, several people who have no belief in god are more inclined to suffer from depression. Not being comforted with the promises of an eternal afterlife can lead to nihilistic feelings about the world. In those peoples' eyes, nothing has any intrinsic value, and therefore, life is meaningless. Thoughts like this can contribute greatly to depression and negative thinking about life. What are your thoughts of comments?


I hate it when theists try to say athiests think life is meaningless because it doesn't have their idea of a creator and an afterlife. Atheists see great meaning in life, and celebrate our short time of being individuals.



> Additionally, what are your thoughts on the correlation between increased IQ and agnosticism/atheism?


My thoughts are that it's obvious that those with a higher EQ will be more sceptical and challenging of what they are told, rather than acting like millions of lost dumb sheep.


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## ugh1979

borsello0216 said:


> After my so-called "religous experience" I learned I worshipped something. In my case, at the time, It Mary Jane I bowed down to. For some it is money, sex, drugs, alcohol. The devil takes many forms in my opinion. I have the opinion that it is better to do good and follow that precept than to have done nothing but complain.


Money, sex and drugs/alcohol are fine and perfectly normal when done in moderation.



> The most rediculous thought I have ever heard is we are here for no reason and nothing happens after this. Why bother.


We are here for a reason. That reason is evolution created us. If you can only think life has meaning due to an afterlife why don't you just kill yourself and get to where you want to be.



> I would think about that thought till day I day, en-raged, weary, scared and alone. Fact is no one knows me like the one who made me. And, you people act like millions are crazy and have the same delusional experiences as a million other people and we haven't seen many signs and wonders.:no


Cults can easily brainwash the millions in to believing what they decide is the 'truth', when in fact they are horrifically deluded and just plain wrong


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## ugh1979

albrecht said:


> Quarks, Leptons, and Bosons?


:clap


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## Eoin

I think that it's likely that there's a correlation between atheism and depression for the following reason. There's an excellent TED video I watched recently about the Optimism Bias, the predisposition that 80%(+) of the population have to think overly-positively about themselves and their close friends/family.

The speaker (a university scientist of some discipline I haven't investigated) referred at length to studies her department had carried out. She asked people to rank themselves according to which percentile group of humanity they thought that they fell into, accross a variety of measures. (e.g. Top 25%, Top 50%, Bottom 50% or Bottom 25%.) The sorts of questions she asked people were:

- How good are you in your dealings with other people?
- How good a driver are you?
- How good looking are you?
- How likely are you to divorce?
- How moral are you?
- How likely are you to contract cancer?

What she found was that the overwhelming majority of people who were asked these sorts of questions felt that they belonged in the top 25% of humanity, the inference being that it's clearly impossible for a majority of people to be in the top 25%. Ergo most people harbour an innately biased optimism. We know that roughly 30% of people develop cancer and around 40% of marriages in the Western world end in divorce, but most people think that these statistics are things which apply only to _other_ people.

Only two groups stood out in these studies. The first were people suffering from severe depression. The severely depressed had a pessimism bias, they consistently under-rated themselves and their chances in life. The second group were people with mild depression. Those with mild depression were largely accurate in their assessments of themselves and their chances in life.

The conclusion I've drawn from this will no doubt be contentious, and is based on my own hypothesis rather than peer reviewed studies, so by all means critique the following with all the vigour you can muster! It is my opinion that when viewed from a _strictly_ rational perspective, the case for atheism is more sound than the case for God(s). Note that I'm not making any claims over the truth or falsehood of atheism, merely that belief in God(s) requires the same sort of faith based optimistic thinking that permits one to believe that their chances of divorce are around 0%, that one is amongst the best drivers on the road and that one is amongst the most moral and fair people.

What I've said above could be construed as contentious, because to say that religious belief is 'optimistic' is itself debatable. For example, if Christianity or Islam are true, then large swathes of the world are (according to conservative religious tradition) condemned to an eternity in hell. Even many of the more 'forgiving' religions would see many people reincarnated as slugs and cockroaches. Therefore, if viewed from the perspective of universal humanism, many religions (or common interpretations of those religions) are not optimistic at all, if anything they're prospectively terrifying!

However, I think it's still true to say that the sort of religious belief I'm referring to requires an unsubstantiated optimism bias on the part of the believer. I argue this because the optimism bias has been shown to act at the level of the individual and close friends/family, not at the level of humanity as a whole. Whilst people who harbour an optimism bias are more likely to think of themselves and those close to them in a positive light, they have no such biases when it comes to society at large, let alone people they feel no affinity towards. For example, people with an optimism bias regard their own children and nephews/nieces as uniquely talented, good looking and capable. They have a more realistic view when it comes to the offspring of those they aren't closely affiliated with.

What I'm getting at here, is that in order to believe that _your_ interpretation of God and religion is correct, and that after death _your_ God will bestow privileges on you and your loved ones, requires a certain degree of optimism. Perhaps I'm naive, but I don't know many religious believers of any faith who believe that after death _they're_ going to face the wailing and nashing of teeth at the hands of fiery demons. If there are devoutly religious people who sincerely believe they're destined for hell, they can't be very numerous as I've yet to meet one!

By contrast, those who are mildly or severely depressed don't have the optimism bias present which will lead them to expect favourable treatment after death, and are therefore less likely to consider such a favourable scenario as likely. Therefore, I suspect that a greater proportion of those suffering from varying degrees of depression subscribe to atheistic thinking than the population as a whole.

Again, I wish to stress that the argument I've levied above makes no claims over the truth value of any religion, merely over the propensity of those in varying psychological states to believe in God(s). While I am an atheist, and I think I can logically justify my atheism, the above argument is not unto itself an atheistic argument, more of an independent hypothesis.

Eoin


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## SirWFC718

1. What kind of depression are we discussing? What length? What cause? 
2. Do we mean for agnosticism/atheism to be a catch-all for any position that is not a religious one? 
3.How are we to define correlation?

I think I have an idea of what is being asked, but it would be beneficial to pin such terms down for the sake of full understanding for people like me who are not on an elevated plane in which one can intuit anything that another says.

As for the followers of the Galilean peasant, cease your proselytization as it serves no purpose beyond antagonizing people who are here for genuine discussion. If one wanted to be fed imaginative and fanciful conceptions of things that cannot be empirically validated, they would present themselves in the designated forums.


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## fredbloggs02

Atheists/agnostics as I use the terms don't assert life has no intrinsic value for the knowledge it weren't beholden to a God. Without intrinsic/someone ascribing value, life is meaningless is something I don't necessarily agree with... Don't care how IQ tests assess intellect; those societies agree with will be up to date. "Intelligence" was a word I rejected on principle as a child, as the most singular prejudice thrust upon us by society long before it occured to me to question the idea of God. It felt too absurd to credit a Bernard with intelligence lol, yet those were the sorts of people the word seemed to elevate, light-weight people who eventually do something without tension that meets the criteria, nothings when the gloss gives way under a greater intensity-few possible exceptions. Not that they turned out that way; but that is what IQ tests measure don't they?


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## Noca

Well they say "ignorance is bliss", and to believe in religion, you really gotta be ignorant IMO.


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