# med school



## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

So anybody on here going into or currently attending medical school? Seems like it would be a difficult thing to go through for someone with anxiety but It's something I would really like to pursue. 

I just met with an academic advisor today and he was not the most encouraging person. My grades kind of sucked for my undergrad work in civil engineering but I graduated about 5 years ago. I was hoping I could kind of redeem myself by doing well in some of the biology and chemistry courses I'm going to have to take to even meet the requirements for med school.


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

yes...in my understanding..the pre-med pre-reqs and mcats are the most important. and since u have not taken them yet...u have a chance to do really well. plus add on any work experience since graduation and your other courses should not weight as much. i know so many people that came to community school after their degree to take pre-med pre-reqs. def. try it and im sure you'll do great! much easier if u do them at a community college too. and it shouldn't be too difficult if your driven by ur passion for it.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

becks said:


> So anybody on here going into or currently attending medical school? Seems like it would be a difficult thing to go through for someone with anxiety but It's something I would really like to pursue.
> 
> I just met with an academic advisor today and he was not the most encouraging person. My grades kind of sucked for my undergrad work in civil engineering but I graduated about 5 years ago. I was hoping I could kind of redeem myself by doing well in some of the biology and chemistry courses I'm going to have to take to even meet the requirements for med school.


pre med pre reqs are NOT easier at a cc. i go to a cc, and have students from a 4 year school take classes here sometimes and there not any easier. kids expect easy A's here, and unfortunately we need to earn it.


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

Yep. I will be a med school student starting September of this year.


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

i took pre-med pre-reqs at cc and although i did poorly, the tests (i know) are not meant to be tricky, their more upfront, and teachers give more leverage room when grading. ive had open note calculus tests at cc (that does not exist at most universities)


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## Laith (Mar 20, 2009)

Yeah, I graduate this May with my BSc and I'm gonna apply to med schools this August to start 2011.

Don't worry bout you past GPA, just get through your bio and chem pre-reqs with good grades and do good on the MCAT and I'm sure you'll have no problem. Oh, and get research/leadership/job shadowing/volunteering/etc. experience. As much as you can. That's the biggest hole in my application so far. Only have 1 leadership role down so far. I'm working on getting into some research and volunteering...in fact I'm filling out an application right now =D


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## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

Yeah, i was heavy in math being in engineering so all those pre-reqs are done for me. Unfortunately I didn't get the best grades in those classes. Mostly C's and B's. I guess It's going to be up to the chem and bio ones to make up the difference. 

I think one thing I have going for me is that I know exactly what I want to get into. I'm really interested in neuroendocrinology and I spend a bunch of my own free time reading and learning about it. I think i have a pretty unique focus and i'm really dedicated to my interest. I'm actually kind of excited to take the chem and bio pre reqs cause I think it might help me better understand some of the fundamentals of what I read and learn. I've heard that if you can demonstrate a genuine passion it helps set you apart a bit.

I would actually love to get research experience but how do you do that?


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## tribute311 (Apr 8, 2008)

im a civil engineering student right now. whats life after college like for a civil engineer? will i end up going pre-med too? haha


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## Laith (Mar 20, 2009)

becks said:


> I would actually love to get research experience but how do you do that?


For you I would suggest getting to know some of your bio/chem professors then once you've built familiarity and they know you're dedicated, ask them if you could volunteer for research in their lab. Some professors will even give you 1-3 credits for doing research in their labs.


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## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

tribute311 said:


> im a civil engineering student right now. whats life after college like for a civil engineer? will i end up going pre-med too? haha


I'm probably not the best person to ask. hehe. I'm really miserable when i'm at work but there are a lot of people out there who genuinely do enjoy it. I basically sit at my computer all day drawing lines in cad and entering numbers in spreadsheets with next to no interaction with other people. It's not good for me and on top of it I don't have any interest in what I work on. Field work is cool but thats really rare.

To each his own though. I don't want to discourage you.


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## Catlover4100 (Feb 10, 2009)

I am a pre-vet student and I'm scared like crazy! The acceptance rate to med school is about 48%, whereas the acceptance rate to vet school is about 10%. Not to mention there are only 28 accredited vet schools. I know I can do the bio and chem, but the calclus and physics are going to be a real challenge!


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## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

Catlover4100 said:


> I am a pre-vet student and I'm scared like crazy! The acceptance rate to med school is about 48%, whereas the acceptance rate to vet school is about 10%. Not to mention there are only 28 accredited vet schools. I know I can do the bio and chem, but the calclus and physics are going to be a real challenge!


I knew a bunch of pre-vet students when I got my undergrad. They had a greyhound resque at the animal hospital there and we would always go to walk them on the weekends. Anyways, a bunch of them made it in but one dropped out because she decided she didn't like it.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice guys.


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

Catlover4100 said:


> I am a pre-vet student and I'm scared like crazy! The acceptance rate to med school is about 48%, whereas the acceptance rate to vet school is about 10%. Not to mention there are only 28 accredited vet schools. I know I can do the bio and chem, but the calclus and physics are going to be a real challenge!


In the UK only about 1 in 3 applicants gets offered a place at any med school. Though I applied to the extremely competitive ones. Just take Leeds for example: Number of applicants this year was 4000, of which only about 250 will get accepted.

For veterinary medicine and dentistry the stats are also about 1 in 3. I've no idea why it's so hard to get into vet school in the US.

Hey, maybe you should immigrate to the UK. (though I don't think they will accept US high-school qualifications, so you will have to do some A levels).


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## bowlingpins (Oct 18, 2008)

Hadron said:


> I've no idea why it's so hard to get into vet school in the US.


This is because there are 28 vet schools and ~125 med schools in US. Acceptance rate at the med school I go to is 4%. I don't know the numbers for other schools but I imagine it is around 5%. Overall acceptance rate is 48% because people apply to 10-20+ schools at a time. I imagine this is not possible with vet schools since there are so few around. So if people apply to lets say 5-10 vet schools on average, their overall chances of getting in are less.


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

Banzai said:


> I think they do - I think unis have an accepted list of international qualifications which they recognise. For US people, I'd imagine it'd be the "SAT" or something along the lines of that.
> 
> ETA: http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/unde...dents/international_qualifications/index.html


Maybe for other subjects...Medicine is a completely different cattle of fish though. Apart from A levels, med schools only accept Scottish highers, international baccalaureate and European baccalaureate (don't know what they actually mean).

Edit: I just found this post in another forum:
_
I'm so glad I found this website as I was starting to get really confused __about the application process. First of all, I'm a high school junior (11th grade) in an American curriculum school in the UAE. I recently spoke to an adviser from Leeds and she told me that *I need to take the APs* *(instead of A levels)*, UCKAT, and IELTS or Toefl. I also know that I have to apply for the UCAS, but my questions are:_

I don't know what APs are, but apparently some medical schools may let you apply if you have them.:con


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

bowlingpins said:


> This is because there are 28 vet schools and ~125 med schools in US. Acceptance rate at the med school I go to is 4%. I don't know the numbers for other schools but I imagine it is around 5%. Overall acceptance rate is 48% because people apply to 10-20+ schools at a time. I imagine this is not possible with vet schools since there are so few around. So if people apply to lets say 5-10 vet schools on average, their overall chances of getting in are less.


That's interesting...

Well in the UK you are only allowed to apply to 4 medical schools. So it does mean something when you apply to the very competitive ones.

There are 32 medical schools in the UK, I think....And 7 vet schools (But there are only about 2200 applicants for veterinary medicine this year)


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

So if APs are the equivalent of A levels, anyone who wants to apply from America will have to take at least 4 APs (equivalent to 3 A levels and an As) , including biology and chemistry; And get the highest grade possible in them. That is, if they want to stand any chance....

Though I don't really know...As far as I've gathered it takes 1 year to complete an AP class, whereas it takes two years to do one A level. If you take 5 A levels you have to literally study 24/7... And, Up until three years ago, the record number of A levels taken by a single person was about 10...Are APs that intensive?...

I don't know, but I think medical schools most probably also want students applying from the US to complete the classes that will allow them to graduate high-school...

yes, that sounds more logical..


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## Laith (Mar 20, 2009)

Don't even worry about high school AP's or any of that advanced crap. A former surgeon general of the USA was a high school drop out. Meanwhile there are probably some that have gotten A's throughout highschool and college and were rejected. Med schools look at much more than your grades and the classes you've taken. It's always good to make sure you stay competitive, however.


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## bowlingpins (Oct 18, 2008)

A couple things that haven't been already mentioned

- There are 1 year programs which allow you to take 1st year medical classes like anatomy and physiology alongside medical students. These are a great help if your undergrad GPA isn't great. If you do well in these classes, you prove to the admissions committee you are capable of the workload. Honestly, as an engineering student, I think you will find the med school curriculum conceptually very simple. What may be a little harder to manage is the volume that you must master in a short period. Time management is essential. I think doing well in these 1 year programs is your best bet if your GPA isn't great (mine wasn't).

- You can do masters degree to make up for a low undergrad GPA. However, know that masters is weighted less than undergrad. A 3.8 in masters is not as great as a 3.8 in undergad. I think this is because it is easier to get higher grades in masters programs.

- You can consider osteopathic schools. Osteopathic schools grant DO degrees unlike allopathic schools which give MD. Both schools have very similar curriculum. Osteopathic schools are easier to get into but their graduates have a little harder time matching into competitive residencies. But if your heart is set on something non-competitive like primary care, DO schools are a great option.

- Foreign schools i.e. Carribean - generally the last option. Very easy to get into, high failure rates, minimal chance of getting back into US residences.

- Overall though, I think you stand a good chance of getting accepted if you do well on your remaining prereqs. Also, please have an explanation for why you did not do as well 5 years ago when you are interviewing (it will come up, trust me). You may even consider explaining it in your personal statement.

- Do well on the MCAT. Take advantage of the fact that you can take it more than once. Once you are in med school, you only have single shot at the board exams.

- 2 hours of volunteering a week for a year is better than 20 hours a week for a month because the latter looks like resume padding and does not show long term dedication. Shadowing can be condensed into few weeks though.

- Leadership? I am clueless. Only thing I had in my application that was faintly leadership material was tutoring middle school students.

- Research. If you get a paper published you will look like a stud. Otherwise, know the research topic well and try to be enthusiastic about it in your application, interviews. (again it will come up in interviews).

Also, SDN is a very valuable resource. Have a look if you haven't already http://www.studentdoctor.net/


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## jane (Jan 30, 2006)

There's a lot of good advice about how to get in, but ask yourself if this is what you really, really, really want. Most people just take for granted that medical school is a wonderful goal, regardless of your personality or interests. 
A lot of people drop out because medical school isn't what they expected. Most med students are social, outgoing, competitive, completely dedicated, more than a little egotistical, and are either very confident, or very good at faking it. Also, being a doctor isn't just about treating patients, it's about being a team leader and a teacher. Ask yourself if you can handle that.


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## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

Wow, thanks for all the info, that helps a lot. I'm hoping that eventually I can get some kind of research experience and it seems like that should help me. I've also heard there is a huge shortage of people going to medical school who actually want to go into research so I'm hoping that will eventually work in my favor to.


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## bamf (Feb 18, 2010)

im a third year med student. yes, the majority of med students are outgoing type a personalities, but there is really a wide spectrum. if you are competent it wont matter so much if you are chatty, but you will probably stand out. ask yourself now if you are going to be happy doing presentations and teaching and interacting with patients. if you are more interested in research it may make more sense to go the phd route...


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## Laith (Mar 20, 2009)

I got a volunteer position at a hospice today:banana

..and a urologist (the best urologist in my city) agreed to let me job shadow him. So I'll be doing that shortly as well. 

Just gotta struggle to balance these along with everything else I'm doing. So busy. I also signed up for the MCAT prep course... starts May 18th. I take the MCAT July 8th.


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## bowlingpins (Oct 18, 2008)

Today in clinic I saw a person with abd. pain and other vague symptoms. She was worried that she had ovarian cancer. I told her I didn't think that was it. I thought something in the bowels was causing the symptoms. She was relieved to hear that. We did a CT scan as per usual protocol. In the afternoon, the results were faxed over. Sure enough, it showed a big old mass in the belly - ovarian neoplasm the paper said. Advanced too, I am sure. Dismal prognosis. Less than 40% chance of surviving 5 years, 10% chance of surviving 10. I was stunned. Due to some strange coincidence, the next person I was to see was the husband of this woman. A remarkably healthy guy given his age. In good spirits too. I was extra nice with him but knew this wouldn't change a thing. When he would return home that evening, his life would be turned upside down. 
Medicine can be sucky at times.


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## citizenerased1987 (Oct 17, 2009)

bowlingpins said:


> Today in clinic I saw a person with abd. pain and other vague symptoms. She was worried that she had ovarian cancer. I told her I didn't think that was it. I thought something in the bowels was causing the symptoms. She was relieved to hear that. We did a CT scan as per usual protocol. In the afternoon, the results were faxed over. Sure enough, it showed a big old mass in the belly - ovarian neoplasm the paper said. Advanced too, I am sure. Dismal prognosis. Less than 40% chance of surviving 5 years, 10% chance of surviving 10. I was stunned. Due to some strange coincidence, the next person I was to see was the husband of this woman. A remarkably healthy guy given his age. In good spirits too. I was extra nice with him but knew this wouldn't change a thing. When he would return home that evening, his life would be turned upside down.
> Medicine can be sucky at times.


uuuggggh, thats just awful. I guess thats the other side of medicine, telling someone the bad news.


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## Squizzy (Dec 21, 2004)

I used to be a biochemistry major and pre-med student but I changed my major. I am so glad I dropped out of the rat-race, it is so competitive and made my anxiety levels very high. How were you all successful in your interviews? I am sure a second after I opened my mouth they would show me to the door. In any case, I am really impressed and amazed by people who make it to medical school. It takes a level of dedication and work that I cannot even comprehend.

For me, I am now a nursing student and very happy


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## citizenerased1987 (Oct 17, 2009)

tbh, studying medicine is something I have always wanted to do. Its like my dream job but I never thought I would be able because of anxiety. I am starting to think about applying as a graduate. My problem is that it takes dedication and I dont know if I would be able to see it through with anxiety and depression.


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## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

hmm, this is definitely where my interests are. I really do worry that I don't have the personality for it though. I'm not a go get em type guy and I really do worry that it wouldn't be the best fit for me. The thing is that I have a genuine interest in neurology and biospychiatry. I'm on medline and google scholar all the time and have basically taught myself all of the latest theories and models of depression/anxiety. The stuff is fascinating to me and I believe that we're in a really important time as far as breakthroughs are concerned with these disorders.

The obvious thing to do would be to get a phd in neuroscience and contribute to the research that's going on. But what do you do with that? I go that route and I'm stuck in academia. Academia creates theories and does research that takes a lifetime to actually find it's way into practice. On the other hand, most medical practitioners don't have the time, the resources, or the ability to implement the latest research into their treatments. 

I want to be in the middle. I'm sure a lot of people say this but i would like to be able to bridge the gap, or at least try. So where do I go? Academia or medicine? Most of the people I see that I want to emulate became medical doctors. I have no illusion that med school is easy and honestly residency sounds a little like hell on earth. I do know that I don't want to wind up with a phd and find myself without the ability to put into practice what I find. So, I don't know. I'm only getting older and I don't really want to delay any longer.


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## MattFoley (Dec 5, 2009)

citizenerased1987 said:


> tbh, studying medicine is something I have always wanted to do. Its like my dream job but I never thought I would be able because of anxiety. I am starting to think about applying as a graduate. My problem is that it takes dedication and I dont know if I would be able to see it through with anxiety and depression.


This is exactly where I'm at mentally. What was your undergrad degree?


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## bowlingpins (Oct 18, 2008)

Squizzy said:


> I am so glad I dropped out of the rat-race, it is so competitive and made my anxiety levels very high.


The rat race never ends. You may think once you are in medical school, you are golden.. set for life. But this is not so. In medical school, the competition gets even more intense than undegrad. Almost everyone is serious, hardworking, reasonably intelligent and on top of stuff. For a person who has an anxiety disorder, they are a step behind from the get go. It is very stressful because they are constantly being measured against classmates who, for the most part, are outgoing and assertive.

I am getting tired of the competition, the stress and the anxiety, so I am managing it by simply lowering expectations.

Anyway, good for you that you like what you do. Nurses at one time (in the 60s) did not have much autonomy but now they are better trained and are an important part of the team. They have been known to save doctors butts in many cases .. so their help and input is always appreciated.

Now only if the CRNAs would stop lobbying for equal rights as MD anesthesiologists. This really, really makes me mad .. they have <2000 hours of training compared to 17,000+ for an MD anesthesiologist yet they want equal rights and independence to practice on their own....ridiculous.


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## sherbert (Jun 24, 2005)

Being that I have been through this, I feel mental health is vitally important and psychiatry would be a worthy goal. There are things about psych. that annoy me. The ambiguity I think is quite irritating; how do you know if you are helping? At least with a medical approach you are able to see cause and effect. 

Do I really want to go? No. It sounds like pure hell. Plus I haven't taken a math class or science class in nearly six years. There's also the obvious issue of time and money. I am getting close to the point where it would not be practical without serious concessions. What interests me, is the ability to enact change, which is essential to being an m.d. 


Even as I type this, I am in doubt. There are just so many things stacked against me. I don't know if I have the emotional fortitude to withstand such a rigorous system.


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