# Are you religious?



## AlienOnEarth (Dec 5, 2004)

I used to be.. but no more.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

No, but I do believe in God.


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## JDWorm (Mar 18, 2004)

I'm not religious--I don't think. Sometimes I am conflicted.


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## glassjoe (Nov 15, 2003)

No, but I do believe in God.

I think almost all religious rituals and duties get more in the way rather than help, spirituality-wise. But that's just me. I'm sure a lot of people are different and find some rituals to be very helpful.


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## Desi (Nov 18, 2003)

I am an agnostic, I am undecided about god's presence.
Even if there was some kind of god I think I would never become religious.


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## Mellah (Nov 10, 2003)

Yes. But sadly, I only practice some rituals and duties

I do believe in god.


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## michaelg (Jan 29, 2005)

I don't know. How am I supposed to know?


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## bk (May 2, 2004)

agnostic


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## bellicose (Sep 16, 2004)

Atheist here. But I'm very relaxed about it and haven't been militant in professing my views lately... so whatever, just don't anyone give me a bible for Christmas or nail a crucifix to my door. :b


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I go to church regularly. He's done so much for me in the past five years.


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## rainboots (Jun 25, 2004)

Agnostic.


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## Fly (Apr 9, 2004)

Agnostic


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## LilyFair (Nov 8, 2003)

Atheist but relaxed about it. My ears don't burn when I hear the word God. :b


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## ophelia (Feb 29, 2004)

I chose: No, but I do believe in God.
Though I don't believe in "God", as in the big man in the sky. I believe in god as in a feeling, as in love, as in the deepth inside of us.
Though I don't know... I'm still working through all this.
I believe mostly in science and the power of love.


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## meggiehamilton (Nov 12, 2003)

Yes I believe in God but only practice my religion like going to church once in awhile.


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## Melatonin (Feb 8, 2005)

Yes, I do believe in God and I attended church weekly. But I've backslid quite a bit in recent years.


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## ghostgurl (Sep 20, 2004)

No, but I believe in God, and I believe he is an abstract being.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

For the few who don't know, I'm an atheist and think religion is the ultimate lie & most widely believed myth.


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## Sinya (Feb 14, 2005)

No, I don't believe in God.


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## Paradox (Aug 9, 2004)

I guess I'm agnostic.


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## Jim (Nov 11, 2003)

Atheist.


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## Reeses (Jan 12, 2005)

I guess there's some kind of tie between not being religious and SA


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## JayDee (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm somewhat religious. I call myself religious, but I doubt God's presence sometimes


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

By "practice religious rituals and duties" do you mean going to church and sitting there while the Pastor talks?

I do not consider myself to be a religious man. 

I believe in God. 
I believe in Jesus Christ and try to live my life in accordance with his teachings. 
I attend church. 
I sing in the choir.
I take Communion.
I play percussion in the band.
I participate in the Love Feast. 

I believe that no two people believe exatly the same. That there are an inifinite number of aspects to God. That he has manifested himself in many different ways. Through Jesus, Mohommed, Budha, Earth Mother, Great Spirit and many more.


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## Havalina (Dec 18, 2004)

I don't know what I think anymore...


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## Jackie (Jan 8, 2004)

nope not religious


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

Agnostic. 

Have a nice day,
Kelly


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## nbll12 (Feb 16, 2005)

Yes, but I don't really practice.


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## 4relief (Mar 30, 2005)

atheist and hoping i'm wrong.


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## heavymetal (Jan 28, 2005)

Amocholes said:


> I do not consider myself to be a religious man.
> 
> I believe in God.
> I believe in Jesus Christ and try to live my life in accordance with his teachings.
> ...


That sounds religious to me, if not an active Christian committment, unless you mean you don't study the Bible or seek to learn about other religious beliefs and that that makes you feel you are not a "religious man." :stu

I'm committed to Christianity and accept Jesus Christ as my Savior without a doubt, so I guess in that way I'm religious.


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## Frankie Mac (Aug 29, 2004)

I don't believe in God.


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## elvn (Jul 11, 2004)

Agnosticated!


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## shyguydan (Dec 30, 2004)

i don't practice religious beliefs but i believe in god


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## Sweetpea (Nov 28, 2003)

athiest: I want to become a pagan but ive just not got round to it. :afr 

Guess Im a humanist at the mo


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## Mork (Apr 11, 2005)

I don't participate in organized religion, but I believe in God and I follow a spiritual path. I was raised going to church every week, but what brought me close to God has by my experiences in nature.


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## mystic2102 (Mar 4, 2005)

I wasn't sure how to answer this. I consider myself a Christian, but I don't attend church. I don't know if I can call myself a Christian if I don't go to church, but that is what I believe.


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## trollioso (May 22, 2005)

*bad things*

If there is a god why are there such horible things happening. War, rape, genocide, starvation, earthquakes, floods. If god created the earth, birds, people, and everything else. Why are these bad things happening? The best answer that I have got is to test your faith. Sounds like some BS to me.


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## raalka (Nov 14, 2004)

agnostic.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: bad things*



trollioso said:


> If there is a god why are there such horible things happening. War, rape, genocide, starvation, earthquakes, floods.


Well, that's because "the Lord works in mysterious ways" -- standard excuse when a believer doesn't have any real answer.

The believers point to all the wonders of the world and say "How can there not be a God", while atheists can just as easily point to the all the evil and ask "How can there be a God that allows this?" If there is a God, then he's like a cop who sits in his squad car eating his jelly donut as he watches a murder in progress and does nothing to help.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I don't believe in God.


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## Planewalker (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm an agnostic with atheistic tendencies. I do not feel the presence of a divine entity, nor feel the need to believe in one. I explain religion through sociological theories. However, I cannot be sure that there is no god, nor any other metaphysical entity. Therefore I am forever doubting, questioning and inquiring; deconstructing rigid dogmas with science, but never quite passing to the atheist side. In other words, I don't know but I'm open to suggestions, and will accept any that seems logical to me.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Planewalker said:


> I do not feel the presence of a divine entity...


When I ask people why they believe in God it always boils down to "I just feel him". It's a feeling I've never had yet.



Planewalker said:


> However, I cannot be sure that there is no god, nor any other metaphysical entity. Therefore I am forever doubting, questioning and inquiring; deconstructing rigid dogmas with science, but never quite passing to the atheist side. In other words, I don't know...


Any atheist or believer who is honest must say the only true answer is "I don't know" as neither side can prove they are right. I don't think one has to be certain that there is no god to be an atheist. One merely has to conclude that god not existing is more believable and likely case.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

I believe in God and Jesus Christ, and usually pray every day, but I haven't deepened my faith as of yet, by thoroughly reading the Bible, and going to church.....I don't think that church or organized religion is necessary to believe in God, or to be a good Christian.(Accepting Christ, admitting you are a sinner, and asking for forgiveness is all that is necessary to be Saved)I think church can provide support, and a sense of fellowship..My goal this summer is to read the Bible, and walk 30 minutes a day for exercise....
They actually have books on spiritual walking, Christianity, and meditation, where you devote yourself to thought as you walk....I ordered a couple of these books, and am waiting for them to be delivered.I also ordered several books for understanding the Bible, and reading it in a more modern version that this generation can understand....There are a lot of Bruce&Stan's guides for Christianity, guides for understanding the Bible etc.I think they make it a a lot easier to understand the Bible for novice like myself.Now, I just have to start exerting myself....


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## Piscean Wisdom (Mar 11, 2005)

Atheist


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## themousethatroared (Nov 11, 2006)

No I am not religious


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm anti-religion, and don't care whether there's a God. 
But I've always been inclined to think there isn't one, because since God created humans and humans created God, it's a "chicken and the egg" problem.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

I hate religion


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## mayblue (Oct 1, 2005)

I'm religious. I go to church sometimes.


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## Bad Religion (Dec 14, 2006)

Nope, I'm an atheist.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

Agnostic.

Even still, if there truly is some "supreme being", he seems to be unconcerned with us, so I guess it doesn't really matter anyway.


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## Arkturus (Dec 10, 2006)

Agnostic, maybe there is and maybe there aint. However, I also think that the religions practiced around the world(Christianity/Judaism/Islam...) are *extremely* unlikely to be true.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

atheist


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

Atheists represent.


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## mayblue (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



Arkturus said:


> Agnostic, maybe there is and maybe there aint. However, I also think that the religions practiced around the world(Christianity/Judaism/Islam...) are *extremely* unlikely to be true.


I agree with you, even though I'm religious. I think God is beyond human understanding, and religions are what people have come up with in an attempt to understand. I wish more religious people would acknowledge that we can't be sure about anything when it comes to God.


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## Vincenzo (Sep 24, 2005)

Ardent atheist


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## anarchist_penn (Jan 21, 2006)

atheist,the hardcore variety.


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## Steel Breeze (Jan 16, 2007)

Not unless Pink Floyd or Big Ten Football count

No? I guess I'm still an atheist :evil


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## ShyFX (Mar 6, 2006)

Agnostic. I don't follow any religion.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

Religion is a social activity, sets of beliefs and practices developed by societies over the millenia. Believers manage to believe such odd stuff because they reinforce each other, a sort of group-think. Hence I'm not surprised by the poll results suggesting a correlation between non-socialness and non-religiousness.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I am an atheist.


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## QuietTexan (Nov 15, 2005)

I believe in God. But beyond that, I really don't know (about which religion is right, who goes to heaven, etc). The only ritual I do is pray now and then.


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## SusanStorm (Oct 27, 2006)

I don't belive in God,but I'm interested in spiritual stuff..


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## person86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Complete athiest. I have one of these on the back of my car:


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



person86 said:


> Complete athiest. I have one of these on the back of my car:


I had one of those once. One day, I went shopping, and came back to find that some *** had ripped it off and scraped it down the side of my car. :mum

actually, I'm only guessing that's what they used, because it didn't look like a metal (key) scrape. it looked like something plastic did it. in fact, I think there were two lines, meaning that they had used the tail.


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## staceypie (Nov 2, 2006)

Agnostic, almost athiest. Mostly I just don't care.


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## Roberto (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



person86 said:


> Complete athiest. I have one of these on the back of my car:


i've never seen that before. clever. :lol

i'm not religious, but that doesn't mean i won't dare to believe in something or stay mindful of other possibilities. i think maybe a lot of people i know don't think about it because when they do they get depressed - but when you're depressed anyway you don't care :lol


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



person86 said:


> Complete athiest. I have one of these on the back of my car:


I need one of those. Actually, I need a car first. But then I need a sticker like that.

Oh and btw I guess I'm agnostic. Actually everyone really *should* be agnostic but some people just like to have an opinion about everything, even about things that are unknowable. So there.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm similar to Zephyr.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

I am an atheist.


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

This is a very irreligious board. Only 41 percent of participants believe in God, compared with 90 percent of the American population. I suppose anxiety gives one more perspective, not to mention a lot of lonesome time to ponder such questions.


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## glittergaze (May 4, 2005)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



Invisible_girl said:


> I don't belive in God,but I'm interested in spiritual stuff..


 :ditto I'm mostly Agnostic. My boyfriend's Wiccan... if I were to choose a religion, it would probably be that one.


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

orpheus said:


> ..compared with 90 percent of the American population.


I doubt it's really 90%. I'd like to know exactly who they sample when taking those polls. From people I've known, it's more like 50/50.


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## Chrysalii (Jun 24, 2006)

No, but I do believe in some form of god.


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## Gerard (Feb 3, 2004)

I have a Buddhist worldview but I don't necessarily want to seek Enlightment. Not in this lifetime.


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## AdamCanada (Dec 6, 2003)

agnostic


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## Hypnofrog (Aug 17, 2007)

orpheus said:


> This is a very irreligious board. Only 41 percent of participants believe in God, compared with 90 percent of the American population. I suppose anxiety gives one more perspective, not to mention a lot of lonesome time to ponder such questions.


You have to be from the U.S. to post here??

I think of god in the same way as Christians think of Zeus.

i.e. I'm an atheist


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## leppardess (Nov 8, 2003)

I'm spiritual, not religious.


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## Becky (Nov 5, 2003)

I have a hard time believing in a higher power :stu


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## OnyxHeart (Jun 13, 2005)

I believe in a personal God, life after death, and practical spirituality ("do unto others"...ect)

I don't have a problem with religion per se; I _do_ have a problem with conservative religion (Calvinism in particular...)


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

I can't believe this thread has been going off and on for more than 2 years and I never noticed it. Recently, after reading Richard Dawkin's (a strong atheist) book "The God Delusion" I thought it might be time to do a re-assessment of my long-standing agnostic position. I suppose I could be an atheist if it was only dependent upon a lack of belief in the gods of the traditional religions but according to most of the dictionary definitions an atheist is someone who disbelieves in the existence of *any and all gods. *Therefore, since I believe it is possible that there could be a god(small "g") out there somewhere, it only seems fitting that I retain my agnostic status.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



Zephyr said:


> person86 said:
> 
> 
> > Complete athiest. I have one of these on the back of my car:
> ...


You can get bumper stickers, tee-shirts etc. from the Darwin Day program at a reasonable price. The bumper stickers are very durable as the one I have has lasted me several years and remains looking brand new. However, be prepared for some individuals to take exception to the stickers and give you some indication of their displeasure with them. :lol
http://www.darwinday.org/


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

I like the whole AA 'god of our understanding' idea. Okay, since we can freely accept the God of our choosing, I opt for a god like Dionysus who likes to drink and mingle with the ladies.


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## Augustinus (Mar 17, 2007)

Only 5% are religious and actually practice their religion?! :sigh :no 




:evil


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## Links (Dec 30, 2006)

Yes I am religious and I attend church weekly. However, I voted for the second one since I have not been confirmed yet.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



free thinker said:


> I can't believe this thread has been going off and on for more than 2 years and I never noticed it. Recently, after reading Richard Dawkin's (a strong atheist) book "The God Delusion" I thought it might be time to do a re-assessment of my long-standing agnostic position. I suppose I could be an atheist if it was only dependent upon a lack of belief in the gods of the traditional religions but according to most of the dictionary definitions an atheist is someone who disbelieves in the existence of *any and all gods. *Therefore, since I believe it is possible that there could be a god(small "g") out there somewhere, it only seems fitting that I retain my agnostic status.


I just finished TGD yesterday. Very interesting. It's also pretty funny and I like a lot of the quotes and anecdotes contained therein.

Maybe the thing that most struck me was the unfortunate case of Edgardo Mortara. It's crazy the stuff that has been done in the name of religion.


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## Fiera (Sep 1, 2005)

Agnostic


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

For those interested in a non-scientific perspective of atheism, I recommend Christopher Hitchens' latest book. I think like most atheists he's a tad strident for my tastes, but it was a nice read nonetheless.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

It seems I'm as non-religious as humanly possible. Last week there was some post that linked to a thing that rated how much you match up with some 26 religions. My #1 match, with a 100% match, was non-theist which seems another name for Atheist.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



Augustinus said:


> Only 5% are religious and actually practice their religion?! :sigh :no
> 
> :evil


Don't forget, this board makes Boston or San Francisco seem like Provo 
Utah in comparison...Poll results here have absolutely no semblance to those in the real world...


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## Augustinus (Mar 17, 2007)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



WinterDave said:


> Don't forget, this board makes Boston or San Francisco seem like Provo
> Utah in comparison...


I don't know what you mean here, I've never been to Provo Utah. :lol



> Poll results here have absolutely no semblance to those in the real world...


Well, I should hope so! I constantly hear how the U.S. is so conservative (with exception of the coasts), yet the religious people are a minority here! :con


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: re: Are you religious?*



WinterDave said:


> Augustinus said:
> 
> 
> > Only 5% are religious and actually practice their religion?! :sigh :no
> ...


Not a responsible thing for a mod to denigrate the members... :b

I think the results are closer to Europe and most of the first world other than the U.S.

Within the US, the number of non-religious people have doubled in the last decade, while the number of Christians has fallen. Not only that, but many who claim to be Christian are grasping at straws


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Admittedly, I have not read the last 7 pages of this thread. I didnt vote on this one until now because I didnt feel like the options are all that great. I am probably splitting hairs here but how does one define "religous" anyway? And what constitutes practicing that "religion"? 

I dont think most of the polls on SAS reflect the real world but then again polls overall tend to be rather skewed.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Penny said:


> ...how does one define "religious" anyway? And what constitutes practicing that "religion"?


Religious generally means belief in some sort higher power [god(s) and/or goddess(es)]. Of course, Satanism is deemed a religion yet they are atheists who believe in nothing supernatural, so even that definition clearly isn't enough. Ritual is one item that often defines a religion (and even Satanism has that -- in fact, ritual would appear to be almost the only thing that Satanism has that Atheism doesn't). Reading a bible or other holy text and wearing a cross or other equivalent symbol seems common to many religions. Gathering in some form of church would be another common, though not required, item. I think those items would adequately cover most religions.



Penny said:


> I dont think most of the polls on SAS reflect the real world but then again polls overall tend to be rather skewed.


Agree, SAS is vastly less religious and vastly more liberal than America in general. Also, vastly younger, which in part I think explains the first two items. I don't know what the full explanation would be. Perhaps people with SA may tend to feel there can't be a god as what god would screw them with SA? Just a theory -- I don't know.


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

over the course of my life ive had moments of doubt and cynicism.

but yes i believe in god and i accept jesus as my lord and savior.

am i religious? probably not. im know im not worthy enough to carry a good christian's shoes. but i try to do my best.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

odun said:


> over the course of my life ive had moments of doubt and cynicism.
> 
> but yes i believe in god and i accept jesus as my lord and savior.
> 
> am i religious? probably not. im know im not worthy enough to carry a good christian's shoes. but i try to do my best.


Another "I agree with Odun" moment for me :eek ....wow that is three recently :b

But seriously I do agree. I dont really adhere to any "religion" and I think that is often confused with belief in God. There are many people that practice "religion" and simply go through the motions and it means nothing. I dont "practice" enough and my anxiety has kept me from going to church, something I would actually really like to do.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think most of the polls on SAS reflect the real world but then again polls overall tend to be rather skewed.
> ...


Well SAS is a very slight international board. I know we have some U.K and New Zealand people. That could shift the results a bit.


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

If the little X next to the poll is the new feature which signifies what we voted for, this poll has me voted the EXACT opposite of what I believe. :mum


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Athiests can be pretty damn religious.. especially those who broadcast their beliefs to anyone who will listen, are offended when people disagree, believe their way of thinking is superior and use common symbols such as the darwin fish.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

LostInReverie said:


> Athiests can be pretty damn religious.. especially those who broadcast their beliefs to anyone who will listen, are *offended when people disagree, believe their way of thinking is superior* and use common symbols such as the darwin fish.


Agreed.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> Athiests can be pretty damn religious..especially those who broadcast their beliefs to anyone who will listen, are offended when people disagree, believe their way of thinking is superior and use common symbols such as the darwin fish.


These traits make someone religious? Not based on any definition of "religious" I've ever seen. Furthermore, I've never seen a non-believer get "offended" by someone based on their beliefs. Certainly frustrated by not offended. However, I've seen many believers get greatly offended by hearing the beliefs of non-believers.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

free thinker said:


> These traits make someone religious? Not based on any definition of "religious" I've ever seen. Furthermore, I've never seen a non-believer get "offended" by someone based on their beliefs. However, I've seen the reverse on many occasions. Ever think that it is your strong bias that is causing you to inaccurately assess a situation?


Yes, darlin, I was using the word in a way that isn't specified in a dictionary, yet I still believe you would be able to catch my meaning. There are plenty of examples on this very forum which show people getting worked up over the idea that there is a God. Many athiests post with the same passion as those who believe in the supernatural.

Ever think that your strong bias causes you to inaccurately assess a situation? Didn't think so.  (would you stop changing your post so that I can respond to it correctly?)


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> Yes, darlin,


Okay, honey.  


> I was using the word in a way that isn't specified in a dictionary, yet I still believe you would be able to catch my meaning.


Probably best to stick to the actual meaning of the word. It makes it easier for others to interpret you accurately. 


> There are plenty of examples on this very forum which show people getting worked up over the idea that there is a God. Many athiests post with the same passion as those who believe in the supernatural.


Same passion, however, that is much different from being offended by someone's beliefs.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> Ever think that your strong bias causes you to inaccurately assess a situation? Didn't think so.


But there is a difference between my bias and your bias. Any bias I hold is objectively-based and derived from what I have learnd from the scientific community's years of research and understanding, and yours, as you have admitted, is purely subjective and therefore much more likely to be prone to error.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Once again our ways of thinking clash. I choose words for a certain impression, to paint a picture of a concept, not just as a means to communicate information. How we speak reflects our personality. You focus in on brushstrokes instead of looking at the picture as a whole.

(and thank you for inserting such a good example of that picture)


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

free thinker said:


> But there is a difference between my bias and your bias. Any bias I hold is objectively-based and derived from what I have learnd from the scientific community's years of research and understanding, and yours, as you have admitted, is purely subjective and therefore much more likely to be prone to error.


Subjectivity is not more prone to error, it just cannot be proven objectively. You are comparing apples with oranges. You believe that the five senses are superior to one's conscience and subjective feelings. I disagree with that belief.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> Once again our ways of thinking clash. I choose words for a certain impression, to paint a picture of a concept, not to just as a means to communicate information. How we speak reflects our personality. You focus in on brushstrokes instead of looking at the picture as a whole.


That may be okay if you are trying to communicate with yourself(possibly through art) or to those who are very familiar with your subjectivist view of the world, but when you are communicating with the rest of us, its best to use proper English. That's what the language is for. I'm sure you could have used a more appropriate term that would have accurately expressed your "concept" to all.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

free thinker said:


> That may be okay if you are trying to communicate with yourself(possibly through art) or to those who are very familiar with your subjectivist view of the world, but when you are communicating with the rest of us, its best to use proper English. That's what the language is for. I'm sure you could have used a more appropriate term that would have accurately expressed your "concept" to all.


Merely because you do not understand my meaning does not mean that others share your confusion. Dictionaries hardly define a language. What matters in communication is how people perceive words. I apologize that my writing style bothers you, but I certainly don't post for you. Now I need to stop, because I am exceptionally moody right now and you are giving me a headache.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> Subjectivity is not more prone to error, it just cannot be proven objectively. You are comparing apples with oranges. You believe that the five senses are superior to one's conscience and subjective feelings. I disagree with that belief.


It can be easily shown that subjectivity is far more prone to error. All you have to do is look back on how the ancient peoples viewed the world in pre-science days. Weren't Zeus, Thor, the sun god Ra and the hundreds of other human-created gods all subjectively-based concepts? How about the superstitious concepts the ancients had of the weather, disease, and Earth changes? If we didn't have the factually-based information that we have gathered over the years we'd still be thinking the way of the ancients.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

free thinker said:


> It can be easily shown that subjectivity is far more prone to error. All you have to do is look back on how the ancient peoples viewed the world in pre-science days. Weren't Zeus, Thor, the sun god Ra and the hundreds of other human-created gods all subjectively-based concepts? How about the superstitious concepts the ancients had of the weather, disease, and earth changes? If we didn't have the factually-based information that we have gathered over the years we'd still be thinking the way of the ancients.


There is no such thing as "pre-science". Science is just our observations and theories of a world that exists with or without our knowledge regarding it. Just because we figure out that we receive certain amounts of daylight due to the Earth revolving around the sun, it does not indicate that there could not be a God that created and/or maintains it. This may seem odd to you, but the "ancients" could have correctly recognized a higher power and incorrectly understood how the Earth works at the same time.

Go to bed, Elizabeth.... Alright, I'm going.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

LostInReverie said:


> free thinker said:
> 
> 
> > These traits make someone religious? Not based on any definition of "religious" I've ever seen. Furthermore, I've never seen a non-believer get "offended" by someone based on their beliefs. However, I've seen the reverse on many occasions. Ever think that it is your strong bias that is causing you to inaccurately assess a situation?
> ...


Are you actually going anywhere with your passion argument? Because you havn't actually made a point at all.

If a person insisted repeatedly that something wrong is actually true (say this person thinks 2+2=5) then what's the problem with me vigorously showing that he in fact wrong?


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Did I say it was wrong?


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

My point was simply that athiesm acts the same as any organized religion. It is a specific belief system which is defined by a very limited way of thinking.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

LostInReverie said:


> My point was simply that athiesm acts the same as any organized religion. It is a specific belief system which is defined by a very limited way of thinking.


Please demonstarte how a limited way of thinking is part of athiesm.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

The assumption that there is no god is just as narrow as the assumption that there is a God. You have closed your mind to countless possibilities. 

If you are right and I am wrong, then oh well we both end up dead.

If I am right and you are wrong, you end up in hell.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

Does thinking that _only_ 2+2=4 make me closed minded? No, it makes me right.

LostInReverie is the kind of person that would build an airplane with concrete or lead or whatever because _only_ using aluminium and titanium is closed minded to countless possibilities. You can have your countless possibilities. I'll have something that actually works.


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## Inturmal (Jan 15, 2006)

LostInReverie said:


> If you are right and I am wrong, then oh well we both end up dead.
> If I am right and you are wrong, you end up in hell.


I'm glad I don't live in fear like that. 

Believing due to fear is the weakest form of belief there is. Fear-mongering is probably the best way to control people though.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Inturmal said:


> LostInReverie said:
> 
> 
> > If you are right and I am wrong, then oh well we both end up dead.
> ...


I don't live in fear of God.

I live in fear of people.

And anyways, it wasn't a threat. It was an explanation of my motivation for arguing my beliefs with passion.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

Qolselanu said:


> Does thinking that _only_ 2+2=4 make me closed minded? No, it makes me right.
> 
> LostInReverie is the kind of person that would build an airplane with concrete or lead or whatever because _only_ using aluminium and titanium is closed minded to countless possibilities. You can have your countless possibilities. I'll have something that actually works.


So now you think you know me, huh? "LostInReverie" is not a person at all.

But anyway, your metaphor is ****ed up. It would be like me testing out various materials while you use only what you know works. Being open to possibilities is how technology advances.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

I'd be open to a new alloy being developed that is similar to titanium or aluminium for building an airplane. But giving equal credence to a material wholly dissimilar from an established material which has been shown to work well in the past is madness.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

I knew I should have never looked at this thread. I am done here, and not because I have no reply but because I'm sick of arguing and as I said before, I am exceptionally moody right now.

Believe what you will.


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## anarchist_penn (Jan 21, 2006)

LostInReverie said:


> Qolselanu said:
> 
> 
> > Does thinking that _only_ 2+2=4 make me closed minded? No, it makes me right.
> ...


Are you open minded about the invisible pink unicorn and flying spaghetti monster?


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## SilentProphet (Jun 1, 2007)

Phil Anselmo recently said it best about his thoughts on religion.


"Bible class was interesting because I don't believe in that school of thought. I consider myself a free thinker, you know? God is a tough word for me to even use, because I feel like God's in everyone's heart. However, man is the only creature on this planet that has to look for something bigger than him to get him through the day, so I respect that and don't want to trample on anyone's beliefs."


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Qolselanu said:


> I'd be open to a new alloy being developed that is similar to titanium or aluminium for building an airplane. But giving equal credence to a material wholly dissimilar from an established material which has been shown to work well in the past is madness.


I believe there is a new passenger jet made by Boeing that is made of almost all plastic.

Oh yeah here it its... http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_25/b3938037_mz011.htm


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

If one can stretch the definition of 'religion' to include something marked by: the absence of a faith in the supernatural or deities; the absence of churches; the absence of clergymen; the absence of prayers or sacrifices or a creed or a heaven or a hell; the absence of dogma; the absence of an afterlife; the absence of indoctrination and incantations and rituals and offerings....in short, if one can stretch the definition of religion to include everything religion is _not_, then sure, atheism is a religion. Just as much as bald is another hair colour, I suppose.

Of course, a-Isisism and a-Zeusism and a-Mardukism are also just religions then. Hey, there might be a 'holy' war between those three and atheists! That might get quite entertaining.


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> The assumption that there is no god is just as narrow as the assumption that there is a God. You have closed your mind to countless possibilities.
> 
> If you are right and I am wrong, then oh well we both end up dead.
> 
> If I am right and you are wrong, you end up in hell.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

=/


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> The assumption that there is no god is just as narrow as the assumption that there is a God. You have closed your mind to countless possibilities.
> 
> If you are right and I am wrong, then oh well we both end up dead.
> 
> If I am right and you are wrong, you end up in hell.


Hitchens compares this type of cost-benefit analysis to the barking of a used car salesperson... What kind of piety is that?


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

sprinter said:


> Qolselanu said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be open to a new alloy being developed that is similar to titanium or aluminium for building an airplane. But giving equal credence to a material wholly dissimilar from an established material which has been shown to work well in the past is madness.
> ...


Interesting. Of coruse if I ever see a plane made of concrete I'll eat my hat


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## Hypnofrog (Aug 17, 2007)

LostInReverie said:


> Dictionaries hardly define a language.


That's one of the funniest things I've read in ages.

It was meant to be a joke, right?


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Speaking of Pascal's Wager, I saw a funny cartoon the other day:


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## Hypnofrog (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks Zephyr! :lol 

Of course, it could be one of these gods too:

Agdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Amaterasu, An, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder, Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brigit, Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, Cheng-huang, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina, Davlin, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Epona, Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Hades, Hanuman, Helios, Heng-o, Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Hestia, Huitzilopochtli, Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jupiter, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kukulcan, Lakshmi, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Magna Mater, Marduk, Mars, Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, Mummu, Nammu, Nanna, Nanna, Nanse, Nemesis, Nephthys, Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nut, Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Re, Rhea, Sabazius, Sarasvati, Shiva, Seshat, Seti, Shamash, Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Tiamat, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil, or Zeus.

Or maybe some as-yet-unknown entity?

Or maybe nothing at all.

In the absence of evidence, I think I'll go with the latter.


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> There is no such thing as "pre-science". Science is just our observations and theories of a world that exists with or without our knowledge regarding it.


So the hunter-gatherer days weren't pre-science? Science is much more than "observations and theories of a world that exists with or without our knowledge regarding it." Science includes experimentation, testing and re-testing in addition to the observations.



> Just because we figure out that we receive certain amounts of daylight due to the Earth revolving around the sun, it does not indicate that there could not be a God that created and/or maintains it. This may seem odd to you, but the "ancients" could have correctly recognized a higher power and incorrectly understood how the Earth works at the same time.


Yes, there is no relationship between learning about the world around us and the possibility that a god may exist. But what are the chances that the ancient peoples could accurately have imagined the "true" god(if there was one).


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## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

LostInReverie said:


> If I am right and you are wrong, you end up in hell.


I am very curious as to how you came to accept the human concept of hell. The modern day concept of hell wasn't even included in the original Biblical manuscripts. It appears you have just bought into this concept.

From the website http://www.equipministry.com/studies/mythhell.htm "The traditional concept of Hell does NOT come from the inspired Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. It is a pagan myth adopted as Christian doctrine in the third century by church fathers. Yet, then as now, innocent people are taught the traditional concept of Hell by trusted authority figures. That trust deters questions, so for hundreds of years the myth has perpetuated. The KJV and other translations have also perpetuated the myth by less than the most accurate translation of the word Hell."


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## Sloppy Joe (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes. And I practice religious rituals and duties


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## Aurora (Feb 27, 2009)

I did not vote because none of the choices seem to fit. I dont believe in god as a higher power or some spiritual being. But I have an interpretation of the meaning of 'god'. Existence, Nature, Life, the Universe = God. I believe science and evolution. But I wouldnt call myself an Atheist, because I do try to keep an open mind. I do get the feeling there is something more out there. But not anything that religion would tell me.
Someone once mentioned 'Pantheism', it fits me well. I also find Buddhism makes sense to me.


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## Toad Licker (Nov 2, 2007)

No I am not religious.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

Someone bumped a thread older than my user account....awesome.


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## Aurora (Feb 27, 2009)

oh wow totally didnt see the date of the thread. lol.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

UltraShy said:


> For the few who don't know, I'm an atheist and think religion is the ultimate lie & most widely believed myth.


51 months later and my view of religion hasn't changed.

Never before have I seen anybody dig up a thread this old. Do we have an archaeologist around here?


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## Nae (Nov 10, 2003)

UltraShy said:


> Never before have I seen anybody dig up a thread this old. Do we have an archaeologist around here?


I recently saw a thread in the spirituality section that was bumped up from '04. Crazy.


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## seanybhoy (Mar 2, 2008)

Nay


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## ShyFX (Mar 6, 2006)

Why are the votes in these old polls always screwed up? My vote should be "I am an agnostic, I am undecided about god's presence."


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

agnostic


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

Someones been busy ressurecting old polls. Ahem, anyways no i'm not religous but I am spiritual so "none of the above" to the poll.


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## Johnny Rotten (Jul 7, 2009)

Atheist of course.


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

I used to believe in god, but i doubted his existance more and more as i got older. So currently, i do not believe in any deity. 

There is also no chance that i ever will believe in any god, as i know what actually makes people believe these things, due to me actually being in these shoes... But that's for another thread, i think.


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## money (Jul 8, 2009)

I don't think that god exists.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

nah. i rather follow science than a book that reads more like a fantasy novel


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## Banzai (Jun 4, 2009)

Woah lotta atheists here...wonder why that is (not that I'm suggesting anything).


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## sacred (May 25, 2009)

no. i like the free your mind of suffering elements of buddhism but thats about it.


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## SilentLoner (Jan 30, 2006)

How did I not comment on this before?

Anyways, I'm an atheist. Was raised catholic but stopped believing around 14 or 15.

I found this recently. It sums up atheist philosophy very well IMO:


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Stopped believing in God when I was around 12-14.


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

Im spiritual. Gods presence is around us in nature. I do believe in God.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

Yes, but non-traditionally so.


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## Phibes (Mar 8, 2009)

For sure!


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## RockNRoll Dream (Jul 12, 2009)

Yes, sort of. I was raised a Roman Catholic, and I still call myself one, although there are some teachings of both the Church and the Bible that I don't personally accept. I'm also a religious pluralist - I believe that everybody finds their own path to spiritual fulfilment, whether through organised religion, personal code, or a personalised combination of multiple belief systems. I basically try my best to understand and respect everyone's beliefs, whether religious, atheist or agnostic.


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## Hellosunshine (Mar 13, 2009)

Yes I am religious but I'm pathetic at keeping up with all the duties and practices. I try at least......somewhat.


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

No, I'm not religious.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Is peanut butter a religion?


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## Hot Chocolate (Sep 29, 2008)

Nah, not religious.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

No, I am not. 

Why not?

Because there are many religions out there, and as far as I can tell, they don't amount to much more than unsupported assertions. Often, these assertions contradict assertions made by other religions (and sometimes different sects of the same religion). This is a problem, but an even bigger problem is that there isn't any method to resolve it. That is, there's no way to tell which religion is 'right'.

Plus, I guess I should add, that I haven't found any good reason to think there's a god anyway. Without that, it's kind of hard to get into organized religion, which tends to centre around the supposed attributes of this god or gods, how it is to be worshipped, and how we're to live our lives according to its wishes.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

I am spiritual; not religious.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Advisory****
Now I know people here have meant well, but this thread recently sprang up in activity?
My post on the first page was one of the first posts I ever made on this site! :stu


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

millenniumman75 said:


> ****Thread Advisory****
> Now I know people here have meant well, but this thread recently sprang up in activity?
> My post on the first page was one of the first posts I ever made on this site! :stu


Really? I didnt notice as I never check the date of the thread, unless I recognize it from back in the day.

Is there some rule now against resurrecting threads? That is news to me. And if so, why?

Why does pulling up an old thread warrant an "advisory" and where in the rules does it state that?

Not trying to be a jerk; just seriously curious, as I never knew there was anything wrong in doing that. :stu


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

zookeeper said:


> Is peanut butter a religion?


Yes, I think it is.


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## Happ2beme (Jul 13, 2009)

I don't know. What are the popular people doing?


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## caflme (Jun 7, 2009)

Yes, I am a practicing Catholic and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches.


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## RemusLupin (Jul 17, 2009)

agnostically Jewish.

Jewishly agnostic?

I go to synagogue because it's sort of a "safe" place for me - one of the few places that I feel comfortable/comforted. I don't think that what religion is based on is true. I think all religion is completely made up by humankind. God may or may not exist, I don't know. Point is, I don't really care that much. Synagogue isn't really about God for me. It's about singing the songs and saying the prayers and listening to the stories that people have been singing and praying and telling for thousands of years, and feeling connected to humanity for once.


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