# Forget SSRI's, MAOI are the Wonder Drugs!



## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

It's proven that people with long terms illnesses with Social Anxiety, Atypical Depression and OCD make a full recovery with the MAOI class of drug with no side effects.

Doctors and Psychiatrists are either completly ignorant to this class of drug, having never prescribed it or are scared because of over stated health risks due to some people take liberties with the restricted diet plan.

Forget the SRRI drugs like Prozac or the older Tricyclic used commonly if SRRI's are ineffective. MAOI's are the only drug class that can bring around a full recovery since it works on EVERY neurotransmitter in the brain, not just specific chemicals in the brain.

What does everyone else think? Do you agree that MAOI's need be first line treatment again?

Take my advice, pay to go see a Private Psychiatrist and get a drug like Parnate or Nardil prescribed for your medical needs. Drug treatment programs need not take years with needless trial and error when the most effective line of treatment is readily available for prescription under the right health professional.


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## Jcq126 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm scared of MAOIs lol. Hell SSRIs scared the **** out of me but i'm on one now and it's good for me.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

They might work, but me at least (and I'm sure a lot of other people), not being able to eat much good food (MAOI advocates claim it's easy to restrict your diet, but I eat loads of contraindicated foods), sexual side effects (not sure how bad they are compared to SSRIs, but they definitely exist from what I've read) and not being able to take most recreational substances is pretty depressing.

I would never, ever consider taking them myself unless I was forced to. I couldn't live on something that restricts my lifestyle so much. I'm gonna keep chasing that elusive Dexedrine prescription and stay as far away from so called "anti-depressants" as possible.


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## JJ153 (Jun 15, 2010)

I was on Parnate for several years. I still had SA but it did help a lot. I ate almost everything that you're not supposed to and I never had any problems. There is nothing to be afraid of IMO.


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## humility (Oct 2, 2010)

MAOI's have been around a long time. Doctor's don't like to prescribe them because of their adverse reaction with many foods.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

JJ153 said:


> I was on Parnate for several years. I still had SA but it did help a lot. I ate almost everything that you're not supposed to and I never had any problems. There is nothing to be afraid of IMO.


I hear this quite a lot, but I also hear people complaining of problems eating the tiniest amounts of restricted foods. Also, you can forget about ever doing any stimulants/MDMA/mescaline/etc on an MAOI, unless the prospect of an incredibly unpleasant death sounds appealing.

If people are happy with those restrictions and are happy to take MAOIs, more power to them.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

The only MAOI I was ever offered was Manerix, and that drug sucks. I can't take Nardil/Parnate with the drugs I'm on anyways.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

JJ153 said:


> I was on Parnate for several years. I still had SA but it did help a lot. I ate almost everything that you're not supposed to and I never had any problems. There is nothing to be afraid of IMO.


 Why did you stop? Did your SAD go into total remission or was there another raeson?


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## No Limit (Dec 6, 2005)

I've been on both Nardil and Parnate. I never followed the food restrictions, but I don't eat too bad to begin with. One of the beers I love to drink is Guinness. That is supposed to be a no-no, but nothing happened. I just didn't like the insomnia side effect I got while I was on them.

Never ever try to take Codeine while on this though. I had to drink the syrup since I was sick. I never want to experience a hypertensive episode again.


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## extend (May 11, 2009)

No Limit said:


> I've been on both Nardil and Parnate. I never followed the food restrictions, but I don't eat too bad to begin with. One of the beers I love to drink is Guinness. That is supposed to be a no-no, but nothing happened. I just didn't like the insomnia side effect I got while I was on them.
> 
> Never ever try to take Codeine while on this though. I had to drink the syrup since I was sick. I never want to experience a hypertensive episode again.


Even though you stopped taking them, did they help you for SA?


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

I disagree with OP. SSRI's only worsen things for many people, but same can be said for MAOI's. Plus the latter have more serious adverse effects in general, given you don't follow the directions carefully.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

I'm probably going to try a MAOI in a month or two. I've tried a lot of other different meds, and haven't found one that works well. Only Adderall,what I'm currently taking, and Klonopin have helped me somewhat. Since I can't take Adderall with a MAOI, I'm concerned that I'll be too tired/sleepy during the day. Also, MAOIs make some people gain weight. :/


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks for all your posts guys. Good luck redtogo72, you're making the right choice.

Just elaborate a bit more on my OP, I live in the UK and paid £200 to go see a Private Psychiatrist in London. He, along with my GP, agreed the MAOI's were the most effective class of drugs for anxiety, ocd and atypical depression related illnesses. The Pyschiatrist has given my doctor full clearance to try any MAOI I wish to try.

We are trying Moclobemide for 6 weeks and then if that is unsuccessful, next on the list is Tranylcypromine aka Parnate.

I realise a lot of you live in the United States where access to these types of drugs are limited and you have to pay for all your prescriptions. Over in the UK, we get all our drugs free on the NHS.

Regardless of where you live, if there is a drug you want to try and no one wants to give it to you, pay to go and see a top Pyschiatrist. They will listen and give you their proper expertise. Come over to London if you have the money


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Moclobemide is garbage, go for parnate or nardil!!!


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks for the advice crayzyMed! I have every intention to take Parnate but will give Moclobemide a chance just to please the Doctor and Psychiatrist. It's a relationship based around trust and I want to prove I am responsible enough to handle Parnate since it's next on our list.


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## JJ153 (Jun 15, 2010)

metamorphosis said:


> Why did you stop? Did your SAD go into total remission or was there another raeson?


I was taking Parnate and also Zeldox. I stopped because while it helped me face more social situations, I still had social anxiety and everything in life sort of became dullsville. I really didn't enjoy anything anymore-just going through the motions. I will consider asking my doctor to switch me back or over to Nardil if my Cipralex doesn't kick in soon.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

JJ153 said:


> I was taking Parnate and also Zeldox. I stopped because while it helped me face more social situations, I still had social anxiety and everything in life sort of became dullsville. I really didn't enjoy anything anymore-just going through the motions. I will consider asking my doctor to switch me back or over to Nardil if my Cipralex doesn't kick in soon.


I would blame this more on Zeldox, anti-psychotics are evil.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

Pure MAOI's are probably only useful as an augmentation strategy. Luckily, both Nardil and Parnate are not pure MAOI's and have more useful effects.


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## gordonjohnson008 (Nov 2, 2008)

Area88 said:


> It's proven that people with long terms illnesses with Social Anxiety, Atypical Depression and OCD make a full recovery with the MAOI class of drug with *no side effects*.
> 
> MAOI's are *the only drug class that can bring around a full recovery* since it works on EVERY neurotransmitter in the brain, not just specific chemicals in the brain.


Hey Area88, I'm with you that MAOIs are perhaps the most powerful potential treatment for SA (and depression). However, the portions I've boldened above I disagree with. Other drugs can bring about recovery just as well. I personally had amazing success on Klonopin+Paxil, and had really good success on Paxil alone. YMMV.

In addition, be aware that MAOIs generally have the worse side effect profile of any meds commonly used against SA. I've taken SSRIs, benzos, MAOIs including Parnate & Nardil, etc. Side effects from MAOIs were INTENSE. Yes, many of these diminish over time for most people. But, you're going to feel it for awhile. Some don't go away, at least not entirely.

MAOIs may be more sustainable than other classes of medication. You don't hear too many stories of MAOI poop-out (except for when Nardil was reformulated), but then again not too many people take MAOIs in the first place. Personally, I'm very curious about mild MAOIs including naturally occuring MAOIs and whether these can be taken sustainably long-term to provide a neurotransmitter boost. Rhodiola Rosea, I'm looking at you. I just started Rhodiola and it's all that I'm on right now, so we'll see...


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## humility (Oct 2, 2010)

Again, look at my original post and do your own research. MAOI's are great if you're willing to surrender your dietary habits.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

humility said:


> Again, look at my original post and do your own research. MAOI's are great if you're willing to surrender your dietary habits.


Ya, I'm on 60mg of Nardil and feeling pretty good. I'm going to ask my pdoc on Thursday about maybe trying 75mg to see if it makes a difference. I don't even totally follow the dietary restrictions, and I've never had a problem. I've had some cheese, yogurt, alcohol, and beer. I don't think I'll try Chianti because it specifically says not that wine. I love blue cheese, but I haven't tried it because it's really aged, and I'm afraid it may be a problem. Oh well, I can live without that one drink and one cheese. As far as aged meats, I've never really eaten much of those to begin with, so they're naturally not in my diet.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

I do believe MAOI drugs are safer than ssri's and such. They have more side effects though and restrictions. I was going to try nardil after 5 other med failure attempts. But then I tried zoloft and its working for me well.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

wjc75225 said:


> Ya, I'm on 60mg of Nardil and feeling pretty good. I'm going to ask my pdoc on Thursday about maybe trying 75mg to see if it makes a difference. I don't even totally follow the dietary restrictions, and I've never had a problem. I've had some cheese, yogurt, alcohol, and beer. I don't think I'll try Chianti because it specifically says not that wine. I love blue cheese, but I haven't tried it because it's really aged, and I'm afraid it may be a problem. Oh well, I can live without that one drink and one cheese. As far as aged meats, I've never really eaten much of those to begin with, so they're naturally not in my diet.


How well do you feel the nardil is working for you? and what side effects have you got so far?


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

crayzyMed said:


> Moclobemide is garbage, go for parnate or nardil!!!


ditto


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## Rbk (Aug 5, 2010)

Moclobemide was working on me(I'm the only one?), so... I can only imagine how nardil can work <dreaming> ;D


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

Canadian4Life said:


> How well do you feel the nardil is working for you? and what side effects have you got so far?


It's working really well! I'm a lot more talkative/open with people, and it has decreased my anxiety significantly. I think anxiety will always be there, but it's a lot lower. Depression has not been much of a problem for me recently, so I can't comment if it's helped that or not. Side effects have included some afternoon tiredness (sometimes take a short nap, but that's not every day). I wrote this in another thread, but it seems that when I stay active, like going to workout, I don't have the tiredness nearly as much. Other side-effects have been insomnia (which I was given Ambien CR for, and it's worked), less sex-drive, harder to orgasm, and an increased appetite/some weight gain. I'm not too worried about the weight gain, though, because I do lift weights, and I'm naturally skinny to begin with. It hasn't made me crave junk food or anything, so I still eat healthily. I just eat more food. That's my experience. I haven't had any dizziness from hypotension or any hypertension from food reactions (I've eaten a few things on the do-no-eat list). The benefits outweigh the side-effects for me, so I will definitely continue to take it!


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

Area88 said:


> It's proven that people with long terms illnesses with Social Anxiety, Atypical Depression and OCD make a full recovery with the MAOI class of drug with no side effects.
> 
> Doctors and Psychiatrists are either completly ignorant to this class of drug, having never prescribed it or are scared because of over stated health risks due to some people take liberties with the restricted diet plan.
> 
> ...


I take Parnate and if not for the vast and powerful side effects I too would call it a wonder drug. Unfortunatly the massive side effects take much away from it's luster.

I'm not talking about the food restrictions because that no big deal. I'm talking about the devistating side effects they bring on most users. But yes, Parnate works well if you can tolerate the drug.


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## BearFan (Mar 22, 2008)

I liked moclobermide the first couple of days, but then that effect disappeared and I just felt anxious (although only tried it 2 weeks). Let us know if changes for 6 weeks. Most Doctors I've talked to don't even much experience with the older irreversible MAOIs anymore. They like Emsam, though. It's suppose to be less efficacious, but the safety and side effects are suppose to be much better. Although the nice thing about SSRIs is the safety. I tried a few illegal substances on them and didn't cause any adverse effects. This would be a definite no-no on any kind of MAOI. There are some fatal case studies on Moclobermide and Xtacy on pubmed.


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

BearFan said:


> I liked moclobermide the first couple of days, but then that effect disappeared and I just felt anxious (although only tried it 2 weeks). Let us know if changes for 6 weeks. Most Doctors I've talked to don't even much experience with the older irreversible MAOIs anymore. They like Emsam, though. It's suppose to be less efficacious, but the safety and side effects are suppose to be much better. Although the nice thing about SSRIs is the safety. I tried a few illegal substances on them and didn't cause any adverse effects. This would be a definite no-no on any kind of MAOI. There are some fatal case studies on Moclobermide and Xtacy on pubmed.


Yea I would think Parnate and Xtacy would be a real bad idea. You can smoke a little MJ on Parnate with no problem. Other illicit drugs I wouldn't trust on Parnate or Nardil.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Yeah XTC on a MAOI will definatly kill you, one of the biggest reasons i avoid MAOI's


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

I did some researching and MAOI's do seem alot easier on the body minus the restrictions. They may or may not have more side effects than ssri's..but it depends on the person. Was going to try nardil after 4 ssri and effexor failures but gave ssris another shot with zoloft. It has worked great for me so far (3 weeks in)..strange it doesnt feel like i'm on any med but my anxiety is way down. But an MAOI wouldv'e been my next option they seem very effective..nardil in particular. I have adhd as well and would have had to come off my ritalin to go on nardil..so i'm glad the zoloft worked out.


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

Wonder drug is something which relieve you from SA without side effects (Like correcting the chemical imbalance in our brains what is the cause of SA). I don't think MAOIs fit in that category. 

Don't expect wonder drugs soon. The pharmaceutical industry is an billion dollar industry and they rather don't give us the drugs we need. In the past there were very effective meds but we are not allowed to use them.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

Freesix88 said:


> Wonder drug is something which relieve you from SA without side effects (Like correcting the chemical imbalance in our brains what is the cause of SA). I don't think MAOIs fit in that category.
> 
> Don't expect wonder drugs soon. The pharmaceutical industry is an billion dollar industry and they rather don't give us the drugs we need. In the past there were very effective meds but we are not allowed to use them.


Yeah. MAOI's can work great for some people (like me), but it's not a "wonder drug".


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Sigh, if only there wasnt this drug abuse phobia... weve had drugs that came close to wonder drugs 50 years ago, but sadly they wont go into clinical use again...


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## Area88 (Oct 4, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Sigh, if only there wasnt this drug abuse phobia... weve had drugs that came close to wonder drugs 50 years ago, but sadly they wont go into clinical use again...


 Seriously? Which are you referring to?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Area88 said:


> Seriously? Which are you referring to?


AMT for example, its a dopamine and serotonine releasing agent, its MORE effective then MAOI's without any of the side effects, it was used for 20 years in the sovjet union but ultimately banned because of the abuse potential.

I take 7,5mg a day, it can be bought in the RC form but i advice against it if you dont know what your doing.

AMT blows amphetamine away in my experience.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Me and karyoldi here are taking AMT
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...8mg-amt-1-6g-piracetam-150mg-picamilon-96590/


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm thinking to make a thread about it, just for those that have no more options and its either that or a miserable depression, dont recommend it for everyone tough.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> I'm thinking to make a thread about it, just for those that have no more options and its either that or a miserable depression, dont recommend it for everyone tough.


Not that I'd take AMT necessarily, but it's just for depression? Or it's great for SA, too? Depression isn't really my problem. I'm not depressed that I have SA. I just want to get rid of the SA. Nardil has helped a lot! But if the SA was TOTALLY gone, that'd be even better!  .. Like I've recently done things that I wouldn't have done without the Nardil .. I've been a lot less anxious! However, the anxiety is still there in one form or another.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

wjc75225 said:


> Not that I'd take AMT necessarily, but it's just for depression? Or it's great for SA, too? Depression isn't really my problem. I'm not depressed that I have SA. I just want to get rid of the SA. Nardil has helped a lot! But if the SA was TOTALLY gone, that'd be even better!  .. Like I've recently done things that I wouldn't have done without the Nardil .. I've been a lot less anxious! However, the anxiety is still there in one form or another.


Works incredibly well for ADHD, depression, anhedonia, social anxiety, OCD and a ton of other stuff.

AMT helps my SA a ton, but its still there for a part, adding in amphetamine totally abolishes my SA tough, 100% fixed!


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

I would imagine with AMT you would have to worry about rapid tolerance build up wouldn't you? Is it an illigal drug?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

hensley258 said:


> I would imagine with AMT you would have to worry about rapid tolerance build up wouldn't you? Is it an illigal drug?


Nope, no tolerance problem.

Yes its illegal in the US.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Nope, no tolerance problem.
> 
> Yes its illegal in the US.


Yeah, I'm kind of against illegal stuff. Haha .. My damn morals! The most illegal thing I've done is street race lmao. Anyways, that's awesome that you've found something good for you! I have SA and only some OCD, now (I used to have really bad OCD when I was younger, but I've gotten over most of it!). And as far as amphetamines, my doctor was unwilling to prescribe even a low dose of any type while on Nardil. Oh well, at least I found a pdoc that was willing to prescribe a MAOI in the first place.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

wjc75225 said:


> Yeah, I'm kind of against illegal stuff. Haha .. My damn morals! The most illegal thing I've done is street race lmao. Anyways, that's awesome that you've found something good for you! I have SA and only some OCD, now (I used to have really bad OCD when I was younger, but I've gotten over most of it!). And as far as amphetamines, my doctor was unwilling to prescribe even a low dose of any type while on Nardil. Oh well, at least I found a pdoc that was willing to prescribe a MAOI in the first place.


Illegal stuff FTW! Haha


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Nope, no tolerance problem.
> 
> Yes its illegal in the US.


So to obtain it in the US would be far more difficult than in Europe?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

hensley258 said:


> So to obtain it in the US would be far more difficult than in Europe?


Nope, just as easy, just a small risk customs seize it but thats extremely small as they send it in a small white enveloppe.


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Nope, just as easy, just a small risk customs seize it but thats extremely small as they send it in a small white enveloppe.


How did you end up an English speaking person in Belgum? Are you from the States? My favorite beer is imported from Belgum. It's called Duvel and I swear it is the best Ale you will ever drink. It comes in 4 packs here, but only a few places carry it.

8.5% by volumn unlike the watery garbage American beers. Just 4 Duvels will mess you up pretty good. The carbonation it has is almost that of a good champaign. It's best poured in a tall glass very slow and tilted. The head is light, but very abundant.

Very expensive here. $16 dollars a 4 pack.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Everyone here speaks english mate, its the language of the internet. Haha our beers are great, duvel is very popular.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

hensley258 said:


> How did you end up an English speaking person in Belgum? Are you from the States? My favorite beer is imported from Belgum. It's called Duvel and I swear it is the best Ale you will ever drink. It comes in 4 packs here, but only a few places carry it.
> 
> 8.5% by volumn unlike the watery garbage American beers. Just 4 Duvels will mess you up pretty good. The carbonation it has is almost that of a good champaign. It's best poured in a tall glass very slow and tilted. The head is light, but very abundant.
> 
> Very expensive here. $16 dollars a 4 pack.


I've never tried that one! 8.5% is decent. There's this Irish pub here with an extensive beer/ale/lager list. Some of their beers are 20-30%!


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

Oh, and I'm not like a heavy drinker or anything .. A couple of guys introduced me to the Irish Car Bomb .. what a good drink!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I never really liked alcohol, tastes like **** for me, and dislike the alcohol high lol.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> I never really liked alcohol, tastes like **** for me, and dislike the alcohol high lol.


Oh, I guess us Americans always thought Europeans loved alcohol haha.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

wjc75225 said:


> Oh, I guess us Americans always thought Europeans loved alcohol haha.


Its true tough, especially belgians love beer, but im just the odd one out haha


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> I never really liked alcohol, tastes like **** for me, and dislike the alcohol high lol.


A Belgen that doesn't like beer? That is unusual.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Its true tough, especially belgians love beer, but im just the odd one out haha


Haha, I see!

Just like I've only been to Europe once (Mediterranean cruise around Italy), and they're surprised that not all Americans are fat! .


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

MAOI sounds like a noise a cat would make. I'd go for those ones.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

hensley258 said:


> A Belgen that doesn't like beer? That is unusual.


I do love "french fries" tough, we are the one's that invented it, so its stupid they call it "french" fries haha, everyone here loves fries.

Yeah true its unusual.

Most important, in belguim we have legal hookers lol!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

wjc75225 said:


> Haha, I see!
> 
> Just like I've only been to Europe once (Mediterranean cruise around Italy), and they're surprised that not all Americans are fat! .


lol, yeah americans are known as fat ppl here.


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

wjc75225 said:


> Haha, I see!
> 
> Just like I've only been to Europe once (Mediterranean cruise around Italy), and they're surprised that not all Americans are fat! .


They aren't far off in thinking were all fat. Depends on what part of the states your in. Here in the south where I live I am nearly the only man under 170 Lbs, but when I lived in the northeast most people were thin and fit.

If you like big Women just come down south where I now live. You will have a feild day.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

kiirby said:


> MAOI sounds like a noise a cat would make. I'd go for those ones.


hahaha yeah!


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> I do love "french fries" tough, we are the one's that invented it, so its stupid they call it "french" fries haha, everyone here loves fries.
> 
> Yeah true its unusual.
> 
> Most important, in belguim we have legal hookers lol!


Lol.. We have legal hookers in Nevada! That's the only place I think ... Do you use the hookers? Haha


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

wjc75225 said:


> Lol.. We have legal hookers in Nevada! That's the only place I think ... Do you use the hookers? Haha


Yup, taking illegal drugs and then getting a hooker, some serieus fun!

Haha, thats just how i am, dont see anything bad with it


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

hensley258 said:


> They aren't far off in thinking were all fat. Depends on what part of the states your in. Here in the south where I live I am nearly the only man under 170 Lbs, but when I lived in the northeast most people were thin and fit.
> 
> If you like big Women just come down south where I now live. You will have a feild day.


Hey, I live in TX, so I know what you mean! There are a lot of fatties here. I'm 5'11 and only 152 lbs, and that's after gaining some weight, so I'm the skinny one! I've been hitting the weights recently! Haha. What part of the south do you live in?
I like some "curvy" girls, but not the fat ones. I also like petite girls, too. It just depends on the proportions to me.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Yup, taking illegal drugs and then getting a hooker, some serieus fun!
> 
> Haha, thats just how i am, dont see anything bad with it


Lol. Nothing wrong with that. I don't judge haha. However, I don't know if I'd ever use a hooker. I like having that strong connection with a girl first. That's just the way I am lol .


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

wjc75225 said:


> Lol. Nothing wrong with that. I don't judge haha. However, I don't know if I'd ever use a hooker. I like having that strong connection with a girl first. That's just the way I am lol .


Yeah i can understand, for me its fun all i go for lol.


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