# Dear Ladies...



## trucks (Apr 6, 2012)

Do ANY of you value a guy who is genuinely nice, and just good in general? People say I'm nice all the time, and all that good stuff. I'm one of those guys that holds open the door for strangers. I don't do it because I want to get noticed, I do it because it's the right thing to do. I'm a great friend to people, even if they don't always return the favor. 

Lately though, I've started to realize that anytime I start getting close to a girl, she will ALWAYS say that I am "too nice". What does this mean? Can one of you put this into language a guy can understand? I just completely do not understand it... Girls always come to me, complaining about how their boyfriend mistreated them and on and on, and I just want to say "LOOK UP, HERE I AM!" I'm not like a doormat either, I stand up for what I believe, and I don't take crap.

And I know, I have to be patient. I'm being very patient. I'm just like confused or frustrated or something. Can any of you lovely ladies on this forum point me in the right direction?

EDIT: And I don't want to seem like I'm tooting my own horn, because I am not that way at all. All of the stuff about me being nice and all that is just going off what I've been told. I'm a humble guy. Probably too humble.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Nice + boring is not attractive. Girls do want a good guy, but they also want a level of excitement to go along with it. The 'bad boys' can offer that, so they appear to be more successful, but a nice guy who can give off that attractive vibe is really on a whole nother level.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

trucks said:


> But I don't really think I'm boring. I do stuff. Lots of stuff. And no, that stuff isn't video games... I don't have those. I am more of an outdoors person


Do you ever ask girls out?


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

trucks said:


> So far just one in college. Maybe I just need to do it more often and put myself out there?


There's your answer.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

trucks said:


> So far just one in college. Maybe I just need to do it more often and put myself out there?


Just don't forget about making it not look like you're overdoing it. I know you know this already, but the girls you ask might talk to each other at random times and they might start assuming.

People like to assume a lot of things.


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## jrocket (Apr 19, 2011)

I do not understand these girls that say you are too nice. I would love to find a nice guy but all I keep finding are jerks.


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## asc (Nov 8, 2011)

I like nice guys, but personally I need to be attracted to them as well in a physical way. 
I think there is more to overall attraction than just being nice or even nice looking.
If a guy were good looking and not nice, forget it, I wouldnt be interested.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

little toaster said:


> Just don't forget about making it not look like you're overdoing it. I know you know this already, but the girls you ask might talk to each other at random times and they might start assuming.
> 
> People like to assume a lot of things.


Assuming that he likes women? Sounds like a good thing!


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## Invisiblehandicap (Jul 31, 2011)

trucks said:


> Do ANY of you value a guy who is genuinely nice, and just good in general? People say I'm nice all the time, and all that good stuff. I'm one of those guys that holds open the door for strangers. I don't do it because I want to get noticed, I do it because it's the right thing to do. I'm a great friend to people, even if they don't always return the favor.
> 
> Lately though, I've started to realize that anytime I start getting close to a girl, she will ALWAYS say that I am "too nice". What does this mean? Can one of you put this into language a guy can understand? I just completely do not understand it... Girls always come to me, complaining about how their boyfriend mistreated them and on and on, and I just want to say "LOOK UP, HERE I AM!" I'm not like a doormat either, I stand up for what I believe, and I don't take crap.
> 
> ...


If she has a bf its automatic game over. If shes complaining about bf , she doesnt have good girl friends to discuss this stuff with. She doesnt hate him, shes just upset. Even if hes a really horrible guy, its her fault for not leaving him if she is perfectly able to.

You're their friend. Its not their fault you have secretly decided you want to date them. You know they are taken, so why should they have to even tell you they are not interested? it should be obvious. bf = rejection. Taken = no go.

No girl will leave their bf for you. You can only be friends with a girl who is taken. If you dont want to be friends with women, be honest about it. If you act like a friend, you get treated like one and yes its very fair.

Advice: dont go for girls that are taken or in love with someone else, etc.

You are too nice means "I wish my bf did this for me" or " your a great friend" or " I dont know what to say but I dont like you in that way so im just going to say your a nice guy but etc because then I wont have to risk insulting you. It doesnt mean "you're too good for me".


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

trucks said:


> I'm a humble guy. Probably too humble.


pls go


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

trucks said:


> Do ANY of you value a guy who is genuinely nice, and just good in general? People say I'm nice all the time, and all that good stuff. I'm one of those guys that holds open the door for strangers. I don't do it because I want to get noticed, I do it because it's the right thing to do. I'm a great friend to people, even if they don't always return the favor.
> 
> Lately though, I've started to realize that anytime I start getting close to a girl, she will ALWAYS say that I am "too nice". What does this mean? Can one of you put this into language a guy can understand? I just completely do not understand it... Girls always come to me, complaining about how their boyfriend mistreated them and on and on, and I just want to say "LOOK UP, HERE I AM!" I'm not like a doormat either, I stand up for what I believe, and I don't take crap.
> 
> ...


"you are too nice" = you are not sexual enough with her; you are like a girlfriend to her; you are not making any moves

Girls like nice guys, but they want a guy to be a guy and make moves. Opening doors for people and treating people well has NOTHING to do with "making moves" on a girl. You should learn how to get numbers, go on dates, kiss, be intimate, etc. with a girl and your problems will be solved.

You can be a nice cool guy but just start making moves basically. You are not talking to a girl just to be friends if you want a girlfriend. Girlfriends are for more than friends; they are people you have physical intimacy with and they usually expect you as a man to initiate most of it. If you don't then you will likely remain in the friend zone. If you just want platonic friendships with girls then that is fine, but if you want a girlfriend then stop be platonic with her and make moves. Girlfriends are friends who you are sexually intimate with.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

trucks said:


> Yeah I get that. I was just wondering if girls would even be interested in a guy like me.


Yes, definitely. Once your confidence rises after a certain amount of dating experiences then you will recognize you are worthy. You are already worthy but you need experiences to tell you that, and you get experiences by making moves and dating girls. Go and make moves on girls. Doing nothing will keep you locked in your current position, which is no girlfriend.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

it's because mice guys penis last



trucks said:


> I'm one of those guys that holds open the door for strangers.


NEVER do that.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

^^lol. not exactly, but that was funny anyways hahahaha


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

This reminds me of Tosh.0 when Daniel Tosh said that nice guys are ugly, so most of the attractive girls don't know they exist.

Maybe we should all just get cosmetic surgery and our lives will improve


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

The reason why nice guys finish last is that most women don't know what's best for them.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

WintersTale said:


> The reason why nice guys finish last is that most women don't know what's best for them.


Being a nice person has nothing to do with having a girlfriend or not. Being a coward does because a coward does not make make moves and does not try to meet girls; they hardly even put themselves in a position to meet girls in the first place! They avoid meeting girls basically. This has nothing to do with being "nice". Girls are highly attracted to nice people. This is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Being a needy coward is not attractive to women or people in general, and that's the misconception about being a nice person versus a "nice guy". That conception of being nice = a loser should be eliminated from our social realities.

Btw, I am not calling anyone here cowards. I am trying to prove a point. Most people here just need some guidance and support to make it happen, which is cool.

Also, I have to admit, you need to be sexual and learn how to flirt with women. You can be nice and treat people well but you should learn how to tease and flirt with women and you can't really do that by talking about how her grandma is doing. In other words, you can be nice but you need to also be sexual with women you want to be intimate with. Flirting is done when you express your sexual interest to a woman, which means you don't talk about dear old grandma.

Being nice to a woman you are sexually attracted to means treating her with respect, being honest with her, etc. If you are honest with yourself then you would tell a girl you wanted to have sex with that you are attracted to her and if you accept that as normal then you will naturally act in a way that expresses sexual intent which is what people who are sexually attracted to each other do. Not expressing your sexual intent to a woman you are sexually attracted to is NOT being honest with her.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

bwidger85 said:


> Being a nice person has nothing to do with having a girlfriend or not. Being a coward does because a coward does not make make moves and does not try to meet girls; they hardly even put themselves in a position to meet girls in the first place! They avoid meeting girls basically. This has nothing to do with being "nice". Girls are highly attracted to nice people. This is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Being a needy coward is not attractive to women or people in general, and that's the misconception about being a nice person versus a "nice guy". That conception of being nice = a loser should be eliminated from our social realities.
> 
> Btw, I am not calling anyone here cowards. I am trying to prove a point. Most people here just need some guidance and support to make it happen, which is cool.
> 
> Also, I have to admit, you need to be sexual and learn how to flirt with women. You can be nice and treat people well but you should learn how to tease and flirt with women and you can't really do that by talking about how her grandma is doing. In other words, you can be nice but you need to also be sexual with women you want to be intimate with. Flirting is done when you express your sexual interest to a woman, which means you don't talk about dear old grandma.


1)
But people don't want to start engaging in risky behavior just to prove that they're not cowards. Do we really need to put ourselves in danger just to prove that we're not too afraid?

People just assume that some are "too nice" without knowing them very well. That's just not fair, but do we really have to let other know stuff about us quickly?

I'm not gonna start being tough and violent all the time just because people think I should prove that I'm not "too nice" or a coward. Thinking of consequences before doing something doesn't make someone a coward.

2)
Where's the guidance and support? I feel like we rarely see that here and never get the help we need.

3)
There's that whole line of socially unacceptable and possibly breaking the law. There's also the line of being rude and having them think you're a jerk if you can't read their minds and stop at a certain point.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

There are many reasons why I decided not to date a guy but being nice was not one of them.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

little toaster said:


> 1)
> But people don't want to start engaging in risky behavior just to prove that they're not cowards. Do we really need to put ourselves in danger just to prove that we're not too afraid?
> 
> People just assume that some are "too nice" without knowing them very well. That's just not fair, but do we really have to let other know stuff about us quickly?
> ...


Hence practicing until you can find that line. Why do guys think they should just be born good at talking to women? It takes practice, like anything else. And who is talking about being violent?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

little toaster said:


> 1)
> But people don't want to start engaging in risky behavior just to prove that they're not cowards. Do we really need to put ourselves in danger just to prove that we're not too afraid?
> 
> People just assume that some are "too nice" without knowing them very well. That's just not fair, but do we really have to let other know stuff about us quickly?
> ...


Flirting with women is not risky behavior. I don't mean groping a woman or anything to show you are sexually attracted to her when you first meet her. You can flirt by just expressing you find her to be pretty and you'd like to hang out with her sometime, as one example. Obviously, you take into consideration social rules and not to sexually assault women, but verbally flirting is harmless.

Support is all over the place. You just aren't looking in the right places.

Flirting with women in a respectable way is not rude behavior. It should be flattering if anything. What is rude is when you keep flirting when she obviously is showing signs she doesn't want to be flirted with.


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## KelsKels (Oct 4, 2011)

Well, the simple fact of nature is that all women love being treated like total crap. We all love being beaten too. Its true. Start treating women terribly, and youll get what you want. Just call us all ****s or b*tches and play the field. Youll have all the right girls coming to you


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

bwidger85 said:


> Flirting with women in a respectable way is not rude behavior. It should be flattering if anything. What is rude is when you keep flirting when she obviously is showing signs she doesn't want to be flirted with.


Too bad it only works if she's attracted to you.

In other words, if you're not attractive, forget flirting because it will just be creepy.


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## NoIce (Sep 10, 2011)

KelsKels said:


> Well, the simple fact of nature is that all women love being treated like total crap. We all love being beaten too. Its true. Start treating women terribly, and youll get what you want. Just call us all ****s or b*tches and play the field. Youll have all the right girls coming to you


Spoken like a true left.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

little toaster said:


> Too bad it only works if she's attracted to you.
> 
> In other words, if you're not attractive, forget flirting because it will just be creepy.


Eh, if she thinks it's creepy then so be it. Just don't verbally assault her is all and it's not a big deal.

It's tricky, I admit. There are certain occasions where you need to not be so aggressive and upfront; some work better or worse, etc. A lot of women don't want to be flirted with in some instances...I don't really want to get into that again though... i have my own thoughts on the matter that i don't think some would really agree with

i don't want to delve too much into this because then it comes down to personal likes and dislikes for people and i can't speak for others


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## Invisiblehandicap (Jul 31, 2011)

trucks said:


> I wasn't talking about girls who are in relationships... I don't go for them, I know that's just stupid. Idk I just always hear my friends talking about it and it's like you know, there's lots of other, better guys out there. And I guess I have just observed so many girls who have gone after douches, dated them, and then gotten hurt. I just finally got to the point where I'm thinking like what the heck, you ladies should see a pattern here.


Notice how they never mention their own flaws and bad behaviors in the relationship. I find it hard to believe that so many guys are absolute jerks and so many girls are innocent angels. Have you ever seen the show tough love Miami season 4. Lol.

One cheated on husband and blamed him entirely because she said , omg no passion in relationship fix it!!!

One was obsessed with marriage and was extremely fickle with men.

one had huge anger problems, lied about having bf while dating another guy for the show.

one really enjoyed having a bf that treated others very badly and seeing him hurt others.

all pretending to be angels. fooled me when watching.. They all blamed men, yet it was them with the problems.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

^^girls are people. guys are people. i think it's the social pressure that changes things. if that social pressure wasn't there more women wouldn't be afraid of being judged. everyone is different though


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm starting to wish I could put nice guys threads on ignore. Sometimes (like this one) they're not even that obvious.


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## Cam1 (Dec 4, 2011)

trucks said:


> So far just one in college. Maybe I just need to do it more often and put myself out there?


Well this is your problem. Being nice will make girls like you, but it won't make them come running for you. You need to show more initiative and ask them out. If you're as friendly as you suggest, I'm sure girls would at least be interested in going on a date with you.


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## dingdong (Jan 6, 2013)

rednosereindeer said:


> I'm starting to wish I could put nice guys threads on ignore. Sometimes (like this one) they're not even that obvious.


This.
Also-
Every guy I've ever dated/been attracted to has been super nice. Only one of them ever described himself as "a nice guy" and I ended up breaking up with him because he didn't understand that being nice didn't mean you don't ever disagree with someone. Kindness is much more important than niceness.

I'm nice, but that isn't my best quality, or the best way to describe who I am. I don't even think it's in the top ten.

Cracked.com has a couple articles about "nice guys" and I think they're pretty accurate and informative. I highly recommend this article: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm a pretty nice and kind person who also is fairly confident, often to the point of perceivable arrogance in some ways (at least for some).

I really have no problem getting ladies interested in me. They often come around asking me on dates after being around me or hearing me talk a bit.

Really, there's a lot of different facets against all of it. Put me up against an arrogant, confident mean guy any day of the week. I'll beat him with my eyes closed. Because I have a better hand than he does in this game of life. Because my personality is charming, compassionate, AND confident.

It's not all about being confident, nor compassionate, nor charming. It's exactly your strength of character, belief in yourself, and own willingness to take charge. Become someone worth having and you'll have girls lining up left and right to get a piece of you.


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## MiMiK (Aug 25, 2011)

when a girl tell you, "you are too nice" it means you dont challenge her enough. i really believe it has nothing to do with being nice


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## dingdong (Jan 6, 2013)

MiMiK said:


> when a girl tell you, "you are too nice" it means you dont challenge her enough. i really believe it has nothing to do with being nice


I agree with you. I think it is less about being nice and more about coming off as passive.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Sacrieur said:


> I'm a pretty nice and kind person who also is fairly confident, often to the point of perceivable arrogance in some ways (at least for some).
> 
> I really have no problem getting ladies interested in me. They often come around asking me on dates after being around me or hearing me talk a bit.
> 
> ...


great post :clap

i think most people who are "mean" are a lot of the time like that because they have festering insecurities, and people can sense that and that's not attractive. meanwhile, a confident and nice person who respects himself is far, far, far more appealing because he typically knows himself and has transcended a lot of negative fallacies and people can sense that and that comes off as strong and centered, which is attractive. it is extremely powerful to know who you are and transcend unnecessary negative perceptions. people who have got there are typically strong and positive people


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

trucks said:


> So far just one in college. Maybe I just need to do it more often and put myself out there?


Okay this is your problem. Do you expect people to come throw themselves at you?


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

dingdong said:


> This.
> Also-
> Every guy I've ever dated/been attracted to has been super nice. Only one of them ever described himself as "a nice guy" and I ended up breaking up with him because he didn't understand that being nice didn't mean you don't ever disagree with someone. Kindness is much more important than niceness.
> 
> ...


Dope. Thanks


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## pineapplebun (Oct 25, 2011)

I love a nice guy, a sweetheart, and of course, I look to see how he treats other people in general as a cue as to what kind of person he is. If he's just nice to me, but is cruel at work or with strangers or anyone else, I know that is not a good person. I don't really feel that there is such a thing as too nice TBH and I'm a girl so I don't agree with those girls. And I like that you do those nice things because it's the right thing to do, not because you actually want or expect anything back.

However, the thing is, as a girl, I want to know if I am somehow special to a guy, like if he's extra attentive, extra nice, or goes out of his way for me, but not to everyone else. Because if he is that way to everyone, then how do I know he likes me, let alone, that I somehow mean something more to him than anyone else? I feel like this is how most nice guys lose out. It's not about being nice that makes you lose the girl, but she is looking for signs of interest. If you treat everyone the same, how is she different? And I'm not even talking about treating her like a princess or spoiling her crazily, but who doesn't like to be treated special? If the typical nice guy lacks the confidence and self-esteem to ask a girl out, he has to find a way to show signs, not send her mixed signals. If he is super friendly to several girls or even another, I will assume I am just an option, and sorry, I'm not an option. I know guys say you should have multiple girls to somehow downplay the pain of rejection but a guy who has multiple girls as choices is a guy I will automatically say no to. In some way, I find their affections cheap and playing the field is kind of desperate in it's own way, just my personal opinion. 

Either develop the courage to ask the girl out or at least show obvious signs that you're interested in her. It's hard to tell with some people as they're naturally friendly/flirtacious, so you have to somehow go an extra mile for her so perhaps she'll have the cojones to ask you out. That's the way I see it anyways.


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## vanishingpt (Mar 9, 2012)

As a female, yeah I do like nice guys. I'd prefer a humble guy over an obnoxious, arrogant person any day. As a person, I would say the same thing LOL. I guess some people just aren't attracted to that, they want something more exciting.

But I think it's important also to have traits other than being nice. What else makes you an interesting person? Though generosity and kindness are important traits, I find myself attracted to other things such as intelligence, motivation, confidence, quirkiness, etc. if being nice is the only thing that defines you, oddly enough that could be offputting.

That's not to say go out and be a jerk! There'll be ladies who appreciate your kindness  and they'll be the ones that are worth it.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, arrogant guys are the worst. Seems to be especially common among American guys. yuck yuck.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

Being arrogant comes with being confident, being able to "speak up," and being able to "sell yourself." Also being able to stand out from the crowd and set yourself apart from others.

Showing off gets everyone's attention, so people brag all the time.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

trucks said:


> Not at all... Though that's sort of how it was for me in high school. Maybe I was just lucky, and college really is a whole different ball game. That's what I'm thinking.


Girls threw themselves at you in high school? So you're problem is that you're spoiled? Sigh...


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## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> The reason why nice guys finish last is that most women don't know what's best for them.


And obviously you know what's good for us foolish women?


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## Bawsome (Jan 8, 2013)

Its not really about being nice, its more about being predictable. Cos if your going around just doing the nicest thing you can think of it gets a bit boring, the person can already see exactly what what your next move is going to be. 


Its like all trough life, growing up and learning and things we have it programmed into our heads by cultural influences that to get the things we want and to have a happy life all gotta be is nice all the time and to every one, but i dont think that's how it works at all, We got to use our heads and our creativity every step of the way, being nice is like looking for the easy way to get what you want. some times you gotta bust a few heads, crack a few eggs and say what you really feel.


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## deanman (Dec 27, 2012)

bro, it means you are too nice, therefore she wants you in her friendzone. that's it, don't think more, I've learned my lesson the hard way. 
but each case is a case.


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## Irvine (May 30, 2012)

Sometimes being nice make other perceive you as no confidence and have no ability to says no...


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## Eyesontheskies (Jan 31, 2013)

Ok I think I can answer this question, because I actually broke up with my last boyfriend because I thought he was a little too nice. Ok so this guy was awesome, he was really nice to me and to everyone he came in contact with, and I really liked that about him. Here is the problem though, he was way too agreeable. Like he just didnt really vocalize any preferences about anything. I would seriously have to plan every single thing we did because when I would ask him what he wanted to do all I would get is, "Anything that you want to do is fine with me." Of course I have social anxiety and it was already hard to be in a relationship anyway but especially when I am forced to entertain and plan everything. Girls like to be surprised sometimes and he just made the relationship kinda stale or something. Girls dont really mean that a guy is too nice, they really mean that a guy is too agreeable. I mean girls sort of want a man to lead them around a little and take some control in the relationship, but like in the relationship I was in, I sort of felt like the man having to lead him around.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)

Eyesontheskies said:


> Ok I think I can answer this question, because I actually broke up with my last boyfriend because I thought he was a little too nice. Ok so this guy was awesome, he was really nice to me and to everyone he came in contact with, and I really liked that about him. Here is the problem though, he was way too agreeable. Like he just didnt really vocalize any preferences about anything. I would seriously have to plan every single thing we did because when I would ask him what he wanted to do all I would get is, "Anything that you want to do is fine with me." Of course I have social anxiety and it was already hard to be in a relationship anyway but especially when I am forced to entertain and plan everything. Girls like to be surprised sometimes and he just made the relationship kinda stale or something. Girls dont really mean that a guy is too nice, they really mean that a guy is too agreeable. I mean girls sort of want a man to lead them around a little and take some control in the relationship, but like in the relationship I was in, I sort of felt like the man having to lead him around.


:agree


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

Not this thread AGAIN!


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