# Hows your gender friendship history and dating success?



## mfd (May 5, 2013)

*A couple notes...*


By "friend" I mean someone you've hung out with because you like them as a person. Not someone you approached out of attraction and wanted to date, but wound up in the friendzone instead. Not that those friends aren't still friends, but they're individuals approached with romantic intentions rather than for simple friendship, which is what I'm curious about when I speak of "friend".


I know there are a lot of GLBT users here who won't be able to answer the poll, but please know that my intention wasn't to exclude you :hug I didn't know what options to include, since I'm not GLBT myself and can only refer to my own experiences with the genders. Not to mention that the poll only allows for 20 options maximum, which I hit!



Yes, I know the poll has a lot of options.


You've only got one vote, so make sure you don't click one of the category dividers!

--​
Since joining this site I've seen a lot of threads from posters who are frustrated at their lack of a girlfriend/boyfriend.

Many posters have expressed the view that it's their appearance preventing them from attracting someone, but there have also been many threads from posters who say they aren't any good around the opposite sex.

That latter view is something that's always confused me, because I've never seen men and women as being terribly different from one another (aside from how they look). I think that's because I grew up with a sister who I hung out with a lot, and because during the times I've had friends, at least one of those friends has always been female.

I'm curious about the gender friendship history of users, and how it relates to their dating success. I'm making the poll anonymous, but feel free to expound upon your answer.


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

"FEMALE - I have no male sibling, but have had male friends. I have had a boyfriend."
:stu


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## Mousey9 (Dec 27, 2012)

I voted for having a female sibling/no female friends/no gf

I went to an all boys high school :no, took a year off to do absolutely nothing but isolate myself and then pretty much avoided everyone in my first year of college. So I never really had a friendly female interaction that lasted over 5 minutes in 6 years? Even though I have a sister that I talk to on a daily basis, it doesn't help.


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## apx24 (Jan 31, 2012)

MALE - I have a female sibling, but had no female friends. I haven't had a girlfriend.



infamous93 said:


> I went to an all boys high school :no, .


Same and the fact that I did has screwed me over.


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## BeyondOsiris (Nov 2, 2012)

Have no female siblings, haven't had a girlfriend, but have had a couple female friends.


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## ShadyGFX (Jul 18, 2012)

I haven't even spoken to a female, that I'm not related to, in the past 6 months.


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

It's interesting how many male respondents (so far) have had sisters, but no female friends.

I'd have thought out of anyone on the male side, they'd be the most likely to have had female friends. I wonder if their sisters were older or younger than them, and what their relationship is like.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

I am probably unusual in that I had 3 brothers (no sisters), but I am more comfortable around females (most of my friends have been females...and I've had a few girlfriends).


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

MALE - I have a female sibling, and have had female friends. I haven't had a girlfriend.

Though there's only really been one female friend irl. Most of them have just been online friendships.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

No sisters, but have had female friends and girlfriends.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

Evo1114 said:


> I am probably unusual in that I had 3 brothers (no sisters), but I am more comfortable around females (most of my friends have been females...and I've had a few girlfriends).


Same here. I was one of five boys (no girls), but friendship-wise I definitely feel more comfortable with women, for whatever reason.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

anonymid said:


> Same here. I was one of five boys (no girls), but friendship-wise I definitely feel more comfortable with women, for whatever reason.


Interesting. I wonder why that is. You'd think growing up with brothers we'd feel more comfortable around dudes. Maybe it's just that other males are so dissimilar to our brothers that we just don't feel comfortable around them because they are too 'different' to us, whereas we don't have that comparison to make for women?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

I like how this this topic will (without making the claim to do so) show that the majority of women with SA still at least end up in some relationships while the majority of men with SA will have a life resulting in not even one relationship. So far out of 27 replies, the stats break down to:

Men:
17:2 (17 no relationships, 2 at least 1 relationship)
11% of men with SA manage to get into at least 1 relationship

Women:
2:6 (2 no relationships, 6 at least 1 relationship)
75% of women with SA manage to get into at least 1 relationship

That's an advantage of 7:1 based solely on the sex of the person suffering SA.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

Evo1114 said:


> Interesting. I wonder why that is. You'd think growing up with brothers we'd feel more comfortable around dudes. Maybe it's just that other males are so dissimilar to our brothers that we just don't feel comfortable around them because they are too 'different' to us, whereas we don't have that comparison to make for women?


For what it's worth, I always felt much more comfortable around my mom than around my dad, so maybe that ended up being more of a factor than my sibling situation. I don't know.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

anonymid said:


> For what it's worth, I always felt much more comfortable around my mom than around my dad, so maybe that ended up being more of a factor than my sibling situation. I don't know.


I was the same way. My mom was stay at home and my dad was always at work. That probably has more to do with it than the brothers actually. So I guess I got more of the comfort/protective feeling from my mom. My dad also had no friends, so most of the external interactions were with my mom's friends (older women). Yeah, that probably explains it.

I do wonder how having a sister would have affected my life. I have had a lot of female friends but a whole lot of them were from me being 'friend-zoned'. I bet I could have established more romantic relationships if I had a sister to fight and argue with growing up.


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## prisonofmind (Apr 12, 2013)

Uh, I have 2 female siblings, have had girlfriend, have had female acquaintances, not really true friends, besides the girls i dated.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Ive had a few female friends back in high school thats about it.


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## kast (Nov 22, 2012)

MALE - I have no female sibling, but have had female friends. I have had a girlfriend.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I don't understand how you say 'glbt people' can't answer this poll considering there are options for not having dated guys/women here... Which still apply even if you've dated someone of your own gender.

but I've had a boyfriend, have male friends and a male sibling.


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## Soilwork (May 14, 2012)

Male - I have a female sibling, haven't had any female friends and haven't had a girlfriend. This seems to be the most popular response so far.


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## cozynights (Mar 19, 2013)

Female - I have a male sibling, and have had male friends. I haven't had a boyfriend.

Very very few male "friends".


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I don't understand how you say 'glbt people' can't answer this poll considering there are options for not having dated guys/women here... Which still apply even if you've dated someone of your own gender.


There are options for not having dated guys/women, but the questions themselves are to find out how much experience you've had with the opposite gender outside of the dating sphere, and how that relates to your dating success.

Ultimately what I'm trying to find out through that is how people view the opposite gender. If they see them as potential friends_ or_ mates, or if they only see them as potential mates and otherwise unrelatable. And then seeing how that view impacts their chances at finding a relationship.

There's a 20 question limit so I wasn't able to add all the questions I was wondering about. I also wasn't sure how the gender of siblings and friends would relate to someone who is GLBT, or which genders to include, since I've only got my own experiences to base it off.

If you (or anyone else) wants to copy the format of the poll to make one for GLBT members, I could edit my initial post to add a link between them.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

Male - I have no female sibling, and have had no female friends. I haven't had a girlfriend.


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

VanGogh said:


> I like how this this topic will (without making the claim to do so) show that the majority of women with SA still at least end up in some relationships while the majority of men with SA will have a life resulting in not even one relationship. So far out of 27 replies, the stats break down to:
> 
> Men:
> 17:2 (17 no relationships, 2 at least 1 relationship)
> ...


Well I'm glad you pointed this out. I was having the blues, but since you pointed out that life is automatically easier for me because of my gender, I feel ever so happy!


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## TrueAstralKnight (Jun 23, 2012)

No female sibling, only one female friend, never had a girlfriend.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Female - male siblings, no male friends, and no boyfriend. 

I did have a male friend briefly until he just became an online friend. I'd rather not count that, since online friends are easy to have. And also easy to lose, we're not friends anymore.


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

How bizarre that for both males and females, the same option is highest for dating success. That category being...

_"Having no sibling of the opposite gender, yet having had friends of the opposite gender._"

And they're not just a little ahead, for both genders that option has more than all the other "have dated" options combined.

I wonder why that is? The poll isn't exactly scientific, but it's totally not the option I was expecting would be in the lead. Thanks all for participating so far!


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Amphoteric said:


> Well I'm glad you pointed this out. I was having the blues, but since you pointed out that life is automatically easier for me because of my gender, I feel ever so happy!


You're welcome. For the record, I didn't state an opinion, I just pointed out a statistical fact extracted from a poll that this thread is about. How you want to acknowledge it is up to you.


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

jumping to a conclusion is not pointing out "a statistical fact"


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## cosmicslop (Nov 24, 2012)

No male sibling/I've had male friends/had a boyfriend. I a good amount of my friendships with guys who had hidden motives and I was just seen as some prospect for their own benefit. It's annoying and dishonest. tbh I wouldn't mind having no guy friends.

If it helps, I didn't haven't SA back then when i had friends, obviously. I was shy but no crippling anxiety. I've always been single by choice. If I had a chance for a fling i took it though, if flings count as bfs.

edit


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

VanGogh said:


> You're welcome. For the record, I didn't state an opinion, I just pointed out a statistical fact extracted from a poll that this thread is about. How you want to acknowledge it is up to you.





fingertips said:


> jumping to a conclusion is not pointing out "a statistical fact"


What fingertips said. Looking up and posting "stats" like that only serve a purpose that has become far too familiar for this forum.


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## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

MALE - I have a female sibling, no female friends, and never had a boyfriend.


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## MCHB (Jan 1, 2013)

...and that pretty much sums it up!


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## Nekomata (Feb 3, 2012)

Don't have a male sibling, have had male friends and had/currently have a boyfriend.


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## march_hare (Jan 18, 2006)

_FEMALE - I have a male sibling, and have had male friends. I have had a boyfriend.
_


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Amphoteric said:


> What fingertips said. Looking up and posting "stats" like that only serve a purpose that has become far too familiar for this forum.


That's a pretty interesting take. To take stats that show something and want to sweep it under the rug. Maybe the reason it's too familiar to this forum is because it's reflecting reality and it's hard to ignore this big aspect that affects a big chunk of people here.

I was watching Lorenzo's Oil last night for the first time. I found it interesting that the parents who were seeking a real solution for their son rather than just going by the scientific politics of the time were jaunted and disregarded and even pressured to keep silent.

The truth and paths to a solution are sometimes not welcome topics mainly because of the discomfort people feel to either accept it and work with it toward a better solution or because it bucks established thinking that most want to embrace even if the established thinking isn't solving much for anyone.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

VanGogh said:


> That's a pretty interesting take. To take stats that show something and want to sweep it under the rug.


An informal poll on an internet forum with an extremely small sample does not show much of anything. Of course, a properly controlled study with a significant sample size still could end up showing the same result. But that's what you would need to see before rushing to your conclusion. Please don't interpret the results of a poll like this as "statistical fact." It's terribly irresponsible.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

anonymid said:


> An informal poll on an internet forum with an extremely small sample does not show much of anything. Of course, a properly controlled study with a significant sample size still could end up showing the same result. But that's what you would need to see before rushing to your conclusion. Please don't interpret the results of a poll like this as "statistical fact." It's terribly irresponsible.


Some humans knew the world was round before empirical data was presented to prove it.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

VanGogh said:


> Some humans knew the world was round before empirical data was presented to prove it.


I'm not disputing your hypothesis. I'm disputing your claim that the poll results here constitute "statistical fact."


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

VanGogh said:


> That's a pretty interesting take. To take stats that show something and want to sweep it under the rug. Maybe the reason it's too familiar to this forum is because it's reflecting reality and it's hard to ignore this big aspect that affects a big chunk of people here.
> 
> I was watching Lorenzo's Oil last night for the first time. I found it interesting that the parents who were seeking a real solution for their son rather than just going by the scientific politics of the time were jaunted and disregarded and even pressured to keep silent.
> 
> The truth and paths to a solution are sometimes not welcome topics mainly because of the discomfort people feel to either accept it and work with it toward a better solution or because it bucks established thinking that most want to embrace even if the established thinking isn't solving much for anyone.


You seriously think you've made some ground breaking discovery here by checking the stats of this poll? The votes are what they are in the poll, but your decision to highlight them in the way you did, it's about on the same level with comments such as "i asked a girl out and she said no-what a stuck up *****!!!!" "girls with sa have it easier because theyre girls!!!" "no girl dates me because of my sa" ... it all only serves the purpose of claiming that one gender has it better when it comes to having SA. It's ridiculous and petty to think that the results of an online poll could in any way be thought of as a "fact".


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

anonymid said:


> I'm not disputing your hypothesis. I'm disputing your claim that the poll results here constitute "statistical fact."


I didn't just say "statistical fact", I said "a statistical fact extracted from a poll that this thread is about". That was with only 27 respondents. Now that it's gotten 80, let's take a look at the numbers again:

Guys on SAS who've had a GF vs not:
15/34 - 31%

Girls on SAS who've had a BF vs not:
26/9 - 74%

The stats continue to indicate that males on SAS are far more likely to have trouble getting into any relationship when compared to females regardless of sibling dynamics. That's a statistic extracted from the poll. If that's not what one can consider a fact, then I guess math is meaningless now.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Amphoteric said:


> You seriously think you've made some ground breaking discovery here by checking the stats of this poll? The votes are what they are in the poll, but your decision to highlight them in the way you did, it's about on the same level with comments such as "i asked a girl out and she said no-what a stuck up *****!!!!" "girls with sa have it easier because theyre girls!!!" "no girl dates me because of my sa" ... it all only serves the purpose of claiming that one gender has it better when it comes to having SA. It's ridiculous and petty to think that the results of an online poll could in any way be thought of as a "fact".


It's OK to disagree with me. My words are pretty calm, though, I'm not exactly sure how doing math has become a source or irritation.


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## Jig210 (Jan 24, 2013)

So much reading just to choose an answer. gosh


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## Squirrelevant (Jul 27, 2008)

VanGogh said:


> I like how this this topic will (without making the claim to do so) show that the majority of women with SA still at least end up in some relationships while the majority of men with SA will have a life resulting in not even one relationship.


This poll can only represent the subset of people that visit this forum and decide to vote in this poll, leaving it vulnerable to Self-selection bias. This would not be a problem if there was a random chance of someone with SA visiting this forum and voting in the poll, however it is not reasonable to make that assumption for the following reasons (among many others):


To get anything from this forum, you must be able to comprehend and use the English language. Thus those who can't, likely wouldn't visit the forum, let alone vote in this poll.
Of those who have visited the forum, many will not enjoy the atmosphere and stop visiting. For example, I've seen forums overrun by members with certain views and experiences far outside the norm, because they happened to be vocal enough to disrupt the environment and scare members with differing viewpoints away.
Moderation acts as a form of non-random selection, removing certain users from the site that may differ from those that remain in terms of their experiences and likelihood to vote in the poll. This can also impact on the overall culture of the site as mentioned in point 2.
There are some here that may believe that they have SA and answer the poll, but do not actually fit the diagnosis.
Of those who encounter the poll, those motivated to actually click on it and vote may differ on average from the typical SA sufferer. In this case, it seems reasonable to assume that those who are particularly focused on or bothered by their lack of relationships would be more likely to vote. Perhaps this level of focus and botheration differs between the genders?
The more you really think about it, the more problems arise in getting a representative sample from an informal forum poll as a result of self-selection bias. If I could be bothered, I'm sure I could go on to list over a hundred different factors that could make this poll unreliable and therefore not useful in supporting your hypothesis.


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## mike91 (Sep 23, 2012)

i got 2 sisters 1 brother never had a female friendship never had a gf


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

pointy said:


> The more you really think about it, the more problems arise in getting a representative sample from an informal forum poll as a result of self-selection bias. If I could be bothered, I'm sure I could go on to list over a hundred different factors that could make this poll unreliable and therefore not useful in supporting your hypothesis.


So based on your assessment, it's useless to extract any information from this forum at all on any level whatsoever. Other than the propensity for so many here to over-analyze.


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## Squirrelevant (Jul 27, 2008)

VanGogh said:


> So based on your assessment, it's useless to extract any information from this forum at all on any level whatsoever. Other than the propensity for so many here to over-analyze.


I wouldn't say on _any _level. I just don't think generalizations can be made based on what people report here.


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## meepie (Jun 20, 2010)

_I have no male sibling, but have had male friends. I have had a boyfriend.

_I have not had many male friends though(maybe 1), almost all were female and I'm only including offline.


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## Raphael200 (Aug 18, 2012)

I don't know......


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> The stats continue to indicate that males on SAS are far more likely to have trouble getting into any relationship when compared to females regardless of sibling dynamics. That's a statistic extracted from the poll. If that's not what one can consider a fact, then I guess math is meaningless now.


Even if the poll results can be taken as totally accurate, 1 in 3 chances are still pretty good odds.

But rather than using those results to argue which gender has it worse, those results should be used to find out if there are patterns for success which go beyond gender.

What has become obvious through this poll though is that the greatest contributor to being in a relationship is the presence of friends of the opposite gender. Only 3 of the 16 guys who have had a girlfriend have not had female friends, and only 2 of the 22 girls who have had a boyfriend have not had male friends.

This implies that when there are threads about someone having had no success with dating, the first question we should ask is about their friendship history. And the best advice we could give is for them to befriend men/women, not for the purposes of eventually asking out, but just to learn how to be around them.

I believe there are two possible factors coming into play here.

One is that the person sees the opposite gender as being very different from them self, and therefore unrelatable. This makes it difficult for them to approach or talk with men/women even as a friend, nevermind as a boyfriend/girlfriend.

The other possibility is that the person is only evaluating men or women as potential mates. They are focusing on the traits that play a role in attraction, rather than looking at the person inside. This makes them only pursue men/women who they're attracted to for dating, not for friendship. They wouldn't be looking beyond the surface, and I think people pick up on that.

Every day there are new threads about people who are lonely or depressed about never having had a relationship. It would be nice is those people could be given some advice that follows a statistical trend.


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## Beige (May 19, 2013)

I voted for the last, but only if you define "friend" relative to my experiences with females, because really I feel like I've never had a real friend in my life (male or female).


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## Fenren (Sep 20, 2009)

MALE - I have a female sibling, but had no female friends. I haven't had a girlfriend.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

I guess I'll pick I have a male sibling, I have had male friends and boyfriend...even tho they were short term.


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## Jcgrey (Feb 5, 2011)

Too many poll options. I was best friends with my ex wife. We were together for 5 years but my 'conditions' became too much for her and she wanted out.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

Male- I have friends but I don't get too close to people, never had a gf but I do date quite often...


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## Remnant of Dawn (Feb 22, 2012)

Male, don't have any female siblings. I have a couple of female friends, but I've never dated anyone. Not interested in it at the moment (or maybe too anxious, whichever).


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## Lady Violet (Jun 6, 2013)

FEMALE - I have no male sibling, but have had male friends. I have had a boyfriend.


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## Lady Violet (Jun 6, 2013)

mfd said:


> What has become obvious through this poll though is that the greatest contributor to being in a relationship is the presence of friends of the opposite gender. Only 3 of the 16 guys who have had a girlfriend have not had female friends, and only 2 of the 22 girls who have had a boyfriend have not had male friends.
> 
> This implies that when there are threads about someone having had no success with dating, the first question we should ask is about their friendship history. And the best advice we could give is for them to *befriend men/women, not for the purposes of eventually asking out*, but just to learn how to be around them.
> 
> ...


Yes, this.


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## ItsEasierToRun (Feb 2, 2013)

I've never really had anything to do with girls which is why I get so nervous around them these days.. :|


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## radisto (Apr 14, 2013)

MALE - I have a female sibling, but had no female friends. I haven't had a girlfriend.


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> I like how this this topic will (without making the claim to do so) show that the majority of women with SA still at least end up in some relationships while the majority of men with SA will have a life resulting in not even one relationship. So far out of 27 replies, the stats break down to:
> 
> Men:
> 17:2 (17 no relationships, 2 at least 1 relationship)
> ...


I don't agree with a lot of your takes on gender Van Gogh and I don't believe either gender has SA worse, but your implication that males with SA may face different challenges when forming relationships with the opposite sex because of stereotypes and cultural factors seems plausible to me.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

F1X3R said:


> I don't agree with a lot of your takes on gender Van Gogh and I don't believe either gender has SA worse, but your implication that males with SA may face different challenges when forming relationships with the opposite sex because of stereotypes and cultural factors seems plausible to me.


I don't think I was saying anything different than that.

I'm not sure what takes on gender other than this might seem incorrect, I'm usually just sharing from my own experience. That experience is probably limited in the grand scheme of the whole world, but so is everyone else's -- we can only actually meet & know thousands of people in life, not millions and certainly not billions, so all our conclusions are based on our own direct experiences or extrapolations from that. Those conclusions will sometimes come in conflict with what society teaches us, what scientists tell us and what others believe. We hold onto those conclusions because our life experience teaches us otherwise.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Do SAS friends count?


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## shelbster18 (Oct 8, 2011)

I have no male sibling and have had no male friends. I haven't had a boyfriend. :blank

Unless guy friends on SAS count.


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## tilo brown eyes (Jun 7, 2013)

I have four male siblings, I've had male friends, but haven't had a boyfriend.

I guess that's partly because people say I don't cut the right image of an approachable girl, I'm not what guys are looking for and well even though I'm outgoing in speech I'm not as a person, the fact that I rarely leave my room, because a) I don't have a lot of places to go. B) all my friends were back-stabbing liars who walked all over me and c) I don't walk the streets for no reason. 
And I'm afraid of being judged and rejected again for no reason.

So yeah......that's me.


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> I don't think I was saying anything different than that.
> 
> I'm not sure what takes on gender other than this might seem incorrect, I'm usually just sharing from my own experience. That experience is probably limited in the grand scheme of the whole world, but so is everyone else's -- we can only actually meet & know thousands of people in life, not millions and certainly not billions, so all our conclusions are based on our own direct experiences or extrapolations from that. Those conclusions will sometimes come in conflict with what society teaches us, what scientists tell us and what others believe. We hold onto those conclusions because our life experience teaches us otherwise.


I agree with you that if men are expected to be the aggressor, than that could explain why men with SA could face certain challenges. But I don't think that's the issue or even that unfair.

Remember when we argued about whether another user should've made more moves on the guy she liked, but I thought he should have done more if he was interested? I just don't think women expecting the guy to lead is a problem.

I see how the buck could be passed on to a guy and it's kind of dishonest to write off a guy because he didn't make enough moves if you had real interest in him, but on the other hand if a girl puts herself out more than usual, not only could she get rejected but she could be seen as unusual or desperate.


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## Dat Gyul (Jul 6, 2012)

I have three make sibling my four best friend are males and I'm married. 

The first friend I ever made in school was a boy and it was fine till the other boys started teasing him about being friends with me so I went friendless for a while lol.

I'm really close to my brothers, I consider my brother born after me to be one of the best friend I have and if any one comes close enough to understanding me, he does. It's funny because we fought like cats and dogs when we were younger lol.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

F1X3R said:


> I agree with you that if men are expected to be the aggressor, than that could explain why men with SA could face certain challenges. But I don't think that's the issue or even that unfair.
> 
> Remember when we argued about whether another user should've made more moves on the guy she liked, but I thought he should have done more if he was interested? I just don't think women expecting the guy to lead is a problem.
> 
> I see how the buck could be passed on to a guy and it's kind of dishonest to write off a guy because he didn't make enough moves if you had real interest in him, but on the other hand if a girl puts herself out more than usual, not only could she get rejected but she could be seen as unusual or desperate.


But that situation wasn't a case of the guy making moves or not. He was making moves, just not in the pace or way that other user seemed to have an expectation of. It seemed very clear that if his timing was better that her interest would be there, so her taking initiative on occasion would be necessary because she was projecting her perception of what timing she expected and that would be something the guy had no idea about. That wasn't about initiating, that was just following through without being at the mercy of one's own perception over optimal timing. That whole thread was rather silly because it was like the OP of that thread was implying her only interest comes from a guy who is constantly pounding on her door... everything else comes second. If a guy is not pounding on her door, even if she likes him and things seemed to be going well, she will not be interested because it would require her to make extra effort in communicating.


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