# the best medication for social anxiety



## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey all,

I think we should come up with a top 5 list for meds when it comes to treating social anxiety.

Here are the options:


benzodiazepines
SSRI's
SNRI's
Dopaminergic agents
MAOI's
atypical antipsychotics (for comorbid bipolar)
Buspar
Remeron
TCA's
etc.
_basically i want to try a new drug and am wondering if anybody has had *long term* success with any particular ones._


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

My list of things i consider usefull for social anxiety (not by personal experiences, but by many succesfull anecdotal reports).

- Stimulants (like dexedrine or adderall)
- Opiates (like oxycodone)
- GHB (Probebly impossible to get unless you got a really good doc).
- MAOI's
- Agomelatine
- NMDA antagonists (like memantine) 
- High dose tandospirone
- Low dose Amisulpiride
- Benzo's
- Lyrica

Those are 5 meds i consider most effective:

- Stimulants
- Opiates
- GHB
- Benzo's
- MAOI's

I left out MDAI as its not aproved as a medication.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

rocknroll714 said:


> NMDA antagonists? Huh??
> 
> Everything else I agree with.
> 
> ...


Some ppl only seem to respond to NMDA antagonists, cant explain it. But putting it in the top 5 was a bit too fast, benzo's should deserve that place.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Those are 5 meds i consider most effective:
> 
> - Stimulants
> - Opiates
> ...


What is MDAI and can you buy it??


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

Klonopin pretty much cured me. I don't care what people think of me anymore.
I still lack that drive to communicate with other people though. Ritalin, for example. works for this. Powerful stimulants are the best for depression. (desoxypipadrol hell yeah way too strong btw)
Stay away from anti depressants they do not really work. I've read so many replies on this forum and almost nobody seems to benefit from them. 

I would still like to like to try GHB someday anyway, just for fun .


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jakeforpresident said:


> What is MDAI and can you buy it??


Read my own thread for more info about it. Its a SSRA (Selective serotonin releasing agent). It however is only available as an Research chemical so trialling this substance is experimental.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

rocknroll714 said:


> Ohh you meant like ketamine for treatment-resistant depression. That totally went over my head lol. Yeah ketamine and [possibly] other NMDA antagonists as well.
> 
> MDAI is an MDMA homologue (sort of -- they're related structurally, albeit rather distantly). It's different than MDMA in that MDMA is a triple releaser of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, while MDAI is selective only for serotonin. MDAI is superior to MDMA in some senses in that it doesn't produce neurotoxicity, isn't addictive, and is fully legal, but at the same time it's far less effective for depression and anxiety than MDMA itself. Nonetheless, it's still a fabulous drug and it can kind of be thought of as what SSRIs _should_ have been. You can order MDAI online relatively inexpensively.


Yeah NMDA antagonists are for many ppl very effective, but as this thread was about social anxiety only i've replaced them with benzo's in my top 5. Altough there are some ppl that only seem to respond to them for social anxiety aswell, so they also deserve some credit here.

Edit: Besides i recommend against trying MDAI at this point as barely any ppl tried taking it on a regular basis, its very experimental, there are many treatments available that are known to be safe and effective.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

rubyruby said:


> to anyone:
> When you say you take stimulants - do you take them alone or are you taking them with an antidepressent. Usually people with SA are nervous so I have a hard time understanding how a stimulant would be helpful.
> 
> The only thing I have heard of is strattera (used for ADD/depression).
> ...


In my case amphetamines cure me of social anxiety, while benzo's dont do a thing, its a matter of pharmacology not a matter of it making you more nervous. For some ppl its just the opposite.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

all these lists i completely agree with....stimulants are the most effective drugs in existence for my SA. Amphetamine, nicotine, Caffeine, Ritalin,.....i think they help because they give me a desire to socialize with people....however, with repeated use, anxiety starts becoming more prevalent, so a GABAergic compound is necessary at the same time as the Stimulant. Benzos, by themselves, are not very helpful for me. They certainly take away alot of the tension and worry and phsyical symptoms of SA, but i still have Zero motivation to communicate with others, which i believe is a considerable cause for my anxiety. The combination of Benzo/Alcohol/other GABAergic + Stimulant has always been the most effective for me.

here is my list, which is nearly the same as the others:

Dopaminergic Stimulants-- (amphetamine--used short-term, for like 3-7 days it helps, after that, the beneficial effects completely reverse)
Opiates
5ht2c (selective) antagonists (Agomelatine)
GABAergics--Klonopin, Valerian, Kava Kava
DXM/NMDA antagonists (??? i have no clue as to exactly which mechanism of DXM helps me, but DXM + Adderall + nicotine was great for me)
Nicotine

i despise all SSRIs and SNRIs. I thought MAOIs would be different , because they work for so many people. One could almost say that an MAOI would work for anyone, if they could tolerate the side effects...however, I personally hate Parnate. I feel no emotion, no drive to do anything, and i can't enjoy anything. I can say in complete truth that i felt better taking Tramadol + Xanax. On Parnate, my anxiety/worry is greatly reduced. However, i just don't care. I have no motivation to talk to anyone. So even in the presence of people, i still suffer considerably, because i cannot think of anything to say, because i feel nothing. I have no emotions anymore, just as i had no emotions on SSRIs.... SA is reduced. but there is no point...either way, i don't talk to anyone. .......*the only option i can think of would be to add Mianserin or Mirtazapine to counteract the negative/undesirable Serotonergic effects of Parnate*....but still.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

sorry about my rambling last post...i doubt it was relevant to the topic. most people actually do Great on MAOIs.

but soon, i hope to change my medication regimen to the following:

Dextroamphetamine 10mg 3x/day, Tramadol 50mg 3x/day(or other Opiate), Memantine 5-20mg once every 2-4 days, Klonopin 0.5 mg 1x/day. Selegiline 5-10mg once every week, and possibly Mocolobemide 75 mg 2x/day (or another WEAK serotonergic, to add 5ht3 agonism, counteracting Memantine's 5ht3 antagonism). And maybe Nicotine, just for added benefit (and to counteract Memantine's Nicotinic ACHr antagonism.)


If possible by any means, I would try to obtain Ketamine, Agomelatine, Tandospirone/Flesinoxan, a Serotonin Releaser of some kind, Buprenorphine, Codeine, Amisulpride, Dimebolin, any 5ht2c antagonist, and a COMT inhibitor.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> sorry about my rambling last post...i doubt it was relevant to the topic. most people actually do Great on MAOIs.
> 
> but soon, i hope to change my medication regimen to the following:
> 
> ...


 Why would you take both DXM and memantine? Just take memantine on its own every day. And why do you want to counteract the 5HT3 antagonism? Taking moclobemide for this is a bad idea. Moclobemide wont have much effect as its a weak drug and would only increase your chances of getting serotonin syndrome(when combining with DXM for example).

Also why counteract memantine nicotinic antagonism?


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## JayDontCareEh (Jul 16, 2007)

crayzyMed said:


> My list of things i consider usefull for social anxiety (not by personal experiences, but by many succesfull anecdotal reports).
> 
> - Stimulants (like dexedrine or adderall)


Can you be prescribed Dexedrine without having to see a Psychologist?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

JayDontCareEh said:


> Can you be prescribed Dexedrine without having to see a Psychologist?


It depends on your country, in my country (belguim) its possible.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> You just described my experience with Nardil to a tee.


LOL, it kinda just popped into my thought processes today...that was exactly what you had described with Nardil, and i totally understand now. I was in a state of denial after you reported such a negative experience with Nardil....i didn't want to believe you. I wanted Parnate to be AWESOMe....but i see the truth now..i see the light. You were completely right.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Why would you take both DXM and memantine? Just take memantine on its own every day. And why do you want to counteract the 5HT3 antagonism? Taking moclobemide for this is a bad idea. Moclobemide wont have much effect as its a weak drug and would only increase your chances of getting serotonin syndrome(when combining with DXM for example).
> 
> Also why counteract memantine nicotinic antagonism?


DXM?....oh not Dextromethorphan, the stuff in Cough Syrup. I was referring to Dextroamphetamine, the D-isomer of Amphetamine (which is more active and less anxiogenic than L-methamphetamine). However, i guess they both could use the same abbreviation.

I must admit that i have virtually NO knowledge whatsoever as to the mechanism of 5ht3 receptors....however, i know some people with OCD have reported improvements with 5ht3 antagonists. Nevertheless, 5ht3 antagonism presumably would reduce the dopamine release caused by D-amphetamine and Tramadol...i would rather have the Dopamine release. Also, In some of the reports ive seen, it appears people experience "flat, anhedonic, disgusting" feelings on Memantine. Possibly, could these feelings be attributed to more than just the NMDA antagonism? What if some of this was caused by 5ht3 antagonism and Nicotinic Acetylcholine antagonism? And here is my most uneducated assumption-- I like the effects of Nicotine. It reduces my OCD, and releases Dopamine. So woudln't nAChR antagonism be a negative/bad thing? I assumed i would have to use nicotine to bring my nAChr activity back to baseline activity.....


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I was reading your post too fast, tought you mentioned DXM.

Memantine has never been reported to reduce the effects of amphetamine, this does seem to be the case with ondansetron, probably because its more potent as an 5HT3 antagonist, memantine wont do any harm because of that property.



> Also, In some of the reports ive seen, it appears people experience "flat, anhedonic, disgusting" feelings on Memantine.


Tolerance builds to these effects.

Memantine blocks the effects of nicotine, but with the cocktail your planning i wouldnt see any need to use nicotine.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I was reading your post too fast, tought you mentioned DXM.
> 
> Memantine has never been reported to reduce the effects of amphetamine, this does seem to be the case with ondansetron, probably because its more potent as an 5HT3 antagonist, memantine wont do any harm because of that property.
> 
> ...


cool...im glad to know that it doesnt block 5ht3 receptors super strongly thats not cool.

i think alot of the reason i like nicotine is cuz ive been addicted to it in the past. i used to smoke a pack a day sometimes, along with chewing alot of nicotine gum....i always think about it. even though ive been officialy off it for over 3 months, i still always think about it. i cant stop thinking about the cigarette, inhaling the smoke, blowing it out, and feeling awesome for a little while. anything that attempts to block nicotine from working scares me....


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> cool...im glad to know that it doesnt block 5ht3 receptors super strongly thats not cool.
> 
> i think alot of the reason i like nicotine is cuz ive been addicted to it in the past. i used to smoke a pack a day sometimes, along with chewing alot of nicotine gum....i always think about it. even though ive been officialy off it for over 3 months, i still always think about it. i cant stop thinking about the cigarette, inhaling the smoke, blowing it out, and feeling awesome for a little while. anything that attempts to block nicotine from working scares me....


That would be a good thing man, it would help you to stay of the cigaretes in the future


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

It's not a drug but exercise deals with tolerance too. You guys seems to be a bit obsessed to develop tolerance against drugs though.:roll
I mean eventually your body develops tolerance to everything right?..the future against anxiety is gene modification. Not a bunch of pills.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> It's not a drug but exercise deals with tolerance too. You guys seems to be a bit obsessed to develop tolerance against drugs though.:roll
> I mean eventually your body develops tolerance to everything right?..the future against anxiety is gene modification. Not a bunch of pills.


props 2 u man... i completely agree. exercise is very effective for me, nearly all the time, in reducing all my symptoms of OCD, depression, and SA. Gene modification sounds insanely awesome. and it doesnt sound to hard either....i read this study where researchers injected a virus into mouse brains that infected and mutated/changed their gene expression in their brains.....it was cool. but until people start doing this on humans,, its essential to prevent tolerance to drugs, even if only temporarily. I live on a relatively day to day basis, so even if a drug is a short term solution, the longer i prevent tolerance to it, the longer it will help me get through the day. Of course, this process seems like a dead-end (which it is, you are completely right)....but hopefully, the dead end is very very very far away. lol.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Freesix88 said:


> It's not a drug but exercise deals with tolerance too. You guys seems to be a bit obsessed to develop tolerance against drugs though.:roll
> I mean eventually your body develops tolerance to everything right?..the future against anxiety is gene modification. Not a bunch of pills.


NMDA antagonits prevent tolerance to various drugs, breaks would still be needed but tolerance is reversed faster. Because of NMDA antagonists opiates, benzo's and amphetamines could be a long term solution.

Gene modification isnt possible ATM, so drugs are the only way we can look at right now.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> true. i completely agree. exercise is very effective for me, nearly all the time, in reducing all my symptoms of OCD, depression, and SA. Gene modification sounds insanely awesome. and it doesnt sound to hard either....i read this study where researchers injected a virus into mouse brains that infected and mutated/changed their gene expression in their brains.....it was cool. but until people start doing this on humans,, its essential to prevent tolerance to drugs, even if only temporarily. I live on a relatively day to day basis, so even if a drug is a short term solution, the longer i prevent tolerance to it, the longer it will help me. Of course, this process seems like a dead-end....hopefully, the dead end is very very far away. LOL.


Exercise never did anything for me.


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## Akira90125 (Jun 12, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> My list of things i consider usefull for social anxiety (not by personal experiences, but by many succesfull anecdotal reports).
> 
> - Stimulants (like dexedrine or adderall)


Why are stimulants effective for social anxiety? I thought it only works for ADD or sleep disorders?


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> That would be a good thing man, it would help you to stay of the cigaretes in the future


im gonna cry now. i had a nervous breakdown and started crying and semi-screaming the last time i tried to throw out my last box of cigarettes. I eventually threw them out.....i know its very beneficial to not smoke. but how about nicotine gum? that administration route is safer (except for the possible mouth cancer). I mean, i hope if i get this cocktail of drugs, i won't need nicotine. but if i have money and access to nicotine, its gonna be really hard for me to resist striking the match....i would need a serious incentive to not do so... wow i just really humbled myself.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Akira90125 said:


> Why are stimulants effective for social anxiety? I thought it only works for ADD or sleep disorders?


Because they raise dopamine, dopamine makes you prosocial Amphetamines completely abolish my social anxiety unlike benzo's that do nothing.
You get more reward out of social situations so you want to socially interact.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> im gonna cry now. i had a nervous breakdown and started crying and semi-screaming the last time i tried to throw out my last box of cigarettes. I eventually threw them out.....i know its very beneficial to not smoke. but how about nicotine gum? that administration route is safer (except for the possible mouth cancer). I mean, i hope if i get this cocktail of drugs, i won't need nicotine. but if i have money and access to nicotine, its gonna be really hard for me to resist striking the match....i would need a serious incentive to not do so... wow i just really humbled myself.


Dont worry about it man, i'm sure you wont need nicotine when your on a coktail


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

crayzyMed said:


> dopamine makes you prosocial Amphetamines completely abolish my social anxiety unlike benzo's that do nothing.


 would amphetamines make a psychotic person worse just curious..


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> would amphetamines make a psychotic person worse just curious..


Hmm i would think yes but i really cant tell for sure tough.


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## Akira90125 (Jun 12, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Because they raise dopamine, dopamine makes you prosocial Amphetamines completely abolish my social anxiety unlike benzo's that do nothing.
> You get more reward out of social situations so you want to socially interact.


you seem pretty knowledgable about neurotransmitters. i never understood the differences between serotonin, norepenephrine and dopamine. how does each affect behavior? you said dopamine makes you prosocial. could you please elaborate? also on serotonin and norepenephrine. i've had a hard time finding a clear explanation online. thanks!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Akira90125 said:


> you seem pretty knowledgable about neurotransmitters. i never understood the differences between serotonin, norepenephrine and dopamine. how does each affect behavior? you said dopamine makes you prosocial. could you please elaborate? also on serotonin and norepenephrine. i've had a hard time finding a clear explanation online. thanks!


Well its alot more complex then just saying what each neurotransmitter does, as there are several receptors which the neurotransmitters act on each having a differend effect. (Activaton of some receptors causes anxiety (5HT2C receptors for example) while activation of other have the opposite effect (5HT1A), serotonin activates both of them.

But everything seems to comedown to dopamine, dopamine is the most important receptor when it comes to experiencing pleasure etc.

Low D2 (a dopamine receptor) sensitivity has been associated with social anxiety, this is why we dont really have a drive to socialize, or enjoy social situations.

Serotonin seems to cause more empathy then euphoria.


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## Akira90125 (Jun 12, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Well its alot more complex then just saying what each neurotransmitter does, as there are several receptors which the neurotransmitters act on each having a differend effect. (Activaton of some receptors causes anxiety (5HT2C receptors for example) while activation of other have the opposite effect (5HT1A), serotonin activates both of them.
> 
> But everything seems to comedown to dopamine, dopamine is the most important receptor when it comes to experiencing pleasure etc.
> 
> ...


o i see. does dopamine cause increases in concentration as well, or is that a different chemical?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Akira90125 said:


> o i see. does dopamine cause increases in concentration as well, or is that a different chemical?


Yeah it would also increase motivation, concentration, focus etc.


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## captshiner (Sep 30, 2009)

crazymed:

I had taken wellbutrin for 2 months and the anxiety increase was pretty bad.. from what I understand, it has more an effect on norepinephrine then dopamine... would this mean that a something like adderall having stronger effect on dopamine be much better, or could it make things potentially worse? I'm on zoloft, klonopin and remeron atm


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

rocknroll714 said:


> **** ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!!
> 
> Everybody let's flush them all down the toilet!!!!
> 
> WHO'S WITH ME???


noooo..i like antidepressants.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

For me, and I've tried _almost _everything. Prescription wise -

Valium 10 mg 3xs a day as needed 

& low dose Dextroamphetame (2.5 mg 3xs a day)

Really helps so much right now, best remedy (prescription-medicine wise) I've ever had for anxiety/fatige&mental fog.

I never liked the SSRI's, didn't help. Really, I feel like they made me feel more bipolar, some just increased the anxiety or created numbness (either emotionally or sexual side effects) so they weren't and aren't for me. It was extremely hard for me every time trying to "find the right dose" and "find the one that helped SA" bc I'm very sensitive to some meds, esp this category. So it was not only hard to START them but obvioiusly even harder going off. Then the one that DID work ~Lexapro but only at 2.5 mg, no higher (although I was really bipolar on it in strange way), didn't work the last time I tried it anyway. Done with them. But if others have success with it, go for it. To each, their own way. 

My current meds are helping a lot for me to reach my goals right now at this point in my life but my my real goal includes getting off all pharms for good. 

Good luck.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> **** ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!!
> 
> Everybody let's flush them all down the toilet!!!!
> 
> WHO'S WITH ME???


if we flush all the SSRIs/SNRIs, then the fish and the turtles will injest the water flushed down into the streams....and they will get all agitated and there will be a mass event where fish jump out onto the shores and turtles start eating people.....then the turtle population will shrink by 87% due to their inability to reproduce....and anyone who eats fish will not only get mercury poisoning but also they will get sexual dysfunction, so birth rates will go down all over the world....everyone will stop caring and going to their jobs...and they will go to psychiatrists, saying that they have "apathy" and that they just don't care about anything anymore. and they will get prescribed Prozac. and overall, the world economy will rapidly decay over a period of 4 months until we all go extinct from starvation.

However, if we flushed all the Wellbutrin down the toilet....the opposite would happen. Fish and Turtle populations would explode. Fish-consuming human pupulations would explode...the rape/violence rate would rise exponetially....divorce rates would plummet, and 40% of all emergency room visits would be due to seizures. The makers of Lunesta/Ambien/Sonata would make profits of 23.5 billion USD in less than 2 months...accidents would quadruple in the morning hours....and we would all die.....lolololol

i say SSRIs/SNRIs be taken off the market for depression and anxiety, and be replaced by reversible MAO-A inhibitors and other stuff... or there should at least be an upper limit on SSRI/SNRI dosages. Its scary how high doctors will go with treatment-resistant OCD patients....or when someone says its not working for depression, they get upped dosage. But nevertheless, SSRIs did pretty much save my life when i was completely unfunctional due to OCD and depression...so i might be a little bit of a hypocrite.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

im bored...this last post is not by any means to be taken seriously....and my Klonopin is still making me quite disinhibited...well ive only taken it a couple times, not every day. everything stated previously was meant to be taken in a satirical fashion...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> if we flush all the SSRIs/SNRIs, then the fish and the turtles will injest the water flushed down into the streams....and they will get all agitated and there will be a mass event where fish jump out onto the shores and turtles start eating people.....then the turtle population will shrink by 87% due to their inability to reproduce....and anyone who eats fish will not only get mercury poisoning but also they will get sexual dysfunction, so birth rates will go down all over the world....everyone will stop caring and going to their jobs...and they will go to psychiatrists, saying that they have "apathy" and that they just don't care about anything anymore. and they will get prescribed Prozac. and overall, the world economy will rapidly decay over a period of 4 months until we all go extinct from starvation.
> 
> However, if we flushed all the Wellbutrin down the toilet....the opposite would happen. Fish and Turtle populations would explode. Fish-consuming human pupulations would explode...the rape/violence rate would rise exponetially....divorce rates would plummet, and 40% of all emergency room visits would be due to seizures. The makers of Lunesta/Ambien/Sonata would make profits of 23.5 billion USD in less than 2 months...accidents would quadruple in the morning hours....and we would all die.....lolololol
> 
> i say SSRIs/SNRIs be taken off the market for depression and anxiety, and be replaced by reversible MAO-A inhibitors and other stuff... or there should at least be an upper limit on SSRI/SNRI dosages. Its scary how high doctors will go with treatment-resistant OCD patients....or when someone says its not working for depression, they get upped dosage. But nevertheless, SSRIs did pretty much save my life when i was completely unfunctional due to OCD and depression...so i might be a little bit of a hypocrite.


Hahahahaha dude wtf


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

lol! :flush


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

Lol.....i like construing long winded statements. i mean, part of it might be true... but anyway, it was intended for entertainment purposes. cough


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> if we flush all the SSRIs/SNRIs, then the fish and the turtles will injest the water flushed down into the streams....and they will get all agitated and there will be a mass event where fish jump out onto the shores and turtles start eating people.....then the turtle population will shrink by 87% due to their inability to reproduce....and anyone who eats fish will not only get mercury poisoning but also they will get sexual dysfunction, so birth rates will go down all over the world....everyone will stop caring and going to their jobs...and they will go to psychiatrists, saying that they have "apathy" and that they just don't care about anything anymore. and they will get prescribed Prozac. and overall, the world economy will rapidly decay over a period of 4 months until we all go extinct from starvation.
> 
> However, if we flushed all the Wellbutrin down the toilet....the opposite would happen. Fish and Turtle populations would explode. Fish-consuming human pupulations would explode...the rape/violence rate would rise exponetially....divorce rates would plummet, and 40% of all emergency room visits would be due to seizures. The makers of Lunesta/Ambien/Sonata would make profits of 23.5 billion USD in less than 2 months...accidents would quadruple in the morning hours....and we would all die.....lolololol
> 
> i say SSRIs/SNRIs be taken off the market for depression and anxiety, and be replaced by reversible MAO-A inhibitors and other stuff... or there should at least be an upper limit on SSRI/SNRI dosages. Its scary how high doctors will go with treatment-resistant OCD patients....or when someone says its not working for depression, they get upped dosage. But nevertheless, SSRIs did pretty much save my life when i was completely unfunctional due to OCD and depression...so i might be a little bit of a hypocrite.


We will act like you have never posted that, ok?


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

Medline said:


> We will act like you have never posted that, ok?


Exceptional. no wait that word doesnt work quite right...well if i put it in context, for example, "yesss....this cocaine is exceptionally good, i feel exceptionally awesome". What i mean is -Awesome-. but that word is used too much ?=)


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

His post is just full of awesomeness and lolcakes. :b


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> Epic!! I love it :clap


epic? sweet! i was worried i would be bashed for writing such a post.!


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

Nah it's nice to have some light hearted comments now and then. Everything in this forum section gets a bit too serious at times.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

anti convulsants and stimulants/stimulating drugs/supplements


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Ok, so far we have a consensus on the most effacious drugs for SA:

1) *Dopaminergics*-- but long term use leads to aggrevation and anxiety, perhaps because of downregulation of receptors.

Examples: Selegiline, Adderal, low dose Solian, etc.

2) *Opiates*-- tolerance is a problem

Examples: hyrdos, codeine, morphine

Those two are the only drugs universally agreed upon so far.

Here's my theory: Social Anxiety is a pervasive state of agitation that can be pushed into MANIA with dopaminergic agents and can be calmed by opiates and benzos. In addition people with SA typically experience clinical depression. Bipolar and SA also often go hand in hand. So, I want to encourage people not to seek the mania which is sooooooooo pleasant, but to try antipscyhotics as a sort of experiment.

Agitation needn't be driven to mania or let drive you into a depression, it should be calmed to allow a more normal experience of life. Atypical antipsychotics can do this, as they disrupt the mesolimbic pathway, which includes the amygdala, curing agitation, and increase the density of D2 receptors, which are known to be deficient in SA. Afterall, concentrations of nuerochemicals are known to be not as important as the number and sensitivity of the nuerons themeselves.

I'm going back on risperidone coupled with lexapro to see if this is true for myself. I may also add low dose Solian and Remeron.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jakeforpresident said:


> Ok, so far we have a consensus on the most effacious drugs for SA:
> 
> 1) *Dopaminergics*-- but long term use leads to aggrevation and anxiety, perhaps because of downregulation of receptors.
> 
> ...


1. Tolerance to opiates can be prevented.
2. Amphetamines work because ppl with social anxiety have a much lower binding at the D2 receptor, they fix up the chemical cause its not that amphetamines make you manic.
3. AP's are terrible drugs, they would make you feel slow and antagonize the D2 receptor which allready has a low binding profile in SA ppl. Not knowing what to say is another issue of SA, and AP's will make that even worse.
4. Differend treatments work for differend ppl, imo that is because ppl have a differend neurological cause for their anxiety, opiates and benzo's do not do a thing for me.
5. AP's are not known to be succesfull for SA, they tend to make it worse and ive never seen reports of ppl having succes after stopping one (when they are suposed to have upregulated D2 receptors). 
6. AP's will upregulate the dopamine autoreceptors. Which probably is the reason i've never seen someone benefit of the suposed upregulated D2 binding.

My toughts.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> 1. Tolerance to opiates can be prevented.
> 2. Amphetamines work because ppl with social anxiety have a much lower binding at the D2 receptor, they fix up the chemical cause its not that amphetamines make you manic.
> 3. AP's are terrible drugs, they would make you feel slow and antagonize the D2 receptor which allready has a low binding profile in SA ppl. Not knowing what to say is another issue of SA, and AP's will make that even worse.
> 4. Differend treatments work for differend ppl, imo that is because ppl have a differend neurological cause for their anxiety, opiates and benzo's do not do a thing for me.
> ...


Hmmm, i see.

Still I can't help but wonder:


*http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBV-4TT70YJ-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1108313572&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a1d069440e0da1b051ccf0e7afc28dff*
*http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bps/article/S0006-3223(05)00424-5/abstract*
*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11057521*
o its not entirely clear... but you may be right.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

jakeforpresident said:


> Atypical antipsychotics can do this, as they disrupt the mesolimbic pathway, which includes the amygdala, curing agitation, and increase the density of D2 receptors, which are known to be deficient in SA. Afterall, concentrations of nuerochemicals are known to be not as important as the number and sensitivity of the nuerons themeselves.
> 
> I'm going back on risperidone coupled with lexapro to see if this is true for myself. I may also add low dose Solian and Remeron.


But they increase D2 receptors because they are blocking D2. Consider a person taking a typical dopamine blocker for schizophrenia. If the drug is controlling symptoms, it would overall be antidopaminergic, regardless of if there is some level of upregulation. The same would happen for SA, you might upregulate D2, but you won't get a dopaminergic effect unless maybe if you had some weird schedule like taking a short half life drug every night (probably impractical). I'm not saying antipsychotics won't help SA, though. Aripiprazole is the only one I will take, being an atypical atypical antipsychotic (dopamine partial agonist).


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

euphoria said:


> But they increase D2 receptors because they are blocking D2. Consider a person taking a typical dopamine blocker for schizophrenia. If the drug is controlling symptoms, it would overall be antidopaminergic, regardless of if there is some level of upregulation. The same would happen for SA, you might upregulate D2, but you won't get a dopaminergic effect unless maybe if you had some weird schedule like taking a short half life drug every night (probably impractical). I'm not saying antipsychotics won't help SA, though. Aripiprazole is the only one I will take, being an atypical atypical antipsychotic (dopamine partial agonist).


That's assuming that the causes of schizophrenia are very dissimilar from those of bipolar or even SA. Antipscyhotics pretty much turn off your mesolimbic pathway, which means its disrupting your amygdala and hypthalamus, the sources of fear and remembered fear.

The only thing I could see as a problem is reduced reward, which is ok if everything is too rewarding already, like in mania, or too negatively rewarding (avoidance) like in depression.
Could be a problem if anhedonia is a lack of reward rather than a strong negative reward that one adjusts to.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

THIS STUDY IS AMAZING: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=19040618

basically, 50% of social anxiety was removed by use of quetiapine (an antipsychotic) compared to no improvement in placebo!

very promising


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jakeforpresident said:


> THIS STUDY IS AMAZING: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=19040618
> 
> basically, 50% of social anxiety was removed by use of quetiapine (an antipsychotic) compared to no improvement in placebo!
> 
> very promising


This stuff only made me feel terrible, YMMV tough.

This may be of intrest: (No idea wheter this is true tough, just posting it so you can check it out in case you want to try this drug.)


> ©2009 Google - Map data ©2009 Tele Atlas - Terms of Use
> Documents on Seroquel show drugmaker knew of risks
> 
> By LINDA A. JOHNSON - 14 hours ago
> ...


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## RockiNToM (Jun 15, 2009)

Why are you guys such geeks? honestly...









:b


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

RockiNToM said:


> Why are you guys such geeks? honestly...
> 
> :b


Geek? Hehe your gonna change your mind when you go party with me.


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