# Martial arts: Traditional vs. modern



## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

I have taken Taekwondo classes for a few months now. The better I get to know the people the more I see that the course is essentially about street fighting.

So I have read up on martial arts as a modern sport vs. traditional schools that also teach self-control, ethics and meditation. I was more looking for something like that. I am thinking about changing to a traditional Karate school.

Does anyone have experience in this field? What do you think?


----------



## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

I used to do karate at 3 diff places years ago, also taekwondo (just at 1 place) and its all the same crap..... You after a monk like experience or something ?

maybe look into tai chi ?


----------



## William H (May 4, 2010)

Go to some different ones and see if they are what you are looking for. Ive been doing TKD for about a year and it is focused more on self control and stuff like that, which is why i enjoy it so you could also try a different TKD instructor


----------



## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

You're probably better off with yoga.

If you want to learn how to fight, don't go to tkd or karate. They're pretty much useless.


----------



## MojoCrunch (Mar 25, 2011)

I did kempo at the university I went to and it was something like that. Pretty much felt like a women's self-defense class. Did it for two years or so and I was horrible at it. It seemed more about releasing energy and such (got yelled at for now "ke-yahing" loud enough).

I'd go with what the guy above said. Try yoga. If not you can find a place that does Shaolin which incorporates a lot of the same principles that you seek. I did Shaolin when I was in first grade or so for a little while but I was way too hyperactive for all the stretching and discipline it required.


----------



## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

Lisa said:


> *So I have read up on martial arts as a modern sport vs. traditional schools that also teach self-control, ethics and meditation.* I was more looking for something like that. I am thinking about changing to a traditional Karate school.
> 
> Does anyone have experience in this field? What do you think?


I've tried several martial arts: Kempo, Taekwondo, Krav Maga, & Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Lol none of them taught me much about self-control, ethics, or meditation. You might want to check out Yoga, like what was stated above or Tai-Chi. I don't know too much about them, but they just sound to be more like what you're looking for.

If you want to check out a traditional Karate school or another type of martial art, go ahead and take a free class though, always worth trying out something new to see if it's for you.


----------



## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

VanDamMan said:


> You're probably better off with yoga.
> 
> If you want to learn how to fight, don't go to tkd or karate. They're pretty much useless.


lol, not if you do a real karate art like Goju Ryu or Shotokan. Oh man, that'd be the biggest mistake assuming that. Not at first, but the more you practice, you can maximize force out of literally nothing. Finding an authentic school is extremely hard though, but it's a beautiful martial art.

But I also do agree with yoga though.


----------



## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Learn some jujitsu


----------



## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

yeah, I will look into other things. I actually went to a Yoga class last week, I found it the most boring thing ever.

The reason I asked about self control etc. was that we have a few people on the course who are quite aggressive and who only just manage to hold it in. Or not. Earlier this week I saw how an advanced guy went into a full blown attack on a beginner. We were just supposed to some simple kicks, 20 with each leg. After a few seconds he got into it and suddenly kicked and kicked like a mad man without aiming at all. The beginner went to ground and the trainer stepped in. Everyone was speechless. We were supposed to do simple kicks. Nothing else.

The trainer laughed it off. He then actually told us stories of the fights he has gotten into in bars and places.

Obviously it is a combat sport and you are going to meet some funny people on those courses but, you know, stay in charge of yourself, be aware of when you lose it.

I need a new trainer. I will try out another course this evening if I can manage to get there.


----------



## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

Forgot: here's a link to an interesting study about aggression and self control in traditional vs. modern forms of martial arts

http://kv-ma.com/media/Examination ...n Martial Arts Training on Aggressiveness.pdf


----------



## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> lol, not if you do a real karate art like Goju Ryu or Shotokan. Oh man, that'd be the biggest mistake assuming that. Not at first, but the more you practice, you can maximize force out of literally nothing. Finding an authentic school is extremely hard though, but it's a beautiful martial art.


I agree. Karate has a bad rep because anyone with a bit of martial arts training can buy a black belt and open a school. But real Karate is pretty good.

I would try Tai-Chi before yoga myself, but both are good for body and soul.


----------



## Xande (Jul 18, 2011)

Lisa said:


> yeah, I will look into other things. I actually went to a Yoga class last week, I found it the most boring thing ever.
> 
> I need a new trainer. I will try out another course this evening if I can manage to get there.


Tai Chi may be interesting or a type of Karate. Try out several schools, as the environment can vary from school to school, but as stated above, the problem with most traditional martial arts is that there a lot of fake imitators who just hand out black belts and aren't well trained themselves. Finding a legit traditional martial art school is pretty difficult, that's why I like Brazilian Jiujitsu as it's easier to trace lineage as it's newer. Good luck!


----------



## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Don't take any of that modern crap. If there is a random guy teaching it that can't pronounce anything properly it isn't worth it. If they don't talk about honor, courage, compassion, sincerity, dignity, responsibility, or any other morals it isn't worth it. Modern martial arts or whatever people call them is a disgrace to the Bushido, the ways of the warrior. Or any other cultures they spawned from. I am mainly familiar with Japanese oriented things. Most modern things are gimmicks, and sports for "self-defense". To understand, you must have to live it, it is a philosophy and way of life, anything else is a watered down and recreational and an insult to the culture. In anything real, you will learn to kill your opponent, it is up to you to learn self-control and be disciplined enough not to resort to violence. A sword is an extension of oneself, not a weapon, it is the reflection of the warriors soul. To draw it means to take a life, in a battle there is only victory or death, hesitation will only equal defeat. But to draw that sword shall also stain it's beauty with blood so it should never be drawn unless that commitment is made. No matter what you learn in any type of combat the ideology is similar. Compassion and diplomacy over aggression and violence. Learning to temper one's emotions to find inner peace, balance, and harmony.


----------



## Cuauhtemoc (Jul 22, 2010)

I do brazilian jiu jitsu, as I'm brazilian it's pretty common around here.
It's basically judo but mixed with brazilian culture and more focused on ground fighting instead of throws.
I really enjoy it, it's fun, it keeps me in shape, it's competitive and it helps with self defense(but I never really got into a serious fight, except as some school fights as I child)
Also I like doing the national martial art, it makes me proud to see this art having so much success outside Brazil.


Moreover, everybody I train with is really cool, before I got around my SA, they were pretty much the only guys I talked without problems. When I got into it I was 14, skinny as hell and without much confidence, yet I could hold my own against big 30 year old men, and I kinda of gained their respect.
Yes, I would lose to them, but I could give them trouble.
And after training 10 years with the same guys you become kinda of brothers.


----------



## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Cuauhtemoc said:


> I do brazilian jiu jitsu, as I'm brazilian it's pretty common around here.
> It's basically judo but mixed with brazilian culture and more focused on ground fighting instead of throws.
> I really enjoy it, it's fun, it keeps me in shape, it's competitive and it helps with self defense(but I never really got into a serious fight, except as some school fights as I child)
> Also I like doing the national martial art, it makes me proud to see this art having so much success outside Brazil.
> ...


Wow that's a long time training. You going for the red belt?


----------



## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

maybe you would like Aikido?






I always liked Aikido for some reason. It looks like a good self defense style.


----------



## Cuauhtemoc (Jul 22, 2010)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Wow that's a long time training. You going for the red belt?


Lol, I started as a child, so advance was slow at the time
Before 16 you get different belts, I started with white, got yellow, then orange I think
After 16 I took like 1 year to get to blue belt, and a lot more years to get to purple, where I'm now...
I don't train everyday, I studied chemical engineering(a pretty hard degree) so I didn't have that much time, I have a job and all that...
But who knows, maybe when I'm 50 or 60 I get a red belt, lol!
My big dream is to get a black belt, I know I will never be a champion or anything, but I would like to be an part time instructor maybe, just for fun.
BJJ has given me a lot, I would like to pay back.

Also advance in BJJ is really slow, it's not like tkd where you have 16 years old that are black belts, you really need to dedicate yourself.


----------



## Catherine Cavatica (Feb 2, 2011)

Lisa said:


> I have taken Taekwondo classes for a few months now. The better I get to know the people the more I see that the course is essentially about street fighting.
> 
> So I have read up on martial arts as a modern sport vs. traditional schools that also teach self-control, ethics and meditation. I was more looking for something like that. I am thinking about changing to a traditional Karate school.
> 
> Does anyone have experience in this field? What do you think?


I like Muay Thai Kickboxing:heart:heart I used to train years ago now but really enjoyed it. It doesn't involve meditation or anything like that. It's just a great form of martial arts that I enjoyed when I was younger!!


----------



## Catherine Cavatica (Feb 2, 2011)

VanDamMan said:


> You're probably better off with yoga.
> 
> If you want to learn how to fight, don't go to tkd or karate. They're pretty much useless.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah totally agree, man. I think with karate it's more about the philosophies and the moves LMFAO I've never been a fan of it. Maybe because my mind is ****ed LOL


----------



## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Lisa said:


> Forgot: here's a link to an interesting study about aggression and self control in traditional vs. modern forms of martial arts
> 
> http://kv-ma.com/media/Examination ...n Martial Arts Training on Aggressiveness.pdf


I feel like I totally agree with you (assuming I understand what you're going for) (and I have no experience and nothing to back this up, so anyone can feel free to rip me apart). It seems that, particularly with the rise in popularity of "mixed martial arts", the focus in martial arts training has moved totally to the physical aspect of beating the crap out of whoever is in front of you. Whereas more traditional martial arts training focused not only on the physical aspects, but also on some of the more meditative (? not really sure what word to use, but hopefully you know what i mean) practices of discipline and self control.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was taking martial arts for about 4 months when I was 9, I seem to recall being told that the whole point of learning the art is that you would then try to never use it? Try telling that to some drunken fratboy in a tapout shirt.


----------



## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Zyriel said:


> Don't take any of that modern crap. If there is a random guy teaching it that can't pronounce anything properly it isn't worth it. If they don't talk about honor, courage, compassion, sincerity, dignity, responsibility, or any other morals it isn't worth it. Modern martial arts or whatever people call them is a disgrace to the Bushido, the ways of the warrior. Or any other cultures they spawned from. I am mainly familiar with Japanese oriented things. Most modern things are gimmicks, and sports for "self-defense". To understand, you must have to live it, it is a philosophy and way of life, anything else is a watered down and recreational and an insult to the culture. In anything real, you will learn to kill your opponent, *it is up to you to learn self-control and be disciplined enough not to resort to violence*. A sword is an extension of oneself, not a weapon, it is the reflection of the warriors soul. To draw it means to take a life, in a battle there is only victory or death, hesitation will only equal defeat. But to draw that sword shall also stain it's beauty with blood so it should never be drawn unless that commitment is made. No matter what you learn in any type of combat the ideology is similar. *Compassion and diplomacy over aggression and violence*. Learning to temper one's emotions to find inner peace, balance, and harmony.


Yeah. This is pretty much what I was going for.


----------



## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

zookeeper said:


> I feel like I totally agree with you (assuming I understand what you're going for) (and I have no experience and nothing to back this up, so anyone can feel free to rip me apart). It seems that, particularly with the rise in popularity of "mixed martial arts", the focus in martial arts training has moved totally to the physical aspect of beating the crap out of whoever is in front of you. Whereas more traditional martial arts training focused not only on the physical aspects, but also on some of the more meditative (? not really sure what word to use, but hopefully you know what i mean) practices of discipline and self control.
> 
> And correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was taking martial arts for about 4 months when I was 9, I seem to recall being told that the whole point of learning the art is that you would then try to never use it? Try telling that to some drunken fratboy in a tapout shirt.


There will always be douches that take advantage of others. I actually think when someone is training seriously in combat sports (boxing, MT, BJJ, karate, etc) it can require more self-control and keen perception. Not just outside of training, but sparring or rolling with people of different levels, age, gender, physical size, experience level, and how hard or soft they wanna go. You get thrown in with all different types of people and have to react accordingly.


----------



## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Prodigal Son said:


> There will always be douches that take advantage of others. I actually think when someone is training seriously in combat sports (boxing, MT, BJJ, karate, etc) it can require more self-control and keen perception. Not just outside of training, but sparring or rolling with people of different levels, age, gender, physical size, experience level, and how hard or soft they wanna go. You get thrown in with all different types of people and have to react accordingly.


But I think one of the main purposes of martial arts (and explained well in zyriel's post) is that discipline and self-control apply to so much more than just going to the gym and working out. It's about more than just the physical mechanics of violence and it should encompass many more aspects of your life. Anyone can learn to punch someone in the face and break people's arms, but that's not the point of martial arts.


----------



## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

That is more of a semantics debate though, martial arts isn't just about your notion of honor and self-control either, there is definitely an aspect of fitness and combat that is is a large part of them as well. Plus, there are many different forms of martial arts that would adopt different ideals and values. Not necessarily the romanticized version we see in movies or elsewhere.


----------



## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

zookeeper said:


> I feel like I totally agree with you (assuming I understand what you're going for) (and I have no experience and nothing to back this up, so anyone can feel free to rip me apart). It seems that, particularly with the rise in popularity of "mixed martial arts", the *focus in martial arts training has moved totally to the physical aspect of beating the crap out of whoever is in front of you.* Whereas more traditional martial arts training focused not only on the physical aspects, but also on some of the more meditative (? not really sure what word to use, but hopefully you know what i mean) practices of discipline and self control.
> 
> And correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was taking martial arts for about 4 months when I was 9, *I seem to recall being told that the whole point of learning the art is that you would then try to never use it? *Try telling that to some drunken fratboy in a tapout shirt.


The whole point being not to use it....that was how I remembered it from my childhood. My brother trained for years and always talked about that. But if you think about it then you would have to tell children that. Otherwise they'd bash each other's heads in at the playground. 

The focus of martial arts has shifted.... yes, it seems that way. I rang a Taekwondo school yesterday and the guy on the phone was quite chatty. He told me that Taekwondo is an olympic discipline and that where I am training at they teach the 'olympic style' meaning it is combat only. That makes sense. You couldnt make self control and ethics a part of the olympic games.

So I will try out a traditional place next.



Prodigal Son said:


> That is more of a semantics debate though, martial arts isn't just about your notion of honor and self-control either, there is definitely an aspect of *fitness and combat that is is a large part of them as well.* Plus, there are many different forms of martial arts that would adopt different ideals and values. Not necessarily the romanticized version we see in movies or elsewhere.


Yes, and combat I want to learn. I found a Shotokan Karate school that run a beginner's class from October. I might go there.

Reading everyone's posts and thinking about it I realise that finding the right school is a bit of a process.


----------



## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

mixed martial arts, a lot of those traditional martial arts like karate and kung fu are not really effective against disciplines like muay thai, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing, grappling, etc... This is why it's not really seen in MMA. Those who do specialize in karate have to change it in order to adapt to MMA like Lyoto Machida. Those high flying kicks by Bruce Lee you see in the movies will only make him an easier target, a risky move that simply doesn't work in MMA. He's overrated if you ask me. He was a good martial arts actor but not a professional fighter. He has no record in pro boxing or MMA and those karate tournaments are nothing compared to boxing or MMA. It's not real fighting. Bruce Lee won't stand a chance in pro boxing, somebody like Manny Pacquaio or Floyd Mayweather can seriously hurt this guy without a problem. So he goes to MMA and he doesn't know jiu jitsu, wrestling? What's his takedown defense like? Muay Thai? Bruce Lee= Overrated. Anderson Silva is gifted, he's the one everybody should be talking about.


----------



## jimbo00 (Nov 28, 2010)

Totaly agree.
I didnt want to say it, but glad you did 

In all seriousness, I learnt more (and felt much more confident) from my very first muay thai class than I did from doing a few years of karate.



ShinAkuma said:


> mixed martial arts, a lot of those traditional martial arts like karate and kung fu are not really effective against disciplines like muay thai, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing, grappling, etc... This is why it's not really seen in MMA. Those who do specialize in karate have to change it in order to adapt to MMA like Lyoto Machida. Those high flying kicks by Bruce Lee you see in the movies will only make him an easier target, a risky move that simply doesn't work in MMA. He's overrated if you ask me. He was a good martial arts actor but not a professional fighter. He has no record in pro boxing or MMA and those karate tournaments are nothing compared to boxing or MMA. It's not real fighting. Bruce Lee won't stand a chance in pro boxing, somebody like Manny Pacquaio or Floyd Mayweather can seriously hurt this guy without a problem. So he goes to MMA and he doesn't know jiu jitsu, wrestling? What's his takedown defense like? Muay Thai? Bruce Lee= Overrated. Anderson Silva is gifted, he's the one everybody should be talking about.


----------



## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Cuauhtemoc said:


> Lol, I started as a child, so advance was slow at the time
> Before 16 you get different belts, I started with white, got yellow, then orange I think
> After 16 I took like 1 year to get to blue belt, and a lot more years to get to purple, where I'm now...
> I don't train everyday, I studied chemical engineering(a pretty hard degree) so I didn't have that much time, I have a job and all that...
> ...


Yeah, TKD is too fast of advancement. But I'm glad that you had that love for it and dedication. That's highly respectable that's why I had to ask lol!

But I think that's a good thing, but when I practiced for maybe about 6 months, I got a 2nd tip at the same time this other guy did and I felt like he was much better than me and I didn't deserve it. Makes me anxious to be around because I thought I didn't deserve it and that's part of the reason why I stopped taking BJJ. I felt everyone thought I didn't deserve it. But oh man, I love to roll.


----------



## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

zookeeper said:


> Yeah. This is pretty much what I was going for.


But to realize it is one of the hardest lessons to learn and the ultimate lesson to learn from it. Even those in authentic schools, there were people that gotten into street fights when they were young before they came to this realization. But what you highlighted is pretty much the emphasis of a real, authentic school.


----------



## uffie (May 11, 2010)

ShinAkuma said:


> mixed martial arts, a lot of those traditional martial arts like karate and kung fu are not really effective against disciplines like muay thai, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing, grappling, etc... This is why it's not really seen in MMA. Those who do specialize in karate have to change it in order to adapt to MMA like Lyoto Machida. Those high flying kicks by Bruce Lee you see in the movies will only make him an easier target, a risky move that simply doesn't work in MMA. He's overrated if you ask me. He was a good martial arts actor but not a professional fighter. He has no record in pro boxing or MMA and those karate tournaments are nothing compared to boxing or MMA. It's not real fighting. Bruce Lee won't stand a chance in pro boxing, somebody like Manny Pacquaio or Floyd Mayweather can seriously hurt this guy without a problem. So he goes to MMA and he doesn't know jiu jitsu, wrestling? What's his takedown defense like? Muay Thai? Bruce Lee= Overrated. Anderson Silva is gifted, he's the one everybody should be talking about.


Bruce Lee is not overrated. So what if he was an actor? He practically invented the concept of "mixed martial arts" in a style he developed called jeet kune do; A very functional style of martial arts. He was so much more than an actor. He was a philosopher. If you have ever read any of his quotes, the man had some deep insights. Bruce Lee also had to defend himself for teaching martial arts to non Chinese individuals. He was also the pinnacle of fitness. He was at the top tier of human limits. Bruce Lee has accomplished more in his life than any of those guys you mentioned put together will ever. Im positive those guys wouldn't be able to touch Bruce Lee in a fight.

the man was an innovator


----------



## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

ShinAkuma said:


> mixed martial arts, a lot of those traditional martial arts like karate and kung fu are not really effective against disciplines like muay thai, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing, grappling, etc... This is why it's not really seen in MMA. Those who do specialize in karate have to change it in order to adapt to MMA like Lyoto Machida. Those high flying kicks by Bruce Lee you see in the movies will only make him an easier target, a risky move that simply doesn't work in MMA. He's overrated if you ask me. He was a good martial arts actor but not a professional fighter. He has no record in pro boxing or MMA and those karate tournaments are nothing compared to boxing or MMA. It's not real fighting. Bruce Lee won't stand a chance in pro boxing, somebody like Manny Pacquaio or Floyd Mayweather can seriously hurt this guy without a problem. So he goes to MMA and he doesn't know jiu jitsu, wrestling? What's his takedown defense like? Muay Thai? Bruce Lee= Overrated. Anderson Silva is gifted, he's the one everybody should be talking about.


It's because you don't know what real Karate is, you only assume what it is because you never seen it. Lyoto strikes are Karate influenced and as you saw, they are devastating. In the form of Goju Ryu, there are only 3 kicks. Front kick, a side kick where you take out someones knee, but it's a low kick and a stomp on the ground. That's it. Shotokan has an additional side-kick but that's it. There are no high flying kicks and **** like that. True Karate is primarily about moving from blocks to strikes in the most efficient manner possible.


----------



## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> But to realize it is one of the hardest lessons to learn and the ultimate lesson to learn from it. Even those in authentic schools, there were people that gotten into street fights when they were young before they came to this realization. But what you highlighted is pretty much the emphasis of a real, authentic school.


I think, for me, the biggest thing I see with a lot of modern training is that they're teaching the how, but not the why. And I think you're very much right, it's much harder to learn how _not_ to bash someone's face in than to learn how to. I'd like to think that if I knew how I would be all calm and restrained and ****, but I'm not so sure.

And, I'm sure there are a lot more place that are still teaching this than it initially appears. Unfortunately, not starting fights isn't quite as noticeable and being a confrontational ufc wannabe.



Lisa said:


> But if you think about it then you would have to tell children that. Otherwise they'd bash each other's heads in at the playground.


Hee hee! I never thought of it that way! God, I was so gullible!

And as for which style is "better" I'm not sure it really matters. Outside of organized competitions, what are the chances that you're going to be fighting someone who has much (if any) training? Ideally, if you've both been trained properly, never.


----------



## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

uffie said:


> Bruce Lee is not overrated. So what if he was an actor? He practically invented the concept of "mixed martial arts" in a style he developed called jeet kune do; A very functional style of martial arts. He was so much more than an actor. He was a philosopher. If you have ever read any of his quotes, the man had some deep insights. Bruce Lee also had to defend himself for teaching martial arts to non Chinese individuals. He was also the pinnacle of fitness. He was at the top tier of human limits. Bruce Lee has accomplished more in his life than any of those guys you mentioned put together will ever. Im positive those guys wouldn't be able to touch Bruce Lee in a fight.
> 
> the man was an innovator


he was a good speaker with good martial arts movies who was also good in martial arts, lacks wrestling, jiu jitsu, grappling, he is far from mixed martial arts, royce gracie would easily submit this guy, it's not even funny. Anderon Silva is also a fan of Spiderman, he says he read many comics as a kid and still continues to do so.


----------



## uffie (May 11, 2010)

ShinAkuma said:


> he was a good speaker with good martial arts movies who was also good in martial arts, lacks wrestling, jiu jitsu, grappling, he is far from mixed martial arts, royce gracie would easily submit this guy, it's not even funny. Anderon Silva is also a fan of Spiderman, he says he read many comics as a kid and still continues to do so.


You got it wrong. He was great at martial arts who was also good in movies. Bruce Lee's style isn't meant for competition use. He wasnt into combat fighting. He was into real self defense. He would kick to the groin, bite, eye pokes ect. Jeet Kune Do does contain some elements of grappling in it. In a real fight Bruce Lee would end it in less than 10 seconds with quick strikes. Just because someone competes in a combat doesn't mean they cant be beat in a street fight. If Yip Man were still alive, he'd be able to destroy any of them in less than 5 seconds.

Bruce Lee had grappling moves


----------



## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

uffie said:


> If Yip Man were still alive, he'd be able to destroy any of them in less than 5 seconds.


:|


----------



## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

> he was a good speaker with good martial arts movies who was also good in martial arts, lacks wrestling, jiu jitsu, grappling, he is far from mixed martial arts, royce gracie would easily submit this guy, it's not even funny.


I don't want to come off as a BL fan but the first martial art he trained in was wing chun (Ip Man lineage). Wing chun has grappling elements worked into it. The truth is Royce Gracie was good at what he did. But that doesn't mean that every idiot with a BJJ black belt is necessarily going to be able to handle a real situation. BJJ has it's strengths but it lacks any real striking. It also puts too much onis on submissions. That's fine in a ring sport but not in real life.

To answer the OP; The whole business about morality and ethics in martial arts appears more in fiction than it does in real life. Perhaps you should read a little philosophy for that side of things. Yoga is good for conditioning your body and relaxing your mind(and vice versa I guess). Infact it forms the basis of shaolin kung fu. Tai chi is also good and it has the added bonus of also being a martial art. That is if you learn it as a martial art. Infact I would avoid any tai chi instructor who is NOT teaching it as a martial art. The conditioning of the body(and thus the health benefits) is integral to the power of the martial applications, therefor if it is not being taught as a martial art the instructor doesn't necessarily understand the concepts.

Tai chi does take a long time to master so for self defence in the mean time TKD is fine. But if you do not feel comfortable in the environment that it is being taught do not go there. Finding a decent martial arts class isn't so easy but there are a few things to consider. There should be a lot of emphasis on basic conditioning and drills? These are important for both strength, agility and reaction time. The instructor should be humble and friendly but demonstrably competent. So too should the black belts. There should be no air of competitiveness or aggression, however they should be able to help you garner your own aggression because that is essencial in a self defence situation. You don't want to see a load of kids with black belts. A black belt shouldn't be easy to achieve. At the same time there should not be too many grades before black belt - that probabaly means they are overly interested in your cash. Also there should not be too many degrees of black belt, like 16 or whatever - this is a sure sign of bullshido. It is also a good idea if they teach weapons - because you never know 

I would also consider judo to be a good addition. Although judo is pretty much a competition art it is generally hardcore and when you exchange soft mats for hard concrete the techniques are devastating. Any other striking art would be fine with that. Traditional ju jitsu is great for self defence and has all the grappling and ground fighting but it is not so easy to find a really good club. If you can fantastic. I don't know much about BJJ but it is based on judo so it is probably just as good for grappling but I think maybe too much focus on submission holds.

Again, if you seek enlightenment the dojo is probably not the best place to go...


----------



## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Lisa said:


> So I have read up on martial arts as a modern sport vs. traditional schools that also teach self-control, ethics and meditation. I was more looking for something like that. I am thinking about changing to a traditional Karate school.


Some people suggested Yoga here. I think Yoga is great for relaxation etc.

Martial arts on the other hand is good for both self-confidence and relaxation.

You are not interested in fighting of course, but still knowing that you can protect yourself should be a nice feeling imho.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Personally, I wouldn't do any martial arts past its use for exercise. Devoting my whole life to some martial art, becoming cocky and talk **** once (most likely triggered in self-defense and influenced by a false sense of confidence), have a gun pulled on you. In an instant your whole waste of life learning to defend yourself does jack to a 9mm bullet flying at your chest.

However when used to improve overall health (mental and physical) through exercise or to learn to channel anger through a controlled means of self-control, etc, can be definitely beneficial for anyone and is worth the investment within reason.


----------



## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

proximo20 said:


> Some people suggested Yoga here. I think Yoga is great for relaxation etc.
> 
> Martial arts on the other hand is good for both *self-confidence and relaxation. *
> 
> You are not interested in fighting of course, but still *knowing that you can protect yourself should be a nice feeling imho.*


Exactly 



Dr House said:


> Personally, I wouldn't do any martial arts past its use for exercise. Devoting my whole life to some martial art, becoming cocky and talk **** once (most likely triggered in self-defense and influenced by a false sense of confidence), have a gun pulled on you. In an instant your whole waste of life learning to defend yourself does jack to a 9mm bullet flying at your chest.
> 
> However when *used to improve overall health (mental and physical)* *through exercise *or to learn to *channel anger* through a controlled means of self-control, etc, *can be definitely beneficial for anyone and is worth the investment* within reason.


That is pretty much my thinking behind it.


----------

