# Who knows Remeron?



## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I am supposed to start taking Remeron. First 15mg and then raise to 30mg. However after reading the leaflet I'm not very enthusiastic anymore. The side effect list is pretty long and under often it has stuff like fainting. 
And what also sucks big time is that you obviously cannot combined Remeron with SSRI or benzos. It says that this can lead to a serotonine syndrome. 
I'm really not happy about this. Knowing that I couldn't take a benzo if I needed doesn't feel good.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

I've come accross a lot of people that use it with ssri's and benzos, never heard of a problem. It's very popular to use with effexor.
If you have a look on wiki it mentions it's ok, that includes links to proper medical studies incase you are worried about wiki's credibility.

quote"
Mirtazapine in combination with an SSRI, SNRI, or TCA as an augmentation strategy is considered to be relatively safe and is often employed therapeutically,[39][42][82][83][84] with a combination of venlafaxine and mirtazapine sometimes referred to as "California rocket fuel".[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirtazapine#cite_note-pmid10333982-38


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

thundercats said:


> is that you obviously cannot combined Remeron with SSRI. It says that this can lead to a serotonine syndrome.


You'd have to take very high overdoses of both to get this. I know many people that have taken the two together, myself included and it's perfectly fine.

I've taken doses of Remeron between 1.75mg up to 45mg. The only side effects I've experienced that are consistent with every dose are extreme sedation, increased appetite, and vasodilation. Depending on the person those could be good things or bad things. The higher doses made me even more tired and also made me very irritable and anger prone. There is also a hangover effect of sluggishness and brain fog for the next day, but that varies and for some people goes away. If it doesn't it can be combated with an activating med.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah, remeron isn't a big deal, shouldn't obsess too hard about it. 

What it will make you do is sleep a lot and eat a lot. It works well on depression as well, but it didn't work on anxiety for me.

It is I believe the strongest antagonist of histamine receptors. So stronger than amitryptiline, doxepin, imipramine, all of them.

It's even stronger than trazodone if I remember the affinity tables correctly for histamine values.

You will not get serotonin syndrome either. I don't believe it is extremely powerful on 5-HT receptors. So seriously, I wouldn't worry about that at all.

Now get some sleep.

** btw, if this doesn't help with insomnia (if you have it) there is a good chance that not many of the other drugs will, because this is like a horse tranq.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

I :heart Remeron.

The only side effects I experienced were increased appetite and a little drowsiness during the first week or so. This stuff really helped with my insomnia though. I don't know if this is normal or not, but I also often had very pleasant dreams when I was taking it... including lucid dreams.

If you're going on a low dosage, I think the only thing you have to worry about is the increased appetite (if you gain weight easily).


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Hello,
thanks for your input.

I worry because it says that weight gain happens very frequent under Remeron. I am already overweight and this also depresses me a lot. I must not gain more weight I'm already heavier than ever before. I actually needed to go on a diet but I'm too demotivated and depressed to carry this out.
How does the weight gain happen? Do you eat more than usual or does it slow down your metabolism and you become fat even if you eat normal?

And what also worries me is that from what I read Remeron is mostly a sleeping aid and not good as antidepressant. But my problems are depression and anxiety.

And what also worries me is that it says it must not be combined with a tranquilizer. This feels like a huge disadvantage to me. What if I'm in a situation where I needed to be sedated and then can't because I take Remeron?

It also says it must be taken always at the same time. This is a problem because I don't go to bed at the same time every day. Bedtimes may vary a few hours, is this a problem?

What's also weird is that the leaflet says you can also take it in the morning + the evening. But if this stuff makes you so tired then how can you take it in the morning?


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

You'd think that if you took remeron with ritilin it would kill the appetite problem anyone try this? Does remeron lower bloodpressure and how does it effect the sexdrive? I kinda wanted too try this one but i didn't want too go thur bad withdraws.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

What do you mean with bad withdrawals? Does Remeron cause withdrawals?

I read that some users report restless leg syndrome at night while taking it. This would also suck. Has anyone also had this? If this occurs then does it happen right away when you take it or also all of a sudden? I don't want to start with a new substance which could cause side effects which occur later. If I start something new I need to know if it works or not.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

As far as gaining weight goes, I gained 65 pounds in under a year on the stuff. I was already 30 pounds under my normal weight, so figure I gained about 35 pounds additional weight that I've never had before. For me though I welcomed the weight since I needed it.

The hunger experienced while on the med is pretty extreme. I'd eat anything and everything and lots of it. Taking Wellbutrin with it helped slightly. Though Wellbutrin & Adderall with it did completely stop the cravings.

From what you say though it sounds like maybe this isn't your best option. It's great for insomniacs and in high doses for quick relief of severe suicidal depression. But for everyday functioning there are much better options.

Bupropion kicks depression in the ***, but it gives additional anxiety so Paroxetine or Trileptal go very good with it as they take the edge off. Then there's always Effexor. For many people it's their saving grace, and for many others they hate it. And coming off of it is brutal.

I never got restless legs with it. Also with every med I've tried, Remeron is a walk in the park as far as coming off of it goes. At least in my experience.

As for sexual sides, I found it to have a positive effect. In no way did it act like SSRI's. At 30mg+ I'd say it enhanced the general libido just a tad, but "in the moment" sex experiences were definitely more enhanced, greater blood flow, more intensity, & energy/stamina in the moment, etc.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't want effexor for the mentioned reasons. 
I have already tried celexa without success.

What shall I do now? Shall I try remeron for 2-3 weeks and then decide wether to stay on it or not? One thing is clear I absolutely cannot afford gaining more weight and I also have to be focused during the day in order to work. Being tired all day is also not an option. 
Actually if it had been up to me I'd have suggested either trying another SNRI but not effexor or trying Prozac but the doc suggested Remeron. :|


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## Sumguy7 (May 15, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> ** btw, if this doesn't help with insomnia (if you have it) there is a good chance that not many of the other drugs will, because this is like a horse tranq.


I disagree. The sedating effect wears off quickly, and it's more of an an energy-draining sedation than a sleep-inducing one, almost like you just sprinted around a track. It's no match for Ambien or Lunesta in getting to sleep.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

thundercats said:


> IOne thing is clear I absolutely cannot afford gaining more weight and I also have to be focused during the day in order to work. Being tired all day is also not an option.


Given these priorities of yours you. You might want to rethink. Just my personal opinion. Remeron is pretty notorious for those things. Your doc should very well know that too. I would go back in and tell the doc what you learned online and say flat out you will not be taking this med and that someone in your family recommended "insert something else here" as it works for them. Or just ask his/her advice on something else. Maybe Cymbalta or Prozac. Or Bupropion with an SSRI. If they are unwilling to work with you, then just say ok thanks I'm leaving now. Then they'll either work with you when they see they have lost you, or you just go find a new doc that will.

But you never know, everyone is different.



gilmourr said:


> because this is like a horse tranq.


Agreed. The stuff is potent.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

thundercats said:


> Hello,
> thanks for your input.
> 
> I worry because it says that weight gain happens very frequent under Remeron. I am already overweight and this also depresses me a lot. I must not gain more weight I'm already heavier than ever before. I actually needed to go on a diet but I'm too demotivated and depressed to carry this out.
> ...


As far as I know, the weight gain comes from the increased appetite - you'll probably feel hungry and eat more often. As for your other question - yes, to my knowledge Remeron is generally used to treat sleep disorders. From what I've heard, it isn't effective for treating depression. My doc told me it wouldn't do anything at all for the anxiety.

I believe Remeron is supposed taken at the same time every night because it's usually used to regulate a person's sleeping schedule. If you take it too late, you'll still feel drowsy in the morning. That being said, I never took it at exactly the same time every night and I didn't have any bad experiences. You should definitely speak to your doctor/mental health professional about your concerns though.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

That sucks.
I directly asked if this is only for sleep and he said no its an AD but i also read it's mostly for sleep. The doc also knows that i have to work during the day. I also know someone who also takes it an he said it doesnt do much against depression. 

But i also read somewhere that mirtazapine is supposed to be a strong AD and better than SSRI which seems weird to me.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

SSRIs are supposed to be good for treating depression. But I had much more unpleasant side effects when I was on those. Remeron is nothing compared to some of the side effects of SSRIs. But everyone reacts differently. You could try it out for a week and see how you're feeling. It's not hard at all to come off of Remeron anyway. No withdrawal symptoms whatsoever in my experience.

But yeah, Remeron is mostly for insomnia, unless you're taking a really high dose. But then, why not just prescribe an SSRI? :con

Did you mention that you have trouble sleeping? That might be why your doc prescribed this.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

No i told him i have no trouble sleeping.

mirtazapine seems to act different in different doses.

Mirtazapine has a low affinity for muscarinic, cholinergic and dopaminergic
receptors and does not inhibit dopamine reuptake (De Boer et al., 1988). Therefore,
it is not surprising that anticholinergic (disturbance of accommodation,
obstipation, dry mouth, and urinary retention) and dopaminergic side effects did
not occur in the present study. The acute sedative effects of administration of 15
mg mirtazapine which could be demonstrated in each subject can be explained
by its antihistaminergic effects. Mirtazapine has a high affinity for histamine H1
receptors (De Boer et al., 1988).* The observation that the sedative effects of
mirtazapine are more pronounced in lower doses (15 mg:day) than in higher
doses (30-60 mg:day) can probably put down to the activation of the noradrenergic
system caused by mirtazapine, which has an arousal effect and is more
extensive in higher doses. Thus, the a2-receptor-mediated alerting effect may
functionally compensate for the anti-histamine-related sedative potential of mirtazapine
at higher doses (De Boer, 1995).*


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Could you take remeron as needed for sleep? Do you need too have it build up in your system too have an effect? Sorry for all the questions i'd like too try this one i think.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

GotAnxiety said:


> Could you take remeron as needed for sleep? Do you need too have it build up in your system too have an effect? Sorry for all the questions i'd like too try this one i think.


I do. The sedative effects work the first time you take it. You'll sleep like a rock and have awesome dreams.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

beaches09 said:


> I do. The sedative effects work the first time you take it. You'll sleep like a rock and have awesome dreams.


+1 on the awesome dreams part.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

beaches09 said:


> The hunger experienced while on the med is pretty extreme. I'd eat anything and everything and lots of it. Even taking Wellbutrin with it didn't curb the appetite at all. Though Wellbutrin & Adderall with it did completely stop the cravings.


I've heard it's not uncommon for psychiatrists to add Topamax to another notorious appetite increasing/weight gaining med known as Zyprexa to reverse these side effects, so perhaps Topamax would help to curb the weight gain associated with remeron too.


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## wunderbez (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm on Remeron (mirtaz) at the moment. 30mg at night.

I find it doesn't make me sleepy, its just like a man in my head tells me its time for bed. I'm a real pain in the arse to get out of bed now, but before I'd be up all hours cause I couldn't sleep.

My anxiety is still on the HIGH side so I'll be hoping to get changed to something else or augment.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

How does your body feel physically after taking remeron the next day do you feel well rested besides the tireness? Do you have any weakness? What about pain muscular tension or migraines?


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

I did not even gain weight on Remeron, although I slept a lot.


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## Hypo (Mar 16, 2012)

I've been on Remeron since 2001 and combined it with various SSRI's and Effexor. Right now I'm combining it with Prozac 10mg. I also take Xanax a couple of times a week. No serotonine syndrome for me...


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

sometimes I'm tempted to augment prozac with full dosage of remeron but I'm afraid it could negatively affect my mood and anxiety.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

But I'd still be scared of combining Remeron with a SSRI even if others do it with success. I mean just because it works for others doesn't mean it also works for everyone. 

If this stuff makes getting up early even harder then it's not for me. I already have a hard time getting up and I'm in a really bad mood in the morning. I worry that Remeron makes you even more sleepy and then you feel even more like **** in the morning.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

You will. I slept at least 12h a day on that stuff.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Actually some studies have stipulated that Mirtazapine can be what prevents you from achieving serotonin syndrome in cases where you take a powerful SSRI like Zoloft. In fact that is exactly the combo I am taking, 200mg Zoloft and 45mg remeron. It is usually used for major depressive disorder. I think they both balance each other out as I get absolutely no side effects. No hunger, no weight issues, no sexual issues. I can't think of a single side effect I have encountered. Mirtazapine did cause initial sedation but that went away eventually and while it still makes me uber relaxed at night and helps me fall asleep, I wake up refreshed. I take the mirtazapine at night 2 hours before bed and then I take Zoloft with breakfast.

Here's one that augments mirtazapine to current antidepressant regimen. It doesn't matter which antidepressant is being used it invokes a better response.



> *A double-blind, placebo-controlled study of antidepressant augmentation with mirtazapine.*
> Biol Psychiatry 2002 Jan 15;51(2):183-8
> "26 adult outpatients with persistent major depression despite adequate antidepressant monotherapy were randomized to receive 4 weeks of mirtazapine or placebo augmentation. Mirtazapine was begun at 15 mg at bedtime, with possible titration to 30 mg at bedtime per physician's discretion after week 1. RESULTS: Categorical positive response rate at end point was 64% for active drug and 20% for placebo. Remission rates were 45.4% and 13.3% for active drug and placebo groups, respectively, Mirtazapine demonstrated statistically significant superiority to placebo on most major outcome measures, and was associated with improvement in overall functioning and quality of life. There were no significant group differences with regard to emergent side effects, weight change, or serum concentrations of primary antidepressants."


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

But what if you cannot sleep 12 hours and have to get up after 6 hours? Will you even be able to get out of bed? Damn. I'm really scared to take this when I have to get up early the next morning.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> You will. I slept at least 12h a day on that stuff.


Yah I noticed that at first as well. It took a couple of months to balance out. I'm at a point where I typically sleep 8 hours a night. It's possible that Zoloft balances this out as I hear people complain they have sleeping troubles while taking Zoloft.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't have access to the full text but if anyone does and can attach a pdf document, that would be awesome.

Pharmacopsychiatry. 1996 Mar;29(2):81.
*Mirtazapine as treatment for serotonin syndrome.*

Hoes MJ, Zeijpveld JH.
PMID:8741027[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

External link. Please review our privacy policy.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

If you really want to, of course you can get up after 6h of sleep. But Remeron will not make this any easier, let's keep it at that


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

GotAnxiety said:


> How does your body feel physically after taking remeron the next day do you feel well rested besides the tireness? Do you have any weakness? What about pain muscular tension or migraines?


I wake feeling very rested as if having a fantastic night of sleep. There is no weakness, just an initial lazy/sluggishness. You can work around it by setting your alarm 1 hour before you intend to get out of bed and pop a caffeine pill then go back to sleep. When the alarm goes off an hour later, you'll be good to go. Or just roll out of bed and drink some coffee or anything. You get used to it after a while.



thundercats said:


> But I'd still be scared of combining Remeron with a SSRI even if others do it with success. I mean just because it works for others doesn't mean it also works for everyone.


It's fine, tons of people do it. Docs wouldn't often prescribe it if it was so dangerous.



thundercats said:


> If this stuff makes getting up early even harder then it's not for me. I already have a hard time getting up and I'm in a really bad mood in the morning. I worry that Remeron makes you even more sleepy and then you feel even more like **** in the morning.





thundercats said:


> But what if you cannot sleep 12 hours and have to get up after 6 hours? Will you even be able to get out of bed? Damn. I'm really scared to take this when I have to get up early the next morning.


I'm not sure why you are still considering this med. It sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into it, when the evidence shows Remeron in general is going to do exactly what you don't want.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

The problem is I can't go back to the doc in a few weeks and then say I didn't take it. He'll be offended. If I take it and then feel crappy on it then I can at least say I took it and it didn't work. And then there's also the chance that it might work for me. But unless I try it out I cannot know it. I think I have to try it and even if it's only to find out that it doesn't work then at least I know it doesn't work and can try to find something else but if I never take a med then I also cannot gain new insights on which med might work for me.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

True that. Try it out, you never know.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

The problem is most people don't give remeron a chance for long enough. I had the drowsiness problem and it went away, it took time. It seems to exhibit less effect at the histamine receptors as time goes on. Now if you take it in the morning, you will definitely be affected. If you take it at night by morning time you should be fine once you have adapted to it. You really want to take it at the exact same time on a daily basis.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

By all means, do try it. You must never not try something because someone on the internet had experience x.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Alright! final question for 500 points! Does remeron give you a buzz or body high? And do you lose your mind when you come off of it? ;p


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

GotAnxiety said:


> Alright! final question for 500 points! Does remeron give you a buzz or body high? And do you lose your mind when you come off of it? ;p


When I was on it in combination with low dose Selegiline it did. When I would pop the 30mg pills at night about 30 minutes later I would get an intense warm fuzzy feeling all over my body and mind. It was a magnificent feeling and it would last 30-60 minutes or so and I would get super relaxed and start daydreaming fantasies in my head, they were very visual, happy, full of confidence, and soothing. Much different from a typical daydream. It was like a pure happy, calm, confident, content, slow motion, fantasy land. And then I would rapidly drift off into sleep.

It was about 2-4 weeks into that particular trial before I started getting those feelings. And the feeling continued with every dose that I took during the whole trial on it which was probably 3-4 months. I never got the same feeling when taking either of those meds separately in different trials though so it must have been the combo. But you never know.

For the most part I was able to quit 30-45mg Mirtazapine cold without any noticeable withdrawals. I've been on and off it a few times. There was one time after quitting when I was left with an empty type feeling that lasted for maybe a week, but I had also stopped taking something else at the time, so I chalked that up to the other med, or both. It totally weak though compared to coming off anything else. Some people though have reported unpleasant withdrawals, but from what I've seen that seems to be more rare.

Now I just take 3.75-7.5mg as needed at night to fall asleep because my Bupropion would keep me awake for days otherwise.

The Mirtazapine is great stuff if you're looking to sleep like a baby, and it also helps a great deal with general anxiety. At least in my case.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Thank you guy's for replying to my question's im really stoked about trying remeron like thundercats said right you will never know unless you try it. i'll be taking it with dexedrine and maybe with or without wellbutrin there studies saying that wellbutrin occupy the site where amp's work so it might be pointless mixing those two. Sound's like remeron alot like marajauna minus the disocialated side effects and it in pill form.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm surprised that even 3 mg of Remeron are supposed to make you sleepy.
If 3 mg make you sleep then how about people taking 30mg or more? 
Is anyone here who has experimented with really low doses (below 15mg) and also doses above 30mg? One article said that in low doses it makes you tired while in doses over 30mg it has other effects. 

And can you split the tablets? My tablets contain 15mg but they look as if they can be split in the middle is this allowed? 

But what sucks is that I might have to get a MRI scan and I can't do this without a tranquilizer injection. I think the injection contains 2mg lorazepam.
But I don't know if I can get the injection when I'm taking Remeron. In the leaflet it says it must not be combined with tranquilizers.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

It's no problem getting a tranquilizer while on Remeron. The tablets are splittable yes. The tiredness IMO doesn't change much, if at all, in differing doses. I didn't really notice a difference between 15mg or 45mg as far as sedation is concerned.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I've read about remeron in other boards and nearly all people who took it say that it's not good and totally knocks you out and makes you become fat.
I know that sometimes a drug works for some but not for others but when I only look at the known side effects it's totally what I don't need. I rather needed something which is strong against fear and depression, which doesn't cause tiredness and weight gain and addiction and is combinable with benzos.
I'm really not that keen anymore on trying it. But if I dont try it and only dismiss antidepressants but what I read about them then I also don't really gain new knowledge.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah Remeron is one of those ones that effects most people very similarly.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

thundercats said:


> I've read about remeron in other boards and nearly all people who took it say that it's not good and totally knocks you out and makes you become fat.
> I know that sometimes a drug works for some but not for others but when I only look at the known side effects it's totally what I don't need. I rather needed something which is strong against fear and depression, which doesn't cause tiredness and weight gain and addiction and is combinable with benzos.
> I'm really not that keen anymore on trying it. But if I dont try it and only dismiss antidepressants but what I read about them then I also don't really gain new knowledge.


Do you think that the people that are not gaining weight and it works for are going on the internet to talk about it? Usually not. Otherwise, man, my fridge was supposed to break ages ago according to the internet. I haven't gained any weight from it, nor do I get the insane cravings people talk about. I'm on 45mg. To listen to people on the internet would be a real disservice for someone wanting to try a new drug that could possibly help them. My brother farts like crazy from beans but I don't. But If I assumed that I would also fart like crazy from them I would have never tried beans.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

That is true of course.
But what also intimidates me a bit is that this drug makes people so sleepy. That's already a pretty huge disadvantage. 
What if for example you have to take a large dose in order to get the desired AD effect for example 60mg but then the dose is so high that it would also make you totally sleepy right? But what if you simply can't afford to be sleepy? In my opinion an AD shouldn't make you sleepy it should only make you non-depressed. If I want to get sleepy I rather take an additional sleeping pill.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

What that warm and fuzzy feeling oxcytonin? The love hormone?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

thundercats said:


> That is true of course.
> But what also intimidates me a bit is that this drug makes people so sleepy. That's already a pretty huge disadvantage.
> What if for example you have to take a large dose in order to get the desired AD effect for example 60mg but then the dose is so high that it would also make you totally sleepy right? But what if you simply can't afford to be sleepy? In my opinion an AD shouldn't make you sleepy it should only make you non-depressed. If I want to get sleepy I rather take an additional sleeping pill.


I'm confused, have you not even started the drug? There shouldn't be a big difference in being tired whether you're on 15 mg or 45 mg I believe. I'm fairly certain that it antagonizes histamine receptors greatly on a low dose, so there is not much of an increased effect if you up the dose. Which is why I felt the same on 7.5, 15 and 30 mg. You don't know if it will make you tired because you do not know how you will react to histamine antagonism.

Try it out on a Friday and by Sunday if you're passed out still there is a good chance you probably will not be able to use it. The tiredness gets a bit better but it definitely didn't go away for me after 7 weeks.

If AD's could just make you happy with no side effects, then that would be a cash cow. Unfortunately SSRI's are the most selective, while things like TCA and tetra cyclics like remeron aren't.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

No I haven't started taking it yet. I thought about trying a tiny dose first maybe 3.75mg but now I'm not sure if 3.75mg don't knock you out exactly as 15mg would. 

I also can't afford to be tired and feel like crap the whole day for a long time. If this side effect vanished after a few days then I could accept it but I can't take it for weeks and wait if it goes away.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

thundercats said:


> No I haven't started taking it yet. I thought about trying a tiny dose first maybe 3.75mg but now I'm not sure if 3.75mg don't knock you out exactly as 15mg would.
> 
> I also can't afford to be tired and feel like crap the whole day for a long time. If this side effect vanished after a few days then I could accept it but I can't take it for weeks and wait if it goes away.


Then definitely do not try this drug. There's a very strong chance that you'll be sedated. It also made me very slow mentally, I was reading like a page of text every 3 hours. I really doubt that you'll avoid the sedation of the glorified tranquilizer known as remeron.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

My doc said if i should feel tired the first 3 days then i should keep taking it as if this would go away. does it not go away? damn. i start to question if there is an AD out there which works at all most testimonies i read are negative. i only read where people are taking all kinds of things and get all kinds of side effects. this is very discouraging. only very few positive testimonies.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

i just found a list of possible side effects which is much longer than the one in the leaflet. i think remeron is relatively safe but this list is really scary it even has stuff like heart attacks. 
with so many possible side effects how can you take it and not worry all the time when something feels weird and then think it could be a side effect? 

http://www.rxlist.com/remeron-drug/side-effects-interactions.htm



> Events are further categorized by body system and listed in order of decreasing frequency according to the following definitions: frequent adverse events are those occurring on 1 or more occasions in at least 1/100 patients; infrequent adverse events are those occurring in 1/100 to 1/1000 patients; rare events are those occurring in fewer than 1/1000 patients. Only those events not already listed in Table 4 appear in this listing. Events of major clinical importance are also described in the WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS sections.
> *Body as a Whole*: _frequent_: malaise, abdominal pain, abdominal syndrome acute; _infrequent_: chills, fever, face edema, ulcer, photosensitivity  reaction, neck rigidity, neck pain, abdomen enlarged; rare: cellulitis, chest pain substernal.
> *Cardiovascular System*: _frequent_: hypertension, vasodilatation; _infrequent_: angina pectoris, myocardial infarction, bradycardia, ventricular extrasystoles, syncope, migraine, hypotension; rare: atrial arrhythmia, bigeminy, vascular headache, pulmonary embolus, cerebral ischemia, cardiomegaly, phlebitis, left heart failure.
> *Digestive System*: _frequent_: vomiting, anorexia; _infrequent_: eructation, glossitis, cholecystitis, nausea and vomiting, gum hemorrhage, stomatitis, colitis, liver function tests abnormal; _rare_: tongue discoloration, ulcerative stomatitis, salivary gland enlargement, increased salivation, intestinal obstruction, pancreatitis, aphthous stomatitis, cirrhosis of liver, gastritis, gastroenteritis, oral moniliasis, tongue edema.
> ...


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

thundercats said:


> i just found a list of possible side effects which is much longer than the one in the leaflet. i think remeron is relatively safe but this list is really scary it even has stuff like heart attacks.
> with so many possible side effects how can you take it and not worry all the time when something feels weird and then think it could be a side effect?
> 
> http://www.rxlist.com/remeron-drug/side-effects-interactions.htm


You definitely need to chill the **** out. Monotherapy (using one drug) is not going to kill you. Especially not remeron.

These drugs affect neurotransmitters, serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, acetylcholine, histamine etc. Of course changing concentrations will lead to effects. That's what you want.

Your doctor is definitely wrong about only 3 days of sedation if you are on anything higher then 15 mg. My doc said the weekend and the sedation would wear off. Yeah, no way. As long as you keep taking the meds, it will continuously cause antihistamine effects causing sedation.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Those are probably mostly rare side effects still 1/1000 or 1/100 odds that not too bad.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

On some of the notes of oversleeping, I've recently started taking an NRI. Since doing so I am unable to sleep more than 5-6 hours a night even while taking Mirtazapine to fall asleep. Also I wake refreshed feeling like I slept 11-12 hours. Kick ***


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

gilmourr said:


> You definitely need to chill the **** out. Monotherapy (using one drug) is not going to kill you. Especially not remeron.


Hopefully nobody shows him the studies & statistics of the numerous dangers/pesticides/health hazards in even the everyday food that we eat.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

You're better off not reading about all of the possible side effects. You'll also likely start a self-fulfilling prophecy, making you get even the 0.01% chance side effects.

It's better not to know all of these things. I also do think you have to wonder, if you're scared about some of these side effects, how much do you really need medication? Not meant as an attack at all, but for me personally, apart from the sexual side effects, I couldn't give a rat's *** about side effects if that means I wouldn't be suicidal.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

But even if you don't get any of the side effects then I'm still already very discouraged. It sucks when you're prescribed a new med and think maybe this one will work and then even before trying it you discover that it's probably not only not going to work but also cause additional problems like being tired or getting fat. 
I really ask myself if antidepressants at best simply don't work and at worst mess you up even more. Most reviews I read written by remeron users were all negative. I can't afford to gain pounds of fat I'm already fat enough which also depresses me.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Agreed with Inshallah.  The mind is a powerful thing, this is why even placebo groups experience side effects during clinical studies. Everything is noted in the side effects section because the increases in varying hormones are known to also be correlated to these types of effects but they were not exhibited during the clinical trials and are not the defacto source for that information. The real side effects can be found in the product monograph. This is what groups experienced during the trial. They are not that long.Mirtazapine is one of the safest drugs to take. You are unlikely to OD from taking large amounts. Here's a page of all the various studies done for mirtazapine. There's even more since this page has been updated but I guess the person maintaining it has been lazy heh.http://www.neurotransmitter.net/mirtazapinetrials.html


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

thundercats said:


> I really ask myself if antidepressants at best simply don't work and at worst mess you up even more


You're five hundred miles way ahead of yourself man. A lot of these meds DO work, it's just when you go searching for reports online you're mostly going to find stories from people that are complaining, because more often than not when things work people spend much less time on the computer thinking about it and more time enjoying things.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

thundercats said:


> But even if you don't get any of the side effects then I'm still already very discouraged. It sucks when you're prescribed a new med and think maybe this one will work and then even before trying it you discover that it's probably not only not going to work but also cause additional problems like being tired or getting fat.
> I really ask myself if antidepressants at best simply don't work and at worst mess you up even more. Most reviews I read written by remeron users were all negative. I can't afford to gain pounds of fat I'm already fat enough which also depresses me.


If you do gain weight then stop it. If the weight bothers you, you can exercise and avoid eating bad. But my guess is once you are happy it won't bother you much. It's the depression that makes you negative towards yourself. I don't believe that antidepressants can make you gain weight, rather they can make you more sensitive to certain foods. If lipolysis occurs as a result my guess is that eating unprocessed Carb + protein meals low fat would help avoid it since lipolysis has nothing to go on with no fat in the blood.
I'm talking 200mg Zoloft, 45mg remeron and I've been gaining muscle weight and maintaining low body fat as I eat very well and exericse. But I'm sure if I ate bad and didn't exercise I would gain weight. It's not the drug that does it.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

thundercats said:


> But even if you don't get any of the side effects then I'm still already very discouraged. It sucks when you're prescribed a new med and think maybe this one will work and then even before trying it you discover that it's probably not only not going to work but also cause additional problems like being tired or getting fat.
> I really ask myself if antidepressants at best simply don't work and at worst mess you up even more. Most reviews I read written by remeron users were all negative. I can't afford to gain pounds of fat I'm already fat enough which also depresses me.


I would look for another one than Remeron indeed if you want to avoid tirenednes and excess hunger. Which ones have you tried already? Is it for anxiety, depression or both? I like the SSRI's a lot apart from the sexual dysfunction. If it weren't for that, I would be on high dose SSRI for life.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

It's also never the antidepressant that causes weight gain directly, it's the antidepressant causing (sometimes) more hunger which makes people overeat and eventually gain weight.

If you do as I did most of my life, count the kcals for the entire day (not to the exact kcal of course), you will never have a problem. But Remeron does tend to increase appetite and if you don't watch it, you'll start pouring in the kcals.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

On another forum I read a thread of a chick who wrote she gained weight on remeron even though she ate exactly the same and didn't eat more. That's scary. What if this stuff makes you become fat even if you eat normal by slowing down the metabolism? Or is it possible that at first you don't gain fat and then all of a sudden you pack on fat in no time without prior warning?
I mean when do you pull the break? When you gained 1 kilo or 2 kilos?

I have only been on celexa 20mg for 30 days and cannot say I felt anything and then the doc told me to get off it. I had sexual side effects from it. I could jack off for 1 hour without orgasm which became really annoying when you just want to quickly jack off and then go to bed but this didn't really bother me that much. But the celexa simply didn't make me feel any better. If I take a ssri then I expect to feel better or else I don't have to take it.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

thundercats said:


> On another forum I read a thread of a chick who wrote she gained weight on remeron even though she ate exactly the same and didn't eat more. That's scary. What if this stuff makes you become fat even if you eat normal by slowing down the metabolism? Or is it possible that at first you don't gain fat and then all of a sudden you pack on fat in no time without prior warning?
> I mean when do you pull the break? When you gained 1 kilo or 2 kilos?


That would violate physics and is simply not possible, trust me. Remeron can not create energy out of nothing. People greatly underestimate how much they actually eat, I still see this on a daily basis. If you're not counting kcals, you can hope you have the appetite of a bird.

I've dieted on Remeron and lost weight just the same as I would have on any other med or on no med at all.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

If you have an underactive thyroid you also become fat. Why should remeron not be able to slow down the metabolism somehow and make you become fat without eating more simply by slowing down the metabolism? I see no problem with that.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

None of the psy drugs, except for lithium, interferes with thyroid function. Sounds like yet another excuse people use to not have to take responsibility for their overeating.

I am on levothyroxine for hypothyroidism and never has my dose been adjusted due to an antidepressant, antipsychotic or benzo I was on.

Both myself and I think another member 'swim' have dieted without any problem on Remeron.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm just saying that I could imagine that a substance makes you gain weight even without eating more. 

I also read that remeron can cause bad edemas where you're full of water.


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## Sumguy7 (May 15, 2012)

thundercats said:


> I'm just saying that I could imagine that a substance makes you gain weight even without eating more.
> 
> I also read that remeron can cause bad edemas where you're full of water.


If you eat the same amount and burn the same amount of calories, you don't gain weight.

However, Remeron makes it harder to eat the same amount because it increases hunger, and makes it hard to burn the same amount because it increases tiredness. So you can gain weight through a change in behavior.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Does the hunger go away when you get off it or does it stay?

And could remeron be stacked with ritalin for example? Kinda like a booster during the day and then you knock yourself out with remeron.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

The hunger goes away when you come off it.

Ritalin might help. As I mentioned Adderall & Bupropion stopped my appetite 100% while on it, most of which was probably the Adderall. I went from eating like a pig to skipping food for days straight because I wasn't hungry. Eventually I had to make sure to set aside time to eat just because I had to.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

thundercats said:


> I'm just saying that I could imagine that a substance makes you gain weight even without eating more.
> 
> I also read that remeron can cause bad edemas where you're full of water.


That would violate thermodynamics, simply not possible.

Edema can occur if you actually overeat on Remeron. Without that, nope!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> That would violate thermodynamics, simply not possible.
> 
> Edema can occur if you actually overeat on Remeron. Without that, nope!


Heh the human body is a little bit more complex than that. Yes drugs can induce weight gain without increasing calorie intake. We do not have a full understanding of the bodies energy needs and how it manages it. There are studies that show that some drugs can indeed induce lipogenesis. The correct signaling can tell your body to start storing energy in fat cells. In fact a calorie is not a calorie. You can eat the exact same amount of calories in one type of food and gain weight while not with the other. Being from a bodybuilding background I can tell you that it's definitely the case. But anyways, here's something interesting.

*



SREBP Activation by Antipsychotic- and Antidepressant-Drugs in Cultured Human Liver Cells: Relevance for Metabolic Side-Effects 

Abstract 

Drug-induced weight gain is a major problem in the treatment of psychiatric disorders, especially with some antipsychotic- and antidepressant drugs. We have recently demonstrated that antipsychotic- and antidepressant drugs activate the SREBP (sterol regulatory element-binding proteins) transcription factors in human- and rat glial cells, with subsequent up-regulation of downstream genes involved in cholesterol- and fatty acid biosynthesis. Since stimulation of cellular lipogenesis in the liver could be of relevance for the metabolic side effects of these drugs, we have now investigated the effects of antidepressants, antipsychotic- and mood-stabilizing drugs on cell cultures of human liver cells. For several of the drugs being strongly associated with weight gain (clozapine, imipramine, and amitriptyline), we observed a very pronounced activation of SREBP. Ziprasidone and buproprion, however, which are not associated with weight gain, did hardly stimulate the SREBP system. For haloperidol, olanzapine and mirtazapine, the correspondence between metabolic side effects and SREBP stimulation in liver cells was less obvious. The mood-stabilizers did not increase SREBP activation. The results indicate a relationship between drug-induced activation of SREBP in cultured human liver cells and weight gain side-effects of antidepressant and antipsychotic drugs.

Click to expand...

*Also note that mirtazapine is actually not known to work by this mechanism, so in this case you shouldn't worry about the fat gain as long as you control your cravings. Some people compare mirtazapine munchies to that of marijuana.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Interesting didn't know that. But not convinced that it actually matters much, if at all, in the grand scheme of things. I've seen too many thin as a rail women on antipsychotics to hold that to much value. 

The common denominator between those on high dose antipsychotics who were fat and those who were thin was made at the dinner table which I shared with them for 4 months in a psy hospital.

Given your bodybuilding, you might also know that pro bodybuilders a lot of times even contest diet while using high doses of insulin, 'the master storage hormone'.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

The biggest issue for me is the fear of side effects. I'm already anxious without taking any medicine and often times I feel weird or maybe feel a bit dizzy or my head hurts and then I'm usually already upset and worry what this might be. But if I now take something which can cause all kinds of side effects then I'll be even more worried whenever I feel weird.
Can you even drive a car anymore when you take something like remeron which can cause fainting and many other things which must not happen while driving a car? I think I'd be scared of driving if I was taking remeron.


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

You can speculate all day, but as you've made it clear you're never gonna be satisfied with the answers you get until you try it and find out for yourself.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> Interesting didn't know that. But not convinced that it actually matters much, if at all, in the grand scheme of things. I've seen too many thin as a rail women on antipsychotics to hold that to much value.
> 
> The common denominator between those on high dose antipsychotics who were fat and those who were thin was made at the dinner table which I shared with them for 4 months in a psy hospital.
> 
> Given your bodybuilding, you might also know that pro bodybuilders a lot of times even contest diet while using high doses of insulin, 'the master storage hormone'.


Well, I think it may matter in some and may not in others. It is more than likely specific genetic variants. I know my buddy who was on Effexor gained a **** load of weight and this guy is religious about his eating habits and exercise. We played squash together and he was always very active. He put on 30lbs, which was insane and he even decreased his intake of food. As soon as he went off it he ended up losing all the weight. So I do think there's something there but we know so little about the human body and the brain to even speculate anything. I would speculate that in a lot of cases it's just over-eating but there are some genuine cases for sure.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I also heard that there are setpoints and the body tries to hold a certain weight even if you eat a lot it'll not put on additional fat. I could imagine that this stuff really exists. 
Also there are people who can eat whatever they want without putting on fat while others cannot. If remeron interferes with hormones then it's not hard at all to imagine how it could make you fat. If it for example raised estrogen in the body you'd become fat.



> You can speculate all day, but as you've made it clear you're never gonna be satisfied with the answers you get until you try it and find out for yourself.


I know. But then there's also the question when is it worth to try a certain medicine when it already looks like this one is probably not the right choice. I cannot go through all antidepressants which already sound crappy hoping that maybe it might work for me even though it didn't work for the most.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

thundercats said:


> I am supposed to start taking Remeron. First 15mg and then raise to 30mg. However after reading the leaflet I'm not very enthusiastic anymore. The side effect list is pretty long and under often it has stuff like fainting.
> And what also sucks big time is that you obviously cannot combined Remeron with SSRI or benzos. It says that this can lead to a serotonine syndrome.
> I'm really not happy about this. Knowing that I couldn't take a benzo if I needed doesn't feel good.


LOL I would stick to the SSRIs and benzos myself
the weight gain, tiredness and lethargy would get me down too much as that seems to be the main list of complaints people who take them have oh and they turn you into a walking zombie.:sus


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Then why does my doc suggest meds which suck? I don't get it.
If remeron doesn't work for most why should it work for me?


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Is remeron good for putting on muscle?


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

GotAnxiety said:


> Is remeron good for putting on muscle?


Honestly I think it could help indirectly. It's been a few years since I've lifted but I remember always trying so hard to gain weight. The increased appetite on this stuff can be a huge benefit if you eat the right foods and are lifting to put it to good use. The heavy vasodilation is great too. Even after not lifting in a few years this stuff has me walking around with my veins bulged everyday as if I just got out of the gym. It's a good feeling, it feels like you're already "warmed up" all the time and could just jump right in.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm already way too fat now. I have a hard time finding pants which don't make me look fat. I really don't know if under these circumstances remeron is right for me. I also don't want to have to worry all the time about getting even fatter.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Im pretty big as well like 200lb wouldn't mind packing some more weight on if it in all the right places adding 50lb extra would be like a built in weighted vest more weight more muscle. Does remeron effect modivation?


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

For the most part I consider it to be pretty neutral in the motivation area. It didn't kill motivation like SSRIs, but didn't really give it either.

Although when I was on 30-45mg it was a bit motivating. At those doses it was definitely a mood booster. The sedation & constant brain fog was the deal breaker.


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## barchaetone (Oct 15, 2011)

Just came off Remeron after 2.5 months on it. Started at 7.5, for a month then went up to 30 mg. Neither dose did anything for sleep (NO effect at all). No difference in mood (my wife said I was crankier), no effect for social anxiety or depression, but I gained about 20 lbs due to gnawing hunger all the time. I could finish a full pasta meal at dinner time, and would be stuffing my face again an hour later. I had just lost 10 lbs through careful dieting so the weight gain got me really down.

There was an intense 3 week adjustment to the med in which I felt drained and lethargic all the time, but his went away.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

@ beaches

Did you take the 30mg at once to get the boosting effect?

@ barchaetone

Why did you take it so long when you noticed that it makes you fat?
And did you have problems with withdrawal?


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## beaches09 (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes all at once. It took something around 2-4 weeks of taking it before I started getting the mood boosts though.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

In the leaflet there is a warning that you need to call your doctor if you feel euphoric under remeron. Let's say this stuff really works and I feel better than usual then I also gotta worry that maybe this is euphoria and I needed to call a doctor right away. :um

Somehow I'm really scared of starting to take it especially if this stuff makes you so tired. When I take a new medicine then the last thing I want to do is fall asleep. If I fall asleep then how shall I notice if I get any other side effects? I'd rather not fall asleep and instead watch myself.


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## kitterbug (Oct 25, 2007)

aww thundercats, i try not to read the leaflets and just go by the docs word. Otherwise i'd just get worked up over it. "OMG! Look at all the things that could happen to me!!" There is going to be a chance of side-effects or withdrawal in a lot of antidepressants.

2 years ago i was admitted into the psych ward at the hospital for extreme anxiety/severe panic attacks and suicidal actions. The doc prescribed me both Remeron and Klonopin. Remeron really sedated me on the first day. I had to use the wall as support to make it down to the lunch room i remember. The next day it was much better. The third day, no problem. I think someone else here also mentioned the sedative effect did not last long for them. Sometime after leaving the hospital i switched to something else because Remeron wasn't working for me (as it seems ALL anti-depressants don't work for me). 

If you do end up trying Remeron, i suggest taking your first dose on a day off, preferably with the next day off too just in case you get the zombie effect.

Also if you caught it, i was prescribed Klonopin with Remeron, so i guess my doc didn't see much of a risk of getting serotonin syndrome.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Is klonopin an older antidepressant? And does this work for you?

Anyway, I cannot not read the leaflet. There could be really important stuff in there which the doctor didn't tell you. Usually doctors don't say much about side effects and what to look out for.


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## kitterbug (Oct 25, 2007)

Klonopin is a benzo my dear  like Xanax.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Can you take Klonopin daily over a long period? Or does this cause addiction?
Usually doctors are scared of prescribing benzos because of addiction.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I just found this here. :blank
This worries me. What if remeron works totally great and then it stops working how much would that suck? 

http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Remeron?from=Mirtazapine.Mirtazapine#.T9tsJZjqDGg
*6.  Interesting Stuff Your Doctor Probably Won't Tell You about Remeron (mirtazapine) *


Remeron appears to be subject to a really quick poop-out, like after just a month or so. Works great, then quits on you.

As Remeron encourages your brain to actually produce more of the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine, talk to your doctor about taking their respective precursors, 5-HTP (or l-tryptophan) and l-tyrosine. Neurotransmitter/monoamine depletion is a controversial hypothesis, but it explains too many things, like antidepressant poop-out (tachyphylaxis) to dismiss outright.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

I think this is cause the sedation effect quits workin but it because people rise the dose and they can't fall asleep.lots of the post are like i just raised my dose to 45mg and i cankt fall asleep.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

You mean it stops making you tired but still works as antidepressant?

If remeron really encourages the brain to produce more serotonin isn't this better than simply inhibiting the uptake of serotonin? But what if this can also lead to a shortage of ressources and then you end up with a lack of serotonin?


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## peytonfarquar (Feb 8, 2011)

I was on 15mg daily for a month. Didn't do anything for me moodwise or emotionalwise. But it made me sleep more and eat more. The sleepiness would kick in a few hours after each dose and if I didn't take a nap then, I would sleep an extra few hours in the morning, getting up at 11am instead of 9am for example. The increased appetite would take hold several hours after dosing. *In that month timeframe I gained an unprecedented 20 pounds.* I thought I had an incurably high metabolism. Been on the skinny side my entire life. None of the other medications have made me gain weight, even Paxil, which is supposedly notorious for weight gain.

Remeron is an interesting medication. . .


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

thundercats said:


> I just found this here. :blank
> This worries me. What if remeron works totally great and then it stops working how much would that suck?
> 
> http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Remeron?from=Mirtazapine.Mirtazapine#.T9tsJZjqDGg
> ...


Hah I'm on Wellbutrin now because Remeron pooped out. It was a nice ride while it lasted. I got a good response by upping to 75mg but I rather take a safer approach.


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