# Concentration meditation and mindfulness meditation.....can i do both?



## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

I've heard meditation reduces anxiety so I've started doing it. I started doing concentration meditation. I pretty much sat in a quiet place, closed my eyes and focused on my breathing. But I heard that mindfulness meditation is also great for anxiety. So could I do both of them? Could I practice concentration meditation for one day and then mindfulness meditation the next day?

Also, what exactly do you do when you practice mindfulness meditation? Is there a certain technique? 

Thanks.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

I have been practicing only concentration meditation because I primarily want to improve my focus and self control. Mindfulness has more research behind it, that supports it as an effective way to treat anxiety. There should be no harm in switching between the two kinds of meditation though and by doing this, you would get the benefit of both. With time, you could tailor your practice as you find out what way works better for you.
I find learning meditation involves a lot of stumbling initially till you settle into a routine you like.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

alte said:


> I have been practicing only concentration meditation because I primarily want to improve my focus and self control. Mindfulness has more research behind it, that supports it as an effective way to treat anxiety. There should be no harm in switching between the two kinds of meditation though and by doing this, you would get the benefit of both. With time, you could tailor your practice as you find out what way works better for you.
> I find learning meditation involves a lot of stumbling initially till you settle into a routine you like.


Thanks bro! But what exactly do you do for mindfulness meditation? I'm very new to this


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Mindfulness meditation is typically used as another word to mean Insight meditation (Vipassana) which is watching the breath, but also includes noting thoughts, focusing on sounds, and body sensations, ie. just staying in the moment and watching whatever comes up.Concentration meditation is the use of a mantra or another source of focus such as, a mental image,or the breath, to ground you in the present moment and your focus is only on the object of meditation. And of course its fine to do both styles.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

Keith said:


> Mindfulness meditation is typically used as another word to mean Insight meditation (Vipassana) which is watching the breath, but also includes noting thoughts, focusing on sounds, and body sensations, ie. just staying in the moment and watching whatever comes up.Concentration meditation is the use of a mantra or another source of focus such as, a mental image,or the breath, to ground you in the present moment and your focus is only on the object of meditation. And of course its fine to do both styles.


Thanks man! But when I think about it, mindfulness meditation sorta sounds like day dreaming? lol...maby it's just me..


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Thanks man! But when I think about it, mindfulness meditation sorta sounds like day dreaming? lol...maby it's just me..


Yeah it does kinda sound like that, but it actually frees you from getting caught up in thoughts.You can also practice informal mindfulness which is just becoming aware of the breath throughout the day while your doing whatever.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

Keith said:


> Yeah it does kinda sound like that, but it actually frees you from getting caught up in thoughts.You can also practice informal mindfulness which is just becoming aware of the breath throughout the day while your doing whatever.


Thanks! Do you listen to any music while you do minfulness meditation? Also, how long do you do it for?


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Personally i don't listen to any music but you can, I try to do 25-30 mins a day in 2 sessions but you should probably start out with 10-15 mins a day and work your way up.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

Keith said:


> Personally i don't listen to any music but you can, I try to do 25-30 mins a day in 2 sessions but you should probably start out with 10-15 mins a day and work your way up.


I see, but do you develop a tolerance when you meditate? Like, if you meditate for 10 minutes, do you eventually need to increase the time in order to get the desired effects??


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

No you don't develop a tolerance to it. When you meditate the goal is not even to achieve a special state like relaxation. Relaxation is more of side effect not a goal to achieve.When i first started meditating i thought I was doing it wrong if I didnt achieve relaxation, but that's not true. As long as you keep coming back to the object(s) of meditation your doing it right. The reason i recommend a shorter amount of time to start off is, very infrequently does a person actually sit with their thoughts and it can feel overwhelming at first. If you have trouble following the breath just keep your daily meditation practice up. Just remember every time you get distracted and come back to your breath your training your brain to come back to the present moment which is what mindfulness meditation is all about.Another thing is for me it usually takes my brain 7-10 mins to calm down to a more peaceful state so keep that in mind too. If you dont get the side effect of relaxation at first you will if you keep doing it, but remember its not the goal.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

Keith said:


> No you don't develop a tolerance to it. When you meditate the goal is not even to achieve a special state like relaxation. Relaxation is more of side effect not a goal to achieve.When i first started meditating i thought I was doing it wrong if I didnt achieve relaxation, but that's not true. As long as you keep coming back to the object(s) of meditation your doing it right. The reason i recommend a shorter amount of time to start off is, very infrequently does a person actually sit with their thoughts and it can feel overwhelming at first. If you have trouble following the breath just keep your daily meditation practice up. Just remember every time you get distracted and come back to your breath your training your brain to come back to the present moment which is what mindfulness meditation is all about.Another thing is for me it usually takes my brain 7-10 mins to calm down to a more peaceful state so keep that in mind too. If you dont get the side effect of relaxation at first you will if you keep doing it, but remember its not the goal.


Ahhh I see, thanks, thats really good info. I think I'm just going to start doing mindfulness meditation everyday and see how it goes. How has it been working for you?

Also, will mindulness meditation help me stay focused or get some sort of increase in mental abilities? Because I've really been messing up in school and I need to start getting better grades.


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Ahhh I see, thanks, thats really good info. I think I'm just going to start doing mindfulness meditation everyday and see how it goes. How has it been working for you?
> 
> Also, will mindulness meditation help me stay focused or get some sort of increase in mental abilities? Because I've really been messing up in school and I need to start getting better grades.


Meditation has helped me to worry less and develop a lot of insights into my "problems." Also i find it relaxing sometimes, and a good thing to practice when I'm anxious. It helps me fight through all the worry thoughts, and think more clearly.I cant really gauge how well it improves focus and stuff as i take a medication that clouds up my mind a bit.If you practice informal mindfulness it will help with attention, all it is is watching your breath at different points of the day or doing activities such as eating or showering mindfully. Practice it in class while your developing your meditation skill and you should reap some benefits.Maybe meditation alone is enough if you could meditate before class that would certainly help as after a session i usually feel more clearheaded.


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Thanks bro! But what exactly do you do for mindfulness meditation? I'm very new to this


Mindfulness and concentration meditation should go hand in hand to develop the best of both. Concentration is merely focussing the mind while mindfulness observes what is being concentrated on. Mindfullness notices when concentration fails and so you can quickly go back to the object of concentration. Both done together increase both abilities quicker than one done at a time.

When I first started mindfulness meditation I never undertsood "just notice your breath or thought" What the hell does that mean? How do I notice my breath or thoughts. I'd just sit there paying attention to my breathing and after months of this I had achieved absolutely nothing in terms of increased concentration or mindfulness. But then I discovered meta-cognition and began to grasp the idea behind mindfulness. I find it easier to practice mindfulness by noticing an aspect of what you focus your attention on rather than the whole thing. How long does a thought last for, how strong is the thought? Asking questions about your own thoughts and sensations is, I think, one way to becoming mindful. You'll get good at it and won't have to do that after a while. I just sit there and notice what goes through my consciousness. Remember, meditation can get boring but you get nowhere with it if you give up which is a very tempting thing to do. It takes a long time to reap the benefits of mindfulness meditation.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

jimity said:


> Mindfulness and concentration meditation should go hand in hand to develop the best of both. Concentration is merely focussing the mind while mindfulness observes what is being concentrated on. Mindfullness notices when concentration fails and so you can quickly go back to the object of concentration. Both done together increase both abilities quicker than one done at a time.
> 
> When I first started mindfulness meditation I never undertsood "just notice your breath or thought" What the hell does that mean? How do I notice my breath or thoughts. I'd just sit there paying attention to my breathing and after months of this I had achieved absolutely nothing in terms of increased concentration or mindfulness. But then I discovered meta-cognition and began to grasp the idea behind mindfulness. I find it easier to practice mindfulness by noticing an aspect of what you focus your attention on rather than the whole thing. How long does a thought last for, how strong is the thought? Asking questions about your own thoughts and sensations is, I think, one way to becoming mindful. You'll get good at it and won't have to do that after a while. I just sit there and notice what goes through my consciousness. Remember, meditation can get boring but you get nowhere with it if you give up which is a very tempting thing to do. It takes a long time to reap the benefits of mindfulness meditation.


Really? I meditated for about a week and I noticed that I'm in a lot better mood and I think my anxiety somewhat decreased.

How long does it usually take before you reap the full benefits of meditation?


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Really? I meditated for about a week and I noticed that I'm in a lot better mood and I think my anxiety somewhat decreased.
> 
> How long does it usually take before you reap the full benefits of meditation?


Depends on how much time you spend working on it. The full benefits of meditation is not just a better mood but the destruction of the self and desire/aversion and to see reality as it is... changes constantly. Plus various psychic powers (such as walking through walls, telepathy, flying, hearing things from far away, morphing into other people etc) are reported to be developed if you desire to achieve them.

When I sat to meditate I would start of good but then start procrastinating and lose track. I did get better at controlling my anxiety through concentration. Acute anxiety and panic episodes I'd get at night I could control simnpyl by forcing my attention outside on something.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

jimity said:


> Depends on how much time you spend working on it. The full benefits of meditation is not just a better mood but the destruction of the self and desire/aversion and to see reality as it is... changes constantly. Plus various psychic powers (such as walking through walls, telepathy, flying, hearing things from far away, morphing into other people etc) are reported to be developed if you desire to achieve them.
> 
> When I sat to meditate I would start of good but then start procrastinating and lose track. I did get better at controlling my anxiety through concentration. Acute anxiety and panic episodes I'd get at night I could control simnpyl by forcing my attention outside on something.


Oh, well I'm not interested in all the psychic stuff. I just want to be in a better mood, with little or no anxiety and with better concentration. If I had those 3 things my life would be soo much better.

I hope mindfulness meditation will get me that.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

Keith said:


> Meditation has helped me to worry less and develop a lot of insights into my "problems." Also i find it relaxing sometimes, and a good thing to practice when I'm anxious. It helps me fight through all the worry thoughts, and think more clearly.I cant really gauge how well it improves focus and stuff as i take a medication that clouds up my mind a bit.If you practice informal mindfulness it will help with attention, all it is is watching your breath at different points of the day or doing activities such as eating or showering mindfully. Practice it in class while your developing your meditation skill and you should reap some benefits.Maybe meditation alone is enough if you could meditate before class that would certainly help as after a session i usually feel more clearheaded.


Cool, the one thing I don't like about meditation is that if you skip one day of your meditation practice, your back to your old self.

I'm already mixing informal meditation with regular meditation but if I skip one meditation practice but at the same time I've been doing lots of informal meditation, will that send me back to square one or will I still reap the benefits?


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

jimity said:


> Mindfulness and concentration meditation should go hand in hand to develop the best of both. Concentration is merely focussing the mind while mindfulness observes what is being concentrated on. Mindfullness notices when concentration fails and so you can quickly go back to the object of concentration. Both done together increase both abilities quicker than one done at a time.
> 
> When I first started mindfulness meditation I never undertsood "just notice your breath or thought" What the hell does that mean? How do I notice my breath or thoughts. I'd just sit there paying attention to my breathing and after months of this I had achieved absolutely nothing in terms of increased concentration or mindfulness. But then I discovered meta-cognition and began to grasp the idea behind mindfulness. I find it easier to practice mindfulness by noticing an aspect of what you focus your attention on rather than the whole thing. How long does a thought last for, how strong is the thought? Asking questions about your own thoughts and sensations is, I think, one way to becoming mindful. You'll get good at it and won't have to do that after a while. I just sit there and notice what goes through my consciousness. Remember, meditation can get boring but you get nowhere with it if you give up which is a very tempting thing to do. It takes a long time to reap the benefits of mindfulness meditation.


Hey btw, when I do mindfulness meditation, like when I need to focus on my breath, I focus particularly when I exhale. So I visualize my nose from a different angle and I picture myself exhaling in my mind. Is that a good way to go about this?


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Hey btw, when I do mindfulness meditation, like when I need to focus on my breath, I focus particularly when I exhale. So I visualize my nose from a different angle and I picture myself exhaling in my mind. Is that a good way to go about this?


From what I have read, no, it is not a good thing to visualize anything other than focusing the mind on the feeling of breath when it enters the nose. You should not visualize yourself inhaling and exhaling. I made that mistake for months without realizing it. It will disperse and dilute concentration and your visualisation becomes the main focus of attention rather than the breath. But if it helps you concentrate at first then I'd say keep doing it, but discard it once your mind becomes focussed on the breath.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

jimity said:


> From what I have read, no, it is not a good thing to visualize anything other than focusing the mind on the feeling of breath when it enters the nose. You should not visualize yourself inhaling and exhaling. I made that mistake for months without realizing it. It will disperse and dilute concentration and your visualisation becomes the main focus of attention rather than the breath. But if it helps you concentrate at first then I'd say keep doing it, but discard it once your mind becomes focussed on the breath.


Ohh okay, I'm just more of a visual person so I thought that would be the way to go.

So my mind is supposed to be completly blank and I'm just supposed to focus on the feeling of my breath when I inhale? I will go try this now..


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Ohh okay, I'm just more of a visual person so I thought that would be the way to go.
> 
> So my mind is supposed to be completly blank and I'm just supposed to focus on the feeling of my breath when I inhale? I will go try this now..


You cAn visualize to develop concentration but then that should be the full focus of your attention and not dispersed on the breath as well.

Yep. But keeping a still mind will be hard at first since the "monkey mind" aspect will constantly distract you. But keep your mind on the area of the nose where the feeling of air stikes it. Your mind will wander and think, but notice when it wanders (ie, apply mindfulness) and you can redirect it back to the place on the nose. Easy enough, but very difficult especially if you have ADD/ADHD which I suspect I have. You will have to repeat the focus (called "applied thought") thousands of times before the muscles of the mind are built up even to a small degree. Developing concentration is very much like building muscles.

I know, it's hard not to visualize the process when using the breath as an object, the main problem I had, but as you get better at meditation, you will probably find this habit of visualizing will stop and your mind will "snap" into a state of concentration (called "sustained thought") and focus on the breath feeling without much effort on your part.


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

jimity said:


> You cAn visualize to develop concentration but then that should be the full focus of your attention and not dispersed on the breath as well.
> 
> Yep. But keeping a still mind will be hard at first since the "monkey mind" aspect will constantly distract you. But keep your mind on the area of the nose where the feeling of air stikes it. Your mind will wander and think, but notice when it wanders (ie, apply mindfulness) and you can redirect it back to the place on the nose. Easy enough, but very difficult especially if you have ADD/ADHD which I suspect I have. You will have to repeat the focus (called "applied thought") thousands of times before the muscles of the mind are built up even to a small degree. Developing concentration is very much like building muscles.
> 
> I know, it's hard not to visualize the process when using the breath as an object, the main problem I had, but as you get better at meditation, you will probably find this habit of visualizing will stop and your mind will "snap" into a state of concentration (called "sustained thought") and focus on the breath feeling without much effort on your part.


Yeah, I think I have ADD too. Like, when people talk to me, my mind usually wanders lol.

But yeah, when I meditate and start thinking about other things, in my head I'm like, "Good thought.....now back to the present moment." Then I start noting how comfortable each of my body parts are and after that I focus on my breath. And yeah, picturing myself breathing is better for me.

"......but then that should be the full focus of your attention and not dispersed on the breath as well."

Lastly, what do you mean by that ^?


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> "......but then that should be the full focus of your attention and not dispersed on the breath as well."
> 
> Lastly, what do you mean by that ^?


If you visualize yourself breathing and also focus on the physical sensation of the breath entering and exiting the nose, your attention is now on two areas (the visual image plus the sensation of breath) which spreads out your concentration which in turn dilutes it. So if you visualize while trying to concentrate on the breath, drop the sensation of breath and just focus on the visualization. This is hard to seperate the 2 for me since I have habituated myself.


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## JudgeDreddlikescookies (Dec 13, 2011)

this thread has been helpful thanks!


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## oooooooooo1100 (Nov 25, 2011)

jimity said:


> If you visualize yourself breathing and also focus on the physical sensation of the breath entering and exiting the nose, your attention is now on two areas (the visual image plus the sensation of breath) which spreads out your concentration which in turn dilutes it. So if you visualize while trying to concentrate on the breath, drop the sensation of breath and just focus on the visualization. This is hard to seperate the 2 for me since I have habituated myself.


Ohh gotcha!

Last question, is it ok to meditate and listen to meditation music with a repetitive sound and focus on that sound instead of your breath? I think it would be the same as focusing on your breath but I'm not sure.


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Last question, is it ok to meditate and listen to meditation music with a repetitive sound and focus on that sound instead of your breath? I think it would be the same as focusing on your breath but I'm not sure.


Anything that keeps you in the present is good.


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

oooooooooo1100 said:


> Ohh gotcha!
> 
> Last question, is it ok to meditate and listen to meditation music with a repetitive sound and focus on that sound instead of your breath? I think it would be the same as focusing on your breath but I'm not sure.


Yeah absolutely.


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## lkkxm (Apr 11, 2012)

It's been so long since I've done this. I'm going to start again. I remember it helping.


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## PJAMESH (Jan 17, 2013)

*Concentrative Meditation*

I came accross this little article, which might be of interest.

http://www.bluebanyan.com.au/latest_news_and_articles/concentrative-meditation


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