# Good academics dragged down by lack of involvement and networking



## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Or, "excelling academically... in a vacuum."

Anyone else like this?

For as long as I can remember... middle school, high school, college... I've done well in all my courses and put up good grades and standardized test scores. But how much does it really matter when that's all you have to say for yourself?

Extracurriculars, clubs... what are those? Volunteer work... uh, err... no. Oh, and my favorite... _leadership roles_. Don't make me laugh.

Every single application I've filled out - be it for a job, scholarship, or admission to a school - has been an exercise in humiliation when it comes to these non-academic sections. I've usually managed to compensate with my raw numbers, and as a result I've grown complacent with holing up in my room and continuing my SA-induced lack of involvement. In the back of my mind, I know the day will come when it all catches up to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for my good academic record, especially being that I don't have much else going for me. But it puts me in this awkward position where people have high expectations for my future... and honestly, I often let even myself believe that I'm entitled to a good job and respect simply because I have this uncanny ability to BS my way through tests. Yet, the closer I get to the "real world," the more I realize how screwed I am if I don't get my act together and start networking with professors, employers, etc. In the real world, it's all about who you know, not what you know.

Anyway, I know the extracurricular and social things SA have held me back from doing have caused me untold stress over the years, and it's really bothering me lately so thought I'd post a nice little rant on the subject.


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## delirium (Jun 24, 2009)

Yeah man. My uncle used to talk to my mom about me in this manner: sure he does well in school, but that's not enough to make it anywhere -- it's all about who you know. This used to irritate me to no end. I suppose it was my insecurity, and my natural dislike of having my weaknesses pointed out because I was insecure about them. Now, however, after seeing some therapists and understanding more about how SA has limited me, I realize that I can change. It takes a tremendous amount of effort and the path is never linear (setbacks abound). But, as long as I keep pushing forward, I know (hope and have faith) that I'll mature into a socially confident person.


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## FakeFur (Nov 4, 2009)

Ugh, I know what you mean.
I've never been one to get involved in school or network with people.
When applying to colleges and creating a resume for myself, I really didn't have much to write, and it was kind of pathetic. 
I feel like with applying to college, your grades matter more than anything else, but in the the real world, your experience and who you know matter a lot more than they did before.

_leadership roles_...I especially hate those too lol


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## rincewind (Sep 7, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Or, "excelling academically... in a vacuum."
> 
> Anyone else like this?


Yes, definitely! I've always done well academically but outside that I feel like I've got nothing else to offer.



anomalous said:


> Every single application I've filled out - be it for a job, scholarship, or admission to a school - has been an exercise in humiliation when it comes to these non-academic sections. I've usually managed to compensate with my raw numbers, and as a result I've grown complacent with holing up in my room and continuing my SA-induced lack of involvement. In the back of my mind, I know the day will come when it all catches up to me.


I'm not sure exactly how much importance employers typically place on that sort of thing when looking over applications, but I often ended up with a single token sentence for it in mine :roll By now I think I've probably got enough of an employment/academic record to just ignore that section completely.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

Yeah, this is me. I have a Master's degree, but feel terribly unqualified to do pretty much anything. I've done very, very little in the "real world." I've never even had a job--not even a part-time or summer job or anything of the sort--outside of the teaching positions I held as a grad student. And even those I didn't have to apply for as jobs, per se; they just automatically came with being accepted into my grad programs. It's now been three years since I dropped out of my PhD program, and I haven't even attempted to find a job. That whole world is just completely foreign to me, and terribly, terribly scary. Despite my academic achievement, I feel useless and incompetent, and unable to function in the real world.


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## Banzai (Jun 4, 2009)

rincewind said:


> Yes, definitely! I've always done well academically but outside that I feel like I've got nothing else to offer.


Ditto this. Recently I figured that I couldn't just get away with just grades and so, have been trying to do some volunteering work/extra curricular activities.

You should really start to consider doing them (dunno if you already are) especially considering the economic climate...it takes a lot of motivation just to attend but just tell yourself, all you have to do is go there, do whatever and go home. If you don't like it then you can leave at any time you want. Things like art club, all you have to do is go there, sit down and draw in complete silence. Or maybe you could try a sport. As for volunteering, conservation/ecology related work is really easy - you just go there, get assigned a task and you get on and do it. You don't even have to talk to anyone if you don't want to.


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## farleyknight (Oct 29, 2009)

I started college with the mindset that if I just did well, there would be a job waiting for me at the end of the road.. I've learned this is pretty much a false statement. 

Thankfully, one of my professors actually pushed me out of my shell by implying that I could never make it out in the real world. What do you think I did? Back down? Hell no..! I took a year or so off of school and found some work on my own. Because of taking that challenge my career is off to something of a start. This was possible because computer programmers are very much in demand, so I don't know about other fields.

I think if I can improve my social skills and start connecting with some of the influential people in my particular area of computing, then I could start getting better paying contracts, but I'm not sure yet.. 

Don't get me wrong, I love being around smart people and so I really do like the atmosphere of school.. But when profs set a high standard and I don't see myself making that standard, I loose motivation very quickly. I think I need to find a way to stabilize my self-perception during school so I can at finish at some point..


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## shy67 (May 2, 2008)

You described my situation perfectly! I have really good grades but not much. Never been to a club/organization meeting. I am really starting to get worried about what I will do once I graduate. I do have a job on campus as an office assistant. However, I don't really have leadership experience. At the job I just file, update a database, make copies, etc. I am also a part of two honor societies but did not even go to the induction ceremony.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

*Hand goes up*

I've always had good marks, but it seems graduating from university has actually closed doors for me. I only have a Bachelors degree, so it's not like I'm amazingly qualified for anything; yet on the other hand, I'm now overqualified for the summer job-type things I used to do. I've actually been told that directly: "You're probably overqualified to work here." That gives me a perverted sense of pride, I guess. But I'm still jobless.

Unless you're great at networking, it almost seems as if you have to go on and get a higher degree. Or rob a bank. Anyone wanna be my partner in crime?



anonymid said:


> Yeah, this is me. I have a Master's degree, but feel terribly unqualified to do pretty much anything. I've done very, very little in the "real world." I've never even had a job--not even a part-time or summer job or anything of the sort--outside of the teaching positions I held as a grad student. And even those I didn't have to apply for as jobs, per se; they just automically came with being accepted into my grad programs. It's now been three years since I dropped out of my PhD program, and I haven't even attempted to find a job. That whole world is just completely foreign to me, and terribly, terribly scary. Despite my academic achievement, I feel useless and incompetent, and unable to function in the real world.


Me too. Put me out of school and I'm a fish out of water.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Glad to find others.

I went to a pretty good undergrad program. I was all set to go to Grad school until I realized I need recommendations from 3-4 of my teachers. I never once talk to them about about anything except homework. So lack of social prep of teachers and my general fear put me in the workplace instead of grad school. Looking back, it was probably for the best.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Marooned said:


> These are the same feelings I had throughout my three years of college and what ultimately led to my dropping out. I knew that my chances of converting all that knowledge I thought I was gaining into a livelihood or really anything tangible were terrible, so all the anxiety and debt I was incurring seemed unjustifiable.
> 
> Although I always made good grades and managed an enviable GPA, it wasn't until I was removed from that environment that I realized how utterly clueless I was. In hindsight, I was a mediocre student. I didn't know how, why, or what it meant to learn and never got the appropriate feedback from my teachers to realize it.
> 
> ...


I think you're completely right here. I graduated at the top of my class this year, but I can't shake the feeling that I didn't really _learn_ very much. The system can be gamed, even in college, and some of us are extremely good at doing just that for whatever reason.

I don't get much test anxiety (unlike a lot of my classmates) and I'm very good at working things out logically in my head -- in other words, I can figure things out on tests on the fly even if I don't know the material that well. While this is certainly a skill in and of itself, I don't think it's the skill that grad schools and future employers are interested in when they look at your transcripts. Basically, I've faked my way through school my whole life, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.



VanDamMan said:


> Glad to find others.
> 
> I went to a pretty good undergrad program. I was all set to go to Grad school until I realized I need recommendations from 3-4 of my teachers. I never once talk to them about about anything except homework. So lack of social prep of teachers and my general fear put me in the workplace instead of grad school. Looking back, it was probably for the best.


Applying for grad school last year was a humiliating experience for me. I e-mailed professors asking for letters of recommendation, and some of them I'd spoken to face-to-face maybe once or twice in my life. I don't know how they even managed to write a full letter, because they didn't know anything about me beyond my grades in their courses (and the resume I sent).


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## rincewind (Sep 7, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Applying for grad school last year was a humiliating experience for me. I e-mailed professors asking for letters of recommendation, and some of them I'd spoken to face-to-face maybe once or twice in my life. I don't know how they even managed to write a full letter, because they didn't know anything about me beyond my grades in their courses (and the resume I sent).


I had a similar experience several years ago when I needed references for my first job. I had to get one from a professor I'd spoken to once or twice in total during 5 years at university. He seemed willing enough to do it, but it felt so awkward to go and ask him to do something like that when he probably didn't even know my name without looking it up.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

I had one major skill throughout high school, and that was that I was damn good at Latin. I joined Latin club and held office all four years, went to Latin conventions, was on the Latin quiz bowl team, etc. And now in college I'm in classics honor society and am constantly busy with that. I guess I lucked out.


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## Catlover4100 (Feb 10, 2009)

Yeah, I know how you feel. I have some extracurricular and volunteer activities, but the people who I'm competing against for sholarships and such are like, the captain of every team and club and still have a 4.0!

When I was in 10th grade, I had the highest grade out of everyone in my school taking chemistry. I, along with the second and third highest people, were interviewed for a big scholarship. Well, forget the numbers, let's just give it to the kid who's a big suckup!


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Catlover4100 said:


> Yeah, I know how you feel. I have some extracurricular and volunteer activities, but *the people who I'm competing against for sholarships and such are like, the captain of every team and club and still have a 4.0!*


Oh, the memories from high school. Not that they aren't still around in college, but at least you aren't forced to ogle over their ilk as much.

Part of me wouldn't trade anything in the world to be one of them, though. It's probably just a delusional rationalization I've conjured up to justify my borderline-reclusive behavior, but I've always taken a certain degree of pride in spending my spare time how _I_ enjoy spending it, rather than how future admissions officers reviewing my application would have me spend it. School already eats up enough of our lives as it is, you know? I don't see anything wrong with refusing to let half-assed clubs and sports consume what's left. The pressure in our society to fall in line and spend every waking moment doing something "constructive" has reached the level of absurdity, IMO.


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## rincewind (Sep 7, 2009)

anomalous said:


> but I've always taken a certain degree of pride in spending my spare time how _I_ enjoy spending it, rather than how future admissions officers reviewing my application would have me spend it.


I agree, and I do the same thing. I would never join a club or do anything similar for the sole reason of it being an extra-curricular activity. If you don't get at least some enjoyment or interest out of it then there's no point forcing yourself into it.


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## DitzyDreamer (Jun 10, 2008)

anomalous said:


> Oh, the memories from high school. Not that they aren't still around in college, but at least you aren't forced to ogle over their ilk as much.
> 
> Part of me wouldn't trade anything in the world to be one of them, though. It's probably just a delusional rationalization I've conjured up to justify my borderline-reclusive behavior, but I've always taken a certain degree of pride in spending my spare time how _I_ enjoy spending it, rather than how future admissions officers reviewing my application would have me spend it. *School already eats up enough of our lives as it is, you know? I don't see anything wrong with refusing to let half-assed clubs and sports consume what's left. The pressure in our society to fall in line and spend every waking moment doing something "constructive" has reached the level of absurdity*, IMO.


Are you a brother from another mother?

This is exactly how I feel. I work part-time (8-18 hours a week) _and_ I'm a full-time student (sixteen credit hours) _and _I suffer from endogenous depression, thoughts of suicide, and SA, yet I'm told I should be MORE active and that I should dedicate MORE time to clubs and stuff. The most clubs I could see myself participating in is one. MAYBE two but, I don't want to feel so overwhelmed.

Is it so wrong to just want do well in school (i.e. good grades/participation), but enjoy lounging around, catching some zzzz, watching movies, and just enjoy living?


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## DitzyDreamer (Jun 10, 2008)

Marooned said:


> These are the same feelings I had throughout my three years of college and what ultimately led to my dropping out. I knew that my chances of converting all that knowledge I thought I was gaining into a livelihood or really anything tangible were terrible, so all the anxiety and debt I was incurring seemed unjustifiable.


Oh but you were so close to finishing. Why do three years and not finish up with the fourth? If I were in that situation, I would have just finished up the fourth year and get that Bachelor's Degree, even if it meant racking more debt and being miserable for another year. But that's jmo.



> The bar is set so low in our public schools and grade inflation so rampant that many students never end up with anything but a superficial knowledge that will soon be forgotten and a whole lot of false confidence in their abilities. In truth, the only thing I learned in school was how to play the game and pass the tests. That sad fact of my own experience combined with the myth that we have a meritocracy in this country has left me entirely disillusioned.


Exactly. It is amazing. I've met kids from public schools who boast about having 3.9 GPAs from high school and getting full rides, but they can barely string a cohesive sentence together or write a decent, well-thought out paper. I was lucky to go to a school that kicked my *** all four years. Writing a two-page, five paragraph paper is easy when you have written a ten-page college level research paper in your first year of high school.



> Now that these institutions have gone from providing educations to producing workers, they are largely concerned with the quantity of students they can enroll rather than the quality of the product they're offering. It's all about getting more bodies into overcrowded classes taught by understaffed, underpaid adjuncts and graduate students for ever-increasing fees.


Exactly. There are classes [in my institution] that have over FIVE HUNDRED kids per one professor and three TAs. Classes should be capped at no more than 100, imo.

College, unfortunately, is a business. Gone are the days where a college degree meant the difference between a paycheck to paycheck struggle and a decent, stable life and career.



> The push to get more and more tuition-paying students into the system has not only led to a dumbing down of the standards, but has resulted in a large number of newly minted graduates with few skills competing for jobs that simply don't exist. That graduates who made all the required connections now can't find work and likely never will at the level they were promised or expecting leaves me with few regrets about my decision.
> 
> The reality is that if you're in school for a job, four years is no longer sufficient, and anything beyond that, at least for now and the foreseeable future, isn't likely to be any more fruitful, even less so for those incapable of forming connections with people.


I think that is true to a certain extend. It also depends WHAT you go into. There is a larger demand for scientists, engineers, mathematicians, accountants, nurses, doctors, and public school teachers, and less of a demand for liberal arts/humanities majors. In most cases, however, it is almost a MUST to have a BA as well as an advanced degree.


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## Catlover4100 (Feb 10, 2009)

DitzyDreamer said:


> Are you a brother from another mother?
> 
> This is exactly how I feel. I work part-time (8-18 hours a week) _and_ I'm a full-time student (sixteen credit hours) _and _I suffer from endogenous depression, thoughts of suicide, and SA, yet I'm told I should be MORE active and that I should dedicate MORE time to clubs and stuff. The most clubs I could see myself participating in is one. MAYBE two but, I don't want to feel so overwhelmed.
> 
> Is it so wrong to just want do well in school (i.e. good grades/participation), but enjoy lounging around, catching some zzzz, watching movies, and just enjoy living?


Exactly! I want to get involved with a few things I'm interested in, but I don't want to force myself into things I dislike just because they'll look good on a resume! Frankly, I don't know how I'm ever going to find time to work and still get good grades. I envy the people who can work 20 hours a week and still get a 4.0 effortlessly.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

During my undergrad years, I serendipitously became involved in some unusual projects. This made my CV stand out and produced many interview opportunities. However, my social problems made it nearly impossible to pass interviews, so having the activities on the CV (in addition to the qualifications) proved useless after all.

In my postgrad years, the institution made some activities compulsory; however, I could not partake in them due to my disabilities. I also could not access conferences and networking opportunities for the same reason, meaning my CV became very empty. Networking at conferences is the method of obtaining jobs in my field; not accessing them puts me at a severe disadvantage, and I doubt I can have a career at all that requires such contact with other people.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

anomalous said:


> Applying for grad school last year was a humiliating experience for me. I e-mailed professors asking for letters of recommendation, and some of them I'd spoken to face-to-face maybe once or twice in my life. I don't know how they even managed to write a full letter, because they didn't know anything about me beyond my grades in their courses (and the resume I sent).


Humiliating is the right word. Here are some quotes from the references they gave me (which was _after_ finishing with good grades):

"Pathologically shy"
"Not among our best students"
"Not very intellectually gifted"

There were discrimination issues involved, however, so think my case was unusual. I showed them to a fellow postgrad who thought of me as very intelligent, and he was shocked.


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## mypasswordneverworks (Dec 12, 2008)

I graduated with a Master's degree in finance & 4.0 and no one cared. It's all about who you know. It took me 7 months to land a job and it pays less than the salary to manage a McDonalds. Ridiculous. 

I came to the conclusion that I worked my life away to get those grades & I wasted my youth. I should have been making Cs with the rest of the students who make more money than I do now because they know someone that knows someone.


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