# Is alcohol itself a date-rape drug?



## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

GHB, Rohypnol (and a few other benzos) are drugs with many properties, and they are known to the public mainly as date-rape drugs. However being under the influence of alcohol, even by itself, is much more correlated with drug-facilitated rape. _This is especially true when both genders are under the influence_. See statistics below for more.



> A three-year study in the UK found 32% of 1,014 rape victims (not necessarily DFSA-suspected cases) had alcohol in their urine 12 hours after the assault. Two percent had sedatives (the above "roofies") detected in their urine 12 hours after the assault.
> 
> Toxicological findings in cases of alleged drug-facilitated sexual assault in the United Kingdom over a 3-year period - Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine, Volume 12, Issue 4, August 2005, Pages 175-186





> A study (only of rape victims that were female and reachable by phone) reported detailed findings related to tactics. In 47% of such rapes, both the victim and the perpetrator had been drinking. In 17%, only the perpetrator had been. 7% of the time, only the victim had been drinking. Rapes where neither the victim nor the perpetrator had been drinking were 29% of all rapes.
> 
> Abbey, A., BeShears, R., Clinton-Sherrod, A. M., & McAuslan, P. (2004). Psychology of Women Quarterly, 28, 323-332.


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

TicklemeRingo said:


> Poll needs a "It can be" option.


There already is an "other" option.

The way I personally think of the question is, "how much of a problem is alcohol compared to other drugs usually associated with rape, (as date-rape is the most common form of rape)?" But that's just me, and I like to keep my poll questions short.


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## farfegnugen (Aug 16, 2010)

Guys have been getting girls drunk for a long time to lower their inhibitions, but I think girls have to be willing to drink the alcohol.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Girls know it when they get drunk, and smart ones will know their limit. A girl who's trashed and passed out in an ethylic coma might probably find herself in a situation to be abused, though.

From experience, I'll say GHB is much more efficient at knocking one out than alcohol. A few milliliters of GBL (which your liver converts into GHB), and the urge to close your eyes and dose off because of the general grogginess is very hard to combat. The stuff tastes like s***, it might be hard to mix it in a lady's drink without her noticing - plus it's pretty hard on the stomach. GHB might be a more undetectable tool.

But technically mixing alcohol with any of the drugs you mentioned only makes them more potent - and anecdotally, more deadly.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

The main thing is to avoid creepy guys. Very important to have a functioning creepdar. If you even get slight whiff of creepiness-avoid, avoid!!


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## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

It can be used as one. Sometimes when guys buys you drinks they'll try and slip extra shots in, so you don't necessarily know how much you're drinking. You really have to watch it the whole time.


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## licorice (Oct 5, 2013)

Date-rape drugs are given without consent with the explicit purpose of rendering the victim helpless or susceptible. Alcohol is taken willingly for enjoyment and happens to have side effects. So, no. That's why we say there were date-rape drugs and not just that a woman was raped. We're emphasizing that she was drugged by someone not herself and the drugging was part of the rape.


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

Lol alcohol is not a date-rape drug, date-rape drugs are date-rape drugs. If a creep spikes a girl's drink (which is pretty rare) and is able to get pass all the obstacles (people watching, guys and girls concern over the fellow human beings, thousand of eyes watching a girl that might not be fine, bouncers, club cameras, her friends, etc) then the girl truly has minimal accountability. But if you get blackout drunk, pissing on the street and engaging in clear reckless and ****ty behavior don't blame it on the alcohol though, no one told you to down 12 vodka shots and 6 tequilas.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> Girls know it when they get drunk, and smart ones will know their limit. A girl who's trashed and passed out in an ethylic coma might probably find herself in a situation to be abused, though.
> 
> From experience, I'll say GHB is much more efficient at knocking one out than alcohol. A few milliliters of GBL (which your liver converts into GHB), and the urge to close your eyes and dose off because of the general grogginess is very hard to combat. *The stuff tastes like s****, it might be hard to mix it in a lady's drink without her noticing - plus it's pretty hard on the stomach. GHB might be a more undetectable tool.


You tasted it? :um


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

It could be potentially, if someone was tricked into drinking something. This goes for both gender's too.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

It could be used as such by people.


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

Out of curiosity I wonder what drug is strong enough to be placed on a glass of alcohol, dissolve fast and leave you completely unresponsive after drinking some sips? I know it exist I just have no idea what it's called, seems like some sci-fi sht


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

No


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## Fruitcake (Jan 19, 2012)

Definitions of the term date-rape drug:

"a drug (as GHB) administered surreptitiously (as in a drink) to induce an unconscious or sedated state in a potential date rape victim"
"a drug that causes temporary loss of memory or inhibition, surreptitiously given to a girl or a woman so that her date may sexually abuse or rape her." Just females, Oxford Dictionary?...
"an illegal substance that causes temporary memory loss or impairment so that the victim's escort can carry out a sexual violation"
"Date rape drugs are, any narcotic that is used by a person to facilitate a sexual assault."
"A *date rape drug*, also called a *predator drug*, is any drug that can be used to assist in the execution of drug facilitated sexual assault (DFSA)."

To contribute to this thread, simply choose the definition that best supports the uninformed point you want to make, then ignore/deride/lol at those opposing you who use a different definition. Be sure to never acknowledge the ambiguity of the term.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Here in Las Vegas (or maybe Clark County, don't know which) I believe the law does consider it a date rape drug. Guys that take advantage of drunk girls have been arrested.


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## dontwaitupforme (Feb 23, 2013)

Fruitcake said:


> Definitions of the term date-rape drug:
> 
> "a drug (as GHB) administered surreptitiously (as in a drink) to induce an unconscious or sedated state in a potential date rape victim"
> "a drug that causes temporary loss of memory or inhibition, surreptitiously given to a girl or a woman so that her date may sexually abuse or rape her." Just females, Oxford Dictionary?...
> ...


^^ Spot on


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

lisbeth said:


> It can be used as one. Sometimes when guys buys you drinks they'll try and slip extra shots in, so you don't necessarily know how much you're drinking. You really have to watch it the whole time.


Easy fix: always watch your drink being opened and poured.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I've never had anyone spike my drink. Only once in all my years of drinking did I encounter a couple creepy guys offering a suspicious drink.


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## SupaDupaFly (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah like alcohol is very tasteless and odorless...Totally a date-rape drug.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I suspect house parties are worse than clubs. You aren't allowed to just pass out at a club. They will kick your *** out.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

tbyrfan said:


> Easy fix: always watch your drink being opened and poured.


It's a shame people have to though.
Date-rape is incredibly rare here, but people still learn basic procedures for staying safe.
But I think if I were a girl, I just generally wouldn't accept drinks from strangers (not because of a 'risk' as such, but just because I wouldn't want to give impressions I was interested).. or is that being too boring? :um


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

dontwaitupforme said:


> I agree.
> 
> I don't think alcohol is soley a date rape drug. Just the taking advantage of someone who's clearly wasted is kinda rapey. Regardless of what they're on.


...can I buy you a drink? And can you look *that way* for 5-10 seconds after the bartender pours it for you?

:duck


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## dontwaitupforme (Feb 23, 2013)

the cheat said:


> ...can I buy you a drink? And can you look *that way* for 5-10 seconds after the bartender pours it for you?
> 
> :duck


Cheers man :drunk

*goes cross eyed*

(Dammit. You caught me changing my post.)


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## markwalters2 (Mar 18, 2013)

I guess it depends on your definition of date-rape. Alcohol is more like party-rape drug and requires much more consent and awareness to pass out from.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

dontwaitupforme said:


> Cheers man :drunk
> 
> *goes cross eyed*
> 
> (Dammit. You caught me changing my post.)


You won't feel a thing.  :drunk Aww man, wake up! I need you to slip me a Cialis 

Edited. You're welcome.


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## Dresden (Dec 18, 2013)

_*I drink like a drowning fish..
Nothing bad has ever come of it (except perhaps some marginal liver damage, but that aside) I must be terribly ugly, I can get fall-on-arse drunk and all I get are polite gentlemen offering to give me a hand, which on occasion I've accepted and they have done just that;
I think rape is restricted to a very small percentage of men, most are quite nice to a lady in need.
It's very endearing of them to offer to help when I got in that state all of my own volition.
*_


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## Lacking Serotonin (Nov 18, 2012)

Alcohol is not a date-rape drug or it would be illegal. A lot of people like sex on MDMA, is that a happy date-rape drug???


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

On MDMA you are fully awake. I never was that out of it.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

It can be. 

And rape includes when the victim is incapable of giving proper consent.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

I'm probably going to come off as insensitive but you is a guy buying a girl drinks his fault if she accepts? Doesn't she have all the power to refuse the drink? I never understood how guys get girls drunk unless they force them to drink the alcohol.


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## Kalliber (Aug 18, 2012)

Can be used as one


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## markwalters2 (Mar 18, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> I'm probably going to come off as insensitive but you is a guy buying a girl drinks his fault if she accepts? Doesn't she have all the power to refuse the drink? I never understood how guys get girls drunk unless they force them to drink the alcohol.


Making a person pass out from alcohol is not really a crime. But what happens after that is definitely a crime as it is done without the person's consent.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

markwalters2 said:


> Making a person pass out from alcohol is not really a crime. But what happens after that is definitely a crime as it is done without the person's consent.


I'm not disputing what happens after a girl is passed out. No doubt that's a crime, the thread is asking if alcohol is a date rape drug and I don't know any situations where anyone is forced to drink. I could be wrong its not like I go out every weekend buying drinks or have drinks bought for me.


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## markwalters2 (Mar 18, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> I'm not disputing what happens after a girl is passed out. No doubt that's a crime, the thread is asking if alcohol is a date rape drug and I don't know any situations where anyone is forced to drink. I could be wrong its not like I go out every weekend buying drinks or have drinks bought for me.


My bad. I guess it is arguable it is probably not a date-rape then.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Donnie in the Dark said:


> It can be.
> 
> And rape includes when the victim is incapable of giving proper consent.


 So retarded people are not allowed to have sex?


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

WillYouStopDave said:


> So retarded people are not allowed to have sex?


 Is that a serious comment or are you just being deliberately obtuse?


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## sakiwa (Dec 27, 2013)

Yepp in a way it is


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Donnie in the Dark said:


> Is that a serious comment or are you just being deliberately obtuse?


 Well, I just thought it was an obvious question. Such people do exist. They're not necessarily incapable of making their own decisions but there are people who would argue that they are. There are certain people who are just plain anti-sex all the way across the board so they set out to make the subject of consent so bewildering and hazy it starts to get to the point to where you almost have to have a lawyer present with papers before you have sex.

When you imply that someone who is the slightest bit intoxicated is incapable of giving proper consent that opens the door for a lot of ridiculous arguments. Generally, people who are intoxicated are not incapable of giving consent unless they're either unconscious or very close. There are people who don't handle alcohol very well (like me) but it's their responsibility to know that. People are not usually sneaking alcohol into their system. The vast majority of the time, they choose to consume it and they can choose to stop anytime.

I have only ever been so intoxicated that I didn't know what I was doing once in my life and I actually set out to find out where that limit was and that's why it happened. Other than that, I've been drunk but I still knew what I was doing.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Well, I just thought it was an obvious question. Such people do exist. They're not necessarily incapable of making their own decisions but there are people who would argue that they are. There are certain people who are just plain anti-sex all the way across the board so they set out to make the subject of consent so bewildering and hazy it starts to get to the point to where you almost have to have a lawyer present with papers before you have sex.
> 
> When you imply that someone who is the slightest bit intoxicated is incapable of giving proper consent that opens the door for a lot of ridiculous arguments. Generally, people who are intoxicated are not incapable of giving consent unless they're either unconscious or very close. There are people who don't handle alcohol very well (like me) but it's their responsibility to know that. People are not usually sneaking alcohol into their system. The vast majority of the time, they choose to consume it and they can choose to stop anytime.
> 
> I have only ever been so intoxicated that I didn't know what I was doing once in my life and I actually set out to find out where that limit was and that's why it happened. Other than that, I've been drunk but I still knew what I was doing.


 It's something that has to be judged, there isn't a cutoff point at which the person is officially incapable. 
I think it's okay for people to have sex when drunk- it's pretty common, and as long as they are capable of deciding whether or not they want to (again, a grey area). 
But anyone having sex with someone who is obviously _too drunk_ to make a proper decision is running a risk, and "I didn't mean to rape that person" isn't a wonderful defence in court.

Interestingly, I don't know about in the USA, but in UK law, it is technically
not possible for a woman to rape a man. Sexual assault, yes, but not rape.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Donnie in the Dark said:


> It's something that has to be judged, there isn't a cutoff point at which the person is officially incapable.
> I think it's okay for people to have sex when drunk- it's pretty common, and as long as they are capable of deciding whether or not they want to (again, a grey area).


 Well, I'm glad to see that drunk people have your permission to consent to sex but I have a better idea. How about this. Why don't we just say that it's none of our business unless somebody actually makes a rape claim and we are sitting on the jury? At which point the only thing that matters is that the person feels that they were raped and whether or not the jury believes them. The judge can and should give this instruction. The jury is allowed to use it's own discretion so the law is flexible enough to apply to individual cases.



> But anyone having sex with someone who is obviously _too drunk_ to make a proper decision is running a risk, and "I didn't mean to rape that person" isn't a wonderful defence in court.


 I happen to agree and personally, I wouldn't take the risk because my freedom is worth more to me than a few minutes worth of friction. I just happen to believe the other person should be expected to use common sense as well.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Calling alcohol a date rape drug is like calling aids a weight loss regime.


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## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

Paper Samurai said:


> Calling alcohol a date rape drug is like calling aids a weight loss regime.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

scooby said:


>


Lol, I loved that episode. :teeth


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Paper Samurai said:


> Calling alcohol a date rape drug is like calling aids a weight loss regime.


That's a good analogy. You know, if you ignore the fact that no one gets AIDS to lose weight and that there are guys who get girls drunk to have sex with them.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

nubly said:


> That's a good analogy. You know, if you ignore the fact that no one gets AIDS to lose weight and that there are guys who get girls drunk to have sex with them.


 That's a good argument. If you believe girls are stupid and don't have any idea what guys are up to.

Personally, I think females are generally brighter than they're given credit for.


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