# What can replace a benzo for anxiety??



## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

Hi all,

I have been on clonazepam for over a year (2-3x per week) and over a month every day for my anxiety - and am concerned about tolerance and addiction issues 9I realize it may already be too late and a slow taper may be required)....

Is there anything that can replace a benzo for my GAD ?

Any SSRIs that may help??
Lyrica?? 

I am not sure wellbutrin will help with any of my symptoms but am trying it since it doesn't seem to be hell to come off in a month if it proves to be ineffective. 

Also RE the ritalin - that helps my ADD but is probably partly the cause for my anxiety also LOL..

My pdoc is open to pretty much whatever I want to do 

On the one hand, everything seems to have issues when stopping, including SSRIs and Lyrica. Also everything seems to have some form of tolerance issues. So is the clonazepam so bad IF it continues being effective for me?? I realize thats a big "if", but am just weighing my options.... 

Any help or feedback is much appreciated,
Thanks and have a great day


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

For what its worth, memantine looks promosing for benzo dependency.

Otherwise if lyrica works try to cycle it with the benzo.


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

crayzyMed said:


> For what its worth, memantine looks promosing for benzo dependency.
> 
> Otherwise if lyrica works try to cycle it with the benzo.


Thanks crayzymed (love the name)

Will speak to my pdoc about mementime...

Am not sure how lyrica works to be honest LOL.. I heard it needs to be taken consistently to get over the foggy head and initial side effects, and I never stuck to it for more then a day. But that can be another option as well if it works for me...

Thanks


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Lyrica has major tolerance issues as well, for people that take it for epilepsy getting over the foggy head can be a good thing, but i suspect that for us getting over the foggy head is the same as getting over the anxiolytic effects, i dont think its very good to take it daily due to the tolerance issues, cycling it with benzo's can work tough.

It mainly binds with the a2 subunit but i'm not sure how it exactly works, indirectly acts on gaba and glutamate.


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

crayzyMed said:


> Lyrica has major tolerance issues as well, for people that take it for epilepsy getting over the foggy head can be a good thing, but i suspect that for us getting over the foggy head is the same as getting over the anxiolytic effects, i dont think its very good to take it daily due to the tolerance issues, cycling it with benzo's can work tough.
> 
> It mainly binds with the a2 subunit but i'm not sure how it exactly works, indirectly acts on gaba and glutamate.


Good point 

How would you suggest cycling it?? How often?
Again provided it works (I will need to test it for a few days to see)

Thanks


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I think taking clonazepam one week and then lyrica a week should work, cycling sooner wont as clonazepam stays in your system for quite a long time.

I dont really have experience with benzo's, i think there a few members here that only take klonopin a couple times a week or take regular breaks, if they could post their experience, then you can go from there and then add lyrica the days they normally took a day off.


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

hanzsolo said:


> Good point
> 
> How would you suggest cycling it?? How often?
> Again provided it works (I will need to test it for a few days to see)
> ...


Pregabalin usually stops to work very soon, after 2-3 days in most cases. 2 day on lyrica, and 2 days on benzo keeps my tolerance at bay.


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

JohnG said:


> Pregabalin usually stops to work very soon, after 2-3 days in most cases. 2 day on lyrica, and 2 days on benzo keeps my tolerance at bay.


And what dose do you take of lyrica, 150mg ???

Tks


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

^^ For many the anxiolytic effects do indeed remain, while for others they also fade away, we see simular things with amphetamine for ADHD on addforums.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I doubt the dose or alcohol makes the difference, its mainly userdependent imo, altough it is possible that ppl up the dose to chase a relaxed feeling, while the real anxiolytic effects are still there, this will definatly lead to tolerance, but i'm sure this isnt the case for everyone and some do in fact get tolerant to the anxiolytic effects.

Gabapentin looks pretty weak imo, lyrica does seem to work for quite a few ppl, but i'm not too convinced about its older brother.


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

I will test some lyrica this week and share my experience in relation to the benzos....
What dose do you suggest starting with ?


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

JohnG said:


> Pregabalin usually stops to work very soon, after 2-3 days in most cases. 2 day on lyrica, and 2 days on benzo keeps my tolerance at bay.


Interesting, 2-3 day cycling would not even get the clonazepam out of my system, would it ???

Is this what's working for you?

And do you find lyrica as aeffective as clonazepam for anxiety?

At what dose??

Thanks


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## burner00 (Oct 11, 2009)

Look for Etifoxine or Grandaxin. Both have very limited addiction/dependency properties. They are termed as benzos but structurally and molecularly they are very different.

Former is, imagine klonopin without the sedating effects and latter is an energizing benzo. ooh yeah. Now that's rare.

I would say Etifoxine is a better alternative to benzos from personal experience although grandaxin is also worth a try


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

hanzsolo said:


> Interesting, 2-3 day cycling would not even get the clonazepam out of my system, would it ???
> 
> Is this what's working for you?
> 
> ...


75mg-150mg , you can start with that dose.


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

burner00 said:


> Look for Etifoxine or Grandaxin. Both have very limited addiction/dependency properties. They are termed as benzos but structurally and molecularly they are very different.
> 
> Former is, imagine klonopin without the sedating effects and latter is an energizing benzo. ooh yeah. Now that's rare.
> 
> I would say Etifoxine is a better alternative to benzos from personal experience although grandaxin is also worth a try


Thanks for the post, very interesting...
Any idea if either of them are available in Canada??


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> For what its worth, memantine looks promosing for benzo dependency.
> 
> Otherwise if lyrica works try to cycle it with the benzo.


Memantine? the drug for Alzheimer's right? What does it do in terms of dependancy and stopping it? Is there an ingredient in there that does something as well as being anti Alzheimer's so to speak? or is it the way it blocks the distribution of Glutamate which is what transmits messages between the nerve cells am i right?


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## burner00 (Oct 11, 2009)

hanzsolo said:


> Thanks for the post, very interesting...
> Any idea if either of them are available in Canada??


Ask your local pharmacist best case scenario they might be available OTC worst you might have to beg your psychiatrist. :b

Basically where i live both of them are easily obtainable in other words OTC.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Arisa1536 said:


> Memantine? the drug for Alzheimer's right? What does it do in terms of dependancy and stopping it? Is there an ingredient in there that does something as well as being anti Alzheimer's so to speak? or is it the way it blocks the distribution of Glutamate which is what transmits messages between the nerve cells am i right?


Its NMDA (a receptor glutamate acts on) wich mostly causes dependency and tolerance, with memantine you can block tolerance and minimalise or even block getting dependent on certain meds.

On bluelight a few members are coming off benzo's thx to the use of NMDA antagonists:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=501875


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

If the clonazepam is working then why bother going and changing it up!? I was on high doses before and tried replacing it with other things like lyrica, vistaril, ssri's, mood stabilizers and I ended up going back on the clonazepam..I am on .375mg a day now for the last couple of months and this dose is working good. I think managing your benzo and taking little as needed can help. With me the clonazepam doesn't give me a tolerance effect and .375mg in the morning works for me after a few months so it all depends on the person.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

um if you are looking to replace a benzo for anxiety the options are limited unfortunately
I mean medicinally you have Zopiclone and non-benzodiazepine drugs which are also addictive but not as much OR something like Trazadone which helps you sleep and does not have the awful antipsychotic potent sedation and hunger

I personally have resorted to herbal highs as my doc wont give me anything not even another antidepressant 

My husband and I take Kratom for anxiety/depression/ocd everything really
it works wonderfully, if you do not take it daily as tolerance builds but its nothing compared to benzo tolerance. 
There different types of kratom too
Ilex guayusa is also good as its safe and non addictive and you can take it daily
it smells like tea leaves and can be eaten or made into a tea. Its basically caffeine but with better side effects and it promotes a healthy long nights sleep if you take it in the morning

there are a bunch of alkaloids in Ilex guayusa and there is also Syrian Rue which has MAO properties, we have ordered some along with the Ilex which we already tried and stand by


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

Canadian4Life said:


> If the clonazepam is working then why bother going and changing it up!? I was on high doses before and tried replacing it with other things like lyrica, vistaril, ssri's, mood stabilizers and I ended up going back on the clonazepam..I am on .375mg a day now for the last couple of months and this dose is working good. I think managing your benzo and taking little as needed can help. With me the clonazepam doesn't give me a tolerance effect and .375mg in the morning works for me after a few months so it all depends on the person.


Thanks for the advice, and good point you bring up..

I guess I worry that I will have tolerance issues at some point, and/or have some other side effect from them (not that my other meds don't have mile long side effect profiles haha 

Was just thinking of some alternate solutions, but so far benzos work best for me in my regime, and I've tried tons of other things. Of course if and when I need to taper, that will be a long and gruelling process, but I'm not there now 

Will stay status quo for now ....


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

Arisa1536 said:


> um if you are looking to replace a benzo for anxiety the options are limited unfortunately
> I mean medicinally you have Zopiclone and non-benzodiazepine drugs which are also addictive but not as much OR something like Trazadone which helps you sleep and does not have the awful antipsychotic potent sedation and hunger
> 
> I personally have resorted to herbal highs as my doc wont give me anything not even another antidepressant
> ...


Thanks arisa 

Will look into those and possibly test them out soon, sounds interesting and may warrant a trial...

Hope alls well with you


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

49erJT said:


> Some people have no problems at all. Unfortunately, the ones that do have problems tend to have it really bad. Tapering has not been that bad for me.


Thanks and you raise a good point. I unfortunately fall under the ones that have it really bad 

I tried stopping clonazepam for a self imposed med break after 2 months of daily usage, and by the 5th day I had terrible anxiety and could barely function. And that was taking 0.5mg tabs x3 per day, not a huge dose, and rotating with lyrica every 10-14 days for a few days.

Anyways I knew there was a risk when I started them, and truth be told, if I can maintain an 8/10 daily rating and somehow not develop a tolerance due to the memantine, then I'll be very happy. Also provided I don't develop any other side effects lol..

Always a trade off with meds, there is no easy route, but there's a route nonetheless :boogie


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## Jovie (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi,
Reducing Klonopin can be very dangerous and is almost always painful. If you would like any help/advice or have any questions please PM me, since I've been there done that....

As for your original question, during my taper of Klonopin and in wd I am now using Holy Basil for the anxiety. It is a safe herb that really helps with the stress and anxiety. No it does not feel like the benzo, but it still works amazingly well. I also take Passion Flower for sleep (also helps with anxiety and depression). There are homeopathic remedies out there that work too. If you're interested just ask. 

J


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

hanzsolo said:


> Thanks arisa
> 
> Will look into those and possibly test them out soon, sounds interesting and may warrant a trial...
> 
> Hope alls well with you


Thanks hanz 
yeah I am okay i guess but medication still proves an issue :no it always will i guess but yeah Ilex and kratom are good and legal to import unless you live in poland or australia or norway of all places. They are helpful as an alternative to benzos but you can take too much and then you throw up but its not as damaging as a high dose antipsychotic but i guess the effects are not as potent as a benzo in a high dose. high dose kratom tends to give you the jitters, nausea and bad insomnia so its finding the right amount which at first is usually 2-6 grams and no more then when you get used to it, never go above 20 grams, we did and regretted it as the insomnia and nausea was horrible, you also get the famous opiate itching all over your skin but ilex does not do that, its relatively safer IMO


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

As most know, I use KPIN on a as needed basis, primarily for work. I am very strict of it on weekends, so at least I am clean. I feel like my body clears itself at the end of the week and if the week is calm, I dont' take any medication.

I actually find .50MG to be very strong and it lasts me for 2-3 days depending as I can feel the effects of it.


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## InThe519 (Sep 21, 2009)

I was on 0.5mg x 1 daily for 2-3 years and about 3-4 months ago I cut my dose in half and am now doing 0.25mg x 1 daily. 

I had only a few side effect early like nausea, vomiting and sleep disturbances. But now nothing. I actually feel more alert, awake and not as zoned out.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## decadeAndAHalfOfSA (Jul 11, 2011)

SSRIs in general, Buspar, propranolol. Get off the clonazepam now via water titration tapering. I took it for years and built up a tolerance and then went to Xanax and built up a tolerance much faster and had rebound anxiety and insomnia, etc.

Have been slowly tapering of benzos for almost a couple years and I have 30 mg of Valium left to go.

Read the horror stories and get help here:
http://benzowithdrawal.com/forum/


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

Phenibut is pretty effective for anxiety but withdrawals and addiction are possible problems..

ive always wondered what do long term benzo users do when the benzos stop working??everyone says never take benzos long term but if no other meds work, what are they supposed to do??just deal with the anxiety and push thru it??


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

^^yes but from what ive gathered it seems the majority of people(75% and upwards) cannot use benzos long term without either letting their tolerance get out of control or the drug poops out on them...what do they do then?


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## feelalone (May 1, 2010)

burner00 said:


> Look for Etifoxine or Grandaxin. Both have very limited addiction/dependency properties. They are termed as benzos but structurally and molecularly they are very different.
> 
> Former is, imagine klonopin without the sedating effects and latter is an energizing benzo. ooh yeah. Now that's rare.
> 
> I would say Etifoxine is a better alternative to benzos from personal experience although grandaxin is also worth a try


Do you notice any cross tolerance between Etifoxine and benzos?


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## Xtcismygo2 (May 14, 2017)

Can someone pm me and let me know where I can purchase lyrica online (it's too expensive here in the US).


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