# Xanax is for me



## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

Hello everyone. I am bipolar and suffer from anxiety that contributes to depression. I currently am prescribed xanax .5mg 3x a day and it works really well for me. I hear about the the problems associated with addiction and it really isnt an issue for me because i take as needed and as prescribed by my psychiatrist. I am also aware of my intake of the medication and am careful about how much i ingest. I take the xanax everyday and do not miss doses because it keeps my mania leveled and i feel normal when im on the medication. I like how the half life is not in my body long because i feel it keeps me from getting too loopy. Which was always the problem when i was first prescribed klonopin. The xanax seems to bring a great sense of quietness and calmness to my counsciousness and allows me to take on the day and get things done. Ive also noticed my organizations skills have got much better, i now organize my days and am not afraid to do so. Usually i w/ out meds my days are scrambled and i can never seem to get things done. :boogie

My doctor started me out on .25mg twice a day then after a few weeks i was able to get .5mg twice a day. after going back a month later i asked to have my doses increased to 3x a day because i felt it would help. It definately did help having an extra pill for the day to take and keep the medication in my blood to sustain a level-headed approach on my days. However, my doctor told me she would not go any higher then .5mg 3x a day. 

It has now been a few months since then and i believe that if i could have 1mg 3x a day it would help even more especially with my sleep, or even just an extra .5mg pill a day. The problem is my doctor already told me a few months back that she would not increase the dosage any more. Probably because she knows it is a powerful drug and doesnt want me to get really addicted or anything im not sure. 

My doctor knows im responsible with my meds though i have been with the doctor for months now and take drug tests to ensure the doctor i am taking my medication and not anything else. I want to ask to increase my dosage but because she already told me she wouldnt a few months back im afraid that she will assume im getting addicted or just straight up cut my meds..because i am very thankful for the meds im recieveing and it does help me greatly with my days of depression, panic attacks and sleep problems. Im not sure if its worth taking the chance of asking for an increase in dosage or not, has anyone had a similar dilemma? 

Im scared to ask because i have had so many issues with psychiatrists prescribing me all kinds of medications that never worked and now that i have found a good medication i know works and a psychiatrist willing to prescribe this medication i dont want to lose such a beneficial medication.


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## Dlee (Apr 22, 2012)

I guess I'm in the same situation as you. I'm very quiet around new people. I over think everything . I'm scared of medications but I'm startin to see no other wat out of this weird way of thinking. So I asked my doctor to prescribe me Xanax or Valium but she refused because she figured it's addictive. So she prescribed me loxapine instead. My whole point is Idc if I get addicted to it. As long as I can think clearly and make new friends I'm ok with it. But is it truly addictive tho? Can you stop when you want?


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## Cletis (Oct 10, 2011)

Glad it helps. You probably won't get addicted to it as you sound responsible.


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

Omg 

Being responsible has nothing to do with your GABA receptors 
Why would anyone need that much Xanax ? 

1mg Xanax = 20 mg Valium 

Try getting off those big amounts. 

Benzos should not be used as a lifestyle they are for short term use only.


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## Hypo (Mar 16, 2012)

d829 said:


> Omg
> 
> Being responsible has nothing to do with your GABA receptors
> Why would anyone need that much Xanax ?
> ...


According to my psychiatrist 0.5mg Xanax is equal to 5mg Diazepam


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*yep*

:banana

welllll.... they are for short term use supposedly but honestly i feel if someone needs it to help with their disorder, as i am bipolar with terrible depression, mania episodes and severe panic attacks... then i believe that it is fine for long term use as long as your monitoring your intake and careful because it is a powerful drug and can easily be misused.

as far as being addictive, yes it can be, just like any other great drug that does a lot of good for people; of course until they let the drug take over their lives and start taking extreme amounts. its a matter of balancing.

i try to make myself suffer sometimes and not take the xanax, just to remember how bad things can get because i believe that medications will never cure mental disorders, you have to feel what your feeling to get it out in the first place.. i think. and then medicate to release the stress of it all.. i think. lol. im in this thing too i mean idk really know this is just what ive learned.. and i mean if your bottling up all the **** in a bottle for too long then itll just all come out at once one dayy i dont know.. im just talking but i think this is sort of true. but anyways not ttaking the medication sometiems also helps me with actual coping skills for my disorder so i do try to put the xanax bottle away from time to time to feel the **** that is actually in my brain as scary as it can be sometimes but all in all i think that is a good thing.

on another note, most addiction stories seem to be from huge amounts of xanax being taken.. its amazing to hear how much xanax some people take, i mean it does affect some people differently and they need more but idk most addiction from this medication happens when theres large amounts being taken over and over again or peoploel just trying to get high. for me it doesnt make me high, it makes me feel normal honestly, i mean yes their is a sense of euphoria, but i believe that helps me with my depression when that happens.

anyways.. ive decided to stick with my normal .5mg 3x a day doses. i think this is a great dose to keep me at and it has been working so i shouldnt fix what aint broke. i just thought extra xanax to have around wouldnt hurt because i am responsible. im also in my 20s when i was younger i dont think i could have evere be responsible enough to take xanax i dont know.. it really depends on where youve been and ive been to the bottom many many times so im at the point in life where i just want everything to work out and not trying to **** everything up all the time.. not that im perfect cus im definately not, my deep seeded personality problems still come out every once ina while.. again mental disorders i dont think are ever cured, they just have to be managed.

loxapine doesnt sound like a terrible medication. i dont know i have never taken that before.. ive been on depakote, celexa, klonopin, valium, a few mood stablizers i really cant remember but i would if i saw the name probably, also a few antipyschotics my friends have given me that made me feel really ****ing weird. ive tried ativan too my friends have had and wow that was a great experience it worked really well for me it seemed but never prescribed it.. by the way that was when i was not on any meds so i was trying whatever i could get to keep myself sane.:twak


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

I've not developed tolerance to the same daily dose of alprazolam; I believe this is because I take it all at once, so it's mostly or entirely eliminated by the time I redose. Be careful if you're taking it over the entire day - benzodiazepine withdrawal can kill you.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

blues85-sure xanax helps you great right now and tomorrow and the next day but what about 2-3 months down the road when tolerance creeps up and u need to raise the dosage??then more time goes and u need to raise again..then u get to the point where u take the xanax just to not feel withdrawals...now you are in trouble and kicking benzos is no easy feat.

if you are taking benzos every day you are dependant at least..


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

I guess people gotta learn for themselves. Too bad so many people don't listen to the ones who walked this path before them. 

Good luck with it but let me say again no matter how responsible of a person you are you have absolutely no control over your GABA and what these pill do. 

The least amount of time you are on them the better.


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

Hypo said:


> According to my psychiatrist 0.5mg Xanax is equal to 5mg Diazepam


90% of the equivalency charts say your doctor is wrong.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

belfort said:


> blues85-sure xanax helps you great right now and tomorrow and the next day but what about 2-3 months down the road when tolerance creeps up and u need to raise the dosage??then more time goes and u need to raise again..then u get to the point where u take the xanax just to not feel withdrawals...now you are in trouble and kicking benzos is no easy feat.
> 
> if you are taking benzos every day you are dependant at least..


lopcornlol. really?? some people are just plain ignorant. like i said ive been taking this medication (xanax) for months. 6 months to be exact. and i have been on .5 mg 3x day now for 3 months. so you can just shut it. i have been perfectly fine taking this medication for bipolar disorder. it works for me now and its continued to work for me for months now.

just because you cant handle the xanax and turn into a junky over it dont get me tangled up in your ****. or maybe your just not very intelligent or maybe you just like to bash good things. i dont know and i dont care. im healthy, i take xanax daily, i have bipolar and it helps. no probs.:boogie


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

Sounds like you are the one who is ignorant 

Good luck with your 3x a day Xanax.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

d829 said:


> Sounds like you are the one who is ignorant
> 
> Good luck with your 3x a day Xanax.


Will you visit him in rehab? :teeth


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

If you increase the dose the way you want to, eventually you'll end up doing doses over 4mgs several times a day. I've been there. Tell your doctor that maybe you need a longer acting benzo like clonazepam or diazepam, they last longer, you won't have to take them more than twice a day, twice tops. They both relieve anxiety, they're different than Xanax though, they don't hit you quite fast, they are more of a gradual come up and come down, instead of the fast come up and come down that Xanax has.

You have to notice that you want to increase the dose, you'll always want to increase the dose as soon as the current one doesn't cut it anymore, you'll think "it's not enough anymore, maybe add 0.5mg more" repeat this a few times, and you're taking +6mg a day. Then whenever you miss a dose you get sort of sick, that's when it hits you "I'm a freaking drug addict".

Try some long-acting benzos, or at least talk to your doctor about them, they help with anxiety too, I know.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*Live Life Free*

:group
yeahh im not sure. valium worked very well it seemed but ive just been using this xanax. its quick in and out of my system seems to keep me more level then the constant feelingof a benzo pumping through my veins constantly even when i dont take it thje next day.

however, i can see the benefits of a longer acting benzo because it would require me to take less. and probablyless anxiousness on my does.

however, when i take a just a few of these or just one in the morning which is usually what i do when i wake up because i have bad night terrors and sleep problems and wake up with naseua for some reason.. 
but yeah i take one or two or even half im starting to self weean myself down when i know my meds are running low or giving me tolerance and then i make a quick hot black tea drink and i feel wonderful. my anxiety for the day sweeps away and i dont take any more until night time or close to bed time so i can have it kick in right in time my my night or sleep pattern i maintain on this wonderful medication.

which is a great thing for me when i can just take a nap when i need to because my sleep can get so messed up.

i hhave taking diazepam before. it did work very wonderful because there wwere many days i didnt even have to take it the next day after dosing the day before because of the long half life it has. diazepam im definately not against been on it before but since ive had a new doc she prefers xanax fjor me because its simple in and out clears my anxiety and is stronger than othe benzos so it really defeats my crazy panic and mania episodes. i wouldnt be against taking diazepam again. but i just feel liek the xanax works well for me now i dont feel a tolerance although i know it does build up fast with xanax, probably= dont get much a tolerance though because xanax effects me quite strongly, i think the short half life in xanax is the bigger problem because it leaves so quickly.. ive felt like that keeps me ona evel keel though dont seem to get any rebound anxiety from it because i drink hot black tea and i think that helps me mellow out the xanax effects..possibly.

thank you for all the comments by the way, negative or positive.

:heartMuch Love All.:heart


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

On a another note. i refuse to take klonopin. it makes me way to crazy and my mania just increases for some reason on clonazepam. so if i were to try a longer acting benzo it would be valium or ativan. but i would need it to be strong, higher mg because my problems do not subside enough at low doses of these less potent benzos. but obviously my doctor would have to do an equivalant dosage anyways to keep me on an even keel with my management of my disorder.
:kiss


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

This thread seems lie a "benzo danger" thread. ie. "stranger danger." let's spread hysteria about benzos. Some people have problems with them and for some people they are a lifesaver. I am on 30 mg valium and 5 mg xanax per day and have been at this dose for 2 years. I've never had to raise my dose due to tolerance. I think the reason I need to take so much is because my gaba receptors are way off and lower doses of benzos didn't weren't effective at stopping panic attacks, reducing a general anxiety that was so bad I just stayed in bed all day and couldn't eat or do anything, and I was unable to sleep. 

So I didn't start on low doses, build up a tolerance and continually raise my dose. When I began seeking medical help low doses of benzos just didn't help so I started at these relatively high doses. and without them I probably would have killed myself a long time ago.

Benzo withdrawal is dangerous. Some people abuse benzos. Everybody's brains are different, and some people have some serious problems for which taking benzos long term is the best solution they have found so far. I am still working hard to find better medications that are more helpful and I would like to quit these pills someday.

My point is it is not our place to judge one persons medication. I hate seeing a new psychologist or psychiatrist and being chastised for my benzo use. Psychiatrists have told me they are "angry at me for being on benzos, because I have such a severe and longterm problem," I've been told that benzos should only be used "if I'm nervous because my mother in law is coming to visit." and that, "well being on all those benzos it's amazing you're even walking." In my experience it is far better to be on benzos 24/7 than to experience the agony of severe anxiety. If anxiety makes life completely unlivable then living on benzos seems to be the lesser of two evils compared with not living at all. Same goes for only using them short term vs. long term. If you need them long term and they remain helpful long term then why not? I think it is unethical to deny a helpful medication to someone who is suffering. When we find a more effective medication without the potential problems of benzos then we can taper off. I thought that this was a support forum. It's good to be educated on all aspects of a medication that you are taking, but I think it is bad to draw lines in that sand about what is right and wrong when it comes to treating mental illness. We are all different, requiring different treatments. It is good to share knowledge and information but unhelpful to fear monger and make universal statements regarding treatment.


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## 67budp (Mar 1, 2012)

I took Xanax a couple of times and it did nothing for me. Maybe it was because I had a few drinks first.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

blues85 said:


> However, my doctor told me she would not go any higher then .5mg 3x a day.


If it was a male doc I'd suggest Dr. Wuss grow a pair. Not sure how to insult a female doc who sets some silly arbitrary limit. Does she live in a world where anxiety obediently never goes above some arbitrary level?



blues85 said:


> Probably because she knows *it is a powerful drug* and doesnt want me to get really addicted or anything im not sure.


Powerfull -- I wish.



> ...take drug tests to ensure the doctor i am taking my medication and not anything else.


What!?! Any others reading this need to take drugs tests? I'd be insulted & furious if a doctor demanded I pee in a cup. It would make me feel like filling that cup to the brim & tossing it in their face.


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

istayhome said:


> I am on 30 mg valium and 5 mg Xanax .


We are spreading hysteria ?

You're in denial.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

total denial, I am such a self-indulging junkie. Boy isn't it great being hooked on pills and unable live a life worth living. Is this forum really a place to point fingers and pass judgments based on the number of pills in someones bottle? re-read that post, beyond the first sentence.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*happiness*

*istayhome*, i agree with you totally. im glad someone out there is sensable in the world of treating mental illness. :clap.

if i need daily doses of xanax to keep myself in the right state of mind, then thats just what works for me.

same goes for me as well with my benzo use, if it was not for these xanax i take im not sure i would have lived to be in my 20's. they have helped me tremendously in being able to be myself and stay organized with my mind and daily chores/errands. it keeps my mood swings in check and helps my depression because im not so worried about everything going on in the world and can think simplicity. if that makes sense.

also, im sure my doc would give me a higher dose if i felt i needed it, shes very understanding and is great to talk to. she knows it helps because she sees me every month and i remain happy and am no long cutting myself to relieve painful depression episodes. oh and by the way cutting yourself isnt for attention, i used to cut myself to just feel something and it made me feel like it relieved my depression. now i take xanax daily and i dont cut myself anymore and i dont find myself walking the streets monotonously just to escape something thats not even there. i can sit at home and read or study or just relax and do chores with my cat. and when i want to go out and socialize i actually make plans and am not so scatter brained like i was when i was off meds.

and about the drug tests, yeah most places dont drug test, my doc actually doesnt drug test me anymore i think that my doc just wanted to establish some trust i suppose. now i just go in and dont need to pee in a cup and we just talk and she refills my script once we have our discussion.

i love my psychiatrist. sometimes its hard to find a good one who atleast understands a little bit and can prescribe a good medication that really works and i am very happy with mine. she always gives me a positive outlook and i leave with a smile on my face because she is pretty down to earth which i think helps. the best thing with psychiatrists is just not to mess up a script, once a psych sees or hears or thinks your abusing meds thats when the problems begin, but ive learned if you stay resposible with your meds and explain yourself then a great relationship with your doctor happens where their is a level of trust and some understanding of your mental disoder.

also, i feel like my xanax has made me more responsible because i am more homely and organize my thoughts and dont get involved with people that are just not worth it, because i tell you what there are a lot of people out there that are just haters and they want to bring you down with them ive learned. and i stay away from those people, thats when i say you know what, im ok, and im going to ignore this group of people or this person because i know it will bring me down to a bad place, and i can find people who are understanding or atleast not complete tool bags with disaster in their eyes.

:heartmuch love:heart

.:stay cool:.


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## DreamAway (Apr 29, 2012)

I have been taking benzo's for approximately 7 years now, the last few years I have tried multiple times to taper off them but my anxiety becomes so pronounced that I am back on them within a month or so. I want to quit them because they mess with my memory and I don't get the enjoyment out of things that I used to. 
At the moment I am taking 1.5 - 2mg of Alprazolam (Xanax) daily, and trying to taper off once again... 
Once you're physically dependent, benzodiazepines are very very difficult to 'come off' - I would hope that you don't use them *long term* until you have explored ALL other possibilities of treatment. 
Good luck dude!


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> What!?! Any others reading this need to take drugs tests? I'd be insulted & furious if a doctor demanded I pee in a cup. It would make me feel like filling that cup to the brim & tossing it in their face.


No, and I think it's pretty ridiculous that that person has to.


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## DreamAway (Apr 29, 2012)

I have been asked to piss in a cup, but I guess my appearance doesn't help... sleeves etc


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## Tyler Bro (Apr 27, 2012)

So does Xanax help you, lets say from a scale on 1-10?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah, psychiatrists drug testing is total bs. I have personally never been drug tested by a p-doc. It doesn't seem like it would lay the groundwork for trust, it would do just the opposite. You as the patient would be immediately put in the position of feeling that the psych doesn't trust you and you have to prove to them you are telling the truth. Not a healthy therapeutic relationship, a harmful one.

I had an older brother who was a medical marijuana patient. He was suicidal and he was turning into a paranoid schizophrenic. Really, I remember hanging out with him and he'd be totally convinced that there were "people" trying to kill him. He thought all of his spam email was being sent to him containing some secret code from the people that were after him. It was scary to see. My family finally got him to a psychiatrist. The Psychiatrist told my brother that he would have to quit using marijuana for at least two months before the p-doc would even see him again. A couple weeks later my brother committed suicide. Psychiatrists can really do a lot of harm. Any doctor who has taken the Hippocratic needs to be damn careful in how they treat psychiatric patients. I know I bared my soul to a couple psychiatrists only to leave with more problems (and less money) than when I walked in the door.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*live your life*

thats terrible *istayhome*. when i first went into treatment i told my psych straight up i smoke marijuana because it helps my anxiety and depression. and it really does, if i lived in a state where i could be prescribed marijuana i would do that instead because its natural.

my doctor had no problem with the fact that i smoked marijuana and understood completely. a lot of doctors do, but their are still those naive doctors with old beliefs and just ingorant minds of black and white thinking. i steer clear from those doctors, they are living in the 1950's still and should themselves be reavaluated for their own sanity in being a certified doctor or psychiatrist.:twak
my next visit im going to ask for an increase in dosage and i dont think she would have a problem with it being ive been a responsible patient with her for over 6months now. im just going to let her know that this medication is so great and i would like to have a higher dosage because it helps tremendously and a higher dose or extra pill would be very beneficial. i dont think she would disagree being i have showed so much imiprovement in my lifestyle and my outlook on life.

:heartmuch love take it slow:heart


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

d829 said:


> Omg
> 
> Being responsible has nothing to do with your GABA receptors
> Why would anyone need that much Xanax ?
> ...


1. Patients differ greatly in their response to meds, severity of their condition & amounts needed greatly differ.

2. 1 mg Xanax = 10 mg Valium: This is what you'll find in the vast majority of equivalency charts, and I'd agree based upon personal experience. Ashton -- the fanatical old hag from the UK -- might be the only one who feels it's a 1 to 20 equivalency.

3. Short-term only, because anxiety is a short term problem.:roll Long-term you simply must use SSRIs because severe sexual side effects are fantastic! Why would anyone want an orgasm? Libido is so overrated too. And doesn't matter if other drugs cause ED, since with no libido & no ability to orgasm, you have no need to get it up anyhow.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

blues85 said:


> thats terrible *istayhome*. when i first went into treatment i told my psych straight up i smoke marijuana because it helps my anxiety and depression.


In most cases saying that would be a bad choice given the negative reaction that's quite possible. I know someone who had to pee in a cup last year to keep her small Ativan supply flowing as in family therapy a few years back her mother had made brief mention of how her daughter smoked pot once in a while. I'd emphasize the once in a while part -- far removed from a "pot head" with grow house in basement & smoke filling the air.

I agree with those above who've noted such tests create an adversarial relationship that's detrimental to providing the most effective medical care. The ideal would be for doctor & patient to feel comfortable with each other and work as a team toward a common goal of making that patient healthy. Open & honest communication is vital to that end, and you're sure not going to get it with a policy of "anything you or your pee says can & will be used against you." If a tiny trace of pot is found in your pee then you'd be a "junkie." If you're a drunk who get's s***faced every night, well, then you're a upstanding pillar of the community 'cause you don't do illegal drugs.



blues85 said:


> ...and it really does, if i lived in a state where i could be prescribed marijuana i would do that instead because its natural.


I'd disagree with your assertion that automatically natural = good, but agree that you should use whatever works for you.



blues85 said:


> my doctor had no problem with the fact that i smoked marijuana and understood completely.


Nice that you found an MD that has a connection to reality.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> 1. Patients differ greatly in their response to meds, severity of their condition & amounts needed greatly differ.
> 
> 2. 1 mg Xanax = 10 mg Valium: This is what you'll find in the vast majority of equivalency charts, and I'd agree based upon personal experience. Ashton -- the fanatical old hag from the UK -- might be the only one who feels it's a 1 to 20 equivalency.
> 
> 3. Short-term only, because anxiety is a short term problem.:roll Long-term you simply must use SSRIs because severe sexual side effects are fantastic! Why would anyone want an orgasm? Libido is so overrated too. And doesn't matter if other drugs cause ED, since with no libido & no ability to orgasm, you have no need to get it up anyhow.


Actually 1mg of Xanax is 20mg of Valium. Looked it up, popped the pills, felt it, yep, it's about the same.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> 1. Patients differ greatly in their response to meds, severity of their condition & amounts needed greatly differ.
> 
> 2. 1 mg Xanax = 10 mg Valium: This is what you'll find in the vast majority of equivalency charts, and I'd agree based upon personal experience. Ashton -- the fanatical old hag from the UK -- might be the only one who feels it's a 1 to 20 equivalency.
> 
> 3. Short-term only, because anxiety is a short term problem.:roll Long-term you simply must use SSRIs because severe sexual side effects are fantastic! Why would anyone want an orgasm? Libido is so overrated too. And doesn't matter if other drugs cause ED, since with no libido & no ability to orgasm, you have no need to get it up anyhow.


Are you seriously 38, cause you sound like a 16 year old kid. SSRI's side effects last for as long as your taking the drug, but the actual effects that help anxiety/social anxiety never leave, I did it. It sucked having no libido, but **** me, it was worth it, instead of having to pop benzos, then taper off, then pop them again. It's a drug in all the sense of the word, SSRI's are drugs too, but at least they actually "cure" you and then you can ditch them.

Also, 1mg Xanax = 20mg Valium. Looked it up and I experienced it myself.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> *istayhome*, i agree with you totally. im glad someone out there is sensable in the world of treating mental illness. :clap.
> 
> if i need daily doses of xanax to keep myself in the right state of mind, then thats just what works for me.
> 
> ...


You know, I could replace the word Xanax in your post, with another word like, I don't know, heroin, or cocaine, and it would all be the same. You're just a drug addict, and when you're not, you're cutting yourself which is pathetic. Seek help, real help, something that you won't have to rely on for the rest of your miserable life. Take off the blindfold, your miserable life is covered by the "sweetness of Xanax", a very addictive and powerful substance, and just because you take your doses the way you are supposed to doesn't mean that everything is fine, quite the opposite. Without Xanax, you're a piece of ****.

Now, I'm gonna get to the part where I try to help a person who I don't give a **** about, I kinda don't want to because how blind you are and how you seem to think everything is ok seems pathetic to me, I'm still gonna do it.

I would tell you that SSRI's saved my life, but since you are pretty old yourself I assume you have already tried those. There are different types of SSRI's though. I was like you, taking Xanax everyday because it made me happy. I started a treatment on Zoloft during 6 months, and my life changed. **** Xanax, I feel like I'm on Xanax all the time, cause I'm happy all the time.

If you decide to keep on with your drug addiction, it's fine, it's your life. Good luck with it.

I want to add, that short-acting benzos such as Xanax, aren't meant to be prescribed in treatments for over 6 months, 12 months tops. Long-term treatments use long-acting benzos like clonazepam or diazepam.

I want to ask you a few questions too, what happens when your doc denies to up the dose? what happens when you keep taking the same dose and it no longer does the trick? what happens when your doc decided that you're done with Xanax? and please don't say "find a new doc" lol


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

I have tried two different SSRIs and a whole bunch of other medications, but out of them all, alprazolam has helped me the most.

Like blues85, I am prescribed 1.5mg of alprazolam a day. I haven't experienced any trouble with it; I use it as-needed, which ends up being most days (perhaps 26/30), and I have never experienced tolerance or dependence. I don't know if I'd characterize this as a "drug addiction", given the term's usual use; but even if it is, I'd compare it to a cripple using a crutch - a tool that helps, whatever you call it.

That said, blues85 seems to be unaware of the reality of the situation, and doesn't seem open to learning. It seems like he just wants people to validate what he has already decided to do (get more Xanax). I have only had this success with alprazolam because I understand how dangerous physical benzodiazepine dependence is. An SSRI, if it works, would almost certainly be a better choice.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

^^^ Dude, reef88 Why would you write such a hostile post? I see no difference between being on an ssri indefinitely and being on benzo indefinitely. If the shoe fits wear it. I've been on six different ssri's/snri's and they all made my condition significantly worse. I finally quit taking them and went through the most hellacious withdrawals. Worse than alcohol, worse than opiates. You said yourself in an earlier post that no one has control over their gaba receptors. So if some people need a benzo because their brain isn't producing enough gaba or their neurons aren't able to receive enough gaba then what is so terrible about taking benzodiazapines if they allow a person to live a better, more enjoyable life. Your continued insistence that everyone taking benzos is going to have to keep raising the dose with a diminished effect simply is not true. Benzos have a high therapeutic value. If someone needs to use them long term because nothing else relieves their symptoms then that is a far option than suffering with possibly life-threatening anxiety.

I have been lurking on this forum for over two years and have never seen any posts that are as damning, judgmental and quite simply harmful as your posts on this thread have been. Are you deliberately trying to get the poster you just flamed to hate him/herself and drive them to suicide? You're being totally sadistic. I'm really at a loss for words about your last post. You're obviously adamantly anti-benzodiazapine for some reason, I'm not sure why but why would you write such a cruel post to someone on a SUPPORT forum?

You are definitely not qualified to be making blanket statements about how other individuals should and shouldn't be medicated. As to answer your questions, quite frankly if there was a treatment or medication which I knew or thought would work for me and one doctor denied it then yes I would find a different doctor. Doctor's are not infallible they are not all-knowing and always perfect when it comes to treating every patient. In my experience it is hard to find a good, helpful reasonable psychiatrist who isn't prejudiced and big-headed as you are. Hell, maybe you are 76 year old psychiatrist who is unwilling to listen to what any suffering individual has to say.

Benzos do cause a physical addiction just like most drugs, that's a fact of life but if their overall effect is more good then harm I really don't see the problem. I would rather have a physical addiction than constant suicidal ideation and causing everyone around me pain. If someone had a spinal cord injury and required constant fentanyl to live, it would be ridiculous to deny them that medication because it is addictive. It would be great medicine and pharmaceuticals were so advanced that you could take one pill one time and it would cure whatever ails you, but that is not reality. So we are all trying to help ourselves with what is available to us.

I would encourage you to get off your high horse, come back down to earth and grow a little compassion. There is no one right way treat everyone who suffers from anxiety nor is there any treatment that is so terrible that it should be demonized and forbidden from all. Right now you're a turd in the punch-bowl. If all you have to say is negative and potentially harmful then don't bother posting. Your point has been made, you think benzos are potentially super harmful and should only be used extremely minimally, if at all. You think anyone taking them long term is drug addict in denial, equivalent to a street heroin junkie. I understand your point of view, now I think I'm going to go pop a couple xanies!


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Benzos are a far better solution for anxiety than alcohol. Which is how a lot of people would be self-medicating if benzos were unavailable. When it comes down to it if I am severely suffering and suicidal I'm going to do whatever I have to do to make it through the day and hope for a better tomorrow.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

"being on an ssri indefinitely" This is the whole point you dumbass, being on an SSRI only takes 6 to 12 months. 

"Your continued insistence that everyone taking benzos is going to have to keep raising the dose with a diminished effect simply is not true." Actually, this IS true, you develop tolerance, and therefore need more of the drug to feel the desired effect. The fact that it's therapeutic doesn't mean you won't want to keep raising your dose. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

"nothing else relieves their symptoms then that is a far option than suffering with possibly life-threatening anxiety." hahahaha... you seriously got me laughing there. But let me teach you something, Benzo tolerance down-regulates GABAnergic receptors, and also raises the amount of glutamate (an excitatory neurotransmitter, the most excitatory one to be exact). When you go into withdrawals from high doses (which blues85 keeps saying he wants to tell his doc to up the dose) you may suffer Excitotoxicity, which kills neurons, and is in fact life-threatening. The only way for the natural anxiety blues85 feels without Xanax can be life-threatening is if he kills himself, which would be his own fault.

"You're obviously adamantly anti-benzodiazapine" In fact, I'm not. I use benzos, I'm currently tapering off benzos and I'm at 2mg a day, I don't take Xanax, I take Clonazepam, once a day. I can't wait to get off this stuff. But the difference between me and blues85, is that he relies so much on the substance, that he is so blindfolded and knee deep into psychological addiction.

"As to answer your questions, quite frankly if there was a treatment or medication which I knew or thought would work for me and one doctor denied it then yes I would find a different doctor." This is just like a junkie trying to find a new dealer. When the old one runs out of dope, you gotta get it somewhere else don't you?


Now, I ignored the rest of your post, simply because you keep implying that I'm telling blues85 to just get off Xanax and live life normally, no, I'm saying look elsewhere, look at other options that aren't as addictive and dangerous as Xanax. The fact that SSRI's caused you to **** up doesn't mean it will happen the same to blues85, and if you had any withdrawals it's because you probably quit cold turkey, which is stupid to begin with.


"Your point has been made, you think benzos are potentially super harmful and should only be used extremely minimally, if at all. " This is not my point at all, lol. Yes, I'm being harsh, but it's because this guy is so blind he's gonna end up very bad if he keeps using Xanax the way he is. I can easily say that I know more about benzos than you do, I have a lot of experience, I've used Xanax, Clonazepam, Diazepam, Bromazepam. I've went through withdrawals you can't imagine. I know what I'm talking about. Benzos are good meds. But for blues85, they're the last resource, because he talks like a drug addict, he's addicted to Xanax, he wants to up the dose, he'll want to up the dose again, at one point, things will get out of hand.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Take all this, as a courtesy from a former heavy benzo user/abuser, and current therapeutic user.

If I wanted to cause any harm to blues85, I'd tell him to go kill himself, or up the dose until he's hooked like a crack-*****. clearly I'm doing the opposite, and I'm not sorry If I don't give a **** whether I'm being harsh or not, I'm just trying to help a random person I've never met, because that's my good deed of the day.

Check this thread, it might put some insight into you.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/quitting-benzodiazepines-178768/


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## Race Car Driver (Apr 25, 2012)

I've been there with the Xanax, and I agree, it's a great drug for anxiety. I can't speak about any adverse effects on your health, however, because I never experienced any and don't know of any (besides addiction). I'll just say this much: Xanax was probably the best drug I've been on in terms of helping with anxiety, and I've been on alot. Clonezepam, for one; Also, just about every anti-depressant out there since I was a teenager. I functioned the best I've ever functioned while taking Xanax, but I was taking more than directed, admittedly, but not because I was addicted. I would take 2 MG every night before bed, and I'd sleep better and wake up feeling much better and much less anxious in the morning and this feeling would stay with me throughout the day. When I went to see a new psychiatrist, she took me off of it and told me she would NEVER prescribe something like that to a young person because of its addictive properties, so that day, I quit it and never touched it again, and to this day, 2 years later, I've never had any urge to take it again, even though I still have some left in my bottle and could easily take some if I wanted to. Granted, I'm not the type to get addicted to things. I've smoked on and off since I was a teenager and never got addicted to that either, and, obviously, we all know cigarettes are addictive to most people, so for all I know, Xanax could be the same way. For that reason, I wouldn't really recommend it for most people, because you really don't want to end up fighting SAD (or any form of anxiety/depression for that matter) while also trying to fight an addiction. If you're going to stay on it, having been on it myself, I understand why you would want to stay on it because of its calming properties, but I will advise you to BE CAREFUL and keep a close eye on your situation for any signs of dependency/addiction and start taking measures to get off of it immediately if you find yourself in that situation.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

reef88 said:


> You know, I could replace the word Xanax in your post, with another word like, I don't know, heroin, or cocaine, and it would all be the same. You're just a drug addict, and when you're not, you're cutting yourself which is pathetic. Seek help, real help, something that you won't have to rely on for the rest of your miserable life. Take off the blindfold, your miserable life is covered by the "sweetness of Xanax", a very addictive and powerful substance, and just because you take your doses the way you are supposed to doesn't mean that everything is fine, quite the opposite. Without Xanax, you're a piece of ****.
> 
> Now, I'm gonna get to the part where I try to help a person who I don't give a **** about, I kinda don't want to because how blind you are and how you seem to think everything is ok seems pathetic to me, I'm still gonna do it.
> 
> ...


 :mum
Laugh Out Loud!! haha *reef88* you got some issues man. Now im a drug addict becuase i take a xanax everyday for my mental disorder? get a grip dude.

and im pathetic bc i used to cut myself? wow your just a cold hearted prick. would you call someone who kills themselves pathetic too? i wish i knew u so i could come to your house and **** you up.

to call someone pathetic for having depression and mental problems and problems with life thats just messed up man. you must worship the devil on your free time sit around a circle of raped women and love every second of it. you make me sick.

just because the government says xanax should only be short term use doesnt mean it cant be used for long term use. do you believe everything the government and the FDA says? if you do then your in for a rude awakening guy.

i manage my xanax doses out fine, some peole talk abou tapering off their benzos. im all set with my benzo and i dont think i need to taper off. i wake up every morning from night terrors and have extreme anxiety and not only that but have complete dullness when i look at the world especially wheni wake up. i need these benzos to feel normal, not because im a drug addict, because they help me see myself and cope with the world around me like a normal person.

if i were a drug addict i would be popping these xanax all the time trying to get high off it. which i dont. i use it when i need it, which yes it is daily.

and ive tried antidepressants they make me extremely happy for few hrs then few hrs later i want to kill myself and make up different ways to do it in my head. im much more level with benzos because they just level me out. 

and oh yah like ive said before, xanax does not cure me, it merely helps me manage my disorder. so no not everything is alright all the time for me mr *reef88. *and to say ssri's cure people is complete nonsense too. theeirs manmy stories about people killing themselves by taking ssri's, theirs just as many [problems with those antidepressants as there are benzos.

:heartMuch Love:heart

.:dont take **** from nobody:.


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## The Drummer (Jul 7, 2011)

Until psychiatry can come up with a non addictive drug that works I'm going to take benzos. If that makes me a junky then so be it. It's way better than the alternative.


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

The Drummer said:


> Until psychiatry can come up with a non addictive drug that works I'm going to take benzos. If that makes me a junky then so be it. It's way better than the alternative.


I was told I was the type of person who would have to take benzos for life.

Wrong

I tapered off the crap and I'm feeling better than ever

I'm also a drummer.

Good luck, god forbid if you couldn't get your dose for one reason or another.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> :mum
> Laugh Out Loud!! haha *reef88* you got some issues man. Now im a drug addict becuase i take a xanax everyday for my mental disorder? get a grip dude.
> 
> and im pathetic bc i used to cut myself? wow your just a cold hearted prick. would you call someone who kills themselves pathetic too? i wish i knew u so i could come to your house and **** you up.
> ...


You put a smile on my face.

"i manage my xanax doses out fine, some peole talk abou tapering off their benzos. im all set with my benzo and i dont think i need to taper off. i wake up every morning from night terrors and have extreme anxiety and not only that but have complete dullness when i look at the world especially wheni wake up. i need these benzos to feel normal, not because im a drug addict, because they help me see myself and cope with the world around me like a normal person."

You know, I quoted that part because, well, you ALWAYS have to taper off, sooner or later, or you will be taking 20mg a day one day. Because with benzos, specially Xanax, you develop tolerance very quickly, I know that, and I've read a couple times where you said you wanted to up your dose, lol don't ****ing kid yourself, you know I don't even give a **** anymore, it's your life, **** it up the way you want.

Also, for your knowledge, your extreme anxiety attacks and how you wake up at night and ****, it's probably _*interdose withdrawals*_ I put that in bold and italic so you can look it up, it happens when you take short-acting benzos, like Xanax.

"if i were a drug addict i would be popping these xanax all the time trying to get high off it. which i dont. i use it when i need it, which yes it is daily."

lol again, no dude, drug addicts, specially heroin addicts, shoot up/take their doses at certain times of the day, just so they can function like a normal human being. Wake the **** up.

"to say ssri's cure people is complete nonsense"

They cured me. 

So SSRI's don't work for you, I'm kinda glad now, since your last post has made me give less of a **** about you. Good luck with Xanax :b

Edit: Oh, and I hope your psych comes to his/her senses and denies to up your dose, let's see how you react to that. And here's a warning, don't act all grumpy if he/she says no, because then they'll see the true face of your addiction and completely cut you off.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Obviously different drugs work differently for different people. SSRI's cured reef88, they made my condition far worse. Reef88 self-admittedly used to abuse benzos he noticed constant tolerance with I reduction in effectiveness. I have never abused benzos, never had to raise my dose and they have not lost any effectiveness. Unfortunately there is no right answer for everybody, nor is there a wrong answer for everyone. Yes benzos create a physical addiction. If you take them regularly and abruptly stop you will experience painful, potentially fatal withdrawals. Being a benzo user, that is frightening and I wish I had a better option. But right now and for the best couple years this prescribed medication has been the best option for me, otherwise I wouldn't be using it. I never wanted to use benzos in the first place, I've never found them to be an enjoyable recreational drug, they are simply a necessity for me right now. 

As for my SSRI experience, SSRI's turned me into a manic-depressive monster. Unable to sleep for two-weeks straight, paranoid, delusional. Then extremely depressed, not getting out of bed for two weeks. I did in fact taper off of Effexor to a low dose then switched back to fluoxetine for a final taper. Once again I had terrible side effects from the SSRI and I was pretty much psychotic. I had to abruptly quit the lowest dose of fluoxetine to save my life. I then went through nearly a month of hellacious withdrawals. So no reef88 I'm not a "retard" who abruptly quit taking SSRI's. I took them for two years and had a terrible I experience. Just as you apparently had a terrible experience with benzos and as you said still taking clonazepam. But I do not verbally attack everyone on this forum who is taking SSRI's short or long-term. I do call swear at people and call them pathetic junkies because they are using a medication which I had a bad experience with. We all have different underlying conditions and fortunately this forum exists so that we can all compare notes and try to help ourselves and each-other. You keep saying how your rants are your way of "doing a good deed for the day." Calling someone pathetic, patronizing people and telling us how little you care about us is in no way doing a good deed. If you've had a bad experience with a medication, by all means share your experience. But do not assume that you know what is right and wrong for others. And do not assume that you know what everyone else's individual experiences have been.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

Quite right - there's no reason for insults; we're here to learn and exchange information. Keep in mind that personal attacks do not help you, do not help the person you're attacking (and certainly don't make them inclined to accept your advice), and waste time and energy.

Reef88 comes off as a bit of an a‎sshole in these later posts*, and as a daily benzo user for years I disagree with most of what he's saying, but he makes a good point - with heavy use of short-acting benzos, interdose withdrawal is a real phenomenon... and it's a bad sign. That's not necessarily what blues85 is experiencing, but it could very well be.

If he's been taking this dose, daily, throughout the day, for six months, and hasn't missed any doses, then it's quite likely he is physically dependent on alprazolam. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but Wodan help him if he misses a dose; increasing dosage also leads down a bad road. If his current dose isn't sufficient now, it wouldn't have been sufficient for these past six months he's been on it... unless it's only recently become insufficient, in which case he's developing tolerance. Then reef88's predictions are on the money, and he'll have to keep raising his dose. This is not sustainable.

*Notice that reef88's original post in this thread was polite and informative. Blues85's response wasn't objectionable, either. It was only in response to _that_ post that reef88 began throwing accusations of junkie-hood around. It's a little offensive, and as I said I disagree with a good amount of the stuff he says, but I understand his frustration - the OP does not seem interested in learning about the dangers inherent in drug he's using, or in possible alternatives. A longer-acting benzo, for one, would be a much better choice if he needs to take alprazolam multiple times a day. Reef88 originally suggested this, too.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

"A longer-acting benzo, for one, would be a much better choice if he needs to take alprazolam multiple times a day. Reef88 originally suggested this, too." Thanks for repeating this great idea. Long-acting benzos such as Clonazepam (it's the current one I'm using) only need one, two at the most doses per day, you can go a day without taking it and you won't get withdrawals. It's _long-acting_. Xanax is nothing but a quick fix for a school presentation or in a more serious situation, a panic attack.

Now, to istayhome.

you said this: "I have never abused benzos, never had to raise my dose and they have not lost any effectiveness."

I find it hard to believe that taking doses of benzos for long periods of times without raising the dose is possible, they create tolerance, it's a fact, tolerance leads to loss of effectiveness and therefore upping the dose. I'm not making this up for god's sake lol.

Now you should have tried Sertraline, that's a proven one to be succeeded in many cases of social anxiety.

Once again, I'll say that I have nothing against benzos, what I'm against is a person who is living in wonderland thinking "hey, Xanax is for me, I'll take it all the time, it doesn't matter if I get hooked (which I'm totally denying that I am), because it helps me, it doesn't matter if other people have told me that there are other meds that can help me, I like this one and I'm not willing to try another medication that might be less dangerous, and possible be more helpful than the one I'm taking, because even though I know that Xanax is short-acting and I have to take it several times a day, I don't seem to give a rats *** about that"

I am sorry that other people had to read my harsh posts, but I'm not sorry blues85 had to read them. I offered help very politely at first, but since I seem to be dealing with a drug-addict in denial, I have to take another route, which probably won't work, but I won't be the one suffering the consequences.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

reef88 said:


> "being on an ssri indefinitely" This is the whole point you dumbass, being on an SSRI only takes 6 to 12 months.


I was surprised to read this; I thought SSRIs were basically life-long medications. After some research, it does appear that this is the more usual pattern of use. Thanks for the knowledge!

However, while doing said research, I also learned that they're _not necessarily_ unnecessary after a year - it depends on the patient, and some are indeed on them for life. Here is a good brief summary.



> _"Your continued insistence that everyone taking benzos is going to have to keep raising the dose with a diminished effect simply is not true." Actually, this IS true, you develop tolerance, and therefore need more of the drug to feel the desired effect. The fact that it's therapeutic doesn't mean you won't want to keep raising your dose. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about._


Actually, depending on the benzo and how it's being used, benzodiazepine dosage _can_ be kept at a fixed level. (See below in regards to the study on alprazolam.) With a short-acting benzo like alprazolam, for example, your doses can be spaced far enough part that no tolerance will be developed.

A good practice with any physically addictive drug is to keep your doses far enough apart that your brain has a chance to return to baseline in between. How do you know how far this is? A rule of thumb* to make sure you've got the timing right is to check out how long it takes before major withdrawals would be felt. For example, the first signs of alprazolam withdrawal can begin as soon as six hours after the last dose, and the withdrawal peaks at 24 hours. Six hours between doses is probably not enough, since that's just the first signs and symptoms, but 24 hours definitely qualifies; a user taking alprazolam about once every 24 hours will not develop physical dependence.*



> _and is in fact life-threatening. The only way for the natural anxiety blues85 feels without Xanax can be life-threatening is if he kills himself, which would be his own fault._


Death from suicide is a concern no matter how you decide to assign blame, I think. But that's beside the point: it is true that benzodiazepine withdrawal can be life-threatening, and even if it's not, *some unlucky people experience benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms for years*. Those are both extreme cases, but even "mild" benzo withdrawal is hellish. Blues85 doesn't seem to be aware of the danger, but at this point the ball is in his court. We've done all we can.



> _"As to answer your questions, quite frankly if there was a treatment or medication which I knew or thought would work for me and one doctor denied it then yes I would find a different doctor." This is just like a junkie trying to find a new dealer. When the old one runs out of dope, you gotta get it somewhere else don't you?_


C'mon, man - you've made so many excellent points that you must know this is a pretty silly analogy! "Oh, you went to a different store because your usual one stopped carrying that soda you like? That's just like a junkie finding a new dealer!"



> _Now, I ignored the rest of your post, simply because you keep implying that I'm telling blues85 to just get off Xanax and live life normally, no, I'm saying look elsewhere, look at other options that aren't as addictive and dangerous as Xanax. The fact that SSRI's caused you to **** up doesn't mean it will happen the same to blues85 [...] Yes, I'm being harsh, but it's because this guy is so blind he's gonna end up very bad if he keeps using Xanax the way he is. [...] I've went through withdrawals you can't imagine. I know what I'm talking about. Benzos are good meds. But for blues85, they[ *might be*] the last resource, because he's [*quite probably*] addicted to Xanax, he wants to up the dose, he'll want to up the dose again, at one point, things [*could easily*] get out of hand._


I made a few modifications here, in the square brackets, because I don't think we can say with certainty that blues85 is addicted to alprazolam and will end badly...

...but I wouldn't be surprised if that is indeed the truth. As I mentioned before, I've been on the same dose of alprazolam for years and I only ever needed to up my dosage at the *very beginning*, to find a dose that worked. In a study I read (I can dig it up if need be) it has been found that the vast majority of successful long-term alprazolam users follow this pattern: dosage adjusted in the beginning, then fixed. (I also read, on Wikipedia, that 4mg a day or more is where the really big dependence problems start, but that's by no means the lower limit.) So this desire to increase dosage, at this point in time (that is, after using the medication for a while), seems to me like a warning sign.

*_For anyone thinking of using this information: this is educated conjecture; it has not been studied or published in the literature, as far as I know_. Take this as a direction to do further research in, _not_ as an assertion of fact. I base this rule of thumb on my own experience and (psycho)pharmacological reasoning. My reasoning is sound, I believe; my knowledge of neurology is quite pathetic compared to my experience in chemistry (one's a hobby, one's a passion), but I do a fair amount of reading on it all the same - but that doesn't mean I am qualified to dispense advice.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I've been on Sertraline (Zoloft) and had the same problems. The only SSRI/SNRI I have not been on is Cymbalta, which I have no desire to try due to my bad experiences with every single other antidepressant of that class. I too am surprised that valium and xanax haven't caused any of those horrible problems of which you speak for me, but they haven't. I've tried clonazepam in the past for a month or two but it was totally useless for me. Like I said, everyone has different brain chemistry and will have different experiences with the same medication.

Amphetamines definitely have a huge tolerance problem, yet for many people suffering from ADHD they are beneficial for years without raising the dose. There is a difference between drug abuse and the therapeutic use of drugs. Using opiates will build a tolerance but again many people find them effective long-term without having to raise the dose. Of course there are drug abusers who chase a high and have to keep taking more and more. 

Alprazolam is not like LSD or shrooms, where it is impossible to get an effect after using it a couple days in row.

It seems to me that blue85 just recently started taking xanax, is amazed with how helpful it is and is in a kind of short-lived honey-moon phase. It's a dangerous place to be if you keep trying to feel that short-lived effect and raising your dose. But from my experience and from the experiences of others I know the same dose of benzodiazapines can be effective long-term when used responsibly. I have known plenty of benzo addicts who got started because they were prescribed xanax by a doctor without proper instruction about it's responsible use. They mix it with alcohol, have fun, blackout, wake up more anxious, raise the dose and on and on. 

A lot of people have problems with benzos but for many people they can be life savers. SSRI's help a lot a lot of people but they can cause other people to commit suicide. You're a former abuser and your experience is valuable but realize that not everyone who starts using benzos will end up abusing them because not everyone has the same brain chemistry, personality and predispositions as you do.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

"Actually, depending on the benzo and how it's being used, benzodiazepine dosage can be kept at a fixed level. (See below in regards to the study on alprazolam.) With a short-acting benzo like alprazolam, for example, your doses can be spaced far enough part that no tolerance will be developed."

This is true, however, this is not the case of blues85, who takes Xanax four (4) times a day.

"C'mon, man - you've made so many excellent points that you must know this is a pretty silly analogy! "Oh, you went to a different store because your usual one stopped carrying that soda you like? That's just like a junkie finding a new dealer!"

Ok, I'll give you the reason on this one lol. But what I meant to say is that if somebody, say blues85, is so dependent on this drug that he is willing to go against his psychiatrist's advice and seek another doctor who is just willing to give out prescriptions as easily, he definitely has a problem.

"It seems to me that blue85 just recently started taking xanax, is amazed with how helpful it is and is in a kind of short-lived honey-moon phase."

This is kind of the problem, hell I thought he was experienced with this stuff. He is just not willing to try other benzos, Clonazepam, Diazepam, both long-lasting, long half-lives, both treat anxiety, both better than taking several doses of Xanax per day.* This is what I've been trying to get to all this time, there are other options, Clonazepam can be taken daily for long periods of time without having to up the dose, same with Diazepam (even though I have little knowledge about that one) * *. Xanax, 4 times a day, long term, is no good, period.*

" You're a former abuser and your experience is valuable but realize that not everyone who starts using benzos will end up abusing them because not everyone has the same brain chemistry, personality and predispositions as you do."

About this, I want to add that *I didn't end up abusing benzos*, I began using benzos to sleep for whenever I came home after a night of cocaine to help me sleep, worked wonderful, then I realized they were anxiolytics (this whole time, it was only Xanax, there other benzos were unknown to me) and started doing Xanax several times a day (2,3,4...) for anxiety purposes, no abusing. Then I began to abuse Xanax, as in blacking out and stuff. Then I started it to battle social anxiety, again several times a day, then I realized that every now and then I had to up my dose, and that I had become a drug addict, in the whole sense of the word, just like cocaine, or heroin. I was physically dependent on Xanax. So I tapered myself off *(All of this was self-medication)*. Then I met Clonazepam and discovered that it was better, for me at least, and I would dare to say that for most people, because taking Xanax several times a day, only leads to addiction, withdrawals, depression, and more addiction. Anyone, who uses Xanax like this, is a person who is dependent on a chemical, desperately, because of it's short-lasting effects. There are tons of options other than this, and that is what blues85 should be doing right now, checking other stuff, see if it works.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm glad that this thread has turned into a much more civil discourse. Blue85 mentioned in his original post that he'd tried clonazepam but wasn't happy with the results. I had the same experience on clonazepam. It wasn't effective in treating the anxiety I experienced and just caused me to experience drunken-like symptoms and blackouts. That was at a relatively low dose.

Blue85 also brought up a relevant point that affects a lot of us a believe. That is that many psychiatrists seem to set arbritary limits on what/how much they will prescribe. Of course doctors should watch out for addicts exhibiting drug-seeking behavior. But many doctors treat psychiatric patients like infants and act like the lords of medication. This causes problems for all of us causing us anxiety, fear and a lot of suffering having to do with being underprescribed medication or being refused treatment options which could really help us. As I mentioned in an earlier post most psychiatrists need a hell of a lot more compassion and open-mindedness and flexibility when it comes to treating patients. Recently I saw a p-doc for treatment resistant depression. After telling him about all the SSRI's I have been on and my bad experience with all of them he went on to tell me that the only treatment he could offer was prozac, A medication which I had already spent some time on and had caused terrible side effects for me. I explained this to him but he spent 90 minutes telling me what a miracle cure it would be for me. Basically a $250 scam. I went to see him in a suicidal state, he offered me nothing then immediately fired me as a patient because I refused his treatment (a treatment I had already tried that did not work for me). 

No one, especially SA patients should have to be afraid of their doctors not providing the treatment they need. There seem to be more sucky p-docs out there than reasonable ones and this is unfortunate. Mental illness is hard enough and treatment often seems to make things worse.


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## Race Car Driver (Apr 25, 2012)

I'll be honest here, between all the long posts and everyone arguing back and forth, and, in some places, getting insulting, I've just skimmed through alot of this, but ultimately, I feel that the bottom line is this, as I said before: Medications/treatments work differently on different people. End of story. What "cures" your SA might do nothing for me or even make mine worse and vice versa. If everyone were exactly the same as far as this, there would be only one antidepressant for SA on the market, and that would be that.

I can't sit here and tell someone that they will absolutely 100% get addicted to Xanax, when I know myself that's not the case every time. Like I said before, I was taking 2 MG a day for 6 months to a year, and when my new doctor told me to quit, I walked away from it with ZERO withdraw symptoms, and that was over 2 years ago and I haven't touched it since, and I didn't do any "easing off" of it. I simply took it one day as usual, then the next day the doctor told me not to take it, and I never took it again. Simple as that. Now I very well may be the exception to the rule, and I DO NOT recommend Xanax for anyone who can get by at all without it, and to those who must take it, I caution to be very careful with it and respect it, but I don't think it's appropriate to insult someone just because they take it. As long as you know the risks involved and are responsible with it, so be it.


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## UgShy (Mar 6, 2012)

Tyler Bro said:


> So does Xanax help you, lets say from a scale on 1-10?


I'm wondering this too


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

reef88 said:


> You put a smile on my face.
> 
> "i manage my xanax doses out fine, some peole talk abou tapering off their benzos. im all set with my benzo and i dont think i need to taper off. i wake up every morning from night terrors and have extreme anxiety and not only that but have complete dullness when i look at the world especially wheni wake up. i need these benzos to feel normal, not because im a drug addict, because they help me see myself and cope with the world around me like a normal person."
> 
> ...


:clap
I wouldn't want to go above 2mg a day, its a fact that 4mg xanax daily is completely healthy for humans if spaced out correctly. 
l
lol, :idea withdrawals? :no you have no idea what your talking about. your close minded. i got treatment before i was on any med, the problems i deal with are not related to my xanax use at all lol. the xanax helps mr. you have no sense of validity in what your saying, tolerance builds up but if it is managed out it has caused me no problems. whatever works for whoever is great. ive tried several drugs from psychiatrist and found xanax works best for my days.

by the away i have never gone threw withdrawals from alprazolam what so ever. I'm guessing this is because i dont abuse the drug and take as needed daily for bipolar assoicated with panic attacks and sleep problems.

accusing me of being a drug addict because i take a controlled substance that can be addictive prescribed by a doctor for actual mental disorders is complete ignorance.

im glad your antidepressants are working. thats not to say the number of problems with those drugs. just because it soundsl like youve had problems with benzodiazepines doesnt mean other people take them and it is it what works when used properly.


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

Race Car Driver said:


> I'll be honest here, between all the long posts and everyone arguing back and forth, and, in some places, getting insulting, I've just skimmed through alot of this, but ultimately, I feel that the bottom line is this, as I said before: Medications/treatments work differently on different people. End of story. What "cures" your SA might do nothing for me or even make mine worse and vice versa. If everyone were exactly the same as far as this, there would be only one antidepressant for SA on the market, and that would be that.
> 
> I can't sit here and tell someone that they will absolutely 100% get addicted to Xanax, when I know myself that's not the case every time. Like I said before, I was taking 2 MG a day for 6 months to a year, and when my new doctor told me to quit, I walked away from it with ZERO withdraw symptoms, and that was over 2 years ago and I haven't touched it since, and I didn't do any "easing off" of it. I simply took it one day as usual, then the next day the doctor told me not to take it, and I never took it again. Simple as that. Now I very well may be the exception to the rule, and I DO NOT recommend Xanax for anyone who can get by at all without it, and to those who must take it, I caution to be very careful with it and respect it, but I don't think it's appropriate to insult someone just because they take it. As long as you know the risks involved and are responsible with it, so be it.


That's some bad advice to just quit cold turkey, you could have had a seizure.

I find it hard to believe a doctor would have given you such bad advice unless he or she was inept.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> :clap
> I wouldn't want to go above 2mg a day, its a fact that 4mg xanax daily is completely healthy for humans if spaced out correctly.
> l
> lol, :idea withdrawals? :no you have no idea what your talking about. your close minded. i got treatment before i was on any med, the problems i deal with are not related to my xanax use at all lol. the xanax helps mr. you have no sense of validity in what your saying, tolerance builds up but if it is managed out it has caused me no problems. whatever works for whoever is great. ive tried several drugs from psychiatrist and found xanax works best for my days.
> ...


Oh I have no idea what I'm talking about then? lol:doh I guess all the experience I have with benzos counts for nothing, and by the way, I only abused them for less than 2 weeks, 2 black outs were sufficient enough in letting me know that this drug is not meant to be abused.

I have a question, how long have you been taking Xanax on a regular basis?

*Withdrawals have nothing to do with abusing the drug, just using it can cause withdrawals, do you just not get it? I'm done trying to explain that you don't need to abuse this stuff for things to go wrong.*

"accusing me of being a drug addict because i take a controlled substance that can be addictive prescribed by a doctor for actual mental disorders is complete ignorance."

I may have been wrong in accusing you of being something that I have no real proof of, but you do sound like one. Taking controlled substances, from doctors or not, and developing tolerance (tolerance equals physical dependence) means that you are "addicted", this is not the "addicted" that people use for heroin junkies and stuff, but the word addicted applies to your current situation. So you sir, are the only one being ignorant, because you can't see the truth that's right in front of your face.

Re-read your own sentence, and try to see the stupidity of it, you are addicted to it unless you can stop taking it and you don't feel any withdrawals. So, me telling you that you are addicted to Xanax, no matter if your doctor prescribed it for your mental illness, is not ignorance, it's truth because I know that you can't stop taking Xanax, cause if you do, you'll go deep into withdrawals.

But go on, keep on taking it, I know you will.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

reef88 said:


> "Actually, depending on the benzo and how it's being used, benzodiazepine dosage can be kept at a fixed level. (See below in regards to the study on alprazolam.) With a short-acting benzo like alprazolam, for example, your doses can be spaced far enough part that no tolerance will be developed."
> 
> This is true, however, this is not the case of blues85, who takes Xanax four (4) times a day.


That's also true. I've been trying to point out to him that this is where the trouble comes from (and why it would be better to use a long-acting benzo), but I may not have been clear enough.



reef88 said:


> Ok, I'll give you the reason on this one lol. But what I meant to say is that if somebody, say blues85, is so dependent on this drug that he is willing to go against his psychiatrist's advice and seek another doctor who is just willing to give out prescriptions as easily, he definitely has a problem.


There's definitely some truth to that; that's a bit like "doctor shopping", and one could ask why you are going to a psychiatrist if you don't take his/her advice - just for the pills, then?

Doctors are often surprisingly ignorant regarding pharmacology, though. (I had one psychiatrist tell me, for instance, that d-amp has _more_ peripheral stimulation and side effects than l-amp; another said that drinking grapefruit juice before taking alprazolam would _reduce_ the effectiveness. In this latter case, the charitable interpretation is that he meant it would result in a PPC that was too high and thus less effective than the "perfect" dose, but from the context I think he was saying that it would result in a lower PPC.) Perhaps worse than simple ignorance, though, are doctors unwilling to prescribe because they fear that either a.) the patient is a drug seeker, or b.) they'll get in trouble if they prescribe too many controlled substances.

In the case of a.), I say to the doctor: **** you. I cannot imagine how anyone can think "this person continuing to suffer is a better outcome than giving a drug seeker what s/he wants." Seriously, the worst-case scenario there is... a drug seeker takes some drugs. The worse-case scenario if a doctor fails to prescribe what a patient legitimately needs, however, could be death. This is a result of our culture, though - one that views drug abuse as a moral thing, a _crime_. That's why I sympathize with the doctors who worry about b.), because even if they want to help, they could get their license revoked or land in prison due to the lunatic drug laws extant in most of the world.

So it's sometimes understandable to switch doctors if they don't give you want you feel you need. I'm not saying that's the case here, though. Alprazolam _3-4x a day_ should be a last resort, and any competent psychiatrist would be worried, I think.



reef88 said:


> This is kind of the problem, hell I thought he was experienced with this stuff. He is just not willing to try other benzos, Clonazepam, Diazepam, both long-lasting, long half-lives, both treat anxiety, both better than taking several doses of Xanax per day.* This is what I've been trying to get to all this time, there are other options, Clonazepam can be taken daily for long periods of time without having to up the dose, same with Diazepam (even though I have little knowledge about that one).*


*THIS.* I'm going to respond to blues85 in a separate post just so he sees this. Long-acting benzodiazepines like diazepam are better for long-term use in most cases, and definitely in the case of multiple-times-daily alprazolam use. No interdose withdrawal, for example, and with diazepam's half-life it's much more forgiving if you miss a dose for whatever reason. It's easier to taper off of, too.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

istayhome said:


> Blue85 mentioned in his original post that he'd tried clonazepam but wasn't happy with the results. I had the same experience on clonazepam. It wasn't effective in treating the anxiety I experienced and just caused me to experience drunken-like symptoms and blackouts. That was at a relatively low dose.


Clonazepam was the first benzodiazepine I was prescribed, as well. Oddly enough, it didn't do _anything_ to me. As I mentioned above, (organic/medicinal/bio-)chemistry is my thing, not pharmacology; but as far as I know, clonazepam and alprazolam are metabolized by mostly the same enzymes, and of course they act upon the same receptors in the brain (though I believe that the strength with which they act upon each subtype of GABA receptor varies to some extent).

So if one works, the other should; or at least, if you feel effects from one, you should feel some similar effects from the other. It takes a somewhat high dose of alprazolam to be effective at all for me - 1mg minimum/threshold effects, 2mg more usually - but with clonazepam, I _never_ felt _anything_. I don't just mean anxiety relief - I mean *anything*, including sedation, dizziness, disinhibition, etc. Even when I took, without tolerance, 8mg in a single dose, I didn't feel anything, and the observers on hand did not observe me to be impaired. I had to wonder if I got a bad batch. This occurred with two different refills, but they were from the same pharmacy, and within the same two months.

Interestingly, when I was on this forum in the past, I encountered an individual who had the same occurrence... except for him/her, alprazolam was the ineffective one and clonazepam worked beautifully.



istayhome said:


> That is that many psychiatrists seem to set arbritary limits on what/how much they will prescribe. Of course doctors should watch out for addicts exhibiting drug-seeking behavior. But many doctors treat psychiatric patients like infants and act like the lords of medication. This causes problems for all of us causing us anxiety, fear and a lot of suffering having to do with being underprescribed medication or being refused treatment options which could really help us. As I mentioned in an earlier post most psychiatrists need a hell of a lot more compassion and open-mindedness and flexibility when it comes to treating patients.
> [...]
> No one, especially SA patients should have to be afraid of their doctors not providing the treatment they need. Mental illness is hard enough and treatment often seems to make things worse.


Hear, hear. This is all very true, and it's a very unfortunate situation. The U.S. - and the world in general, with a few sane exceptions like Portugal and Uruguay - is extremely irrational... one might even say _insane_... with respect to the problem of drug abuse. Your experience would sound very familiar to anyone with chronic pain; it can be an absolute nightmare to get _any_ controlled substance.

And why is this? _Because a drug abuser might get a chance to abuse some drugs._ I have always maintained that almost any drug should be available to almost anyone, since a.) the individual knows what they need better than any outside observer ever could*, and b.) even if said individual is making a horrible mistake, it is their own mistake to make. But even if we don't accept this argument - and it's not likely to be accepted in the U.S. any time soon - the difficulty in acquiring controlled substances is _still_ senseless. As I say above, imagine what would happen if a doctor prescribes benzodiazepines, opioids, amphetamine, etc. to a drug abuser.

Yes, that's right, the most horrible thing imaginable: _they take the drugs_. Usually, this only harms them (if that; many drug abusers are self-medicating). I believe the statistics would bear out the claim that most drug seekers are seeking the drug for themselves, not to sell, but let us address the other worry: suppose the drug abuser in the above scenario is seeking to sell the drug. Worst case scenario here? _A different person takes the drug._

Any way you slice it, *possibly withholding help from someone who needs it* is a worse outcome than *possibly prescribing a medication to someone who will abuse it*.

I could rant on and on about this, but I'll stop here. It's a subject close to my heart, since I had such trouble finding a psychiatrist who would prescribe me a benzodiazepine. I wasn't even looking for them, just _relief_, but so many doctors told me SSRIs or buspirone were the only options available that I was absolutely stunned when my current doctor suggested something else, and it _actually worked._ (Well, the second one did.) My life could have been changed _years_ earlier! Now my panic attacks and anxiety are under control, but since opioids will never be prescribed for psychiatric issues, anhedonia and amotivatio and depression are my constant companions - even though the cure is known and readily available.

*"Why do we need doctors then," you ask? Well, my statement wasn't entirely correct - the individual might not know a relevant fact that would mean the drug they want _isn't_ best for them. However, if appraised of all relevant facts, the patient should then be the one to make the decision as to whether or not a drug is helpful for them. This is, in fact, the system currently in place: a doctor tells you about and prescribes a drug, you experience the side effects and the relief, you decide whether or not the tradeoff is worth it. The only difference is that patients are not allowed to make the initial choice to try a drug. Imagine if anything else worked like this - like if, for instance, you were only allowed to try out cars that the dealership recommended, and couldn't suggest a model yourself.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

blues85 said:


> I wouldn't want to go above 2mg a day, its a fact that 4mg xanax daily is completely healthy for humans if spaced out correctly.


The problem is that if you never give your brain time to return to baseline before taking another dose of alprazolam, it will become dependent on its expected doses of alprazolam. Then, when you miss a dose or try to stop taking alprazolam, you suffer withdrawal - and it is extremely unpleasant, and can even be fatal.

It would be very ignorant to call you a drug addict because you use a psychiatric drug, but I think what reef88 is trying to tell you is that _anyone who uses alprazolam multiple times daily will develop tolerance and dependence_. Even if you use it medicinally, as your psychiatrist prescribed it, and never abuse it, you *will* develop tolerance and dependence, and thus suffer from withdrawal if you ever try to stop.

You're right that alprazolam won't cause you to become dependent, or develop tolerance, *if* your doses are spaced out enough; but if you're using it multiple times every day, they're not spaced out enough. Once a day is the highest frequency of use with which I would be certain of safety; twice a day might be okay, but I'm really not sure. Three times a day or more and you will almost certainly become dependent.

Of course, as I say above, it's better to be dependent than to suffer; dependence isn't a problem as long as you have a supply of the drug. If alprazolam is what works for you, I'd be the last person to tell you you should stop. But since alprazolam is so short-acting, it has very harsh withdrawal, and you can become so dependent that you need to dose every six hours to avoid withdrawal symptoms. That means you'll be waking up in the middle of the night in a panic to take your pills - every night.

That's why I recommend *asking your psych if you could try a longer-acting benzodiazepine.* They will work _exactly_ like alprazolam, so you don't need to worry about their effectiveness, and they're easier to get off, and you won't wake up needing a dose. Better yet, if you have to take alprazolam multiple times a day, then that means your anxiety is either constant or cropping up multiple times a day... exactly what long-acting benzodiazepines are for. I would suggest diazepam, since clonazepam didn't work for you, and Valium is about the best benzo in any case.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

The reason a lot of psychiatrists don't like to prescribe benzos to a new patient is because all doctors know that benzos are like any illicit drug, they take care of the problem for a while, but they do nothing that contributes to taking care of the actual issue, or curing the disease. This is why they tend to prescribe SSRI's, which can be used for both depression, and a few for social anxiety. Zoloft is an SSRI that worked for me, and to think that before I took this medication I was thinking *"damn this Xanax stuff is good, I'll just take it for the rest of my life, I'll reach 6mg a day, taper off, and begin all over again, repeating this cycle for the rest of my life"* much like blues85 is thinking right now, I'm not saying he said he's gonna take it for the rest of his life, but he seems to be in the same mindset that I was in once, and he has no idea what's really going on.

Even going on a longer-lasting benzodiazepine, which I highly recommend for the moment being, it's not a cure to his problem. If he was a 50-60 year old man, I would definitely understand his choice of taking them for the rest of his life, but I highly doubt this is the situation. Blues85 needs to seek other meds, consider therapy, try a different change in life-style, take *everything* into consideration, instead of blocking everyone's advice and sticking to _"Xanax is for me"_. Keep on taking Xanax bro, but while you do, walk around and do some research, talk to your psychiatrist, seek other options, options that aren't gonna solve your problem for only 4 hours, or 8 hours, but for years to come, and hopefully forever.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

reef88 said:


> Actually 1mg of Xanax is 20mg of Valium. Looked it up, popped the pills, felt it, yep, it's about the same.


So my 10mg/day Xanax script equals 200 mg of Valium? Nope, I don't believe it's equal to 20 Valium tablets.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

reef88 said:


> The reason a lot of psychiatrists don't like to prescribe benzos to a new patient is because all doctors know that *benzos *are like any illicit drug, they take care of the problem for a while, but they *do nothing that contributes to taking care of the actual issue, or curing the disease.* *This is why they tend to prescribe SSRI's,* which can be used for both depression, and a few for social anxiety.


SSRIs don't cure anything, so it's ridiculous to bash benzos for failing to do the same thing SSRIs fail to do.

With rare exception, drugs don't normally cure disease. They simply reduce or mask the symptoms. Antibiotics would be one of the few exceptions that actually cures something, in that case bacterial infections.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hulgil said:


> You're right that alprazolam won't cause you to become dependent, or develop tolerance, *if* your doses are spaced out enough; but if you're using it multiple times every day, they're not spaced out enough. Once a day is the highest frequency of use with which I would be certain of safety; twice a day might be okay, but I'm really not sure.


Actually this is wrong. Xanax's half-life is 6-12 hours, by the time you in the 12-24 hour period, your body hasn't metabolized the whole drug. If you take 2mg of Xanax at 12am, by the time it's 12pm, you have metabolized half the drug, meaning you still got 1mg in your body, by the time you get to 12am of the next day, you have 0.5mg. You need to need to look into half-life deeper, and try to understand it better.

The only way to take Xanax and not develop tolerance is to space it out at least 2 days, some people say the safe way is 3-4, but 3-4 is the amount of times blues85 takes it in a single day (24 hours).. lol good luck at not developing tolerance.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> SSRIs don't cure anything, so it's ridiculous to bash benzos for failing to do the same thing SSRIs fail to do.
> 
> With rare exception, drugs don't normally cure disease. They simply reduce or mask the symptoms. Antibiotics would be one of the few exceptions that actually cures something, in that case bacterial infections.


SSRI's do in fact cure people, I am one of the few. They may not cure most, but a few is better than nothing, which is all benzo can accomplish, they cure nothing.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I would say neither actually "cures" anything. Depending on how effective they are for the individual either could be a good tool for helping someone overcome their SA. Since SSRI's didn't help me, it was benzos that reduced my anxiety enough to start socializing again, seeing a therapist, working and doing other things to help me overcome my anxiety. 

The idea with either drug is the same; you start taking it, your thoughts and feelings that caused your SA are relieved, you change your behavior accordingly, then you slowly taper off the drug while maintaining your current positive behavior and you are able to maintain your new lifestyle once you quit. The drug is a tool to help you change your thoughts, feelings and behavior.

I would say xanax cures an acute panic attack. It doesn't make it so you never have a panic attack again but it can stop one that is about to start. A sleeping pill cures a night of insomnia but it doesn't make it so you never have trouble sleeping again. Both medications can be useful and have their place. SSRI's help some people to overcome their mental disorders, benzos help some people to overcome their mental disorders. They are both tools that are available to help us. Neither will do anything unless we put a concerted effort into utilizing them correctly.

Just because you have everything you need to build a house in one place, a house won't just appear after any amount of time. Someone has to put it all together and actually build the house. Just because you take a drug for SA it won't make the SA go away, you have to actually use the drug to your greatest benefit. For some people SA never goes away even with every drug and treatment available and used in the most effective way possible. Some people can just take an SSRI for six months and it helps them for the rest of their life. I wish the latter was true for me. even antibiotics don't cure bacterial infections. They help our immune system to cure the infection. The body is much more complex than anyone even knows.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

istayhome said:


> I would say neither actually "cures" anything. Depending on how effective they are for the individual either could be a good tool for helping someone overcome their SA. Since SSRI's didn't help me, it was benzos that reduced my anxiety enough to start socializing again, seeing a therapist, working and doing other things to help me overcome my anxiety.
> 
> The idea with either drug is the same; you start taking it, your thoughts and feelings that caused your SA are relieved, you change your behavior accordingly, then you slowly taper off the drug while maintaining your current positive behavior and you are able to maintain your new lifestyle once you quit. The drug is a tool to help you change your thoughts, feelings and behavior.
> 
> ...


My primary observation is that benzos solve the problem for hours, SSRI's can solve them for years, maybe a life time. So if a doctor wants to put me on an SSRI, I would definitely give that a shot instead of knowing that if I take benzos I'll be doing no progress but delaying anxiety.

What do you prefer, to solve the problem or to delay it? If you have tried every single SSRI in medical history and none of them worked for you, then guess what? there are other types of meds, not just SSRI's and benzos. Not to mention therapy and anything unrelated to medications.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

reef88 said:


> Actually this is wrong. Xanax's half-life is 6-12 hours, by the time you in the 12-24 hour period, your body hasn't metabolized the whole drug. If you take 2mg of Xanax at 12am, by the time it's 12pm, you have metabolized half the drug, meaning you still got 1mg in your body, by the time you get to 12am of the next day, you have 0.5mg.


That's true, but you have to look at what's actually causing the tolerance; half-life tells you the plasma concentration, not necessarily activity. Benzodiazepine tolerance and withdrawal results from its effect on GABA receptors, and the subsequent attempt at compensation by upregulation of glutamate receptors. I don't think alprazolam has significant CNS activity after about six hours. I may be wrong, of course - but as I mention above, I've not developed a tolerance with doses spaced 12-48 (average and mode, 24 hours) apart. I have tested regularly for withdrawal.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hulgil said:


> That's true, but you have to look at what's actually causing the tolerance; half-life tells you the plasma concentration, not necessarily activity. Benzodiazepine tolerance and withdrawal results from its effect on GABA receptors, and the subsequent attempt at compensation by upregulation of glutamate receptors. I don't think alprazolam has significant CNS activity after about six hours. I may be wrong, of course - but as I mention above, I've not developed a tolerance with doses spaced 12-48 (average and mode, 24 hours) apart. I have tested regularly for withdrawal.


Oh well I guess we're all different then. I know quite a few people who do Xanax only at night for sleeping and they have had to up the dosage.

By the way, tolerance isn't only the up-regulation of glutamate, it also down-regulates GABA receptors. Both combined result in over-excitability of the CNS. This is why quitting cold turkey from heavy benzo use can be fatal.

I also heard from another forums that tolerance isn't just about a drug's half-life, but the constant impact of such drug on the CNS and the CNS responds with tolerance.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*get real dude..*



reef88 said:


> You put a smile on my face.
> 
> "i manage my xanax doses out fine, some peole talk abou tapering off their benzos. im all set with my benzo and i dont think i need to taper off. i wake up every morning from night terrors and have extreme anxiety and not only that but have complete dullness when i look at the world especially wheni wake up. i need these benzos to feel normal, not because im a drug addict, because they help me see myself and cope with the world around me like a normal person."
> 
> ...


HAA! this kid dont give up. man your really against xanax.

for your knowledge, i dont get withdrawals from xanax. i was waking up at night having ****ed up nightmares before i was ever on xanax. same with panic attacks and my bipolar.

what is up with you. its not my problem you dont believe that i have symptoms buddy. ive been threw way too much to listen to your ****ing bs.

i can call u a drug addict with your ****ing ssri's ***** *****. get a clue dude, you take medication for your symptoms, i take medication for my symptoms, just because my medication is different from yours doesnt mean im a drug addict bud.

wake up. im still on .5mg 3x day. no issues no problems here it works great for me and continues to do so. benzos are what work for my issues and thats just the way it is. theres different medications for everyone. you take your antidepressants thats great man they can be just as bad as xanax though. you ever heard about the little girl who was put on prozac and killer herself the next day. happens all the time man. so to say xanax or benzos are worse thats just ridiculous.

i got a little mad last time.:boogie. :sus. haha. whatever. thats funny. maybe i should have just popped a xanax and i woulda relaxed and said something in a nicer way. but i guess theirs not really a nice way to say **** you. haha you cant call me pathetic for cutting myself or doing anything man, who are you to judge anybody. i got problems you got problems some people are different. im ok with it. im on a better path now and xanax has helped me reach that path.:clap

.:get real:.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*it cool*



Hulgil said:


> Reef88 comes off as a bit of an a‎sshole in these later posts*, and as a daily benzo user for years I disagree with most of what he's saying, but he makes a good point - with heavy use of short-acting benzos, interdose withdrawal is a real phenomenon... and it's a bad sign. That's not necessarily what blues85 is experiencing, but it could very well be.
> 
> If he's been taking this dose, daily, throughout the day, for six months, and hasn't missed any doses, then it's quite likely he is physically dependent on alprazolam. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but Wodan help him if he misses a dose; increasing dosage also leads down a bad road. If his current dose isn't sufficient now, it wouldn't have been sufficient for these past six months he's been on it... unless it's only recently become insufficient, in which case he's developing tolerance. Then reef88's predictions are on the money, and he'll have to keep raising his dose. This is not sustainable.


OK... well it could be what im experiencing but its actually not their guy. like ive said before ive had problems before xanax use. everyone is so critical about things sometimes. take a step back and think about it really..

TOLERANCE is a matter of a what a drug is sometimes. thats just the truth of life. if a doctor or psychiatrist cant realize that and come to an understanding of what level is good for aperson then they need to thiink about a different career. tolerance is sometimes inevitable. and you have to balance it out from time to time.

i take .5mg 3x day i weigh 170. i only feel like i could use an extra pill a day because im just being honest. im only afraid to ask my psychiatrist because of people like *reef88 :no. *because maybe she will just think im trying to get more meds because im a drug addict or im experiencing issues with the drug. when in fact, i just feel like it would be more beneficial to have th extra pill or milligram a day.

.:luxury:.
:thanks


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> TOLERANCE is a matter of a what a drug is sometimes. thats just the truth of life. if a doctor or psychiatrist cant realize that and come to an understanding of what level is good for aperson then they need to thiink about a different career. tolerance is sometimes inevitable. and you have to balance it out from time to time.
> 
> i take .5mg 3x day i weigh 170. i only feel like i could use an extra pill a day because im just being honest. im only afraid to ask my psychiatrist because of people like *reef88 :no. *because maybe she will just think im trying to get more meds because im a drug addict or im experiencing issues with the drug. when in fact, i just feel like it would be more beneficial to have th extra pill or milligram a day.
> 
> ...


"TOLERANCE is a matter of a what a drug is sometimes" lol wth does that mean? tolerance is what you get when you use a drug regularly for a long enough period of time.

You have said it yourself bro, you take 0.5mg three times a day, now you want to take it 4 times. Like I said before, tolerance is inevitable, specially when a person takes Xanax 3-4 times a day. Tolerance leads to ineffectiveness of the drug due to it not being enough anymore.

These are facts about Xanax, google it and shove it down your own throat until it reaches your stomach and finally the knowledge will stay with you.

By the way, calling me a drug addict cause I took SSRI's for 6 months and they actually cured me, that was a pathetic but rather funny shot at me.

Have fun with your addiction, and go ahead and ask your doc for the extra pill, and please when you no longer feel the relief with those 4 0.5mg doses, come here and tell us how you want to up your dose, so you can put a smile on my face.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> HAA! this kid dont give up. man your really against xanax.
> 
> for your knowledge, i dont get withdrawals from xanax. i was waking up at night having ****ed up nightmares before i was ever on xanax. same with panic attacks and my bipolar.
> 
> ...


lol are you crazy or what? you already quoted me on this post. lol maybe that xanax is giving you some amnesia.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

lol whatever dude. just saying. works fine with me. haha. i cant take antipsychotic or antidepressants they **** me up. benzos work alright with me i just balance it. somehow my meds balance out where those no real addiction, just relief. still on the same amount. l8ter.:flush


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

By reefs own admission he has done coke+xanax a *million* times. I would expect that almost all of his dopamine related neurons are dead at this point. I tend to tune out whenever the pot starts calling the kettle black.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

istayhome said:


> By reefs own admission he has done coke+xanax a *million* times. I would expect that almost all of his dopamine related neurons are dead at this point. I tend to tune out whenever the pot starts calling the kettle black.


Yeah but only for sleeping, not mixing them like at the same time. It was effective as **** that's all I can say. I'm disappointed that most people, including blues85, who has close to no experience with benzos, refuse to listen to a guy who is very experienced. It's a pity. I wish you well blues85, and I hope you're right and they do fix whatever you have, I hope they don't kick you when you're down.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

reef88 said:


> Oh well I guess we're all different then. I know quite a few people who do Xanax only at night for sleeping and they have had to up the dosage.


That's interesting. I wouldn't have expected that; could be my theory needs some reworking.

It's possible that one reason for my lack of tolerance is not that I space the doses 24 hours apart, but that I test for dependence monthly - that is, once a month I go 2-4 days (in a row) without any alprazolam.



reef88 said:


> By the way, tolerance isn't only the up-regulation of glutamate, it also down-regulates GABA receptors. Both combined result in over-excitability of the CNS. This is why quitting cold turkey from heavy benzo use can be fatal.
> 
> I also heard from another forums that tolerance isn't just about a drug's half-life, but the constant impact of such drug on the CNS and the CNS responds with tolerance.


I believe all of this is true; it is, in fact, what I was saying (or attempting to) in the post you were responding to. Tolerance is caused by the drug's impact on the brain, so when and if the drug stops affecting the CNS and it has returned to baseline, tolerance will stop building. The problems happen when the brain has no time to return to baseline, so it gets used to the drug and reliant upon it.



blues85 said:


> TOLERANCE is a matter of a what a drug is sometimes. thats just the truth of life. if a doctor or psychiatrist cant realize that and come to an understanding of what level is good for aperson then they need to thiink about a different career. tolerance is sometimes inevitable. and you have to balance it out from time to time.


It's true that tolerance and dependence are sometimes inevitable. However, if you _can_ avoid them, it's best to do so; and some types of dependence are worse than others - thus my advice to try diazepam/Valium, since it will work throughout the day, is very effective and pleasant, and is easier to get off/doesn't have interdose withdrawal.

That said, if alprazolam works for you and you're not getting interdose withdrawal or anything like that, that's totally fine - just don't settle down before trying out all your options.



blues85 said:


> i take .5mg 3x day i weigh 170. i only feel like i could use an extra pill a day because im just being honest


I take 1.5mg one time a day, and I weigh 170lb... so we're pretty similar in terms of alprazolam use, it looks like. But why do you feel like you could use an extra pill a day? Did you always feel like you needed it, even when you first started?


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hulgil said:


> That's interesting. I wouldn't have expected that; could be my theory needs some reworking.
> 
> It's possible that one reason for my lack of tolerance is not that I space the doses 24 hours apart, but that I test for dependence monthly - that is, once a month I go 2-4 days (in a row) without any alprazolam.
> 
> ...


Problem is you can't avoid tolerance when taking Xanax 3 times a day, specially if you want to take it 4 times a day, no matter what the current dosage. If blues85 claims that he doesn't develop tolerance while taking Xanax this way, either he is the 0.1% (*if*there's even a possibility) that don't develop tolerance to benzos, or he is full of ****, or he's just blind and can't see the truth. *One of these three has to be it.*

This is why I also recommend trying Valium which has a faster onset than Clonazepam, and it stays in your body a very long time, it's the easiest benzo to taper off, and you only have to take it once a day, twice at most. I'm thinking this is what's eventually going to happen, blues85's doc is gonna switch him after he has reached a higher dose (3-4mg a day, supposing his doc isn't the kind of doc that will take a patient to high doses of relatively dangerous meds) to either Valium, or Clonazepam, probably Valium seeing blues85 already said Clonazepam did nothing for him, maybe due to it's slow onset and _too_ gradual come up and come down, which is the complete opposite of Xanax.

By the way, I found on the ashton manual that the Xanax-Valium ratio is 1:20.. but I've found several people saying it's actually 1:10.. I haven't gotten to a definitive answer on this yet.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

Hulgil said:


> I take 1.5mg one time a day, and I weigh 170lb... so we're pretty similar in terms of alprazolam use, it looks like. But why do you feel like you could use an extra pill a day? Did you always feel like you needed it, even when you first started?


when i first started yes i knew i would need more than what i was given. but i had to start low doses to please my doctors wishes in making sense of giving me a good dosage that will work. i started out at ****ing .25mg twice daily. that was a pain. i knew it wouldnt help me enough. eventually after letting my dr know it was plainly not enough, i reached .5mg 3x daily and its where ive stayed because my dr told me that was biggest dosage i could get from her.. im guessing because she probably has her own limits and / or beliefs about this particular drug, because of its known problems in 'some' people or whatever.

i still take the .5mg 3x daily and have been for several months without any real problems. 
furthermore;
i also test my dependancy on the drug i guess in a way as well. once i start noticing tolerance build up i have no choice but to not take it fora day to get my tolerance down enough to feel the same effects and make it last til my refill. so maybe i was a little ignorant about the tolerance aspect and thats why i feel like an extra pill a day would help the whole balance of my refills. i dont believe that i would need to get more and more mg's upped each month though. i think 2mg a day would be perfect for me and wouldnt go over that amount. so no *reef88* im not gonna keep wanting to up and up and up my dosage forever. its just a matter of reaching a good balance of mg's. and i just believe 2mg a day would be the best balance.
_"ps" i never said there was no tolerance build up as you can see in my earlier post saying that tolerance is inevitable with any drug its just a matter of balancing out that tolerance to an appropiate amount._

for now its just going to have to be 90 .5mg pills a month and i will have to make due by taking breaks from the xanax because i dont get enough a month right now to completely cover all my days. which sucks but i am getting a lot of relief from the .5mg 3x day anyways and its certainly much better than having none and having my bipolar kick in full speed.

i guess also that longer acting benzos would not be so terrible. i have been on valium before and that worked very well, not klonopin though that stuff made me crazier. i just like how xanax is in and out of my system so quickly i guess because it seems to make me less anxious some how and has a very powerful swift feeling of complete quietness where i can concenstrate my panic attacks or mania to a level of comjplete okayness.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

reef88 said:


> Problem is you can't avoid tolerance when taking Xanax 3 times a day, specially if you want to take it 4 times a day, no matter what the current dosage. If blues85 claims that he doesn't develop tolerance while taking Xanax this way, either he is the 0.1% (*if*there's even a possibility) that don't develop tolerance to benzos, or he is full of ****, or he's just blind and can't see the truth. *One of these three has to be it.*
> 
> This is why I also recommend trying Valium which has a faster onset than Clonazepam, and it stays in your body a very long time, it's the easiest benzo to taper off, and you only have to take it once a day, twice at most. I'm thinking this is what's eventually going to happen, blues85's doc is gonna switch him after he has reached a higher dose (3-4mg a day, supposing his doc isn't the kind of doc that will take a patient to high doses of relatively dangerous meds) to either Valium, or Clonazepam, probably Valium seeing blues85 already said Clonazepam did nothing for him, maybe due to it's slow onset and _too_ gradual come up and come down, which is the complete opposite of Xanax.
> 
> By the way, I found on the ashton manual that the Xanax-Valium ratio is 1:20.. but I've found several people saying it's actually 1:10.. I haven't gotten to a definitive answer on this yet.


I think that the Xanax:valium ratio is probably subjective. and both have different effects. Though both are benzodiazapines it really seems like comparing apples to oranges, both are fruits but different people will like different ones. I have seen both 1:10 and 1:20 quoted in reputable literature. Subjectively I feel like it is 1:10 to me.

Also, having been at the same dose of xanax and valium for 2 years I must say that I am very grateful to be in that 0.1% of people of which you speak. I wish other medications worked half as well for me.


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## Tyler Bro (Apr 27, 2012)

I take .5 whenever I need to go out or do something. If you take xanax or any other benzo like 0192018401 times a day, your going to build up a tolerance and then your going to go through withdraw. Seen it happen to so many people, it's not easy.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> when i first started yes i knew i would need more than what i was given. but i had to start low doses to please my doctors wishes in making sense of giving me a good dosage that will work. i started out at ****ing .25mg twice daily. that was a pain. i knew it wouldnt help me enough. eventually after letting my dr know it was plainly not enough, i reached .5mg 3x daily and its where ive stayed because my dr told me that was biggest dosage i could get from her.. im guessing because she probably has her own limits and / or beliefs about this particular drug, because of its known problems in 'some' people or whatever.
> 
> i still take the .5mg 3x daily and have been for several months without any real problems.
> furthermore;
> ...


Look dude everyone talks about "yeah I can do this", just like you're saying you're balancing out your tolerance (which in fact you cannot do in a single day, it takes one or two weeks to reach tolerance, and it takes the same or more to lower it). Now you seem to handle yourself very well taking your doses at the correct time of the day, it's cool if you can keep it up. But the main problem I see is that you rely on it too much, and you never know when your doc or anything else is gonna prevent you from taking Xanax.

For me, tolerance would always build up, in two weeks tops, after two weeks I would need a bigger dose. This is very common, in fact most people react like this to Xanax (if you are not one then let me know). So you either up the dose, or take the same dose to feel a sort of semi-relief, or you start to taper down a bit just to get back on track and then keep taking it. I did this all the time, I would start at 0.5mg a day, then 1mg, then 2mg, by the time I reached 4mg a day I tapered down all the way to 0.5mg, and started all over again. This however is an illusion of being under control, the substance is controlling you, you can decide not to take it, but you'll withdraw and feel depressed, anxious and even maybe suicidal.

I'm really interested in the details of how you balance your Xanax use to avoid tolerance though, please tell me.


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

I have a lot of experience with benzos and I have read just about all the scientific literature that exists on them, so let's just say this is a topic I am familiar with. Now I am not here to call anyone a drug addict or tell anyone how they should live their lives. I just want to give out the facts on benzos and some opinions as well based on my experience with them and the experiences of many other people I have spoken with. 
This thread has gone on so long, I am not sure where to start. I guess first I will deal with the whole drug addict thing. Yes, it is true that if you take benzos every day to help you deal with your problems, this could be seen as a "drug addiction" as benzos basically act to dampen the brain's activity and make you not feel as much. This is not fundamentally different from drinking alcohol or taking opiates or some other drug. However, my stance on this is so what? If someone needs to take a drug for a while to help them get through the day, who am I to judge them? It certainly isn't an ideal way to live, that's for sure, but my point is, I am against the idea of a stigma being applied to drug addicts. And of course, anyone who smokes tobacco or needs coffee to wake up in the morning is technically a drug addict also. 
Now given that, you might think I am defending the long term prescription benzodiazepines. However, nothing could be further from the truth. Why? Simply put, because they are not safe. They have a high propensity to cause serious, long term changes/damage to a person's brain, a devastating dependence. I wish this weren't the case. I wish benzos were good drugs that could help lots of people and not hurt them, but unfortunately that's not the reality. Let me tell you that if they developed a benzo, which would relieve anxiety and NOT harm a person's GABA receptors, I would be all for it. People could take benzos to help them get through a difficult period, or even their whole life in some cases. Would it be drug addiction? Sure, if you want to call it that. But as long as the drug is safe and helping the person I think sometimes the benefits can outweigh the costs. A key thing for a drug to be safe though, is that it must be possible to STOP taking the drug. I mean, what happens if you have taken a drug for an extended period of time and then suddenly it stops working the way it did before and instead begins to cause horrible side effects and no more good effects? Well, then you must stop taking it. This is why no one should ever allow themselves to become dependent on benzodiazepines. It can be next to impossible to stop taking them. And then, the withdrawal makes whatever problems you had before hand, look like a vacation im comparison. Benzo withdrawal can go on for years with little to no improvement seen. In fact, I didn't even really begin to notice improvement until nearly 2 years after completing my taper. Those first two years were utter hell on earth. They were so awful, my brain has mostly blocked the memory of them because it cannot even think of something so horrific. I remember considering suicide every 10 minutes. I remember feeling like I could not take another minute, when I knew it would probably be YEARS before I even begun to feel better, if I ever did, as many people don't. I was positive my life would end in suicide during the entire first year of withdrawal. But I will stop describing my own experience and try to make a few more points here. 
I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but I feel people do deserve to be warned as well as possible before they make a decision which can result in as much suffering as benzo withdrawal, a fate that can truly be far worse than death. What benzos do essentially is cause a person's GABA receptors to adapt to the presense of the benzo. Once this has happened, the brain can no longer function properly on its own and it MUST have a certain level of benzo in it. When the benzo is removed, the GABA receptors do not always go back to normal. WHether they do or dont generally depends on the person and the length of time they took benzos daily. 
It is complete folly to think "benzos help me, so I will take them for my 'disorder'. Just because benzos help you now, does not mean they will continue to do so in the future and unlike other drugs, when they stop working you might not be able to stop taking them Thats what makes them so dangerous. It's not that tolerance is a black whole ever increasing, it's more a matter that over time as the brain ​becomes damaged by benzos, the benzos will lose their positive effects and start causing a host of negative ones. This happens so gradually, you dont even realize it is the benzo causing it, until it is far too late. I did not have any problems for the first year or two of my benzo usage. I have spoken to some people who don't have problems for 3 years or 5 years or even 10 years. No one can say for sure when the benzos will stop working, it depends on the person, but when they do, oh boy. I began to notice I didnt enjoy the things I used to, I had no energy, no sex drive, crazy mood swings, extreme depression, paranpoia, anixety, crazy obessesive thoughts, irritiability, sensititivty to things, benzos caused all that before I even began to withdraw from them. 
"If I only take a low dose, and follow my doctors advice I will be safe, right?" WRONG. It does not matter what dose you take, if the dose is enough to have a theapeutic effect, it is enough to cause dependence and withdrawal. Some of the people who suffer the most, were on tiny doses. I have talked to people who lost everything, their jobs, their homes, their marriages, etc, from a tiny dose of benzo and ended up so ill they had to spend a couple of years in bed. Now that doesn't happen to everyone of course, but there is no way of knowing how you will react to benzos until its too late and what can happen is so unimaginably awful that after having this info I just given you, you would have to be crazy or in denial to take the risk. But don't take my word for it. Research benzos yourselves. Go to benzo.org.uk and benzobuddies.org. The latter is a forum where you can speak to people who actually coming off benzos, ask them if these drugs are safe. Just the existence of the forum should be a red flag.

I can guarantee you that the "benzo horror stories" you read on the internet, are TRUE. Take it from someone who has actually been through it.


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

> for now its just going to have to be 90 .5mg pills a month and i will have to make due by taking breaks from the xanax because i dont get enough a month right now to completely cover all my days.


You are aware you can have seizures and even die if you do take a "break" from xanax, right? Also, if you follow your doctors instructions like you said you were doing, why wouldn't you have enough?


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

I also want to add that I am not against benzodiazepines. I think they are great drugs when used properly, which is on an occasional bases. In fact, I recently gave some of my leftover xanax to a buddy of mine to help him sleep after his LSD trips (with stern warning of what would happen should he become addicted of course). So I am not one of those people who thinks benzos should be wiped from the face of the earth or anything, I actually think they are useful drugs. But they are highly dangerous and extreme care/caution must be used around them, mainly in the sense of not using them too often. Taking benzodiazepines every day is pure idiocy. They aren't even that powerful in the sense of their effects, although they are _extremely powerful_ in regard to what they do to one's brain.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

Recipe For Disaster said:


> You are aware you can have seizures and even die if you do take a "break" from xanax, right? Also, if you follow your doctors instructions like you said you were doing, why wouldn't you have enough?


i am given xanax PRN. so actually i am still following my doctors rules.:sus

and i periodically take breaks from the drug to maintain my small dose prescription of .5mg 90/month, because i build up a tolerance after a few weeks and its just not enough to cover all my days. 2mg seems more managable, thats all.

and i never experience convulsions or death when taking these mandatory breaks to sustain having enough to last until refill. which is more so for falling asleep, i also use this med as a sleep aid and to do that i sometimes need to take one more once tolerance builds after few weeks. 
which some people see as a major problem and i dont, like ive said its just about balancing out till the refill and having an appropiate amoount to do so.

its not a big deal that im just below what i feel i need for improving my sleep in addition to my depression and episodes with what im prescribed now but i wonder about asking for additional mgs to subside all my symptoms.


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## tiki girl (May 9, 2012)

I take that 025 mg maybe once or twice a week- there is one day of the week that is particulary stressful and I cannot survive it without them- I take one before bedtime and one in the morning on the way to work- I don't have any of those negative side effects the other days- My DR didnt mention my taking it like this would be a problem either- I do expect to increase the dose during an upcoming flight in a couple weeks- as I am already freaking about all the TSA rules and traveling with kids etc.... :um


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

DId you listen to anything I said? Of course you dont experience convulsions or death when you take a break. That is because you havent been taking it that long yet and do not yet have a severe dependence. However, if you continue to take this drug as you have been, you will eventually become dependent upon it. After this happens, it may begin to cause negative effects on you and stop having the positive effects you are experiencing now. Then you may find it near impossible to get off it. I went through 2.5 years of sheer hell on earth (during which time my brain was so disabled that at the start, I could not even follow the plot of a simple television show) to come off this med. These drugs are not safe, they cause serious changes/damage to your BRAIN and GABA receptor, you only get one brain. 

But you seem hellbent on self destruction, so I cannot stop you. Just don't say we didn't warn you. I am merely trying to save you from the hell I went through, which frankly I wonder if you are strong enough to survive. I am trying to help you as best I can. So please man, please go to benzobuddies.org and research this drug you are taking. Ask the people there whether it is a safe med. Please, research it more thoroughly before you risk throwing your life away.


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## Hulgil (Oct 4, 2010)

Recipe For Disaster said:


> I guess first I will deal with the whole drug addict thing. Yes, it is true that if you take benzos every day to help you deal with your problems, this could be seen as a "drug addiction" as benzos basically act to dampen the brain's activity and make you not feel as much. This is not fundamentally different from drinking alcohol or taking opiates or some other drug. However, my stance on this is so what? If someone needs to take a drug for a while to help them get through the day, who am I to judge them? It certainly isn't an ideal way to live, that's for sure, but my point is, I am against the idea of a stigma being applied to drug addicts. And of course, anyone who smokes tobacco or needs coffee to wake up in the morning is technically a drug addict also.


Good stuff. I like to use the metaphor of a crutch: people say "oh, those drugs are just a crutch. They don't fix the problems, just treat the symptoms." Sure, maybe; but you could say that to a one-legged man too: "oh, you're just using a crutch. It doesn't fix the problem, only the symptoms."

Sometimes you need a crutch. It'd be better not to, but there's nothing wrong with it; no one blames a one-legged man for using a stick to help himself get around.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

d829 said:


> Omg
> 
> Being responsible has nothing to do with your GABA receptors
> Why would anyone need that much Xanax ?
> ...


I agree, people are far too complacent about benzos and don't understand what long-term daily use can do to you in terms of permanent changes to the GABA receptors in the brain, sometimes permanent irreversible affects on memory and cognititive ability, plus the tolerance and rebound effect.

If you're using benzos as a last option to control chronic anxiety or manic behaviour that is out of control, then really you should do it with some clear objective or plan..i.e. 3 months of treatment with a view to tapering down and using other treatments.. or perhaps to ease the withdrawals of meds or a substance addiction..

Many years ago after trying all different meds for my SA I finally pursuaded my doctor to prescribe Valium (at a low dose - 2mg) and I would take these as and when needed and no more than 2 a day and probably used them about 2 or 3 times a week. I continued that for a year or so while I was undergoing CBT and group therapy. They helped me to get out of the house and do my day to day things like shopping. I never experienced any withdrawal symptoms or tolerance and was able to come off them quite quickly once my confidence and social skills began to improve.

I think you need to watch out with Xanax, of all the benzos I think it's among those which has the potential for problems with rebound anxiety and tolerance due to its short half-life.. if you want to take a benzo daily it makes sense to take diazepam or something with a much longer half-life so it stays in your system longer and you don't need to keep re-dosing during the day.


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## blues85 (Apr 22, 2012)

*ohh please*



Recipe For Disaster said:


> But you seem hellbent on self destruction, so I cannot stop you. Just don't say we didn't warn you. I am merely trying to save you from the hell I went through, which frankly I wonder if you are strong enough to survive. I am trying to help you as best I can. So please man, please go to benzobuddies.org and research this drug you are taking. Ask the people there whether it is a safe med. Please, research it more thoroughly before you risk throwing your life away.


if i was hell bent on self destruction i would not be taking my xanax or be on medication at all. benzos are the only medication out there right now that i know of and have tried that works for my bipolar. if i wasnt on meds this would cause me serious problems, whether ive got a dependancy or not, because im just ****ed up in the head and i gotta have medication to keep me on board with the rest of the world. otherwise i fall into a deep stupor of uncomfortable mania fits, depression, panic attacks and sleep problems. and who knows where that would lead.

some yall really need to lay off the benzo bashing, because some of us who really need those medications are really benefiting from them. some people say even taking xanax .5mg 3x day is insane, and you know what i tell them, guess what i am quite insane so to speak, im ****ed up in the head and yeah i guess thats just how ****ed up i am in the head that i need daily xanax treatment.

so all this talk about xanax addiction and coming off xanax being hell, well, im sure it would be, im sure i would cope by tapering off or using something else to taper myself off if i had to. but the fact of the matter is, i greatly need the benzos to slow down the chemicals in my brain because otherwise ****s too ****ed up in my head broski.

and i can tell you another thing, i have researched this drug along with many other drugs, and its safe. i can also tell you id rather have chemicals slow down in my brain with the xanax then have some serotonin inhibitor messin around with my serontonin in my brain making me someone im not or just making me completely insane. been there done that.

yeah im really throwing my life away by taking a prescribed medication named ALPRAZOLAM to help me cope with my bipolar. that makes no sense what so ever. just because some people get addicted and have trouble balancing out their dosages, doesnt mean everyone has the same problem. obviously just about any medication can be abused and by doing so one can suffere extreme consequences, this is a fact of life, get over it dude.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

blues85 said:


> loxapine doesnt sound like a terrible medication. i dont know i have never taken that before.. ive been on depakote, celexa, klonopin, valium, a few mood stablizers i really cant remember but i would if i saw the name probably, also a few antipyschotics my friends have given me that made me feel really ****ing weird. ive tried ativan too my friends have had and wow that was a great experience it worked really well for me it seemed but never prescribed it.. by the way that was when i was not on any meds so i was trying whatever i could get to keep myself sane.:twak


Would one of those mood stabilizers be Lamictal? I get the impression that it seems to be the one most favored meds by bipolar people. I've heard that bipolar hypo/mania can manifest itself as extreme anxiety, so I guess your doctors thinking that you'll need a mood stabilizer to keep the mania from happening and causing the anxiety.


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

blues85 Listen, I am trying to help you. I don't have to do this. I could leave you to learn the hard way and because of your refusal to listen, it looks that is going to be what ends up happening to you. However, I am going to make one more post trying to explain to you the risks of benzos.



> if i was hell bent on self destruction i would not be taking my xanax or be on medication at all. benzos are the only medication out there right now that i know of and have tried that works for my bipolar. if i wasnt on meds this would cause me serious problems, whether ive got a dependancy or not, because im just ****ed up in the head and i gotta have medication to keep me on board with the rest of the world. otherwise i fall into a deep stupor of uncomfortable mania fits, depression, panic attacks and sleep problems. and who knows where that would lead.


Firstly, how did you survive your whole life up until now without benzos? Secondly, I want you to realize every benzo addict started out like you. "but i feel so bad and they are the only thing that helps wah wah wah. "



> some yall really need to lay off the benzo bashing, because some of us who really need those medications are really benefiting from them. some people say even taking xanax .5mg 3x day is insane, and you know what i tell them, guess what i am quite insane so to speak, im ****ed up in the head and yeah i guess thats just how ****ed up i am in the head that i need daily xanax treatment.


 Dude, I have taken Xanax. I was a person just like you who "needed" it. Let me ask you this, what if it were to stop working? What will you do then? I took Xanax every day and it worked for about a year. After that, I started to notice not only that it wasn't working as well, but I started having problems I didn't even have before like mood swings, no energy , no joy in music or activities I used to enjoy, irritability, sensitivity to noise and more. I didn't realize it at the time, but the Xanax was causing all of these things. The Xanax was making me sick. At this point, I did not know what to do. I was terrified to come off Xanax because I had read so many horror stories about withdrawal lasting for years, so I decided to keep taking it even though it was making me sick. What do you think happened? It kept making me sicker and sicker until I was so sick that I felt like I had no choice but to try to get off Xanax, either that or commit suicide. I spent 6 months gradually reducing my dose and by the time I got off, I was in such bad shape, I couldn't even follow the plot of a simple television show. My brain was very disabled. I was in extreme pain constantly and every 10 or 15 seconds a jolt of even more pain would shoot through my body. I had loud ringing in my ears, I lost all ability to feel emotions except the most negative ones like anger and despair, I lost the ability to think clearly, I had pressure in my head, felt off balance, inner vibrations (basically felt like I was sitting on a boat's motor when I was actually completely still) extreme burning in my mind, depression, sensitivity to sound and light. Let's just say I was in complete hell. I did not even know it was possible to feel that bad or suffer that much and I thought about suicide every 10 minutes. But rather than kill myself, I decided I wanted to fight to try to get my life back, because even the life that I had hated so much before benzos seemed like a vacation compared to how I felt then. So I pushed forward one day at a time and after about 2 years, I started feeling a little better. Now after almost three years, I am about 70% better. I still have some residual brain damage, ringing in my ear, cognitive impairment, memory problems and anhedonia but I am very thankful for how far ive come.



> so all this talk about xanax addiction and coming off xanax being hell, well, im sure it would be, im sure i would cope by tapering off or using something else to taper myself off if i had to. but the fact of the matter is, i greatly need the benzos to slow down the chemicals in my brain because otherwise ****s too ****ed up in my head broski.
> 
> and i can tell you another thing, i have researched this drug along with many other drugs, and its safe. i can also tell you id rather have chemicals slow down in my brain with the xanax then have some serotonin inhibitor messin around with my serontonin in my brain making me someone im not or just making me completely insane. been there done that.


 Tell me where you researched it. What papers did you read? What websites did you visit? Which researchers? Which studies? Who did you talk to? I can assure you that If you think it is safe, you have not researched it properly. I am living proof that it is not safe and I can also post you studies showing the risks. Are you familiar with the work of dr heather ashton and dr. maclom Lahder? They are two of the worlds leading benzo researchers and neither of them would ever call these drugs safe. I also suggest you read "the benzo book" by jack hobson dupont.



> yeah im really throwing my life away by taking a prescribed medication named ALPRAZOLAM to help me cope with my bipolar. that makes no sense what so ever. just because some people get addicted and have trouble balancing out their dosages, doesnt mean everyone has the same problem. obviously just about any medication can be abused and by doing so one can suffere extreme consequences, this is a fact of life, get over it dude.


 What is there to get over? I am concerned that you do not understand what you are really doing to your brain by taking benzos long term and I am trying to warn you of the dangers, that's all. If you still want to continue with your addiction, then I can't stop you can I? Just don't come crying to me when it stops working and you're suffering from the long term effects. Let me explain why I am concerned. You say "just because some people get addicted and have trouble balancing out their dosages, doesnt mean everyone has the same problem" and "obviously just about any medication can be abused". To me, these statements indicate that you do not have a proper under standing of the dangers of benzodiazepines. For you see, it is not abuse of the medication, or "trouble balancing out" the dosage (whatever that means) that is the trouble. Is it possible to become psychologically addicted to benzos and take too much? Of course. Is that what I am trying to warn you about? Absolutely not. What I am trying to warn you about, is the fact that even if you never raise your dose, or become psychologically addicted, even if you hate how Xanax makes you feel, if you take it daily, your brain, your GABA receptors will adapt to its precense. This is what I want you to research about. 
For you see, once your GABA receptor has become fully dependent on the benzo (and this will eventually happen if you take it every day. It might take 6 months, it might take a year, it might take four years, no one can say exactly when) then your brain will no longer be able to function without it. It will no longer have a benefit to you, but only cause side effects. The way you feel, will be dependent on the level of benzo in your blood. That is not a good way to be. 
So I am just trying to warn you so you don't have to go through the hell that I so many others went through after becoming dependent on benzos that our doctors prescribed to us for our disorders. Don't fall for the illusion. Of course the benzo will make you feel better now so you think "oh this is great, I will just take this drug". The problem is, your brain adapts to the drug. You cannot assume that because the benzo affects you a certain way now, you cannot assume that it will continue to have that effect six month from now or a year from or two year from now. Do you understand what I am telling you? 
I know you probably won't listen anyway, so go ahead and take your benzo and enjoy your descent into benzo hell. Remember the descent to hell is easy. It's getting out that is the problem. All the best.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

wow recipe for disaster your story has me pretty scared (seriously). I've been on xanax and valium for two years. I knew the dangers before I started, I actually read a lot of the sources you suggested beforehand. I could see a lot of anecdotal stories that some people had a harder time getting off than others. Either way it was a class of drugs I never wanted to deal with. In the end it came down to life or death for me. I had been agoraphobic for a year I think I went weeks without leaving my room except to use the bathroom. I couldn't sleep, eat or stop shaking. 

I never wanted to be on them long term. I started therapy and at this point I have tried way to many anti-depressants and mood stabilizers to list. My hope was always, "This medication will work for me, therapy will help and I'll get off benzos." That hasn't happened. I haven't developed any tolerance to benzos fortunately, haven't increased the dose. They seem to be the only drug that has consistently worked for me.

They're no miracle cure and as you tell can be quite damaging. I guess I'm thankful that there is a medication available which has helped me. I wish it wasn't a necessity and as much as they help I cringe every time I have to take a pill. But they have kept me alive so I believe they have their place in the pharmacy. A necessary evil I suppose. I just pray I don't go through what you described. The only thing worse than where I was when I started is death.


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## eyedlemon (Jan 11, 2007)

Stoked my doc prescribed me Xanax after only my second visit...I didn't even have to ask. I've had a steady supply for a while now, but I don't take it anymore because it's not prescribed to me, and I would run the risk of losing my job after a random drug test. It's only 20 tabs, but all that matters is that it's in my system legally. I can get all I want from other sources.

That said, I only use it sparingly anyway--maybe once a week. It's the darndest thing...I'll take 0.25 mg and be in a great mood for up to a day or two. It makes no sense from a pharmcokinetic perspective, but I won't complain.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

blues85 said:


> if i was hell bent on self destruction i would not be taking my xanax or be on medication at all. benzos are the only medication out there right now that i know of and have tried that works for my bipolar. if i wasnt on meds this would cause me serious problems, whether ive got a dependancy or not, because im just ****ed up in the head and i gotta have medication to keep me on board with the rest of the world. otherwise i fall into a deep stupor of uncomfortable mania fits, depression, panic attacks and sleep problems. and who knows where that would lead.
> 
> some yall really need to lay off the benzo bashing, because some of us who really need those medications are really benefiting from them. some people say even taking xanax .5mg 3x day is insane, and you know what i tell them, guess what i am quite insane so to speak, im ****ed up in the head and yeah i guess thats just how ****ed up i am in the head that i need daily xanax treatment.
> 
> ...


It's you who needs to get over Xanax dude. lol you still don't get it. You are already running short on pills until your next prescription, lets see how you feel those days without Xanax, I'm sure they will be lovely. I warned you a few times now, I stopped caring whether you die on this stuff or not a long time ago, but I'm bored and wanted to tell you that you think Xanax is helping you, which it probably is, but you haven't reached the point of high doses or addiction, which you will specially if you take it PRN everyday. Good luck with those withdrawals.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Recipe For Disaster said:


> blues85 Listen, I am trying to help you. I don't have to do this. I could leave you to learn the hard way and because of your refusal to listen, it looks that is going to be what ends up happening to you. However, I am going to make one more post trying to explain to you the risks of benzos.
> 
> Firstly, how did you survive your whole life up until now without benzos? Secondly, I want you to realize every benzo addict started out like you. "but i feel so bad and they are the only thing that helps wah wah wah. "
> 
> ...


About the GABAa receptors, don't be so dramatic. The body always reacts with homeostasis. After long enough use of Alprazolam GABAnergic neurons will down-regulate the GABAa receptors, meaning you will have less receptors for your Alprazolam to bind to, therefore not getting the same effects. This is what you call tolerance. After prolonged used of Alprazolam you may have not many GABAa receptors comparing to what you did before starting taking Alorazolam, so if you stop taking it you'll go through withdrawals, and they're not pretty.

GABAa receptors grow again, with time, after tapering off Alprazolam, even after reaching the point where you no longer take it, you still have a tolerance to it because the GABAa receptors still haven't grown. It takes months for your GABAnergic neurons to recover and fully lose all your tolerance to benzos.

I've always criticized blues85, because he thinks he's taking sugar pills. He completely denies that he is going to have problems just because he takes it as his doctor prescribed it and he doesn't abuse it. The problems with Alprazolam, and many other benzos, come whether you abuse or not the substance, if you abuse it'll be much greater of course, but not abusing it is still gonna bite you in the ***, specially if we're talking about one (if not the most) addictive benzo there is.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

reef88 said:


> I warned you a few times now, I stopped caring whether you die on this stuff or not a long time ago, but I'm bored


Why do you keep telling someone who suffers from severe bipolar that you don't care if he lives or dies? Even if you truly feel that way you're only doing harm by posting that on a support forum. Not only harming blue85 but harming your own character and integrity.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

istayhome said:


> Why do you keep telling someone who suffers from severe bipolar that you don't care if he lives or dies? Even if you truly feel that way you're only doing harm by posting that on a support forum. Not only harming blue85 but harming your own character and integrity.


A lot of people don't care about blues85. I'm just pointing it out. And he doesn't care about my opinion, so technically I'm not harming him. I tried to help him all I could, but he is so stubborn that there's just no way of helping him. I wanna see how things are with blues85 6 months from now.


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

I don't understand this reef, you spend days arguing with me and now all of a sudden you're on my side? 

And yes reef, blues85 is stubborn and it looks as if that is going to be his downfall. You just can't fix serious psychological issues simply by taking xanax. Those issues will eventually resurface and will need to be dealt with, in addition to the xanax dependence.


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

Recipe For Disaster said:


> I don't understand this reef, you spend days arguing with me and now all of a sudden you're on my side?
> 
> And yes reef, blues85 is stubborn and it looks as if that is going to be his downfall. You just can't fix serious psychological issues simply by taking xanax. Those issues will eventually resurface and will need to be dealt with, in addition to the xanax dependence.


I can't even remember what we were arguing about. lol. Anyway, I think this is a different matter though. We're talking about a bipolar person who is relying on Xanax, which he takes several times a day, and he expects to have no issues with tolerance and/or addiction, this is ridiculous. I'm not too worried because probably his psychiatrist is gonna cut him off sooner or later, before or after he realizes we were right and he was dead wrong.

Xanax is one of the benzos that develops tolerance the quickest and leave side-effects aside, you are just gonna have to up the dose, simple as that. There will be a point where you are going to be taken 4-6mg a day or maybe even more for those who want to take big risks, and at that point you're gonna have to taper, and you're gonna hate it, simple because you love Xanax. Wake up blues85, I've been telling you.

I know him enough now that I know he's going to say that he doesn't abuse the drug like "others" and he takes it as his doctor prescribed him (which is PRN lol) and he already running low, he'll go through withdrawal for those few days, but it'll teach him a lesson. Anyway like I was saying, abusing or not, your body doesn't care about this, it's the intake of substances that make your body tolerance and addicted, not abuse.

I honestly don't care anymore, I've tried to help so many times. If he wants to take the tough road it's his decision . I took the tough road once, of course I didn't have anyone to warn me or guide me, but it sure taught me a lesson, you do not mess with benzos, unless you are an experienced user and know how to handle tolerance, how to taper off, and a few other things you gain from experience, which blues85 doesn't have.:yes


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm quoting blues85 on this:

" its just a matter of reaching a good balance of mg's. and i just believe 2mg a day would be the best balance.
"ps" i never said there was no tolerance build up as you can see in my earlier post saying that tolerance is inevitable with any drug its just a matter of balancing out that tolerance to an appropiate amount."

Tell me exactly how do you do this, please.


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