# Ritalin crash?



## kokasit (Jan 6, 2011)

Today I decided to give Ritalin another try. I felt a very pleasant feeling for about 2-3 hours, then a terrible anxiety strongly kicked in. Taking another dose only made it worse. Has anyone else experienced this and what can I do to avoid this crash?


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## jimbo1 (Dec 26, 2010)

take less of it, or switch to another stimulant if the crash is really bad.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

yeah, Ritalin is known to have a horrible crash. You could try extended version of Dexedrine, it has a much smoother and more stable effect. Lasts about 12 hours instead of Ritalin's 2-4 hrs.


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## kokasit (Jan 6, 2011)

alte said:


> yeah, Ritalin is known to have a horrible crash. You could try extended version of Dexedrine, it has a much smoother and more stable effect. Lasts about 12 hours instead of Ritalin's 2-4 hrs.


Unfortunately the only drugs available in my country are ritalin and Concerta. Both have a bad crash, the difference is that concerta doesn't make me anxious but makes me sad and depressed. Which is why I'm trying to find other options to minimize these effects.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Cycle it.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ugh, this reminds me of those 2 months i took ritalin, sometimes it induced horrible jitters that just wouldnt go away, the crashes sucked too but a amp crash is heaven in comparison as you can sleep, with ritalin its plagued with terrible jitters, but offcourse YMMV.

I found the supplement curcumin to be very helpfull with amp crashes.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

I took 20mg of Ritalin daily for a month. It had no noticeable effect until like the last 2 days of the month. But the doctor switched it and I'm back on regular antidepressants.

Never felt any anxiety or noticeable crash.


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## hanzsolo (Jan 2, 2011)

Yes Ritalin can have a bad crash. I am sorry you had issues with your second dose, and that it only made matters worse. Been there done that and it's no fun. 

I initially tried concerta 18mg and felt great the first few days, but then started to feel anxious and jittery after a few hours. Then went to 27mg concerta and once again felt great the first 2-3 days and then back to anxious and jittery. 

My next plan was to start the day with concerta and add Ritalin IR in the afternoon when I started to crash. But the timing was very difficult, and I still ended up with crashes. 

My last resort RE concerta /ritalin was to use Ritalin IR (same as concerta but no time release) and am taking 5 doses per day usually spaced out every 2-3 hours and am having difficulties after only 6 days of this (meaning having crashes in between doses and later in the day as well).. So I am also coming to the conclusion that Concerta /Ritalin is not for me either.

It's unfortunate you cannot try another stimulant, as many people have reported much easier come downs (and better success) on dexedrine. 

Can you try a lower dose and see if that helps? Another option is straterra if it's available in your area, not the exact same but can sometimes help with ADHD issues. Also adding an anti depressant can sometimes help level out the crashes so they are not as bad. 

The most important thing to keep in mind is that everyone is different, so what works for you may not for me and vice versa. You need to experiment yourself and see what works for you.

Hope that helps


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

heroin what antidepressant you are taking?

I have very mixed feelings about ritalin...On it I'm more calm in some situations-even with other people but I'm so serious-I don't like it. I was thinking that if I cure my ADD, my problems would go away, but I think the first thing to battle is depression-if you have it. Methylphenidate didn't fight my anhedonia, I was more concentrate but still don't feel pleasure from things. On ritalin I was less anxious in some situations but more depressed.

Now I'm on fluoxetine 20mg (3 days), hope it will help. Today I'm anxious :f Hope this med will kick in.


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## kokasit (Jan 6, 2011)

crayzyMed said:


> Ugh, this reminds me of those 2 months i took ritalin, sometimes it induced horrible jitters that just wouldnt go away, the crashes sucked too but a amp crash is heaven in comparison as you can sleep, with ritalin its plagued with terrible jitters, but offcourse YMMV.
> 
> I found the supplement curcumin to be very helpfull with amp crashes.


I took 1g of L-Tyrosine last night and the jitters and anxiety stopped. Interesting reaction. I guess the Ritalin depleted my dopamine and the tyrosine helped to restore it.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

kokasit said:


> I took 1g of L-Tyrosine last night and the jitters and anxiety stopped. Interesting reaction. I guess the Ritalin depleted my dopamine and the tyrosine helped to restore it.


I've wondered about stimulants temporarily reducing L-dopa levels and thus dopamine synthesis through an indirect action on dopamine autoreceptors that reduces tyrosine hydroxylase, the enzyme that makes L-dopa.

A certain scientific paper said D2 autoreceptors, when activated, inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase (TH). D3 autoreceptors on the other hand were said to inhibit dopamine release when activated by dopamine or another substance. Reuptake inhibitor stimulants (like Ritalin) would be expected to be caught especially so by the D3 autoreceptor mechanism because they don't force dopamine release as releasing agents (Adderall, Dexedrine) do. Regardless, both would be expected to fall prey to D2 autoreceptors and their reduction of L-dopa levels, as they both increase dopamine between neurons where those pesky "dopamine sensors" lie.

So I tried combining both drugs with a drug that is specifically proven to selectively block both D2 and D3 autoreceptors at sub-antipsychotic doses (amisulpride). The number of other drugs and factors (including poor recall of the experience due to bad overall memory) make my results lacking in great amounts of scientific credibility, but it did seem to extend the clean mood-lifting & motivational effects (attributable largely to dopamine) thereby reducing the need to re-dose and up the jitteriness/agitation factor, and reduce the crash. That was for both stimulants (Ritalin and Dexedrine). Another point worth noting is that tolerance very well may not form to the augmenting synergy of amisulpride + stimulant, since stimulant pushes dopamine up -> amisulpride exerts enough of a blocking effect to reduce autoreceptor activation to levels indicative of natural synaptic dopamine levels, not the real levels -> no homeostatis required.

Amisulpride is quite bad for certain antipsychotic side effects though, so I guess whether it's worth the risk depends on if this is a clever pharmacological trick, or something too mild to warrant adding another drug to one's regimen.


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Amisulpride is the only neuroleptic I would like to try - I know some people who gets benefits from it in social anxiety (only in doses 50-100). What about upregulation this autoreceptors with antagonism? Some people gets quite fast tolerance to it.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

Bromantane (doping agent) is claimed to enhance dopamine transmission without depletion of dopamine. It increases the expression of gene, coding tyrosine-hidroxilase, thus boosting dopamine synthesis. It is able to suppress synthesis of GABA-transporter GAT-3, so inhibiting GABA uptake. May be interesting as addition to standart stimulants.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

broflovski said:


> Bromantane (doping agent) is claimed to enhance dopamine transmission without depletion of dopamine. It increases the expression of gene, coding tyrosine-hidroxilase, thus boosting dopamine synthesis. It is able to suppress synthesis of GABA-transporter GAT-3, so inhibiting GABA uptake. May be interesting as addition to standart stimulants.


Very interesting! I'd love to know more about this one.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

What have you decided to do? Did you find a solution?


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

There is not much info of it in English, incomplete page in Wiki, and some report on Bluelight) Scientific articles concentrate mostly on its conventional monoamine uptake inhibiting properties, while manufacturer emphasizes the "innovative" mechanism which i mentioned above. (Maybe something like Valdoxan, that is promoted as novel melatoninergic, but works mostly through 5HT2c antagonism).
In Russia Bromantane is sold as OTC "Ladasten". They have no english version of the site but the picture may say something.
I had some positive experience with it, but our "academician" web-community is sceptical. I'll try to find and translate some reliable information concerning it, unfortunately i'm not good in english)


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

Bromantane belongs to the same class of adamantane derivatives as memantine and amantadine (anti-parkinsonic with possible antidepressant action). As for bromantane itself, it is indicated mostly for asthenia and as an anxiolytic.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

mikoy said:


> heroin what antidepressant you are taking?


My meds are for depression, not anxiety.

I'm on 60mg of Duloxetine (SNRI), 300mg of Bupropion (NDRI), 37.5 mg of Tianeptine (SSRE), and 100mg of Levosulpiride (anti-psychotic) a day right now.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

heroin said:


> My meds are for depression, not anxiety.
> 
> I'm on 60mg of Duloxetine (SNRI), 300mg of Bupropion (NDRI), 37.5 mg of Tianeptine (SSRE), and 100mg of Levosulpiride (anti-psychotic) a day right now.


What do you think about mixing Tianeptine with SSRI/SNRI? They're supposed to cancel each other in respect of serotonin levels (it's shown for fluoxetine in some research). Though Tianeptine's dopaminergic and neuroplasticity effect is serotonin-independent.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Isn't taking tianeptine with an SRI kind of cancelling one another out?


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

euphoria said:


> Isn't taking tianeptine with an SRI kind of cancelling one another other out?


Seems like it. But I'm not the psychiatrist.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

euphoria said:


> Isn't taking tianeptine with an SRI kind of cancelling one another out?


As I can judge tianeptine may cancel SRI effect, but the opposite is not correct. Acute mesolimbic dopaminergic action of tianeptine is serotonin-independent, so as it's effect on neuroplasticity. It may have not long-term influence on serotonin levels at all. And i found some abuse report about mixing fluoxetine (or fluvoxamine) and tianeptine in order to prolong tianeptine's effect via P450 3A4 inhibition. We do not know much about tianeptine's pharmacokinetics. It also has putative opioid properties (through enkephalinase inhibition - this anecdotal data is widely discussed here in Russia, but i saw no proof).


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