# Best confidence increasing, acute acting psychostimulant?



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

After having little success from Nardil after 58 days, I've since terminated treatment altogether one week ago. I'm experiencing absolutely no ill-effects due to quitting cold-turkey either, and phenelzine's adverse effects are rapidly wearing off.

Since I've been off Nardil I've felt more sociable since I began taking it. I hope this effect lasts not only for the obvious reasons, but also because I could be completely cured of social phobia by just taking an immediate-release CNS stimulant a few times per week.

I want something that will mostly just give me an acute spike in confidence and fortitude to enter a typical daily social occasion (ie. job, school). I'm cool after I'm there for a few minutes, but my persistent avoidance is something that antidepressants can't fix.

So which should I go for - Ritalin or Adderall? That is, if I'm unable to acquire Dexedrine IR.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

For me, Adderall gave the confidence increase that left me practically welcoming (even seeking!) criticism from others for no other reason than to demonstrate to myself how easily I could brush it off and move on unscathed. However, amphetamines are apparently neurotoxic in the long run, so Ritalin would probably be a better choice. Ritalin gave me a confidence boost, but it wasn't like Adderall. It was more like "OK, I'm here, let's do this! ROCK THEIR WORLD! ROCK THEIR WORLDDD!"









lol. Ritalin also tended to make me a little more aggressive than usual, but to an onlooker, I probably didn't appear any different while on it.

And before I clicked this thread, I was literally in the middle of reading about the brain's motivation centers (i.e. possible methods or techniques to reinforce a behavior that I need to do but don't want to do [exercising, ugh]). It's sad that I am seeking chemical means to motivate myself, but hey, anhedonia sucks and nothing matters, so chemistry is all I've got left!


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

sorry to say nardil didn't work for you. but you could still try marplan(?) or parnate which is in the MAOI family.


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## Omnium11 (Feb 11, 2009)

Definitely adderall. Ritalin is crap in comparison. Be careful with amphetamine induced confidence though it eventually turns into paranoia and anxiety in my experience with meth. Then again I was def abusing it not using it for medication purposes. But yeah you definitely do feel like god when you are on it. 

I find Ritalin to be much weaker and a more edgy / anxious feeling.


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## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

I've used 30 mg of two amphetamines twice to help cope in social situations, Focalin (essentially a more potent version of Ritalin) and IR Adderall. Both felt exactly the same...definitely more outgoing, but only experiencing euphoria during the fast come up. But yeah, I couldn't tell the difference. Since you said you only need it briefly, you might one to go whichever has the shortest half-life, as it may affect your sleep and/or your eating habits (if you're an ectomorph who's into bodybuilding, like me, you're appetite is something you want to be insatiable).


If for whatever reason you can't acquire an amphetamine, try to get a painkiller such as VICODIN! Vicodin has undoubtedly been the best drug I've ever taken for SA. It's the only drug that gave me euphoria while allowing me to remain completely sensible (i.e. - NOT EMBARRASSING MYSELF UNABASHEDLY), and the dose required for me to achieve this is not ridiculous...just 20 mg of hydro - that's right, kids, that's just four 5/500 Vicodin pills that Dad left in his medicine cabinet after knee surgery! Also, it's not something that you will get hooked on. Becoming addicted to pain killers is no easy task...it takes some work. Using them like Xanax on an as needed basis, but not daily, would not get you addicted - though even if it did, opiate withdrawal is a stroll down the pier on a cool summer night compared to benzo or amphetamine withdrawal...just a thought. 

Also, you could give yourself an alcohol enema - STOP! Now I'm just getting crazy...time to leave *poof*

*poof, reappears* P.S. Just curious, were you able to ejaculate on Nardil?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

korey said:


> For me, Adderall gave the confidence increase that left me practically welcoming (even seeking!) criticism from others for no other reason than to demonstrate to myself how easily I could brush it off and move on unscathed.


Awesome! That kind of feeling is what I'm looking for.



> ...However, amphetamines are apparently neurotoxic in the long run, so Ritalin would probably be a better choice.


I agree, Ritalin would be the more sensible choice for avoiding neurotoxicity.



jjyiss said:


> sorry to say nardil didn't work for you. but you could still try marplan(?) or parnate which is in the MAOI family.


I don't think I'll ever try an unselective MAOI again. I had random and spontaneous hypertensive episodes on Nardil, and I no longer desire a 24/7 treatment - just either a stimulant (+ benzo?) and/or GHB used prn.



Omnium11 said:


> Definitely adderall. Ritalin is crap in comparison. Be careful with amphetamine induced confidence though it eventually turns into paranoia and anxiety in my experience with meth. Then again I was def abusing it not using it for medication purposes. But yeah you definitely do feel like god when you are on it.


I have an irrational fear of the cardiovascular effects of speed though, so I'd want to use it as less often as possible. I don't think I'd at all be able to psychologically tolerate high dose/consistent dosing of amphetamine without taking clonazepam concomitantly.



> I find Ritalin to be much weaker and a more edgy / anxious feeling.


Eek. I hope I don't have a panic attack from trying my first stimulant. :afr



soaringfalcon11 said:


> I've used 30 mg of two amphetamines twice to help cope in social situations, Focalin (essentially a more potent version of Ritalin) and IR Adderall. Both felt exactly the same...definitely more outgoing, but only experiencing euphoria during the fast come up. But yeah, I couldn't tell the difference. Since you said you only need it briefly, you might one to go whichever has the shortest half-life, as it may affect your sleep and/or your eating habits (if you're an ectomorph who's into bodybuilding, like me, you're appetite is something you want to be insatiable).


I only care about efficacy, and from what you described both sound great. If insomnia becomes a problem then I'll have clonazepam at hand.



> If for whatever reason you can't acquire an amphetamine, try to get a painkiller such as VICODIN! Vicodin has undoubtedly been the best drug I've ever taken for SA. It's the only drug that gave me euphoria while allowing me to remain completely sensible (i.e. - NOT EMBARRASSING MYSELF UNABASHEDLY), and the dose required for me to achieve this is not ridiculous...just 20 mg of hydro - that's right, kids, that's just four 5/500 Vicodin pills that Dad left in his medicine cabinet after knee surgery! Also, it's not something that you will get hooked on. Becoming addicted to pain killers is no easy task...it takes some work. Using them like Xanax on an as needed basis, but not daily, would not get you addicted - though even if it did, opiate withdrawal is a stroll down the pier on a cool summer night compared to benzo or amphetamine withdrawal...just a thought.


I love the euphoric recreational effects of hydrocodone. It's great at 30mg without a tolerance. It has no use medicinally for me though, as I never felt any confidence inflation from it.



> P.S. Just curious, were you able to ejaculate on Nardil?


After several hours of persistent effort it was possible, but didn't even seem worth it once I was practically numb and no longer sexually aroused.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

For the best confidence-increasing psychostimulant, I would probably nominate phenmetrazine or desoxypipradrol.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

rocknroll714 said:


> Although your psychiatrist may be apprehensive about combining selegiline and amphetamine or methamphetamine, I'm sure if you provided him with references showing that it's fully safe and if you went into detail about your concerns regarding the neurotoxcity and how selegiline completely blocks it, he just might go for it.


My last three psychiatrists were all extremely offended when I offered references for some of my claims (i.e. psychostimulants are effective for depression). I miss my first psychiatrist. :cry


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

adderall is better for me. though you rapidly gain tolerance if your using it as an antidepressant. I mean rapidly, it lasts like one or two days. Ive never taken that much though. Only 5- 10mg a day. I think its a good augmenter drug for sure.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:


> My last three psychiatrists were all extremely offended when I offered references for some of my claims (i.e. psychostimulants are effective for depression).


Any psychiatrist who is even marginally competent knows that stimulants have an anti-depressant effect. Did somebody forget to tell them that Ritalin was originally used to treat depression? That was before they found that if you give it to hyper little Billy he will sit down, shut up, and get an A+ on his tests.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> Any psychiatrist who is even marginally competent knows that stimulants have an anti-depressant effect. Did somebody forget to tell them that Ritalin was originally used to treat depression? That was before they found that if you give it to hyper little Billy he will sit down, shut up, and get an A+ on his tests.


They were all well aware of the positive effects of stimulants. They were just unwilling to prescribe them for depression. I think the use of stimulants for depression has a worse connotation than Valium. I read something not too long ago in a Google ebook, and it said that in the decades before the advent of the DEA, amphetamines were pretty much commonplace all across the US. Amphetamines were the go-to meds for pretty much any hint of depression or any excess weight - not just severe, treatment-resistant depression and morbid obesity as they're sometimes used for today. Take a look at Andy Warhol's choice weight loss drug, Obetrol. No wonder Warhol was so creative! Because of doctors' indiscretion about prescribing amphetamines back then, they're scared sh!tless at the very mention of amphetamines today (much like how Valium was given to everyone in the 60s before its potential for addiction came to light). I realize that there is a third party observer (the DEA) in the doctor-patient relationship, but when doctors start telling their patients that they're out of options before even considering using controlled medication, it angers me to no end. My current psychiatrist tried to tell me last Friday that I was "tying his hands" regarding my treatment because I told him that I'm against the use of antipsychotics in non-psychotic patients. He was trying to peddle Geodon off on me (for depression and anxiety, no less! He even said so himself!). He is aware of my success on Ritalin and Adderall in the past, but he seems to be ignoring that.

Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm*

* unless the only viable treatment is a controlled substance. In which case, let them suffer.

:doh


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

meh, I just use intensive exercise as my natural high


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

korey said:


> He was trying to peddle Geodon off on me (for depression and anxiety, no less! He even said so himself!). He is aware of my success on Ritalin and Adderall in the past, but he seems to be ignoring that.


Patient: I had really good success in the past with stimulants.
Doctor: Well, I think I'll prescribe you the opposite - a neuroleptic.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Medline said:


> Patient: I had really good success in the past with stimulants.
> Doctor: Well, I think I'll prescribe you the opposite - a neuroleptic.


Yeah, that's pretty much how it went. I'm going to mention stimulants and their effectiveness once more, and if he doesn't acquiesce, then I'm pretty much done with this wishy-washy outpatient program.


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