# Nardil success!



## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

I thought I'd share my experience with Nardil as it may tempt others into trying it.

I suffered from debilitating social anxiety and depression for years, I've had social anxiety for the majority of my life, but it wasn't until my late teens that it really became severe. I couldn't be around people without getting very shaky, sweaty, on edge and having continuous thoughts that were centered on how others perceived me. Talking to strangers would get me into a very panicky state of mind and body, keeping eye contact was painful. I was always wondering if i was staring at the right place, or if i was looking too long, or even if my anxiety could be seen in my face. Thus i was not able to do much in this world; no job, no friends and no relatives. I was completely isolated with my pathetic self which could do nothing but obsess about my failures. And even doing simple things like grocery shopping made me feel very bad, which i sometimes avoided since just looking at the cashier made me uncomfortable. No human should live like this and of course there were often suicidal thoughts that came and went, and I also went down the route of abusing many illicit drugs.

I had for a long time a very negative view on medications and psychologists/psychiatrists which made me try to handle my problems by myself. But since it was nowhere near working I mustered up the courage of seeking help. I was as many others started on SSRIs/SNRIs/Betablockers then TCAs. But none of these medications gave me any positive effects at all. Even CBT was useless and i became more and more desperate. I researched various supplements, vitamins, and popped various pills one after another. No relief, no hope, only despair.

One day i came into contact with irreversible MAOIs (Nardil/Parnate) due to this thing called the internet. And i spent probably hundreds of hours reading about them on various web-pages and literature. I decided for myself that even if it's the last thing i do in my life, I'm not going to stop until I've gotten my hands on one of them. Since these medications are long forgotten relics of the past the path to getting it wasn't easy, but one day i managed to convince a pdoc to start me on it.

Nardil (_Phenelzine_) took about 8 weeks before i noticed any positive effects, but god what a difference it made! It completely turned my life and now when I think back at all the things I've gone through due to anxiety I can only laugh about it. Now I'm extremely social, and the thing I love the most in life is actually talking to other people. It's such joy just to be at great peace while looking at people's faces when words are coming out of my mouth. Flirting with women is now a passion. I've also become a great listener, whereas before i was too busy watching my own behavior and could thus never remember a single word the other person said. I've lost most inhibitions to the point that I'm able to say and do anything out in public.

I'm sure there's loads of other people out there in a similar situation that I've been. Never stop trying to get better; where there's a will, there's a way.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

But pretty much everything in life always comes with its negative aspects as well, and MAOIs are no exception.

The first few weeks i had quite a resume of side effects; Dizziness, blurry vision, sedation, minor weight gain, diarrhea, constipation, urinary retention, tremors, bloating, gas, dry mouth, increased appetite, hypotension, orthostatic hypotension, paresthesia, sweating and sexual dysfunction. Perhaps a few more, but i can't remember them.

Most of them have gone away, but those that remain are constipation, bloating, minor tremors and increased appetite. Also low blood pressure if i take too high a dose.

But I'd go through any side effects to be able to feel and be that person I am today. Life feels wonderful!

*Constipation*: can be combated by eating lots of fiber or by taking laxatives. A personal favorite is Dulcolax (_Bisacodyl_), although it should only be used once a week so one does not get permanent bowel problems. Movicol (_polyethylene glycol_) can be taken daily, but is far from as powerful.

*Gas: *Farting in the wrong direction while on Nardil can killing livings organisms, it's probably the worst smell I've ever felt, but one does get used to it. Perhaps one might be able to get a job at Anticimex; just go into random house, fart, everything dead! Gas can also be lessened by taking OTC pills such as _dimethicone or simethicone._

*Urinary retention*: This does lessen a lot with time, but in the beginning it can be very troublesome. Peeing while squatting helped me a lot. Taking a diuretic also does wonders, such as Lasix (_Furosemide)_ plus _Bethanechol_.

*Sedation: *was also extremely difficult the first two months, I'd fall asleep and take a afternoon nap very often, or when i sat on a chair I'd dose off. But this has totally disappeared. Coffeine can help a little bit, or by taking some kind of psychostimultant or Modafinil. Low doses of Wellbutrin has also shown to be effective. This completely disappeared with time.

*Low blood-pressure: *This was one of the worst offenders at the early stages. My blood pressure even got so low that i fainted a couple of times and hit my head on various stuff. But this also does get a lot better, there's also blood pressure increasing medications that can be taken such as _Midodrine_.

*Sexual dysfunction: *This became apparent after one week of Nardil use, and now it takes forever to ejaculate, but it is possible. My libido has however gotten a lot higher, and the ladies love it. I actually love this side effect as it makes me last so long. But it can be combated with the use of Wellbutrin (Bupropion) or Periactin (_Cyproheptadine)_ or various stimulants.

*Weight gain*: This is another prominent problem with Nardil, it makes you eat more, and everything sweet tastes like a piece of heaven. Actually most food tastes a lot better. Simply lowering calorie intake and doing regular exercise do help a lot, or lowering one's daily dose of Nardil.

*The diet: *Taking a MAOI makes one very sensitive to tyramine, which can be found in some types of food. It is very individual how someone reacts to tyramine while using Nardil; some people can eat anything they want without raising an eyebrow. Other people can get a stroke from eating aged cheese or spoiled meat. I believe almost every death the past 40 years (haven't been that many) have happened exclusively from eating a large amount of aged cheese. Personally the only things i avoid is aged cheese and old food of all types.

Dr Ken Gillman has the best diet list I've ever seen; http://_psychotropical_.com/pdfs/maois_diet_full.pdf

That's all i can think of for now. If you feel you've had enough of suffering due to depression and anxiety, then I'd recommend trying Parnate (_Tranylcypromine_) or Nardil (_Phenelzine_), it might very well be the best decision you've ever made in your life! :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Yet another satisfied nardil customer!

I could have wrote that myself. As you know, nardil changed my life in the same way it did for you. I also ended up moving across the other side of the world to a country I had never been to before. Nardil gives you super powers I tell you!

You didn't get any insomnia? wow, you must be the only one.

What dose are you on again?


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## MoonlitMadness (Mar 11, 2013)

Is this available in the UK?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

shy-one said:


> Yet another satisfied nardil customer!
> 
> I could have wrote that myself. As you know, nardil changed my life in the same way it did for you. I also ended up moving across the other side of the world to a country I had never been to before. Nardil gives you super powers I tell you!
> 
> ...


Oh I've been on everything between 60mg - 210mg. Normally i try to keep it at 75mg.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

MoonlitMadness said:


> Is this available in the UK?


Yes, both Parnate and Nardil is available in the UK.


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## tieffers (Jan 26, 2013)

Very happy for you! It's been really encouraging reading all the MAOI success stories. Thanks for sharing.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Chopsuey, is this still your first Nardil trial, or have you ever discontinued in the past? This is my second (or third) Nardil Trial. I've been on Nardil for 2 weeks and 1 day now on 45mg, and I'm still waiting for that orthostatic hypotention and my Nardil to kick in.

My first trial was almost 2 months and it worked for a while, but then I had a bit of a shipping mishap and I ran out of the stuff before the next batch arrived. It kicked in in that trial, and it really was super great. Now I have about 705 15mg pills.

My almost second trial was just 3 days on 15mg. I just had to stop it due to circumstances. Whatever.

So, yea. I'm a bit worried that my third trial won't work as well as my first one. A lot of people on this thing called the internet (you've probably never heard of it) have said this sort of thing happens on various forums like a mantra. Would you know if it could actually happen?

Also, are you taking anything with it?

I take 1/2 tsp of black pepper (we don't have Bioperine here, but I want piperine with my Nardil)
1800mg of Omega 3 (6 Capsules)
Multivitamins (it's the multi-est)
800 UI of D3
5g of fiber
225mg of iodine
and every now and then, about 1/10th of a 100mg vitamin b6 pill

Oh yea, and 3.6g of Piracetam, although I'm working on switching to Noopept cause it's suppose to be better and it's offensively cheap


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Would you know if it could actually happen?
> Also, are you taking anything with it?


It's my first Nardil trial, and it can take a very long time until it kicks in, so stick with it. Also i would recommend to increase dosage until you get orthostatic hypotension, as it's an indicator you've reached a good dosage. Orthostatic hypotension will be shown within 2-3 days. So no need to wait too long at a particular dosage.

I don't really believe that restarting Nardil makes a difference, if it worked once, then it will work again.

It should work without any add-ons, drop everything you're certain isn't useful for you.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I just started on 45mg and still have 2 long weeks till I plan on going up to 60mg. and as for the supplements, err.. I can't think of any I want to drop, although, I end up taking 9 pills in the morning, 8 in the afternoon, and 4 at night. holy shyt. I can make it 8/7/3 if I switch to pharmaceutical fish oil, and 8/6/3 when I get my Noopept. I haven't even added augmentations!

Can taking all this stuff be bad for my liver or something?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> I just started on 45mg and still have 2 long weeks till I plan on going up to 60mg. and as for the supplements, err.. I can't think of any I want to drop, although, I end up taking 9 pills in the morning, 8 in the afternoon, and 4 at night. holy shyt. I can make it 8/7/3 if I switch to pharmaceutical fish oil, and 8/6/3 when I get my Noopept. I haven't even added augmentations!
> 
> Can taking all this stuff be bad for my liver or something?


None of the things you take seem to be dangerous for the liver except Piracetam.

Nardil alone can in some people rarely be toxic for the liver, so it's important that you do blood tests every three months to see if your liver values have changed.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I believe fish oil can actually boost the effects of Nardil.

When coming off earlier this year I was taking fish oil and even when I was down to my last tablet I felt pretty damn good. Fish oil is supposed to also increase dopamine.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

I tried fish oil for a month, and there was no difference at all.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Well if you tapered down to 15mg within 2 weeks, like I did, you probably just felt good because your monoamine oxidase enzymes were still inhibited from your dose 2 weeks ago, cause they were irreversibly inhibited and it takes about 2 weeks to get new ones.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> I tried fish oil for a month, and there was no difference at all.


It's still a great supplement. Not to mention it gives you rancid fish breath to help shift the focus from your horrific Nardil farts.

Not that I have either. I'm special.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Well if you went tapered down to 15mg within 2 weeks, like I did, you probably just felt good because your monoamine oxidase enzymes were still inhibited from your dose 2 weeks ago, cause they were irreversibly inhibited and it takes about 2 weeks to get new ones.


The thing with Nardil is that it's also a release agent of the three major NTs shortly after dosage, not to mention it also increase GABA for 24 hours after dosage. So the MAO inhibition is far from the only important aspect.

I do sometimes try supplements, and if i don't see any improvement or change within a month, then i drop it. There's really no need to keep using something that isn't working despite the fact that it may have helped someone else.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Man I find it depressing when other people get better lol


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Hey ChopSuey? How do you manage your maintenance dose? Do you mix it up to help reduce tolerance? If you do, please tell me how, I also wanna generally be around 75-90mg


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Everyone with depression/anxiety should try nardil at least once in their life. If not, then you're seriously missing out. 

My only regret is that I didn't try it earlier, could have given myself 10 extra years of a happy life without anxiety. Just glad I tried it when I did, or I probably wouldn't even be alive today.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

shy-one said:


> Everyone with depression/anxiety should try nardil at least once in their life. If not, then you're seriously missing out.
> 
> My only regret is that I didn't try it earlier, could have given myself 10 extra years of a happy life without anxiety. Just glad I tried it when I did, or I probably wouldn't even be alive today.


what if one is stabilised on another medication or cocktail? it hardly would seem that that individual would be missing out on anything by not trialing nardil.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Hey ChopSuey? How do you manage your maintenance dose? Do you mix it up to help reduce tolerance? If you do, please tell me how, I also wanna generally be around 75-90mg


I have only noticed minor tolerance issues. But i try to generally be on a low dose 0-30mg for 2-3 days every now and then. Not very often.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

basuraeuropea said:


> what if one is stabilised on another medication or cocktail? it hardly would seem that that individual would be missing out on anything by not trialing nardil.


If someone can get the same level of benefit as nardil from a cocktail of SSRI's etc then they are very very lucky. However very few people get any benefit at all from newer medications, and if they do then it isn't usually as powerful as nardil.

Nardil is simply the most powerful antidepressant ever invented for depression and anxiety. Nothing else comes close for the majority of people.

Nardil is life changing stuff, I would even go as far as to call it a miracle.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

You guys think your Nardil farts are bad, man I have been eating lots of oatmeal these days and this stuff due to its high fiber content makes me fart like king bowser himself. The smell is just unbelievable. It gets me every time. And I fart all freaking day. I know I should stop eating it but I have no woman to impress right now. Though yah you'd think i'd get used to the smell but it is atrocious every single time. You walk into my computer room and the atmosphere in here is way different than the rest of the house due to the accumulation of fart. 

Anyways, Nardil doesn't give you dry mouth?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

shy-one said:


> If someone can get the same level of benefit as nardil from a cocktail of SSRI's etc then they are very very lucky. However very few people get any benefit at all from newer medications, and if they do then it isn't usually as powerful as nardil.
> 
> Nardil is simply the most powerful antidepressant ever invented for depression and anxiety. Nothing else comes close for the majority of people.
> 
> Nardil is life changing stuff, I would even go as far as to call it a miracle.


It's not. It's the most powerful if anxiety is your main problem and depression is secondary. In fact, Nardil seems to make anhedonia much worse for people. And I research this a lot, it is not that great for depression, even Parnate is much better in that regard.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

^ yeah that's my experience. It's never treated my depression as well as other meds have but is great for my social phobia.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

yeah, i mean, we all know that reaction to psychotropics is highly idiosyncratic so stating conclusively that nardil is the best of the best is a bit lofty. 

i'm stabilised and happily so. i also happen to not be taking nardil.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Anyways, Nardil doesn't give you dry mouth?


The first weeks i had small issues with dry mouth, i was constantly worrying about it, that it would get worse and I'd eventually have meth mouth. But it disappeared. And now I do try to take care of my mouth in the best possible way, cause I'm probably gonna be needing them a long time.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

I thought I'd compile a list of various Nardil studies. (Can never get enough of those huh?)

*Nardil vs SAD*

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08039480310002110

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12607230?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20194829

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12950437

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12888407

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9862558

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12607230

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15538306

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10604081

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22665997

*Nardil vs Parnate; **severe antidepressant-refractory depression*

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine-compared.htm

*Nardil is neuroprotective
*
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine-protect.htm

http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000046/Default.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23410524

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22503968

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22039878

*MAOI + **Tobacco smoking = Wonderful synergy*

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/nicotine-mao.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22549121

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17912044


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## maninabox (Aug 23, 2012)

Nardil has been good for me, too. However, I recently upped my dose, and it's impossible to orgasm no matter how hard I try =/. Hopefully this goes away soon.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Out of curiousity, what brand of Nardil are you taking ChopSuey? I've seen differences in opinion on the efficacy of Pfizer/Greenstone vs. Gavis, with the slight majority seeming to prefer Gavis

I myself have just started on the Greenstone generic (which supposedly has the same active & inactive ingredients as the Pfizer version, and people say Gavis is closer to the original "holy grail" pre-2003 formula change Nardil), so just wanted to know if I should maybe request a generic switch to Gavis if that's the one you take, after reading your glowing review lol.


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## tieffers (Jan 26, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> It's not. It's the most powerful if anxiety is your main problem and depression is secondary. In fact, Nardil seems to make anhedonia much worse for people. And I research this a lot, it is not that great for depression, even Parnate is much better in that regard.


Can Parnate cause or exacerbate anhedonia as well? I'm pretty worried about that and also afraid of getting emotionally blunted or numb like I feel on an SSRI. :|


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## arkwelder (May 10, 2010)

tieffers said:


> Can Parnate cause or exacerbate anhedonia as well? I'm pretty worried about that and also afraid of getting emotionally blunted or numb like I feel on an SSRI. :|


I have not researched this so I am not going to try to challenge kehcorpz's claims outright, but I have been on Nardil and it did not cause Anhedonia at all. Quite the opposite actually. In fact, I am somewhat shocked to to hear anyone make this claim. I was on Nardil for three years, and this runs counter to my experience.

My opinion is that Nardil is the best all-in-one drug because it is both GABAergic and dopaminergic (and serotonergic, for that matter). My theory is that the dopaminergic effects outlast the GABAergic ones however.

My advice for anyone starting out on this AD would be to begin at a low dose and titrate slowly. Pdocs and GPs don't seem to appreciate how powerful this drug is. The side affects are insane, and it blows any SSRI out of the water. I was never able to comfortably go past 45mg, to be honest, so don't feel obliged to push yourself to 60mg or 75mg _just bcuz_.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

hworth said:


> Out of curiousity, what brand of Nardil are you taking ChopSuey? I've seen differences in opinion on the efficacy of Pfizer/Greenstone vs. Gavis, with the slight majority seeming to prefer Gavis
> 
> I myself have just started on the Greenstone generic (which supposedly has the same active & inactive ingredients as the Pfizer version, and people say Gavis is closer to the original "holy grail" pre-2003 formula change Nardil), so just wanted to know if I should maybe request a generic switch to Gavis if that's the one you take, after reading your glowing review lol.


I take Archimedes Nardil (UK). I've however heard some rumors that Gavis Nardil is supposed to be good. But I'm not sure i believe the 2003 Nardil craze; that it became much worse after the re-formulation. All versions should have more or less the same efficacy.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

arkwelder said:


> I was never able to comfortably go past 45mg, to be honest, so don't feel obliged to push yourself to 60mg or 75mg _just bcuz_.


It's very individual how one's body handles these chemicals, i can be on 150mg without getting too much side effects, others stop abruptly because they can't handle the negative effects at 45mg.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

arkwelder said:


> I have not researched this so I am not going to try to challenge kehcorpz's claims outright, but I have been on Nardil and it did not cause Anhedonia at all. Quite the opposite actually. In fact, I am somewhat shocked to to hear anyone make this claim. I was on Nardil for three years, and this runs counter to my experience.
> 
> My opinion is that Nardil is the best all-in-one drug because it is both GABAergic and dopaminergic (and serotonergic, for that matter). My theory is that the dopaminergic effects outlast the GABAergic ones however.
> 
> My advice for anyone starting out on this AD would be to begin at a low dose and titrate slowly. Pdocs and GPs don't seem to appreciate how powerful this drug is. The side affects are insane, and it blows any SSRI out of the water. I was never able to comfortably go past 45mg, to be honest, so don't feel obliged to push yourself to 60mg or 75mg _just bcuz_.


My research was based on anecdotal reports from places like psycho-babble where people were complaining of anhedonia/apathy on it. It seems though with further digging it may be a small subset of people. It may even be that if they waited it out it would have gone away. I'm actually considering going on Nardil if Clomipramine doesn't cut it in the next 2 weeks. I'm just researching it further now and want to know everything possible before I make the dive. I'm also need to prep myself for the conversation with my doctor. Part of that convo will be convincing her to let me stay on mirtazapine for sleep just in case Nardil causes insomnia.

To those who have taken it, did you get medical bracelets? Do pharmacies have them typically?

Oh and how were cognitive functions and attention/focus?


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> My research was based on anecdotal reports from places like psycho-babble where people were complaining of anhedonia/apathy on it. It seems though with further digging it may be a small subset of people. It may even be that if they waited it out it would have gone away. I'm actually considering going on Nardil if Clomipramine doesn't cut it in the next 2 weeks. I'm just researching it further now and want to know everything possible before I make the dive. I'm also need to prep myself for the conversation with my doctor. Part of that convo will be convincing her to let me stay on mirtazapine for sleep just in case Nardil causes insomnia.
> 
> To those who have taken it, did you get medical bracelets? Do pharmacies have them typically?
> 
> Oh and how were cognitive functions and attention/focus?


you're beginning to catch up to me in that you'll have tried nearly every psychotropic available in the next, um, two months? perhaps three!


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> To those who have taken it, did you get medical bracelets? Do pharmacies have them typically?
> 
> Oh and how were cognitive functions and attention/focus?


Bracelet; nope.
Pharmacies; Usually no.
Cognitive; short-term memory might be a little worse, barely noticeable.
Attention/focus; no difference.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> you're beginning to catch up to me in that you'll have tried nearly every psychotropic available in the next, um, two months? perhaps three!


Hah we shall see. I'm hoping the MAOis are my final step. I mean these are the ones that work out most for treatment resistant depression.



ChopSuey said:


> Bracelet; nope.
> Pharmacies; Usually no.
> Cognitive; short-term memory might be a little worse, barely noticeable.
> Attention/focus; no difference.


Damn, one thing clomipramine has been definitely helping with is attention/focus. Might be the NRI component. If anything I could always add a tca to the maoi that focuses on norepinephrine as it seems the combo is safe. At least according to Dr. Ken Gillman.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Hah we shall see. I'm hoping the MAOis are my final step. I mean these are the ones that work out most for treatment resistant depression.


yeah, i'm totally done with my core cocktail and am totally not making any changes. i'm just adding things here and there to offset lyrica/luvox side effects. i absolutely cannot do what you're doing, though, unfortunately. i wish i could, but i've almost exclusively only been able to augment rather than completely touch my core team of meds.

the maoi might just do it for you - is it easy to get prescribed in canada? it's not easy to get prescribed in spain?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> yeah, i'm totally done with my core cocktail and am totally not making any changes. i'm just adding things here and there to offset lyrica/luvox side effects. i absolutely cannot do what you're doing, though, unfortunately. i wish i could, but i've almost exclusively only been able to augment rather than completely touch my core team of meds.
> 
> the maoi might just do it for you - is it easy to get prescribed in canada? it's not easy to get prescribed in spain?


I honestly don't know. I never threw it at my doctor. You think maybe I should stay on clomipramine until I see her? I was going to stop it today so that I can start flushing the drug out. If she doesn't prescribe it though I don't know what I'll do. My argument will be that the clomipramine is actually more dangerous because it can cause heart issues as well as be overdosed much easier.

It would annoy me because intelligent guys like us should be able to go on these drugs without doctors worrying. It's the idiots out there who think they are invincible that are the problems.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I honestly don't know. I never threw it at my doctor. You think maybe I should stay on clomipramine until I see her? I was going to stop it today so that I can start flushing the drug out. If she doesn't prescribe it though I don't know what I'll do. My argument will be that the clomipramine is actually more dangerous because it can cause heart issues as well as be overdosed much easier.
> 
> It would annoy me because intelligent guys like us should be able to go on these drugs without doctors worrying. It's the idiots out there who think they are invincible that are the problems.


i think you should probably continue the clomipramine until the physician's appointment in the event that she doesn't prescribe the maoi.

i mean, you do have justifiable reasons for wishing to stop the medication, but as always one has to weigh the risk to benefit ratio and i don't know how far the drug is leaning in either direction for you. what's the efficacy like? if the efficacy is particularly poor, then, sure, stop the medication as it isn't doing much anyhow (if this is the case).


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> i think you should probably continue the clomipramine until the physician's appointment in the event that she doesn't prescribe the maoi.
> 
> i mean, you do have justifiable reasons for wishing to stop the medication, but as always one has to weigh the risk to benefit ratio and i don't know how far the drug is leaning in either direction for you. what's the efficacy like? if the efficacy is particularly poor, then, sure, stop the medication as it isn't doing much anyhow (if this is the case).


I've had some "OK" days where i'm not as depressed, but for the most part I've remained depressed and anhedonia is horrible. My focus/attention has definitely improved though. I've been on 150mg for 2 weeks now. 2 weeks on lower doses prior to that.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I've had some "OK" days where i'm not as depressed, but for the most part I've remained depressed and anhedonia is horrible. My focus/attention has definitely improved though. I've been on 150mg for 2 weeks now. 2 weeks on lower doses prior to that.


well, it's doing something, although it may or may not be the right medication for you - at least as a monotherapy.

had your physician mentioned any augmentation strategies prior in the event that the tca isn't efficacious enough alone?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> well, it's doing something, although it may or may not be the right medication for you - at least as a monotherapy.
> 
> had your physician mentioned any augmentation strategies prior in the event that the tca isn't efficacious enough alone?


Nah other than clonidine. I thought about adding lamictal, but I mean I would expect to at least notice something by now for the depression part. Even something like Zoloft is able to show some signs of working within a 2 week period.

I can continue taking it till I see her just in case but my only problem is if she tells me I have to titrate the dose downwards which will waste even more time. I'm the type of person that will go cold turkey as it's not 'truly' cold turkey given that it's in your blood for another week or two.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Nah other than clonidine. I thought about adding lamictal, but I mean I would expect to at least notice something by now for the depression part. Even something like Zoloft is able to show some signs of working within a 2 week period.
> 
> I can continue taking it till I see her just in case but my only problem is if she tells me I have to titrate the dose downwards which will waste even more time. I'm the type of person that will go cold turkey as it's not 'truly' cold turkey given that it's in your blood for another week or two.


lamictal may be good for depression, although probably not at all for anhedonia.

just wrote you on clonidine.

if she says that you are able to trial nardil, tell her that you have stopped the tca even if you haven't just to get the prescription and then start some two weeks later. don't tell her what's going on with the tca until she has committed (or not) to the maoi. this may or may not work because she may immediately go to what your experiences are with the tca. hm.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> lamictal may be good for depression, although probably not at all for anhedonia.
> 
> just wrote you on clonidine.
> 
> if she says that you are able to trial nardil, tell her that you have stopped the tca even if you haven't just to get the prescription and then start some two weeks later. don't tell her what's going on with the tca until she has committed (or not) to the maoi. this may or may not work because she may immediately go to what your experiences are with the tca. hm.


Yah I pm'ed you what my plan would be if I went through with it hehe.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Its a good sign that she has trialled a TCA 
I'm thinking of giving Nardil a shot 2 but really not keen on the weight gain. 

kehcorpz you ever thought of trying a stimulant + SSRI combo ? I want to try that before Nardil


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

CD700 said:


> Its a good sign that she has trialled a TCA
> I'm thinking of giving Nardil a shot 2 but really not keen on the weight gain.
> 
> kehcorpz you ever thought of trying a stimulant + SSRI combo ? I want to try that before Nardil


I really don't care for the tolerance issues. And from stimulants I'd only try Ritalin as the others have been shown to be neurotoxic even in therapeutic doses. Ritalin actually shows signs of being neuroprotective. Plus in Canada apparently it's not easy to get stimulants if you're not diagnosed with ADHD. At least as of November 2011 health Canada has been pushing doctors not to prescribe off label. And if you do get it prescribed apparently they have to track you via some identification. Seems like a pain.

Anyways, I'm pretty much dead set on Nardil now hehe.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Chop, you said earlier you started to see benefits around week 8. How long did it take before it took its full effect?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Chop, you said earlier you started to see benefits around week 8. How long did it take before it took its full effect?


It's extremely hard to say, It is dose dependent. The higher dose i take the better i feel. But around the 3 month mark i was feeling pretty great on a stable 75mg dose.


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## ThePeon (Sep 13, 2012)

Aren't MAOIs notorious for having rather nasty side effects? I recall my high school psych teacher mentioning that.


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## VII (Mar 10, 2009)

Add me to the list of people who came off of Nardil and later went right back on. On day 3 of my restart...



ThePeon said:


> Aren't MAOIs notorious for having rather nasty side effects? I recall my high school psych teacher mentioning that.


The side effects and the interactions are very overestimated. I enjoyed a diet of very literally anything I wanted (of course after carefully monitoring what my body could handle) and had next to no side effects -- definitely the least of any antidepressant I've tried. MAOIs have a bad rep because a slight danger does exist, a hypertensive crisis is possible due to diet or medication crossing, but it's all definitely doable. A very fair trade, if you ask me, because it works beautifully.

Props to your teacher for mentioning MAOIs at all though... I've seen doctors that I've had to spell Nardil for because they had no idea what a MAOI is!


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> It's extremely hard to say, It is dose dependent. The higher dose i take the better i feel. But around the 3 month mark i was feeling pretty great on a stable 75mg dose.


Thanks for the reply, im on 60mg and its the 5 weeks mark, i see alot of positive benefits but the side effects are there. Not sure if i should keep with 60mg for another two weeks to see if i see more improvement and hopefully the side effects might lessen a bit. The worst side effect is sexual side effects currently and nasty insomnia which i am gonna trazodone to see if it helps.


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## nickdrake (Nov 3, 2016)

Love this post by ChopSuey... it's what convinced me to try Nardil initially and still on it 4 years later


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