# Manly man: Rude man



## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

When I complain why don't girls approach me, I am often told that its a man's job to approach, but I am not buying it I think the real reason is that they don't like me. But finally I found one more person, my mom, who isn't buying it either. When her landlord's granddaughter mentioned going for a trip to Russia with her boyfriend, I got mad that I never had anything like that happen in my own relationships and the closest thing to this that ever happened, with one of my ex-s going to North Carolina, my mom tried to stop. So I threw a temper tantrum right in front of my mom and that girl, used a bunch of F-words and so forth. Ever since that incident she no longer talks to me. Now its not like we were super-close before, I mean we only talked like once in few years when me and her happened to visit my mom's place at the same time and/or she visitted my mom's place on her own and my mom was asking me to call and talk to her. Still though, according to her father, she was asking about me a lot and the last time I talked to her she gave me her number and told me even calling after midnight is okay (I never actually called her though). Also she had boyfriends most of the times we were talking, so she didn't let go of me because of the bofyrieind: nope, she always thought of me as just a friend. I am pretty sure my temper tantrum is the reason. 

In any case, lets get back to the point. So here she is, not talking to me. But let me play devil's advocate a little. Why is my mom so worried that she is mad at me? Maybe she isnt' talking to me because its "the man's job" to talk first, and I didn't talk first. Well the reason I didn't talk first is because I know I am not welcome to. But did she say it to me? Nope. So maybe its all in my and my mom's head. I mean thats what they are telling me about all the other girls, so why not say the same thing about her? True, she stopped "making first approach" in conversation ever since I threw a temper tantrum. But maybe she didn't get mad at me for temper tantrum. Maybe temper tantrum made her realize I am a lot more of a manly man than she thought (after all, men are the ones who throw temper tantrums), and thats why gender roles are even more applicable to me than they are to other men. In case of most men they make the first move when they just introduce themselves for the first time. But in case of super-duper-manly-men such as sports starts OR men that throw temper tantrums, well they have to initiate conversation every single time. 

Incidentally thats what people taht I complain to seem to imply. I even had the facebook conversations (not about that girl but about other people) that went as follows

Me: Why don't anyone likes me
The other person: Because you did such and such
Me: I can't change the past what am I supposed to do
The other person: Talk to them first

But wait a second: if they are mad at me for something I done, why would I be welcome to talk to them first? Apparently because they aren't really mad at me, they just realized that I am more manly than other men (since lack of social skills is a masculine quality) and thats why the gender roles are even more applicable to me than they are to others.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

you still banging on about girls ?


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

causalset said:


> Apparently because they aren't really mad at me, they just realized that I am more manly than other men (since lack of social skills is a masculine quality) and thats why the gender roles are even more applicable to me than they are to others.


Nailed it. You are just too masculine for women.


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## SofaKing (May 9, 2014)

No, your tantrum outed you as childish and unpredictable. Not as "manly".

Own it...and forget about a future with that girl.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

Apparently you've got men confused with toddlers. It's toddlers. Toddlers are the ones who throw temper tantrums and make a scene. Men swallow their envy, smile and wish the other person a fun trip.


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## firewatch93 (May 7, 2017)

splendidbob said:


> Nailed it. You are just too masculine for women.


:lol I laughed so hard while reading this.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

you have been in relationships, guys like me with severe SA and being introvert and not like people don't get approached by girls at all, that's what happens when you're as ugly as I am, I just walk with my head down


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

MobiusX said:


> you have been in relationships, guys like me with severe SA and being introvert and not like people don't get approached by girls at all, *that's what happens when you're as ugly as I am,* I just walk with my head down


Same concept here. Being ugly is a male quality (well if being beautiful is a female quality thats just a simple logic) so thats why gender roles apply to you a lot more than they do to other men and thats why you have to do all of the approaching LOL. I am in the same predicament as you, except that in my case I am rude rather than ugly: another male quality.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

causalset said:


> Same concept here. Being an ugly is a male quality (well if being beautiful is a female quality thats just a simple logic) so thats why gender roles apply to you a lot more than they do to other men and thats why you have to do all of the approaching LOL. I am in the same predicament as you, except that in my case I am rude rather than ugly: another male quality.


I am rude also, I made a female cry at the job once just by saying nothing to her, imagine that. Once I was opening a door, walked to the other side and I guess she (another female) could tell I was pissed off and she actually was startled and jumped and looked afraid, she looked like she had just seen the virginia tech killer, I had a pissed off face because I hate working and idiots were and still are making me work so many Saturdays, plus I'm depressed and antisocial when it comes to most people, when I find the right person I am talkative


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

causalset said:


> But maybe she didn't get mad at me for temper tantrum. Maybe temper tantrum made her realize I am a lot more of a manly man than she thought (after all, men are the ones who throw temper tantrums), and thats why gender roles are even more applicable to me than they are to other men.


No, it was definitely the temper tantrum. Men don't regularly throw temper tantrums in the manner that you do (see your bus ride thread for reference). Temper tantrums are not seen as "manly," they are seen as *childish*. And when they're coming from adult men and are aimed at women, they can even be seen as *threatening*. "Jeez, if this is how easily he gets upset, and if this is how he acts when he gets upset, I sure want nothing to do with him!"

This post is coming from somebody who throws temper tantrums, BTW...I just make sure to do it when I'm not in public, where such actions will repel other people indefinitely.

Feel free to argue against or utterly ignore all the people telling you this, like always. Looks like you're off to a good start.

ETA:



causalset said:


> Being ugly is a male quality (well if being beautiful is a female quality thats just a simple logic)...


:wtf

No...no, that's not logic. What even.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

> But wait a second: if they are mad at me for something I done, why would I be welcome to talk to them first? Apparently because they aren't really mad at me, they just realized that I am more manly than other men (since lack of social skills is a masculine quality) and thats why the gender roles are even more applicable to me than they are to others.





> But in case of super-duper-manly-men such as sports starts OR men that throw temper tantrums, well they have to initiate conversation every single time. But maybe she didn't get mad at me for temper tantrum. Maybe temper tantrum made her realize I am a lot more of a manly man than she thought (after all, men are the ones who throw temper tantrums)





> Being ugly is a male quality (well if being beautiful is a female quality thats just a simple logic)
> 
> I am rude rather than ugly: another male quality.


What the **** did I just read.

Dude you need someone you can talk to about this stuff with regularly, you come up with some really out there conclusions even by this forum's standards.

Failing that you could write a guide for women on how to become a lesbian. The guide would just be your opinions about 'manliness.' Guys can use it too if they want to guarantee they'll never get laid.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

To those of you saying "no its not manly its childish", you just proven my point. When it comes to all other women that don't talk to me first, I am told "well a man should talk first" yet in case of this particular woman you actually admit that she got mad at me. So why am I being asked to believe about other women something different from what I am being asked to believe about this particular one -- especially since their behavior of not talking to me are identical? Well I guess its because with other women I didn't throw this kind of tantrum (after all I don't even know them). But then there's got to be something else they are pissed at: as evident from the way their behavior towards me is identical to the behavior of this girl after the tantrum. If you are going to deny my concern with other women and say "oh thats just gender roles" then you would have to say the same thing with this girl, LOL.


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## SofaKing (May 9, 2014)

Hmm...how did I possibly get into all my relationships without throwing toddler tantrums?

I guess something was wrong with those females that accepted me. What a fool I was.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## Neal (Jan 14, 2012)

causalset said:


> To those of you saying "no its not manly its childish", you just proven my point. When it comes to all other women that don't talk to me first, I am told "well a man should talk first" yet in case of this particular woman you actually admit that she got mad at me. So why am I being asked to believe about other women something different from what I am being asked to believe about this particular one -- especially since their behavior of not talking to me are identical? Well I guess its because with other women I didn't throw this kind of tantrum (after all I don't even know them). But then there's got to be something else they are pissed at: as evident from the way their behavior towards me is identical to the behavior of this girl after the tantrum. If you are going to deny my concern with other women and say "oh thats just gender roles" then you would have to say the same thing with this girl, LOL.


The two scenarios aren't in the least related. If you've freaked someone out or pissed them off, unless they enjoy abuse they'll probably avoid you. THEN it's up to you to repair things. Not because you're a man but because you're the one that screwed up. Also I can pretty much guarantee that any chance you had of getting close to her was shot to pieces since you never called her when she gave you her number. Even if she has a boyfriend, she might have single friends. But you kinda burned that bridge.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Failing that you could write a guide for women on how to become a lesbian. The guide would just be your opinions about 'manliness.' Guys can use it too if they want to guarantee they'll never get laid.


 @causalset please write this book.

Actually write books with the following titles:

"Finally Unearthed, the Mysterious Differences Between Masculine and Feminine"

"A Journey Through the Female Mind"


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Neal said:


> The two scenarios aren't in the least related.


The commonality is the behavior on the part of those women. Lets say you will take someone who didn't see my tantrum, and let that person observe the way various women act towards me (including this particular girl, plus several other ones) and ask that person to determine which of those girls I threw temper tantrum towards. That person won't be able to tell because they all act in the same way towards me: in all of those cases they simply won't innitiante the conversation.



Neal said:


> If you've freaked someone out or pissed them off, unless they enjoy abuse they'll probably avoid you. THEN it's up to you to repair things. Not because you're a man but because you're the one that screwed up.


Now lets put two rules side by side:

A. A man initiates things
B. Someone who screwed up has to repair things

and see what implications we get when we combine those things together. I can think of three theories:

Theory 1: A man is at fault for various sins of the male-gender, and so he has to repair things by approaching woman first

Theory 2: A man is typically lacking social skills compared to a woman. Thus, in a typical situation, a man has to make up for some faux pas or other by approaching woman first. There are some exceptions -- for instance my mom's dad was super-polite and in fact more polite than most women -- and those are the situations where women approach a man first. But since most men aren't like my grandfather, thats why a typical man has to approach a woman.

Theory 3: Whoever messed things up marks themselves as "more manly" of the two (if a woman messes things up then she is a manly woman talking to a feminine male) and therefore that person has to follow their gender roles "as a man" by initiating the fixing of the screwup.



Neal said:


> Also I can pretty much guarantee that any chance you had of getting close to her was shot to pieces since you never called her when she gave you her number. Even if she has a boyfriend, she might have single friends. But you kinda burned that bridge.


It wasn't the first time she gave me her phone number and I didn't call. I still remember, back from 2005, when she was pestering me to call her for the next week or two after seeing me. The pattern is that she only sees me once in few years, after each visit she tries to keep contact and I don't call and then eventually she gives up and then few more years we don't talk until the next visit when the same thing repeats.

I am not sure what you mean about single friends though: if she herself isn't single why would she expect her friends to be? But then again she never said she expected me to be single, I am just looking at what you wrote. As a matter of fact I was telling her about people I was dating when I was dating them and that was fine.


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

causalset said:


> Now lets put two rules side by side:
> 
> A. A man initiates things
> B. Someone who screwed up has to repair things
> ...


If I wasn't totally lost before, I am now.


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## The Library of Emma (Mar 3, 2016)




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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

I think I finally understand what you are trying to say..

You threw a massive tantrum near a woman, and think that she wont speak to you first because you are more manly (due to the tantrum) and gender roles dictate that the manlier person usually initiates?

Is that what you are saying?

(one word answer please).


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

splendidbob said:


> I think I finally understand what you are trying to say..
> 
> You threw a massive tantrum near a woman, and think that she wont speak to you first because you are more manly (due to the tantrum) and gender roles dictate that the manlier person usually initiates?
> 
> ...


Or, on a flip side, when people are telling me *other women* don't talk to me first because its a man's job, they are just making excuses and avoid telling me the real reason: that other women are just as pissed at me as this one is.


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Actually lack of social skills isn't a manly quality, it is a social anxiety quality. Now if you go around wearing a man bun and wearing plaid shirts with an axe in your hand, maybe you might be onto something.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

causalset said:


> Or, on a flip side, when people are telling me *other women* don't talk to me first because its a man's job, they are just making excuses and avoid telling me the real reason: that other women are just as pissed at me as this one is.


Why would women who don't know you be pissed at you? Did pixies come down and curse them all?

1. Women rarely initiate
2. You totally put this woman off you, so no, she definitely won't initiate.

2 is a reason why she didn't initiate, but 1 would be another reason that would probably have sufficed had you not thrown a _manly_ tantrum in front of her.

Or in summary, there can be more than one reason for a behaviour.

Other examples of behaviours where there are more than one cause:

1. I don't like pears
2. I have no money

Therefore I don't buy pears.

1. I am not wearing trousers
2. I don't like supermarkets

Therefore I don't enter the supermarket

1. I Don't have wings
2. I am terrified of flying
3. I can't afford to travel on planes
4. I am in a coma in a hospital

Therefore I don't fly

The last one will blow your mind, there can be even more than two reasons why someone does, or doesn't do something.

1 short paragraph only please in reply, or I will ignore.


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## Neal (Jan 14, 2012)

causalset said:


> Or, on a flip side, when people are telling me *other women* don't talk to me first because its a man's job, they are just making excuses and avoid telling me the real reason: that other women are just as pissed at me as this one is.


No it's not a man's job. Though a lot of people do believe that. But if you want to be the kinda guy that gets approached by women then you'd have to be the kinda guy women want to approach. Sitting around waiting for someone to notice you is just as big of a pain in the *** as being the one out initiating. The rejection is all the same. Either they're gonna reject you openly and verbally or theyll do it by totally ignoring you. That's why it boggles my mind that a gender war always happens on these forums because we're all in the same situation. We're all waiting for the right person to come along and by some miracle become attracted.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

splendidbob said:


> Why would women who don't know you be pissed at you? Did pixies come down and curse them all?


They might not like my hair being a mess. Or they might think I am intense. Yes, being intense is one of the answers I got when I asked people and I have same question as you: how could I possibly be "intense" if I never even talked to them? But I guess they just judge my body language.



splendidbob said:


> Why would women who don't know you be pissed at you? Did pixies come down and curse them all?
> 
> 1. Women rarely initiate
> 2. You totally put this woman off you, so no, she definitely won't initiate.
> ...


Nope, 1 didn't suffice, as evident from all the previous times when she was initiating, before my tantrum (in fact every single time I talked to her it was either her initiating or my mom, never me; and yes half the time it was her: like her coming when my mom isn't at home yet and the first thing she does is go to my room to talk, or her calling/emailing me by herself etc). Which brings me to my point: if it was true that women don't like to initiate, why did she do that all those past years, before my tantrum? Thats what makes me think that if in her case "2" is the only factor, the same applies to other women too, at least to a lot of them, and when I am told about 1 its just an excuse.



Neal said:


> No it's not a man's job. Though a lot of people do believe that. But if you want to be the kinda guy that gets approached by women then you'd have to be the kinda guy women want to approach. Sitting around waiting for someone to notice you is just as big of a pain in the *** as being the one out initiating. The rejection is all the same. Either they're gonna reject you openly and verbally or theyll do it by totally ignoring you. That's why it boggles my mind that a gender war always happens on these forums because we're all in the same situation. We're all waiting for the right person to come along and by some miracle become attracted.


Thats precisely my piont. And its not just people that are being ostracized that say it. Its also the "normal" people that want to come up with a cop-out response to an outcast that say it, too. At least a lot of "normal" people told that to me, and I was never buying it. Glad you agree.

So now that you agree with me that its not man's job to approach first, what is it about me that makes women not approach me? Do I look "manly" by not bothering to cumb my hair? I mean thats what it sounds like when on the one hand there are people that admit its my hair and on the other hand there are others that tell me man should approach first.


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## Neal (Jan 14, 2012)

causalset said:


> So now that you agree with me that its not man's job to approach first, what is it about me that makes women not approach me? Do I look "manly" by not bothering to cumb my hair? I mean thats what it sounds like when on the one hand there are people that admit its my hair and on the other hand there are others that tell me man should approach first.


Well seeing how Ive never seen nor met you I can only make assumptions off of what Ive seen you say. But I'd say grooming is a must. Comb your hair, trim your beard. And definitely clean under your nails. Women put a lot of work on theirs so they'll notice if yours are dirty very quickly. Make sure your nose is clean lol. Unless youre a short guy, women will be able to see right up there when talking to you. Also youve got multiple things making it more challenging. You have Asperger and I gather that you dont understand a lot of social conventions. Youre also from another country. So the culture here will be a little different and you'd have to take time to figure out the nuances. Also youre very educated on a topic few people know a lot about. So a casual conversation will be more challenging with people unless youre well versed in random crap like movies and tv shows. I only mention these other things because ive never heard of women randomly approaching guys but doing it after they watched him or heard good things from other people. Thats the way my sister did with her husband. My mom moved in on my dad after her sisters said good things about him. My gf asked me out after I worked with her and other classmates for a few weeks. Also being more approachable is important. I could be wrong, but its all i know. Heres a list of things that will make you less approachable:

1. Looking pissed
2. Wearing earbuds
3. Turning your back to groups of people talking
4. Having your arms crossed all the time (its a defensive posture)
5. Always reading (polite people wont interrupt your reading to talk to you)
6. Frequently getting angry or irritated (for those that see you regularly)
7. Staring
8. Never smiling (back to looking pissed)
9. Looking unkempt (people can/will make assumptions)
10. Always on a smartphone (same as books and earbuds)
11. Being too serious


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

All I've learned from this thread is that @splendidbob is in a coma and so he won't be flying any time soon. That's the lesson I'm taking to bed with me tonight.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

@causalset, you usually ask why people (mainly women) do things and that certain behaviours are a poor way to reach the desired goal. You usually have a point as many human behaviours are highly inefficient, you're usual issue is not being able to understand that and work within the world that actually exists instead of complaining about it.

Today, you seem to have left your logic behind, it's like you're suffering a catastrophic logic failure. There is no way you could honestly look at what you've said in this thread and think it's anything more than a non-sequitur.

I'm hoping this is just your version of a "women only like..." thread. If you want to stand a reasonable chance of ever being able to have another relationship that can last for a while you need to get over this persecution complex. The reason is that it clearly holds you back from learning lessons and improving as a person and also because you're wrong. 

That's simple logic.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Neal said:


> Well seeing how Ive never seen nor met you I can only make assumptions off of what Ive seen you say. But I'd say grooming is a must. Comb your hair, trim your beard. And definitely clean under your nails. Women put a lot of work on theirs so they'll notice if yours are dirty very quickly. Make sure your nose is clean lol. Unless youre a short guy, women will be able to see right up there when talking to you.


Yeah those are the things my mom keeps picking on each time I visit her, and unless I visit her I don't do those things. Could it be why women in California are "friendlier" than elsewhere, since each time I am in California my mom actually takes a cotton pick and cleans out my ears? Speaking of my mom, however, she is among the very few people that doesn't like it when my hair is cut too short, but the fact that my hair is longer is what keeps it messy because right now that someone cut it short its not messy any more but my mom doesn't like it that way.



Neal said:


> Also youve got multiple things making it more challenging. You have Asperger and I gather that you dont understand a lot of social conventions. Youre also from another country. So the culture here will be a little different and you'd have to take time to figure out the nuances.


Yeah, especially since both things go in one direction. People with Asperger tend to be more blunt and people from Russia are more blunt, people with Asperger smile less, and people in Russia smile less.



Neal said:


> Also youre very educated on a topic few people know a lot about. So a casual conversation will be more challenging with people unless youre well versed in random crap like movies and tv shows.


Yeah thats my other problem. In fact, what ends up happening is that I either resort to awkward silence or else I resort to talking about myself, all because I don't know about those other topics.



Neal said:


> I only mention these other things because ive never heard of women randomly approaching guys but doing it after they watched him or heard good things from other people. Thats the way my sister did with her husband. My mom moved in on my dad after her sisters said good things about him. My gf asked me out after I worked with her and other classmates for a few weeks.


That actually reminds me of how Anne approached me in a math class back in 2005. She is actually my top choice of someone I want to date, particularly because she is a sister of a senator AND a mathematician as well, but I stupidly blew it by telling her how my mom shelters me and then not being able to convince her that just because my mom shelters me it doesn't mean I actually want to be sheltered, she only shelters me against my will.

Anyway. going back to how Anne approached me: so she approached me in the Spring 2005 class. But before she ever approached me, she talked to a guy who was in a different class in Fall 2004. I didn't end up taking that other class: I dropped it because its too easy; but I been in that class first couple of weeks, and during those two weeks the professor broke us up in a study groups to do homework together, and that guy was in my group. So that guy told Anne that I come up with unusual ways of solving the homework problems and that he was rather impressed. Also Anne didn't approach me the first day of class, she approached me a month into the semester, but later on she mentioned that she been looking at me since day 1 but I never noticed her, and also when I told her I have Asperger she said to me that "yeah I noticed that you kept to yourself a lot" she also mentioned that she noticed that I was wearing warm jacket and was wondering if it was too hot for me.

But this brings the following question: so as we both testify, sometimes women approach because their friends say good things. But in this case, can the opposite also be the case: that women don't approach me because their friends said bad things about me? Could it be that there are some bad rumors going on about me? And if so, how can I possibly fix it without transferring schools? You mentioned women watch me. Okay so I want them to watch me being more social. But how can I be more social if all those rumors are stopping people from talking to me?



Neal said:


> 1. Looking pissed


I do look pissed, but only because women don't talk to me. If a woman starts talking to me I won't look pissed any more, guaranteed. But they just aren't talking to me so its circular.



Neal said:


> 2. Wearing earbuds


I don't wear those.



Neal said:


> 3. Turning your back to groups of people talking


Are you meaning literally or figuratively? If I am not part of that conversation, wouldn't it be a bit rude of I were to look at them?



Neal said:


> 4. Having your arms crossed all the time (its a defensive posture)


You know, the other day a woman, probably age of 50 or 60, who looked like she could be homeless herself, stopped me and asked me if I was okay. I said I was, she asked me if I was sure. And then when I asked why do I look not okay, she mentioend that I might be homeless and when I asked why she said that I am in the area with a lot of homeless people around, I carry a bag, and my arms are crossed so I must be cold (incidentally it was very hot not cold, so the only way I could have possibly been cold is if I had some kind of weird desease or whatever; she didn't mentioned it but I am sure she implied it I mean it was REALLY hot). Anyway I told her that I am a student htats why I have bag with books and then I asked her "don't students ever cary bags" and she said "no". Well how could it be no if students obviously need bags? Maybe she meant they don't wanter into that area and stay on campus? But that area was only like a mile or two away from campus and I get bored being stuck on campus -- especially if I am trying to avoid constantly seeing guys and girls having good time and being jealous that I don't. Its pretty hard to concentrate on my work when I keep getting disracted with those thoughts thats why I am trying to isolate myself from other students in order to be able to focus. In any case I am saying all that because she mentioned crossed arms. Well in that particular siutation they were crossed because I been thinking about physics.



Neal said:


> 5. Always reading (polite people wont interrupt your reading to talk to you)


Yeah, I remembe a waitress telling me she sees me around all the time and I asked her why doesn't she talk to me and she said "because ... you are always with a book!" But what am I supposed to do? I mean I do have a lot of homework and stuff. Obviously, I will put it aside if I get any chance at socializing (I don't mind, I can spare half an hour) but I can't just predict when or where a girl would want to talk, so my normal routine is to study throughout the day so that I don't fall behind. What else would you suggest?



Neal said:


> 6. Frequently getting angry or irritated (for those that see you regularly)


That goes back to rumors question I asked hearlier. I can come up with a list of around 5 or 10 people that wittnessed my temper tantrums (I am talking about the whole year, not just a day, so 5 to 10 incidents PER YEAR isn't a lot) but the question is: did they spread it around?



Neal said:


> 7. Staring


Yeah, I do that when I am obsessing why doesn't such and such girl approach me: I just end up staring at her.



Neal said:


> 8. Never smiling (back to looking pissed)


Well, I do smile A LOT when people talk to me, but I don't smile at all when I am by myself and feel ostracized. And since usually I am by myself thats why I don't smilie and thats why they don't talk to me so I remain by myself and not smiling. So its circular.



Neal said:


> 9. Looking unkempt (people can/will make assumptions)


I guess sometimes I just can't tell. Like when I visit my mom she oftentimes tries to clean my ears the first thing she does; but how am I supposed to know about my ears I can't see things there. Also my mom sometimes tells me "this shirt looks dirty, put on this one instead" but I just can't tell the difference. Well I know when it smells dirty but I don't know when it looks dirty and my mom can tell how it looks.



Neal said:


> 10. Always on a smartphone (same as books and earbuds)


That one thing is recent: I only got internet on my phone within this past month. So this one is probably the easiest one to undo.



Neal said:


> 11. Being too serious


Same as 8.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

splendidbob said:


> Other examples of behaviours where there are more than one cause:
> 
> 1. I don't like pears
> 2. I have no money
> ...


In the interest of fairness and intellectual honesty it behooves me to challenge you on this point. I can see what you're getting at but you make an obvious error.

Pears are delicious.

As you were.


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

A man would not throw a tantrum and curse at his mother in front of a woman he is interested in. He would explain to his mother what his plans were and that he was sorry that she did not agree with his choice but it is his decision. He would also not have that conversation in front of the woman he is interested in. A child throws tantrum like that and I'm sure she saw how you treated your mother and thought maybe that childish angry tantrum would be directed at her one day. Your mentality about men throwing tantrums is off. Who told you it was manly to throw tantrums?
There are women out there who like shy "men".


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Cmart said:


> A man would not throw a tantrum and curse at his mother in front of a woman he is interested in. He would explain to his mother what his plans were and that he was sorry that she did not agree with his choice but it is his decision.


I think you are confusing two women. So the woman with whom I had plans, and my mom interfered, was J., and it happened all the way back in 2008. On the other hand, the woman in front of whom I threw temper tantrum about it was B., I did it just three weeks ago (now, in 2017), and the reason I threw that temper tantrum is that B. was going to go to a trip with her boyfriend and I got angry that my mom spoke positively about the trip B. was about to take, but not about the one I used to take in the past. So no, B. isn't a woman I am interested in: she has her own boyfriend. Now, its also true that I knew B. for a very long time (I mentioned in my other reply how B. was pestering me as to why I don't call her all the way back in 2005) but I never dated B. at all, we were always just friends and we only talked once in few years.

As far as J., I dated her in 2007--2009 and the trip took place in 2008 so at that stage I more or less took her for granted and all I wanted was "either" for J. to cancel the trip so that my mom leaves me alone "or" for my mom to cancel her own plans so that J. leaves me alone, I didn't care which one. Now, according to J., I did yell at her, when I was trying to get her to let me do my mom's thing. But on my end I wasn't angry at all, I was just scared and wanted to pressure J. to give in to my mom so that I won't have to be scared. But then, several years later, when I had that conversation with B., then all of a sudden I realized I "should have" been angry with my mom back in 2008 about J. which I wasn't, so thats why I yelled at my mom in 2017 instead, in front of B.

My mom's perspective on this is that I could have done both plans since the cultural event my mom was going to was right *after* whatever I was going to go with J, and my mom says that its my fault that J. stopped me from going to my mom's event because I told J. horrible things about my mom. But you see, on my end, the only reason I was telling J. bad things about my mom is *because* I was lead to believe there was conflict in plans so I was like "please let me do what my mom wants me to do so that she doesn't get mad". And why did I decide there was conflict? Because my mom told me so! Then why is she telling me now that there didn't have to be a conflict? And if she knew that there didn't have to be a conflict, why didn't she say it to me back then and then the problem would have been solved?

So it seems like my mom was simply trying to break us up thats why she only told me that there didn't have to be a conflict after both events have passed. my mom is the one that created the conflict, so if she knows that both plans were possible, why did she even create a conflict on the first place? As a matter of fact, when I did end up going with J. my mom was telling me to make sure I don't get engaged to her and also she was really worried that J. would "drag me into a bad and make a kid" (my mom's words) So why isn't she having those worries when it comes to B? Obviously B. isn't her daughter but still it just pisses me off.

I also yelled at B. as well, about a different conversation I had with her: few weeks prior to that, B. asked me if I have a girlfriend and I said not at the moment but I want one, and then I don't know how we got to that topic but I told her that I am scared of marriage but I have to marry eventually (perhaps at 50) so that I can have kids, and then she said "wait a second, you want to have kids, but you have rough personality you won't be able to be gentle with them" And that really pissed me off because I don't get how can B. assume I will always be this way. I mean when I do certain things that are incompatible with having kids, I am assuming I am that way now, as opposed to throughout the rest of my life. But B. apparently assumes that thats how I always will be and will die childless. But, just like I didn't yell at my mom when I should have, I didn't yell at B. when I should have either. Instead, I yelled about both topics at the same time right during that conversation when B. and my mom were together at the table and B. mentioned that trip that she was going to.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

Sheska said:


> OMG and just think of all those pear desserts...


I doubt I could pear the temptation (dad jokes FTW). :laugh:


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

@causalset, let me ask you a question.

Do you think your reaction (the tantrum) was acceptable behaviour?

Don't go on any tangents, just directly answer that question please.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

LonelyLurker said:


> @causalset, let me ask you a question.
> 
> Do you think your reaction (the tantrum) was acceptable behaviour?
> 
> Don't go on any tangents, just directly answer that question please.


No it wasn't.

But people's reaction to unacceptable behavior isn't acceptable either. Two wrongs don't make it up to right.


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

I have adhd so what I get from your stories is this:
Women were cursed at by you 
It is manly to throw tantrums in your view
You need to detach from your mother
You are angry when others are happy and enjoying life
And I asked: who taught you that throwing a tantrum was manly?

Oh I am also on the spectrum


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

causalset said:


> No it wasn't.
> 
> But people's reaction to unacceptable behavior isn't acceptable either. Two wrongs don't make it up to right.


OK, so considering you can't control other people, wouldn't the pragmatic course of action be to address your own flaws first? Thereby reducing the probability of future adverse responses and increasing the probability of future success.

And you're right two wrongs don't make a right but neither does three.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

Sheska said:


> All this talking of desserts makes feel that unless a man is capable of baking a pear tart in this manner he's no manly man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But what if his tart has a soggy bottom?

I'd better stop. :laugh:


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Cmart said:


> And I asked: who taught you that throwing a tantrum was manly?


I didn't say that manly is good, not at all. If having bad social skills is manly then I don't want to be manly! I am just trying to analyze how society labels things, and how ridiculous it gets. What I said was

a) Women have better social skills than men, therefore its manly to have bad social skills
b) Men have to approach first, therefore, wahtever keeps women from making first approach is manly
c) Having bad social skills keeps women from making first approach, so, in light of b, having bad social skills is manly
d) Isn't it interesting how parts a and c show that bad social skills are manly at the same time in two different ways so the evidence match up
e) Temper tantrum is just the latest example of bad social skills (I am using the term losely). I could instead put something else like having messy hair and so forth.

Once again, since manly is such a negative thing then no I don't want to be manly. I just want to show you the underlying assumptions others make without noticing.


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

Where are you getting all of this from? Those are your assumptions. 
You also have to understand that women don't always approach guys they don't know for safety reasons. It has nothing to do with being manly or not manly.


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

I also have a feeling that this is not your first post about the topic.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Cmart said:


> Where are you getting all of this from? Those are your assumptions.


I am taking the things people tell me and then use logic to tie them together. The things I quote people saying (such as men approaching first) aren't my assumptions, those are the things people actually told me. But then I use logic to tie them together in order to show you just how ridiculous it can get, which people don't seem to realize.



Cmart said:


> You also have to understand that women don't always approach guys they don't know for safety reasons. It has nothing to do with being manly or not manly.


Well that just goes to show that being unsafe is the same as being manly. Which is one more reason why I absolutely do NOT want to be manly and I resent the fact that I am being stuck with that label.

Now, here are the two ways in which it bothers me:

1. I know for a fact I would never inappropriately touch a woman or do anything else inappropriate for that matter (as far as tantrums those are verbal not physical) so I don't like it when women assume I am the type of person that can do those things. I guess it bothers me on two levels. First of all, I am sure a homeless man is a lot less safe than physics professor. So could it be that I am being mistaken for homeless? I mean I can give you a list of people of both genders that actually DID mistake me for homeless. That list is very short, yes; but could it be that others are sort of wondering about it even if they don't know? Now I do realize that even among normal men there are some pervs where you won't even guess: I think there were some stories of normal men with good jobs that do crazy things. But the simple fact remains that I am not one of them and it frustrates me that my life is being ruined because other men decided to be idiots.

2. Since safety is the reason why women don't approach first, wouldn't women feel even LESS safe when men are the ones doing the approaching? I guess the logic behind this is that women would rather not talk to men at all, period, but if men approach first then women would be pretty much forced to respond out of politeness. Well, if so, then pretending that it is "social norm" for men to approach women is bad on several different levels at the same time. First of all, it is dangerous to women. Secondly, it is dishonest to men since you are essentially lying to them that "oh its just a mans job" instead of telling them the truth "you are not welcome" and thirdly it leaves the question open: so how are the people supposed to find their partner anyway?


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

What have you been diagnosed with?


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

For people with severe social anxiety online dating is a good way to go. It gives you a chance to get over the initial small talk that makes it so hard to get to know people. And it can take a lot of anxiety and fear out of talking to someone in person for the first time.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

causalset said:


> But the simple fact remains that I am not one of them and it frustrates me that my life is being ruined because other men decided to be idiots.


I think this may be the crux of your issues. You need to take some personal responsibility here, though that doesn't necessarily mean that you are wholly to blame.

If your life was being ruined because of the actions of other men that would apply to all other men also. Are all other men's lives being ruined as yours is? No, therefore that would suggest this isn't the reason for your lack of success. You're doing something that causes them to be suspicious of you (whether rightly or wrongly, that's largely irrelevant).

What do the men that are successful (you could even narrow the field down to only autistic men who manage to find relationships) do that you don't?

Once you accept that there must be a difference (even if it wasn't your fault) you could take steps to change or mitigate the issue. However, if you won't accept that you could change things by changing your own behaviour you'll just have to hope that someone simply wanders into your life and doesn't get scared away, a high risk strategy.


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

Well people on here are telling you that some of what you have heard and believe isn't accurate. You are trying to put your own logic to a bunch of random stuff you have heard. It's not going to work. The reason I know it won't work because I have tried to put my own form of logic to social situations and the rules always changed on me. Everyone is different so every interaction will be different. Stop obsessing about what happened in 2008 or whenever it happened and try different ways of approaching or not approaching people. If something isn't working with one person it might work with another you don't know until you try.


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## Cmart (Aug 16, 2010)

I really wish my adhd meds hadn't worn off before I logged in. I could have saved a lot of time by reading the whole thread earlier. Everyone is telling you the same thing and you just want to argue.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

tehuti88 said:


> All I've learned from this thread is that @splendidbob is in a coma and so he won't be flying any time soon. That's the lesson I'm taking to bed with me tonight.


Bah, if I can post while in a coma, it's not going to stop me from stepping on a plane 



LonelyLurker said:


> In the interest of fairness and intellectual honesty it behooves me to challenge you on this point. I can see what you're getting at but you make an obvious error.
> 
> Pears are delicious.
> 
> As you were.


I lied about the pears. In fact I was eating one as I posted, so it was a particularly sinister lie 



Sheska said:


> All this talking of desserts makes feel that unless a man is capable of baking a pear tart in this manner he's no manly man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is only manly if he is shouting abuse at a woman while doing it (or better throwing a temper tantrum).



causalset said:


> a) Women have better social skills than men, therefore its manly to have bad social skills


They might have better social skills on average (but it would be mild, and almost impossible to measure), the magnitude of difference wouldn't justify calling social skills a female trait, and the lack of social ability a manly trait. Once again you are falling into black and white thinking.

Men _might_ for example typically have slightly better coordination than women that doesn't make tennis (or indeed foreplay) manly.

Having a tantrum isn't a manly trait.



causalset said:


> b) Men have to approach first, therefore, wahtever keeps women from making first approach is manly


Again, no they don't, it is just usual for men to approach first. Consider it a probability thing.

Normally a woman might approach 4% of the time (made up percentage).

If a woman is a bolder, more confident woman she might approach(15%), if the man is particularly desirable she might be even more inclined to approach (27%), if she knows something about the man (and knows he will react well) she is even more likely to approach (40%). It isn't 0 or 100% as it seems in your mind.

In your example, the woman was happy to approach you, until you threw a temper tantrum in front of her, making you totally undesirable and dropping the % down to 0. Simple.



causalset said:


> c) Having bad social skills keeps women from making first approach, so, in light of b, having bad social skills is manly


What keeps most women from approaching is stuff like, fear of rejection, fear of how they will be seen socially (will they be seen as ****ty or whatever), fear of how the man will respond, that they usually don't need to do the approaching, they show subtle signs of interest and men approach them. Those aren't "masculine things". A man having bad social skills (most don't) isn't what keeps women from approaching.



causalset said:


> d) Isn't it interesting how parts a and c show that bad social skills are manly at the same time in two different ways so the evidence match up


No nothing has been shown.



causalset said:


> e) Temper tantrum is just the latest example of bad social skills (I am using the term losely). I could instead put something else like having messy hair and so forth.


A temper tantrum isn't even an example of bad social skills its more like poor impulse control or anger management. It's less manly and more childish.



causalset said:


> Once again, since manly is such a negative thing then no I don't want to be manly. I just want to show you the underlying assumptions others make without noticing.


You are just using the wrong word, when you say manly, you mean childish.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)




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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

splendidbob said:


> You are just using the wrong word, when you say manly, you mean childish.


Manly = An act, as a result of which, social norms applicable to *men* apply to you

Childish= An act, as a result of which, social norms applicable to *children* apply to you

In Russia there is a social norm that children say hello first. So, *if* that girl was Russian (which she isn't) and *if* being Russian she were to react in the same way she did (another good question) then I were to say my behavior was childish. But you see she wasn't Russian she is an American. In America its only the men that start conversation first. Therefore, by looking at her expecting me to talk to her first I can't help but say that my behavior was manly.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Sheska said:


> That's it, Chuck Norris has been summoned. Run...


Don't dis Chuck!


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## The Library of Emma (Mar 3, 2016)

causalset said:


> Manly = An act, as a result of which, social norms applicable to *men* apply to you
> 
> Childish= An act, as a result of which, social norms applicable to *children* apply to you
> 
> In Russia there is a social norm that children say hello first. So, *if* that girl was Russian (which she isn't) and *if* being Russian she were to react in the same way she did (another good question) then I were to say my behavior was childish. But you see she wasn't Russian she is an American. In America its only the men that start conversation first. Therefore, by looking at her expecting me to talk to her first I can't help but say that my behavior was manly.


You can be childish without being a child. Acting like a child will not reduce you in size and years, so it's not as if everyone around you will start treating you like a toddler, even if you behave in an immature manner. While adult temper tantrums are more frightening than a child's, they are no less out of control. Self composure is "manly." Children let their emotions rule them entirely. Tired? Sit down on the floor, right where you are. Sad? Start to wail. Angry? Start making a fuss, yell, scream, throw things around. That's not something a well-tempered adult aspires to. In fact, I'd say that such behavior is deeply _not_ manly, even if it inspires fear, because it is akin to letting a child take over your body for five or ten minutes.


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

causalset said:


> In America its only the men that start conversation first. Therefore, by looking at her expecting me to talk to her first I can't help but say that my behavior was manly.


TIL the way to start conversation with a woman is to throw a screaming fit. But only if the woman is American.


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## tehuti88 (Jun 19, 2005)

Sheska said:


> How you doin? :wink2:


Women better keep away from me when my computer is acting up...I must be so unbelievably attractive then, I would have to fend them off with a stick. After I beat the computer to death with it. :lol


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## Neal (Jan 14, 2012)

causalset said:


> But this brings the following question: so as we both testify, sometimes women approach because their friends say good things. But in this case, can the opposite also be the case: that women don't approach me because their friends said bad things about me? Could it be that there are some bad rumors going on about me? And if so, how can I possibly fix it without transferring schools? You mentioned women watch me. Okay so I want them to watch me being more social. But how can I be more social if all those rumors are stopping people from talking to me?
> 
> he sees me around all the time and I asked her why doesn't she talk to me and she said "because ... you are always with a book!" But what am I supposed to do? I mean I do have a lot of homework and stuff. Obviously, I will put it aside if I get any chance at socializing (I don't mind, I can spare half an hour) but I can't just predict when or where a girl would want to talk, so my normal routine is to study throughout the day so that I don't fall behind. What else would you suggest?
> 
> That goes back to rumors question I asked hearlier. I can come up with a list of around 5 or 10 people that wittnessed my temper tantrums (I am talking about the whole year, not just a day, so 5 to 10 incidents PER YEAR isn't a lot) but the question is: did they spread it around?


There's a lot here so I'm just going to respond to these two questions. Yeah a person can most definitely have a bad reputation. This can happen in places like where you work or amongst the people you frequently encountered at school. Now keep in mind that if you're at a large university it's doubtful that a ton of people even know who you are nevermind speak about you. It would probably only limited to those you have worked with and spoken to. Also it's possible that people don't really think or talk about you at all. I know with SA I tend to think that the attention is focused on me but to be honest a lot of people probably dont even notice I exist. But you can change people's opinions of you by simply... changing. It probably won't happen instantly though. It also depends on the maturity level of the people. A mature adult might respect that someone is trying to improve themselves, an immature person not so much. As for what to do about your studies and always reading, I have no idea how to answer that. I just graduated a few weeks ago and i won't lie I had little to no free time for people. It's probably maddening for those without SA who aren't used to being alone a lot.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

splendidbob said:


> I lied about the pears. In fact I was eating one as I posted, so it was a particularly sinister lie


I'm glad to hear it, I feared that I had misjudged your character horribly.



splendidbob said:


> Men _might_ for example typically have slightly better coordination than women that doesn't make tennis *(or indeed foreplay)* manly.


It behooves me to challenge...:laugh:


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

tehuti88 said:


> TIL the way to start conversation with a woman is to throw a screaming fit. But only if the woman is American.


Once again, I didn't say that manly is what gets women to talk to me: quite the opposite I said they avoid me because I am "manly" so it happehned to be a bad thing in this case.

I guess what I am getting at is that everyone agrees that screaming is bad, but the specific excuses that they make change from culture to culture. In Russia they say "screaming is childish and childish is bad", while in feminist America they say "screaming is manly and manly is bad". In both cases it ends up being "bad" but for a different reason.

Another example of this sort of things is the way women who reject me respond to my telling them I will change: their response is "oh no don't change, you have to be who you are, so be single just for the sake of being who you are". Now that kind of response is colored by the "American tolerance" rhetoric. So what would they say to me in Russia where that concept is unheard of? They will say something like "your behavior is inadequate and I can't deal with it". But the outcome is the same.

And that is what makes it so ironic. Since different cultures use different rhetoric and concepts but end up with the same result, thats why I end up feeling so frustrated: sometimes I am ostracized because I am too manly and in another situation I am ostracized for not being manly enough, but in all cases I can never win.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

causalset said:


> I guess what I am getting at is that everyone agrees that screaming is bad, but the specific excuses that they make change from culture to culture. In Russia they say "screaming is childish and childish is bad", while in feminist America they say "screaming is manly and manly is bad". In both cases it ends up being "bad" but for a different reason.
> 
> .


Screaming is manly in America? Where getting this from?

Think too much, over-analyze, need at least modicum of EQ.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

caveman8 said:


> Screaming is manly in America? Where getting this from?
> 
> Think too much, over-analyze, need at least modicum of EQ.


From the fact that when American girls totally ignore me I am told that man should talk first. Yet girls don't ignore the other guys, they only ignore me. So if I were to buy the excuse "man is to talk first" then I guess I am more manly than other guys  since females have better social skills and so lack of social skills makes me manly. I mean how else would you explain why everyone tells me "men is to talk first" when it is so clearly that my lack of social skills is the reason?!

Well lack of social skills when it comes to other girls plays the same logical role as temper tantrum when it comes to this particular girl. In case of other girls, they don't talk to me because I lack social skills but I am told they don't talk to me because its man's job to talk first. Then this particular girl stopped talking to me because I threw temper tantrum. Well, since her behavior towards me is IDENTICAL to every other girl, it is only left to repeat the same old excuse people were telling me before: this one girl also doesn't talk to me because its man's job to talk first  And why did she only realized it after the tantrum? Well I cguess cause tantrum made me look manly


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

causalset said:


> Once again, I didn't say that manly is what gets women to talk to me: quite the opposite I said they avoid me because I am "manly" so it happehned to be a bad thing in this case.
> 
> I guess what I am getting at is that everyone agrees that screaming is bad, but the specific excuses that they make change from culture to culture. In Russia they say "screaming is childish and childish is bad", while in feminist America they say "screaming is manly and manly is bad". In both cases it ends up being "bad" but for a different reason.
> 
> ...


Are you getting your ideas about what is manly/masculine from the negative opinions certain feminists have about men?


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Are you getting your ideas about what is manly/masculine from the negative opinions certain feminists have about men?


Yeah, except that those opinions have infected a lot of American women, although they don't even realize it. And thats the point of over-analyzing: it uncovers the implicit assumptions people are making without noticing them.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Oh by the way I just remembered one more thing that can give you a good analogy. So back in 2004 I have a conflict with a landlord about her wanting me to pay for fixing a washer machine because she thought I was the one that broke it but I didn't think it was me who broke it (well it was really my Jewish mom and my Jewish roommate who didn't think I should pay, if not for them I would of just paid). Anyway, at some piont in the argument the landlord said "you can't be Jewish about that" in reference to the fact that I have to pay my share. And this made me think of the following joke: 

Question: why is it bad to cheat and manipulate?

Answer: Because its a Jewish thing to do, and Jews killed Jesus. If Jews didn't kill Jesus, then cheating and manipulation would of been good because they would have been God's chosen. But since they did kill Jesus, thats why Jewish things became bad -- and thats why cheating and manipulation is bad. 

Well the reason its a joke is because if you look at the cultures that hold Jews in high regard -- such as America for example -- they still see cheating and manipulation as a bad thing. So I guess they have to come up with some other reason why its bad, without reference to its Jewishness. But I won't be surprised at all if the cultures that don't like Jews would, in fact, buy to the above logic. Thus, nobody likes cheaters or manipulators, but they come up with different reasons as to why not. 

In the same way, nobody likes people that throw temper tantrums. But the rationalization is different in each case. The feminists would say temper tantrums are "manly" just like antisemites would say that cheating and manipulation is "Jewish". Yet one doesn't have to dislike men, or Jews, in order to dislike temper tantrums or manipulation, respectively. But if they don't hate men, or Jews, then they would have to come up with other reasons why they don't like tantrums and cheating. And thats where it gets complicated: instead of simply universally admitting that those things are bad, different people come up with different excuses and then the people that do those things just keep facing "bad luck": when they are talking to feminists, oooppppssss they came across as manly, when they are talking to antisemities, ooopppppssss they came across as Jews, when they are talking to Jews, ooppppsssss they came across as gentiles, and list goes on and on; lots of oooppppssssies that keep unpleasnat people from ever winning. 

Oh here is one mroe example, and this time its not even a joke but something I actually saw. I read some stormfront members justifying why they don't like gays because homosexuality is a Jewish propaganda. But then there are Christian Zionists who don't like gays either, but obviously they have to come up with other reason as to why not since obviously they like Jews. But that doesn't stop people at stormfront from saying they hate homosexuality because its "Jewish". Same goes with temper tantrums and manliness. Even though nobody likes tantrums, that still doesn't stop feminists from saying they don't like them because its manly.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

causalset said:


> From the fact that when American girls totally ignore me I am told that man should talk first. Yet girls don't ignore the other guys, they only ignore me. So if I were to buy the excuse "man is to talk first" then I guess I am more manly than other guys  since females have better social skills and so lack of social skills makes me manly. I mean how else would you explain why everyone tells me "men is to talk first" when it is so clearly that my lack of social skills is the reason?!
> 
> Well lack of social skills when it comes to other girls plays the same logical role as temper tantrum when it comes to this particular girl. In case of other girls, they don't talk to me because I lack social skills but I am told they don't talk to me because its man's job to talk first. Then this particular girl stopped talking to me because I threw temper tantrum. Well, since her behavior towards me is IDENTICAL to every other girl, it is only left to repeat the same old excuse people were telling me before: this one girl also doesn't talk to me because its man's job to talk first  And why did she only realized it after the tantrum? Well I cguess cause tantrum made me look manly


The logic was explained to you in a previous post.

Better social skills means just that - better. So if women are an 8 out of 10 in general, guys may be say a 6, and that 6 doesn't mean a complete lack, as in a 1 or zero. Golden State was better than Cleveland this year - that doesn't mean Cleveland has a complete lack of basketball skills.

They don't talk to you because you lack social skills and dissect every interaction to the nth degree. Forget the "man talks first stuff" - do you really think that she'll find you attractive because of that? It's the overall impression you make. And if your thinking during these interactions is anything like your thoughts here that is not going to create a good impression.

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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

causalset said:


> while in feminist America they say "screaming is manly and manly is bad".





causalset said:


> Yeah, except that those opinions have infected a lot of American women, although they don't even realize it. And thats the point of over-analyzing: it uncovers the implicit assumptions people are making without noticing them.


Dude. Literally *no one* has said that but you. Probably ever. Those opinions have infected *you*. For some bizarre, inexplicable reason... and unfortunately for everyone else, you _do_ "realize" it. At incredible length. :blank _What even..._



Sheska said:


> How you doin? :wink2:


This made me laugh way harder than it should have...

How did I even get here? :um


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I think I understand what you mean now:
















Although also sometimes:


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

causalset said:


> From the fact that when American girls totally ignore me I am told that man should talk first. Yet girls don't ignore the other guys, they only ignore me. So if I were to buy the excuse "man is to talk first" then I guess I am more manly than other guys  since females have better social skills and so lack of social skills makes me manly. I mean how else would you explain why everyone tells me "men is to talk first" when it is so clearly that my lack of social skills is the reason?!
> 
> Well lack of social skills when it comes to other girls plays the same logical role as temper tantrum when it comes to this particular girl. In case of other girls, they don't talk to me because I lack social skills but I am told they don't talk to me because its man's job to talk first. Then this particular girl stopped talking to me because I threw temper tantrum. Well, since her behavior towards me is IDENTICAL to every other girl, it is only left to repeat the same old excuse people were telling me before: this one girl also doesn't talk to me because its man's job to talk first  And why did she only realized it after the tantrum? Well I cguess cause tantrum made me look manly


I literally got a headache reading this. Like literally.


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## thomasjune (Apr 7, 2012)

Wait, So you threw a temper tantrum in front of your MOM and some random girl yet you're still single? If that's not enough to prove how manly you are then I don't know what's wrong with this world/people.
Maybe try yelling at another man (in the real world) and throwing all those F-bombs around and see how that works out for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

Ai said:


> Dude. Literally *no one* has said that but you. Probably ever.


There were plenty of people that told me to start approaching women first, and some of the people who told me that happened to also admit I make bad impression, yet they told me to approach women first anyway.

If you think this thread is absurd, hopefully you agree that the advice that they gave me to approach women first is absurd as well.


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## caveman8 (Sep 3, 2012)

nothing else said:


> I literally got a headache reading this. Like literally.


The lengthy paragraphs alone are enough to do that 

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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

*Meltdowns in Adults with Aspergers & High-Functioning Autism*

Can an adult with Aspergers or High Functioning Autism have a meltdown just like a child with the same disorder?

The answer is 'yes' - but the adult's meltdown-behavior looks a bit different than a child's. Under severe enough stress, any normally calm and collected individual may become "out-of-control" - even to the point of violence. But some individuals experience repeated meltdowns in which tension mounts until there is an explosive release.

The adult version of a meltdown may include any of the following (just to name a few):
aggressive behavior in which the individual reacts grossly out of proportion to the circumstance
angry outbursts that involve throwing or breaking objects 
banging your head
crying
domestic abuse
pacing back and forth
quitting your job
road rage
talking to yourself
threatening others
walking out on your spouse or partner
yelling and screaming

On the mild end of the continuum, the adult in meltdown may simply say some things that are overly critical and disrespectful, thus ultimately destroying the relationship with the other party (or parties) in many cases. On the more extreme end of the continuum, the adult in meltdown may attack others and their possessions, causing bodily injury and property damage. In both examples, the adult often later feels remorse, regret or embarrassment.

Meltdowns, usually lasting 5 to 20 minutes, may occur in clusters or be separated by weeks or months in which the Aspergers adult maintains his/her composure. Meltdown episodes may be preceded or accompanied by:
Chest tightness
Headache or a feeling of pressure in the head
Increased energy
Irritability
Palpitations
Paranoia
Rage
Tingling
Tremors

A number of factors increase the likelihood of experiencing a meltdown:
A history of physical abuse or bullying: "Aspies" who were abused as kids have an increased risk for frequent meltdowns as adults.
A history of substance abuse: Aspies who abuse drugs or alcohol have an increased risk for frequent meltdowns.
Age: Meltdowns are most common in Aspies in their late teens to mid 20s.
Being male: Aspergers men are far more likely to meltdown than women.
Having another mental health problem: Aspies with other mental illnesses (e.g., depression, anxiety disorders) are more likely to have meltdowns.

The meltdown is not always directed at others. Aspergers adults who experience meltdowns are also at significantly increased risk of harming themselves, either with intentional injuries or suicide attempts. Those who are also addicted to drugs or alcohol have a greatest risk of harming themselves.

Aspergers adults who experience meltdowns are often perceived by others as "always being angry." Other complications may include job loss, school suspension, divorce, auto accidents, and even incarceration.

If you're concerned because you're having repeated meltdowns, talk with your doctor or make an appointment with someone who specializes in treating adults on the spectrum (e.g., a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, etc.).

Here's how to prepare for an appointment with a professional:
Make a list of all medications as well as any vitamins or supplements that you're taking.
Write down any symptoms you're experiencing, including any that may seem unrelated to the reason for which you scheduled the appointment.
Write down key personal information, including any major stresses or recent life changes.
Write down questions to ask your doctor. Preparing a list of questions can help you make sure you cover everything that's important to you. 
Don't hesitate to ask questions during your appointment at any time that you don't understand something.

There's no one treatment that's best for Aspergers adults who experience meltdowns. Treatment generally includes medication and individual or group therapy. Individual or group therapy sessions can be very helpful. A commonly used type of therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, helps Aspergers adults identify which situations or behaviors may trigger a meltdown. In addition, this type of therapy teaches Aspies how to manage their anger and control their typically inappropriate response using relaxation techniques. Cognitive behavioral therapy that combines cognitive restructuring, coping skills training, and relaxation training has the most promising results.

Unfortunately, many Aspergers adults who experience meltdowns don't seek treatment. If you're involved in a relationship with an Aspie, it's important that you take steps to protect yourself and your kids. Any emotional and/or physical abuse that may be occurring is not your fault. If you see that a situation is escalating, and you suspect your partner may be on the verge of a meltdown, try to safely remove yourself and your kids from the area.

http://www.adultaspergerschat.com/2012/09/meltdowns-in-adults-with-aspergers-high.html


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

LOL @ this thread... :lol :haha

Thanks @scarpia


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