# Homeopathy



## Ivan AG

All the evidence and clinical trials are against it, and yet my family and relatives continue to believe in it.

Heck, I see entire pharmacies selling only homeopathic products.

Why?

Shouldn't the evidence be enough to close down these stores and make people shun this practice?

My parents are into this as well and are about to purchase homeopathic drops for my sister's stuffy nose in a few days.

I remember taking Oscillococcinum as a small child when the first signs of the flu were present.

It was supposed to reduce the duration of the illness and make me feel better faster than conventional medicine.

There is still a pack in the medicine closet.

Any thoughts on this?


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## Duke of Prunes

It's a load of rubbish.


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## JimmyDeansRetartedCousin

Ivan AG said:


> Heck, I see entire pharmacies selling only homeopathic products.


An entire pharmacy stocked with homeopathy medecine is not a pharmacy, it's a homeopathic remedy shop :b

The placebo effect can be a powerful thing, just don't use it for anything more serious than a runny nose. There are more effective remedies available from your pharmacy, but in all honesty a box of tissues and a tub of Vicks is the only thing that's going to be of any use.

It has been recently hailed as not being eligible for funding by the NHS, but this is only because they couldn't' find _any_ scientific evidence to prove it does anything more than create a placebo effect.

I wouldn't buy into it too much, and don't ever take advice from a homeopath.


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## scriabin221

The people who sell homeopathy are just as bad as the big pharma companies who try to convince people they need pills for things that are completely normal. Probably worse, actually because they're taking money from sick gullible people. They try to sell cures for cancer and convince them they don't need chemo and instead to take their snake oil. That's just wrong.


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## FairleighCalm

Why would you believe "evidence" that challenges the billion dollar status quo? And what do you mean by homeopathy? That is a widely used term.


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## Hello22

I dont buy into homeopathy at all. I get the whole 'prevention better than cure', but thats all to do with eating better, sleeping better and doing exercise. 

All those 'natural medicines' that homeopathists provide are a waste of time. I tried alot of that stuff, cost me a fortune, and it either a) didnt work b) gave me a placebo effect which i could have done without spending money. 

Also i'd be sceptical about what exactly is contained in these types of medicines as they are highly unregulated.

I would never use these to try and treat depression or any serious condition, it can give false hope, and can seriously harm the person in the end. 
People might not like taking pharmaceutical drugs, but using these as a substitute is a bad option. Know many people who relapsed into manic depression after trying this route.


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## Ivan AG

FairleighCalm said:


> Why would you believe "evidence" that challenges the billion dollar status quo? And what do you mean by homeopathy? That is a widely used term.


I don't understand the question.

The evidence against homeopathy is presented in clinical trials which show no benefit other than the placebo effect.

What is homeopathy? There is a single definition of this word.

"The treatment of disease by minute doses of natural substances that in a healthy person would produce symptoms of disease."

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...4Lou5hAe8i-H4Cw&ved=0CBsQkQ4&biw=1280&bih=838


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## Ivan AG

JimmyDeansRetartedCousin said:


> An entire pharmacy stocked with homeopathy medecine is not a pharmacy, it's a homeopathic remedy shop :b


I think you get the point quite well.


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## penguin runner

Homeopathy, in the sense of using substances so diluted as to basically not even be detectable, seems like utter nonsense to me. It seems like a way for snake oil salesmen to make money off gullible, sick, ignorant people. And takes money away from real scientifically supported treatments. Giving people false hope is not something I'm fond of. Or over charging people for placebos.

And for anyone that hasn't seen this, it's a pretty funny sketch about homeopathy that seems to express my views of it quite well.


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## WeiEast

I think it's funny to "overdose" on homeopathic medicines in front of believers. You can take tons of it with no problems (obviously) and it should bring the point home that they really do nothing for your body.

Just make sure they really are 100% homeopathic before swallowing a lot of them!
Make sure to check the active ingredients and see that there's really nothing in it first. 




They try to sell cures for cancer and convince them they don't need chemo and instead to take their snake oil. That's just wrong.
----
Yeah, that's where it stops being funny and starts being seriously depressing.


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## CeilingStarer

I tried it for sinus/throat/cough/allergy problems I have (along with naturopathy) and got nowhere - not that I've gotten anywhere with Western medicine either.


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## Revenwyn

Keep in mind that homeopathy and herbal remedies are two different things though. Homeopathy uses very little of the active ingredient, and it's mostly water. Herbal remedies have to be carefully studied and monitored according to dosage, but in many cases they do actually work.

What many medicines do is they take the active chemical that produces the desired affect and make it synthetic in a lab according to dosages. While it might seem affective many times what ends up happening is that they take a solitary chemical out of the plant and leave the other chemical properties that help make the plant usable as medicine. For instance an herb can have pain relieving properties and taken out of its natural form and put in a pill it could cause some stomach issues but if you take it in its natural form the stomach issues may not be there.

But yeah homeopathy is crock.

http://www.realage.com/soothe-stress/mind-and-mood/herbal-supplements-and-homeopathy


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## fredbloggs02

Homeopathy clinics grant their patients far more care and attention than any other Westernized doctors could, somtimes that's all patients needed to feel better and the dilute water to one molecule equivelant to the seven seas is perhaps a mere prop for the talking cure, perhaps not. I'm not interested wether a tube glows in the dark under laboratory conditions, I care that people feel at ease with themselves. A lot of "alternative medicine" came from China originally, a country with culture farther reaching than the American spray-everywhere lotion conductive vulgarity of threepenny infectious history ingrained in everything today, bobbing clumsily afloat a sea of wild wilderness lol. I don't know if they'd make pretenses as to a cure for cancer, but I do know when you concentrate on some milder pain it relinquishes itself and even having someone to hear you in intense pain is calming. Even underqualified, South Afrikan exchange student pondering ladies bosoms attention, this I know by experience having cut off the end of my finger in an art class, even though 9 is probably a little bit young to appreciate such immediate pomp lol.


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## Duke of Prunes

If 'care' alone works, then there's nothing more at work than the placebo effect, which is worthless when it comes to treating real diseases.


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## fredbloggs02

Duke of Prunes said:


> If 'care' alone works, then there's nothing more at work than the placebo effect, which is worthless when it comes to treating real diseases.


I don't know about that, I think an atmosphere will kill you just as save a life than arid doctors who haven't the time to care. I know from my experience of Shiatsu some of the techniques spark off your adrenaline glands, divert energy and increase a flow of endorphins. Perhaps cure is too mechanical, but save. You can save someone's life by relaxing their muscles in a car crash, just as you can rejuvinate a body fighting anxiety as well as disease or infection, ease their blood to flow and speed up the body defences in recovering from illness. I use it all the time to patch up injuries, to aid sleep. As for cancer, who does but impede imminent deterioration to death?

Whoever suggested homeopathy as well as the treatments noone understands in the West that nevertheless save lives rooted in tcm exclusively, divorced from ordinary medicine? Not I. I sometimes pass those small, multifarious, parlours you see in shopping arcades for acupressure, shiatsu, acupuncture, that traditional fire massage and all that jazz. It's sad that noone trusts them enough to go in, noone trusts them even enough for a relaxing massage(whatever they call it lol) which is to me symptomatic of the tempestuous blizzard within culture in America/ England, though England especially because, though we are inert we are at least depressed enough by it to repulse it once in a while lol. Usually for some darker reverberative shudder, but never a flaming massage! Noone wants lifting, we are all masochists who seek nothing more than our place as the single rivet of the bridge people tread over despondently, to deny ourselves even the deepest descent to purest stricken darkness. Lifting our detatched arms, we'd want to shout if we could, it would lessen such painful ascent meandering, though in vain, succumb to plagued insides, outstretched rumbling, shuddering, growth iced rush of silence...


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## PaysageDHiver

In my view, James Randi has said everything that's worth saying about homeopathy: 



 Hysterical.


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## THEuTASTEsOFeINKd

You know there's something fishy when people say that water has memory properties...


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## Dark Alchemist

Homeopathy is a load of crap.


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## Artificial Intelligence

Dark Alchemist said:


> Homeopathy is a load of crap.


Placebos aren't crap.


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## penguin runner

Dark Alchemist said:


> Homeopathy is a load of crap.


But it's diluted so that no particles of the crap are actually left for the end user to notice.


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## penguin runner

THEuTASTEsOFeINKd said:


> You know there's something fishy when people say that water has memory properties...


Research on the intelligence of water got Jacques Benveniste not one, but TWO (2!) Ig Noble prizes.

That's pretty impressive if you ask me. /sarcasm

http://improbable.com/2011/05/05/all-wet-benveniste-explains-it-to-you/


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## Dark Alchemist

Artificial Intelligence said:


> Placebos aren't crap.


Two different things. And yes homeopathy is a load of steaming crap.


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## Artificial Intelligence

I merely meant that, although homeopathy itself is not a viable method of treatment, it can still be used to engender noticeable improvement in the patient.


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## pita

I used to have to sell the stuff at my old work. I don't think I was ever very convincing.


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## Resonance

To paraphrase Tim Minchin:

If water has memory, and this memory is sufficient to remember a molecule or two of garlic extract or what have you, then how come it manages to forget all the poo it's had in it?


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## stylicho

All the prescription drug sellers on here like Duke of Prunes and Belshazzar will call it a load of rubbish because they have a profit motive to maintain. I have no profit motive. And from my experience I will say neither that it works or it doesn't since I haven't tried a lot of homeopathic. I'm more of an herbalist. I do have a lot of faith in the power of herbs to cure maladies. I'm not saying prescription drugs aren't needed but should be used more as a last resort when everything else has failed.


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## stylicho

> "The treatment of disease by minute doses of natural substances that in a healthy person would produce symptoms of disease."


Actually, this does work for immunity purposes. From my own observations I've seen the poison oak/ivy homeopathic work for somebody else. It's akin to taking small doses of rattlesnake poison. You will become immune to it after awhile.


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## lonelyjew

stylicho said:


> All the prescription drug sellers on here like Duke of Prunes and Belshazzar will call it a load of rubbish because they have a profit motive to maintain. I have no profit motive. And from my experience I will say neither that it works or it doesn't since I haven't tried a lot of homeopathic. I'm more of an herbalist. I do have a lot of faith in the power of herbs to cure maladies. I'm not saying prescription drugs aren't needed but should be used more as a last resort when everything else has failed.


I find it ironic that you're claiming others are biased an you're not lol. At least they might have some sort of scientifically based understand of what is going on.



stylicho said:


> Actually, this does work for immunity purposes. From my own observations I've seen the poison oak/ivy homeopathic work for somebody else. It's akin to taking small doses of rattlesnake poison. You will become immune to it after awhile.


Poison ivy is delayed hypersensitivity IE it's your immune response to the poison ivy which causes all of the negative effects. Those who don't have an immune response don't get the negative effects.....


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## stylicho

> I find it ironic that you're claiming others are biased an you're not lol. At least they might have some sort of scientifically based understand of what is going on.


Science my *** . What they have an understanding of is what they've been taught. Not what truth they have searched for. Big difference. Science taught me about electrons. Science didn't explain to me how to tie two wires together. Some of the best evidence is gathered through observation. And money has a big influence on whether people have biases. I have no skin in the game.


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## Dark Alchemist

stylicho said:


> All the prescription drug sellers on here like Duke of Prunes and Belshazzar will call it a load of rubbish because they have a profit motive to maintain. I have no profit motive. And from my experience I will say neither that it works or it doesn't since I haven't tried a lot of homeopathic. I'm more of an herbalist. I do have a lot of faith in the power of herbs to cure maladies. I'm not saying prescription drugs aren't needed but should be used more as a last resort when everything else has failed.


Homeopathy =/= natural medicines.

My mother uses ginger as a medicinal herb, and has many effective uses. But homeopathy wants me to believe a sliver of ginger in water will be more effective than an entire ginger root.

"Alternative health" industries have become highly profitable in recent years, raking in huge amounts of cash.


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## Godless1

Yup, it's total crap. It doesn't even qualify as science.


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## scriabin221

stylicho said:


> Actually, this does work for immunity purposes. From my own observations I've seen the poison oak/ivy homeopathic work for somebody else. It's akin to taking small doses of rattlesnake poison. You will become immune to it after awhile.


Whoopdee****ingdoo. You've seen one person not get a rash. There have been controlled studies on homeopathy and all the evidence seem to point to it having a similar effect to water.


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## stylicho

> Whoopdee****ingdoo. You've seen one person not get a rash. There have been controlled studies on homeopathy and all the evidence seem to point to it having a similar effect to water.


Like I originally said, I'm not either positive or negative that homeopathy works. I stated that immunity can be built up from small doses. That is all.


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## Duke of Prunes

stylicho said:


> All the prescription drug sellers on here like Duke of Prunes and Belshazzar will call it a load of rubbish because they have a profit motive to maintain. I have no profit motive. And from my experience I will say neither that it works or it doesn't since I haven't tried a lot of homeopathic. I'm more of an herbalist. I do have a lot of faith in the power of herbs to cure maladies. I'm not saying prescription drugs aren't needed but should be used more as a last resort when everything else has failed.


I'm a 'prescription drug seller' because I don't blindly follow old, debunked fields of medicine or trends started by con artists or chemophobics that have never been successfully proven to be efficacious by any credible studies? Good.

If a few idiots with chemophobia ('OMGZ if it's made in a lab from precursors that are toxic on their own it must be bad LOL I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CHEMISTRY LOL ALHERPATIVE DERPICINE') or delusions about 'BIG PHARMA' trying to take over the world would rather volunteer to be pincushions, drink overpriced water or eat a bunch of plants that have almost no therapeutic effect at non-toxic doses etc, it's their money to waste.


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## lonelyjew

Heh, I think this video is very appropriate to this silly debate:



pointy said:


>


It's funny how ironically closed minded anti scientific people are


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## stylicho

> I'm a 'prescription drug seller' because I don't blindly follow old, debunked fields of medicine or trends started by con artists or chemophobics that have never been successfully proven to be efficacious by any credible studies?


You're not a prescription drug seller. You're a prescription drug pusher. Reason being you're always coming to the defense of prescription drugs anytime somebody on here complains about them. Plus, you're on a website where there is a high concentration of prescription drug users. If I were in your shoes I would also like to maintain my clientele. Big money in it.
What are these credible studies you often brag about? They wouldn't have any connections to the prescription drug companies now would they? I'm sure fish oil was recently considered an "old wives tale" also. Too bad for your side the benefits of fish oil were too verifiable even by the untrained eye of people who couldn't pass chemistry 101. So what do you guys do? You create a drug that resembles fish oil :lol hahaha. http://www.lovaza.com/ What the **** is that ****? I mean if fish oil is available do we really need a drug that resembles fish oil?


> eat a bunch of plants that have almost no therapeutic effect at non-toxic doses


I'm willing to bet I can find numerous studies that prove many of the benefits of these "plants". It's up to you if you find them "credible".


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## stylicho

> "Alternative health" industries have become highly profitable in recent years, raking in huge amounts of cash.


Alternative health industry is really an oxymoron since there is no industry on what can be had in nature. For example, let's use fish oil again. You can get fish oil via pill or you can just eat a lot of fish. Or take garlic. There is garlic in pill form or you can eat a clove of garlic. Even the vitamin market can't be cornered since you can feasibly get all the vitamins you need from the food you eat. The prescription drug industry on the other hand is monopolistic in nature.


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## lonelyjew

stylicho said:


> I'm willing to bet I can find numerous studies that prove many of the benefits of these "plants". It's up to you if you find them "credible".


This thread isn't about "natural" medicines though, it's about a flawed pseudoscience which has long been debunked. Fish oil, green tea, turmeric, and various other natural substances are good for you, and can be beneficial, however that doesn't somehow make drinking pure water (that is basically what you're doing when you take homeopathic "medicines") under the guise that there is something in it a cure for anything but thirst.

Can you appreciate what a 10^-45 dilution is? To dilute a single molecule of Urushoil to that miniscule level, it would take something like one thousand times the water we have here on the Earth. That would be so much water, it would have a mass about 1/4 that of the Earth, and more than 10 times the moons mass in water. That's one single molecule of that substance in all that water btw, not a gram, not a nanogram, but a single molecule. That means, the chance of you getting even a molecule of that subtance in one bottle is probably less likely than winning two lotteries and getting hit by lighting on the same day.


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## stylicho

> This thread isn't about "natural" medicines though, it's about a flawed pseudoscience which has long been debunked. Fish oil, green tea, turmeric, and various other natural substances are good for you


I agree. I was just contradicting what DukeofPrunes said. He went on a tangent and left the original discussion of homeopathy.


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## lonelyjew

Oh, my bad . I was running back and forth from this forum and a thing I had set up in my lab. I guess my posting was sub par, lets hope my maxiprep wasn't .


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## Dark Alchemist

stylicho said:


> Alternative health industry is really an oxymoron since there is no industry on what can be had in nature.


Wrong. A huge market has been set up on 'natural' supplements (just look at the shelves for supplements at a Whole Foods or such. Half of them won't work.) and on junk like homeopathic remedies.

Certain plants are well known to have medicinal properties, after all that is where many modern drugs are derived from to begin with. I pointed out my mother uses several herbs for medicine. But once again, homeopathy =/= natural.

I think it would be good for you too see the previously posted mini-documentary:



Godless1 said:


> Yup, it's total crap. It doesn't even qualify as science.


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## stylicho

> Wrong. A huge market has been set up on 'natural' supplements


I don't dispute that. The thing is a consumer doesn't have to buy from that market when they can grow it or buy the plant at the local grocer. Ever see the herb basil, dill, or your mother's ginger being sold in the walmart refrigerated section normally where you buy lettice?


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## Dark Alchemist

stylicho said:


> I don't dispute that. The thing is a consumer doesn't have to buy from that market when they can grow it or buy the plant at the local grocer. Ever see the herb basil, dill, or your mother's ginger being sold in the walmart refrigerated section normally where you buy lettice?


My point was not about natural herbs, it was about the concept that a sliver of basil or dill or ginger diluted in water would be stronger than the plant itself.


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## Neptunus

... is expensive poop.

And this is coming from someone who took a homeopathy course in college.


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## Sunshine009

I don't know much about it. I take herbs usually. Once I took a homeopathic remedy for vaginitis (urinary infection) and it did work, in a couple of hours, when the regular stuff from the drug store did not work, and I kept it and it worked the next three times I needed it. It worked within the 1st or 2nd dose each time. Now I avoid refined sugar binges.http://www.hylands.com/products/vaginitis.php This was the stuff. Amazing.


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## stylicho

> ... is expensive poop. And this is coming from someone who took a homeopathy course in college.


What's your fascination with poop lol


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## Neptunus

^ I just like the sound of the word. POOOOOOOOOP! 

That, and it's such a fitting description for so many things!


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## stylicho

^suuuuurrrrreeeee


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## xxLambyxx

Apart from the placebo effect i cant really see how it could help physically abd think most of its crap.

(though i was once given a candle from a homeopathic nut for my headaches that i kept on getting, and it smelled _amazing_

Apart from the fact that it pleased my nostrils, it wasbt much good... And it made me feel sick after a couple of days... It smelled overbaringly sweet

However, i really get annoyed when people get homeopathy (candles and ****) and actual proper natural remedies that actually work (and are where our tablets and medicines came from) mixed up.

I was out at the park walking the dog with a friend and she had a headache and didnt have any asprin on her (shes allergic to paracetamol) and so i told her she could chew some willow and she laughed and said "im not in to all that homeopathic ****, none of that crap works you know".

I actually had a hard time convincin her that it contained asprin -_-

I try to take natural remedies after seeing that victorian medicine program on tv.

I cant remember what it was called, but they showed where our medicine comes from and tried them all out over a series to see what the results were etc and compared it to taking tablets.

When i can be bothered i look for the natural stuff (only if it has been proven to work etc).
When i cant i reach for the tablets and swallow some pills

Most of the time i cba :L


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## ChocolateCake

My mother also thinks that homeopathy = natural stuff. I don't know why they do that because it just make them look stupid.
Natural stuff = proven scientifically in a double blind experiment with placebo control = ie. works, more than a placebo would
Real homeopathy = never proven scientifically = a way for people to feel good in a world which is made for them, doctors can't cure everything, everybody will die from something. People don't accept that and rather believe in a compelling lie


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## ugh1979

Homeopathy is effective in some due to a powerful placebo effect from the long empathetic consultation.

There's zero scientific evidence for it being effective in any way other than placebo.


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