# Moods & Exercise



## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

OK so I had a session with my therapist a few days ago. We spoke about exercise and I was totally confused. This happens a lot when someone tries to explain some to me. My brain just doesn’t seem to work. I usually just nod & pretend to understand and then go away and learn it in my own space and at my one time. 

So anyway, right now I am trying to work out what he was trying to tell me.. he was trying to warn me about certain exercise methods. Like I mentioned, I was pretty confused so I may have taken some out of context. He waffled about aerobic vs anaerobic...I think he mentioned dopamine. Anyway, I think the gist of what he was saying was that I should steer away from any adrenaline (or maybe endorphine??) inducing exercise. He is a clinical psychologist so I’m assuming there is some well known theory about this. 

Been really depressed lately haven’t had the will to do anything at all so yesterday I forced myself and went for a workout (first time in ages) I intended it to be a quick & easy just to ease back into it. Did some easy stationary bike riding then I couldn’t help myself and had a go at the heavy bag and unleashed fury. I have to say it felt great. I got a real buzz (bordering on mania)from it which felt amazing considering the dense fog I’ve been stuck in lately. For the whole day I was buzzing but one thing I noticed was that my anxiety was back. When I felt within the fog of depression the anxiety was gone. 

Perhaps this manic buzz that I felt was what he was trying to warn me about?

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has had experience or information on how exercise can affect moods?


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Oh well... no response so I went and did some online research and will reply to my own post :roll

Briefly, here's what I found...

Different intensities of workouts create different neurochemical responses.

The 4 main ones that effect mood are:

Serotonin (lifts depression, elevates mood, levels can become depleted with stress or anxiety)
Epinephrine (aka adrenaline is responsible for the fight or flight response, occurs when stressed, increased heart rate, high blood pressure. The effects of epinephrine can be felt with daily stressful activities, like juggling with multiple tasks, driving in traffic, running late etc. Epinephrine levels can be depleted when stressed or worn out.)
Dopamine (responsible for sleep and waking cycles. Dopamine also has an impact on serotonin levels. Dopamine levels are depleted with stress/anxiety/trauma)
Endorphins (Affects pain threshold, more endorphins means the less pain is felt)
High Intensity or explosive workouts (frequent starting and stopping) using fast twitch muscle fibres like power lifting, sprinting, plyometrics etc create an increase in Epinephrine. Dopamine can also be affected which is why its best not to do intense workouts too close to bed time.

Low to moderate consistent intensity workouts using slow twitch muscles fibres like long distance running, hiking, swimming, yoga etc. create a rise in serotonin levels and can cause a decrease in epinephrine levels.

Endorphins are increased by either type of workout.

Based on this I'd say that if a person is stressed and has anxiety, high intensity workouts might not be the best thing?


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

Shredder said:


> OK so I had a session with my therapist a few days ago. We spoke about exercise and I was totally confused. This happens a lot when someone tries to explain some to me. My brain just doesn't seem to work. I usually just nod & pretend to understand and then go away and learn it in my own space and at my one time.
> 
> So anyway, right now I am trying to work out what he was trying to tell me.. he was trying to warn me about certain exercise methods. Like I mentioned, I was pretty confused so I may have taken some out of context. He waffled about aerobic vs anaerobic...I think he mentioned dopamine. Anyway, I think the gist of what he was saying was that I should steer away from any adrenaline (or maybe endorphine??) inducing exercise. He is a clinical psychologist so I'm assuming there is some well known theory about this.
> 
> ...





Shredder said:


> Oh well... no response so I went and did some online research and will reply to my own post :roll
> 
> Briefly, here's what I found...
> 
> ...


i do morning cardio every day after reading this book. the chapters on stress depression anxiety should change perspectives in your life. in paperback or audio book.

http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113506


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

I think transient increases in neurotransmitters as a result of exercise, whether endurance or anaerobic were never important for me, even if they might have given me some temporary anxiety relief. I find that I'm very shallow. If I look better, more ripped and more muscular, my anxiety goes down and I feel way better. And the best method for me was strength training and watching my diet (decreasing total caloric intake). I really don't care about yoga, breathing, aerobics, etc. If I see no physical change in my appearance both with respect to fat loss and muscle gain, I think it's a waste of time. Reading books on anxiety relief or seeing therapists also take second seat to physical appearance. I guess I'm very shallow and physically obsessed. I'd rather be anxious and look like a stud versus being calm and look like a dud. I've always been like this since I was a kid.


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## Bunyip (Feb 6, 2012)

This was actually quite helpful to me, so thankies. <3


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## Albert125 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks for sharing


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## merryk (Dec 25, 2008)

Kon said:


> If I look better, more ripped and more muscular, my anxiety goes down and I feel way better.


^ I feel this way too


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

since starting this i no longer experience depression. this is just one of many thing i do i like to use an attack things from all angles as possible approach. untill it really affects your life alot of people wont go to such lengths.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

the author giving a live presentation.


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## Pandemic (Jan 6, 2012)

Excersise has really helped me, I was always skeptical about the benefits but since getting into a routine of walking I couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm fitter, have more agility, feel better about myself and future and thoroughly enjoy the walk (Do 2 hours each night).


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Kon said:


> I think transient increases in neurotransmitters as a result of exercise, whether endurance or anaerobic were never important for me, even if they might have given me some temporary anxiety relief. I find that I'm very shallow. If I look better, more ripped and more muscular, my anxiety goes down and I feel way better. And the best method for me was strength training and watching my diet (decreasing total caloric intake). I really don't care about yoga, breathing, aerobics, etc. If I see no physical change in my appearance both with respect to fat loss and muscle gain, I think it's a waste of time. Reading books on anxiety relief or seeing therapists also take second seat to physical appearance. I guess I'm very shallow and physically obsessed. I'd rather be anxious and look like a stud versus being calm and look like a dud. I've always been like this since I was a kid.


This is really interesting. I think Im the oposite to this. Ive been training for ages now (over 20 years). Worked really hard and got in shape but then I was too scared to actually show anyone. I couldn't stand the thought of people looking at me judging me. Also I would hate myself for being shallow and feeling the need to validate myself physically. I would wear long tops and pants even on the hottest days as I didnt want people to look at me. I wanted to be humble but that's impossible when you hate yourself as much as I did (still do at times but trying not to think like that anymore). Probably sounds weird but I created an endless trap for myself in that no matter what I did it wasn't going to end well! :bash
I have a ectomorph frame and tried hard to get bigger. Eventually I just wore out mentally & physically. Now I just train for fitness and try to be happy with the way I am. I dont know if I had a form of body dismorphia ... maybe unrelenting high standards as that effects me in many other areas of life as well. Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts... I find it great to hear other perspectives.


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Pandemic said:


> Excersise has really helped me, I was always skeptical about the benefits but since getting into a routine of walking I couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm fitter, have more agility, feel better about myself and future and thoroughly enjoy the walk (Do 2 hours each night).


 2 hours a night.. Thats awesome! Exersize has been the one constant in my life. Recently I stopped (for about a month) but that for me was the straw that broke the camels back. I feel into a deep depression... Im trying to claw my way out of it... at least Im back in training (as of last week) and hoping to get my motivation up enough to get my other interests back on track.


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> since starting this i no longer experience depression. this is just one of many thing i do i like to use an attack things from all angles as possible approach. untill it really affects your life alot of people wont go to such lengths.


Thanks for the links Doc! I'll definately check the book out. He spoke of a few things in the vids that Im really intereted in. I'll come back to watch the 50 minute one when I have some more time. When you say you hit depression from all angles, just curious, what else did you do? Did you use meds at all?


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## peanutbutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> i do morning cardio every day after reading this book. the chapters on stress depression anxiety should change perspectives in your life. in paperback or audio book.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113506


That was a really good video, thanks for sharing  I'm considering getting the book now


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

Shredder said:


> Thanks for the links Doc! I'll definately check the book out. He spoke of a few things in the vids that Im really intereted in. I'll come back to watch the 50 minute one when I have some more time. When you say you hit depression from all angles, just curious, what else did you do? Did you use meds at all?


its not just any exercise but cardio. i swore off med along time ago until a forum member mr.t told me about nardil back in the fall. nardil prevents your brain from breaking down the chemicals that are needed for normal brain functioning. plus raises gaba a chemical that acts sort of like the brakes for anxiety in mammals. a lack of that is directly linked to anxiety disorders. from what i read in that book about all the nuero stuff that happens in the short and long term nardil and cardo every morning seem like peanut butter and jelly.

with nardil and exercise i know my internal nuero stuff that contributes to anxiety is being well taken care off. then after that its the mental stuff learning how our minds work with thoughts and emotions and what can and cant be done with them. meditation and mindfulness sorts that out. and iam still reading about more stuff


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

peanutbutter said:


> That was a really good video, thanks for sharing  I'm considering getting the book now


i got the ebook but i cant crack it it. cause if i could i would have long copy and pasted probably that whole book here. it helps to mix it in with other goals. for example with really nice bodies. for alot of them that has to be maintained by proper diet and cardio. look at it from that angle and your killing two birds with one stone.


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## ainsleigh (Dec 6, 2011)

Yoga has been the thing that has helped me lift my mood (particularly mood swings) and lessens the intensity of anxiety. On days I did yoga, I could usually be sure I wasn't going to have a panic attack - particularly because i was in a good mood those days and also because I was more conscious of my breathing. I also have felt overall wellbeing after long periods of practice.


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> its not just any exercise but cardio.


 Yeah the info I found online pointed to that too.



Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> i swore off med along time ago until a forum member mr.t told me about nardil back in the fall. nardil prevents your brain from breaking down the chemicals that are needed for normal brain functioning. plus raises gaba a chemical that acts sort of like the brakes for anxiety in mammals. a lack of that is directly linked to anxiety disorders. from what i read in that book about all the nuero stuff that happens in the short and long term nardil and cardo every morning seem like peanut butter and jelly.


 Hmmm do you know if nardil anything like Xoloft? I have a bottle here for over a week but for whatever reason I cant bring myself to take it. I think in some way I feel like Im wussing out. When I kick this depression in the arse I want to feel like I did it face on. I woke this morning and thought enough is enough... EVERYTHING just feels like a burdon at the moment I have to take this stuff. So I'll take it and see what happens.



Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> with nardil and exercise i know my internal nuero stuff that contributes to anxiety is being well taken care off. then after that its the mental stuff learning how our minds work with thoughts and emotions and what can and cant be done with them. meditation and mindfulness sorts that out. and iam still reading about more stuff


I have the mental learning stuff in order.. done a lot of CBT and schema work. Mindfulness too but at the moment I have zero will to do any of that stuff. Anxiety is not a problem 'cause Im just avoiding everything. My workouts are all I have at the moment and I have to drag myself in for those. I guess I have the anxiety to look forward to once I start living again :um

Thanks for your post ... its given me a bit of clarity.


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

ainsleigh said:


> Yoga has been the thing that has helped me lift my mood (particularly mood swings) and lessens the intensity of anxiety. On days I did yoga, I could usually be sure I wasn't going to have a panic attack - particularly because i was in a good mood those days and also because I was more conscious of my breathing. I also have felt overall wellbeing after long periods of practice.


I've thought about yoga (my therapist suggested it to me). Im not sure its for me but I should check it out and see. I'd consider adding it to my current routine. Is it the type of thing you can do one day a week and gain benefits or do you have to do it more often? There is a place near where I live .. I think its called hathra yoga? Its "hot" yoga where the room is heated and you get a good sweat going.


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## peanutbutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> i got the ebook but i cant crack it it. cause if i could i would have long copy and pasted probably that whole book here. it helps to mix it in with other goals. for example with really nice bodies. for alot of them that has to be maintained by proper diet and cardio. look at it from that angle and your killing two birds with one stone.


I actually ended up buying this! It's really good motivation to exercise regularly.

I try to do cardio every other day anyway, but mainly for the anxiety controlling effects. That it helps me to enjoy cookies guilt free is kinda of a nice secondary bonus, but not enough to motivate me on it's own. To me the stress relief trumps all (I love the instant gratification  ), but this new research - it making you smarter and more focused - is even more a reason for me to keep it up on days when I'm not feeling anxious. The stuff they mention about it helping to build new memory pathways to deal with anxiety is SO on the money. Often times when I go running I'll start thinking of problem in a different, more positive way. And like someone else mentioned , the horrible mental fog evaporates.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

peanutbutter said:


> I actually ended up buying this! It's really good motivation to exercise regularly.
> 
> I try to do cardio every other day anyway, but mainly for the anxiety controlling effects. That it helps me to enjoy cookies guilt free is kinda of a nice secondary bonus, but not enough to motivate me on it's own. To me the stress relief trumps all (I love the instant gratification  ), but this new research - it making you smarter and more focused - is even more a reason for me to keep it up on days when I'm not feeling anxious. The stuff they mention about it helping to build new memory pathways to deal with anxiety is SO on the money. Often times when I go running I'll start thinking of problem in a different, more positive way. And like someone else mentioned , the horrible mental fog evaporates.












i have been posting this books for months nobody bothered to at least look at it. my life is complete.


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## ainsleigh (Dec 6, 2011)

Shredder said:


> I've thought about yoga (my therapist suggested it to me). Im not sure its for me but I should check it out and see. I'd consider adding it to my current routine. Is it the type of thing you can do one day a week and gain benefits or do you have to do it more often? There is a place near where I live .. I think its called hathra yoga? Its "hot" yoga where the room is heated and you get a good sweat going.


It is definitely something you can do just once a week to gain benefits. When I started yoga I didn't do it very often but I felt the benefits straight away, so I found myself wanting to do it more and more.

It can help you with your other exercise routines - the stretching, breathing techniques and flexibility will definitely benefit other forms of exercise.

I absolutely loved hot yoga. It was challenging at first. So you do need to give yourself time to ease into it. But wow it helped me with flexibility, I had more energy, and it helped me so much with anxiety.


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> i have been posting this books for months nobody bothered to at least look at it. my life is complete.


 Ive ordered my copy too


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

Shredder said:


> I would wear long tops and pants even on the hottest days as I didnt want people to look at me...I have a ectomorph frame and tried hard to get bigger. Eventually I just wore out mentally & physically. Now I just train for fitness and try to be happy with the way I am. I dont know if I had a form of body dismorphia ... maybe unrelenting high standards as that effects me in many other areas of life as well. Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts... I find it great to hear other perspectives.


Surprisingly, even though I think I pay attention to my physique/physical appearance, I also wear/wore long tops and especially long pants for most of my life. I also love loose-fitting clothes because of comfort. I think I just want to look good primarily for myself, not for other people? I'm my own worst critic, I think? I may have had mild BDD also. Or it could be vanity? If I look in the mirror and I see a small defect, I feel like crap. The reverse is also true. But I think I'm pretty objective.


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## peanutbutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Dr Hobo Scratch MD said:


> i have been posting this books for months nobody bothered to at least look at it. my life is complete.


Lol! I watched the google video too.

Almost everything the books says so far really resonates with me. I always sensed exercise made me feel less anxious but I gave up exercising for about 2 months last December, mainly because of stress at work (I was working long hours, was getting bullied by a couple of co-workers, it was hard to find time, got dark early etc etc). I convinced myself it would be better to take a break and just curl up infront of the TV ever night, now I think that was a BIG MISTAKE. I felt worse than ever, I ended up quitting that job in the in end. I might have quit anyway, but keeping up my exercise regime would have undoubtedly helped cope better with the whole situation.

Now I'm going to make sure I exercise religiously!

Btw the cat pope is awesome


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

Shredder said:


> Ive ordered my copy too


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD (Jun 24, 2011)

Shredder said:


> Ive ordered my copy too





peanutbutter said:


> Lol! I watched the google video too.
> 
> Almost everything the books says so far really resonates with me. I always sensed exercise made me feel less anxious but I gave up exercising for about 2 months last December, mainly because of stress at work (I was working long hours, was getting bullied by a couple of co-workers, it was hard to find time, got dark early etc etc). I convinced myself it would be better to take a break and just curl up infront of the TV ever night, now I think that was a BIG MISTAKE. I felt worse than ever, I ended up quitting that job in the in end. I might have quit anyway, but keeping up my exercise regime would have undoubtedly helped cope better with the whole situation.
> 
> ...


i salute the hell out of both of you !!!

seriously alot of people wouldnt dare to go to such lengths to help themselves far more easier to whine. iam all about stockpiling resources and this was a good one to add to that pile. if a lil cardio in the morning can make a difference in so many ways in the short term and long term and you have the conditions and disorders...wouldnt it make sense to throw that in your arsenal? when you can view it like brushing your teeth or bathing its not much of a hassle. i hated cardio but after i read that book doing that seemed to makes sense like installing toilets indoors. bought a bike off ebay 5 min after reading that last chapter that was important to me. i was recently doing an hour every morning but since iam back on hitting the weights i had to cut it down cause its just to taxing. but 30 - 40 minutes ppph easy no problem. i got a heart rate monitor off amazon so i can know where i need to be heart range wise cause at the start i was going way to fast and burning myself out. get a mp3 player and fill it with your fav albums and any new stuff you find you may like, it becomes enjoyable i actually look forward to it. put a fan a few feet in front of you it helps from overheating and exhausting yourself and keep water in arms reach very important to stay hydrated.


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## Piscesfish202 (Feb 12, 2012)

Excercise lifts your mood like getting out from under the covers in the morning.It just clears you up. I think excercise combined with yoga and meditation can be a real good way to live. I was really into this stuff last summer, I wish I hadn't let the winter bog me down so much. It's just great and everyone should strive to do it more. I probably wouldn't get so caught up in my own world if I let off some steam that way, it's just hard to get on a schedule with it, especially because I've always been a lazy musician and a curious person who's easily distracted.


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## janicedale (Mar 7, 2012)

Yoga used to help me to relax and pamper myself. This is a kind of therapy needed for a stress person like me such as at work, home. That is why I tend to yoga more often. All I need is a quiet place with nice ambiance and with scented candles. That makes my life easier by relaxing my mind and my body as well.


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