# Best drug nobody's ever heard of?



## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

We all know the ssri's and the Benzo's are the drugs that are pretty typically prescribed for the treatment of SA, worldwide. However, there seems to be a multitude of drugs out there that many doctors don't yet know to be effective in treating SA.

A good example of this is Adderall, in fact, it may even seem contradictory to many psychiatrists, since its a stimulant.

SO what drugs have YOU tried that you feel aren't getting enough respect?


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Mdma


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## martyboi (Sep 18, 2009)

The two drugs i take right now are definitely under-appreciated. Although, its probably best that they stay that way so they don't become controlled substances.

Tramadol (SNRI/mu-opiate agonist) - another drug that isn't recognized by psychiatrists enough. Most people classify it as a pain killer, and for that reason its just assumed that it is dangerous/counterproductive to take for emotional issues. this may be the case with opiates like hydro/oxycodone, but tramadol is an atypical opiate. It doesn't cause the inevitable addiction cycle that most opiates do, and lasts much longer so is better suited as an everyday solution. Certainly, people can become addicted to tramadol but people can also become addicted to paxil at a similar rate. atleast tramadol allows the option of not taking it everyday...so if one wants to avoid addiction. they can. i only take it 100mg - 3 times a week and its works wonders

Neurontin/Lyrica - A lot of people find that neurontin helps their anxiety/mood which is why it surprises me that its still an off-label use. I think its indicated for seizures, nerve pain. I take 1200mg twice/week and always have great success with it. Although if u want to take it everyday, thats usually fine except for the fact that u eventually get a tolerance.


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## BusterBluth (Sep 21, 2009)

martyboi, have you taken other mood stabilizing type drugs before (lithium, lamictal, etc)? If so, is what you get out of neurontin similar to that/better? How long have you been taking it? Any side effects? It's sorta surprising to hear that you only take it twice a week and have good results. I don't know much about it, but I looked around and saw that it has a half life of 5-7 hours... so idk. Thanks, -BB


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## martyboi (Sep 18, 2009)

i haven't taken any other mood stabilizers and i don't know how they compare but i know that lyrica and neurontin effect gaba transmission and this may be why people with anxiety get relief from them. Lithium, lamictal arent known to produce any euphoric or mood lifting effects, unlike neurontin. 

When my pdoc first prescribed neurontin, he prescribed it daily at 1200mg...but i noticed after two weeks that i wasn't really feeling it the way i felt it the first few times i took it and that really disappointed me...so after some experimentation i found that i could take it 2-3 times a week without the euphoric effects noticeably fading.

as far as side effects go...the only thing i've noticed is stimulation and hyperactivity...which isn't really a negative side effect IMO.


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## BusterBluth (Sep 21, 2009)

Interesting. 

I think lamictal is supposed to have a tendency to be slightly mood lifting and stabilizing (prevents 'depressive events'), whereas lithium is more mood deflating and stabilizing (prevents 'manic events'). 

I noticed either a very, very strong placebo effect when I started lamictal (and I know the starting dose is no where close to the theraputic dose) or a similar to what you described with neurontin lift to my mood that faded over time-- though is has done a good job of keeping depression away. Lamictal is not supposed to be stopped and started abruptly so I can't try taking it intermittently like neurontin, but perhaps if lamictal doesn't keep working I'll consider it for a switch. Thanks for the response.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

I've heard great things about Stabblon but have never used it due to the price and finding a reputable company to order it from.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Hands F'ing down, without a doubt: *low dose Psilocybin*










Psilocyban converts to psilocin in the human body and I beleive that it has enormous benefits. Granted tolerance develops after a single dose, the effects seem to last for several days, (about 3) and after these few days you can sucessfully dose again.

Peyote and LSD would also be equally viable options, as long as they are barely above threshold or sub-psychedelic. (higher doses may be way more fun or way more profound and moving, but they can actually exacerbate SA.)

Too bad they are illegal. Psyhedelic therapy and research was soooo very promising


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Low dose LSD makes me feel amazing, and I find it much more preferable to take a little slice of a blotter than to choke down some disgusting-tasting, dried out shrooms (or cacti, for that matter.) Also saves you the problem of nausea, as that plant material is a ***** to digest.

The first few days I was on Nardil, was actually very reminiscent of low-dose LSD for me (identical, in fact). I would walk around all day with a goofy grin on my face, always feeling like I was just on the brink of bursting into laughter, with an optimism and energy that didn't feel too stimulant-like all... it was more of a gentle energy that I don't think could possibly have provoked anxiety.

It's unfortunate that with psychedelics, tolerance is so insane, as otherwise low-dose, sub-psychedelic LSD might just be the perfect antidepressant. If the mechanism was at all similar, perhaps that's why the effect pooped out with Nardil so quickly.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Hmm, low doses of psychedelics never worked for me, i tried treshold Psilocybin, 2CI and 2CC doses. Treshold MDMA doses on the other hand..

Those who benefit from low doses of psychedelics can try daily doses of DMT, DMT hasnt got any tolerance issues unlike the other psychedelics.

Also are you guys sure tolerance builds fast to treshold doses like it does to normal doses? I've read about a few ppl that have been taking daily treshold doses of LSD/DMT for a pretty long time.

AMT also doesnt build a rapid tolerance, but this also is a very powerfull serotonin/dopamine releaser.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

BusterBluth said:


> martyboi, have you taken other mood stabilizing type drugs before (lithium, lamictal, etc)? If so, is what you get out of neurontin similar to that/better? How long have you been taking it? Any side effects? It's sorta surprising to hear that you only take it twice a week and have good results. I don't know much about it, but I looked around and saw that it has a half life of 5-7 hours... so idk. Thanks, -BB


Yeah when it comes to mood stabilizers (bar the benzodiazapine mood stabilizers), as far as anxiety relief goes pregabalin and gabapentin probably have the upper hand over lamictal, lithium etc since pregabalin and gabapentin are GABA analogues and increase GABA transmission.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Maybe psychedelics' antidepressant effect is from downregulation of 5-HT2 receptors? Also explains the tolerance.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

MDAI + amphetamine, with concurrent selegiline to block/mitigate serotonergic neurotoxicity.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Maybe psychedelics' antidepressant effect is from downregulation of 5-HT2 receptors? Also explains the tolerance.


Hmm, but that doesnt explain the acute antidepressive effect of taking psilocybin of another psychedelics, i tried it in treshold doses and the antidepressant effect was immediatly apperant.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Hmm, but that doesnt explain the acute antidepressive effect of taking psilocybin of another psychedelics, i tried it in treshold doses and the antidepressant effect was immediatly apperant.


I think that's due to 5-HT2A stimulation. Psychedelics can at some times be depressive ("bad trip"), other times antidepressive. 5-HT2C is probably involved in the depression/anxiety component.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> I think that's due to 5-HT2A stimulation. Psychedelics can at some times be depressive ("bad trip"), other times antidepressive. 5-HT2C is probably involved in the depression/anxiety component.


Yeah i agree.


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

I find this psychedelic talk pretty interesting. Back in my mushroom taking days I found that while tripping, every single time, it essentially turned me into an alpha male, so to speak. Unshakable self-confidence; talk about a trip for someone with SA. I love that **** lol.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Shrooms made me depressed and I ruminated a lot on past events.
Acid made me feel happy, social, and extremely motivated.

I have no idea why they affected me so differently, but my guess is that these differences were most likely primarily placebo.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

^ I read somewhere that psilocin has stronger affinity for 5-HT2C vs 2A than acid. Also said that it is pretty weak on 5-HT1A, opposite to acid.


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## Payn (Sep 15, 2008)

Selegiline + PEA, is as effectively as some stimulants but it has very short half-life.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

psychedelics are asking for trouble, but the whole point of psychedelics in my opinion is to get more enlightened about whats happeing around you and get a different view of the world and your problems. 
when i took mushies back in my hayday i liked them if i just took a little. But lsd sent me waaaaaay over the edge. Sent me into a mixed bipolar state that ive never come out of for 4 years now.
i dont think i can mess with that sh!* anymore at all. I smoked weed a while ago and it was pretty cool. But on the other hand, doing it everyday is pointless I think, you lose the euphoric craziness. I would only use it as a treat every once in a while maybe.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

n1kkuh said:


> A good example of this is Adderall, in fact, it may even seem contradictory to many psychiatrists, since its a stimulant.


They've surely heard of it and likely prescribed it to hyper kids. Your odds of getting it for SA are quite low though.

I will be getting my hands on dextroamphetamine within a number of days, though for depression not SA (though I know stimulants produce talkativeness & confidence, something those with SA certainly are lacking in.)

It's hard enough to find info online about the use of amphetamines for treating depression. Finding info about them being used for SA treatment I'm guessing is nearly impossible (though I haven't looked for such info...yet).


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## martyboi (Sep 18, 2009)

I LOVE psychedelics, but i never take them around other people. shrooms and acid all kill my short term memory and ability to articulate so i literally cannot have a conversation to save my life.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

When I took acid I had absolutely no social anxiety. I felt intensely connected to those around me.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Shrooms also turned me into an alpha male. I had no anxiety, complete self-confidence, and great articulation of speech, as well as improved cognition.

I tried isolating DMT from a DMT-rich root bark but it was too difficult to make.

I wonder if just eating the bark would do the same thing?

How do you ingest DMT? I know combining it with Nardel or Parnate would make oral doses psychoactive... so does anyone know how to get DMT?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

stealyourface722 said:


> psychedelics are asking for trouble, but the whole point of psychedelics in my opinion is to get more enlightened about whats happeing around you and get a different view of the world and your problems.
> when i took mushies back in my hayday i liked them if i just took a little. But lsd sent me waaaaaay over the edge. Sent me into a mixed bipolar state that ive never come out of for 4 years now.
> i dont think i can mess with that sh!* anymore at all. I smoked weed a while ago and it was pretty cool. But on the other hand, doing it everyday is pointless I think, you lose the euphoric craziness. I would only use it as a treat every once in a while maybe.


In treshold doses you dont experience the "magic" of psychedelics, just the antidepressive effects, this experience for example:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=3962649&postcount=14

By taking treshold doses you also wont get tolerant to the real psychedelic effect.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jakeforpresident said:


> Shrooms also turned me into an alpha male. I had no anxiety, complete self-confidence, and great articulation of speech, as well as improved cognition.
> 
> I tried isolating DMT from a DMT-rich root bark but it was too difficult to make.
> 
> ...


There are recipe's on the net, dont remember myself but you gotta make tea and stuff, google it.


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## nork123 (Oct 22, 2009)

buy some mimosa hostilis i think its called and take it with an maoi like nardil, or even syrian rue has a strong enough maoi effect to make dmt orally active. It lasts waaay longer than smoked dmt though so make sure you are mentaly prepared for it other wise you could be in for a rough ride, also be aware that you will most likely purge your guts out before the effects kick in. I've heard it can be a really benifitial trip though and clears out all of the mental cobwebs


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

you can always buy pure 5-meo-dmt off an RC site, not quite the same thing, but very similar


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## 10PercentExtra (Nov 8, 2009)

+1 for Psilocybin.

I had a huge dose of certain mushrooms at a certain arts festival in the desert.

For about 2 weeks afterward the trip I was beaming with self-confidence and positive feelings. I did things socially that I would never dream of.

The effect faded though, and I have not since been able to find mushrooms. I would try it again.


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## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

martyboi said:


> The two drugs i take right now are definitely under-appreciated. Although, its probably best that they stay that way so they don't become controlled substances.
> 
> Tramadol (SNRI/mu-opiate agonist) - another drug that isn't recognized by psychiatrists enough. Most people classify it as a pain killer, and for that reason its just assumed that it is dangerous/counterproductive to take for emotional issues. this may be the case with opiates like hydro/oxycodone, but tramadol is an atypical opiate. It doesn't cause the inevitable addiction cycle that most opiates do, and lasts much longer so is better suited as an everyday solution. Certainly, people can become addicted to tramadol but people can also become addicted to paxil at a similar rate. atleast tramadol allows the option of not taking it everyday...so if one wants to avoid addiction. they can. i only take it 100mg - 3 times a week and its works wonders
> 
> Neurontin/Lyrica - A lot of people find that neurontin helps their anxiety/mood which is why it surprises me that its still an off-label use. I think its indicated for seizures, nerve pain. I take 1200mg twice/week and always have great success with it. Although if u want to take it everyday, thats usually fine except for the fact that u eventually get a tolerance.


Thanks for that, I've been thinking of trying Lyrica, which is supposed to have the same effects but 3x stronger per mg than neurontin. Tramadol sounds interesting too, I've heard it can help, but has one major drawback, addiction.



nork123 said:


> buy some mimosa hostilis i think its called and take it with an maoi like nardil, or even syrian rue has a strong enough maoi effect to make dmt orally active. It lasts waaay longer than smoked dmt though so make sure you are mentaly prepared for it other wise you could be in for a rough ride, also be aware that you will most likely purge your guts out before the effects kick in. I've heard it can be a really benifitial trip though and clears out all of the mental cobwebs


The stuff you are referring to is Ayahuasca aka Pharmahuasca. I'd like to hear what it does for you since you seem to be a believer in it; it sounds interesting.


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## fcbfcb (Sep 17, 2009)

back in the 90's bumps of ketamine while in public, alternated with full blown journeys alone/with friends had me well adjusted socially & spiritually.

and another vote for psilocybin's evolution enhancing properties


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

fcbfcb said:


> back in the 90's bumps of *ketamine* while in public, alternated with full blown journeys alone/with friends had me well adjusted socially & spiritually.


Another drug the DEA doesn't want you to get. I recall seeing a PBS show on depression that showed ketamine being studied for depression. It was able to get one man feeling better within the hour, even though he'd failed it seemed every other treatment under the sun, even ECT, the gold standard of depression treatment.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

jakeforpresident said:


> Shrooms also turned me into an alpha male. I had no anxiety, complete self-confidence, and great articulation of speech, as well as improved cognition.
> 
> I tried isolating DMT from a DMT-rich root bark but it was too difficult to make.
> 
> ...


eating the bark, does cause psychoactive effects. i ground up a piece of mimosa hostilis bark (about 7 grams of bark), in a coffee maker and swallowed the powder with milk, i also ingested about 5 grams of syrian rue (MAO-A inhibitor), and i was also taking 9 mg selegiline (MAO-b inhibitor.) every day. ....it was one of the most scaryiest experiences of my life, i ate it at 7 30 in the morning and was still tripping at 5 oclock afternoon. i had had some sort of seizure i think, i was rolling around on the bathroom floor for about an hour, chewing my toungue and lips and stuff...i had this terrible intense pain all throughout my mind and body, i had no idea who i was, i thought everything was an illusion, everything people said sounded like it had been wired through an amplifier 10x louder, and through a phaser,, .....i thought it would make my SA go away...DMT isnt the same thing as Acid and shrooms. dont take it with Nardil or Parnate, you could be tripping for more than a day, and you could get Serotonin syndrom and stuff, besides, it was horrible/painful...not at all like shrooms and acid


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

how we can interpret this.
LSD and Psilocybin are both 5-ht2 agonist while i thought 5-ht2 agonists cause anxiety.
at least 5-ht2 antagonists(zyprexa-geodon) are used in SAD and don't worsen it.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> how we can interpret this.
> LSD and Psilocybin are both 5-ht2 agonist while i thought 5-ht2 agonists cause anxiety.
> at least 5-ht2 antagonists(anti psychotics: zyprexa-geodon-clozapine ...) are used in SAD and don't worsen it.


The 5HT2A agonists causing anxiety theory is rather sketchy imo. I've never jumped on the anti 5HT2A bandwagon, allmost all psychedelics have an antidepressant effect in treshold doses.


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## jeneep (Dec 8, 2009)

martyboi said:


> The two drugs i take right now are definitely under-appreciated. Although, its probably best that they stay that way so they don't become controlled substances.
> 
> Tramadol (SNRI/mu-opiate agonist) - another drug that isn't recognized by psychiatrists enough. Most people classify it as a pain killer, and for that reason its just assumed that it is dangerous/counterproductive to take for emotional issues. this may be the case with opiates like hydro/oxycodone, but tramadol is an atypical opiate. It doesn't cause the inevitable addiction cycle that most opiates do, and lasts much longer so is better suited as an everyday solution. Certainly, people can become addicted to tramadol but people can also become addicted to paxil at a similar rate. atleast tramadol allows the option of not taking it everyday...so if one wants to avoid addiction. they can. i only take it 100mg - 3 times a week and its works wonders


When I was still with my ex I had access to Tramadol. Before I even knew I had SA, I was taking them to calm myself down. Just yesterday my Doc looked at me in surprise when I told her I had been taking it. "But that's a painkiller" she said. I couldnt explain why it made my anxiety go away, but I know it did. Reading this makes a little more sense now.

Ironically, I was prescribed Paxil at my appointment. If it was FDA approved, I would have rather been prescribed Tramadol, especially considering they both have the tendency to cause addiction.

Are you taking it for pain issues or strictly for anxiety?


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

Amineptine

serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors


Seriously... let's get to the phenyltropanes already, I don't mind being a guinea pig.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> *Amineptine*
> 
> serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors


Survector was supposed to be absolutely amazing... which is prob why it was made illegal.

It is a shame that when a substance is able to cure or help significantly and people naturally latch on to said substance, it is labeled addictive and outlawed. Sigh.

Another interesting option: Serotonin-Dopamine reuptake inhibitors


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jakeforpresident said:


> Survector was supposed to be absolutely amazing... which is prob why it was made illegal.
> 
> It is a shame that when a substance is able to cure or help significantly and people naturally latch on to said substance, it is labeled addictive and outlawed. Sigh.


While its abuse potential was nowere near benzo's or amphetamine:roll.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I heard that some SNDRIs are in development for depression & anxiety disorders... Releasing agents would be better, but still it's a good step with dopamine being recognised for mood disorders in general.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

benzos are da bomb digity for social phobia/anxiety. I seriously do NOT understand why they have all the SSRIs all approved for social anxiety. They dont help me at all. Ive tried all of them too. the only one that helps it luvox and that one caused me a perm side effect so im not about to take it again. Paxil is like the worst too lol.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

stealyourface722 said:


> benzos are da bomb digity for social phobia/anxiety. I seriously do NOT understand why they have all the SSRIs all approved for social anxiety. They dont help me at all. Ive tried all of them too. the only one that helps it luvox and that one caused me a perm side effect so im not about to take it again. Paxil is like the worst too lol.


I know this thread is supposed to be about the "best drug nobody's ever heard of", but what the heck is a benzo and what proof do you have that they work for anxiety?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

^ lol


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## d1430 (Jan 1, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> They've surely heard of it and likely prescribed it to hyper kids. Your odds of getting it for SA are quite low though.
> 
> I will be getting my hands on dextroamphetamine within a number of days, though for depression not SA (though I know stimulants produce talkativeness & confidence, something those with SA certainly are lacking in.)
> 
> It's hard enough to find info online about the use of amphetamines for treating depression. Finding info about them being used for SA treatment I'm guessing is nearly impossible (though I haven't looked for such info...yet).


I am prescribed Adderall for a different problem and have dealt with SA for my whole life, and I can see why you would be excited about using amphetamines to minimize SA, I've been there. I loved the urge to socialize and the boost in wit. It feels awesome. It was a tremendous help, but you start realizing that amphetamines are not a viable solution for anything. I know this sounds close minded but look at the big picture: 1. There is no way to lower tolerance 2. You will be doubling your dose every one to two months. 3. You will be crashing after the medication's effect expires (Initial IR dosage will have you crashing in 4hrs) 4. Your sex drive WILL SUFFER. 5. Your brain chemistry changes.

If you think it will help, go ahead. You're on this forum which means you want to research the possible solutions and aren't just looking to speed. Maybe it will cure your anxiety, I don't know; for me, it's just a masking benefit that wears off in hours, yielding to a crash, low energy, and higher anxiety.

TLDR: Amphetamines = Horrible drug in general. Stay determined and safely try what remedies you think will help


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## d1430 (Jan 1, 2010)

meyaj said:


> I know this thread is supposed to be about the "best drug nobody's ever heard of", but what the heck is a benzo and what proof do you have that they work for anxiety?


Benzodiazepine. AKA Valium, Xanax, Klonopin. You've never heard of these drugs?



stealyourface722 said:


> ..I seriously do NOT understand why they have all the SSRIs all approved for social anxiety


Because SSRIs have a low number of side effects, which means the doctor's *** is covered. Supposedly they help treat SA in some people. Some doctors don't even mention the side effects (non existent sex drive). That and the fact that Benzos are highly addictive. Eminem's Relapse album is all about his addiction to Benzos


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## d1430 (Jan 1, 2010)

Also, MAOIs are considered one of the best SA remedies out there. The reason you won't get an MAOI when you talk to your physician is because they have an extremely long list of deadly interactions with a lot of daily product. So... you will get an SSRI that most likely won't help your social anxiety. Once again, at least the doctor's *** is covered and he won't have to worry about any interactions you may have forgotten about.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...he-best-medication-for-treatment-of-sa-36085/


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

d1430 said:


> 1. There is no way to lower tolerance


But there are ways...


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

d1430 said:


> 1. There is no way to lower tolerance


there are ways to lower tolerance, thankfully! i dont mean to discredit your statement, your right in saying its hard for the normal amphetamine user to understand and safely execute the necessary actions to lower tolerance significantly....but, when done carefully, and with adequate knowledge, it is possible to lower tolerance..there is still hope! amphetamine can be used effectively long term,....but, the necessary other drugs and supplements to prevent tolerance/reduce neurotoxicity can be hard/expensive to get for many people. for someone with few monetary resources, magnesium supplements are about the only option (only certain formulations are biovavailiable enough to actually help, i forgot what these were tho)....and also , smoking cigarettes could reduce a small amount of the (already small amount) of neurotoxicity, by inhibiting MAO-B.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

RILUZOLE !!!!! NMDA/glutamate/related systems are being ignored way too much.....--the reason benzodiazepines work, is by indirectly reducing glutamate/NMDA/excitatory activity in the brain. after a a short period of time, these excitatory networks just upregulate, and cause downregulation of GABA/inhibitory systems....... why not just block the excitatory glutamate/NMDA activity, and leave GABA alone? of course, its not that simple, u cant just block all NMDA and glutamate and expect a clean result....but nevertheless, Riluzole significantly reduces the effect of glutamate, by inhibiting release, and preventing the binding, of glutamate to All of its receptors. It also enhances the reuptake of glutamate.....and has been shown to be substantially effective in reducing depression, reducing GAD, anxiety, and also OCD, and reducing/eliminating the development of tolerance to many commonly abused drugs, including Amphetamines and opiates.

5HT2-C antagonists are also being ignored......they could be just as effective as Benzodiazepines, without causing ANY negative effects on concentration/memory (they should actually cause an INCREASE in memory/concentration abilities), they have a negligible abuse potential, there is NO withdrawal syndrome/reaction when quitting, they can/could be strongly antidepressant in addition to reducing anxiety....and they supposedly have a REVERSE tolerance. after repeated use, 5ht2-c antagonists downregulate 5ht2c receptors, so over time the drug effect becomes stronger. 5ht2c antagonists would provide IMMEDIATE, long term, and safe anxiety relief....and also, they would cause long term positive changes (reduction in 5ht2c receptor activity) that would last after the drug has been discontinued.

:clap:clap:boogie

***note--5ht2c *antagonists are awesome/good*. but 5ht2c *inverse agonists are different*, although more effective short term, they could have the same abuse/tolerance/withdrawal problems as Benzodiazepines.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

stealyourface722 said:


> benzos are da bomb digity for social phobia/anxiety. I seriously do NOT understand why they have all the SSRIs all approved for social anxiety.


No benzo is ever going to be approved for SA due to economics. They're generic, so there is nobody to fund trials needed for FDA approval. SSRIs all got their FDA approval for treatment of SA back when they were still under patent and expanding their usage would cover the cost of trials demanded by the FDA.

FDA approval doesn't mean much at all. It means it's "effective," though they apparently have a very low threshold for what "effective" means. A spoon is effective from moving snow, I suppose, but I'd rather not try clearing a driveway with a spoon.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> But there are ways...


Yup


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## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

d1430 said:


> Benzodiazepine. AKA Valium, Xanax, Klonopin. You've never heard of these drugs?
> 
> Because SSRIs have a low number of side effects, which means the doctor's *** is covered. Supposedly they help treat SA in some people. Some doctors don't even mention the side effects (non existent sex drive). That and the fact that Benzos are highly addictive. Eminem's Relapse album is all about his addiction to Benzos


ahah, Look at meyaj's signature, you'll clearly see he was being sarcastic.

I myself am beginning to see that dark side of benzos after about a year of taking them, my dose is still pretty low though, only abt 1mg 5x/week. I've been looking for some new drugs to help me replace them, but I just haven't found anything that really works for me. Neurontin I've been toying with lately, and it seems a worthy drug in its own merit, but it just doesn't seem light the right drug. Tramadol is my next stop....


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

n1kkuh said:


> ahah, Look at meyaj's signature, you'll clearly see he was being sarcastic.
> 
> I myself am beginning to see that dark side of benzos after about a year of taking them, my dose is still pretty low though, only abt 1mg 5x/week. I've been looking for some new drugs to help me replace them, but I just haven't found anything that really works for me. Neurontin I've been toying with lately, and it seems a worthy drug in its own merit, but it just doesn't seem light the right drug. Tramadol is my next stop....


Lyrica maybe? its supposed to be hell alot better then neurontine, many ppl like it for SA.


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## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Lyrica maybe? its supposed to be hell alot better then neurontine, many ppl like it for SA.


I'm also interested in that, they say its effects are way more potent than neurontin. Right now all I find it does is cause a little bit of brain cloud, slight loss of inhibition, much like any drug that acts on gaba, and that's at a dose of 900mg. Problem with Lyrica though, is that its freakin expensive, especially when your dirt poor.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

n1kkuh said:


> I'm also interested in that, they say its effects are way more potent than neurontin. Right now all I find it does is cause a little bit of brain cloud, slight loss of inhibition, much like any drug that acts on gaba, and that's at a dose of 900mg. Problem with Lyrica though, is that its freakin expensive, especially when your dirt poor.


Maybe order online? i tought you could legally order drugs online if you've got a script, not sure about that tough.

In my country its not possible but the state pays for all our drugs and docter visits, we only need to pay a small ammount.


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## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

Well, from the site that I know of, most of them sell gabapentin for dirt cheap, while they sell the pregabalin for like 3-4x the price per pill. Still I might consider it though, I would need to take less of the lyrica so it makes up for the price. 

forgot I still had pea+selegiline left over, no sense in it just sitting here....... but that's for tomorrow, now its time for bed.:dial ( I couldn't find the sleepy face so I just used that one, why does that smilie even exist?)


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Guide 4 Dummies said:


> Fluoxetine is a 5HT2C antagonist.
> 
> Especially Fluoxetine since it's also a direct 5HT2C antagonist.


But to get potent antagonism of 5HT2C you would also have a lot of serotonin reuptake inhibition which resulsts in 5HT2C agonism. (and the agonism seems to overpower the antagonism at the first few weeks of the treatment as its 5HT2C that causes the initial side effects of SSRI's.

Id be more interested in potent selective 5HT2C antagonists.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Guide 4 Dummies said:


> Potent selective 5HT2C antagonists would be much better, I agree.
> 
> But if it's true that 5HT2C receptors downregulate in response to both antagonists and agonists, then chronic treatment with Fluoxetine is still something to consider. :yes


Theoretically yes, but in practise prozac isnt that much more effective then the other SSRI's while agomelatine (a 5HT2C antagonist, MT agonist) has been shown to be more effective then the SSRI's.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

Guide 4 Dummies said:


> Potent selective 5HT2C antagonists would be much better, I agree.
> 
> But if it's true that 5HT2C receptors downregulate in response to both antagonists and agonists, then chronic treatment with Fluoxetine is still something to consider. :yes


it looks like it from the literature, but if the 5ht2c antagonism was significant, id think maybe there would be less sexual dysfunction associated with Fluoxetine...well more than just 5ht2c causes the SD, but it should contribute significantly


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

cyproheptadine, a potent 5-ht2c antagonist, did nothing for me. however it's also a 5-ht2A and h1 antagonist.
tramadol seems to be 5-ht2c antagonist too.


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

Would there be any issues taking mushrooms while on an SSRI (serotonin syntrome)? Anyone done it?


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

if you don't mind me asking...why would you want to experiment?


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

GnR said:


> Would there be any issues taking mushrooms while on an SSRI (serotonin syntrome)? Anyone done it?


Mushrooms, LSD, peyote, and similar psychedelics are fine to take on an SSRI. The only "issue" is that the effects will be immensely weakened, to the point where they're usually quite a waste on SSRIs.


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

my friend's brother was in the hospital and almost died from mushrooms.


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

lonelygirl88 said:


> if you don't mind me asking...why would you want to experiment?


 Well if there were interactions that could occur, then I would stay away from it. But I posted a few pages back in this thread that mushrooms have always been a great experience for me. The self confidence is mind blowing. I would be interested in whether it might help snap me out of this rut I've been in.


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

meyaj said:


> Mushroosm, LSD, peyote, and similar psychedelics are fine to take on an SSRI. The only "issue" is that the effects will be immensely weakened, to the point where they're usually quite a waste on SSRIs.


 Well that sucks, I suppose I should have figured that out on my own. What a let down, as I had a great opportunity for a good trip coming up.


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

GnR said:


> The self confidence is mind blowing. I would be interested in whether it might help snap me out of this rut I've been in.


surprised that is a problem for you.


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

lonelygirl88 said:


> surprised that is a problem for you.


Well this is SAS right? I wouldn't be here if I had great self confidence.


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

yea but to an extreme.


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

lonelygirl88 said:


> yea but to an extreme.


 I wish I could explain it, but I suppose people have different causes for their SA, be it neurological or life experience's.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

GnR said:


> Well if there were interactions that could occur, then I would stay away from it. But I posted a few pages back in this thread that mushrooms have always been a great experience for me. The self confidence is mind blowing. I would be interested in whether it might help snap me out of this rut I've been in.


They should work fine on SSRI's, only on remeron they dont work. I know someone that tripped on a SSRI.

I havent heared before that SSRI' would blunt the experience, you can try it.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> They should work fine on SSRI's, only on remeron they dont work. I know someone that tripped on a SSRI.
> 
> I havent heared before that SSRI' would blunt the experience, you can try it.


I can't see how a 5-HT2A agonist would be blunted while on an SSRI either. Even if 5-HT2A has more 5-HT ligand-binding due to general increase in synaptic serotonin levels, the exogenous ligand should still be able to bind to 5-HT2A and activate it more strongly. Even if the psilocybin has to compete with the endogenous ligand (serotonin), both are full agonists so 5-HT2A activation shouldn't be reduced.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> They should work fine on SSRI's, only on remeron they dont work. I know someone that tripped on a SSRI.
> 
> I havent heared before that SSRI' would blunt the experience, you can try it.





IllusionalFate said:


> I can't see how a 5-HT2A agonist would be blunted while on an SSRI either. Even if 5-HT2A has more 5-HT ligand-binding due to general increase in synaptic serotonin levels, the exogenous ligand should still be able to bind to 5-HT2A and activate it more strongly. Even if the psilocybin has to compete with the endogenous ligand (serotonin), both are full agonists so 5-HT2A activation shouldn't be reduced.


I'm not certain about this, however heres a study that was done awhile ago claiming that SSRI's cause a decrease in response to LSD, however no difference in response to psilocybin.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml

And also here's an anicdotal report of an SRI blunting the effects of LSD;

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=35488


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

^^^ Interesting stuff guys, thanks. I'll probably give it a go :boogie.


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## livingnsilence (Feb 4, 2008)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> RILUZOLE !!!!! NMDA/glutamate/related systems are being ignored way too much.....--the reason benzodiazepines work, is by indirectly reducing glutamate/NMDA/excitatory activity in the brain. after a a short period of time, these excitatory networks just upregulate, and cause downregulation of GABA/inhibitory systems....... why not just block the excitatory glutamate/NMDA activity, and leave GABA alone? of course, its not that simple, u cant just block all NMDA and glutamate and expect a clean result....but nevertheless, Riluzole significantly reduces the effect of glutamate, by inhibiting release, and preventing the binding, of glutamate to All of its receptors.
> .


Topamax is being curenly studied in SSRI resistant social anxiety disorder and there has been one very small study showing it may help. It acts in several ways but one way is AMPA (a glutamate receptor) antagonisim. The problem with glutamate/NMDA antagonism is memory problems. In fact alcohol induced blackouts are the result of depressing the glutamanergic system. I tried topamax and had to quit very quickly because of the memory problems started causing me to flunk out of school, wasn't even on it long enough to see if it would help with the anxiety.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

livingnsilence said:


> Topamax is being curenly studied in SSRI resistant social anxiety disorder and there has been one very small study showing it may help. It acts in several ways but one way is AMPA (a glutamate receptor) antagonisim. The problem with glutamate/NMDA antagonism is memory problems. In fact alcohol induced blackouts are the result of depressing the glutamanergic system. I tried topamax and had to quit very quickly because of the memory problems started causing me to flunk out of school, wasn't even on it long enough to see if it would help with the anxiety.


Its interesting that memantine seems to actually improve cognition while being a NMDA antagonist.


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## ladysmurf (Jan 3, 2012)

jeneep said:


> When I was still with my ex I had access to Tramadol. Before I even knew I had SA, I was taking them to calm myself down. Just yesterday my Doc looked at me in surprise when I told her I had been taking it. "But that's a painkiller" she said. I couldnt explain why it made my anxiety go away, but I know it did. Reading this makes a little more sense now.
> 
> Ironically, I was prescribed Paxil at my appointment. If it was FDA approved, I would have rather been prescribed Tramadol, especially considering they both have the tendency to cause addiction.
> 
> Are you taking it for pain issues or strictly for anxiety?


wow tramadol made your anxiety go away? that's interesting


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

i've been thinking about trying 5-htp.


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