# Lamictal + Abilify + Zoloft



## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

This will be my official thread for this combo..

Going to hopefully start Lamictal on monday or tuesday. Then add zoloft on wednesday @ 50 mg.

I really hope this combo works. I have so many things waiting for me in real life and ****, I need to tend to that ****. I need this to be in my past.

Dancing happy faces for everyone if this combination works.

EDIT: Mood is holding up thankfully above major depression, so I'm not in bed 24/7 atm, but it'll be soon. Must get on this combo ASAP. And it seems like my side effects are mostly gone except memory (its slowly getting better. I remember names much easier and recall things quicker) and the brain zaps have just started.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

So are you taking abilify yet?

Your posts are alot different then befor when you were taking nardil.

What are you taking atm?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

GotAnxiety said:


> So are you taking abilify yet?
> 
> Your posts are alot different then befor when you were taking nardil.
> 
> What are you taking atm?


Been off meds for 4 days. I'm on nothing.

Lamictal comes first. Then Zoloft when I'm 7-10 days past stopping Nardil because of MAO regeneration that must take place. Abilify will mainly be used for an increase in mood/energy and cognitive function if Lamictal+zoloft create deficiencies in that section


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Right on man can't wait to hear how your progress goes!


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

Be patient. Abilify usually works rather quickly, but the SSRI and Lamictal may take some time.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Great man hope it works as well as for me! I woke up this morning opened my blinds and saw the sun and man for the first time I felt what others feel when the weather is nice. This feeling of contentment, happiness and acceptance, it's weird cuz I never felt it.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Hope this helps you out gilmourr.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Great man hope it works as well as for me! I woke up this morning opened my blinds and saw the sun and man for the first time I felt what others feel when the weather is nice. This feeling of contentment, happiness and acceptance, it's weird cuz I never felt it.


...such a good feeling. The only times I kind of woke up like that were when I was on Nardil my 2nd time and it was kicking *** or when Parnate killed all my depression for 2 days straight. Pretty much the feeling I used to have everyday.

Restart that life of yours BUOY

@ben - yeah me too. Lamictal really needs to hit it out of the park because zoloft didn't do that much last time (but it may have been an issue with the dosage or the time I was on it).
These 3 meds are potent so I have confidence in this regimen. Also I'm excited for my short term memory to reverse from being off Nardil. Definitely felt that it lowered my IQ by about 10%-15%.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

have you started abilify already?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

2nd post I made, Lol.

But to repeat.. abilify will be added last most likely as it is more of an adjunctive med.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

BTW if anyone knows of Lamictal studies on pub med that show its efficacy with unipolar depression (MDD) I'd appreciate links.

I am bringing literature to my doc tmmr because you never know if they sometimes decide to be like...uhhh... no that's not for major depression.

EDIT: Also I decided I'll stick to 25 mg/week titration schedule for lamictal. I'll add zoloft at 50 mg for a a week then go to 100 mg zoloft in the 2nd week. So...

1st week = 25 mg lamictal + 50 mg zoloft
2nd week = 50 mg lamictal + 100 mg zoloft
3rd week = 75 mg lamictal + 125 mg zoloft
4th week = 100 mg lamictal + 125 mg zoloft
5th week = 125 mg lamictal + 125 mg zoloft
6th week = 150 mg lamictal + 125 mg zoloft

Then I will probably stay there for 3-4 weeks. Depending on the side effects I'll decide whether 1-2.5 mg of abilify will be needed

HAIL.****ING.MARY. WORK WORK WORK. I don't want to write off another year of my life playing chemistry and reading pharmacology.

@ben - I shall keep ya posted!

Right now my hands and feet are freeeeeeeeezing from the serotonin withdrawal of Nardil. Its weird because they're so cold yet I'm not shivering, which shows you how powerful the shivers were on Nardil. 

I wonder how long it would take for my body heat to balance out if I decided not to take zoloft in adjunct for the serotonin. W/E not gonna wait around to find out.

I think starting lamictal calls for a celebratory shot of JD. Haven't had a drink in 3 weeks because I haven't been out socializing. Also makes me waaaaarm


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Hey gilmourr, you'll have to tell me how you find lamictal. When I had a seizure a few years back I was put on an anticonvulsant called tegretol. Lamictal is also an anticonvulsant as I'm sure you know but I'm curious to know whether there are similar side effects to it. When I was on tegretol I had really poor memory. I couldn't recall certain events that well. It also really decreased my energy levels and my ability to concentrate. My coordination and balance was terrible too. I would walk around and need to hold onto something or lean against a wall. It was terrible. Worst medication ever. So I am curious to see whether there are any similarities to the two or whether they truly are different in terms of there side effect profile.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I haven't had any side effects from Lamotrigine (Lamictal). It may affect some but I think generally it's not bad side-effect wise. I had more side effects from neurontin. Neurontin made me feel lobotimized at first, but it wore off. I never experienced any side effects with Lamotrigine though.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

The faster you titrate the more likely you will develop a rash and may have to discontinue it.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

bazinga said:


> The faster you titrate the more likely you will develop a rash and may have to discontinue it.


Thats often why they, (pdocs) use a starter kit, initially. Afraid people can't grasp those directions on the bottle. Huh!!!:con


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I cheated. I titrated very fast, but that's stupid. Don't do that.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

I got that feeling of contentment happiness peace on lexapro. Haven't got it on Zoloft yet. Maybe i need to double the dose.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> I got that feeling of contentment happiness peace on lexapro. Haven't got it on Zoloft yet. Maybe i need to double the dose.


I don't feel Zoloft until I reach 150-200mg.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Lamictal + Abilify + Zoloft
Sounds like an excellent combo. Hopefully zoloft won't kill your sex drive. I would go with Lexapro instead.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

metamorphosis said:


> Lamictal + Abilify + Zoloft
> Sounds like an excellent combo. Hopefully zoloft won't kill your sex drive. I would go with Lexapro instead.


Really? Zoloft increases my sex drive. Maybe due to the dopamine at higher doses. When I took Lexapro it destroyed my sex drive, my drive to get out of bed, every drive in existence hehe.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Lexapro worked well for me at 5-10mg with no sexual side effects. Except for delayed ejaculation+++. I like it's clean activity as a 5HT reuptake inhibitor. To bad it pooped out after about 2 yrs and I blame it for frontal lobe apathy after 2yrs. It did decrease my sex drive in the end. Which has carried over after discontinuation. Though Parnate seems to be bringing that back, only 4days in. It's the insomnia that is the hasrd part. I can't function on 3hrs of light sleep a night for long. We need our sleep for body and mind health, repair, vivid sexual dreams  etc.. So, I am ready to employ a TCA with low serotonergic activity- nortriptyline, amitrip., or doxepin ( which is really just an anti-histamine, no clomipramine or imipramine. Possibly Trazadone at 25-50mg, as it is actually an anti-serotonergic drug. It has significant five HT antagonistic properties. And I will be on the sleep dose levels.
Ideally, after figuring out how my brain and tri-monoamines respond to Parnate at a steady state for 2 weeks. I may want to augment nortriptyline for it's excellent therapeutic and low side effect profile along with Trazadone for sleep. I have to see where I am at first with the Parnate.

Sorry, I got off topic. 
So, I have actually been mentioning a lot of the positives Abilify offers to others.
What doses are you settling on for the Abilify and Zoloft? Are you still experimenting with that? Also are you using other psych. meds with it? Or are you planning to?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Right now I'm going to stick to 2.5mg for a month as the steady state takes forever to reach. I wish I had started at 1mg I just didn't realize how powerful it is. If you look at my abilify thread I listed the occupancies at the d2+d3 receptors based on dosage. Even at 1mg it is freaking strong. My problem is, as I have mentioned, the pricing, it's a bit insane. I am going to consider going to 3.3mg after by taking a 10mg pill and splitting it 3 ways. This would be cheaper to get 10 10mg pills rather than 15 5mg pills. 

I'm also sitting at 150mg zoloft. I did 200mg in the past which was the best for me and I will discuss with my doctor how he feels about that. He doesn't even know i'm on zoloft since I ended up going to a gp to get that. 

I'm not using anything else. I rather not if I can get it working with these, it's just more costs. Right now my anhedonia seems to be disappearing. It's great how quickly the abilify works. I actually went on that website you posted "askapatient" and if you sort by highest ratings and read some of the stories there is people who just absolutely love abilify. Then as the scores get lower people are complaining about weight gain or they are taking insanely high doses of 30mg. It does make me super hungry no doubt. It's about making the right food choices. 

This is basically what the drugs do for me:

Abilify: improves anhedonic symptoms, depressive symptoms, provides energy (5mg starts to get sedating)
Zoloft: Removes anxiety and improves depressive symptoms


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

I've concluded my research. Lexapro can be used 4 days on 3 days off and another ssri can be used to mask withdraws. For a nearly complete remission of side effects and anhedonia. 4 days is about the right time befor befor you start feeling yucky. There is kinda a crash after that. I do feel lexapro works on my PFC a lot.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> I've concluded my research. Lexapro can be used 4 days on 3 days off and another ssri can be used to mask withdraws. For a nearly complete remission of side effects and anhedonia. 4 days is about the right time befor befor you start feeling yucky. There is kinda a crash after that. I do feel lexapro works on my PFC a lot.


So, a way to use the initial SSRI euphoria again and again by taking breaks? You've actually tested this method yourself, or is it just a sketchy theory? I wonder if this plan can work long term.

In my case, day 1 & 2 are great and induce insomnia, day 3-4 the effect is clearly diminished, dying somewhere during day 4. Do you experience the same, more or less?


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

@Mr.Bacon For me. It good till day 4 then after that your body feels like crap. Lactic acidosis insomina etc. A low dose 2.5mg cipralex then maybe a low dose of another antidepressant zoloft or prozac to buffer the crash. 

I figure it a tolarance issue. Just like Mementine and Amphetimines.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

metamorphosis said:


> So, I am ready to employ a TCA with low serotonergic activity- nortriptyline, amitrip., or doxepin ( which is really just an anti-histamine, no clomipramine or imipramine. Possibly Trazadone at 25-50mg, as it is actually an anti-serotonergic drug. It has significant five HT antagonistic properties. And I will be on the sleep dose levels.
> Ideally, after figuring out how my brain and tri-monoamines respond to Parnate at a steady state for 2 weeks. I may want to augment nortriptyline for it's excellent therapeutic and low side effect profile along with Trazadone for sleep. I have to see where I am at first with the Parnate.


I'm curious to know, if you end up on Doxepin, how it works for you for sleep. I have muder/death dreams pretty much daily. I also have a slew of other incredibly messed up dreams involving insanity, sex, etc. I haven't had one good dream since probably before april. So to dream less, I sleep less. It helps, but I sleep about 5 or less hours instead of 7+.

My doc was most concerned last visit with my disturbing dreams and how it's affecting my sleep. I was going to get on Mirtazapine for something else, but I haven't just yet. He wanted to prescribe Doxepin to stop the dreams. He says it slows REM sleep (something like that) which will reduce the murder/death and insanity dreams, my most disturbing dreams.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Really? Zoloft increases my sex drive. Maybe due to the dopamine at higher doses. When I took Lexapro it destroyed my sex drive, my drive to get out of bed, every drive in existence hehe.


This was the same for me. I remember having no or mild issue on zoloft. On cipralex I was having quite large issues, but paxil was the worst.

BTW, bazinga do you have nightmares from lamictal? Or have you ever?

Just got lamictal and zoloft again today. Starting lamictal @ 25 mg in 1 hour. I'm happy that I didn't have to jump through hoops for lamictal.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I don't think there's a connection. Lamictal can cause nightmares, but I've been on Lamictal over 2 years. These dreams started around april when I got really sick and they never stopped. I've experiemented with taking my meds at different times of the day to no effect. The dreams will occur day or night and regardless of when I take medication.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

What do you need Lamical and abilify for? If it's for depression you may be good with just one or the other. I would try them individually.

Antipsychs never helped me long for depression. They've always crapped out. Lamotrigine is what works. I'm bipolar though, so..


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

bazinga said:


> What do you need Lamical and abilify for? If it's just for depression you may be good with just one or the other. Both may be overkill. I would try them individually.
> 
> Antipsychs never helped me long for depression. They've always crapped out. Lamotrigine is what works. I'm bipolar though, so..


It's not really an antipsychotic at 1-2.5 mg. It's more of a dopamine boost. Regardless, I don't have abilify yet and will not be adding it until I'm at at least 100 mg.

BTW, bazinga is there a chance of major worsening in my mood?

Basically I'm just watching out for suicidal thoughts and a rash


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

i am bipolar. My experience is probably different than yours. I can't tell you what's going to happen. Generally it's an easy med to work with. I haven't had any side effects from it.

https://www.abilify.com/depression/tools/sign-up.aspx(30-day trial if you are in the US)

I'm actually thinking about coming off Saphris (AP). Been on it two years. I just have a feeling if I stop the racing thoughts will come back (as they do when I forget a dose) and the paranoia will come back which will increase my anxiety considerably. I don't need it for depression though.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

bazinga said:


> i am bipolar. My experience is probably different than yours. I can't tell you what's going to happen. Generally it's an easy med to work with. I haven't had any side effects from it.
> 
> https://www.abilify.com/depression/tools/sign-up.aspx(30-day trial if you are in the US)
> 
> I'm actually thinking about coming off Saphris (AP). Been on it two years. I just have a feeling if I stop the racing thoughts will come back (as they do when I forget a dose) and the paranoia will come back which will increase my anxiety considerably. I don't need it for depression though.


Yep, I'll just see how it goes.

First dose @ 25 mg. Can't wait to see what this can do  Especially because it's a new drug totally out of my ordinary choices.

EDIT: Can't wait to get on zoloft too, my hands are freezing cold with the serotonin withdrawal from nardil. I get no shivers though since Nardil caused that. Not sure if this is placebo, but since taking my first dose I've been yawning almost like every 10 minutes


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm sure some non-bipolar folks here would be interested to know the results.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Day 2 - It might be placebo but I feel a little bit more anxious/agitated after taking lamictal. It also might just be that more nardil is out of my system and nothing is covering me for depression + anxiety atm because my mood has been pretty bad today.

Other than that, I'm getting some good sleep (can't tell if its because of lamictal or if its just that nardil insomnia is going away) and I'm getting headaches.

I think the headaches are probably lamictal.

Anyways, tmmr we add 50 mg of Zoloft.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

Maybe the experience will be different for you since you are not bipolar. From what I read in these forums, it seems like the bipolar people who have had good experiences with Lamotrigine didn't really have many or any side effects at all. I certainly didn't.

It might work differently for you.

If it's giving you headaches, you might want to titrate slowly. It should go away, though.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

yah I read some people on crazymeds forum were getting anxiety. One of the drugs I researched. It will be a last resort for me. Keep us up to date.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> yah I read some people on crazymeds forum were getting anxiety. One of the drugs I researched. It will be a last resort for me. Keep us up to date.


Hopefully just anxiety initially. From my experience in the long-run, lamotrigine eliminated most-all of my depression which in-turn reduced my anxiety a lot.

When titrating 2 meds at-once, I imagine it's going to be hard telling the side effects apart. Good luck.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

bazinga said:


> Hopefully just anxiety initially. From my experience in the long-run, lamotrigine eliminated most-all of my depression which in-turn reduced my anxiety a lot.
> 
> When titrating 2 meds at-once, I imagine it's going to be hard telling the side effects apart. Good luck.


Well I've been on zoloft twice and it was the exact same. Flatulence and like abnormal bowel movements, it's not diahrea but it's not solid. So those are the only side effects I get.

The headaches should probably take a week at each increase in the dosage I've heard. And I'm thinking along your lines, that remission of depression will alleviate the anxiety--or a lot of it--maybe.

BTW, I was thinking Nardil inhibits GABA-T and in turn raises GABA, which changes the GABA/glutamate ratio. Which may be why it worked. Because I've used sert, NE, D meds and they never worked.

Which is why I chose this med. Because I heard blocking sodium channels reduces glutamate activity which should raise the GABA/glutamate ratio, correct? Like that's why I'm basically on it, in addition to the great reviews for depression and partially for anxiety/panic.

How is your motivation on Lamictal Bazinga?


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I don't have a single side effect. I never had one when titrating. All I can say is that it hasn't impaired me in anyway. I no longer feel like I have to nap (depression). I don't oversleep (depression). I don't have any mood swings. I am a lot better off than I was on any other med. No motivation issues.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

bazinga said:


> I don't have a single side effect. I never had one when titrating. All I can say is that it hasn't impaired me in anyway. I no longer feel like I have to nap (depression). I don't oversleep (depression). I don't have any mood swings. I am a lot better off than I was on any other med. No motivation issues.


You need to be the poster child for Lamictal for GlaxoSmithKline. "Buy this. It takes away your depression, anxiety and there are no side effects!"

My only concern of this medication is that it will take away my highs. I'm not bipolar (nor do my psychs think I am) but I am energized when I go out, and if there's one symptom I would say maybe I have of bipolar disorder is becoming energized and the life of the party. I'm not blowing my own horn or anything, I just enjoy being around people so much, listening to music and just love talking. Not in an annoying way, I just crave conversation, especially since I've been all cabin fever'ish in my house the last 3-4 months because of depression and panic.

Which IS the reason I have abilify on standby if I need some boost to make me feel mildly elated.

BTW have you ever tried zyprexa? I was looking at it for anxiety. During my side effect days/startup I usually evaluate my next option since I have nothing to do but that, exercise and read. I intend on giving this a long trial though  About 14-16 weeks probably.

EDIT: Thanks for all of your fast replies. Always appreciate feedback when I'm feeling like utter **** and just need guidance/reassurance that this may work.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

gilmourr said:


> My only concern of this medication is that it will take away my highs. I'm not bipolar (nor do my psychs think I am) but I am energized when I go out, and if there's one symptom I would say maybe I have of bipolar disorder is becoming energized and the life of the party. I'm not blowing my own horn or anything, I just enjoy being around people so much, listening to music and just love talking. Not in an annoying way, I just crave conversation, especially since I've been all cabin fever'ish in my house the last 3-4 months because of depression and panic.


Atypical depression comes to mind reading this.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> You need to be the poster child for Lamictal for GlaxoSmithKline. "Buy this. It takes away your depression, anxiety and there are no side effects!"
> 
> My only concern of this medication is that it will take away my highs. I'm not bipolar (nor do my psychs think I am) but I am energized when I go out, and if there's one symptom I would say maybe I have of bipolar disorder is becoming energized and the life of the party. I'm not blowing my own horn or anything, I just enjoy being around people so much, listening to music and just love talking. Not in an annoying way, I just crave conversation, especially since I've been all cabin fever'ish in my house the last 3-4 months because of depression and panic.
> 
> ...


So you're basically an extravert and i'm an introvert. Yet Abilify somehow makes me somewhat extraverted.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

jim_morrison said:


> Atypical depression comes to mind reading this.


Does it?

The symptoms on wiki are...

-Significant weight gain or increase in appetite;
-Hypersomnia (sleeping too much, as opposed to the insomnia present in melancholic depression);
-Leaden paralysis (i.e., heavy, leaden feelings in arms or legs);
-Long-standing pattern of interpersonal rejection sensitivity (not limited to episodes of mood disturbance) that results in significant social or occupational impairment.

I have weight loss and low weight, I sleep little if anything, I DO have heavy/leaden arms/legs when I'm like suicidally depressed, but then again who wouldn't? And I don't think I have interpersonal rejection sensitivity because I enjoy going out every thurs/fri/sat when I'm well and I really don't filter anything I say or do. Maybe sometimes with girls, but that's normal considering sometimes they're reactive to what you say 

I might've had some social anxieties in elementary school and early highschool, but they dissipated around grade 10. It was never a disorder though, I think it was just pretty much really high levels of nervousness in social settings. But I don't mean with like hanging out with people, I mean at like parties, and celebration events and formal ceremonies, musical performances etc. I think that's pretty normal.

Also added 50 mg of Zoloft this morning. Hopefully I don't develop borderline serotonin syndrome as I've only been off Nardil for 8 days. I just can't take the constant freezing of my hands/feet and brain zaps. I guess in 5 half lives we'll know. Plus I live 10 minutes in walking distance from a hospital so I wouldn't be that screwed.

EDIT: So far, 3.5 hours into the zoloft my eyes are more dilated, and I had a few dry heaves because a lot of nausea started up. I don't seem to have any confusion or muscle rigidity or fever. The dry heaves were probably caused by Zoloft increasing my anxiety. Hopefully it doesn't get worse.

I wonder, would there be any issue with taking 0.5 mg of klonopin?

Currently haven't taken my lamictal dose since I'm waiting until 6 pm. But right now 50 mg zoloft and 25 mg of lamictal should be in me.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

I was referring more specifically to the fact that you can become elated due to acute stimulus ie; socializing, despite being chronically depressed.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

jim_morrison said:


> I was referring more specifically to the fact that you can become elated due to acute stimulus ie; socializing, despite being chronically depressed.


Oh, no I didn't mean that, I'm still really depressed when I go out with people if I'm in a moderate/major depressive period.

Socializing if anything makes me more depressed. It's just that I normally drink beer if I need to go out which causes some short term remission of depression because I feel less pain. Which makes me less depressed when Im out.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't get why you get nausea. Do you not take it after eating a big meal?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Well I ate a sandwich and then took it, but I think the nausea is related to too much serotonin because you usually are supposed to wait 14 days before you go on an SSRI, and it's only been 8. I just was too cold from lack of serotonin and the brain zaps were annoying.

The nausea is caused by the serotonin receptors in my stomach going a bit crazy because my stomach has been making weird noises, as well anxiety, agitation and mild-moderate mydriasis is like a mild version of SS.

The medication itself wouldn't do this to me. Plus zoloft peaks at 4-8 hours and right now I'm at hour 5.5, so it makes sense I feel the worst right now and that it started 1 hour ago. Probably should've just done 25 mg or waited another day. I'll post back in 4-5 hours, I'm guessing it will reverse by then.

EDIT: At least the brain zaps have stopped atm and the coldness is gone completely


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

So it seems like what I experienced at about 10 am has dissipated entirely now I believe (anxiety, heaves, restlessness). Probably was just a serotonergic reaction. 

Weird, but right now I feel very apathetic. Last night even though I was depressed I didn't feel apathetic, but today I haven't felt depressed, I just don't really feel anything. It's not really a great feeling.

Maybe it's just leveling out or something? What I really don't want is emotional numbness...and that's what it entirely feels like right now.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

Well you just started. You're gonna have side effects. Just keep the titration slow. It should pass. I stayed at 50mg of Zoloft probably for months before I began increasing my dosage.

I felt fine at 100mg of Zoloft, but 200mg made me feel blunted. I couldn't tolerate it.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Even I felt the numbness at the beginning, it goes away. You can't expect something to work day 1. heh

Plus you're starting too many things at once. What if it's just lamictal getting closer to steady state?

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/bi...ort/2807478-lamictal-and-numbness-anyone-else

Any drug can cause that and unfortunately you won't know which one unless you do lamictal for a month on its own and then add something.


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## baxman (Aug 18, 2012)

"this feeling of contentment, happiness and acceptance, its weird cuz i never felt it"

wow yes i cannot imagine having this sort of feeling on a regular basis.no ssris have given me this feeling, the only thing that has in my lifetime is Gbl.that feeling of 'life is good'.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

baxman said:


> "this feeling of contentment, happiness and acceptance, its weird cuz i never felt it"
> 
> wow yes i cannot imagine having this sort of feeling on a regular basis.no ssris have given me this feeling, the only thing that has in my lifetime is Gbl.that feeling of 'life is good'.


SSRIs are only good for anxiety for me. This feeling is all abilify. So far this med has been amazing. Today I slept 5 hours because I stopped taking zopiclone or who knows but I have not even yawned all day and just feeling good. I just got back from shopping and remembered my entire shopping list without looking at my list.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I slept 2-3 hours a night for a month with ability. It didn't let me sleep much. On the bright side I was never tired.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

bazinga said:


> Well you just started. You're gonna have side effects. Just keep the titration slow. It should pass. I stayed at 50mg of Zoloft probably for months before I began increasing my dosage.
> 
> I felt fine at 100mg of Zoloft, but 200mg made me feel blunted. I couldn't tolerate it.


Oh yeah I agree. I just have never felt emotional blunting before and I doubt it was zoloft. I'm hoping it is just a short term thing while it pulls me out of depression and then maybe it will actually increase my mood long term.

And yeah, I'm doing 25 mg every 10 days now since I was a little concerned about rashes and don't want to have to restart. I'll be able to tell if this is working already by day 14-15 off Nardil since it always puts me into major major depression. Right now it's basically 9 days in now.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Even I felt the numbness at the beginning, it goes away. You can't expect something to work day 1. heh
> 
> Plus you're starting too many things at once. What if it's just lamictal getting closer to steady state?
> 
> ...


Yeah, but I was thinking a reduction in depression would make me feel happier, not emotionally numb. It kinda feels like dysthymia, but yeah, maybe it will go away.

Plus I doubt it is zoloft because it didn't do anything last time at 50 mg for 30 days. Not even numbness, I just was still majorly depressed.

All I know is that whatever little interests I had, I feel like I'm losing more of them, even though today was the first day I didn't feel major depression.

EDIT: ughh I think I'm gonna take my lamictal earlier in the day, not sure whether it's the depression, headaches or just a side effect of lamictal that's keeping me up..but it's 7 AM and I haven't got any sleep and my head is just aching.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Day 4 - slept all day because I couldn't get to bed even at 9 am without using 12.5 mg of seroquel. Went to bed with a headache, woke up with a headache.

I haven't added zoloft yet because I think adding zoloft yesterday after 8 days off Nardil was a bit soon. Had some milder SS symptoms. 

I seriously miss nardil  Even though it hardly worked this last trial, it was very good to me the first 2 times.

Mood: 1 or 2/10 ** Haven't had a very serious major depressive low since the 31st (the kind where my mind questions life and makes me feel agitated as hell) I just feel regularly crappy 24/7.

Anxiety: 1 or 2/10


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

5th day - So yesterday I slept for like 5-6 hours during the day because I had insomnia the night before. Then I slept from I think 7 pm until 11, so I had trouble going to sleep at 1,2 or any hour proceeding those.

What's weird is that at 3-4 AM, I began feeling REALLY good mood wise. It's 6 AM right now and I'm still feeling good (though a little bit tired). When it initially started it felt a little bit like it was closing in on hypomania (or maybe it's just that I've been depressed for so long that I can't recognize just a really good mood haha), but I think it's easing down a bit.

Also my pupils are fairly dilated. This might be the lamictal kicking in because it's half life is 24-34 hours on wiki and it's the 5th day atm. 

Even though it's a great feeling I just need to make sure it's not hypomania or that I develop hypomania all the time because I just want to be stable. No excessive highs or lows. Just a normal reactive mood 

EDIT: about 12 hours later my mood is still doing well, I feel close to being level. Though I still am having on and off headaches, and it seems that lamictal is causing insomnia or trouble falling asleep. I don't feel wired and I'm tired I just have trouble drifting off.

I added Zoloft today (25 mg, 50 mg tmmr), because I realized that my anxiety is actually getting worse, probably because I'm off serotonin meds completely. Also, I was thinking zoloft might let me gain weight and help with sleep possibly. Because my weight is becoming like borderline unhealthy. 6 foot 6 and 169 pounds. The depression was probably responsible for that.

Right now I'm trying to stay awake but I'm very tired. It's 4 pm, and I'm trying to get my sleep schedule back to normal, so I need to stay awake for another 7-8 more hours :/


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Day 6 - Woke up today @ 4 AM, my neck is pretty stiff atm and I have a mild sore throat.

Not really fond of these side effects.

Mood (3 or 4/10)
Anxiety (1/10)

Also I believe I'm beginning to have nightmares...


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

So since I'm having issues breathing on Lamictal I'm gonna ask my pharmacist tomorrow about his opinion. But I'm guessing he'll probably say to stop it as it's a rare side effect.

If he does I'll probably continue Zoloft and add remeron. I'll continue this combo for a month and then give nardil another shot at 30 mg first.

If the coldness comes back on Nardil when I retry it I'll need something that reduces norepinephrine.

Is there anything that can act like a norepinephrine enhancer (less in the synapse) or to have antagonist properties for norepinephrine?

Either that or more serotonin.

Ideas are...

- Lithium
- clonidine
- amitryptiline


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Maybe the rebound from the clonidine will have an antidepressant effect? It might be worth a shot.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Seroquel comes to mind.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Ben12 said:


> Seroquel comes to mind.


For shortness of breathe?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

andddddd now I just hit my first major depressive low on Lamictal. Guess I'll be up for a few hours. 

Seriously so ****ing over this ****. Almost ready to try out ECT, I just ****ing can't stand this ****. I can't solve this ****


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Maybe vicks can help.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Listen man. Get off the lamictal if you are having breathing trouble. 

Get on Zoloft and 2.5mg abilify. In 7 days you can choose to raise the abilify to 5mg. This combo has been awesome for me! I will be writing an update in my thread as I kind of haven't gotten to it.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

how is your blood sugar on abilify? I imagine mine was through the roof. I couldnt stop eating. Couldnt sleep so I was eating all day and night. I gained 16lbs in a month. I didn't want diabetes since it runs on both sides of the family, so I had to stop.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Listen man. Get off the lamictal if you are having breathing trouble.
> 
> Get on Zoloft and 2.5mg abilify. In 7 days you can choose to raise the abilify to 5mg. This combo has been awesome for me! I will be writing an update in my thread as I kind of haven't gotten to it.


Yeah, I agree, even though I'm a bit less depressed (as in it's not 24/7, just 4 hours swings) I'm having a lot of trouble breathing, to the point where I'm kinda tilting my neck like in CPR to get enough air at times

I'll continue taking zoloft and drop the lamictal.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bazinga said:


> how is your blood sugar on abilify? I imagine mine was through the roof. I couldnt stop eating. Couldnt sleep so I was eating all day and night.


It's normal. I eat healthy stuff only so even if I get hungry I'll eat something like buckwheat mixed with plain yogurt and chickpeas hehe. But I haven't been as hungry as I was in the beginning, it could have been a transient side effect. You took more than 5mg though no?


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

Nah just 2mg. I thought about switching from Saphris and trying Abilify again, but I don't like the incessant hunger. It's hard to fight being hungry all day. I feel pretty good with Saphris and my blood sugar is normal so that's good.

How long did it take for the hunger to subside? I quit after 1 month and my weight went back to normal.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

I think I'm going to do remeron + zoloft for a while so I can get some sleep and get my weight back up.

I weighed in at 169 pounds yesterday for 6'6, so yeah, could use sleep and an appetite. Plus remeron will take away the depression until zoloft is in me long enough.

Then when Zoloft is built up I'll come off the remeron and use abilify.

Also, when I say I'm using remeron, I just mean 15 mg, or 7.5 mg. I really don't need much at all.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

@bazinga the lower doses are more activating.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I got up to 162 or 172 lbs on abilify. I can't really remember. It was the most I've ever weighed in my life. I'm 5'6" and weigh 134 lbs. I had to be careful not to develop some serious health problems.'

It seems like most of the meds my doc wants me to try now, like Anafranil and Remeron, also cause weight gain. I'm pretty happy with my weight right now so I'm iffy about trying them. It seems like half the members of my family have developed diabetes. Either my brother or I will probably get it, and considering my brother has a very healthy diet, I will probably be the one.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Ahh, well you are what you eat!

If you have no self control I would stay away from any of those hehe.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

gilmourr said:


> Yeah, I agree, even though I'm a bit less depressed (as in it's not 24/7, just 4 hours swings) I'm having a lot of trouble breathing, to the point where I'm kinda tilting my neck like in CPR to get enough air at times
> 
> I'll continue taking zoloft and drop the lamictal.


Either Remeron or seroquel for what you wanted regarding antagonistic properties on norepinephrine. If your having breathing problems though I'd go to your doctor, and check for symptoms of asthma. You said in an earlier post that you had wheezing during certain circumstances. An asthma inhaler might benefit you.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Ben12 said:


> Either Remeron or seroquel for what you wanted regarding antagonistic properties on norepinephrine. If your having breathing problems though I'd go to your doctor, and check for symptoms of asthma. You said in an earlier post that you had wheezing during certain circumstances. An asthma inhaler might benefit you.


Yeah true, I do have wheezing at times, but it is pretty uncommon. I'm not sure whether a puffer would make my wheezing worse if I started using it and then stopped it. For instance if I stopped taking lamictal.

I kinda want to continue on lamictal, I just can't breathe on it. Would lactose as an ingredient in lamictal cause wheezing if I'm lactose intolerant? Not really sure what other reaction is causing it.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

Inhalers are always nice to have around. I am a smoker. I don't have asthma that I know of, but I have a Combivent inhaler which works great when I can't breathe too well. Instant relief.

Combivent is insane. 1 inhaler cost me $190. My mother friend gave me some for free that she got in mexico super cheap.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

gilmourr said:


> Yeah true, I do have wheezing at times, but it is pretty uncommon. I'm not sure whether a puffer would make my wheezing worse if I started using it and then stopped it. For instance if I stopped taking lamictal.
> 
> I kinda want to continue on lamictal, I just can't breathe on it. Would lactose as an ingredient in lamictal cause wheezing if I'm lactose intolerant? Not really sure what other reaction is causing it.


I had really bad asthma when I was younger and trust me, it's better to get an inhaler just to be on the safe side. The doctor can use his stethoscope to check your lungs to see whether there is anything going on. There's nothing to lose.

Regarding the lactose in lamictal. If there is lactose in it and your lactose intolerant, you might want to consider something different. It might be probable that symptoms of the allergy to lactose could be wheezing. But I don't know for sure.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

bazinga said:


> Nah just 2mg. I thought about switching from Saphris and trying Abilify again, but I don't like the incessant hunger. It's hard to fight being hungry all day. I feel pretty good with Saphris and my blood sugar is normal so that's good.
> 
> How long did it take for the hunger to subside? I quit after 1 month and my weight went back to normal.


Weird thing about diabetes risk and AAPs is that it's not always inherently correlated with weight gain, it may have to do with dopamine receptors in the pancreas being interfered with.

http://www.jbc.org/content/280/44/36824.long


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

jim_morrison said:


> Weird thing about diabetes risk and AAPs is that it's not always inherently correlated with weight gain, it may have to do with dopamine receptors in the pancreas being interfered with.
> 
> http://www.jbc.org/content/280/44/36824.long


That's interesting. Though it really depends if these drugs would even bind to these receptors and remain attached. Drugs like abilify have a very specific cell target and are not associated with diabetes as much as the other antipsychotics. Given the amount of studies I have read on abilify, it is rare for it to cause insulin issues on its own. It would have to be the hunger it induces that causes these problems. Although anything is possible as we are all unique.

What I find weird is even some of the hardcore antipsychotics like haloperidol will barely touch glucose/insulin.



> Acute administration of high doses of clozapine, olanzapine, quetiapine, perphenazine, or chlorpromazine significantly increased plasma glucose by 100%-140% above basal levels without significant effects on insulin levels. In contrast, risperidone reduced plasma glucose (−30%) and markedly enhanced plasma insulin levels. Doses of ziprasidone that gave 50-fold higher free plasma concentrations than therapeutic plasma levels, as well as high doses of aripiprazole and haloperidol, did not significantly alter either glucose or insulin levels. Clozapine- and olanzapine-induced hyperglycemia occurred at free plasma concentrations that were within, or one order of magnitude above, the range of therapeutic plasma levels.
> 
> http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/2/410.short


Although this didn't study long term effect.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

kehcorpz said:


> Listen man. Get off the lamictal if you are having breathing trouble.
> 
> Get on Zoloft and 2.5mg abilify. In 7 days you can choose to raise the abilify to 5mg. This combo has been awesome for me! I will be writing an update in my thread as I kind of haven't gotten to it.


You sure your not a rep for Bristol-Myers Squibb? 8)


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

metamorphosis said:


> You sure your not a rep for Bristol-Myers Squibb? 8)


Shh you will blow my cover. I'm basically the cover model for Abilify. It doesn't hurt that I'm sexy. hehe

Seriously though if I love something I'm going to push it. I know i'm not the only one. In fact it seems that all the good reviews of abilify just rave about how it's a life saver.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Cipralex cipralex cipralex cipralex cipralex cipralex cipralex.

Spam alert lol j/k

I hate every drug. Just the shear fact i need to take somethin sucks. I just got this 10 pound bag of potatos. Im gonna enjoy that greatly yum yum.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

But it nice knowing there something out there that can help make me somewhat functional.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

kehcorpz said:


> That's interesting. Though it really depends if these drugs would even bind to these receptors and remain attached. Drugs like abilify have a very specific cell target and are not associated with diabetes as much as the other antipsychotics. Given the amount of studies I have read on abilify, it is rare for it to cause insulin issues on its own. It would have to be the hunger it induces that causes these problems. Although anything is possible as we are all unique.
> 
> What I find weird is even some of the hardcore antipsychotics like haloperidol will barely touch glucose/insulin.


Yeah I personally think the risk for diabetes only shoots up in cases of 'a perfect storm' that is to say when Histamine-1, 5-HT2c, and D2 receptors are all blocked in close proximity as is the case with Zyprexa.

The Histamine-1 and 5-HT2c blockade together enhances appetite and sugar cravings (D2 blockade can do this too but usually only when it increases prolactin which isn't the case for Abilify). And then add on to that the effect of dopamine receptor blockade in the pancreas & the resulting changes in insulin (again not necessarily a problem with Abilify since it works a bit differently to the others) and IMO that's when prediabetes and such become an apparent issue.

Zyprexa specifically seems to have a third issue where it makes the body 'switch' it's primary fuel source over from carbohydrates to fat but I'm not sure what the mechanism behind that is or if it occurs with other antipsychotics or rather is unique to zyprexa.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

jim_morrison said:


> The Histamine-1 and 5-HT2c blockade together enhances appetite and sugar cravings (D2 blockade can do this too but usually only when it increases prolactin which isn't the case for Abilify). .


It could explain why I don't get the insane cravings at 5mg that I was getting at 2mg. At 5mg abilify starts becoming a partial agonist at 5-ht2c. Although it may touch histamine a bit at that point, though still may require 10-15mg for that.

Yah abilify actually DECREASES prolactin, which I found to be cool.



> Baseline prolactin levels were not significantly different between the two groups. During the 8-week study, prolactin levels in the aripiprazole group, compared to the placebo group, were significantly lower, demonstrating a significant time effect (F=19.8, df=2, 98, p≤0.0001) and a time-by-group interaction (F=31.8, df=2, 98, p<0.0001) on repeated measures ANOVA (Figure 1). *No significant effect was observed in the placebo group over time. The percent decrease in prolactin levels for the aripiprazole-treated patients was 76.5% and 84.2% from baseline at weeks 4 and 8, respectively*
> 
> http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=98925


Although typically it does a better job lowering prolactin in those that had it increased by other means like drugs or lifestyle.


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