# Y'all still be socially anxious because...



## EbilJoe (Nov 12, 2015)

Hi guys,

so I've been doing a lot of EFT lately (it's a technique where you find negative memories or beliefs and neutralise them). Wanna hear what I found out? Let's have a look.

This is the a series of statements from two nights ago:

I can't overcome SA 
-Cause in the real world nobody gives a **** about me
-Cause I'm a coward
-Cause I'm a whiner
-Cause I'm a wuss, and this is true
-Cause I'm not good enough
-Cause I'm damaged
- From the outside it looks like I want to to be a loner
-I don't deserve to overcome this when there's other people out there who work twice as hard

Pretty basic stuff, right? Most of it also can be easily disproven by logic. I'm not a whiner by nature cause in some things I work pretty hard. I don't WANT to be a loner by choice. And even though some people might work harder (or not) than others, still everyone deserves to be anxiety free in my book.

Or you can also disprove these things by taking action. If I think I am cowardly, I will say the truth more often. If I think I'm a wuss, I will embrace more pain in the gym instead of quitting soon. And so on.




Now here's the problem! I've overcome these things often, but they always come back. This puzzled me. Actually, this made me really mad.

Usually I blame it onto myself (and then I hate on myself). But since I know there's almost always a good reason to what we do, I decided to dig deeper. Here are the statements that came up yesterday:

I don't wanna overcome my SA/I don't wanna grow strong

-Cause I would make friends, but these would be the very people who didn't give a **** about me when I had SA. This makes me extremely mad.
-Cause I've never had someone care for me when I was down in the dumps.

To sum it up, I want someone able to see past my SA and see something good in me before I move on. I've always wanted that. It's very hard to let go of it.

More statements:

-It feels unfair to just abandon my old self, which has been so scared and hurt all the time, just to have a better life
-It feels unfair to leave other people in the mess and just move on (or even become a "normie"?! Heaven forbid)

Here the problem is the sympathy that I (and others like me) never got. Just feels wrong to move on.

Some more:
-I'm deeply attached to the person I was before
-I wanna take care of him and show him that there's a place in this world for him.

Same as before. Wanna feel OK, and not that I have to become someone else to be OK. 



Woo. Totally different story here. Now it's not that I'm stupid or ugly or unlovable or lazy. These are actually legit reasons for not wanting to let go of the SA.
I am curently working on these issues with more EFT, and the progress I been making is good. It's just, still blowing my mind. Part of me WANTS my SA. Part of me NEEDS my SA. 

And here I was hating myself and calling myself a stupid **** that just doesn't deserve anything good. 



Anyway if you've made it this far thanks for reading. You might have your own reasons for why your SA doesn't go away permanently, couple examples:

-I don't wanna forgive my bullies
-I don't deserve to let go of this because I've done bad things
-I wanna punish my family by being miserable because they think I'm lying about SA
-My SA makes me a better person because X 
-People are mean (if I become normal I'll become mean)
-No one cares about me at my worst, so why should people deserve me at my best

And so on. Let me know what you think!

Peace,
Marco


----------



## Beast And The Harlot (Jun 14, 2015)

Woah, this is exactly how I feel! (except I feel I'm too ugly, can't be loved, etc)

Great post man.


----------



## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

You really want my honest thoughts Marco?


----------



## versikk (Nov 25, 2013)

@VanDamme


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

versikk said:


> @*VanDamme*


Yes?



EbilJoe said:


> Let me know what you think!


Here are a few other that I heard why people CHOOSE not to change:
-fear of unknown
-SA helps motivate people. If no SA, person doesn't try to go out and improve.
-If no SA, person will not be caring and considerate.
At least that's what they say. But as @EbilJoe mentioned, sometimes the real reason may be something else.

Are these VALID reasons for not changing? No. They are just reasons that people CHOOSE to stick to. Why do I say that? Because I've met many people from all walks of like who DECIDED and were COMMITTED to overcome such limitations and have been successful at it. I'm sure you've heard or seen documentaries or movies based on real people's lives and experiences who overcame great obstacles.

Sure, there are some situations where people are actually in a situation where they are being physically threatened by others or have other reasons for their beliefs that will require more than just belief change.

Many people won't quit smoking in the short term for certain benefits (e.g. to relax) ... but once major health issues arise then they try to.

Changing such beliefs is also similar to forgiveness as it also comes down to a choice. Some people find ways to forgive, others choose not to. If you don't want to change and get started, then you've made your choice. Of course, I'm not talking about making a simple choice and everything is different. As mentioned above, that choice also has to be followed up with action - often the right type of action to change successfully.


----------



## Bogus (Jun 28, 2010)

> It feels unfair to just abandon my old self, which has been so scared and hurt all the time, just to have a better life


that doesnt make sense, pretty much the opposite is true. youre not abandoning anyone, you are making good. you will be the same basic person, just you will have done yourself(yes that old you) a huge favor.


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

Bogus said:


> that doesnt make sense


Feelings don't make sense. That's why you can't *think* your way out of a problem like that. You need a different approach for those.


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

versikk said:


> @*VanDamme*


So, which limiting belief from the list above (or maybe somewhere else) have you adopted to hold you back from overcoming SA?


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

I haven't changed because I'm a very vulnerable person.I fall into my own traps quite often and whenever I say "I will go out and do this and I will be strong" but usually it's always out of ego and peer pressure.I wanna prove to myself that I can get rid of SA and have my family and other people see I'm not the loser they might think I am.It's really hard to work out how to get rid of SA and what motivates us to.It's much easier to just go to the gym or for a run to ease that feeling you get when anxiety attacks strike you.Work it out for the moment.But that means nothing for the long run.


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> It's really hard to work out how to get rid of SA and what motivates us to.


Yes, it can be difficult. Especially, when you have coping mechanisms that can provide relief much quicker ... at least in the short term.

But if you do put the effort into uncovering the true issues and resolve those, you'll find what you're looking for. Chances are it won't be easy but it'll be worth it. For me it certainly was.


----------



## That Random Guy (Jan 31, 2015)

*What..*

I didn't even look through all of the content after seeing the title of the thread.

Seriously, "Y'all"?

Nice input however. Hopefully some of the folk here can use it.

- T.R.G.


----------



## Moment of Clarity (Nov 3, 2011)

EbilJoe said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> so I've been doing a lot of EFT lately (it's a technique where you find negative memories or beliefs and neutralise them). Wanna hear what I found out? Let's have a look.
> 
> ...


 When there is a strong habit it will take some time to change.
Just keep going in the right direction and you'll get there.



> Usually I blame it onto myself (and then I hate on myself). But since I know there's almost always a good reason to what we do, I decided to dig deeper. Here are the statements that came up yesterday:
> 
> *I don't wanna overcome my SA/I don't wanna grow strong*
> 
> ...


 This is actually very impressive that you were able to understand that about yourself. Getting to this point can be a big hurdle for many people.

The next step is to look deeper into your emotional dependance on other people.



> More statements:
> 
> *-It feels unfair to just abandon my old self,* which has been so scared and hurt all the time, just to have a better life
> 
> ...


 Try to understand that what happened in the past doesn't really matter. You do not have to continuously bring it up in the present. In other words the question isn't why do you act or behave as you do (everyone has their story), but *why do you choose to be that way now?* You're really not forced to.

That is where most people get stuck. They cannot let go of the past and their assessments of what was fair or what should have been. The way to proceed is simply to let go and stop the excessive clinging to the past.

Cultivate this habit, and you'll be well on your way.
Focusing on your breathing for ten cycles can help at times.



> Same as before. Wanna feel OK, and *not that I have to become someone else to be OK.*


 No one is ever truly the same as time goes on. Change cannot be prevented, so there is no need to act as if who you are is static.



> *Part of me WANTS my SA. Part of me NEEDS my SA*.


 Again I'm impressed. If I was to point that out to many people with SA they would not react happily.

Try and understand how it's all interconnected. Who you think you are, cannot be preserved if the SA goes. Are you willing to give up your attachment to your past identity? If not you'll always cling to the SA and self-sabotage in order to maintain the identity you're attached to.



> And here I was hating myself and calling myself a stupid **** that just doesn't deserve anything good.


 Do not judge yourself, it will only cause negative consequences. Instead understand.



> Let me know what you think!
> 
> Peace,
> Marco


 I think you're close to figuring it out for yourself. Just keep trying to understand.



VanDamme said:


> Changing such beliefs is also similar to forgiveness as it also comes down to a choice. Some people find ways to forgive, others choose not to. If you don't want to change and get started, then you've made your choice.


 True, but I'd like to add that what one understands is what defines one's choices.
For instance forgiveness is a interesting example because many people believe that by forgiving someone, they are doing something good for the other person. That's actually a misunderstanding though.
*When someone forgives another, relief occurs in the person who was willing to forgive, and not the other way around.*



VanDamme said:


> Feelings don't make sense. That's why you can't *think* your way out of a problem like that. You need a different approach for those.


 My experience has been the opposite of what you described. For many years I've tried to understand how and why I feel as I do. At this point I feel very in tune with what occurs.

Even when I used to be very depressed, how I thought played a important role. Some people argue that the conscious mind cannot control the symptoms of certain experiences because they originate from deeper regions of the mind, and they're right. That doesn't mean however that the conscious mind should not be utilized for relief. In ways it acts as a lens. If one's beliefs of the situation are harmful the symptoms can be magnified, but the opposite is also true. If one can accept what's being experienced and let it occur, they can at least not make things worse for themselves. Think of what I'm describing as an extension of the placebo effect. *The emotional impact of an event does not exist in isolation from one's beliefs about what is occurring.*



JustALonelyHeart said:


> *It's really hard to work out how to get rid of SA*


For me it all came down to understanding. Once I understood how I was causing my own suffering, which was a consequence of the way I was thinking, my perspective was changed. Soon after my problems were possible to resolve. Exposure came after that and it was completely manageable, even with all my harmful thought patterns from before because I had the necessary understanding to realize what was going on and respond appropriately.



> I haven't changed because I'm a very vulnerable person.


 This isn't necessarily true.
Be careful because by defining yourself in this way you can create your own mental prison.



> I fall into my own traps quite often and whenever I say "I will go out and do this and I will be strong" but usually it's always out of ego and peer pressure. I wanna prove to myself that I can get rid of SA and have my family and other people see I'm not the loser they might think I am.


 It's good that you realize what's behind your intentions. One thing is that you don't need to worry about what you believe others believe. Good or bad it's always your beliefs about the situation which are supporting or not. It's not the other people.



> It's much easier to just go to the gym or for a run to ease that feeling you get when anxiety attacks strike you.Work it out for the moment.But that means nothing for the long run.


 Well there is a lot that can be learned by observing what occurs when you find relief through physical activity. To give a hint, *the loss of the feeling of self that can occur is a large part of why there is at least temporary relief from suffering*. When one suffers, it is necessary to be focusing on the self. Try putting your attention else where and you may find that your experience changes.


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

Moment of Clarity said:


> My experience has been the opposite of what you described. For many years I've tried to understand how and why I feel as I do. At this point I feel very in tune with what occurs.
> 
> Even when I used to be very depressed, how I thought played a important role. Some people argue that the conscious mind cannot control the symptoms of certain experiences because they originate from deeper regions of the mind, and they're right. That doesn't mean however that the conscious mind should not be utilized for relief. In ways it acts as a lens. If one's beliefs of the situation are harmful the symptoms can be magnified, but the opposite is also true. If one can accept what's being experienced and let it occur, they can at least not make things worse for themselves. Think of what I'm describing as an extension of the placebo effect. The emotional impact of an event does not exist in isolation from one's beliefs about what is occurring.


Looks like I didn't explain very well what I was thinking. 

Yes, I know that feelings can be influenced but not the way the person replied. Trying to use logic to an emotional issue is similar to the someone trying to communicate with a horse using only words.


----------



## Moment of Clarity (Nov 3, 2011)

VanDamme said:


> Looks like I didn't explain very well what I was thinking.


Who knows? Maybe I misunderstood.

"Feelings don't make sense."

That was what I was in disagreement with. I think they can be understood, if a person is willing to spend the time to honestly evaluate themselves.

This takes patience and compassion to do so. If a person is unknowingly cultivating negative consequences (through judgement, hatred, anger, ego issues etc.) while trying to do this, they will not get past those barriers they constructed.

New understanding of one's feelings will only be possible, once the mind is free of obstacles. As for how long that will take for any given person, no one can say. Even once I nearly knew the way it still took another year to become present minded enough, to understand how I was habitually and unknowingly causing my own suffering.



> Yes, I know that feelings can be influenced but not the way the person replied. *Trying to use logic to an emotional issue is similar to the someone trying to communicate with a horse using only words. *


 I agree with you, because I think most people haven't put the necessary time and focus into what I'm describing. It's just that from my experience and the accounts of those who influenced me, I have to think that emotional issues are possible to understand. Once I understood, my emotions were controlled a significant amount.

All I can say is I had life destroying problems for many years (because I thought just like many people on this site) and now it seems, I'm in a more comfortable head space than plenty of healthy people.

I'm nothing special, and I didn't have a great work ethic when it came to this.


----------



## newbornmind (May 6, 2012)

EFT is good, glad to see other people using it on here


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

Moment of Clarity said:


> Who knows? Maybe I misunderstood.
> 
> "Feelings don't make sense."
> 
> That was what I was in disagreement with.


Yes, I know  
I agree with you that statement by itself isn't true in general and there are times that you can "think" your way out of a problem. But I've been in situations where I literally felt like not caring about anything. Those were my "anxiety hangover" and happened during the morning after attending the last of many social events during a week. I'm guessing it had something to do with the build up of anxiety related chemicals in the body during the week because I would be fine by afternoon. Over time, as SA went down, those periods also disappeared. So, I can imagine times where someone feels a certain way or don't feel anything due to some bio-chemical issue and can't really do much about it with a purely thinking based approach.

Maybe one day we'll have diagnostics tools to say with certainty what issue a person is actually facing.

For example, if it turns out that much like the way I, you and many others were able to manage or overcome SA, and it can be confirmed that it is the "changeable type", will those people change? Certain issues will still require making a choice, dedication and commitment to face fears or at least find the approach that work. Then there are also certain limiting beliefs that provide some benefit to people ~ the thread topic is exactly about that.


----------



## Moment of Clarity (Nov 3, 2011)

VanDamme said:


> I'm guessing it had something to do with the build up of anxiety related chemicals in the body during the week because I would be fine by afternoon. Over time, as SA went down, those periods also disappeared. * So, I can imagine times where someone feels a certain way or don't feel anything due to some bio-chemical issue and can't really do much about it with a purely thinking based approach.*
> [...]
> Certain issues will still require making a choice, dedication and commitment to face fears or at least find the approach that work. Then there are also certain limiting beliefs that provide some benefit to people ~ the thread topic is exactly about that.


Yeah, I completely agree. There is significant delay between improvements in one's thinking and reduction of the symptoms.

It's the easiest thing in the world to maintain or if trying to improve, fall back into old thought patterns (the type that go hand in hand with SA).

I think the adjustment period could be compared to trying to keep a candle lit for a day while in the wind. It's nothing too complicated, but without deliberate attention, I don't know if it can happen.


----------



## VanDamme (Jun 8, 2004)

Moment of Clarity said:


> Yeah, I completely agree. There is significant delay between improvements in one's thinking and reduction of the symptoms.
> 
> It's the easiest thing in the world to maintain or if trying to improve, fall back into old thought patterns (the type that go hand in hand with SA).
> 
> I think the adjustment period could be compared to trying to keep a candle lit for a day while in the wind. It's nothing too complicated, but without deliberate attention, I don't know if it can happen.


That's a good analogy. 

Similar to the one I've heard for meditation: training the mind to keep attention on something is like training puppy. As soon as the puppy wonders off, you bring it back. Except, when you dealing with an established habit, that may be more tenacious puppy.


----------

