# I now know what it means to be normal



## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

I always thought my anxiety was the major problem and the cause of everything else. I always thought that being anxious all the time made me sad and so caused my depression which in turn caused more anxiety and so on in a loop. But I now know that SELF-ESTEEM is the root cause of my problems. If a person likes him- or herself, he or she doesn't feel inferior to other people and so he or she isn't nervous around people. I also suddenly believe in the "chemical imbalance" theory as just a change in medication means _I don't care what other people think about me_. I don't care if people don't like me. I don't care if they are judging me. They are not better than me. I am minding my own business. Not caring isn't even a struggle. It now requires EFFORT and CONCENTRATION *to* care. As a result I now like people, I smile at people, I share a joke with strangers. I want to achieve something now. I want to go 'out there' and meet people and do something. I understand emotions more now and what people get out of socialising and why it is important and pleasurable. BTW, it is a cocktail of prescription medications and legal supplements that works in my case. It is just a shame it took me 20 years. And my relationship with my parents has improved immeasurably, too. They are happier now, too, I have noticed, since I became more sociable, more talkative and basically happier. We enjoy each other's company.


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## uselessgoodfornothing (Sep 10, 2013)

i do care
thats my problem


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

That is encouraging to read. How did you make you like yourself?


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

Rufus said:


> That is encouraging to read. How did you make you like yourself?


Really just medication. If I am relaxed (I don't mean sedated) then my mind is not running at 100mph worrying about what my speech and what my actions say about me to other people. I used to be OBSESSED with those thoughts, so much so that I stammered (stuttered), was hesitant in speech and movement, and was incredibly depressed because of this CRIPPLING worrying about what people thought about me or if they liked me or not. _I no longer care_. If people don't like me, then they can like someone else. It is no big thing. Perhaps I don't like them too! One last thing, it is pointless listing all the medication I now take as sadly different medication works for different people. One change I have made recently is taking 2-3g of phenibut each day but I stress that when I took it alone or on previous medication it did NOT work. Only taking it on my CURRENT medication does it produce incredible relaxation, a lovely, cosy euphoria and a zero worries. I guess I am lucky.


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## In a Lonely Place (Mar 26, 2012)

Good for you, I think I'm half way there, largely due to meds but just find myself completely lost in life. 
Wish I'd found this state of mind a decade ago as time/age seems very much against me now.
My current confidence and acceptance of myself feels nice even if it is artificially induced.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Good for you, I think I'm half way there, largely due to meds but just find myself completely lost in life.
> *Wish I'd found this state of mind a decade ago as time/age seems very much against me now.
> My current confidence and acceptance of myself feels nice even if it is artificially induced*.


I 100% know how that feels. I guess you feel happy _and_ sad? Happy that you feel better now taking medication BUT sad that you wasted a decade searching for that feeling? THAT is exactly how I felt, but my doctors didn't seem to understand that contradiction/paradox when I told them. They seemed to think that I could (a) feel happy or (b) feel sad, and nothing in between. But my CURRENT contentment MADE me feel at the same time also sad because I wasted a decade of work, education and life to get there.


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## fm5827 (Mar 7, 2011)

Congrats for making such a big improvement. I'm currently the lowest I've been for some time, and I told myself that I wouldn't take medication (never have before) but I think I might have to now, it might be the only way I get better.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

fm5827 said:


> Congrats for making such a big improvement. I'm currently the lowest I've been for some time, and I told myself that I wouldn't take medication (never have before) but I think I might have to now, it might be the only way I get better.


I started medication in 2006 and it caused a quick improvement in my mood and anxiety, but not a life-changing improvement. Be aware that medication is completely a trial-and-error process. There is no 'method' as such that psychiatrists use other than starting with small doses of weak drugs and increasing doses or changing drugs *very* slowly. You'll most likely be started off on fluoxetine (Valium) to treat depression to start with and possibly propranolol as the first 'anxiety' medication. Good luck to you.


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## fm5827 (Mar 7, 2011)

Zack said:


> I started medication in 2006 and it caused a quick improvement in my mood and anxiety, but not a life-changing improvement. Be aware that medication is completely a trial-and-error process. There is no 'method' as such that psychiatrists use other than starting with small doses of weak drugs and increasing doses or changing drugs *very* slowly. You'll most likely be started off on fluoxetine (Valium) to treat depression to start with and possibly propranolol as the first 'anxiety' medication. Good luck to you.


Thanks for the reply, yeah I think its that whole trial and error thing that put me off a bit, but I'm at the stage where I don't think I can look past it anymore. Is it a very long process to get started on meds? Can I just explain my situation to my doctor and she will prescribe me some?


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## In a Lonely Place (Mar 26, 2012)

Zack said:


> I 100% know how that feels. I guess you feel happy _and_ sad? Happy that you feel better now taking medication BUT sad that you wasted a decade searching for that feeling? THAT is exactly how I felt, but my doctors didn't seem to understand that contradiction/paradox when I told them. They seemed to think that I could (a) feel happy or (b) feel sad, and nothing in between. But my CURRENT contentment MADE me feel at the same time also sad because I wasted a decade of work, education and life to get there.


Yeah I'm pretty happy around my family/relatives now, even my interactions with shop staff and people in general have improved.
Just feel kind of down when I think about how I move forward from here, my generation are light years ahead of me in every way possible so just gotta invent a life worth living and stop dwelling on what could have been or the wasted years.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

fm5827 said:


> Thanks for the reply, yeah I think its that whole trial and error thing that put me off a bit, but I'm at the stage where I don't think I can look past it anymore. Is it a very long process to get started on meds? Can I just explain my situation to my doctor and she will prescribe me some?


No, starting medication is quick because the doctors realise that depression can be fatal if it is left untreated. So I got Prozac on my FIRST visit to GP (family doctor) in 2006. Likewise, years ago (2000) when I presented with anxiety at university I was given a propranolol prescription at first visit. Starting is quick, but the whole process of changing doses and meds is slow.


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

Zack said:


> Really just medication. If I am relaxed (I don't mean sedated) then my mind is not running at 100mph worrying about what my speech and what my actions say about me to other people. I used to be OBSESSED with those thoughts, so much so that I stammered (stuttered), was hesitant in speech and movement, and was incredibly depressed because of this CRIPPLING worrying about what people thought about me or if they liked me or not. _I no longer care_. If people don't like me, then they can like someone else. It is no big thing. Perhaps I don't like them too! One last thing, it is pointless listing all the medication I now take as sadly different medication works for different people. One change I have made recently is taking 2-3g of phenibut each day but I stress that when I took it alone or on previous medication it did NOT work. Only taking it on my CURRENT medication does it produce incredible relaxation, a lovely, cosy euphoria and a zero worries. I guess I am lucky.


But when you like some one, that is more nerve wracking. How do you cope with liking a person? Some one(s) could come up and **** you from behind if you like a person. What then?


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

Rufus said:


> But when you like some one, that is more nerve wracking. How do you cope with liking a person? Some one(s) could come up and **** you from behind if you like a person. What then?


If you like a person and they "**** you from behind" then you just gotta let them go. You can't force someone to like you even if you are popular, attractive and extroverted, much less if you are shy. You need to accept this to move on.


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

Ok.

I'm nervous about your using phenibut with your medicine. Did you tell your doctor you use phenibut? I'm afraid it could lead to a frightening level of tolerance, using it regularly. I have learned I cannot cope with the lows, personally.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

Rufus said:


> Ok.
> 
> I'm nervous about your using phenibut with your medicine. Did you tell your doctor you use phenibut? *I'm afraid it could lead to a frightening level of tolerance, using it regularly. I have learned I cannot cope with the lows*, personally.


If that happens I will destroy myself.


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

Then I suggest not using it to feel euphoric, but to take it with friend(s), if you have some.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

Rufus said:


> Then I suggest not using it to feel euphoric, but to take it with friend(s), if you have some.


I don't have any friends, actually. I haven't had a friend since I was about 12. I can't help the euphoria as I experience it at low doses. I hear of people taking dumb amounts like 4g three times a day or something and having no rest days. And then they complain of tolerance and withdrawal issues. I average 2-3g per day split into about 3-4 doses. I do this for 4 consecutive days and then I have 3 days completely off it. This saves money and reduces the possibility of tolerance and bad stuff happening. Unfortunately I discovered a week or two ago that moderate amounts of booze seriously potentiate and multiply the phenibut high so I am back on it again.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

I problem is unknown. I been having this since i was born.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

Zack said:


> I always thought my anxiety was the major problem and the cause of everything else. I always thought that being anxious all the time made me sad and so caused my depression which in turn caused more anxiety and so on in a loop. But I now know that SELF-ESTEEM is the root cause of my problems. If a person likes him- or herself, he or she doesn't feel inferior to other people and so he or she isn't nervous around people. I also suddenly believe in the "chemical imbalance" theory as just a change in medication means _I don't care what other people think about me_. I don't care if people don't like me. I don't care if they are judging me. They are not better than me. I am minding my own business. Not caring isn't even a struggle. It now requires EFFORT and CONCENTRATION *to* care. As a result I now like people, I smile at people, I share a joke with strangers. I want to achieve something now. I want to go 'out there' and meet people and do something. I understand emotions more now and what people get out of socialising and why it is important and pleasurable. BTW, it is a cocktail of prescription medications and legal supplements that works in my case. It is just a shame it took me 20 years. And my relationship with my parents has improved immeasurably, too. They are happier now, too, I have noticed, since I became more sociable, more talkative and basically happier. We enjoy each other's company.


That's awesome. Congrats on the progress and personal growth.


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## tonyhd71 (Jul 27, 2014)

Zack said:


> Really just medication. If I am relaxed (I don't mean sedated) then my mind is not running at 100mph worrying about what my speech and what my actions say about me to other people. I used to be OBSESSED with those thoughts, so much so that I stammered (stuttered), was hesitant in speech and movement, and was incredibly depressed because of this CRIPPLING worrying about what people thought about me or if they liked me or not. _I no longer care_. If people don't like me, then they can like someone else. It is no big thing. Perhaps I don't like them too! One last thing, it is pointless listing all the medication I now take as sadly different medication works for different people. One change I have made recently is taking 2-3g of phenibut each day but I stress that when I took it alone or on previous medication it did NOT work. Only taking it on my CURRENT medication does it produce incredible relaxation, a lovely, cosy euphoria and a zero worries. I guess I am lucky.


Do you mind telling us what medications you currently use? I know everyone is different but I would still like to know.

I have another question also. Do you only feel relaxed when under the effects of medication or even when you are not under the effects?


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

I know the generic names mostly:

- Venlafaxine (Effexor)
- Mirtazapine
- Quetiapine
- Clonazepam (Klonopin)

And the phenibut. Sometimes booze.

Phenibut use over weeks and months causes constipation and difficulty urinating.


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## imanonymous2 (Apr 14, 2014)

Zack said:


> But I now know that SELF-ESTEEM is the root cause of my problems. If a person likes him- or herself, he or she doesn't feel inferior to other people


Awesome job, so true.


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