# Single



## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

Think I am going to stay that way. :yes


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## fences (Jun 15, 2009)

I think alot of us here are single and think we are going to stay that way .

Different reasons though!


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## tigerlilly (Mar 30, 2009)

are you staying that way because you want to?


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## aphrodite (Jul 16, 2009)

I am single but I have hope.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

I guess that's good if that's what you want. Kinda tired of the single life myself~


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## dunky (Jul 10, 2009)

Just Lurking said:


> I guess that's good if that's what you want. Kinda tired of the single life myself~


Same here.


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## Metallic (Apr 6, 2009)

Single life feels the best when you first get out of a relationship, but then it gets old.


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## LostPancake (Apr 8, 2009)

I heard a married woman say once that she was SO JEALOUS OF SINGLE PEOPLE! That kind of blew my mind, lol.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Metallic said:


> Single life feels the best when you first get out of a relationship, but then it gets old.


Totally. But then the opposite is usually true too, it seems - it's just a matter of how long it takes for any given relationship.

Honest question for the older/more experienced folks here: is it even possible to be in a long-term relationship OR perpetually single for years on end and stay at least reasonably content with that same situation? We're brought up to believe we should all pair off and live happily ever after, but I get more and more cynical all the time about whether that's even possible.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm single now, but I have been in a couple of long-term relationships. I'd like to be in another, however, if it doesn't happen, I'm okay with that. At my age, I'm kind of set in my ways.


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## tigerlilly (Mar 30, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Totally. But then the opposite is usually true too, it seems - it's just a matter of how long it takes for any given relationship.
> 
> Honest question for the older/more experienced folks here: is it even possible to be in a long-term relationship OR perpetually single for years on end and stay at least reasonably content with that same situation? We're brought up to believe we should all pair off and live happily ever after, but I get more and more cynical all the time about whether that's even possible.


i know your question wasn't directed at me, but let me tell you... my parents have been *happily* married for 26 years. 6 years ago my dad was in a car accident and is now severely paralysed, and their relationship is stronger than before, if anything. so yes, it is possible to be in a long-term relationship and stay at least reasonably content with it.


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## LoneLioness (Nov 16, 2003)

What happened? Thought you were with Noca.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

tigerlilly said:


> i know your question wasn't directed at me, but let me tell you... my parents have been *happily* married for 26 years. 6 years ago my dad was in a car accident and is now severely paralysed, and their relationship is stronger than before, if anything. so yes, it is possible to be in a long-term relationship and stay at least reasonably content with it.


That's cool. My parents have also been married something like 25 years, and have never been on the brink of divorce or anything like that. They always went out of their way to maintain a stable household for my sister and I; i.e., big fights between them were pretty rare. Yet I feel like when I "read between the lines," I can tell there's a bit of boredom or distance between them emotionally. And since they, unlike so many other married couples, are at least able to maintain constant civility with each other, I start to wonder if their loving but slightly stale relationship is the _best case_ scenario once you've lived with someone for, say, a decade or more. Or at the very least, if anything better (i.e., still exciting and passionate) is extremely rare.

Yeah, I'm not threadjacking or anything here (LOL)... let's all get back to celebrating of our perpetual singledom.


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## voodoochild16 (Jan 20, 2009)

We're all remaining single because we're much more prone to it, but we don't have much of a choice do we? well we do... but it's damn hard.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

you are better off that way


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

I'd rather be single, sometimes. Less anxiety for me.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

anomalous said:


> Totally. But then the opposite is usually true too, it seems - it's just a matter of how long it takes for any given relationship.
> 
> Honest question for the older/more experienced folks here: is it even possible to be in a long-term relationship OR perpetually single for years on end and stay at least reasonably content with that same situation? We're brought up to believe we should all pair off and live happily ever after, but I get more and more cynical all the time about whether that's even possible.


oh yeah, it's possible.

just mainly comes down to what you want in life (???)

i could probably be just as content single as in a relationship but then again i'm not sure if i'd ever go so well in a full blown relationship.

Plus, if getting into a relationship is the only way for me to get sex, then it would put me off both most likely, hence reinforcing disillusionment of my solitude.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I'd have a relationship if only I could find somebody who was like me. Problem: I seem to be one of a kind.


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## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

LoneLioness said:


> What happened? Thought you were with Noca.


He dumped me and went off on me and called me all these horrible names and things.

I told him that I was a handful and hard to deal with.

I am sure it is probably something I did or said. I don't know but he didn't have to call me all those horrible things. <stomps foot, crosses arms>


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

No Comment


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

anomalous said:


> Honest question for the older/more experienced folks here: is it even possible to be in a long-term relationship OR perpetually single for years on end and stay at least reasonably content with that same situation? We're brought up to believe we should all pair off and live happily ever after, but I get more and more cynical all the time about whether that's even possible.


I have been married for eight years and I am happy. I have a very good marriage.

My first marriage, however, was horrible and ended in a bitter divorce.

I married the wrong person and for the wrong reasons the first time around. But I was young and the old saw about love being blind is very true. It taught me a great deal and I got a great kid out of the relationship so it wasnt all bad.

I also waited an entire decade to marry again and was much more sure of who I was and what I wanted the second time around.

Around here the general consensus seems to be against marraige and I guess that is up to the individual. Marriage requires work and compromise; two factors that a lot of people seemingly arent interested in doing.


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## Hot Chocolate (Sep 29, 2008)

Some people should just stay single. It will be good for them.


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## eileenAKAmommy (Jul 7, 2009)

I am not single. If I were, it would be easier. Someone with SA plus a social butterfly... DON'T MESH!


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

MissMay1977 said:


> He dumped me and went off on me and called me all these horrible names and things.
> 
> I told him that I was a handful and hard to deal with.
> 
> I am sure it is probably something I did or said. I don't know but he didn't have to call me all those horrible things. <stomps foot, crosses arms>


yes, i know what you are referring to, i have him on my fb/msn. :roll
i do'nt know any details but i'm sure its just out of frustration from the situation. don't take it seriously, or personally, some people just have trouble controlling their anger and say hurtful but meaningless **** as a result.
don't let it get to you anymore, as it's just not worth it. cut off contact, put it all behind you. 
go out, have fun with your friends, and just surround yourself with positive people/energy.


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

:sus


MissMay1977 said:


> Think I am going to stay that way. :yes


Ditto. I find it too frightening to get too close to another person. It may be due to many reasons, one of which i believe is the fact that I fared and managed to achieve targets better when i did everything alone. I know it sounds kind of selfish, but I think it may be because I subconsciously think that having a person close to me is going to be a drag on my life. I don't want to feel this way, I know it's unnatural, but i can't help it.

Heh, i think i came off as a right freak in the paragraph above.:sus


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## tigerlilly (Mar 30, 2009)

Hadron said:


> Ditto. I find it too frightening to get too close to another person. It may be due to many reasons, one of which i believe is the fact that I fared and managed to achieve targets better when i did everything alone. I know it sounds kind of selfish, but I think it may be because I subconsciously think that having a person close to me is going to be a drag on my life. I don't want to feel this way, I know it's unnatural, but i can't help it.


i'm kind of the opposite. i'm afraid of getting too close, but at the same time i'm a pretty dependent person.

at least, i think so. i guess i won't know until i get into a relationship, if i ever do. XD


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

Metallic said:


> Single life feels the best when you first get out of a relationship, but then it gets old.


I agree. I've been single for three years.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

Being single could be great for me. I have a lot more time to work and pursue hobbies since I've always been single. The problem is that I'm human, and I get lonely.


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## S.T.A.T. (Jan 17, 2009)

LostPancake said:


> I heard a married woman say once that she was SO JEALOUS OF SINGLE PEOPLE! That kind of blew my mind, lol.


And some single people are so jealous of married/taken people.

I guess some people don't always appreciate what they have right now.


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## GirlInABox (Jan 1, 2009)

LostPancake said:


> I heard a married woman say once that she was SO JEALOUS OF SINGLE PEOPLE! That kind of blew my mind, lol.


I'm more jealous of the married woman lol but probably because I've never really been in a relationship before.

I sometimes wish I wasn't single, but I teeter between hope and despair that I will ever be in a relationship, though sometimes I think I may just be better off not ever being with someone since sometimes it seems to be more pain then happiness. I kind of feel like that sort of girl that guys would just use as a doormat and cheat on. My parents have been married for over 25 years and for all I know my dad has been faithful to my mom, so I guess this fear just has to do with my lack of self confidence in myself.


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## Freedom2010 (Jan 29, 2009)

I'm single, but I daydream all the time about being with my crush


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

LostPancake said:


> I heard a married woman say once that she was SO JEALOUS OF SINGLE PEOPLE! That kind of blew my mind, lol.


I've been there! I think I'm gonna stay single too.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

If a married person is jealous of someone single, they're with the wrong person. That is all.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Just Lurking said:


> If a married person is jealous of someone single, they're with the wrong person. That is all.


yes. or there are aspects of the relationship that should change.

i definitely crave being around a guy, being close to this hypothetical guy both emotionally and physically. 
but there are a lot of things i would dislike about a relationship. there are many expectations that scare me and are completely foreign but in many relationships they are seen as being "essential"... i did once try being with someone but it was so so difficult for me. i'm just very independant and need so much of my alone time. i would want something much more casual and relaxed if i was in a relationship, but it seems hard to do that if the other person wants what is considered to be "normal" relationship, and that seems to be the norm. :sigh


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## fluidglide (Mar 1, 2009)

*here is something fo you all to remember*

golden rule #1

a girl CHOOSES to be single, most of the time. a guy is often single INVOLUNTARILY.

golden rule #2

in the system we are talking about, there is only two states. single or IAR (in a relationship)

it is a fundamental natural law that it is easier and FASTER to go from IAR--->single than to go in the opposite direction single--->IAR, at least for guys.

golden rule #3,

when you are IAR, you can CHOOSE to be single or stay IAR.

when you are single, you CANNOT choose to be IAR or single, at least in the relatively quicker time span for the opposite state.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

fluidglide said:


> golden rule #1
> 
> a girl CHOOSES to be single, most of the time. a guy is often single INVOLUNTARILY.


Oh boy...not this again =/


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

About 6-9 months ago, I was fuming with jealousy for married people.
That was until I found out just what I have accomplished since my father died. There is NO WAY I could have accomplished this much and be married - plain and simple.

I cook, I clean, I pay bills, I do the yard, I garden, I work, I run, I ride bicycles, I am legal guardian of a parent - who I check in on.

Everybody around me, including my friends, counselor, and family, are shocked at how much I have grown.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

huh said:


> Oh boy...not this again =/


haha yea really, lets not go there again


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## fences (Jun 15, 2009)

fluidglide said:


> golden rule #1
> 
> a girl CHOOSES to be single, most of the time. a guy is often single INVOLUNTARILY.
> 
> ...


I like this guy, and the way he thinks.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I've always been single, and I hate it. I'd love to be in a relationship, even a bad one.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

fences said:


> I like this guy, and the way he thinks.


Aside from the fact that he is wrong. Experience has shown me that It is difficult for both genders to begin a relationship. It has little to do with choosing to be in one or not. There are conditions that make it more difficult for an individual regardless of gender or even orientation. As sufferers of SA we are prejudiced away from relationships even though we may crave them.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Amocholes said:


> Aside from the fact that he is wrong. Experience has shown me that It is difficult for both genders to begin a relationship. It has little to do with choosing to be in one or not. There are conditions that make it more difficult for an individual regardless of gender or even orientation. As sufferers of SA we are prejudiced away from relationships even though we may crave them.


Exactly. It's no harder for men than for women.


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

I would love to be in a relationship. I want to be able to one day say "My boyfriend and I are..." or "My boyfriend just called" or "My boyfriend is meeting me..."


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

EagerMinnow84 said:


> I would love to be in a relationship. I want to be able to one day say "My boyfriend and I are..." or "My boyfriend just called" or "My boyfriend is meeting me..."


Same with me, except replace boyfriend with girlfriend.


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## fences (Jun 15, 2009)

Amocholes said:


> Aside from the fact that he is wrong. Experience has shown me that It is difficult for both genders to begin a relationship. It has little to do with choosing to be in one or not. There are conditions that make it more difficult for an individual regardless of gender or even orientation. As sufferers of SA we are prejudiced away from relationships even though we may crave them.


Of course everything he said was exagerated. #1 in particular is probably most incorrect out of the lot. But the other things he said were a pretty good refutation of this whole "I'd like to be single" thing. No, No you wouldn't. It sucks. Trust me. It is MUCH more difficult to go from single to a relationship than the other way around. Especially for SAers.


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## dollparts (May 26, 2009)

I think it is going to be that way for a long time, too many issues and personal things I need to get over.


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## Toad Licker (Nov 2, 2007)

I've been single for a while now, I wouldn't mind being in a relationship though.


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## AliBaba (Nov 16, 2005)

I've been single for about 2 years & i'm kind of enjoying it...lol. I have lots of things I like to do in my free time & maybe I'm a little selfish ;-) 

On the other hand, I've been feeling that "itch" (if you will) the last 2 months or so! Hopefully my time alone will help future endeavors work out better. Maybe I'll think with my brain rather than my body part that can't be mentioned!


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

fluidglide said:


> golden rule #1
> 
> a girl CHOOSES to be single, most of the time. a guy is often single INVOLUNTARILY.


Sure, he's making an inappropriate and completely unwarranted generalization about men and women, but the very fact that we're seeing this AGAIN as others have pointed out does offer some support to his point. There seem to be a lot more bitter and single men out there than single women. Besides, I know many more single men that are looking than single women (and of those few that are "single," many are sleeping around). I have two female friend who are about as attractive as I am (I think, perhaps a little more attractive) who recently broke up with their boyfriends and sat on the market for a grand total of about 2 weeks before they were snatched up again. It's hard not to be bitter when we lonely guys consider things like that. I don't agree with him, but I understand him.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> Sure, he's making an inappropriate and completely unwarranted generalization about men and women, but the very fact that we're seeing this AGAIN as others have pointed out does offer some support to his point. There seem to be a lot more bitter and single men out there than single women. Besides, I know many more single men that are looking than single women (and of those few that are "single," many are sleeping around). I have two female friend who are about as attractive as I am (I think, perhaps a little more attractive) who recently broke up with their boyfriends and sat on the market for a grand total of about 2 weeks before they were snatched up again. It's hard not to be bitter when we lonely guys consider things like that. I don't agree with him, but I understand him.


Well, after being here on SAS, I've heard of some girls who are depressed because they never ever get asked out. You gotta feel for them. At least we guys can assume that we aren't asking out the right girls. Hard to do that when you're a girl who's out there and never seems to be desired by anyone.

But, like you, I can understand. I mean hell, I'm a guy. I often think about how unfair it is that we are expected to initiate, whereas women can be passive.

Generally when I think that way, I just try to see it from the female perspective, as I said above with some girls never getting asked out.

Of course, trying to see the other side of the issue is hard when you're a never-been-kissed 22 year old with several rejections under your belt, but I'll save that rant for another thread. :-/

I can't believe this thread hasn't gotten locked yet


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## nihlanth1 (Oct 24, 2008)

Consider this:

A shy girl that never got asked out in her life to suddenly ask some lonely-looking shy guy at random for a date. It is more likely that the guy will not reject her for a date. Even though a relationship may not form from that date. Still, a date is a date. The only reason a guy would reject her is because of her looks. It is very rare that a guy would be content with being single all his life.

If a lonely guy asks a lonley girl on a date, it is more likely that the lonely girl _will_ reject the lonely shy guy, because she is not getting the 'outgoing' vibe from him, or she is content with being single, or she is afraid of dating, or she doesnt think he looks good.

These are scenarios that are not true 100% of the time, _but I will be willing to wager that it is true at least 51% of the time._

All in all, it is more difficult for a shy guy to convince a shy girl to go on a date, than a shy girl to convince a shy guy - since girls have a longer list of 'requirements' before accepting a date with a guy.

I do concede that once in a relationship, both women and men have it bad if there are problems in a relationship.

But the pre-relationship courting stage is tipped in favor of women in general, as well as the alpha male types that date multiple girls at once without their knowing. As a result, both the alpha and beta females are taken by the alpha males while the beta male develops his relationship with his left hand.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

nihlanth1 said:


> Consider this:
> 
> A shy girl that never got asked out in her life to suddenly ask some lonely-looking shy guy at random for a date. It is more likely that the guy will not reject her for a date. Even though a relationship may not form from that date. Still, a date is a date. The only reason a guy would reject her is because of her looks. It is very rare that a guy would be content with being single all his life.
> 
> ...


Yeah, this thread is definitely headed for lockdown city....


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## unusual condition (Jun 17, 2009)

I need a girl.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

continuously complaining about how much worse men have it, despite possibly not even having enough first hand experience particularly on all the assumptions towards how it is for women, is just ****ing pointless and beginning to seem like a cop-out for not having ever been in a relationship, or for having been rejected.

not to mention the fact that i would HOPE society is starting or attempting to veer away from these gender roles that may or may not have been consciously enforced. still ruminating on how there once was a time when men were always expected to initiate relations (to the extreme where in some cultures men were to pick their bride who would be forced to marry them, and women who have no say in it whatsoever) is practically counter active and almost passive in the way that you are "giving in" to those roles..


maybe i'm talking **** cause i'm getting drowsy from the meds, but christ those discussions on which gender has it worse are just so ****ing stupid and they seem to put way too much focus on our gender as the explanation/reason to how we are rather than considering the hundreds other aspects of ourselves that make us an individual. (IMO gender is almost a minor detail in that sense.) basically, going on and on about that **** is just widening the gap between the two genders even further (in terms of all the assumed huge differences towards them in the past centuries) when we should be doing the opposite, i think.


Amocholes put it perfectly earlier on in the thread, anyway.


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## unusual condition (Jun 17, 2009)

Damn, you people need to relax. Seriously, you are arguing about some dumb sh*t.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

haha, yeah, i know i prob get too worked up over this **** too


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

unusual condition said:


> I need a girl.


Join the club, man.



unusual condition said:


> Damn, you people need to relax. Seriously, you are arguing about some dumb sh*t.


Pain breeds strong opinions. If there's one certainty of human existence, it's that both genders have a knack for inflicting the worst kinds of pain on the opposite gender.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

nothing to fear said:


> continuously complaining about how much worse men have it, despite possibly not even having enough first hand experience particularly on all the assumptions towards how it is for women, is just ****ing pointless and beginning to seem like a cop-out for not having ever been in a relationship, or for having been rejected.
> 
> not to mention the fact that i would HOPE society is starting or attempting to veer away from these gender roles that may or may not have been consciously enforced. still ruminating on how there once was a time when men were always expected to initiate relations (to the extreme where in some cultures men were to pick their bride who would be forced to marry them, and women who have no say in it whatsoever) is practically counter active and almost passive in the way that you are "giving in" to those roles..
> 
> ...


I'm not endorsing any of the claims that guys have everything 50x worse, but I would be interested to hear girls' responses to this question: why is it that this topic comes up so often and is virtually always initiated by men? Why aren't there an equal number of women complaning that their gender has it worse in terms of dating and relationships? STKinthemud's comment a few posts back got me thinking about this. And I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, either; I'm perfectly willing to accept the possibility that more guys are just whiny, lazy *******s who love to be victims (hell, I know I pretty much fit that description, sad to say). But it is an interesting phenomenon, I think.


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## unusual condition (Jun 17, 2009)

More guys complain about it than girls because each guy knows that he is supposed to be the one to make the first move on a girl. And socially anxious guys have a hard time doing this, but they know they have to, so they complain about it being harder for them to get into a relationship.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

anomalous said:


> I'm not endorsing any of the claims that guys have everything 50x worse, but I would be interested to hear girls' responses to this question: why is it that this topic comes up so often and is virtually always initiated by men? Why aren't there an equal number of women complaning that their gender has it worse in terms of dating and relationships? STKinthemud's comment a few posts back got me thinking about this. And I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, either; I'm perfectly willing to accept the possibility that more guys are just whiny, lazy *******s who love to be victims (hell, I know I pretty much fit that description, sad to say). But it is an interesting phenomenon, I think.


Yeah an interesting question. Girls don't really seem to complain all that much. That's an easy observation. It doesn't go without saying though that they never had things any harder than males.

I'm not really interested in these types of arguments about gender roles and the likes as I do not feel passionate about them, but I can see where both males and females come from in that there are ups and downs for both sexes. Males have been cockblocks to females in the past, but by the same token there are some things now where evidently woman may have some things better off, or maybe not. That's just another one of my observations.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Well isn't this a fun argument. Come on people, why are why again arguing a bitter truth; let's not get this thread locked, I hate it when that happens.

We know the issue exists, but people get offended by it. Its one of those things people don't like to hear about because lets face it.... we're not supposed to complain.

The no# 1 dating advice for single men, on *any* website / book / study / tv show is confidence.

Our only choice is to grow some chest hair, or die single.

In response to the actuall thread starter. I would only enjoy my singlehood if it was a choice.


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## nihlanth1 (Oct 24, 2008)

VIncymon said:


> We know the issue exists, but people get offended by it. Its one of those things people don't like to hear about because lets face it.... we're not supposed to complain.


We're not supposed to complain because according to MSM and society in general, men are not supposed to show emotions.

It makes perfect sense that we all bottle it up all our lives, and then implode like a ticking time bomb later.

It is what it is I guess. Nobody wants to do anything about so...people will continue to go on random killing rampages until the very fabric that holds civilization together is destroyed for all I care.

It is no wonder why most of the people who go 'postal' are nearly all men.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

last ranting/long post i promise









we can likely think of a lot of **** that makes certain things in life significantly more difficult for women than men.
but it's still the whole "grass is greener on the other side" thing and as said before people of every gender, race, sexual orientation, etc etc have many obstacles they will have to face in life. they are not all exactly the same and some tend to have to face different issues but saying one is worse off because of that is pretty far from the truth.

and there are aspects of dating/relationships that women have just as bad, and some that are even more important that we have to deal with but i won't bother listing them off since i'd be doing the same i was just complaining about and i still don't like making the generalizations on a whole gender since i see many males here complain about those issues as well that i face.

and for the record, approaching a person and asking them out on a date, or initiating a relationship counts for as small as 5% honestly. one of the problems that depressed me is how i was never approached, asked out or hit on for the first 18 years of my life, if i was with friends and guys would come up to us they would only talk to the other girls i was with and not even look at me. i was certain that if i was in their position it'd be a major change in my confidence and anxiety. then i did start to get approached, when i incidentally started caring about my appearance and wearing skirts and dresses, and hey apparently that doesn't change things. my SA has improved over the years and i do get "hit on" regularly but despite that when i make eye contact with a guy my heart still pounds (and not in a good way), i get shakey, i suddenly get really hot (among a few of the anxiety symptoms). it's even worse when i have tried to get to know a guy and within minutes they will complain about how i don't talk and how incredibly shy i am. i knew a guy for weeks and months and he said i need to just relax and that i've never once made eye contact with him. i'm also told on how i need to start flirting or teasing guys, since i'm supposed to but i don't. i've been in these situations countless times but when i'm in public and get attention from guys - i.e. get yelled on, get whistled to, get approached by more than one guy - it still makes me uncomfortable, (sometimes) makes me panic, makes me anxious, one of my most common thoughts being "**** i just want to get away as soon as possible...".

but anyway, a bit of a rant there (yet again), just sayin' that girls with low self-confidence still have to deal with as much **** and still have it just as hard ("confidence is sexy" is a popular phrase i hear from so many guys...).

in addition i'd like to point out that SAS is by far the place where i see guys complain most about how the reason they are single is because they are male and have the much higher expectations to have confidence and assertiveness. 
i do know it's because we all here likely deal with confidence issues but a lot of it is because our perception is so skewed already and we don't always see things as they really are.
if someone on another forum, or even just in person said "a girl choose to be single, most of the time. a guy is often single involuntarily", they will probably get a few laughs. if not laughs at least someone would point out how ridiculous of a statement it is.

ALSO my ranting on this isn't exactly to point out any sexism, it's mostly to illustrate that with SA we exaggerate the difficult of situations so so much. i can honestly say that 98% of the situations that us with social anxiety worry about are not even close to being that scary or unattainable or impossible.
i know it doesn't completely eliminate my worry to know that, but it's always something we should keep in mind.

and, as well, no one is ever single "involuntarily". you are CHOOSING to avoid situations, to avoid girls you like, to avoid asking anyone out, to look at rejection as if it the end of the world, to give up on relationships, etc.


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## jane (Jan 30, 2006)

anomalous said:


> I'm not endorsing any of the claims that guys have everything 50x worse, but I would be interested to hear girls' responses to this question: why is it that this topic comes up so often and is virtually always initiated by men? Why aren't there an equal number of women complaning that their gender has it worse in terms of dating and relationships?


I think it's due to overly rigid gender roles and PUA culture. 
In reality, lots of girls I know chase after guys. But the stereotype is that girls should wait passively until a guy chooses them. If you buy into that, then you're going to feel like **** when you don't get picked, like something is wrong with you, like you're ugly and defective. You're going to start self-loathing posts. 
In reality, guys need a lot of encouragement. But some guys buy into the idea that they should always be the initiators. Pick-up artists tell you that you should be able to get any woman you want, that you should never be friends with a woman first, that you can pick up strangers in the park, at parties, at clubs. When they make all the "right moves," when they're following all 37 steps that Mystery or David DeAngelo or whoever told them to, and they still haven't succeeded, it's the woman's fault. It's something wrong with the women. You're going to start women-hating posts.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Advisory****
Make sure this stays on topic and does not become a gender war, or the watch/warning goes up.

I keep telling you that no one gender has it worse - we have differing areas. Men and women are the same, but opposite in some areas. It's "compl*e*mentary".

Society is messed up the way it is.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> I'd love to be in a relationship, even a bad one.


Haha, I doubt that, bro.:b


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

millenniumman75 said:


> Society is messed up the way it is.


To everyone who has been talking about "society:"

It's too easy to blame this nebulous, undefined thing we call "society" and leave it at that, to lump together so many disparate social circles into a single overpowering thing outside ourselves. The problem with that is that we are a part of that society, and the very fact that we contradict and hate it suggests that we can't really blame it for all the ills we suffer. The fact of the matter is that each of us define our own societies, and if we don't like the way society is, we can change it. It seems that there are a lot of people, both men and women, that do not want to buy into this gender dynamic (if it really exists), and vocalize their distaste with it, yet affirm it in action.

The fact of the matter is that we are NOT victims of society. In fact, we have power over society because we can change it by simply talking about social details. Not a lot of us realize this, but society is certainly slowly changing, and the idea that women can't ask men out and that men must make the first move is being challenged and slowly changing. For us bitter men, there is hope. For women, there is equality.


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## AliBaba (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm going to cross the gender line & say I have to agree with almost everything "nothing to fear" has posted(& holy f*** was it alot ;-). Let's hypothetically say men have it worse off in this area. So what? Are we here at SAS going to lead the next cultural revolution?? I would guess not considering we have no public speaking skills.

Our only chance is to find a way to play the game somehow and the game can vary greatly from person to person. I know that involves extreme anxiety/panic for some people & it is the hardest thing in the world. But you can bet that anxiety over asking someone out/worry over what the girl thinks extends well beyond the borders of the Social Anxiety Community(are we a community?). So you're not as alone with this issue as you think.

Of course, feel free to continue to complain about the same topic over & over again until you're blue in the face. I know I do plenty of that.

A huge shout out to Nothing To Fear for her structured ranting!!!


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Nice to see this discussion reach a point of relative peace as it has now. I hope I don't disrupt that peace.

I think that this is simply the wrong place to have this discussion about SA and gender. Men here are frustrated. Women here are frustrated. Claiming that one group is more frustrated, or maybe more accurately, comes by their frustration more legitimately undermines the feelings of the other group. If I've had 2 teeth pulled and you say you've had 3 teeth pulled, your comment doesn't make my mouth stop hurting and it does make me think that you're denying me some part of my pain, whatever your intent.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Atticus said:


> Nice to see this discussion reach a point of relative peace as it has now.


Well, I was gonna post something, but this entire debate is one big circlejerk, so I'll bite my tongue instead.:um

We should have a single sticky thread where we can quarantine all the "gender war" flaming, to keep it from cropping up in other threads. I think it's obvious that trying to suppress it doesn't work. The opinions (and pain) on both sides is too great.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

hahaha i need to get off SAS (and the internet) after taking my adderall since i always tend to go off on these long, unnecessary tangents when provoked by the smallest thing. :lol


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

I've never really deliberately chosen to be nervous or to not have enough confidence with woman or other situations in my life, it was only ever how I chose to react to them based on a logical thinking process that determined the overall outcome. Like nothing to fear has already alluded to, in reference to those of us suffering from confidence issues and social anxiety, many disparities are revealed in our perception as a result of waywardness, further exacerbating our tendencies for sensationalising the reality of the issue at hand.

As an example completely unpertainable to the whole male vs female phenomenon, I would like to state that this has been the very case with myself when facing harassment in the workplace.. 

I am expected to apply confidence to every facet of my working life and if I do not, then I can be assured I will suffer a long and miserable journey. bleh*


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Witan said:


> Well, I was gonna post something, but this entire debate is one big circlejerk, so I'll bite my tongue instead.:um
> 
> We should have a single sticky thread where we can quarantine all the "gender war" flaming, to keep it from cropping up in other threads. I think it's obvious that trying to suppress it doesn't work. The opinions (and pain) on both sides is too great.


Witan is right. This a forum for the socially anxious. We have things we need to get off our chest. We have frustrations. This discussion needs a thread for itself, or it will keep popping up again, and again. Besides, this is supposed to be part of the "controversal" section in any case.

According to the Irish "The full person doesn't understand the needs of the Hungry."

It is easy to sit on the otherside of the field and say, such people from such group are exaggerating their pain... but the truth is, especially for sexes, one can never truly fathom the needs/wants/ struggles of the other.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

VIncymon said:


> ....According to the Irish "The full person doesn't understand the needs of the Hungry."
> 
> It is easy to sit on the otherside of the field and say, such people from such group are exaggerating their pain... but the truth is, *especially for sexes, one can never truly fathom the needs/wants/ struggles of the other.*


My point would be that most everyone here is "hungry", and what's gained by claiming or even demonstrating that one group's deprivation exceeds another's?

It's quite valid for a man to come on here and bemoan the difficulty he has starting a conversation with a woman. It may or may not be real productive, but it's a real issue and venting about it seems legitimate enough to me. It's the claim that what we go through is worse that crosses a line, especially when you admit that we can't really know what the other gender faces.


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## LostPancake (Apr 8, 2009)

whiterabbit said:


> Maybe we should all embrace homosexuality. Sometimes, I get the feeling that the people in the GLBT forum are laughing at us.


um, there's something to say about this, but it would so obviously cause a thread lock, i can't say it.

and yeah nothing to fear, thanks for writing that - i never really understood the pov of an attractive woman with sa. but now i do a little better.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Witan said:


> Well, I was gonna post something, but this entire debate is one big circlejerk, so I'll bite my tongue instead.:um
> 
> We should have a single sticky thread where we can quarantine all the "gender war" flaming, to keep it from cropping up in other threads. I think it's obvious that trying to suppress it doesn't work. The opinions (and pain) on both sides is too great.


i think there is still the warning/enforced rule that comparing who is worse off than others in terms of their SA is unacceptable (whether it's related to the gender comparisons or other factos) and not tolerated on the forums.. which is good and i agree with.



whiterabbit said:


> Maybe we should all embrace homosexuality. Sometimes, I get the feeling that the people in the GLBT forum are laughing at us.


haha, what do you mean by that? (i mean - the people in the GLBT forum laughing at us)

as for embracing it, then yea, i agree. from the cultures i'm exposed to it certainly is being accepted/embraced.
i find that transsexual/transgender isn't enough, though. i mean, for some people i'm around who are 100% accepting towards homosexuality and who are generally accepting to the idea of trans i'll still hear phrases like "i have nothing at all against trans but it creeped me out a little to see those guys who were so clearly dressed as women". it seems like they are still open to someone identifying with another gender and going through with the changes if the person chooses to, but when it's males openly dressing or identifying as females and when it is very obvious, it makes them uncomfortable. *shrugs*


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

WintersTale said:


> I've always been single, and I hate it. I'd love to be in a relationship, even a bad one.


Trust me. You would rather be single then be in a bad relationship.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

nothing to fear said:


> i think there is still the warning/enforced rule that comparing who is worse off than others in terms of their SA is unacceptable (whether it's related to the gender comparisons or other factos) and not tolerated on the forums.. which is good and i agree with.


And yet it still crops up over and over again. A single sticky would help to "control the chaos", so to speak.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Iread this thread and there is a tap dancing monkey in my head. Good night.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

whatsername75 said:


> I'm sick of being single!! :'(


Well, if it's any consolation, it's hard to imagine that a girl as cute as you is single.


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## scintilla (Dec 10, 2008)

Witan said:


> Well, if it's any consolation, it's hard to imagine that a girl as cute as you is single.


awe thanks Witan! :blush


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## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

awwww


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## Barry Egan (Feb 27, 2005)

whatsername75 said:


> I'm sick of being single!! :'(


I'm sick of being me.
I prefer not going out,so single is what I'll be for the foreseeable future.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Barry Egan said:


> I'm sick of being me.
> I prefer not going out,so single is what I'll be for the foreseeable future.


I'm not opposed to going out occasionally, but considering I just moved back here and have no social network, I say ditto to what you said.


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