# Parenting as an atheist



## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

What about these topics--

My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!

My 7 year old "sort of" believes in god. Should I let him? I don't even know where he's picking this stuff up.


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## Krikorian (May 16, 2011)

LynnNBoys said:


> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!


I think when you know what you believe, it saves a lot of grief in the long run to just be honest about it. Will that stop your mom from pressuring you? Probably not. But at least you can set the religious issue aside and confront the possibility that your mom may not respect your wishes when it comes to your children. If you aren't a Christian, your mother will try to convert your children in the hopes that they will convert you. So, after setting religion aside, you have to establish boundaries.



> My 7 year old "sort of" believes in god. Should I let him?


I'm not a parent, but I would say you might _let_ him without _indulging_ him. Ask him what he means by "God."



> I don't even know where he's picking this stuff up.


"God" and "Jesus" language is ubiquitous. It's hard _not_ to pick it up.


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## Escape Artist (Aug 23, 2011)

Call me intolerant, but I wouldn't want my kid going to Sunday school. Little kids are very impressionable and I don't need someone brainwashing them into believing they'll go to hell for half the things that drive us as humans.


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## surrender to nothing (Jun 18, 2011)

- Tell her you will raise your children as you see fit, and Sunday school doesn't coincide with your method of child rearing. You don't have to make it about your beliefs, or hers, just stick to what parenting methods work for you, if you think that would be better.

- I think you should let him believe whatever he wants to believe. But I think you should also ask him what he thinks about god, and where he heard about god.



> Tonight he asked me how god helps people.


What did you say? He's old enough to ask questions, which means he's old enough to know how you view things. Start telling him if you haven't yet.

Just my common sense approach as a non-parent (but a kid who grew up under Christianity fwiw).


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

> My 7 year old "sort of" believes in god. Should I let him?


Of course you should let him. Leave the childhood indoctrination for the Christians. If he grows up to value evidence as the basis for belief he will eevntually reach the position of atheism on his own. The fact that he wants to talk about god is for the best - a lot of theists are just disinterested people who never really examined their beliefs. At least he won't be having that problem.

If you want to contribute to him not believing in god, I'd suggest just being honest about what you believe and why. He's bringing it up on his own, you might as well answer his questions about what you think if he's asking.


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## WhoAmIToday (Jul 29, 2011)

LynnNBoys said:


> What about these topics--
> 
> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!
> 
> My 7 year old "sort of" believes in god. Should I let him? I don't even know where he's picking this stuff up. Guess I need to ask the atheist parenting forum this stuff. Hoping to get some book ideas appropriate for his age. Tonight he asked me how god helps people. Ugh.


Hello Lynn 

I'd like to preface this with the fact that I am not a parent. I can however, remember my childhood experiences (which were fairly recent) rather well.

Exposure to Deism and Christianity is inevitable and shielding him from it isn't really an option, as you have discovered. You're going to have to have the conversation eventually and it'll be better to have it on your terms.

You can't choose what he believes for him, or at least not so abruptly as "Should I let him?". It's going to be his choice, but he's going to make that choice on the information that he has available to him. Sending him to Sunday school every week will most likely develop a propensity for Christianity or Diesm, *if *the axioms and stories they teach him are left unchallenged. It's my experience in the British preschool iteration of this that every single child at least _appeared _to believe in a God (I can't claim that I was actually there very often though and often protested attending.)

The way in which you choose to address this issue will greatly determine how well he receive what you're saying. Aesops fable _*The North Wind and the Sun *_illustrates what I mean quite well. If you disallow him from believing in a God, you're shooting yourself in the foot. The best way is to reason with him and impart the knowledge that you have and let him make up his own mind. What you want to avoid is the nurturing of a psychological, intellectual or emotional dependance on the religion, and being cross or authoritarian may drive him in that direction. Of course, it's going to be a task that does not include citing pedophile priests or infanticide.

Exposure to other religions is an excellent way to have the conversation in a constructive manner. We actually visited a Hindu temple as part of our first school trip and I remember thinking "WAIT, there are other religions!?" That was most certainly a both eye-opening and _horrific_ experience - all of these people will be on fire forever? I can't say I was ever really a Christian, but I'd always assumed that very few people went to hell, and yet I was presented with the gut-wrenching realization that A LOT of nice people would end up there. I should add at this point that I really enjoyed studying other faiths - far more than the troubling tripe that was forced down my throat at school. ANYWAY, before I digress too much: it's an excellent way to get people thinking at an early age. *Phew*

As for your mother, I'd suggest being tactful. It's really not her decision. I'd suggest something along the lines of saying that you want to introduce him/teach him yourself.

I hope that's in some way useful to you. I'm actually exhausted from writing that, so I'll leave it there. 

Andrew

ALSO
​


LynnNBoys said:


> Does venting about Christians count as bashing? I won't call them names.


No.


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## Jnmcda0 (Nov 28, 2003)

LynnNBoys said:


> What about these topics--


I don't see a problem with it. If other mods feel there is an issue, we can discuss it.



LynnNBoys said:


> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!


You could say you don't want to force your religious beliefs on them and want to let them decide for themselves whether they wish to go to church.



LynnNBoys said:


> My 7 year old "sort of" believes in god. Should I let him? I don't even know where he's picking this stuff up. Guess I need to ask the atheist parenting forum this stuff. Hoping to get some book ideas appropriate for his age. Tonight he asked me how god helps people. Ugh.


I would suggest teaching him to think critically. Don't tell him what to believe, but when he brings it up, ask him what he thinks and why. If he asks you what you believe, answer honestly, but let him know that it is a personal choice.


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

LynnNBoys said:


> What about these topics--
> 
> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!
> 
> ...


Far be it from me to tell you how to raise your own child, I will express my own opinion while emphasising that it is strictly _my opinion_, not advice as such and certainly not imperative. My own experiences derive from being a child of atheist parents who went to a school that pushed christianity on us, and who had very christian neighbours.

I do not think it is morally justifiable for _anyone_ to "let" or "forbid" someone in believing something, and certainly not an atheist, who should have more objective views on matters like dogmatism.

As a child, I "sort of" believed in god, because the teachers at my school all told us he was real, and that we should worship him, and I was of an age where I thought adults were always right. My neighbours were going to church every week, and one time I asked my (atheist) mother if I could go along, and she consented. I never went back, even as a child I thought the preachings in the church were _ridiculous_.

What really crushed any spiritual belief I might have developed, however, was the school that was pushing it. They told me about the massacre of the children in Egypt by God, and I said that he shouldn't have killed all those kids who didn't have anything to do with the slavery inflicted on the Israelites. The school refused to discuss this, so I asked my mother, who at that point told me she didn't believe in God and gave me some kids encylopedia which had a rudimentary explanation of things like the big bang theory and evolution. She also explained that there were many religions who all thought contradictory things, and that it was clear they couldn't all be right. She also pointed out that many people chose to follow science - which I developed an interest in it because it made more sense.

So I would say you do not really need to worry about your child becoming religious against your desire - people need a lot of brainwashing to swallow all those contradictions. All you have to do, when he asks about god and the like, is explain to him that you_ personally_ don't believe in god. Make sure he knows he does not _have_ to believe in god, and that he can choose what religion, if any, to follow. Open-mindedness and critical thought quickly lead to atheism, I do not think it is ever acceptable to try and force atheism upon a child though - let them find it for themselves.


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## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

Resonance said:


> So I would say you do not really need to worry about your child becoming religious against your desire - people need a lot of brainwashing to swallow all those contradictions. All you have to do, when he asks about god and the like, is explain to him that you_ personally_ don't believe in god. Make sure he knows he does not _have_ to believe in god, and that he can choose what religion, if any, to follow. Open-mindedness and critical thought quickly lead to atheism, I do not think it is ever acceptable to try and force atheism upon a child though - let them find it for themselves.


Thanks for your input! I posed the questions on the atheist parenting forum, but it doesn't get much traffic. I found their list of suggested books for kids and ordered a few of those, including Humanism, What's That?, Born With a Bang, and pre-ordered the new Richard Dawkins book for children.

I didn't really word it very well in my original post. I guess I was viewing it on the level of letting my kids believe in Santa, Easter Bunny, and Tooth fairy. My 10 year old doesn't believe in god and seems to be on his way to critical thinking. We had the conversation this year about Santa et al. not being real either. My younger son is more apt for fanciful thinking at this point. We talked about god a little more just so I could figure out what he thinks. He seems to have the idea of god as a magic genie in a bottle sort of thing. Thinks god will grant wishes. I wouldn't tell him outright that he can't believe in a god, but it was just frustrating to hear him say that he "sort of" believes in god.

I do try to emphasize and answer their questions with, "I don't believe in god, but for those people who choose to believe in a god, they think X."

I would never enroll my children in religious school to be brainwashed. I know how hard it is to go against what your parents and other adults have told you is the truth. So far I've just been changing the subject if my mom brings up Sunday School. If I came out to her, I worry that she'd blame herself for being a "bad mother.". She tends to find a way to bring guilt upon herself for things that aren't remotely her fault, are no one's "fault."

I think it helped that last time we visited my mom, she asked us to go to church with her because she was going to sing a duet with her sister at the service. My kids were very bored and asked that we not go to church again. 

I can't wait for my books to arrive!


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## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

surrender to nothing said:


> What did you say? He's old enough to ask questions, which means he's old enough to know how you view things. Start telling him if you haven't yet.
> 
> Just my common sense approach as a non-parent (but a kid who grew up under Christianity fwiw).


Thanks! I let him know that I don't believe in god so I don't believe in god helping people. And that's why it's important that we help each other.



WhoAmIToday said:


> Hello Lynn
> 
> I'd like to preface this with the fact that I am not a parent. I can however, remember my childhood experiences (which were fairly recent) rather well.
> 
> ...


thanks! I like input from non-parents too! I like the idea of introducing other religions. I'll try that!


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

LynnNBoys said:


> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!


Simply tell her that you're an atheist. Think about this: does anybody in America who's Lutheran feel like they have to hide that "dirty little secret"? I doubt it, so why should atheists have to hide in the shadows? It's a vicious circle. Atheists don't come out due to fear of not fitting in with the crowd. But by not coming out and openly being an atheist, they help perpetuate the popular view that atheists are some exotic & unusual creature, rather than common folks that can be found all over the place (well, not likely in Sunday school, but in most other places).



LynnNBoys said:


> My 7 year old "sort of" believes in god. Should I let him? I don't even know where he's picking this stuff up.


Perhaps he picked it up by reading "In G** We Trust" on coins before depositing them in his piggy bank. A culture of religion is all over the place in America. Politicians invoke the name of G** endlessly. Short of living in a cave, it's hard to imagine how one can avoid being exposed to such ideas.



LynnNBoys said:


> Tonight he asked me how god helps people. Ugh.


I guess I'd try to explain that this is something that some people believe, but that those people are mistaken.



LynnNBoys said:


> Does venting about Christians count as bashing? I won't call them names.


Do you mean is it allowed on this forum? My guess is Drew would be furious if I expressed my views in their entirety using the same language I'd actually use in a private discussion on the matter of religion.


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## olschool (Sep 3, 2011)

"Daddy how does god help people?"--There is no god son-- simple as that


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## EggShells (Sep 18, 2011)

I wouldn't see a problem complaining about Christians. I'm a christian and I complain about them all the time, so if you need someone to vent to, you can always PM me. I'm a good listener. And I wont bash you for being atheist. 

I hope everything goes well with your son. You seem like a very bright, intelligent woman, who cares for her son very much. I hope everything goes well. Glad you found a solution!


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

I kind of sort of believed in a god when I was that age too because that is what everyone believed. I attended Catholic schools and sometimes I wish I didn't. Questioning was looked down upon, not to mention backlash from classmates.

Parenting Beyond Belief seems like it would be a good resource for you to use, if you haven't already!



> My 10 year old doesn't believe in god and seems to be on his way to critical thinking.


This was about my age when I started to seriously ask questions.

/notaparent.


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## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

LynnNBoys said:


> What about these topics--
> 
> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!
> 
> ...


Well, Im not qualified to offer parenting advice since I am not one, so take my .02 with a grain of salt.

Your Lutheran mom needs to mind her own business. She already raised her kids...now she needs to SUPPORT her grandkids, not "strongly suggest" how to raise them.

There is obviously a conflict here, and you see it as one or else you would have told her of your lack of beliefs. Im guessing you know how she will react to your being Atheist, hence why you havent told her? Thats a tough one, but the only way to find out is to tell her. Sink or swim...I dont think theres much middle ground as she is your mom and is involved in your life.

I would let your kid believe in whatever they choose. How many of us didnt have that priveledge growing up? I sure didnt. 
How does God help people? Tell him the truth. Tell him what you believe and let him make his own decision on the matter. Yes, he is young but that doesnt mean that he should have every mystery of life figured out for him. Let him figure some things out on his own.

Hmmm, venting about Christians=bashing... Id say no unless your feelings are based off of hatred for them believing in what they do.

**edit** Guess I could have read the responses, but I didnt want them to influence my reply. Your post 9 and 10 answer some of my questions but I'll leave my post up anyway.


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## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

UltraShy said:


> Simply tell her that you're an atheist. Think about this: does anybody in America who's Lutheran feel like they have to hide that "dirty little secret"? I doubt it, so why should atheists have to hide in the shadows? It's a vicious circle. Atheists don't come out due to fear of not fitting in with the crowd. But by not coming out and openly being an atheist, they help perpetuate the popular view that atheists are some exotic & unusual creature, rather than common folks that can be found all over the place (well, not likely in Sunday school, but in most other places).


I don't feel like it's a simple thing. I wouldn't want to hurt her feelings. She would take the blame, so to speak, because I don't believe in her god. She has very low self-esteem and would think that she was a bad mother. There are other things that come up where she feels like she was a bad mom, she tends to put herself down all the time. (And yes, I wish she would go to therapy.) I don't have any wish to add to her list of why she thinks she was a bad mom.

But I understand where you are coming from. I wish I knew more atheists in my life. The only ones I know are online.


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

jsgt said:


> Well, Im not qualified to offer parenting advice since I am not one, so take my .02 with a grain of salt.
> 
> Your Lutheran mom needs to mind her own business. She already raised her kids...now she needs to SUPPORT her grandkids, not "strongly suggest" how to raise them.


I agree with this. I understand why you don't want to tell her that you are an atheist, but it seems like it is putting a lot of stress on you and how you raise your kids.

/notaparent


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

LynnNBoys said:


> What about these topics--
> 
> My Lutheran mom is strongly suggesting that I put my kids in Sunday school (I haven't told her yet that I'm atheist). How can I get her to stop?!
> 
> ...


The reply I posted in the 'Were you always atheist' thread is appropriate here for how being sent to Sunday school effected me negatively:



> ...I was reading books on cosmology and natural history from an early age so the notion of God never made any logical sense to me.
> 
> One of my grandmothers did convince my mother to send me and my sister to Sunday school a few times in the early eighties but if anything that just left me with a distrust of religion, as what I was told there contradicted what I was learning elsewhere.
> 
> I think it probably also left me with a distrust of authority as it was my parents and grandparents, who a child should be able to trust, that sent me there and exposed me to the nonsense. However it was them that bought me the science books as well so it was all very contradictory and not good for a child.


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## Pennywise (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't put him in Sunday School. They'll just brainwash him with Creationism and religion. Put him in public school where it's impartial to any religion. And instead of just letting him believe in Christianity, ask him why he believes it and bring up logical questions to him so he might see how dumb it sounds. Teach him to be a critical thinker and question everything he is told, because most of what you here in this world is bull****.

And finally, don't let your mom raise your kid. Tell her that while you appreciate her interest in what she thinks is for his well-being, you would rather he be brought up in a way where he can choose what he believes in, instead of having it chosen for him.


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## Jonners (Sep 28, 2011)

I remember when I was young and asking my parents about Sunday school and wondering why some friends went to school on Sundays. Just tell your mum you do not want to send them and tell your kids that some children believe in different things. Hopefully they will develop into a well adjusted and logical person. Teach them about science, geology, the universe etc. early on and get them interested in the concept of time, history and facts. 

If my kids show signs of picking up nonsense from others I will probably be blunt with them and explain that it is all just a big story like Star Wars that some children like to believe in, but it is not real. Although do not want to spoil the wonderful world of Star Wars ...


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## Unsure1993 (Mar 25, 2011)

Don't put your child in Sunday school unless they ask for it. You gotta give your children some religious freedom I think, express your views politely when and if they ask but ultimately let them decide for themselves.


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## idiotboy (Sep 30, 2011)

atheist/agnostic parenting is hard and my daughter isn't even old enough to speak yet.  i didn't want to get the baby baptized and i didn't want her to go to church and i lost both of those fights with the wife already. so kudos to you for keeping your chin up!

my parents raised me catholic, but they told me and my brother that they'd always love us and it was our decision to make whether we believed or not. of course now they regret it because neither of us do, but i came around to the atheist/agnostic side through independent study and a complete lack of faith...that and the realization that, generally, deities are what we apply to things we can't understand. when we find the truth, they tend to go away. i hate to bash the church, but if you continue to encourage your son to think for himself and make his own decisions, that kinda gets in the way of organized religion anyway and he's more likely to let it go.


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## Josie (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm not a parent, but I've read on other atheist forums about leading your kids on with questions, and it sounds like a very good technique. And then maybe answer some questions along the way. I believe it's called the Socratic method.

I can't find the link now, but I remember reading a post from a dad whose daughter asked if they should give thanks to god before a meal. He asked, "Why would you thank him?" She said that he put the food on the table, to which he replied, "But, you saw mom make dinner, didn't you?" That led her to say that god must have put it in the store, and he explained how it got to the store. It went on like that until they got down to the farmers and ranchers who raised the cow-- no god necessary in the process.


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## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

Jonners said:


> I remember when I was young and asking my parents about Sunday school and wondering why some friends went to school on Sundays. Just tell your mum you do not want to send them and tell your kids that some children believe in different things. Hopefully they will develop into a well adjusted and logical person. Teach them about science, geology, the universe etc. early on and get them interested in the concept of time, history and facts.
> 
> If my kids show signs of picking up nonsense from others I will probably be blunt with them and explain that it is all just a big story like Star Wars that some children like to believe in, but it is not real. Although do not want to spoil the wonderful world of Star Wars ...


Oh no, don't spoil the wonderful world of Star Wars! 



Josie said:


> I'm not a parent, but I've read on other atheist forums about leading your kids on with questions, and it sounds like a very good technique. And then maybe answer some questions along the way. I believe it's called the Socratic method.
> 
> I can't find the link now, but I remember reading a post from a dad whose daughter asked if they should give thanks to god before a meal. He asked, "Why would you thank him?" She said that he put the food on the table, to which he replied, "But, you saw mom make dinner, didn't you?" That led her to say that god must have put it in the store, and he explained how it got to the store. It went on like that until they got down to the farmers and ranchers who raised the cow-- no god necessary in the process.


I like that story! I'll have to try it!

And yay, my copy of The Magic of Reality arrived today! I can't wait to read it with my kids!

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Reality...2812/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318014720&sr=8-1


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