# Dating and Race: An OkCupid Study



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

I don't see why people wanting to stick to their own race is such a negative thing. It doesn't meen you hate other races or you are a bad person but it's still racism by definition.


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## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

What a stupid article. Who are they to say who should have an interest in whom? This is dating, not affirmative action hiring (which is problematic, but that's another discussion). It's not racist if you only have an attraction to people of a particular color. People like the ones who put together this study go on and on about racism, but in fact they obsess about race more than the people they criticize.


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## JFmtl (Dec 23, 2008)

In the dating world, you have the right to choose and refuse people on whatever basis. I wont go on a date just for the sake of being politically correct. You can't force anyone to date anyone for politically correctness reasons.

After all, some could say that i'm sexist since i'd only date female :|


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## april showers (Jun 27, 2009)

In general, people's prefrences are largely influenced by the society they grew up in. In the US black women are hardly potrayed by the media in a appealing light. They are shown as loud, rude, and are potrayed as sexualy undesirable or are over-sexualized. (alot of other minority women face this problem too) White women are seen as the standard of beauty and even when there are makeup ads with hispanic or black models, those models ussualy have lighter skin and more "Caucasian" features. So yeah, many people don't see themselves as racist. But they are still influenced by the racist standard of beauty in our society. 

Personally I think saying "I don't find (insert race here) attractive" is racist. 1). Because it assumes that all people of said race look the same. Before anyone jumps on me, there is a difference between personal attraction and acknowleding that something is attractive. For example I'm attracted to brunettes, but if I see a good-looking guy with blonde hair I can still acknowledge that he's attractive even if I feel no personal attraction to him. It would be nonsense for me to say "He's ugly because he's blonde" or that "I find all blondes unattractive".


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

april showers said:


> So yeah, many people don't see themselves as racist. But they are still influenced by the racist standard of beauty in our society.


Ditto.

You may not be making a conscious choice when you say, "I don't find Black women (or whomever) attractive," but your preference is, in all likelyhood, rooted in society's racist ideas about who is beautiful and who is not. It's not the same thing as having a sexual preference, either. Biological differences do exist between men and women, while race is culturally defined.

I think the OkCupid study is really interesting, especially since it reinforces an idea I already had: liberals can be racist too! I say this as a liberal, so, liberals: please don't freak out.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

april showers said:


> In general, people's prefrences are largely influenced by the society they grew up in. In the US black women are hardly potrayed by the media in a appealing light. They are shown as loud, rude, and are potrayed as sexualy undesirable or are over-sexualized. (alot of other minority women face this problem too) White women are seen as the standard of beauty and even when there are makeup ads with hispanic or black models, those models ussualy have lighter skin and more "Caucasian" features. So yeah, many people don't see themselves as racist. But they are still influenced by the racist standard of beauty in our society.
> 
> Personally I think saying "I don't find (insert race here) attractive" is racist. 1). Because it assumes that all people of said race look the same. Before anyone jumps on me, there is a difference between personal attraction and acknowleding that something is attractive. For example I'm attracted to brunettes, but if I see a good-looking guy with blonde hair I can still acknowledge that he's attractive even if I feel no personal attraction to him. It would be nonsense for me to say "He's ugly because he's blonde" or that "I find all blondes unattractive".


I agree. Preference is merely a new, more acceptable form of racism in that it still places one race above another. The only thing that has really changed is the language, so we get racism without "racism." Often, standards for beauty are rooted in race. Take eyes for example: most people find blue or green or gray eyes (which are more common among white people) more attractive than brown or black eyes (which are more common among other races).

I'm not saying that people should date people they find unattractive, but I do think that choosing partners based on race is indicative of the racism that still persists.


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## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

I would want to stick to my own white race too , with regarding dating. Im not being racist and I dont like to be forced to being with someone I will not like. I dont care of we had something in common. I'm just not attracted to all other races of women, period. Maybe Spanish but thats about it 
Steve


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## Dane (Jul 27, 2009)

My main objection to this is that I think it's intolerant for someone to villify other people for not picking a mate they way he thinks they should. If the staff of OKcupid believes it's wrong not to be equally attracted to all races, more power to them, but they shouldn't try to force that belief on other people. 

If someone were to tell me that they are only attracted to people with size 11 3/4 feet, I wouldn't understand or agree with that, but I would never tell them (or think, for that matter) that they're a "s*****" person.

As far as the belief itself goes, (that being more attracted to some races than others is wrong) there are a lot of reasons why I don't share it, but I'll throw out a couple of thoughts.

I tend to agree with JF's point that if it's racist to be attracted to one race more than another, then isn't it sexist or homophobic to be attracted to one gender over another? Although it's commonly stated that race is merely a social construct that doesn't exist biologically, in reality scientists are still split on the issue.

Also, there are certain races or ethnic groups, the Twa of Africa come to mind, but there are others, whose members are universally short (under five feet I believe). It would seem to me that this would make any height preference racist according to OKcupid's philosophy.


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## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

Thats true too, and why should someone try to dictate how you are attracted to someone. and how you are'nt


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## foodie (Apr 27, 2010)

well on a funny note (not really )...i knew black females being one myself would have the lower percentage of replies back...i have tried those dating sites myself and feel that most of the men pefer other races (*coughs* white chicks)...but I do realize to that if a male of another race sends a request to a black woman she will most likely reply back....these findings are very interesteing because its something like i already knew but didnt think abt it to much i just figure thats just how it is u know...race has alot to do with everything...it shows how close minded ppl are (*coughs white men/ especially white chick* ) good thing im not holding my breath for that race...the race that im interested in well geesh god-damn that don't look to hot either but its better then i expected....and whats this abt white men like wtf...damn am I the only one that really isnt into to them like damn.....and white chicks are...let me stop im forgetting this might stir trouble...but nah nah nah everybody got there preferences...but I just wih that one day everybody isnt so into the all american look because its just like come the **** on its 2010 ppl...but anywya thats my take on the rticle it was really interesting though =)


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

To call this racist in any way shape or form is ****ing pathetic.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

Ospi said:


> To call this racist in any way shape or form is ****ing pathetic.


That's a bit strong. But I do think these strong responses are indicative of the sensitivity that so many people have toward being called racist. Preference, I think, is a means of practicing racism (which I define on preferring one person over another based solely on their race and racial characteristics) without calling it "racism." Again, this racism is deep-seated and unintentional, and so it's hard to see and is therefore hard to address. I certainly acknowledge that I have a similarly deep-seated racism that I find hard to really understand (though I don't prefer partners based on race), so I'm not immune. I think it's this sensitivity toward racism that has caused it to retreat to a more acceptable, more unnoticeable place within our psyche.

I think the first step to addressing and possibly eliminating this form of subtle, insidious racism is to first acknowledge that it is there. It's not easy or comfortable for us to acknowledge our own prejudices, but I'm trying, and I hope I'm not alone in trying.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

Foodie.

I can make a statement like: I prefer my own race. I'm white, I want to pass my genes on with a white woman and preserve my race, my genetic phenotype. Straight off someone like you (_you -_ your attitude, before you throw the race card) assumes I'm some kind of Neo-Nazi or at the least I'm a racist as the common understanding of it.

A dog is pretty much a wolf. Outwardly there's phenotypical differences. But genetically they are pretty much the same. Similar with domestic cats and wild cats. Most people appreciate the differences, most people generally don't want to interbreed them for the same reason, they want to preserve those traits. So conservationists are racist. Let's mate all species of animal that can interbreed and turn a species that has 25 subspecies into just the 1.

I don't think my race is superior. I don't think other races are inferior. Yet because I acknowledge the differences and I'm not as emotionaly attached to the issue as most people I get the called the racist. It's just a choice, a preferance from the start, other people actually often turn it into something.



foodie said:


> it shows how close minded ppl are (*coughs white men/ especially white chick* ) good thing im not holding my breath for that race...





foodie said:


> and whats this abt white men like wtf...damn am I the only one that really isnt into to them like damn.....and white chicks are...let me stop im forgetting this might stir trouble


Personally I'd say that's the most racist set of comments I've seen on this board since joining.

You can't say most people aren't picky about outward appearances either. Most people like a certain height or weight or facial features and yes i'll dare say it - skin colour. It's completely natural to have certain tastes and it's also natural to want to couple with your own kind. I hate using general phrases because they are so obsolete, especially the internet but 'birds of a feather, flock together'. Someone else said similar also. I wouldn't date a guy. That doesn't make me a homophobic, I'm just not gay. Are you going to start calling me a gay hater now? It's rediculous OTT PC'ness. What a farce.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Haha, you don't need to be a different color to get rejected. Just look at me!


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## laura024 (Aug 11, 2006)

There's nothing wrong with preferring a certain race over another. It's in one's nature to favor certain traits over others in a romantic partner. It's not as if these people are going around belittling others for their race like they're less of a human for being from a specific culture. They're just choosing the most ideal companion for them they know they'll be attracted to physically and emotionally. Dating is selective in that we pick only one person to spend our lives with. So clearly, most people are not going to be up to par for someone, regardless of race.


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## LostPancake (Apr 8, 2009)

That's pretty interesting. They're *not* saying that everyone should be colorblind and date outside of their own race.

Just that women of all races are more likely to reply to white guys, and guys of all races are less likely to reply to black women.

Even if a woman gets a message from someone of her own race, she's more likely to reply to one from a white guy.

And white guys are more likely to reply to a message from a middle eastern woman than any other race. (?)


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## april showers (Jun 27, 2009)

I think people are getting really defensive and think that the study means that they're consiously racist.

That's not it. What it's saying is that subtle racism in our society shapes how we see race unconciously as well. So yes, you probably think that you aren't racist, and it's probably true on a consious level, but subconsciencly you do see race.

It's been shown that the universal indicator of attractiveness that affects most people no matter where they come from are things like having a symmetrical face and bodily features that indicated good health in either sex such as body shape and a young-looking face. These things then have nothing to do with ideas such as skintone, eye color, hair type, ect.

What we find attractive in terms of color and such are affected by the enviroment we grew up in and the culture. If someone grew up in a culture where white skin is seen as good and beautiful and dark in skin seen as unappealing, then chances are they'll be attracted to people who have light skin when they're older without even realizing it. Like Stickinthemud said, this racism is many times unintentional. But it should be questioned and brought to attention if we're ever going to go forward as a society.

I understand that there are good reasons for people to date within their own race, such as not wanting to deal with racist in-laws and family members or wanting someone who can realte to your experience of being of a certian race. But this study is not just about wanting to date within your own race. This study shows that there are people willing to be in a interacial relationships, _but only with certian races_. Which is a major red flag right there. Pointing out that It's not being overly PC, it's just that that we have to stop being defensive whenever someone mentions a problem that occurs in our society pertaining to race.


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## _AJ_ (Jan 23, 2008)

its cause of tv! it tells you who's attractive! thats why they all like white people. all the sexy heros are white!

how come theres only one strong heroic character on tv that looks like me!
this is why im butt ugly in women's eyes

when they look at me they either see a terrorist, a kwik-E-mart guy, or a third world bum!


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## KittyGirl (May 14, 2010)

I don't really care. People can date or not date whomever they please~


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## Whitney (Oct 2, 2008)

april showers said:


> In general, people's prefrences are largely influenced by the society they grew up in. In the US black women are hardly potrayed by the media in a appealing light. They are shown as loud, rude, and are potrayed as sexualy undesirable or are over-sexualized. (alot of other minority women face this problem too) White women are seen as the standard of beauty and even when there are makeup ads with hispanic or black models, those models ussualy have lighter skin and more "Caucasian" features. So yeah, many people don't see themselves as racist. But they are still influenced by the racist standard of beauty in our society.


I definitely agree with that. Just the other day I was having a conversation with a black man where he told me that he only dates white women, and his reasoning was basically that "all black women are (insert whatever negative black women stereotype here that you want)." I thought it was interesting because instead of saying, "I only date women who are (insert qualities he finds attractive) and not women who are (insert qualities he finds unattractive) but instead he made that distinction as being black vs white.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

If this is racism, then I see no problem with racism or racists.

Successful relationships are based on homogeneity. A catholic won't fare well marrying a protestant, a democrat won't fare well marrying a republican. And I'd wager multi race marriages statistically don't fare well against single race marriages.


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## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

I don't think some of you people really understand what this is even about or what this even means.

People keep bringing up "Oh, I just prefer my own race" and "People are entitled to their preferences," and that's fine, but what if you're, say, an Asian male, and you're trying to find someone of your own race? You have a smaller pool of Asian women to choose from because they're all going after white and black guys.


I think the reason people in this thread are getting all defensive and especially those getting dismissive on this issue is because they're white themselves, so they have no problem with this because they would get top pick of whomever they wanted on OKCupid or any other dating site.

That's just my two cents before this thread inevitably gets locked.


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## 4realguy (Mar 11, 2010)

you cant help who your attracted to and not attracted to a person should date who ever the hell they want to if they want to date within there own race or have a certain preference that is up to them that doesnt mean your racist, there is definitly alot of racism in the world but this doesnt qualify


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## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

Again, people are looking at this from the perspective of the person sending the message rather than the person receiving it.

Yes, people can have whatever preference they want, and, no, it isn't racism to have those preferences. I think the main thing that this article is trying to bring is that, if you're the one waiting for a response from someone, especially if you're a black woman or an Asian man, you're basically getting the shaft, and it's gonna be disheartening for you. And when you haven't received any responses to the 800 people you've sent messages to, it's not as simple as dismissing it as, "Well, no one wants to go out with me because they all prefer other races, even those people that are of the same race as I am."


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## 4realguy (Mar 11, 2010)

Peter Attis said:


> I think the reason people in this thread are getting all defensive and especially those getting dismissive on this issue is because they're white themselves, so they have no problem with this because they would get top pick of whomever they wanted on OKCupid or any other dating site.
> 
> That's just my two cents before this thread inevitably gets locked.


i am not white i am hispanic and i could give a damn about dating sites cause i am not lookin, just given my opinion


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## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

> i could give a damn about dating sites cause i am not lookin, just given my opinion


I'm in the same boat on that. All I'm saying is that people dismissing this as not a big deal are not seeing it from the other perspective.


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

I think we're generally socialized by the media to prefer white features. I think this is a cause of nurture as opposed to nature.


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## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't think it has anything to do with the media. It doesn't for me anyway. I'm a white guy that isn't really attracted to black women. However, I find many white women really boring to look at. I tend to go for Asian, European and Latin women, look wise, who are relatively unrepresented (compared to whites) on tv etc.

I have heard many Western women say how unattractive they find Asian guys. It's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with the media, they just don't find typical Asian genetics appealing. I'd be frustrated too if I was an Asian guy, but I'd have to accept it... not try to blame everything else.

Yes, it's rejection on the basis of race... but with something as personal as love, the context changes. You can discriminate on the basis of whatever you want as far as I'm concerned.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

People can and should date people they're comfortable with. Who you date is as personal a choice as you can make, and no one has any right meddling.

However, as a sociological point, thinking that those "comforts" aren't *influenced* by media and that the choice isn't run through the "smaller" sections of our brains is typically a denial of reality. Most of us are highly suggestible, and quite well conditioned by the time we're capable of critically looking at how the Huxleyan effort has shaped us.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

I don't care what color you are. I'll date you if you got a big *** and nice titties.


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## april showers (Jun 27, 2009)

CeilingStarer said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with the media. It doesn't for me anyway. I'm a white guy that isn't really attracted to black women. However, I find many white women really boring to look at. I tend to go for Asian, European and Latin women, look wise, who are relatively unrepresented (compared to whites) on tv etc.
> 
> I have heard many Western women say how unattractive they find Asian guys. It's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with the media, they just don't find typical Asian genetics appealing. I'd be frustrated too if I was an Asian guy, but I'd have to accept it... not try to blame everything else.


If you don't think the media has any effect then you should look at the races you mentioned and think of how they're potrayed in the media. Sure you probably don't look at a black woman and actively think "Oh well all the black women I see on tv are loud, ****ty, fat, and/or rude! Plus I hate dark skin, dark eyes, and dark hair, so I'm not going to date one!" But if people grow up seeing that image then chances are it does have an effect. I know black women who are sucessful and educated but they have a hard time finding a decent guy because men of all races would tell them to their face that that's the impression they have of all black women.

Even is Asian, European, and Latin women aren't seen that much on TV. (Not sure about European though). While there are problems of negative potrayals they face by the media but these negative potryals aren't as threatening to men as the potrayal of black women. For example asian women are shown as submissive and victims alot of times, it's a negative and incorrect view of asian women, but it's not a view point that'll threaten men. If anything some men even become attracted to asian women because of this preconceived notion that they developed from how they're potrayed.

Also you mentioned western women not being attracted to asian guys. Well think for a second about how asian men are potrayed in the media as well. They're usually really nerdy with no sex appeal or they're potrayed as abusive and backwards. Or they're comic relief in the "look at this stupid immigrant with his broken English" way. They're hardly ever shown in a attractive light.

Like I said, each person have diffrent reasons, but if there's a major social trend like the study showed, it means that something in our society is affecting this trend and it should be questioned.


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

I don't prefer one race or the other. I prefer someone I am attracted to and it doesn't matter what color they are. If most of them happen to be white then so be it but I won't disqualify someone for being a different race. I have been attracted to women in probably all races.


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

I'm black, and I feel like guys avoid me, lol. ><


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## Rasputin_1 (Oct 27, 2008)

So if I wont date guys does that make me sexist? It seriously seems like thats what coming next.


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## RosieApple (May 10, 2010)

I have dated men of different races. It never occurred to me that it was an issue until someone I work with mentioned that she would 'never date a black man' but she 'wasn't racist'
I think, although people have every right to choose who they date, it's a pretty sad thing if people have already made up their minds. I really think we could use some diversity in films, television, magazines. The media doesn't reflect society properly and that is really not good enough.


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## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

Rasputin_1 said:


> So if I wont date guys does that make me sexist? It seriously seems like thats what coming next.


*facePALM*

I really don't think some of you even get what the article is trying to say, or even read it at all.


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## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

Peter Attis said:


> ...That's just my two cents before this thread inevitably gets locked.


I thought only "men have it worse than women" threads got locked. :b



mbp86 said:


> I don't care what color you are. I'll date you if you got a big *** and nice titties.


^  I like hips myself. I tend to agree that beauty transcends color. I saw online recently some very attractive ladies of other "races". And on a TV show, they showed a wife (of another "race") of one reality tv-person and my jaw dropped. She was gorgeous. I was totally jealous. I'm thinking of moving to that country. jk :b

The census department I think also kept track of things like the OK Cupid article mentioned (they had a survey that asked about couples cohabiting and marriage and what not) and it corroborated what the OKCupid study said.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

Cerberus said:


> Many say that one's personality can make a beautiful person ugly or not as attractive. I think this applies here, except in a more superficial and subconscious appraisal of someone's personality. Many people aren't rejecting other races because they find them physically unattractive per se, but because they believe subconsciously the other race's skin color represents something unattractive about their culture or personality.
> 
> Differences in race is more akin to hair color than differences in sex, if we dispose of cultural constructions. Thus, comparing race to sex doesn't really work. There are no major biological differences among races. Most wouldn't reject someone because they have a different hair color from what they envision as ideal, but they will do this with skin color due to all the perceived baggage that can come with it.


Agreed. Good post! We can't compare sexual organs to skin color and culture.


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## stomachknots (May 7, 2010)

Cerberus said:


> I found this pretty interesting. It looks like white females are the worst offenders to all races except white guys, and guys of all races are the worst offenders towards black women.
> 
> http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
> 
> I don't know if I'd say this is racism per se. I think has more to do with preference, but tell that to the people who are more likely to be rejected because of their race as compared to another race.


lol well thats awesome and encouraging...yay for me


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## RosieApple (May 10, 2010)

mbp86 said:


> I don't care what color you are. I'll date you if you got a big *** and nice titties.


 Comments like this make me glad to be petite!


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

stomachknots said:


> lol well thats awesome and encouraging...yay for me


Ditto. It's hard enough to get a gf with SA, but it sucks that my race further restricts me.


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## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> Ditto. It's hard enough to get a gf with SA, but it sucks that my race further restricts me.


Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing.

I remember reading this article when they first posted it on OKCupid. Little confidence + being black = no ladies for you. :|


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## stomachknots (May 7, 2010)

Nathan18 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing.
> 
> I remember reading this article when they first posted it on OKCupid. Little confidence + being black = no ladies for you. :|


Lol kobe, tiger, and every other black guy that i ever known haven't had much of a problem.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

Nathan18 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing.
> 
> I remember reading this article when they first posted it on OKCupid. Little confidence + being black = no ladies for you. :|


Actually, I'm Indian. We get the lowest reply rate according to that article of any race (but not by much, compared to other non-white races).


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## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

stomachknots said:


> Lol kobe, tiger, and every other black guy that i ever known haven't had much of a problem.


Professional sports players are going to have much better luck than your average guy. 

Confidence is also a huge factor.



STKinTHEmud said:


> Actually, I'm Indian. We get the lowest reply rate according to that article of any race (but not by much, compared to other non-white races).


It's really close. Blacks & Indians have almost the same amount of 'red' in the data.


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## foodie (Apr 27, 2010)

low said:


> Foodie.
> 
> I can make a statement like: I prefer my own race. I'm white, I want to pass my genes on with a white woman and preserve my race, my genetic phenotype. Straight off someone like you (_you -_ your attitude, before you throw the race card) assumes I'm some kind of Neo-Nazi or at the least I'm a racist as the common understanding of it.
> 
> ...


okay dude like wtf...all i was saying is that most ppl perfer WHITE ppl becausae they are seen as ok to date...if any race brought home a black girl or guy there parents honestly wouldnt be to happy NOT ALL PPL BUT MOST AND preferences stems from racism if u ask me!!!! yes im not saying this **** is racism AT ALL DUDE...ITS NOT I KNOW WE HAVE PREFERENCES BUT I JUST HATE THE FACT THAT WHITE PPL ARE SEEN AS OK TO DATE AND BLACK PPL ARENT BECAUSE THERE FAMILIES HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST US....u can't not tell abt racism are u ****ing kidding me im black...i know what the **** im talking abt!!!...and most ppl just don't perfer our race but u can't not tell me some of there preferences don't stem from there parents or family or societies influneces about black ppl in general dude...and and thats ur choice but dude im not ****in talking abt u or anyone else that solely wants to keep there family WHITE...but ur inflences will have something to do with ur childrens chocies..wheter u choose to influence them or not it will have some type of baring on them... THANKS!!!


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## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

What foodie said.

Just in a less aggressive way.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

I do think people are largely the product of their environment, and a lot of people are afraid of admitting it because they don't wanna be called a racist or be seen as a prejudice person. Everyone has prejudices. Even the people who think they don't, do, even if they're subtle. It's up to the individual to look inside themselves and figure out why they are a certain way about certain things, in this case maybe why they "prefer" to date people of their same ethnicity or why they avoid dating someone of another ethnicity.

I personally grew up in a very diverse environment. I didn't know there was anything wrong with interracial dating. I didn't know people didn't like Black women. As far as I knew anyone could date anyone and not get slack for it. But then I started to socialize in different groups and saw that even when someone does make the decision to date outside of their ethnic group, their families can be very...well, just not supportive. You would think people would just be happy to see their loved one in love and happy but no, everyone has an opinion. "Why can't you bring home a nice Asian girl?" "What's wrong with Black men?" Blah, blah, blah, all the way to the truly ignorant **** like "Does she wash her hair every day?" True stories. You don't just date the person. You date their family, and your family dates them. A lot of times famillies want you to be in a traditional family. For example, a White man marries a White woman and has children (football player, cheerleader, school organization enthusiasts with straight A's) and lives in the suburbs and owns a dog and drives a van and works in an office and goes to church every Sunday and sends out holiday letters with pictures of the family and probably recycles and has serious political opinions and goes on vacations to exotic places... - perfect. The definition of a traditonal family varies by culture (for instance, an Asian couple would allow the man's mother to live with them and the woman is totally submissive to the man and the man is a doctor...you know...whatever). At the end of the day, the media, family, friends, past experiences, religion, all of it plays a role in the dating world.

Ultimately, people are superficial. Ethnicity is a superficial thing to base dating decisions on. We could go down into the science of it but it really is superficial just like dating someone based on their how much money they make or how tall they are or how big their boobs are...we can make excuses. We can give reasons, as deep as you wanna make them, but those are superficial parts of people and if you don't decide to get to know someone before you rule them out of your dating pool, you don't really know who you're saying no to and you probably don't know who you're saying yes to either until after you get to know them (provided their presenting their true selves).

Now, me, personally, I've never had a preference when it comes to ethnicity. I am the product of interracial dating/marriage and I've seen a lot of interracial couples, as well as couples of the same ethnicity. I see that if someone is of another ethnicity and dates someone who is White, it is seen as either 1) an "upgrade" (meaning the best anyone can do is date a White person) or 2) self-hate (meaning people think that you're dating someone who is White because you hate your own ethnic group). I've seen that if you are in an interracial relationship, you can be taking on more stress than couples who are of the same ethnicity. Overall, interracial relationships aren't as acceptable and are usually discouraged (unless you're a Black women in which case you're probably being told not to date Black men). I don't think it's best to date within your ethnic group. I don't think it's best to date outside it. I think it's best to know who you are and date someone who knows who they are, and always be true to that and not listen to ignorance.

I would like to add that comparing this to someone's sexuality is not fair and, I feel, wildly inappropriate as it as nothing to do with the topic. Not dating someone because of your sexual orientation _is not_ the same as not dating someone because of the color of their skin.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> I think people are getting really defensive and think that the study means that they're consiously racist. That's not it. What it's saying is that subtle racism in our society shapes how we see race unconciously as well. So yes, you probably think that you aren't racist, and it's probably true on a consious level, but subconsciencly you do see race.It's been shown that the universal indicator of attractiveness that affects most people no matter where they come from are things like having a symmetrical face and bodily features that indicated good health in either sex such as body shape and a young-looking face. These things then have nothing to do with ideas such as skintone, eye color, hair type, ect. What we find attractive in terms of color and such are affected by the enviroment we grew up in and the culture. If someone grew up in a culture where white skin is seen as good and beautiful and dark in skin seen as unappealing, then chances are they'll be attracted to people who have light skin when they're older without even realizing it. Like Stickinthemud said, this racism is many times unintentional. But it should be questioned and brought to attention if we're ever going to go forward as a society. I understand that there are good reasons for people to date within their own race, such as not wanting to deal with racist in-laws and family members or wanting someone who can realte to your experience of being of a certian race. But this study is not just about wanting to date within your own race. This study shows that there are people willing to be in a interacial relationships, but only with certian races. Which is a major red flag right there. Pointing out that It's not being overly PC, it's just that that we have to stop being defensive whenever someone mentions a problem that occurs in our society pertaining to race.


You still avoided the question about homosexuality. Is it homophobic for straight males to deny a relationship with a gay male? A simple yes or no will suffice.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> I don't care what color you are. I'll date you if you got a big *** and nice titties. Comments like this make me glad to be petite!


Well, there is a point to his crudeness :lol. From my experience black women generally have the best "cough" buttocks out of all the races. So they have an advantage in that department. Well, for those of us who like busty women I should say. I wish my girlfriend had a backside like that :lol I kid I kid "cough" or do I :lol. I do think there is something to the culture aspect of it though. First thing you think of when you see a black girl on a dating site might be is she ghetto lol. If she is that right away puts an end to any attractiveness that I might have had for her. Also, aloofness is attractive to guys. If you act like you're too good for him he might become more attracted to you. But, if you immediately respond to his approaches then he might think you're desperate and get turned off. I don't know, maybe I'm looking at it through lust tinted glasses :lol.


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## april showers (Jun 27, 2009)

stylicho said:


> You still avoided the question about homosexuality. Is it homophobic for straight males to deny a relationship with a gay male? A simple yes or no will suffice.


Easy, no. It's not.

Why? (Because I have a feeling you're going to ask anyways.) Because race is a social construct. We are not geneticly predisposed to chose one race over another. There is evidence that points to the possibilty that sexuality is an inherited trait. Plus a person's sex isn't comparable to race. People of all races can be of a ceritan sexual orientation. But people of a certian sexual orientation can't be only of a certian race. So the people comparing race to sexuality are comparing apples and oranges.


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## fluidglide (Mar 1, 2009)

*reply*

race is not really a social construct. i even read a book from a guy trying to state it but that still is not enough.

the fact that geneticists can not at this point find the genes that separate a pale blonde from sweden and a dark skinned african from tanzania doesn't mean they won't eventually find it.

humans are like 97% alike in genetic makeup with chimpanzee's but we (at least most people) can agree that chimpanzees are not humans.

humans are like 99% alike in genetic makeup with bonobo's but we (at least most people) can agree that bonobos are not humans.

if we assume the current evolutionary theory that is suggested, the phenotypic differences seen between the many groups of humans in the world are from migration movements and land separation which took ten of thousands of years to develop, through evolution.

the differences are on the faces of each human. we can only guess at the race of another human through looking at their face and features. and those faces and features are from thousands of years of adaption to climates and environments.

i am willing to bet that a african from tanzania and a blonde from sweden is probably 99.999% alike but even an extraterrestial studying from outerspace would be able to tell the difference between the two human biological organisms apart if they could use the sense of sight. one has significantly lighter skin than the other.

and if the person from tanzania and the one from sweden is 99.999% alike, another person in the same tribe as the one from tanzania would be 99.9999% similar. that is one entire degree, one entire magnitude. a difference of 10 times.

and keep in mind that even for species of animals, scientist even take the further step to create SUB-species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rattlesnake_species_and_subspecies

and the only difference between the species is what country the snake is native to.

and scientist DO classify snakes of different color into separate species.

my point is that yes, if people wanted to, we can put every single human or human like creature on earth under the umbrella term "human" and hold hands and say how we are all equal.

but if we really wanted to be logical and scientific about this issue, scientists should be allowed to create subspecies within the **** sapien bracket to account for all of the different shapes and sizes.

my point is that race is not just a human social construct. it may be a nice tool humans use to classify humans in some way but the physical features on a human biological entity can be used by another species to classify us biologically!!


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## fluidglide (Mar 1, 2009)

*reply*

as for a reply to the original post, i personally have concluded that most humans are prejudice and bias towards certain people at some level.

i know my own prejudices and biases but definitely won't express them in public. and i can completely admit that some of my prejudice views are from the media and the messages it forces upon me since i was young. 
but as an adult now, can i force myself to completely get rid of these biases just so other people can feel better about the world? no.

in a professional setting, i will be cordial and friendly to all people but as for my personal life, i have my own opinions.

i am a guy and i can say that most of the issues with race is because humans, especially guys, are very superficial. very superficial.

the main indicator of attraction of a guy is physical appearance. men are visually stimulated. we will judge a girl on her looks and make a choice whether we find her attractive or not.

it is unPC to judge on "race" these days because of so much baggage this country carries with it. it is a sensitive issue and people are willing to fight and kill over this issue if they are offended enough. so we all just play along and pretend everything is good so there is no conflict.

i know a guy who is not attracted to black girls. i know a guy who primarily finds white girls attractive. i know a middle eastern girl who only likes white american guys. is it fair?

this type of post does nothing except state the obvious. it may be sort of informative for people who are so blind to the social matrix in the society that they live in that they haven't seen the elephant in the room, but most people are not that unobservant. people are smarter than they appear. never underestimate a human.


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## Smitten (Oct 30, 2006)

Ugh...why? Black males are hot:cig


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## caflme (Jun 7, 2009)

I am a white middle-aged woman but have found just as many men of nearly every race attractive as I have white men... they've never asked me out - any more than white men have so I've not dated any more men of another race than I have white men... but would find it interesting. I don't really understand why some people make it out like it would be any different. I mean... last I checked for the most part, all non-white men wake up and go through the same routines that white men do... I've met jerks of all race and a few good guys of all races... I've yet to find any trend despite what is generally talked about. 

But if I am not attracted to someone I would hate to have to be politically correct about it.... what has been said is true... the media does skew our sense of what is attractive when it comes to men, women and race... but I don't know of anyone who doesn't find Will Smith attractive... or Sayid or Jin on LOST... or Taye Diggs from Private Practice... but that is the media putting that out there. 

It's frustrating how much the media really influences our tastes in people, food, activities...


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> Easy, no. It's not. Why? (Because I have a feeling you're going to ask anyways.) Because race is a social construct. We are not geneticly predisposed to chose one race over another. There is evidence that points to the possibilty that sexuality is an inherited trait. Plus a person's sex isn't comparable to race. People of all races can be of a ceritan sexual orientation. But people of a certian sexual orientation can't be only of a certian race. So the people comparing race to sexuality are comparing apples and oranges


Since you added on I will too 
Would you date a BBM (Big Beautiful Man :lol)? Are you shallow if you know you wouldn't do this? Now I don't know you personally. You could be a BBW in which case a BBM would be your most likely mate statistically speaking. People are generally going to relate to others who are like themselves, on every level.


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## april showers (Jun 27, 2009)

stylicho said:


> People are generally going to relate to others who are like themselves, on every level.


I totally agree on your last point. People will most likely be with others they can relate to. Which is why I said there are valid reasons as to why people would date someone of their own race.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that how people view those of other races on a scale of attractiveness is influenced by a racist culture. And it shouldn't be ignored just because it doesn't apply to you on a personal level. Which I think is a problem in this thread. People are taking it personally and not looking it in a larger perspective which is how this article should be looked at.

Just like how the shallow aspect culture tells us that BBM and BBW's are unattractive and influence's peoples views on that. The racist aspect of our culture tells us that certian races are more attractive than others.

I don't judge people and consider them as racist/shallow if they are influenced by it because it's really hard to unteach yourself these views. But I do draw the line when people refuse to acknowledge that these beauty standards are an actual problem in our society, and don't think that it's nessicary to at least question what shapes their views on attractiveness.


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## Emptyheart (Sep 15, 2009)

Laith said:


> Ridiculous.
> 
> I'm multi-racial myself and I've always been attracted to a certain type of look (which I suppose can be correlated with certain races) over other types of looks. Is that racist? No.
> 
> ...


Agree!


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## sash (Nov 16, 2009)

I’m here today because a man decided he loved a woman so much that he didn’t care if his mom threatened to disown him because she didn’t belong to his race. I am here because a woman decided to stay with this man despite the indifference, racism and attempts to push them apart. I am multi-racial and I am here today because my parents allowed a love to transcend tradition. 

Personally, I have dated men as black as the night sky and as white as chalk and everything between. I dated them based on one thing only: character. 

I feel sorry for those who limit themselves to only certain people...not knowing what wonderful experiences they could have had if they just looked beyond what the eyes could see.


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