# Adderall + Klonopin NEW update



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

Note: Kind of long post, but it is worth it for those curious about these things.

Just thought I would share my experiences with this cocktail tonight. I was out tonight in a socially intense situation and decided to go with an adderall + klonopin cocktail. Alcohol was clearly out of the question since I am not seriously resorting to it any more for social anxiety relief.

I know I have reported on this combo before, but I feel my latest experience is beneficial enough to share it with whomever may be interested. I feel that this particular combo offers essentially a cure to SA throughout its duration. This has been spoken about before, but this here is my first hand experience.

First I should start off by saying that I took 20 mg of adderall last week one day in the early morning and found that it jump started me far more than caffeine ever could. What was perhaps even stranger, I noticed that I was excessively extroverted throughout its entire duration of action (about 5 hours). This was a bit surprising in some ways since I was not on any anxiolytics at all that AM.

So for this particular outing tonight, I dosed 2 mg klonopin about 2 hours before the event to make sure it was kicking in good beforehand. At about 1 hour to go, I still felt slightly anxious so I popped another 0.5 mg. About 45 minutes before, I popped 40 mg of adderall. With only 5 minutes to go, I decided to proceed with my theory of higher dose adderall corresponding well with higher dose klonopin. At this point I popped another 20 mg adderall and another 0.5 mg klonopin. I should note that I also took a bathroom break during the outing and popped another 1 mg klonopin just to be safe.

So this amounts to a total of 4 mg klonopin and 60 mg adderall which were titrated to effect over a period of 2-3 hours. As a farther note, I should say that this entire outing lasted for perhaps 3 hours tops.

The overall conclusion was that things went fantastic. I was a little apprehensive about using too much adderall relative to my klonopin dosing. This was not a problem at all though. I felt extremely extroverted the ENTIRE time and even after coming home for at least another hour. On top of that I had ZERO sedation or amnesia despite the high dose klonopin. It seemed that adderall obliviated these effects while still allowing klonopin a certain degree of anxiolysis.

Now this is obviously a high dose regiment and for this reason, I don't plan to utilize it more than once per week - only for the most severely needed instances. I am thrilled to report the fantastic experience I had. I did not seem drugged up in any way and in fact was very alert and awake throughout the entire ordeal. Best of all I was TRULY able to be myself without worrying about what anyone thought in what would normally be a very intense social situation with severe debilitating symptoms.

My final conclusion thus far is that the adderall alone may be enough to provide the degree of relief that I need. After all, it turns me into a complete extravert entirely on its own. More experimentation must be done to see if this is indeed the case. I hope this provides someone out there with some hope because I believe I have for the first time in my life found a drug combination that is in every way superior to alcohol for SA.

No major liver toxicity. No coordination problems. No sedation. No problems with everything going "slow". No real hangover. No "drugged up" appearance (completely undetectable by anyone around). I really can't be more elated with this combo.

Disclaimer: I have prescriptions for both of these medicines and do not condone illegal use of these or any other medications.


----------



## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

The Adderall + benzo combination is really strong and effective. It was probably the most relief I've ever experienced. If big pharma would put amphetamines through a drug trial for treating SA, I'm sure they'd have grounds for patenting a new Adderall-esque cash cow for the treatment of SA. I mean, if it's "OK" to pump hyperactive people who can't pay attention full of speed, why isn't it just as "OK" to pump us painfully shy folk full of speed since the evidence for its effectiveness seems pretty abundant.


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Kanes said:


> Disclaimer: I have prescriptions for both of these medicines and do not condone illegal use of these or any other medications.


Just because you have some cash-hungry private doctor willing to write a script for anything, doesn't change the fact that many people use illegally-obtained Adderall/Klonopin for exactly the same purpose as you.


----------



## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

There was probably no need to take such a large amount of the drugs, maybe adderall xr would be better in combination with clonazepam because they would have similar durations of effect?


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Kanes, why did you even take the Klonopin in the first place? I personally would combine the two for my first trial to make sure the amphetamine doesn't induce a panic attack. Is it for speed-induced anxiety or does the SA persist even when on a highly sociable dose of Adderall? I was hoping Adderall by itself wouldn't cause too much general anxiety so I could avoid using benzos with Adderall if amphetamine does indeed work for me. Nevertheless, it's great to hear that such a high dose of clonazepam had it's severe cognitive-decline thwarted by the speed.



Ash09 said:


> *There was probably no need to take such a large amount of the drugs*, maybe adderall xr would be better in combination with clonazepam because they would have similar durations of effect?


I agree, 4mgs of clonazepam? 2mg should have done the trick just fine - no need to add more social isolation when anxiolysis has already reached the desired level.


----------



## belfort (May 3, 2009)

im sure this combi is very effective as i have taken valium/ephedrine combo in the past and it was wonderful..problem is, can it be taken even 3-4 days a week without tolerance building etc etc??


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

belfort said:


> im sure this combi is very effective as i have taken valium/ephedrine combo in the past and it was wonderful..problem is, can it be taken even 3-4 days a week without tolerance building etc etc??


You'd have to ditch one or two days of the clonazepam, but that's all that would be required to keep a sustainable combo.


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Just because you have some cash-hungry private doctor willing to write a script for anything, doesn't change the fact that many people use illegally-obtained Adderall/Klonopin for exactly the same purpose as you.


Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as an a-hole or anything when I said that. I guess I was just paranoid or something. I support anyone else looking for a cure for this crappy disorder.


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> Kanes, why did you even take the Klonopin in the first place? I personally would combine the two for my first trial to make sure the amphetamine doesn't induce a panic attack. Is it for speed-induced anxiety or does the SA persist even when on a highly sociable dose of Adderall? I was hoping Adderall by itself wouldn't cause too much general anxiety so I could avoid using benzos with Adderall if amphetamine does indeed work for me. Nevertheless, it's great to hear that such a high dose of clonazepam had it's severe cognitive-decline thwarted by the speed.


Ok, this is really more of a continuing experiment as far as dosages. I agree that 4 mg clonazepam was pretty much definitely unnecessary in this case. In retrospect, I know 3 mg would not have made a bit of difference but I was really not wanting to mess this up so I erred on the side of "safety" so to say.

My theory before was that clonazepam + adderall would be the perfect combo for SA. I mean both of them help in their own way and I knew that others had great improvements by combining them. Plus I judged by their pharmacology that a result like this might happen. I may have been wrong though in one way....

No, the reason why I took the Klonopin was prophylactically out of the worry that the adderall would produce some level of anxiety in higher doses. This was a very important event and I couldn't risk finding out too late that there was significant anxiety which would then have to be fixed with a benzo (which takes an hour+ to reach effect). I reinforce again though that this was merely done through hypothetical reasoning and not due to any anxiety type experience I have ever had on adderall.

Of course, the ultimate goal would be to just take the adderall ONLY if that truly is the only component of the solution that is actually needed. This will take some time though before I can figure this out for sure. Like I said, I am only willing to use these higher doses once per week so it will be a while before I can draw the conclusion that adderall alone "cures" SA (if that is indeed the case).

I did mention near the beginning of my original post though that I used 20mg of adderall by itself in a moderately intense situation and it worked wonders. I did not feel anxiety at this time and was simply "converted" into an extravert for five hours. This last event though was a significantly more intense one so I really felt I needed to make sure everything went perfect. Again, I'll have to continue testing until I find the right dose for these situations.


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Kanes said:


> Ok, this is really more of a continuing experiment as far as dosages. I agree that 4 mg clonazepam was pretty much definitely unnecessary in this case. In retrospect, I know 3 mg would not have made a bit of difference but I was really not wanting to mess this up so I erred on the side of "safety" so to say.
> 
> My theory before was that clonazepam + adderall would be the perfect combo for SA. I mean both of them help in their own way and I knew that others had great improvements by combining them. Plus I judged by their pharmacology that a result like this might happen. I may have been wrong though in one way....
> 
> ...


I think 2mg of Klonopin is the MAX you'd need to smother all Adderall-induced anxiety from a sub-100mg instant release dose.

If you want to use 60mg of amphetamine in the future and you discover that you can tolerate this dose with 1mg Klonopin, you could have an awesome weekly regimen. The following is for long term use and allows full day SA alleviation (not in order, choose the days that fit in best with your schedule):


3 days of low-dose carvedilol + 1mg Klonopin + 120mg Adderall XR in the morning, then carvedilol halfway through the day. 400-600mg gabapentin at night.
2 days of carvedilol + 90mg Adderall XR in the morning, then carvedilol halfway through the day. Phenibut/Baclofen at night.
2 days of 600-900mg pregabalin taken t.i.d. (morning, afternoon, evening)
Theanine + L-DOPA at night every day Adderall is taken. L-DOPA only during the 2 days off from amphetamine


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

Time for my latest update on this particular combo. I have been trying to perfect the exact dosing in order to achieve the best effect without going too overboard.

This week, I tried a similar regimen from last week but with significantly reduced clonazepam doses based on suggestions by others as well as my own belief that 4 mg clonazepam had been certainly overkill.

So today, I did this. 1 mg clonazepam 3 hours before the situation. Then I took another 1 mg clonazepam about 1.5 hours beforehand. About 45 minutes beforehand I took 20 mg adderall. Then about 20 minutes before, I took another 20 mg adderall. Finally, with a few minutes to go I took a final 0.5 mg clonazepam and a final 10 mg adderall.

This totals to 2.5 mg clonazepam and 50 mg adderall titrated to effect over a period of about 3 hours prior to beginning the social contact. Again, I experienced incredible success with this dosing combo. I was able to reduce the clonazepam down from 4.0 to 2.5 mg from last week and the adderall down from 60 mg to 50 mg. I really couldn't tell much difference in the effects and everything went very well. Keep in mind that this was again for a very intense situation that normally would cause me extreme anxiety. Amazingly I made it through the situation with a cool confidence and highly extroverted and funny personality that normally would be only possible in my dreams.

The important thing here is to dose the clonazepam first several hours in advance. Adderall seems to kick into effect much more quickly so 45 minutes beforehand seems plenty enough time to allow the effect to start. Also I was on an empty stomach when dosing adderall and drank a decent amount of water with it.

During this time I was able to approach several girls and have worthwhile nonembarrassing enjoyable conversations. Next I went to dinner with a group of people I don't know too well and was able to participate thoroughly in the social dynamics of the conversations to the point that I made a very positive impression of being a fun outgoing guy. After this, I had a further discussion with a friend of mine over some personal issues that normally would have been very troublesome for me to open up about.

Now it is later in the night and I am slowly turning back into Dr. Jekyll. The final point I will add is that I am quickly becoming a strong believer that the adderall is the superior solution to social anxiety and clonazepam is more of an adjunct that doesn't really cure things perse. The true "cure" is the adderall. I should note also though that I have ADD and it is possible that my anxiety is actually a secondary manifestation of the ADD. This is a bit of a new revelation to me. Nevertheless, I think this combo is really turning out to be a PRN "cure" to SA in my case and I encourage others to seriously consider these findings.


----------



## icedCoffee (Jun 14, 2009)

very interesting posts. I am happy for you. I have only tried zoloft(helped somewhat), lexapro(didn't like it) and xanax(helps but I feel too mentally slow).

For someone that has never taken adderall how does it feel? Like a bunch of coffee w/ no jittering? I feel more social when I've had some coffee and more energetic and uplifted. Is it just more dramatic? Do you think most docs would let me try that combo? I was planning on zoloft again but I don't really want zoloft it is just I don't know what else to do and xanax is great but not for work situations so much because I'm not sharp when I'm on xanax.....


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

icedCoffee said:


> Do you think most docs would let me try that combo?


Absolutely not, unless you have ADD/ADHD or a much longer list of failed medications + an open-minded and generous doctor. Speaking of doctor, are you seeing a primary physician or an actual psychiatrist? You'd need the latter to have any hope of obtaining an Adderall script.


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

I know what you are talking about as far as the coffee feeling, but I wouldn't say that adderall is just some stronger version of coffee. I'll try to describe things as best as I can.

It does wake me up for sure. If I take it in the morning after getting very little sleep the night before, I will feel fully awake and alert as if I were fully rested - completely unaware that I had missed any sleep. It has never given me that awake but "wired" feeling that coffee often gives me when lacking sleep. Instead, adderall seems to give me a "true" awake feeling that is indistinguishable from a fully rested and alert state.

The real effectiveness of adderall for SA though is through a sensation that is unlike anything I have ever felt with coffee. I can best describe it as a sort of tingling sensation felt throughout the brain which lasts throughout the entire duration of the adderall for me (about 5 hours). My theory is that this sensation is mainly due to a dopamine surge occurring throughout my brain. While this is happening, I feel a strong desire to talk to other people. So strong that while walking around outside I feel incredibly strong urges to begin talking to any random person I see. If there is no one to talk to I feel strong urges to call people I know - anyone at all. Just anything to be having a conversation with someone.

It is strange in a way in that it is the exact opposite of how I would normally feel. For some reason on the adderall, the idea of messing up a conversation or feeling embarrassed/rejected/etc are not even on my mind. I perceive these things as perhaps unwanted but they do not seem to cause any negative impact on how I am feeling. It is as if the only thing I care about is feeding my "hunger" for conversation. Simply conversing with others gives me great satisfaction.

Problems such as "What should I say?" no longer seem to exist. Somehow I know exactly what to say and everything just flows freely and naturally.

Physically, I can best describe it as sort of the buzzed feeling you get from alcohol but minus all of the mental slowdown, sedation, and loss of coordination. On the contrary, it comes along with increased mental acuity and alertness. That isn't really the perfect analogy but it is the best thing I can really think up for comparison.

Based on this description, it might sound too good to be true or that I am taking doses that are insanely high. In reality though, I have found 20mg to be very good at inducing these effects in normal day-day situations. It is only in the extremely intense social situations that I am still unsure what the optimal dose would be.


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> Absolutely not, unless you have ADD/ADHD or a much longer list of failed medications + an open-minded and generous doctor. Speaking of doctor, are you seeing a primary physician or an actual psychiatrist? You'd need the latter to have any hope of obtaining an Adderall script.


Yeah, I should add that I have both ADD and SA so that is how I came to be prescribed this combo. Also, I do see a psychiatrist rather than a primary doc.


----------



## icedCoffee (Jun 14, 2009)

Did a quick search on the internet and found this on ADD:

#1 Poor attention; excessive distractibility
#2 Physical restlessness or hyperactivity
#3 Excessive impulsivity; saying or doing things without thinking
#4 Excessive and chronic procrastination
#5 Difficulty getting started on tasks
#6 Difficulty completing tasks
#7 Frequently losing things
#8 Poor organization, planning, and time management skills
#9 Excessive forgetfulness

I have some of these problems (1,4,5,6,8,9 maybe). The biggest one that struck me is #4 which has been a huge problem of mine. But also I've noticed it's like pulling teeth to "get things done" so 5,6,8 are also causing me to struggle in things like Graduate school and just life in general. I'm really shocked at what little I get done in a day sometimes. It's like I waste so much time and don't get much done.

Anyway I've had trouble focusing on school work and I just dropped out of one program and started another. What do you think? I guess I'll have to see a doc and talk about this too. Not sure if I have it or not or maybe a mild case of it.... who knows.

I'll even procrastinate going to bed at night when I'm tired and go to bed too late most nights..... which isn't good. I'm tired the next day and wake up most mornings irritated w/ myself for staying up late for no good reason.



Kanes said:


> Yeah, I should add that I have both ADD and SA so that is how I came to be prescribed this combo. Also, I do see a psychiatrist rather than a primary doc.


----------



## icedCoffee (Jun 14, 2009)

Kanes,

Thanks so much for this post! I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out. I would love to try Adderall if I can. I don't know if I'm going to go back on zoloft after many yrs of being off it or what. But I'll be seeing a doctor soon unfortunately the great doc I had was when I was living in another state. She really was willing to try diff drugs w/ me and I never had any probs getting xanax w/ her while other docs I had in the past had made it a big hassle and wouldn't give me enough.

Anyway I may move back to the same area eventually and I can see her again so if I can't find a doc here that will give Adderall to me then hopefully I'll be able to try that if/when I move back to my old stomping grounds.

Sounds like you found the perfect or near perfect drug for yourself. Congrats! Keep us posted on your progress.



Kanes said:


> I know what you are talking about as far as the coffee feeling, but I wouldn't say that adderall is just some stronger version of coffee. I'll try to describe things as best as I can.
> 
> It does wake me up for sure. If I take it in the morning after getting very little sleep the night before, I will feel fully awake and alert as if I were fully rested - completely unaware that I had missed any sleep. It has never given me that awake but "wired" feeling that coffee often gives me when lacking sleep. Instead, adderall seems to give me a "true" awake feeling that is indistinguishable from a fully rested and alert state.
> 
> ...


----------



## BradPit (Apr 8, 2008)

I wonder if adderall would have the same effect on someone with social anxiety but not ADD/ADHD ?


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as an a-hole or anything when I said that. I guess I was just paranoid or something. I support anyone else looking for a cure for this crappy disorder.


Sorry about that comment, I think I was drunk at the time.


----------



## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

Kanes- Have you ever tried Paxil? I take Adderall and it does not help with my SA. Paxil has helped a lot with my SA.


----------



## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Sorry about that comment, I think I was drunk at the time.


I think you were stoned.


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Medline said:


> I think you were stoned.


I'm often stoned 24 hours a day, so probably .


----------



## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

bad bad bad !


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

MissMay1977 said:


> Kanes- Have you ever tried Paxil? I take Adderall and it does not help with my SA. Paxil has helped a lot with my SA.


I have tried a few SSRIs but not Paxil. They do nothing for me in treating SA except make me sleepy. I have also tried one SNRI and it caused no sleepiness but no benefit either.


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Kanes said:


> Yeah, I should add that I have both ADD and SA so that is how I came to be prescribed this combo. Also, I do see a psychiatrist rather than a primary doc.


You have ADD and take Adderall on a PRN basis? How do you deal with the ADD then on the days you don't take it?



BradPit said:


> I wonder if adderall would have the same effect on someone with social anxiety but not ADD/ADHD ?


More often than not, it's the SA sufferers who benefit from psychostimulants for SA than those with ADD or ADHD. Just check out this post from MissMay1977, she has ADHD:


> ...I take Adderall and it does not help with my SA. Paxil has helped a lot with my SA.


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I think the main reason Adderall may not help some people with SA would be the release of adrenaline/noradrenaline it causes. If there was a non-toxic, selective dopamine (and ideally, serotonin) releaser, SA would be pretty much cured (as long as tolerance is kept at bay).


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I think the main reason Adderall may not help some people with SA would be the release of adrenaline/noradrenaline it causes. If there was a non-toxic, selective dopamine (and ideally, serotonin) releaser, SA would be pretty much cured (as long as tolerance is kept at bay).


Of course it won't ameliorate everyone's SA, but for people who only need a confidence and sociability boost (like me), there's nothing I can think of that's as efficacious or as practical of a longterm solution than amphetamine. If somebody experiences physical anxiety from amphetamines, this can easily be countered by concomitant use of low-dose benzodiazepines.



euphoria said:


> If there was a non-toxic, selective dopamine (and ideally, serotonin) releaser, SA would be pretty much cured (as long as tolerance is kept at bay).


D-methamphetamine is easily the closest you can get to this. I have severe social phobia, and I believe this drug can completely cure it.


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Hmm, what's the conclusion on neurotoxicity of d-meth? I can't remember...

http://www.aapsj.org/view.asp?art=aapsj080248

Perhaps antioxidants, glutamate antagonists (magnesium, memantine), etc. could reduce these types of damage to negligible levels. I definitely wouldn't consider doing meth without them.


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Hmm, what's the conclusion on neurotoxicity of d-meth? I can't remember...
> 
> http://www.aapsj.org/view.asp?art=aapsj080248
> 
> Perhaps antioxidants, glutamate antagonists (magnesium, memantine), etc. could reduce these types of damage to negligible levels. I definitely wouldn't consider doing meth without them.


Is d-meth any more neurotoxic than other amphetamines? If not, or only slightly more, then I can't imagine it being too much of an issue unless it's used for many years on an almost daily basis. Think about it... Adderall, Dexedrine, and Ritalin (though not an amphetamine) are extremely commonly prescribed for daily use over the course of many years for ADD/ADHD patients - in high doses too.


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> Is d-meth any more neurotoxic than other amphetamines? If not, or only slightly more, then I can't imagine it being too much of an issue unless it's used for many years on an almost daily basis. Think about it... Adderall, Dexedrine, and Ritalin (though not an amphetamine) are extremely commonly prescribed for daily use over the course of many years for ADD/ADHD patients - in high doses too.


Ritalin isn't neurotoxic though, is it?

I don't think I'd worry much about any of those psychostimulants, as long as I was taking the above mentioned supplements. Without them though, it's quite easy to burn your pleasure centres out with stimulants.


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> You have ADD and take Adderall on a PRN basis? How do you deal with the ADD then on the days you don't take it?
> 
> More often than not, it's the SA sufferers who benefit from psychostimulants for SA than those with ADD or ADHD. Just check out this post from MissMay1977, she has ADHD:


I read through a thread by MissMay and her situation seems rather unusual and quite different from mine. I don't know exactly all the specifics of her problems, but she said she is primarily bipolar with SA as a secondary disorder. She also said that adderall does not make her happy. This implies to me that something very unusual is going on. Amphetamine is abused for the very reason that it can easily cause a high. If I had to guess, I would say her situation is atypical.

In my case, I am not bipolar. SA is my primary disorder. I have had severe generalized SA for as long as I can remember. I also have pretty bad depression which I consider secondary to the SA. Without an SSRI, I tend to cry a lot even in public which is difficult to conceal and even more embarrassing since I am a guy.

ADD is terribly problematic for me as well and up to this point I had considered it merely coincidental that I had both SA and ADD. Now, I feel almost entirely certain that the two disorders are somehow the result of the same problem - a deficiency in dopamine neurotransmission.

My ADD is entirely inattentive. I have no hyperactivity issues and never have had any. I was not diagnosed with ADD until recently although I had long suspected it.

Anyway to answer your question, on the days I don't take adderall my ADD is pretty bad. Still, I see it as the lesser of two evils. I have never had suicidal thoughts due to ADD. That is something I can't say about SA though.


----------



## Kanes (May 10, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Ritalin isn't neurotoxic though, is it?
> 
> I don't think I'd worry much about any of those psychostimulants, as long as I was taking the above mentioned supplements. Without them though, it's quite easy to burn your pleasure centres out with stimulants.


I am pretty sure ritalin is not neurotoxic. Neurotoxicity is a big concern for me for the long term though. I was reading a bit about amphetamine based neurotoxicity the other day and I remember reading that methamphetamine is more neurotoxic than amphetamine.

As far as preventing the neurotoxicity, the article mentioned ketamine which you have mentioned before I believe. That is interesting, but not terribly useful IMO since there's no way I could get a script for ketamine (nor am I sure that I would want one).

They also said though that benzos help protect against amphetamine induced neurotoxicity (they specifically mentioned valium I believe). They said SSRIs protect the serotonergic neurons (prozac was mentioned specifically) and it was mentioned that dopamine and norepi reuptake inhibition would protect the other types. I don't remember where I read all this from and I'm too lazy to look now.


----------



## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Kanes said:


> I am pretty sure ritalin is not neurotoxic. Neurotoxicity is a big concern for me for the long term though. I was reading a bit about amphetamine based neurotoxicity the other day and I remember reading that methamphetamine is more neurotoxic than amphetamine.
> 
> As far as preventing the neurotoxicity, the article mentioned ketamine which you have mentioned before I believe. That is interesting, but not terribly useful IMO since there's no way I could get a script for ketamine (nor am I sure that I would want one).
> 
> They also said though that benzos help protect against amphetamine induced neurotoxicity (they specifically mentioned valium I believe). They said SSRIs protect the serotonergic neurons (prozac was mentioned specifically) and it was mentioned that dopamine and norepi reuptake inhibition would protect the other types. I don't remember where I read all this from and I'm too lazy to look now.


Both ketamine and benzos probably prevent the neurotoxicity by blocking/reducing glutamate activity, respectively. For this purpose I'd say memantine is a much better choice.


----------



## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

Kanes- I agree my situation is different but I don't consider my illness a problem- I consider it a gift! I have more flavor and I am unique! :yes


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Ritalin isn't neurotoxic though, is it?


Apparently not...

*Methylphenidate and brain dopamine neurotoxicity* [link] _*>*_


> Further, the present findings confirm and extend previous results indicating that methylphenidate, unlike amphetamine, lacks DA neurotoxic potential, and strongly suggest that DA efflux, although perhaps necessary, is not sufficient for the expression of amphetamine-induced DA neurotoxicity.


-------------------------------------------------


Kanes said:


> I read through a thread by MissMay and her situation seems rather unusual and quite different from mine. I don't know exactly all the specifics of her problems, but she said she is primarily bipolar with SA as a secondary disorder. She also said that adderall does not make her happy. This implies to me that something very unusual is going on. Amphetamine is abused for the very reason that it can easily cause a high. If I had to guess, I would say her situation is atypical.


It does indeed appear atypical. I was just using her situation as an example, as I've read about many different cases of ADD/ADHD that had been successfully treated with psychostimulants, yet SA was still an untreated problem for these people. (I believe it was Dr-bob's Psychobabble where I've seen most of these cases, although I'm not entirely sure).



> My ADD is entirely inattentive. I have no hyperactivity issues and never have had any. I was not diagnosed with ADD until recently although I had long suspected it.


This very well could explain why Adderall works greatly for both your ADD and SA. Most people with ADD are diagnosed and treated at an early age, where SA is something that seems to manifest after adolescence.



Kanes said:


> ...and it was mentioned that dopamine and norepi reuptake inhibition would protect the other types [of amphetamine induced neurotoxicity]. I don't remember where I read all this from and I'm too lazy to look now.


Interesting! This study reinforces the claim that methylphenidate (an NDRI) can block neurotoxic effects of catecholamine depleting molecules:

*Methylphenidate exerts no neurotoxic, but neuroprotective effects in vitro.* [link] _*>*_


> The presented results show that application of MPH alone does not have any toxic effect on DA cells in vitro. The neurotoxic effects of MPP(+) could be significantly reduced by co-application of MPH, an effect that is most likely explained by MPH blocking the DAT.


----------



## Forthegood (Dec 12, 2010)

euphoria said:


> Just because you have some cash-hungry private doctor willing to write a script for anything, doesn't change the fact that many people use illegally-obtained Adderall/Klonopin for exactly the same purpose as you.


Dont post here. You're not a doctor, nor do you know anything about the health care system or psychotropic medicines. Doctors dont make any money by prescribing meds. They do it for two reasons:to genuinely help the patient or to prevent a*holes from suing them based on "could-have" care claims. The reason essential meds are expensive is largely because they are regulated so heavily. There are so many who suffer because they don't have the time and money to convince a doc and an insurance company that they ARE suffering and not looking for a high--which, anyway, neither you nor anyone has a right to deny them. If you are anti-involuntary servitude (slavery in constitutional terms) and believe humans own their bodies then you must, if logic binds you, believe humans OWN their bodies.


----------



## rollthebones (Mar 6, 2015)

I too have found the Adderall + Klonopin combination to be effective, but getting most doctors to prescribe this combo is nearly impossible. One pharmacy reported me to my doctors because I had one doctor prescribing me one med and the other doctor prescribing me the other and apparently their "system" views the simultaneous combination of "uppers" and "downers" as bad, or incorrect. One doctor told me "would it make sense to hit the gas while hitting the brakes?” Although, I disagree with him based on my experience, because it is the most effective combination I've experienced. The only other thing that worked was high doses of pain pills, and I think ANYBODY would agree that medicating SA with pain pills is FAR MORE potentially problematic than combining these two! 

On a separate note, has anybody found that once you have had some success in social situations with a little help from RX that your natural self-confidence improves and therefore requires less medication for subsequent social situations?


----------



## IlIlIlIrlpoloIlIlIlI (Feb 5, 2012)

Speaking from experience all those options you described are terrible for you. Same goes for the last question.


----------

