# Is there really any point to professors giving out hard exams?



## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

And what I mean by hard is that going to class, reading the chapter and doing the homework won't really prepare you to do well on the exam. I currently have an accounting pofessor liek this. Some past ratings on her ratmyprofessor page say that the class midterm and final average was like a 70, which is not that good. (Yet somehow she still has an okay rating) I don't take the midterm until tomorrow but I've taken her hard quizzes which are supposed to represent the midterm. The homework from the book is far easier so clearly the textbook makers did not intend for the material to be as hard as she is making it.

Why write exams that make students do mental gymnastics? Not every test needs to be difficult, they just need to make students show that they have been reading, that they know the material and know how to do the problems presented to them.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Professors want to see if you can think critically. That's important, because you won't succeed in the job market if all you can do is understand the reading. It's also a way to separate the people who are genuinely interested in the major and those that aren't as serious. I know it sucks, but usually there is a reason. I will admit that sometimes profs are just plain mean.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah but how critically does she want me to think? I can figure out how to do any of the homework problems but her quizzes and tests are on a whole different level.

My last professor didn't do this ****. The class average was much higher too.. it was in the mid 80's I think.

Just because you have a high IQ and can figure stuff like this out doesn't mean the rest of us can.


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## CoastalSprite (Sep 8, 2011)

I have conflicted feelings on this.. my economics professor gave exams that were notoriously difficult- you could read from cover to cover, memorize all notes- and that would not prepare you for the questions that were asked.

I *hated *them at the time, but in hindsight, I realized just how much I had learned from that class compared to the ones that did what you describe- simply take material from readings and homework. A friend told me she knew people who would sign up for one economics class, skip it, and go sit in on this professor's lectures _because _it was more out of the box, rather than cut and paste (there were like 500 students in class at once, so none would be the wiser).

They really suck though and can be unfair/unrewarding to those who put in a lot of time and effort into the course. I do not like them but can understand why some instructors design their exams this way.


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## vanishingpt (Mar 9, 2012)

For a difficult class, I don't think 70 is that bad of an average. Some of my friends take difficult engineering courses and the class average will be in the 60's sometimes.

As someone else has already mentioned, I think a lot of it has to do with critical thinking and how flexible your thought process can be. It's learning how to apply things you've learned through notes and readings, and seeing it in a different perspective so you can apply that knowledge to different problems.

Of course not all classes are like this, and sometimes professors don't create the best exams but difficulty levels are meant to push you and view the course material in a different manner. Things don't always follow the textbook layout and organization, so it's learning to apply the concepts in different ways perhaps.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

CoastalSprite said:


> They really suck though and can be unfair/unrewarding to those who put in a lot of time and effort into the course.


That's the thing, I feel like if someone is smart enough to know the material as well as the authors intended they shouldn't be punished for it with a very difficult test.

Either way, I can't pass if the exams my professor is giving me are too hard, so yeah. I hate these types of professors and I hope to avoid them as much as possible.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

"Critical thinking skills" is just a fancy way of saying "high intelligence". Let's not kid ourselves.

It feels like some professors just what to know who the most intelligent person in their class is so they fill it with g-loaded questions, when their objective should be whether they understood the material.


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## llodell88 (May 15, 2011)

I'm taking accounting/business classes. All of my classes have around 70% average on tests. I don't find them hard but I don't go to a good university so I'm probably not sitting in a lecture hall with lots of really bright people. My accounting class was the easiest of of all my classes to get an A in because we got bonus point quizzes every week. On the other hand at the CC I went to I struggled with accounting more than any other types of classes I had (and that's coming from someone who's racked up about 90 credits there so I have a good idea what it's like). I think accounting professors tend to make it harder than it is too. Even though my professor at Uni was easy I felt like I learned more there with so much less time/effort because she was a better teacher and I knew exactly what I needed to do to get an A in the class.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

llodell88 said:


> I'm taking accounting/business classes. All of my classes have around 70% average on tests. I don't find them hard but I don't go to a good university so I'm probably not sitting in a lecture hall with lots of really bright people. My accounting class was the easiest of of all my classes to get an A in because we got bonus point quizzes every week. On the other hand at the CC I went to I struggled with accounting more than any other types of classes I had (and that's coming from someone who's racked up about 90 credits there so I have a good idea what it's like). I think accounting professors tend to make it harder than it is too. Even though my professor at Uni was easy I felt like I learned more there with so much less time/effort because she was a better teacher and I knew exactly what I needed to do to get an A in the class.


Thank you. I don't know why some people seem to think that a hard teacher equals good a teacher.

Being a total hardass for no particular reason harms students more than it helps them IMO. This usually just end up sapping most students' motivation.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Part of the problem at my school is that because so many students cheat, the professors can not use the test bank that comes with the textbook. So they end up making the test themselves or even worse using the test bank from a different textbook or even from some CPA review book. 

I think accounting professors tend toward the sadistic side too.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

komorikun said:


> Part of the problem at my school is that because so many students cheat, the professors can not use the test bank that comes with the textbook. So they end up making the test themselves or even worse using the test bank from a different textbook or even from some CPA review book.
> 
> I think accounting professors tend toward the sadistic side too.


I have a midterm tomorrow and I'm 90% sure I'm going to fail it. I'm probably going to end up taking the class again with another professor.

All because my IQ isn't as high as my professor wants it to be.


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## Nono441 (May 14, 2012)

The point isn't to learn the textbook by heart. It's to understand the concepts involved and be able to think critically about them and apply them to other problems. That said, tedious exam questions which are seemingly designed to frustrate students are annoying, yes.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Nono441 said:


> The point isn't to learn the textbook by heart. It's to understand the concepts involved and be able to think critically about them and apply them to other problems. That said, tedious exam questions which are seemingly designed to frustrate students are annoying, yes.


Who the hell said I was just memorizing the textbook? Why are you making these assumptions?

I can do the homework problems just fine so clearly my understanding of the concepts isn't that ****ed up.


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## Tensor (Mar 9, 2013)

I don't know about accounting, but in physics a common tactic is to write exams such that the average student is expected to get about 50% of a perfect score. Scores higher than that indicate an exceptional student and scores lower than that are forwarded to McDonald's HR. Those who write the test don't always get it correct, however, so a grading curve is often introduced to bring the actual scores in line with the expected distribution.

Lectures are meant to introduce knowledge, homework is meant to solidify that knowledge, and tests are meant to stretch that knowledge. Incidentally in the real (professional) world, employers don't need workers that can do homework problems or regurgitate textbook information. They need workers who can apply their skills to problems they may not have encountered before. If exams are difficult and not just sitting in a classroom doing homework problems for two hours, then grades can be a good way to filter the gems from the sediment.

As I said, the above applies to the physical sciences. Accounting may very well be completely different.


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## StNaive (Feb 21, 2013)

When I took a year of accounting, I found most teachers were like that. The explanation that was always given was that they basically only want the very best to make it all the way through, because that's how the business environment post-school is. I'm not sure whether I think it's fair, to be honest, but I definitely agree that it can be frustrating to get exams with questions about concepts you didn't even know existed. Just do the best you can, and remember that you can always change majors if you find accounting is too much/not something you want to do.


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## FerociousFleur (Oct 30, 2012)

Tensor said:


> I don't know about accounting, but in physics a common tactic is to write exams such that the average student is expected to get about 50% of a perfect score. Scores higher than that indicate an exceptional student and scores lower than that are forwarded to McDonald's HR. Those who write the test don't always get it correct, however, so a grading curve is often introduced to bring the actual scores in line with the expected distribution.
> 
> Lectures are meant to introduce knowledge, homework is meant to solidify that knowledge, and tests are meant to stretch that knowledge. Incidentally in the real (professional) world, employers don't need workers that can do homework problems or regurgitate textbook information. They need workers who can apply their skills to problems they may not have encountered before. If exams are difficult and not just sitting in a classroom doing homework problems for two hours, then grades can be a good way to filter the gems from the sediment.
> 
> As I said, the above applies to the physical sciences. Accounting may very well be completely different.


This is what I'm thinking, too. A lot of professors who teach difficult classes (especially intro classes for difficult degrees & upper level classes that you take in your last couple years) want to weed out the students who don't work their asses off. It helps keep the school's standards and reputation at a high level, rather than letting just anyone pass their classes & graduate. Fair or not, I've seen it pretty often.

Yes, a teacher SHOULD let students know what they need to study and help them practice applying their skills to pass the exams... but that's only IF the teacher wants everyone to pass the exams. This is a big difference between high school & college.

Accounting is a very difficult degree, from what I hear. I know it's frustrating. If you really want to stick with it, don't give up!


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

A lot of accounting students at my school change their major to finance or whatever when they find they can't hack intermediate accounting.

And just taking the prerequisite is not enough to get into intermediate. You also have to take an exam. When I first got there, you could take that exam as many times as necessary. Now it's limited to 2 tries. Fail both times >>>> change majors.

Accounting is still not nearly as bad as engineering/math/sciences. You need to be a little bright but not very.


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