# Stablon (tianeptine)



## Medline

I'm not sure it's available in the US, but I read alot about it yesterday. It is a serotonin reuptake enhancer and seems to be as effective as SSRIs, especially for depressed persons with anxiety. If it's not available in the US, then to all the good therapy-resistant users in other countries: You may give Stablon a try.


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## euphoria

I believe SSRIs increase activity on autoreceptors, leading to reduction in 5-HT synthesis and release. This causes the initial depressive phase of SSRI treatment, but resolves when autoreceptors partially downregulate and you're left with overall reduction in initial serotonin "signals", but major enhancement of these in the synapses by the SSRI. The result is a more constant serotonin activity but reduction in intensity, tending towards zero generally (rather than depression or euphoria). Y'know, the feeling of "meh".

With tianeptine, the opposite is true. Serotonin uptake is blocked and the autoreceptors sense a dip in activity, thus immediately ramping up synthesis and release. Your end result is a lot more serotonin "signals" (or "emotions"), but those being reabsorbed more quickly than usual. You don't really gain much either way, though you "lose" a lot with SSRI initiation and withdrawal.

It's really a choice of either amplification of emotion or flattening, but neither mean "improving". What's the choice then?

Block those bloody autoreceptors, that's what! This will trick them into thinking they need to produce/release more serotonin, but at no cost as with SSRIs/SSREs. I think I've already talked about how to do this in other threads.


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## Medline

It's a nice drug ("mood brightener") with proven efficiency and low side effects, working good for depressed people with anxiety. That's all I wanted to say. Your'e PEA + Selegiline + Lexapro + NRI + Carvedilol combo sounds interesting. But if it works in the real world like you hope is a whole different story. 

How can you block those autoreceptors by the way (could you please give me the link to the thread)?


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## euphoria

I can't remember the thread, but the answer is yohimbine. It blocks 5-HT1B an 5-HT1D (among other actions), giving instant (yet sustainable) serotonin increase without withdrawal prospects or sexual side-effects (negative ones, anyway...).

The only problem is yohimbine blocks alpha-2 adrenergic receptors, so dose up on carvedilol then you're set.

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v29/n6/abs/1300418a.html


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## Medline

But Yohimbine isn't a very potent AD or anxiolytic. Tianeptine has also no withdrawal or sexual side effects AFAIK. Pindolol as augmentation for SSRIs sounds interesting too because of this autoreceptor story. At least it should speed things up.


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## euphoria

Well I've read tianeptine isn't as great as it's claimed to be, especially for SA.

Yohimbine only isn't potent because it causes too much adrenergic release before effective doses can be reached. I assure you, block those receptors enough (and take carvedilol) and you *will* get results. I will know within 1 week.


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## Medline

Let us know.  So what are you taking exactly at the moment by the way?


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## euphoria

Just escitalopram and some supplements. I have no money and am going through mild benzo withdrawal, so times are hard . This week I plan to buy carvedilol and yohimbine (and reduce SSRI dose), and either get amisulpiride prescribed or buy it online. The PEA thing is on hold.

I feel awful. Ugh. Slept 1 hour last night. I need some phenobarbital for this.


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## Medline

You seem to have a rough time, take it easy with the drugs/supps in the near future.


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## euphoria

Strangely, I now seem almost entirely free from benzo withdrawal. I took approximately 500mg l-theanine (via tea) with a little caffeine, then felt a mild boost followed by a crash, then followed by now. I was only on a withdrawal from short-term over-use, but maybe the theanine increased GABA and glutamate then reset the GABA/benzodiazepine receptor to its proper function? I dunno, but I feel markedly better.


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## Medline

L-Theanine is for sure a good supplement for mild Benzo withdrawal, take another 500mg if you feel discomfort.


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## Medline

Thanks for that.


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## Beffrey28

So what do you guys think is best to take with Selegiline, PEA;
1. NRI or Cardevidol
2. SSRI, SNRI or Yohimbine (Euphoria recommends this one)
3. Klonopin or Xanax (as needed)


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## Medline

Could we leave the PEA + Selegiline things in the PEA + Selegiline thread please?  For the first time I would combine a low dose of Selegiline 5mg with about 50-100mg PEA and take 25mg Carvedilol before this event. Benzos as needed if too much stimulation occurs (which I doubt).


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## Beffrey28

Haha ok sorry, i will keep it to the Stablon discussion. Do you think it can be more effective with Selegiline than Lexapro?
Sorry for all the questions, wish i was as knowledgable with meds as you guys!


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## flickaflicka

I've taken Stablon for anxiety and SA, and as someone who's been off of it now for a week or so, I can say that it definitely works... ; P

I decided to discontinue because I thought I might be getting some side effects from the drug. I've always had word finding difficulties, but then while taking the drug I started to speak incorrect words in place of other words (for instance, work instead of word, pizza instead of picture). Funny stuff, but a particularly cruel situation for someone who has a phobia about speaking to people in the first place!

I thought it might be attributed to the tianaptine, and so stopped taking it. Still having funky aphasia like speech problems, but now my anxiety has returned! Oh, and how. I've have only been off it for a week.

I chose to take the drug because tianeptine has a unique profile and has been shown to help regrow brain cells in the hippocampus and rebalance the HPA access without the side effects of SSRI's (in my case emotional blunting).

It seems to have done that, but may also be responsible for the speaking problems I've been having. Either that or this is something that would have cropped up in me regardless. I haven't heard of _anyone_ else having these problems with the drug. So, probably just me????

Anyway, if you want to learn more, be in touch.


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## Medline

Word finding problems are not listed as possible side effects for Stablon like they are for eg. Topamax. It may be a unique experience. Do you have speech problems without drugs? How much Stablon did you take (3 x 12.5mg?) and for how long? How fast did it help with your anxiety and how good in relation to other drugs or on a scale of 1 to 10? Did it help with depression (if you have this comorbid disorder)? Do you think it's a good anti-SA drug? In general it should have very few side effects. Thanks!

Edit: Just read you have some speech problems without drugs, so forget that question.


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## TiMeZuP

any update


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## db0255

Pretty sure Yohimbine is an ANTI-antidepressant....


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## normal

Hello, I am from the U.S but currently live in Norway. I suffer from depression and get all the meds that I would normally get back home here. I really want to try Stablon, but am not sure if it is used here in Norway or not. I dont see my doc for a few weeks and you know how that is when you dont feel good. I have looked it up as much as I could and have no idea if they prescribe Stablon here. I tried searching the web under all the brand names and the generic name and nothing. Searched the pharmacy website here with the same info and nothing. I have a feeling that they dont use it here and I am thinking the best thing to do is to order it online. I just dont want to wait 2 weeks just to find out they dont prescribe it here and than have to order it online and wait another 3 weeks for delivery and that is if it makes it through customs here. The way this place is, I seriously doubt they have it in this Country, but if you know if they do prescribe it in Norway or have any idea where to find a list of countries that do or do not prescribe Stablon, I would really appreciate any information. Of course it is a holiday weekend and nothing is open for me to call and find out for a few days. Thank you guys very much for all your help!


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## zodiac55

*back on the yohimbine + carvedilol idea..*

Heh.. I'd been rather curious about Euphoria's 'theoretically-sound' idea conception for Yohimbine in combination with Carvedilol to block the NE-increase symptomology.

I'm not looking to get SA benefits from it, per se (though of course, that would be welcomed ), as much as... just the motivational/pro-sexual -type aspect of it. I've used Yohimbine in the past (never with SSRI's, as I'm definitely not a huge fan of their mechanism of action, myself :/) to quite interesting success.. even in terms of performance at the gym, etc. etc. -- but yeah, really hated the NE-type effects (and discontinued as a result).

Sorry to post this here, but I just kinda wanted to give the idea a bit of a bump, since I haven't been able to find any sort of reply/write-up about the Yohimbine + Carvedilol combo in practice yet (unless the Search function is deceiving me  pardon, I'm still a rather new poster here..).

I've got both Yoh + Carvedilol currently available to me, so I figure I might give it a go and post a follow-up thread somewhere, if it would be of any interest to anyone. (And again, if anyone's tried this to any success/failure, or you've since changed your view on the efficacy of this, Euphoria, feel free to drop a line..).

best
-Z


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## euphoria

I don't remember the thought process that went into that idea, but I was talking out of my arse back then. None of my posts should be taken too seriously.

I'm not too sure how good yohimbine would be for mood, even without the noradrenaline increase. If you wanted to block the stimulating effect, clonidine would probably be much more suitable than carvedilol as it directly balances yohimbine's alpha-2 antagonist effects, being an agonist.

If I took yohimbine in any combination, it'd probably be a low dose combined with an SSRI (and possibly clonidine if it's too stimulating). They could have a good synergy. Selegiline thrown into the mix (as you suggested) might be useful, and memantine is a good addition to any regimen...


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## zodiac55

@Euphoria >>

Good thoughts, there, man... and yeh, I figured you might say so, as those were some of your older musings  but alas... it really sparked something of an interest for me, and I'm very thankful -- as the results have been nothing short of phenomenal. I'll go into more detail as to why below.

Though my understanding of adrenergic receptors is laughable, at best, I would first like to point out that Yohimbine is Everything that I Ever needed in terms of mood and motivation (the increased day-to-day sexual interest is greatly welcomed!) -- which is truly saying A WHOLE LOT, since I've tried literally dozens of "catecholamine-activating" and related therapies in the past in hopes of mood help, and nothing has had NEARLY as good of a proper and consistent "anti-negativity" inspirational effect as Yohimbine. Even with my somewhat-limited knowledge, I can't help but speculate heavily that this is actually due to some of the 5-HT mechanisms of Yohimbine, maybe?? Any thoughts here?

(I have indeed come across some of those new finds about Yohimbine potentiating SSRI effects after seeing you mention it a little while back in some of the threads I was reading, though *personally* I would prefer not to ever indenture my well-being to SSRI's, so they're sort of out of the question). 

Even more interestingly: For me, parasympathetic-type "smooth muscle relaxation" has ALWAYS been very off... tension w/o proper relaxation (this happens poorly even when I'm not on anything -- and is understandably impaired further by pure catecholamine-boosting agents). Simply supplementing with choline/cholinesterase-inhibitors/B-5 has never really brought this back the right way (i.e. cholinesterase-inhibitors would only strengthen the general SYMPATHETIC output with the enhanced ACh floating around :/). This has always disheartened me, as literally nothing has really helped tremendously.......... until now >>>> because due to my absolute astoundment, I've found that Carvedilol, unlike metoprolol, has consistently restored this smooth-muscle-relaxation insufficiency VERY properly and profoundly for me! (I realize that the two are quite varied in method of action.)

I'm... inclined to assume that this is due to the fact that, with its broad-spectrum adrenergic-blockade in the mix(+yohimbine's awesome mood "pick-up"), the noradrenaline is no longer "acting on much of anything"... am I on the right track?

Alas, If this is so perfect, then what has the drawback been, you ask?

Well -- it's just... a shame that Carvedilol is SO non-selective, and is pretty much binding to and mostly antagonizing ALL adrenergic activity across the board ... when really it's maybe just one or two of the beta-receptors being blocked or something that is responsible for its awesome "parasympathetic-restoration" property.. (?). I wouldn't mind this broad-spectrum blockade so much, as Carvedilol is generally a fairly gentle and tolerable drug in the dosages I've used (4-6mg bi-daily) except that I ...really rather hate the "sluggish-weight-gain" effect that I notice from using it in addition to the awesome "parasympathetic restoration."

So yeah, do you perhaps have any insight as to what I could be looking at to achieve Carvedilol's astounding "parasympathetic-disinhibition" effect (while on Yohimbine for Mood awesomeness) without the odd fat-weight-gain side-effects? Maybe a more specific adrenergic-antagonist can be used instead... or simply a Beta-2-agonist or something??) I actually quite welcome Yohimbine's "diet/cutting" metabolic action, and I'm not really averse to its general stimulation effects (though I have come to think that my body's noradrenaline system is expressed well enough as is, and have actually greatly reduced/removed Selegiline from my stack, despite its nice dopaminergic potentials, for this reason *** < removing Selegiline ALSO hasn't impaired Yohimbine's awesome mood-effects one bit for me!). It's just that when I'm on Yohimbine alone, I find that I don't have enough of the 'parasympathetic' grounding to back it up properly whatsoever on a pure-chemical level (with again, choline/b5/etc. not having much help for this, and CARVEDILOL being of profound help !!).

An odd puzzle of sorts, truly (though what about the human body ever isn't..)..  Thanks for reading, and sorry for this being in the Tianeptine thread... if you'd rather take it to PM or whatever else, do whatever you think is best for the boards, Euphoria. And again, any other random musings are more than welcome and will be taken with the appropriate level of consideration (not foolishly, worry not ).

/////////////////
From a body/mind union perspective, many of us anxiety sufferers (probably more than are aware of this) have some form of a parasympathetic-insufficiency symptomology at the "chemical-level," even if they don't have the clear-cut "poor smooth muscle relaxation" issue that I tend to have when it's kinda off. And, from my experience, a properly-uninhibited parasympathetic relaxation function is VERY critical in maintaining the proper CONNECTION of mind/EMOTIONS to bodily endocrine responses, etc., thereby reducing anxiety symptoms (this IS more of my area of specialty, so I can say this with quite some confidence^) as meditation/yoga has clearly shown. So yeh, hopefully no one beats up on me for posting such a specific-to-myself reply  as this discussion really might help a broad spectrum of people..!


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## euphoria

To be honest I don't know enough about pharmacology or biology to answer all that, lol. Yeah I'd say the serotonin activity of yohimbine is responsible for some of the mood effects. If it was me, I'd directly block yohimbine's adrenergic effect with an a2 agonist like clonidine, as then you'd avoid the nonspecific actions of carvedilol and directly curtail the anxiogenic part.


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## zodiac55

I hear ya.. it's quite a boggling scenario as it is.. and just cuz it's too much for me to understand doesn't mean I shouldn't assume it's WAY overly complicated for anyone to theorize about, in general.

I'll write some results on it/related stuff sometime (in the appropriate threads) but yeh. 

Hey, how's Zoloft 200mg working out for you, in general ... and as far as overall "color-of-life" and/or social inspiration etc., too (if those are even criteria that you're going for with it*)?


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## euphoria

By the way, I think it may be the alpha 1 adrenergic receptor blocking that's causing the smooth muscle relaxation or whatever.

Not feeling good at all, spend most of my time lying in bed or using the computer. Total apathy and misery. I doubled my Zoloft dose about a week ago, which has as expected made me feel worse. Had to take benzos to manage the anxiety. In under a week it should turn around and start working... Then I add Wellbutrin.


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## euphoria

Wait, I just read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker

Activation of the beta-2 receptor results in smooth muscle relaxation. Thought you might be interested.


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## zodiac55

Ahh yeh... wowsers, quite the misery to go through... but for something that might have the best effect yet, perhaps worth it, eh? Just glad that you've been paying attention enough to the exact time frame (especially with the tricky SSRI's :/) of effects on mood etc., so at least you have quite an accurate idea about what the light at the end of the tunnel should be like -- ehh best wishes there..!!

Funny that you pasted that, as I've indeed been keeping my mind on the wiki entries about these... but in all honesty, I figure with my limited actual-knowledge, there runs a high chance for giant interpretive errors... where something like "smooth muscle relaxation" that might simply be a vague generalization, might turn out to have an entirely different type of effect than I'd want (though admittedly, I got really excited when I first read it myself, a few days back).  Ah well. It's not like I really have that much room to complain anyway... probably just being a bit greedy there, since honestly, the progress I've already got is enough to be wayy thankful for. Anyhow, time to go get some productive stuff done... thanks for replyin and all, man -- I'll shoot ya PM or something if I ever run into any crazy breakthroughs or whatnot.


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## burner00

Since i cant seem to find an official thread on Stablon i would post this awesome report on its pharmacology over here.

Surprise Surprise Stablon is actually a benzo. The french fooled us bigtime. 



> Stablon is a benzodiazepine derivative (technically it's a Dibenzothiazepine - that's where it gets its strong anxiolytic (calming) effect - though it acts differently in other ways.
> 
> Check out its beautiful butterfly wings!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's some whole classes of nasty psychoactives that have the 'wings'. The wings are made of rings - carbon rings. Two benzene rings form the 'wings', attached to a seven-sided central ring. Some have a long tail like Stablon, others not so much.
> 
> The long tail on this guy does two things. It's got a long chain of saturated hydrocarbon, which makes it lipophilic. But, on the end is a carboxyl group - making it like a carboxylic acid (long-chain fatty acids being another example). The carboxyl makes it water-soluble, yet like a soap (salt of fatty carboxylic acids) it can penetrate fatty areas too. Exposed carboxyls have strong interaction with water molecules, unlike the lipophilic backbone.
> 
> And just like the benzos, Stablon and its few companions share the long-term accomodation - tolerance - and very-long-term withdrawal effects. Stop taking it now and find out what they are  Ya only gets to see one face of a drug when it's started, the other when it's withdrawn. Gotta see all sides to get the full picture.
> 
> My personal opinion is that butterfly molecules turn people into subtle psychos. Just like House of Butterflies, something only slightly less bad than what tetraethyl-lead did to the workers there. People think butterflies are beautiful, but when they fly away their true ugliness is revealed. Withdraw now or forever repent.


Source: Brainmeta


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## broflovski

I'm not sure that this depends on particular structure features ("wings" or smth), and we don't know much its analogues to compare, but tianeptine is highly addictive. In excessive doses it's as addictive (and more euphoric) than benzos. 
But it doesn't work as benzo anyway. I'd compare it to opioids: it has analgesic properties, increases mesolimbic dopamine and there are anecdotal reports on its partial substitution for opiates (possibly via enkephalinase inhibition).


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## broflovski

Oh, just read the whole thread... you guys discussed the idea to which I came only recently. I mean yohimbine as SSRI augmentation, but I have never emphasized the aspect of serotonin autoreceptors antagonism, and believed that it is a2-adrenergic _heteroreceptors_ on serotonin terminals, that are blocked and this is behind yohimbine pro-serotonin action. So glad to find a more complete view.


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## ugh1979

I had Stablon as part of my weekly regime for 5 weeks but didn't notice anything too special about it so dropped it for cost reasons. I was only taking it once a week, but that actually sounds like good practice in light of the above. I might reintroduce it as a trial once I've fully established my regime as it's still quiet early days in refining it.


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## csrpj

tianeptine is addictive, but as i understand it has very low dependence?
but also, addiction has been reported in very rare cases, and when taken in huge/expensive quantities, no?

i'm actually gonna start tianpetine in about a week.


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## broflovski

csrpj said:


> tianeptine is addictive, but as i understand it has very low dependence?


Paradoxically there are only a few abuse reports in English, but in Russia tianeptine abuse (especially intravenous with horrible sequences) has become a sort of epidemic, resulting in ban on the drug. Myself I never exceeded a dose highly, never abused it IV, and never noticed any withdrawal, but I did felt psychological compulsive craving for a drug. It may be my individual reaction, but I find tianeptine to be one of the most rewarding substances. I would take it forever for 50 mg/daily and live a blissful life, if it wasn't banned here.


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## jim_morrison

burner00 said:


> Surprise Surprise Stablon is actually a benzo. The french fooled us bigtime.


Not exactly, even a slightly different arrangement of similar molecules can lead to a completly different pharmacological profile, for example among the atypical antipsychotics, Olanzapine is clasified as a Thienobenzodiazepine, Quetiapine as a Dibenzothiazepine and Clozapine is a Dibenzodiazepine. However None of these chemicals have any relevant binding affinity for the GABA-benzodiazapine receptor complex in the brain because the structures are arranged differently.

So whilst they may all contain diazepine and benzene rings, they have different structural arrangements, meaning that they bind to different receptors and antagonize different neurotransmitters leading to very different effects.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=796473&postcount=10

See here for a more detailed explanation.


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## csrpj

broflovski said:


> Paradoxically there are only a few abuse reports in English, but in Russia tianeptine abuse (especially intravenous with horrible sequences) has become a sort of epidemic, resulting in ban on the drug. Myself I never exceeded a dose highly, never abused it IV, and never noticed any withdrawal, but I did felt psychological compulsive craving for a drug. It may be my individual reaction, but I find tianeptine to be one of the most rewarding substances. I would take it forever for 50 mg/daily and live a blissful life, if it wasn't banned here.


how long were you on tianeptine?
as far as taking it forever, does that work, in terms of long-term tolerance?

if it works for you, maybe you should buy it online. i know it's pretty expensive, but this is your moment-to-moment well-being we're talking about...?


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## broflovski

I used tianeptine for an year, my doc has nothing against it even now, but it is pushed out of the market. Online purchase is extremely expensive (including delivery to my region) and illegal now, because tianeptine has been scheduled. And although tianeptine is claimed to be that outstanding substance affecting very deep roots of depression via neuroplasticity, thus providing sustainable long-term effect... I have personally enjoyed only its acute rewarding hit, different from real therapeutic action (that i hardly ever noticed), and it's something queerly about this drug, though this effect is hedonistic, but highly compatible with working etc in contrast to, say, opioids. And yes, tolerance to this pleasant effect develops quickly.


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## planetmed

Stablon worked very well! Within days and with no sexual side effects! Much better than a SSRI! But unfortunately it pooped out completely after 6-8 months :-(
I noticed no addiction and no withdrawal.


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## burner00

jim_morrison said:


> Not exactly, even a slightly different arrangement of similar molecules can lead to a completly different pharmacological profile, for example among the atypical antipsychotics, Olanzapine is clasified as a Thienobenzodiazepine, Quetiapine as a Dibenzothiazepine and Clozapine is a Dibenzodiazepine. However None of these chemicals have any relevant binding affinity for the GABA-benzodiazapine receptor complex in the brain because the structures are arranged differently.
> 
> So whilst they may all contain diazepine and benzene rings, they have different structural arrangements, meaning that they bind to different receptors and antagonize different neurotransmitters leading to very different effects.
> 
> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=796473&postcount=10
> 
> See here for a more detailed explanation.


You forgot to emphasize on the wink there at the end. It was sarcasm. Sorry if my bump made the story ground breaking, When it actually just talks about how stablon can be as addicitng as benzos.

Interesting the anti-psychotic meds containg diazepine and benzene rings is news to me. Thanks for the link. The guy seriously nailed it.


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## burner00

If you take the recommended dose of 12.5mg 3 times a day you will never get addicted. 

People has taken this for a decade has never reported anything related with toxicity, withdrawals, and side effects. It's perfectly safe.

Anothing thing about the SSRI vs SSRE debate. This thing beats SSRI comfortably hands down if safety is the most concern even in efficiency it is miles better. The reuptake inhibiting or enhancing of serotonin is of less importance. These meds seem to stimulate neurogenesis, which affects brain plasticity, more than anything else. Stablon is better at this.

Ignore the Russia phenomena that made drug banned. They were all bunch of junkies. Injecting grams of tineptine is f---ing insane.


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## csrpj

planetmed said:


> Stablon worked very well! Within days and with no sexual side effects! Much better than a SSRI! But unfortunately it pooped out completely after 6-8 months :-(
> I noticed no addiction and no withdrawal.


aww, this is too bad. but at least there were no withdrawals. i guess - in this day and age, anyway - you can't have it all. did you try to up the dosage? i'm curious what others' experiences are with the popping out, and if there are any standard protocols - perhaps used by p-docs in the countries where it's prescribed - to deal with this.


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## burner00

Yes if the efficacy is phasing out try upping the dose. Even then you will not get addicted. We are talking here 75mgs a day.


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## broflovski

burner00 said:


> Yes if the efficacy is phasing out try upping the dose. Even then you will not get addicted. We are talking here 75mgs a day.


Hm... that russian junkies thought the same way. There is some risk.

But you're right basically. Tianeptine gives instant relief via dopaminergic action and long-term cure via neuroplasticity changes.


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## planetmed

csrpj said:


> aww, this is too bad. but at least there were no withdrawals. i guess - in this day and age, anyway - you can't have it all. did you try to up the dosage? i'm curious what others' experiences are with the popping out, and if there are any standard protocols - perhaps used by p-docs in the countries where it's prescribed - to deal with this.


Yes, i tried to up the dosage from 3 to 4 tablets, then from 4 to 5. (3 is the recommended dosage) It only helped shortly and i didnt want to up it again any higher. So i quit.
That was almost 1 year ago, lets see, maybe i will take them again in the next months, hopefully tolerance is gone in the meantime. Maybe cycle them and not taking them every day is a good idea?
I would really like to quit my Lexapro and take Stablon again but i dont know if they work again :-(


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## planetmed

burner00 said:


> Yes if the efficacy is phasing out try upping the dose. Even then you will not get addicted. We are talking here 75mgs a day.


75mg, that are 6 tablets. How long are you taking them? Dont you think you have to go higher soon? What do you think is the highest safe dose?
Another thing is, the tabletts are **** expensive. I orderd them over the internet. And 6 or more tabletts a day...hmmm


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## burner00

75 is the peak dose. If you go any higher than that that means tolerance is setting in fast and that is going to be a bad news because the more you up the dose the more the affordability issues will arise.


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## planetmed

what a shame! :-( How many months do you take Stablon till now?


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## burner00

See long time ago I took stablon for about 3 months when i was severly depressed. 

It gave me a great mood lift to cope with depression. Depression was 80% gone. Moreover it was higly anxiolytic to me. Mild stimulant i dont think so, it made me feel drowsy. 

The dose i was talking is as follows:
morning: 25mg on empty stomach
evening: 12.5mg
late evening: 12.5mg

The consistency was unbelievable. I had the same mood lifting with this dosage plan everyday. 

After 3 months i withdrew stablon because i no longer needed it although i use it as prn basis for the funz .

To conclude Stablon was one of the main component in fixing my depression.


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## zodiac55

Nice.

Trying stablon today @ 50mg as we speak, after noticing effects that were way too subtle from 2x12.5mg and 3x12.5mg... as per your advice. Having a good grip on this process overall, I'm not too worried even if the idea was about something potentially iffy.. which it is not, judging from reports all over (though I always feel bad suggesting stuff like that to others personally, in case someone reacts like some kinda failed guinea pig... ;]).

Background-wise -- in case my reports are at all helpful -- I have no recreational goal with pharms... and very specific criteria for improvements (which, of all things, BACLOFEN has helped with the most to date, with an onset of incredibly practical and real empathogenic inspiration feeling that came from pure abolishment of anxiety. I define anxiety as disconnecting, quantifiable somewhere in the psyche -- whether between [intent] and [expression] or wherever, really).

No such luck so far on stablon though, alas, but like I said... it's on my list of trials (combined with practice, learning, self-improvement, etc. etc. of course) so I figured I might as well give it a worthwhile shot.

One question, though: You are saying that at lower dosages there is no tolerance, yet ABOVE the 75mg dosage there is..? I feel like I'm misinterpreting this or something -- are you implying that one can take 75mg daily and be safe long-term without upping the dose, but higher than that and you run into trouble, or what?


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## broflovski

Baclofen is also widely abused as cheap and easy-available drug by russian teens (here is a kingdom of junkies, ya), and I tried it with nearly recreational effect from range 50-100 mg. It is almost the same molecule as phenibut, widely discussed here, with additional chlorine atom. Then i shifted to phenibut - it's more psychologically comfort to use nootropic tranquilizer than (ab)use muscle relaxant off-label. Empathogenic and calming effects are similar (but baclofen is actually harder).
As for tianeptine, i noticed that high doses (5*12,5 daily) make me a kind dull (tianeptine is known to decrease acetilcholine release) and even nervous (after acute dopaminergic action wanes rapidly due its extremely short half-life). Each time I felt an urge to return myself back in tianeptine state, which was blissful even at 1-2 pills. 
More dosing on the same day had no effect at all, so i needed either to eat a handful of pills (this is the way leading to addiction in patients even without pre-history of drug abuse) or decrease a dose to beat the tolerance. I have always chosen the latter, because of financial, moral and health issues. And i would follow the same way, if it was available. May be i'm too susceptible to special tianeptine reward. 
The stuff is actually worth trying.


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## zodiac55

Nice thoughts. Yeah, I've read the stories about baclofen... (haha, "kingdom of junkies") probably due to its accompanying drunk-disinhibition effects, I guess... but that kind of outlook towards substances is a recipe for a doomed existence anyway, so I tend to just disregard **** like that. ;P

I do wish there was some way to bring out more of the empathy-like connectedness that I (and FEW others, if I gather correctly) have felt from baclofen, because for me it was such a pure bringing-out of the inner self that is so absent in my day-to-day life, so to speak... but alas.

Phenibut's similarity to baclofen is appealing, but its infamous rapid tolerance issues have still not been cracked (also widely discussed here, I suppose ), nor do they even seem possible to crack, haha. :/ I will note that *memantine* has helped with tolerance to baclofen's sedative effects near-perfectly (though that's not what I was looking for out of baclofen anyway), so maybe this would somehow translate to phenibut...... and yet, I've not read a single report either way on this, and due to the overall distaste I gather from reading about phenibut, don't necessarily wanna be the first to try. ;P

Tianeptine is very, very gentle so far... subtle glow with a dopamine-like element, which I feel is somewhat extraneous (for me). I don't suffer from depression at all, and don't actually like the floatiness I get from dopaminergics (personal scenario), so I feel like it's a step in the wrong direction for me anyway... which is almost good news, as taking 6 of those daily would drain the wallet like none other, hehe.

I do advise, if you feel like tianeptine's DA-like feeling brings about a sort of craving on the downturn (especially with how short tianeptine's half-life is), to mostly steer clear in the long-run, because that IS indeed a sneaky path to addiction, etc. etc.


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## csrpj

broflovski said:


> Hm... that russian junkies thought the same way. There is some risk.
> 
> But you're right basically. Tianeptine gives instant relief via dopaminergic action and long-term cure via neuroplasticity changes.


"long-term cure via neuroplasticity changes" -- can somebody explain this to me? is this saying that tianpetine would change your brain to have a better neurotransmitter setup, or is it saying that your brain permanently adapts to the changes in thinking/behavior as a result of your temporary mood life?


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## broflovski

csrpj said:


> "long-term cure via neuroplasticity changes" -- can somebody explain this to me? is this saying that tianpetine would change your brain to have a better neurotransmitter setup, or is it saying that your brain permanently adapts to the changes in thinking/behavior as a result of your temporary mood life?


Both of this, but novelty is in the latter. Monoamine balance doesn't make the whole picture. You'd better read http://www.tianeptine.com and follow the links there (unfortunately I'm not fluent in English). The basic idea is that stress conditions (such as that causing anxiety) induce kind of neurodegenerative changes (dendritic shrinkage, excessive apoptosis (cell-death), hypertrophia in inappropriate areas etc). "These stress-induced changes tend to lower mood; they can cause clinical depression in the genetically vulnerable".
"Current evidence suggests that tianeptine (as a kind of neuroprotective drug) acts to prevent and even reverse stress-induced neural damage, promoting both neuronal survival and synaptic plasticity".


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## ugh1979

zodiac55 said:


> Background-wise -- in case my reports are at all helpful -- I have no recreational goal with pharms... and very specific criteria for improvements (which, of all things, BACLOFEN has helped with the most to date, with an onset of incredibly practical and real empathogenic inspiration feeling that came from pure abolishment of anxiety. I define anxiety as disconnecting, quantifiable somewhere in the psyche -- whether between [intent] and [expression] or wherever, really).


Interesting. I'm considering trying Baclofen as an alternative to Phenibut (which has great anxiolytic effects for me).

How do you rate Phenibut in comparison with Baclofen?


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## broflovski

In my experience baclofen is more euphoric, causes more "body" sensations (muscle relaxant indeed), more obvious intoxication ("chemical feelings"), may cause more nausea. It has more side effects. It is "harder" version of phenibut, and in contrast to it, baclofen is deprived of any known nootropic properties, and is not indicated as anxiolytic. Tolerance and dependence are developed. Having discovered phenibut i gave up baclofen because its reputation of cheap intoxicant.


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## zodiac55

broflovski said:


> In my experience baclofen is more euphoric, causes more "body" sensations (muscle relaxant indeed), more obvious intoxication ("chemical feelings"), may cause more nausea. It has more side effects. It is "harder" version of phenibut, and in contrast to it, baclofen is deprived of any known nootropic properties, and is not indicated as anxiolytic. Tolerance and dependence are developed. Having discovered phenibut i gave up baclofen because its reputation of cheap intoxicant.


Agreed.. everyone's different enough to where any of those effects can be prominent. ^ Personally, when I take baclofen on its own at regular intervals of every 5-6 hours (without memantine's notable tolerance reversal), any posible negatives seem to go away after a short time. Could be that the positives are going away as well, harr... they're rather subtle since I'm just taking it at therapeutic ranges, so it's hard to tell sometimes. :/

I'm also supplementing it with 5-10g glutamine daily lately (just working with the idea -- nothing too special and CAN possibly be even more sedating, but glutamine is amazing for supporting muscle function among a lot of other things, especially while on an inhibitory substance like baclofen) so maybe that somehow racks up tolerance faster through glutamatergic action or something. I don't know, but I'm hardly an expert on these things, so even paragraphs of my guesswork will not likely be of too much help... ;P

But yeah, overall, my body seems to handle baclofen quite alright, and it's very nice and long-lasting (unlike phenibut?). I'm interested in peoples' experiences *comparing *the two, though... after reading so much about phenibut's crazy tolerance, I'm really curious about what you wrote -- are you saying that in your experience you found baclofen and phenibut's "tolerance" to actually be about the same, broflovski??

(PS - your english is great!)


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## zodiac55

Also, I gave up on tianeptine.. its effect for me wasn't quite what I was looking for (despite there being an appreciable "antidepressant" feeling), and its short efficacy was rather annoying anyway... so too many factors to warrant being sustainable for me. ;P

Definitely a mild, unintrusive mood-lifting substance, though. Especially considering the data on how it, unlike any others, reverses neuronal "shrinkage" in people with bad depression, etc.


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## broflovski

Zodiac55, please understand me correctly. I'm not a great fan of phenibut (tianeptine is obviously better), and my current prejudice against baclofen is more "ideological". Its usage for anxiety is too off-label, it's too widely (ab)used by (stupid) teens here... And on the contrary phenibut is prescribed for irritate children, it's nice and kosher, haha. I'm sensitive to such issues, I stopped taking codeine then noticed that garbage cans in my settlement are full of "Terpinkod" packings (my neighbor alcoholics transfigured into drugstore cowboys). 
What dose of baclofen do you take? My usual was 50-60 mg. (it is near max. therapeutic doses, so does not seem harmful). 
When I told about dependence I meant a kind of psychological craving. I have never used it regularly, and my tolerance, even in episodes of "binge", developed in a special way. 1) I did not escalate dose, because of increasingly intolerable side effects, such as nausea and discoordination 2) on the same dose i felt (with time) the effect, similar 
in "intensity" (quantity) but less "bright" (quality). 
Tolerance to phenibut develops in the same manner, but much more rapidly. But for both them, 1-2 week break returns the tolerance to the baseline (in my case). That's why I buy phenibut when necessary (1-1,5 g. for partying) and then finish the remainder up in a week.


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## broflovski

zodiac55 said:


> Definitely a mild, unintrusive mood-lifting substance, though. Especially considering the data on how it, unlike any others, reverses neuronal "shrinkage" in people with bad depression, etc.


Oh, that's I love it for. It's subtle but noticeable. Pure happy pill for every day, work and walk. But insufficient on its own. (Hm, tianeptine is soooo good, that I can't imagine, how you may prefer baclofen


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## zodiac55

broflovski said:


> Oh, that's I love it for. It's subtle but noticeable. Pure happy pill for every day, work and walk. But insufficient on its own. (Hm, tianeptine is soooo good, that I can't imagine, how you may prefer baclofen


True, true, haha... baclofen has almost no potential mood-lifting action theoretically, especially in comparison to the effects of tianpetine; like I said, it's only the initial effect from baclofen that produces profoundly "correct" feeling of self-reconnectedness that nothing else can touch (for me). Could swear it's some kind of DA/5-HT release in areas (left-hemisphere positive-affect -- I know this for sure) that normally can't be achieved for me, which drops out shortly after and leaves only the inhibition from the GABA action, etc. (and then, obviously, no mood-lift).

:/ bah.

Gotcha about the "ideological" thing, too... sorry to drill with so many questions hehe. Just wanted to get the details right on what you meant by tolerance, and that phenibut was indeed faster-developing in this sense...


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## csrpj

i got my package tonight.
took 37.5 at once, thinking i'd take my dose for the day. i also drank it with alcohol (just a beer or two), which would of course interfere with discerning its effects. i seemed to feel something positive, but hard to tell.
later, 2.5 hours perhaps, out of the usual dangerous mix of desperation and curiosity, i took another 37.5mg. not long after felt a moderate optiate-like buzz. been a few hours since and i feel whatever.
not sure this one is for me, but as i understand it it could take a week or more for me to see how it effects me outside of just an hour or two after theactual consumption (?)
ha - i'm tempted to take another 37.5mg. but i won't... sigh. what else do i got to take? eh, nothing... i will go to bed unhappy and frustrate again - for now anyway.
will report in the upcoming days or weeks on this trial.


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## broflovski

IMO 37,5 mg at once is squandering and obvious application for tolerance, especially when you're just beginning your course. Enjoy low doses first, don't mix with alcohol and it will remain noticeable even at low doses for a long time 
Also the weird thing about tianeptine "moderate optiate-like buzz" is that it always seems a bit insufficient, one always lacks something with it. It tempts you "take some more for full effect". But it will never give you this full effect, at which it hints.


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## csrpj

i'm gonna take the 1x3 12.5 dosing from now on... wait, would you say though taking the 75mg yesterday on the first day really make a negative impact on tolerance, or nothing substantial in the grand scheme of things (i mean it is supposed to be taken for a while)? i'm looking forward to anything effects that are in the background of the insufficient buzz, i hope they will show up.


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## csrpj

actually, speaking of tolerance and tianpetine, after reading this thread http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=517655&page=2, i'm a little upset, since i hate drugs that exhibit this permanent post-discontinuation tolerance (if even it's indeed that case here)...


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## broflovski

I think 3-4 * 12.5 daily is right dosing. And your occasional 75 mg/day is not the matter of concern (I took the same daily doses, that's why I know it is waste). My sensitivity (on the level of background insufficient buzz) even to 1*12,5 tianeptine remained with 1 year moderate using. But I made (forced) breaks for 1-2-3 weeks.


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## ugh1979

zodiac55 said:


> But yeah, overall, my body seems to handle baclofen quite alright, and it's very nice and long-lasting (unlike phenibut?).


Phenibut's effects last at least 12 hours. In fact sometimes I feel it's effects the most about 10 hours after I take it. How much longer lasting do you want?! :b If you are saying you usually take Baclofen every 5-6 hours then it sounds like Baclofen lasts half as long.

Phenibut is great for lucid dreaming as well, just like GHB/GBL, if you take it and go to bed. You still feel it strongly when you wake up as well, which can be useful.


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## zodiac55

ugh1979 said:


> Phenibut's effects last at least 12 hours. In fact sometimes I feel it's effects the most about 10 hours after I take it. How much longer lasting do you want?! :b If you are saying you usually take Baclofen every 5-6 hours then it sounds like Baclofen lasts half as long.
> 
> Phenibut is great for lucid dreaming as well, just like GHB/GBL, if you take it and go to bed. You still feel it strongly when you wake up as well, which can be useful.


Now I'm really tempted. : P
Where's crayzy at, he needs to come here and hate on it a bit more to balance this out.. haha. Also, I also feel baclofen effects much longer, but those intervals are just to maintain a steady dosage, etc.

But no, go on -- what of the phenibut tolerance, then? As far as long-term efficacy.


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## ugh1979

zodiac55 said:


> Now I'm really tempted. : P
> Where's crayzy at, he needs to come here and hate on it a bit more to balance this out.. haha. Also, I also feel baclofen effects much longer, but those intervals are just to maintain a steady dosage, etc.
> 
> But no, go on -- what of the phenibut tolerance, then? As far as long-term efficacy.


I take Phenibut on Saturday and Sunday, every week, and have done for the last 7 months or so, and haven't developed any tolerance at all. I use it for recreational as well as anxiolytic reasons.

It's an excellent supplement/drug for me for the following reasons:

* It's anxiolytic/euphoric effects are the most noticeable of all the meds/supps I take. (Yet subtle enough not to be noticeable by anyone else, which is important as it means it can be used in many social situations, unlike recreational drugs which I wouldn't take unless with friends as they make me noticeably 'wired'.)

* It's euphoric element boosts my creativity, while being subtle enough to ensure I can focus on actually getting down to work. (Unlike many recreational drugs).

* It's long lasting, 12 hours, so you can take it in the morning and feel great all day. No need to redose every 3-6 hours like you need to do with so many other things.

* It's effective long term (for me anyway). As I say, i've been taking it every week for the last 7 months and it's just as effective now as it was the first time I took it. (Always a 2g dose)

* It doesn't stop me doing anything 'normal' like eating or sleeping. (The same can't be said for certain other recreational drugs!)

* It's great for relaxing/chilling out on.

* It's great for sleeping on. Some say there ain't no sleep like a Phenibut sleep.

* I can drink alcohol on it and actually feel good. (Usually alcohols positive effects are very short lived and make me feel awful after a couple of hours. Phenibut means I can be 'normal' and drink alcohol at social events as needed.)

* It's only 70p for a 2g dose. That's great value for money considering the effects!

As you can see, I'm quite the fan of Phenibut!  I don't have any negative points to offer on it, apart from the fact you can't take it every day, otherwise you will run into tolerance/addiction/withdrawal issues. I've only experienced withdrawal once, and that was after taking it for 5 days in a row at a very long party session. I won't ever repeat that again as I felt awful for 4 days after. As I say, once a week for no longer than 2 subsequent days seems to be the sweet spot for me that will give me no tolerance or withdrawal issues.

I can't recommend it enough but I know other peoples mileage varies a lot for some reason.


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## crayzyMed

zodiac55 said:


> Now I'm really tempted. : P
> Where's crayzy at, he needs to come here and hate on it a bit more to balance this out.. haha. Also, I also feel baclofen effects much longer, but those intervals are just to maintain a steady dosage, etc.
> 
> But no, go on -- what of the phenibut tolerance, then? As far as long-term efficacy.


Indeed a will, i have a friend that was addicted to phenibut, tolerance develops extremely fast and dependency will form too, phenibut dependency is COMPLETELY interchangeble with GHB, if your withdrawing from g a high dose of phenibut will stop it, the withdrawals are as worse.

Its fine if used sparingly but a joke if you decide to take it on a daily basis.

On the other hand, GHB is my favorite!


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## planetmed

back to the tianeptine: What do you think, is it possible to take Tianeptine together with an SSRI? Or this is contraindicated? I took Tianeptine in past since it pooped out. Now i am on Lexapro. Want to try Tianeptine again, but not everyday (3-4 days a week)


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## hanzsolo

ugh1979 said:


> I take Phenibut on Saturday and Sunday, every week, and have done for the last 7 months or so, and haven't developed any tolerance at all. I use it for recreational as well as anxiolytic reasons.
> 
> It's an excellent supplement/drug for me for the following reasons:
> 
> * It's anxiolytic/euphoria effects are the most noticeable of all the meds/supps I take. (Yet subtle enough not to be noticeable by anyone else, which is important as it means it can be used in many social situations, unlike recreational drugs which I wouldn't take unless with friends as they make me noticeably 'wired'.)
> 
> * It's euphoric element boosts my creativity, while being subtle enough to ensure I can focus on actually getting down to work. (Unlike many recreational drugs).
> 
> * It's long lasting, 12 hours, so you can take it in the morning and feel great all day. No need to redose every 3-6 hours like you need to do with so many other things.
> 
> * It's effective long term (for me anyway). As I say, i've been taking it every week for the last 7 months and it's just as effective now as it was the first time I took it. (Always a 2g dose)
> 
> * It doesn't stop me doing anything 'normal' like eating or sleeping. (The same can't be said for certain other recreational drugs!)
> 
> * It's great for relaxing/chilling out on.
> 
> * It's great for sleeping on. Some say there ain't no sleep like a Phenibut sleep.
> 
> * I can drink alcohol on it and actually feel good. (Usually alcohols positive effects are very short lived and make me feel awful after a couple of hours. Phenibut means I can be 'normal' and drink alcohol at social events as needed.)
> 
> * It's only 70p for a 2g dose. That's great value for money considering the effects!
> 
> As you can see, I'm quite the fan of Phenibut!  I don't have any negative points to offer on it, apart from the fact you can't take it every day, otherwise you will run into tolerance/addiction/withdrawal issues. I've only experienced withdrawal once, and that was after taking it for 5 days in a row at a very long party session. I won't ever repeat that again as I felt awful for 4 days after. As I say, once a week for no longer than 2 subsequent days seems to be the sweet spot for me that will give me no tolerance or withdrawal issues.
> 
> I can't recommend it enough but I know other peoples mileage varies a lot for some reason.


I just recently got some phenibut 250mg capsules and was thinking of using it on weekends maybe 1 day per week. How many MG do you recommend for a calming effect (and all the benefits you mentioned )??

Thanks


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## ugh1979

hanzsolo said:


> I just recently got some phenibut 250mg capsules and was thinking of using it on weekends maybe 1 day per week. How many MG do you recommend for a calming effect (and all the benefits you mentioned )??
> 
> Thanks


I always take 2000mg but try taking 1000mg and seeing how you get on, then simply adjust dose as required.


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## planetmed

There are some saying on Dr. Bob it is possible taking Tianeptine together with an SSRI
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090709/msgs/906086.html
Maybe i am going to try that out if that make sense and the best case would counterfight sexual side effects of SSRI


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## bben

this stuff is crap


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## zodiac55

bben said:


> this stuff is crap


..and I wouldn't mix it with an SSRI. Asking for trouble.


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## broflovski

Mixing tianeptine with SSRI may diminish the effect of the latter, cause for SSRI serotonin uptake is the only mechanosm of action. But tianeptine's own effects are hardly mediated via serotonin uptake. (But it can actually increase serotonin release long-term and decrease its susceptibility to MAO-A, cause serotonin, under influence of tianeptine, is taken increasingly into vesicular depots, there it is stored, not in glia cells, there it is metabolised). 
Acute mood-lifting on tianeptine is mediated by its dopaminergic action, which is serotonin-independent (and probably mediated by opioid system). Long-term affects are connected to nuroplasticity that seems serotonin-independent as well.
Personally I took some tianeptine (for 5-6 days) when starting fluoxetine - I felt the action of tianeptin, and that seemed not to delay the kick of fluoxetine.


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## broflovski

And I support what *ugh1979 *says about phenibut. 1-2 week breaks help to retain all above mentioned benefits without dose escalation. In mixes with other meds I can take as less as 250 mg phenibut twice a day and still enjoy it. Higher doses may be used occasionally (while clubbing, as I do) recreationally - with low doses alcohol and energy drinks (the way to abstain from illegal substances and still keep clubbing).


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## burner00

To elaborate more on SSRI and SSRE and their risks (serotonin syndrome):

One whose naive on pharmacology would say SSRI increases serotonin while tineptine decreases serotonin. So where's the risk?

Both tianeptine (reuptake enhancer) SSRIs increase neurogenesis, paradoxical considering you might expect oppositional effects.

The evidence tianeptine decreases serotonin release is actually really thin on the ground  [1].

Proves serotonin syndrome is not much of an issue.

Meanwhile tineptine said to have one of the most complex pharmechanism. I have no idea how it increases DA levels.

Till date no one really knows how tineptine _actually_ works.

However it does increase BDNF release in the amygdala [2] which is a far more likely mechanism.

For those non-responders Stablon when taken with foods produces the most pronounced effects. So those who are taking in empty stomachs should have second thoughts here.


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## broflovski

burner00 said:


> The evidence tianeptine decreases serotonin release is actually really thin on the ground  [1].


I saw an article (in Russian), in which they tried to explain effectiveness of tianeptine from conventional "low serotonin = depression" point of view. They stated (and there were prove references) that tianeptine actually _increase_ both serotonin release and reuptake, thus quicken serotonin turnover. Acute decrease of serotonin levels due uptake enhance is compensated by increase in synthesis and release (autoreceptors may be involved). Tianeptine is also known to prevent serotonin from destruction with MAO-A (don't know how exactly) and increases the density of serotonin innervation. Overall effect may be more pro-serotonin than anti-serotonin.


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## burner00

Obviously im not discarding tineptine does not have serotonergic activty.

The point i was addressing is that the combination of SSRE + SSRI is not fatal/threatning theoretically speaking.

Although if i were to choose an option i would remove SSRI and take tineptine alone. My preferred choice.


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## zodiac55

Exactly.. not fatal, but probably greatly diminished effect.
Try 5-htp with tianeptine. ;P
*shrug*


----------



## broflovski

burner00 said:


> Although if i were to choose an option i would remove SSRI and take tineptine alone. My preferred choice.


I"d do the same, but there's no opportunity :um


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## ugh1979

I use Stablon once a week as part of a rotating regmine, but effects from it are usually pretty subtle, and I sometimes wonder if it's worth keeping taking it.

After my 30mg dose yesterday morning I didn't feel that much as per usual, but did feel better later in the day. However this morning I feel amazing and my usual Thursday morning 1g Picamilon seems to have been potentiated by the previous days 30mg Stablon.

Is this possible? I was of the understanding Stablon has quite a short half life.


----------



## zodiac55

> Is this possible? I was of the understanding Stablon has quite a short half life.


That would be correct. ;P but...
What makes ya so sure it's the Stablon vs. just having a great day? Hehe.


----------



## ugh1979

zodiac55 said:


> That would be correct. ;P but...
> What makes ya so sure it's the Stablon vs. just having a great day? Hehe.


I keep a daily record of all the medications/supplements/drugs that I take along with a relative SA/mood score, and it appears there is a pattern emerging of Stablon working better for me many many hours after I take it, along with some possible effects the next day. But I do still wonder if it's actually the Stablon that is causing that, due to the fact that it is only supposed to last a few hours.

Also, I can recognise a chemically induced high opposed to a natural one, and on this occasion the Stablon one day and Picamilon the next, made the Picamilon feel more like Phenibut.


----------



## canary

*Starting on Tianeptine.*

I have ordered Tianeptine(Stablon) and it should arrive in 10-20 days. I have high hopes for this drug in terms of anxiety + depression. I will try to remember to keep you all updated as to my progress....

Phenibut is of course another option for anxiety, but probably only once a week.


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## hanzsolo

Please keep us posted on your progress, am very interested in it myself as well. Tks


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## sciencebrainswell

*Hello*

This is my first time to this site. I was wondering if anyone has experience taking Stablon along with Deprenyl? At the moment, I don't take either, but I'm looking to solve some depression, anhedonia and social anxiety. I just cannot seem to find a clear answer about mixing SSRE's and MAOI-B. Thanks in advance.


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## broflovski

Stablon shouldn't be considered as 'SSRE' par excellence. It is very complicated drug. Sort of relevant to your case is that it acts as indirect MAO-A inhibitor


> Interestingly, rats on tianeptine show reduced susceptibility to serotonin breakdown by central monoamine oxidase type A, but not by MAO type B. Such MAO-A inhibition may conceivably contribute to tianeptine's mood-brightening effect.


Furthermore it is obviously dopaminergic (thus the prominent acute relief it gives), increasing dopamine levels in nucleus accumbens and prefrontal cortex. In theory this particular action may be a matter of concern in conjunction with l-deprenyl.


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## swim

I have been one month into Stablon, after quitting citalopram (low dose). The very first pill made me feel like in heaven,nirvana like sensation,and that was for two weeks. I kept on taking Stablon 3 times a day, 12,5mg pills. Absolutely no side effects. Experienced prolongued orgasm and recalled reading something similar about amineptine.
After the second week of use the quietness and comfy feeling faded and depression and anxiety came back.
The 4th week I was feeling miserable and I decided to quit Stablon when one evening my right hand started to tremble like never before.
Anyway,no withdrawal symptons showed.


----------



## canary

*Tianeptine*



swim said:


> I have been one month into Stablon, after quitting citalopram (low dose). The very first pill made me feel like in heaven,nirvana like sensation,and that was for two weeks. I kept on taking Stablon 3 times a day, 12,5mg pills. Absolutely no side effects. Experienced prolongued orgasm and recalled reading something similar about amineptine.
> After the second week of use the quietness and comfy feeling faded and depression and anxiety came back.
> The 4th week I was feeling miserable and I decided to quit Stablon when one evening my right hand started to tremble like never before.
> Anyway,no withdrawal symptons showed.


Apparently Tianeptine is supposed to have a short term effect on dopamine (what you described), as well as a longer term HPA axis/ neuroplasticity effect by preventing and reversing stress induced changes to the brain. This is just me parroting stuff i've read. My Tianeptine hasn't arrived yet (taking AGES), but I will let everyone know how I go.

My initial thoughts are that you should stick it out for a few months, and not expect the initial feeling to last.


----------



## swim

canary said:


> Apparently Tianeptine is supposed to have a short term effect on dopamine (what you described), as well as a longer term HPA axis/ neuroplasticity effect by preventing and reversing stress induced changes to the brain. This is just me parroting stuff i've read. My Tianeptine hasn't arrived yet (taking AGES), but I will let everyone know how I go.
> 
> My initial thoughts are that you should stick it out for a few months, and not expect the initial feeling to last.


Dunno. I could have doubled the dose since tianeptine is very mild on the body but I just felt like I needed the serotonin let flown in the brain, and not the opposite. So I quit it cold turkey and for a week I have been into...nothing (except tranquillizers) which is very rare in my life, I felt slightly better than last days on tianeptine, then I tried 5htp+melatonin 300mg one pill at night which made me sleep more than melatonin alone (but no mood improvement),and then I came back to paroxetine.


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## James10

Hi, I have a question for those experienced with tianeptine. I currently have a regimen to control my anxiety which consists of taking one day Pregabalin and one day Tramadol. I used to take Clonazepam which was effective but made me extremely drowzy. That being said, the current regimen is very effective but it is not what it used to be due to tolerance build-up. After reading up on tianeptine it seems like an excellent drug to add to my regimen. I ordered a batch which is currently on the way. My question is, would it be better to take it every day at the recommended 12.5mg, 3X a day? Or would it be better to take it only every other day or every couple of days in order to avoid tolerance? On the one side I have heard that just as SSRIs it is most effective after taking it daily for a week or two. On the other side I have heard that taking it every day leads to tolerance build-up and the drug becomes ineffective. Thank you.


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## broflovski

^^ Depends on what you want as an effect. Tolerance to the acute dopaminergic stimulant effect develops quickly - sometimes along the day, when the first dose is pure bliss, and further are hardly noticeable. But I tend to believe that long-term action of tianeptine (based on neuroplasticity changes that take time to manifest) develops during the consistent and rather prolonged course of regular usage. 
At the same time, if you want just short-term relief, PRN usage is ok (in strong contrast to SSRI, that are useless PRN).


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## burner00

Spacing the dose is very important in Stablon. Tolerance is non-existent (in therapeutic dose only). You can take it for 5-10 years 3 times a day and you wont have any withdrawal symptoms. PRN use seems stupid Stablon effects are quite subtle (i.e in therapeutic dose). Granted it has a clean dopaminergic effects due to serotonin reduction which adds dopamine transmission. Which is the primary reason why i take it.

Stablon is very non-toxic compared to most drugs. This drug does not interact with P-450 or any liver enzymes. It metabolizes the same way fatty acids in food do beta-oxidation. One woman was on 150 tablets per day and suffered no toxic effects. 

Remember Stablon has a very short half life. Only drawback of Stablon. But who cares its not hard to pop sugar coated tablets 3 times a day.


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## Arisa1536

Medline said:


> But Yohimbine isn't a very potent AD or anxiolytic. Tianeptine has also no withdrawal or sexual side effects AFAIK. Pindolol as augmentation for SSRIs sounds interesting too because of this autoreceptor story. At least it should speed things up.


YES thank you
We found out the hard way that yohimbe is not the wonder supplement its made out to be. It does nothing for Anxiety except increase it, your heart rate and blood pressure rises, and you have terrific insomnia, headache and are scorching hot, its impossible to focus on the task at hand that yohimbe is designed for when u are feeling horrible, sweaty and like you are going to pass out.

Anyway Tianeptine sounds brilliant, i have read a bit about it and i agree with what medline mentioned about its lack of sexual or withdrawal side effects, it seems to be in demand because of these positive qualities but as per usual decent medications like these are NOT available in a lot of western countries such as Australia and New Zealand but has been approved in Russia and eastern european countries under the name _Coaxil_ as well as Vietnam, india and thailand under the name _Stablon_ and in china its known as 
Tatinol

Any chance of it ever being made available in U.K/US/CAN and N.Z?


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## broflovski

^^ It's Schedule III drug now in Russia, vanished from the market. There was an epidemic abuse with severe consequences. It's appeared to be a quasi-opioid. 
But I liked it anyway.


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## Arisa1536

broflovski said:


> ^^ It's Schedule III drug now in Russia, vanished from the market. There was an epidemic abuse with severe consequences. It's appeared to be a quasi-opioid.
> But I liked it anyway.


So its gone? poof just like that?:|


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## broflovski

One needs very special prescription on pink blank (!) to obtain it now. Almost impossible to get such. And wholesalers do not want anything to do with tianeptine after that actual ban.


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## swim

broflovski said:


> ^^ It's Schedule III drug now in Russia, vanished from the market. There was an epidemic abuse with severe consequences. It's appeared to be a quasi-opioid.
> But I liked it anyway.


that's because of people in Moscow crushing the pills and then injecting intravenous. rough crushing led to severe circulatory problems and necrosis of the fingers.


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## broflovski

swim said:


> that's because of people in Moscow crushing the pills and then injecting intravenous. rough crushing led to severe circulatory problems and necrosis of the fingers.


^^ of course I know about it (and that was not only in Moscow, but mostly in the province). The thing is that for susceptible ppl like me, oral and low tianeptine doses may be in some way addictive as well, but without such severe consequences. I did had cravings for tianeptine, though never abused it intravenously, and rarely significantly exceeded oral doses.
And I wish I had access to tianeptine now


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## jenarch

I would like to try Stablon but I live in the U.S. where it is not available. Is there a way I can get it from another country legally? Without prescription?


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## JCW2001

Hi there, I've been having the most unpleasant withdrawal effects (discontinuation syndrome) from taking Stablon, and I really felt the need to post about it somewhere.

Here's a diary of what's happened so far (this has all happened over the PAST WEEK!). I started taking Stablon for my depression and mild anxiety.

First three days:
Tapered up from 1 tablet to 3 a day - Felt good. Felt a definite improvement to my mood and outlook. Also a reduction in the anxiety I had been feeling. I felt more talkative and mentally aware, and also occasionally felt a nice little "buzz".

Day four:
Woke up in the middle of the night feeling as though something was wrong. I felt panicked. (A little side detail: I remember I had very lots of colourful shapes behind my eyes when I first woke up (with my eyes closed) but they disappeared.)

I woke up fully and the panic was extreme (although it wasn't a full blown panic attack) and was accompanied with very negative thoughts. The whole experience became unbelievably overwhelming. I was still very tired, and so tried to sleep through it, but every time I drifted into "alpha" sleep (when you start day dreaming before you sleep) I got a jolt of anxiety that would wake me up. It was horrible.

The mixture of anxiety and negative thoughts kept me awake, and I didn't know how much longer I could put up with them. I know that if I had to feel like that every day, I would have happily chosen death as an alternative. It was extremely horrible. Worse than anything I'd ever experienced. Like depression and anxiety x 100.

Day five:
That morning I eventually had to go to work, without having sleep. I was still panicked in work, but it became less so. And I didn't feel quite as negative.

Spoke to my friend (who had had success on Stablon) and they convinced me that the experience was probably a "bump in the road" due to taking something new. As such things would probably improve as the medication "levelled out" in my system.

I held off taking any more Stablon until about 11am, but when my nerves from weren't completely subsiding I decided to take one. I immediately began to feel better. So I took another one in the evening, hoping my friend had been right.

That night I slept for 8 hours and felt OK.

Day six:
I decided to only take two tablets a day from now on, and I felt ok for most of the day, but by the evening my sense of anxiety had started to grow again. The nerves made me worried that I was going to have a repeat of the horrible experience.

I tried to keep myself calm by meditating and I eventually fell asleep. But sure enough, after about 2 hours sleep, I woke up and felt panicked and negative again.

It was just as overwhelming as before, and again I didn't know how much longer I could put up with such a feeling. I felt FAR too sensitive, mixed with negativity and anxiety. It was just as horrible as I'd remembered from the previous night.

And again, I remember feeling, at times, that death would have been better than overwhelming negative thoughts coupled with crippling anxiety. It was HORRIBLE. (Although I didn't have any plans for how I might end my life -- it was just a logical reasoning: It this feeling wasn't going to go away, I could never live with it. Luckily I felt that it would eventually go away.)

Day seven: Had to go into work again, but this time the nerves didn't subside as much during the day. I couldn't eat properly because my stomach was churning too much. I made a decision to come off Stablon for good. Nothing was worse feeling as bad as I had done the previous night, and I honestly didn't know if I could withstand another similar experience.

With the nerves not subsiding, and with the idea that stopping abruptly could be bad, I took one final tablet in the late morning. Hoping it would at least give me the mental lift that I could ride out.

Unfortunately it didn't help much, my nerves still persisted, and so I decided not to push my luck -- no more Stablon.

That evening the nerves in my stomach were still there and I couldn't sleep. (I got about 3 - 4 hours, off and on.)

Yesterday:
My nerves continued throughout the day. They got so bad, and coupled with the few hours sleep I'd had over the past two days, I asked if I could leave work early.

I managed to get a short-notice appointment with my doctor that afternoon. I tried to explain my severe anxiety and how it was stopping me from sleeping and eating properly... I didn't mention my experiment with Stablon for fear of reprisal. (I doubt he would have heard of the medication, and would probably have just told me something along the lines of, "Well it's your fault for trying to self-medicate" -- possibly not entirely untrue).

His only solution was an SSRI -- something I REALLY don't want to take having been on them so many times in the past, I just didn't want to have to go down that route. He began to get a little frustrated with me for resisting an SSRI ("it will help" he insisted -- even though he said the effects wouldn't be felt for three weeks(!)). I eventually agreed that I would try Zoloft, something I had previously had success with, and he gave me a prescription.

I haven't taken the Zoloft, and I don't plan to until I at least feel like these side-effects have subsided more. I really don't want to risk tripping anything else in my brain right now.

I went to my pharmacist and he was more sympathetic to my feelings of anxiety, telling me to try vitamin B supplements, Omega 3-6-9, getting more exercise, drinking plenty of water, good pro-biotics, etc.

I also picked up some Valerian root. I haven't tried any of these yet, though.

Last night my stomach nerves were still there, and I had difficulty falling asleep -- although mercifully I eventually did.

Today:
My stomach nerves and mental sensitivity are still here, but I think they may finally be starting to subside. (Although I'm beginning to wonder exactly when they will go -- I'm SO sick of feeling like this.)

I'm even afraid of taking the B vitamins or Valerian root, just in case it makes me feel worse... I'm so afraid of feeling as bad as I did on those two nights.

Anyways, I'm sorry for this very long post! I just wanted to share my experiences, and maybe hear if anyone else has had anything similar? I would love to know what's causing all this, and what the best route to helping my anxiety subside might be.

Thanks for any advice. I wish I knew what I could do to definitely help.

- Johnny

PS - It's such a shame: When Stablon made me feel good, it was amazing. It was so much better than any SSRI I've ever had -- if only it hadn't unlocked these weird side-effects in me


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## JCW2001

I took a vitamin supplement today that included B6 and B12 and I started to feel better 40 mins after drinking it. Thank goodness. I guess the Pharmacist was on to something.


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## broflovski

Oh, interesting though sad experience. I also noticed some kind of 'crash' with tianeptine, due to its extremely short half-life, but not nearly as severe. I felt nervous after the pleasurable acute effect of the drug (increasingly subtle) waned, and re-dosing didn't always help. But I successfully corrected it with valerian before sleep and low-dose phenibut during the day (which has much longer duration then tianeptine). And I made breaks to prevent tolerance and to re-sensitize my system to tianeptine. Adding vitamins may be of some help too.


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## JCW2001

Still feeling better today. I'm taking the vitamin supplement, I went to the gym yesterday, and I started taking Omega 3-6-9 today. The anxiety is subsiding. It's not completely gone, but definitely become more manageable (I can eat now, and I managed to sleep most of the night last night, too -- a huge step forwards).

Fingers crossed it will continue this way -- although I know I can't be nervous about there being more bumps in the road, as that will only make me anxious again. If they happen, they happen, but things are improving. *phew*


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## nito

What's the legal status in the uk regarding this drug, can i have a gp prescribe it? If not , could anyone please refer me to an online site that's credible please? I really need to get my mild depression and anxiety in order before school starts in 2 weeks, yikes!


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## swim

nito said:


> What's the legal status in the uk regarding this drug, can i have a gp prescribe it? If not , could anyone please refer me to an online site that's credible please? I really need to get my mild depression and anxiety in order before school starts in 2 weeks, yikes!


Check aurapharm.com it's a british online pharmacy and they sell stablon at the lowest price on the net


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## nito

merci. I hear that Stablon is different to SSRI. Is it true it doesent produce withrawal symptoms and side effects? I think i read somewhere the withdrawal symptoms and side effecta are just like SSRI.


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## swim

nito said:


> merci. I hear that Stablon is different to SSRI. Is it true it doesent produce withrawal symptoms and side effects? I think *i read somewhere the withdrawal symptoms and side effecta are just like SSRI.*


No, Stablon doesn't give side effects and bad withdrawal symptoms at all. When you start it you could experience what is commonly known as "honeymoon" period, but unfortunately it subsides in a few weeks.


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## ntdc

swim,

so this medication didnt work for you?


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## swim

ntdc said:


> swim,
> 
> so this medication didnt work for you?


after the initial honeymoon period I found that my anxiety was growing and mood lowering, so after one month of intake I dropped it.


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## nito

swim said:


> No, Stablon doesn't give side effects and bad withdrawal symptoms at all. When you start it you could experience what is commonly known as "honeymoon" period, but unfortunately it subsides in a few weeks.


Great. Ordered it, should be with me shortly. I hope it doesen't poop out on me too early, i need it for 8 months of university studies. If it does i have no choice but to go the SSRI route.


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## nito

swim said:


> after the initial honeymoon period I found that my anxiety was growing and mood lowering, so after one month of intake I dropped it.


I just got hold of some stablon from aurapharm. It came in a brown envolope with 4 blister sealed packs and a main packet. Funnily eneough the packer was open and the blister part was next to it (assuming customs maybe opened it). The pills white oval shaped once however i got no leaflet with it detailing information. Anything to worry about or it's a go ahead?


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## swim

nito said:


> I just got hold of some stablon from aurapharm. It came in a brown envolope with 4 blister sealed packs and a main packet. Funnily eneough the packer was open and the blister part was next to it (assuming customs maybe opened it). The pills white oval shaped once however i got no leaflet with it detailing information. Anything to worry about or it's a go ahead?


same envelope for me, go ahead it's safe


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## nito

Ok so i took one on an empty stomach. Felt less anxious but could not tell with mood(got a cold , that could explain why) 
Couple of hours later i took another one with food. Since i have a cold i felt quite tired and lazy so i went to bed quite early. As i was about to enter the state of sleep, you know the moment just before it, i looked on my wall in the dark. There i saw a fox that had one eye shining in the dark, as soon as i saw this i felt unable to move for 5 seconds. Again looked at the wall, saw something that looked like stars, again i felt paralyzed for 5 seconds. This freaked me out so i slept on the side not facing the wall, and turned the light on. What the hell was that?! : /


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## swim

fever hallucinations maybe


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## nito

swim said:


> fever hallucinations maybe


You know how soft these pills are, i can literally bite very softly and it will break, plus it has got sweet taste like sugar on my tounge. Please tell me your's were like that?


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## swim

nito said:


> You know how soft these pills are, i can literally bite very softly and it will break, plus it has got sweet taste like sugar on my tounge. Please tell me your's were like that?


yes they were but don't bite em, just swallow em whole. I see how you feel nice on Stablon


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## DK3

*interesting drug*

I've had good results with Stablon, but I was only able to test it for a week or two as I had a very limited supply of it. It seems to work instantly and is a very effective antidepressant/mood lifter.. I experienced a tranquil state of mind and empathy towards others. I was taking it in combo though with a few other things but I'm sure it was the Stablon that provided the main effects.

The only problem is, it it has a very short half-life and you need to keep popping them regularly so it's perhaps not very economical if you're buying without prescription. Another thing I noticed, they do tend to react quite strongly with other serotonin raising agents such as 5-HTP which is what I took it with..it caused me an unpleasant headache and what I think was the early signs of serotonin syndrome so I would advise caution when taking Stablon with other SSRI drugs or natural substances that can raised serotonin. The headache incident I mentioned even happened 24hrs after my last 5-HTP dose, so be careful, I'm sure it would of been much worse if I had taken them together.


----------



## DK3

burner00 said:


> Since i cant seem to find an official thread on Stablon i would post this awesome report on its pharmacology over here.
> 
> Surprise Surprise Stablon is actually a benzo. The french fooled us bigtime.
> 
> Source: Brainmeta


stablon is most definitely not a benzo class drug. I have no idea where you got that information from but its incorrect.


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## burner00

DK3 said:


> stablon is most definitely not a benzo class drug. I have no idea where you got that information from but its incorrect.


Sorry if i hit a few nerve. Molecularly it is very similar to a benzo yet very different. The article you read is a possible indication of its addicting properties. Although i have not faced any to this date.


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## nito

DK3 said:


> I've had good results with Stablon, but I was only able to test it for a week or two as I had a very limited supply of it. It seems to work instantly and is a very effective antidepressant/mood lifter.. I experienced a tranquil state of mind and empathy towards others. I was taking it in combo though with a few other things but I'm sure it was the Stablon that provided the main effects.
> 
> The only problem is, it it has a very short half-life and you need to keep popping them regularly so it's perhaps not very economical if you're buying without prescription. Another thing I noticed, they do tend to react quite strongly with other serotonin raising agents such as 5-HTP which is what I took it with..it caused me an unpleasant headache and what I think was the early signs of serotonin syndrome so I would advise caution when taking Stablon with other SSRI drugs or natural substances that can raised serotonin. The headache incident I mentioned even happened 24hrs after my last 5-HTP dose, so be careful, I'm sure it would of been much worse if I had taken them together.


i took it with a perika which is an anti depressant (St johns wort) and also had headaches, felt sweaty and nauseousness. So you got to be careful yupp. I have run out and can't wait untill i get more, the only downpart is that it comes with regular mail, as you can't choose a different option adn that takes like 10 days :blank
Also i have noticed tolerance. Before i could take one pill and all my general random stomach butterflies would disappear, now i require more.


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## bben

this stuff felt pro psychotic to me, def is over rated. Did not like.

Rating is 3 starts out of ten.


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## DK3

Medline said:


> I'm not sure it's available in the US, but I read alot about it yesterday. It is a serotonin reuptake enhancer and seems to be as effective as SSRIs, especially for depressed persons with anxiety. If it's not available in the US, then to all the good therapy-resistant users in other countries: You may give Stablon a try.


I've begun a trial of Stablon (started on Saturday) and it's working very well. I will write a full report of my experience shortly for those interested.

At this stage I can say it's a very novel anti-depressant, it works virtually instantly unlike traditional SSRI's and makes me feel very good and emotionally stable. I haven't been able to see how it effects or helps my SA yet but will do over the next few days.


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## DK3

nito said:


> i took it with a perika which is an anti depressant (St johns wort) and also had headaches, felt sweaty and nauseousness. So you got to be careful yupp. I have run out and can't wait untill i get more, the only downpart is that it comes with regular mail, as you can't choose a different option adn that takes like 10 days :blank
> Also i have noticed tolerance. Before i could take one pill and all my general random stomach butterflies would disappear, now i require more.


Taking Stablon with St Johns Wort is a very bad idea due to interaction. SJW has an MAOI-type action on the brain (much like older anti-depressant drugs work) and also increases serotonin. It's always a bad idea to mix anti-depressants or anything that raises the level of serotonin in brain (i.e. 5-HTP) because it cause "serotonin syndrome" or serotonin crisis as it's probably better called.. it can be extremely dangerous resulting in high blood pressure and seizure/coma. The early warning sign is usually a headache or rapid heart beat. Even "natural" over the counter things can cause serotonin crisis if taken with an anti-depressant med. It can be just as nasty as mixing two meds, as I know from my own experience.

Doctors recommend if you're going to try different things that work on raising serotonin, always have a proper "wash out" and try them separately, never together. By wash out, I mean taper off whatever you're taking slowly and allow a period of 2-3 weeks without taking it before you start taking the new med/substance. That will eliminate the risk of any interaction or serotonin crisis. You'll also be able to see which substance is working effectively easier when taken separately.

EDIT: Apologies to *nito* if this post comes across as condescending/preachy, I wasn't following the thread and didn't realise you were already well aware of interactions and serotonin crisis potential of Stablon. Sorry!


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## broflovski

Stablon is great, mostly due its acute dopaminergic effect (and putative opioid action). Don't think it is very dangerous with hypericum, because it acutely _decreases _serotonin, enhancing its reuptake, and it is shown to cancel fluoxetine action (and is likely to diminish st. john's wort action on serotonin). Don't think it is a potent MAOI, though combining stablon with MAOI is not recommended indeed (not because of probable serotonin syndrome, but for some other unknown reason).


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## DK3

broflovski said:


> Stablon is great, mostly due its acute dopaminergic effect (and putative opioid action). Don't think it is very dangerous with hypericum, because it acutely _decreases _serotonin, enhancing its reuptake, and it is shown to cancel fluoxetine action (and is likely to diminish st. john's wort action on serotonin). Don't think it is a potent MAOI, though combining stablon with MAOI is not recommended indeed (not because of probable serotonin syndrome, but for some other unknown reason).


Ah, noted broflovski 

I'm feeling some good effects from Stablon now even only on my 3rd day. I've reduced my dose to 12.5mg been taking 25mg the last 2 days and it proved a bit too much "stimulating" and slightly euphoric. It has totally fixed my low mood and motivation is way up, very very effective anti-depressant IMO.


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## zodiac55

Good discussions...

Any further experiences regarding tianeptine *tolerance* (of any sort, just describe how it behaved) setting in would seem productive at this point... it still seems a bit inconclusive with these slightly differing reports, so it's tough to rule out odd cases/responses.


----------



## DK3

zodiac55 said:


> Good discussions...
> 
> Any further experiences regarding tianeptine *tolerance* (of any sort, just describe how it behaved) setting in would seem productive at this point... it still seems a bit inconclusive with these slightly differing reports, so it's tough to rule out odd cases/responses.


yeah the only major draw back of Stablon is the very short half-life (2.5hrs) meaning you need to take it several times a day. If you got it on prescription and don't have to pay no problem, but it can get quite expensive if you're buying it privately.


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## PetePain

I'm now into my 3rd week of taking Stablon, 3x 12.5mg per day. 

I find its action to be rather mild yet remarkable as it reduces my anxiety without inhibiting me, i.e. making me tired and dull - in stark contrast to all the other stuff (SSRI, Tricyclics etc. ) that I've tried.

I can think clearer as I feel less stressed. I've never experienced any strong euphoria from Stablon but there is some form of light bliss for a short moment after intake...extremely subtle and not worth spending around 80 USD for a month's supply if that`s what you're looking for.

When you read the abstracts and papers on Stablon in the scientific journals, you'd think that Stablon is a wonder drug.

It isn't, of course. A pure pharmacological treatment may work for little rat and mice brains but it's not sufficient for the complex human brain imho...still, I'd say that it's the best medication I've tried thus far especially since I haven't experienced any negative side effects - none.


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## nito

bben said:


> this stuff felt pro psychotic to me, def is over rated. Did not like.
> 
> Rating is 3 starts out of ten.


Hey bben what do you mean by pro psychotic?


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## The Professor

I love this thread. I'm very close to ordering it now that I narrowed down a pharmacy (even though my common sense/business sense tells me that these "pharmacies" get old expired meds from real pharmacies, at best...) But this doesn't even bother me much. 

Only thing is the withdrawal. I've heard people complain of terrible schizophrenia-like symptoms upon discontinuation of tianeptine, as well as complete inability to concentrate, which is the one thing I don't want to mess with! I already have so many issues with concentration.


----------



## nito

The Professor said:


> I love this thread. I'm very close to ordering it now that I narrowed down a pharmacy (even though my common sense/business sense tells me that these "pharmacies" get old expired meds from real pharmacies, at best...) But this doesn't even bother me much.
> 
> Only thing is the withdrawal. I've heard people complain of terrible schizophrenia-like symptoms upon discontinuation of tianeptine, as well as complete inability to concentrate, which is the one thing I don't want to mess with! I already have so many issues with concentration.


Lol i have no clue how these people's system work. But withdrawal from tianeptine for me, NADA! I don't even notice that i have stopped taking them apart from slight anxiety coming back which stablon was holding at bay.


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## behappy100

*stablon and lexapro*

my doctor recommended switching from stablon to lexapro (5mg) w/o tapering the stablon-----

this concerned me--- so i'd like to taper the stablon and add the lexapro---- anyone have any thoughts on this?

or even maintaining the stablon with a low lexapro dose?


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## maninthebox

I tried stablon for a week and liked it. Didn't continue b/c you can;t get it here regularly and decided was a bit pricey. Felt very similar to Tramadol, but doesn't make you as dumb/forgetful. I've tried prozac/celexa/effexor/cymabalta and I hated all of those.


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## DK3

maninthebox said:


> I tried stablon for a week and liked it. Didn't continue b/c you can;t get it here regularly and decided was a bit pricey. Felt very similar to Tramadol, but doesn't make you as dumb/forgetful. I've tried prozac/celexa/effexor/cymabalta and I hated all of those.


I had same experience and reached same conclusions as you. It's a wonderful drug and great anti-depressant/mood stabliser with some SA potential, but the cost and question mark over future availability with so few online vendors, makes it for me not suitable as a treatment option sadly.

I found to get the best results, I needed to be taking about 6 pills a day, just to begin with. I can't imagine what the cost would be if I had to increase the dose higher. It's a shame the drug has such an unusual short half-life and they didn't make a longer acting version.

The other thing to consider too with Stablon is... although it has this very cool stimulation effect as soon as you start taking it..which is a bit like tramadol and (even like very mild MDMA I think), this effect is said to be only temporary and wears off once the drug begins to work properly around the 3-4 week mark. I never took it long enough to find out if that was the case, or what the "proper" effect would feel like..

With it's instant action and very low side effect profile and ability to be taken with other substances with low interaction risk, it's surprising Stablon hasn't emerged as a front-line anti-depressant. In the UK and US its not even licensed as a drug. I'm wondering whether this is due to commercial interests or the health service of UK not liking the short life-half and potential high cost.


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## The Professor

DK3 said:


> I had same experience and reached same conclusions as you. It's a wonderful drug and great anti-depressant/mood stabliser with some SA potential, but the cost and question mark over future availability with so few online vendors, makes it for me not suitable as a treatment option sadly.
> 
> I found to get the best results, I needed to be taking about 6 pills a day, just to begin with. I can't imagine what the cost would be if I had to increase the dose higher. It's a shame the drug has such an unusual short half-life and they didn't make a longer acting version.
> 
> The other thing to consider too with Stablon is... although it has this very cool stimulation effect as soon as you start taking it..which is a bit like tramadol and (even like very mild MDMA I think), this effect is said to be only temporary and wears off once the drug begins to work properly around the 3-4 week mark. I never took it long enough to find out if that was the case, or what the "proper" effect would feel like..
> 
> With it's instant action and very low side effect profile and ability to be taken with other substances with low interaction risk, it's surprising Stablon has emerged as a front-line anti-depressant. In the UK and US its not even licensed as a drug. I'm wondering whether this is due to commercial interests or the health service of UK not liking the short life-half and potential high cost.


patents... they did not get the proper patent for it (as an AD), so if they introduce it in the US, generics can be made right away and Servier would not even break even with it's Stablon.


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## norad

Isn't it totally risky to try something which could either lose it's effect after a while or have bad side effects when you discontinue using it?
I think this is really scary. What if the drug loses it's effect right at a time when you totally need it? :afr
This would mean that if you're afraid of a certain event which is months out that you mustn't even start taking AD too far in advance because of the risk of it losing its effect. But at the same time you also need time to experiment to even find a drug which works.


----------



## The Professor

norad said:


> Isn't it totally risky to try something which could either lose it's effect after a while or have bad side effects when you discontinue using it?
> I think this is really scary. What if the drug loses it's effect right at a time when you totally need it? :afr
> This would mean that if you're afraid of a certain event which is months out that you mustn't even start taking AD too far in advance because of the risk of it losing its effect. But at the same time you also need time to experiment to even find a drug which works.


No, it sounds like you are talking about the initial "buzz" it gives you when first starting, but the long term benefits of the drug are what are important.


----------



## norad

But I read many times that people took ADs which worked for a while and then stopped working. Imagine you're on something which works and then right during a time where you needed it to work it suddenly stops working what do you do then?


----------



## The Professor

norad said:


> But I read many times that people took ADs which worked for a while and then stopped working. Imagine you're on something which works and then right during a time where you needed it to work it suddenly stops working what do you do then?


haha you sound a little paranoid... it's not like it's just going to go from working 100% to 0% in the blink of an eye. It's a long process so you will be aware and be able to take action in time.


----------



## Broshious2

Here's a patent for a new XR Tianeptine:

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100112051

So perhaps it may one day become available here in the US.


----------



## norad

The Professor said:


> haha you sound a little paranoid... it's not like it's just going to go from working 100% to 0% in the blink of an eye. It's a long process so you will be aware and be able to take action in time.


I only read that ADs pop out. I don't know how fast this happens. But imagine you go on an AD because you're afraid of exams and then a few weeks or days before the event it suddenly pops out and you cannot simply start with something new in this short time? This is scary.


----------



## The Professor

Broshious2 said:


> Here's a patent for a new XR Tianeptine:
> 
> http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100112051
> 
> So perhaps it may one day become available here in the US.


Awesome. I think in order to reap the true benefits of tianeptine you would need an XR version, so your brain can actually undergo some changes. As opposed to being on it 12 hrs a day and off it 12 hrs a day.



norad said:


> I only read that ADs pop out. I don't know how fast this happens. But imagine you go on an AD because you're afraid of exams and then a few weeks or days before the event it suddenly pops out and you cannot simply start with something new in this short time? This is scary.


I don't know how bad your situation is, but I still think you're over thinking it. The worst that can happen is that you go back to how you were before starting the AD, right? But to not try a medication because you are worried about it becoming ineffective is crazy, that's what I think.


----------



## norad

The Professor said:


> The worst that can happen is that you go back to how you were before starting the AD, right?


But what if this must not happen? In my current state I would be absolutely unable to take important exams which everything depends on this is exactly why I need something which somehow helps me against the fears of the exams and also against the feeling of everything being senseless and hopeless because of my other circumstances. If it was up to me I'd just give up and stop studying because everything is hopeless but I cannot. I have to go on and keep struggling even though it's all pointless.


----------



## Huk phin

norad said:


> But what if this must not happen? In my current state I would be absolutely unable to take important exams which everything depends on this is exactly why I need something which somehow helps me against the fears of the exams and also against the feeling of everything being senseless and hopeless because of my other circumstances. If it was up to me I'd just give up and stop studying because everything is hopeless but I cannot. I have to go on and keep struggling even though it's all pointless.


AD's do not work like that. If you were to start most AD's right now it takes up to 4 weeks for them to take full if effect. IF they work for you you can be reasonably confident that they will not "poop out" anytime real soon. There is a new AD called Viibryd that is a combo SSRI and a 5HT1A receptor partial agonist (think SSRI + Buspar). It works by increasing the amount of serotonin, a natural substance in the brain that helps maintain mental balance. This medication is reported to take full effect in up to two weeks.

Excuse me as I am a little late to the conversation. I too am interested in Stablon but unless it is approved in the U.S. it does not present as a practice/economic long term solution. If you live outside the U.S. than that is different.

I can't speak on Stablon as I have never tried it, but I do have experience with your major SSRI/SNRI's. In my experience these meds will not "eliminate" your fear of taking exams. The only med that I can think of that will "quiet your fears" would be something in the Benzo class (Klonopin, Xanax, etc.). These drugs are not are not necessarily great long term solutions as they present their own issues. In the short term, however, they may meet your needs. These meds MAY impact your ability to process new information (I.E. studying) because of how they work in the brain.

So maybe an SSRI/SNRI (or possibly this new med VIIBRYD) plus an appropriate dose of say, Klonopin, may meet your needs. You should talk to a doctor.

If you do go with Stablon please let us know how it goes. On paper, this med sounds interesting for those of us with anxiety/depression.

Good luck!


----------



## The Professor

norad said:


> But what if this must not happen? In my current state I would be absolutely unable to take important exams which everything depends on this is exactly why I need something which somehow helps me against the fears of the exams and also against the feeling of everything being senseless and hopeless because of my other circumstances. If it was up to me I'd just give up and stop studying because everything is hopeless but I cannot. I have to go on and keep struggling even though it's all pointless.


see below



Huk phin said:


> Excuse me as I am a little late to the conversation. I too am interested in Stablon but unless it is approved in the U.S. it does not present as a practice/economic long term solution. If you live outside the U.S. than that is different.
> 
> You may already know this but you can order it online. I don't think we can talk about it publicly on this forum though.
> 
> I can't speak on Stablon as I have never tried it, but I do have experience with your major SSRI/SNRI's. In my experience these meds will not "eliminate" your fear of taking exams. The only med that I can think of that will "quiet your fears" would be something in the Benzo class (Klonopin, Xanax, etc.). These drugs are not are not necessarily great long term solutions as they present their own issues. In the short term, however, they may meet your needs. These meds MAY impact your ability to process new information (I.E. studying) because of how they work in the brain.
> Good luck!


It all depends, but I think for sure that SSRIs can help with his test anxiety. The main effect of SSRIs is that they make you more resilient to stress and better able to handle it (AKA more apathetic, in my case at least) I didn't care about school very much when I was on it, so I would definitely say that it eliminated my "test anxiety". Obviously though, this was a bad effect and I made the decision that it is better for me to be anxious about school and in general than to be apathetic about my grades and my future. Although, I've been questioning this lately...

Good luck![/QUOTE]


----------



## norad

Hello, I'm in Europe but I don't know if Stablon is available in my country and if the insurance would cover it and if my doctor even knows it. If he doesn't know it he also won't prescribe it. 
I don't think that my doctor who agree to me using SSRI + benzos on a long term basis because of the addiction risk. And then I also don't know if benzos interfere with your mental abilities. I could imagine that stuff like xanax also has a strong sedating effect. The only benzo I personally know is lorazepam. 

I really needed something not only against depression but also against fear.
The depression keeps me from studying because I'm depressed and feel like it's all senseless and the fear is also very negative. Sometimes it's a more a acute fear and almost feels like a panic attack but without a real outburst of panic but sometimes it is also more like a sense of impending doom kinda like when you know that you have a dangerous surgery coming up which is still a few months away but you're still afraid of it.
I have listened to a lot of tapes on how to deal with fear and they usually tell you stuff like an anxiety attack cannot harm you and that should simply relax and so on. But this stuff doesn't help me because an anxiety attack can very well be dangerous. Imagine you get an anxiety attack in a situation where you simply must not get one like when you're in an exam? Then all those advice don't help.


----------



## meedo

norad said:


> Hello, I'm in Europe but I don't know if Stablon is available in my country and if the insurance would cover it and if my doctor even knows it. If he doesn't know it he also won't prescribe it.
> I don't think that my doctor who agree to me using SSRI + benzos on a long term basis because of the addiction risk. And then I also don't know if benzos interfere with your mental abilities. I could imagine that stuff like xanax also has a strong sedating effect. The only benzo I personally know is lorazepam.
> 
> I really needed something not only against depression but also against fear.
> The depression keeps me from studying because I'm depressed and feel like it's all senseless and the fear is also very negative. Sometimes it's a more a acute fear and almost feels like a panic attack but without a real outburst of panic but sometimes it is also more like a sense of impending doom kinda like when you know that you have a dangerous surgery coming up which is still a few months away but you're still afraid of it.
> I have listened to a lot of tapes on how to deal with fear and they usually tell you stuff like an anxiety attack cannot harm you and that should simply relax and so on. But this stuff doesn't help me because an anxiety attack can very well be dangerous. Imagine you get an anxiety attack in a situation where you simply must not get one like when you're in an exam? Then all those advice don't help.


I think you can find it in France. Also online.


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## norad

But is it really worth the effort? Maybe it's not much different than SSRIs.


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## Arisa1536

well stablon is not available here yet either I mean we have only just go Zoloft (as of December 2010) so its unlikely we will get it soon and yeah SSRIs have a habit of working well at first then wearing off or just stabilizing and not having the same effect as they did at first and its the same with SNRI meds like pristiq and effexor


----------



## norad

That sucks. I don't want something which wears off. I want something reliable which will also work in a year. What sense does it make to test all kinds of meds before you find something which works when it'll only work for a short time?


----------



## DK3

ugh1979 said:


> I use Stablon once a week as part of a rotating regmine, but effects from it are usually pretty subtle, and I sometimes wonder if it's worth keeping taking it.
> 
> After my 30mg dose yesterday morning I didn't feel that much as per usual, but did feel better later in the day. However this morning I feel amazing and my usual Thursday morning 1g Picamilon seems to have been potentiated by the previous days 30mg Stablon.
> 
> Is this possible? I was of the understanding Stablon has quite a short half life.


They say Stablon has a very short half life of 2.5 hrs but I get the impression from taking it with other substances that it does linger in the system a lot longer (into the next day) and can affect brain chemistry and responses to other substances.. not profoundly like an SSRI, but still, I do notice some differences in how other drugs feel, suggesting a possible Stablon interaction of sorts. I think a complete wash-out of several days is needed if you want a clean experience when experimenting recreationally with substances while taking Stablon. That's just my personal feeling and intitution though. At least Stablon is a great anti-depressant in that respect, you can stop/start without any penalty.


----------



## DK3

norad said:


> Isn't it totally risky to try something which could either lose it's effect after a while or have bad side effects when you discontinue using it?
> I think this is really scary. What if the drug loses it's effect right at a time when you totally need it? :afr
> This would mean that if you're afraid of a certain event which is months out that you mustn't even start taking AD too far in advance because of the risk of it losing its effect. But at the same time you also need time to experiment to even find a drug which works.


I wouldn't put Stablon into a category of drug like that.. but users should be aware that the first week or two of using it are not the true effects of the drug, and the stimulation and mild euphoria could be considered a "side effect" while the brain adjusts to the drug.. Like with conventional anti-depressants, you need to allow several weeks (3-4) for Stablon to manifest its full theraputic effects... so you would obviously need to allow time for it to work to see if its the right drug for your personal situation.

The good thing about Stablon though is that unlike other AD drugs, you can stop and start it as you like without any ill-effects or the drug losing its effectiveness AFAIK.

This raises the question of whether Stablon would retain it's stimulatory/mild euphoric effects if used in this on/off manner with sufficient breaks inbetween of several weeks or months... if that is the case, then perhaps Stablon could be an effective ad-hoc treatment (taken at higher doses) for social events, periods of low mood, or intense SA, rather than as a long term daily treatment.


----------



## DK3

*Back on Stablon*

I just wanted to post for those interested in this thread, that I have begun taking Stablon again. I had tried it last year as reported on this thread, with positive effects but discontinued as it was expensive and I only had a 2 weeks supply of it to sample. It didn't really do much for my SA by itself (besides making me happier which helped a little), but was very effective as a mood stabliser, motivator and energy booster.

I have recently been suffering depression (winter blues which carried over into the new year), mood swings and lethargy, so I turned to my old friend Stablon again. I saw a special offer on Stablon with a certain online pharmacy so decided to get 3 months supply and give it a proper try.

My reason for taking Stablon is for the mood stablising/lifting benefits rather than as a SA treatment. However I think it will have some benefits in tackling SA indirectly if it helps me stay motivated to exercise and do other things to improve my situation. They do say you need to allow 3-4 weeks daily use for the proper theraptic benefits to manifest.

I've been on it about 12 days now with a few days off inbetween..I initially took 3x25mg on the first day but found it too stimulating and experienced a slight headache.. I dropped to the recommended dose 3x12.5mg and feel the mood lifting benefit and some mild stimulation still, kind of very subtle warm glowy feeling.

I will post again once I'm past the 3-4 week mark to let you know whether the initial stimulation disappears as is often stated, and how well Stablon works on depression and whether any anti-anxiety benefits begin.


----------



## not1idea

*XR?*

This is fairly recent, June 16, 2012:

http://dialog.newsedge.com/portal.a...sitetopics&mode=realtime&nzenb=left&criteria=[topic%3Dxxethcn]&searchID=720031&datetime=[t-minus%3D7]&hdlaction=story&storyid=[storyid=-rwquYU-Crt9pgaA_voHTeU0Nau5oY3JH8Qg8JDaDROgcaAmOfKBkxNbqvWP0r-g]&rtcrdata=on&epname=ECONWRLD&

If I understand what I am reading correctly, tianeptine sulfate salt would allow the manufacture of an XR form of this medication and the patent has just been approved.

I don't know much about patent/manufacture/availability of medications.

Can someone who knows more than me comment on what happens when the patent is approved? Does this mean that it will become available? Next week, next year, next decade (or lifetime)?

I am also wondering if this may fix the patent problems that currently hinder wider availability.

Any other useful comment on this patent approval as it relates to accessing tianeptine would be appreciated.


----------



## not1idea

Seems that the link buggered up somehow in my first post so here is a copy & paste job:

06/16/2012 04:35:36 AM EDT -- Targeted News Service
Janssen Biotech Assigned Patent

By Targeted News Service
ALEXANDRIA, Va., June 16 -- Janssen Biotech, Horsham, Pa., has been assigned a patent (8,198,268) developed by six co-inventors for a "tianeptine sulfate salt forms and methods of making and using the same." The co-inventors are Hector Guzman, Jamaica Plain, Mass., Alexey Popov, Waltham, Mass., Thomas J.L. Rammeloo, Vosselaar, Belgium, Julius Remenar, Framingham, Mass., Jihad B. Saoud, Groton, Mass., and Mark Tawa, Acton, Mass.
The abstract of the patent published by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office states: "Disclosed herein is a novel sulfate salt of tianeptine with improved properties. Also described herein are novel pharmaceutical compositions comprising tianeptine sulfate salt, methods of making, and related methods of treatment."
The patent application was filed on Oct. 23, 2009 (12/604,977). The full-text of the patent can be found at http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...d=PTXT&s1=8,198,268&OS=8,198,268&RS=8,198,268
Written by Satyaban Rath; edited by Hemanta Panigrahi.
SR0616HP0616-750199
(c) 2012 Targeted News Service


----------



## tokkitaco

Stablon is stupid. There's a reason this stuff never became popular and why they let the patent run out on it..because it sucks. 

First off, you are not going to get high from this. So just dont even bother if that's your intent. Second, dont compare this to an SSRI, it's a completely different type of drug. It's like comparing adderall to prozac. So if you've ever taken an SSRI and it's worked..don't think this is going to have a similar effect. 

After taking this for about 2 weeks straight (12.5mg 3 times/day) I can say at the price you will pay for this it's completely pointless. The feeling from this is almost completely dopamine related. I don't care how this drug goes about doing it but that's what it is, and the effects are very minimal. There's also a hint of an opiod like feeling. 

The first dose felt almost identical to taking yohimbe. Slight increase in energy and mood. Things bothered me less and I was happy within my thoughts. It kind of gave me that "I don't care" attitude but with a little energy and motivation added. This all seems better in writing, you have to understand these effects are very light. Anyway, it wasn't until maybe my 6th dosage when I felt this drug to it's full effect. Big increase in energy but not out of control, lowered inhibitions/more free spirited, more intuitive, better thought process, and more outgoing towards people I know but not strangers. Think low dose adderall + tylenol + 1 shot of alcohol when they're all working really well. I also had about 4 cups of coffee that day so I'm sure that had an inflence. But that was the first and last time I felt like that with this drug. After that it felt like a low dose of adderall that just wasn't working anymore. It made me feel blah, like I have no personality, and the energy effect was gone. 

The worst part of this drug is that it makes my OCD worse and does little to nothing for SA. Also, there ARE withdraw effects but they don't last that long. Just feel tired and drained. But because of the short half life you can go from being high to low within a short period. You have to keep taking it at least every 3-4 hours otherwise you will look like an idiot when it stops working. People will think you are either very bi-polar or you are definitely on something. This stuff is just way too expensive for that.


----------



## The Professor

tokkitaco said:


> Stablon is stupid. There's a reason this stuff never became popular and why they let the patent run out on it..because it sucks.
> 
> First off, you are not going to get high from this. So just dont even bother if that's your intent. Second, dont compare this to an SSRI, it's a completely different type of drug. It's like comparing adderall to prozac. So if you've ever taken an SSRI and it's worked..don't think this is going to have a similar effect.
> 
> After taking this for about 2 weeks straight (12.5mg 3 times/day) I can say at the price you will pay for this it's completely pointless. The feeling from this is almost completely dopamine related. I don't care how this drug goes about doing it but that's what it is, and the effects are very minimal. There's also a hint of an opiod like feeling.
> 
> The first dose felt almost identical to taking yohimbe. Slight increase in energy and mood. Things bothered me less and I was happy within my thoughts. It kind of gave me that "I don't care" attitude but with a little energy and motivation added. This all seems better in writing, you have to understand these effects are very light. Anyway, it wasn't until maybe my 6th dosage when I felt this drug to it's full effect. Big increase in energy but not out of control, lowered inhibitions/more free spirited, more intuitive, better thought process, and more outgoing towards people I know but not strangers. Think low dose adderall + tylenol + 1 shot of alcohol when they're all working really well. I also had about 4 cups of coffee that day so I'm sure that had an inflence. But that was the first and last time I felt like that with this drug. After that it felt like a low dose of adderall that just wasn't working anymore. It made me feel blah, like I have no personality, and the energy effect was gone.
> 
> The worst part of this drug is that it makes my OCD worse and does little to nothing for SA. Also, there ARE withdraw effects but they don't last that long. Just feel tired and drained. But because of the short half life you can go from being high to low within a short period. You have to keep taking it at least every 3-4 hours otherwise you will look like an idiot when it stops working. People will think you are either very bi-polar or you are definitely on something. This stuff is just way too expensive for that.


There is a XR Tianeptine in the works. I'm sure this would be more effective for practical use.


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## lit

Any one know if this is available in Sweden?.


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## CD700

lit said:


> Any one know if this is available in Sweden?.


Google anti-aging systems


----------



## DaneV

IAS doesn`t ship within Europe as far as I know.... I always ordered my stablon at Aurapharm (not going to place the link here but just google it)


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## Vehe

For me it didn't do anything at 12.5mg 3x/day, but the day I took a double dosage...wow... it was pure heaven. I continued to take 25mg 3x day and it worked very good for two weeks. After two weeks it stopped working and just made be irritable. 
Then I started fixing my Adrenal Glands with "Adrenergize", Vitamin C, Magnesium Chloride.
After they were fixed I added fuel to Stablon: DMAE (350mg 2x/day) + DLPA (1g 3x/day) and restarted Stablon at 25mg 2x/day. It never stopped working again. Maybe some days the effect is not as strong so I tested other dosages (up to 50mg 2x/day) and found out the best for me is 30mg 2x/day. Now I also add Inositol at ><5g 2x/day to fuel it.

I'm basically fearless, but then again, I never had SA to begin with, just some real bad ups and downs and a whole lot of anxiety.


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## Mish

Yea, so aurapharm.com is the cheapest you will find it. $33.00 for 60 servier brand. I have seen zero effect from taking the stuff at the recommended dose to be very honest which was something i never wanted to believe because of all the hype of and positivity about the drug. It has many neuro stimulating and helpful properties which might be good to take just for that. I might double the dose to see if there is any change.


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## 029

*France tightens Tianeptine rules*

France has made it more difficult to obtain Tianeptine. As of september it is partly treated the same as listed drugs. Apparently because 1 out of 1000 users become abusers. 
http://ansm.sante.fr/S-informer/Inf...embre-2012-Lettre-aux-professionnels-de-sante


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## 029

Here's the full story on the new French regulations on Stablon/tianeptine (in French of course) http://ansm.sante.fr/Activites/Surv...que-d-usage-detourne-ou-de-dependance/STABLON


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## 029

Does anybody know a reliable source for Tianeptine? Aurapharm currently does not have it, and all other online shops I tried also no succes. They have run out, they need a prescription, they don't ship to the NL, or they don't answer...


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## riloal

Hi,i order from brandmedicines.com with no problems


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## Konami

riloal said:


> Hi,i order from brandmedicines.com with no problems


do they require prescription ?


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## Konami

riloal said:


> Hi,i order from brandmedicines.com with no problems


did you order Coaxil 12.5 mg?
ive tried to order it but it says "waiting for approval "


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## Konami

so i have emailed these guys from brandmedicines.com about Stablon and here is their response(what do you think? s scamers or not?)

Thank you for signing up to our website. Coaxil is acctually in stock, but due to the issues we currently have preventing us from accepting online payments, we are only able to accept the following payment methods:



· Western Union


· MoneyGram


· Bank Transfers (We hold a Bank account in Europe)



Please, if some of the above is appropriate for you, reply to this email and we shall enable your account for shopping.
In order to partially cover your transfer expenses, we will apply a 10% discount on all storefront prices.
Kind regards,

Brandmedicines Customer Service


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## riloal

I always paid by paypal in brandmedicines.com


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## 029

The only way to have some certainty about the reliability is to find some customer reviews. I looked at pharmacyreviewer, and it does not look very good. A lot of items out of stock, prices sometimes too low to be true. But I also read that some people got their meds. 
Please keep us posted on the status of your order!


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## 029

http://www.pharmacyreviewer.com/for...reviews-section/18940-brandmedicines-com.html

@konamitech: Make sure you look at the latest posts.

Did they also ask for a refferal?


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## riloal

Also i want to add that i also ordered tianeptine from aurapharm. The tianeptine i got from aureapharm it,s different from the brandmedicines. The box and the blister are differents. But the tianeptine from aureapharm doesn,t work for me it has no effects on me, good or bad. But the one from brandmedicines works good for me. I sugest that if anyone only took tianeptine from aureapharm to get from other source, cause to me it seems sugar pills.


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## 029

*Tianeptine did not do much for me*

I've been on Servier Coaxil tianeptine for four weeks, but it does not have the effect I hoped it would, so I am not continuing it. The first days I felt really good but unfortunately it did not last, so maybe it was a placebo effect. At best tianeptine for me is a light and short acting mood enhancer. It barely reduces my social anxiety and irritability however.

I had the best effects taking one 12,5 mg pill every 3 to 4 hours, as the pills seem to work for a few hours only. I tried taking two pills at once several times, which gave me a sort of light physical 'high', a bit like the feeling after finishing your first beer. It is pleasant, but not really convenient at work. I did not notice any side effects though, besides vivid dreams - every night.


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## yay

Why is there no time released version of stablon?

And what is the highest possible dose you can take in 24 hours?


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## Migo3700

M always stressed and rarely elated.
Have tried some Siri and xanax but results were not ok.
I amnow trying stablon,12.5 mg three times a day,and have never felt so good and relax specially when waking up in the morning


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## Broshious2

Coming in quite a bit late to this discussion, but Tianeptine is still available online. Unfortunately I've only really seen it in powdered form which is always a nice game of Russian Roulette.


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## T800

Migo3700 said:


> M always stressed and rarely elated.
> Have tried some Siri and xanax but results were not ok.
> I amnow trying stablon,12.5 mg three times a day,and have never felt so good and relax specially when waking up in the morning


I have been taking it for a few days. Don't feel better at all just tired. Dammit.


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## Maxxxx

I took this med for 5 weeks (I was on 3 x 12,5 mg for four weeks). Mainly had to stop because it made my depression even worse and it didn't help with anxiety at all. Also the short half life reg. taking the med 3 times a day sucks.

However, I didn't had the usual side effects I experienced with other antidepressants. From what it looks like it seems to be the best tolerated med in terms of side effects together with moclobemide, so you may give it a shot.


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## seraphim69

*sources of tianeptine*

First post, hear but I have followed alot of threads and have learned a great deal about sodium tianeptine, thanks for everybodys contribution to the topic.

Tianeptine is relatively cheap here in U.S. $9.88 at powdercity, and the company is reputable.

I use tianeptine for general mood lift from time to time. For me it has a mild euphoric and relaxation experience,dont be fooled by the relatively short half life (2.5) there is a nice after glow although it makes me a little tired. I use it a relatively high amount 100 mgs. 1x a day as needed. I have used at 12.5 mgs and the effect was a little subtle but noticeable. I would reccomend keeping this in your backpocket, so to speak as it works quickly 15 to 20 min. and at higher doses 50mgs-to 75 mgs it can help if you have a low to medium depression episode or anxiety. oddly it does not adversely affect libido in fact for me it enhances it as it obliterates mild anxiety and depression at higher doses!! I do reccomend as always to check with doctor before trying especially if you are on other medications, herbs and nootropics etc. All Hail Tianeptine!!:clap


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## will22

Guys don't order powders/pills from unregulated/grey/black-market sites and just assume you're getting the real deal. 

I've heard rumors of people somehow getting Tianeptine through the perfectly legal route of doctor and prescription in the U.S.
But I have no idea how that would happen.


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## hack646

Tianeptine is a decent drug. I take it about once a week, it is mildly anxiolytic and has slight mood lifting properties. It's easily the worst drug in my PRN stack (Kpin, Lyrica, Phenibut) but it serves it's purpose. I usually take it on a day that isn't very stressful and it does a good job of removing any background anxiety. Due to it's short half-life I usually have to dose twice a day (12.5mg each), and even sometimes three times a day. Some people say taking high doses is euphoric, but i've tried taking just three at a time and it just gave me a bad headache.


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## scorch428

seraphim69 said:


> First post, hear but I have followed alot of threads and have learned a great deal about sodium tianeptine, thanks for everybodys contribution to the topic.
> 
> Tianeptine is relatively cheap here in U.S. $9.88 at powdercity, and the company is reputable.
> 
> I use tianeptine for general mood lift from time to time. For me it has a mild euphoric and relaxation experience,dont be fooled by the relatively short half life (2.5) there is a nice after glow although it makes me a little tired. I use it a relatively high amount 100 mgs. 1x a day as needed. I have used at 12.5 mgs and the effect was a little subtle but noticeable. I would reccomend keeping this in your backpocket, so to speak as it works quickly 15 to 20 min. and at higher doses 50mgs-to 75 mgs it can help if you have a low to medium depression episode or anxiety. oddly it does not adversely affect libido in fact for me it enhances it as it obliterates mild anxiety and depression at higher doses!! I do reccomend as always to check with doctor before trying especially if you are on other medications, herbs and nootropics etc. All Hail Tianeptine!!:clap


I work at Powder City, and yes, our company is reputable. A few of us recently bought Tianeptine just to try it out, and wow, the results were amazing. I've been on half a dozen anti-depressents over the years, and nothing seemed to do anything for my SA. But after taking about 100mg of Tianeptine, my anxiety disappeared. We were all more relaxed, and felt great. It works.


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## megabandp

It is now possible to get a longer lasting (half-life) Tianeptine from Ceretropic. It's called Tianeptine Sulfate Powder. I've ordered some, might take a week or two for it to reach me I am in Canada. This will be my first time trying Tianeptine but I've read good things about it from many places. Has anyone tried Tianeptine from Ceretropic, please share your experiences.


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