# Dopamine and Social anxiety



## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I keep reading thread on this forum about people lacking focus, low-self esteem, motivation and ofcourse, having social anxiety. As far as the cause of SAD, it seems to be related to Dopamine neurons that are under active. This information gives us a POWERFUL therapeutic tool at out disposal.

I don't know a thing about drugs that increase Dopamine levels, except Selegiline (deprenyl) which I recently started using, or any MAO-B inhibitors. (http://www.selegiline.com/)

However, I do know that supplements like L-tyrosine, L-phenylalamine and DL-phenylalanine can potentially increase Dopamine output. For some anecdotal evidence, I've been using Tyrosine with great results. I just have to remember to take it! Sure, this is not a cure but it helps us cope while THE REAL cause is found (i.e. that which is causing the dopaminergic neurons to fail).

Seeing as this is a forum about social anxiety, I would expect this topic to be a hot issue of debate but it has not seem to garner attention at all.

I don't know about you all, but I'm f****** tired of feeling this way.

Here's some evidence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1516-44462006000400003&script=sci_arttext

http://books.google.com/books?id=S3kpc_dOcrcC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=%22Dopamine+and+social+anxiety+disorder%22&source=web&ots=JbfOtZuixt&sig=pzBUPXBTOC6TzhUcaH1JqE_jqEE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result

Low dopamine in the D2 receptors is also associated with Parkinson's disease and schizophrenia (as well as high Dopamine in D1) so are we eventually doomed to fall into the same road??

BOOM! Right there! Get ready folks, the worst is yet to come....



> There has also been some interesting work looking at social anxiety in DA-related disorders such as Parkinson's disease and schizophrenia. *SAnD is common in Parkinson's disease and most commonly predates the motor symptoms in patients who have no prior history of anxiety. This suggests that the two conditions may be related, with a degeneration leading to reduced DA and in turn an increase in anxiety. *
> 
> *The association between SAnD and schizophrenia is increasingly being recognized, with social anxiety being the most common anxiety disorder comorbid with this condition. Social anxiety often occurs prior to the onset of psychotic symptoms and before the use of antipsychotics in many cases. *
> 
> ...


Did you miss that? It said, "mercury related DA dysfunction"

Enjoy and happy socializing!


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Actually, while quite interesting, those studies don't seem to have a consistent correlation between dopamine levels and the onset of Social Anxiety disorder. 

In schizophrenia it is markedly high levels of dopamine which lead to the psychotic symptoms of the illness and in Parkinson's Disease it is very LOW levels of dopamine which are strongly related to the diseases effects. So those studies would seem to support that it is either too high or too low levels of dopamine which is linked to social anxiety disorder. 

I have tried to get my doc to prescribe me selegeline but he won't prescribe MAOIs. How has the selegeline been effecting you?


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## sawyoushine (Nov 21, 2008)

Beggiatoa, you are an asset to this forum my friend and I have learned a lot from your post's. My SA seemed to transform over time and is strictly an enviormental condition. I think the way we are raised as adolesents has something to do with it, add any experiences through bullying, teasing, etc. and it gets even worse. I dont know, maybe I'm trying to rationalize the whole thing but we learn our social skills from our parents.. when you come from a family who isn't close or doesn't share experiences and isn't a tight knit group then you get lost in the shuffle a bit. There are other factors sure, but these occurances definetly weaken our brain chemicals in some way. SA and general anxiety are rather vague and thats just my take on it through my own experience, cannot speak for others, havent really studied this thing enough to pass judgement. I'm pretty sure people with schizophrenia have increased dopamine activity.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

KurtG85 said:


> Actually, while quite interesting, those studies don't seem to have a consistent correlation between dopamine levels and the onset of Social Anxiety disorder.
> 
> In schizophrenia it is markedly high levels of dopamine which lead to the psychotic symptoms of the illness and in Parkinson's Disease it is very LOW levels of dopamine which are strongly related to the diseases effects. So those studies would seem to support that it is either too high or too low levels of dopamine which is linked to social anxiety disorder.
> 
> I have tried to get my doc to prescribe me selegeline but he won't prescribe MAOIs. How has the selegeline been effecting you?


With schizo, the story is not just about increased dopamine. I have written about this before.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f11/dopamine-is-my-foe-51874/index3.html#post742885

That whole thread has lots of good info. as well.

The functions of two classes of dopaminergic neurons are reversed so that there is a decrease in dopamine function in one (which leads to the social anxiety, withdrawal, de-motivation etc.) while at the same time, there is an increase in dopamine function in neurons that are normally inhibited. Thus, there is loss of inhibition. (this causes the hallucinations) This is why the symptoms of schizo and classified as positive and negative.

So the theory of low dopamine (in D2 receptors) causing social withdrawal in BOTH parkinson's and Schizo still holds true.

Keep in mind, there are always opposing views when trying to prove something. If you spend a decent amount of time on Pubmed, you will find this. This is true even for things that are widely accepted as true today, like H.pylori causing stomach ulcers. Search for this and you'll find studies proving it wrong. We know better though.

I'm not trying to make any major scientific breakthroughs here, I'm just trying to find tools to help us cope. With that said, even if something only "allegedly or anecdotally" helps and it is harmless either way, I believe it's worth a try.

Here's another link about low dopamine and SAD

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/3/457

Wiki also makes a reference to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_phobia#Neurochemical_and_neurocognitive_influences

I only started using selegiline today but so far I've experienced increased concentration, better mood and motivation. I'm aso feeling a bit euphoric and high! Ofcourse, this could all be placebo but it correlates with the expected benefits.

I use a liquid deprenyl called cyprenil. I buy it from Mexico http://www.cytopharmaonline.com/xtraproducts.asp

At low doses (~ 1 mg = 1 drop per day), selegiline is a selective, irreversibl MAO-B inhibitor so it only affects Dopamine and something else I can't remember. This is the effect you want. I'm trying to use it to boost dopamine and improve my sociability. There are also other benefits from selegiline which you can read at the article I linked above.

I hope this helps!


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

sawyoushine said:


> Beggiatoa, you are an asset to this forum my friend and I have learned a lot from your post's. My SA seemed to transform over time and is strictly an enviormental condition. I think the way we are raised as adolesents has something to do with it, add any experiences through bullying, teasing, etc. and it gets even worse. I dont know, maybe I'm trying to rationalize the whole thing but we learn our social skills from our parents.. when you come from a family who isn't close or doesn't share experiences and isn't a tight knit group then you get lost in the shuffle a bit. There are other factors sure, but these occurances definetly weaken our brain chemicals in some way. SA and general anxiety are rather vague and thats just my take on it through my own experience, cannot speak for others, havent really studied this thing enough to pass judgement. I'm pretty sure people with schizophrenia have increased dopamine activity.


Thanks for the complement [thumb]

No doubt SAD is a complex, multi-factorial problem since it appears in many different conditions. However, no matter what the cause is, they all use the same biochemical pathway to manifest the symptoms, that is, by lowering D2 dopaminergic function. So the same treatment will help everyone!

Think about it. There are illicit drugs out there that increase socialization like Ecstasy, GHB, low dose LSD. It doesn't matter how you became socially anxious, they will make you socialize like crazy! So they must alter whatever pathway is broken in a positive way. I think you can duplicate this effect with things like Tyrosine or drugs like MAO-B inhibitors.

I only wish more people participated in these discussions. All you really need is will and google


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

To better illustrate my point, here's a list of the negative symptoms of Schizo..



> "Negative" symptoms of Schizophrenia , these symptoms are the lack of important abilities. Some of these include:
> 
> Alogia, or poverty of speech, is the lessening of speech fluency and productivity, thought to reflect slowing or blocked thoughts, and often manifested as short, empty replies to questions.
> 
> ...


In Parkinson's, you also have anxiety, depression and social isolation unrelated to the obvious psychological factors.

You see how many of these also apply to SA?


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

I pretty much experience all of those negative schizo symptoms.


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## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

Doesn't exercising regularly boost Dopamine levels as well? I used to exercise on a consistent basis, then stopped, and then I started weed and then everything went downhill from there. Then, in my senior year I started playing soccer again and then I got a girlfriend and things were starting to look up from there. Then I graduated, stopped playing sports, lost the girlfriend and went downhill from there. Maybe there is a trend here or maybe its a coincidence. I dunno I've been trying anything, except exercise and medication so I think I'm going to try exercising regularly again.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Well after reading through your other post I am still really not quite clear on the noticeable effects in behavior associated with increased or decreased D1 D2 activity but its a very interesting study. If you have any sites that can further explain the clinical effects of varying levels of D1, D2 I would love to do some more reading through them.

I saw a program awhile ago that talked about how high levels of dopamine correlated with individuals with high musical aptitude and creativity, obsessive compulsive disorder, and tourettes syndrome. It also discussed how a man taking dopamine for parkinsons disease developed a sudden intense need for musical creation and expression and some OCD tendencies as well, though I could be wrong on that. The program even tells of how this man experienced a panic attack on stage and developed a life long fear of performing in front of people. However the main focus of the documentary (the man with tourettes, OCD, and extreme musical drive/talent) did meet with another musical 'prodigy' who happened to be a young autistic boy (which is curious in itself as one of the main traits of autism is a major lack of social understanding). However the main character found that the autistic boy was not as motivated as he was by surges of emotion to create music and the boy just found that he was very good at it and so he enjoyed it. 

Also, I myself have exceptional musical talent and more importantly; drive (i.e. I get a ton of pleasure from music and am extremelly stimulated by it, emotionally, physically, etc.). I was in numerous symphonies when I was young and won every top prize available in all of them. My brother was national champion in Jazz (regarded as the most creatively/improvisationaly expressive musical genre in existence) Clarinet. I also experience a very good deal of OCD symptoms (they usually are manifested musically, I.E. I cannot stop creating musical tunes in my head or mastering various pitches, playing 'air' instruments precisely correctly while listening to tunes I have never heard before etc. etc.). I also feel very near tourettes syndrome at times as I have similar intense waves of unpleasantness which lead to mild 'tics'.

I also have SAD of course and Adderall has been one of the most helpful things for increasing my social outgoingness and talkativeness. Strangely, adderall takes away almost all of my musical drive as well as almost all of my OCD symptoms. Adderall effects more than just dopamine of course but my understanding is that it does effect it a good amount. 

This all of course brings up a lot of paradoxes regarding the effects of dopamine and it would be cool if the varying behavioral effects of D1 and D2 could explain some of these.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is the video I was talking about. This guy reminds me a lot of me. ESPECIALLY when he talks about in the first minute of the video about having to imitate the squeek sound of a door. I am constantly having to do **** like that. That is the kind of musical OCD I refer to.


It is somewhat painful to watch this video for me because it reminds me of the 'other person' I am off medication; extremely energetically creative and joyfully impulsive but impulsive and obsessive. With this impulsiveness comes deep frustration as well as intense depression and anger which largely stems from the feeling he describes in the video (feeling like there is something inside me controlling what I feel I have to do).


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

By the way, I in no way promote the use of dopamine enhancers for people with Schizophrenia. That's just insane! lol

While it maybe improve the negative symptoms it will also worsen the positive ones (hallucinations) so this is a recipe for disaster. I was just trying to illustrate the relationship b/w dysfunctional D2 receptors and social withdrawal as is found in many different conditions. Remember, in schizo, the activity of the D1 and D2 receptors are backwards. I posted a link before on how consuming fish oil can correct this problem.

Here it is

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...good-for-social-anxiety-but-48907/#post688952

Also, any ideas introduced here should be thoroughly investigated if you're planning on doing it yourself. Never just take someone's word for it! Specially some guy only whom you don't even know!


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Kurt,

If you want to learn more info on the function of dopaminergic neurons, Wikipedia was a good starting point to that and then you can progress from there as you build a basic knowledge. There are many more D receptors than just 1 and 2 (I think 5 but it could be more) so the overall effects of increasing dopamine in general is anyone's guess.

Neurotransmitters are a complicated thing. All illicit drugs produce their effects by altering a combination of NT in very specific ways and not just one. Most of the stuff I've read about SA points to low serotonin, dopamine and acetylcholine as the basis for SAD. I have short lived successes with ACH and none with serotonin. But messing around with dopamine really worked for me. Maybe an even better combination would be to increase all 3 at once. I might try that in the near future.

I see you're confusion. It seems you have symptoms of high AND low dopamine. Again, it's more complicated than D1 and D2 so alternations (either positive or negative) in any of all the D receptors could be to blame. I'm sure if we dig deep, we could find the answer to this question and determine what action on what receptor is causing what. Are you up for that challenge?

In Parkinson's about 90% of the dopamine neurons are destroyed. I have read reports on dopamine levels being increased unduly and actually killing patients. There are less receptors so the dopamine accumulates in the brain and is toxic at high levels, just like everything else is. Google serotonin syndrome, for instance. Let me look for the link.....

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=19424&view=findpost&p=214027

Again, the issue here is they overloaded the brain with dopamine and it couldn't handle that much so it was toxic. Also, autism, savants, prodigies have other things going on that can't simply be explained by dopamine alternations. However, if any of these people experience social withdrawal, you will find they too have a decrease in function in D2 receptors. That's what the science says.

Here's another interesting fact. Drugs that increase acetylcholine are considered smart drugs because, well, they make you smarted. However, they can also lower mood because they lower dopamine levels. This is called an ACH induced depression. I experienced this while using lecithin to raise ACH. I corrected it by using Tyrosine. Drugs that decrease acetylcholine (ACH) have a mood boosting effect, probably by raising dopamine. So dopamine is very closely related to mood and regulating levels of this might prove to make a better antidepressant than serotonin raising drugs. I am also going to use an ACH booster called centrophenoxine to help me in school while at the same time, increasing Dopamine through either Tyrosine or deprenyl.

It is interesting that you mention music. I was once very extroverted, outgoing and musically gifted myself, though I was no genius. My great-grandfather was a musician/composer and I inherited that love and ability towards music. I've played piano and saxophone for many years and Jazz was one of my favorite rhythms to play. I was also very involved with singing.

One way my condition changed me that was obvious to everyone was that I lost my love for music. I used to be a happy-go-lucky kinda person, always singing something, or humming a song. It was my way. Often, I would spend hours just listening to music. All that stopped many years ago. Now, music annoys me. lol

But this is what's interesting. I started using deprenyl yesterday and you know what I spend most of the night doing? Listening to music. I was up until 5 AM just going through the songs on my PC in absolute bliss! My old self was back again!

Lastly, I completely agree with your signature. Don't dismiss something until you try it yourself


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Something interesting happened on another forum. I have Dysautonomia, which is a problem with the autonomic nervous system. Someone discovered the link between a vitamin B1 deficiency and the onset of Dysautonomia. It was an amazing article. I spent a few weeks reading through all the research material and it was true. Dysautonomia is caused by a B1 deficiency. 

A few people got tested and indeed were deficient. I too was deficient. The few people that started treatment reported amazing improvements within months. However, there was no mention as to what caused this deficiency in the first place but they had just found what's probably the best treatment modality that will ever be available to us.

Now, being that this was a support forum about Dysautonomia, you would think this finding would take center stage among the community. I mean, I'm sure everyone is there in the search for a cure, right? Well, the thread received few views and even fewer replies and quickly fell down to the bottom of the list. 

Kinda makes you wonder doesn't?


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## X33 (Feb 13, 2005)

As far as I know, the rate limiting step for dopamine synthesis in neurons is the Tyrosine Hydroxylase reaction, which converts tyrosine to L-DOPA. The quantity of available phenylalanine/tyrosine is irrelevant. Correct me if I am wrong.
To increase dopamine in the CNS, how about using levodopa / carbidopa combination as is used in Parkinsons disease? I don't know how you would get prescribed this w/o having Parkinsons.
Other drugs to consider would be dopamine receptor agonists i.e. Pramipexole and Ropinirole.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

X33 said:


> As far as I know, the rate limiting step for dopamine synthesis in neurons is the Tyrosine Hydroxylase reaction, which converts tyrosine to L-DOPA. The quantity of available phenylalanine/tyrosine is irrelevant. Correct me if I am wrong.
> To increase dopamine in the CNS, how about using levodopa / carbidopa combination as is used in Parkinsons disease? I don't know how you would get prescribed this w/o having Parkinsons.
> Other drugs to consider would be dopamine receptor agonists i.e. Pramipexole and Ropinirole.


Supplementation with tyrosine results in increased plasma and brain levels of the amino acid [4]. The rate-limiting enzyme for the creation of DA is tyrosine hydroxylase, which converts tyrosine to DOPA [5]. In rats, this enzyme is around 75% saturated, meaning that increasing tyrosine availability should have the ability to increase DA synthesis by approximately 1/3rd [6]. This makes increasing tyrosine availability less effective at increasing DA levels than increasing tryptophan availability is at increasing serotonin levels, but it is still enough to exert measurable effects [7].

This part is interesting,

However, the hormonal profile in the subjects consuming tyrosine was indicative of a decrease, rather than an increase in central dopamine levels. This is consistent with animal studies, which indicate that excessive quantities of tyrosine decrease dopamine levels [14].

You were saying Beggiota that after 500 mg, just standing in the supermarket was making you nervous so you are taking 1500 mg? But first we should find this article.

14. J Appl Physiol. 2002 Nov;93(5):1590-7. Effects of L-tyrosine and carbohydrate ingestion on endurance exercise performance. Chinevere TD, Sawyer RD, Creer AR, Conlee RK, Parcell AC.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

X33 said:


> As far as I know, the rate limiting step for dopamine synthesis in neurons is the Tyrosine Hydroxylase reaction, which converts tyrosine to L-DOPA. The quantity of available phenylalanine/tyrosine is irrelevant. Correct me if I am wrong.


You're right on the money! That's how the reaction flows in "normal" situations. Ours is different. How this is affected I honestly have no idea. Wait, just found this:



> http://books.google.com/books?id=GO...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
> 
> Because brain tyrosine levels are high enough to saturate TH, catecholamine synthesis cannot usually be inceased by administration of tyrosine. *Exceptions to this rule are catecholamine synthesis in cells that are very active, such as DA neurons that project to the prefrontal cortex*.


The prefrontal cortex. That's where the mesocortical dopaminergic pathway lies.



> From Wiki
> The *mesocortical pathway* is a neural pathway that connects the ventral tegmentum to the cerebral cortex, particularly the frontal lobes. It is one of the four major dopamine pathways in the brain. *It is essential to the normal cognitive function of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (part of the frontal lobe), and is thought to be involved in motivation and emotional* response.
> This pathway may be the brain system that is abnormal or functioning abnormally in psychoses, such as schizophrenia[1]. It is thought to be *associated with the negative symptoms of schizophrenia which include avolition, alogia and flat affect.*


According to this, increased tyrosine concentrations DO increase dopamine levels in the area that handles motivation and socialization.



> To increase dopamine in the CNS, how about using levodopa / carbidopa combination as is used in Parkinsons disease? I don't know how you would get prescribed this w/o having Parkinsons.
> Other drugs to consider would be dopamine receptor agonists i.e. Pramipexole and Ropinirole.


Those drugs would also work. But why use a drug that WILL have side effects while you can simply use more of the NATURAL precursor and obtain the same effect? I'm also using selegiline (selective MAO-B I), which is a drug but it have very positive side effects including life-extension. I consider this the exception to the rule.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> 14. J Appl Physiol. 2002 Nov;93(5):1590-7. Effects of L-tyrosine and carbohydrate ingestion on endurance exercise performance. Chinevere TD, Sawyer RD, Creer AR, Conlee RK, Parcell AC.


This study you posted tested for oxygen saturation and endurance increase when using Tyrosine. I did not say anything about dopamine. Above that, it says excessive use of tyrosine lowers dopamine. Well, what amount is considered excessive? Is 2 grams excessive? We need the number. Also, many chemicals in the body have an inverted U-shape response. When you increase the dose, you increase the response until you plateau. Any further increase will decrease the response. Maybe this explains why excessive tyrosine decreases dopamine. It makes perfect sense. As you increase the tyrosine load, the body will down regulate (make less) the receptors. This is what causes tolerance.

edit: sorry I only read the abstract. Ill try to find the whole article.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

In the meanwhile, this study found a decreased dopamine concentration with decreased dietary tyrosine/phenylalanine.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/160/10/1887

On the other hand, copper deficiency lowers tyrosine hydroxylase activity because copper is an cofactor for this enzyme.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Wikipedia always comes through...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine#Medical_use



> Tyrosine is a starting material for neurotransmitters and increases plasma neurotransmitter levels (particularly dopamine and norepinephrine)[8] but has little if any effect on mood.[9][10][11] The effect on mood is more noticeable in humans subjected to stressful conditions (see below).
> A number of studies have found tyrosine to be useful during conditions of stress, cold, fatigue,[12] prolonged work and sleep deprivation,[13][14] with reductions in stress hormone levels,[15] reductions in stress-induced weight loss seen in animal trials,[12] improvements in cognitive and physical performance[10][16][17] seen in human trials. Because tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme, however, effects are less significant than those of l-dopa.
> Tyrosine does not seem to have any significant effect on mood, cognitive or physical performance *in normal circumstances.*[18][19][20] A daily dosage supported in the literature is about 100 mg/kg for an adult.(This is about 8 grams for me)[21] The usual dosage amounts to 500-1500 mg per day (dose suggested by most manufacturers; usually an equivalent to 1-3 capsules of pure tyrosine). *It is not recommended to exceed 12000 mg (12 g) per day. In fact, too high doses result in reduced levels of dopamine.[18]* Tyrosine may decrease the absorption of other amino acids in high or chronic doses. It decreases absorption of l-dopa.
> 
> 18. ^ _*a*_ _*b*_ Chinevere TD, Sawyer RD, Creer AR, Conlee RK, Parcell AC (2002). "Effects of L-tyrosine and carbohydrate ingestion on endurance exercise performance". _J. Appl. Physiol._ *93* (5): 1590-7. doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00625.2001 (inactive 25 June 2008). PMID 12381742.


So doses of greater than 12 grams are excessive and will actually reduce Dopamine. This is good to know. I always kept the dose low, 1-2 grams, to be on the safe side but it's good to know I have more room to play around with.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Vitamin D increases the genetic expression of tyrosine hydroxylase.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2990600

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/depression.shtml

This seems to support the notion that the imbalance of dopamine in SAD is multifactorial.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=9330&view=findpost&p=93417

N-acetyl-L-Tyrosine isn't absorbed very well:



> Hepatology. 1995 Apr;21(4):923-8.
> 
> Utilization of tyrosine-containing dipeptides and N-acetyl-tyrosine in hepatic failure.
> 
> ...


L-Dopa is controversial -

Problem 1: Absorption. L-Dopa is is converted to dopamine in both the blood and brain via decarboxylase ezymes. Taking L-Dopa without a decarboxylase inhibitor (e.g. Carbidopa) may just increase peripheral dopamine without significant elevations in the CNS.

Problem 2: Neurotoxicity. A well documented condition called "Levodopa-induced dyskinesias" (LID) is assoicated with the side effects of levodopa therapy:



> J Neural Transm. 2005 Mar;112(3):359-91. Epub 2004 Dec 22.
> 
> Levodopa-induced dyskinesia in Parkinson's disease.
> 
> ...


L-Dopa shouldn't be taken, IMO, unless a disease-state (e.g Parkinson's) is being treated. Otherwise the side-effects far outweigh the supposed benefits to healthy humans.

I would stick with regular L-Tyrosine - it is cheaper, safer, and probably more effective than the other two pre-cursors.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Tyrosine is also needed by the thyroid gland along with Iodine, to product thyroid hormones. So tyrosine use can effectively raise the metabolism and your temperature. I've been taking my AM temperature for a few days to help diagnose adrenal/thyroid problems. Instead of being the normal 98.6, it is always somewhere in the 97's. Also, my hair mineral analysis showed unusual levels of iodine that apparently are not being used. This puzzled me. But, if for whatever reason I'm not getting enough tyrosine, then the Iodine is NOT being used to make thyroid hormones. This explains both these problems.

http://www.space-age.com/hypothyroidism.html

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/a/thyroid101.htm



> "The thyroid has the only cells in the body capable of absorbing iodine. The thyroid takes in iodine, obtained through food, iodized salt, or supplements, and combines it with the amino acid tyrosine. The thyroid then converts the iodine/tyrosine into the hormones T3 and T4. The "3" and the "4" refer to the number of iodine molecules in each thyroid hormone molecule."


Even if frank deficiency is not the problem, some people seem to have a higher need or dependency for tyrosine.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Tyrosine deficiency..*

If you have extremely low levels of tyrosine, you will suffer from a variety of conditions, such as muscle weakness, muscle loss, mood disorders, low protein level and liver damage.

Deficiency of tyrosine can lead to low body temperature, low blood pressure, and a restless feeling in the legs. Brain tyrosine levels are most conveniently raised by ingestion of pure tyrosine, with a high carbohydrate meal. There is evidence that small doses of tyrosine hasten the transmission of impulses in the brain.

Here's the title to a study but no abstract


"Degeneration of the eyes and central nervous system of chick embros subjected to phenylalanine or tyrosine deficiency."

-it is impossible for the brain to pay attention without sufficient levels of this amino acid. For example, it is believed that attention deficit disorder is caused by a deficiency in dopamine and norarenaline; which is the result of a L-Tyrosine deficiency. 


 
Other benefits of L-Tyrosine include assistance with headaches, depression, narcolepsy and chronic fatigue syndrome. Certain individuals may be more at risk for developing L-Tyrosine deficiencies than others. 


-*Tyrosine is abundant in insulin.
Tyrosine is a precursor of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which regulate mood, among other things. Tyrosine acts as a mood elevator; a lack of adequate amounts of tyrosine leads to a deficiency of norepinephrine in the brain, which in turn can result in depression. It suppresses the appetite and helps to reduce body fat. It aids in the production of melanin (the pigment responsible for skin and hair color) and in the functions of the adrenal, thyroid, and pituitary glands. 
It is used for stress reduction and may be beneficial in narcolepsy, fatigue, anxiety, depression, allergies, headaches as well as drug withdrawal. In a study, using soldiers, tyrosine proved effective in alleviating stress and keeping them more alert. *


-*Symptoms of tyrosine deficiency can also include low blood pressure, low body temperature (such as cold hands and feet), and "restless leg syndrome." (I have all three symptoms) :afr*

-deficiency: Since tyrosine is a precursor to thyroid hormones and catecholamines, *a deficiency leads to hypothyroidism and low adrenal function.

*therapeutic dose: 1-8 g per day. 100 mg/kg of body weight/day; this constitutes a large dose. When appropriate, most healthcare providers trained in nutritional therapies would start with 2 g per day and work up.Supplemental use at therapeutic doses would typically be short term.

side effects/toxicity: L-Tyrosine has very low toxicity. There have been very few reports of toxicity.

http://home.caregroup.org/clinical/altmed/interactions/Nutrients/Tyrosine.htm


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

I have cold feet, hands, and restless legs alot. My BP can drop too 95/70 also sometimes... I have pharmaceutical grade tyrosine on hand. I'll try 1-2g per day.


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Fantastic info Beggiatoa (and others). Thanks so much. I have felt like I have hit a research brick wall over the last few months (having tried basically every med available accept for selegiline which I have had my eye on for a long time now, but which my current doc will not prescribe) and this discussion has really revitalized other potential therapeutic routes. Even before seeing this thread my years of experience with meds has left me pondering more than anything what combination of dopamine affecting meds would work best for me because I have seen the most positive social and motivation drive related effects from them. If I didn't mention I have always had like absolutely 0 motivation to do school work, be organized or seek any social interaction (even though I desire a good and comfortable social ability and life more than anything). 

I will also add that I also have (self diagnosed) restless-legs syndrome however adderall gets rid of this almost entirely as well. 

In addition to some of the things I feel adderall 'takes away' from me is my ability to dance. People still say I am a great dancer but off of adderall I am 100 times better, I just will never dance in front of anyone without adderall's confidence boosting effects. Also, adderall seems to take away a huge amount of my energy and drive when playing sports. I was the only freshmen to play varsity soccer in highschool but when I started adderall in softmore year all the older guys would comment to each other: 'what is going on with Kurt', because I just did not have the energy, reaction time, focus and ferocity that I did while not on adderall. It seems to very much relate to the pleasure I get from dancing and music; I did not have that desire to release some internal energy that I would say is analogous to creative energy. I also felt this lack of drive correspond with a huge decrease in sexual drive and energy and I still feel this decrease in libido from adderall to this day. It almost seems like adderall lowers my dopamine levels since I experience this large decrease in creativity and sex drive that dopamine typically raises (but again this may relate to the various forms of dopamine sites or receptors you mention). I should also say that I take only 5mg of adderall from which I notice a strong effect and I have incredibly rapid response rates to any new meds I try.

Basically what I felt was happening when I started adderall was that I became hyper focused and completely obsessive on managing others impression of me, not in the sense that I felt that I could manipulate them in any way (which I have always felt desperately out of control of), but that I had to constantly work on keeping myself in a meditative, relaxed state so that I could remain focused and 'happy' when people talked to me, so that they would not have a negative response to me, which I am hyper aware and sensitive of. Before adderall I had so little focus and self control that I just sort of was resolved to being a complete space cadet, angry and embittered that I could have no positive social interaction because of my apparant complete lack of the ability to experience joy or communicate effectively without humiliating myself. Adderall mainly helped me socially because I could suddenly say all the humorous things I have always been thinking but lacked the confidence to say (and people suddenly realized, other than my few close friends, that I was quite funny). It did not in any way get rid of the extreme insecurities and fear I have of being rejected by people. My sudden ability to be socially accepted to some degree actually made things 1000 times more draining to me because I put so much OCD energy into anticipating and managing these interactions.

Yet another point of interest: I was diagnosed as emerging schizophrenic at the age of 16. I have developed no signs of schizophrenia since then and about 3 doctors I have had since that first doctor told me that they would never consider such a diagnosis. I have heard misdiagnosis of schizophrenia often linked to those with social phobia as well as OCD/tourettes type people as well as those on adderal (amphetamine psychosis). Adderall does in fact lead to way too much obsessive internal dialogue or thought as I have mentioned, mainly as a means to try and manage my outward social acceptableness. I believe my doctor misinterpreted my excessive attempts to manage others impressions of me and my extreme sensitivity to how I saw their reactions as some form of psychosis in that I thought I could 'control them' or some other BS. But anyways, that doctor was just a moron. 

Anyhow, I just share these things to expand on the possible dopamine related effects of these things and because I saw someone make some reference to reduced exercising energy with raised dopamine levels. Sorry if I rambled on to annoying length.

I have tried L-tyrosine on a few occasions and while it definitely helps my libido I find it makes me quite nervous and emotional (in a bad, unstable way).


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

from the article

Animal studies have shown that tyrosine doses of 20 mg/kg resulted in marked increases in dopamine synthesis, but doses of 50 mg/kg resulted in dopamine levels less than baseline (1).

20*80kg= 1600 mg

50*80kg= 4000 mg

RECENTLY, IT HAS BEEN HYPOTHESIZED that, during prolonged exercise, an increased concentration of brain serotonin may be an important factor in the onset of central nervous system fatigue (2-4, 8, 10, 27) and a high serotonin-to-dopamine ratio results in fatigue (17). Brain serotonin synthesis depends on the availability of free tryptophan, its amino acid precursor, and the activity of the rate-limiting enzyme, tryptophan hydroxylase (7, 10). Similarly, tyrosine is the amino acid precursor to dopamine (32). These amino acid precursors compete for transport across the blood-brain barrier via the same carrier mechanism (17).

We speculated that, if tyrosine were elevated in the blood by ingestion during exercise and competed for transport across the blood brain barrier with tryptophan, increased uptake of tyrosine and a decreased uptake of tryptophan could result in a lower brain serotonin/dopamine ratio and improved endurance.

Limited research has been done on the effects of tyrosine ingestion on exercise endurance. Struder et al. (30) reported no beneficial effect of tyrosine supplementation when subjects cycled to exhaustion. On the other hand, Chaouloff et al. (10) reported that high doses of -methyl-p-tyrosine improved exercise performance in rats, and the improved performance correlated with elevated dopamine concentration in the brain. Some investigations have shown that tyrosine administration increases dopamine synthesis and concentration in the brain (1, 19, 20), whereas others have shown that tyrosine administration leads to improvement of mood and well-being in human subjects under stress (5, 24). These results raise the possibility that tyrosine administration during exercise could offset feelings of fatigue and lead to improved performance.

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/5/1590


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

About schizophrenia I have never diagnosed anything like this but people that I know usually tell me that I should do some crazy stuff, what they mean is I am too boring. This is their diagnose

About libido I always thought I have high libido but I noticed that I don't recognize any girl who has smaller than 34cc, wears a miniskirt or has the face catherine zeta jones, whereas my friends find attractive things in almost every girl. Libido is also related to high blood sugar levels. 

I tried other stuff that increases dopamine like fish oil, sam-e or tmg but they have adverse effects on cholesterol or homocysteine maybe that is why I felt bad after taking them. I am going to try tryosine. 

Besides my SA has become worse when I started tremble at stressful situations, I always thought it is lack of gaba but it might be dopamine, because my hands are a little bit shaky.


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## dontcare (Oct 6, 2008)

Beggiatoa said:


> I only wish more people participated in these discussions. All you really need is will and google


Ha, it takes a bit more than that. Occasionally I'll open one of these threads and try to read it; but for me it's like reading a foreign language. I used to enjoy heavy reading but these days I can't seem to wrap my mind around any of it.


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## X33 (Feb 13, 2005)

Beggiatoa said:


> You're right on the money! That's how the reaction flows in "normal" situations. Ours is different. How this is affected I honestly have no idea. Wait, just found this:
> 
> The prefrontal cortex. That's where the mesocortical dopaminergic pathway lies.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

For what reason are you prescribed Selegiline? Here in the US, docs won't prescribe a drug because you have a hunch, (however well supported it may be), that it will help you.


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## sawyoushine (Nov 21, 2008)

X33 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> For what reason are you prescribed Selegiline? Here in the US, docs won't prescribe a drug because you have a hunch, (however well supported it may be), that it will help you.


Yes, please elaborate on this. And I dont see where it says one of the side effects is longer life expectancy, all I can come up with is A LOT of negative side effects but they are inconclusive because studies have been limited and there is simply not enough information.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

No one prescribed it for me and I don't recommended it for anyone else unless you or your Doctor determine you can benefit from it. It is after all, a drug and it still has the potential for harm. I guess I'm desperate and willing to try anything. Also, I am using a very low dose which is how it was found to have these effects. I am using it off-label and I doubt any Doctor will support this. That's why I buy it from Mexico  

However, I participate in a life-extension forum (with people far smarter than I am) and they've proven this stuff as safe and effective.

For the same purposes, Tyrosine should work as well.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

dontcare said:


> Ha, it takes a bit more than that. Occasionally I'll open one of these threads and try to read it; but for me it's like reading a foreign language. I used to enjoy heavy reading but these days I can't seem to wrap my mind around any of it.


I used to have this same problem for years! I tried searching for things that would help. I would google "depression" and usually couldn't get past the results. I went on like this for years! I wasn't until I started using Curcumin, rhodiola and magnesium that my focus improved.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

This is a good article about selegiline and life extension.

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/deprenyl.html

The author says that there is an unknown stress factor that lowers brain glutathione and increases aluminum and iron deposition. This in-turn, leads to the neurodegeneration that is seen. That's really interesting. Seeing that Parkinson's is very common now a days, the cause must be a variable that's present in all environments so it has to be either man-made or put there by man. Or, maybe we go back to the idea of a virus/bacteria/fungus. This would be something I'd like to research in the future. I'm sure the answer is out there, you just have to put it together.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I tried toying with the issue of neurodegeneration and wrote about it here. I'm going to add Deprenyl to the list.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ncy-dysautonomia-neurodegeneration-sad-50694/


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

There is a relationship between low dopamine and insulin sensitivity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromocriptine



> There appear to be some connections between insulin insensitivity and dopamine. A company called Veroscience [4] is using bromocriptine ( a drug that increases dopamine) to treat diabetes and obesity, and their website postulates a connection between neurotransmitters and seasonal variation in insulin sensitivity among vetebrate animals.[5] There are also some connections between temperature and dopamine and serotonin production.[6] In addition, new research indicates that patients with diabetes are more likely to develop Parkinson's disease, which is characterized by a dopamine deficiency in the brain.


There is obviously something screwing up our brains. Until we figure this out, anything we do will have limited effect.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

High dose glycine helps reduce the negative symptoms of schizo.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002460.html


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## X33 (Feb 13, 2005)

Hi Beggiatoa and others,
I read that a portion of the mesocorticolimbic dopaminergic projection goes to the amygdala. Here it will dump dopamine. What are the effects of this dopamine? Does it inhibit or activate the brain cells here? If it inhibits, then this could be one mechanism by which increasing dopamine helps control anxiety. (benzos work in part by inhibiting amygdala).
Also, even if it does inhibit, what if it inhibits the inhibitory cells in the amygdala? This would cause disinhibition and cause activation rather than suppression. It would be interesting to know the type of cell the DA projections synapse on.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Treatment with -methyl-para-tyrosine (AMPT), a catecholamine synthesis inhibitor, has been shown to produce pronounced increases in sleepiness and mild increases in negative mood and anxiety when administered to healthy male adults.

As before, AMPT treatment led to increased sleepiness. In addition, AMPT treatment led to decreased calmness, increased tension and anger, and a trend for increased depression. Replacement of catecholamine stores with L-dopa reversed the effects of AMPT and was associated with a more rapid recovery from AMPT's effects. These findings indicate that AMPT's effects on alertness and anxiety are catecholamine-specific. 

So a catecholamine inhibitor causes decreased camlness, increased tension and depression.

I thought catecolamines are the sign of anxiety?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Symptoms of dopamine deficiency:
• Physical – Sugar/caffeine cravings lightheadedness,
decreased strength, fatigue, pallor, diarrhea, routinetask
difficulty
• Psychological – Procrastination, carelessness, decreased
libido, diminished self-image, hedonism, isolation
• Memory Function – Inability to follow instructions,
forgetfulness, inability to process information, poor
abstract thinking
• Attention Issues – Diminished alertness, failure to
complete tasks, poor concentration


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Important Test about Neurotransmitters*

http://www.antiagingnow.com/secure/test_forms/edge_effect_intro.html

My results show that I have sever Dopamine and gaba deficiency. Moderate choline and serotonin.


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

I have moderate everything besides GABA, which is majorly deficient.


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## heymikey (Nov 19, 2005)

proximo20 said:


> http://www.antiagingnow.com/secure/test_forms/edge_effect_intro.html
> 
> My results show that I have sever Dopamine and gaba deficiency. Moderate choline and serotonin.


Could you guys please interpret my results? What does the top charts mean?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Hey mikey

Are you taking any medicine whatsoever it looks much better than mine my gaba was 3 in the above chart. dopamine also very low.

Above chart means how much you got and below chart means how much you are deficient.

I also checked myers-briggs personality test it is also intp. Which is eccentric absent minded professor


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## heymikey (Nov 19, 2005)

I just started taking SJW last week although I've been taking omega-3 since last year for a different reason. I didn't realized people take that too for social anxiety since I saw a thread here about that.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

It is good mikey, you are ahead of me with your result, in a good way

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chr...kinsons_improvement_with_a_single_vitamin.htm

The latest news in Parkinson's disease research isn't some new, patented wonder drug. It's the disease's apparent link to riboflavin, or vitamin B2.

Researchers in Brazil examined a group of 31 Parkinson's patients and found that every single one had a riboflavin deficiency--even though their dietary sources (like liver, almonds, and spinach) were adequate. To fully explore the link, the researchers asked the patients to stop eating all red meat and to take 30 milligrams of riboflavin every eight hours.

After six months, the patients' functional motor capacity increased nearly 30 percent--from an average of 44 percent of normal to an average 71 percent of normal. Tests for riboflavin deficiency had also normalized in all the patients, and there were no side effects except the usual "bright yellow urine" effect of riboflavin. [1]

nearly all individuals with Parkinson's have trouble digesting animal protein, especially red meat, so perhaps this has something to do with it.

At acu cell I noticed that low riboflavin is in the list of anxiety.

Ok I took 1000 mg tyrosine yesterday yeah I am less focused on myself besides this I noticed that I usually walk fast because of the nervousness I guess. But after tyrosine I walk at a steady speed, this is intersting it is not like I cant run but more like I am in the mood of "why to hurry?"

By the way you may want to do the test first to see how your dopamine level is.

If you feel bad after tyrosine or increasing it does not mean you are schizophrenic, you might have adequate level and increasing it may have negative affects.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

I got good results from L-tyrosine, but it seemed to weaken my immune system and I caught a lot of colds so I quit.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

LALoner said:


> I got good results from L-tyrosine, but it seemed to weaken my immune system and I caught a lot of colds so I quit.


Are you sure that was not a coincidence? I could not find any link that connects tyrosine with immunity.

Btw how about N acetyl tyrosine? I checked on iherb people say that much less is needed as it is absorbed easier.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

X33 said:


> Hi Beggiatoa and others,
> I read that a portion of the mesocorticolimbic dopaminergic projection goes to the amygdala. Here it will dump dopamine. What are the effects of this dopamine? Does it inhibit or activate the brain cells here? If it inhibits, then this could be one mechanism by which increasing dopamine helps control anxiety. (benzos work in part by inhibiting amygdala).
> Also, even if it does inhibit, what if it inhibits the inhibitory cells in the amygdala? This would cause disinhibition and cause activation rather than suppression. It would be interesting to know the type of cell the DA projections synapse on.


Amygydala is the fear center of brain right? I found in a couple of pages that dopamine is released from amygydala during stress.

and the release of dopamine in the amygdala were measured over time using methamphetamine-sensitized rats

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conte...essionid=11slvivot25sa.alexandra?format=print

interesting part is *****The above results suggested that delayed dopamine release in the amygdala is a phenomenon strongly associated with the emotional context of conditioned fear stress, and hypersensitivity and vulnerability to stress are at least partially involved with the overreaction to stress*****

Tyrosine definitely works, good find Beggiota.

Try to find a good quality supplement like no calcium or maltodextrin as other ingredients.


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## heymikey (Nov 19, 2005)

Hey guys, which is better in boosting dopamine levels: n-acetyl-l tyrosine or l-tyrosine? What is the average dose for each to see noticeable results?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> Tyrosine definitely works, good find Beggiota.


Actually, you found it.

BTW, N-acetyl tyrosine is garbage..don't waste your money.



> Hepatology. 1995 Apr;21(4):923-8.
> 
> Utilization of tyrosine-containing dipeptides and N-acetyl-tyrosine in hepatic failure.
> 
> ...


Also, I'm flying back to school soon, so I have to take at least a 6 month supply of all my supplements.(pain in the arse!)

Found a kilo of tyrosine for 20 bucks!

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=1560


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

So what is the outcome to get more dopamine so I can stop living this hell SAD has giving me....


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Jrock said:


> So what is the outcome to get more dopamine so I can stop living this hell SAD has giving me....


The body makes dopamine from the amino acid tyrosine and nothing else. Try supplementing with it.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Beggiatoa said:


> Also, I'm flying back to school soon, so I have to take at least a 6 month supply of all my supplements.(pain in the arse!)


You better be online! Your will and google skills are appreciated here


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*All is not without consequence..*

Apparently, you can build tolerance to too much dopamine. Your receptors down-regulate causing you to need more and more tyrosine. This is bad news!

To avoid this, you have to cycle the use of tyrosine. For example, use it for 2 months, then take a few weeks to a month off. This sucks, big time!

I've been noticing the last few days that Tyrosine is not having the same effect on me anymore. Today I increased the dose to 5.2 grams and only felt a slight effect. I'll have to come off this stuff for a while.

What does this mean to you? Well, you wont be social all year around. lol

I wonder if there is a way to circumvent this? I'll look around..


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## radiohead (Dec 15, 2008)

Beggiatoa said:


> Apparently, you can build tolerance to too much dopamine. Your receptors down-regulate causing you to need more and more tyrosine. This is bad news!
> 
> To avoid this, you have to cycle the use of tyrosine. For example, use it for 2 months, then take a few weeks to a month off. This sucks, big time!
> 
> ...


Haha....****. :no

Thanks for the information, even though it's not the best news. So "cycling" or something might help. Is it possible that over time taking L-Tyrosine can increase your bodies natural ability to create dopamine...or absorb it from food?*(I know this makes no sense at all....but wishful thinking can't hurt).

I wonder if the same is true for 5-HTP? Is it meant to be used in "cycles" as well to be most effective?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Radio,

I've been looking into 5-HTP a little more closely after you wrote about it. By the way, what dose are you using? It can't hurt to cycle all your supplements. I always take Sundays off and every couple of months I stop using everything for a while. I just didn't think this was necessary for an amino acid. I am just surprised by how rapidly it occurred. Maybe it was the MAO-B inhibitor I was using.


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## X33 (Feb 13, 2005)

Try a DNRI (Wellbutrin)? It wouldn't be hard to get since docs. seem so eager to hand out SSRI type meds.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

X33 said:


> Try a DNRI (Wellbutrin)? It wouldn't be hard to get since docs. seem so eager to hand out SSRI type meds.


Selegiline has the same function being an MAO-B I (selective for dopamine).

I tried Wellbutrin in the past...made me suicidal.


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## radiohead (Dec 15, 2008)

Yea, Wellbutrin wasn't gave me some anxiety related side effects as well.

As for 5-HTP, I am currently only taking 50mg a day. From what I've learned is to take 50mg the first 3-5days, then increase your daily dose by 50mg every 3-5 days until you get the desired effect. I could imagine taking too much might cause side effects, as I have read a few, so making sure you take it correctly is probably ideal.

I also think it really depends on what brand/company you get the 5-HTP from, like many other supplements. My brother is a supplement fanatic and has tried every 5-HTP out there and he demanded I only take "Nature's Way" brand 5-htp pills(not capsules, which I find weird). Anyway, they seem to be helping quite a bit for me now.

Natures Made 5-HTP Serving size*(2 pills):

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 120mg
Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl) 20mg
5-HTP(i-5-hyroxytryptophan) 100mg


I think the combination of B6 and C help with the 5htp crossing over the blood/brain barrier, but I am not positive. Anyway, I've had positive results so far. Beggiatoa I look forward to your research and information on this medicine, as well as all. You are a great asset to this place.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

radiohead said:


> Beggiatoa I look forward to your research and information on this medicine, as well as all. You are a great asset to this place.


Thanks, I really appreciate that! But I'm actually wrapping things up for now. I have to fly back to the caribbean in 10 days and start school again. I've done nothing but research for the last 5 months but now it's time to focus on school. I will be visiting the board regularly I just don't think I'll find time to do much else.

If you want to learn more about supplements in general, I HIGHLY suggest you start reading this forum.

www.imminst.org/forum

Under health and nutrition, check the supplements section.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Beggiatoa said:


> Thanks, I really appreciate that! But I'm actually wrapping things up for now. I have to fly back to the caribbean in 10 days and start school again. I've done nothing but research for the last 5 months but now it's time to focus on school. I will be visiting the board regularly I just don't think I'll find time to do much else.
> 
> If you want to learn more about supplements in general, I HIGHLY suggest you start reading this forum.
> 
> ...


I would also add http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?act=idx Read threads under Cognitive Enhancers.


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## radiohead (Dec 15, 2008)

Thanks for the links, I've already checked them both out and bookmarked them. 

Begigiatoa, good luck with school and your studies. Hope you still come around and post. 

Maybe I'll have to start doing some credible research on supplements now. Sounds good.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> Interesting thread I found on an apparent dopamine enthusiast


Haha, dopamine enthusiast. That's what we can all call ourselves now.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

zoloft hits dopamine a bit, same with prozac and cymbalta effexor maybe pristiq


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I've been reading about an obesity drug called phendimetrazine. Seems readily available on the net and has potent dopaminergic action. Possible dextroamphetamine substitute?


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

I think high serotonin and low dopamine is the number one causes of social anxiety disorder.

High SE is proven to cause harm avoidance while low dopamine cause anxiety, depression, and OCD-like symptoms (obsessions and compulsions).

The best drugs for SA, then, are Serotonin Antagonists, Serotonin Reuptake Enhancers, dopamine reuptake inhibitors, and dopamine agonists, as well as Amisulpride, a D2 autoreceptor antagonist (releases more dopamine).

Does anyone know if L-Tyrosine does any good??


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

jakeforpresident said:


> Does anyone know if L-Tyrosine does any good??


It is very good once it's inside your brain. I think the most efficient way of getting it there is by taking l-phenylalanine which more easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and then is subsequently metabolized to tyrosine, but I'm pretty sure L-tyrosine is active on its own.


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## BeautifulGunStucknHolster (Oct 29, 2009)

If you lack dopamine you will experience more depression like symptoms; like you dont enjoy normal things like eating or watching tv.

More likely it is serotonin OR overactive amagdala; those are the things I have come across I'm positive it's not so simple tho.


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## BeautifulGunStucknHolster (Oct 29, 2009)

jakeforpresident said:


> I think high serotonin and low dopamine is the number one causes of social anxiety disorder.
> 
> High SE is proven to cause harm avoidance while low dopamine cause anxiety, depression, and OCD-like symptoms (obsessions and compulsions).
> 
> ...


Really high serotonin and low dopamine: where are the facts that led you to this??? You think?


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