# Would you pay £36,000 to be a doctor?



## 20012020 (Jan 20, 2020)

I would post this on the reddit "lost generation" forum but my posts never show up :roll

I'm 31 and I live in the UK. I have two degrees in physics. I have worked minimum wage jobs for all of my life. I've also spent a lot of time unemployed. I've clocked hundreds of volunteer hours in various sections. All of this has led me nowhere in life and I still live at home, unable to get any kind of decent job with decent pay. I've had some interviews for "good" jobs but never quite made it.

Last September I applied for medical school here in the UK. I applied to 2 graduate entry (funded) courses and 2 undergraduate entry (un-funded courses). 

Anyway I've been offered an interview for one of the undergraduate entry courses. If I got in I would have to pay £9250 upfront for 4 years. I would also have to take out student loans for my living expenses. I'm not sure banks will even loan the money, but I would basically have to source £36,000 from somewhere.

So now I'm in a dilemma:

1. Possibly do the course and face crushing debt for maybe all of my life. But I will be a doctor.
2. Remain unemployed, uncertain if I will ever have a proper job and any kind of life.

:afr


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

if there is no easy student loan thing available then I would never get into debt like that. unless I was sure I would be a successful and happy doctor... but evidence of my previous failed career attempts would suggest that to be really unlikely. its too flimsy a hope to get into debt over.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

I wouldn't, you'd have to be 110% sure that's what you wanted to do, there can be alot of pressure & stress in a job like that you'd need to be sure you could handle it.


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## firestar (Jun 27, 2009)

I agree with the posters above: I wouldn't do it unless I was certain it was what I wanted to do and I knew I could get a job afterwards.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

I wouldn't be a doctor if I were paid £1,000,000,000 for it. It sounds like an insanely stressful job. Is it your passion, or are you just looking for a paycheck? If the latter, consider the odds that you won't manage to stick with it and the odds that people don't want their lives in the hands of a doctor who's only in it for the money. There's lots of other trades you can take much cheaper courses in to earn more than minimum wage.


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## Musicfan (Mar 4, 2017)

No personally that's a lot of debt and I couldn't manage a high stress job like that. It doesn't sound certain if you have trouble securing the money. It's really up to whether you have the drive to be a doctor and are willing to have a good portion of your paycheck going to pay off those loans.


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Obviously depends on your temperament as people have mentioned but I imagine you must have thought of that already.

Doesn't sound like a lot of money to me - definitely not in the scheme of things and over a lifetime of working. Assuming you can get a job etc and hold it down.

I used to see a lovely GP many years ago and we became quite friendly. She told me that she decided to become a doctor because she never wanted to have to worry about having enough to eat or somewhere to live ever again. She was a lovely person too - and would let me ramble on and on when I was in a very bad time of my life.

I would do it without any hesitation if my anxiety wasn't so unpredictable.


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## aqwsderf (Aug 16, 2013)

Does the UK not provide loans and grants for students?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Yeah the price of education is ridiculous, it's not worth it tbh unless it's you're ultimate dream career.



aqwsderf said:


> Does the UK not provide loans and grants for students?


Only for your first undergraduate degree I think, maybe Master's as well. And OP already has two.

It's depressing that you can't do anything with a physics degree. Really shows how ****ed society is right now.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

harrison said:


> Doesn't sound like a lot of money to me


That's because, as evident from your posts in general, you've always been extremely wealthy (in terms of income/resources) and have been known to spend more money in a day than most of us do in a lifetime. Someone who has always made minimum wage, like the original poster, cannot relate to your experience of money.



harrison said:


> People pay more than that for a car - it's not a big deal.


To 99% of people in the world, paying £36,000 for a car is not merely a big deal but unthinkably absurd. For most of us, a £2,000 car is a big deal that requires careful consideration and planning (and is unattainable to the majority of people).


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Paul said:


> That's because, as evident from your posts in general, you've always been extremely wealthy (in terms of income/resources) and have been known to spend more money in a day than most of us do in a lifetime. Someone who has always made minimum wage, like the original poster, cannot relate to your experience of money.
> 
> To 99% of people in the world, paying £36,000 for a car is not merely a big deal but unthinkably absurd. For most of us, a £2,000 car is a big deal that requires careful consideration and planning (and is unattainable to the majority of people).


I'm not wealthy mate - never have been. I've had a bit of money here and there but nothing all that special.

That amounts only about 70 grand Australian - sounds like a pretty good deal to me to become a doctor, Wow. You just pay it off.

Edit: you are right about spending a lot in one day though - but that was when I was manic.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

I bet you could buy a Doctor for that.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Of course it's alot of money for alot of people.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

If I thought I could do it I'd pay that in a heartbeat. I know myself though and the first time doing a presentation or speech was required in college I'd drop out and the money would be wasted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Sounds pretty silly everyone making a fuss. Doesn't America have all these crazy student debts where people end up owing 200,000 or something and it accumulating interest?

I think there was a guy on here that owed a quarter of a million ages ago.


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

JH1983 said:


> If I thought I could do it I'd pay that in a heartbeat. I know myself though and *the first time doing a presentation or speech was required in college I'd drop out* and the money would be wasted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same here mate - I did a course on Serepax (Serax over there I think) when I was 25 and then used Xanax to do the presentations for my degree. Otherwise I would have been in big trouble.

I'd do it too - as long as I had some Valium and I was about 25 years younger.


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## JH1983 (Nov 14, 2013)

harrison said:


> Same here mate - I did a course on Serepax (Serax over there I think) when I was 25 and then used Xanax to do the presentations for my degree. Otherwise I would have been in big trouble.
> 
> I'd do it too - as long as I had some Valium and I was about 25 years younger.


I've heard people on here say benzos and a beta blocker got them through presentations. I never tried either to get through one, so I guess I'd want to trial run it before dropping the money on school.

When I went to truck driving school a few years ago we had to perform pre trip inspections of the truck with our instructor and the class observing. It was only 5-6 students, but that part was horrible for me. Can't even imagine the horror of a college class.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

JH1983 said:


> I've heard people on here say benzos and a beta blocker got them through presentations. I never tried either to get through one, so I guess I'd want to trial run it before dropping the money on school.
> 
> When I went to truck driving school a few years ago we had to perform pre trip inspections of the truck with our instructor and the class observing. *It was only 5-6 students, but that part was horrible for me.* Can't even imagine the horror of a college class.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, well we have that in common mate - I hate them too. I used to have to give talks and tours at work years ago and I was always scared stiff, could barely speak. Might be worth looking into that med combination if you ever need to do them again.


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## Mlt18 (Jun 29, 2016)

Even if I did, I probably wouldn't pass the classes needed for it.


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## Eternal Solitude (Jun 11, 2017)

£36,000 comes to about $46,982 USD. That is extremely cheap (by US standards) for Medical School.

I am unfamiliar with how the British Medical accreditation system works but are you planning to go for a specific specialty (e.g : Pediatric, Pathology, Psychiatry,etc...) or just a general Physician?

From a financial point it is a risky endeavor. Specially if you don't finish. Imagine getting in debt up to your eyeballs and then deciding halfway through that this career path is not for you while still being liable for the debt inquired. But if you pull through it might provide with "safe job" which will allow you to live comfortable after many years of hard work.

I'd say that being a Medical practitioner would be particularly difficult for someone with Social Anxiety ( unless you work in the background like a Pathologist in front of microscope) as you will have to deal a lot people in person. People who are in physical and emotional distress. Emotions might run high on them and their families and you will be at the receiving end. A very stressful situation.

My aunt and uncle are both surgeons and although they are both financially successful they live very stressed lives. My aunt in particular would hit the bottle whenever she would lose a patient. This might not apply to you though.

Also silence on your behalf could also be misinterpreted at is best as being uncaring and at its worst as being incompetent. This might put you at odds with your patients and other medical staff.

I don't want to discourage you from becoming a Doctor if this is truly your vocation. I simply wanted to point to you some of the implications.



Persephone The Dread said:


> Yeah the price of education is ridiculous, it's not worth it tbh unless it's you're ultimate dream career.
> 
> Only for your first undergraduate degree I think, maybe Master's as well. And OP already has two.
> 
> It's depressing that you can't do anything with a physics degree. Really shows how ****ed society is right now.


 ^ 10

That is why I don't blame NEETs for being NEETs. Things are getting pretty grim in the Western World. Why toil when you know that you will get ****ed in the @r$3 no matter what. People used to have religion and nationalism to fall back on.Ironically, the system itself has has eroded those paradigms which were use to grease the mechanism of society. So people have nothing to fall back on but trash pop culture and consumption.



















Someone stop the world I want to get off! :flush


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Eternal Solitude said:


> Someone stop the world I want to get off! :flush


Pretty much lol. Although I think nationalism is pretty toxic as well.

I really don't like that some people in this thread bring up America when the OP is from the UK. Just because America is particularly bat**** insane on tuition doesn't mean we should be normalising it.

When I did my degree I felt it was way too much money and wouldn't have if it wasn't a government loan that you only pay back when you're earning a certain amount. This was before they increased tuition fees here too from 3k to 7-9k a year (depending on uni.) And they have so much propaganda before you go to uni to try and get you to go like when I was in school they had all these events I was supposed to go to because they had info on students who are unlikely to go to uni based on their postcode/family background etc.

They tell you all these lies like after you graduate you can get a job earning 31k a year. My friend got a decent job out of uni (well took a year,) and was initially earning like 19k I believe and is still renting a one bedroom flat in his late 20s.

At this point we know it's useless. Most degrees will secure you a min wage job if that because some employers won't hire you still because you're overeducated. I just don't think most can justify it. Housing here is insane, people are moving abroad and turning their cars into homes so they can get some independence lol. Not to mention the public toilets. It's quirky and fun until you realise the sheer reason you find stuff like that quirky and fun (if you do, I personally like weird stuff/decaying aesthetics) is a coping stategy for the insanity of the world. Ie: normalisation of chaos. (in case time stamp doesn't work it's 7:10 - 10:30 minutes in this video.) I kept thinking about how many people feel this strong drive to create and how it helps them mentally when they struggle with mental health issues, and how my own lack of motivation in this area has been a fixation for me for most of my life because it feels very important (more than sex really,) and also thinking about Hitler and how he failed as an artist and how it seemed an important turning point. And I think I get it now. Aside from the drive against consumption, it's transformative properties allow the deferring of necessary social change in the group of people most likely to effect it. But the repeated recuperation  of radical art forms and capitalism's soulless commercialised art forms, leaves people nihilistic and disenfranchised because it's an invasion of their defence mechanism.

My parents bought a house in their 20s (neither went to uni at the start of their career/working life, though my mum eventually did much later just before I did,) and I think people that age struggle to understand what has become of the world they only know via their children so if their children are doing way better than average they have no idea.

Perhaps the most stupid part is that, after all this money employers often continue to complain about how students lack the correct skills. I don't know, maybe do it yourselves then instead of culturally delegating the task to universities?

That's why they need immigrants though, because slaves start to grock that they're slaves by observing their parents lives (and the lives of older people around them.) Or maybe they just see this YouTube video lol (I've linked that one way too many times here but it's so bad lol.)



> Professor Cary Cooper of the Manchester Business School said that he agreed with the report that some graduates lack social skills and the ability to conduct face-to-face conversations.
> 
> "They have been raised on Facebook and texting," he continued.
> 
> ...





> Contrary to these results, official figures released in July revealed that where graduates chose to study strongly influences their employability prospects. *For example, 92 per cent and 95 per cent of last year's Oxford and Cambridge graduates respectively were working or studying six months after completing their degrees. *
> 
> *At the other end of the spectrum, nearly 23 per cent of London South Bank's graduates last summer were unemployed after six months, along with almost 21 per cent of students from the University of East London.*


Go figure.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

But you know on that topic of US vs UK though:






the best part is when she finds out how much healthcare for having a kid is and she's like 'no thanks'

MiLleNilAls ArEn'T hAvIng BaBiEs.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

harrison said:


> I'm not wealthy mate - never have been. I've had a bit of money here and there but nothing all that special.
> 
> That amounts only about 70 grand Australian - sounds like a pretty good deal to me to become a doctor, Wow. You just pay it off.
> 
> Edit: you are right about spending a lot in one day though - but that was when I was manic.


You are wealthier than 99% of people, as evidenced by your regular air travel and hotels -- two things most of us have never experienced because of the expense. I agree you're probably not very wealthy in terms of savings because of the mania, but you certainly are in terms of resources / income, which is what determines your judgment of what a lot of money is. The 99th percentile of income is around $33,000 USD / $47,000 AUD per year and I can't see how you've done any of the things you post about if you're below that.

If you have a 100% certainty of becoming a doctor for the rest of your working life, then yes it's not much money because doctors earn lots. But that's not reality. Reality is there's always a significant chance of failure (failing the classes, failing practical tests, failing to get hired due to poor interviewing skills, or discovering you can't stand the work or burning out), which means trying to pay off the loans while working periodic minimum wage jobs between stints of unemployment. A virtually impossible task.

Would you flip a coin if heads means you're rich and tails means your life is destroyed and creditors hound you until you die? I sure wouldn't. The decision depends on exactly how good the real odds are, which depends a lot on a lot of factors only the person making the decision can guess. It certainly shouldn't be taken lightly, though.


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## 30012020 (Jan 30, 2020)

The problem is there are no student loans for a second undergraduate degree, so I have to find the money myself.

The tuition fees total £36k and the student loans for living costs (I would have access to these) will only be about £4k at most per year in which to live on. In summary I would probably have to find £45,000. I do have a lot of savings, but not half of that amount.

At the moment I am thinking of not going to the interview as I just can't afford the course. I am also still waiting to hear if I have an interview for a graduate entry (funded) course but I suspect I will be rejected because I was rejected last year and the year before too.

In terms of the job itself, I think the course would be the most stressful part. I am very desensitized and can handle a lot. I'm good at putting people at ease too.

Yeah it's ****ed that it's so hard to get a job, even with a physics degree (1st class by the way). The MSc is in nuclear physics and I got a stipend so I didn't pay for that one.


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## EndTimes (Aug 10, 2018)

20012020 said:


> I would post this on the reddit "lost generation" forum but my posts never show up :roll
> 
> I'm 31 and I live in the UK. I have two degrees in physics. I have worked minimum wage jobs for all of my life. I've also spent a lot of time unemployed. I've clocked hundreds of volunteer hours in various sections. All of this has led me nowhere in life and I still live at home, unable to get any kind of decent job with decent pay. I've had some interviews for "good" jobs but never quite made it.
> 
> ...


I was kind of lucky because here in Luxembourg, I would get about 7500 euros FREE per year (for my studies) + about 450 euros/month because I my father died in 2007 and you have the right to a "orphan" pension.

This covered all my expenses for the 5 years I spent in Brussels.

To answer your question, which kind of "medical studies" are you talking about? If you are talking about becoming a physician, than it could be worth it. You will pay off that debt very fast.

It will be difficult tough to get a loan for studies because of your age.

You could still go study in a country where life is really cheap. Like east European countries. You would get away with way less than your £36000.

Medical studies have one positive side : You will very easily find a job. You basically have the guarantee to never be jobless.

But it is also very stressful and you will have nearly no life at all.


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## IwannaMoveAway (Aug 9, 2016)

I would say that getting into 36k debt and having to find a way to support yourself for 4 years whilst studying full time is probably not a good move. 

With the physics qualifications you could easily become a tutor and charge £20/hr.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

20012020 said:


> I would post this on the reddit "lost generation" forum but my posts never show up :roll
> 
> I'm 31 and I live in the UK. I have two degrees in physics. I have worked minimum wage jobs for all of my life. I've also spent a lot of time unemployed. I've clocked hundreds of volunteer hours in various sections. All of this has led me nowhere in life and I still live at home, unable to get any kind of decent job with decent pay. I've had some interviews for "good" jobs but never quite made it.
> 
> ...


Do you want to become a Doctor ?
That is the only question that matters.

Working as a Doctor is a very thankless job. It is NOTHING like the Tv shows make it out to be. It's nothing like Doctor House where you can just sit in your office choose how many patients you want to see and come up with a miracle Diagnosis and spend the rest of your day playing guitar, motorcycling, taunting your friends or whatever other hobbies you have.

The profession takes over your whole life, it's a vocation, like becoming a Priest...it's part of your identity. Once you become a Doctor, you are always a Doctor..whether you are at work or not.

You are no longer a civilian. You cannot hide, shelter or panic when disaster strikes.. *you are expected to serve*.

And...no matter how many facebook memes you may see about "how great doctors are" ....most ppl *can't wait* for the doctor to mess-up....the people will turn on you faster than a light switch


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes, in a heartbeat. I love medicine and it would be well worth it since doctors make big bucks.


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