# Never kissed a girl/boy



## DeeperUnderstanding

How many people on here have never kissed a girl/boy?

I never have. It's really starting to depress me, but I can't help thinking when that happens that I'm still young, and it could happen tomorrow. But it still gets me down sometimes.


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## Mr. Orange

Me!!


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## wishfulthinking

You've never kissed someone on the lips or not at all?


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## DeeperUnderstanding

I've kissed girls on the cheek, but never on the lips


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## Darren

I've never done anything before. It kind of depresses me when I look at people younger that I am with dates and crap.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

You're 18, though. It's much more depressing at my age. At least you have a lot more years to experience things.


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## el33

27 in less than a month.

Never kissed.
Never held hands.
Never been on a date.
Never had any indicators of interest directed at me.

Needless to say, never had a girlfriend, no sex, no whatever.


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## wishfulthinking

You guys just have to bite the bullet and start sweet talking some chicks. Some will look at you in disgust while others will be delighted to talk to you. That's the way it goes it's a numbers game. Talk to as many girls as possible. A certain percent will bite. Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality. That can vary from the quiet sweet guy to the charming life of the party, so don't think you have to change everything about yourself to get a woman. Beyonce could probably dated almost anyone she wanted and she married Jay Z. My friend is beautiful and her boyfriend is not handsome and shorter than her. It's not happening because you're not making it happen.

Go to events that give you something to talk about/approach a woman with.
Like star trek, star wars, anime whatever go to the convention and talk to that princess chick with the buns on her head.
Get into a sport or learn a game and join meetup.com for it. Talk to the girls into the same stuff.
Just want to hit the marker and don't care about a relationship? Go to a club or bar have some drinks, and talk to the girl that is completely faded.

Some girls think awkwardness is cute. She'll think you're nervous over her when you're just like that most of the time.


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## LostinReverie

Never kissed anyone, never been kissed. Although I would question the sanity of anyone who attempted it.


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## matt404

Only once, and that was only about 4 months ago. I'm not really counting it as my "first kiss" anymore, though, since I only did it because I thought I was "supposed to" or "had to" to get her to like me. Not because I wanted to. She also never talked to me again after it :lol.


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## millenniumman75

matt404 said:


> Only once, and that was only about 4 months ago. I'm not really counting it as my "first kiss" anymore, though, since I only did it because I thought I was "supposed to" or "had to" to get her to like me. Not because I wanted to. She also never talked to me again after it :lol.


*gritting teeth with a gasp* Oh my, I didn't know that part happened. 

Well, it's never happened to me either - and don't laugh; it's not funny.

At this point, I could care. If women are that into themselves and their reputation to let me go, that's their problem!


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## Peace99

SilentWisdom said:


> How many people on here have never kissed a girl/boy?
> 
> I never have. It's really starting to depress me, but I can't help thinking when that happens that I'm still young, and it could happen tomorrow. But it still gets me down sometimes.


Most likely more men have never kissed a girl compared to women who I'm sure most have kissed at least one man in their life time.


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## Drella

No, but I kiss my Joe Pesci 8x10 nightly. Eh, I'll count it. It counts. I can't even speak to other people, so unless I trip and collapse onto someone's face with my face, kissing probably won't happen for a very long time, if ever.


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## matt404

millenniumman75 said:


> matt404 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only once, and that was only about 4 months ago. I'm not really counting it as my "first kiss" anymore, though, since I only did it because I thought I was "supposed to" or "had to" to get her to like me. Not because I wanted to. She also never talked to me again after it :lol.
> 
> 
> 
> *gritting teeth with a gasp* Oh my, I didn't know that part happened.
Click to expand...

Thanks Millenniumman! But "meh," it doesn't bother me much. There are better girls out there.


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## Kif

Nope.


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## sno

wishfulthinking said:


> Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality.


Look, i respect that girls have it hard in the dating game, but i really don't believe that guys have it much easier when we're always expected to be the ones making the moves and taking the initiative.


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## el33

Changing your appearance is far easier than changing your personality IMHO, unless you are horribly deformed/disfigured in some way.

Granted you can't change your face much short of plastic surgery, but if you're overweight, you can work out to lose that excess weight. If you're skinny, you can work out to gain muscle. etc. etc. etc.

The process of changing one's personality is far more arcane and convoluted, since you're essentially changing your inner being - reprogramming the very person you are.

In contrast, improving how your body looks is more or less straightforward with clear, logical paths to success. All you need to put in is time and effort.

That goes for both men and women btw.


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## LostinReverie

el33 said:


> In contrast, improving how your body looks is more or less straightforward with clear, logical paths to success. All you need to put in is time and effort.
> 
> That goes for both men and women btw.


Never mind deep psychological issues with addiction and self medicating to keep the slightest bit of emotional stability. Just remove the substances society glorifies and tempts you with at every turn. No reprogramming involved, totally straightforward.


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## el33

LostInReverie said:


> el33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In contrast, improving how your body looks is more or less straightforward with clear, logical paths to success. All you need to put in is time and effort.
> 
> That goes for both men and women btw.
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind deep psychological issues with addiction and self medicating to keep the slightest bit of emotional stability. Just remove the substances society glorifies and tempts you with at every turn. No reprogramming involved, totally straightforward.
Click to expand...

Even in the relative standpoint you describe, improving yourself physically is *still* easier than changing your personality. Explain how you would change/improve your personality/mindset in your scenario then, and how it is easier than say, just getting on a treadmill every day. Even those people here who can't stand going outside their room can still do, say, X number of pushups in complete solitude.

The process of losing weight or gaining muscle is more or less relatively hard science. Changing your personality is in the realm of psychology and emotion, which is far more murky and uncharted territory.


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## Peace99

sno said:


> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality.
> 
> 
> 
> Look, i respect that girls have it hard in the dating game, but i really don't believe that guys have it much easier when we're always expected to be the ones making the moves and taking the initiative.
Click to expand...

so true. We are the ones who put ourselves on the line, not women. Women have it easy. Women just have to choose which guy they say yes and no too, so difficult. I wish as a man I had that same luxury.


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## slyfox

Have never been kissed. I don't see it happening anytime soon


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## LostinReverie

el33 said:


> Even in the relative standpoint you describe, improving yourself physically is *still* easier than changing your personality. Explain how you would change/improve your personality/mindset in your scenario then, and how it is easier than say, just getting on a treadmill every day. Even those people here who can't stand going outside their room can still do, say, X number of pushups in complete solitude.
> 
> The process of losing weight or gaining muscle is more or less relatively hard science. Changing your personality is in the realm of psychology and emotion, which is far more murky and uncharted territory.


Bull****. Changing your lifestyle is changing your personality. You need to reprogram yourself to think and behave in ways contrary to what you're used to. Especially when food becomes an addiction, it is most definitely in the realm of psychology and emotion.

Yes, the actual process of changing your body is logical and simple to understand, but that doesn't mean that it is easy to do.


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## Snickersnack

Never kissed anyone, never dated anyone. Haven't had more than a glimmer of interest in the past 5 years (and I had nice hair back then, so it's not like that brief glimmer proves anything is possible now. Just means I missed the boat when I had the chance.)



wishfulthinking said:


> It's not happening because you're not making it happen.
> 
> Go to events that give you something to talk about/approach a woman with.
> Like star trek, star wars, anime whatever go to the convention and talk to that princess chick with the buns on her head.
> Get into a sport or learn a game and join meetup.com for it. Talk to the girls into the same stuff.


Ah, come on. I'll bet the princesses get hit on all the time-and "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?'" is always a blistering put-down. Really, the people who like the same stupid crad I like are overwhelmingly male, so anyone who shared any interests with me whatsoever would already have a large pool to choose from, at least 2 out of every 10 of which are neither horribly over or under-weight. So it's not like I would have any advantage there. Anything related to the arts or music "scene" is out unless you're in a band and wear skinny jeans and T-shirts with ironic slogans. Or refer to it as a "scene", and complain about how great the "scene" used to be until all the posers showed up. So, basically, niche dating doesn't work. Nothing works.



wishfulthinking said:


> Some girls think awkwardness is cute. She'll think you're nervous over her when you're just like that most of the time.


Really? That sounds cool. I thought agression and the drive to dominate were the only acceptable qualities for men.


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## Derekgnr

Never kissed, never been kissed, never went on a date. No point in really trying cause what girl would go out with a guy with terrible skin?


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## el33

> @#%$. Changing your lifestyle is changing your personality. You need to reprogram yourself to think and behave in ways contrary to what you're used to. Especially when food becomes an addiction, it is most definitely in the realm of psychology and emotion.
> 
> Yes, the actual process of changing your body is logical and simple to understand, but that doesn't mean that it is easy to do.


I think you are outside the scope of the original discussion that sparked my response then, which was:



> Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality. That can vary from the quiet sweet guy to the charming life of the party, so don't think you have to change everything about yourself to get a woman. Beyonce could probably dated almost anyone she wanted and she married Jay Z. My friend is beautiful and her boyfriend is not handsome and shorter than her. It's not happening because you're not making it happen.


All else being equal, without bringing in outside factors like being addicted to food, I still maintain changing your body is far easier *relatively speaking*, than changing your personality.

For both men and women, if you get the "hot body", you'll at least attract attention and possibly get a foot in the door where otherwise you might not. And sometimes getting that foot in the door can be the difference between getting a change at a date or remaining dateless. If you want to get chauvinistic, you could say quite a lot of men are *only* or at least *primarily* interested in a girl's physical attractiveness.

That's not to say it's a guarantee to leading into a successful relationship, but would you really throw away any chance that might help you?


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## srschirm

Derekgnr said:


> Never kissed, never been kissed, never went on a date. No point in really trying cause what girl would go out with a guy with terrible skin?


Hey dude, your skin doesn't look bad from that angle. You could be like me and have acne.

Plus, your face has a nice shape to it.


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## Derekgnr

srschirm said:


> Hey dude, your skin doesn't look bad from that angle. You could be like me and have acne.
> 
> Plus, your face has a nice shape to it.


That's the problem, I have severe acne/scars. And not just on my face.


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## StrangeSpirit

Never.


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## PGVan

el33 said:


> 27 in less than a month.
> 
> Never kissed.
> Never held hands.
> Never been on a date.
> Never had any indicators of interest directed at me.
> 
> Needless to say, never had a girlfriend, no sex, no whatever.


That's pretty much me, except I'm 24.



wishfulthinking said:


> You guys just have to bite the bullet and start sweet talking some chicks. Some will look at you in disgust while others will be delighted to talk to you. That's the way it goes it's a numbers game. Talk to as many girls as possible. A certain percent will bite. Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality. That can vary from the quiet sweet guy to the charming life of the party, so don't think you have to change everything about yourself to get a woman. Beyonce could probably dated almost anyone she wanted and she married Jay Z. My friend is beautiful and her boyfriend is not handsome and shorter than her. It's not happening because you're not making it happen.
> 
> Go to events that give you something to talk about/approach a woman with.
> Like star trek, star wars, anime whatever go to the convention and talk to that princess chick with the buns on her head.
> Get into a sport or learn a game and join meetup.com for it. Talk to the girls into the same stuff.
> Just want to hit the marker and don't care about a relationship? Go to a club or bar have some drinks, and talk to the girl that is completely faded.
> 
> Some girls think awkwardness is cute. She'll think you're nervous over her when you're just like that most of the time.


No offence, but I'm going to be a bit of a dick here...

Do you have any idea what kind of website this is? Do you think that we haven't heard this typical advice before? Do you think guys like us can just snap our fingers and be and act how we want to?

No, girls don't have it harder than guys. Sorry, but it's true. Guys are the ones expected to initiate contact. To us, it feels like "biting the bullet", literally. Also, don't think all guys don't care about what they look like. I'm not obese by any means, but I do carry a few extra pounds, and I don't see how any female could find me attractive, despite seeing a lot of "fat guys" with some damn hot girls.



el33 said:


> Even in the relative standpoint you describe, improving yourself physically is *still* easier than changing your personality. Explain how you would change/improve your personality/mindset in your scenario then, and how it is easier than say, just getting on a treadmill every day. Even those people here who can't stand going outside their room can still do, say, X number of pushups in complete solitude.
> 
> The process of losing weight or gaining muscle is more or less relatively hard science. Changing your personality is in the realm of psychology and emotion, which is far more murky and uncharted territory.


To improve yourself physically, you have to have the proper mindset and motivation. I have equipment, but I don't use it because I don't believe being 30 pounds lighter is going to make a lick of difference in my social life. It's not going to get me out of the house more often.


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## wishfulthinking

PGVan said:


> el33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 27 in less than a month.
> 
> Never kissed.
> Never held hands.
> Never been on a date.
> Never had any indicators of interest directed at me.
> 
> Needless to say, never had a girlfriend, no sex, no whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty much me, except I'm 24.
> 
> 
> 
> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys just have to bite the bullet and start sweet talking some chicks. Some will look at you in disgust while others will be delighted to talk to you. That's the way it goes it's a numbers game. Talk to as many girls as possible. A certain percent will bite. Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality. That can vary from the quiet sweet guy to the charming life of the party, so don't think you have to change everything about yourself to get a woman. Beyonce could probably dated almost anyone she wanted and she married Jay Z. My friend is beautiful and her boyfriend is not handsome and shorter than her. It's not happening because you're not making it happen.
> 
> Go to events that give you something to talk about/approach a woman with.
> Like star trek, star wars, anime whatever go to the convention and talk to that princess chick with the buns on her head.
> Get into a sport or learn a game and join meetup.com for it. Talk to the girls into the same stuff.
> Just want to hit the marker and don't care about a relationship? Go to a club or bar have some drinks, and talk to the girl that is completely faded.
> 
> Some girls think awkwardness is cute. She'll think you're nervous over her when you're just like that most of the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

No offence, but I'm going to be a bit of a dick here...

Do you have any idea what kind of website this is? Do you think that we haven't heard this typical advice before? Do you think guys like us can just snap our fingers and be and act how we want to?

No, girls don't have it harder than guys. Sorry, but it's true. Guys are the ones expected to initiate contact. To us, it feels like "biting the bullet", literally. Also, don't think all guys don't care about what they look like. I'm not obese by any means, but I do carry a few extra pounds, and I don't see how any female could find me attractive, despite seeing a lot of "fat guys" with some damn hot girls.

Yeah I know perfectly well what kind of website this is, a support forum for tips, advice and encouragement for the most part. Would you have preferred if I told him yeah if you don't look like Brad Pitt or have money like Trump, go jump off a tall building because you're screwed? Is that your idea of advice? I was simply telling him the kinds of places that women feel less defensive if someone were to chat them up.

No one can snap their fingers and immediately see change the next day. But if someone changes their perspective to see that the odds aren't totally against them, the possibility for change can manifest into a reality. If he tries to talk to women and continues in spite of bad attempts, he will eventually learn what works for him and get into a relationship. If all he does is complain and doesn't try, he will stay at the weak level of game he is at now.

Yes women get a pass on initiating contact. That is the world we live in. If there was a big rally to change that you still wouldn't see that big of a change in your lifetime, because people are creatures of habit. So it's something you have to learn to tolerate. Just like women have to bend towards what guys like, like knowing how to cook and clean, or looking to an unrealistic female ideal for what is desirable. I can understand how someone that is shy or has SA would have to work harder at their approach than others. But the good thing is women tend to be more likely than men to look beyond the physical, increasing your chances of someone wanting to date you even if you're not the best looking guy around.


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## PGVan

wishfulthinking said:


> I was simply telling him the kinds of places that women feel less defensive if someone were to chat them up.


What exactly is "chat them up"? What I think you are missing is that guys in their mid-20s who have absolutely zero experience with females don't understand these things. When somebody tells me "go chat her up", I have no idea what to do. Nothing comes to mind.



wishfulthinking said:


> But if someone changes their perspective to see that the odds aren't totally against them, the possibility for change can manifest into a reality. If he tries to talk to women and continues in spite of bad attempts, he will eventually learn what works for him and get into a relationship. If all he does is complain and doesn't try, he will stay at the weak level of game he is at now.


Lets be honest, the odds are stacked against guys in this position. With how society views people today, having no experience with the opposite sex in your mid-20s is viewed negatively. There is nothing we can do about that.

How can you learn what works for you when you either never succeed or you cannot reach the point where you are confident enough to try? Confidence comes from succeeding. If you never succeed, either by trying and failing or not trying at all, it only builds the negative outlook you have.



wishfulthinking said:


> Yes women get a pass on initiating contact.


Let me try to understand this...

Women get a "pass" on initiating contact because they are women. Guys who find the anxiety crippling even just thinking about talking to women have to "bite the bullet"?

The fact that you made that "bite the bullet" comment in the first place shows that you don't understand just how crippling this anxiety is to some guys and how much worse it really does get as we get older. I am 24 years old. Some would call me a young person. I feel like I have missed out on a lifetime of experience that I can never get back, and I don't know if I can ever get over it.


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## shynesshellasucks

I kissed a girl when I was 7 if that counts. SA unabled me to have another kiss since. :rain


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## wishfulthinking

PGVan said:


> What exactly is "chat them up"? What I think you are missing is that guys in their mid-20s who have absolutely zero experience with females don't understand these things. When somebody tells me "go chat her up", I have no idea what to do. Nothing comes to mind.


Here you go:

Wikipedia:
"Verb

to chat (someone) up

1. (idiomatic) To talk to (someone) in a charming or affected manner, usually to curry favor, and sometimes flirtatiously with the intention of establishing a romantic or sexual encounter or relationship with that person"

If you need a visual watch a romantic comedy. In two decades you've never seen someone being hit on? Or a man just carrying a conversation with a woman? Some guys may not have approached a woman with romantic intentions, but some have a general idea of what takes place from watching other people do it.



PGVan said:


> Lets be honest, the odds are stacked against guys in this position. With how society views people today, having no experience with the opposite sex in your mid-20s is viewed negatively. There is nothing we can do about that.


If you look at what I wrote carefully you will see that I never said there weren't odds stacked against guys in your position. I said they weren't completely stacked, to the point where it would be useless to try to date. A lot of people wait to date because of religion, or because they're focused on school so it's not always viewed negatively. A guy with too much experience creeps a lot of women out so some guys tell women they've been out with less than the real number. Most women don't care if you've dated before and if she does then she's not the one for you. A woman knows that you won't have baggage from past relationships also. Make it sound like a choice and not like a disease you have and most will be fine with it.



PGVan said:


> How can you learn what works for you when you either never succeed or you cannot reach the point where you are confident enough to try? Confidence comes from succeeding. If you never succeed,
> either by trying and failing or not trying at all, it only builds the negative outlook you have.


The more you do something the more you will be comfortable with it. Say hi to women you pass coming and going from places. Some will smile, some will ignore you, and others will say hi back. But the more you do it the more you will be comfortable opening your mouth to the opposite sex. I'm not saying you will ever be Casanova. Like learning to ride a bike there is a good chance you will look silly for a while, but once you accept the fact that it's just apart of the process you can get on with reaching your goal.

This sounds a little messed up but start out with girls you aren't repulsed by but it wouldn't matter if they gave you the cold shoulder. When you get better at talking to women go for exactly what you want.



PGVan said:


> Women get a "pass" on initiating contact because they are women. Guys who find the anxiety crippling even just thinking about talking to women have to "bite the bullet"?
> 
> The fact that you made that "bite the bullet" comment in the first place shows that you don't understand just how crippling this anxiety is to some guys and how much worse it really does get as we get older. I am 24 years old. Some would call me a young person. I feel like I have missed out on a lifetime of experience that I can never get back, and I don't know if I can ever get over it.


Wikipedia:
"Bite the bullet is a phrase that generally refers to the acceptance of the consequences of a hard choice.[1] It is derived historically from the practice of having a patient clench a bullet in his or her teeth as a way to cope with the extreme pain of a surgical procedure without anesthetic.[2][3]'

I understand you're frustrated with the dating culture and your personal situation, but that phrase was not insensitive and perfectly applies to this situation.


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## Fanciful Unicorn

I've kissed a _lot _ of people in spin the bottle/truth or dare situation.

No one has ever just kissed me though.


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## slyfox

Just wanted to say I support what you're saying wishfulthinking. Many people on SAS could find a girlfriend/boyfriend, if they put in the effort. I don't really put in the effort. I would like to change that though


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## PGVan

wishfulthinking said:


> If you need a visual watch a romantic comedy. In two decades you've never seen someone being hit on? Or a man just carrying a conversation with a woman? Some guys may not have approached a woman with romantic intentions, but some have a general idea of what takes place from watching other people do it.


Well I don't. I don't go out to places where guys generally "hit on" women. I don't watch romantic comedies because they are movies and what happens in movies is not real life.



wishfulthinking said:


> Most women don't care if you've dated before and if she does then she's not the one for you. A woman knows that you won't have baggage from past relationships also. Make it sound like a choice and not like a disease you have and most will be fine with it.


But it's not a choice. Why lie about it? While I wouldn't have baggage from past relationships, I still have the baggage of anxiety, depression and explaining why I've never even held a girl's hand at 24 years of age.

Also, I don't believe for one second that a woman wouldn't care that I am in this position at 24. Most guys who are single at my age go for casual sex, which I have no desire for, whether I could get it or not.



wishfulthinking said:


> The more you do something the more you will be comfortable with it. Say hi to women you pass coming and going from places. Some will smile, some will ignore you, and others will say hi back. But the more you do it the more you will be comfortable opening your mouth to the opposite sex. I'm not saying you will ever be Casanova. Like learning to ride a bike there is a good chance you will look silly for a while, but once you accept the fact that it's just apart of the process you can get on with reaching your goal.


Why would I say hi to random girls I don't know? I hate it when people I don't know say hi to me for no reason at all. It creeps me out. Why would I do it to people I don't know?



wishfulthinking said:


> This sounds a little messed up but start out with girls you aren't repulsed by but it wouldn't matter if they gave you the cold shoulder. When you get better at talking to women go for exactly what you want.


I assume you mean "start out with girls you are repulsed by". I've had this suggestion given to me and I can never understand it. If I "go for" girls I don't want, that's setting them up for sadness and it does nothing for me as it will not help my anxiety around girls I am attracted to.



wishfulthinking said:


> Wikipedia:
> "Bite the bullet is a phrase that generally refers to the acceptance of the consequences of a hard choice.[1] It is derived historically from the practice of having a patient clench a bullet in his or her teeth as a way to cope with the extreme pain of a surgical procedure without anesthetic.[2][3]'
> 
> I understand you're frustrated with the dating culture and your personal situation, but that phrase was not insensitive and perfectly applies to this situation.


I don't need dictionary/wikipedia definitions thrown at me. The comment was clearly geared towards guys in this situation to suck it up, which is insensitive. We're not just shy guys, we're guys who have been socially crippled by our anxiety, and for some us (like myself) it has resulted in severe depression.


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## person86

wishfulthinking said:


> If you look at what I wrote carefully you will see that I never said there weren't odds stacked against guys in your position. I said they weren't completely stacked, to the point where it would be useless to try to date. A lot of people wait to date because of religion, or because they're focused on school so it's not always viewed negatively. A guy with too much experience creeps a lot of women out so some guys tell women they've been out with less than the real number. Most women don't care if you've dated before and if she does then she's not the one for you. A woman knows that you won't have baggage from past relationships also. Make it sound like a choice and not like a disease you have and most will be fine with it.


No, most women will think a guy who's never dated anyone is weird.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

person86 said:


> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at what I wrote carefully you will see that I never said there weren't odds stacked against guys in your position. I said they weren't completely stacked, to the point where it would be useless to try to date. A lot of people wait to date because of religion, or because they're focused on school so it's not always viewed negatively. A guy with too much experience creeps a lot of women out so some guys tell women they've been out with less than the real number. Most women don't care if you've dated before and if she does then she's not the one for you. A woman knows that you won't have baggage from past relationships also. Make it sound like a choice and not like a disease you have and most will be fine with it.
> 
> 
> 
> No, most women will think a guy who's never dated anyone is weird.
Click to expand...

That's exactly my problem. It wouldn't bother me that much if I started dating now, if I wasn't worried about kissing a woman or making out, and having no experience at doing so. Also, possibly freaking her out when I told her that I'd never kissed before.

I also can't stop thinking about all the failed opportunities in high school. Maybe if I hadn't been so shy, I would have kissed a girl and this wouldn't even be an issue. I feel like I missed the boat completely relationship wise.


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## Xtina_Xposed

I've never kissed or been kissed by a guy before. I always wondered what it felt like.


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## UltraShy

Boys: never kissed any & don't want to.

Girls: in total at least 10. I excluded those where it's been too long to recall for sure if we kissed and excluded two more where there was the start of a kiss before having that kiss rejected. No kissing activity within the 21st century though.


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## hypestyle

7/7/08, and I'm still in this same boat.. don't know when it's going to change, if ever.. ah well..


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

I never kissed a girlboy. I hear they have lots in Thailand and Brazil so you never know

**checks bank balance**


----------



## wishfulthinking

@PGVan

I never said talk to girls you don't like, there are different levels of being attracted to someone. Talking to girls you think are kinda cute but aren't your idea of a 9 or 10 is not using someone. 

You're entitled to your opinion. If you think everything I said is BS that's your business. Someone else might get something out of it. If you think you have dating figured out and it's working for you, continue doing what you do. Why don't you tell everyone what you think will change his situation. I can't wait to hear your suggestions.


----------



## PGVan

wishfulthinking said:


> If you think you have dating figured out and it's working for you, continue doing what you do. Why don't you tell everyone what you think will change his situation. I can't wait to hear your suggestions.


So now we're using ridicule and sarcasm as our attitude of the day.

Nice.


----------



## LonelyEnigma

I've never been kissed, been on a date, or been hugged romantically; and I'm 26 years old.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

you know theres a fight going on in a thread when you can mention ladyboys and no one bats an eyelid


----------



## Peace99

PGVan said:


> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you need a visual watch a romantic comedy. In two decades you've never seen someone being hit on? Or a man just carrying a conversation with a woman? Some guys may not have approached a woman with romantic intentions, but some have a general idea of what takes place from watching other people do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I don't. I don't go out to places where guys generally "hit on" women. I don't watch romantic comedies because they are movies and what happens in movies is not real life.
> 
> 
> 
> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most women don't care if you've dated before and if she does then she's not the one for you. A woman knows that you won't have baggage from past relationships also. Make it sound like a choice and not like a disease you have and most will be fine with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it's not a choice. Why lie about it? While I wouldn't have baggage from past relationships, I still have the baggage of anxiety, depression and explaining why I've never even held a girl's hand at 24 years of age.
> 
> Also, I don't believe for one second that a woman wouldn't care that I am in this position at 24. Most guys who are single at my age go for casual sex, which I have no desire for, whether I could get it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> The more you do something the more you will be comfortable with it. Say hi to women you pass coming and going from places. Some will smile, some will ignore you, and others will say hi back. But the more you do it the more you will be comfortable opening your mouth to the opposite sex. I'm not saying you will ever be Casanova. Like learning to ride a bike there is a good chance you will look silly for a while, but once you accept the fact that it's just apart of the process you can get on with reaching your goal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would I say hi to random girls I don't know? I hate it when people I don't know say hi to me for no reason at all. It creeps me out. Why would I do it to people I don't know?
> 
> 
> 
> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> This sounds a little messed up but start out with girls you aren't repulsed by but it wouldn't matter if they gave you the cold shoulder. When you get better at talking to women go for exactly what you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume you mean "start out with girls you are repulsed by". I've had this suggestion given to me and I can never understand it. If I "go for" girls I don't want, that's setting them up for sadness and it does nothing for me as it will not help my anxiety around girls I am attracted to.
> 
> 
> 
> wishfulthinking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wikipedia:
> "Bite the bullet is a phrase that generally refers to the acceptance of the consequences of a hard choice.[1] It is derived historically from the practice of having a patient clench a bullet in his or her teeth as a way to cope with the extreme pain of a surgical procedure without anesthetic.[2][3]'
> 
> I understand you're frustrated with the dating culture and your personal situation, but that phrase was not insensitive and perfectly applies to this situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't need dictionary/wikipedia definitions thrown at me. The comment was clearly geared towards guys in this situation to suck it up, which is insensitive. We're not just shy guys, we're guys who have been socially crippled by our anxiety, and for some us (like myself) it has resulted in severe depression.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what you write, she wont understand because she is not a guy and cannot put herself in our shoes and in our situation out of her own ignorance. End of story. Stop wasting your time trying to explain this.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

I am going to thailand to find ladyboys
I AM GOING TO THAILAND TO FIND LADYBOYS


----------



## person86

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> I am going to thailand to find ladyboys
> I AM GOING TO THAILAND TO FIND LADYBOYS


LOL ROLF ROFL Hahah HA LOLOLOLOLOL.

Good?


----------



## LostinReverie

Ross likes to post when he's wasted.


----------



## Fanciful Unicorn

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> I am going to thailand to find ladyboys
> I AM GOING TO THAILAND TO FIND LADYBOYS


Then I will join you!

I just didn't want to go alone...


----------



## roswell

Fanciful Unicorn said:


> [quote="yeah_yeah_yeah":2ge4z9fb]I am going to thailand to find ladyboys
> I AM GOING TO THAILAND TO FIND LADYBOYS


Then I will join you!

I just didn't want to go alone...[/quote:2ge4z9fb]

WHAT?? Did somebody start a ladyboy excursion without me?!!?! When I joined SAS, I explicitly recall checking the box "Notify me of all ladyboy-related events ASAP." OH! The outrage. Thunder will be receiving an angry e-mail tonight.

Anyways... I call shotgun.


----------



## slyfox

I'm not doing too great with regular ladys. So I guess trying ladyboys couldn't hurt. Count me in :lol


----------



## jellyfish

Snickersnack said:


> Really, the people who like the same stupid crad I like are overwhelmingly male, so anyone who shared any interests with me whatsoever would already have a large pool to choose from, at least 2 out of every 10 of which are neither horribly over or under-weight.


I need to start going to comic conventions. :mushy

I don't really think it's weird if strangers say hi to me. I'm from a small town, so it's pretty common to do that here. I go to school in a larger city, though, and I feel weird around strangers on campus because if I smile and wave, they give me evil looks. :get What are you supposed to do in cities? Avoid eye contact?


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

LostInReverie said:


> Ross likes to post when he's wasted.


I havent drunk in a month. I was just feeling impulsive and was trying to see what it would take for someone to actually notice the subtle ladyboy references I had been makiing 

It would seem that ladyboys are very popular here at SAS. Thats kind of sweet in a really weird way


----------



## LostinReverie

Oh, sorry, I wasn't being serious.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

I was. I havent been drunk in ages and I WANT TO 

Mmmmmm beeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## ardrum

I had some Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA last night. I didn't have any ladyboys to keep me company though.


----------



## person86

ardrum said:


> I had some Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA last night. I didn't have any ladyboys to keep me company though.


You, my friend, have taste. Props. :nw


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

roswell said:


> Fanciful Unicorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> [quote="yeah_yeah_yeah":1ephiifi]I am going to thailand to find ladyboys
> I AM GOING TO THAILAND TO FIND LADYBOYS
> 
> 
> 
> Then I will join you!
> 
> I just didn't want to go alone...
Click to expand...

WHAT?? Did somebody start a ladyboy excursion without me?!!?! When I joined SAS, I explicitly recall checking the box "Notify me of all ladyboy-related events ASAP." OH! The outrage. Thunder will be receiving an angry e-mail tonight.

Anyways... I call shotgun.[/quote:1ephiifi]

Hey I hear there are tons in minnesota, though Brazil looks better TBH.

Now where ARE those hotpants? :con


----------



## Lifetimer

wishfulthinking said:


> You guys just have to bite the bullet and start sweet talking some chicks. Some will look at you in disgust while others will be delighted to talk to you. That's the way it goes it's a numbers game. Talk to as many girls as possible. A certain percent will bite. Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality. That can vary from the quiet sweet guy to the charming life of the party, so don't think you have to change everything about yourself to get a woman. Beyonce could probably dated almost anyone she wanted and she married Jay Z. My friend is beautiful and her boyfriend is not handsome and shorter than her. It's not happening because you're not making it happen.
> 
> Go to events that give you something to talk about/approach a woman with.
> Like star trek, star wars, anime whatever go to the convention and talk to that princess chick with the buns on her head.
> Get into a sport or learn a game and join meetup.com for it. Talk to the girls into the same stuff.
> Just want to hit the marker and don't care about a relationship? Go to a club or bar have some drinks, and talk to the girl that is completely faded.
> 
> Some girls think awkwardness is cute. She'll think you're nervous over her when you're just like that most of the time.


Is all this from your perspective as a female? Do you and your female friends feel this way? Or is it general common sense type of advice?

I'm just curious.

Lifetimer


----------



## isis

Nope. No kisses for me :rain . No dates, no nothing.
I feel like a weirdo for this. If someone ever asks about my first kiss or anything, I'm totally gonna lie about it. :sigh


----------



## SaigeJones

wishfulthinking said:


> You guys just have to bite the bullet and start sweet talking some chicks. Some will look at you in disgust while others will be delighted to talk to you. That's the way it goes it's a numbers game.


sweet talking chicks? :con And then come off looking like a total idiot, no thankyou. There has to be a more proper way of going about this.



wishfulthinking said:


> Talk to as many girls as possible. A certain percent will bite. Guys have it easier anyways, a lot of women don't care what you look like that much, just that you like them and have personality.


How exactly are you suppose talk to as many women as possible? Where are these women located? Most people I see look hostile and unapproachable. They don't want to be bothered.



wishfulthinking said:


> Go to events that give you something to talk about/approach a woman with.


What events are you talking about? Clubs, concerts, and other adult gatherings are generally unsafe.

Ive been living with SA for almost 23 years now. One of the things ive found out is that its impossible to meet people. Most people don't want to talk or communicate. People only look at me in suspicion or disgust.


----------



## CopadoMexicano

people look at me in disgust and the police suspiciously. I would find it greatly difficult to maintain a conversation let alone with my family


----------



## roverred

uh what are ladyboys? Transexuals?


----------



## Coward

I've never even spoken to a "girl" a___a


----------



## ardrum

How do you tell the difference between a girl and boy?


----------



## Coward

what..


----------



## Polar

I've never kissed a boy, but my friend has


----------



## Coward

i fink we shud av shum kind of group kishing event where every1 getsh a kish


----------



## kiss

^ Now that's a face I wouldn't kiss. :no 

I would just like to add myself to the list. I have never kissed (or been kissed) by another person in a romantic way. I am 28 years old. It really isn't any easier for a female who suffers from anxiety and depression.


----------



## colonelpoop

kiss,

it is IMMENSELY easy for a girl to get a boyfriend or be intimate with a man.

guys are so easy. there was an experiment done on a campus in Florida not too long ago where they asked an attractive woman to go up to random men asking if they would have sex with her right then and there. 50% of the men were willing to have sex with her.

they did the same thing again, except this time using an attractive man to ask the women if they would have sex with him. not surprisingly, not 1 agreed to it. when the women were asked why they turned him down, they said they would have preferred to have gotten to know him first and he was far too forward.


----------



## kiss

colonelpoop... 

The key word you used there was "attractive". I have no doubt a woman who feels beautiful and confident would easily be able to find a man in this world. Even if they don't always attract the attention they may want.

Anyone who deals with anxiety and depression are probably lacking in confidence in one way or the other. What I said was it isn't any easier for a female who suffers from these. We're just as terrified as any other human being to allow the opportunity to come within grasp.

*shrugs* I acknowledge that in this culture men are generally expected to initiate - so it'll make things even more difficult for a man with social phobia. This disorder seems to cripple the best of us. I don't believe it is any easier for a woman who experiences the same thing.


----------



## Jellybeanz

What is with SAS telling women they have it so easy and then berating them as liars or insinuating that they're ugly if they don't? And I'm not talking about any post in particular, because these posts on this theme are NUMEROUS.


----------



## njodis

That's men for ya.


----------



## kiss

Jellybeanz, I didn't want to say it either... but I did notice that myself before I actually started posting on the site. I'm relieved it wasn't just my imagination...


----------



## colonelpoop

Women definitely have it easier when it comes to finding a boyfriend.

Our user on here Arkityp, she makes a post at least once a week about creepy guys asking her out. They may be creepy, but men just come up to her and approach her.

If you want ample proof. Just visit our personals section. 75% of all the classifieds are made by men.


----------



## Jellybeanz

Don't worry, it's not your imagination. Honestly, you can't win. If you go out and seduce a random guy to get experience just because you can, I'm sure the guys would think that would be FANTASTIC and would just think the world of you. Right guys? In reality, yes, women want relationships before sex. Relationships take work on both sides.


----------



## Jellybeanz

colonelpoop said:


> Women definitely have it easier when it comes to finding a boyfriend.
> 
> Our user on here Arkityp, she makes a post at least once a week about creepy guys asking her out. They may be creepy, but men just come up to her and approach her.
> 
> If you want ample proof. Just visit our personals section. 75% of all the classifieds are made by men.


I'm sure that means that Kiss is lying then. Silly girl, she has it so easy.


----------



## colonelpoop

No doubt it can be hard for women jellybeanz, they just have it easier.

It's just that men carry the burden of having to take the initiative, which makes approaching the opposite sex immensely difficult. Women are fortunate enough to where they can wait for a man to approach her.

On dating websites, classifieds, craigslist, the vast overwhelming majority of ads are placed by men. More men die single and as virgins than women. That's undeniable.

No one is being belittled or denigrated here, I was just saying it how it is. 

: )


----------



## Jellybeanz

I agree with you completely, it's harder for men and especially men with SA. I don't envy you guys in regards to trying to approach women. HOWEVER, this easy theory is not the case for Kiss!!!!! Does it sink in that it doesn't feel very good when you guys keep telling women who are having a difficult time that it's impossible that's true? It's true for KISS (as well as lots of females here). Mmmmkay?


----------



## njodis

colonelpoop said:


> kiss,
> 
> it is IMMENSELY easy for a girl to get a boyfriend or be intimate with a man.


Dude, do you have any idea how insulting you're being? I'd imagine that if you have trouble looking people in the eyes, making conversation, or on the extreme end, leaving the house, you're going to run into difficulties forming relationships with people regardless of your gender.


----------



## kiss

...thanks, Jellybeanz and njodis. Having someone telling me the last 28 years of my life has been easy is more frustrating than I thought it would be.


----------



## colonelpoop

Sorry kiss ops 

I was just trying to point out that it was easier for women to find a boyfriend and looking back on what I wrote, I greatly exaggerated. I made it sound like they just had to cook a hamburger and the heavens would drop a Chip N Dale dancer in their backyard.

It's hard for you girls, no doubt. So my apologies.


----------



## Drella

Yeah, it's not easy for me. It's impossible for me, actually.


----------



## Jellybeanz

:squeeze


----------



## Jellybeanz

And this one too :group


----------



## ardrum

I'm almost up to the point where I can stomach an emoticon kiss. Don't rush me, people! 

Real kiss??? That's as big of an event as I'd imagine retirement or winning the lottery would be.


----------



## juice

Amazingly I've actually been kissed a couple times, although that was a few years ago when I would actually go out socialize (read: get drunk). I say "been kissed" since it was pretty much just them forcing their tongue into my mouth while I sat there in a state of shock :eyes. Still pretty sad since it was all basically spoon fed to me with no reciprocation, if genders were reversed it'd be considered borderline rape :no .


----------



## ardrum

juice said:


> Amazingly I've actually been kissed a couple times, although that was a few years ago when I would actually go out socialize (read: get drunk). I say "been kissed" since it was pretty much just them forcing their tongue into my mouth while I sat there in a state of shock :eyes. Still pretty sad since it was all basically spoon fed to me with no reciprocation, if genders were reversed it'd be considered borderline rape :no .


I'm suddenly reminded of Nirvana's "Rape Me"


----------



## RubyTuesday

...I remember my first kiss: I was shocked for hours afterwards. I even had a vivid nightmare involving the following imagery: a dwarf dressed as Santa with vampire teeth, a porcelain doll that a little girl wakes up at Christmas to find shattered, the "santa dwarf" bribing the girl with presents only to bite her with his fangs...

Wrote a story about it in Year 12 that my slightly-pervy English teacher was really impressed with.

It helped get me an A+ for my final English score but I was a little traumatized.

I described my "first kiss" to my sister's friends as: "Kiss rape". Since the guy was 19 years old and I was 14. He knew this, since he asked me my age. 

And basically I was too unsure and timid to know how to reject his advances when I happened to be dancing with him.

Luckily I was shrewd enough to tell him: "I may be 14 but I'm not stupid." When he asked that I go with him for a walk/trip away from the party. -The look on his face when I blurted this out was priceless ...and I'm glad now that I had the gall to say it! :yes 

....gees... I was always a little naive, yet strangely acutely aware (in an unconscious instinctual way) of just what potential dangers existed around me.


----------



## RubyTuesday

colonelpoop said:


> No doubt it can be hard for women jellybeanz, they just have it easier.
> 
> It's just that men carry the burden of having to take the initiative, which makes approaching the opposite sex immensely difficult. Women are fortunate enough to where they can wait for a man to approach her.
> 
> On dating websites, classifieds, craigslist, the vast overwhelming majority of ads are placed by men. More men die single and as virgins than women. That's undeniable.
> 
> No one is being belittled or denigrated here, I was just saying it how it is.
> 
> : )


...BUt that's the whole thing: quantity vs quality.

I'd say that an equal combination is the ideal for_ any_ person.

It's sort of ridiculous when men go on about how women have it easier because they're more likely to be approached... What good is being approached if it's fairly random and meaningless?

And if women DO have it a little easier, I'd say that it wouldn't be by much. And that to make such a generalization is sort of silly, being that it's a slightly different story for each individual.

And apart from this: women have their own set of problems. Like the fact that to an extent they are treated as 'objects' -approached and 'chatted up' by men.

It may be flattering to a certain extent -but it is often a very hollow form of flattery. ...And what's more: as soon as a woman is no longer youthful , this sort of attention vanishes. Whereas, many men go on approaching good looking (and likewise, mostly young) women -perhaps well past middle age.

...but you know something: Easy come, easy go.

Likewise: I sort of can't help but *yawn* a little when I hear men complain that it's "harder" for them.


----------



## RubyTuesday

kiss said:


> ^ Now that's a face I wouldn't kiss. :no
> 
> I would just like to add myself to the list. I have never kissed (or been kissed) by another person in a romantic way. I am 28 years old. It really isn't any easier for a female who suffers from anxiety and depression.


...it's not so great. And in fact, it's even often fairly disgusting! :roll uke ...and boring :time :yawn

However: I suspect that this has been my experience since I've never kissed someone I felt true chemistry for. ... :no :rain -And *that* is the true shame!

And in fact, I once used this analogy to describe what kissing was like to a friend: "Like pressing your lips up to a big tentacle of an octopus that's been heavily marinated in beer" (My first kiss was with a guy who had clearly been drinking...)

Otherwise, it's just plain BORING when you have no real attraction to them.

-BORING, BORING, BORING ....BORING! 
...So much so that the third guy I dated, I actually went so far as to forget he was there (I know that's quite bad!!)

He claimed that I was "the best kisser" he'd ever had!...if only he knew _why_!

...Mind you: this was almost a decade ago! :eek :wtf

-eh: screw it! Not going to bother being depressed about it: like I said -if the quality ain't there, then may as well be kissing my own hand!! ...least I'd do it with some passion.


----------



## ardrum

RubyTuesday said:


> ...BUt that's the whole thing: quantity vs quality.
> 
> I'd say that an equal combination is the ideal for_ any_ person.


I have an equal combination: None and zilch.


----------



## RubyTuesday

ardrum said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...BUt that's the whole thing: quantity vs quality.
> 
> I'd say that an equal combination is the ideal for_ any_ person.
> 
> 
> 
> I have an equal combination: None and zilch.
Click to expand...

 :spank :spank ...Stop feelin' sorry for yourself!! :bah

'Sfar as I can tell: you've had better social intercourse with women (and people!) than most people probably get to experience in their life time!!!

It's like you've already experience a Cosmic kind of Orgasm!

...and that is, no doubt, the best kind!

Of course, you are now only searching for more!!! ...for 'the next best thing'!...and that is natural and normal.

But don't count yourself OUT as not having experienced TRUE SEXUAL experience with others!!

..why does it _have_ to be about '(amount of)physical experience' or 'an individual's subjective idea of *quality*" ....!?!!?

What if REAL experience -real joy- you've already met to a certain degree?!! ...within the range of -if not actually more than- what the average person experiences-????!!!!

...I mean: Have you seen how many marriages end in divorce??!!

Do you wonder, whether those seeking happiness more by the way of physical pleasure, end up so happy??!!

...We are, all of us, pretty luckless, and pretty disillusioned about REAL LOVE and CONNECTION.

-It's human.

You -in my opinion- are not so very different from all the rest. -You poor *******!! :lol ...just kidding! :lol

Anyhow: I'm sure that you've had quality. ...I'm sure of it! Only a person with excellent taste would bother looking at Adam twice :b :b ! ...the others just cannot comprehend just what it is that they are missing....


----------



## ardrum

Actually, it was a joke. I don't feel sorry for myself. It does sound like that though in the response, particularly considering it's SAS.

I'm not sure I follow the metaphors though. Hmm.


----------



## Jaded_

colonelpoop said:


> Our user on here Arkityp, she makes a post at least once a week about creepy guys asking her out. They may be creepy, but men just come up to her and approach her.


... I will have to agree with the "quantiy vs quality" issue that was brought up earlier. I'm sure many women view being approached by "creepy men" to be... well, creepy. There's no real value and brings an emptiness to anyone serious about wanting a relationship.


----------



## RubyTuesday

ardrum said:


> Actually, it was a joke. I don't feel sorry for myself. It does sound like that though in the response, particularly considering it's SAS.
> 
> I'm not sure I follow the metaphors though. Hmm.


...sorry, I was a little tipsy I think :con

:blah :blah :blah :roll


----------



## kiss

RubyTuesday said:


> kiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Now that's a face I wouldn't kiss. :no
> 
> I would just like to add myself to the list. I have never kissed (or been kissed) by another person in a romantic way. I am 28 years old. It really isn't any easier for a female who suffers from anxiety and depression.
> 
> 
> 
> ...it's not so great. And in fact, it's even often fairly disgusting! :roll uke ...and boring :time :yawn
> 
> However: I suspect that this has been my experience since I've never kissed someone I felt true chemistry for. ... :no :rain -And *that* is the true shame!
> 
> And in fact, I once used this analogy to describe what kissing was like to a friend: "Like pressing your lips up to a big tentacle of an octopus that's been heavily marinated in beer" (My first kiss was with a guy who had clearly been drinking...)
> 
> Otherwise, it's just plain BORING when you have no real attraction to them.
> 
> -BORING, BORING, BORING ....BORING!
> ...So much so that the third guy I dated, I actually went so far as to forget he was there (I know that's quite bad!!)
> 
> He claimed that I was "the best kisser" he'd ever had!...if only he knew _why_!
> 
> ...Mind you: this was almost a decade ago! :eek :wtf
> 
> -eh: screw it! Not going to bother being depressed about it: like I said -if the quality ain't there, then may as well be kissing my own hand!! ...least I'd do it with some passion.
Click to expand...

... I don't have any high expectations if it ever happens. But I would imagine it being kind of pointless if there isn't even the slightest bit of chemistry... even kind of unpleasant.


----------



## ardrum

I have yet to open my mouth and rub my lips on the digestive orifice of the face of a human being, leaving behind saliva residue.


----------



## Snickersnack

I was hit on by a large mentally handicapped woman last week. She grabbed me by the wrist while I was at Starbucks and asked me if I'd go out with her. Not to denigrate the differently abled, but I guess that was the first time anyone expressed interest in me in at least 6 years-but for all I know she says that to all the boys. I was a little shaken but managed to excuse myself politely. 

I guess that's something, though. I don't want to feel bad as if I'm mocking handicapped people or anything like that.

Aw, man, now I feel terrible. Am I going to hell for that? I never know what to say around handicapped people. She seemed pretty happy.


----------



## RubyTuesday

Snickersnack said:


> Aw, man, now I feel terrible. Am I going to hell for that? I never know what to say around handicapped people. She seemed pretty happy.


...ignorance can be bliss. You can be crazy but happy.


----------



## isis

kiss said:


> Having someone telling me the last 28 years of my life has been easy is more frustrating than I thought it would be.


Right there with you. :sigh


----------



## XxArmyofOnexX

Never kissed, never been kissed... I probably still have time tho, right?


----------



## ardrum

XxArmyofOnexX said:


> Never kissed, never been kissed... I probably still have time tho, right?


Nope, no one has ever kissed or been kissed for the first time once hitting 18. 

Yes, you have time my friend.


----------



## RubyTuesday

ardrum said:


> XxArmyofOnexX said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never kissed, never been kissed... I probably still have time tho, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, no one has ever kissed or been kissed for the first time once hitting 18.
> 
> Yes, you have time my friend.
Click to expand...

 :yes


----------



## MidnightBlu

Jaded_ said:


> colonelpoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our user on here Arkityp, she makes a post at least once a week about creepy guys asking her out. They may be creepy, but men just come up to her and approach her.
> 
> 
> 
> ... I will have to agree with the "quantiy vs quality" issue that was brought up earlier. I'm sure many women view being approached by "creepy men" to be... well, creepy. There's no real value and brings an emptiness to anyone serious about wanting a relationship.
Click to expand...

I agree. I care about the quality. Yeah, I think most or if not all women get hit on creepy men. That would make women get a boyfriend right away? Not really, women don't have it as easy either whether or not they get hit on by creepy men. Some want a good and stable boyfriend and those are not always that easy to come by. I absolutely definitely don't want a creepy guy. I've gotten hit on by creepy men before and let me tell you it's not great.


----------



## ardrum

deadrun said:


> Jaded_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> colonelpoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our user on here Arkityp, she makes a post at least once a week about creepy guys asking her out. They may be creepy, but men just come up to her and approach her.
> 
> 
> 
> ... I will have to agree with the "quantiy vs quality" issue that was brought up earlier. I'm sure many women view being approached by "creepy men" to be... well, creepy. There's no real value and brings an emptiness to anyone serious about wanting a relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree. I care about the quality. Yeah, I think most or if not all women get hit on creepy men. That would make women get a boyfriend right away? Not really, women don't have it as easy either whether or not they get hit on by creepy men. Some want a good and stable boyfriend and those are not always that easy to come by. I absolutely definitely don't want a creepy guy. I've gotten hit on by creepy men before and let me tell you it's not great.
Click to expand...

What kinds of things did they say/do? Or was it their appearance? Or both?


----------



## isis

deadrun said:


> Jaded_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> colonelpoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our user on here Arkityp, she makes a post at least once a week about creepy guys asking her out. They may be creepy, but men just come up to her and approach her.
> 
> 
> 
> ... I will have to agree with the "quantiy vs quality" issue that was brought up earlier. I'm sure many women view being approached by "creepy men" to be... well, creepy. There's no real value and brings an emptiness to anyone serious about wanting a relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree. I care about the quality. Yeah, I think most or if not all women get hit on creepy men. That would make women get a boyfriend right away? Not really, women don't have it as easy either whether or not they get hit on by creepy men. Some want a good and stable boyfriend and those are not always that easy to come by. I absolutely definitely don't want a creepy guy. I've gotten hit on by creepy men before and let me tell you it's not great.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree. If I wanted to just hook up with some random guy to have a casual encounter, then that might be considered "easy", as there seem to be lots of horny guys out there. But that's not what I want. I want someone that I can have a relationship with, someone who is really interested in me and not just in getting laid.

Creepy men hitting on me scare the sh*t out of me.



> What kinds of things did they say/do? Or was it their appearance? Or both?


It's the way they talk/look at you. They give you this look, like there's only one thing in their mind (guess what...) and they're willing to do _anything_ to get it.


----------



## SADone

No and I'm not all that bad looking either its just the SA in me. I dont tell people because it seems pretty pathetic for someone my age.


----------



## bbarn

kissed or have been kissed but never on the lips sigh


----------



## mikium

ME!


----------



## Nihlanth

The problem is, even low-quality encounters boost your confidence/ego a little each time and that is shown by your posts. You say that you only want high quality, but what does that even mean? Id say thats just as shallow as the guys who just want sex. If you dont give those creepy guys a chance to show how they are really like (maybe sex is not all they are after) you are just judging the way that they look at you.

Of course finding a true soul mate is hard for everyone including non-SA people.

But that is not what we SA guys complain about when we say that most girls have it eas*ier*. We are saying that we dont even have the experience of being approached by low-quality mates! You brush that off as being meaningless but in fact it helps boost your confidence and ego that there are people out there that find you attractive. And that is probably what you take for granted.

That first 'octopus' experience was the fist ego boost you had and you realized you could have better experiences than that. so you raised your standards to shoot for a better experience. But if Someone never has that first experience, they will never have the confidence boost to shoot for a better experience since they didnt have one.


----------



## kiss

"Creepy" I suppose is subjective... For me creepy men are not after a potential relationship, they are after sex. My impression is that these guys will bed whomever they can just for the sake of doing it. If it's someone they consider hot, all the better, if not then it's still a roll in the sheets. I've never been flattered by this nor has it ever served to boost my confidence. In fact creeps have always been a bad experience for me. If anything it increases my anxiety about finding someone who won't take this advantage.

Wanting "quality" for me isn't really asking a lot, just for a little equilibrium and not yet another jerk who will bed a girl for _his own ego_ and move on to another one when he can. At least that is the impression of "creepy" in my mind. I am not going to give a guy who comes of this way "a chance". Why would I give someone a chance to hurt me. Which is why I am perplexed by the posts that claim it's easier for a woman because creeps will approach her. Wtf.

Perhaps depression and anxiety would make me more defensive and cautious than a girl who didn't have these as I'd rather not risk getting to know someone who obviously comes of as a creep. The odds of bumping into someone who gives me the creepy vibe who is not purely after sex is rather low. I've talked to guys who do not make me feel this way and feel more secure around them. There's nothing shallow about wanting to protect your heart.

Maybe it is just me or perhaps it is just another one of those things that divides the way men and women think since it is different for both sexes; each struggle with their own unique set of problems (which is why I never really buy into the guys who complain about girls having it way easier). I once spoke to a male friend who said he would love to be "objectified" by women in this way. It's just different on both sides. :con


----------



## homebody117

I've never kissed a girl and I've recently learned that I shy away from all physical contact even if I'm attracted to someone.


----------



## isis

*kiss*, I totally agree with you.

Perhaps I also wasn't clear with the definition of creepy. It doesn't mean "weird" or "different" or things like that. It means (for me) _scary_. _Dangerous_, even, in some situations. And they're *only* after sex. Sorry, I'm not interested in that kind of "relationship" (if it can be called that, which I seriously doubt it).

Since we're talking about how different things are for women and men with SA, I just wanted to say something to the guys that perhaps you haven't noticed. For a woman certain situations can be quite scary. This is not to be taken lightly. The typical example is walking home alone when it starts to get dark and some guy starts saying very innapropiate things to you and stuff like that. But other situations can be scary too and I think that's a big part of the whole "creepy guys scare me" thing that I was talking about earlier.


----------



## Nihlanth

isis said:


> *kiss*, I totally agree with you.
> 
> Perhaps I also wasn't clear with the definition of creepy. It doesn't mean "weird" or "different" or things like that. It means (for me) _scary_. _Dangerous_, even, in some situations. And they're *only* after sex. Sorry, I'm not interested in that kind of "relationship" (if it can be called that, which I seriously doubt it).
> 
> Since we're talking about how different things are for women and men with SA, I just wanted to say something to the guys that perhaps you haven't noticed. For a woman certain situations can be quite scary. This is not to be taken lightly. The typical example is walking home alone when it starts to get dark and some guy starts saying very innapropiate things to you and stuff like that. But other situations can be scary too and I think that's a big part of the whole "creepy guys scare me" thing that I was talking about earlier.


I agree,

A womans experience is certainly quite a bit scarier than a man's when it comes to things like that.

So each sexes' dating situations are too different to compare I guess. :stu


----------



## homebody117

Nihlanth said:


> I agree,
> 
> A womans experience is certainly quite a bit scarier than a man's when it comes to things like that.
> 
> So each sexes' dating situations are too different to compare I guess. :stu


This is one thing that has me confused from my last experience. On the first date she said she moved in with her last boyfriend and didn't last a week because he got too physical.

Two dates later she says she needs someone who shows affection.

Enough to make me wish humans were asexual.


----------



## isis

homebody117 said:


> This is one thing that has me confused from my last experience. On the first date she said she moved in with her last boyfriend and didn't last a week because he got too physical.
> 
> Two dates later she says she needs someone who shows affection.
> 
> Enough to make me wish humans were asexual.


Well I don't know this woman so I'm just guessing here, but being too physical and showing affection are two very different things. By "he was being too physical" she probably meant that he was only into sex, or that he was too aggresive about it. Showing affection is not only something physical! It can be, but when it comes to affection you have to be much sweeter. It can also be a nice gesture, a kind word, a sweet kiss or a smile.


----------



## Snickersnack

homebody117 said:


> Enough to make me wish humans were asexual.


We could reproduce by splitting in half, creating two tiny clones of the original. How great would that be?


----------



## hypestyle

hmm..


----------



## subzero0

me neither. ****, i've been horny, er, sexually frustrated for 18 years. but i guess i can wait a little bit longer, not too long though.


----------



## ah_bon

Me... I've never kissed one. I came close to one time :sigh


----------



## JaiUnSoucis

Peace99 said:


> so true. We are the ones who put ourselves on the line, not women. Women have it easy. Women just have to choose which guy they say yes and no too, so difficult. I wish as a man I had that same luxury.


man i totally agree with you. i've had many girls i KNOW liked me but because of SA i couldnt get the guts to talk to them... if women were the ones that are supposed to be aggresive, things would be a hell of a lot easier for me...
man :-(


----------



## JaiUnSoucis

RubyTuesday said:


> -eh: screw it! Not going to bother being depressed about it: like I said -if the quality ain't there, then may as well be kissing my own hand!! ...least I'd do it with some passion.


i beg to differ... in my opinion making out with someone else even if you don't have chemistry with them... is a lot more satisfying than kissing your hand.. i mean it's sexually satisfying if nothing else! unless they are unnattractive ofcourse... but then, why would you be kissing them in the first place?


----------



## Mr. Orange

monstermo44 said:


> i beg to differ... in my opinion making out with someone else even if you don't have chemistry with them... is a lot more satisfying than kissing your hand.. i mean it's sexually satisfying if nothing else! unless they are unnattractive ofcourse... but then, why would you be kissing them in the first place?


:drunk


----------



## IcedOver

Yup, this is me too. I'm 32 and I've never kissed a woman and I've actually never even been on a date or attempted to ask a woman on a date. Oh, well.


----------



## millenniumman75

IcedOver said:


> Yup, this is me too. I'm 32 and I've never kissed a woman and I've actually never even been on a date or attempted to ask a woman on a date. Oh, well.


As I may have posted eariler....you are NOT the only one here who is 29+ in this particular situation. We need to band together and support each other more than these whippersnappers anyway!


----------



## RubyTuesday

monstermo44 said:


> i beg to differ... in my opinion making out with someone else even if you don't have chemistry with them... is a lot more satisfying than kissing your hand.. i mean it's sexually satisfying if nothing else! unless they are unnattractive ofcourse... but then, why would you be kissing them in the first place?


Nup! Sorry dude. I don't operate that way. ...I find it near impossible to get turned on by someone with whom the chemistry isn't really there. Two of the three guys I kissed (the other I don't count: he was a big mistake, being that I was 14 at the time and he was 18 and a complete and total aggressive sleazebag) were attractive. My sister really liked the first one. And all of them were when I was before the age of 21.

- I can't be attracted to someone who is just good looking. I get bored too quickly with only this. And I hate the idea of having to fake being attracted to them just for the "physical thrill" ...i tried that one time when I was 21 and bored. And I was still bored after that.

...like I said, I'd rather kiss my own hand. No offense, but kissing someone I don't feel chemistry with (and for me it can't be just about looks!!) is akin to masturbation; and I figure if I'm going to effectively masturbate, may as well do it real justice.


----------



## whiterabbit

I feel like I should still be in the same group as those who have never been kissed because it seems so ridiculous to me that I have. Twice even. And both occasions come joint top as the most awkward and embarrassing moments of my life.


----------



## SaigeJones

Ive never been kissed either and I never will. I am convinced that there is something inherently wrong with my body to the point where kissing or touching seems down right inappropriate and disgusting. Every time I imagine kissing a girl, I imagine her curling away in disgust.

I just can't see myself in that light.


----------



## creativedissent

me!  i'm not ashamed at all. I have faith that I won't die of shame if I never do for the rest of my life.


----------



## shysweetypie

I never have lol. Not even on the cheek, hell i don't think i ever hugged a boy....maybe i did when i was younger but i dont remember...im 16 btw


----------



## kiirby

Nope. Got over the shame now, though.


----------



## Batgirl

I've only kissed one guy. It never really mattered when i got my first kiss, what mattered to me the most is who i kissed. I want to kiss a guy i really love. Thats all i really care for. I might as well have gotten my first kiss at 30. I just happened to meet someone and fall inlove at a young age.


----------



## sas111

It will come soon , mabe even when your old enough to go to bars & you feel more comfortable while drinking ... that's how I gots mah first kiss ... I was crazzy drunk that day, but If I hadn't then I don't think I could say I kissed a guy. ( 16 though )


----------



## Lonelyguy

35 and nothing. Its a horrible feeling...its extremely depressing and painful to have never experienced it and to live with such a complete lack of intimacy in my life. About the only time I ever get touched by the opposite sex is when the cashier's hand brushes against mine while handing me my change.


----------



## Peter Attis

Never kissed a girl, not necessarily too broken up about it, though. Kissing is really gross when you think about it, since you're basically spitting in someone's mouth, and I'm pretty germophobic, so it's not too much of a loss.


----------



## disarmonia mundi

wishfulthinking said:


> You guys just have to bite the bullet and start sweet talking some chicks.


At times I ca nt\\eve n physically squeak out a 'hi', not just girls... cashiers, passersby, it's a mental block that won't break... if I could write everything my life would be a HELL of a lot easier. I may as well pretend to be deaf. I dont know how to 'sweet talk', where do people learn it, from observation? I've never had any peers to observe.



wishfulthinking said:


> Some will look at you in disgust while others will be delighted to talk to you


One step forward, a h8ndred steps back....my hypersensitivity is going to be the end of me one day, those who have seen me react woulld likely agree

editgdfgdfgdfg



> Some girls think awkwardness is cute.


NO, timidness is a FEMININE trait, endearing to some males, but the single biggest turn off to females. **** I can't even express my awkwardness to the world, because nothing but silence comes out... I want to feel like the man in a relationship not some neurotic b1tch's pet "project", you get me? One brief relationship and it was one of those, in my teens, and to answer the OPs question no I have never kissed in spite of this. Yes I had a chance and blew it. Being sober at the time, and sober equating with being an anxious little ***** was the culprit.

"Cute"..you must mean. like a helpless newborn



> Just want to hit the marker and don't care about a relationship? Go to a club or bar have some drinks, and talk to the girl that is completely faded.


1st of all I have far too many physical (nothing I can change) insecurities to do anything outside of an understanding relationship. Never been to a club or bar, I look like I'm 15 (actually in my 20's) ... no matter ..but going to a club/bar for my first time ever, I dont' have the slightest clue what to expect or do, I would be entirely alone and I can't gather the courage to do it for these reasons. Has anybody else here gone to a club/bar for the first time ever, completey alone? Did you sit in the corner, make failed attempts at small talk, then slink out the door in defeat, or did something exciting happen???



> Guys have it easier anyways


Check again, buddy. :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash

See this self-defeatist attitude I got going, it's another thing I need to make **** off. This is what it takes to die alone and I managed it... excuse the lack of coherency if there is one I can't even tell right now

Edit: disregard the above... above all seems stupid and petty right now....


----------



## markx

Lonelyguy said:


> About the only time I ever get touched by the opposite sex is when the cashier's hand brushes against mine while handing me my change.


Do you ever pay with a handful of small change and give it to the cashier by pouring the coins into her hand, just so the back of your hand will touch her hand for a brief moment...?

Err, no, me neither. :blush


----------



## percyblueraincoat

*hmm*

*NO, timidness is a FEMININE trait, endearing to some males, but the single biggest turn off to females. **** I can't even express my awkwardness to the world, because nothing but silence comes out... I want to feel like the man in a relationship not some neurotic b1tch's pet "project", you get me? One brief relationship and it was one of those, in my teens, and to answer the OPs question no I have never kissed in spite of this. Yes I had a chance and blew it. Being sober at the time, and sober equating with being an anxious little ***** was the culprit.

"Cute"..you must mean. like a helpless newborn*

Okay, probably best to stop the psychological and emotional verbal self harm there. Timidness is not automatically a feminine trait. Unless we're operating from daft perceptions of femininity from the Victorian era. Different people go for different things. You appear to want to be some kind of "alpha" male. But the truth of an alpha male would be becoming more of who you are not less.

*1st of all I have far too many physical (nothing I can change) insecurities to do anything outside of an understanding relationship.*

You can't change the insecurity? You can't become less secure in the insecurity?

* Never been to a club or bar, I look like I'm 15 (actually in my 20's) and can't drink for medical reasons... no matter there's always G/benzos/stims...but going to a club/bar for my first time ever, I dont' have the slightest clue what to expect or do, I would be entirely alone and I can't gather the courage to do it for these reasons.*

But you have the courage and conviction to stand behind the belief that those things can and do hold you back?

* Has anybody else here gone to a club/bar for the first time ever, completey alone? Did you sit in the corner, make failed attempts at small talk, then slink out the door in defeat, or did something exciting happen???*

I've been to bars, clubs and pubs by myself from time to time. Sometimes I did sit in the corner, sometimes I chatted to the bar staff, sometimes I ended up dating the bar staff...other times I insulted the wrong football team and had to make a sharp exit (joke) but nothing horrible happened so far.


----------



## Music Man

LonelyEnigma said:


> I've never been kissed, been on a date, or been hugged romantically; and I'm 26 years old.


Same but 22.

I hope it will change before I leave uni, at least a hug or holding hands.


----------



## Dark Drifter

Hello my name is Daniel, I'm a month shy of 18 and I've never kissed a girl. "Hi Daniel."

But aside from that, I never had and I get the feeling I never will, especially with everyone at my high school alway rubbing in my face whether they randomly bring up their first kiss just to irk me or to just full-on make out with their little companion right in front of me as a reminder of what I don't have. I've sort of grown to accept that I might never to kiss a girl considering most girls think I'm repulsive. I'm shy, timid, I'm not physically strong, I'm not good looking, I'm everything a girl doesn't want in a boyfriend. While I've accepted that fact, it doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I'm starting to tear up just reminding myself of why I chose to give up.


----------



## percyblueraincoat

*hmm*

* I've sort of grown to accept that I might never to kiss a girl considering most girls think I'm repulsive. I'm shy, timid, I'm not physically strong, I'm not good looking, I'm everything a girl doesn't want in a boyfriend. While I've accepted that fact, it doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I'm starting to tear up just reminding myself of why I chose to give up.*

Most girls think you're repulsive? How do you know this? Shyness is a behaviour. You were less than shy about saying you were shy. Timid is also a behaviour. You must have some physical strength and you've certainly got strength in your conviction that all this negative stuff you think about yourself is true. And you're everything a girl doesn't want in a boyfriend? Really? And how do you know what all girls want in a boyfriend?

You chose to give up based on a belief system and a bunch of fears. Not on a fact or any facts.

Beware the power of belief and beware beliefs about what others believe.

I used to believe pretty much everything you've listed in your post about myself. Still catch myself doing it sometimes. And I've dated, I've had relationships, kissed girls, had sex etc. That's not me bragging. That's pointing out that negative beliefs are simply beliefs and you can't always trust the thoughts you think about yourself.


----------



## stranger25

Whoever said guys have it easier, you are absolutely wrong. The girls here have nothing to worry about. All of the guys here though (including myself), let's just hope miracles will happen in our future (or now).


----------



## Dark Drifter

joinmartin said:


> * I've sort of grown to accept that I might never to kiss a girl considering most girls think I'm repulsive. I'm shy, timid, I'm not physically strong, I'm not good looking, I'm everything a girl doesn't want in a boyfriend. While I've accepted that fact, it doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I'm starting to tear up just reminding myself of why I chose to give up.*
> 
> Most girls think you're repulsive? How do you know this? Shyness is a behaviour. You were less than shy about saying you were shy. Timid is also a behaviour. You must have some physical strength and you've certainly got strength in your conviction that all this negative stuff you think about yourself is true. And you're everything a girl doesn't want in a boyfriend? Really? And how do you know what all girls want in a boyfriend?
> 
> You chose to give up based on a belief system and a bunch of fears. Not on a fact or any facts.
> 
> Beware the power of belief and beware beliefs about what others believe.
> 
> I used to believe pretty much everything you've listed in your post about myself. Still catch myself doing it sometimes. And I've dated, I've had relationships, kissed girls, had sex etc. That's not me bragging. That's pointing out that negative beliefs are simply beliefs and you can't always trust the thoughts you think about yourself.


Basically since they all give me the impression of not wanting to be around me. Or well, I shouldn't say "all," but a lot do. One girl was actually "nice" enough to tell me everything that she finds wrong with me, including my big nose, my glasses, my ugly face, my "fat" and so on. They tell me about wnating a guy who's lean, athletic, has great eyes, or whatever. I'm sort of flabby, I'm a nerd, and I just have regular brown eyes, nothing amazing about that considering how common brown is, especially where I live.

And I am not that physically strong, I'm terrible at a lot of sports and it's not like I'm like other guys who lift like 20 pounds a day, I sometimes have trouble lifting even 10 pounds a day. And especially since I started losing weight, my arms actually look a lot thinner. One girl I'm friends with tells me about how she likes guys with strong arms... I guess cross me off her list, as if I was even on it.

I "know" because they sit down in front of me and go on about their dream guys and whatever qualities he has, and most of their stories all sound the same. I don't fit that bill to any extent. Some girls think of me only as a friend, but nothing more. They don't want to be romantically involved with me at all, and the biggest insult of all is calling me a "nice" guy. So I guess I'm like that stereotypical nice guy friend every other girl has who they talk to about stuff but isn't allowed to touch them (no, not like that sicko) or kiss them or whatever and just be there as a consultant. And in some cases, I have been a consultant, nothing more.

I look at some guys who do have girlfriends and then at myself. I can't compare to them. Be like saying "Which is faster, a ferrari or a tricycle?" Some girls don't even give me a chance. Some I try saying hello and they ignore me. One girl actually turned away from me when I tried to say hello to her. And some girls I've even exchanged numbers with and talk to in real life a lot actually forget who I am, so I just click them "good-bye," seeing as there's no point carrying on any sort of relationship with them whethetr it be as friends or companions.

I guess I've just lost a lot of faith in myself, especially after this one girl tricked me into falling for her only so she could stand me up and kick me aside after refusing to "be seen with a loser" like me. In fact, that's what some girls have actually called me, even to my face: a loser.


----------



## Kennnie

im blessed with decent looks and swagger but that doesnt me anything if you aint got the guts to make a move, so many lost opportunities


----------



## Some Russian Guy

Lonelyguy said:


> 35 and nothing. Its a horrible feeling...its extremely depressing and painful to have never experienced it and to live with such a complete lack of intimacy in my life. About the only time I ever get touched by the opposite sex is when the cashier's hand brushes against mine while handing me my change.


same here


----------



## Pinball Wizard

Yea, I've never done anything like that, on the cheek i think. I've often assumed women were taking the piss if they talked to me in that way if they rarely did (some I know were). I mean I don't consider myself unattractive, though I have a jaw misalignment which I'm currently undergoing treatment to fix. It was always a low confidence issue, I just wait and wait untill it's too late and the girls i like are taken.


----------



## miminka

LostInReverie said:


> *Never kissed anyone, never been kissed.* Although I would question the sanity of anyone who attempted it.


Same with me.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

stranger25 said:


> Whoever said guys have it easier, you are absolutely wrong. The girls here have nothing to worry about. All of the guys here though (including myself), let's just hope miracles will happen in our future (or now).


The girls here have just as much to worry about as the guys do...we all suffer from social anxiety.
If a girl who suffers from social anxiety gets hit on a lot, what makes you think she enjoys it? By definition, she's probably pretty damn anxious about it...


----------



## Same Difference

Women have to deal with periods, pregnancies, menopause, uncomfortable bras, makeup, having to shave their legs, sexism, being ruthlessly judged based on looks alone, and being treated like 3rd class citizens in most parts of the globe. Also, female circumcision, 'nuff said. 

Having to make the first move is hardly that big of a disadvantage.


----------



## Paper Samurai

Same Difference said:


> Women have to deal with periods, pregnancies, menopause, uncomfortable bras, makeup, having to shave their legs, sexism, being ruthlessly judged based on looks alone, and being treated like 3rd class citizens in most parts of the globe. Also, female circumcision, 'nuff said.
> 
> Having to make the first move is hardly that big of a disadvantage.


Exactly, it's a more of an apples and oranges comparison. Being male has it pros and cons and being female has it's pros and cons.
It's a human tendency to lose track of the big picture when things aren't going our way in pretty much anything it would seem - and I think we're all guilty of it from time to time.


----------



## kosherpiggy

eighteen-year-old kissless virgin


----------



## PaFfanatic

I haven't


----------



## Dark Drifter

joinmartin said:


> This girl offered her opinion. I don't know what her motives or intentions were but she doesn't govern the universe. You're in a situation where you sound as if you've not even got faith in the colour of your own eyes. Some girls like brown eyes. Some girls go bonkers over nerds. Do you think my blue eyes are somehow better than your brown eyes? I've seen women dating guys of all sizes and shapes. I appreciate how hard this has been for you. But one woman's ideas about what is "wrong" with you does not sum you up as a person. Unless you let it.
> 
> So, you want to be on her list? She likes guys with strong arms? And? I'm guessing that's not the full list of what she looks for in a guy. She's your friend so be careful on this one but if you like her then see how she feels. Again, carefully as you will need to balance what you're prepared to lose in terms of the friendship.
> 
> I'm guessing a lot of guys would have trouble living up the "ideal man" things some girls come out with. Heck, many women would have trouble living up the "ideal women" things guys come out with. Just because the stories sound the same doesn't mean they are. I know girls who love the muscles look, girls who don't, girls who are sexually attracted to men with bald heads...all different types.
> 
> I got caught up in this recently and it took a female friend of mine to point out how stupid I was being and what I was possibly risking. Having girls see you as a friend does not make you unattractive or any less of a man. Girls can be your friend and think you're attractive and not fancy you or stuff can come from friendships or whatever. But the "just friends thing" has been taken by the dodgy pick up artist people and made into some kind of insult. Oh, she doesn't want to sleep with you so she's suddenly stopped caring about you and doesn't respect you.
> 
> No. Coming from your friends, that's one heck of a compliment. I appreciate it may make you feel like you're not desirable to women. But that is probably not their intention.
> 
> This has nothing to do with whether you're a nice guy or good guy or not. If you don't want to be "consultant" or whatever, make that clear and set that boundary. But this is an confidence issue. Seriously, break out of the pick up artist thinking crap and the "oh, nice guys finish last" drivel and the ridiculous social Darwinism inspired "alpha male" stuff. This is a positive thing. I have friends who are girls. And all of those friendships are valuable to me for their own sake. But I've often walked into a club with these friends and seen other girls in there look over at me. Constantly broadcasting "social" guy and not "guy on the pull".
> 
> My girlfriend at university was friends with me before we started dating. Doesn't always happen with friendships but things either grow out of friendships or they don't. If they don't, that's not an insult to you. I know a lot of guys get this idea in their head that being the "good guy" is some kind of turn off or having girls think of you as a friend is somehow an insult or that you're a loser...yeah...because girls spend all their time being mates with losers. If you're a good guy, get yourself some confidence and realise that, if these girls are being friends with you (and really are your friends) then they see a lot of good in you and so will other women who may be interested in you romantically.


Just so you know, this girl has a history of disliking me, and I mean DISLIKING me, and I know. She's flipped me off, she's literally shoved me out of the way like I'm not even there, she's insulted the way I speak, she's rude towards me... so her motives are negative ones as far as I can see. She's even told me she dislikes me, although not in those exact words. Not sure what I ever did to make her dislike me so much, I seldom talk to her or anything. And where I live, brown is very common, so it is nothing all that special. Plus in any consolation, I seem to like blue eyes... my "Queen" as my friends call her has very pretty blue eyes, but she's just pretty overall, I like her...

no, it isn't her full list, I've had a glimpse at her full list... or at least so I'd think. She's also got eyes, hair, things liek that on her list. And in that case, I don't think I'd want to be on her list anyway. She called me "sweet," but that doesn't really mean anything considering most girls I know like rude and abusive guys, not those who are nice and treat girls with integrity. And I don't really like her in that way, but it's one of those things that got me thinking one day about what it is girls find attractive in guys. So no, I don't want to be on that imaginary list of guys she has, but it got me to thinking is all. For some reason, it's little things like this that make me feel I'm not someone's "ideal" person. I know it shouldn't bother me, but it just does and I wish I knew why.

I almsot wonder if there is something wrong with me. Sure, girls like me... but not in that way. "I'd date you if I wasn't lesbian." Is that supposed to make me feel better or is it supposed to make me go shoot myself for being born a guy? Plus this came from another girl who doesn't seem to like me all that much, so I doubt she was even telling me the truth. And for me, it's also hard to see if they are telling me the truth, back when I wasn't as "ugly" as I am now, I'd have girls come to me in packs telling me "so and so likes me" or something. Is she so nervous that she can't tell me or is it another one of those tricks where the girls randomly pick a friend's name and go up to some unsuspecting guy and tell him that friend likes him so he'll go talk to her and make a fool of himself? I've had that happen before, I don't want to live through it again. At the same time, I almost think I might have broken some innocent girl's heart because something like this happened and I didn't believe them.

And as for "nice," I actually posted a topic in here where I metioned that, two girls told me the opposite. They told me that it basically is meant to tell me that there won't be anything between me and whoever said that to me. They told me it was an insult to a degree. One girl even told me to "go make yourself attractive." Yeah, I'll go tear off my face, replace it with Brad Pitt's face and then get inside my muscle man suit and drink something to change my voice. I'd go find the actual posts/PMs if you want more proof? As of late, I've started to get the idea girls won't think of me that way, especially since I can't meet their standards... like not being born a girl.

I think it does lie in my confidence, I lost a whole lot of it in my middle school years after so many times of getting bullied or having my heart broken to the point that I almost HATE myself. And of course, "if you don't love yourself, then who else will?" Although I don't let it show that I hate myself. Even then, no one listens when I try to open up, not even my mother. She'd jsut tell me I'm an idiot and send me away to go cry in a corner, which I actually did a few nights ago. I see girls looking at me... but they mostly do laughing and some pointing. That hasn't helped my confidence much either. One thing I find ironic is how my mother tells me she wants to build my confidence, but she goes on and lowers it instead. Something funny I got to thinking of the other day.

Probably, but they make it seem so easy. There is this one guy I call "the womanizer" who I'm sort of friends with. He tries to give me dating tips (he even gave me a friggin ebook which I lost like a long time ago without reading) and he knows the girls I like... which is why he goes and flirts with every single one of them first, so that I look like a loser when I try anything. This guy thinks he's TOO good of a person, like he's the gift to this earth or something. But he's sort of dim, too, no offense to him.

It does, but it seems like a lot of girls have issues with me. One girl I tried to talk to not only ignores me, but makes like these faces at me, almost as if to say "Why are you talking to me, worm?" I don't talk to her anymore safe to say... not like we ever spoke to begin with, right? Again, these little things don't help my thinking. I know it shouldn't bother me, but it does and I wish I knew why.

I wish I could see it that way, but it seems rare that a girl might see something in me. Sort of why I recently decided to just "throw in the towel" as that saying goes and just forget about dating or anything. I honestly want to believe that... I want to believe. But it looks like I lost so much faith in myself, it isn't possible for me. Despite all the "positive" things girls have told me (again, are they lying or are they for real?), I just don't know anymore.

"Nice, sweet, charming, funny, caring, loyal, witty, cute..." These are some of the thing girls have called me. If i'm all of these things, why is it they don't go for me? One problem I mentioned is that girls where I live only like guys who are rude, obnoxious, and possible to end up on a list of people to be arrested in the future. They want guys who abuse them, beat them up and assault them. That just doesn't make sense to me at all! Why would anyone want to be with someone who is likely to hurt them or even kill them? I guess it's that whole bad boy thing... They don't want the good guy. Then I guess I'd be better off moving, then? At the same time, since I'm Mexican-American, I might have to deal with a lot of racial cracks or prejudice.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

No, it's pretty much the same everywhere. All women want the bad boy.

It's pretty freakin' depressing.


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## Dark Drifter

Back to square one I suppose. I guess I'll resume being a hermit then and start keeping to myself once more. I actually noticed that after I made this post I've stopped caring for the feelings of girls, with the exception of my queen Natalie Horler and a friend of mine I spend almost hours talking to via messaging. Aside from them, I've stopped being that "sweet charming nice" loser that seemingly every other girl took advantage of.

Not sure if this was a change for better or worse. Either way, doesn't look like I'll be getting a girlfriend anytime in my final year of high school like I so stupidly dreamt of.


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## Ununderstood

I've only kissed three girls in my whole life and it's been almost 1 1/2 years since I kissed the last one. I don't see myself hooking up with anyone anymore, seeing as how my body was the one that attracted the females (cause it sure wasn't my personality). Now that I have stopped working out for so long and my social skills plummeting constantly there is little to no hope for me to ever have another make out session or much less lose my virginity.

To the ladies; If I could I would kiss all of you who say you have never kissed a guy before, and not just a pucker kiss, it would be some steamy french kissing. I would do it willingly and happily as well.


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## Mordeci

I never kissed a girl but I never really tried too either, not much in the confidence department.


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## Nelly

It's sad reading all these posts, im going to be 23 next January just around the corner and life continues the same...Oh well....Its not all my fault.


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## JFmtl

It gets worse at every bday thinking about all that kind of stuff "normal" people did way earlier and that i havent done yet. Every year it seems to be getting more likely ill never get to experience those things at all.


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## King Moonracer

ughh...physical contact with a girl is one of the things i want most in my life. Im 18, and have never kissed a girl.. I just got my first hug from a girl a few months ago when i graduated highschool. She was this really beautiful, hot girl that would talk to me. Alot of pretty girls talked to me and liked me as a friend....i hope...but everytime they talked to me i thought that they were just doing it to be nice...This one girl even wanted me to be her square danceing partner in gym class. she was one of the prettiest girls in my class, and she was my square dancing partner. So thats a good sign i hope....i hung out with he semi-cool guys in highschool...probably because i played sports, so i got lucky..then a few of these people got really close to knowing the real me, so they wanted to hang out with me because the real me is awesome.. then they wanted me to do social events with them, and i became more reserved towards them again...so ya, i was rambling sorry...

I reallly want to kiss a girl...Id just love to cuddle with a girl and kiss her...itd be so nice.


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## Ununderstood

.


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## RyanJ

Dang it...just when I got that insufferable Katy Perry song out of my head...


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## XxArmyofOnexX

Never kissed a girl either. Thanks for reminding me... :|

Anyone else subconsciously filter out all the people around you, so it only seems like you see couples and people making out and stuff? It's ****ing annoying...


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## Kakaka

Nope. 

Feel like I've wasted my teenage years somewhat. Oh well.


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## Narcissus

I had been fretting about it... like a handshake: the thing you're supposed to do at an opportune moment. But what about the technique? It's so unnatural. I've never felt like kissing anyone.

Then I gave a goodnight hug, pulled back and saw her eyes. Then I turned to liquid... liberated.

First kiss at 28. Forgive the flowery language; it did happen.


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## Jenikyula gone mad

WintersTale said:


> No, it's pretty much the same everywhere. All women want the bad boy.
> 
> It's pretty freakin' depressing.


That's total bull****. I really, really appreciate a guy who's amazingly nice and caring. I'm seeing someone like that right now, and I'm ecstatic that he's the farthest thing from an ******* "badboy".


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## zombieguy93

PGVan said:


> That's pretty much me, except I'm 24.
> 
> To improve yourself physically, you have to have the proper mindset and motivation. I have equipment, but I don't use it because I don't believe being 30 pounds lighter is going to make a lick of difference in my social life. It's not going to get me out of the house more often.


trust me i dropped 60 pounds and not only did i look better but i had a WAY more positive outlook on life and it definitely helped me talking to other people, but i'm still working on it.


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## hickorysmoked

zombieguy93 said:


> trust me i dropped 60 pounds and not only did i look better but i had a WAY more positive outlook on life and it definitely helped me talking to other people, but i'm still working on it.


Wow thats impressive man! How long did it take for you to lose it? What kinds of exercises/dieting did you do?


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