# Not sure if I want to be vegetarian or not.



## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

Bit of backstory: cooking is my oldest hobby, I've always been obsessed with mealtimes and new/tasty foods. I never had a sweet tooth though. I would have rather had a gherkin than a slice of cake (yeah I'm weird). This is important because my food staples were salt based meals containing animal products...

In many ways, I want to be vegetarian or vegan; I've been thinking about these kinds of issues for the last few years. For the past year at least, depression has caused me to loose all of my appetite. I don't have the will to feed myself properly. What some might do in this situation is turn to junk/convenience food, but the problem is that 95% of convenience food has some kind of cheap meat product in it. Suffice to say I'd rather go without than buy/eat this for reasons too convoluted to go into.

At the moment, my meals are often vegetarian. What I do still buy is: organic eggs, organic milk, tinned fish, small amounts of cheese and organic beef mince. Maybe once a month I eat other meats that I haven't mentally "OK'd" but generally, I find industrial-style meat gross.

What I'm wondering out loud is: do I have some kind of food phobia or eating disorder? Sometimes I feel like I'm just being a wimp, and sometimes I think my feelings are more than justified and I should become vegetarian or vegan. On top of that... I'm quite underweight so between lack of appetite and avoiding certain foods I'm not left with much opportunity to actually eat.


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## xlavenderx (Feb 23, 2014)

So weird, because I've been going through something pretty similar. I do not have sweet tooth, and would prefer something "real" over a chip flavour. And since, meat has repulsed me, so I've turned vegetarian for the most part, except for the odd craving.

So, from my experience, I think you should try out being vegetarian/vegan. I don't have experience from being vegan, but from having a more vegetarian lifestyle, the "salt" tooth is still largely fulfilled... veggies, spices, and tons of different recipes haven't been depriving, especially if you incorporate filling foods like beans or quinoa. And, ever since I stopped relying on meat, I've actually found more interest in foods and new recipes to experiment with.

Maybe you're just more in tune with your body or maturing, or going through a phase. If you lack a total appetite though, and literally no feed appeals to you, then I think it'd be worth seeing a doctor, because that could become dangerous (like starving etc.).


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## slowlyimproving (Jan 2, 2014)

I like meat too much to go vegetarian but I am eating less beef than I use too. I don't think it's very healthy. I also try to make sure I get enough daily servings of fruits and vegetables.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

You should do whatever makes you feel best. I've been on an almost completely vegetarian diet for the last 3 months and not eating any snack foods whatsoever. This is mostly due to the fact that I'm constantly nursing my severe depression and eating only light/healthy foods seems to just generally make me feel better.


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

xlavenderx said:


> So weird, because I've been going through something pretty similar. I do not have sweet tooth, and would prefer something "real" over a chip flavour. And since, meat has repulsed me, so I've turned vegetarian for the most part, except for the odd craving.
> 
> So, from my experience, I think you should try out being vegetarian/vegan. I don't have experience from being vegan, but from having a more vegetarian lifestyle, the "salt" tooth is still largely fulfilled... veggies, spices, and tons of different recipes haven't been depriving, especially if you incorporate filling foods like beans or quinoa. And, ever since I stopped relying on meat, I've actually found more interest in foods and new recipes to experiment with.
> 
> Maybe you're just more in tune with your body or maturing, or going through a phase. If you lack a total appetite though, and literally no feed appeals to you, then I think it'd be worth seeing a doctor, because that could become dangerous (like starving etc.).


You're totally right about everything. In a lot of ways, when I do cook these days, the meals are more interesting than if I was relying on meat to be some sort of centrepiece. More flavourful plant ingredients and more Asian dishes which get their flavour from spices.

One of the hardest parts is getting other people to understand. I'm not saying I'm vegetarian so it's difficult to tell someone such as family,"I do eat meat, just not the stuff that YOU bought/cooked". If you're not presenting yourself as a serious vegetarian it comes across like you're just being difficult and picky.


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## Steinerz (Jul 15, 2013)

Be whatever you want to be.


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## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

I can relate I am becoming more and more reluctant to eat meat, not because of animal rights issues though. Don't get me wrong I love chicken/pork but the way I see some people crave a steak dinner, it just does nothing for me.


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

changeme77 said:


> I can relate I am becoming more and more reluctant to eat meat, not because of animal rights issues though. Don't get me wrong I love chicken/pork but the way I see some people crave a steak dinner, it just does nothing for me.


What reasons?


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## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

hazelblue said:


> What reasons?


I grew up on the Mediterranean diet. Although there is some meat it's a fairly balanced diet with lots of healthy foods like salads, fresh fruits and veggies, salmon, pasta, etc. I am just not that fond of meat I much prefer seafood. I was the family member that always finished the salad bowl if I had to pick between a fresh salad and something sweet I'd take the salad every time. I am reluctant completely avoiding meat, though, because I don't want to lose any weight.


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## adam4991 (Mar 27, 2010)

I've been a vegetarian for the past two months and I can say its been really rewarding just knowing I can do it. If you feel like you want to try it then go for it!


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Without meat I would look like I just came from a concentration camp. Impossible for me to get enough calories with vegetables only for how much I need to eat, so it isn't at option for me. I already cook all day as it is.


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## Shorts (Dec 1, 2009)

Noca said:


> Without meat I would look like I just came from a concentration camp. Impossible for me to get enough calories with vegetables only for how much I need to eat, so it isn't at option for me. I already cook all day as it is.


That's just silly, you can get all the calories/protein/vitamins you need from an animal free diet. Reminds me of this:










I would highly recommend going vegan, it will improve your physical health (due to all the healthy foods, less fat, cholesterol, hormones etc), improve your mental health (due to not killing anything just so you can eat, it gives you a real positive outlook on things), save the planet (because veganism is good for the environment) save you some cash (fruit, vegetables and beans are cheap), and most importantly, save some animals!

And don't worry about missing out on nice food, I've just polished off a big old plate of spaghetti bolognese made with meat-free mince followed up with a massive bowl of dairy-free chocolate ice cream and a fruit salad. I get more than enough protein/calories/vitamins etc.

If you still crave animal based food, you can get dairy-free milk, veggie sausages, burgers, mince, vegan cheese, vegan pizza, hell you can even get vegan bacon (and it tastes good!).

Oh and don't forget, yummy vegan cupcakes!










It will also get you back in the kitchen and interested in cooking again, just type in 'vegan cookbook/recipes' in google and watch a billion results pop up for incredible veggie food. You'll be interested in cooking again in no time.

It's a lot easier than you think. I faffed about a few years ago wondering whether I should do it and then eventually decided one day to just get on with it and went cold turkey from all animal products. It turned out to be one of the easiest things I've ever done and one of the best, Been vegan 2 years now and going strong, no health problems, no exhaustion, no 'concentration camp' look :roll

If you don't want to change your diet all at once just do a little at a time, start off doing just 1 day a week vegan, switch your cow's milk for rice milk or just do vegan after 6pm or something, you'll get used to it eventually and you'll love it!

Check out the vegan society websites and just do some general research online.

http://www.vegansociety.com/

Here's a cool info-graphic I found too:










Go vegan, you won't regret it, I promise!

Shorts.

P.S.
Just for motivation, here is a picture of baby chicks on a conveyor belt being fed into a grinder to be disposed of (which is what happens to all male baby chicks because they are useless to the egg laying industry, so much for 'free range' and 'organic'...)


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## xlavenderx (Feb 23, 2014)

hazelblue said:


> You're totally right about everything. In a lot of ways, when I do cook these days, the meals are more interesting than if I was relying on meat to be some sort of centrepiece. More flavourful plant ingredients and more Asian dishes which get their flavour from spices.
> 
> One of the hardest parts is getting other people to understand. I'm not saying I'm vegetarian so it's difficult to tell someone such as family,"I do eat meat, just not the stuff that YOU bought/cooked". If you're not presenting yourself as a serious vegetarian it comes across like you're just being difficult and picky.


So true... explaining to people that your diet does actually have a significant impact on you is impossible unless they're going through the same thing. I also don't like to say I'm vegetarian, so I choose to tell people I've cut back back on meat for different reasons. If they want to know why, I'll tell them, but if they don't, then it's usually okay. Or I'll just honestly tell them I'm sensitive to food in a way that it can either make me feel gross and groggy or give me energy. If they're still all judge-y I just roll my eyes and ignore them. As much as they don't understand my "diet", I don't understand how they can scarf down fast food every week, either.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Shorts said:


> That's just silly, you can get all the calories/protein/vitamins you need from an animal free diet. Reminds me of this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Food from animals is more calorie dense correct? Then if I am struggling to get in enough healthy nutrition as it is, cooking which takes up nearly most of my day already, you really think that I would be able to eat enough by vegetables alone? I am sorry but that sounds illogical and ludicrous.

Please post an average day of what you eat for me to see. Because I have an extremely high metabolism and it seems like everyone around me eats little mouse crumbs compared to me, save for a few into body building who eat like 12 eggs for breakfast. I am still at 129.5 lbs 5'10.5".

You are trying to tell me that you are able to eat enough on a vegan diet for your body, but you fail to realize, that I am not you, and I am not in your body, therefore have different needs. I am going to assume that before you started on a vegan diet that you were not underweight to begin with and were not in the same situation as me.

And chickens on a conveyor belt don't come first before my own survival. Animals die, they would if they were in the wild/nature as well. Nothing new.

Going out of my way for better health is something I would do, and try to do whenever I can. However going out of my way for some misguided morals(which would take even more energy and resources that I don't have to spare), like checking if something I ate contained some trace of milk product and if it did, sticking my fingers to the back of my throat to vomit what I just ate, is not something I would ever do.


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## Shorts (Dec 1, 2009)

Sorry if my post came across as being a bit preachy and rude, we veggies get a bit overexcited about our diets because we love them so much.

No beef dude (literally) :b



Noca said:


> Food from animals is more calorie dense correct? Then if I am struggling to get in enough healthy nutrition as it is, cooking which takes up nearly most of my day already, you really think that I would be able to eat enough by vegetables alone? I am sorry but that sounds illogical and ludicrous.


It's more calorie dense but it's also a lot unhealthier, not to mention it's not the amount of calories you eat that is important, but the quality of said calories. If you are struggling to get enough healthy nutrition as it is, maybe it's because what you are eating is unhealthy?

You could eat a whole cow but if all the calories in that meat are unhealthy and not easily absorbed into your body then it doesn't matter how much you eat, You would need to eat an entire field of cows in one day just to see any difference.

Veggie food on the other hand, is easily absorbed into the body and provides loads of healthy vitamins and nutrients from a much smaller amount of food, so you wouldn't need to eat a truckload of vegetables, because you get so much more out of so much less food. (Plus, there's lots more to veggie food than just vegetables :b)

A plate full of vegan food will give you way more energy than a plate of animal food simply because it's content is just that much healthier, regardless of the amount of calories.
Look at Carl Lewis in his prime, fully vegan, does he look like he doesn't get enough to eat from just vegetables alone? Hell, even Mike Tyson is a veggie these days, I bet his metabolism is insane...



Noca said:


> Please post an average day of what you eat for me to see. Because I have an extremely high metabolism and it seems like everyone around me eats little mouse crumbs compared to me, save for a few into body building who eat like 12 eggs for breakfast. I am still at 129.5 lbs 5'10.5".
> 
> You are trying to tell me that you are able to eat enough on a vegan diet for your body, but you fail to realize, that I am not you, and I am not in your body, therefore have different needs. I am going to assume that before you started on a vegan diet that you were not underweight to begin with and were not in the same situation as me.


I eat the same as what everyone else eats, cereal for breakfast with non-dairy milk (much more easier absorbed than dairy milk), snack constantly through the day on random healthy stuff (lots of good calories), pasta/rice/sandwiches for lunch (more healthy calories) and eat a massive dinner every evening (even more calories).

I also have an extremely high metabolism, I could eat an entire elephant and not gain an ounce of weight, always been like that. I'm 6'3" and 155lbs and go for a short run every morning, that's about the extent of my exercise.

I've never been underweight before but when I was still eating animals my weight used to fluctuate a lot, whereas on a vegan diet I've been steady since I started.

Again, if you are underweight then it's probably because what you are eating is full of unhealthy stuff. Lots of meat, fish, milk and eggs will only make you less healthy, and your weight will drop even more because all you are absorbing in your food is fat, salt and sugar which won't do you any good if you have a high metabolism. Whereas if you ate veggie food then your body would become healthier from more vitamins and minerals and more able to take on weight and keep it.

Weight gain depends on the quality of your calories, not the quantity. The funny thing is, your bodybuilding friends would actually be better off with a plate of veggie food than 12 eggs.
Type 'vegan bodybuilding' into google and be amazed!



Noca said:


> And chickens on a conveyor belt don't come first before my own survival. Animals die, they would if they were in the wild/nature as well. Nothing new.
> 
> Going out of my way for better health is something I would do, and try to do whenever I can. However going out of my way for some misguided morals(which would take even more energy and resources that I don't have to spare), like checking if something I ate contained some trace of milk product and if it did, sticking my fingers to the back of my throat to vomit what I just ate, is not something I would ever do.


Hey, nobody said you had to go veggie for the animals, loads of people do it just for their health, Bill Clinton for example, ate junk food his whole life until he had to have a quadruple heart bypass and subsequently switched to a vegan diet for his health and has been fine ever since.

You don't need morals to go veggie, hell you don't even need to care about animals at all, and if you want to go out of your way to become healthier then why not try it. You'll never know unless you try and find out.
You would be amazed how little energy and resources you need to eat good veggie food, at least every food shop on every high street has some sort of veggie option and making your own is even easier.

The difference between animals dying in nature and dying in a filthy, nasty factory farm is huge and the funny thing is that if you did put those chickens health before your own and stop eating them, your own health would actually improve as a result, hence both you *and* the chickens' health would improve, ironic no? :b

Plus you don't have to constantly check for tiny traces of animal products in everything, you could give some things the benefit of the doubt if you don't know what is in it, maybe go vegetarian, or part-time veggie. The world isn't split into Vegans and meat eaters, there is all sorts of in between, so you can suit your diet to your needs.

Your current diet of animal products is clearly not working if you are complaining of being underweight and unable to gain weight, what have you got to lose by trying some veggie food here and there? Either way, try it and find out, you never know, it might work! 

P.S. Instead of a picture of poor little chickens, here's a picture of a happy cow instead!


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Shorts said:


> Sorry if my post came across as being a bit preachy and rude, we veggies get a bit overexcited about our diets because we love them so much.
> 
> No beef dude (literally) :b
> 
> ...


The very fact that you can get by on cereal means you have no where near the condition that I have, you even claim to eat like any average person, means you didn't listen to my specific situation. Cereal might as well be dust because it doesn't provide anywhere near enough energy(maybe it can provide minerals and vitamins, but that doesn't build mass).

I actually have a brother and his wife who have gone vegan, and he has went from 155 lbs ish to a mere 135 lbs. He was always slightly a larger frame than me to begin with. So you would suggest I go down to like 105 lbs? I'm sorry I don't think so. I get enough insults about my weight as it is. Not to mention his wife looks so skinny and unhealthy, her face is completely sunken in and you can see all her bones now.

You still don't seem to explain how I am supposed to get enough calories to put on mass from vegetables alone.

I am already near my max capacity of how much food I can stuff down my face and how much time I have to spend cooking and eating and grocery shopping as it is. Where am I going to get all this extra time and energy from?

I already eat lots of vegetables as it is. For some reason you equate eating meat to eating processed food which is completely false. The overwhelming vast majority of foods I eat are cooked from scratch and are whole foods. I don't eat processed junk that is poisoned with sugar, and transfats, and salt and a whole list of other can't pronounce ingredients.

Vegetables are a great source of nutrients, vitamins, minerals and what not but they are not a high enough source of calories for me to put on any mass.

If you are trying to equate my failure to eating meat, that is nothing more than faulty logic and reasoning. There are plenty of people who eat meat who exercise and are much healthier and in a much greater build than I am, I am just not one of them. My individual situation says nothing about a clean diet consisting of meat, fruit and vegetables.

The difference between a chicken dying in a slaughterhouse or dying in the jaws of a coyote are not much, guess you never watched the discovery channel. I could see there being a difference in their lives while they are alive, which is why I can see having a free range farm as a reasonable compromise to that issue.

As for your Bill Clinton anecdote, you state he went from eating junk food (and most likely being overweight) to eating a full vegan diet. I don't see how that has anything to do with me. It wouldn't be much of a difference if he went from eating junk food to eating a mediterranean diet, he still would have improved. Anything is better than eating the processed American junk diet.

That being said, could I benefit from adding even more vegetables into my diet, yes. I simply need more healthy food in general. All do is eat all day.


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

Shorts said:


> Again, if you are underweight then it's probably because what you are eating is full of unhealthy stuff. Lots of meat, fish, milk and eggs will only make you less healthy, and your weight will drop even more because all you are absorbing in your food is fat, salt and sugar which won't do you any good if you have a high metabolism. Whereas if you ate veggie food then your body would become healthier from more vitamins and minerals and more able to take on weight and keep it.
> 
> Plus you don't have to constantly check for tiny traces of animal products in everything, you could give some things the benefit of the doubt if you don't know what is in it, maybe go vegetarian, or part-time veggie. The world isn't split into Vegans and meat eaters, there is all sorts of in between, so you can suit your diet to your needs.


Shorts, I realise you're just passionate about the vegan lifestyle but it is coming across a bit critical which only discourages people from caring, since a lot of omnivores' efforts to cut down on animal products and move away from industrial factory farms... is never good enough. Like you said, there are a lot of "in between" lifestyles, which are in my opinion, a step in the right direction.

I don't see how eating some animal products automatically decreases the quality of the plant based calories that one consumes. I might estimate that most omnivores eat 70% carbohydrates like wheat and rice. It must at least the same for vegans. So I don't think you can assume that omnivores' calorie sources are so much more different than yours. Not to mention that omnivores can eat as much nutritious vegetables and fruit as vegans.


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## Shorts (Dec 1, 2009)

hazelblue said:


> Shorts, I realise you're just passionate about the vegan lifestyle but it is coming across a bit critical which only discourages people from caring.


Sorry, that tends to happen, it's sometimes hard to explain how you feel about animal products without being harsh. Thinking of all those poor dead animals makes me sad 

I think if you eat more veggie food than you currently are it might just increase your appetite and desire to eat more simply because you will become more involved with what's in your food. I know I started becoming more interested with what I ate when I started and it improved my mental health too. It's nice not to feel guilty about what you are eating, which in turn, relieves depression, which in turn, brings back your appetite. :b

I don't think you have an eating disorder though, it's likely just the depression, it really does cause all sorts of health problems doesn't it :|

Good luck!


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## awakenedwolf (Mar 2, 2014)

Well regardless, I would not recommend eating soy if you become a vegetarian or vegan. Amazing how many people thinks it's good for you.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm like 98% vegetarian, which I regard as the best real approach.

Meat is expensive and while I don't cut it out completely because I'm not a crazed madman, I find it merely economical to munch on eggs and yogurt over hamburger. The meat I do buy is all ethically raised though. Like I'll only buy tuna that's dolphin safe.



awakenedwolf said:


> Well regardless, I would not recommend eating soy if you become a vegetarian or vegan. Amazing how many people thinks it's good for you.


What's so bad about soy?


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## awakenedwolf (Mar 2, 2014)

Soybeans contain phytoestrogens, which mimic the body’s natural estrogen hormones. For men, this can lead to a testosterone imbalance, infertility, low sperm count, and increased risk of cancers. For women, it can cause estrogen dominance, which has been linked to infertility, menstrual troubles and cancer…

These phytoestrogens are so strong that a baby consuming only soy formula is consuming the equivalent hormones of 4 birth control pills a day!
The high levels of phytic acid in soy inhibit the body’s ability to absorb important minerals, including zinc, calcium, copper, iron and magnesium (which many people are dangerously deficient in already).
Soy also contains protease inhibitors, which can block the enzymes that are necessary for the digestion of certain proteins.
The goitrogens in soy are potent anti-thyroid compounds that can lead to endocrine disruption and thyroid disorders. Infants on soy formula have a much higher risk of autoimmune thyroid disease. (note: cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage have these properties as well, though they are lessened greatly by cooking. Cooking does not remove these compounds from soy based foods!)
Soy is often promoted as an alternative food for celiac and gluten intolerant people, but its lectins can be harmful to the intestines and prevent healing even when gluten is removed. Practically all processed foods contain soy ingredients or derivatives.


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## awakenedwolf (Mar 2, 2014)

Not to mention, soy is an allergen in many peoples diets today. Do some research on food allergens which many people are not aware of that cause problems with there bodies.


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## dcaffeine (Oct 26, 2013)

You should be a vegetarian. It is cool to be one, I've heard.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

awakenedwolf said:


> Soybeans contain phytoestrogens, which mimic the body's natural estrogen hormones. For men, this can lead to a testosterone imbalance, infertility, low sperm count, and increased risk of cancers. For women, it can cause estrogen dominance, which has been linked to infertility, menstrual troubles and cancer&#8230;
> 
> These phytoestrogens are so strong that a baby consuming only soy formula is consuming the equivalent hormones of 4 birth control pills a day!
> The high levels of phytic acid in soy inhibit the body's ability to absorb important minerals, including zinc, calcium, copper, iron and magnesium (which many people are dangerously deficient in already).
> ...


That's not what I read (link). But these findings are mildly disputed. The main focus is on ISF.

There is something to be said about soy causing problems for infants with congenital hypothyroidism (link), but you're going to have to find me papers about it actually causing thyroid problems.

Protease inhibitors are attributed to soy's protective effects against cancer, but I haven't read any research definitive on this. Based on reviews of the medical literature, there's not enough concern to remove soy from diet (link).

Also you have it backwards, phytoestrogens are significantly weaker than the human variety, ranging from 1/100 to 1/1000.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

awakenedwolf said:


> Soybeans contain phytoestrogens, which mimic the body's natural estrogen hormones. For men, this can lead to a testosterone imbalance, infertility, low sperm count, and increased risk of cancers. For women, it can cause estrogen dominance, which has been linked to infertility, menstrual troubles and cancer&#8230;


All mainly speculation, with most studies showing no or negligible effects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11880595

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/60/3/333.short

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/abstract

(_Result(s)
No significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, SHBG, free T, or FAI were detected regardless of statistical model.

Conclusion(s)
The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men.)_

There are also studies showing beneficial effects of soy. I really don't think it's something to worry about- and this from me, a Vegan who doesn't actually use soy usually as part of his diet.

Crazy how people worry about soy........ a bean....... but not the hormones pumped into the animals that they eat, and the milk they drink! Crazy world.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

OP you don't have an eating disorder, you said yourself you're too depressed to cook. Your lapse with proper nutrition is due to depression, so it's a byproduct, not another issue in itself. So not a disorder and not a phobia, idk why people get so keen on collecting multiple diagnoses.

And if you want to go vegetarian or vegan, then try it. If you don't really want to then you're just gonna eat meat. I don't think there's any such thing as part-time vegetarian like some people have said in here, if you're a "part-time" vegetarian then you're just an omnivore. If you like meat, then have it. But I recommend educating yourself on the meat you're purchasing because a lot of it is filled with hormones or the cattle is being fed other cattle, or even what you're buying is just meat byproducts glued together with enzymes and falsely repackaged as a decent cut. And the terms "free-range" and such are very loose, most animals are in horrible conditions. Even health-wise, I feel so much better since cutting out meat and all other animal products. But I really enjoy my food now that it's plant-based. doesn't mean with finding a good butcher who cuts from a good source, that you can't live a good life with meat. Find out what balance works for you, which will be harder since you're depressed but it can be something to work on. If you've been contemplating this for years then I don't see it being super viable, since that's a long time to think something over without working out for you, but give it a try. vegetarianism/veganism is not an ED, eating disorder has the word "disorder' for a reason, it's not simply feeling too depressed to cook (though depression is a major issue, but they are not one in the same).


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