# Another confusing guy



## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

I feel so romantically retarded right now, I don't even know where to go for help :/

I met this guy online, and we've been on 3 dates. The first two were OK, and the 3rd one went great... or so I thought. He didn't contact me for 3 days afterwards, so I had pretty much written him off as not being interested (I actually sent him a text the day after to see how he was, and he replied. Then I haven't heard from him). When he finally contacted me and suggested we meet again, I told him I didn't want to, because I didn't really see us being a couple. He replied with "Wow, how come?" I said I just didn't feel like it was the real thing...

And then a few hours later, I received a very bizarre text from him saying that by "how come" he meant how come I was thinking of us two as a couple. He said he never thought about me that way, he only saw me as a friend. He didn't know that I considered what we had as "dates." He said he didn't have time to think about his nor my feelings, due to being busy with work. Now that he thought about it, he said the thought of not seeing me again hurt a little, and that he wanted to make up to me by taking me on a "real date" tomorrow.

What the hell does that mean?! I feel kind of insulted that he said he didn't know I thought it was a date. Because he acted very date-like - he complimented my looks when he saw me, opened doors for me, even apologized when he didn't get a chance to open the door for me. Did he just make everything up in that text in order for me to give him another chance? Should I? I liked him, but I don't want to waste my energy on someone who just isn't all that into me :/ I also don't like people who lie!


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

PS. We met on a dating site.


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## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

Maybe he's trying a bit hard to play it cool. Who knows. Either way, I don't think what he's done is bad enough to write him off.


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## Daveyboy (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> PS. We met on a dating site.


...and he didn't know those were dates??

wow sounds like he was playing hard to get...Now that you said goodbye he has second thoughts?? Did he want you to drool all over him?

Later for that !!


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## nightrain (Nov 17, 2008)

His behavior seems kind of strange considering you met on a dating site.


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## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

Daveyboy said:


> ...and he didn't know those were dates??


Even still not everyone's intentions on these sites is to date. Well at least not initially anyway.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Daveyboy said:


> wow sounds like he was playing hard to get...Now that you said goodbye he has second thoughts?? Did he want you to drool all over him?
> 
> Later for that !!


Yeah, that's what I was wondering as well. He said he had met 6 girls off of that site, and complained that some of them wanted more and were being too pushy (him presumably not being interested). So I thought he didn't like it when girls showed too much attention... I don't know what to think anymore.



changeme77 said:


> Even still not everyone's intentions on these sites is to date. Well at least not initially anyway.


On his profile, he listed qualities he was looking for in a girl... I thought it was obvious he wasn't there for friends :/


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## Phalene (Feb 15, 2013)

He is on a dating site, but he is too busy because of work. Illogical, much? Maybe he just wants the first signs of attention and then he moves on.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

It seems to me like he didn't want to be the one that got rejected/turned down, so his response is trying to make it seem as if he wasn't considering you like that in the first place. I'm not sure, but that's what it seems like to me anyway.


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## LorenLuke (Jan 3, 2011)

The fact you decided to go out to eat after meeting on a dating site as each looking for another, without it stated in advance that it would be just as friends... Either this man is very irrational or very confused.


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

I'm also playing hard to get, bs I'm crazy now.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

This is why trying to genuinely date women is a nightmare. Everything is analyzed to death if you are not mister perfect from the first minute.

What kind of behavior did you WANT from him that, since it didn't happen, you then started to question your interest in him? I have a feeling if he contacted you within 2 days instead of 3 you would have had the same feeling. If it took him 24 hours, same feeling. So there is a cutoff for you that felt like "too long" (whatever that length of time is) yet when in your interactions with him on the 3 dates you went on did he or you communicate about relationship expectations?

I think what happened is you met a guy for a few dates, it was paced according to his availability, he wasn't taking it too seriously yet & just trying to get to know you. On your side, in your unspoken thoughts, you likely projected what you wanted without actually giving an indication to him in any way about it. So you set certain expectations in your own thoughts about it and just presumed those same expectations were immediately in his thoughts.

What you want or wanted from him MAY have been possible, and may still be possible had you:

- Not projected feelings onto something without knowing the other person's current desires or intents 
- Communicated the interest level so you could gauge his own and how close it was to yours

Doing either of those would have provided you the patience and calmness to take it as it comes and would have not spooked him as much or confused him as much to cause him to double-think what was going on. He probably thought to respond to you that way about your "not a couple" comment because he very likely was thinking "Woah, where did that come from. I wasn't avoiding her and I just invited her out again... this one may be a little unbalanced."



veron said:


> I feel so romantically retarded right now, I don't even know where to go for help :/
> 
> I met this guy online, and we've been on 3 dates. The first two were OK, and the 3rd one went great... or so I thought. He didn't contact me for 3 days afterwards, so I had pretty much written him off as not being interested (I actually sent him a text the day after to see how he was, and he replied. Then I haven't heard from him). When he finally contacted me and suggested we meet again, I told him I didn't want to, because I didn't really see us being a couple. He replied with "Wow, how come?" I said I just didn't feel like it was the real thing...
> 
> ...


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## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

> And then a few hours later, I received a very bizarre text from him saying that by "how come" he meant how come I was thinking of us two as a couple. He said he never thought about me that way, he only saw me as a friend. He didn't know that I considered what we had as "dates."


:lol It sounds as if he said that so that he could act superior because he was annoyed that you didn't have much interest in him. He probably does like you, but he was probably hurt when you told him that you didn't really see it going anywhere. If you want to go on another date with him then you probably should, just to see if it's any better.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

I find it funny how the girls participating in this thread are taking the stance that the guy is confusing and not seeing that it's actually the OP that not only was (and is) the confusing one but triggered the confusion in the first place.


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## TheManInTheRedSuit (Mar 30, 2013)

The better question is, why do you suddenly want to date him again because he didn't think they were dates?

What the hell does that mean?_*! I feel kind of insulted*_ that he said he didn't know I thought it was a date. Because he acted very date-like - he complimented my looks when he saw me, opened doors for me, even apologized when he didn't get a chance to open the door for me. _*Did he just make everything up in that text in order for me to give him another chance? Should I?*_ I liked him, but I don't want to waste my energy on someone who just isn't all that into me _*:/ I also don't like people who lie! *_

You sure?


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the input, all.



VanGogh said:


> This is why trying to genuinely date women is a nightmare. Everything is analyzed to death if you are not mister perfect from the first minute.
> 
> What kind of behavior did you WANT from him that, since it didn't happen, you then started to question your interest in him?


Well... I'm not expecting him to be "Mr. Perfect." I've given up on finding the right man and am now just trying to find somebody who's "good enough," lol. I recently got out of some fling where the guy led me on, only to learn that he had no serious intentions with me. I don't want to go down that road again...

I've been in situations where a guy was genuinely interested in me, and I know what that feels like. I'm simply not getting that feeling with this one. If he wants to casually date people, there's nothing wrong with that, but I want something more serious. I agree I might have not handled the situation in the best way, though...



TheManInTheRedSuit said:


> The better question is, why do you suddenly want to date him again because he didn't think they were dates?


Well, I don't know. I do find him attractive, after all. I'm wondering if I should give this another go but fear that things will just be awkward now.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Thanks for the input, all.
> 
> Well... I'm not expecting him to be "Mr. Perfect." I've given up on finding the right man and am now just trying to find somebody who's "good enough," lol. I recently got out of some fling where the guy led me on, only to learn that he had no serious intentions with me. I don't want to go down that road again...
> 
> ...


You're here asking about him because you're contemplating giving him another shot. However, you keep presuming the confusing behavior is coming from him, and that is then causing you further confusion.

Some guys are more aloof than others. He was probably put off by your comment of not seeing you two as a couple, not in the sense that he was seeking that with you but that you even put it in that context before you got to know each other well.

You were the one projecting a perception of what was going on. You said, exactly, "...3 dates. The first two were OK, and the 3rd one went great... or so I thought." So you thought the 3rd date went great, that sounds like you were "feeling it". What then turned you off was not his behaviors on the dates but rather solely based on his delayed communication after the third date, yet not once are you contemplating (here) any rational reasons as to why he might have taken so long, even if to him it may not have been a long time since he may have been busy, or buried in work, or traveling. You were not a couple by the third date so there's no reason for him to feel pressure to check in with you as if you were, but when you felt a delayed response time then you start to get feelings like "OK, maybe he's not interested and because of that I'm losing interest so I don't see us as a couple." So then you tell him you didn't see each other as being a couple as the reason for rejecting meeting with him again, which to him came out of left field. As a guy he would be wondering "At what point did we discuss being a couple? We're just going out to get to know each other."

So from his perspective, not only was that a put-offish thing to say because it's presumptive, but it also throws a wrench in the works of what he probably perceived as being normal. Going out on some dates with a girl to get to know her. Actually sounds pretty respectful and genuine. A bit aloof, yes, but he wasn't the one projecting or presuming. You were, and when the pace of his communication didn't progress as you desired, even though he asked you out yet again, your projection and prior interest came crashing down. That was probably strange to him, and very likely he probably felt like he may have done something wrong and was hoping to try to "do better" as he is now more aware of something that didn't occur to him before - that your interest in him was building and his pace was too slow.


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## shygirl14 (May 23, 2009)

veron said:


> PS. We met on a dating site.


Sounds like he can't take being rejected, so he texted you making you feel like it's your fault or it's you. Men do that when they have a big ego and can't handle rejection. It's a control behavior that they need to start things off and end things..

My advice to you is not to continue talking with him. Look how he is making feel, do you really want someone in your life like that?

Shy


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## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

shygirl14 said:


> Sounds like he can't take being rejected, so he texted you making you feel like it's your fault or it's you. Men do that when they have a big ego and can't handle rejection. It's a control behavior that they need to start things off and end things..


If that was in fact true, why would he be interested in meeting up with her again? I think you are way off the mark and putting thoughts like this into the OP's mind is doing more harm then good.


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## shygirl14 (May 23, 2009)

changeme77 said:


> If that was in fact true, why would he be interested in meeting up with her again? I think you are way off the mark and putting thoughts like this into the OP's mind is doing more harm then good.


how is this hurting the OP's mind? It's not rocket scientist to figre out the guy was caught off guard when she didn't want to go back out with him. Then he calls her back after a few hours and makes her feel like @@@@ because she didn't want to see him.


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## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

I think you're being highly sensitive to the issue. He never said anything to make her feel like **** at least not ITT.


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## GoingBaldSucks (Mar 16, 2013)

This guy is a player. lol


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Ugh, I feel so bad right now, I just can't stop thinking about this stupid series of events. Why are relationships so... _hard_? I feel like I'm too old to be this clueless and confused. Sometimes I think I did the right thing by letting him go, and other times I think I made a mistake


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

you said you don't see yourselves as being a couple. so why even care? what I get from that is you don't even like him. just find another guy on okcupid.


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## lad (Sep 26, 2011)

He's lieing to get another date.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

cypher said:


> There were posts on this thread from guys who also thought his behavior was odd. Namely that he denied these were even dates.


Well then maybe those guys have manginas.


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## Dear turtle (Sep 7, 2011)

Sounds like you bruised his ego and he tried to flip it around by acting like he didn't see you as more than a friend which is totally bs.


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## strugglingforhope (Jun 13, 2009)

The fact it was 3 days, really has little bearing on how much he likes you. Sometimes, people have ‘rules’ that include things like don’t text back for a certain period of time, for all you know their friend probably told them to. Which is something designed to do exactly what it’s doing to you - make you over analyze everything, and suddenly you’re thinking of him a lot because you don’t know if he likes you or not. 

One question, ‘he didn’t contact me for 3 days,’ now why don’t you contact him and maybe invite him out? It doesn’t have to be only his job setting up the dates. (pardon me if I’m assuming too much) Maybe he was gauging your interest in the same way you were trying to do for him?

The Reason I ask is personally I’ve done online dating and I’ve been annoyed with women that don’t put in half the effort, particularly because it’s often lots of work setting up dates and such when nothing good comes out of it. Women I’ve dated on there often have lots of other options, which makes me and I’m sure plenty of other guys look for more interest before putting effort into keeping things going. 

It sounded like he was telling you he just saw you as friends thinking it would make things less awkward (and hiding the fact rejection did hurt his feelings), but it’s very likely he still wants to date you. I’m sure he knew it was a date; he was playing with semantics to try to avoid awkwardness. (could be wrong though) In my opinion him bragging about the 6 other girls, that were being too pushy from the site sounds like a stretch to me; it’s just him trying to show that he’s valued by other women. Some guys pull that one out because they assume women on dating sites have all the attention in the world and are dealing with men being too pushy; as in you supposedly have something in common.

Anyways, I think you should invite him out, and ask him about this stuff. Sounds like you two have some things to clear up.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

SilentLuke said:


> you said you don't see yourselves as being a couple. so why even care? what I get from that is you don't even like him. just find another guy on okcupid.


Yes. If you're not interested in him then it's best to just call it off.

And I agree with the others. It sounds like he was lying about not thinking they were real dates. He just said that because he didn't want to be rejected.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

strugglingforhope said:


> The fact it was 3 days, really has little bearing on how much he likes you. Sometimes, people have 'rules' that include things like don't text back for a certain period of time, for all you know their friend probably told them to. Which is something designed to do exactly what it's doing to you - make you over analyze everything, and suddenly you're thinking of him a lot because you don't know if he likes you or not.
> 
> One question, 'he didn't contact me for 3 days,' now why don't you contact him and maybe invite him out? It doesn't have to be only his job setting up the dates. (pardon me if I'm assuming too much) Maybe he was gauging your interest in the same way you were trying to do for him?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thorough reply. It seems like I was misinformed, because pretty much everyone told me that if a guy doesn't contact you that long, he just isn't into you. I've had guys interested in me - they were contacting me constantly, several times a day. I guess I was comparing his actions to theirs, and came to the conclusion that he can't be interested :/ I honestly didn't expect him to ask me out on another date.

I don't know how to get him back now without things being incredibly awkward? Should I try to explain something via text, or should I just ask him to meet me and then explain in person? If it's in person, would I need to address that immediately, or wait for later on in the date?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Thanks for the thorough reply. It seems like I was misinformed, because pretty much everyone told me that if a guy doesn't contact you that long, he just isn't into you. I've had guys interested in me - they were contacting me constantly, several times a day. I guess I was comparing his actions to theirs, and came to the conclusion that he can't be interested :/ I honestly didn't expect him to ask me out on another date.
> 
> I don't know how to get him back now without things being incredibly awkward? Should I try to explain something via text, or should I just ask him to meet me and then explain in person? If it's in person, would I need to address that immediately, or wait for later on in the date?


Don't try to explain anything, don't dwell on it, just text him back that you understand what he was saying & you'd be up for meeting again, maybe for lunch or a day at the park. It's not worth discussing. Unlike everyone else here I am telling you this whole confusion simply came from your making a presumption due to what you perceived as a very delayed communication. Pretend it didn't happen and base your feelings about him on your actual INTERACTIONS with him and not your SELF-CREATED PRESUMPTIONS about how high his interest level is hinging on how long it took him to get back in touch with you.

Yes, guys who are interested in you based on your experience may try to communicate with you multiple times a day but then again that behavior can also be seen as desperate chasing and I would doubt very much if you found such behavior attractive. Understanding a man's behavior doesn't equal worthiness, no more than not understanding. What should signal worthiness to you is a combination of your genuine interest level based on actual experiences as well as your real interactions and how well (or not so well) they went.


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## stinky (Oct 24, 2009)

veron said:


> Thanks for the thorough reply. It seems like I was misinformed, because pretty much everyone told me that if a guy doesn't contact you that long, he just isn't into you. I've had guys interested in me - they were contacting me constantly, several times a day. I guess I was comparing his actions to theirs, and came to the conclusion that he can't be interested :/ I honestly didn't expect him to ask me out on another date.
> 
> I don't know how to get him back now without things being incredibly awkward? Should I try to explain something via text, or should I just ask him to meet me and then explain in person? If it's in person, would I need to address that immediately, or wait for later on in the date?


hmmm well I'd have to agree that he still might be into you. But it honestly sounds like he is into other girls as well/his life got super super busy. That's the only explanations I can think of for him not contacting you for 3 days (at least in my SA mind, normal guys might be a lot different depending on their personality). If you want to smooth things over, I'd just meet him in person, and be honest about it. Cuz he is obviously a liar when he says he went on okcupid to take girls for two "friendly" dinners. LMAO. no guy would ever do that. I wouldn't be accusatory or anything...just be like "hey i like hanging out, i was kinda surprised you didn't text me or anything for a few days. " I would talk about it in the middle of the date, not the beginning or anything. And now that I think about it, it might come across as a little needy, so try not to seem that way if you can.


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## strugglingforhope (Jun 13, 2009)

veron said:


> Thanks for the thorough reply. It seems like I was misinformed, because pretty much everyone told me that if a guy doesn't contact you that long, he just isn't into you. I've had guys interested in me - they were contacting me constantly, several times a day. I guess I was comparing his actions to theirs, and came to the conclusion that he can't be interested :/ I honestly didn't expect him to ask me out on another date.
> 
> I don't know how to get him back now without things being incredibly awkward? Should I try to explain something via text, or should I just ask him to meet me and then explain in person? If it's in person, would I need to address that immediately, or wait for later on in the date?


I think they have some good advice, keep it simple, don't dwell on it, and don't focus on it - try to have fun. Though I think you should ask him when you get a chance on how and why it made you feel how it did. If you get a lot of wishy washy answers and you end up more confused than you were before hand he's probably not telling the truth (to be fair this is a hard thing for most men to be honest about, trying to say they were hurt by rejection - if that's the case). The 3 days no contact thing probably isn't a big deal, but the issue of him seeing you guys as friends is.

They may be right though that there's a possibility he just isn't interested, I was saying his interest is not related to how long he waits to contact because it completely depends on the guy - for some that does have an effect, but applying that logic to everyone doesn't work so well. It seems to me you'd run into problems applying conventional one-size-fits all dating logic to everyone you date. It also assumes that men should be on the chase instead of being chased.

If you're worried about awkwardness, try to invite him to something that relies less on talking, maybe out to a movie or something; reinforce that you enjoy spending time with him, don't expect him to guess and in that be honest. Awkward is something that doesn't run men off as much as it does women in my experience, so I wouldn't worry about it too much; if he's interested he won't care that things got awkward for a bit.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Ok, so I sent him a message, asking if he wants to meet up over the weekend. I said I felt bad for saying what I did, that I can over analyze things sometimes, and apologized. Aaaand I haven't heard from him since (this was 2 days ago). I don't know if I should just let him go now, or send another text, haha.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Ok, so I sent him a message, asking if he wants to meet up over the weekend. I said I felt bad for saying what I did, that I can over analyze things sometimes, and apologized. Aaaand I haven't heard from him since (this was 2 days ago). I don't know if I should just let him go now, or send another text, haha.


Now you can let it go.

1. If you don't hear back from him, it's not a big deal, you seemed able to get over it from your prior posts.

2. If he does get back to you (I will presume it will take him another day if he does) then it just confirms that the guy is a flake when it comes to txt responses. I know people like that, they are just more aloof or incapable of maintaining reliable communication BUT face-to-face they are great and once they feel a stronger connection it's very easy to communicate reliably.

3. If it takes him much longer than his prior 3 days to get back to you, just ignore him, even if he might be worth it, because the effort it will take will be too much turmoil to be fair for anyone.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

This is why I hate texting especially for dating. Calling is so much simpler.


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## Owl-99 (Mar 7, 2012)

komorikun said:


> This is why I hate texting especially for dating. Calling is so much simpler.


Not dating is even more simpler.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Ok, so he got back to me... He didn't comment at all on what we said previously, but just asked me to let him know when I'm free to meet up. I suggested we go see a movie. He got back immediately, saying it sounds like a great idea. So yaay  I'm glad he's willing to give it another go.

He might or might not be into me, I don't know. Whatever happens, will happen. I'm just going to go along with the flow and stop analyzing things, lol.


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## Still Waters (Sep 18, 2008)

He was just trying to save face by turning the whole thing around on you.


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## greygoose22 (Mar 19, 2013)

Wtf is an official date as opposed to a not so official date. I thought a date was two people setting up a day to hang out.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Ok, so he got back to me... He didn't comment at all on what we said previously, but just asked me to let him know when I'm free to meet up. I suggested we go see a movie. He got back immediately, saying it sounds like a great idea. So yaay  I'm glad he's willing to give it another go.
> 
> He might or might not be into me, I don't know. Whatever happens, will happen. I'm just going to go along with the flow and stop analyzing things, lol.


Right. What I've been trying to tell you. You were gauging him on his interest in you based on HOW LONG he takes to communicate sometimes instead of HOW WELL you get along which you said based on your 3 dates seemed to be pretty positive.

And, you have to also adjust your internal dialog to say something like "willing to give it another go". I'm doubtful this was a situation of something that fizzled & an attempt to "try again". It was, instead, something that was paused by you because you created your own internal confusion and frustration at his communication delays.

He is a guy who is probably used to being aloof, most likely busy juggling many things AND is careful with his emotions so as to not get hurt becoming too emotional or attached to a girl before he REALLY gets to know her. Based on the fact he hasn't attempted to sleep with you on your first 3 dates and what you described of his communications with you, that is what I would translate all of this as.

I find it rather silly all the other comments from people here who immediately jump on the bandwagon to just reassure you that you are/were right or to just coddle your confusion and blame what you were blaming. I would rather see you resolve something based on reality and not miss some opportunity just because of something you simply perceived and judged without any basis in reality, all in your head.

Judge him based on how he IS with you, not how long it takes him to get back to you. Later on you can probably learn why he's so flakey with communications. You should also try CALLING instead of texting every once in a while.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Still Waters said:


> He was just trying to save face by turning the whole thing around on you.


Some of you really concern me with the advice you give.


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## Still Waters (Sep 18, 2008)

VanGogh said:


> Some of you really concern me with the advice you give.


Ahhh,you're a sweetie! -I was just giving my opinion,sorry if you don't agree -


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Well, the weekend came and went (almost), and we never went out. I'm really starting to think that this dude is playing games with me. On Wednesday, when I suggested we see a movie, he said he hasn't been to the movies in a while and that it sounded like a great idea. He even called me by a nickname (something he didn't do before). 

I then suggested he take a look at the online schedule to see what movies are being projected, and that we can then decide on what to see. Aaaand... I don't hear from him since.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Your first instincts were probably right. He's not terribly interested.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Well, the weekend came and went (almost), and we never went out. I'm really starting to think that this dude is playing games with me. On Wednesday, when I suggested we see a movie, he said he hasn't been to the movies in a while and that it sounded like a great idea. He even called me by a nickname (something he didn't do before).
> 
> I then suggested he take a look at the online schedule to see what movies are being projected, and that we can then decide on what to see. Aaaand... I don't hear from him since.


You're going to be waiting forever for guys to initiate all the moves for you. Take some initiative.


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## life01 (Feb 20, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> You're going to be waiting forever for guys to initiate all the moves for you. Take some initiative.


 agree 100%


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

It's a very bad sign if the guy is wishy washy from the start. It was very easy to set up dates with all my exes. They were quite keen.


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> You're going to be waiting forever for guys to initiate all the moves for you. Take some initiative.


She has though, she's shown her interest and apparently he hasn't. She was the first to get into contact after their 3rd date, then she suggested going to a movie.

If a girl texts you back the next day after your 3rd date and later suggests a specific date, it's clear that she's interested and wants to go on another date. Saying, "let me know when you are free" is pretty non-committal on his end.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

komorikun said:


> It's a very bad sign if the guy is wishy washy from the start. It was very easy to set up dates with all my *exes*. They were quite keen.


Often hear this when women reference their exes. If your exes were so great, why are they your exes? Perhaps consider getting together with men who don't have the same traits as your exes and you may end up with a catch worth keeping.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> Often hear this when women reference their exes. If your exes were so great, why are they your exes? Perhaps consider getting together with men who don't have the same traits as your exes and you may end up with a catch worth keeping.


I never said they were great. What I'm saying is that in my experience when men are interested it is not hard to set up a date. You don't have to chase after them. Chasing after them is pointless.

You haven't even ever been in a relationship. Yet you are giving dating advice to people?


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

F1X3R said:


> She has though, she's shown her interest and apparently he hasn't. She was the first to get into contact after their 3rd date, then she suggested going to a movie.
> 
> If a girl texts you back the next day after your 3rd date and later suggests a specific date, it's clear that she's interested and wants to go on another date. Saying, "let me know when you are free" is pretty non-committal on his end.


...and apparently she then didn't then let him know when she was free, dropping the ball, then reassuring herself along with the reassurance from some members here that it's the guy who is confusing.

Women can make these kind of mistakes their whole lives and still end up with partners. A lot of men can't make such mistakes or else risk a lot of loneliness.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

komorikun said:


> I never said they were great. What I'm saying is that in my experience when men are interested it is not hard to set up a date. You don't have to chase after them. Chasing after them is pointless.
> 
> You haven't even ever been in a relationship. Yet you are giving dating advice to people?


They haven't had sex yet. Once they do, which probably now will never happen, I can pull off on my advice.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> They haven't had sex yet. Once they do, which probably now will never happen, I can pull off on my advice.


Getting sex is simple and doesn't mean all that much since most men are indiscriminate.


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> ...and apparently she then didn't then let him know when she was free, dropping the ball, then reassuring herself along with the reassurance from some members here that it's the guy who is confusing.
> 
> Women can make these kind of mistakes their whole lives and still end up with partners. A lot of men can't make such mistakes or else risk a lot of loneliness.


You can't deny she made it clear she's interested by texting back the next day after their 3rd date. If a woman does that, then says let's do "this" and you don't follow it up, you're probably not interested. Or you have sa.

And how has he shown his interest? By saying, "let me know when your available"? Notice, it gives him an out, because it doesn't involve him indicating when he is available, even though he claimed he has a busy schedule.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

komorikun said:


> Getting sex is simple and doesn't mean all that much since most men are indiscriminate.


Apparently not the ones she sees as confusing. I suppose she may continue to end up with indiscriminate men who will then become exes?

Grasping what I'm getting at yet? No? Oh well...


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> Apparently not the ones she sees as confusing. I suppose she may continue to end up with indiscriminate men who will then become exes?
> 
> Grasping what I'm getting at yet? No? Oh well...


No, I have no idea what you are going on about.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

F1X3R said:


> You can't deny she made it clear she's interested by texting back the next day after their 3rd date. If a woman does that, then says let's do "this" and you don't follow it up, you're probably not interested. Or you have sa.
> 
> And how has he shown his interest? By saying, "let me know when your available"? Notice, it gives him an out, because it doesn't involve him indicating when he is available, even though he claimed he has a busy schedule.


I'll give you an example.

Today I spent time with a girl I'm interested in. I held off on sex or anything sexual today because I want to try to build up something positive with her and I know myself and how I get when I pursue sex primarily. Hanging out with her today was vastly easier than before and I'll tell you why - the first 2 times I met up with her was like pulling teeth, in fact the first attempt even fizzled. Not because she didn't want to meet but because she was a mess in terms of organizing her time. I would try to meet when we apparently were both free yet I was learning that she wasn't REALLY free (for whatever reason) and was always taking forever to get herself ready to go out.

It was frustrating. She would try to pinpoint when I was available, I'd make myself available, then I'd feel like my time was being wasted.

I realized what I was dealing with early on and decided to pull back and, instead, gauge when she was available and then gave myself some time leeway past that knowing she would take a while to situate herself. The more patience I showed and the less I chased for specific times, the more interested she seemed and the more dependable she seemed to get in terms of making herself available. Making MYSELF available was just running me in circles with her. Reversing that actually made things work. This last time, in fact, meeting up she was the one who reached out to me a few days ago and wanted to hang out and I did exactly like what this guy did with the OP: I gauged her by asking when she would be available and offered up something we could do together. I didn't hear back from her for a day, she txt'd me, I txt'd back, she asked me a question and I didn't reply at all for a day and she finally txt's back again with a specific time. We met up, hung out, and had a nice time.

One of the women responding here to knock my advice because of my lack of experience RELATIONSHIPS but I damn well know how to gauge what's going on with people wanting to meet or not meet and why some people act in certain ways. I saw exactly what was happening to the OP with his guy and I'm not changing my stance on it. She's just choosing to read the situation a certain way in order to maintain a comfortable zone for her ego and to feel "right" rather than take the actions necessary to make something work.

I may not know much about being in relationships but I do know they are two-way streets. It may seem like a guy is being put-offish by putting the ball in the girl's court and not behaving in a way that seems like chasing, but in reality he may be a BETTER guy than one simply trying to get into her pants & succeeds (because the pattern of behavior matches what she THINKS should happen) then months or years later the guy becomes her ex that drives her nuts.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

So a 40 year old guy who has never been in a relationship doesn't want to hear dating advice from women unless they are married? Makes sense. :roll


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> I'll give you an example...


 Possibly, but I can only go by what she said, and especially since she has sa, I can understand her hesitation in putting herself out there any further. I don't see why this guy would doubt whether she's interested though.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

komorikun said:


> So a 40 year old guy who has never been in a relationship doesn't want to hear dating advice from women unless they are married? Makes sense. :roll


Continue the whole "eye roll" type responses I've seen plenty of here, it's really helpful. You're so right and I'm so wrong. It's all about my narrow mind and clearly my feeble attempts in life to figure this out.

Women give the absolute WORST dating advice to guys who've spent their lives not succeeding the way they want, as if those women understand the issue. They give this terrible advice all while believing their advice is golden.

I can recount all the advice women have given to me over the years, whether they were single, dating, married, whatever, and whether they were friends, family, coworkers or someone I flat out did not know. Recounting all of it, I can tell you for sure it was all rubbish. The absolute only thing it could ever lead to which would be seen by the advice-giver as "success" is for me to have lowered my standards so low as to force myself to be happy with a hugely obese minger with a harsh personality just for the sake of somehow not being lonely.

What HAS worked for me, at least so far as my personal experiences, is trial & error and occasionally some advice from other men who've had to deal with the same sour luck in their early years. I try, I make a mistake, I learn, I do better next time.

I have trouble opening up, trust issues, it takes a while for me to take my masks off. I understand this, those are my issues, they take a long time to fix. I didn't want those issues, they were built into me over the years dealing with what I had to deal with. Often times I see exactly what SHOULD be happening but unable to make it happen.

I would love to go around asking thousands of women who are in great relationships HOW those relationships started and get honest and clear information about what actually happened from the very first exchange of eye contact to the moment where they were truly "together". I have done this on a small scale, asked dozens of women over the years about what happened. The problem is that the answers seem to fall into 2 categories. The first is they are clueless as to what happened and can't clearly define how it all happened. The second is the guy appealed to them physically first, they made sure to put themselves in front of him (like they would any guy they found physically appealing) and he happened to be the one who took the bait and took action.

Most women think they are relationship experts simply because they have so many more opportunities thrown at them by men. That is a totally different perspective than the one that comes from a guy who has to work really hard to get past his flaws (both physical and emotional) to get noticed in the first place. Then have to do all the work up front and risk a hell of a lot more in hurt feelings and rejection. This is never going to be understood or appreciated by the opposite sex, and heaven forbid a guy who has seen quite a bit and knows quite a bit about the process (even though he himself has trouble with achieving a chunk of it) tries so share sane advice instead of coddling continual train wrecks for the sake of purely empathizing with someone seeking advice.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

F1X3R said:


> Possibly, but I can only go by what she said, and especially since she has sa, I can understand her hesitation in putting herself out there any further. I don't see why this guy would doubt whether she's interested though.


I don't think he was doubting, there is just some elements of this that we don't know.

It's possible he was dealing with an awkward process with her to actually get her out to meet and is just trying to avoid having his time wasted even though he can clearly see she's interested and even if he is interested. So the OP has SA yet she doesn't define exactly how she met up with this guy the first 3 dates. If she had no issue doing that then how does she even belong on this forum? So with her having SA then there were elements about what happened to achieve those 3 dates which may not have gone so smoothly, especially for the guy.

That's what I meant by her continuing to repeat this kind of confusion unless she's willing to take real initiative from her end. Yes it may feel like the guy is being dodgy but just remember it's coming from her perspective and interpretation. In fact having SA requires her to have more initiative to overcompensate to achieve something with someone who isn't going to make himself as available as guys who just want sex and happen to have to confidence (or desperation) to keep chasing her and not requiring her to do anything.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> Continue the whole "eye roll" type responses I've seen plenty of here, it's really helpful. You're so right and I'm so wrong. It's all about my narrow mind and clearly my feeble attempts in life to figure this out.
> 
> Women give the absolute WORST dating advice to guys who've spent their lives not succeeding the way they want, as if those women understand the issue. They give this terrible advice all while believing their advice is golden.
> 
> ...


You think I had tons of opportunities for relationships? I did not. I took what I could get and I found it through trial and error just as you. And I have been rejected many, many times (not by the exes though). In fact, I think the rejection that women have to deal with is quite bad (of course you know nothing about how that happens). I don't think I'm a relationship expert and I'm not giving advice to a man now. I'm giving advice to a woman based on my experiences.

Where do you get off calling the OP a train wreck? And why is your advice somehow so much better than other people's? You just sound like a big know-it-all.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

komorikun said:


> You think I had tons of opportunities for relationships? I did not. I took what I could get and I found it through trial and error just as you. And I have been rejected many, many times (not by the exes though). In fact, I think the rejection that women have to deal with is quite bad (of course you know nothing about how that happens). I don't think I'm a relationship expert and I'm not giving advice to a man now. I'm giving advice to a woman based on my experiences.
> 
> Where do you get off calling the OP a train wreck? And why is your advice somehow so much better than other people's? You just sound like a big know-it-all.


I was referring to the situation as a train wreck, not the OP.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

komorikun said:


> You think I had tons of opportunities for relationships? I did not. I took what I could get and I found it through trial and error just as you. And I have been rejected many, many times (not by the exes though). In fact, I think the rejection that women have to deal with is quite bad (of course you know nothing about how that happens). I don't think I'm a relationship expert and I'm not giving advice to a man now. I'm giving advice to a woman based on my experiences.


The OP was confused by a guy's behavior and I was, as a guy, especially one who might act like that guy (though for different reasons), explaining it so it wasn't confusing to her. Apparently that's a bad thing.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> The OP was confused by a guy's behavior and I was, as a guy, especially one who might act like that guy (though for different reasons), explaining it so it wasn't confusing to her. Apparently that's a bad thing.


It's okay to explain your thinking. But making huge assumptions and personal attacks about other posters giving different advice is not cool.

And your example doesn't really have much to do with the OP since she never said she was flaky or hard to make a date with.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the input, all. I think I'm just going to forget about this guy. I don't know what's going on in his head, but whatever it is, I don't want to deal with it. His behaviour is too inconsistent and I have no intentions of chasing after him. 

He seems to have a lot of issues, too - recent death of a close relative and recent break up with a long term girlfriend. The fact that he met 6 girls from the dating site and didn't like any of them (even complaining that they were annoying him with all the calls) makes me wonder what the hell is he looking for. Maybe he hasn't gotten over his ex, I don't know. But whatever it is - I'm happy to say I'm through with this one!


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Thanks for the input, all. I think I'm just going to forget about this guy. I don't know what's going on in his head, but whatever it is, I don't want to deal with it. His behaviour is too inconsistent and I have no intentions of chasing after him.
> 
> He seems to have a lot of issues, too - recent death of a close relative and recent break up with a long term girlfriend. The fact that he met 6 girls from the dating site and didn't like any of them (even complaining that they were annoying him with all the calls) makes me wonder what the hell is he looking for. Maybe he hasn't gotten over his ex, I don't know. But whatever it is - I'm happy to say I'm through with this one!


I'm curious how your SA played a role in any of this? Did it come up at all in trying to meet or on any of the 3 dates?


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't think it played much of a role. I'm pretty much over SA now but have to deal with the left-overs of not having much experience with people. On the first date, he did say "come on, talk..." semi-jokingly when there was a silence, which kind of hurt, even though he didn't mean it too seriously. But other than that, I honestly don't think it played a role. He wasn't much of a talker either.

I deleted my online profile weeks ago and don't think I'll go back anytime soon. There are too many fakes on there and there's a lot of sifting to go through in order to find somebody normal. Even then, the guys I've met from online were typically flaky and inconsistent. Guys who approached me in real life seemed a lot more interested and determined to get me.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> I don't think it played much of a role. I'm pretty much over SA now but have to deal with the left-overs of not having much experience with people. On the first date, he did say "come on, talk..." semi-jokingly when there was a silence, which kind of hurt, even though he didn't mean it too seriously. But other than that, I honestly don't think it played a role. He wasn't much of a talker either.
> 
> I deleted my online profile weeks ago and don't think I'll go back anytime soon. There are too many fakes on there and there's a lot of sifting to go through in order to find somebody normal. Even then, the guys I've met from online were typically flaky and inconsistent. Guys who approached me in real life seemed a lot more interested and determined to get me.


I can say for sure it's the same for me and online. I barely ever meet any women online yet in "real life" the kind of responses I get are mostly OK.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Van Gogh, you and I should date. I like older men, and you, on the other hand, are familiar with my oh-so-sensitive needs.  

Yeah, I'm just kidding, lol.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Van Gogh, you and I should date. I like older men, and you, on the other hand, are familiar with my oh-so-sensitive needs.
> 
> Yeah, I'm just kidding, lol.


Maybe we already met before LOL.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

^Yeah... maybe I'm one of those who contributed to your belief that dating women is a nightmare, hahaha

Anyhow... another day, another guy... there's a new guy who caught my attention and I'm not sure whether he likes me or not. We met at the place where I volunteer at. He was doing some business with my "boss." When I first saw him, he was SO incredibly good looking (translation: out of my league), lol. I didn't even consider him as a potential partner - there's no way he would be interested in me. We chatted a bit about his job; I though what he did was very interesting and something I've been interested in doing myself. He asked me about what kind of job I'm looking for, in case he knows someone. It was only a casual, 10 minute chat. At some point I thought he was gay, because of the way he talked, lol. 

And then yesterday, he showed up at my office. He said he was looking for my boss. I told him the boss isn't here and offered to give him a call. But he said no; he had errands to run and didn't have much time anyway. He asked me how things are going; I told him I'm still looking for work. He said he has a friend who might have a gig for me. She's travelling at the moment, but when she gets back, he can tell her about me and give her my number. He asked me for my number and I gave it to him. And then he was off. 

I thought it was kind of weird that he'd just drop by like that, without calling my boss first to check if he was in the office. Because my boss usually works from home or is running errands himself, and 95% time is not in. 

And later that day, at around 7pm, this guy calls me to ask whether I have another contact number for my boss. He tried calling his cell phone, but it was turned off, and wanted to know if he had a second cell phone, or a landline perhaps. I told him I didn't have any other contact number for him, he could try later, I guess... 

Afterwards I couldn't help wondering whether this guy is interested in me (considering he dropped by the office and then later called for no good reason, lol). Maybe I'm reading too much into this; maybe the dude just had a burning desire to get through to my boss last evening. Or maybe not? Hmm. Time will tell, I guess.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Well he has your # and if he has the balls he will ask you out.

Or... he will continue to run in circles indirectly trying to gauge your interest level (if he is actually interested himself) and take eons to make a move. I'm curious what your cutoff would be in terms of how much interest you might lose in him based on the time it takes him to show undeniable interest?


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't have a set cutoff time, lol. He could let me know whenever.


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## AmandaMarie87 (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow. Your situation sounds almost the same as my last dating experience.


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## AmandaMarie87 (Apr 24, 2013)

Only difference in my case was that he never said that they weren't dates.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

Yeah, I don't get some people...

I guess all we can do is move on from them and realize there better things out there


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## TheManInTheRedSuit (Mar 30, 2013)

veron said:


> Yeah, I don't get some people...
> 
> I guess all we can do is move on from them and realize there better things out there


:clap


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> I don't have a set cutoff time, lol. He could let me know whenever.


OK, that makes me curious about something then.

You perceived the first guy having a lack of interest in you because he takes a while to reply, but this other guy who has yet to ask you out or display romantic interest -- you don't have a cutoff for when you would think he's not interested? So if he called you 3 months from now...?


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

There's a difference between the two, because I had gone on 3 dates with the former one. He knew that I was single and interested and it wouldn't have taken much to get me. This second one doesn't really know anything about me; we also met in a business type setting where it isn't that common to ask people out.

By the way, he showed up at the office again last Friday, lol. Once again, he was looking for the boss (who wasn't there). I ran into him in the hallway just as I was getting back from lunch. He didn't try to talk to me. I asked him whether he was looking for my boss, he said yes, and asked me whether the boss was in today. He had a smile on his face. But he seemed to be in a hurry and quickly left. I still have no idea whether there's something there or not...


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> There's a difference between the two, because I had gone on 3 dates with the former one. He knew that I was single and interested and it wouldn't have taken much to get me. This second one doesn't really know anything about me; we also met in a business type setting where it isn't that common to ask people out.
> 
> By the way, he showed up at the office again last Friday, lol. Once again, he was looking for the boss (who wasn't there). I ran into him in the hallway just as I was getting back from lunch. He didn't try to talk to me. I asked him whether he was looking for my boss, he said yes, and asked me whether the boss was in today. He had a smile on his face. But he seemed to be in a hurry and quickly left. I still have no idea whether there's something there or not...


It's a good thing you're not a guy. You'd have to take a risk of rejection to find out. Eventually, some guy somewhere at some time will talk to you and ask you out and you may have to settle for that random future guy rather than taking initiative with a guy that seems to appeal to you but remains a mystery. Or what if he already asked your boss if you're single? So it's possible he knows you're single but is taking a long time to do anything. I guess you might never know...


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Man. There's a lot of anger being expressed in this thread. I've never been in this sub-forum before and I'm thinking it's going to be a pandoras box of bad memories and emotional hang ups. Why can people just chill out about the whole thing. Wait until you've actually been rejected and don't go pre-emptively rejecting the other person on a paranoid whim. Ffs. Get ahold of yourselves...


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

VanGogh said:


> It's a good thing you're not a guy. You'd have to take a risk of rejection to find out. Eventually, some guy somewhere at some time will talk to you and ask you out and you may have to settle for that random future guy rather than taking initiative with a guy that seems to appeal to you but remains a mystery. Or what if he already asked your boss if you're single? So it's possible he knows you're single but is taking a long time to do anything. I guess you might never know...


Huh? Your point being...?


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm sure he knew it was a date. Well, now that you are free from him, you can find someone better.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

veron said:


> Huh? Your point being...?


The same point I had before. You will go through a lot of cycles of confusion over men because you aren't taking initiative on your end.

You titled this thread "Another confusing guy" and I've mentioned before a few times that the confusion is actually coming from you. I'm pretty sure the guys are not confused nor are they acting confusing.

My sole advice to you to resolve this revolving door of "confusing guys" continues to be: take initiative.

The next time this new guy shows up at your office "looking for your boss", just say to him "you seem to be looking for him a lot, what's your story?" and have a conversation with him and IN THAT CONVERSATION lead it to making sure you know if he's single and that he knows you are single.

Then your confusion will be over. If he asks you out, you will know. If he doesn't, you will know.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

lilyamongthorns said:


> I'm sure he knew it was a date. Well, now that you are free from him, you can find someone better.


I agree 100% 



VanGogh said:


> My sole advice to you to resolve this revolving door of "confusing guys" continues to be: take initiative.


Well, I'll try. He always seems to be in a hurry though, which doesn't make it convenient to chat. Also, now that holidays are coming up, I won't be in the office for like a week... I also have a few interviews lined up, and if I get a job, I won't be back there at all :/

It doesn't appear that anything will come out of this. Unless he calls me again, lol. I don't have his cell phone. The one time he called, it was from a landline, and since he didn't exactly give me that number, I don't even know if it's his. For all I know, it could be his girlfriend's, haha.

Btw, I never said this one's confusing. He isn't. I'm just speculating.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

I just meant to say, if the opportunity comes up again at least try to be in the role of taking initiative. If it never comes up, it'll just be a lesson for the future to at least try to progress things from your end rather than being passive.

You could very well have multiple men of your dreams escape your access because your passivity in moving things along might keep you in a state of perpetual waiting. If you only see yourself getting together with men who initiate all the steps then your pool of men will be limited to just those guys.


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