# Are there any countries where quiet males are appreciated by the women there?



## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

So it would surely seem that quiet, introverted guys like me are absolutely not appreciated by the majority of women in westernized society.......so im wondering if this is the case for the rest of the world?

Maybe theres somewhere in the world were guys like us are appreciated by the women?

Anyone know of anywhere like that? Cos i would consider moving there.....


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## Deathinmusic (Jun 5, 2009)

I believe the people in Scandinavian countries tend to value silence a little more and don't tend to freak out as much when there's a quiet pause in a conversation. Some SA'ers would probably be happier in a country like that.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Deathinmusic said:


> I believe the people in Scandinavian countries tend to value silence a little more and don't tend to freak out as much when there's a quiet pause in a conversation. Some SA'ers would probably be happier in a country like that.


Nope :um


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## BluButterfly (May 26, 2011)

in BluButterfly land


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## Empress_D (Jan 18, 2009)

I don't think it matters where you're located but more so you need to find a girl who is more like you & believe me they do exist


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## strugglingforhope (Jun 13, 2009)

This is a basic Biological thing. Unfortunately there's no safe haven where we would be appreciated; but there may be places that are better than others. It makes sense that some places might be more inclined to think a shy male could be considered more dominant. However human nature won't allow it to completely change the game as you'd like.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

only dumb people like loudness


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

nemesis1 said:


> majority of women in westernized society.......


oh yeahh, that's exactly what I'm talking about


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Sure mang. India. Well, they're not so much appreciated by the women but by their family who arrange the marriage for the women. Women love their usual confident, over-the-top film star like dudes, like everywhere else. But you're white, so you have an advantage anyway.

Maybe not in Bombay though. Being too quiet here will just lead to you getting taken advantage of.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Majority of women in westernized society don't like u? How do u know that?


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## LostProphet (Apr 4, 2010)

I don't think things will be better in another country. People in general (not just females) are attracted towards charisma and open friendliness.



Some Russian Guy said:


> only dumb people like loudness


Seriously?


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Japan Japan Japan Japan Japan Japan


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> Majority of women in westernized society don't like u? How do u know that?


31 years of experience tell me so.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

nemesis1 said:


> 31 years of experience tell me so.


And, in those 31 years of experience, u have always been right about everything?

If I set you on fire, wud u be quiet? Probably not. But u have assumptions about who u r and you seem to believe u also have mind reading powers that tell u that u r somehow not appreciated by all women and it must be because of some things about u which revolve around u behaving in shy ways sometimes.

31 years of experience? Well, soon after birth, I'm guessing you made quite a bit of noise to make sure you got fed and a woman or someone came to you and made sure u didn't die of hunger.

I say all this with respect and love. Because I have 29 years of experiences and they tell me a lot. But I can't always trust them.

People call me quiet sometimes. Shy too. And I do alright with women. It's not the quietness or the shyness that pushes them away. It's that when you r adamant that you are somehow not worthy or good enough because of some things you do or how u behave, it's hard for the women to argue with u.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

The Philippines is your best bet. Or any countries that aren't plagued by radical feminism.

In america you are ostracized.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

If you think shyness is the reason why you can't get girls then try not being so shy. Yeah, I know, I'm a big help, I know:b


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## benyamin (May 11, 2010)

japan


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## emptybottle2 (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes, Japan.



stranger25 said:


> The Philippines is your best bet. Or any countries that aren't plagued by radical feminism.


lol no, Filipinos are the most outgoing (and least nerdy) of Asian guys, whether or not they were born in the US.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

strugglingforhope said:


> This is a basic Biological thing. Unfortunately there's no safe haven where we would be appreciated; but there may be places that are better than others. It makes sense that some places might be more inclined to think a shy male could be considered more dominant. However human nature won't allow it to completely change the game as you'd like.


I agree with this guy.

Loudness, confidence, alpha male personality, being outgoing is attractive to women because it's seen as value. Read or watch any PUA stuff to learn more about that.

It's often frustrating because those traits also tend to go in hand at least a lot of the time with jerk types, arrogance, big headedness, narcassism etc. But it's not those traits as such it's the underlying one's previously mentioned. It allows women to feel comfortable, or see something to pursue - value.

It's hardwired unfortunately. It's a bit cynical but being nice has nothing to do with being good at forming networks if you don't have the personality to go with it. Nice people who are also shy often get walked over infact.

I mean maybe in a low percentage of women who are consciously aware of this too might actively avoid the types described and actively go for quiet, retiring men instead but I don't think there are many.

By the way I'm absolutely horrid with people and women especially so I'm not trying to sound like some cool pro or anything. I just had this friend who was kind of a loud, arrogant, rude arse, not bothered about anything (but a good guy and my friend really). He was just one of those types, the guy who always pulled. So I noticed things, then read up a lot and it all confirmed it. It's true really.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Asian countries, mostly.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

> Loudness, confidence, alpha male personality, being outgoing is attractive to women because it's seen as value. Read or watch any PUA stuff to learn more about that.


Hmm...I'm just gonna say that I personally know some people mentioned in The Game and...well...if u think they've "cracked the code" you are in for one big let down.



> It's often frustrating because those traits also tend to go in hand at least a lot of the time with jerk types, arrogance, big headedness, narcassism etc. But it's not those traits as such it's the underlying one's previously mentioned. It allows women to feel comfortable, or see something to pursue - value.


So, anything that apparently has or is perceived to have value somehow turns me on?

Really? My shares in companies are very valuable. Not thinking about them a lot though, to be honest. Arrogance is not confidence. Big headedness is not confidence. So no, the traits don't automatically go together.



> It's hardwired unfortunately. It's a bit cynical but being nice has nothing to do with being good at forming networks if you don't have the personality to go with it. Nice people who are also shy often get walked over infact.


Yes, mostly because they don't stand up for themselves not because of any guesswork about things being hardwired. Lots of evidence to suggest communication and the ability to communicate is "hard wired" into all of us and yet here some of us are with SA. How's that work? Can you be a good person and form lots of networks? Yes, yes and yes.



> I mean maybe in a low percentage of women who are consciously aware of this too might actively avoid the types described and actively go for quiet, retiring men instead but I don't think there are many.


Women go for lots of different types, shapes, sizes etc of guys. That's a fact. People fall for people not types. Assumptions about women all following some pattern are really not born out in the real world.



> By the way I'm absolutely horrid with people and women especially so I'm not trying to sound like some cool pro or anything. I just had this friend who was kind of a loud, arrogant, rude arse, not bothered about anything (but a good guy and my friend really). He was just one of those types, the guy who always pulled. So I noticed things, then read up a lot and it all confirmed it. It's true really.


How do you know he didn't pull because he was a good guy? You read some PUA books. Some bits of PUA can help if adapted. Most of it will drive you bonkers.

And, with respect and love to everyone, is it just me who notices that shouting out: "I am a quiet male! Women don't appreciate quiet males which I clearly am as I'm shouting loudly about this on the internet" is a bit ironic?

I mean, if a quiet man tells you he's not appreciated because he's quiet, doesn't said man have to not be quiet to tell you all that in the first place? Just a thought.


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Korea


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## Choci Loni (May 12, 2011)

Deathinmusic said:


> I believe the people in Scandinavian countries tend to value silence a little more and don't tend to freak out as much when there's a quiet pause in a conversation. Some SA'ers would probably be happier in a country like that.


For that reason, I am quite happy with living in Sweden - it's actually true, partially.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> Hmm...I'm just gonna say that I personally know some people mentioned in The Game and...well...if u think they've "cracked the code" you are in for one big let down.


Naa. It's not like some holy grail, but a lot of it makes sense. It's interesting at least.



joinmartin said:


> So, anything that apparently has or is perceived to have value somehow turns me on?
> 
> Really? My shares in companies are very valuable. Not thinking about them a lot though, to be honest. Arrogance is not confidence. Big headedness is not confidence. So no, the traits don't automatically go together.


Shares, wealth is not at all what I was talking about. I think you should give some of this more credit also.

Big headedness is a manisfestation of confidence. I'm not saying they are the same thing.



joinmartin said:


> Yes, mostly because they don't stand up for themselves not because of any guesswork about things being hardwired. Lots of evidence to suggest communication and the ability to communicate is "hard wired" into all of us and yet here some of us are with SA. How's that work? Can you be a good person and form lots of networks? Yes, yes and yes.


Many of them don't stand up for themselves because they are _too_ nice. That's part of my point. They are overly passive, agreeable, conflict avoidant, run round after people types. This sadly often means they get steam rolled by less curteous people. There's some degree of correlation.

Of course you can be a good person and form lot's of networks. It has little to do with it though. You can also be a quite a false, superficial person, maybe a bit shallow, kind of spiteful, huffy and narcassistic, only ever talks about facebook and football 95% of the time, tells rascist jokes. But damn tells them well and sure good at the banter and have far more many friends than the other type.

Being nice, kindness, 'a good person' is not being good at talking to people or selling yourself to the opposite sex was the point I was making. Though altruism comes into it slightly.



joinmartin said:


> Women go for lots of different types, shapes, sizes etc of guys. That's a fact. People fall for people not types. Assumptions about women all following some pattern are really not born out in the real world.


I think you're taking me too literally. I never meant it as a strict rule. I think there are general attractive traits though, not talking about only the physical there.



joinmartin said:


> How do you know he didn't pull because he was a good guy? You read some PUA books. Some bits of PUA can help if adapted. Most of it will drive you bonkers.


Well, he's kind of self centred and rude, loud. One of those people that would just come out with random insulting, inflammatory/provocative comments. But also one of those 'gift of the gab' type people. Because he's able to talk in a confident, humerous way, don't give a crap attitude he was able to sell it.



joinmartin said:


> And, with respect and love to everyone, is it just me who notices that shouting out: "I am a quiet male! Women don't appreciate quiet males which I clearly am as I'm shouting loudly about this on the internet" is a bit ironic?
> 
> I mean, if a quiet man tells you he's not appreciated because he's quiet, doesn't said man have to not be quiet to tell you all that in the first place? Just a thought.


On the _for most part annonamous_ internet. On a venting board. So it's totally not the same.

When I was talking about being nice, kindness by the way. Please don't take my cynicism as the view that you shouldn't be nice or it's a waste of time. Kindness is a noble trait. Altruism does have a degree of value.


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## angus (Dec 18, 2010)

China and Japan


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

> Naa. It's not like some holy grail, but a lot of it makes sense. It's interesting at least.


Well, some of it can. But nobody has "cracked the code" on this one. I've been in nightclubs with PUAs and seen them get rejected a lot. That's the stuff that never made it into the "infield videos".



> Shares, wealth is not at all what I was talking about. I think you should give some of this more credit also.
> Big headedness is a manisfestation of confidence. I'm not saying they are the same thing.


I was making a point that that which is valuable or perceived to be so is not automatically sexually attractive or attractive so the assumption that attraction revolves around value is a dodgy one.

Big headedness is not a manifestation of confidence. Confidence has no need to be big headed. Big headedness is a manifestation of arrogance. Arrogance is not confidence. If you are confident and secure in yourself, why be big headed? Why show off?



> Many of them don't stand up for themselves because they are _too_ nice. That's part of my point. They are overly passive, agreeable, conflict avoidant, run round after people types. This sadly often means they get steam rolled by less curteous people. There's some degree of correlation.


Not quite. You can still be an awful person and get used by people. If a "good" person stands up for themselves, it works. It's the fear not the aspect of the self that holds a person back. Fear of standing up for yourself not being unable to stand up for yourself because of some assumed aspect of self. If I set a "nice" person on fire, he's not gonna sit there and take it.



> Of course you can be a good person and form lot's of networks. It has little to do with it though. You can also be a quite a false, superficial person, maybe a bit shallow, kind of spiteful, huffy and narcassistic, only ever talks about facebook and football 95% of the time, tells rascist jokes. But damn tells them well and sure good at the banter and have far more many friends than the other type.


It can have everything to do with it. A friend of mine can be a bit racist sometimes. I'm not happy about it but I know, deep down, that she is a good person. She's shown it time and time again. It's not about the banter. Its about the person. You can be a good person and be positively judged because of that fact. I know a lot of people on here fear that isn't true but it is. I'm shy, I'm quiet and I've never been short of friends.



> Being nice, kindness, 'a good person' is not being good at talking to people or selling yourself to the opposite sex was the point I was making. Though altruism comes into it slightly.


Well, that's false. The blanket assumption that being a good person and being kind automatically means you're not good at talking to people or selling yourself is nonsense. The fear stops people. Not who you actually are. Communication and expression get hampered by fear. You can sell yourself to other people by being a good person and by being kind. If you don't apologise for who you are.



> I think you're taking me too literally. I never meant it as a strict rule. I think there are general attractive traits though, not talking about only the physical there.


Perhaps. People on here seem to love the general and would rather make broad predictions about women in general then think about how to connect with the women they actually meet in their lives. But when one considers that "confidence" can and does mean different things to different people, looking for general themes, trends and patterns is one heck of a dodgy approach.



> Well, he's kind of self centred and rude, loud. One of those people that would just come out with random insulting, inflammatory/provocative comments. But also one of those 'gift of the gab' type people. Because he's able to talk in a confident, humerous way, don't give a crap attitude he was able to sell it.


That is your interpretation of your friend and what he does. You assume it's about the things he doe and behaviours. But it could equally be about who he is as a person and that the behaviours are a reflection of the good person he is. Not that he talks in a confident way but that he can be confident as a person, confident in himself and that then manifests in confident expressions. Not that he talks in a humuorous way but that he is a funny guy.



> On the _for most part annonamous_ internet. On a venting board. So it's totally not the same.


People have usernames on here and people can find out who people are and people can express themselves so no, it's the same.

Quiet is something you do not automatically something you are. But time and time again people give themselves some identity, assume it to be a negative and then complain that people discriminate against them based on some identity they came up with five seconds ago.



> When I was talking about being nice, kindness by the way. Please don't take my cynicism as the view that you shouldn't be nice or it's a waste of time. Kindness is a noble trait. Altruism does have a degree of value.


It is the fact that being a good person is not automatically a negative and that it is also attractive to people in many instances and contexts that I am getting across. That seeking to apologise for the self will get people nowhere. That trying to become something other than them will also get them nowhere.

I am a good guy. Some people can't stand me. Some people think I'm insane. Some people love me. And a lot of people like me.

Be who you are first. Then that opens you up to becoming who you want to be.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> I was making a point that that which is valuable or perceived to be so is not automatically sexually attractive or attractive so the assumption that attraction revolves around value is a dodgy one.


People have different tastes but accross a population there is going to be a majority.



joinmartin said:


> Big headedness is not a manifestation of confidence. Confidence has no need to be big headed. Big headedness is a manifestation of arrogance. Arrogance is not confidence. If you are confident and secure in yourself, why be big headed? Why show off?


If we are talking about narcassists, I just can't see them lacking confidence in the socially outgoing respect we are talking about. I can't see them acting how they do without that self assuredness. I would call it _'wrong'_ or _a 'bad way to_ _be'_ but I'd still call it confidence.

Contrastingly I can see a person with low self esteem who hardly ever talks or approaches people, the reticent type to generally have low confidence.



joinmartin said:


> Not quite. You can still be an awful person and get used by people. If a "good" person stands up for themselves, it works. It's the fear not the aspect of the self that holds a person back. Fear of standing up for yourself not being unable to stand up for yourself because of some assumed aspect of self. If I set a "nice" person on fire, he's not gonna sit there and take it.


That's really well put actually. Good point. Although I don't think anyone would let you set fire to them.

You really can't see the scenario of an overly nice person running around after people, finds it hard to say 'no' because they want to help everyone eventually braking after carrying such a load? It's not dissimilar to how a lot of people get depression. Again it comes back to imbalances.



joinmartin said:


> It can have everything to do with it. A friend of mine can be a bit racist sometimes. I'm not happy about it but I know, deep down, that she is a good person. She's shown it time and time again. It's not about the banter. Its about the person. You can be a good person and be positively judged because of that fact. I know a lot of people on here fear that isn't true but it is. I'm shy, I'm quiet and I've never been short of friends.


I can't disagree more here. So we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.



joinmartin said:


> The blanket assumption that being a good person and being kind automatically means you're not good at talking to people or selling yourself is nonsense.


Absolutely not what I meant at all.



joinmartin said:


> The fear stops people. Not who you actually are. Communication and expression get hampered by fear. You can sell yourself to other people by being a good person and by being kind. If you don't apologise for who you are.


That's a nice thought and I can see communication/expression blocking a person from being able to transmit their good qualities, effectively cutting themselves short. I think you are correct. It is cynical of me but I still think there has to be a cut off point when you try to please others or you risk being used. I still see mountains of evidence in the other direction. The jerk alpha male boss, the superficial cool popular kids in school, the pig type guy who manages to get layed all of the time then women feel disgusted after 2 days of being with them, yet still keep going for that type. I know I sound like the typical bitter SA male looking for something to blame but that's the thing I keep seeing over again.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Choci Loni said:


> For that reason, I am quite happy with living in Sweden - it's actually true, partially.


I've heard that it is quite common for women to ask men out in Sweden. Is that true?


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Russia


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## roseflora (Jun 26, 2011)

okaay said:


> We should start our own island.


Haha, totally love that idea.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

I'd say Japan.

I'd really love to live in Tokyo.


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## OpiodArmor (Jun 15, 2011)

> If you stop paying attention to a narcissist, see how confident he or she gets in response. Socially outgoing is also not the same as "confident". You get girls in big groups who are confident but get them on their own and they've been worrying about their weight for five months to the extent of wanting to hurt themselves over it. Same with guys who look outgoing on the surface. That's not self assuredness at all.
> 
> If you act as if you need the attention on your always, that's an expression of need not confidence so the narcissist is not showing self assuredness at all either. Or confidence.


Erm narcissistic people are narcissist's because they view themselves as superior/awesome. They have this view constantly, their not putting on a "front" like you are assuming.

Narcissistic people are some of the most confident people in the world, literally. It does not matter if it is not justified, they just FEEL that they are amazing. Hence the disorder.

And I don't see why you don't understand that arrogance is indeed confidences ugly big brother. It's basically the same thing only a confident person might not SAY he is confident while a arrogant person will indeed state this.

And you were asking why would someone who is confident need to say he is confident? It's simple really: Because it's fun. It's fun being REALLY good at something and bragging your *** off, rubbing it in lesser skilled peoples faces. Haven't you ever been the best at something in a group of people and just talked loads of smack? Probably not, you need to be a bit of a ***. But the reason people (I) do it is because it's ****ing fun. It feels good, it's that simple.


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## Oscar7 (May 20, 2011)

Yeah, Japan I think values it. But I'm not sure. I do know I want to go to Japan one day. I'll let you know if I ever go....


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

Germany?


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## IcemanKilmer (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm assuming it's overrated in other countries. The USA's dating world is the way it is as a result of biology. There is still biology in other countries, so it can't be that much different.


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