# Vitamin Supplements -- Too much of a good thing?



## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

When I pick up my bottle of multivitamins at the store, I notice that, a little bit down the shelf, there are brands that offer huge, whopping vitamin megadoses with tens or hundreds of times the daily value. Of course, I was a little skeptical about the value of these, but when I did some research, I found that the regular multivitamin supplements seem to be about as worthless as these megadoses and that, in some cases the megadoses can be harmful.

Some resources:



> There is a clear trend in the evidence we have to date. The benefits of routine supplementation are unproven. High doses of vitamins probably cause more harm than good. If you are concerned about your nutrition then improve your diet.
> 
> Further, as with good science-based medicine in general, questions must be specific. We should not ask - do vitamins work. Rather we need to consider specific supplementation in specific situations and conditions.
> 
> What may surprise members of the public who have been exposed for years to the propaganda of a supplement industry eager to take their money, or CAM proponents eager to appear legitimate - is that vitamins have always been part of mainstream science-based medicine. There is a tremendous amount of quality research to inform our conclusions about vitamins, and they are part of everyday practice.


http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=372



> Randomized clinical trials are designed to test one factor at a time, but vitamins and minerals consumed as part of a healthy diet work in concert with each other.
> "You don't eat a food that just has beta carotene in it," said Dr. Mary L. Hardy, medical director of the Simms/Mann UCLA Center for Integrative Oncology, who focuses on the importance of diet and supplements for cancer patients.
> What's more, she said, vitamins manufactured into pills are not identical to vitamins that occur naturally in foods, so the clinical trials don't test the exact compounds that may have been key in earlier studies.
> "Is this apples and apples, or is this apples and crab apples, or is this apples and peaches?" said Hardy, who sits on the scientific advisory board of the company that sells Nature Made and other brands of vitamins. "It's hard to know what to say."
> ...


http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/21/science/sci-vitamins21



> For a healthy adult, if supplements are used, they should generally be taken at levels close to the recommended dietary intake (RDI). High-dose supplements should not be taken unless recommended under medical advice.


http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Vitamins_common_misconceptions

A well-balanced diet should cover most vitamin intake. However, it seems that Vitamin D deficiency is the most common. Mayo Clinic ranks the research on links between different illnesses and Vitamin D.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind/DSECTION=evidence


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

Of course they're unnecessary. It's just preying on the wide spread misconception that vitamins are supa cures for everything. And fair play to them. Watching nervous mothers force feed their children omega 3 because they think it'll make them more brainy is pretty entertaining.


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## robertz (Feb 4, 2009)

There's no such thing as a "good balanced diet(TM)". Why do you think mental illness (and rare illness like CFS, FM, et al) are skyrocketing ?


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## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

robertz said:


> There's no such thing as a "good balanced diet(TM)". Why do you think mental illness (and rare illness like CFS, FM, et al) are skyrocketing ?


Yes there is. Just eat food that contains enough vitamins to fill your daily allowance. Vitamins have nothing to do with mental illness except in the case of extreme deficiencies.


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## Nutnutnut (Jun 2, 2007)

The daily recommended values are incorrect, many of them are far too low. For instance vitamin D has a daily recommended intake of 200-400 IU when in fact you need 5000 IU to 10 000 IU. If someone were to follow the guidelines and take a mere 200 IU with no other source of it, they would end up deficient.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

The recommendations are the MINIMUM anyone should be taking, I've heard.


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## robertz (Feb 4, 2009)

Belshazzar said:


> Yes there is. Just eat food that contains enough vitamins to fill your daily allowance. Vitamins have nothing to do with mental illness except in the case of extreme deficiencies.


I disagree. There are a lot of studies done on the role of vitamins to treat mental illness. Do some research.

You seem to ignore that even if you eat a "balanced diet", there are several conditions that will prevent you from absorbing the nutrients. Again, do some research.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

All the B vitamins. Honestly, I started taking a One-A-Day supplement for active people (I am active, running 24 miles a week), and was SHOCKED at how the B vitamins (1 riboflavin, 2 niacin, 6, and 12) calmed me down. They are good for anxiety and metabolism.


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## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

Nutnutnut said:


> The daily recommended values are incorrect, many of them are far too low. For instance vitamin D has a daily recommended intake of 200-400 IU when in fact you need 5000 IU to 10 000 IU. If someone were to follow the guidelines and take a mere 200 IU with no other source of it, they would end up deficient.


The 5,000-10,000 IU dose is not established, but some research suggests that the RDA should be bumped up for vitamin D. If you live in warmer climates, though, a good half hour in the sun coupled with a D-fortified foods is enough.

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/are-you-getting-enough-vitamin-d

Your claim that all the daily values are incorrect doesn't seem supported at all as the toxic doses for some vitamins are not that much greater than the RDA, especially Vitamin A:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819426-overview



robertz said:


> I disagree. There are a lot of studies done on the role of vitamins to treat mental illness. Do some research.
> 
> You seem to ignore that even if you eat a "balanced diet", there are several conditions that will prevent you from absorbing the nutrients. Again, do some research.


Ah, the old "do the research" line. I have provided research to back up my assertions. Where is yours?

I have seen some research that suggests that B supplements can slow the progression of dementia and mild cognitive impairments (MCIs) in older folks, but I have never seen any credible research that suggests that severe mental disorders can be cured or treated with vitamins.

I addressed the balanced diet issue above -- check the betterhealth link. I never said that vitamin supplements were unnecessary across the board. The link above gives a list of those who might benefit:


> Some groups of people may need to take vitamin supplements at the RDI, for example:
> Vegans, who eat no animal products, may risk B12 deficiency.
> Women of childbearing age may need 400µg of folate per day for a month before conception and for the first three months of pregnancy. Otherwise they risk having a baby with neural tube defects, like spina bifida.
> Smokers use up to twice as much vitamin C for their metabolic processes as non-smokers.
> ...


The bulk of research still seems to point to this conclusion:



> Most physicians will agree that in the end, a daily multivitamin isn't going to hurt. But patients should be aware a multivitamin doesn't come with any promises either and that a pill isn't a substitute for a healthy diet.


http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/PublicHealth/1688


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## JimmyDeansRetartedCousin (Nov 28, 2009)

Multi vitamins have their uses in medecine. A good mutivitamin capsule "forceval" is particularly useful in treating patients with re-feeding syndrome, but as far as joe soap goes you can just take an uber basic multi vitamin tablet from your local supermarket.

And this is only if you really want to, if you even eat a semi balanced diet, the chances of developing a vitamin deficiency are minimal.

Excess B12 and B5, are pretty common in "potent" multi vitamins. It's best just to eat some spinach every once and a while. Plus spinach doesn't turn your urine luminous orange. 

I'm pretty sure tha the massive quantities of certain vitamins are down to the poor absorption rates of the synthetic forms.


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## wjc75225 (Jul 24, 2010)

JimmyDeansRetartedCousin said:


> Multi vitamins have their uses in medecine. A good mutivitamin capsule "forceval" is particularly useful in treating patients with re-feeding syndrome, but as far as joe soap goes you can just take an uber basic multi vitamin tablet from your local supermarket.
> 
> And this is only if you really want to, if you even eat a semi balanced diet, the chances of developing a vitamin deficiency are minimal.
> 
> ...


There are certain forms of each vitamin and mineral that absorb better than others, but you're right, food is the best way to go. I still take a multivitamin, but I try to keep a balanced diet with fruits and vegetables. I've always heard that excess water-soluble vitamins are not harmful for you. They are just excreted in urine (and the B's do turn your urine a weird color). However, people need to watch out for excess fat-soluble (A,D,E,K) vitamins, as those can cause problems. Also, an excess of certain minerals can definitely cause problems. That's why a lot of multivitamins write in big letters "Does Not Contain Iron". Mine contains a little iron, but not much.


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## Ununderstood (Jun 8, 2005)

I myself am a firm believer in supplements. I take Fish Oil, Glucosamine, Apple Cider Vinegar, a multi vitamin, and Hyaluronic acid every single day. I haven't gotten sick in as long as I can remember and I never get any head aches, digestive problems, loss of memory, or nearly anything that can be imagined that deals with the body.

Some people have all of this WITHOUT supplements but I feel comfort in knowing my body always has the vitamins, minerals, and nutrients it needs and then some. Of course I also try to eat as much meats, fruits, vegetables, dairy products, and what not when I can as well and not base my whole intake of vitamins and minerals on the supplements alone.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

The body removes water soluble vitamins very quickly so its hard to over dose on those. Fat soluble vitamins are harder for the body to remove. I'm too lazy to check but I always figured that the vitamins that come in huge doses are all water soluble otherwise the companies would be scared of someone getting hurt and suing them. Vitamin overdosing can happen. I take a multivitamin once a week just to be sure but I never notice any advantage to it. If I'm tired I will sometimes take a B Vitamin pill instead of drinking coffee. Overall I don't see any reason to take mega doses.


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## Ununderstood (Jun 8, 2005)

LALoner said:


> The body removes water soluble vitamins very quickly so its hard to over dose on those. Fat soluble vitamins are harder for the body to remove. I'm too lazy to check but I always figured that the vitamins that come in huge doses are all water soluble otherwise the companies would be scared of someone getting hurt and suing them. Vitamin overdosing can happen. I take a multivitamin once a week just to be sure but I never notice any advantage to it. If I'm tired I will sometimes take a B Vitamin pill instead of drinking coffee. Overall I don't see any reason to take mega doses.


Multivitamins should be taken daily though, not weekly. They will never be of any effect if you take them once a week, it would be like going to the gym once a week and expecting results.


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