# Fish Oil and Hypomania



## Luctor (Aug 10, 2012)

I've read that high doses of fish oil might trigger hypomania in bipolar sufferers. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I've been feeling a little down all week and quite honestly I've been thinking about experimenting with this. I'm on a low dose of lamictal, 50mg/d.

[I realise the dangers involved. I've never been fully manic. My hypomania manifests in a non-harmful way: talkative, excitable, heightened confidence, euphoria and slight grandiosity. So I don't believe I'm at risk of harming myself. I just need to lift myself out of this slump]


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm on 200 mg of Lamictal. Mostly for unipolar depression and constant anxiety. But I do cyclical mood swing that involve very mild hypomania. It's interesting that you mention this right now. Because I recently experienced a hpomanic spell and felt like the supplements I was taking were making me feel crummy. I was taking fish oil, magnesium chloride and a good multivitamin I quit them and I have felt much better since then, no hypomania when according to how my cycles usually work and what is going on in my life right now, I should be slightly hypomanic.

Personally I would not want to induce hypomania unless I was really depressed and thoug it would help me get things done that I'd been neglecting. It would be an interesting experiment and even though just about everyone touts how beneficial fish oil is for everything I'm sure taking too much of it will cause some problems.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Odd, I used to take a lot of fish oil and it didn't do anything. I grind up flax seeds now in a coffee grinder and just have 1 tablespoon everyday. That's enough for my body to create the necessary epa/dha. I don't think fish oil is necessarily that good for you unless you have some genetic deficiency where you can't produce these fats or you don't get any sources of fat in your diet. Anyways, fish oil you really gotta pick a good brand as there is a lot of brands out there with lots of pcb's, mercury, etc. And if you are mega dosing it's a bad idea.

https://www.consumerlab.com/reviews/fish_oil_supplements_review/omega3/


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

Fish oil works in a natural way where there are hardly any side effects. I take fish oil everyday and feel fantastic.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Inspiron said:


> Fish oil works in a natural way where there are hardly any side effects. I take fish oil everyday and feel fantastic.


I always had major diarrhea on fish oil pills. Not the most lethal side effect but still.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Fish oil works in a natural way where there are hardly any side effects. I take fish oil everyday and feel fantastic.


What the effects of fish oil on psychology and how does it's "natural" method of action differ from other supplements and medications that have the same psychological affects? What dose of fish oil do you take every day and what are the side effects that you mention?


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## Luctor (Aug 10, 2012)

So I tried it. My usual daily dose of fish oil (salmon oil, EPA & DHA) is 1000mg. Yesterday I took 5000mg.

My mood in the morning was mildly depressed. By mid morning/noon I felt a lot better. A little bit excitable. Not hypomanic, but definitely not depressed. However, it did nothing to combat the elevated anxiety I was experiencing, and my feeling is it might've even contributed to this.

Other than prevalent anxiety and slightly improved mood, there were no other notable side-effects.

According to the research I've done, some bipolar patients are on as much as 9000mg/day to help maintain _stability_. Personally, I think the effects I experienced were placebo.


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

Inshallah said:


> I always had major diarrhea on fish oil pills. Not the most lethal side effect but still.


Your in the minority because fish oil is a natural product unlike others.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Your in the minority because fish oil is a natural product unlike others.


It gave me diarrhea too if I took it in the morning.

Look at the consumer lab report.



> *Contamination, Mislabeling or Other Problems Found in More Than 30% of Fish Oil/Omega-3 Supplements*


*

*Natural is an overused word, considering most supplements have contaminants in them. Plus preservatives and fillers used in pills are horrible too. At least pharmaceutical companies are regulated.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Fish oil works in a natural way where there are hardly any side effects. I take fish oil everyday and feel fantastic.





istayhome said:


> What are the effects of fish oil on psychology and how does it's "natural" method of action differ from other supplements and medications that have the same psychological affects? What dose of fish oil do you take every day and what are the side effects that you mention?


Inspron could you please help me answer these question?



Inspiron said:


> Your (sic) in the minority because fish oil is a natural product unlike others.


What do you mean by natural making it unlike others? My Coffee this morning is natural as is my salad every night, everything I ingest for that matter. How are natural products and supplements unique and unlike everything else?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Your (sic) in the minority because fish oil is a natural product unlike others.


Isn't oil when taken orally fairly good for relieving constipation? Why does fish oil being natural make it have such different properties than other oils so that it would have a different action than comparable oils?


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> It gave me diarrhea too if I took it in the morning.
> 
> Look at the consumer lab report.
> 
> [/B]Natural is an overused word, considering most supplements have contaminants in them. Plus preservatives and fillers used in pills are horrible too. At least pharmaceutical companies are regulated.


Try taking it at a different time than. The FDA cannot regulate natural products. Let me remind you that the side effects from drugs are more severe.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Try taking it at a different time than. The FDA cannot regulate natural products. Let me remind you that the side effects from drugs are more severe.


Do you have time to answer the question I asked? There is a debate going on about fish oil here, I'd like as much information as I can get and you sound you know a lot.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Of course the side effects of drugs are more severe. But they are also in a different league as far as treating the mental disorders are concerned.

I may hope no one is going to claim fish oil works as well as say, an SSRI, for treating clinical depression? Or is someone going to claim this? Any guesses on who that is going to be?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Try taking it at a different time than. The FDA cannot regulate natural products. Let me remind you that the side effects from drugs are more severe.


Also what you mean by this. What prohibits the FDA from regulating natural products? Also if the FDA doesn't regulate fish oil can't a fish oil capsule contain just olive, canola or castor oil, or anything if there are no consumer safe guards?
Do all drugs have more severe side effects? You said fish oil had side effects, how do they differ from pharmaceutical side effects? Also I've taken a lot of pharmaceuticals that have no side effects. The lamictal I take has no side effects. Nor do the NSAID's or allergy pills I take as directed. Many pharmaceuticals I've taken have no side effects.

Am I very strange in this regard, are all pharmaceuticals supposed to give you worse side effects than anything that is "natural"?

Isn't the main ingredient in aspirin natural?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin

But it is also a pharmaceutical. So it is a natural pharmaceutical, how does this contradiction affect people. Aren't opioids essentially a natural pharmaceutical because they are mostly made from a poppy plant? Same with cocaine?

What does this all men to the consumer, I am so confused.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Try taking it at a different time than. The FDA cannot regulate natural products. Let me remind you that the side effects from drugs are more severe.


I haven't had any side effects from drugs. But when I took natural products I had constant urination and stomach pains. "Natural", lol. You know that's a marketing term used to sell products. The supplement industry is a billion dollar industry and they can get away with lying which pharmaceutical companies can't. Funny thing though is the suppliers of most "Natural" products are pharmaceutical companies. Then the other companies dilute the product, add fillers, contaminants and sell it to you as "natural". It's the biggest placebo market on earth.

EPA/DHA is produced by your body from other fats. You don't need these large quantities as they go to waste and can actually form into other chemicals if you have it in excess. Your body will produce what you need providing that you are a healthy person without any problems. These fats are necessary for a lot of processes and you wouldn't be doing very well if your body couldn't do it.

The best part about "natural" products is they conduct these dumb in vitro studies that prove nothing but use them to fool people. Your sources of reality come from idiots like Dr. Mercola and naturalnews. There's a reason these people are in alternative medicine and not part of real scientific research, they are outcasts. Anyone can get a medical degree by studying, and they use it to fool people which is just sad.

Recent peer reviewed studies show that fish oil does not help heart disease nor does it help Alzheimers. All you need to do is eat properly and don't create any deficiencies and you should be relatively healthy. The problem is that the Western diet doesn't provide what you typically need, so sure a multi vitamin can help, and maybe a small amount of fish oil if you get no other fats like ALA.


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I haven't had any side effects from drugs. But when I took natural products I had constant urination and stomach pains. "Natural", lol. You know that's a marketing term used to sell products. The supplement industry is a billion dollar industry and they can get away with lying which pharmaceutical companies can't. Funny thing though is the suppliers of most "Natural" products are pharmaceutical companies. Then the other companies dilute the product, add fillers, contaminants and sell it to you as "natural". It's the biggest placebo market on earth.
> 
> EPA/DHA is produced by your body from other fats. You don't need these large quantities as they go to waste and can actually form into other chemicals if you have it in excess. Your body will produce what you need providing that you are a healthy person without any problems. These fats are necessary for a lot of processes and you wouldn't be doing very well if your body couldn't do it.
> 
> ...


Your in the minority if you don't get any side effects from drugs but you are aware of the severe side effects of the drugs correct? I haven't had one side effect from fish oil compared to drugs that I use to be on. What you just described about alternative medicine can also be applied for traditional medicine. I do agree taking a multi-vitamin along with others such as fish oil is healthy.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Your in the minority if you don't get any side effects from drugs but you are aware of the severe side effects of the drugs correct? I haven't had one side effect from fish oil compared to drugs that I use to be on. What you just described about alternative medicine can also be applied for traditional medicine. I do agree taking a multi-vitamin along with others such as fish oil is healthy.


Like I said I get no side effects from the pharmaceuticals I am on. They do what they're supposed to do and don't have other unwanted effects. The greatest annoyance is having take several pill a day but supplements ave the same issue.

When I studied at Massage school, a two year, 700 hours program of in-class time (plus clinics on the weekends) I also have a degree in biopsychiatry with an emphasis on Anatomy and physiology. My other major was Statistics.

Every educated professional who taught me (Doctors, Naturopaths, mathematicians, Kinesiologists, professors and even new-age weird believers at the top of their field) all agreed that with only a few exceptions supplements are a wast of money, may be harmful due to the lack of oversight and the most they day is make your urine expensive.

Also, Inspiron: I feel very hurt and offended that you are not answering any questions I have asked. You made a lot of claims which I am having trouble verifying. I do a lot of independent research but I am having trouble finding information regarding most of what you have described as commonly recognized facts. Are you deliberately ignoring me or are you exaggerating your ideas. I'm not sure either way I would really appreciate your help. I feel pretty hurt that you are not showing me any courtesy. I wonder why this is and why you seem to be treating me with passive aggression. Have I hurt you in some way? If so I am sorry.

Would you please at least tell us why I am not worthy of you responding to me?

Thank you. I would much appreciate it if I could feel the support that this forum is designed to give.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> Your in the minority if you don't get any side effects from drugs but you are aware of the severe side effects of the drugs correct? I haven't had one side effect from fish oil compared to drugs that I use to be on. What you just described about alternative medicine can also be applied for traditional medicine. I do agree taking a multi-vitamin along with others such as fish oil is healthy.


The point is you do not get side effects from it because it doesn't work. Science has proven it, if it works for you your problem is not real and you are simply experiencing placebo.

Nah the people who do get side effects are in a minority. This is why they do clinical trials and only release drugs that have an acceptable side effect profile.

For example here is the percentage of people who got side effects from Zoloft during trials.

13% counting placebo, is still a minority because 87% did not get this side effect. The study had over 2000 people. You think that the majority gets side effects because you got them and then you go on the internet and read other people complaining. People who don't get side effects rarely come on the internet to complain 



> Adverse Event ZOLOFT Placebo Ejaculation failure* (primarily delayed ejaculation) 14% 1% Decreased libido** 6% 1%


http://www.rxlist.com/zoloft-drug/side-effects-interactions.htm

If you look at the full info, the side effect profile is quite low. In fact, FDA will not approve drugs if they cross a certain threshold especially important stuff. This is why Wellbutrin was rejected at 600mg doses because seizure threshold increased, it was a small percentage but an important side effect. This is how the pharmaceutical world is controlled, unlike supplement companies. I'm not biased as I used to be into supplements years ago hoping to cure my problems but they did crap, and I tried everything including mega dosing. Once i got into science I realized how much BS supplements are.


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> *The point is you do not get side effects from it because it doesn't work.* Science has proven it, if it works for you your problem is not real and you are simply experiencing placebo.
> 
> Nah the people who do get side effects are in a minority. This is why they do clinical trials and only release drugs that have an acceptable side effect profile.
> 
> ...


We'll just have to agree to disagree. Just to clarify so your saying in order for a drug to work it must have side effects? Placebo can also be said about drugs.

I won't go into too much details here on how pharmaceutical companies run clinical trials besides that it is run in-house and not by an independent company so data can be misrepresented.

It takes time and hard work to feel better about yourself; most people just want instant gratification.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree. Just to clarify so your saying in order for a drug to work it must have side effects? Placebo can also be said about drugs.
> 
> I won't go into too much details here on how pharmaceutical companies run clinical trials besides that it is run in-house and not by an independent company so data can be misrepresented.
> 
> It takes time and hard work to feel better about yourself; most people just want instant gratification.


Anything that has the ability to change the way your body/brain does something has the capability of giving you side effects. FDA doesn't classify supplements as drugs because they are useless. Side effects aren't necessary, but i'm just telling you that you can't get side effects from filler powder.

But let me get this straight. You say it takes time and dedication yet here you are raving about mega doses of fish oil and that supplements work? So you obviously wanted the easy way out by taking fish oil. Next, I have had my issues for over 14 years and I've tried tirelessly to get rid of them, you're saying I should give it another 14 years and add fish oil? Give me a break. Once again there is no skewing of information. These are peer reviewed studies. Hundreds of other scientists around the world review them. The studies that supplement companies use are sponsored by them too but they are not peer reviewed and are in vitro with poor parameters. For example a recent study showing that ECGC's from green tea can help with brain neurogenesis. All the news media outlets and supplement companies were going nuts and telling people to buy their green tea and supplements. A cup of green tea has about 15-25mg of ECGCs. Supplements can have more but even then they are usually misreported, mislabeled or destroyed in the manufacturing process. Either way the study that showed benefits showed very very very VERY minor benefits almost negligible with 1200mg of ECGCs. That's like 80 cups of green tea a day. And anything under 1200mg they didn't see any difference, just suddenly some minor difference at 1200mg. It means nothing too given that it was done in rats as well. You're so brainwashed with the whole natural thing. This is their marketing scam, they make money by getting people to believe pharmaceutical companies are evil. While no doubt there are some bad apples in all walks of life, they usually get weeded out and exposed.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree. Just to clarify so your saying in order for a drug to work it must have side effects? Placebo can also be said about drugs.
> 
> I won't go into too much details here on how pharmaceutical companies run clinical trials besides that it is run in-house and not by an independent company so data can be misrepresented.
> 
> It takes time and hard work to feel better about yourself; most people just want instant gratification.


Inspiron! you're still alive will you please reply to me. Give me the time of day, I think if you state something as fact you should be willing to show proper sources; just saying that you are right and everyone else is wrong is what children do.

You've mentioned that you have a degree in marketing. Do you think that this is why you forcefully represent your claims as facts without giving any supporting evidence. That is a common marketing tactic, keep telling people what you want them to think louder and louder in a tone that says it is factual until be buy/do/believe what you are telling them. Too bad that little trick doesn't work when your target audience is educated.

Anyone bothering to join the forums and discuss their problems in depth doesn't just want instant gratification.

Also when you say, "We'll just have to agree to disagree." what you really mean is, "yes you have made very valid points but I will never concede that what I just typed is not 100% correct so I am going to end this discussion right now." Just be honest. Everyone else is, even about very embarrassing things.

*Why to you ignore me to such a degree?*


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Anything that has the ability to change the way your body/brain does something has the capability of giving you side effects. FDA doesn't classify supplements as drugs because they are useless. Side effects aren't necessary, but i'm just telling you that you can't get side effects from filler powder.
> 
> But let me get this straight. You say it takes time and dedication yet here you are raving about mega doses of fish oil and that supplements work? So you obviously wanted the easy way out by taking fish oil. Next, I have had my issues for over 14 years and I've tried tirelessly to get rid of them, you're saying I should give it another 14 years and add fish oil? Give me a break. Once again there is no skewing of information. These are peer reviewed studies. Hundreds of other scientists around the world review them. The studies that supplement companies use are sponsored by them too but they are not peer reviewed and are in vitro with poor parameters. For example a recent study showing that ECGC's from green tea can help with brain neurogenesis. All the news media outlets and supplement companies were going nuts and telling people to buy their green tea and supplements. A cup of green tea has about 15-25mg of ECGCs. Supplements can have more but even then they are usually misreported, mislabeled or destroyed in the manufacturing process. Either way the study that showed benefits showed very very very VERY minor benefits almost negligible with 1200mg of ECGCs. That's like 80 cups of green tea a day. And anything under 1200mg they didn't see any difference, just suddenly some minor difference at 1200mg. It means nothing too given that it was done in rats as well. You're so brainwashed with the whole natural thing. This is their marketing scam, they make money by getting people to believe pharmaceutical companies are evil. While no doubt there are some bad apples in all walks of life, they usually get weeded out and exposed.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. You mentioned marketing scam well the same can be side about pharmaceutical companies. I studied marketing and work in the marketing field so I know what I'm talking about and pharmaceutical companies have marketing geniuses so I do have give them that. Pharma companies made billions of dollars last year a lone with the help of pharmaceutical sales rep when was the last time you saw a natural supplement sales rep? Who is the one that gives out free samples to doctors so they can give to their patients? Who is the one who has ads on tv running everyday talking about go see your doctor? These are marketing tactics by pharmaceuticals.

It takes time and hard work to feel better about yourself where did I mention anything mega doses? If you could quote me on that than I will understand. Fish oil can be a part of that process to feel better along with positive affirmations, exercise, healthy diet etc and that takes time and hard work.

If drugs are working for you than great continue to take them I'm not going to try and stop. It's important to be well-informed.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree. You mentioned marketing scam well the same can be side about pharmaceutical companies. I studied marketing and work in the marketing field so I know what I'm talking about and pharmaceutical companies have marketing geniuses so I do have give them that. Pharma companies made billions of dollars last year a lone with the help of pharmaceutical sales rep when was the last time you saw a natural supplement sales rep? Who is the one that gives out free samples to doctors so they can give to their patients? Who is the one who has ads on tv running everyday talking about go see your doctor? These are marketing tactics by pharmaceuticals.
> 
> It takes time and hard work to feel better about yourself where did I mention anything mega doses? If you could quote me on that than I will understand. Fish oil can be a part of that process to feel better along with positive affirmations, exercise, healthy diet etc and that takes time and hard work.
> 
> If drugs are working for you than great continue to take them I'm not going to try and stop. It's important to be well-informed.


K well you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe. Now you can spend sometime responding to istayhome


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree. You mentioned marketing scam well the same can be side about pharmaceutical companies. I studied marketing and work in the marketing field so I know what I'm talking about and pharmaceutical companies have marketing geniuses so I do have give them that. Pharma companies made billions of dollars last year a lone with the help of pharmaceutical sales rep when was the last time you saw a natural supplement sales rep? Who is the one that gives out free samples to doctors so they can give to their patients? Who is the one who has ads on tv running everyday talking about go see your doctor? These are marketing tactics by pharmaceuticals.
> 
> It takes time and hard work to feel better about yourself where did I mention anything mega doses? If you could quote me on that than I will understand. Fish oil can be a part of that process to feel better along with positive affirmations, exercise, healthy diet etc and that takes time and hard work.
> 
> If drugs are working for you than great continue to take them I'm not going to try and stop. It's important to be well-informed.


I saw a supplement sales rep earlier while I stopped by a supplement store (they carry some very good tea). The sales gave me free samples directly! They skipped the doctor and just gave me a free sample, genius and way more efficient than spending all that time hassling doctors! The supplement was a grand mix of things to give me more energy and heal every possible ailment I had. They had glossy brochures and everything.

You probably know that though because you know marketing, I trust you, the expert. You see what goes on behind the scenes...

*Now would you bloody say something, anything to me!!!*


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

This topic has gotten fairly off-course. It should be noted that ingesting amounts of oil even as low as 2oz. and in most cases less than that amount will only work as a laxative. The GI tract really does not want to and just digest a large amount of oil. Even the amount of oil in most fatty meals is too much and a lot of it will simply go through your intestines undigested and excrete via your excrement. 

Drinking several tablespoons of ANY oil will only aid you in taking a dump more easily and quickly.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I've been saying that fish oil is pretty much useless for ages. But the marketing world overpowered my rants. I'm glad that more and more studies are coming out stating that it really does nothing. That's because your body will produce epa/dha from ALA.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fish-oil-supplement-research-remains-murky



> A systematic review of 20 studies published last week in _JAMA_ _The Journal of the American Medical Association _reported that neither eating extra helpings of fish nor taking fish oil supplements reduces the risk of stroke, heart attack or death.





> In June a review of studies published on behalf of the Cochrane Collaboration, an independent, not-for-profit organization that promotes evidence-based decision-making, concluded that fish oil pills fail to prevent or treat cognitive decline.





> And a 2011 meta-analysis by Yale University researchers debunked the idea that omega-3s alleviate depression.


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## whattothink (Jun 2, 2005)

Conversely.



> Conclusions: The meta-analytic findings provide strong evidence that bipolar depressive symptoms may be improved by adjunctive use of omega-3.





> Conclusions: Supplements containing EPA ≥ 60% of total EPA + DHA, in a dose range of 200 to 2,200 mg/d of EPA in excess of DHA, were effective against primary depression.





> Conclusions: The current meta-analysis provides evidence that EPA may be more efficacious than DHA in treating depression.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sounds like the old studies that have been debunked. EPA/DHA is healthy sure, but you already get enough fats in your diet for it.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Aphexfan said:


> Hmm, yea Ive taken fish oil for about 2 months and have hardly noticed any kind of difference what so ever. I guess in some cases it does make sense since there are far better sources for omega acids then fish oil


Yeah man, you just gotta eat nothing but algae, best source of omega's evaaa!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Aphexfan said:


> I was thinking more of hemp seed based products! :b


I just get cheap *** flax seeds, grind them in a coffee grinder and drink 1 tablespoon every day.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

whatever guys, algae rocks.


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## whattothink (Jun 2, 2005)

kehcorpz said:


> Sounds like the old studies that have been debunked. EPA/DHA is healthy sure, but you already get enough fats in your diet for it.


2012, and December 2011. The other is a meta-analysis. They're not old.

You claim that we already get enough of these fats in our diets. What evidence are you referring to? What is the baseline of enough and what is the evidence that it's enough? Sure, our body is able to convert oils, but often times when our body can convert nutrients in adequate amounts, there is still substantial benefit to be had by absorbing said nutrient directly.

The link between omega-3 and brain health is not fully understood yet. While there is some evidence that its effects are negligible, there is also an enormous body of evidence that shows its benefits. I'm not convinced either way at this point, but I am intrigued by the research thus far and will continue to follow it.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

These same studies are the basis that show that people who consumed regular diets which had omega 3's did not see any improvement with additional omega 3's. The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization has also shown that consumption of omega 3's has increased. Some of the most common foods have Alpha linolenic acid which gets converted to EPA/DHA. We are talking vegetable oils, corn, soy, it's freaking everywhere. Not to mention that as the article states even the world health organization has determined that pregnant women are the only ones who need higher amounts and that's only 300mg, which is nothing compared to what people are consuming in supplements.

Anyways, please link me to these studies. The link I provided has the sources of all the information. All the newest studies coming out recently are all pointing to the fact that outside of our diet there's not much need for omega 3 supplementation. But you can continue wasting your money. It doesn't bother me, especially if it helps you with a placebo effect. I fell victim to the hype once too and took it ages ago and it did nothing but cut my wallet short.



whattothink said:


> 2012, and December 2011. The other is a meta-analysis. They're not old.
> 
> You claim that we already get enough of these fats in our diets. What evidence are you referring to? What is the baseline of enough and what is the evidence that it's enough? Sure, our body is able to convert oils, but often times when our body can convert nutrients in adequate amounts, there is still substantial benefit to be had by absorbing said nutrient directly.
> 
> The link between omega-3 and brain health is not fully understood yet. While there is some evidence that its effects are negligible, there is also an enormous body of evidence that shows its benefits. I'm not convinced either way at this point, but I am intrigued by the research thus far and will continue to follow it.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

A King Fish a day, keeps depression at bay


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> A King Fish a day, keeps depression at bay


So no one in the UK should be on this forum because Fish & Chips is a staple over there?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

istayhome said:


> So no one in the UK should be on this forum because Fish & Chips is a staple over there?


Or Japan, who has some pretty high suicide rates.

But seriously before industrialization and easy access to food most people didn't even have access to fish. I'm sure our bodies have evolved to compensate for that. The answer to everything is BUCKWHEAT! mmmmm


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Or Japan, who has some pretty high suicide rates.
> 
> But seriously before industrialization and easy access to food most people didn't even have access to fish. I'm sure our bodies have evolved to compensate for that. The answer to everything is BUCKWHEAT! mmmmm


A Jewish staple, groats (toasted buckwheat), and our people have been through some bad sh*t but we're still here.


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## jimmythekid (Apr 26, 2010)

I seriously doubt that fish oil triggering hypo/mania happens all that often. I'm sure it's happened though. So many things can be a trigger. 

Fish oil has some decent research behind it for treating bipolar d/o. Personally I haven't noticed a huge difference with it but I may not have ever taken it for long enough. The doses used in the studies are quite high. To get the same amount you might need to take around ten capsules a day! 

I take high strength liquid fish oil to get past this. 1 teaspoon provides ten pills worth of EPA (the important chemical in fish oil). It does take quite a bit longer to start working than antidepressants. I think several months is what I read. I wouldn't forego your mood stabiliser but it could help.

There's some good info on fish oil for BP on psycheducation.org if you want to read more.

Good luck


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## whattothink (Jun 2, 2005)

jimmythekid said:


> I seriously doubt that fish oil triggering hypo/mania happens all that often. I'm sure it's happened though. So many things can be a trigger.
> 
> Fish oil has some decent research behind it for treating bipolar d/o. Personally I haven't noticed a huge difference with it but I may not have ever taken it for long enough. The doses used in the studies are quite high. To get the same amount you might need to take around ten capsules a day!
> 
> ...


Neat.


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## Broshious2 (Jan 21, 2009)

kehcorpz said:


> I've been saying that fish oil is pretty much useless for ages. But the marketing world overpowered my rants. I'm glad that more and more studies are coming out stating that it really does nothing. That's because your body will produce epa/dha from ALA.
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fish-oil-supplement-research-remains-murky


http://www.lef.org/featured-article...kBody&utm_campaign=INX206E&sourcecode=INX206E

Interesting response to the JAMA study.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Broshious2 said:


> http://www.lef.org/featured-article...kBody&utm_campaign=INX206E&sourcecode=INX206E
> 
> Interesting response to the JAMA study.


Almost read that but saw in his references that he uses a newspaper article from USA today. WTF? That's not a reference.

There's no doubt that epa/dha is beneficial. But extra supplementation is not. Sure people who may have bad diets will benefit. But it's just omega 3's are in so many foods. I mean I'm eating buckwheat right now which has omega'3s. I have flax daily. I eat spinach,strawberries,etc. All of those have omega3's. That's how abundant they are. ALA converts to EPA/DHA.

The supplement industry is great like that. They take obscure studies that are done in vitro at insane amounts, or they take epidemiological studies which are usually useless too. All they can say is there's some pattern but that could be caused by anything.


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## Broshious2 (Jan 21, 2009)

kehcorpz said:


> Almost read that but saw in his references that he uses a newspaper article from USA today. WTF? That's not a reference.


It is when you're quote says this: "The media used the JAMA study to create headlines like "Fish oil supplements don't prevent heart attacks, study says."1" That's all the reference was about, and if you go to that page that's exactly what the headline says. Nowhere else is the newspaper used as a reference.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Broshious2 said:


> It is when you're quote says this: "The media used the JAMA study to create headlines like "Fish oil supplements don't prevent heart attacks, study says."1" That's all the reference was about, and if you go to that page that's exactly what the headline says. Nowhere else is the newspaper used as a reference.


Haha ok I always look at references first in articles. That's just the way I am.

But yah what I said still stands. New studies are coming out debunking it, regardless of JAMA. They still say that optimal amounts from healthy diets is necessary but if you are getting this no need for extra via supplementation.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I think all this fish-oil debate is making me hypomanic. I really think, as was said above, If you eat a fully nutritious diet, you are generally fine. Some people develop weird random deficiencies and need to supplement. But for most people supplements are a waste of money that could be better spent on quality food.


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

so, how much fish oil does it take to get high?


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

If only I had known I could replace MDMA pills for fish oil pills during my hardcore partying days, I would be SO heart-healthy now


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

You cannot get high off of fish oil; it's a natural supplement. It works in a subtle way where you won't notice it that much; for example improving memory, the heart, brain functions, etc. I don't quite understand the negativity towards fish oil but it does work so give it try and remember it does take time and hard work.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> You cannot get high off of fish oil; it's a natural supplement. It works in a subtle way where you won't notice it that much; for example improving memory, the heart, brain functions, etc. *I don't quite understand the negativity towards fish oil but it does work so give it try and remember it does take time and hard work.*


What kind of hard work does one need to do to make fish oil "work?"


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## whattothink (Jun 2, 2005)

Inspiron said:


> You cannot get high off of fish oil; it's a natural supplement. It works in a subtle way where you won't notice it that much; for example improving memory, the heart, brain functions, etc. *I don't quite understand the negativity towards fish oil* but it does work so give it try and remember it does take time and hard work.


It's similar to the person who quits something and feels the need to rail against anyone who still engages. It's like they're so proud of their perceived revelation, they have to rain on everyone's parade.

In the case of fish oil, studies are still being done. To claim absolute knowledge of a subject which is still ambiguous enough to provoke studies is ignorance imo. I'm not convinced either way, but until things become more clear and these recent few studies are backed by an equal amount of evidence which has prompted fish oil's attention, I will reserve my judgement.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Fish oil is a waste of money....only thing it does is make me smell of fish.


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

whattothink said:


> It's similar to the person who quits something and feels the need to rail against anyone who still engages. It's like they're so proud of their perceived revelation, they have to rain on everyone's parade.
> 
> In the case of fish oil, studies are still being done. *To claim absolute knowledge of a subject which is still ambiguous enough to provoke studies is ignorance imo.* I'm not convinced either way, but until things become more clear and these recent few studies are backed by an equal amount of evidence which has prompted fish oil's attention, I will reserve my judgement.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. To claim absolute knowledge can be said the same with prescribed drugs. Fish oil is an option that people have if they want to take it.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. To claim absolute knowledge can be said the same with prescribed drugs. Fish oil is an option that people have if they want to take it.


two things.

Inspiron: "we'll have to agree to disagree." You seem to say this in every conversation you have. Have you ever stopped to consider that when you disagree with EVERYONE perhaps you should reconsider your stance?

As for claiming absolute knowledge, no one has absolute knowledge about almost anything. I know for a fact my birth date, my mother, very few things. Almost everything in existence is not set in stone and we understand very little. Only people as crazy as Dr. Peter Breggin would claim such superior knowledge on a subject as to have absolute knowledge on the topic.

This should reiterate my first point. When you insist that everyone else is wrong; maybe it's time to look at yourself.


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## whattothink (Jun 2, 2005)

Inspiron said:


> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. To claim absolute knowledge can be said the same with prescribed drugs. Fish oil is an option that people have if they want to take it.


Sorry I wasn't focusing on semantics in my post. I was speaking in a colloquial and not a philosophical context. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Better to say that one should reserve judgement about something as wildly debated and not fully understood as fish oil, which is my stance. My post was mainly directed at the few people bashing it, claiming that it is purely a marketing ploy and nothing more. There is significant evidence that this is false and more than a couple studies need to be done to verify the extent of its benefits.

I will concede that I do take fish pills daily, if for nothing else, a placebo effect.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

whattothink said:


> Sorry I wasn't focusing on semantics in my post. I was speaking in a colloquial and not a philosophical context. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Better to say that one should reserve judgement about something as wildly debated and not fully understood as fish oil, which is my stance. My post was mainly directed at the few people bashing it, claiming that it is purely a marketing ploy and nothing more. There is significant evidence that this is false and more than a couple studies need to be done to verify the extent of its benefits.
> 
> I will concede that I do take fish pills daily, if for nothing else, a placebo effect.


The problem is people do not understand the purpose of a supplement. In fact the word on its own means that you are completing something that is missing. All the tests that have shown positive benefits are usually epidemiological or are missing important variables. For example, someone posted some article and one of the references was a test in randomized Indians from some poor area. They also tested Mustard oil as well as fish oil and placebo. The Mustard oil had just as much benefit as fish oil, maybe a little bit less. Mustard oil is a simple vegetable oil, and it contains ALA, which people get in their diet. It's reasonable to assume that these people were not getting any omega3's in their diet and as such were getting positive benefits through supplementation. The fish oil had better benefits because of the doses used. You need more ALA to get the same amount of EPA/DHA as fish oil. But once again ALA is present in a lot of foods as long as you eat reasonably healthy. So yah in places dealing with poverty and lack of nutrition, sure it will help.

So yah, people should realize what a supplement is. There is tonnes of ALA in the wild and if your body is only converting what it needs, adding more EPA/DHA isn't going to make you super human. Simply, adding it when it's missing will make you a regular human.


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

Does it have any effect on Libido?
I have read a fair few amount of people have reported loss of Libido.


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