# Life after death- the truth is out there?



## Insanityonthego

I'm more confused than anyone else, but this article caught my attention. I can't believe I haven't investigated this topic further, but is there actual scientific proof that there's life after death? (discarding religion) What would be the point of all of us being here, to just disappear the day we're gone? It's rather pointless when I think about it. God, I hate wondering about the afterlife. :no I'm curious to read some opinions.



Donnie Ray-02-7-07 said:


> As human beings we search for the deeper meaning of life because a small voice within us whispers
> that there is something more. Are there really such thing as spirits or ghosts? Can they make their
> presence known? What are they doing here? Many more questions arise, and each question
> requires another question.
> 
> The facts we are certain of are we came from somewhere, we are here for a purpose, and we are
> going somewhere else. There is a life after death. Ask anyone who has had a near death
> experience. They can tell you the reality of life after death. When you move on from this existence
> you have a life in a world where everyone is spirit. We can't see or reside in that world in our
> human form, but it does exist. Each person is uniquely different, you are who you are and there is
> none other like you.
> 
> Here and today, we are busy, active, and occupied with our daily lives. In the spirit world they are
> doing the same thing. However, from time to time the veil between becomes very thin and the two
> worlds meet for a moment, that is when we experience what might be called an "encounter" with a
> spirit, ghost or perhaps an angel.
> 
> These "encounters" as we will call them most often happen when we are in a special, quiet place.
> Sometimes we get a glimpse of a spirit or ghost going about their routines, sometimes they are
> trying to reach out and help us. These occurrences are not something we can guarantee. They
> happen for reasons beyond our understanding.
> 
> These reasons alone are why we are paranormal investigators. To someday understand and
> communicate with the spirit world. And just maybe will be able to identify and understand the other
> side.


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## sacred

paranormal investigator? the whole article sounds like a pitch.. an ongoing drama and justification for why paranormal investigators should be taken somewhat seriously and get paid for what they do. infinite bull**** and infinite long term employment for all PIs baby!

i think near death experiences are just people making up bull**** and hallucinating. they just wernt dead long enough to stop hallucinating.


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## OtherGlove

I think without religion, life and death do seem pointless. As an atheist Id have to argue that there truly is no point, life just is and eventually it expires. There are just certain variables that allow life to evolve. Now a religious person might say, "well, who created the variables". All I can say is why did anyone have to create anything. There is no answer that we will ever be aware of.
Religion may only exist for the fact that there have always been unknowns. Some people heard that there was this dude that made everything in 7 days. There were apples and snakes and naked people with no direction. My point is people want answers, and some believed the first reasonably presented answers they got and passed it on to the next generation. How can you keep a religion moving successfully if theres nothing to work towards? Without the promise of eternal life, why would anyone follow the rules?
Again, Im an atheist. I believe that all this was created by men seeking power and wealth. Nothing in history has tamed the masses like organized religion. People just want to think that they know something.
Every time I go to the dentist all I can see is a bright white light. Hospital rooms have the same blinding light hovering over you the whole time. Is that really not a reasonable explanation? Like yes, maybe you were clinically dead, and then the DOCTORS brought you back(happens all the time). Your senses weren't all fully functional, and that light was just a light. The same one thats there when you're fully conscious. Its possible that to a religious person these things are so ingrained that they really do think they had a near death experience.


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## Insanityonthego

OtherGlove said:


> I think without religion, life and death do seem pointless. As an atheist Id have to argue that there truly is no point, life just is and eventually it expires. There are just certain variables that allow life to evolve. Now a religious person might say, "well, who created the variables". All I can say is why did anyone have to create anything. There is no answer that we will ever be aware of.
> Religion may only exist for the fact that there have always been unknowns. Some people heard that there was this dude that made everything in 7 days. There were apples and snakes and naked people with no direction. My point is people want answers, and some believed the first reasonably presented answers they got and passed it on to the next generation. How can you keep a religion moving successfully if theres nothing to work towards? Without the promise of eternal life, why would anyone follow the rules?
> Again, Im an atheist. I believe that all this was created by men seeking power and wealth. Nothing in history has tamed the masses like organized religion. People just want to think that they know something.
> Every time I go to the dentist all I can see is a bright white light. Hospital rooms have the same blinding light hovering over you the whole time. Is that really not a reasonable explanation? Like yes, maybe you were clinically dead, and then the DOCTORS brought you back(happens all the time). Your senses weren't all fully functional, and that light was just a light. The same one thats there when you're fully conscious. Its possible that to a religious person these things are so ingrained that they really do think they had a near death experience.


It goes beyond that, it's not just the light. In most cases, the surreal experience of seeing your own dead body lying on a hospital bed or having diseased family members come up to you and tell you it's not your time yet. I've seen a documental on this, of people who had near death experiences for up to 20 hours and they all had the same thing happen to them, this is all too coincidental isn't it? I've heard the same thing from a lot of people, not just a few. Since you don't believe in a creator, how can you logically explain creation? Everything on earth has a creator, anything man-made. So what makes you think otherwise for the bigger picture, who is the creator of the universe? There must be a purpose behind it, because nothing comes out of nothing. There are unexplainable reasons to our actions, even if subconciously, all of us act on things for a reason or purpose.


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## OtherGlove

I make no attempt to explain creation, because I don't believe it happened. Its true, science right now can only take it back so far. Religious people will always ask what happened before that. The religious explanation doesn't work for me. I didn't mean to make it sound so sarcastic.

Man doesnt create things. We make things out of things that are already there. You could say, where do molecules and atoms come from, and I have no answer. Still the religious explanation does nothing for me. It's not that I think people are liars or simply crazy. It is all interesting. I just will never believe anything I haven't seen, and I'm not talking about a movie. That really is a prerequisite to belief in a creator and an after life

Also, they may have been unconscious for twenty hours, but what happened in their head may have just been a split second. Kind of like a dream...


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## Insanityonthego

OtherGlove said:


> I make no attempt to explain creation, because I don't believe it happened. Its true, science right now can only take it back so far. Religious people will always ask what happened before that. The religious explanation doesn't work for me. I didn't mean to make it sound so sarcastic.
> 
> Man doesnt create things. We make things out of things that are already there. You could say, where do molecules and atoms come from, and I have no answer. Still the religious explanation does nothing for me. It's not that I think people are liars or simply crazy. It is all interesting. I just will never believe anything I haven't seen, and I'm not talking about a movie. That really is a prerequisite to belief in a creator and an after life


My belief on a creator is not solely based on my perception of this documental, I'm not so naive to consider this "evidence" as the truth but it does make me question things. I believe in a creator for various reasons. I have no religion since I'm a theist, so I didn't think of it as sarcasm. I think all of us question what happened before, not only religious people. We question everything around us, no matter our believes. I also agree that from my standpoint I just observe and judge no one because nobody has the facts, and this article may just be another one of the bunch implying it's evidence of the truth, or it could be a bunch of bull, but it still makes me question it.


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## sas111

I was watching vids on youtube the other day about people explaining their after-life experiences. Each person told a different story :| ...what I got from it all is they made it all up cuz they wanted attention & their nuthin but a bunch of ****en liars.


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## King Moonracer

I've obsessed over this for a while haha. There's got to be life after death. I've probably seen every ghost video there is, and ghosts are definitely real, I think there's one in my house. 

I think near death experiences are proof too. It seems every story is the exact same thing, people see a light at the end of the tunnel. Then they wake up and their lives are changed forever. They say they talked tp God or a dead relative and got the most incredibly peaceful feeling imaginable.

I'm actually a very skeptical person, bur I do believe in an afterlife. It just sucks being one of the only smart people that beluve in God. Stupid people try to prove his existence and make all Christians look bad with **** evidence.

I believe in God because of all the strange coincidences and things that happen in my life. 

But there's really no evidence against that there is no afterlife. Funny, there's more evidence for an afterlife than there is for there isn't.


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## OtherGlove

sophiek said:


> My belief on a creator is not solely based on my perception of this documental, I'm not so naive to consider this "evidence" as the truth, but it does make me question things. I believe in a creator for various reasons. I have no religion since I'm a theist, so I didn't think of it as sarcasm. I think all of us question what happened before, not only religious people. We question everything around us, no matter our believes. I also agree that from my standpoint I just observe and judge no one because nobody has the facts, and this article may just be another one of the bunch implying it's evidence of the truth, or it could be a bunch of bull, but it still makes me question it.


Yeah, I didn't feel like I was talking to a religious person. I went to Catholic school for 13 years and I was even an alter boy. Religion is a big issue for me. Ive seen it complete warp peoples minds, but Ive also known people who only hold it together because of their faith, and the idea of an afterlife. The happiest person Ive ever known was a 65 year old dishwasher from Brazil. He lived in a room in a garage, and sent every penny he made to his family, but the idea of moving on to something better was enough, and he was happy.


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## OtherGlove

King Moonracer said:


> I've obsessed over this for a while haha. There's got to be life after death. I've probably seen every ghost video there is, and ghosts are definitely real, I think there's one in my house.
> 
> I think near death experiences are proof too. It seems every story is the exact same thing, people see a light at the end of the tunnel. Then they wake up and their lives are changed forever. They say they talked tp God or a dead relative and got the most incredibly peaceful feeling imaginable.
> 
> I'm actually a very skeptical person, bur I do believe in an afterlife. It just sucks being one of the only smart people that beluve in God. Stupid people try to prove his existence and make all Christians look bad with **** evidence.
> 
> I believe in God because of all the strange coincidences and things that happen in my life.
> 
> But there's really no evidence against that there is no afterlife. Funny, there's more evidence for an afterlife than there is for there isn't.


Videos aren't proof, they're videos. If something can be faked, you have to assume it has been. Because even if 1% were fake and 99% are real, you'd never be able to prove which one was fake.

If there is an afterlife a persons story isn't proof. If there ISN'T an afterlife, how could there be proof? And we already covered the light


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## skygazer

I would suggest that if you're going to have a scientific discussion, you should avoid using layman's terms.

"There is no life after death because the person would be dead."

Do you see what I did there?

Also... Religion doesn't disprove science, and science doesn't disprove religion. 

Do you know the purpose of religion? 
It is to teach morals and give guidance in life. It's purpose is not for debate, it is for practice of being a good person and to do good.

Do you know the purpose of science?
(you've been to school, you should know this)


Back to topic: There is no scientific study that can prove entities are animate. 

P.S. Sorry, I hope I didn't seem like i'm trying to be an arse.


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## OtherGlove

skygazer said:


> I would suggest that if you're going to have a scientific discussion, you should avoid using layman's terms.
> 
> "There is no life after death because the person would be dead."
> 
> Do you see what I did there?
> 
> Also... Religion doesn't disprove science, and science doesn't disprove religion.
> 
> Do you know the purpose of religion?
> It is to teach morals and give guidance in life. It's purpose is not for debate, it is for practice of being a good person and to do good.
> 
> Do you know the purpose of science?
> (you've been to school, you should know this)
> 
> Back to topic: There is no scientific study that can prove entities are animate.
> 
> P.S. Sorry, I hope I didn't seem like i'm trying to be an arse.


Were using laymen terms because we are "laymen". Are you a scientist?
If i thought I needed someone else to tell me whats right and wrong, quite frankly I would kill myself. If you needed it Im certainly glad you've found it. If you want to get real crazy, they've shown signs of morals in non-human mammals. 
If that were the purpose of religion, or even if there were a *purpose* at all, other than it just *is* than it sounds like false direction and hope. When you say "the purpose" it almost helps back up my claim that it is an invention of man.
And you kind of did come off as an arse. Thats my job!


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## OtherGlove

And it's purpose is not up for debate only if you believe it's real.

I believe its purpose is to keep people in fear. You know like "Joe was a God-fearing man", which somehow means he lived a good, moral life, and certainly never forgot to leave a donation at church. If people are afraid they will do what they're told. I guess its purpose depends on where you think it comes from. 

I really hope good people arent all good, just in case those guys in the robes are right. I know too many atheists who are still able to think for themselves and still do a lot of good just because its right.


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## READY 4 CHANGE

personally I believe that there is a form of existence beyond this physical realm. As far as what it actually is, I couldn't really say because I'm not sure. What I will say is, I do believe life after death exists, not necessarily in the ways that most organized religions teach, but something more universal, I don't think everything is as black and white as some would make it out to be. I do however, personally know people who have shared their near death experiences with me, and as far as paranormal experiences, I've had my own. I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs, but I would caution against judging so harshly, keep in mind, there are many people who don't believe social anxiety is real, but ask anyone who suffers from it, and they'll tell you how real it really is. As far as religion and science, they're both theories, it all comes down to what you believe, evolution and creationism, neither one is really straight facts, it's all relative. All I say is that maybe things would be better if we all opened our minds a little, and I mean on both sides of the argument. Sorry for the rant, thanks for reading.


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## Altered

I've had experiences on DMT that are similar to what people report as near death experiences but it still hasn't convinced me that I will have a consciousness after I die.
After all we are all just animals on this planet. If you believe that you have a life after death, then what about a dolphin or a chimpanzee. Do they have a life after death, since they have a consciousnesses too. We are all made out of the same stuff.
I believe we return to where we came from when we die. Maybe your energy will live on somehow, but your memories will die with your body and brain, and that's mostly what makes you who you are.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any real proof to lead me to believe otherwise.


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## fredbloggs02

sophiek said:


> It goes beyond that, it's not just the light. In most cases, the surreal experience of seeing your own dead body lying on a hospital bed or having diseased family members come up to you and tell you it's not your time yet. I've seen a documental on this, of people who had near death experiences for up to 20 hours and they all had the same thing happen to them, this is all too coincidental isn't it? I've heard the same thing from a lot of people, not just a few. Since you don't believe in a creator, how can you logically explain creation? Everything on earth has a creator, anything man-made. So what makes you think otherwise for the bigger picture, who is the creator of the universe? There must be a purpose behind it, because nothing comes out of nothing. There are unexplainable reasons to our actions, even if subconciously, all of us act on things for a reason or purpose.


No, here you're using worldly logic detailing an arguement to beyond this world. Why must logic apply to something science has yet to grasp? I disagree that everything on this earth has a creator. The best I could say is all I know of the world is passed on from cause to effect from somewhere and I don't believe that, I've experienced differently. These arguements are such that the media throw our way and questions the media ask to bind people into a fabricated mass existence, not probing questions really, nor original. The 3rd pespective can be experienced in life too, it's calld "astro travel" if you diddn't already know, experienced by seasoned meditators and also in hypnosis. Abandon all idea of logic I'd say. Forget what you think you know because in all likelihood it won't apply anywhere else but this world, it can't, even by worldly logic. As soon as you introduce the notion of infinity and creation from nothing we discover another impossibility still to this day unexplained by this baseless understanding which many found their understanding of that which is and that which isn't. to me logic I find even more closed minded than the most ardent extremist as their chances unlike the extremists are next to nothing to explain anything and yet they still feel obliged to share their opinions.


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## justpassinby

I believe in a life after death. The environment is different than the one we have now, so we will get different bodies appropriate for that environment (just like the ones we have now are made for this environment, consisting of energy and matter). I definitely believe we die only once. I think all the accounts of near death experiences where someone claims to have died and come back from the dead are very real to the individual, but all in all are just perceptions and interpretations of normal brain activity and culmination of imaginations, and the "longing" to see where it is we are going after we die. I also think the force behind the phenomonen is evil, because it gives people false hope and reassurance.


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## mightyman

if someone commits a murder and never ever gets caught for it, doesn't it seem logical that theres some all-knowing creator thats going to hold him accountable for his crime in some afterlife.


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## jimbo1

ive had astral projection experiences but i dont think it has any thing to do with life after death.


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## Magaly

mightyman said:


> if someone commits a murder and never ever gets caught for it, doesn't it seem logical that theres some all-knowing creator thats going to hold him accountable for his crime in some afterlife.


..no


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## Milco

mightyman said:


> if someone commits a murder and never ever gets caught for it, doesn't it seem logical that theres some all-knowing creator thats going to hold him accountable for his crime in some afterlife.


Desirable, but not logical.
That would be projecting our own ideas onto the universe and realising we'd need a godly enforcer of those ideas; inventing and instrumentalising god to serve us.
If god were real, it would be the other way around.


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## OtherGlove

mightyman said:


> if someone commits a murder and never ever gets caught for it, doesn't it seem logical that theres some all-knowing creator thats going to hold him accountable for his crime in some afterlife.


What a weak attempt.
No, nothing I ever came across in my 13 year catholic education ever contained the slightest hint of logic.

"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."


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## Colhad75

My opinion is this, when we die our spirit floats around the universe for a 100 or so years and then we comeback as a different person. I think our soul is eternal.


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## Ramondo

King Moonracer said:


> I believe in God because of all the strange coincidences and things that happen in my life.


Wouldn't that simply be evidence for the existence of strange coincidences and for the reality that things happen in life?


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## OtherGlove

Ramondo said:


> Wouldn't that simply be evidence for the existence of strange coincidences and for the reality that things happen in life?


I wish you luck in this thread my friend


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## Mc Borg

OtherGlove said:


> Videos aren't proof, they're videos.* If something can be faked, you have to assume it has been.* Because even if 1% were fake and 99% are real, you'd never be able to prove which one was fake.


Someone calling 911 should not be responded to simply because it's _possible_ that some kid is prank calling? You do realize that fabricated evidence is a possibility in all cases were evidence can be used? Do you suggest that we reject *all* evidence?

I'm not particularly convinced by videos & pictures of ghosts, but to dismiss them on grounds that they _could_ be faked doesn't make much sense to me. It seems people are rather selective with what they use these types of arguments against. You never see these same people saying that the Hubble images shouldn't be trusted because they might be faked. I'd also like to point out that there are ways to tell whether images/videos have been edited, as well as showing that what's in a video/image was a product of camera malfunction, glare, pareidolia, etc.


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## Perfectionist

The opening article - if you can call it that - made me cringe from it's lack of supported claims. We do not "know" we are here for a purpose. 

If you want to believe that, knock yourself out, but it is not a fact. So until it is, I'm going to hang out here in skeptics land assuming there is absolutely nothing after we die, and no uplifting goal we are here to achieve. And it doesn't bother me one bit. I'm not going to waste my time worrying about it. Why bother? If some sort of additional spiritual plane does exist, it'll be there whether or not you stress out about it. 

As an aside, half my family thinks I have some sort of psychic tendancy. I don't.


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## Mc Borg

A skeptic wouldn't "assume" either way - they'd suspend judgment.

Agrippa's trilemma: 


> If we ask of any knowledge: "How do I know that it's true?", we may provide proof; yet that same question can be asked of the proof, and any subsequent proof. The Münchhausen Trilemma is that we have only three options when providing proof in this situation:
> 
> * The circular argument, in which theory and proof support each other (i.e. we repeat ourselves at some point)
> * The regressive argument, in which each proof requires a further proof, ad infinitum (i.e. we just keep giving proofs, presumably forever)
> * The axiomatic argument, which rests on accepted precepts (i.e. we reach some bedrock assumption or certainty)
> 
> The first two methods of reasoning are fundamentally weak, and because the Greek skeptics advocated deep questioning of all accepted values they refused to accept proofs of the third sort. The trilemma, then, is the decision among the three equally unsatisfying options.
> 
> In contemporary epistemology, advocates of coherentism are supposed to be accepting the "circular" horn of the trilemma; foundationalists are relying on the axiomatic argument. Not as popular, views that accept (perhaps reluctantly) the infinite regress are branded infinitism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münchhausen_Trilemma


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## wickedtruth

I believe we are an accident - an evolution that was not meant to be this intelligent.

I believe we human beings need an answer for everything and that is our obsession.

I believe if we kept things simple, we would be far more happier.

But I believe we need to search for whatever we're searching for, to go through this bleakness to finally hit the point where we accept things for what it is.

We are in power of our own life and choosing. We live forever through the people we meet in our lifetime. We show them that being kind and loving ( I get called a hippy for this. ) is our idealism. All we need to do is be truly, truly, understanding and for this reason - we need to go through the bleakness to create a better understanding for the next generation. That is how we live forever. To shape our society for the -better-.


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## verystormy

The reason people believe in life after death and vis a vis religon is out of understandable fear. The idea of death and nothing is a scary thought. Much nicer to think that we go on in this better place, but the reality is we dont. You die and that is it.

However, there is amazing comfort in science. When i die the molecules that comprise me will be realesed and many broken down to constituent atoms. Some of which will be utalised to form new people, new creatures and even new stars as some of your elements will actually form with He and escape earths atmosphere.

Most people dont realise that it is almost a statistical fact that you have oxygen in you that was last breathed by a dinosaur and Albert Einstein. So in the future you will become part of everything from the next Einstein to a future super model to rock.

That, for me is an amazing prospect.


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## Ivan AG

I do not and probably never will understand this fascination with the natural processes, such as the one described above my post, including evolution. 

Reminds me of Dawkins and his child-like interest in evolution. He even calls it "the elegant process".

Personally, I think robotics and AI is where it's at. If immortality is ever going to be achieved, it will come from this field, not from religion or fascination over the way things are. 

Why stop at observing natural processes like evolution and such?

Do one better and improve humanity through robotics. Don't just gawk at things you find interesting.


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## fdsafdsaf

sophiek said:


> I'm more confused than anyone else, but this article caught my attention. I can't believe I haven't investigated this topic further, but is there actual scientific proof that there's life after death? (discarding religion) What would be the point of all of us being here, to just disappear the day we're gone? It's rather pointless when I think about it. God, I hate wondering about the afterlife. :no I'm curious to read some opinions.


That article was nothing but gibberish..

So, when it comes to life and death experiences.. It really doesn't seem logical to me that the sense perceptions are still in function after the brain is deactivated such that one may see the same type of information as the brain interprets from the signals from the eyes. So unless the nearly dead ppl are lieing, it is more likely that their brains just make them think that they saw it. Yes the brain has that much power over our perception.


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