# In America, if you're not extroverted and talkative, you're an outcast



## meco1999 (May 28, 2011)

I don't know how it is in other countries, but in America, if you're very quiet and not extroverted and talkative, you're an outcast. You're made fun of and insulted at school as a kid by both kids and school staff. You're made fun of and insulted at work as an adult by your boss and co-workers. Your own family may even make fun of you, insult you, and eventually cast you off, as mine did. You're made to feel like a loser. No wonder we American S.A. sufferers become so isolated and don't like people very much after experiencing this treatment all of our lives.


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## cavemanslaststand (Jan 6, 2011)

I agree, and even in the movies we shifted from worshipping quiet, subtle James Dean to idolizing loud, brash aHoles like Tom Cruise.

Even generationally, I remembered when our great-grandparents were quieter pensive farmer people too, and it was not acceptable for us to make a scene and be drama queens.

Even dress styles have become loud and obnoxious.

Not arguing for oppressive rules against individuality. Just saying.

Return to reticence. Peace out.


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## AceRimmer (Nov 12, 2008)

cavemanslaststand said:


> Not arguing for oppressive rules against individuality.


The rules already oppress individuality. If you're not what is considered "normal", you get treated like crap. Those of us with introversion and/or SA are not considered normal. We're all expected to be extroverted, yapping clones who dress, talk, and act the same. Unless you have some really unique talent or get lucky, you're not allowed to deviate from it.


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## lyssado707 (Oct 29, 2004)

I agree. I wish I grew up in China.


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## David777 (Feb 6, 2011)

Unfortunately this appears to be true, shy socially awkward people are seen as being weak, losers, lacking masculinity, etc. As for myself I am just thankful that, judging from my look, you'd have a hard time knowing that I am socially awkward. However, once someone attempts to get to know me, the moment I open my mouth they know something is wrong. 

Which just causes me to want to keep to myself even more. I mean, why make this side of myself known if by keeping to myself I can keep it hidden? I'd much rather be seen as the angry loner, than to be seen as the socially awkward loser who is always by himself because he is unable to make friends. 

The only time I really have to deal with it is when I have a job, and that's because I spend so much time with those people that it is impossible to hide. And once they do find out, though I'm not made fun of, it is very obvious that I've become an outcast.


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## Marooned (Feb 20, 2004)

The US is a very hostile place to live for the meek, introverted, anxious, or intellectually inclined outside of some of its more liberal enclaves, but even there conformity is paramount. It is a hypercompetitive society in so many ways, from the obsession with sport to the consumptive one-upmanship that is the sole aim of most of our pursuits, that those who are unwilling or unable to participate in the madness are quite conspicuous and tend to provoke the ire of their compatriots for daring to be different. It's rather ironic considering that Americans pride themselves above all else on their freedom and individualism. Apparently that freedom is restricted to the freedom to consume and that individualism limited to the handful of identities and behaviors manufactured by our corporate masters, because when I look around at the people in this country, I have a hard time seeing anything but a nation of conformists who are most interested in money, prestige, appearances, and the latest gadgetry, and terrified or contemptuous of anyone or anything that doesn't look or think exactly as they do. As a product of this environment, I see some of these traits in myself as well.

The same is likely to be true to some extent in other western countries, but the US seems to be unique in this modern brand of browbeating, both within its borders and on the world stage. From the country's inception, we have had little concern for the needs of the less fortunate or those different from ourselves and have been all too willing to employ violence and intimidation to get what we want from them: The slaughter of the natives and Mexicans to appropriate the land for ourselves, the institution of slavery, the repression of women, the exploitation of workers, the imperial conquests that resulted (and continue to result) in the deaths of countless innocents. Our history is really little more than two centuries of bullying the rest of the world into submission, so perhaps it's little wonder that we treat each other so poorly. One can only be thankful that we've reached a point where ostracism has replaced lynching as the preferred mode of punishment for genetic variation.


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## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

Australia is exactly the same. I'd say that most societies around the globe favour the talkative extrovert.


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## howard26 (Jun 28, 2008)

But honestly, do you want to run with the pack? I don't. At this point in my life, i've accepted it. People can't get under my skin like they used to. I think our bunch will be better off later in life. I've seen it. I recently had a conversation with this guy who always tries to give me advice, and i was almost to the point of saying "but i don't want to be like you". He admitted that he married too young, and wished he had time for his hobbies. I have to admit, i was laughing inside.


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## gaz (Jun 27, 2008)

I don't think this problem is confined to America alone. Every country favours talkative and outgoing people. Introverts/shy people are outcasted everywhere.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm shy and introverted, and I've never felt like an outcast. I have gone through periods of feeling isolated, but that isolation was brought on by my own behavior. It was a self imposed isolation due to being too shy/anxious to reach out to others.

People who are shy or have SA tend to avoid social situations. And people make friends by putting themselves into social situations. So it's not like we're "outcasts" really. It's just that being introverted means we set ourselves up for less opportunities to make friends.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

*



In America, if you're not extroverted and talkative, you're an outcast

Click to expand...

*Even if true, if you're truly introverted would you even care that you're an outcast? My problem is more that I wish I could be more of an outcast but I'm not allowed (e.g. need to work, etc.).


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## Gamer85 (Sep 13, 2009)

*i dont*

i dont feel like an outcast. this is just part of who i am.


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## Social42 (Jun 26, 2012)

Have any of you read the book, "Quiet -- The Power of Introverts in a World That Won't Stop Talking." by Susan Cane? I think that it's a very insightful book and addresses the history of this issue in American society. Plus it looks at how Asian societies put less emphasis on being an extrovert. (I'm not done with the book; I'm about 3/4 through.) It really made me feel much better about my shyness, although "introvert" is not equivalent to just being shy, and not all introverts are shy. Introverts typically get energy from being alone and working on solitary projects, but also may enjoy the company of other people. However, they need more time alone than a typical "extrovert".


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## TrcyMcgrdy1 (Oct 21, 2011)

meco1999 said:


> I don't know how it is in other countries, but in America, if you're very quiet and not extroverted and talkative, you're an outcast. You're made fun of and insulted at school as a kid by both kids and school staff. You're made fun of and insulted at work as an adult by your boss and co-workers. Your own family may even make fun of you, insult you, and eventually cast you off, as mine did. You're made to feel like a loser. No wonder we American S.A. sufferers become so isolated and don't like people very much after experiencing this treatment all of our lives.


Common misconception about introverts is that they are anti social wall flowers. So far from the truth. Introverts like to socialize, they just get drained from the process, whereas extroverts gain energy and life from socializing and being the life of the party. I think, what you mean is, If you are socially awkward and don't have the ability to socialize well, you are an outcast. Just because you are not an extrovert and talkative doesn't make you an outcast. By saying that if you aren't extroverted an talkative, you are an outcast is making quite a large percentage of the general population an oucast. But I do understand what you mean, extroversion is rewarded whereas being socially inept is frowned upon.


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## laura024 (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh, and if you're quiet and introverted, people get suspicious and think you're the next James Holmes when there is actually NO profile of a killer. 

Introverts contribute to society in meaningful ways. Many people don't realize this, and should be educated. We don't need to be converted. We are fine how we are.

You know what I say? **** stereotypes and live as you wish. It's your life. If you haven't done any harm to yourself or others, you should be left alone.


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## onemoregirl (Aug 14, 2012)

In American society, it is easy for introverts to feel as though they are swimming against the tide, but I agree with the poster above that there comes a time when you just need to be ok with it and realize, 'This is who I am and there are others out there just like me.' 

I wonder how many introverts out there are trying to act like extroverts, and at what personal cost to them? Speaking personally, I attempted an extroverted career in small-town journalism where I had to wear all the 'hats': Interviewing, writing, editing, photography, page layout. The deadlines were constant and the interaction with people in a highly-stressful office caused me to become worn down and prone to panic attacks (a tyrannical boss didn't help matters, either). Thankfully, I left that job and now work at a library, which is more suited to my personality. While I am not a 'pavement-pounder' anymore, off to cover that important story, I am much happier in a job that allows me to show my true personality: Introverted, and great one-on-one with patrons as I help the find a book, movie, or assist them on the computers.


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## dust3000 (Oct 13, 2009)

Some people are insecure and take it personally when the socially anxious person doesn't talk to them or seems to ignore them.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

Kon said:


> Even if true, if you're truly introverted would you even care that you're an outcast?


Are introverts really meant to be that complacent? Maybe an extreme introvert wouldn't mind being an outcast, but that's rare. I think most introverts still desire low-key socialising and acceptance in social groups.


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## onemoregirl (Aug 14, 2012)

wrongnumber said:


> Are introverts really meant to be that complacent? Maybe an extreme introvert wouldn't mind being an outcast, but that's rare. I think most introverts still desire low-key socialising and acceptance in social groups.


This is my feeling; I need friends, just not too many of them; and they need to be deep and enriching friendships, at that. I long for a friendship where I can talk one-on-one with someone about deep subjects like philosophy, religion, politics, creativity and etc. I actually feel like I get a 'high' or a 'buzz' after that sort of conversation. It's enriching imo.


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## Rocketman1973 (Nov 26, 2011)

It's the same problem in Canada as well. I've always been the quiet, reserved one and have always been an out cast. This is pretty much why I have absolutely no friends. People tend to stay away from me, including what pathetic family I have left.


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## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

onemoregirl said:


> In American society, it is easy for introverts to feel as though they are swimming against the tide, but I agree with the poster above that there comes a time when you just need to be ok with it and realize, 'This is who I am and there are others out there just like me.'
> 
> I wonder how many introverts out there are trying to act like extroverts, and at what personal cost to them? Speaking personally, I attempted an extroverted career in small-town journalism where I had to wear all the 'hats': Interviewing, writing, editing, photography, page layout. The deadlines were constant and the interaction with people in a highly-stressful office caused me to become worn down and prone to panic attacks (a tyrannical boss didn't help matters, either). Thankfully, I left that job and now work at a library, which is more suited to my personality. While I am not a 'pavement-pounder' anymore, off to cover that important story, I am much happier in a job that allows me to show my true personality: Introverted, and great one-on-one with patrons as I help the find a book, movie, or assist them on the computers.


I'm so glad you found a suitable job... that's been my problem. Even in pretty menial/non-social positions I tend to get dragged across the rocks about how I need to be more extroverted yadda yadda. Again, this has had no correlation with the job requirements: people just cannot accept when one deviates from the cookie-cut, desired personality of this society.


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## Vegadad (Aug 19, 2012)

It is awesome to find this thread on this forum. I have been thinking the same thing for years now, how if you don't fit the mold in terms of a dominant personality style, you are relegated to an outlier position...I tried to express this idea to my very outgoing ex-wife and she dismissed the idea. Experiences like this just reinforce the notion that extros just don't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain it. 

I'm tired of feeling like there is something inherently wrong with me, which has been drilled into me since forever. I'm tired of anxiety. I am trying to be more positive, be myself in the relentless onslaught of American life, but it is daunting. 

I'm glad I found this thread, at least, it gives me hope and affirmation. Thank you for being who you all are.


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## OneIsALonelyNumber (Mar 28, 2005)

lyssado707 said:


> I agree. I wish I grew up in China.


Agreed... I have often felt I would have done better in a more reserved country, like Japan.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

One word for you...MOVE.

There are countries where just being an American will give you some social status. You can have a cute girlfriend and nice little house and be happy. 

I really do think that there are people who should just pick up and move. Why be miserable?


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## Vegadad (Aug 19, 2012)

If that would solve the problem, sure. However, that's not the point. The point is to stop feeling negative about yourself despite how life may be here. One has to make a stand for oneself at some point, to create a space that can be peaceably inhabited, without fear or reprisal. 

I think the point of the thread, at least how I interpret it, is to recognize and acknowledge the reality of life here in America, for some of us. If you don't see it like it is, you risk responding to it as if there is something wrong with you. 

The whole point is to stop trying to be like every one else, to stop judging yourself based on what you see outside of yourself, and get on with feeling good about who you are, based upon what is inside of yourself....you! 

Sure, it would interesting to know what life might be like in Japan, but I can't escape the fact I am an American. I can be happy as an introvert in an extrovert dominated culture, but unless I recognize that I am an introvert living in an extrovert dominated culture, I will forever be swept up in trying to be someone that I am not...a painful exercise.


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## loumon (Jul 6, 2012)

Social42 said:


> Introverts typically get energy from being alone and working on solitary projects, but also may enjoy the company of other people. However, they need more time alone than a typical "extrovert".


That's 90% me. The other 10% wants to explore the world before it's too late.


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## applesauce5482 (Apr 26, 2012)

True. When I get older, I want to travel to other countries to see how it's like elsewhere.


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## flower2blossom (Apr 12, 2009)

Vegadad said:


> If that would solve the problem, sure. However, that's not the point. The point is to stop feeling negative about yourself despite how life may be here. One has to make a stand for oneself at some point, to create a space that can be peaceably inhabited, without fear or reprisal.


I agree with your view. While American culture tends to be dominated by extraverts, being an introvert shouldn't be a problem if you are comfortable about who you are.

The country where you live wouldn't matter if you feel negative about yourself and scared of being around people. That was me when I lived in Japan! I notice that Japan is often considered a county for introverts but it's not entirely true (I feel obligated to explain this every time Japan is mentioned in this way ).

While you don't have to be super talkative in Japan, you need to be at least "moderately" sociable at school or work. You are expected to attend a company dinner or/and outing at your job because teamwork is important.. if you skip those often, you may be labeled "anti-social".. At school, where extroverts dominate more, if you are overly quiet, you may be called "dark" and bullied.

At work, you are expected to look pleasant, communicate with colleagues well, and be sociable when occasions arise (your boss might say attendance for a company/division dinner/drink is not required, but it's almost mandatory). In another word, you got to be socially savvy, and it's hard to be in that way when you are anxious all the time! I had a tough time when I worked for a Japanese company.

The point again is being comfortable about yourself no matter where you are


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

meco1999 said:


> I don't know how it is in other countries, but in America, if you're very quiet and not extroverted and talkative, you're an outcast. You're made fun of and insulted at school as a kid by both kids and school staff. You're made fun of and insulted at work as an adult by your boss and co-workers. Your own family may even make fun of you, insult you, and eventually cast you off, as mine did. You're made to feel like a loser. No wonder we American S.A. sufferers become so isolated and don't like people very much after experiencing this treatment all of our lives.


I have lived in a few countries. In other countries, I actually found people to be friendlier and more talkative than people in the U.S. But there is something very striking about how Americans socialize, especially in middle America: it's very aggressive. One is expected, on occasion, to raise one's voice for no apparent reason. That means you've just given the punch line. At that point, everyone is expected to emit loud braying laughter. If you can't perform that ritual, you're considered rude. I guess what I'm saying is that American socializing has this back-slapping quality I haven't seen elsewhere. But, if anything, Americans are less friendly than people in at least a few other countries I can think of.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

Rocketman1973 said:


> It's the same problem in Canada as well. I've always been the quiet, reserved one and have always been an out cast. This is pretty much why I have absolutely no friends. People tend to stay away from me, including what pathetic family I have left.


I actually found Canadians more mild mannered and friendly than people "south of the border," as you say up there. But I was never in Alberta.


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## Sierpinski (Jun 17, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> One word for you...MOVE.
> 
> There are countries where just being an American will give you some social status. You can have a cute girlfriend and nice little house and be happy.
> 
> I really do think that there are people who should just pick up and move. Why be miserable?


I was actually in the situation you just recommended! (Except that my girlfriend was male.) But I let my career fall apart, and now I'm stranded out in the middle of nowhere back in the States. (I'm over-simplifying a bit. My career was probably destined to fragment and decay anyway.)


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