# Anyone here who is on testosterone replacement therapy?



## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

My testosterone levels are hardly measurable, they're that low. I recently found out about it. I always had low testosterone but never ever had it been that low. On top of that my estradiol is also skyrocketing. I don't know how much estradiol women usually have but my levels are pretty high and way above the normal range.
I wonder how big of a role these hormone issues play in my depression. I've been very depressed the past few months with totally unstable moods. I may feel mediocre one moment and the next moment I'm despaired. 
I also mentioned to my psychiatrist that I have low testosterone but it didn't seem to interest him very much. Every doctor only cares about his own ****. :roll


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## tinkerbaulm (Apr 28, 2012)

*Anyone here who is on testosterone replacement therapy*

I read your post and it looks to me that your in need of a good urologist and go get checked out. Before you make an appointment find out what the urologist thinks that the normal levels of testosterone should be for a man and that will give you some idea as to how he thinks and if your appointment would even be worth keeping with him. You should at least be in the 400 to 500 mg/dl range to be a normal individual. You may have testical issues where your testicals are not producing enough testrosterone or you could have pituitary or hypothalamus issues. You need to get a total check up and find why your testicals are not producing enough testosterone to keep you functioning normal. I personally am 67 yrs old and setting at 260 mg/dl and that is considered low. Anything below 300 ng/dl is getting to the point of needing attention. Low Testosterone will affect your mood and libido and many other aspects of your being. If your really interested in getting yourself educated on this issue I would suggest that you read the following information below and then go to this web site where there are lectures by Dr. E Barry Gordon M.D. who is very knowledgable on this subject. http://www.thehiddendisease.com

I'm sure your going through a lot of trama being super low in testosterone and don't put it off on trying to find a Doctor who is sympathetic toward testosterone replacement. I'm not a doctor but I have done extensive study on this subject for the last year and in my personal opinion you need help in this area getting your testosterone levels up to a normal level so you can enjoy your life. I'm sure your going through a lot of hormone hell... Good Luck and this information I hope will be helpful to you.

*Overview*
Testosterone is a male hormone that plays a role in the sexual development and characteristics of men. Testosterone is secreted by the testicles and adrenal glands. It is responsible for building muscle mass and bone density, fat distribution, production of hemoglobin, cholesterol metabolism, sexual functioning, concentration, memory and mood.
*Types of Testosterone*
There are several types of testosterone in the body. Testosterone either circulates freely in the blood or is bound to several different proteins. According to a 2006 study in Clinical Chemistry, 44 percent of testosterone is bound to sex hormone-binding globulin, or SHBG, 50 percent to albumin, 3.5 percent to cortisol-binding globulin and 2 to 3 percent is free or unbound. Testosterone that is free or bound to albumin is considered biologically active, since testosterone is bound weakly to albumin and can easily become unbound. The sum of free testosterone and albumin bound testosterone is known as bioavailable testosterone. This is the portion of testosterone that is able to enter the cells. Testosterone that is bound to SHBG is biologically inactive because the bond between testosterone and SHBG is strong, and testosterone cannot become unbound from it.
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*Normal Levels of Testosterone*
According to Quest Diagnostics, the normal range of total testosterone levels is 250 to 1,100 nanograms per deciliter, or ng/dL, in men age 18 to 69 and 90 to 890 ng/dL in men 70 to 89. The normal range for free testosterone in men age 18 to 69 is 46 to 224 ng/dL and men 70 to 89 is 6 to 73 ng/dL. Bioavailable testosterone should measure 110 to 575 ng/dL in men age 18 to 69 and 15 to 150 ng/dL in men 70 to 89.
*Factors Affecting Testosterone Levels*
Testosterone levels vary according to age and stage of sexual development. Levels in men diminish slowly with age beginning at age 30, according to the Cleveland Clinic. Testosterone levels also vary throughout the day, so more than one test may need to be required to get an accurate reading. Testosterone levels tend to be highest in the morning, so most doctors prefer to do testing early in the morning.
*Meaning of Results*
Low levels of testosterone in males may be caused by illness, late puberty, testicular failure, hypogonadism, genetic diseases, physical injury to the testes or alcoholism. High levels of testosterone may be caused by tumors of the testicles, adrenal gland tumors, anabolic steroids, precocious puberty, congenital adrenal hyperplasia or hyperthyroidism.
*Considerations*
Certain medical conditions can change the level of SHBG and albumin in the body. Obesity, steroids use, kidney disease and hypothyroidism may decrease SHBG levels. Conditions that may increase SHBG levels include hyperthyroidism, estrogen use and cirrhosis. This may alter the level of total testosterone, while the free and bioavailable testosterone levels are normal.


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

^^ there is a lot of good information in this post, however, with all due respect, the statement about the normal TT range for an 19-69 yo male being 250 -1,100 ng/dl seems a bit off. I realize these are quoted "normal" ranges, but having a testosterone of 250 at any age, is low, let alone someone in the stated age range. 

The most important piece of information I can pass on to you regarding Testosterone and Testosterone replacement, and I can't stress this enough, is that most doctors (and by most, I mean the majority) don't have a good understanding of this subject. 

That being said, I don't know what your blood results were, but I've read of MANY people who, with the help of a COMPETENT doctor, have observed unbelievable results. I've actually read on different forums of some people who've said it's the first time they've actually felt alive in their life. But, the key is, you HAVE TO find a doctor who's very knowledgeable in this field, therefore, it is up to you to educate yourself thoroughly on this subject, because I'm sure you will find out soon, the medical community has a very misunderstood and undereducated view on this subject. I can't explain how important it is to educate yourself on this so you can go into TRT with a firm understanding of how to best approach it.

Let me help you a bit and touch on some of the basics. If it is determined that you will need TRT, which based on your post, it seems it will, these are some things to know.

You will want to go the route of injectable testosterone. This is by far the most effective method. I can't tell you how many cases I've read about people trying gels and experiencing benefits for a month of two, only to cease seeing results, or not ever feeling results, and here's why. 

2 reasons:
1. Many people don't absorb the gel well enough to get enough testosterone in their blood stream. I've heard of many people trying gels and actually feeling worse. And after going in for blood work, see their testosterone has actually dropped since starting treatment. The reason for this is, when you introduce exogenous testosterone into your system, your body recognizes there's testosterone in the body, and shuts off its natural production to try and get your body back into a level that it thinks it should be at. If your body does this, and you are not getting enough testosterone into your system to counteract what you're losing as your body shuts down its natural production, you will end up with levels below what you started with.

2. Gels have shown to have a higher probability to aromatase, which means convert to estrogen, which you don't want.

In terms of dosing, many doctors, if they prescribe injections, will have you injected with a large dose of testosterone once every 2wks or even 3wks, this is no good. You want to inject, at the most, every week. The reason being, when you put testosterone into your body, it will begin to metabolize it, and if you inject large doses at intervals of once every 2ks or 3 wks, you will experience great peaks and valleys in your testsoterone levels, and also in how you feel. You see, when you inject testosterone, it immediately spikes the testosterone in your body. When you dose high and longer intervals, it spikes really high to begin, but it then starts to slowly fade back down, and by the time you inject again, you are back at a low to low/normal level of testosterone in your body. This jumping high and fading back down creates the roller coaster effect of feeling great for a few days and then feeling like **** by the time of your next injection. When you inject at a lower dose, more frequently (say once a week, ideally once every 5 days, and I've actually heard of once every 3 days) you limit the roller coaster effect bcuz you are experiencing a consistent high to high/normal level of testosterone, which is ideal. Additionally, for whatever reason, injecting more frequently seems to reduce the amount of aromatazation that occurs, which is good because it keeps you testosterone high and your estrogen low.

Next topic, AI (aromatase inhibitor). If you experience elevated estrogen due to treatment, which elevated estrogen produces undesirable effects, ie basically eliminating or reducing the beneficial effects of the exogenous testosterone, these drugs help combat this. However, as I mentioned above, if you inject more frequently, you will experience less aromatase action, and eliminate the need for an additional drug, which is always good.

Another topic to look in to is hcg, which basically prevents your nuts from shrinking and therefore keeps your body producing what testosterone it still did, and so you would have the benefit of the exogenous testosterone plus whatever your own body was producing, which is a big plus, but it is also another shot you'd have to inject once/3days or so.

This is a good start. It's taken me over a year to gather this info, I do have more, but this is the abridged version, but also a very good foundation. If you have any questions I'd be happen to offer my best help. Again, do as much research on this as you can, so you can understand and even question your doctors suggestions for your treatment.

Also, if you live in the US, there is a guy named Chip who is very knowledgeable on TRT. I have read countless people's testimonies on a variety of forums about how much he's changed their lives with his treatments. From what I've read, he seems to really know his stuff. Type in 'Chip Maximus' in Google and check him out. Not only his site, but also the different forums with his patients who talk about him. Just a suggestion. 

Either way, best of luck to you. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.


Nate


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

Oh and also.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, keep us updated on your progress if you do choose to do testosterone replacement therapy. I have a sneaky theory that SA and low testosterone are tightly linked.


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## Trillion (May 4, 2012)

Hi there, I believe I have some valid input for this thread.

This is my first post, so I'll give a brief history of my SA issues. 

From my first step into primary school, until my last step out of high school, I always had problems connecting with other children. I was ostracized by my peers all throughout my school years, and never had any lasting friendships in primary school, as hard as I tried. Being so long ago, I can't tell you why this was, but what I can tell you is that throughout my earlier school years and some of my high school years, I was bullied. Silently that is. There were only a few instances of name dropping, and never really any physical bullying. It was always myself being excluded from group activities. I was the odd one out. As you can imagine, my confidence had taken a hit by the time I landed in high school (12 years old). I was extremely shy and awkward, and at this stage I just did my best to fit in, but since - mistakenly - I had followed a group of boys from my primary school there, I struggled to connect. I just didn't know how to speak to people and quickly found myself in the same position of being ostracized from the majority that I had when I was younger. Eventually, under the pressure of a demanding and emotionally unresponsive school, I dropped out. I was 14. After a couple of months of being huddled up in my bedroom with only an Xbox for a friend, my parents decided to get me into another school. A typical, every-day British comprehensive school. Here, I did not find myself the subject of the same torture I had endured for years (I made friends with people and despite struggling to connect, they accepted me), but laden with the burning images of the past I found myself dealing with social anxiety, and at 15, under this stress, caved in and left school. I then spent nearly 3 years inside my bedroom losing the few scraps of confidence I had left after the war. I didn't go out in that time. Not once. Until at 17, I learned to drive. It was a way of getting out, without getting out. I was outside, but inside. Within the comfort and protection of my own space, but still OUT. I managed to call up a few friends from my previous school who I had been in contact with on the internet and slowly gained a small amount of esteem. After about 2 years of driving around in a circle, I picked up enough confidence to get to college. This was quite an effort, but I managed to stick out the year while picking up a few friends. Every social encounter was quite distressing to me, usually leaving me with my heart thumping through my chest and a pool of sweat developing. I still remember the induction day - a small 30x30' room absolutely packed with people. I recall the awkward motions I made entering the room, and feeling like I was the focus of attention. I remember tripping over someone's bag and going red in the face. My heart collapsing to the floor. My brain melting inside my head. The thoughts screaming through my mind like F1 cars. The sweat. The unavoidable cycle that only prompts more negative thoughts. The catch 22. You guys know this.

After the year was up I thought I could go at it again this year, but I was wrong. In September last year I started on an IT course. Unfortunately it was full of kids just like the ones at my first high school, and I quickly developed a disliking to it. Add to that a teacher who chose out a name at random and found something about that person to make fun of, and.. yeah. 

Anyway, the real reason I'm even making this post is to do with the fact that I had my testosterone levels checked in December of last year, and also just today (went for the test - results come back next week for this test). Last year I developed an interest in my health and image, and took up body building. I absolutely love it and I must say that it's one of the best things I've done. I feel great after a work out and my confidence IS boosted somewhat, even if only temporarily. Having an interest in body building, and a science-oriented and inquisitive mind, I read into the mechanics behind muscle building. Testosterone. I was curious about where my levels stood, and had the first test in December 2011. My results for total testosterone came back at 16.4nmol/L, or 473ng/dl converted. I was told by my GP that this was normal, but sceptical, I studied for information on the internet. I found that the medical profession fails to take into account the age of the subject, and so this 'normal' spectrum, ranging from roughly 350-1000ng/dl applies to every individual aged 20, or 90. Given that there is an expected decline in testosterone level in an ageing male, how can this be? How can a 20 year old with a testosterone level of 350 be considered normal, when a 90 year old with a testosterone level of 349 is not? It can't. The average testosterone level of a 20 year old male should sit at around 7-800ng/dl. 473 is akin to the level of an 80 year old according to the data I have studied.

Anyway, given my history of general anxiety/social anxiety/depression and my testosterone level of 473, I would argue that there is a case for a link between testosterone level and these problems. Which one causes which though.. that's anyone's guess at the moment. I suspect though, that increasing testosterone in an individual with social anxiety, would reduce the anxiety. I recall reading of the successful use of testosterone in people with SA and/or anxiety/depression. Anecdotal evidence, but still, evidence.

Since my previous testosterone check I have moved doctors, and I feel that my current GP is more understanding and sympathetic towards my plight. I wrote an entire document stating my evidence that I should be considered for TRT, and he seemed to understand. I am just awaiting the results of the current blood tests. He said that if my levels come back low-normal I can be referred to an endocrinologist, but from what I've read even these may not be sympathetic towards a low, but within range testosterone level.

What would you guys recommend? If my current level comes back low, but within range and there is any risk of the endocrinologist not prescribing me TRT I understand that I could sabotage the results even further by staying awake for an extended period of time and not eating before the test.

Is there any way the GP himself could prescribe me a script for testosterone? Even if in the end the endocrinologist IS understanding, I would rather end this suffering NOW than wait 6 months or whatever to be referred.

Thank you for reading, Mike.


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

Mike,

I believe I mentioned it in my post above, and I've said it in other posts as well, but if your doctor is unwilling to help you, type in Google: Chip maximum HRT. If you submit your bloodwork, he should reply. Also, I believe he would talk to you over the phone to decide what route is the best for you.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Seeing as I am 25 and I will be needing to replace my testosterone levels for the rest of my life, getting an IM shot of testosterone by a doctor every week indefinitely is so f'ing unrealistic. I am getting annoyed having to go there every 2.5-3 weeks for a shot. I feel so much better when I have the correct levels in my system, as my depression is mostly gone. I am able to feel alive while on this treatment. 

I know I experience peaks and valleys but I have no other choice. The thought of putting some disgusting gel on myself EVERYDAY and having it risk rubbing off on my partner during sex, that would not be an option for me. 

Since only the injections and the gel is covered, those are my only choices. I would love to have the patches but they come at a cost of $80/month for the rest of my life, which I just don't see as worth it.

No doctor seems to take this seriously or know wtf they are doing regarding how serious low testosterone levels are in relation to depression/fatigue/mood swings. They would rather throw every other stupid SSRI and antidepressant at you then actually dust off their brains and use them to find a solution. They seem to enjoy doing their jobs as mindlessly as possible.

HRT was actually used to treat depression before anti-depressants were ever created, but lost popularity as soon as they did.

In the end its just a fail for every treatment regarding practicality, but whatever.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I heard another SASer mention that there is an option of surgically implanting testosterone pellets as a means for HRT. I am going to look into that when I get to see my endocrinologist/urologist this June.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Hi guys,
thanks for the great replies. Sorry that I reply so late I have a lot of stuff going on.

I have also read about TRT before. My levels have probably always been low. I had my first test around the age of 20 and even then I had 250ng/dl! And I was always told I'm fine. One endo told me even if I had lower Testosterone I'd still not get anything.
I have been to many endocrinologists and they all told me everything's okay. Noone cared about my symptoms like: depression,lack of muscle mass,lack of strength,storing fat on the lower body like women do.
The problem is that most endocrinologists absolutely suck. They don't know much about TRT and have a very conservative opinion about it. Urologists are usually more willing to listen but they don't understand hormones. The best a urologist can do is prescribe gel or injections but then what do you do if you need more than testosterone? What if your estrogen gets too high under TRT? Then urologists will most likely be unable to help.

I have had many blood tests over the years and I always had low T and low LH, too. This makes it look like my issue is that my brain doesn't produce enough LH.
A few years ago I had a lhrh stimulation test which was normal, meaning my brain reacted to the injection and my LH and FSH were raised by it.
But overall my T is usually borderline low. I also had a few tests were it was in the middle but usually it was low.
But what's strange is that sometimes my free testosterone was high while my serum testosterone was low because of SHBG also being low. I was told that having high free testosterone is good and that this is the only thing which really counts but if having a high free androgen index means you're golden then why do I have these problems? My muscle mass and strength are ridiculous. I can't even do 1 regular pushup. I went to the gym for years trying to gain muscle mass in order to look normal to no avail. I got more and more aches and pains in my body and had to give up because it simply made no sense.

I also think that gels suck. I tried T gel for 1 week last year and I hated it.
I could never go to a doctor every week for an injection this is really unrealistic.
I think many who are on TRT inject themself but I don't know if I could do that.
Injecting into a muscle is really scary. Injecting into fat tissue would be much easier but I think testosterone is always injected into the muscle.
I also don't have a good doctor. I have been to all endocrinologists in my area they all sucked I cannot go to them again. I don't know what I'll do now. I am sure that I needed to get on TRT but don't know who to go to. I'm also not in the US or the UK where they seem to have many TRT experts. This absolutely sucks. I have been looking for help for 10 years now and all doctors I went to sucked.

A few weeks ago I had a test at a urologist and my results were absolutely horrible.
My testosterone was lower than ever before and at the same time my estradiol was way too high. I have no clue how this is possible. Also my LH which always used to be low was high. These results were so concerning that I decided to repeate the test and now the levels were back to "normal" again. Now my T is again borderline and my LH is low again and my E2 is also normal again. I don't understand how it's possible that my E2 was so high. Do you know if having a lot of stress or lack of sleep can cause E2 to rise?

test from 1 month ago:

LH 6 mIU/ml Norm: 1.5-8.6
FSH 3.9 mU/ml Norm: <15
SHBG 53 nmol/l Norm: 15-45
E2 70 pg/ml Norm: 8-42
Testosterone 0.5 ug/l Norm: 3-9

latest test:

LH 1,6 IU/l Norm 1,7-8,6
E2 21 ng/l Norm 7-43
Testosterone 3,1 ug/l Norm 3-9
SHBG 29 nmol/l Norm 15-45
Free Androgen Index 37 Norm 35-90

But I also wonder can low T really explain all these symptoms like ridiculously low strength and muscle mass? If I had lower body fat I'd look like someone who escaped from a concentration camp.
If I have let's say 300ng/dl and I go on TRT and then have 600ng/dl would this really make that much of a difference?
I worry what if low T isn't the explanation and even with higher T I wouldn't feel different?


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

Hey, there's actually someone on here who just posted about this, his name is jmilz I believe, thought you might be interested.


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

I've been on HRT for over a year now, and it has made a huge difference in my moods, and in controling my anxiety! I can time my testosterone shots by my moods, when I am due for a shot, I find myself becoming irratable or depressed. I was fortunate that my Doctor was also taking Testosterone injections after he had been treated for depression for several years (information that he freely shared with me).


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

Chpinnlr said:


> I've been on HRT for over a year now, and it has made a huge difference in my moods, and in controling my anxiety! I can time my testosterone shots by my moods, when I am due for a shot, I find myself becoming irratable or depressed. I was fortunate that my Doctor was also taking Testosterone injections after he had been treated for depression for several years (information that he freely shared with me).


Hey Chipinnlr, thanks for your input ! You're lucky to have the doctor you do, glad things worked out so well for you !!


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

Dr House said:


> Seeing as I am 25 and I will be needing to replace my testosterone levels for the rest of my life, getting an IM shot of testosterone by a doctor every week indefinitely is so f'ing unrealistic. I am getting annoyed having to go there every 2.5-3 weeks for a shot. I feel so much better when I have the correct levels in my system, as my depression is mostly gone. I am able to feel alive while on this treatment.
> 
> I know I experience peaks and valleys but I have no other choice. The thought of putting some disgusting gel on myself EVERYDAY and having it risk rubbing off on my partner during sex, that would not be an option for me.
> 
> ...


I talked to my doctor about the Peaks and valleys and he moved my injection times closer together for me which has helped. I'm doing the IM shots myself at home, it takes a little prctice at first but there really is nothing to it. The hardest part is preping the shot.

I guess I was really fortunate to find a Doctor that not only understood what I was dealing with, but had experienced it himself. He has really saved me alot of aggrivation. Like I said earlier he was on anti-depressants for some time before he started HRT.


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## doublerainbow (May 20, 2012)

Hi everyone! So happy to read about hormones!! I have always believed my hormones (or my susceptibility to them) affect my mood. I am female.

I am currently being evaluated by an endo, but she said that since my period is regular there cannot be anything wrong with me hormonally (basically). Does anyone know if that is an accurate statement as far as endocrine disorders go?


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## doublerainbow (May 20, 2012)

Oh and Chpinnlr, are you off antidepressants now and how is that working?

I am curious if the hormonal balance gets adjusted, does the need for antidepressants immediately go away or did you phase it out?


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

doublerainbow said:


> Oh and Chpinnlr, are you off antidepressants now and how is that working?
> 
> I am curious if the hormonal balance gets adjusted, does the need for antidepressants immediately go away or did you phase it out?


My depression was never treated, so i wasn't on them. My Doctor was on anti-depressannts and according to him he wasn't taking them any longer, but I don't have any info on how long it took him to get off them. I was surprized that he shared as much information as he did!


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Chpinnlr said:


> I talked to my doctor about the Peaks and valleys and he moved my injection times closer together for me which has helped. I'm doing the IM shots myself at home, it takes a little prctice at first but there really is nothing to it. The hardest part is preping the shot.
> 
> I guess I was really fortunate to find a Doctor that not only understood what I was dealing with, but had experienced it himself. He has really saved me alot of aggrivation. Like I said earlier he was on anti-depressants for some time before he started HRT.


I can't do them myself, I have a severe phobia of needles but my mother is a RN, I wish she would just give me the injections.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

@ Chpinnlr

Can you tell us more about what you inject and how much and how often? And where do you inject?
Into the thighs or glutes?
Do you have to inject into the muscle? I really don't know if I could do that and push a needle deep into the tissue. I could inject under the skin but into the muscle is scary.
I'd also worry that I could hit a blood vessel. I guess injecting into a blood vessel would be pretty dangerous.


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

thundercats said:


> @ Chpinnlr
> 
> Can you tell us more about what you inject and how much and how often? And where do you inject?
> Into the thighs or glutes?
> ...


I inject 1 1/2 ml Depo-Testosterone Cypionate every two weeks, I use a 1" 22g syringe to inject, and a 1 1/2" BD needle to fill the syringe for injection. I inject into my thigh and I alternate each injection from right to left. It has to be an IM injection so you have to hit the muscle. The muscle tissue it self has no feeling so the only pain (?) you will feel is the needle piercing the skin, it is really just a pinch. Then it is just some pressure as the needle moves into the tissue. Once the needle is in you pull up on the plunger if there is blood take it out throw it away and start over, which sucks cause this crap is pricey! LOL! It has only ever happened to me once and it dosen't hurt any more than a bruise for a day or so and you get a little discoloration like a bruise. So it's not dangerous just annoying and expensive. Giving myself injections was scary at first, but it has become easier and easier as time goes on, I've been doing it for 7 or 8 months now, I was having them done at the Doctor before that. If you can overcome the intial fear of the needle and the nerves that come from giving yourself an injection it really isn't that bad. I know that alot of people have a phobia about needles, but if you think you can handle injecting yourself under the skin then you can do this.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

Hello, what kind of T levels do you get with your injection regimen?

And are your other hormones stable? I wonder what do you have to do when you start TRT? Do you have to get blood tests every few weeks to see if your T levels are at the desired level and if your other hormones, like estradiol, are not being raised as well?
I worry what do you do if you go on TRT and then your T is raised but your body converts it into estrogens? 
To me TRT appears to be really complicated because a lot of things can go wrong.

And did you also consider nebido? 

What scares me is that I read testimonies of people who also inject testosterone and accidentally injected it in a blood vessels and then directly started to cough and felt as if they were dying. I read that injecting oil into a blood vessel is dangerous. This really scares me. With my underlying anxiety issues I'd probably directly get an anxiety attack if I injected myself. :afr

And what I also wonder is how do you have to store the open testosterone bottle? Does it need to be kept cool? If you only use 1,5ml every 2 weeks then does the bottle stay fresh until you've used it all?


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

thundercats said:


> Hello, what kind of T levels do you get with your injection regimen?
> 
> And are your other hormones stable? I wonder what do you have to do when you start TRT? Do you have to get blood tests every few weeks to see if your T levels are at the desired level and if your other hormones, like estradiol, are not being raised as well?
> I worry what do you do if you go on TRT and then your T is raised but your body converts it into estrogens?
> ...


I did Blood tests at 3 months and 6 months, i don't have copies of my tests, not sure I would know what I was looking at anyway.

I never considered any other options for treatment, and Like i explained earlier if you chek you syringe, by pulling out the plunger to check for blood before injecting, no worries about blood vessel injections (Or I'm just blissfuly ignorant, which is okay with me also!).

I store the open testoterone in my sock drawer? Dry, dark, room tempature. The anxiety about self injecting was short lived for me. Saving me a trip to the doctors office every 3 weeks (at the time) was all the incentive that I needed to try it myself.

I know that every treatment has risks, including side effects, but for me TRT has been one of the best things I've ever done for my own well being! Both mentaly and physically!


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

Chpinnlr said:


> I did Blood tests at 3 months and 6 months, i don't have copies of my tests, not sure I would know what I was looking at anyway.
> 
> I never considered any other options for treatment, and Like i explained earlier if you chek you syringe, by pulling out the plunger to check for blood before injecting, no worries about blood vessel injections (Or I'm just blissfuly ignorant, which is okay with me also!).
> 
> ...


Hey Chpinnlr !

I'm not sure if you posted this elsewhere, but in an effort to better understand what you mean by "TRT has been one of the best things I've ever done for my own well being",

could you explain a bit about your life before and then after TRT in terms of Social Anxiety and well-being? 

My problem seems to be that I lack mental energy, I can't seem to keep up in conversations, and therefore can't think of things to say. I can't grow facial hair (I am white so this is rare) and have gynecomastia, not to mention all the psychological symptoms (depression, low self-esteem, slow thought, trouble concentrating, etc) and because of all this, I believe I may have low testosterone. One time I took liquid letro (which is an Aromatase Inhibitor), and in no other way to describe it, I felt ALIVE, it was as if I woke up to what life actually is.

Can you relate to this at all with TRT? 

Would love to hear your experience.

Thanks so much

Nate


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

NateDEEzy said:


> Hey Chpinnlr !
> 
> I'm not sure if you posted this elsewhere, but in an effort to better understand what you mean by "TRT has been one of the best things I've ever done for my own well being",
> 
> ...


Before I started treatment, I would have irrational outbursts of anger followed by massive bouts of depression, I had lost my sex drive completly (at 42 years old that was worrysome to me), I was losing muscle and gaining weight even though I was exercising regularly and dieting, my self esteem was non-existant, I was suffering with bouts of insomnia from my brain just racing at night i would obsess over some small thing and not be able to stop thinking about it, which caused several panic attacks.

My testosterone dropped gradually over a period of a couple of years so the symptoms were slow at first but became overwhelming with time.

Within one week of taking my first injection my anger issues we're completly under control, I've lost the weight I gained and I am rebuilding the muscle that I lost. The insomina has decreased to a managable level and I haven't had a panic attack in over 6 months. My sex drive is back, I'm not a teenager any more but I wasn't ready to give up on sex at 42!

The TRT hasn't completly alleviated my SA, but I feel that it has improved since I started treatment. My self-esteem is higher now that I feel like myself again.

I don't know if I'm answering all of the questions you had, I'm really only qualified to relate my experinces, but I can't imagine going back to where i was a year ago.


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## straightarrows (Jun 18, 2010)

I rmemeber reading about another natural T.R.therapy but $$$$$$$,, I can search it's name if want !


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

@ Chpinnlr

Did you get any sides from TRT like acne or oily skin or hair loss on the head or new hair growth on the body?

And before you started TRT what kinds of tests did you do? Did the doctor find out if you're primary or secondary?

And did you testicles shrink due to TRT or do you also take something additional to keep the own T production up like clomid?


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## Chpinnlr (May 12, 2012)

thundercats said:


> @ Chpinnlr
> 
> Did you get any sides from TRT like acne or oily skin or hair loss on the head or new hair growth on the body?
> 
> ...


I haven't had any of the adverse side-effects, possibly some thicker chest hair but nothing really out of the ordinary.

My doctor did some blood work before I started treatment, but I'm afraid that the more technical stuff is out of my league.

I am not on any other medication at all! I try to avoid most medication, I did change my diet and I started exercising on a regular basis, both of which are supposed to naturaly increase your own T production, but I did that about a year before I started therapy.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I think doing injections myself would really be the best solution. I don't want to take nebido because it stays in the system too long. What if I find out that I don't tolerate TRT then I have this stuff in me. Faster acting testosterone would definitely be better.
But doing own injections is really intimidating. I already watched some videos how to inject yourself but it's still scary. What if I simply cannot push a needle into my leg deep enough out of fear? I really have no clue if I could do this. And even if the doctor shows you how to do it then it's still not the same as doing it yourself. 

I also wonder do you know how much testosterone is in 1 1/2 ml cypionate?

And do you feel a difference after the injection? Do you feel energetic on the first few days and then this fades away later on? For example how do you feel on the last few days before the next injection? Do you already feel crappy again and can't wait for the new injection?


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## VegaBack (Feb 24, 2013)

Chpinnlr said:


> Before I started treatment, I would have irrational outbursts of anger followed by massive bouts of depression, I had lost my sex drive completly (at 42 years old that was worrysome to me), I was losing muscle and gaining weight even though I was exercising regularly and dieting, my self esteem was non-existant, I was suffering with bouts of insomnia from my brain just racing at night i would obsess over some small thing and not be able to stop thinking about it, which caused several panic attacks.
> 
> My testosterone dropped gradually over a period of a couple of years so the symptoms were slow at first but became overwhelming with time.
> 
> ...


Hi man sorry to up the topic but, did this sympton " i would obsess over some small thing and not be able to stop thinking about it, which caused several panic attacks."  go alway with TRT ?


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## sakic19 (May 14, 2013)

I just started TRT on 5/10/13 and after a good review of research on the topic. I'm a 34 year old male, and have always struggled with my metabolism, anxiety, social interaction, and confidence. 

Before I started, I did a lot of research on the matter to ensure that I wasn't getting involved in a fad treatment or snake-oil approach. Found a reputable facility that offered the treatment and fully took my insurance coverage. I didn't bother with my normal doctor as everything with him is get another test, just passing the buck, or telling me what I was feeling was actually wrong. Went for my initial visit on 5/3 to this facility and did the blood draw for testing. Got my results back on 5/6 and everything checked out normal, but the doctor did say my T was low. At first I was skeptical about the results and diagnosis, but did some more research (there is not a ton) and possible side-effects. Since all the symptoms seemed dead on (and I was feeling like total garbage), I figured I had to give it a shot. Note, I am not some one to disregard health and long-term effects, I just felt that this may be the best option for me. 

I've only had one injection so far and my next one is on 5/17/13. The doctor was never pushy about the therapy and did provide me with possible side-effects (all that are listed online) as well indicating that the results were not instantaneous. I am excited about the next upcoming sessions and hoping that it does solve some of the problems I am experiencing. With that, I am watching things for potential, known side-effects. 

I wish I could give more information, but only just starting the program. I will keep the forum updated per my results, but I wouldn't just disregard this therapy based on what is on the Internet or what a primary care physician may negate discussing with you.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

I wish they would make testosterone legal again.


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## plsticsman (Sep 26, 2013)

Chpinnlr said:


> I talked to my doctor about the Peaks and valleys and he moved my injection times closer together for me which has helped. I'm doing the IM shots myself at home, it takes a little prctice at first but there really is nothing to it. The hardest part is preping the shot.
> 
> I guess I was really fortunate to find a Doctor that not only understood what I was dealing with, but had experienced it himself. He has really saved me alot of aggrivation. Like I said earlier he was on anti-depressants for some time before he started HRT.


Well, I'm 50. Started on this rollercoaster at 17. Hypothalamus and Pituitary never wanted to chat with each other. Did pills for 3 years, went through another round of tests, determined it was a lifetime deal. Been doing shots for the majority of that time. (did gel a couple years, but then adopted a daughter and it wasn't worth the chance). Shots at home NOT difficult or a pain in the butt  Just be sure to get the right supplies. Get a large bore, short needle for drawing up. Change it out to a 24 or 25 gauge for injecting. Get an understanding nurse to show you the easiest way to aim at your butt and alternate sides. The biggest difference over the years is I started with one shot a MONTH. WOW, did that give me a great understanding of women's hormone cycles  Figured out on my own to go to 1 every 2 weeks, am now on 1 a week. Doctors PRACTICE medicine, so be careful what an "expert" tells you


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## Jnyc (Sep 21, 2014)

*TRT needed?*

I've recently taken a blood test and my testosterone levels seem pretty low (total 382ng/dL, free 8.3pg/mL), DHEA levels are 505.7ug/dL.

I'm 28 and I've been having issues with sleep for most of my 20's and teens. I've also been experiencing some minimal gynecomastia (for several years) and general exhaustion. I don't come from a hairy family but have noticed, it can take several weeks before I need to shave.

My other blood and urine tests came back within normal ranges and I've been wondering....am I suffering from Low T?


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Jnyc said:


> I've recently taken a blood test and my testosterone levels seem pretty low (total 382ng/dL, free 8.3pg/mL), DHEA levels are 505.7ug/dL.
> 
> I'm 28 and I've been having issues with sleep for most of my 20's and teens. I've also been experiencing some minimal gynecomastia (for several years) and general exhaustion. I don't come from a hairy family but have noticed, it can take several weeks before I need to shave.
> 
> My other blood and urine tests came back within normal ranges and I've been wondering....am I suffering from Low T?


Your DHEA looks optimal. Your free T, on the other hand, looks low to me. My lab's range for free T is 8,9 - 42 for guys in between 20 & 40 years old. I personally happen to have a free T of 6,4 and I'm seeing doctors to try to get it treated.


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## EmmaTravis (Sep 4, 2015)

Yes, there are many different blood tests done in pathology before and during testosterone replacement therapy. Testosterone is a hormone, which is responsible for the normal development and growth of the male sex organs in our body. However, as far as testosterone replacement therapy is concern, yes it has some side effects but is manageable.


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