# CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!



## yeah_yeah_yeah

Hello

I am new to the boards and have been spending some time reading through posts. It is comforting to read that so many people are having the same experiences as me and that they fit under the label of Social Anxiety. Its also great to read of peoples progress.

I would like to try something called Shame Attacking Exercises that CBT recommends. It is when you do something to actually make people disapprove of you, like shouting out the floor numbers in a crowded lift or singing out loud in a department store. It is meant to show you that disapproval is not as cataclysmic as you might think it is and to help with a chronic lack of assertiveness.

I have been trying 'baby steps' with it. Little things like cutting in front of people with my trolley in the supermarket, or being a bit cheeky or rude to people, especially if they are rude to me. In this latter situation I would like to experiment with being downright obnoxious on occasion but I am scared of being shot down or beaten up. This is wrong because others do not see it that way ... Sometimes being rude is pretty good fun ...

I am having trouble (read paralysed) with going as far as calling out the floors in the lift or singing out loud. If anyone has done CBT, this is my thought process:

"If I sing out loud, there may be a guy there who will insult me and everyone will laugh. I will feel destroyed but laugh like an idiot. People will look down on me. Someone might push me or become physically aggressive. There may be a young girl there who is scared by my behaviour and tells a guard or assistant. I may see someone I know and they will think I've lost it. I have no right to impose my voice on other people. They are trying to shop in peace."

This is a pretty radical exercise but seems to be a core idea in CBT (Burns, New Mood Therapy). Can anyone offer me 'positive alternatives' to my thoughts above? Can anyone come up with 'baby steps' disapproval challenges for me that are a little less scary? Then I can build up to the harder ones!

If you see a young, dashingly handsome, but oddly nervous guy singing to himself in a department store near you, go and shake his hand!!

Ross


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## anniebell1

I don't know if these are small enough steps or not, but here are some disapproval challenges I've heard of:

1) giving the wrong change on purpose when paying for something
2) going into a restaurant or store just to use the bathroom

that's all I have, sorry. I'm not sure those will be helpful, but maybe they will be more manageable things to do.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Hi Annie

Those are great - I will give them a go. Funny you should mention the money because I just got on a bus and didn't have enough money - he was really cool about it and let me on. Then I came back and found your post! How freaky







Mind you I did TELL him I didn't have enough - I guess it would be worse if I'd just handed it over ... I will try that.

Have you done shame attacking exercises yourself? I quite like the idea of practising being obnoxious - it seems like fun!









Ross


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## idunnoimnotcreative

Calling out floor numbers and singing out loud are things that people without SA would have a lot trouble doing. I don't think you need to go that far out. I ended up doing the screwing up the change thing by accident today and I wasn't embarrassed or anything, which was surprising. I just apologized and brought out the correct amount, nothing bad happened.

Some other things to consider:

-take a while fiddling around with your change, fishing around through your wallet for pennies or what not.

-wear a sweater or shirt inside-out or backwards and go for an outing in public

-don't comb your hair and go out in public

-wear clothing that is a bit too warm for the weather

-if you're in college, go to class or an exam in your pyjamas

I've done a few of the above, and nothing negative ever ended up happening to me.


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## embers

A few things I've tried, some I haven't but am going to:

Being indecisive when ordering at a restaurant. (Builds up resistance to people being impatient with you).

Tripping in public (in case it ever happens for real i'll know I won't die of shame). 

Calling up business establishments and asking questions about services they don't offer. 

Telling a telemarketer they sound sexy on the phone (this is a good one because telemarketers are rude and it gets them off guard, I actually had a telemarketer hang up on ME, hehe).

I want to do things like skip in public or have a full conversation with my dog in front of other people. Still testing the waters on that one.


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## Demerzel

One I've heard of before is tripping on purpose. I've never done it on purpose, but i've done it by accident. For some reason I don't get SA when that happens, & just think it's funny. I've laughed at myself while other peeps didn't even care in the least. lol


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## PlayerOffGames

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



zengirl said:


> A few things I've tried


^^ ive never heard of this before...did it really help you?


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## Halcyon

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Hi Annie
> 
> Those are great - I will give them a go. Funny you should mention the money because I just got on a bus and didn't have enough money - he was really cool about it and let me on. Then I came back and found your post! How freaky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you I did TELL him I didn't have enough - I guess it would be worse if I'd just handed it over ... I will try that.
> 
> Have you done shame attacking exercises yourself? I quite like the idea of practising being obnoxious - it seems like fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ross


this is pretty cool...first time i've heard of this

I think i am always trying too hard to control or perfect a moment but doing the opposite on purpose to show yourself that its not as bad...interesting

The whole pajamas thing to class, i might do that...actually kind of terrified now that i think of it but i've seen others do it and they look pretty good in pajamas...lets do this!

what other stuff have you guys tried?


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## embers

> zengirl wrote:
> A few things I've tried
> 
> ^^ ive never heard of this before...did it really help you?
> _________________


Yes. I've done a lot of these things in the past by accident and got extremely embarrassed, flustered, flushed, etc. But when i'm acting, there's no shame.

One more thing i've done is drop things in public. I'm thinking of dropping my purse and letting everything fall out of it.

A couple more scary things:

Full cart of groceries, and not enough money. Have the cashier subtract items until you can cover it. I got this idea from Terms of Endearment.

Giving myself a bad hairstyle and asking someone if my hair looks bad.

In all these scenarios, people are extremely patient and understanding.


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## Halcyon

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



zengirl said:


> zengirl wrote:
> A few things I've tried
> 
> ^^ ive never heard of this before...did it really help you?
> _________________
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I've done a lot of these things in the past by accident and got extremely embarrassed, flustered, flushed, etc. But when i'm acting, there's no shame.
> 
> One more thing i've done is drop things in public. I'm thinking of dropping my purse and letting everything fall out of it.
> 
> A couple more scary things:
> 
> Full cart of groceries, and not enough money.
> 
> Giving myself a bad hairstyle and asking someone if my hair looks bad.
> 
> In all these scenarios, people are extremely patient and understanding.
Click to expand...

whats your attitude or what are you feeling while doing all this in public?


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## embers

> whats your attitude or what are you feeling while doing all this in public?


When you asked that the first thing that comes to mind is amused, because it is kind of silly if you think about it. Its like a joke you're the only one in on, and the jokes on everyone else. A couple more things come to mind like, being in control of the situation, and both the humor and the control make me feel more calm.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



zengirl said:


> Giving myself a bad hairstyle and asking someone if my hair looks bad.












Ross


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## Halcyon

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*

^ ermmm how do you guys approach the situations?

like uhmmmm how do you convince yourselves to go out and do this stuff, i guess before you did all this there were some CBT steps to prepare you up to this point so you must be pretty in depth already in it?

Like some of the things you guys are doing are pretty fearful, i'm really impressed tho...gotta like give you some of clap claps

Like if tomorrow i told myself, ok i'm wearing pajamas to class...i would feel pretty silly too but i don't know this linger fear in me being so out of "character"....but i think i'd do it, i'd be more comfortable if someone else did it with me but yeah...


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## realrage

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



Halcyon said:


> ^ ermmm how do you guys approach the situations?


I would say create a list of all the potential situations that you might want to put yourself into. Then put them in a hierarchy from the lowest amount of anxiety to the highest. Take the one at the bottom and begin there, taking it slow and being aware of your anxiety levels. Exposing yourself to the point where you feel comfortable and then moving on.

One example I've done is asking a clerk where an item is located in a supermaket. After a while of doing that my the anxiety level had dropped. I moved up to asking them where the item is and then returning to ask them again, and eventually getting them to show me exactly where the item is. Playing that I just couldn't find it. That was a little easier place to start for me.


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## Pirateshaveparrots.

-Fart in public, the louder the better

-Blast Rap music through your car system with all the windows rolled down

-Follow somebody through a store but pretend you are a ninja. Whenever they notice you try to hide.

-As you are walking past somebody sorta toss/throw a quarter at them. I mean hey, they should be greatful, right?

-Dress up in a dinosaur costum and try to convince passer byers that dinosaurs didn't go extinct.

-Wear a shirt saying "I have EXTREME sa!" with a picture of some overthetop action scene printed on the shirt.

-Give a random person a hug

-Start dancing as you walk through a store

-Start laughing while waiting in a line 

-Sing while you are waiting in a line

-Tell a random stranger that is in line by you that you didn't take a shower today.

-Ask a random girl/guy passing by if they would want to do something later

-Make crank calls to somebody but when they say you have the wrong number insist that you do indeed have the right number.

-Ask a random girl/guy if they are ticklish (I love tickling  )

-When you are in a store start running frantically while looking behind you as if something were chasing you.

-Go to a store and challenge a random person to a race and before they can say anything take off running while screaming "I'm gonna win! I'm gonna win!"

-Make funny faces to people who are stopped beside you in traffic

-Pretend to faint then before someone calls 911 get up and say "Boy, I'm really tired"

-Walk around with a sign saying "If you can make me smile I'll give you $20"

Try some of those on for size!


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Thanks Pirate

Though I sense you may not be taking this ENTIRELY seriously .... :yes 

Ross


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



Halcyon said:


> ^ how do you convince yourselves to go out and do this stuff, i guess before you did all this there were some CBT steps to prepare you up to this point so you must be pretty in depth already in it?


Hi Halcyon (cool pic by the way)

I have done a fair bit of CBT yes, but I don't think you need to have done it to do the exercises. They work on the same principle of phobia cures - that something gets bigger and more scary in your mind the more you worry about it and AVOID it. You can convince yourself to go and do it by knowing that it will take a big chunk out of your SA! There's a big reward ...

If you go out and give it a go, the more your brain sees that its not as mortally dangerous as it thinks. Its very psychological. But yes, realrage's idea of ranking it in order of scaryness is a good thing to do - gradual exposure to fear helps you to build up to the really challenging stuff (imagine jumping off a diving board - you would want to start with the 1 metre before you work up to the 3, the 5, the 10...). This is true of any social anxiety exercise. CBT is big on making you 'do' stuff, its central to the idea - YOU are part of the cure. If you haven't done so, I would strongly recommend if you can't see a therapist that you get hold of a good CBT book. "Feeling Good - the New Mood Therapy" - by David Burns is considered the bible of CBT.

The brain learns by this gradual exposure (exactly the same way you learnt your anxiety) - though it can be tough to just go out and do it, thats why its a good idea to start with the small ones. SO no, you don't need any preparation!

The key is 'not thinking about it'. Have the exercise at the back of your mind, but before you do it think about something else. Chocolate waffles for example. If you are doing the 'wrong change' exercise, stand in the queue and think about the chocolate bars on the rack or that movie you saw earlier. When you get to the counter, just do it and remember that the person is just a check out clerk - not the president, or the queen of england. I make myself smile at people (especially pretty girls) on the street and I can't do it if I think about it directly - I just reflexively do it when I see someone I like the look of. They either smile back or just carry on walking - no hostile reactions at all!

Another tough thing to come to terms with for me is that YOU ARE ACTIVELY TRYING TO BE DISAPPROVED OF. Its no good secretly hoping people will think you are hilarious (though this may happen) - for Shame Attacking to work, you have to accept you may be disapproved of. This is whats scaring me - but I think I'll feel great after I've done it because I'm IN CONTROL of the situation.

Ross


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## Pirateshaveparrots.

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Thanks Pirate
> 
> Though I sense you may not be taking this ENTIRELY seriously .... :yes
> 
> Ross


Just trying to bring you alittle humor :lol


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## falling snow

They really made me giggle, pirates!
-Follow somebody through a store but pretend you are a ninja. Whenever they notice you try to hide. :lol I've got to try that!

And I loved Zengirl's:
Telling a telemarketer they sound sexy on the phone (this is a good one because telemarketers are rude and it gets them off guard, I actually had a telemarketer hang up on ME, hehe). 

Welcome, Ross. Good to have someone from my part of the world here... Good luck with the CBT.


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## idunnoimnotcreative

This is a great thread btw. There's plenty of great advice being handed out. I think we need more threads like this


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## will666

I dont know how you guys manage to do that, thatd be so embarrasing even for someone without sa, i think thatd make people think you are different, that you got some kind of problem cause some of the things you guys mentioned are so random and unusual, i try to do exactly the opposite, just trying to be like the rest behave like Im like everyone else , that theres nothing wrong with me.
Good luck with these exercises though, for those of your daring enough


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## nelliefar

ha ha, All of this reminds me of an episode of the Tom Green show. 
I like the one where he puts on camis and hides under the park bench with a megaphone saying, "I'm wearing camouflage! You can't see me!"

Maybe you could attend a nudist camp?


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

haha yeah I guess so. Who would have thought that you could overcome Social Anxiety and have fun at the same time? :banana 

My dream in life is to become Johnny Knoxville's stuntman.

Ross


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## lostwitness

50 Things To Do At Wal-Mart

1. Take shopping carts for the express purpose of filling them and stranding them at strategic locations.
2. Ride those little electronic cars at the front of the store.
3. Set all the alarm clocks to go off at ten minute intervals throughout the day.
4. Start playing Calvinball; see how many people you can get to join in.
5. Contaminate the entire auto department by sampling all the spray air fresheners.
6. Challenge other customers to duels with tubes of gift wrap.
7. Leave cryptic messages on the typewriters.
8. Re-dress the mannequins as you see fit.
9. When there are people behind you, walk really slow, especially thin narrow aisles.
10. Walk up to an employee and tell him in an official tone, “I think we’ve got a Code 3 in Housewares,” and see what happens.
11. Tune all the radios to a polka station; then turn them all off and turn the volumes to “10”.
12. Play with the automatic doors.
13. Walk up to complete strangers and say, “Hi! I haven’t seen you in so long!...” etc. See if they play along to avoid embarrassment.
14. While walking through the clothing department, ask yourself loud enough for all to hear, “Who buys this crap, anyway?”
15. Repeat Number 14 in the jewelry department.
16. Ride a display bicycle through the store; claim you’re taking it for a “test drive.”
17. Follow people through the aisles, always staying about five feet away. Continue to do this until they leave the department.
18. Play soccer with a group of friends, using the entire store as your playing field.
19. As the cashier runs your purchases over the scanner, look mesmerized and say, “Wow. Magic!”
20. Put M&M’s on layaway.
21. Move “Caution: Wet Floor” signs to carpeted areas.
22. Set up a tent in the camping department; tell others you’ll only invite them in if they bring pillows from Bed and Bath.
23. Test the fishing rods and see what you can “catch” from the other aisles.
24. Ask other customers if they have any Grey Poupon.
25. Drape a blanket around your shoulders and run around saying, “...I’m Batman. Come, Robin—to the Batcave!”
26. TP as much of the store as possible.
27. Randomly throw things over into neighboring aisles.
28. Play with the calculators so that they all spell “hello” upside down.
29. When someone asks if you need help, begin to cry and ask, “Why won’t you people just leave me alone?”
30. When two or three people are walking ahead of you, run between them, yelling, “Red Rover!”
31. Make up nonsense products and ask newly hired employees if there are any in stock, i.e., “Do you have any Shnerples here?”
32. Take up an entire aisle in Toys by setting up a full scale battlefield with G.I. Joes vs. the X-Men.
33. Take bets on the battle described above.
34. Nonchalantly “test” the brushes and combs in Cosmetics.
35. While handling guns in the hunting department, suddenly ask the clerk if he knows where the anti-depressants are. Act as spastic as possible.
36. Hold indoor shopping cart races.
37. Dart around suspiciously while humming the theme from Mission: Impossible.
38. Attempt to fit into very large gym bags.
39. Attempt to fit others into very large gym bags.
40. Say things like, “Would you be so kind as to direct me to your Twinkies?”
41. Set up a “Valet Parking” sign in front of the store.
42. Two words: “Marco Polo.”
43. Leave Cheerios in Lawn and Garden, pillows in the pet food aisle, etc.
44. “Re-alphabetize” the CD’s in Electronics.
45. In the auto department, practice your “Madonna” look with various funnels.
46. When someone steps away from their cart to look at something, quickly make off with it without saying a word.
47. Relax in the patio furniture until you get kicked out.
48. When an announcement comes over the loudspeaker, assume the fetal position and scream, “No, no! It’s those voices again!”
49. Pay off layaways fifty cents at a time.
50. Drag a lounge chair on display over to the magazines and relax. If the store has a food court, buy a soft drink; explain that you don’t get out much, and ask if they can put a little umbrella in it.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



falling snow said:


> Welcome, Ross. Good to have someone from my part of the world here... Good luck with the CBT.


Ta, fingers crossed.

Are you a jock (UK term for a 'person from Scotland', in case you US guys think I'm talking about a bully from the football team) then?

Ross


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

How rubbish am I? Last posted on this topic 5 months ago and I still havent done any of the exercises ... Ardrum, if you're reading, wanna set up the SAS Shame Attacking Challenge? (SASSAC .. natch)

I'm going to start with the wrong change thing. I will give the wrong amount twice. But not if its a cute girl, thats too hard. I will start with a middle aged woman, they are least scary - bless them. This will be level 1 of 20 :afr 

Ross


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## ardrum

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> How rubbish am I? Last posted on this topic 5 months ago and I still havent done any of the exercises ... Ardrum, if you're reading, wanna set up the SAS Shame Attacking Challenge? (SASSAC .. natch)
> 
> I'm going to start with the wrong change thing. I will give the wrong amount twice. But not if its a cute girl, thats too hard. I will start with a middle aged woman, they are least scary - bless them. This will be level 1 of 20 :afr
> 
> Ross


I'd be willing to try a low-level version of the challenge. :lol

Whistling down a street could be something that would annoy people or make them think you're strange. I might be able to do that one. Loud yawns might cause the same reaction.

EDIT: I've got an idea to make a thread for people to post their attempts. There could be a grammatical difference, such as underlining, when someone is posting their challenge (rather than someone just commenting on other people's challenges). Hmm...I'll think about creating such a thread (or be my guest if I am taking too long).


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Ok then.

Level 1 is yawning or whilstling loudly whilst walking past someone. Of course you will need to see their face as you do it - otherwise you won't see the disapproval!

Level 2 is giving the wrong change twice (unless thats too big a step?).

Hehe this could be fun.

Ross


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## ardrum

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Ok then.
> 
> Level 1 is yawning or whilstling loudly whilst walking past someone. Of course you will need to see their face as you do it - otherwise you won't see the disapproval!
> 
> Level 2 is giving the wrong change twice (unless thats too big a step?).
> 
> Hehe this could be fun.
> 
> Ross


Hehehe, the levels might be different, depending on each situation. Annoying hot ladies would probably be more challenging, for instance.

It might be fun to come up with 10 tasks, and people can check them off as they accomplish them. We need some sort of prize if you do them all.


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## SADFighter

Count me in on this too. I've been wanting to do something like this for a while but never got down to it.

Other suggestions:

1. Ask for directions to a place you already know how to get to. 

2. Coughing/clearing your throat frequently in class or in a supermarket.

3. Prank calls.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Ya know I think this is why people like Johnny Knoxville are so relaxed. Theyve done so much dumb stuff that they are totally immune to peoples opinion of them!

I think to complete the challenge we will need some dwarves somewhere.

Right I'm going for a walk this evening to find a yawning target.

Ross


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## ardrum

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Ya know I think this is why people like Johnny Knoxville are so relaxed. Theyve done so much dumb stuff that they are totally immune to peoples opinion of them!
> 
> I think to complete the challenge we will need some dwarves somewhere.
> 
> Right I'm going for a walk this evening to find a yawning target.
> 
> Ross


LOL!

We need a Social Anxiety version of Jack-***. Instead of dwarves and fighting, we'll yawn and ask for the time. :lol :lol

EDIT: Good example of the humor in social anxiety!


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## ardrum

Challenge begins here! http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/for ... tml#732045


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Cool! I couldnt do a handshake one, but the yawning is ok! I will try it tonight when walking to my class.

EDIT TO ADD: I did it! Updated on the goals page 

Next I want to go up to someone wearing a t-shirt and 25 wristwatches and ask for the time.

Ross


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## jaayhou

Great ideas. I've never heard of shame attacking, but I'm intrigued. A great exercise for me comes to mind...I'm going to "check out" one of the rich girls at the upscale shopping center across the street without looking away before I'm noticed. I've perfected the art of looking away just before I'm caught, but all that's going to stop now. :evil 

And I dunno if this has been mentioned yet...use the express checkout with like 30 items and don't leave until you're told to by store staff. Yikes, I doubt I could ever do that myself.

Thanks guys.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Yup its all good! I've heard it referred to as Increasing The Bandwidth, though this has more to do with things like making complaints, disagreeing with someone, cutting someone off in conversation etc. Peeps with SA tend to have a very rigid range of behaviour they feel is acceptable, and this tends to make us unassertive and meek. Pushing the boundaries and increasing the bandwidth of what really is acceptable will help to make us realise that we are unnecassarily holding ourselves back - or at least thats the idea!

Incidentally, Shame Attacking was invented by the late great Albert Ellis as part of REBT (rational emotive behavioural therapy), the forerunner to CBT. Some of his suggestions were to announce product prices in the supermarket, wear an obviously awfully co-ordinated piece of clothing out in town, or to tell the waiter he is wearing a lovely dress. I wouldnt do the third one until there was no more food to be spat in ....

I think it will get tougher as we get to exercises where we definitely will get disapproval, but my hope is that by doing the little ones first I can build up to it! If I just giggle afterwards like with the singing then that will be so good!

Ross


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## User

I've recently done a few of these things unintentionally. At a local convenience store, I kept giving the wrong change over and over again (I swear it was the heat). The guy wasn't disapproving, though.

Another time, I was standing in line at a clothing store to buy a shirt I placed on hold, and, when I reached the head of the line, a woman behind me asked if she could get in front of me. Her reason was something along the lines of, "You're probably going to buy something while I'm just going to pick something up". I flat out told her, "Do you see anything in my hands?" in a semi-confrontational tone. It's difficult to tell how confrontational I sounded because I have limited "bandwidth" (as Ross put it), but it felt really good to tell her off. She started looking pissed (I guess she thought she was just going to cut in front of me, no questions asked), but I was called to the counter before anything else could be said.

I really like the concept of "shame attacking". I think I've been too nice, and I've let people walk all over me in the past. I almost feel like I need to unleash the a--hole within :lol . Or at least be more assertive (which is what I'm working on right now).


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## katelyn

I really want to try some shame-attacking exercises. The thing is that because I look about 12, when I do a lot of these things people either just think it's normal, smile at me indulgently or mutter something about kids nowadays being so rude. Because of this, I am actually not afraid to do many of the suggestions made. I think I would only be afraid of doing it around people who know my real age, and I don't have an opportunity for that until September.

So if anyone has any suggestions that are suitable in my case, please do tell me.


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## ardrum

katelyn said:


> I really want to try some shame-attacking exercises. The thing is that because I look about 12, when I do a lot of these things people either just think it's normal, smile at me indulgently or mutter something about kids nowadays being so rude. Because of this, I am actually not afraid to do many of the suggestions made. I think I would only be afraid of doing it around people who know my real age, and I don't have an opportunity for that until September.
> 
> So if anyone has any suggestions that are suitable in my case, please do tell me.


The more participants in the challenge (linked several posts above), the better. It would be so cool to have a lot of people posting their challenges, predictions, and results.

I also can pass for a very young age (especially clean-shaven), but I still find most of the suggested challenges to be, well, challenging.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah

Remember that the aim of the challenge is to actually get disapproval too! The aim is to learn to tolerate it and learn that it doesnt ruin your life. So start small and begin to shore up those defences!!

1) Choose an exercise
2) Predict what will happen and how you will feel when it does so that you can compare reality with expectation.
3) Do it
4) Go back and compare prediction to reality.

Happy disapprovals!!

Ross

PS @ USER: Unleash the inner bast*rd!!


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## Kitten

This is definitely a great idea. We'd get noticed and hopefully become less sensitive to people's criticism/disapproval. Really, who cares what they think? We're all so worried about people perceiving us negatively that we meekly sit back and act too nice for our own good. I for one, and probably 99% of us here hate to make waves, so we don't, and people pretty much ignore us.

Now putting it into practice is a whole 'nother story. I would LOVE to really, truly not care what others think of me, but it's behavior that's seared into my subconscious. I sometimes do things like making myself sing along out loud with the Muzak in the supermarket, for instance, but I always chicken out when someone walks by. I'm never going to see that person again so why should I care? It's a relatively easy "disapproval" trick. But there's a mental block that I can't seem to get around and my inner [email protected] turns into a major wuss. :stu Aarugh!!!


----------



## ardrum

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



Kitten said:


> This is definitely a great idea. We'd get noticed and hopefully become less sensitive to people's criticism/disapproval. Really, who cares what they think? We're all so worried about people perceiving us negatively that we meekly sit back and act too nice for our own good. I for one, and probably 99% of us here hate to make waves, so we don't, and people pretty much ignore us.
> 
> Now putting it into practice is a whole 'nother story. I would LOVE to really, truly not care what others think of me, but it's behavior that's seared into my subconscious. I sometimes do things like making myself sing along out loud with the Muzak in the supermarket, for instance, but I always chicken out when someone walks by. I'm never going to see that person again so why should I care? It's a relatively easy "disapproval" trick. But there's a mental block that I can't seem to get around and my inner [email protected] turns into a major wuss. :stu Aarugh!!!


Yeah, I was having some difficulty carrying out some of these exercises. I think we just have to scale down until we CAN do something that still makes us initially uncomfortable.

I will need to start with any kinds of actions that will draw attention to myself. Look at me! Look at me! Hahaha, this is something I would NEVER normally do. I don't wear flashy clothes or act in any way that would make someone hesitate while glancing at me. I try to blend in to the point where I can't even be seen. It's so unbelievably DUMB, and I have a raging passion to fight this until it's gone. It's the planning that can be a little time-consuming. Once I have a clear target, and a clear exercise to address it, I'm going to go apesh*t on it! LOL!


----------



## myshell

I wouldn't be able to do it. To intentionally use some random person for the sake of some exercise. What if they were socially anxious? Sensitive? And picked up on being toyed with? Bummer  I'll keep my shaming to myself lol


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

I think its a shame you are writing off something that could be helpful to you, but I understand your choice not to do it.

Ross


----------



## myshell

I do know about the rewards of exposure to embarrassing situations and have found it unnecessary to interfere with other peoples lives, sensitivities or safety. I just wanted to express that point of view.


----------



## RubyTuesday

I've heard of something similar... 

-when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous

I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.
This is even comparable to Mindfulness where we observe and acknowledge our thoughts and emotions in an impartial and unattached manner. -The theory being that if we can let our thoughts and feelings come and go as they want, they mellow out of their own accord, like letting a pond settle. And this is completely different to reacting to feelings/thoughts that are uncomfortable, like nerves for example.

One thing I did recently -which received mixed results!!!!- was to announce to my fellow Contiki tour room mates that I had a case of diarrhoea from the plane flight over!!! 
Because my roommates were down-to-earth Aussies, they didn't think so much of it -and, hell, I was doing them a favor giving them a warning!
I told a couple of American girls and at the word "diarrhoea" they shrunk back in horror -"oh, how could she say such a thing!"
But, come on now - '@#it happens!' 

I guess the problem with this variation of 'shame attacking' is that most people would consider it odd for a person to be nervous in everyday social situations ....which is quite odd from my perspective, because I tend to be anxious in ordinary situations and function at peak performance in crises when everyone else is losing their cool.
....perhaps I should consider work in an emergency ward.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

The idea of shame attacking is to shame yourself and gain the disapproval of others - to put yourself in a 'looked down upon' position so that you can get a better perspective on what it really means. Its a bit different to normal exposure where the idea is to show that the situation is not as dangerous as you think e.g. people will not humiliate you and go away talking about you, leading to your ultimate rejection by the the whole of humanity. This is good because people can then see that they neednt limit their positive social behaviour so much. This helps to get us socialising and expressing more, but goes only so far and you may still lack assertiveness because even though youe range of acceptable behaviours has got bigger, you may still have a genuine fear of conflict or disapproval.

So in shame attacking, you actually try to approach the danger zone - to get disapproved of to see that even SOME disapproval doesnt lead to complete ostracism and that you can live through being rejected. So making a fool of yourself by e.g. singing in a shop and having people give you disapproving looks. Its a very powerful (if you can make yourself do it) way of shifting a fear-based chronic lack of assertiveness.

Shame-attacking IS hard to do and wouldnt normally be used as a first-line exercise for someone with severe social anxiety. In those that do use it, the success rate is about 50-60% - its a little bit kill-or-cure, but I am sick of my own personal fear of conflict and fear of disapproval and so I am willing to try it.

Ross


----------



## stadiumrockdwarf

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



myshell said:


> I do know about the rewards of exposure to embarrassing situations and have found it unnecessary to interfere with other peoples lives, sensitivities or safety. I just wanted to express that point of view.


I think its a ridiculous view. How is yawning near someone or running past them in tight shorts "affecting their safety, sensitivities or lives"? I'm not saying *you *are dumb - its just a dumb thing to say. Its just a badly informed opinion based on your fear of people noticing you. 7% of the US population have social anxiety, you have less than a 1 in 10 chance of doing it near them. If you did, what are they gonna do? Imagine the post they might write if they were at SAS: "Subject: GUY SINGS A SONG IN A SHOP NEAR ME!!! WTF???? This guy sang near me! Its so awful - I hate these extroverts who want to oppress me and make me feel bad!!! he sang Bon Jovi, its like he thinks I am a nerd and like sad rock bands!! :sigh Replies: Did you think that maybe the guy was a nut-job and just a little ill-mannered? Thats probably what everyone else thought too. You are jumping to conclusions there dude". If you spend your life in fear that you might spark someones total irrationality then you will never leave the house - which is exactly what many guys with SA do. The point of the exercise is to get over that. No one will die or go into an anxious nervous state of shock because you yawned as you walked past them. I think you are just scared of expressing yourself - which is cool, you have SA, it makes us scared of looking a fool or angering people. But thats kind of the thing this exercise seems to be trying to crack. You arent jeapordising someones safety by wearing tight running shorts dude - you're just humiliating yourSELF.

---dwarfy----


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## ardrum

Amen! My tight running shorts might go at it again tonight too. :lol


----------



## daaaaave

Someone actually called me once insisting it wasn't the wrong number when in fact it was. I couldn't just hang up on them so I think we talked for a few minutes lol. It could have been CBT, but I think it was just some drunk girls.

Post #500, tied A-Rod :lol


----------



## SADFighter

I did some pretty "shameful" things this weekend. I was taking a long subway ride after a long wait in a boiling hot station and so I took a seat and started reading. An old couple entered a few stops later, and the wife sat down next to me. The only other empty seat was across from me and I figured he could sit there if he wanted so didn't budge. Plus, I was hot and tired. Anyway, a stop later a woman gave up her seat for this guy and he said something like "I'm not that old but thanks." Normally I would be bothered by a comment like that, it didn't bother me at all.

Later, I did give up my seat for another old man, but a little boy jumped into my seat before the man could sit down! The mother didn't even say a word. So later, when a seat opened up next to the boy, even though the mom was standing w/a stroller, I sat down again before the mother could! LOL. 

Now before anyone gets up in arms, I was raised well. I would normally give up my seat for a senior citizen. However, I always imagined that if I didn't, not only would I get an embarrassing lecture from the old person but also others around me. In reality, it really was no big deal. I don't think this particular guy cared either way. And as for the mother, while my SA prevented me from doing things like that in the past, I won't let it anymore. We tend to be pushovers who do things out of fear of conflict or guilt. In truth, we don't really owe anyone anything unless they deserve it. In this case, if that woman wasn't going to discipline her kid, why should she get a seat?


----------



## tomcoldaba

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



RubyTuesday said:


> I've heard of something similar...
> 
> -when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous
> 
> I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.


I had an interview today and just as I got anxious and I started to sweat, I told the interviewer that the job was already making me nervous. She laughed and my anxiety disappeared. For the rest of the interview, I was relaxed. I did not have a negative thought for the rest of the interview.

Thank you Ruby Tuesday!


----------



## ardrum

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



tomcoldaba said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of something similar...
> 
> -when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous
> 
> I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.
> 
> 
> 
> I had an interview today and just as I got anxious and I started to sweat, I told the interviewer that the job was already making me nervous. She laughed and my anxiety disappeared. For the rest of the interview, I was relaxed. I did not have a negative thought for the rest of the interview.
> 
> Thank you Ruby Tuesday!
Click to expand...

That's awesome that you tried out the strategy and it worked! Congrats!


----------



## tomcoldaba

I have decided to attend a Toastmaster Meeting tonight. Just the thought of going to a meeting where I don't know anyone is making me anxious. 

I am reading David Burns book Panic Attack where in he advocates the Smile and Hello and the Self Disclosure (saying you are nervous). I will try both of them tonight.

As I am writing this post, I can feel the anxiety surge through me. Hope I have the courage to go through with it.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

Thats awesome Tom, you will really enjoy it - toasmasters is cool, amd your disclosure will really help!

You make me wanna go back to toastmasters myself 

Ross


----------



## X33

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



tomcoldaba said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of something similar...
> 
> -when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous
> 
> I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.
> 
> 
> 
> I had an interview today and just as I got anxious and I started to sweat, I told the interviewer that the job was already making me nervous. She laughed and my anxiety disappeared. For the rest of the interview, I was relaxed. I did not have a negative thought for the rest of the interview.
> 
> Thank you Ruby Tuesday!
Click to expand...

That's quite a witty thing to say but I imagine in certain situations (where you are being evaluated) it is best not to openly reveal your insecurities/weaknesses. This pressure to hide your anxiety only adds to the anxiety though. :/

It's ok and probably helpful to say you are nervous in informal situations.


----------



## tomcoldaba

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



ag said:


> tomcoldaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of something similar...
> 
> -when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous
> 
> I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.
> 
> 
> 
> I had an interview today and just as I got anxious and I started to sweat, I told the interviewer that the job was already making me nervous. She laughed and my anxiety disappeared. For the rest of the interview, I was relaxed. I did not have a negative thought for the rest of the interview.
> 
> Thank you Ruby Tuesday!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's quite a witty thing to say but I imagine in certain situations (where you are being evaluated) it is best not to openly reveal your insecurities/weaknesses. This pressure to hide your anxiety only adds to the anxiety though. :/
> 
> It's ok and probably helpful to say you are nervous in informal situations.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that in certain situations it is best not to openly reveal your insecurities/weaknesses. In certain professions, admission of your insecurities/weakness will be a career limiting move.

However, if you are sweating or shaking, the interviewer (in my case) can see the visible signs of nervousness. So I admitting the obvious.

If I was not sweating or blushing or shaking I would not admit to being nervous. In fact, there is no need for such an admission. You are right that this pressure to hide your anxiety only adds to the anxiety though. Even then I would not admit to being nervous.

For years, I refused to admit publicly I was nervous. To avoid embarrassment from the sweating and shaking, I would avoid or decline social or business situations. My career stalled because I was trying to avoid the embarrassment and I did not seek professional help to remedy this condition.


----------



## CarlM

There was a tv-show a couple of years ago where I live by these two guys who would dare eachother to do crazy stuff, much like shame-attack exercises put in extreme form.

I remember one of the guys went into a crowded city library where 2-300 people were sitting quietly and studying, he stood in the middle and held a boombox cassette player up and started blasting music at top volume until they pulled him out. It was hilarious to watch.


----------



## tomcoldaba

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



tomcoldaba said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of something similar...
> 
> -when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous
> 
> I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.
> 
> 
> 
> I had an interview today and just as I got anxious and I started to sweat, I told the interviewer that the job was already making me nervous. She laughed and my anxiety disappeared. For the rest of the interview, I was relaxed. I did not have a negative thought for the rest of the interview.
> 
> Thank you Ruby Tuesday!
Click to expand...

I got hired! The Self Disclosure principle is from Burns book Panic attack works.


----------



## ardrum

*Re: re: CBT Shame Attacking Exercises - Terrifying!!*



tomcoldaba said:


> tomcoldaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of something similar...
> 
> -when you feel nervous, announce to others that you feel nervous
> 
> I think what this does is lower the shame of feeling nervous and there is no longer that compulsion to hide or control it and instead the nerves mellow out.
> 
> 
> 
> I had an interview today and just as I got anxious and I started to sweat, I told the interviewer that the job was already making me nervous. She laughed and my anxiety disappeared. For the rest of the interview, I was relaxed. I did not have a negative thought for the rest of the interview.
> 
> Thank you Ruby Tuesday!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I got hired! The Self Disclosure principle is from Burns book Panic attack works.
Click to expand...

Congrats!!!


----------



## greyden

parrotslikepirates.

those were hilarious ideas. thanks for the laugh. uh, i just noticed you posted this months ago. oh well. its still funny.


----------



## Lunachik

Um, I was wondering, are the shame attacking exercises an essential part of CBT? I've been thinking about going for CBT for a while but I'm terrified of it. Would going mean I have do these things?


----------



## ardrum

Lunachik said:


> Um, I was wondering, are the shame attacking exercises an essential part of CBT? I've been thinking about going for CBT for a while but I'm terrified of it. Would going mean I have do these things?


You wouldn't _have_ to do it, no. This is the "hardcore" stuff, and it's definitely not something I'd expect anyone to be doing right off the bat. In CBT, you're only required to take small steps that are mildly uncomfortable during the exposure part. In other words, you build up to the most difficult steps, but by the time you get there, they aren't as hard as they looked when you were far away from that point.


----------



## Lunachik

ardrum said:


> Lunachik said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, I was wondering, are the shame attacking exercises an essential part of CBT? I've been thinking about going for CBT for a while but I'm terrified of it. Would going mean I have do these things?
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't _have_ to do it, no. This is the "hardcore" stuff, and it's definitely not something I'd expect anyone to be doing right off the bat. In CBT, you're only required to take small steps that are mildly uncomfortable during the exposure part. In other words, you build up to the most difficult steps, but by the time you get there, they aren't as hard as they looked when you were far away from that point.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that a relief. I was really freaked out there for a while. :hide


----------



## ardrum

Yeah, I mean, exposure is going to be uncomfortable still, but you don't have to race to the most challenging stuff right away.


----------



## therapist

Hey guys, 

First post here. 

I found this thread as anxiety and shame attacking is something that I am really interesting in. I have wanted for a while to try Shame Attacking Exercises, but even as a therapist, I would find it hard. 

Well-done to all you guys that have had a go and good luck to all the guys that are wanting to give it a go. 

I have set myself a goal of taking my teddy bear for a walk on a leash by the end of the week.


----------



## ardrum

therapist said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> First post here.
> 
> I found this thread as anxiety and shame attacking is something that I am really interesting in. I have wanted for a while to try Shame Attacking Exercises, but even as a therapist, I would find it hard.
> 
> Well-done to all you guys that have had a go and good luck to all the guys that are wanting to give it a go.
> 
> I have set myself a goal of taking my teddy bear for a walk on a leash by the end of the week.


Let us know how it goes! I still get a rush at the thought of yawning loudly in a crowd, haha.


----------



## therapist

I think that this will be beneficial for my clients as well as myself (you can always do with some extra confidence). I have the leash now, so I guess that it is just a matter of time. I figured that I may just try standing in the street first with it sat at my side, but then I thought na, I am just putting it off. I think I will choose Saturday as that is the most busy time in the town. 

I was wanting to discuss this on the another forum for therapists at HypnotherapistFinder, but I got a skype message from a colleague saying that it is a waste of time. Well, I can understand his opinion, however I can not accept it as I really can see the benefit of these exercises.


----------



## ardrum

There is another thread here regarding some of our shame-challenging exercises. They don't come close to the teddy bear on a leash, but they show a little of what we experimented with.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/for ... +challenge


----------



## Tallman

I know this is an old thread, but on the chance someone reads it who is considering CBT this could well scare them away. The exercises talked about here should be toward the end of a course of CBT after one has learned the coping techniques that help them through such incidents. One learns the "cognitive" part of CBT first, that is the "knowing" part. Then one puts those techniques into action with the "behavorial" part of CBT. As has been said earlier one sets this up on a degree of difficulty scale and starts at the bottom. Different things bother different people so we would all have a different scale with different items. One starts at the bottom and works upward at their own pace. Some of the items suggested were physically aggressive towards other people. Being rude or threatning to others is not a safe or appropriate theraputic action. In my opinion it is not an appropriate action in any event. CBT is difficult in that it takes a lot of work and perserverence. It should never be a threat to another person. Any action also should never be forced on the person practicing CBT. They should understand why they are doing things and do those things that they have learned the coping skills to do and they are ready to do them.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

Spot on, tallman  Couldnt have said it better myself


----------



## ardrum

It's too cold for me to socialize and do CBT exercises. I'm in hibernation until Spring.


----------



## tomcoldaba

ardrum said:


> It's too cold for me to socialize and do CBT exercises. I'm in hibernation until Spring.


One way to overcome SA is to move to the North Pole. Hibernate for six months or more. It beats meds and CBT. You will need mindfulness there. :lol


----------



## ardrum

Haha... Well, I'm afraid my job is like forced exposure therapy. I'm about to meet up with two nasty attorneys (not from my firm) for about 45 minutes! SCARRRRRY! 

I'm predicting that they will ask me to do things I can't do, make fun of me, etc. :lol


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

Do the ketchup trick and pretend like nothing is wrong


----------



## ardrum

Out in public?


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

With the attorneys


----------



## ardrum

HAHAHA!! That would go over quite well.


----------



## Marylandgreeneyes

This sounds like...making everyone around you uncomfortable in order to be comfortable. Are you supposed to look at their reactions and learn how people without SA react to someone being a dick? Maybe making your own J,ack,A,ss video would cure some SA. GET EM!


----------



## AndyLT

Marylandgreeneyes said:


> This sounds like...making everyone around you uncomfortable in order to be comfortable. Are you supposed to look at their reactions and learn how people without SA react to someone being a dick? Maybe making your own J,ack,A,ss video would cure some SA. GET EM!


It's about realizing that YOU have a right to choose how to act. Other people response shouldn't limit YOU.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

The acts you do should bring shame on yourself but not be disturbing to others. Imagine you are walking down a street and a lady walks past and farts. She would be embarrassed and you might go "OH MY GOD HOW DISGUSTING" - but you aren't mentally disturbed by it. Thats the level you are going for - you want people to look at you and think "what a nut job" as opposed to "is s/he going to stab me?"

Shame attacking is an EXTREME technique recommended for later in a guided, supportive therapeutic environment. ITS A BIT OF A KILL OR CURE, NICHE APPROACH FROM CBT/REBT, SO GO EASY!


----------



## ardrum

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> A BIT OF A KILL OR CURE, NICHE APPROACH FROM CBT/REBT, *SO GO EASY!*


Ugh, so should I get out of this chicken suit? It took me an hour to get ready.


----------



## yeah_yeah_yeah

rofl :lol


----------



## StimulateYourBrain

what attitude are you suppose to have if somebody is being rude to you or insults you?


----------



## craig1212

^^ your supposed to accept people will disapprove of you, but even if they dont like you or your actions you'll be okay and the world wont end. the point is to do something you find shameful like singing out loud in public and watch the disapproving looks on others faces, and suddenly you'll realize the world wont end if you make mistakes in social situations..


----------



## borbiusle

I'm afraid to try out alot of this stuff (minus the singing in public thing) because I'm black and look young (I'm 25 though), and I'll catch alot more heat than the average bear know what I'm sayin


----------



## ForgetMeForever

craig1212 said:


> ^^ your supposed to accept people will disapprove of you, but even if they dont like you or your actions you'll be okay and the world wont end. the point is to do something you find shameful like singing out loud in public and watch the disapproving looks on others faces, and suddenly you'll realize the world wont end if you make mistakes in social situations..


I wouldn't have been able to do anything like that a year ago. Now I find I can separate myself from others disapproval much easier.

Got a human directional sign job recently. The first day I was on a busy corner in the middle of nowhere. I was pushing myself since I'm feeling good right now and waved and said "hey dude, how's it going?" to a hard core bicyclist stopped at the light next to me. He looked me over with the meanest look on his face, sneared and turned back to look at the red light with a smug look on his face.

I just thought, "wow, it must suck to be so nasty" and smiled, congratulating myself on pushing myself and for not letting his negative attitude affect me. I wouldn't have believed it was possible for me to do all this before.


----------



## jg43i9jghy0t4555

embers said:


> One more thing i've done is drop things in public. I'm thinking of dropping my purse and letting everything fall out of it.


I dropped some things on the road with moving cars T_T and picked them up without thinking

Dressing up in a huge costume sounds fun. It has that anonymous element.. I want to do it


----------



## KatyKamu6

Alot of the advice here is good and if it works that's the main thing. However, I think there's a difference between embarrassment, external shame and internal shame. Alot of the examples here seem like they would work for challenging embarrassment or external shame but what about internal shame, meaning even if someone doesn't know you did something but you feel you let yourself down and feel a need to tell someone to neutralise the internal shame. Could be over-reacting and obsessing over a small thing and getting a compulstion to tell someone. To challenge this maybe doing something that goes against a less important value you hold e.g. dropping litter and then not telling anyone may challenge internal shame. But obviously couldn't do big things that may make you feel bad. I guess these feelings aren't so related to social sittuations but more trying to be a perfectionist in some way.


----------



## nervousneddy

My therapist recently has got me started on shame attacking exercises. Decided to start small so she suggested wearing a silly hat in public. So I got a big wooly hat with a big stupid bobbin on top. I wore it around the block at night first time. Nobody paid any attention. Then I wore it to the shops at night. Again very little attention. Then I wore it to shops during the daytime. And guess what nobody bothered with me. So today I bought a stupider looking hat. Its bright orange and wooly with an animal face on it and two ears on top. Haven't wore it yet but plan to tomorrow. Hopefully it will attract some unwanted attention. Then I can challenge my beliefs simultaneously while getting disapproval from others.


----------



## FormerNarcissist

.


----------



## TempleOfJupiter

This sounds like a lot of fun. I live in a small town so I can't do the more extreme things like go to the sauna in a bigfoot suit, people would talk (not that would ever do that). But this exercise is definitely something I want to incorporate somehow, somewhen. Maybe a first step could be to use intenteonally bad spelling online ocasionalli.


----------



## getsomeair

Reading all this reminds me of a time when I was waiting for my train and a guy in passing asked what my name was, and after I replied he said :"My name is X, hi!" and moved on. I thought it was weird at the time, but now I'm wondering if it was a form of shame attacking exercise... Not that I disapproved, I just thought it was weird. And it generally makes me nervous when people randomly talk to me and ask me questions about myself, but that moment was so brief that I hardly had time to react. 

What I don't understand is how much is the focus supposed to be on receiving actual disapproval? Like, is the exercise only good if somebody disapproves? I mean, if I decide to go outside when I know my neighbor that I want to avoid is also outside as a challenge, I don't expect that person to actually disapprove or anything, but I will feel nervousness and shame. Does that not count as shame attacking?


----------



## jonny neurotic

KatyKamu6 said:


> Alot of the advice here is good and if it works that's the main thing. However, I think there's a difference between embarrassment, external shame and internal shame. Alot of the examples here seem like they would work for challenging embarrassment or external shame but what about internal shame, meaning even if someone doesn't know you did something but you feel you let yourself down and feel a need to tell someone to neutralise the internal shame. Could be over-reacting and obsessing over a small thing and getting a compulstion to tell someone. To challenge this maybe doing something that goes against a less important value you hold e.g. dropping litter and then not telling anyone may challenge internal shame. But obviously couldn't do big things that may make you feel bad. I guess these feelings aren't so related to social sittuations but more trying to be a perfectionist in some way.


Please don't drop litter.


----------



## samuraimunki

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Hello
> 
> I am new to the boards and have been spending some time reading through posts. It is comforting to read that so many people are having the same experiences as me and that they fit under the label of Social Anxiety. Its also great to read of peoples progress.
> 
> I would like to try something called Shame Attacking Exercises that CBT recommends. It is when you do something to actually make people disapprove of you, like shouting out the floor numbers in a crowded lift or singing out loud in a department store. It is meant to show you that disapproval is not as cataclysmic as you might think it is and to help with a chronic lack of assertiveness.
> 
> I have been trying 'baby steps' with it. Little things like cutting in front of people with my trolley in the supermarket, or being a bit cheeky or rude to people, especially if they are rude to me. In this latter situation I would like to experiment with being downright obnoxious on occasion but I am scared of being shot down or beaten up. This is wrong because others do not see it that way ... Sometimes being rude is pretty good fun ...
> 
> I am having trouble (read paralysed) with going as far as calling out the floors in the lift or singing out loud. If anyone has done CBT, this is my thought process:
> 
> "If I sing out loud, there may be a guy there who will insult me and everyone will laugh. I will feel destroyed but laugh like an idiot. People will look down on me. Someone might push me or become physically aggressive. There may be a young girl there who is scared by my behaviour and tells a guard or assistant. I may see someone I know and they will think I've lost it. I have no right to impose my voice on other people. They are trying to shop in peace."
> 
> This is a pretty radical exercise but seems to be a core idea in CBT (Burns, New Mood Therapy). Can anyone offer me 'positive alternatives' to my thoughts above? Can anyone come up with 'baby steps' disapproval challenges for me that are a little less scary? Then I can build up to the harder ones!
> 
> If you see a young, dashingly handsome, but oddly nervous guy singing to himself in a department store near you, go and shake his hand!!
> 
> Ross


Hey Ross,

I think that sounds a bit extreme and you run the risk like you say of being/feeling humiliated which can make your situation worse. Have you heard of the Linden method? Its extremely effective for anxiety. Check out www.helpwithanxiety.net for more info


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## jonny neurotic

samuraimunki said:


> Hey Ross,
> 
> I think that sounds a bit extreme and you run the risk like you say of being/feeling humiliated which can make your situation worse. Have you heard of the Linden method? Its extremely effective for anxiety. Check out www.helpwithanxiety.net for more info


I like how the link url implies that the website is that of a disinterested third party but I actually redirects the the official site of (dan dan da-a-a-an) *The Linden Method!!!*


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## unsocial netwrkn

I do these types of things often. Which is weird. I think sometimes my anger problems override my anxiety.


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## Rocklover639

For the first time this actually seems like an fun idea and my heart didn't sink while imagining myself doing this. I am intrigued and I'm looking to see if it's worth a try.


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## lifelikeahole

Raephex said:


> What good is it being unafraid of shame if all your friends are and find you embarrassing in public because of it


That can change radically from one person or time to the next.
For example all of my friends used to be hilarious in public, now they're total buzzkills.


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## nomoreants

i tried it..then i ended up thinking i have totally lost it.....fear and panic came back stronger than before


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## Gully

You should try toast masters.


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## P1e2

I really could do very few of these things. It's sound pretty hilarious though to try a few of them and for me I feel good if I'm assertive and tell pushy salesperson no thanks, but thanks anyway. Pushy salespeople actually really turn me off and am more inclined to respond to more moderate hands off approach. Feeling rushed to pay at check out is maybe a sign of SA and not sure and do get this feeling sometimes. :|


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