# In what way are benzos better than alcohol?



## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

Sorry if I'm ill educated on the subject but here goes.

Benzo's make you drowsy, relaxed, less inhibited. They're fast acting, make you mentally foggy (so I gather) and may cause short term amnesia. Don't take a lot and don't take them regularly or face risk of tolerance and crippling addiction.

How is this different to alcohol? Is alcohol more, or less addictive? What makes one drug a legitimate therapy that can be prescribed and the other just a recreational drug? Is alcohol ever prescribed for any reason?


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## chiaza (Aug 9, 2012)

Less calories


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Alcohol was a prescription drug in the U.S. during prohibition.

Benzos do not have a lot of the side effects you listed that alcohol has. Alcohol is a dirty drug, not targeting specific receptor sites BZD's are the exact opposite. Alcohol poisons your liver it can cause death either by acute overdose or chronic use benzos carry only a minimal health risk.

BZD's are far more therapeutic than alcohol because they have certain desired effects with minimal side effects where as alcohol kind of messes with your whole brain. Alcohol also has a stronger rebound effect (hangover) which causes a prolonged increase in anxiety due to excitatory NT's in the brain.

I could go on. They are very different substances young lady. A benzo is not just "alcohol in a pill."


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

hazelblue said:


> Sorry if I'm ill educated on the subject but here goes. Benzo's make you drowsy, relaxed, less inhibited. They're fast acting, make you mentally foggy (so I gather) and may cause short term amnesia. Don't take a lot and don't take them regularly or face risk of tolerance and crippling addiction. How is this different to alcohol? Is alcohol more, or less addictive? What makes one drug a legitimate therapy that can be prescribed and the other just a recreational drug? Is alcohol ever prescribed for any reason?


That's a very good question and I agree and so do some researchers:



> *Our results also emphasize that the exclusion of alcohol and tobacco from the Misuse of Drugs Act is, from a scientific perspective, **arbitrary.* We saw no clear distinction between socially acceptable and illicit substances. The fact that the two most widely used legal drugs lie in the upper half of the ranking of harm is surely important information that should be taken into account in public debate on illegal drug use. Discussions based on a formal assessment of harm rather than on prejudice and assumptions might help society to engage in a more rational debate about the relative risks and harms of drugs.


*Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs **of potential misuse*
http://science.iowamedicalmarijuana.org/pdfs/safety/Nutt%20Rational%20Scale%20Drug%20Harms%20Lancet%202007.pdf

P.S. Note that in figure 1 of their chart alcohol is considered worse than benzos. Personally, I'd love to unwind a hard day's work with some opioids or benzos (and do it legally) as I'm not much of an alcohol drinker. But that's not going to happen in my lifetime.


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

istayhome said:


> Alcohol was a prescription drug in the U.S. during prohibition.
> 
> Benzos do not have a lot of the side effects you listed that alcohol has. Alcohol is a dirty drug, not targeting specific receptor sites BZD's are the exact opposite. Alcohol poisons your liver it can cause death either by acute overdose or chronic use benzos carry only a minimal health risk.
> 
> ...


The side effects I listed were for benzos (and alcohol). I'm well aware that they are different drugs but as the title suggests, I'm just trying to open a dialogue of discussion about personal views. What I've read a lot in the treatment reviews is that in some cases benzos have made someone's life 10x worse... that's people who have no trouble with alcohol. So in effect there's no saying that one is absolutely 'better' than the other. I'm sorry if you're a benzo salesman and I'm putting you out of business :stu but I have to say your post is a lot more hostile and uppity than the situation requires.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Alcohol is medically used to counteract antifreeze (ethylene glycol) poisoning.

As mentioned above, medicinal whiskey existed in the US during Prohibition.

While benzos are often described as "alcohol in a pill," I'd have to say that's grossly oversimplified. Having personally used various benzos over the last 12 years you're not going to find many with more first-hand experience than myself. My personal view is that benzos & booze are very different. It's very possible to be on benzos and still fully functional -- able to drive, think clearly, and without others detecting that you "appear drugged." That's quite different from alcohol right there.

While personal response varies greatly, I think you'll find the "mentally foggy" effect to be vastly less with benzos. In fact, I've never detected any mental fog myself, though, like I said this effect does vary. Alcohol, on the other hand, comes with a rather profound mental fog effect that leaves me relaxed but unable to do much of anything. After several drinks I'd been unable to effectively operate this keyboard, making so many typos that it would be pointless to even try writing. While benzos are specifically used to produce an amnesia effect (e.g. midazolam during a surgical procedure), I've never personally experienced any memory loss from benzo use, nor from alcohol use for that matter.

As for abuse potential, just look at the DEA scheduling. Benzos are a C-IV controlled substance, the lowest level of controlled drug. This means they have less potential for abuse/misuse/addiction than C-IIIs (e.g. Vicodin), which in turn have less potential for abuse/addiction than C-IIs (e.g. morphine, amphetamines).


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> Alcohol is medically used to counteract antifreeze (ethylene glycol) poisoning.
> 
> As mentioned above, medicinal whiskey existed in the US during Prohibition.
> 
> ...


 Interesting, thanks for your input. Odd that some doctors would be anti-benzo and against prescribing while alcohol is so freely available. It's hard to get to the truth about the addictiveness which is why I'm scared of trying benzos yet I have no such fears about alcohol (not that I drink much/often).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

hazelblue said:


> Odd that some doctors would be anti-benzo and against prescribing while alcohol is so freely available.


You're right, it's very odd indeed.

I've long noted how insane the anti-benzo sentiment within the medical community is. (Especially in the UK where benzos are effectively banned.)

Some years back I got a phone call from an SAS member in the UK. Five hours prior he'd been to see his doc, a doc who refused to prescribe either benzos or MAOIs. Well, he was able to come up with an OTC alternative to benzos: vodka, which he bought on the way home from that unproductive doctor visit. When he called me he was totally loaded, having consumed most of a liter bottle.

When the medical community fails to adequately treat anxiety, one can reasonable expect that desperate patients will seek alternatives. Alcohol is an obvious alternative available literally on every corner. I must wonder how this fails to dawn on anti-benzo docs. Do they wear blinders when they drive to their office such as to not see the countless bars & liquor stores that exist along the way? Can they not connect the dots to figure out how inadequately treated anxiety could very well lead to alcoholism? In not prescribing benzos they may keep some from getting "hooked" on benzos, but in the process they produce more alcoholism which hardly seems an improvement.



> It's hard to get to the truth about the addictiveness which is why I'm scared of trying benzos yet I have no such fears about alcohol (not that I drink much/often).


Given that you're in the UK, this question is likely moot. Getting benzos in the UK is about as likely as being knighted by her majesty. Unless you're rich and can summon a private doctor to your estate for a house call the odds of getting benzos is basically zero.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Less likely to drunk text your ex-gf with benzos.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah, I'm no Pharmaceutical Sales Rep. As I said I above from experience with both I find Benzodiazapines to be far better as a therapeutic treatment for anxiety. Both benzos and alcohol do have a similar anxiety reducing effect while under the influence. But alcohol is very intoxicating and benzos are not. So while on benzos it is possible to be very normal; no stumbling around, no slurring, no mental fogginess basically benzos relieve anxiety as a singular effect though in high doses (relative to the user's therapeutic dose benzos do cause some of those alcohol-like side-effects in some individuals. Personally I have never felt any drunken-like effects from benzos no matter how high the dose. 

Also alcohol is much more damaging to all of our body tissue, organs, brain, etc. I can tell if someone has been a heavy drinker their whole life however a lif-long benzo user is indistinguishable from anyone else. 

I guess abuse potential just varies from person to person. I have never abused either as I don't find either drug particularly enjoyable. I've known alcoholics who don't like benzos and benzo addicts who don't drink. And there are people who abuse any drug they can get their hands on. 

Overall I would say that alcohol is the more dangerous of the two for sure. I think it probably has more abuse potential as well simply because it actually produces euphoria unlike benzos.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> As for abuse potential, just look at the DEA scheduling. Benzos are a C-IV controlled substance, the lowest level of controlled drug. This means they have less potential for abuse/misuse/addiction than C-IIIs (e.g. Vicodin), which in turn have less potential for abuse/addiction than C-IIs (e.g. morphine, amphetamines).


just wanted to pop in to say that the lowest level of controlled substances per dea scheduling is C-V.



istayhome said:


> Overall I would say that alcohol is the more dangerous of the two for sure. I think it probably has more abuse potential as well simply because it actually produces euphoria unlike benzos.


when i first began taking benzodiazepines, i certainly experienced euphoria. however, i've never misused/abused the drugs.

anyhow, although there is literature to the contrary, euphoria associated with benzodiazepine usage may indeed be felt by those who do not take said drugs habitually and/or take them at exceedingly higher doses. thus, the addiction for some.

on generalised euphoric effects -

http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2012139a.html


> Benzodiazepines treat anxiety, but can also produce euphoric effects, contributing to abuse. Using perfusion magnetic resonance imaging, we provide the first direct evidence in humans that alprazolam (Xanax) acutely increases perfusion in the nucleus accumbens, a key reward-processing region linked to addiction.


on potentiation -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19540407


> Benzodiazepines, especially diazepam and flunitrazepam, were studied versus placebo. Thus, 10 to 20mg of diazepam gave rise to euphoria, a sensation of being drugged, sedation and lessening of cognitive performance.


on the role of genetics -

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1990-04923-001


> 12 men without a history of alcoholism among their 1st-degree relatives served as controls. Findings show that 9 sons of alcoholics, but only 2 controls, had an increase in euphoria scale scores after a single dose of alprazolam.


all of that said, alcohol is, in my opinion, clearly the more harmful substance. and that's all i have to say about that.


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## orbit55 (Apr 23, 2008)

Any daily benzo users notice how popping that first pill when you have a hangover makes you feel a little better? Ugh what a vicious cycle.


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## ChangelingGirl (Nov 15, 2012)

I think it depends, but in general benzos are less intoxicating than alcohol. There are some exceptions, but these benzos are usually illegal anyway. Alcohol also has an excitatory effect (ie. making you agitated) that is pretty universal depending on dose, while benzos only have this effect on certain vulnerable people (eg. some children and elederly people, which is why benzos in the Netherlands should not be prescribed to children). I do agree that both are addictive. Can't compare from personal experience as I don't drink and do use benzos but not regularly.

As a side note, I do not agree that regular benzo users can drive etc. safely. Just as with alcohol, you do not realize you are under hte influence. Benzos in the Netherlands however have a "yellow sticer", meaning you are technically allowed to drive but won't be insured if you cause an accident.


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## orbit55 (Apr 23, 2008)

ChangelingGirl said:


> I think it depends, but in general benzos are less intoxicating than alcohol. There are some exceptions, but these benzos are usually illegal anyway. Alcohol also has an excitatory effect (ie. making you agitated) that is pretty universal depending on dose, while benzos only have this effect on certain vulnerable people (eg. some children and elederly people, which is why benzos in the Netherlands should not be prescribed to children). I do agree that both are addictive. Can't compare from personal experience as I don't drink and do use benzos but not regularly.
> 
> As a side note, I do not agree that regular benzo users can drive etc. safely. Just as with alcohol, you do not realize you are under hte influence. *Benzos in the Netherlands however have a "yellow sticer", meaning you are technically allowed to drive but won't be insured if you cause an accident.*


I find that very odd.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

orbit55 said:


> I find that very odd.


What part is odd, being allowed to drive or not having insurance cover an accident?


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## orbit55 (Apr 23, 2008)

istayhome said:


> What part is odd, being allowed to drive or not having insurance cover an accident?


Just seems weird. I could pull an endless list of Big Pharma that should qualify for this 'yellow sticker'.

Might as well issue stickers for drunk driving because if this yellow sticker entitles you to get loaded on benzo's and drive with minimum consequences, why single out just one drug?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

^Seroquel & trazadone come to mind as drugs likely to render one too sleepy to drive.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

orbit55 said:


> Just seems weird. I could pull an endless list of Big Pharma that should qualify for this 'yellow sticker'.
> 
> *Might as well issue stickers for drunk driving because if this yellow sticker entitles you to get loaded on benzo's and drive with minimum consequences,* why single out just one drug?


The OP doesn't say that such a sticker allows you to become Intoxicated on Benzos then go driving. I have used Benzos responsibly for years and drive when I have to. But it is obviously wrong for may reasons to "get loaded" on any drug and go driving.


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

ChangelingGirl said:


> As a side note, I do not agree that regular benzo users can drive etc. safely. Just as with alcohol, you do not realize you are under hte influence. Benzos in the Netherlands however have a "yellow sticer", meaning you are technically allowed to drive but won't be insured if you cause an accident.


They even put that yellow sticker on my dextro amphetamine and lexapro.

Yeah my reaction time is certainly slowed down on stimulants. :boogie

Put those stickers on every beer bottle. Alcohol work on many different neurotransmitters and comparing it with benzos is like apples and oranges.


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## billyho (Apr 12, 2010)

alcohol and benzos are really not that different except for social stigma... it is socially acceptable to 'drink' multiple days in a row vs admitting to being on a prescription medication. true story, a girl i work with was bragging abpit drinking for 11 days straight. No one on benzos would do that! DEA scheduling is a joke.. why is lyrica a controlled substance and neurontin isn't?? using that logic, lexapro should be scheduled vs cipro. benzos and alcohol will both damage your body in their respective ways and are both addictive.. benzos are better fora business meeting where one can't smell of alcohol.. however nobody goes to a bar to pop a few pills..


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

billyho said:


> alcohol and benzos are really not that different except for social stigma... it is socially acceptable to 'drink' multiple days in a row vs admitting to being on a prescription medication. true story, a girl i work with was bragging abpit drinking for 11 days straight. No one on benzos would do that! DEA scheduling is a joke.. why is lyrica a controlled substance and neurontin isn't?? using that logic, lexapro should be scheduled vs cipro. benzos and alcohol will both damage your body in their respective ways and are both addictive.. benzos are better fora business meeting where one can't smell of alcohol.. however nobody goes to a bar to pop a few pills..


They're quite a bit different. It is well known that alcohol is far more hazardous to the body. Alcohol definitely permanently damages the mind with chronic use, benzos *might (there isn't a definitive scientific answer) An Alcohol OD can kill you, I don't think you can OD on benzos alone. I would never brag about any drug use. Speaking honestly I have used benzos straight every day for three years, I would never do that with alcohol.

There are far more alcohol-only related injuries and death; I have never heard of any benzo-only related injuries or deaths, I imagine there are a few out there though.


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## More Dopamine (Nov 16, 2012)

Both substances affect GABA levels in the brain and there is cross tolerance between the two but they are very different apart from that. Benzo's have a much more streamlined mechanism of action while alcohol is doing all sorts of things in the brain when consumed. 

Benzo's are a much better option to treat anxiety because they are less crude substance than alcohol and do not produce the kind of rebound anxiety alcohol does. But benzo's aren't all good either. They are not nearly as toxic to the liver as alcohol is but they do carry the downsides of tolerance, addiction, and cognitive decline with long term use.


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## More Dopamine (Nov 16, 2012)

istayhome said:


> They're quite a bit different. It is well known that alcohol is far more hazardous to the body. Alcohol definitely permanently damages the mind with chronic use, benzos *might (there isn't a definitive scientific answer) An Alcohol OD can kill you, I don't think you can OD on benzos alone. I would never brag about any drug use. Speaking honestly I have used benzos straight every day for three years, I would never do that with alcohol.
> 
> There are far more alcohol-only related injuries and death; I have never heard of any benzo-only related injuries or deaths, I imagine there are a few out there though.


I agree with you that the two a very different substances and that benzo's carry less health risks (if only because they are RX only) but they can absolutely be hazardous in the wrong hands. They are extremely abusable and let me tell you, witnessing someone heavily intoxicated on benzo's is frightening at times.

I've known people who have taken large amounts of benzo's to get messed up and have heard of plenty of stories. A person really messed up on benzo's doesn't know what they are doing half the time and can end up doing horrendous things that they won't remember upon sobering up.


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## billyho (Apr 12, 2010)

Not many people have ever OD'd on alcohol alone.. I've known complete novice drinkers (freshmen in college) who drank so much they had alcohol poisoning however were just fed an IV to replenish their fluids. Like I said, most people will willingly admit to 'how much they drank' this past weekend but no one will admit to how many benzos they took over the weekend. It comes down to 'whatever works for you'. You have to look at how much more socially acceptable alcohol use is and the much longer history alcohol has of being available. Alcohol has been around since 10000 BC, (if you believe some sources) so of course there is going to be more data on the damage it can do to your body. On the other hand, the first benzo was created in 1955 (according to wiki). It really isn't a fair comparison as to which may be more dangerous. A good rule of thumb is 'all things in moderation'.. the body is a wonderful agent in repairing itself, as long as it isn't over taxed, (chronic smoking, drinking, drug use) I'm really not advocating one over the other, just that different perspectives need to be presented before one can make an educated decision..



istayhome said:


> They're quite a bit different. It is well known that alcohol is far more hazardous to the body. Alcohol definitely permanently damages the mind with chronic use, benzos *might (there isn't a definitive scientific answer) An Alcohol OD can kill you, I don't think you can OD on benzos alone. I would never brag about any drug use. Speaking honestly I have used benzos straight every day for three years, I would never do that with alcohol.
> 
> There are far more alcohol-only related injuries and death; I have never heard of any benzo-only related injuries or deaths, I imagine there are a few out there though.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

billyho said:


> Not many people have ever OD'd on alcohol alone.. I've known complete novice drinkers (freshmen in college) who drank so much they had alcohol poisoning however were just fed an IV to replenish their fluids. Like I said, most people will willingly admit to 'how much they drank' this past weekend but no one will admit to how many benzos they took over the weekend. It comes down to 'whatever works for you'. You have to look at how much more socially acceptable alcohol use is and the much longer history alcohol has of being available. Alcohol has been around since 10000 BC, (if you believe some sources) so of course there is going to be more data on the damage it can do to your body. On the other hand, the first benzo was created in 1955 (according to wiki). It really isn't a fair comparison as to which may be more dangerous. A good rule of thumb is 'all things in moderation'.. the body is a wonderful agent in repairing itself, as long as it isn't over taxed, (chronic smoking, drinking, drug use) I'm really not advocating one over the other, just that *different perspectives need to be presented before one can make an educated decision*..


I fully agree.

I am thinking of benzos vs. alcohol as a medicine. for anxiety. I think benzos are superior mainly because they are such a clean drug vs. alcohol which is a very dirty drug. If you don't know, clean refers to a drug which only has very specific effects to very specific Neurotransmitters and receptor sites. Each Benzo very specifically targets only certain sites on GABA -A complex where as alcohol has dozens of effects all over the brain. So if one were using alcohol as an anti-anxiety med they would also have tons of strong side effects besides just anxiety relief. Also the hangover from alcohol is due to the rise of the excitatory neurotransmitter Glutamate which increases anxiety, benzos don't do that

Again, chronic benzo use is much safer on the body than chronic alcohol use. As far as alcohol existing much longer than benzos have but benzo's have been around for half a century enough time for science to understand them fairly well.

When talking about therapeutic use I think benzos by far are the better option. One pill can stop a paic attack for me whereas a sixpack will just aggravate my anxiety and make me feel sick. I think if alcohol were better than benzos for treating anxiety no one here would take benzos because it is much easier to just buy liquor. I realize many people self medicate consciously and unconscionably with alcohol. But people with access to benzos rarely choose alcohol over their prescription.


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## jonjacob (Aug 28, 2012)

Benzos are not healthy and totally safe at all but its stupid to compare them with alcohol which is way gnarlier, hey I love booze, but its pretty illogical that its the legal drug considering how blasted ANY person would get from drinking, say, a 5th of 80 proof whiskey. Drinking is far more physically damaging than benzos.


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## billyho (Apr 12, 2010)

You're right, benzos are probably cleaner vs alcohol. Alcohol affects multiple neurotransmitters along with dehydration.. Me personally, I would like to see a longer "trial" of information of benzos.. That's just the scientist/conspiracy theorist in me..:afr

I will make one last point though and this is strictly my experience.. I have gotten laid ALOT more using alcohol vs benzos! Most likely because I didn't know about benzos in my early 20's. along with the fact that it's socially acceptable to get absolutely bombed via alcohol as opposed to benzos.

Please don't think I am against benzos, I use them in certain situations in my life.. however when everyone else is drinking, i tend to drink also. Effin social pressures!!


istayhome said:


> I fully agree.
> 
> I am thinking of benzos vs. alcohol as a medicine. for anxiety. I think benzos are superior mainly because they are such a clean drug vs. alcohol which is a very dirty drug. If you don't know, clean refers to a drug which only has very specific effects to very specific Neurotransmitters and receptor sites. Each Benzo very specifically targets only certain sites on GABA -A complex where as alcohol has dozens of effects all over the brain. So if one were using alcohol as an anti-anxiety med they would also have tons of strong side effects besides just anxiety relief. Also the hangover from alcohol is due to the rise of the excitatory neurotransmitter Glutamate which increases anxiety, benzos don't do that
> 
> ...


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

billyho said:


> You're right, benzos are probably cleaner vs alcohol. Alcohol affects multiple neurotransmitters along with dehydration.. Me personally, I would like to see a longer "trial" of information of benzos.. That's just the scientist/conspiracy theorist in me..:afr
> 
> I will make one last point though and this is strictly my experience.. I have gotten laid ALOT more using alcohol vs benzos! Most likely because I didn't know about benzos in my early 20's. along with the fact that it's socially acceptable to get absolutely bombed via alcohol as opposed to benzos.
> 
> Please don't think I am against benzos, I use them in certain situations in my life.. however when everyone else is drinking, i tend to drink also. Effin social pressures!!


Totally, it's an interesting talk and I like your perspective. I know what you mean about drinking when everyone else is. I have spent long periods in my life not drinking when I was just keeping to myself but when I've been around the same group who all drink heavily, I drank heavily too. Even though alcohol made me feel awful. I guess with my particular psychological problems alcohol just really screws me up. I tend to get mood swings and paranoia when I drink, so I usually just avoid alcohol.

I get how you feel about benzos, they were originally marketed as the totally safe non-addictive alternative to barbiturates and it took the medical community like 15 years to realize just how severe a benzo dependency is. And of course it sucks that people abuse benzos because now they are looked down upon. When I used to work in a restaurant kitchen and I'd take a xanax for a panic attack, I had to make sure no saw me swallowing a pill. Because if they did (not even know what kind of pill it was ) everyone would jump to calling me a pill head druggie, etc. Meanwhile everyone in the damn restaurant is drinking something alcoholic all night.

I guess for me, alcohol is more of an escape from my problems where as benzos are a tool that allow me to think straight and become more aware of myself.


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## billyho (Apr 12, 2010)

so, out of curiousity, how old are you? I enjoy the friendly banter back and forth regarding our points of view. I am 37 and may have been through a few more of these discussions than you, depending on you age, however you have been able to come up with a very intelligent response to my affronts on you views.. I welcome that and many more of these conversations.. Bring it!! I think i have seen you on the 'clomid' threads?? i am on there too, what you got? :sus

take care



istayhome said:


> Totally, it's an interesting talk and I like your perspective. I know what you mean about drinking when everyone else is. I have spent long periods in my life not drinking when I was just keeping to myself but when I've been around the same group who all drink heavily, I drank heavily too. Even though alcohol made me feel awful. I guess with my particular psychological problems alcohol just really screws me up. I tend to get mood swings and paranoia when I drink, so I usually just avoid alcohol.
> 
> I get how you feel about benzos, they were originally marketed as the totally safe non-addictive alternative to barbiturates and it took the medical community like 15 years to realize just how severe a benzo dependency is. And of course it sucks that people abuse benzos because now they are looked down upon. When I used to work in a restaurant kitchen and I'd take a xanax for a panic attack, I had to make sure no saw me swallowing a pill. Because if they did (not even know what kind of pill it was ) everyone would jump to calling me a pill head druggie, etc. Meanwhile everyone in the damn restaurant is drinking something alcoholic all night.
> 
> I guess for me, alcohol is more of an escape from my problems where as benzos are a tool that allow me to think straight and become more aware of myself.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

^hehe, I'm 29 yeah I like to keep the back and forth banter friendly, we both got a bit out of the conversation 'twas a good talk. Ultimately the subject doesn't really matter, but learning your personal experience and views are certainly worth while. cheers. Yep I'm sure I'll see you around more.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

istayhome said:


> Alcohol definitely permanently damages the mind with chronic use, benzos *might (there isn't a definitive scientific answer)


Benzos hit the market in 1960 with Librium, soon followed by Valium in 1963. Benzos went on to become wildly popular with Valium being the #1 selling prescription drug of the 1970s. We have a half century of real world experience with benzos, which in that time have been some of the most widely used pharmaceuticals ever. It would seem that by now we'd have all the information one could possibly need to make a final definitive statement regarding the long-term effects of benzos. Benzo-bashers would probably note how many benzo users have died (of old age after all this time).



istayhome said:


> An Alcohol OD can kill you, I don't think you can OD on benzos alone.


I've never heard of any case where benzos alone killed, probably because the amount needed is so gigantic as to be totally unrealistic. Basically, you'd need access to a pharmacy to get fatal amounts, and if you had such access you'd pick something vastly more toxic.

Seeing how nobody dies from benzos, we're forced to look at the LD50 in rats and then multiply by 150 to get to human size and guess that's what might kill a person. The amounts are insane, requiring thousands of pills.

You'll hear of "benzo-related" deaths which translates into "they were a walking pharmacy" that just happened to contain a trace of benzos along with a ton of other stuff that could have killed them all by itself.


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