# day 2 of memantine



## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

2nd day of memantine today - dont really know how to describe it or if I like it. I feel nervous but that could be because Im nervous about the drug. Also I did a bit of gbl last night and I always have rebound anxiety the next day. I just dont want this memantine stuff to make me crazy or less social.

I do feel weird though - and don't know how to describe it but I also feel less OCD (which I do have), Like I havent obsessed about the things I say to people after I say them. Isnt that a way that OCD relates to social anxiety? Like, cant you obsess over and over about stuff you said or will say?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Memantine wont make you crazy or asocial, for me it also reduced my OCD thinking right away but it didnt become fully apperant untill the brainfog lifted up.

The obsessing is probably a combination of OCD and SA.

Anyway, keep us updated, i'm very interested to see how its gonna work for you


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

What dose are you on? The first few days can be annoying to say the least, but that should clear up after ~4 days of consistent dosing. I'm actually just starting memantine myself as well, and I'm comfortable after 4 days @ 5mg. Today is my first day on 10mg.



dronez said:


> I do feel weird though - and don't know how to describe it but I also feel less OCD (which I do have), Like I havent obsessed about the things I say to people after I say them. Isnt that a way that OCD relates to social anxiety? Like, cant you obsess over and over about stuff you said or will say?


That's really common. I don't think it's OCD but many people with SA also have it. Not saying you don't have OCD, just that it's common for SAers to obsess and review what they said/did after it's all over and done.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm on 5 mg day but may stop temporarily because I got school going on and I finally got some cute girls talking to me and I can't afford to feel weird. I do have ocd symptoms beyond just obsessing about social things though they have gotten better. In high school I took 4-10 showers a day


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

I just think its weird that a drug can make u feel odd at first then better. How does that work? Also I took selegiline once for a few weeks. That **** was weird and it didn't go away


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> I just think its weird that a drug can make u feel odd at first then better. How does that work? Also I took selegiline once for a few weeks. That **** was weird and it didn't go away


Selegiline is in my hall of garbage, memantine on the other hand is in my famous hall of fame.

Memantine makes you feel weird because your brain is adapting to it, for example it antagonizes the A7 receptors but they quickly upregulate after a few days, 17 antagonism plays a big role in the initial brainfog.

Like me and illusionalfate said, the weird feeling goes away after 3-4 days staying on a certain dose.

Hold on a few days


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

I couldn't stop laughing today in class! About nothing!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> I couldn't stop laughing today in class! About nothing!


Thats wierd, see if it still happends after a few days.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

also, I felt a little hyper-aware earlier: the opposite of what I need as a socially anxious person. yet at the same time, I was making a lot more eye contact in my convos today and holding conversations longer. still I didn't like the hyper-self aware feeling. a few depressing thoughts also rolled around in my head, but again - that could be from the ghb I took last night as it probably messed up my gaba-b. I've kind of got a weird head pressure too. seems to be from the mem. I need confidence, not self-consciousness.


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. make sense to me memantine!


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/15/3923

and what about this study? ^ it says that low dose memantine causes memory disruption, and it doesnt seem to mention anything about being just "a few days""


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> also, I felt a little hyper-aware earlier: the opposite of what I need as a socially anxious person. yet at the same time, I was making a lot more eye contact in my convos today and holding conversations longer. still I didn't like the hyper-self aware feeling. a few depressing thoughts also rolled around in my head, but again - that could be from the ghb I took last night as it probably messed up my gaba-b
> 
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. make sense to me memantine!


So some good effects start to show up!

And the side effects are going to go away very soon, nice! looking good dronez.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/15/3923
> 
> and what about this study? ^ it says that low dose memantine causes memory disruption, and it doesnt seem to mention anything about being just "a few days""


That study talks about acute dosing, and as expected that would disrupt memory, however lets look at chronic dosing.



> Cognition-enhancing and anxiolytic effects of memantine.
> Minkeviciene R, Banerjee P, Tanila H.
> 
> Department of Neurobiology, A.I.Virtanen Institute for Molecular sciences, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland.
> Memantine, a moderate-affinity NMDA receptor antagonist, is clinically used for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Both clinical and preclinical studies have shown that memantine, at doses producing a steady-state plasma level of 0.5-1 microM, is well tolerated and improves cognition. Here we tested the effects of chronic oral administration of memantine (10, 30 and 100mg/kg per day) producing steady state plasma drug levels ranging between approximately 0.5 and 6 microM on motor, social, emotional and cognitive behavior in normal C57BL/6J mice. Memantine dose-dependently reduced escape latency (hidden platform) and decreased wall swimming tendency in the Morris water maze test, increased time spent in open arms in the elevated plus-maze test, and reduced the number of isolation-induced aggressive attacks, but did not affect exploratory activity in the open field. *These data indicate that high, stable doses of memantine improved cognition and exhibited a potential anxiolytic response in normal mice.*


Looks good doesnt it


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

well how high should my dose be? I cant just wait around for weeks for anxiolytic effects to start. I need now! lol.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> well how high should my dose be? I cant just wait around for weeks for anxiolytic effects to start. I need now! lol.


I dont know, everyone has a differend target dose, for now lets stay at the current dose so you can see for yourself that the side effects disappear, this would make you more at eas when raising the dose in the future.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

is there any way this could be causing halitosis? cause I have been having bad breath today. not making this ish up.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> is there any way this could be causing halitosis? cause I have been having bad breath today. not making this ish up.


lol, no idea, just wait a few days and then see what happends man.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm about to start memantine tomorrow....kinda nervous about the first few days. Will I still be able to function at work?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> I'm about to start memantine tomorrow....kinda nervous about the first few days. Will I still be able to function at work?


Personally i would have been able off, you do feel retarded the first 3 days, i gues it depends on your job.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

i've started 5mg memantine since last week but i haven't any side effect yet.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> i've started 5mg memantine since last week but i haven't any side effect yet.


Whats the reason you started memantine for? I tought you never were a proponent of NMDA antagonists? Also could you update me on LDOPA, id like to know how you are doing lately?

Thx!


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

so I'm doing a day 3, but I dont know why. I really can't risk anything right now. I have a paper due monday and I have been unable to work on it. also, I have been doing gbl everyday and that ruins me the next day. I just need a break from ALL drugs - at least until I have a few weeks off without obligations, which will be here in just 5 weeks. 

hopefully this will give me a glance of what is good about memantine, as I already saw a little glance yesterday. I actually had glimpses of a normal me and it was scary. scary to know how ****** up I am. it made me realize how much I avoid things and don't know if that is due to OCD or Social Anxiety or past drug abuse. scary to know how far things have been taken. I don't even know how I've managed to survive. but I have been surviving somehow and right now I think I need to focus on school or I am out $16,000 - just for this semester.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> so I'm doing a day 3, but I dont know why. I really can't risk anything right now. I have a paper due monday and I have been unable to work on it. also, I have been doing gbl everyday and that ruins me the next day. I just need a break from ALL drugs - at least until I have a few weeks off without obligations, which will be here in just 5 weeks.
> 
> hopefully this will give me a glance of what is good about memantine, as I already saw a little glance yesterday. I actually had glimpses of a normal me and it was scary. scary to know how ****** up I am. it made me realize how much I avoid things and don't know if that is due to OCD or Social Anxiety or past drug abuse. scary to know how far things have been taken. I don't even know how I've managed to survive. but I have been surviving somehow and right now I think I need to focus on school or I am out $16,000 - just for this semester.


Dont take any GHB today and see how you are doing tomorrow.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Whats the reason you started memantine for? I tought you never were a proponent of NMDA antagonists? Also could you update me on LDOPA, id like to know how you are doing lately?
> 
> Thx!


i thought i should try it coz i've heard many positives about it here.
i think L-DOPA is very effective for me. reduced sleep, increased sex, energy and interest and higher sociability!
i think it's one of the safest dopaminergics coz works only as dopamine precursor and nlike some dopamine agonists does not interfere with normal dopamine system of brain.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> i thought i should try it coz i've heard many positives about it here.
> i think L-DOPA is very effective for me. reduced sleep, increased sex, energy and interest and higher sociability!
> i think it's one of the safest dopaminergics coz works only as dopamine precursor and nlike some dopamine agonists does not interfere with normal dopamine system of brain.


What dose are you going too? The minimum dose for depression seems to be 30 or 40mg, for OCD it works in lower doses, its good to experiment with the drug to find your target dose. For SA no target dose is known.

Also, have you been taking LDOPA daily? Did you notice a tolerance building up?


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

Crazy are u awake like 24/7 or something because everytime. I post u are around


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> Crazy are u awake like 24/7 or something because everytime. I post u are around


Because of social anxiety i only sit behind my computer all the time, but i do sleep:lol


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

I just want to take the memantine for it's tolerance reducing benefits. What's a good dose for that and should I take it with adderall?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> I just want to take the memantine for it's tolerance reducing benefits. What's a good dose for that and should I take it with adderall?


For amphetamine the optimal dose for tolerance would be 30mg spread into 2 doses as it may be possible that the window of effects is shorter then the actual half life (a few guys found a extra evening dose essential for proper tolerance prevention).

Yeah, you have to take it daily.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> For amphetamine the optimal dose for tolerance would be 30mg spread into 2 doses as it may be possible that the window of effects is shorter then the actual half life (a few guys found a extra evening dose essential for proper tolerance prevention).
> 
> Yeah, you have to take it daily.


30mg a day only on days that I take amphetamine right (I only take adderall 4 times a week)? Damn that's a high dose...i dunno if I can afford to take 30mg a day.

I took 5mg about an hour ago...starting to feel the brain fog a bit but I feel pretty good, I can see how this can be a good med.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> 30mg a day only on days that I take amphetamine right (I only take adderall 4 times a week)? Damn that's a high dose...i dunno if I can afford to take 30mg a day.
> 
> I took 5mg about an hour ago...starting to feel the brain fog a bit but I feel pretty good, I can see how this can be a good med.


Actually you would have to take it daily or you wouldnt get used to the side effects, HOWEVER since you dont appear to take amp daily, 20mg of memantine a day may be enough.

Yeah its definatly a good med.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Actually you would have to take it daily or you wouldnt get used to the side effects, HOWEVER since you dont appear to take amp daily, 20mg of memantine a day may be enough.
> 
> Yeah its definatly a good med.


Alright sounds good....how long should I wait until I up my dose?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> Alright sounds good....how long should I wait until I up my dose?


I upped my dose every 3 days with 5mg.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I upped my dose every 3 days with 5mg.


I'll do the same then and report my results (I also take klonopin, 5-htp/l-tyrosine, and adderall all in moderation). I work in a fast-paced restaurant doing fairly easy physical work so I think I can handle the brainfog at work.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> I'll do the same then and report my results (I also take klonopin, 5-htp/l-tyrosine, and adderall all in moderation). I work in a fast-paced restaurant doing fairly easy physical work so I think I can handle the brainfog at work.


Allright, keep us updated.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

feeling a little better right this second. but earlier today was like the onset of an lsd trip. my teacher was kind of liquid. I swear. brain fog was bad - I couldnt really concentrate on anything I had to read. looking at my hands was rather weird too - similar to how it is on lsd or the onset of a dxm trip. I also have had some minor muscle pain. feeling a little balanced out right now - but not sure. still have a funny taste in my mouth. still debating on quitting because of school obligations. but I think I can see what this drug can be capable of.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

also, sometimes a lot of clutter bothers me to the point of agitation. sometimes I obsess over the organization of a room, but I don't really feel irked right now at the mess around me. BUT IM STILL PISSED ABOUT THE BRAIN FOG


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> What dose are you going too? The minimum dose for depression seems to be 30 or 40mg, for OCD it works in lower doses, its good to experiment with the drug to find your target dose. For SA no target dose is known.
> 
> Also, have you been taking LDOPA daily? Did you notice a tolerance building up?


now at 5mg but i will increase the dose soon.
ok i take 100mg L-DOPA daily. fortunately i have not perceived any tolerance yet.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> also, sometimes a lot of clutter bothers me to the point of agitation. sometimes I obsess over the organization of a room, but I don't really feel irked right now at the mess around me. BUT IM STILL PISSED ABOUT THE BRAIN FOG


Yeah some ppl reported the DXM like feeling, it wears off soon tough. Did you try studying on mem? Is it still hard today? Should start to go easier with the day.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

Day 2: The side-effects still aren't bothering me too much. The brainfog is there but it's not a big deal. I went to class this morning and had no problems following along even though I did feel a bit more nervous then usual. I'm not worried about work tonight though....low-dose benzo+caffeine and I should be good to go. 

I don't think I have OCD but I do obsess over things a bit too much sometimes and that problem seems like it'll go away with memantine.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

day 4. better mood today. less depressive feeling. brain fog is a bit better - I could follow along in class but not to the extent I usually do. Still having a lack of incessant thought loops playing over and over again in my head. I'm not stuck on one thing for too long a period of time. had a bit of trouble sleeping last night, coupled with mild euphoria.still a lil agitated though and still may go off.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

I think memantine's application in social anxiety may be in: the reduction of looping thoughts relating to social situations AND the reduction of the fear learning process. on this stuff, I do something that normally would freak me out but afterwards its like I'm just in the next moment. onto the next moment. I think this stuff ceases a lot of distracting thought processes that allow maybe more focus. I mean, it's no magic bullet, but it's definitely a big shifter of mental reality. it's like my brain was replaced with a different one in 2 days. complete game changing drug here.

still not sure how much longer I want to be on it though - because I feel it may be conflicting with my schoolwork.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Today is day 4 of being on 10mg. The brain fog has cleared up, and I can already tell this is an efficacious med on its own. I think the D2 agonism plays a large role in this drug's efficacy. I don't want to get ahead of myself here, so I'm just gonna say things look like they're headed in the right direction with memantine.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Great news guys.
Memantine allowed me to finally overcome my OCD wich basicly destroyed alot of my life. Im in the proces of getting it prescribed, my doc referred me to a neurologist, i may even get insured because its of big benefit for me.

Normally our goverment doesnt pay for memantine as its a very rare med.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Great news guys.
> Memantine allowed me to finally overcome my OCD wich basicly destroyed alot of my life. Im in the proces of getting it prescribed, my doc referred me to a neurologist, i may even get insured because its of big benefit for me.
> 
> Normally our goverment doesnt pay for memantine as its a very rare med.


Nice....thats good to hear. Memantine is a great med....it's only been 4 days but I feel like a new person (in a good way). Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Day 4: I think people at work are starting to notice a difference in me (it's a good thing in my eyes but they are surprised obviously). Brain Fog not really noticeable anymore...improved cognition is starting to pop up here and there. I seem to be alot sharper and my thoughts are more organized (though keep in mind i've also been on benzos all weekend...is there any interaction between the two?). I'm ready to try 10mg tomorrow morning b4 class without a benzo or any other drug so i'll really be able to tell how memantine affects me.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Benzo's and memantine shouldnt interact.

Its great to hear all those succes stories!


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## fcbfcb (Sep 17, 2009)

memantine n00b questions:

Can it help out with amphetamine tolerance that has already developed? The only relevant info I could find was that it can speed up recovery time during med breaks. Would it make sense to simply start taking memantine, or should tolerance levels first be "reset" by taking a long break?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

fcbfcb said:


> memantine n00b questions:
> 
> Can it help out with amphetamine tolerance that has already developed? The only relevant info I could find was that it can speed up recovery time during med breaks. Would it make sense to simply start taking memantine, or should tolerance levels first be "reset" by taking a long break?


You need to stop taking amp, start the memantine and take a month break from amp while your on memantine. Maybe a even longer break depending on your amp tolerance.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

yesterday was day 7 and the brain fog had reduced significantly but was still there and I didnt feel quite as sharp when reading through books. The memantine really does feel somewhat like an opiate but you don't feel lazy at all. It is a bit stimulating. Again, it definitely ended recurring thought loops over stuff such as a messy room or about theoretical situations.

I chose not to take anymore today and will probably stop memantine at this time. I will probably try it again over the summer when I don't have as many obligations to take care of. No withdrawal symptoms or anything so far.


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## fcbfcb (Sep 17, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> You need to stop taking amp, start the memantine and take a month break from amp while your on memantine. Maybe a even longer break depending on your amp tolerance.


thanks for clearing that up


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

Ok now that i'm used to the side effects of memantine should I still use it daily? I was thinking of just taking 10mg memantine and 20mg adderall XR four or five days a week.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> Ok now that i'm used to the side effects of memantine should I still use it daily? I was thinking of just taking 10mg memantine and 20mg adderall XR four or five days a week.


Yes, you need to take it daily. Also what dose are you on? Id go to a minimum 20mg a day if you take adderall 4 times a week and 30mg a day when taking adderall 6 times a week.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Yes, you need to take it daily. Also what dose are you on? Id go to a minimum 20mg a day if you take adderall 4 times a week and 30mg a day when taking adderall 6 times a week.


Alright i'll take it daily (i'm very stubborn and have never taken any medication daily) :yes. Time to stock up on the memantine and work full-time this summer to pay for it (I barely make above minimum wage...hopefully that can change soon though). Also, should I take a break from the adderall (I've been taking 20-30mg four times a week for the past 2 months)?

I'm now up to 10mg of memantine but it actually seemed to work better when I only used 5mg. I guess I just need to get used to 10mg and then move on to 20mg a day next week. Too bad it doesn't block benzo tolerance because klonopin is a must to take with adderall in many ways for me (eases crashes, helps me sleep, and gets rid of the anxiogenic effects that stimulants can sometimes cause).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Memantine DOES block tolerance to the sedative effect of benzo's, only no to the anxiolytic effect but you dont build a rapid tolerance to that anyway. I think the benzo's would keep working to smooth the amp out.

You should take a break if you want to lower your tolerance to amp, if you dont want to do that you wont need a break.

Stay on 10mg for long enough time it should start working better again.


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## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

keep me updated my memantine and ashvagandha is on the way! im not too worried about brain fog since im used to it with all this chronic smoke. maybe ill mix a little l-dopa with my deprenyl to see what that does. I could always sprinkle some pea in there too if i get really desperate. most likely ill just wait impatiently.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

MEMANTINE RULES! 

This stuff potentiates amphetamine ridiculously. I'm going to be taking amphetamine much more often now and see if tolerance builds, but this is looking very very promising. I took my usual 15mg Dexedrine IR dose today, and I feel incredibly euphoric. :banana

Edit: 7.5 hours after taking this dose, I'm still going strong! Memantine ftw!


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

i like the sound of this metamine, can someone tell me what class of drug it is? 
i take it its used as an anti anxiety med, but it is not a benzo?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Arisa1536 said:


> i like the sound of this metamine, can someone tell me what class of drug it is?
> i take it its used as an anti anxiety med, but it is not a benzo?


Actually its a alzheimer med but it has potential for many other disorders, there's some research going on for depression, OCD, GAD etc with good results. But it would take a open minded doc to get it..

Some people here have found a doc willing to prescribe it so it can be done.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Actually its a alzheimer med but it has potential for many other disorders, there's some research going on for depression, OCD, GAD etc with good results. But it would take a open minded doc to get it..
> 
> Some people here have found a doc willing to prescribe it so it can be done.


thanks Crazymed :clap
yeah your right about that, an open minded doc indeed, i read on the new zealand health board online that its only used in the treatment of Alzheimer's and will not be given to people under the age of 50, however that site is yet to be updated and i know as drugs.com says that the drug is now being used for GAD and OCD like you said but New Zealand is not there yet and my anti drug doctor would say no anyway, his stance is a more new radical way of treating patients, he prefers therapy and respite over medicines, he was not keen on having me on Effexor but that was there psychiatrist who put me on those, my doctor would rather i be on no medication at all except for one zopiclone at night to sleep

But a doctor who understands depression and social anxiety or who has been there themselves would be more willing to prescribe and such was the case with my old doctor in my home town, who suffered major depression before she became a doctor, she was lovely and prescribed medicines for people who needed it not who wanted it, i understand there needs to be a line between simply wanting a drug to make u "high" and needing something to calm the noise in your anxious mind


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Actually its a alzheimer med but it has potential for many other disorders, there's some research going on for depression, OCD, GAD etc with good results. But it would take a open minded doc to get it..
> 
> Some people here have found a doc willing to prescribe it so it can be done.


I'm sorry but I can't understand the hype around taking an NMDA antagonist, considering side effects may include hallucinations, confusion, difficulty concentrating, agitation, alterations in mood, nightmares, catatonia, ataxia (lack of coordination of muscle movements), anaesthesia, and learning and memory deficits.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jim_morrison said:


> I'm sorry but I can't understand the hype around taking an NMDA antagonist, considering side effects may include hallucinations, confusion, difficulty concentrating, agitation, alterations in mood, nightmares, catatonia, ataxia (lack of coordination of muscle movements), anaesthesia, and learning and memory deficits.


Memantine doesnt cause those side effects in therapeutic doses except some brainfog and cognitive decline the first few days, in fact memantine has LESS side effects then normal antidepressants, when looking at experiences most people report that they are side effect free after the adaptation period.

This has been discussed on the first few pages too, let me find the study.



> Cognition-enhancing and anxiolytic effects of memantine.
> Minkeviciene R, Banerjee P, Tanila H.
> 
> Department of Neurobiology, A.I.Virtanen Institute for Molecular sciences, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland.
> Memantine, a moderate-affinity NMDA receptor antagonist, is clinically used for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Both clinical and preclinical studies have shown that memantine, at doses producing a steady-state plasma level of 0.5-1 microM, is well tolerated and improves cognition. Here we tested the effects of chronic oral administration of memantine (10, 30 and 100mg/kg per day) producing steady state plasma drug levels ranging between approximately 0.5 and 6 microM on motor, social, emotional and cognitive behavior in normal C57BL/6J mice. Memantine dose-dependently reduced escape latency (hidden platform) and decreased wall swimming tendency in the Morris water maze test, increased time spent in open arms in the elevated plus-maze test, and reduced the number of isolation-induced aggressive attacks, but did not affect exploratory activity in the open field. *These data indicate that high, stable doses of memantine improved cognition and exhibited a potential anxiolytic response in normal mice.*


And human studies:


> 1: J Child Adolesc Psychopharmacol. 2007 Feb;17(1):19-33. Links
> A pilot evaluation of the safety, tolerability, pharmacokinetics, and effectiveness of memantine in pediatric patients with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder combined type.Findling RL, McNamara NK, Stansbrey RJ, Maxhimer R, Periclou A, Mann A, Graham SM.
> Department of Psychiatry, Case Western Reserve University and Division of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, University Hospitals of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio 44106-5080, USA. [email protected]
> 
> ...


In FACT i stay away from most antidepressants because of the side effects, and i like memantine because i was COMPLETELY side effect free after a few days.



> *Memantine: The Next Trend in Academic Performance Enhancement?*
> 
> KEN S. OTA, OMS III; TINA GODWIN, OMS II
> Western University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific Pomona, Calif
> ...


http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/106/6/358

Most of the side effects you are describing wont occur with memantine at all. Some people DO report a decline in cognition, but this is nothing serieus , and others report a improvement by thinking more clearly. I personally found a enhancement in my cognition.

In short, your concerns are mostly unwarranted. And i consider memantine's side effect profile MUCH better then the average antidepressant.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Ok, but how does memantine differ from dissociative hallucinogenic NMDA antagonists such as ketamine, dextromethorphan (DXM), phencyclidine (PCP) and nitrous oxide?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> The drug acts by noncompetitively binding to the N-methyl D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors of neurons in brain tissue to prevent overstimulation by glutamate.2 When this excitatory neurotransmitter overactivates NMDA receptors in a tonic manner, an excessive influx of neurotoxic calcium ions follows.2 The resultant excitotoxicity may play a role in the impairment of memory and cognition in AD.3 Because memantine has a low-to-moderate affinity for NMDA receptors, it does not seem to block normal glutamate transmission; rather, it reduces abnormal neurotransmitter-mediated activation of the receptors,4 thereby potentially reducing excitotoxic neuronal damage. This form of neuroprotection may explain the improved cognition in patients with AD reported in the literature.5-7


Basicly, because it only has a mild affinity for the NMDA receptors, and not a strong one like DXM, ketamine etc.


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## karoloydi (Feb 18, 2010)

Something scary happened! I was reading that memantine is also used to treat tinnitus and my ear started ringing! At exactly the same time as I read the word tinnitus!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> It's known to trigger psychosis in Parkinsonian patients -- makes sense on account of it being a combined D2 and NMDA antagonist -- recipe for insanity. In any case though this is probably only at high doses (30-40 mg+), in combination with other dopaminergics (like in the case of Parkinson's), and/or in susceptible individuals (if you're nuts to begin with DON'T TAKE IT!). Otherwise I wouldn't really worry in the slightest.


There are indeed a few reports, but this was allways in combination with a dopamine agonist. Memantine has even been found effective in shizophrenia (in combination with a antipsychotic), so the NMDA antagonism in therapeutic doses shouldnt cause trouble either.
I agree that in therapeutic doses memantine wont cause any trouble in healthy people . People that have issues with psychosis i highly recommend to stay away from memantine and dopaminergics.

EDIT: Hmm, i'm finding mixed results in shizophrenic patients, all in combination with a antipsychotic tough..



> I'm of the opinion now that D2 agonism plays little to no role in memantine's effects whatsoever at the lower spectrum of doses (5-20 mg approximately). I say this because being on prami, I've found that D2 agonism comes with a LOT of crazy side effects like somnolence, nausea, and appetite loss, among others. Furthermore I've been on a relatively high dose of prami for almost a week now and to this day every single time I dose I become acutely depressed/anhedonic and mildly psychotic for several hours afterwards. Take my word for it that you need strong D2 activity to get past those wretched autoreceptors, something that memantine would far from deliver. Oh yea and I should note that I'm fairly certain all of these side effects are mediated by D2 and not by D3 as I also tried ropinirole which is much more selective as a D3 agonist and barely noticed any side effects at all. It was quite pleasant in comparison to prami. Then I took prami and it knocked me out as usual.


Agreed, the D2 agonism plays a minor role in its efficiency.



> This is false. Memantine actually has higher affinity for the NMDAR complex than does DXM to my knowledge. There are two major differences with memantine:
> Memantine is used therapeutically at doses much lower than those which produce dissociative effects (compare memantine and recreational DXM doses: ~10-40 mg vs ~150-800 mg -- and this is with memantine being more potent as an NMDA antagonist).
> Memantine may show some subtype-selectivity in the NMDAR complex; as an example, I read recently that it shows preference for the NR2D subunit of the receptor; in contrast NR2A is associated with psychotomimetic effects.


Interesting, didnt know memantine is a more potent NMDA antagonist then DXM.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

NMDA antagonism + D2 agonism is pretty much responsible for the effects of PCP, pretty much medicine's best (if not PERFECT) model for schizophrenia. So yeah, hardly a surprise :lol

And yes, DXM has fairly low affinity for NMDAR but keep in mind that memantine is only a PARTIAL antagonist and therefore does not exhibit the same level of effect on a receptor as DXM might. Also, most of DXM's NMDA antagonism is actually FAR more potently mediated through its metabolites, particularly Dextrorphan (DXO).


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## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

2.5mg EOD of selegiline and 5mg of memantine daily isnt gonna make me nuts is it? my depression is pretty much crushed but my motivation and sociability is still pretty wack on selegiline.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

podizzle said:


> 2.5mg EOD of selegiline and 5mg of memantine daily isnt gonna make me nuts is it? my depression is pretty much crushed but my motivation and sociability is still pretty wack on selegiline.


No you dont need to worry Memantine has been tested up to 60mg on humans, and was even on that dose mostly well tolerated, it would take HUGE doses to make you crazy.

I would be carefull with adding another dopaminergic on this combo tough, it can be done safely but you need to know what you are doing. (since you were planning to add pramipexole, dont know wheter your gonna keep taking deprenyl when you want to try it).


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## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

i havent ordered any prami yet so it wont be an issue. im a little worried the memantine will increase ADD but I figure its worth a shot anyway.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

podizzle said:


> i havent ordered any prami yet so it wont be an issue. im a little worried the memantine will increase ADD but I figure its worth a shot anyway.


Actually, memantine has been found effective for ADHD.


> 1: J Child Adolesc Psychopharmacol. 2007 Feb;17(1):19-33. Links
> A pilot evaluation of the safety, tolerability, pharmacokinetics, and effectiveness of memantine in pediatric patients with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder combined type.Findling RL, McNamara NK, Stansbrey RJ, Maxhimer R, Periclou A, Mann A, Graham SM.
> Department of Psychiatry, Case Western Reserve University and Division of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, University Hospitals of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio 44106-5080, USA. [email protected]
> 
> ...


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## karoloydi (Feb 18, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Actually, memantine has been found effective for ADHD.


Theres only one question remaining. Will memantine make me coffee in the morning?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

karoloydi said:


> Theres only one question remaining. Will memantine make me coffee in the morning?


Yeah, it definatly will :lol.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

LOL but is it legal?
i only ask cuz i know illicit drugs have been mentioned on this forum like LSD and so forth and the amphetamines which sound great but again are expensive, illegal and terribly addicting, also i hear the come downs are rough:um:um


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Arisa1536 said:


> LOL but is it legal?
> i only ask cuz i know illicit drugs have been mentioned on this forum like LSD and so forth and the amphetamines which sound great but again are expensive, illegal and terribly addicting, also i hear the come downs are rough:um:um


Yeah its legal, its just a alzheimer med, its not addictive. Besides, amphetamines are legal when prescribed. But memantine is nothing like the amphetamine's, benzo's or other addictive substances.

I didnt even experience any sign of withdrawal after taking it for a month.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

I like it at 5mg a day mixed with other meds. 10mg just makes me feel weird.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

inVis420 said:


> I like it at 5mg a day mixed with other meds. 10mg just makes me feel weird.


How many consecutive days have you tried 10mg for? It can take 4-7 days @ 10mg before the weird feeling goes away.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Ok, but how does memantine differ from dissociative hallucinogenic NMDA antagonists such as ketamine, dextromethorphan (DXM), phencyclidine (PCP) and nitrous oxide?


Memantine is only a partial antagonist (and a fairly weak one at that, so it's exerting nowhere near a "full" effect on receptors, regardless of affinity) as opposed to the ones you listed. NMDA antagonists protect against tolerance and excitotoxicity largely by inhibiting excess calcium ion influx.

Memantine, as only a partial antagonist, kind of puts a ceiling on the level of calcium influx inhibition enough to prevent excitotoxicity/tolerance, but on the flip side generally somewhat a bottom limit as well. Whereas a full antagonist like ketamine can inhibit calcium influx excessively, and it's that excessive blocking of ion channels which is typically associated with the dissociative experience.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> How many consecutive days have you tried 10mg for? It can take 4-7 days @ 10mg before the weird feeling goes away.


I only took it for like 2 days but I go to school full-time and work alot lately. Maybe i'll try 10mg again in a few weeks when i'm not taking so much klonopin no....seriously that drug is more addicting then adderall). But for now 5mg works well and i'm saving money. Also, keep in mind i'm skinny...6'1 165.


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