# Let's take some pride in running our relationships into the ground



## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

Or as Frank Sinatra would say, why not just .... send in the clowns? 

Mind you, not on purpose. But it's when you want things with a person to be a certain way so much, and nothing you do is cutting it. I'm not talking about sabotage, but I mean just confronting them even when it's really hard to do that. Or just being honest with people even if it's not going to be appreciated (as long as you are not harassing them).

I see threads all the time with people frustrated at how certain interactions have gone: how this person doesn't think much of them anymore, how they won't want to talk to them anymore, etc. because of something they said or did in an effort to make things better.

It destroys my self-esteem, at least, to put myself out there only to be shot down. But I have been doing it anyway these days. I'm sending in the clowns, I know. I'm going to take some pride, because I am trying to see things through for my own sake, because I think my feelings count too.

I had to make a thread about this because I need to put this sentiment in stone, so I can remember it, and hopefully some other people can too.
I think that if something with someone really will just not work, and there's a chance they care enough at least to answer to you, then there is nothing to lose. Because you've already lost them if you don't say anything.
I just told someone I've become estranged from, someone I miss who doesn't seem to care about me at all, "You are really special, I'd love if I met someone like you," and he didn't respond. That's life. I tried to have a nice exchange, and I'm proud of myself.

While we're here, what are some recent triumphs over confrontational situations you've had? did it go well, did it go poorly? How do you feel about the decision you made?


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## hmnut (Aug 8, 2011)

Well it wasn't recent but the only relationship I ever had I walked away from. I considered staying with her because "no one else would ever want me." Sadly that seems to be true three years later.

But I was not happy and I could see I would never be happy, I am pretty good at being unhappy alone, being unhappy and having to be around someone else unhappy... isn't fun for me. So I ended it.


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## AsukaHana (Apr 17, 2016)

Leaving somewhere
saying bye to woman
put out my hand and just as she is about to grab it i change my mind and kiss her goodbye
she looks weird at me
It was pretty awkward
Couldn't stop thinking about that for the next few hours

It's always the little things.


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## Acheron Black (Mar 14, 2016)

pied vert said:


> While we're here, what are some recent triumphs over confrontational situations you've had? did it go well, did it go poorly? How do you feel about the decision you made?


First, thanks for this thread. Your post really hits the nail as far as regret.

Secondly, prepare to read some real douchebaggery on my part. This is long af, but if nobody reads it, it was therapeutic on my end. I needed to get it out.

I blocked a girl on Skype that I really liked because I felt that I was becoming too needy on her - common trait of people with anxiety and depression - it comes from low self-esteem/self-value/self-worth. Initially I did my best to not message her too much, but I thought about her all of the time, even in the days between messages.

So, I tried to be a strong man and not be needy despite my anxiety, face my insecurity, and break off contact - Trying not to talk to her became too much. But the thing is, nothing in the world would have made me happier than to hear her say, "You are really special, I'd love if I met someone like you." My heart would have melted, corny as that sounds, whatever, it's true.

She had a lot in common with me, but, she had a six-year long-distance relationship that she didn't want to lose, despite being hurt and unhappy from having been cheated on by the same guy - she said she didn't want to break up with him because she was afraid of being alone. I wanted her to be happy, and I wanted to be happy with her. But, I felt like, I was just a plan B, an orbiter, option #2, a confidence boost. We talked on the phone - she's from SAS and lives in the same state - about meeting, but I couldn't get it out of my head that maybe she just wanted to use me to get even with her ex. I had a bad relationship myself in the past that really gave me some trust issues, and this probably played a part, but I also felt like this girl had more going on than I knew.

Either way, she had a bf, so I said NO to meeting, despite being needy and lonely - the temptation was very strong, tbh - not only did I really like her personality, but I really thought she looked great, I was really attracted to her and I think she is beautiful. So, I could have been one of those guys that said **** it, let's meet and see what happens, but I wanted to do the right thing - if I was dating someone I would be upset she was even talking to another guy like we were... Plus, would you be with a girl that would meet someone behind their bfs back... she could just end up doing it to you someday...

But, despite all that, I cared about her. She had health problems with lyme disease, constant fatigue (which I deal with too), headaches, and so many of the same problems with anxiety and depression. I didn't tell her too much how I was struggling myself, because I wanted to show her I was strong, and tbh impress her with my successes instead, but I felt a lot of the things she felt - the apathy, the depression, and the difficulties they cause.

Towards the end I did open up to her in a phone conversation, about some of the things I went through when I was young that I think contribute to my anxiety and self-esteem issues. She had abuse of her own that hurt her, we had talked about it. So I opened up about mine one night, but she said she had to go suddenly ("I'm gonna go now", with no reason, and I didn't want to pry and ask), so I felt like I had been there for her more than she was for being there for me - that I cared TOO much. We had a seven-hour phone conversation previously, just talking about everything and nothing, so things felt like they were different, that maybe she didn't care about me as much anymore, especially considering how I was finally talking about how this stuff made me feel with someone.

Before this, we fought once, almost stopped talking - it was pretty bad. Called each other horrible names, said **** about each other, personal **** that we knew would hurt. It sucked. A lot. In the beginning we did plan to meet, and I got ready, and that morning she said not today, that she was tired, something to that effect, I had been looking forward to it for a week, planned out where to meet, etc. I felt like again, I was too interested, more than her. And then we fought. I felt like she blew me off. I was upset. We apologized to each other, but that argument did hurt things. Like, when someone hurts you, and you forgive them, but you can't subconsciously forget the feeling of how hurt they made you feel. I wish it didn't happen.

I have made a lot of changes in my life though, and continue to try to beat my anxiety - I moved out on my own finally, and tried to be as strong of an independent man as I can - and I just wanted to continue to beat my problems with someone like her that felt anxiety and depression too, and has experienced a lot of the same issues I have faced - we both grew up dealing with racial comments and feeling different in small, predominantly white towns, and had pretty difficult family issues growing up.

But often I felt like she was TOO apathetic - she knew it too, we talked about it, and she told me her therapist said something similar to her as well. And it did frustrate me. I dreamt of finding someone that wanted to get better just as much as I did. But she made me realize that you can't change someone, they have to want it already - and THEN you find them - you can't change someone into who you want them to be, you have to find people that already share your goals.

The thing that makes me feel the worst? Like a horrible human being? She is adopted. She told me how her biological mother contacted her on FB when she was a teen. But the girl I was talking to messaged her mother back that she wanted to to take it slow, and wasn't comfortable meeting yet. Her mother basically abandoned her again, and ghosted her. Broke off contact, and made the girl I was talking to feel like **** to this day about it. So, what do I go and do, knowing she has been abandoned and hurt in the past? I block her like a ****ing idiot, for my own selfish reasons, despite knowing she's been hurt similarly by her own biological mother. Oh, I definitely deserve worse than never being talked to again - that's too lenient. I deserve to get the ever-living **** kicked out of me, trip-to-the-hospital, beat-the-****-up. Seriously. I am scum. I deserve all of the problems and difficulties I face, and more.

Anyway, there is a small chance she may end up reading this, but it's over and gone, and I'm just venting for my own sake. I accept that. I'm getting off easy. I messaged her once on Skype about a month after I blocked her - time had passed, I felt less needy, and I wanted to see how she was, but she blocked me back - I don't blame her or anything, I blocked her first. I also found her number more recently - I thought I didn't have it anymore, so I sent her a quick text to see how she was. She didn't reply - again, I don't blame her.

I was the one more interested though, so I don't think I was missed too badly. I did see her post on here about me blocking her, though she didn't mention me specifically. I know it hurt her though from her post, and I'm sorry for that. I was too needy though, she had a bf, and I didn't think she wanted me all that much, not as much as I wanted her. I didn't want to be an orbiter, a plan B, just a confidence boost.

Anyway, long story long, I miss her. It's done. Never gonna get it back. I get that. But she meant a lot to me, and it hurt to feel like I cared too much, so I let her go. Idk if I was right, or it was the right way to do it or not, but I did it. Gotta live with it and without talking to her again, no matter what now.

I'll be alright, there are plenty of fish in the sea, and I have made other Skype friends, but I miss her. She was special. Didn't want to tell her that, and come off too strong, but she was.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

I can def relate.

As for the last part of your post I've had some triumphs, for sure, and a few that....well it was better to just leave and go our separate ways I guess.

The former was with an ex I was going out with about a year ago. I confronted her, she confronted me, it was kind of a mutual thing lol, it got pretty ugly at one point. I think both of our hearts got broken tbh. We both have a whole lot of trust issues. I've talked about her before on this site (and others) and it really is a Goddamn shame it didn't work out. But. It didn't work out. It took both me and her a while to separate and sort out our feelings enough to be able to be friends. I say "friends" but in all honesty I think (know) we both still have feelings for each other. She's called / texted me since we broke up. And I've done the same. The conversations are pretty superficial, but the fact that we still call each other, and the fact that we really still care about how we're doing I think says a lot. We're both very, very broken people. When we were going out I got into some conversations with her (and her with me) about our past and....wow....some of it's pretty mind blowing. Anyways this relates because when our "relationship" ended we had a huge blowup, a huge screaming match over the phone. And she ended up texting me a couple months later. Then calling. Then calling again. And about eight more times and then I finally picked up and then we started talking again.

The latter was with someone I talked to for quite a while on this site (about a year and a half) and finally met up with, and things just didn't work out. The chemistry was def there. We messed around, on our first date, our first time seeing each other. We actually went as far as you could go without actually having sex. And it just didn't work out, for reasons I'd be more than happy to go into but it's just....not something I should go into because she might still be lurking here. I actually miss her, very much. She's just....awesome sauce.

I've gotten into conflicts a couple of times on this site (I've been here for a few years, under a previous user name) and I've admitted I've fuqed up. I'm human. My disorders have really screwed me up, in a big way. I apologize, I acknowledge, I really try to own it when I screw up though. I'm human and I make mistakes. If that's not enough then I'm sorry. What else can I do besides move on after that...that's all I can do. I really don't hold grudges. I've gotten into some pretty nasty debates on this site (and others) but I don't take things personally, for the most part. And I think most of the time others don't take it personally either.


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## danabeaton (Jul 15, 2011)

I think I have a tendency to get paranoid and assume my partner wants the worst for me. It's awful. I try not to blame myself and victimise myself, because I know relationships are complicated, especially when we both have mental handicaps.


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

hmnut said:


> But I was not happy and I could see I would never be happy, I am pretty good at being unhappy alone, being unhappy and having to be around someone else unhappy... isn't fun for me. So I ended it.


Absolutely! The pride comes from people like us sticking up for our well-being even when it means we lose a relationship, which is generally a rare thing and valued above all else. Isn't that true? I think a lot of us tend to put other people's wants and whims above our own because we're afraid of the failure implied by losing that person. This is true for even normal people, but especially us.
But accepting that this person maybe _should _be lost if they're not going to respond well to some effort of yours is a huge step in getting better. Congrats.



AsukaHana said:


> Leaving somewhere
> saying bye to woman
> put out my hand and just as she is about to grab it i change my mind and kiss her goodbye
> she looks weird at me
> ...


I love it- and I wouldn't believe you if you said you regretted it :clap


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

Acheron Black said:


> Anyway, long story long, I miss her. It's done. Never gonna get it back. I get that. But she meant a lot to me, and it hurt to feel like I cared too much, so I let her go. Idk if I was right, or it was the right way to do it or not, but I did it. Gotta live with it and without talking to her again, no matter what now.


:squeeze
That's exactly what I meant by "my feelings count too" - the other person having issues does not mean that you should continue to suffer from the relationship. Whenever I care about somebody who doesn't care as much about me (which is whenever I care about somebody), I'm always in the mindset of "What can _I do_ to make this work?" because I am very sensitive to their feelings and desires. But it never actually works because nothing I do to make them comfortable makes me more satisfied with the way that they continue to treat me.

I completely get that you wanted to do what you could to preserve the relationship in any form, because I've been there too, but once you introduce feelings on your end, you've already changed it. What friendship was before can't still work. It's easy to blame yourself because you're the one who grew the damned unnecessary feelings, but it happens to everyone. And at that point, you just have to have enough self-respect to say to yourself "what about me??" and make a decision, even if it will sabotage the relationship. I know this is what you did, I just want to validate the decision you made!

I totally believe you when you say what you had was special, and it probably was, and no amount of bitter hurt unrequited feelings will change that. But similarly, no degree of 'special' will change how destructive it was for you. I myself really wish "special" was the only requirement for a perfect relationship - I met someone who completely baffled me in how special our connection felt - but it wasn't enough to make it work. So you don't have to convince yourself it wasn't special, that's the good news, because you know you wouldn't have been able to do it - but you have to realize that there is nothing about it being special that promises or entitles you to anything.

I'm personally not a fan of ghosting because in my experience it hurts more than honesty. I would have recommended you told her why you were going to block/delete her first, and then have done it, but... as much as she might enjoy the role of victim, she would be playing dumb to say that she has _no idea why _you might do a thing like that. She can't possibly say "did he get bored of me and stop caring?!". She must know how you felt about her. And the fact that she's taking no accountability and just ignoring you despite knowing you didn't make the decision lightly or to be a d*ck (far from, it actually hurt) just means she's got issues that you don't need. And she has a right to have those issues, but you don't need them. She just wasn't having any positive impact on your life, and bottom line is that your feelings count too.

That guy, btw, that I said "You are really special, I'd love if I met someone like you" to - I messaged him yesterday asking why he never responded, and he said he "must have read it and forgotten about it, sorry" and then made a casual comment about something unrelated to the original message. I had a mini heart attack before sending him that message, and I used to worry all the time what he thought about me, how he felt about me, etc. And it came down to forgetting to even respond. And maybe I was about to completely embarrass myself by sending him that message and thereby run someone's respect for me into the ground - but I _could not _continue to pretend my feelings didn't exist, you know? And there _is _something to take pride in from that.


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> As for the last part of your post I've had some triumphs, for sure, and a few that....well it was better to just leave and go our separate ways I guess.


Yeah, we hear and talk about confrontation all the time, but at least I never realized how much _actual_ maturity it takes to do it: 
To even just realize you would never be happy with the way things are,
Then that you are actually capable of changing things (instead of being the passive little b*tch that you've grown accustomed to being),
That you are even accountable to yourself and to this other person to try for that change,
And then to put everything on the line for the sake of it.

And by the way, I think deciding to go your separate ways is absolutely a triumph - that is some hard sh*t to have to do, especially because it involves "an other", and it's like - wow, the decision I'm making affects not only me but someone I care about too. And you chose something for better or for worse --- pride!!!
We always end up walking away from these things with regret at how the end result wasn't what we wished for - but the end result is not even half the story. You did the best you could at the time with the situation you were dealing with.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

pied vert said:


> Yeah, we hear and talk about confrontation all the time, but at least I never realized how much _actual_ maturity it takes to do it:
> To even just realize you would never be happy with the way things are,
> Then that you are actually capable of changing things (instead of being the passive little b*tch that you've grown accustomed to being),
> That you are even accountable to yourself and to this other person to try for that change,
> ...


Well....lol....I think it's sometimes not really a choice. In some situations you can (obviously) decide to make a change (as opposed to being a "passive little b*tch" as you put it) but in others, not so much. I think sometimes it's pointless to try to cross bridges that have been burned.

For example. If I say something that you take the wrong way, or ffs, if I say something even intentionally out of anger in the heat of the moment....and then I apologize, I mean, without any ifs, ands or buts, I mean I really do offer a true apology and then you refuse to accept that....then what choices am I really left with? I can grovel, I can beg, I can crawl on my hands and knees, kiss your feet, kiss your ***, plead my case over and over again....but who has the real power in that situation? You do. Who really decides to end the relationship for all intents and purposes? You do.

It's out of my hands at that point. The decision is all yours. And I don't necessarily mean it has to be you doing the forgiving, it could be me. I've been on both ends of it. It's just a goddamn shame when relationships end that way. I've had a couple that ended like that, and there's really no need for it to turn out that way. Like you mentioned, it's all just foolish pride, that's all it is.


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## Acheron Black (Mar 14, 2016)

pied vert said:


> :squeeze
> That's exactly what I meant by "my feelings count too" -* the other person having issues does not mean that you should continue to suffer from the relationship. *Whenever I care about somebody who doesn't care as much about me (which is whenever I care about somebody), *I'm always in the mindset of "What can I do to make this work?" because I am very sensitive to their feelings and desires. But it never actually works because nothing I do to make them comfortable makes me more satisfied with the way that they continue to treat me.*


First, thanks for taking the time to read it, you read it all. And thanks for the hug emoji lol.

Bold: I never thought of it like that before, "my feelings count too." In the end, I guess I did subconsciously feel that way, but acted on it poorly by blocking her. I did feel drained at that point though. I wanted her to feel the same about me and to want to improve. And I felt like things were becoming an energy suck - putting caring and effort in, but feeling like she wasn't as interested I obviously wasn't perfect, I definitely realize that. I did care though. And It got overwhelming.

The second part, I guess I'm the same. I think it comes from the neediness from low self-esteem. The other person could be perfect, and you would still feel like you aren't "satisfied" enough. I know why now, when you have low self-esteem, it is like a bottomless pit that, no matter what you throw into it, it can never be filled. The only way you can fix it is to climb in there yourself and recognize that you have value - it is completely unfair to expect someone else to make you feel good about yourself. Add in the fact of them having their own issues that they are dealing with, and both people are quickly going to become drained and exhausted by the relationship.



> I completely get that you wanted to do what you could to preserve the relationship in any form, because I've been there too, but once you introduce feelings on your end, you've already changed it. What friendship was before can't still work. It's easy to blame yourself because you're the one who grew the damned unnecessary feelings, but it happens to everyone. *And at that point, you just have to have enough self-respect to say to yourself "what about me??" and make a decision, even if it will sabotage the relationship. I know this is what you did, I just want to validate the decision you made!*


Yes, it was hard for me to tone down my feelings, and message her less, it is hard to be friends after you already like someone.

Bold: I hadn't thought about it like that either. I guess that's what it was. I finally said "What about me." I have a hard time doing that, and then it comes out in a big emotional decision, which makes it harder. Like a dam, a small leak won't destroy it, but a big gush will tear down everything. Thanks for validating what I felt, it's supporting to know someone else has felt this before.



> I totally believe you when you say what you had was special, and it probably was, and no amount of bitter hurt unrequited feelings will change that. But similarly, no degree of 'special' will change how destructive it was for you. I myself really wish "special" was the only requirement for a perfect relationship - I met someone who completely baffled me in how special our connection felt - but it wasn't enough to make it work. So you don't have to convince yourself it wasn't special, that's the good news, because you know you wouldn't have been able to do it - *but you have to realize that there is nothing about it being special that promises or entitles you to anything.*


Yeah, you are right, also very insightful of you. I didn't think of it that way. But it's the standard "unrequited love" sort of scenario - just because you have feelings for someone, think the world of them, or think they are unique, doesn't mean you get to have them. Sometimes it just can't work.



> I'm personally not a fan of ghosting because in my experience it hurts more than honesty. I would have recommended you told her why you were going to block/delete her first, and then have done it, but... as much as she might enjoy the role of victim, she would be playing dumb to say that she has _no idea why _you might do a thing like that. She can't possibly say "did he get bored of me and stop caring?!". *She must know how you felt about her.* And the fact that she's taking no accountability and just ignoring you despite knowing you didn't make the decision lightly or to be a d*ck (far from, it actually hurt) just means she's got issues that you don't need. *And she has a right to have those issues, but you don't need them. She just wasn't having any positive impact on your life, and bottom line is that your feelings count too.*


I did give a short explanation/last message. I pretty much said I needed to block her. I tried to play it cool, and act like it was no big deal - to be strong and not needy. She asked if she did something wrong. I said I felt needy towards her because of anxiety, and that she 100% didn't do anything wrong, I was just too needy on her. She said, "Ok, have a nice life, I guess." That's was the exchange, and then I blocked her.

Bold: She said in a post, replying to someone else with a similar experience, "I know how you feel... I've also been blocked by a crush. It really damages your self esteem, makes you question what you did wrong, etc. " I'm not sure what to make of that. I didn't think at the end that she considered me a "crush", that I liked her more. Maybe I was just another option, a Plan B, an orbiter, a confidence-booster for her. But, I hate that I "damaged her self-esteem". and made her question things. If she would have talked though, instead of saying "Have a nice life" I definitely would have given her closure.

Bold: Again, insightful. She has a right to have her feelings and issues, but so do I. Things were making me feel worse, and I needed to think about my overall happiness and well-being. I don't do that enough. Like I said earlier, I just let it all release at once, instead of taking care of things regularly as needed. It bottles up and becomes more complicated and messy.



> That guy, btw, that I said "You are really special, I'd love if I met someone like you" to - I messaged him yesterday asking why he never responded, and he said he "must have read it and forgotten about it, sorry" and then made a casual comment about something unrelated to the original message. I had a mini heart attack before sending him that message, and I used to worry all the time what he thought about me, how he felt about me, etc. And it came down to forgetting to even respond. And maybe I was about to completely embarrass myself by sending him that message and thereby run someone's respect for me into the ground - but I *could not continue to pretend my feelings didn't exist, you know? And there is something to take pride in from that.*


I'm really, really sorry he forgot, that must have hurt. But your feelings do matter, and you took initiative and went and found out what you needed to know. Good for you, really :squeeze

I'd like to share some of my own insight with you that I've discovered for myself along the way, about *DESIRE*. We wan't most what we can't have. This guy is being distant. You like him, that means you value him. If he doesn't respond, it makes you feel less valuable, so your self-esteem drops. Your mind then needs to correct this drop in perceived self-value, it tells you that you MUST have that person even harder. To your brain, that guy is valuable, and having him will elevate your own value.

We all want the people and things that are seen as valuable. Something you can have easily has little to no value. This applies when we are attracted to someone too. A little psychology for ya, lol. Hopefully it helps you in your situation, like your posts have helped me in mine.


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## Acheron Black (Mar 14, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> For example. If I say something that you take the wrong way, or ffs, if I say something even intentionally out of anger in the heat of the moment....and then I apologize, I mean, without any ifs, ands or buts, I mean I really do offer a true apology and then you refuse to accept that....then what choices am I really left with? I can grovel, I can beg, I can crawl on my hands and knees, kiss your feet, kiss your ***, plead my case over and over again....but who has the real power in that situation? You do. Who really decides to end the relationship for all intents and purposes? You do.


Great point. I never thought of it this way before. It is pride on their part when they refuse to accept the apology and drag it out, with the intention of getting you to "beg and grovel" for their forgiveness. They are doing that all for their own self-esteem at that point.

I suppose it's a way for them to restore balance, kind of like, an eye for an eye, they get even, since you may have hurt their self- esteem in the first place.

Some people are habitual-apologizers. But if you honestly made a mistake, and own up to it, the other person should give you a chance. You should get to prove your sincerity, with your actions. Not by begging.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

Acheron Black said:


> Great point. I never thought of it this way before. It is pride on their part when they refuse to accept the apology and drag it out, with the intention of getting you to "beg and grovel" for their forgiveness. They are doing that all for their own self-esteem at that point.
> 
> I suppose it's a way for them to restore balance, kind of like, an eye for an eye, they get even, since you may have hurt their self- esteem in the first place.
> 
> Some people are habitual-apologizers. But if you honestly made a mistake, and own up to it, the other person should give you a chance. You should get to prove your sincerity, with your actions. Not by begging.


Yeah, the other side is giving people time to forgive. You can't take words back, you're supposed to taste the words before you spit them out but I don't know of anyone that's never spoken out of anger or said things they didn't mean in the heat of the moment. And words can hurt, there's no doubt.

But the question is how much time is enough, how long do you wait to be forgiven (years, forever?) and when do you just resign yourself to the fact that the relationship (friendship, gf/bf, whatever) has run its course and is over with, and it's just to the point where it's better for you both to move on.

I agree, actions do speak louder than words. I'm thankful this hasn't happened very often to me, at all, only a handful of times going all the way back to hs even. If I find myself in a situation where I can't redeem myself in their eyes, if I can't be forgiven then I agree, what's the point, really? For either one involved....


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## Acheron Black (Mar 14, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> But the question is how much time is enough, how long do you wait to be forgiven (years, forever?) and when do you just resign yourself to the fact that the relationship (friendship, gf/bf, whatever) has run its course and is over with, and it's just to the point where it's better for you both to move on.


Yeah. Either way, you has to carry on with their life no matter what the outcome, whether the person forgives you or not. But like the OP told me, It is ok to accept that your feelings are important too, so I also need to forgive myself for what I did, and move on from this.

So, the next friendship/potential relationship - I now have this former friendship as a learning experience. Life, as they say, goes on.

Also, as a side note, this video can help guys like me decide when a girl is someone they should be investing time in in the first place. Knowing when a girl is interested in you is key to saving yourself a lot of guessing and wondering what she really feels about you. Would have helped me in my situation too.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

Acheron Black said:


> Yeah. Either way, you has to carry on with their life no matter what the outcome, whether the person forgives you or not. But like the OP told me, It is ok to accept that your feelings are important too, so I also need to forgive myself for what I did, and move on from this.
> 
> So, the next friendship/potential relationship - I now have this former friendship as a learning experience. Life, as they say, goes on.
> 
> Also, as a side note, this video can help guys like me decide when a girl is someone they should be investing time in in the first place. Knowing when a girl is interested in you is key to saving yourself a lot of guessing and wondering what she really feels about you. Would have helped me in my situation too.


Lmfao. "This is Bill. From the office". Omg. I cannot stop laughing. Very old school. I missed these films, but am old enough to have seen some in school that weren't far off from that. Omg....


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

Acheron Black said:


>


this is perfect!! This is what I've always thought whenever someone acts disinterested ... I tell myself a bunch of "what if they really did mean..." but bottom line is that if they cared, they would have shown it.


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## Acheron Black (Mar 14, 2016)

pied vert said:


> this is perfect!! This is what I've always thought whenever someone acts disinterested ...* I tell myself a bunch of "what if they really did mean..." *but bottom line is that if they cared, they would have shown it.


Exactly, I wish more people knew about this, it would help so many... our brains are great at mulling over every scenario trying to find the solution that leaves our self-esteem intact. But, it's a hugely stressful process and causes more harm than good.

Which is why I recommend this rule, and it get's to the point of what you mentioned before, that "Your feelings matter too!". So, if with this simple rule, you can save yourself a lot of heartache and effort pursuing uninterested people, you can actually better focus yourself on the ones that really do show their interests in you.

IF SOMEONE IS INTERESTED IN YOU, THEY WILL MAKE IT CLEAR BY THEIR ACTIONS.



AllTheSame said:


> Lmfao. "This is Bill. From the office". Omg. I cannot stop laughing. Very old school. I missed these films, but am old enough to have seen some in school that weren't far off from that. Omg....


LOL. Super corny.

Tfw you are socially anxious and the date in the 50's video sounds kind of nice though... lol.


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## a degree of freedom (Sep 28, 2011)

@pied vert - you're right, let's have pride in trying and saying what we mean and being true to ourselves.

I wanted to say also that I don't think you had a bad outcome... Silence can mean many things and I think so much of social anxiety is just how we fill in the blanks, what we're not told clearly. I struggle with this all the time. I hurt for how I fear the blanks mean, but intellectually I have to insist to myself that I don't KNOW what the blanks conceal. I try to think they are positive things just unsaid, and intellectually I know both that more often than not, this is accurate, or at least that things aren't as bad as I would imagine, and also that it's NECESSARY for me to think such things. There are a lot of bridges of faith. I'll never reach what is on the other side if I don't risk falling and believe I can make it across safely. So, have pride when you took the step over the abyss and believed your foot would meet a solid hold because trust is the reflection of invulnerability.

I think I misunderstood.


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

senkora said:


> @*pied vert* - you're right, let's have pride in trying and saying what we mean and being true to ourselves.
> 
> I wanted to say also that I don't think you had a bad outcome... Silence can mean many things and I think so much of social anxiety is just how we fill in the blanks, what we're not told clearly. I struggle with this all the time. I hurt for how I fear the blanks mean, but intellectually I have to insist to myself that I don't KNOW what the blanks conceal. I try to think they are positive things just unsaid, and intellectually I know both that more often than not, this is accurate, or at least that things aren't as bad as I would imagine, and also that it's NECESSARY for me to think such things. There are a lot of bridges of faith. I'll never reach what is on the other side if I don't risk falling and believe I can make it across safely. So, have pride when you took the step over the abyss and believed your foot would meet a solid hold because trust is the reflection of invulnerability.
> 
> I think I misunderstood.


What do you mean by the last part?! What you said definitely meant something for me. I actually risked the respect I hold with this person to confront them precisely because I was trying to trust that it wouldn't end in personal catastrophe. You're exactly right, and it's nice to hear that motivation be validated. Thank you


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## a degree of freedom (Sep 28, 2011)

pied vert said:


> What do you mean by the last part?! What you said definitely meant something for me. I actually risked the respect I hold with this person to confront them precisely because I was trying to trust that it wouldn't end in personal catastrophe. You're exactly right, and it's nice to hear that motivation be validated. Thank you:


Totally ... I ... didn't have the time to read the replies you had made fully and after skimming some of it I thought I had gone off on a tangent that wasn't really related to what you were saying. Anyway your reply is thoughtful and gracious--thank you.


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