# Sexist advice I got from a pick-up artist



## Dead Inside (Nov 23, 2010)

.


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## Attica! Attica! (Oct 8, 2008)

Oh yeah, I just _crave_ being treated like crap. :roll


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Treating people badly (men or women) is never a good idea and plays only to those who are insecure enough to seek approval from someone else consistently. Anyone who wants someone who treats them badly has problems. Having a girlfriend or boyfriend based on fear is horrible. Still, I thought it was the case myself at one point so I don't blame people for thinking this way...


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## Lonely Hobbit (Aug 31, 2009)

The PUAs aren't sexist. They tell the truth.


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## Attica! Attica! (Oct 8, 2008)

ummm, huh.. I read the title as "sexiest advice" haha.. sorry, but I get extremely pissed when I hear about these douchy pick-up artists trying to psychoanalyze women. Especially this, where they're encouraging people to treat each other badly.. But, personally, I can't see how people can be so attracted to people they get into fights with all the time.. even if someone is really attractive to me physically, they instantly become unattractive to me if they turn out to be jerks. and I can't imagine any time that I would be less interested in a person as when I'm angry at them.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Dead Inside said:


> Hopefully people will read the whole thing and not take this the wrong way, I'm not saying all girls love bad boys... well, I kind of said that, but I was just trying to show my train of thought :um
> 
> I was (mostly) joking about wanting to try this approach on a girl
> 
> A lot of girls DO love bad boys, and a lot boys DO love bad girls, and I 'think' that a lot of others (myself definitely included) have a (possibly unhealthy) fascination with bad behavior in the opposite sex which we don't really want to admit.


Personally, I find a lot of those girls who like the "bad boys" are still giggling over MTV reality shows. I can't really think of another reason beyond a desire to fit in or to be accepted why anyone who want someone with negative attributes. Some people may confuse bad behavior with confidence but that often isn't the case, but in fact the opposite of what they think.


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

Dead Inside said:


> I'd kind of like to try it now&#8230; have a 'fake' argument with a girl and then blow it off and give her a compliment&#8230; see if it 'drives her crazy'


'Twould indeed drive me crazy, but not sex-crazy, that's for sure.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

I had a friend who was very successful with the ladies. One day we were sitting at a bar and he was flirting with the female bartender and said something that made her mad. When she walked away I said he screwed up and made her mad. He laughed and said he wanted to make her mad because if a woman likes you too much she won't sleep with you right away because she wants you to respect her and have a real relationship. But if she half likes you half hates you she will sleep with you on the first date and have just a sexual relationship.

Anyway, he did sleep with that bartender. So he seems to know what he's doing.


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

I can't speak for women (or for other men), but every girl I've ever been secretly in love with has been nothing but nice to me. A mean girl is an instant turn-off for me. There was one girl in 8th grade who would always insult me and taunt me, and I hated her even though she was good-looking. Later on in high school, she sat next to me in a class and she was nice to me. Only after she started being nice to me did I start fantasizing about having sex with her. So it wasn't the meanness that made me start liking her, it was the niceness. There were a couple of other girls who were always nice to me, and I liked them more because of it.


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

in a SA state all i can look forward to is getting approached by who can see past my SA. and more often then not, the once that look past my SA, have strong personalities. which means they will be dominating.... so to speak. i mean i don't get approached by the females i have interests in cus they are less gutsy. 

i agree with you cus i see the whole picture. i don't just get bothered by the word PUA. though not all PUA are the same. some are way out there. 

the PUA that i agree with is neil strauss ( i have his whole annihilation method kit - videos 1-7 plus bonus disc and bunch of his e-books). i also have tons of other books by a lot of other PUA's that i yet need to read. if you want any of them just let me know.

a side note: you will never convince a female this works. you just have to do it. i've never tried it before but i'm an observer.

if i look back to a GF that i got back when i didn't have SA (in 6-7th grade) all i did was to go after her and than ignore her. i just walked behind her... actually it was more of a dare from others that were saying that she was too hot for me. i just stared her in the eyes and smiled... and looked away. pretending to be memorized by other things. then i looked at her again and saw that she was interested by her not ignoring me. so then i knew at least i had a chance with her. after lunch, i followed her to her class and was saying stuff like "ey girl!... what's your name?" she would not answer but i keep insisting cus she had not ignored me earlier when i first had looked at her. so then i continued asking her questions.... and saying things like "wow! you have a nice body"... funny thing is that a clueless friend of mine was walking next to me and he had thought that he had figured out how to do this... so he blurted out all awkwardly... "heyy... have you been fuked before?" i just got a disgusted expression in my face right after that and let him know... he was the follower. the female heard me saying this i believe. so i followed her to her class and make her noticed that i had done that... next thing you know she's my girlfriend telling everybody this. come to find out she had a boyfriend so i dumped her and she wanted to take me back... which later on i did due to puberty getting the best of me. 

so i guess i was playing the game with out knowing back when i didn't have SA.


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## thewall (Feb 1, 2009)




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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

What about all those people who meet people whoa re nice and they get together? Do you think they *****-smacked each other and fell in love? I've seen tons of relationships of nice people and in the end they stay together because they are usually more understanding. You'll see many more breakups from people who aren't so understanding.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

thewall said:


>


What!? This isn't real is it?

never mind, i never seen that movie


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

> I've seen tons of relationships of nice people and in the end they stay together because they are usually more understanding.


talk is cheap!


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

tom cruise is followed by groupies... he also has money though.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> talk is cheap!


Your right. Look around at couples.


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## thewall (Feb 1, 2009)

zocr4t3z said:


> tom cruise is followed by groupies... he also has money though.


it's satire.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> tom cruise is followed by groupies... he also has money though.


What about the people without money who have dates and are also in relationships?


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

> Your right. Look around at couples.


oh so you believe i don't, instead of saying this or that, why don't you prove where you see these people... and do you follow them around?

to remind you so you won't fortget this is what you said..



> *I've seen tons of relationships of nice people* and in the end they stay together because they are usually more understanding. You'll see many more breakups from people who aren't so understanding.


also, include with the answer if you have ever been in a relationship and if she was nice.


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

> What about the people without money who have dates and are also in relationships?


what about them?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> oh so you believe i don't, instead of saying this or that, why don't you prove where you see these people... and do you follow them around?
> 
> to remind you so you won't fortget this is what you said..


I've worked with; known people personally, and have had opportunities myself to be in relationships. The girls were nice people and the couples I've known were also nice people. What evidence do you have beyond what propaganda tells you?

In either case, both realities can work. I won't deny that there are people out there who's main goal is to marry for money, etc, but is that the kind of relationship you want? Most the "PUAs" are guys making money. Their tactics probably do work but on what kind of girls?

I just wanted to get my point across. I don't feel like arguing this up for too long. You can get a date or girlfriend or w/e being a jerk but I don't think it'd be in your emotionally-best interest. GL with that.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> what about them?


You don't need money to have a date was what I was trying to say.


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

seems to me like you seeking approval what you want to do... i say stop seeking aproval and just go for it. if it is not your thing, stop doing it. 

no one is going to agree with you here that being a PUA is right to do for sure.


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

> I've worked with; known people personally, and have had opportunities myself to be in relationships. The girls were nice people and the couples I've known were also nice people. What evidence do you have beyond what propaganda tells you?
> 
> In either case, both realities can work. I won't deny that there are people out there who's main goal is to marry for money, etc, but is that the kind of relationship you want? Most the "PUAs" are guys making money. Their tactics probably do work but on what kind of girls?
> 
> I just wanted to get my point across. I don't feel like arguing this up for too long. You can get a date or girlfriend or w/e being a jerk but I don't think it'd be in your emotionally-best interest. GL with that.


so this is your explanation to back up the tons of nice people you have met. hmm.. okayyy! next!


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

> You don't need money to have a date was what I was trying to say.


oh... and when did i say one JUST needs money to have a date?

you know what... save it.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> so this is your explanation to back up the tons of nice people you have met. hmm.. okayyy! next!


w/e dude. gl


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

^like wise.


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

sounds like you are confused about want you want. eh... i tried. 

good luck.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

I'd agree. 

Although it has to be done with sensitivity. She won't sleep with you if you wish HIV on her whole family.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Anger to arousal? :eyes :stu I don't know.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

What I take from all this is the following:


Dead Inside said:


> They tease and have playful arguments ...


.
I think 'playful arguements' and treating people like crap are two different things but the two concepts get confused.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

I once worked with a bunch of PUA's and they asked me to come up with a PUA name for myself. I asked why on earth I would have to do that and why couldn't I just use my actual name. I interpreted the whole thing as halfways between wanting to sound cool and to cover up the crippling self esteem problem that basically said: "as I am in real life I am not attractive to women so I have to get rid of that persona and invent someone who goes by a different name". But each to their own and when in Rome and all that so I came up with: Milk And Two Sugars. They all looked very puzzled until I explained it: "because that's how I like my tea in the morning, baby".

PUAs are absolutely fond of over analyzing things and seeing patterns that aren't there. Very close to some people with SA actually. They happen to get with the girl they wanted to "seduce" (usually in a nightclub after she's had about four bottles of wine anyway and the lights are so dim that you look like Brad Pitt if you squint a bit) and they theorize that they got there because they did this or that. Now, that's an assumption and a guess but they believe it and they keep doing it and they re-enforce the belief system that their "techniques" work when it could be millions of different factors involved. I tried a variety of Pick Up approaches and very few of them worked at all because I didn't really believe in any of it. And without the self belief, these things aren't going to work. And seriously, you want to be the guy who gets his self esteem from how many women he sleeps with and how many STDs he managed to avoid this month?

*Yes. Many studies have proven this. Outgoing people react very badly to introverted people, there are many reasons for this&#8230; and it's rare for two introverted people to even start to form a relationship, because nobody initiates anything (and deep down, we are usually more attracted to outgoing people, which makes it even worse.)*

Erm...nope. Many studies have proven that people with SA really are as bad as they think/believe they are? Nonsense. Outgoing people? Who on earth are they then? Is an outgoing person outgoing if you put them in a box? People are not categories and you can't easily put them in them either. The idea that these "outgoing people" exist and that they automatically react badly to so called "introverted people" (so, is it like Jack and the Bean stalk where the outgoing giant smells the blood of the introverted Jack and reacts very badly indeed to him?) is daft. We can interpret and judge and assume about others and place meanings on their behaviours but we're not psychics.

It's rare for two "introverted people" for start of form a relationship? Nope. A person is not defined by having "introverted traits" any more than they would be defined by having "extraverted traits". People are fluid. And the idea that we're all automatically attracted to the so called "out going people" is a sweeping assumption. Classic SA thinking of people being in nice neat little categories, generalisations etc which is also, funnily enough, classic PUA thinking.

*We are probly going to meet more outgoing people in our lives than introverts, maybe because there's more of them, but mostly because they are the ones who do all the initiating&#8230; and we frustrate their expectations, so no, most of the people we meet are not going to like us (as long as we remain introverted, and for a lot of us, that will never change.) Depressing, isn't it? But, they say that recognizing the problem is the first step towards recovery... I 'think' the main hurdle is that we dislike/avoid confrontations, whereas outgoing people seem to thrive on them...*

Well, the assumption five minutes ago was that introverted people don't initiate anything and if they don't do that how are they gonna meet all these so called "out going people"? How are their more "outgoing people" than any other so called "type"? If an outgoing person suddenly displays introverted traits in a particular situation: which is he: outgoing or introverted? And the automatic assumption that it will be "the outgoing person who initiates all the time" is daft. We frustrate a dreamed up category of people's expectations? How do you know that and how do we automatically know what the expectations of this dreamed up category of people are?

So, as long as we remain introverted (assuming all or the majority of us actually are) people won't like us and the reason they won't like us is because of our apparent introversion? So, you're arguing that some sort of mass prejudice against people who are introverted goes on throughout the entire planet then? The conditioning of a couple of experiences, belief systems and generalisations aside...nope. People like or don't like people for lots of different reasons. Just the way it goes. And it's fluid and it changes. But the classic thinking of SA and the classic thinking of PUA too is that the individual is always at cause or fault. Oh, someone doesn't like me so it's my fault and I'm bad. Oh, someone finds me attractive so it's my fault because I seduced her.

Recognising a problem in the individual is a good step to healing. But "introversion" is not automatically the problem. You can't change yourself to try and make other people like you. That's their issue.

I say all that with the greatest of love and respect but someone who is introverted can become more extraverted and it works backwards too. As for the anger and arousal stuff...well anger would be a form of arousal but I haven't seen anything that would prove that the process of moving from anger to arousal wouldn't be in the same in a man as it would be for a woman and that stuff about whether she'd sleep with you on the first date or not is twaddle because again, the PUA is constantly putting what he does or doesn't do at full cause. As if he is somehow God. No, she has a choice, whatever state she is in and whatever is going on in her brain. If she values not being seen as a ****, then she isn't sleeping with you on the first date.

PUA: How good I feel about myself hinges on how many women want me to do them. So, in a room full of guys, I feel like crap.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> I once worked with a bunch of PUA's and they asked me to come up with a PUA name for myself. I asked why on earth I would have to do that and why couldn't I just use my actual name. I interpreted the whole thing as halfways between wanting to sound cool and to cover up the crippling self esteem problem that basically said: "as I am in real life I am not attractive to women so I have to get rid of that persona and invent someone who goes by a different name". But each to their own and when in Rome and all that so I came up with: Milk And Two Sugars. They all looked very puzzled until I explained it: "because that's how I like my tea in the morning, baby".
> 
> PUAs are absolutely fond of over analyzing things and seeing patterns that aren't there. Very close to some people with SA actually. They happen to get with the girl they wanted to "seduce" (usually in a nightclub after she's had about four bottles of wine anyway and the lights are so dim that you look like Brad Pitt if you squint a bit) and they theorize that they got there because they did this or that. Now, that's an assumption and a guess but they believe it and they keep doing it and they re-enforce the belief system that their "techniques" work when it could be millions of different factors involved. I tried a variety of Pick Up approaches and very few of them worked at all because I didn't really believe in any of it. And without the self belief, these things aren't going to work. And seriously, you want to be the guy who gets his self esteem from how many women he sleeps with and how many STDs he managed to avoid this month?
> 
> ...


That is why I usually say being too general about people is a bit off. I usually agree with what joinmartin has to say because he talks about both sides of the same coin. As a side note, a lot of these ideas are what gives someone their confidence. Having a more realistic view of things helps more than you may know. It is good to delve into things obviously.


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## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

I have read some of the PUA stuff and I think it's insane.

If some guy comes up to me and starts making negative comments about me or insulting me in some way I *HIGHLY* doubt I will be going home with that guy. More likely, I would wonder why the hell this random stranger hates me so much that he would want to insult me, and have a million thoughts in my head about what I did wrong. I would probably avoid that person from then on. ANy men that have been sarcastic or insulting before have been guys I totally avoided from then on. I didn't see it as flirting, nor did it make me want to sleep with them. It just made me dislike them greatly and made me feel bad about myself.


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## zocr4t3z (Nov 18, 2010)

^sindalle, that is a very bad respond! it does not make sense at all. but it is still a good try.


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## so_so_shy (Sep 5, 2005)

My friend treats girls like crap but he gets any one he wants. They all fall right in love with him, but when that happens he breaks it off. He was in a relationship with a girl for 6 years though and she left him for his friend so that experience likely contributes to the way he is right now.


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## AliBaba (Nov 16, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> ^sindalle, that is a very bad respond! it does not make sense at all. but it is still a good try.


So she explains how she would react under particular circumstances & it's a bad response :eyes What exactly was so hard to understand about what she was saying? It was clear and even elegantly expressed.

*Edit*: So I now first notice Brains McGee has been perma banned & I'm talking to myself. HAPPY THANKSGIVING!


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## commingout (Nov 25, 2010)

^ha! i was just trying to prove a point that angering a female is part of the love game! every chump should know this (who has ever been in a relationship)... the thing that not your average chump knows is that there is such a thing as "healthy anger". why do you think that when people fight and solve their differences the relationship becomes stronger? 

knowing how to healthy anger her is what a lot of sexually frustrated chumps is what don't know how to do. matter of fact, you even fell for it alibaba... i got your attention like i was going to get from sindelles (even spelled her name wrong on purpose)... i know my boundaries though, as to not insult peoples feelings, (hell i have been mentally abused all my life, so i understand that). then afterward healthy anger there would be a closer connection. 

but ah well, i guess the moderator in here who goes by mind games is an expert in relationships. he should be in one right now cus he knows what he is talking about. i least i have been in relationships before, matter of fact, i'm not in one right now cus i have other priorities. so mind games good luck with your wife, she must be a very lucky gal being with a such understandable guy LOL.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

commingout said:


> ^ha! i was just trying to prove a point that angering a female is part of the love game! every chump should know this (who has ever been in a relationship)... the thing that not your average chump knows is that there is such a thing as "healthy anger". why do you think that when people fight and solve their differences the relationship becomes stronger?
> 
> knowing how to healthy anger her is what a lot of sexually frustrated chumps is what don't know how to do. matter of fact, you even fell for it alibaba... i got your attention like i was going to get from sindelles (even spelled her name wrong on purpose)... i know my boundaries though, as to not insult peoples feelings, (hell i have been mentally abused all my life, so i understand that). then afterward healthy anger there would be a closer connection.
> 
> but ah well, i guess the moderator in here who goes by mind games is an expert in relationships. he should be in one right now cus he knows what he is talking about. i least i have been in relationships before, matter of fact, i'm not in one right now cus i have other priorities. so mind games good luck with your wife, she must be a very lucky gal being with a such understandable guy LOL.


Oh so now we are bringing up this "AFC" stuff? Please. So have you graduated from an AFC? Does that make you a pimp-daddy-cane now?

I've graduated from that years ago. I am now a super cool and uber sweet Megamac-daddy-peace with honors.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> ^sindalle, that is a very bad respond! it does not make sense at all. but it is still a good try.


Doesn't make sense? Maybe your just confused? Oh no, no, that can't POSSIBLY be the case....


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I believe PUA stuff is 50% good advice, 50% sexist misogynistic hogwash. I especially find the artist Mystery disgusting; I tried reading one of his e-books once, and was absolutely disgusted at how he talked about women.

If that's the type of guy that girls are going after, I'd say I'd rather die a virgin than change into that. Because my morals refuse to make me act that way. I'd rather kill myself.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

bwidger85 said:


> Treating people badly (men or women) is never a good idea and *plays only to those who are insecure enough to seek approval from someone else consistently*. Anyone who wants someone who treats them badly has problems. Having a girlfriend or boyfriend based on fear is horrible. Still, I thought it was the case myself at one point so I don't blame people for thinking this way...


golden.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Personally I think it's a bit misguided. All this stuff does is overcomplicate something I feel should be very simple. Drop the hate inside, somehow and just have fun. Luckily I been learning from a friend who is very positive when it comes to picking up women, who believes it's better to build a foundation than to "act." Treating women like crap isn't the way to go. 

I found recent success, all you have to know is just have fun and ask questions. Smile and laugh, show genuine interest. Don't worry how you appear, worry about how much fun you are going to have. You don't need any special lines, or anything special really. Say go up with a smile and say hi. Go from there. Don't expect anything except conversation.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

One of my friends who's good with women just said, "Feel out how you guys are reacting to each other. If you are on the same wavelength, and are reacting well, it's time to go to the next step." This is one of the smartest guys I've ever met (he's an intellectual and artsy type, who reads books on physics for fun...I honestly couldn't keep up with him in a debate.)

I tend to agree with him. Part of my problem (or 85% of my problem) over the years has been putting women I'm attracted to up on pedestals, and treating them differently than girls I'm not attracted to. This leads to our interactions coming out strained and non-relaxed. I can't imagine a connection forming in such an unrelaxed environment.

Whoever said dating was supposed to be fun was right. It's US that make it so difficult. If you put yourself down, or put her high up above you, how are you ever supposed to be equals?

Oh, and he said, "Tease her a little bit. Treat her like a bratty little sister, but tease in fun." I know I bust the balls (or non-balls) of my male/female friends, so this makes sense. Only, if she's attracted, she'll react well to the teasing.

And this goes for women, too. Don't put men up on pedestals. Nobody deserves to be on a pedestal, even celebrities. We are all human, we all do number two, and none of us deserve to be treated like we're perfect, because we're not.


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## commingout (Nov 25, 2010)

> Oh so now we are bringing up this "AFC" stuff? Please. So have you graduated from an AFC? Does that make you a pimp-daddy-cane now?
> 
> I've graduated from that years ago. I am now a super cool and uber sweet Megamac-daddy-peace with honors


yeah it depends how you view things, half empty or half full. i don't agree to everything the PUA say... there are some, to put it bluntly, idiots...just like in every other person trying to teach anything. can you believe there is such a thing as a boot camp where "teachers" try to make the kids get confidence by getting naked? yeah! what is my point you ask? you just take whatever you want from teachers and apply it to your beliefs. and that is not just from PUA... that's from everything.

so what i can take out of the pic up artists is nothing more then knowledge on how to understand the female mind... how it works. not because i want to sleep around with every groupie i can talk to (note: i have SA and have not tried these things myself, i'm just gathering knowledge when the time comes) but to find the right female that will last for the rest of my life.

so you don't look at things 4 dimensional .... like the doc from back to the future movie would tell marty."You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally!" Marty:"


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## commingout (Nov 25, 2010)

> I believe PUA stuff is 50% good advice, 50% sexist misogynistic hogwash. I especially find the artist Mystery disgusting; I tried reading one of his e-books once, and was absolutely disgusted at how he talked about women.
> 
> If that's the type of guy that girls are going after, I'd say I'd rather die a virgin than change into that. Because my morals refuse to make me act that way. I'd rather kill myself.


mystery has more of an alpha but charming personality. he started as a magician and he probably still is. so he has that people skills charms.

now neil strauss he has more of a gentle puppy personality (more of what a SA guy would understand... no offense, i consider myself soft in a SA state), yet he is a PUA. i believe he even came out in oprah tv show. he's like 5'6'' and very skinny. i believe he was a nerd/geek before... and he looked it too. there is a before and after pic on net somewhere. here it is..










now let me ask you this, what is the difference between a rock star and a PUA? besides one makes hella big money.


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## commingout (Nov 25, 2010)

*"Tease her a little bit. Treat her like a bratty little sister, but tease in fun."*

this is what PUA say but in an alpha way.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

commingout said:


> yeah it depends how you view things, half empty or half full. i don't agree to everything the PUA say... they are some, to put it bluntly, idiots...just like in every other person trying to teach anything. can you believe there is such a thing as a boot camp where "teachers" try to make the kids get confidence by getting naked? yeah! what is my point you ask? you just take whatever you want from teachers and apply it to your beliefs. and that is not just from PUA... that's from everything.
> 
> so what i can take out of the pic up artists is nothing more then knowledge on how to understand the female mind... how it works. not because i want to sleep around with every groupie i can talk to but to find the right female that will last for the rest of my life.
> 
> so you don't look at things 4rth dimensional .... like the doc from back to the future movie would tell marty.


The female mind? It is much like yours-human. What makes the idea that there is a difference is the media and other insecure/inexperienced kind of people justifying for something they don't understand fully. These are some of the reasons why the belief that men and women differ SO greatly are held in place. All it takes is someone to say "this is not the case" and it will not be the case, but then you have those who go around saying "this is the case" and to them it is.

Sure, women may think a bit differently but no more than someone who is a DIFFERENT SITUATION would, but this doesn't mean that women have some illogical mindset that differs greatly from men. The truth is that men and women go through life differently and therefore experience life in a different way, which is another reason why there seems to be an indifference. Just realize that if men were put in the same situation as women and vise versa then we'd most likely understand each other more. Instead, people go around saying how much different we are simply because we are forced to go about life differently. It may change how someone views life but ultimately doesn't change the core emotions of fear, anxiety and desire.

I believe that given the same life circumstances, men and women wouldn't differ much beyond anatomy and possibly chemical changes. Do chemical changes mean much? Yes, to a degree, but I don't think it has such a great impact to seperate men and women as, "Men are from Mars and Women from Venus" crap. Remember that males started off as women in the uterus and at any given point could change our anatomy by increasing estrogen levels to become female! Women can also add enough testosterone levels to produce a "larger" penis (the clitoris) and develop testes. Given this information, what makes you think that we are THAT much different? We aren't, so stop hindering yourself believing in someone else's money-scam and propaganda BS. Believing in false information is more damaging than useful in the long run. You may have some that agree but remember what mind state you were coming from before you gained some declaration from this information and what mind state the agreer was coming from when they came upon the same information-most likely a confused and insecure state.

Life is messed up on many fronts but there is a reason why there are happy marriages out there and why relationships are a healthy thing if the people go about them in a healthy manner, and that is because people are made to be together in the sense to procreate and survive. If that wasn't the case then there would be more likely a reason to be different both physical and emotionally.


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## commingout (Nov 25, 2010)

> *The female mind? It is much like yours-human. *What makes the idea that there is a difference is the media and other insecure/inexperienced kind of people justifying for something they don't understand fully. These are some of the reasons why the belief that men and women differ SO greatly are held in place. All it takes is someone to say "this is not the case" and it will not be the case, but then you have those who go around saying "this is the case" and to them it is.


yeah they are the same gray matter but their thinking is different. when have you agreed with a female,... beside due to trying to get in her jeans?. you over simplify it, by this definition every male can go around with any human, but that is not the case. for one there is such things as values... ahem! or penis size... there are females (or the majority) who like them really big. i say this cus most guys are insecure in this area.



> Sure, women may think a bit differently but no more than someone who is a DIFFERENT SITUATION would, but this doesn't mean that women have some illogical mindset that differs greatly from men. The truth is that men and women go through life differently and therefore experience life in a different way, which is another reason why there seems to be an indifference. Just realize that if men were put in the same situation as women and vise versa then we'd most likely understand each other more. Instead, people go around saying how much different we are simply because we are forced to go about life differently. It may change how someone views life but ultimately doesn't change the core emotions of fear, anxiety and desire.


you just switched it around on me, or we are talking about two different things. everyone knows that males have a penis and females a vulva. and everyone knows that the males are skirt chasers... or are the ones who approach to put it nicely.. and females are pickers... they decide who to accept in their lives. but in modern society what they fail to do is know what comes after that. so my point is that they think differently regarding finding their other half. so that is true and obvious. though we do suffer the same when it comes to emotions. but that is another subject.



> I believe that given the same life circumstances, men and women wouldn't differ much beyond anatomy and possibly chemical changes. Do chemical changes mean much? Yes, to a degree, but I don't think it has such a great impact to seperate men and women as, "Men are from Mars and Women from Venus" crap. *Remember that males started off as women in the uterus and at any given point could change our anatomy by increasing estrogen levels to become female!* Women can also add enough testosterone levels to produce a "larger" penis (the clitoris) and develop testes. Given this information, what makes you think that we are THAT much different? We aren't, so stop hindering yourself believing in someone else's money-scam and propaganda BS. Believing in false information is more damaging than useful in the long run. You may have some that agree but remember what mind state you were coming from before you gained some declaration from this information and what mind state the agreer was coming from when they came upon the same information-most likely a confused and insecure state.


not i, i started as a male in the uterus. ok, if you don't know your gender that's find and i respect it, but i am a male.



> Life is messed up on many fronts but there is a reason why there are happy marriages out there and why relationships are a healthy thing if the people go about them in a healthy manner, and that is because people are made to be together in the sense to procreate and survive. If that wasn't the case then there would be more likely a reason to be different both physical and emotionally.


nobody is arguing this, at least i am not. get back on track and remember that you are against PUA cus you believe they are degrading females. so what you are trying to say is that a PUA cannot get with a female where he will be happy and so will the female?


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

Okay, hopefully my last thoughts on this whole thing:

I'm well aware that the main underlying drive for all this PUA stuff is _that _drive. And that drive is _normal_. Pretty much everyone wants to have and enjoy what they feel is their fair share (be it one person or not, whatever) of interaction and "knowing in the biblical sense" of the opposite sex. _Of course. _

I've read the PUA stuff, the books, read some online stuff, etc. Everyone needs tips and techniques for approaching and mingling with the opposite sex, talking to them, and getting to know them in the "good book sense". That too is normal. As long as no one is lying to anyone, by that I mean promising them the world, telling them they love them when they don't, or leading someone who they know wants a long term relationship to believe that is what they want to when they don't, and so on, well, I suppose whatever works.....

But here's the thing with the PUA community:

They don't lie, but nor are they honest about what they really think, because here is what they do:

They pay lip service about respecting women, loving women in this sort of wishy-washy hands across the world sense (that doesn't really mean anything), that they love femininity, the way women smell, etc etc. and then they will also state in the same material that women are obtuse, stupid, gullible, duplicitous creatures with whom you must play games to get what you want. And they state this as if these characteristics are the exclusive territory of women. And by women, they don't mean just women in the upper east side, or women in the mid west, or just blonde blue eyed women. They say "women are like this and that" and they are talking about ALL women.

Now, does this make PUAs bad and evil? No. What they're doing is slipping by people's bull****ometers (and this is where things like needy, unconfident, vulnerable come into play. Everyone's BS meter is at varying degrees of strength according to how they have developed emotionally, in their sense of their own worth and so on). What they are doing is _saying_ I think you're great, I respect you, you're the only one worth my attention here tonight, you're special, and so on, but what they're thinking is _"I think you're stupid, I think you're a gullible, silly, game-playing creature and I can't believe you're falling for this crap"_.

Is that lie? Not exactly, but it isn't being honest either.

My next point. Is it necessarily a bad idea to "be with someone in the biblical sense" even if they think you're stupid? No! Not necessarily. Let's face it, would you spend some time that way with someone even if you knew they thought you were stupid? Maaaaybe.....if they were hot enough, and had enough other traits that made them attractive enough to you and that's not necessarily a bad thing either. I just wouldn't recommend getting serious about them. and of course it's enough for plenty of people to be repulsed by them.

Okay, so there's that point about PUAs. Here's another: they are arrogant. Is it horrible and evil to be arrogant? No. As long as that kind of high "self esteem" doesn't trip over what sometimes is a fine line between arrogance and what can be kind of psychotic behaviour, narcissism and the like. Unless you yourself have a VERY strong sense of identity and perhaps some arrogance of your own, I would not recommend getting together with them. People who have some neuroses and self doubt like pretty much most people do, make better partners because they are circumspect and thoughtful about their own behaviour.

Okay, so taken what I"ve said above, does this make PUAs the scourge of all womankind, and terrible shallow people who should rot in hades? No. But it does make them ***holes. It's ***hole-ish behaviour. However, most of them seem unable to admit to this. They can't accept that they are indeed being angry toward all women for whatever slights they feel they have been made to endure, and that they are being fairly jerky.

However again, the world is full of ***holes of all kinds, some much worse. And we all need to learn how to deal with them.

And what hopefully is a final note: There is nothing wrong with thinking up strategies for opening conversations, using wing-men - that is, getting friends to help you engineer a social situation to help you approach someone you like the look of. Everyone does that.

It's just that in this case, all that good useful stuff comes with a label that also happens to come with other, much less palatable things. And so, people jump in and criticize the whole ball of wax. But then, if you were given a bag of hazelnuts, and you love hazelnuts but 50% of the nuts in the bag were all liquidy rotten and soft, and had been rubbing up against the good ones that were still crunchy and delicious, you'd still be likely to throw away the whole bag. And rightly so, if that's what you prefer. Or, you can dig through the disgusting mess and pick out and rinse off the ones that are still good.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

commingout said:


> yeah they are the same gray matter but their thinking is different. *when have you agreed with a female,... beside due to trying to get in her jeans?*. you over simplify it, by this definition every male can go around with any human, but that is not the case. ahem! for one there is such things as values... or penis size... there are females who like them really big. i say this cus most guys are insecure in this area.


I agree with women all the time. I guess that is strange? Just because I talk to a woman or agree with a woman doesn't mean I'm trying to get into her pants. Ever heard of a conversation between two people?

If a woman doesn't like my penis she can go find a fake one for all I care. My penis isn't that small to make a difference and I'm sure most men's aren't.



> you just switched it around on me, or we are talking about two different things. everyone knows that males have a penis and females a vulva. and *everyone knows that the males are skirt chasers... or are the ones who approach to put it nicely.. and females are pickers... they decide who to accept in their lives.* but in modern society what they fail to do is know what comes after that. so my point is that they think differently regarding finding their other half. so that is true and obvious. though we do suffer the same when it comes to emotions. but that is another subject.


Wrong. Women can be and often do "chase" men. Just because they aren't chasing you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Men also decide to accept who they they want in their lives. Women do know what to do after they choose someone and that is: what ever the heck they want to do. What really dictates why people (men and women) go about courting differently depends more on what the individual wants rather than what a specific sex as a whole does in general. It also depends on a variety of factors ranging from attractiveness to money (probably a bad example for you to use against me) to religion, etc, so it varies depending on the person. Also, contrary to what you may believe, all women do not go about the same things in the same way and neither do men.



> not i, i started as a male in the uterus. ok, if you don't know your gender that's find and i respect it, but i am a male.


Well, the understanding is more "neutral" than anything. In the sense that males are males and female female upon fertilization is correct.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060729192640AAeckqU
(i realize it's a yahoo answer but bare with me)



> nobody is arguing this, at least i am not. get back on track and remember that you are against PUA cus you believe they are degrading females.* so what you are trying to say is that a PUA cannot get with a female where he will be happy and so will the female?*


Actually, I do think it can happen and both people can be happy, but I also think that the process of a male meeting a woman doesn't have to go this way for the same results.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

leonardess said:


> Okay, hopefully my last thoughts on this whole thing:
> 
> I'm well aware that the main underlying drive for all this PUA stuff is _that _drive. And that drive is _normal_. Pretty much everyone wants to have and enjoy what they feel is their fair share (be it one person or not, whatever) of interaction and "knowing in the biblical sense" of the opposite sex. _Of course. _
> 
> ...


I'll respond so your hazlenuts don't go rotten. :kma  (See, I've teased leonardess. Now she wants to sex with me)

I'll agree alot of them are arrogant bitter asses. But guys don't generally grow up learning about relationships and playing marriage the way girls do. So I think we are behind the curve when it comes to socializing with the other sex. In the absence of this type of education for young boys, the PUA thing has sprung up. Its an attempt to try to take control of a situation they felt powerless in. Sometimes these guys go overboard when they finally mastered themselves. They might keep their true opinions of a woman to themselves.However I don't think its really any more shallow though than wanting to date a man because he is rich, famous, or popular.

I was with a group of women the other day and one tells about how her friend was dating Alec Baldwin. They all proceeded to relay how they would date him and what they would do while dating him. But how many would be honest and tell him they like him just because he is a movie star?

I think the same game is played on both sides. Only the PUA are new to it so it seems unfair. I think the next evolution will be female PUA.


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## AliBaba (Nov 16, 2005)

zocr4t3z said:


> after lunch, i followed her to her class and was saying stuff like "ey girl!... what's your name?" she would not answer but i keep insisting cus she had not ignored me earlier when i first had looked at her. so then i continued asking her questions.... and saying things like "wow! you have a nice body"


Mmmm.....I can see how you do it.



commingout said:


> you even fell for it alibaba... i got your attention like i was going to get from sindelles (even spelled her name wrong on purpose)


Touche & well played sir! You completely fooled me into thinking you were a man with a bottom dwelling IQ and/or a questionable grasp of the English language. Then, out of no where(BAM), you're_ Don Juan Delanooch.

_


commingout said:


> i least i have been in relationships before, matter of fact, i'm not in one right now cus i have other priorities.


:lol Indeed! I myself have always said time management is more important than anything. This way you have the opportunity to post extensively on the SAS Relationship Forum for instance.


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## sacred (May 25, 2009)

i find these puas to be hilarious. if i was actually in a room with one while he was working his magic id kill the vibe in the room and nobody who be getting laid because id be cackling so hard.

almost all puas have this femish quality about them which makes them really easy to intimidate. every time his "game" is at work i just look directly at him and start laughing and then get up and start doing a bunch of unpredictable body movments and ask what do you make of this playa? and then GET THE **** OUT OF HERE BEFORE YOU GET THE WORST BEATING OF YOUR LIFE! muhahhahaha!


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

*Since a certain troll keeps intruding into this thread it is now closed.*


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