# new antidepressant to be released in fall 2012



## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortioxetine


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

Not bad


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Holy crap it has a high affinity for 5-ht1a and 5-ht3. So judging by the pharmacology it's main binding site is to block serotonin reuptake, it's next goal is to antagonize 5-ht3 and then it becomes a near full agonist of 5-ht1a. 

This has some insanely high potential, if of course the side effects aren't bad.


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## MsDaisy (Dec 27, 2011)

calling all guinea pigs.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

Maybe id be on this if I waited 6 months. I've not started any medication but might do soon (10mg fluoxetine)


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

kehcorpz said:


> This has some insanely high potential, if *of course the side effects aren't bad.*


Having tried over 30 "wonder drugs" & having seen how clinical trials are highly biased, I'll believe it when it see it. I've regularly complained how there is no such thing as a double-blind trial. With the blatant side effects of many drugs it would be difficult to not differentiate between the real thing & placebo, thus tossing out any blindness & replacing it with the bias of knowing you got the real thing.



> The most common side effects reported with vortioxetine are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, and dizziness.[2][3][5]
> *Incidence of **sexual dysfunction** is reportedly lower than with venlafaxine*.[4]


For anyone not aware of how SSRIs & SNRIs get such low reports of sexual problems on their official FDA-approved labels, it's done by way of lying, at least lying by omission. Having done a clinical trial I know the BS ways big pharma fails to ask about the obvious. They'll ask idiotic questions about whether the pill causes flatulence (I'm not kidding), but never will they ask about sexual function. Apparently, they're prudes living in the Victorian era where such matters are not spoken of. I'm sure they're also deeply concerned about you being comfortable and thus avoid prying into such private matters.:roll That or they don't want to know & pray you don't report sexual problems without being promoted by specific direct questions on the various aspects of sexual function. Even the FDA demands drug makers put in a disclaimer that says such numbers are likely lower than reality due to reluctance of patients & doctors to discuss sex. ("Reluctance" = trial designed & paid for by drug company intentionally leaves out questions to which drug company doesn't want the answer.) Though "Does it make you fart a lot?" is a fine question, seeing how they damn well know none of these drugs do. Sex -- AVOID! -- as they damn well know it's a HUGE problem with SSRIs, SNRIs & most other ADs.

As for less sexual side effects than Effexor (from wikipedia I quoted), that's not saying much. So it's less bad than something really bad. Sort of like saying I'm glad they only stabbed me with a dagger, rather than running me through with a sword.



> July 2011, Lundbeck published the results of a *double-blind**,*


Already covered how double-blind is total BS.



> Similarly, in May 2012, Lundbeck published the results of a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial with duloxetine evaluating vortioxetine in elderly depressed patients, and it was *found superior to placebo*, with fewer side effects than duloxetine.[5]
> In May 2012, Lundbeck disclosed the results of three phase III clinical trials, showing Vortioxetine's *superiority over placebo* according to the MADRS.[2]


So it's more effective than a sugar pill. More efficacious than nothing at all doesn't exactly set the bar real high, does it.

If I sound cynical, it's because I've seen this so many times before that I know how the story ends.

My opinion: anyother expensive pill for docs to throw at you before giving you the "good stuff." Good stuff being defined as controlled substances.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

UltrashyGuy. I saw your post on all the drugs you have tried and the reason for your problems is because SSRI's alone will stimulate 5-ht3 and other 5-ht receptors that are not implicated in depression but more so with issues. This is why I take Mirtazapine with my SSRI to antagonize those bad 5-ht receptors. I've done SSRIs on their own and yes they suck. 

I've never seen a drug that doesn't ask about sexual function in the event that it's thought that there may be any chance. I have access to the drug database and see all the monographs, they do ask this information. It's not fabricated as it's very stringently controlled. I think what people fail to realize is that 2% may seem like a small number so they assume they will not be part of that group. But if you have 1,000,000 people take that's 20,000 people that will more than likely be effected. These studies are done on random samples, it could be that a specific target audience may be more prevalent to side effects. You need to weigh the good over the bad in a study. And for me my meds work so I'm happy, there's no doubt that they work. You need to take some control over your meds because your doctor should not dictate your therapy alone but it should be done together. So like I said you will not see results with just an SSRI you need something like remeron to augment it.

Anyways what makes this drug unique is that it's sort of like my remeron/zoloft combo packed into 1 pill.


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

Idk what they mean by "serotonin modulator and stimulator" but this one seems to me mainly a SRI, thus non selective.


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## misread (Dec 12, 2010)

5ht1a agonist and 5ht3 antagonist..that is similar to lemon oil and ginger.


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Holy crap it has a high affinity for 5-ht1a and 5-ht3. So judging by the pharmacology it's main binding site is to block serotonin reuptake, it's next goal is to antagonize 5-ht3 and then it becomes a near full agonist of 5-ht1a.
> 
> This has some insanely high potential, if of course the side effects aren't bad.


Can you go into details about how 5-ht3 antagonism improve 5-ht1a ?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

JohnG said:


> Can you go into details about how 5-ht3 antagonism improve 5-ht1a ?


Well the drug itself states that it is a partial to full agonist of 5-ht1a. I got that from the pharmacology based on its affinity values. So the drug already does this which I find unique. Now, you can still achieve indirect action on 5-ht1a by combining an SSRI with a drug like Remeron which antagonizes 5-ht3 and other receptors. When remeron is bound to the postsynaptic cells serotonin is no longer able to bind to them so it's available in the synaptic cleft to target other receptors. So if you're blocking almost everything except 5-ht1a you know this is going to get the most activity.


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Well the drug itself states that it is a partial to full agonist of 5-ht1a. I got that from the pharmacology based on its affinity values. So the drug already does this which I find unique. Now, you can still achieve indirect action on 5-ht1a by combining an SSRI with a drug like Remeron which antagonizes 5-ht3 and other receptors. When remeron is bound to the postsynaptic cells serotonin is no longer able to bind to them so it's available in the synaptic cleft to target other receptors. So if you're blocking almost everything except 5-ht1a you know this is going to get the most activity.


True


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Holy crap it has a high affinity for 5-ht1a and 5-ht3. So judging by the pharmacology it's main binding site is to block serotonin reuptake, it's next goal is to antagonize 5-ht3 and then it becomes a near full agonist of 5-ht1a.
> 
> This has some insanely high potential, if of course the side effects aren't bad.


:um:um:um


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

side effect wise it sounds like effexor, doubt its anything overly special :/


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

bump - anyone have information on whether or not this drug is still to be released this year?


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

No. It was found to not cause sexual dysfunction, therefore they decided not to release it.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> No. It was found to not cause sexual dysfunction, therefore they decided not to release it.


something like that would happen. ha.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> something like that would happen. ha.


Hey, I'm pretty good at forming conspiracy theories. What if antidepressants are a form of population control? eh? eh? Eh?

Less sex = less people.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Hey, I'm pretty good at forming conspiracy theories. What if antidepressants are a form of population control? eh? eh? Eh?
> 
> Less sex = less people.


less people = less depressed people

Antidepressants do work!


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

SNDRI on the way


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Finally the first SNDRI, I'll be trying that one fo' sho'! Hopefully it's available before 2015 :um


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> Finally the first SNDRI, I'll be trying that one fo' sho'! Hopefully it's available before 2015 :um


Hope you're still around on the boards when it comes out. I'd like to know if you get any side effects like your penis melting off. If not, I may give it a go!

It does sound promising but nothing we can't do today with multiple pills hehe.


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## areq1987 (Jul 10, 2010)

When vilazodone will be available in EU's market?


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## blue the puppy (Jul 23, 2011)

after trying about every other medicine available, maybe this will finally be the one that works for me :roll


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

areq1987 said:


> When vilazodone will be available in EU's market?


vilazodone is nothing special. an ssri plus buspirone and BAM you have vilazodone.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Hey, I'm pretty good at forming conspiracy theories. What if antidepressants are a form of population control? eh? eh? Eh?
> 
> Less sex = less people.


LOL. The strange thing I have noticed about my anti-depressant is that it causes my sex drive to fluctuate randomly. Sometimes I can't even get hard to save my life and other times I'm so horny I can go 3 times in an hour. BTW what class is this new drug in?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ThatOneQuietGuy said:


> LOL. The strange thing I have noticed about my anti-depressant is that it causes my sex drive to fluctuate randomly. Sometimes I can't even get hard to save my life and other times I'm so horny I can go 3 times in an hour. BTW what class is this new drug in?


The main one in the thread is an SSRI I would imagine. The other one mentioned is an SNDRI which would be much better. But who knows if they will even be approved.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

swim said:


> SNDRI on the way


At higher doses, around 300 mg doesn't effexor act on dopamine as well? That's what I've always read and that was my experience.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

istayhome said:


> At higher doses, around 300 mg doesn't effexor act on dopamine as well? That's what I've always read and that was my experience.


yeah, it does, and so does pristiq.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

istayhome said:


> At higher doses, around 300 mg doesn't effexor act on dopamine as well? That's what I've always read and that was my experience.


Zoloft as well. Anything over 200mg will have an appreciable effect but 300mg is when you really notice it.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

the thing that is interesting about the first drug mentioned in the post, vortioxetine, is that is has a different mechanism of action than the other ssris flooding the market, much different than that of vilazodone which is probably the one that strays the most from the drugs currently on market and it doesn't stray far. combine that with the prospect of it potentially being released in the fall of this year and it's a bit exciting. 

the sndri won't be on shelves for years and will likely be quite activating in nature depending on how hard it hits NE and DA. that said, i can't even handle fluoxetine/prozac, an ssri, as it's too activating for me, nor sertraline/zoloft, but sertraline has very mild DA activity.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

basuraeuropea said:


> yeah, it does, and so does pristiq.


Where did you read that ?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

SNDRI lol
That sounds awesome


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

blakeyz said:


> Where did you read that ?


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/318/2/657.long#sec-6


> Competition of DVS for the binding of [3H]WIN-35,428, a known selective DA reuptake inhibitor, *only showed inhibitory activity at high micromolar concentrations (>10 μM).* Based on these assays that were performed to evaluate the binding interaction of DVS, this weak binding interaction would suggest that no functional consequence on dopamine levels would occur at concentrations required to inhibit hNET and hSERT.


http://journals.lww.com/intclinpsyc...ized,_double_blind,_placebo_controlled.4.aspx


> Similar to venlafaxine, desvenlafaxine inhibits the neuronal reuptake of both serotonin and norepinephrine and, to a lesser degree, the reuptake of dopamine.


it takes a hell of a lot of desvenlafaxine to touch dopamine, but it does at extremely high doses.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ive been on 300mg of Effexor in the past. Nothing special. Still a bunch of side effects. Trouble urinating and a sense of apathy remains as well at that dose.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...0d2-9d4c-386d361b8ae2/Nordea_NYC_June2012.pdf

according to lundbeck united states' june 2012 status report:



> Vortioxetine
> Expected launch 2013
> • Treatment of depression/anxiety with focus on improvement in cognitive symptoms
> • Partnered with Takeda
> ...


looks like it has a super short half-life if you have to take between 5 and 20mgs split four times a day.

http://investor.lundbeck.com/pipeline.cfm

still in stage III trials, lundbeck hasn't submitted a registration application.


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

basuraeuropea said:


> vilazodone is nothing special. an ssri plus buspirone and BAM you have vilazodone.


In order to have a wider choice of meds in Italy it would be desirable to have both pristiq and viibryd marketed here.
Don't hold your breath for vortioxetine, they didn't even make up a name for it so it's unlikely to hit the shelves before the end of the year, but if it does I want to be the first in line.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...0d2-9d4c-386d361b8ae2/Nordea_NYC_June2012.pdf
> 
> according to lundbeck united states' june 2012 status report:
> 
> ...


Man I hate taking pills split up in the day. I usually have my Wellbutrin, zoloft right beside my bed and I wake up and take them and don't have to worry for the rest of the day.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Man I hate taking pills split up in the day. I usually have my Wellbutrin, zoloft right beside my bed and I wake up and take them and don't have to worry for the rest of the day.


me, too. but this drug might be worth it. but your combo is working fine - mine isn't. i'm pissed it's not going to be released this fall because it looks like a neat drug to try even though lundbeck/takeda is totally sugar-coating the drug.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> me, too. but this drug might be worth it. but your combo is working fine - mine isn't. i'm pissed it's not going to be released this fall because it looks like a neat drug to try even though lundbeck/takeda is totally sugar-coating the drug.


I'd actually be willing to switch the zoloft for this one and keep the Wellbutrin. Mainly because Zoloft really has no antagonistic behaviour with 5-ht2c and 5-ht3. I found that when Mirtazapine worked and blocked these the increase in 5-ht1a was great. 5-ht1a is known for the oxytocin increases and I did feel more social on it. I was actually going to suggest my doctor add buspar but I hear so many anecdotal reports of it being a dud.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I'd actually be willing to switch the zoloft for this one and keep the Wellbutrin. Mainly because Zoloft really has no antagonistic behaviour with 5-ht2c and 5-ht3. I found that when Mirtazapine worked and blocked these the increase in 5-ht1a was great. 5-ht1a is known for the oxytocin increases and I did feel more social on it. I was actually going to suggest my doctor add buspar but I hear so many anecdotal reports of it being a dud.


it is a dud. major bioavailability issues.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

basuraeuropea said:


> it is a dud. major bioavailability issues.


Buspar also has really poor intrinsic activity apparently rendering it rather useless. The short half life is a problem too. I guess the good news of all of this is that Buspar being a dud does not inherently make all 5-HT1a agonists duds.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

jim_morrison said:


> Buspar also has really poor intrinsic activity apparently rendering it rather useless. The short half life is a problem too. I guess the good news of all of this is that Buspar being a dud does not inherently make all 5-HT1a agonists duds.


if there were only more of them available.

tandospirone may be promising but it isn't available outside east asia and also has a super short half-life. i don't think bioavailability or intrinsic activity are nearly as problematic as with buspirone, but i'm not sure.


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

List of 5ht1a agonists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azapirone

Now how reliable this information is I don't know. Nor do I know whether any of these are actually going through clinical trials, or whether there just a mix of research compunds. Iron recognize a few that are already on the market across the globe.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I'd like to know if you get any side effects like your penis melting off.


ar


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

istayhome said:


> At higher doses, around 300 mg doesn't effexor act on dopamine as well? That's what I've always read and that was my experience.


There are even claims it has less or even no sexual dysfunction at mega dosages. (450-600 mg per dag)


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Now I'm contemplating trying the high dose Effexor instead of my other combination.

What do you all think:

600 mg Effexor/day

or

20 mg Lexapro + 450 mg Wellbutrin + 45 mg Remeron

Both in terms of effectiveness for depression and sexual side effects. I have no intention to treat anxiety at the moment, nor do I care about side effects other than the sexual ones.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> Now I'm contemplating trying the high dose Effexor instead of my other combination.
> 
> What do you all think:
> 
> ...


Well 450mg Wellbutrin would do well on it's own. The remeron poops out quickly and all it maintains is some sedation if you take it at bedtime. Plus it raises TNF-alpha from what I read so may not help with sex drive. I am giving the 300mg of Wellbutrin 2 months. So far things are progressing but if I don't get the full removal of anhedonia which I had with zoloft/remeron for a few months then I will raise it.

I'd go for either 450mg wellbutrin or 600mg effexor.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

I definitely do need Serotonin for my depression. That's the most important of the big 3. So Wellbutrin by itself isn't going to cut it. I've already tried it by itself: anger, rage, irritability,... You'd be noticing it in my posts here rather soon :teeth


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> I definitely do need Serotonin for my depression. That's the most important of the big 3. So Wellbutrin by itself isn't going to cut it. I've already tried it by itself: anger, rage, irritability,... You'd be noticing it in my posts here rather soon :teeth


haha I keep forgetting that the Zoloft may be the only thing sparing me from this.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

I'm prone to it without anything causing it so it's not the best of ideas for me. I was pretty much violent on WB by itself.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

basuraeuropea said:


> if there were only more of them available.
> 
> tandospirone may be promising but it isn't available outside east asia and also has a super short half-life. i don't think bioavailability or intrinsic activity are nearly as problematic as with buspirone, but i'm not sure.


I think vilazodone and tandospirone have much better intrinsic activity, but unfortunately as you said one is not available outside Asia, and the other is really expensive.



Inshallah said:


> I'm prone to it without anything causing it so it's not the best of ideas for me. I was pretty much violent on WB by itself.


What about Modafinil? I wonder if the hypes true about it not producing the same negative effects as other stimulating meds.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

jim_morrison said:


> What about Modafinil? I wonder if the hypes true about it not producing the same negative effects as other stimulating meds.


Not used for depression as far as I know.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

It is good for atypical


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## SmoothSailing (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi Guys, 

I just joined because this was one of the first google searches for Vortioxetine. 

And I can find absolutely nothing on any experiences with it except clinical trials which nobody can really trust so thought I would give mine.

I have been prescribed this by my doctor, I have no idea how she got a hold of it, I'm living in the UK. The only reason I know it's even called Vortioxetine is the name on the tub with the loose pills she gave me was Lu AA21004 which according to Wikipedia, is the code name for this drug. 

The reason she gave me this, was I refused to start anti depressants again due to the harsh side effects, she then started discussing this drug. She said it has virtually no side effects for most people, and starts working extremely fast. She read me a few positive clinical trials and basically claimed this is a groundbreaking new drug which will eventually replace other anti depressants. I was kind of thinking, Bla Bla Bla, she obviously has been brainwashed by some pharmaceutical company and was very dubious over what she was saying. However I decided it was a worth a shot. 

She took my blood pressure and entered me into a database. She also gave me this chart which I have to fill in every 2 hours, yes every 2 hours.....to update how I am feeling on it.

I am a 24 year old male, with major depression and variable moderate to severe anxiety. I have tried Prozac, Venlafaxine and Cipramil, Pregablin. Xanax as well but that was only shorterm and more which I forget the names of. None really worked too well for me. Maybe venlafaxine to an extent but I was on a very high dose of over 300mg but it didn't exactly do anytihng significant.

Anyway I have been taking this drug for a week now. And what can I say, it has already changed my life in a way I never thought possible. It has transformed me into a social person again, I crave communication with others now, and although I still am anxious a little, it has probably reduced it to by 80-90% which is downright amazing. 

Regarding depression, it has also obliterated it. I used to be such a negative and unmotivated apathic person (yes 1 week ago!) and now my mind is bursting with positive thoughts and aspirations for the future. I can't really emphasise enough how much this has changed me in the best possible way.

It does have side effects though which are starting to subside now. Nausea, sweating and the inability to climax as easily during sex. But it is totally worth it, I could not say the same for the many past anti depressants I have tried.

Anyway, I may be just a success story with this drug and it may not work in this way for most people. But who knows huh?

It would be great if this drug ends up bringing such positivity to lives as much as it is doing to me.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

hmm...:sus


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## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

basuraeuropea said:


> hmm...:sus


What I was thinking to.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I wouldnt want to take a new drug which just came out. What if they find out 2 years from now that it causes kidney failure? Other antidepressant drugs have been taken off the market cause of later found out side effects, too. Taking something new is even riskier than taking something old.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

thundercats said:


> I wouldnt want to take a new drug which just came out. What if they find out 2 years from now that it causes kidney failure? Other antidepressant drugs have been taken off the market cause of later found out side effects, too. Taking something new is even riskier than taking something old.


just take it, thundercats. JUST TAKE IT !!!!


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> just take it, thundercats. JUST TAKE IT !!!!


Noh! :mum


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

@ultrashy, I remember you saying you haven't tried MAOI, yet you want controlled substances. If you haven't tried a MAOI and you have 32,000 posts, you seriously need to try a MAOI, they aren't dangerous. If you respond to amphetamines you need to try Parnate. Nardil is unbelievable for self-confidence and anxiety reduction when it normalizes. I've heard a lot of people make the MAOI like the last stand they will try after retiring every drug out there. Why? They were good enough to be a first option in 1960 or whenever, good enough now.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/771120


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Why is everyone so OC about the libido stuff? I i would even go to the extent of saying i like having less urge to bone members of the opposite sex, thinking about casual sex is bad for your creative thinking (i know, cracked told me! cracked would NEVER lie to me..) so yea. sex is cool too! win/win, right?


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Jawi96 said:


> Why is everyone so OC about the libido stuff? I i would even go to the extent of saying i like having less urge to bone members of the opposite sex, thinking about casual sex is bad for your creative thinking (i know, cracked told me! cracked would NEVER lie to me..) so yea. sex is cool too! win/win, right?


Cracked as today is. Cracked as tomorrow can be.


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

it's gonna be Brintellix, do you like the name?

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20130205/msgs/1037575.html


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

What happened with this one?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/syn.21531/abstract


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

vortioxetine might be better than agomelatine.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlam...lix-provide-insight-into-commercial-strategy/


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## Thorsten (Apr 6, 2010)

swim said:


> vortioxetine might be better than agomelatine.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlam...lix-provide-insight-into-commercial-strategy/


That's not saying much. Agomelatine has some studies behind it, but, anecdotally, all across the internet, it doesn't seem to work for many people, at all.


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## socialpiranha (Dec 9, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> What happened with this one?
> 
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/syn.21531/abstract


http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...-Enrollment-TRIADE-Advanced-Trial-Amitifadine


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## socialpiranha (Dec 9, 2012)

Thorsten said:


> That's not saying much. Agomelatine has some studies behind it, but, anecdotally, all across the internet, it doesn't seem to work for many people, at all.


Im optimistic about its novel receptor affinities, it is unlike anything thats been put out so far and its novel actions happen to correlate with recent findings in mdd and sad. melotonin really never was thought to be directly involved with depression or anxiety just sleep architecture. worst case scenario agomelotine is a placebo and brintellix performed significantly better than placebo which is more than can be said for most of the new drugs in development.

plus agomelatine was better in every respect to escitalopram in double blind comparative studies looking at effectiveness(for depression) sleep quality side effects and emotional blunting.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924933811723252

the pure ssri's have a very low success rate often not exceeding placebo, ago might be just a hair better but it wouldnt make a difference in anecdotal reports. maybe vortioxetine is just enough better that it will be worth a try.

what is the expected release date by the way?


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

socialpiranha said:


> what is the expected release date by the way?


It will be probably released in europe by the end of the year.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

socialpiranha said:


> Im optimistic about its novel receptor affinities, it is unlike anything thats been put out so far and its novel actions happen to correlate with recent findings in mdd and sad. melotonin really never was thought to be directly involved with depression or anxiety just sleep architecture. worst case scenario agomelotine is a placebo and brintellix performed significantly better than placebo which is more than can be said for most of the new drugs in development.
> 
> plus agomelatine was better in every respect to escitalopram in double blind comparative studies looking at effectiveness(for depression) sleep quality side effects and emotional blunting.
> 
> ...


You're splitting too many hairs for me to count. The snri's made my life much worse. So these at very best will be expensive right off the shelf and do nothing to me. Altogether a net-loss.


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## Spungo (Jul 30, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Well 450mg Wellbutrin


I had phantom stomach and intestinal pain just by reading this.
150mg = stimulating and I highly recommend it
300mg = energy draining because my guts hurt and I just want to lay down
450mg = I would probably kill myself just to end the pain caused by taking that much



> @ultrashy, I remember you saying you haven't tried MAOI, yet you want controlled substances. If you haven't tried a MAOI and you have 32,000 posts, you seriously need to try a MAOI, they aren't dangerous. If you respond to amphetamines you need to try Parnate. Nardil is unbelievable for self-confidence and anxiety reduction when it normalizes. I've heard a lot of people make the MAOI like the last stand they will try after retiring every drug out there. Why? They were good enough to be a first option in 1960 or whenever, good enough now.


This is not directed at anyone on this forum: people are stupid. Very stupid. People refuse to take drugs simply because they legal. This is a bit of an exaggeration, but I swear the rates of meth and cocaine abuse would drop to 0 if they were legal. Example: a friend was tired and I offered him a caffeine pill. He said no because that's "gay" but he has no problem drinking coffee. I always offer my medications to people because that's initially how I found Celexa - my gf gave one to me and I felt much better. I've offered bupropion, trazodone, mirtazapine, citalopram, sertraline, fluoxetine, ephedrine, diphenhydramine (Benadryl), moclobemide, phenelzine, and tranylcypromine, but not a single person has ever accepted one. I have a pretty big stockpile of phenelzine that I likely won't use, so I offered them to a friend who is fairly depressed. He said no, he would rather stick to more conventional recreational drugs (cocaine and amphetamine). What the hell??

If Prozac became a schedule 1 drug and it killed people on a regular basis, people would jump all over that. "Dude I scored some Prozac! Let's go get antidepressed at my place!"


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