# One example of personality change via Schema Therapy



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Here is something that happened to me recently which has been a direct result of using schema therapy and identifying my schemas.

In the past, even when I was not experiencing any anxiety at all, it often seemed that I was 'out of synch' with people. I would join a group, and it just seemed like EVERYTHING I said was off somehow. I would dtart to feel that people just didnt like ME and I would start to get annoyed, totally unaware of why I was being so badly treated. Up until literally the other day I had absolutely no clue why this happens - until Thursday just gone.

I went to my leaving 'party' (really a few drinks) and my old boss, my supervisor and some guys from the old department came along. In the past, this would have been RIPE territory for me to reproduce the above problem - saying things that 'clanged' and feeling 'off' for no apparent reason. In fact, someone else filled that role - and suddenly I could see why it had plagued me for so long.

Here is the set up.

One of my schemas is 'Subjugation'. This is the sense that all your life you have been 'beneath' others, that you have no control or say in things. You feel powerless and down at heel. My coping response to this, as usual - was overcompensation. That is, fighting back and doing the opposite of what the schema makes me feel. This means demanding to be in control, needing to be noticed and seen as 'the top', etc. Being a rebel against things and general opinion. Another schema is 'entitlement' - which in a way is part of my overcompensation for feeling subjugated. I can act in a haughty, arrogant way and come across conceited and 'entitled' to things.

At the bar was my HIGHLY HIGHLY extroverted boss, my more subtle supervisor, a couple of workers from the department and one new guy - an old time friend of my boss who went wayyy back with him.

Now, I have a huge amount of respect for my boss because he has been a HUGE central plank of me overcoming my last episode of depression. He is also amazingly good at what he does, yet not big headed. However when he has had a few drinks, he teases a lot - thats his way of having a bit of fun and it is not meant maliciously - unless someone objects. Then he cant figure out why that person is getting annoyed - after all - its for fun in his view.

Now my boss was very much 'ruling the roost'. His sense of humour is amazingly fast and quick, but he loves getting on with peoiple which he does through his humour. Life around him is a rolling course of witticisms, and its like watching a comedy routine. And remember - he is also 'the boss'.

In the past I would have felt I needed to compete with that - to be just as funny, to be just as much the centre of attention - ENTITLEMENT. But in this case I just thought "hey he is my (ex) boss and I respect him, so I will give him room and just let him roll, instead of compete". Very often i would be speaking, and he would react off what I said with a story. It was actually hilarious - but in the past I would have felt he was 'stealing my thunder' - but this time I just rolled with it. I figured "ok, hes the centre of attention today and the conversation is rolling his way". I respected my position in the "conversational hierarchy" and when he teased, somehow people laughed at my comebacks. I couldnt understand why.

There was one of the guys there who is very technical. There would be this flurry of silliness from my boss, and then suddenly this guy would embark upon a long story that seemed to culminate in a random fact. It 'broke the flow' of what was happening EMOTIONALLY speaking. There was a dip in energy. He was talking technically about reproductive cycles in birds, where everyone else was using much more graphic terms. he got a little tease, but nothing bad. he didnt seem to take it well.

As the evening progressed, he kept coming back to things like that - and the way he did it seemed to come across as if he was placing himself at the centre of attention, which as already said was elsewhere. I realised that there was an unspoen acdceotance of where that centre of attention lay, and that by not paying attention to it he began to look arrogant. Then when he started to react badly to the teasing, it got worse and slightly more personal. He looked confused and became more and more entranched in his posotion. Suddenly all the times when Id been told to "quit while I was ahead" made sense - I had been that guy many times before. By the end of the night there was bad feeling towaqrds this guy - but because he had missed a real subtelty of communication.

Now I dont know what his reason was, but mine was because of my schema. I too would have felt the need to be the centre of attention as a compensation for feeling 'subjugated' (as well as defective and needing approval), and also would have taken the teasing badly. I would have come out with my own topics to try to 'steal the limelight' instead of just rolling with what was being discussed. I would have got hung up on driving my point home, to make them reverse thier opinion of me. The net result - exactly what happened to that guy.

What was different? I chose to let my boss be the centre of attention. I didnt NEED to be the centre and it was great fun listening to him. My words / stories acted as a foil for his playing around, and because I did not get all huffy about this, when he subsequently teased I was able to joke back and not look arrogant or haughty. I showed I was taking it as it was meant - as fun.

Even in the absence of anxiety, this PERSONALITY TRAIT is what would have tripped me up in the past. Not being able to let someone be momentarily 'higher' than me. Not being able to respect others good traits and roll along with them, Insisting others showed me nothing but respect. By having these demands, I in fact received the opposite almost all the time - except when I either WAS the centre of attention or the group I was with was much less attentive to one particularly dominant individual. Groups almost always form this kind of structure, and in the past, demanding that it be different has got me very depressed and upset. You must earn peoples respect, but I was demanding it. I wanted to be admired without showing others that I found them admiriable in some way first. Healthy people respond with reciprocity - and I had been ignoring this VITAL rule for all my life.

The same is true with my drum teacher. he is very humble and it would be easy to act arrogant with him - but I have chosen to keep the student / teacher dynamic and defer to him. He doesnt take advantage of that deference and that makes me respect him more, especially as he is an incredible drummer. In the past I would be at that "feeling off" stage by now. In fact, I will be going to a concert with him and his wife instead!

For me and my schema then, learning to respect implicit social hierarchy, and to not feel sunjuagted by it but simply 'being there', has been a big key to happiness and making relationships. But I could not have done that without breaking the schema. I would have been just like that other guy, clueless as to why he was being singled out. In my case that would have then meant depression, feeling angry at the group, reading a load of 'social skills' books that never even touched on this and feeling anxious the next time I saw them, culmnating in guess what - TRYING EVEN HARDER.

If you find you have overcome depression and anxiety, or are starting to, but your relationships still seem to go badly - then it might be worth looking into schemas to understand if there is a PERSONALITY TRAIT that is keeping you stuck. A great book to read is "Reinventing your life" by Klosko and Young, For me it has been truly inspirational. Thsi much Ive been able to achieve via self work only and it is only one small part of the whole, but it goes to show how powerful it is. Despite having been told numerous times in the past that I can be arrogant or selfish or childish, it took the work with schemas to see WHY I was stuck in this cycle. Now I can see it, I can break it. No need for social skills training and 'techniques' - now I can see the way personality meshes with human interaction, suddenly everything is easier. *That, IMO, is why some people seemingly breeze through life and others struggle - because those struggling literally cannot see what is right in front of their faces. Schema changes that. Thank you schema inventors!!*

Ross


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Woohoo! Nice tale. It's really helpful to see the details elaborated on in this post. This seems like a very significant moment for you, so it's a good experience to note and go back to often.

Brief question... Since you've been dealing with your experiences with multiple schemas, are you able to maintain your focus on multiple schemas at once?

At least so far, it seems like I am kind of limited at looking at one at a time. Perhaps with additional practice, my recognition will become more effortless and natural, and then that would lead to easily focusing on multiple schemas at once. I think my coping mechanisms are usually more on the avoidance/surrender side with most of the schemas that seem relevant to me, but I'll watch to see how this changes if I'm in different situations.

Awesome story, again.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Ive been focused mostly on entitlement and Insufficient self control / impulsivity, which have a cross over together and a deep impact on my life, and so I picked these up. However I do catch moments where I can see others cropping up! Once you go through the experiential exercises (the "feel the x,y or z child inside of you" part) it becomes easier to pick them up in every day things! Mostly for example if I catch myself thinking negatively, I can say "oh thats my negativity / pessimism schema" or "thats my (little bit of) vulnerablity schema". An important one for me I realise is Abandonment, and I can see very clearly now the places it crops up. With most of these I am at "awareness" level - changing them starts with just noticing them come up each day and then choosing to respond differently as they crop up. It takes a long time to do, so thats why I was so pleased to see that shift I posted above. Some payoff!! 

Ross


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

In any case, sounds like it's some nice progress.

Chester... Rollerchester, rollerchester! Are you a fan of Drew Toothpaste? My brother has interacted with him many times in one of the forums he uses (lives here in Ohio).


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

awesome.



Makes a lot of sense to me.

Sometimes when I notice emotional changes to situations, I try to look at it objectively, instead of internalizing the emotions and losing focus. ( I read somewhere to try to be "one step" away from your emotions). Its great to be an observer of your thoughts and emotions and in this way you can help overcome so many things. Awareness is key.

Great post and great job, Ross! :squeeze 

I need to figure out my schemas now. :yes


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Your- ... 284&sr=8-1

I can moderately identify with about half of them, and a few seem to be significantly more dominant.

It's hard to rank them in order of strength (they are very close to each other, and the ranking I make now can shift from day to day). Here's what I'm calling the Big Five for me after tons of introspection:

1. Emotional Inhibition
2. Social Exclusion
3. Subjugation
4. Emotional Deprivation
5. Defectiveness


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

I read this the other day and keep thinking about your situation and how I would have reacted. I definately would have felt resentment for the supervisor and maybe tried to ignore his authority a bit, or just ignored him. I apparently have issues with people in authority, and I'm not happy to just be subordinate.
I do often try and turn the conversation round to my related topic rather than sticking with what is being said in the group. Interesting stuff.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

it is amazing - little things that feel so utterly natural and ingrained that its impossible to see that they might be the very things causing problems ... and instead we may blame other things for being rejected - others, what we look like, being boring ... this schema stuff is like someone following you around with a video camera and going "this is how the world really sees you" sometimes.

And it can be pleasantly surprising.


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

I read the book yesterday morning and realised I probably sabotage things so I fail e.g. avoided doing my PhD thesis by going on the internet, then complained and got miserable when it was a long painful process. I think I am avoiding preparing for interviews properly. I do a lot of work-but hold back practicing the delivery or learning fine details. Probably explains my lack of motivation for practicing interviews.


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## Pinzelhead (Mar 14, 2007)

A lot of peoples problems can be overcome simply by lowering one's level of pride and being forgiving rather than intensive and exasperating psychotherapy.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

deleted post.


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## jafka633 (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah, in relation to the previous post, I would say it's ego that needs to be deflated. I know because of my defectiveness/shame schema that I have a huge ego, because I constantly feel inferior to other people.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

Interesting. I hadn't heard of schema therapy before. I too am one of those people who tends to fight back. One thing I pride myself on actually is that I treat people equally, no matter what position of power they are in. If someone in authority is being a dick to me or someone else I call him out on it rather than just sit in silence - I don't question what anyone is going to think about me - I do what I consider to be the "right thing" at all times.
I honestly think we need more people willing to speak up rather than blend into the crowd, but there are also times when I just need to shut the hell up for my own good :lol I guess that's one of my Asperger-like traits (no, I'm not officially diagnosed, just to be clear) 

I am very rigid and see things in very black and white terms. I also can't handle all but the most gentle criticism. I have this internal voice that's always telling me I'm not good enough. 

Anyway, I liked the post. Always good to hear new ideas.


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