# UnOfficial World Cup 2014 Thread



## markwalters2

Check out this beauty. Any Brazilians here?


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## Ckg2011

Let's go Team USA!!! :banana:banana:banana


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## Shadow2009

I'm from Scotland but supporting Brazil. Fascinated to see if Neymar lives up to his potential.


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## Fooza

What defines a thread being unofficial as compared to official? I'm confused. 

Anyways, not long now for the first game and I can't wait for Saturday. 

Come on England


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## TheRob

Not bad...


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## Elad

lmao @ pitbull


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## Jammer25

The home cooking is not surprising. 

The country would legitimately riot if Brazil doesn't at least get out of the group stage, and the powers that be wouldn't want that kind of stain/controversy on the Cup. Terrible calls pale in comparison.


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## Elad

nice finish from oscar and good fight back from croatia, unlucky on that pen.

oscar motm imo.


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## minimized

Ugh Pitbull and J-lo, as bad as that penalty.

But hey, FIFA knows that if Brazil flops there's going to be egg everywhere with the state of things and Brazil spending 11 billion that could have been used to help people.


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## Folded Edge

Fairly good opening game. Over all Brazil deserved to win but the penalty was at best 'soft' but really it was pretty week, ie. shouldn't have been awarded. They still scored (technically - all the goals) but certainly Brazil scored 2 goals from open play. Roll on the rest :clap


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## Elad

moloko said:


> That wasn't a penalty and Croatia deserved the draw. Very weak goalkeeper though. Butter hands on the second goal and slow reaction time on the third.


It wasn't a penalty but that's football. There are sh*tty calls all the time in every tournament, in the end when you put your hands over the players shoulder you're taking a risk. Can't agree with "deserved" the draw, there was a lot of time left and constant attacking. Brazil were piling on the better pressure.

Its really disappointing to see so many people jumping to "oh wow guess its all fixed" and the like. As if this is something new in football, there are wrong/mistaken calls in pretty much every game played and every world cup. Great game by Croatia though, this is going to be an interesting WC.


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## Micronian

The referee went strictly by the book. There was a grab on the attacker, so it's a penalty. I think in other games a referee would let that slip, but this is the opening game of the world cup... 

About match fixing: the problem is that it has happened before, and has happened repeatedly. So why couldn't it happen again--especially at a tournament where the host is pressured to win, where the government has overspent public funds (and under-delivered), and is on the edge of an all-out riot if something positive doesn't happen.


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## Folded Edge

In a Lonely Place said:


> Also if the ref was going strictly by the book he should have sent off Neymar for use of the arm.


That's spot on. :yes

Also if the penalty was as certain as that, the ref should have given a Red Card, rather than the Yellow.


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## Fooza

Piss poor atmosphere, either that or the sound got lost somewhere and I coudn't hear much on TV.

Tomorrow Spain vs Netherlands, should be a belter


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## googleamiable

Elad said:


> It wasn't a penalty but that's football. There are sh*tty calls all the time in every tournament, in the end when you put your hands over the players shoulder you're taking a risk. Can't agree with "deserved" the draw, there was a lot of time left and constant attacking. Brazil were piling on the better pressure.
> 
> Its really disappointing to see so many people jumping to "oh wow guess its all fixed" and the like. As if this is something new in football, there are wrong/mistaken calls in pretty much every game played and every world cup. Great game by Croatia though, this is going to be an interesting WC.


agree. you could argue they deserved a result IF THEIR KEEPER HAD BEEN BETTER, so barring that one aspect, but he was in their team. the pen wasn't a pen, but as you say it happens.

a little word on diving btw, defenders cheat just as much as attackers do, and realising that awared me as to why attacking players feign so much. i noticed in live games i've been to, defenders dive, foul, lie to the ref, everything the strikers/midfielders do.

not to excuse it from attackers - i would prefer nobody was doing it, but i can understand that if theyre doing it to you, you should do it to them too.


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## googleamiable

In a Lonely Place said:


> You should probably watch it again, if that's a penalty we should be seeing most premier league games end with five-a-side.
> 
> Also if the ref was going strictly by the book he should have sent off Neymar for use of the arm.


neymar wasn't even looking at the guy, no way it was a red


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## googleamiable

Micronian said:


> The referee went strictly by the book. There was a grab on the attacker, so it's a penalty. I think in other games a referee would let that slip, but this is the opening game of the world cup...
> 
> About match fixing: the problem is that it has happened before, and has happened repeatedly. So why couldn't it happen again--especially at a tournament where the host is pressured to win, where the government has overspent public funds (and under-delivered), and is on the edge of an all-out riot if something positive doesn't happen.


they were saying the games most likely to be affected by match fixing are the meaningless ones, ie friendlies (scotland vs nigeria who knows), or if a team loses 2 of their group games, then the 3rd, with the lesser nations. to suggest the opening game with the host nation, brazil no less, could be fixed is, i'll say it slowly, c o m p l e t e l y a b s u r d.


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## Ckg2011

Good match, B.S. penalty kick though. Can't wait to see the Soccerroos play today.


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## Micronian

michael1 said:


> they were saying the games most likely to be affected by match fixing are the meaningless ones, ie friendlies (scotland vs nigeria who knows), or if a team loses 2 of their group games, then the 3rd, with the lesser nations. to suggest the opening game with the host nation, brazil no less, could be fixed is, i'll say it slowly, c o m p l e t e l y a b s u r d.


You haven't watched enough soccer--especially in south america. The federations and governments are capable of anything.

-in 1994 a colombian player got killed for making a drug lord lose a bet.
-in 2004 the coach of ecuador got shot for not playing the federation's president's son in a WCQ game.
-in 2009 a referee retired right after securing argentina an illegitimate goal, which qualified them to South Africa.
-1978: Argentina 6 - 0 Peru
-in CONCACAF, a trinidad official recently stepped down only after being proven he was corrupt
-Juventus a few years ago

oh, and so much more.

now, it may not always be "match fixing", but it's definitely some back-door corruption between either the teams' presidents, the regional federations, FIFA, or the referees. Heck, how else would Qatar get a world cup if they didn't throw money at the FIFA offices?

Now, I love soccer, but there's no way I can believe that everyone is playing fair when so many millions of dollars are involved between the host governments, sponsors, and FIFA themselves. You'd be living in a cloud if you believe nothing is happening in the background.


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## MiMiK

**** that ****! that was 3-0 not 1-0. stupid refs :wife


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## monotonous

netherland v spain baby


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## Elad

in for robben to wreck some spanish manlets.

spain have looked a little toothless lately, hoping for an upset.


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## Elad

^xabi took it i think, but costa was smart drawing contact the way he did

dat pass. dat header. delicious.


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## googleamiable

gonna contradict myself since i was defending strikers cheating on page 1, but damn that costa penalty annoys me, such a fake technically but not really a foul.

on a brighter note, we are watching some real quality in robben and iniesta. 2 of the best.


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## Folded Edge

moloko said:


> What a goal!  Let's go Netherlands!


Indeed - Van Persie's flying header, utter genius! :clap

That goal will be hard to top in the rest of the tournament. Bring on the 2nd half.

That was clever play winning that penalty too


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## googleamiable

robben, absolute class


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## Elad

ROBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBENNN!!!!

you balding beauty.


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## Canadian Brotha

A Flying Dutchman! Priceless! lol


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## Elad

goodnight sweet spain.


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## googleamiable

rip in pieces spain.

spain still have iniesta, one of the GOAT footballers, if he can turn it on like robben did this isn't over yet. big if though.


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## googleamiable

wat


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## Elad

come on spain, this is getting embarrassing.


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## Canadian Brotha

Flying Dutchmen! Great game this


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## starsfreak

Awesome game! That's why I love world cups so much!


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## googleamiable

not sure exactly why you take off costa at 2-1 down, i assume it's to not risk an injury or something. 

JEEZ. as i type robben beastmodes, 5-1. gotta tip your hats at this stage, robben has put in a 10/10 performance here.


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## Canadian Brotha

A Dutch Dismantling!


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## googleamiable

this feels like barcelona's 7-0 (was it 7?) aggregate loss to bayern in the semi's. end of an era for the war weary champions. 

They can still go through though if they beat chile and australia, can't write them off just yet. Chile is their big game now, on wednesday.


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## starsfreak

Great saves by Casillas there. He's the only one I feel sorry for!


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## Canadian Brotha

The Dutch are boxing here, they took a rough shot woke up, & now they're in the mood to dance


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## Elad

I think this has really been coming for spain, all their recent games have been very poor in terms of creating chances/scoring. Really getting found out tonight, could easily be 6-1.

Mindblown at torres getting on ahead of villa, llorente and negredo must be watching this shaking their heads.

dutch demolition. robben and persie went in dry.


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## googleamiable

on his day robben is up there with anyone you can think of, he's that sort of player. he played like this vs dortmund in the CL final. big game player. 

as far as i'm concerned, spain should build their team around iniesta the way holland do with robben, the way barca do with messi. iniesta is as good, or possibly even better. 

for today though very well done holland.


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## Folded Edge

WTF!!! That was insane  Spain didn't just lose, they were destroyed! We may well have just seen one of the main contenders in the Dutch. What a game 

The bookmakers just made a f***ing fortune worldwide. 

Still well interested in seeing how Belgium does though.


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## Ckg2011

Folded Edge said:


> WTF!!! That was insane  Spain didn't just lose, they were destroyed! We may well have just seen one of the main contenders in the Dutch. What a game
> 
> The bookmakers just made a f***ing fortune worldwide.
> 
> Still well interested in seeing how Belgium does though.


 Spain got destroyed for sure. That is insane. :yes


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## Fooza

That RVP goal surely already a contender for best goal. What a header and a ball from Blind. Robben was just immense, simply unplayable. Van Gaal showing what a top manager he can be, can't wait to see him in the premier league. 

England vs Italy tomorrow, bring it on, another 5-1 would be nice. :b


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## Canadian Brotha

What a beginning to this World Cup, we're gettings goals & the atmosphere is coming through hot & clear


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## 161

Ckg2011 said:


> Good match, B.S. penalty kick though. Can't wait to see the Soccerroos play today.


why specifically the socceroos? i think we did very very well, the scoreline flattered Chile but we were extremely poor in the first 15 minutes

we had a few very promising young players but Chile are a very good team and i am very proud of the socceroos

i cant believe that Spain got destroyed


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## Winds




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## Shadow2009

Robben was *on fire.* That was such an entertaining game to watch.


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## Nefury




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## minimized

How about that CONCACAF... now we just need the US to... uh, blow it...


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## starsfreak

I wonder if Balotelli or Immobile will start today. Immobile is in top form and was the top scorer in Seria A last season but Mario's always up for a surprise 

Edit: wow didn't expect that


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## Fooza

:| England is always frustating to watch, Uruguay game is a must win, can't risk anything else.


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## starsfreak

Fooza said:


> :| England is always frustating to watch, Uruguay game is a must win, can't risk anything else.


I think England looked pretty good there. Sturridge might be the piece in their offense that was missing the last WC's. Also losing to Italy isn't really a tragedy. I can see England going to the quarter final at least.


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## LittleQ

I think England deserved a draw for the way they played there. We're going to have a harder task beating Uruguay than Costa Rica did if Suarez is back though. We still have a chance of getting our the group but I don't see us getting much further.


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## MiMiK

damn Ecuador **** that one up. literally 30 secs for the match to be over and they couldnt keep control of the ball. gj Switzerland


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## Jammer25

Goalkeeping has left a lot to be desired for the most part. 

Honduras played pretty dirty, but that can be typical of a lot of Latin/Hispanic countries that start to lose.


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## starsfreak

After watching it 7 times I still can't say if that shot from Benzema went in or not. I got the feeling that this goal control thing is slightly wrong here but I really can't tell for sure.

Nvm saw some pics. Was clearly in


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## Fooza

There was a mess up with the goal technology video, it first stated No goal when it hit the post which angered the French fans, and then showed it was a goal after it hit the goalkeeper. Even though it was correct they need to sort out the confusion since fans can see it.


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## JayDontCareEh

.


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## markwalters2

What does this remind you of?


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## Elad

Obviously sad to see England lose but I had no real expectations, actually can take some positives out of how we played.. _some_ fluidity in attack and taking players on going for the win. Based on how Uruguay played we can definitely beat them, whether they'll be that poor again with Suarez back is the question.


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## M0rbid




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## starsfreak

Finally Germany is starting their world cup campaign!

Go Germany!


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## Elad

Germany should win but given how the big nations have played so far I wont hold my breath.

hopefully Ronaldo is fit to make this interesting. 

also kind of don't want Klose to match/beat Ronaldos record.


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## starsfreak

That's what I call a start! :clap


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## Elad

too slick, too good.

pls make this game interesting based ronaldo.


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## gunner21

It's over for Portugal. Idiotic by Pepe.


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## Elad

pepe the potato.

fuk you pepe.


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## gunner21

Meuller should have been booked too for playacting.


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## Elad

muller to light up two world cups in a row? mirin.


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## starsfreak

gunner21 said:


> Meuller should have been booked too for playacting.


Yeah that was unnecessary. But Pepe was just stupid and def a red.

P.S.: Yeeees get in there! :clap


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## gunner21

DanielFromGER said:


> Yeah that was unnecessary. But Pepe was just stupid and def a red.
> 
> P.S.: Yeeees get in there! :clap


But Mueller didn't the price for it, whereas Pee did. Should have been a yellow for Mueller and red for Pepe.


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## Gavroche

My oh my! The Germans haven't looked this aggressive since they rolled into Poland!


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## starsfreak

Raul Meireles doesn't agree.


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## MrBlack

I wish they would just ban these play acting players for a few matches. It's a damn shame grown men have to act like pansies to gain an advantage.


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## gunner21

Nani is playing like absolute dog****.


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## M0rbid

Ronaldo, what a loser xD


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## Elad

Well this turned out pretty boring. Germany looking good.


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## sslsh

Who was horsesh*t..Pepe or the referee ?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## idoughnutknow

All Ghana / USA need to do now is beat the other team, draw with Portugal (not too difficult it seems, especially with half of their first choice defence missing) and not lose to Germany too heavily. Is it possible?


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## M0rbid

xD poor Ghana.. 1-0 USA


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## Ckg2011

Usa usa usa usa usa usa!!!!!


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## Ckg2011

What a game.


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## starsfreak

Totally love the world cup so far. Except for the ref controversies in the beginning everything was really entertaining and fun to watch!

And we're not even halfway through the group stages! :clap


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## 000XXX000

Usa! Usa! Usa!


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## Paper Samurai

Go 'murica ! I actually celebrated when your second goal went in, you guys deserve it for showing such grit and determination. :clap

And Brooks goal celebration was incredible - like his whole mind imploded from how happy he was


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## 000XXX000

Paper Samurai said:


> Go 'murica ! I actually celebrated when your second goal went in, you guys deserve it for showing such grit and determination. :clap
> 
> And Brooks goal celebration was incredible - like his whole mind imploded from how happy he was


I literally yelled at the tv, I thought for sure when it was tied up that Ghana was going to push ahead because we were just too busy playing prevent and watching the clock.


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## MiMiK

i was really disappointed how usa played. it kinda felt like a lucky win. Ghana pretty much had control the hole match


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## Royals

I thought USA deserved it also. They played like they wanted to win. When Ghana scored it was exciting but I never expected the US to score again and win. So far, the favorites have dissapointed so that's surprising. Netherlands and Germany play the best football by far, so I hope they play the final actually. But it would be nice if there were some surprises.


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## Winds

When we scored the second goal, I went nuts! Neighbors probably think I'm crazy. We played pretty badly for most of the game, especially in the midfield areas, but still manage to come away with the points. Very fortunate too, as Ghana had a couple of good looks before their first goal, but couldn't put the finishing touch on their chances. Even though he didn't produce much in terms of attacking and ball retention, defensively this was one of the best games I've seen Jermaine Jones play.


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## The Patriot

Life Long Brazilian fan here, I wasn't planning to watch the World Cup didn't feel the same, it was something I always did with my family, I grew up a Brazilian fan, watched from as early as I can remember Brazil. The Brazilian Team was a family tradition, it was heart, it was pride. 

It rivals and beats my love for all my other sports teams, nothing comes close to my love for Brazil. I figured meh I'd take a chance and watch it but its not the same, I don't know who these Brazilians are. 

My Brazil was. Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Rolandino, Kaka, Cafu, my Brazil was 98. I am not impressed by the Brazil I'm seeing right now argh. Lmao at the people who suddenly care about soccer because of Christiano Ronaldo or who suddenly are getting off because of Team USA. If you really are a USA fan fine that's great but really the media getting all wet and excited over the USA. I'm not impressed. 

This Brazil team is making me roll my eyes. 

Decided to go ahead and join in on the Social media aspect of the World Cup


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## SupaDupaFly




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## PGVan

Folded Edge said:


> That was clever play winning that penalty too


Now I love football, but I have a major problem with the mentality of "winning a penalty". The term itself is disgusting. The penalty Spain got against Oranje was horse**** because Costa put his back foot in a spot where he knew he would make contact with de Vrij.

FIFA needs to go rugby's way of a video referee, and have that video ref be certified as a professional so he can make these judgment calls so cheats like Diego Costa can no longer "win a penalty". Penalties are there for fouls in the box, they are not there to be "won". Players on all teams are trying to cheat so much that it's impossible for referees and their assistants to get it right more often than not, thus video refs are needed.

My WC observations so far...

Group A: Brasil are overrated (but will still win the group as Cameroun sucks). Yes, the penalty they got against Croatia was a bad call, but it was just that. Croatia embarrassed themselves saying the referees were there to win the WC for Brasil. Well done Mexico for holding Brasil to 0-0, but thank Ochoa and at the same time, stop praising him like a god please. They can't shutup about it and it didn't win them anything. Had Mexico scored and they won because of it, they would be through to the next round, thus have reason to praise him as such.

Group B: Admit some Oranje bias here, but I do feel a bit vindicated after one match. Nobody even rated Holland as an underdog prior to the tournament. I get that we have 6 returning players from the 2010 Finalist squad, but of the returning players, 4 are Robben, v.Persie, Sneijder and de Jong (along with Kuyt and Vorm on the bench). Those guys spoke by their play vs Spain. Spain got drilled where the sun don't shine, they are getting to be old and slower (see Robben outrun Ramos) and they are playing a Chile team who can basically knock them out with a win tomorrow. Australia is talking a big game going into tomorrow against Oranje. I hope they do challenge us, but to say they dominated a game they lost 3-1 and that they know how to hit the Dutch where we don't expect it.... well, you better be able to back that up. It's locker room material and Louis van Gaal will roll heads (or take away potential Man United contracts) from Oranje players who let the 5-1 win put their heads into the clouds.

Group C: Still competitive. Not much to say other than I see Colombia and Côte d'Ivoire going through. Though if Drogba isn't 100%, Greece could scrape though if they get their defensive act together.

Group D: Suarez says he's fit for England, but until I see him in the squad and performing, I don't believe it. Down 2-1 to Costa Rica, Tabarez left him on the bench. If he's able to even crawl, he would have been in the game to try to rescue Uruguay. It's England's chance to pounce, get a result and go into the Costa Rica match with it all to play for. Italy should win the group.

Group E: France will run the table. Switzerland likely won second place by beating Ecuador. Honduras is going to go down as one of the dirtier teams in recent WC memory. How they only got the 4 yellow cards against France is beyond me. Palacios should have gotten a straight red for stomping on Pogba rather than just a yellow.

Group F: Less than impressed with Argentina. Messi is Messi and we all know he has a precise shot from 20 yards out and closer, if given the open chance. They will get out of the group, but any team in the knockout rounds who can contain Messi and score themselves will beat Argentina. Bosnia should have their way with Iran and Nigeria. Watching those two teams play each other was an argument for less African and Asian teams at the WC.

Group G: Always hate admitting it, but Germany is good. That said, I thought they would have scored more than just one goal in the 2nd half with Portugal down to 10 men and Ronaldo playing like s***. Portugal is ridiculously overrated and without Ronaldo, they're just not good enough to even qualify for major tournaments. Given how the teams are playing, it could be Germany and USA through by the end of the second matches.

Group H: Still not convinced that Belgium is a legit darkhorse. Talented, yes... Tournament experienced? No. They will win this group however. They got a very easy draw.


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## 161

i usually dont support USA in sport because they are usually the big team and i usually support the underdog but football in the USA reminds me a lot of football in Australia and we share a similar path so i pretty much always support USA in football

i am hoping Australia dont lose too badly against the Netherlands i dont expect a win or even a draw but as long as we fight for it and try our hardest(somewhat like under 6's football  ) i will be proud and happy


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## Royals

I heard Australia never lost to Nederland so it's hard to predict Netherlands-Australia or Spain-Chili. A draw for both would be most likely. But if Netherlands plays just like the first game it will be 1 or 2-0. If Spain plays better it will be maybe 1-0, or else a 0-0 or 1-1.


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## 161

Royals said:


> I heard Australia never lost to Nederland so it's hard to predict Netherlands-Australia or Spain-Chili. A draw for both would be most likely. But if Netherlands plays just like the first game it will be 1 or 2-0. If Spain plays better it will be maybe 1-0, or else a 0-0 or 1-1.


we have not lost yet but only played 3 times, 1 win for us and 2 draws, but i think the Netherlands will have it easy, as long as its not a Spain scoreline and we try then i will be happy.

i have decided i will support the Netherlands every single match apart from tonight, never met an arrogant supporter of the Netherlands

i still think Spain will make it through the group


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## minimized

Of course we can get at least a point from Portugal. I've been saying it all along. Just like I believed we were Ghana win game 1 

If you stick to the Brazil that we saw growing up, you're probably always gonna be disappointed. Those are some big shoes to fill, even for Brazil.


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## Winds

Best crowd reaction gif of the tournament so far. It sums up everything that has happened at this point perfectly.


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## 161

this is going to get messy


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## starsfreak

Man Holland looks sloppy.


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## gunner21

What an entertaining game so far. I expected Australia to fold, but they have shown up today.


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## starsfreak

moloko said:


> Not really sure about that penalty...


Difficult call. His arm was far away from his body but the distance between the player who gave the cross and Janmaat was pretty small as well.

I'd say Australia got lucky. Not all refs would make that call.


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## Elad

Good game, really impressed with Australia.

I think their style of play might give Spain problems.


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## starsfreak

Even when they lose the Socceroos can be very proud about this!


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## 161

again i am very proud of the socceroos, yes we got a somewhat lucky pen(it could have easily gone either way) but everything considered i am very happy with how it worked out, i am excited to see Spain vs Chile, usually i would go for Chile but go Spain only because it gives Australia a very very remote chance of making it through

this has been a hell of a group so far


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## Royals

161 said:


> we have not lost yet but only played 3 times, 1 win for us and 2 draws, but i think the Netherlands will have it easy, as long as its not a Spain scoreline and we try then i will be happy.
> 
> i have decided i will support the Netherlands every single match apart from tonight, never met an arrogant supporter of the Netherlands
> 
> i still think Spain will make it through the group


Congratulations on a great match! I love teams like Australia who have such a good fighting spirit. It's just that no team has strikers like van Persie, Robben and Sneijder, who seem to be unstoppable when they are in top shape. Now I hope Netherlands will take first place in the poule since second place they will play Brasil  And what a surprise it will be if Chile goes through!


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## PGVan

Not gonna bull**** here, a bit relieved after that. I don't think we underestimated Australia, but the 5-3-2 approach wasn't right in my opinion. We played that way against Spain for obvious reasons (they are a better possession team than us) and it worked. When we were forced to go to a 4-4-2 in the second half, we held the ball better and created more opportunities. Had we started with that, I don't think it would have been so tight in the end. Once the stats were compiled in the end, we took 15 shots and 14 were on target. For what appeared to be a sluggish effort, that's not bad at all. 

As for the penalty, it's only because we can see numerous replays that we can even debate handball vs. ball-to-hand. I don't think it was a penalty, but I won't get mad about it. Put yourself in the referee's shoes, see that once at full speed from wherever you happen to be and what would you do? With that said, I will find a positive for my team and say that while this win wasn't how we wanted to win, Australia's 2 goals were both not because we made any mistakes defensively. (Leckie should have burned us on one defensive blunder, but he f***ed up.)

I'm going to sound like a bitter *****hole here, but I'm mad. All credit to Tim Cahill for his goal. We played him right, kept him outside and he hit a wonder strike. Well done. Too bad he's a dirty piece of s***. He should have had a yellow card the first time he stomped on Martins Indi's ankle and his second for the same thing in the 43rd minute. (His second foul was actually not as bad as the first!) Cahill should have been off with what should have been his second yellow card. He took out one of our top defenders. 20/20 hindsight shows that to be a blessing in disguise as Louis van Gaal immediately brought on Depay to switch to a 4-4-2. I just hope the injury isn't serious. de Vrij wasn't great today and if we play a 4-4-2, I'd rather have Martins Indi in than de Vrij.

In the end, a W is a W. We'll take the 3 points and wait for the result of ESP-CHL to see what we need to do Monday.


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## 161

Royals said:


> Congratulations on a great match! I love teams like Australia who have such a good fighting spirit. It's just that no team has strikers like van Persie, Robben and Sneijder, who seem to be unstoppable when they are in top shape. Now I hope Netherlands will take first place in the poule since second place they will play Brasil  And what a surprise it will be if Chile goes through!


thank you, congratulations on the win, you deserved it, they are some amazing players, should be interesting to see you play Chile with no RVP,i am actually going for Spain tonight because then we have a very very slight chance to make it through.

when the draw happened i was not happy at all i thought we were going to have 3 6-0 losses so i am happy then, once we get eliminated go Netherlands, football wise i tend to support Netherlands, Germany(i know those 2 countries are not great friends football wise) the USA and in general whoever the underdog is

sorry i am going on so much, i love football:b

and on the Penalty it was not a penalty but you see them given from time to time


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## PGVan

161 said:


> thank you, congratulations on the win, you deserved it, they are some amazing players, should be interesting to see you play Chile with no RVP


For the sake of debate... We'll see if the match matters for us to begin with. Though even with him scoring again today, he wasn't at his best either. His yellow card was rather stupid too (as much as whoever he slapped milked it for all it was worth - they all do anyway). Robben has been far more impactful in my opinion, other than the dagger RVP headed in over Casillas.

Even though Lens has been RVP's sub in the first two matches, I wouldn't be surprised if Huntelaar starts against Chile. Either of those guys however are no slouches.


----------



## Elad

Spain are going out. Xabi wtf are you doing...


----------



## starsfreak

Now they're on fire but unlucky so far


----------



## PGVan

Spain hasn't been unlucky in the second half, they've been horrible, just in another way. Just like the first half against Holland, they're holding the ball but doing nothing with it. There is no reason or excuse for Busquets to miss the open goal from 5 yards out like that.


----------



## starsfreak

PGVan said:


> Spain hasn't been unlucky in the second half, they've been horrible, just in another way. Just like the first half against Holland, they're holding the ball but doing nothing with it. There is no reason or excuse for Busquets to miss the open goal from 5 yards out like that.


Yeah now they'rd pretty much out of the world cup. To be honest: I don't feel sad about that at all  :clap


----------



## gunner21

Not gonna lie, I'm glad Spain are out. That tiki-taka **** was getting boring.


----------



## Elad

potato del bosque is potato.

why the **** would you bring torres over llorente or negredo to the WC, and why not throw two upfront since its do or die at the end against chile. hope they lose to australia.


----------



## PGVan

gunner21 said:


> Not gonna lie, I'm glad Spain are out. That tiki-taka **** was getting boring.


It wins though. Only reason Spain are gone early is because they're finally old and slow. The era is over for this team, but not this style of play.


----------



## Royals

All champions have to lose one time. Spain has enough cups so give it to someone who really deserves it. Like Chile or another outsider.


----------



## apx24

Lol Spain were decimated by Chile tonight.

Come on you Three Lions, we WILL get a result against Uruguay!


----------



## pazuzuinxs

apx24 said:


> Lol Spain were decimated by Chile tonight.
> 
> Come on you Three Lions, we WILL get a result against Uruguay!


We have to! Though I am getting increasingly skeptical of our chances with Rooney not at his best (as usual?).


----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> All champions have to lose one time. Spain has enough cups so give it to someone who really deserves it. Like Chile or another outsider.


Or judging by your location, Oranje! Our first half was horrible today, but the team is mentally strong enough to grind it out.

I'm not understanding the Chile obsession in the media. They've done the exact same thing Holland has done to this point. Both teams have had to grind out a win against Australia and they both beat Spain in one half while Spain dominated the other, just with no finish at all.

I think both Nederland and Chile will be playing to not get hurt. I don't think either team is too concerned with avoiding Brasil... it's not like they're the Brasil of old. I haven't been too impressed at all.


----------



## Fooza

Chile's back 3 consisted of 2 players who got relegated with Osasuna and Cardiff City, and 1 of whom is now released by Nottingham Forest. Just an incredible achievement by Chile and shows how good the World Cup can be.

I won't laugh at Spain just yet, England may get beat tomorrow, hope not. C'mon England.

Edit: Assou-Ekotto's headbutt on his own team mate, and Song's elbow punch ... :haha pair of clowns.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Damn that elbow punch looked vicious!


----------



## riderless

Royals said:


> Congratulations on a great match! I love teams like Australia who have such a good fighting spirit. It's just that no team has strikers like van Persie, Robben and Sneijder, who seem to be unstoppable when they are in top shape. Now I hope Netherlands will take first place in the poule since second place they will play Brasil  And what a surprise it will be if Chile goes through!


 I'll go as far as to say Australia are the next big thing in soccer. I'm talking world cup finals in 2018. Players will be snapped up now by rich European club scouts including Tim Cahill, despite his age.
Soccer has arrived in Australia! Look out AFL and Rugby!


----------



## riderless

How good is this world cup eh....
the best ever easily!
free flowing attacking soccer with plenty of goals , that is what is going to promote this game and make it THE game...

then a message for other sporting codes....free flowing attacking style is what spectators want to see. Only hardcore, one-eyed purists tolerate the dull defensive stuff. So if you want to win the hearts of new fans, make the game attacking and full of flair

there has been some unbelievable goals scored already. I love it!


----------



## PGVan

riderless said:


> then a message for other sporting codes....free flowing attacking style is what spectators want to see. Only hardcore, one-eyed purists tolerate the dull defensive stuff. So if you want to win the hearts of new fans, make the game attacking and full of flair


I'll argue with you here. Wins attract real fans the most. As an Oranje supporter, I'm embarrassed that a man like Johan Cruyff actually would rather "lose beautifully than win ugly". That attitude is why we've been to 3 finals and lost them all. If you can win with flare, good for you, but there is no such thing as losing beautifully. If I'm Australian tonight, I'm pissed at Leckie for not scoring that 3rd goal that likely would have won them the game.

As we can see with the lack of respect Holland is getting tonight on social media (nobody is picking them to have a chance in the Round of 16), their load of goals don't mean anything. There are concerns about the defence. I love the 8 goals that Oranje have scored in 2 games, but if we don't win the tournament, they won't mean anything.

Granted, in a league system (and tournament group stages), goal differential matters, so fill the net by all means. (Just don't abandon a defensive commitment.) However, when it comes to knockout stages, I want to see my team scoring more goals than the opponent, be it 3-2 or 1-0. The result is all that matters.


----------



## markwalters2

Spain oh Spain...


----------



## gunner21

PGVan said:


> It wins though. Only reason Spain are gone early is because they're finally old and slow. The era is over for this team, but not this style of play.


Well, everyone and their grandma knows how to defend against tiki-taka now. It worked for a while. The problem with Spain was they had no plan B.


----------



## 161

PGVan said:


> For the sake of debate... We'll see if the match matters for us to begin with. Though even with him scoring again today, he wasn't at his best either. His yellow card was rather stupid too (as much as whoever he slapped milked it for all it was worth - they all do anyway). Robben has been far more impactful in my opinion, other than the dagger RVP headed in over Casillas.
> 
> Even though Lens has been RVP's sub in the first two matches, I wouldn't be surprised if Huntelaar starts against Chile. Either of those guys however are no slouches.


lol true it doesnt matter anymore too much, i assume Spain are ranked first in the rankings and Australia are ranked last, i dont know if in the history of the world cup that the first 2 teams that were out were both the top ranked and lowest ranked team, i still hope we can beat or draw Spain so we can beat them in the group that would still be a massive thing no matter how garbage they have been. i agree about Robben he has looked amazing especially against Spain he went through defenders like they didnt exist

so far this world cup no one stands out which makes things interesting and i doubt Australia will be the next best thing in football, i would love that to be the case but we still dont have a real appreciation of the world game and it will be difficult for us till we do, though its improving very fast so you never know, for Australia it feels like a coming of age as such, i know we are eliminated and without a point but we performed well and it reminds me of our efforts in 2006


----------



## PGVan

Australia needs to focus on their back line. The world's best teams can win the majority of matches when they score 1-2 goals. Holland's 3 goals today came from allowing Robben to run on his own, a pass through the back line with one guy playing RVP onside and allowing Depay to run at them and shoot, even though it was a long way out.

Australia's defence today was what most see Holland's defence as being all the time. For some reason, we can allow 5 goals in 10 qualifying matches and get talked about as if our defending blows. Of the 3 goals we've conceded at the World Cup, 2 have been penalties (on incorrect calls too) and the other one was a strike that nobody keeps out of their net. May the world forgive me for being just a little bit confident. :clap


----------



## PGVan

gunner21 said:


> Well, everyone and their grandma knows how to defend against tiki-taka now. It worked for a while. The problem with Spain was they had no plan B.


 Both Holland and Chile played a half against Spain being utterly dominated by tiki-taka. Problem for Spain was the finishing. They had none. Had Diego Costa simply blasted a shot at Cillessen rather than trying a weak chip over him to go up 2-0, we're likely singing a different tune tonight.


----------



## Elad

alright my fellow english bros, its time to form a prayer circle and summon some supreme wizardry to beat uruguay.

please rooney tell me you didn't get on the piss last night. pls.


----------



## apx24

Elad said:


> alright my fellow english bros, its time to form a prayer circle and summon some supreme wizardry to beat uruguay.
> 
> please rooney tell me you didn't get on the piss last night. pls.


I'm with you man, C'mon England!


----------



## MrBlack

moloko said:


> Godin should have been sent off. 9 minutes.


Definitely after that last incident. Lucky guy. Probably only a matter of time now though.


----------



## MrBlack

cry:cry


----------



## Elad

oh gerrard.

it just had to be you.

come on boys, we have to pray that italy win their 2 games so we have a shot *if* we beat costa rica.


----------



## riderless

Suarez 2 England 1


----------



## apx24

****ing disappointment as usual. We were woeful in the second half.



In a Lonely Place said:


> **** sake time to drown my sorrows


Right ahead of you buddy, had 5 pints of Stella tonight. After Rooney scored the equaliser I really thought we would go on and win it.


----------



## Fooza

Gutted.

I can't see Italy beating both Costa Rica and Uruguay, whilst we beat Costa Rica by 2 or more goals. Only positive; last World Cup for Gerrard, absolute joke of a performance from a captain at the biggest stage (along with many others, mostly the defence).


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Neither England or Australia laid down but they are both headed home. 

Suarez is unbelievable, even after injury when he gets his chances he pounces.

The highlight reel of goals for this world cup is going to kick ***!


----------



## apx24

Fooza said:


> Gutted.
> 
> I can't see Italy beating both Costa Rica and Uruguay, whilst we beat Costa Rica by 2 or more goals. Only positive; last World Cup for Gerrard, absolute joke of a performance from a captain at the biggest stage (along with many others, mostly the defence).


Same, I feel gutted too.

Gerrard must have thought that he was playing for Liverpool, setting up Suarez for that second goal.

I want to watch us against Costa Rica, but I don't know if I can, it just seems pointless now.


----------



## Royals

Wow it's amazing to see how one player can carry a whole team! Suarez did it with Ajax but he IS Uruquay also. Without him they lose, with him they win. They deserve to win.


----------



## Charmander

Had to laugh at how quickly my mom went from praising Rooney to calling the entire team useless. xD


----------



## Elad

moloko said:


> How is England not out yet? I'm tired of making math and can't figure out how can they still have a shot. Two lost games always means goodbye, unless something changed.
> 
> Do you mean get out as in qualify, or get out as gtfo of Brazil?
> 
> Pretty much.


because currently costa rica/uruguay/italy are all on 3 points. england need italy to win against costa/uruguay to keep them on 3 points, while england need to beat costa rica with a few goals to spare to get on 3 points also with a better goal difference.

its unlikely but not so unlikely to say we're completely out. will keep the faith.


----------



## Elad

moloko said:


> In that case they'll have 3 points, same as Uruguay and end up behind them because they lost against them. I call it direct confrontation, but I don't know the term in English. Goal average comes into play only in case of draw between teams. I have to check if it's like this on wikipedia, when I have time.


nope, its based on goal difference when level.


----------



## starsfreak

Elad said:


> nope, its based on goal difference when level.


That's weird. In the Euros 2012 or was direct confrontation first and then goal difference. Russia was knocked out in the group stage because of that.

Thought they had changed it for the world cup too.


----------



## gunner21

moloko said:


> In that case they'll have 3 points, same as Uruguay and end up behind them because they lost against them. I call it direct confrontation, but I don't know the term in English. Goal average comes into play only in case of draw between teams. I have to check if it's like this on wikipedia, when I have time.


They'll all have 3 points and England will go through if they have the best goal difference.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Are Costa Rica the dark horse this time around? I didn't see them coming at all...


----------



## Fooza

England are out anyways, many thanks Roy and Gerrard. Costa Rica showing us how to win games.

Edit: I don't really see them being dark horses, Italy are just average, they've always been. Guess it shows how bad England have been really.


----------



## Winds

Costa Rica defensively have rarely put a foot wrong in the first two games. Their back line working the trap is like watching a fine orchestra play haha. Italy just looked bereft of any options for most of the game, even more so towards the end.


----------



## gunner21

Imagine if England and Italy get kicked out in group stages


----------



## Milco

ITV commentator on the Swizz tonight:
_"They love to split the French, play that triangle and go in deep." _
Ooh er, Mrs!


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Vive La France! Love to see the French playing good football



Milco said:


> ITV commentator on the Swizz tonight:
> _"They love to split the French, play that triangle and go in deep." _
> Ooh er, Mrs!


Priceless! lol


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Damn England's out. Italy is in danger. I don't see the European teams doing too well against any of the SA ones in this world cup. Predictions for the final anyone?


----------



## pazuzuinxs

EastWinds said:


> Costa Rica defensively have rarely put a foot wrong in the first two games. Their back line working the trap is like watching a fine orchestra play haha. Italy just looked bereft of any options for most of the game, even more so towards the end.


Yeah, too many offsides. And Balotelli looking like the extra on the set.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

In a Lonely Place said:


> Germany all the way to the final I hope.
> 
> Sorry Germans, I most likely just put a curse on your team.


Hope so too...and they have a cakewalk group so should coast to the knock offs at least.


----------



## Folded Edge

Sorry to see England go out so early. Chile may well be my choice for (dark horse) possible finalists - they looked really, really good beating Spain . Germany or Holland for the other finalists.


----------



## gunner21

^ Belgium is my dark horse.


----------



## Folded Edge

gunner21 said:


> ^ Belgium is my dark horse.


Agreed. I had forgotten about Belgium, sadly missed their first game. They were held in high regard at the start of the tournament. Looking forward to seeing them play.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

I missed that game as well, but think it is a bit of a stretch to assume they will qualify for anything beyond the QF's...but yeah, they might just be the dark horse...
Seeing Costa Rica's defense, I would at least fancy giving them a SF spot alongwith Chile. Brazil has failed to impress yet but you never know. 
And Germany is one team which has kept disappointing me, playing good football and then lacking the finish when it matters...too many semi final defeats IMO...


----------



## starsfreak

Man so many "favorites" already struggle to survive the group stage. Hope Germany won't have such a hard time later...


----------



## Canadian Brotha

What a time for Messi to score! Argentina don't look brilliant but they are getting it done.

I'm torn...I love the German team but Ghana is my heritage & it would be a glorious upset if they actually managed to pull it out of the bag


----------



## Gavroche

The Germans haven't stalled like this in the midst of an African conflict since El Alamein! Rommel would be flabbergasted!


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Is the upset on the cards? Good stuff from the Black Stars!


----------



## Fooza

I'm all out of being surprised anymore, top game so far. Loving this World Cup!

Edit: Klose scores! Happy for him


----------



## starsfreak

KLOOOSEEEE!!

Now tied in world cup goals with Ronaldo


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Well now I don't know where this going...


----------



## minimized

I don't want to face a Germany that needs to win...


----------



## Fooza

If this ends in a draw and Portugal win tomorrow against USA it will set up nicely going into the last remaining games.


----------



## starsfreak

My nerves....


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Great second half! Great World Cup!


----------



## starsfreak

What a match!

Wasn't going to be easy in the first place. Fair result! 

Love this world cup so far!


----------



## Fooza

Gotta love Ghana


----------



## Micronian

Too bad for Ghana. But it's their own fault for not winning this game. The attackers were too selfish and kept going for their own goals rather than being creative or using more teamwork. So many weak shots right to the goalie--and they blew the last counterattack by holding the ball too long and getting caught in an easy off-side.

And it doesn't surprise me to see a lot of european teams struggle at this world cup.
1) UEFA Qualifying is too easy. There's maybe only two challenging games in every group and the rest are complete cakewalks over weaker countries like lichtenstein, san Marino, Malta, etc. The teams do not get used to any real challenge or pressure situations. In CONCACAF and CONMEBOL qualifying games are real wars. The winners then are ready for anything. Same problem lies in Asia with the usual teams making it every time.

2) Teams from the Americas are the real "home teams". They're getting the most support, and that is huge for momentum.

France seems to be the only big European team that has survived their lowest moments and struggled the past few years enough not to succumb to the shock of the underdogs.


----------



## Micronian

In a Lonely Place said:


> Home advantage is obvious but as to European qualifying being too easy, the world cup appearances & winners/runners up stats don't say so.
> 
> Results by confederation
> Confederation......Appearances.......Winners..... Runners-up
> UEFA .....................25...................10...............15
> CONMEBOL..............13....................9.................4


We're in a new era.

the competition level has increased exponentially since the old days, now that clubs and leagues have become so internationally oriented. Consider that right up to 2002 there hadn't been any teams represented in the top 4 outside of south america and europe, or that last year's club world cup an african team got to the finals for the first time. The stats of the 20th century aren't representative at all of what soccer is now.

Since 2002, you see very few European teams outside of the "powerhouses" get to the quarterfinals, meanwhile you see more new teams from other continents show up: South Korea, Paraguay, USA, Ghana, Senegal. I remember only Turkey, and I think Portugal, make any surprise impact in the world cup from Europe. You'd think that any team that qualifies out of Europe would be a tough contender, but that really isn't happening: The Serbias, The Scotlands, Greece, Polands, Norways, etc. They really should be doing much better if UEFA was such a tough place to qualify from.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

In a Lonely Place said:


> But you're saying it isn't tough to qualify from Europe, they aren't doing too bad really considering it's so easy. Shouldn't the other continents be doing better considering how tough and good their opposition are?
> 
> 2010~ 6 of last 16 teams are from Europe. 1 African. 2 Asian. 7 Americas.
> Final Positions
> 1 Spain
> 2 Netherlands
> 3 Germany
> 4 Uruguay
> 
> 2006~10 of last 16 teams are from Europe. 1 African. 1 Australian. 4 Americas
> Final Positions
> 1 Italy
> 2 France
> 3 Germany
> 4 Portugal


These are the stats! UEFA is not that easy to qualify from.
IMO, the conditions in SA, as well as the immense crowd support has a huge impact. Consider Manaus, where Eng and Italy played their first game. Both were sapped and strolling int the fields for their 2nd, much to the advantage of whichever team can handle the 'heat' better. 
Again the grass, grown with a mixture of European and South American seeds, is coarser than the grass of the fields of Europe, making it more difficult for the European teams that thrive on playing quick passes across a smooth surface. 
Different fields, different weather probably contribute more than raw talent. Not to speak of the refreeing, which has been a tad partial towards the big name home sides...


----------



## Royals

I would like to see Costa Rica win the cup


----------



## googleamiable

great 2nd half performance from ghana


----------



## Folded Edge

Here's hoping the Belgium Russia game will a good one.  Beers in the fridge already :clap


----------



## Micronian

In a Lonely Place said:


> But you're saying it isn't tough to qualify from Europe, they aren't doing too bad really considering it's so easy. Shouldn't the other continents be doing better considering how tough and good their opposition are?
> 
> 2010~ 6 of last 16 teams are from Europe. 1 African. 2 Asian. 7 Americas.
> Final Positions
> 1 Spain
> 2 Netherlands
> 3 Germany
> 4 Uruguay
> 
> 2006~10 of last 16 teams are from Europe. 1 African. 1 Australian. 4 Americas
> Final Positions
> 1 Italy
> 2 France
> 3 Germany
> 4 Portugal


I'm not saying it's not tough. I'm saying UEFA qualification is not nearly _*as*_* tough *as it is in South America, or CONCACAF, and so the qualified teams aren't as ready to combat different kinds of adversity.

I think if you take away all the usual "powerhouses" (Italy, Germany, Brazil, France, Argentina, Netherlands, Spain), you kind of notice that the "dark horse" or "emergent" teams hardly come from the other European nations.

In Europe, groups are formed with two, sometimes 3, strong teams and another 3-4 weak teams. In every group there is maybe 2 key games to win, or otherwise it's decided on goal differential (i.e. running up the score on the minnows). Personally, i don't consider it enough preparation for a world tournament with increasingly competitive teams across all regions.


----------



## boas

I added a bit of spare cash to my betting account for the World Cup and so far I've lost every single bet I've made, giving me a tiny bit of cash (less than £1) to try and break even. Sometimes I wonder if my life isn't one big practical joke.


----------



## starsfreak

boas said:


> I added a bit of spare cash to my betting account for the World Cup and so far I've lost every single bet I've made, giving me a tiny bit of cash (less than £1) to try and break even. Sometimes I wonder if my life isn't one big practical joke.


It's not.

It's just that this world cup has been (for most of the games) totally unpredictable. Glad that I didn't bet on anything lol.


----------



## bluegc8

Algeria crushing Korea. I'm so sad.


----------



## PGVan

Micronian said:


> France seems to be the only big European team that has survived their lowest moments and struggled the past few years enough not to succumb to the shock of the underdogs.


 Netherlands. They had their low moment at Euro 2012. Louis van Gaal has done an amazing job rebuilding the national team since then. We do have a lot of young Eredivisie players right now, but that will change this summer. (And they are a contender now, I don't care what anyone says. They have the quality and the winning mentality.) I think Netherlands, Germany and France are the best European teams at the moment. Although it's only 2 matches, I'm quite disappointed in Belgium. They were supposed to be the darkhorse. They do have quality players in good leagues, but their two matches in Brazil so far have not lived up to that despite 2 wins.


----------



## Micronian

In a Lonely Place said:


> I dunno I'm failing to see the problem with powerhouses of world football and why they need discarding to measure the strength of dark horses, what's so special about these dark horses?.
> Those dark horses didn't win anything, it was the powerhouses from Europe who had the poor preparation no?


The dark horses make up the competition in their continental groups. If they are strong, then the winners become better suited to face international tournaments. This is why when a team comes out of CONCACAF or South America, they'll end up making the 2nd round. It's only been a recent phenomenon that the "favourite" (usually from europe) gets eliminated in the first round. in 98, Spain lost out to Nigeria and Paraguay; in 2002 France went out in the group stage; 2010 it was Italy, 2014: Spain, England, and there could still be some others eliminated, but it would be a shock to no one but to the European press and the supporters.

20 years ago, it would be unthinkable for such top teams be eliminated in the first round, but now it seems to get more and more common. What has changed? Which regions have changed? Which have stayed the same?


----------



## Micronian

moloko said:


> Spain never was a powerhouse. Just saying. Just this team has done anything of worth, otherwise they would always suck in international competitions.


Spain was always a powerhouse. They were just a powerhouse that always disappointed. It has only been recently that they've showed they could win, but it looks like they'll go back to being disappointments.


----------



## starsfreak

Hope USA can turn it around somehow but I'm not too confident about that.

Good game so far!


----------



## starsfreak

Unbelievable :O


----------



## Nefury

This is mental.


----------



## Nefury

No way....

On a side-note Nani is the worst footballer I've ever seen.


----------



## starsfreak

Damn what heartbreaker. Those last 2 matches should be interesting!


----------



## minimized

Fack.


----------



## Winds

Was gutted at the end, but if you said after the draw came out the US would have 4 points heading into the Germany game, I would have taken it with the quickness. Jermaine Jones delivers once again.


----------



## Paper Samurai

I'm really liking America in this World Cup. Great work ethic and a crap ton of surprises :-D (the Goal today by Jones was outstanding too!) Whisper it quietly, but I think they've played as more of a team than England have.


----------



## Paper Samurai

EastWinds said:


>


Dat swerve on the shot.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Woooo...and USA held...Portugal in with half a chance, especially cos USA face Germany next...the heat is on...
And hope England stops the Costa Rican juggernaut on Tuesday...enough defeats for now


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Micronian said:


> The dark horses make up the competition in their continental groups. If they are strong, then the winners become better suited to face international tournaments. This is why when a team comes out of CONCACAF or South America, they'll end up making the 2nd round. It's only been a recent phenomenon that the "favourite" (usually from europe) gets eliminated in the first round. in 98, Spain lost out to Nigeria and Paraguay; in 2002 France went out in the group stage; 2010 it was Italy, 2014: Spain, England, and there could still be some others eliminated, but it would be a shock to no one but to the European press and the supporters.
> 
> 20 years ago, it would be unthinkable for such top teams be eliminated in the first round, but now it seems to get more and more common. What has changed? Which regions have changed? Which have stayed the same?


Except Brazil and Argentina have both played pretty average this time. It is not just the powerhouses from Europe getting it tough. Look at the last Confed Cup. Both Spain and Italy, finalists from Euro did pretty well.

Think of 2002, S Korea and Turkey going through to the semis with France and Argentina going off. The Asian qualifications are surely not better than UEFA. Strange things happen and that makes the game more interesting.


----------



## Micronian

pazuzuinxs said:


> Except Brazil and Argentina have both played pretty average this time. It is not just the powerhouses from Europe getting it tough. Look at the last Confed Cup. Both Spain and Italy, finalists from Euro did pretty well.
> 
> Think of 2002, S Korea and Turkey going through to the semis with France and Argentina going off. The Asian qualifications are surely not better than UEFA. Strange things happen and that makes the game more interesting.


Brazil and Argentina:

As for Argentina, that is how they play. Nearly every tournament and qualifying round that they play against inferior teams--who bunker down--they score right near the end of the game. 1-0. Iran played like how Bolivia plays them. You pretty much know this because Argentina wasn't fouling or playing dirty, the coach hardly said a word, and when Messi scored the team did not come off the bench in jubilation. Argentina right now is pacing. But as they're not threatened at all, they may get caught by surprise in the next round...

Brazil? They did not participate in qualifying. Their team has not been "battle-tested" and hardened like they were in 2002, or like in 1994, where they needed to win their last match to qualify. That said, they are the home team. They will wake up and win the tournament. It's just a case of when.

as for 2002. That was certainly a strange one. Argentina came into the tournament as the top team from South America. Unbeatable. Their problem came when the coach, Marcelo Bielsa, benched the star of the team, Hernan Crespo, in favor of Gabriel Batistuta. Batistuta wasn't an integral part of that team. He came in only to play in the tournament and it rubbed some of the players the wrong way, with him and with Bielsa. The rest is history. Too bad. I really liked that 2002 team.

I tend to think of the 2002 World Cup as the turning point into this current period of soccer, where the competition from all over the world grew into their own. Which is why I find it almost comical how many fans and players from the "powerhouse" European teams still underestimate and look past the smaller teams like they're going to beat them just because their shirt says "Italy", or "England", or "Germany".


----------



## PGVan

pazuzuinxs said:


> Woooo...and USA held...Portugal in with half a chance, especially cos USA face Germany next...the heat is on...


Except one small fact... A USA-Germany draw ensures both go through to the Round of 16. USA would be more than happy to take 2nd place in the group to face Belgium.


----------



## gunner21

It would be mutually beneficial for Germany-USA to collude and play for a draw.


----------



## PGVan

Yes, and lets just not pay attention to the fact of who Jurgen Klinsmann is.


----------



## Jammer25

Terrible awareness and laziness in extra time on the US side.

The US's only real threat, if they were to lose to Germany, is Ghana. They'd have to win by 2+ goals even if the US loses, which is very doable for them. Portugal would need to win by 5+, so they're likely out.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Portugal's way out. But they also looked terribly fragile, so I wouldn't rule out a Ghana drubbing. 
And yes both Germany and USA would be ready for Algeria and Belgium. But what if a chance comes. I don't think any team would just let a chance go. Maybe not attack much. 
I wouldn't say USA was lazy at all. The extra time sub is a good tactic, but things just happened in a blitz. Good pass by Ronaldo got scored. Just like the Messi goal vs Iran. No way you can predict/ prevent things like that always.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

But what of Group D? Methinks if Pirlo doesn't shape up, they are in deep trouble. Suarez/ Cavani/ Forlan will score. And Italy's Balotelli just doesn't have the single-handed skill to rescue a team going down.


----------



## millenniumman75

I am a little upset about Portugal's late goal.

Cristiano Ronaldo was caught offsides at least three times in that game! You'd think that with the 21mil Euros he makes, he would know better.


----------



## Royals

Boom, 3 won, 10 goals, 3 goals against. I am starting to wonder if Netherlands isn't a title candidate now


----------



## Micronian

In a Lonely Place said:


> Of course they don't, we know better than anyone that there is no such thing as an easy game at a World cup finals. I think you may be over thinking all this.


I'm referring to the general fan in my local area, and the local media. I would hope the ones who watch a lot of international soccer, and who have followed the game a long time, think differently.


----------



## Royals

So, Netherlands is going to play Mexico in quarter final (not Brasil phew). Do you think we can win just like against Chili? Or will it be a harder job?


----------



## Micronian

Royals said:


> So, Netherlands is going to play Mexico in quarter final (not Brasil phew). Do you think we can win just like against Chili? Or will it be a harder job?


It should be a great game anyway. It should also be interesting to see which team gets more fan support. It wouldn't surprise me to see this game go to a penalty shootout.


----------



## Fooza

Royals said:


> So, Netherlands is going to play Mexico in quarter final (not Brasil phew). Do you think we can win just like against Chili? Or will it be a harder job?


Round 16, it's not the quarter finals just yet. It's going to be a tough game, both teams are exceptional tactically and work their socks off for the team. Since Netherlands have Robben and RVP though, I'll go for them to edge a win.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Netherlands would be the only European team I am willing to bet on at this time.

What of Costa Rica vs England? Can we salvage something?


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Micronian said:


> I'm referring to the general fan in my local area, and the local media. I would hope the ones who watch a lot of international soccer, and who have followed the game a long time, think differently.


You may be right about some factors but are they the determining factors? How can you negate other factors such as fan support or conditions? No European team has ever won in S. America. Would you then conclude that UEFA was always crappy?


----------



## PGVan

First of all, ORANJE BOVEN!! This team is so mentally strong and it is a great pleasure to watch. We qualified with 9 wins and 1 draw (while our horrible defenders conceded 5 goals in those 10 matches) and everyone and their mother said we had no chance. Then the draw happened and our only chance for points was Australia....and only if we got lucky. Then Kevin Strootman got hurt and we might as well have canceled our plane tickets and hotel reservations according to every expert out there. 

What we are seeing from Holland is similar to 2010 where we were playing for the result, but it's different because this time we have a coach who was willing to change the traditional 4-3-3 formation when he knew it was necessary. Bert van Marwijk was stubborn with keeping the formation and trying to hold possession against teams more suited to keeping the ball than we were. He also seemed to only want one more goal than the opponent. While Louis van Gaal has said that is his goal as well, he is also more than happy with his team scoring 4 more than the opponent... 5-1 against Spain while only having 42% of the ball speaks for itself. He only changed to 4-3-3 against Australia to wake the players up after a first half without focus. Perhaps 4-3-3 would have been good to start against a team like Australia, who do nothing but run at 100% the whole time and get tired a lot quicker than Chile did today being patient with the ball. However, against teams like Spain and Chile, the tactics and game plan were brilliant! Just an example is how LVG brought on Depay late because he knew Chile give more space near their back line in the last 15 minutes. 

Now to Mexico. For the first time in my lifetime, I am just not worried about Oranje becoming overconfident. At the knockout stage of any tournament, every team is a threat and I really do think the whole team knows it. Go to sleep against Mexico and their passionate effort can sink us. If we stick to whatever game plan Louis van Gaal has for Mexico, stopping Robben and a healthy and rested van Persie, when they get their opportunities, is going to be very hard for Mexico to do.

I just hope that we have earned some respect from some critics so far. Even up to yesterday, Brasil, Mexico and Croatia all seemed to want to play us rather than Chile. Well Mexico, guess what? :bat


----------



## googleamiable

Big fan of this robben-inspired dutch crusade
I shall be rooting for them and uruguay, for the same reason, with Suarez


----------



## Nefury

Hup Holland Hup


----------



## starsfreak

No way that's a red


----------



## starsfreak

Usually I would be kinda glad to see Italy going out so early but not under these circumstances...

Unbelievable. This World Cup surely got everything in it.


----------



## Elad

http://gfycat.com/FatherlyDiscreteAmethystgemclam#

lmao

clear bite


----------



## Elad

yeah suarez wont be playing in this WC again. :|


----------



## Nefury

The guy needs some serious help... It's absolutely disgusting.


----------



## Milco

In a Lonely Place said:


> Not been watching Italy match, has Suarez been getting all bitey again?


Yep. But this match had yet another blind referee so nothing was done about it. I really strongly hope Suarez is issued a ban for the rest of the tournament. He has no place on a football pitch the way he's behaving.
And I'm having to seriously reconsider my support for Liverpool sadly.. Kuyt and Carragher gone, Agger possibly going and Gerrard getting older.. If Suarez is the one that stays behind, then all hope is lost :blank
Rather walk alone than walk with him!

But it seems Uruguay can only win football matches by cheating *cough*Ghana2010*cough*
There's really no reason to respect them or to wish them to do well.
It's a joke. But sadly too much has been a joke already at this World Cup.


----------



## markwalters2

In a Lonely Place said:


> Not been watching Italy match, has Suarez been getting all bitey again?


No. He just kissed some defender on the shoulder and he got all upset


----------



## minimized

I can't believe someone that talented is that stupid... well, yeah I can.


----------



## Micronian

Excuses.

Though biting is obviously not a part of the game, it didn't have any part to play in the result. Italy did not attack, Balotelli was invisibile, and Pirlo did not open the game. Plus a dumb red card. the goal came from a corner, and Suarez didn't have anything to do with it. 


people can talk about suarez over the bite, but not about Uruguay's win.


----------



## Micronian

Milco said:


> Yep. But this match had yet another blind referee so nothing was done about it. I really strongly hope Suarez is issued a ban for the rest of the tournament. He has no place on a football pitch the way he's behaving.
> And I'm having to seriously reconsider my support for Liverpool sadly.. Kuyt and Carragher gone, Agger possibly going and Gerrard getting older.. If Suarez is the one that stays behind, then all hope is lost :blank
> Rather walk alone than walk with him!
> 
> But it seems Uruguay can only win football matches by cheating *cough*Ghana2010*cough*
> There's really no reason to respect them or to wish them to do well.
> It's a joke. But sadly too much has been a joke already at this World Cup.


There was a dangerous attacking play happening. Everyone was watching the play, including the referee. I can't blame him for that. He did look to the linesman for confirmation, though, so it wasn't only judged by himself.


----------



## Milco

Micronian said:


> There was a dangerous attacking play happening. Everyone was watching the play, including the referee. I can't blame him for that. He did look to the linesman for confirmation, though, so it wasn't only judged by himself.


But surely you have to think they look to the stadium big screens or get messages from other officials.
This wasn't part of the game - it's not just a missed part of the play - it's an attack on another player. They need to do something about that.


----------



## starsfreak

Micronian said:


> Excuses.
> 
> Though biting is obviously not a part of the game, it didn't have any part to play in the result. Italy did not attack, Balotelli was invisibile, and Pirlo did not open the game. Plus a dumb red card. the goal came from a corner, and Suarez didn't have anything to do with it.
> 
> people can talk about suarez over the bite, but not about Uruguay's win.


Uruguay pressured Italy because of that red card. If it was 11 vs. 11 that corner probably wouldn't have happened (or still, who knows) because Italy would have played more aggressive in the offense.

Maybe Italy had scored through a corner then. Who knows. But I still say that that red card definitely had a massive impact on the game.


----------



## Micronian

DanielFromGER said:


> Uruguay pressured Italy because of that red card. If it was 11 vs. 11 that corner probably wouldn't have happened (or still, who knows) because Italy would have played more aggressive in the offense.
> 
> Maybe Italy had scored through a corner then. Who knows. But I still say that that red card definitely had a massive impact on the game.


The red card changed the game completely. The bite didn't.


----------



## starsfreak

Micronian said:


> The red card changed the game completely. The bite didn't.


Might be true but no one knows how that red card would've changed the game.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

That stoppage time penalty to see Cote D'Ivoire off has gutted me. I'd rather they lost 2-1 from one of those bullet shots that came off the crossbar


----------



## pazuzuinxs

The bite did change the game. The whole team got high strung and jittery. 
And that was a red card???? Wasn't even a dangerous move. yellow at worst and I have seen referees let these go. If FIFA does not suspend Suarez for the rest of the cup, there is seriously something wrong. Ticket sales are one thing, but let's see...Iran denied, Brazil given a false penalty, no penalty for England, now a red card for Italy...am I the only one seeing a pattern here?
And the world cup is seeming almost like CONMEBOL now.


----------



## minimized

He's not going to get away with it.


----------



## gunner21

Milco said:


> Yep. But this match had yet another blind referee so nothing was done about it. I really strongly hope Suarez is issued a ban for the rest of the tournament. He has no place on a football pitch the way he's behaving.
> And I'm having to seriously reconsider my support for Liverpool sadly.. Kuyt and Carragher gone, Agger possibly going and Gerrard getting older.. If Suarez is the one that stays behind, then all hope is lost :blank
> Rather walk alone than walk with him!
> 
> But it seems Uruguay can only win football matches by cheating *cough*Ghana2010*cough*
> There's really no reason to respect them or to wish them to do well.
> It's a joke. But sadly too much has been a joke already at this World Cup.


I don't understand people who consider their win against Ghana as cheating. He handled the ball, for a red card, and Ghana got a penalty. It would have been cheating had he gotten away with it, but he didn't.


----------



## markwalters2

Nobody can say Uruguay lack bite up front now :clap


----------



## arnie




----------



## arnie

In a Lonely Place said:


>


----------



## Royals

Playing dirty and acting egoistically. That's the part what I don't like about superstar players. Suarez could have helped his team in the next round, but he had to bite another player. And it's not for the first time. What kind of things is this even? Acting like dracula with another man? It's something I won't understand. But it's surprising some of the big teams are out, and the underdogs are through. Nice that most South American teams are the winners.


----------



## gunner21

In a Lonely Place said:


> He stopped a certain goal and Ghana missed the penalty so of course he has cheated them out of a goal.


No he didn't. Ghana missing the penalty is their fault, not his.

Diving for a penalty without contact is cheating, fouling a player and getting away with it would be cheating, Thierry Henry handling a ball and scoring the winning goal on the same play against Ireland for 2010 qualifiers was cheating, but no one wants to talk about that.

If a defender gets sent off for fouling an offensive player who has a clear path on goal, it isn't considered cheating. (which is analogous to what happened in the Ghana game) I'm willing to bet my life savings on the claim that a majority of players would have done the same thing.


----------



## gunner21

Royals said:


> Playing dirty and acting egoistically. That's the part what I don't like about superstar players. Suarez could have helped his team in the next round, but he had to bite another player. And it's not for the first time. What kind of things is this even? Acting like dracula with another man? It's something I won't understand. But it's surprising some of the big teams are out, and the underdogs are through. Nice that most South American teams are the winners.


It's not even egotistical, it's just plain out retarded. Man has some serious issues.


----------



## minimized

Royals said:


> Playing dirty and acting egoistically. That's the part what I don't like about superstar players. Suarez could have helped his team in the next round, but he had to bite another player. And it's not for the first time. What kind of things is this even? Acting like dracula with another man? It's something I won't understand. But it's surprising some of the big teams are out, and the underdogs are through. Nice that most South American teams are the winners.


It's not even possible for me to even begin to guess at what the hell he's thinking... like what kind of insanity can go through that guy's mind to do it not once, not twice, but three times? And this time seemingly without provocation? He might just be an idiot.


----------



## markwalters2

167 people cashed in on bet that Luis Suarez would bite someone at World Cup

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/06/luis-suarez-biting-prop-bet-norway


----------



## Jammer25

And what of the next generation of players who would think what Suarez did is okay if he gets off with a ban of a few games? Soccer is everything in countless countries around the world, and if kids see that it will just perpetuate underhanded behavior in the sport.

Then again, it's FIFA, but they can't just ignore this given the reaction and coverage.

Also, the coach's comments were unbelievable. "This is about soccer, not morality." I was literally speechless when I saw that press conference.


----------



## markwalters2

Jammer25 said:


> And what of the next generation of players who would think what Suarez did is okay if he gets off with a ban of a few games? Soccer is everything in countless countries around the world, and if kids see that it will just perpetuate underhanded behavior in the sport.
> 
> Then again, it's FIFA, but they can't just ignore this given the reaction and coverage.
> 
> Also, the coach's comments were unbelievable. "This is about soccer, not morality." I was literally speechless when I saw that press conference.


Chiellini should be banned 10 games for barging his shoulder into Suarez's mouth. Plus another 3 for executing a missed elbow into Suarez's face. An additional 2 games for simulating himself as the victim to the referee. Total 15 games ban


----------



## Micronian

In a Lonely Place said:


> He stopped a certain goal and Ghana missed the penalty so of course he has cheated them out of a goal.


Ghana had a perfectly good opportunity to win that game, and they blew the PK.


----------



## Micronian

gunner21 said:


> No he didn't. Ghana missing the penalty is their fault, not his.
> 
> Diving for a penalty without contact is cheating, fouling a player and getting away with it would be cheating, Thierry Henry handling a ball and scoring the winning goal on the same play against Ireland for 2010 qualifiers was cheating, but no one wants to talk about that.
> 
> If a defender gets sent off for fouling an offensive player who has a clear path on goal, it isn't considered cheating. (which is analogous to what happened in the Ghana game) I'm willing to bet my life savings on the claim that a majority of players would have done the same thing.


I agree. There are players out there with the very clear intent of hurting other players--and even putting them out of the game and injuring them. A bite isn't quite like that. Unorthodox, yes; sick, yes; does it get a player carted out of the field? No.


----------



## PGVan

michael1 said:


> Big fan of this robben-inspired dutch crusade
> I shall be rooting for them and uruguay, for the same reason, with Suarez


I fully realize you posted this last night haha... but Luis Suarez needs to be banned for as long as FIFA has the power to ban him. It's 2 years I believe.

We can't blame the referee for not seeing the bite and sending Suarez off. It was off the ball and even if the assistant on the side saw something, there is no way without video evidence that he could tell it was a bite. Suarez did it so quick, then be pretended that Chiellini gave him a shoulder to the face. None of us watching on tv knew what happened until replays confirmed it. It is unrealistic to expect the match officials to see exactly what happened when they see it once, at full speed and from whatever angle they happen to see it from.



Milco said:


> But surely you have to think they look to the stadium big screens or get messages from other officials.
> This wasn't part of the game - it's not just a missed part of the play - it's an attack on another player. They need to do something about that.


If you know the rules at all, even if match officials watch the jumbo tron, they cannot use it to make decisions aside from goal line technology (which is sent to their watches anyway, rendering the jumbo tron useless to them). The only way to police such actions is supplementary discipline. It's time for FIFA to step up and ban Suarez for 2 years (in my opinion).

As for Marchisio's red card, it's debatable, but not enough to hammer on the referee. His studs were up and it wasn't much different from Rebic against Mexico yesterday... just a bit more subtle.


----------



## gunner21

pazuzuinxs said:


> The bite did change the game. The whole team got high strung and jittery.
> And that was a red card???? Wasn't even a dangerous move. yellow at worst and I have seen referees let these go. If FIFA does not suspend Suarez for the rest of the cup, there is seriously something wrong. Ticket sales are one thing, but let's see...Iran denied, Brazil given a false penalty, no penalty for England, now a red card for Italy...am I the only one seeing a pattern here?
> And the world cup is seeming almost like CONMEBOL now.


Studs up and nowhere near the ball. Textbook red card.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

gunner21 said:


> Studs up and nowhere near the ball. Textbook red card.


You are right. When I was seeing the game in real time it did not appear as bad.


----------



## googleamiable

This is crazy. First off, i'm pretty sure any questioning why he does this has to be answered by he can't help it, it's some instinct he can't control. No way you jeopardize your career and a world cup run for nothing, his team was winning, there was nothing to even gain by it. 

That said, I love suarez but this is difficult to defend in any way. I don't think he should be treated as a monster, if you compare, something like what roy keane did in intentionally injuring another player is a million times worse than biting, to me. 

I'll hope he isn't banned for too long, not much else to say about it really.


----------



## Milco

gunner21 said:


> No he didn't. Ghana missing the penalty is their fault, not his.


Just like stealing isn't cheating if you get caught and punished?
He changed things very clearly in his favour with disallowed actions. If that''s not cheating, I don't know what is.


----------



## Elad

This is probably not such a bad thing for Liverpool, who looked like they were going to lose Suarez to Madrid or Barca. On the flip side it might be a 80mil transfer down the drain for them, hard to say who would still pay for him. Hes probably the best striker in the world right now.. but his image...


----------



## gunner21

In a Lonely Place said:


> The penalty kick is neither here nor there, Ghana had a clear goal prevented by a cheating little runt.
> See him celebrating after they missed it and saying how his hand is the hand of god. What with the biting, diving all over the place and kicking players, it's the mentality of a cheat.


Oh get off your moral high ground ffs. Again, I bet you that a majority of players would have done the same thing had they been in the same situation. That includes majority of the English players. His team just made semis for the ****ing world cup! Who the hell wouldn't celebrate. The only reason everybody was coming down hard on him was because "Oh my god poor wittle Ghana was going to be the first African country to make the semis".



Milco said:


> Just like stealing isn't cheating if you get caught and punished?
> He changed things very clearly in his favour with disallowed actions. If that''s not cheating, I don't know what is.


Cheating would be deviating from the normal moral code agreed upon by society or in this case other players. Is it really cheating if majority of players would have done the same. See my reply to In a lonely place for examples of cheating. (Thierry Henry being a prime one)



whiterabbit said:


> It is if he has no intention of getting the ball or knows that he can't reach the ball. That's why it's a serious enough foul to warrant a straight red. When you deliberately break the rules because you know you can't succeed within them, you cheat. If a player has taken the alternative of bringing the player down because he knows it's the only way to stop him, he may give away a penalty or a free kick on goal but he's giving his team a second chance to defend where they shouldn't have one. Sometimes a penalty is harder to score from than the chance from open play that was obstructed. In the case of Suraez v Ghana I'd say that was definitely the case.


Well, I guess most players in the game are cheaters then.


----------



## Milco

gunner21 said:


> Cheating would be deviating from the normal moral code agreed upon by society or in this case other players. Is it really cheating if majority of players would have done the same. See my reply to In a lonely place for examples of cheating. (Thierry Henry being a prime one)


Using your hands in that way to deliberately prevent a clear goal is against the "normal moral code agreed upon". It is not something a majority of players would have done. There have been many other similar goals where the defender keeps his arms at his sides, can't jump up to head it away and it's a goal.


----------



## gunner21

Milco said:


> Using your hands in that way to deliberately prevent a clear goal is against the "normal moral code agreed upon". It is not something a majority of players would have done. There have been many other similar goals where the defender keeps his arms at his sides, can't jump up to head it away and it's a goal.


The difference is that they're not trying to help their country advance to the semis in the World Cup.

I have a question: Would you consider Marchisio a cheater? (the player who was sent off yesterday)


----------



## gunner21

moloko said:


> Achieving victory no matter what it takes is not sport. Sport is about fair play, may the best win. That what you said right there has FIFA mentality all over it, "screw the game, there are more important things to think about".


Lol! Players don't care about the fair game crap. That much is obvious with the rampant diving and play-acting.

Also, I'm not saying how things should be. I'm saying how things are.

Ideally, no one would dive/simulate, players would admit to handball themselves, players wouldn't play dirty, and Suarez wouldn't touch that ball. But, it's not an ideal world.


----------



## Fooza

gunner21 said:


> Oh get off your moral high ground ffs. Again, I bet you that a majority of players would have done the same thing had they been in the same situation. That includes majority of the English players. His team just made semis for the ****ing world cup! Who the hell wouldn't celebrate. The only reason everybody was coming down hard on him was because "Oh my god poor wittle Ghana was going to be the first African country to make the semis".
> 
> Cheating would be deviating from the normal moral code agreed upon by society or in this case other players. Is it really cheating if majority of players would have done the same. See my reply to In a lonely place for examples of cheating. (Thierry Henry being a prime one)


To be honest, trying to justify an act of cheating in football on whether majority of players would do it is just absurd. Also regardless of action taken or not, it's still an act of Cheating. Whether in football, players who cheat get away with it or not is entirely another debate on it's own.

Also trying to assume that most players in Suarez's position would cheat as well is pretty much...well assumptions that you can't prove. If you look at the handball again, one could easily assume that any other player would header the ball instead of a handball, as the height of the ball was head level.


----------



## Micronian

Fooza said:


> To be honest, trying to justify an act of cheating in football on whether majority of players would do it is just absurd. Also regardless of action taken or not, it's still an act of Cheating. Whether in football, players who cheat get away with it or not is entirely another debate on it's own.
> 
> Also trying to assume that most players in Suarez's position would cheat as well is pretty much...well assumptions that you can't prove. If you look at the handball again, one could easily assume that any other player would header the ball instead of a handball, as the height of the ball was head level.


I don't think anyone is trying to justify cheating, but it's very unfair (and selective) to call out one form of cheating and not another.

Players do all kinds of heinus/unfair acts in the game. It can go from elbowing, to tugging on shirts, grabbing a player's genitals, slapping, stepping on toes, bad-mouthing about a player's wife or family, flopping, etc. plus all kinds of regular fouls. All of this is "cheating".

The people who suddenly get on a high-horse over a heinous act, as far as I'm concerned, are just sore losers (in this case, it seems, the English and Italians). I would love to see how many English players in the 1966 final match actually owned up to the non-goal that fell in their favour (otherwise, they were also cheaters).


----------



## Fooza

Micronian said:


> *I don't think anyone is trying to justify cheating*


Erm? I see this as trying to justify if it's cheating:



gunner21 said:


> Is it really cheating if majority of players would have done the same. .


----------



## Fooza

Micronian said:


> Players do all kinds of heinus/unfair acts in the game. It can go from elbowing, to tugging on shirts, grabbing a player's genitals, slapping, stepping on toes, bad-mouthing about a player's wife or family, flopping, etc. plus all kinds of regular fouls. All of this is "cheating".


again, different context for different individual actions.

To say for instance, 'regular fouls' is the same as a player handling the ball off the line in order to prevent a goal (in this argument) is ridiculous.

Tackling is part of the game, it's normal to have the above actions happen, just like many other examples you've given. Let's have some common sense please. (apart from elbowing, which in some way is vile, but in other instances perfectly normal when it's used as leverage when a player jumps for the ball)


----------



## Micronian

Fooza said:


> Erm? I see this as trying to justify if it's cheating:


I have never seen a soccer game where there was 100% honesty and morality between all the players, coaches, and referee.

If you have--which it seems like you do--please tell me that professional league.


----------



## Micronian

Fooza said:


> again, different context for different individual actions.
> 
> To say for instance, 'regular fouls' is the same as a player handling the ball off the line in order to prevent a goal (in this argument) is ridiculous.


No it isn't. They both prevent the other team from getting an advantage.
A handball is a handball is a handball.



Fooza said:


> Tackling is part of the game, it's normal to have the above actions happen, just like many other examples you've given. Let's have some common sense please. (apart from elbowing, which in some way is vile, but in other instances perfectly normal when it's used as leverage when player jumps for the ball)


Tackling is a part of the game, but it can be done fairly without the opponent falling on the ground. Actually, this kind of tackling seldom happens these days.


----------



## Fooza

Micronian said:


> I have never seen a soccer game where there was 100% honesty and morality between all the players, coaches, and referee.
> 
> If you have--which it seems like you do--please tell me that professional league.


My point being, any player on the field who uses an unfair advantage not within the rules for their benefit, is cheating. Simple as that. Like the Suarez incident for instance, he was branded a cheater, and correctly so.

We all know there are player's who are dishonest and do cheat in football games. That's not my argument.


----------



## Fooza

Micronian said:


> No it isn't. They both prevent the other team from getting an advantage.
> A handball is a handball is a handball.


Wrong

A handball, just isn't a handball. They're deliberate handballs, and then there are handballs where players kick the ball onto the hand from close distances that's impossible to avoid. I.e not deliberate.

Context.



Micronian said:


> Tackling is a part of the game, *but it can be done fairly without the opponent falling on the ground.* Actually, this kind of tackling seldom happens these days.


I give up


----------



## PGVan

michael1 said:


> This is crazy. First off, i'm pretty sure any questioning why he does this has to be answered by he can't help it, it's some instinct he can't control. No way you jeopardize your career and a world cup run for nothing, his team was winning, there was nothing to even gain by it.
> 
> That said, I love suarez but this is difficult to defend in any way. I don't think he should be treated as a monster, if you compare, something like what roy keane did in intentionally injuring another player is a million times worse than biting, to me.
> 
> I'll hope he isn't banned for too long, not much else to say about it really.


I don't fully disagree with your example of Keane on Haaland. However, two things that need to be realized about Suarez...

1. Biting can be dangerous. How do we know Suarez doesn't have Hepatitis or something that can be passed along through a bite? (If that were to ever be the case, it becomes a criminal act.) Even if he doesn't, the fact that he's doing something that can be that dangerous means he needs to be made an example of.

2. Suarez keeps doing it. This is strike three. He was banned 7 matches by the Eredivisie (Dutch league) and 10 by the English Premier League for the same f***ing thing. He does not care. It's time for Suarez to pay the price, not in matches, but in months if not a full two years!

As for his handball against Ghana in 2010, lets be honest. Suarez did that knowing Ghana would get a last-second PK, and that if his desperate attempt to stay in the competition actually worked, he would not play the semi-final. Gyan f***ed up from the spot. Suarez didn't step up and miss that PK for Ghana.

I do think Suarez was an *****hole of the finest degree for his reaction to that sequence of events, but sports does not (and should not) punish athletes for being *****holes. They should be punished for their actions when they break rules, and more severely when they repeat the same actions. Suarez was punished for the handball with a red card and an automatic suspension. Suarez (hopefully) will be punished for his bite on Chiellini with a long ban. There should be no punishment for being an *****hole, so long as what he says is not racist/prejudiced (as we've also seen with Suarez).


----------



## PGVan

I would also like to add the following observations...

A giant middle finger is directed at the Uruguayan team and media. For them all to deny Suarez bit Chiellini and for their media to claim this is all a European (mainly British) media campaign against Suarez is laughable at best. Typical Latin American attitude... they can do whatever they want to break the rules, lie about their actions and blame everyone else for making it up. They behave like 4 year-olds getting caught in the cookie jar. 

Argentina: 3 wins, absolutely the bottom line here, but it only gets tougher. Much like Portugal and Ronaldo, Messi is doing it all for his national team. I have no problem with squeaking by Bosnia. That was a tough match for both sides and Bosnia went on to blow it against Nigeria. The 1-0 win against Iran with a 91st minute goal wasn't good enough and Nigeria (who are rather weak in my opinion and are going through because Bosnia played below their standard) scoring on ARG twice means that the expectation on Messi might be unrealistic in the next rounds. Messi is amazing, but as good as he is, he can't win the WC on his own. Argentina scored 6 in the group stage, 4 were from Messi's boot, one from Rojo and one Bosnian own goal. Not good enough in my opinion. 

France: Benefitted in the 2nd half against Ecuador from a horrible red card decision. (I've said it before, I will say it again... UEFA referees only. Please!) They should have scored 5-6 goals in the last half hour, but they could not finish (Dominguez was good in goal for ECU to be fair). It almost bit them in the *** as Ecuador damn near won it late on 10 men. Granted, France only needed a draw to win the group, but that kind of game can ruin your rhythm.


----------



## Micronian

Things will even out in the quarterfinals. Argentina, France, and Germany will get easy draws, but they'll have to meet up sooner or later.


----------



## PGVan

As long as Germany wins their group, they are lined up with France in the QF. 

No fixing happening at this World Cup considering that Brasil v Chile winner plays the Colombia v Uruguay winner. Only one of those 4 South American teams will be in the Semi Final. 

I admit my bias, but I am loving the side of the draw for Holland. Mexico first. As long as we keep our focus and win that match, it's either Greece or Costa Rica next. Argentina is a possible semi-final match, which I am confident in our 5-3-2 system to do their best to contain Messi. But I must not get ahead of myself here. Mexico first!


----------



## markwalters2

Watch as TMZ interviews the Boss on the Louis Sanchez biting controversy..


----------



## gunner21

Fooza said:


> To be honest, trying to justify an act of cheating in football on whether majority of players would do it is just absurd. Also regardless of action taken or not, it's still an act of Cheating. Whether in football, players who cheat get away with it or not is entirely another debate on it's own.
> 
> Also trying to assume that most players in Suarez's position would cheat as well is pretty much...well assumptions that you can't prove. If you look at the handball again, one could easily assume that any other player would header the ball instead of a handball, as the height of the ball was head level.


He was way too close to his other teammate to dive in and head the ball away. Handling the ball was pretty much the only option.

Look, yes, he technically "cheated" because he broke the law. Going by that logic though, Marchisio cheated too because he broke a law and got sent off. Hell, every player is a cheater because I'm sure every player has received a yellow in his life.

My main beef with the whole incident is that it was too overblown and he was criticized way too much for it. It was 4 years ago ffs. People need to get over it. Criticize him for his psychotic biting and he deserves all the criticism he can get for that, not for a play that players WILL make if they were in his shoes.

Most players will cheat if it leads them to a win, which is quite obvious from the rampant diving that goes on nowadays.



In a Lonely Place said:


> Nope
> I bet you they wouldn't.
> 
> He was celebrating as Ghana missed the penalty he gave away, not because they had reached the semi's. Then he talked about how it was him, not maradona that had the 'Hand of God' and his was the save of the tournament.
> 
> Not sure about that, whoever it had been there would have been uproar.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> .


I'm willing to bet my left nut that a majority of players would do the same.

Let me ask you this: It's the 2018 WC final between Uruguay and England. Suarez has a clear shot at goal and Wilshere brings him down essentially "robbing" Suarez of a goal. England goes on to win the WC. Would you consider Wilshere as a cheat? I doubt you would.


----------



## minimized

Oh gawd I don't want to play Germany. For the first time I'm afraid. Ghana... they might win the war after all. Thanks Bradley for turning that ball over. We should have beat overrated Portugal.

We can still end up playing Belgium and overrated Argentina on the weaker side of the bracket...


----------



## gunner21

minimized said:


> Oh gawd I don't want to play Germany. For the first time I'm afraid. Ghana... they might win the war after all. Thanks Bradley for turning that ball over. We should have beat overrated Portugal.
> 
> We can still end up playing Belgium and overrated Argentina on the weaker side of the bracket...


I think US certainly has the capacity to draw the German team. One thing is for sure, their defense needs to be stronger.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Micronian said:


> I have never seen a soccer game where there was 100% honesty and morality between all the players, coaches, and referee.
> 
> If you have--which it seems like you do--please tell me that professional league.


As you will never see a society where there is 100% morality. But laws exist to prevent immoral acts, and even if the law does not catch all persons, the act stays immoral. 
You do not need 100% honesty to justify an act of dishonesty. Else a hardened criminal can counter a judge by saying he/she must have lied at some point in life---an immoral act, and they should both stand on the same pedestal.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

gunner21 said:


> The difference is that they're not trying to help their country advance to the semis in the World Cup.
> 
> I have a question: Would you consider Marchisio a cheater? (the player who was sent off yesterday)


Intention was easy to establish in case of Suarez and not in case of Marchisio. Hence a label of cheater better befits Suarez.


----------



## googleamiable

PGVan said:


> I don't fully disagree with your example of Keane on Haaland. However, two things that need to be realized about Suarez...
> 
> 1. Biting can be dangerous. How do we know Suarez doesn't have Hepatitis or something that can be passed along through a bite? (If that were to ever be the case, it becomes a criminal act.) Even if he doesn't, the fact that he's doing something that can be that dangerous means he needs to be made an example of.
> 
> 2. Suarez keeps doing it. This is strike three. He was banned 7 matches by the Eredivisie (Dutch league) and 10 by the English Premier League for the same f***ing thing. He does not care. It's time for Suarez to pay the price, not in matches, but in months if not a full two years!
> 
> As for his handball against Ghana in 2010, lets be honest. Suarez did that knowing Ghana would get a last-second PK, and that if his desperate attempt to stay in the competition actually worked, he would not play the semi-final. Gyan f***ed up from the spot. Suarez didn't step up and miss that PK for Ghana.
> 
> I do think Suarez was an *****hole of the finest degree for his reaction to that sequence of events, but sports does not (and should not) punish athletes for being *****holes. They should be punished for their actions when they break rules, and more severely when they repeat the same actions. Suarez was punished for the handball with a red card and an automatic suspension. Suarez (hopefully) will be punished for his bite on Chiellini with a long ban. There should be no punishment for being an *****hole, so long as what he says is not racist/prejudiced (as we've also seen with Suarez).


I'm completely biased in favour of Suarez, no problem admitting that.

point 1, I can't disagree. I can temper the extremity of what Saurez did, somewhat, by way of comparison. Zidane had 14 red cards throughout his career? Something I wasn't aware of, but I heard a pundit mentioning when defenders would foul him, he'd make a point to foul them back. It sounds similarly like a loss of control, from a great player.

Point being if you think about Zidane you don't think loose cannon, you just think about his triumphs and his skill as a player, rightly so. It should be like that with Suarez, even though he absolutely has a pretty severe discipline problem he can't control. I take the point about how serious biting could be, but it's still not the same as punching, injuring to me. Maybe it's equally as ridiculous as headbutting.

Disagree about him not caring though, I don't see how that's the conclusion because this is a repeat offense, it's lack of control. It's probably the same lack of control that enables him to play in such a direct, in the moment, trying things that shouldn't work way, same thing that makes him so good.

Also it's academic that he will be banned for the remainder of the WC, but even that's a shame. You could ban him for (pick a number) amount of international games after the world cup.


----------



## googleamiable

recommended reading: http://newsthump.com/


----------



## markwalters2

In a Lonely Place said:


> He's been banned for nine international games and four months from club football from what I can gather from the initial breaking news.
> 
> Bit silly how he will only miss about two and a half months of actual club football given the league doesn't start up for another 6weeks or so.


hmm... he would've been better off breaking somebody's nose or leg.


----------



## googleamiable

great article that for me actually makes sense of Suarez
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...nner-luis-suarez-soccer-most-beautiful-player


----------



## Nefury

Do me proud USA.


----------



## Milco

In a Lonely Place said:


> C'mon Germany


I think Germany will win, but the US will still go through.
I did think Ghana might win over Portugal, but when they send key players home, I don't know how much of a chance they have.
It would probably be the most fair conclusion to the group also.


----------



## PGVan

michael1 said:


> I'm completely biased in favour of Suarez, no problem admitting that.
> 
> point 1, I can't disagree. I can temper the extremity of what Saurez did, somewhat, by way of comparison. Zidane had 14 red cards throughout his career? Something I wasn't aware of, but I heard a pundit mentioning when defenders would foul him, he'd make a point to foul them back. It sounds similarly like a loss of control, from a great player.
> 
> Point being if you think about Zidane you don't think loose cannon, you just think about his triumphs and his skill as a player, rightly so. It should be like that with Suarez, even though he absolutely has a pretty severe discipline problem he can't control. I take the point about how serious biting could be, but it's still not the same as punching, injuring to me. Maybe it's equally as ridiculous as headbutting.
> 
> Disagree about him not caring though, I don't see how that's the conclusion because this is a repeat offense, it's lack of control. It's probably the same lack of control that enables him to play in such a direct, in the moment, trying things that shouldn't work way, same thing that makes him so good.
> 
> Also it's academic that he will be banned for the remainder of the WC, but even that's a shame. You could ban him for (pick a number) amount of international games after the world cup.


Why would you ban him AFTER the World Cup for something he did DURING the World Cup? That doesn't begin to make sense. Potentially passing on disease through a bite isn't as bad as (for example) punching someone in the face? You're letting your admitted bias cloud your judgment.

I don't see how it could be anything but not caring. A continuous lack of control suggests that he does not care to correct his bad behaviour. Suarez doesn't care about being accountable. Despite his Uruguayan teammates being a bunch of idiots (Lugano actually saying Suarez didn't bite Chiellini), Suarez let them down. He is their most important talent and his actions were selfish. With his ban, apparently he cannot be transferred this summer now. Good news for Barcelona, bad news for Liverpool. I wouldn't want a guy on my team when the odds are that he will spend a lengthy amount of time serving suspensions.

Nobody thinks of Zidane as a loose cannon, you are right. That's because his headbutt on Materazzi is the only major incident he committed and it was something he did once... and he was provoked. Suarez wasn't provoked by Otman Bakkal, Branislav Ivanovic or Giorgio Chiellini. He just went and bit them for no reason at all. The only reason Suarez didn't see red cards for those is because sneaky bites are almost impossible for match officials to see.

As far as triumph vs controversy with Zidane and Suarez... Suarez has had no triumphs. He's a talented player. Zidane won the 1998 World Cup and EURO 2000 with France. He helped bring his country glory.

I don't buy the "same lack of control that enables him" BS. Although Suarez is ridiculously talented, there are better players, and nobody else in his echelon of football talent feels the need to continuously do stupid things and then try to either lie about them or justify them.

Last but not least, I don't see why anyone would go beyond respecting Suarez's talent and actually liking the guy as a supporter. Three times now he's bitten opponents like a toddler, he lies about what he did and lets not forget that he is simply a racist pr!ck.


----------



## gunner21

michael1 said:


> I'm completely biased in favour of Suarez, no problem admitting that.
> 
> point 1, I can't disagree. I can temper the extremity of what Saurez did, somewhat, by way of comparison. Zidane had 14 red cards throughout his career? Something I wasn't aware of, but I heard a pundit mentioning when defenders would foul him, he'd make a point to foul them back. It sounds similarly like a loss of control, from a great player.
> 
> Point being if you think about Zidane you don't think loose cannon, you just think about his triumphs and his skill as a player, rightly so. It should be like that with Suarez, even though he absolutely has a pretty severe discipline problem he can't control. I take the point about how serious biting could be, but it's still not the same as punching, injuring to me. Maybe it's equally as ridiculous as headbutting.
> 
> Disagree about him not caring though, I don't see how that's the conclusion because this is a repeat offense, it's lack of control. It's probably the same lack of control that enables him to play in such a direct, in the moment, trying things that shouldn't work way, same thing that makes him so good.
> 
> Also it's academic that he will be banned for the remainder of the WC, but even that's a shame. You could ban him for (pick a number) amount of international games after the world cup.


The defending of his actions by his fans and teams is the reason why he continues to do this ****. Until they don't stop favouring him, he will continue to feel victimized.


----------



## googleamiable

It's really not the reason, this is a really good (fairly long) read:

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...nner-luis-suarez-soccer-most-beautiful-player

If suarez played for another team, I might hate him, but he doesn't currently so I still like and support him. He's a fighter and a dreamer, fighter is something I admire and dreamer is something I can relate to. He's also from a sporting perspective a type of player I love, that forward thinking, skillful dynamic type. They're brilliant.

Henry was one. Suarez. Brazilian Ronaldo (goat footballer). Zidane.


----------



## gunner21

Ghana GK with the most potato play I've ever seen.


----------



## googleamiable

haven't watched any of the ghana game. their best players getting themselves sent home for bizarre disciplinary matters is pretty potato as well.


----------



## minimized

I will never utter another bad word about Ronaldo ever again.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Well Ghana's youthful/inexperienced line up has showed this tournament but full marks to Gyan, I thought he would have lost some of his sharpness playing in Arabia but he can still score


----------



## gunner21

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/FF...p4?versionId=bV7EUknzPQbV0gnydM0w_BmDqQoYZHP5


----------



## markwalters2

Chiellini has a sense of humor.










http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...ni-posts-picture-biting-like-Luis-Suarez.html


----------



## Xioz

Thread lacking gifs, so here are some.


























Wait for it...


----------



## Folded Edge

^ Wooahhh that was an emotional roller coaster :hide Great game, I never enjoy penalty shoot outs, crap way for one team to get knocked out. Well done Brazil though, it's sad to see Chile go out, they have been great throughout the tournament.


----------



## Milco

Chile has played better than Brazil in the tournament, including tonight, so it was sad that they went out.

Come on, Colombia!


----------



## minimized

Rodriguez is fan-****ing-tastic. It quells my ire at not getting to watch Falcao.


----------



## Fooza

Colombia have surprised me the most, they play some great attacking football.

The goal again, stunning.


----------



## Folded Edge

Both Colombian goals were great. 1st was down individual talent and genius but the 2nd was a brilliant team effort, the build up play from the pass across the park, to the header back to Jimmy Rodriguez. Magic stuff. They totally deserved the win :clap


----------



## Elad

The Brazil/Chile game was pretty good, well done Howard Webb. Still not totally sure about the Hulk goal though. 

Alexis really showing how good he is, kind of like Neymar for Brazil it seems they really are handcuffed at barca by the style of play, hoping he does make a move (probably to juve) so we can watch him at his best. dat dribbling.

Didn't get to see the Colombia game but they are proving to be the real dark horse, although Belgium can still spring a surprise on anyone. Its great to see James getting a bigger audience, even after his 45mil move to monaco he was still kind of under the radar. At least we can see him in the CL next season, would love to see him in la liga/pl but can't see anyone paying the 50mil+ req.


----------



## Fooza

*ORANJE* vs MEXICO tomorrow, can't wait


----------



## PGVan

I will say that Brasil got lucky. I'm still not impressed with them so far at this World Cup. It would not shock me to see Colombia beat them in the QF. 

I hate to be a downer (really) and I do admire Chile's passion. That said, I didn't see the big bad Chile that were supposed to go far in this tournament. Before their match with us (Nederland), all we heard was that they were so talented and it would be impossible to hold them off. We ended up dragging them around like a cat chasing a string. If Chile had true world class finishing (or anyone who can take a penalty), they would have won today. 

Enough of that business. Oranje is up next. I have my Bavaria in the fridge. I am ready for Mexico! As long as we approach the match with confidence and focus, we will be just fine! :clap


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Cool start to the knock-outs. Chile played well and could have very well wrapped up the game many times. But I always felt winning in penalties are hard against Brazil who don't miss much usually. That was about to be proved wrong today...
Betting on Costa Rica tomorrow. As for Mexico, a lot might depend on who scores first, if at all. The Mexican team seems to thrive on confidence and if they can get 1 up, it might be a hard catch up for Oranje....


----------



## PGVan

pazuzuinxs said:


> Betting on Costa Rica tomorrow. As for Mexico, a lot might depend on who scores first, if at all. The Mexican team seems to thrive on confidence and if they can get 1 up, it might be a hard catch up for Oranje....


Totally biased... but if Oranje keep their current style, formation and focus, I find it hard to see Mexico getting much for a scoring opportunity. They didn't score on Croatia until they were paying zero attention to defending. We also gave Chile nothing when they were supposed to be able to cut through our back line at will.

I see Mexico a lot like Chile. Tons of passion. They play at 100% all the time. They have elite talent, but not much for world class in my opinion. It's knockout football, anything can happen in one match, but I have to believe that if Mexico wins, it will be because they caught Oranje on an off-day.


----------



## markwalters2

Suarez Bit My Finger... this went viral alright..


----------



## Royals

Columbia and Rodriguez are fantastic. I really hope either Columbia or Costa Rica wins the tournament (the deserve it, and I like surprises). France, Germany and Nederland deserve it also. I can see Brazil losing against Columbia also, they got lucky one time, not again. Plus the team depends too much on Neymar. I don't see Mexico winning. They are good but not world class and always fall short. But I really hope it will be an exciting match, and not a walk over.


----------



## Gavroche

I am so excited to see what sort of crazy energy gets released from Miguel Herrera today.


----------



## starsfreak

Imagine the World Cup in Qatar..


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Not the best Netherlands effort up there till now.


----------



## PGVan

For once I can't tell what we're doing. I cannot figure out if we're just being patient and conserving energy due to the heat (on that note, take 2022 away from Qatar NOW), or if we really are that lost without Nigel de Jong. 

Always knew this one wasn't going to be easy. Crossing my fingers for the 2nd half!


----------



## starsfreak

NOW this could turn in an interesting game.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Gyaahhh...Oranje had it coming...but they are building some tempo now...
^ So who will end up being the lord of the flies?


----------



## Milco

Mexico must feel pretty confident when they substitute their goal scorer and one of their main players after just 60 minutes.
And they do so at a point in the game where the Netherlands are having a lot of chances. I don't understand it at all. If the Netherlands score, it can cost them.


----------



## PGVan

However this ends, nothing but pride. Any other tournament, we would have folded like a cheap tent going down 1-0. 

Wesley Sneijder, I love you!


----------



## minimized

That was a flush strike by Sneijder. Forgetting 2010. And here's a penalty. Sorry Mexico. You were valiant.


----------



## starsfreak

Was only a matter of time. If not in regulation time then Holland would've scored at least once in ET.

That it all happened in the last 5 min makes me feel kinda sad for Mexico.


----------



## Milco

I think Mexico had deserved to be among the final 8, but the Netherlands deserved it more - though not their best game today. I thought Chile had played well as well and deserved to be in the final 8, but sometimes good teams meet each other too early on.
Meanwhile, the next game is Costa Rica against Greece, and while Costa Rica have been surprisingly good, Greece haven't really deserved to be where they are (Sorry, Greece!).

I was very impressed by some of the Mexican players though and think they can be proud of their performance overall.
But I do think it was a mistake to take out Dos Santos.


----------



## PGVan

That is now 4 wins for Louis van Gaal! Even after going down 1-0, we did not start pressing until he brought on Depay for Verhaegh and changed tactics. I really do believe he had Oranje sit back and conserve energy in that deadly heat. Once we started pressing forward with more pace, Mexico was finished. Ochoa was the only reason it wasn't 4-1 in the end. 

Now we go back to Salvador. Brasil is always hot, but it won't be like this. Greece or Costa Rica will likely try the same defensive approach. If Nigel de Jong is not healthy, I see LVG going 4-3-3, giving Depay a start. He's ****ing earned it!

HUP HOLLAND!!!!!


----------



## pazuzuinxs

A bit of a harsh penalty in the end, but with one denied before I would say all's fair. And Mexico just lost it after their strike, going to a defensive shell. That is not how Netherlands can be contained. Good win and I am sure Netherlands should at least go to the SF's. 
I am all support for Greece. They can amaze at times and feel Costa Rica has already outplayed their potential. High time the law of averages catches up...


----------



## PGVan

I hope Oranje aren't watching how horrible Greece and Costa Rica are. It might increase the risk of being overconfident in the QF. Knowing who we will play is the only reason I haven't changed the channel from this snoozer. Another half-hour of it too!

Just stay focused Oranje... focused!


----------



## Royals

I still hope Costa Rica or Columbia wins the tournament. I also think Netherlands didn't deserve to win.


----------



## markwalters2

Interview with Brazil fan..


----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> I still hope Costa Rica or Columbia wins the tournament. I also think Netherlands didn't deserve to win.


Howcome? We scored twice, they scored once. I do not understand the "deserved to win" or "didn't deserve to win" when the results proved otherwise. If Mexico deserved to win, they would have.

Oranje definitely deserved to win and after the tactical change, Mexico was very lucky to not have lost 4-1.


----------



## Aribeth

Bleh... never liked Netherlands...


----------



## Gavroche

I'm not ready to have miguel herrera out of my life


----------



## Royals

PGVan said:


> Howcome? We scored twice, they scored once. I do not understand the "deserved to win" or "didn't deserve to win" when the results proved otherwise. If Mexico deserved to win, they would have.
> 
> Oranje definitely deserved to win and after the tactical change, Mexico was very lucky to not have lost 4-1.


Because Mexico was the better team for about 90 minutes and their goalie was excellent. Plus Robben got a penalty. 1-1 would have been fair. This scoring in the last minutes kind of style is tiring from Nederland. Netherlands plays really difficult against harder teams Australia, Mexico, so what are they going to do against Germany or France?


----------



## Crimson Lotus

So many upsets, it would be quite amusing if Costa Rice and/or Colombia manage to get into the semis or if the US beats Belgium.


----------



## gunner21

Royals said:


> Because Mexico was the better team for about 90 minutes and their goalie was excellent. Plus Robben got a penalty. 1-1 would have been fair. This scoring in the last minutes kind of style is tiring from Nederland. Netherlands plays really difficult against harder teams Australia, Mexico, so what are they going to do against Germany or France?


Didn't see the game, so can't comment which team was better, but so what if Holland won through a penalty last minute? A penalty is a penalty is a penalty. Doesn't matter if it's in 1st minute or last minute. And it was a clear penalty. Also, score can't stay 1-1 in knockout games.


----------



## Elad

Mexico looked better until a bit into the second half, then it was all netherlands coming forward in waves. I think they deserved to win in the end, and had it gone into extra time they looked the more likely. Probably a poor decision subbing dos santos so early losing an attacking outlet.

Also the whole Robben diving is getting blown out of proportion by americans/media(over here at least). Yes he was over dramatic and made himself look stupid, but it was still a penalty. Mexican player went full potato on that challenge and caught him, not for the first time either. Lets not act like any of the mexican players wouldn't have done the same give the circumstances.. hell any player in any team. Unfortunately this is what football is like until they decide to really crack down on "flopping" and exaggerated falls.

I'm hoping France win 3-2 just so we can see a lot of goals but more realistically it'll probably be 1-0 or 2-1 max with both teams playing cautiously. Fingers crossed we get a early goal in both games so they have to open up. (inb4 completely wrong)

Germany 3-0.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

Robben is a pathetic cheat.


----------



## Elad

Donnie in the Dark said:


> Robben is a pathetic cheat.


If we're going by that pretty much every modern day footballer is. Only difference is hes good enough to get into those potential penalty rewarding situations consistently.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

Elad said:


> If we're going by that pretty much every modern day footballer is. Only difference is hes good enough to get into these potential penalty rewarding situations consistently.


 Contact is allowed, it's not a non-contact sport. Yes, there are a number of cheats, but not everyone.


----------



## Elad

Donnie in the Dark said:


> Contact is allowed, it's not a non-contact sport. Yes, there are a number of cheats, but not everyone.


And you're allowed to go down when you feel contact. Its sad but its how it is, if sanctioning bodies wanted to crack down they could, but they haven't so the rules are going to be stretched and loopholed as much as possible without getting carded. This isn't just a football/robben thing, this is every sport and especially in professional football _every_ game. You seriously can't watch a game without at lest 5 players going down under minimal contact at some point for an advantage because they can. The players are playing within what is allowed, its up to the higher ups to change that.

Don't hate the player hate the game basically.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

Elad said:


> And you're allowed to go down when you feel contact. Its sad but its how it is, if sanctioning bodies wanted to crack down they could, but they haven't so the rules are going to be stretched and loopholed as much as possible without getting carded. This isn't just a football/robben thing, this is every sport and especially in professional football _every_ game. You seriously can't watch a game without at lest 5 players going down under minimal contact at some point for an advantage because they can. The players are playing within what is allowed, its up to the higher ups to change that.
> 
> Don't hate the player hate the game basically.


 I get your point, but I think that kind of sentiment does a disservice to all of the players who don't cheat. Also, diving is worse that just "going down easily". Robben's was a dive- no contact until he deliberately kicked his leg against the defender's.


----------



## gunner21

Donnie in the Dark said:


> I get your point, but I think that kind of sentiment does a disservice to all of the players who don't cheat. Also, diving is worse that just "going down easily". Robben's was a dive- no contact until he deliberately kicked his leg against the defender's.


Same thing happens in pretty much over ever sport. (looking for contact to gain advantage) The greatest basketball player in the world right now, Lebron James live on the free throw line because he runs into contact on purpose.


----------



## masterridley

Oh wow, just saw the replays on BBC and Robben dived not once, not twice but thrice. And it was pretty obvious in my eyes that they were all fake. You can tell by the movement of the body as it's falling down.

It's a disgrace when players do that. And it doesn't matter that yes, nominally the defender's foot was touching his.


----------



## gunner21




----------



## Elad

lol not sure if srs people saying its not a penalty. you stand on another players foot missing the ball in the box stopping him and its a pen. whether he went down in a ballerina dance or went limp doesn't matter.


----------



## masterridley

I would give the penalty but I would also hand out a red card for diving.

Come on, it's incredibly obvious that he's diving. That sh.it has to stop.

Anyway. Off to see FRA-NIG


----------



## gunner21

masterridley said:


> I would give the penalty but I would also hand out a red card for diving.
> 
> Come on, it's incredibly obvious that he's diving. That sh.it has to stop.
> 
> Anyway. Off to see FRA-NIG


Well, I wouldn't blame him considering he got denied a perfect penalty in 1st half. (from what I hear)


----------



## masterridley

Did Nigeria just commit suicide or is it my imagination?

A silly mistake from an otherwise good goalkeeper, then the other guy gives away a totally unnecessary corner which his team mate manages to convert into a (own) goal.

Great!


----------



## Canadian Brotha

It took time but France got through, too bad for Nigeria though, almost made it to extra time


----------



## Fooza

Well played Algeria, if only the final ball was there, they could have sneaked a win.

I still can't tell if Muller was acting in that free kick or if it was a genuine fall.


----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> Because Mexico was the better team for about 90 minutes and their goalie was excellent. Plus Robben got a penalty. 1-1 would have been fair. This scoring in the last minutes kind of style is tiring from Nederland. Netherlands plays really difficult against harder teams Australia, Mexico, so what are they going to do against Germany or France?


Mexico was the better team for about 50 minutes. When they scored, Mexico quit playing. van Gaal switched to 4-3-3 by bringing on Depay for Verhaegh and Holland utterly dominated the match from there. If not for Ochoa, the score would have been 4-1. Robben was fouled in the box. The penalty was fair regardless of his embellishment. Also, don't forget about the heat in Fortaleza. It was 40 degrees on the pitch! Holland were the fittest team on the day.

I don't care what kind of style we play. Whatever wins. That's all that matters. We have 90 minutes (or 120 if necessary) to score once more than the opponent (or else you have to play the pressured penalty lottery). As for your question, I think we got the answer against Spain.

I love Oranje, but I will never understand the pessimism that comes out of supporters in The Netherlands. A lot of my family is the same. All they want to do is look good and they go into every tournament knowing we will lose. The Cruyff attitude that looking good is more important than winning is why we still don't have a star on our shirts.

The Germans don't give a s*** how they look. Today is another example. It took them 120 minutes to beat Algeria, but they still won and are still in the QF and their fans still offer 100% support. Dutch supporters should be thrilled that this no-expectation team is in the QF with a legitimate shot to win the World Cup!



masterridley said:


> I would give the penalty but I would also hand out a red card for diving.


You can't give a red for diving. The laws of the game give referees authority to hand out yellow cards. There is also a reason why we rarely see yellow cards handed out for diving. Referees need to be 100% certain, and when they don't get the replays we all do, they need to be in the absolute perfect spot to see it. (I ref a similar sport - ice hockey - and we do have diving rules...but in 6-7 years since it came into my association's rulebook, I've called it 2-3 times. It's hard to tell for sure without help.) I would have had no problem with the penalty and a yellow for Robben, but it's no different than in 2010 when Puyol should have had a yellow for bear-hugging Robben on a break. Referee didn't call it, life goes on. Ironically, had Robben embellished and gone down, Webb likely makes the call and hands Puyol his 2nd yellow.

THAT is the root of the problem in football. Referees often don't call fouls unless the player goes down. You don't need to bring a player down to have fouled him. The sad part is that the problem has grown into some ugly diving. Some of which Robben has been guilty of (like many other players in this WC alone), but definitely not the Marquez foul that gave Holland the penalty.



gunner21 said:


> Well, I wouldn't blame him considering he got denied a perfect penalty in 1st half. (from what I hear)


He was. Marquez tripped him and Moreno came flying in so hard and cynically that he broke his own leg!


----------



## Ckg2011

Team USA vs Belgium tomorrow. 

I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win I believe that we will win


----------



## masterridley

PGVan said:


> ...
> I love Oranje, but I will never understand the pessimism that comes out of supporters in The Netherlands. A lot of my family is the same. All they want to do is look good and they go into every tournament knowing we will lose. The Cruyff attitude that looking good is more important than winning is why we still don't have a star on our shirts.


Really? I would definitely not be pessimistic if I were Dutch! This is one of the finest generations they've ever put out on the field if you ask my opinion. Robben, Sneijder, van Persie et al, so much quality. And I think they've learned their lessons from previous tournaments, since they've become quite more cynical.

IMO they're going to reach the finals one way or the other. If they don't, I would be very very disappointed in them. Just see the teams on their side of the board, only Argentina has a "heavy shirt" and they're in an awful condition (if it weren't for Messi...)

On the other side, you have Colombia(!), Brazil (favourites for obvious reasons), Germany and France (latter two always a contender). I can easily see any of them holding the trophy!

I predict Brazil - Netherlands for the final.

(if refs are fair, then substitute Colombia for Brazil)


----------



## PGVan

Not trying to bug, but I can't stand the "if the refs are fair" theories either. Match officials work as hard as the players to make the World Cup and go as far as they can. They're not going to help Brasil by being biased or unfair. Teams who whine about s*** like that are nothing but whiners looking for excuses for their own poor performance.

What I've observed is that most other teams are relying on one player to score their goals. Brasil is relying on Neymar to score goals. Colombia is relying on Rodriguez to score goals, Argentina is relying on Messi to score goals. Of the main contenders left (in my opinion), Holland, Germany, and to a lesser extent, France are the only ones who seem to have multiple goal-scoring weapons.


----------



## masterridley

Well, to be fair, it's to be expected that the hosts will get a little push here and there. As long as it's not egregious like in the first match, I have no problem with that. Believe me, I don't like talking about refs either.

You're right that most other teams are one-sided. If one manages to shut down Messi for instance, Argentina is practically done. The thing is how do you do that? And if you do it successfully, won't you leave open spaces for the other talented players like Higuain, Aguero etc? (Let's not forget that Argentina finished in top place in qualifying, that says something)


----------



## PGVan

masterridley said:


> Well, to be fair, it's to be expected that the hosts will get a little push here and there. As long as it's not egregious like in the first match, I have no problem with that. Believe me, I don't like talking about refs either.
> 
> You're right that most other teams are one-sided. If one manages to shut down Messi for instance, Argentina is practically done. The thing is how do you do that? And if you do it successfully, won't you leave open spaces for the other talented players like Higuain, Aguero etc? (Let's not forget that Argentina finished in top place in qualifying, that says something)


I still won't buy any of the referee help talk at this level. Bad decisions happen, but they are just that. Holland had 2 penalties given against them that were bad decisions, Antonio Valencia got a ridiculous red card, and there have been more bad decisions at this tournament... be it due to a referee simply getting it wrong or not having the best point of view. (I think a second referee on the pitch is a great idea.)

The only pre-determined cheating going on is match fixing. I see Cameroun is likely in trouble for their matches.

As for how to stop the one-man teams... we shall see when Messi and Rodriguez come across a team with a well-organized and effective defensive system. Neymar saw it against Mexico. 0-0 was the result there. I'm sure Bosnia, Nigeria and Iran tried their best to contain Messi and left other guys open. I've seen nothing but misfires from Di Maria and Higuain. Aguero is now injured as well.


----------



## Elad

Shaqiri playing like a man who knows hes in the shop window.  Bringing out the tekkers. Not a whole lot from argentina so far.


----------



## Elad

Garbage game. Almost fell asleep multiple times, but in the end the best pulls through for the assist..










Di maria been so awful, that failed rabona.. I don't even..


----------



## PGVan

Feel bad for the Swiss. They contained Messi rather well for 118 minutes. Had they had just one nose for the net in a pressured situation, they would have gotten the job done!


----------



## masterridley

The US is unlucky to be playing the best Belgian team in decades.

I don't think they'll be able to contain them for 30 mins (IF it reaches over time)


----------



## masterridley

oh wow

that's what happens when you miss all your chances


----------



## masterridley

De BRuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeee!


----------



## masterridley

What's a spud ol' chap? urban dict says 'potato'

Edit: that's all folks!
rooting for Belgium against arg


----------



## Aribeth

Go home USA uke


----------



## masterridley

this is ridiculous


----------



## PGVan

Tim Howard has been good, we all know that... but how Belgium has only 2 goals is beyond me. Their finishing is mid-table quality. The miss at the end of 90 for the US also shows the lower level quality that the MLS still is. Although Dempsey is back in MLS now, he's played at the top and I have to believe he finishes what Wondolowski couldn't. You have THAT on your foot to save your bacon after getting thrashed all game and you put it wide. :blank

I see the US got one back... fresh legs. Could end up burning Belgium's own lack of finish.


----------



## PGVan

In a Lonely Place said:


> USA deserve a lot of credit for their performances in this WC, shame to see them go really.


I dunno, I just watched a match that Belgium should have won by 5-6 goals. The US plays with spirit, but that doesn't win you anything if you don't have the quality to back it up.


----------



## masterridley

Belgians looked like they were shell shocked. I'm sure they were already thinking of their hotel 20 mins before the end.

USA played their hearts out. Very good Yedlin+Green. That free kick trick, wow.

disclosure: I love Belgium since I saw them vs Russia.


----------



## PGVan

In a Lonely Place said:


> Should have = Didn't.


That doesn't work lol. I'm judging by what happened. Just because Belgium didn't win by 5-6 goals when they should have, doesn't mean they didn't utterly dominate the match. It's not a "what if".


----------



## PGVan

You did when you quoted my "what if" statement. 

Yes, lots of teams have dominated matches and lost and the results always tell us what each team deserved. That said, had the USA managed to win today, I would have classified it as lucky as well. I just can't give much credit to the USA when the shots directed at goal were 37-13 in Belgium's favour. Belgium played a s***load better than the USA, but their own poor finishing almost did them in. 

Don't get me wrong, I love a team with spirit, but spirit alone doesn't get you very far.


----------



## masterridley

Lucky USA = another way of saying bad finishing for Belgium.

There's really no luck involved on the pitch. The ball goes exactly where you kick it. It's not dice.

Conclusion: if USA had gone through, they would've deserved it. ALTHOUGH we know that Belgians are more talented overall.


----------



## Elad

Was belgium/usa a good game? missed it. 

edit; just looking at some stats and seeing 39 shots for belgium. wat. lot from range?

best site for post match anal (  ): http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/836751/Live/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2014-Belgium-USA


----------



## Jammer25

Bradley pissed me off so much. He played like he was constipated the entire tournament. 

Wondo's chance was golden, if he finished it the US would be playing Argentina instead.


----------



## sebastian1

In a Lonely Place said:


> You might but others would have said the usa defended brilliantly and they would be right


:no the way I see it, Howard got to set that record because because Team USA's defense was abysmal

Oh, and did you guys hear Klinsmann cursing at the fourth official at the end? "HOW THE **** IS THAT ONE MINUTE?!" :lol


----------



## PGVan

Elad said:


> Was belgium/usa a good game? missed it.
> 
> edit; just looking at some stats and seeing 39 shots for belgium. wat. lot from range?


No, Tim Howard was the reason the first 90 minutes didn't finish 4-0 or worse. He is quality. The defending in front of him was far slower than Belgium's forward pace.

The goalkeeper is part of the defence, but only in the sense that he's the last line. You can't take a goalkeeper bailing his defence out to say they performed well as a whole.


----------



## boas

I wasn't really that hot on Belgium pre tournament, despite the hype. They have no full backs, nor a prolific striker (Lukaku's record at international level is pretty poor, though the caveat is that he's been accumulating caps since 17). In fact they don't have many goals in their side in general, but they've overcome that by being solid in defence. I'm tempted to say that they'll beat Argentina but my predictions have all been terrible so far.


----------



## gunner21

PGVan said:


> Yes, lots of teams have dominated matches and lost and the results always tell us what each team deserved. *That said, had the USA managed to win today, I would have classified it as lucky as well.* I just can't give much credit to the USA when the shots directed at goal were 37-13 in Belgium's favour


.


PGVan said:


> Howcome? We scored twice, they scored once. I do not understand the "deserved to win" or "didn't deserve to win" when the results proved otherwise. If Mexico deserved to win, they would have.


----------



## PGVan

Lets compare some telling match facts from NED-MEX and BEL-USA..

NED-MEX
Shots: 14-12 NED
On Target: 8-7 NED
Corners: 10-2 NED

Watch the match, and you will also know that the last 20-30 minutes were thoroughly controlled by Holland. 

BEL-USA
Shots: 38-14 BEL
On Target: 27-9 BEL
Corners: 19-4 BEL

While the shots were more even in NED-MEX than BEL-USA, to suggest that Holland got lucky against Mexico is simply wrong. Judging by the way that match was going, had there been an extra half hour, the numbers would have likely resembled Belgium's dominance over USA. Had the USA overcome those numbers to win, that would have been lucky.

Lets also not confuse lucky with not deserving to win. You can deserve to win with your opponent having better statistics. That would have been the case had Holland not gotten the goals at the end. Mexico would have deserved it, yet got lucky at the same time. Gotta be good to be lucky, and sometimes lucky to be good.

I'm not saying the USA isn't a good team, but on this day, aside from Tim Howard, they certainly were not.


----------



## Winds

Tim Howard. Don't even need to add anything else. After his performance, from here on out you should be reminded of high quality, top class, and elite keeping, every time you see his name. Overall, the team gave everything they had for 120 minutes and left it all on the field. At the point we're at as a soccer nation, that's really all you can ask for at this moment. Had a few chances, but over the course of the game it became obvious that we lack that next level skill. Even with all of that said, we were still in with a chance at the end. That set piece we tried in extra time would have been talked about for years to come if we had pulled it off.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

That was a great game. I love TH, he's been great for Everton. I liked the USA team, they really put the effort in.


----------



## Paper Samurai

America have been the only team this tournament that I've enjoyed watching in every one of their games. Sad to see them go out.


----------



## Royals

Great tournament so far with a goals record. Some surprises: Columbia, Costa Rica, Belgium... Let's make some predictions for the difficult quarter finals:

Brasil - Columbia 1-1 Brasil goes through with penalties being the favorite.
Netherlands - Costa Rica 1-1/2-1 Netherlands in extra time 2-1 with 
determination.

France - Germany 1-1 Germany takes the win 2-1 in extra time.
Argentina - Belgium 1-0/1-1 Argentina wins 2-1 in extra time.


So semi finals should be: Brasil - Netherlands These could be both penalties
Germany - Argentina 

Final: Netherlands - Germany.


I probably have all these wrong


----------



## Crimson Lotus

France - Germany : I'd say 60% Germany winning, neither team seems to be in top form but Germany seems to be a little better.

Brazil - Colombia : 66% Brazil winning, if Colombia is ever going to beat Brazil in a WC is going to be this time but they're against the locals and individually Brazil has more talent.

Argentina - Belgium: 50-50, in theory Argentina is a better team but they seem to be just a bunch of talented individual players and not a very good team as a whole.

Netherlands - Costa Rica: 80% win for Netherlands, in regular conditions it would be more like 95% but Costa Rica has been playing way above their level.


----------



## sad vlad

I enjoyed this match. They spared no effort, really put their hearts and souls into it, very dynamic, especially in the end, many chances, a very good goalkeeper. One of the best matches so far.

I want a european team to win, or Costa Rica(simply because of the huge surprise). I don't want Brazil to win it.


----------



## pazuzuinxs

Would love Costa Rica to win through now, but it is a tall order. At least Brazil or Argentina should not get the title again. Germany have been professional but the glimpses of genius is not there at , though it is high time for a win for them.
Prediction:-
Costa Rica vs Netherlands---1-0 Netherlands in extra time
Brazil vs Columbia---2-1 Brazil
Argentina vs Belgium---1-1 and Argentina wins in penalties
Germany vs France---3-1 France

But then again, things could be very different...


----------



## Fooza

My predictions for QF's:

Brazil vs Columbia: Brazil
France vs Germany: Germany
Netherlands vs Costa Rica: Netherlands
Argentina vs Belgium: Argentina

SF's:

Brazil vs Germany: Germany
Netherlands vs Argentina: Argentina

Final:

Germany vs Argentina: Germany

Argentina will need to step up a few more gears if they are to reach the final, which I think they may find. Otherwise I still back the Germans to win the final. At the start of the tournament I had them or Spain (lol) favourites to win.


----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> Great tournament so far with a goals record. Some surprises: Columbia, Costa Rica, Belgium... Let's make some predictions for the difficult quarter finals:
> 
> Brasil - Columbia 1-1 Brasil goes through with penalties being the favorite.
> Netherlands - Costa Rica 1-1/2-1 Netherlands in extra time 2-1 with
> determination.
> 
> France - Germany 1-1 Germany takes the win 2-1 in extra time.
> Argentina - Belgium 1-0/1-1 Argentina wins 2-1 in extra time.
> 
> So semi finals should be: Brasil - Netherlands These could be both penalties
> Germany - Argentina
> 
> Final: Netherlands - Germany.
> 
> I probably have all these wrong


You have the semi-finals backwards. FRA/DEU plays BRA/COL... NED/CRC plays ARG/BEL.

I don't normally do predictions with scores, but what the hell...

Brasil 1-2 Colombia (I've been told quite rudely by Colombians to spell it right lol)

Netherlands 4-0 Costa Rica

France 1-1 Germany (Coin flip who wins penalties.)

Argentina 1-2 Belgium

I respect Costa Rica and they did win their group. Full marks. However, I also think that Italy, Uruguay and England all played well below their respective standards and great job to CRC for taking advantage. That said, if Greece had any elite finishing up front, they would have scored half a dozen goals, especially after CRC went to 10 men. Duarte (red card) and Miller (foot) are both defenders they do not have available. Having 2 starting defenders out against Robben, v.Persie and Sneijder, when you are already that much of an underdog, is a recipe for disaster. As long as Oranje keep their focus and do not take them lightly, I can't see this one being close. The clock will strike midnight on Cinderella. THAT SAID, I do think Oranje needs to score early to open it up to the point of scoring 4 goals. The longer the match stays scoreless, the better for Costa Rica.

Brasil have the host factor in their favour. They will be looking to neutralize Rodriguez just as Colombia will be looking to neutralize Neymar. Both teams are relying on one player to get them to glory, so I flipped a coin here. I am not so confident in Brasil's defence.

France v Germany. Very similar in quality and determination. I'm taking the easy way out and saying it will go to penalties.

Argentina is another team relying on one player to lead them to the World Cup title. No disrespect to Di Maria, but he also relies on Messi to set him up. If Belgium can somehow contain Messi, they have a chance. It isn't impossible. The Swiss did it for 118 minutes, they just couldn't score for themselves. Gotta have an upset pick!


----------



## Royals

PGVan said:


> You have the semi-finals backwards. FRA/DEU plays BRA/COL... NED/CRC plays ARG/BEL.
> 
> I don't normally do predictions with scores, but what the hell...
> 
> Brasil 1-2 Colombia (I've been told quite rudely by Colombians to spell it right lol)
> 
> Netherlands 4-0 Costa Rica
> 
> France 1-1 Germany (Coin flip who wins penalties.)
> 
> Argentina 1-2 Belgium
> 
> I respect Costa Rica and they did win their group. Full marks. However, I also think that Italy, Uruguay and England all played well below their respective standards and great job to CRC for taking advantage. That said, if Greece had any elite finishing up front, they would have scored half a dozen goals, especially after CRC went to 10 men. Duarte (red card) and Miller (foot) are both defenders they do not have available. Having 2 starting defenders out against Robben, v.Persie and Sneijder, when you are already that much of an underdog, is a recipe for disaster. As long as Oranje keep their focus and do not take them lightly, I can't see this one being close. The clock will strike midnight on Cinderella. THAT SAID, I do think Oranje needs to score early to open it up to the point of scoring 4 goals. The longer the match stays scoreless, the better for Costa Rica.
> 
> Brasil have the host factor in their favour. They will be looking to neutralize Rodriguez just as Colombia will be looking to neutralize Neymar. Both teams are relying on one player to get them to glory, so I flipped a coin here. I am not so confident in Brasil's defence.
> 
> France v Germany. Very similar in quality and determination. I'm taking the easy way out and saying it will go to penalties.
> 
> Argentina is another team relying on one player to lead them to the World Cup title. No disrespect to Di Maria, but he also relies on Messi to set him up. If Belgium can somehow contain Messi, they have a chance. It isn't impossible. The Swiss did it for 118 minutes, they just couldn't score for themselves. Gotta have an upset pick!


I have equal scores with all games since these are the quarter finals. And most of the time later on in the tournament it's very hard to score many goals, and the competition will be much harder. Let's be honest, Netherlands hasn't really been tested so far. Spain was in horrible shape, and Australia, Chile and Mexico are good teams but not the top. Netherlands can play pretty good against real semi-top teams (Australia, Chile, Mexico) but still just win. So, what will happen against top teams like Germany or Brasil? Netherlands always have fell short before so I don't think even against Costa Rica it will be easy. Certainly not in the quarter finals.


----------



## markwalters2

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...uis-Suarez-bottle-opener-bite-open-beers.html


----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> I have equal scores with all games since these are the quarter finals. And most of the time later on in the tournament it's very hard to score many goals, and the competition will be much harder. Let's be honest, Netherlands hasn't really been tested so far. Spain was in horrible shape, and Australia, Chile and Mexico are good teams but not the top. Netherlands can play pretty good against real semi-top teams (Australia, Chile, Mexico) but still just win. So, what will happen against top teams like Germany or Brasil? Netherlands always have fell short before so I don't think even against Costa Rica it will be easy. Certainly not in the quarter finals.


I think Oranje have been tested more than you give credit for. Spain were in horrible shape, but not until Robin van Persie scored. Until then, it was all Spain. Australia's quality was lacking aside from Cahill. We gave Australia a chance to win and that was our wake up call. Chile was supposed to beat us according to the whole world and Oranje toyed with them. Against Mexico, we were not the better team for the first 50 minutes, then we changed tactics and took over the game. You might say we "just won" because of the 2-1 score and the late goals, but I saw the last half hour completely dominated by Oranje. The ONLY reason we didn't score 4-5 goals in that last half hour was Ochoa. In the end, it's not about how you win, it's just about winning.

As for Costa Rica, they had to play Uruguay without Suarez, Italy at perhaps the worst we've ever seen them and a scoreless draw with a poor England team who were already out. Greece was then likely the worst team they've played so far. Any team with any finish at all would have destroyed Costa Rica last week. I'm not saying it will be easy for Oranje, but as long as the focus is there, I see no reason for our quality to not make the final score to resemble the match against Spain. If we "just won" against Australia, Chile and Mexico... Costa Rica has "just won" against poor Uruguay, poor Italy, and drawn with poor England and Greece. (Penalties are a mix of luck, skill and mental stability.) Like I said, I respect Costa Rica for their determination, but they've also scored 5 goals in 4 matches in a World Cup that I think will be won by the best performing strikers in the end.

Oranje haven't ALWAYS fallen short against the world's top teams either. The only match they have never won is the WC Final. Just 4 years ago, the whole world said we would get drilled by Brasil in the QF. What happened? We lost the final in the 116th minute against Spain. Of all the "top teams", Oranje has performed the best as a team so far in Brasil (in my opinion anyway). Brasil look weak and rely on Neymar. Argentina look weak and rely on Messi. Colombia are playing alright but are also relying on Rodriguez. Germany hasn't played their best yet either and now they have the flu. France could definitely beat them! Robben/v.Persie are just as good as the aforementioned players in terms of scoring goals and we have better coaching without question.

As I mentioned before, I cannot stand the pessimism there is about Oranje from people in The Netherlands. I wish there would be more positivity and passion from the supporters over there. Will we win? Who knows. We might not, but if we don't, I don't see this QF as the time. I am confident, but I also don't think we're invincible. I just think we are capable of winning the World Cup. It would be nice if more Oranje supporters actually felt that way too!


----------



## markwalters2

In a Lonely Place said:


> Quality item


There is another quality one that is a nipple clamp...


----------



## Folded Edge

At least the 2nd game today was well worth watching. :yes

The Brazil - Columbia game was pretty frenetic but great. Some of the challenges on Neymar where pretty much terrible but that last one was f**king horrific.

"A team doctor confirmed the Barcelona player fractured a vertebra in his back." 
He is now reportedly out of the world cup :| Shocking stuff.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28173132


----------



## Dark Light

WTF Brazil


----------



## markwalters2

In a Lonely Place said:


> I'll pass on the nipple clamps thanks :sus


I understand. Nobody wants to have their nipple bitten off by Suarez..


----------



## gunner21

Feel bad for Neymar.


----------



## PGVan

The Round of 16 through the QF for that part of the bracket was basically Copa America. Typical South American football with a lot of dangerous tackles. Zuniga should have had at least a yellow card and Julio Cesar's tackle for the penalty was a borderline sending off as well. 

This WC is wide, wide open still. Regardless of who wins, the remaining QFs, SF and Final will be entertaining. 

Somewhat off-topic, can anyone tell me why FIFA bothers with the 3rd place game?


----------



## boas

I wouldn't rule Brazil out, Fred is a lot better than he is given credit for. If they go direct into him with early balls from Oscar and Paulinho they can still carry a potent goal threat. There are only two games left after all.


----------



## Zack

A photo on BBC website this morning with bizarre caption:










Caption: "The forward was in *obvious* pain after the incident"

I don't think the word 'obvious' is appropriate here as Neymar [pictured] is as guilty as most other footballers of writhing around on the ground feigning injury when an opponent so much as brushes against them.

I wish Neymar a speedy recovery.


----------



## Zack

In a Lonely Place said:


> Totally, even with the crying while on the stretcher I wasn't 100% sure he was hurt lol. Brazil are notorious for play acting, last nights match had the most fouls in WC2014 I believe. Hope they don't do that to stop the Germans playing. :no


No Neymar in semi against Germany _and_ Brazil's captain is suspended after he received another yellow card yesterday. The Germans must be delighted.


----------



## Gavroche

The Neymar injury is a real back-breaker for Brazil. Who's going to step up and put the team on their back against Germany?


----------



## Royals

PGVan said:


> I think Oranje have been tested more than you give credit for. Spain were in horrible shape, but not until Robin van Persie scored. Until then, it was all Spain. Australia's quality was lacking aside from Cahill. We gave Australia a chance to win and that was our wake up call. Chile was supposed to beat us according to the whole world and Oranje toyed with them. Against Mexico, we were not the better team for the first 50 minutes, then we changed tactics and took over the game. You might say we "just won" because of the 2-1 score and the late goals, but I saw the last half hour completely dominated by Oranje. The ONLY reason we didn't score 4-5 goals in that last half hour was Ochoa. In the end, it's not about how you win, it's just about winning.
> 
> As for Costa Rica, they had to play Uruguay without Suarez, Italy at perhaps the worst we've ever seen them and a scoreless draw with a poor England team who were already out. Greece was then likely the worst team they've played so far. Any team with any finish at all would have destroyed Costa Rica last week. I'm not saying it will be easy for Oranje, but as long as the focus is there, I see no reason for our quality to not make the final score to resemble the match against Spain. If we "just won" against Australia, Chile and Mexico... Costa Rica has "just won" against poor Uruguay, poor Italy, and drawn with poor England and Greece. (Penalties are a mix of luck, skill and mental stability.) Like I said, I respect Costa Rica for their determination, but they've also scored 5 goals in 4 matches in a World Cup that I think will be won by the best performing strikers in the end.
> 
> Oranje haven't ALWAYS fallen short against the world's top teams either. The only match they have never won is the WC Final. Just 4 years ago, the whole world said we would get drilled by Brasil in the QF. What happened? We lost the final in the 116th minute against Spain. Of all the "top teams", Oranje has performed the best as a team so far in Brasil (in my opinion anyway). Brasil look weak and rely on Neymar. Argentina look weak and rely on Messi. Colombia are playing alright but are also relying on Rodriguez. Germany hasn't played their best yet either and now they have the flu. France could definitely beat them! Robben/v.Persie are just as good as the aforementioned players in terms of scoring goals and we have better coaching without question.
> 
> As I mentioned before, I cannot stand the pessimism there is about Oranje from people in The Netherlands. I wish there would be more positivity and passion from the supporters over there. Will we win? Who knows. We might not, but if we don't, I don't see this QF as the time. I am confident, but I also don't think we're invincible. I just think we are capable of winning the World Cup. It would be nice if more Oranje supporters actually felt that way too!


I rather call it realism. I rather be realistic than dissapointed again. Ofcourse they have a chance, but so do Germany, Argentina, Belgium and Brasil. And I think Rodrgiuez, Neymar and Robben are the best scorers so far.


----------



## Elad

Missed the first 10 minutes and of course miss a goal. -_-

Hopefully it makes for an open entertaining game!


----------



## Crimson Lotus

Poor Neymar lmao.


----------



## Zack

Bert Trautmann (goalkeeper) played the last 15 minutes of the 1956 FA Cup Final with a broken neck. During that 15 minutes he made some crucial saves. Neymar needs some backbone...


----------



## googleamiable

i thought colombia and belgium would win

so, inevitably wrong predictions: can't see brazil having enough without silva and neymar vs germany. 

germany vs holland or argentina, pretty much a 50/50


----------



## gunner21

WOW Van Persie. Missed 2 glorious chances.


----------



## Royals

i told you it was going to be hard. Oh man penalties.


----------



## gunner21

^ Why? He's the hero today.


----------



## Folded Edge

Possibly the strangest / bravest management call I've ever seen - bringing on a substitute keeper for a penalty shoot out !?!?! WTF!?! 
I was cheering for Costa Rica to win from before half time. Slow starter of a game but it just got better and better. Craziness :yes
Costa Rica can go home with their heads held high for sure.


----------



## Milco

Not the most comfortable of victories, but it was the right team that went through in the end.
I think the Netherlands should have sealed it in normal time though. They should have made some changes, and especially van Persie kept running into off-side - though it doesn't help that the linesman made the wrong call on a fair few occasions.


----------



## Fooza

:lol:lol:lol The balls on Van Gaal... 

I can't wait till he manages Man Utd, that's all I'm saying.


----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> I rather call it realism. I rather be realistic than dissapointed again. Ofcourse they have a chance, but so do Germany, Argentina, Belgium and Brasil. And I think Rodrgiuez, Neymar and Robben are the best scorers so far.


You can be realistic and supportive. Going into every tournament with the "we'll probably lose" attitude goes beyond realism and into pessimism.

As for today's match... No, it was not easy and we are very lucky to be through although the penalty shootout win turned out to be anything but luck (if that makes sense haha).

Oranje played and controlled the match as I expected them to. The ONLY thing we did not do is score (64-36 possession, 15-3 shots on target), and it was our own fault along with the bad luck of 3 posts/crossbars. Our forwards cut through Costa Rica's defence at will. How we did not score 4-6 goals, I will never know. I do credit Navas for some nice saves, but if an attack of our quality is on its game, there is no way they get blanked the way they did today. The other part of our game that was just not impressive at all was our run timing. Far too many offsides.

To the positive, and you have to draw some positives because you are moving on... Robben, what can you say? He's at his best. It's too bad RVP and others couldn't finish what he set up today. They will need to be more efficient against Argentina, because I don't see us getting 15 shots on target in the Semi Final.

Sneijder, despite two posts, looked determined when he had his opportunities. A game of inches had him with 0 goals instead of 2.

Someone already said it. The balls on Louis van Gaal. The way he just sat down and took a drink of water after making that substitution was nothing short of amazing. Tim Krul's performance in that shootout was something the Dutch are just not used to seeing. He had the competitive arrogance to get into the CRC shooters' heads and backed it up by guessing right every time and stopping 2. I also cannot remember a shootout where we did not miss at least one! There is more pressure on shooters than keepers in this situation. RVP, Robben, Sneijder and Kuijt were sublime from the spot.

Last, but not least (and the most important), the spirit is high with the team. While being stifled for 120 minutes, they kept going and going and going. I can imagine they were feeling frustration, but they did not show it and they kept their heads on straight. The mental strength to win the shootout how they did should make all Oranje supporters happy tonight!


----------



## shallpass

Gavroche said:


> The Neymar injury is a real back-breaker for Brazil. Who's going to step up and put the team on their back against Germany?


 bravo sir!


----------



## shallpass

In a Lonely Place said:


> Dutch keeper needs a slap





gunner21 said:


> ^ Why? He's the hero today.


The sub that came on at the end, he might have saved his team but I can't stand the way he tried to psych them out by getting right in their faces before they stepped up. No sportsmanship in it.


----------



## PGVan

shallpass said:


> The sub that came on at the end, he might have saved his team but I can't stand the way he tried to psych them out by getting right in their faces before they stepped up. No sportsmanship in it.


F*** that! This is the World Cup in the knockout rounds. They're not there to be nice to each other, they're there to win. You can be sportsmen and show respect after the match is over. No friends on the pitch until the final whistle/kick! Krul didn't step over any lines doing what he did. He tried to get into the CRC shooters' heads and it worked!


----------



## shallpass

PGVan said:


> F*** that! This is the World Cup in the knockout rounds. They're not there to be nice to each other, they're there to win. You can be sportsmen and show respect after the match is over. No friends on the pitch until the final whistle/kick! Krul didn't step over any lines doing what he did. He tried to get into the CRC shooters' heads and it worked!


Haha, yeah you are correct I suppose. And I was biased and rooting for Costa Rica. But I don't know, it just seemed weird to me with the comparison of him to navas. I guess I'm just not a fan of that style. I've just realised it pales into insignificance when you think about Suarez haha!


----------



## PGVan

The way I see it, if you're not actually creating an unfair playing field, you're not physically harming your opponent and you're not uttering any discriminatory comments (or anything down those lines), it's fair game in pro sports.


----------



## PGVan

OK, I'm going on a rant here after reading the following quotes on FIFA's website...

_*"Jorge Luis Pinto, Costa Rica coach 
*We're hurt but we're happy. When we came here many people didn't believe in us, but during this World Cup we've done many beautiful things. Even though we have to leave the tournament we haven't been beaten, even by the super-powers we came up against. This evening I thought we matched the Dutch and although we can improve on certain things, we're making great progress. We've shown that we can organise ourselves, that we have good tactics and we can play football. We have left a positive and dignified impression of Costa Rican football. I'm proud of the players and so is the country. They've given everything they have."_

I'm sorry, but when you play for penalties from the opening kickoff, you are not matching your opponent. I understand and respect playing how you need to in order to win (based on your qualities). The Dutch themselves showed what playing defensively to win is all about against Spain and Chile. Granted, Costa Rica had a few counter attacks and they came close in extra time once near the end... but they also didn't create those opportunities from their defensive stance. They were clearly playing to get to penalties. Even their goal in the 1-1 draw with Greece was barely an effort on target. I thought I was watching a slow-motion replay when I was watching the Greek keeper not even try. To say you matched the Dutch when they hit the woodwork 3 times and have only their poor finishing to blame otherwise for not having 4-6 goals on the board, is hilarious at best.

I can even respect playing for penalties if you really think that's the only way you can win a knockout match.... but don't try to tell the world that you matched your opponent when they ran you off the pitch for 120 minutes and just didn't score.


----------



## Royals

Sure they deserved to win because Costa Rica was only playing safe and defending the whole match. Still they held on against Netherlands wich is also to be applauded. Krul really sursprised me though and also the penalties. Didn't except Oranje to be so good with penalities. Truth be told, Netherlands has the best line up with Germany (probably a little more consistent) and Argentina shouldn't be too hard. It will be probably penalties again if Messi can be stopped. But the only worrying thing is that Nederland's play is less convincing with every game. Group fase was really good, Mexico was almost a draw, and now even penalities. So that's a bit worrying. It will be probably penalities from now on considering it's the final stages. I mean creating changes are still only chances. They should be all goals if you know how to score like our forwards can do.



I think it will probably be a Germany-Netherlands final like I said. That would be a dream


----------



## Crimson Lotus

PGVan said:


> OK, I'm going on a rant here after reading the following quotes on FIFA's website...
> 
> _*"Jorge Luis Pinto, Costa Rica coach
> *We're hurt but we're happy. When we came here many people didn't believe in us, but during this World Cup we've done many beautiful things. Even though we have to leave the tournament we haven't been beaten, even by the super-powers we came up against. This evening I thought we matched the Dutch and although we can improve on certain things, we're making great progress. We've shown that we can organise ourselves, that we have good tactics and we can play football. We have left a positive and dignified impression of Costa Rican football. I'm proud of the players and so is the country. They've given everything they have."_
> 
> I'm sorry, but when you play for penalties from the opening kickoff, you are not matching your opponent. I understand and respect playing how you need to in order to win (based on your qualities). The Dutch themselves showed what playing defensively to win is all about against Spain and Chile. Granted, Costa Rica had a few counter attacks and they came close in extra time once near the end... but they also didn't create those opportunities from their defensive stance. They were clearly playing to get to penalties. Even their goal in the 1-1 draw with Greece was barely an effort on target. I thought I was watching a slow-motion replay when I was watching the Greek keeper not even try. To say you matched the Dutch when they hit the woodwork 3 times and have only their poor finishing to blame otherwise for not having 4-6 goals on the board, is hilarious at best.
> 
> I can even respect playing for penalties if you really think that's the only way you can win a knockout match.... but don't try to tell the world that you matched your opponent when they ran you off the pitch for 120 minutes and just didn't score.


You sound really mad for no discernible reason.

Costa Rica was a bottom tier team as far as those qualified to the WC goes, the value of their team was almost 1/10 compared to the Netherlands team:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/268728/value-of-the-national-teams-at-the-2010-world-cup/

CR is the sort of team that you expect to go last on their group with 0 or 1 points and yet they made it to the quarter finals. By any measure the Netherlands was far, far superior and convensional wisdom says they should have won with 3+ goals. Of course CR is going to play all out defense against a team that has a player with a higher monetary value than their whole team combined, it would be incredibly stupid not to.

In paper the Netherlands was so overwhelmingly superior that they should have demolished them anyway, yet they didn't manage to score a single goal in 120 minutes. So I'd say CR managed to pull their weight even when the Netherlands was obviously the better team.


----------



## PGVan

Crimson Lotus said:


> You sound really mad for no discernible reason.
> 
> Costa Rica was a bottom tier team as far as those qualified to the WC goes, the value of their team was almost 1/10 compared to the Netherlands team:
> 
> http://www.statista.com/statistics/268728/value-of-the-national-teams-at-the-2010-world-cup/
> 
> CR is the sort of team that you expect to go last on their group with 0 or 1 points and yet they made it to the quarter finals. By any measure the Netherlands was far, far superior and convensional wisdom says they should have won with 3+ goals. Of course CR is going to play all out defense against a team that has a player with a higher monetary value than their whole team combined, it would be incredibly stupid not to.
> 
> In paper the Netherlands was so overwhelmingly superior that they should have demolished them anyway, yet they didn't manage to score a single goal in 120 minutes. So I'd say CR managed to pull their weight even when the Netherlands was obviously the better team.


I'm not stupid. I know where Costa Rica stands in world football. I also clearly stated that I understand and respect when a team plays how they feel they need to in order to win, even if that means playing for penalties. Pinto lied in his comments that they matched the Dutch with their play. That is what I don't like. Pinto celebrated when the whistle went after 120 minutes. Their objective was to get to penalties, not to match the Dutch, as he wrongfully said they did. They most certainly did not pull their weight, they hung on for dear life and got lucky getting the chance in penalties. The ONLY reason it wasn't a 3-0 win for Holland was the woodwork, which comes down to sheer luck... good luck for CRC and bad luck for NED.

I also don't agree that Oranje's play has been less convincing with every match. Perhaps on the scoreboard, but they were at their most dominant against Costa Rica. I am confident against Argentina as they will not be playing with a back line with 7-8 players in it. We won't have 65% possession, but Oranje will be able to create better quality opportunities if they play with the kind of determination they did yesterday. Of course Argentina has Messi and he's almost always good for some good opportunities himself every match he plays. My position before the tournament was that if Oranje was going to win, they must score 2-3 goals per game. I trust our defensive tactics, but I am also prepared to have Messi cause 1-2 goals against us, making us need 2-3 to make the final.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

I feel that the world cup is declining at great speed. Group stages were great, since then.... Belgium vs USA as the only decent game? And the big teams have been indulging in quite a bit of cheating too, unfortunately.


----------



## chaosherz

Although I am a Germany fan, I want Brazil to win the match tonight. I want to see a Brazil vs Argentina final at the Maracana. That would be epic to say the least.

Random sidenote, why do they always cut short the Brazilian anthem? I read FIFA only allocates 90 seconds for each team's anthem, but what is the point when all the fans continue singing the whole thing anyway? They really should play the full thing, especially if Brazil make the final. The Brazilian anthem is one of the best in the world and watching the thousands of fans, the players and even the player escorts sing it so passionately is amazing.


----------



## gunner21

Donnie in the Dark said:


> I feel that the world cup is declining at great speed. Group stages were great, since then.... Belgium vs USA as the only decent game? And the big teams have been indulging in quite a bit of cheating too, unfortunately.


Fewer goals have been scored and I feel like there's a reason. 1) Teams with weak defense have been kicked out, 2) Knockout stage means one mistake can cost you the game, so teams are less risky and more conservative going forward.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Crimson Lotus

Germany > Brazil.

Netherlands > Argentina.

Germany > Netherlands.

Deutschland über alles.


----------



## sad vlad

Don't let me down Germany! Not you too! Would be too many in a row...


----------



## RoseWhiteRoseRed

cheering for Brazil or should I cheer for Germany....


----------



## Elad

in for a motm performance from Oscar.


----------



## Crimson Lotus

Fack you Brazil > ).


----------



## Elad

Lmao Brazil.. come on now. This is ridiculous.


----------



## gunner21

Wow! This is a massacre.


----------



## minimized

Holy crap...?

Congrats to Klose, passing Ronaldo. Doing it against Brazil.


----------



## googleamiable

what the ****. 

really? 

5-0 at 28 min?

can germany 10-0 this?

losing neymar really shattered their confidence eh


----------



## Elad

Oh man, there is going to be some fan violence after this game. Brazil look like garbage defending and going forward.


----------



## gunner21

michael1 said:


> what the ****.
> 
> really?
> 
> 5-0 at 28 min?
> 
> can germany 10-0 this?
> 
> losing neymar really shattered their confidence eh


Thiago Silva is wayyyyyyyyyy more important to their team than neymar.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

This reminds me of a few Arsenal decimations but the scale is far beyond that because it's the World Cup...I wonder what the scale of the riots will be


----------



## googleamiable

Well, really the 2 players that make their team work.

Rio ferdinand commented before the game that luiz just doesnt communicate, and this would be a huge test for him. I mean i thought that without silva and neymar germany would win, but not this brutally.


----------



## Dark Light

Seeing this massacre I don't think Argentina will have any chances with Holland. Europeans are just too good.


----------



## ihans

I always supported Germany, but this is just sad to watch :no

But twitter knows the reason  -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/486609798767468544


----------



## sad vlad

That's more like it. 

If Messi will have a bad day tomorrow, Argentina will not look good at all tomorrow.


----------



## apx24

Wow what has happened to Brazil, that was a woeful performance by them. I'm hoping for a Germany vs Netherlands final!


----------



## apx24

ihans said:


> I always supported Germany, but this is just sad to watch :no
> 
> But twitter knows the reason  -
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/486609798767468544


Dude, if you support Germany you should be over the ****ing moon right now! 

I definitely wish I was German right now!


----------



## Umpalumpa

What the....


----------



## Folded Edge

W T F!?!?!!!!!!!!!  

Brazil Destroyed :yes :b

I can foresee more Germany goals before then end


----------



## gunner21

LOL @ Fred.


----------



## starsfreak

I still can not believe what happened in the first half


----------



## starsfreak

:clap


----------



## Crimson Lotus

It looks like Brazil didn't bribe the referee with enough money this time.


----------



## markwalters2

Good lord, what is happening here?


----------



## entangled

I am losing it THIS IS AWESOME.


----------



## Magnus

Meanwhile, in Brazil:


----------



## starsfreak

DEUTSCHLAAAAAAND :clap


----------



## Swanhild

I'm not even rooting for Brazil but I feel bad for them tbh... this is just humiliating.


----------



## bluegc8

Why was everyone booing Fred?


----------



## gunner21

bluegc8 said:


> Why was everyone booing Fred?


Because he ****ing sucks.


----------



## mark555666

Never been impressed by Brazil
Germany and holland best they will meet

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## markwalters2

Still enough time for a comeback..


----------



## markwalters2

See?


----------



## Elad

Awesome job by Germany either way.

Even better job by Chelsea selling David Shytiz for 50mil.


----------



## Crimson Lotus

It's so amusing to see people crying over a sport match.


----------



## Elad




----------



## RoseWhiteRoseRed




----------



## Nefury

Pretty good at football these Germans, like.


----------



## Crimson Lotus

moloko said:


> Are you a sadist? ****ty comment.


It's a sport, it's ok to have fun and laugh if your team wins but to cry as if some horrible tragedy had occurred when they lose?

They should be crying about how much money their country wasted on this tournament.


----------



## shwoop

Argentina will win the World Cup on Brazilian soil.


----------



## Winds

Just when you think you seen it all, games like today happen.


----------



## masterridley

This is what happened when a sh-tty defence meets a highly organized attacking team. To be fair to the Brazilians, Thiago Silva was a huge loss. Plus, everything the Germans did turned out well for them... that Schurle goal, come on.

I'm now wishing for a NED-GER final. I hear these two don't really like each other. Should be fun.


----------



## masterridley

Plus new flag for Brazil


----------



## Royals

Wow who would have thought? The Brazilians demolished. But was to be expected. Brazil wasnt top the whole tournament, plus a ****ty line-up. Without Neymar is like Uruqgay without Count Duraez. A Germany-Netherlands final would be best. Two best attacking teams of the tournament against each other. That probably would be a penalty shoot out. But the way Germany is playing I think they should win the title. They would deserve it.


----------



## riderless

Did Germany win?


----------



## shwoop

Schuerrle is such an underrated player. His pace and directness makes him an excellent super sub against tired defences.


----------



## shwoop

Though I must say, I didn't think the absence of Thiago Silva would have that much of an impact on Brazil's defence. Dante was a more than adequate replacement, especially given that he's extremely familiar with most of the German players. David Luiz was irresponsible as captain, constantly neglecting his defensive duties and leaving Dante stranded for most of the goals. Without a leader like Thiago Silva or Terry beside him, David Luiz is a very average player.


----------



## riderless

Columbia should've made it though instead of Brazil


----------



## FunkyFedoras

I feel so bad for Brazil. That was a killing.


----------



## cafune

I wanted Germany to win, but not exactly like this /killjoy.


----------



## PGVan

gunner21 said:


> Thiago Silva is wayyyyyyyyyy more important to their team than neymar.


While I agree 100%, I don't think he would have made a lick of difference. Brasil's defence was horrid from the opening kickoff (June 12, not July 8 )and their attack relied on one guy. They squeaked by Croatia after giving them an own goal, they couldn't score on Mexico and Cameroun probably fixed their own result in the group finale. They clawed by Chile on penalties and couldn't finish off Colombia easily when going up 2-0. I won't sit here and say I could see 7 goals coming against them (nobody did), but I'm not surprised that Brasil got hammered today. The moment I felt that Germany would make this not even close was when Brasil brought Neymar's jersey out for the anthems. (Not to sound inconsiderate, but he's injured, not dead.) For the 3 days between the QF and SF, all Brasil could talk and think about was Neymar, Neymar and Neymar. From the players to Scolari, they were all OBSESSED with Neymar's injury. They spent little to no time preparing for the match itself, they just kept going on and on about how sorry they felt for Neymar, and as we saw today, themselves. They also appealed Thiago Silva's yellow card against Colombia. FIFA never overturns yellow cards. That appeal was a sign of desperation. Brasil's minds were never on playing the SF against Germany, they figured playing for Neymar would win the match for them. Even though they have a 3rd place match this weekend, I'm surprised Scolari hasn't been fired yet.

Good for Germany for taking the opportunities Brasil handed them. Their focus must now be to not get overconfident. Yes, they scored 7 goals, but it was about as effortless as 7 goals can get. Brasil's defenders looked about a U16 level today, and I'm being generous. (Don't get me wrong, Germany came out to do a job and they got it done.) Be it Argentina or Holland, they won't be playing a defence that horrible. I remember Euro 2000 when Holland beat Yugoslavia 6-1 in the QF. The media and fans pretty much handed Holland the trophy then and there. Those of us who watched remember the SF against Italy. Horrible memories!

On to tomorrow... news out of Oranje's camp has been interesting. Robin van Persie is having stomach issues and might not play. Meanwhile Nigel de Jong is training with the squad and might actually play against Argentina, which would be a huge boost in the effort to defend against a Messi-led attack. (Did Louis van Gaal tell us all de Jong was finished knowing he would be ready for this match?) Regardless of who starts and comes on as subs, the time for talking is over. For Messi/ARG and Robben/NED, in the words of my boss, don't tell me, show me.


----------



## Dark Light




----------



## Folded Edge

May as well make a prediction at this point. (About 11 hours before the game tonight)

Argentina will join Germany in the final -

Germany will the be the new World Cup holders. 



Looking forward to the Netherlands and Argentina game tonight :boogie


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

Hahahahahahahahaa!!!


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

I was annoyed when Nuer lost his clean sheet at the end though.


----------



## Royals

So far my predictions of who will win have been right. I still think Netherlands has a better team, and more top players than Argentina. But Argentina is playing like a team
and tough to beat (on defensive), so it's hard to say who will win. I also still think
Germany always has been better team than Netherlands, it shows in the results and cups won. This team has also more better players than Oranje. 8 Bayern players, and all-star line-up.


----------



## Elad

I'm going to pick argentina to beat netherlands if RVP is out and if, and this is a massive if, the argentinian attackers finally start clicking. They have far too many talented goalscorers in higuain, aguero, messi, lazezzi, palacio to be struggling like they are. All it will take is one game for them smash a team and get going, sort of like how the french looked very average coming into the WC then ripped apart a couple of teams. 

Will that game be today? its going to need to be for argentinas sake.


----------



## sad vlad

Go Netherlands! I hope the Clockwork Orange will function as smoothly as possible tonight. I've got the beer in hand. opcorn :drunk


----------



## googleamiable

what makes arg vs holland difficult to predict is that both have match winners, so for me it's a toss up. should be a good game


----------



## Folded Edge

Here's hoping it's another great match tonight :clap

First beer on the go as well - cheers everybody :drunk


----------



## starsfreak

Heard van Persie and de Jong are playing again. Think they should manage to go through


----------



## PGVan

Fairly predictable first half. Neither team looks like taking any risks yet. About as well played on Messi as we can expect. Gave them one close FK and Cillessen did the job. It'll either be a cracking second half, or more of the no-risk play with extra time a real possibility either way.

HUP HOLLAND!!!!


----------



## Fooza

Fooza said:


> My predictions for QF's:
> 
> Brazil vs Columbia: Brazil
> France vs Germany: Germany
> Netherlands vs Costa Rica: Netherlands
> Argentina vs Belgium: Argentina
> 
> SF's:
> 
> Brazil vs Germany: Germany
> Netherlands vs Argentina: Argentina
> 
> Final:
> 
> Germany vs Argentina: Germany
> 
> Argentina will need to step up a few more gears if they are to reach the final, which I think they may find. Otherwise I still back the Germans to win the final. At the start of the tournament I had them or Spain (lol) favourites to win.


I need a Germany win in the final for a full house. They better not let me down.


----------



## bluegc8

Yes!! my brother and I were rooting for Argentina. What a great match, I was at the edge of my seat the whole time.


----------



## PGVan

I love and respect Louis van Gaal for his genius at this tournament, but I would like to know why the f*** Ron Vlaar took the first penalty. That ended everything right there. 

Gutted without a doubt, but at some point sooner than usual after a tournament exit, we should all be proud of what Oranje accomplished at this WC. Nobody in the world thought we would win any game unless we got lucky against Australia and we went out on penalties in the SF. Everyone thought it would be our inexperienced defending that would do us in. I'm pissed off that it was the goals that dried up, but the football world can no longer criticize the Dutch defence, even though they will continue to do so.

In the end, a positive World Cup for Oranje. The hunger for glory is still there however. We have a solid foundation in place to build for Euro 2016 and WC 2018.


----------



## Royals

Like I said, a preditable ending for Netherlands. Always falling short. Luckily I expected this somehow so I'm less dissapointed. But man, they need some more mental strength or a physchologist or something to learn how to become more die hard. Teams like Argentina have such a team spirit, they not only fight to win, they fight for their country. It's live or die over there. So I think the only problem is their mental state and pressure. They need a little extra power or will to win. But at least losing now is better than in the final again! I expect Germany to win tough. Like I said Netherlands always has it hard against top teams. They have one of the best teams so why do they not win? Lack of mental punch? And why not Krul in goal again?


----------



## UndreamingAwake

PGVan said:


> I love and respect Louis van Gaal for his genius at this tournament, but I would like to know why the f*** Ron Vlaar took the first penalty. That ended everything right there.


I was thinking the exact same thing as soon as I saw he was the one taking the first shot. I mean, he had a great match, but seriously?


----------



## Folded Edge

Folded Edge said:


> May as well make a prediction at this point. (About 11 hours before the game tonight)
> 
> Argentina will join Germany in the final -
> 
> Germany will the be the new World Cup holders.
> 
> Looking forward to the Netherlands and Argentina game tonight :boogie


Prediction still bang on, I should have put some cash on it. :lol Sadly I did not.

Regardless....... what an amazing world cup, one of the best :boogie

Bring on the final!!!!! :clap:boogie:clap


----------



## PGVan

8-10 years ago, I would agree with you about mental strength. Not now. It started in 2010 with Bert van Marwijk hammering in the mentality of playing for the result rather than only worrying about looking good. They did the same here, just under different tactics. For some reason today, LVG did not switch to 4-3-3 at some point. Argentina did not much better. It was a purely defensive battle today. Robben had it on his boot, but Mascherano made a great block.

As much as I hate to say it, I see Germany winning as well. Holland showed today that Messi can be contained for 120 minutes, and Germany has a more experienced team than we did. It won't be no 7-1, but I would not be surprised if it was decided well before the 90th minute.

The only other question I have is for FIFA. Why a 3rd place game? Really.


----------



## starsfreak

PGVan said:


> The only other question I have is for FIFA. Why a 3rd place game? Really.


$$$$$$$$$


----------



## PGVan

Metalunatic said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing as soon as I saw he was the one taking the first shot. I mean, he had a great match, but seriously?


That was my thinking too. I hope it wasn't a reward for what was the best match of his life. Between him and Nigel de Jong, Messi was rendered to being average aside from the one free kick that Cillessen saved.

How Oranje defended throughout the entire tournament is a huge positive. While the goals dried up, until the penalty shootout, we still had a chance to be World Champions because of our defending. Goals do win games, but defence wins championships. It's a cliché for a reason. I think there is a very good outlook for the current squad. Hiddink taking over from van Gaal is also a good thing.


----------



## FunkyFedoras

Argentinaaaaaa


----------



## googleamiable

PGVan said:


> That was my thinking too. I hope it wasn't a reward for what was the best match of his life. Between him and Nigel de Jong, Messi was rendered to being average aside from the one free kick that Cillessen saved.
> 
> How Oranje defended throughout the entire tournament is a huge positive. While the goals dried up, until the penalty shootout, we still had a chance to be World Champions because of our defending. Goals do win games, but defence wins championships. It's a cliché for a reason. I think there is a very good outlook for the current squad. Hiddink taking over from van Gaal is also a good thing.


really, you're getting hiddink next? i rate him as the best manager in the world.

what you'll miss in the next couple years is robben, there are usually just 4-5 legit world class players at a time, and he's one of them currently.


----------



## PGVan

michael1 said:


> really, you're getting hiddink next? i rate him as the best manager in the world.
> 
> what you'll miss in the next couple years is robben, there are usually just 4-5 legit world class players at a time, and he's one of them currently.


Hiddink for Euro 2016 and then Danny Blind for WC 2018.

Impossible to speculate just how world class Robben will be in 2-4 years. Already using some hindsight to this WC, I think we missed Kevin Strootman a lot. Losing him was why Louis van Gaal went to 5-3-2 to begin with.


----------



## minimized

Yeah the third-place game is technically pointless and made for a spectacle rather than anything besides record books, but hell... it ought to be fun. Nothing to lose.

I'll be cheering for Germany, but I suppose the stage is well-set for Messi. All the crap he always got for his World Cup performance and his legacy, not having won one (bullcrap)...


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I think the Germans may go all the way this time, glad to see that...although a WC for Messi would be ok too as I don't think he'll be as good as that crazy run with Barca in their prime ever again


----------



## Jammer25

Germany will win, neither Argentina nor the Netherlands impressed much in my opinion.


----------



## Royals

PGVan said:


> 8-10 years ago, I would agree with you about mental strength. Not now. It started in 2010 with Bert van Marwijk hammering in the mentality of playing for the result rather than only worrying about looking good. They did the same here, just under different tactics. For some reason today, LVG did not switch to 4-3-3 at some point. Argentina did not much better. It was a purely defensive battle today. Robben had it on his boot, but Mascherano made a great block.
> 
> As much as I hate to say it, I see Germany winning as well. Holland showed today that Messi can be contained for 120 minutes, and Germany has a more experienced team than we did. It won't be no 7-1, but I would not be surprised if it was decided well before the 90th minute.
> 
> The only other question I have is for FIFA. Why a 3rd place game? Really.


It's also sad to know that this team won't stay together for the next world cup? I mean 4 years is probably too long. Will Robben, Van Persie, Kuyt or Snijder still participate? And Robben was in the shappe of his life. Will he still be then? Or will there be a chance for a completely new fresh team? If this team can make it to the next Euro cup they will probably win it since Spain has lost it's touch and maybe only Germany, Italy or France would be in our way. It's just sad to see Oranje is missing something. That even with the best attackers they are still not able to score when it's really needed. It was the same back then with Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy, de Boer, Kluivert, Overmars, Koeman, Gullit, Van Basten...never able to go further than a semi final or win the final. What is this little extra Germany does have? And also why did Brasil have such a bad team of players? Why not Kaka, Coutinho, Robinho or Ronaldinho? That was probably hig biggest mistake.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

I'm glad that Robben won't be able to dive for a penalty in the final :yes


----------



## boas

Donnie in the Dark said:


> I'm glad that Robben won't be able to dive for a penalty in the final :yes


I don't really take any issue with outright diving anyway, but even if I did, I wouldn't blame Robben for jumping to avoid a nasty ankle clash against Mexico. Think how many injuries he's sustained over the years courtesy of clumsy, knuckle dragging defenders.


----------



## Donnie in the Dark

boas said:


> I don't really take any issue with outright diving anyway, but even if I did, I wouldn't blame Robben for jumping to avoid a nasty ankle clash against Mexico. Think how many injuries he's sustained over the years courtesy of clumsy, knuckle dragging defenders.


 I'm more thinking of the last minute penalty against mexico, when someone put there foot out, and Robben, without any momentum, stepped over it, kicked his own leg out, and fell in a heap.


----------



## boas

Donnie in the Dark said:


> I'm more thinking of the last minute penalty against mexico, when someone put there foot out, and Robben, without any momentum, stepped over it, kicked his own leg out, and fell in a heap.


That's the one I'm talking about as well. I interpreted it as Robben trying to avoid taking a kick on the ankle. No contact, but still a penalty.


----------



## MrBlack

There's a certain irony in revealing you went easy on them not to humiliate them further. Basically saying "Brazil were so ****, we had to stop attacking" :lol


----------



## Fruitcake

I don't think he said that they went easy on Brazil; it's the opposite. He meant that they would not disrespect Brazil by doing tricks or showy play or by not taking the rest of the game seriously. It wouldn't make sense for them to go easy on Brazil so as to not shame them and then say so afterwards...
There are some disagreements about the translations of what he said and some reporters are taking it out of context and adding to what he said to make Brazil look worse and to make the reports dramatic.


----------



## Fruitcake

If anyone wants their nails painted in German colours they can come round to mine tomorrow. I can also do a miniature portrait of Özil on your thumbnail so you can still look at him when he isn't on screen.


----------



## googleamiable




----------



## PGVan

Royals said:


> It's also sad to know that this team won't stay together for the next world cup? I mean 4 years is probably too long. Will Robben, Van Persie, Kuyt or Snijder still participate? And Robben was in the shappe of his life. Will he still be then? Or will there be a chance for a completely new fresh team? If this team can make it to the next Euro cup they will probably win it since Spain has lost it's touch and maybe only Germany, Italy or France would be in our way. It's just sad to see Oranje is missing something. That even with the best attackers they are still not able to score when it's really needed. It was the same back then with Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy, de Boer, Kluivert, Overmars, Koeman, Gullit, Van Basten...never able to go further than a semi final or win the final. What is this little extra Germany does have? And also why did Brasil have such a bad team of players? Why not Kaka, Coutinho, Robinho or Ronaldinho? That was probably hig biggest mistake.


I think Kuyt *might* have the Euro left, but age is catching up with him. I would love to see him involved as a coach with the national team. He is sport's perfect example of playing for the crest on the front of your shirt and never the name on the back.

I don't see any reason why Robben and van Persie shouldn't have another World Cup in them. Sneijder is a question mark past Euro 2016 in my opinion, but if he is in Russia, I think he will be a sub as long as the rest of our younger midfield develops properly and remains healthy. We also have to see the bright young players we have coming through the system and even a guy like Ron Vlaar opened a lot of eyes this month. We just need our almost all-Eredivisie defenders to move to bigger clubs/leagues and it will happen. They were supposed to be why we were supposed to get hammered on in the group stage, yet they were the backbone carrying us to the Semi Final with proper tactics in place. For once, defending was Holland's strength and that makes me happy.

I don't see any issue whatsoever qualifying for Euro 2016. There are 24 teams now, not 16. Finishing 3rd place in the qualifying group now gets you a playoff spot, or direct qualification if you're the best 3rd place team. Czech Republic and Turkey are Holland's best competition in qualifying. I see Holland and Germany dominating European football for a while with France as a possible solid team as well. I think Italy is on a steady decline. They can still get the job done to make the major tournaments, and they did make the Euro 2012 Final, but it seems that their current star player to build around (Balotelli) simply doesn't care.

Germany has a winning history to draw lessons from. Holland is still trying to create theirs. I don't think we're far off. Our mental strength was as strong as ever at this tournament. 2010 was good as well, so we are on a good path of playing how we need to in order to win rather than playing only to look flashy. What I would like to see is longer coaching tenures. Marco van Basten had two tournaments in recent years, but lets be honest, he is not a good coach. That said, having a plan set in place with Hiddink taking over after this weekend followed with Danny Blind in 2 years, the same people in general will be around and the culture is not likely to change.

As for Brasil... It's like they really thought there was going to be some divine intervention that handed them this tournament, especially after losing Neymar. They spent more time crying (whether they won or lost) than being professional athletes preparing to play in a World Cup as hosts. They were in the wrong frame of mind from the second FIFA awarded this WC to Brasil.



Donnie in the Dark said:


> I'm more thinking of the last minute penalty against mexico, when someone put there foot out, and Robben, without any momentum, stepped over it, kicked his own leg out, and fell in a heap.


You mean when Marquez stepped on his foot as he was running by to get the ball and also clipped his knee? Sure Robben embellished it, but he also did that because he didn't get the call when Marquez and Moreno almost chopped him in half 45 minutes earlier. If you recall, Moreno came in so hard, he broke his own leg. The foul in stoppage time was still a foul, embellishment or not. In what competition are defenders allowed to step on an attacking player's foot?

Contact or not, it was still a penalty because Marquez was not going for the ball, but here is the contact anyway...

http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53b05501ecad04356d8877e7/image.jpg


----------



## Foh_Teej

PGVan said:


> Contact or not, it was still a penalty because Marquez was not going for the ball, but here is the contact anyway...
> 
> http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53b05501ecad04356d8877e7/image.jpg


If this is your idea of contact, _every_ entry into the 18 should virtually guarantee a PK.


----------



## PGVan

1. He stepped on his foot. That's the bottom line. There is no allowable form of stepping on an attacking player's foot. 

2. No contact is actually necessary to give that penalty. Robben cut and got by Marquez with the ball. Marquez then stuck his leg out, not going after the ball. That's a foul. 

I can't believe people are STILL on this. Anyone who actually thinks that was not a penalty does not understand the rules. People see the embellishment and somehow think it means the foul didn't happen. It doesn't work that way. 

Robben is no worse than numerous players on every team. No fan of this sport should ever criticize players on other teams for diving/embellishment. All of our favourite teams have players who do it!


----------



## monotonous

not to sound like a smart ***, but i said germany will win the title a month ago


----------



## markwalters2

monotonous said:


> not to sound like a smart ***, but i said germany will win the title a month ago


Still sounds like a smart ***


----------



## JayDontCareEh

.


----------



## alenclaud

Hoping Argentina gets the cup, although the German team seems to be the more likely to win.


----------



## UndreamingAwake

alenclaud said:


> Hoping Argentina gets the cup


No way, I'm rooting for Germany all the way lol. And yes that's because our team got eliminated by Argentina.


----------



## PGVan

I'm shocked that anyone in The Netherlands would want Germany to win. Do rivalries mean nothing? It's like an Ajax fan cheering for Feyenoord. Just should not happen lol.


----------



## UndreamingAwake

PGVan said:


> I'm shocked that anyone in The Netherlands would want Germany to win. Do rivalries mean nothing? It's like an Ajax fan cheering for Feyenoord. Just should not happen lol.


From most polls i've seen, most Dutch people (that voted on said polls) seem to be cheering for Germany now. Let's call it neighbourly love or something. And a bit of vengeance for getting our butts kicked by Argentinia. That's fresher in the collective mind than the 1974 finals against Germany.


----------



## monotonous

brazil's gonna win 3rd place, 3-1


----------



## Eazi

Argentina to win it, written in the stars for Lionel Messi.


----------



## monotonous

classclown said:


> Argentina to win it, written in the stars for Lionel Messi.


lol forgot how we smashed you in the last world cup, what did your star do last time, oh nothing, because thats all hes capable of


----------



## Eazi

monotonous said:


> lol forgot how we smashed you in the last world cup, what did your star do last time, oh nothing, because thats all hes capable of


Woah chill I don't care that much about the world cup. I'm just a fan of Messi and it seems his destiny to win it and become an all time great. I support no country.


----------



## UndreamingAwake

monotonous said:


> brazil's gonna win 3rd place, 3-1


Well, you were right about the 3 goals, they just weren't for Brazil.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I love Dirk Kuyt, wish he was still in England week in & week out until he retires, such a trooper!

As for Brazil, what a collapse...I know the penalty was harsh but as a team they've been average at best & a shambles these past 2 games


----------



## Folded Edge

Genuinely relieved tonight's game didn't turn out to be too much of an embarrassment for Brazil, it certainly looked like it could have been early on. That 2nd Dutch goal was brilliant - the touches and control - amazing :clap, the 3rd goal was great too. 

Roll on tomorrow - it's great that it's an intercontinental final as far as I'm concerned. I still reckon Germany are gonna win. :yes


----------



## lad

Hilarious brazil have done so bad the arrogant ****s.


----------



## PGVan

Metalunatic said:


> From most polls i've seen, most Dutch people (that voted on said polls) seem to be cheering for Germany now. Let's call it neighbourly love or something. And a bit of vengeance for getting our butts kicked by Argentinia. That's fresher in the collective mind than the 1974 finals against Germany.


We didn't get our asses kicked against Argentina though. lol It was a fair 0-0 draw (neither team attacked) and winning/losing on penalties always involves some luck.

I'm simply of the sports mindset where you have your natural rivals, and you never ever cheer for them in any situation. Another of my personal examples would be as a Vancouver Canucks fan in the NHL, there is absolutely no way I could cheer for Edmonton or Calgary (our two natural rivals) and hope to keep my integrity as a fan of Vancouver. 



Canadian Brotha said:


> I love Dirk Kuyt, wish he was still in England week in & week out until he retires, such a trooper!
> 
> As for Brazil, what a collapse...I know the penalty was harsh but as a team they've been average at best & a shambles these past 2 games


Amen on Kuijt. He is the perfect warrior for any team!

Brasil was average, in my opinion, in every match they played. They did score 4 on Cameroun, but considering it was Cameroun, how do we know they didn't fix their own loss? I thought Brasil was very lucky to make the QF, nevermind the SF.

You are right, the penalty was harsh. The foul was outside the box. However, there is no reason in the laws of the game for Thiago Silva not to have been sent off. He was the last man back and it was not even close to debateable. The only reason the referee let him stay is because it was a third place game (doesn't make the incorrect card correct) and the only reason Holland did not react any worse than Robben did to the yellow card is becasuse it was a third place game. I generally see third place games as pointless. All the win gets the team are points in the rankings and a happier flight home. The only commentary I care to make about this match, is that I thought van Gaal would have done better to start Memphis Depay as he is a finalist for the young player award. He could still get it, but I have a feeling Pogba will win because he is simply more popular.

All in all, I am still disappointed we did not make the final. Although we have a capable team, we didn't deserve it for not scoring against Argentina either. Even our "old guys" (Robben, Sneijder and van Persie) are only 30. Players such as Pirlo and Klose have shown us that you can be effective starting players in your mid 30s. The only regular player we have who will be too old for 2018 is Kuijt. Sneijder could be on the decline as well, but I definitely see Robben and van Persie having both the Euro and next WC in them. Our defenders were a major bright point, as much as the media will never say so. Even Vlaar had no WC experience prior to this year. I cannot wait to see how our defenders develop over the next 2-4 years as the bulk of them have bigger European clubs looking into their services. The other point of excitement that all Oranje fans should have, is that we made this semi-final without Kevin Strootman. I will turn religious if he can remain healthy for future tournaments as he could lead us to a trophy or two.

Oranje did quite well for a team the whole world figured would lose 2-3 games in the group stage.


----------



## Micronian

alenclaud said:


> Hoping Argentina gets the cup, although the German team seems to be the more likely to win.


Everyone is already convinced Germany will win, but there are a couple of factors nobody seems to consider:

*#1 Argentina is the "home team" in this final*
*#2 Germany has not faced a South American team in this tournament* (sure, you could say Brazil was one, but as everyone saw, they imploded as soon as Neymar was carted off in the QF)

Argentina has already faced teams that mark them like crazy, but Germany also has struggled to score against teams that defended well (France, Algeria), and really, has not played any better than Argentina in those conditions. Germany is certainly more organized and disciplined than Argentina, but I don't think that is going to prove the difference. If anything, it will be conditioning in the 2nd half.

If I were the coach of either team (especially Argentina), I would go for as much free-form attack since there is nothing to lose in the Final.


----------



## PGVan

What I noticed with Germany, is they have trouble preventing scoring opportunities against when the opponent attacks with pace. As we saw in their match against Ghana, the Germans are usually good for their 1-2 (or more) goals every match, but if you have speed, you can get a couple for yourself. Had Ghana not had a bunch of selfish attacking players looking for personal glory, they probably win that match.

It was much the same against the US. When the Americans were running, they had Germany on their heels. Argentina will need to play forward with pace and not miss their opportunities if they are going to win tomorrow.


----------



## MariLushi

Germany scored in the 15 minute mark against France. Argentina has played with easy teams tbh , and ugh the ego surrounding Argentinians and Messi will grow. 
I want Germany to win, my country crashed after being champions and my next team to root for is Germany. 
And what does Argentina being " the home team" has anything to do with it, Brazilians dislike Argentinians they dont want to see them win the cup. Its just like Germany/The Netherlands rivalry, but much stronger.

Im still sad that LA Roja blew it, and Xavi retired, our football will not be the same.


----------



## MariLushi

monotonous said:


> lol forgot how we smashed you in the last world cup, what did your star do last time, oh nothing, because thats all hes capable of


I dont dislike Messi, I dislike his fans. Argentina is not Messi only, I hate all of this "I want Messi to win the cup" crap that is going around, Argentina's true hero this cup has been Mascherano.


----------



## Elad

Think Germany will win, and I would prefer to see win. Simply because Argentina have scraped by in all their games, played poorly considering the forward options available.

At this point I'm more interested in possible transfers and start of the new season.. world cup last few games have been pretty boring so will be glad to see it done.


----------



## lad

MariLushi said:


> I dont dislike Messi, I dislike his fans. Argentina is not Messi only, I hate all of this "I want Messi to win the cup" crap that is going around, Argentina's true hero this cup has been Mascherano.


 Mascherano has been ****hot to be fair. I don't bother reading the media opinions that much anymore, its so bland and just full of agendas.

In regards to the final, the germans are going to win unless mascherano has a mental game. Muller to score please, outstanding player.


----------



## markwalters2

Argentina 3 - 1 Germany


----------



## Micronian

MariLushi said:


> And what does Argentina being " the home team" has anything to do with it, Brazilians dislike Argentinians they dont want to see them win the cup.


Home advantage is always important. I don't know where you get this idea that it isn't. There are over 100,000 Argentinians out in Rio and the team knows it. From what I understand, the team has been in contact all week with their fanbase in one way or another.

Also, I seriously doubt the real Brazilians are going to be at the Maracaná. 1) because there's no way they could have afforded those tickets anyway 2) Whatver Brazilian actually bought those tickets would have been smart to sell them already (and the largest # of consumers there are Argentinians)
3) There will likely be more celebrities and dignitaries in attendance than actual fans

I'm not saying the game is a "lock", but whatever advantage Germany has garnered over the course of the tournament will be evened out more than what people expect (i.e. those people who have never LIVED a tournament final in South America)


----------



## Zack

I'm disillusioned.

What is the point of having panels of so-called experts (or commentators or pundits) on television giving their so-called knowledge to us ignorant plebs, who only played the game in the playground at school, when _every time_ they predict things in soccer they get it _embarrassingly wrong_. They claim to know everything _in retrospect_ - after a game - but before a game their opinions are no better than arm-chair fans' opinions or pure chance.

Consider these examples:

1 - When David Moyes took over Manchester United last season the experts predicted the team's supremacy would continue unabated...

2 - Before this World Cup the _majority_ of experts predicted that Brazil would win by a country mile, as they say... Instead they were humiliated 7-1 in the semis and easily beaten in the third place game. _Only then_ did the experts pick apart exactly what was wrong with the team, which was now suddenly very clear to see and by implication completely predictable!

3 - Before this World Cup no expert predicted Germany would win. Not one. Germany was hardly even mentioned, never mind given a chance! Likewise the Dutch. Both teams were lumped into the also-rans category.

4 - Great things were expected of Spain. European champions, World champions - what could possibly go wrong? Well, they were brushed aside easily and eliminated at the group stages. Now, suddenly, everything is obvious! Ha! They are too old - that's the reason. (Don't let the _ugly fact_ that their team is of average age slay a lovely sound-bite...)

How can these ex-pros, who have so much experience and knowledge about the game, be just as good (or bad) at making predications as the ordinary supporter? Instead of having Hansen, Shearer, Wright, Dixon, Lawrenson, O'Neill, _et al_, the BBC and ITV should just randomly select a panel of viewers to discuss the game.


----------



## Zack

In a Lonely Place said:


> *Having great knowledge of the game doesn't turn you into a psychic.*
> It's a cup completion where surprises can happen, not sure who didn't mention Germany.
> They are always one of the major contenders and a lot of people fancied the Dutch.


Yes, obviously. But what use is knowledge if it is only applicable _after_ an event? Also, most of the World Cup games were played in groups aka mini-leagues.

Being "always one of the major contenders" is mostly used as a platitude by the expert panel. Certainly some teams have a good record, but this is mainly stating the obvious.


----------



## Zack

In a Lonely Place said:


> Their knowledge encompasses way more than predictions, did you lose money or something?
> 
> A mini league consisting of three games, get off to a bad start and you won't get out of the group.


I actually have a pathological gambling diagnosis but I haven't gambled in perhaps two months. Drinking less, too - much less.


----------



## Folded Edge

Not long to go, here's hoping it's a great game  opcorn

It's nearly beer time :drunk


----------



## starsfreak

God damn I'm so nervous... 

Doesn't look too good so far. Argentina dominating :/


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I hope Muller scores & takes the Golden Boot


----------



## Zack

Muller Fruit Corner...


----------



## Zack

Messi has been crap tonight - manager should sub him.


----------



## PGVan

Zack said:


> Messi has been crap tonight - manager should sub him.


LOL. Subbing Messi in the WC Final would get any manager in the world fired. He hasn't been bad, Germany has defended him well... just like Switzerland, Belgium and Holland did.

The guy for Argentina who should have eyebrows raised at him just came off. Higuain had it on a silver platter in the first half and f***ed up.


----------



## Zack

Come on, Germany! You might lose every war you ever fought, but you can make amends on the football field, surely you can?


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Everyone seems to be just off kilter when they get decent shooting opportunities today


----------



## gunner21

Javier Mascherano has been the best player in the tournament.


----------



## starsfreak

Words can not describe how nervous I am..

Please not again. It's about time now :/


----------



## Canadian Brotha

There it is!


----------



## Milco

What an absolutely horrible referee they got for this game.
How could they ever think he was the right man for the job?


----------



## gunner21

What a goal!


----------



## Canadian Brotha

The take, the angle, keeper up big in his face, brilliant!


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## starsfreak

YEEEEEEEEEES GET IN THEEEEEEERE



moloko said:


> That ****ing Merkel, I can't stand her. Congratulations to Germany.


Not over yet


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## PGVan

Milco said:


> What an absolutely horrible referee they got for this game.
> How could they ever think he was the right man for the job?


LOL! Already trying to find a scapegoat. Referees do not cost anyone games. That, and he hasn't been bad at all. Every call or non/call is called out by someone. Sad reality in sports.


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## Canadian Brotha

I was hoping it would be Muller who won it for them though so I could say "Messi got Muller'd!" Haha


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## minimized

Congoetzelations my German brothers.


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## UndreamingAwake

Grats to Germany!


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## starsfreak

Weltmeister!!!


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## gunner21

Messi is nothing without Xavi and Iniesta.


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## TicklemeRingo

Glückwunsch Deutschland! :yay


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## Milco

PGVan said:


> LOL! Already trying to find a scapegoat. Referees do not cost anyone games. That, and he hasn't been bad at all. Every call or non/call is called out by someone. Sad reality in sports.


A scapegoat? I was with Germany!
But some of the challenges should have given cards and didn't, and he got calls completely wrong.


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## PGVan

Milco said:


> A scapegoat? I was with Germany!
> But some of the challenges should have given cards and didn't, and he got calls completely wrong.


That's all subjective though. There are calls in every game that some will disagree with and that opinion usually rests on which team you cheer for. It doesn't mean the referee is wrong every time, like most fans think.


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## lad

Well done Germany.


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## Canadian Brotha

Truly well deserved though! Lowe's been building this team since 06 & you could see it coming to them if you look back that far


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## TicklemeRingo

A great day for blonde people everywhere.


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## gunner21

TicklemeRingo said:


> A great day for blonde people everywhere.


German master race checking in.


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## TicklemeRingo

gunner21 said:


> German master race checking in.


:b

How about that goal keeper?

I've never seen a more German-looking German.


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## PGVan

Ok, I don't think Messi was bad, but he was not even close to being the best player at the tournament. Both Rodriguez from Colombia and Robben from Holland were better.


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## Zack

Civilisation and savagery played tonight. One won. One lost.


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## gunner21

Messi with the golden ball. That's some rigged ****.


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## minimized

Yeah, total sympathy vote for Messi imho.


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## foe

Unless he gets a hat trick or something liek that, you don't give the best player trophy to a losing player. 

That's lame!


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## Zack

ALL this Pele and Maradona worship is 99% _nostalgia_ and 1% truth. Look at the grainy video tape of their play and their goals and they are no way a whole metaphorical league above today's superstars like Messi and Ronaldo. Pele and Maradona look slow, slightly overweight and like they smoked and drank at half time... They were lucky that their nationality meant they won one or more World Cups. In that sense Bale will never be a superstar.


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## PGVan

foe said:


> Unless he gets a hat trick or something liek that, you don't give the best player trophy to a losing player.
> 
> That's lame!


I don't quite see it this way. The best player award doesn't have to go someone on the winning team. It's not an MVP award. Messi wasn't good enough, no question. I don't think Germany had one player who stood out enough for this award either. They won with great organization and having a few clutch players.

Because it's not an MVP award, I would give the nod to Arjen Robben over James Rodriguez. Rodriguez scored big goals to get Colombia to the QF and would be an MVP of the tournament in my opinion. Best player though? Robben had 3 man of the match awards and you could have argued for 4 or even 5 of his team's 7 matches. (Yes I'm a bit biased, but I think a lot of neutrals would argue that Robben was nothing short of amazing at this WC.)


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## Zack

Anyhoo, I have drunk the best part of a bottle of this -->










And some beer, but that doesn't count. Beer is for lightweights...


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## PGVan

Zack said:


> ALL this Pele and Maradona worship is 99% _nostalgia_ and 1% truth. Look at the grainy video tape of their play and their goals and they are no way a whole metaphorical league above today's superstars like Messi and Ronaldo. Pele and Maradona look slow, slightly overweight and like they smoked and drank at half time... They were lucky that their nationality meant they won one or more World Cups. In that sense Bale will never be a superstar.


You're not wrong, but the same can be said for any sport. It's a different generation today. Back in the mid 1900s, chain smoking and getting drunk every day wasn't known to be bad for you lol. Athletes of the mid 1900s would be blown out of the water athletically by today's generation of gym rats and nutritionists.


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## Folded Edge

Over all a great final, pretty nervy from the get go. Without doubt the best team won, (the game and tournament) 
with what was a quite simply, brilliant goal. :clap A brilliant finish to a truly great World Cup.

_Deutschland über alles_ :yes

I feel for Messi though, the pressure on him from the worldwide press was simply ridiculous, they made it appear that he was Argentina's only player. He may be a great player but it's teams that win / loose games and tournaments. Expecting one player to carry you through is pretty stupid IMO. 
I do agree that he shouldn't have won the golden ball though.


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## Zack

Folded Edge said:


> Over all a great final, pretty nervy from the get go. Without doubt the best team won, (the game and tournament)
> with what was a quite simply, brilliant goal. :clap A brilliant finish to a truly great World Cup.
> 
> _Deutschland über alles_ :yes
> 
> I feel for Messi though, the pressure on him from the worldwide press was simply ridiculous, they made it appear that he was Argentina's only player. He may be a great player but it's teams that win / loose games and tournaments. Expecting one player to carry you through is pretty stupid IMO.
> I do agree that he shouldn't have won the golden ball though.


"Great" is stretching it a bit. The first 30 minutes were boring.


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## Folded Edge

Zack said:


> "Great" is stretching it a bit. The first 30 minutes were boring.


That of course is subjective. Thankfully we are all entitled to our own opinions. 
Remembering previous finals that ranged from not so great to pretty terrible, especially ending with penalty shoot outs (I can't think of a worse way of deciding a game never mind the World Cup)

Nah I think it was a pretty great way to end a great tournament. :yes


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## Zack

Folded Edge said:


> That of course is subjective. Thankfully we are all entitled to our own opinions.
> Remembering previous finals that ranged from not so great to pretty terrible, especially ending with penalty shoot outs (I can't think of a worse way of deciding a game never mind the World Cup)
> 
> Nah I think it was a pretty great way to end a great tournament. :yes


Well, my memory has been ****ified by ECT I had in May/June, but I'm not complaining.


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## MindOverMood

Just found out it was Vitaly that ran onto the field:lol


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## Micronian

Folded Edge said:


> That of course is subjective. Thankfully we are all entitled to our own opinions.
> Remembering previous finals that ranged from not so great to pretty terrible, especially ending with penalty shoot outs (I can't think of a worse way of deciding a game never mind the World Cup)
> 
> Nah I think it was a pretty great way to end a great tournament. :yes


There were certainly plenty of chances. It's too bad Higuaín missed that first one. It would have made it a more open game. But each team had their chance to score.

The only thing I didn't like was all the passing that Argentina did when they attacked. Maybe it's because the ball is so light that shooting outside of the penalty area will always go over the net, but I miss the great shots from 25 yards out. And there really weren't any today.


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## gunner21

MindOverMood said:


> Just found out it was Vitaly that ran onto the field:lol


I hate this guy. Such a douchebag.


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## gunner21

TBH I'm kinda glad the wc is over. Now we can get back to club football which is wayyyy more exciting than this snooze-fest. (lettuce be realtea, the knockout stages were boring as fuk)


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## PGVan

http://www1.skysports.com/FIFA-Worl...pointed-with-netherlands-coach-louis-van-gaal

I think the message here is that selfish *****holes like this have no place in Oranje's squad. Good precedent and I hope Hiddink leaves him in his own little world.


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## MariLushi

Im still in tears, mostly because the person I watched this game with is German he cried happy tears. Oh this is so exciting and im so happy for Loew and his babies.


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## vanishingpt

Talk about nerve-wracking. Could've gone either way but glad it was Germany that took the win in the end. Strongest team throughout the tournament and they deserved it in my opinion. And wow, all those hits that Schweinsteiger took? And Kramer definitely looked dazed.

Also can't help but feel for Lionel Messi. So much pressure on him, not just nationally but world wide. Everyone expects so much from him but the team surrounding him isn't enough. Messi's not enough to carry the team, but he's still the best player for me.


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## MariLushi

The refs were crap in this game tbh, Basti was bleeding but he never gave up. And Gotze was a surprise, a lot of people where giving him crap. 

Ugh, I could careless for the Arg team. I kinda like them because they won over the Netherlands and we all know what they did to La Roja, so I was kind of sour for that still and Im glad they lost to them but then Argentina is just... Mascherano was the true hero and he is so underrated.


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## PGVan

vanishingpt said:


> Talk about nerve-wracking. Could've gone either way but glad it was Germany that took the win in the end. Strongest team throughout the tournament and they deserved it in my opinion. And wow, all those hits that Schweinsteiger took? And Kramer definitely looked dazed.


FIFA needs to adopt some kind of concussion protocol. No way Kramer should have been allowed to continue at all. On that note, FIFA also needs to have some people involved at their matches who know basic first aid. Had Neymar ended up paralyzed, it would have been the fault of the morons who moved him, put him in that bucket and carried/shaked him off the pitch.


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## Micronian

PGVan said:


> FIFA needs to adopt some kind of concussion protocol. No way Kramer should have been allowed to continue at all. On that note, FIFA also needs to have some people involved at their matches who know basic first aid. Had Neymar ended up paralyzed, it would have been the fault of the morons who moved him, put him in that bucket and carried/shaked him off the pitch.


I don't know how much better a stretcher would have done. The wheels touching the grass would have made it just as bumpy. Ditto for a golf cart. And more padding on the orange bed/bucket means it becomes less portable. Though I think the team doctors and stadium paramedics should have a standard set of procedures for both head and spinal injuries.


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## Micronian

vanishingpt said:


> Talk about nerve-wracking. Could've gone either way but glad it was Germany that took the win in the end. Strongest team throughout the tournament and they deserved it in my opinion. And wow, all those hits that Schweinsteiger took? And Kramer definitely looked dazed.
> 
> Also can't help but feel for Lionel Messi. So much pressure on him, not just nationally but world wide. Everyone expects so much from him but the team surrounding him isn't enough. Messi's not enough to carry the team, but he's still the best player for me.


People equate club performance with international performance, but it is not like that at all. There is a lot more responsibility in international soccer for both defense and attack. With regular clubs and leagues it is less stressful because there are so many games and players of lower caliber, and the familiarity of playing every weekend takes away the jitters.


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## vanishingpt

PGVan said:


> FIFA needs to adopt some kind of concussion protocol. No way Kramer should have been allowed to continue at all. On that note, FIFA also needs to have some people involved at their matches who know basic first aid. Had Neymar ended up paralyzed, it would have been the fault of the morons who moved him, put him in that bucket and carried/shaked him off the pitch.


Yes I agree too that FIFA should do more about injuries like this. Kramer obviously looked out of it, and that empty stare said he obviously shouldn't have been on the pitch. A translation from one of the German articles says this:

_"I don't remember anything of the first half. Later, I thought I'd been substituted immediately after that tackle. I also do not remember how I got to the dressing room. In my head, the game begins at the second half."_

Link for anyone interested


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## PGVan

Micronian said:


> I don't know how much better a stretcher would have done. The wheels touching the grass would have made it just as bumpy. Ditto for a golf cart. And more padding on the orange bed/bucket means it becomes less portable. Though I think the team doctors and stadium paramedics should have a standard set of procedures for both head and spinal injuries.


Clearly the point I'm getting at is that they made zero effort at anything close to proper basic first aid procedures with Neymar. How they handled him was criminal. The first thing you do with a possible neck/spinal injury is immobilise the patient. I know this and I'm not certified to perform any level of first aid. They didn't even use a spineboard. Use one of those, THEN carry him off.

Going back to Kramer, when it comes to in-game concussions, team doctors should have no role. At the professional level, independent doctors should be on-call. Team doctors and trainers will always want their players to play. An independent doctor would have had Kramer off the pitch as soon as he was hit.


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## Dark Light

So this guy scored the decisive goal huh

http://screamer.deadspin.com/hey-check-out-mario-gotzes-boat-boner-1604597706


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