# Should I get back in touch?



## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

Following on from my recent blog about my former best friend bumping into me last week (here: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...3/a-close-encounter-of-the-wrong-kind-133945/), I'm looking for some advice and comments from fellow members.

Cutting a long story short, if you don't want to read through the whole blog, I'll explain it briefly: He bumped into me at the local pub last Wednesday. It's a pub I know he goes to and tried to avoid, but circumstances dictated I was kind-of pushed to go there. It's the first time I've actually seen him face to face in ten years, although we were in touch via Facebook until the back end of 2014 when I closed the account. When I say 'in touch', I use that term loosely. I used to try and keep in touch with him, but he'd either never reply to me, post anything on my wall or used to send me bizarre private messages once in a while wanting me to ask him how _he_ was doing... :?

He said a few times that evening that I "_must keep in touch_" - even though he knows full well my mobile phone number and where I live. He's made no effort, so the phrase "pot calling kettle" immediately springs to mind. 

Anyway, during the time he made himself known to me, he was typically talking about himself and I barely got a word out edgeways. One of the main reasons I lost touch with him was because as soon as he found his girlfriend (now wife, with one young child), he become ridiculously full of himself, put himself up on a pedestal and looked down at me as if I was three inches tall. Whilst he didn't do that on Wednesday evening, I could feel it was leading up to that when he asked me if I had got a girlfriend yet (aye - I'll just wave my virgin Wizard's wand around and magic one up as what most men can achieve without the power of magic by the age of 20 at the latest).

Anyway, I was discussing this with my work colleagues this morning and whilst I don't really get on with most of them, most seem to be in agreement that typically it's all my fault... 

They've suggested that I should get back in touch with him to see if he's really changed for the better and is now actually willing to communicate with me as a friend once more... Myself? I'm really not so sure, but am happy to hear what everyone has to say about this.

Please answer in the poll and if you have the time, explain why you've voted that way. I'm honestly open-minded and if the majority think I should give him another chance, I'll put the past to one side for argument's sake and try to get back in touch to see if he really has changed.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

I voted yes, purely it will clear up things and if it turns out to be a disappointment you can say "I least I tried". As long as you're level headed and keep the emotional investment in check, you have nothing to lose. And even if you do take a negative outcome badly, the alternative you always wondering "What if?" which is always the more torturous and lacking in closure. Waiting around is just gonna make it play on your mind 24/7. So yeah, if you want to mitigate long-term harm, call him up and take control of the situation.


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## yellowpages (May 16, 2012)

Personally, I would not bother. Judging by what you've written, he doesn't seem to think much of you, so to hell with it, if you want my opinion. Ask yourself: if you had lots of friends right now, would you still be interested in getting back in touch with him? Are you only considering this because you're desperate? (Not saying you are, by the way; I'm just posing a question for you) If he makes the effort to get in touch with you again, then maybe give him a chance if you'd really like to, though I personally don't recommend it. Leave the past where it belongs.


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## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies and votes so far... I do appreciate your input into this. I've done a lot of soul-searching thinking about this in recent days. Infact, it's been almost the only thing that's been at the forefront of my mind.

I've had several friends in the past who really have gone so far out of their way to make a joke about me or insult me that I'll never seek to get in touch with them again. They are most definitely in the past and they are people who I would openly go out of my way to avoid if I ever saw them even from a distance. It's one of the reasons why I've not actually shopped in my own town centre for close to five years. I refuse to. The only difference with this particular former friend is because he was my best friend and someone who I knew from an early age. We grew up together...and as odd or silly as it sounds, that makes a difference to me. It was only between the ages of 16-20 where his character began to change very much for the worst.

I wouldn't say I'm desperate - although maybe I'm going through one of those stages where I feel a little lonely again. It does happen from time to time and I think he just caught me at one of these rarer times. I'm more intrigued than anything else.

Anyway, I think I've come to a decision about this. I've tried to 'sit on the fence' as such - and come to a compromise. Late on last night I set up a brand new Facebook account, as I know this is the only sure way I can contact him again. I sent him a friend request. When I got up this morning, it had been accepted, but nothing else had been done. I contemplated just leaving it there, but after thinking about it for a few hours, I've sent him a private message and suggested a meet-up if he wants. I'm probably mad for doing so, especially after everything I've said about him. They're still statements I stand by.

I really don't want to have that "_What if?_" question looming over me. I think I need to know one way or another whether there really is a slight chance some sort of friendship could be made or whether he's still nothing more than an egotistical ar**hole. It's just the way he come across to me and put his arm around my shoulder that made me think there was at least some minor change in him...

If he doesn't reply to my private message, I won't push him and I'll leave it there. The answer is then very obvious. I'm not wasting any time on someone who has clearly shown himself to be very self-centered and 'up on a pedestal' against me in the past. I'm older, wiser and considerably less tolerant of these sorts of people than I once was. I won't be walked all over any more. I'll simply walk away before that happens, now. It's always 'giving in' to people that has partly lead me down this SA path in the first place.

If he replies, I'll take it from there and update you accordingly but believe me, if there ever is to be any meet-up again between us, I certainly won't be overly 'pally' towards him. After all, barring that brief meeting in the pub, I haven't actually seen him for ten years. Nothing has changed in my life and he's someone who can 'materalise' anything. The gulf between us is truly huge. He'd be just an acquaintance rather than a friend to me, now. Anyway...all this is speculation and there's no point in talking about it any more until he gets back in touch with me. That's if he even bothers, of course...

Needless to say, please continue to add your comments and votes anyway. I'm still interested to hear what other members have to say about this.


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## binckie (Dec 4, 2015)

Hayman said:


> Thanks for the replies and votes so far... I do appreciate your input into this. I've done a lot of soul-searching thinking about this in recent days. Infact, it's been almost the only thing that's been at the forefront of my mind.
> 
> I've had several friends in the past who really have gone so far out of their way to make a joke about me or insult me that I'll never seek to get in touch with them again. They are most definitely in the past and they are people who I would openly go out of my way to avoid if I ever saw them even from a distance. It's one of the reasons why I've not actually shopped in my own town centre for close to five years. I refuse to. The only difference with this particular former friend is because he was my best friend and someone who I knew from an early age. We grew up together...and as odd or silly as it sounds, that makes a difference to me. It was only between the ages of 16-20 where his character began to change very much for the worst.
> 
> ...


To me it is pretty simple: get in touch again!
But not with the idea to become "friends" again.
You just get in touch to see if you can be friends !

=> see how he reacts, treats you! If he acts like a jerk (as he seemed to have done) , just forget it!
This is your chance to finally figure out if he can be a true friend or not!


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## JohnDoe26 (Jun 6, 2012)

Hayman said:


> Following on from my recent blog about my former best friend bumping into me last week (here: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...3/a-close-encounter-of-the-wrong-kind-133945/), I'm looking for some advice and comments from fellow members.
> 
> Cutting a long story short, if you don't want to read through the whole blog, I'll explain it briefly: He bumped into me at the local pub last Wednesday. It's a pub I know he goes to and tried to avoid, but circumstances dictated I was kind-of pushed to go there. It's the first time I've actually seen him face to face in ten years, although we were in touch via Facebook until the back end of 2014 when I closed the account. When I say 'in touch', I use that term loosely. I used to try and keep in touch with him, but he'd either never reply to me, post anything on my wall or used to send me bizarre private messages once in a while wanting me to ask him how _he_ was doing... :?
> 
> ...


Don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever been diagnosed with Aspergers? The social cues here are quite clear. 1) He didn't bother to contact you all these years; 2) he spoke mainly about himself which indicates he hasn't changed; and 3) past experience should tell you that your coworkers are morons when it comes to helping you out with your social issues.

What you need to do here seems pretty clear to me. Don't initiate anything. If he really wants to start a friendship with you, let him initiate it (let him go out of the way and call you). You've already put in enough effort. You'll just come off as desperate at this point.

Edit to add: and the fact that he tells you to keep in touch and spoke to you at the bar seems more like a curtesy call than anything else, really.


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## JohnDoe26 (Jun 6, 2012)

And for those of you who voted yes, you really need to read Hayman's blog posts about his history with this guy. Along with his other blog posts about his other social experiences.


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## nexus321 (Mar 4, 2013)

Hey Hayman, what happened did he respond?
Oh and don't mind the guy who asked if you had Asperger's, I'm pretty sure he has issues.


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## Ominous Indeed (Sep 6, 2015)

JohnDoe26 said:


> And for those of you who voted yes, you really need to read Hayman's blog posts about his history with this guy. Along with his other blog posts about his other social experiences.


I would also say no. Even though I have not read the blog, he doesn't really seem very interested to contact Hayman. I voted "Let him get in contact with you".

I can definetly count on more than one hand where me and aqcuintances have met and said "You have to keep in touch", and nothing really happened afterwards.

To me it's more about, being polite and telling them, that you will at least remember them.


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## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies folks - much appreciated. He has indeed been back in touch and I will explain what happened at the bottom of this post. I'll try and reply to you all individually:

@binckie - This is pretty much my view on things entirely. If he seems okay, I'll consider getting back in touch again and maybe reforming some sort of friendship. I'm honestly open minded to the idea. After all, as things stand I don't have any friends and he was, after all, my closest friend until a child.

If he reacts like he did to me on Facebook at the start of this decade and indeed face to face ten years ago, then it's obvious he's changed for good and I won't pursue him again. I'll make my excuses and leave. I'm big enough and ugly enough to just walk away these days, rather than arguing and getting nowhere.

@JohnDoe26 - No offence taken! Several years ago, my own brother suggested that I could be borderline autistic in some way (maybe as you suggest), but in this case I can assure you, it's not me with a problem. As you will have seen in my blog over this particular guy, I explained how he was and how he changed towards the end of his teens and the turn of his 20's.

I understand your point over initiating things though. I absolutely hate doing this as I know the favour is never, ever repaid. This is why I broke away from most of my friends between the ages of 16-20. It was always up to me to run around like a headless chicken to keep my face in the frame - whilst they simply sat back and let everything 'materalise' for them. Sadly, I've fallen into this trap with this particular friend again by making all the contact. However, I promise you that this will be a one-off. If he doesn't contact me following this, then that's that. I've done my bit. It's time someone actually done something for me. This is some of the reason why I feel I have SA - it's always me running around getting nowhere, whilst witnessing everyone else simply 'spawn in' perks and progressions. Try and explain this to other people and immediately, the finger of blame is pointed back at me for not managing to get anywhere in life. How ironic/obtuse is that?!

@SamQwerty - He become quite a big-headed person towards the end of the time I was running around doing all the work in keeping contact. This was just over ten years ago. He become a little 'ar**holeish' around the age of 17/18 for reasons not entirely known. My mother simply said this is where he 'grew up' and I hadn't. As soon as his girlfriend 'materalised' for him at the age of 20, that was basically it. Full ar**hole mode. His confidence went through the roof, he become over-animated and I was worried his growing ego would explode his head&#8230; He somehow managed to develop from a reasonable guy like myself into a full blown Alpha male idiot over a period of three/four years. I've honestly never seen such a complete flip in someone's character like that before or since. Over Facebook a few years later, it was clear there was a 'clique' between him and mutual friends. He kept in touch with those of similar social standing to himself (i.e - had a girlfriend), but ignored the few left who hadn't (i.e - me). It would cramp his superior and "I'm always right, because I've proceeded further in life than you" status, you see&#8230; As soon as he was married, he started almost screaming from the rooftops about it to everyone and when his child appeared on the scene a few years back, his head officially disappeared up his own backside.

He probably was just being polite by saying "stay in touch", but after he threw his arm over my shoulder where he actually seemed genuine by saying it, I thought I'd call his bluff&#8230; I could do with a laugh&#8230;

@Demon Soul - Don't worry, I'm largely expecting that it was nothing more than him being polite. As above, I'm calling his bluff. One of two things will happen, he'll either eat his words by calling off a meeting, or he'll wish he'd probably stayed away and kept his mouth shut after meeting up with me!

@nexus321 - and indeed everyone else. He has indeed been back in touch to my private messages. I've basically copied and pasted it below so you can make your own judgement about it. At first, he seems really up for the idea, but just notice how he begins to cool off towards the end:

ME: I've signed back up to Facebook just to stay in touch as promised...! (I closed it over a year ago - had enough of it). We'll have to arrange a meet-up sometime and have a proper catch up. Preferably when the <name of pub>isn't rammed full and we can't hear ourselves think!

HIM : Yeah for sure! It was busy in there that night. We left about half 10. I'm up for a catch up amy time mate, although Friday afternoons are best for me. What hours do you work?

ME: We went at full time (after the football match) - just got a bit too heavy for me. Not only that, we had a takeaway arranged to be delivered at 10:15pm, so couldn't hang around! I'm actually in work at the moment. Got about five minutes of downtime! I work 8am-5pm Monday to Friday (so weekdays are pretty much out of the question for me - too knackered to do anything after work!). Off pretty much every weekend. We'll figure something out, I'm sure...! No rush at all. Obviously as and when our 'schedules' can meet up at some point. Just let me know

HIM: For sure. I can make pretty much any weekend night. I'm smashing the overtime at the moment to save for a holiday you see. Fancy a few next weekend?

ME: I'd love to! Yeah...no worries about this weekend (this was written last Friday). I'm sure it's too short notice anyway! Haha! Overtime basically pays for our holidays too! I can certainly meet you at the <name of pub> next Saturday evening (16th) if you want. About 7ish, for a couple of hours? A few pints and a chat?

HIM : I should be able to make that mate! See you then! We might as well walk together.

ME: Yeah, that's fine. No probs! I can walk round to yours first if you want - or you can come here? Up to you - not fussed either way!

HIM: Either that or I'll get us a lift.

ME: Aye no worries! We'll decide on the evening. I'll walk up to yours then, if that's okay? We'll go from there. I honestly don't mind walking it if no lift is available - I try and walk a few miles each weekend anyway!

HIM: Yeah of course. I'll just see how it goes. I might be working Saturday afternoon so I'll have to check the work schedule for this week and let you know if I can definitely make it. Been busy this weekend. Sheet metal work.

He's not responded back following on from this, so as far as I'm aware the meet-up I've arranged is in the balance. As you can see. I've done all the arranging - the problem will be from the other end. Explain this to anyone though and things like this, which I used to do ten years ago, is all my fault apparently... :um :?

If anyone can see what I've done wrong exactly, please let me know as I can't see where I can be blamed for this - if he does let me down.

Lets see if he makes good on this or lets me down.

So, roll on this Saturday, 7pm (GMT). It's 'D Day'!


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## Ominous Indeed (Sep 6, 2015)

@Hayman

First I would like to say that I am not sure if I am biased when I see this or not, because you are on a Social Anxiety forum.

You asked to go out, things are fine, I guess, but you don't come off as very confident in your responses. You keep asking him for approval. You are writing a lot more than as well, so I can assume that you care more than him.

I haven't really decided for myself if that is a turn off or not, but I guess it is.

Hopefully you can show him your true self this time you are going out.


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## muirmuir (Dec 14, 2014)

If you do "keep in touch," be a little more emotionally distant and understand that you'll probably never get any kind of validation from him. I have a couple of friends like this and I refuse to get close because every time we talk it's all about him and he doesn't really care all that much about my thought and opinions in general. He's never been supportive and kind of looks down on social anxiety as if it's a character flaw. I use to kind of buy into it, but now I know otherwise and also know that being that self-absorbed and obnoxious is not such a great way to be either. I still will talk to him when I'm bored or lonely but will never get too "invested" in anything. If you can do that, you should be OK. Otherwise, it's better to just cut ties. Being around someone like that is sometime worse than no one at all because when someone makes you feel unimportant, it can make you feel even more alienated and lonely than before.


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## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

Well, tonight is the night... I am literally typing this before I have a (very quick) bite to eat and a shower before I head out to meet him. As things stand, everything is still 'on' for 7pm this evening and I must say, I feel positively sick at the moment. My stomach has been in a knot for most of the day, actually. I sent him a quick private message this morning and his reply was actually quite positive - "_Oh yes! Well looking forward to it mate!_". Well, we'll soon see about that...

I'm going into 'battle' open-minded, as my work colleagues insist that I do. I won't go with a negative outlook on things and I'll let him do the talking for the first ten/fifteen minutes or so, before I begin to gauge how I think the evening is going to plan out for me. I know I won't have to do all that much as he'll do most of the talking for me anyway . That's what he used to do towards the end of our face-to-face friendship.

If he seems more caring than he used to be, then I'll try my best to let 'sleeping dogs lie' and see if there's anything we have in common now, rather than dredging up issues of the past. If he has genuinely improved, I will make my best efforts to keep my mouth shut or put certain things across in a more 'joking' way. If he doesn't seem all that much different and remains an overly confident and egotistical individual who has kept himself up on that pedestal (looking down on me for not doing certain things), then I will be very seriously tempted to open up a little to him about the issues I've had. If that's the case, I highly suspect I'll be home within an hour/hour and a half. I'll make my excuses, leave and make no effort to contact him again.

I'll just have to wait and see. I'll gauge the mood there and then rather than make solid assumptions now. It's only fair...

Anyway, wish me luck. I feel as though I'm going out to literally dance with the devil...

:afr
@Demon Soul - Nope! I'm not confident in the slightest. Your assumption is correct! I like approval or some form of assurance as he has let me down in the past. He used to be unreliable ten years ago and I don't want a wasted trip. I wouldn't say I care more, it's purely for the purposes to make sure I won't end up walking the streets and being in the pub completely alone. If he had called it off, it would have been a relief, rather than a disappointment.

Sadly, I have experience in the past of making arrangements a few weeks in advance, only to be let down at the last minute as they've forgotten, double booked (as everyone else seems to have spawned dozens of friends since leaving school :?) or simply can't be bothered. Again, this is one of the reasons why I have SA in the first place. It's happened to me plenty of times, but I don't hear of such continuous woes from other people...
@muirmuir - Very valid points. Rest assured, if there is to be any future bond between us, I will not be anywhere near as emotionally attached as I used to be. I'll never be able to connect with him again that way because those few years where he transformed into an 'Alpha Ar**hole' really did upset me. I think, at best, he'll be just an acquaintance.

After all, I've had no friends for ten years. It's no big deal to me and I'd say I've found it more of a relief not to have any at all, than to have had the few I had at the end of my teens. I'm used to being lonely and I've learnt to prefer my own company.


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## vxvxcvv (Jan 19, 2016)

Hayman said:


> Following on from my recent blog about my former best friend bumping into me last week (here: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...3/a-close-encounter-of-the-wrong-kind-133945/), I'm looking for some advice and comments from fellow members.
> 
> Cutting a long story short, if you don't want to read through the whole blog, I'll explain it briefly: He bumped into me at the local pub last Wednesday. It's a pub I know he goes to and tried to avoid, but circumstances dictated I was kind-of pushed to go there. It's the first time I've actually seen him face to face in ten years, although we were in touch via Facebook until the back end of 2014 when I closed the account. When I say 'in touch', I use that term loosely. I used to try and keep in touch with him, but he'd either never reply to me, post anything on my wall or used to send me bizarre private messages once in a while wanting me to ask him how _he_ was doing... :?
> 
> ...


But why didn't he keep in touch during all those years? That is the question you have to ask yourself. Friendship is a two way street.

It's on tough one. On one hand we don't want to be lonely and it is nice to have friends, but on the other hand you don't want to get snubbed again and taken for granted.

Personally I would approach this with no expectations, and try to seek out new friends somehow.


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## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

Okay folks. The meeting has taken place and I've just taken a few days away from this thread to process what happened through my head. In short, it wasn't quite as bad as I expected it would be, but there were numerous things that happened which just confirmed to me why he's a former friend in the first place.

Firstly, the positives. He actually got in touch with me shortly after my last post saying he'd like to bring forward the 7pm time and that I could come round as and when I was ready. So, I basically got changed and went out. On arrival at his house I thought something wasn't quite right that I'll explain later on. I rang his doorbell and I stood there for a while. I saw movement through the frosted glass so I knew he was there. Anyway, he did eventually answer the door but didn't invite me in to re-introduce me to his wife or introduce me to his son, which I thought was odd :?. Instead, he just come out the door, closed it behind him and off we walked. Again, this slightly odd treatment at the door made more sense later on as I'll explain&#8230;

Anyway, nothing much to report en-route to the pub. It was just a friendly talk about football at first but he told me another former friend of mine was going to join us (again, he liked to arrange things without my knowing before hand), but it turned out he was in hospital with his wife welcoming the birth of his second child. Good news for him of course, but again, just proves how far behind I am in every single aspect of life.

So, at the pub it started off quite well. I bought the first round of drinks. He did seem much warmer than he was ten years ago and slightly more genuine. Of course, his ar**hole alpha traits were all there to see, but I become used to that by the end of my teens when this 'developed' for him. Naturally, you have to be in this state in order to get anywhere in life as a male these days, especially with members of the opposite sex. This didn't surprise me in the least.

However, this is where things started to go downhill and I done well to bite my lip on quite a few occasions. He wasn't nasty in any way, but the way he worded certain things did upset me. He claimed I'd become obscure in recent years with those who remember me and that all I've done is shut myself away. Aye, I wonder why that is&#8230;  To a degree he's correct. I have. I couldn't argue. However, I've had my reasons to which just about everyone else is blind to see. People's attitudes and constant probing of my way of life being one of several reasons&#8230; My point in return to that is why had no one been in touch with me when they'd had my mobile number in the past. This hasn't changed. I was also on Facebook for more than five years. No one was bothered with me, regardless of my comments on their walls. He couldn't answer either point other than naturally, it's somehow my fault that I wasn't trying to put in all the effort to keep in touch with them :um . Ummm&#8230;it takes two people to make a successful communication, sunshine&#8230; No one has given me the motive to stay in touch.

He also claimed he saw another former friend of mine in the pub the other week. Let's just call him 'P'. He claimed this friend reckoned I'd 'jibbed him off' and wanted nothing more to do with him. Ummm&#8230;.nope. This particular friend and I simply went our own ways at 16 and other than one Facebook message several years later, never actually saw or spoke to each other again. Our last contact was talking about something funny that happened in our past, to which he replied quite positively to. How did I 'jib him off' with that?! :? Sorry, buy my former friend is either talking nonsense or 'P' has somehow took offence to me closing my Facebook account - to which he never actually once made a comment on my wall. It was always me commenting on his - until I got bored of getting no reply, barring that one single occasion.

Now, this is where things turned positively frosty involving his wife as I mentioned above. You have to listen to this one&#8230; My former friend turned 30 last July. I turned 30 last April. As regulars to my posts will know - I never had anything done for me. It was just another day. However, my former friend's wife had all sorts arranged for him. According to his wife, she contacted me on Facebook a few months before his party and apparently I said I didn't want to go and made up some excuse :?. I looked down, shook my head and started to giggle to myself. He looked at me rather angrily and concerning at the same time. I advised him that I sent two requests to his wife when I was still on Facebook. Both requests were turned down. Not only that, I hadn't used Facebook since November 2014 - when the account ceased to actually exist. So, how did she actually get in contact with me?! The truth is, she hasn't. She's basically telling an outright lie about me :eek. He had no response to that other than he'll have a word with her about it. Aye, I think he better had&#8230; No wonder why I wasn't invited into the house. It was obvious she wanted to stay away as I bet this is what he wanted to lay into me about. I lent forward on the table over to him, holding my pint in both hands. I simply said "_You see&#8230; It's things like this which keep me away. This is why I'm such a nervous and anxious person_". He just looked down at the table for a short while before looking back up at me. "_I think I'm beginning to see your point_". At this point I just smiled back spread out my arms to my sides and said "_Finally. We might be getting somewhere, at last! Hallelujah!_".

He seemed to briefly perk up a little bit towards me following this. I wonder why, eh?! He was going to invite me to go camping with him and a few other former friends. He knows full well camping is not my thing and he knew full well I'd say "_no thanks_" to it - which I did. Rather than leaving it there, he then told me "_See, you've always been stubborn_" :um. I just smiled in reply and reminded him of what I just said about why I stay away from people. I told him that it's simply not what I'd like to do, not stubbornness. There's things I like to do which he doesn't. I don't go immediately accusing people of being stubborn for simply having other interests. I kept my composure surprisingly well and told him that I was enjoying this quiet drink we were having (I wasn't, but I needed to show him that I'm the more rational person out of the pair of us). I told him I would happily come to this pub or indeed any other local one with him as and when he wanted. I also told him I'd happily go to any of his numerous house parties he holds. I'm telling him I'm not staying away and showing him I will hang out with him at events which I feel comfortable at. This is when I started to open up a little bit more about my SA and that I need to take "baby steps", rather than trying to learn to run when I can barely crawl. Naturally, he didn't really understand this and used the same old phrase my work colleagues say "_But, you need to get out there_". My reply? "_What do you think I'm doing at the moment?! What do you think I'm doing here, in a pub, having made all the arrangements to meet you? This is my effort! With SA, this is an awful lot of effort!_" . He nodded as my point was kind-of sinking in, but insisted I still need to do more. This is the problem between regular people and ourselves. They don't see that doing what they see as the little things in a social life is a big thing for us. This is what they simply cannot understand.

Oh yes, at this point, I notice two former school friends arrived in the pub, went to the bar to buy a drink and started walking across. People who I've not seen for about 14 years and I was surprised both are still in the area. Anyway, they shake hands with the former friend I'm sitting with and start talking to him - completely blanking me, despite the fact I'm looking straight at them :roll. After a few minutes they sit on the table behind us and keep themselves to themselves. "_Didn't you know who they were?_" my former friend asked. "_Of course I did_" I replied and gave both their names, to which he was surprised. I then pointed out the issue I have with people completely snubbing me as another reason as to why I stay away. I wanted them to remember me and at least give me the courtesy of a handshake, but no, there was nothing. My former friend looked down at the table again and said "_I'm starting to build a picture of what's happening, here&#8230;_". What he meant by that I don't know. Whether he meant he understood where I was coming from or whether he was trying to think of another way to blame me for this but didn't have the heart to say it was somehow all my fault again - especially after the issue with his wife.

(END OF PART ONE - TO BE CONTINUED BELOW!)


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## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

(PART TWO)

Lastly, there was the age-old probing issue of me remaining a dateless virgin. He was genuinely surprised to hear that my plight hadn't changed and naturally, started to point out all the women in the bar - who were all taken. He missed that point out, though. I advised what I've done in the past and afterwards said he thought I was gay until I just said what I'd done and completely failed at :roll. You see, he's never faced rejection after rejection, or snubbing after snubbing. His wife approached him without him having to do so much as lift a finger and that was it... He's never seen how difficult it is, as a Beta male, to attract any sort of attention, never mind a date or more... So again, accusations of being gay are still to this very day, being aimed at my direction when the truth is basically no lady is interested in me. There's absolutely nothing more to it than that, but Alpha males don't understand that not everyone can 'materalise' a fling or a relationship by merely going out somewhere :no. It works for them but it doesn't work for us. This is when my former friend turned Alpha...in his very late teens and that's how his wife materalised for him. I was there when it happened. His character completely flipped overnight. He was given a reason for his confidence to grow and that in turn, turned him egotistical. This is why I lack confidence - as I see this happen to other men and never me. I see ladies give them the attention in order to develop confidence. Where's my attention, exactly? When's it my turn? He just looked at me completely and genuinely bemused whilst I described what the problems are that I face. In short, he's clueless.

Anyway, we were there for just over four hours in total. Of course we discussed plenty of other things – mainly about himself and how brilliantly my other friends were doing except for myself. However, these were probably the main highlights of me bringing forward my points about SA and live evidence to support my case. 

We walked home, I shook his hand and again reiterated I'm not staying away. He's more than welcome to invite me out to things like what we've just had – a few beers. I don't know how much more obvious I can be with him. 

So now, it's up to him. I've done all the legwork to get back in touch and arrange that meeting. Lets just see if he, as a former friend, is now willing to repay some of that or will I again simply prove my point about me having to do all of the legwork, all of the time, to simply stand still or go backwards. This is what no one else can see and it's that which frustrates me the most. I'm the one who's always going the legwork but in an ironic twist, I'm told I need to do something I'm already doing just to get nowhere. Meanwhile, everyone else who puts in less effort have things 'materialising' for them. Why can't anyone else see this?! Why can't anyone see that a lot of my SA issues are actually coming from external sources (beyond my control) and not from within?!

Will I see him again or won't I see him again? I have no idea. I'll honestly be surprised if he gets back in touch with me as according to him (and most others), I need to 'do more' to stay in touch. Even though it's something I have done and only been completely ignored or slapped in the face for doing so. This is why I now sit back as it's pointless. Will I get back in touch with him? Hmmm…. Probably not to be honest. I honestly wouldn't be bothered if it's another ten years before we run into one another again… At least I gave, in my opinion, pretty much as good as I got this time around. I certainly feel a stronger person for confronting him and I don’t regret meeting up. 

It's just a shame I don't think it'll open up a new door for me. Then again, I never expected it would.


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## zomb (May 4, 2014)

I'm an 'all or nothing' type of person. 
If he can't be a good friend who you can say anything to, without fear of judgment, or wtvr else then they can't be a friend at all, not even someone you talk to every now and then casually.
He seems the sort not to be a good friend to you. And he's not interested in you, clearly. 
Realistically forget he exists.


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## olympicchicken (Jan 30, 2016)

See, your mistake was letting go of your cynicism, believing for a second it might be possible to escape this Kafkian nightmare of loneliness we find ourselves in. People will offer you exit doors, but they're mirages in the desert.


People will tell you things because they feel a momentary compassion for you. But the truth is no one really cares for each other, and if you try to breach through this unspoken glass that separates us, they will simply withdraw. 



It's best to resign from this longing of a deep connection, share only the pleasant trivialities with people and smile vaguely. It must be possible to change your inner self into this.


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## Hayman (Dec 27, 2014)

I'm sorry I've not been back to this thread for a bit - it's been a busy couple of weeks and I do have some more news.

I did meet up with him again last Friday evening for another few pints. He actually instigated it all - which I'm genuinely surprised about. That's the first time he's actually thought about asking me out for a drink in close to 11 years. He had to be up early on Saturday morning, so we weren't there for too long.

Cutting a long story short, it went along a little smoother than last time but I'm beginning to establish he's still the ar**hole I remember from ten years ago. The person who I no longer wanted to know. He's certainly mellowed though. He's more stomachable than he used to be and does seem genuinely interested in keeping in touch again - the only reason I agreed to a second meet-up. I opened up a little more to him about my problems than I did in my first proper meet-up with him a few weeks prior (as explained in my double post above) as I thought there was some scope there for him with regards to actually listen to me. Hmm&#8230;he did kind-of listen to a degree and actually managed to not talk over me this time. However, he's a bit like my brother in the fact that you think you're getting somewhere and he appears to understand. But if you go on a little too much, he'll just suddenly snap or laugh at you, claim it's all your fault and then start repeating the same old dross you've already heard countless times before about merely "being" confident and going out more .

His main problem now isn't so much what broke down our friendship the first time around - but a problem he used to have which seems to have developed from a mere annoyance ten years ago into something which could potentially break up this very loosely re-established friendship again. In short, he's like a dog with a bone&#8230;. Once he gets an idea in his head, he won't let it go. He doesn't want me to take small steps to improve my social standing in an attempt to get over at least some of my anxiety. He wants me to take giant leaps and has even said as such. I'm sorry but this isn't going to happen. That'll just make me shrink straight back into my shell again. He's invited me to go camping with him this summer with a few of his new friends to try and introduce me to new people. His intentions are all very well and good and I thank him for the offer. However, he simply won't understand that this really is too much for me. I've tried to compromise with him and happily offered to meet up with him and his friends during the day - going back home in the evening (even though it's about a four hour all-round trip). This is me putting up a 'brick wall' apparently :um. I've explained I don't enjoy camping as it's something I've done before and didn't like. Again, I offered to meet up with him and his friends during the day. I do genuinely mean that. Again, I'm just putting up 'brick walls' apparently. He says I need to drink a crate of beer with him and his friends at this camp site. I've explained that I have colitis which in my case does limit the amount I can drink otherwise it can make me very ill to the point of hospitalisation. Again, I'm just putting up 'brick walls'. An actual proven medical condition that I have, is somehow me putting up brick walls.

I'm coming up with alternatives and compromises to him. It's actually him that's putting up the brick walls and like many people I know, they're blaming the person willing to go out of their way as the person putting up all the barriers&#8230;

:wtf

It's his way or no way&#8230; He did start going like this in his later teens but he seems to now act like a child if you don't follow his law to the letter. I think this could be the major sticking point for us. He comes up with an idea. If I like it and do it - all is well. If I don't like it but willing to come up with a compromise which I feel would actually benefit me to consider pushing myself further in future (something I wouldn't have done a decade ago), I'm the bad guy&#8230; :?

I'm glad I met up with him again, but lets just say if there's no more contact between us, it won't be any hardship to me. At least I now have a good idea who he is and I won't have that "_what if?_" question on my mind.

I'll just play things by here but I honestly can't see this new-found semi-friendship lasting for very long. We're two completely different people now.


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## Rains (Jan 20, 2016)

Thanks for updating. I'd be interested if you made more updates. There are some things that struck me by what you wrote though. First of all, there's a theme through this whole thread of you feeling victimized. Maybe you are victimized, but if you suggest that to the people who you feel victimized by they're going to feel vilified and resentful, and it just won't bode well. 

And you also seem vigilant for signs of being victimized, which is skewing how you perceive things. Like how you took offence at your friend not introducing you to your family because you think he's wife was offended by you not replying on facebook. You don't know for sure that's the reason, so you're kind of jumping to conclusions or exaggerating things, and perpetuating your worldview as a victim. Also, you took offence at those old high school friends who met up with your friend in the pub but didn't say hi to you. I don't think it's worth blaming them, because they could just as easily blame you for blanking them and not saying hi. Then it all escalates into misunderstandings and animosity for no good reason. Ideally your friend should have broken the ice and reintroduced you all, but that doesn't always happen. 

Also, I get the impression you have a knack for mildly offending people in general? It might be because they feel vilified, or because they're put off by you in subtle ways. Even your colleagues seemed to suggest this, but again you seem to resent their feedback because you felt blamed again. I don't know but since it keeps happening you should seriously look into why you keep attracting that. 

And as for the friend, he's on a mission now to fix you. This also doesn't bode well for friendship. Maybe you can try to redirect the friendship by talking less about your SA and people problems, and not mentioning much how you feel like you're always blamed. When you open up to people, people often feel compelled to help. Some people will try to help by just being present and listening without judgement, but others are solution oriented, like this guy, and start pressuring you into uncomfortable situations which you know will just backfire. You can tell him you appreciate his concern, but that right now his company is help enough. Also just acting as a social buffer like introducing you when you bump into acquaintances in public (like in the example at the pub) can make a big difference.


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

*same as finding work or suicide*

I bet some people are fortunate to say yes/no at every stage in life to get wealthy

some (me) have myriads of choice... dilemma to deal with... no flick switch or radio buttons

time is the main factor

how many times you win/lose
peaks & perks made me feel so good for the future. I wish that never happened. 
Nothing continues forever.


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