# Straight Men Who Have Sexual Feelings for Transsexual Women: Gay or Straight?



## MetalRacer

Earlier today I came across a debate like this on another message board and it made me think about this throughout the day.

Here is a "natural" female:









And here is a "false" female:









The question here is:
*If a heterosexual male feels attracted towards transsexual/transgendered women (pre-op or post-op), does this make him gay or is he still straight?*

From what I understand, those in favor of it being "straight" argue that actual gay men are not really interested in transsexuals (despite the fact that they still have male organs if pre-op) and thus do not feel any sexual attraction as they would to actual males. They also argue that a heterosexual man's sexual interest in a transsexual woman is mostly due to how "feminine" the transsexual person looks (breasts, curved buttocks, "cute" hair, clean/happy face, "girly" voices, etc.), which they say shouldn't be seen as a way to place any burden on curious, heterosexual men who like seeing their women with something other than a vagina if they look and act very "feminine" overall.

Opponents, however, say it is without a single doubt "gay" because regardless of how the person looks the person is still a "man" because this person's sexual build was closer to that of a typical male's, regardless of how the transsexual felt emotionally otherwise...

So, what do you guys think? Is it gay or straight? And why?

I am neutral here; this is something that I still need time to think about. So there is an option for that if you are unsure or would rather hear what others have to say about it.


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## squidlette

TG women are still women. They just happen to have been born with the wrong bodies. There's plenty of evidence out there that indicates that TG women have women's brains (structure and chemistry) and even female skeletal structure; i.e., gracile skulls etc.


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## Hopeful25

First, let me say that this "natural female" is absolutely gorgeous :eek :fall

... Now then, this is exactly how I feel about it and why basically:



MetalRacer said:


> From what I understand, those in favor of it being "straight" argue that actual gay men are not really interested in transsexuals (despite the fact that they still have male organs if pre-op) and thus do not feel any sexual attraction as they would to actual males. They also argue that a heterosexual man's sexual interest in a transsexual woman is mostly due to how "feminine" the transsexual person looks (breasts, curved buttocks, "cute" hair, clean/happy face, "girly" voices, etc.), which they say shouldn't be seen as a way to place any burden on curious, heterosexual men who like seeing their women with something other than a vagina if they look and act very "feminine" overall.


If they like the transgender person not for their male body, but for their female attributes, I don't think they're gay. If they're not sexually attracted to their male physique, then they aren't gay.


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## Daft

Sexuality isn't absolute black-and-white. I can understand how some people are attracted exclusively to what defines "female" to them in both body and in spirit, but some people are a little looser about that because sexuality is much more like a sliding scale and people can connect on a variety of different levels (or not). I'd still call it heterosexual if I wanted to be simple about it, as what they're drawn to is their perception of a female and not a male. It's just people pigeonholing...


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## Jinxx

Lots of Transsexual Women tend to look really feminine so falling for one while being a straight man doesn't make you gay in my book. They're portrayed more as feminine rather than masculine so most likely right off a straight man would have thought that the transsexual woman was a natural woman. Natural instinct.


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## GaaraAgain

Whatever they identify as. It's not up to me to decide or judge.


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## Marakunda

They're whatever they themselves would like to be identified as I'd say...
If I see something that is appealing to me, then it appeals to me, simple as that. It's not something you can change, so just learn to deal with it.

And I'd say both of those women are damn beautiful.
I'd tap that, and I don't care what it makes me...
I'm the same person either way right?

If anything it'd make them Bi. I'd say.


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## Futures

Daft said:


> Sexuality isn't absolute black-and-white. I can understand how some people are attracted exclusively to what defines "female" to them in both body and in spirit, but some people are a little looser about that because sexuality is much more like a sliding scale and people can connect on a variety of different levels (or not). I'd still call it heterosexual if I wanted to be simple about it, as what they're drawn to is their perception of a female and not a male. It's just people pigeonholing...


This.

Sexuality can be fluid. I say stop worrying about labels and trying to fit it in a box and just roll with it.


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## meeps

squidlette said:


> There's plenty of evidence out there that indicates that TG women have women's brains (structure and chemistry) and even female skeletal structure; i.e., gracile skulls etc.


there is?


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## 50piecesteve

i vote gay fellas


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## MetalRacer

squidlette said:


> TG women are still women. They just happen to have been born with the wrong bodies. There's plenty of evidence out there that indicates that TG women have women's brains (structure and chemistry) and even female skeletal structure; i.e., gracile skulls etc.


Can you show any reliable sources on these claims?



50piecesteve said:


> i vote gay fellas


And why is that? Elaborate.


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## BobtheBest

I vote gay. They can look like a woman, talk like a woman, act like a woman, get female hormone injection, but that doesn't make them a woman. I see a woman as more than long hair, plastic surgery, and injections.

They can have an operation and think they're a woman, and live their lives the way they want. I can think I'm the king of the world, but that doesn't make it true.

I'm attracted to the natural woman in the first photo. I don't fall for men, no matter what they look like. Hope I didn't offend, but that just my view.


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## MetalRacer

BobtheSaint said:


> I'm attracted to the natural woman in the first photo.


You are only attracted to the lady in the first photo because it was specified she wasn't transgendered (the opposite in the case of the second).



BobtheSaint said:


> They can have an operation and think they're a woman, and live their lives the way they want.


According to some articles I've read, many who are intersexed feel like the gender they were assigned at birth are not quite exactly the same as what their minds are like. I have also read that gender and sex are two different things: gender is the "role" you are assigned in society (males are supposed to be big and strong, look dirty, etc. while the females are supposed to be pretty and compassionate, cook food for the family, clean the house, etc.), and sex is the biological buildup of your body.



BobtheSaint said:


> I don't fall for men, no matter what they look like.


But how would you know that, out of so many people out there who pass off as women so easily? And suppose you meet a lady down the street who looks so convincing and "legit" -- only to find a "big surprise" down her panties? What would you say to that? Or better yet, she has a vagina (you would assume she's a "natural" female) but you then find out later she had her penis removed? Does your sexuality lean more towards your feelings or what human carries around a specific genital that you like?

Not trying to come down on you, but I would appreciate an honest reasoning in your case so that I can take your argument into consideration.


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## squidlette

qweewq said:


> there is?


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19341803
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMcp1008161
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7689007.stm


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## squidlette

In addition to the TG brain scans, gender in general isn't a truly binary system. It's not always Male or Female as the only two options. Intersexed individuals exist over a wide spectrum of phenotypes AND genotypes. For example, there's androgen insensitivity syndrome, where a phenotypical female has XY chromosomes. It's not unheard of for these girls not to know about it at all until they hit puberty and learn they're infertile. The gender binary is more cultural than absolutely biological.


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## BobtheBest

MetalRacer said:


> You are only attracted to the lady in the first photo because it was specified she wasn't transgendered (the opposite in the case of the second).


Yup.



> But how would you know that, out of so many people out there who pass off as women so easily? And suppose you meet a lady down the street who looks so convincing and "legit" -- only to find a "big surprise" down her panties? What would you say to that? Or better yet, she has a vagina (you would assume she's a "natural" female) but you then find out later she had her penis removed? Does your sexuality lean more towards your feelings or what human carries around a specific genital that you like?


If that person had a switch of genders, I'd still think that's a regular person. I won't ever be attracted to them, but they still have thoughts and feelings like everyone else.



> Not trying to come down on you, but I would appreciate an honest reasoning in your case so that I can take your argument into consideration.


It's fine, this thread is interesting, and really makes me think...


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## Gryffindor85

Why wasn't bi an option on this poll?

I voted straight, but if being attracted to the false female makes me bi, than I'm bi. I don't consider myself bi, because I'm only attracted to feminine looks regardless of whether or not they come with a penis. I've never been attracted to a non transgender man, if that makes sense. Of course, I consider the "false female" a girl, so then I can say that I've never been attracted to any man.


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## MetalRacer

BobtheSaint said:


> Yup.


So if I switched them around, you would have picked just the one where it is specifically stated that is a "real" female.



BobtheSaint said:


> If that person had a switch of genders, I'd still think that's a regular person. I won't ever be attracted to them, but they still have thoughts and feelings like everyone else.


Well, sure. They _are_ people too, right? I'm saying _at one point_ you will feel some sort of attraction towards this imaginary transsexual lady (although you wouldn't know at the time and had just assumed she was a "regular" female). And once you find out her little secret, it's pretty much a two-end street: either accept that your feelings come first as to what you consider attractive in a woman or you try to force yourself away from the person, in disgust because you were tricked into thinking she was a "real" woman.

Alternatively, if you had to pick between a MTF transsexual or a FTM transsexual, who would you choose? Be honest here.



BobtheSaint said:


> It's fine, this thread is interesting, and really makes me think...


Which is why I started this thread, to hear what others have to say on this.


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## squidlette

Or if not bisexual, then pansexual could be an option. It's a relatively modern word that implies that a person is not hung up about the packaging, so to speak, and is inclusive of attraction to transgendered/genderqueer/third gendered individuals that are left out of the typical ****/hetero/bisexual paradigms.

I think using the terminology of "false female" could be influencing someone's opinion about the second picture. Unless that person is a cross dresser, rather than transgendered, there's nothing "false" about them. And no, I'm not urging any sort of hyper-PC wording here..... just making an observation that calling someone "false" could indeed lead observers to make judgments based on that wording rather than an unbiased opinion. Does that make sense?

Gender studies are fun. One of my favorite topics, actually. ^_^


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## successful

%100 gay


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## squidlette

How can somebody be 100% gay if they're attracted to women? I could see you making the claim for bisexuality, but gay? Really?


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## successful

squidlette said:


> How can somebody be 100% gay if they're attracted to women? I could see you making the claim for bisexuality, but gay? Really?


Op talking about trannys, not regular women.


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## squidlette

But not solely transgendered women. If a person identifies as heterosexual, then they have expressed attraction towards women. Presumably both cisgendered AND transgendered in the instance at hand. If we're talking about somebody who is *only* attracted to transgendered women, then sure, I can see the basis your opinion now. It just hadn't occurred to me that was the case.


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## BobtheBest

MetalRacer said:


> So if I switched them around, you would have picked just the one where it is specifically stated that is a "real" female.


Yes.



> Well, sure. They _are_ people too, right? I'm saying _at one point_ you will feel some sort of attraction towards this imaginary transsexual lady (although you wouldn't know at the time and had just assumed she was a "regular" female). And once you find out her little secret, it's pretty much a two-end street: either accept that your feelings come first as to what you consider attractive in a woman or *you try to force yourself away from the person, in disgust because you were tricked into thinking she was a "real" woman.*


I don't mean to sound shallow, but this would be my route. Honesty is important in relationships anyway.



> Alternatively, if you had to pick between a MTF transsexual or a FTM transsexual, who would you choose? Be honest here.


Neither.



> Which is why I started this thread, to hear what others have to say on this.


opcorn


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## MetalRacer

BobtheSaint said:


> I don't mean to sound shallow, but this would be my route. Honesty is important in relationships anyway.


It's easy for you to say that here, but if you were right there with the person you found/find quite "feminine" certain factors would probably change your reaction and make it the opposite of what you would assume you would typically say. You feel so attracted to the person, yet at the same time you don't like what is under there. If the person had a gender reassignment surgery, what difference would there be between having sex with a post-op transsexual and someone who was born with a vagina?



BobtheSaint said:


> Neither.


That is not a valid answer. I said pick _between_ those two choices in that question.


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## MetalRacer

squidlette said:


> But not solely transgendered women. If a person identifies as heterosexual, then they have expressed attraction towards women. Presumably both cisgendered AND transgendered in the instance at hand. If we're talking about somebody who is *only* attracted to transgendered women, then sure, I can see the basis your opinion now. It just hadn't occurred to me that was the case.


Don't worry about him. Until he bothers explaining his position, his posts here are of minimal importance and do not add to the thread at all. If he won't give a detailed explanation for his position on this controversial issue then I am assuming he's just another one of those "hit-and-run" posters.


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## squidlette

MetalRacer said:


> Don't worry about him. Until he bothers explaining his position, his posts here are of minimal importance and do not add to the thread at all. If he won't give a detailed explanation for his position on this controversial issue then I am assuming he's just another one of those "hit-and-run" posters.


He did explain himself. And I can accept his reasoning as much as anybody else's, even though I don't agree with it. I hadn't thought of it being a case of somebody who's solely attracted to TG women. Probably because it's not very common, though I do know it exists.


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## squidd

I don't know, I don't even like the terms gay or straight. Humans are sexual creatures in general, sexuality and gender are quite fluid. Black and white definitions are pretty useless and boring. Also that "natural" woman looks like she's had at least a little "unnatural" work done.


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## squidd

not to mention the massive amount of photoshop airbrushing on that photo


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## squidd

squidlette said:


> I think using the terminology of "false female" could be influencing someone's opinion about the second picture. Unless that person is a cross dresser, rather than transgendered, there's nothing "false" about them. And no, I'm not urging any sort of hyper-PC wording here..... just making an observation that calling someone "false" could indeed lead observers to make judgments based on that wording rather than an unbiased opinion. Does that make sense?


I very much agree with this. "false female" has such a negative connotation to it


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## Resonance

MetalRacer said:


> They also argue that a heterosexual man's sexual interest in a transsexual woman is mostly due to how "feminine" the transsexual person looks (breasts, curved buttocks, "cute" hair, clean/*happy face*, "girly" voices, etc.),


Women have...happy faces?

Also whether or not a man attracted to a transexual 'woman' is gay or straight is entirely dependent on....whether he is gay or straight. For instance, you might look at a woman in the street and think to yourself "she's hot"...but it might actually have been a transexual man, you cannot always tell at first glance and some look pretty convincingly female. Thus if a guy is attracted to what he thinks is a woman when actually it is biologically male, this doesn't make him gay. If, however, the guy is attracted to transexuals because to him they are like super-effeminate men, then he is gay. If he is specifically attracted to transexuals its likely his sexual orientation is something like transphilia (is that a word?).


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## InTheWorldOfNiM

No 100% gay man is going to be attracted to a transegendered woman, you know why? Because a gay man would ONLY be attracted to a MUSCULAR, MANLY figure. anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain ignorant. I am in know way attracted to men but If a met a woman who was trancegender and she was hot enough like say if nicki minaj was a trancegender woman then I wouldn't have a problem having a one night stand with her. wouldn't matter to me because she would look and sound 100 percent woman. If wanted children then thats another issue but if not then it wouldn't matter to me. Everything else would just be psychological.


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## visualkeirockstar

You're still straight if you didn't know he was a transsexual because you were attracted to a female body. But if you knew and kept looking for transsexual then yeah you're probably gay.


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## Marlon

It's not gay... the guy is attracted to the "woman" side of the person.


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## To22

I'm tempted to put an attraction to post-op TGs in a completely different category



squidlette said:


> *TG women are still women.* They just happen to have been born with the wrong bodies. There's plenty of evidence out there that indicates that TG women have women's brains (structure and chemistry) and even female skeletal structure; i.e., gracile skulls etc.


I have to disagree. What we consider gender isn't defined by any of the things you mentioned. A more irrefutable argument would be that with a sex change your body functions more so like the opposite gender. I don't know much on the topic, but do sex changes actually give you full functionality? Like can a TG woman have babies? If not unfortunately I'd have to say they are still technically a man...just a women at heart and in some ways in body.

The whole chromosome argument may make for a good one too, but I know nothing on the matter.

The interesting thing about it all is what exactly do people mean by "wrong bodies"? Do they feel as if souls or spirits exist and they happened to be paired up with the wrong body? If so, that's somewhat religious is it not?


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## Anyanka

I'm going with femme-loving pansexual. :b

Though, I honestly think it's up to the individual to decide on their sexuality for themselves.


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## basuraeuropea

p.s. on a serious note, i'm gay and those people who like those people are not gay.


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## Laith

i'm the straightest guy youll ever meet but dont have any problem with being gay or bi or whatever people like. but if a guy is attracted to TG then i think its obvious he's not straight.



squidlette said:


> There's plenty of evidence out there that indicates that TG women have women's brains (structure and chemistry) and even female skeletal structure; i.e., gracile skulls etc.


There's also plenty of evidence that indicates that they are not fully women. I'd say the most compelling piece of evidence is their dick lol.


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## Charmander

Straight. But are you asking if a guy deliberately goes looking for transgender women? I guess it might be different then. I'm straight but I've stumbled across transgender FTM's on Youtube and found them attractive. i.e. http://www.youtube.com/user/transmansable and http://www.youtube.com/user/skylarkeleven
I guess it applies to girls in the same way?


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## Zeppelin

PHP:







Laith said:


> i'm the straightest guy youll ever meet but dont have any problem with being gay or bi or whatever people like. but if a guy is attracted to TG then i think its obvious he's not straight.


I agree, it's definitely no way straight. I voted for gay.


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## probably offline

Charmander said:


> Straight. But are you asking if a guy deliberately goes looking for transgender women? I guess it might be different then. I'm straight but I've stumbled across transgender FTM's on Youtube and found them attractive. i.e. http://www.youtube.com/user/transmansable and http://www.youtube.com/user/skylarkeleven
> I guess it applies to girls in the same way?


Good point. But would you have sex with them pre-op(I'm not sure if OP is talking about just feeling an attraction or not)? Just appreciating someone's attractiveness is different. Much like how a straight girl can be attracted to a butch lesbian until it gets down to business and she realizes that she can't go through with it, for example.

@OP: I think it's impossible to make generalisations about this. Sexuality is fluid. At least for some. Especially since you're talking about both pre-op and post-op.


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## basuraeuropea

i don't understand how so many people are voting for gay. i mean, gay men are attracted to men and transgendered females are not men, thus those who are attracted to transgendered females are not gay. 

there is some other categorisation that needs to be placed in order to account for these individuals as if they are actively seeking out transgendered individuals on a non-fetishised basis, then neither heterosexual nor homosexual categorisation accounts for them.


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## probably offline

basuraeuropea said:


> i don't understand how so many people are voting for gay. i mean, gay men are attracted to men and transgendered females are not men, thus those who are attracted to transgendered females are not gay.
> 
> there is some other categorisation that needs to be placed in order to account for these individuals as if they are actively seeking out transgendered individuals on a non-fetishised basis, then neither heterosexual nor homosexual categorisation accounts for them.


I think that some people just need to learn the difference between RuPaul's drag race and born males who _identify_ as women and want to _become_ women xD


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## basuraeuropea

probably offline said:


> I think that some people just need to learn the difference between RuPaul's drag race and born males who _identify_ as women and want to _become_ women xD


oh my gosh, that was so beautifully said. as a member of the lgb community for some 28 years now, you really clarified it all, probably offline. epiphany! i really now understand the difference between jenny the tranny and latrice the drag queen.


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## probably offline

basuraeuropea said:


> oh my gosh, that was so beautifully said. as a member of the lgb community for some 28 years now, you really clarified it all, probably offline. epiphany! i really now understand the difference between jenny the tranny and latrice the drag queen.


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## sansd

I suspect that for just about any normalish straight guy, there is some male-to-female transsexual out there whom they would find attractive, at least in make-up and with the guy not knowing.

If someone is interested in transsexuals specifically, that's something other than "gay" or "straight".


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## nubly

Maybe bi-curious? A male that fronts as a woman isn't fully a woman, even post-op. Science isn't that advanced. Unless the dude smoked the tranny. Then he would be 100% bi.


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## Charmander

probably offline said:


> Good point. But would you have sex with them pre-op(I'm not sure if OP is talking about just feeling an attraction or not)? Just appreciating someone's attractiveness is different. Much like how a straight girl can be attracted to a butch lesbian until it gets down to business and she realizes that she can't go through with it, for example.
> 
> @OP: I think it's impossible to make generalisations about this. Sexuality is fluid. At least for some. Especially since you're talking about both pre-op and post-op.


It's hard for me to say. Maybe if I loved them, but I'd probably not be that comfortable with it.


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## InTheWorldOfNiM

Laith said:


> i'm the straightest guy youll ever meet but dont have any problem with being gay or bi or whatever people like. but if a guy is attracted to TG then i think its obvious he's not straight.
> 
> There's also plenty of evidence that indicates that they are not fully women. I'd say the most compelling piece of evidence is their dick lol.


you're confused


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## Laith

InTheWorldOfNiM said:


> you're confused


Actually, I'm not 

Though you seem to be:



InTheWorldOfNiM said:


> No 100% gay man is going to be attracted to a transegendered woman, you know why? Because a gay man would ONLY be attracted to a MUSCULAR, MANLY figure.


Silly generalization that is far from reality.



InTheWorldOfNiM said:


> I am in *know* way attracted to men but If a met a woman who was trancegender and she was hot enough like say if nicki minaj was a trancegender woman then I wouldn't have a problem having a one night stand with her.


Whats a trancegender? 
And its great you like TG. but no reason to pretend you're 100% straight. Just be who you are and have sex with people who were born male. and suck off nicki minaj lol.


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## Sacrieur

I'm as straight as a rail. I find some transgenders cute or sexually attractive. Although I wouldn't necessarily find the male plumping attractive, to say the least.

Female plumping required. But I'm not a bigot and I do regard them as women.


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## MobiusX

neither, it's called bisexual


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## basuraeuropea

MobiusX said:


> neither, it's called bisexual


umm, i'm not quite sure that falls under the definition of bisexuality.


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## Sacrieur

basuraeuropea said:


> umm, i'm not quite sure that falls under the definition of bisexuality.


You're right, his post actually falls under the definition of ignorance.


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## millenniumman75

It's just not the way we are designed.


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## gomenne

I'll just say that white people are mentally unbalanced.


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## changeme77

It's not gay at all imo.



basuraeuropea said:


> p.s. on a serious note, i'm gay and those people who like those people are not gay.


How can you argue with a gay person's opinion on this subject?


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## Sacrieur

millenniumman75 said:


> It's just not the way we are designed.


Even if this were the case, why must we behave in the manner we were designed?


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## Nitrogen

Straight because trans women are women.



millenniumman75 said:


> It's just not the way we are designed.


??


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## Noll

bisexual leaning more to hetero, not like it matters.


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## lad

Depends but I bet if most guys were having their way with a really attractive transgendered person and realised they had a pork sword half way through they would not stop.


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## nubly

lad said:


> Depends but I bet if *bi guys* were having their way with a really attractive transgendered person and realised they had a pork sword half way through they would not stop.


Fixed it for you.


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## StNaive

InTheWorldOfNiM said:


> No 100% gay man is going to be attracted to a transegendered woman, you know why? Because a gay man would ONLY be attracted to a MUSCULAR, MANLY figure. anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain ignorant.


Okay, so you're right about gay men not being attracted to transgender women, because they're _women_, but I also need to point out that, as a 100% gay guy, you're wrong about the MUSCULAR MANLY thing. Gay or straight, we all have types, and muscle men aren't for everybody. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain ignorant.


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## joey22099

This is one of the great mysteries of modern mankind.


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## lad

nubly said:


> Fixed it for you.


Are you bi? If so, do you fancy meeting up?


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## Revenwyn

Gay. You can't argue with the chromosomes.


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## PickleNose

I'd say they're bi. I'm not entirely sure there is any such thing as 100% straight. But since I'm bi myself and have never known anything else, I can't say for sure what goes on in the mind of someone who isn't me.

I also have a thing for women who are a little androgynous. But I like really feminine women too. There are a lot of men who fit into this category. That is to say that it's hard to put them into a category that has a name.


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## AussiePea

I would have thought it would be obviously "straight". You are attracted to what looks like and "is" a woman.

Also why are people voting based on what they believe the sexuality of the TG is, that isn't the question here.


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## Sacrieur

AussiePea said:


> I would have thought it would be obviously "straight". You are attracted to what looks like and "is" a woman.
> 
> Also why are people voting based on what they believe the sexuality of the TG is, that isn't the question here.


I'm enjoying how half the member base insists anyone who would call a transsexual attractive must be bisexual.


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## PickleNose

AussiePea said:


> I would have thought it would be obviously "straight". You are attracted to what looks like and "is" a woman.
> 
> Also why are people voting based on what they believe the sexuality of the TG is, that isn't the question here.


 Actually, I misread the question. I thought we were talking about transvestites or whatever you call the ones who actually look like women but still have a penis.


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## Milco

Revenwyn said:


> Gay. You can't argue with the chromosomes.


Well, chromosomes are a really bad definition of what gender people have.
There are disorders where the genetics don't fire properly and what would would have become a man doesn't get the testosterone at the right levels and the right times, and so fully and completely develops the body of a woman, with the only exception of not being able to have children.



AussiePea said:


> I would have thought it would be obviously "straight". You are attracted to what looks like and "is" a woman.


I think many men have a uhm.. penis-phobia? So pre-op, it's probably hard to find straight men who are attracted, but post-op, I think many would be - and still be considered 100% straight.


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## nubly

AussiePea said:


> I would have thought it would be obviously "straight". You are attracted to what looks like and "is" a woman.
> 
> Also why are people voting based on what they believe the sexuality of the TG is, that isn't the question here.


 Because you know that the person has a penis. Straight guys don't have sex with a penis. I don't know why so many gay guys want every straight guy to like gay sex. It just doesn't work that way.


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## theseventhkey

nubly said:


> Because you know that the person has a penis. Straight guys don't have sex with a penis. I don't know why so many gay guys want every straight guy to like gay sex. It just doesn't work that way.


I always thought this was strange. It's seems that gay men, lesbian, and bi-sexuals want everybody to be gay, lesbian, and bi-sexual. if that's makes any sense. The want the whole world to be a homosexual. Their favorite quote is "Everybody has a little gay in them, people who say they don't, are lying" B.S


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## renegade disaster

I find it funny when straight men are really attracted to trans women not realising they are trans and then when they find out they aren't "real" women and they have a package they are repulsed. just go with what you are attracted to,there was a reason why you were attracted in the first place so roll with it instead of getting your fears of feeling gay involved. i'm sure she could give you a blow job or something so you don't have to worry about the weiner.


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## nubly

galaxy1 said:


> I find it funny when straight men are really attracted to trans women not realising they are trans and then when they find out they aren't "real" women and they have a package they are repulsed. just go with what you are attracted to,there was a reason why you were attracted in the first place so roll with it instead of getting your fears of feeling gay involved. i'm sure she could give you a blow job or something so you don't have to worry about the weiner.


lol you missed your own point. Straight guys aren't into penis.


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## renegade disaster

nubly said:


> lol you missed your own point. Straight guys aren't into penis.


when I say go with what you are attracted to I mean the person. not the gender,and when I say there was a reason you were attracted to them I mean the sexual attraction a person feels towards another specific person,obviously they felt some sort of sexual chemistry on their side. if you feel attraction to a person regardless of their gender then you should just go with it.
hope that makes sense, been a long day and i'm a little blazed lol.


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## nubly

galaxy1 said:


> when I say go with what you are attracted to I mean the person. not the gender,and when I say there was a reason you were attracted to them I mean the sexual attraction a person feels towards another specific person,obviously they felt some sort of sexual chemistry on their side. if you feel attraction to a person regardless of their gender then you should just go with it.
> hope that makes sense, been a long day and i'm a little blazed lol.


Doesn't work like that. If you find someone that turns you off on a person then your desire goes away. For instance, a guy will be attracted to a beautiful woman. But if she has rotted teeth, the guy will likely be turned off. Now if you come across a chick with a penis and you still want to bang him, then you're bi.


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## renegade disaster

I still say they could ignore the wang if it was covered up and get a blow job lol. but I suppose thats fair enough if they can't get the idea out of their head it isn't a woman or if they are stuck with the image of a dong once the realisation has hit. :lol


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## SilentWitness

Kim Petras ( German singer) - born male and now post op transsexual


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## thewall

In between gay and straight, I suppose. Sexuality is fluid anyway, not sure why labels are so important.


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## quest4

Some interesting opinions, but since I AM a post op ts..men attracted to ts are straight. I haven't had any man consider me anything other than a woman. I'm considered a "hetro women" btw...i was never "GAY". I've had sex with "straight" men and they never had a clue. Most think they are great in bed, since I'm multi orgasmic (most women would hate me for that comment...lol)...I am truly a woman, i do have the xxy chromo. I am more female than male....and I do have a female brain.


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## enzo

I think this thread helped me accept and now affirm an idea that's been floating around my head for some time now; human sexuality is inherently capable of flexibility and is dependent on social interactions, emotional states, sexual experiences, etc. The labels we apply to ourselves are only appropriate at particular stages in life, and as evident in this thread, are not universal.

Hope that doesn't offend anyone. Would like input.


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## BeyondOsiris

It depends. If the man doesn't know yet that the person is actually a man, then I'd say straight. But if they already know that it's actually a man and they still feel that way, then I'd say gay.


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## Astraia

Theologic said:


> I don't know much on the topic, but do sex changes actually give you full functionality? Like can a TG woman have babies? If not unfortunately I'd have to say they are still technically a man...just a women at heart and in some ways in body.


I think that is a very strange thing to say, because a woman that happens to be infertile isn't any less a woman, is she? Or a woman that had a hysterectomy? Would you still consider her a woman?


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## nubly

Astraia said:


> I think that is a very strange thing to say, because a woman that happens to be infertile isn't any less a woman, is she? Or a woman that had a hysterectomy? Would you still consider her a woman?


It is more than that. Women have a different skeletal sctructure and muscle mass.Women have different body odor than males. If the remains of a male to female transgendered where found, they would say the remains belonged to a male. You can pretend to be the opposite gender if you want but you can't change your biology.


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## joker1to3

It's all about if you are attracted to masculinity or femininity or both. 
You can be gay, straight, or bisexual in your attraction. People that don't get that don't get sexual attraction and that's what sexuality is, it's not the chromosomal technicality.

Anyways liking transsexuality can be in fact straight or "extended straight" as it is defined. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=extended+straight&defid=8032730


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## MobiusX

I prefer real girls


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## cocooned

A dude dressed up as a girl is still a dude. Gay.


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## To22

I think it's nearly impossible for me to know whether or not another person is gay. The mind is complicated and sex is integral to life. On one hand, perhaps a person's attraction is more-so physical/unconscious than emotional/psychological, in which case, a man being attracted to a transgender would be homosexual on a purely physical level assuming the transgender person has the body of a man and not something a bit more complicated (which would mean said man is also attracted to other men on a purely physical level).

What's more complicated is whether or not the man is attracted for purely psychological reasons and whether or not said attraction stems from what one considers man identity. What series of processes induce this transgender attraction? Is this man convinced she's truly a woman? Does this man identify her as a man with feminine behavior, demeanor, etc?

Ultimately, what I'm saying is that on a purely conscious level, what makes a man gay is whether or not he accepts, views, embraces his source of attraction as a man.



Astraia said:


> I think that is a very strange thing to say, because a woman that happens to be infertile isn't any less a woman, is she? Or a woman that had a hysterectomy? Would you still consider her a woman?


Proceeds to replying to a banned person:
I agree, what was said was phrased poorly. On the surface, sure, what was said might suggest that being fertile...
Really, the point was to question whether or not sex change procedures "actually" change your sex. Of course, an infertile woman is still a woman, likewise a man. 
We must establish a proper definition for sex, otherwise we're running in circles, though. My personal definition of a man is simply a person with one sexual organ, being a penis, whether or not it's fertile being irrelevant. In my case, truly changing sex is a matter of fully, legitimately switching sexual organs. What qualifies as legitimate? I'm not entirely sure.

My current take on sex/gender is admittedly basic, but I'm open to evolving that take. As it stands, I don't define men nor women by how they think or behave, though I believe that some people truly think like the opposite gender, perhaps even possessing inappropriate brains. However, I believe that not every transgender person is of that circumstance, rather their identity is more of a psychological conflict. Granted, these are largely baseless pieces of projections. Regardless, these beliefs lead me to my earlier points (see above reply).


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## nubly

Bi. At the end of the day, you're having sex with male genitalia.


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## supergal197

I wouldn't say they're exclusively straight but they aren't gay that's for sure. Gay men aren't attracted to women even if they have male genitalia. If a guy purposely seeks out preop trans women I would say he's bisexual, but I also think a straight man can be attracted to one and not be bisexual.


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## Ceejay1960

*Straight*

Some transgendered ladies are unbelievably gorgeous.I am attracted to gorgeous women, and some of my best experiences have been with pre-op transgendered girls. label me how you may, but I have zero attraction to men.


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## visualkeirockstar

That's gay. I feel gross out if I find out a hot chick was a guy.


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## WillYouStopDave

I kind of like them but it's one of those things where I mostly just like the androgyny. When I actually see the penis, that kills it for me.

I have a different issue. I'm a bi guy who has a thing for androgynous lesbians (and female dominated androgyny in general) (Or maybe there's a different word for that?).


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## Gannnooop

Wow, lots of ignoramuses in this thread. Let's clear a few things up shall we?

Transgendered can be anyone who identify as the opposite gender. They can be cross-dressers, transvestites or simply people who believe they are the wrong gender.

Transsexual people are people who have begun the transition to the other gender.

I'm assuming these are the women we're talking about and not just "dudes dressed up as girls" right?

Curiously nubly has argued in this thread for three years straight that it's "gay" to have sexual intercourse or feel attracted to a pre-op or post op transgendered woman, perhaps because of his own insecurities here? Either way he's wrong.

Those attracted to transgendered women aren't normally attracted to them because of the male genitalia (attraction to that on a transgendered woman in itself being a fetish as some neuroscientists have explained, look up "Neuroscientists explain why straight men like trans women") those attracted to transgendered women are normally attracted to them because of their female characteristics and therefore their attraction is a heterosexual attraction. These people are straight.

*You can only be gay if you're attracted to men. If not then you're not gay.*

*Bisexual is being attracted to men and women. If you're not attracted to men then you're not bisexual.*

*Trans-women are not men so being attracted to trans-women and genetic women means you're straight.*

Having or receiving anal sex from a transgendered woman is still not gay. Men can enjoy anal simulation even with a genetic female with a strap-on.

The argument that having sexual intercourse of any type with a pre-op makes you gay or bi is ridiculous. By this logic, having sex with a female to male transgendered who still has a vagina is perfectly heterosexual even if they look like Chuck Norris. Surely the attraction then is what defines sexual orientation and not the sex?

Disagree with me? Look for images of some nude male to female transgendered men who still have vaginas. If you feel no attraction towards them, then you, by your own admission are actually gay for not feeling attracted to what you would still define as women by your own argument.

So you see, genitalia do not define these trans-people rather their behavior and appearance does. Straight people are attracted to the female form and some of us straight people are open minded enough to embrace even pre-op transgendered women.

What I and many others with this attraction here will tell you is this: we're not attracted to men, we're not attracted to seeing a penis (seeing a penis by itself is in fact a turn off for many of us) we're attracted to the female form. This means we're also attracted to genetic females too but also include trans-women of any type.

Gay people themselves will tell you that they aren't attracted to pre-op transgendered women because they see them as women (which they are). Additionally, Buck Angel, a female to male transgendered porn-star who kept his vagina, is very popular in the gay community. Can you guess why? Because he looks, acts and talks like a man because he is a man regardless of his genitalia.

There's more to gender than genitalia. Try hormones and the brain. The science agrees but clearly some people here are still anti-science.

Someone a few pages back said "gay people are trying to make out that everyone is either gay or bi and really want to label them" but I only see bigoted people here doing that, especially when they think they can generalize an entire group as "gay" because they can't understand some people's attraction to transgendered women.

As you can probably tell, I'm a big supporter for LGBT rights so being gay or bi wouldn't bother me but here's the thing: I'm not attracted to men and despite your anti-scientific claims that "trans-women are still men" trans-women aren't men even if they keep their genitalia. Their hormones have changed them. While some men who are attracted to them might be bi, curious or have a fetish, others are straight if they don't have an attraction in a male or male characteristics.

If you think you're helping LGBT rights by labeling people with an attraction to transgendered women as "gay" then think again. Many trans-women themselves will also tell you're wrong and in fact, your ignorant statements are preventing the transsexual community from progressing.

Still think men with an attraction to trans-women are gay? Look up an image of Buck Angel and then come back here.

Buck Angel has a vagina, now by the logic above, since he has a vagina, he is in fact female. So not feeling any attraction towards him...or wait should I say her? Okay her. So not feeling any attraction towards her and refusing to fantasize about having sex with her means you're gay by some of the arguments in this thread.

Or again, perhaps realize orientation is determined by what you're attracted to. Now if nubly or cocooned started jacking off to Buck Angel porn, arguing that they're straight because he has a vagina then good for them but it would mean they are either gay or bi. Buck Angel is a gay porn star and those attracted to him aren't attracted to him because he has a vagina but because of his male characteristics.

So in conclusion, those attracted to transgendered pre-op women can range from anything to straight, asexual with romantic attraction, pansexual or bisexual but not gay.


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## JohnDoe26

Freaky/Kinky


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## Gannnooop

Regardless of whether you still ignorantly see trans-women as "men" they don't see themselves as such and nor do we. "But biology!" Attraction doesn't concern itself with biology and cells. We don't see such things, we're attracted to the appearance of a person and their personality not a bunch of DNA we'd never see unless looking under a microscope.

So again, I'd say straight men who have sexual feelings or relations with transsexual women are indeed straight and surely it's up to a person to decide his orientation? Unless a person is hiding in a closet and is actually gay (and most of us who admit attraction to transsexual women are open about that attraction) then a person has no reason to lie about his orientation. 

If you like transsexual women or if you have sex with one, if you define yourself as straight because you're attracted to them as women then you are straight. If you like transsexual women and men then you're bisexual. Gay men only like men not trans-women.

I think a lot of what we have in this thread is insecurity from people who probably would have sexual relations with a transsexual women but are a little afraid with experimenting.

Still I suppose others will come to disagree with this reply and continue throwing their inaccurate labels and incredibly I noticed bisexuality is one again swept under the rug because apparently that doesn't exist to some. You can only be straight or gay to some ignorant people which proves how these people throwing out generalizes and labels only see the world in black and white.

Either way, whether you guys like it or not and the science agrees: trans-women are women. No their chromosomes aren't changed but their hormones are. Gender is not defined entirely but chromosomes but by hormones too which is why hormone replacement therapy (especially if taken at an early age) can change a gender into looking exactly like the other.

Perhaps the eastern countries have got something right in labeling trans-gendered people as a third gender recognizing that their brain is actually a female brain (and again the science agrees on this). The west still seems to be vastly ignorant on the topic if transsexualism unfortunately.


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## McFly

It depends entirely on the sexual feelings and what he wants to do in bed. It would range from bisexual to straight. 

I'd receive oral from a trans woman if she was convincing enough, because oral isn't a big deal, just a few steps up from a hug or a handshake. And I'm not intimidated that they have a penis or had one at some period.
But that's interesting that some people would say that I'm gay, even though I'm 100% sexually attracted to women.


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## Kevin001

McFly said:


> It depends entirely on the sexual feelings and what he wants to do in bed. It would range from bisexual to straight.
> 
> I'd receive oral from a trans woman if she was convincing enough, because oral isn't a big deal, just a few steps up from a hug or a handshake. And I'm not that intimidated that they have a penis or had one at some period.
> But that's interesting that some people would say that I'm gay, even though I'm 100% sexually attracted to women and not men.


This ^^


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## harrison

The men are attracted to the female characteristics of the lady-boy. (as they are called in Thailand)

They're still straight - what's so hard to understand here?


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## SmartCar

I can understand the problem, & once again an _Old thread_ ..anyways, I think it's an issue for some especially when *Post-op* a lot of the *Post-op's* have penises, & for many straight men; that's an issue ..if it get's to a sexual place, that is.


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## regimes

Gannnooop said:


> *You can only be gay if you're attracted to men. If not then you're not gay.*
> 
> *Bisexual is being attracted to men and women. If you're not attracted to men then you're not bisexual.*
> 
> *Trans-women are not men so being attracted to trans-women and genetic women means you're straight.*


there's actually more genders than just man and woman so you can be bi even if you aren't attracted to men or women.

you're right about the other stuff tho.


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## DarrellLicht

A transwoman presents herself as such with one thinking she pulls it off well: Not gay.

Buggering away with one: Definitely questionable..


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## Milco

regimes said:


> there's actually more genders than just man and woman so you can be bi even if you aren't attracted to men or women.


Bisexual means being attracted to both men and women - not just any two gender identities.
Sexuality also typically refers to the sex of a person - or both gender and sex if understood to be the same - but not solely the gender identity.


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## regimes

Milco said:


> Bisexual means being attracted to both men and women - not just any two gender identities.
> Sexuality also typically refers to the sex of a person - or both gender and sex if understood to be the same - but not solely the gender identity.


no, it's not. it has not so recently expanded to mean "two or more genders." are you bisexual? if not, you should leave defining bisexuality to actual bisexual people.

edit: here, have some education.


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## Milco

regimes said:


> no, it's not. it has not so recently expanded to mean "two or more genders." are you bisexual? if not, you should leave defining bisexuality to actual bisexual people.


If people disagree on what it means, wouldn't that mean people would disagree on who can define what it means? That doesn't seem useful.
Under those definitions, who isn't bisexual, since there's a myriad of genders that are very much alike?


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## regimes

Milco said:


> If people disagree on what it means, wouldn't that mean people would disagree on who can define what it means? That doesn't seem useful.
> Under those definitions, who isn't bisexual, since there's a myriad of genders that are very much alike?


the bisexual community has updated its definition and has been using it for quite some time now. the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet.

and you're not bisexual if you're only attracted to same or opposite genders. if you're attracted to more than one, you can identify as bisexual. if you're attracted to others irregardless of their gender identity, you can identify as pan.

BUT the safest thing to do is let lgbtqia+ people define their own identities.


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## Twelve Keyz

regimes said:


> the bisexual community has updated its definition and has been using it for quite some time now. the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet.
> 
> and you're not bisexual if you're only attracted to same or opposite genders. if you're attracted to more than one, you can identify as bisexual. if you're attracted to others irregardless of their gender identity, you can identify as pan.
> 
> BUT the safest thing to do is let lgbtqia+ people define their own identities.


that doesn't make any sense. The prefix "bi" refers to two. This gender identity stuff is getting out of hand... to the point where it's becoming pretty much meaningless. Like damn, how many more letters are they gonna add?

Don't get me wrong, I think people should do whatever they want (with some exceptions of course). It's really no one else's business who a person is attracted to. But I think this focus on identity is pointless. The truth is the rest of the world doesn't care.


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## Milco

regimes said:


> and you're not bisexual if you're only attracted to same or opposite genders. if you're attracted to more than one, you can identify as bisexual. if you're attracted to others irregardless of their gender identity, you can identify as pan.


Most people will be attracted to more than one simply because there are so many ideas of gender definitions.
People will experience physical attraction based on the physical sex and not gender identity, so almost everybody will be bisexual using that definition.



regimes said:


> BUT the safest thing to do is let lgbtqia+ people define their own identities.


I think people should be respectful, but I don't think there's a need to not say anything if you aren't lgbt.
Demisexual/demiromantic for example isn't really a unique thing and there are other cases where these terms get washy and don't really describe anything much.


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## McFly

Twelve Keyz said:


> that doesn't make any sense. The prefix "bi" refers to two. This gender identity stuff is getting out of hand... to the point where it's becoming pretty much meaningless. Like damn, how many more letters are they gonna add?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think people should do whatever they want (with some exceptions of course). It's really no one else's business who a person is attracted to. But I think this focus on identity is pointless. *The truth is the rest of the world doesn't care.*


All of this, and especially the last line


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## regimes

Twelve Keyz said:


> that doesn't make any sense. The prefix "bi" refers to two. This gender identity stuff is getting out of hand... to the point where it's becoming pretty much meaningless. Like damn, how many more letters are they gonna add?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think people should do whatever they want (with some exceptions of course). It's really no one else's business who a person is attracted to. But I think this focus on identity is pointless. The truth is the rest of the world doesn't care.


well a good fraction of the world cares. it's not meaningless just because you think it is.

also language is arbitrary and can change meaning, like with the word "cool." it originally means low in temperature, but thanks to slang and widespread use it can now also mean "awesome."



Milco said:


> Most people will be attracted to more than one simply because there are so many ideas of gender definitions.
> People will experience physical attraction based on the physical sex and not gender identity, so almost everybody will be bisexual using that definition.
> 
> I think people should be respectful, but I don't think there's a need to not say anything if you aren't lgbt.
> Demisexual/demiromantic for example isn't really a unique thing and there are other cases where these terms get washy and don't really describe anything much.


people can experience attraction based on gender identity, too.
if you can't understand these terms then maybe it's best to go look up information about them instead of arguing that they don't exist/are useless? because they have a purpose for plenty of people already, whether you're aware of it or not.


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## JustThisGuy

I'm sure it's already been said, but it depends on the person. I've seen a lot of users on porn tube sites who identify as straight but have "tranny" vids in their favorites. /shrug

People are different. But it also doesn't dictate sexuality.

I knew a gay girl in college who'd sleep with guys because she could separate sex and romance. Gay, straight and bi people called her confused or bi, but I got what she meant. She explained it better, too. Mentality, action and convictions. Our identities, sexual or no, are complex.


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## Wings of Amnesty

I don't even bother labeling myself, it's stupid to try to test the limits of artificial labels.


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## RestlessNative

I'm glad straight has the most votes. Makes my heart happy. But I'd rather not get into this discussion any further. That is all.


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## Wizard Lizard

It's not gay unless the balls touch.


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## Cuban FL Cracker

Gay because the transexual's chromosomes still say that the person is their original sex.


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## WillYouStopDave

Don't care


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## chinaski

i don't know. i think of myself a pretty straight dude, but, call me whatever you want, i think i'd **** a cute post-op trans chick. i consider them women.

i'm also kinda curious what trans vag feels like.


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## nubly

Transgendered chicks are still dudes so a hetero dude doing a trans chick would make him bi.


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## truant

The categories are inadequate for explaining their attraction. It's like asking if orange is red or yellow.

I couldn't give a **** how they identify.


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## bad baby

hm so straight guys, say if you were physically attracted to a girl and then later you found out that she's transgender, you would suddenly stop finding her attractive? ...sounds like the effect of some kind of later conditioning rather than your natural attraction tbh. i mean i'm not into shaming ppl for being 'transphobic' or anything, i'm genuinely intrigued by the underlying thought processes. it just seems to me like your natural instinct is unable to differentiate between a biological female and a mtf trans who presents in an ultra-feminine way, and it's only with the input of some conscious piece of knowledge that you're able to disengage your attraction, so to speak. so that doesn't really support the whole notion that trans ppl have a different body mass/composition and scent and "sexual build" as indicated by the OP (whatever that even means) that turns straight guys off. those things can be and often are altered by the hormones and medical procedures that many undergo anyway.

add to that the fact that even biological females have varying levels of hormones/androgens that can confer certain masculine physical and personality attributes. for example, would you say that straight guys who are attracted to women with strong jawlines and boyish figures are somehow more gay than the ones who like curvier women with softer features?


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## BenReilly

Kinsey's research established its a spectrum of sexuality. Besides I think if a woman who might have once been a man floats a guys boat it is probably not a reflection on the guy being gay in some way. Actually it could be part of it given the less than impressive record on making men into natural looking women and vice versa, but it seems to me more likely that most men would just be shocked to be told someone was once a man.

That said it could be for either reason, and it still wouldn't make one defacto totally gay or straight, no-one is. And no that doesn't mean I'm saying anyone is gay.


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## feels

I dunno. I've never been comfortable identifying as something specific because it didn't seem to fit or even matter really? My boyfriend and I both are attracted to all kinds of people and I've never seen the point in trying to define it or analyze it I guess???


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## Gojira

Post Op - straight. For me personally, it would depend a lot on how feminine they were. Like, they would have to be indistinguishable from a born woman.
(and ofc, I'm no expert, but I'd imagine there are going to be some practical albeit subtle differences that even surgery can't alter :doh).

Pre op - gay.

I guess for the latter, if you absolutely wanted nothing to do with the penis, but we're attracted to her personality and feminine attributes, and awaited in trepid anticipation for the post op phase, then straight.

But if you are attracted to transsexuals with penises because they look like women that have penises instead of vaginas, then yeah, gay.


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## Gojira

regimes said:


> there's actually more genders than just man and woman


Highly debatable opinion, and far from a concrete fact.

Saying gender is a human construct is like saying penises and vaginas are simply a human construct. Doesn't make any sense.

I'm all for inclusiveness, but that's just distorting reality to justify inclusion, instead of just accepting people no matter what.


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## Joe

Gojira said:


> Highly debatable opinion, and far from a concrete fact.
> 
> Saying gender is a human construct is like saying penises and vaginas are simply a human construct. Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I'm all for inclusiveness, but that's just distorting reality to justify inclusion, instead of just accepting people no matter what.


Actually there are genetically more, with different chromosome set ups. I think one of them is kleinfelters syndrome and I can't remember the other.

Also are sex and gender the same? Or is gender an identity and sex the physical parts that make you (I really can't remember). Look at two spirit for an example of more identities, I think that was a native American thing.

As for me, I guess if you identify as a girl then it's simpler to call you a girl. I don't know any trans though so I could be different in real life.


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## TreeOfWolf

If it's straight to fall for someone who looks female but was born male... because that's who they feel inside... then I wish we could just fall for the person and figure it out in the bedroom later. I think it's called pansexual.

I'm asexual so hetero and gays all look like the same ****ers to me.


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## Persephone The Dread

Another old bumped thread huh. Still I have some jimmies to rustle I suppose.

I don't believe the stereotype of straight guy attracted to very feminine posthormones transwoman who is preop (that's a bit of an awkward sentence,) would be remotely gay in most cases, based on what I've heard about heterosexual male sexuality. Guys get more turned on when they see dicks around women. Essentially they mentally process the transwoman as a woman and the genitalia as being competition. This can result in a fetish sometimes, and is still a result of heterosexual mechanisms in the brain. In other cases they don't care because they find enough traits that work with their heterosexual attractions, and in other cases they may be bi or have a more complex sexuality.

Generally speaking defining things as gay or straight in such a black and white way makes little sense. Really depends on what the individual finds attractive and why. If I'm attracted to long hair on men because it looks feminine wtf does that mean? It doesn't sound like a dynamic of androsexual (straight or gay,) attraction. It probably isn't and I honestly just don't care. People are individuals you know.

Ironically 100% or close to gay guys are probably the group least likely to date a transwoman.


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## Karsten

Persephone The Dread said:


> Generally speaking defining things as gay or straight in such a black and white way makes little sense. Really depends on what the individual finds attractive and why.


This.


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