# Parnate trial begins



## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Tranylcypromine finally arrived today and I took my first pill half an hour ago. Not sure what to expect of course, but I hope it treats me well.

/depressed77


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Tranylcypromine finally arrived today and I took my first pill half an hour ago. Not sure what to expect of course, but I hope it treats me well.
> 
> /depressed77


you can celebrate by changing your signature


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sweet congrats. Give it time, you probably will start noticing it at the therapeutic range at 30mg. I'd go to that range quick. I only spent about 4 days on 10mg and another 5 days on 20mg.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Jawi96 said:


> you can celebrate by changing your signature


LMAO. I'm sorry, but that last sentence actually had me laughing aloud. You're hilarious.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Sweet congrats. Give it time, you probably will start noticing it at the therapeutic range at 30mg. I'd go to that range quick. I only spent about 4 days on 10mg and another 5 days on 20mg.


Thanks. I will take 20mg/day now and see how I respond to it, I'm gonna re-read your parnate experience thread.

/depressed77


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> LMAO. I'm sorry, but that last sentence actually had me laughing aloud. You're hilarious.
> 
> /depressed77


Oh, quiet, you..


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Am I the only one around here who has decided to carry nifedipine with me? I also have this fancy medical bracelet.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Am I the only one around here who has decided to carry nifedipine with me? I also have this fancy medical bracelet.
> 
> /depressed77


Nah I read even oral doses can cause issues with heart. If you go to ER they will most likely make you wait it out instead of giving you something, depending on how horrible it is i guess. But seriously what the hell do you plan on eating to get such a bad reaction? A gallon of marmite with soy sauce? hah

Keep in mind even before people knew about the diet restrictions back when MAOis were popular there were barely any reports. Now that you know the problem areas i don't see how you can F up that easily.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Nah I read even oral doses can cause issues with heart. If you go to ER they will most likely make you wait it out instead of giving you something, depending on how horrible it is i guess. But seriously what the hell do you plan on eating to get such a bad reaction? A gallon of marmite with soy sauce? hah
> 
> Keep in mind even before people knew about the diet restrictions back when MAOis were popular there were barely any reports. Now that you know the problem areas i don't see how you can F up that easily.


It is recommended here to do so, so I guess that's why, not that my doc has mentioned it, he has no experience of MAOIs, but from reading about them here (nordic region). It's more of a psychologial thing I guess. Hopefully/probably I will never need it, I live pretty close to the ER too.

But, say you were on a long flight, wouldn't it feel better to have it in case it happened? People with heart conditions or hypertension take up 60mg daily of the extended release form, I don't see how 10mg would be _that_ dangerous, especially if your BP is already over 200 and you are fit otherwise.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> It is recommended here to do so, so I guess that's why, not that my doc has mentioned it, he has no experience of MAOIs, but from reading about them here (nordic region). It's more of a psychologial thing I guess. Hopefully/probably I will never need it, I live pretty close to the ER too.
> 
> But, say you were on a long flight, wouldn't it feel better to have it in case it happened? People with heart conditions or hypertension take up 60mg daily of the extended release form, I don't see how 10mg would be _that_ dangerous, especially if your BP is already over 200 and you are fit otherwise.
> 
> /depressed77


Well I don't expect to eat anything bad on a long flight since i'll be careful. Not to mention their portions are tiny. But yah if it makes you feel better psychologically carry it around.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

8th day on 20mg tranylcypromine. I actually got some work done today. Although I woke up late, I felt I had energy and interest to do something. My buddy has bought an apartment and we have started to renovating the bathroom and I said I'm happy to help if I have some energy. Not a full work day of course, but I have assigned myself the task to tear up the flooring tiles and I actually enjoyed doing it. It was perhaps two hours in total and we will continue tomorrow. That is, if I have a good day, but it feels promising.

/depressed77


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

congrats and I hope its it works for you as well as it has for so many others!:yes


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

bradfairway said:


> congrats and I hope its it works for you as well as it has for so many others!:yes


Thank you. 

/depressed77


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

According to a study done by Gillman, only 1-2% respond to 20mg Tranylcypromine.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> According to a study done by Gillman, only 1-2% respond to 20mg Tranylcypromine.


Yep that's why the therapeutic start dose is 30mg. Typically this gives a high response rate because the percentage of MAO inhibited is high enough. Rarely do you need to go above 30mg.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> According to a study done by Gillman, only 1-2% respond to 20mg Tranylcypromine.


according to common practice, one starts low and goes slow.

depressed77, best of luck!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> according to common practice, one starts low and goes slow.
> 
> depressed77, best of luck!


Yep I started at 10mg as you need to know how you will react to any medicine. Then after 5 days went to 20mg and after another 5 days to 30mg.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

ChopSuey said:


> According to a study done by Gillman, only 1-2% respond to 20mg Tranylcypromine.


Interesting. Maybe those numbers increase (or decrease) a bit with other medications onboard, Seroquel in my case.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

basuraeuropea said:


> according to common practice, one starts low and goes slow.
> 
> depressed77, best of luck!


Thank you, basuraeuropea!

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yep I started at 10mg as you need to know how you will react to any medicine. Then after 5 days went to 20mg and after another 5 days to 30mg.


Depending on how this develops, I may increase to 30mg on Monday.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Depending on how this develops, I may increase to 30mg on Monday.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah once at 30mg give it at least 30 days before raising dose again. This is the dose where you start to rely on MAOI for its actions. Keep in mind a lot of the initial benefits are more than likely its stimulant effects where it releases dopamin/norepinephrine, the MAOI effects are the real party. And it's nice once you have the full MAOI effect kick in plus you're getting the stimulant effect too.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah once at 30mg give it at least 30 days before raising dose again. This is the dose where you start to rely on MAOI for its actions. Keep in mind a lot of the initial benefits are more than likely its stimulant effects where it releases dopamin/norepinephrine, the MAOI effects are the real party. And it's nice once you have the full MAOI effect kick in plus you're getting the stimulant effect too.


Sounds like a plan. Yeah, I can feel the stimulant effect from each dosing. A nice calm feeling. Thanks.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Sounds like a plan. Yeah, I can feel the stimulant effect from each dosing. A nice calm feeling. Thanks.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah that's why I take my dose all at once in the morning. It feels freaking great! Although if I ever hit 40mg I may divide 2x20mg.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah that's why I take my dose all at once in the morning. It feels freaking great! Although if I ever hit 40mg I may divide 2x20mg.


Do you experience any crash?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Do you experience any crash?
> 
> /depressed77


I did at the beginning get pretty tired after a few hours but nowadays it is a slow come down and I'm barely noticing it. I think it's because the MAOI is kicking in. I had some tired days like the day before but it was overall tired even after taking Parnate. My guess is it was either a transient thing or overtraining from jogging too much. But yah if you want to get stuff done like jogging or exercise try 30mg in the morning and drink some coffee with it. Holy motha! haha. I'm actually going to vacuum after finishing my coffee. I haven't vacuumed in ages, and i'm allergic to dust! haha.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I did at the beginning get pretty tired after a few hours but nowadays it is a slow come down and I'm barely noticing it. I think it's because the MAOI is kicking in. I had some tired days like the day before but it was overall tired even after taking Parnate. My guess is it was either a transient thing or overtraining from jogging too much. But yah if you want to get stuff done like jogging or exercise try 30mg in the morning and drink some coffee with it. Holy motha! haha. I'm actually going to vacuum after finishing my coffee. I haven't vacuumed in ages, and i'm allergic to dust! haha.


It's really early to tell. I do have interest in doing things and meeting friends, that's something new and it's not a placebo effect. My energy is still poor although I have helped my friend for a couple of hours, showered and went to the grocery store. But right now, I'm pretty tired and it's 3pm here. It may have something todo with waking up early this morning, I got up from my bed 7:30am which is the earliest in ages.
A friend asked me if I want to join him for some hunting later in the evening, we'll see, could use a nap right now.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> It's really early to tell. I do have interest in doing things and meeting friends, that's something new and it's not a placebo effect. My energy is still poor although I have helped my friend for a couple of hours, showered and went to the grocery store. But right now, I'm pretty tired and it's 3pm here. It may have something todo with waking up early this morning, I got up from my bed 7:30am which is the earliest in ages.
> A friend asked me if I want to join him for some hunting later in the evening, we'll see, could use a nap right now.
> 
> /depressed77


Nice, did you go hunting?

You seem to be responding really well and so early in treatment! I'd love to have the interest in doing things and meeting people. I don't doubt it will work just gotta give it time and possible dosage adjustment.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Nice, did you go hunting?
> 
> You seem to be responding really well and so early in treatment! I'd love to have the interest in doing things and meeting people. I don't doubt it will work just gotta give it time and possible dosage adjustment.


It's likely the stimulating effect we were talking about, I think I can see a pattern where the effect wears off after a few hours, although the interest is there, the energy dissappear. He never called me and I didn't bother to call him, because I was too tired. Maybe tonight if I'm more alert. Yeah, it will work for you, I'm sure :yes

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Drop in blood pressure last night again. Now I'm pretty much certain that Seroquel is the culprit. I took my pill before my evening meal and I felt it was absorbed pretty quickly because I became drowsy to the point where I had to go to bed. I had this strange feeling again, a little anxious so I checked my BP and it was 76/53, pulse 108.
Took some clonazepam, did some pullups and went to bed, after an hour or so I felt my pulse had slowed down and I fell asleep shortly after that. I'm going to reduce my dosage to 100-150mg and perhaps eventually quit it. Don't know if it actually does anything good, it wasn't really that effective as an anxiolytic during my 'extended' washout.

I immediately took my BP when I woke up and it was 85/57, pulse 82.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Drop in blood pressure last night again. Now I'm pretty much certain that Seroquel is the culprit. I took my pill before my evening meal and I felt it was absorbed pretty quickly because I became drowsy to the point where I had to go to bed. I had this strange feeling again, a little anxious so I checked my BP and it was 76/53, pulse 108.
> Took some clonazepam, did some pullups and went to bed, after an hour or so I felt my pulse had slowed down and I fell asleep shortly after that. I'm going to reduce my dosage to 100-150mg and perhaps eventually quit it. Don't know if it actually does anything good, it wasn't really that effective as an anxiolytic during my 'extended' washout.
> 
> I immediately took my BP when I woke up and it was 85/57, pulse 82.
> ...


Yah BP in the mornings is supposed to be higher than your normal usually. I think 140-160 is normal to get you to wake up. At least says so in this chart, but this could be unique to the person who made it who knows lol










I never check in the morning though, too lazy.

I slept like a rock yesterday, took zopiclone, melatonin and benadryl. Didn't wake up at my usual 4am.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

@kehcorpz It's not dangerously low, but it is annoying, esp. with a rapid pulse, it's difficult to sleep. I'm going to try with 100mg of Seroquel and see how it works, I'm going to need something to sleep on anyway.

Day [email protected]

Best day so far although it's only 4pm, I have helped a friend strip his bathroom down to bare wood and concrete and I had tons of energy, I was working like crazy. It feels good although a little anxiety is lurking in the background. Took my second pill now and I hope I will some energy during the rest of the day.
Pondering if I should quit Seroquel altogether, but I'm a little reluctant, it could be a synergy between it and tranylcypromine that gives me energy and interest. But I guess I could always start it again.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> @kehcorpz It's not dangerously low, but it is annoying, esp. with a rapid pulse, it's difficult to sleep. I'm going to try with 100mg of Seroquel and see how it works, I'm going to need something to sleep on anyway.
> 
> Day [email protected]
> 
> ...


Are you taking Seroquel for sleep? If so try some over the counter alternatives like benadryl. It's not as powerful as an antihistamine but for some it works great. Only prescription sleep aid I'll take in the antihistamine world is mirtazapine heh.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Are you taking Seroquel for sleep? If so try some over the counter alternatives like benadryl. It's not as powerful as an antihistamine but for some it works great. Only prescription sleep aid I'll take in the antihistamine world is mirtazapine heh.


I was taking it for anxiety, but I don't think it works so well for me, but more because it worked wonderfully with Lamictal for depression last summer and autumn, I relapsed early January this year. I normally do not respond to antihistamines, they don't make me sleepy, probably because of long usage of Remeron (13-14 years), I'm desensitized. So Seroquel normally doesn't make me sleepy, there have been two exceptions to this. When I took Concerta and now when I take tranylcypromine. Somehow, the stimulating effect of these two causes Seroquel to make me drowsy. But I guess I will have to start using the z-drugs again.

/depressed77


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

I immediately took my BP when I woke up and it was 85/57, pulse 82.

/depressed77[/QUOTE]

since i started nardil over 4 weeks ago, i've pretty much kept the same blood pressure! 130-35ish - 75-80ish

I wonder how it is possible it has not changed at all, interesting how parnate has made your blood pressure drop that so low after a few days.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

bradfairway said:


> since i started nardil over 4 weeks ago, i've pretty much kept the same blood pressure! 130-35ish - 75-80ish
> 
> I wonder how it is possible it has not changed at all, interesting how parnate has made your blood pressure drop that so low after a few days.


It's Seroquel, it has to be. I haven't really checked my BP often, but today I did it in the morning and once around noon and once around 5pm. The last two measurements were 122/68 and 123/71 respectively, so my BP is normal otherwise. I'm gonna take 100mg of Seroquel tonight and measure again in the morning to see if my theory is correct.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Took 100mg of Seroquel last night. No BP issues, not that I measured it but I felt my pulse was normal. When I woke up I took a measurement and it was a little higher now, 95/68. A couple of hours later it was 115/71. I will take 100mg tonight and then discontinue it, atleast that's the plan.

A little less interest and energy today, I hope this isn't related to the decrease in Seroquel dosage. Also have had some chills today. Zolpidem is virtually useless and has been so for a while, considering a switch to zopiclone.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

The good days of last week are gone. Now I have chills and nausea. Appointment with doc tomorrow, will likely increase to 30mg.

Would it be stupid to add 15 of mirtazapine to the mix? It could mitigate the nausea and perhaps the chills and also stimulate appetite.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> The good days of last week are gone. Now I have chills and nausea. Appointment with doc tomorrow, will likely increase to 30mg.
> 
> ...


I think the mirtazapine would be good but likely your doc/pharmacy would be against it. Even though research shows it's perfectly fine. I didn't quit my mirtazapine till the day i started parnate. Only quit because I knew I wouldn't get more prescribed. They were all bugging me if I've been off of it for 2 weeks and I was like "yahh... 2 weeks". I just didn't want to be the guy who breaks any of the rules so I can keep getting my parnate lol.

Try taking the parnate all at once in the morning with no food in your stomach. Maybe that makes the difference for me? Also make sure you're not eating something that may be high in tyramine as this too can cause the nausea feeling. Check your bp when you get the nausea to see if everything is ok.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I think the mirtazapine would be good but likely your doc/pharmacy would be against it. Even though research shows it's perfectly fine. I didn't quit my mirtazapine till the day i started parnate. Only quit because I knew I wouldn't get more prescribed. They were all bugging me if I've been off of it for 2 weeks and I was like "yahh... 2 weeks". I just didn't want to be the guy who breaks any of the rules so I can keep getting my parnate lol.
> 
> Try taking the parnate all at once in the morning with no food in your stomach. Maybe that makes the difference for me? Also make sure you're not eating something that may be high in tyramine as this too can cause the nausea feeling. Check your bp when you get the nausea to see if everything is ok.


I will talk to my doc about. Any ideas what causes the chills? My blood pressure is around 120/70, temp under tongue is 36.6C. 
I will take 20mg in the morning tomorrow. I can ride it out I guess if I know it will pass soon, or atleast get better, so I'm not so keen on another medication just yet.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I will talk to my doc about. Any ideas what causes the chills? My blood pressure is around 120/70, temp under tongue is 36.6C.
> I will take 20mg in the morning tomorrow. I can ride it out I guess if I know it will pass soon, or atleast get better, so I'm not so keen on another medication just yet.
> 
> /depressed77


Well, gilmour when he was on Nardil would blame the norepinephrine on chills. He said all NRI drugs did it to him too. What happens when you drink coffee?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Well, gilmour when he was on Nardil would blame the norepinephrine on chills. He said all NRI drugs did it to him too. What happens when you drink coffee?


I get a stronger pulse not much else, to be honest I haven't really thought about it. The chills and the nausea come and go and at the moment it's not so bad, there may be a pattern here but I haven't figured it out.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I get a stronger pulse not much else, to be honest I haven't really thought about it. The chills and the nausea come and go and at the moment it's not so bad, there may be a pattern here but I haven't figured it out.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah if they come and go it may be something you are doing. Even something you eat. Since food may take some time to digest you wouldn't even think about it being the culprit.

Either way hope it's a transient issue that goes away. Eventually when you inhibit enough MAO you may get to a point where your mind/body have to adjust.

Most Parnate side effects are transient and go away with time. I think the only one i've heard of people complaining about indefinitely is the insomnia. But once again they get around that by taking it all during the morning and maybe taking something to assist the sleep. I'm actually surprised I slept yesterday after cutting the zopiclone. I'll stay on the 1/4th for another week and then just stop all together hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah if they come and go it may be something you are doing. Even something you eat. Since food may take some time to digest you wouldn't even think about it being the culprit.
> 
> Either way hope it's a transient issue that goes away. Eventually when you inhibit enough MAO you may get to a point where your mind/body have to adjust.
> 
> Most Parnate side effects are transient and go away with time. I think the only one i've heard of people complaining about indefinitely is the insomnia. But once again they get around that by taking it all during the morning and maybe taking something to assist the sleep. I'm actually surprised I slept yesterday after cutting the zopiclone. I'll stay on the 1/4th for another week and then just stop all together hehe.


Yes, you may be right. I think it's a little harder now with the interest and energy gone, it's always easier if you can occupy yourself with something, get some distraction. I'm having difficulties falling asleep, but I sleep well for about seven hours when I finally do. A lot of this has to do with sleeping to noon, can't really expect to get sleep twelve hours later. Once I feel a little better I will force myself up at 8:00am.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Met my doc today, we had a nice chat. Took 30mg today, almost no chills today, a little nauseous but I think it's better. Went to get a cut to my ultra cute hairdresser, always makes my day.
I got up early, need to stay awake now, so maybe I will get some sleep at a more normal time.

Have had some rashes and itching, I believe this is because of the discontinuation of the strong antihistamines I have been taking for years, Seroquel, Remeron, TCAs.. 
Just a few rashes and they dissappear within an hour with some eczema cream.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Met my doc today, we had a nice chat. Took 30mg today, almost no chills today, a little nauseous but I think it's better. Went to get a cut to my ultra cute hairdresser, always makes my day.
> I got up early, need to stay awake now, so maybe I will get some sleep at a more normal time.
> 
> Have had some rashes and itching, I believe this is because of the discontinuation of the strong antihistamines I have been taking for years, Seroquel, Remeron, TCAs..
> ...


Sweet! I'm hoping to get 40mg this Sunday!

Did you slap your hairdresser with your penis and say "NO i didn't ask for bangs!"?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Sweet! I'm hoping to get 40mg this Sunday!
> 
> Did you slap your hairdresser with your penis and say "NO i didn't ask for bangs!"?


I think it's time for your second fap now..

I still have secret hopes with this one, if I'm really gentle, then it will only require a miracle.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I think it's time for your second fap now..
> 
> I still have secret hopes with this one, if I'm really gentle, then it will only require a miracle.
> 
> /depressed77


Nah haven't even done the first one yet! I'm still relaxing post jog hah.

Yah the problem is that hair dressers are always so nice and to everyone. Every time I've talked to one I was thinking "man she wants the bratwurst". So don't read into her friendliness too much. A man can fall in love with one just from getting those great head massages they give you while washing your hair hah.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Nah haven't even done the first one yet! I'm still relaxing post jog hah.
> 
> Yah the problem is that hair dressers are always so nice and to everyone. Every time I've talked to one I was thinking "man she wants the bratwurst". So don't read into her friendliness too much. A man can fall in love with one just from getting those great head massages they give you while washing your hair hah.


Unfortunately, you're right. Yeah, that's pretty much what happened when she washed my hair lol. Although she was very chatty, well well, I'm not in shape for dating anyway.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Unfortunately, you're right. Yeah, that's pretty much what happened when she washed my hair lol. Although she was very chatty, well well, I'm not in shape for dating anyway.
> 
> /depressed77


Neither am I man. I go on dating sites and browse girls but I won't be messaging them till I get my S together. Although I shouldn't be browsing as it gets my imagination going sometimes haha.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

I got up early, 8:00am, needed to see a doc about an eye irritation. Just came home from a bike ride, although it wasn't fun as it use to be, I got it done. Twenty minutes, I should really force myself to do this everyday. Now lunch.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

These pills are making me so sleepy, I'm going to take 20mg in the evening. I had to take several naps yesterday.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> These pills are making me so sleepy, I'm going to take 20mg in the evening. I had to take several naps yesterday.
> 
> /depressed77


That's after a few hours though no? You may be getting a "crash" but that should go away with time.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> That's after a few hours though no? You may be getting a "crash" but that should go away with time.


Yesterday I took 20mg in the morning and I think the tiredness came after noon sometime and it didn't go away. So I think it takes 4-6h before it sets in. So yes, it possible it's a crash although they don't activate me when I take them. Took 10mg 11am today and I feel a little tired now 4-5h later, going to take the remaining 20mg in the evening ad see how it works out, maybe spread them out a couple of hours.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yesterday I took 20mg in the morning and I think the tiredness came after noon sometime and it didn't go away. So I think it takes 4-6h before it sets in. So yes, it possible it's a crash although they don't activate me when I take them. Took 10mg 11am today and I feel a little tired now 4-5h later, going to take the remaining 20mg in the evening ad see how it works out, maybe spread them out a couple of hours.
> 
> /depressed77


k cool. Yah either way that will go away so you may have to eventually switch back hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Fatigue, low blood pressure, insomnia and sexual dysfunction. Been like this for a while now. At least a little exercise today, but needed a nap in the afternoon as usual.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> Fatigue, low blood pressure, insomnia and sexual dysfunction. Been like this for a while now. At least a little exercise today, but needed a nap in the afternoon as usual.
> 
> /depressed77


Did you try drinking some salt like maybe a flat teaspoon or a bit less? It could be that you are experiencing everything there because of the low blood pressure. This could account for the sexual problems too. I never experienced low blood pressure and therefore never had any of those problems.

And do that every time you see your blood pressure drop. The effects should be pretty quick too so if it is the hypotension you'll probably be feeling better within 15-30 minutes maybe even quicker.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Did you try drinking some salt like maybe a flat teaspoon or a bit less? It could be that you are experiencing everything there because of the low blood pressure. This could account for the sexual problems too. I never experienced low blood pressure and therefore never had any of those problems.
> 
> And do that every time you see your blood pressure drop. The effects should be pretty quick too so if it is the hypotension you'll probably be feeling better within 15-30 minutes maybe even quicker.


Yes I have considered that the low blood pressure, or rather the cause of, may be responsible for some side effects. I had 94/56 now so it could be a little higher. Going to try some salt and see if it increases my BP. If this doesn't improve I need to talk to my doc about it.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yes I have considered that the low blood pressure, or rather the cause of, may be responsible for some side effects. I had 94/56 now so it could be a little higher. Going to try some salt and see if it increases my BP. If this doesn't improve I need to talk to my doc about it.
> 
> /depressed77


Oh salt will work, you just have to find the right amount. 

If it doesn't work then color me tickled pink!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh and I should also mention that most parnate users do mention their hypotension going away eventually. So keep in mind this may be a transient thing. The hypotension can be controlled with salt though in the meantime.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

What ended up happening with the salt? I hope you didn't die since you went all quiet after.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> What ended up happening with the salt? I hope you didn't die since you went all quiet after.


No I went to bed a while after. I only did one measurement after the salt, about 30min it was 10 points higher, it's hard to say since it tends to fluctuate anyway. Now, 1:40pm, it's 117/71 p59, good numbers, no salt. I'm going to take a ride with my bike. How long does the effect from salt last for you?

Currently poor energy and interest.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't really know how long it lasts i only did it twice I think when my bp dropped during earlier dosing. It doesn't do it anymore, at least I haven't noticed it. Although now that I'm on the new dose it will probably creep up again at some point and then disappear later on hehe.

Typically though a fluctuation of 10mm is pretty high, and if you fluctuate that much then that's weird. I guess you can try it again today if it drops. You can try more salt too for a higher increase.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Anyways, you will start feeling better closer to day 30. At least I definitely noticed it then. And when you see the doc just raise it to 40 unless the bp problem is big then maybe give the 30 another 2 weeks and see if you keep seeing improvement. My doc actually wants to see me after 2 weeks on 40mg and probably raise it to 50mg based on results.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Typically though a fluctuation of 10mm is pretty high, and if you fluctuate that much then that's weird. I guess you can try it again today if it drops. You can try more salt too for a higher increase.


What I meant was that when I shift from the sofa to the kitchen table (where I keep my monitor), my BP changes and it takes time to settle, so the reading change a lot just from that. I once took a reading immediately from sitting down to standing up to sitting down and BP was 60/45, a couple of minutes later it had recovered to a more acceptable level. But even with that in account it fluctuates over the day with dosings, coffee and exercise.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Anyways, you will start feeling better closer to day 30. At least I definitely noticed it then. And when you see the doc just raise it to 40 unless the bp problem is big then maybe give the 30 another 2 weeks and see if you keep seeing improvement. My doc actually wants to see me after 2 weeks on 40mg and probably raise it to 50mg based on results.


Yeah, I'm going to stay at 30mg until improvement or until the side effects subside. Have you thought about how far your are willing to take it? Above 60mg?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yeah, I'm going to stay at 30mg until improvement or until the side effects subside. Have you thought about how far your are willing to take it? Above 60mg?
> 
> /depressed77


I actually don't think i'll need to go over 60. Just based off my current response. I mean a MAOI is supposed to take 12 weeks usually just because MAOI inhibition on its own takes a good 3 weeks from what I understand. Then all the changes in your brain start happening. Even Zoloft/Mirtazapine when they worked took a good 8 weeks to fully kick in.

But yah I consider my response so far pretty good considering I rarely respond. I actually did respond to effexor/olanzapine combo but it was much different, hard to explain. Like with the anxiety those 2 made it so that I still thought about the anxiety, and approaching a situation I'd be like "oh this situation will give me anxiety" But then i'd be like "you know what who cares if it gives me anxiety" and I just didn't care. Now it just feels so natural to me. I just go do things, don't think about anxiety. I will maybe realize a while after the situation that I did so well and just talked and acted natural. I never think about getting anxiety. Like that time I did all that stuff at the docs, I didn't realize it till I came back home and was going to report on what happened in my thread.

But yah I think that the SSRI combos just made me apathetic about the anxiety. But I was still happy I guess because it worked in a way. I prefer this feeling I have now. The way it should be.

Same with anhedonia. With effexor/olanzapine I did do things and enjoy it. But it just doesn't feel the same as it does now when I'm enjoying stuff. It just seems more natural to me and I get way more enjoyment out of the scenario. Like when I see something funny I pretty much laugh and it feels really good. With the others I would laugh but never really followed this good feeling, maybe very faint.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I actually don't think i'll need to go over 60. Just based off my current response. I mean a MAOI is supposed to take 12 weeks usually just because MAOI inhibition on its own takes a good 3 weeks from what I understand. Then all the changes in your brain start happening. Even Zoloft/Mirtazapine when they worked took a good 8 weeks to fully kick in.
> 
> But yah I consider my response so far pretty good considering I rarely respond. I actually did respond to effexor/olanzapine combo but it was much different, hard to explain. Like with the anxiety those 2 made it so that I still thought about the anxiety, and approaching a situation I'd be like "oh this situation will give me anxiety" But then i'd be like "you know what who cares if it gives me anxiety" and I just didn't care. Now it just feels so natural to me. I just go do things, don't think about anxiety. I will maybe realize a while after the situation that I did so well and just talked and acted natural. I never think about getting anxiety. Like that time I did all that stuff at the docs, I didn't realize it till I came back home and was going to report on what happened in my thread.
> 
> ...


The key is patience. I also had a good run with mirtazapine/sertraline for a year or so. Almost all my combos have included mirtazapine to some extent. I think my SA is somewhat worse now than it was on escitalopram/mirtazapine. No problems going to the grocery store, but I think I haven't been to the gym is partly because of SA. Partly, because I'm am feeling rather weak, not sure if I would go if the gym was guaranteed to be empty.
Although, as a key member I can go there 5am and then it's usually empty but I don't have that strength yet.
I can relate to what you are saying, all those combos that have put me in remission during the years, there's always been something missing. It's difficult to put your finger on it, but my motivation often feels 'forced' and I simply don't enjoy things the way I did pre-medication. And always a little anxiety/stress lurking in the background, I wonder if this is what ultimately makes me relapse in the end.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> The key is patience. I also had a good run with mirtazapine/sertraline for a year or so. Almost all my combos have included mirtazapine to some extent. I think my SA is somewhat worse now than it was on escitalopram/mirtazapine. No problems going to the grocery store, but I think I haven't been to the gym is partly because of SA. Partly, because I'm am feeling rather weak, not sure if I would go if the gym was guaranteed to be empty.
> Although, as a key member I can go there 5am and then it's usually empty but I don't have that strength yet.
> I can relate to what you are saying, all those combos that have put me in remission during the years, there's always been something missing. It's difficult to put your finger on it, but my motivation often feels 'forced' and I simply don't enjoy things the way I did pre-medication. And always a little anxiety/stress lurking in the background, I wonder if this is what ultimately makes me relapse in the end.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah agreed. I didn't really have any motivation on effexor/olanzapine and anticipation anhedonia was not there at all. It's just if i forced myself to say play a video game, i would enjoy it. Not as much as I do now when I get in the mood but it was enough to keep me.

Zoloft/mirtazapine did motivate me to workout though and study. Anxiety was still pretty rough on this combo but i didn't care because of the other parts.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

It's caused by vasoconstriction due to norepinephrine yes.

The best thing you can do about it is doing nothing. Don't start cranking your central heating up or start wearing extra sweaters etc. Accept and your perception will adapt.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So yah I drank quite a bit of coffee this morning so BP went down again lol. I took the salt and it stabilized again. It's really fast like within 5 minutes.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> So yah I drank quite a bit of coffee this morning so BP went down again lol. I took the salt and it stabilized again. It's really fast like within 5 minutes.


Do you split your doses?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Inshallah said:


> It's caused by vasoconstriction due to norepinephrine yes.
> 
> The best thing you can do about it is doing nothing. Don't start cranking your central heating up or start wearing extra sweaters etc. Accept and your perception will adapt.


You mean vasodilation, correct? The chills are gone fortunately and so is the nausea.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

When I ate breakfast and took my pills (20mg) they didn't make me tired. I took a bike ride to a friend and we sat on his balcony and had some coffee. Later I continued my bike ride and rode for a half hour. When I came home I started cleaning my apartment and been doing it until now, even the bathroom is shining. I wasn't rushing to get it done either, just doing it in a normal pace, felt good.
Although I can feel a slight drowsiness from the third pill, it's nothing compared to other days. Don't know what's going on, but more of this please.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Do you split your doses?


When I did 30mg I just took it all at once right when I woke up. Now that I take 20mg I'm taking 20mg right when I wake up which is usually around 7am-ish. And then I take another 20mg at around 1pm. I made it so that it matches my coffee drinking schedule. Since for some reason it really makes coffee kick so much *** to drink like 30 minutes to an hour after.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> When I did 30mg I just took it all at once right when I woke up. Now that I take 20mg I'm taking 20mg right when I wake up which is usually around 7am-ish. And then I take another 20mg at around 1pm. I made it so that it matches my coffee drinking schedule. Since for some reason it really makes coffee kick so much *** to drink like 30 minutes to an hour after.


Same here, I drink a large mug of coffee after breakfast and it really is potentiated, gets my heart going and it's easier to start the day.

/depressed77


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I actually don't think i'll need to go over 60. Just based off my current response. I mean a MAOI is supposed to take 12 weeks usually just because MAOI inhibition on its own takes a good 3 weeks from what I understand.


12 weeks is excessive, it's rare that it takes that long, especially for Parnate. Improvement should normally be noted at roughly ~6 weeks with Parnate.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> What I meant was that when I shift from the sofa to the kitchen table (where I keep my monitor), my BP changes and it takes time to settle, so the reading change a lot just from that. I once took a reading immediately from sitting down to standing up to sitting down and BP was 60/45, a couple of minutes later it had recovered to a more acceptable level. But even with that in account it fluctuates over the day with dosings, coffee and exercise.
> 
> /depressed77


It's good that you're experiencing hypotension, it's in most cases a sign that there's good things to come. Best of luck.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> It's good that you're experiencing hypotension, it's in most cases a sign that there's good things to come. Best of luck.


I've been improving quite a lot and not getting hypotension. That theory seems weird to me.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> 12 weeks is excessive, it's rare that it takes that long, especially for Parnate. Improvement should normally be noted at roughly ~6 weeks with Parnate.


I don't think it is. It's really individual no doubt but giving it up to that amount, especially before dropping it, is by far not a stretch given that it is due to plasticity that the improvement occurs.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I've been improving quite a lot and not getting hypotension. That theory seems weird to me.


It's Gillmans theory, not mine. So who knows.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I don't think it is. It's really individual no doubt but giving it up to that amount, especially before dropping it, is by far not a stretch given that it is due to plasticity that the improvement occurs.


Of course it's individual. It always is. But from what I've read Parnate is a lot faster in showing therapeutic effect than Nardil for example. And from the anecdotal reports i read on PB, (several months ago) most responded withtin 2 months :3


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I don't think it is. It's really individual no doubt but giving it up to that amount, especially before dropping it, is by far not a stretch given that it is due to plasticity that the improvement occurs.


Well, even if it's less than 12 weeks, like maybe 6 or 8, why'd you move up to 40mg instead of waiting that time on 30mg?

Also, how Parnate inhibits MAO faster than Nardil? I didn't know that..


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> It's Gillmans theory, not mine. So who knows.


For Parnate though? I know that he was saying that about Nardil. Anyways, I guess it could be a good sign in that you know the drug is being absorbed and bioavailable if you are getting such a strong effect. I just hope he doesn't create the notion that not getting hypotension means treatment is not working.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Well, even if it's less than 12 weeks, like maybe 6 or 8, why'd you move up to 40mg instead of waiting that time on 30mg?
> 
> Also, how Parnate inhibits MAO faster than Nardil? I didn't know that..


Parnate binds faster, but less potently to the MAO enzyme. Nardil binds slower but a lot stronger. And this means Parnate shows therapeutic effect faster than Nardil. As such, Parnate needs to be dosed more often (at least every three days) to keep a stable MAO inhibition.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> but less potently to the MAO enzyme.


Well, since you can bedazzle around your Parnate dosage, this doesn't mean anything for efficacy does it? (just me cuing my paranoia)


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Well, even if it's less than 12 weeks, like maybe 6 or 8, why'd you move up to 40mg instead of waiting that time on 30mg?
> 
> Also, how Parnate inhibits MAO faster than Nardil? I didn't know that..


I don't know if it inhibits it faster. It will vary from person to person as usual. I'm just saying that the results people get are some sort of remodeling of the brain that occurs. I mean it's a slow process so you will at least notice something. Like I'm not 100% remission but am noticing improvement.

I raised the dosage because typically, anything I have ever taken I had to be on the max dosage to even get any response. So my doctor and I agreed that if i'm not getting any side effects and I am responding, might as well raise the dosage and avoid making me wait longer. I mean if I wait and don't get the results I need from 30 I'll have to raise it to 40 anyways, and then more waiting. Why not just raise it and avoid the whole process if you have no side effects? I mean if someone for example is getting bad hypotension and sexual side effects I can't see them wanting to raise the dosage heh.

If you are not getting any side effects and some response you could do it too. A lot of people avoid the higher doses for either cost or because side effects increase.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Well, since you can bedazzle around your Parnate dosage, this doesn't mean anything for efficacy does it? (just me cuing my paranoia)


No, imo they're equal in efficacy for depression, Nardil might have a upper hand when it comes to anxiety, but Parnate can still in a lot of cases be very good for anxiety disorders.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> No, imo they're equal in efficacy for depression, Nardil might have a upper hand when it comes to anxiety, but Parnate can still in a lot of cases be very good for anxiety disorders.


Well I don't know about equal. Parnate has been shown to be more selective for MAO-B, so that will produce some very different results.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Well I don't know about equal. Parnate has been shown to be more selective for MAO-B, so that will produce some very different results.


You always seem to have a different opinion of everything i say, but that's fine. Wouldn't be too much fun if everyone in the world agreed about everything?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

ChopSuey said:


> It's good that you're experiencing hypotension, it's in most cases a sign that there's good things to come. Best of luck.


Thank you for your kind words, ChopSuey.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

It was really easy getting up early today, 7am, mainly because I haven't slept for a second. I really need to overcome the urge for afternoon naps.
I'm not tired at all at the moment.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> It was really easy getting up early today, 7am, mainly because I haven't slept for a second. I really need to overcome the urge for afternoon naps.
> I'm not tired at all at the moment.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah I was up since 6am today haha. Once you wake up it's tough falling back asleep. That's why I always go to bed early because even if I go late it's not like I'll wake up any later. Typically get 7-8 hours if I go to bed at 10pm.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So is having Parnate with food helping you? I always take it on an empty stomach. I'd still do that for my morning dose since I just take it when I wake up. I could probably try my afternoon dose with food. I just don't want food slowing down absorption heh.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I was up since 6am today haha. Once you wake up it's tough falling back asleep. That's why I always go to bed early because even if I go late it's not like I'll wake up any later. Typically get 7-8 hours if I go to bed at 10pm.


Well I ate breakfast, took my pills and some extra clonazepam and became a little drowsy, tried to make up for sleep between 8-12. But a construction company thought it was a brilliant idea to renovate the apartment above me an early Saturday. Although some naps here and there it has been a shallow sleep.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Well I ate breakfast, took my pills and some extra clonazepam and became a little drowsy, tried to make up for sleep between 8-12. But a construction company thought it was a brilliant idea to renovate the apartment above me an early Saturday. Although some naps here and there it has been a shallow sleep.
> 
> /depressed77


They should get together with my neighbour who will mow his lawn early saturday morning when the sun breaks hah. Yah I mean I was never that tired going through my earlier stages but I did have slow downs I would say, not enough to nap. But those passed so my guess is they will pass for you but possibly take longer due to their severity.

In terms of sleeping, my sleep seems very deep and I do get dreams. But that may be due to the sleep aids I take. I actually noticed more dreams when I added the benadryl.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> So is having Parnate with food helping you? I always take it on an empty stomach. I'd still do that for my morning dose since I just take it when I wake up. I could probably try my afternoon dose with food. I just don't want food slowing down absorption heh.


I don't think there's any difference to be honest, of the two pills I take in the morning, I take the first on empty stomach and the other one after I finished eating. The third I take with food, I want to delay the absorption  thinking it could lessen fatigue from the pill itself and the 'crash'.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> They should get together with my neighbour who will mow his lawn early saturday morning when the sun breaks hah. Yah I mean I was never that tired going through my earlier stages but I did have slow downs I would say, not enough to nap. But those passed so my guess is they will pass for you but possibly take longer due to their severity.
> 
> In terms of sleeping, my sleep seems very deep and I do get dreams. But that may be due to the sleep aids I take. I actually noticed more dreams when I added the benadryl.


But those Parnate pass-outs are so incredible pleasant. Just closing my eyes for an hour, I'm not sure if I even fall asleep, it's hard to say, someone would need to watch me and see if I actually pass out. It can't be for very long though because I check the clock now and then and only ten-fifteen minutes usually have passed.
I'm not going to allow myself any naps today, maybe it will help with the insomnia. A good thing is that it's getting darker outside, atleast when it comes to sleep.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> But those Parnate pass-outs are so incredible pleasant. Just closing my eyes for an hour, I'm not sure if I even fall asleep, it's hard to say, someone would need to watch me and see if I actually pass out. It can't be for very long though because I check the clock now and then and only ten-fifteen minutes usually have passed.
> I'm not going to allow myself any naps today, maybe it will help with the insomnia. A good thing is that it's getting darker outside, atleast when it comes to sleep.
> 
> /depressed77


Oh I see what you mean. During that initial euphoria after taking the pill? I know when you lay down it just feels sooooo good. I had that too but I don't think I ever actually fell asleep it seems like I was on the edge of it. The funny part is when I'm up and about i'm not tired or anything. I would maybe lay down to stretch and that would happen hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Oh I see what you mean. During that initial euphoria after taking the pill? I know when you lay down it just feels sooooo good. I had that too but I don't think I ever actually fell asleep it seems like I was on the edge of it. The funny part is when I'm up and about i'm not tired or anything. I would maybe lay down to stretch and that would happen hehe.


More like in the evening when the last pill wears off, I always drink coffee when I take the pills which keeps me going. 14.5km on the bike today. Will you workout today?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> More like in the evening when the last pill wears off, I always drink coffee when I take the pills which keeps me going. 14.5km on the bike today. Will you workout today?
> 
> /depressed77


Honestly I don't know. I woke up this morning with a killer stiff and painful neck. Can't even move my head properly. Sometimes happens when I sleep like a dumbass. hehe

I'm waiting to see if it will go away, if not can't really do much until it does.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Speaking of naps I just had a fnap. It was a fap followed by a nap. Though, it wasn't like a full nap, but more of a 45 minute never quite reaching sleep type deal. Still it was refreshing either way hehe. So hope this doesn't lead to trouble falling asleep tonight.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Speaking of naps I just had a fnap. It was a fap followed by a nap. Though, it wasn't like a full nap, but more of a 45 minute never quite reaching sleep type deal. Still it was refreshing either way hehe. So hope this doesn't lead to trouble falling asleep tonight.


I have those types of naps, although today I have had none, I have invited a friend over to watch a movie to keep me awake these last few hours of the evening. It would be really nice to have a 12-8 sleep tonight. I felt the drowsiness sneaking up on me after dinner but I refused to give in, so I made some coffee and took a long shower. Don't ask me if I fapped in the shower.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I have those types of naps, although today I have had none, I have invited a friend over to watch a movie to keep me awake these last few hours of the evening. It would be really nice to have a 12-8 sleep tonight. I felt the drowsiness sneaking up on me after dinner but I refused to give in, so I made some coffee and took a long shower. Don't ask me if I fapped in the shower.
> 
> /depressed77


Nope won't ask. I won't even ask what you did with the shampoo bottle in order to get ready for your friend coming over. Nope not me.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Finally a full night's sleep and then some. I must have slept eleven hours, so from now on: no naps. No interest or energy, I have been wondering if that second week on 20mg was just the stimulating effect from Parnate or due to additive effects from Seroquel which I quit. Can't really restart it now.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> Finally a full night's sleep and then some. I must have slept eleven hours, so from now on: no naps. No interest or energy, I have been wondering if that second week on 20mg was just the stimulating effect from Parnate or due to additive effects from Seroquel which I quit. Can't really restart it now.
> 
> /depressed77


11 hours damn! I usually do 8 max and my body just doesn't allow more heh.

I found out why I was messing up my neck because I did it again. I'm sleeping in this position that puts all this force on my shoulder which is traveling to my neck. It's kind of comfortable though, so gotta figure out how not to end up like that heh.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> 11 hours damn! I usually do 8 max and my body just doesn't allow more heh.
> 
> I found out why I was messing up my neck because I did it again. I'm sleeping in this position that puts all this force on my shoulder which is traveling to my neck. It's kind of comfortable though, so gotta figure out how not to end up like that heh.


Yeah, I guess I needed it. You could always try and change pillow, sometimes that's enough. Do you always sleep on the same side? Now it's time for more coffee 

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yeah, I guess I needed it. You could always try and change pillow, sometimes that's enough. Do you always sleep on the same side? Now it's time for more coffee
> 
> /depressed77


I'm on my first cup!

Actually this is a new way of sleeping I discovered. I usually sleep flat on my face/stomach. But I find that this makes me get a lot of jaw tension. The only way to keep myself sleeping on the side is by grasping a pillow in my arms like it was a person and it keeps me on my side all night. I'm fine on my right side but when I go to the left I just do something funky with my shoulder. Somehow I start off on my right when I go to bed but end up waking up on my left hah. I didn't take notice if I actually did it semi-consciously last night or it happened on its own. To move the pillow with me I would assume it would require me to be semi conscious. Will pay attention tonight heh.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Didn't have to wait long for sleep last night but only needed a couple of hours of sleep. I feel rested and had coffee at 6:30am. Hopefully I will have some energy today to pass time.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> Didn't have to wait long for sleep last night but only needed a couple of hours of sleep. I feel rested and had coffee at 6:30am. Hopefully I will have some energy today to pass time.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah I didn't sleep very well but probably because of the workout. I always get this problem when starting up a new workout routine. Plus already sore, it's only going to get worse hehe. Might have to move day 2 to Thursday or something. I'll see if I force myself to do it today in the pain! hah. It will be hard though because there's walking lunges involved and my legs are just in so much pain.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I didn't sleep very well but probably because of the workout. I always get this problem when starting up a new workout routine. Plus already sore, it's only going to get worse hehe. Might have to move day 2 to Thursday or something. I'll see if I force myself to do it today in the pain! hah. It will be hard though because there's walking lunges involved and my legs are just in so much pain.


Exercise can do that. It's probably better to have a rest day. I'm feeling worse today, don't like this feeling at all, weakness in my muscles and tired.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Exercise can do that. It's probably better to have a rest day. I'm feeling worse today, don't like this feeling at all, weakness in my muscles and tired.
> 
> /depressed77


I recall day 14 not being that great for me but day 15 and 16 I took 40mg and felt energized hah. I only did it cuz I had 2 pills left over from a previous month batch. Then I went back to 30. I ended up 40mg anyways. My Day 23 was really bad for me, felt pretty depressed. Then day 24 I felt really good. It was kind of all over the place for me. I'm more stable now with good moods though I'm also on 40mg. I did have a "so so" mood the other day but it wasn't a bad one.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I recall day 14 not being that great for me but day 15 and 16 I took 40mg and felt energized hah. I only did it cuz I had 2 pills left over from a previous month batch. Then I went back to 30. I ended up 40mg anyways. My Day 23 was really bad for me, felt pretty depressed. Then day 24 I felt really good. It was kind of all over the place for me. I'm more stable now with good moods though I'm also on 40mg. I did have a "so so" mood the other day but it wasn't a bad one.


Having some coffee now, maybe my mood improves a bit. I'm a little concerned over my low blood pressure, I felt much better in the morning with high blood pressure after taking my pills with coffee. I checked it recently after a nap and as usual the systolic pressure was under 100, this is problem, especially if I need a dose increase. Maybe it's time to bring it up with my doc. But I won't take cortisone.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Having some coffee now, maybe my mood improves a bit. I'm a little concerned over my low blood pressure, I felt much better in the morning with high blood pressure after taking my pills with coffee. I checked it recently after a nap and as usual the systolic pressure was under 100, this is problem, especially if I need a dose increase. Maybe it's time to bring it up with my doc. But I won't take cortisone.
> 
> /depressed77


Well it's apparently a transient effect that does go away but you need time to adjust. Even for Nardil users which get it way more often it eventually balances out. It takes a good amount of time though, we are talking 12 weeks before you can seriously decide. But in the meantime why aren't you doing the salt thing? You don't find it works? It should. If you have 1 teaspoon it doesn't quite get it up, have 2. It's just the way salt works it should flood your blood with fluid and increase the blood pressure.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Well it's apparently a transient effect that does go away but you need time to adjust. Even for Nardil users which get it way more often it eventually balances out. It takes a good amount of time though, we are talking 12 weeks before you can seriously decide. But in the meantime why aren't you doing the salt thing? You don't find it works? It should. If you have 1 teaspoon it doesn't quite get it up, have 2. It's just the way salt works it should flood your blood with fluid and increase the blood pressure.


I did take a small spoon of salt a while ago. Yeah I know, I believe that's the way cortisone works, forcing salt into the bloodstream. I'm going to take salt on a regular basis from now on. Will do a reading later in the evening and see.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I did take a small spoon of salt a while ago. Yeah I know, I believe that's the way cortisone works, forcing salt into the bloodstream. I'm going to take salt on a regular basis from now on. Will do a reading later in the evening and see.
> 
> /depressed77


Except cortisone also comes with other drawbacks like thinning skin, weird stuff hehe.

Yah it's weird because I actually have had low BP persist today. I didn't do anything about it as it let me lay in bed and nap while i'm super sore. But a bit ago I got out of bed and wanted to be up and about again and yah I had to take 2 teaspoons of salt to stabilize it. It was actually the lowest I've had it in a while. 101/63.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Except cortisone also comes with other drawbacks like thinning skin, weird stuff hehe.
> 
> Yah it's weird because I actually have had low BP persist today. I didn't do anything about it as it let me lay in bed and nap while i'm super sore. But a bit ago I got out of bed and wanted to be up and about again and yah I had to take 2 teaspoons of salt to stabilize it. It was actually the lowest I've had it in a while. 101/63.


Laying down a lot will cause low blood pressure, so it may be just that. My BP is better those days I have energy todo something standing or sitting. My horniness is on the 'rise' and the delay in orgasm is shorter. This could be a good sign. I notice that I feel better once the tranylcypromine has cleared from my body, so I will take all three pills within a few hours in the am so atleast the evenings are better. Does the salt mess with the stomach or is it just me?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Laying down a lot will cause low blood pressure, so it may be just that. My BP is better those days I have energy todo something standing or sitting. My horniness is on the 'rise' and the delay in orgasm is shorter. This could be a good sign. I notice that I feel better once the tranylcypromine has cleared from my body, so I will take all three pills within a few hours in the am so atleast the evenings are better. Does the salt mess with the stomach or is it just me?
> 
> /depressed77


You have to drink a lot of water with it! When I didn't drink much water it definitely messed as it enters your intestines and draws water out. First time I got some serious diarrhea. I usually drink 750ml with each teaspoon at this point.

Yah I actually think I preferred taking my full dose in the morning back when I was at 30mg. The only positive with taking it twice is that I get to have that good coffee feeling 2 times during the day. I may eventually play around with taking it all at once in the morning. Even if I go to 60mg hah.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So I have been reading and apparently the dose split is not only for the stimulating part but really that it could cause hypertension at high doses taken at once. I actually remember once clocking in at 165 bp one morning when I first started 30mg. But that never happened again. It could have been also because I didn't sleep at all the night before. I'm going to go back to 30mg morning 10mg later and then once im used to 30mg in the morning I'll take 40mg at once and just monitor bp.

Anyways sleep time!


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> So I have been reading and apparently the dose split is not only for the stimulating part but really that it could cause hypertension at high doses taken at once. I actually remember once clocking in at 165 bp one morning when I first started 30mg. But that never happened again. It could have been also because I didn't sleep at all the night before. I'm going to go back to 30mg morning 10mg later and then once im used to 30mg in the morning I'll take 40mg at once and just monitor bp.
> 
> Anyways sleep time!


Well, there's been anecdotal reports of people who have gotten spontaneous dangerously high blood-pressure from taking a relatively normal dose of Parnate. When they usually don't.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Except cortisone also comes with other drawbacks like thinning skin, weird stuff hehe.
> 
> Yah it's weird because I actually have had low BP persist today. I didn't do anything about it as it let me lay in bed and nap while i'm super sore. But a bit ago I got out of bed and wanted to be up and about again and yah I had to take 2 teaspoons of salt to stabilize it. It was actually the lowest I've had it in a while. 101/63.


Tolddd ya sooooo

Low BP already ? Wait till higher doses


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> So I have been reading and apparently the dose split is not only for the stimulating part but really that it could cause hypertension at high doses taken at once. I actually remember once clocking in at 165 bp one morning when I first started 30mg. But that never happened again. It could have been also because I didn't sleep at all the night before. I'm going to go back to 30mg morning 10mg later and then once im used to 30mg in the morning I'll take 40mg at once and just monitor bp.
> 
> Anyways sleep time!


When I take 20mg in the morning with coffee my sys BP rises to above 140 with some palpitations. I can imagine a single dose of 40mg with a large cup of coffee being a little unpleasant, atleast for someone not used to that combination.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

ChopSuey said:


> Well, there's been anecdotal reports of people who have gotten spontaneous dangerously high blood-pressure from taking a relatively normal dose of Parnate. When they usually don't.


I guess this could be fairly easy to correct with beta-blockers, if it wasn't a tyramine response.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Itchy this morning. Didn't get to sleep before 4am and was waken up by someone who thinks hammer drilling is the brightest idea early in the morning. Will take my 30mg before 12am and see how I respond regarding mood, weakness and blood pressure during the day. Maybe I can force myself to the gym later, it's long overdue.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> Well, there's been anecdotal reports of people who have gotten spontaneous dangerously high blood-pressure from taking a relatively normal dose of Parnate. When they usually don't.


Yah I will monitor. Odd thing is I feel great when my BP is over 120.



CD700 said:


> Tolddd ya sooooo
> 
> Low BP already ? Wait till higher doses


Well it's been on and off like that all the time. Usually it's normal though. I can avoid it when I don't drink coffee, I have no idea why coffee drops my bp, you would think the opposite. And it's not always too. If I have 1 cup i'm usually fine it's the 2+ cups that I love to have that screw me over until I drink some salt. I also don't get any sodium in my diet which is suspect for me. I know coffee contains potassium. I also drink cocoa powder which is loaded in potassium. Nothing I eat contains sodium hah. **** I may be onto something. I just checked 1 cup of coffee has 116mg of potassium. So 3 cups will put me over 300mg.



depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> Itchy this morning. Didn't get to sleep before 4am and was waken up by someone who thinks hammer drilling is the brightest idea early in the morning. Will take my 30mg before 12am and see how I respond regarding mood, weakness and blood pressure during the day. Maybe I can force myself to the gym later, it's long overdue.
> 
> /depressed77


If you didn't sleep avoid the gym! You will just make it harder to recover. Why didn't you get to sleep before 4am? Couldn't or were you watching pr0n? hehe I usually hit the bed 10-11pm.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> If you didn't sleep avoid the gym! You will just make it harder to recover. Why didn't you get to sleep before 4am? Couldn't or were you watching pr0n? hehe I usually hit the bed 10-11pm.


I couldn't, I went to bed a little before 1am, as long as I need naps I'm not going to have a normal rhythm.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I couldn't, I went to bed a little before 1am, as long as I need naps I'm not going to have a normal rhythm.
> 
> /depressed77


Ahh damn naps. At least if they didn't drill you probably would have gotten more at least. I actually sleep with ear plugs cuz im sensitive to noise.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Waken up early by a construction company renovating the apartment above, although I hate it then, it's actually a good thing since I'm forced to go up. Breakfast and coffee, a couple of hours later, GYM! First time since end of June. A 50min workout, felt dizzy afterwards and I thought my BP was very low but it was 116/60, so no problems. No problems doing squats either, this was a problem with ami-/nortriptyline.
Hopefully I can workout tomorrow too, I was socially anxious going there today and I nearly skipped it, it been such a long time. But once I got started it was no problem at all and I felt relaxed about it.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> Waken up early by a construction company renovating the apartment above, although I hate it then, it's actually a good thing since I'm forced to go up. Breakfast and coffee, a couple of hours later, GYM! First time since end of June. A 50min workout, felt dizzy afterwards and I thought my BP was very low but it was 116/60, so no problems. No problems doing squats either, this was a problem with ami-/nortriptyline.
> Hopefully I can workout tomorrow too, I was socially anxious going there today and I nearly skipped it, it been such a long time. But once I got started it was no problem at all and I felt relaxed about it.
> ...


That's awesome man! In any event you can drink some salt before a workout. We take our blood pressures sitting down right? What if it's lower standing. Maybe I should try taking it standing. Anyways, an hour ago I took 40mg at once and my bp is at 128/73 so it's not bad at all hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> That's awesome man! In any event you can drink some salt before a workout. We take our blood pressures sitting down right? What if it's lower standing. Maybe I should try taking it standing. Anyways, an hour ago I took 40mg at once and my bp is at 128/73 so it's not bad at all hehe.


Thanks. I did take some salt afterwards just to keep it up. Yes, I always sit down when I measure, I try to wait a couple of minutes to let it adjust. You can't possibly get a much better BP than that so that's good news. I have noticed I need to exercise to keep the fatigue away, as soon as I felt the fatigue coming I took my bag and went to the gym, nothing so far works that good for fatigue. And it stays away too during the day, well it's better anyway. I should be able to go to bed at a more normal time tonight and get up a little earlier.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Blood pressure is normalizing, 114/70 this morning. Still hard to fall asleep in the night but once I sleep, I sleep well. Slept perhaps 5h this night and it seems to be enough. I'm not sure about anhedonia and energy, will try to workout today, but I don't have anything that I would like to do and I still lack mental energy.
The afternoon or evening (depending on when I get up) fatigue is still there and it's hard not to take a nap. But even a short nap seems to ruin the chances of falling asleep within an hour when going to bed.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Schedule a time to take your parnate and take it like that every morning. I take it at 7am every day. I take the full dosage. Even if you are sleeping try to get yourself woken up at that time to take it. Take melatonin every day at the same time. I take it at 9:30pm every day. Doesn't matter if it helps you sleep or not, just keep taking it. It should eventually stabilize your circadian rhythm. 

Anyways, I woke up at 5:20 today because man I was hungry! All the working out i'm doing is speeding up my metabolism. But I still probably fell asleep at around 10pm anyways. The thing is I take my sleep meds at the same time every day and go to bed at the same time every day, even if I can't sleep. I won't waste it sitting up on the computer, I rather just toss and turn. It's part of how I got my sleep schedule more normal. Sitting at the computer and going to bed at odd times just made things worse eventually.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Schedule a time to take your parnate and take it like that every morning. I take it at 7am every day. I take the full dosage. Even if you are sleeping try to get yourself woken up at that time to take it. Take melatonin every day at the same time. I take it at 9:30pm every day. Doesn't matter if it helps you sleep or not, just keep taking it. It should eventually stabilize your circadian rhythm.
> 
> Anyways, I woke up at 5:20 today because man I was hungry! All the working out i'm doing is speeding up my metabolism. But I still probably fell asleep at around 10pm anyways. The thing is I take my sleep meds at the same time every day and go to bed at the same time every day, even if I can't sleep. I won't waste it sitting up on the computer, I rather just toss and turn. It's part of how I got my sleep schedule more normal. Sitting at the computer and going to bed at odd times just made things worse eventually.


I'm trying to do that, I'm thinking of taking the whole dosage in the morning. I've had bad mood all day, since I woke up, it must have been this dream and the weather. I dreamt I met this lady and I remember I hug her for several minutes (and it felt good) and then I woke up for some reason, woke up to this. Ugh. One of my best friends told me yesterday he has a date, while I'm happy for his sake, it really affected my mood, I want to date too.
So I went to the gym today, drove my car and listening to the radio, they were gonna play some good songs after the commercials so I took a detour just so I could hear them and cheer me up. That didn't matter because the commercials still lasted all the way to the gym.
It's been these small annoying things all day. Hope you have a better day.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I'm trying to do that, I'm thinking of taking the whole dosage in the morning. I've had bad mood all day, since I woke up, it must have been this dream and the weather. I dreamt I met this lady and I remember I hug her for several minutes (and it felt good) and then I woke up for some reason, woke up to this. Ugh. One of my best friends told me yesterday he has a date, while I'm happy for his sake, it really affected my mood, I want to date too.
> So I went to the gym today, drove my car and listening to the radio, they were gonna play some good songs after the commercials so I took a detour just so I could hear them and cheer me up. That didn't matter because the commercials still lasted all the way to the gym.
> It's been these small annoying things all day. Hope you have a better day.
> 
> /depressed77


Don't let things like that get to you though! I want to date too, but I know I can't. I just realize that I will eventually and at that point I will be in the mindset to actually let my relationships last or at least have meaningful ones. I can't tell you how many relationships I ruined because of depression. The longest one I had was a year and a half and it was probably the best one, a super hot and smart girl, but I ruined it anyways hah. And even after ruining it I was non-chalant and didn't care. I actually only realized 6 months later I had done something really bad. By then it was too late to repair. But hey I learned a lot, and the biggest thing is that I need help and that my future will be better than my past. So maybe a bit more ups and downs but eventually things will stabilize.

I highly recommend the 1 a day dosing. Since going back to it things have been much better for me. I don't know why the 2 a day just doesn't work out for me. (it's like I get tired or something after the 2nd dose, but first dose makes me energized) Anyways I think you are having one of those bad days that I had if I recall! i had a really bad depressing day I think day 23 or something like that. I think you would also be a candidate to hit 40mg. I definitely think it has helped improved my mood quite a bit. Although you will probably destabilize your BP again.. maybe, can't say for sure. I'm still going to 50mg at the end of september. I can only imagine what that will do for me if 40mg did so much for my mood.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Don't let things like that get to you though! I want to date too, but I know I can't. I just realize that I will eventually and at that point I will be in the mindset to actually let my relationships last or at least have meaningful ones. I can't tell you how many relationships I ruined because of depression. The longest one I had was a year and a half and it was probably the best one, a super hot and smart girl, but I ruined it anyways hah. And even after ruining it I was non-chalant and didn't care. I actually only realized 6 months later I had done something really bad. By then it was too late to repair. But hey I learned a lot, and the biggest thing is that I need help and that my future will be better than my past. So maybe a bit more ups and downs but eventually things will stabilize.


Yeah, but it seems so far away, there's no guarantee this treatment will work either. I'm normally optimistic but sometimes I just get tired of it all, knowing how many years this depression has taken away from me and keeps doing it. Every day on the couch is a day wasted. It is such a shame. I was looking forward to see some females at the gym but it only made things worse. Well, I guess I have to ride this one out.



kehcorpz said:


> I highly recommend the 1 a day dosing. Since going back to it things have been much better for me. I don't know why the 2 a day just doesn't work out for me. (it's like I get tired or something after the 2nd dose, but first dose makes me energized) Anyways I think you are having one of those bad days that I had if I recall! i had a really bad depressing day I think day 23 or something like that. I think you would also be a candidate to hit 40mg. I definitely think it has helped improved my mood quite a bit. Although you will probably destabilize your BP again.. maybe, can't say for sure. I'm still going to 50mg at the end of september. I can only imagine what that will do for me if 40mg did so much for my mood.


I definitely get tired a few hours after the second dose, that's my main incentive of taking it all in the morning. I have an appointment with my doc next week, we will decide if I should raise the dosage then. If no clear improvement, it's the only option. It may possibly lower BP, but it seems to be a transient side effect so it shouldn't be a problem. No sexual dysfunction for you?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yeah, but it seems so far away, there's no guarantee this treatment will work either. I'm normally optimistic but sometimes I just get tired of it all, knowing how many years this depression has taken away from me and keeps doing it. Every day on the couch is a day wasted. It is such a shame. I was looking forward to see some females at the gym but it only made things worse. Well, I guess I have to ride this one out.


True, 17 odd years I wasted of my life. I didn't even think I had depression even though I was diagnosed early on in college. I'm 30 now anyways. I just thought the doctor was stupid and that I had no reason to be depressed. So my disease progressed. I then started taking "natural/herbal remedies" trying with all those for years. Then I went to marijuana. And finally realized I need real help. I dropped my career that I built up over the years, I dropped my ex, I mean I just messed up my life big time. But hey, i'm just happy that i'm getting legitimate help. And there's no guarantee, but given how I'm responding thus far I have good reason to believe it will work. Some people even need much higher doses than 60mg. I don't think i'll be one of those since 40mg is already doing pretty well.



depressed77 said:


> I definitely get tired a few hours after the second dose, that's my main incentive of taking it all in the morning. I have an appointment with my doc next week, we will decide if I should raise the dosage then. If no clear improvement, it's the only option. It may possibly lower BP, but it seems to be a transient side effect so it shouldn't be a problem. No sexual dysfunction for you?


Yah the lower BP always stabilizes. Your body always wants stable bp but takes a while no doubt. Even in your case it's taking a good month just to get where it is. Unfortunately raising dose may set you back to waiting another month. And repeat if you raise it again.

As far as the sexual side goes i've stabilized with the horniness. Maybe because I'm working out who knows. The day before I didn't even fap and only once yesterday. Although that's another thing about the 2nd dose. I recall getting much softer erections when taking the 2nd dose, I mean could have been a coincidence though. I think after the dose there's some point where that happens. But since I take it in the morning now I don't know since I usually fap later in the evenings  I don't really care to test out the 2nd dose theory, just something I think might have been happening now that I think back to it.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

hey, depressed, do you ever plan on going up from 30mg? if you do, when'll that be?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Jawi96 said:


> hey, depressed, do you ever plan on going up from 30mg? if you do, when'll that be?


I have en appointment with my doc next Wednesday, if I haven't seen a significant improvement by then, we will raise to 40mg. By then I have given 30mg a month.

/depressed77


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Better mood today, so far atleast.
Slept to noon, a little late, but I fell asleep late. Took the whole 30mg dose with 'breakfast', the idea is to avoid the naps that effectively destroy my sleep rhythm. I'm planning on going to the gym soon.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> Better mood today, so far atleast.
> Slept to noon, a little late, but I fell asleep late. Took the whole 30mg dose with 'breakfast', the idea is to avoid the naps that effectively destroy my sleep rhythm. I'm planning on going to the gym soon.
> ...


At the gym show the ladies your med bracelet and go "sometimes I just pump too hard, in bed as well" *wink*

Yah I woke up same as usual, close to 7am.

Sounds like you had a similar issue as I where I had that day of depression followed by stabilizing of mood the next day.And around the same time too, Weird.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> At the gym show the ladies your med bracelet and go "sometimes I just pump too hard, in bed as well" *wink*


I keep it visible, adds a little 'mystery'  I think it should be more obvious who's single and who's not. Perhaps like a highly visible bracelet or something.



kehcorpz said:


> Yah I woke up same as usual, close to 7am.
> 
> Sounds like you had a similar issue as I where I had that day of depression followed by stabilizing of mood the next day.And around the same time too, Weird.


Interesting. Well I was to the gym, but I hit the wall so quickly, one rep is going fine and then the next one I suddenly lose all power. On the bench, those two hooks that are lowest saved me a couple of times. Don't know if my muscles are out of shape or if I'm weakened by tranyl. 
Checked my BP and it's normal, although I took my whole dose a little late, I hope I can resist a nap later.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I keep it visible, adds a little 'mystery'  I think it should be more obvious who's single and who's not. Perhaps like a highly visible bracelet or something.
> 
> Interesting. Well I was to the gym, but I hit the wall so quickly, one rep is going fine and then the next one I suddenly lose all power. On the bench, those two hooks that are lowest saved me a couple of times. Don't know if my muscles are out of shape or if I'm weakened by tranyl.
> Checked my BP and it's normal, although I took my whole dose a little late, I hope I can resist a nap later.
> ...


Hmm that's weird. Also try to avoid over training. Classic signs of over training are very similar where you just are not able to even do the same from the previous session, and fatigue and all that.

But yah I usually wait to hit the gym a few hours after parnate. Typically 4-5 hours. I also drink a bit of salt regardless of my blood pressure. I just did that one day and well my workouts have been good so i haven't stopped since.

Anyways, set an alarm for Parnate. It should be taken at the same time every day, even GlaxoSmithKline stresses this in their product monograph.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Hmm that's weird. Also try to avoid over training. Classic signs of over training are very similar where you just are not able to even do the same from the previous session, and fatigue and all that.
> 
> But yah I usually wait to hit the gym a few hours after parnate. Typically 4-5 hours. I also drink a bit of salt regardless of my blood pressure. I just did that one day and well my workouts have been good so i haven't stopped since.
> 
> Anyways, set an alarm for Parnate. It should be taken at the same time every day, even GlaxoSmithKline stresses this in their product monograph.


Yeah, it's rest day tomorrow. I have waited a couple of hours after breakfast when the fatigue from the pills set in. It could be this fatigue that makes me perform less at the gym. I like going to the gym between morning and 2pm, it's less crowded. I need to get up earlier, will set the alarm at 8:00am tomorrow.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yeah, it's rest day tomorrow. I have waited a couple of hours after breakfast when the fatigue from the pills set in. It could be this fatigue that makes me perform less at the gym. I like going to the gym between morning and 2pm, it's less crowded. I need to get up earlier, will set the alarm at 8:00am tomorrow.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah I have the advantage of having my own gym  Though it's more dangerous hah.

Maybe you will be like me when you start taking it in the morning and only get energy from it. I don't get tired at all. It's only when I was taking that later dose that it happened. I also drink my morning coffee a bit after. About to start my workout soon.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I have the advantage of having my own gym  Though it's more dangerous hah.
> 
> Maybe you will be like me when you start taking it in the morning and only get energy from it. I don't get tired at all. It's only when I was taking that later dose that it happened. I also drink my morning coffee a bit after. About to start my workout soon.


That would be awesome! Good luck with the workout 

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> That would be awesome! Good luck with the workout
> 
> /depressed77


Thanks! It was an awesome workout. That 4th superset I had to add this week really made a huge difference. I really felt the lactic acid build up, felt like puking for a bit after. Luckily I didn't hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

I was still wide awake at 3am so I decided so take 10mg of tranyl. It did make me tired, I even started yawning, and fell asleep an hour later. But it felt like a shallow low quality sleep and after a few hours (7:30am) I took 20mg more of tranyl. It was a little too much, it got my heart thumping, but I eventually once again entered that low quality sleep cycle where I wake up once every hour but fall asleep again.
Don't know if this is a good idea, while I at least get some sleep, it's not a long uninterrupted sleep, but it's better than nothing. Since I took it so early, it's going to be interesting to see about the afternoon/evening fatigue. Also, the last days I have had almost complete impotence and anorgasmia, this was unexpected, hopefully it's transient.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Day [email protected]
> 
> I was still wide awake at 3am so I decided so take 10mg of tranyl. It did make me tired, I even started yawning, and fell asleep an hour later. But it felt like a shallow low quality sleep and after a few hours (7:30am) I took 20mg more of tranyl. It was a little too much, it got my heart thumping, but I eventually once again entered that low quality sleep cycle where I wake up once every hour but fall asleep again.
> Don't know if this is a good idea, while I at least get some sleep, it's not a long uninterrupted sleep, but it's better than nothing. Since I took it so early, it's going to be interesting to see about the afternoon/evening fatigue. Also, the last days I have had almost complete impotence and anorgasmia, this was unexpected, hopefully it's transient.
> ...


Ugh that really blows pygmy goats. Yah I read all about the insomnia problems before I started taking it, this is part of the reason I started taking it in the morning right away. I don't like my sleep interrupted! I also mentioned I had some days of total libido loss/limp noodle and they went away.

Hell, what I noticed last night is funny. So I did a crazy workout and I was a bit tired after but it was just a typical tiredness after your workout which went away and was replaced with euphoria. I was fine the rest of the day too. Later I got to fapping somehow and had my orgasm. The orgasm was freaking great and after that I became sooo exhausted combined with the orgasm euphoria. I honestly had to lay down in bed and laid there for an hour and a half. I tried getting up several times but was soo tired. I didn't even have it in me to go check my blood pressure. So I just decided to after that hour and a half to drink a teaspoon of salt. Sure enough slowly I started becoming normal again. It's weird if orgasm causes blood pressure drop. Will have to actually check sometime as it's just a theory based off the salt working. It could have also been coincidence though. I just don't want to be at a girls after 1 session fall asleep on her lol. Usually i'm a multiple session kind of guy. Guess after I orgasm i'll be like "brb gotta have some salt water in the kitchen" hopefully she doesn't say "try this stuff, it tastes salty....."


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Ugh that really blows pygmy goats. Yah I read all about the insomnia problems before I started taking it, this is part of the reason I started taking it in the morning right away. I don't like my sleep interrupted! I also mentioned I had some days of total libido loss/limp noodle and they went away.


Yeah, I remember you wrote about it. I had an erection all of the sudden in the morning when I was trying to sleep, I think it's a lot going on in my brain and body now that I have resumed my exercise routine and all, (nor-)adrenalin may play a part in this. It's incredible how hard it is to not fall asleep when the fatigue sets in, I haven't come up with a solution to this yet.



kehcorpz said:


> Hell, what I noticed last night is funny. So I did a crazy workout and I was a bit tired after but it was just a typical tiredness after your workout which went away and was replaced with euphoria. I was fine the rest of the day too. Later I got to fapping somehow and had my orgasm. The orgasm was freaking great and after that I became sooo exhausted combined with the orgasm euphoria. I honestly had to lay down in bed and laid there for an hour and a half. I tried getting up several times but was soo tired. I didn't even have it in me to go check my blood pressure. So I just decided to after that hour and a half to drink a teaspoon of salt. Sure enough slowly I started becoming normal again. It's weird if orgasm causes blood pressure drop. Will have to actually check sometime as it's just a theory based off the salt working. It could have also been coincidence though.


But you managed to stay awake the whole time? Today's workout went better than the last one, and I also feel a little euphoric now, more alert. I certainly are better those days I exercise vs those days I just watch TV, not so surprising perhaps, but when the depression is worse I can become dysphoric from exercise. Maybe the activity in the sympathetic nervous system after an orgasm decreases a little, lowering blood pressure and making you feel a little tired.



kehcorpz said:


> I just don't want to be at a girls after 1 session fall asleep on her lol. Usually i'm a multiple session kind of guy. Guess after I orgasm i'll be like "brb gotta have some salt water in the kitchen" hopefully she doesn't say "try this stuff, it tastes salty....."


lol, this puts pictures in my head I'm not comfortable with. Maybe you could have one of those salt stones that horses lick, hanging from the ceiling in your bedroom. I'm sure the girl wouldn't wonder why you were licking it like crazy after each orgasm 

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Yeah, I remember you wrote about it. I had an erection all of the sudden in the morning when I was trying to sleep, I think it's a lot going on in my brain and body now that I have resumed my exercise routine and all, (nor-)adrenalin may play a part in this. It's incredible how hard it is to not fall asleep when the fatigue sets in, I haven't come up with a solution to this yet.
> 
> But you managed to stay awake the whole time? Today's workout went better than the last one, and I also feel a little euphoric now, more alert. I certainly are better those days I exercise vs those days I just watch TV, not so surprising perhaps, but when the depression is worse I can become dysphoric from exercise. Maybe the activity in the sympathetic nervous system after an orgasm decreases a little, lowering blood pressure and making you feel a little tired.


Yah I stay awake. It's like I'm halfway asleep but not quite there. More just thinking about stuff and seems mind/body are still getting rest though. Maybe it's because I usually get a full 8 hours of sleep nightly. Last night I slept about 8 and a half hours. But yah I think if you can just get that schedule shifted and always take them at the same time in the morning maybe it should help. I still take sleeping aid, don't know if I would be able to sleep without them. It's just something I've always done. Melatonin every night at the same time has always been a big one for me as it keeps my circadian rhythm the same. The 7.5mg benadryl was simply added to lower the zopiclone. I could probably completely go off the zopiclone, have to try it sometime. I just hate breaking my sleeping schedule haha.



depressed77 said:


> lol, this puts pictures in my head I'm not comfortable with. Maybe you could have one of those salt stones that horses lick, hanging from the ceiling in your bedroom. I'm sure the girl wouldn't wonder why you were licking it like crazy after each orgasm
> 
> /depressed77


That would be hilarious, like some sort of ritual. She'd probably think I'm some serial killer lol.

EDIT: Oh and I need my off-days! I would go insane doing that workout constantly. I do feel a bit better on workout days, more likely because of the euphoria that follows. But other than that I don't really feel bad on non-workout days. I mean doing something is definitely better than sitting around doing nothing all day. As time goes on and my anhedonia remits I should be more productive. Anything that gives reward will make the day much better. Even playing video games


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

@kehcorpz I went to the pharmacy and bought melatonin, 1mg pills. Will try one tonight.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> @kehcorpz I went to the pharmacy and bought melatonin, 1mg pills. Will try one tonight.
> 
> /depressed77


Sweet! You have to consistently take them daily at the same time to see the real results. 3mg is usually the dose used, but yah you can see if 1mg does it as honestly I only use 0.75mg at this point heh.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I'm gonna be on Parnate in a month or so. Does that mean I'll need something for sleep too, or is that just because you guys are just naturally cruddy sleep havers?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Jawi96 said:


> I'm gonna be on Parnate in a month or so. Does that mean I'll need something for sleep too, or is that just because you guys are just naturally cruddy sleep havers?


Chances are you will. Although I always had trouble falling asleep.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah so today I had the big O and i never got tired. It must have been a coincidence. Possibly because I did a hardcore workout prior to it and today was an off day? Tomorrow I do a workout, maybe if I end up with a big O, I can see if that's it. No promises though.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah so today I had the big O and i never got tired. It must have been a coincidence. Possibly because I did a hardcore workout prior to it and today was an off day? Tomorrow I do a workout, maybe if I end up with a big O, I can see if that's it. No promises though.


Hmm.. it may be a coincidence. Before bedtime yesterday my sexual ability was back to baseline, i.e. no problem with erection but a little delayed orgasm. I didn't notice any tiredness.

Also, I took melatonin, and it may be a coincidence, or simply the fact I avoided naps yesterday (plus a heavy workout), but I fell asleep between 1-2am. I went to bed a little after midnight. The best part is I woke up 7:15 naturally with uninterrupted sleep and I felt rested, I went up almost immediately and I'm now drinking coffee and I feel rather good.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Hmm.. it may be a coincidence. Before bedtime yesterday my sexual ability was back to baseline, i.e. no problem with erection but a little delayed orgasm. I didn't notice any tiredness.
> 
> Also, I took melatonin, and it may be a coincidence, or simply the fact I avoided naps yesterday (plus a heavy workout), but I fell asleep between 1-2am. I went to bed a little after midnight. The best part is I woke up 7:15 naturally with uninterrupted sleep and I felt rested, I went up almost immediately and I'm now drinking coffee and I feel rather good.
> 
> /depressed77


That's awesome hope it keeps happening. Although you may need to adjust again to 40mg lol. I'm going 50mg on Sunday.

I've been using melatonin for a long time. It helped but eventually I needed something more powerful. I did stop melatonin for a while and only used mirtazapine. Once I stopped mirtazapine went back to melatonin and what i'm using now. I think melatonin alone can help but combined with other stuff it's ACE! heh


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> That's awesome hope it keeps happening. Although you may need to adjust again to 40mg lol. I'm going 50mg on Sunday.
> 
> I've been using melatonin for a long time. It helped but eventually I needed something more powerful. I did stop melatonin for a while and only used mirtazapine. Once I stopped mirtazapine went back to melatonin and what i'm using now. I think melatonin alone can help but combined with other stuff it's ACE! heh


Hopefully it will keep working. How I feel this weekend and in the beginning of next week will decide if I will increase to 40mg on Wednesday. Although the strength to workout is back and I got up early this morning, there has to be some significant improvement on anhedonia if I decide to stay on 30mg. Also, I think the anxiolytic effect could be better, so from how it looks now, I will increase.
It's a 33% increase, I wonder how that translates to increases in side effects, hopefully not too much.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Hopefully it will keep working. How I feel this weekend and in the beginning of next week will decide if I will increase to 40mg on Wednesday. Although the strength to workout is back and I got up early this morning, there has to be some significant improvement on anhedonia if I decide to stay on 30mg. Also, I think the anxiolytic effect could be better, so from how it looks now, I will increase.
> It's a 33% increase, I wonder how that translates to increases in side effects, hopefully not too much.
> 
> /depressed77


Nice, yah this stuff takes time to work. Like each dose bump really starts to show some extra benefits around day 15-25 area for me. I mean 40mg gave a mood boost pretty quickly but just other stuff like the recent start of working out and having more motivation took a bit. I'm guessing same goes for 50mg. I can't wait to see what that does! I'll probably end up on 60mg. Once at 60mg I'm giving it a full 3 months. Though my guess is that I won't need to seeing how even the 40mg has added some benefits already.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Day [email protected]

Met my doc today and he had nothing against increasing the dosage to 40mg. At evenings when tranyl itself is no longer affecting BP, it's consistently around 114/63, these were the actual values taken about the same time a few days apart. I took 30mg with breakfast and 10mg an hour later, tomorrow I will take 20mg before breakfast and 20mg after and see how it works. Although the day has been pretty good I can feel some tiredness now, a nap would be nice, but I hope I can resist that.
I added 1mg melatonin about a week ago which seems todo something. My doc gave me prescripted melatonin at 3mg in case I need more for my sleep. He seemed surprised that 1mg is sold OTC. My libido is high and very little sexual dysfunction, orgasm is a little delayed. That's great. Anxiety is under control but the anhedonia is still there.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Cool man!

I had some drops in BP with 50mg. It happens when I start a new dose though. Yesterday I worked out was fine again and then had a big O at around 4:30pm and got super tired again lol. Guess since I had a dose increase I will need to get used to it. Yah I can't even do a 2nd dosage an hour or 2 later, I will get tired. The only way that works for me is like right while i'm still in bed and wake up take down all of my pills and drink a bunch of water. Weird how dual dosing doesn't work for me. I don't mind though it's actually way easier that way. 

I've been much more active these days with workouts and just doing fix ups and such around house/cars. Had to change my mom's brake pads the other day, it was a pain because of the bolts on the calipers but ended up doing it and all went smooth heh. My workouts have also gone a little crazier with dropping the amount of rest between supersets from 120 seconds to 90 seconds. You'd think it wouldn't make much of a difference but in those situations every second of rest counts hehe. The dose increase definitely gave me some sun sensitivity the other day. Was out on roof and the sun shining off shingles and all made me super dizzy and everything just looked so bright. Had to stand there for a moment and I guess the ol' nogging got used to it.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Cool man!
> 
> I had some drops in BP with 50mg. It happens when I start a new dose though. Yesterday I worked out was fine again and then had a big O at around 4:30pm and got super tired again lol. Guess since I had a dose increase I will need to get used to it. Yah I can't even do a 2nd dosage an hour or 2 later, I will get tired. The only way that works for me is like right while i'm still in bed and wake up take down all of my pills and drink a bunch of water. Weird how dual dosing doesn't work for me. I don't mind though it's actually way easier that way.
> 
> I've been much more active these days with workouts and just doing fix ups and such around house/cars. Had to change my mom's brake pads the other day, it was a pain because of the bolts on the calipers but ended up doing it and all went smooth heh. My workouts have also gone a little crazier with dropping the amount of rest between supersets from 120 seconds to 90 seconds. You'd think it wouldn't make much of a difference but in those situations every second of rest counts hehe. The dose increase definitely gave me some sun sensitivity the other day. Was out on roof and the sun shining off shingles and all made me super dizzy and everything just looked so bright. Had to stand there for a moment and I guess the ol' nogging got used to it.


How is your anhedonia? I have been more social the last days, it's like I'm seeking contact, want to talk. Thinking of scheduling an appointment with my therapist, who I haven't seen in months, just for the company, lol. My libido has certainly increased too. I think I will hit the gym today, although I could take a rest day, my legs are a little sore.
I took 2mg of melatonin last night and I have slept like a baby. Have a good day.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> How is your anhedonia? I have been more social the last days, it's like I'm seeking contact, want to talk. Thinking of scheduling an appointment with my therapist, who I haven't seen in months, just for the company, lol. My libido has certainly increased too. I think I will hit the gym today, although I could take a rest day, my legs are a little sore.
> I took 2mg of melatonin last night and I have slept like a baby. Have a good day.
> 
> /depressed77


Yah i'm the same with seeking social contact! I'm like going down to talk to my parents for no reason which I never did before lol. I talk to like cashiers and stuff at stores. Social anhedonia seems to have gotten better so has the training anhedonia and of course improved libido. Most things like reward from food, warmth and all that has improved. I'm going to test video games sometime. I don't anticipate reward from them at this point, but possible if I force myself to play them I will like them and my brain will learn to anticipate it? My mood is freaking awesome these days. I'm like dancing around while brushing teeth and stuff hah.

Only problems are constipation which could be transient with new dose and starting to get some sleep troubles too. Mostly waking up constantly, but today woke up at 4am and couldn't sleep. At least I had a bowel movement though but I did take a laxative yesterday hehe. Granted I may also be training too hard which could account for the wakings. But I'll keep training hard cuz I love it haah.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah i'm the same with seeking social contact! I'm like going down to talk to my parents for no reason which I never did before lol. I talk to like cashiers and stuff at stores. Social anhedonia seems to have gotten better so has the training anhedonia and of course improved libido. Most things like reward from food, warmth and all that has improved. I'm going to test video games sometime. I don't anticipate reward from them at this point, but possible if I force myself to play them I will like them and my brain will learn to anticipate it? My mood is freaking awesome these days. I'm like dancing around while brushing teeth and stuff hah.
> 
> Only problems are constipation which could be transient with new dose and starting to get some sleep troubles too. Mostly waking up constantly, but today woke up at 4am and couldn't sleep. At least I had a bowel movement though but I did take a laxative yesterday hehe. Granted I may also be training too hard which could account for the wakings. But I'll keep training hard cuz I love it haah.


Nice to hear. I'm on my way to a cafe to get some coffee and just watch people, my friends are working so I will have to go alone. It's ok, I actually want to be around people, that's interesting. I'm much more relaxed in the gym. Yeah, I also have some constipation, but I'm not doing anything about it yet, it's still working it's just slower.
Yes, I think you should force yourself to do it. That's what I have to do to get to the gym, bet it's much better once I'm there and have started working out, not to mention afterwards. Btw, I set three new records today out of six leg exercises  I think your workout shouldn't affect your sleep negatively unless you do it late in the evening, tried more melatonin?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Nice to hear. I'm on my way to a cafe to get some coffee and just watch people, my friends are working so I will have to go alone. It's ok, I actually want to be around people, that's interesting. I'm much more relaxed in the gym. Yeah, I also have some constipation, but I'm not doing anything about it yet, it's still working it's just slower.
> Yes, I think you should force yourself to do it. That's what I have to do to get to the gym, bet it's much better once I'm there and have started working out, not to mention afterwards. Btw, I set three new records today out of six leg exercises  I think your workout shouldn't affect your sleep negatively unless you do it late in the evening, tried more melatonin?
> 
> /depressed77


That's awesome! I actually dealt with a lot yesterday because parents cars broke down and had to deal with tow/repair shops and all that bs. It was easy peasy.

Sorry must have said it wrong. I don't really force myself because now I look forward to the euphoria every time. It's freaking awesome. I just mean if my body was to be dying from too much training i'd still be forcing myself in that situation haha. But I don't think it was overtraining as today I slept a full 8 hours and I had an awesome poop this morning. And I feel sooo damn good. Might be illegal to feel this good in some places.

Sweet on the record, leg exercises are my favourites. I'm a huge fan of Squats and deadlifts hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> That's awesome! I actually dealt with a lot yesterday because parents cars broke down and had to deal with tow/repair shops and all that bs. It was easy peasy.
> 
> Sorry must have said it wrong. I don't really force myself because now I look forward to the euphoria every time. It's freaking awesome. I just mean if my body was to be dying from too much training i'd still be forcing myself in that situation haha. But I don't think it was overtraining as today I slept a full 8 hours and I had an awesome poop this morning. And I feel sooo damn good. Might be illegal to feel this good in some places.
> 
> Sweet on the record, leg exercises are my favourites. I'm a huge fan of Squats and deadlifts hehe.


It's those small things that come sneaking. Like, I have scheduled things to do for tonight and for tomorrow. Also, I appreciate music, I appreciate talking to people. Did you take more melatonin or did you sleep well anyway? I go up 10am everyday now which is an improvement, and go to sleep about 1am, I have slept well since I started melatonin. I think soon it's time to go up earlier like 8 or 9am. 
I have pain in my lower back, it's from the summer when I just lay on the sofa. I'm working up the strength but deadlift is one of exercises I struggle with, my technique has always been poor with this exercise, it's a great exercise and I scheduled an appointment with my PT in June to have her show me what I'm doing wrong or atleast what I could do better but then I got worse and had to cancel. Now I feel it's time again, but I don't think I can afford it this month though.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> It's those small things that come sneaking. Like, I have scheduled things to do for tonight and for tomorrow. Also, I appreciate music, I appreciate talking to people. Did you take more melatonin or did you sleep well anyway? I go up 10am everyday now which is an improvement, and go to sleep about 1am, I have slept well since I started melatonin. I think soon it's time to go up earlier like 8 or 9am.
> I have pain in my lower back, it's from the summer when I just lay on the sofa. I'm working up the strength but deadlift is one of exercises I struggle with, my technique has always been poor with this exercise, it's a great exercise and I scheduled an appointment with my PT in June to have her show me what I'm doing wrong or atleast what I could do better but then I got worse and had to cancel. Now I feel it's time again, but I don't think I can afford it this month though.
> 
> /depressed77


Nah I try to avoid raising the doses on my sleeping aids. My theory is if they worked before they should continue working. And of course they did work! It's something transient that happens with Parnate to me. In fact, anytime you increase dosage and weird things happen, just wait it out hehe.

That's why I like melatonin it will let you reset your schedule. You just gotta make sure not to F it up. I don't get people who feel the need to stay up late, you can do the same things late as you can early hah. Other than party of course, but that's a weekend thing anyways. I've actually preferred it since I became an early bird. It just feels more natural.

Yah deadlifts you have to watch it with. Man I remember I used to do like 500lbs+ in college. I would use wrist straps though as I just never had the grip strength to hold something like that. I trained grip too but I just can't really gain much muscle in the wrists/hands hah. My forearms always were pretty small too so it just made my arms look that much bigger due to the lack of symmetry there haha.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

Three weeks at 40mg

No improvement in anhedonia. Some constipation, bp issues and tiredness from the pills. I think, raising the dosage would only increase the side effects at this point, wondering if I would be better off at 30mg. I slept past noon today, a total of 10 hours. I do workout but it's hard to find the motivation.
My brother said I seem more alert, another person that I was more 'present', and sure, I talk more and am more social. Been thinking of augmenting tranyl with something, Lamictal for instance. What do you think? I'm stuck here and out of ideas really.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Three weeks at 40mg
> 
> No improvement in anhedonia. Some constipation, bp issues and tiredness from the pills. I think, raising the dosage would only increase the side effects at this point, wondering if I would be better off at 30mg. I slept past noon today, a total of 10 hours. I do workout but it's hard to find the motivation.
> My brother said I seem more alert, another person that I was more 'present', and sure, I talk more and am more social. Been thinking of augmenting tranyl with something, Lamictal for instance. What do you think? I'm stuck here and out of ideas really.
> ...


I think 50mg definitely helped more in the anhedonia realm. In fact, I'm playing video games again. Here's something though, it's like parnate puts your brain into learning mode and you have to force yourself to do things you previously loved, and you will love them and eventually your brain learns to anticipate their love. At least that's how it was with video games for me. I played a few times enjoying myself and now i actually feel anticipatory reward thinking about playing video games without actually doing it and so it makes me want to play them. Don't know if 40mg will do the same for you but you could try that. Most side effects abate over a time period of 3 months man. It's a long time but that's how it is. Even with Nardil people wait long before side effects get better. So 3 weeks is not really long enough to deal with the side effects. What these drugs do is a huge change don't expect to adapt quickly.

I am probably an exception when it comes to this stuff so don't look at me and my lack of side effects or how fast they disappear. Anyways, I would go all the way to 60mg, I don't think the side effects would get that much worse and they would have the same level of chance to subside as on 40mg. I'm actually going to 60mg this weekend.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I think 50mg definitely helped more in the anhedonia realm. In fact, I'm playing video games again. Here's something though, it's like parnate puts your brain into learning mode and you have to force yourself to do things you previously loved, and you will love them and eventually your brain learns to anticipate their love. At least that's how it was with video games for me. I played a few times enjoying myself and now i actually feel anticipatory reward thinking about playing video games without actually doing it and so it makes me want to play them. Don't know if 40mg will do the same for you but you could try that. Most side effects abate over a time period of 3 months man. It's a long time but that's how it is. Even with Nardil people wait long before side effects get better. So 3 weeks is not really long enough to deal with the side effects. What these drugs do is a huge change don't expect to adapt quickly.
> 
> I am probably an exception when it comes to this stuff so don't look at me and my lack of side effects or how fast they disappear. Anyways, I would go all the way to 60mg, I don't think the side effects would get that much worse and they would have the same level of chance to subside as on 40mg. I'm actually going to 60mg this weekend.


Okay, thanks for the input. You don't think augmenting with Lamictal at this point would be a good idea? I can give 40mg more time if there's a reason to believe it will help, but I think I need to let the side effects subside a little before going up to 50mg. Will you still take the whole dose at the same time?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Okay, thanks for the input. You don't think augmenting with Lamictal at this point would be a good idea? I can give 40mg more time if there's a reason to believe it will help, but I think I need to let the side effects subside a little before going up to 50mg. Will you still take the whole dose at the same time?
> 
> /depressed77


I don't really know what you expect lamictal to do though. I mean does it have some magic side effect taking away skills? It can maybe help if you still have depression. Though if that's the case just go up to 50mg. And yah I still take it all at once in the morning. What about you? You could change your dosing if you want to play around. I've read on other forums the fatigue takes a while to go away, usually does. If not people change their dosing to reflect when they get the fatigue. So if you get it 5 hours later, they take it 5 hours before bed, etc. Plus you can always take caffeine pills. Don't drink coffee though because it has compounds that make anhedonia worse. I actually only drink 1 small cup in the morning now. I have cocoa powder throughout the day to get my perk. But yah i heard people using caffeine pills for both the bp/fatigue. You said the bp was starting to get better, is this still not the case? I know mine was a bit messed on the 50mg but a month later it's pretty much back to normal. Although there were the changes like eliminating coffee and stuff, dunno how much that impacts me hehe.

I still get a spike in BP after taking the med. Today it spiked to 158/99 but once again that's normal and subsides.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I don't really know what you expect lamictal to do though. I mean does it have some magic side effect taking away skills? It can maybe help if you still have depression. Though if that's the case just go up to 50mg. And yah I still take it all at once in the morning. What about you? You could change your dosing if you want to play around. I've read on other forums the fatigue takes a while to go away, usually does. If not people change their dosing to reflect when they get the fatigue. So if you get it 5 hours later, they take it 5 hours before bed, etc. Plus you can always take caffeine pills. Don't drink coffee though because it has compounds that make anhedonia worse. I actually only drink 1 small cup in the morning now. I have cocoa powder throughout the day to get my perk. But yah i heard people using caffeine pills for both the bp/fatigue. You said the bp was starting to get better, is this still not the case? I know mine was a bit messed on the 50mg but a month later it's pretty much back to normal. Although there were the changes like eliminating coffee and stuff, dunno how much that impacts me hehe.
> 
> I still get a spike in BP after taking the med. Today it spiked to 158/99 but once again that's normal and subsides.


I was thinking Lamictal could help with depression, it can be activating. I had 147/86 one hour after 40mg, I haven't measured for a while what it is in the evening but since a few days, problems with orthostatic hypotension started to emerge again, don't know where that came from. Will do a few measurements throughout the day but I suspect it's lower again, yesterday I was very light headed and almost fainted when I got up from the couch, took some salt after that 'incident'. The fatigue today is not that bad, so far at least.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I was thinking Lamictal could help with depression, it can be activating. I had 147/86 one hour after 40mg, I haven't measured for a while what it is in the evening but since a few days, problems with orthostatic hypotension started to emerge again, don't know where that came from. Will do a few measurements throughout the day but I suspect it's lower again, yesterday I was very light headed and almost fainted when I got up from the couch, took some salt after that 'incident'. The fatigue today is not that bad, so far at least.
> 
> /depressed77


I've had that weird light headed feeling a couple of times. I thought it was that sun sensitivity but it has come by before. And it doesn't need me to stand up, i'll be standing and everything in my vision just gets weird, but it passes so whatever. I don't get to the point of fainting, it just feels like what you may experience if you were fainting in the vision front. Although I haven't had it happen in a while now that i'm a month into 50mg.

My suggestion would be to try to cure your problems like depression etc, first and then worry about the side effects. If you give it 3 months on a stable dose and they are still there then you start to make plans to get rid of the side effects, it may be as simple as adding an NRI or caffeine pills or changing dosing timing.

So if you still feel you have depression just go to 50mg, that dose was a huge help with depression for me. Most people on forums usually started noticing the most benefits 40-60mg range. Some are even on a way higher dose. Keep in mind that no matter what dose you are on, you will have to wait 3 months to really be sure if the side effects go away. So that's why you should focus on benefits first as you can tell within a month usually if things are benefiting you, at least that's how it was with me. And once you have all the benefits you then just stay on the dose and it's a waiting game. If you wait 3 months on a lower dose that doesn't give you the full benefits you may once again have to wait another 3 months on a higher dose and then again another 3 months. That's a lot of time hah. And yah more benefits can come out of those 3 months, sure, but you won't know. So it's always best to reach the top end like 60mg and then wait out the 3 months both for side effects and possible extra benefits.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I've had that weird light headed feeling a couple of times. I thought it was that sun sensitivity but it has come by before. And it doesn't need me to stand up, i'll be standing and everything in my vision just gets weird, but it passes so whatever. I don't get to the point of fainting, it just feels like what you may experience if you were fainting in the vision front. Although I haven't had it happen in a while now that i'm a month into 50mg.
> 
> My suggestion would be to try to cure your problems like depression etc, first and then worry about the side effects. If you give it 3 months on a stable dose and they are still there then you start to make plans to get rid of the side effects, it may be as simple as adding an NRI or caffeine pills or changing dosing timing.
> 
> So if you still feel you have depression just go to 50mg, that dose was a huge help with depression for me. Most people on forums usually started noticing the most benefits 40-60mg range. Some are even on a way higher dose. Keep in mind that no matter what dose you are on, you will have to wait 3 months to really be sure if the side effects go away. So that's why you should focus on benefits first as you can tell within a month usually if things are benefiting you, at least that's how it was with me. And once you have all the benefits you then just stay on the dose and it's a waiting game. If you wait 3 months on a lower dose that doesn't give you the full benefits you may once again have to wait another 3 months on a higher dose and then again another 3 months. That's a lot of time hah. And yah more benefits can come out of those 3 months, sure, but you won't know. So it's always best to reach the top end like 60mg and then wait out the 3 months both for side effects and possible extra benefits.


Okay, well I will stay at 40mg till I see my doc next week, then we can decide, by then it has been a month. My dad came over for coffee and I feel a little more energetic now, not so tired. It has been several days I have felt I could actually manage to do some work, and they have this system here where you can do "work training". I'm gonna call my therapist tomorrow and ask her about this, she brought it up last time I saw her but I turned it down at that time.
Sometimes I feel like the improvements are maybe so gradual that I don't realize that they are there, but even thinking of doing some work a few hours a day is a huge improvement.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Cool, if you look at my posts, 50mg definitely is the one that started obliterating depression for me. Granted i'm sure 60 will do even better hah.

Yah the coffee thing is weird. Because usually it won't touch bp, check for yourself. The reason is you need quite a lot of caffeine to start working on norepinephrine. So that's why caffeine pills are the better solution. And you can figure out how much you need to take to keep your bp levels stable. I used to take 200mg caffeine pills back in the day heh. Anyways, this seems to be a popular one among fatigue/bp sufferers.

The improvements definitely are gradual. I always notice the most near the end of the month. So maybe they all accumulated over that time. It's a slow acting process because like for my anhedonia it started off with small things like enjoying a warm shower, then progressed to bigger things like better orgasms, and feeling euphoria after training and now i've even gotten video games back! hah.

Oh and one more thing. If you notice your BP lowering, even if you are tired try forcing yourself to go for a jog or get a treadmill or something. I know my mom had low bp and was tired before and going on her bike would help her get it back to normal.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Hey, do you take caffeine pills just so you can keep taking something remotely like Coffee, or does it serve an actual purpose? I only drink water, but I can start on what you're doing if you think it'll help


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