# Missing Witchy Women



## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

(You may find this thread a bit strange or otherwise just a little baffling and confusing, but...)

Didn't know where to put this thread: doesn't quite fit into 'Coping With Anxiety', nor in the Off Topic sections, and it doesn't quite make it into the Gay and Lesbian thread. 

But every now and then I remember back to high school and ...yeah I know how I go on about how things were "so much better back then", but they kind of were. And then it occurs to me every so often that part of the reason why things were so much better than for me was because I was surrounded by nasty girls.

There's just something about the combat that does good things to me. It's like it strengthens something within me. Maybe because I'm an Aries Aries Rising, I just seem to get something fundamentally positive from being in an all-out conflict with others. 

Now this may sound damning, but I can only observe the positive effect of being picked-on and attacked by others. 

After high school I have to say that it's been mostly men who I've been picked-on by. Pretty much the immature boy-man type, too. And whilst this does have a good effect on me, sharpening my sense of where I stand, the positive effect takes a little longer to sink in. With women it just seems different.

I figure that my main problem has always had to do with having a repressed masculine side; by which I am not referring solely to the sexual side of one's personality but to everything. Like I am slightly passive and lacking in assertiveness. And yet, there is a latent masculine assertiveness and independence sort of bursting to come-out.

I was always a little puzzled when for instance me sister used to say: "Elisa has the potential to be a real *****, if only..." Or when my year eleven English teacher wanted the class to recite lines of Shakespeare's 'Macbeth' and said that for the role of Lady MacBeth she required a girl who was really *****y; and she chose me and another lass. ...I remembered thinking: "But I'm nice". 

Yet, apparently many people seem to have sensed this side of me whilst I was all the while slightly oblivious to it's existing within me. 

And *****y girls did something really positive for me. They gave me a sense of place. After high school people just got to nice or too civilized. And there's too little of that ganging-up and tearing-apart that women to with their words.
...I miss it :cry ...and I'm not just saying it!

I have to say that when it comes to acts of hate, if you're able to see it, there is a real element of love in them. ...This may sound sado-masochistic, but it isn't necessarily the case. Just like for example, how a person with whom there is an instant dislike, later takes a liking for you.

Anyhow, I just miss such things. And I think that women are kinder or otherwise better skilled at bringing-out the tough side in me. And it's a little too repressed with me: needs bringing out more. That's why I've been trying to remember what I was like back in the days of those wonderful cat fights.

A few years ago, I had a friend who'd habitually steal other women's men and even took to taking a tally. My more placid Catholic school girl friends warned me not to hang around with her. And one day as she was talking about a documentary on harems, she was explaining of how the Sultan had thousands of women with which to mate. But that, nonetheless, the 'top women' had authority over the 'lower women'. And as she was saying this, when she said 'top women' she gestured towards herself, and as she said 'lower women' she gestured towards me!
...It was so hilarious. Particularly the unconscious way with which she did this. And I remember thinking how absolutely gorgeous she was. I even stopped her to show her what she had just done.
Should I be intimidated or threatened by such a power play? ...Why would I bother when it's so thoroughly amusing and -well, just plain gorgeous! ...and maybe you think this sounds a little gay: but a part of me just wanted to kiss her for saying it!!

Maybe it's because I'm an Aries, but I miss the combat!!!!!! I really do. :mushy :eyes :eyes .... :sigh


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Interestingly, I kinda know what you're talking about. Sometimes I miss conflict and drama. This is a really interesting topic; I wish I had more time to think/post about it tonight. Maybe that's why I like to "stir the pot" a bit, both on here and regular life.


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## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

I don't miss women that I'll say are jerks because I don't really like the word *****y. Jerks in general I get tired of and don't want to be around them. Someone that no matter how or when you approach them they treat you like crap or those that treat you like crap most of the time I can't take. It's like they see you as having no value.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

It is FUN and USEFUL to be challenged, to be stimulated, to be kept on your toes. Learning and borrowing from "strategic" people is really how we learn to get the things we want. Every women has a little of the ***** element in her, and I kinda like that if it's not the overriding personality trait. It lets me know she's not a doormat.

The movie 300 showed young Spartan boys going thru "man" training from the age of 12 to manhood. And although some of them surely died in this training, it looked attractive to me. To be in a group of peers pushing you to develop and mature and be clever is interesting. You discover who your comrades are, who your enemies are, how you "work" and "think". To have purpose and to be pushed to the limits of your skills and senses is exciting, or it sounds exciting. So many days, life is too placid. Your old gf reminded of how incredibly interesting it is to me to try to attract women that I like. The gaming element of it is exciting, and it should be. Although I've never been one to do mean things like break people up, even though recently I had a chance to do something with someone I liked. I declined b/c I knew she had a bf. Am I being too nice? I might be, but I believe in Karma. We all need a "challenge" in our life, in our relationships, that fits us. I like a woman who is a little stubborn, but smart. Because then you have a chance thru interracting, give and take, to persuade, effect and DOMINATE...(just kidding about the dominate part). And turnabout is fairplay...in a relationship, teach me, effect me, challenge me to think and my interest is piqued. And that makes more interesting in return.

As for love and hate, they are definitely two sides of the same coin. Chrissy Hynde wasn't lying when she sang, "it's a thin line between love and hate".

I wish I could disagree with you more to offer some stimulating "pushback", but not in this thread.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Mostly I find that my anxiety takes hold in situations that are mundane. But when my enemy appears, then at least my fear is of something that I can see.

So I am probably a bit of an adrenaline junkie. I seem to have anxiety in situations that are everyday stressful, and on the otherhand, tend to do well or even quite well at more stressful things; anything from being at a party, a job interview (I tend to impress people easily); even giving a speech in front of a large group of people -sometimes, I've found it almost intoxicating a thing to do.

So, for me, sense of place has a lot to do with things. Probably my imagination is much much scarier than reality. And when a real life scary demon doesn't pop-up, for some reason my mind must invent one and it ususally creates something much worse than reality every could.


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

I can relate to what you're saying...as a guy, there are certain types of females who bring it out of me...even ones who are just friends or even family members who have that "challenging" attitude where they bluntly say whatever is on their mind, while most people are too polite to say it.

The difference for me is that it doesn't work when it comes from a girl I like. In the past, if a girl I was attracted to rejected me, it just hurt. There was virtually nothing positive coming out of it.

But when it comes from a girl who I know respects me or feels like a companion to me, then it's more fun to banter back. I don't know if female/male has anything to do with it...girls tend to be more nosy sometimes so they will blurt something out...while guys tend to be more distant/respectful, atleast to me.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

find an office job full of women. drama galore


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## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

or go to a beauty school


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*



nubly said:


> find an office job full of women. drama galore


That's funny, because I have a relative who works with all women and who is male. He says that it is hell!!


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*



Strength said:


> I can relate to what you're saying...as a guy, there are certain types of females who bring it out of me...even ones who are just friends or even family members who have that "challenging" attitude where they bluntly say whatever is on their mind, while most people are too polite to say it.
> 
> The difference for me is that it doesn't work when it comes from a girl I like. In the past, if a girl I was attracted to rejected me, it just hurt. There was virtually nothing positive coming out of it.
> 
> But when it comes from a girl who I know respects me or feels like a companion to me, then it's more fun to banter back. I don't know if female/male has anything to do with it...girls tend to be more nosy sometimes so they will blurt something out...while guys tend to be more distant/respectful, atleast to me.


My advice in such situations would be to learn to appreciate differing view points. When I've liked men who didn't like me, as much as it hurt, I found out from enough experience that the reason for my feelings not being reciprocated had a lot to do with the fact that I was only seeing them in a certain light.

Psychologists would call such a thing "projection". All people do it and many relationships (most I'd say) are founded on this.

People tend to only 'know' certain aspects of themselves and they are likewise blind to all of another person as well.

What this basically means is that, if you like someone, it is guaranteed that in "another light" they would like you back. If they do not it is because one of the pair, however, usually it is both, doesn't see all sides to things and to themselves and others. People see what they are ready for at that particular time.

The thing to take from this understanding is to no-longer feel a need for feelings to be reciprocated. simply know that life gurantees that they are. Also, however, know that there is more to the story and more that is missing. And that you yourself are likely to only see certain parts to people and are missing others. If you saw more of who people are, seeing more of yourself, your feelings are likely to be less intense and less subject to feeling hurt and rejected. And to some extent, the characteristic of your feelings for someone will have changed. For example, it can be said that there are many forms of love -some more intense, some with a more dynamic quality of mixed emotions.

I figure that it is good to try to aim for having 'mixed emotions'. The reason being that people are really dynamic and complicated and it is best, I think, to appreciate as much as possible about yourself and about others; as opposed to getting only some of the full picture.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Ruby, 
I had a minor epiphany today because of your past mentionings of the masculine/feminine influence on character. It really has helped me understand and restrategize my approach to someone I like. Basically I realized that my style, overly influenced by the feminine, is in conflict with her style which is overly influenced by the masculine, ie her need for security and strength. This doesn't mean that I'm out to change my personality or anything, but to add to it by expressing more of the stereotypical masculine influences. Specifically, not all women want a man to be extremely patient when it comes to sex and initiating. (this is why I passed on or did not recognize some great opportunities in the past, my feminine influence said "wait and be a good boy".) Not all women want to become soulmates before having a good shag. And not all women want their men to be overly expressive emotionally and pay loads of attention to them all the time. I dont' want to go into specifics b/c she sometimes visits this board. But I believe strongly in our potential and if learning some forgotten "man skills" can increase my desirability, what the heck!? It's no worse than a woman pretending to like football, lol. And, I'm going to dispense with the emoting. Enough emoting already!!! Anyway, thanks again for your insights and sharing. Your are worth your weight in Foster's.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

...Worth my wait in Fosters!!!! ...what the hell does that mean!!
Other than you're desire to get alcohol poisoning!!

Seriously though, I've had considerable trouble 'getting in touch with my masculine side'. (Amateur) Dream analysis basically told me that I used to even hate my masculine side, I was that repressed. (Interesting though, how some macho men if anything actually seemed to find such a thing extra appealing.)

Anyhow, the advice was that I recognise masculine aspects of my self that I disown and project onto a member of the opposite sex; resulting in my either loving or hating them (the thin line between the polarities of love and hate being a little more delicate for me than it is for most people).

It was rather interesting too. I was fixated with the story of Gone With the Wind as many young women are. And the story is largely about chasing after someone, and someone else chasing after you. This to me is just about nt being aware of all aspects of yourself. People do this projecting all the time. It is actually rather a challenge to not do this. It's why for example, people often segregate aspects of their love life; living a 'shadow' sex/love life. The classic example of which is men who keep the 'little woman' at home, whilst going off every so often to a mistress. (European men seem almost to consider this normal.)

There was even a very good book written about such a thing, in which this missing component of mutual selves was referred to as "The Other". Whether this be 'the other' woman or 'the other' man.

Anyhow, I've found that this is an on-going story. But to some extent I have reached a good level of individuation regarding my sexuality. -Not bad for a girl who was quite out of touch with her masculine side. And ever since I made the very fortunate unlucky discovery that I actually had a masculine side (which once upon a time I was highly ignorant even existed) I was then very naturally inclined towards integrating it more with my overall personality.
I even believe that I intuitively recognised such a need even whilst I was pursuing some Alpha male -I'd say to my self, "I would actually be truly happy simply being his friend".

In any case, it is interesting that throughout the whole emotional rollercoaster ride that was my infatuation with this guy I knew in my early twenties - as a result of encountering him and the effect it had on me emotionally (strange how people you can know fairly little can nonetheless effect you so much more than people you've "been closer" with) I actually started to naturally take on certain characteristics of his personality. Almost as if he was all along a part of my own nature.

And having found only to lose this 'other', I then found it again in a whole new , and dare I say more improved way. And whilst I don't pretend for a moment to have perfected this inner balance or to have reached enlightenment -I much prefer to refer to my self as "a work in constant progress" ...it is quite useful and fortunate to be able to rely upon my self and to not need an 'other'. This is particularly the case when I experience low periods in my life, during which I find the old familiar patterns of dependency and neediness coming back. ...In fact, it is very useful to have the self knowledge and emotional experience that I do.
And, you know something: I am happy simply being friends with someone.


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Thanks Ruby, that was a very deep response. Some of the things you wrote I had sort thought of before when brainstorming things, but not in a tangible way that you put it. There is a lot of importance about knowing who you are...and it's something that comes with maturity.
I also think what you wrote highlights the importance of social skills. If you are quiet or timid, other people will project 90% of what they think of you onto you without you having a chance of proving them wrong. With the ability talk to others comfortably and showing them your personality (the expression of it), you limit their projection of you because they start to live more into your reality instead of theirs. (There's always going to be some projection, but it shouldn't be significant)

Just curious, when you said "I even stopped her to show her what she had just done", how did she respond? I have a feeling she laughed it off and thought it was funny of you.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

That's a really intelligent insight -one that I hadn't thought of. Yet it does seem true that the louder one is the more credit people give them and their opinion.

Although, I think that projection goes on a lot and even is done to those who are loud and extroverted.

Perhaps it is really a question of how effectively a person expresses who they are; and this, likewise involves the person having a lot of clarity about their nature and identity.

So, I would say that it is largely all about how self aware a person is and how much they understand who they are and what they are about. This qualifies a person as having true confidence -as opposed to the shallow veneer of confidence that many or most 'loud' people will have.

As for that friend of mine: I think that she was amused and even a little touched perhaps. Normally, women for her are natural enemies. She certainly took such an approach towards women herself. 
I found the fact that she was so competitive colorful. For all that she was not so nice a person, she really was a character!


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

I agree that projection plays a huge role in interpersonal stuff. I've learned that people who seriously irritate me often mirror some unpleasant aspect of myself. That's kind of humbling. Regardless, they should still knock it off :lol

I haven't really thought it through regarding who we're attracted to. I'll have to ponder that.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

I dont like *****y women at all. No thanks


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*



> I've learned that people who seriously irritate me often mirror some unpleasant aspect of myself.


Ooh, that is so true and irritating. And thank god it doesn't have to be a real trait you have, it can be just a belief or fear you have about yourself. For example there is a guy at work who talks about what I consider really boring, nothing things. And to top it off his ear hair is longer than my real hair. But his whole thing is scary because he talks about things that are just so boring they UNNERVE ME. And it's because I have this fear that I'm as boring as he is to some other person. Yikes!


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

oke


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*



CoconutHolder said:


> Quote:
> I figure that my main problem has always had to do with having a repressed masculine side; by which I am not referring solely to the sexual side of one's personality but to everything. Like I am slightly passive and lacking in assertiveness. And yet, there is a latent masculine assertiveness and independence sort of bursting to come-out.
> 
> You have no idea how much I identify with what you have just said here. I have an extroverted masculine-like side too that loves to come out. I'm hetero and married but have thought about same-sex type things in the past. I love to get aggressive and fight. Mabey because I'm an aries too? I'm not into dressing overly feminine but I don't dress overly masculine either. I'm right in-between. T shirt and jeans kinda gal. I do wear some mascara and liner and do my hair nice.
> ...


...sorry, I just read this. Yeah, I'm unusual a bit. On the one hand I love feminine things and on the other I love masculine type of things.

I used to play soccer with about 20 males and one other female. It was great fun and I got a good amount of attention being one of the only girls. And the guys actually seemed to like how much bravado I could display on the field -had a great time flirting with a couple of them. Well, the machoest of them all, and the one I had the most trouble getting the ball off, would talk to me about his 'woman troubles' like I was one of the boys. And he confessed to me of not really liking "uptight women" (eventhough he apparently really liked teasing them and was pretty crass towards them). ...He was horrified to discover later that I was one of those 'uptight women', when I made a joke about being a feminist (I pushed this little bratty kid over which was really pretty low and shameful I confess, and all of them were mildly amused).

He just couldn't seem to understand how I could be one extreme and the other simultaneously.

Yet, get this: by night he was the Alpha male of the soccer team, but by day he was a hairdresser. ...and he still was confused about me.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

I associate the word "*****y" as related to being arrogant, having a strong sense of entitlement, lacking empathy, selfish, shallow, quick-tempered, and cruel.

No, these women don't do much for me. I precisely try to avoid *****y women, and they try to avoid me.


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## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

deleted. nevermind :b


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Ardrum, you never have looked better!


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Thanks. It goes to show what a little grooming and positive facial expressions can do!


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: Missing @#%$ Women*

...I had to bring this thread up to the top!!!

I saw it when I pressed the "View your posts" option and thought to my self: what gross person wrote that title?? ...then I saw my name next to it and realised that the moderator had bleeped out a word that for a long time it had left, the word not being so offensive. (maybe you'd remember the original title if you had seen the thread before)

Now that it is bleeped out of course, the irony is that it DOES look rather offensive!!!! :rofl ...


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

*Re: Missing @#%$ Women*

Can you at least SLOW Kermy down, he's going to hurt himself!!??


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

*Re: Missing @#%$ Women*

I forget what it said before.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

the word is still there. its just that SAS has a default option that filters words now and you problably have yours to filter them out


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

*Re: Missing *****y Women*

Thanks Nubly! I just fixed mine.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Oooooooooo oooo Witchy woman...she got the moon in her eye eye eyes. 
Eagles.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

This is funny. They changed it again! :lol


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

What about Bwitchy woman??


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

What's up with that?


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

lol when did the title get changed?


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

...within the last 15 hours or so, I'd say.

It's doubly funny for me, as a few family members seem to be under the impression that (my long stretch of celibacy among other things is because) I am really gay and I'm getting a bit of subtle hinting from them...seeing my own words changed to Missing @**#!! Women, was like just an extra!
...Good think I've got a sense of humor and my insecurities lies elsewhere!! Otherwise, I'd feel under siege! :afr .... :lol


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

OMG, I didn't know you were GAY? lol. Why do all SASers have that moment when others think they are gay?? Someone needs to start a thread comparing celibacy periods.......the longest sexless time period would win a trip to Vegas.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> It's doubly funny for me, as a few family members seem to be under the impression that (my long stretch of celibacy among other things is because) I am really gay and I'm getting a bit of subtle hinting from them...


This works both ways though. So if you've been equally celibate with both men and women, then how could someone deem you favor one over the other? It makes no sense. :lol



FairleighCalm said:


> OMG, I didn't know you were GAY? lol. Why do all SASers have that moment when others think they are gay?? Someone needs to start a thread comparing celibacy periods.......the longest sexless time period would win a trip to Vegas.


I'd just enter my age. :lol

Seriously though, has there been a thread that asks this question? I'd be curious to see where I'd stack up. I wonder if 24 years is in the top half. I bet it is.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

That's not a bad idea. Only problem with setting up one of those tallies on sexual/relationship experience is that the first handful of people will have their answers visible to everyone. ...not necessarily a big deal... Only problem is, common sense demands some basic degree of privacy. If I had it my way, I wouldn't bother keeping much private about my life. But it's like believing in never going to war: this would be ideal, except society isn't evolved enough to handle it and likewise, some tactics of self-defense/prudence need to be used. 

...it's a pity though, in a way, when a person needs to be secretive about stuff that really just shouldn't matter... and doesn't matter either.

I reckon a lot of people are 'mentally virginal' -by which I mean, on a maturity level they're pretty naive or 'emotionally inexperienced'. A fair percentage of these 'emotionally inexperienced' people would include people very much removed from 'physical virginity'.

...I can answer this question of 'emotional sexual experience': I'm not 'emotionally inexperienced' at all. Having said that: there is a difference between 'naive' and 'innocent'. A person can lose their naivety and get wise to the world and others, but never lose their innocence; and by 'innocence' I mean 'faith' in themselves and people in general.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Yeah Ruby, I wish I could I could be as transparent as I'd liketo be about my life with people but it freaks them out??


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

That's interesting that you raise that topic, RubyTuesday. I was recently told by a friend on the phone that she really likes me because I am extremely open and sincere about any topic, even when most people wouldn't want to share that information. I think perhaps I've thought it would make me feel even worse to try to hide reality from people, so I end up being honest if someone asks me a direct question about myself.

I actually don't remember freaking anyone out with this openness. It's probably because I'm usually just answering their questions if someone asks me something about myself.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Ardrum, we are cut from the same fabric. I answer as openly as I can, and I think most of the time people like the honesty.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Maybe what I am getting at mostly is that with women, still, things are not even. Women can't be as honest or straightforward. There are always people who interpret or look at things the way that they look at things. And although I actually don't particularly care what others think, to avoid problems or trouble, it is to some extent better to omit the truth or be vague about it. ...some people, with all due respect, can't really handle it but make a big deal over things that don't mean anything.

Then again, on the bright side, in the past, for example, if some guy I knew made too much of a fuss about physical experience or appearance (anything physical really) I'd get pretty put off.


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