# Meds for extreme fatigue



## polythene (Jul 22, 2007)

*.*

.


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

I know how you feel. Chronic fatigue is awful. I almost fell asleep in class today, and I've just been tired for the entire day anyway. I think mine's a sleep problem though. I usually only sleep about 4-6 hours a night. I know what you mean when you say it interferes with your life. All I can do is sit on here because I'm too tired to do anything else. Hope you find some medication in the end


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

polythene said:


> I've been unusually tired for the past three years or so (or more), and it just gets worse and worse. I know it has something to do with caffeine addiction, but numerous attempts to cut it out completely have failed - ultimately, I end up needing it to function because I can't stay awake otherwise. It comes down to me drinking coffee and slogging through life or not drinking it and staying unconscious in bed all day. I have terrible concentration because I'm always exhausted, and I feel tired 100% of the time.
> 
> I've told my GP about this and asked for a prescription, but he's maddeningly conservative and refuses EVERYTHING, which is why I'm actively looking for a new doctor now.
> 
> ...


is this Fatigue, simply feeling tired, like semi-narcolepsy, tired as in the normal sense,...or do you mean fatigue as in depression, inability to concentrate, no desire to do anything/socialize? There is a pretty big difference- If you are simply tired, there are Tons of Medications and supplements that could help. But if you are the depressed kind of tired, it would indicate that you possibly have Low levels of Dopamine activity.

Normal tired people are just tired, but still happy. Depressed tired people commonly will have low Dopamine activity (in a general sense) , along with other contributing factors. Crap, i hate saying "normal tired people" but i cant think of any other description :roll im gonna use the abbreviations NTP and DTP lol. So, for NTP, there are any number of meds/supplements that can increase wakefullness...anything that increases adrenaline/norepinephrine and histamine, or decreases GABA, can help, such as

But for DTP, most of those things won't work. They will decrease tiredness, but won't alleviate the Depression, which causes the lack of motivation/desire to do normal activities. To actually eliminate the depression and lack of motivation, only Meds/supplements which Directly or Indirectly raise Dopamine levels will reliably help. These include,..Provigil, Amphetamines, Cocaine, ect. Some things that you actually might be able to get/try = Wellbutrin, L-tyrosine, DLPA, Rhodiolia Rosea, Kratom, L-Carnitine, (ive tried all of these, and they all helped, to some extent) . You could try Propylhexedrine, but i dont think its a good idea .

I will definetly come back to this post later, after i get an energy drink, because rite now i cant spell or think at all. I know theres alot more Meds/supplements that could help, i cant think of them right now tho. i apologize for the scrambledness..


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Modafinil may be a good option, i'm not a big fan of wellbutrin myself.
Have you got ADD symptons? That may be the root cause.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Well then the answer is easy, get tested for ADD and get adderall.


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## GSH (Jul 16, 2009)

Provigil, Adderall, Wellbutrin XL are the three biggies.

Most doctors are informed about Provigil and its relatively safe and non addicting. Ask him/her about them. Are you taking SSRIs?


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## timeout (Aug 29, 2009)

*fatique*

I woul try paxil


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

timeout said:


> I woul try paxil


Paxil is supposedly the most sedating SSRI, with Prozac being the most stimulating. Personally, I find SSRIs totally neutral in terms of stimulation/sedation. My brother would agree with the theory that Paxil is sedating, seeing how he would take it and then have to go back to bed which wasn't the case when he used other SSRIs.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

When I was tested for AD/HD, the doctor was reluctant to diagnose me with it since I was afflicted with other mental disorders (anxiety, depression). These would mimic the symptoms of ADD. I'm am also tired most of the time and have difficulty concentrating. 

My doctors mostly ignored my complaints. Their only suggestion was doing exercise heh. Good luck with whatever med(s) you choose!


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

crayzy - never heard of Modanifil, is it easily prescribed?

Modafinil is Provigil.

And I couldn't think of anything other than the drugs you mentioned in your original post, all of which I have tried at least once. And you are correct that getting an amphetamine script basically does take a crowbar to pry it from a doc's hand.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

I suffer from chronic fatigue too, wish I could get an amphetamine script, then at least 1 day a week I could get relief from it.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Well then the answer is easy, get tested for ADD and get adderall.


This Is probably your best bet. As hard as it sounds, i personally haven't really had any trouble at all getting Amphetamines, one P-doc just tested me for ADD, and i fit the criteria, so he gives me Vyvanse. Since then, every other p-Doc that i go to, i just tell them "I tried (x/y/z antidepressant) + a low dose of Adderall, the combination helped me greatly!..ect". Then I explain my symptoms, and why/how exactly Adderall helped. Since ive taken Amphetamine in the past, Doctors are much more likely to give it to me, because they know/think they know that im not an "abuser"...lol.

Simply going to a p-doc/normal Doc, and asking Blatantly for an amphetamine prescription will NOT work. This is a situation where straightforwardness/confidence will not get you what you want.....remember, the Doctor is in control. They have the degree, and the prescription pad. As much as you can, you must not challenge or in any way undermine their sense of power. 
As much as it pisses you off...if you are a patient, and you want amphetamine, you will have to assume the position of "doormat". When you are talking to the Doc, you must not appear stubborn or close-minded. By any means possible, do not act/talk/show the Doc that you have an agenda (to get Amph). When the Doc asks you about your symptoms, you must give them subtle hints/clues. Mention having fatigue, problems focusing, and the other symptoms of ADD. But never say "I think I have ADD/ADHD". All you have to do is mention the symptoms...99% of Docs will Recognize what you are describing (if you describe it right). When talking to the Doc, You must not act/appear happy/gung-ho, while at the same time, claiming to have symptoms of ADD/fatigue. The doctor will tell you to get better sleep, eat better, and excercise more. On the other hand, you must not over-exagerrate/fake the symptoms you are describing. If the Doc sees that you are faking symptoms in order to get medication, you fail right then and there. The trick is to act how your symptoms normally make you act. Don't let yourself get excited because you might get meds, it will influence how you act. Act how you would if you weren't talking to the Doc....and tweak it only a little bit, just to steer the doc in the right direction. Show them the symptoms you want them to see.

If they ask you about symptoms of depression, and you give them reason to believe you have depression....you are going to get an SSRI/SNRI/Wellbutrin. Even if you have symptoms of both ADD/depression, you will likely not get amphetamine.....you will have to take an SNRI first. Then, if that fails, it is common to add in a low dose amphetamine/stimulant.

Its all about directing the conversation/discussion in the direction you want it to go...without the Doc knowing it. You must be careful and calm/unauthoritative, ...you have to look like the helpless, agenda-free, ADD patient that you are (lol?:roll). When you walk into the doctor's office, and sit down in the chair/on the couch....you have a Goal. The Doctor must NOT see that you have this goal (or any facial expressions/body language that describe the presence of such).

A conversation with a Doc is like ... trying to make a tame/overweight/irritable/lazy Lion walk from the middle of a field, and through a gate in the fence and into another open field. There are 3 gates in the fence. You want the Lion to go through the 1st gate. First, you must set out little pieces of meat (symptoms) leading towards the first gate, and one BIG piece of meat on the other side of the fence. The lion will slowly walk towards the little pieces of meat. Keep putting out more little pieces, slowly leading towards the 1st gate. If the Lion strays, or starts to wander towards any of the other gates, gently lead him towards the first gate by catching his attention (make a small unthreatening noise) so that it notices the meat again, and resumes following the little meat trail. Once you are close to the 1st gate, you can push the lion very softly, if needed, in the right direction, but push too hard, and he will bite your hand off (you lose). Its a process of leading the lion towards the 1st gate, and pushing a little in the right direction if needed, but if He gets irritated, stop pushing and back off,...let Him walk more, push a little, back off, repeat. Ultimately, you must get the Lion to walk through the 1st gate, without Him ever knowing you were Trying to get him to walk through it. Make him Want to go through the 1st gate.


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

Great story dude  "how to get amphs"

I hope I can get to my p-doc soon for amphetamines. 
I will mention some ADHD symptoms, Depression that leads to Social avoidance. Problem is he already knows I have anxiety issues. So I really hope that stimulants are still a possibility. Already have tried ssri's snris'. He probably starts with wellbutirn/concerta or something but then I will complain about side effects etc and get a script for amps. It's not really common to prescribe them in my country so the chance of failure is rather high. I do not want to look like a drug seeker, I only want to improve my own wellbeing ffs. Play the game, play it smart. 

Otherwise you can find me at the local dealer. yey.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

wow im such a fruitcake..but somebody has to love the "lion metaphor" i dont think anyone will ever understand it....i know it was just 2 hours ago that i wrote it, but i was high on an energy drink + my normal meds + a normal amount of sleep (usually my meds dont work as well cuz im sleep deprived)

If anyone wonders, i am in no way trying to encourage/teach people how 2 manipulate their doctors to give them certain meds...im just trying to help those who actually need to successfully communicate with Docs to survive (like me) :boogie


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm working with a doctor and I'm bugging him to prescribe me injectable caffeine. He hasn't caved yet, but I can be pretty annoying.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

zookeeper said:


> I'm working with a doctor and I'm bugging him to prescribe me injectable caffeine. He hasn't caved yet, but I can be pretty annoying.


hahaha Lol....this actually made me laugh, regardless of whether or not you were being sarcastic. I mean, i dont really laugh much, except at random stuff that nobody else thinks is funny, usually. lol...."CAFCIT (caffeine citrate) injection" so it actually exists! are you serious though about wanting injectable caffeine? i mean, yeah it would probably provide quite a rush/buzz, especially in non-tolerant users.....if i abstain from caffeine for 2 weeks, then drink a whole energy drink or 2 cups of coffee, i get pretty amazing effects.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> "CAFCIT (caffeine citrate) injection" so it actually exists!


But it usually comes in baby size doses, so I'm gonna have to pound a lot of that stuff if I'm want to stay awake this afternoon.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

zookeeper said:


> But it usually comes in baby size doses, so I'm gonna have to pound a lot of that stuff if I'm want to stay awake this afternoon.


haha 10mg thats pathetic..unless its effect is stronger from injection which seems to be the case with most drugs . i have 2 NOS energy drinks in my backpack, each has 357 mg of caffeine, + lotsa other actually effective other herbal stuff. ive always wondered what would happen if i let my little brother drink a whole botttle, i mean i dont really want to know nor would i actually let him ever. probably cause a heart attack


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> Great story dude  "how to get amphs"
> 
> Already have tried ssri's snris'. He probably starts with wellbutirn/concerta or something but then I will complain about side effects etc and get a script for amps. It's not really common to prescribe them in my country so the chance of failure is rather high.


Concerta is actually pretty good (compared to having nothing at all). I took the 38mg capsule thingy, i think that was the dosage. It was actually very powerful/strong at first, in reducing depression. I wasnt depressed in the least bit at all...but it didnt help at all with my Social Anxiety, i was actually more anxious...im not sure why Amphetamine seems to help with SA more, but Ritalin/Concerta less so. But still, even tho Concerta didnt reduce my SA, it did reduce my depression, which made it alot easier to talk and tolerate social situations and stuff. Unfortunately, I quickly became tolerant to its positive effects, and within 1 week was taking 2 capsules a day....lol i dug myself into a hole. Thankfully, nearly everyone ive known/met/asked does not get tolerant to stuff as fast as I do.

Concerta does have some benefits over Amphetamine.....its less neurotoxic, and won't cause permanent/long-lasting damage/depletion of Dopamine neurons. However, since Concerta merely enhances the effects of whatever Dopamine is already in the synapse, if You dont have any dopamine in the synapse it wont do anything. Amphetamine actually forces dopamine into the synapse, it overrides the brains inhibitory feedback mechanisms, while Concerta is more strongly inhibited by inhibitory feedback


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> haha 10mg thats pathetic..unless its effect is stronger from injection which seems to be the case with most drugs . i have 2 NOS energy drinks in my backpack, each has *357 mg* of caffeine, + lotsa other actually effective other herbal stuff. ive always wondered what would happen if i let my little brother drink a whole botttle, i mean i dont really want to know nor would i actually let him ever. probably cause a heart attack


I'm assuming they didn't likely pick 357 mg at random. Could this be a reference to .357 Magnum.

In any case, that is a ton of caffeine for one serving. Regular colas contain only 35-40 mg of caffeine on average and I used to think caffeine had no effect on me at all. I found it was a dosage issue. It wasn't till the other year that I figured out caffeine actually does have a stimulant effect when consumed as 200 mg caffeine pills (that cost $3 for a bottle of 90 at Walmart).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

polythene said:


> ... thing is, I do also have depression and anxiety which would be going untreated. I think the amphetamines would help largely with the fatigue and the anxiety (ironically), but I'd be ignoring my depressive symptoms.


If you got amphetamines, that's certainly not ignoring your depressive symptoms at all. There is no prescription drug that will improve your mood more rapidly than amphetamines can.

Amphetamines have a long history of being used to treat depression. Amphetamines for depression treatment fell very much out of favor with the creation of the first antidepressant medications starting in the mid-1950s and the start of our War On Drugs with the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 and creation of the DEA.

For the past few weeks I've been taking dextroamphetamine and I can assure you that it definitely improves mood. And it's not a "well, it kind-of-sort-of improves" mood pill. An hour after taking it, the darkness has lifted and I no longer reside in hell on earth.

I've never been diagnosed with ADD, and I tend to doubt I have any form of ADD (though not 100% certain on that). But I can tell you with certainty that stimulants improve mood. And amphetamines are still used in cases of treatment resistant depression because they work.

I find it both ironic & sickening how docs seem to have little difficulty giving children such potent drugs so little Billy will sit down, shut up, and get straight 'A's instead of driving his teacher insane, yet I at age 36 have to jump through hoops to get them for depression. Apparently, my mental hell is less important than making sure little Billy doesn't act like, well, a kid.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> I'm assuming they didn't likely pick 357 mg at random. Could this be a reference to .357 Magnum.
> 
> In any case, that is a ton of caffeine for one serving. Regular colas contain only 35-40 mg of caffeine on average and I used to think caffeine had no effect on me at all. I found it was a dosage issue. It wasn't till the other year that I figured out caffeine actually does have a stimulant effect when consumed as 200 mg caffeine pills (that cost $3 for a bottle of 90 at Walmart).


hmm..i dont know much about guns, i actually love explosions and stuff, but my OCD makes me scared of learning about guns, i dunno why. im not scared of the actual guns, its the learning part....NOS bottles used to have 343mg per 22 ounce bottle, now it has 357. Is 343 a gun also? 200mg caffeine pills are kinda strong....i mean, i feel awfully tense, irritable, and jittery if i drink 1 cup of coffee, of course i get a buzz, but its quite intense. Energy drinks dont make me feel bad at all, just good effects....against my better judgement, i think ill be staying up all night tonite,. 40mg Cola stuff makes me tired, when i drink it its the opposite of energy drinks, i feel tired dizzy and sick. i dont think i should have drank the NOS, i really do need sleep...i also took some more Dexedrine, because if im staying up anyway i might as well do something fun. I need to take a day off of Dexedrine though....let my brain replenish itself with Dopamine (if it does that, im not sure how taking a day off helps) Dex still works, but i can just feel the Empty Dopamine vesicles in my brain, twinging/clicking...wow im so insane. lol:no:roll

do u just take Dexedrine by itself? how long have u taken it? if i take amphetamine by itself for 4 weeks, i get completely tolerant and paranoid


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

polythene said:


> Fortunately they've gotten much better of late, but I do have to wonder if I shouldn't try Nardil/Parnate (I forget what class of antidepressant they are) - I don't want to bother with yet another SSRI because they're a waste of time. I know that mentioning depression OR anxiety would raise a red flag, though.


Nardil/Parnate = MAOIs. They are usually very effective at treating depression, and also effective for Social Anxiety (Nardil is supposedly better 4 SA). They will pretty much always be more effective than SSRIs.....SSRIs kinda/sorta Fail completely. ....MAOIs raise Dopamine as well as serotonin, so usually they can help more with motivation/concentration/ADD, definetly a vast improvement over what SSRIs would do for those symptoms. But the problem is, one of the main/most prominent side effects of MAOIs = postural hypotension, a.k.a. low blood pressure....even if you feel good and motivated, its really hard to do any physical exercise/activity. If you already sleep through the day, Nardil/Parnate would theoretically improve that sleep... lol

I don't even think its worth mentioning this, due to the near impossibility of it ever being possible, but MAOI + Low dose Amphetamine/Stimulant is an amazing combo for Depression, Fatigue, ADD, SA...i have all of these. 2 Days ago i went to a Clinical Psychopharmacologist (Clinical Psychopharmacology), and he Prescribed me Parnate + Dexedrine + Memantine. I still can't believe it really. That combo has been the ONLY thing that has significantly and consistently helped me, ive spent 3 years trying all the other Meds. I think Nardil + Dexedrine would be better for Anxiety, but im happy enough with Parnate + Dexedrine.

Ive had 7 psychiatrists so far, the first 5 wouldn't give me an MAOI... the 7th one, gave me an MAOI, but got mad at me (she had good reason) when i added some leftover Dexedrine. Then i went to the Psychopharmacologist....talked to him for 10 minutes, told him what i was taking, he was like "cool, thats a great combo", just like that. This doesnt apply to every P-doc, but most younger ones are scared of MAOIs and won't prescribe them, usually the older ones who were around in the 1950-60s (when MAOIs were used alot) will be more comfortable with prescribing them. The psychopharmacologist I went to is about 75..


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> hmm..i dont know much about guns, i actually love explosions and stuff, but my OCD makes me scared of learning about guns, i dunno why. im not scared of the actual guns, its the learning part....NOS bottles used to have 343mg per 22 ounce bottle, now it has 357. Is 343 a gun also?


I've never heard of any .343 caliber, so it's not common if it exists.

A .357 Magnum is simply a high velocity variation based on the .38 Special cartridge. Both use bullets that measure .357 inches in diameter.



Vini Vidi Vici said:


> do u just take Dexedrine by itself? how long have u taken it? if i take amphetamine by itself for 4 weeks, i get completely tolerant and paranoid


I started taking it January 12, so not long. I continue to take Xanax as I have for years. I'm still playing around with dose trying to figure out how much and when is best.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> I've never heard of any .343 caliber, so it's not common if it exists.
> 
> A .357 Magnum is simply a high velocity variation based on the .38 Special cartridge. Both use bullets that measure .357 inches in diameter.
> 
> I started taking it January 12, so not long. I continue to take Xanax as I have for years. I'm still playing around with dose trying to figure out how much and when is best.


thats awesome dude....no tolerance..or at least it still works.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> I find it both ironic & sickening how docs seem to have little difficulty giving children such potent drugs so little Billy will sit down, shut up, and get straight 'A's instead of driving his teacher insane, yet I at age 36 have to jump through hoops to get them for depression. Apparently, my mental hell is less important than making sure little Billy doesn't act like, well, a kid.


i think this is a really interesting point of discussion....The reason Amphetamines are in Schedule II is because of their supposed abuse/harm potential. Psychiatrists are extremely reluctant to prescribe Amphetamine/stimulants to people with depression, because there is a potential for addiction/and/or abuse/harm to the patient.....after establishing such, Psychiatrists/Doctors hand out Amphetamines to Young Children, to make them calm down/focus. I'm not against amphetamines or ADD/ADHD medication, ...yay for drugs!:yes

But... How does one justify prescribing a 10 year old kid 20mg of Adderall a day? Of course, amphetamine is not a "toxic brain poison". But, it does cause dose-dependent neurotoxicity and long-term depletions in Dopamine Activity,....it can permanently alter an individuals brain, for the worse. Research has shown that *child and adolescent* exposure to Nicotine and Opioids (Opiates? lol i forgot the spelling) can cause permanent deficits/alterations in the reward system. Therefore, there is a higher than average chance that negative consequences of drug exposure, such as Depression/Anxiety/ADD will surface during adulthood.

What I'm saying, is that, in this case, the interest of "harm reduction" (and refusing to prescribe amphetamine)....might actually do more harm to a specific (adult) patient , than what would result from simply giving the patient the drug. And Inversely, what Doctors believe to be a safe practice (prescribing Amphetamine to children) might be significantly harming said patients. :sus


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I tought they didnt give amphetamines to childeren? Ritalin is a fat better idea for childeren as its actually neuroprotective and is as efficient in treating ADHD then amphetamines. (Amphetamine seems to be only better for the the add'ers).

I do doubt there's any evidence that amphetamine causes problems later in the adulthood tough.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Anyway, i'm not even convinced amphetamine is neurotoxic for humans, so i certainly doubt that any problems come from therapeutic use.


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## BusterBluth (Sep 21, 2009)

A couple doctors I have talked to have said that adderall and dextroamphetamine are not neurotoxic or at least not significantly so and do not present adverse health effects if taken long term.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

BusterBluth said:


> A couple doctors I have talked to have said that adderall and dextroamphetamine are not neurotoxic or at least not significantly so and do not present adverse health effects if taken long term.


+1
They have been around since 1920(?) without any problems, they are definatly safe to use.


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## Comfortably Glum (Jan 6, 2010)

Anyone try *Sulbutiamine* (*Arcalion*). It's a synthetic derivative of thiamine (vitamin B1). 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulbutiamine


> Although its clinical efficacy is uncertain,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulbutiamine#cite_note-Tiev-2 it is the only compound used to treat asthenia that is known to selectively target the areas that are involved in the condition.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulbutiamine#cite_note-Van_Reeth-3 In addition to its use as a treatment for chronic fatigue, sulbutiamine also appears to improve memory and erectile dysfunction.


I've been looking for something to counteract benzo fatigue and foggy brain.
It's not prescribed in US yet but shouldn't be a problem importing.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Youll find more experiences about it on this forum:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partne...-A&sort_key=last_post&topicfilter=all&st=1170


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## Comfortably Glum (Jan 6, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Youll find more experiences about it on this forum:
> http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partne...-A&sort_key=last_post&topicfilter=all&st=1170


Thanks for the link crazymeds


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> This Is probably your best bet. As hard as it sounds, i personally haven't really had any trouble at all getting Amphetamines, one P-doc just tested me for ADD, and i fit the criteria, so he gives me Vyvanse. Since then, every other p-Doc that i go to, i just tell them "I tried (x/y/z antidepressant) + a low dose of Adderall, the combination helped me greatly!..ect". Then I explain my symptoms, and why/how exactly Adderall helped. Since ive taken Amphetamine in the past, Doctors are much more likely to give it to me, because they know/think they know that im not an "abuser"...lol.
> 
> Simply going to a p-doc/normal Doc, and asking Blatantly for an amphetamine prescription will NOT work. This is a situation where straightforwardness/confidence will not get you what you want.....remember, the Doctor is in control. They have the degree, and the prescription pad. As much as you can, you must not challenge or in any way undermine their sense of power.
> As much as it pisses you off...if you are a patient, and you want amphetamine, you will have to assume the position of "doormat". When you are talking to the Doc, you must not appear stubborn or close-minded. By any means possible, do not act/talk/show the Doc that you have an agenda (to get Amph). When the Doc asks you about your symptoms, you must give them subtle hints/clues. Mention having fatigue, problems focusing, and the other symptoms of ADD. But never say "I think I have ADD/ADHD". All you have to do is mention the symptoms...99% of Docs will Recognize what you are describing (if you describe it right). When talking to the Doc, You must not act/appear happy/gung-ho, while at the same time, claiming to have symptoms of ADD/fatigue. The doctor will tell you to get better sleep, eat better, and excercise more. On the other hand, you must not over-exagerrate/fake the symptoms you are describing. If the Doc sees that you are faking symptoms in order to get medication, you fail right then and there. The trick is to act how your symptoms normally make you act. Don't let yourself get excited because you might get meds, it will influence how you act. Act how you would if you weren't talking to the Doc....and tweak it only a little bit, just to steer the doc in the right direction. Show them the symptoms you want them to see.
> ...


lmao I absolutely loved this post!!

It remains me of the same tactic I used to get benzo scripts back in the day..you go into that Dr's office knowing you want to come out with a benzo script in your hand, but you know the chances are very slim unless you play the game well.

I remember "leading" my dr into the benzo direction after discussing my social anxiety symptoms and quality of life, what it restricts me doing etc, how it makes me feel... we then got into all the meds I've tried until there is nothing left but MAOI's and benzos.. The dr gives me the "MAOI's like Nardil are dirty drugs and benzos are addictive" and how neither of them are prescribed now for anxiety conditions... so then I use the gentle push tactic and try the emotional blackmail and he comes around..ok I'll put you on the Valium for 2 weeks and we'll see how you get on.

I remember at that point I couldn't contain my excitement and broke out into a grin and suddenly my vulnerable facade had slipped. The doctor stares at me and quips "ahhh see you're happy now you're getting what you want aren't you!" giving me these evil eyes while his pen is hovering over the script pad...and I'm thinking oh **** he's gonna change his mind, I've blown it...but then he takes a deep breath like hes signing his house away or something, and writes out the script, tears it off and hands it to me with a look of disapproval and says, "I want to see you in 2 weeks, with the Valium"


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

Your must be kidding me right? Diet and exercise is your bet against fatigue no medication is going to do that. If anything medication will make you fatigue and tired along with other harmful side effects. Give me a break.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Rixy said:


> I know how you feel. Chronic fatigue is awful. I almost fell asleep in class today, and I've just been tired for the entire day anyway. I think mine's a sleep problem though. I usually only sleep about 4-6 hours a night. I know what you mean when you say it interferes with your life. All I can do is sit on here because I'm too tired to do anything else. Hope you find some medication in the end


I get this myself. Had it several months and it really scared me I thought perhaps it was a sign of some underlying illness, but I have days when I'm fine and others when i can hardly stand up or move.

I've been using stimulants to help energise and motivate me and that has been working, but I would like to get to the bottom of the chronic fatigue really and find out whether it's related to brain chemical imbalance/depression, or just poor sleep, or even some dietary factor.

Of course, the sensible thing to do is to go get checked over by a doctor and have some blood tests done, but with the chronic SA it's not so easy.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

QuietBoy99 said:


> Your must be kidding me right? Diet and exercise is your bet against fatigue no medication is going to do that. If anything medication will make you fatigue and tired along with other harmful side effects. Give me a break.


 leg or arm:b


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## LadyDarkness (Jun 5, 2011)

I have A LOT of fatigue and it's been this way for 23 yrs. I would love to find something to make me feel healthy again. I am, however kind of afraid that any type of stimulant would worsen my anxiety, and I also have to be careful because I have an irregular heartbeat.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm using Kratom as my stimulant of choice at the moment for the chronic fatigue which works well. I can control the dosage down to a fine art now and I capsulate powdered leaf myself (800mg). 

I'm not sure whether Kratom is a good choice though for CF treatment or using as a stimulant, because of it's obvious action on opiate receptors and addiction/tolerance potential (like most nice drugs!) but I somehow prefer it being a natural plant product over pill stimulants. I previously used Tramadol which worked as a great work and pro-social stimulant, but the stimulation side became unpleasant and too much for me the longer I used it, even at low dosages (10-20mg)

Kratom is for me however, a double-edged sword when it comes to anxiety. On the one hand the stimulation can make me more edgy and nervous, particularly if I'm stressing over a pending social situation such as a parcel delivery.. but on the other hand, I do find Kratom has empathetic and mood lifting properties, and that often helps me make more effort to speak to people and engage in a bit of banter. 

Right now I'm using Kratom in combo with Buspar or Xanax, and that seems to work well for me the Buspar/Xanax takes the edgy anxious feeling away from the stimulation, yet without removing the energising side of the stimulation effect.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

QuietBoy99 said:


> Your must be kidding me right? Diet and exercise is your bet against fatigue no medication is going to do that. If anything medication will make you fatigue and tired along with other harmful side effects. Give me a break.


Cos its always possible to do exercise when you have chronic fatigue... 
Clearly you have no understanding or experience of what chronic fatigue actually is.

Please spare us the repetitive one liner of exercise and diet thats in every one of your posts.

With regard to the question, as others have mentioned there are several different classes that could be usefull in getting you to the point where you have energy for things in life.
Wellbutrin, Modafinil, Amphetamine etc.


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

*Your all talk*



foxy said:


> leg or arm:b


No. A KIT KAT BAR. Give me break, give me break, break me off that piece of that KIT KAT BAR. ROFL.



A Sense of Purpose said:


> Cos its always possible to do exercise when you have chronic fatigue...
> Clearly you have no understanding or experience of what chronic fatigue actually is.
> 
> Please spare us the repetitive one liner of exercise and diet thats in every one of your posts.
> ...


Diet and exercise doesn't fail. Chronic fatigue? so you would make it worse with harmful meds? Which is known to cause fatigue and drowsiness. You keep taking your harmful meds you walking pharmacy. Show me a study that says diet and exercise fails; your all talk and no walk. :no


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

QuietBoy99 said:


> No. A KIT KAT BAR. Give me break, give me break, break me off that piece of that KIT KAT BAR. ROFL.
> 
> Diet and exercise doesn't fail. Chronic fatigue? so you would make it worse with harmful meds? Which is known to cause fatigue and drowsiness. You keep taking your harmful meds you walking pharmacy. Show me a study that says diet and exercise fails; your all talk and no walk. :no


Ill keep my 'harmful meds' and hopefully people will continue ignoring your fact deficient and lackluster posts. Fingers crossed.


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

*You have weak arguments*



A Sense of Purpose said:


> Ill keep my 'harmful meds' and hopefully people will continue ignoring your fact deficient and lackluster posts. Fingers crossed.


Still no study on how diet and exercise fails? You haven't provided me with any scientific facts so look whose "fact deficient"? You keep ignoring everything and only listen to what you want to hear; I feel sorry for you. Keep taking your harmful meds. I will not respond to you anymore until you provide me scientific facts; have a nice life.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

QuietBoy99 said:


> Still no study on how diet and exercise fails? You haven't provided me with any scientific facts so look whose "fact deficient"? You keep ignoring everything and only listen to what you want to hear; I feel sorry for you. Keep taking your harmful meds. I will not respond to you anymore until you provide me scientific facts; have a nice life.


Well for one
http://altcancerweb.com/bipolar/novel-treatments/modafinil-treatment-psychiatric-disorders.pdf

im not posting for your benefit, because it is quite evident that you cant relate to half the people who suffer on this forum. All you do is troll the med pages sayin the same bs with the same anecdotal evidence.

Please provide peer reviewed, proper studies that have some kind of significance to your criticisms.


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Well for one
> http://altcancerweb.com/bipolar/novel-treatments/modafinil-treatment-psychiatric-disorders.pdf
> 
> im not posting for your benefit, because it is quite evident that you cant relate to half the people who suffer on this forum. All you do is troll the med pages sayin the same bs with the same anecdotal evidence.
> ...


That is not scientific evidence; an article that is peer reviewed does not make it scientific evidence you troll. Did you not read your the title it includes "Potential" which is non-scientific. Your ignoring the fact that most psychiatrist and doctors are paid off by big pharma to write these "scientific" articles. Plus there "Ghost Writers" look it up for the definition you troll. These are facts; yours is make believe. It's just that your hard headed and are not objective. Get a clue.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

Ahahahahahhahahahahahah.....

You think there is one cure that will fix ALL? You're mad. Any med that claims it can would be lying. It just doesnt work like that. But you seem to take everything literally.

There is no point continuing this discussion. I have provided evidence, you have not. The people will read!


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

Your evidence so weak; here is a link to post with strong evidence.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/long-term-effects-of-antidepressants-62352/index2.html

Scroll down you'll see a post with a lot of links to evidence; I know you won't read it because your hard headed.

Also Duke University did a study where exercise was more effective than paxil and other antidepressants. Remember this is Duke University one of the most precious Universities in the World.

READ
http://today.duke.edu/2000/09/exercise922.html

You have refuted none of my evidence so far so that means you agree with them.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

Forgive me if you are blind, but i believe this thread title refers to *CHRONIC FATIGUE* and *MEDICATIONS* that *can HELP* with it.

*Sorry for staying on topic, but i refuse to let you boycott this thread with offtopic and irrelevant details. *Thanks for playing.


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

Again this is your way of ignoring the facts and refusing to refute anything I said so that means you agree with my evidence. The argument is now over because you agree with my evidence.


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## Arisa1536 (Dec 8, 2009)

Well my mother has chronic fatigue and I can tell you right now that Exercise is not the answer. Too much exercise makes her worse than she was before and even moderate exercise and sunshine exposure can cause headaches, muscle pain
while I Admit that the benefits of natural massage and hot stone massage are amazing, they are far too expensive to have every few days but light exercise three times a week helped me lose weight and regulate my body in terms of stomach and bowels but diet can make you ill depending on what you do or do not eat and chocolate releases good endorphins  also not being a woman, *quietboy* you would not understand PMS and the need for decent pain relief during that time of month

massage is around 40-100 dollars per session whereas pills in this country are subsidized to three dollars per three month script and i am on a disability card which entitles me to a vast amount of FREE prescription medications like antidepressants so given that and the fact that meds are not advertised on T.V except that crap effexor, we are not all being led to believe in miracle drugs nor are we as consumers paying money that we do not have for them either

Gym memberships, massage and healthy food are very expensive over here
drugs, fast food and sleeping meds are cheap
if you are not rich this is the option you choose. 

also fatigue is not something that can just be explained or tossed aside with "exercise" and "Diet"

Clonazepam is effective in helping my mothers CFS and she is not addicted, she can go days without them even a couple of weeks with no withdrawals since she takes them sparingly. Also wellbutrin is meant to be good for Fatigue too as is modanafil and certain pain killers.

My hubby drinks poppy tea once a week (N.Z is great for being able to plant and buy seeds here legally and its the best type of poppy seed here too _Papaver somniferum _and its not imported or extracted from overseas. woot!_!) _and that works for him but it makes me heave which sux but I am not opposed to natural substances or chemical if they help people and continue to then who am I to say "don't take that?"


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

QuietBoy99 said:


> Again this is your way of ignoring the facts and refusing to refute anything I said so that means you agree with my evidence. The argument is now over because you agree with my evidence.


Mate it is you that is ignoring the topic. Get on track! Re-read your posts for this thread and re-evaluate whether they are appropriate. Then tell me who is the med troll with no new information.

Oh, and as you can see its not just me who understands that exercise isnt a 'fix everything' modality. Others seem to be on the same page and understand what its like when they actually experience it first hand, or via someone close.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

QuietBoy99 said:


> Again this is your way of ignoring the facts and refusing to refute anything I said so that means you agree with my evidence. The argument is now over because you agree with my evidence.


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## guitarmatt (Aug 13, 2009)

Recently ive been getting severe tiredness on and off despite getting 8 hrs of sleep. I guess its a symptom of my depression or anxiety, because it happens throughout the day at school. Once im home I kind of forget about it.
I now know what people mean when they say severe fatigue, because it feells like your whole body is physically tired for no reason.


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## QuietBoy99 (Sep 7, 2010)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Mate it is you that is ignoring the topic. Get on track! Re-read your posts for this thread and re-evaluate whether they are appropriate. Then tell me who is the med troll with no new information.
> 
> Oh, and as you can see its not just me who understands that exercise isnt a 'fix everything' modality. Others seem to be on the same page and understand what its like when they actually experience it first hand, or via someone close.


You just love to cause conflict. I wish you the best of luck in life.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

blakeyz that picture is stunning


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

QuietBoy99 said:


> Your evidence so weak; here is a link to post with strong evidence.
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/long-term-effects-of-antidepressants-62352/index2.html
> 
> ...


 get a life :yes


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Others seem to be on the same page and understand what its like when they actually experience it [exercise] first hand, or via someone close.


I completely agree, 110%. Exercise is often so underrated and ignored in a treatment strategy for SA. For me it was a life saver a few years ago and really got me out of a rut and eased my SA symptoms.

It's helpful on so many levels...

1. It releases "feel good" and anti-stress chemicals in the brain and body, you literally can get "high" from exercising. It's a scientific fact that exercise does reduce anxiety.

2. It usually has some social aspect to it, even if you're just jogging alone early in the morning as I used to, you're doing something outside, and passing people. It's better than hiding away and helps you learn not to be scared around people. And if you do feel sacred, because you're focused on an activity, it's not so bad you can just focus on that and don't have to get stressed out and run away.

3. It brings routine and stability to your day/life which is often really lacking in people with SA. It keeps you motivated and pushing forwards instead of retreating and going backwards. Gives you a sense of purpose and something to get up for in the morning.

4. It can be very rewarding both physically, mentally and psychologically. You get physically fit and in good shape. If you look good, you start to feel good about yourself and a positive self-image loop starts to replace the old negative self-image loop. As you get stronger physically and mentally, you become less timid and more confident.

5. There's the opportunity to make friends and have "training partners" if you want to. Often its fun and you can just enjoy socialising in a controlled way.

6. It helps you to develop skills like setting and achieving goals. You can push yourself a bit harder to reach your exercise/fitness levels and keep a record of your progress, then apply the same method to other areas of your life.

7. You don't need to worry too much about how you look when you're exercising outdoors. No need to obsess over clothes or appearance and who might see or judge you. You're focused on exercising.

8. Exercising regularly helps regulate metabolism, diet, weight and energy levels, a whole load of physical benefits.

9. Once you become physically fit to a high level, not only do you look great, but your physical abilities impress those around you and you start to get compliments and positive feedback from people. It may help give you confidence with members of the opposite sex and make you more attractive to them.

10. People who exercise regularly and are far more likely to be healthy and have far fewer health problems due to stronger immune systems. Less health problems = less visits to the doctor and less reliance on drugs, got to be a good thing for someone with SA!

11. When you've finished your exercising session, it's normal to have a period of recovery. The recovery period is a great way to learn to relax and chill out more. You're taking some time out from your day and because your body is pumped full of natural feel good chemicals, you're able to relax more easily.

You don't need to join a gym (unless you feel you want to) or get loads of expensive stuff. Great thing about exercise it costs very little to do. Even if you're exercising totally alone in your home you'll get huge benefits, but those benefits will multiply considerably if you can do something outdoors or around other people.

Would just like to add, that for me, Tai Chi is absolutely wonderful for SA. It's like combining meditation with exercise. You only need to do 10 or 15 minutes of it every day to get some benefit, and it's particularly helpful to calm you down before any stressful situation.


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## rik (Jan 4, 2010)

_bump_

You're both right.

Exercise and diet does not work for everyone. 
Medication does not work for everyone.
Therapy (talk,cognitive,meditation) does not work for everyone.

I'm training 4 times a week with a balanced diet. Followed many therapies, but only medication works for my Fatigue.

Every person Is different and needs different things to relieve their problems. There's evidende for all the 3 points I mentioned. But it's not said that one thing works for everyone.


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## robtyl (Sep 2, 2010)

I've had chronic fatigue for a long time, perhaps 10 years or more.

I've seen a bunch of doctors over the years and have had blood tests, CAT scans, x-rays and overnight sleep studies.

I'm currently seeing a specialist treating people with sleep disorders and have been prescribed both modafinil and ritalin - not to take together, but to decide as to which I want to continue on indefinitely.

As far as I am concerned, both have different advantages. Ritalin is stimulating and is great for anxiety (at least for me)... but modafinil gives me relief from mental fog. Modafinil, however, doesn't give me a stimulated feeling, which, while enough to keep me from falling asleep, doesn't psychologically relieve me in the sense of making me feel that my fatigue has gone.

I can say, however, that neither are panaceas - there was a time where I was desperate for some sort of medication, believing it to be the answer was looking for. But for anyone out there thinking like this - believe me, they both have their negatives. The crash after stopping ritalin for a while was considerable, where I was extremely tired for about a week (perhaps I was developing dependence?). Modafinil in a sense is TOO subtle for me, where it might protect me from falling asleep uncontrollably, but doesn't help me feel energetic (in a good way), so it's a bit lacking in that regard.

I can say from experience that exercise DOES help. Not completely, but it does. Also, being busy helps a LOT. I know that during holidays when I have not much to do I am a lot more tired just because there's no adrenaline flowing from mild stress of having deadlines and going outside the house. 

To those who are tired, exercise and try to keep busy through work or volunteering or anything. Some people are sceptical but I've come to 'mature' in my outlook in that there is no magic cure. Medication can only take you part of the way there. I'm doing a bit of everything now and am feeling much better. It's more convenient to wish for a perfect medication but at least for now there isn't, so my only choice is to try a combination of things and see how I go.

And then choose ritalin or modafinil. But not both 

x


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