# MLB postseason



## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Well, after watching Cleveland complete a sweep of Detroit, basically sewing up the division, it looks more and more like it will be Boston, Cleveland, and the Angels as division champs, with NY as the wild card. Detroit imploded too much, and the Indians just flat-out beat them all three games, despite spotting the Tigers a few runs each game. Should be an interesting post-season, although I would have preferred to see someone other than Boston & NY in AGAIN (proving that post-season still can be bought). I hope that Cleveland can pass Boston for the best record

The NL is still up in the air, with no division seemingly locked up yet. That should make for a very interesting last couple of weeks of the season. I'm rooting for the D-backs, since I have family in Phoenix, but I don't have a strong interest in the NL at all.

By the way, does anyone understand the logic in the rule that states that the wild card team can't play the team in its division in the first round of the playoffs? For the life of me, I don't get it. It's NOT okay for two teams from the same division to play in the first round, but it IS okay for two teams from the same division to play in the LCS? Just a dumb rule that should be dropped.

Brian


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

brimontz said:


> should be an interesting post-season,


Umm...



> although I would have preferred to see someone other than Boston & NY in AGAIN (proving that post-season still can be bought).


Yeah, not too interesting. The AL East must be the most boring division in baseball.


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## daaaaave (Jan 1, 2007)

I just can't wait 'til it's over with. I hate the constant baseball coverage this time of year.


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

daaaaave said:


> I just can't wait 'til it's over with. I hate the constant baseball coverage this time of year.


uh.

all im seeing is nfl coverage.

OMG DA PATRIOTS!!!2111

anyway.

im a cubs fan. so obviously i hope they hold on and win the nl central.

a cubs-yanks or cubs-sox world series would be fantastic! tv ratings would be through the roof!

alas, it looks to me like it will be 1998 all over again. padres vs. yanks. but this time the padres may win it.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Well, you do have to think short series -- no fourth or fifth pitchers. That could make a big difference. NY did well against Cleveland this year, but they also haven't faced CC Sabbathia in a game since 2004! (Not sure how that happened, but I heard that on the radio last night.) So, they didn't face the Indians' best pitcher (18 wins as of earlier this week), and there's still Fausto Carmona with 17 wins and a 3.07 ERA. The playoffs will come down to matchups. Still not so sure about the Yankees' staff.

Brian


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

odun said:


> daaaaave said:
> 
> 
> > I just can't wait 'til it's over with. I hate the constant baseball coverage this time of year.
> ...


Two of the analysts at HBO's Inside the NFL think that the New England Patriots look the like the strongest team that the NFL has fielded in the past 20 years, and COULD go undefeated this season...Every other sports analyst has them ranked as the number one team to beat in the NFL...You might hate Boston sports, but you can't argue with the Patriots' success no matter how much you might wish to...That you ridicule the Patriots so much, only displays your lack of knowledge about the 2007 NFL season...The only team that can POSSIBLY match up to them is the Colts...As for the Red Sox, they are the anti-Patriots that will always grab failure out of the jaws of success....The Red Sox will fail, but the Patriots are about three times as strong as any of their teams that won the Super Bowl...Their offense is now on par with the Colts who have won just ONE Super Bowl this decade...The Patriots had one of the greatest off seasons that any team in the NFL has ever had in my lifetime...That is not partisan, but simply the truth...


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

dave, i thought you were a dolphins fan?

if i were a red sox fan, id be sick to death of manny ramirez. he refuses to play this september, like he did last september. he couldnt give a damn if his team wins or loses.

ill never understand why sox fans continually defend manny.

remember a few years ago when he called sox ownership 'white devils'? i guess that is just manny being manny eh? i think it is manny being a racist jerk, but what do i know.

i bet brimontz is glad manny is gone from cleveland.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Manny is a great ballplayer, no doubt, but he is downright stupid. This is a guy who left paychecks worth tens of thousands of dollars in his locker. He's a guy who was already making a lot of money who went up to people in the Indians organization who were making far less than him and asked for loans so he and Julian Tavarez could go buy motorcycles or dirtbikes or something. Then there were all of his mental lapses on the field.

I don't think he's racist -- at least not intentionally. I just think he's really dumb. He's been blessed with such athletic gifts that he never needed to develop that big muscle between his ears.

Of those Indians teams from the 90s, I was glad when Belle left because he was a downright jerk and it became embarrassing to even root for him when he was here (I'm sure there are some San Fran fans who feel the same way about Bonds). Then there were guys they let leave or traded who I was okay with leaving --Bartolo Colon (only because they got so much in return for him), Robbie Alomar (eventually became a cancer in the clubhouse), Carlos Baerga (not initially, but John Hart was right about his skills dropping off), David Justice, etc. Guys I didn't want to see leave included Sandy Alomar (the guy wasn't even asking for a raise), Omar Vizquel (who was amazing to watch and I truly believe was/is a better shortstop than Ozzie Smith), Jim Thome (although they were smart not to match the contract he got), and Kenny Lofton (although he's made two trips back to Cleveland since initially leaving in '97 via trade and is with the team now).

Manny was somewhere in the middle. I loved watching him hit. Never cared much for his fielding or his mental lapses while baserunning. And yes, it did irritate me that someone that stupid was making that much money. I do think that Boston has been overpaying him, so I'm happy that they've screwed themselves in that matter.

Manny has said more than once that he would like to come back to Cleveland. What he doesn't realize is that as long as he has that contract, Cleveland would never take him back. In baseball, no one player is worth that kind of money. Not A-Rod and not Manny. Simply because one player can only do so much. Cleveland's payroll this season is only something like $62 million. Granted that's low (it's the lowest in Cleveland's division but it will go up next year), but throw Manny's salary on top of that, and he's making about 1/4 of the payroll. When you have 25
players on a roster, no one player can take up that much space.

So bottom line, yeah, I'm glad he's gone.

Brian


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## Tungsten (Dec 11, 2005)

I'm not a Manny fan by any stretch, but is there any reason to think that he's actually able to play right now? The guy can barely play the field when healthy, it hard to believe he would be an asset to Boston while lumbering around with a strained oblique. I could be wrong.

My Mets are doing their best to play themselves out of the postseason, so I'm not even thinking about the playoffs yet. If they end up blowing what was a 7 game lead a couple weeks ago I might be too distraught to watch another baseball game again. :no 

As for the AL, I'd like to see Cleveland make it to the WS, but as far as the best record goes I'm rooting for the Angels. They always seem to give the Yankees trouble and are the best bet to knock them out in the first round.


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

> I'm not a Manny fan by any stretch, but is there any reason to think that he's actually able to play right now? The guy can barely play the field when healthy, it hard to believe he would be an asset to Boston while lumbering around with a strained oblique. I could be wrong.


i understand he has been cleared by the doctors to play. but he doesnt feel he is ready. he has been taking batting practice for a while now.

at the very least they could have started him at dh and move ortiz to first for a few games (since youkilis has been out). i dont understand why boston is so scared to use ortiz at first every once in a while. i know he isnt good defensively, but he isnt that bad.

i agree with brimontz. manny is an idiot and a distraction. i know manny doesnt like to be in the spotlight, yet he is constantly doing (or not doing) stuff that is keeping him in the spotlight. ive never understood that.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Cleveland and Boston are in.

Brian


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

I predict the Phillies will beat the Mets to get into the postseason. The Cubs will limp to the finish line and get in. The Wild Card is still up for grabs though. With Colorado winning 11 games in a row they are putting pressure on the other teams. 

And yeah, the AL is really boring. 

Go Cubs


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

EagerMinnow84 said:


> I predict the Phillies will beat the Mets to get into the postseason. The Cubs will limp to the finish line and get in. The Wild Card is still up for grabs though. With Colorado winning 11 games in a row they are putting pressure on the other teams.


The Rockies are going to have make it 14 games in a row in order to make it into the playoffs, and even that might not do it.


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

Maslow said:


> EagerMinnow84 said:
> 
> 
> > I predict the Phillies will beat the Mets to get into the postseason. The Cubs will limp to the finish line and get in. The Wild Card is still up for grabs though. With Colorado winning 11 games in a row they are putting pressure on the other teams.
> ...


Yeeaahhh thats true. Its a shame too. Maybe the Padres and Diamondbacks will lose


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

Odun, how would you rank the Boston sports teams in terms of popularity in your area?


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

The Cubs are in the playoffs!!

*happiness*


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Man, the Mets are choking! Wow.

I'm pulling for the Phillies. I thought Charlie Manuel got a raw deal when he was in Cleveland, both by the organization and by many of the fans. He's a good guy and deserved better than he got when he was managing here.

Brian


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

The Rockies lost last night so they're pretty much out of the running. It was a good effort (11 game winning streak) but too late.


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

I retract my statement. Everything went the Rockies way and they still have a chance. They just need to beat the Padres tomorrow.


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

Maslow said:


> I retract my statement. Everything went the Rockies way and they still have a chance. They just need to beat the Padres tomorrow.


i respect the rockies.

i remember interleague play this year. before the series against boston everyone was calling in to the sports radio station talking about what an easy series it would be for the sox.

what happened?

the rockies kicked their butts. and they made the probable al cy young winner...josh beckett look really bad.


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

I'm going to have to go out and watch the game tonight since we only have basic cable and don't get the games.

Now where can I go where I won't have to talk to anybody?...


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

Maslow said:


> I'm going to have to go out and watch the game tonight since we only have basic cable and don't get the games.
> 
> Now where can I go where I won't have to talk to anybody?...


yeah this playoffs on tbs arrangement sucks.

leave it to mlb to screw everything up. i can only imagine that my cubs will be starting at 11:00 pm eastern during their games at arizona.


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## davemason2k (Feb 11, 2005)

I'm a Cubs fan, so I'm pretty pumped! I also hope the Rockies win today against the Padres. Nice to see them playing so well the last few weeks. I feel good for their fans.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

That was among the most intense baseball games I have ever seen tonight. Too bad the game had to end on such a controversial play, but I think the Rockies would have scored again in the 13th inning anyway. 

I would love to see a Rockies-Diamondbacks NLCS. And as usual... death to the Yankees.


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

That was an incredible game! Yeah, there were a couple controversial calls, like Atkin's hit that should have been a home run. On that final play, the Padre's catcher blocked the plate and lay his foot down so his cleats were facing the runner, which is kind of a dirty play. Holiday was kneed in the chin somehow, which nearly knocked him out and he did a face-plant into the dirt.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

PGVan said:


> That was among the most intense baseball games I have ever seen tonight. Too bad the game had to end on such a controversial play, but I think the Rockies would have scored again in the 13th inning anyway.


I don't know if you can say that. If he were out at the plate, which given the replay he was, that would have resulted in two outs and a runner at first.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

That was a great game last night.

And yes, putting the playoffs on TBS is lame. I don't think I've watched TBS since AOL/Time Warner killed WCW by taking it off of TBS and TNT other than a few minutes total of Braves' games in the past 6 years.

Brian


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

Whoaaah... post season for Rockies baseball. What a concept!


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

I've been watching baseball since 92, and I don't think I can remember a time where there seems to be such an imbalance of talent between the two leagues. The last couple of years there've been some american league teams that have missed the playoffs (by quite a long way, in some cases), who arguably have been as good or better than almost all the NL playoff qualifiers.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

The Red Sox won too....


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## davemason2k (Feb 11, 2005)

TBS is horrible! They need to let NBC and Fox do all the games.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Holy wow. Yanks getting destroyed 9-3 right now.


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

davemason2k said:


> TBS is horrible! They need to let NBC and Fox do all the games.


of course.

all playoff games should be on broadcast television, instead of cable.

and dick stockton doing baseball? wtf? i think i last saw him do the lakers vs. celtics on cbs....circa 1985.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

This is a heck of a game between NY and Cleveland today.


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## User57854 (Dec 26, 2006)

Edit: 'Canadian soldiers' they were not. Those pesky insects were apparently a type of 'Midge'.

:nw :nw Cleveland Midges


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

There it is. Wow, what a game. Ends on a 3-2, two out pitch in the bottom of the eleventh. Yankees and their eighteen trillion dollar payroll are down two games to none.


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## User57854 (Dec 26, 2006)

:clap :clap :clap


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

INDIANS ARE AWESOME


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Great games. Of course I'm happy that Cleveland's up 2-0 on the Yanks, but they're going back to NY so it will be tough. CC could pitch game 5 if needed, but all season long, Carmona's been even better than CC, who will get a lot of votes for the Cy Young Award along with Beckett on Boston (who will probably win it).

The other games have been good too.

Putting the games on TBS is lame, though. They should be on broadcast television. All of them. And the idiocy with having the games overlap so the first few innings of a game are on TNT before switching back to TBS when the previous game ends is beyond lame.

At least the ALCS will be on FOX. Too bad for the NL that the NLCS will be on TBS as well. Some of the announcers are okay, I guess, but for the Cleveland games, I turn down the sound and listen to Cleveland's radio broadcasts instead.

Brian


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

brimontz said:


> At least the ALCS will be on FOX. Too bad for the NL that the NLCS will be on TBS as well. Some of the announcers are okay, I guess, but for the Cleveland games, I turn down the sound and listen to Cleveland's radio broadcasts instead.


The announcers for the Rockies games have been horrible. I may listen to the local radio broadcast while watching the game tomorrow.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

The Red Sox won again too...2-0.....They might win it all if they don't have to play the Yankees which they usually choke against.....


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

Maslow said:


> brimontz said:
> 
> 
> > At least the ALCS will be on FOX. Too bad for the NL that the NLCS will be on TBS as well. Some of the announcers are okay, I guess, but for the Cleveland games, I turn down the sound and listen to Cleveland's radio broadcasts instead.
> ...


hmm. who is doing the rockies game? for the one game playoff with san diego, it was don orsillo who is the tv voice of the red sox on nesn. he isnt too bad. i dont watch the sox games on nesn much...because...id rather listen on the radio.

same thing with the playoffs, really. on espn radio gary thorne and steve phillips are doing the rockies series. they arent bad.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

I know it was a game-ending winning homer, but boy did Manny pose a bit too much after hitting that ball. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets plunked at some point for that kind of display. Of course, it will be chalked up to (like everything else he does) "Manny being Manny."

What kind of nonsensical phrase is that? Like you shouldn't be upset by what he does just because he's Manny? So, I suppose I could do whatever I want to do as long as I get enough people to say "That's just Brian being Brian."

By the way, no one should really be mad at Marion Jones. That's just Marion being Marion....

Sorry for that off-topic rant. That's just Brian being Brian.

Brian


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

It is what it is.



> hmm. who is doing the rockies game? for the one game playoff with san diego, it was don orsillo who is the tv voice of the red sox on nesn. he isnt too bad. i dont watch the sox games on nesn much...because...id rather listen on the radio.


They weren't that bad. They just don't know anything about the Rockies. I like Drew Goodman and George Frazier because they're fans of the Rockies.


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## winnipegjets (Oct 1, 2007)

416girl said:


> Edit: 'Canadian soldiers' they were not. Those pesky insects were apparently a type of 'Midge'.
> 
> :nw :nw Cleveland Midges


You know your screwed when even the insects are conspiring to make the Yankees lose. I really feel bad for that pitcher who couldn't deal with the bugs.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

I don't. They were all dealing with the bugs, not just him.

Brian


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Me either. I don't think I could bring myself to feel sorry for that team if half of them suddenly woke up with an advanced stage of leprosy.

So now both NLDS series are done, in most undramatic fashion. Both ALDS could end today as well, though I have a feeling neither one will. I don't think there's any way the Yankees don't hit Westbrook, who is very average. Their offense has to come alive at some point. Of course, they're pinning the fate of their season on attempting to reanimate the corpse of Roger Clemens. I don't think that'll go too well, but they'll slug their way to a win.

Angels have the advantage in their game as well. Schilling isn't quite what he used to be, and the halos had a dominant 54-27 home record this year.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Westbrook is hot-and-cold. When he's hot, he's almost as good as CC and Carmona. Not quite but almost (hence the contract extension earlier this season). He was injured at the beginning of the season, which skewed his numbers a bit. After coming back and getting into the swing of things, he did much better.

So it depends on which Westbrook and which Clemens come to the mound today. I'd like the series to end in NY (because I have Van Halen tickets next door to the Jake on Wednesday), so we'll see. I wouldn't be surprised if the series doesn't come back to Cleveland, though.

Brian


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Well I guess it's Byrd vs. Mussina today. I guess my comments for this game would be the same as the last one. Byrd is quite the flyball pitcher and sports a career .311/.359/.492 platoon split against lefthanded hitters, so they've smacked him around pretty good. The Yankees lineup is loaded with lefties and switch hitters.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Oops, apparently it's Wang tonight. Interesting. So, Pettitte for Game 5 if it goes that far, I assume.

1-0 already on a Sizemore homerun. Wow. Wang surrendered just 9 hr in almost 200 innings during the regular season, and that's now three in just a few innings of postseason work.


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## User57854 (Dec 26, 2006)

sell it...


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Wang exits. Bases loaded no one out in the second.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

This is a dogfight. Their only in the third inning!!


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Indians, Division Champs, Yankees suck!


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Byrd didn't win 15 in the regular season for nothing. Yeah, he had a bad outing against the Yankees 6 months ago, but a lot has changed since then for both teams. He wasn't dominant tonight, but he did what he had to do.

The Indians won by being patient at the plate. I hope they keep it up with Boston, which will be a much tougher series. And I'm not saying that to dog on the Yankees, but I'd take Boston's pitching over NY's in a heartbeat. Yanks might have a better lineup 1-9 than Boston's, but the difference isn't that much. Throw in Boston's better pitching, and it will be a much tougher series.

The thing I'm most happy about is that CC and Fausto only had to pitch once each in this series, allowing them to each pitch twice in the next round if needed. That helps, but Boston's going to be tough.

Brian


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## Buerhle (Mar 6, 2006)

ya, I think Boston will be more difficult.


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Well, game one tomorrow. Any predicitons. I've got a bad feeling for the tribe. But hey, we were 0-6 against the Wankees.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

I'll pass on the predictions. It's going to be a tough series for both teams. The Red Sox are helped by pitching coach John Farrell, who at one time pitched for the Indians and spent 5 years with Cleveland as the director of player development before becoming Boston's pitching coach -- talk about your insight into a team. The Indians are helped by Trot Nixon, who spent his entire career in Boston before joining the Indians this year.

There are other connections. Manny Ramirez, Coco Crisp, and Julian Tavarez all started in Cleveland, although Crisp is the only one who was here recently. 

Wedge was drafted by Boston and started his playing career there. Francona worked for the Tribe in 2001.

Definitely an intriguing matchup. Boston did well against the Indians 2-5 or whatever the record was, but they did have 2 wins against Cliff Lee and one against Jeremy Sowers. Plus, the regular season records don't necessarily mean anything, as evidenced by the Yankees sweeping Cleveland during the regular season. There were two 1-0 games, one win by Boston (Matsuzaka over Sabathia) and one by Cleveland (Carmona over Beckett). Obviously both of those games could have gone either way. Byrd got one win and Lester got a win over Westbrook. I expect a lot of close games. Boston took 2 out of 3 in May at Boston and Boston took 3 out 4 in July in Cleveland during Cleveland's post-All Star Break slump where they struggled against everybody.

Here were the games:

5/28 -- Boston 5 Cleveland 3 (Schilling beat Lee)
5/29 -- Boston 4 Cleveland 2 (Beckett beat Sowers)
5/30 -- Cleveland 8 Boston 4 (Byrd beat Matsuzaka)

7/23 -- Boston 6 Cleveland 2 (Lester beat Westbrook)
7/24 -- Boston 1 Cleveland 0 (Matsuzaka beat Sabathia)
7/25 -- Cleveland 1 Boston 0 (Carmona beat Beckett)
7/26 -- Boston 14 Cleveland 9 (Tavarez beat Lee)

Brian


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Thanks Bri, good info. it's just that big poppy and manny skeer me.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

The Indians' fairytale ends tonight...Sorry, but someone should have told Cleveland that heroes often die in fairytales....I just don't see the Indians prevailing over both the Yankees AND the Red Sox.Not with the Sox pitching, hitting, and especially home field advantage....It's easy to play on the road up 2-0, it's very different at 0-0 or when you are down...I think that Home Field Advantage has been a lot more significant this year then most people give it credit...Start New York and the Angels at home, and I could very well envision them playing in the ALCS series instead...BOSTON IN SIX!!


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

You're not letting your location affect your prediction, are you? 

It's not a fairy tale when you end the season tied with the best record in all of baseball. 162-seasons kind of minimize the fairy tale aspect. You forget how tough the AL Central is. The AL East has NY and Boston and nobody else. The AL Central has Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, and Chicago. Yes, Minnesota and Chicago didn't have great records, but put them in a series with Baltimore, Toronto, or Tampa Bay, and I'd put money down on the two AL Central teams. A main part of the reason Detroit didn't get the wild card is due to how well Cleveland played against them this year.

I don't think the first rounds would have been any different regardless of where the series started, but at the same point, home field advantage is a bigger issue in a five-game series than in a seven-game series with the 2-2-1 format. 

If the Indians pitchers control Boston's hitters the way they controlled New York's (which put up more runs in the regular season than Boston), you could be in for a surprise. The series will be tougher for Cleveland since Boston has better pitching than NY, but NY had the better offense. 

The series may go seven. Don't count Cleveland short. NY did and look where it got them. Beckett 1-1 versus Cleveland this year. Matsuzaka 1-1 versus Cleveland this year. Two 1-0 games. Boston could see Sabathia 3 times and Carmona twice.

Brian


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

> Yes, Minnesota and Chicago didn't have great records, but put them in a series with Baltimore, Toronto, or Tampa Bay, and I'd put money down on the two AL Central teams.


Um, the Jays were a much better team than Tampa or Baltimore. Don't make the mistake of thinking that that any non-NY or Boston AL East team is the same. Everyone seems to do that, and it's annoying.

Minnesota had a down year. It's hard to tell how good or bad they really are. The White Sox, imo, truly are a bad team. Keeping in mind that small sample sizes make it hard to predict anything with certainty, no way would I favour them over Toronto in a series if they played right now.


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## Tungsten (Dec 11, 2005)

UBALDOMANIA! Man, the Rockies are looking impressive. The AL winner better not get too confident. Everyone thought Detroit was a shoo-in last year against St. Louis and look what happened.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

The Rockies are tough, and they'll probably be done in less than seven games, so they'll be nice and rested for the World Series, unlike the ALCS which will probably go 7 games.

Cleveland broke serve last night, scoring a post-season record 7 runs in the 11th to win 13-6, with former Red Sox Trot Nixon driving in the go-ahead run. Boston's big three went down 1-2-3 against one of Cleveland's lesser relievers, Mastny, in the 10th. Series now shifts back to Cleveland. 

Brian


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

Winterdave, 
Guess the fairytale isn't over yet, huh? 1-1 and back to Cland


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

The Red Sox deserved to lose when they allowed Gagne to pitch again.
The guy hasn't pitched a decent inning since the Red Sox signed him, and you put him in a tie game in the playoffs? :fall


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## odun (Nov 9, 2003)

oh come on dave.

these damned sox fans were creaming their knickers when you all traded a front line starter (gabbard) and a decent of prospect (murphy) for an overweight, injury prone relief pitcher who was good 4 years ago.

okay. ill go read some peter gammons now...so he can tell us all how much of a genius theo epstein is...


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

the tribe is tough in tribeland. This could get interesting.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Zephyr said:


> > Yes, Minnesota and Chicago didn't have great records, but put them in a series with Baltimore, Toronto, or Tampa Bay, and I'd put money down on the two AL Central teams.
> 
> 
> Um, the Jays were a much better team than Tampa or Baltimore. Don't make the mistake of thinking that that any non-NY or Boston AL East team is the same. Everyone seems to do that, and it's annoying.
> ...


Toronto is my favorite team in the east. My wife and I have been to Skydome for a couple of games against Boston. The elderly couple sitting next to us assumed we were rooting for Boston since we were from America. We assured them that we were rooting for Toronto, though.

The White Sox aren't as bad as their record. They aren't too far removed from their World Series championship.

Brian


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

What time is the game tonight?


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

brimontz said:


> Zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > > Yes, Minnesota and Chicago didn't have great records, but put them in a series with Baltimore, Toronto, or Tampa Bay, and I'd put money down on the two AL Central teams.
> ...


K. Which games were those? Just wondering.



> The White Sox aren't as bad as their record. They aren't too far removed from their World Series championship.


Timewise, they're aren't far removed, but on the field things have changed. In 2005 they had a lot of players peaking simultaneously, who have subsequently come back to earth. Their pitching was outstanding 05, and while their hitting wasn't great, it was enough to get by. Last year, they had one of the best hitting teams in the league but their pitching was much worse. This year they combined the worst of both years, and had awful hitting and crummy pitching.

FWIW, there's a sabermetric projection system that had the Sox falling off tremendously this year, to somewhere in the neighbourhood of low 70s win total. A lot of old school people wrote that off as meaningless nerdy stat stuff, sure that Chicago, coming off consecutive 90+ win seasons, would continue to be a force. They ended up with 72 wins. Even I was surprised by the low projection, but they managed to fulfill it.

It doesn't necessarily take very long for that kind of decline to happen. The Jays won their second consecutive WS in 1993, and in 95 tied with the Twins for the worst record in all of baseball, with a roster that wasn't all that much different from the 92-93 years.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

FairleighCalm said:


> What time is the game tonight?


7 PM start for the ALCS tonight, as both leagues are playing tonight.

Brian


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Zephyr said:


> brimontz said:
> 
> 
> > Um, the Jays were a much better team than Tampa or Baltimore. Don't make the mistake of thinking that that any non-NY or Boston AL East team is the same. Everyone seems to do that, and it's annoying.
> ...


K. Which games were those? Just wondering.[/quote]

It was a couple of years ago when we were up there on Canada Day weekend. The couple had coupons or something for tickets the next day (which actually was Canada Day), and they gave them to us, which was really nice. So, we got to see fireworks being shot off in the middle of the day inside the dome. Very cool.

Brian


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Oh, I looked up your game. It seems it was in 2001. They don't do fireworks anymore at Rogers Centre (formerly Skydome).


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

2001 sounds about right.

Who would have thought through the first 3 games of this ALCS that it would be Jake Westbrook who would have pitched the best (he pitched 2/3s of an inning longer than Beckett while giving up the same number of runs)? It didn't totally surprise me, as when he's on, he's on, and he is a guy who won 14 games in '04 and then 15 games both in '05 and '06, but I still wouldn't have predicted that ever looking at the other starters in this series. Getting out of that bases-loaded-no-out jam without giving up a run was a thing of beauty.

Ever since his second homer pose of the post-season (not as bad as his pose during the first round against the Angels but still a pose), the Indians pitchers have done a better job with Manny. Ortiz too. That's good for Cleveland, as it looked through the first game and a half of the series that they were being too careful in pitching to those guys, and it hurt them.

Brian


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

What's up with the LACK of coverage of the game tonight?? Sportscenter sucks. I was started to wonder if there was a game tonight??


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

WinterDave said:


> The Indians' fairytale ends tonight...Sorry, but someone should have told Cleveland that heroes often die in fairytales....I just don't see the Indians prevailing over both the Yankees AND the Red Sox.Not with the Sox pitching, hitting, and especially home field advantage....It's easy to play on the road up 2-0, it's very different at 0-0 or when you are down...I think that Home Field Advantage has been a lot more significant this year then most people give it credit...Start New York and the Angels at home, and I could very well envision them playing in the ALCS series instead...BOSTON IN SIX!!


You want to rethink your prediction?  It can't happen how you predicted. The best you can hope for is Boston in 7. I predicted a seven-game series, but I'll be very happy if you were right about the series only going six games. Or even better 5.

I'm still not predicting a winner either way, and I guess I'll stick with my seven-game prediction. I do remember what the Sox did to the Yanks in '04.

Brian


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

FairleighCalm said:


> What's up with the LACK of coverage of the game tonight?? Sportscenter sucks. I was started to wonder if there was a game tonight??


What do you expect from the mainstream media, coverage of the Indians? Yeah, right. They were pissed the moment NY got knocked out. Game two wasn't the Tribe beat the Yanks, it was the bugs beat the Yanks. Game four wasn't the Tribe knocked out the Yanks, it was "this might be the end for Torre, A-Rod, Clemens, etc." I've lost almost all respect for ESPN at this point. I used to watch Sportscenter every day. Now, I usually just go to Yahoo's sports section, read the stories there, and leave it at that.

Brian


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Not counting out the Red Sox just yet, but a Cleveland-Colorado World Series could be a blast to watch. Then again, Phillies-Rockies was supposed to be good considering both teams were on such a hot streak, and look what happened.

No matter who wins the ALCS, I think the Rockies have way too much momentum to be derailed by anybody. 

It's too bad that Cleveland vs. Colorado is a marketing nightmare. Just being honest.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

I am ready to eat my serving of Crow and Humble Pie....The Cleveland Indians have played much better in the ALCS than the Red Sox! They deserve to win and will do so....Especially considering the disparity in the two teams salaries! (Cleveland has the 23rd salary in baseball)... I got way over confident after the Red Sox beat a weak and injured Angels' team! I forgot that they are the polar opposite of the New England Patriots (who no Ohio team has even come close to beating this year) The Red Sox team has been absent in the ALCS except for Beckett, Ramirez, an injured Ortiz, and Lowell to a degree...They will always clutch defeat from the hands of victory whenever given a chance while the Patriots have a great coach, front office, and team leaders who take less money to play for the Patriots...I will consign myself to watching the best damn football team in the NFL! Go Patriots! Go Rockies! Never forget, the Patriots ARE NOT the Red Sox, they are 180 degree opposites in the world of sports! J.D Drew, Lugo, Crisp, Gagne, Dice K, Pena etc. =an extremely poor front office with too much money to burn....The Red Sox and Yankees deserved what they got while the Indians and Rockies are baseballs' true champions....Baseball will never be a true sport without a real salary cap! Just remember, we have the Patriots! :b


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

I used to really dislike Boston, nearly as much as the Yankees (go look at old posts, and I'm sure you'll find one if you want), but I don't dislike them as much anymore. I have lost a lot of respect for Manny Ramirez this post-season with his posing after every home run as if it was the game-winning shot in Game 7 of the World Series (starting with his shot in the ALDS), but other than him, I don't dislike them.

I still think the finances in baseball are screwed up. Yes, a lot of teams in this year's post-season are lower-salaried than Boston or NY, but I'm still angry every time I see Jim Thome or Manny step to the plate and set another career milestone in another team's uniform. The Indians should have been able to afford to keep either one if not both considering they sold out Jacobs Field for 455 straight games during that era.

No comment on the Patriots, and don't get me wrong, I'm not counting the Sox out yet. They're very good, and the memory of '04 is still there.

Brian


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

> I am ready to eat my serving of Crow and Humble Pie....The Cleveland Indians have played much better in the ALCS than the Red Sox!


LOL, if it's any consolation, I"m shocked like you. But you are right. The Indians just look a lot more interested in winning and playing hard. GO TRIBE!!


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Has Joel Skinner been fired yet? Holding Lofton when Ramirez wouldn't have even tried to throw him out turned the whole ****ing game around. :mum


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

I want to congratulate the Cleveland Indians! This series and even game seven could have gone the other way....They were the better team for at least half of the series, and with a payroll that was probably a third that of Boston's....I was 0 and 2 at predicting this series and hardly deserve to crow...To be honest, if any Boston pitcher other than Beckett was pitching game 5 then Cleveland would have probably won the ALCS...It was a strange series with changes of momentum in the series and even game seven...Change a couple of things and Cleveland would have won the ALCS....I couldn't believe the sloppy play and errors by both teams in game seven....Kudos to a great Cleveland team that shared the most wins in baseball this year, and with a significantly lower salary than Boston did! They ARE champions! :clap Dave


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

That's why I never came out and predicted that Cleveland would win. I figured Boston would win. The series was pretty much over after the first inning of Game 6. Drew's grand slam ended it. Brutal last three games.

I was right in my prediction of seven games.

I'm not a Sox fan in the least, but I guess I hope they win the World Series due to my loyalty to the AL. I probably won't watch even one inning of it though.

Cleveland's sports torture continues. No city with 3 major sports team has gone this long without at least one championship. Even Boston, at its Buckner-induced worst, still had the Celtics winning championships and later the Patriots. No fan in a city with 3 teams or more can understand Cleveland's torture. (And people around here wonder why I argue so strongly when people try to claim that OSU didn't beat Miami.)

Brian


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Why was Lofton held up at third in the top of the seventh? That was a huge mistake. Then the following bases loaded GIDP. The final score doesn't show it, but that was a close game until late.


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

I had predicted Boston vs Colorado from the beginning of the playoffs....but I admit that when Boston was down 3-1 I didn't think they would come back.

*Anyway, I think that Colorado is awesome and they will win in 5.*


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

PGVan said:


> Has Joel Skinner been fired yet? Holding Lofton when Ramirez wouldn't have even tried to throw him out turned the whole ****ing game around. :mum


Skinner should definitely be fired.

The thing about Skinner is that he's notorious for sending runners when he has no business doing so. Many times a Victor Martinez or Travis Hafner or some other slower runner was sent throughout the past couple of seasons by Skinner only to be thrown out at the plate. Last night, when he has one of the fastest players on the team in Lofton (even at 40 years of age), he puts the brakes on him. He screwed up big time -- Lofton should have run through the brake sign. But Lofton was probably a little gun-shy after being called out at second an inning or two earlier when he was, in fact, safe, as the replays clearly showed.

I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome of the game though, but it was a crucial mistake by Skinner.

Brian


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Strength said:


> I had predicted Boston vs Colorado from the beginning of the playoffs....but I admit that when Boston was down 3-1 I didn't think they would come back.
> 
> *Anyway, I think that Colorado is awesome and they will win in 5.*


Colorado finished strong, but the AL is WAY tougher than the NL this year. Even if they do win, it will take more than 5 games to do so.

Brian


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## Buerhle (Mar 6, 2006)

brimontz said:


> Strength said:
> 
> 
> > I had predicted Boston vs Colorado from the beginning of the playoffs....but I admit that when Boston was down 3-1 I didn't think they would come back.
> ...


I agree.

actually, I think Boston will win. prob in 5 games.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Colorado faces the challenge of sitting for 8 days between games. That could break their hot streak.

Brian


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

Yeah that's probably not good for them, but I think they can overcome it. The AL is much better than the NL (I don't even follow the NL during the regular season and dislike most of the teams in that league), and Boston is a stronger team on paper, but I think the Rockies are hot enough to pull through with the upset.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

I guess Colorado cooled off a teensy bit during that layoff. How long was it? Nine days or something? That's an eternity in baseball.

They'll leading tonight 1-0 top one right now, but I think this series will be over quick.


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

Didn't happen, they lost 2-1. They failed to break serve in Boston, so they're in trouble. We'll see how things go when they're in Colorado.

Brian


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## Tungsten (Dec 11, 2005)

It's not looking too good for the Rockies. I'd like to at least see them win a couple at home and send it back to Boston.

Should be interesting to see how Ortiz handles the glove at first as well as Manny trying to cover the spacious LF at Coors. Colorado has the defensive advantage at home, but then again with Josh Fogg pitching game 3 they're going to need it.

I'm bummed that Wakefield isn't on the roster for Boston. I was interested in seeing how his knuckleball would work at high altitude.


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

I was wrong. Boston is dominant. Daisuke is beating them on their home field which is supposed to be an offence-park.
I think the 8 day break killed their momentum, and it doesn't help facing 3 hot pitchers + Okajima and Papelbon.


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## daaaaave (Jan 1, 2007)

da RED SOX!!!!!!!!!1 WOOOOOHHHH!!


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## Derekgnr (Nov 9, 2003)

Red Sox are World Series Champions!! Woooooooo!!


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

:banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana


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## brimontz (Nov 10, 2003)

That didn't take too long, did it?

Brian


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

Well, at least they got a little taste of winning.


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## Tungsten (Dec 11, 2005)

The World Series is in a serious rut. Over the last 4 years the losing teams have combined for just 1 win. There hasn't even been a game 6 since 2003.
Kind of reminds me of that stretch in the 90's where the Super Bowl turned out to be a blowout every year. Hopefully next year it'll be more competitive, but the NL needs to get it's act together.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)




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## Gerard (Feb 3, 2004)

Congrats to the Red Sox! I wanted the Rockies to win their first. Oh well.

Gerard


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