# Incest, approve or disapprove?



## queenbanana

Not referring to sex alone, but the concept of developing romantic feelings or sexual desires towards a sibling, cousin, or any other family member. 
Personally, I think it's okay as long as they don't attempt to create a fetus.


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## TPower

It's weird, but not particularly wrong, unless they want to have children.


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## Luna Sea

It's twisted, and if they act on it, I'm happy for everyone they know to stop talking to them and treat them like they don't exist.


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## Lonelygirl1986

I don't think fancying your own cousin is as bad as a sibling or parent that's just ewww. I read in an agony aunt column someone was sleeping with their nephew now that is gross.


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## Rossy

Nah,nah its disgusting.


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## godhelpme2

it's pretty gross to me. and they'll likely end up with deformed babies, so there definitely is something wrong with that picture..


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## theseventhkey

:blank


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## Nekomata

I totally approve. It's actually a pretty hot thought to me too. Just so long as a string of family members arn't born from it, that's all that matters.


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## Zeppelin

It is gross and weird. It is also wrong. I voted for the its disgusting option.


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## Monotony

It's odd But I don't particularly care unless they try to reproduce.


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## Lasair

All to their own


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## Dissonance

I considered myself in a position where it's my sister or cousin and just found it disgusting. :/ Then again maybe it's because they are younger then me and my aunt is more my age, but it's still just wrong, bloodlines are what they are, I'm sure there is no reason to try go after someone I'm related to.


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## bsd3355

It ain't right for biology and for family dynamics


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## Twelve Keyz

it's pretty gross. But I think the whole cousin thing is kinda blown out of proportion. Between immediate family members (siblings or parent-child) it's disgusting though uke


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## Fruitcake

In some forms it disgusts me, but that doesn't make it wrong and I don't disapprove of it. So I put people are free to do whatever they want. Though I don't think it's okay if someone is coerced into it.


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## Andre

TristanS said:


> It's twisted, and if they act on it, I'm happy for everyone they know to stop talking to them and treat them like they don't exist.


Do you know an incest couple?


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## DiceOfDiscord

I don't judge cousin relationships. But anything else, er, no. No. :no


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## MobiusX

it's normal= cousin, siblings, But parent and son, daughter etc.. isn't.


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## AwkBoy

If it's just having sex with a cousin then it's not so bad, but if it's with a sister or immediate family member than it's a no no.


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## theseventhkey

Some of you in here are some sick b%$tards. I mean some of you, would actually get down with your mothers sister/brother kids, when you have the same grandparents. Even animals try to get away from their direct descendants as possible. A bunch of "savages" here.:um


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## Tania I

Disapprove.
but i don't vote because i don't like the poll wordings.
it's too much health risk and it's too inappropriate to call a family member disgusting. 
However ruined or twisted their mind and actions.
However we love God, human tend to do the opposite of what God wants. A punishable law won't hold human from falling. Just as warning.
besides, at the minimum, the only opposite gender you can trust is family.
it will be disappointing to broke that kind of trust


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## fetisha

I disapprove 10000%


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## jr chzbrgr

godhelpme2 said:


> it's pretty gross to me. and they'll likely end up with deformed babies, so there definitely is something wrong with that picture..


Actually, from what I've been told it's not always that simple. Maybe this is just another one of those things you hear over the years to prevent people from actually engaging in the 'act' with your relatives. Kind of like saying 'If you're out in the rain, you'll get sick!' :doh


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## Strwbrry

No. Just no.


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## millenniumman75

TPower said:


> It's weird, but not particularly wrong, unless they want to have children.


Like "Wincest: Keep It in the Family"?

The children end up with recessive genetic disorders that are hidden in the family genes. We are talking about children, not science experiments.

John Cassavetes, the former actor and director who said it was okay, using the ever popular "if it isn't hurting anyone, it's okay" BS, has a screw loose.


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## Loveless

This is a weird Thread topic lmao.


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## MobiusX

A report from the Journal of Genetic Counseling indicates that cousin couples have only 2 percent more of a chance of having children with birth defects as compared to unrelated couples.


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## Octal

Its just wrong, completely disapprove.


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## komorikun

AwkBoy said:


> If it's just having sex with a cousin then it's not so bad, but if it's with a sister or immediate family member than it's a no no.


I agree. The increased risk in birth defects is not much. Cousin marriage shouldn't be encouraged though. In many Muslim countries it is very common, so after several generations you are even more related to your first cousins. Because your parents were most likely cousins and your grandparents and on and on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Biological_aspects



> After repeated generations of cousin marriage the actual genetic relationship between two people is closer than the most immediate relationship would suggest. In Pakistan, where there has been cousin marriage for generations and the current rate may exceed 50%, one study estimated infant mortality at 12.7 percent for married double first cousins, 7.9 percent for first cousins, 9.2 percent for first cousins once removed/double second cousins, 6.9 percent for second cousins, and 5.1 percent among nonconsanguineous progeny. Among double first cousin progeny, 41.2 percent of prereproductive deaths were associated with the expression of detrimental recessive genes, with equivalent values of 26.0, 14.9, and 8.1 percent for first cousins, first cousins once removed/double second cousins, and second cousins respectively.





> The Middle East has uniquely high rates of cousin marriage among the world's regions. Certain Middle Eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia, have rates of marriage to first or second cousins that may exceed 50%.[3] Iraq was estimated in one study to have a rate of 33%,[89] and figures for Iran and Afghanistan have been estimated in the range of 30-40%.[3] Though on the lower end, some parts of Turkey nevertheless have rates above 20%.[89]
> 
> All states in the Persian Gulf currently require advance genetic screening for all prospective married couples. Qatar was the last Gulf nation to institute mandatory screening in 2009, mainly to warn related couples who are planning marriage about any genetic risks they may face. The current rate of cousin marriage there is 54%, an increase of 12-18% over the previous generation.[90] A report by the Dubai-based Centre for Arab Genomic Studies (CAGS) in September 2009 found that Arabs have one of the world's highest rates of genetic disorders, nearly two-thirds of which are linked to consanguinity. Research from CAGS and others suggests consanguinity is declining in Lebanon and Egypt and among Palestinians, but is increasing in Morocco, Mauritania and Sudan


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## UltraShy

Keep in mind there are states that allow you to marry first cousins. And if you're not in one of those states, you can simply travel to a state that allows it and have a marriage that every other state will recognize as legally valid.

WI only allows cousins to marry if the female is age 55+. Seems my state only cares about the genetic risk, not the "ick" factor. Come to think of it, all my cousins probably are over 55, though it's not like I want to marry them.


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## forex

millenniumman75 said:


> Like "Wincest: Keep It in the Family"?
> 
> *The children end up with recessive genetic disorders* that are hidden in the family genes. We are talking about children, not science experiments.
> 
> John Cassavetes, the former actor and director who said it was okay, using the ever popular "if it isn't hurting anyone, it's okay" BS, has a screw loose.


that is a lie , in some countries its a common thing to marry a cousin 
and never got genetic disorders. i went to some Arab countries where that 
is a common too and never did i see disabled kid. i eventually seen one in a grocery shop and i kept looking bc it was awkward iv'e never seen one.


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## UltraShy

I suppose marrying a cousin has certain advantages. No awkward meeting of the in-laws as you already know 'em. Having your aunt as your mother-in-law, etc...makes for some interesting family bonds.


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## Define Me

Am I the only one mortified by this thread?


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## Define Me

forex said:


> that is a lie , in some countries its a common thing to marry a cousin
> and never got genetic disorders. i went to some Arab countries where that
> is a common too and never did i see disabled kid. i eventually seen one in a grocery shop and i kept looking bc it was awkward iv'e never seen one.


I have a relative who married his cousin and guess what: first child is a handicapped. And I have another relative, same thing, but second child handicapped.

Now they go to the doctor before deciding for another child to look for bad genes. Their second child is normal (the first relative).....


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## forex

Define Me said:


> I have a relative who married his cousin and guess what: first child is a handicapped. And I have another relative, same thing, but second child handicapped.
> 
> Now they go to the doctor before deciding for another child to look for bad genes. Their second child is normal (the first relative).....


weird.


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## Ironpain

I can't believe 18 percent said Incest is okay, Who are these Mother Sleepers doing it with their mom's who think it's okay? Thank goodness for the 37 who think it's creepy whew, as attractive as my sisters are and I've seen the glances and the hey your sister is hot comments from people at school I would never ever ever entertain that idea not even in my creepiest dreams, so yeah (shivers) Yeah no thank you. I don't care if my sister is Cindy Crawford I wouldn't touch her with a 10 foot pole.


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## rymo

It's. Just. Wrong.

Some people are saying cousin is okay. Some people are clearly troubled.


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## millenniumman75

rymo said:


> It's. Just. Wrong.
> 
> Some people are saying cousin is okay. Some people are clearly troubled.


Even relations with a cousin is not okay. It's gross and it's like a cop out. The rest of the world is out there trying to get it with a non-relative.

The Royal Family has some of this "inbreeding". Look how some of them turned out.

I can't believe people are saying this is okay. When did this suddenly become acceptable? It's ludicrous, and I am NOT talking about the rapper who can't spell.


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## LoneLioness

I voted neutral, I think its only ok if they didn't grow up around each other though. However either way if they want to they should be allowed to as long as they're over 18.


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## SilentLyric

does second or third cousins still count as incest?


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## TPower

Gotta love how some people are brainwashed by society into saying 'That's wrong' without any reasoning whatsoever.


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## sarafinanickelbocker

SilentLuke said:


> does second or third cousins still count as incest?


Don't think so. I think you're going with more immediate family members like parents, children, siblings, grandparents, perhaps first cousins...

:blank


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## Marvel Fantatic

TPower said:


> Gotta love how some people are brainwashed by society into saying 'That's wrong' without any reasoning whatsoever.


Being your parents and siblings aren't good enough reasons for you? Do you think people that look down on bestiality are also brain washed?


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## TPower

Marvel Fantatic said:


> Being your parents and siblings aren't good enough reasons for you? Do you think people that look down on bestiality are also brain washed?


Well.. you can't have an animal's consent. Besides, if a dog screws a woman, I'd say he is doing most of the abuse. While it's kinda gross, the animal is not raped in that situation.

Anyway, saying 'you can't because it's your sister/brother' is the same as 'you can't sleep with him because he's black'.

Both aren't arguments, they are trivial facts.

Every person I've seen arguing against incest would just say 'But it's wrong!!' or 'But, you have the same blood!' or 'That's gross!'.

Are those legit arguments?
Not really.

I find sex with men gross as a heterosexual male, yet, I don't find it necessarily wrong. People can do what they want if they're ok with it.


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## Luna Sea

TPower said:


> Anyway, saying 'you can't because it's your sister/brother' is the same as 'you can't sleep with him because he's black'.


No. Incest is factually bad for any population. Drawing the line at "as long as they don't have children" is a terrible idea that they wouldn't follow. It's not because we've been told it; it's millions of years of knowledge that mating with people who aren't the same blood as you is a bad idea.


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## Unknown88

Personally it creeps me out, the thought of anything going on between me and a family member feels extremely wrong. However what consenting adults do behind closed doors is their own business. My only real concern is the possibility of child-grooming if it was legal.


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## Brad

Nothing i'd ever do under any circumstance, but hey, to each their own. Not my business if others do it, and I don't care. That's their life not mine.


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## TPower

TristanS said:


> No. Incest is factually bad for any population. *Drawing the line at "as long as they don't have children" is a terrible idea that they wouldn't follow*. It's not because we've been told it; it's millions of years of knowledge that mating with people who aren't the same blood as you is a bad idea.


I must agree with the bolded line.

It's actually true that people would still get their moms/sisters/cousins pregnant anyway.


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## metamorphosis

Are you serious? I consider myself a liberal but incest is just wrong. One problem is that it might not be completely consensual. And if there is a large age difference and/or intelligence level one of the person's may not know what they are actually getting into. Second, there is a good probability that manipulation, cohersion, and other psychological games are being played by one of the participants. Third, even if it seems consensual and all is well and good at the time. There can be long term psychological issues further down the line. It's just one of those taboo's ingrained in our human nature for a reason. A baby born through a blood related brother and sister is substantially more likely to have physical and mental disorders. It increases the likelihood of a child getting a double-dose of one or more recessive genetic problems. In other words it is not a natural human behavior, IMHO. 

Now if it's a step brother and sister that are not blood related. I say it can be okay but there still may be a lot of the above problems.


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## TPower

Why the offspring, children talk?

Do you always have sex to procreate?


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## metamorphosis

No, but in natures wonderful world there is no such thing as contraception, except for fertility issues. I have never seen other animals using condoms etc. I'm saying on a basic fundamental level, the simple fact that offspring created between siblings with the same blood lines have significantly increased odds for serious complications and defects is natural sign. That incest hasn't been conducive or productive towards the continuation of our species throughout the centuries. This isn't a religious issue for me. It's a basic moral issue that can have serious consequences. Now if it is truly consensual should someone go to prison. Not necessarily, there are a lot of mitigating circumstances like age difference. If there is any mental illness or learning disabilities to name two of many.


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## pythonesque

TPower said:


> Why the offspring, children talk?
> 
> Do you always have sex to procreate?


A lot of our ideas on morality (and sexuality) make sense in evolutionary-biological terms. Attempting to argue them from a purely proximal standpoint is kind of a myopic thing to do. The truth remains that most people would react to the thought of incest - or at least, certain types of it - with disgust. And the childbearing-related theories provide a possible rationale for why that is the case.


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## Katelyn1236

It's different but I don't think it is wrong.


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## metamorphosis

pythonesque said:


> A lot of our ideas on morality (and sexuality) make sense in evolutionary-biological terms. Attempting to argue them from a purely proximal standpoint is kind of a myopic thing to do. The truth remains that most people would react to the thought of incest - or at least, certain types of it - with disgust. And the childbearing-related theories provide a possible rationale for why that is the case.


Wow, that's a good way to put it!


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## Hello22

I dissapprove. It's not for me. Hell sometimes i think i'm asexual anyway :lol


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## Fruitcake

pythonesque said:


> A lot of our ideas on morality (and sexuality) make sense in evolutionary-biological terms. Attempting to argue them from a purely proximal standpoint is kind of a myopic thing to do. The truth remains that most people would react to the thought of incest - or at least, certain types of it - with disgust. And the childbearing-related theories provide a possible rationale for why that is the case.


It would be short-sighted if his aim was to convince people that it is not disgusting. I think he is just expressing that it is not inherently wrong.
He knows that the truth is that people react to it with disgust and that there are evolutionary reasons for that. That doesn't relate to the inherent ethics of the act. Our ideas might "make sense" in the sense that there are reasons we feel that way, but that doesn't make them correct. The fact remains that people react to homosexuality with disgust too, and there are evolutionary reasons for that. It says something about people's attitudes towards it and nothing about the ethics of the act.
The problems with children can explain why people are disgusted by it, but it doesn't affect whether incest is inherently wrong, and that is what he is arguing.


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## SoWrongItsRight

Ummm.... I can't even begin to comprehend why people would think its ok. Lmao, it's disgusting.


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## metamorphosis

Fruitcake said:


> It would be short-sighted if his aim was to convince people that it is not disgusting. I think he is just expressing that it is not inherently wrong.
> He knows that the truth is that people react to it with disgust and that there are evolutionary reasons for that. That doesn't relate to the inherent ethics of the act. Our ideas might "make sense" in the sense that there are reasons we feel that way, but that doesn't make them correct. The fact remains that people react to homosexuality with disgust too, and there are evolutionary reasons for that. It says something about people's attitudes towards it and nothing about the ethics of the act.
> The problems with children can explain why people are disgusted by it, but it doesn't affect whether incest is inherently wrong, and that is what he is arguing.


Umm! I think it would be ethically and inherently wrong for an 19 yr old brother to have sex with his 14 yr old sister. And it would also be wrong if she were also learning disabled and/or came from an abusive family situation. Now we're getting into pretty dark areas. If those were the circumstances. That an older brother basically forced himself on his sister; who had no idea of what was happening and was probably scared. You think that is okay? And you do not think the brother should do time for that?

Or we can change the genders around for that matter.


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## Fruitcake

metamorphosis said:


> Umm! I think it would be ethically and inherently wrong for an 19 yr old brother to have sex with his 14 yr old sister. And it would also be wrong if she were also learning disabled and/or came from an abusive family situation. Now we're getting into pretty dark areas. If those were the circumstances. That an older brother basically forced himself on his sister; who had no idea of what was happening and was probably scared. You think that is okay? And you do not think the brother should do time for that?
> 
> Or we can change the genders around for that matter.


No, I don't think that's okay, as I already said earlier. That's why I'm talking about the inherent ethics of incest and not of other factors involved like age and children produced.

The situation you describe wouldn't be okay if they were unrelated, but that doesn't make all sex unethical.


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## pythonesque

Fruitcake said:


> It would be short-sighted if his aim was to convince people that it is not disgusting. I think he is just expressing that it is not inherently wrong.
> He knows that the truth is that people react to it with disgust and that there are evolutionary reasons for that. That doesn't relate to the inherent ethics of the act. Our ideas might "make sense" in the sense that there are reasons we feel that way, but that doesn't make them correct. The fact remains that people react to homosexuality with disgust too, and there are evolutionary reasons for that. It says something about people's attitudes towards it and nothing about the ethics of the act.
> The problems with children can explain why people are disgusted by it, but it doesn't affect whether incest is inherently wrong, and that is what he is arguing.


Hmm. The point about homophobia is a good one and I have no answer to that. Although it should be noted that homosexuality doesn't decrease diversity within the gene pool or affect the quality of any potential offspring since there are none. So perhaps from an evolutionary perspective, the act of two homosexuals having sex is pretty pointless but doesn't need to be deliberately averted...? I don't know.

And I understood the intent behind his comment. I just feel like the impact/validity of our emotional reactions on matters of morality and ethics is often overlooked in favour of pure logical reasoning. It takes both to make a decision in that regard.


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## Fruitcake

pythonesque said:


> Hmm. The point about homophobia is a good one and I have no answer to that. Although it should be noted that homosexuality doesn't decrease diversity within the gene pool or affect the quality of any potential offspring since there are none. So perhaps from an evolutionary perspective, the act of two homosexuals having sex is pretty pointless but doesn't need to be deliberately averted...? I don't know.
> 
> And I understood the intent behind his comment. I just feel like the impact/validity of our emotional reactions on matters of morality and ethics is often overlooked in favour of pure logical reasoning. It takes both to make a decision in that regard.


Having children through incest is a different matter to being in an incestual relationship, and doesn't affect the inherent ethics of it. I don't think it's reasonable to disapprove of all incest because some or most incest has bad consequences. The bad consequences mean you should disapprove of the actions that lead to the consequences, which is having children through incest.
Considering evolution the way you are doing is not helpful in judging ethics, it's only helpful in understanding why people unreasonably judge ethics the way they do.


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## lissa530

I'm open to many things but that is disgusting!


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## pythonesque

Fruitcake said:


> Having children through incest is a different matter to being in an incestual relationship, and doesn't affect the inherent ethics of it. I don't think it's reasonable to disapprove of all incest because some or most incest has bad consequences. The bad consequences mean you should disapprove of the actions that lead to the consequences, which is having children through incest.
> Considering evolution the way you are doing is not helpful in judging ethics, it's only helpful in understanding why people unreasonably judge ethics the way they do.


True, but why would you want to run the risk of accidental incestuous pregnancies? I mean, what are the benefits to condoning incest?

Also, I was thinking about that situation that metamorphosis described - what if a significant propoprtion of incestuous relationships contain such age- or disability-related exploitation? (I don't have any statistics but I'm inclined to think this is the case.) Would it not make sense to discourage incest in general as a practical precaution?


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## Fruitcake

pythonesque said:


> True, but why would you want to run the risk of accidental incestuous pregnancies? I mean, what are the benefits to condoning incest?
> 
> Also, I was thinking about that situation that metamorphosis described - what if a significant propoprtion of incestuous relationships contain such age- or disability-related exploitation? (I don't have any statistics but I'm inclined to think this is the case.) Would it not make sense to discourage incest in general as a practical precaution?


They want to run the risk because they want to have sex, same reason as anybody runs the risk of unwanted pregnancies. It's nothing to do with running the risk. Individuals run the risk, and that is a separate issue to whether incest is inherently wrong.
Plenty of incest is homosexual or between children.
"Condoning" means that it is wrong but you allow it. If you think it's okay then allowing it isn't condoning it. There don't need to be benefits to not condemning it. You either have reason to support condemning it, or you don't condemn it. Though if you want a benefit, an obvious one is that people wouldn't be condemned, stigmatised, shamed and made to feel guilty for their sexual preferences even when the relationships have no ill effects. And that people would be addressing the actual issues of rape, manipulation and coercion within families rather than putting those problems into the same category as consensual intrafamilial relationships.
Whether something is inherently immoral is based on the act itself, not on what it correlates with.
No. It would make sense to discourage rape and coercion. If the majority of a certain ethnicity were rapists it wouldn't make sense to condemn everyone of that ethnicity and say that being that ethnicity is inherently wrong. I don't mean to say that what you're saying is as unreasonable as that, just trying to demonstrate why that logic does not work. Also, whether it is ethical to discourage certain behaviours is not the same issue as whether the behaviour is inherently unethical or not.


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## pythonesque

My point was that incestuous pregnancies run a higher risk of producing babies that have something wrong with them than the average unwanted pregnancy. That's the risk I want to avoid. Not the risk of unwanted pregnancies in general.

I don't see a _tangible_ difference between condoning and not condemning. And I don't see incest-stigmatisation/-shaming etc. as a problem affecting a significant enough segment of the population that we need to run the risk of exploitation/abuse and birth defects to address it. I guess I'm seeing this all from a practical standpoint and you're seeing it from an ideological one. Your analogy pits an uncontrollable inherent condition against a conscious act/decision. But I can see your point and I can see that it's a valid one.

I just think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, even if that line appears arbitrary to most thinking people.


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## Fruitcake

pythonesque said:


> My point was that incestuous pregnancies run a higher risk of producing babies that have something wrong with them than the average unwanted pregnancy. That's the risk I want to avoid. Not the risk of unwanted pregnancies in general.
> 
> I don't see a _tangible_ difference between condoning and not condemning. And I don't see incest-stigmatisation/-shaming etc. as a problem affecting a significant enough segment of the population that we need to run the risk of exploitation/abuse and birth defects to address it. I guess I'm seeing this all from a practical standpoint and you're seeing it from an ideological one. Your analogy pits an uncontrollable inherent condition against a conscious act/decision. But I can see your point and I can see that it's a valid one.
> 
> I just think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, even if that line appears arbitrary to most thinking people.


I'm not saying it's not condoning it, I'm just saying that the word "condoning" implies that there's something wrong with it.
You don't need to address the issue of people being stigmatised, I'm just talking about an absence of condemning it. You either don't condemn it or you do, and you are choosing to condemn it instead of condemning the problems and unethical behaviour that sometimes occur with it.
I don't see how it is practical to discourage incest when you could discourage the actual problems. By condemning incest, people shame the victims of incestual rape as well and make it more difficult for them to seek help. Acknowledging that incest is not inherently wrong but addressing the issue of incestual rape is not increasing the risk of exploitation because it's not saying that it's fine to rape your brother.

To show that incest is wrong, one would need to justify why it is wrong for two consenting adult siblings to have sex when there is no chance of reproduction, because if incest is inherently wrong then so is that scenario.


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## millenniumman75

I still can't believe 23 people say it is okay. Thank goodness most of that is illegal.

Having rights means having responsibility, not being a Jerry Springer guest.


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## Fruitcake

The line doesn't need to be arbitrary, it can be drawn at a reasonable point. Based on the assumption that it is wrong to risk the conception of children by siblings or parents (and grandparents? I'm not aware of the risks), and that it is wrong to coerce, manipulate or rape, the line can be drawn at saying it is wrong for someone to rape a family member and it is wrong for direct family members to have sex where conception is possible. Neither of those include incest being inherently wrong.


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## Fruitcake

millenniumman75 said:


> I still can't believe 23 people say it is okay. Thank goodness most of that is illegal.
> 
> Having rights means having responsibility, not being a Jerry Springer guest.


It might be illegal, but that doesn't stop it happening. It's not like people go around advertising their incestuous relationships.


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## avoidobot3000

I think it's wrong because it shows an unhealthy amount of narcissism: to feel romantically about someone who is essentially similar to yourself, mentally and physically, and to think that certain boundaries don't apply. It's also unhealthy not being able to distinguish between someone one can love, as family, and someone who can potentially satisfy one's own needs.


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## komorikun

Interesting article on it here:

http://discovermagazine.com/2003/aug/featkiss



> Some families have traditionally chosen inbreeding as the best strategy for success because it offers at least three highly practical benefits. First, such marriages make it likelier that a shared set of cultural values will pass down intact to the children.
> Second, cousin marriages make it more likely that spouses will be compatible, particularly in an alien environment. Such marriages may be even more attractive for Pakistanis in Bradford, England, than back home in Kashmir. Intermarriage decreases the divorce rate and enhances the independence of wives, who retain the support of familiar friends and relatives. Among the 19th-century du Ponts, for instance, women had an equal vote with men in family meetings.
> Finally, marrying cousins minimizes the need to break up family wealth from one generation to the next. The rich have frequently chosen inbreeding as a means to keep estates intact and consolidate power.





> But Patrick Bateson, a professor of ethology at Cambridge University, argues that outbreeding has at times been hazardous for humans too. For instance, the size and shape of our teeth is a strongly inherited trait. So is jaw size and shape. But the two traits aren't inherited together. If a woman with small jaws and small teeth marries a man with big jaws and big teeth, their grandchildren may end up with a mouthful of gnashers in a Tinkertoy jaw. Before dentistry was commonplace, Bateson adds, "ill-fitting teeth were probably a serious cause of mortality because it increased the likelihood of abscesses in the mouth." Marrying a cousin was one way to avoid a potentially lethal mismatch.
> Bateson suggests that while youngsters imprinting on their siblings lose sexual interest in one another they may also gain a search image for a mate-someone who's not a sibling but like a sibling. Studies have shown that people overwhelmingly choose spouses similar to themselves, a phenomenon called assortative mating. The similarities are social, psychological, and physical, even down to traits like earlobe length. Cousins, Bateson says, perfectly fit this human preference for "slight novelty."


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## RedViperofDorne

I'm a bit more liberal about this than most people. I think if the people involved are adults and it's consensual, then it's their business. I just hope they use contraception.


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## pythonesque

Fruitcake said:


> I'm not saying it's not condoning it, I'm just saying that the word "condoning" implies that there's something wrong with it.
> You don't need to address the issue of people being stigmatised, I'm just talking about an absence of condemning it. You either don't condemn it or you do, and you are choosing to condemn it instead of condemning the problems and unethical behaviour that sometimes occur with it.
> I don't see how it is practical to discourage incest when you could discourage the actual problems. By condemning incest, people shame the victims of incestual rape as well and make it more difficult for them to seek help. Acknowledging that incest is not inherently wrong but addressing the issue of incestual rape is not increasing the risk of exploitation because it's not saying that it's fine to rape your brother.
> 
> To show that incest is wrong, one would need to justify why it is wrong for two consenting adult siblings to have sex when there is no chance of reproduction, because if incest is inherently wrong then so is that scenario.





Fruitcake said:


> The line doesn't need to be arbitrary, it can be drawn at a reasonable point. Based on the assumption that it is wrong to risk the conception of children by siblings or parents (and grandparents? I'm not aware of the risks), and that it is wrong to coerce, manipulate or rape, the line can be drawn at saying it is wrong for someone to rape a family member and it is wrong for direct family members to have sex where conception is possible. Neither of those include incest being inherently wrong.


What makes one line more reasonable than another? In the context of an incestuous relationship, if an adult exploited a child but the child didn't fully understand what was happening and therefore wasn't traumatised or otherwise negatively affected by the experience, is it wrong? You may point out that there was a lack of consent, but why is consent important when no damage has been done? etc. etc.

I have a problem with society as a whole making a proclamation such as, "Incest is not inherently wrong," and then specifying a list of cases which are. We all know how much attention people pay to the fine print. Every nuance comes with a corresponding grey area, and in order to avoid these all together it is absolutely more practical to condemn all incest. And obviously the victims of incestuous rape cannot be blamed. If I condemn (non-incestuous) rape, am I also condemning the victims for having been subjected to it? I don't see how this case is different from the incestuous case.


----------



## Resonance

Incest is so groovy


----------



## forex

incest , between brother & sister . in the family is big NO NO.


----------



## em violet

to eaches own. personaly i dont care one way or another. if someone has feelings or sexual desire for a family member thats their business not mine. im not gonna judge them based on how they feel for some one else. if it was a family member i had feelings for or vise versa, i wouldnt ever act upon them. what i have expirenced in my life is that emotional feelings and sexual desire are not something i am able to control. so i would let myself experience them on my own and then let them disappear.


----------



## Andre

"In the future, cousin sex will be possible... but not the ickier forms of incest." -- zeitgeist


----------



## lisbeth

It's legal to marry your first cousin, if distasteful. Anything beyond that is wrong.


----------



## Fruitcake

pythonesque said:


> What makes one line more reasonable than another? In the context of an incestuous relationship, if an adult exploited a child but the child didn't fully understand what was happening and therefore wasn't traumatised or otherwise negatively affected by the experience, is it wrong? You may point out that there was a lack of consent, but why is consent important when no damage has been done? etc. etc.
> 
> I have a problem with society as a whole making a proclamation such as, "Incest is not inherently wrong," and then specifying a list of cases which are. We all know how much attention people pay to the fine print. Every nuance comes with a corresponding grey area, and in order to avoid these all together it is absolutely more practical to condemn all incest. And obviously the victims of incestuous rape cannot be blamed. If I condemn (non-incestuous) rape, am I also condemning the victims for having been subjected to it? I don't see how this case is different from the incestuous case.


One line is based on not doing what is wrong, the other is based on not doing something that can either be fine or be wrong. I don't think rape is the "fine print". I don't see the reason for thinking that rapists are going to be considering incest as morally wrong but rape as being in the fine print. There's no need to specify a list of cases, there are two components it could be based on. And the same as any sex, if it's rape it's not okay.
Yes, that's wrong because they did not get consent. Consent is important because they don't know that it's not going to harm them. It's not just about the outcome. I don't understand your point about that. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't need to be considered in the context of an incestuous relationship. It is related to rape and can be considered disregarding incest (unless you think incest is inherently wrong).
Condemning something isn't about what's practical. It's about what is correct ethically. If you want to get practical, it's practical to condemn people who are harmful to society for things they can't help and for things that are not unethical. You can't decide what's ethical based on what's practical.
I don't think I said that you are condemning the victims. I said that it has a negative effect on them for that reason. It's different because you are condemning rape and the victim did not rape anyone. The victim of incestuous rape did have incestuous sex.


----------



## youngloc

Love is love, better off having it in what people deem as a weird place than not having it at all. Though incest is not something I can relate to, since it never even crossed my mind or dreams


----------



## theseventhkey

For all you "okay" with cousins messing around particularly with 1st cousins. Would you be okay with your little nephew "little Tommy" messing around with your daughter, and if you say your cool with that marriage and won't take a stand, your full of horse s&^%.


----------



## Luka92

Disapprove. It disgusts me.


----------



## Soilwork

As long as contraception is used and both members are 18+ then I see nothing wrong with it.

I love how people say it's icky etc. I bet people said the same thing about homosexuality 50 years ago.


----------



## pythonesque

Fruitcake said:


> One line is based on not doing what is wrong, the other is based on not doing something that can either be fine or be wrong. I don't think rape is the "fine print". I don't see the reason for thinking that rapists are going to be considering incest as morally wrong but rape as being in the fine print. There's no need to specify a list of cases, there are two components it could be based on. And the same as any sex, if it's rape it's not okay.
> Yes, that's wrong because they did not get consent. Consent is important because they don't know that it's not going to harm them. It's not just about the outcome. I don't understand your point about that. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't need to be considered in the context of an incestuous relationship. It is related to rape and can be considered disregarding incest (unless you think incest is inherently wrong).
> Condemning something isn't about what's practical. It's about what is correct ethically. If you want to get practical, it's practical to condemn people who are harmful to society for things they can't help and for things that are not unethical. You can't decide what's ethical based on what's practical.
> I don't think I said that you are condemning the victims. I said that it has a negative effect on them for that reason. It's different because you are condemning rape and the victim did not rape anyone. The victim of incestuous rape did have incestuous sex.


If consent is not about the outcome, what is it about? Or rather, let's go one step further. If ethics is not about practicality - the practical matter of protecting and strengthening humanity, society, and individuals - what is it about?

I see your point on the incestuous rape thing. But condemning someone for engaging in an action that was _forced upon_ them is illogical to begin with. The fault in this instance lies with the people who are condemning incestuous rape victims, not in the inherent morality of incest itself. (Of course if you remove the societal stigma around incest, you could achieve the same effect of alleviating some of the emotional burden of the victims for having engaged in it. Though in this case you would be acting out of a practical consideration as opposed to an ethic principle one.)


----------



## jaymusic1992

disturbing...


----------



## theseventhkey

Mimic said:


> Marriage and casual sex are two completely different things.


What if "casual" sex leads to other things? If your not okay with marriage then you shouldn't be okay with the sex either.


----------



## meganmila

I must admit I was attracted to my cousin who I haven't seen in yeaaarrss...we didn't grow up together and when the last time I saw him I was like a little kid then I was 18 and he is older then me so I was surprised to see what he looked like. Back then I thought I was weird for thinking that...thank god I'm not alone in thinking that. Now immediate family? Umm nooo!


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

What in the world is wrong with the mods? Why isn't this deleted and closed? 

And I think it's sick.


----------



## AwkBoy

I wonder why people are so surprised to find out that some people would have/don't mind having sexual relation with a cousin? It's not an immediate family member sooo . . . it's not that serious.


----------



## theseventhkey

Mimic said:


> What if it doesn't? It certainly doesn't have to. There is no logical reason to think that sex always has to be paired with marriage.


How many friends with benefit's end up in relationships? More than half. Well, I guess for some of you here give a whole new meaning to family "reunions".:no May have you have many beautiful children with your mother's niece!!!!


----------



## AussiePea

Against it based on potential issues with children, otherwise I wouldn't really care what people who have no affect on my life whatsoever do with theirs.


----------



## Paul

None of the above. I believe incest is a bad idea mainly because it endangers important family bonds -- romantic relationships don't always last, but family is [ideally] for life, so there's a good reason for the cultural taboo separating them. There's also frequently a power imbalance involved, and of course there's genetic issues if they have children. But my considered disapproval isn't disgust and I don't believe in gods, so I can't vote in this poll.


----------



## Secretaz

It's disgusting. How can people see their family members in that way?


----------



## JerseyGuy

If you have feelings for a family member..i wont judge..sometimes you cant control your feelings but.... you need to avoid that person, move out if you live in the same house, if you cant move out then go out more and just dont socialise with him or her,, this can really ruin your family,, cause problems and possibly damage you or that person emotionally and mentally....not worth it..please stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## metamorphosis

JustThisGuy said:


> This is probably the best answer. :lol
> 
> I love the "sin/God will punish you" option. It's so hypocritical, it's funny.


 pg.1)

Really? I like the , "It's okay to **** my younger sister" attitude.

The quote above can sum up a story I'll eventually get to. A mentally and emotionally warped 19 yr old adult with his is dominating and abusive ways, decides to begin an on going incestuous relationship with his sister, while she is 15 and 16 yrs. old. And the pleasure he derives from the control, power, dominance, and sadism.

*Adult Sibling Incest or " Positive Incest"*
People have posted about these adult sibling relationships. Why they should not be illegal. I agree. And that sometimes the attraction between two blood related siblings crosses a line into a sexual relationship. And it's all good for the brother and sister involved. I can see why some of the posters give props if 21yr old Erika can't get enough of her man-her brother, 23yr old Johnny, as adults that are truly in a consensual relationship. They are happy and love each other. And societies stigmas and laws aren't going to stop their right to be together. Flipping the big middle finger to the outdated taboo of a bro and sis. being in love . Shouting a big **** you to a society and a culture that tries to suppress the adult sibling sex issue, with laws to prevent the intimate relationship.

I think that is the wrong type of reaction and there should be no punishment for "positive incest" between two mentally competent and consensual adults. It's an issue that our society, as a whole, finds irrevocably wrong on a morally fundamental level. The knee jerk reaction is to punish those involved because the majority of the people find it so alien and unnatural. And when the majority finds something unacceptable and incomprehensible. It tends to scare them. That's when they try to stop it. Even though know no one is perceivable being harmed within these happy, shiny, sibling relationships.

The inherent evil in incest:
Statistically most modern societies shun positive incest as an unnatural act. The word incest being loaded with so many negative and terrible connotations, as it should be. Consider incest in it's most common manifestations. Fathers raping their daughters. Brothers pushing incestuous relations upon a younger sibling, another form of rape. Mothers who have incestuous relations with their sons or daughters. Those are all people with power and/or authority perpetrating the one of the worst crimes possible on a defenseless and scared child and adolescent. A person who isn't yet strong enough to fight back in any way. Usually physically overpowered and still developing mentally.

Sexual assault is a form of violence that uses unwanted sexual actions, contact, pictures and words in ways that are harmful and traumatic to another person. There are many types of sexual assault: rape and attempted rape by an acquaintance, friend, family member, spouse or stranger; child sexual abuse, molestation, incest, or child sexual exploitation. Sexual assault can also take the form of exhebitionism, voyeurism, obscene phone calls, fondling, unwanted displays of pornography, and sexual harassment in the workplace, school or on the streets.

Child sexual abuse can be defined as any situation in which an adult or another child threatens,
forces or manipulates a child into sexual activity. Many times the offender doesn't need to use
physical force with the victim. Instead, they take advantage of their position of trust and
authority. Child sexual abuse can include exposing a child to pornography, fondling the sexual
parts of a child's body, making a child engage in sexual activity with others, and sexually
penetrating a child orally, anally or vaginally with the penis, hand or any object. Incest is
intercourse or touching of sexual parts between an adult family member and a child or between
siblings.
definitions from
http://www.commerce.wa.gov/DesktopModules/CTEDPublications/CTEDPublicationsView.aspx?tabID=0&ItemID=8283&MId=950&wversion=Staging

The long term damage to the victim can be devastating.

Incest Tied to Later Mental Illness : Psychiatry: Study shows long-term effects on a victim's mind. Therapists are urged to ask each patient about sexual abuse.
December 13, 1992|J. L. HAZELTON | ASSOCIATED PRESS

-By age 16, one woman in five has had sexual contact with a relative, and one in three has had unwanted sexual contact with an adult, the researchers said. -In their study of 75 area women receiving psychotherapy, Dinwiddie and Pribor found the 52 incest victims in that group each, on average, had suffered seven psychiatric illnesses, more than twice the number suffered by the 23 women who hadn't been sexually abused as children. -The incest victims also suffered certain psychiatric disorders more often than did the other women. -The incest victims most often suffered alcohol dependence, depression, panic attacks and phobias, especially a fear of public places--all potentially disabling and all highly treatable .-While Pribor and Dinwiddie don't claim to have found a link between severity of abuse and depth of illness, they did find that the women who had been most severely abused had higher levels of anxiety-related problems.

The instinctively wise avoidance of intercourse and interbreeding between siblings throughout the course of our evolution has been as nature intended. This centuries old practice of not mating along the same familial bloodline, has made our species stronger. If sibling intercourse took place. It was and still has the direct opposite effect. It weakens the forward progress of the species by increasing genetic defects at an alarming rate.

Say you have two children, and each of them has 1 functional copy and one defective copy of a gene. If they have a child together, or inbreed, then 
there is a 50% chance that the child will get the defective gene from each of them. That means that there is a 25% chance of them having a child that has two defective copies of that gene, since the overall chance is 50% of 50%. This grandchild of yours might have some sort of physical defect 
because they are missing a functional copy of the gene in question.
Inbreeding creates a significant amount of offspring with birth defects. That's a clear anthropological point that cannot be denied. 
That is why most siblings today know by an instinctual imprint that to cross the line and have an incestuous relationship is wrong. It's imprinted in our brain's hardrive. That is the biological reason we don't **** our brothers and sisters.
Now, I know that we can use contraception in this day and age. And, you might say that the reproductive part of evolutionary the equation won't effect two mature adult siblings that just want to ****. Well your wrong because the second part of the equation still includes the evolutionary black flag, that we have imprinted in our psyches.But also ties into the reasoning's of why the modern day homosapien with the development of a much more complex brain that enforces most of humanities view point on the subject. The "open minded" belief that adult consensual incest is just a natural and healthy sexual relationship between a bro. or sis. They were just made for each other and wanna get it on, right!


----------



## metamorphosis

pg.2)

Naw, I don't think so. I think there's some serious underlying psychological and mental issues for any blood brother and sister that step over that line. I know siblings that have great chemistry and some siblings find the other one to be an attractive person. Which is actually quite normal. But they don't equate the "yeah my sisters a good looking girl" into "yeah, my sister is so hot, I wanna do her". That's just a seriously screwed up thought processes. The circuitry is all crossed up in that dudes brain. It's all rewired. Theres reasons why siblings get into this sick and twisted way of looking at life and how the cycle of life works. One clue, it doesn't include having sex with your sister. It does include being a man. To stop eyeing up your sister and try getting off your *** to find a girl, who your mom didn't give birth to. It's actually possible. Except for the few "positive incest" siblings that roam our planet and some posters on this thread.

Here's a good one. This person has the maturity level of a 26 yr old. Who's never been laid. He's probably like 15 though. Here is the gist of his post-
"I wish someone in my family was good looking and close to my age. I would totally go for it." I'm paraphrasing the quote because it is so juvenile and *** backwards. If this tard actually thinks like this, then he seriously needs to retake those special ed classes and try to get out of the trailer park more often. He probably lays in bed, just fantasizing in his dreams about having a beautiful sister that just wants him. He's like a 4th generation hand me down inbred from the Arkansas swamp land. A sloth still living in a delusional days, of the trailer home with his poor little lady. I meant girl. Barefoot and pregnant, cooking away in the kitchen and bringing him beers while he sits on his ***. Just like it's meant to be! Yeah boy, what a pathetic, misogynistic post. Saying you wish you had a sister to love. You D>B>, you definitely are a bad egg!!!

So, we evolved into modern ****-sapiens and developed a more complex brain. With a superior level of intelligence came: The ability to reason, rational thought, control of instincts and urges. We are conscious of time, reality, and truth. We have self-consciousness, which means we are aware of are own existence and use contemplation. We have complex emotional conditioning. Just to name a few of the many things that set us apart from any other species. Though apes, monkeys, dolphins, cats and dogs are considered higher intelligent animals to name a few. Some of those, like dolphins and the chimps have a fairly impressive language. Can do deductive problem solving and share similar emotions with us.

The areas I underlined tie into this whole debate and the use of not only our primal imprint to just say no. But to use our ability to rationally. think through the issue. Also, very important is the ability as highly conscious beings to be able to use the control we have over our instincts and the urges that afflict all of us humans. Basically, we don't run on auto-pilot. We can understand complex problems, philosophical, moral, and ethical issues. And hopefully figure whatever the issue at hand is and come to a grounded answer and conclusion. We have self-consciousness, which is usually always in overdrive if you have SAD. And we have complex emotional conditioning. Which plays a huge role in the warped thought processes that come out of living in a dysfunctional incestuous home.

So by using these tools that we have to try to figure things out. I, personally can use my intelligence and rational thought processes to begin to look at the nature of the "positive incest is best" train of thought and compare it to the argument. It is not a natural or healthy way for humans to live and thrive in their lives except for a very select few siblings who will live happily ever after together in true love. They are the few, the anomalies. On this side i look at it also from a philosophical and psychological viewpoint. I have my own values and belief system. I have my own morals. I am a spiritual person but not religious. And I am pretty open minded. If no one is abusing, molesting, manipulating or hurting the other person in some vile way. And they are sound, stable adults capable of making decisions then I'm fine with it. With the let them be part of the thread. Remember this thread is not only about adult sibling incest. But it ia about incest with way other dynamics involved. Like the story I'm going to relay in my part two of this extremely long post or posts. Because I can almost say with 99.9% accuracy that the other types of incestuous relationships are wrong. They are all deeply entrenched in dysfunctional families, abuse of all sorts and distorted thinking to say the least.

Now, I'm OK with the sibling lovers if they are content but there are still the questions why. Why they have decided to make this choice and live this way? I think I have done a decent job proving why it is still not a healthy and natural way for humans to live. And that is not being filtered through my own morals and values. I have my own beliefs on the ways this can happen.
I'll lay them out next post. One has to do with a dysfunctional and abusive household. That at least started with the parents, step-parent, uncle ,the creep down the street etc. The elders that are or have been in the children life in some way and others that have lead to childhood trauma and abuse of all sorts with different siblings. That's how their brains starts to carve out these deep canyons of twisted thoughts, values, beliefs and other distorted thinking. Often times just to mentally and emotionally survive through the pain.

The other reason being studied is GSA, genetic sexual attraction, which "occurs between two adults who have been separated during the critical years of development and bonding and are reunited years later as adults." When they are finally reunited, "they become captivated with one another, sharing similar physical features, likes and dislikes." Perhaps they could say, "My genes made me do it!" 
That's just a little synopsis on it but there's some decent studies on it. If I can find that frigging pdf.!!!!

Good, I found it. A great pdf on the above subject,GSA!!!
http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/papers/incest2003.

Sorry about all the grammar mistakes. I'm to spent to go through them right now. I'm done with this post!!! 
Peace!


----------



## Solomon's Tomb

Oedipus was the first mother ****er!


----------



## ohm

No.


----------



## peacelovemusic

as long as it's a consensual, not abusive relationship, and they aren't reproducing, I think people should be able to be with whoever they want, even if it's a family member.


----------



## Munchlaxxx

It's pretty hot in fiction.
Real life? Seems gross.


----------



## 50piecesteve

Define Me said:


> Am I the only one mortified by this thread?


no im right here with you..........question of the day on SAS god help us :blank


----------



## Slytherclaw

I'm kind of mixed up about this topic. Distant cousins, eh whatever, but closer family members is dangerous because it breaks down the family structure...and something called reverse imprinting is supposed to happen between siblings within the first 6 years of their lives, basically ensuring they will not be sexually attracted to each other...so that'd be extremely rare anyway, unless they met for the first time as adults (like genetic sexual attraction). As far as GSA goes I just have to feel bad for those people. I don't know, like I said, I don't want them to make babies or screw up the family dynamic, but you love who you love.


----------



## Joe

No, it makes me shudder.


----------



## Canucklehead

Of the people who say it's totally fine, I'd like to know how many of them are an only child.


----------



## MollyAmins

The only reason incest is bad is because of the whole inbreeding thing.... The aversion to it is mostly cultural though... I honestly don't see it as that big of a deal...


----------



## MollyAmins

And I'm not an only child.


----------



## worldcitizen

Its wrong wrong wrong. Sick, disgusting and so very wrong. Especially between immediate family members. People who engage in such repulsive behavior should be forcibly admitted into mental institutions.


----------



## srschirm

Doesn't bother me that much, to be honest with you.


----------



## laura024

I don't care. I do think reproduction should be avoided though because of the risks to the baby's development. Of course, people are also told to avoid alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs during pregnancy and don't always listen anyway... :/


----------



## DesertStar91

TristanS said:


> It's twisted, and if they act on it, I'm happy for everyone they know to stop talking to them and treat them like they don't exist.


I absolutely agree. Incest is disgusting and why anyone would want to do it is beyond me.


----------



## queenbanana

It's so interesting to read everyone's posts on this. 
Most say it's disgusting, but why is it so disgusting and disapproved of? Because society and religion has told you so. Yes, if you have babies through an incestuous relationship the chances of it being unhealthy are extremely high. But this fact alone doesn't make incest wrong in my eyes, at least. Having a baby isn't the same as being in a relationship, is it? Let's say a woman is diagnosed with breast cancer. This particular type of cancer can be hereditary, so should this woman be banned from being in a relationship with a man because if she were to have kids, they could develop breast cancer as well? That's ridiculous. 

When I was a little kid and had no knowledge of anything at all, I wanted to french kiss my sister. Of course, back then I had no idea what kissing was and hadn't seen (or noticed) anyone do it, I just wanted to feel somebody's tongue against mine. She, being 3 years older, obviously refused and told our mom about it. I was told I shouldn't do such things and blah blah blah. Anyway, my point is, when you're a kid and haven't been influenced by society, you believe everything is okay and normal. You then grow up and learn some things are "wrong" because that's what you're taught by society. If my sister had agreed to "kiss" me and we liked it, it's not entirely impossible to believe we would have kept going at it as we grew older. If nobody then interfered with our relationship, never would it have occurred to me that what we were doing was wrong.


----------



## GunnyHighway

Don't really care. It doesn't affect me, and who am I to want to control what other people might enjoy doing?


----------



## MollyAmins

worldcitizen said:


> Its wrong wrong wrong. Sick, disgusting and so very wrong. Especially between immediate family members. People who engage in such repulsive behavior should be forcibly admitted into mental institutions.


-Disappointment-

Yeah because it's a sign of mental illness to be attracted to somebody. People are people. Family is close, and the bond is normally not romantic, but when it is that doesn't make the people involved mentally ill. You're lame^


----------



## restinfish

to me this subject is like abortion
it is what it is it may be sad and disgust some people but still it'd be wrong to not let people make their own choices


----------



## TrcyMcgrdy1

restinfish said:


> to me this subject is like abortion
> it is what it is it may be sad and disgust some people but still it'd be wrong to not let people make their own choices


Lol, I cna picture your real life face lookign liek your avatar whent hese subjects are brought up at the dinner table haha. Agreed too, people cna have their own opinions. it isn't like their beliefs on most matters affect you...


----------



## Imspartacus

Disapprove 

It is wrong and ultimately no good can come of it. Of course everyone is free to live as they wish, but that won't stop me from sharing with others (in a respectful manner) what I believe is a better way to live.


----------



## MollyAmins

Imspartacus said:


> Disapprove
> 
> It is wrong and ultimately no good can come of it. Of course everyone is free to live as they wish, but that won't stop me from sharing with others (in a respectful manner) what I believe is a better way to live.


Can I ask what it is about incest that strikes you as "not a good way to live"? How does having incest weigh on one's quality of life? I can see how it COULD in specific circumstances, but as a rule? Uh.


----------



## MollyAmins

restinfish said:


> to me this subject is like abortion
> it is what it is it may be sad and disgust some people but still it'd be wrong to not let people make their own choices


Except abortion is dealing with life or death..... Haha


----------



## queenbanana

MollyAmins said:


> Except abortion is dealing with life or death..... Haha


Exactly. The only relation incest has with abortion is that they're both considered controversial topics. Soon, overpopulation will become an issue and birth will start to be controlled by the government. When that happens, everybody will be hooking up with anybody because chances are, you won't even know who your parents are, and the risk of pregnancy will be nonexistent.


----------



## metamorphosis

queenbanana said:


> Exactly. The only relation incest has with abortion is that they're both considered controversial topics.
> 
> 
> 
> Soon, overpopulation will become an issue and birth will start to be controlled by the government. When that happens, everybody will be hooking up with anybody because chances are, you won't even know who your parents are, and the risk of pregnancy will be nonexistent.
> 
> 
> 
> Controlling peoples right to have children! Not going to happen in a society where peoples various religious beliefs are directly opposed to such a thing!
> 
> Yeah, that's really going to happen soon. I can just see congress trying to pass a law in America about controlling peoples right to have children and the lawmaker who would dare to initiate that. That would be political suicide for one thing.
> 
> Do you know how many special interests groups, not to mention the majority of the population, would smash such an idea? Not going to happen. Nice little conspiracy theory though. Something out of some futuristic sci-fi movie
Click to expand...


----------



## queenbanana

metamorphosis said:


> queenbanana said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. The only relation incest has with abortion is that they're both considered controversial topics.
> 
> Controlling peoples right to have children! Not going to happen in a society where peoples various religious beliefs are directly opposed to such a thing!
> 
> Yeah, that's really going to happen soon. I can just see congress trying to pass a law in America about controlling peoples right to have children and the lawmaker who would dare to initiate that. That would be political suicide for one thing.
> 
> Do you know how many special interests groups, not to mention the majority of the population, would smash such an idea? Not going to happen. Nice little conspiracy theory though. Something out of some futuristic sci-fi movie
> 
> 
> 
> Well it won't happen while we're alive probably but something similar WILL happen. How else is overpopulation going to be controlled? Well, if the idea is smashed and disrespected when the government attempts it, we're looking at tremendously huge world wars over little things like food and water. But if technology grows faster than the population, then I suppose we're safe (well our future generations).
Click to expand...


----------



## Dark Alchemist

metamorphosis said:


> Do you know how many special interests groups, not to mention the majority of the population, would smash such an idea? Not going to happen. Nice little conspiracy theory though. Something out of some futuristic sci-fi movie


Not right now for sure. But if and when the reality of overpopulation sinks in there won't be much choice.


----------



## Durzo

I am ok with it, whatever people want is fine by me.


----------



## ChrissyQ

I think it's disturbing but i'll admit to liking "Flowers In The Attic" too much and liking my cousin but i'm adopted so we're not blood related!


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

There are some distant cousins who I find kind of sexy. I would never do anything with them, though.

I think it's natural to feel attraction to at least one family member, at least once in your life. But it is sick to act on it.


----------



## AceEmoKid

I voted "people are free to do whatever they want." Although, personally, I wouldn't be into that. It'd be pretty disgusting and would tear a family apart beyond repair. It'd just be a little too weird to me, no offense. There are plenty of other fish in the sea besides your own family members to be in a romantic relationship with. Plus, if it were between a guy and a girl relative, and they had sex---well....deformed babies.


----------



## John316C

sdsd


----------



## theseventhkey

WintersTale said:


> There are some distant cousins who I find kind of sexy. I would never do anything with them, though.
> 
> I think it's natural to feel attraction to at least one family member, at least once in your life. But it is sick to act on it.


I think "distant" cousins like anything past 3rd is okay(although I still wouldn't touch anything that claims to be in my family), your nothing but a friend of the family after that, but some of these people in here were talking about it being cool with 1st cousins. If you would get with your 1st cousin you might as well be screwing your aunt and uncle and if you would screw your aunt and uncle then you might as well be screwing your own mother and father, just when I thought the "Neanderthal" was extinct.:no


----------



## andy1984

i don't really care about it.


----------



## ChrissyQ

To the ppl here who say "it doesn't really bother me" i'm sure it WOULD bother you if you saw your mom and brother goin at it!!


----------



## Alas Babylon

Why does it matter if it's 'disgusting' or it gives you an icky feeling? 
If its two consensual adults having sex, it's no one else's business. Saying that incest is wrong because it grosses you out is childish, it's not like you're forced to watch it. Some people find gay sex disgusting, does that make it wrong? No. Some people find BDSM disgusting, still doesn't make it wrong. 
No one is harmed if two adults consent to have sex, regardless of their gender, relation, race or whatever else gets them off. 
And the old 'disabled children argument' is irrelevant, there is such a thing as protection, and there are plenty of disabled children born from non-incestuous relations. 
Personally, the idea grosses me out, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, a lot of things people do in sex can be disgusting, but it's their choice.


----------



## False Protagonist

I think it's a bit... odd, but I don't have anything against it.


----------



## deltarain8




----------



## kj87

TristanS said:


> It's twisted, and if they act on it, I'm happy for everyone they know to stop talking to them and treat them like they don't exist.


I've been in one. It was a mutually consensual experience. Sorry for existing ^_^


----------



## deltarain8

@ kj87 where on the family tree was that person located?
main family-_ ZOIKS!! _
1st cousins- :no
2nd- mah...
3rd- whatever


----------



## kj87

deltarain8 said:


> @ kj87 where on the family tree was that person located?
> main family-_ ZOIKS!! _
> 1st cousins- :no
> 2nd- mah...
> 3rd- whatever


First cousin. We're both male. It lasted for about a year ish when we were younger. It was an interesting experience.

Don't really care what people think about it.


----------



## queenbanana

kj87 said:


> First cousin. We're both male. It lasted for about a year ish when we were younger. It was an interesting experience.
> 
> Don't really care what people think about it.


Were you open about it? How did people respond? I have a 18 y/o cousin who is dating a first cousin as well. Coming from a small town, people talk about them sometimes but for the most part they are ignored by most. You'd think more people would be against their relationship since the town is supposed to be oh so religious but once the gossip dies down, nobody really minds. They're seen as just another young couple- which is exactly what they are. I also have an older cousin who married a first cousin and had a child with her. I was just a kid when this happened but I remember the adults gossiping, saying things like "it's just that nobody else would take him". It's kind of funny, really. Once people become more open about it, others will simply get used to it and embrace it as normal.



ChrissyQ said:


> To the ppl here who say "it doesn't really bother me" i'm sure it WOULD bother you if you saw your mom and brother goin at it!!


I'd find it weird because of the huge age difference and obviously because my mother would be cheating on my father, but if it were say my brother and sister, I'm sure I'd find it rather entertaining.



John316C said:


>


Thank you, I've found a new guy to lose hours to on youtube


----------



## John316C

sdsd


----------



## deltarain8

yeah John316C great video post. Very interesting.


----------



## James_Russell

Ben Williams said:


> tried it, and we both had a good time


Darwin: Jewel of the North


----------



## luctus

As long as it's free of coercion/force (i.e. consenting adults) and no malformed fetuses result, I have no moral objection to incest.

I can't say I find it appealing, though.


----------



## kj87

queenbanana said:


> Were you open about it? How did people respond?


No. We weren't open about it. We were both around 15ish at the time and it was sort of a see how far we could push things type of deal. First it was watching tv or something together, and sitting next to each other. Then kind of awkwardly spreading out and getting comfortable on the couch type of thing. Casual legs on each other lap. Then one time I started giving him a foot massage. We both seemed to like it. It was all slow incremental things.

Good luck to your cousins!


----------



## komorikun

a pers0n said:


> Darwin: Jewel of the North


Speaking of Darwin, did you know that Charles Darwin was married to his first cousin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Darwin


----------



## AllToAll

This topic always makes me feel uneasy because (aside from when parent-power dynamics come into play) there isn't anything fundamentally wrong. You fell in love with your sister/brother/cousin... It's weird because that's what we've been socially taught, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with it. 

It still freaks me out, but Imma do my own thing and you do yours...


----------



## CWe

Incest makes me insides feel gross.


----------



## queenbanana

kj87 said:


> No. We weren't open about it. We were both around 15ish at the time and it was sort of a see how far we could push things type of deal. First it was watching tv or something together, and sitting next to each other. Then kind of awkwardly spreading out and getting comfortable on the couch type of thing. Casual legs on each other lap. Then one time I started giving him a foot massage. We both seemed to like it. It was all slow incremental things.
> 
> Good luck to your cousins!


That sounds rather .. hot, lol. 
I used to play weird doctor/patient games with a cousin and my sister, all females under 10 I think. Our favorite was butt injections pretend, hahah. I've always wondered if other kids went through a similar phase..

And thanks!


----------



## T-Bone

millenniumman75 said:


> Even relations with a cousin is not okay. It's gross and it's like a cop out. The rest of the world is out there trying to get it with a non-relative.
> 
> The Royal Family has some of this "inbreeding". Look how some of them turned out.
> 
> I can't believe people are saying this is okay. When did this suddenly become acceptable? It's ludicrous, and I am NOT talking about the rapper who can't spell.


I find quite the opposite really. I can't believe so many people feel this strongly against it. You can think it's nasty if you want, but calling it "wrong" or even "not okay" seems a bit much to me. Especially as far as you take it with the cousins. Siblings engaging in sex with each other or with parents could be a result of some mental issues for sure. TO ME, it's gross and wrong. But cousins? Really? I dunno...i have a couple of pretty hot cousins. I barely know them too. Not sure what i'd do in that situation. Wear a condom, i know that much. I think the possibility of deformed children is the only reason this is taboo at all. Without that, it wouldn't be.


----------



## au Lait

wow so this thread is still happening for some reason.


----------



## Solomon's Tomb

Well, if the whole world's population are descendants of Adam and Eve, then we're all the results of incest. So, in a way, the Bible promotes incest, since we're all a product of it, according to the book itself.

However, since I don't believe a word of the Book of Genesis, I say it's perfectly okay for two consenting adults to do whatever they want behind closed doors. And there's nothing wrong with cousins dating-- it's easier than trying to get into an impossible relationship with someone who you don't even know. In fact, I think it's kind of weird that we as a species _wouldn't_ want to inbreed, as the idea of copulating with a complete stranger outside the family is kind of uncomfortable when you think about it.


----------



## theseventhkey

Solomon's Tomb said:


> Well, if the whole world's population are descendants of Adam and Eve, then we're all the results of incest. So, in a way, the Bible promotes incest, since we're all a product of it, according to the book itself.
> 
> However, since I don't believe a word of the Book of Genesis, I say it's perfectly okay for two consenting adults to do whatever they want behind closed doors. And there's nothing wrong with cousins dating-- it's easier than trying to get into an impossible relationship with someone who you don't even know. In fact, I think it's kind of weird that we as a species _wouldn't_ want to inbreed, as the idea of copulating with a complete stranger outside the family is kind of uncomfortable when you think about it.


So your going ask your mother out to the movies or what?:blank


----------



## lonelyjew

I don't see it as anyone's business what people do in the bedroom. I'd never do it, but I don't see why it's my place to tell two (or more) consenting adults what they're allowed and not allowed to do. 

Also, as far as the kids go, there is more likelyhood for hidden recessive genetic disorders to come out of the woodwork (if both partners have the mutation), but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people make it out to be. A "normal" women that carries a recessive X linked disorder is going to be way more likely to have abnormal kids than two random siblings, but we don't stop her from having kids.


----------



## paperflower

(I am not suggesting that it is wrong or right--in the end it is just an action that only affects the people participating in it. These are simply my feelings towards it.)

In regards to parent/kid or sibling type incest, my natural response is that it's just a bit too weird for my taste. I will likely stay far, far away from those individuals. There are, of course, those unique circumstances such as when siblings grew up apart so they missed the crucial stage that establish that strictly non-sexual relationship. I don't remember the scientific name for this phase but it exists .-. In such cases, I could understand why so it won't reeeaaaally perturb me. 

But parent/kid incest? just..noo.. NEVERRR..


People that step a little too far off from the norm (and I mean *really* far) tend to freak me out because it makes me wonder what else are they capable of doing? If they have no boundaries in one area, it will make me feel very uncomfortable around them. As in not safe. And suddenly my better senses tell me, yeah...I'm going to stay far away before I end up dead in a box in the middle of the woods or in the lake. I realize my thought process is overly paranoid. People are just too unpredictable as it is and adding incest into the mix won't put me at ease. It is what it is. XD

Is isn't about the eww factor (which is definitely present), it is just....the questionable psychological wiring of these individuals that send a red flag. But, for all I know maybe incest is a lot more prevalent than I realize and will be totally acceptable/glamorized in the future--which is already totally happening in fiction/those oh so lovable korean dramas i love. (At least they didn't know they were siblings! /hypocrite. )


TLDR: do what you want, but you'll never catch me alone in the woods with YOUU


also hi, my first post  yay.


----------



## Fruitcake

^ Hi.


----------



## MindOverMood




----------



## Canucklehead




----------



## colder

.


----------



## Laith

I disapprove...

Unless of course I ever find out Mila Kunis is my sister, in which case I would strongly approve.


----------



## ShadowOnTheWall

For cousins, its normal to have those feeling, though don't act on them. I guess the dna is different enough its within biological norms to find attraction, just not to have kids.

For siblings, and parent child










Edit: Fancying your own parent or sibling or child(!!!!!!!!!!) is definitely weird, but our feelings alone cannot be sinful or hurtful, its what we do with them.It may be a sign that you've been abnormally raised and/or gone through some kind of psychological trauma. For all that is good don't act on it, especially with your kid.


----------



## Lazercarp1

so long as they don't have any kids and it's between consenting adults then I don't care tbh if it makes them happy then you go incesters. It's obviously not something I'd do but it doesn't hurt anyone so I don't see the issue


----------



## tony420

doesnt bother me i don'tthink of it but

its your descion]\


----------



## Rainbat

I am only disgusted by the idea of a mother & son incestuous relationship. For some reason the idea of father & daughter or brother & sister does not disgust me. I am neutral towards it. I assume this is because I am an only child that was raised primarily by my mother, so the idea of people being sexual with their mothers disgusts me completely.

This page is worth checking out if you're interested in understanding why the circumstances of how you're raised can influence your feelings towards incest: click!

Also another interesting concept is genetic sexual attraction which argues that relatives, especially siblings, who meet for the first time as older teens or adults, will feel strong attraction towards one another due to their many similarities.


----------



## AxeDroid

I don't really care, if both of them are adult and understand what they are about to engage, then it's up to them. As long as they are flashing it in public(which is a bad idea), I really could care less.


----------



## jimity

Nekomata said:


> I totally approve. It's actually a pretty hot thought to me too. Just so long as a string of family members arn't born from it, that's all that matters.


I agree. It's pretty hot and fantasizing about a female cousin or auntie get's me off like no other woman. One of my uncles and aunties are cousins and a married. They had a kid and all was fine


----------



## alissaxvanity

I don't think it's for anyone else to decide what is gross and what isn't. If two adults feel it's right, it's right.


----------



## Corvus Cowl

alissaxvanity said:


> I don't think it's for anyone else to decide what is gross and what isn't. If two adults feel it's right, it's right.


:yes


----------



## namebn

used to make out with my cousin. though we were just kids at the time and didn't know any better. think that last time we were around 10. either way i don't care what other people do.


----------



## sarafinanickelbocker

yeah yech! :/ Usually it's a rapey story, besides.


----------



## Lazercarp1

I like the fact so many people think that them personally being disgusted by it makes it morally wrong


----------



## Donkeybutt

Totally disgusting. If they're related, then there is always the possibility of their offspring being mentally retarded or physically deformed, that is if they do reproduce. Either way, it's wrong.


----------



## arnie




----------



## Testsubject

Are we talking blood relation only? Because if by some sick twisted chance of fate Alexandra Daddario, Scarlett Johansson or any other woman of my dreams turned out to be a step sister, mother, hell step anything, all bets are off. I will willing commit taboo.


----------



## scooby

Incest sex + birth control = What's the problem?


----------



## probably offline

My younger cousin used to have a very obvious crush on me. I sometimes remember that when I see him now, as adults :lol


----------



## mrbeansuperman

If in the remotest possibility I get married and have a child and becomes a very beautiful lady I will never foil her in any way but nobody will know the things I'm thinking of in my head when I am privately taking care of my needs with my hand, and nobody needs to know.


----------



## cafune

It doesn't cause a visceral disgusted reaction in me, but it's not my cup of tea. Adults are free to do as they'd like.

Personally, I've had a few aunts mention my older guy cousins to me as though they were prospective lovers and I _really_ didn't appreciate that.


----------



## Testsubject

If you are religious and believe in Adam and eve or Adam and Lilith, wouldn't that technically mean we are all one big incested species ?


----------



## Gwynevere

Idk if this was brought up already, but the option "I've been in an incestuous relationship" doesn't answer the question of how one feels about it. I'd suggest splitting it into "..and I'm okay with it" and "...and it was awful/traumatizing/etc."


----------



## Crimson Lotus

Are they both adults, fully consenting and taking precautions to avoid conception?

If so, then I say to let it be.

The world needs more kinkyness.


----------



## Royals

Just ask Woody Allen or Charles Darwin 

A lot of kids believe one of their cousins is hot or what not. But that doesn't mean you should go further with that. Like, there is no one else to chose than your family? It's just wrong on so many levels.

"Marriages between first and second cousins account for over *10% *of marriages worldwide". 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CousinMarriageWorld.svg

Look at the blue where it's legal. Almost the whole world. I knew the world was immoral but.....

I also would like to know who the 5 voters on this poll are


----------



## millenniumman75

Royals said:


> I also would like to know who the 5 voters on this poll are


 The 81 laissez-faire people concern me just as much!


----------



## AmandaMarie87

I wouldn't do it myself. I just think incestuous couples should not have biological children together due to genetic risks.


----------



## Milco

AmandaMarie87 said:


> I wouldn't do it myself. I just think incestuous couples should not have biological children together due to genetic risks.


The genetic risk of 1 generation is apparently quite low - below many other common risk factors that aren't illegal - but they can pile up if it continues over multiple generations.
I think it needs to be geneticists and doctors making the final call on what too risky and what is permissible, but it's probably easier (and more fair) to make a law saying you can never do it, rather than that the 4th generation couldn't do it.. if that were to be the case.


----------



## SunshineSam218

It's disgusting, I don't agree with it at all. No way!


----------



## Putin

I can't wrap my mind around the concept of having romantic/sexual feelings for a family member


----------



## Elad

what we learned itt:


guys want to bang their cousins


----------



## shelbster18

Donkeybutt said:


> Totally disgusting. If they're related, then there is always the possibility of their offspring being mentally retarded or physically deformed, that is if they do reproduce. Either way, it's wrong.


I don't know if I'm missing something here or what but what does incest have to do with having a deformed child? xD I'm confused. I've seen this on another thread on SAS and I'm lost.

---------------------------------

And I don't think it's wrong unless it's a parent with their child. :um Okay, that sounded less weird in my head. Wish I had a cousin I was attracted to and that was attracted to me in return. Then that would mean they could never leave me even if we broke up. They'd always be there because they'd be my family member.










I don't want anyone judging me but I wish I had a brother my age or that was older than me for that very reason.

**** my parents for having all girls. >:[...I'm joking. If I did actually have a brother my age or older, I wonder if I would actually like it, though. I've never experienced it because I don't have a brother so I wouldn't know. Not that it counts but my brother-in-law (I guess he's considered my brother-in-law because he's my sister's husband...I think that's how it works :um) is quite attractive to me. Hehe. I've actually fantasized about him once before I think. >_> There's all kinds of embarrassment in this post. Well, not that I'm ashamed of it but don't want anyone thinking I'm weird. >.<


----------



## arnie

shelbster18 said:


> **** my parents for having all girls. >:[...I'm joking. If I did actually have a brother my age or older, I wonder if I would actually like it, though. I've never experienced it because I don't have a brother so I wouldn't know. Not that it counts but my brother-in-law (I guess he's considered my brother-in-law because he's my sister's husband...I think that's how it works


In your fantasy, an older brother is an attractive male that happens to live in your house. In reality, you would feel nothing for him if you were raised together because of the Westermarck_effect



Elad said:


> what we learned itt:
> 
> guys want to bang their cousins


I used too, but my cousin was adopted. No blood relation and it's a-ok  lol


----------



## Gwynevere

arnie said:


> In your fantasy, an older brother is an attractive male that happens to live in your house. In reality, you would feel nothing for him if you were raised together because of the Westermarck_effect
> 
> I used too, but my cousin was adopted. No blood relation and it's a-ok  lol


Reading that wiki page, looks like the Westermarck effect is nonsense. The example under the criticism section practically debunks it completely!


----------



## arnie

Gwynevere said:


> Reading that wiki page, looks like the Westermarck effect is nonsense. The example under the criticism section practically debunks it completely!


Yeah, well most guys don't feel attraction towards their sister no matter how hot she is. Don't feel like wading through research right now though. Perhaps you could find someone else to argue with tonight? :stu


----------



## prettyful

ew


----------



## NoHeart




----------



## jamesjameson

lol lots of desparation in this thread........next it will be do you want a romantic relationship with your dog.


----------



## shelbster18

arnie said:


> In your fantasy, an older brother is an attractive male that happens to live in your house. In reality, you would feel nothing for him if you were raised together because of the Westermarck_effect


Ah, thanks for clearing that up.  That makes sense.

My sister actually said that her and her husband get mistaken for brother and sister. He has the same last name as my grandparents on my mom's side. So I don't know what that means. xD

And likeaspacemonkey, I found some info on it.  I honestly did not know that if two people who are related to each other have a child that it could be at risk of becoming deformed. :um After knowing that, I think my opinion on incest has changed. Well, only if they have a child that is. :b


----------



## scooby

jamesjameson said:


> lol lots of desparation in this thread........next it will be do you want a romantic relationship with your dog.


Yeah, because thinking two consenting adults should be able to do what they want means that they support and want to have sex with animals that can't consent themselves.


----------



## Gwynevere

likeaspacemonkey said:


> ^
> So people with heritable genetic disorders shouldn't be allowed to reproduce?


That's a complicated issue. They absolutely should voluntarily choose not reproduce, and we should definitely socially discourage it, hard to say whether it should be illegal though.


----------



## Thedood

I'm generally a very open minded person about alot of things, and if brothers and sisters want to bang eachother.. well.. I guess do it.. but I would never ever even think about doing something like that myself.


----------



## scooby

Gwynevere said:


> That's a complicated issue. They absolutely should voluntarily choose not reproduce, and we should definitely socially discourage it, hard to say whether it should be illegal though.


I don't know what your take is on incest, I didn't really see if you had an answer, but I think this should be how to look at incest. I'm not sure on my view of couples with genetic disorders.


----------



## Gwynevere

scooby said:


> I don't know what your take is on incest, I didn't really see if you had an answer, but I think this should be how to look at incest. I'm not sure on my view of couples with genetic disorders.


No incest should absolutely be illegal. Too much risk of coercion and grooming.


----------



## Ineko

I think it's ok if your not blood related ie family vie marriage


----------



## scooby

Gwynevere said:


> No incest should absolutely be illegal. Too much risk of coercion and grooming.


What about between sibling? Cousins as well.


----------



## Gwynevere

scooby said:


> What about between sibling? Cousins as well.


I think the same risk exists. It's better to completely ban incest than to make it legal for people to prey on others.


----------



## scooby

Gwynevere said:


> I think the same risk exists. It's better to completely ban incest than to make it legal for people to prey on others.


Couldn't the same thing happen with family friends with children around the same age? Or other people around the same neighbourhood?


----------



## Gwynevere

scooby said:


> Couldn't the same thing happen with family friends with children around the same age? Or other people around the same neighbourhood?


Sure it's possible, the question is how big of a risk is it, and how easily could that risk be avoided. Banning incest is barely any burden, banning dating anyone in your town would be unworkable.


----------



## Micronian

Incest is pretty common when you look at history. It was common in the old testament, certainly. It was common in feudal societies. It was even a storyline in "The Godfather III".

One of the links to that act of incest was usually to keep wealth, power, or whatever was regarded as privilege, within the family circle--through marriage. Otherwise, it was due to a lack of mates. As far as I'm concerned, once the idea that love and marriage should be fused together, the practice of incest marriage became obsolete (and somewhere along the line, much like homosexuality, became a socially-learned disgust). 

That explains marriage--or at least incest as an institution--but perhaps it goes much deeper, as does homosexuality, pedophilia, or whatever other unconventional sexual desires, that we humans just naturally posess. The prevalent institutions just make those things "disgusting", "illegal", or whatever. But, because its innate in humans, it's something that will never go away, despite what laws we throw at it.

In other words, deal with it and leave people's sex lives alone.


----------



## scooby

Gwynevere said:


> Sure it's possible, the question is how big of a risk is it, and how easily could that risk be avoided. Banning incest is barely any burden, banning dating anyone in your town would be unworkable.


It is easier to ban it, but I just don't think 2 legal consenting adults should be able to be told who they can and can't love. If they are adults, they should be able to decide for themselves if they think they have been coerced. I believe people should have the freedom to do anything they want, as long as it doesn't harm other people. That's a simplified version of my view.


----------



## Gwynevere

scooby said:


> It is easier to ban it, but I just don't think 2 legal consenting adults should be able to be told who they can and can't love. If they are adults, they should be able to decide for themselves if they think they have been coerced. I believe people should have the freedom to do anything they want, as long as it doesn't harm other people. That's a simplified version of my view.


Well then that's where we ideologically disagree. I think it's the governments responsibility to protect people and that that responsibility includes prophylactic measures.


----------



## scooby

Gwynevere said:


> Well then that's where we ideologically disagree. I think it's the governments responsibility to protect people and that that responsibility includes prophylactic measures.


I guess it is. I'm glad we can disagree for once without getting into some argument at least, like we seem to do a lot.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

I went to see some family that lived in a distant state once when I was about 16. While there, we went to an uncle's house. I hadn't seen those cousins for a long time.

I didn't think anything of it at first until I found out the female cousin was checking me out. I wasn't entirely grossed out or anything but I did feel a little weird about it.

I probably wouldn't even remember that if it wasn't so rare for any female to be attracted to me. I guess it was especially shocking because she was family and that was something that females usually wouldn't be thinking about.


----------



## Raeden

Gwynevere said:


> No incest should absolutely be illegal. Too much risk of coercion and grooming.


There could be coercion and grooming in any relationship. So long as both people are above 18, then it shouldn't be _illegal_.


----------



## The Patriot

I'm going to need another shower after this thread, I don't care how attractive my sisters or female cousins are I have no desire to visit that image ever, the mere image of it makes my skin crawl, no just no, I won't even pursue like a 3rd cousin or a distant relative only because of how uncomfortable it would make my family feel, even if we weren't blood related, it be awkward for my relatives to see me with someone who has a family connection. 

I once saw a girl at one of my family functions, didn't know her who I thought was really pretty, I started talking to her little later someone comes up and introduces her as one of my grandma's brothers granddaughters that turned off any romantic ideal about her, after that I just spoke to her like a regular person. 

I saw in school the way guys would oogle my older sister, she'd drop me off at school and guys would be talking about how smoking hot she is and it made me very uncomfortable, I recognize she fits into alot of guys ideals about an attractive woman but she's just my sister. Yeah I stay away from those ugh mental images.


----------



## buklti

I disapprove of anything going on in an immediate family. Otherwise, I don't care. I had a great uncle and aunt who were cousins and they got married and had no kids. No big deal.


----------



## diamondheart89

It's disgusting to me. 



But, incest between siblings who didn't grow up together is whatever. I don't care what they do. Now if it's between an authority figure and someone they groomed, then no. Hell no.


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## equiiaddict

I think it's disgusting.


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## anyoldkindofday

If it's two adults that love eachother what's the harm in letting them be?

Sure if one or both are children I'll agree there's very likely something not alright, but then the issue isn't that they're family, but that one is probably taking advantage of the other.


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## diamondheart89

likeaspacemonkey said:


> So it's disgusting only if the siblings grew up together? Makes no sense whatsoever.


Well yeah. If they didn't grow up together they don't know each other. Sleeping with someone you grew up with as a sibling is a different level of perversion.


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## Gwynevere

likeaspacemonkey said:


> So it's disgusting only if the siblings grew up together? Makes no sense whatsoever.


How does it make no sense, it was discussed multiple times in this thread - the risks of grooming and coercion


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## Richard Pawgins

queenbanana said:


> Not referring to sex alone, but the concept of developing romantic feelings or sexual desires towards a sibling, cousin, or any other family member.
> Personally, I think it's okay as long as they don't attempt to create a fetus.


I personally think it's disgusting and it's something i'd never do

but you and I could pretend to be siblings if you're down with that

:yes


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## anyoldkindofday

Gwynevere said:


> How does it make no sense, it was discussed multiple times in this thread - the risks of grooming and coercion


Then the issue lies not with incest, but with grooming and coercion. So the important question is, does making/keeping incest illegal prevent this grooming and coercion from taking place? I haven't had a good long thought about it yet (but then again who here has). I can see why it might, but I also think it's very possible that it doesn't, in which case incest being illegal has no real benefits while at the same time making life a lot harder for those that do fall in love with a family member.


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## starburst93

As long as it's consensual i don't care.


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## s1819

The polls should have immoral instead of it's a sin because religion now has correlation with being foolish so people might avoid voting that plus there are many atheist here.


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## JakeBoston1000

approve


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## M0rbid

JakeBoston1000 said:


> approve


lol wut? =.=


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## JakeBoston1000

Hey Morbid :b I banged my cousin so I felt compelled to vote "approve" . When something feels so right how could it possibly be wrong?


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## aGenericUsername

I've never been in an incestuous relationship, but I'm not gonna lie... I've thought about my cousin a few times. Is that normal?


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## buklti

I think its normal. I've got a decent looking cousin.


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## RedViperofDorne

I find the idea of consensual sibling incest to be quite erotic. I think I actually envy guys who have attractive sisters. I wouldn't be interested in doing it myself, but I like the thought of other people doing it.


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## Kalliber

It's disgusting


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