# Woman Not Driving



## ericastooge (May 20, 2009)

Is a woman that doesn't have a drivers license a turn off to a man who does have one? A question to the men on this forum.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

How do you live in Texas without a license? Is the public transport good in Austin?


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## flamingwind (Jan 1, 2013)

Depends, for me I really don't care. I only got my liscense so that people could shut up about it.


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## ericastooge (May 20, 2009)

komorikun said:


> How do you live in Texas without a license? Is the public transport good in Austin?


I live with my parents and I don't really go anywhere. I just go with my mom and dad at times to go do some things or to just be together somewhere having fun.


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## 50piecesteve (Feb 28, 2012)

oh my god their terrible yes, take their drivers license from them please.


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

it means I have to drive so yes


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## Irvine (May 30, 2012)

I never heard of women driving. That such thing exist?


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I have a date with a woman on Wednesday with a girl who doesn't drive. She's taking the subway to the location. It is never a good idea to agree to have a stranger you met online to pick you up. Never get in the car with a man you have never met in-person before. Even though it's more gentlemanly to pick a woman up, it's retarded on a girl's part to agree to this with a guy she met online. I plan on offering her a ride to her place afterwards. Because at least after the first date she'll get a sense that I can be trusted and am not a criminal or psycho.

Honestly things are actually at a disadvantage to an extent if the girl drives and you drive too. Being able to drive a girl home opens up opportunities for making out (or more) in the backseat of my car. Offers you the opportunity to get invited into her place afterwards. If both of you are driving and you get the invite afterwards, she has to tell you where her place is and you each have to drive your own cars to there. That makes the situation awkward.

The thing that irritates me is how it's perfectly fine for a guy to drive around a girl all the time for dates. In fact it's actually expected of a man to be a gentleman and drive his lady around. But yet when the driver is female and the passenger is male, the female driver begins to resent the man, call him a loser (! yes I see this all the time) and ***** about how she has to drive him everywhere. This is such a bull**** double standard. We still have old gender role hold overs in our society that don't really apply anymore in a society where women have the opportunity to earn just as much as men. 

And when women don't earn as much as men, it's because they're pumping out babies (if you've never given birth or been a housewife, I don't want to hear you complain about the gender wage gap unless there's a man at your company working your same job, same hours with the same seniority level who is making more than you) and/or not willing to make the necessary personal sacrifices to further their career. Men typically are more willing to work longer hours, women tend to want more flexible schedules and men are more willing to work unsafe jobs. My company takes pay equity very seriously. I work in pay equity and job evaluation as part of my job. I know what I'm talking about. We take into account various factors (including things like on-the-job health risks, unsafe/uncomfortable work conditions, etc. which men are more willing to tolerate) to decide whether a male-dominated job is of equal value to a female-dominated job. Admittedly, not every company is dedicated to pay equity. But I'm sure every company worth their salt takes pay equity seriously.

The girl I last went out with is a therapist ffs (she makes a good bit more than me). She's a big girl, she can take care of herself. This is why I didn't push it when she insisted on paying her tab for the second date (she let me take the first and all she had was tea anyway). And why I let her drive herself to dates. She's not some delicate flower that needs to be driven around everywhere and be paid for.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

Sounds like something to challenge yourself with. 

Get your permit, take a driving course, study and practice, practice , practice. 

Once you get it, you don't have to use it, but you may find yourself wanting to go places without Mom or Dad. It also will come in handy when you need to show an ID.


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## SuperSky (Feb 16, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> I have a date with a woman on Wednesday with a girl who doesn't drive. She's taking the subway to the location. It is never a good idea to agree to have a stranger you met online to pick you up. Never get in the car with a man you have never met in-person before. Even though it's more gentlemanly to pick a woman up, it's retarded on a girl's part to agree to this with a guy she met online. I plan on offering her a ride to her place afterwards. Because at least after the first date she'll get a sense that I can be trusted and am not a criminal or psycho.
> 
> Honestly things are actually at a disadvantage to an extent if the girl drives and you drive too. Being able to drive a girl home opens up opportunities for making out (or more) in the backseat of my car. Offers you the opportunity to get invited into her place afterwards. If both of you are driving and you get the invite afterwards, she has to tell you where her place is and you each have to drive your own cars to there. That makes the situation awkward.
> 
> ...


Someone got a little off topic there...


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Phoenix always writes like 2 paragraphs initially and then adds 2 or 3 more a few minutes later.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

phoenixwright said:


> I have a date with a woman on Wednesday with a girl who doesn't drive. She's taking the subway to the location. It is never a good idea to agree to have a stranger you met online to pick you up. Never get in the car with a man you have never met in-person before. Even though it's more gentlemanly to pick a woman up, it's retarded on a girl's part to agree to this with a guy she met online. I plan on offering her a ride to her place afterwards. Because at least after the first date she'll get a sense that I can be trusted and am not a criminal or psycho.
> 
> Honestly things are actually at a disadvantage to an extent if the girl drives and you drive too. Being able to drive a girl home opens up opportunities for making out (or more) in the backseat of my car. Offers you the opportunity to get invited into her place afterwards. If both of you are driving and you get the invite afterwards, she has to tell you where her place is and you each have to drive your own cars to there. That makes the situation awkward.
> 
> ...


Cool story, bro.


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## Secretaz (Sep 10, 2011)

Men has to waste more money on gas because of you, why would that be a turn on? And they have to drive you everywhere, don't you think that would be annoying to them?


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## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

No - there is quite ok public transport here, as well bikes exist, too. We dont need a drivers license for bikes over here. And biking is healthy....I would have no problem to take her for a ride with my car though if shes cool (I did that actually some times int he past). However if it gets too much she just should pay some petrol or cook a fine meal for me in exchange..

....but when I think about it now - my car is probably too old meanwhile that "high status woman" would even take a look at. Its a VW Golf 3 - 15 years old


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## General Specific (Mar 4, 2008)

I would prefer it if the girl had her drivers licence or was getting it in the near future. I would be annoyed if I was expected to constantly drive everywhere.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Don't have a license myself 
There's decent public transportation here, so I haven't needed a car yet and I wouldn't have it as any requirement for a potential girlfriend.


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## gof22 (Dec 25, 2012)

I don't have a driver's license either. No, I don't see it as a turnoff.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Her not driving isn't going to scare me away. I'd be willing to teach her even.


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

Not a turn off at all. I'd actually like to be the one who drives.


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## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

leave me alone said:


> Not a turn off at all. I'd actually like to be the one who drives.


Frau am Steuer - Ungeheuer :clap


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

ericastooge said:


> Is a woman that doesn't have a drivers license a turn off to a man who does have one? A question to the men on this forum.


That's a plus, they shouldn't have licenses anyway(most them can't drive for **** anyway). :lol


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Secretaz said:


> Men has to waste more money on gas because of you, why would that be a turn on? And they have to drive you everywhere, don't you think that would be annoying to them?


Exactly. It's socially expected that a "gentleman" should drive around his lady all over the place. But god forbid that your girlfriend is the driver. Then she will resent the hell out of it. Women are incredibly spoiled in 2013. They have equal opportunity in the workforce and many of them still expect to be taken care of like children. If women choose not to pay their own way and rely on men to take care of them (housewives, prostitutes, etc.) That's fine. But if you have a decent job, there is no excuse to take advantage of men like that.

Coles Notes version of my above social commentary essay.



arnie said:


> Cool story, bro.


Typical 21st century white knighting.


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## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

phoenixwright said:


> Women are incredibly spoiled in 2013. .


I think 2010,2011 and 2012 too 

Mh, what does the OP asking the question has to say to all our answers ? :um
(especially mine of course )


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

Secretaz said:


> Men has to waste more money on gas because of you, why would that be a turn on? And they have to drive you everywhere, don't you think that would be annoying to them?


It's not a turn *on*. The OP question if it's a turn *off*.

Technically: I think of turn offs as things that make someone less sexually attractive. This is an inconvenience and a hassle, but it's not a turn off. Obviously, I would prefer to date someone that knows how to drive, just because it makes life easier.

However from a girl's perspective: If a guy doesn't know how to drive, that actually is a turn off.


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## BrookeHannigan (Mar 29, 2012)

Lol why do all guys exepect that the girls wants you to drive her everywhere
Not every girl is like that
My bf has a licence i dont,
I always go with my bike unless we are going somewhere together,
Its not like oh i want to go shopping let me call s.
No i just grab my bike and ride away or go on ebay
I go everywhere by bike,i dislike cars very much


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

phoenixwright said:


> Typical 21st century white knighting.


:lol


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## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

BrookeHannigan said:


> I always go with my bike unless we are going somewhere together,
> Its not like oh i want to go shopping let me call s.
> No i just grab my bike and ride away or go on ebay
> I go everywhere by bike,i dislike cars very much


You serve as the lone good example woman here haha:boogie

I guess most would be to lazy to bike or its below their standards....

I would also bike but we have like -10C here, so better not in this season lol


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Yes especially if she just sticks me with the gas bills because she has never owned a car before and has no idea how much gas really costs.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Women should not be driving, period. So yes, no license is a HUGE turn-on.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Not a turnoff.

But since I don't have one either, I would never date you, because we would never get anywhere.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> Women should not be driving, period. So yes, no license is a HUGE turn-on.


Yes women should be riding cowgirl, not cars. And they should be in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant.

lol jk.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

rymo said:


> Women should not be driving, period. So yes, no license is a HUGE turn-on.


I thought you were the least sexist poster here.

Obviously, I was wrong.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> I thought you were the least sexist poster here.
> 
> Obviously, I was wrong.


 I was exaggerating, but I will absolutely admit I am quite sexist when it comes to women and driving: in my personal experience it's always been women tailgating the **** out of me and just generally driving like morons. Guys can obviously drive badly as well, but they usually know it and don't care. (Some) women are just ignorant to their terrible driving skills.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> I was exaggerating, but I will absolutely admit I am quite sexist when it comes to women and driving: in my personal experience it's always been women tailgating the **** out of me and just generally driving like morons. Guys can obviously drive badly as well, but they usually know it and don't care. (Some) women are just ignorant to their terrible driving skills.


To be fair, male drivers are more likely to get into accidents (or more costly accidents anyway) or speed. That's why auto insurance rates are higher for men than women. Female drivers tend to suck. But they're less likely to get into accidents (or at least the big accidents anyway) and speed. I'm a relatively notice driver. Started driving regularly only since June. And I find that I'm more comfortable behind the wheel than most women. Though I can't parallel park for **** and my parking skills in general are crap. I backed into a wall once in a back-in only underground parking garage in downtown Toronto. And I hit and run (it was a slight hit though) a parked car in another underground parking garage.

If the whole men paying more auto insurance than women thing was an anti-male conspiracy, I would be ranting about it in this thread. Believe me. lol.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> To be fair, male drivers are more likely to get into accidents or speed. That's why auto insurance rates are higher for men than women.
> 
> If the whole men paying more auto insurance than women thing was an anti-male conspiracy, I would be ranting about it in this thread. Believe me. lol.


I know, probably because guys are more aggressive (and teenagers suck). But like I said, I base this purely on personal experience. 95% of the time when I see a car in my rear-view mirror tail-gating me, it's a woman. It's like they have no depth perception at all.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

rymo said:


> I was exaggerating, but I will absolutely admit I am quite sexist when it comes to women and driving: in my personal experience it's always been women tailgating the **** out of me and just generally driving like morons. Guys can obviously drive badly as well, but they usually know it and don't care. (Some) women are just ignorant to their terrible driving skills.


I will repeat your own advice back to you.

*Women are human beings, individuals, and should be treated as such. *


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> I will repeat your own advice back to you.
> 
> *Women are human beings, individuals, and should be treated as such. *


Meh, not when it comes to driving. They're all animals! lawl


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## ericastooge (May 20, 2009)

I think I prefer the man to take charge. I'm not really the type of girl who would just use the man to get me anywhere all the time like I don't notice how annoying it can get. I'm gonna work on my license anyways. Even if I did had it, if I get married, he's driving when ever we're together as a family. It just looks weird to me if we have kids and I'm driving the van and the husband is in the passenger seat. If I need to go somewhere, he'll make the decision if he wants to take me. Besides, he should love me anyways, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not going to be annoying and want him to take me somewhere everyday.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

I wouldnt get into a serious relationship with a woman that doesnt drive. I am not a chauffeur.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

phoenixwright said:


> I have a date with a woman on Wednesday with a girl who doesn't drive. She's taking the subway to the location. It is never a good idea to agree to have a stranger you met online to pick you up. Never get in the car with a man you have never met in-person before. Even though it's more gentlemanly to pick a woman up, it's retarded on a girl's part to agree to this with a guy she met online. I plan on offering her a ride to her place afterwards. Because at least after the first date she'll get a sense that I can be trusted and am not a criminal or psycho.
> 
> Honestly things are actually at a disadvantage to an extent if the girl drives and you drive too. Being able to drive a girl home opens up opportunities for making out (or more) in the backseat of my car. Offers you the opportunity to get invited into her place afterwards. If both of you are driving and you get the invite afterwards, she has to tell you where her place is and you each have to drive your own cars to there. That makes the situation awkward.
> 
> ...


Being emasculated is a HUGE turn off for me.


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## Isabelle50 (Nov 19, 2012)

If you have your own way to get around then I don't think it matters. I live in the city, always have and I use public transit, most young people here do. If you live somewhere you can't get around without a car though.... yeah that might be a problem, no one wants to be chauffeur.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

Isabelle50 said:


> If you have your own way to get around then I don't think it matters. I live in the city, always have and I use public transit, most young people here do. If you live somewhere you can't get around without a car though.... yeah that might be a problem, no one wants to be chauffeur.


What city do you live in?
Isn't it considered uncool to not drive by the time you're a certain age?


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## Isabelle50 (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm in Toronto now and was in Vancouver before. Maybe its just my group of people but it really doesn't matter. It can even be an advantage because I never have to be DD (or even need a DD).


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

I got my license years ago but I don't drive because it makes me anxious and I don't have a car anyways. It doesn't really make a difference where I live because a lot of people are poor and rely on public transportation (I'm one of them.) I'm sure I wouldn't be judged for it, unless it was some fancy rich guy.


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## Rich19 (Aug 11, 2012)

LOL guys don't think like that, we're more intrested in your physical aspects


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## thebluewarrior (Mar 28, 2006)

Isabelle50 said:


> I'm in Toronto now and was in Vancouver before. Maybe its just my group of people but it really doesn't matter. It can even be an advantage because I never have to be DD (or even need a DD).


Yeah, the traffic in downtown Toronto is awful you are always better off using TTC or walking. On the other-hand anyone living or working outside our miserable public transit lines will unfortunately need a car.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

"Hey man."
"Sup?"
"Well you see..there's this chick, right.."
"Yeh..go on!"
"Well she's cute and smart and fun and I...I think I really like her..."
"Okay..what's the problem?"
"Well...sigh...nevermind.."
"Spit it out! It can't be that bad! Is she addicted to heroin? Did she kill somebody?"
"Nah man...she - she doesn't have her license..."
"Wh - what? Did I hear you right?"
"Yeh...no license..."
"Oh my god...dude you can't see her anymore. You know that right?"
"I know but -"
"NO! No buts! You know how messed up those no license girls are. They can't drive man! Do you understand the implications of that?"
"Yeh, I guess.."
"You guess? You guess? What if you want her to pick up a pineapple for you from the grocery store while you're at work? Can't do it. What if you want her to take over driving while you paint your nails in the passenger seat? No can do!"
"ALRIGHT! Alright already...I get it! Please stop! I'll put an end to this...right now." [runs off sobbing]


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## callalilly26 (Jun 13, 2012)

I've had my license since I was 16. It depends on where you're from though. For instance, if you're from a big city...it really isn't needed. But if you're from an area where you need to drive, I really think you should have your license. I know it all depends on the situation, but if I were the guy, I'd be annoyed in that situation. It's not always fair for one person to be driving...actually it's ignorant imo.


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## callalilly26 (Jun 13, 2012)

Toronto drivers are insane. I drive in the city occasionally (I'm from Buffalo) and you've really got to be aware of everything. Walking is a better option there!



yulian said:


> Yeah, the traffic in downtown Toronto is awful you are always better off using TTC or walking. On the other-hand anyone living or working outside our miserable public transit lines will unfortunately need a car.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

yulian said:


> Yeah, the traffic in downtown Toronto is awful you are always better off using TTC or walking. On the other-hand anyone living or working outside our miserable public transit lines will unfortunately need a car.


i hate it when people say that you don't need a car if you live in Toronto. Not all of Toronto is created equal in terms of public transit quality. Give me a person who says they don't need a car in Toronto and I guarantee they live near a subway line and they don't stray very far from subway lines. TTC streetcar and bus service is not that great.


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## woot (Aug 7, 2009)

Women cannot drive. We need a law that restricts them. They are just awful drivers.


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## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

woot said:


> Women cannot drive. We need a law that restricts them. They are just awful drivers.


Myth:no

i knew some women that could drive, ok we men always joke about them in reality they may be better (not as agressive and more patient for example)


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## Isabelle50 (Nov 19, 2012)

> Give me a person who says they don't need a car in Toronto and I guarantee they live near a subway line and they don't stray very far from subway lines. TTC streetcar and bus service is not that great.


He's right. I live by the subway and rarely go out to mississauga. TTC sucks and is insanely expensive. Not as expensive as parking in downtown Toronto though....


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Isabelle50 said:


> He's right. I live by the subway and rarely go out to mississauga. TTC sucks and is insanely expensive. Not as expensive as parking in downtown Toronto though....


its not just the 905 suburbs that have poor transit. Getting around the City of Toronto itself can be annoying without a car. Depending where you live and where you want to go. It can take awhile to wait for the ttc bus or streetcar and they can be slow. The further you venture away from a subway line, the more people tend to drive.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

depends on how old she is tbh.... if shes like a teen or early twenties then it ok if she doesnt... but if shes like 25 and up and doesnt have a drivers licence i might be a little concerned... its not so much about dating and stuff because i have no problem being the one whos always driving, its more that it might make me think shes irresponsible or immature or something, esp if she doesnt have SA or anything like that cause then it could just be laziness...

but that being said it definetly wouldnt be a deal breaker... the only time it would be is if she couldnt drive ontop of other stuff... if she were to show that she want immature or lazy in other ways like having a job, or going to school, and as long as she didnt use me as a chauffeur than its not problem... i guess it just really depends on the person..

and by chauffeur i mean by asking for me to pick her up and drop her off every were. Like i would say a girl using her boyfriend for nondate related transportation every other day is kind of treating him like a chauffeur... i wouldnt mind helping her get around like once or twice a week but i cant be her personal taxi though... i hope that make sense


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

I'm always shocked at the number of people I know who don't drive. It isn't always just women, but it usually is. And these people don't live in metropolises like NYC either. I don't get why they aren't motivated at all.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

srschirm said:


> I'm always shocked at the number of people I know who don't drive. It isn't always just women, but it usually is. And these people don't live in metropolises like NYC either. I don't get why they aren't motivated at all.


Auto insurance tends to be a lot cheaper in the US as well. So there isn't that excuse. Gas is cheaper in the US too! Here in the Greater Toronto Area, they bend you over and make you take it with the auto insurance rates here. This is why I avoided owning a car for a long time even though I live in the suburbs. I understand that automobile insurance rates are high in the GTA because of the ridiculous traffic congestion here and all the accidents. But the public transit isn't good enough here to go without owning a car. Auto insurance is a necessity and should be priced accordingly (cheap).

When "poor" people in the US choose to live in their car to make ends meet (in America, the car is more valuable than an apartment unless it's a metropolis like NYC), that tells you everything you need to know about how cheap automobile ownership is in the US relative to the rest of the world.


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## Unknown88 (Aug 21, 2012)

I live in the capital city where most places can be reached via public transport, driving isn't a priority for me right now. It'd bleed me dry.

One day I want to own my dream ride though, a funeral hearse with sub-woofers in the coffin <3 parking would be a nightmare but I would look SO cool!


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## gusstaf (Jan 1, 2012)

woot said:


> Women cannot drive. We need a law that restricts them. They are just awful drivers.


Yes, because turning into Saudi Arabia is such a good idea.

Gender wars aside, I have an add-on to the OP's question: what if she has her license but no car? That's my situation. I've been saving up forever, but when I have to make a choice between college tuition and car, my money inevitably goes to the tuition. I occasionally have access to a vehicle but not on a consistent basis. I feel like nobody is going to take me seriously as an adult until I have a car.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

gusstaf said:


> Yes, because turning into Saudi Arabia is such a good idea.


It's funny how in Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive. But over in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, which is like right next to Saudi Arabia I believe, it's not unusual for rich arab women to be driving Ferraris and BMWs. I saw an interview of this arab woman from Dubai who is a member of the Ferrari racing team in Dubai. Imagine some burqa chick street racing in a black Ferrari.


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

^^ srschirm!! Long time no see. :yes

My best friend is 20 and doesn't have her license. She just keeps putting it off, and it's not high on her priority list. My other best friend is 19 and doesn't have his license either, and it's the same situation with him. I can't see this holding them back too much in the dating world for now, though, because they live on their college campuses and plenty of people don't have cars; most people use the university's shuttle system to get around. It's really hard to get your license if you go away for college; you'll be on campus most of the time and will thus only be able to get driving practice in during breaks. It's best just to get it over with in high school.


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## awkwardsilent (Jun 14, 2012)

I think I got my liscense at 25. I didn't own a vehicle, I lived in a city, and then in a small town where it is no more than 1/2 hour to walk everywhere. I can carry groceries home etc, and once in a blue moon get a taxi. I finally got my liscense just so I could be designated driver at times, and so I could drive rentals when road tripping. 

That said, if I can avoid city driving I will. I like hiway driving, I'm okay in small towns and small cities. I can tolerate moderate size cities but really have no desire to even try driving in a huge city.


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## thebluewarrior (Mar 28, 2006)

phoenixwright said:


> Auto insurance tends to be a lot cheaper in the US as well. So there isn't that excuse. Gas is cheaper in the US too! Here in the Greater Toronto Area, they bend you over and make you take it with the auto insurance rates here. This is why I avoided owning a car for a long time even though I live in the suburbs. I understand that automobile insurance rates are high in the GTA because of the ridiculous traffic congestion here and all the accidents. But the public transit isn't good enough here to go without owning a car. Auto insurance is a necessity and should be priced accordingly (cheap).
> 
> When "poor" people in the US choose to live in their car to make ends meet (in America, the car is more valuable than an apartment unless it's a metropolis like NYC), that tells you everything you need to know about how cheap automobile ownership is in the US relative to the rest of the world.


What worries me the most is that things are going to get even more congested soon. We are currently borrowing more cranes then any other city in the world, and building condos on top of condos. Yet our public transport system is so behind....we are definitely going to be so eff'ed doesn't matter if it's car or TTC. There already has been a few times that the drive to downtown was so awful and congested that I had to turn around and drive back home.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

It's good that you guys are building more high rise apartments. That will help to keep rents down. They don't build crap in SF, so the rents are sky high. There are very few apartments that are more than 2 stories high and they can't really build outward cause of the ocean.


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## thebluewarrior (Mar 28, 2006)

komorikun said:


> It's good that you guys are building more high rise apartments. That will help to keep rents down. They don't build crap in SF, so the rents are sky high. There are very few apartments that are more than 2 stories high and they can't really build outward cause of the ocean.


Yes, but take a look at our amazing subway line and compare it to any in the states, shocking.


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## enfield (Sep 4, 2010)

komorikun said:


> It's good that you guys are building more high rise apartments. That will help to keep rents down. They don't build crap in SF, so the rents are sky high. There are very few apartments that are more than 2 stories high and they can't really build outward cause of the ocean.


i was wondering the other day how come more stories were never added to our 2-story apartment (the fact that the roof it totally flat made this thought come easily to me). that made me wonder how come lots of places aren't taller. i guess private property makes things complicated? and the initial costs are really high? i still feel like you could reach a deal with the renters to leave (but this might be expensive because of rent control so people would need a lot of incentive to move), tear down the buildings as i figure you would have to, and replace them with new ones that accommodate a lot more people (and shouldn't building larger buildings be a lot cheaper now than in the past?).

there are lots of things messed up about real-estate actually... i forget that. like they should be condos... or the city, which is pure and aligned completely with our interests, should own them, and only charge as much as is needed to do the things that would be best for everyone for it to do.

but _one_ problem is undeniably the space problem and lack of room in cities for people who want to live in cities because they contain valuable things that make life better.


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## enfield (Sep 4, 2010)

komorikun said:


> Better than San Francisco, for sure. BART branches off when it leaves the city but within SF it is only one line. And the muni train and buses are super slow. They stop every 2-3 blocks. It's horrible. And people here say SF has great public transit. It is such a lie. I miss Osaka. Hell, even Sapporo was better than here.
> 
> http://www.kotsu.city.osaka.lg.jp/foreign/english/subway/image/map.pdf


elon musk (founder of space x - the company contracted by nasa to manage the missions to the international space station and back - and of tesla motors, a high-end electric car company for now) is going to build _the hyperloop.

_in california. so everything's gonna be fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop



> _This system I have in mind, how would you like something that can never crash, is immune to weather, it goes 3 or 4 times faster than the bullet train... it goes an average speed of twice what an aircraft would do. You would go from downtown LA to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes. It would cost you much less than an air ticket than any other mode of transport. I think we could actually make it self-powering if you put solar panels on it, you generate more power than you would consume in the system. There's a way to store the power so it would run 24/7 without using batteries. Yes, this is possible, absolutely._ - Elon Musk, July 12, 2012
> 
> _What you want is something that never crashes, that's at least twice as fast as a plane, that's solar powered and that leaves right when you arrive, so there is no waiting for a specific departure time," Musk says. His friends claim he's had a Hyperloop technological breakthrough over the summer. "I'd like to talk to the governor and president about it," Musk continues. "Because the $60 billion bullet train they're proposing in California would be the slowest bullet train in the world at the highest cost per mile. They're going for records in all the wrong ways." The cost of the SF-LA Hyperloop would be in the $6 billion range, he says_ - Sept 13, 2012 [6]


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

The other reason they don't build bigger buildings here is cause the neighbors complain. The neighbors will lose all their sunlight and of course they have to live next to the noise of the construction for years. And in some areas they want to protect all those victorian houses.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

enfield said:


> elon musk (founder of space x - the company contracted by nasa to manage the missions to the international space station and back - and of tesla motors, a high-end electric car company for now) is going to build _the hyperloop.
> 
> _in california. so everything's gonna be fine.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop


That will probably happen after I'm dead.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

yulian said:


> What worries me the most is that things are going to get even more congested soon. We are currently borrowing more cranes then any other city in the world, and building condos on top of condos. Yet our public transport system is so behind....we are definitely going to be so eff'ed doesn't matter if it's car or TTC. There already has been a few times that the drive to downtown was so awful and congested that I had to turn around and drive back home.


Yeah I don't like driving in downtown Toronto. lol. I drove to the downtown core twice in order to attend toastmasters events. One time was an absolute nightmare for me. The other time I accidentally backed into a concrete wall in a back-in only Green P parking garage (!). My back-in parking skills suck and I paid the price for it! lol. And forget about driving downtown during busy events like New Year's Eve, Nuit Blanche or popular events (I took the GO to see Coldplay at the ACC) and sporting events (Jays, Leafs, UFC, etc). I parked my car at Islington station for free since it's a holiday (I live in Mississauga) and took the subway from there. I've been doing that lately for attending toastmasters events.

They're going to have to get a downtown relief subway line built soon because the Yonge line southbound from Finch to Union is above capacity during morning rush hours. And they need more rail lines (subways ideally but LRT is being looked at as a cost effective alternative) in general because large parts of the city are under-serviced with crappy buses and streetcars or the buses/streetcars are above capacity during rush hours.

Driving in "Old Toronto" (particularly downtown. But outside the downtown can be pretty annoying too) and the busier parts of the 416 suburbs (North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough, York and East York) is a pain in the *** much of the time because of the traffic congestion and having to pay for parking (most available parking in the suburbs is "free". I say "free" because it's actually indirectly subsidized one way or another) or alternatively, having to hunt down the nearest available free parking spot, which is often far away from your destination (!).


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## enfield (Sep 4, 2010)

komorikun said:


> That will probably happen after I'm dead.


you were _supposed_ to be impressed.

but i guess there is no time frame for the project yet. but i doubt it would exceed two decades or even 15 years. the cost of solar power is coming down really fast. it used to be that you needed to wait almost two decades for the value of the produced energy to pay for the panel itself but (a decade later) it's now only a few years wait and the profits after are higher. on some islands the prices are already competitive with coal. so that makes me optimistic. plus he has already tackled other ambitious projects.

oh yeah let me find the source for some of that 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power#Grid_parity


> Grid parity, the point at which photovoltaic electricity is equal to or cheaper than grid power, is achieved first in areas with abundant sun and high costs for electricity such as in California and Japan.[69]
> Grid parity has been reached in Hawaii and other islands that otherwise use fossil fuel (diesel fuel) to produce electricity, and most of the US is expected to reach grid parity by 2015.[70][71]


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Hey tbyr! Things have been crazy lately, but I'll try to make myself less scarce around here. Hope you're doing wel!


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

^ Sorry to hear that, I hope you're holding up okay! Things are good over here, thankfully.


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## straightarrows (Jun 18, 2010)

just get a Fake one and save ur time and money


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## callalilly26 (Jun 13, 2012)

I really like how some of the girls in earlier posts on here who *DON'T* drive were saying that it isn't a turn off. That's hilarious.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

callalilly26 said:


> I really like how some of the girls in earlier posts on here who *DON'T* drive were saying that it isn't a turn off. That's hilarious.


:yes


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## catcharay (Sep 15, 2011)

I think a girl with independence will always be a turn on. At 22, I had an extreme self pressure to get it..and I did, yay! It was a bit late...but yeah I got it lol


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## missalyssa (Jun 18, 2011)

Hmmm I am a girl and I think if I didn't have my license it would definitely have made my dating life difficult. I like the freedom of being able to go places and not be picked up. I also feel like not having a license would come off as dependent and I like to be able to do my own thing without relying on others. It's nice too, to be able to be the DD some nights if you're going out to allow your date to drink instead of him always having to drive, although most men I have dated prefer to be the driver 75% of the time. But they have the option !


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## Ricebunnyx3 (Sep 1, 2010)

I never heard of this being a turn off...

I never had a license, and I probably never will. Even though where I live, I need one. And relying on my mom to get me to and from places doesn't work a lot of times because she feels like my needs aren't important so if I'm late to work it's whatever 'cause it's not her job. 

(I want a license though, I just can't drive, and I don't think I'll ever learn)

I think I would feel bad relying on my SO to pick me up and bring me places all the time. So I guess I can see how it'd be a turn off.


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## hypestyle (Nov 12, 2003)

I wish I lived in a public transit-heavy city; I'm sick of having to drive everywhere I want to go and spending X amount of money on gas weekly. folks who are in NY, Chicago, Boston, etc., how easy is it to get around for basic errands-- groceries, work, bill paying, etc.?


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## Cyclonic (Oct 25, 2012)

Absolutely not

I very much prefer to drive everywhere.


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