# How mentally healthy people view disorders (mostly about depression, bit about ADHD)



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm bored let's discuss this video.






It's funny because I remember stumbling on his videos a while ago (the guy this guy is talking about,) and I remember thinking. Nah son. *Leaves channel*

But his videos are probably reassuring for people with less extreme symptoms of depression or occasional depressed moods or whatever.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

People sure do hate science. Even when you provide proof that brains are different, and that environments are different, they deny it and try to turn it back into a lifestyle choice, or a delusion, or a way to get attention, etc.

I guess maybe it makes people feel better to believe they're superior because they weren't born with the same predispositions. Like they 'overcame' their depression or anxiety or whatever because they're just smarter and more responsible and worked harder at it and have superior morals. They think their own solutions will work for other people without knowing the first thing about those people or their circumstances.

It's a bit like giving someone directions to the store without knowing or caring that they live in a different city and that your directions are useless. Then blaming people when your directions don't work out for them.


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## Were (Oct 16, 2006)

Prince Ea's videos look lame and empty, it's depressing that they have so many views and likes.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

truant said:


> People sure do hate science. Even when you provide proof that brains are different, and that environments are different, they deny it and try to turn it back into a lifestyle choice, or a delusion, or a way to get attention, etc.
> 
> I guess maybe it makes people feel better to believe they're superior because they weren't born with the same predispositions. Like they 'overcame' their depression or anxiety or whatever because they're just smarter and more responsible and worked harder at it and have superior morals. They think their own solutions will work for other people without knowing the first thing about those people or their circumstances.
> 
> It's a bit like giving someone directions to the store without knowing or caring that they live in a different city and that your directions are useless. Then blaming people when your directions don't work out for them.


Yeah I also think some people's desire to solve problems overrides everything else, so when nothing they suggest works they get annoyed and sometimes externalise that onto the person they're trying to help. Or look for reasons it's not working like 'you're not trying hard enough.'


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Not understanding mental illness can work to our benefit. My wife didn't quite know that having a hot degree doesn't necessarily translate into promising career. It's part of the reason she could look past my striking social awkwardness. : p. She had no idea how difficult later on it was for me to get pass the job seeking process.
She would talk about I just need to do this or that without knowing that what she thought simple was difficult for me.


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

Prince Ea seems to use emotion to transmit messages and it works. So many people function on emotion only. So few function rationally.

Anyway, the video is great, at the end of the rap I was like:
Now, everybody from the 313
Put your mother*****ing hands up and follow me! If you know what I mean.

The guy destroyed Prince, with studies and sources.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

truant said:


> I guess maybe it makes people feel better to believe they're superior because they weren't born with the same predispositions. Like they 'overcame' their depression or anxiety or whatever because they're just smarter and more responsible and worked harder at it and have superior morals. They think their own solutions will work for other people without knowing the first thing about those people or their circumstances.


There is also a filthy naive dualism going on in the way people tend to think. We seem do _automatically_ believe that our will isn't dependent on our brains biology. So we might imagine ourselves in the position of the person with the problem and conclude "I wouldn't have that problem, so it's not a big deal", but of course we forget to imagine ourselves in the position of the person with the problem *with that persons brain*. That makes all of the difference, because if you do that, then of course by definition their problem would be precisely as severe for us as it is for them, since we would *be* them.

The only way that _couldn't_ be the case is if a part of the mind is outside of the brain.

Perhaps expecting people to think about things like this might be expecting a little too much though eh? Most folks aren't prepared to tie themselves up in mental knots with the gleeful delight I seem to take in it 

It should be possible for people to at least acknowledge the brain (and its conditioning) as having _some_ bearing on how people behave / struggle though, but even that seems out of the reach of most people. Of course, I can't actually blame them for that, because if I had their brains it would be out of my reach too.

:crying:


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## Rains (Jan 20, 2016)

One of the comments: ''You may be experiencing your skin burning off in flame now, but YOU are not on fire.﻿'' > Sums up video. 

I've never seen this Prince Ea channel, but it reminds me of Shots of Awe, which I haven't watched much of either (I can't stand it), but they both seem like motivational, inspirational channels. Some people have a talent for exploiting and manipulating people's emotions, and some people sadly, fall straight for it without questioning anything. I'm immune to this stuff. It just bounces right off me.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

springbreeze1 said:


> Not understanding mental illness can work to our benefit. My wife didn't quite know that having a hot degree doesn't necessarily translate into promising career. It's part of the reason she could look past my striking social awkwardness. : p. She had no idea how difficult later on it was for me to get pass the job seeking process.
> She would talk about I just need to do this or that without knowing that what she thought simple was difficult for me.


Is that really a benefit, though? I guess it's got its upsides. But the problem I ran into in my own relationships was that, because I talk a good game, my partners thought that I was smart enough to solve all my own problems (and theirs). They became progressively more and more disappointed when they saw that I wasn't getting anywhere with my life and eventually they left, feeling like they wasted their time.

And, tbh, I agree with them. When I think about my relationships now, all I feel is guilt. I feel like I conned those women into dating me, even though I wasn't doing it consciously. I know how damaged I am, but I let them delude themselves into thinking I could handle it, I deluded myself into thinking I could handle it, and I dated them all the same. What a waste.



splendidbob said:


> There is also a filthy naive dualism going on in the way people tend to think. We seem do _automatically_ believe that our will isn't dependent on our brains biology. So we might imagine ourselves in the position of the person with the problem and conclude "I wouldn't have that problem, so it's not a big deal", but of course we forget to imagine ourselves in the position of the person with the problem *with that persons brain*. That makes all of the difference, because if you do that, then of course by definition their problem would be precisely as severe for us as it is for them, since we would *be* them.


Yeah, that's definitely a problem. That dualism provides the justification behind imposing their projections on others.

Ime, the more you get to know someone and their problems, the less freedom you see in their actions. You don't need to dispel that dualism completely to begin to see that no problem, no matter how trivial it might seem from a distance, is really 'easy' to solve. The simplest changes can turn out to be impossible to implement because those behaviors are dependent on an extensive web of conditioning factors. "Calories in, calories out" is a good example. The mechanics are relatively simple (at a high level); I lost 50lbs just by paying attention to how many calories I was actually consuming and reducing them. But I was overweight because I wasn't paying attention to my diet and I was comfortable. My eating wasn't designed to compensate for anything; it wasn't related to my self-image or maintaining a specific role in an interpersonal dynamic, etc.; it was a product of indifference and laziness. There was no extensive web of conditioning factors related to my eating habits. If I were an ignorant person, I would take my own experience of losing weight and assume that it was just as easy for other people to do. But that assumes (above and beyond physiological differences) that my external circumstances, social network, self-identity, coping mechanism, etc., are all 'about the same'. Which is preposterous.

I do believe that there are ways to fix or compensate for many of the problems that people have. I have made effective changes in my own life by observing my behavior, understanding it as a system, and making changes at various points in that system, whether it's environmental, physical, cognitive, etc. But I never assume that any problem is easy to solve or 'just like mine'. I find it impossible to look at people as anything but unique, dynamic systems now. It requires a great deal of time and care to understand even the basics of how a system like a person works. People who make snap judgments about what people should do, and who say things like 'man up', 'think positive', etc., (people like this motivational speaker, for example), just seem like children to me now.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

truant said:


> Ime, the more you get to know someone and their problems, the less freedom you see in their actions. You don't need to dispel that dualism completely to begin to see that no problem, no matter how trivial it might seem from a distance, is really 'easy' to solve.


Yes indeed this does happen.

All that is necessary really is a thought or two about how other people are different and have had different circumstances and environments (cognitive empathy). I mean it is a really obvious and undeniable fact, but people tend not to do it (and I think your earlier post is spot on with one of the major reasons)- because its ego boosting. So if you have cognitive empathy you kinda have to give up the ego boosting - "I don't have that problem so I must be doing something right". Feel better abut yourself or have cognitive empathy? 



truant said:


> The simplest changes can turn out to be impossible to implement because those behaviors are dependent on an extensive web of conditioning factors.


Yup



truant said:


> "Calories in, calories out" is a good example. The mechanics are relatively simple (at a high level); I lost 50lbs just by paying attention to how many calories I was actually consuming and reducing them. But I was overweight because I wasn't paying attention to my diet and I was comfortable. My eating wasn't designed to compensate for anything; it wasn't related to my self-image or maintaining a specific role in an interpersonal dynamic, etc.; it was a product of indifference and laziness. There was no extensive web of conditioning factors related to my eating habits. If I were an ignorant person, I would take my own experience of losing weight and assume that it was just as easy for other people to do. But that assumes (above and beyond physiological differences) that my external circumstances, social network, self-identity, coping mechanism, etc., are all 'about the same'. Which is preposterous.


It's a great example. It's an example that indeed in myself (and my own weight loss) I have at times found easy, and other times basically impossible. There are problems I have which would be utterly trivial for others to fix, and others have problems I would find utterly trivial to fix.



truant said:


> I find it impossible to look at people as anything but unique, dynamic systems now. It requires a great deal of time and care to understand even the basics of how a system like a person works. People who make snap judgements about what people should do, and who say things like 'man up', 'think positive', etc., (people like this motivational speaker, for example), just seem like children to me now.


Indeed. I try to think about people the same way (even though I slip a lot of the time), and the thing is, it does take some work to be able to do that right? As earlier, you have to be willing to forgo the ego boost of judgement, and you have to be prepared to change how you instinctively think (or I do, anyway), and for me at least It isn't easy. Sometimes I catch myself on it and (I imagine) a lot of the time I don't.


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## In The Shade (Jun 26, 2016)

I cant watch the whole video right now, however there is nothing more that makes my blood boil than these youtube personalities that have this new age way of thinking, it's that attitude "IF I CAN DO IT, YOU CAN TOO. STOP COMPLAINING AND GET OFF YOUR ARSE."


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

I think an interesting way to view youtube is as "a competition to say things that people want to hear, with financial rewards". There isn't much (or any) incentive to deliver information that is truthful (other than to those individuals who want to hear stuff with some evidence backing it up)

Simplistic (and wrong) content that appeals to emotions a lot of people are going to want to watch (and believe).


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

This is kind of universally true for social media.

Those insanely popular people are usually those who say things most people want to hear (with the exception of some entertainers maybe, but then everyone wants to be entertained). Those who deliver the truth are more often hated.

standing up for truth is a lonely, unrewarding thing to do, most of the times at least.



splendidbob said:


> I think an interesting way to view youtube is as "a competition to say things that people want to hear, with financial rewards". There isn't much (or any) incentive to deliver information that is truthful (other than to those individuals who want to hear stuff with some evidence backing it up)
> 
> Simplistic (and wrong) content that appeals to emotions a lot of people are going to want to watch (and believe).


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

It's not really deception, it's marketing 

Everyone does that. If anything I think I'm not doing enough. Or I wouldn't be so lonely and universally unwanted, by men, women, and employers.

Most people instinctively tell lies or hold back truth for their own benefit. Everyone does that, but I don't, at least by far not as much. That's part of my problem. I would fact check my forum posts for numerical details, I hesitate on saying things I'm not sure even for casual talk. This greatly hinders my ability to interact with people, finding job and so on.



truant said:


> Is that really a benefit, though? I guess it's got its upsides. But the problem I ran into in my own relationships was that, because I talk a good game, my partners thought that I was smart enough to solve all my own problems (and theirs). They became progressively more and more disappointed when they saw that I wasn't getting anywhere with my life and eventually they left, feeling like they wasted their time.
> 
> And, tbh, I agree with them. When I think about my relationships now, all I feel is guilt. I feel like I conned those women into dating me, even though I wasn't doing it consciously. I know how damaged I am, but I let them delude themselves into thinking I could handle it, I deluded myself into thinking I could handle it, and I dated them all the same. What a waste.


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## bad baby (Jun 10, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> But his videos are probably reassuring for people with less extreme symptoms of depression or occasional depressed moods or whatever.


Yea. It's like that girl that lost her family in a freak accident, and listened to nickelback to lift herself out of the grief. I mean we all know their music sucks. But if it helped even one person through a rough time, then it has its uses.


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## Richard Pawgins (Jul 11, 2013)

people are ignorant, what else is new


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## TheOLDPrince (Jan 18, 2014)

I only watched a couple of minutes; those prince ea videos seem so deep and inspirational :haha


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

The original video by Prince Ea is the typical "say what people want to hear, instead of the truth" kind of thing.

Most people don't suffer from depression, so for them this video is totally relatable, completely true, has all the hallmarks of being positive and upbeat. People would go "aww this guy has so much love, he cares so much about people who suffer from depression. He's so positive, insightful ..." He could achieve this without knowing a thing about depression as a mental condition, just repeat the usual cliche of positiveness. 

And those who suffer from depression or truly know depression and try to refute him would be seen as being negative, bitter, or worse, hateful.

What Prince Ea does is the kind of thing you do to gain popularity on social media, not standing up for truth. Spreading the truth will only benefit a small proportion of the population, at the expense of failing to entertain the multitude.


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## Trooper (Apr 29, 2011)

springbreeze1 said:


> What Prince Ea does is the kind of thing you do to gain popularity on social media, not standing up for truth. Spreading the truth will only benefit a small proportion of the population, at the expense of failing to entertain the multitude.


And make money in the process...


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

I was actually _just_ ranting about something fairly similar to this in the Frustration section yesterday morning... This self-assured notion that A.) all mentally ill people can just "fix themselves" through sheer power of will if they _want it enough_ and B.) if they otherwise _"fail,"_ their "mentally healthy" counterparts can somehow do it _for_ them--pick up the slack on something they're clearly not clever or strong enough to have divined on their own... It's so isolating. And on a personal/social level, it's distressing.

Especially when, resentful and frustrated, _they_ give up.



Ai said:


> Man, the end of this past season of _You're the Worst_ got a little dark. And even though it ended on an up-note, I still can't help feeling a little rattled by it. It's just such a... tragic reflection of reality. Except for the bit where it resolves neatly in spite of itself. Basically, Gretchen (female lead), who has intermittent clinical depressive episodes, hits a spiral. She has a breakdown and freaks out on Jimmy (male lead) for incessantly assuming he can "fix her" despite her assurance he cannot. Her depression and self-sabotaging behavior worsens, she shuts everyone out, and eventually she settles into something of a detached catatonia all together.
> 
> This, of course, frustrates Jimmy even more, who still seems fairly attached to the idea that he can somehow save her from herself... Until he finally realizes once and for all that she's right. He can't. At this point, he embarks on his own spiral of self-pity and finds himself tempted by a new, exciting, attractive, and seemingly less "complicated" woman. Drunkenly likening dealing with Gretchen to "buying a lemon," he nearly cheats on her in the heat of the moment with hotty-mc-normal-chick (the only thing stopping them being someone knocking on the door or something, which brings mc-normal-chick to her senses.) He agrees to meet her at her family's cabin to "do it right," returns home to fight with Gretchen some more, and then informs her that he's leaving her. She tells him to go.
> 
> ...


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

lol, wow (not surprised though, I follow other YouTubers who have had this happen multiple times due to people disagreeing with opinion, but wow):


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## Carolyne (Sep 20, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> lol, wow (not surprised though, I follow other YouTubers who have had this happen multiple times due to people disagreeing with opinion, but wow):
> 
> ?rel=0" frameborder="0"
> allowfullscreen>


?rel=0" frameborder="0"
allowfullscreen>


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## SwtSurrender (Nov 24, 2014)

Mhmm that black guy is hot, I agree with him more. My depression comes and goes too so then it means I don't have depression - I have manic depression. Wow! I get it now! Wow! :sigh :blush :love 

Sounds like the main guy is taking everything too seriously but wanted to make a video just in case. :bah


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