# Is it really THAT hard to get in a relationship?



## baseballdude (May 23, 2010)

Reading through this forum, it seems that there are so many "rules" being established to get a girlfriend/boyfriend. For example, you need to be confident as a guy to get a girl interested in you, you can't be friends with a girl you like or they will just put you in the friend zone, etc.

Is it really that complicated to get into a relationship? Go out and see all the couples holding hands, did all of these people have to follow all of these "guidelines" to get in a relationship or does it just happen?

I think all of us look at having a girlfriend/boyfriend as an unattainable goal because of our SA. It really is not. Just look around, there are so many beautiful people that are not in relationships that would love to be in one. We always just count ourselves out before we even take a shot at talking to a girl/guy who we think is attractive.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Lesson one: dating typically has no rules. Lesson two: it takes two to tango.

SA doesn't stop people from having relationships, they themselves do and the one they are trying to be in a relationship does! Those are usually the only two factors! Man up, take responsibility for your actions and do your part or go nowhere (generally speaking). It takes two to make it happen obviously, so it ain't always your fault.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I think I bought so much into the Pickup, the TFL, and the Love Shy garbage, that I began to envision all women as these unattainable creatures, that you need to learn how to "act" before you can date.

I was a great actor as a kid, but have forgotten how to act. And I don't want to start now.

I just want some answers. I don't know how to approach girls, in order to ask them out for a date, and don't want to be called a creep. I just want love, damnit! Shouldn't be that hard to ask for.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

WintersTale said:


> I just want some answers. I don't know how to approach girls, in order to ask them out for a date, and don't want to be called a creep. I just want love, damnit! Shouldn't be that hard to ask for.


Once again, dating has no rules. You can do w/e it is to start conversation, ask for a date/number. I would avoid manipulation at all costs however.


----------



## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

It just happens. Sometimes you are friends first, sometimes even for months or a year, and sometimes you immediately start dating someone. The "friend zone" is made up by guys who became friends with a girl who didn't want to date them in the first place and then thought that being friends first was the reason when they never would have gotten a date no matter how it played out. Most women I know much prefer making friends first and then deciding if they want to date the person.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Akane said:


> It just happens. Sometimes you are friends first, sometimes even for months or a year, and sometimes you immediately start dating someone. The "friend zone" is made up by guys who became friends with a girl who didn't want to date them in the first place and then thought that being friends first was the reason when they never would have gotten a date no matter how it played out. Most women I know much prefer making friends first and then deciding if they want to date the person.


Great example! I think "it just happens" took me a while to grasp. I try to follow that guideline now instead of doing cold approaches at bars, etc. I really love your example of the "friend zone", and I think it is a great example.


----------



## theseshackles (Apr 23, 2011)

Anyone can get into a relationship effortlessly. But the ones that pose a challenge are quality relationships.

A lot of those couples you see walking around formed out of convenience or chance. To get a quality girl you have to know how to play your cards right. How often to talk to her, how much you should ignore her, when to call etc etc...

Reality of the matter is sometimes it will not be easy. If you're going after a girl with a huge friend base you are going to have to put up with jealous guy friends and sassy girl friends who may not approve. (_I speak from experience_)

Depends on what you're looking for.


----------



## watashi (Feb 6, 2008)

They were lucky to meet the right person at the right time. Of course, it's not always without effort. It takes courage to approach someone you're interested in and express that interest. People with SA usually try to avoid doing that and have a passive approach to dating waiting for people to like them and approach them. But what are the odds of that? You can't be passive in life, if you want something you have to go for it.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

watashi said:


> They were lucky to meet the right person at the right time. Of course, it's not always without effort. It takes courage to approach someone you're interested in and express that interest. People with SA usually try to avoid doing that and have a passive approach to dating waiting for people to like them and approach them. But what are the odds of that? You can't be passive in life, if you want something you have to go for it.


I hate to bring up the gender argument again, but women have a better chance with SA and relationships, than guys with SA.

Guys with SA or shyness don't get into relationships, usually.


----------



## watashi (Feb 6, 2008)

WintersTale said:


> I hate to bring up the gender argument again, but women have a better chance with SA and relationships, than guys with SA.
> 
> Guys with SA or shyness don't get into relationships, usually.


Not in my experience. I was passive basically my whole life and it got me nowhere. I'm still not in a relationship, but it certainly got better when I started showing interest in people myself. It's hard for anyone with SA. Right now my desire for a relationship is stronger than my fear of humiliating myself by asking someone out and getting rejected. You shouldn't give up on yourself.


----------



## mooncake (Jan 29, 2008)

I think it is difficult to get into a relationship when you have SA, and (without wishing to turn this into another gender war...), I do really feel for guys since I'm fairly certain that I'd never have the guts to ask someone out, and males are still generally the ones with the burden of that task resting on them. A lot of people forget, though, that there's a lot more to having a successful relationship than just meeting someone and asking/being asked out, (and being asked out, by the way, contrary to popular opinion, _isn't_ destined to happen automatically if you're a female! - there are plenty of women on this site who have never had relationships or been asked out before, and the lack of concern for their feelings sometimes amazes me). As things like low self-esteem and lack of confidence (not always) but often go hand in hand, relationships can be difficult, even after you've met someone and got past that initial stage. In many respects, that part is just the tip of the iceberg. I've seen a fair number of posts by people who don't seem to have too much trouble getting into relationships, but who really struggle with intimacy and actually keeping the relationship going.

In other respects, I've noticed that a lot of people on these sorts of sites are great fans of pigeon-holing people into very rigid stereotypes - 'nice guy', 'jerk' etc., and like you say, talking about the "rules" of dating whilst ignoring the fact that real life isn't exactly like a game of The Sims or something, where you have a set list of traits that people will scrutinise and use to make a snap judgement about you. People, dating and relationships are nowhere near that black and white. These things rarely actually happen according to some invisible set of rules, imo. There are _all_ sorts of couples out there.

Also, I'm not saying that I can't see _why_ some people have come to feel very negatively about dating, but it's really saddening to see just how negative some people's views are about the issue. Yeah, there are some shallow people out there who only desire some outgoing/cocky/rich/model-like person to be with, but a lot of people are just looking for someone they get on with, perhaps someone they share hobbies and interests with, and generally just someone to share life experiences with. There's a lot to be said for chemistry and clicking with someone, and you don't need to be some so-called "alpha male" (*vomits at the sight of that term*) for that to happen. Not everyone has some checklist in their head of attributes a potential partner absolutely must have in order to even be considered as dating-material, but that's the sort of impression you'd get from spending any significant amount of time around these parts. I think a lot of people don't give themselves enough credit for the attractive qualities that they have (and _everyone_ has some).

Where I think those of us with SA have the most difficulty is that it's typically going to very difficult to meet people when you have fairly severe SA and thus perhaps aren't getting out very much, or interacting with (m)any people. Obviously if you want any hope of having a relationship then you're going to have to get yourself out there in some way or other and around other people, else it'll never happen. And that's probably the trickiest part for most people. It's easy enough to suggest that people join clubs or walk around bookstores striking up conversations and so on, but clearly that's pretty ****ing hard to do if you've got social anxiety. So it can certainly be extremely difficult. But I refuse to believe that it's impossible for someone with SA to ever find themselves in a relationship.

It's a shame that some people have literally ruled themselves out from ever experiencing a relationship, though, because if they've fallen into that sort of mindset then it probably will be unlikely that they find someone. If you've settled in your mind that something's not going to happen then you'll likely shut off any opportunities or potential opportunities to the contrary. And then, well yes, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Once you've lost hope is when you're really in trouble.


----------



## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

mooncake said:


> I think it is difficult to get into a relationship when you have SA, and (without wishing to turn this into another gender war...), I do really feel for guys since I'm fairly certain that I'd never have the guts to ask someone out, and males are still generally the ones with the burden of that task resting on them. A lot of people forget, though, that there's a lot more to having a successful relationship than just meeting someone and asking/being asked out, (and being asked out, by the way, contrary to popular opinion, _isn't_ destined to happen automatically if you're a female! - there are plenty of women on this site who have never had relationships or been asked out before, and the lack of concern for their feelings sometimes amazes me). As things like low self-esteem and lack of confidence (not always) but often go hand in hand, relationships can be difficult, even after you've met someone and got past that initial stage. In many respects, that part is just the tip of the iceberg. I've seen a fair number of posts by people who don't seem to have too much trouble getting into relationships, but who really struggle with intimacy and actually keeping the relationship going.
> 
> In other respects, I've noticed that a lot of people on these sorts of sites are great fans of pigeon-holing people into very rigid stereotypes - 'nice guy', 'jerk' etc., and like you say, talking about the "rules" of dating whilst ignoring the fact that real life isn't exactly like a game of The Sims or something, where you have a set list of traits that people will scrutinise and use to make a snap judgement about you. People, dating and relationships are nowhere near that black and white. These things rarely actually happen according to some invisible set of rules, imo. There are _all_ sorts of couples out there.
> 
> ...


As far as I've been on the site, there has been no less than 3 active threads going on this gender war dating thing topic at one time. The ONLY time there wasn't any was when I first came to this site. I feel like that one thread that started where girls and guys asked what they wanted in their significant other sparked some guys' attentions because so many of the girls on this board had said they didn't want virgins or shy guys. That sparked attention by the MRAs and TFLs of the board, and at least as I've seen it, they've been on a crusade ever since... for three whole months since I've been watching... :um


----------



## Paragon (Apr 13, 2010)

theseshackles said:


> Anyone can get into a relationship effortlessly. But the ones that pose a challenge are quality relationships


Anyone, effortlessly? Really?


----------



## MojoCrunch (Mar 25, 2011)

I dunno, but from what I've seen on this forum there are quite a few people that want:
a) companionship, someone to talk to, spend time with, suck face with, and have someone to be with that will make them happy. To take their mind off of their anxiety
b) a trophy/robot

Or they either don't know what it is they want or are too nervous to even think about getting into a relationship for various reasons. But most people on this forum seem to want one of the two that I mentioned in their relationships.

I also think there are a lot of people on here that seem more into the fantasy of being in a relationship than actually being in one.


----------



## theseshackles (Apr 23, 2011)

Paragon said:


> Anyone, effortlessly? Really?


Yes. Randomly picking a mate. Like what people do for Prom. You want to go with someone so you find whoever is available.

I've seen a lot of people get into relationships just for the heck of it.


----------



## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

Akane said:


> Most women I know much prefer making friends first and then deciding if they want to date the person.


But what does that mean? I just don't get that. What do you do with someone as a "friend" that's any different than two people going on their first few dates? What signifies a transition between being a "friend" and a "date"? Is it the act of getting physical in whatever fashion?

I wouldn't associate with someone who insisted on terming our relationship a "friendship" and wouldn't agree that we were dating, if in fact we were getting together one on one and had a clear attraction to one another. What's so wrong and hard about saying that one is "dating" someone else, and what is the reasoning your friends have behind their tentative approach to dating?

If I were to meet a girl, whether in person or online, and ask her out, that's a date.


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

The mechanics of it seem simple enough. I see it in movies. But when I consider it for myself I can only think of the fear, alien-ness, weakness, hatred, etc. I can't because I am me and they are them. Same thing goes for friendships.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

theseshackles said:


> Yes. Randomly picking a mate. Like what people do for Prom. You want to go with someone so you find whoever is available.
> 
> I've seen a lot of people get into relationships just for the heck of it.


Some of us couldn't even get dates to prom, for many of the same reasons we can't get dates in the real world.

It isn't as easy as it's made out to be in this thread. For a date to happen, 2 people have to agree to a date, not just one.


----------



## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> Some of us couldn't even get dates to prom, for many of the same reasons we can't get dates in the real world.
> 
> It isn't as easy as it's made out to be in this thread. For a date to happen, 2 people have to agree to a date, not just one.


If it helps you, I couldn't get a date to prom either. I have a girlfriend now.


----------



## lanzman (Jun 14, 2004)

It's hard if you're picky. It can be easy to get into a relationship, but the difficulty is to MAINTAIN it. Keeping both parties interested and happy.


----------



## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

Yes, it is extremely hard to get into a relationship. Even if you forget about all the supposed rules, there is still this crippling anxiety problem to deal with, and that's the main issue. I've seen enough to know that all kinds of people get into relationships in all kinds of ways, but that doesn't make the job any easier. I can't even hold a conversation with a girl because of my intense anxiety, so what chance do I have of getting into a relationship?

The things you mentioned (rules about avoiding the friend zone, the need for confidence, etc.) are 'high level' rules, applicable to normal people. For SA people, the problem is much more fundamental. The rules don't even come into play at our level.


----------



## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

In these kinds of threads I rarely see people blame their parents for their relationship problems. For me 100% of my relationship problems come from my mother's me first attitude on dealing with her children. I wonder if anyone else here shares that problem. The love-shy stuff doesn't ring true with me, I'm not chasing after unattainable super models. I even think I actually love myself so I think I have that down. But being raised by my mother crippled my ability to connect.


----------



## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

If you can't talk to people and you can't make friends, you can't have a relationship. In that sense, SA does make it an unattainable goal.

I do agree that all the notions of rules are silly though, questionable generalizations that have nothing to do with any individual you meet. Personally I'd be automatically uninterested in anyone shallow/artificial enough to use a rulebook. However, until I figure out how to be myself around people it's all academic for me.


----------



## i just want luv (Feb 13, 2011)

does a wood chuck chuck wood?
seriously its something of a fight with myself and other setbacks.


----------



## lissa530 (Oct 29, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> I hate to bring up the gender argument again, but women have a better chance with SA and relationships, than guys with SA.
> 
> Guys with SA or shyness don't get into relationships, usually.


Sorry I disagree. I don't see how that makes a difference.


----------



## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Having self confidence makes a MASSIVE difference and unfortunately it's what a lot of people here lack.


----------



## sanspants08 (Oct 21, 2008)

Ospi said:


> Having self confidence makes a MASSIVE difference and unfortunately it's what a lot of people here lack.


Indeed :yes. Once your self-esteem is healthy, it's not that hard to get into a relationship--it's just a challenge to find a good partner.


----------



## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

It's not hard, it's really simple. 

Step 1: acquire interest in another person
Step 2: consistently make this person smile
Step 3: "hey, wanna go out some time?"

So when I say the process is simple- I actually mean that it's hellish if you have SA.


----------



## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

> But what does that mean? I just don't get that. What do you do with someone as a "friend" that's any different than two people going on their first few dates? What signifies a transition between being a "friend" and a "date"? Is it the act of getting physical in whatever fashion?


Your partner is the person you will spend most of your time with and rely on. Knowing that they can be a good friend is important. Many people don't want to just start dating someone when they have no idea what type of person they are. That can be a waste of time to later find out the person only ranks high enough to be mediocre friend or it could be a complete disaster if they turn out to be a bit insane. Then you have to go through all the break up stuff which if you try to be nice about it can take months cause guys don't get the hint. That's one reason why most people meet through friends or other acquaintances rather than date complete strangers no one knows. If you get to know them first and hang out as friends then dating is a lot less awkward, stressful, and even dangerous because you already know they aren't insane, overly clingy, and you have things in common to do and talk about. This is especially true with more and more people doing online dating. You want to get to know the guy a little before you agree that you are in a relationship. Most women I know though started seeing someone at a hobby, work, etc.. or they are a friend of a friend who came along a few times so they already made friends, had discussions to find common ground, and then decide to date. I know of very few cases where someone agreed to just go out with a random stranger that picked them up at the bar or whatever. In fact the only exception I have to that is a couple of my sister's friends who love to party and have sex with about anyone. They'll go on dates with random people from bars and parties which only lasts a couple months before they are on to someone else. Don't know any other women who will go out with a complete stranger without getting to know them first. Even if a woman does immediately go on a date with someone they just met if you prove to be a bad friend you are getting dumped eventually unless they have their own psychological problems. The women in my family seem to have no knowledge of healthy relationships and just cling to the first guy who comes along that they can order around even if he's a total jerk to everyone.

I don't think confidence is the main problem people with SA have. Plenty of people without confidence stay in relationships. I can't say they are all healthy relationships but they don't have 0 experience. I think the problem actually connects to the friend issue. What do people with SA do to meet the opposite gender? They don't have friends, many don't have work or avoid people at work, some don't even leave the house... You have to know people and meet people for someone of the opposite gender to get to know you enough to want to try dating. Just getting out and meeting people or being active on a dating site is probably the biggest thing to finding a date. Even getting stuck as friends with a member of the opposite sex is a good thing. A very good thing. They probably have friends of the same gender they can introduce you to that might turn in to a relationship. But everyone gets stuck on finding a relationship now, dating now and only dating, and they don't want to bother with friendships when friendship is the main way most people use to find a relationship. Either by directly dating a friend who ends up crushing on them or by their friend introducing them to someone else. Just getting dragged to a social event or hobby by a friend leads to potentially meeting someone who will date you.


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

watashi said:


> Not in my experience. I was passive basically my whole life and it got me nowhere. I'm still not in a relationship, but it certainly got better when I started showing interest in people myself. It's hard for anyone with SA. Right now my desire for a relationship is stronger than my fear of humiliating myself by asking someone out and getting rejected. You shouldn't give up on yourself.


I agree with him. Okay, not all women, but the majority. It's a fact of life. What's the answer when you get rejected 100% of the time? That hasn't happened to me (haha, YET!) but it's a possibility.


----------



## AliceSanKitchen (Aug 31, 2010)

Its not hard to get into a wrong relationship.

Its hard to get in a right relationship.


----------



## kesker (Mar 29, 2011)

My relationship issues center around friendship. I have found it, with the exception of maybe two people (my wife being one), almost impossible to expose myself to the degree necessary to attain a deep and lasting friendship. I don't think confidence is the issue. Some of the dearest people i know are not confident. They simply are lucky enough to have been given the message, or somehow figured it out on their own, that* not* being themselves is as difficult and painful for them as _being_ ourselves is for many of us. I hope everyone here all can find at least one good close relationship with another. I feel lucky to have two.


----------



## daniel1989 (Feb 14, 2011)

If your SA is bad enough it would be, I've gotten to the point where i can approach random strangers and have a conversation. SA gone? Almost.


----------



## shadowmask (Jun 22, 2009)

lanzman said:


> It's hard if you're picky. It can be easy to get into a relationship, but the difficulty is to MAINTAIN it. Keeping both parties interested and happy.


Totally agree.



stranger25 said:


> I agree with him. Okay, not all women, but the majority. It's a fact of life. What's the answer when you get rejected 100% of the time? That hasn't happened to me (haha, YET!) but it's a possibility.


You keep trying. What do you mean it hasn't happened to you yet? Have you never asked a girl out? If the first one rejects you, are you just going to say "welp, 0% chance of getting a date for me" and give up?


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Akane said:


> I don't think confidence is the main problem people with SA have. Plenty of people without confidence stay in relationships. I can't say they are all healthy relationships but they don't have 0 experience. I think the problem actually connects to the friend issue. What do people with SA do to meet the opposite gender? They don't have friends, many don't have work or avoid people at work, some don't even leave the house... You have to know people and meet people for someone of the opposite gender to get to know you enough to want to try dating. Just getting out and meeting people or being active on a dating site is probably the biggest thing to finding a date. Even getting stuck as friends with a member of the opposite sex is a good thing. A very good thing. They probably have friends of the same gender they can introduce you to that might turn in to a relationship. But everyone gets stuck on finding a relationship now, dating now and only dating, and they don't want to bother with friendships when friendship is the main way most people use to find a relationship. Either by directly dating a friend who ends up crushing on them or by their friend introducing them to someone else. Just getting dragged to a social event or hobby by a friend leads to potentially meeting someone who will date you.


This has always been a problem for me. I'm genuinely a nice open person and I feel like I can make friends easy, but I often will lose interest or become inpatient as if something should happen right away like meeting a girlfriend or w/e. Because of this I realize it is near pointless to have friends simply for other connections. You need friends who are friends and you can have fun with, even if those people you don't get to see often. But then again, every time my interest drop more and more when I find myself thinking "all I want to do is go home and I'll more fun there alone". It is like built in mechanism or natural thing. I've always been that way regardless of SA or not, which I do not have anymore.

I guess I've been stuck forever on the line that enjoys friendships long enough to meet new people. When there is no one at work then I think online and when there is no one online then I think friends and when there is that boredom issue I get I go back to square one. You may say that online is easy to meet someone, but as a guy it seems very difficult. Some guys seem to get success but the majority of guys I know including me don't get that much responses if any, period, and it goes beyond words we type or even how we look. There seems to be simply an advantage for women on that site, so I look elsewhere. Really, my only hope is through friends or work, and work is often a bad place, so that leaves me with only one choice. I refuse to do cold approaches anymore because it is way too much work and just way too far left field. That stuff can become depressing and exhausting if you strive for it the same way you strive for most goals.

Maybe I'm simply too impatient? But then again I often get bored as well. This is why just focusing on having fun with lif ein general seems like such a good strategy, but you can't always just "have fun with life" and expect things to happen. Sometimes it evolves a goal or a strategy. You can't have fun at a friend's house playing Call of Duty for years and expect to meet anyone, for example. I could try and meet people through friends, but even that is more difficult than I think some picture, but really, what other reasonable option is there when online sucks and cold approaches suck? I'm the type to go after what I want but I guess I'm also impatient. Who wants to spend their time doing something they don't enjoy anyway? "Find friends you enjoy hanging out with"....ok, said simple enough and most likely that's what I'll do. I almost have to.

Also, I'd like to point out that I think talking to someone online for a month before you meet them is a waste of time, especially since you never seen them in person or got a in-person vibe with them. That is very important.


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

LALoner said:


> In these kinds of threads I rarely see people blame their parents for their relationship problems. For me 100% of my relationship problems come from my mother's me first attitude on dealing with her children. I wonder if anyone else here shares that problem. The love-shy stuff doesn't ring true with me, I'm not chasing after unattainable super models. I even think I actually love myself so I think I have that down. But being raised by my mother crippled my ability to connect.


:yes My parents screwed me up with their emotional neglect - neglect of themselves as well as myself I should add. They aren't bad people.



Hoth said:


> If you can't talk to people and you can't make friends, you can't have a relationship. In that sense, SA does make it an unattainable goal.


Thats how I feel about the whole sorry business. I don't know how to overcome it, I'm afraid I never will


----------



## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

melodymuffin said:


> Its not hard to get into a wrong relationship.
> 
> Its hard to get in a right relationship.


So true.

The thing about dating, is that sometimes when people get caught up in trying too hard, they end up dating the wrong person, or start feeling like "failures" if they don't find someone within the time frame that they establish in their own minds.

As we all know, having SA does make it difficult for a lot of people to get into relationships. Many here are love shy or have intimacy issues. I think that leads to a lot of people being lonely and jaded.

But if there's one bit of wisdom that I've learned over time, it's that there are no hard and fast rules out there when it comes to life or dating. I think it's human nature to try and find patterns, and look for ways to quantify things that we don't understand. Many here think they don't understand dating, so they cling to these rules that they believe exist...rules about "alpha males", "PUAs" and various dating games they think they have to play. Most of which they seem to have gleaned from bad movies and TV shows, but very little of that is truly applicable in real life.

The thing is, all kinds of people get into relationships. Even shy men and women. There are shy men and women on this site who are in relationships right now.

It is harder for us SAers, but not impossible. I think people need to stop over analyzing the opposite sex, and just live their lives. Work on feeling good about themselves and bettering themselves. Focus on beating SA.

Relationships happen when the time is right, not necessarily when we think they need to happen.


----------



## luctus (Mar 31, 2011)

Despite having been in four previous "relationships", I still find it really hard to open up to people in this way. It's not all about SA for me, though. Most of it is, even though I have been able to find relationships in the past.
From my perspective, I think hell really can be other people. Being "in a relationship" really isn't the goal for me anymore. There isn't anything inherently satisfying about having someone, it's remarkably important just how well the two of you can combine your energies and actually fit into each other's lives. 
I say, start looking for friendships first, if you're having trouble with that. The longing is understandable, but I have often sprung upon the first person that seemed available (i.e. willing to constantly reassure me that they don't hate me) and interesting, not putting much thought into whether anything but madness would result.
Having had relationships hasn't made me any happier, that's for sure. It's quite important to make sure it's a relationship that you want and that will have a positive effect on you.

"Misery loves company" and all...


----------



## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Yes, it is that hard. I speak from experience. I've seen girls lose interest with the smallest of "wrong" actions.

It's kinda like laying a trap for a unicorn. You are attempting to trap this mythical being who "loves you for you". The trap has to be beautiful, enticing and inviting. You make one mistake, step on a twig, reveal your real hunter self behind the beautiful trap too soon, and the unicorn will bolt.


----------



## Josh90 (Aug 22, 2008)

For me it's almost impossible.

It's like I can't break through to that next stage of interaction and get into that normal stage where I can talk to someone on the same level, it's just not happening. The only person in the world I can really connect is my mother.


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

shadowmask said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> You keep trying. What do you mean it hasn't happened to you yet? Have you never asked a girl out? If the first one rejects you, are you just going to say "welp, 0% chance of getting a date for me" and give up?


I never asked any girl out. That it what I meant.


----------



## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

stranger25 said:


> I never asked any girl out. That it what I meant.


So, you speak of being rejected 100% of the time but you've never asked a girl out? So you've not been rejected 100% of the time.


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

It still feels that way because I've never had female friends and no girlfriends, interest from, dates, kisses, virgin, etc.


----------



## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

You have to work with this on an individual level.

If it's on the broad, generalised concept area along the lines of "girls only like this, that or the other type of guy and I'm not that guy..." then nothing is going to change.

Bring it down to the individual level and we've got a chance. 

Lots of metaphors being used by people talking about being stuck, stuck in the past, laying traps, breaking through stuff etc. 

That's why I talk about working with metaphors and language. Not because it's any kind of quick fix but because that's how people construct and interpret things in their world and if you work with those metaphors and patterns of language then you develop a rapport which helps people make changes. 

If you assume that being a shy guy won't get you a date because girls don't like shy guys, you'll find evidence to support that and stop yourself from making changes. Every time you feel shy you'll tell a story about that feeling that says you're unattractive and not good enough. And that locks things in as they are.

I've come along way in my own personal journey. But a few new guys joined our social group recently and I made the decision to assume I wasn't good enough and that I was unattractive because of the arrival of these guys. None of that was true but I thought and acted like it was. You explain it to the guys themselves and to others in the social group and they look at you with puzzled faces. Indeed, the guys were like: "we'd love it if you connected with us more". 

It might be hard and difficult or it might be easy. Either way, selling yourself short or giving power to perceived limitations doesn't make sense.


----------



## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

stranger25 said:


> It still feels that way because I've never had female friends and no girlfriends, interest from, dates, kisses, virgin, etc.


Well, are not the lack of kisses, sex, dates a direct result of not asking a girl out?

And the female friends, did you introduce yourself to any women?


----------



## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

"Akane", thanks for your response, and I can understand where you're coming from. However, you can only give the female perspective, which is very much concerned with safety and cautiousness (thus putting a guy through a "trial" phase to find out if he has any defects, for lack of a better word). I think it's a rare guy who will hang around too long with a woman whom he wants to date until she all of a sudden decides that they can officially start dating. That's giving women way too much power, and it's unfair.

The type of relationship one is looking for is also a factor. If your goal is to find a long-term partner then yes, you're bound to be more choosy. But if you only want a relatively short-term fling, why does your date have to be someone you know well or who has been vouched for by a mutual friend? Maybe that's why I reacted negatively to what you initially said about being friends first, because a short-term relationship is what I'm after. The women you mention who go on dates with someone they just met might simply have different goals, and that's not a bad thing.


----------



## Alek (Jun 11, 2011)

LALoner said:


> In these kinds of threads I rarely see people blame their parents for their relationship problems. For me 100% of my relationship problems come from my mother's me first attitude on dealing with her children. I wonder if anyone else here shares that problem. The love-shy stuff doesn't ring true with me, I'm not chasing after unattainable super models. I even think I actually love myself so I think I have that down. But being raised by my mother crippled my ability to connect.


Same here. I once told my mother "Are you happy now? You are famous, recognized, have PHds and all this status and recognition, but you'll never have grand-kids. Are you happy now?"


----------



## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

The difference between me and my male friends who are dating: they work hard at it. They constantly put themselves out there, whether it be online dating, going to social events etc.. The thing is, it's not stressful for them or anxiety producing, like it is with me. It's something they enjoy, and seems to come natural. 

One of my friends (and no offence to him) has an awkward personality, is not the greatest looking guy (actually most people find him rather strange looking), and is usually near broke. But, he has no problems dating, and has had many long term girlfriends. If he is lonely, he actively does something about it.

Dating is not a passive activity; you have to focus you energies on it.


----------



## Alek (Jun 11, 2011)

I think stranger25 has every right to say he feels rejected, even though he's never asked a woman out.

Why? Because we allow women to do it. Women on this forum say how much they've been rejected because they flirted with a man and he didn't ask them out.

Do we have a double-standard here? Do we tell single SA women that they have no right to "whine" or feel rejected until they've asked out a 100 men?

Either we define rejection *only* as having asked and gotten a no, or we define it as "never been asked out", but you can't use one definition in some cases, and the other in another case.

We have to use the same definition for both men and women.


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

That's why I call it being silently rejected. It's like you're not rejected like face to face or it's not said to you. Like girls don't tell you "no" but at the same time deep down you know it's just how it is.

So since I have no experience, no interaction, no connections, no acknowledgement from them, in real life, I'm basically silently rejected.


----------



## Alek (Jun 11, 2011)

stranger25 said:


> That's why I call it being silently rejected. It's like you're not rejected like face to face or it's not said to you. Like girls don't tell you "no" but at the same time deep down you know it's just how it is.
> 
> So since I have no experience, no interaction, no connections, no acknowledgement from them, in real life, I'm basically silently rejected.


I'm fine either way  I just believe we have to apply the same standard for both men and women. If we acknowledge passive/silent rejection for women, we need to acknowledge it for men too.

If we tell men they deserve their single status for daring to not ask women out, we need to do the same for women "you deserve to be single because you don't ask out enough men".


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

I mean if girls don't even want to be my friend in real life, or approach me, say hello, or talk to me, why should I believe that I can get a girlfriend. I've just never connected to any girls before on any level before in real life and that hurts me. If a guy is dating challenged or an older virgin and dateless and he tells people about that it's politically incorrect and a taboo subject.


----------



## Alek (Jun 11, 2011)

I believe you have every right to feel rejected. I don't believe you need to stay in that feeling, you need to outgrow it and move on...

But these people who deny you feeling passive rejection are not helping you, and just want to man-shame you into a traditional male role, where you're supposed to not be allowed to feel rejected or feel any feelings until you ask out 3 quadrillion women.

Again, its ok to feel the feeling, accept it and transcend it, and then do the work it takes to overcome SA and start meeting women.


----------



## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

Johnny_Genome said:


> The difference between me and my male friends who are dating: they work hard at it. They constantly put themselves out there, whether it be online dating, going to social events etc.. The thing is, it's not stressful for them or anxiety producing, like it is with me. It's something they enjoy, and seems to come natural.


This is a good point to make, since it is probably the reason for many people's issues. It's easy to sit back and say "Oh, I can't do this, because __________. But if you have never tried, or haven't tried as hard as you probably need to to get the desired results, how can you really know your value?


----------



## purplefruit (Jan 11, 2011)

I'd agree that the rules are not as complicated as we all make it out to be. It _can't_ be. Or else there'd be a total population crisis in the world...hell there wouldn't even be a world as we know it, the human race would have died out long ago.

But at the same time , it's hard to read someone sitting there and tell us, me, that it's not _that_ hard. There are just too many things that come into play with the varying severity of social anxiety, and other various secondary disorders present in SASers. Many of us at rock-bottom lack the underlying self-esteem level that the average person possesses, that would allow us to execute basic actions such as expressing our feelings to an attractive individual (or more importantly walking down the same hallway toward that person without veering off), embracing being 'hooked up' or going on a blind date (for those fortunate enough to have had the opportunity), we may even be afraid to attract attention to ourselves (appearance) when we go out, or we may be too afraid to even go out period because we feel like we'd screw the whole thing up, or that we'd be judged by people with normal social skills. And the list goes on and on.

One issue is that we've created too many rules and have dissected the process of Relationships way too much. In some cases,, we've concocted elaborate false preconceived notions about the opposite (or same) sex which likely limit our ability to interact with those individuals without having prejudiced ideas about their behaviours. But the main problem IMO is that some of us, who haven't had successful (or any) relationships, simply cannot get the gumption to initiate anything. We are stopped in our tracks by those stupid, uncontrollable thoughts in our brains telling us we're not good enough. And frankly, like I think I read someone post upthread...it takes two to tango. If you're in a conversation with someone attractive and you degenerate into 'duhhh', like many of us have done, the other person isn't going to be like 'Wow, you're awesome, let's go on a date'. Or 'Let's go on another date'. If you're unable to engage the other person, nothing's going to happen.

Anyway...We (SAS) need to build enough confidence to do basic things or else it really is _that hard_.


----------



## Skttrbrain (Jun 17, 2011)

It's because girls are taught to choose and not to chase.. Women who ask guys out seem desperate .. Its too bad!


----------



## OpiodArmor (Jun 15, 2011)

Alek said:


> I think stranger25 has every right to say he feels rejected, even though he's never asked a woman out.
> 
> Why? Because we allow women to do it. Women on this forum say how much they've been rejected because they flirted with a man and he didn't ask them out.
> 
> ...


Why? Are men and women the same?

What don't you people get? Men and women get treated DIFFERENTLY! Society expects different things from both sexes, it ALWAYS HAS AND PROBABLY ALWAYS WILL!

I don't understand. It's just so childish to complain how all these poor shy (Aka unconfident in themselves 99.9% of the time) men should be treated like poor shy women. Really? Are women treated as equals in the work place? At the beach? In the mall?

No matter how much you hate it it's the truth, why are you trying to blind yourself and others to this FACT. Ya'll cannot change it by *****ing. You can only change yourselves and ACCEPT that fact.

By living with this faulty logic your never going to get out of the situation ya'll clearly hate. Why do you put yourselves through it???


----------



## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

I've found that not looking for a relationship makes a big difference. That way you end up being comfortable with each other and opening up in ways you otherwise would not have. I dislike the 'rules' people follow when they're intentionally out to get a date...doesn't impress me or most women out there. It works for a quick fling maybe, but not actual relationships.


----------



## IcemanKilmer (Feb 20, 2011)

joinmartin said:


> And the female friends, did you introduce yourself to any women?


See, this is unfair to say to a guy. Why does the guy _always_ have to introduce himself to women?

That's my complaint about most women in today's society, they ignore shy guys. Unless the guy is a 9 or a 10 on a 1-10 scale, he gets the silent treatment from most women unless he has average or above social status. Even worse, they make fun of lower social status guys often as well.

Like, I get that you ask him why he hasn't introduced himself to women, part of the blame goes on Stranger and I.

But, if you are going to ask if he introduced himself to women, then why don't you ask him if any women introduced themselves to him? What ever happened to this gender equality we are supposed to have socially?

Why does the man always get the blame because he didn't initiate the conversation? Why can't the woman initiate the conversation first? And if she doesn't initiate the conversation, why can't she get the blame for the communication failure?

It's just another case of male-directed shaming tactics. Whether it's his fault or not is irrelevant to the shaming tactic user. All they care about is finding some way to blame the man for his dating struggles.


----------



## Revenwyn (Apr 11, 2011)

The only reason I didn't date my best friend from jr. high and high school is that we were homeschooled and dating wasn't allowed. 

He has since said that if we hadn't lost contact (his parents forced him to quit contacting me by keeping us three states apart and kicking him off the internet) he would have married me. 

Being friends with them first is not always a sign you'll be in the "friends zone".


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

IcemanKilmer said:


> See, this is unfair to say to a guy. Why does the guy _always_ have to introduce himself to women?
> 
> That's my complaint about most women in today's society, they ignore shy guys. Unless the guy is a 9 or a 10 on a 1-10 scale, he gets the silent treatment from most women unless he has average or above social status. Even worse, they make fun of lower social status guys often as well.
> 
> ...


Well yeah, I never had a friend of the opposite sex yet in my life.


----------



## IcemanKilmer (Feb 20, 2011)

stranger25 said:


> Well yeah, I never had a friend of the opposite sex yet in my life.


And it's not all your fault. People need to stop placing full blame on you.

If you were a woman, you wouldn't even be having this issue. It's this sick world we live in where people ignore the shy guy, then blame him for every social struggle he has.


----------



## Think_For_Yourself (Dec 7, 2010)

no.


----------



## IcemanKilmer (Feb 20, 2011)

stopitidontlikeit said:


> Women get ignored unless they are good looking too.


Look around. Average women are hot according to the desperate society of men out there nowadays.

You'll find that even unattractive women have a bunch of options in the dating world.

The difference between dating in the genders is ridiculous.


----------



## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

I've seen some ugly *** fat *** looking dudes and chicks have nice looking gfs/bfs and be happy together. Some people like that look I guess?

My point, ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, can be in a relationship.
Doesn't mean they're superior.. could be the most ****ty argumentative coupling in history.. but they're together and people who don't know the back story automatically assume "Awwwww theyre so cute". 
RARELY are relationships even worth the time.
Most times there is not a damn thing to be jealous about let me tell you lol!


----------



## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

stopitidontlikeit said:


> Women get ignored unless they are good looking too.


One of the biggest lies in history! Dating sites can prove this statement wrong so quickly!



IcemanKilmer said:


> And it's not all your fault. People need to stop placing full blame on you.
> 
> If you were a woman, you wouldn't even be having this issue. It's this sick world we live in where people ignore the shy guy, then blame him for every social struggle he has.


Yeah, notice how if a woman can't find a guy, everyone will feel sorry and say men are all perverts but if a guy admits he can't find a date everyone is against him. It's such a weird matrix we have setup in this society.


----------



## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

It's extremely hard to get into a relationship. At least for me... I try to ask people out for coffee but its incredibly hard to strike up their interest in ME.

I can't comment on the male vs. female issue. I go after girls meself.


----------



## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

mooncake said:


> ...So it can certainly be extremely difficult. But I refuse to believe that it's impossible for someone with SA to ever find themselves in a relationship.
> 
> It's a shame that some people have literally ruled themselves out from ever experiencing a relationship, though, because if they've fallen into that sort of mindset then it probably will be unlikely that they find someone.


It is pretty hard to imagine, so I don't blame you guys, but at the same time to say it's "easy". I can just see some people's eyes popping out. I know you guys meant no offense, but I have seen cases on here. They would scare any of us. To say that it's even extremely hard would not *begin *to describe what some of these guys/gals go through. Try taking a Liebiwitz Social Anxiety test and *intentionally* try to get your score to 100+ or 110+ on that test. Then look at how you had to *get* to 110. You have to throw everything but the kitchen sink at it to go that high. (Been a long while but I think the highest is 120) For people like this? Meeting and interacting...jeez just *getting there*. The odds of winning the lottery are better. It is brutal and my heart goes out to people in that situation. When you're in that far that deep, it's hard not to say never because you really don't know. It's not easy for them by any stretch. But having acknowledged them, I agree that a lot of people rule themselves out when they should not.



lissa530 said:


> Sorry I disagree. I don't see how that [gender] makes a difference.





Alek said:


> I think stranger25 has every right to say he feels rejected, even though he's never asked a woman out.
> 
> Why? Because we allow women to do it. Women on this forum say how much they've been rejected because they flirted with a man and he didn't ask them out.
> 
> ...


I don't think we do have to and in fact I don't think we *can*. Expectations, "rules", "roles" are different for each gender. If you want to complain about the unfairness of that, fine, but it doesn't make it any less true. It's getting "fairer" arguably. But it's still different for each gender.

So success or failure is measured with different metrics; one definition for men and another for women. Unfair, but true. What of the unfortunate situation where a man has made no approaches? In the case of the man not having made any approaches, any advances, then bemoaning the man not getting any success is like bemoaning a football defensive line not getting any passing yardage. Of course they don't get any.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

kathy903 said:


> Most times there is not a damn thing to be jealous about let me tell you lol!


I agree with this. The only step up would pu-tang, and even then that can be a pain int he *** sometimes I take it.


----------



## AK32 (Sep 2, 2010)

I really don't think it would be as hard if it wern't for the constant anxiety I feel around the opposite sex. That definately makes it harder for me.


----------



## nuncie (May 25, 2009)

I don't think its necessarily hard to get in a relationship, but i do think its hard to maintain that relationship. In my experience my SA and lack of confidence has really affected my relationship poorly.


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

I find it very difficult and I do try. I guess I'm too much of a loser for most girls.


----------



## Hot Chocolate (Sep 29, 2008)

IcemanKilmer said:


> Look around. Average women are hot according to the desperate society of men out there nowadays.
> 
> You'll find that even unattractive women have a bunch of options in the dating world.
> 
> The difference between dating in the genders is ridiculous.


You know, sometimes I wish what you said is true.

But man, I don't get the dicks either.


----------



## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

i feel the same way , I find it very difficult as well.


----------



## Dan iel (Feb 13, 2011)

I got into a relationship somehow. I really don't have enough experience to know if its hard to get into one. But I do think to get a special one and a decent one, it will take time.

I've met some really nice girls but I don't really have the connection with them or they have a boyfriend 

Sometimes though it's just nice to be friends. It's worth chatting to women just to make friends with them, you don't need a relationship anyway


----------



## RyanAdams (Aug 15, 2008)

For me, yes.


----------



## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

I honestly don't believe it is, unless you're not making any effort at it at all.

Yes, you actually have to put yourself out there to start a relationship, crazy, I know, right?


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I wouldn't say putting yourself out there is always the solution to your problem. If you have severe social anxiety, for example, you're not going to come across as datable to many women. 

That has always been my problem. I come across as creepy, just because I'm anxious.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

On some level, joinmartin, I do believe I deserve love. But it just doesn't seem like I am in a place that would make me get it - I am not rich, I am jobless, I live with my mom, I am a late college student, I have no relationship experience, I am average looking. All of which makes me not very attractive to the opposite sex.

If I suddenly won the lottery, and was able to live on my own, get a great job, and actually somehow beat my social anxiety, maybe I'd be able to get a girl?


----------



## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> On some level, joinmartin, I do believe I deserve love. But it just doesn't seem like I am in a place that would make me get it - I am not rich, I am jobless, I live with my mom, I am a late college student, I have no relationship experience, I am average looking. All of which makes me not very attractive to the opposite sex.
> 
> If I suddenly won the lottery, and was able to live on my own, get a great job, and actually somehow beat my social anxiety, maybe I'd be able to get a girl?


But the opposite sex do not think with one mind. You'd meet individual women not all women. So why make guesses about how you're apparently not very attractive to the opposite sex because you lack various things.

You know something, I'm pretty sure I'm average looking too. Quite a lot of guys are and they date. Quite a lot of guys are jobless, live with parents and are not rich and they date.

Indeed, I've never met a woman who cared about money in the way some people seem to think they do. And money only ever has the power to amplify what is already there. It can't buy you happiness or security.

And I know for a fact some girls will and do date guys who have social phobia and social anxiety. Heck, you can even see that on this forum.

That part of you/level that lets you know you deserve love...what happens when you bring that into your life more and more?

You want to deal with and sort out this anxiety thing? Well, a heck of a lot of resources that can help you do that are in the same place as that part/level where you believe you deserve love.


----------



## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

WintersTale said:


> On some level, joinmartin, I do believe I deserve love. But it just doesn't seem like I am in a place that would make me get it - I am not rich, I am jobless, I live with my mom, I am a late college student, I have no relationship experience, I am average looking. All of which makes me not very attractive to the opposite sex.
> 
> If I suddenly won the lottery, and was able to live on my own, get a great job, and actually somehow beat my social anxiety, maybe I'd be able to get a girl?


 someone needs a hug. :hug


----------



## reno316 (Jun 13, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> But the opposite sex do not think with one mind. You'd meet individual women not all women. So why make guesses about how you're apparently not very attractive to the opposite sex because you lack various things.
> 
> *You know something, I'm pretty sure I'm average looking too.* Quite a lot of guys are and they date. Quite a lot of guys are jobless, live with parents and are not rich and they date.
> 
> ...


the way you talk about your history with women.(they approach you on the street, bars etc.) You're probably not as average looking as you think you are. Looks definitely helps.


----------



## IcemanKilmer (Feb 20, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> I wouldn't say putting yourself out there is always the solution to your problem. If you have severe social anxiety, for example, you're not going to come across as datable to many women.
> 
> That has always been my problem. I come across as creepy, just because I'm anxious.


Putting yourself out there is the only solution, unless online dating women agree to meet you somewhere, which is still going out.

Maybe you are right, maybe you come across as creepy to certain women, I know I do. JoinMartin has a point, though, when he says that not all women will look at you as a creep. With all the women out there, there are bound to be women that will like you for who you are.

The reason I never get chicks is because I never put myself out there (In the last 4 years). Yeah, it sucked when I did go out because a lot of women don't like the shyness, but I did get a g/f and I made out with a couple other women. I'm shy, but those women weren't shallow, and they didn't care about my shyness very much. They wanted to get to know the real me.

There are women out there like that, but you have to go out and find them. They won't come to your house.


----------



## listener123 (May 31, 2011)

One thing we're not talking about much here is moving past "getting into" a relationship to being in one. Believe me, I've struggled with girls - plenty of rejection over the years - but I have had times when girls were interested in me... and I wasn't ready for it. Didn't know how to handle it. 

Before that point, I thought my problem was being unappealing to the girls I like. But now I realize the problem is a deeper one - I have a deep, deep fear of intimacy (physical and emotional) even though I long for it. So a girl showing interest is usually an excuse for me to find a reason not to pursue anything - to avoid it.

It's almost more upsetting to realize this than to just think I keep striking out. With the latter, seems like I just need lightning to strike once; but with the former, I realize how much needs to change inside ME.

For what its worth, I can tell from reading these forums that all of you are bright, thoughtful people, worthy of love. I think we all love each other on here, actually.


----------



## jamesd (Feb 17, 2011)

I think it's harder to get out of a relationship than form one. Once you get comfortable with someone it's hard to cut ties even if it's the best for everyone involved.


----------



## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

> Is it really THAT hard to get in a relationship?


Yes, it is.

Also, please don't ignore those of us women who are interested in women and would have to approach them just like a man would. Add to that the stress of wondering if a woman is even the right sexual orientation, or in my case, falling for a girl who is decidedly the wrong orientation.


----------



## rockyraccoon (Dec 13, 2010)

IcedOver said:


> But what does that mean? I just don't get that. What do you do with someone as a "friend" that's any different than two people going on their first few dates? What signifies a transition between being a "friend" and a "date"? Is it the act of getting physical in whatever fashion?


I would really like to know how two people transition from dating to a relationship. Is it after a certain amount of dates? Is it after articulating specific feelings for one another? A combination of both? Or something else? I don't get it either. What exactly is a relationship between two people? When do you know when the relationship actually started? And why do people stay in bad relationships?


----------



## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I don't get it either, and that's why I'd like to avoid "dating" as much as possible. Spending time with a friend I like and want to be more than friends with? yes. Dating? Hell no.


----------



## AK32 (Sep 2, 2010)

I don't think the relationship is the hard part, for me it's always been meeting guys that I would actually want a realationship with. The sad part is when I do meet a guy I'm into I'm to shy to interact with him so I'm screwed either way.


----------



## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

Peter Attis said:


> I honestly don't believe it is, unless you're not making any effort at it at all.
> 
> Yes, you actually have to put yourself out there to start a relationship, crazy, I know, right?


 I always put my self out there and it doesnt really work . I have bad luck , period


----------



## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

tea111red said:


> It is hard to get into a relationship even if people show interest if you are not able to look at the person for very long to also indicate mutual interest. When someone shows interest, I consciously make an effort to try not to look interested, even though I may be. I don't know how to stop doing this. I suspect that I do this due to a phobia of relationships.
> 
> I also have the hardest time maintaining eye contact with someone I find attractive (and sometimes not attracted to because I am also not wanting to attract those who I don't feel I'd be compatible with). I can only do it if I'm wearing sunglasses (though it may not be obvious to others). I don't like that vulnerable feeling w/o them. Emotional feelings are too overwhelming and uncomfortable for me.


Its somewhat hard for me to make contact. I dont grab interests of the ones i want. I put myself out there and get nothing.


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

Get a gf/bf is complicated. Everything would be going great then bam he just disappears. Usually what happens to me. So I give up until something happens.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Once you understand the mechanics of how to put yourself in a position to find one and what to do then it becomes much easier. Until then it's much more illusive.


----------



## Josh90 (Aug 22, 2008)

I don't even have any male friends, imagine how hard it would be to get a girlfriend.


----------



## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

Yes, if you don't try.


----------



## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

Absolutely, if you're unattractive. Looks are simply the first thing everyone sees. :|


----------



## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

tbyrfan said:


> Absolutely, if you're unattractive. Looks are simply the first thing everyone sees. :|


What do you find unattractive?


----------



## slushie87 (Jul 28, 2011)

Akane said:


> It just happens. Sometimes you are friends first, sometimes even for months or a year, and sometimes you immediately start dating someone. The "friend zone" is made up by guys who became friends with a girl who didn't want to date them in the first place and then thought that being friends first was the reason when they never would have gotten a date no matter how it played out. Most women I know much prefer making friends first and then deciding if they want to date the person.





lanzman said:


> It's hard if you're picky. It can be easy to get into a relationship, but the difficulty is to MAINTAIN it. Keeping both parties interested and happy.


 ^ exactly..too people nowadays forget that it takes awhile to actually get to know someone and instead think that after a few weeks or even less of meeting and talking/ texting for hours that a serious loving  romantic relationship is supposed to start and it's all smooth sailing after that.


----------



## RUFB2327 (Sep 28, 2008)

It's easy if you put yourself out there enough, but isn't that one of our many problems with SA? I feel as though it is almost impossible for me because of this reason alone.


----------



## mrbojangles (Oct 8, 2009)

I've tried, but I can't keep any girls attention for an extended period of time. I think it's total non sense when people say "just be yourself" because I've tried that and it never works. Whenever I act like my true self I just end up getting laughed at or ignored. I don't really hold grudges against anyone that rejects me though. I just wish someone would stick with me for a while and not run off at the first sign of something even remotely better. I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong, and what I could do to fix it.


----------



## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

rdrr said:


> What do you find unattractive?


Why is that important? lol. It's hard to say. My taste is kind of random when it comes to looks. I've been attracted to men that most people think are attractive, and men that most people think are unattractive.


----------



## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

tbyrfan said:


> Why is that important? lol. It's hard to say. My taste is kind of random when it comes to looks. I've been attracted to men that most people think are attractive, and men that most people think are unattractive.


I just wonder what people find unattractive, is all. If looks are the first thing everyone sees, and if a person is not attractive.... then it's very hard for them to get in a relationship? So you are saying that despite anything else, if you are unattractive to most then you have no chance at a relationship?


----------



## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

rdrr said:


> I just wonder what people find unattractive, is all. If looks are the first thing everyone sees, and if a person is not attractive.... then it's very hard for them to get in a relationship? So you are saying that despite anything else, if you are unattractive to most then you have no chance at a relationship?


That's the way it seems. I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't care at all about physical appearance. That's just the way humans are, so if somebody's generally unattractive, it's just far more difficult for them to obtain a relationship.


----------



## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

tbyrfan said:


> That's the way it seems. I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't care at all about physical appearance. That's just the way humans are, so if somebody's generally unattractive, it's just far more difficult for them to obtain a relationship.


Everyone cares about physical appearance but it's not the be-all-end-all. Attractiveness is subjective but still has some definitives. It just seems to me that people are getting more and more shallow and this is becoming accepted behaviour.


----------



## Chris16 (Nov 1, 2010)

tbyrfan said:


> That's the way it seems. I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't care at all about physical appearance. That's just the way humans are, so if somebody's generally unattractive, it's just far more difficult for them to obtain a relationship.


I don't know jack about love or relationships or etc, but I've always figured that the less "generally attractive" you are, the smaller your group of attracted people will be. I think the important thing to remember, though, is that having a smaller group of attracted people does not mean the people in that group love you less. A generally unattractive person can still be the most beautiful person on the planet to someone else. It doesn't necessarily mean that their partner will like them _despite_ their looks.

The psychologist in the link below also says that when we like someone, they look better to us.

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_bloom_the_origins_of_pleasure.html


----------



## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

rdrr said:


> Everyone cares about physical appearance but it's not the be-all-end-all. Attractiveness is subjective but still has some definitives. It just seems to me that people are getting more and more shallow and this is becoming accepted behaviour.


My thoughts exactly. It's a shame that some people don't get to know somebody's personality before deciding whether or not they are fit for a relationship.


----------



## theCARS1979 (Apr 26, 2010)

meganmila said:


> Get a gf/bf is complicated. Everything would be going great then bam he just disappears. Usually what happens to me. So I give up until something happens.


Dont give up , you have years to go , and your a female , theyll talk to you. Just don t get involved with a bad apple


----------

