# help: I need the power of phenibut back



## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

seriously. I think I used a little too much - twice a week for a long time and this weekend mixed it with piracetam and alcohol and theanine and niacinamide. I need the magic back. anything to upregulate gaba-b? how long should I abstain. that drug was my SAVIOR for social anxiety. although i could only use it twice a week - those were the two best days of the week guaranteed.


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## kirribilli (Mar 9, 2010)

What is the great drug you are talking about -- phenilbut?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

kirribilli said:


> What is the great drug you are talking about -- phenilbut?


Phenibut is a dietary supplement thought to act as a GABA -B receptor agonist.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> seriously. I think I used a little too much - twice a week for a long time and this weekend mixed it with piracetam and alcohol and theanine and niacinamide. I need the magic back. anything to upregulate gaba-b? how long should I abstain. that drug was my SAVIOR for social anxiety. although i could only use it twice a week - those were the two best days of the week guaranteed.


Phenibut is known for its rapid tolerance, i'm afraid you cant doo much instead of waiting a long time...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Dronez,
It seems that GABAB agonists are of big benefit for you (GHB, phenibut) You may wonna look into baclofen.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Dronez,
> It seems that GABAB agonists are of big benefit for you (GHB, phenibut) You may wonna look into baclofen.


Isn't nardil unselective to GABA?, so it would theoretically act on GABA-A and GABA-B receptors.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jim_morrison said:


> Isn't nardil unselective to GABA?, so it would theoretically act on GABA-A and GABA-B receptors.


It inhibits the reuptake of GABA if i'm correct, but i dont see what this has to do with this thread? Using Nardil as a phenibut substitute seems a bit overkill.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> It inhibits the reuptake of GABA if i'm correct, but i dont see what this has to do with this thread? Using Nardil as a phenibut substitute seems a bit overkill.


It inhibits it's breakdown actually through GABA-transaminase inhibition (rather than reuptake inhibition). And I wasn't suggesting that he use nardil as a phenibut substitute, just raising the possiblity that GABA-B increase may be yet another way in which nardil helps SA.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

wouldnt I have a tolerance to baclofen for similar reasons though?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> wouldnt I have a tolerance to baclofen for similar reasons though?


May be cross tolerant, i dont know, but tolerance wouldnt shoot up as fast as with phenibut.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

do you still think memantine can aid phenibut tolerance? at this point of me taking the memantine? (day 4). does glutamate usually mess with gabab-
/?????


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> do you still think memantine can aid phenibut tolerance? at this point of me taking the memantine? (day 4). does glutamate usually mess with gabab-
> /?????


I wouldn take any phenibut now, you need to let your tolerance go DOWN first, take a break from it.

Ive read about someone saying memantine stopped he's phenibut tolerance and NMDA antagonists appear to slow tolerance to gabaergic drugs (ethanol, benzodiazepines).
Youll have to experiment BUT first stop taking phenibut for a while.
Memantine is no super antidote wich will suddenly reverse all tolerance's, you still need breaks and it WONT reverse tolerance.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

do you think there is cross tolerance between gbl and phenibut? like, do you think my gbl usage has downregulated my gabab receptors to the point where phenibut isnt working as well? knowwhatimsayin?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

dronez said:


> do you think there is cross tolerance between gbl and phenibut? like, do you think my gbl usage has downregulated my gabab receptors to the point where phenibut isnt working as well? knowwhatimsayin?


Well, phenibut is known for its rapid tolerance, so it could be just that. Altough they can be cross tolerant.
If i was you id try to get adjusted on memantine and take a break from both.

You only use this stuff on occasion, try to get baclofen, its not neurotoxic like GHB and doesnt have the rapid tolerance like phenibut.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

crap. I'm getting no effect whatsoever from pheni, and my gbl dose has gotten to be too high and euphoria is reducing. time for a looooong break from gaba-b drugs. seriously I can't stress it enough: use phenibut and probably gbl too sparingly. has anyone taken a long break and regained their pheni high? I'm thinking about not touching the stuff for months.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

has anyone ever stopped phenibut after gaining tolerance and waited a looong time and been able to bring the magic back? This was like my 1-2x a week wonderdrug. Almost as good as xtc and made my social inhibitions go away. Now it just gives me a headache when I take it (though I must note that I did use GBL 1-2 days a week for about 6 moths - haven't done any GBL in at least 3 months or so).

I tried baclofen but it is nowhere near as phenibut + piracetam or pheni + caffeine. Someone on mind and muscle said tolerance never goes away, but how is this possible? He didnt have any evidence to back it up so I'm taking that with a grain of salt.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

dronez said:


> has anyone ever stopped phenibut after gaining tolerance and waited a looong time and been able to bring the magic back? This was like my 1-2x a week wonderdrug. Almost as good as xtc and made my social inhibitions go away. Now it just gives me a headache when I take it (though I must note that I did use GBL 1-2 days a week for about 6 moths - haven't done any GBL in at least 3 months or so).
> 
> I tried baclofen but it is nowhere near as phenibut + piracetam or pheni + caffeine. Someone on mind and muscle said tolerance never goes away, but how is this possible? He didnt have any evidence to back it up so I'm taking that with a grain of salt.


Some of the tolerance may never go away, not all of it IMO.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

Dr House said:


> Some of the tolerance may never go away, not all of it IMO.


based on what? I can take any other drug and abuse it, build tolerance and if I wait long enough and take it again, I get effects. I guess its not as great as the first time but its anywhere from 80% up the same.

is there any research available to explain this theory of phenibut's long-lasting tolerance?


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

Guide 4 Dummies said:


> Baclofen


is baclofen doing anything for you in the way of working against SA?
I took it and it felt like the phenibut hangover. What dose do you take? I took around 40mg and it made me somewhat less anxious but not much, and it just made my body feel weird, and then I got a bad hangover when it wore off.


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## feelalone (May 1, 2010)

Hi dronez, let me know, you gained tolerance even if you took pheni only once a week??


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

feelalone said:


> Hi dronez, let me know, you gained tolerance even if you took pheni only once a week??


Many people do, phenibut and PEA are the most retarded drugs out of history.


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## feelalone (May 1, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Many people do, phenibut and PEA are the most retarded drugs out of history.


Hi, sorry for my english, but i didn't understand what do you mean for most retarded drugs, could you explain with other words?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

feelalone said:


> Hi, sorry for my english, but i didn't understand what do you mean for most retarded drugs, could you explain with other words?


They are completely useless stupid drugs, they can give you some initial good effects but phenibut has major tolerance problems that it even makes GHB scared, and PEA is dangerous garbage that stops working after 30 minutes.


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## feelalone (May 1, 2010)

Yet there are many experiences on the forums that speak very well of phenibut. 
And I think it's very strange if you can take tolerance even if you take only once a week. I think I have to try at least.


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## User5 (Jun 22, 2010)

Phenibut is def not for everyday use. Have you tried aniracetam? Its a stronger version of piracetam and i've heard people say it does wonders with little tolerance issues. (Like all racetams, it should be taken with choline without exception)


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

feelalone said:


> *Yet there are many experiences on the forums that speak very well of phenibut. *
> And I think it's very strange if you can take tolerance even if you take only once a week. I think I have to try at least.


Not suprising since it gives a good high initially.


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## broseph (Jan 18, 2010)

How long did you take phenibut before you started noticing a tolerance? Does piracetam do anything social anxiety wise? Or does it potentiate the phenibut somehow?


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

broseph said:


> How long did you take phenibut before you started noticing a tolerance? Does piracetam do anything social anxiety wise? Or does it potentiate the phenibut somehow?


it took me a while. I was still getting effects 6 months after using phenibut 1-2 times a week. Usually 2 times a week. Piracetam doesnt really have any benefit for SA. It is more of a study/smart drug - but it also seems to potentiate the effects of many drugs - especially phenibut. My tolerance to phenibut really started when I started using GBL - and I think that may be the culprit since it downregulates GABA-B receptors.

I really really hope long term abstinence from GBL and Phenibut will bring the power of Phen back. I plan on reducing my GBL use to only 4 times a year. I'm gonna treat it like I would treat MDMA - using very very sporadically. MDMA can wreak havoc if it is not used with long long breaks in between.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

in the meantime, I'm using SAM-e, nicotine, theanine, 5-htp (occasionally) and inositol. They aren't a cure for SA but I have noticed some mitigation. 

I do wanna give picamillon a go again - in which I would replace it with the theanine.

SAM-e kind of reminds me a bit of amphetamines, in that it can increase anxiety in some ways and reduce it in others.

And the nicotine is for my OCD - dunno if it helps for SA or not, but it reduces some of my obsessing over what I said, what Im going to say - it stops my mind from rehashing over and over some minor event.


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## MBL (Oct 5, 2010)

Hi

Phenibut sure does sound like it has possibilities. I cannot find a source for it though (I live in Canada). I used to use GHB/GBL, something similar and legal would be a great thing to have access to.

Does Memantine interact with any other drugs? What's the effects like? I was always interested in NMDA drugs and their possibilities. Anybody want to give me a brief run down of it or give me a link?

If anybody can give me info where to get phenibut in Canada (or info on the NMDA drugs) please message me or post.

NMDA and GABA drugs probably hold a lot of potential for anxiety problems, I'd like to check these out. 

I get prescribed a very small amount of benzos and need something as a secondary treatment, probably PRN type usage.

thx


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## broseph (Jan 18, 2010)

MBL, you can probably buy some phenibut from a US supplier. I don't think there'll be much trouble getting them to ship it to you. I get mine from bodybuilding.com. I doubt customs would actually search your package, most agents probably wouldn't even know what it is.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

so is it possible that I could reset my tolerance to phenibut after a long abstinence? Any supps that could help? piracetam (without the phen maybe?)

also I still havent heard if anyone has had SA reducing effects from baclofen


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## MBL (Oct 5, 2010)

*Anger @ customs!*

BROSEPH:

I heard that it's not available to be sold in Canada as a supplement, only a research chemical. This is because they say it's not a natural substance (stupid laws).

I've heard of it being seized by customs.

I got in a lot of hot water for importing something before, so I'm pretty paranoid about taking this risk, but sure am tempted.

I spoke to a guy at a supplement shop and he said he imported some for personal usage. But I think I'm on a customs "black list". Every single package I get is messed up by customs (even clothing) and they charge me like 20 dollars for their fee to open and mess with my mail.

I'm very interested in Memantine also but I can only find (very) expensive places that require prescription.

I found a couple places in Canada that sell Relax-All, which contains Phenibut, but with a low dose and mixed with a whole bunch of other crap, apparently this is the only legal way for it to be sold in Canada as a supplement which is a sign of how silly Canadian law regarding health products are.

So I still have no idea about how to approach this situation. I think I will call customs and ask if I can buy some as a "research chemical only, not for human consumption"...

GRRRR

*-MBL*


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## humility (Oct 2, 2010)

Phenibut is a one time thing. Do your research. You'll never get the same "high" as the initial. Work on yourself. Phenibut is not the solution. Let it go.


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## MBL (Oct 5, 2010)

*Phenibut dose*

I would use 1 - 2 grams a maximum of 2 times a week. I don't see it as any kind of solution, more of a PLAN B, when I don't want to take my benzos. Benzos don't work well for me at normal prescribed dosages, it's as if I was BORN with a tolerance to them... :|

*-MBL*


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## JPars (Apr 18, 2009)

dronez said:


> has anyone ever stopped phenibut after gaining tolerance and waited a looong time and been able to bring the magic back? This was like my 1-2x a week wonderdrug. Almost as good as xtc and made my social inhibitions go away. Now it just gives me a headache when I take it (though I must note that I did use GBL 1-2 days a week for about 6 moths - haven't done any GBL in at least 3 months or so).
> 
> I tried baclofen but it is nowhere near as phenibut + piracetam or pheni + caffeine. Someone on mind and muscle said tolerance never goes away, but how is this possible? He didnt have any evidence to back it up so I'm taking that with a grain of salt.


May I ask what effect you got of adding piracetam to phenibut? I've never tried the two together.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

dronez said:


> seriously. I think I used a little too much - twice a week for a long time and this weekend mixed it with piracetam and alcohol and theanine and niacinamide. I need the magic back. anything to upregulate gaba-b? how long should I abstain. that drug was my SAVIOR for social anxiety. although i could only use it twice a week - those were the two best days of the week guaranteed.


Nothing is going to upregulate it the exact way it needs to be. Plain and simple you need to take breaks..


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

JPars said:


> May I ask what effect you got of adding piracetam to phenibut? I've never tried the two together.


it's recommended to do so on many forums


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

dronez said:


> it's recommended to do so on many forums


The effect thereof being?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

zodiac55 said:


> The effect thereof being?


Reverses tolerance wich comes back later anyway, not a real solution.


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## Dub16 (Feb 28, 2010)

When you say the "high" you get from Phenibut, do you mean the calming affect? Or does it actually make some people feel a bit high/drunk?

I've been talking it for a month now, and it just sorta takes a slight edge off anxiety. Maybe a 20% reduction. But nothin spectacular or anything, for me anyway.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Dub16 said:


> When you say the "high" you get from Phenibut, do you mean the calming affect? Or does it actually make some people feel a bit high/drunk?
> 
> I've been talking it for a month now, and it just sorta takes a slight edge off anxiety. Maybe a 20% reduction. But nothin spectacular or anything, for me anyway.


I do feel a slight high that lasts all day. (2000mg)

I tend to notice the high from phenibut more once I mix it with alcohol but it's still pretty subtle.


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## PerfectO (Apr 11, 2011)

I've never noticed any kind of "high" with Phenibut. I found myself to be more talkative and social around people after taking it, but there was never a perceived high or anything. Although, the most I ever took was 1.5gm. Perhaps the highs come at higher doses...


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## Phil P (Jul 20, 2009)

Has anybody tried using Glutamine and vitamin b6, which raise gaba levels, along with Phenibut?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I've been taking phenibut daily for about a year and a half. for anxiety and insomnia. I've never really had a problem with tolerance. When I first started using it I was probably using 2-3 grams per day, separated into two doses per day. Now I only use 1g in the evening so I can sleep. I've never noticed a tolerance with either phenibut or benzos. My brain chemistry is pretty different though I think. When I first started receiving treatment benzos had no effect on me until I got up to a really high dose. For example when I was first prescribed xanax doses of .25 mg, .5 mg, 1 mg had no effect, once I hit 2-3 mg it was effective. Same with Diazepam and Lorazepam. Clonazepapam has never been effective for me. I've never had to titrate up my dosages due to tolerance. It just seems like I haven't built a tolerance even after nearly two years.

As to the op the only way I know of to reset the therapeutic benefits of phenibut for you without continuing to raise your dosage is to take a decent break from using it. 2-4 weeks if you've been a long time user. I've regularly read the recommendation that in order to avoid phenibut tolerance it shouldn't be taken for more than three days in a row without at least a 4 day break. Or if taking it regularly not more than a couple times a week. Basically you have to NOT take it for for a greater number of days than you have been taking it regularly. Or at least take a break of a few weeks if you have a tolerance due to long term use.

I think that the idea of never be able to achieve an equal "high" from a drug as the first time you used it is bogus. Of course the magic of a completely new experience is gone, but with a long enough break, you'll achieve the same physiological results, probably not the same emotional results of that first time though.

I've heard that if SSRI's are used for a while, then stopped and started again, they will be less effective the second time around. SSRI's have never been effective for me so I have no comment on that matter other than that an SSRI pushing Psychiatrist told me that this is untrue.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

It's been about 2 years since using phenibut or gbl (which both have a cross-tolerance). I really want to try phenibut again, with the hope that I am no longer tolerant, but I am scared because I don't want to be disappointed (phenibut helped my an hedonic and social anxiety greatly but wasn't as nasty as gbl and I'd like to think it could help me again one day).

I think my phenibut tolerance happened because of my gbl use at the time in early 2010. I never used phenibut more than two or three times a week - but towards the end I would take gbl 4 or 5 nights a week and phenibut 1 or 2 (this went on for 2 months maybe). Before trying gbl, I never had any phenibut tolerance. 

Lately I have been taking quercetin and huperzine A (an nmda antagonist) to possibly clear up any remaining tolerance. I want to take memntine but I don't want to deal with brain fog. I ordered Wellbutrin but it hasn't arrived (there are some posters on various sites saying wellbutrin may help with phenibut tolerance).

Finally, I wonder if tolerance to phenibut is metabolic (meaning liver enzymes break it down faster, and if it is, could I possibly have less of those enzymes two years after no phenibut? Is there anything to get rid of metabolic tolerance to substances? I know quercetin does something with a liver enzyme but I don't know if it's relevant.

I don't know for sure, but I hope it's possible to have long lasting tolerance w/o it being permanent. The last time I took phenibut (2 years ago), I just got a weird headache and a weird (bad) feeling in my muscles.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

^^^ You can see that I posted above. But a follow-up. I had used phenibut daily for almost two years and I haven't used it since early June. I used it several times in the past two weeks. 1.5 g has a very strong and noticeable effect. So of course tolerance goes away. 

also to Donez: no tolerance to Phenibut is not metabolic as you call it. Only a tiny amount of phenibut is even metabolized. >80% of it is not metabolized and is excreted renally. 

I highly doubt that Bupropion has any effect on the tolerance of phenibut and I know that NMDA antagonists, such as DXM and Memantine, do not. Tolerance is a fact of life, I'd rater not have to take a dump daily but I do have to, a fact of life yo.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

istayhome,

Have you ever used/abused gbl?

I'm just worried that my GABA-b receptors might still be downregulated - that is why I've been on the hunt for anything that could get them back to normal if they are out of whack. I guess it's possible that they aren't downregulated.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

After taking phenibut for a few months, I took too much one time.. instantly it stopped working after. Hell, from the cocktails of drugs I've tried over the last 4 years... p-but is the only one that stopped working instantly. I think it also damaged my brain.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I have used gbl, not since 2006 though. If you haven't used any Gaba-b agonists in two years, it is highly unlikely that they're still down-regulated. Do you feel like your gaba-b receptors are down regulated? like constant insomnia, tension, etc.? Like I said after two years of daily use, Phenibut is like new for me after six months of abstinence. I never any kind of withdrawals or anything when I quit it, I don't think that my gaba-b receptor ever became down-regulated.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

Distinctly,

this makes me wonder what is going on with phenibut. Why is it unique in terms of rapid, almost instant tolerance? How big of a dose did you take?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> After taking phenibut for a few months, I took too much one time.. instantly it stopped working after. Hell, from the cocktails of drugs I've tried over the last 4 years... p-but is the only one that stopped working instantly. I think it also damaged my brain.


how much did you take, why do you think it gave you permanent brain damage?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

dronez said:


> Distinctly,,
> 
> this makes me wonder what is going on with phenibut. Why is it unique in terms of rapid, almost instant tolerance? How big of a dose did you take?


for me it has never been at all unique, once again... everyone is different.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

dronez said:


> Distinctly,
> 
> this makes me wonder what is going on with phenibut. Why is it unique in terms of rapid, almost instant tolerance? How big of a dose did you take?


Very sketchy on my memory, but I think it was 2000mg. My bottle said to take 1-2 500mg capsules a day for a maximum of two weeks. I never took more than that, until that one evening I thought I'd try doubling it. I felt sooo glued to my bed the next morning/afternoon... It has absolutely no effect on me now, ever since. It's very strange to me too.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

istayhome said:


> how much did you take, why do you think it gave you permanent brain damage?


Well it's hard to tell if its just aging or brain damage. I feel slower, higher brain functions refuse to activate, less strenuous tasks seem harder... it could be all in my mind and just a side effect of the many drugs I've taken over the years.

The one thing to note is that, without a doubt, phenibut stopped working, instantly.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

Also, the night I happened to take too much happened over 2 years ago. I tried some phenibut this past summer and it still did absolutely nothing.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

istayhome said:


> I have used gbl, not since 2006 though


Did you use it several times a week like I did? Did you use it around the same time you were using phenibut?

And Distinctly,
What dose did you take this past summer?

I wonder how phenibut would cause such a tolerance.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

^ Just 500mg, wasn't going to push it. Before trying the larger dose, 500mg was great.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't know if this interests anyone, but all benzo's don't effect me... even Z-drugs like Ambien just don't work anymore.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Distinctly Amiguous: That's really weird that it stopped working for you, however there is almost no possibility that it caused you any brain damage

dronez: I only used GBL once or twice, I didn't use it with phenibut.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> I don't know if this interests anyone, but all benzo's don't effect me... even Z-drugs like Ambien just don't work anymore.


Huh, you are the second person I know of who is like this. That's weird, Does alcohol effect you?


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

istayhome said:


> Huh, you are the second person I know of who is like this. That's weird, Does alcohol effect you?


It does, but not likeit used to. It seems to make me sick and complacent, rather than the intense joyful euphoria I remember feeling.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

Ambien and benzos definitely work on me. Alcohol isn't the same as it used to be though.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> It does, but not likeit used to. It seems to make me sick and complacent, rather than the intense joyful euphoria I remember feeling.


Yeah, I used to love to drink but that's how I feel now so I almost never drink. However for me I think that the cause of this is psychological; I don't want to drink so whenever I do it just mskes me feel crappy.

I just asked and Note that it is strange because alcohol triggers some of the same autoreceptors as both benzos and phenibut. However Alcohol is a pretty dirt drug, it hits a tone of autoreceptors, not just the specific ones Which BZD's and phen. are designed to touch.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

istayhome said:


> Do you feel like your gaba-b receptors are down regulated? like constant insomnia, tension, etc.?


I don't have insomnia. I can go to sleep with ease if I get up early enough in the morning. I don't really have any tension that I know of. If I do, it's subtle or I'm not interpreting it as such.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

I do wonder though why toleranceto phen seems to come on really strongly, almost instantly for me and others who post on various forums. And once it comes on - it seems to stick around for a long time and the $1 mil question that I'm here wondering is whether or not the tolerance can ever go away. If anyone can tell me the mechanism by which this (almost instant, long-lasting semi? permanent tolerance) happens I will be very thankful. Other drugs don't seem to have as instant or as long lasting tolerance, so phenibut must be doing something that other drugs don't. 

I'm also wondering whether "permanent" tolerance that people refer to online when talking about phenibut or even benzo tolerance is permanent or just very long-lasting (several years). I don't know much about drug tolerance and I can't really find a good resource online that really breaks it down thoroughly, especially in terms of semi-permanent vs. permanent tolerance (if it exists) vs. regular tolerance. 

I took some ashwagandha (which is a gabab agonist) the other day and while it did have some anti-anxiety effects like it used to, it didn't feel as clean as it did before my gbl/phenibut debacle. It's almost like it gave me a mild headache at first and some relaxation after a while. I'm hoping I didn't screw my gabab system or increase my glutamate production permanently (though I don't know if this is even possible from gbl use). I didn't really abuse gbl like I've read about some people doing. I did gbl from December 2009 through maybe April or May of 2010 - and most of that time was only once or twice a week usage. It only got to be 3 or 4 days (once or twice each day) towards the last month and a half or two. 

The Phenibut stopped working sometime before I ultimately quit the gbl. I would always take phenibut with piracetam. I wonder if it would make a difference if I tried it with aniracetam next time. 

I'm so frustrated right now because I loved phenibut, yet I can't bring myself to try it again with a proper dosing (2g or so). I just don't want that nasty muscular pain and headache feeling where euphoria once was. And I don't like Baclofen as a substitute - it lasts like 45 minutes max for me and isn't anywhere near as powerful in terms of social anxiety in my opinion. I also felt kinda harsh once Baclofen wore off, unlike the afterglow of phen. 

I'm also interested in Bacopa because there is a study finding it upregulates gaba-a receptors. I wonder if it upregulates gaba-b too. I don't know of any studies that say one way or the other.

I don't know about the wellbutrin but I did read two accounts online of it reversing phenibut tolerance. By what mechanism I don't know.

I also wonder if taking a couple of small doses of phenibut with aniracetam before I take a 2g+ dose would make a difference. I also wonder if I need to start out with a 2.5 or 3g dose. I just can't really deal with muscle pain, headache or increased anxiety (which is what phenibut was like for me the last time 2 years ago) and all that right now. I have to take care of my (almost) 4 month old baby girl and that's stressful enough without dealing with some kind of nasty harsh feeling.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

some guy from a drugs forum said this:

"Tolerance to phenibut NEVER disappears. You can stop using it for months, try it once more and you'll still need a bigger dose than the first few times. I remember 1.5g would make me so sick I'd be in bed with my head spinning. Now I can take 2.5g and barely feel that **** even if I've been clean off it for a long time." I guess it seems like it never goes away to him. 

I really wish people wouldn't through around the term "never" like that without any sort of scientific study to back it up. It's frustrating because I'm sure that poster doesn't know with absolute certainty that it NEVER goes down - only that it doesn't seem to go down even after long periods. I mean, has that guy taken a 5 year break and tried it? Has he tried any methods of reducing tolerance?

Another guy on a muscle forum: " I only used it 5-6 times before I developed a permanent tolerance to it. I can now take up to 15 grams (and yes, I took a 6-8 month from using it) and only get muscle aches and anorgasmia." - Ok that's worrisome. Maybe this guy's problem is taking 15 grams of the stuff. Who knows. 

Another on the same forum: "Pretty much the same deal with MDMA, except you seem to get nil tolerance back in years."......except my mdma tolerance has seemed to go way down in the past even after taking it in greater quantities than I ever should have. But still, if there is "nil tolerance back in years"...then that is just really strange to me and would have to mean that phen causes some sort of permanent change. However, I haven't seen any evidence for permanent change and other people seem to be able to take it year after year, if they do it only once or twice a week, without dealing with this tolerance of which nil goes away. 

Oh and does anyone know if exercise can do anything in the way of reversing/reducing drug tolerance? I can't find much about it online.

Also, I wonder if it would make a difference if I tried a different brand than the one I used to do.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I don't know man, like I said after two years of daily use for anxiety relief (using 2g for a while, then 1g per day) I quit, and now six months later I have zero tolerance to it. 1.5 g has a very noticeable effect. So from my personal experience I disagree with a lot of the above, I did nothing special to lose the tolerance, in fact I was using benzos the entire time, but not drinking or using any other gaba-b agonists that I know of.


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## dronez (Dec 23, 2008)

istayhome said:


> I don't know man, like I said after two years of daily use for anxiety relief (using 2g for a while, then 1g per day) I quit, and now six months later I have zero tolerance to it.


Did you get any tolerance towards the end of the 2 years daily use such that 2g wasn't doing it for you?


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

no man, I never gained a tolerance really, I don't gain a tolerance with benzos either. It's weird.


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## Spag (Jan 18, 2013)

New user here, just wanted to share my experience with Phenibut.

I have been suffering with social anxiety/depression for the better part of ten years now (I am a 30-year-old male) and have tried countless prescription drugs that have had little to no effect. That said, I feel pretty hopeless in my situation. For the last eight years, I have pretty much abused alcohol and became dependent on it because the circumstances surrounding my brain have lead me to make many stupid choices in my attempts to cope with life.

That said, I recently quit drinking. It just isn't enjoyable anymore and I am concerned not only about the permanent damage that it has potentially done to my brain/body, but the damage it will no doubt do to me if I continue using it. This lead me to researching healthy alternatives for use in dealing with social anxiety, which is how I stumbled upon Phenibut. It seemed too good to be true, but I wanted to give it a try, and these are my results thus far:

I received my first shipment two weeks ago in the form of the powder Phenibut from Liftmode.

Day 1: Tried the recommended 500mg. Felt a minor "drunk buzz" feeling, but nothing major.

Day 2: Bumped it up to 1G. This was the first and only time I felt "amazing" on Phenibut. I went to work that day and had an amazing experience. I was talkative, intelligent and had a lot of focus which I normally lack. I was my usual funny self, but I carried myself with much more confidence than normal and I wasn't plagued with the social awkwardness that usually stunts my typical interactions with people. I tend to be very spacey and have very bad issues with memory - but again, this all seemed to disappear. I was finally the person I always knew I could be underneath all the fog wrapping itself around my brain.

Day 3: Did the same 1G, but the effects weren't as noticeable. They were there, but to a much more minor extent.

Day 4: Bumped it up to 1.5G: The effects were even less noticeable this time, and I seemed to be a little more "lethargic" than normal.

At this point I decided to stop taking Phenibut for three days. After the three-day "washout" period, I decided to resume with the 1.5G. Again, no major noticeable effects and a slight bit of lethargy. The next day - same thing. And yet again the third day.

Currently I am on day 4 without Phenibut and have a holiday party tomorrow night for work that I have to attend which means I plan on taking a dose of Phenibut to help me through it. I haven't decided what size that dose will be, but I will be taking it. Hopefully some of the effects will be present. I have never in my life experienced a drug that builds a tolerance with so much haste, and that scares me. I loved how "normal" I finally felt after all these years yearning for such a thing, and naturally it came with a HUGE downside to it.

Life. lol.


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## eric25 (Mar 20, 2014)

Wow spag, good review. I am considering trying phenibut but hope its not like benzos which were terrible. I am going to do more research, but probably will try phenibut at least once. And then also maybe picamilion which I heard is similar but with less sides. I like liftmode, and am using their theanine, which I think is very mild in its anxiolytic effect, I need something more reliable and stronger. That's great that liftmode ships to Zimbabwe though! I love traveling, but worry if I wouldnt be able to take my noots or supplements with me! Anyway, if I get it I will try to post my review but using mostly herbs like ashwagandha and kava kava for now.


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