# Refuting negative/anxious thoughts



## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

I feel like alot of therapy books and therapists over simplify the process of challenging negative thoughts. My current therapist isnt too bad in this area fortunately, but she does seems too optimisitic about my slow to none progress. A lot of books and therapists that I've had just keep telling me to challenge my thoughts which is good, but they make it seem like once you find a good counterstatement problem solved...not so easy. Its hard to keep fighting them when you just get hounded by all these anxious thoughts over and over, and when i challenge them its kinda like well thats nice i dont really need to worry about that, but the anxiety doesnt go away. I feel a little better mainly because i've relaized my thoughts are just anxious ones and probably not true or realistic but still the anxiety remains I mean wtf? I think my brain is so biased it doesnt believe that anything good is gonna happen to me. Talk about frustrating!

I guess i'm just wondering if this is the case for anyone else doing cbt style therapy and does your anxiety actually start to diminish after you keep on practicing these techniques for a long time? I know it takes a long time to retrain your brain. I've been working at this for a few months straight and overall for years on and off with almost no effect on my anxiety levels. I guess I'm just frustrated atm. Any insight would be much appreciated!  For now I'm just gonna keep at it and hope!


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

I've felt the same frustration you do with CBT. BUT keep at it. The change is very slow, but once you put a more realistic thought in your head it will eat away at the automatic negative thoughts. They are most of the times irrational and your brain will make sense of things but it will take TIME... 

Trust me keep at it. They will slowly diminish but u gotta keep at it and keep challenging them possibly forever... but at least they will lessen, or you will have alternatives to feeling so negative and pessimistic about yourself in social situations or just your self worth. I think it can take years, but it's better than not using CBT and just going down the downward spiral of depression... good luck

Also, you probably think it's 'no effect' on your anxiety, but I doubt that. Even if it's just a little effect (like getting you to socialize/expose yourself, even if that is painful) then it put u in the right direction. Experience is key, even if at the moment you feel the pain of the SA...


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Cool thanks for your reply i definitely wanted to hear a little encouragment to keep at it!


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Cbt is a great treatment and I'd advise to keep at it but there are other things u can do in this area. For example, what are the differences in your head between s negative thought and a positive thought?


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

joinmartin said:


> Cbt is a great treatment and I'd advise to keep at it but there are other things u can do in this area. For example, what are the differences in your head between s negative thought and a positive thought?


Well to me negative thoughts are just automatic and are usually worry thoughts and I'm so used to them they seem like truth. But positive thoughts which seem foreign seem much more balanced and more likely to be true rationally speaking. The real problem for me is letting go of the negative and embracing the positive any suggestions? I was actually going to bring this up with my therapist today but she cancelled my appointment due to the snowstorm we got.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Keith it's not just positive vs negative thoughts...it's also about neutral, RATIONAL thoughts. Thoughts that are based on what's most likely going to occur in a future event or what most likely is happening in a real life social situation:

True example:
I was really scared to meet up with friends for dinner for my birthday. These were a few close friends from school that know me pretty well, I hadn't seen some in a while, so I was particularly anxious. I felt inside a general surface fear of the social interaction.--thinking more deeply about it, more specifically I was afraid that they would notice my anxiety and think i'm anxious and boring--therefore uncool and unfit to be their friend. I felt that I would have nothing to say, or come off lame if I told a story or joke. I was thinking they might make fun of me for this or just not want to see me ever again. (sidenote: i did end up drinking a little which eased my fear in the actual situation)

Automatic Negative thoughts: Anticipatory--I should cancel on dinner w friends, I'm going to fail at this, they're expecting so much from me-- Deep down I was thinking I'd lose them as friends or I'd look lame/scared, they'd think less of me & very likely not want to be my friend. Any mistakes I made would make both them and me think less of myself and therefore I'd be unworthy as a person. I will have nothing to talk about and my friends are expecting a lot out of me because its my birthday.
I felt that them noticing my anxious twitchy self would make them reject me as a person, or make me reject myself. Like showing SA would be the end.

My counter to these Automatic Negative thoughts are more Neutral & Rational: Yes I might show anxiety, yes I might come off a little lame, BUT this is not the end of the world. I've seen other people/friends come off as shy, anxious, or even stupid and I still accept them as my friend. A little shyness is endearing, being anxious should not be a reason to avoid this. Also I know that even if I come off a socially off or uncool in front of old friends, that they will still be my friends. The probability of them not wanting to be my friend for me acting anxious is very low. like 1/100 or even less (& if they feel that way then they are not real friends, I can live without their approval or support or find new friends). 

After being in the situation I realize that I did show some anxiety. I actually was kind of quiet when we met up. In the beginning in particular I avoided eye contact and had facial twitches in my eyes and around my mouth which I have when I'm very anxious. They did more talking and I think they did notice that I was anxious. BUT after about 20-30 minutes my anxiety lessened to about 5-6 out of 10 from originally and anticipatory-anxiety of about 9 out of 10. 
Also Even though I came off anxious/quiet my friends are still my friends. If I lose them because of this I'm better off without them. No one brought up my anxiety and it's probably unlikely they all really noticed. If they did they are still my friends and the situation was never near as bad as I thought it would be. I ended up telling some stories/ jokes once I felt comfortable.


So that's kind of how countering thoughts goes. I have to congratulate myself for just putting myself in the situation....and not running away from it. It's about thinking more rationally. Accepting some anxiety. You don't have to be completely positive.... because some positive thoughts are irrational (I'm not going to go into the birthday dinner situation saying --I am a social butterfly who is the life of the party and everyone loves my gregarious nature) That simply is not the truth, nor would my subconscious/brain accept it.

After constantly doing these your anxiety will diminish, but you have to always accept that there will be some SA in your life. Even more important some SA is OK and actually good for you. (if you didn't have SA you would just walk around yelling/cutting people off from being able to reciprocate conversations/ or offend people by being too blunt etc)


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Your completely right AlexParker I really appreciate your post. I actually misused the word positive a bit my counter thoughts are in reality more neutral like yours. I just called them positive due to the fact that their not negative, black and white thinking i guess, I do that alot. I will however try to label them more properly in future. It might help me believe them more actually, thanks for pointing that out.


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

I've gotten discouraged about cognitive therapy too. My first piece of advice is to not exclude the possibility that there are thoughts you aren't even catching. Luckily, refuting negative thoughts actually makes it easier to catch ones you haven't caught yet. The more you do cognitive therapy, the easier it gets. Keep doing the therapy, keep an open mind, and you might start to realize that there are a whole bunch of negative thoughts you never even noticed.

My second piece of advice is to try to alienate your negative thoughts from reality. Obsess as much as you can over the idea that if they are negative, they must be causing your anxiety, and therefore must be irrational. If they're irrational, they absolutely cannot represent reality. This one took me a while to wrap my head around, but it really works now that i've gotten it.

My last piece of advice is to keep on trucking. It takes a while, but if you stick with it, it will start to become more natural.


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Cool thanks for the great advice wxolue I'll defintiely work on those things. It is frustrating though isnt it? But yeah I guess I just got to keep practicing and experiment with some new ideas a bit.


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## Giraffe (Sep 7, 2010)

In my experience, it's better not to refute them or even argue with them. I mean, we all know anxiety is irrational but just knowing that hasn't helped us much. Acknowledge your negative thoughts and let them go. This is also a skill but not a futile one, IMO.


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

Giraffe that sounds like a mindfulness technique I once learned. That approach works for some and it even worked for me to a degree especially with SA thoughts but not so much with my chronic worry/GAD. I've found that if i have a thought to counteract a negative series of thoughts like "It won't turn out as bad as i imagine" I get alittle bit of confidence maybe not an anxiety reduction but I feel a little better. My brain is trained a bit in the label it and let it go school as i took mindfulness based therapy for two years so i see your point and it is avalid one theres jsut so many different schools of thought and I've tried alot of them (ACT, DBT, MBCBT, CBT, REBT) its jsut so damn confusing as to whats the right apporach for each individual.


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