# Can christian god curse you?



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Some real **** has been happening to me lately, my mom got really sick, and now my parents are planning divorce, i am sick all the time too... None of this ever really happened before, we have been a happy family but now it has all gone to hell for some reason...

For some time now i have openly been part of the finnish paganism circles, for me that has been an escape from reality and i have found myself an holy place from ancient woodlands nearby my house, for some reason i feel that all of the **** in my life has happened after i became a pagan... So my question is, can one be cursed by a christian god, because right now i really feel that something like that might have happened...


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> Some real **** has been happening to me lately, my mom got really sick, and now my parents are planning divorce, i am sick all the time too... None of this ever really happened before, we have been a happy family but now it has all gone to hell for some reason...
> 
> For some time now i have openly been part of the finnish paganism circles, for me that has been an escape from reality and i have found myself an holy place from ancient woodlands nearby my house, for some reason i feel that all of the **** in my life has happened after i became a pagan... So my question is, can one be cursed by a christian god, because right now i really feel that something like that might have happened...


For sure, no one will truelly be happy away from God. The devil hates us and will do anything to destroy us. That is why in the Bible occultism is cursed and a deadly sin because it destroys you, people around, and your relationship with God. The two most important commandments are 'Love God will all your mind, soul and strength'', and 'love your neighbor as yourself'! So set yourself free from this curse and pray to God to make Himself known. God loves you moer than anyone.

Believe in Jesus, ask forgiveness for your sins, promise Him you will follow Him and ask for Him to change you. Jesus is the way, truth, and life, and only way to God.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Royals said:


> For sure, no one will truelly be happy away from God. The devil hates us and will do anything to destroy us. That is why in the Bible occultism is cursed and a deadly sin because it destroys you, people around, and your relationship with God. The two most important commandments are 'Love God will all your mind, soul and strength'', and 'love your neighbor as yourself'! So set yourself free from this curse and pray to God to make Himself known. God loves you moer than anyone.
> 
> Believe in Jesus, ask forgiveness for your sins, promise Him you will follow Him and ask for Him to change you. Jesus is the way, truth, and life, and only way to God.


Sadly, i cannot accept a god who with greed broke our connection to our forefathers, our history and our bond to nature and all those beings who live in the astral realms we humans cant see, for the nature has the real power, nature can bring about the end of this world, and the man who denys the power of nature is a true fool indeed...


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> Sadly, i cannot accept a god who with greed broke our connection to our forefathers, our history and our bond to nature and all those beings who live in the astral realms we humans cant see, for the nature has the real power, nature can bring about the end of this world, and the man who denys the power of nature is a true fool indeed...


Don't mistake human's mistakes with God's! Humans are to blame for the misery and pain not God! God is holy and loving. He tells us to love each other. You want help right? Who is more important? Your life, and loved ones, or your doubt and pride? God loves us, all sinners He wants to save. He wants to give eternal life to all. If you really love your family believe in God. So decide or not. If you don't want help then why ask?


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

In Christianity, we believe those in the astral realm are actually deceiving spirits (demons) that try to keep people further from the truth. As far as connection to the forefathers, God is our Heavenly Father. And to answer your question, no, He wouldn't curse you. He just wants to rescue you. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10 ESV


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Royals said:


> Don't mistake human's mistakes with God's! Humans are to blame for the misery and pain not God! God is holy and loving. He tells us to love each other. You want help right? Who is more important? Your life, and loved ones, or your doubt and pride? God loves us, all sinners He wants to save. He wants to give eternal life to all. If you really love your family believe in God. So decide or not. If you don't want help then why ask?


I asked because i wanted to make matters clear, if i have been cursed then let it be, for i know that after death my spirit will return to tuonela and i will listen the stories of väinämöinen who will one day return to this country, i do not fear your god and i do not care when you try and frighten me with all this talk of hell and eternal suffering... For i stand in the shoulders of giants


----------



## Ominous Indeed (Sep 6, 2015)

I don't believe so, no.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

lilyamongthorns said:


> In Christianity, we believe those in the astral realm are actually deceiving spirits (demons) that try to keep people further from the truth. As far as connection to the forefathers, God is our Heavenly Father. And to answer your question, no, He wouldn't curse you. He just wants to rescue you. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10 ESV


It seems odd that in bible they talk about thieves who come to steal, kill and destroy, let me tell you a little story about thieves who really did come to steal, kill and destroy, it was the swedish who landed to the shores of this ancient country some 800 years ago, carrying with them crosses and a holy man from far away lands... However they did not come in peace, i just a few years they had with violence and murder tried to scare off our beliefs, rune singers were banished, shamans were killed, and holy moores were burned, for hundreds of years these monsters killed and pillaged and only in the late 18th century did my nation bend... However... Even today on the long days during summer soltice do my countrymen light up bonfires and raise their glasses in honor of all those who came before, and nothing will ever bring dow those ancient stories that those who you call people of peace and love tried to rid from us...


----------



## Blue2015 (Jul 3, 2015)

No.


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> It seems odd that in bible they talk about thieves who come to steal, kill and destroy, let me tell you a little story about thieves who really did come to steal, kill and destroy, it was the swedish who landed to the shores of this ancient country some 800 years ago, carrying with them crosses and a holy man from far away lands... However they did not come in peace, i just a few years they had with violence and murder tried to scare off our beliefs, rune singers were banished, shamans were killed, and holy moores were burned, for hundreds of years these monsters killed and pillaged and only in the late 18th century did my nation bend... However... Even today on the long days during summer soltice do my countrymen light up bonfires and raise their glasses in honor of all those who came before, and nothing will ever bring dow those ancient stories that those who you call people of peace and love tried to rid from us...


Jesus is the example, not those who claim to know Him. Besides, there are sinners on all sides, doesn't matter what religion one follows, but those who truly follow Christ will emulate him.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

[staff edit - quote has been removed]



lilyamongthorns said:


> Jesus is the example, not those who claim to know Him. Besides, there are sinners on all sides, doesn't matter what religion one follows, but those who truly follow Christ will emulate him.


I am afraid Kalfusadon may have opened up something in the demonic realm by going to idols. We can't see everything that goes on around us. I have seen testimonies of people who dabbled in the occult and even Santeria. One man literally came face to face with Satan in the midst of a Santeria worship.

If he senses something is wrong, then disregarding that hunch may not be the best thing to do. Remember, we are against powers and principalities that God may only be able to handle.


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

millenniumman75 said:


> I am afraid Kalfusadon may have opened up something in the demonic realm by going to idols. We can't see everything that goes on around us. I have seen testimonies of people who dabbled in the occult and even Santeria. One man literally came face to face with Satan in the midst of a Santeria worship.
> 
> If he senses something is wrong, then disregarding that hunch may not be the best thing to do. Remember, we are against powers and principalities that God may only be able to handle.


I didn't want to say it, but that's exactly what it is. When I started practicing paganism as a teenager, my family's finances went downhill really fast. My mom almost lost her business. I quickly realized that I had opened the door to something. After searching for answers, I found that only Jesus was able to rescue me. He closed those demonic doors and things went back to normal again.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

lilyamongthorns said:


> I didn't want to say it, but that's exactly what it is. When I started practicing paganism as a teenager, my family's finances went downhill really fast. My mom almost lost her business. I quickly realized that I had opened the door to something. After searching for answers, I found that only Jesus was able to rescue me. He closed those demonic doors and things went back to normal again.


 @Kalfusadon

No need to fear saying it, especially in this area.
The sick thing about the paganism stuff is that with all the ritual stuff, we think that we would know everything about that religion. That's a trick of the enemy and the demonic realm. They know more than we do. All we have to do is call on something we don't know about, and bad things can really happen - we don't even see it coming!

With God, He knows the whole story and literally every trick in the book of every demon....Baal, Ashteroth, Satan, Wicca, Pazuzu (yeah, the Exorcist demon was actually a demon), every single one of them. He knows where it all began. Like a loving parent, God sees where we went wrong and corrects. Demons MUST fear and flee the presence of the Holy Spirit. They have no hold over us unless WE let them in!


----------



## SA go0n (Mar 5, 2014)

Didn't God curse the ancient Israelites for disobeying him?


----------



## ilsr (Aug 29, 2010)

lilyamongthorns said:


> I didn't want to say it, but that's exactly what it is. When I started practicing paganism as a teenager, my family's finances went downhill really fast. My mom almost lost her business. I quickly realized that I had opened the door to something. After searching for answers, I found that only Jesus was able to rescue me. He closed those demonic doors and things went back to normal again.


Most likely. Opening up these doors including idol worship, new age, use of ouija board or some rituals etc. can lead to implicit "deals" with these entities and cause some bad things later. Well God can pretty much do what he wants. Some are called to be tested more harshly than others like Job or the Israelites.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

BrianPeppers said:


> Didn't God curse the ancient Israelites for disobeying him?


 It wasn't so much for disobeying as it was for idol worship. He was going to open a can of whoop on the Exodus people, but Moses had to step in and beg Him not to.



ilsr said:


> Most likely. Opening up these doors including idol worship, new age, use of ouija board or some rituals etc. can lead to implicit "deals" with these entities and cause some bad things later. Well God can pretty much do what he wants. Some are called to be tested more harshly than others like Job or the Israelites.


The Ouija board is how Regan MacNeil got possessed in the Exorcist. She thought it was an innocent game, but "Captain Howdy" was nothing but a trick of the demonic to get to her. That's how deceptive demons can really be - worse than wolves in sheep's clothing.


----------



## JamesM2 (Aug 29, 2012)

This thread has been cleaned up to remove several posts. The Spiritual Support forum is intended as a safe haven for those of faith to discuss their beliefs and provide support to each other - *it is not a place to debate the existence of a God or to put anyone down for their spiritual beliefs*.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

Are you serious?You, who are judging pagans, have no idea what paganism is about.Paganism is the ways of the ancient ones, of the people that lived before your Jesus Christ was born to preach about a controversial God.It is about respecting nature, it has nothing evil, demonic, and pagans don't even believe in a Satan-and those people that do worship Satan, have no business with us.
I have been walking the pagan path for years now.It is true that it made me more aware of the bad things happening in the world and nearby me but it has certainly not made my life worse.It hasn't caused my finances to go downhill, neither it destroyed my family or had God curse me or whatever.Paganism is not about that...Living close to nature is what has kept me alive when I had no reason to live-I learnt to treasure each sunrise, each sunset, it has opened up my eyes and heart to new ways of seeing life and the world.
I won't go further.Paganism enriches your life in that it doesn't try to control your mind or the way you feel, like christianism does.Paganism is about nature, working hard, the land, the seasons, duality of the world, freedom, doing what you want as long as you harm none.
Again, if you are going to reply to someone based on media's preconceived ideas and judgements, wrong ones at that, of paganism, then better say nothing at all.
And my pagan brother, look around at nature, I am certain it will inspire you to a way to move past the rough times you're experiencing.
P.S. I have been a devoted christian before following paganism, and I have no regrets at all about turning to paganism.Again, Satan worshippers have nothing to do with us.Satan wasn't even real for our world until CHRISTIANS brought this notion up.


----------



## jonesy497 (Mar 29, 2016)

You're not cursed. I'm all for people believing whatever deity they want, but curses aren't a thing... You're probably just going through some bad luck, and maybe your worries about your spiritualism are making it worse and keeping you from actively doing something about your problems, or it might just be misfortune who knows, either way it's not a curse. God wouldn't curse you for believing in something different anyway, God loves all people not just "true" Christians.


----------



## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

BrianPeppers said:


> Didn't God curse the ancient Israelites for disobeying him?


Apparently,Deuteronomy....
*Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;* 27A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: 28And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> Are you serious?You, who are judging pagans, have no idea what paganism is about.Paganism is the ways of the ancient ones, of the people that lived before your Jesus Christ was born to preach about a controversial God.It is about respecting nature, it has nothing evil, demonic, and pagans don't even believe in a Satan-and those people that do worship Satan, have no business with us.
> I have been walking the pagan path for years now.It is true that it made me more aware of the bad things happening in the world and nearby me but it has certainly not made my life worse.It hasn't caused my finances to go downhill, neither it destroyed my family or had God curse me or whatever.Paganism is not about that...Living close to nature is what has kept me alive when I had no reason to live-I learnt to treasure each sunrise, each sunset, it has opened up my eyes and heart to new ways of seeing life and the world.
> I won't go further.Paganism enriches your life in that it doesn't try to control your mind or the way you feel, like christianism does.Paganism is about nature, working hard, the land, the seasons, duality of the world, freedom, doing what you want as long as you harm none.
> Again, if you are going to reply to someone based on media's preconceived ideas and judgements, wrong ones at that, of paganism, then better say nothing at all.
> ...


its amazing to see another pagan in here since this forum clearly has a christian majority, and thanks for your support!


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> I asked because i wanted to make matters clear, if i have been cursed then let it be, for i know that after death my spirit will return to tuonela and i will listen the stories of väinämöinen who will one day return to this country, i do not fear your god and i do not care when you try and frighten me with all this talk of hell and eternal suffering... For i stand in the shoulders of giants


Brother, just answering your question. I only want to help out of love and concern for you! If you love someone tell them the truth. And God is the truth.

Jesus said:

"I am the Way, Truth and Life. No one comes to the Father but by me"

"He who believes in my name will have eternal life"

John says "For God so loved the world He send His only Son so that whoever believes in Him may not perish but have everlasting life"

The Bible talks about a heaven where God, Jesus, the angels, saints and dead saved souls dwell. And about a lake of fire, a graveyard, sheol, where those who rejected God go.This is what God says. The one and only God of the Bible 'EHYEH ASHER EHYEH'. You never had experience with Him so how can you say you know Him?

Call Him and He shall answer. He will save you. Look and read all the saved people who come from the occult world and say how they say Jesus is the way. Most Christians were sinners before, a lot of us were first in the occult but God saved us. So take it from us, we are the experts. We know a life before and after. Without and with God. And we can't play with our life and soul like that. Everyday could be the last and we all have to be responsible for our words and actions and stand before God one day.We cannot say we didn't know about God or the gospel when we heard it. God loves you.

Choose what you want, but be responsible for your actions. God bless


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> _Post deleted_


Royals is genuine. And I hope I am too. I think you are wrong to generalize Christians. I can't speak for all but many want to be like Christ because he is the ultimate role model, showing us how to love and sacrifice for others. We do good deeds because he taught us how. We see how He has loved others and that love for others well up in our hearts too.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

I think the Bible has misquoted Jesus and has changed so many of his facts and words...And I am damn sure love is not about pushing your own beliefs down someone else's throat."If you love someone tell them the truth, and Jesus is the truth", said Royals.Jesus is HIS PERSONAL TRUTH not the universal truth if you want to love someone learn to know them and to help them according to their own set of beliefs...As long as those beliefs harm none, and paganism is not doing harm to anyone.


----------



## Owlbear (Dec 3, 2015)

@JustALonelyHeart

Nicely said. Although I do joke about sacrificing virgins to show how silly non-pagans are when they talk about pagans. 
@Kalfusadon

Unfortunately bad things happen. Sorry to hear about your troubles mate.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @*Royals* You don't want to help out of "love"...save it.Christian people only help people because their God told them to.Every christian I have ever met was doing good deeds only to prove to others that they are believers in God and how good christians they were...But there was nothing genuine about them doing those good deeds.I much rather will believe a tornado tearing down a city is genuine rather than a christian preaching "love"."Love" and "christianism" are two different notions and one have nothing to do with the other.Christianism is a religion that uses Jesus Christ and the good things he did as tools to have people converted to one-world religion for control...And Jesus would be ashamed if he saw what his teachings are being used for.
> Don't preach about love to a non christian person because we can see right through it.Go ahead tell me I will burn in hell for what I just said.I couldn't care less.


I never ever said you going to burn in hell, I am not God or can't decide for you. I never condemned, I only talk from God's point of view and my own experience.

How do you know my true intentions? I always helped people. But what is bad if God can be an extra motivational and inspirationl force to stimulate and inspire you even more? God for surely has taught me to love myself, others and my enemies more. But I already had this love inside of me. Jesus only showed me how to truelly serve others and He gave me a love I never felt before.

You really can't generalize. Those kind of Christians believe good works can get them/buy them into heaven. That is not the way to do it. Don't let those type of people create a negative image of all Christians. A true Christian tries to be Christ like wich is quite a task to do. Just love others as yourself, helping should be unselfishly. Let your right hand not know what your left hand gives Jesus said. So giving should be without expecting back. If I didn't care about him or others I wouldn't even react and write such a long text. I only want others be happy and not in darkness. I know enough people who couldn't find happiness until they found God. Only in the light there is true salvation and happiness. So I share from experience and other one's experience. Because other religions or those who believe in demigods do damage to themselves and others. Since false gods are demons and they cause destruction. Putting spells on others who love you is not loving. Living selfishly and doing what you please is not loving. So that is not loving others as yourself. Believing in Christ causes no destruction since He preaches love. Sin, those things wich contradict God's word, leads to death the Bible says. And he who sins is of the devil the Bible says. So when God forbids magic, sorcery and worshipping false gods He had good reason. Because He loves us too much to want us 
get lost and destruct ourselves. And if you love others you would warn them and teach them also out of love so that they might be saved and see God's truth. If you knew someone was lost, destructive, or drowning wouldn't you try to help/save them? It's our duty. Because when you are caught up in darkness you won't see the light, so someone has to tell them. I don't deserve the gloy, God does.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Royals said:


> I never ever said you going to burn in hell, I am not God or can't decide for you. I never condemned, I only talk from God's point of view and my own experience.
> 
> How do you know my true intentions? I always helped people. But what is bad if God can be an extra motivational and inspirationl force to stimulate and inspire you even more? God for surely has taught me to love myself, others and my enemies more. But I already had this love inside of me. Jesus only showed me how to truelly serve others and He gave me a love I never felt before.
> 
> ...


I have found my light, the light that shines trough the ancient trees and groves of our firefathers!

"Early one morning, around the first of May,
A man in black came walking, into a woodland glade,
Following the sounds of pipes on this beautiful Spring day,
High on the music that they made.
But what beheld him within that place?
A look of recognition fell across his face,
"Lucifer, oh Lucifer, why do you appear to me?
For I am a man of God, a priest.

I'm no devil I'm Father to the land,
I have lived here since the Earth began,
Neither black nor white,
Priest hear what I say,
I'm green and grey.

The priest said, "Lucifer, Lucifer you lie so well,
I will pray unto my God, go back to the fires of Hell!
You fell from Heaven, and you fell from Grace.
You want dominion over this place."
The Piper smiled, and to the priest he said,
"I was Lord of Animals, the Wild Hunt I led,
Until your God came here and with his jealous hand,
It was he who wanted dominion over this land.

The priest said, "All evil comes from your hand."
The Piper said, "If evil is, it lies in the hearts of Man."
"But you lead us, oh you tempt us, to rape, to steal, to kill!"
The Piper said, "Whatever happened to free will?"
Then the Grove lay empty, the priest told no one.
The blossom lay upon the thorn, the Piper's tune was done.
And in the sunlit forest, the animals they bowed,
As the Piper lay his Goddess down"


----------



## Owlbear (Dec 3, 2015)

@Royals

I think you're missing the point that many pagans know you feel a need to "save" them. But many don't care, so spend your time on someone who would be open to your message. I spent months studying Asian religions and have had people encourage me to join Islam. They all sounded a bit like you do, especially the Muslims. Everyone is trying to turn each other from the path to Hades, and somehow their path is the best.

Now not all religions are the same, I'm not suggesting that. But fair words do not always bear the fruit they promise. 
I am more at peace now than I ever was as a Christian. And the funny thing is I actually sin less. I'm more truthful. More genuine. I even give to charity more. Why is it without "God's grace" I am more Christian in action than when I was going to church every Sunday and reading the Bible?
I found a better way of living. I do not convert others, I still speak with and help my Christian community and friends. If that means I am "destined" for perdition over a vile man who sins and seeks forgiveness his entire life, I'm not so sure if Christianity is as good as it sounds.


----------



## Furiosa (Jun 2, 2015)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @Royals Just like Kalfusadon has said, I too have found my light, and happiness among trees.Nature is my light.And excuse me, but our pagan "spells" aren't that different than your christian prayers.It is that christians took from us the ways of praying, in temples, with candles and all that jazz and then considered "evil" all those who did the same but not believed in christianism.Christmas is actually our celebration of coming of winter season.Easter was Ostara, I hate it how christians took all our holidays and converted them and perverted them to their own selfish reasons and them dared call us evil.
> And maybe Jesus was good.But read my blogpost on religion.The christians were the ones who burnt witches...for what??And killing the witches' familiars too.Now I get suspecting people of witchcraft but cats??Seriously??Also, all the crusades y'all started.All the hatred y'all spread against nature lovers.So what's wrong with doing "spells"?We actually understood from old times that it has to do with a bit of power of manifestation and the healing properties of herbs and crystals we work with.So what is wrong with believing in other deities?If I believe in Gaia, in Mother Earth?At least she is real, tangible, unlike your God.We live by the rule "do what you will if it harms none".Whatever did you christians ever did for this planet, supposedly your beloved God's creation, excepting destroying it piece by piece?Should I mention the corruption of the church and the priests?The priests who sexually mollest children?
> Don't make me go further on christianism.
> Religion is ****ed up.Trying to follow Jesus' example might be a good idea.The world needs more love.But only because YOU think I am lost, does not mean that I am really lost, because guess what.I am actually found.You are being biased and for what?Something that was written so many centuries ago we don't even know those written in that book aka the Bible has actually happened or it is all just one big lie.While Earth is real.This life we have is real.And I will not trade it for all Bibles in the world.


Very well said *claps*. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @Royals Just like Kalfusadon has said, I too have found my light, and happiness among trees.Nature is my light.And excuse me, but our pagan "spells" aren't that different than your christian prayers.It is that christians took from us the ways of praying, in temples, with candles and all that jazz and then considered "evil" all those who did the same but not believed in christianism.Christmas is actually our celebration of coming of winter season.Easter was Ostara, I hate it how christians took all our holidays and converted them and perverted them to their own selfish reasons and them dared call us evil.
> And maybe Jesus was good.But read my blogpost on religion.The christians were the ones who burnt witches...for what??And killing the witches' familiars too.Now I get suspecting people of witchcraft but cats??Seriously??Also, all the crusades y'all started.All the hatred y'all spread against nature lovers.So what's wrong with doing "spells"?We actually understood from old times that it has to do with a bit of power of manifestation and the healing properties of herbs and crystals we work with.So what is wrong with believing in other deities?If I believe in Gaia, in Mother Earth?At least she is real, tangible, unlike your God.We live by the rule "do what you will if it harms none".Whatever did you christians ever did for this planet, supposedly your beloved God's creation, excepting destroying it piece by piece?Should I mention the corruption of the church and the priests?The priests who sexually mollest children?
> Don't make me go further on christianism.
> Religion is ****ed up.Trying to follow Jesus' example might be a good idea.The world needs more love.But only because YOU think I am lost, does not mean that I am really lost, because guess what.I am actually found.You are being biased and for what?Something that was written so many centuries ago we don't even know those written in that book aka the Bible has actually happened or it is all just one big lie.While Earth is real.This life we have is real.And I will not trade it for all Bibles in the world.


What comes to holydays that christians have stolen, in finland we they have done the same... however there is one holyday called "juhannus" it is basicly a celebration of midsummer and starting of the farming season, it has been celebrated since the ancient times and is often acompanied by this thing called "ukon wacka" that is a celebration of ukko (who is bit like odin to us). Funny thing is that christians have tryed to make juhannus a day of john the babtist... but you know what... literally no one is buying that ****, it is one still truly pagan holyday in this country and that will never change, in that sence i am really proud of my countrymen
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @*Royals* Just like Kalfusadon has said, I too have found my light, and happiness among trees.Nature is my light.And excuse me, but our pagan "spells" aren't that different than your christian prayers.It is that christians took from us the ways of praying, in temples, with candles and all that jazz and then considered "evil" all those who did the same but not believed in christianism.Christmas is actually our celebration of coming of winter season.Easter was Ostara, I hate it how christians took all our holidays and converted them and perverted them to their own selfish reasons and them dared call us evil.
> And maybe Jesus was good.But read my blogpost on religion.The christians were the ones who burnt witches...for what??And killing the witches' familiars too.Now I get suspecting people of witchcraft but cats??Seriously??Also, all the crusades y'all started.All the hatred y'all spread against nature lovers.So what's wrong with doing "spells"?We actually understood from old times that it has to do with a bit of power of manifestation and the healing properties of herbs and crystals we work with.So what is wrong with believing in other deities?If I believe in Gaia, in Mother Earth?At least she is real, tangible, unlike your God.We live by the rule "do what you will if it harms none".Whatever did you christians ever did for this planet, supposedly your beloved God's creation, excepting destroying it piece by piece?Should I mention the corruption of the church and the priests?The priests who sexually mollest children?
> Don't make me go further on christianism.
> Religion is ****ed up.Trying to follow Jesus' example might be a good idea.The world needs more love.But only because YOU think I am lost, does not mean that I am really lost, because guess what.I am actually found.You are being biased and for what?Something that was written so many centuries ago we don't even know those written in that book aka the Bible has actually happened or it is all just one big lie.While Earth is real.This life we have is real.And I will not trade it for all Bibles in the world.


But how do you know for sure you are not deceived? There can only be one truth right? So when Jesus says 'I am the Way, Truth, and Life, and only way to the Father', and the 'Son of Man' and Savior of mankind, do you think He was lying? I have seen soooo many ex-wiccans and occultists claim Jesus truelly brought them peace and that they didn't know that first because they were caught up in the dark. So how can you know for sure you are not being deceived? The devil comes as an angel of light and he always lies and deceives people away from God. Nature is God's creation so why not worship the Creator instead of His creation?

Wiccans also use spells to curse and kill people. Do you think that's loving behavior and loving your enemy and neighbor? I heard so many stories from ex wiccans who did that. Basically they say to not hurt anyone unless they hurt you. Jesus says 'love your enemies, bless those who curse you, turn the other cheek'. Prayer in the name of God is loving and nor harmful. It is only meant to help others and wish them the best, not to harm another. You know that the Jews were the first to pray (to God)? You know that Jesus told us to pray? *

"Father who are in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, On earth as it is on heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, just us we forgive our debters. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the might, glory and power"

*That is true love. and forgiveness.You sayChristians took thos celebrations.But Easter is actually originally a Jewish holiday/feast. It celebrated the exodus from Egypt.Christmas might have pagan origins but Christians celebrate it to remind Jesus birthday. Ofcourse I know 24 December wasn't His true birthdate but it's only to remind us of it.Others made it too commercial, it's not about eggs, bunnies, food, trees or presents but about God's mercy and birthday.And what about stealing symbols? Where do you think the pentagram came from?From the Christian five pointed star wich symbolised the five wounds of Jesus cruxifiction originally.And what about the inverted cross? That was Peter's symbol who was cruxified upside down. Pagans stole those symbols and made it their own because they love to twist the original holy meaning of it.I totally agree with the fact that Middle age practices of burning innocent so called witches is totally not how Christians should have acted.So I apologize for that.But you have to know Chriist never told us to do that. Only to love one another. And to first look at yourself before you judge another. He who is without sin cast the first stone. He healed all sorts of people including Mary Magdalene who probably was pracitising divination. There is a reason why God forbids us to practice magic, wichery, divination or such things because He knows the harm it can cause. Maybe it's not always plain to see but from the inside it slowly can destruct you. So that is the danger of those practices. God wants us not to sin because he loves us so much. He only wants what is best for us.

Please don't confuse me with those who abuse their religion, I try my best to practice Jesus teachings. I love you, I love anyone, I just don't agree with sin or practices wich God forbids. I can seperate people from their lifestyle. When I see and know the dangers of certain things I can only warn or tell them the truth because I love my fellow man enough to want the best for them. I cannot act irresponsible and just watch them in pain or destroy themselves. That wouldn't be loving. I believe we need to be responsible for each other on earth since we are all each other's brother and sister. We are all in this together. If you love someone tell them the truth. And yes, often the truth can be harsh or confronting to those who don't see, understand or want to hear it. But I can't deny God's truth.

Also I believe the crusades was mostly a defense against Muslim invasions. Luckily the Muslims didn't won or else we would be Muslim now. You can see that Islam always tries to invade and conquer the world like today with ISIS. I love nature, I love God's creation, I just don't think we should worship idols or the creation, but instead the Creator. I also believe all those rituals like even the catholics do is supersitition. Because God never said we need to do those to believe in Him. All those things are just distractions and can lead you away from God, wich is very dangerous. See, if the two most important commandments are 'Love God with all your heart, mind and strength', and 'love your neighbor as yourself' if have to obey those.

I do believe herbs can heal, and that God created plants for us to use. Much better than chemical fabricized medicine. But fortune telling, tarrot card reading, using the ouija board and such things are very dangerous because we do not know our future, and we attract lyuing and deceiving spirits (demons). Again, the devil knows our weaknesses and is very smart. He knows all the tactics and ways to make it seem beautiful but it's a wolf in sheeps clothing. So be careful for his temptations and lies.
I also believe God's healing of the Holy Spirit works best, more than material things like crystals. Healing with our own power and not through the Holy Spirit is also dangerous because we can invite unclean spirits like the Bible always calls them. All sin attracts those also.

Well there is a reason why God forbds to worship other false gods, statues or idols because we do not actually worship the god but the demon behind it. Again the devil uses his demons to lie to us. Making it seem innocent but in reality it's not. So when you do not know how to discern spirits and his tactics you don't know who can really be trusted and who not. Satan uses many things to deceive and lie to us: idolatry, lust, false religions/gods, materialism, egoism, hate, temptations, all the things God preached against.

How do you know also if what we physically see is not really an illusion? Only molecules and atoms in vast form? God is all around us, He is in us, outside of us, we communicate to Him with our spirit. He encompasses everything. You don't believe in a Creator? Do you think this beautiful breathtaking nature just came out of nothing?

Yes, 'do what thy wilt unless you get harmed'. But do you realize that living like that is harmful? Isn't hurting yourself just as bad? If almost everything is allowed aren't you worshipping your ego and selfish wants? Smoking is ok? Drinking? Perverted sex? Porn? Don't you think sin hurts yourself and others? Even with manifesttation of negative energies you can hurt others. So rarely by living for yourself is going to bring forth good consequences. And all those things like getting drunk and high, and lustful thoughts lead to worse things and do hurt and influence others. So where do you draw the line? Aren't God's 10 commandments good guidelines on how to live?

Did you also know the in the USA it's Christians who donate the most money to good causes and do the most evangelist aid work worlwide? Churches worwlide help and serve the most people. That lifestyle of serving and helping others is what we all need to do. Not only living for ourselves agree?

And Christians scientists from the 1700-1800 centuries bascially laid the foundation for modern science. Einstein, Bacon, Galileo, Newton, Mendel, Kepler, Copernicus, Descartes, Kelvin....basically shaped science. Also a Christian, John dams abolished slavery. Destroying the planet is not based on religion but on the human in general.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @*Royals* Just like Kalfusadon has said, I too have found my light, and happiness among trees.Nature is my light.And excuse me, but our pagan "spells" aren't that different than your christian prayers.It is that christians took from us the ways of praying, in temples, with candles and all that jazz and then considered "evil" all those who did the same but not believed in christianism.Christmas is actually our celebration of coming of winter season.Easter was Ostara, I hate it how christians took all our holidays and converted them and perverted them to their own selfish reasons and them dared call us evil.
> And maybe Jesus was good.But read my blogpost on religion.The christians were the ones who burnt witches...for what??And killing the witches' familiars too.Now I get suspecting people of witchcraft but cats??Seriously??Also, all the crusades y'all started.All the hatred y'all spread against nature lovers.So what's wrong with doing "spells"?We actually understood from old times that it has to do with a bit of power of manifestation and the healing properties of herbs and crystals we work with.So what is wrong with believing in other deities?If I believe in Gaia, in Mother Earth?At least she is real, tangible, unlike your God.We live by the rule "do what you will if it harms none".Whatever did you christians ever did for this planet, supposedly your beloved God's creation, excepting destroying it piece by piece?Should I mention the corruption of the church and the priests?The priests who sexually mollest children?
> Don't make me go further on christianism.
> Religion is ****ed up.Trying to follow Jesus' example might be a good idea.The world needs more love.But only because YOU think I am lost, does not mean that I am really lost, because guess what.I am actually found.You are being biased and for what?Something that was written so many centuries ago we don't even know those written in that book aka the Bible has actually happened or it is all just one big lie.While Earth is real.This life we have is real.And I will not trade it for all Bibles in the world.


The vatican church is not Christian, it's a deceiving harlot. So I agree that those men don't represents Christ. But in satanism thousands babies and children get killed and offered yearly. They are all satanic to me.

You follow a religion also right? To me you don't have to believe in a religion to have a relationship with God.
But why does the Bible say: 'I once was lost but now I'm found, I was once blind but now I see'. And Jesus said 'come to me if you are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest'. So where does the true rest lies? Who can you follow to know what to do or say? You don't believe in a Savior or prophet. Nature doesn't talk back

Believe me the Bible is authentic and historical believed in by 2.2 billion believers and by 99.9% of all scholars, historians and theologians. No other book has more scriptural evidence than the Bible. It's hundreds of prophecies came true, and millions of lives been transformed by it. That is why it can be trusted. But who says the afterlife isn't real? This life isn't all we have and not everything wich is invisble doesn't exist.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

@Royals The pentagram is a symbol for the five elements-earth, air, water, fire, spirit.
And we stole nothing from you.Remember it was non christians who used the cross first.The cross became associated with Jesus after non christians killed him on a cross, but even so it does not make the cross YOUR symbol.Proof enough christians stole everything from us?And you dare call us thieves and say we're lost, wicked and evil?Jesus himself was a witch, you like it or not.As long as he was saying prayers, (or chanting spells-something only us pagans used to do before he taught his followers to pray his way), as long as he was healing people with his bare hands, because he was also a bio energy worker, aka healing using the energy around him...or his own.
He believed in healing people.Now I won't say some "wiccans" don't do stupid ****.Those aren't even real wiccans, and I am not wiccan.
Don't get me started on everything else you said...Just know this.I am not lost nor in darkness..I have found my light and my way.You like it or not, that light and way is not your god.And there are more truths in this universe, not just one.One only has to open their eyes and mind and seek for those truths.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @*CNikki* Those were true words of wisdom.
> 
> @*Royals* Jesus would never go around boasting he's the son of some God...that would be arrogance, and he taught people to be humble.Besides, God is a man made character.And nature does talk back...If you are willing to listen, you can learn a lot from nature.My paganism/pantheism/atheism is not a religion, it is not dogmatic, like christianism.It is just a spiritual path.


Jesus was sinless so He didn't boast indeed. He only told the truth. But read this:

"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the *Son of God*" (Luke 1:35)

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only *Son*, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (john 3:16)

"This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even *calling God his own Father*" (John 5:18)

"Father, the hour has come; glorify *your Son* that the Son may glorify you
(John 17:1)

"And a voice came out of the cloud, "This is *My beloved Son*, listen to Him!" (Mark 9:7)

But yet you suppose to worship mother earth right? But what if God encompasses everything isn't He all around us and in nature also?


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @*Royals* The pentagram is a symbol for the five elements-earth, air, water, fire, spirit.
> And we stole nothing from you.Remember it was non christians who used the cross first.The cross became associated with Jesus after non christians killed him on a cross, but even so it does not make the cross YOUR symbol.Proof enough christians stole everything from us?And you dare call us thieves and say we're lost, wicked and evil?Jesus himself was a witch, you like it or not.As long as he was saying prayers, (or chanting spells-something only us pagans used to do before he taught his followers to pray his way), as long as he was healing people with his bare hands, because he was also a bio energy worker, aka healing using the energy around him...or his own.
> He believed in healing people.Now I won't say some "wiccans" don't do stupid ****.Those aren't even real wiccans, and I am not wiccan.
> Don't get me started on everything else you said...Just know this.I am not lost nor in darkness..I have found my light and my way.You like it or not, that light and way is not your god.And there are more truths in this universe, not just one.One only has to open their eyes and mind and seek for those truths.


Yes, but I think heathens use those symbols to discredit Christianity. I mean satan means adversary. I never used the words thieves, wicked and evi, I only said I believe it's not the right path. The pharisees accused Jesus of being a magician and satan because He had supernatural abbilities and performed miracles. How could He be a witch when He preaches against divination, magic, witchery and those pracitices? And He heals through the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit, no one else. He didn't have no power Himself but only received it through God. I just think it's too bad you won't listen to good advise from someone with so much experience. But it's your choice. Can I ask what your parents think of your path and if they are religious?

Also if you think there is not one truth than everything is relative. Everything wrong can become right. Jesus makes it realy clear that He says the He is the only way, truth and life and way to God. No other one ever made that claim. So you either believe that or not. But eternal life is in Him.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

What my parents think is NONE of your business.It is not their business either what spiritual path I walk on, and I couldn't care less what they think.Yes, I worship Mother Earth.And each and every day that I walk among trees and smell the flowers, each and every moment the sun shines upon me...I KNOW for certain in my heart, that God does not exist.I can't feel any other deity or higher power except the energy, the raw energy pulsating through each tree, flower, through Mother herself.
You are saying pagans use those symbol to discredit Christianism?Wrong.We are just walking on the path that has called to us.We try to discredit none except defend ourselves from those seeking to destroy us.But our symbols, we use for positive intentions only.


----------



## naturemtn5 (Apr 14, 2016)

Back in my bible thumping days I would have told you your pagan gods arent based on reality and you needed to start a relationship with Jesus because he is the one true God. Things sort of changed for me after studying hidden history(which is actually an oxymoron by the way)...anyways I'm still a Christian but have come to understand the pagan gods are real and are actually inter dimensional beings. 
The only difference is they aren't eternal or the alpha/omega...meaning they have a beginning and were created. 
I have a feeling the forefathers of Odin and company were in the council of gods mentioned in Psalm 82:1. Anyways what I'm trying to get at is your Gods and the Christian God aren't necessarily at odds and pretty much all the objections you have with Christianity are a misinterpretation of what the religion teaches. 
The God of the old testament allowed pagans to worship their Gods and didn't punish them for it(according to my understanding) but the Jewish people were forbidden to worship any other Gods and when they did he would get very jealous (ofcourse this emotion is only a human approximation used to describe how an all loving God felt about a thing) and even punish them. Naturally he did curse / move against the pagans when they went to war against israel(he did have a covenant with them you know) . At times he did bless the pagans and cursed his own people(almost always as a result of serious sins) and he blessed individuals whether pagan or gentil. This whole arrangement drastically changed in the new testament(read writings of Paul). 
To this day the covenant stands so if you have Jewish blood in you a curse is possible...The other possibility of a curse could be if he calls you(this could simply be an interest/longing to know about the God of the bible) and you continually reject it...
As I mentioned I'm Christian but still like a lot of the teachings that come from Asatru (mainly the things to do with nature) however I would never worship any of the gods because I'm not called by them. If I were to worship any other gods it would be like spitting in my mother's or fathers face. Really it isn't even about having Jewish or Scandanavian blood (in my opinion).
It's more about who is calling/drawing you in Only you can decide this. Good luck


----------



## SofaKing (May 9, 2014)

Seems like posters are over complicating this.

A) there is no way for mere humans to know god's capabilities 

B) book of Job already addresses the "bad things happen to good people" contradiction 

While it may feel comforting to some to just use "god's plan" to justify all tragedy (or even romantic connections), I believe God created the framework and it's been on autopilot ever since.

In short, "stuff happens" and we're accountable for it all.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

@*JustALonelyHeart* 
Relax. There's no need to complicate, you just can't debate in Spiritual Support because you can't use logic. Save your strenght and time for other threads


----------



## Sco (Aug 2, 2015)

Ok, this escalated quickly and I read only the first page of comments(sort of). It's definitely not a curse, I don't think so, we all have free will to do and believe what we want to. I was in a period when it happened to me all kind of bad things and in that period I believed in God (still do) and went to church and other stuff. I tried to not blame anyone, but I did blame the greedy persons in my life at that time.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

@Kalfusadon Here is a link that might interest you www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/songod_sungod.htm
It really sheds light on christianism's pagan origins and how it makes sense that only way you can be "cursed" is living disconnected from nature-like humanity is nowadays.
So don't worry, you weren't cursed by any god.You are just going through a rough time, that is all.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> @Kalfusadon Here is a link that might interest you www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/songod_sungod.htm
> It really sheds light on christianism's pagan origins and how it makes sense that only way you can be "cursed" is living disconnected from nature-like humanity is nowadays.
> So don't worry, you weren't cursed by any god.You are just going through a rough time, that is all.


I shall check it out when i can, i want to give you a link too, although it is a full lenght book i suggest you atleast look in to it abit,

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/

it is basicly a bible of finnish paganism and it is really quite intresting, and thanks for all the support you have given me


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

Of course Jesus said "I am the way and the life and the truth"...Nature is the life, the way and the truth.By observing nature we will notice we all were created by the same energy, we all come from the same place, and when we will see that nature and time are eternal we will realise, we are eternal too, even if our bodies will die but we will still be part of nature, of energy, which is timeless.Nothing is ever lost, everything is transformed.There is no hell or heaven, except living far or close to nature.This is something the ancient ones knew well...But christians took the natural elements of the universe and wrote of them as if they were human, and managed to get millions of people to worship those humans and instead deconnect from nature.Jesus said, and this is probably one of our most treasured guidelines that were preserved by the Bible, "Ask and you shall be answered, knock and the door shall open" We knew that by observing nature, by always looking to learn more, we would find healing, comfort, answers, life.Why do some christians try to promote the "Believe and don't research" bs?Because they don't want people to see that actually christianism is based on nature, and pagan knowledge.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

@Kalfusadon Thank you also for the link, I will look into it.And you're welcome.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Stand in humbleness and awe of God's word. Listen to Him and return to Him.


"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death" (Revelation 21)

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15)

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:2)

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46)

"And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-4)

"And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:50)

"The Lord preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy"
(Psalms 145:20)

"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire" (Matthew 5:22)

"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 1:7)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3:36)


That is why we all need the forgiveness of sins to live eternally with God. Only unrepented sinners enter the gates of heaven. It is time for eveybody to honestly admit their sins and repent for them.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

JustALonelyHeart said:


> Of course Jesus said "I am the way and the life and the truth"...Nature is the life, the way and the truth.By observing nature we will notice we all were created by the same energy, we all come from the same place, and when we will see that nature and time are eternal we will realise, we are eternal too, even if our bodies will die but we will still be part of nature, of energy, which is timeless.Nothing is ever lost, everything is transformed.There is no hell or heaven, except living far or close to nature.This is something the ancient ones knew well...But christians took the natural elements of the universe and wrote of them as if they were human, and managed to get millions of people to worship those humans and instead deconnect from nature.Jesus said, and this is probably one of our most treasured guidelines that were preserved by the Bible, "Ask and you shall be answered, knock and the door shall open" We knew that by observing nature, by always looking to learn more, we would find healing, comfort, answers, life.Why do some christians try to promote the "Believe and don't research" bs?Because they don't want people to see that actually christianism is based on nature, and pagan knowledge.


Sorry but you're wrong again. You're making up an own truth. Biblically Jesus meant what He said. He is the only Way, Truth, and Life, adn only way to God. So not nature, no other god. And until you realize that you will never understand God. Nature fades and will be gone one day, God and your spirit are eternal and forever. Also Christianity was started by a group of Jews in Greece round 1 AD and doesn't have any pagan origins.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

^ Many users here could break your religion with arguments outside Spiritual Support, and they'd probably still love you. Don't take things for granted.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

eukz said:


> ^ Many users here could break your religion with arguments outside Spiritual Support, and they'd probably still love you. Don't take things for granted.


Sure, everybody has their own opinion. I don't need to win. I only quote God's word, not mines. And I wanted to help Kalfusadon with my answers. That was what it originally was about. There is no reason to go on a tirade like that and use personal attacks. I never condemned or attacked anyone personally. I am speaking in general what I believe and what God says. Just want the best for everyone and love and help them. Some people are just sensitive to/angry at God's word more than others. And that's normal. Can we just all respect each other's opinions without insulting and cursing?


----------



## SofaKing (May 9, 2014)

This reminds me of movie...



> Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.


----------



## modus (Apr 27, 2011)

eukz said:


> ^ Many users here could break your religion with arguments outside Spiritual Support, and they'd probably still love you. Don't take things for granted.


One of the most disillusioning things as a Christian was finding out that we don't have a monopoly on being able to love people. I'm with you there.

Where I'm not with you is your overconfidence that anyone's religion can be 'broken' if they just bothered to leave their safe zone. That's underestimating faith as a whole, especially those who have developed their faith over years and years.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

modus said:


> One of the most disillusioning things as a Christian was finding out that we don't have a monopoly on being able to love people. I'm with you there.
> 
> Where I'm not with you is your overconfidence that anyone's religion can be 'broken' if they just bothered to leave their safe zone. That's underestimating faith as a whole, especially those who have developed their faith over years and years.


Don't worry, I'm just talking about Christianity (beliefs like Buddhism can hardly be discredited, so I respect those). You could read the Bible or just google the flaws of Christianity and you'll be ahead.

And I just meant 'many users', there are obviously a lot of non-religious individuals who can't manage to win debates civilly.


----------



## modus (Apr 27, 2011)

eukz said:


> Don't worry, I'm just talking about Christianity (beliefs like Buddhism can hardly be discredited, so I respect those). You could read the Bible or just google the flaws of Christianity and you'll be ahead.
> 
> And I just meant 'many users', there are obviously a lot of non-religious individuals who can't manage to win debates civilly.


Gosh, now I just want you to try me or some people I know. You don't think we talk about the weak points of Christianity in groups?

Then you say something like 'don't worry' followed up by what is basically 'I have no respect for your belief.' And then suggest I've never Googled weak points of Christianity. I survived that Google and have my testimony for you right here.

You completely underestimate what Christians do within their faith.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

modus said:


> You don't think we talk about the weak points of Christianity in groups?
> 
> You completely underestimate what Christians do within their faith


I've never seen Christians analysing their religion, either online or IRL. If you claim some of you guys do that, then awesome, faith in humanity restored.



modus said:


> Then you say something like 'don't worry' followed up by what is basically 'I have no respect for your belief.'


Don't worry, because I won't start a debate here. That's what I meant.

And no, I actually don't have respect for Christianity. I might respect certain Christian individuals, but not their religion. 

Are we clear now? Thanks for understanding.


----------



## modus (Apr 27, 2011)

eukz said:


> Don't worry, because I won't start a debate here. That's what I meant.


Yeah, that makes no sense in the context.



eukz said:


> And no, I actually don't have respect for Christianity. I might respect certain Christian individuals, but not their religion.


Can't fault honesty.



eukz said:


> Are we clear now? Thanks for understanding.


Close enough.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

modus said:


> Yeah, that makes no sense in the context


This is computer mediated communication. I could type something, but you don't know me and you don't get the non-verbal part of my post, so yeah, sometimes it's hard to interpret the message.

In summary, I was being cynical. Read the post again.


----------



## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

_Th̭ȉs t᷂᷊hre͙ad i̞s aͮ t̗r̗a̗i̗n̗w̗r̗e̗c̗k̗ and̡̉ I'm ͮsurpr̃i͏sed it᷀ ha᷁s̈n't been dͬeͬlͬeͬtͬeͬdͬ y᷂et.̌ I'm not go͝ing ͨto̭ ̒def͠e᷂nd ảnyone be̻caus̆e̴ I ̔know deba̭ting i̠s᷿ t̾̊echni̜᷾ca̚lly not allowed i̤n here͓. I͚t̊ wo͖ͯuld be h̘y̘p̘o̘c̘r̘i̘t̘i̘c̘a̘l̘ o͙᷈̽f m̥e to j̇udge̩̋ ot̲hers fͤor th᷊͜a̙ͥt̨ because I've done it m̷yself. I will give my own opinion asͪ ̒a Chͩ̃r̈istian however; W̌orship᷿ping ̎crea̐tio̱n instead of̷̗ͤ the Creator, is f̝͍̝o̝͍̝o̝͍̝l̝͍̝i̝͍̝s̝͍̝h̝͍̝n̝͍̝e̝͍̝s̝͍̝s̝͍̝.̝͍̝

@JustALonelyHeart *Y᷃̀᷃o᷃̀᷃u᷃̀᷃.᷃̀᷃* You do͡n't ͓li̩ͦk̏̕͘eͨ peop̌le̵ͬ preaching to y᷀ou, I un᷃ders̀t̲and t̔hat̆. But all ͒I'̖ve̷ s̑᷅een y̛ou d̗͢o, is t̹hrow i͕n͕s͕u͕l͕t͕s͕ ᷾̂over and over. If ̻you cann̍ot repl͗y̮ in a civil m͍anner,̗ yͣou͖ h̬av᷊e̠͙ nọ placͧe here, pe᷆̓riod. I don'̗t care how annoy̲̦᷆͝͝ed you are̳, it's̸ not a̼p̼p̼r̼o̼p̼r̼i̼a̼t̼e̼.̼ Sẻriousl̓y,̡ what's w᷊ro᷿̔n᷾g wi̬thͤ you? Yo̟u'r̥ͯe᷊ ̧acting like an imm̧a͕tu᷾͂re 12 year ol̻̂̕d. J͍u͍s͍t͍ s͍t͍o͍p͍.͍_


----------



## Charmander (Sep 5, 2012)

Cleaned up thread again, but it will be closed if this carries on. But I think this goes for everyone- if someone insults you then just report it, don't keep the argument going by continuously quoting them. Mostly talking about Royals and JaLH.


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _Th̭ȉs t᷂᷊hre͙ad i̞s aͮ t̗r̗a̗i̗n̗w̗r̗e̗c̗k̗ and̡̉ I'm ͮsurpr̃i͏sed it᷀ ha᷁s̈n't been dͬeͬlͬeͬtͬeͬdͬ y᷂et.̌ .͍_


I agree.


----------



## JustALonelyHeart (Nov 20, 2015)

Did you people know I have seen petitions and sites and what not out there against non christians?Some even asking that we'd be punished by death.I bet you didn't know, did you?So you can take all your quotes from whatever holy book, take your salvation and preaching to those people cause they need it more than I do.Since when do I have to hide my spirituality for fear?I don't need salvation and no one can convince me that christians are people who mean well.Their religion brings out the worst that can exist in a human being, that I have seen time and time again.Proof enough for me that I'd rather have a lightning strike me right now than accept salvation from a terrible god that I don't even believe in because he doesn't exist.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Truth be told, I don't need to be named Christian to believe in God. You can believe in God and have a relationship with God without religion so to focus on God is what we believers do. And not focus on the wrong things some Christians do. That is just my point of view 

But Kalfusadon have you received any helpful answer yet? Because you asked us a question. Just curious.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Royals said:


> Truth be told, I don't need to be named Christian to believe in God. You can believe in God and have a relationship with God without religion so to focus on God is what we believers do. And not focus on the wrong things some Christians do. That is just my point of view
> 
> But Kalfusadon have you received any helpful answer yet? Because you asked us a question. Just curious.


Yes, i have, and the answer is that god does not have the power to curse me, and i am not even remotely afraid of him, i am protected by the ancient ways of my forefathers and what is happening in my life is happening and there is nothing i can do about it.


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> Yes, i have, and the answer is that god does not have the power to curse me, and i am not even remotely afraid of him, i am protected by the ancient ways of my forefathers and what is happening in my life is happening and there is nothing i can do about it.


Interesting, so you are Pagan but you believe the Christian God exists?


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

I think I misunderstood your original question. Were you asking if the Christian God would curse you or if he is capable of cursing you? I guess it doesn't matter anymore. You've come up with a conclusion.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

There isn't a Christian God...each branch of "Christianity" has their own version of God and how to worship him properly. If they all worship God differently, and if God is very specific on how you need to worship him, then all but one are doing it wrong.

I have no idea when this whole thing started, where people of different faiths are suddenly all under this term "Christianity". 

There are Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, various versions of Protestants, Anglicans, and the list goes on. To group them all together is inaccurate.

Anyways, Yahweh is definitely capable of "cursing" you, assuming Yahweh exists. Job worshiped Yahweh more than anyone, and Yahweh allowed the devil to torture him...


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

the cheat said:


> There isn't a Christian God...each branch of "Christianity" has their own version of God and how to worship him properly. If they all worship God differently, and if God is very specific on how you need to worship him, then all but one are doing it wrong.
> 
> I have no idea when this whole thing started, where people of different faiths are suddenly all under this term "Christianity".
> 
> ...


Actually each branch has their own interpretation of certain biblical rules/concepts. Like one believes in the Trinity, another doesn't, their views of God is the same. They all know God is love and Creator of all things, and all are called Christians.

The Bible describes the first Christians around 1 AD:

"And it came about that for an entire year they met with the church, and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch." (Acts 11:23-26).

Cursing is not the right word, it's more testing. Sometimes God can test you to make you stronger and grow close to Him.


----------



## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Kalfusadon said:


> Yes, i have, and the answer is that god does not have the power to curse me, and i am not even remotely afraid of him,* i am protected by the ancient ways of my forefathers and *what is happening in my life is happening and there is nothing i can do about it.


But you don't even know where your forefathers came from. Europeans came from the middle east, the oldest town in Germany was founded by an Assyrian according to tradition. For all anybody knows your ancestors could have been of the lost tribes of Israel.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Kalfusadon said:


> Yes, i have, and the answer is that god does not have the power to curse me, and i am not even remotely afraid of him, i am protected by the ancient ways of my forefathers and what is happening in my life is happening *and there is nothing i can do about it.*


Are you sure about that? (I'm seriously asking).


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

sprinter said:


> But you don't even know where your forefathers came from. Europeans came from the middle east, the oldest town in Germany was founded by an Assyrian according to tradition. For all anybody knows your ancestors could have been of the lost tribes of Israel.


Ancient finns originally came from russia long before christianity ever existed


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

eukz said:


> Are you sure about that? (I'm seriously asking).


Yes, i am sure about that


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

lilyamongthorns said:


> Interesting, so you are Pagan but you believe the Christian God exists?


I believe that there can be multiple gods, and i am not going to deny any gods existance, if i would do that i would not be any different from those conservative christians who try to deny my faith...


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Kalfusadon said:


> Yes, i am sure about that


Maybe I don't get your point, but I humbly disagree, I'm telling you from experience. I used to be a Catholic, but it didn't work out in the end. So since I didn't find any other believable religion, currently I don't believe in any of them (there are just 2 things in this universe I believe in). And trust me, over time I've had an increasing control of my life.

I'd like to keep talking about this, but I'm not sure whether this is the right place.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

eukz said:


> Maybe I don't get your point, but I humbly disagree, I'm telling you from experience. I used to be a Catholic, but it didn't work out in the end. So since I didn't find any other believable religion, currently I don't believe in any of them (there are just 2 things in this universe I believe in). And trust me, over time I've had a increasing control of my life.
> 
> I'd like to keep talking about this, but I'm not sure whether this is the right place.


My pagan faith is a life force, it helps me go forvard, and inspires me, it gives a sence of purpose that i have never had before, after i read kalevala (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/ ) i have seen the world so much differently than before, i could never be a christian because of their conservative values, and i could truly tell you stories of christians that would make your hair curl... after all i have some expirience since the second half of my family are part of this puritant christian cult that is basicly like mormons +10...


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Kalfusadon said:


> My pagan faith is a life force, it helps me go forvard, and inspires me, it gives a sence of purpose that i have never had before, after i read kalevala (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/ ) i have seen the world so much differently than before, i could never be a christian because of their conservative values, and i could truly tell you stories of christians that would make your hair curl... after all i have some expirience since the second half of my family are part of this puritant christian cult that is basicly like mormons +10...


Well, I think that both of us agree that religions like the branches of Christianity aren't the most rational. My country is mostly Catholic, so I know pretty much what they're like.

About your faith, I really don't have much to say. If you're mature enough to understand that if you want something in your life you're free to pursue it, then it's OK.

I technically believe that our lives and even the fate of the Universe have always been written. Because (vulgarly speaking) we're made of atoms, and all of atoms and subatomic particles have been in motion since the beginning. Our thoughts are electrical impulses, made of electrons, which are in motion too. So we as mortal beings currently have no total control of those electrons.

Our history is written, but we'll never know the future.


----------



## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

eukz said:


> Our history is written, but we'll never know the future.


Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean by our history is written? Like the little details of each person's life?


----------



## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Kalfusadon said:


> Ancient finns originally came from russia long before christianity ever existed


I don't doubt it was before christianity but I have doubts it was before Israel existed. I don't know much about pagan religions or what gods you believe in but I have read that the Norse gods Odin,Balder and Thor are traced to the Assyrian and Babylonian gods Adon,Baal and Thouros.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

sprinter said:


> I don't doubt it was before christianity but I have doubts it was before Israel existed. I don't know much about pagan religions or what gods you believe in but I have read that the Norse gods Odin,Balder and Thor are traced to the Assyrian and Babylonian gods Adon,Baal and Thouros.


i do not worship the norse gods, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_paganism
this is what i believe in...


----------



## meepie (Jun 20, 2010)

Even if you were Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or a Jew, these things would have happened. Sickness and suffering is a part of life. Believe for the sake of what makes you happy, true belief will never make you feel fearful. The world is love, and no 'god' will make you feel fearful.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

I believe we get too much caught up in religion, less focused on God. Believers can change or reflect a different view of God but God stays the same no matter what. Not all religions can be the truth, only one has to be. So it's about finding that one truth. Search and study all religions and gods and what they say/claim and did. As far as I know no one else than Jesus Christ has said He is the way, truth and life and only way to God, the Savior of mankind, the Son of God, and who healed the sick, performed miracles and saves people from their sins. That is why I follow Him. Other gods never helped me or answered me like God did. 

Also Scandinavia and Norhern Europe is mostly lutheran Christian I believe, mostly Finland and Norway. I believe only Sweden is the most atheist, also because of their viking history. But yes, overall Northern Europe is becoming the most atheist part of the world unfortunately because I live here


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Royals said:


> I believe we get too much caught up in religion, less focused on God. Believers can change or reflect a different view of God but God stays the same no matter what. Not all religions can be the truth, only one has to be. So it's about finding that one truth. Search and study all religions and gods and what they say/claim and did. As far as I know no one else than Jesus Christ has said He is the way, truth and life and only way to God, the Savior of mankind, the Son of God, and who healed the sick, performed miracles and saves people from their sins. That is why I follow Him. Other gods never helped me or answered me like God did.
> 
> Also Scandinavia and Norhern Europe is mostly lutheran Christian I believe, mostly Finland and Norway. I believe only Sweden is the most atheist, also because of their viking history. But yes, overall Northern Europe is becoming the most atheist part of the world unfortunately because I live here


60% of finns are agnostics/atheists and most of us see chritianity as a joke, we even have a comedicly small christian party in our goverment that is rapidly dying, and just so you know, christian values will die out in the future and there is nothing you can do about it, youth of the world sees all religions as a joke and that is where the world will go to, its a bit like those few idiots who are against gay marriage, they are fighting a battle they simply cannot win, and that is a truth, like it or not...


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> 60% of finns are agnostics/atheists and most of us see chritianity as a joke, we even have a comedicly small christian party in our goverment that is rapidly dying, and just so you know, christian values will die out in the future and there is nothing you can do about it, youth of the world sees all religions as a joke and that is where the world will go to, its a bit like those few idiots who are against gay marriage, they are fighting a battle they simply cannot win, and that is a truth, like it or not...


I certainly don't hope Christianity will decrease, it isn't in the rest of the world. But what are better alternatives? Islam? ISIS? Christianity gives hope and salvation to a lot of people. Still 2.2 billion Christians worldwide. So maybe it will decrease in Northern Europe, but the rest of the world? Don't know.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> being part of a church does not mean you believe in god or hsi outdated, hateful values, i would say that there are not even 100 million people in the world who actually, truly believe in god, hell even i am part of the church and i am not so much a christian as i am santa claus, and have you ever thought that there can be world without religion? if we abandon christianity it does not mean we will accept isis, and when it comes to islam, christianity i just as bad, it is stupid to say that christianity is somehow good and islam is bad, when christians have killed much more people and caused much more destruction that islam ever has...


But Christians are the ones getting persecuted by Muslims worlwide every year.

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/

And everytime we see a terrorist it's a muslim.
And their prophet taught to kill the non believers and was a warmaker and married a child. Jesus preached 'love thy neighbor as yourself and love your enemy'. 'Turn the other cheek', 'Forgive your bother 77 times 7' etc. So maybe religions and people make mistakes, but look at the prophets wich we believe in and compare.


----------



## Kalfusadon (Jan 21, 2014)

Royals said:


> But Christians are the ones getting persecuted by Muslims worlwide every year.
> 
> https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/
> 
> ...


all that you just said has been done by christians since they started to spread, dont try to deny historical facts, ever heard of spanish inquisition? only because it happened 500 years ago does not make it any less important than the terrorist attacks today, my point is we do not need to choose between 2 hateful, untolerant and utterly cruel faiths when we can choose something different or not choose anything at all, and as i already said, thankfully both of those hateful excuses to persecute other humans based on their beliefs, sexuality or other life choises will die.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

Kalfusadon said:


> all that you just said has been done by christians since they started to spread, dont try to deny historical facts, ever heard of spanish inquisition? only because it happened 500 years ago does not make it any less important than the terrorist attacks today, my point is we do not need to choose between 2 hateful, untolerant and utterly cruel faiths when we can choose something different or not choose anything at all, and as i already said, thankfully both of those hateful excuses to persecute other humans based on their beliefs, sexuality or other life choises will die.


Yes, any religion or ideology has caused harm. If religion dies ok, but God or gods will never die. They are eternal spiritual immaterial spirits or beings so they can't die luckily. Also longing for faith or belief, a religious feeling inside, and rituals is as old as human being so that won't die either.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

eukz said:


> Your word against History. Tough decision.


For me it's God's word against our words. God created earth for us to have history. God versus man, it's an easy win for God.


----------



## Tsuba11 (Dec 27, 2014)

The Bible specifies that being blessed or being "cursed" is determined by our own choices. God will not just curse you for no reason. Living according to the flesh (the sin nature / the nature of sin) will result in a curse (i.e., "death.") Living uprightly by faith in Yeshua (Sorry I can't use the name "Jesus" anymore seeing how the Latin definition for it is "Earth Pig." - Yeshua means "Salvation.") will constitute in a life full of blessing (spiritual prosperity and abundance.) I think it is important for us to realize that it is we ourselves that need to take accountability for the bad things that go on in our lives. Paul made it clear in his Epistles that illness and death came about by people simply not discerning what Yeshua's Body in Sacrifice stood for. A lot of these people would take communion with their friends and family simply because they wanted to be fed. They did not participate in the Body and Blood of Yeshua for the purpose of doing such in "remembrance of Him." Sin will birth illness, but illness, despite being a consequence for sin is not life and soul threatening. A person living with a mental health illness can be Saved as long as he or she has repented of his sins and trusts wholeheartedly in Yeshua. The illness (which I am using in place of "feeling cursed") may never go away completely due to the consequences for sin, but the Salvation of the soul is still accessible to ALL who Trust in Yeshua for the Resurrection and Glorifying of the Body.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Royals said:


> For me it's God's word against our words. God created earth for us to have history. God versus man, it's an easy win for God.


I'm talking to you, not to God. He's never said anything to me, so you're not making any sense. All you're doing now is attracting the mods.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

eukz said:


> I'm talking to you, not to God. He's never said anything to me, so you're not making any sense. All you're doing now is attracting the mods.


Have you ever talked to Him? Or prayed to Him? Talk to Him instead of me then.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Royals said:


> Have you ever talked to Him? Or prayed to Him? Talk to Him instead of me then.


Yes I have. I was raised as a Catholic. While I was religious, my life was always difficult. I just became non-religious 5 years ago, and currently my life is relatively peaceful.

Right now it'd be ridiculous for me to "talk" to him, so I'm talking to you.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

eukz said:


> Yes I have. I was raised as a Catholic. While I was religious, my life was always difficult. I just became non-religious 5 years ago, and currently my life is relatively peaceful.
> 
> Right now it'd be ridiculous for me to "talk" to him, so I'm talking to you.


For me life with God is much greater and easier. So when He never said anything to you that's no my fault. I can't speak for God.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Royals said:


> So when He never said anything to you that's no my fault.


So God simply decides not to communicate with everyone? He just chooses? There you have it. One of the reasons Christianity is dying.

By the way I never blamed you for my problems. How rude.


----------



## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

eukz said:


> So God simply decides not to communicate with everyone? He just chooses? There you have it. One of the reasons Christianity is dying.
> 
> By the way I never blamed you for my problems. How rude.


Unfortunately it is always man's problem, maybe not enough faith or conviction, too much doubt or unbelief, too many expectations, or whatever because God always hears and answers. We have to be willing.

If we truelly want to be saved we have to repent of our sins, turn from sin, and follow God. We cannot expect to have a relationship with God if we lie to Him, keep on sinning or live in sin. And we have to be willing to wait and be patient until God answers. Our times are not His. If we get impatient and give up we never have the chance to hear from Him. That is the reason why believing isn't that easy, it takes a lot of dedication, trust, faith, patience, obedience etc. Not believing is much easier since you can do whatever you want and not be responisble for it.


----------



## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

^ Fair enough dude. I think we got to a point where our morals clash, and this isn't the place for that debate, we all know that.


----------

