# Why do people kill animals?



## MobiusX

torture them, physically abuse them, kill them, eat them, that's disgusting, some idiot just posted a video of dogs being killed with sledgehammers on facebook. I feel like chopping off those people's heads and feeding them to dogs or better yet don't chop off their heads and simply tap them into a cage with a huge aggressive hungry lion. Now I'm going to watch videos of lions eating people on youtube to make myself feel better for the other video I saw. I remember watching a video on the news of 3 Texas men found dead after they didn't return back from duck hunting. I LOVE IT. Now those ducks are safer without those cowards. I think their dead bodies should be fed to tigers and lions and other animals.


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## Karsten

Because people are ****ed? You could ask a million of these questions and the answer will always be: 

Because we're just a bunch of apes on a rock dancing off beat to some really strange celestial tune.


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## firewatch93

Wild animals because they're delicious.

Pet animals because people are evil.


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## MobiusX

firewatch93 said:


> Wild animals because they're delicious.
> 
> Pet animals because people are evil.


all animals deserve to live just like humans, a lot of times when there are school shootings they always put the profiles of the victims who were killed and in many of these incidents a few of them turn out to be animal hunters, they even have pictures of them hunting or fishing, etc... I like the fact these animals are safer now without those people. It's called KARMA. And I don't support school shootings. I am against killing animals. It's still karma.


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## firewatch93

MobiusX said:


> all animals deserve to live just like humans, a lot of times when there are school shootings they always put the profiles of the victims who were killed and in many of these incidents a few of them turn out to be animal hunters, they even have pictures of them hunting or fishing, etc... I like the fact these animals are safer now without those people. It's called KARMA. And I don't support school shootings. I am against killing animals. It's still karma.


My stomach disagrees


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## Kevin001

Protein bro.....I tried going vegan...lost muscle mass so damn fast. Love my meat bro.


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## Overdrive

Le paté c'est bon


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## tehuti88

I think you've posted about this before more than once. You seem to come across an awful lot of animal cruelty videos. :| I don't go *looking* for such stuff, therefore I don't have to see it. And if something like that did pop up in some search results, *I wouldn't click on/watch it*. If I were able to, I would try to *report it*.

Are you deliberately looking for such videos...? You realize that when you view them, you're creating a demand for them, right...? I hope you at least report them...after you're done watching them. :|


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## TheInvisibleHand

I'm more concerned about people killing people.


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## MobiusX

tehuti88 said:


> I think you've posted about this before more than once. You seem to come across an awful lot of animal cruelty videos. :| I don't go *looking* for such stuff, therefore I don't have to see it. And if something like that did pop up in some search results, *I wouldn't click on/watch it*. If I were able to, I would try to *report it*.
> 
> Are you deliberately looking for such videos...? You realize that when you view them, you're creating a demand for them, right...? I hope you at least report them...after you're done watching them. :|


the only animal cruelty videos I've seen is when someone uploads it and posts it up for people to see like youtube or the news or facebook. I saw a video on youtube of some kids killing rabbits with a knife like it's normal. This is what the adults are teaching them, that it's okay to kill animals. It's not okay. I think if humans are going to kill they should only kill each other. There is absolutely NO REASON to get animals involved. Respect animals. They have been on this Earth longer than humans. You don't have to watch physical abuse of animals. You ALREADY know it's going on. Every single time you see meat you should be reminded WHAT the animal had to go throw just for some pathetic human to eat a hamburger or hot dog. No clown, I don't go to watch them. I have watched them years ago for slaughter houses and guess what. I should these videos to my sibling and now he is vegetarian AND his son is vegetarian. His son never ate meat in his life and he's going to be 4 years old so something positive came out of him watching a PETA video. Idiots like to kill animals and make videos about it and has been someone on this site who said she enjoys watching this kind of stuff. I only watched it because someone posted it on Facebook. I think it would be strange for me to actually watch videos of animals being physically abused, tortured and killed, unless it was some kind of PETA or animal rights video exposing the truth to the people. I reported many of these videos on youtube and they are still up with millions of views. There are videos of Donald Trump's sons killing birds for fun with guns. The problem is society normalizes the killing of animals to the point that people can't distinguish what is right and wrong when it comes to how we treat animals.

I take care of animals. I have a bird station in my backyard. I can see it right outside my bedroom window and it's close. This is where birds come to eat bird seeds and drink water since I have a bird feeder and water feeder plus I have two birds living in a bird house platform I bought for them. I think it's cute. I even stuff it with some sterilized natural coconut fiber used for bird nest just so they will feel comfortable. I have seen them play with this fiber inside their bird house platform and I think that's cute. I also bought a bird house they can go in when it gets cold. I think birds are cute. That's my favorite animal. So when I see an idiot killing, physically abusing animals, that's a negative reaction I will get. When I see the brainless truck driver with crates filled with crowded chickens I get pissed off. Whenever I come across these videos they are used as a reminder to me what is really going on in this world. Just walk into a McDonald's or any fast food restaurant and look around. You will see parents with children smiling and laughing and kids playing. Oh how nice is that, I don't think so. Look what they have on their plates-- meat. What did it take? KILLING. What goes inside the brain of someone who is killing these innocent, defenseless animals? Are they having happy thoughts while they are cutting their throats? That's not normal. Or are they expressing anger and enjoying it? That's also not normal. So when these animal killers get killed themselves it's a blessing, it's karma but also it means they can NO LONGER kill animals anymore. Just leave them alone and let them live.


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## Omni-slash

Kevin001 said:


> Protein bro.....I tried going vegan...lost muscle mass so damn fast. Love my meat bro.


That's because you can't plan a diet. Nothing to do with veganism.


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## harrison

Kevin001 said:


> Protein bro.....I tried going vegan...lost muscle mass so damn fast. Love my meat bro.


That's funny because my boy went pretty much vegan I think recently. (his girlfriend is ) He also started going back to the gym and he put on quite a bit of weight - really started to bulk up. His girl cooks him lots of vegetarian stuff with very high protein apparently.

Now he's up in Sth Korea and is starting to eat a bit of seafood again I think - he says it's almost impossible to be completely veggo up there.


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## Sabk

Afreen88 said:


> Good eatin'.
> 
> I don't understand people who feel close to animals/pets at all. ****ing bizarre. I mean, what do you talk about?


Pets are great listeners. Talk and talk, and they'll just listen. Train your dog well enough, it'll bark or moan like it's responding. Pretty hilarious.


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## WillYouStopDave

What would we do with all of them if we didn't?


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## Kevin001

Siegfried said:


> That's because you can't plan a diet. Nothing to do with veganism.





don said:


> That's funny because my boy went pretty much vegan I think recently. (his girlfriend is ) He also started going back to the gym and he put on quite a bit of weight - really started to bulk up. His girl cooks him lots of vegetarian stuff with very high protein apparently.
> 
> Now he's up in Sth Korea and is starting to eat a bit of seafood again I think - he says it's almost impossible to be completely veggo up there.


Yeah much harder to build muscle on a plant diet though.


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## sad1231234

Well animals have a very low level of consciousness. I mean i dont know really, if people dont eat meat then they get weak and they miss out on a lot of food. If they do eat meat, then animals die. I guess since we are the most powerful/intelligent species, we have established and continued the practice of killing/eating animals for millenia. The world is messed up.


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## Cassoulet94

sad1231234 said:


> Well animals have a very low level of consciousness. I mean i dont know really, if people dont eat meat then they get weak and they miss out on a lot of food. If they do eat meat, then animals die. I guess since we are the most powerful/intelligent species, we have established and continued the practice of killing/eating animals for millenia. The world is messed up.





sad1231234 said:


> Well animals have a very low level of consciousness. I mean i dont know really, if people dont eat meat then they get weak and they miss out on a lot of food. If they do eat meat, then animals die. I guess since we are the most powerful/intelligent species, we have established and continued the practice of killing/eating animals for millenia. The world is messed up.


You can eat no meat and not getting weak. Eating healthy while being vegan is pretty hard, but it's easier when you are vegetarian, you can eat dairy products, eggs and such. At worst you just have to check iron levels and stuff like that and supplement if you have defieciencies but it's very possible not to have any. I am vegetarian and I didn't lose mass since I stop eating meat, nor do I have deficiencies.

You don't necessarily have to be vegetarian but in the West people eat way too much meat (like once a day and sometimes at every meal). Not only is it not healthy, but it's preety bad for the planet. Beef is the worst in that regard, while chicken tend to be ok.

Eating meat 3-4 times a week is usually enough to be ok with protein. Few people in the west suffer from a lack of protein.

Granted we are the more intelligent specie, but we differ from other species in the sense that most of our meat is not obtained by hunting. We give birth to animals to eat them. It's not necessarily a problem but what is bothersome is that our consumption model lead use to produce an enormous quantity of meat, of which a significant part is not consummed eaten, it is wasted. Furthermore farmed animals are equal when it comes to living conditions. For example while organic chicken usually have a decent amount of space and can access outdoor, cheap chicke like you can find in fast food or buy at discount prices in supermarkets have horrendous lives. Granted a chicken does not have the same level of consciouness as us but they still have emotions and can feel physical and psychological pain, so it remains a very cruel thing to do to inflict them such a thing. But it's not all about meat: eggs and milk industries are also concerned. Unhappily people with modest income cannot necessarily afford organic meat. Part of the response is to eat less but better quality (wheter you rich or not). Of course if you really are poor it can't work.


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## 870945

Some people don't value them as much as humans for an example. I can admit that I don't do that to All animals. Only those big enough and those that I don't see as more negative than positive. My guess one of the reasons.


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## Cassoulet94

sad1231234 said:


> Well animals have a very low level of consciousness. I mean i dont know really, if people dont eat meat then they get weak and they miss out on a lot of food. If they do eat meat, then animals die. I guess since we are the most powerful/intelligent species, we have established and continued the practice of killing/eating animals for millenia. The world is messed up.


Also some animals like monkeys have high levels on consciousness and we can't say human beings have been kind to them.


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## Cashel

For their tasty flesh.


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## Cassoulet94

The Lone Mario said:


> Some people don't value them as much as humans for an example. I can admit that I don't do that to All animals. Only those big enough and those that I don't see as more negative than positive. My guess one of the reasons.


You can value more a human being and still not caution the horrible living conditions of animals that industrial farming often involve.


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## Hollo

doe deer said:


> normal people kill them for food


We eat to survive, or at least that's been our natural inclination. We're not an obligate carnivore like predatory cats, though. I think that factory farming and our growing understanding that animals feel and think very similarly to us is complicating the morality of meat-eating as a lifestyle choice. That, and there are billions of people that believe that animals have souls adds to the dilemma.


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## Cassoulet94

Hollo said:


> doe deer said:
> 
> 
> 
> normal people kill them for food
> 
> 
> 
> We eat to survive, or at least that's been our natural inclination. We're not an obligate carnivore like predatory cats, though. I think that factory farming and our growing understanding that animals feel and think very similarly to us is complicating the morality of meat-eating as a lifestyle choice. That, and there are billions of people that believe that animals have souls adds to the dilemma.
Click to expand...

 Billions of people who think animals have souls ? Who ? I mean most people from india don't eat meat for religiois reason but apart from that it does not seem to me that the recent increase in vegetarianism in developped contry has anything to do with spirituality.


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## StoneSean

Op, do you have any idea how violent animals are? Go to a lion and try to be polite to it, it will end with you getting eaten. Why do you have sympathize for someone who wants to kill you?


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## Hollo

Cassoulet94 said:


> Billions of people who think animals have souls ? Who ? I mean most people from india don't eat meat for religiois reason but apart from that it does not seem to me that the recent increase in vegetarianism in developped contry has anything to do with spirituality.


Hindu and Buddhist doctrines teach that animals house souls, that some are sacred to certain gods or deities, and all lives are reincarnated up or down after they live (the best or worst they can). Now I know that a lot of people don't practice those beliefs, but it's worth mentioning because it's part of their cultural consciousness. Yeah, it's definitely apples and oranges to compare the two. You could say the green movement/environmentalism/animal rights in the West resembles spirituality, though


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## Cassoulet94

Hollo said:


> Cassoulet94 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billions of people who think animals have souls ? Who ? I mean most people from india don't eat meat for religiois reason but apart from that it does not seem to me that the recent increase in vegetarianism in developped contry has anything to do with spirituality.
> 
> 
> 
> Hindu and Buddhist doctrines teach that animals house souls, that some are sacred to certain gods or deities, and all lives are reincarnated up or down after they live (the best or worst they can). Now I know that a lot of people don't practice those beliefs, but it's worth mentioning because it's part of their cultural consciousness. Yeah, it's definitely apples and oranges to compare the two. You could say the green movement/environmentalism/animal rights in the West resembles spirituality, though
Click to expand...

I would not say it resembles spirituality. Why do you say that

Yeah sure hindou don't eat meat but I was talking about the recent development of vegetarianism in the west.


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## Cassoulet94

doe deer said:


> Hollo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We eat to survive, or at least that's been our natural inclination. We're not an obligate carnivore like predatory cats, though. I think that factory farming and our growing understanding that animals feel and think very similarly to us is complicating the morality of meat-eating as a lifestyle choice. That, and there are billions of people that believe that animals have souls adds to the dilemma.
> 
> 
> 
> sure, we're not like wild predatory cats but that doesn't mean we don't need meat. whether or not animals have souls is irrelevant, animals eat other animals, hunting for food is a natural process for many species. of course i'm not talking about factory farming and breeding animals just for food because there are obviously many issues with it and we generally don't need to consume that much meat.
Click to expand...

Yeah but an overwhelming majority of the meat we eat is from factory farming.

Also, while I don't preach vegetarianism, I think the argument of something being ok because it is "natural" should be questionned. It seems thay according to your logic a behavior is natural if it is common in non human species.

But why what is natural for non human beings should also be considered as natural for us ? After all we are, by nature, far more intelligent than any other species; by nature, we are able to constantly learn new behaviors and to pass that knowledge to our children -to sum up, we have the ability to build a culture-. So from there we could perfectly consider that anything we are able do is "natural" to human beings.

That is why I don't really put much value in this concept. It can make sense if you are religious and think that god has create nature with a fixed order, but otherwise... not only is this concept very vague and subjective, but it can also prevent progress since it can be a pretext to keep on doing questionable things just because they are supposed to be "natural". Should we justify a behavior by saying that it is natural because other species do it ? Can't we have our own standards since we are, more than any other species, able to understand the suffering of other beings ? And when we have the cognitive ability to transform our behaviors like no other species ?


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## Ominous Indeed

I eat meat, but I watched this debate sometime back. I thought the Gary Yourofsky had some interesting arguments.. It's definitely worth a look.


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## Ms kim

firewatch93 said:


> My stomach disagrees


Mine too  interesting how someone can defend the rights of animals but would like to harm other humans. Speaking of meat, I wouldn't mind filling my tummy with some lovely, well seasoned, finger licking jerk pork. Wow that would be really great! Sorry if this offends anyone...well actually I'm not.


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## Cassoulet94

Ms kim said:


> interesting how someone can defend the rights of animals but would like to harm other humans.


Yeah, that's weird.

On the other hand you come here not with the intention to debate seriously but just to laugh at the convictions of others. Not that I am shocked because so many people do that thinking that are funny and original, but I am always surprised by people who seem proud to say something stupid.


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## Cassoulet94

doe deer said:


> i said i disagree with factory farming.
> 
> it's natural because it often occurs in nature and we are a part of it, believe it or not.
> 
> i really see no point in this either, you're getting philosophical while that's not my intention at all. we are omnivores, we can eat meat - my point. humans have always modified nature, this is a part of it. if you're thinking about progress such as stopping eating meat alltogether then you should also consider the ways in which it would affect the life of humans and our coexistence with other species. as ugly as it may be, the factory farming thing and all the ways in which we treat animals could be seen as a part of our culture, unfortunately. however, i am simply talking about killing for food (no torture, no industry etc.) unlike you, i don't see eating animals as "doing questionable things".


This topic has a lot to do about philosophy and ethics. Maybe you did not realize it but by telling your opinion about what is "natural" and about how we should behave you were very much expressing a philosophical opinion.

I'm sorry I challenged your view and invited you think, I'm sure it must have been traumatizing for you. I won't do it again I promise.

Also I wonder if you trully read what I wrote because you didn't seem to really understand my post.

Good day.


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## Cassoulet94

doe deer said:


> lol, salty. good to see you have no problem with being rude to us fellow humans.


His message wasn't so polite either. But yeah, I don't see a problem with being rude from time to time. It's not like it's hurting anyone.


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## Hollo

doe deer said:


> sure, we're not like wild predatory cats but that doesn't mean we don't need meat. whether or not animals have souls is irrelevant, animals eat other animals, hunting for food is a natural process for many species. of course i'm not talking about factory farming and breeding animals just for food because there are obviously many issues with it and we generally don't need to consume that much meat.


But that's what I'm trying to point out about animal souls: I'm not arguing we need to recognize that they do have souls (or that we do, for that matter), just that we assign their lives less value (commoditize) simply because they're food stuff. Compare that to Western outrage at Asian countries that still cook with dog meat, or really anywhere outside the US that cooks with horse meat. Certain kinds of animals inhabit this idealized emotional landscape in our minds (think puppies & kittens, cats & dogs, animal that fall into a pet category) where we are parents to our more-or-less devoted furry, feathered, or scaly children. The psychology goes deeper than that, but in general, the point I'm trying to make is that more than ever, people are recognizing the origin of human behavior in animals - not just projecting (or reflecting) anthropomorphic ideals - through a mixed bag of biological science and I suspect just living with and sharing close emotional relationships with domesticated pets. To echo @Cassoulet94, while I agree that we should definitely eat less meat, we can't justify producing, farming, and eating meat indefinitely just because our (honestly kind of cannibalistic) ancestors dragged down mammoths as speartip. We can change, maybe even evolve...


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## Chris S W

Some people enjoy killing animals. Most people, who kill animals, kill them for profit. It does very much sadden me, the way people are, the way the world is. I've seen some horrible videos of lambs being hung upside down and having their throats slit. That's something I would not do, but it would seem that most people would.


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## Ms kim

Cassoulet94 said:


> Yeah, that's weird.
> 
> On the other hand you come here not with the intention to debate seriously but just to laugh at the convictions of others. Not that I am shocked because so many people do that thinking that are funny and original, but I am always surprised by people who seem proud to say something stupid.


 Thanks for your comments. I really appreciate it.


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## Ms kim

Cassoulet94I just wanted to say that your intelligent posts that I've been reading has truly inspired me. And though it is my nature and i cannot help being stupid, I've decided to stop eating meat. The meat that I'm currently eating at this time while I type this reply to you will be my last. Promise.


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## MobiusX




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## sad1231234

Cassoulet94 said:


> You can eat no meat and not getting weak. Eating healthy while being vegan is pretty hard, but it's easier when you are vegetarian, you can eat dairy products, eggs and such. At worst you just have to check iron levels and stuff like that and supplement if you have defieciencies but it's very possible not to have any. I am vegetarian and I didn't lose mass since I stop eating meat, nor do I have deficiencies.
> 
> You don't necessarily have to be vegetarian but in the West people eat way too much meat (like once a day and sometimes at every meal). Not only is it not healthy, but it's preety bad for the planet. Beef is the worst in that regard, while chicken tend to be ok.
> 
> Eating meat 3-4 times a week is usually enough to be ok with protein. Few people in the west suffer from a lack of protein.
> 
> Granted we are the more intelligent specie, but we differ from other species in the sense that most of our meat is not obtained by hunting. We give birth to animals to eat them. It's not necessarily a problem but what is bothersome is that our consumption model lead use to produce an enormous quantity of meat, of which a significant part is not consummed eaten, it is wasted. Furthermore farmed animals are equal when it comes to living conditions. For example while organic chicken usually have a decent amount of space and can access outdoor, cheap chicke like you can find in fast food or buy at discount prices in supermarkets have horrendous lives. Granted a chicken does not have the same level of consciouness as us but they still have emotions and can feel physical and psychological pain, so it remains a very cruel thing to do to inflict them such a thing. But it's not all about meat: eggs and milk industries are also concerned. Unhappily people with modest income cannot necessarily afford organic meat. Part of the response is to eat less but better quality (wheter you rich or not). Of course if you really are poor it can't work.


Yeah but thats just the way life is, people eat meat because animals are weaker than them and less intelligent. And i guess because people can. I mean i wouldnt mind living in a world where people eat no meat but since millions of animals are killed annually for food, it doesnt really make much of a difference to turn to vegetarianism.


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## MobiusX

if people want meat they should just leave animals alone and eat each other instead


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## lackofflife

this questions should be asked like this 
why do animals kill other animals? answer/because they are animals


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## sabbath9

Countdown to Extinction by Megadeth, great album and great song



> *Megadeth Lyrics*
> 
> *
> "Countdown To Extinction"*
> 
> _
> [Mustaine - Ellefson - Menza - Friedman:]_
> 
> Endangered species, caged in fright
> Shot in cold blood, no chance to fight
> The stage is set, now pay the price
> An ego boost, don't think twice
> Technology, the battle's unfair
> You pull the hammer without a care
> Squeeze the trigger that makes you 'Man'
> Pseudo-safari, the hunt is canned
> The hunt is canned
> 
> All are gone, all but one
> No contest, nowhere to run
> No more left, only one
> This is it; this is the Countdown to Extinction
> 
> Tell the truth, you wouldn't dare
> The skin and trophy, oh so rare
> Silence speaks louder than words
> Ignore the guilt and take your turn
> Liars' anagram is "lairs"
> Man you were never even there
> Killed a few feet from the cages
> Point blank, you're so courageous
> So courageous
> 
> All are gone, all but one
> No contest, nowhere to run
> No more left, only one
> This is it; this is the Countdown to Extinction
> 
> _
> [Solo - Friedman:]_
> 
> "One hour from now
> Another species of life form
> Will disappear off the face of the planet
> Forever, and the rate is accelerating"
> 
> _
> [Solo - Mustaine & Friedman:]_
> 
> All are gone, all but one
> No contest, nowhere to run
> No more left, only one
> This is it; this is the Countdown to Extinction


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## Alpha Tauri

I love beef. Cows are delicious. As well chicken, pigs, and fish.


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## CNikki

I remember when stumbling upon a video of a bunch of men abusing and slaughtering cows for the first time. Bawled my eyes out and had a hard time sleeping that night.


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## harrison

Hollo said:


> *Hindu and Buddhist doctrines teach that animals house souls, *that some are sacred to certain gods or deities, and all lives are reincarnated up or down after they live (the best or worst they can). Now I know that a lot of people don't practice those beliefs, but it's worth mentioning because it's part of their cultural consciousness. Yeah, it's definitely apples and oranges to compare the two. You could say the green movement/environmentalism/animal rights in the West resembles spirituality, though


Just noticed this and was about to post about something I saw recently on TV.

It was a show about how a lot of dogs are killed in Bali ( a Hindu island ) - to make sate. One guy said that in Hinduism the dog is held as sacred and then they show other guys shooting them to sell the meat for food. (obviously not as sacred as they think) That is really ****ed up - as people say nowadays.

I've been to Bali many times - lots of dogs there that are not looked after at all. Just left to roam around and fend for themselves. Very sad they have to eat them though, could at least just put them out of their misery. Have seen they also do this in Thailand too - a Buddhist country.


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## harrison

MobiusX said:


> if people want meat they should just leave animals alone and eat each other instead


Chimpanzees do this. At least they will catch and tear apart one of the young of an opposing tribe of chimps. Maybe some sort of domination thing or just to increase protein.

We aren't that far removed really. Some more than others.


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## harrison

Recently watched a show about living longer - and vegetarians win. A group of people in Lomalinda (they are Seventh Day Adventists and vegetarians) often live well into their 90's and more. My son is vegetarian now and it started me looking at it - it makes sense, although I do still like a bit of meat sometimes.


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## blue2

For meat, I have a pet cow and I tell it everyday its just 1000 beefburgers on legs to me, but it's like stfu bro ...it knows I don't have the heart to kill it now :cry.....but animal abuse is a different story theres no call for it ...


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## Twilightforce

It's the food chain. No need to get all butt hurt.


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## Carlfrukt

I can relate a lot. I hate how cruel humans are to other animals. I went vegan a few years ago.


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## MobiusX

Carlfrukt said:


> I can relate a lot. I hate how cruel humans are to other animals. I went vegan a few years ago.


I been vegetarian since I was around like 16, going to be 33 soon. It's too hard to be vegan for me. I found mayonnaise without eggs, I drink almond milk, but the problem is the cream cheese (I like bagels) and sandwich cheese, and other cheeses plus sour cream, too many foods I won't be able to eat which will make it impossible for me to eat my meals. I used to eat egg and cheese sandwiches but I stopped that and change it to hash brown sandwiches but still with sandwich cheese, they have vegan eggs but I tried it and it takes too much time to make and every time I did it I didn't do it right (don't know how to cook).


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## MobiusX

don said:


> Recently watched a show about living longer - and vegetarians win. A group of people in Lomalinda (they are Seventh Day Adventists and vegetarians) often live well into their 90's and more. My son is vegetarian now and it started me looking at it - it makes sense, although I do still like a bit of meat sometimes.


I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist. I don't believe Ellen G White is really a prophet though and plus the bible supports the killing and eating of animals. The only famous people I know that were seventh day adventist are Ben Carson, Brian McKnight, Busta Rhymes was raised a Seventh Day Adventist but he got out of that, reminds me of a lyric he wrote,

Federal cases cause enough bodies, end up in medical places
In they blood finding them chemical traces
Leaving special investigators going through skeptical phases
While we getting money the decimal changes
I was a Seventh Day Adventist apprentice
Now I strike with a vengeance
Blowing the door right up off of the hinges


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## WinterDave

Men who eat red meat have power in their cojones....

Women can sense a meat eater, and are drawn to them....

Been that way since caveman days....

Gotta be a hunter-gatherer....

Hunt, kill, and cook animals....

Women stay in the cave cleaning and taking care of babies....

A little red meat, a little yayo, and I'm hungry like the wolf....


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## harrison

MobiusX said:


> *I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist.* I don't believe Ellen G White is really a prophet though and plus the bible supports the killing and eating of animals. The only famous people I know that were seventh day adventist are Ben Carson, Brian McKnight, Busta Rhymes was raised a Seventh Day Adventist but he got out of that, reminds me of a lyric he wrote,
> 
> Federal cases cause enough bodies, end up in medical places
> In they blood finding them chemical traces
> Leaving special investigators going through skeptical phases
> While we getting money the decimal changes
> I was a Seventh Day Adventist apprentice
> Now I strike with a vengeance
> Blowing the door right up off of the hinges


I was raised one too Mobius - my Mum was one. (not my Dad - he was a real estate agent. I don't think they're usually very religious) 

They're good people - in they're own way, but I'm afraid once I got to about 16 they're beliefs started to sound pretty silly. We were never actually vegetarians back then, but nowadays I don't eat much meat - mainly just because of my son and for health reasons, it's healthier apparently.

Hope you're doing okay over there mate.


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## SofaKing

All this righteous indignation and @MobiusX isn't even a full vegan? How can you let cows be exploited for your selfish love of cream cheese?

Get Tofutti brand cheese instead.

To be honest, you're sounding a bit hypocritical, now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## MobiusX

SofaKing said:


> All this righteous indignation and @MobiusX isn't even a full vegan? How can you let cows be exploited for your selfish love of cream cheese?
> 
> Get Tofutti brand cheese instead.
> 
> To be honest, you're sounding a bit hypocritical, now.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


I dont eat animals or kill them and I especially dont enjoy physically abusing animals like a few on this site have admitted to doing and enjoying it. Thats disgusting.


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## SofaKing

MobiusX said:


> I dont eat animals or kill them and I especially dont enjoy physically abusing animals like a few on this site have admitted to doing and enjoying it. Thats disgusting.


You encourage the industrial farming complex by consuming dairy products. By extension, you support the possibility that animals suffer just to produce for you.

As such, alive for milk or dead for meat, still the same.

Don't troll your condemnation of others, here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## MobiusX

SofaKing said:


> You encourage the industrial farming complex by consuming dairy products. By extension, you support the possibility that animals suffer just to produce for you.
> 
> As such, alive for milk or dead for meat, still the same.
> 
> Don't troll your condemnation of others, here.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


You sound like an idiot VeganGains disputed a couple of weeks ago. Even vegans contribute to some suffering of animals since pesticide is used in agriculture. I chose to contribute Less suffering to animals than meat eaters and animal killers and thats all that matters. I already drink almond milk and mayo with no eggs, the problem is not many vegan foods being sold to replace other foods.


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## The Library of Emma

I have killed small injured animals before to put them out of their suffering. If they can't be helped and can't survive in the wild the only kind alternative is to shorten their pain.

I find the people who are too squeamish to do this to be immensely frustrating. They can't take their feelings out of the equation long enough to do the right thing. Blood's a bit hard to look at? Imagine how much pain the animal is in. You're not even going to check if it's alive?

Maybe they're just more gentlehearted than I am, but sheesh... :sigh :bash

Not the way this thread is going, I know, but that title brought back some memories.


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## SofaKing

MobiusX said:


> You sound like an idiot VeganGains disputed a couple of weeks ago. Even vegans contribute to some suffering of animals since pesticide is used in agriculture. I chose to contribute Less suffering to animals than meat eaters and animal killers and thats all that matters. I already drink almond milk and mayo with no eggs, the problem is not many vegan foods being sold to replace other foods.


Yup....I sound like the idiot...lmao.

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## MobiusX

SofaKing said:


> Yup....I sound like the idiot...lmao.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


At least you recognize it, that's good.


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## naes

Kevin001 said:


> Protein bro.....I tried going vegan...lost muscle mass so damn fast. Love my meat bro.


What a vain answer though.


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## WinterDave

A couple of cheeseburgers, a few Budweisers, and then it's time to go cow tipping.... :clap


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## Kevin001

naes said:


> What a vain answer though.


Yeah first thing that jumped in my head lol. I know some vegans have muscles too just harder IMO.


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## kageri

How people can purposefully cause excessive pain or distress to animals with no need I do not know. I have raised my own food. I know it's a little bit of a tangent situation but I have dogs, cats, reptiles now, and have had various exotics that needed animal protein and fat. They have to eat. I could feed them crappy, overpriced commercial food with animals raised in large numbers as efficiently as possible and killed as efficiently as possible to the extent of the law which is pretty loose for some animals. The vids make the rounds in spring of the rooster chick conveyors that end in a grinder they go to alive, usually feet first, and that is part of the chicken in any pet food you buy. The rest is probably battery hens. The ones kept in tiny cages to produce as many eggs as possible and then killed within a couple years before production drops off. The labels for "free range" and so forth is a load of crap. They aren't actually out on pastures or have any more space but are packed in buildings taking out their frustration on each other while being allowed to see a little daylight and dirt so they can be considered "cage free". It's so bad that people who actually have free range chickens have gone to using "pasture raised" as a label on their farm raised eggs or meat to separate from the improperly defined labels of what is sold in stores because "organic", "free range", and "cage free" don't mean a better life or you are supporting anything better than the cheaper products without a fancy label. It's the same with many other animals if you don't go to the source and know exactly how the person is meeting the requirements. Hopefully surpassing them. 

You can be as vegan as you want but if you own many common pets they aren't and it's unhealthy and to me flat out neglect, possibly abuse, to force them to be so. Therefore, I have animals that are raised the best I can with space, cleanliness, enrichment, and interaction. Then they are killed as quickly as possible with as little stress as possible so brain signals cease before they know anything is going on. What I buy meets the same standards. Those of us raising our own meat or feeders discuss frequently the issues of both mental and physical discomfort as well as when cost effective surpasses acceptable quality of life. It is very tricky to find safe places for these discussions though and some forums that got popular have been repeatedly handed off or shut down because the owners/admins get tired of the death threats and so forth. 

To me it is just the way the world is. There are carnivores. Something has to die for them to live. I'm not going to say you can make death painless but it's far quicker, less stressful, and less painful if I do it than in the wild, directly by the carnivore even in controlled situations, or by mass producers that can't give individual attention, and they live a better life until then. So I can't understand abuse but I can completely kill something as necessary for food. It's really something you have to see and face head on directly while going through debates of what a society separated from it's food sources has taught you but it's such a basic part of the whole world. My husband started out unable to see the meat in the freezer fully broken down to just a skinned leg and now can pull out whole prey for the dogs that might have even had a name and/or been fed treats by him to feed to the carnivores because he's seen how their life goes and realized how the meat in the kibble gets there. He has no intention of not owning dogs or probably cats and wants more exotic things. 

The heart of the matter to me is how we acquire food and not that we do it. Grocery store meat is so disgusting anyway from the attempt to make it cheaper. I don't think I've eaten any in 2 years and barely for 5 years except in some products. We get our straight animal meat or products from small farmers, local hunters, fish our own, etc.... I can't avoid it with restaurant food while still eating meat without it costing a fortune but it wouldn't take 100% shunning of meat for society to change how they raise and butcher many meat animals. Avoiding most common sources for better ones that are just as easy to find and don't actually cost that much more, if at all depending how you buy, would send a message to producers that people want quality over quantity. 

People also really need to actually do the tiniest bit of research into the labels they believe or the laws they pass while having no idea how that animal actually reacts to what they think should be a better living situation. I find those most against any particular purpose of keeping animals are often the most ignorant about animals, their behavior, and their care. Many ways of raising animals and butchering them that people are against didn't just evolve for money but also because it really does reduce the animals lost to injury and their stress levels because it's just not possible to raise them on a commercial level the way people want with current technology and demand. The entire livestock economy of California almost crashed and would have taken egg, chicken, and many beef product availability nationwide with them because people were trying to pass laws farmers wouldn't be able to meet and still have people buy their product. I'm sure many would love to upgrade to those laws but they can't and make a living. If your only reason is the morality of how animals are raised and not the concept of death by itself you can make more impact buying from those that try to produce quality with as high of quality of life as possible than attempting to go vegan. Even if you do decide to be vegan and against taking all life, rather than condemn everyone eating meat you can learn how to inform those that choose to do so about what the labels and laws actually mean and better ways to promote improved farming of both animals and crops while staying within their budget. You will not make the world or even one country vegan any time soon. You can make the world be creative though, and humans can get very creative with a good reason, to find ways to do things better. The negative impacts could be greatly reduced far easier than the entire practice of using animal products could be eliminated in the near future. If you want to change the world you have to figure out how to see other points of view and work within the basic ways the world functions because it's not going to break such a solid basis of society over night or even over several generations. Trying to make the world vegan is like trying to go straight from step 1 to step 100 without the middle. It's too narrow minded so people end up just taking sides and ignoring each other when there are some common goals that could be worked on. We truly are talking about lives here with possibly the future of many things dependent on how we handle our agriculture and no one can work together or stop being ignorant about both sides of the issues. I can kill things for food and I probably take it more seriously than those that can't or I wouldn't have gone on for paragraphs.


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## twitchy666

*~ imagination ~*

maybe (unlikely) for considering animals as subhuman

non-intelligent... non-sentient, so no respect?
-------------------------------

I judge 90% of people I meet as above

people who never attended school. not any book. zero comprehension of any language. just their tongues and ears. my ears got rendered damaged. not the ears at all, actually. They're OK. Just abusive, toxic, abrasive, obnoxious language. mind's damaged. mine, because theirs were before? spreading the disease? sport is one category. body only. not enough brain.

This is how I've lived. I have yet to meet any person capable of co-interacting as I do. what come out of their mouths is... pH test to me. 
They've lived in wild? colloquial. limited vocab, comprised of: {Hello, You, uh}
no sanitation. they have power jobs of authority. supreme to me? they can say You Can't. We Can't. when I ask any plain question... they shrug (by phone) ... dunno... hangup. I have to poke a stick. Only after that was done to me all my life. A compendium of effects fossilised into my psyche. education and working phases in life. education was lovely. teaches & students with minds! thrown into world of lobotomised people? aahh..... uuhh? uurrgghh..

I adore all animals for their personality. Know dogs of girl passing by along can al. Howling furiously at me. she holds 'em back. I get fits of laughing. seems the dogs like me or hate. roar! roar! roar! ha ha hahha

what would you do when being attacked (the street thug I had stored up to expect). no knife, gun, kicks, knuckle-buster... just fone callliiees.... wot yer name? yer address x500 times over and over again forever. hello! You. and You. wot yer name? yer address x286 times over and over again forever

that's wild life questions. island somewhere. like they want you to strip off. I'd prefer that. there is more to a person than their name and address. what a person knows. no human being wants to know that. they'd be scared of it.


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## zonebox

I can't eat meat anymore, it makes me feel sick. It all started a while ago, I was working for a thriftstore my job was to drive to various houses and pick up donations. One house, was owned by a lady who had died in it, during our Florida Summers, and was not discovered for two weeks. The stench was unimaginably horrible, and it reminded me of a time that I had left a turkey out by mistake, and came home to it rotting. After that, I equated Turkey with that stench, every time I ate into it, I could just taste the decay. I started to think about where the lady was when she died, how the carpet that was ripped up was by the phone, and I imagined the poor old lady crawling to the phone, how terrified she must have been, and how there was no one there to help her, nor notice her for two weeks, it really made me depressed over thinking about it.

Then I started thinking about animals, and all of the suffering we put them through, and the food started to taste bad, I could feel the tendons, and visualize the flesh being ground up in my mouth, it was disgusting. I felt horrible for the animals, and started to think of how they died, and how much they fought against it. I watched a few videos of how they are slaughtered, and decided to stop entirely eating meat.

I do not place animals over human beings, I don't get excited when a hunter dies, it too is not something I cheer over. If given the choice of saving a human over an animal, the human would win. But I definitely can not eat animals anymore. With that said, I'm a bit of a hypocrite, because I still eat cheese, which is not ethical either.. I've been cutting back on it, and replacing it with vegan cheese where possible. Quitting meat was easy though, there are a lot of options out there. Good cheese alternatives are a pain, but I have cut back significantly.

Hey, if you have the same weakness in cheese as I do, check out this recipe, it is amazing, even better than Nacho Cheese:

2 cups diced potatoes
1 cups diced carrots
1/2 cup water
1/3 cup olive oil (sub almond milk for lower cal/fat/oil)
1 Tbsp salt
Lemon juice from half a lemon
1/2 cup nutritional yeast flakes

The following are option but highly recommended!

1/4 tsp onion powder
1/4 tsp. garlic powder
dash of cayenne
1/2 tsp. McKay's chicken-style seasoning, vegan

Boil the potatoes and carrots until soft.

Blend potatoes and carrots together along with the rest of the ingredients on high in blender until the cheese is extremely smooth. (powerful blender like Vitamix is best)

https://veryveganrecipes.com/amazing-vegan-nacho-cheese-ever/2/

It makes good Macaroni and cheese, as well as it is good in Tacos, and Burritos. And of course, it is amazing for nacho cheese chip dip.


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## Chevy396

naes said:


> What a vain answer though.


Protein and muscle isn't just vanity. Muscle burns fat and protein is a longer lasting form of energy than carbs. It helps with depression to eat fewer carbs compared to protein and fat. Of course you need carbs too, but most diets now days are mainly carbs. And sugar is a big part of it. It should be the other way around, but you just can't do it being vegan unless you eat the same thing all the time.

Protein is also the main thing that your brain uses to build itself. It uses carbs for a burst of energy, but to actually grow it requires protein.


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## TheInvisibleHand

That feeling when the OP is ok with pedophilia but not with eating meat.


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## a degree of freedom

twitchy666 said:


> I have yet to meet any person capable of co-interacting as I do.


I think if you use complete sentences more often you'll have better luck. Just because people have to work really hard to piece together what you're trying to say doesn't imply that you are more intelligent. Intelligence lies in catalyzing insight. How can you make it easier for people? It's worth considering. You're not that different from other people.


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## MobiusX

TheInvisibleHand said:


> That feeling when the OP is ok with pedophilia but not with eating meat.


all you are doing is comparing feelings about murder to sexual feelings... MURDER to a sexual orientation.


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## Chevy396

MobiusX said:


> all you are doing is comparing feelings about murder to sexual feelings... MURDER to a sexual orientation.


He called it murder in all caps. :O

Animals are far from innocent. If you ever worked on a farm you would know this. I do however disagree with them being mistreated on factory farms. Free range is the only kind of meat that I'll buy anymore.


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## MobiusX

finallyclosed said:


> He called it murder in all caps. :O
> 
> Animals are far from innocent. If you ever worked on a farm you would know this. I do however disagree with them being mistreated on factory farms. Free range is the only kind of meat that I'll buy anymore.


actually if they aren't trying to kill you or physically harm you and you kill them then yes they are innocent, but your animal hunter friends aren't. I saw a story of 3 teenagers who went hunting, they didn't come back and they were found dead, gunshot wounds, I call that KARMA, they weren't innocent, they got killed for killing and if that wasn't the motive then oh well, they are dead, they can't physically hurt or kill animals anymore. 3 idiots dead for trying to kill, that's what they get. I laughed at that story. It's funny to me.


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## SunshineSam218

Many people are crazy in this society and people love killing animals for pleasure obviously have something wrong with them. Try watching videos that make you happy and avoid one's that anger you.


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## Dratini

A cat near my area was beaten to death last year and it made me sick to my stomach. How can someone even consider doing that to a little animal?

Pets are companions, and I can't imagine ever putting one through something so horrible.


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## regimes

i think it's pretty gross to torture animals or raise them in abusive/negligent environments.

but if you take care of your animals and kill them quickly/painlessly i don't see a moral problem. 
we're omnivores. it's just nature that we eat meat. just like it's nature that lions, bears, certain types of fish and insects, etc eat meat.


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