# Looks Like The Golden Nardil is Loosing To Parnate



## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

The more and more I persuse this board I have been seeing people say they have been having better luck with Parnate and less side effects when compared to Nardil. It seems a 2 months ago everyone was ravingg\ about the magical benefits of Nardil. That what convinced me a month ago to start. Now, I look at this board and it seems a lot of people jumped on Nardil too around the same time, and it seems a lot are not doing as good as the people before. I read atleast 3 people that have been on it for more than a month saying they are getting nothing positive. And, too add to that it seems people are having better luck to with Parnate now when I read these forums. I have been on Nardil for a month at 60mg and the only thing that I really notice is drowsiness, it's getting so bad I got caught falling asleep in class twice. Plus, I am worried about Nardils hydrazine effects on the liver because I read that it is toxic unlike non-hydrazine Parnate.

I don't want to get off it because how long it took me to get on it. And plus if my psychatrist does let me switch to Parnate there is a half of month wash out period you have to wait. But, we will see. I need my energy, and my liver, plus I want this terrible depression and SA to go away.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Nardil is the most studied MAOI for Social Phobia. One of it's metabolites is a GABA-transaminase-inhibitor so it raises brain GABA levels which could make it the best mono-drug-treatment for Social Anxiety (altough there exist no studies combaring Nardil vs. Parnate for SA). Nardil also has disadvantages like sedation, weight gain etc. I think a Parnate/Klonopin combo is extremely effective for Social-Phobia. Btw.: Don't worry so much about Nardil and your liver, the old reports about severe liver damage mostly included not just Phenelzine but also Barbiturates and sometimes more other drugs. Just get a simple routine blood test to make sure your liver enzymes are in the normal range.

It's true that Parnate is more stimulating, but when sedation with Nardil is so bad for you, ask your Pdoc for a little Modafinil to add and give the Nardil more time to work. Good luck!

www.psychotropical.com


> Differences in side effects between phenelzine and tranylcypromine
> 
> Phenelzine is a hydrazine derivative, and tranylcypromine is a non-hydrazine. Hydrazines inactivate vitamin B6 causing deficiency and are also liver toxic which is why most of them were withdrawn from the market.
> 
> ...





> Tranylcypromine in social phobia.Versiani M, Mundim FD, Nardi AE, Liebowitz MR.
> Department of Psychiatry, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
> 
> Thirty-two patients meeting DSM-III criteria for social phobia entered a 1-year drug treatment with tranylcypromine in dosages between 40 and 60 mg/day. After exclusion of the early dropouts, improvement was rated as marked and moderate in 62% and 17% of the sample (N = 29), respectively. Alcohol abuse was associated with a poor outcome. Side effects were frequent and in some cases delayed the attainment of efficacious dosages until the third month of treatment. No serious adverse reactions occurred. The findings, relative to efficacy, are in accordance with a previous trial with phenelzine but need confirmation in double blind controlled studies.
> ...


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## guitarguy (Aug 12, 2008)

I have been on nardil now for 8 weeks, I noticed change from 3 to 5 weeks in depression alittle but hen I upped my dose to 105, I am now back at 75, and am going to try to get stabalized. I't could take up to 3 months or more for full effect, and you seem tto have the right idea, go up slow, stay at the lowest dose that works as long as you can, and I guarantee you will feel effects. 

Stick with it, you know how it is I mean, one person says nardil, the other says parnate. you've been on nardil for a month, go for 2, if you have to flush out, and start parnate, you may find it was a bad Idea, and you'll take,what, a month and a half from when you start to get wher you are, thats 2 and half more months on nardil. 

Plus look at colonel, he was completely cured, and aries was too wasn't far from complet cur, or was ured, anyway, you can't forget those guys, haven't heard of anyone beeing cured my parnate.

I just thin you should wait it out a bit man, but let me know what you decide. 

good luck.


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## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah Colonels amazing report is what made me want Nardil.

I don't remember Aires.

Is there anybody else who got close to cured our real good results?

And, if you give me a minute I think I can dig up statments of people saying that parnate cured them or atleast there depression anyways. 

I think the two go together, if I was not depressed then why would I have a reason to have social anxiety?

Also, the only reason why I am worried about Nardil and liver toxcicty is because I have a form of liver disease and my enzymes AST, and ALT are already elevated. I don't know how the heck the doc let me get on the med in the first place. He says he does not know all that much about MAOI's. I hope he knows enough now to harm me.

And I gurantee he will not give me Provigil, but I will ask.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Have you been tested for viral Hepatitis? I guess you don't drink much alcohol or take potentially hepatotoxic meds (except Nardil of course)? You should have a sonography of your abdomen/liver and your doc should try to find the reason for the elevated transaminases. Or do you already have a diagnosis?

For liver protection I can recommend (Polyenyl)Phosphatidylcholine (or just plan Lecithin), Silymarin (Siliphos is best IMHO), S-Adenosylmethionine should be avoided while on a MAOI.


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## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

Yes I have a form of Hepatitis. I don't drink or take any other meds except for benzos and Nardil. I barely take the benzos anymore cause they just make me tired. And so does Nardil, but I still take it everyday and I am still worried that it's not good for my liver, even though I am going to get treatment one day, I don't want to speed up the damage.

Like I said, my Doctor does not know much about Nardil. He jokes that I know more than him, but sometimes I am afraid he is not joking. Thats why he probably wont give me provigil because it effects seretonin, norepherine, and I think dopamine, and he would probably be worried that it will cause a crisis. He probably has no idea it's liver toxic, do you think I shoud tell him that it is, and risk loosing my medication?


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

I wouldn't tell it, just get your liver enzymes checked by time and see if they are significant higher than normal. The old reports of liver damage caused by Nardil (often in combination with several other hepatotoxic drugs) were rare, severe and suddenly. If you had such a reaction you would turn yellow, be very ill and not posting here but laying in an ICU ;-).


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## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

I will stay on this medication, because it's my last resort I feel I tried enough SSRI's to know they will never work including some others.

I just wish this tiredness will go away. It's almost like I have narcolepsy. Kinda like when I take high doses of lyrica, but atleast that is plesant. The teacher the other day asked me if I was taking street drugs, because I am always falling asleep in her class. Not so good, especially for somebody who is fatigued in the first place. I mean how can a depression medication cause tiredness, when one main side effect of depression is fatigue, it does not make sense.


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## gordonjohnson008 (Nov 2, 2008)

Do you take benzos or anything on top of Nardil?

Nardil + Benzos (or even Parnate + Benzos) makes me fatigued to the point of narcolepsy.

Do you experience only tiredness, or do you also get memory problems or mental dulling from Nardil?


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## boozapian (Nov 25, 2008)

Jguy 22- what did you decide to do? I am a first time visitor to the board, and found your post which is almost identical to my situation. I've been on Nardil since July, and for the last 12 weeks I've been on 75 mg. Hasn't done anything at all for my social phobia. I don't know what to do. I wonder if increasing to 90 would even help. So, I'm contemplating asking to switch to Parnate. I don't think there are any sexual side effects, and it's more stimulating. I, like you, almost fall asleep everyday. I feel as though someone gave me a sedative!

After reading this posting it's made me think about how far I've come, it's been since July that I've started, so maybe I should just go for 90, and see what happens before switching. Then if that doesn't work, at least I'll know I tried it. For all you Nardil users, what is your opinion on how long I should give it to work before I switch to Parnate?

Boozapian (boozie)


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## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

If I were on a med that was helping but causing unacceptable sedation, the first thing I would do is lower my dosage. I am pretty sure nardil is not a med which has been shown to suddenly be more stimulating rather than sedating once you reach higher dosages (like remeron or effexor is for some people).


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## gordonjohnson008 (Nov 2, 2008)

boozapian said:


> Jguy 22- what did you decide to do? I am a first time visitor to the board, and found your post which is almost identical to my situation. I've been on Nardil since July, and for the last 12 weeks I've been on 75 mg. Hasn't done anything at all for my social phobia. I don't know what to do. I wonder if increasing to 90 would even help. So, I'm contemplating asking to switch to Parnate. I don't think there are any sexual side effects, and it's more stimulating. I, like you, almost fall asleep everyday. I feel as though someone gave me a sedative!
> 
> After reading this posting it's made me think about how far I've come, it's been since July that I've started, so maybe I should just go for 90, and see what happens before switching. Then if that doesn't work, at least I'll know I tried it. For all you Nardil users, what is your opinion on how long I should give it to work before I switch to Parnate?
> 
> Boozapian (boozie)


Hi Boozie,

I also experienced extreme sedation with Nardil so I had to stop it so that I could keep my job. My SA is pretty bad right now but at least I'm doing well at work. Do you also find Nardil affects your cognition, memory, or thinking?

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am contemplating giving Nardil another try and ramping up very slowly, but hearing this experience makes me think I should just stick with Paxil which relieves only 25% of my SA but doesn't give any side effects relative to Nardil.

I was on Parnate for a few months at 30 mg which is a fairly low dose, but it didn't do much for my SA - albeit some and probably it did help more than Paxil. But, it is sedating and it throws off one's normal sleeping patters severely (daytime sluggishness, intense insomnia). It also seemed to make me somewhat mentally lethargic so that university assignments were taking me longer to complete and I was retaining less information from my readings. I don't really seem to have these S/E's with Paxil.


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## boozapian (Nov 25, 2008)

gordonjohnson008 said:


> Hi Boozie,
> 
> I also experienced extreme sedation with Nardil so I had to stop it so that I could keep my job. My SA is pretty bad right now but at least I'm doing well at work. Do you also find Nardil affects your cognition, memory, or thinking?
> 
> ...


Hi Gordon,
I haven't really noticed Nardil having any effect on my cognition or memory. The only side effect I currently have is anorgasmia. In the beginning I had some slight insomnia, but I was able to use a relaxation technique to get myself to sleep. I also had terrible jaw clenching but that went away with time too. I wonder if the anorgasmia will as well. I've heard that it does in some, but in others it doesn't. That, and the fact that the Nardil isn't even working, makes me wonder if I should stop using it, or if I should go up to 90 mg. And if I do, how long do I give it before I just realize it's not going to help me?

So Parnate was sedating? I thought it was supposed to be more stimulating than Nardil. I also heard there were less sexual side effects than Nardil. Did you have any on Parnate?

Boozie


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## gordonjohnson008 (Nov 2, 2008)

I had no sexual side effects on Parnate, or at least very minimal. I had worse sexual side effects on SSRIs than on Parnate.

Parnate gave me daytime sedation for a few hours after I took it and then was stimulating later on. It gave me insomnia.


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## goldenfish (Dec 16, 2009)

*Love Nardil*

I took Nardil for 12 years. I have atypical depression (sleep too much) and OCD.
On 45-60 mg I was anything but sleepy, Nardil really hyped me up (lively and a bit high) so I went down to 30 mg a day. Great mood improvement. Anxiety better, OCD better, but still there, made me more outgoing. Have tried most SSRIs since, these seem better for the OCD but not so good for the depression, SSRIs have more side effects especially sexual, Nardil made a slight difference but I hardly noticed. Never gained weight with Nardil may have even lost a bit. Diet.....beer (mild/moderate strength ), no one told me to avoid it, never had a problem, stopped once I found out. Ate a lot of cheddar cheese (forgot about diet) nothing happened. The only time I felt slightly odd was after some Thai food and it may have been the soya sauce. I think best to avoid really smelly cheese, strong dark beer (stout), strong flavoured dark/pickled aged foods


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

been on nardil since 2006, and it still works more or less the same when i first started it. i take 75mg a day all at once. i don't visit this forum much at all now, just today was a chance occurrence to see whats up.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

Hmm.. yeah, now you have me worried about the effects on the liver. I guess I should do some research on this and get my liver checked now. I might need to stop taking Nardil if I can't stop drinking. I know it's bad, but it's just really hard for me to quit altogether. I don't binge drink much but I drink beer to help me sleep at night most nights of the week. I'm sure it can't be good in the long run.

I've been on Nardil about a month and a half - started at 15 mg, worked up to 30, then 60. I had extreme drowsiness with unsettling side effects like heaviness in the legs around weeks 3 and 4. However, now those side effects seem to have gone away. I would give it a couple more weeks if I were you.

Having said that, I am rather ignorant about meds compared to a lot of the other people on this forum, and I haven't been on Nardil long enough to say for sure if it has been successful.


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## Bacon (Jul 4, 2010)

Nardil is some hardcore stuff MAOI's limit your ability to eat alot of stuff not sure if i would wanna sacrifice that


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## ihateanxiety1 (Feb 8, 2012)

Parnate is very activating. I think too much so. Parnate is great for anxiety but the activation really is too much. I toss and turn all night and throw myself around feeling like all I want to do is star jumps. I'd recommend it for Cfs and depression and people who need more energy. For me it triggers Hypomania which isn't healthy. Might try nardil next. If taking parnate take at 2pm. It gives you energy for around 8 hours then leaves you sleepy. Taking around 2pm minimises the problem. It does work for anxiety thou. Not like the ssri crap.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

ihateanxiety1 said:


> *Parnate is very activating.* I think too much so. Parnate is great for anxiety but the activation really is too much. I toss and turn all night and throw myself around feeling like all I want to do is star jumps. I'd recommend it for Cfs and depression and people who need more energy. For me it triggers Hypomania which isn't healthy. Might try nardil next. If taking parnate take at 2pm. It gives you energy for around 8 hours then leaves you sleepy. Taking around 2pm minimises the problem. It does work for anxiety thou. Not like the ssri crap.


Where is this activation I hear of?:stu I'm taking 70mg and I'm not feeling activated. I'm not really feeling anything.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> Where is this activation I hear of?:stu I'm taking 70mg and I'm not feeling activated. I'm not really feeling anything.


I wouldn't bother sitting around waiting to feel anything to be honest

Better off forcing yourself to do stuff and look out for any positives you could use to create a thought cycle that would help with the medication working. Does that sound crazy ? lol

I think underlying scepticism while sitting around waiting to feel something is a recipe for failure. I know it was for me...

I am making assumptions of course hehe


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