# There's No Point in Getting a Job



## Mongoose

I'm 36, I've never been on a date, and I have lived with my parents in the same house my entire life. I've been unemployed almost all of the last five years. On top of that, I have $200,000 in student loan debt from having "improved" my life through the attainment of an "advanced" degree. The few employers who bothered to respond to my resume were all charlatans looking to take advantage of a desperate person. 

I worked less than a month back in 2011 for a charlatan who had changed his name. The job paid about $26 per hour, but he verbally abused me in front of everyone on a daily basis. When I stood up to him, he replaced me with an ex-convict. Some "friend" of mine who was working there then told them I was a virgin and lived with my parents! I did so many favors for that "friend," and in return, she runs me down behind my back!

A few weeks later, I got a job 25 miles away. The job paid $15 per hour. My supervisor at one point told me she could tell I was a virgin! I was laid off four months later. I was then unemployed for almost three years before I landed a job in late November 2013 as a secretary for $17.25 per hour. My boss was a senile racist who paid me only to listen to his epic rants. After six months, he fired me during one of his psychotic episodes. 

I then did some minor projects for another charlatan. She told me she'd pay me by check on the 16th and the 30th. She never did. When I complained that a $240 check was several weeks late, she told me I had to submit an Excel spreadsheet showing all the work I had done. I did that, and she still wouldn't pay me, so I complained again. This time, she said I needed QuickBooks! I had to wait over a month to get paid $240.

I hadn't even had an interview in two years until last week. After the interview, I just realized there was no point in trying to get a job anymore. No job I can get will ever pay me enough to dig myself out of the hole I'm in. I just know I'm going to live with my parents and remain a virgin the rest of my pathetic existence. So I contacted the employer and told him to forget about it.


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## fonz

What happens when your parents pass away?


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## Mongoose

fonz said:


> What happens when your parents pass away?


I won't have anything else to live for. I only have four other relatives, namely an an aunt and three cousins, none of whom I would recognize.


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## soulstorm

It's sad to hear about society taking advantage of people with SA. It's like people can identify you early on and then they just abuse you. It is as bad in the workplace as it is anywhere else.


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## BeNice

Sorry about your situation. I say don't let the debt get to you. Mine is much less than yours, but I don't ever plan on paying it. 

This might sound like empty advice, but you seem to have some decent education that may or may not help. If you want to work on the minimum, there are places in the US that you can live on the cheap in an RV/truck/van. There are BLM lands in the southwest where you can stay for cheap. I know one area in particular where it's maybe somewhere around 120-something for 7 months, and fairly warm in the winter. If I didn't have obligations and responsibilities, there is a good chance I'd just pack up and leave here. I am just as cynical about life as you are and I often don't see the point in anything, and my life isn't even that bad.


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## Mongoose

BeNice said:


> Sorry about your situation. I say don't let the debt get to you. Mine is much less than yours, but I don't ever plan on paying it.
> 
> This might sound like empty advice, but you seem to have some decent education that may or may not help. If you want to work on the minimum, there are places in the US that you can live on the cheap in an RV/truck/van. There are BLM lands in the southwest where you can stay for cheap. I know one area in particular where it's maybe somewhere around 120-something for 7 months, and fairly warm in the winter. If I didn't have obligations and responsibilities, there is a good chance I'd just pack up and leave here. I am just as cynical about life as you are and I often don't see the point in anything, and my life isn't even that bad.


I see no point in moving anywhere. All I'd be doing is changing roofs. My life would still be pointless.


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## Paul

Considering the debt, have you looked into bankruptcy?


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## Camelleone

don't stop trying, I hope you could get a good job, maybe working in a religious or social place such as church or hospital maybe, or maybe look for a job to work from home..


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## Mongoose

Paul said:


> Considering the debt, have you looked into bankruptcy?


Student loans are non-dischargeable.


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## Cyzygy

Wow, 200k? What degree did you get? Surely you should be able to find a decent paying job for a degree that requires that much debt?! I know a couple of people with that kind of debt but they get paid well into six figures; yes it will take time to pay it off, like 10-15 years, but you can't give up trying. Moreover, as others point out, your parents aren't going to be able to support you forever. Have you looked into government programs that help with loans? You may have to join armed forces or something though...


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## Mongoose

Cyzygy said:


> Wow, 200k? What degree did you get? Surely you should be able to find a decent paying job for a degree that requires that much debt?! I know a couple of people with that kind of debt but they get paid well into six figures; yes it will take time to pay it off, like 10-15 years, but you can't give up trying. Moreover, as others point out, your parents aren't going to be able to support you forever. Have you looked into government programs that help with loans? You may have to join armed forces or something though...


My debt started out at $120,000. That was five years ago. It's now $200,000 because I can't pay it off. I applied for plenty of government jobs. I've never gotten a response from the federal government. The county interviewed me over three years ago but passed on me. I wouldn't think of trying to join the military - I'm 36.


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## ilsr

Sorry to hear this. I can agree certain workplaces can be horrible plus betrayal by friends or coworker rats who want to hurt SA people. It's sounds amazing they would bother you about being a virgin. Are you sure you're not just magnifying on that aspect. There must have been other harrassment issues than that particular point. And it would seem any semi-professional workplace would leave this kind of personal intrusion alone.

I am currently in the process of applying for a federal job myself. If I don't I will run out of funds eventually and either have to move back to family or alternately be a welfare/SSI recipient loser. Another option is moving into a state-assisted home, but it's a nightmare in that own area in many ways. Sorry to hear, it's a nightmare everywhere. 

The only hope is finding a job situation where one isn't harassed to a despicable level. There is probably a point in the general workplace being a nightmare. 50 million working age people are not working despite the lying propaganda. Very few pundits even dare to talk about the real work participation factor on the major news. We ARE in the modern great depression while the rich few % make more than enough money to employ everyone, yet utilize government to hoard more and leave it to government to try to fix the jobless mess of the world today. And workplace stress is at an all time high. Most people hate their jobs and most are unhappy. SA people are among the first to experience the negatives of any workplace. 

I don't know what to say about this debt. I'm sorry for you situation and I imagine I would even be more horrified if I was in your shoes in addition to my horrible non-life already. I went the cheaper route of community college and state school. And I was lucky I finished earlier before tuitions really ballooned but I also don't have an advanced degree (post baccalaureate). It really sucks with SA because I am never confident I can get through the office politic bs to depend on a higher salary in the future . I was always torn down and harassed by "competitors". Even working focused did not help. i.e. never used worktime to waste time on the internet or other chatty bs.

Maybe there should be a category where folks can post threads on job listings which may be conducive for people with SA. i.e. do our own "networking" here. Wonder if moving states away for a "fracking" job is doable for extreme SA.


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## Dark Soul

Yeah, I would say that you are in a tough, tough situation, OP. $200,000 in student loan debt?..that is crazy. Like another poster, I did my college years a long time ago when things weren't as crazy expensive and I went to a state school. Guess I got lucky(paid off my student loans in 2007, after delaying it forever). And you are correct...they can't be discharged(unless you have some horrific injury, like quadriplegia). I know because I tried to get mine discharged in bankruptcy court in 2002...but no dice. Can't imagine having that kind of debt over my head. I am also interested to hear what field you are in. Even $120,000 is a huge amount. I could have never taken that much debt out, especially in the last few years, considering the economy is in the crapper right now.

I think, and again I don't know you, but you've got to get out of the house. Get a fresh start somewhere. But getting out of the house would be the number one priority. I could not imagine living with my parents and being in my mid-30's. No way. You have to get out of that environment. I don't know the level of your SA, but I had pretty bad SA at one time in my life, and I was in a rough situation myself. I was in a place that I didn't like and, even though I love my parents, I knew I had to get out of there. So, I left. Moved away to another state. Didn't know anyone there and didn't have that much money. It was tough. Many lonely times and not much money for things like food, etc. But, through it all, it was a decision that I had to make and can't imagine what would have happened if I hadn't taken the chance. One of my regrets in life(one of a few million) is that I didn't take the jump earlier.

Anyhow, I hope your life can improve and you can find some peace with things. I wish you well.


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## hypestyle

Curious. Mongoose, I continue to have my share of troubles with career and personal issues. I finally achieved a bachelor's degree two years ago, but 99% of all the applications I send out don't yield any invites to interviews. I've stopped counting all the apps that I send out every week. But every week I manage to get several emails that are turning me down. On a few random occasions I did get an interview notice-but the jobs were in plane-trip cities where I didn't know anyone, and with the little money I have, it would have been prohibitively expensive to facilitate a plane ticket, plus motel, plus taxi trips. I had to turn down the interviews. I can say I've had two phone interviews and one in-person interview in the past two years, and that's it.
I'm only working part-time since October, earning $14 an hour at a nonprofit. Nice people, but it's a secretarial role-and one that I've been performing for roughly 17 years now for a couple of different employers-and I'm sick of it. My degree isn't in a field that leads to promotion in this organization, and my city is very depressing. I currently live with family and it's way past time to move on, geographically. Only then could I wrap my head around really having the confidence to try and eke out some kind of dating life.
As of right now, I've got a couple of applications in the pipeline for temporary professional fellowships-one places people in Germany for 6-9 months; another is US based and combines graduate school with a paid internship, including relocation to another city for 9 months. But I won't find out whether I'm a finalist until late February at the latest. I'm trying to apply for some temp jobs to supplement my income until those applications come back with some answers.
Poverty deferments are an option with the student loans. Just explain in explicit terms what your situation is.
Regarding better employment- I'm not sure- based on what your degree is, there are websites geared toward degree-specific careers, I'm sure. But locally- I guess if there are any city-based employment services, that would be an outlet-but of course, often times, these outlets are only promoting lower-wage work, and for the most part not advanced-degree based positions. But worth at least looking into so you can at least say that you tried that angle.
If you get some income going, then websites like Meetup.com have various activities based around singles or whatever hobby interests you have. You have to give the meeting "leader" a couple of dollars (there is a monthly fee for being an event organizer), but depending on who all shows up, it could be an informal networking angle. And yes, if cute women show up, a potential date-finding angle.


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## cavemanslaststand

You've already done your calculations and as you already mentioned:

- Continue living with parents as long as they don't mind. People huddle together when in need so nothing wrong with that. Probably [continue to] help them with chores to maintain some form of peaceful co-existence.

I would only add:

- Obsessive compulsively build your body, then go after rich chicks.


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## ilsr

Just to add an "irony" here. I know of a guy who became a self-made millionaire with his web site. Yet his marriage ended with failure. And now he lives in his own mansion place or whatever in another country and is taking care of his mom who lives with him. Not really an SA guy, he's a leader and had success professionally and can interact with any professional, but he's not exactly a life of the party either and doesn't need many friends physically close (as opposed to electronically) to get by. (also has pets)


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## ilsr

There's some rumor about Obama or some future initiative where school debt could be largely forgiven. Maybe some gov't intervention to chastise public and private education institutions for overcharging so much in the last decades. Could be just alternative media conspiracy talk.

I recall one of my recent instructors who was among those involved in the college budget by department and admitting most of the budgets always went to salaries and related.


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## ScorchedEarth

Personally, even if I'm doomed to fail, I'd rather be able to say at the end of my life, whenever that is, 'I applied 1000 times and none of it went anywhere despite trying my best', as opposed to 'I never tried anything'. Might be the same outcome, but it would give me some solace and vindication.


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## minizz

Mongoose said:


> I'm 36, I've never been on a date, and I have lived with my parents in the same house my entire life. I've been unemployed almost all of the last five years. On top of that, I have $200,000 in student loan debt from having "improved" my life through the attainment of an "advanced" degree. The few employers who bothered to respond to my resume were all charlatans looking to take advantage of a desperate person.
> 
> I worked less than a month back in 2011 for a charlatan who had changed his name. The job paid about $26 per hour, but he verbally abused me in front of everyone on a daily basis. When I stood up to him, he replaced me with an ex-convict. Some "friend" of mine who was working there then told them I was a virgin and lived with my parents! I did so many favors for that "friend," and in return, she runs me down behind my back!
> 
> A few weeks later, I got a job 25 miles away. The job paid $15 per hour. My supervisor at one point told me she could tell I was a virgin! I was laid off four months later. I was then unemployed for almost three years before I landed a job in late November 2013 as a secretary for $17.25 per hour. My boss was a senile racist who paid me only to listen to his epic rants. After six months, he fired me during one of his psychotic episodes.
> 
> I then did some minor projects for another charlatan. She told me she'd pay me by check on the 16th and the 30th. She never did. When I complained that a $240 check was several weeks late, she told me I had to submit an Excel spreadsheet showing all the work I had done. I did that, and she still wouldn't pay me, so I complained again. This time, she said I needed QuickBooks! I had to wait over a month to get paid $240.
> 
> I hadn't even had an interview in two years until last week. After the interview, I just realized there was no point in trying to get a job anymore. No job I can get will ever pay me enough to dig myself out of the hole I'm in. I just know I'm going to live with my parents and remain a virgin the rest of my pathetic existence. So I contacted the employer and told him to forget about it.


I remember your posts from a while back. I am basically you but 10 years younger. 26, virgin, unemployed, haven't worked for 3 years, in university for a degree that may well be useless, living with and dependent on parents, possibly one remaining friend who now has a girlfriend so I never see him, everyone I used to know moved on in life. Like you I don't know how I can turn this ship around. I was always a high achiever academically and I should have gone to medical school instead of taking this degree in physics, I could have had a stable career right now and prospects. Dating wise, forget it. I have decent looks but I can't talk to women, even those that talk to me first.

If you find a way out of this hole I'll be the first to cheer.


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## hypestyle

ils25r said:


> There's some rumor about Obama or some future initiative where school debt could be largely forgiven. Maybe some gov't intervention to chastise public and private education institutions for overcharging so much in the last decades. Could be just alternative media conspiracy talk.


https://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service

It's *Public Service Loan Forgiveness*.


> The PSLF Program is intended to encourage individuals to enter and continue to work full-time in public service jobs. Under this program, borrowers may qualify for forgiveness of the remaining balance of their Direct Loans after they have made *120 qualifying payments on those loans while employed full time by certain public service employers*.


basically if you have some form of a government-related job (municipal, county, state, federal) OR a job with a *501-c 3 status nonprofit group* and you've made 10 years of monthly payments, then you can qualify for the forgiveness.

Of course, with the incoming congress, and whoever ends up president next, who knows if this will be altered or rescinded.

You don't have to have been working for exactly the same organization, but as long as you've been making payments for 10 years while working a government-based or nonprofit job, you qualify.

Also, only payments made from 2007 forward 'count'.. Of course, the first step is to get that qualifying job.


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## ilsr

That helps, Hype. Good to know the specifics about that particular program , thanks.


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## randominternetguy

What kind of degree did OP get? I agree with another comment to just pay for sex. Getting the virgin stigma off your chest will be a huge stress reliever and knowing that you've had sex will improve your overall self-confidence. Also, try not to disclose too much personal information to people especially if it makes you seem pathetic to your peers (middle-aged virgin living with parents etc) as this will surely set you up for social ridicule. As far as jobs, being independent is a fundamental life goal and a job is needed to achieve this. Staying at home with your parents will just drive you deeper and deeper into a state of failure. The sooner you actively plan to get out on your own the better your mental well-being will be.


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## scarpia

There is also a total and permanent disability (TPD) discharge. Might be hard to get. But shrinks are pretty stupid. You might be able to get a schizophrenia diagnosis especially if you have a bad work history. That happened to me. I even got SSI for being a psycho even though I wasn't.


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## nubly

OP, check your attitude. That may be the problem.


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## Mongoose

randominternetguy said:


> What kind of degree did OP get? I agree with another comment to just pay for sex. Getting the virgin stigma off your chest will be a huge stress reliever and knowing that you've had sex will improve your overall self-confidence.


 I don't get how any reasonable person could think that having to hire a prostitute while everyone else can get laid for free would improve one's self-confidence. It would make me feel far worse about myself.



> As far as jobs, being independent is a fundamental life goal and a job is needed to achieve this. Staying at home with your parents will just drive you deeper and deeper into a state of failure. The sooner you actively plan to get out on your own the better your mental well-being will be.


I doubt it. Even if I were to move out, I'd still be alone, and at 36, that's not going to change. Moving out means nothing but changing the roof over my head. It's pointless.


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## meandernorth

Anything is possible in life. Giving up isn't the answer.


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## fonz

Mongoose said:


> I don't get how any reasonable person could think that having to hire a prostitute while everyone else can get laid for free would improve one's self-confidence. It would make me feel far worse about myself.
> 
> I doubt it. Even if I were to move out, I'd still be alone, and at 36, that's not going to change. Moving out means nothing but changing the roof over my head. It's pointless.


You don't have to live alone,you can find flatmates...


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## Mongoose

shorefog said:


> Anything is possible in life. Giving up isn't the answer.


No, not everything is possible.

Giving up isn't supposed to be the answer, but for me, giving up and not giving up get the same result. The result is that my life has gone down the drain.


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## ilsr

Mongoose said:


> No, not everything is possible.
> 
> Giving up isn't supposed to be the answer, but for me, giving up and not giving up get the same result. The result is that my life has gone down the drain.


I've lost my posting confidence again currently due to severe SA depression. So I just say here, I can understand the despair, and hope things get better for you in the new year.


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## zaph

I understand how you feel, I am in a similar situation. Moved back in with family after the bankers crash, with debts and a worthless degree.

I have a full time job, a poster boy for the value of work. Well hardly. I am paid just above minimum wage (UK min, so better than America, but still s**t). I find work soul destroying and exhausting. Getting up at 7 each day, to spend most of my time killing time, and with people I don't really like.

The money just piles up in my bank account, I have no life, and see little point in getting my own place. To see every penny I earn thrown away on bills and rent. 

If there was a chance of getting a girlfriend and a family maybe it would be different, but British women are never going to give me the time of day, so I can't see the point.


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## Mongoose

zaph said:


> I have a full time job, a poster boy for the value of work. Well hardly. I am paid just above minimum wage (UK min, so better than America, but still s**t). I find work soul destroying and exhausting. Getting up at 7 each day, to spend most of my time killing time, and with people I don't really like.


Shoot, I used to get up at 5:30 a.m. just to make $15 an hour (no benefits). I was on time everyday, and I still got canned.


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## ilsr

zaph said:


> I understand how you feel, I am in a similar situation. Moved back in with family after the bankers crash, with debts and a worthless degree.
> 
> I have a full time job, a poster boy for the value of work. Well hardly. I am paid just above minimum wage (UK min, so better than America, but still s**t). I find work soul destroying and exhausting. Getting up at 7 each day, to spend most of my time killing time, and with people I don't really like.
> 
> The money just piles up in my bank account, I have no life, and see little point in getting my own place. To see every penny I earn thrown away on bills and rent.
> 
> If there was a chance of getting a girlfriend and a family maybe it would be different, but British women are never going to give me the time of day, so I can't see the point.


Thanks for sharing. Agreed about the banking crash and inflated living expenses. May be worse to come in the future if there is a next crash.


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## the collector

If I had co workers who treated me like that I dunno what I wud do..that's horrible..I'd probably be very bitter and about ready to go off the deep end...I dunno....sum people can be 100% aholes.

Anyway, don't give up pal..I know I won't...beat all odds brother.


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## ilsr

scarpia said:


> There is also a total and permanent disability (TPD) discharge. Might be hard to get. But shrinks are pretty stupid. You might be able to get a schizophrenia diagnosis especially if you have a bad work history. That happened to me. I even got SSI for being a psycho even though I wasn't.


I had schizo diagnosis probably three times. The last time was years later and I thought I had improved and the dang psych testing still said I was schizo! I refused meds as much as possible. Sometimes out of laziness to take them, other times I was scared to be dependent and have my brain screwed up as I observed with the others who took multiple meds; where I thought how could anyone subject themselves to that much mix of drugs willingly just to keep some quack employed at a state center. Maybe I really need them. I quit quacks years ago since they did nothing to help with the SA anxiety except collect too much money just to tell me I was lazy and irresponsible (like not taking meds regularly) adding to the guilt of being a "wrong" person. I could not get SSI in my 30's because I was working, but now I may have to eventually if things don't change or get worse.


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## shycat69

I live in the UK so our systems are probably different to other countries. I am disabled and now older than many people on this forum (it seems). I worked from the time that I left school - it gave me a sense of pride. While working I studied for a degree and I moved into my own flat, learned to drive, got laid and relationships, and did a lot more. Not all at once. 
I could have given up when I was 11 or when I finished state school at 18. My parents had given me a sense of self and I didn't think of that. In fact I worked for one company for the next 30 years until my doctors said "enough". At that point I felt awful. 

Not working isn't the answer. Everything else comes from that. 

Good luck.


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## scarpia

Mongoose said:


> I don't get how any reasonable person could think that having to hire a prostitute while everyone else can get laid for free would improve one's self-confidence. It would make me feel far worse about myself.


Not everyone else can get laid for free. At least not with any half good woman. Lots of fat drama queens out there. Why put up with that in order to have sex?


ils25r said:


> I had schizo diagnosis probably three times. The last time was years later and I thought I had improved and the dang psych testing still said I was schizo! I refused meds as much as possible. Sometimes out of laziness to take them, other times I was scared to be dependent and have my brain screwed up as I observed with the others who took multiple meds; where I thought how could anyone subject themselves to that much mix of drugs willingly just to keep some quack employed at a state center. Maybe I really need them. I quit quacks years ago since they did nothing to help with the SA anxiety except collect too much money just to tell me I was lazy and irresponsible (like not taking meds regularly) adding to the guilt of being a "wrong" person. I could not get SSI in my 30's because I was working, but now I may have to eventually if things don't change or get worse.


If you are working you shouldn't be able to get SSI. I knew a guy in the psych hospital who had been diagnosed as bipolar once and schizophrenic another time, but he couldn't get SSI or SSDI. The problem was that he couldn't work on the meds they gave him, but he had to work. So he went off the meds and ended up killing his father with a chainsaw.


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## ilsr

scarpia said:


> If you are working you shouldn't be able to get SSI. I knew a guy in the psych hospital who had been diagnosed as bipolar once and schizophrenic another time, but he couldn't get SSI or SSDI. The problem was that he couldn't work on the meds they gave him, but he had to work. So he went off the meds and ended up killing his father with a chainsaw.


I understood the requirements of SSI back then. Sad to hear that chainsaw story. Sure there are criminal mental cases where the psychotropic equivalent of tranquilizers is all that can be done. There's been reports in recent years of more SSI fraud where it goes to more people who don't really need it rather than those who really do. ineffectiveness of government concerning mental health and pressure from big pharma to take dubious psychotropics.


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## cloister2

1. Spend more time at the gym
2. Respond to this bullying in some way that shows you don't give a rat's ***


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## Mongoose

shycat69 said:


> I live in the UK so our systems are probably different to other countries. I am disabled and now older than many people on this forum (it seems). I worked from the time that I left school - it gave me a sense of pride. While working I studied for a degree and I moved into my own flat, learned to drive, got laid and relationships, and did a lot more. Not all at once.
> I could have given up when I was 11 or when I finished state school at 18. My parents had given me a sense of self and I didn't think of that. In fact I worked for one company for the next 30 years until my doctors said "enough". At that point I felt awful.
> 
> Not working isn't the answer. Everything else comes from that.
> 
> Good luck.


I don't think you understand. I can't get a job that will pay me enough for me to do anything of the things you're talking about. The only job I could get is low-paying, and after student loans, I'll have nothing. ZERO will come from working.


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## shycat69

Mongoose said:


> I don't think you understand. I can't get a job that will pay me enough for me to do anything of the things you're talking about. The only job I could get is low-paying, and after student loans, I'll have nothing. ZERO will come from working.


Sorry if I got it wrong. My point is that for me anyway the job helped give me a sense of self worth.

A question - here in the UK the new student loan payments only kick in when you are earning 'enough' (whatever that is).

Good luck.


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## Mongoose

shycat69 said:


> Sorry if I got it wrong. My point is that for me anyway the job helped give me a sense of self worth.
> 
> A question - here in the UK the new student loan payments only kick in when you are earning 'enough' (whatever that is).
> 
> Good luck.


That's not the case here, and if you can't pay your loans, it doesn't matter. The interest will keep capitalizing. It's a death sentence.


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## esherhrh

What happens if you ignore the loans or emigrate? I'm sure they can't send half of the graduate population to prison.


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## ilsr

Mongoose, were you able to make some payments while you were previously working? I know this can't help unless you have money which you don't, but maybe there is something that be done to negotiate your debt with the help of a lawyer. Have you been officially diagnosed as mentally disabled or such? if so, maybe that could be a factor in a hypothetical debt reducing negotiation. did you know the interest rates would change and balloon? maybe you can say you weren't aware of the future changes etc.


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## WineKitty

I still haven't seen the answer to "What is your degree in, what level etc"???????


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## AngelClare

WineKitty said:


> I still haven't seen the answer to "What is your degree in, what level etc"???????


Same here. I'd like to know what degree the OP has so I can give him better advice.

Anyway, OP, just move to North Dakota. Anyone can get a job there because of the oil boom. People without degrees are making 100K+ over there.

Where does the OP live? Location can't be a critical factor.


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## debutante

esherhrh said:


> What happens if you ignore the loans or emigrate? I'm sure they can't send half of the graduate population to prison.


In the U.S., if you ignore the loans, the government will garnish your wages. If you leave the country and try to re-enter (while evading the loans), then I'm unsure of the punishment but there will be consequences regardless. The law for student loans is written in a way that you better be dead or darn near have bodily incapacitates that you're disabled from head to toe and/or near dead before you can be released from the loans.

Sooo...while you won't go to prison, your life will be sorely wrecked..


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## Dark Soul

Yeah..I wonder if he is hesitating because his degree is in something like Art History or Psychology or some other useless major. I just can't imagine spending as much as he did on a degree(advanced or not). Just to have that student loan albatross around my neck would be a pretty bad feeling. Nightmare. And yes, the US can go after you for not paying on those loans. As someone else said, you may not go to prison, but they can make your life uncomfortable....garnishing wages, and even going overseas won't help you. For instance, if you go overseas with the intent that, "hey, screw the US, they won't ever get their money now." Uh no, when you try to renew your passport(and you do have to renew after 10 years), they can decline it and you will be SOL in terms of being able to work, travel overseas. Better hope you have dual nationality or something like that. 

Anyhow, hope this guy gets his life straightened out. I know it is hard, the economy sucks and all, but just hang in there.


----------



## sighsigh

Hmmm... is your "advanced degree" by any chance a JD from a US law school?

Your loans are all federal so just go on IBR/PAYE if you haven't already. You might not even have to make any payments because your income is so low.


----------



## Nick9075

I am in the same position or worse than the OP I am 39 and essentially unemployable. Due to poor work history and apparently not being able to "interview well". I can't get hired anywhere. I am either overqualified under qualified or not qualified. Someone mentioned move to North Dakota for these Mythical 100,000 a year jobs. Sure they will give one to someone without much experience despite the fact that those jobs and most other white collar positions have a laundry list of requirements and if you don't meet them 100% or not that traditional candidate with the upwardly mobile career history you do not get hired


----------



## Nick9075

AngelClare said:


> Same here. I'd like to know what degree the OP has so I can give him better advice.
> 
> Anyway, OP, just move to North Dakota. Anyone can get a job there because of the oil boom. People without degrees are making 100K+ over there.
> 
> Where does the OP live? Location can't be a critical factor.


Yes there are all these jobs over there. Surprised you didn't say the op should move to the NYC metro area which supposedly has the best job market and the most opportunities on the planet


----------



## AngelClare

Nick9075 said:


> I am in the same position or worse than the OP I am 39 and essentially unemployable. Due to poor work history and apparently not being able to "interview well". I can't get hired anywhere. I am either overqualified under qualified or not qualified. Someone mentioned move to North Dakota for these Mythical 100,000 a year jobs. Sure they will give one to someone without much experience despite the fact that those jobs and most other white collar positions have a laundry list of requirements and if you don't meet them 100% or not that traditional candidate with the upwardly mobile career history you do not get hired


The 100K+ jobs I was talking about are blue-collar jobs. It's something I saw on a 60 Minutes type news program.

I don't know if things have changed but you can go online and search for forums where people work in North Dakota.


----------



## jvanb00c

Wow that is an insane amount of debt for a college degree. The debt was part of the reason I decided to not finish school. Yeah I mean 200k in debt is a bad situation but what is your alternative to not working? Just sitting around playing video games and watching tv? Maybe a job at the very least would just give you something to do. Maybe you even end up doing something that makes a difference to someones life. You might be in debt until the day you die but that doesn't mean you should just stop living life.


----------



## ilsr

*It Begins: Obama Forgives Student Debt Of 400,000 Americans

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...dent-loans-of-nearly-400000-people-2016-04-12
*


----------



## safight

Stop bumping this guys topic. It doesn't matter what degree you did, they're all worthless unless you get experience and connections. Even a life in academia isn't guarenteed these days. I feel sorry for the OP because he lives in the USA. In the UK most student debt it unpaid and gets wiped.


----------



## ilsr

The article is related and informative U.S. news since one of OP's complaints was about his $200,000 student debt.

https://www.disabilitydischarge.com/


----------



## AngelClare

safight said:


> Stop bumping this guys topic. *It doesn't matter what degree you did, they're all worthless unless you get experience and connections*. Even a life in academia isn't guarenteed these days. I feel sorry for the OP because he lives in the USA. In the UK most student debt it unpaid and gets wiped.


That's not true. I got a Computer Science degree. After college I was unemployed during a recession for two years. Since then I haven't had any problems finding work. Even now I get harassed by recruiters offering me jobs. If I don't recognized the number I'm afraid to pick up the phone because it could be another recruiter.

I'm not saying everyone should do computer science. But people should look into the job market before getting a degree. I knew a guy who got a degree in Puppeteering. Other risky degrees are history, english, African studies, etc.

I was actually a Physics major but after talking to some graduate PhD students and hearing horror stories about PhD graduates pumping gas for a living I decided to get a Computer Science degree. In other words, I looked at the job market and adjusted my education to fit with the market.

OP,

My mom became a nurse when she was in her late 40's while working as an assistance nurse. You could become a nurse and make $80K easy.

I think it would take you 2 years to get a nursing degree.


----------



## funnynihilist

Too much generic advice around these days. The truth is that the economy has changed and its now a winners and losers economy based not only on skill but also luck.
Of course skills are important but they don't guarantee you a good career.
Why people can't accept that I will never know.


----------



## Mongoose

AngelClare said:


> I was actually a Physics major but after talking to some graduate PhD students and hearing horror stories about PhD graduates pumping gas for a living I decided to get a Computer Science degree. In other words, I looked at the job market and adjusted my education to fit with the market.


Good for you. Not everyone is as smart as you. Your advice does me no good at this point because I don't have a time machine.



> OP,
> 
> My mom became a nurse when she was in her late 40's while working as an assistance nurse. You could become a nurse and make $80K easy.
> 
> I think it would take you 2 years to get a nursing degree.


I have $200,000 in student loan debt. I have never paid any of it, and my credit is ruined. How am I going to get a loan to get another degree?


----------



## AngelClare

Mongoose said:


> I have $200,000 in student loan debt. I have never paid any of it, and my credit is ruined. How am I going to get a loan to get another degree?


Have you explored all possible financial aid opportunities?

What degrees do you hold? Maybe there is opportunity there. We all make choices don't work out the way we hopped. No need to be ashamed of that.

Edit: Also, what city are you in? That can make a huge difference in employment opportunities.

Teaching is also a possibility. Some places will pay for your education if you decide to teach.

What about law enforcement? I think you're around the cutoff age but it's different in different cities. My best friend is a police officer. It pays well.


----------



## vsaxena

The only advice I can give you is that it is possible to negotiate your debt. I spent most of my 20s in poverty, so Sallie Mae backed off of me. Then when I finally rose up through the trenches, I managed to settle my $23,000 of debt for just $5,000! That saved me a whopping $17,000!


----------



## Farideh

What I don't understand is why people look down on those who are virgins. Virgins are not any less of a person than those who aren't virgins. Societies ridiculously high standards is something no one should give a **** about. Society can kiss my ***. I've departed from their psychopathic ways.


----------



## nubly

Mongoose said:


> Good for you. Not everyone is as smart as you. Your advice does me no good at this point because I don't have a time machine.
> 
> I have $200,000 in student loan debt. I have never paid any of it, and my credit is ruined. How am I going to get a loan to get another degree?


How did you rack up $200k in student loan debt.


----------



## outofhope

Computer science degrees actually have the highest rate of unemployment in my country at 13%. It's more of a general degree here, than a specialist IT course. What I've learnt is that getting a job is as much about having connections and luck than pure skills. I know of people who have had friends write their resume and get them a job in their companies. It's all about who you know, and as SA folk, we are ****ed.


----------



## outofhope

Farideh said:


> What I don't understand is why people look down on those who are virgins. Virgins are not any less of a person than those who aren't virgins. Societies ridiculously high standards is something no one should give a **** about. Society can kiss my ***. I've departed from their psychopathic ways.


Because society is scum.


----------



## Mongoose

nubly said:


> How did you rack up $200k in student loan debt.


Why does it matter?


----------



## Mongoose

AngelClare said:


> Have you explored all possible financial aid opportunities?
> 
> What degrees do you hold? Maybe there is opportunity there. We all make choices don't work out the way we hopped. No need to be ashamed of that.


I don't want to identify myself in any way. Yeah, things don't always turn out the way we want; but in my case, things didn't turn out the way I wanted them to, and I got $200,000 in debt!



> Edit: Also, what city are you in? That can make a huge difference in employment opportunities.


I'm in a big city. What does that tell you? It tells you I'm unemployable. If I moved to a small town, I'd be eating out the dumpsters.



> Teaching is also a possibility. Some places will pay for your education if you decide to teach.


I would never do this. I had a lot of disciplinary issues and bad grades when I was in school because I was mentally unbalanced. The thought of school makes me extremely depressed.



> What about law enforcement? I think you're around the cutoff age but it's different in different cities. My best friend is a police officer. It pays well.


Yeah, I would do this if I weren't almost 38. Even if I'm under the age limit, 38 is too late for something like that.


----------



## 629753

Mongoose said:


> I don't want to identify myself in any way. Yeah, things don't always turn out the way we want; but in my case, things didn't turn out the way I wanted them to, and I got $200,000 in debt!
> 
> I'm in a big city. What does that tell you? It tells you I'm unemployable. If I moved to a small town, I'd be eating out the dumpsters.
> 
> I would never do this. I had a lot of disciplinary issues and bad grades when I was in school because I was mentally unbalanced. The thought of school makes me extremely depressed.
> 
> Yeah, I would do this if I weren't almost 38. Even if I'm under the age limit, 38 is too late for something like that.


Dude, you are still complaining 2 years later, do something man!

1 socializination each week sounds good?

just a hi or something


----------



## nubly

Mongoose said:


> Why does it matter?


The average student loan debt is $30k. You should have stopped asking for loans way before it got that bad.


----------



## Mongoose

nubly said:


> The average student loan debt is $30k. You should have stopped asking for loans way before it got that bad.


You don't know what you're talking about, and your backseat driving is utterly unhelpful. I wouldn't have gotten a degree if I hadn't gotten financial aid.


----------



## peytonfarquar

Mongoose said:


> I don't get how any reasonable person could think that having to hire a prostitute while everyone else can get laid for free would improve one's self-confidence. It would make me feel far worse about myself.
> 
> I doubt it. Even if I were to move out, I'd still be alone, and at 36, that's not going to change. Moving out means nothing but changing the roof over my head. It's pointless.


But have you ever tried it? Moving out? In order to get to a place you've never been before, you have to take a path you've never taken before. If you stand still, life really does pass you by.


----------



## Mongoose

vikingwarrior said:


> I'm guessing you couldn't pay the loans and the interest ballooned?


Yes.


----------



## Mongoose

peytonfarquar said:


> But have you ever tried it? Moving out? In order to get to a place you've never been before, you have to take a path you've never taken before. If you stand still, life really does pass you by.


Yeah, but not everyone can attain even modest success in life. That's just a fact. I'm too far behind everyone else and too old to turn my life around. So I accept that this is my lot in life.


----------



## Michael1983

Then stop moaning about it and close the thread. Surely, this is just attention seeking. People have given you advice and you bat it away, what's the point in that?


----------



## nubly

Mongoose said:


> Yeah, but not everyone can attain even modest success in life. That's just a fact. I'm too far behind everyone else and too old to turn my life around. So I accept that this is my lot in life.


It's a choice that you made and now regret when it got too out of control. I see young folks on this forum doing the same mistakes.


----------



## wish you were here

Michael1983 said:


> Then stop moaning about it and close the thread. Surely, this is just attention seeking. People have given you advice and you bat it away, what's the point in that?


He has as much right to vent here as anyone else. If you don't like this thread then get out of it.


----------



## twitchy666

*I tried one just now*

application dispatched.

I only pick 'em out like needle in haystack.

Was obsessed for decades, making jobsearching my 100% 24/7 occupation & devotion. Make sense?

Eased off a bit since last job, on friends' advice


----------



## iAmCodeMonkey

wish you were here said:


> He has as much right to vent here as anyone else. If you don't like this thread then get out of it.


To be frank, the person you were quoting does have a point.


----------



## victoriangirl

Well, if you don't have to work due to financial reasons (parents supporting you), then ask yourself how you would like to fill in your days. 

Do you really want to stay at home, watching movies, playing games, googling things (or whatever else you do, to fill up your day), or do you want to make yourself useful, however that might look. You can learn a new language, you take online courses, you can even do volunteer work over the internet. 

Or how about part time work? Even if your boss is the boss from hell, it will only mean that you will have to see him/her a few days in the week and the rest of the week, you have all the time in the world to turn that negative energy into a positive one. That way, you at least get out of the house, earn some money, but you still have alone, SA time to recover. 

And please do not overfocus on being a virgin. It is not something that defines you. Also look at it from another perspective; you can have an orgasm? Rejoice and be thankful for that. Imagine all the millions of women and men who can't achieve that. Sorry, I'm being so blunt, but it is what it is. The act of sex cannot be what determines a person.


----------



## Overdrive

This is really sad for you


----------



## wish you were here

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> To be frank, the person you were quoting does have a point.


No he doesn't. Mongoose is under no obligation to do what people on here tell him to do. Maybe he is but it isn't working. Everyone should be allowed to vent freely on a social anxiety forum.


----------



## iAmCodeMonkey

wish you were here said:


> Mongoose is under no obligation to do what people on here tell him to do.


Neither is anyone else. No need to "educate" me, thanks.


----------



## Mongoose

victoriangirl said:


> Do you really want to stay at home, watching movies, playing games, googling things (or whatever else you do, to fill up your day), or do you want to make yourself useful, however that might look. You can learn a new language, you take online courses, you can even do volunteer work over the internet.


I've literally done all of those things, except I volunteered in person, not online. And all those activities just made me feel worse.



> Or how about part time work? Even if your boss is the boss from hell, it will only mean that you will have to see him/her a few days in the week and the rest of the week, you have all the time in the world to turn that negative energy into a positive one. That way, you at least get out of the house, earn some money, but you still have alone, SA time to recover.


Done all that. Zero came of it.



> And please do not overfocus on being a virgin. It is not something that defines you. Also look at it from another perspective; you can have an orgasm? Rejoice and be thankful for that. Imagine all the millions of women and men who can't achieve that.


Huh?


----------



## secondaryissue

One red flag is here is the blame you place on every single employer. You claim they are the bad guy and all of them were "charlatans".

I knew a person very very that loved to do that. EVERYONE was the bad guy but them. Never lost a job for a normal reason the other side was always crazy/crooked/corrupt.

I get the feeling if I handed you a $200,000 check you would just shift your complaints from student loans to something else. 

Are you seeing a therapist or psychiatrist. I'd betting no and then a sob story about why you can't.... 

I wish you luck but your lack of responsibility and the blame placed on former employers leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


----------



## onmyown016

At 37 it's do or die really. I would move to where there's work or emigrate.


----------



## Mongoose

secondaryissue said:


> One red flag is here is the blame you place on every single employer. You claim they are the bad guy and all of them were "charlatans".


I had to read my original post because I couldn't remember what I wrote in 2014. I'd only add that the employer who was paying me $15 let me go because the work slowed down, but I'm sure they picked me to go first because I had become depressed and unproductive. I blame myself for that.

After I wrote the original post, someone who I did some work for refused to pay me, claiming I made a mistake on one thing, so she didn't have to pay me for anything else I ever did. But I guess that's also my fault. I chose not to sue because I didn't want to relive that experience and have a lawsuit (even if it's one I filed) turn up on a background check.



> I knew a person very very that loved to do that. EVERYONE was the bad guy but them. Never lost a job for a normal reason the other side was always crazy/crooked/corrupt.


I worked for someone whose own parents sued him. That's the guy who employed me for a month. He fired several others before he hired me and fired three others after he hired me but before I quit. He has fired or caused dozens of others to quit since I quit. (He sent me a text saying I was fired, but I had already quit and walked out when I got the text). So I also stand by that one.

I don't blame myself for losing any jobs other than the $15-an-hour one, but I blame myself for ending up with lousy employers. I didn't do well in school, I didn't make many friends, I didn't learn even half-decent social skills, and I didn't gain enough experience. The only employers who would someone like that are the ones looking to take advantage of someone with no options.



> I get the feeling if I handed you a $200,000 check you would just shift your complaints from student loans to something else.


Yeah, I have a lot of things wrong. I'm a 37-year-old unemployed virgin and have lived at home my whole life!



> Are you seeing a therapist or psychiatrist. I'd betting no and then a sob story about why you can't....


I have a therapist. I have been in therapy since I was a child.


----------



## Dark Soul

As another poster said, it is do or die time. You are almost 38...you have to get your **** together fast. Now, the loans, yeah..you are ****ed on that. You won't be able to get out from under them. Yes, the usur.....ahem..interest rates..are ridiculous. However, you said you had zero loan debt 10 years ago, and this student loan scam was going on well before that, so you knew the consequences. And the economy has been crap for a long time, so you had to have known that you might not get a really good job for your financial investment. But, it's too late now. You'll have to pay on that forever. 

Now, your situation...

Get out of the house. You have to get out. Trust me, it will make things much better. I was also pretty ****ed up and, after reading some of your posts, I can relate to a lot of things that you have been(and still are) going through. It is tough, no doubt. But one day, I said enough is enough. I got into my car and moved away. I didn't have a job, apartment, friends, etc. I didn't even use the Internet then(yes, I am older than you) as it was in its infancy. I just picked a decent city from a travel guide that was in my local library. Read about about the city, saved up a bit of money, and got in my car and went. 

Best decision I ever made. It changed my life and it helped lead me to where I am today. I did this in my mid-20's because I was pathetic back then and felt like such a loser. I can't imagine being in my late 30's and dealing with those feelings. So I can empathize with you because it is a crushing life to feel so inadequate.

I know you probably don't have the money..but, okay, ask your parents for a loan. Find a city that is a bit under the radar. You have tons more to work with than I had because you have the freaking Internet! You can line up an apartment before going(I would have loved having that option available when I first journeyed out). Sign a short-term lease(3-6 months). Start looking for jobs a couple days after you get there. Now, there will be rough spots...I'm not going to lie. I had big time social anxiety(and I still do, at times struggle with it), so I spent a long time alone when I moved. It was difficult and there were a ton of trying times, but you know what..it made me really independent. I had to do everything myself, so it made me stronger and allowed me to break free from the bond that had enchained me. I developed and evolved much more and certainly if I had stayed around the crappy little "home" town that I had lived with its depressing weather and ****ty employment options, I probably would have either ended up dead, in prison or in the state hospital. I had to get out..I had no choice. And I think you are in the same position. It is a struggle and you will continue to struggle, but over time you will develop a self-sustaining existence and you will evolve and grow as a person.


----------



## Junny

TranquilityLane said:


> Reflection.
> You immediately felt attacked by my comment and say that I I have such a lack of self esteem.
> Why all that sudden anger, dude? Can't you deal with the fact that not everybody agrees with you?


Far from angry, I don't get angry. I understand you're frustrated with yourself but that is not a valid reason to stalk me. I KNOW you have a lack of self-esteem, it's not even debatable. As for the advice you have given, practice what you preach.


----------



## TranquilityLane

Junny said:


> Far from angry, I don't get angry. I understand you're frustrated with yourself but that is not a valid reason to stalk me. I KNOW you have a lack of self-esteem, it's not even debatable. As for the advice you have given, practice what you preach.


Hypocritical assumption.
Once again proving my point.
You can assume about me what you want, saying I have low or even the lowest of self esteems, if you want so, but if you deny that you don't look down on other people to temporarily raise your confidence, you are just lying.
I don't know why you feel so insulted by this, since it is just typical primate behavior and not dependant on personality. Did I ever imply that I don't do it or never did it in my life? Evidently not. So take your ad hominem's back and just recognize a simple fact about **** Sapiens, thank you very much.


----------



## funnynihilist

If this was a 38 year old woman that started this thread the tone would be a lot different...just saying.


----------



## Mongoose

Dark Soul said:


> I know you probably don't have the money..but, okay, ask your parents for a loan. Find a city that is a bit under the radar. You have tons more to work with than I had because you have the freaking Internet! You can line up an apartment before going(I would have loved having that option available when I first journeyed out). Sign a short-term lease(3-6 months). Start looking for jobs a couple days after you get there. Now, there will be rough spots...I'm not going to lie. I had big time social anxiety(and I still do, at times struggle with it), so I spent a long time alone when I moved. It was difficult and there were a ton of trying times, but you know what..it made me really independent. I had to do everything myself, so it made me stronger and allowed me to break free from the bond that had enchained me. I developed and evolved much more and certainly if I had stayed around the crappy little "home" town that I had lived with its depressing weather and ****ty employment options, I probably would have either ended up dead, in prison or in the state hospital. I had to get out..I had no choice. And I think you are in the same position. It is a struggle and you will continue to struggle, but over time you will develop a self-sustaining existence and you will evolve and grow as a person.


Thank you for your advice. My parents won't help me move to another city. When I bring it up, my dad gets angry and tells me to forget about it. I can't even rent an apartment without a cosigner because my credit is ruined. They might help me rent a place here, but I don't want to live around here. I don't want to be anywhere near them, I hate this city, and I don't want to live in the same goddamn city my whole life! I don't even know anyone who still lives here!!


----------



## harrison

outofhope said:


> *Computer science degrees* actually have the highest rate of unemployment in my country at 13%. It's more of a general degree here, than a specialist IT course. What I've learnt is that getting a job is as much about having connections and luck than pure skills. I know of people who have had friends write their resume and get them a job in their companies. It's all about who you know, and as SA folk, we are ****ed.


My son is 22 and has almost finished a degree in Computer Science here in Australia. He already has his first full-time job and they give him a day off each week to go to Uni to do his last unit. He even did a full year of work experience with a government department as part of his degree a couple of years ago and was very well paid for that too.

He was always into computers etc and it seems to have really paid off for him. I've always tried to encourage him to get a university education and I'm very glad now that he has almost finished it.


----------



## everton16

don said:


> My son is 22 and has almost finished a degree in Computer Science here in Australia. He already has his first full-time job and they give him a day off each week to go to Uni to do his last unit. He even did a full year of work experience with a government department as part of his degree a couple of years ago and was very well paid for that too.
> 
> He was always into computers etc and it seems to have really paid off for him. I've always tried to encourage him to get a university education and I'm very glad now that he has almost finished it.


It's not like that in the UK. Australia is wealthier, has more jobs, better houses, higher pay.


----------



## everton16

The OP has been on here for 4 years so it looks like he'll never change.


----------



## ilsr

everton16 said:


> It's not like that in the UK. Australia is wealthier, has more jobs, better houses, higher pay.


Similarly in the U.S., all the public support money for college students today is in the student loan debt, little to no support for a career after graduation unless they find work with the feds or join the armed forces. I've heard of poor desperate college grads from other countries moving to Australia to find farm work jobs.


----------



## harrison

everton16 said:


> It's not like that in the UK. Australia is wealthier, has more jobs, better houses, higher pay.


Yes you're probably right - Australia is a very wealthy country and I remind myself how lucky I am everyday tbh. My circumstances have been quite difficult for a while now and the level of support we get here is just phenomenal.

I can't understand how any country would have a system in place in which interest could accrue to such an extent as how OP has described. It seems to border on criminal for them to allow something like that to occur - it would ruin someone's life.


----------



## ilsr

everton16 said:


> The OP has been on here for 4 years so it looks like he'll never change.


Unfortunately looks like he is stuck. Then the only outcome in the future will be if he is lucky to get on disability, or he might have to join the homeless in the cars at first, then the streets. It is not fun being in a mental home or halfway house either. I saw older people stuck for the rest of their lives in there. It's terrible. Hopefully thinking about these possible futures can help the op take some action despite the debt. There are former felons who still owe restitution more than 200k who continue on with their lives.


----------



## ilsr

don said:


> I can't understand how any country would have a system in place in which interest could accrue to such an extent as how OP has described. It seems to border on criminal for them to allow something like that to occur - it would ruin someone's life.


Very true. The U.S. is a corrupt political and financial oligarchy now. It's literally bread and circuses now. (in the form of fed and state programs, propaganda news media, and fun but distracting hollywood movies)


----------



## funnynihilist

ilsr said:


> Very true. The U.S. is a corrupt political and financial oligarchy now. It's literally bread and circuses now. (in the form of fed and state programs, propaganda news media, and fun but distracting hollywood movies)


This. There are many displaced people in this corrupt system that simply cannot make it work for themselves. I am one of those people.
The system is so "thick" that I can't break in. 
If that makes any sense.


----------



## Mongoose

ilsr said:


> Unfortunately looks like he is stuck. Then the only outcome in the future will be if he is lucky to get on disability, or he might have to join the homeless in the cars at first, then the streets. It is not fun being in a mental home or halfway house either. I saw older people stuck for the rest of their lives in there. It's terrible. Hopefully thinking about these possible futures can help the op take some action despite the debt.


What action? Who's going to hire me at this point? And how would I live on minimum wage? It seems like working and not working will lead to the same thing for me. I'd apply for disability, but I don't have a disability.

The truth is I will end up on the street someday. That's what happens when you screw your life up. You can screw your life up forever and never be able to recover from it, no matter how hard you try.



> There are former felons who still owe restitution more than 200k who continue on with their lives.


Most of them have no future either. But some job programs for felons are out there. No programs for law-abiding unemployed people are out there. Newspapers have reported many times over the years about how employers universally reject long-term unemployed job applicants.


----------



## Dark Soul

don said:


> Yes you're probably right - Australia is a very wealthy country and I remind myself how lucky I am everyday tbh. My circumstances have been quite difficult for a while now and the level of support we get here is just phenomenal.
> 
> I can't understand how any country would have a system in place in which interest could accrue to such an extent as how OP has described. It seems to border on criminal for them to allow something like that to occur - it would ruin someone's life.


Oh, it's not borderline criminal..it IS criminal. The US system is completely corrupt and criminal..just like the current regime. They do not care about their citizens in the least. They treat illegals better than their own people. THAT is how ****ed up America is. And yet they expect the citizens that they abuse to continue to fund people who have no right to even be there...pure insanity. I left the US(live in Asia) so the illegals get squat from me. "Usury"...a word that the US just loves. And they have placed the OP in a terrible financial situation...essentially financial death. It is a ridiculous system and I doubt it will change soon. Even with all the information out there, the universities are still raking in the money and the brainwashing of "you have to go to college to succeed" is still deeply entrenched. I graduated college in the mid-90's, so I got out right as things were starting to get bad. These days, I would not recommend college to anyone. Too many people go to college, end up with ridiculous amounts of debt and then there aren't enough jobs that pay a decent wage. A truly vicious cycle.


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## andy0128

It's hard enough to find jobs for those who have a college degree and worked in their field continuously since. Now we are in our mid to late thirties with career gaps and throwing as well SA into the mix the future is bleak. Having SA complicates matters a lot. It narrows down your options to jobs that don't require very good people skills which aren't many. You can't apply to other jobs as your skills and experiences are too specific and besides there are no shortage of people with the required skills applying to jobs outside your domain. Others won't take you because your are ocerqualified. The options tend to be working for unscrupulous employers or jobs that are so soul destroying you have no choice to resign after a time to preserve what remains of your sanity.


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## palpitationbrah

I have had opportunities after graduating last year. I did a bachelors in physics and I've been offered schemes which pay £28,000 a year in cyber security. It's not amazing but it's decent. The problem with these schemes is they lock you in for a few years. At the moment the only other kind of work I can get is call centres or retail... both of which I stuggle with immensely. The last time I answered phones I would have to wipe my hands and face as I'd be dripping in sweat from the anxiety.


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## ilsr

Mongoose said:


> What action? Who's going to hire me at this point? And how would I live on minimum wage? It seems like working and not working will lead to the same thing for me. I'd apply for disability, but I don't have a disability.


I guess I was mistaken. I thought you had severe SA that interfered with work function.



> Most of them have no future either. But some job programs for felons are out there. No programs for law-abiding unemployed people are out there. Newspapers have reported many times over the years about how employers universally reject long-term unemployed job applicants.


Well my point about felons was that some continue on even with outstanding debt. I understand they may have more resources, family help, or personable skills than the severely afflicted SA person who struggles to find and keep work.



> The truth is I will end up on the street someday. That's what happens when you screw your life up. You can screw your life up forever and never be able to recover from it, no matter how hard you try.


I don't know what else to say. I've exhausted my ideas on how to help on this predicament. Maybe the economic and political situation in our country will change for the better someday affording more opportunities. i.e. "keep hope alive". Best of luck to you.


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## Mongoose

ilsr said:


> I guess I was mistaken. I thought you had severe SA that interfered with work function.


I did. That's my point. SA can ruin your life even after you have made changes. I didn't get work experience while I was in school because I thought nobody would hire me. Now my resume is basically just a name and address. But whether I could get disability now because of how I was 10 years ago is doubtful. I might be able to apply for disability based on depression, but they'll probably tell me to go on meds.


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## Unforgiven17

Mongoose said:


> I did. That's my point. SA can ruin your life even after you have made changes. I didn't get work experience while I was in school because I thought nobody would hire me. Now my resume is basically just a name and address. But whether I could get disability now because of how I was 10 years ago is doubtful. I might be able to apply for disability based on depression, but they'll probably tell me to go on meds.


I was following this thread but it's got so long now im unsure if volunteering has been mentioned. Im sure it must have but that's really the only way to build up your CV. May make some friends too to help boost your confidence. Also, do you have a skill that you could use to set up a business? Maybe it for profit but just for experience.


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## Mongoose

Unforgiven17 said:


> I was following this thread but it's got so long now im unsure if volunteering has been mentioned. Im sure it must have but that's really the only way to build up your CV. May make some friends too to help boost your confidence. Also, do you have a skill that you could use to set up a business? Maybe it for profit but just for experience.


Yeah, I volunteered two or three times a week for two years. It got me zero. I was worse off than many of the people I was helping! Many of them had jobs or at least were on food stamps.

No, I don't think I have job skills. I used to have an aptitude for music and foreign language. I created a personal website a while ago so I could pretend to be self-employed. In the process, learned some basic CSS and SEO, but that's as skilled at anything as I've ever been.


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## Unforgiven17

Mongoose said:


> Yeah, I volunteered two or three times a week for two years. It got me zero. I was worse off than many of the people I was helping! Many of them had jobs or at least were on food stamps.
> 
> No, I don't think I have job skills. I used to have an aptitude for music and foreign language. I created a personal website a while ago so I could pretend to be self-employed. In the process, learned some basic CSS and SEO, but that's as skilled at anything as I've ever been.


Can I ask what your degree is? I don't really know the implications of a student loan in, I'm guessing the US? But over in the UK the debt isn't such a big deal, if we don't earn enough to pay it back it gets written off eventually. Also it doesn't harm your credit etc...

I'm going back to uni in September and I'm so scared! The first time round was probably the most depressing time in my life, I was probably the only one there who enjoyed the course more than all the other stuff (socialising). I was offered the chance to do a funded phd but I had no confidence.

I don't think at 37 you should be giving up on anything, granted I have had better luck than you all round, the people I work for have always had a belief in me I never have. Hence, why I feel I can go back to uni and start working towards the career never had.

This may be a stupid suggestion, especially with S.A., have you ever thought about volunteering abroad? I had a friend that went to Austrialia and picked fruit, she was paid a basic wage and got accommodation free. But got to explore Austrialia in her free time.

I think you either need to do something drastic or work on little steps to help you eventually move out of your parents and build a life you are happy with. The very worst thing that could happen is you could end up back where you are now. It's good that you have a safety net at your parents though, at 18 I was pretty much on my own.


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## nubly

Mongoose said:


> I did. That's my point. SA can ruin your life even after you have made changes. I didn't get work experience while I was in school because I thought nobody would hire me. Now my resume is basically just a name and address. But whether I could get disability now because of how I was 10 years ago is doubtful. I might be able to apply for disability based on depression,* but they'll probably tell me to go on meds.*


Why don't you at least try it before dismissing it.


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## Mongoose

nubly said:


> Why don't you at least try it before dismissing it.


What do I do next? Will I be on disability for the rest of my life?


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## WashedOut

Mongoose said:


> What do I do next? Will I be on disability for the rest of my life?


Look for jobs whilst you're on disability. That way you have a steady income.


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## derpresion

where can you work with rly bad sa??


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## MsVaslovik

Mongoose said:


> No job I can get will ever pay me enough to dig myself out of the hole I'm in. I just know I'm going to live with my parents and remain a virgin the rest of my pathetic existence. So I contacted the employer and told him to forget about it.


I've been there, in the horrible job thing, more times than I care to remember. The monstrous abusive bosses, the workplace bullies, the stolen wages, being cheated on hours and pay and worked into the ground while all that was going on, the whole ball of wax. I went through that nightmare for 16 years in one horrid job after another.

I honestly believe there is no job you can get where there will not be workplace bullies or a monster abusive boss. That's just what society has become because in general people are nasty, selfish, cold, and mean.

The job I have now at least let's me support myself well, afford a nice condo that I have to myself, eat well, and have a refuge from the nasty people of the world when I'm not working. Some days at work the nasty people even leave me alone and go eff with someone else.

So for me the point of getting a job was to have a semi-decent life, if a lonely one, and be able to enjoy the little rewards of all my hard work in peace. It beats grinding poverty and living hand to mouth, trust me I know whereof I speak.


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## nicca the niga

Mongoose said:


> What do I do next? Will I be on disability for the rest of my life?


Gay for pay?


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## zork2001

This thread reminds me of Castaway on the Moon. Japanese guy owes 200 thousand in loan, decides to commit suicide, instead he washes up on a small island right in the middle of the city that he can't get off, after a bit he just decides to just live on the island credit card free.

http://www.dramanice.io/-castaway-on-the-moon/watch--castaway-on-the-moon-episode-1-online


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## StaticTrade

I honestly wish there was an advocacy for people like us to help get us to work. I don't have any advice for you Mongoose, most of the advice that's been given to you is useless anyways.


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## dafuq999

Mongoose said:


> I'm 36, I've never been on a date, and I have lived with my parents in the same house my entire life. I've been unemployed almost all of the last five years. On top of that, I have $200,000 in student loan debt from having "improved" my life through the attainment of an "advanced" degree. The few employers who bothered to respond to my resume were all charlatans looking to take advantage of a desperate person.
> 
> I worked less than a month back in 2011 for a charlatan who had changed his name. The job paid about $26 per hour, but he verbally abused me in front of everyone on a daily basis. When I stood up to him, he replaced me with an ex-convict. Some "friend" of mine who was working there then told them I was a virgin and lived with my parents! I did so many favors for that "friend," and in return, she runs me down behind my back!
> 
> A few weeks later, I got a job 25 miles away. The job paid $15 per hour. My supervisor at one point told me she could tell I was a virgin! I was laid off four months later. I was then unemployed for almost three years before I landed a job in late November 2013 as a secretary for $17.25 per hour. My boss was a senile racist who paid me only to listen to his epic rants. After six months, he fired me during one of his psychotic episodes.
> 
> I then did some minor projects for another charlatan. She told me she'd pay me by check on the 16th and the 30th. She never did. When I complained that a $240 check was several weeks late, she told me I had to submit an Excel spreadsheet showing all the work I had done. I did that, and she still wouldn't pay me, so I complained again. This time, she said I needed QuickBooks! I had to wait over a month to get paid $240.
> 
> I hadn't even had an interview in two years until last week. After the interview, I just realized there was no point in trying to get a job anymore. No job I can get will ever pay me enough to dig myself out of the hole I'm in. I just know I'm going to live with my parents and remain a virgin the rest of my pathetic existence. So I contacted the employer and told him to forget about it.


How's it going these days?


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## dafuq999

How's it going now?


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## AngelClare

palpitationbrah said:


> I have had opportunities after graduating last year. I did a bachelors in physics and I've been offered schemes which pay £28,000 a year in cyber security. It's not amazing but it's decent. The problem with these schemes is they lock you in for a few years. At the moment the only other kind of work I can get is call centres or retail... both of which I stuggle with immensely. The last time I answered phones I would have to wipe my hands and face as I'd be dripping in sweat from the anxiety.


Learn computer programming.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WillYouStopDave

Don't worry. They'll force us to work someday. Probably digging ditches with our fingers like in good old Soviet times if we're not good for anything else. Their ****ed up plans won't work if they can't get everyone to pitch in.


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## sqwaaaz

Mongoose said:


> I don't get how any reasonable person could think that having to hire a prostitute while everyone else can get laid for free would improve one's self-confidence. It would make me feel far worse about myself.


Come on. Don't you want to join the club? Experience the sole purpose you were build for?


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## caveman8

sqwaaaz said:


> Come on. Don't you want to join the club? Experience the sole purpose you were build for?


Exactly. It needs to be thought of as an experience. And, you don't want to be looking back in 30 years and saying why didn't I just do it.


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## Makenzie83

I'm so sorry about your situation. Hugs! I worked in outside sales for years and made great money. Then SA hit and getting up in front of large groups of people and presenting was no longer an option. I looked into other jobs, but none paid even close to what I was making. So, at that point I knew that I had two options... sell my house and downgrade my lifestyle, work 2-3 jobs at a time or start my own business. I never in a million years thought I could run my own business or be successful at it, but I was! If you are crafty even in the slightest, I highly recommend checking out Etsy. It's changed my life for the better without a doubt.


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## tossi

Maybe you should intern for free in your city and change your whole resume so it only includes the past 5 years. Bring some of the old dates forward.


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## Elainajade85

Mongoose said:


> What action? Who's going to hire me at this point? And how would I live on minimum wage? It seems like working and not working will lead to the same thing for me. I'd apply for disability, but I don't have a disability.
> 
> The truth is I will end up on the street someday. That's what happens when you screw your life up. You can screw your life up forever and never be able to recover from it, no matter how hard you try.
> 
> Most of them have no future either. But some job programs for felons are out there. No programs for law-abiding unemployed people are out there. Newspapers have reported many times over the years about how employers universally reject long-term unemployed job applicants.


Well beef up your resume and LIE. Lots of people fabricate on their resume in order to get hired. Also student loan debt isn't the end of the world. Who cares if you can never pay it all back. Pay the bare minimum and get over it. When you die it will be the government's problem. I know that sounds awful but just pay what you can. You still have so much potential. I think it's sad that you have given up.


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## ctoc

Moderators please close this thread. People are posting on here just to feel better about themselves at the OP expensive.

You're all losers and you know it.


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## railcar82594

The OP asked for comments. There have been helpful and sympathetic posts in kind.


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## sandisc2

All the older members seemed to fall off the face of the earth.


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## Dan the man

sandisc2 said:


> All the older members seemed to fall off the face of the earth.


I joined here in 2013 and used the forums a little bit than went away to use mostly the now ( I think?) defunct blog part of the site. I started posting here again in the forums recently as I think the conversations/posters have become better over time. 

I re-read this topic. I'll keep the OP in my prayers.


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## Paul

sandisc2 said:


> All the older members seemed to fall off the face of the earth.


They all got jobs, and are thus too busy to post anymore.


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## Socialmisfits

Paul said:


> They all got jobs, and are thus too busy to post anymore.


Let’s hope so. You have to be happy for them if this is the case!


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## shortterm

Paul said:


> They all got jobs, and are thus too busy to post anymore.





Socialmisfits said:


> Let’s hope so. You have to be happy for them if this is the case!


I doubt it. Judging from his last posts, mongoose quit because of a data hack on this forum. As for others, well a few I used to know simply set up shop in other peoples lives. They had children but never had to address their social anxiety issues anymore.


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## meco1999

Mongoose said:


> I'm 36, I've never been on a date, and I have lived with my parents in the same house my entire life. I've been unemployed almost all of the last five years. On top of that, I have $200,000 in student loan debt from having "improved" my life through the attainment of an "advanced" degree. The few employers who bothered to respond to my resume were all charlatans looking to take advantage of a desperate person.
> 
> I worked less than a month back in 2011 for a charlatan who had changed his name. The job paid about $26 per hour, but he verbally abused me in front of everyone on a daily basis. When I stood up to him, he replaced me with an ex-convict. Some "friend" of mine who was working there then told them I was a virgin and lived with my parents! I did so many favors for that "friend," and in return, she runs me down behind my back!
> 
> A few weeks later, I got a job 25 miles away. The job paid $15 per hour. My supervisor at one point told me she could tell I was a virgin! I was laid off four months later. I was then unemployed for almost three years before I landed a job in late November 2013 as a secretary for $17.25 per hour. My boss was a senile racist who paid me only to listen to his epic rants. After six months, he fired me during one of his psychotic episodes.
> 
> I then did some minor projects for another charlatan. She told me she'd pay me by check on the 16th and the 30th. She never did. When I complained that a $240 check was several weeks late, she told me I had to submit an Excel spreadsheet showing all the work I had done. I did that, and she still wouldn't pay me, so I complained again. This time, she said I needed QuickBooks! I had to wait over a month to get paid $240.
> 
> I hadn't even had an interview in two years until last week. After the interview, I just realized there was no point in trying to get a job anymore. No job I can get will ever pay me enough to dig myself out of the hole I'm in. I just know I'm going to live with my parents and remain a virgin the rest of my pathetic existence. So I contacted the employer and told him to forget about it.


Wait, what? I lived with my mother for 18 years after college graduation (just moved out 5 months ago at age 40), and she MADE me keep a full-time job AND pay her rent every month. She loves me very much and enjoyed having me living with her, but she expected me to be a financially responsible adult. Your parents didn't make you keep a job or pay them rent? I don't mean that as a slight, I'm just surprised. I'd say you're very lucky.


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## VIncymon

Start with part time jobs.
And to quote an old meme "learn to code"

I don't literally mean, learn to code....but rather do some online courses.
Don't be like me. I have always used the excuse of "work is too busy" to avoid doing online courses....but some people at my job have done it....so obviously its doable.

I have worked the same job for 4yrs Complaining, that I can't get a promotion. But who knows where I would have been, had I made the time to add online courses to my resumé.

I may not be able to get a scholarship. I may not have the money to pay a full masters degree on my own. That's beyond my control. But what is within my control is to do short online courses.

You have the time. At least you can't use my excuse of "work is too busy" ....although even I hate to admit it....its an excuse. An excuse that I have hid behind for too long.

Let's make a promise to each other OP.
I am going to start doing something online today. We can PM each other's progress.


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## anxietygone

I don't know what happened to the OP but I don't think it turned out well.


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## railcar82594

anxietygone said:


> I don't know what happened to the OP but I don't think it turned out well.


Probably not. I recall the OP and when this thread was first posted back then. I think he had vague dreams of working in something white collar related to his degree and graduate work, but then it was falling apart with too many years to mid thirty's without any (real) job history, and like many severe social phobic neets, they cant face or are scared to death of having to work a lower tier job, as it's tough for more middle-class background having to try to integrate in lower tier jobs and poorer people and with lack of social skills fallen behind socially for even decades. There's all kind of judgement, and the problem of not fitting in as well. Eventually it may have to be forced , by parents gone, or facing imminent homelessness , then in last ditch desperation, having to go for the lower "wageslave" type of work or teenagers' first job types, like retail cashiering, fastfood etc.

A lot of former members of within 5-10-15 years ago have probably aged out, way over 30+ now. It's either a high shame or just useless to post here anymore now when the worst fears and outcomes due to SA/SP happened anyways and things did not improve. Because, as most of us older social phobics know, (severe) SA mostly doesn't improve and can't be healed; it's a curse for life. It's only possible to keep working and striving despite it or "around" it as best as one can trying to fight against the worst outcomes with no certainty of being functional enough or just still failing, but the SA will never really be solved or overcome.

So the "40+ " mini-sub category is gone I see now. And heck, the "frustration" sub category is gone too. Most were only here to commiserate, as most "positives" don't work for severe SA.

There's a neighboring thread in this category called "How many are neet?". The sad truth is probably at least 35% of all members or lurkers of this site forum over the years have severe SA/SP and can't function and maintain a demanding job well enough and either end up or continue to being neet dependents or attempt to apply for SSD/SSI. And getting SSD/SSI, there's no real positive to post here anymore, becoming a bum slum class disdained by most (the majority of society) having to work so hard by paycheck to paycheck just to keep their independent lives going and not being a leech or homeless, and the future possibilities lost being a ward of the state until retirement age and forgotten in society.

But most in that severe state of debilitating SA don't feel welcome here, as there's (or there was?, the mods have changed multiple times over the past 15 years, and I've been away from here long stretches; anyways I see some old threads like this one still here) lots of judgement by those with SA who can maintain a job, over those at the level who "can't", so there's always a dichotomy on forums like this or any other similar forum, because SA and SP can have a wide ranging spectrum.

And there are millions of homeless unaccounted for , no doubt in my opinion, at least 30% are social dysfunction (where it's said at least 50% of homeless have severe mental problems and there are less mental homes and hospitals today; the public money has run out and mental are of course no longer a priority with so many other "normie" public entitlements and issues today) but no longer have any support, kicked out, or parents dead or gone probably, or estranged or shunned by other relatives.


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## truant

railcar82594 said:


> A lot of former members of within 5-10-15 years ago have probably aged out, way over 30+ now. It's either a high shame or just useless to post here anymore now when the worst fears and outcomes due to SA/SP happened anyways and things did not improve.


I'll be 50 in a couple months. I'm completely useless, but also sort of shameless.😂 My worst fears have pretty much all come true now, and I'll likely be homeless in the next couple years.

And yeah, I think homeless people are mostly people who don't qualify for disability and who don't have relatives to look after them but who are too dysfunctional to get and keep jobs/fulfill welfare requirements through a combination of mental illness and substance abuse. People like me, iow.


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## fonz

Just checking in, I see I was the first to reply in this thread though I have no memory of it. I haven't logged in here for a couple of years. I have to admit I was 27 then and now I'm 35. Sad to hear that OP has gone from this forum with some expecting the worst. Personally, nothing has improved for me really. I spend most of my time on Reddit now but remembered this forum so thought I'd check in. I own my own house and live a few minutes away from my parents but I'm more miserable than ever. Still work the same job I've had since 21 which kills my soul every day. Certainly won't be doing it for another 14 years, even 14 more months seems like a stretch. I would have to agree with OP partially. There is no point in getting a job IF it is one that is going to kill your soul, destroy your physical/mental health. It just gets so much harder as you get older to be working a menial job, it's so much easier to brush off any criticism when you're younger because you feel like you have time and won't be stuck there. You just really feel like a screw up to be doing a ****ty job past 30


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## Jessalone

fonz said:


> What happens when your parents pass away?


That's the question that always give you a big kick that you need to get a job😂at least for me it does. Then it makes you be so desperate


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