# Anhedonia research/anecdotal experiences



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hey guys,


----------



## anhedonia (Dec 29, 2012)

Interesting. I'm very desperate to find relief from this anhedonia/emotional anesthesia myself... but at the same time... when it comes to mind altering drugs, I don't feel comfortable even taking them. I'm worried that I'll turn into a complete vegetable or something.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

yeah, I think opioids offer quick relief from depression and anhedonia, That is probably why so many people self medicate with opioids, not mention uppers and alcohol, etc.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Agomelatine? good news for me, I'm on agomelatine and lamictal. Second trial of agomelatine.

I thought it was working the first time on 25mg, then I upped to 50mg and it stopped working. I just thought it was one of those unexplainable mood swings that had nothing to do with the med, so I quit. Now I'm back on it at 25mg again to see if it helps. We'll see if lamictal gives a nice mood boost as well.

Since anhedonia is caracteristic of dysthymia, and the best treatment out there for it seems to be amisulpride/sulpiride, I think it is worth mentioning. However I have no clue where to find the studies.

It's funny how you keep changing your mind about your meds, kehcorps, you always seem to say something different every week about your drugs/dosage. Why not evaluate these on the long run to really have a consistent impression?


----------



## Spungo (Jul 30, 2012)

It's interesting the OP specifically mentioned GABA. Alcohol is a GABA drug, and my mood has always improved dramatically while drinking alcohol. I could talk for hours about any subject.



anhedonia said:


> Interesting. I'm very desperate to find relief from this anhedonia/emotional anesthesia myself... but at the same time... when it comes to mind altering drugs, I don't feel comfortable even taking them. I'm worried that I'll turn into a complete vegetable or something.


So far, phenelzine has been the most effective for treating my anhedonia, dysthymia, and social anxiety. In addition to increasing monoamines, phenelzine is known to boost GABA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8749840


> The antidepressant/antipanic drug phenelzine (PLZ) is both an inhibitor of, and a substrate for, monoamine oxidase (MAO). PLZ also causes an elevation of brain levels of the amino acid neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA); this action can be reversed by pretreatment with the MAO inhibitor tranylcypromine (TCP), suggesting that the GABA-elevating effect is largely the result of a metabolite of PLZ formed by MAO.


Tranylcypromine (Parnate) not elevating GABA would explain why it's more stimulating than phenelzine (Nardil) and causes anxiety in some people.

Phenelzine does this because it blocks GABA transaminase:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1610412


> The effects of long-term (28-day) administration of several antidepressant/antipanic drugs [imipramine, desipramine, tranylcypromine and phenelzine (PLZ)] on gamma-aminobutyric acid-tranaminase (GABA-T) activity and GABA levels were investigated in rat frontal cortex. Of the drugs investigated, only PLZ inhibited GABA-T and elevated GABA levels. Additional short-term experiments were conducted with PLZ, and they demonstrated a dose-dependent inhibition of GABA-T in rat whole brain. Time-response studies on inhibition of GABA-T in whole brain demonstrated that at a dose of PLZ of 15 mg/kg i.p. inhibition of GABA-T remained relatively constant from 1 to 8 hr and that the enzyme was still inhibited by 23% at 24 hr after PLZ administration.


It's worth noting that phenibut is highly rated on this forum. Phenibut is a GABA drug.


----------



## Spungo (Jul 30, 2012)

We have genergic wellbutrin in Canada. They are purple pills that smell like ***.


----------



## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/59549-the-anhedonia-thread/

Everything has been discussed there allready


----------



## HippieChick (Aug 6, 2011)

I've tried Ultram, 2 to 3 times a week, for depression and anhedonia. It worked great at first but then I built up a tolerance to it, so it doesn't work at all anymore. I've tried Bromocriptine, a dopamine agonist, for low motivation, anhedonia and low sex drive drive. Again, it worked great at the beginning, but then I built up a tolerance to it. Increasing the dose didn't help for either drug, it just made me dizzy.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

HippieChick said:


> I've tried Ultram, 2 to 3 times a week, for depression and anhedonia. It worked great at first but then I built up a tolerance to it, so it doesn't work at all anymore. I've tried *Bromocriptine*, a dopamine agonist, for low motivation, anhedonia and low sex drive drive. Again, it worked great at the beginning, but then I built up a tolerance to it. Increasing the dose didn't help for either drug, it just made me dizzy.


You took Bromocriptine!!! You know that has Bromine in it right!!??!! A halogen like Fluorine! Hippie Chick you are poisoning yourself with dangerous drugs, I can't believe this knowing how you feel about something as benign as NaF. You crazy girl.


----------



## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

I barely felt something from oxycontin (fake pills I I think) never really tried opioids. Only uppers and some weed work for me, and now I am on beta blockers I feel calm again. I'm dead inside. Just listen to crazyMed  Clonazepam also works slightly.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

That longecity thread is too confusing. They talk about sketchy research chemicals, amphetamines, and opioids to cure anhedonia, and don't even suggest any "common" psych meds. Very discouraging!


----------



## ironman28 (Jan 18, 2013)

I read Efexxor/remeron is the most powerful combo


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ironman28 said:


> I read Efexxor/remeron is the most powerful combo


Remeron was great when it worked but it poops out quicker than anything else out there.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Maybe this is why zyprexa is good for anhedonia:



> *Olanzapine increases in vivo dopamine and norepinephrine release in rat prefrontal cortex, nucleus accumbens and striatum*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Maybe this is why zyprexa is good for anhedonia:


Will you be seeking Neuroprotection now that you are taking an 'actual' atypical antipsychotic? 

Cos i want to start Nac and high dose fish oil


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Will you be seeking Neuroprotection now that you are taking an 'actual' atypical antipsychotic?
> 
> Cos i want to start Nac and high dose fish oil


I already take fish oil. I started DHEA a few days ago which also inhibits metabolism of glutathione and acts as a neuroprotective neurosteroid. I'll probably end up adding some NAC as well.


----------



## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I already take fish oil. I started DHEA a few days ago which also inhibits metabolism of glutathione and acts as a neuroprotective neurosteroid. I'll probably end up adding some NAC as well.


Good to hear. Im essentially waking up completely functional now. The first week or so was groggy but its starting to fade as i suppose the olanzapine is reaching steady state.

I need to source some NAC but ive got the fish oils, zinc, vitamin C and iron sorted (some of those because i dont eat red meat).


----------



## anhedonia (Dec 29, 2012)

Just curious, for anyone else experiencing anhedonia... do you feel as if you are emotionally numb? I know kehcorpz said he did... just curious whether other people suffering from anhedonia can't feel human emotions as well.

For me personally, I can't enjoy anything or feel ANY emotions whatsoever.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

If I remember well, you're the guy suffering from paxil-induced anhedonia, huh? Anyhow, I think anhedonia is the inability to experience pleasure, while what you seem to describe would rather be "emotional flatness".

I consider myself to be anhedonic. I am tired, apathetic, and don't feel any excitement in my life and yet I can still feel negative emotions such as frustration, or despair. On the other hand, you just don't feel ANYTHING. You're numb to both positive and negative emotions. That's my way of seeing the issue.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

See initially when Zoloft/Remeron worked really well for me I would imagine it was the Remeron working on norepinephrine via alpha-2 receptor types. Now this is another part of why i'm trying Effexor at 225mg (anything below won't give you the norepinephrine boost). I think people have been going about it the wrong way by always trying dopaminergic drugs, more and more research seems to be pointing towards norepinephrine, although I would say it's more about proper balance.



> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1537189106001583
> 
> *Abstract*
> 
> To determine whether noradrenaline (NA) is an essential neurotransmitter for addictive and appetitive behaviors, we measured drug and food seeking in transgenic mice lacking dopamine beta-hydroxylase (Dbh), the enzyme responsible for synthesizing NA. Using the conditioned place preference test (CPP), we show that _Dbh_ −/− mice do not exhibit rewarding behavior to morphine, cocaine, or the mixed reuptake inhibitor bupropion. In spite of their lack of preference for drugs, _Dbh_ −/− mice had an unaltered preference for food. Drug seeking was induced when NA was restored to the central nervous system of _Dbh_ −/− mice by administration of l-threo-3,4-dihydroxyphenylserine (DOPS) and carbidopa. When a NK1 receptor antagonist was co-administered with morphine or cocaine, it produced aversive behavior in _Dbh_ −/− mice while it abolished place preference in the controls. NK1 antagonists alone did not have any rewarding or aversive effect in the CPP suggesting that substance P opposes some of the unpleasant effects of morphine and cocaine. Our results show that NAergic transmission is necessary for motivated behaviors, the dysregulation of which is a co-morbid factor of many depressive states. The reversibility of this phenomenon, by restoring NA, indicates that even when this behavioral deficit is genetically determined it can be reversed.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

First day without coffee.

Here's some good info on studies showing compounds in coffee are mu-opioid receptor antagonists.

http://aminotheory.com/coffee/


----------



## anhedonia (Dec 29, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> If I remember well, you're the guy suffering from paxil-induced anhedonia, huh? Anyhow, I think anhedonia is the inability to experience pleasure, while what you seem to describe would rather be "emotional flatness".
> 
> I consider myself to be anhedonic. I am tired, apathetic, and don't feel any excitement in my life and yet I can still feel negative emotions such as frustration, or despair. On the other hand, you just don't feel ANYTHING. You're numb to both positive and negative emotions. That's my way of seeing the issue.


Yes. I'm completely numb, but I can't enjoy anything either... anhedonia/emotional anesthesia is a living nightmare.


----------



## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> What do you guys think about Effexor + Mirapex? Although it's usually used for Parkinson's wonder if a doctor would prescribe it.
> 
> Full article: http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=101961
> 
> It's weird I've read some anectodal reports that Mirapex CAUSED anhedonia. But these people never had anhedonia to begin with, so it may react differently in them. So far haven't found any studies to back up the fact that it could cause it.


A neurologist COULD (although still not very likely since no Parkinson, a psychiatrist CAN'T.

I've tried to get some neurologist-meds myself and they really don't do it unless you can convince them there are no other alternatives left for your depression.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah I doubt i'd get a neurologist to see me hehe.

Man my anhedonia sucks because I even don't get pleasure from alcohol. I can drink so much and I don't really get much from it other than a headache if I continue drinking. After 5 large glasses of wine not to mention 1500mg phenibut I still don't feel anything. Only thing I get pleasure from is opioids like oxycodone.


----------



## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Lay off the booze on the effexor. I could easily slam 25 beers on that and it wouldn't even phase me i ended up going on drinking rampage it was pretty self destuctuve. Try marijauna instead who knows maybe they can go safely together.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

@gotanxiety wow 25 beers. Yah but I mean I don't even get the slight euphoria alcohol gives me when I'm not anhedonic. During anhedonia I get 0 from it, it's like drinking water.


----------



## Mish (Mar 26, 2010)

@kehcorpz, yo man we talked before about Zoloft and Wellbutrin combo a few months back when you were on it, as i am still continuing it. Why are you switching around so much with meds? It seriously took a good 3 months for zoloft+wellbutrin combo to start working i still take it because it is still quite activating for me. Of course i still don't think it is doing much for any anxious/depressive feelings but it helps a lot in social situations and provides much energy in times where we most feel exhausted (socializing). 

Can you tell me your experiences with these new meds you are taking?


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I was on Wellbutrin for several months, I too noticed it most in the 3rd month, but it just wasn't cutting it. I haven't been changing meds that much. I added Zoloft to wellbutrin for a bit and didn't work out, then I added abilify and both were great but both only come brand name in Canada so was paying through my ***. Since abilify was the more powerful of the 2 I decided to keep it, but it was also the more expensive at 200$ a pop and after a few months I decided I can't keep paying that much for it. Right now I'm only on Effexor at 225mg and I haven't really noticed it doing much but it's only been a week at this dose. I'm going to give it a month and my doc wants to add zyprexa as it helps some people with negative symptoms like anhedonia.


----------



## jimmythekid (Apr 26, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> I was on Wellbutrin for several months, I too noticed it most in the 3rd month, but it just wasn't cutting it. I haven't been changing meds that much. I added Zoloft to wellbutrin for a bit and didn't work out, then I added abilify and both were great but both only come brand name in Canada so was paying through my ***. Since abilify was the more powerful of the 2 I decided to keep it, but it was also the more expensive at 200$ a pop and after a few months I decided I can't keep paying that much for it. Right now I'm only on Effexor at 225mg and I haven't really noticed it doing much but it's only been a week at this dose. I'm going to give it a month and my doc wants to add zyprexa as it helps some people with negative symptoms like anhedonia.


I'm not sure what the rules about posting about this here are but.. You can get generic Abilify online. When I was considering it it was like $50 for 100 x 10mg tablets. It's legal to import meds this way if you have a prescription, too. And if you send the script to the online pharmacy, they can ship it with your order and customs, seeing that, will let it through. Something to consider.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sounds fake since Abilify has never gone generic and the patent is still fresh till 2015. You can even see on drug patent watch that no such thing exists. Other countries may be producing it illegal, who knows.


----------



## jimmythekid (Apr 26, 2010)

Other countries like India have different patent laws. I think that's where they get it from.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Possibly but I wouldn't trust anything from India and not tested by FDA heh.


----------



## Spungo (Jul 30, 2012)

Aren't most drugs already made in India or China? I would trust India if it were something simple like amphetamine, alcohol, marijuana, heroin, etc. The more complicated drugs that take 20 steps to make are the ones I would want tested.


----------



## billyho (Apr 12, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I doubt i'd get a neurologist to see me hehe.
> 
> Man my anhedonia sucks because I even don't get pleasure from alcohol. I can drink so much and I don't really get much from it other than a headache if I continue drinking. After 5 large glasses of wine not to mention 1500mg phenibut I still don't feel anything. Only thing I get pleasure from is opioids like oxycodone.


You should be able to get mirapex or any other dopamine agonist from your psych doc. It's really not that hard if you've been through various classes of meds and have a good relationship with your doc. I was offered them and declined originally. They can be ordered online rather easily but if you are seriously considering using a dop agonist, check out this thread from mind and muscle regarding DAWS dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/36005-daws-dopamine-agonist-withdrawal-syndrome


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Spungo said:


> Aren't most drugs already made in India or China?
> 
> 
> > Nah I think they have to be made inhouse and the whole manufacturing process has to be approved by fda. At least for non-generics. Although in Canada generics are made in house too. Even if the company is Indian or what not they need to produce the actual drug in Canada.
> ...


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Spungo said:
> 
> 
> > Aren't most drugs already made in India or China?
> ...


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> kehcorpz said:
> 
> 
> > Spungo said:
> ...


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

About the caffeine issue: I've never drank coffee or had a steady dose of caffeine in my diet, and I have endogenous depression and crippling anxiety. But my conditions are more than likely something that I was born with (runs in my family), so I guess it is possible for caffeine to damage brain function somehow in people who were born "normal."

I've found that the human body adapts to whatever you put into it or do to it on a regular basis. For example, I do not exercise but do not gain weight. However, if I began to run 10 miles a day everyday for over a year, then suddenly stopped, I would pile on the pounds even without a change in my diet (this happened to a girl I went to school with) -- your body adpats to the calories you burn.....you stop cardio and the weight piles on. Same for pills -- what works now will eventually alter your body chemistry to where it stops working.

I'm also realizing that addictive meds are those meds that render you non-functioning when you stop taking them -- not only does your body build a tolerance to them (the good affects stops), but they also damage you in a way that makes you dependent on whatever is in them just to be your old messed up self again.

What I do know is that the effect of pills, ANY pills, is only good for up to a year......then you're back to square one and have to hope that whatever you had been taking previously has not damaged you further.

I wish I could understand the science more behind these drugs, but my brain isn't wired like that. Very informative thread though.


----------



## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

In modern societies (Western mostly), people are doing basically everything to make sure they evolve to and end up with depression.

Caffeine, alcohol, food filled with trans fats and sugar, ...


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Well I've had depression since I was young too but it never came with anhedonia till later years. And well I got really hooked on coffee/energy drinks/diet coke at some point where it was just unhealthy, who knows what I screwed up. 

As far as meds being good up to a year, maybe that's in your case but I know many people who didn't have their drugs poop out till 5-10 years later. Remeron/zoloft for example only lasted a few months for me, not even a year. 

From what I read the actual reward itself is provided by mu-opioid receptors when you do something you enjoy. The dopamine is there to motivate you maybe simultaneously raised to keep memory of the reward in order to crave it. I'm not exactly sure how norepinephrine all ties into this as I only read a few studies but basically in the studies removing norepinephrine blunted reward. It would be cool if anyone had any more studies relating to norepinephrine and reward. I had a pretty good one I found a while back but never ended up bookmarking it.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Here's an interesting one:



> *Norepinephrine in the Prefrontal Cortex Is Critical for Amphetamine-Induced Reward and Mesoaccumbens Dopamine Release *
> 
> *Abstract*
> 
> ...





> Norepinephrine: A possible excitatory neurohormone of the reward system
> 
> Rats working for stimulation of the hypothalamus were injected with Parnate and
> 
> ...





> *Prefrontal Cortical Norepinephrine Release Is Critical for Morphine-induced Reward, Reinstatement and Dopamine Release in the Nucleus Accumbens *
> *Abstract*
> 
> Increasing evidence suggests that in addition to the mesoaccumbens dopamine (DA) system other neurotransmitter and brain systems are also involved in opiate addiction. Recent evidence points to a major involvement of brain norepinephrine (NE) in the behavioral and central effects of opiates and, more specifically, indicates that NE in the prefrontal cortex may have a critical role in rewarding effects of opiates. Moreover, a body of data points to regions within the medial prefrontal cortex (mpFC) acting as final common pathway of drug relapse behavior. The present experiments were aimed at investigating the possibility of a selective involvement of the prefrontal cortical NE in the rewarding and reinstating effects of morphine. In a first set of experiments, we found that morphine enhances NE and DA release in the mpFC and DA release in the nucleus accumbens, as measured by intra-cerebral microdialysis. *Selective depletion of medial prefrontal cortical noradrenergic afferents abolished the morphine-induced increase in DA release in the nucleus accumbens*. In a second series of experiments, we demonstrated that the same lesion impaired both conditioned place preference (CPP) induced by morphine and reinstatement of an extinguished CPP. The present results indicate that an intact prefrontal cortical NE transmission is necessary for morphine-induced rewarding effects, reinstatement, and mesoaccumbens dopamine release.


I mean the interactions between the different neurotransmitters is so important to only try to raise 1 like with SSRIs is usually a mistake. It's why the older drugs seem to work better as they aren't selective and you can't really guess which ones your brain is lacking.


----------



## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

Inshallah said:


> In modern societies (Western mostly), people are doing basically everything to make sure they evolve to and end up with depression.
> 
> Caffeine, alcohol, food filled with trans fats and sugar, ...


and lots of it obviously!


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> and lots of it obviously!


Funny part is I went from about 4-6 cups of coffee a day to nothing and didn't even have any withdrawal symptoms like headaches or anything. It's only been a few days. I guess I'm a bit more tired than usual haa.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

Inshallah said:


> In modern societies (Western mostly), people are doing basically everything to make sure they evolve to and end up with depression.
> 
> Caffeine, alcohol, food filled with trans fats and sugar, ...


I agree with you. But my pdoc claimed that diet does not play a part in mood (maybe that was my sign that I need a new pdoc). Sugar highs and carb crashes are very real in my world, so I avoid them if at all possible.

It's cheap and profitable for food manufacturers to feed us corn-based and white crap food. And the resulting health problems are profitable for big pharma, the huge diet-product industry, and the medical field.

When people go in the grocery store, they should avoid the entire middle of the store and shop around the walls only where the meat, dairy, and produce sections are.......that'll definitely help (although I admit to using frozen meals too often).


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Well I've had depression since I was young too but it never came with anhedonia till later years. And well I got really hooked on coffee/energy drinks/diet coke at some point where it was just unhealthy, who knows what I screwed up.
> 
> I did have a fountain coke addiction in my 20s and early 30s, and an Excedrin addiction at one point, so I guess I have had my share of caffeine-overdose even if I've never been a coffee drinker.
> 
> ...


Response above in red


----------



## billyho (Apr 12, 2010)

FormerOptimist said:


> I agree with you. But my pdoc claimed that diet does not play a part in mood (maybe that was my sign that I need a new pdoc). Sugar highs and carb crashes are very real in my world, so I avoid them if at all possible.
> 
> It's cheap and profitable for food manufacturers to feed us corn-based and white crap food. And the resulting health problems are profitable for big pharma, the huge diet-product industry, and the medical field.
> 
> When people go in the grocery store, they should avoid the entire middle of the store and shop around the walls only where the meat, dairy, and produce sections are.......that'll definitely help (although I admit to using frozen meals too often).


I agree, that is a sign you need a new pdoc!

Within the last year, Congress allowed pizza to be categorized as a "vegetable" with the intent on making it easier for food vendors to comply with USDA guidelines for school lunches. I **** you not!! Sadly, it's all about money and not about the people..

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45306416/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/#.USP-Hmd6Tpc


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

billyho said:


> I agree, that is a sign you need a new pdoc!
> 
> Within the last year, Congress allowed pizza to be categorized as a "vegetable" with the intent on making it easier for food vendors to comply with USDA guidelines for school lunches. I **** you not!! Sadly, it's all about money and not about the people..
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45306416/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/#.USP-Hmd6Tpc


I had no idea! Why am I not surprised. And I bet you those school pizzas don't have a real onion or real pepper on them. Such a shame. Australians talk about how poor our food supply is here in the U.S.......it's just getting worse, and we're getting fatter and sicker. But boy, are our pharmaceutical, diet, and medical industries booming! :mum I'll stop short of hijacking this thread with a rant.........


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

more fun



> *Self-stimulation reward pathways: Norepinephrine vs dopamine*
> 
> *Abstract*
> 
> Anatomical and pharmacological studies of brain self-stimulation are reviewed. The evidence clearly indicates that central noradrenergic neurons, particularly those in the locus coeruleus, mediate self-stimulation reward. The role of dopaminergic neurons is still unclear. Although electrodes in the dopamine cell groups of the substantia ***** support high rates of self-stimulation, the behaviour is abolished after mechanical or chemical damage to ipsilateral noradrenergic pathways, or after pharmacological inhibition of norepinephrine synthesis.


----------



## yay (Dec 31, 2012)

*Self-stimulation reward pathways* sounds like they're talking about masturbation. :blank


----------



## zibimark (Jun 25, 2013)

*Tianeptine*

Poland is available drug called coaxil (tianeptine), which works exactly the opposite of SSRIs. Increases libido by gently dopaminergic activity.


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

does any body have real exp with low dosage Zyprexa for apathy ? it is used to treat ssri induced apathy/anhedonia


----------



## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

forexworld12 said:


> does any body have real exp with low dosage Zyprexa for apathy ? it is used to treat ssri induced apathy/anhedonia


who in their right mind would try it?


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

watertouch said:


> who in their right mind would try it?


Why not ? its indicated for apathy specifically ssri induced apathy. I am not talking about standard doses for treating schizo or which could cause heavy D2 blockade . a minor dosage like 2.5 mg which preferably increases dopamine and norephenphrine transmission in many parts of the brain ..


----------



## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Generally anhedonia/apathy responds to NRIs or NDRIs. Sometimes other little gems like lamotrigine or thyroid hormone.
Often it's as much a _result_ of medications, as anything (i.e. SSRIs, atypical antipsychotics).

---
*BUT
*
I wonder how one comes to have such faith in company-sponsored studies, and know so little about university-driven studies in the field of psychology. To read studies (or, usually just abstracts, who has time for all that haha) about receptor affinity for 5HT7 or NMDA antagonists. But not have read the compelling research on attributional styles, cognitive processes, processing styles, core schema, and models of social anxiety or depression. To casually dismiss CBT as "tried it once, didn't work" and then to trial endless rounds of medications for _years_, with only incremental gain.

*I am describing myself* 1-2 years ago and know that it is because it sounds interesting to think about physical and more tangible things. And I feel a sense of relief to know that I am not at fault for my own mental illnesses (of course not!). But coins have two sides.

I have the good fortune to have found medication that works for me and lifts the fog: Parnate, Adderall, Lamictal. But I see that I also have cognitive vulnerabilities. I may have learned them over time with repeated difficulties, or maybe they've been around since childhood or teenage years. Everyone's life will have stressors - often they are incredibly painful - and those vulnerabilities open the door for awful demons despite the best medical treatment. Relapse is inevitable for chronic mental illness without addressing them.

Just my two cents! 

---
A classic (links to pdf):

Psychological Review
1989, VoUS, No. 2,358-372
Hopelessness Depression: A Theory-Based Subtype of Depression
Lyn Y. Abramson
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Gerald I. Metalsky
University of Texas at Austin
Lauren B. Alloy
Northwestern University
_We present a revision of the 1978 reformulated theory of helplessness and depression and call it the
hopelessness theory of depression. Although the 1978 reformulation has generated a vast amount of
empirical work on depression over the past 10 years and recently has been evaluated as a model of
depression, we do not think that it presents a clearly articulated theory of depression. We build on
the skeletal logic of the 1978 statement and (a) propose a hypothesized subtype of depression-
hopelessness depression, (b) introduce hopelessness as a proximal sufficient cause of the symptoms of
hopelessness depression, (c) deemphasize causal attributions because inferred negative consequences
and inferred negative characteristics about the self are also postulated to contribute to the formation
of hopelessness and, in turn, the symptoms of hopelessness depression, and (d) clarify the diathesis-stress
and causal mediation components implied, but not explicitly articulated, in the 1978 statement.
We report promising findings for the hopelessness theory and outline the aspects that still need
to be tested._


----------



## Ben12 (Jul 8, 2009)

forexworld12 said:


> Why not ? its indicated for apathy specifically ssri induced apathy. I am not talking about standard doses for treating schizo or which could cause heavy D2 blockade . a minor dosage like 2.5 mg which preferably increases dopamine and norephenphrine transmission in many parts of the brain ..


I've been on Zyprexa. Not as nice as seroquel. But it does have the advantage of not inducing anxiety like seroquel will. I remember really liking video games when on Zyprexa. However it caused such weight gain.


----------



## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Ben12 said:


> I've been on Zyprexa. Not as nice as seroquel. But it does have the advantage of not inducing anxiety like seroquel will. I remember really liking video games when on Zyprexa. However it caused such weight gain.


When I was on zyprexa it also made me become interested in things more so than usual. The problem was that only occured like 2-3 hours a day and the rest of it I was lethargic and always hungry + massive weight gain.

It's good if ur body can handle it. Most people can't handle it with the tight affinity with D2 antagonism.


----------



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

I have anhedonia and I have tried all of the available drugs. The best of them was mirtazapine, but with side effects like sedation/lethargy. I think anhedonia is problem with low dopamine in PFC and low firing of VTA neurons. (mirtazapine increase dopamine in PFC and increase firing of VTA - it's opposite of SSRI effects).

PS. I have tried ketamine infusions without effect (only two, becouse there wasn't effects from them)


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

mikoy said:


> I have anhedonia and I have tried all of the available drugs. The best of them was mirtazapine, but with side effects like sedation/lethargy. I think anhedonia is problem with low dopamine in PFC and low firing of VTA neurons. (mirtazapine increase dopamine in PFC and increase firing of VTA - it's opposite of SSRI effects).
> 
> PS. I have tried ketamine infusions without effect (only two, becouse there wasn't effects from them)


I was removed from mirtazapine today

It makes my ssri induced apathy more "numb" mirtazapine sucks and as far as I know it only increases dopamine in the PFC without any effect of dopamine on any other region.

I am coming from my doctor. got prescribed 50 mg pristiq , armodafinil increased to 100 mg and added a very low dosage of zyrexa 2.5 mg ...

Zyprega on low dosage 2.5 - 4.7 mg increases dopamine in the PFC, Nac and statium . and is also used to reverse ssri induced aspathy.

I hope this combo would work would you let you know


----------



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Dopamine in PFC is crucial. SNRI's, NRI's, alfa-2 antagonists, 5-HT2c antagonist increase dopamine only in PFC and work for depression. Dopamine elevation from olanzapine is big but we must remember that it's D2 antagonist so effect will be blocked in some part.


----------



## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

forexworld12 said:


> does any body have real exp with low dosage Zyprexa for apathy ? it is used to treat ssri induced apathy/anhedonia


Yeah I was on that last year. Doesn't do anything for anhedonia. All psychotropics I've tried make general anhedonia worse. For non-psychotic people, Zyprexa is really good at making you fat and sleepy and that's about it.


----------



## jaiho (Feb 14, 2015)

Noone has mentioned Nortriptyline. It's a potent 5ht2c antagonist with minimal SSRI qualities. It can also be augmented with Parnate.
It's the better of the TCAs for anti choligenic side effects and sedation. It pushes NE hard so i get a stimulating effect from it.

I also use NSI-189 which is very good for Anhedonia, the best success i had was that in combination with Moclobemide. I'm still increasing dose of Nortriptyline and trying that with NSI.


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

mikoy said:


> Dopamine in PFC is crucial. SNRI's, NRI's, alfa-2 antagonists, 5-HT2c antagonist increase dopamine only in PFC and work for depression. Dopamine elevation from olanzapine is big but we must remember that it's D2 antagonist so effect will be blocked in some part.


I have tried agomelatine and mirtazapine . the former gave me depression and the latter made my ssri induced apathy much worse , I guess I mentioned this before .
I have been thinkning about this a lot

I think there is a difference between "anhedonia" and ssri induced "apathy" -

what you are talking about may help anhedonia but What if this is not anhedonia ?

I can anticipate pleasure but the emotions required to "feel" them is missing

Anhedonia is a general lack of enjoyment in pleasurable activities

SSRI induced apathy is like the "Emotions are blocked/ inability to feel"

So generally what works for Anhedonia will not work for apathy.

Both are distinctly different. so I have seen most people with "ssri induced apathy" calling this ssri induced anhedonia" there is where they get it wrong - it's not anhedonia - trying stuff like agomelatine/mirtazapine thinking its gonna help them is not going to work. It requires a different approach and most would not even dream to touch APP

I will let everyone know how olanzapine 2.5 mg + pristiq goes


----------



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Sorry, but agomelatine is ****. It's so weak (and with so short half-life) 5-HT2c antagonist. I pointed out stronger 5-HT2c antagonist (inverse agonist - it's all we have), like mianserin/mirtazapine, amitriptyline, doxepin (I'm not mention about nortriptyline becouse it's not available in my country - from tricyclics we have doxepin/amitriptyline/clomipramine - but nortriptyline is very good - low SRI, NRI is pro dopaminergic in PFC and additionally 5-HT2c antagonism), olanzapine.
I have tried all meds on the market except moclobemide and other (not available in my country) blockers of MAO (I have tried selegiline): all SSRI (from low to upper dosages, like 80 mg paroxetine), bupropion, tianeptine, even ketamine in infusions. Only mirtazapine worked for my like a charm. My symptoms of depression is anhedonia/low motivation/low emotions/somatic symptoms (like sweating, fast hear beat etc.). When mirtazapine worked I have feelings of passion to my hobbies, motivation, there was back of my mood reactivity, lowered sweating and heart beat. Unfortunately for some reasons (I was scared of all the emotions that came back to me) I dropped this drug. However another approach to this drug was ineffective. I'm going to try upper dosage (like 90-120 mg).

SSRI don't work for my depression and causes more amotivation/apathy/blunting of emotions.

If it's not anhedonia - only something like apathy, then stimulants would be good - like bupropion, NRIs, SNRIs, methylphenidate, traditionally MAO's, selegiline etc.

Mirtazapine is sedating (becouse 5-HT2 and H1 antagonism), but it could be motivational/stimulant becouse alpha-2 antagonism and 5-HT2c antagonism - sometimes lowered cortisol could be motivational/more energy producing.

I have read many of articles/books about anhedonia/apathy from SSRI's and anhedonia in general. Like I said it's mailny problem with dopamine in PFC and low firing of VTA neurons. SSRI lower dopamine in PFC and lower firing of VTA - that's why they can cause anhedonia/apathy.

Increasing dopamine in PFC and increasing firing of VTA neurons should help with this. Olanzapine (with SNRI or fluoxetine) is good becouse it's synergistically increase dopamine in PFC. NRI's increase dopamine in PFC and increase firing of VTA (just like mirtazapine).


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

mikoy said:


> Sorry, but agomelatine is ****. It's so weak (and with so short half-life) 5-HT2c antagonist. I pointed out stronger 5-HT2c antagonist (inverse agonist - it's all we have), like mianserin/mirtazapine, amitriptyline, doxepin (I'm not mention about nortriptyline becouse it's not available in my country - from tricyclics we have doxepin/amitriptyline/clomipramine - but nortriptyline is very good - low SRI, NRI is pro dopaminergic in PFC and additionally 5-HT2c antagonism), olanzapine.
> I have tried all meds on the market except moclobemide and other (not available in my country) blockers of MAO (I have tried selegiline): all SSRI (from low to upper dosages, like 80 mg paroxetine), bupropion, tianeptine, even ketamine in infusions. Only mirtazapine worked for my like a charm. My symptoms of depression is anhedonia/low motivation/low emotions/somatic symptoms (like sweating, fast hear beat etc.). When mirtazapine worked I have feelings of passion to my hobbies, motivation, there was back of my mood reactivity, lowered sweating and heart beat. Unfortunately for some reasons (I was scared of all the emotions that came back to me) I dropped this drug. However another approach to this drug was ineffective. I'm going to try upper dosage (like 90-120 mg).
> 
> SSRI don't work for my depression and causes more amotivation/apathy/blunting of emotions.
> ...


What about Asenapine instead of Olanzapine? 
5-HT1a partial agonism, 5-HT2c & 7 antagonism, alpha-2 antagonism, etc.


----------



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Could be good - it have all good properties - 5-HT1a agonism, 5-HT2c antagonism, alpha-2 antagonism, but the main question is about proportions about all that and D2 (and other D receptors) antagonism. We could have very much dopamine but when it's blocked it's useful.

PS. It's not available in my country so I can't check it on myself.


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

mikoy said:


> Sorry, but agomelatine is ****. It's so weak (and with so short half-life) 5-HT2c antagonist. I pointed out stronger 5-HT2c antagonist (inverse agonist - it's all we have), like mianserin/mirtazapine, amitriptyline, doxepin (I'm not mention about nortriptyline becouse it's not available in my country - from tricyclics we have doxepin/amitriptyline/clomipramine - but nortriptyline is very good - low SRI, NRI is pro dopaminergic in PFC and additionally 5-HT2c antagonism), olanzapine.
> I have tried all meds on the market except moclobemide and other (not available in my country) blockers of MAO (I have tried selegiline): all SSRI (from low to upper dosages, like 80 mg paroxetine), bupropion, tianeptine, even ketamine in infusions. Only mirtazapine worked for my like a charm. My symptoms of depression is anhedonia/low motivation/low emotions/somatic symptoms (like sweating, fast hear beat etc.). When mirtazapine worked I have feelings of passion to my hobbies, motivation, there was back of my mood reactivity, lowered sweating and heart beat. Unfortunately for some reasons (I was scared of all the emotions that came back to me) I dropped this drug. However another approach to this drug was ineffective. I'm going to try upper dosage (like 90-120 mg).
> 
> SSRI don't work for my depression and causes more amotivation/apathy/blunting of emotions.
> ...


 Olanzapine Increases dopamine firing in the PFC, NAC and stratium despite being a 5ht2c inverse agonist but somehow it does.

Regarding the 5HT2C . Inverse agonists have been shown to inhibit dopamine outflow ..

*In addition, mirtazapine's antagonism of 5-HT2A receptors has beneficial effects on anxiety, sleep and appetite, as well as sexual function regarding the latter receptor.[5][45] The newest research however has shown that mirtazapine is actually an inverse agonist of the 5-HT2C receptor. 5-HT2C inverse agonists have been shown to inhibit mesoaccumbens dopamine outflow[89] *

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=48D529E0B7756BF51E980F41C0A35FE1.f02t04

I guess you have depression not SSRI induced problems that is why mirtazapine worked so good but majority of the people with ssri induced inability to feel - feel the same way that it makes them more numb .. If mirtazapine is so good at increasing dopamine then I guess it should have been effective for Me but it's not .. this is where I feel anhedonia is different and apathy is different . while anhedonia is low dopamine, norphenphrine in the PFC I beleive the mesolimbic system(NAC and VTA) are the main area of target for ssri induced apathy ..!


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

mikoy said:


> Could be good - it have all good properties - 5-HT1a agonism, 5-HT2c antagonism, alpha-2 antagonism, but the main question is about proportions about all that and D2 (and other D receptors) antagonism. We could have very much dopamine but when it's blocked it's useful.


I think in low dosage(olanzaine) the d2 blockade is remote and while on 5 mg and above it becomes significant


----------



## jaiho (Feb 14, 2015)

really, inverse agonists block dopamine? But 5ht2c downregulation increases dopamine/NE release?
The action of an inverse agonist is blockade & downregulation. weird.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

forexworld12 said:


> I think in low dosage(olanzaine) the d2 blockade is remote and while on 5 mg and above it becomes significant


At low doses the D2 blockade would theoretically be mostly at pre synaptic receptors and could enhance DA outflow (think Amisulpride).


----------



## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Based on this one would think Seroquel/quetiapine to be a good choice among antipsychotics:









These are all generally sedating - not usually a formula for getting out of bed and finally cleaning that scary bathroom, or enjoying a sunset. Weight gain is also not helpful. In general I do not think low dose antipsychotics are the way to go for most apathy/anhedonia/hypodopamingeric symptoms. They can help with adequate care for a lot of people but usually in other aspects.

Try something called "activity tracking". You can easily google this. Print some pages, do activity tracking for 1-2 weeks (or longer if you feel like it) and look at the results. You may find that mood and motivation vary throughout the day - maybe diurnally, or maybe in response to what you do or where you are. When you find the "helpers" and "triggers" you can attempt to do those things that you know will help, and limit or address the things that trigger a poor mood. (Within reason. You don't want to pursue maladaptive coping strategies.) Be a detective about your brain and mood.

I learned a lot about myself from activity tracking. It also affirmed some of the "general ideas" I always hear about how to manage depression. One of my biggest "triggers" is to sleep in and lounge around on weekends. By 2:00PM if I've stayed home all day in pajamas, I feel like a braindead slug and just awful. Even my anxiety is worse. I need to wake up at the same time every day, and get dressed, and leave my house every day - in the morning - and even if it's just for a walk or drive or an errand. This strategy alone can make or break my entire day.

Activity tracking is free, has no side effects, you can start it right now instead of waiting for the doctor, and might have a higher general likelihood of working compared to unfamiliar medications. Just my two cents. Feel better!


----------



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

*forexworld12* I know this "news" about dopamine and 5-HT2c inverse agonist. I don't think they "block" dopamine - it's something like modulation not blockade. That's why we want pure, and strong 5-HT2c antagonist.

There are some research about 5-HTc inverse agonist and dopamine, like this one:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002130000420

"Amitriptyline and mianserin significantly increased DA release (+31.1±7.9% and +33.6±4.3%, respectively) at the higher doses. In addition, lower doses of mianserin (2.5 mg/kg i.p.) and amitriptyline (5 mg/kg i.p.) blocked the inhibitory action of RO 60-0175 (1 mg/kg i.p.), a selective 5-HT2C receptor agonist, on DA release. The effect of RO 60-0175 (1 mg/kg i.p.) was completely blocked by SB 242084 (2.5 mg/kg i.p.), a selective and powerful 5-HT2C receptor antagonist. Taken together, these data indicate that amitriptyline and mianserin increase DA release in the nucleus accumbens by blocking 5-HT2C receptors"

I know mianserin is also alpha-2 blocker (but alpha-2 blockers don't increase dopamine in NAC) and amitriptyline is NRI. There is also downregulation of this receptors with 5-HT2c inverse agonist (like jaiho said), so with time there will be more dopamine.

Olanzapine increase dopamine in PFC probably via D2+5-HT2a antagonism. Maybe some of it's effects is from weak alpha-2 antagonism. We must also know that M receptor antagonism could increase dopamine in some brain areas. Some anticholinergics could cause euphoria, mood elevation, mania etc. Acetylcholine is in contra to dopamine.

Mirtazapine alpha-2 and maybe 5-HT2c antagonism is good in increasing dopamine, but 5-HT3, 5-HT2a are not (5-HT3 and 5-HT2a angonism increase dopamine in NAC and PFC). Maybe you should try larger doses? It's not ideal drug.

If you want to increase dopamine in NAC it's problem. Not many drugs do this. We should know that PFC and VTA project to NAC.

PS. About sedating drugs and activity - it's true with depressions with low HPA axis activity (atypical ones), but when there is depression with HPA hyperactivity (endogenous/melancholia) sedation is needed - sedation with drugs come almost always with decrease in HPA axis (H1 antagonists, 5-HT2a and 5-HT2c antagonists, 5-HT3 antagonists, M antagonists - to a certain degree, benzos - all lower cortisol and decrease activity of HPA axis). HPA axis hyperactivity not always means much of energy - see people with Cushing - fatigue is common.


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

This my 2nd day on pristiq 50 mg 

Damn this **** is worse that ssri lol despite being very less potent on SERT .. I feel very irritable and there is this sense of resltessness in my chest. Other side effects like sleepiness, fatigue,dissiness , nausea , constipation have started too. maybe its the NRI effect 
Escitalopram was better in the sense it didn't cause resltessness and irritatiblity despie making the apathy worse 

I haven't been able to try olanzapine 2.5 mg . I don't know I just got numbly scared reading about neuroleptic malignant syndrome. lol 
I beleive the key lies in APP to treat ssri induced apathy.. just need some courage


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

```

```



jim_morrison said:


> At low doses the D2 blockade would theoretically be mostly at pre synaptic receptors and could enhance DA outflow (think Amisulpride).


Could be you know .. AFAK I think olanzapine increases dopamine the biggest out of all APP and in the core regions of brain. I was thinknig about amisulrpide too but then I read that most develop tolerance to it


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

mikoy said:


> *forexworld12* I know this "news" about dopamine and 5-HT2c inverse agonist. I don't think they "block" dopamine - it's something like modulation not blockade. That's why we want pure, and strong 5-HT2c antagonist.
> 
> There are some research about 5-HTc inverse agonist and dopamine, like this one:
> 
> ...


Yes I have read that paper before . maybe the increase in NAC is dual 5ht2c Inverse agonism synergy ..because mianserin failed to modify dopamine levels alone in the stufy below

*The atypical antidepressant mianserin, administered at doses of 1, 5 and 10 mg/kg SC, dose-dependently increased up to about 6 times extracellular dopamine in the medial prefrontal cortex of the rat, as estimated by vertical concentric microdialysis probes. Mianserin failed to modify extracellular dopamine in the nucleus accumbens. Mianserin also dose-dependently increased extracellular noradrenaline in the prefrontal cortex. Yohimbine, an alpha2 antagonist, increased extracellular dopamine in the prefrontal cortex but the maximal increase was lower than that elicited by mianserin. Yohimbine also increased extracellular noradrenaline in the prefrontal cortex, but to a lesser extent than dopamine..!*

I would have done the above combination a long time ago if it wasn't risky but it is !

Olanzapine(only low dosage) just doesn't increase dopamine in the PFC but it also raises dopamine in the nucleus accumbens and striatum.

*The in vivo effects of olanzapine on the extracellular monoamine levels in rat prefrontal cortex (Pfc), nucleus accumbens (Acb) and striatum (Cpu) were investigated by means of microdialysis. Sequential doses of olanzapine at 0.5, 3 and 10 mg/kg (s.c.) dose-dependently increased the extracellular dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) levels in all three brain areas. The increases appeared 30 min after olanzapine administration, reached peaks around 60-90 min and lasted for at least 2 h. The highest DA increases in the Acb and Cpu were induced by olanzapine at 3 mg/kg but at 10 mg/kg in the Pfc. The peak DA increase in the Pfc (421% +/- 46 of the baseline) was significantly larger than those in the Acb (287% +/- 24) and Cpu (278% +/- 28). Similarly, the highest NE increase in the Pfc (414% +/- 40) induced by 10 mg/kg olanzapine was larger than those in the Acb (233% +/- 39) and Cpu (223% +/- 24). The DA and NE increases in the Pfc induced by olanzapine at 3 and 10 mg/kg (s.c.) were slightly larger than those induced by clozapine at the same doses.*

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9551772
who knows maybe it also increases dopamine in VTA, hypothalamus etc but the studies haven't covered this area??

Maybe this why it's effective for treating ssri induced apathy usually combined with fluoxetine( ssri with 5ht2c)

but here the synergy of both drugs(olanzapine flouxetine) shows dopamine increase only in the PFC and hypothalamus but not in the Nac

So I am not sure if olanzapine is effective for ssri induced apathy alone or combined with floxetine .. *what do you think ?*

Amisulpride also increases Dopamine levels in the NAC at doses below 50 mg . however with this drug tolerance is a big issue . Another one is methyphenidate which is a stimulant ..

What do you think about serequel ?

Anhedonia/apathy + PSSD( Post ssri sexual dysfunction) I am sure is not caused by Frontal lobe dysfunction(ssri induced) . it's more like dopamine inhibition in the NAC and VTA via serotonin flood disrupting these reward pathways

here is a recent study

*as a central relay-structure, the Nac seems to play a central role in MDD symptomatology. We investigated its role as a primary target for DBS in depressed patients. Anatomically the Nac is at the centre of the interactions between dopaminergic, serotoninergic and glutamatergic systems. Functionally, the Nac is involved in both normal and abnormal reward processes and in anhedonia and loss of motivation. Due to its central location between the emotional system, the cognitive system and motor control system, the Nac seems to have a central role in mood and feeling regulation.
*
http://www.jmolecularpsychiatry.com/content/1/1/17


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

I think I am going to quit the pristiq 50 mg . Its causing mild depersonalization..


----------



## piyush3dxyz (Jul 12, 2013)

forexworld12 said:


> I think I am going to quit the pristiq 50 mg . Its causing mild depersonalization..


i have taken prestiq and most of ssri...
they are garbage for adhedonia


----------



## forexworld12 (Jul 30, 2012)

piyush3dxyz said:


> i have taken prestiq and most of ssri...
> they are garbage for adhedonia


Yes I have quit pristiq. took it for 2 days .. no benifit at all only side effects ..there is some withdrawal symptoms at the moment


----------



## piyush3dxyz (Jul 12, 2013)

forexworld12 said:


> Yes I have quit pristiq. took it for 2 days .. no benifit at all only side effects ..there is some withdrawal symptoms at the moment


@ 
the antidepressant that moderately touched my adhedonia is nortryriptline...
its work if your adhedonia is not much cholinergic.....


----------



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

*forexworld12* in this research drugs were tested singly not in combination.


----------



## TonyH (Mar 8, 2015)

I had the same. Now its just pssd and sexual anhedonia. IKR JUST! FML


----------

