# Finding a reason to live



## lovelysyringa

Since I don't believe in god or any other higher power, I find myself debating why it's worth it to be alive. I know this is highly depressing, I guess I sometimes feel like nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Any thoughts?


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## Luna Sea

I'm still working on that


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## lovelysyringa

I am getting nowhere.


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## Millais

I struggle with finding meaning in my life too. I don't think that believing in God would help either. I guess I am depressed.

I suppose you have to find your own meaning.

There are plenty of things to do and see and discover and learn about.

*I also find that growing older is an experience in itself.*

Your perspective and opinions on things can change (eg wanting to have children, your taste in music, movies and books).

I also just have this curiosity to see the next day... to see the next sunrise... because something good might happen and if I'm dead I will miss it.


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## Luna Sea

lovelysyringa said:


> I am getting nowhere.


You're at college, right? So you're going somewhere, you just doing know where yet. Maybe.


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## lovelysyringa

I am...but it all still seems meaningless. Everyone will die eventually. I do find it rather odd that life exists in the first place.


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## Millais

lovelysyringa said:


> I am...but it all still seems meaningless. Everyone will die eventually. I do find it rather odd that life exists in the first place.


Have you heard Bill Hicks' quote about life being 'just a ride'?

Check it out on Youtube.


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## Luna Sea

Yeah, if you think in big terms, it's all pointless. The only real reason to live is to enjoy it, and if you don't do that, I don't see why anyone should bother.


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## lovelysyringa

Haha and with SA and depression, I'm not enjoying it.


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## applesauce5482

I feel that way a lot :/

I go through phases feelin like that. Maybe try to find a hobby and focus on that?


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## Luna Sea

I haven't enjoyed my life in a long time, but I keep on for some reason that eludes me.


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## lovelysyringa

I live for the people who would care if I died. If that makes sense.


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## Luna Sea

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm a little too selfish to put myself through life just for the family who would be upset (and when I'm bad, I think it's selfish of them to demand that of me). To be honest the main reason I'm alive is because our society has done a good job in making sure that suicide isn't easy.


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## Foh_Teej

I'm truly curious as to why you think beliefs in a higher power -or not- have anything to do with having a reason to live or not. You can completely remove it from the premise and the thought is still valid.


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## lovelysyringa

If I believed I had a purpose, a plan, or belief in an afterlife, it would be much easier to be alive. I feel that it is connected.


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## LordScott

need a hug? i gotch you


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## Random Dude

Biologically, our purpose in life is to reproduce and spread our genes but the days when this was actually relevant have passed. I think there really is no default, preset or universal purpose to life unless you come up with one yourself. I have been lucky enough to find things that I enjoy and that I want to pursue or continue doing and I consider that to be my purpose. Anyway, whatever you do, in the grand scheme of things, you are absolutely irrelevant .


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## anthrotex

My reason for living is to laugh and make others laugh. If I can't do that, I can be a shoulder for them to cry on. In the meantime, I go to school to further my education so that I can make breakthroughs in life that make life easier for others.


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## TigerRifle1

Foh_Teej said:


> I'm truly curious as to why you think beliefs in a higher power -or not- have anything to do with having a reason to live or not. You can completely remove it from the premise and the thought is still valid.


 If someone fears the punishment of a higher power that would be a deterrent to suicide which would in turn force someone to find a reason to live.


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## Luna Sea

It's not just the fear of punishment, it's heaven as well. If you believe in something after life, it's worth trying so you get as nice an eternity as possible. If you believe we're just electrical impulses in the brain and when that dies, we cease to exist; why bother?


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## RelinquishedHell

lovelysyringa said:


> Since I don't believe in god or any other higher power, I find myself debating why it's worth it to be alive. I know this is highly depressing, I guess I sometimes feel like nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Any thoughts?











I think I need to send you a serious hug!














:squeeze :squeeze :squeeze :squeeze


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## Foh_Teej

TigerRifle1 said:


> If someone fears the punishment of a higher power that would be a deterrent to suicide which would in turn force someone to find a reason to live.


but the premise is still independent of that


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## regimes

i really don't understand why believing in a supernatural being enables a person to enjoy life.. last time i checked, you don't need a god to pursue happiness. life is awesome. you're playing your own sims game. there are endless possibilities- and there's so much to do and experience. when you were a kid, did you worry about whether or not there was a god and what that meant, or did you just have fun playing tag with your friends?

make a list of what is awesome in life. from tiny things like the smell of coffee and air conditioning on a hot day, to huge things like getting accepted to college and getting a promotion. or having a good day without stressing about SAD. that's what you live for. and those reasons are countless- infinite. longer lasting than some rules set by a mythical deity or some prophetic regurgitation of paradise after life. we don't know what comes after life, and that's okay. that's natural. it's okay for there to be unknown things out there, that maybe we may never know about for certain- not at least until we get there ourselves. but life is priceless and there are boundless reasons for you to live.


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## Unkn0wn Pleasures

Being alive is just the defuault, for now. Life is pointless, afterlife probably is to.


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## Mirror

It's not exactly a reason, but just that there's possibility, neither good nor bad. But everything goes on because of a possibility. Like, if it can, it will.


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## CWe

This thread as depressing as f***! i believe in God and i dont believe were just useless, but who knows! maybe were just pieces of cow sh**.


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## CWe

regimes said:


> i really don't understand why believing in a supernatural being enables a person to enjoy life.. last time i checked, you don't need a god to pursue happiness. life is awesome. you're playing your own sims game. there are endless possibilities- and there's so much to do and experience. when you were a kid, did you worry about whether or not there was a god and what that meant, or did you just have fun playing tag with your friends?
> 
> make a list of what is awesome in life. from tiny things like the smell of coffee and air conditioning on a hot day, to huge things like getting accepted to college and getting a promotion. or having a good day without stressing about SAD. that's what you live for. and those reasons are countless- infinite. longer lasting than some rules set by a mythical deity or some prophetic regurgitation of paradise after life. we don't know what comes after life, and that's okay. that's natural. it's okay for there to be unknown things out there, that maybe we may never know about for certain- not at least until we get there ourselves. but life is priceless and there are boundless reasons for you to live.


This just made me mad! easy for you to say! not much for me.


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## sas111

I'll just leave this here.






I find it relieving.


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## danberado

CWe said:


> This just made me mad! easy for you to say! not much for me.


Optimism makes you mad?


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## Beamer

It seems pretty simple to me. 

I am right in the middle of the worst time in my life right now. I've lost most of the hope I had. I don't want to check out, though. I have memories of being happy and I know that happiness can be felt once again through one means or another. I never know what is going to happen in the future. I know I probably won't get what I really want, but that doesn't mean there won't be some great experiences ahead - ones that I don't want to miss. Maybe there won't be... oh well. If the rest of my life is a boiling pot of ****, I'll die knowing I tried, and then nothing will matter after that.

Why not let life pan out? You won't get another chance to exist.


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## Selbbin

I don't really feel there is a reason other than a curiosity about what's going to happen.


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## Selbbin

CWe said:


> This thread as depressing as f***! i believe in God and i dont believe were just useless, but who knows! maybe were just pieces of cow sh**.


Well, in the end, in the cycle of life, we do eat things that grew from cow **** so there is some logic to that....


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## orchidsandviolins

I live to have a family one day. Be a mother.


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## Noca

I live to help others, and have fun while doing so. The fact that this is volunteer work and not slave obligation to some god makes it enjoyable. Also knowing that my help is appreciated by a human being and not by some imaginary fairy god is comforting as well.


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## avoidobot3000

Finding a reason not to live is just as difficult; living only for a god that might not exist is ridiculous--the only option left is to live and live for man. Doing something for others would give you a cause, pride, and make you feel valued by others--even if it's by doing something creative that you enjoy. Do something that you can believe in, not necessarily focused on whether or not _one _gets into heaven. But if you can live a spiritual life while serving mankind, hey, that's great too.


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## LynnNBoys

regimes said:


> i really don't understand why believing in a supernatural being enables a person to enjoy life.. last time i checked, you don't need a god to pursue happiness. life is awesome. you're playing your own sims game. there are endless possibilities- and there's so much to do and experience. when you were a kid, did you worry about whether or not there was a god and what that meant, or did you just have fun playing tag with your friends?
> 
> make a list of what is awesome in life. from tiny things like the smell of coffee and air conditioning on a hot day, to huge things like getting accepted to college and getting a promotion. or having a good day without stressing about SAD. that's what you live for. and those reasons are countless- infinite. longer lasting than some rules set by a mythical deity or some prophetic regurgitation of paradise after life. we don't know what comes after life, and that's okay. that's natural. it's okay for there to be unknown things out there, that maybe we may never know about for certain- not at least until we get there ourselves. but life is priceless and there are boundless reasons for you to live.


I really enjoyed reading this! And I agree! Find what makes you happy, what makes you passionate--and pursue those activities/things. I try to live by the principle: First, do no harm. I'm very crunchy-granola and want to live as green as possible within my means--that makes me happy. I want to leave my place here on Earth a little better than when I arrived.

But as someone who struggles with depression, I understand that some days it takes everything I have to make it through the day, to get out of bed and do the things I need to do. I have 2 sons and on my darkest of days they are my only reason for staying alive. A child shouldn't have to grow up without a mom.


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## wordscancutyoulikeglass

For me, I've been agnostic for less than a year and I feel constantly depressed and find it hard to find reasons to keep going. Truly, I keep going because I'm not sure of what will happen in the afterlife, or if there even is an afterlife, or perhaps simply another life, but this could be my only shot at living on Earth, so I'm going to stay here as long as I can and savor it until it's gone.


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## Farideh

I have a reason to live. I am choosing to not take my own life because first of all, I'm too much of a coward to commit suicide and second of all, because I don't want to leave my family. I wouldn't want to break my family's hearts. I really don't. I love them so much and I know that they love me too no matter how many arguments we get into with each other.


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## duckie

money, food, smokes, internet, poker, video games, movies, music... do i need to list more? 
that is plenty to keep me busy everyday... once you get past the "i don't want to live" phase then and only then can you start enjoying life.


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## Foh_Teej

humidity said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I am not here to argue or debate, but I would like to clarify some things. I speak for Christianity. I have read through this thread and thought that if perhaps these people are talking about Christianity, I should clarify some common misunderstandings.
> 
> *Christianity is not a religion.* What people on this thread described is in fact religion... trying to earn your ticket into heaven... and that is in fact a miserable way to live. But not Christianity. Christianity is about Jesus (who is God) earning our ticket into heaven for us. He did everything required to reconcile us with God. By trusting Jesus and his finished work on our behalf, a person is given a free ticket to heaven and becomes a child of God, forever to remain infinitely loved by God. There is no other work required for a Christian to go to heaven other then put their trust in Jesus, that Jesus has already done it all.
> 
> Jesus has endured infinite wrath of the Father on the cross... he has experienced all the hell that you and me deserve, he did it all on the cross... his physical suffering was not even comparable to the spiritual hell that he felt on the cross. He suffered spiritual death and physical death in order so that those who put their trust in him and his finished work, will not die, but live with him forever.
> 
> Now, if you believe this great news, that you don't have to earn your way into heaven and that it is given to you for free, and that God himself suffered more than any other creature in the universe ever has or will just so that he could make this salvation possible for you, your heart will change:
> 
> Think of it this way. Imagine you had this one best friend since childhood. You both grew up and he became a judge, and you became a criminal. You ended up committing a murder and were on trial with your best friend as your judge. Your best friend loves you, he wishes with all his heart that you do not get the punishment of the death penalty. He wants to pardon you and set you free! But if he sets you free, what is he going to say to the family of the murdered victim? He will be a wicked and unjust judge! He cannot pardon you because justice demands punishment, yet he cannot condemn you to death because he loves you. So what he ends up doing is taking your death penalty onto himself and dies for you. He steps in to take your punishment onto himself, in order to set you completely free... and you are in fact set free to return to the world.
> 
> What would your reaction be if your best friend did this for you? Would you want to continue to commit more murders and crimes after your best friend laid down his live out of love for you? This illustration shows what God did for us, how he became a man and died in our place in order to set us free.
> 
> What makes a real Christian, is when their heart is changed and moved by the love and sacrifice of their heavenly father. If he was willing to suffer so much in order to save us, then we don't want to continue to sin, we want to obey him because we love him. Our obedience does not maintain or earn our salvation, Jesus has already earned our salvation... the Christian life is about serving God because he has already saved us... we love him and want to please him all because of how much he already loves us.
> 
> Think of it this way: two wives are tirelessly trying to please their husband. One wife is tired and joyless and depressed as she works hard to please her husband, the other wife is joyful and never gets tired from trying to please her husband. The first wife works hard in order so that her husband will love her, the second wife works hard because her husband already loves her. This is the difference between all the other religions and Christianity.
> 
> How do we show that we love God? Jesus said that the greatest commandment and the whole purpose of our life on earth is to love him with all our heart, and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves (neighbor means everyone who you come in contact with in your life).
> 
> Again, like I said, I'm not gonna debate here of whether God exists or any other things. I am just trying to clarify what it is that Christians believe, and how we live.


*Definition of religion:*

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith

*Word spin it how you wish but don't ****ing bold face lie about it.*


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## albrecht

humidity said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I am not here to argue or debate, but I would like to clarify some things. I speak for Christianity. I have read through this thread and thought that if perhaps these people are talking about Christianity, I should clarify some common misunderstandings.


Which Christianity do you represent?



> Christianity is not a religion.


Here you just said you were representing Christianity and you've already told your first lie. Honestly, how long are Christians actually going to keep this self-deluding marketing campaign of "Christianity isn't a religion"? _You are not convincing anyone but yourselves._ No one buys it.



> What people on this thread described is in fact religion... trying to earn your ticket into heaven... and that is in fact a miserable way to live.


Nothing in the definition of religion defines it as "trying to earn your ticket into heaven."



> But not Christianity. Christianity is about Jesus (who is God) earning our ticket into heaven for us. He did everything required to reconcile us with God. By trusting Jesus and his finished work on our behalf, a person is given a free ticket to heaven and becomes a child of God, forever to remain infinitely loved by God. There is no other work required for a Christian to go to heaven other then put their trust in Jesus, that Jesus has already done it all.


For someone who is supposedly devoting their life to this teaching, you haven't thought it through very well. "Putting your trust in Jesus" = trying to earn your way to Jesus' favor, because in your religion Jesus will send you to _unless_ you put your trust in him. Hence, you earn Jesus' favor by putting trust in him. How do you put your trust in him? By obeying the rules of whatever your tradition within Christianity happens to be. So from the basic premise of having to earn Jesus' favor through putting faith in him you run right back into the premise you're criticizing - "earning your way to heaven."



> Jesus has endured infinite wrath of the Father on the cross...


For most people, 3 days (or, really, 2.5) doesn't really count as "infinite."



> he has experienced all the hell that you and me deserve, he did it all on the cross...


Why do you think you deserve hell?



> his physical suffering was not even comparable to the spiritual hell that he felt on the cross.


By 'spiritual' do you mean emotional or do you mean something else?



> He suffered spiritual death and physical death in order so that those who put their trust in him and his finished work, will not die, but live with him forever.


Why did he have to do that? Why didn't he just ask people to put their trust in him? Or did God need the crucifixion as the equivalent of fireworks and cage dancers to get humans' attention?



> Now, if you believe this great news, that you don't have to earn your way into heaven and that it is given to you for free, and that God himself suffered more than any other creature in the universe ever has or will just so that he could make this salvation possible for you, your heart will change:


But you've already established that you _do_ have to earn your way to heaven, even on your model of Christianity. That's false advertising. It's the old "free with purchase" trick. It's not "free." It's included in the price (faith).



> Think of it this way. Imagine you had this one best friend since childhood. You both grew up and he became a judge, and you became a criminal. You ended up committing a murder and were on trial with your best friend as your judge. Your best friend loves you, he wishes with all his heart that you do not get the punishment of the death penalty.


Wouldn't there be a massive conflict of interest in there somewhere? I don't think having a childhood buddy judge your case is exactly impartial. If I were a lawyer I'd certainly protest.



> He wants to pardon you and set you free! But if he sets you free, what is he going to say to the family of the murdered victim? He will be a wicked and unjust judge!


Yeah. That's the conflict of interest.



> He cannot pardon you because justice demands punishment, yet he cannot condemn you to death because he loves you. So what he ends up doing is taking your death penalty onto himself and dies for you.


That's not justice and it isn't done out of love. It's just stupid and unnecessary.



> He steps in to take your punishment onto himself, in order to set you completely free... and you are in fact set free to return to the world.


How does that solve _anything_? Do you think that would make the victims feel any better - that just having _anyone_ punished is justice?



> What would your reaction be if your best friend did this for you?


I would be puzzled and disappointed.



> Would you want to continue to commit more murders and crimes after your best friend laid down his live out of love for you?


First of all, _no_ justice system would do that. There's nothing just in it. Suppose you have two children. One does something bad, so you plan on punishing him by sending him to his room. The other child, not wanting to see her brother punished, volunteers to take the punishment. Do you think it would be fair for you to assent and punish the sister? And, anyway, what kind of selfish ******* would accept that kind of sacrifice?



> What makes a real Christian, is when their heart is changed and moved by the love and sacrifice of their heavenly father.


God wants us to fear and love him and feel sorry for him at the same time?



> If he was willing to suffer so much in order to save us, then we don't want to continue to sin, we want to obey him because we love him.


You forgot to mention the whole "eternal torture" thing. There's a stick and carrot you're leaving out.



> Our obedience does not maintain or earn our salvation, Jesus has already earned our salvation...


Then why the **** should I bother to become a Christian if Jesus did all the work?



> the Christian life is about serving God because he has already saved us...


Why does God need to be served?



> we love him and want to please him all because of how much he already loves us.


Why would God need to be pleased?

pquote]
Think of it this way: two wives are tirelessly trying to please their husband. One wife is tired and joyless and depressed as she works hard to please her husband, the other wife is joyful and never gets tired from trying to please her husband. The first wife works hard in order so that her husband will love her, the second wife works hard because her husband already loves her. This is the difference between all the other religions and Christianity. [/quote]

The God of the Old Testament is like a husband who promises his wife that he will be kind to her as long as she obeys him. When she displeases him, he beats the living **** out of her (and others who displease him). The God of the New Testament is like a husband who constantly nags his wife about how much he does for her and how much he sacrifices for her and how she ought to love him more because he's so nice to her and then says if she doesn't love him more he'll tie her to the radiator and torture her forever. Christianity is just like a lot of other theistic religions in that it promises happiness for belief and suffering for unbelief. Are you depressed? Believe more! Did the surgery not go well? Believe more! Are you struggling to pay for groceries? Believe more!



> How do we show that we love God? Jesus said that the greatest commandment and the whole purpose of our life on earth is to love him with all our heart, and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves (neighbor means everyone who you come in contact with in your life).


The latter makes sense. I don't see why God would care about being loved by creatures who, in your belief system, are supposedly totally depraved.


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## britisharrow

lovelysyringa said:


> Since I don't believe in god or any other higher power, I find myself debating why it's worth it to be alive. I know this is highly depressing, I guess I sometimes feel like nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Any thoughts?


You are one of very few people, only 6 billion in the entire universe, to be a human being and live on this planet. In physics terms, merely a small crowd. Yes, it is a roller-coaster and it can be very difficult. However, life is a privileged denied to millions.

The reason to live? You're going to be a long time dead so you might as well get as much happiness as you can out of as many years as possible. The reason we're here, no one really knows. There are only theories as to how we got here.

At the end of the day, just take the trip and go with it, find the reasons to live in the things you enjoy, and if you haven't found those yet, then your reason to live is the mission in finding that happiness.


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## Kittyfreak

lovelysyringa said:


> Since I don't believe in god or any other higher power, I find myself debating why it's worth it to be alive. I know this is highly depressing, I guess I sometimes feel like nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Any thoughts?


I feel the same. It's frustrating.

I also fear death for the same reason, I don't believe in anything so I struggle with the thought of non existence.


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## harrison

*Hi from Australia!*



britisharrow said:


> You are one of very few people, only 6 billion in the entire universe, to be a human being and live on this planet. In physics terms, merely a small crowd. Yes, it is a roller-coaster and it can be very difficult. However, life is a privileged denied to millions.
> 
> The reason to live? You're going to be a long time dead so you might as well get as much happiness as you can out of as many years as possible. The reason we're here, no one really knows. There are only theories as to how we got here.
> 
> At the end of the day, just take the trip and go with it, find the reasons to live in the things you enjoy, and if you haven't found those yet, then your reason to live is the mission in finding that happiness.


I reckon this is a great post and I wouldn't be able to say it any better. All I would add is that when my son was born - 18 years ago now - I saw life very differently - I now realize that life is a pretty special gift.


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## Hopeful25




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## bsd3355

The idea that there _has_ to be reason for everything is a human complex. Even if there is supposed to be reason for everything, we has humans want to control even that, saying it needs to be there and there needs to be a conclusion to what WE want. I guess I have to ask the question, why do we feel the need to want everything to have purpose or a reason?

The truth is we can't look to God to say He is reason, especially if he doesn't exist. If you want reason then look around. Reason is everywhere. People want to control their lives after their dead and they want reason even after death like a legacy. Other animals don't care about this, why should we? It is almost a selfish and egotistic desire, much like religion.


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## Mauricio5

My reason to live is being too scared to die. Simple but enough.


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## Josie

I find that my lack of a belief in any sort of afterlife or reincarnation is a reason in itself to live. When life isn't going so well, I push myself to do anything within my control to make it enjoyable, because it's the only one I have and the sands of time will never stop running for anyone. It may be meaningless after I'm gone, but at least I got to hang on for the ride.


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## nomoreants

You can't sort it out by thinking . just keep doing what you like. a day will come when you are totally aligned with what you are doing and what you really want. that will be the meaning of life.


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## Charcoal

I just want to know what happens next, maybe if I say enough is enough I'll miss the best part.


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## Xenos

Mauricio5 said:


> My reason to live is being too scared to die. Simple but enough.


This is mostly the case for me too, especially in my worst moments. But I worry about what might happen if the pain of living ever outweighs the fear of dying.

I really want to have a positive reason to live, not just a negative reason for avoiding death. I don't have that, at the moment. But it's my goal.


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## itthing21

I know I'll eventually die, so I want to create things that will be enjoyed life after I die. I write books and draw, but everyone has there own means.


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## jg43i9jghy0t4555

TristanS said:


> Yeah, if you think in big terms, it's all pointless. The only real reason to live is to enjoy it, and if you don't do that, I don't see why anyone should bother.


The funny thing is you can't always have one answer that applies to everyone. Well, for most people this does apply. Things like social aspirations.. aren't something you need to do or to be afraid of not doing. But, people will hate you if you don't get anywhere in that sense. I guess that's why I've always feared being a failure in the modern social sense. In reality there will always be people that hate you for the person that you happen to be. The accident of your nation, things you do, your accent, your beliefs and your appearance.. all things that other people use to alienate or hate others. I guess there's a certain point where trying to be a good person becomes hopeless. Because of human innate drives that affect others' behaviours towards you. You can't make another person happy, or change them. And yet.. life wouldn't be what it is without these exact flaws.

Our world is complex, but as an individual different rules can apply to you... so, you can make your life about whatever you want it to be without taking into account the grand scheme of things. ..or, is that last sentence reliable if it's told to everyone? It's a paradox: if we all value quality of life above all else, life isn't sustainable, most immediately.

I'm interested in figuring it all out.. in an effort to enable myself and other people.


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## jg43i9jghy0t4555

Charcoal said:


> I just want to know what happens next, maybe if I say enough is enough I'll miss the best part.


Life and our world events is like one long TV show haha. Everyone's hooked.


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## jg43i9jghy0t4555

bwidger85 said:


> The idea that there _has_ to be reason for everything is a human complex. Even if there is supposed to be reason for everything, we has humans want to control even that, saying it needs to be there and there needs to be a conclusion to what WE want. I guess I have to ask the question, why do we feel the need to want everything to have purpose or a reason?
> 
> The truth is we can't look to God to say He is reason, especially if he doesn't exist. If you want reason then look around. Reason is everywhere. People want to control their lives after their dead and they want reason even after death like a legacy. Other animals don't care about this, why should we? It is almost a selfish and egotistic desire, much like religion.


Yeah

.. life itself is highly based on our individually biased drives to gain experiences for ourselves. Well I could write a list of why we're irrational for hours. But it would be one long line of insights that have no value really. Because almost all of the value in the world is in what modern society decides is valuable.



www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/absurdity.html said:


> If you're going to get into social criticism with absurdity and satire, you can't be politically correct when you do that.
> -John Cusack


..yeah this is extremely depressing stuff to get into. Not for the faint of heart..or mind


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## ugh1979

lovelysyringa said:


> If I believed I had a purpose, a plan, or belief in an afterlife, it would be much easier to be alive. I feel that it is connected.


How would having an afterlife mean you had a purpose? What purpose more than the one you already have?


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## ugh1979

Kittyfreak said:


> I feel the same. It's frustrating.
> 
> I also fear death for the same reason, I don't believe in anything so I struggle with the thought of non existence.


Wishing for an afterlife is just greedy. Yes it's desirable but people should have the humility to just accept that their particular life will end, but others will carry what _we _are to hopefully increasingly better things.

Make the most of your life now, enjoy what you actually have, and do what you can to make tomorrow better, even if that tomorrow is after your death.


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## Luna Sea

ugh1979 said:


> How would having an afterlife mean you had a purpose? What purpose more than the one you already have?


Because if you're gone when you die anyway, nothing you did or didn't do in your life matters. If living your life in the most productive and humanitarian way possible would allow you to reap the rewards when you're dead, you'd have a purpose - to set up your afterlife.


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## ugh1979

TristanS said:


> Because if you're gone when you die anyway, nothing you did or didn't do in your life matters. If living your life in the most productive and humanitarian way possible would allow you to reap the rewards when you're dead, you'd have a purpose - to set up your afterlife.


Do you honestly not see how you are proposing selfishness over altruism? :afr

That saddens me to hear that you feel nothing you could do for humanity would be of any value. Imagine you found the cure for cancer. How can you say that wouldn't matter because you didn't get a selfish afterlife reward?


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## Luna Sea

I'm not saying that life can't have a purpose if you don't believe in an afterlife, I'm saying that if you do believe, you have a purpose automatically.


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## ugh1979

TristanS said:


> I'm not saying that life can't have a purpose if you don't believe in an afterlife, I'm saying that if you do believe, you have a purpose automatically.


That's fine then.  My gripe was with those who say life is pointless unless there is a God/afterlife.

Helping others and knowing there is no reward at the end of it is altruism. You are doing it for others and not yourself.

Helping others knowing that you get a huge reward at the end of is selfish. You are doing it [ultimately] for yourself and not others.

The former are good Humanists, and the latter are just being theists.

Who are the better people?


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## maidahl

sssssssssssssss


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## Zyriel

It is selfish to take ones life without thinking of the people it involves. One reason for my depression and suicidal thoughts is because of the abhorrent view of humanity and society I possess. But within taking my life, I would be contradicting all I believe in. It is because of a selfish, greed based society that keeps civilization in stagnation. Life may seem quite meaningless, but there lies within the meaning: the questioning of the nature of existence itself. Often times it is not the destination which matters, but the journey one takes.


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## beefcake

Life is what you make of it. There may be no objective purpose, but there is subjective purpose. You get to experience life and consciousness and all the happiness, sadness, joys, and wonder that goes along with it. How much matter in this universe gets to experience that? I'll tell you, it's an infinitesimally small percentage. The chances of you being alive as you are are almost zero. The universe had to unfold exactly as it did for almost 14 billion years for you to be sitting here as you are typing on your computer. You are in an extremely privileged position, so enjoy it and make the most of every minute of your life. You have nothing to lose.

"What an extraordinary situation is that of us mortals! Each of us is
here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose he knows not, though he sometimes
thinks he feels it. But from the point of view of daily life, without going
deeper, we exist for our fellow-men--in the first place for those on whose
smiles and welfare all our happiness depends, and next for all those unknown
to us personally with whose destinies we are bound up by the tie of
sympathy. A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer
life depend on the labours of other men, living and dead, and that I must
exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am
still receiving..........The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science.
He who knows it not and can no longer wonder, no longer feel amazement, is
as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. It was the experience of
mystery--even if mixed with fear--that engendered religion. A knowledge of
the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the
profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to
our reason in their most elementary forms--it is this knowledge and this
emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in
this alone, I am a deeply religious man. I cannot conceive of a God who
rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we
are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical
death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such
notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me
the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous
structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to
comprehend a portion, be it never so tiny, of the reason that manifests
itself in nature." - Albert Einstein, excerpt from 'The World as I see It'


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## ugh1979

Zyriel said:


> It is because of a selfish, greed based society that keeps civilization in stagnation.


While I admit being less greedy would be a good thing, capitalism does drive progress, and we'd still be in the dark ages without it. With no financial incentive to generate innovation in new technologies which can help others we'd be even more stagnant.

We had about 1500 years in between the the end of the Roman and start of the Industrial Revolution where we lived under the control of religion where we really did stagnate. (And still do due to religion in many respects) I can only dream where we had been now if the technologies that were emerging in ancient Greece and Rome had been allowed to continue to develop over the millennia.

I appreciate having useful/enabling technology isn't the be all and end all of stopping social stagnation though. What areas would you say society is stagnating in?


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## Jollygoggles

Life is my playground.


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## MissMichele

*Hello?*

Imagine a world without Athiests. 

That's a reason to live.

Why does there have to be a "reason" like that? Look at animals. It's about surviving...Instinct, serving your purpose. Nobody knows the "purpose" and I don't there is one...But why kill yourself over it? Just live your life as happy as possible.


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## Phantasm

Learning is what gives my life meaning. I realize that there are so many things which I'm ignorant of, and I want to learn and understand every single one of them! Of course, this is not possible, but it's the closest thing to a life purpose for me. Also, music!

However, if your question was about whether life has an inherent meaning, then my answer is no. We're just a result of a few billion years of blind evolution and natural selection. We're insignificant, and so are the details of our lives. The universe couldn't care less about us.


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## Lasair

The way I see it is - there is no meaning to life, we are born, we do some stuff and we die. What is the point in doing stuff with our life? I see none but because of that I see no reason not to do stuff with my life. We have elderly people in nursing home and some think that their life is not worth the money used to keep them alive that it can be used better but why?, it is their life. Why keep the person who will die soon of an illness when they will die at some point soon anyway, it is their life. I work in mental health and although I do not support suicide, there is a point where that person should be aloud make that choice themselves.....I think I may have gone off the point

The way I see it is that there is no meaning to life so why not just live it to the fullest. I believe we can give our own lives meaning. Mine is to help others in need where I can, to question what I feel is right and wrong and to find a peace inside myself.


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## Lasair

Jollygoggles said:


> Life is my playground.


So let us play!


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## ugh1979

Phantasm said:


> Learning is what gives my life meaning. I realize that there are so many things which I'm ignorant of, and I want to learn and understand every single one of them! Of course, this is not possible, but it's the closest thing to a life purpose for me. Also, music!


Agreed. Plus also to enjoy life and contribute joy, art, care, and numerous other worthy things to society.

That of great meaning in my opinion.



> However, if your question was about whether life has an inherent meaning, then my answer is no. We're just a result of a few billion years of blind evolution and natural selection. We're insignificant, and so are the details of our lives. The universe couldn't care less about us.


Agreed.


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## Zyriel

ugh1979 said:


> While I admit being less greedy would be a good thing, capitalism does drive progress, and we'd still be in the dark ages without it. With no financial incentive to generate innovation in new technologies which can help others we'd be even more stagnant.
> 
> We had about 1500 years in between the the end of the Roman and start of the Industrial Revolution where we lived under the control of religion where we really did stagnate. (And still do due to religion in many respects) I can only dream where we had been now if the technologies that were emerging in ancient Greece and Rome had been allowed to continue to develop over the millennia.
> 
> I appreciate having useful/enabling technology isn't the be all and end all of stopping social stagnation though. What areas would you say society is stagnating in?


I am not going to try and not stir the topic off course in order to defend my opinion.

But I will say, that there should be no financial incentive for the betterment of humanity as a whole. It should be purely on the intentions to better ourselves as a whole race; putting differences aside to care for our planet and each other. Yet everyone sees how different everything is, rather than seeing the similarities and how everything is interconnected. Knowledge should be pursued for the love of it, within the boundaries of compassion.

I do think technology is useful as well. But, we are at a point in history when we can destroy each other quicker than ever. As well as, creating more garbage with older technology where it becomes obsolete faster and faster. Within that technological advancement, the mental and moral evolution is too far behind.


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## ugh1979

Zyriel said:


> I am not going to try and not stir the topic off course in order to defend my opinion.
> 
> But I will say, that there should be no financial incentive for the betterment of humanity as a whole. It should be purely on the intentions to better ourselves as a whole race; putting differences aside to care for our planet and each other. Yet everyone sees how different everything is, rather than seeing the similarities and how everything is interconnected. Knowledge should be pursued for the love of it, within the boundaries of compassion.


Your idea while noble is totally impractical. You don't get things for free. Someone has to invest money in developing technology, especially when it leaves the lab and goes in to the the production process. Who would pay for this? The government? They don't have time or money to cover everything. They do contribute to some elements, like for example NASA or defence technology, but they are hardly going to research, produce and then hand out free phones and TVs for everyone are they?

Our financial incentive driven capitalist society is a big reason why we have come so far. Many hands make light work so the hundreds of thousands of tech companies mean we can progress much much faster than relying on the government to do it all for us.



> I do think technology is useful as well. But, we are at a point in history when we can destroy each other quicker than ever. As well as, creating more garbage with older technology where it becomes obsolete faster and faster. Within that technological advancement, the mental and moral evolution is too far behind.


How could we possibly agree with every one in the world to only develop nie things that won't get dated? Again it's totally impractical and unworkable. There is no way you can pause progress in the hope that we become mentally and morally more developed. That kind of thing often takes hundreds of years so it's impossible to link to technological development.

In fact it's actually immoral as you'd be stopping all the development of technology that can saves peoples lives, just because you think we aren't mentally/morally ready for any more advancement.

I think you'd enjoy the dark ages pace of life and development.


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## Zyriel

ugh1979 said:


> Your idea while noble is totally impractical. You don't get things for free. Someone has to invest money in developing technology, especially when it leaves the lab and goes in to the the production process. Who would pay for this? The government? They don't have time or money to cover everything. They do contribute to some elements, like for example NASA or defence technology, but they are hardly going to research, produce and then hand out free phones and TVs for everyone are they?
> 
> Our financial incentive driven capitalist society is a big reason why we have come so far. Many hands make light work so the hundreds of thousands of tech companies mean we can progress much much faster than relying on the government to do it all for us.
> 
> How could we possibly agree with every one in the world to only develop nie things that won't get dated? Again it's totally impractical and unworkable. There is no way you can pause progress in the hope that we become mentally and morally more developed. That kind of thing often takes hundreds of years so it's impossible to link to technological development.
> 
> In fact it's actually immoral as you'd be stopping all the development of technology that can saves peoples lives, just because you think we aren't mentally/morally ready for any more advancement.
> 
> I think you'd enjoy the dark ages pace of life and development.


I am once again sorry if I go off topic, either the main topic or your responses. I am also sorry if I have offended you in any way, we just have differing ideologies.

That is where the system itself is flawed. Money is just a variable for resources. Credit is created out of thin air, based on theory of product sales and market value. Therefore, it becomes inflated easily. Capitalism only benefits a few on top who reap the rewards. It has worked thus far, and I do agree it has caused much advancement.

You must take a journey in history to see where that advancement came from. Before the industrial revolution was the renaissance in the west. In which ideas such as mathematics, and philosophy re-emerged though trading routes and contact with the east. Those ideas developed in ancient India, China, and Egypt. Where knowledge was sought after not for material gain, but because of ingenuity, and betterment of the culture. Over the years, it was because of the conquering of cultures, for material gain that technology advanced and capitalism was formed. The United States itself was originally anti capitalist, "No taxation without representation." The colonists were protesting, the taxes of the East India Corporation which was owned by the British Crown.

Just because Capitalism has fueled so much technological evolution does not mean it is the only way. The western cultures have been inspired by Christian ideologies about the land being exploited by humanity. Where as eastern cultures have inspiration from such philosophies as Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism. About oneness with all life, selflessness, and non-materialism.

As you said it may be noble but impractical, it is because of the whole system. Practicality itself is subjective in terms of who benefits, and what inspires the thought process. I believe in democratic socialism. The betterment of mankind as a whole. Only when the world can unite, and put aside differences, can it evolve. Capitalism will cause stagnation, as it is now. When there is no more competition, there will eventually be one of every corporation until they buy each other out. Profiting only the investors, not the rest of humanity. Competition causes ambition, but also idealizes selfish mentalities and greed. In the long run it will fail or we will destroy ourselves because of the ruthless competition.

Here is a site that explains a resource based economy: http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


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## ugh1979

Zyriel said:


> I am once again sorry if I go off topic, either the main topic or your responses. I am also sorry if I have offended you in any way, we just have differing ideologies.




Don't worry there is no chance of anyone offending me. I'm pretty much unoffendable.



> That is where the system itself is flawed. Money is just a variable for resources. Credit is created out of thin air, based on theory of product sales and market value. Therefore, it becomes inflated easily. Capitalism only benefits a few on top who reap the rewards. It has worked thus far, and I do agree it has caused much advancement.


I wouldn't say it only benefits a few at the top. We wouldn't live in the relative comfort most of us do if it wasn't for capitalism, as it was capitalism and often imperialism that made our western countries rich which raised the standard of life for the majority. You can see the same thing happening in China now. Capitalism is making it super rich and the standard of life is increasing for much of it's population.



> You must take a journey in history to see where that advancement came from. Before the industrial revolution was the renaissance in the west. In which ideas such as mathematics, and philosophy re-emerged though trading routes and contact with the east. Those ideas developed in ancient India, China, and Egypt. Where knowledge was sought after not for material gain, but because of ingenuity, and betterment of the culture. Over the years, it was because of the conquering of cultures, for material gain that technology advanced and capitalism was formed. The United States itself was originally anti capitalist, "No taxation without representation." The colonists were protesting, the taxes of the East India Corporation which was owned by the British Crown.


Yes I'm very familiar with all of that, but i's not sure how that can be applied to the modern world.



> Just because Capitalism has fueled so much technological evolution does not mean it is the only way. The western cultures have been inspired by Christian ideologies about the land being exploited by humanity. Where as eastern cultures have inspiration from such philosophies as Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism. About oneness with all life, selflessness, and non-materialism.


No it's not the only way, but it appears to be the only way that is workable. As for the eastern cultures, looks at Japan, South Korea and China. They have all embraced capitalism (well a form of it at least in communist China), and have greatly prospered.



> As you said it may be noble but impractical, it is because of the whole system. Practicality itself is subjective in terms of who benefits, and what inspires the thought process. I believe in democratic socialism. The betterment of mankind as a whole. Only when the world can unite, and put aside differences, can it evolve. Capitalism will cause stagnation, as it is now. When there is no more competition, there will eventually be one of every corporation until they buy each other out. Profiting only the investors, not the rest of humanity. Competition causes ambition, but also idealizes selfish mentalities and greed. In the long run it will fail or we will destroy ourselves because of the ruthless competition.


I agree that ultimately we need to all unite if we are to advance and survive, but only in certain areas. (Like climate control, and possibly space exploration and colonisation, but even that may be better left to private companies.)

We would never want there to just be one of each type of company, as they would then hold a monopoly, and that is something governments actively prohibit. There needs to always be competition as that's what drives competition which in turn drives innovation and keeps prices low. I'm not sure how you think capitalism is causing stagnation. We are advancing almost exponentially, driven by all the competition. I don't see how any other system would be better at achieving this.



> Here is a site that explains a resource based economy: http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


Sounds interesting. I'll check it out.


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## Jollygoggles

Just imbue your own life with meaning. It's your sandbox. You do as you wish.


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## Quinn the Eskimo

whether you believe in a higher power or not, you are alive, and you are experiencing

i believe all people want to feel love and exultation

and if you have no other purpose than that, you would not be missing out


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## wordscancutyoulikeglass

Paloma M said:


> I have a reason to live. I am choosing to not take my own life because first of all, I'm too much of a coward to commit suicide and second of all, because I don't want to leave my family. I wouldn't want to break my family's hearts. I really don't. I love them so much and I know that they love me too no matter how many arguments we get into with each other.


Surprisingly, if I committed suicide, I wouldn't feel bad about upsetting my family. Because their upset would be driven by guilt for being cruel to me in the last years of my life.


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## roomcreep

lovelysyringa said:


> Since I don't believe in god or any other higher power, I find myself debating why it's worth it to be alive. I know this is highly depressing, I guess I sometimes feel like nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Any thoughts?


You know how it's really easy for a smart actor to play a dumb character? Or a hyper-active actor to play a calm character? This is the reason I feel compelled to reply to this thread.

I myself am a nihilist. And thus might be qualified in throwing statements at you that may otherwise counter-attack my own nihilism.

As an EVOLVED human species, we exist within a social order that allows us to prosper and co-exist against the hardships of life - within limits. Why do I stress on EVOLVED? Because had we remained in our primitive state, we would not have this urge for meaning and purpose. You see, the social order has conditioned our brain function into language. We now think, communicate, analyze and ultimately exist in language. This letter is attached to this sound which therefore signifies this 'meaning'. Putting these letters together result in this word which point to that 'meaning' etc. As with any man-made formula, there are loop holes. Even though the social order has allowed us to provide ourselves with roofs over our heads, technological advancements for comfortable living and such, it has opened up an entirely new dimension of hardships that would otherwise be non-existent in our more primitive form.
Finance, status, class, prestige, reputation, attractiveness, all factors to determine our 'quality' and 'value' within the 'meaningful' merchandise of human flesh. Ridding ourselves of mother nature and survival as the ultimate enemy, we have gained an ever more dangerous one. Co-existence with our own species. That is not to say I encourage murder or anything of the sort, I definitely prefer this method of living over otherwise tearing each other to shreds for a piece of meat. I would, however, much prefer to see countless changes in things. But I digress.

What I'm trying to get to is this. Seeking meaning is a vicious cycle of endless proportions. Let's review. When you assign meaning to everyday things, does it satisfy or fulfill you in any way? It can't possibly do so, because meaning is abstract. There is no concrete, tangible value to meaning - yet this remains a physical, materialistic world. Therefore, meaning itself is meaningless. Now what's that saying? That even if you do somehow manage to assign a specific label of meaning to what we call life, this meaning itself will serve no purpose. Then you'd have to find a meaning for the meaning, a purpose for the purpose etc. Therein appears the cycle. The meaning we assign to the word meaning is of conceptual value - it is absolutely tasteless to the actual world.

Which brings me to what is really important here - reading within the lines of your question. Throughout countless observations I have found that people as a social species ask conscious questions which they have absolutely no actual interest in, but that are fueled with subconscious alternatives. In this case, you feel a void of painful proportions which you seek to plug. Highly understandable.

How about this? You have 2 parents, and 2 parents for each of your 2 parents which makes 4 grandparents. 2 parents for those, that's 8 great grandparents. 16 great great grandparents, 32 great great great ones. How long has human life been around? Keep going. 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024...
Ever think about how had ONE of those people died prior to giving birth, throughout primitive times, tsunamis volcanoes earthquakes hurricanes storms and all sorts of natural disasters, world war 1 and 2 (and 3 soon enough), civil wars and wars in general, hunger strikes, disease and pandemics... I mean, it's really easy to die... yet each and every one of those people has lived resulting in a bloodline that leads to you. Do you feel worth yet? No?
How about this then. How many sperms raced to your making? There's about 300 million sperms per ejaculation. Had 1 single sperm deviated, or had your parents had sex perhaps a few moments earlier or later than they actually did, an entirely different person would have formulated. You wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be writing this post that YOU have started. How about you take that piece of knowledge and project it onto the 1024 ancestors we were just talking about. I don't know about you but that's more self-worth than I'll ever need. I deserve to be here just as much as anyone, and you should feel the same. We earned our place in this world, our ancestors have earned it for us.

Also, I realize some people speak of suicide and how the only thing that prevents them from doing it is 'not missing out'. I am in no way encouraging you to suicide, but instead I would rather you find another reason. Because, if you kill yourself and thus your brain function, any sense of awareness, consciousness or feeling whatsoever, you would not feel the sorrow of 'missing out'. Absolute non-existence is a state of total liberation - which is not a state at all. It is an escape from everything you know, so I strongly urge you to find a reason to live rather than a reason not to kill yourself. In case this would help anyone, my reason to live automatically presented itself to me upon creating an alter ego for myself that is completely isolated from the social order. When in this schizophrenic type of person, I need no reason. No purpose. I simply am. I seek no means to end myself, nor would I attempt to dodge death if it came. I have no will whatsoever. Will is within the same realm of the vicious cycle of meaning.

I hope I could have been in any way a sort of relief to you, and excuse my excessive wordiness, but it's a touchy topic and I am new to this forum - my excitement to invest myself into it left me no choice in the matter.

Cheers to you, I am having a drink in your honor.


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## ugh1979

/\

Interesting post with some good points.


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## mr.shyguy311

I don't know if this helps but I believe in energies like I have a nervous energy most of the time and it makes others feel nervous, death seems to only bring negative energy unless you are Hitler. To me the point of life is trying to create and spread positive energy to help the future live in a world where perhaps social anxiety is not such a problem. In this since its all about your ethical standing because what you choose to do in life no matter what will have an influence on others


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## yourfavestoner

For me, not believing in a deity has never meant my life was empty.

I can still have kids, I can still make love (though I have not yet, but I CAN), I can still walk my dog, play with my nephew, watch football, play football....phew, let me collect my breath.

What would a deity have to do with my life anyway? It's all the things in it that give it meaning.


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## low

Have you looked at existentialism? Although to be fair a lot of that can be depressing in itself, but it's an option. 

You can find/define your own purpose in life or accept it as a fact of life and it may get easier over time.

Maybe look at it from a spiritual side, in a sense you will continue as atoms. You can try and make the world a better place or leave a legacy through effecting lives, contributing to the betterment of society or friends and/or family, which I suppose is a biological continuation also.


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## ugh1979

yourfavestoner said:


> For me, not believing in a deity has never meant my life was empty.
> 
> I can still have kids, I can still make love (though I have not yet, but I CAN), I can still walk my dog, play with my nephew, watch football, play football....phew, let me collect my breath.
> 
> What would a deity have to do with my life anyway? It's all the things in it that give it meaning.





low said:


> Have you looked at existentialism? Although to be fair a lot of that can be depressing in itself, but it's an option.
> 
> You can find/define your own purpose in life or accept it as a fact of life and it may get easier over time.
> 
> Maybe look at it from a spiritual side, in a sense you will continue as atoms. You can try and make the world a better place or leave a legacy through effecting lives, contributing to the betterment of society or friends and/or family, which I suppose is a biological continuation also.


This and this are correct. Experience, contribute to and enjoy this life, not some delusional next life.

Embrace *now *as *you *want to. Don't feel you ever have to conform to some intuitions fairytale designed to fool people in to obeying their corrupt regime.


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