# "SPACE". What IS it & why do people want it?



## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

What is Space?

Why do people want it?

Really would like to understand that, in detail. Because I simply can't relate. Closeness is addictive for me. 

It's ecstasy, euphoria, joy, feeling alive... Lack of closeness, any distance, not spending time together ALL the time, in a romantic relationship (even in a close friendship) - well, it's a terrible pain and distress (yep, separation anxiety).

And yet there are those who want this "Space". This I need to understand.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

MichaelWesten said:


> Not everyone wants to be around people 24/7. Everyone needs time alone to think.


Everyone?

When I'm in love, I hate being alone. It feels like I don't exist.

Being close to the beloved makes me feel alive, feel joy, feel loved, liked, worthwhile, excited. When we're apart, I become anxious that his feelings have changed. I feel ignored and avoided.

Maybe I want, or possibly need, time alone to think too. But that feels either secretly forbidden for me, or just plain distressing.

I don't like Space.

But I"m trying to understand that others do, and give it to them. Which is incredibly bloody hard for me to do, it's a torment.


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## Dempsey (Jun 27, 2009)

A lot of people love their solitude. It's incredibly satisfying.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

MichaelWesten said:


> You can be in love with someone and feel love for them without being around them 24/7. People need time alone. If gives them a chance to think clearly and sort out their thoughts.
> 
> I think it's just insecurity in you saying that you're anxious in being away from them because you feel like their feelings will have changed. If they love you, their feelings aren't just going to change like that.
> 
> Like I said, everyone needs time alone. I'm gonna close out this post with a quote from Marcus Aurelius


Thank you for sharing how you experience it. That is not my experience though.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

I am an extreme introvert and have AS. This means that, although I can love someone and enjoy interaction, it becomes overwhelming after a very short amount of time. I experience delayed processing of my thoughts and emotions, so need the time in between for them to catch up.

I need interactions to be spaced days, weeks or months apart, depending on the person and the context. Without time to process the interaction, I feel smothered and become very confused. I also have great difficulty maintaining contact with others in general and become so engrossed in my own world and the physical, not social, world that I can even forget about someone I love. I am capable of tolerating months with no contact from them.

When in love, I carry that around with me and can process the feelings better when alone because I can rarely process them when in the person's presence. The actual relating gets accomplished when alone and is when I feel the most close to them. Also, if I notice minor changes in someone's behaviour between interactions, it confuses and upsets me terribly, which adds some reluctance to socialising. The person I am currently seeing has the most consistent behaviour I have ever encountered; nearly every interaction and phonecall follows the same pattern. I am capable of interacting with her with spaces of only a few hours in between.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

I don't know. I would like to be with the other person a lot of the time as well. But, I also like a little alone time occasionally.


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## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

Crystal it also depends on the persons personality, like if they are introverted for example. The more introverted they are then probably the more space they will need. One way to describe and introvert is that they get their mental stimulation from their own minds, whereas extroverts need external stimuli. The party is on the inside for introverts and on the outside, the real world for extroverts. There are degrees of introversion of course. In fact someone could be 50/50. But anyway the more introverted someone is, the more easily they can be overstimulated by the outside world (people.) Also, some people like to cultivate an array of friendships/relationships, not just one, so that may be the space they are referring to. You should not take it personally. Just find one that gets you.  Finding an extrovert might help, unless they are too extroverted and need to interact with so many people 24/7. Don't you ever like to ruminate and stuff? Or just read alone? Or walk alone? By choice I mean? Nothing wrong if you don't just that some people do. Personally I need a lot of space. I kinda wish I didn't need so much actually but oh well, that's the way I am.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

odd_one_out said:


> I am an extreme introvert and have AS. This means that, although I can love someone and enjoy interaction, it becomes overwhelming after a very short amount of time. I experience delayed processing of my thoughts and emotions, so need the time in between for them to catch up.
> 
> I need interactions to be spaced days, weeks or months apart, depending on the person and the context. Without time to process the interaction, I feel smothered and become very confused. I also have great difficulty maintaining contact with others in general and become so engrossed in my own world and the physical, not social, world that I can even forget about someone I love. I am capable of tolerating months with no contact from them.
> 
> When in love, I carry that around with me and can process the feelings better when alone because I can rarely process them when in the person's presence. The actual relating gets accomplished when alone and is when I feel the most close to them. Also, if I notice minor changes in someone's behaviour between interactions, it confuses and upsets me terribly, which adds some reluctance to socialising. The person I am currently seeing has the most consistent behaviour I have ever encountered; nearly every interaction and phonecall follows the same pattern. I am capable of interacting with her with spaces of only a few hours in between.


Wow, that was immensely helpful. I hope more people post the reasons for their need for space in a way that really goes to the bottom of it.

Recently was dumped by someone I love very, very much. We'd been closer than close, it was beautiful. Okay, his life started having major upsets, but nonetheless, he started saying things like, "I can't do emotional closeness" and becoming distant. That developed into, "I no longer want/desire you" and then "I don't want to be partners" and "I don't love you anymore". He says he never will again, and it's not me. No real reasons. He just "can't be in a relationship now". WTF? It's really hurtful and distressing. Doesn't even want to talk about it, because he "can't talk about feelings atm".

He said he'd felt smothered and trapped. And that he can go for days / weeks without contact with his friends. I can't even comprehend, if it's one you love and are close to. He was doing so well with it before, hours every day. We once texted for 27 hours straight and both loved it, felt like minutes.

Maybe it's what you have? I'm clutching at straws, but it's so sad.


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

I don't like to be alone. I like to be close. I don't have to be in the same room at all times but just having her home is enough. When I go out and do things I like all I can think about is being back home with her. Its bad enough it makes my hobby not as enjoyable. But then when she has things to do that don't include me I get depressed because shes gone, Im alone, and I dont have other friends to go out and do stuff with like she does. I would rather be bored doing stuff she likes and hanging out with her friends than to be sitting home alone.

It has gotten better though. I can usually find something to keep busy while she is gone now instead of dwelling on it. Sometimes she says she just needs her ME time. so she goes off with her friends. I have plenty of time alone. Work, in the car, etc. I can also have my thoughts when I am with someone. I dont need special alone time to hanle my thoughts.

Sounds like I would be too clingy for most people. We talk on the phone on her way to work in the mornings and sometimes on her way home. She works in the cube 50 feet away. We take breaks together and eat lunch together. So, we have a lot of time together. I don't get tired of being with her though.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

If you spend all of your time with someone, you may may start to get on each others nerves. I took a 2+ week trip to Florida with my girlfriend. It was nice, but there were times when I became upsetting. I wouldn't say what I wanted to do, was quiet, wasn't assertive. Normally she can tolerate this, but when you are around that 24/7 it probably starts to get on your nerves. So, in turn, I couldn't deal with what I thought was pressure, which it really wasn't, but I felt like I had to be someone else. I felt like I had to make myself talk, force conversation out of myself, and "take the lead" in a way. This is what happens when you spend all of your time with someone. I, personally, cannot be around someone all of the time, even if I feel like I should. Sometimes I feel like I should be hanging out with my girlfriend when I am, say, sitting on the computer all day and going on sites like SAS. That's just not how it works, though. I need to process my thoughts, zone out, and "do my thing" in my own space.

Have you had relationships like this before or is this just an ideal you have? I don't think you really want to spend _all _of your time with someone. I used to think that I wanted that when I was really lonely and had really low self-esteem. It's just not reality. Maybe it's like that at first in a relationship, but I think a lot of people _shouldn_'_t _spend so much time together. That may be the problem in a lot of relationships.

Everyone is different, though. I remember craving my space when I had a "buddy" and friends that would come over unexpectedly. I didn't want them around. I was doing my thing, listening to music, reading, hanging out in my room. People would come over to my house and play in my basement. My friend had his drums there and we kind of had a band, but eventually it was just other people playing and I didn't want to. It really got on my nerves. Today I almost wish I had that at times because I really don't have any friends that I hang out with anymore. I want the company, but then I don't. Socializing can be exhausting and I only like it in certain amounts. I guess it's kind of selfish.


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## alex999 (Oct 21, 2008)

IMO nothing feels more euphoric than having a good long conversation with someone...and knowing it was successful. I think practically all people don't like being alone...I think it's evolutionarily etched into our brains to strive for human companionship.


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm just independent, stubborn, and hate being forced in to doing things. If I have some clingy guy around always wanting my attention or to do something I go insane. I just want them to go away so I can do what I want. I even got annoyed several times at a boyfriend that randomly would show up with ingredients and start cooking me dinner.... Half the time it wasn't even when I would normally eat and I wasn't hungry. 3/4ths of the time it wasn't anything I wanted to eat. Again I just wanted him to leave so I could eat what I wanted when I wanted.

I am actually married now though. I found someone who doesn't drive me insane when in my space. I know he loves me but he's not all over me. Occasionally he gets annoyed with me wanting his attention too often just like occasionally I get annoyed with him. We both just do our seperate thing usually still in the same room and wait for the other person to be in a more receptive mood.

Most confident, mature people will not want to be with someone 24/7. I know plenty that can't be without a relationship without practically panicking but they still want some time to do their own thing. Very few people are willing to be in a relationship with someone that's too clingy and needy. Personally I'd talk to a therapist about your constant need to be around people and see if you can't find the exact reason. You shouldn't experience anxiety about normal seperation from contact. If you fail to see people for days and never go anywhere then I would understand. Nearly everyone does need frequent social interaction to be happy. However severe anxiety and a strong need to never be alone and especially to always be interacting (different from doing your own thing in the same room/house as someone) is a sign of a potential problem you might need to work on in order to have successful relationships.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

CrystalMaid said:


> Wow, that was immensely helpful. I hope more people post the reasons for their need for space in a way that really goes to the bottom of it.
> 
> Recently was dumped by someone I love very, very much. We'd been closer than close, it was beautiful. Okay, his life started having major upsets, but nonetheless, he started saying things like, "I can't do emotional closeness" and becoming distant. That developed into, "I no longer want/desire you" and then "I don't want to be partners" and "I don't love you anymore". He says he never will again, and it's not me. No real reasons. He just "can't be in a relationship now". WTF? It's really hurtful and distressing. Doesn't even want to talk about it, because he "can't talk about feelings atm".
> 
> ...


It sounds like he was capable of such high levels of closeness initially--perhaps in the first rush of love, like many are. This diminishes over time for most. Maybe his life problems were related to his increasing distance, or were the trigger. However, the way in which he claimed to suddenly lose the ability to communicate his feelings during the break up could be his way of letting you down less frankly and not having to be entirely honest about his reasons. People frequently lose the ability to communicate their feelings in cases where it might offend or make themselves look bad, such as when ending a relationship. They resort to avoidance of the real issues. The way he gradually distanced himself during the relationship (using the phrases you quoted) without being specific is indicative of this. It takes courage to admit you have a specific problem with someone.


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## Lumiere (Jun 13, 2009)

I can go months without contacting friends and have gone two years without any romantic attachment.
I just no longer seem to get much enjoyment from either and prefer to be alone.

I find it hard to talk about feelings too. If I'm around someone who's very openly emotional and tactile I sort of recoil inwardly, even though I may want to make that connection with someone I always find it hard to and end up retreating into myself.
For me, space means a respite from the constant anxiety I feel when around others. That's it, really.


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

I've been with my boyfriend for over a year now and we only see each other once a week and talk to each other pretty much every day. Whenever I tell anyone this they say, "What? Why don't you see each other more!?" I usually tell him that he's too annoying to put up with any longer than that. xD 

I think space is a good thing because it gives you time to see your friends, pursue your hobbies and just have some time by yourself. I think the idea of having your SO around all the time is nice but I don't think it's very realistic.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

Akane said:


> I'm just independent, stubborn, and hate being forced in to doing things. If I have some clingy guy around always wanting my attention or to do something I go insane. I just want them to go away so I can do what I want. I even got annoyed several times at a boyfriend that randomly would show up with ingredients and start cooking me dinner.... Half the time it wasn't even when I would normally eat and I wasn't hungry. 3/4ths of the time it wasn't anything I wanted to eat. Again I just wanted him to leave so I could eat what I wanted when I wanted.
> 
> I am actually married now though. I found someone who doesn't drive me insane when in my space. I know he loves me but he's not all over me. Occasionally he gets annoyed with me wanting his attention too often just like occasionally I get annoyed with him. We both just do our seperate thing usually still in the same room and wait for the other person to be in a more receptive mood.
> 
> Most confident, mature people will not want to be with someone 24/7. I know plenty that can't be without a relationship without practically panicking but they still want some time to do their own thing. Very few people are willing to be in a relationship with someone that's too clingy and needy. Personally I'd talk to a therapist about your constant need to be around people and see if you can't find the exact reason. You shouldn't experience anxiety about normal seperation from contact. If you fail to see people for days and never go anywhere then I would understand. Nearly everyone does need frequent social interaction to be happy. However severe anxiety and a strong need to never be alone and especially to always be interacting (different from doing your own thing in the same room/house as someone) is a sign of a potential problem you might need to work on in order to have successful relationships.


I don't think she needs to change. I like CrystalMaid's idea of a relationship more than yours. I've only seen a few couples in the never-ending honeymoon phase, but their relationships seem perfect for years and years. :yes

They are all nice with patience, empathy, and playfulness. That is the only kind of relationship I would want to have.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*Replies to SPACE posts I*



Akane said:


> I'm just independent, stubborn, and hate being forced in to doing things. If I have some clingy guy around always wanting my attention or to do something I go insane. I just want them to go away so I can do what I want.
> ...
> Most confident, mature people will not want to be with someone 24/7. I know plenty that can't be without a relationship without practically panicking but they still want some time to do their own thing. Very few people are willing to be in a relationship with someone that's too clingy and needy. Personally I'd talk to a therapist about your constant need to be around people and see if you can't find the exact reason. You shouldn't experience anxiety about normal seperation from contact. If you fail to see people for days and never go anywhere then I would understand. Nearly everyone does need frequent social interaction to be happy. However severe anxiety and a strong need to never be alone and especially to always be interacting (different from doing your own thing in the same room/house as someone) is a sign of a potential problem you might need to work on in order to have successful relationships.


Indeed, I do fail to see people for days. Spend all day in silence, it's horrible. That's when looking for work. When working, didn't bond with colleagues so the work day was lonely, also mostly in silence except for work-related stuff. Then evenings, no friends really, so just occasional social interactions with acquaintances, which doesn't fulfill me. Although it is better seeing humans than not. But again, those opportunities are not available to me whenever I need them, due to my social isolation. It's always great to be invited to a party or hangout, but it's seldom. So that is why I needed the SOs company so very much. Amongst other reasons. They also gave me special treatment - more kind, loving, validating - people in general expect you to be tougher. And obviously, as relationships go on, that kinda dries up. But that is what I crave, it's almost like needing a daddy figure.

I am entirely aware of all the 'reasons' for my behaviour and so forth. Cognitively, I could write a treatise on it and how it originated for me. Have also formally studied Psych. But it is not something I can change at a mental level. The emotions causing this are so deep-rooted it's been very very hard to effect significant changes. Say what you like, but it is hard to change the feelings. It's not mind over matter for me, because it's not a mind problem. Now, however, because I cannot bear to see another relationship end because I was clingy, I'm forcing myself to change behaviour, as best I can. If you could just imagine the inner tension this causes. And unfortunately any tension or anxiety is something the other picks up, which isn't all that helpful.

As a philosopher who has no fear of questioning rigorously (self included) I can get right to the very bottom of things, and as a systems thinker, I can understand all the inter-relatedness of variables. It still doesn't change my emotions, and that is so very frustrating and kind of frightening.

Low self-esteem is another area in which people bandy about theory and self-help maxims, but NONE of that stuff works. Maybe changing actions works, because when you like what you do you can like yourself for an actual reason, and you get external reinforcement. BUT in my case I have inertia about action, and/or fear. So the thing which could help, is very hard for me.

So I feel stuck, and whatever I try, isn't enough or isn't fast enough or deep-rooted enough.



rickthegreat said:


> Crystal it also depends on the persons personality, like if they are introverted for example. The more introverted they are then probably the more space they will need. One way to describe and introvert is that they get their mental stimulation from their own minds, whereas extroverts need external stimuli. The party is on the inside for introverts and on the outside, the real world for extroverts. There are degrees of introversion of course. In fact someone could be 50/50. But anyway the more introverted someone is, the more easily they can be overstimulated by the outside world (people.) Also, some people like to cultivate an array of friendships/relationships, not just one, so that may be the space they are referring to. You should not take it personally. Just find one that gets you.  Finding an extrovert might help, unless they are too extroverted and need to interact with so many people 24/7. Don't you ever like to ruminate and stuff? Or just read alone? Or walk alone? By choice I mean? Nothing wrong if you don't just that some people do. Personally I need a lot of space. I kinda wish I didn't need so much actually but oh well, that's the way I am.


Ah, then let's throw a spanner in the works. Extroverts are probly better for me, but I am an introvert and I don't like space, you see. But to be specific, I don't like space from the one I love. From people in general, space constitutes retreat, I guess. Just don't want to do stuff on my own when I feel loved. Need the constant validation and the joy of the person's presence and the feeling of being loved and in love. That's better than anything else. So not quite sure if the introversion theory fits. 



tlgibson97 said:


> I don't like to be alone. I like to be close. I don't have to be in the same room at all times but just having her home is enough. When I go out and do things I like all I can think about is being back home with her. Its bad enough it makes my hobby not as enjoyable. But then when she has things to do that don't include me I get depressed because shes gone, Im alone, and I dont have other friends to go out and do stuff with like she does. I would rather be bored doing stuff she likes and hanging out with her friends than to be sitting home alone.
> ...
> I can also have my thoughts when I am with someone. I dont need special alone time to hanle my thoughts.
> 
> Sounds like I would be too clingy for most people. We talk on the phone on her way to work in the mornings and sometimes on her way home. She works in the cube 50 feet away. We take breaks together and eat lunch together. So, we have a lot of time together. I don't get tired of being with her though.


Yep, that's how it is for me. What I want is a strong, manly guy who is romantic, can talk about feelings and wants to be with me lots and lots. Maybe even more than I do. But someone I also really like. The problem with my old approach is that it's more based on need, than love, and people sense that and it becomes a major turn-off. And in some way they also feel used or maybe smothered. So it's not something that can continue, if I am to avoid the twin pains of losing love and self-blame.



BeNice said:


> If you spend all of your time with someone, you may may start to get on each others nerves. I took a 2+ week trip to Florida with my girlfriend. It was nice, but there were times when I became upsetting. I wouldn't say what I wanted to do, was quiet, wasn't assertive. Normally she can tolerate this, but when you are around that 24/7 it probably starts to get on your nerves. So, in turn, I couldn't deal with what I thought was pressure, which it really wasn't, but I felt like I had to be someone else. I felt like I had to make myself talk, force conversation out of myself, and "take the lead" in a way. This is what happens when you spend all of your time with someone. I, personally, cannot be around someone all of the time, even if I feel like I should. Sometimes I feel like I should be hanging out with my girlfriend when I am, say, sitting on the computer all day and going on sites like SAS. That's just not how it works, though. I need to process my thoughts, zone out, and "do my thing" in my own space.
> 
> Have you had relationships like this before or is this just an ideal you have? I don't think you really want to spend _all _of your time with someone. I used to think that I wanted that when I was really lonely and had really low self-esteem. It's just not reality. Maybe it's like that at first in a relationship, but I think a lot of people _shouldn_'_t _spend so much time together. That may be the problem in a lot of relationships.
> 
> ... I want the company, but then I don't. Socializing can be exhausting and I only like it in certain amounts. I guess it's kind of selfish.


Every relationship before, I've felt like this. Even though there was the risk of getting on each other's nerves and all that. I love the feeling of intimacy, which I pretty much only ever had with that one person and no one else in my life, that's part of the urge. The separation anxiety was just too much. However, with SA, the moodiness or tensions would obviously make things a lot worse. There are so many REASONS for space, and staying away more, it just FEELS so hard, so unwanted and distressing.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*Replies to SPACE posts II*



odd_one_out said:


> It sounds like he was capable of such high levels of closeness initially--perhaps in the first rush of love, like many are. This diminishes over time for most. Maybe his life problems were related to his increasing distance, or were the trigger. However, the way in which he claimed to suddenly lose the ability to communicate his feelings during the break up could be his way of letting you down less frankly and not having to be entirely honest about his reasons. People frequently lose the ability to communicate their feelings in cases where it might offend or make themselves look bad, such as when ending a relationship. They resort to avoidance of the real issues. The way he gradually distanced himself during the relationship (using the phrases you quoted) without being specific is indicative of this. It takes courage to admit you have a specific problem with someone.


Thank you so much for being frank. That's always something I can understand. It's like one thing you can hold onto, on which to base other interpretations.

I am going to consider that he just didn't feel I'm right for him. Maybe it's not my behaviour entirely (without denying that it really really might've been better had I been less clingy/need/smothering), but just that he doesn't feel enough 'fit' with me. Cos that you can never get around. It just is. It's hard to see clearly on this issue, because I am so regretful about having SA and so many other defects and unhelpful behaviour that results in painful loss like this.

Always saw him as exceedingly courageous, for he is, but maybe when he was so beset and down it was just too much to be frank as well. Who knows. I certainly don't know. And i really need closure.

I wish he would just tell me straight out. Maybe if or when he initiates contact again he will feel up to it. Because the truth, for me, is easier than wondering.



Lumiere said:


> I can go months without contacting friends and have gone two years without any romantic attachment.
> I just no longer seem to get much enjoyment from either and prefer to be alone.
> 
> I find it hard to talk about feelings too. If I'm around someone who's very openly emotional and tactile I sort of recoil inwardly, even though I may want to make that connection with someone I always find it hard to and end up retreating into myself.
> For me, space means a respite from the constant anxiety I feel when around others. That's it, really.


Ye gods! My last beloved also went two years without a relationship (and for him that means two years without physical intimacy of any kind, because he will only do it if there's love - another reason I loved him so, that is rare) AND he has said identical things without contact. It's so HARD to understand, considering how close and warm he was with me.

There is one thing though.

In the beginning, he said "this is unusual for me". And that he was so happy, and all of it. But I felt he was ready, because he'd had a 10-year relationship and the views mentioned above. And we were so happy. But maybe, it just isn't him and in times of the biggest stress in his life, he needed to revert to who he feels he is.

Am I just trying to find more reasons to understand and avoid the central truth that he's just not that into me? It's so hard to see clearly, bcos he started having constant chronic pain and facing the possibility of becoming cripple, which is out of the question for him, financial implications, all of it, that's when he broke up - but he denies any of that is the reason and insists he just won't love me again that way. So it's like I have to give up.

He didn't say he has constant anxiety around others, but maybe it's something he's not willing to admit. What difference does it make that I look for more reasons? I've been through thousands of deep ones already with him, and he just got more alienated by my attempting to understand and hope that there would be a different outcome.



strawberryjulius said:


> I've been with my boyfriend for over a year now and we only see each other once a week and talk to each other pretty much every day. Whenever I tell anyone this they say, "What? Why don't you see each other more!?" I usually tell him that he's too annoying to put up with any longer than that. xD
> 
> I think space is a good thing because it gives you time to see your friends, pursue your hobbies and just have some time by yourself. I think the idea of having your SO around all the time is nice but I don't think it's very realistic.


Well done, you! That's what I'm gonna be facing if my first date tonight turns into more. i.e. forcing myself to put up with, or ye gods even try to appreciate, seeing him only once a week. But it just feels awful, like - I'd want more, why doesn't the other person? These are the kinds of feelings it brings..........

It's so very sensible, all the reasons you say, and healthy. Yet at heart it is hard for me to feel enthused. Just don't like my own company any more, and that's largely due to having no other friends or money for my many interests. Meaningful or fun contact with friends lets me see who I am, and that expression is mostly denied me, thanks to SA and my own behaviour and feelings. Generally I try to go to whatever social occasions I can manage to get involved in, without having a circle of close friends, but it's not enough to fulfill me. So I've looked to the SO to fill that emptiness and also I trusted him more, because I believed he loved me and hadn't been hurt by him. People in general, I fear, and their criticism or teasing hurts. Yes, I should harden the fk up, but inside, it's just not quite there.



Classified said:


> I don't think she needs to change. I like CrystalMaid's idea of a relationship more than yours. I've only seen a few couples in the never-ending honeymoon phase, but their relationships seem perfect for years and years. :yes
> 
> They are all nice with patience, empathy, and playfulness. That is the only kind of relationship I would want to have.


Thank you. It's just unfortunate that I myself have been something of an impediment to the patience, empathy, playfulness (that especially) continuing. Anxiety started killing that off so effectively and intransigently. Or I did, similar thing. If I'm able to reign it in this time, then there may be a good shot, since that is what I deeply want. Or need. But what will make it happen is more self-control, some magical bloody transformation of my emotions and deep fears, and more focus on the other person's wants, needs and emotions. And that last bit is tough, cos I've tended to interpret most of the loved one's behaviour as been either for or against, or all about, me. While I may cognitively appreciate that's not sensible, it doesn't originate there and the feelings that drive that are so strong, it also skewed my mind in the situations. Tricky one, but I MUST resolve this. And now. Because I want to get it right this time.


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

> But it is not something I can change at a mental level. The emotions causing this are so deep-rooted it's been very very hard to effect significant changes. Say what you like, but it is hard to change the feelings. It's not mind over matter for me, because it's not a mind problem.


No you cannot sit around thinking about it and change yourself or your needs. The solution is to fulfill the need other ways. You can't make it go away. Placing it all on your significant other though is going to end 99% of relationships. You sound like you do plenty of thinking. Really thinking does not improve anything. Lots of people on this forum sit around thinking and all they do is get themselves in more trouble. You have to do not think. If you are not getting the social contact you need and it's causing your relationships to end then you need to figure out how to get more social contact. Not figure out how to avoid needing it. You also don't need to figure out how to have a relationship despite it. Neither of those will work long term.

Find hobbies, take classes, go walk around the mall.... I know anyone on this forum likely has problems doing those things but that's the type of stuff that will help. You will be around people. I started martial arts to meet people and get out of the house because college was not helpful at all in that area. It was the same as highschool. Go to class, sit through class, leave class, and still fail to make a sound for days at a time. I also picked a martial art that involved working directly with partners and physical contact rather than striking at mats and pads. I also did dog training classes every week until recently.

Even people who are independent and don't want too much social contact usually can't sit around for days or weeks without it. When my health stopped me from doing all activities I started to get depressed and drive my husband nuts keeping him from playing games or doing anything but interacting with me when he got home. He was my only interaction and while I was only asking for a couple hours a day between when he got home and when he went to bed he had spent all day around people. I finally did get him to understand the cause was that I was doing nothing all day.

Don't do nothing. If you want to change, improve, and have better relationships you have to start somewhere other than the relationship itself. That doesn't mean trying to change your mentality through self control or positive thinking. It means actually go change it by finding other ways to fulfill your need for social interaction. The hardest thing to do until you try it and do find activities you can handle.


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## quiet0lady (Sep 29, 2009)

CrystalMaid said:


> What is Space?
> 
> Why do people want it?
> 
> ...


I'm one of those people that just needs my space and alone time sometimes. Interestingly, the one long relationship I had I never found myself getting annoyed or wanting time alone. I enjoyed the closeness and spending as much time as I could with him. I think it just depends on the two people and their personalities. He and I were both really independent people, we were each happy with our own lives and didn't need to completely depend on each other in order to be happy. Knowing that is what drew me closer. The thing I seem to have trouble with and probably will always have trouble with in the future is when a guy reaches a certain degree of clinginess and dependence on me. That becomes incredibly overwhelming and smothering for me and I usually back off. I don't want to become someone else's _entire_ world, just as I don't want someone else to become my entire world. Some people view being apart and space as a negative thing, but personally I think it's extremely healthy not to get completely lost in someone else to the point where you lose yourself when you aren't with that person.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

Akane said:


> No you cannot sit around thinking about it and change yourself or your needs. The solution is to fulfill the need other ways. You can't make it go away. Placing it all on your significant other though is going to end 99% of relationships. You sound like you do plenty of thinking. Really thinking does not improve anything. Lots of people on this forum sit around thinking and all they do is get themselves in more trouble. You have to do not think. If you are not getting the social contact you need and it's causing your relationships to end then you need to figure out how to get more social contact. Not figure out how to avoid needing it. You also don't need to figure out how to have a relationship despite it. Neither of those will work long term.
> 
> Find hobbies, take classes, go walk around the mall.... I know anyone on this forum likely has problems doing those things but that's the type of stuff that will help. You will be around people. I started martial arts to meet people and get out of the house because college was not helpful at all in that area. It was the same as highschool. Go to class, sit through class, leave class, and still fail to make a sound for days at a time. I also picked a martial art that involved working directly with partners and physical contact rather than striking at mats and pads. I also did dog training classes every week until recently.
> 
> ...


Yes. Agree completely. Well said and thank you. 
This is what I needed to hear.

Okay, here's the tough part. My challenge is that I am exceedingly frustrated and curtailed in having the means to do the activities and social contact that will help me.

Lost my job, home, car because my fiance was in another country and I gave them up in trust to make a new life there. Ended up back here unexpectedly and been trying to salvage my life. The trauma of what happened, plus being a prisoner til I managed to get another car, then followed by another trauma of another close love relationship ending, has left me feeling a bit devastated. It's now been a few months without work and it is absolutely urgent now. Yet I feel paralysed.

Point is, activities and hobbies cost money. So does social contact. Went on a first date last night, it was wonderful, and I wanted to pay my half but he insisted. I am now quite stressed about further dates because I can't afford anything and the kind of things we both enjoy cost money, even if it's not that much when you are working.

There is a private pub in the cluster where I live so I go there a fair bit and be around people. I lived here before I left too, so there are many who are glad to see me. However, because of SA I haven't made close friends so being there makes me lonely and it doesn't often lead to being invited out with them. Going out, making actual friends, that is what I want. Though of course now I can't really afford to go out.

I have lots of interests. Like kayaking. Last year I started playing rock drums and loved it more than anything. I could barely afford the lessons. Now, there is no way. This is what I mean.

I love driving my car (now that I have one again), but cannot afford petrol. I have to save it for essential trips.

It's not that I don't want to. It's just that now, the only interests I can afford, are all solitary, and I have little taste for that. That is why I am online all the time now, because at least there, I can talk to people. Although it is not enough, and it's not really what I need.

That is also why I followed a suggestion and looked at volunteering. I am now doing a course for 7 months which is every week for several hours. But that is not enough to fill the void. And even that, I have to pay for the training. I don't know, now, where I will find the money.

So, that is why I am trapped. And I don't see easy answers because I really want and need workable solutions.



quiet0lady said:


> He and I were both really independent people, we were each happy with our own lives and didn't need to completely depend on each other in order to be happy. Knowing that is what drew me closer. The thing I seem to have trouble with and probably will always have trouble with in the future is when a guy reaches a certain degree of clinginess and dependence on me. That becomes incredibly overwhelming and smothering for me and I usually back off. I don't want to become someone else's _entire_ world, just as I don't want someone else to become my entire world. Some people view being apart and space as a negative thing, but personally I think it's extremely healthy not to get completely lost in someone else to the point where you lose yourself when you aren't with that person.


That was helpful thank you.

Why is it overwhelming when he reaches a certain degree of clinginess and dependence? Overwhelming how?
I don't understand that but would like to. How does it feel, what is upsetting about it?

What is smothering?

Why is it disturbing to feel that you've become someone else's entire world?

I do lose myself in the other person.

These are the cardinal questions. Any light you can shed on the depth of it would be great. Mainly the emotions and values that produce the backing away response.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Because when you're around somebody closely all the time you have to constantly deal with somebody's needs, emotions, behavioral patterns, etc. It can become draining, annoying, boring, frightening, etc. Sometimes you just don't want to be burdened or smothered by somebody else.


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## Lumiere (Jun 13, 2009)

CrystalMaid said:


> Ye gods! My last beloved also went two years without a relationship (and for him that means two years without physical intimacy of any kind, because he will only do it if there's love - another reason I loved him so, that is rare) AND he has said identical things without contact. It's so HARD to understand, considering how close and warm he was with me.
> 
> There is one thing though.
> 
> ...


If he says he doesn't have anxiety around others then my point-of-view is likely to be very different from his, but in my case, at times of heightened anxiety (like the ones your ex seems to have been going through, financially and with chronic pain), I'm more likely to retreat into myself just to minimise the amount of anxiety I'm having to deal with.
This may not be the case for him, though.
I think in this instance the best thing you can do is ask him for an honest answer and then just accept what he tells you.
I know it is very hard to do, though.


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## Bad Barometer (Mar 4, 2010)

CrystalMaid said:


> What is Space?
> 
> Why do people want it?
> 
> ...


I thought this was going to be an informative post about what "Space" is, lol, but I agree with CrystalMaid.

Romantic, Close or even just plain, I think it's the interaction with other people I find exciting. My life was always watching from the sidelines, hearing stories second-hand, but when you are in the story, it makes it that much better. It's kinda like leeching happiness off others, while creating memories as you go.

The only flaw I can see is that if you're not doing something, than the time is wasted. I can remember times where it would be myself and a few friends sitting in a room, silent and doing nothing(We weren't high or drunk if you're wondering lol).

I've found the best time to spend large amounts of time with people are at Cottages. I go every year for a week in a small town (Pop'n. 400). About 7-12 of us go and we just kick back, chill, do whatever that week. Even if you're doing nothing, you're still doing something.

- B.B.


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## Hello22 (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm actually the opposite to you (CrystalMaid); i cannot fathom being around someone all the time, or not only that, but i cannot be too close to someone in the mental sense. I love my alone time/ solitude and wouldnt swap it for anything. I get very physically and mentally drained by being around people, even friends. I have to leave the room even when im having fun to be alone. it kind of energieses my mentality.


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## Cedilla (Dec 25, 2009)

My need for "space" kills all my relationships, with friends, family, and romantic interest. I'm a pretty introverted person, I just can not relax completely when I am around people. I can handle short term social interactions pretty well. However there is always this uneasiness that I don't always feel when I am around people, but it always feels like a huge weight has been lifted when I am alone.

Its pretty easy for me to lose track of people, sometimes I will try to stay connected with people I love on a regular basis, but days turn to weeks, turn to months, then I just can't make myself contact this person, because I feel like I've grown too far apart.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I have to BREATHE.
If my "girlfriend" keeps talking to me all of the time, I might as well put a garbage bag over my head and sing Lisa Loeb "You say......I only hear what I want to...." :troll.


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

^like in she-passes-gas-alot you need to breathe? I get it.


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

polythene said:


> I go mad when I'm around people constantly. A lot of my activities are solitary ones, too, so having people around interferes with them. This isn't to say I never want to interact, but that I need to do it in doses. Mostly I like to spend time with someone I like, take a break, see them again, repeat, etc.
> .


They say thats the pattern for introverts. They feel drained by a lot of contact and need time to recharge themselves. Extroverts are energized by contact. That's normal I found out.


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

CrystalMaid said:


> *What is Space?*
> 
> *Why do people want it?*
> 
> And yet there are those who want this "Space". This I need to understand.


*Space... the Final Frontier.* These are the voyages of the human _Enterprise_. Its five-year mission: *to explore strange new worlds; to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before.*

These people have gotten it.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

^ That explains my earlier obsession with them.


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

^so I cleared that one for you then. Well my mission for today is done. I shall attempt sleep now.


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## BrokenDreams (Nov 22, 2008)

Sunshine009 said:


> *Space... the Final Frontier.* These are the voyages of the human _Enterprise_. Its five-year mission: *to explore strange new worlds; to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before.*


LOL! :haha


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

CrystalMaid said:


> What is Space?
> 
> Why do people want it?


They want it because they want to break up but don't have the common courtesy to go out and say it. They just hope you'll go away eventually.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*'You need to do not think'*



Akane said:


> No you cannot sit around thinking about it and change yourself or your needs. The solution is to fulfill the need other ways. You can't make it go away. Placing it all on your significant other though is going to end 99% of relationships. You sound like you do plenty of thinking. Really thinking does not improve anything. Lots of people on this forum sit around thinking and all they do is get themselves in more trouble. You have to do not think. If you are not getting the social contact you need and it's causing your relationships to end then you need to figure out how to get more social contact. Not figure out how to avoid needing it. You also don't need to figure out how to have a relationship despite it. Neither of those will work long term.
> 
> Find hobbies, take classes, go walk around the mall.... I know anyone on this forum likely has problems doing those things but that's the type of stuff that will help. You will be around people. I started martial arts to meet people and get out of the house because college was not helpful at all in that area. It was the same as highschool. Go to class, sit through class, leave class, and still fail to make a sound for days at a time. I also picked a martial art that involved working directly with partners and physical contact rather than striking at mats and pads. I also did dog training classes every week until recently.
> 
> ...


This remains awesome advice. I'd like to see more of your posts at my recent stuff. Now I have more to lose, as you may see from my news.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*Why I might even need Space*



Prodigal Son said:


> Because when you're around somebody closely all the time you have to constantly deal with somebody's needs, emotions, behavioral patterns, etc. It can become draining, annoying, boring, frightening, etc. Sometimes you just don't want to be burdened or smothered by somebody else.


Hey!! I've been feeling it's a bit "draining, annoying, boring, frightening, etc." being around my new boyfriend all the time. And not that I don't like him and really enjoy his company, cos I do, it just is overwhelming.... and draining.

I thought that means I'm abnormal or that HE wants space.

COULD IT BE that I want Space???????????????????


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*Politeness*



Witan said:


> They want it because they want to break up but don't have the common courtesy to go out and say it. They just hope you'll go away eventually.


Awesome. Yes, I think in extreme cases when you start seeing the writing on the wall it is about that.

Politeness like that is kinda a weird concept for me but I guess it is conceivable. Maybe people don't like burning bridges or getting a bad rep, or just wanna avoid confrontation. Who knows.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*The search for Spock*



Sunshine009 said:


> *Space... the Final Frontier.*
> 
> These people have gotten it.


BUT WHERE IS MR. SPOCK?!

He is my main man.

Live long and prosper


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

Haha, wrong series, but Spock has been on that show a few times from episodes that were made for him.


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## CrystalMaid (Feb 22, 2010)

*Spock*



shyvr6 said:


> Haha, wrong series, but Spock has been on that show a few times from episodes that were made for him.


Yah! It's so very much the wrong series! 
There is only one, the original


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## Music Fan (Apr 4, 2010)

Well Of Course I need time to think alone
But when I am in love I'd like to see my crush/Love It boost my Self Confidence/Hope and I feel like I am something


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## pyramidsong (Apr 17, 2005)

:blank

Wow. This thread is...um...

When I'm dating someone I'm happy to see them once a week. I'm sorry to come off as a judgmental ******, but I can't help but feel that co-dependency is the result of the inability or unwillingness to develop one's own identity. Living through someone else is not healthy, IMHO.


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## herb the dolphin (Mar 26, 2010)

^^^ Yup. 

You sound clingy. 

If you get really worried that someone isn't being 'faithful' to you or doesn't like you when they're not around then you have issues. 

It's draining to have to reassure someone constantly, but it's also draining to have to be 'on' all the time and to feel like you're not allowed to be your own person.


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