# Pick up artists: Lame or Cool?



## hyacinth_dragon (Dec 28, 2008)

What do you think of guys like Mystery and these other pick up artist people out there? 

I don't get why there are no female pick up artists that pick up guys.

My personal opinion for guys is if you want to learn how to pick up women watch Criss Angel. He's like way better than Mystery. And he's not a professional pick up artist.


----------



## DaveM (May 29, 2008)

I think the mainstream launch of pickup into popular culture (ala VH1's "The Pickup Artist") has given a bum rep for such activities. I think when you learn pickup from shows like that, it causes you to be artificial, and women will quickly pick up on that vibe. Having said that, there are certain pickup artists who have taught me to become more true with myself. To become more interesting. To become more positive. These are the true pioneers in determining how you really should be (when it comes from a genuine place in your heart).

Basically, I look down upon 'acting' like someone you're not. Occasionally, I will give guys on this board advice on what they should say or how they should perceive certain situations. This isn't to get guys to become 'canned' versions of themselves, but rather to actually experience success and see for themselves what can be accomplished with a little bit of effort.


----------



## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

women contribute more to the reproduction process so we get to choose and men are the chasers.. women are rarely the chasers and normally only become so if they see a guy whos amazing n dont wanna wait or if their desperate and its their only hope


----------



## midnight77 (Jan 13, 2009)

remember it's a t.v. show. i would honestly laugh if i ever saw this "mystery". the goggles,the top hat, the feather boa, and crushed velvet coat. if i was a woman i'd be more interested in running away than talking to him. as for picking people up it all depends on what you are trying to get out of it. i use to have friends that had alter egos when they went out. by day regular job, but at a bar they were a pilot who delivered 10 babies all the while coming up with the cure for cancer.


----------



## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

I think its lame, but it doesn't surprise that there are women retarded enough for this "art" to work on. Every time I see that Mystery *******, I want to knock off his stupid hat and violently twist on his earrings and chin piercings causing permanent scarring on his ugly face. He just gives off this air of "Yeah, you know you're jealous." I hate him so much.


----------



## _AJ_ (Jan 23, 2008)

its good for guys who just wanna get laid

as for us guys who want a relationship, we prefer to look at women as people, not as game


----------



## tremelo (Oct 29, 2008)

mystery is a complete and utter douche, but for some reason i couldn't help but stop and watch that hot mess of a show every time i flipped by it.

still, i don't get his 'peacocking' theory (i.e. dressing in absurd clothing to catch a woman's eye). i'm all for someone doing their own thing/dressing however they deem appropriate/cool, but seriously, wft? did a hot topic circa 1997 throw a clearance sale or something before the show was filmed? the man has more puffy shirts than any self-respecting individual (male or female) should EVER be allowed.

this is why i should no longer own a tv- i always get sucked into these craptastic shows late at night when i can't sleep and end up hating myself in the morning. damn you, vh1!!!


----------



## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

Pretty lame, especially when they wear the stupid hats and sunglasses and other dumb s--t.


----------



## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

If it works for him...I really don't care. It is for picking up drunk club chicks anyway, right?


----------



## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

Overall, I don't like why they are pick up artists. Kissing random girls every night is just waiting to catch some disease, but I did like some of their methods for opening up and talking to people.


----------



## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

shyvr6 said:


> Overall, I don't like why they are pick up artists. Kissing random girls every night is just waiting to catch some disease, but I did like some of their methods for opening up and talking to people.


Yeah, how do these guys have sex with so many women and not catch some venereal diseases? 1 in 5 people have genital herpes and the odds go up significantly when you've been with 100 women. These men have diseases, yet probably have sex with women with disclosing it. They care nothing about the consequences of their actions. They are absolute scum.


----------



## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

I am going to become a pickup artist and start my own show. "Chip Doody Gets Booty" will be the name. Chip Doody is my joke nickname is real life. I'm going to make millions and it's going to be awesome.

This will be my hat:










This will be my coat:


----------



## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

You also need a cane and a Bedazzler. To be an efficient pick-up artist you must Bedazzle a cane, otherwise you will never get the ladies. I should know. I stroll down to the local college campus daily in my fur coat, goggles, and regal velvet cape, twirling my bejeweled cane, and they just can't keep their eyes off of me.


----------



## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

Drella said:


> You also need a cane and a Bedazzler. To be an efficient pick-up artist you must Bedazzle a cane, otherwise you will never get the ladies. I should know. I stroll down to the local college campus daily in my fur coat, goggles, and regal velvet cape, twirling my bejeweled cane, and they just can't keep their eyes off of me.


And don't forget your pimp cup. :yes

Have a nice day,
Kelly


----------



## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm sorry, Drella. How did I even think I was going to get any ***?


----------



## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

You found out about the pimp cup?! Oh God, I'll rat out the guy that killed Jon Benet Ramsay if you promise to stop telling my suave secrets.


----------



## tremelo (Oct 29, 2008)

Drella said:


> You also need a cane and a Bedazzler. To be an efficient pick-up artist you must Bedazzle a cane, otherwise you will never get the ladies. I should know. I stroll down to the local college campus daily in my fur coat, goggles, and regal velvet cape, twirling my bejeweled cane, and they just can't keep their eyes off of me.


one should never underestimate the transformative powers of a properly executed Bedazzling.

ladyfolk are generally drawn to shiny objects...


----------



## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

Drella said:


> You found out about the pimp cup?! Oh God, I'll rat out the guy that killed Jon Benet Ramsay if you promise to stop telling my suave secrets.


Well, I didn't tell them about how the pimp cup has to be bedazzled too...

Have a nice day,
Kelly


----------



## tremelo (Oct 29, 2008)

don't forget, you also need an ample supply of pimp juice to put in that cup...


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

It's a CHALICE, ladies....a bedazzled CHALICE! :lol


----------



## hyacinth_dragon (Dec 28, 2008)

Drella said:


> You also need a cane and a Bedazzler. To be an efficient pick-up artist you must Bedazzle a cane, otherwise you will never get the ladies. I should know. I stroll down to the local college campus daily in my fur coat, goggles, and regal velvet cape, twirling my bejeweled cane, and they just can't keep their eyes off of me.


LMAO :haha


----------



## hyacinth_dragon (Dec 28, 2008)

BeNice said:


> I am going to become a pickup artist and start my own show. "Chip Doody Gets Booty" will be the name. Chip Doody is my joke nickname is real life. I'm going to make millions and it's going to be awesome.
> 
> This will be my hat:
> 
> ...


That's hot. :haha


----------



## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

a community college where all the hookers are


----------



## hyacinth_dragon (Dec 28, 2008)

millenniumman75 said:


> It's a CHALICE, ladies....a bedazzled CHALICE! :lol


A BEDAZZLED CHALICE! I think I'm in love !!!!! :mushy

I'm obviously kidding.

However I might reconsider if a guy drove a vehicle like this one AND carry a bedazzled chalice.....so suave :b:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileimpmobile.jpg


----------



## Non (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree with DaveM.

Though I don't want to just lay women, I want a girlfriend. If by chance I can't find a girlfriend I have no choice but to just get laid to fulfill my biological "needs", or at least a strong desire to. 

I also don't agree with the whole sort of mysogynist or sexist view ( if you want to call it that ) that it seems the leaders of the commercial pick up artist community have of women, and even the nature of humanity.

It is not just "instinct over logic". That's the way they sort of portray women, as if they are just machines, cold and calculating. In fact it has contributed the reason why I gave up on the whole "mating" thing... because it portrays us as just animals.

yea we are sort of like biological machines but that doesn't mean you have to over emphasize autonomy to the point of becoming trapped by it as so many believe. In fact not a lot of people know what it is to truly be a human being integrated with all its "higher" functions and potential. We are not supposed to be "mediocre". True nature is not what it's made out to be in these images of the "false ego" which the authors of a majority of the pick up artist community portray.

Just be careful and use reasoning. Don't rely too much on external information.


----------



## joejoe (May 16, 2009)

I just started watching season 1 of Vh1's Pickup Artists and came back with some positive feelings. Let me preface this by saying I hate reality tv, I hate VH1, and I hated their fashion sense....BUT

what they're doing through the show anyways is a form of exposure therapy and therefore has some therapeutic value. The openers and talking to the "set" are tools, artificial yes, but nonetheless useful in starting a conversation. If anything they're metaphorically training wheels to get you started. So as cheesey and artificial they might sound, I can't dismiss the utilitarian value.

personally I'm trying to or will start trying to meet women again and while its been a long time and i'm 33 and fashions have long and changed since i've been clubbing, I found the show an emotional boost to further try. I related to the guys quite a bit and almost had some tear jerking moments even after the 2nd episode. And I'm not one to shed a tear at scripted drama, but I did feel their panic, angst, and social anxiety.

I find that some people perceive the show as misogynistic, and perhaps superficially it is. Man uses a formula to pick up girls for sex? It seems far more profound than that. Its about empowering the person, in this case the man, and not about the women or couples he's talking to. The subject is already too focused on what the woman is thinking or feeling that it would be ridiculous to remind him of that. They've already got big hearts, so there's no worry they'll turn into ********. So as a methodology for starting conversation and maintaining it with a complete stranger, if its found useful, then by all means use it. What you do beyond that, such as connecting with shared interests and passions is up to the individual.

I'll continue to watch it but I sure wish it wasn't a format of elimination. I'd really like to see how even the most ill confident of them progress, but such is the state of tv drama i guess.


----------



## pyramidsong (Apr 17, 2005)

I think if a guy wants to try this stuff to pick up a girl and she's dumb enough not to see through it, good luck to them both.

What a lot of people might not be taking into account is that a) a woman may have actually read all about PUAs and laughed my...uh....*her* head off at its ridiculousness, and b) some women aren't into charming guys. I can honestly say that when a guy is charming or flirtatious I can see straight through it and find it smarmy. And things like negs. Oh my god. If someone insults me, I am not intrigued and thinking "hot!", I am thinking, "what a jerk." Before I quickly make my exit. EW.


----------



## glarmph (May 21, 2009)

One word: scumbags.


----------



## Iced Soul (Jan 28, 2009)

It's lame and annoying because guys actually try this crap.
It *may* get you laid with an obviously stupid girl, but beyond that, nothing.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Pick up artists are just names to describe what everyone else does in the world -- flirt. Everybody goes through a transition of learning and adapting to become more successful with dating. Do I think it's lame? No, just as long as your not a lamer who's doing it or out to hurt anyone's feelings.

I started off with dating gurus such as David DeAngelo, Style, Mystery, etc so I could get a better sense of what women wanted. Now that I look back I was doing it because I was unsure of women, of myself and needed SOME confidence or guidance that would help me or motivate me to date or be successful at dating. It's good to be motivated and spurred on to meet and flirt with women, the only bad part is that some of these dating gurus instill a sense of inferiority into their listeners (i.e. being alpha/beta). They insist that you shouldn't be a "pussified" weakling of a man but rather a superman of men (alpha male). 

I'd encourage those who want to be "alpha" to forget showing your dominance over everyone and accept your imperfections and make them your strengths. Without a sense of weakness we may have a hard time finding out what we need or want in life. When we feel lonely or inadequate we are motivated to change, to learn and to develop ourselves. You see, being weak isn't being "beta". The more we try to be strong when we feel "weak" inside the more we are ignoring our basic emotional fundamentals. Instead of focusing on being "alpha", focus on what your body is telling you and try to satisfy those needs in a healthy manner such as learning the healing wonders of love (forgiveness, acceptance, etc). THOSE are much more powerful than acting "alpha" and will give you want you were looking for the entire time -- confidence. Acting confident when your not usually signifies insecurities. Stop going against your emotions and accept them, show them, talk about them and they will go away; it's a way of learning how to become more open. Women aren't looking for guys who act one way to cover up their emotions.

Blah, I have too much to say on this subject, but being truly confident isn't acting a certain way that you don't feel naturally. I don't know how else to say it but to simple say that the basics of positive emotional fundamentals such as the element of love will bring more confidence to you than anything else. Love is acceptance, love is forgiveness, it is giving/learning, being open, etc. These elements are much more important to your esteem than any technique a pick up artists displays.

What hurts me is realizing that I was stupid/naive enough to believe it at one point in my life (sigh)


----------



## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

PUA industry is foremost a commercial enterprise, with the goal of selling as much advice as possible. The PUA leaders are undoubtedly some of the most charismatic gifted marketers around; and while these techniques may work in their hands, I suspect it's much harder for you're average guy. The sad thing is I think the PUA industry does represent a real undercurrent in the mind of the male dating scene. The industry wouldn't be around if they didn't think they could profit off self conscious males. At best I'd call it a placebo, I've yet to see someone who's gone from being single to being in a relationship with a real girl using these techniques. Didn't George Sodini, the gym shooter, snap after going to one of these? Perhaps these only make you feel worst about yourself.

And I agree with AJ, it's not for people who want a long term relationship based on respect.


----------



## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

hyacinth_dragon said:


> What do you think of guys like Mystery and these other pick up artist people out there?


From what I've read, PUAs are just like scientists. They study human behavior and figure out which methods get a particular result, and which don't. They're neither lame nor cool. They just "are".



hyacinth_dragon said:


> I don't get why there are no female pick up artists that pick up guys.





kathy903 said:


> women contribute more to the reproduction process so we get to choose and men are the chasers.. women are rarely the chasers and normally only become so if they see a guy whos amazing n dont wanna wait or if their desperate and its their only hope


^This


----------



## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

ummm.... how do pickup artists call those who has no problem at getting women... "natural"? am I correct, no ?


----------



## Madison_Rose (Feb 27, 2009)

_AJ_ said:


> its good for guys who just wanna get laid
> 
> as for us guys who want a relationship, we prefer to look at women as people, not as game


Well said, that man.

I haven't seen the show in question. However, I don't like this weird idea that men are meant to do the picking-up and we females just wait until you come to us. Kind of unfair on the guys, no? I don't think that's a result of biology, I think it's a social construct.

Wouldn't life be so much easier if people were just honest about what they wanted? That way, when I politely turn a guy down, he would _leave me alone_ instead of assuming I'm "playing hard to get" and keep pestering me. Grr. I don't understand that "playing hard to get" thing. I've never done it - I'm either interested or I'm not, and I'm pretty clear about it. Why lie?


----------



## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Madison_Rose said:


> Well said, that man.
> 
> I haven't seen the show in question. However, I don't like this weird idea that men are meant to do the picking-up and we females just wait until you come to us. Kind of unfair on the guys, no? I don't think that's a result of biology, I think it's a social construct.
> 
> *Wouldn't life be so much easier if people were just honest about what they wanted?* That way, when I politely turn a guy down, he would _leave me alone_ instead of assuming I'm "playing hard to get" and keep pestering me. Grr. I don't understand that "playing hard to get" thing. I've never done it - I'm either interested or I'm not, and I'm pretty clear about it. Why lie?


Well, I never liked the conditional tense. Conditional tense is what keeps people from improving. *If, could would and should* have nothing to do with what is.

What is true, is that i clearly remember after having to listen to a heart-breaking 'let's just be friends speech' from a girl, this same girl calls me 6 months later saying she's missed me. You might think there shouldn't be a 'game' but i find that, unless you're dealing with another SAer like yourself , you are going to have to play along, or continue trying to fight off society by yourself.

As for pick-up artists. I have no opinion towards them. They are popular for two reasons-

a) being annoying sells, the more angry women complain about the stereotypes of these PUA's, the more popular they become

b) many men, including some of us SAers will at one point or another, look up a PUA's advice.

Don't you know that combining a sub-parr product with annoying-offensive packaging/advertising has always lead to great business ?


----------



## JMX (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm actually jealous of them, not because of the fact that they can pick up women, but because they are able to get what they want.


----------



## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

I think it's a sign of how difficult finding a partner has become. Women in general want guys that are confident and successful. A lot of guys arent really like that, or they feel they can't meet a womans expectations, so they have to fake it or employ these techniques to get past the first hurdle with a woman. Likewise woman have their own ways of attracting males mostly involves working on their appearance though. I don't agree with trying to sleep with loads of women but i think there is some useful flirting advice and insight into how women are to be taken from the pickup movement. I think a lot of these things are used in dating anyway but the pickup movement is just bringing it out in the open.


----------



## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

They are mostly lame.


----------



## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*Hmm*

Pick up Artists are not scientists. For one thing, if what they did was observe people and base their "systems" on that, pretty much all the PUA stuff would be the same. And yet, it isn't. This isn't about observing human behaviour. For one thing, the indiviaul is a chaotic factor when it comes to the observation of human behaviour and, when you reach a point in observation and analysis, logic falls and fails or else must become another kind of logic. But I digress. The point is: nine times out of ten, PUA do not "understand women". They just think they do. They start to believe their own hype. They believe the woman is playing hard to get even up until the moment she calls the police.

To be fair, if the focus is on "inner game" (I wish they hadn't started to create their own nonsense language but I believe that's what they call it), I don't mind. If people find that working on "inner game" whilst being respectful to others helps them overcome problems or issues in their lives, that's good. The unfortunate thing is, I've seen a lot of Pick up Artists and enough for me to give a lot of them the nicname: "borderline sex pests".

One of the worst things I've seen Pick Up Artists do is drop self-esteem bombs. Not with the women they are trying to "pick up". But with the people they want to sell their "system" to. Their first weapon is the flawed notion that life is about "skills": Social skills, social charisma (whatever that is) etc, etc. They have to use this notion. A person's rate of success with women may be as it is for a variety of reasons. But that's not what the PUA wants the person to think. Instead, the person has to be persuaded that it's all their fault. They don't have the skills, social confidence, they've been doing stuff wrong, they've been doing this, that and the other thing....blah...blah..blah.

The person then looks back at his relationships with women and makes the assumption that he is where he is with women because of the things he got wrong. It's his fault. Thinking like this takes down the self esteem and makes a person emotionally vulnerable. It's a form of bullying. You see a similar thing on fashion makeover programmes where two "experts" go around making people feel bad about what they are wearing so that they can get them to agree to be dressed by the "experts".

They start talking nonsense about "alpha males" and "beta males" and other stuff until you start to forget that it's a philosophy and not based on much reality.

It's a bit like the guys who bombard my email inbox with "the secrets of fabulous wealth". These guys have made millions but, instead of living it up on the yachts, they want to tell me, a complete stranger, how to do it and all for the small price of...hang on a second...I have to pay for it? Why do these people need the money? Similiar, if these guys are "experts" with women and have what they want in life, why on earth would they spend their time helping complete strangers to get to the same place and then charge for it? Why?

Nothing can obscure the truth of a person. Sure, you can wear a disguise but people will see through it eventually- especially if you end up in a relationship with someone. So why spend all this energy learning to "act" as someone you're not with people. Sorry, but the whole PUA thing is based on the nonsense that, unless you follow their "systems", you won't get great results with women and that there's something wrong with you or what you've been doing that explains your lack of success with women.

As I've said, some PUA are more "genuine" than others when it comes to helping people with confidence, self esteem etc. But a lot of them play and sometimes feed on creating low self esteem in others and even worse.

I know what it's like. Right now, my social cirlce has been restored and I go out a lot, lot, lot more than I used to. The negative stuff is still there. It has residual traces but it's lost its power base and is a lot more vulnerable to the strength of the positive ideas and thinking. That said, I remain slightly critical of myself when it comes to interacting with women. I worry about whether I'm even attractive. I worry that I've said the wrong, am doing the wrong thing etc, etc. I occasionally get jealouse of friends of mine who, to my eyes, seem much better at talking to women. But then, I recently found out that one of those mates was actually jealous of me because he thought I was better at talking to a girl he liked and she flirted more with me than with him. I'd sort of missed that because of the way my thinking was at the time.

If someone said to you: "life is easy and you can have everything you ever longed for just by following this system", you'd laugh. Life is complicated. Circumstances rule men as much as men rule circumstances and chaos slips into even the most ordered of things. And yet, someone comes along and says they are 100% sure that you will have amazing success with women if you follow their system, people buy into it.

Adults can make their own judgements. But nine times out of ten, the only "secret influence tricks" these pick up artists know are along the lines of how to persuade someone to buy their products or attend their classes. And a lot of the time, they can't even do that. Yeah, magical powers with women but you can't get me to spend over a hundred quid to go to your seminar...hmm...


----------



## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

Just another example of what a sad world we live in.


----------



## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> To be fair, if the focus is on "inner game" (I wish they hadn't started to create their own nonsense language but I believe that's what they call it), I don't mind. If people find that working on "inner game" whilst being respectful to others helps them overcome problems or issues in their lives, that's good. The unfortunate thing is, I've seen a lot of Pick up Artists and enough for me to give a lot of them the nicname: "borderline sex pests".
> 
> One of the worst things I've seen Pick Up Artists do is drop self-esteem bombs. Not with the women they are trying to "pick up". But with the people they want to sell their "system" to. Their first weapon is the flawed notion that life is about "skills": Social skills, social charisma (whatever that is) etc, etc. They have to use this notion. A person's rate of success with women may be as it is for a variety of reasons. But that's not what the PUA wants the person to think. Instead, the person has to be persuaded that it's all their fault. They don't have the skills, social confidence, they've been doing stuff wrong, they've been doing this, that and the other thing....blah...blah..blah.


Well said, bwidger. I've been tempted to try this PUA stuff off and on for a while now, but now I realize that they're attempting to capitalize on my low self-esteem.


----------



## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

You know, there are women out there that don't mind a stuttering nervous guy or a guy that isn't good at the whole getting to know them/picking them up thing. To quote my girlfriend "I f-----g hate confident people!"


----------



## pjm1978 (Sep 28, 2009)

Lame. For starts it is a reality tv show, which means there is probably alot of it that isnt even real. I do talk to women in bars and clubs and i would NEVER use any of that crap they pitch on the show.


----------



## ssmcivicsi (Jun 16, 2005)

joinmartin said:


> Nothing can obscure the truth of a person. Sure, you can wear a disguise but people will see through it eventually- especially if you end up in a relationship with someone. So why spend all this energy learning to "act" as someone you're not with people. Sorry, but the whole PUA thing is based on the nonsense that, unless you follow their "systems", you won't get great results with women and that there's something wrong with you or what you've been doing that explains your lack of success with women.


Wow great post!!

I'd love to quote the entire thing but I decided I'd do better focusing on this paragraph.

Here's my take on the PUAs...their methods are effective and they work for the short term; but in the end it has to be you.

At the end of the day no amount of techniques or a 'system' can change who you are when it comes to dating. I often joke to my friend about writing a book of 'lines' you can use in any situation, of course the problem is it would be impossible to factor in every single possibility of what someone might do or say. This includes different lines that you can use in similar situations with the same person, as to not be predictable. You'd seriously be left with a book that's over a trillion pages! So what this tells me is that those 'lines' need to come from within...this is why the PUAs fail.

PUAs can give you all sorts of funny and creative lines; but past that when the girl laughs and smiles or you change a 'set' you need MORE material!

IMO if someone were to follow the PUAs there are only 2 ways it can end: 1) the person slowly sees the real you, this could take months or years but it will eventually happen; 2) the person is none the wiser and it slowly drives you insane.


----------

