# Straight People: How Open Are You to Same-Sex Experimentation?



## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

Edit: By "straight people," I mean people who almost by default consider themselves straight just because heterosexuality is the norm.

I've always wondered how you would know that you don't like something if you've never tried it before.

Also, I was thinking of open in this sense:



> I'm open in the sense that the thought of having a sexual relationship with a woman isn't a repellent thought at all, but I've never really been sexually interested in any women I've met so far. It could happen though.


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## Hopeful25 (Aug 8, 2011)

Nope. I have nothing against homosexuals, but I'm as straight as you can be lol.


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## GunnyHighway (Sep 28, 2010)

One on one, not at all. No problem with people who enjoy it, but the thought hasn't crossed my mind at this point. But if somehow I managed to find a girlfriend and she REALLY BADLY wanted to experience something with two guys I might consider it as a one time thing. That's all I've really thought about that though.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Kissing and touching anything above the waist I would be open to, but female genitalia is of no interest whatsoever.


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## whiterabbit (Jan 20, 2006)

I'm open in the sense that the thought of having a sexual relationship with a woman isn't a repellent thought at all, but I've never really been sexually interested in any women I've met so far. It could happen though.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

I wouldn't see the point. I know I wouldn't enjoy it from the fact I'm not attracted to males.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Very open, but then I guess that means that I'm not straight.


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## Glacial (Jun 16, 2010)

Wouldn't you not be considered straight? More like bi-curious.


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

Am I the only guy that interpreted the homophobic comment as sarcasm?

EDIT: Ignore whatever I said there, the comment was still unacceptable. I haven't slept in 24 hours...I can be very easily confused at this point...

Anyway, no to the initial question. Can't say I'm interested at all.


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

Not interested.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

I have had a few gay thoughts here and there, but for the most part I just don't feel the attraction in it.


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

well to put it this way, i couldnt imagine having sex with another guy, what i could imagine is making out .. where does this put me?


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Somewhat open?


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## caseyblue (Oct 3, 2011)

I would be open to it if I was involved with a partner and it was something we'd try together not just me on my own with another woman.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

MaxSchreck said:


> well to put it this way, i couldnt imagine having sex with another guy, what i could imagine is making out .. where does this put me?


Weird, I'm the other way around lol. The "physical act", so to put it, wouldn't turn me on, but it wouldn't repulse me either. I'd probably just be like "well, this is a little uncomfortable." I could never make out with a guy, it would seem too intimate and I would find that very uncomfortable and awkward.


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

Yes, I think if a woman I liked hit on me, I would go for it. I would feel too awkward to make the first move.

I always thought I would make a great wife. I'm thinking now, if I had a real girlfriend, I would treat her the way I always wanted to be treated.

I love men. I just don't want, and can't handle being hurt anymore.


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## afraid2goinpublic (Nov 8, 2011)

WOW, What a topic!!! 
this is my only answer>>> Leviticus 18:22/20:13 google them,read them and YES I am a Christian! And NO I do NOT think homosexuality is right. God created man in His image and then created Eve from his rib as his mate, He did NOT create another man for him but WOMAN...................
Hate me if you will but I have very very strong religious beliefs and will not falter!!!


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> WOW, What a topic!!!
> this is my only answer>>> Leviticus 18:22/20:13 google them,read them and YES I am a Christian! And NO I do NOT think homosexuality is right. God created man in His image and then created Eve from his rib as his mate, He did NOT create another man for him but WOMAN...................
> Hate me if you will but I have very very strong religious beliefs and will not falter!!!


:roll


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

MaxSchreck said:


> :roll


+1.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Lock Watch****
A mod has already had to take action in this thread - I'll consider that an advisory and go straight to the watch. Keep it on topic.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

MaxSchreck said:


> :roll


+8


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> WOW, What a topic!!!
> this is my only answer>>> Leviticus 18:22/20:13 google them,read them and YES I am a Christian! And NO I do NOT think homosexuality is right. God created man in His image and then created Eve from his rib as his mate, He did NOT create another man for him but WOMAN...................
> Hate me if you will but I have very very strong religious beliefs and will not falter!!!


Keep it to the religion section.


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## afraid2goinpublic (Nov 8, 2011)

*Why dont u bite me*

If a question is asked who are you to tell people how to respond to it????
So BUGGER OFF



WalkingDisaster said:


> Keep it to the religion section.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> If a question is asked who are you to tell people how to respond to it????
> So BUGGER OFF


Fine then, but posts such as yours most often start arguments and derail threads or get them locked. Also, this thread by its title is clearly not aimed at homophobes. I wouldn't go on a Christian thread and start slagging people off because the thread wouldn't be aimed at me.


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## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

0% open. I have never felt a romantic or lustful thought towards another guy. Just not attracted to them.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> If a question is asked who are you to tell people how to respond to it????
> So BUGGER OFF


Also, I got your message. I'm surprised you had the intelligence to keep personal attacks off the public forums. :lol


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Not open at all & closed minded as hell when it comes to that.
I feel uncomfortable working with the gay dude at work after he started singing love songs out loud :blank


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

But it'd be fine if it was a female doing that?


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

Nope. Never.


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## Ventura (May 5, 2009)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> WOW, What a topic!!!
> this is my only answer>>> Leviticus 18:22/20:13 google them,read them and YES I am a Christian! And NO I do NOT think homosexuality is right. God created man in His image and then created Eve from his rib as his mate, He did NOT create another man for him but WOMAN...................
> Hate me if you will but I have very very strong religious beliefs and will not falter!!!


I hate to admit this- at one point I had that mind set  Due to a church I went to, they where very brainwashing in a lot of subjects! :| I switched churches- and felt much better.

One question, you don't think that 2 people of the same sex is capable of loving each other? - Everyone needs love, and companionship .

I am unsure if it is 'my thing' or not to try this- I still have no sexual thoughts! - haha thank meds for that


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

girls should be open to both though..just saying:yes


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I am very against it, because I find the act of kissing another guy or having sex with him, pretty repulsive. The same way a gay person would find kissing a member of the opposite sex repulsive. 

Nothing against gay people. I am a supporter of gay rights. I just don't fit that category!


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## Double Indemnity (Aug 15, 2011)

komorikun said:


> Kissing and touching anything above the waist I would be open to, but female genitalia is of no interest whatsoever.


This. You phrased it so much more eloquently than I was going to.


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## Double Indemnity (Aug 15, 2011)

GunnyHighway said:


> One on one, not at all. No problem with people who enjoy it, but the thought hasn't crossed my mind at this point. But if somehow I managed to find a girlfriend and she REALLY BADLY wanted to experience something with two guys I might consider it as a one time thing. That's all I've really thought about that though.


Nice. I wish more guys were open to this - not that I'm ever going to do it though. Well... anything is possible if I'm drunk. Haha.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

successful said:


> girls should be open to both though..just saying:yes


:roll


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Not open at all.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

let's keep the discussion civil folks.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> So BUGGER OFF


That's not very Christian of you. What happened to love thy neighbor? Or do you only choose to follow the Bible when you can use it to "support" your distaste for people who are different from you?


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## Think_For_Yourself (Dec 7, 2010)

I'll admit that I've been extremely attracted to traps before. If I ever went through with it, they would have to look exactly like a girl, and sound like one too.

Some traps are extremely feminine and attractive. That's all I'm gonna' say about that.


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## charmed (Oct 10, 2011)

I would say im bi-curious myself I would try it, and because it's same gender sex no worrying over the chance of the girl getting pregnant, it's almost risk free


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

Think_For_Yourself said:


> I'll admit that I've been extremely attracted to traps before. If I ever went through with it, they would have to look exactly like a girl, and sound like one too.
> 
> Some traps are extremely feminine and attractive. That's all I'm gonna' say about that.


Well for me it's a bit alike, although i wouldn't want him to sound like a girl a look like one, but yes on rare occasions i have met some extremely attractive/softer looking guy who got my thoughts in that direction.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Never.


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## Xtraneous (Oct 18, 2011)

Not at all.


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## CourtneyB (Jul 31, 2010)

rednosereindeer said:


> I've always wondered how you would know that you don't like something if you've never tried it before.


So you believe lesbians don't know that they don't like p*nis since a lot have never tried it?


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

David777 said:


> Where is the option for Hell motha fu*kin' no!!!


Lol for real


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## CourtneyB (Jul 31, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> If a question is asked who are you to tell people how to respond to it????
> So BUGGER OFF


The OP asked you to simply respond to the question at hand, a simple yes/no answer with a brief explanation would've sufficed. The bible scripture quote and lecture was completely unnecessary and really should be kept, as another has suggested, in the Spiritual section.


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## KelsKels (Oct 4, 2011)

I dont really know what I think. My personal opinion is that alot of people who are gay, become that way due to abuse. But I have had a crush on a girl before, so I dont really know. Ive been curious about dating a girl, like what the emotional difference would be. But I cant imagine having sex... I really enjoy a guy for that lol. On the other hand, label me a terrible person, but guy on guy stuff really freaks me out. I dont mind gay guys, as long as they keep their sex life to themselves.


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## Misanthropic79 (May 6, 2011)

rednosereindeer said:


> I've always wondered how you would know that you don't like something if you've never tried it before.


Ever tried a turd sandwich? Sometimes you don't need to try something to know you won't like it.

:roll @ Leviticus quote. Leviticus also endorses killing your kid if it answers you back, amongst promoting other religiously psychotic behaviour. Leviticus is redundant.

Anyways to the question, male-not open at all.


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

Misanthropic79 said:


> Ever tried a turd sandwich? Sometimes you don't need to try something to know you won't like it.


I've never tried a turd sandwich, but I've tried all sorts of food I wouldn't normally eat that I did like. I did almost always feel sick after I was told what it was I just ate, and I wonder if gay sex is as "icky" for many people mostly because the concept just is something they're not used to.



> So you believe lesbians don't know that they don't like p*nis since a lot have never tried it


In a world where your typical love story revolves around a boy and a girl, I'm pretty sure most gay people have had an SO of the opposite sex before they start actively looking for someone of the same sex.

Regarding the Leviticus bit, I'm not sure why a lot of people are giving afraid2goinpublic a hard time. In her original reply she was just explaining why she'd vote "no," and the eye-rollings she'd received in response was unnecessary.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

Hmm, I find females beautiful and attractive sometimes but I'm not really sexually attracted towards them. I would open somewhat but if it doesn't happen then oh well. I just find them hot or whatever but wouldn't care about seeing them naked or pleasuring them. I do get girl crushes soooo..I don't know what that is about. I mean on female celebs.


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## Misanthropic79 (May 6, 2011)

rednosereindeer said:


> I've never tried a turd sandwich, but I've tried all sorts of food I wouldn't normally eat that I did like. I did almost always feel sick after I was told what it was I just ate, and I wonder if gay sex is "icky" for many people mostly because the concept just is something they're not used to.


As far as food goes, the thought of eating cetain things being gross only to find out you like them is common but sexuality is completely different. I've known numerous gays and lesbians in my life and first saw 2 men kiss passionately when I was 5, so man on man action is nothing foreign to me. I can look at a man, clearly see that he's attractive but the thought of personally kissing/having sex with said man is repulsive to me and I feel deep down in the very fibre of my being that men are just not my thing.

I've heard gays say the same for sex with a female so it goes both ways.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Think_For_Yourself said:


> I'll admit that I've been extremely attracted to traps before. If I ever went through with it, they would have to look exactly like a girl, and sound like one too.
> 
> Some traps are extremely feminine and attractive. That's all I'm gonna' say about that.


I'm in the same boat :teeth (but I don't think I would follow through) I really dig androgyny in general tbh, in both men and woman.

However, although I can be attracted to men. it's not a sexual attraction. I have no interest in butt secks (both genders) and just the thought of another penis in my immediate vicinity is a repulsive and horrifying prospect:b

Theoretically speaking though, if it were a romantic non-sexual relationship I guess it could be possible for me to date another dude. But this is an unlikely arrangement in this day and age. (and eventually I would get sexually frustrated I imagine lol)


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## stupiditytries (Jan 10, 2011)

No, not appealing.


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## lissa530 (Oct 29, 2009)

komorikun said:


> Kissing and touching anything above the waist I would be open to, but female genitalia is of no interest whatsoever.


I feel the same way!


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## kenny87 (Feb 22, 2009)

> I hate to admit this- at one point I had that mind set Due to a church I went to, they where very brainwashing in a lot of subjects! I switched churches- and felt much better.


I hate to admit this, but homosexuality is explicitly forbidden in the bible, any normal church would teach that, and its right there in writing, no two ways about it, there is no brainwashing going on here, in fact if you switched churches to go to a place where they condoned this type of behavior, then they are the ones brainwashing.



> That's not very Christian of you. What happened to love thy neighbor?


She is just voicing an opinion based on religious facts, loving you neighbor doesn't mean condoning the way the act or not warning them of their behavior.

by the way I have only attended church once in my life, so I am not here to go on a religious rampage, It seems shocking the amount of backlash a person receives based on religion, and for the record I can't stand homosexuality, I used to ignore it but it has been so out of control these past few years I can't anymore, if I could reinstate sodomy laws nationwide I would do it.

oh man, I hope I opened a can of worms, need to rage tonight.


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## afraid2goinpublic (Nov 8, 2011)

*Are u serious!!!*

So because I am a christian I am not allowed to show anger?? is that what youre saying......hmmmmm well I think not sweety!! I told the TRUTH and backed it up with scripture and people dont like having the truth told to them, not in this day and age......:yes
AND IF ANYONE WANTS TO TAKE THE TIME AND READ MY POST YOU WILL SEE NO WHERE IN IT DO I JUDGE ANYONE, I QUOTED THE WORD OF GOD FROM THE BIBLE, I AM NOT HERE ON EARTH TO JUDGE PEOPLE,THAT IS UP TO GOD IN HEAVEN AND BETWEEN YOU AND GOD ONCE YOU STAND BEFORE HIM ON JUDGMENT DAY...... SO GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT.... NEVER DID I SAY I HATED ANYONE NOR DID I SAY I JUDGED ANYONE...... THIS THREAD WAS STARTED AND ASKED FOR AN ANSWER OR AN OPINION AND I DID JUST THAT ,GAVE MY OPINION..... I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO AGREE WITH IT NOW DID I?????:no NO ,NO,NO.........



au Lait said:


> That's not very Christian of you. What happened to love thy neighbor? Or do you only choose to follow the Bible when you can use it to "support" your distaste for people who are different from you?


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## afraid2goinpublic (Nov 8, 2011)

*Same as before.......*

So because I am a christian I am not allowed to show anger?? is that what youre saying......hmmmmm well I think not sweety!! I told the TRUTH and backed it up with scripture and people dont like having the truth told to them, not in this day and age......:yes
AND IF ANYONE WANTS TO TAKE THE TIME AND READ MY POST YOU WILL SEE NO WHERE IN IT DO I JUDGE ANYONE, I QUOTED THE WORD OF GOD FROM THE BIBLE, I AM NOT HERE ON EARTH TO JUDGE PEOPLE,THAT IS UP TO GOD IN HEAVEN AND BETWEEN YOU AND GOD ONCE YOU STAND BEFORE HIM ON JUDGMENT DAY...... SO GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT.... NEVER DID I SAY I HATED ANYONE NOR DID I SAY I JUDGED ANYONE...... THIS THREAD WAS STARTED AND ASKED FOR AN ANSWER OR AN OPINION AND I DID JUST THAT ,GAVE MY OPINION..... I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO AGREE WITH IT NOW DID I?????:no NO ,NO,NO.........



CourtneyB said:


> The OP asked you to simply respond to the question at hand, a simple yes/no answer with a brief explanation would've sufficed. The bible scripture quote and lecture was completely unnecessary and really should be kept, as another has suggested, in the Spiritual section.


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't care what other people do and I don't think it's wrong at all but there is no way in hell I'd have a relationship on any level with another woman. I barely tolerate them as friends. Mostly cause it's a bit harder to make friends with the opposite gender unless you make friends as couples.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

kenny87 said:


> She is just voicing an opinion based on religious facts, loving you neighbor doesn't mean condoning the way the act or not warning them of their behavior.


And is telling another poster to "bite her" and "bugger off" part of loving thy neighbor as well? Pretty sure she could have found a way to voice her opinion without that.



afraid2goinpublic said:


> I AM NOT HERE ON EARTH TO JUDGE PEOPLE


And yet that's what you are doing in this thread.


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

I guess I'm fairly open. It's kind of hard to judge since the situation's never presented itself, but as objectively as I can see it, I've nothing against it. I guess the only barriers to my bi-curiosity are both the social stigma of homosexual relationships and the predefined stereotype of "that kind of person", the kind of person I wouldn't imagine myself as being. 

I'm not physically attracted to men, and I don't find the prospect of sex with a guy appealing at all, but I think that's more down to it being somewhat of a deep seeded cultural taboo than it being immediately offputting. I mean, when I overthink it, sex with a woman is kind of disgusting too. Before I hit puberty, intimacy with anyone was something horrible to be avoided. It just so happened that that sensation resided with girls and remained with boys.

The main thing that hit home for me was the fact that I met my girlfriend in a chat room. I fell in love with her because of the things she said. Yeah, I'd seen a few pictures of her, but they weren't particularly clear, and that's besides the point. Had it turned out, by some bizarre twist, that she was in fact a guy pretending to be a girl, then I would have been undeniably in love with a man. Of course I would have been holy jesus freaked out but it wouldn't have removed from that. 

Which is why I have a hard time believing that every guy that claims they're oh so confidently 100% straight actually are, and that said certainty is anything more than a product of heterosexuality being drilled into their heads from infancy. Of course I only have my own experience as evidence to go on, but it's all I've got. If you were, theoretically, to blindfold any one of these guys and tell him a hot girl was gonna give
him a blowjob, only to get a guy to do it instead, would his pleasure be false? How far does the excuse of gay sex being "disgusting" remove from the fact that it is all entirely a product of his environment, an imaginary barrier built up in his head. I'm not trying to suggest that every straight guy should be bi-sexual, just that openness to the fact that it might be possible is far more than outright rejection of the mere thought. I know it's a weird thing to say, I'm sure that some of you now think I'm gay. But regardless, this thread is asking for my opinion on sexual preference. And this is it. 

Oh, and cat if you're reading this then I definitely didn't think you were a man.


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## Elizabeth419 (Sep 9, 2010)

Girls tend to be much more bisexual than men. I read a study once, i can't remember the name of it for the life of me, where they monitered seperated men and women watching porn. Women responded to all types, straight, gay men and women, you name it. And men only responded to straight porn unless they identified as homosexual. This is why I question my sexual orientation sometimes, I can't exactly tell if I'm bi or if there's some kind of bisexual percentage that a woman can be.


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## JustKittenRightMeow (Jul 25, 2011)

I think for me, it depends. I am fairly open about certain things. I admit to some family and friends that there are certain girls I think are hot and might go out with them if I could. LOL.


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## Matomi (Sep 4, 2011)

I don't mind Homosexuals if they're not like Daffyd Thomas from Little Britain. 
But i'm straight and always will be.


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## Marakunda (Jun 7, 2011)

I don't have anything at all against gays, but the thought of me having sex with a guy, it's just unimaginable to me... I don't know how to explain it, I guess it's just how I am. Experimentation is cool and all, but sometimes it's just not needed.

Fair play to guys that are ok with it and do it though, whether they're gay or not. And if they are gay, staying true to who you are is very important. 

So yeah, bangin...


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## JAkDy (Jan 23, 2011)

The awkward moment when you think the thread is about how open you are to same-sex relationships/marriage etc. And you put "very open", then see the results and think "wtf what a bunch of homophobes" only to see the thread actually is asking how open you are to same-sex experimentation.....

for the record i would put "male - not at all"


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## IcoRules (Apr 29, 2009)

I would say I'm not very interested, but you never know. It would depend on the situation.


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## Jinxx (May 10, 2011)

I'm somewhat open which has confused me most of my life. I've been attracted to girls before and would be open to kiss one but I'm creeped out genitalia wise so I just smack the Straight label upon myself anyways since I'm more comfortable with a guy & I'm more attracted to guys.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> So because I am a christian I am not allowed to show anger?? is that what youre saying......hmmmmm well I think not sweety!!* I told the TRUTH and backed it up with scripture and people dont like having the truth told to them, not in this day and age......:yes*


No, that is not the truth. The definition of "truth" is not what you read in a thousand year old book.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

kenny87 said:


> I hate to admit this, but homosexuality is explicitly forbidden in the bible, any normal church would teach that, and its right there in writing, no two ways about it, there is no brainwashing going on here, in fact if you switched churches to go to a place where they condoned this type of behavior, then they are the ones brainwashing.
> 
> She is just voicing an opinion based on religious facts, loving you neighbor doesn't mean condoning the way the act or not warning them of their behavior.
> 
> ...


I really don't get this opinion if I'm being honest. If two consenting adults want to do what-ever in the privacy of their own homes - I say go knock yourself out. Since it has no impact on what I do in my life - being laissez faire about the whole thing seems both reasonable and logical to me.

*As a side note though, where in the bible does it say anything against homosexuality? It's the actual act of sodomy that seems to take a right bashing in there, but other than that no mention. Can I then selectively interpret that a gay relationship without anything anal is A ok in God's eyes btw :b ?

Finally I'm going to let Louis CK have a word too:


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## xTKsaucex (Jun 23, 2010)

Ahhh the innuendoes, some people must be pretty open on here.


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

Paper Samurai said:


> Finally I'm going to let Louis CK have a word too:


finally, weird how i didnt think of that, i listen to that man every day


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

again, please people, let's keep it civil. personal beliefs are just that and only that, personal beliefs.


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## papaSmurf (Jun 16, 2008)

This is an interesting question! I'm heavily invested in the idea that gender and sexuality exist as fluid spectra rather than rigid binaries(and that gender is altogether separate from sexuality, of course), and I'm always looking to challenge my preexisting notions of self, but oodles of reflection on the matter has forced me to consider that I may just be a boring straight dude. Certainly there are plenty of dudes out there that I find attractive, though.

In a way, it kind of weirds me out that I'm not more bisexual than I am. I'm not at all fond of the idea that a random combination of genetics and social rules has more influence over who I find attractive than my own conscious thoughts.



komorikun said:


> Kissing and touching anything above the waist I would be open to, but genitalia is of no interest whatsoever.





Paper Samurai said:


> Theoretically speaking though, if it were a romantic non-sexual relationship I guess it could be possible for me to date another dude. But this is an unlikely arrangement in this day and age.


Pretty much this, yeah.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

Paper Samurai said:


> I really don't get this opinion if I'm being honest. If two consenting adults want to do what-ever in the privacy of their own homes - I say go knock yourself out. Since it has no impact on what I do in my life - being laissez faire about the whole thing seems both reasonable and logical to me.
> 
> *As a side note though, where in the bible does it say anything against homosexuality? It's the actual act of sodomy that seems to take a right bashing in there, but other than that no mention. Can I then selectively interpret that a gay relationship without anything anal is A ok in God's eyes btw :b ?
> 
> Finally I'm going to let Louis CK have a word too:


Loved that video! Hope some of SAS's resident homophobes see this and realise they're talking bull****!


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## JGreenwood (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't think I could KISS another guy. But sex just for fun and the experience maybe? That might make me weird but I don't think I would be against it given the right situation.


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## Double Indemnity (Aug 15, 2011)

JAkDy said:


> The awkward moment when you think the thread is about how open you are to same-sex relationships/marriage etc. And you put "very open", then see the results and think "wtf what a bunch of homophobes" only to see the thread actually is asking how open you are to same-sex experimentation.....
> 
> for the record i would put "male - not at all"


Lol.


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## kenny87 (Feb 22, 2009)

> *As a side note though, where in the bible does it say anything against homosexuality? It's the actual act of sodomy that seems to take a right bashing in there, but other than that no mention. Can I then selectively interpret that a gay relationship without anything anal is A ok in God's eyes btw :b ?


Your right, there is nothing wrong with attractions, but lets be honest, how many gay people don't have some kind of sex(oral counts also)?


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## enzo (May 30, 2011)

Nope. Not at all. I was hit on once, which didn't register till after the fact. Another man tried to openly seduce me. I did not feel good.


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

kiirby said:


> I guess I'm fairly open. It's kind of hard to judge since the situation's never presented itself, but as objectively as I can see it, I've nothing against it. I guess the only barriers to my bi-curiosity are both the social stigma of homosexual relationships and the predefined stereotype of "that kind of person", the kind of person I wouldn't imagine myself as being.
> 
> I'm not physically attracted to men, and I don't find the prospect of sex with a guy appealing at all, but I think that's more down to it being somewhat of a deep seeded cultural taboo than it being immediately offputting. I mean, when I overthink it, sex with a woman is kind of disgusting too. Before I hit puberty, intimacy with anyone was something horrible to be avoided. It just so happened that that sensation resided with girls and remained with boys.
> 
> ...


I like this post.

One thing I've wondered about is why guys who have a girl friend seem compelled to eventually develop "feelings" for her but is perfectly OK with how things are with a guy friend who he likes and gets along with just as much.


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## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

This thread is ridiculous. You don't consider yourself straight because that's the "norm", but because that's what you're drawn to. I guess you're one of these people who believes that inside a straight person is a gay one just waiting to bust out, that they just have to "try" it. Um, no. If someone were to say the opposite to a gay person, that they just have to try heterosexuality and they'll think it's great, they'd be sent to PC Nazi re-education camps.


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## SMOOZIE (May 26, 2011)

It would certainly be an interesting experience because of the understanding of each other's bodies and soft spots. It's like coupling with the same species. But it will never replace the type of attraction experienced toward the opposite sex, for me. Which all means, I would probably not become (publicly) a woman's romantic girlfriend, only in secret and only to a certain degree. But then, you never know...


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## Misanthropic79 (May 6, 2011)

kiirby said:


> Which is why I have a hard time believing that every guy that claims they're oh so confidently 100% straight actually are, and that said certainty is anything more than a product of heterosexuality being drilled into their heads from infancy. Of course I only have my own experience as evidence to go on, but it's all I've got. If you were, theoretically, to blindfold any one of these guys and tell him a hot girl was gonna give
> him a blowjob, only to get a guy to do it instead, would his pleasure be false? How far does the excuse of gay sex being "disgusting" remove from the fact that it is all entirely a product of his environment, an imaginary barrier built up in his head. I'm not trying to suggest that every straight guy should be bi-sexual, just that openness to the fact that it might be possible is far more than outright rejection of the mere thought. I know it's a weird thing to say, I'm sure that some of you now think I'm gay. But regardless, this thread is asking for my opinion on sexual preference. And this is it.
> 
> Oh, and cat if you're reading this then I definitely didn't think you were a man.


Your post is pretty interesting and there's no doubt in my mind that some guys, especially those that project a seriously over the top form of heterosexuality are sometimes over compensating and deep down might be a little curious but...........

the idea that most people who claim to be hetero actually wanting to be more sexually open and would be if social stigmas weren't as prevalent is just as silly as saying gays and lesbians should be more open to the opposite gender. There's no difference.

We are what we are and for sexuality in particular what you feel deep inside won't change even if you really like a person and feel connected to them. Friendship of the same gender can be just as strong or stronger than an actual relationship but as most heteros have had close bonds with same sex friends they'd die for yet never felt attracted to suggest, _most_ of us pick a team and stay with it for life because it's just how we feel.

This is just my opinion too btw. In Roman times, their society was definately more open sexually so I could be dead wrong. Who really knows? I'm just going with my gut.

:lol @ the blowjob scenario, you're half way right but you forgot about the earplugs! We could all be somewhat satisfied if we were blindfolded but if the person was doing it right the moaning/humming would give the gender away!


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## Glue (Oct 26, 2010)

No. Not open at all. I've been hit on by gay men, and it's flattering and all, but the thought of doing anything sexual with another man is disgusting to me.


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## secreta (Oct 15, 2011)

Very open, I think I could have sex with female, but never be in a serious relationship.


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

IcedOver said:


> I guess you're one of these people who believes that inside a straight person is a gay one just waiting to bust out, that they just have to "try" it.


No, you're wrong. I don't believe that inside a straight person is a gay one, just like I don't believe that inside a gay one that a straight one. I'm not even sure I believe that most people are either straight or gay (which is why the original question comes across as awkward, although I was trying to phrase it in a way that most people would understand). What I believe is sexuality is fluid and that most people are _capable _of being attracted to anyone of either sex, and that if weren't so unmanly for one man to like another man more male members would've been opened to having sexual experience with someone of the same sex, or at least not been so quick to dismiss the idea.

While I was making the poll it occurred to me to make it public. I wonder what the result would've looked like if everyone could see who voted what.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

^ you can bet it'd be different. after all, we're talking about some pretty personal stuff here, and people will say things anonymously that they wouldn't say publicly.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

*******thread warning*******

let's cool it on the graphic references, peeps.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Sexual contact with another man is pretty high on my list of things I don't want.

It's right up there with a 2nd term for Obama.


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## woot (Aug 7, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> Sexual contact with another man is pretty high on my list of things I don't want.
> 
> It's right up there with a 2nd term for Obama.


Agreed and agreed


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## Lonelyguy (Nov 8, 2003)

No. Just...no uke


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

It looks like a lot of guy here are somewhat repulsed by the idea of same sex exploration.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

I'm not repulsed by it, but I don't find other men sexually desirable. So, not open.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I wanted to ask this. Exact. Question.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Damn. I guess a lot of straight men here ...don't like the idea of being with another man.

Disgusting? Really? How about just being indifferent to it, like it does nothing for you? Why such a strong negative reaction?

I mean what the heck. 43 guys vs 11 women are not at all open. That says a lot.

Yes, I voted. I know I shouldn't have since I'm not straight, but I just had to see those results.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

I find my own body disgusting. I'm certain I don't find male bodies sexually attractive. I wouldn't care if I did, but I don't.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I mean what the heck. 43 guys vs 11 women are not at all open. That says a lot..


It says that more men voted than women, is all.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Okay, that's true.

But it's not like the overwhelming majority of women picked that, the way men did.

I'm just looking at that huge red bar and shaking my head.

I will do the math... so... 11 out of 47 women gave the answer that 44 out of 64 men gave.

23 percent vs 68 percent. Quite a difference. I'm not good at math but thought that was an interesting little math problem.

What I'm left thinking is...wtf is with men? especially since I know that very few people are 100 percent gay or straight.

I know that a good number of men who say being with another man is disgusting are lying. They're scared that if they say otherwise, they'll be judged.


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## Rest or Real? (Apr 1, 2011)

somewhat open, male.


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## fonz (Oct 15, 2008)

Somewhat open,maybe


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> 23 percent vs 68 percent. Quite a difference. I'm not good at math but thought that was an interesting little math problem.
> 
> What I'm left thinking is...wtf is with men? especially since I know that very few people are 100 percent gay or straight.
> 
> I know that a good number of men who say being with another man is disgusting are lying. They're scared that if they say otherwise, they'll be judged.


Yeah, I was just thinking that. Statistically it shows exactly what you were eluding to.

I'm the one that made it go from 43 to 44. I've had gay men try and pick me up, and I'm ok with that. I let them down politely. I flirt for fun with my gay boss and we joke about it a lot. I went with him to a gay film festival and let everyone just assume what they liked. I don't care about being judged (in that way: i care about being WRONGLY judged). When I say I am not gay it's not out of 'shame' but simple honesty. I'm not. That's that.

The fact is, I find the male genitalia disgusting - including my own. I'm not even comfortable with girls touching 'it'. That's why i am not open. I don't need to be. It doesn't interest or excite or even intrigue me in the least.

But a cute lady... that gets me 'agitated'.

I'm 100% straight. and I am 100% sure of that.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

So you find a part of your own body disgusting? That's terrible.

I am not trying to be rude but it is not likely you are 100 percent straight as few people are. I usually get men arguing with me about this because the idea that they could even be 1% attracted to men freaks them out so much they have to argue like hell.

Just like Louis C.K. admitting that yes, Ewan McGregor is really hot and he thinks he's hot and there's really nothing wrong with that, I wish men weren't so freaked out at the mere idea that they would be attracted to another man.

When I started feeling attracted to women, it never scared me or freaked me out. I guess women do have it a bit easier in that way. I know it's harder for men to admit to this. I just wish it wasn't. I don't understand the stigma around men's bodies touching. Anyone who's actually watched it would see that there's nothing wrong or disgusting or impure about it. I think it's one of the most beautiful things.

Maybe that was way tmi and I'll get in trouble with the mods, but...oh well. *hides*


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> So you find a part of your own body disgusting? That's terrible.


It IS terrible. It shouldn't be the case but it is. It actually makes it hard to get certain 'mouth to equipment' activities with ladies. I don't want them to put 'that' 'there'.

I am 100% straight because I have not a hint of sexual attraction or curiosity towards men, tested in numerous situations. I am not 'afraid' of it. Not in the least. I really wouldn't care if I was. But I'm not. I'm also not sexually attracted to lamp posts. But some people are.

I hate that just because I am sure of my own attractions, I must be afraid or in denial. can't I just be who I am?

ALSO - Finding someone attractive is very different to getting sexually involved with them. Seeing a man and thinking him attractive is very different to rolling around in bed naked together.


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## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> What I'm left thinking is...wtf is with men? especially since I know that very few people are 100 percent gay or straight.


I'd like to see a citation about a study or survey done on this. It's something that you keep bringing up, but that I've never heard of anyone else listing as more than a possibility.


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## Meli24R (Dec 9, 2008)

While I find many women beautiful, I've never been sexually attracted them and I can't see myself ever desiring sex with a woman. I do think homosexuality/bisexuality is perfectly natural though(and I'm a big supporter of gay rights) I'm not repulsed by or afraid of it..it's just not my thing.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

kiirby said:


> I guess I'm fairly open. It's kind of hard to judge since the situation's never presented itself, but as objectively as I can see it, I've nothing against it. I guess the only barriers to my bi-curiosity are both the social stigma of homosexual relationships and the predefined stereotype of "that kind of person", the kind of person I wouldn't imagine myself as being.
> 
> I'm not physically attracted to men, and I don't find the prospect of sex with a guy appealing at all, but I think that's more down to it being somewhat of a deep seeded cultural taboo than it being immediately offputting. I mean, when I overthink it, sex with a woman is kind of disgusting too. Before I hit puberty, intimacy with anyone was something horrible to be avoided. It just so happened that that sensation resided with girls and remained with boys.
> 
> ...


Great post.

I also agree with what PapaSmurf wrote about sexuality being fluid rather than fixed.


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## Liana27 (Sep 16, 2011)

Girls are hot


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Just like Louis C.K. admitting that yes, Ewan McGregor is really hot and he thinks he's hot and there's really nothing wrong with that, I wish men weren't so freaked out at the mere idea that they would be attracted to another man.


 Haha, i knew this was coming some time, might as well just post it; he's a personal hero of mine.


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

Charizard said:


> I'd like to see a citation about a study or survey done on this. It's something that you keep bringing up, but that I've never heard of anyone else listing as more than a possibility.


 There is no need for a study to prove that, everyone has had gay thoughts and or fantasies, even if it's just as a teenager or kid.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

MaxSchreck said:


> There is no need for a study to prove that, everyone has had gay thoughts and or fantasies, even if it's just as a teenager or kid.


No they don't. Where exactly have you and the other poster been getting this information about everyone being "a little gay"?

I personally am not freaked out by the male body or consider it unaesthetic or anything. I just don't get a boner looking at it and have absolutely no desire to hump it like I would an aesthetically pleasing female body. And I can't ever remember having "gay thoughts" or fantasies.

I realize that sexual orientation may be a spectrum but it is not impossible for someone to be "completely straight".



kiirby said:


> If you were, theoretically, to blindfold any one of these guys and tell him a hot girl was gonna give
> him a blowjob, only to get a guy to do it instead, would his pleasure be false?


It wouldn't be false, but it wouldn't make him "a little gay" either. You could replace the person giving the blowjob by a sex toy and the man would still be aroused. Would that mean that all humans are "a little bit sexually attracted to plastic (and whatever material they make those fleshlights from)"?

Being gay for a man means being sexually attracted to other men. When there is no such attraction the man is not gay. The sex act may be homosexual, but it won't change his orientation from straight to "a little bit gay".


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm not saying everyone is a little gay, i'm saying everyone except you has had some kind of thought that envolve being attracted to their sex. Even just recognizing that a man can be beautiful and handsome is one. I for one am not interest in any aspect of male sex but i can find a man more beautiful then a women and i have found myself attracted to guys who have rad personalities.. still i can't imagine having sex with them.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

heroin said:


> I realize that sexual orientation may be a spectrum but it is not impossible for someone to be "completely straight".


It's not impossible, in theory, but it's very unlikely. I've gotten in quite a few arguments with men about this and what it comes down to is their insistence that they are not even one tiny bit attracted to any man on the planet, which again, is very unlikely. It's societal conditioning, really, and them freaking out.

It is hard for me to understand, as I am clearly attracted to women and have been for a long time and it doesn't make me uncomfortable in the slightest because it's just so normal to me, like being attracted to men.

One thing that makes me feel bad for straight/gay people is when there's someone whose gender is ambiguous and a straight or gay person finds themselves attracted to that person, and they find out "omg, that person is the WRONG gender for me to be attracted to!" I find it nice that I won't have that problem, ever.

I guess I don't really feel that bad for them, honestly. It's just silly. An attractive person is an attractive person, and I wish people weren't so hung up about it.


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

I put not really open, but I lean toward not at all. I don't want to say I could never like a lady, but I never have. I don't even have lesbian dreams so even subconsciously, I don't think it's there. I'm thankful cause coming out would suck.


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## StayingMotivated (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm bi and so are most other humans whether they like to admit it or not


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

I put not really open, but I lean toward not at all. I don't want to say I could never like a lady, but, eh, it really doesn't strike my fancy. I don't even have lesbian dreams so I even subconsciously, I don't think it's there. I'm thankful cause coming out would suck.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

MaxSchreck said:


> Even just recognizing that a man can be beautiful and handsome is one.


I have a sense of what an attractive man looks like, or a male body or features that are easy on the eye. I have no problem acknowledging beauty in men.

That still doesn't mean I want to have sex with them.

There's a difference between finding someone good looking and actually being attracted to them. I think tigers look beautiful, but I have no desire to sexually engage one.


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## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

MaxSchreck said:


> There is no need for a study to prove that, everyone has had gay thoughts and or fantasies, even if it's just as a teenager or kid.


I haven't. :\

I think it's really unfair for someone to say "well I've thought like this and plenty of other people have thought like this, therefore _everyone_ thinks like this at some point". It's plain old fashioned projecting.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

StayingMotivated said:


> I'm bi and so are most other humans whether they like to admit it or not


But I'm not really sexually attracted to women sooo dunno if that is bi or not :/


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## ttrp (Feb 17, 2011)

Charizard said:


> I haven't. :\
> 
> I think it's really unfair for someone to say "well I've thought like this and plenty of other people have thought like this, therefore _everyone_ thinks like this at some point". It's plain old fashioned projecting.


I agree with you, Charizard.

I'm gay and I've never been attracted to women or thought about them in a sexual way. I know some people are bi. However, some people aren't. If the question asked in this thread were reversed (i.e. how open are gay people to opposite-sex experimentation), I'd say I'm not open at all.

Anyway, some people are _only _attracted to one gender. And that's ok.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

mcmuffinme said:


> I put not really open, but I lean toward not at all. I don't want to say I could never like a lady, but, eh, it really doesn't strike my fancy. I don't even have lesbian dreams so I even subconsciously, I don't think it's there. I'm thankful cause coming out would suck.


Oh, it DOES suck, I can assure you.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I guess I don't really feel that bad for them, honestly. It's just silly. An attractive person is an attractive person, and I wish people weren't so hung up about it.


We're not 'hung up about it'. Just because you find same sex people _sexually_ attractive doesn't make it impossible that others don't. Finding someone attractive and finding someone _sexually _attractive are two very different things. I've met enough gay men who find women 'bits' disgusting to know that they're 100% gay, and never question that they may still like girls sexually, even just a little bit. Sure they find women beautiful, but would never dream of any sexual interaction. Or is that impossible? Should I assume that most gay men still get their little soldiers standing up to attention when they meet a hot girl?

Why can gay people now be confident and honest about their sexuality but hetero people can't? Why must it be questioned and not believed simply because you experience something different? Why do we have to be ashamed, or 'in denial' about who we are? Is it some kind of retribution for past discrimination?


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

ttrp said:


> I agree with you, Charizard.
> 
> I'm gay and I've never been attracted to women or thought about them in a sexual way. I know some people are bi. However, some people aren't. If the question asked in this thread were reversed (i.e. how open are gay people to opposite-sex experimentation), I'd say I'm not open at all.
> 
> Anyway, some people are _only _attracted to one gender. And that's ok.


That's my point. Thankyou.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

StayingMotivated said:


> I'm bi and so are most other humans whether they like to admit it or not


Urgh. You don't need to validate or justify your sexuality by projecting it as a 'norm'.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Why can gay people now be confident and honest about their sexuality but hetero people can't? Why must it be questioned and not believed simply because you experience something different? Why do we have to be ashamed, or 'in denial' about who we are? Is it some kind of retribution for past discrimination?


I don't think most gay people are 100 percent gay, either. It's not just straight people.

To the rest... :roll


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## IllusionOfHappiness (Sep 6, 2007)

afraid2goinpublic said:


> WOW, What a topic!!!
> this is my only answer>>> Leviticus 18:22/20:13 google them,read them and YES I am a Christian! And NO I do NOT think homosexuality is right. God created man in His image and then created Eve from his rib as his mate, He did NOT create another man for him but WOMAN...................
> *Hate me if you will but I have very very strong religious beliefs and will not falter!!!*


Nobody asked you to falter...

I don't hate you at all you can think whatever you want. :stu
The only dislike I have is for excessive punctuation.

In reply to the original post: I'm definitely straight, but I guess somewhat open. Difficult because I've never exactly been in the situation.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm all for same-sex relationships, they just aren't for me. I love girls who love girls. :yes


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I will say that fewer gay men freak out about the possibility of being attracted to a woman than straight men do to the possibility of being attracted to a man.

However, yes, sometimes gay men freak out when they think they might be attracted to a woman, and try to ignore it or explain it away.

Generally, men are uncomfortable with sexual fluidity. *sigh*


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## Lyrical Lonely (Oct 5, 2011)

kenny87 said:


> She is just voicing an opinion based on *religious facts*


I'm sorry but religious what now?

Okay, I'm done. lol.

Anyway yeah, when I was younger I was a little curious, but the thought of me having sex or doing sexual things with another chick is weird to me.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

As an _actual _man, who is very comfortable with what he likes and not, and has absolutely no issues with what other people like, I still disagree.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> As an _actual _man, who is very comfortable with what he likes and not, and has absolutely no issues with what other people like, I still disagree.


What do you mean actual man?


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## ttrp (Feb 17, 2011)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I will say that fewer gay men freak out about the possibility of being attracted to a woman than straight men do to the possibility of being attracted to a man.
> 
> However, yes, sometimes gay men freak out when they think they might be attracted to a woman, and try to ignore it or explain it away.
> 
> Generally, men are uncomfortable with sexual fluidity. *sigh*


I'd never freak out if I were attracted to women. I've had some awesome women in my life, but I've never been attracted to them.

I'm also not uncomfortable with sexual fluidity. My sexuality just isn't that fluid.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

It's just funny how evenly balanced the poll's answers are, but then OMG THE STRAIGHT MEN FREAKED OUT AND NOOO WOULD NEVER EVER WITH A MAN NO NO NO OMG NOOOO. Hence the bizarrely large number for one answer.

lol...


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

ttrp said:


> I'd never freak out if I were attracted to women. I've had some awesome women in my life, but I've never been attracted to them.
> 
> I'm also not uncomfortable with sexual fluidity. My sexuality just isn't that fluid.


Okay. I will say that it is not very likely that you are 100 percent gay. That's just my feeling. Clearly, you disagree, which is fine.

Yes, there is that 1% of the population which is 100 percent gay or straight, but being in it is just not very probable.


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## ttrp (Feb 17, 2011)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> It's just funny how evenly balanced the poll's answers are, but then OMG THE STRAIGHT MEN FREAKED OUT AND NOOO WOULD NEVER EVER WITH A MAN NO NO NO OMG NOOOO. Hence the bizarrely large number for one answer.
> 
> lol...


or maybe male/female sexuality is different?

"Women's sexuality and sexual orientation are potentially fluid, changeable over time, and variable across social contexts. Regardless of sexual orientation, there are important commonalities in women's sexuality. In particular, women tend to have a relational or partner-centered orientation to sexuality."

From Wiley: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/0022-4537.00169/full


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Where does this 1% statistic come from?


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

And I'm still confused by this idea that anyone who simply isn't into that or has no interest in it is 'freaked out'. Who's freaking out by saying that they really truly honestly have zero interest in something?

I don't get 'freaked out' by the idea of making rap music. I just have no desire to ever do so.


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## StarDude (May 29, 2011)

I hear gays bash straight people for hating something they haven't tried, then why the hell don't THEY try being straight for a change. Don't see why they fight so hard for marriage when the divorce rate is so high anyway.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

It's as if some people think that it's impossible for other people to think and feel differently to them.


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## ttrp (Feb 17, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> It's as if some people think that it's impossible for other people to think and feel differently to them.


This is true of many straight people, too. Otherwise, gay rights wouldn't even be an issue.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

ttrp said:


> This is true of many straight people, too. Otherwise, gay rights wouldn't even be an issue.


Without a doubt. And in many other areas of society, even with _anxiety_. It's everywhere, and it's very frustrating.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

A straight man, who is barely, imperceptibly, attracted to men is certainly different from me, a woman who is attracted enough to the same and opposite sex to notice attraction to both.

So in no way am I trying to say he is like me. He is definitely different from me.

It still doesn't make him 100% straight. Almost nobody is. And the 1% comes from the reality that so, so few people are. It's just common sense.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

'It's just common sense?' *That's* your argument? _*That's* _where you get your 1% statistic? I was hoping you would at least point to some kind of interesting study.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Almost nobody is.


You don't _know _this. You can't know this. It's that simple. That's your _perception_. You have a perception of what other people are like, and when they disagree, you tell them that they are wrong. How could they possibly know the truth about themselves, when you know them so much better than they do? It's just common sense that you are more aware of their likes and dislikes than they are.

I don't know if other people are one way or another, and I am not making a call on what other people are or should be like. Only myself.


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> It still doesn't make him 100% straight. Almost nobody is. And the 1% comes from the reality that so, so few people are. It's just common sense.


How is what you said different from this?



Person You Would Probably Not Like said:


> It still doesn't make him bi. Almost nobody is. And the 1% comes from the reality that so, so few people are. It's just common sense.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Not BI per se, but not purely straight. Take from it what you will.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I actually conducted a survey on okcupid about this very subject. I found that with straight women, it was an even split between women who would and wouldn't.

Unfortunately, I happen to be in love with one of the ones who wouldn't. 

I didn't even bother with men, I already knew what the answer would be. Very similar to this finding...

If a man goes up to another man and says "you're hot" he could get the crap beaten out of him. What a world.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> If a man goes up to another man and says "you're hot" he could get the crap beaten out of him. What a world.


_Could_. But not by 99% of men (I made that stat up). Men HAVE walked up to me and said 'you're hot'. I didn't beat the crap out of them. But I wasn't curious in the least either, or attracted in the least, and certainly not scared, or offended. I mean, I AM hot! I was just polite and respectful. Hell, I could get the crap beaten out of me for looking at another man's girlfriend, or for bumping into someone at the train station.

However, I've had a friend go up to a girl and say 'you're cute' and he got slapped pretty hard. In your words... 'What a world'.

My point? Don't generalize. Don't judge. Don't assume. That's what causes prejudice in the first place. Just because people don't want to do something doesn't mean they are automatically 'afraid'. Maybe they're* just not interested*. Such a crazy concept, I know. How could other people not be interested in the same things you are?

Good way to get results, btw. Not to bother because you know the results based purely on preconceived assumptions. Science at its best.

And don't give up on that girl. Only 1% of people are 100% straight, despite your fifty / fifty results, so I reckon you have a shot!


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Not BI per se, but not purely straight. Take from it what you will.


The only thing I take from it is that it's just as ludicrous to claim that people can't feel naturally straight as it is to say they can't feel naturally gay or bi. Don't even get me started on the "it's common sense" thing. Who are we to say what is "natural" or what other people feel? Unless there is some scientific evidence to back up what you are saying, it's asinine to make any claims about it.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> _Could_I mean, I AM hot!


You seriously didn't just say that. How...conceited.



> And don't give up on that girl. Only 1% of people are 100% straight, despite your fifty / fifty results, so I reckon you have a shot!


This is just mean.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Oh, just because those girls said they would never be with another girl doesn't mean they were telling the truth.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> You seriously didn't just say that. How...conceited.
> 
> This is just mean.


1. It was a joke. I have a sense of humor. Not a good one, granted, but I don't like to take _everything _too seriously.

2. Yes. Yes it was. But I was also making a valid point at the same time, so it was a clever use of mean.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Oh, just because those girls said they would never be with another girl doesn't mean they were telling the truth.


Of coarse not. Because it doesn't fit your belief. That makes your whole 'survey' invalid anyway, dismissing any results as possible lies because it doesn't fit the result you want (even though you presented your findings as a kind of fact). So... why mention it?


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

RyanJ said:


> The only thing I take from it is that it's just as ludicrous to claim that people can't feel naturally straight as it is to say they can't feel naturally gay or bi. Don't even get me started on the "it's common sense" thing. Who are we to say what is "natural" or what other people feel? Unless there is some scientific evidence to back up what you are saying, it's asinine to make any claims about it.


Just because a man isn't 100 percent straight doesn't mean his feelings toward men would ever be perceived by him. If he's 98 percent straight and 2 percent gay, he would likely never be aware of any inclination toward men, especially since society is so homophobic and he wouldn't be trying to find that in himself. Even bisexual people who know they like both sexes often settle into a hetero relationship. So it is likely that these straight people who feel nothing toward the same sex are not 100 percent straight. Even if they never know it.

There is some science to support this. The behavior of the closest animals to humans supports it. That's just one example. I also don't think humans are monogamous, but that's another argument to get into another time, maybe.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Of coarse not. Because it doesn't fit your belief. That makes your whole 'survey' invalid anyway, dismissing any results as possible lies because it doesn't fit the result you want (even though you presented your findings as a kind of fact). So... why mention it?


Possible lies. Maybe not lies. Who knows? I never said it was fact. I just suggested that maybe they were lying. And maybe they were. Anyway, 50 percent of women is quite a high number for 90 percent of men to say they never would. I would guess that MORE men are lying.

I mention it because...um...I can?


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Who knows?


Exactly.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Exactly.


But if I had to guess I would say at least a few were lying, because they were afraid of their friends finding their profile, etc.

More men lie.

I will also say I am frustrated from a lot of time dealing with men who can't come to terms with their attraction to men. It's incredibly frustrating. That might affect how I feel right now.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> But if I had to guess I would say at least a few were lying, because they were afraid of their friends finding their profile, etc.
> 
> More men lie.
> 
> I will also say I am frustrated from a lot of time dealing with men who can't come to terms with their attraction to men. It's incredibly frustrating. That might affect how I feel right now.


Possibly. I do get and understand that some men ARE denying their even minor sexual feelings and attraction towards men. Some who sadly react violently. I also agree that it's true that some men do lie about their urges, for various reasons.

But I just really really really *hate *being told (or having it eluded to) that I am in denial or afraid or not really in tune with my sexuality, especially considering my liberal views and my excessive exposure to gay men and their culture. I hate being told or made to feel that I must be in denial because other people have certain opinions about the reality and validity of what I do and do not find sexually attractive and appealing.

Hence my venom.


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Just because a man isn't 100 percent straight doesn't mean his feelings toward men would ever be perceived by him. If he's 98 percent straight and 2 percent gay, he would likely never be aware of any inclination toward men, especially since society is so homophobic and he wouldn't be trying to find that in himself. Even bisexual people who know they like both sexes often settle into a hetero relationship. So it is likely that these straight people who feel nothing toward the same sex are not 100 percent straight. Even if they never know it.
> 
> There is some science to support this. The behavior of the closest animals to humans supports it. That's just one example. I also don't think humans are monogamous, but that's another argument to get into another time, maybe.


I think its a nonsensical argument at some point. I'm not sure that assigning a percentage of sexual orientation is either possible or even describes reality for that matter. I am also not comfortable telling people that they are something they don't feel like they are. I think it's wiser to just take people at their word and go by the general assumption that you are oriented towards what you desire (whatever that may be).


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

au Lait said:


> That's not very Christian of you. What happened to love thy neighbor? Or do you only choose to follow the Bible when you can use it to "support" your distaste for people who are different from you?


What an awesome post.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Oh and sorry for the mean thing. I don't mean to be a jerk, it just happens naturally.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

I think religious opinion should be kept to yourself and debated with like minded people, not forced upon others. 

I am some what open, it is something I would never do one on one, but with a partner maybe.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

I think a religious objection is a perfectly valid reason for wanting to avoid same sex experimentation, regardless of what other people think about the justification.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

It is a belief and a very valid reason not to be attracted to the same sex. But it is one persons own belief and should stay ones own. Religion is a belief, it is not a truth.

I love a good religion debate, with open minded people. But it is very rare to find someone which is open minded to not one but a range of religions.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

matty said:


> It is a belief and a very valid reason not to be attracted to the same sex. But it is one persons own belief and should stay ones own.


Absolutely. If someone mentions in here that religious belief is the reason they will not experiment, it should be respected. But that person should not preach that others should follow the doctrine, nor should anyone tell them they are wrong for believing what they do. It's simply the factual reason why one would vote no to sexual experimentation with the same gender and needs to be respected.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

RyanJ said:


> I think its a nonsensical argument at some point. I'm not sure that assigning a percentage of sexual orientation is either possible or even describes reality for that matter. I am also not comfortable telling people that they are something they don't feel like they are. I think it's wiser to just take people at their word and go by the general assumption that you are oriented towards what you desire (whatever that may be).


Okay, and that's fine for you. I feel differently, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Btw, the number isn't an actual percentage. Let's just say I was saying 2% in place of a nonspecific and impossible to define amount. The point is, a very very small and unnoticeable attraction.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> Absolutely. If someone mentions in here that religious belief is the reason they will not experiment, it should be respected. But that person should not preach that others should follow the doctrine, nor should anyone tell them they are wrong for believing what they do. It's simply the factual reason why one would vote no to sexual experimentation with the same gender and needs to be respected.


Well said.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I admit I have been very depressed about my feelings for a straight girl, but that is not why I believe what I do.


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Okay, and that's fine for you. I feel differently, and there's nothing wrong with that.
> 
> Btw, the number isn't an actual percentage. Let's just say I was saying 2% in place of a nonspecific and impossible to define amount. The point is, a very very small and unnoticeable attraction.


Good enough.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Awwww, love. Now let's have an orgy.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I also notice women are more comfortable with "There was this one time ..." or "There was this one girl..."

It's almost like men have this door in their minds that just slams shut when it comes to that.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I also notice women are more comfortable with "There was this one time ..." or "There was this one girl..."
> 
> It's almost like men have this door in their minds that just slams shut when it comes to that.


What if there wasn't 'that one time'.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I also notice women are more comfortable with "There was this one time ..." or "There was this one girl..."
> 
> It's almost like men have this door in their minds that just slams shut when it comes to that.


They won't admit to it cause they will be judged for it. Just like women won't admit to having a whole bunch of one-night stands with random men. Now that I think about it, seems like current American society looks down on those who sleep with men unless you are a woman in a committed relationship. But sleeping with women is okay/cool, no matter if you are a woman/man, relationship or not.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> What if there wasn't 'that one time'.


I just notice what an interesting coincidence it seems to be that men are judged more and men never seem to have that one time, women judged less and there was that one time, for some.

I am actually surprised by how many self-identified straight women admit to, if not actually having done anything, entertaining thoughts, or having a crush once or twice.

Am I really supposed to think men are just SO different? I don't believe it, sorry.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

komorikun said:


> They won't admit to it cause they will be judged for it. Just like women won't admit to having a whole bunch of one-night stands with random men. Now that I think about it, seems like current American society looks down on those who sleep with men unless you are a woman in a committed relationship. But sleeping with women is okay/cool, no matter if you are a woman/man, relationship or not.


I'm just sick of the sexual judgment/hypocrisy. It's frustrating, and it is part of why I am 27 and have never kissed anyone.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I just notice what an interesting coincidence it seems to be that men are judged more and men never seem to have that one time, women judged less and there was that one time, for some.
> 
> I am actually surprised by how many self-identified straight women admit to, if not actually having done anything, entertaining thoughts, or having a crush once or twice.
> 
> Am I really supposed to think men are just SO different? I don't believe it, sorry.


But, what if there really wasn't that one time. As I think is the case with most people. It's like how many times have you been in a car crash, or dropped your ice-cream. People have, but not everyone. Not believing people is is like those movies where they drill the innocent person for information they really don't know, but the guy drilling him doesn't believe him and insists he tells him where the nuclear weapon is, even he doesn't know.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I'm just sick of the sexual judgment/hypocrisy.


So stop judging.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> But, what if there really wasn't that one time. As I think is the case with most people. It's like how many times have you been in a car crash, or dropped your ice-cream. People have, but not everyone. Not believing people is is like those movies where they drill the innocent person for information they really don't know, but the guy drilling him doesn't believe him and insists he tells him where the nuclear weapon is, even he doesn't know.


You feel the way you do, I feel the way I do, and it's not going to change, so this is becoming pointless.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> You feel the way you do, I feel the way I do, and it's not going to change, so this is becoming pointless.


Yes, but you are judging me, as a man, who does not like men. When at no point have I made any judgement on you, as a woman, who likes women. I feel I need to defend my point of view when it keeps getting attacked with statements I believe are false or misguided.


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## Marvalo (Apr 20, 2010)

Personally I'm not open at all, however I strongly encourage girl-on-girl experimentation.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Selbbin said:


> Yes, but you are judging me, as a man, who does not like men. When at no point have I made any judgement on you, as a woman, who likes women. I feel I need to defend my point of view when it keeps getting attacked with statements I believe are false or misguided.


Your point of view is understandable, and very common, but I personally disagree with it.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

Marvalo said:


> Personally I'm not open at all, however I strongly encourage girl-on-girl experimentation.


Well, I highly encourage guy on guy experimentation. 

But I'm guessing you don't want to hear about that...


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## Marvalo (Apr 20, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Well, I highly encourage guy on guy experimentation.
> 
> But I'm guessing you don't want to hear about that...


It's just a little too gay... also I've never kissed a girl and I always hoped my first kiss would be with a lady!


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## equiiaddict (Jun 27, 2006)

No thanks. I'm 100% straight and looking at a woman does nothing for me.


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## F1X3R (Jul 20, 2009)

> It still doesn't make him 100% straight. Almost nobody is. And the 1% comes from the reality that so, so few people are. It's just common sense.


So THAT is what the Occupy movement is about!


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## Wolves In Suits (Jul 19, 2011)

I said 'not very open', as I could perhaps muster up the physical ability if I was in some crushingly bereft prison-scenario, but I would have to get over my revulsion of the female sex organs. They'd have to look something like Gina Gershon in the film 'Bound', too - no girly girls, it'd feel too weird.

I'm a full supporter of gay rights for both sexes and will happily contemplate the thought of two MEN going at it all day long, but I just think womens' genitalia is off-putting and not very nice-looking (no offense to anyone).


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

So you find a part of your own body off-putting? :con


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## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

Elizabeth419 said:


> Girls tend to be much more bisexual than men. I read a study once, i can't remember the name of it for the life of me, where they monitered seperated men and women watching porn. Women responded to all types, straight, gay men and women, you name it. And men only responded to straight porn unless they identified as homosexual. This is why I question my sexual orientation sometimes, I can't exactly tell if I'm bi or if there's some kind of bisexual percentage that a woman can be.


This is me. ^^ I'm mostly into guys but I find some women very attractive and have been turned on by them. I definitely respond to all types of sex.


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## StayingMotivated (Sep 5, 2011)

meganmila said:


> But I'm not really sexually attracted to women sooo dunno if that is bi or not :/


if you're not sexually attracted to women you are not bi. Doesn't matter if you experimented or not.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

a female friend of mine told me that all/most women to a certain extent have an attraction to other women, even if they don't actually ever "act" on it

is this true?


and from looking at the poll in this thread it seems she was somewhat right


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## Double Indemnity (Aug 15, 2011)

Knowbody said:


> a female friend of mine told me that all/most women to a certain extent have an attraction to other women, even if they don't actually ever "act" on it
> 
> is this true?
> 
> and from looking at the poll in this thread it seems she was somewhat right


I'm not attracted to women in a sexual way though I do find certain women very attractive and sexy. I voted that I was somewhat open because the key word for me in this poll is experimentation. Fooling around with a woman is not high on my list of sexual wants, but I'm at the very least open to it.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I also notice women are more comfortable with "There was this one time ..." or "There was this one girl..."
> 
> It's almost like men have this door in their minds that just slams shut when it comes to that.


You seem extremely troubled by this. In this entire thread you've implied or clearly stated that men were lying. As if we don't know what uss'ns want, and need open minded you to sort it all out for us. A public service, that's what you're doing :yes Irony, meet double standard.

And to note, you may have a point, but that's not the issue. Men arguing that women may not always say exactly what they mean has some merit, too, but holders of that opinion are treated like outcasts. Funny how the guys fall into your, "no I'm 100% mammalian" trap, rather than simply suggesting you not tell them what to think.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

62 men saying "never" is totally unreasonable and you and I both know that.


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

Not open at all. I have zero attraction for men. Even if it were true that I would like it if I tried it, I don't see any reason to try it. Why create another desire to be persecuted by?



kiirby said:


> The main thing that hit home for me was the fact that I met my girlfriend in a chat room. I fell in love with her because of the things she said. Yeah, I'd seen a few pictures of her, but they weren't particularly clear, and that's besides the point. Had it turned out, by some bizarre twist, that she was in fact a guy pretending to be a girl, then I would have been undeniably in love with a man. Of course I would have been holy jesus freaked out but it wouldn't have removed from that.
> 
> Which is why I have a hard time believing that every guy that claims they're oh so confidently 100% straight actually are, and that said certainty is anything more than a product of heterosexuality being drilled into their heads from infancy. Of course I only have my own experience as evidence to go on, but it's all I've got. If you were, theoretically, to blindfold any one of these guys and tell him a hot girl was gonna give
> him a blowjob, only to get a guy to do it instead, would his pleasure be false? How far does the excuse of gay sex being "disgusting" remove from the fact that it is all entirely a product of his environment, an imaginary barrier built up in his head. I'm not trying to suggest that every straight guy should be bi-sexual, just that openness to the fact that it might be possible is far more than outright rejection of the mere thought. I know it's a weird thing to say, I'm sure that some of you now think I'm gay. But regardless, this thread is asking for my opinion on sexual preference. And this is it.


I have to disagree. If I were in love with an internet girl and she turned out to be a guy, that wouldn't mean that I'm in love with a guy. It would mean that I'm in love with a girl who doesn't exist. Having those kinds of feelings for someone really does depend on whether it's a guy or a girl.

I naturally feel a sense of affection (for lack of a better word) for girls that I don't feel for guys, no matter how close we are. All the other aspects of our relationship would fall into the context of that natural affection, leading to what you can call a heterosexual attraction. I cannot develop attraction for guys because I don't have that natural affection to start from. I can be close friends with a guy and be glad to be around him, but it's nothing like what I would feel for a girl in the same situation. So if this internet girl turned out to be a guy, I would not be attracted to the guy. I would be attracted to my mental representation of that person which has at its core the fact that she's a female together with that natural affection.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

I remember my former online friend telling me that if you blindfolded a straight man and said a hot girl was going to give him a blowjob, and then it was a guy, that would be rape.

So if you tricked a straight man into thinking a girl gave him a blowjob and it was really a dude, even if he enjoyed it, it would be rape because he was misled.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

I think all people are open to sexual deviation from their status norm. That said, I don't think this poll is entirely accurate.

I just hope I don't fall in love at a family reunion. It would suck to extinguish nature to avoid incest. Same thing with beastiality.

Okay, I'm traversing tangents that shouldn't be stepped over. Bye.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

You're comparing sex with someone of the same sex to having sex with a relative or a non-human animal?

What is wrong with you?


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## MetalRacer (Oct 11, 2011)

Sorry, but I am NOT open. I am already comfortable with my sexuality as is.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> You're comparing sex with someone of the same sex to having sex with a relative or a non-human animal?
> 
> What is wrong with you?


I was ****ing joking. :yes


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## GodlessVegan (Oct 21, 2011)

LOL If you're "very open" then you might want to consider the fact that you are actually gay


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

GodlessVegan said:


> LOL If you're "very open" then you might want to consider the fact that you are actually gay


Or bi.


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> I remember my former online friend telling me that if you blindfolded a straight man and said a hot girl was going to give him a blowjob, and then it was a guy, that would be rape.
> 
> So if you tricked a straight man into thinking a girl gave him a blowjob and it was really a dude, even if he enjoyed it, it would be rape because he was misled.


...wait, are you referring to me here? My mistake if not.



GodlessVegan said:


> LOL If you're "very open" then you might want to consider the fact that you are actually gay


It's precisely this method of thinking which leads many people into entirely closing their mind sexually. Prepared to accept that blindly conforming to what other people say is the socially acceptable method of thinking might not be the best course of action? GAY.


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## scamp (May 26, 2010)

I wonder if I am open to experimentation since I have been attracted to women before, though not as strongly or as often as I am to men. I can definitely appreciate the beauty of a woman...and it might be kinda neat to kiss one.


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

kiirby said:


> ...wait, are you referring to me here? My mistake if not.


Erm..no. I'm pretty sure we've never talked. He didn't post on this forum at all, I met him on another forum entirely.

I can't say I agree that it's rape just because he was told it was a woman and it was actually a man. It's a gray area, but to call it rape because it was a man instead of a woman isn't exactly correct.


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

loquaciousintrovert said:


> Erm..no. I'm pretty sure we've never talked. He didn't post on this forum at all, I met him on another forum entirely.
> 
> I can't say I agree that it's rape just because he was told it was a woman and it was actually a man. It's a gray area, but to call it rape because it was a man instead of a woman isn't exactly correct.


Yeah I was kind of confused, just that I mentioned that same theoretical situation earlier on and thought you were referring to it. So yeah, nevermind.

And in regards to your comment, I'd agree. It's far too complicated an issue to go around debating the intricacies of whether it'd be consensual or not. It's relevant only in terms of its theoretical consequences..


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## loquaciousintrovert (May 23, 2011)

It is strange to me though that a man would be blindfolded and experience a great deal of pleasure and would suddenly be horrified that it was a man giving him pleasure. I mean, seriously? Come on.

Maybe I shouldn't say this but men who give blowjobs are often very good at it. It makes sense...they know what to do because they have the same parts. Speaking for myself, I find the idea of a man giving a blowjob much more appealing than a woman giving one.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

*This thread has become too graphic.*


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