# I got better with self help CBT but hit a snag...



## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

Read on if you want to know a solution that has been helping my SAD. I also have a question.

I have a mild version of SAD and is able to get better with self help CBT. By using CBT, I found out that I feel anxious in public because I have a core belief that it is always my fault if somebody doesn't like or approve of me. Because I feel that it is my fault, I try so hard not to offend people that I become anxious.

I counter this belief by listing all the positive and negative qualities about me. To my surprise, I have many good qualities and only a couple of negative qualities. Doing this help relieved about 70% of my anxiety when in public. When somebody acts indifferent/negative towards me I don't get depress because realized that it is not always my fault and that I am a nice respectable guy. Currently this belief is still superficial. I need to drive it into my brain.

Am I cured? No. I have another problem. I don't feel good about my appearance. I created a profile on plentyoffish.com and have sent out about 20 personalized emails to people but got no responses. This hits me pretty hard, and it rekindles the belief that it's my fault that people don't like me. I feel that because I'm ugly, people don't want to socialize with me. What depresses me is that I can't change my appearance and that people will forever have an aversion to me. The hopelessness fact is the thing that depresses.
*
How can I overcome this hopelessness that depresses me?*

Here is my plentyoffish profile
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member7239508.htm
The thing with SAD is that your view of the world is so twisted that you don't know what to believe. Personally I think I'm average in looks but I'm starting not to believe it because I'm getting a lot of rejections from plentyoffish.com.


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## kelso (Apr 23, 2008)

Holy smokes mate you have more guts then I have (or had for that matter)
I looked at the profile and you came across pretty good to my way of thinking. Full credit to you that you are trying to "get out there".
May I ask why do you think your are ugly?
Quite frankly looks are nothing.
I know this is difficult to believe in the modern world but who you are counts much, much more.


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## Debi (Dec 2, 2007)

Hey you don't look unattractive at all, I don't think you have to worry about that. There could be lots of reasons why those people didn't reply, you shouldn't let that one sample of people on that occastion crush your confidence.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

You might like to try buying a copy of "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" by 
David Burns. It is much more centred on depression and self esteem than the purely SA titles.

Another book that will help a lot is 'Reinventing your Life' by Klosko and Young. Perhaps check out the 'Defectiveness' and 'Subjugation' lifetraps.

In addition, you are actually trying one of the HARDEST routes for dating. On the internet everyone is reduced to a little sales package. There is no opportunity to take advantage of all the liuttle ways that humans interact and bond with each other. If you are doing your behavioural experiments (you DO DO THEM right? CBT without the behavioural part is kind of pointless) then start to gear these to going out more. Begin interacting with women in any way you can to build confidence. Start easy with checkout girls / waitresses etc. Starbucks is an awesome place to just get used to talking to friendly women. Do this for a month or so to get used to it, to let it take root in your mind. Then start to push yourself a little more. Start to go out to bars and so on. Just have the focus as being friendly and talking - dont worry about getting numbers or anything. Get used to the environment, to talking with women. Find out what creates a 'buzz' and what doesnt.

If yo have extreme fears around rejection, its worth looking at your relationship with your mother. If she was distant, or highly critical or shaming, or if you were more of a parent TO HER than she was to you, you are likely to have issues with women. Fears of abandonment, criticism or the feeling that they are weak and controlling may be part of your problems. The 'Reinventing' book will help with that.

Do not ficus on your looks. Try your best to look YOUR BEST. Keep your hair neat and nicely styled. Invest in some nice clothes that fir your personality, but are 'one step up' from what you would normally choose. Maybe get a bit of a tan. Keep facial hair neat (I havent looked at your pro by the way). Then once thats done, just focus on MEETING women and talking to them. They are humans. Take them off any pedestals you might have them on. They burp. They fart. They get paranoid. They can be wrong, They can be jusgemental. They do ALL THE SAME SUCKY STUFF that guys do - so dont make them your ultimate judges of worth.

You may also like to read "manhood" by Steve Biddulph.

Good luck

Ross


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

kelso said:


> Holy smokes mate you have more guts then I have (or had for that matter)
> I looked at the profile and you came across pretty good to my way of thinking. Full credit to you that you are trying to "get out there".
> May I ask why do you think your are ugly?
> Quite frankly looks are nothing.
> I know this is difficult to believe in the modern world but who you are counts much, much more.


Here is why I think i'm ugly. Because I have SAD, my way of thinking about things may seem strange and I'm sure it is.

Anyway, I really like people. I want to get to know them and be their friend but from my perspective people don't want to get to know me. When somebody is indifferent towards me, two things pop into my head: they don't like me because of my appearance and/or because I'm weird. I ruled out the latter reason by analyzing my qualities and I'm 70% convinced that I'm not weird. Therefore people don't like me must be because of my appearance.

I surf at the beach on the weekends and have tried to get to know people but they are indifferent towards me. I have been surfing for 1.5 years but haven't made any friends there and I am nice and respectful to people at the beach. This fact further reinforce the belief that people don't like me because of my appearance.

Because I can't change my appearance (ie face), I feel hopeless and this depresses me. It's the hopelessness that depresses me.

I don't want to get plastic surgery though.

To sum it up. I have a belief that people don't like me because of my appearance since I'm not a weird and disrespectful guy.


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> You might like to try buying a copy of "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" by
> David Burns. It is much more centred on depression and self esteem than the purely SA titles.
> 
> Another book that will help a lot is 'Reinventing your Life' by Klosko and Young. Perhaps check out the 'Defectiveness' and 'Subjugation' lifetraps.
> ...


Thank you for the advice. I'm going to order the books that you recommended!


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## smalltowngirl (Feb 17, 2006)

I looked at your profile. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way you look. You are very attractive! :yes 

At the end of your profile you wrote, "Contact me if you are an entrepreneur!" That really narrows down the type of person you're looking for. Maybe some of the people you messaged didn't feel that they met this requirement, and therefore didn't message you back. :stu Of course if you really are only interested in dating other entrepreneurs than it's a good idea to keep that in.


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## kelso (Apr 23, 2008)

I am glad to see you are ordering those books as they sound pretty good to me.
Would be interesting to hear what you think of them so keep in touch.


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## griff (Apr 18, 2008)

I've also had a look at your profile - you look fine to me - relaxed and approachable in the pic.
One point tho - the comment about 'upskirt photos' - not sure if this is a cultural misunderstanding (I'm a Brit) but any girl seeing that (IMHO) might find it creepy.


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

griff said:


> I've also had a look at your profile - you look fine to me - relaxed and approachable in the pic.
> One point tho - the comment about 'upskirt photos' - not sure if this is a cultural misunderstanding (I'm a Brit) but any girl seeing that (IMHO) might find it creepy.


I recommend "cognitive behaviour thearpy for dummies" book. I used some of the techniques and got better. Before this book I was used plentyoffish.com on and off about 4 times. I would create a profile, get rejected and stop using it because I couldn't take it. It took only about 2-3 rejections before I clam up and stop trying.

After CBT, I have been on POF for about 3 weeks now and still going. Rejections doesn't hurt as much. I'm not having much luck with the girls but I can handle rejections a lot better than before. I also understand even though I'm getting tons of rejection from girls on POF, I still must try. CBT teaches me that thinking nobody likes me is a very rigid way of thinking. This belief is not engraved in my head yet but it is getting there.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi David

Are you using planned, moitored behavioural experiments in irder to truly nail the belief in?

CBT without experiments is just CT and you are basically crippling yourself without them. By far the best book for CBT for SA is Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness by Gillian Butler. 

CBT for dummies does not go into anything like the detail on the refined approach of CBT for SA that the Butler book does. Seriously, IMO there is no other book if you want THE MOST UP TO DATE and effective form of CBT for SA. 

There is an exact way of doing behavioural experiments, and this book lays them out. If you are just kinda going otu and thinking "oh I think Ill do some exposure" and just talking to randoms, WITHOUT having mentally set the experiment up correctly at first, then your efforts become hit and miss.

I really wish I could express just how strongly I mean this.

Ross


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

Yes I should do more behavioral therapy and find more techniques that can help me nail healthy beliefs. I will definitely get the book you recommended.

I didn't realize behavior therapy is so strictly structured.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh yes indeedy - and it must follow and feed into the cognitive bit  Spread the word around plz! VEEERY important 

I am still writing up an article on it. Its a bit big, but should be done soon.

Ross


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

cool. Let me know when u are done.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

I admit I haven't read the whole thread but are you the guy with the surf board? You are attactive! Definitely.


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## griff (Apr 18, 2008)

So David, did you reconsider the profile you put on that dating site - and that what you said in it might be putting girls off rather than your appearance?


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

griff said:


> So David, did you reconsider the profile you put on that dating site - and that what you said in it might be putting girls off rather than your appearance?


Yes I have. I have tried putting different things in my profile but got the same result. I just changed my profile to add humor to it so you might not be talking about the same profile as the other people in this thread.

I'm convinced that it is my looks. I don't consider myself ugly ugly but maybe just below average. I superficially accept this fact about my looks. To make thing tougher, it is so easy for guys to send messages to girls on the dating site. Girls get tons of email per day.


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## RubyLynn (Jan 21, 2008)

david90 said:


> Personally I think I'm average in looks but I'm starting not to believe it because I'm getting a lot of rejections from plentyoffish.com.


You are good looking, definitely not below average! I think it is just hard to connect with someone through an online personal. You can't really get a feel for someone's personality or sense of humor in three or four paragraphs. Maybe some of the women are not attracted to you and others don't click with what you wrote, but, like you said, it's not your fault if somebody doesn't like or approve of you. Maybe you just need to simplify your profile. Your joking might be misconstrued as arrogance. Say what you're really looking for and relax, it will probably take time to find a good match.


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## griff (Apr 18, 2008)

You are good looking (honest!) - it's just a matter of time before you get a girl. The trick is not to give up.

All the best
Griff


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

I think you look good on the profile, but actually I have trouble seeing your face clearly from the photo. Buildwise you look good in the surfing photo.
I'm thinking it is a different factor. Can you tell how much interest other people are getting on the site? If other men are getting more interest, can you adapt some of the things they are saying to you?


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

Looking at the wording, I might be put off by the following bits (but that's just my opinion.....)
a) sweeping joke, just doesn't work for me, maybe cut out about half of it?
b) Brittany comment, sounds like you would be discussing oggling women with your girlfriend which would put a lot of women off
c) Stinking rich conjures up images of someone who is rich and arrogant and not that sensitive


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

shy_chick said:


> Looking at the wording, I might be put off by the following bits (but that's just my opinion.....)
> a) sweeping joke, just doesn't work for me, maybe cut out about half of it?
> b) Brittany comment, sounds like you would be discussing oggling women with your girlfriend which would put a lot of women off
> c) Stinking rich conjures up images of someone who is rich and arrogant and not that sensitive


I will take your opinions and try it out.


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

I should say, I hope I'm not being too harsh, I'm trying to help, not destroy your confidence. I was being very picky, there is nothing wrong overall, it was just my humble opinion.


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## david90 (Mar 21, 2004)

david90 said:


> griff said:
> 
> 
> > I've also had a look at your profile - you look fine to me - relaxed and approachable in the pic.
> ...


I ordered and received the book u recommended, "Overcomming social and Shyness." I haven't read the whole book yet but so far it seems very solid and comprehensive. Thank you for the recommendation. I thought CBT for dummies is good but this is a lot better!

How has this book helped you?


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