# Meditation



## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Have you tried meditation? What kind was it? How long / frequently did you do it? Did you notice any benefits?
I recently started doing concentration meditation, 20 minutes at a time. The teacher whose class I attended, appeared so relaxed while meditating while for me it is a struggle to keep focused. It is very difficult. I have already seen benefits though in just a few weeks. This could be better than any medication I have tried. What's your experience been like?


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## Jenikyula gone mad (Nov 9, 2009)

Hmm I just do breathing meditation. I noticed that if I do it regularly and in conjunction with exercise, my anxiety pretty much disappears. Meditation is a very powerful tool.


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

I've been doing meditation regularly for about 6 years, have done a dozen or so week-long meditation retreats, and spent 7 weeks in a Zen monastery in Japan. Meditation has opened my mind and shown me that all my problems are caused by a belief in a self that's separate from the rest of the world. It is indeed a very powerful tool! But many people who try it don't get the full benefit because they do it incorrectly or don't do it intensely enough or for long enough. Many people do it just to get relaxed, but it's not just a tool for relaxing and feeling better about yourself, it's a tool for cutting through the false ideas that are the source of all suffering, mental and physical.


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## Barbapapa (Mar 5, 2010)

Slogger,

I'm very interested in meditation but I'm having a lot of difficulties with racing thoughts and problem staying still :sigh Can you provide some advice for a beginner in meditation? Some website? Please :|


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Slogger said:


> I've been doing meditation regularly for about 6 years, have done a dozen or so week-long meditation retreats, and spent 7 weeks in a Zen monastery in Japan. Meditation has opened my mind and shown me that all my problems are caused by a belief in a self that's separate from the rest of the world. It is indeed a very powerful tool! But many people who try it don't get the full benefit because they do it incorrectly or don't do it intensely enough or for long enough. Many people do it just to get relaxed, but it's not just a tool for relaxing and feeling better about yourself, it's a tool for cutting through the false ideas that are the source of all suffering, mental and physical.


How do you know if you are doing the meditation intensely enough? Also, how long do you think it should be done?


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## ratbag (Aug 2, 2009)

I've been meditating daily for about 6 months. It's definitely helped me, especially with depression. I haven't meditated at all for the past few weeks though. I just find it difficult to do lately. Mindfulness outside of meditation is also helpful.


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

Barbapapa said:


> Slogger,
> 
> I'm very interested in meditation but I'm having a lot of difficulties with racing thoughts and problem staying still :sigh Can you provide some advice for a beginner in meditation? Some website? Please :|


First, you must fully accept that those racing thoughts are a problem so you'll be motivated to let them go.

Thoughts themselves are not bad, but not knowing how and why to let them go causes problems. What you're trying to do with meditation is connect to the one thought that's true for everyone, and that thought does not come just from your brain --it is everything. That one thought is here and now, new and fresh each moment. It's not centralized anywhere; it's not just one of those impulses from that hunk of meat in your skull.

Second, it's helpful to have something to focus on to help you ignore your racing thoughts. Your breath is a convenient focal point, since it's always there. An effective way to harmonize your little mind with your little body (first step to harmonizing with the big Mind/Body) is to focus on your abdomen just below your navel while counting your breaths from 1 to 10. Breath out long and completely, pushing your abdomen in at the end to get all the air out; then relax to inhale. (This is opposite from how people usually breath, which is by sucking in the air, then relaxing to exhale.)

This technique may feel unnatural at first, and you may get out of breath because your body is tense and resists the inflow of air. But you really don't need to suck air in. The pressure of the atmosphere is enough to push enough air into your lungs to sustain you during meditation, but it takes some practice to start feeling this.

Use this focus on the breath to begin letting those layers of thought fall away. Don't think about your thoughts, don't think they are good or bad or try to chase them off, just keep returning your focus to counting breaths, and let those thoughts fall away on their own.

If you practice this method consistently, the issue of physical stillness will resolve itself. Body follows mind, still mind = still body. Your desire to wiggle around reflects your distance from the stillness of the big Mind. Just ignore those impulses, keep focusing on counting your breaths, and you'll naturally return to stillness.

Same goes for physical discomfort and sleepiness: they are manifestations of clinging to thought, and can be let go. This is harder of course, and you can't just do it immediately without going through the preceeding stages first. Even if you've done it before, you still must go through the stages if you've been backsliding (I have a lot of experience with this :roll). It's like climbing a mountain.

Another suggestion if you're not already doing so is to meditate with your eyes open. You're not trying to block out an "outside" world. There is no outside world.

Also, try to continue focusing on your breath throughout the day. It's better than clinging to all those stale, useless thoughts! Don't worry, appropriate thoughts will come to you when necessary. Just keep your mind free and open and enjoy the ride.

I don't know of any good websites on meditation, but certainly there are many.

Frankly though, if you just practice meditation correctly, the results will guide you.


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

alte said:


> How do you know if you are doing the meditation intensely enough?


If you're wondering, you're not doing it intensely enough!



alte said:


> Also, how long do you think it should be done?


It depends on how consistently you maintain your practice throughout the day, every day.

From my experience, and from what I've heard from other laypeople who do retreats then return to their usual lives and let their practice fade, it typically takes 2 to 4 days of meditating 7 to 10 hours a day. Not all at once, but in blocks, like a couple hours in the morning, a couple in the afternoon, and a few in the evening. This is to start getting results beyond just relaxation, results that start opening things up and showing you the true essence of meditation and of many other things.

You can get such results more quickly if you maintain your practice constantly, but that's difficult for most people. The allure of the ego is quite strong, and it takes awhile to start seeing how it's the source of all suffering and to really start wanting to be free from it. It's like breaking any other addiction.


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## Barbapapa (Mar 5, 2010)

Thank you very much. You got me motivated to start right away, thank you! :kiss


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

LaRibbon said:


> I'm going to try this...like right now.


cool .. let us know how it works for you though I think you typically need time before you see a difference. 
I like meditation better than medications mainly because it has no side effects. Otherwise, I have benzos to be the most effective anxiety meds but because of drowsiness I avoid them. They may be suitable for someone who doesn't mind the drowsiness.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Slogger said:


> If you're wondering, you're not doing it intensely enough!
> 
> It depends on how consistently you maintain your practice throughout the day, every day.
> 
> ...


Do you find that you have to meditate 7 to 10 hours everyday to maintain any benefits? What do you think of meditating only 20 minutes twice a day? I have no more time than this :/


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

alte said:


> Do you find that you have to meditate 7 to 10 hours everyday to maintain any benefits? What do you think of meditating only 20 minutes twice a day? I have no more time than this :/


Yes and no. The benefits remain as long as you can keep it going during daily activities. But as I mentioned, that's difficult to do because of the allure of the ego-habit, which can push you around in very subtle ways.

When you start to realize some benefits from meditation, a common problem is that you get many insights and you start dwelling on them, even looking for them. You might think that's ok since insights can be quite pleasant, useful, even entertaining.

But clinging to a pleasant thought is clinging nonetheless, and when you cling to _any_ thought you disconnect from the universal thought that is the ever-changing reality of the present moment. This gradually erodes your open state of mind, and pretty soon all your "bad" thoughts and habits creep back in, since their seeds remain in the aggregation of thoughts you call your body.

What you must do is "see" how to stop clinging entirely. It's like having control over an addiction such as drinking. When you have control, you can drink when it's appropriate, but you no longer crave it an inappropriate times.

If all you have is 20 minutes twice a day, use it wisely and also try to keep it going all day. It's entirely possible to realize the essence of meditation during your normal activities.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Slogger said:


> If all you have is 20 minutes twice a day, use it wisely and also try to keep it going all day. It's entirely possible to realize the essence of meditation during your normal activities.


Okay, thanks for your post. It would perfect if I could easily enter a calm, meditative state in situations that are stressful. I guess this comes with years of practice? 
It is impressive you have been meditating for 6 years.


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## Event Horizon (Feb 23, 2011)

Tried the T.M routine but does not work for me because I'm very ADD :/. I was reading about vipassana type meditation and have recently come across a 10 day vipassana meditation retreat. I'm thinking of going once school ends :S


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

alte said:


> It would perfect if I could easily enter a calm, meditative state in situations that are stressful. I guess this comes with years of practice?


It's not a state to use only in situations you judge to be stressful, it's a continuous process of freeing yourself from the extraneous thoughts that separate you from reality. You'll never be able to control conditions because in reality there is no "you" to control them. As long as you continue to react to conditions, judging them as good or bad based on the opinions of the small self, you'll be vulnerable to suffering because you're going against the larger reality.

It doesn't necessarily take years of practice to get a taste of the larger state of mind. With the correct effort, you can realize it in a matter of days or even hours. The key is "correct effort".

A meditation retreat can give you a jump-start. It's really helpful to make a concentrated effort, like for a week or so, under the guidance of a good teacher. The correct path is straightforward, but finding it can be a bit tricky. A good teacher can help you cut through some of the tangled vines of thought that obscure the path.


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## SMOOZIE (May 26, 2011)

I don't know if this is still called meditation, but I go to a "half-sleep-state". I relax so much that my difficulties don't bother me anymore. From this state I am able to actually wisely reflect on them and experience realizations.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

alte said:


> Have you tried meditation? What kind was it? How long / frequently did you do it? Did you notice any benefits?
> I recently started doing concentration meditation, 20 minutes at a time. The teacher whose class I attended, appeared so relaxed while meditating while for me it is a struggle to keep focused. It is very difficult. I have already seen benefits though in just a few weeks. This could be better than any medication I have tried. What's your experience been like?


I really dig the benefits of meditation as have had times in my life when it's been really profound for me and extremely grounding..but I find it hard to get into the mindset and routine of doing it regularly. I just recently converted my loft into a meditation room and have started doing it again.. still struggling to keep disciplined to find time, but whenever I do I find it amazingly relaxing and it helps me deal with stressful situations.

I just do a very simple breathing meditation and spend about 20 minutes. I will sit comfortable on a cushion with a candle and just breathe in and out slowly counting the breathes until I get so relaxed I can just focus on emptiness, then a profound sense of calmness and tranquility comes over me.

I think you're right, it's every bit as good as a tab of Valium and definitely does alter the chemicals in the brain.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

I finally got around to meditating for a little over 4 hours. I felt very calm and focused immediately afterwards but the next morning, I was back to my scatter brained, stressed out self. What can I do differently? So far seems like medtation is a lot of effort for little, short term gain :/


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## centrino (Sep 27, 2010)

Slogger said:


> First, you must fully accept that those racing thoughts are a problem so you'll be motivated to let them go.
> 
> Second, it's helpful to have something to focus on to help you ignore your racing thoughts. Your breath is a convenient focal point, since it's always there. An effective way to harmonize your little mind with your little body (first step to harmonizing with the big Mind/Body) is to focus on your abdomen just below your navel while counting your breaths from 1 to 10. Breath out long and completely, pushing your abdomen in at the end to get all the air out; then relax to inhale. (This is opposite from how people usually breath, which is by sucking in the air, then relaxing to exhale.)


Hey Slogger!

Does chanting mantras help instead of counting breaths? What would you say works better?

Regards.


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## Reykjavik (Oct 15, 2011)

Definitely look into Buddhist practices. That's what I've been trying. They're masters of the present and for someone with anticipatory anxiety, it's a great help.


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## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

alte said:


> I finally got around to meditating for a little over 4 hours. I felt very calm and focused immediately afterwards but the next morning, I was back to my scatter brained, stressed out self. What can I do differently? So far seems like medtation is a lot of effort for little, short term gain :/


I remember your thread in the 'Goals' sub forum and I didn't want to say it before because I didn't want you to get discouraged but you seem to want a quick fix solution.

Meditate for however long you can each day (try for 20 mins) for at least 8 weeks and assess the results.

Watch this video is you have the time





but the video basically say this
http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/mindfulness-meditation-changes-brain-just-8-weeks


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

cedward said:


> Does chanting mantras help instead of counting breaths? What would you say works better?


I haven't tried chanting mantras, but from what I've read and heard it works pretty much the same way. But you still have to keep it up single-mindedly for rather long periods of time. That doesn't work so well when you're around other people, like at a monastery or at home or work.


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

alte said:


> I finally got around to meditating for a little over 4 hours. I felt very calm and focused immediately afterwards but the next morning, I was back to my scatter brained, stressed out self. What can I do differently? So far seems like medtation is a lot of effort for little, short term gain :/





ForeverStallone said:


> I remember your thread in the 'Goals' sub forum and I didn't want to say it before because I didn't want you to get discouraged but you seem to want a quick fix solution.


ForeverStallone is right, it's definitely not a quick fix. Really, you have to keep it up _all_ the time, keep letting go of unnecessary thoughts all the time. Keep your mind clear all the time so appropriate thoughts that relate to the moment can come in, and they will if you have room for them.

Clinging to thoughts is addictive, and if you indulge in it when you're not meditating, you'll never break the habit. It's like trying to quit smoking by not smoking only in church!

Sleep tends to erode the meditative state of mind, especially if your mind is really out of control and you have a lot of dreams. That's part of the reason why sleep is minimized during meditation retreats. When you really get into the groove and your mind gets really clear, you can function surprisingly well with much less sleep. Dragging a lot of extra thoughts around is a major cause of fatigue.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

ok, I will try to be more consistent and less impatient. Is it really necessary to do more than 20 or maybe 40 minutes of meditation each day to get maximum benefit? In other words, more time meditating = more benefit? 

It would be difficult to consistently put in several hours meditating every single day.


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## Slogger (Dec 14, 2010)

alte said:


> ok, I will try to be more consistent and less impatient. Is it really necessary to do more than 20 or maybe 40 minutes of meditation each day to get maximum benefit? In other words, more time meditating = more benefit?
> 
> It would be difficult to consistently put in several hours meditating every single day.


Correct effort is just as important as the amount of time you spend. You can meditate 10 hours a day, but if you're doing it wrong you won't get the correct result.

Really, "maximum benefit" requires a change in your understanding of yourself, and it requires a continuous effort. Without this, you'll probably get bored with meditation because you won't see its deeper purpose and potential.

Twenty minutes once or twice a day can help. Do try to keep it up all the time, keep trying to let go of those unnecessary thoughts.


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