# girls learn to stay away from nice guy at an eraly age



## penguin (Feb 6, 2005)

Yikes.

Makes you think that some people should not even have children. 

Scary stuff.


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## rb27 (Jul 17, 2005)

penguin said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Makes you think that some people should not even have children.
> 
> Scary stuff.


What?


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## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

Gumaro said:


> not sure whether to place this in the fun or relationship forum but since i see a lot of topics about how girls arent into nice guys, i figured i would post it here
> 
> a coworker of mine has a ten year old daughter. she said she had a crush on this red headed boy who (to my coworker) was cute. this boy would get good grades and is well behaved. her daughters friend then told her she shouldnt like him because he is a nice boy. so now, she has a crush on a boy who is a trouble maker (who my coworker doesnt find cute), the kiddie version of a bad boy.
> 
> yes, they are being groomed at an early age to stay away from nice guys :lol


As much as people probably hate to admit it I think it's a biological thing. A bad boy/ tough guy is going to subconsciously be perceived as a protector that is going to stand up for his lady. A nice guy is going to be perceived subconsciously as a push over with no backbone. This in turn causes a thought processes that says "a nice guy can't be a provider".


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Sometimes I don't really get this bad boy protector attraction theory. The bad boys area always getting the crap beat out of them or stabbed or shot, often by a good guy. I'm serious. All I know is the toughest guy in my HS was a good guy and none of the bad boys would ever mess with him because they knew they'd get the crap beat out of them. And even in the movies the good guy always beats the crap out of the bad guy.


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

I think good guys are just overly shy. Bad guys aren't; they always have the center stage.


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## AdamCanada (Dec 6, 2003)

sprinter said:


> Sometimes I don't really get this bad boy protector attraction theory. The bad boys area always getting the crap beat out of them or stabbed or shot, often by a good guy. I'm serious. All I know is the toughest guy in my HS was a good guy and none of the bad boys would ever mess with him because they knew they'd get the crap beat out of them. And even in the movies the good guy always beats the crap out of the bad guy.


That guy(i know the type your talking about) is still considerd a 'bad boy' though. hes probably very confident.

i also don't think its nice guys women hate, its the ones who act nice to try and get women. they usually arn't really nice and are very jealous and needy behind there nice guy mask.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

rb27 said:


> penguin said:
> 
> 
> > Yikes.
> ...


Penguin was referring to Gumaro's statement. This is where I wonder about the co-worker. Is she married? Maybe the girl is following the mother's example. There's something missing if the daughter is attracted to the future out-of-control teen. :stu


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

AdamCanada said:


> sprinter said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes I don't really get this bad boy protector attraction theory. The bad boys area always getting the crap beat out of them or stabbed or shot, often by a good guy. I'm serious. All I know is the toughest guy in my HS was a good guy and none of the bad boys would ever mess with him because they knew they'd get the crap beat out of them. And even in the movies the good guy always beats the crap out of the bad guy.
> ...


Girls like the bad boys because they're exiting, at least that's what they often say so I don't know why not to take their word for it. Bad boys are always getting into trouble, breaking the rules etc. They are the male equivalent of the drama queen in the sense that there's always something going one. Good/nice guys are boring. I don't think being strong and muscular and confident is how women define a bad boy. :stu


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

sprinter said:


> I don't think being strong and muscular and confident is how women define a bad boy. :stu


Confident = yes, strong and muscular, no.

Personally i'm always amazed every time i observe bad boys, it seems their self confidence knows no bounds. I had a couple of friends that were like that in high school and being around them was like being around some sort of wild beast, i half expected their parents to show up and tie them on a leash on their way home...


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

> Bad boys are always getting into trouble, breaking the rules etc. They are the male equivalent of the drama queen in the sense that there's always something going one. Good/nice guys are boring.


That probably has a lot to do with it as well. From what I can hear, girls like a lot of useless drama.


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## SupportiveGF (Apr 25, 2006)

alot of girls love the emotional rollercoaster....the fights and the making up. The recognition of being "that guy that did that one thing i couldn't believe". 

And i think it's a damn shame. I followed the same path as most women and I picked the wrong guy.... and if I had to do it all over again...I'd go with the nice guy, hands down. 

Life can still be good and exciting without drama.


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## Lifetimer (May 16, 2004)

I think a lot of great points have been made here as to why women don't go for us nice guys, but instead go for the bad boys. Below I have listed several points made by various members here.

*1. point made my Scairy:* Women go for bad boys because they perceive them as a protector that will stand up for her. On the other hand women perceive nice guys as wimps... someone who is perceived subconsciously as a push over with no backbone.
*
2. point made by Micronian:* Good guys can be overly shy. Bad guys aren't; they always have the center stage. This makes them more exicting to women.

*3. point made by AdamCanada and Lyric Suite:* Bad boys are very confident. Women are attracted to this. As Lyric Suite stated, "It seems their self confidence knows no bounds." I totally agree with this statement, because I have personally seen the bad boys/tough guys (even bad boys that were butt-ugly) display this type of confidence and get the girl.

*4. point made by Sprinter:* Girls like the bad boys because they're exciting. Good/nice guys are boring. Yes, sad but true - as far as what girls perceive about bad boys and nice guys.

All these terrific points are some of the reasons women like the bad boy/tough guy and why they avoid the nice guy. Yes, there have been several women here say they like the "nice guy". However, I believe that has more to do with the fact that the women here have SA, and because they have SA then it's natural they would want a nice, quite guy- someone is similar to who they (the women) are and also won't intimidate them. But in general, girls without SA generally don't initially want the nice, non-aggressive, sensitive, quiet guy.

The good news is that I do believe -as SupportiveGF has alluded to - that eventually a lot of those women who chose the bad boy will eventually get tired of the "bad boy act" and want someone who is more stable. But until then us nice, quite, sensitive guys will just have to stand and watch the bad boys have all the fun.

Lifetimer


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## BMSMA1A2B3 (Apr 7, 2006)

Lifetimer said:


> The good news is that I do believe -as SupportiveGF has alluded to - that eventually a lot of those women who chose the bad boy will eventually get tired of the "bad boy act" and want someone who is more stable. But until then us nice, quite, sensitive guys will just have to stand and watch the bad boys have all the fun.


Oh, puh-lease. It's the "nice, quite, sensitive guys" who have bodies in the backyard. :evil


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

How lucky we are to have so many experts on the female mind!


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## penguin (Feb 6, 2005)

millenniumman75 said:


> rb27 said:
> 
> 
> > penguin said:
> ...


Thanks millenniumman75 - I just did not understand why a mother would warn her daughter to stay away from nice guys. That's totally crazy. Unless she was being "tongue in cheek" - in which case she has a somewhat weird sense of humour regarding that; or, unless she actually believed it, in which case she has a whole bunch of issues of her own.

Parents are supposed to set their kids a good example; to show them the right and wrong of things and of course, a million other things.

If this woman is raising her daughter to think bad men are good, well, in my opinion, she has no right to have a child in the first place.

Sorry if it wasn't clear.


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## penguin (Feb 6, 2005)

archaic said:


> How lucky we are to have so many experts on the female mind!


 :lol

It's really depressing to me to think that so many blokes think so many women want bad guys. Trying to make the point in the other direction is just an exercise in futility because most posters here are convinced they are right. :con :stu

Something else: it seems that a lot of these bad boys are perceived to be confident. Looking at it, it isn't confidence that they exude, it's aggression. And, aggression and assertiveness are *not* the same thing. A person (male or female) can be assertive without being aggressive, and this - among many other things - is what constitutes confidence.


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## Lifetimer (May 16, 2004)

archaic said:


> How lucky we are to have so many experts on the female mind!


archaic and penguin, you both know deep down that the points I listed in my previous post are true. Just like anything in life there are no absolutes and, therefore, it is not true in EVERY case. But more times than not it is true. The girls here with SA may not much feel that way about those points I listed, but I think the majority of the non-SA girls do.

Hey, if I was a girl I would probably initially want the strong, confident, exciting guy and I would probably avoid the wimpy, boring, quiet guy. It's understandable. It's certainly not fair that the nice guy loses out to the bad guy, but I can understand how it happens.

Lifetimer


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

I think most of the points brought up are a whole lotta bull and none of you are in any position to make broad, sweeping statements on all women (or really any women! Where are you getting these impressions from?). Also, I don't understand why you set up such a dichotomy between "nice" and "bad" guys. There are plenty of quiet/shy guys who are jerks and just as many confident men who aren't. Honestly, I think this post reeks of jealousy. 

I've noticed that a lot of the guys here explain away their social shortcomings by putting down other groups. Stop looking for excuses or people to blame.



I'll probably get **** for saying this, but whatever.


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## BMSMA1A2B3 (Apr 7, 2006)

archaic said:


> There are plenty of quiet/shy guys who are jerks and just as many confident men who aren't.


Yup. (Feel free to guess which I am. :b)



archaic said:


> I've noticed that a lot of the guys here explain away their social shortcomings by putting down other groups.


Yep.



archaic said:


> Stop looking for excuses or people to blame.


It's easier to blame and attack than to take responsibility.



archaic said:


> I'll probably get @#%$ for saying this, but whatever.


Yeah, you probably will. It sucks, I know.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I think a lot of women like bad boys for reasons already pointed out. I draw it from my own personal experience. Do I think all women feel this way? No. It is a generalization? Yes. 

I don't know why people get so offended about that, it is not like people are saying this is true for all women. 

And...I'm not a nice guy, but I'm not a complete dick either. What is the big deal? :shrugs:


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## Whimsy (Mar 16, 2006)

archaic said:


> I think most of the points brought up are a whole lotta bull and none of you are in any position to make broad, sweeping statements on all women (or really any women! Where are you getting these impressions from?). Also, I don't understand why you set up such a dichotomy between "nice" and "bad" guys. There are plenty of quiet/shy guys who are jerks and just as many confident men who aren't. Honestly, I think this post reeks of jealousy.
> 
> I've noticed that a lot of the guys here explain away their social shortcomings by putting down other groups. Stop looking for excuses or people to blame.
> 
> I'll probably get @#%$ for saying this, but whatever.


 :agree This is the impression I get for a ton of threads! and its so true...stop the f*cking madness...stop blaming others! I know some pretty confident guys and they are not jerks, trying to get into my pants with some hidden agenda. And not all shy guys are sweetness and nice. Some are just plain creepy. Losers come in all dymensions shy or not...Pisses me off. You know what thats why some of you will ***** and moan for all eternity about not having a girlfriend. :mum Stop over analyzing.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I don't blame bad boys or stupid girls for anytime I can't get women. But when I see something that I believe to be true in some situations, I am not going to ignore it either. 

That is just silly. I say good for the bad boys, more power to them. If anything wouldn't they give people hope? 

I'm going to call an ace an ace.


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## penguin (Feb 6, 2005)

Lifetimer said:


> archaic said:
> 
> 
> > How lucky we are to have so many experts on the female mind!
> ...


Firstly Lifetimer, I don't believe that the poster archaic highlighted *you* out in particular in this thread when she commented on knowers of the female mind, anymore than I did?

But, since you flagged yourself up, I will say the following:

I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through your initial post (or indeed, your subsequent one) and illustrate how wildly out and inaccurate you happen to be on your musings. Just as an example:

>>"However, I believe that has more to do with the fact that the women here have SA, and because they have SA then it's natural they would want a nice, quite guy- someone is similar to who they (the women) are and also won't intimidate them.>>>

it seems to me that you don't know much (if anything) about the women who post on the SA board (or women in general?) and I think it is wrong to make such sweeping generalisations in the manner that you have.

Secondly, whilst some people here might find it helpful, I don't require someone to summarise various thread points for me in the way that you have done, moreso when you are only highlighting what you yourself believe to be the case anyway? Perhaps you needed to repeat those lines for yourself, in order to be able to understand what the various posters had contributed, but, I am perfectly capable of processing and summarising information without the repitition.



Lifetimer said:


> ...The girls here with SA may not much feel that way about those points I listed, but I think the majority of the non-SA girls do....


Yet again, you assume too much and quite inaccurately I might add.

Furthermore:



archaic said:


> "I think most of the points brought up are a whole lotta bull and none of you are in any position to make broad, sweeping statements on all women (or really any women! Where are you getting these impressions from?). Also, I don't understand why you set up such a dichotomy between "nice" and "bad" guys. There are plenty of quiet/shy guys who are jerks and just as many confident men who aren't....
> 
> ...I've noticed that a lot of the guys here explain away their social shortcomings by putting down other groups. Stop looking for excuses or people to blame..."


 :agree

Like I said above: it's just depressing.


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## rb27 (Jul 17, 2005)

penguin said:


> millenniumman75 said:
> 
> 
> > rb27 said:
> ...


If I read the post correctly, her mother didn't tell her daughter to go with the "bad one," the daughter's friend did.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

shwin said:


> The way i see it... there is a wide range of people. No one person is alike.


Likewise, we are also all the same.


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Gumaro said:


> there was a thread posted about two years ago asking who likes bad boys or why do women prefer bad boys. there were quiet a few number of girls from this board that said they prefer bad boys.


Exactly. I can't speak for any of the other guys who posted but I'm just going by what I've heard or read from women, that they find the bad boys exciting. Just look at how many women prefer the Sawyer character on Lost versus the Jack character. I don't see any point in denying this phenomena exists and is common. Guys are just trying to understand it.


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

BMSMA1A2B3 said:


> Oh, puh-lease. It's the "nice, quite, sensitive guys" who have bodies in the backyard. :evil


Well I can't speak for others but I'm not so stupid as to bury them in my backyard.:cig


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## Your Lover Scrub Ducky (Jul 26, 2004)

Lyric Suite said:


> shwin said:
> 
> 
> > The way i see it... there is a wide range of people. No one person is alike.
> ...


and counter likewise, some people are the same while others are not.

ooo...trippy huh?


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

Scrub Ducky said:


> and counter likewise, some people are the same while others are not.


Perhaps, but do you think anybody can afford to act out on the eventuality they may or may not find that one special, one of kind girl who is attracted to introverted losers?

I know for a fact i can't gamble my life on that. If the basic set up of female attraction lies in a certain amount of values, then i have to do my best to elevate myself to those values if i wish to succeed, and the first step towards that direction is to actually understand and learn what those values might be.

I can't simply hold out for the chance of finding a girl tailored to my personality, that's like telling me to hold on getting a job i'm not qualified for and simply wait to win the lottery. Wouldn't it be easier to just die rather then starve to death?

I think most people do not have a clear idea of how romance work, they just let their bodies and their instincts do everything for them just as they construct a thick web of false ideologies as a way to screen their conscious minds from the true workings of their unconscious inner selves.

The truth is that nature does all the work, everything else is just meaningless fluff.

For those of us who do not posses the natural means to achieve romantic unity, the stuff society tries to pass down as truth just sounds like the hollow, patronizing **** it really is.

"Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it". What an enlightening principle, and pray tell, what if you have the meat and know how to use it too? Does that mean that size actually _does_ matter?

The truth is, what difference does it make that not all girls like bad boys when most do?


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Lyric Suite said:


> [quote="Scrub Ducky":34ff4]
> and counter likewise, some people are the same while others are not.


Perhaps, but do you think anybody can afford to act out on the eventuality they may or may not find that one special, one of kind girl who is attracted to introverted losers?

I know for a fact i can't gamble my life on that. If the basic set up of female attraction lies in a certain amount of values, then i have to do my best to elevate myself to those values if i wish to succeed, and the first step towards that direction is to actually understand and learn what those values might be.

I can't simply hold out for the chance of finding a girl tailored to my personality, that's like telling me to hold on getting a job i'm not qualified for and simply wait to win the lottery. Wouldn't it be easier to just die rather then starve to death?

I think most people do not have a clear idea of how romance work, they just let their bodies and their instincts do everything for them just as they construct a thick web of false ideologies as a way to screen their conscious minds from the true workings of their unconscious inner selves.

The truth is that nature does all the work, everything else is just meaningless fluff.

For those of us who do not posses the natural means to achieve romantic unity, the stuff society tries to pass down as truth just sounds like the hollow, patronizing @#%$ it really is.

"Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it". What an enlightening principle, and pray tell, what if you have the meat and know how to use it too? Does that mean that size actually _does_ matter?

The truth is, what difference does it make that not all girls like bad boys when most do?[/quote:34ff4]
I think that's one of the greatest posts I've ever seen in my three years on this board. Bravo :cig

I especially like this one:



> The truth is that nature does all the work, everything else is just meaningless fluff.


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## Urkidding (Oct 12, 2005)

Offhand, my guess would be that the daughter's friend has lived in a dysfunctional environment. Maybe she witnessed domestic violence, abuse, or just a major tough guy attitude. At any rate, that's a strange statement coming from a young kid.


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## Lifetimer (May 16, 2004)

Lyric Suite said:


> [quote="Scrub Ducky":ac4d5]
> and counter likewise, some people are the same while others are not.


Perhaps, but do you think anybody can afford to act out on the eventuality they may or may not find that one special, one of kind girl who is attracted to introverted losers?

I know for a fact i can't gamble my life on that. If the basic set up of female attraction lies in a certain amount of values, then i have to do my best to elevate myself to those values if i wish to succeed, and the first step towards that direction is to actually understand and learn what those values might be.

I can't simply hold out for the chance of finding a girl tailored to my personality, that's like telling me to hold on getting a job i'm not qualified for and simply wait to win the lottery. Wouldn't it be easier to just die rather then starve to death?

I think most people do not have a clear idea of how romance work, they just let their bodies and their instincts do everything for them just as they construct a thick web of false ideologies as a way to screen their conscious minds from the true workings of their unconscious inner selves.

The truth is that nature does all the work, everything else is just meaningless fluff.

For those of us who do not posses the natural means to achieve romantic unity, the stuff society tries to pass down as truth just sounds like the hollow, patronizing @#%$ it really is.

"Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it". What an enlightening principle, and pray tell, what if you have the meat and know how to use it too? Does that mean that size actually _does_ matter?

The truth is, what difference does it make that not all girls like bad boys when most do?[/quote:ac4d5]

:agree

Great post Lyric Suite! Now that is telling it like it is.

Lifetimer


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

I've played the 'jerk' (fine-tuned anyway) role a few times and it has worked for me. If you take it too far, however, it can blow up in your face.

Being a nice guy will 9 times out of 10 relegate you to the status of friend. I know a lot of women here don't want to hear that, but then you don't know what it is like to be a male.


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## Bon (Dec 24, 2005)

orpheus said:


> I've played the 'jerk' (fine-tuned anyway) role a few times and it has worked for me. If you take it too far, however, it can blow up in your face.
> 
> Being a nice guy will 9 times out of 10 relegate you to the status of friend. I know a lot of women here don't want to hear that, but then you don't know what it is like to be a male.


You've "Played" the roll, oh, don't flatter yourself!!! :cig

I don't know of one women, that wants a "Bad boy" I don't know of one that wants a wishy washy one either. For me, personally, I need someone that knows when to let me have my own way, but is strong enough to stand up to me when deemed.

How come I never read, men don't want nice girls only *****es (I would be soooooo popular!) I think it's all perception. What I may think is a "Bad" boy this person may show another side to their personalities to someone else, and they become the good person.


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## Urkidding (Oct 12, 2005)

CovertBanana said:


> > Perhaps, but do you think anybody can afford to act out on the eventuality they may or may not find that one special, one of kind girl who is attracted to introverted losers?
> 
> 
> And that is where there is a big problem. If you see yourself as an introverted loser, instead of an actual person who has something to offer to another person, it's obvious you're going to have an extreme difficulty finding a romantic partner.
> ...


That's how I see it, too. :yes


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## myss_anthrope (May 3, 2006)

I would say the biggest problem for 'nice guys' is that women look at them as friends, big brother figures, that kind of thing, not boyfriends. They're awesome to have around, and they're great protectors, they'll fight for you to the death if they have to... but they're the type of guy very often that wants to get to know a girl first, before going too far with her. Maybe women are too used to men trying to get into our pants, if a guy doesn't immediately try we delegate them to 'friend' status.

I was into the bad boy thing for a while, but I grew out of it pretty fast. I ended up falling in love with my best friend, a nice guy, and we're engaged now. But he's told me how before he met me, whenever he'd be interested in a girl he knew, he'd tell them and they'd say 'oh, but I think of you like a brother!' or 'I'm really only interested in you as a friend...'. He told me it got really frusterating, heh.


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

realspark said:


> orpheus said:
> 
> 
> > I've played the 'jerk' (fine-tuned anyway) role a few times and it has worked for me. If you take it too far, however, it can blow up in your face.
> ...


Of course many of them won't admit it or they'll call it by another name, but 'bad boys' are generally sought after more so than the wussy guys because they offer a challenge the latter doesn't. now bad boy doesn't mean abusive, but it does mean being negligent, careless, autonomous, and sometimes ruthlessly mouthy when standing up to the girl.

i remember i was at a bar with some people and the bartender was as cocky as hell. two of the girls that were with our group were saying cocky is a turn-off. nevertheless, they were both flirting and fawning over him by the end of the night... say one thing and do another. w00p


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

realspark said:


> You've "Played" the roll, oh, don't flatter yourself!!! :cig .


when you've had a pretty terrible track-record like mine the only save face is self-flattery. :banana

back in the day when i thought i had a wide selection (in my dreams) i turned down two girls who i thought were pretty but just not my type. so i ignored them, was somewhat rude (out of annoyance), and needless to say they chased me. i couldn't figure out why until i realized my jerkness probably played a part of it.

when i'm a nice, considerate guy girls give me THAT look (you know what i'm talking about. the sister look).


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## Bon (Dec 24, 2005)

orpheus said:


> realspark said:
> 
> 
> > You've "Played" the roll, oh, don't flatter yourself!!! :cig .
> ...


As Ala is my witness, I have no clue to what a sister look is, honeslty! Could you take a picture with that look on your face and send it to me via email I don't think I would post it;-).

I think there is a difference between being a jerk and wanting what we can't have. From experience I know some men like the "chase" I don't see why it would be different for a women?

I've been thinking about this, I do see there are some women that are attractive to scum, I mean jerks, aside from the phychological ramifications, couldn't this just be their type?


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## orpheus (Nov 16, 2003)

realspark said:


> As Ala is my witness, I have no clue to what a sister look is, honeslty! Could you take a picture with that look on your face and send it to me via email I don't think I would post it;-).


It has the look of "I only see you as a brother," which is devastating to the ego.



realspark said:


> I think there is a difference between being a jerk and wanting what we can't have. From experience I know some men like the "chase" I don't see why it would be different for a women?


i don't know.. i really don't like chases myself. but as a guy, i know a lot of women love to chase the jerks.



realspark said:


> I've been thinking about this, I do see there are some women that are attractive to scum, I mean jerks, aside from the phychological ramifications, couldn't this just be their type?


i don't know. women often times want what they can't have. or they want to prove to themselves that they can reform a jerk or are intrigued by the apparent lack of interest a jerk shows.

i'm essentially speaking from my experience as a person who has tried the nice guy route with no success.

i think jerk is pretty relative of a term though. someone told me "there's more than a fine line beween being a jerk and being an ahole."

it's an art, i suppose.


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## Lifetimer (May 16, 2004)

penguin said:


> whilst some people here might find it helpful, I don't require someone to summarise various thread points for me in the way that you have done, moreso when you are only highlighting what you yourself believe to be the case anyway? Perhaps you needed to repeat those lines for yourself, in order to be able to understand what the various posters had contributed, but, I am perfectly capable of processing and summarising information without the repitition.


I summarized the various thread points so as to make it clear for the case I was making. All those points were excellent points that various members here have made. By summarizing, it brought it all together. I was also showing there were others here who share an opinion similar to mine -- and I was giving credit where credit was due.

Lifetimer


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## tewstroke (Feb 18, 2006)

Maybe most girls don't like bad boys, but like the original poster said have been taught to like them, not directly told but they heard it from someone else and figured "i guess that's the norm then". Most of our beliefs are unspoken, the ways that we live out our lives at least are mostly controlled by societal undertones, if that makes any sense. Finally, I think these genaralizations need to go.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> Why not? I doubt that your personality is so rare or unusual that there's simply no match out there. Nobody is saying one has to be stubbornly rigid as to their habits or a little bending of how one may act when alone is useless, but I don't understand why a drastic change in personality would need to be done. Nobody's expecting to have a relationship w/ a perfect clone.
> 
> ```
> When one is trapped in one's room, we cannot afford the luxury of holding out for "the special someone". We have to maximize our attraction in any way possible.
> ```


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## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

ColdFury said:


> > Why not? I doubt that your personality is so rare or unusual that there's simply no match out there. Nobody is saying one has to be stubbornly rigid as to their habits or a little bending of how one may act when alone is useless, but I don't understand why a drastic change in personality would need to be done. Nobody's expecting to have a relationship w/ a perfect clone.
> >
> > ```
> > When one is trapped in one's room, we cannot afford the luxury of holding out for "the special someone". We have to maximize our attraction in any way possible.
> > ```


I guess you could be yourself, but it might take longer to find someone. I always heard to maximize your chances of getting a date, you have to act a certain way. My dad tells me I won't have guys attracted to me until I start to put on make-up, fix my hair, and act like the popular girls. When I think about that I feel sick, but it is probably true. I have to wear a costume to be liked. Reminds me of a Pink song that goes, "all you have to change is everything you are."


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

realspark said:


> How come I never read, men don't want nice girls only *****es (I would be soooooo popular!) I think it's all perception.


Because men don't want *****es they want good looking whores. duh. :b


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## Lifetimer (May 16, 2004)

orpheus said:


> Being a nice guy will 9 times out of 10 relegate you to the status of friend. I know a lot of women here don't want to hear that, but then you don't know what it is like to be a male.


Preach it Brother Orpheus! :nw


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## tewstroke (Feb 18, 2006)

whiteclouds said:


> ColdFury said:
> 
> 
> > > When I think about that I feel sick, but it is probably true. I have to wear a costume to be liked. Reminds me of a Pink song that goes, "all you have to change is everything you are."


Ugh, I know. The sad thing is that I am attracted to some of those girls, but then again I'm attracted to most women. :lol


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## Mike^D (Feb 26, 2004)

Nevermind. Waste of time.


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## Longie (Jul 14, 2004)

Whimsy said:


> :agree This is the impression I get for a ton of threads! and its so true...stop the f*cking madness...stop blaming others! I know some pretty confident guys and they are not jerks, trying to get into my pants with some hidden agenda. And not all shy guys are sweetness and nice. Some are just plain creepy. Losers come in all dymensions shy or not...Pisses me off. You know what thats why some of you will @#%$ and moan for all eternity about not having a girlfriend. :mum Stop over analyzing.


So what is it that pisses you off so much? The fact that some guys are not confident (because of SA or some other condition they might have devleoped through no fault of their own), or because they are simply losers and not worth knowing? Please tell us which, because we might be able to do something about the first one, but not the second. I don't understsand your hostility to people who are obviously so far beneath your notice.

How can we *not* over-analyse when SA and the havoc it causes with relationships are such a big problem in our lives? :stu


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## Mike^D (Feb 26, 2004)

Whimsy said:


> :agree This is the impression I get for a ton of threads! and its so true...stop the f*cking madness...stop blaming others! I know some pretty confident guys and they are not jerks, trying to get into my pants with some hidden agenda. And not all shy guys are sweetness and nice. Some are just plain creepy. Losers come in all dymensions shy or not...Pisses me off. You know what thats why some of you will @#%$ and moan for all eternity about not having a girlfriend. :mum Stop over analyzing.


That made no sense. If you know so much why dont you explain exactly what they are doing wrong. Or are you going to be like penguin and say "I have no desire to explain why but you are wrong and a loser!"


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## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

I'd like to see what a "nice guy" really is. All I've ever seen are:

1. Guys who claim to be nice, but have chips on their shoulders because they can't get the hot chicks that every other straight guy around them are competing for

2. Guys who were treated like crap by some girl in the past, and now go around pretending to be nice, but turning around and treating HER like garbage, just because he had it done to him by another one

3. Guys who secretly hate women, but play the nice guy schtick so they can get laid

Yeah, where' s the *truly *nice guys in the world?


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

The truly nice guys stay away from women who are cynical.


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## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> The truly nice guys stay away from women who are cynical.


The ones who say they are the truly nice guys are usually the ones that I mentioned. They're also the ones that create the cynical girls. :cig

A really nice guy never has to say that he is a nice guy. He knows it, and he shows it.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

So are you saying no truly nice guys ever say they are nice guys? Not sure about that, but I am not a nice guy so who knows what they think.


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## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> So are you saying no truly nice guys ever say they are nice guys? Not sure about that, but I am not a nice guy so who knows what they think.


Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. Someone who is truly nice doesn't go around talking about what a nice person they are. Anymore than a person who is charitable goes around talking about how many charities they donated money to.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.


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## Mike^D (Feb 26, 2004)

Lack of love is the problem.


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Humm...this is interesting discussion. On one hand, I thought that girls wouldn't want a 'dangerous' guy around them, that could be a threat to their own personal safety, or would have a tendency to act up, or put them in social ackward situations. It also seems to be a legal risk criminally too if you are engaging in risky behaviours - suppose you grope someone for example as a 'bad boy', isn't that a risk of being charged? Is that what a bad boy does anyway right?


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## C3P0 (Apr 10, 2006)

Ok, ok, I understand this concept a bit better, it means taking some heavy social risks without caring too much about the outcome as opposed to having a good-time taking those risks in the first place. 

The examples of on the last post were probably a bit extreme, but some bad boys get away with that. I dont mind taking social risks, but I think one can have a good-time, going up to an attractive girl they dont know, and starting to rap her or talk with her. Although, I cant personally bring myself to do it due to SA issues, hence, I dont think I can be a bad boy in that sence of the term.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

Maseur Shado said:


> [quote="Prodigal_Son":4656d]The truly nice guys stay away from women who are cynical.


The ones who say they are the truly nice guys are usually the ones that I mentioned. They're also the ones that create the cynical girls. :cig

A really nice guy never has to say that he is a nice guy. He knows it, and he shows it.[/quote:4656d]

No no no, nice guys are the ones you've been ignoring all your life.

That's why girls are cynical about men, bad boys is all they ever date.

BTW, did i mention bad boys do a wonderful job in conning girls thinking they are actually nice guys?


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

I wish girls weren't so stupid! Dang! It's such a shame that we're all cynical bimbos. :fall


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Lyric Suite said:


> [quote="Maseur Shado":016ac][quote="Prodigal_Son":016ac]The truly nice guys stay away from women who are cynical.


The ones who say they are the truly nice guys are usually the ones that I mentioned. They're also the ones that create the cynical girls. :cig

A really nice guy never has to say that he is a nice guy. He knows it, and he shows it.[/quote:016ac]

No no no, nice guys are the ones you've been ignoring all your life. 
[/quote:016ac]
It is funny how girls complain there are no nice guys. All they have to do is look for the guys they're not attracted to or usually ignore. Then they'll find them all.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I think its a lot of bull to be honest. If a guy is truly nice, he may say he is nice, he may not say anything. Just because a guy says he is nice does not mean he is trying to play you for a fool. That is just a way to prevent yourself from being hurt.


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## Longie (Jul 14, 2004)

Maseur Shado said:


> I'd like to see what a "nice guy" really is. All I've ever seen are:
> 
> 1. Guys who claim to be nice, but have chips on their shoulders because they can't get the hot chicks that every other straight guy around them are competing for
> 
> ...


I don't even *accept* the term 'nice guy'. Never mind mind guys with chips on their shoulders, what is it that you hate about us so much? You're accusing us of what you yourself are doing right here...surely this is because of past experience with guys? If that's the case, how are you any different to your accusation in point no. 2?


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## vincentgallo4president (May 13, 2006)

Basically, these comics sum it up, I mean, women like men.

http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sen ... veguy2.gif

http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp02142004.shtml

http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

^ Pretty much goes under the notion that every sensitive or nice guy not getting action is just being "fake nice" in an attempt to get laid or get the hot girls. 

I think it made one good point though, "ASK OUT THE DAMN GIRL"


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## VelvetElvis (Apr 29, 2006)

vincentgallo4president said:


> Basically, these comics sum it up, I mean, women like men.
> 
> http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sen ... veguy2.gif
> 
> ...


All well and good, but what folks don't seem to realize is that "nice guy-ness" is often caused by involuntary anxiety. I suspect most people with anxiety CAN'T really do anything about it, so bashing them for being unfortunate enough to have their brain wired a certain way isn't really helpful, now is it? Granted, we could all do with a little less whining about it, but most people just don't understand what those with anxiety go through. It's just a matter of "being a man".

Bottom line is, most men want pinups and most women want studs. As far as I can tell, all relationships begin with pure, mindless sex appeal, so any arguing about it is pretty pointless.


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## vincentgallo4president (May 13, 2006)

Another good one

There once was a man without a spine.

He was a very likable guy. The advantage of not having a spine was that he could fit himself to anyone, and he frequently did. He could flex this way and that.

But he couldn't stand up ...

...and being kinda mushy and flat most of the time, people often walked on him without realizing he was there.

So he got sad, having this dreadful absence of a spine, and he was resentful too. He wondered why other people couldn't fit themselves to him the way he fit himself to others, but that was silly because he never felt he had the right to ask anyone directly to fit themselves to him. He was formless, what was there to fit to anyway? In cyberspace he talked tough as if he had a spine, but people could clearly see by his rage and resentment that he didn't have one in real life, and he perished in the flame wars he provoked and only came out feeling more ashamed and ineffectual.

He wished he could be with a woman, to help him the way a spine would. If he clung to a woman with a spine, he could stand up, but women didn't like it when he did that. He often called them "*****es" for the women with spines coldly asked him to let go of them, or unceremoniously shrugged him and his issues off onto the ground telling him to get his own spine.

If he fancied a spineless woman, on the other hand, he couldn't get her interest because they were looking for men with spines that they could cling to. But the spineless women would hang around with him for sympathy, and he'd be their platonic male friend and play "therapist" though he was as sick as they were. He'd often call himself a "feminist" and lecture these spineless women how to stand on their own when he had no idea of how to stand for himself.

With all the bending and flopping around he did, a spine never could get a chance to grow.

Then one day he had a brainstorm, he decided he'd make himself a spine.

He took a long stick.... and he put it far up his ***.

It was an improvement, though uncomfortable. It was the first time in his life he could walk tall, if not a bit stiff. He found he could have opinions at odds with others, and stand for them. He found out that he didn't have to be liked, that the world didn't end if he pissed someone off. He didn't want to fit easily with other people anymore, in fact he became inflexible.

People commented on the change, some people didn't particularly like him with the stick up his *** but they did notice him more. Some people felt that at least they could respect him, even if they didn't always like him because he did less whining. At least nobody stepped on him by accident.

However relationships still didn't come easy, it was hard for a woman with a spine to love him with the stick up his ***. He was stiff, cold, brutally opinionated, condescending, and self-righteously hostile. But eventually he did attract a very pretty woman without a spine who saw him as a tower of strength to cling to.

At first he loved this woman, he thought the stick up his *** was the answer to his dating problems. He was finally being loved the way he once loved others. At first it was great, and then it was good, and then it was ok, and then it was uncomfortable, and by the end of a year it was infuriatingly suffocating. The spineless woman clung like a straightjacket. The horror!!! The horror!!!

But the stick up his *** made him so inflexible he didn't know how to get the spineless woman off of him, If only he could bend. He was trapped, upright in his "obligations", "duty to her", "guilt", "pride in his commitment", he spent months with his arms helplessly flapping about trying to get her off of him and trying not to look like he was doing that.

He was hoping that she would leave by hinting her indirectly, he used sarcasic tones, said mean things that were "just a joke", neglect, "constructive" criticism intended to insult. He only made the spineless woman feel more insecure, so she clung HARDER.

Spineless men envied him, called him a jerk for the way he was treating her, just the way he remembered how he used to envy other men before he had the stick up his *** (when he'd play consoler to their teary-eyed spineless girlfreinds). If only they knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of a spineless person's embrace they'd understand. He wished she'd leave him for one of the spineless men who envied him. He felt ashamed for the way he must have made women feel in the past when he was trying to cling to them, he knew that they weren't so evil after all.

One day he decided that there was only one way to be free of the spineless woman once and for all, the stick up his *** had to go.

So he pulled the stick out, and to his amazement a miracle happened: he was still standing! All of the years of inflexibility allowed him the chance to grow a spine. At first he was still a bit stiff but eventually he had the flexibility to contort a bit and yet maintained the firmness to struggle, push, and wriggle from the spineless woman's grasp (though she protested much). He stayed far out of her reach and the reach of other spineless women so that he could never be grasped by one again.

He was overjoyed with his new-found freedom; he could bend sometimes like he used to (but not too far) and also he could stand tall. He went out, partied, enjoyed life to the fullest, and eventually found a woman with a normal spine like his.

They stood together as separate individuals giving mutual support and enjoying time alone too, and lived (relatively) "happily ever after"...

The end


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

> Bottom line is, most men want pinups and most women want studs. As far as I can tell, all relationships begin with pure, mindless sex appeal, so any arguing about it is pretty pointless.


That is so absolutely f*cking true. I might use that as my sig.


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## Fly (Apr 9, 2004)

vincentgallo4president said:


> Basically, these comics sum it up, I mean, women like men.
> 
> http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sen ... veguy2.gif
> 
> http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp02142004.shtml


 :lol :thumbsupsmiley: (well, okay just pretend it's there)


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## Fly (Apr 9, 2004)

Prodigal_Son said:


> ^ Pretty much goes under the notion that every sensitive or nice guy not getting action is just being "fake nice" in an attempt to get laid or get the hot girls.


I think it's more a case of some guys constantly saying how nice they are, when in fact (like the first cartoon shows) they're just arses who don't want to face up to their own hypocrisy and problems and shift the blame towards women (in this instance). It's easy and comforting in a sense, i guess, to have scapegoat for your own problems. You (talking in general here. Not aimed at anyone in particular) get to rant and rave against all sorts of silly perceived evils and don't have to face up to your own problems and silly bigotry and generalisations.

I hate generalisations. Germans generalise all the time. I hate that.


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## ott (Aug 2, 2005)

vincentgallo4president said:


> Basically, these comics sum it up, I mean, women like men.
> 
> http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sen ... veguy2.gif
> 
> ...


I read a little on that last link and I have to admit I recognized myself a bit. Except one thing. I definitely don't blame women for anything, I know all too well that it's my own fault only that I don't have a girlfriend, and I have to work on getting myself together before anything can happen (I hope that means I'm not a lost cause). I've been working on that for some time now though and I've definitely improved a lot, but a girlfriend still seems just as unattainable. I just don't know where to start with that.



> I hate generalisations. Germans generalise all the time. I hate that.


Heh, took me a couple of rereads to get the joke in there. I guess that's a sign it's way past bedtime.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

The whole argument is generalizations and hypocrisy though.

"Women like bad boys!" 

Generalization! You can't say that! Offended/response.

Generalization response: "Men who say women like bad boys are just bitter!"

It is like people who will rant and rave about people ranting and raving. Whining about whiners. It never ends. Good discussion though.


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## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

Longie said:


> Never mind mind guys with chips on their shoulders, what is it that you hate about us so much? You're accusing us of what you yourself are doing right here...surely this is because of past experience with guys? If that's the case, how are you any different to your accusation in point no. 2?


Strange response you had there, man. Chill, okay? Sheesh, I'm just stating what I've seen. I never said I was nice. Because I ain't. Used to be, but not anymore.

Look, if you aren't one of those three types of "nice guys" I mentioned, then you have nothing to get offended by. But if you are...well, then you might want to look at your motivations more. So many people delude themselves into thinking they're nice, when they might really not be so nice.


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## VelvetElvis (Apr 29, 2006)

Zephyr said:


> > Bottom line is, most men want pinups and most women want studs. As far as I can tell, all relationships begin with pure, mindless sex appeal, so any arguing about it is pretty pointless.
> 
> 
> That is so absolutely f*cking true. I might use that as my sig.


Thanks, man. I was trying not to blame anyone in particular. People are all scum when it comes to relationships, but it's really a waste of time to talk about without sounding like angsty 14-year old emo kids.


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

vincentgallo4president said:


> Basically, these comics sum it up, I mean, women like men.
> 
> http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sen ... veguy2.gif
> 
> ...


Funny, but the fact of the matter is that i did make my intentions clear.

They all wanted to be just friends, except for one girl, my first and only girlfriend, who was kind enough to brake up with me after two weeks on the grounds i was 'too nice'.

Recalling my sister's dating patterns, i can only remember one time where she dated a 'nice guy'. She dropped him shortly after, again, on the grounds he was just too nice.

Jolly, i wonder where did i ever get this silly idea...


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## penguin (Feb 6, 2005)

Mike^D said:


> Whimsy said:
> 
> 
> > :agree This is the impression I get for a ton of threads! and its so true...stop the f*cking madness...stop blaming others! I know some pretty confident guys and they are not jerks, trying to get into my pants with some hidden agenda. And not all shy guys are sweetness and nice. Some are just plain creepy. Losers come in all dymensions shy or not...Pisses me off. You know what thats why some of you will @#%$ and moan for all eternity about not having a girlfriend. :mum Stop over analyzing.
> ...


heh. Talk about not making sense...

I think if you were capable of reviewing this thread in a calm manner, it would be *clear* to you that I said no such thing and I am not at all amused by your accusation. I have no idea how you leapt to the fantasy of what you thought I said, compared to what I actually said? If you are going to quote someone, at least have the decency to ensure that you are accurate in that quote. How else can *your* future comments be taken with any degree of credibility if you fail on even this basic form of comprehension?

I have never called anybody on this board a loser and I would never do so. In fact, I have always tried to be highly supportive of the people here, which is not to say that when people ask for suggestions or advice or whatever, I will hold back on saying to them: recovery is hard work; it is going to be horrible to go through, and there will be setbacks. But of course, sometimes that is not what people want to hear. Just like the people in this thread did not want to hear that decent women like nice blokes. Here, the general consensus seems to be they want to hear that it's ok to wallow in self pity if they are wallowing; or that it's ok to blame everyone else or whatever. They want to hear everything else except the one thing that might actually help them out? And that's ok too - I understand that because people are at different stages of recovery. It is how it is. It's also annoying and frustrating.

Some people have been very supportive in this thread giving suggestions and opinions on why a "nice guy" is favoured, but their posts have been shouted down amongst a great sea of "we're all losers!" and a tsunami of negativity. And it isn't the supportive people who are yelling "Loser!"

I don't blame archaic for being frustrated and voicing her opinion given what came before and subsequently in this thread.


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## penguin (Feb 6, 2005)

ott said:


> I read a little on that last link and I have to admit I recognized myself a bit. Except one thing. I definitely don't blame women for anything, I know all too well that it's my own fault only that I don't have a girlfriend, and I have to work on getting myself together before anything can happen (I hope that means I'm not a lost cause). I've been working on that for some time now though and I've definitely improved a lot, but a girlfriend still seems just as unattainable. I just don't know where to start with that.


No, it doesn't mean you are a lost cause. Very far from it.

Keep doing what you are doing and the rest will follow.


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## Squizzy (Dec 21, 2004)

> http://www.big-big-truck.com/comics/sensitiveguy/sensitiveguy2.gif


This comic is so true.


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

I read something that I think is true: girls want to hang out with a guy who is not more nice/sensitive than them, and guys want to hang out with a girl who is more nice/sensitive than them. Being a guy who is too nice / sensitive / passive basically means that most girls will not find it attractive.


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## Razorblade Kiss (Oct 29, 2006)

That's true. I want a nice guy, but not someone who's a *****.
There's a difference.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

"attraction is not a choice", David deangelo.


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