# Phenibut powder for anxiety disorders?



## mobile363 (Apr 11, 2004)

A few months ago I bought some phenibut powder. Couldn't remember why, but I decided to do research on the stuff. Apparently it's great for relieving anxiety.

http://www.1fast400.com/?articleID=83

I just took 680mg. Going to see if it works for me. ANyone here have any experience?


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## sandman32 (Dec 1, 2004)

It worked really well for me at times, especially if you are going out and combine it with a few beers. The problem with it is tolerance develops very fast.


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

It was the only supplement that was as strong as a drug. The effect lasts a long time. But it would make me nauseous after a while, it just didn't agree with my stomach. It tastes absolutely horrible, at first I mixed the powder with orange juice but it still tasted horrible so I tried capping it. That was better but it still made me nauseous and the effect lasted too long, after a while I would just wish it would wear off already. I think I took a lot more than 680 mg. Probably three times that dose which is what someone on the forum who first mentioned it recommended as good dose.


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

I never heard of the stuff until I read your post. Does it work? I checked, and GNC dosn't carry it. Where did you buy it? Research on the net sounds positive.


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## mobile363 (Apr 11, 2004)

seph said:


> I never heard of the stuff until I read your post. Does it work? I checked, and GNC dosn't carry it. Where did you buy it? Research on the net sounds positive.


I bought it from http://www.1fast400.com

The best site for supplements in my oppinion. Take a look under "Mood enhancers" I think


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## sandman32 (Dec 1, 2004)

seph said:


> I never heard of the stuff until I read your post. Does it work? I checked, and GNC dosn't carry it. Where did you buy it? Research on the net sounds positive.


Yeah it definetly works. Its supposed to work as good as some benzos, like valium, although i've never tried a benzo so i can't compare. But like i said, tolerance develops very quickly. It can not be an everyday type supplement but works great like once a week. Anxiety is reduced alot and you get a mild sense of euphoria. Take it on an empty stomach, and don't be discouraged if you don't feel anything right away. It can take almost two hours sometimes before I feel anything. The half life is very long, so you can actually get a hangover from it. I also get it from 1fast400.com


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

I ordered some, it actually came today. hevent tried it yet, probably tommorrow since I dont have to work and can gauge the effects.

Also, how much do you take? Nothing on the container says how much to take.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Should theoretically work. They have anticonvulsants (namely Lyrica aka Pregabalin) that work in a similar way and have an emerging reputation for treating anxiety.


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

O.K. I took about 1 gram at 10:30 a.m. , waited about 1 1/2 hours and didnt seem to feel much of anything, so I took another 1/2 gram (trying to take it slow). After just sitting around, messing on the internet, etc., I decided to go walk around the mall a bit (shouldve taken that as a good sign, but didnt think about it until now). Anyway, I think I was expecting a buzz-like reaction, but didnt get that. It's more like you feel good and thats your normal state of being, if that makes sense. I found I wasnt annoyed by people at the mall or on the road (I seemed to be overly curtious while driving). I also maintained eye contact with women. Then I went to buy beer and talked with the guy in line behind me, I didnt even think about that until afterwards either. I will be going out and having a few beers later, so we'll see how that goes. Anyway, I will keep updating on my own experience as it has only been less than 4 hours since I've first taken it.


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

update:

took a total of about 2.5 grams. definately works. i feel uninhibited, but without the f'd up feeling that comes with alchohol (very, very slight numbness around the mouth though). actually, my head feels much clearer than normal, what a weird combo. i can tell that if i took a lot of this stuff it would f me up in a good way though. i also know about the tolerence issue with this, so i don't want to over do it. just cracked open a beer, getting ready to go out...


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

I'll post more if anyone is interested, just let me know. I don't want to be talking to myself :lol


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## Equisgurl (Nov 22, 2004)

I'm interested!! please keep us updated. :b


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## mobile363 (Apr 11, 2004)

Seph, how bad is your anxiety to begin with? Sounds as though it is working well for you.


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

mobile363, did it do anything for you? My anxiety is definitely not as bad as some to begin with, I am able to function and all, I just need more of a "boost". This is only the second day i've had it. today, i took about 2 1/2 grams at once. That dose definitely worked for me. All the research i've done, and what you guys have said, shows that a tolerance develops quickly with this. I'm guessing that HAS to be true otherwise this stuff would be all over the news. I would atleast suggest picking some up and using it in a high anxiety situation because it will atleast work twice. I could feel though, like I said yesterday, that if I took a lot, I would feel really, really good, but i'm not really looking for that from something like this. I hope it continues to work for me, or atleast that the tolerance lessens as you dont use it so that atleast it will be a good go-to substance. One good thing, is that you don't feel stoned or out of it. I'll let you know how the tolerance issue pans out for me. Let me know if you have any questions about my experience (even though it has only been 2 days)


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## Johnny_Genome (Nov 11, 2003)

I've also recently tried this after reading about it here and doing some research. First, it definitely had a positive effect on my anxiety, and this is not just a placebo effect (I should add, nothing I have ever taken has done anything for my anxiety before). I noticed a whole new level of a more carefree me, but not in a drunk way. I have not tried benzos but some have compared it to them.

Like Seph said, it is not a dramatic difference that you feel, but more something that you notice in your actions. The great thing was there was no drowsiness from it, and no mental impairment. Also I felt I slept much better (common for people to take this for insomnia). Also dreams were a little more vivid.

Now, I did have some negative side effects. I'm not exactly sure how much I took, and I would suggest being much more careful than I was in measuring (it's most commonly sold in a powder form). When I took it in the morning (somewhere between 1.5 and 2 grams) it was fine. But in the evening I took another similar dose and later that night and most of the day yesterday I experienced the 'hangover effect' that I had read about (I wasn't drinking). This stuff stays in your system for around 24 hours (which can be good thing). I think a combination or taking 2 doses within 24 hours and not measuring carefully possibly led to this. It's not fun, and I felt slightly nauseated and my head felt a bit 'heavy', and I found it unpleasant enough that I spent most of the day in bed. This feeling lasted at least 24 hours.

So, I would definitely try this on a weekend, or when you don't have to go to work the next day. Start with a single low doses. I am worried about tolerance, so I am not planning on taking this everyday, and I am cutting back the amount.

I'll update next time I try it.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Just a friendly note of caution: this product is not being sold as a supplement and therefore is not legally accountable for any possible side effects.

It's also not approved by the FDA for medical treatment. That normally doesn't mean much, except it's nice to know if the stuff you're taking is at all a carcinogen or teratogen (the link only lists one study, noting no obvious teratogenicity in rats from phenibut, which I don't find too convincing but at least it's something), or causes kidney stones, liver failure, random head explosions, etc. So while it's _probably_ safe and all, I would limit use as much as possible if you're going to use it. Meanwhile, if the mechanism of action seems appealing, I would see a doctor about getting on a prescription drug that does essentially the same thing (Lyrica) or for even cheaper (Neurontin, it's in generic), and in this case you would know how much they have to give to mice before they start to grow tumors.


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## sandman32 (Dec 1, 2004)

Caedmon, How is it not a supplement? What is it considered if it's not a supplement?


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

All this week, Mon. through Fri., I took little more than half a gram in the morning, and I noticed an effect. I haven't taken it today (Saturday), but I do drink beer on the weekends. It has been no where near what I felt last weekend, when I was trying to figure out the dosage though, but I could definately feel it working.


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

I had a weird reaction with phenibut and poppy seeds? This was monday. I had taken less than a gram in the morning. When I got to work, I found out we were having a fancy lunch as a reward for a project we just finished. After the meal, I felt exactly like I did the first time I took phenibut. Actually, it felt a little stronger. The only thing I could think of was that I ate a roll before the meal that had poppy seeds and a roll and breadstick afterwards that both had poppy seeds. Is this just a coincidence, or do you think the poppy seeds somehow enhanced the phenibut? I have not tried to recreate the experience since, besides, it was such a strong reaction that I found it difficult to get work done. Thankfully, it only lasted a little less than 2 hours.


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## garnier (Feb 1, 2006)

What the hell? I ordered 100g of phenibut from 1fast400 over a year ago. It did not [I repeat: *DID NOT*] help me in any way. Only made me dizzy and sleepy when I took ~3g once. Dose of 1,5g, 2g etc. had no noticable effect. If this is supposed to be similar to a benzo, then really all hope is lost for me.

I have not told my doctor (or anyone else) about my social anxiety disorder. And I'm probably never going to.. :no


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## matthew (Feb 8, 2006)

garnier - I am sorry to hear that it did not work for you. 
I know what you are going through. In my moments of bravery I have made appointments with doctors to discuss SA, but I always chickened out and canceled them or just didn't show up. I can't even go to the barber to get my hair cut. How am I going to go to the doctor and ask for drugs?

*Just don't give up! * Just because the phenibut didn't work for you, doesn't mean nothing will. There is a long list of supplements that different people have said helped them with SA:
magnesium glycinate & magnesium taurate, Fish Oil, B vitamens, L-theanine, Rhodiola rosea, Picamilon, SJW, valarium, passion flower, and many more.

So there are a lot of things to try.

I would like to say though that 3g for a first dose of phenibut seems a little excessive. I know that it might seem like because your social anxiety is very bad you will need more drug, but most of the time you should start out with the minumim effective dosage. Less is more. For instance I have found several people who claim that taking to much phenibut actually increases anxiety.

If you still have some you might try giving it another shot. If you do, take a small amount <1g. Also in my experience with it not having any noticable effect is the goal. I don't feel excited, but I don't feel depressed either.

Edit: I would like to add that what ever you decide to take. I, and most people on this board, would be more than happy to help you research it on how much to take, when to take it, etc.


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## matthew (Feb 8, 2006)

One more quick observation about phenibut.

A few day ago I bought magnesium and fish oil and acting on advice from a different forum I took an excessive amount of them this morning. Then this afternoon after posting my last message I took a small amount of phenibut. Right now I am mildly feeling the "hangover effect" that others have described. 

I am not sure what that signifigance of this is. Maybe it is better to take phenibut alone. Or mayber it is a reaction between the fish oil and magnesium with nothing to do with the phenibut. I don't know. :stu 

I guess that is why it is not a good idea to start taking a lot of supplements all at once.


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## b18c1 (Feb 23, 2006)

*Phenibut*

I recently tried out phenibut powder. Took 1 gram and felt real sick. Took 1.5 Grams the next day and threw up about 5 times. My stomach felt real queezy. Ruined my day. It did help my anxiety a little bit but the side effect of feeling sick doesn't make up for it. :fall


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## matthew (Feb 8, 2006)

seph said:


> I had a weird reaction with phenibut and poppy seeds? This was monday. I had taken less than a gram in the morning. When I got to work, I found out we were having a fancy lunch as a reward for a project we just finished. After the meal, I felt exactly like I did the first time I took phenibut. Actually, it felt a little stronger. The only thing I could think of was that I ate a roll before the meal that had poppy seeds and a roll and breadstick afterwards that both had poppy seeds. Is this just a coincidence, or do you think the poppy seeds somehow enhanced the phenibut? I have not tried to recreate the experience since, besides, it was such a strong reaction that I found it difficult to get work done. Thankfully, it only lasted a little less than 2 hours.


I just came across something on crazymeds.org that made me think of this. http://www.crazymeds.org/neurontin.html

Here are the relevent quotes.
-(description similar to phenibut)


> Neurontin (gabapentin) is basically a neurotransmitter in a pill. Rather, it's close to the neurotransmitter GABA. GABA can't cross the blood-brain barrier. True synthesized GABA would have to be injected straight into your noggin. Sorry to make you cringe.





> Neurontin (gabapentin) has a weird drug-drug interaction with opiates. The opiates make Neurontin (gabapentin) work better, but the Neurontin (gabapentin) makes the opiates less efficient! It's weird, and since Neurontin (gabapentin) isn't really metabolized, who the hell knows what the deal is with that. This is spelled out in the PI sheet, but who reads those, right? When you take Neurontin (gabapentin) along with hydrocodone (a.k.a. Vicodin), it decreases the bioavailability of the hydrocodone by up to 22%! While the bioavailability of Neurontin (gabapentin) is increased by 14%. It's even odder when combined with morphine. As Mouse points out there's an element of timing involved, as the one article on the interaction has morphine administered two hours before the Neurontin (gabapentin). The morphine was unaffected, having pretty much been on its way towards peak plasma, but the Neurontin (gabapentin) bioavailability was increased by a whopping 44%! We have no idea if this effect carries over to the artificial opiods, like Demerol or buprenorphine.


I don't really have a point, but I found it interesting that there is a small amount of scientific evidence for The Poppy Seed Theory.

FYI: 


> Interesting Stuff Your Doctor Probably Won't Tell You: Neurontin (gabapentin) is a prime example of the Law of Diminishing Returns in that the more you take the less you get. Seriously. It's right there in the PI sheet. "As dose is increased, bioavailability decreases."


I know phenibut is not Neurontin so you can't say what is true for one is true for the other. But they are similar drugs. So this info might be something to keep in mind while deciding what dosage to take.


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

I haven't had poppy seeds and phenibut at the same time since. It might be fun for a party or something, but not at work.

I just got some more phenibut in the mail. It seemed different. It is more granualized than the last batch I had. I didn't think anything of it and took my normal dose yesterday. I hadn't had it in over a week, since I couldn't re stock until my budget would allow. Anyway, it hit me as hard as ever. Then I looked at the canister, and the dosage is higher than the one I had before. It now says 1/4 teaspoon is 820mgs, whereas before it was like 530mgs. I guess its more concentrated now? So I guess I gave myself almost 3/4's of a dose extra... not complaining though.


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## b18c1 (Feb 23, 2006)

I decided to give it another try and took .5 grams. The only thing it did for me was make me really sleep 5 hours later. Good sleep


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## grizzlybare (Feb 27, 2006)

so would you guys recommend this stuff over 5htp or rhodiola?


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## seph (Jul 31, 2005)

Definately over Rhodiola. Never tried 5HTP.


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## Oberyn (Feb 7, 2006)

sandman32 said:


> Caedmon, How is it not a supplement? What is it considered if it's not a supplement?


I think Caedmon is refering to the somewhat ambiguity behind who manufactors Phenibut in the US. Aside from the GABAtropin brand, there are no other "real" companies (to my knowledge) selling phenibut in standard pill form.

It is much cheaper to buy phenibut in bulk powder... and it's being sold as that, simply a bulk chemical.



grizzlybare said:


> so would you guys recommend this stuff over 5htp or rhodiola?


Definitely. But not as a every day suppliment. Take 1-2 a week at most on a "as needed" basis. It has a MUCH more drastic effect on anxiety than 5htp. I've never tried rhodiola, but i assume the same.

Phenibut is a powerful *DRUG* and is not extracted from some natural plant or herb. I think it's only a matter of time before it becomes controlled to some degree in the US.


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