# Nardil Log



## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

results: 3 months of nardil 90mg tried up to 120mg.conlusion: nardil didn't work for me. only side effects.

My personal log gonna take 45mg for a month until my next meeting with my doc (7 NOV).

DAY 1:
I took it all at once. Don't wanna spread it throughout the day.
I feel kind of warm inside I noticed its been about 30 minutes. I'm a little scared of this medication tbh.
It looks serious and smells weird. What I found odd is the tablets are only orange it doesen't say 15 on them 
thought it would which represent the amount of dosage ofc.
so yeah what can i expect? any tips from fellow nardil users so that I dont die please? lol. Yeah im scared as hell i will admit it.
heres a picture i took:


http://imgur.com/UcNTQzj


another picture:


http://imgur.com/338Sb45


diet-restriction list I use: https://www.scribd.com/document/105365962/Maoi-diet

Nardil PACKAGE LEAFLET: INFORMATION: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/PIL.18543.latest.pdf


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Good man, let the fun begin . Exactly the same brand as mine. Strange but I always felt these pills taste like strong cheese . Keep them in the fridge btw.

You wont die and the scared feeling will go in a few days (if you aren't dead by then  )


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

anything i should watch out for? besides the drug and diet things. 
Atm i feel just a warm feeling on my chest and head. does 45mg even help is it enough? im like 185 pounds.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I cant remember exactly at what dose Nardil kicked in for me but it was quite soon so I would have been on 45mg at the time I think. You probably want to get up to 60mg if you can and see how that goes but no need to rush things, just ask for 60mg at your next appointment.

Cant think of anything else to look out for mate. I didnt get any side effects at all with nardil but seems like a lot of people do, mainly hypotension and constipation from what I have read.


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## Mancman (Sep 17, 2016)

*I would suggest that if you've been sat down for a while to get up slowly...this includes getting up for the toilet in the middle of the night. You may have blood pressure changes. You may loose your balance.
The meds I had were red and smelt strong - no dose marking...my urine smelt of that Nardil smell....
I wouldn't worry - you're young healthy and strong I gather...
Take dietary restrictions serious at this stage....Other people may say 'I can eat anything' 'I can drink that' - They are not you and I have had 2-3 hypertensive problems in around 10 years which weren't fun.

Having said that - your taking Nardil for a reason - You feel you've exhausted all other reasonable options and you've considered the pros and cons...So don't fear it and don't expect too much...but with Nardil you will feel something and maybe by your next appointment you may want to take it up another 15mg.....

I'm hoping to give Parnate a go - If that is refused me I will be going back to nardil because I know what it will do for my depression and SA....If it removes 10-20% of how I feel now that will be fine for me because then I know I'm back on the ladder and can start to climb again....Good luck with everything there mate....Don't hesitate to send me a message or post and I'll tryy to reply ASAP - STEVE *


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> My personal log gonna take 45mg for a month until my next meeting with my doc (7 NOV).
> 
> DAY 1:
> I took it all at once. Don't wanna spread it throughout the day.
> ...


do not worry, my nardil is same as yours. This is Archimedes brand, made in UK.

...and yes it really smells like s*it :grin2:


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## Mancman (Sep 17, 2016)

Yes Archimedes brand....UK....fridgeline med - best to keep in fridge....


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

im afraid to eat anything .... this is so annoying.

I have had none side effects so far. Maybe difficult sleeping that I noticed so far only.
also I was thinking should I get a Nardil Medic Medical Alert Necklace? I don't know how tho or where.
what should I do if I get a hypertensive crisis & how do I know if I have one?


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

There are very few "dangerous" foods to avoid if you are already eating a healthy diet. You don't need to be scared of eating just follow the guidelines you have been given by your doctor / on the patient information leaflets. 

Of course it is easy for me to say that because I'm not the one taking it... if I were on it I know my anxiety would make me paranoid to eat anything as well, but at the same time you have to try to recognise that it is just anxiety.

Do you have a blood pressure monitor?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Someone give me a list of the foods to avoid and which ones I can eat a bit. im reading different things and its making me paranoid and im starving .

im going by this list is it ok? http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/expert-answers/maois/faq-20058035

it says you cant eat leftovers or foods past their freshness dates? I cant eat food left over from yesterday in the fridge? Also can I eat just regular cheese?

DAY 2: Nothing just headache same 45mg.
does nardil have to be taken at the same time? Im usually a few hours too early or too late .


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

im reading here https://erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml
says FOODS TO USE WITH CAUTION
yogurt??Milk? safe unless consumed in large amounts ? like wtf how much is considered large? am I overreacting or?

k just ate some yogurt lets see if i feel anything (EDIT) k yoghurt seem to be fine and i did eat quite a lot


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

"Unripened cheese styles: no tyramine, e.g. curd styles, fromage frais, mascarpone, cream, ricotta, mozzarella, cottage cheeses, bocconcini. Mozzarella, Ricotta. Multiple samples, tyramine, 0 mg/kg (16). Milk and yoghurt: no tyramine."

^ It is a bit of a long read but Dr Gillman's summary might help you? 
He is saying that 25 to 50mg of Tyramine is thought of as safe and very few healthy meals would contain anything like that. Basically you are safe unless you are recklessly chowing down on large amounts of 'danger' foods.

It is food that is going off, fermented, aged or pickled that may pose some risk if eaten in large quantities. Buy fresh food, store it properly, eat within the use by date and avoid the foods listed that are high in Tyramine.

Have you actually been prescribed this medication by a legit doctor? They really should have run through this with you.

edit:
also did you see the thread at the top of this forum?
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/maoi-diet-list-updated-w-exceptions-203759/


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## Mancman (Sep 17, 2016)

I lived in Asia off and on for 8 years plus a 6 month stint in India....I think your in safe hands in Sweden mate....


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yeah legit doctor ofc but his first time giving Nardil.
I have read a lot about diet but so many websites say different things.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

ok im going by this diet https://www.scribd.com/document/105365962/Maoi-diet
i feel more comfortable now.

when i think about it i dont even normally eat anything on that list. can you eat leftovers? like 1-3 days in the fridge.

day 3:
nothing yet just this warm feeling in my chest and head i get after my dose but that has starten to lessen. also can some1 answer my previous questions ? appericate that. 
@Mancman what nardil version did you take? red pills ? lol i would have **** myself . I have a feeling urs were more potent but also more dangerous than the ones i take

(EDIT)
When should I bump to 60mg? Im sure my doc will understand if not **** him

(EDIT 2) How do I know if my nardil is ruined? I keep it in my fridge but i dont know the temperature in there .... But it does keep it cold


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## Mancman (Sep 17, 2016)

*Hi Kurdishfella - mine were very light red...Archimedes brand from the UK like Zeus (above)....I travelled in India in places of high temperatures with no fridge for my meds for some days on end and they still seemed to work so I'm sure you don't have to worry about that too much in Sweden.
I know its easy for me to say mate - but you need to give it time....Trust me I'm nearly 46 and I've been through hell with depression and anxiety and it ain't over for me yet...Trust me.
As the Americans say - Hang tough - Are you working? Somehow you've got to keep busy....you can't sit around waiting 'to come up' on Nardil.
You can send me any any questions mate...*


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Hi Kurdish, milk and yoghurt are fine. I would say 1 day leftover food is fine but to be on the safe side just skip anything 2 days plus. As for going up to 60mg, maybe leave it at 45 for 2 weeks then if you feel you need to, go up to 60mg. Have a read of the gilman link that UKguy posted.

I echo what mancman says, no need to sit around waiting for it to kick in.


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## ameris (Aug 18, 2016)

dont worry about the food trust me. I had one episode but thats because i overdosed on 135mg without titrating.

I will find you a list, but there was this one article that actually listed the tyramine content of all the restricted items(although tyramine contents vary from those on the list, its a good estimate). Even the most tyramine concentrated food won't do THAT much harm to you in "one bite". Many of the restricted foods even required a good amount of it to cause a reaction. The list shows the amount of micrograms of tyramine in a gram. Most of them seem safe but still do not consume them because they still contain tyramine and its better stay safe, besides all the foods they list are gross except the cheese.

Even for the cheese, the ones that had the most were brie, english stilton, and any kind of blue cheese. The rest are okay in small amounts but still stay away from those high end type of cheeses. Any cheese from chain restaurants or any pasteurized/fresh type of cheese is usually safe. Again, anything in moderation(except yeast extract like marmite which we dont have in US though)

i found one article but i cant find the one that i read
https://books.google.com/books?id=m9SMCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=micrograms+of+tyramine+in+food+english+stilton&source=bl&ots=5Fo14UZH_g&sig=5OG49C7DJpCKmRdg4zUOtCwOamg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3zq6lo-DPAhWFPCYKHSRIAKoQ6AEIPzAE#v=onepage&q=micrograms%20of%20tyramine%20in%20food%20english%20stilton&f=false

another one

http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/7351/PDF

it shows there is not much to worry about. Many of the food reports are based on very few cases.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Day 4: 
I feel the gaba effect .... it's making me uncomfortable but thats because im not used to it im sure i will soon...
Anyway I have enough nardil to be able to take 4 a day actually so I will. Tommorow i will bump to 60mg and stay on that dose until my next meeting. my goal is to get to 75mg . I know it's too soon for me to bump ..... but im a naive person .

Well today was my first day going to high school I had the courage to . i got a lot of catching up to do. But I feel the difference Nardil makes but I still have social anxiety. But like I said it's just been 4 days and you guys said I can't sit around waiting for it to work and I agree thats true. Im just gonna go on with my day like usual and update this thread when I feel like it instead of every day.
One last question, I dont know the temperature in my fridge.. is it possible my Nardil can get ruined if its too cold in there?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Hello mate, if the fridge is working then the Nardil will be fine. My fridge ain't the coolest but Nardil has always worked.


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Hello mate, if the fridge is working then the Nardil will be fine. My fridge ain't the coolest but Nardil has always worked.


Curious. What damage can be done if Nardil is left at room temp ? I had left mine at room temp a good few times throughout my usage. Just after getting my first batch of Nardil today after moving to Brighton and was told to keep it in the fridge for the first time. This the the Archimedes brand which i have always been using


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Good question mate, I dont know either actually. Something to do with the coating maybe?


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Good question mate, I dont know either actually. Something to do with the coating maybe?


Probably right. Just after remembering during the summer I had three little orange circles on my palm after taking Nardil in the morning. That was when i had left Nardil on a shelf overnight. You would think room temp in colder climate countries would be ok. Must be hard for people in hot countries storing Nardil.

How are you getting on with your dosage ? Did you drop down to 60mg in the end ?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

No didn't drop down in the end. I was taking 150mg trazodone as well and initially all was ok but then went through a couple weeks where my motivation dipped and a bit of anhedonia crept in. which I`ve never had once on Nardil so I assumed it was the traz, and sure enough, when I dropped down to 50mg traz all went back to normal. Now taking 100mg traz and 50mg quetiapine along with 75mg, and all is very well !!

How about you, still back down on 60mg?


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> No didn't drop down in the end. I was taking 150mg trazodone as well and initially all was ok but then went through a couple weeks where my motivation dipped and a bit of anhedonia crept in. which I`ve never had once on Nardil so I assumed it was the traz, and sure enough, when I dropped down to 50mg traz all went back to normal. Now taking 100mg traz and 50mg quetiapine along with 75mg, and all is very well !!
> 
> How about you, still back down on 60mg?


Yup! All the weight i gained on 75mg just fell off me  Back on my usual 60mg dose and its working just as good. Deffinitally has been a great asset for college.

You mentioned anhedonia. What would you recommend along side Nardil to counteract it ? I've always noticed Nardil has never helped much on that side of things. Its definitely not as severe compared to the anhedonia I got from SSRI's. But since it still regulates serotonin, i've got very subtle increases of anhedonia from when I started Nardil.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Nardil has always been good for me with regards to anhedonia but quetiapine works really well along side nardil for that. 50mg or so is enough for me, and at that dose quetiapine (well its metabolite) acts as a NRI. It also antagonises the 5ht2 receptors which can increase dopamine.

After a few days, any drowsiness and hunger disappears for me on 50mg.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Wow the GABA effect Nardil has ... kind of making me dizzy....Yes I tried 60mg today .. (day 5?) 
I need help my Nardil tablets stick to each other. is this normal ? its like someone put a bit of glue on them.... im worried i ****ed it up.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Kurd,

Dizzy.. Hmm how is you BP?

Maybe they get effected by the moisture, put the can in a plastic bag, also it should be these "moist absorbing" packs in the can...

For refridgerator temp, throw in a thermometer, and leave it there for a couple of hours... Try to get the temperature "down" to 5c, 4-5c, Most people have to warm...

Leftover can then usually be okay to eat for some 2 days, more then 2 and you should watch out...

You also need to kinda know how sensetive you are to Tyramine. Some can handle abit while on MAOI, Other get hypertensive reactions.

Gillman 2016


> A potentially serious BP reaction can only occur if a relatively large
> amount of tyramine is eaten or drunk. For those on MAOIs most
> people (> 50% of the population) will need to ingest at least 25 mg
> of tyramine. A small proportion of people are more sensitive to
> ...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Anyone know when nardil will start working? its been like 8 days!


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Difficult one to say Kurdish, 8 days was round about the time it kicked in for me and then improved day after day but sure you have read other people on here who say it took them a month or more. Give it at least a month.


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

I think with most antidepressants they say you have to give it at least 6 weeks to tell if a medication works or not. Even if 6 weeks is a bit excessive 8 days is definitely too soon to tell.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

what dose were u on SFC?


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

Took 9 weeks before Nardil took affect for me. It wasn't gradual though. Just kick in one morning during the 9th week. Been working ever since at 60mg 

The average is usually 6-8 weeks for most people. Just don't give up on Nardil until you give it at least a full 3 month trial.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Kurdish, I was on either 45mg or 60mg, cant quite remember. Some might say that kicking after 8 days is a placebo effect but I've taken so much stuff in my lifetime both legal and otherwise to recognise a placebo. Before nardil I was in a ****ing hole, and had been for a good while but after a week or so on it, my depression and anxiety had disappeared but as BTS says above, just stick it out for a good while.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Pubmed extract for you Kurdish -

*Abstract*

Sixty patients, 30 with depressive neurosis, 15 with anxiety neurosis and 15 with phobic anxiety states, were treated with the monoamine oxidase inhibitor, phenelzine, in two different dosage schedules for four weeks. All patients received an initial dose of 15 mg daily, increasing to 30 mg daily between the third and seventh day, but subsequently, using double-blind procedure, one group tooke the commonly prescribed dose of 45 mg daily and the other took 90 mg daily. Acetylator status was independently determined before the start of treatment. Each diagnostic group showed a similar response to treatment, but patients taking the higher dose improved significantly more than those taking normal dosage, and the rate of improvement, measured by weekly self-ratings, was also more rapid with higher dosage. Acetylator status did not affect clinical response. The results suggest that dosage is more important in determining clinical response to phenelzine in neurotic disorder than specific diagnosis or acetylator status.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

DAY 11: Why does nardil feel like a sugar pill? Is my nardil ruined? I don't get any effect from it now. If nardil doesn't work I'm gonna try Parnate and if that doesn't work i will shoot myself .
Nah just kidding but what other MAOI are there? Im just mad cuz i thought Nardil was gonna work like pretty fast since i heard so many good things.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

What dose are you on now mate ? Its day 11 so stick with it. If there is one drug you wanna stick with to see if it works, then its nardil. Try and remember quick fix meds are probably not going to help you in the long run where as nardil will. Patience fella !


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

60mg ... 

btw i got like 30 leftover propranolol? should i throw that away?


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## User5 (Jun 22, 2010)

KurdishFella said:


> 60mg ...
> 
> btw i got like 30 leftover propranolol? should i throw that away?


Why are you on 60mg already? Nardil takes up to two months to work. It took 6 weeks to work for me. It's not a magic pill; you'll still have to put up with life, but hopefully it'll help you manage.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

cuz 45mg is a low dose. what u mean u have to put up with life? of course . i just don't want do have any social anxiety and be normal like the other people . ****ing pissed at the moment. day 12 nothing. @User5


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

If you didn't think the propranalol was any good then ditch it I suppose. It does its job for me when I need for work.

I dont see any issue with being on 60mg so soon, kind of mirrors what I did and it worked perfectly. It had kicked in for me by day 12 and there is no way it was placebo but everyone is different so just hang in there kurdish. Plenty of people have posted on here in the past, (and BTS on this thread) that it has kicked in after a good few weeks for them so dont sweat it mate. It will be fine.

Any side effects yet ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

uhhh yeah some sleep problems sometimes I dont sleep that much and other times I need to sleep for like 10+ hours.
constipation...
let me think... a little bit of fatigue, tired fast.

But im afraid there something wrong with my nardil tablets. they kind of sticky when i pick them up and stick to each other. i dont know why . I keep the bottle with the nardil tablets in the little white nardil box that came with it in the fridge in like a fridge layer.

also should i ask my doc for a different nardil brand? I want the one mancman had the red ones . dont know if its possible . . . .


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

You have the same brand as me Kurdish and they work, are you sure mancman's were different. Mine dont stick together though. 

Stick a room temperature glass of water or can of coke in your fridge and check it after an hour or so. If its cooled or chilled then your nardil will be fine.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i put not too warm but not too cold either water in the fridge it was there for like 1 hour or a little more. It was pretty cold after i took it out. but i dont know what that got to do with the nardil being sticky... its only when i pick them up. in the bottle they dont stick maybe the sudden change of temperature has somth to do with it... or the way its stored.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

haha sorry I though you meant that you felt the fridge wasn't cold enough causing the sticky nardil hence the little experiment. It didn't suggest it just for the sake of it 

Don't worry about it, its nothing mate.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Well the Nardil euphoria is over. It lasted about 1 week or something. Im glad its gone I didn't like it to be honest. Some say it last them for like 2-3 weeks hopefully this is a sign that Nardil will work quicker for me or something. But I can't lie I'm sad as hell because I just wanna start enjoying my life for once. Tired of going around like I am shy when in fact I'm not. I can't take another day like this but what can you do? .. Imagine if i am on it for like 1 month or 2 and its still not working. what then? Best med for social anxiety doesn't work for you? ur basically screwed . but i don't well i hope its not the case with me.... I mean what do u do then? I have no friends no social life .I Just wanna go in a corner and cry . Well I'm not worried yet just mad when it's 3 weeks then i will start to worry. I have started leaving schoo early too which is a problem ...... im waiting for something that might not even work which is what is scaring me the most.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Not much else to be said Kurdish, you just have it to give it time. You might be one of the ones that takes a good 6 weeks or so before it works or it may kick in tomorrow.

How about trying 75mg ? If you have enough that is and are confident that your doc wont insist on you staying at 45.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Kurd heres from the "experts"

http://www.mdedge.com/currentpsychi...ion-worth-trying-treatment-resistant/page/0/1


> The author later learned that a dose of more than 1 mg/kg per day for 3 to 4 weeks was necessary for response. A rule of thumb is to start with one MAOI pill the first day and increase the dosage by one pill every 4 to 7 days until these levels are reached:
> 
> 
> 1 mg/kg/d for phenelzine;
> ...


_1_.

neiglobal.com 


> *What time frame is needed to know if a patient is or isn't responding to treatment with an MAOI?*
> The question that necessarily precedes this one is: how do we know that we have reached an adequate dose? Theoretical reasons, and some practical experience, suggest that MAO needs to be inhibited very strongly, perhaps to around 95% in order to get the full benefit. Very few laboratories offer platelet MAO inhibition studies, perhaps we should demand that more of them do. It seems very probable that the next best measure (which probably correlates with MAO inhibition), is the degree of postural hypotension patients exhibit (subjective symptoms of faintness are unreliable). It is impossible to explain this fully in the context of short response, but those interested may find the graphs that are posted on my website illustrating this blood pressure change helpful. Monitoring of sitting and standing blood pressure (with two consecutive standing measurements) is essential when using these drugs. When the degree of postural hypotension becomes significant, a drop of ~20 mmHg or so in systolic BP, but not sufficient to cause disabling lightheadedness and faintness, then the dose is adequate. A significant degree of adaption to postural hypotension occurs over time, such that if the dose is maintained for 14 days the degree of blood pressure drop is significantly lessened.
> Once that dose has been reached how long it takes to notice a response rather depends on who is looking, and for what. If you concentrate on anergia and anhedonia you will see significant improvements more rapidly than if you concentrate on subjective symptoms (especially anxiety). In patients demonstrating even minor degrees of psychomotor retardation improvements in volume, speed and tone of voice, and reactive facial expression, these improvements are frequently observable within days (the word "animation" is perhaps the most satisfactory single descriptor). Substantial improvement in energy levels are likely to be noticeable within 10 to 14 days (of reaching a proper therapeutic dose). It is remarkable how many patients do not report subjective improvement for longer periods.
> Note:* When phenelzine is used for chronic anxiety allow 2-3 months for improvement. *
> ...


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

AND YES SAVE THE BETABLOCKERS!....

Fast vem vet, kanske dyker upp nått i brevlådan hahahahahahah!
(jävla posten)


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

"cold" water from the crane/tap is about 7c.. so yeah it needs to be colder....

But ehh don't worry to much... You know by know what to do if having an Hypertensive reaction!!!


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Good post watertouch, the second extract re timing of effects, from Gillman, ties in beautifully with my experience when first starting up. Although the only time I`ve ever felt hypotension on nardil is when I`ve been taking amphetamine or ethylphenidate etc, especially the day after.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Good post watertouch, the second extract re timing of effects, from Gillman, ties in beautifully with my experience when first starting up. Although the only time I`ve ever felt hypotension on nardil is when I`ve been taking amphetamine or ethylphenidate etc, especially the day after.


Its commonly used to raise BP (Amph) (see Dr cole) .... But the day after you said, it gets lowered than normal. Does seems to apply to the function of it...

Whats your normal BP when waking up/ before taking Nardil or caffeine or such???


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

No idea mate ! I don't check blood pressure myself, but I have had it checked regularly by pdoc and gp since I have been on nardil as they insist on it and it has always been spot on, but my appointments are usually a bit later in the day after nardil and caffeine, brekky etc. The only time it was low once, where the GP said it was too low, was after nardil morning dose and before any caffeine or food etc.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

^ yeah i was abit "paranoid" when i started with MAOI, did like 5 readings a day or such... hahaha Have a full book of readings and at what time...

Nowdays i only take readings if i feel like i have a really high BP, or low...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

So im like 85kg (187 lbs) or something. I have to be on the max dose for Nardil to work? (90mg).


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> So im like 85kg (187 lbs) or something. I have to be on the max dose for Nardil to work? (90mg).


No not really, but most need some 1mg/kg... everyone is different, didn't i send you the "robinson" report? or was i just reffering to it with the 1mg/kg rule?


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## amber89 (Jan 7, 2016)

I started nardil 1 week b4 you. We are sharing the same experiences i guess. However ive been on 45mg and not increasing. In 27 130 pounds so not sure if i need to. I felt nothing the first 3 weeks was so happy my insomnia wasnt getting worse. This week i went manic for 1 day and now depressed the next. Am i bipolar or is it the med. Im having really bad chest pain and am scared. Also have hardcore insomnia now. My doctor wants me back down to 30mg but what good is that going to do. Nothing. Im continuing 45mg but will run out because my doc is watching my dosage and wont increase it


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

You should stick to your current dose and give it a good two months or a little more. Don't think about upping the dose just yet as you will just start the whole process again with the Hypomania and what not. I'm 83Kg so pretty much the same as you and 60mg works just fine. I tried 75mg two months after Nardil kicked in and it wasn't of much benefit to my current 60mg. I gave it a solid month trial that time around. 

Honestly the best any Nardil user starting out can do is to to stop reading up on Nardil reviews. Though I know how hard that can be. I pretty much ready every post that has the word Nardil in it when i was waiting for it to kick in haha


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

@amber89, I never went from manic to depressed like you but my mood did fluctuate up and down a bit at 45mg to 60mg. When I moved up to 75mg, it became consistently good. I wouldn't worry about being bipolar, hopefully its a sign that nardil is starting to make some real changes.

Have never had chest pains tho.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

is it normal to feel like im not on any medication at all on Nardil? btw 2 weeks tommorow !!!


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

give it more time
two weeks is nothing. 

I got relief with Nardil after about 7 weeks (1 week 45mg, 4 weeks 60 mg, 2 weeks 75 mg).


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

when i put a little force with my nail on the nardil tablets the colour goes off, is this normal? you see the white under the orange colour .


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

the colour is going of when i just swipe my finger with a little force on the nardil pills.. its scaring me ;/ I took the nardil bottle out of the box dont know what difference it will do .


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> the colour is going of when i just swipe my finger with a little force on the nardil pills.. its scaring me ;/ I took the nardil bottle out of the box dont know what difference it will do .


Whats with this obsession about the pill? Its "legit" if imported by the Pharmacy... Its just the coating. Use a plastic bag around the can to make sure its not getting effected by any moisture.

Altough you cold make a thread about just Archimedes Nardil.

Since they use Gavis n Greenstone in the US.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

watertouch said:


> Whats with this obsession about the pill? Its "legit" if imported by the Pharmacy... Its just the coating. Use a plastic bag around the can to make sure its not getting effected by any moisture.
> 
> Altough you cold make a thread about just Archimedes Nardil.
> 
> Since they use Gavis n Greenstone in the US.


yes i know i just wanna make sure its not ruined.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> yes i know i just wanna make sure its not ruined.


Its probably fine, i would however use a plastic bag also... 
I normally store my meds in the fridge during summer, (some meds needs to be stored below 25c)


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

forget about the pills Kurdish, they're fine. How is your mood? no positives yet ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

nop i feel a bitt more happy but i dont know if its the nardil since its still early(17 days), i have an appointment soon in 1 week with my doctor im gonna ask to increase to 90mg.


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## Mancman (Sep 17, 2016)

2 weeks is early days to feel anything major Kurdish....the pills will be fine...try not to be looking for any subtleties mate...let Nardil work itself into your system mate.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i saw this thread on here http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/pfizer-greenstone-nardil-765202/
its about one nardil brand is better than the other. is there any truth to this? Is it possible i can choose my own brand?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> i saw this thread on here http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/pfizer-greenstone-nardil-765202/
> its about one nardil brand is better than the other. is there any truth to this? Is it possible i can choose my own brand?


Naa i had that problem with Parnate, going from Mercury pharma 28pill/can to the GSK brand 100p/can... You kinda need to motivate why.

but this was just embarrassing to pick out.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I doubt whether you could choose Kurdish, but the ones you use are the same ones that have had life changing amazing effects for me. The only thing you need now is patience mate, nothing else. 

Could well be the nardil making you a bit more happy as it worked for me early on, so hopefully its the start of things and your mood will keep on improving each day like mine did. So i take it your'e on 75mg now if you are going to ask for 90mg?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

no man im still on 60mg until next appointment.
i dont know if its the nardil but food tastes weird like not as good.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

3 weeks tomorrow on thursday ..... ooo should be getting close now right..?
btw im starting to experience a little bit of ED.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

should i increase to 90mg on monday or 75mg?


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

seems like you are taking to much medicin kurdishfellow, i have read throug your posts and threads. do you really have to take so much medicin and such strong ones?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

I just take Nardil at the moment.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

ljubo said:


> seems like you are taking to much medicin kurdishfellow, i have read throug your posts and threads. do you really have to take so much medicin and such strong ones?


See my prev post
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nardil-log-1891241/index2.html#post1087447634


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> should i increase to 90mg on monday or 75mg?


Go with 75mg... its probably better, and keeps you from having side effects from higher doses, wich would make you have the need to lower it...


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

yeah 75mg, I`m quite a big lad  all muscle of course !! and 75mg is fine for me !!


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

can they discontinue nardil? scary to think about. since they dont make so much money from it i think?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i always wake up starving ..... .... .. . is nardil eating my protein?!


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Hello mate, don't know whether it eats protein or not, but any increased appetite should eventually fade. Just have a pint of water and a coffee or a low calorie redbull when you wake up before breakfast and hopefully it will take away some of that hunger.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> i always wake up starving ..... .... .. . is nardil eating my protein?!


Eggs dude, like 5 scrambled eggs!... Thats "breakfast for champs"


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## User5 (Jun 22, 2010)

Sorry if I came across as preachy. I didn't feel anything on day 12, either. It took me 6-7 weeks to really feel relief. The pills smell pretty weird, eh?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

what dose @User5 ?

Anyone know of a good medication for OCD? Or can Nardil help with that?


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Meds for OCD tend to be SSRI high dose. Or Clomipramine. With a side order of antipsychotic (/puke). Not that they helped me in the slightest. Nardil might help. 

Hang in there with the Nardil Kurdish, you need to be very patient and give it enough time to work


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

im so frustrated .... 25 days comon work already please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm gonna go 90mg soon fk all this waiting man. 90 is the max dose right?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

guys if this brand of nardil i take now wont work. will changing the brand make a difference or is it just the same ****?


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

It is possible that theres a difference between Nardil from Archimedes and Nardelzine from Pfizer. I know Nardelzine's TMAX is reached after 40 min. ( thats why i expirienced a smoth stimulatig after taking 90mg). With Nardil from Archimedes i didnt expierienced that. 

I talked with my psychiatrist and 3 pharmaceutics about that and they said its possible that they got different pharmakokinetic. Self on multiple requests by my doctor they didnt want to gave the datas of Nardil.

I dont think they differ so much. 

If Nardil isn't working for you have to increase the dosage or wait longer. Phenelzine itself is metabolized from the monoaminoxidasis and by another mechanism called a acetylation. Means you have to wait much longer to achieve the full effect instead of Parnate.




One funny difference is Nardelzine makes you piss another color that Nardil xD


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

^ The Pfizer brand can be stored in room temp also i think.
https://www.drugs.com/pro/nardil.html

https://www.drugs.com/pro/images/513a41d0-37d4-4355-8a6d-a2c643bce6fa/nardil-03.jpg


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Anyone got a MAOI alert braclet? i found a site dont know if its legit . https://www.medicalert.ca/Who-needs-it And scroll down till you see MAOIS


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

No I dont, just avoid serious injury and you'll be ok


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Packed in trazodone, quetiapine, amitriptyline and dihydrocodeine a few days ago. Man, I feel good, sharp as a razor !! Thank you nardil old boy!


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> No I dont, just avoid serious injury and you'll be ok


:grin2:


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

havent take nardil for 2 days 3 on friday. because i ran out of supply. so i had to order again and wait for it to come. it comes friday tommorow and i will start on 90mg. i hope this doesent have any effect .. im starting on 90mg tommorow. What im worried about is i have to start over again? Do I still have nardil in me?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Should be ok Kurdish, I had to stop twice for surgery for 5 days both times, felt the withdrawal after about 4 days but nothing extreme and as soon as I started again, it kicked in almost instantly, as it did when I swapped back from parnate twice.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

got nardil 1 bottle. they ordered 4 bottles lmao. i could only afford 1 when i was there gotta go back later with cash.
1 bottle is 25 bucks
so 100 bucks for all 4.
also the ***** in the counter dropped my ****ing nardil bottle on the floor. stupid hoe. It better not have ****ed up my nardil tablets or somebody is dying. 
I took the nardil on the bus stop lol i wanted the nardil in me asap. 90mg.. i didn't feel anything . thought i would since it 30mg more than i used to take and i haven't taken it for 3 days. weird. 
anyway I'm at school right now nardil in my bag i was in a hurry i was late for school so . But it was worth it i rather be 1 hour late and get my nardil then go to school without nardil... Im giving nardil 90mg 2 + more months and thats it. I'm on day 26 now i removed 3 days since i haven't been on it for that long. I will post a picture of all 4 when i get home and i bought the last 3. this max dose better work! Is it safe to store all 4 bottles in a plastic bag together in the fridge? aight I'm out .

also sfc. can u go over 90mg or is that the max? say 90mg won't work . lets say 115mg? or too dangerous

(EDIT) I feel a lot more happier lol then I have these past days .. finaly. man nardil really helps depression. Social anxiety not so much ...... ;/
Also I forgot to tell you guys I bought a blood pressure monitor like a week ago when i was on 60mg nardil my blood pressure was normal. gonna be on 90mg nardil for a few days and see if my blood will still be normal. hopefully it will. And I put the nardil bottle in a plastic bag in the fridge. let me know if i shouldnt be doing this . the plastic bag kind of smelled weird lol inside.

(EDIT2) yay finaly got all the nardil. heres how it looks


http://imgur.com/338Sb45


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

Dude, stop playing around with Nardil. You have low testosterone. (I read your post about your low testosterone level). Being in the very low end of the official 'normal' range doesn't mean you are at a normal level - there are sick 75 year olds who have been smoking their entire lives included in that range. Start doctor shopping around for one that is sensible/knowledgeable enough to put you on TRT. Your low test has a very good chance of being the source of your depression and anxiety problems. It certainly was in my case.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

you want me to stop nardil and get testosterone therapy? Or did i read wrong. i wanna do it but its not as easy nobody will give it to me since im young and my levels are in the so called average . so nardil is my only choice. well medications are my only hope.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

I think i am having weight gain  or im just not losing any weight. does this side effect go away?

Anyone know if nardil can pop out?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Welcome to the fat club Kurdish, let the fun and wobbly times begin !! 

Seriously, I`m sure it will pass after a bit, just watch your calories and exercise levels. I`ve been eating sub 2000 calories a day for the last week, and no hunger at all.

There are experiences of nardil stopping working, but then again, plenty of experiences of 10/20 years plus and still effective. Some of it maybe related to the positive effects becoming the norm, as with a lot of things in life, you only really notice changes in dynamics and momentum etc. 

I've certainly not felt it has lost any effect as in I still cant feel depressed or anxious and have a happy outlook on life.

Any positives yet ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

positives?.. depression has decreased a bit not 100%. I feel like these past 2 days it's starting to do something for my social anxiety. yup thats about it. I might be the only case were Nardil fails lol.

Day 30 btw.


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> positives?.. depression has decreased a bit not 100%. I feel like these past 2 days it's starting to do something for my social anxiety. yup thats about it. I might be the only case were Nardil fails lol.
> 
> Day 30 btw.


Your only 4 weeks in! What ever you experience atm is a free bonus to whats to come. I was just the same thinking Nardil wasn't going to work. Was so close to stopping and restarting Nardil cause I thought i screwed it up somehow. Even wrote up a thread about it lol. Just take it easy and give Nardil time to work its magic. You probably are going to have it work the same way it did for me where it kicks in all at once rather than gradual. Its the most fun cause when it does kick in. You will KNOW its working


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Blue Table Space said:


> Your only 4 weeks in! What ever you experience atm is a free bonus to whats to come. I was just the same thinking Nardil wasn't going to work. Was so close to stopping and restarting Nardil cause I thought i screwed it up somehow. Even wrote up a thread about it lol. Just take it easy and give Nardil time to work its magic. You probably are going to have it work the same way it did for me where it kicks in all at once rather than gradual. Its the most fun cause when it does kick in. You will KNOW its working


Do you have the same brand as me? (archimedes nardil) 
Also what dose are you on?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

can medications cause enlarged prostate? I think since I started taking anti-depressant I have had hard time to pee even tho I quit them. Should I get it checked out?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> can medications cause enlarged prostate? I think since I started taking anti-depressant I have had hard time to pee even tho I quit them. Should I get it checked out?


ehh kinda... But its probably the noradrenaline that have so to say anticholinergic effects that are the problem.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

My brother sought help for other problems but doc wanted to check his prostate...
You gonna get a "probe" the size of a *Maglite *flashligt in your behind...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

man im getting so little sleep on nardil..... and im getting fat. Worth it.

I am having major fatigue.... hope this goes over. tired af.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

im gonna burst out in tears man.. tired of going to school. how much longer do i have to wait ;( day 33?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Sorry to hear mate, try and stick with it as long as you can, at least to day 60.

Would you be able to try parnate ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yeah that is my second choice. is it better than nardil for depression atleast?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

For me it wasn't but then I never got above 40mg on a regular basis which by all accounts is not a sufficient dosage for it to do its thing. Been great for others tho according to the many online experiences but my impression from reading them all is that nardil is the slightly better choice for both depression and for anxiety.

I guess making sure your doc will allow you to go up to 60-80mg parnate at least before you start would be the thing to do as you don't wanna jump on it and then find out a while down the line that they wont let you go higher than 30-40mg.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

OMG ITS WORKING GUYS!! NO WAY.............. Nah just kidding... I wish ... hmm what day is it? like day 38


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

If you analyse every day in detail it will do your head in... fluctuations in mood and anxiety are so common that day to day variation will mask any real changes. 

Personally I would suggest you try to look at the bigger picture to see if there is a trend of improving, staying the same or getting worse. 38 days is not a lot, probably should give it at least 60 and then evaluate.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

how long did it take nardil to kick in for you guys? it's been 5 weeks and 4 days for me. Does it really take 6-8 weeks? Or is that a lie..? I feel nothing right now. Just side effects . Not helping with depression even anymore. Is side effects a sign it starting to work? When I Was on 60mg I had no side effects but 90mg I do. And IM 16 days on 90mg. Maybe I have to be on the 90mg for like 1 month for it to work? Do the side effects have to disappear before Nardil can kick in?

Also @UKguy shouldn't i be feeling at least something? how was it for you again?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I would give the 90mg at least a month Kurdish. Apparently according Gilman, hypotension is a sign of it starting to work, although I only ever get that the day after if i mix with something like amphetamines. You noticed any kind of dizziness or some visual blackout when standing or moving suddenly? 

90mg must surely be enough to inhibit the sufficient amount of MAO for a response. If it doesn't eventually work for you then maybe its not a neurotransmitter issue you have and you need to start looking outside the usual monoamine theory most antidepressants are based on. Maybe things like NMDA eg keatmine or opoid drugs. I dont know, just an idea.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

are you taking anything else at the moment or just nardil?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Really? I had like very low blood pressure once it was like 96/58 now its like 110/76 even after I take Nardil. But it's not working... I got like 300 nardil tablets left and I take 6 a day so yeah. How long will that last I'm guessing like 50 days? I could be wrong but thats how much more I'm giving it. So in total Im giving nardil like 3+ months. I did notice dizziness one day when my blood pressure was 96/58 so I thought my blood pressure was dangerously high so I checked it and yeah low as hell to my surprise. Thats when I stood up and started moving. To be honest I have lost most hope for this medication just a tiny bit left. Anyway is side effects some kind of sign? Im sleeping like 2-3 times a day for a few hours its annoying as hell  I feel nothing besides the side effects.

Does it kick in gradually or just instantly one day?

(EDIT) Just take Nardil. & multivitamins...


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

yeah give it 90mg per day as long as you can with the stash you have.

Well, Gillman thinks the hypotension thing is a sign, and other people say that side effects show its working but I didnt get any and it worked. As for sleep, try to get whatever sleep you can at night and resist the temptation for a kip during the day, apart from maybe 30 mins early afternoon. You may be tired for a few days but it will sort itself out if you force some kind of consistent pattern. Alternatively, get some quetiapine, 50mg to 75mg. It has always worked well alongside nardil for me, not just for sleep but additional benefits to stabilising mood as nardil can sometimes feel very stimulating for me, which is ok for a few days but can get on your tits when you run out of things to do

It kind of kicked in one day for me, not in a particular euphoric way but just a nice surprise after a couple of years of waking up full of gloom, and then it built from there everyday.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

why does Nardil work faster for some people and some take longer to work?


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

there is not one reason... but it could be possible that the individual activity of the monoaminooxydasis, the acetylatorstatus, individual downregulation of dopamine,serotonine,norepinephrine receptors and and and


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

It took 9 weeks and 4 days for it to kick in for me so you could say I was one of the slower ones to benefit from Nardil. It kicked in all at once after dosing one morning. Felt I had taken a mild dose of MDMA which was a big surprise after a really depressing 3 weeks prior. After that initial kick it slowly dropped throughout that day to a a nice steady level and has been at that level ever since. Just give it time and wait it out. I'm confident it will work for you as it has for the rest of us


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Stay with it as long as you can @KurdishFella. Differences in brain chemistry and such mean you don't know if and when it will kick in, but what a lot of people have said in this and other threads is that it can kick in suddenly and can _really_ help things.

A few more weeks if needed doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things if you find something that genuinely works 



watertouch said:


> My brother sought help for other problems but doc wanted to check his prostate...
> You gonna get a "probe" the size of a *Maglite *flashligt in your behind...


Watertouch, my doctor insists on checking my prostate gloveless, he says the enhanced sense of touch helps him better detect illness.

(did I go too far?).


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

splendidbob said:


> Watertouch, my doctor insists on checking my prostate gloveless, he says the enhanced sense of touch helps him better detect illness.
> 
> (did I go too far?).


Sounds plausible, after all, he is a Doctor.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Schneegestein said:


> there is not one reason... but it could be possible that the individual activity of the monoaminooxydasis, the acetylatorstatus, individual downregulation of dopamine,serotonine,norepinephrine receptors and and and


And of course my favorite subject, the HPA-Axis 
An HPA-Axis dysregulation can take some time to fix...


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

damn that axis !


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

just noticed your post above that - laughing my head off


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> damn that axis !


Yes DAMN IT TO HELL!
And if one adds the Thyroid and Gonads, ohh its just to complicated.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

dont even mention the gonads, they've been giving me trouble all my life


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

anyone see the family guy episode about the prostrate examination ha


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

prostate even


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)




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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> anyone see the family guy episode about the prostrate examination ha


Hehe yeah thats almost priceless, Both the reaction from Peter when it happens and specially when Peter remembers it happen. :grin2:

Its kinda weird one doesn't really question it at the Drs office.
I was at an Endo who wanted to check my "junk".


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I be a doctor !!

Your link dont work mate ?

Your junk haha


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

watertouch said:


> Sounds plausible, after all, he is a Doctor.




Well, he _said_ he went to medical school at least.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Ouch my blood pressure was at 150/90 after I take Nardil. I feel just warm when it goes that high in my head & chest. It's ok tho, doesn't hurt. Goes down pretty quickly after like 30-40 mins maybe less. Does this go over or is it something you will have to get used to?

If more people that are on Nardil or been can post their experience with how long it took for it to work. Would appreciate it and calm me down a bit.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Come on lurking nardilers, give Kurdish some help.

Re blood pressure, how often do you check it fella ? dont know what others think but could it be detrimental to ones state of mind ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

I check it when I feel like it or feel a little weird. Usually its dangerous when it reaches like 160/120(probably a little more than 160). But luckily I don't think mine will ever go that high unless I somehow get a reaction from food or a medication. But my blood pressure goes down pretty quickly and during the day its pretty Low like 110/70. It doesn't bother me that much to be honest that it goes up that high for like 30 minutes. just sometimes it will go up that high when I take it and some other times it won't, It's weird. I guess it could be unhealthy if it's like dangerous levels all the time . But many people have around 150/90 without taking any medication. Water touch I think said he's levels are around that normally. 


Sadly I don't think there are many Nardil users left most have left from what I have understand.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

not sure you can feel high blood pressure unless its of the hypertensive crisis type or chronic, well thats what I have read only.

Why don't you join another forum like Dr Bob or Psychcentral and ask on there? There seems quite a few MAOI users and knowledgeable posters on there, especially Dr Bob forum.

I suppose at the end of the day, your experience is what it is at the moment and whatever will be, will be, but understand you are getting a bit anxious at whether it will work or not. I guess the trick is how long do you give it ! you may decide to quit just when it was just about to work and miss out on the huge benefits. Its a powerful antidepressant and hard to get so its worth trying to stay on as long as you can.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Anyone else have this when you take your Nardil dose your blood pressure will go up a lot after 5-10 minutes and then go back down again after like 15-20 mins? Whenever I take my dose of 90mg I breath fast, I feel tired, my chest feels weird and I get a odd feeling in my head. And I go to bed and I end up sleeping.. today I slept 5ish hours.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

how do you knowing its doing that mate ? are you measuring it ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yeah I got a blood pressure Monitor. I check before I take the Nardil its very LOW then when I take my nardil it shoots up pretty high and goes down after.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

put it away in the cupboard mate, you don't need it. Maybe check it monthly, or weekly if you really have to.


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

That's weird. Nardil is supposed to lower your blood pressure, not raise it. Bring that up with your doctor.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

is that after dosing though sighsigh? or over duration?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

it just happens only right after when I take my dose it happens after 10 mins then my blood pressure goes back to normal after 10 mins again. pretty low like 97/75 . I think because its the high dose I take 90mg. what u take sight? Hopefully this is just a side effect and it goes over.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

umm anyone else getting this loud tinnitus from Nardil that lasts like 5 minutes? It will just come randomly .


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> umm anyone else getting this loud tinnitus from Nardil that lasts like 5 minutes? It will just come randomly .


Actually just got that last night out of the blue a little while after taking Nardil lol. Completely normal and should lessen over time. Hasn't happened to me for months except for last night.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Got that tinnitus side-effect when i was on Zoloft for the first time, it also only lasted short time.

My grandfather had chronic tinnitus, which must be really annoying!!!
He got it at a shooting range,when he was an instructor and bent down to help someone that fired of a round from a mauser rifle. FYI:wink2:


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I have chronic tinnitus in my left ear, have done for about 7 years, maybe I should try cleaning my ears ? Although I think codeine started it off.

You get used to it in the end.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> I have chronic tinnitus in my left ear, have done for about 7 years, maybe I should try cleaning my ears ? Although I think codeine started it off.
> 
> You get used to it in the end.


Really one does,interesting. Ive only had it for short periods, but kinda pictured one would go mad or such after some time (ok that might be abit excessive)

Do you have that high pitch "ultrasound" ?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

it was difficult the first few months as I was waiting for it to go, thought I had a brain tumour and was going deaf but eventually you don't pay attention to it. 

I only really notice it when meditating or its quiet obviously. Generally I notice it as a high pitch sound but when i focus on it during meditation for example you can hear it go up and down, almost like a car alarm, whether its my pulse doing it, I dont know. When there is a sudden noise close by to that side like "DADDY" it goes up a bit in volume and certain meds can increase it such as opiates and dex but nardil doesn't.

Anyway thanks for mentioning it as its ringing like a good un now


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

this is how i store my nardil..


http://imgur.com/HFvxDNE


let me know if im storing it wrong..... its in the top right corner .


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

you shouldn't stand it upright kurdish, didn't they tell you that ? Just keep it away from the lettuce.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Anyway thanks for mentioning it as its ringing like a good un now


Sure NP! :wink2:


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> I have chronic tinnitus in my left ear, have done for about 7 years, maybe I should try cleaning my ears ? Although I think codeine started it off.
> 
> You get used to it in the end.


You could give this a go. Supposedly it works really well for people who have constant tinnitus.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

"HOLY ****! I've had tinnitus for the last 2 years. All ringing all the time. Now nothing!!! What the hell just happened?????"

Thanks for that BTS, I`ll give that a go and report back. If it works, I am forever in your debt, within reason of course


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

upright ? LOL this is the first time I hear this why hasnt anyone told me >.<..
Why cant it be upright? didnt say anywhere on the leaflet . How should it be than?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

haha kurdish, the label should point in the direction of orions belt.

BTS, it works, complete silence but only for few mins :-( will keep at though


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> haha kurdish, the label should point in the direction of orions belt.
> 
> BTS, it works, complete silence but only for few mins :-( will keep at though


Nah you should be pointing it towards the big dipper. Less weight gain that way lol.

Glad it works!. Its temporary but if you keep repeating it a couple of times each day it should hopefully keep the tinnitus at bay! 
Its something to do with a few small muscles in your ear that are responsible for tightening/loosening the tympanic membrane (eardrum). People with chronic tinnitus have an hyperactive muscle which overreacts to the point that the tensing of the muscle is what's causing the tinnitus.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

I noticed some Nardil users replying in this thread so i try to post my Q here.

For you folks who responded well to Nardil, did you also respond well to Benzo???
And Vice versa.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

how do you meant mate ? Long term benzo use ? 

Benzos always did the trick for me for anxiety but nothing for depression, made things worse on that front.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> how do you meant mate ? Long term benzo use ?
> 
> Benzos always did the trick for me for anxiety but nothing for depression, made things worse on that front.


Im thinking more along the lines that if BZ doesn't work that good, would Nardil work, or would it work less good...

Yeah i know all about GABA-Transaminase and such.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

you dont feel (well i dont) the GABA effect of nardil like you do when you've just dropped some benzo's but nardil slapped my anxiety all round the street then booted it up the arse as it ran away - something bzd's couldn't do. Maybe its the combined effect of all those brain chemicals that make nardil great for anxiety?

ok clever clogs, explain GABA-Transaminase to me without looking at Stahl


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Stahl.... Glen Baker is the one to look for then... GABA-Transaminase is an enzyme that breaks down GABA. Thus elevates GABA lvls.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Maybe its the combined effect of all those brain chemicals that make nardil great for anxiety?


Yeah that kinda make sence, Ive noticed that my anxiety and Social Phobia get worse when feeling down/depressed. Tired.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

thanks professor


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

watertouch said:


> Stahl.... Glen Baker is the one to look for then... GABA-Transaminase is an enzyme that breaks down GABA. Thus elevates GABA lvls.


Also, at less pharmaceutical level (I'm not a walking encyclopedia like you anyway), I think benzo are pretty useless for people who match these two criteria:
- they have both SA and depression (1)
- chronic depression is one of the reason they have SA (2)

It is often emphasized that SA is very likely to cause chronic depression. It's true but I think that among people who had SA and dysthymia, the latter can also be considered as a cause of the former, especially when you have developped it during early childhood. I have already read stuff about how people who suffer from life-long dysthymia are likely to have low-self esteem. I think they are also way more likely to have SA. You grow up feeling constantly less enthusiastic and interested in things that others and it leads you to involve less in social interactions and various activities. Plus it makes you feel different from others and cause shame, which is a very toxic emotion on the long term. Your fear from others only gets worse with years and it lowers your mood even more. It's a viscous circle.

Nothing groundbreaking here and it is surely not the case for everyone but I still think it is worth mentioning.

That is why even if benzo does not "work" for you, in the sense that even if your anxiety "initially" decrease because of it, depression/lack of motivation is still there and since it's an underlying cause of SA, well the anti-anxiety effect might be kind of canceled. While nardil may be efficient because it will both bring down your anxiety level and your depression, thus breaking the circle.

So I don't think you should decide nardil is not for you only because you don't like benzo.

Benzo are completely worthless against my SA, even if it's light to moderate SA.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

you gonna try and get nardil watertouch ?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> thanks professor


I get this feeling you already knew that :grin2:

Now, if there only was a pill that worked like alcohol.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> you gonna try and get nardil watertouch ?


Naa maybe, the Dr at the Clinic i go to, took back his prescribtion of Parnate, and didn't wanna refill it n such...
"luckily", the Clinic shuts down after the end of this year. 
Have no idea where im gonna end up... But hopefully the new Dr will prescribe it...

(i read my chart/journal, they discussed me in the "team-group" and had a plan to put me on SSRI)...:wtf

Been there done that, its almost insulting.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

@Cassoulet94
I think that model sums it up pretty good.

Altough:


> "- they have both SA and depression (1)"


Here can actually Benzo both work for depression and SA.. BZ can of course also worsen depression so its different for everyone.


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

watertouch said:


> @*Cassoulet94*
> I think that model sums it up pretty good.
> 
> Altough:
> ...


Yeah true psychiatric drugs effects are so unpredictable that almost almost every attempts at designing some kind of "models" can be proveen wrong, especially because of oversimplification, difference between individuals and, also, our currently quite limited understanding of how the brain works...


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

ssri, they are deluded aren't they ?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> ssri, they are deluded aren't they ?


Yeah either them or me!.:wink2: :grin2:

I tried my first SSRI (of several), back in 2004.
Ive tried a combination of the TCA-clomipramine+SSRI.

I doubt SSRI will work this time around.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

I had a headshock when I was sleeping .. felt like i was punched in the face .woke me up .
probably caused by nardil. http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=54754


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> I had a headshock when I was sleeping .. felt like i was punched in the face .woke me up .


Interesting, where was the pain located? and how long after waking up did it last?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

watertouch said:


> Interesting, where was the pain located? and how long after waking up did it last?


no pain lol. it was weird as hell. I was sleeping and all of sudden it felt like someone punched me in the face. I was like wtf was that? I looked it up on the internet and it turns out to be some kind of brain zap or something im guessing from Nardil. What else can it be. I woke up like immediatly and it was like i got punched with electric in the face lasted like 3-5 seconds.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

@KurdishFella 
Yeah probable MAOIs are abit weird. + they mess with the Rem-sleep.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Another question... is nardil more powerfull than alcohol when it works for social anxiety?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> Another question... is nardil more powerfull than alcohol when it works for social anxiety?


Social anxiety.. Alcohol in to much amount, just makes people do some really stupid stuff, or fall aslepp, in the snow, and freeze to death..


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## pgenki (Apr 5, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> Anyone else have this when you take your Nardil dose your blood pressure will go up a lot after 5-10 minutes and then go back down again after like 15-20 mins? Whenever I take my dose of 90mg I breath fast, I feel tired, my chest feels weird and I get a odd feeling in my head. And I go to bed and I end up sleeping.. today I slept 5ish hours.


I get this occasionally. Try splitting up your dose 3/3 and take them 2 hours apart instead.

Personally I think it is related to the enteric coating and brand. I have always had the best results with Gavis generic phenelzine. Name-brand and "greenstone" (which is still made by pfizer) both seem weaker and occasionally give me a hypertensive reaction.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

pgenki said:


> I get this occasionally. Try splitting up your dose 3/3 and take them 2 hours apart instead.
> 
> Personally I think it is related to the enteric coating and brand. I have always had the best results with Gavis generic phenelzine. Name-brand and "greenstone" (which is still made by pfizer) both seem weaker and occasionally give me a hypertensive reaction.


hmm splitting up my 90mg? My doctor wanted me to take 3 in the morning and 3 at night but ... I feel like splitting up the dose would make it a lot more ineffective... since im not taking 90mg anymore. im taking 45mg... which is what my brain would get used to and not the 90mg so in long term = less effective? I dont know .. im gonna stay on 90mg at once anyway dont wanna take any chances of getting less effect.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

SFC01 said:


> you shouldn't stand it upright kurdish, didn't they tell you that ? Just keep it away from the lettuce.


Naughty SFC01 



watertouch said:


> (i read my chart/journal, they discussed me in the "team-group" and had a plan to put me on SSRI)...:wtf
> 
> Been there done that, its almost insulting.


Absolutely insulting.



KurdishFella said:


> no pain lol. it was weird as hell. I was sleeping and all of sudden it felt like someone punched me in the face. I was like wtf was that? I looked it up on the internet and it turns out to be some kind of brain zap or something im guessing from Nardil. What else can it be. I woke up like immediatly and it was like i got punched with electric in the face lasted like 3-5 seconds.


I actually occasionally get a weird electrical shock sensation in my brain when falling asleep (it's quite startling and unpleasant). Not on any meds though. I assume its just some weird **** my brain does


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> Another question... is nardil more powerfull than alcohol when it works for social anxiety?


Seriously, what are these questions... You expect nardil to be some kind of magic pill that will turn you into a super human with zero inhibitions ? Because, big revelation, it's not. No medication will destroy social anxiety like alcohol does in high amount. But anyway a drug that would destroy all inhibition would not be a good one. And anyway such a drug would have an awful lot of undesirable effects, like alcohol have.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i wonder if a different nardil brand would work if this 1 ends up not working...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

anyone tried 105mg nardil? did u benefit? Imight try it wat i got to lose really.. i know for a fact nardil wont work now. 52-54 days bro... nardil is not gonna work lmao. almost 8 weeks


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I'm disappointed it hasn't worked for you mate, you could try 105mg, I have only ever done that occasionally. Give it another month Kurdish if you can, then maybe try to get parnate.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Before you stop nardil, just thinking Kurdish, do you think your doctor would go with maybe adding a lowish dose of a TCA with your nardil


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

you can add stimulant like modafinil or ritalin to your nardil. 
it will help with mood and energy and possibly enchance antidepressant effect.


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## Captainmycaptain (Sep 23, 2012)

Cassoulet94 said:


> Seriously, what are these questions... You expect nardil to be some kind of magic pill that will turn you into a super human with zero inhibitions ? Because, big revelation, it's not. No medication will destroy social anxiety like alcohol does in high amount. But anyway a drug that would destroy all inhibition would not be a good one. And anyway such a drug would have an awful lot of undesirable effects, like alcohol have.


It did work for me when it worked. It was like a magic pill that completely destroyed by social anxiety. I am not sure why 90 mg is not working for the OP. I guess we all respond differently.


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

Nardil really does work well for GAD and social anxiety, but if your main problem is depression (fatigue, low energy, lack of motivation) then adding small dose of stimulant could be very helpful.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

wat will a low dose of tca do ?? also I got like 2 bottles left well 3 but the 3rd is almost out so I have to use them up anyway . which will last like 35days or somth so im giving it that much more. 

my main problem is social anxiety.... thought this said powerfull med would help. I mean if nardil doesent work what do you really do? ur basically fked... hopefully parnate or some other maoi will work.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

not sure of the exact mechanism of adding a TCA to nardil but there are studies to suggest that people who have not responded to either med on its own, find that when combined they work well for them.

Something like nortrptyline or amitriptyline (but not imipramine or clomipramine as they can be dangerous with maoi). 

The start of this year I was taking 30mg to 50mg of amitriptyline for a elbow pain but it also enhanced my mood really nicely along with nardil.. 

Hopefully parnate would work, but after that I`m not sure what else there is out there mate.


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

you still have many things to try. barbiturates, tianeptine, ketamine, parnate...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

most of those dont exist in sweden zeusko i think.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

ever since i started nardil i barely drink any water/liquid.. anyone else experience this?


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

KurdishFella said:


> anyone tried 105mg nardil? did u benefit? Imight try it wat i got to lose really.. i know for a fact nardil wont work now. 52-54 days bro... nardil is not gonna work lmao. almost 8 weeks


What kind of side effects have you experienced so far?

There are some reports on here of Nardil not working until the third month.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

sighsigh said:


> What kind of side effects have you experienced so far?
> 
> There are some reports on here of Nardil not working until the third month.


fatigue, sleep problems, i sleep like only 3-4 hour or less 3 times a day and wake up middle of the night very annoying. ereticle dysfunction. weight gain. constipation. hard to pee. no energy. high blood pressure when i take my nardil but goes over after 10 mins to low blood pressure again. too tired to think now lol so im leave it at that


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

KurdishFella said:


> fatigue, sleep problems, i sleep like only 3-4 hour or less 3 times a day and wake up middle of the night very annoying. ereticle dysfunction. weight gain. constipation. hard to pee. no energy. high blood pressure when i take my nardil but goes over after 10 mins to low blood pressure again. too tired to think now lol so im leave it at that


These are all standard sides, so at least there's no absorption problem. Ken Gillman believes that the lowering of blood pressure plays a key part in Nardil's therapeutic effect. Since that is happening to you, I think that is reason to continue with the medication for at least another month before calling it quits.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

took 105mg. havent feelt much different yet tbh. maybe it comes later who knows.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> took 105mg. havent feelt much different yet tbh. maybe it comes later who knows.


How did the whole spreading out the dose over the day work? or 3pills in the morning and 3pill in the afternoon?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

watertouch said:


> How did the whole spreading out the dose over the day work? or 3pills in the morning and 3pill in the afternoon?


I never spread the dose. I always take the whole dose together.


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

What kicked started Nardil for me was when I was taking my 4 pills as 1 morning and 3 evening for a little while. Then following day I took all 4 in the morning which was when Nardil kicked in and started working and has been to this day. 

Now I had already taken 4 pill in the morning in previous weeks from when i started Nardil. But this time around I was slowly alternating the timing of when to take them. Giving each dose change a couple of days trial so i could asses how it affected the day time tiredness. At first it was 4 all in the morning. Then after a while I changed it to 2 morning 2 evening and then finally 1 morning and 3 evening. The subtle changes was allowing my body to adapt to the doses timing. So when I flipped it around from 1 Morning 3 evening, straight to all four in the morning. It must have gave it a kick and knocked it in gear. So I presume.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

^
I need to kick back on the booze! :wink2:
(naa really im a mess)


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

my blood pressure is lower than its ever been since i took 105mg today first time. 80/56


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Drink coffee


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> my blood pressure is lower than its ever been since i took 105mg today first time. 80/56


Are you ok buddy!???


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I would go back to 90mg kurdish, and split the dose a little bit.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

If I feel like im dying I will go back to 90mg.. gonna take 105mg the last month of nardil. Or if i feel going back to 90mg I will. Im already excited to try parnate... hopefully that will do something... btw I just found out i weight 95kg... damn nardil. 209 lbs for you americans.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

you got the go ahead for parnate ?


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

The simplest solution to low blood pressure is to drink salt water.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

@sfc not yet but im sure i will get the parnate i mean why wouldnt i...
my nardil smells worse than ever ... smells and taste like a farm with bunch of animals. 
still on 105mg . no big difference yet.

(EDIT) wow my blood pressure went up to 172/84 when i take my 105mg , maybe i should go back to 90mg.......


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

yeah, dont see why you couldn't switch mate.

Go back to 90mg, don't need to do 105mg if its ****ing around with your blood pressure, best be on the safe side.

Not sure why your nardil is smelling worse though, I mean its not great to start with but shouldn't get worse with time. Sure your fridge is ok ? How cold is outside at the moment round your way?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

it's around 7C where I live (45F). i have no idea if my fridgeis ok.. imagine if it was my fridge fault all the time nardil not working.. lol .. doubt it tho since my blood pressure goes up and i get side effect so.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i think 105mg is helping with my depression a bit. but that always happens when i increase my nardil dose. it helps depression for a few days a tiny bit than goes away. hmm i might keep taking 105mg .. damn


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

Kurdish I think 105mg is a bad idea for Nardil.

Nardil does not boost GABA directly. Nardil's metabolite boosts GABA instead.

And how is this metabolite produced? When Nardil is metabolized by MAO! 

In other words, theoretically if you reduce MAO too low you will not receive any of the GABA benefits from Nardil.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yeah true.. maybe thats why 90mg aint workin for me ?should i go lower? anyway im back on 90mg again

on 90mg my blood pressure only goes to 156/80 after the dose than back down again. much better than when it was all over at 172 on 105mg.. my heart almost felt like it would pop out my chest


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

105mg sounds like a hell of a lot. Where are you obtaining this from?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

my doctor who hell else.... he doesent know i take 105mg but idc since it aint working anyway .im back on 90mg so chill ur balls please.
i was thinking of taking 3 morning and 3 night to avoid the blod pressure go high. is this a good idea or less effective


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i mailed gillman he said its possible i need 120mg a day. i might try it.. 4 in the morning and 4 at night.

this guy say he took 120mg and he heard nardil can be effective even after 150mg+ and he said he has heard of 240mg nardil being taken..
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030301/msgs/205921.html


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

give 120mg a go but yeah, definitely split the dose as you mention given your issues with blood pressure fluctuations.


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

Kurdish that guy you cited also said this:
"I'm not too concerned - I've heard of 240mg Nardil and 400mg Zoloft being taken." <- this guy just lost any credibility he may have had with me.
You may be right about needing a higher dose. Just be careful about what you read on the internet, is all. This forum has some very knowledgeable people but there is a lot of misinformation out there.


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## Schneegestein (Mar 22, 2016)

well... god bless your liver


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

what r signs my liver is getting hurt?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

turning yellow maybe, dying ? don't know what the signs are but you can get liver functions tests at the docs quite easily


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## Blue Table Space (Nov 5, 2013)

Just curious. What would you say is a good recommended time to get your Liver checked ? every 3 months or so ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

damn im getting these brain zaps a lot in my sleep feel like im getting punched. and im also getting these random twitching movements when im awake. still on 90mg. im switching to 120mg tommorow (4 at morning and4 at night) i got 2 bottles of nardil left will last me abour 25 days if i take 120mg daily. btw 65-67 days on nardil yayayayayya!


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## pgenki (Apr 5, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> hmm splitting up my 90mg? My doctor wanted me to take 3 in the morning and 3 at night but ... I feel like splitting up the dose would make it a lot more ineffective... since im not taking 90mg anymore. im taking 45mg... which is what my brain would get used to and not the 90mg so in long term = less effective? I dont know .. im gonna stay on 90mg at once anyway dont wanna take any chances of getting less effect.


I've experienced hypertensive episodes by taking Nardil all at once. It will potentiate any pressors that may be present in your gut. It is dangerous to take 5+ Nardils as one large dose IMO.

You will NOT lose effect by splitting the dose even 12 hours apart. Nardil is a "day-after-the-dose" drug. It inhibits MAO, and inhibits its own metabolism, and has a lengthy half life to begin with. It isn't a drug that has a large immediate effect dependant on CMAX, but a slightly delayed effect dependant on overall MAO and GABA-T inhibition.

Once MAO is inhibited, it still takes time for that to lead to higher neurotransmitters. Which is why sleep is very important with Nardil, because that is when your brain replenishes your neurotransmitters. Eating good variety of protein is also very important. I recommend taking a scoop of a quality whey protein powder before bed each night, and aim for 6+ hours of sleep, preferably 8-9.

Also, doses beyond 1mg/kg of body weight are unlikely to be any better and will just make the side effects worst. Nardil inhibits like 92% of MAO-A at 1mg/kg. That last 8% probably isn't what is failing you. Augmenting Nardil makes much more sense than heroic-dosing it.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

pgenki said:


> I've experienced hypertensive episodes by taking Nardil all at once. It will potentiate any pressors that may be present in your gut. It is dangerous to take 5+ Nardils as one large dose IMO.
> 
> You will NOT lose effect by splitting the dose even 12 hours apart. Nardil is a "day-after-the-dose" drug. It inhibits MAO, and inhibits its own metabolism, and has a lengthy half life to begin with. It isn't a drug that has a large immediate effect dependant on CMAX, but a slightly delayed effect dependant on overall MAO and GABA-T inhibition.
> 
> ...


no im never gonna take 120mg at once. i took 105mg and i regret that ****. 90mg at once is a lot imo at once.
im splitting up the 120mg of course to 4 morning and 4 night. like 12 hours apart give or take.
but what do you think i should do? stay on 90mg with the rest 1 month supply i got left and wish for the best? Or go for the 120mg like dr gillman said i i probably would need to take.. 4 morning and 4 night.


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## Sweeto (Jul 21, 2015)

Kurdish, if nardil doesnt work for you, you should probably try opiates wich could be prescribed off label if you have atypical and resistent SA. My mood was lifted by tramadol very much.


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## pgenki (Apr 5, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> no im never gonna take 120mg at once. i took 105mg and i regret that ****. 90mg at once is a lot imo at once.
> im splitting up the 120mg of course to 4 morning and 4 night. like 12 hours apart give or take.
> but what do you think i should do? stay on 90mg with the rest 1 month supply i got left and wish for the best? Or go for the 120mg like dr gillman said i i probably would need to take.. 4 morning and 4 night.


Depends on your body weight. How are your sleep habits since starting Nardil frequently causes insomnia?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

pgenki said:


> Depends on your body weight. How are your sleep habits since starting Nardil frequently causes insomnia?


my sleep is terrible i keep waking up all the time after 1-3 hours depends and I sleep like 3 -4 times a day.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Kurdish, think pgenki is spot on with his post here, going higher and higher probably won't help too much so I would also recommend as I did earlier adding another med such as nortriptyline, maybe even amitriptyline (cant remember if you said these are unavailable in Sweden), or even a low dose of a anti psychotic as it may help with your sleep and also kick start things for you, though wait gain might become more of an issue. Maybe switching to parnate as you have already spoke about.

Lack of proper sleep will impact your mood heavily if you don't get enough, and may even hide any benefits you are getting from nardil. Would suggest you try and get on top of this asap either thru meds or sleep hygiene. Maybe meds to start with, then sleep hygiene (I dont mean hygiene = being clean btw)


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Dr Ken Gillman said I quote ''Is poss that you need 120 per day'' to me. I mean shouldnt I give it a try atleast since its coming from him?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

yeah of course try it, but augmenting with another med (not when you are taking 120mg though) might be another way of seeing some improvement especially.

Are you able to get anything from your doc to get your sleeping back on track as that will help a lot?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

for sleeping? uhh what kind of meds are there for that? I dont meet him until like 1 month so its too late then anyway. I really wanna try Parnate tbh. I have never heard of people adding another med to nardil to make it work. I cant help but think that wont do anything.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

there are studies to suggest that combining with TCA's work. 

For sleep, well you can get over the counter stuff but some have supposed interaction's with maoi's like diphenhyramine but I take it occasionally and all ok. Once you see the doc, then quetiapine is good for sleep, other antipsychotics. Trazodone works for some, but not me for sleep, doxepin (TCA), z drugs like zopiclone but they may not help you stay alseep, temazapam, nitrazapam (might not get the last 2). Etizolam used to help me everytime but banned in UK now.

Need to be careful with most sleep meds though, especially the z drugs ie dont take too much.

I`ve been on a few in my time but always end up back with quetiapine for any sleep problems as it usually works well.


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

Kurdish when Dr. Gillman says it is "possible" you need 120 mg this is not the same as saying it is likely.

He was always very logical and skeptical when we spoke. Even if 99% of people respond to 90mg or 1mg / kg, you might be that 1%. 

The quick and dirty solution to sleep is to get over the counter antihistamines. Succinate is powerful. If this works there is no need for fancy prescription drugs. Succinate doesn't work for me, I am currently having a love affair with Trazodone which makes me look forward to sleeping every night and waking up refreshed. But as SFC says Trazodone doesn't work for everyone, you either love it or hate it.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Yeah, I have loads of trazodone at home, and I can take 100mg in the morning if I want with no drowsiness.
*
Gillman fan*, how long have you been taking the traz for ? I was up to 150mg a night for a couple months but all of sudden one morning I felt a bit flat, not depressed or anything but just couldn't be bothered with anything, no motivation at all which I had never had since being on nardil.


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

So you are saying you stopped taking Trazodone and then this effect went away?

I have been taking ~75 each night for maybe two weeks. I am kind of experiencing that apathy now but I assumed it was just my dopamine-hating brain and Parnate. 
Based on the receptor stuff I don't see how Trazodone could be causing apathy. And that is not a recorded side effect. 
mCPP is the bad metabolite of Trazodone but its half life is very short, it shouldn't bother you for the entire day.
The only mechanism that I can speculate on is that 5HT2A blockade causes more of those receptors to grow in response, so when Trazodone wears off maybe your 5HT2A side effects are worse.

Anyway I will keep your post in mind. I may have to start ramping up the sleep meds if my med cocktail grows more stimulating.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

yeah, it stopped within days of lowering dose so I quit and went back to feeling normal. It would start mid morning and continue throughout the day. I also started to to go to bed a lot earlier because I was getting so bored of doing anything.

Doesn't quetiapine do the same thing via 5ht2a blockade ? as when I was feeling this apathy on trazodone, if I ever took 50mg quetiapine or same dose of amitriptyline along with the traz I would feel much better the next day.

May well have been something else but it kind of hit straight away and stuck around for a few weeks until I lowered the dose and then quit.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

do you have to wait 2 weeks when you stop nardil before you can jump on parnate? im gonna wait a few days atleast or 1 week.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I didn't kurdish, I swapped straight away, at most I think it would require a taper down to 15mg over a week and then start parnate. Not sure if there is any real need to leave it at 2 weeks, but I`m not a doctor


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

Traz has a "bad" metabolite, mCPP. Different people will have different amounts of this in their bloodstream depending on their metabolism.

mCPP is a potent 5HT2C AGONIST. However in the long run this wouldn't hurt you, because 5HT2C downregulates in response to both agonism and antagonism.
Per my research, blood levels of mCPP are 1-20% as high as Traz, not all traz is metabolized into mCPP. 

Honestly the half life of Traz and mCPP is short enough that it shouldn't affect you during the day if you are using it for sleep. Were you taking it during the day?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

finaly i got 6 hours sleep in more than 2 months first time. I felt so good. I don't know if it was cuz i split the dose? maybe i need to be sleeping to trigger the nardil to work? cuz i always only slept 2 hours -3 times a day so maybe it would have worked on 90mg if i just split it? damn i feel stupid now i should have listen to my doc..... I'm splitting 120mg right now yesterday was day 1 doing it. today is second day took my first dose taking second 60mg dose in 12 hours. But i do sleep better or maybe it was just a coincidence... I dunno. hopefully the sleeping part is what triggers nardil to work. its kind of weird to think about the thing that made nardil not work for me was a ****ing side effect. like really?!!?!? u do get less side effects if u split right? but that doesn't make sense to me since ur still taking the same dose just in different time. But if the side effects do lessen shouldn't the effectiveness of nardil too? Man I'm confused as hell. whatever. COMON NARDIL LETS GOOOOO .


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Thats good to hear mate, sleep won't be the trigger for nardil to work but it will allow you to feel the benefits.

Dont worry too much about how you take nardil, just keep splitting am and pm.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

do u get less side effects when u split dose?


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Yup sleep is super important for mental health stuff tbh, fingers crossed being well rested makes the difference for you Kurdish


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Regarding Trazodone i once again (i once got Priapism not from traz but still) feel i should qoute Dr.Mariano on it.

TRAZODONE:

I generally would not give Trazodone to any man who isn't over 45 years-old, who doesn't have a Total Testosterone under 300. Any other combination has too high a risk of developing *priapism *requiring emergency surgery. And it can happen with as little as 25 mg of Trazodone.

Trazodone does work well for sleep. It is a mild antidepressant, thus higher doses are necessary. It usually does not cause agitation or restlessness. At higher doses, however, it can cause irregular heart beats and lightheadedness - thus one has to watch out for falling. It is a mild aphrodisiac for women, helping improve vaginal secretions when aroused.


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

It is a 1 in 6000 risk, per Wikipedia, and if you quickly go to ER it shouldn't do any permanent damage.

Besides, the risk of priapism is highest when you start the med, but then it goes down after time once you continue using it regularly.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Stahl seems abit more optimistic in his prescribers guide 1 in 8000, he also mentions an early indication for priapism (thought i should post it since i brought up the whole Priapism thing)


> • Priapism may occur in 1 in 8,000 men
> • Early indications of impending priapism
> may be slow penile detumescence when
> awakening from REM sleep


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

im so confused. i feel like im getting less side effects even tho im taking higher dose. this is second day on 120mg . doesent more side effects mean nardil is more likely to work? i feel like splitting the dose is ineffective. watever. gonna stay on 120mg for a week maybe than try 75mg at once. Never tried that dose..... or split 75mg idk


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

going back to 90mg . gonna split it too as i did with 120mg. feel like that high of a dose is just waste of time and bad for my body.

(edit) I got some weird red stretch mark with red pimples I think nardil did it its on my forearm never had stuff there..


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

@watertouch, so what are you saying, *us* younger dudes shouldn't take trazodone?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> @*watertouch* , so what are you saying, *us* younger dudes shouldn't take trazodone?


No/well kinda, but its more like Dr. Mariano says that *you *younger dudes with high Testosterone have increased risk of getting the side-effect priapism!

You having tried it, and not getting it are probable in the clear.

But getting Priapism, that was a real scare!:afr


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

yes, *us* youngsters are filled to the brim with testosterone 

When I wake up for a piss in the middle of the night (yeah, I know that's rare for us young men), I do have to force it downwards to ensure I dont piss all over the bathroom


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> yes, *us* youngsters are filled to the brim with testosterone
> 
> When I wake up for a piss in the middle of the night (yeah, I know that's rare for us young men), I do have to force it downwards to ensure I dont piss all over the bathroom


Maybe time for that prostat exame you've been looking forward to! :grin2:


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Maybe time for that prostat exame you've been looking forward to! :grin2:


What, after one of your posts on the subject last time - no chance


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> What, after one of your posts on the subject last time - no chance


Haha Doc apparently hanged it right of, back on the wall, and then continued the conversation with my bro, the smell of *** spread in the room.:grin2:


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

70 days 

Hope is still there! (not really)


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

good god mate, gutted it hasn't worked for you - when are you going to ask for parnate ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

12 januray i better get it im meeting a new doc so im kinda worried i wont get it . old one quit.

im on 90mg split 3 morning and 3 night btw. yes there is actually a little bit less side effects.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

taking an maoi now will probably help with the new doc - just thinking whether you tell him nardil is working but dont like the side effects or the truth - the truth may put him off trying out parnate. 

How is your sleep ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

sleep is better definitely. but sometimes its bad again but it has definitely improved since splitting.


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

That truly sucks man.

The nice thing about Parnate is you can keep on pushing the dose forever and the side effects seem to get better the higher you push. Not sure how it works in Sweden and if your doctor will allow that.

If your doctor wants to Rx a maximum of 40-60 mg Parnate I honestly think you are better off sticking to Nardil and... hoping.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Should I just give up? its been 70 days. My 3rd bottle is almost finished im thinking of since its just a few left i will finnish the 3rd bottle which has like 1 week left of tablets i think and my last 4rth just keep it in the fridge if i ever decide to try nardil again in the future. tired of these side effects. i think thats all im getting from nardil.


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## sighsigh (Nov 9, 2010)

What's your luteinizing hormone level and testosterone level in the same blood reading? If you have a low LH level that would indicate secondary hypogonadism, in which case you can buy an aromatase inhibitor like exemestane from an online pharmacy and see if taking it improves your symptoms. The exemestane will increase your testosterone if you are secondary. If you find that augmenting your T levels puts your symptoms into remission, then telling your doctor that fact might change his mind about prescribing TRT.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

should i be worried im constantly getting these electric shocks is how I would describe it and I kind of jump out of bed, it's mostly when im trying to sleep. Also I had my liver check it was normal.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

mm looks delicious


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

cut your fingernails fella, you'll be telling us you paint them next 

Any positives yet ?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> cut your fingernails fella, you'll be telling us you paint them next


I had a "kurdishfella" in my highschool class, he also had long nails... FYI.

Btw, checked your prostate yeat?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Btw, checked your prostate yeat?


Yeah, got my dad to do it, he promised me he was qualified and he wouldn't lie to me. Although, I`ve never seen the technique he used before.

May ping you for a chat later mate, but I got a horrible feeling I`ve just taken 100mg quetiapine by mistake !! I haven't taken any for a while so may be flat out on my back in a mo.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Yeah, got my dad to do it, he promised me he was qualified and he wouldn't lie to me. Although, I`ve never seen the technique he used before.
> 
> May ping you for a chat later mate, but I got a horrible feeling I`ve just taken 100mg quetiapine by mistake !! I haven't taken any for a while so may be flat out on my back in a mo.


Hehe 100mg ok so maybe the day after tomorrow then :grin2:
Be carefull standing up to fast if you are not used to it!


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Hehe 100mg ok so maybe the day after tomorrow then :grin2:
> Be carefull standing up to fast if you are not used to it!


Yep, I`ve definitely taken it, currently trying to fight off the drowsiness ! I only got them out as I wanted to count how many I had left, must have just necked them.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Yep, I`ve definitely taken it, currently trying to fight off the drowsiness ! I only got them out as I wanted to count how many I had left, must have just necked them.


Yeah they work fast... Luckily its somewhat close to when normal people go to bed.:wink2:


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

should i go down to 75mg or 60mg split, is there a chance lower dose might work? since i be getting more sleep and less side effects. atm im barely getting any sleep and i feel sick like im poisoned. honestly i cant wait until the nardil runs out.. less then 2 weeks left ;/

82 days on nardil now


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

if you are definitely going to stop you might as well start tapering down to zero, say drop 15mg every few days - that way you will be able to start any new medication when you see the doc.


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

There is something very wrong about a man with fingernails that long.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

you wanna see my right big toe nail, I get chased by ivory poachers for it !!


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## Captainmycaptain (Sep 23, 2012)

Kurdishfella, have you considered changing brands of Nardil? I was also on Archimedes for a short time and didn't notice it doing much. I switched over to Gavis Nardil and it feels quite a bit stronger.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yeah i thought about it but i dont wanna waste more time tbh. im trying parnate, emsam or Moclobemide next.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

I would advice *not *to ask for Aurorix/moclobemide. Because your Dr will probably prescribe it, they do Anything to avoid having to prescribe these unknown,licens requiring, dangerous MAOIs.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i keep forgetting i am on a diet restriction... maybe the diet restriction only affects you if nardil works . nardil doesent work so im eating watever i want


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

not one of your brightest idea's fella


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

you're the man fella!


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## UKguy (Sep 30, 2013)

If Nardil isn't working I would be surprised if Moclobemide did, but of course everyone is different. 

Parnate? Is Marplan (Isocarboxazid) used any more?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

guys say i did try a different nardil brand which one should I try? which is supposed to be the strongest? Im meeting my doc on 12 jan so please let me know before then. is it gavis?

btw if there isnt gavis avalibal which other nardil brand should i try?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I would ask for parnate first Kurdish, not sure this brand thing has legs really.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> i keep forgetting i am on a diet restriction... maybe the diet restriction only affects you if nardil works . nardil doesent work so im eating watever i want


Oh god no. Please.



SFC01 said:


> I would ask for parnate first Kurdish, not sure this brand thing has legs really.


I agree. Would be really peculiar if a different brand had this kind of effect. Not ruling it out, but seems really odd. Would try Parnate as well.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Out of interest, since a few Nardil guys seem to be in here, how bad is the weight gain have you found on Nardil? Is it an appetite increase jobbie, or metabolic (or both) or water weight?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

well is gavis strongest or nah?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

splendidbob said:


> Out of interest, since a few Nardil guys seem to be in here, how bad is the weight gain have you found on Nardil? Is it an appetite increase jobbie, or metabolic (or both) or water weight?


I never put on weight with Nardil and have lost quite a bit of the old blubber in the last year, and thats even whilst taking quetiapine and amitriptyline at times as well.

If anything, I would say it would be appetite increase in my experience, as sometimes when I jump up to 90mg for a bit, i do get hungry for a few days, but I`ve heard people mention all 3 of your above as reasons for nardil weight gain.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> I never put on weight with Nardil and have lost quite a bit of the old blubber in the last year, and thats even whilst taking quetiapine and amitriptyline at times as well.
> 
> If anything, I would say it would be appetite increase in my experience, as sometimes when I jump up to 90mg for a bit, i do get hungry for a few days, but I`ve heard people mention all 3 of your above as reasons for nardil weight gain.


Hehe i was advised not to go on Nardil, and Stick to Parnate and Benzo by an "Expert", don't know why i use the " signs, he is the *expert*!..

So im trying to cut weight to be able to try Nardil... (i cheat of course with T3 and, but yeah....):grin2:


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Hehe i was advised not to go on Nardil, and Stick to Parnate and Benzo by an "Expert", don't know why i use the " signs, he is the *expert*!..
> 
> So im trying to cut weight to be able to try Nardil... (i cheat of course with T3 and, but yeah....):grin2:


Yes, I heard about your - you too tubby for nardil advice


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Yes, I heard about your - you too tubby for nardil advice


Hehe Its muscles in dormant my friend! :grin2:


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Hehe Its muscles in dormant my friend! :grin2:


Sorry yes, tubby in the UK means extremely muscular !!


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

lol. We need a stickied post: NARDIL may not be right for you if you are a FATASS.


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## rm123 (Mar 21, 2016)

I haven't gained weight on Nardil either, even though I practically live on chocolate now & am too fatigued to exercise (v depressing). But my pdoc is considering putting me on abilify and it has so many of the same side effects as Nardil like constipation that i can't imagine it being useful, on top of being worried about my metabolism and sex drive being slowed right down.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

all i got was a diff nardil brand something with the name Link . cant get gavis in sweden. any idea about this nardil brand? and i got Seroquel . new doctor said its good for social anxiety and depression (also sleep) that it balance the chemicals in your brain or some ****. im pretty mad right now. gonna switch doctor asap.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Whats wrong with what the new doc said ? 

quetiapine works really well for me along with nardil so give it a go.

How much quetiapine and are you supposed to take it at night ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

1 at night 50mg. is the max dose 750mg? im thinking of increasing it cuz im switching doc anyway. also any idea about Nardil LINK?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

no idea about Nardil LINK, never heard of it.

Dont go high on quetiapine as it does different stuff at different dosages, probably stuff you really dont need or want.

50mg at night will be fine, at least to start with as any higher on your first time will knock you the **** out well into the next morning, you can work your way up to 150mg to 200mg over time if you feel you need to.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

does it work for social anxiety or depression


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

no idea about SA but I feel it has helped me in the past with depression before I was on nardil but I was on a higher dose back then - up till recently I was taking 50mg a night and even at that dose with nardil, I did feel a nice uplift in mood.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i found this about the new nardil brand im gonna use: Nardil from Link Pharmaceuticals Ltd AUCKLAND, New Zealand
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this guy says nardil from The Pzizer Nardil is like taking sugar pills compared to the Link Nardil 
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...armaceuticals-ltd-auckland-new-zealand-34528/

Apparently this brand is equivalent to the 1950s version of nardil aka the "old nardil".

the Link and Concord brand of Nardil. These brands works slightly better than the Pfizer brand due to how it's mixed and manufactured.
Link or Concord, which are the Australian and U.K. brand. The manufacturing process is slightly more consistent with these brands than wConcord's.ith Pfizer's. Occasionally people will get a bad batch of Pfizer's, but I haven't heard any such occurrence with Link.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this is true that this version is better and will actually work for me. I dont have it yet will update when I do.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

well there is another thread right now about someone who took the pfizer brand, and it seems far from a sugar pill.

but hope this brand thing works out


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Dont go high on quetiapine as it does different stuff at different dosages, probably stuff you really dont need or want.
> 
> 50mg at night will be fine, at least to start with as any higher on your first time will knock you the **** out well into the next morning, you can work your way up to 150mg to 200mg over time if you feel you need to.


Yes @*KurdishFella* be carefull first time using it, I almost fainted when i got up from bed, when i tried while on Parnate!

The orthostatism got better really fast, like 2 days or so.

AND NO don't try higher doses, eg 700mg, it blocks D2 at those lvls... Say 150mg towards night could work, both against depression and anxiety, and D2 blocking effects should not be present, atleast not for that many hours...

I found it however to "cut" to much on my "happy" feelings, as compared to the effect it have on anxiety, But everyone is different!

It also really lowered the "stimulating" effects from Parnate...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

gonna take 50mg tonight and stay on it until i feel like i need to up the dose.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> gonna take 50mg tonight and stay on it until i feel like i need to up the dose.


Start with 25mg, and se how that goes... That whole "emotional flattening" effect isn't nice. 
But *not *everyone gets this, at doses of 100-150mg it also has antidepressant effect,

At 25, its mainly Antistiaminergic, Alpha1 blocking, and som anticholinercic effects... 
See Stahl's Essential psychopharmacology 4th ed, Pages 183-189

Ive been of quetiapine for like a month now, im still no really "back", then again i also feel like im slipping into a new depressive episode so....


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

turns out the quetiapin i have is 50mg i just noticed. so this is day 2 on quetianpin so i just need to keep taking 1 tablet. i took 1 yesterday i thought was 25mg but it was 50mg. i slept very well. hope i dont build tolerance or some **** and i hope this improve my mood .


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

is it the extended release stuff ? or instant ?

They don't do 50mg instant release over here in the UK, unless my doctor is lying to me.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

@KurdishFella
Hmm it seems like Seroquel is only avaible in Sweden in the Depot form /XR.

What was it prescribed for, and what is the "goal dose"


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

So I guess that means less drowsiness watertouch ? and can be used during the day ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

its extended form.

how do i know when i should increase my dose of 50mg?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

what did the doctor say about that Kurdish ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

about wat

also to update you guys on my nardil situation still waiting on the new brand to arrive.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

sorry, i mean what did the doc say about when to increase seroquel ?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> its extended form.
> 
> how do i know when i should increase my dose of 50mg?


Give it a couple of days to see how the Antihistamine effect, effects you and the anticholinergic effects, (At low doses it works like Theralen)

But check out that book: Stahl's essential psychopharmacology 4td ed pages 183-189...


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

he said increase it if you don't feel like it's helping anymore with your depression/mood/social anxiety & sleeping. I just wanted to know if I would get a different answer here since I don't trust doctors anymore


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> So I guess that means less drowsiness watertouch ? and can be used during the day ?


Yeah but its not allowed to be used for this/ or what it was prescribed for, here in Sweden... 
The XR version can be augmented against some forms of TRD, or bipolar depression...


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

@KurdishFella
Don't forget to do some bloodwork.
While you are at it, maybe check your liver, and testosterone, also weigh yourself tomorrow morning, when after waking up and taking a piss, or nr2 or so...

from fass:
http://www.fass.se/LIF/product?13&userType=2&nplId=20070914000049&docType=3


> _Metabol risk_
> Med tanke på den observerade risken för försämrad metabol profil, t.ex. förändringar i vikt, blodglukos (se Hyperglykemi) och lipider, som setts i kliniska studier, ska patienternas metabola parametrar mätas när behandlingen sätts in och förändringar av dessa parametrar ska regelbundet kontrolleras under hela behandlingstiden. Försämring av dessa parametrar ska hanteras enligt klinisk praxis


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

guys I havent been on nardil since saturday thats about 5 days. im getting nightmares, visions. talking to my self , kicking the wall, screaming, waking up every hour, in my sleep... Im afraid to sleep now. When will this stop? Im starting to lose weight now also. I might not try a different nardil brand after all. I doubt its the seroquel i have been getting causing this. is this some kind of withdrawal thing on nardil? also i might try emsam next!


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> guys I havent been on nardil since saturday thats about 5 days. im getting nightmares, visions. talking to my self , kicking the wall, screaming, waking up every hour, in my sleep... Im afraid to sleep now. When will this stop? Im starting to lose weight now also. I might not try a different nardil brand after all. I doubt its the seroquel i have been getting causing this. is this some kind of withdrawal thing on nardil? also i might try emsam next!


Yes it does sound like withdrawal, but also with the sleep "Rem-rebound"... This usually get better within 2 weeks.

Some of it could be from the Seroquel/quetiapine it can make people "cranky"/angry and such...

The whole "visions" and talking to yourself does however seems abit like something to worry about...

There are some reports on these types of effect upon withdrawal.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8354742

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3973072

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2324698


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Some of it could be from the Seroquel/quetiapine it can make people "cranky"/angry and such...


Yeah, the first few days taking quetiapine then make sure you dont make me angry, as you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

Got the same bit of anger on the first few days of taking this aripaprazole I`m having a go with right now, but all mellow yellow now


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Yeah, the first few days taking quetiapine then make sure you dont make me angry, as you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
> 
> Got the same bit of anger on the first few days of taking this aripaprazole I`m having a go with right now, but all mellow yellow now


Whats thats like, sitting on the sofa, eating chips/ frenche fries... Ehh always mix up the whole "fish n chips"...

Or is it just, a feeling of calm, yeat more happy/interesting in life and such?


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Whats thats like, sitting on the sofa, eating chips/ frenche fries... Ehh always mix up the whole "fish n chips"...
> 
> Or is it just, a feeling of calm, yeat more happy/interesting in life and such?


A, I dont eat fish and chips because my body is a temple !!

Yeah, just content, happy etc pretty much the nardil effect on me.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> A, I dont eat fish and chips because my body is a temple !!
> 
> Yeah, just content, happy etc pretty much the nardil effect on me.


Well that temple needs a renovation because its almost condemned.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

watertouch said:


> Well that temple needs a renovation because its almost condemned.


:grin2:

almost ? I wish.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

why did my blood pressure show 146/90? has nardil ****ed my bp forever now? i quit nardil like 9 days ago. Does your bp go up when you workout? can it be why? I had boxing training like 1 hour ago.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

KurdishFella said:


> why did my blood pressure show 146/90? has nardil ****ed my bp forever now? i quit nardil like 9 days ago. Does your bp go up when you workout? can it be why? I had boxing training like 1 hour ago.


yes Kurdish, exercise will increase BP for a short time afterwards and you will still have some MAO inhibition going on for a few days more, if the 2 week things is true.

How is the boxing going ? Have you been going a while now and does it help your mood?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

boxing is just something i do so i dont go full nuts but i do enjoy it. working out has never improved my mood. I.E i take medication. But seroquel seems to be doing me good ! wonder when the full effect is gonna kick in. can you belive it. I thought seroquel was a weak med but it compltely won over nardil for me. it hasdone more for me in 1 week than nardil ever did.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> boxing is just something i do so i dont go full nuts but i do enjoy it. working out has never improved my mood. I.E i take medication. But seroquel seems to be doing me good ! wonder when the full effect is gonna kick in. can you belive it. I thought seroquel was a weak med but it compltely won over nardil for me.


Its "rebound" since comming of the Nardil... Also the Quetiapine works as an NRI, and can raise BP...

It should get lower within a couple of weeks!


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

BTW, how are your mother doing?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

better but she always complain over something . like her back hurts etc. and shes only 40. she takes like 3-4 meds. i told her to ask her doc to lower it to 2. because she usually gets tired fast and sometimes like 1 -2 hour naps. her BP is better i think


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

KurdishFella said:


> better but she always complain over something . like her back hurts etc. and shes only 40. she takes like 3-4 meds. i told her to ask her doc to lower it to 2. because she usually gets tired fast and sometimes like 1 -2 hour naps. her BP is better i think


Hehe yeah women!!!, naa but maybe she sleeps bad at night, backpain can be from "poor posture" or such, maybe a supplement like MSM, or Glukosamine can help... If its really bothering her...

I still think you should follow around your dad and see how he lives and such... For his age... Man his BP was outstanding!!!!:grin2:


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

KurdishFella said:


> better but she always complain over something . like her back hurts etc. and shes only 40. she takes like 3-4 meds. i told her to ask her doc to lower it to 2. because she usually gets tired fast and sometimes like 1 -2 hour naps. her BP is better i think


Your mum is 40 Kurdish, jeez !!

Of course, that is still very young


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

KurdishFella said:


> boxing is just something i do so i dont go full nuts but i do enjoy it. working out has never improved my mood.


Do you spar or is it just heavy bag and pad work etc ? May get myself another heavy bag but I can only punch one handed now :-(, thankfully its my right and it bangs like Tyson.

Btw, I have got 2 arms, just that ones permantly injured - its not disfigured or anything , thats just my face.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

SFC01 said:


> Your mum is 40 Kurdish, jeez !!
> 
> Of course, that is still very young


Yeah, we are getting old, well you atleast! :grin2:HAHAHA... But ohh i remember when going out to like a rock pub, those "cougars" just happen to hang around there...
@KurdishFella , im not talking about your mom, so take no offence!... It is in no way any insult or such.... Nor do i think she would hang at sucha place and such!


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

@SFC01

spar, heavy bag, yeah but most important boxing techniques. thats what our trainer wants us to be very good at so we focus on that a lot. I love working on my defense.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

KurdishFella said:


> @*SFC01*
> 
> spar, heavy bag, yeah but most important boxing techniques. thats what our trainer wants us to be very good at so we focus on that a lot. I love working on my defense.


Cool, loved the technical aspect of boxing, footwork, defence and counters etc.

Oh and dont take the comment about your mum wrong, I meant she is very young because I`m that kind of age as well


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

if anyone cares. nardil didnt work, gave it 3 months.

should i try another nardil brand or just give up on nardil completely?

vote here: http://www.strawpoll.me/12233296

thanks


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## Gillman fan (Sep 24, 2016)

Kurdish you tried Nardil for a long time and suffered through a ton of side effects, taking them on the chin like a man. I am sorry it didn't work out for you.

I voted try Parnate. Parnate is better re: side effects (except insomnia) and works so, so much faster. You can basically bump the dose as fast as you want, depending on side effects, if they are severe you might want to wait a bit for them to improve before bumping the dose. But I always noticed the benefit of a dosage increase within 1-2 days. No three month waiting BS.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Yeah go for parnate


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

For me parnate took 25 days -7 days on 40mg- to have a noticable effect. And I could not up too fast either because of very strong fatigue and some low blood pressure. But yeah overall few side effects you should try it. Just follow the diet this time.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

@Cassoulet94 is it working for social anxiety? I have always followed the diet on my nardil so i dont know what you are talking about.


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> @*Cassoulet94* is it working for social anxiety? I have always followed the diet on my nardil so i dont know what you are talking about.


At one point you said you kept forgetting about it.

Depends on what you mean by "working". If you mean decreasing social anxiety, then yes, for me, definitely, if you mean suppressing it, no, certainly not.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

my head hurts so much. i dont know if its the seroquel or quitting nardil. i havent taken seroquel for 3 days now .


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

why did you stop seroquel ? because of the headache ?

might just be a headache mate, and nothing to do with meds.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yes i think thats wat causing it . waiting for all the seroquel to vannish from my body .


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

oh ok thats a shame as it was working well for you - any idea as to what you are trying next then mate ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

i mean seroquel was workin a little but i still had social anxiety. next im trying to get parnate


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

is nardil still not out of my system? my blood pressure i tested it today 133/77
like am i permanent damaged now


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

did you test regularly before nardil ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

yeah and it was around that


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

sorry mate, you saying its normal then ?


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## zeusko87 (Sep 30, 2014)

Kurdish, your blood pressure is perfectly normal


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

oh lol read ur comment wrong thought u meant when i was on nardil . before nardil no but i had done taken my blood pressure by doctors and they said it was normal so im assuming it was good then.

it says below 120 over 80 (120/80) is normal. so i dont know what u mean zeusko.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I would throw the monitor away if not going back on MAOI's - just get it checked when ever at the docs.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

why are u so against checking blood pressure?
i will probably try a few other MAOI's in the future.


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## TonyH (Mar 8, 2015)

<UPDATED LOG - SUBJECT NARDIL.> My genitals have fallen off, my anxiety has lessened and I've grown a third.. well you know what. This is crazy. BUY NARDIL TODAY AND YOU TO CAN EXPERIENCE IMMORTALITY!!


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> why are u so against checking blood pressure?
> i will probably try a few other MAOI's in the future.


Because you can get it wrong or become obsessed. Your BP is fine 13/7 is perfectly ok, now think to something else.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Cassoulet94 said:


> Because you can get it wrong or become obsessed. Your BP is fine 13/7 is perfectly ok, now think to something else.


get it wrong what you mean? i care for my health. if you dont care about yours ok but dont push it on others.
http://foenix.com/BP/is-133/77-good-blood-pressure-or-high-blood-pressure.html
in your face

Normal Blood Pressure
Systolic: Less than 120
Diastolic: Less than 80

For 133/77 to be good, both numbers must fit into the "normal" category above. Otherwise, it will fall into other categories of High Blood Pressure.

Therefore, 133/77 is not good blood pressure (Prehypertension).


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> get it wrong what you mean? i care for my health. if you dont care about yours ok but dont push it on others.
> http://foenix.com/BP/is-133/77-good-blood-pressure-or-high-blood-pressure.html
> in your face
> 
> ...


Stay nice.

Get it wrong means you could take improper measures.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Blood-pressure-(high)/Pages/Introduction.aspx

The British National Health Service defines high blood pressure as 14/9 or higher.

Plus you're talking about your health but are you doing therapy at least ? Instead of desperately waiting for a drug to cure you miraculously when obviously you do not respond to them significantly.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Cassoulet94 said:


> Stay nice.
> 
> Get it wrong means you could take improper measures.
> 
> ...


improper measures like what?

your link just proved my point.

quotes from the articel. ''High blood pressure, or hypertension, rarely has noticeable symptoms. But if untreated, it increases your risk of serious problems such as heart attacks and strokes.''

''ideal blood pressure is considered to be between 90/60mmHg and 120/80mmHg''

''A blood pressure reading between 120/80mmHg and 140/90mmHg could mean you're at risk of developing high blood pressure if you don't take steps to keep your blood pressure under control.''

I have not tried all medications just ssri,snri and nardil. thats not all of them.
therapy wont work for me because it's genetics I just gotta find the right med.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I`m not particularly against checking BP Kurdish, its just that you have no reason to keep checking - your young so a check with a doctor every now and again will suffice I would have thought.

I just don't think it will help with your anxiety mate, thats all.

If you hope to get on parnate or nardil again then fine keep it, but put it away till then and concentrate on your boxing, diet etc to keep your BP in shape. Just an opinion.


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> improper measures like what?
> 
> your link just proved my point.
> 
> ...


"Could mean". A lot of people have 13/7 without any problem. Plus you stopped a med that modifies blood pressure not so long ago so just wait for your body to get back to normal. Plus BP varies during the day.

As for knowing if it's genetic you have absolutely no idea no study has proven that SA was only biological. And even if so, CBT has been proven to modifies the brain chemistry.

But you do what you want, just keep on chasing a miracle cure you'll never find.

How old are you anyway ?


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

cbt doesen't modify brain chemistry i dont care what you say. Also I dont need any study to know if my SA is genetics or not. I know myself best.

yeah i just stopped nardil that is probably why my bp is high, but thats not what we are talking about we're discussing about if 133/77 is bad or not.

you totaly ignored the other 2 quotes that i posted that said the level of blood pressure i have is unhealthy.
bp does vary but it should never go above 120/80. 
anyway im done with you.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Yes im trying to get parnate my doc gonna call me on 22 feb. really wanna test this med.


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

KurdishFella said:


> cbt doesen't modify brain chemistry i dont care what you say. Also I dont need any study to know if my SA is genetics or not. I know myself best.
> .


Well at this point I don't think anyone can help you that's too bad.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Cassoulet94 said:


> Well at this point I don't think anyone can help you that's too
> bad.


Yeah Kurdish, you are being a bit on the lairy side today !! :mum


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## V1bzz (Feb 20, 2017)

Hi all, I have also just started on this brand of Nardil. On day 4 and my first dose of 3x15mg. Not sure if I feel anything from the meds yet as feeling pants cos of withdraw from Escitalopram.

Read good things about this drug, sure hoping this is the one! 

NTMU all


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## V1bzz (Feb 20, 2017)

Oh the whole blood pressure thing is making me really nervous. How do you know at home how and when it is really low or high or whatever. I think this is the only thing that is making me worry about taking this medication!


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

V1bzz said:


> Oh the whole blood pressure thing is making me really nervous. How do you know at home how and when it is really low or high or whatever. I think this is the only thing that is making me worry about taking this medication!


Well you have to buy a bloodpressure monitor, prefferdly one that has a cuff that is used on your upper arm, they are more accurate then the "wrist" ones...

Make sure the "cuff" is the right size, since a to small cuff can give a false high...

Omron is a good brand.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

V1bzz said:


> Oh the whole blood pressure thing is making me really nervous. How do you know at home how and when it is really low or high or whatever. I think this is the only thing that is making me worry about taking this medication!


Or to avoid becoming obsessed, wrong readings, panicking over nothing you could not bother with a BP moniter at home and just arrange a quick check each month with your doc, nurse or pharmacist. Thats what I did on my pdoc's advice.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

is 114/81 bad?? im sick also dont know if it affects your BP.
http://foenix.com/BP/is-114/81-good-blood-pressure-or-high-blood-pressure.html
this site says its bad wtf

says ''Therefore, 114/81 is not good blood pressure (Prehypertension). 
'' on the bottom


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## V1bzz (Feb 20, 2017)

KurdishFella said:


> is 114/81 bad?? im sick also dont know if it affects your BP.
> http://foenix.com/BP/is-114/81-good-blood-pressure-or-high-blood-pressure.html
> this site says its bad wtf


I reckon so, dpeending on what you have got it could either lower it or higher it.


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