# I am a recovering Phenylethylamine (PEA) addict...anyone else out there?!



## trayhawk

I literally am a recoverying PEA addict. I combined it with deprenyl, a MAOI-B inhibitor (Monoamine Oxidase-B degrades certain amines, one of which is PEA. It renders it essentially useless, inactive, and without effect when PEA is ingested). Early on during my first bout of addiction, it provided an intense euphoric high and made researching (and almost anything) more interesting and pleasurable. Even with deprenyl, though, the high would last only 1-2 hours and you would have to continue to dose and often still go through crashes of anxiety, rage, and depression. It was a viscous cycle.I did have a prescription for klonopin (1.5-2mgs per day) which offset some of the rebound rage/anxiety/depression. I entered grad school in january 2007 and would only function if I had the PEA.Because of my addiction, I lasted only 1 semester in My Medicinal Pharmacology and Physiology grad program at Mizzou and was strongly encouraged to move back home. I overcame it in late 2007, then relapsed from march 09 through september. My family had an intervention and I went to AA(which can be used successfully for other drugs besides alcohol). After starting AA, Ive been "sober" from it. 

I literally know of NO ONE who has ever had this addiction - so its frustrating. Its legal, cheap, and when successfully combined with an MAOI-B inhibitor - potent. Yet I got to a point where (in 09) I would stay up for 2 days at a time high on it and get nothing done but stare at tvs, webpages, or books. My addiction led to my firing at my job. Being without it was horrendous - no motivation to do anything and no pleasure derived from any activity especially relative to the heightened interest PEA offered for practically any activity.

PEA levels are typically low in those with depression. Being a research nut and with a Pre-Pharmacology degree, I concocted this combo to hopefully alleviate some depression and further help with focus, interest, and in deriving pleasure from everyday activities. 

The second addiction period (starting in march 09) was not nearly as euphoric but just as addictive. I HAD to have it. I isolated myself even more into my room or my a computer for hours upon hours. I wouldn't eat for two days b/c food interferes with PEA absorption and you would lose the high until your stomach emptied. I would be up for 48 hours, then sleep for 36. Then wait outside and chase the UPS guy down waiting for my next order (which I always tried to pay the extra fee for overnight shipping). It was nuts. I was nuts. When I ran out, my functioning (though completely irrational functioning at that) ran out too.


Perhaps someone else has struggled with PEA as well.


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## mark555666

Well it's a cheap / legal substitute for cocaine lol.

Never heard of this before.

Good luck with recovery.

Here's another report: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/selegiline-pea-gbl-report-65910/


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## trayhawk

Freesix88: Much appreciated link. Interesting that they combined it with GHB. Sweet jesus thank the lord I never had access to that or I'd have been staring at my tv for the last 256 days straight I bet...

PEA/selegeline combo reports/reviews are not uncommon and most do get the euphoria and high (and usually the crash too). I've had just not run across someone who had an undeniable absolute addiction problem with it that I had (and will always have).


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## euphoria

I've experienced the PEA high myself and know that it could be addictive. It wasn't all that addictive in my case because it sent my heart racing even more than Ritalin. Amphetamine is actually PEA with only a minor addition to the chemical structure.

PEA:








http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Fenyloetyloamina.svg

Amphetamine:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Amphetamine-2D-skeletal.svg


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## crayzyMed

PEA is ****, i dont even wonna try it, a stim that only works for 30 minutes there's no point.


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## podizzle

it is **** i took 4 of them to see what it was all about and all i got was sweaty increased heart rate and BP spike. basically like a panic attack. not what i consider "euphoric". Never combined it with selegeline because i figured it just amplified the PEA which sounded like a nightmare. 

PEA may have a place in severely depressed people but i'd rather smoke a bowl of salvia to snap out of something like that.


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## trayhawk

Yeah PEA solo is **** and without effect. But WITH 5 to 10 mgs of selegeline taken daily, I was able to basically stay high throughout the duration of my waking hours. This was especially during my first run in 06-07 when I did was taking klonopin and zoloft. I only needed 500 mgs to last 90-120 minutes. Repeat dosing. Also, selegeline's absorption is increased by I don't know how many -fold when taken with food. THis was tricky as I had to have a pretty empty stomach (at least 90 minutes and up to two hours post-prandial state with a normal sized meal) for PEA to have effect. I would simply eat 2/3rd of a protein bar and be good to go.

I would sit in the Mizzou Medical Library during grad school for 10 hours straight just immersed in Lipid Biochemistry textbooks and researching journals in depth. I absolutely loved the feeling of being so intimately and innately interested and mentally invested in information.

Anhedonia was a term I was unfamiliar with until I just joined these boards last week. I've struggled with this relative to hobbies and interests that I am naturally inclined to both engage in garner legitimate enjoyment and pleasure from (researching and bodybuilding are the main two for me). PEA certainly exacerbated the anhedonia for me as my drive for physiology and biochemistry research has been markedly blunted by my prolonged and excessive PEA abuse.


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## voyage

trayhawk said:


> I literally am a recoverying PEA addict. I combined it with deprenyl, a MAOI-B inhibitor (Monoamine Oxidase-B degrades certain amines, one of which is PEA. It renders it essentially useless, inactive, and without effect when PEA is ingested). Early on during my first bout of addiction, it provided an intense euphoric high and made researching (and almost anything) more interesting and pleasurable. Even with deprenyl, though, the high would last only 1-2 hours and you would have to continue to dose and often still go through crashes of anxiety, rage, and depression. It was a viscous cycle.I did have a prescription for klonopin (1.5-2mgs per day) which offset some of the rebound rage/anxiety/depression. I entered grad school in january 2007 and would only function if I had the PEA.Because of my addiction, I lasted only 1 semester in My Medicinal Pharmacology and Physiology grad program at Mizzou and was strongly encouraged to move back home. I overcame it in late 2007, then relapsed from march 09 through september. My family had an intervention and I went to AA(which can be used successfully for other drugs besides alcohol). After starting AA, Ive been "sober" from it.
> 
> I literally know of NO ONE who has ever had this addiction - so its frustrating. Its legal, cheap, and when successfully combined with an MAOI-B inhibitor - potent. Yet I got to a point where (in 09) I would stay up for 2 days at a time high on it and get nothing done but stare at tvs, webpages, or books. My addiction led to my firing at my job. Being without it was horrendous - no motivation to do anything and no pleasure derived from any activity especially relative to the heightened interest PEA offered for practically any activity.
> 
> PEA levels are typically low in those with depression. Being a research nut and with a Pre-Pharmacology degree, I concocted this combo to hopefully alleviate some depression and further help with focus, interest, and in deriving pleasure from everyday activities.
> 
> The second addiction period (starting in march 09) was not nearly as euphoric but just as addictive. I HAD to have it. I isolated myself even more into my room or my a computer for hours upon hours. I wouldn't eat for two days b/c food interferes with PEA absorption and you would lose the high until your stomach emptied. I would be up for 48 hours, then sleep for 36. Then wait outside and chase the UPS guy down waiting for my next order (which I always tried to pay the extra fee for overnight shipping). It was nuts. I was nuts. When I ran out, my functioning (though completely irrational functioning at that) ran out too.
> 
> Perhaps someone else has struggled with PEA as well.


May i ask how you are with Alcohol? have you had any addictive tendancies with drinking? smoking?

interesting.... I guess the cheap price is no deterrant.

Hope you are ok now though.

Voyage


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## Dorian

I never got much out of PEA. Anaracitam on the other hand is pretty good, mixed with Piracetam, dimethylamylamine, and l-tyrosine.


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## rossija86

*your not alone*

You are the closest case that I've seen on various forums. I was addicted from August 2009 until February 2010. I broke up with my GF who I've been with over 4 years. We are now back together that I cleaned up. Frequently I would stay up anywhere from 2 to 5 days. I was totally ****ed. I constantly hallucinated when I would not sleep more than 2 nights. I've done tons of amphetamines: MDMA, amphetamine/dextroamphetamine (speed) or both. I have never had meth by itself but had in xtc pills which contain all 3 amphetamines. I'done coke multiple times and I'm not a fan. What I'm trying to get at is that none of those drugs had defeated me. The phenylethylamine & deprenyl combo was by far the most euphoric. During the first week I discovered it, I had to call an ambulance for myself. I took about a 1.5g shot and thought my heart was going to give on me. I can go on writing pages about the 5 - 6 month I was addicted. I'm sure there are a good number addicted but don't realize it as the combo can legal be purchased and this addiction has never been heard of. The first person who I knew was addicted to it was me. I'm glad I found someone that had the same unheard of experience like me.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Freesix88 said:


> Well it's a cheap / legal substitute for cocaine lol.
> 
> Never heard of this before.
> 
> Good luck with recovery.
> 
> Here's another report: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/selegiline-pea-gbl-report-65910/


So PEA to cocaine is like Spice or JWH-(XXX) to cannabis?


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## crayzyMed

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> So PEA to cocaine is like Spice or JWH-(XXX) to cannabis?


 No PEA to cocaine is like jenkem to MDMA.


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## Under17

crayzyMed said:


> No PEA to cocaine is like jenkem to MDMA.


Lmao :teeth. I guess this is one to skip.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Oh god, that sounds like ****. Does peas have any connection to like 2cs and stuff. That's what I thought phenethylamine was, a type of chemical structure for the type of various psychedelics. I didn't think it could be used as an actual drug when it's isolated by itself.


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## Duke of Prunes

PEA is the structure that DA, NE, ephedrine, 2Cs and amphetamines are based on.

Amphetamine is essentially just PEA with a methyl group on α, hence *A*lpha-*M*ethyl*ph*enyl*et*hyl*amine*.

2Cs are PEA with methoxy groups at 2,5 and in all but one case, a substitution at 4 (aka a para substitution because it's opposite the ethyl group). DOx compounds are amphetamine versions of 2Cs.

If you have a PEA based compound with a lone para substitution on the phenyl group, you'll end up with something either highly unpleasant or highly toxic.

PEAs with the classic 3,4-methylenedioxy are almost always entactogenic 

Read PiHKAL if you're interested, there's literally endless permutations of PEAs. Most of them are horrible though. A handful of 2Cs/DOx, mescaline, amphetamine itself, 5-Methyl-MDA, MDMA/MDEA/MDA and maybe methylone if I was really desperate are the only ones I'd touch. The FLY compounds are the worst of the worst, especially Bromo-DragonFLY.

Plain old PEA itself is trash. Avoid. Pathetic half-life and barely active without an MAOI. If you want a good stimulant, just go for plain old amphetamine. Stay far away from all the obscure versions, they just don't sound that worth it from what I've read.


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## rossija86

You speaking from experience? Phenylethylamine combined with deprenyl/selegiline is extremely potent and effective. Take it from people who were actually addicted to the combo. Various amphetemines never had me close to being addicted; PEA/Selegiline did.


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## Duke of Prunes

Have you tried taking it on it's own? Hence "barely active _without an MAOI_". Also, even if you do take it with an MAOI, the duration is far too short for it to be of any worth.


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## millenniumman75

I am not sure what this PEA is, but it looks to have taken significant control over your life.
You had to quit grad school (I would like to go to grad school someday), lose jobs, lose livelihood, and forfeit your own happiness. That doesn't sound like an improvement to me.

A lot of the pressure we have (stress), we actually put on ourselves. Being a bit kinder to ourselves, and realizing that we are not perfect, is a good start. I would stay away from this PEA stuff and see a doctor if you need meds so it can be controlled.


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## crayzyMed

Duke of Prunes said:


> Have you tried taking it on it's own? Hence "barely active _without an MAOI_". Also, even if you do take it with an MAOI, the duration is far too short for it to be of any worth.


+1


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Duke of Prunes said:


> Have you tried taking it on it's own? Hence "barely active _without an MAOI_". Also, even if you do take it with an MAOI, the duration is far too short for it to be of any worth.


Duration has nothing to do with a drug's worth. If you cook some coke and make it into crack, or mainline that ****, the duration is short but very powerful. Not suggesting anyone to do it, just saying.


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## trayhawk

millenniumman75 said:


> I am not sure what this PEA is, but it looks to have taken significant control over your life.
> You had to quit grad school (I would like to go to grad school someday), lose jobs, lose livelihood, and forfeit your own happiness. That doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
> 
> A lot of the pressure we have (stress), we actually put on ourselves. Being a bit kinder to ourselves, and realizing that we are not perfect, is a good start. I would stay away from this PEA stuff and see a doctor if you need meds so it can be controlled.


Actually, I've been sober from it since 9/2/09. So I had been sober 9 months roughly when I first wrote that.

I am convinced it has permanently screwed up my ability to feal as much pleasure from things. Researching, following stl cards baseball, watching movies, music, etc. have all been marred by anhedonia..

I've been on nardil(had some PEA scares with that as it not only prevents its breakdown but directly converts to it) and gabapentin for over a year now....not really a solution.

I would also say in retrospect my need for human interaction - even though social anxiety has plagued my life for nearly 20 years - is certainly worse as a result. Especially when I review the past 20 years and realize that bascially since being on - then off - phenylethylamine - I have had literally less than 5 legitimate outside the family social interactions.

Dopamine reward center seems to be altered...might try wellbutrin as I have a new therapist session dec. 28th.

I am certainly at a better place financially, emotionally, and from being just a better person than I was when I was hooked but the repercussions of my use coupled with lifelong battles with SA/depression still linger. I keep searching, praying, and seeking advice of therapists/counselors, though to find something to get me to a better place. I won't give up on this.


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## wMarty

*Possibly having issues with PEA*

By the way, TrayHawk: "Phenelzine has also been shown to metabolize to phenethylamine (PEA).[12] PEA acts as a releasing agent of norepinephrine and dopamine, and produces effects very similar to those of amphetamine, though with markedly different pharmacokinetics such as a far shorter duration of action. Phenelzine's enhancement of PEA levels may contribute further to its overall antidepressant effects to some degree. In addition, phenethylamine is a substrate for MAO-B, and treatment with MAOIs that inhibit MAO-B such as phenelzine have been shown to consistently and significantly elevate its concentrations."

I'm sure you were aware of this fact; did it motivate your choice of Nardil or did you go with Nardil because it's said to be the 'gold standard' of GSAD pharmacopeia?

I'm on PEA since about 1 1/3 years and find it to be quite helpful for my case, but I'm scared I may got in trouble as I felt the need to increase my dosage lately. Also, I now have some withdrawal symptoms after about 16 hours without a dose.

I'm not using PEA recreatively and avoid any "buzzing" dosage. Also, my MAO-B inhibition is very weak: Caffeine and Afobazol (Russian anxiolytic).

I'm very sensitive to some drugs and PEA seems one of them, but in a good way. As for example, I can't stand any dosage of amphetamine; I turn into an autistic-like person having sensory-overdrive. PEA to me feels like what I expected ADHD drugs to feels like, plus it makes me feel much more resilient and lightly - but significantly - reduce some physical symptoms I'm suffering from.

Not sure at which point I'd withdraw from PEA, but I definitively will if my dosage need continue to increase significantly. One year ago I was at [500 mg in the morning] and I'm now at [750mg, 2 to 3 times a day depending on symptoms].

Considering I'm not experiencing - let alone craving - euphoria states, do you guys consider that I have a decent rational to continue on my PEA therapy? or do you think I should withdraw right away even though I'm benefiting a lot from it? Note that since I've tried 30+ drugs (and 30+ otc drugs), replacing PEA would be kind of diffucult; except for Nardil (and very high dose Lyrica, go figure) nothing helped like PEA and those who did poop out at some point.

Hope you guys are doing all well and happy holidays to all of you. :boogie
wMarty

EDIT: Please keep your simplistic "PEA is ****" comment if you feel like replying me. What's poison for one can be medicine for others. Also, I don't care about if Shulgin detected a psychoactive effect to PEA or not: he wasn't exactly someone sensitive to small dosage of softcore drugs like many patient dealing with anxiety disorders are. If you feel like talking psychopharmacology or neuroscience, I'm all for it, but please keep it constructive. As for example, I'd be interested in theories about how someone could respond positively to a so little short-lived substance like PEA without proper MAO-B inhibition. Yelling "****!" or "Placebo!" isn't doing much justice to - most of you guys - knowledge level and intellectual capabilities anyway.


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## rossija86

wMarty said:


> By the way, TrayHawk: "Phenelzine has also been shown to metabolize to phenethylamine (PEA).[12] PEA acts as a releasing agent of norepinephrine and dopamine, and produces effects very similar to those of amphetamine, though with markedly different pharmacokinetics such as a far shorter duration of action. Phenelzine's enhancement of PEA levels may contribute further to its overall antidepressant effects to some degree. In addition, phenethylamine is a substrate for MAO-B, and treatment with MAOIs that inhibit MAO-B such as phenelzine have been shown to consistently and significantly elevate its concentrations."
> 
> I'm sure you were aware of this fact; did it motivate your choice of Nardil or did you go with Nardil because it's said to be the 'gold standard' of GSAD pharmacopeia?
> 
> I'm on PEA since about 1 1/3 years and find it to be quite helpful for my case, but I'm scared I may got in trouble as I felt the need to increase my dosage lately. Also, I now have some withdrawal symptoms after about 16 hours without a dose.
> 
> I'm not using PEA recreatively and avoid any "buzzing" dosage. Also, my MAO-B inhibition is very weak: Caffeine and Afobazol (Russian anxiolytic).
> 
> I'm very sensitive to some drugs and PEA seems one of them, but in a good way. As for example, I can't stand any dosage of amphetamine; I turn into an autistic-like person having sensory-overdrive. PEA to me feels like what I expected ADHD drugs to feels like, plus it makes me feel much more resilient and lightly - but significantly - reduce some physical symptoms I'm suffering from.
> 
> Not sure at which point I'd withdraw from PEA, but I definitively will if my dosage need continue to increase significantly. One year ago I was at [500 mg in the morning] and I'm now at [750mg, 2 to 3 times a day depending on symptoms].
> 
> Considering I'm not experiencing - let alone craving - euphoria states, do you guys consider that I have a decent rational to continue on my PEA therapy? or do you think I should withdraw right away even though I'm benefiting a lot from it? Note that since I've tried 30+ drugs (and 30+ otc drugs), replacing PEA would be kind of diffucult; except for Nardil (and very high dose Lyrica, go figure) nothing helped like PEA and those who did poop out at some point.
> 
> Hope you guys are doing all well and happy holidays to all of you. :boogie
> wMarty
> 
> EDIT: Please keep your simplistic "PEA is ****" comment if you feel like replying me. What's poison for one can be medicine for others. Also, I don't care about if Shulgin detected a psychoactive effect to PEA or not: he wasn't exactly someone sensitive to small dosage of softcore drugs like many patient dealing with anxiety disorders are. If you feel like talking psychopharmacology or neuroscience, I'm all for it, but please keep it constructive. As for example, I'd be interested in theories about how someone could respond positively to a so little short-lived substance like PEA without proper MAO-B inhibition. Yelling "****!" or "Placebo!" isn't doing much justice to - most of you guys - knowledge level and intellectual capabilities anyway.


You don't seem to have an addictive personality as you were able to utilize this combo for that long without seeking a buzz from it.

As with amphetamines, your tolerance will continue to build as time passes. People using amphetamines and other stimulants for ADD and ADHD never stop increasing their dose as the years pass. They can choose to but its effects will eventually come to a halt.

TRAYHAWK and I were both addicted and described some of our experiences with it on this post. Others just like to hear themselves talk when they post useless comments to appear knowledgeable and somehow superior. Take from individuals with actual real life experience.

Seeing that you use this combination really respectively and responsibly, I would continue to employ it as an aid. The only thing I highly recommend for this course of action is that you take a few break periods after a certain period of use. I would recommend the break period to be at least for three weeks which should be sufficient in refreshing your natural function to an appropriate level. Four breaks a year would be great. This would balance out your increasing tolerance.

I know the suggestion might not be easy to get around but this is an extremely potent combination which needs periods of natural regeneration.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

wMarty said:


> EDIT: Please keep your simplistic "PEA is ****" comment if you feel like replying me. What's poison for one can be medicine for others. Also, I don't care about if Shulgin detected a psychoactive effect to PEA or not: he wasn't exactly someone sensitive to small dosage of softcore drugs like many patient dealing with anxiety disorders are. If you feel like talking psychopharmacology or neuroscience, I'm all for it, but please keep it constructive. As for example, I'd be interested in theories about how someone could respond positively to a so little short-lived substance like PEA without proper MAO-B inhibition. Yelling "****!" or "Placebo!" isn't doing much justice to - most of you guys - knowledge level and intellectual capabilities anyway.


If you looked at it fairly, I was interested in trying it out and if crazymed, who has done his share of substances compares it to some literal vapors of **** you huff from sewers, of course I'm going to say it sounds like ****. I trust his drug knowledge over most people here, he's always been fair on his likes and dislikes of drugs.

You have to realize you are showing protectionism of a substance, being snobbish about it, that's a sign you are getting deep into it. You talk about how you longer chase a euphoria and you taken 60+ forms of substances. That sounds like chasing a euphoria to me. For someone with "high intellectual capability" you sure aren't real with yourself.


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## akountear

I don't understand why you were more or less fired from school if you were so spending all your time studying??
And another question did the stuff you learnt under the influence of PEA stayed in your mind or just vanish? did you forget it I mean?


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## satsumas

*PEA - me too!*

treyhawk, i'm so glad i found your original post. i had nearly the exact same experience with PEA as you did, and I think we probably have similar biology/issues. here is my story:

i'm a 30 year old, brainy guy, who has struggled with depression and social anxiety since I was a kid. the depression got really bad in my early 20s and it was off and on for years, mostly on, sometimes very bad. I went to a top school, grad school, then worked for a biG internet company in a plum job, but was just chronically unhappy and anhedonic. The times I felt most secure and optimistic were the few times I was in a long term relationship with a girl (but it has been very brief over the years). Probably definite PEA relationship there. And everytime I feel a romantic rejection or loss of love, it triggers a massive, prolonged, deep depression more than just despair. After my experience with PEA, I've come to realize that I probably am just hypersensitive of endogenously lacking in PEA.

Anyway, In 2008 and 2009 I wasn't working after leaving my job because I wasn't satisfied and depressed and didn't perform well and basically hated life, and thought job change or going out on my own would help. Boy was I worng. I eventually ended in the hospital, doing 22 sessions oF ECT and moving back in with my parents due to the deep depression, isolation, despair.

I finally got back to work, and long story short, stumbled upon PEA, trying it again after it had been in my cabinent for a few years from a previous trial. I can't remember if I originally took it combined with deprenyl, which i had taken off and on for a while. But at the time, in early 2010, I was taking Cymbalta, and this time, tried a full 250mg PEA instead of smaller amounts I had tried before. I went to starbucks and within minutes (on an empty stomach), felt the depression completely lift, I had never felt anything quite like it and certainly not as fast. As you said, everything became hyper interesting, my mind seemed clear, comprehension was open, motivation for was reading was there, and the anhedonia lifted, albeit briefly.

So that was the start. I too had to redose every few hours, literally packing 750mg pills in my pocket so I was never without. I eventually took it with deprenyl and then emsam, and of course my doctor had never had any experience with any patient taking this combo and originally he was supportive, as I was feeling good for the first time in my life. My social life expanded, I became more extroverted, less inhibited, more creative...but then the downfall happened pretty quickly.

I'm glad to hear your story becuase I always wondered if my experience was unique to my psychology or if there was something unique about PEA that made me do what I did, but I fell apart rapidly. Would stay up late, on the computer, researching everything (including pharmocology, supplements, meds). PEA's impact on my depression rapidly waned and I was still feeling "depressed" but also euphoric, a definite mixed state (i'm bipolar 2). I was screwing off at my job, taking PEA during the day to keep attention and focus, everything, and I mean EVERYTHIGN became interesting, it was a total information addiction, millions of browser tabs open at once, googling anything and everything. I would go on late night drives just so I could get my mind off my computer and let it spin with ideas, grandiosities, etc.

I'm not sure if this was all just a mania, it was different from any hypomania I had ever experienced. I felt confident and my social anxiety was gone, but I didn't relaize I was sweating like a pig during every social encounter I was in. Eventually parents and doctors stepped in and I too ended up in rehab, where I somehow convinced them to let me stay on PEA at a reduced dose. Eventually however even that didnt work and I had to taper, withdrawing over a 6 week period by having my mom meter out doses. It was hell. I was basically on the couch.

Anyway thats my story, I could probably talk more, but I'd be interested to hear how you're doing now. Even though I was "addicted" to PEA, I found that it significantly reduced my desire to smoke, unlike anything else, which was interesting. After getting off PEA, I'm now on a very high dose of wellbutrin (800mg) and mirapex and vyvanse to help support dopamine. And cymbalta. Things are basically back to where they used to be, I'm not sure I had permanent impacts from the PEA and I do think the wellbutrin is the right drug for me (I have tried everything myself) but it was definitely an experience. I have relapsed a few times since then, although not at the doses I was taking (I was dosing 2-3 grams every few hours at my height).I think it ****ed with my memory though, I don't have too many memories of the things I did or learned etc. during the end times of PEA. I basically feel like given PEA's characterization as the "love chemical", I essentially fell in love with falling in love, except there was no woman! Now that I'm starting to date again, I feel at a low level some of the feelings I felt when I first started taking high doses of PEA.

I always wondered if there was a way to get a timed release version of PEA, or a patch, if it could be used successfully. My doctor thinks its a dead end for me to ever try again. I'm also in AA for PEA addiction, and it's the only substance addiction besides nicotine I really have, although I have pretty bad 'information addiction'. I'd like to hold out hope that I could use PEA successfully again someday, and I know Emsam works for lots of people and deprenyl plus phenylalananine, which increases PEA in a constant fashion, but for me, nothing did it like the large doses. I've never treid cocaine but I'm guessing it was similar to that.

Anyway thats my long story, private message me sometime, i'd like to hear how you're doing now. What are you doing to treat your depression/SA now? What has worked for you pharmacologically? How is the anhedonia? What were your doctors comments about PEA? And i'm especially interested in hearing if it had any impact on any other addictive behaviors you might have had, like smoking, or drinking, etc. I find it very interesting that at high doses it 100% completely curbed my cigaratte cravings, as in, I didn't need or care about smoking at all. Although it could have been because everything else was just so 'interesting' (including my thinking processes) that I just 'forgot' to smoke. But if PEA has any place in nicotine or addiction treatment, I want to find out, and maybe I can turn my negative experience into something positive.

PEA really ruined me, i lost all my money in bad investments, lost a great job, and lost friends and embarassed myself. At least its good to hear i'm not alone.

Look forward to hearing from you.
Satsumas


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## 425runner

I'm another person who was addicted to the PEA/Deprenyl combo. It started out as an innocent PEA capsule taken on an empty stomach washed down with a cup of joe to help me wake up. I was pleasantly surprised how good it made me feel and being a sufferer of depression and ADHD, started experimenting with it. I was a pre-med at that time and totally immersed myself in biochemistry and pharmacology, I loved it. 

Like everyone else, I didn't want the "high" to end after 20 min. so added Selegiline at a low dose, or so I thought, 2.5 mg at first later increased to 5mg. It worked great!! In fact, so great that I wanted to feel that way all day and that's when the trouble started. :no

I'd order 12 bottles of 500 mg PEA capsules at a time and a powder to take on the days I was home. To make a long story short, I ended up with hypertensive crisis several times, lucky to be alive, and started having panic attacks after I discontinued the PEA.

It's very dangerous - proceed at your own caution.


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## warsaw

Im also in some way addicted to the Selegiline/PEA combo, however its kinda hard to get them in my country (Poland), and PEA aint that cheap. Thats why im taking it since two years and never had hypotensive attack. I usually buy 120 caps (500mg) every two weeks and stay in pleasure for 2 days (weekend) - then come back to normal  I think its the safest way to get euphoric/high. [edit] Aaaahh, just one capsule left... i hate when its just one left  BTW i discovered that it works better with hot water. Im wondering if its possible to smoke it...


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## crayzyMed

satsumas said:


> treyhawk, i'm so glad i found your original post. i had nearly the exact same experience with PEA as you did, and I think we probably have similar biology/issues. here is my story:
> 
> i'm a 30 year old, brainy guy, who has struggled with depression and social anxiety since I was a kid. the depression got really bad in my early 20s and it was off and on for years, mostly on, sometimes very bad. I went to a top school, grad school, then worked for a biG internet company in a plum job, but was just chronically unhappy and anhedonic. The times I felt most secure and optimistic were the few times I was in a long term relationship with a girl (but it has been very brief over the years). Probably definite PEA relationship there. And everytime I feel a romantic rejection or loss of love, it triggers a massive, prolonged, deep depression more than just despair. After my experience with PEA, I've come to realize that I probably am just hypersensitive of endogenously lacking in PEA.
> 
> Anyway, In 2008 and 2009 I wasn't working after leaving my job because I wasn't satisfied and depressed and didn't perform well and basically hated life, and thought job change or going out on my own would help. Boy was I worng. I eventually ended in the hospital, doing 22 sessions oF ECT and moving back in with my parents due to the deep depression, isolation, despair.
> 
> I finally got back to work, and long story short, stumbled upon PEA, trying it again after it had been in my cabinent for a few years from a previous trial. I can't remember if I originally took it combined with deprenyl, which i had taken off and on for a while. But at the time, in early 2010, I was taking Cymbalta, and this time, tried a full 250mg PEA instead of smaller amounts I had tried before. I went to starbucks and within minutes (on an empty stomach), felt the depression completely lift, I had never felt anything quite like it and certainly not as fast. As you said, everything became hyper interesting, my mind seemed clear, comprehension was open, motivation for was reading was there, and the anhedonia lifted, albeit briefly.
> 
> So that was the start. I too had to redose every few hours, literally packing 750mg pills in my pocket so I was never without. I eventually took it with deprenyl and then emsam, and of course my doctor had never had any experience with any patient taking this combo and originally he was supportive, as I was feeling good for the first time in my life. My social life expanded, I became more extroverted, less inhibited, more creative...but then the downfall happened pretty quickly.
> 
> I'm glad to hear your story becuase I always wondered if my experience was unique to my psychology or if there was something unique about PEA that made me do what I did, but I fell apart rapidly. Would stay up late, on the computer, researching everything (including pharmocology, supplements, meds). PEA's impact on my depression rapidly waned and I was still feeling "depressed" but also euphoric, a definite mixed state (i'm bipolar 2). I was screwing off at my job, taking PEA during the day to keep attention and focus, everything, and I mean EVERYTHIGN became interesting, it was a total information addiction, millions of browser tabs open at once, googling anything and everything. I would go on late night drives just so I could get my mind off my computer and let it spin with ideas, grandiosities, etc.
> 
> I'm not sure if this was all just a mania, it was different from any hypomania I had ever experienced. I felt confident and my social anxiety was gone, but I didn't relaize I was sweating like a pig during every social encounter I was in. Eventually parents and doctors stepped in and I too ended up in rehab, where I somehow convinced them to let me stay on PEA at a reduced dose. Eventually however even that didnt work and I had to taper, withdrawing over a 6 week period by having my mom meter out doses. It was hell. I was basically on the couch.
> 
> Anyway thats my story, I could probably talk more, but I'd be interested to hear how you're doing now. Even though I was "addicted" to PEA, I found that it significantly reduced my desire to smoke, unlike anything else, which was interesting. After getting off PEA, I'm now on a very high dose of wellbutrin (800mg) and mirapex and vyvanse to help support dopamine. And cymbalta. Things are basically back to where they used to be, I'm not sure I had permanent impacts from the PEA and I do think the wellbutrin is the right drug for me (I have tried everything myself) but it was definitely an experience. I have relapsed a few times since then, although not at the doses I was taking (I was dosing 2-3 grams every few hours at my height).I think it ****ed with my memory though, I don't have too many memories of the things I did or learned etc. during the end times of PEA. I basically feel like given PEA's characterization as the "love chemical", I essentially fell in love with falling in love, except there was no woman! Now that I'm starting to date again, I feel at a low level some of the feelings I felt when I first started taking high doses of PEA.
> 
> I always wondered if there was a way to get a timed release version of PEA, or a patch, if it could be used successfully. My doctor thinks its a dead end for me to ever try again. I'm also in AA for PEA addiction, and it's the only substance addiction besides nicotine I really have, although I have pretty bad 'information addiction'. I'd like to hold out hope that I could use PEA successfully again someday, and I know Emsam works for lots of people and deprenyl plus phenylalananine, which increases PEA in a constant fashion, but for me, nothing did it like the large doses. I've never treid cocaine but I'm guessing it was similar to that.
> 
> Anyway thats my long story, private message me sometime, i'd like to hear how you're doing now. What are you doing to treat your depression/SA now? What has worked for you pharmacologically? How is the anhedonia? What were your doctors comments about PEA? And i'm especially interested in hearing if it had any impact on any other addictive behaviors you might have had, like smoking, or drinking, etc. I find it very interesting that at high doses it 100% completely curbed my cigaratte cravings, as in, I didn't need or care about smoking at all. Although it could have been because everything else was just so 'interesting' (including my thinking processes) that I just 'forgot' to smoke. But if PEA has any place in nicotine or addiction treatment, I want to find out, and maybe I can turn my negative experience into something positive.
> 
> PEA really ruined me, i lost all my money in bad investments, lost a great job, and lost friends and embarassed myself. At least its good to hear i'm not alone.
> 
> Look forward to hearing from you.
> Satsumas


If pea works amphetamine would likely work too, it can only be used in combination with memantine and short breaks for tolerance isues.


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## trayhawk

I have to forward this by saying I haven't been on these forums in years. And really felt the PEA/deprenyl or MAOI-b was me...then I got a pm from a member here...incredibly how similar our stories were. and he like me (sobert off PEA since 9/2/2009) have recovered and maintained jobs. 

Satamus - and I apologize because I can't recall the gentleman's name whom I corresponded with - and this was a few years back - thank you. WHy? Your statement about anhedonia and not having interest in things the same manner you did BEFORE PEA - is true. ANd I am so sorry it took so much from you. It made me **** my grad school opportunity, take out 1000's inpayday loans, etc. that my family paid off, get fired from 3 jobs...

Now like I said im on nardil - whatever - take it or leave it BUT
im prescribed 600mgs provigil and 3mgs xanax - why? b/c I talked my docctor into it. I abuse it...its bad...similar to the ups and downs of PEA - actually no its not PEA is just a small tunnel you live in where your mind is immersed without your control into everything.

I can't justify taking more than 600mgs provigil but I will say...I function great on it...and the xanax(which I get no high from whatsoever) keeps possibly anxiety effects at bay. Im addicted to it..no question....Here's the deal though. Ill pay that price why? because I have interacted with and hadmore socializing - and more importantly the drive to be around be and not isolate when Im on it. Im not an idiot, i get **** done, work great, its an excellent anti-depressant...butttttttttttttttttttt........im not an idiot and Im honest with myself provigil (and yes I go upto 1500mgs some days) is replacing an addiction with another. But PEA made me isolate into a warped world - where as you say everything was interesting.

YOur point about not remembering anything you learned during the PEA high = 100 true

Ill be honest with you though and maybe this is just me. But the nautral innate interests passions, sports you watch, activities you enjoyed, etc. - at least post PEA - I've do not have nearly the same interest in them..that anhedonia...provigil helps..but im notcracked out....

How have you all been on here? 
sorrry for not respondingsooner

to rossija: you were respectful and I would have askedthe same thing. HELL NO i didn't know it converted to PEA. I was libid with my doctor and he was very good and truly listened and wanted to find a solution. I just coulnd't take the mass dosage of phenelzine (and there was no PEA high despite the the Phenelzine inhibiting both theA andB(meaning PEA) compounds. 

TO Satmus all I have to say is HOLY SH&* - what you said, in fact, I first glanced and thought I had wrote that especially what you say here, "bout PEA that made me do what I did, but I fell apart rapidly. Would stay up late, on the computer, researching everything (including pharmocology, supplements, meds). PEA's impact on my depression rapidly waned and I was still feeling "depressed" but also euphoric, a definite mixed state (i'm bipolar 2). I was screwing off at my job, taking PEA during the day to keep attention and focus, everything, and I mean EVERYTHIGN became interesting, it was a total information addiction, millions of browser tabs open at once, googling anything and everything. I would go on late night drives just so I could get my mind off my computer and let it spin with ideas," - 
THe it made everything interesting is the exact way to describe it. But


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## NYDLer

*Beware of this combo*

Knowing the risks but believing I had enough self control to not become dependent on this, I began taking Selegeline plus PEA in mid March 2012, just before a very busy period at work. I was suffering from low energy levels after getting off opioids following a surgery in late December, and this cured that problem. I noted the effects were short lived, but at first the "crash" was not bad. . . just felt like a return to baseline. By the end of May I was no longer taking days off. . . I think I went two straight weeks dosing every day, once per hour or so. Then I tried to take a day off. The first day was rough, but not as bad as expected. I supplemented with Modafinil. After the first day, I slipped into the deepest depression of my life. I stopped taking selegeline completely, so if I slip up and take PEA it only gives me a brief burst of anxiety but no euphoria or positive effects. But today I am getting rid of all of it. . . it really only makes me feel horrible now. I have a great job and great girlfriend and am afraid I could lose everything. The anhendonia is unbelievable. This combo is cheap, readily available, and therefore easy to abuse. I would not recommend it to my worst enemy. For anyone hoping to get this monkey off your back, the first step I recommend is to dispose of all selegeline. That will allow a taper as you slowly restore MAO levels and allow less of that PEA crap to get to your brain. If you have to work, you may have to taper PEA but it is best to get professional help. I have a psych appoitnment next week and primary care tomorrow. Will be completely honest and admit I need help. Be careful! I was somewhat addicted to opioids at one point, especially tramadol, and would take that addicition over this any day. I have never seriously wanted to die before, but I am staying strong because I know it is biochemical and it can get better.

Very early in my addiction, I read this thread but thought I could beat it. Do not make my mistake and take this as an adverisement of the efficacy of this. It was dangerous from the start, dizzy spells and had to go on blood pressure medication, but I kept going.


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## Sesquipedalian

Trayhawk sounds eerily similar to myself in terms of personality, medical experience, and addiction to brain-related chemicals. 

This is my first post here as I just joined in hopes that I would be able to find some answer as to what chemical I could use to replace modafinil, but found myself staring in the face of the realization that I am addicted to mind-altering substances in order to increase my productivity and intellect while decreasing my level of introversion that otherwise kept me from making any friends.

Without modafinil I have very little energy and no real desire to socialize at all. I've never been to a shrink, and it's been about 20 years since I've seen an MD for anything at all. I do have the Simian line on one palm though :afr

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for your post because otherwise I might have found myself seriously addicted to the PEA/Sele combination. I've got both, along with tons of other chemicals, not to far from me as I type this--I have simply never combined the two.


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## Alan B

I too am a PEA addict. It was not by itself addictive at first. Due to having suffered with CFS I started taking PEA and Deprenyl. This worked well for me although I did become dependant on it. Unfortunately, after several years I was out of work and I could not afford the deprenyl. I was emotionally in a bad place and I started to drink regularly along with constantly dosing PEA. I foud that several grams a day can get me high and takes away a hangover. I found that my drinking was connected to PEA use and I became a habbitual user of both. For me, without PEA, I do not need to drink and it is much less appealing. I would consume very large amounts of PEA each day and end up vomiting it out in the evening to enable me to sleep. It has still been a problem and I abuse it about two times a week. I always get drunk when I do this. It's quite possiby destroyed my relationship with my girlfriend who does not tolerate drinkers. I have just today dumped my whole supply down the drain and wish I had done so long ago.


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## WRATH

Yeah I've binged on REA sveral times. I take Nardil (Phenelzine- an irriversable MAOI) and switched from Marpln (Isocarboxazid, another irriversable MAOI) for depression and social phobia. The high can be extreme. Dangerous too, but once started can be as addictive as coke or speed. I have also used Pheylpiracetam, A powerful spychostim racetam nootropic. Easy to get online. Very similar effect. Not sure if the MAOI is needed for it the work but believe it definitely makes it stronger at least. When I became too intolerant to it I switch back. Ive done this on many occasions, and whenever ive decided to stop, the withdrawal effects are at least as strong as amphetamines!

A lonely addiction indeed.


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## beanangel300

I found myself using phenylethylamine (PEA) with deprenyl every other day this week, 300-450 mg, with 350 mg dose, about 3 times in a row being optimal with diminishing returns. The every other day thing makes me concerned. for the first 6-9 months I would take it about once a week which was fine.


Phenibut lasts 12-25.5 hours (wikipedia) and I noticed that if I took phenibut before going to sleep after phenylethylamine I felt much better the next day. It might make a difference in people who take PEA again because they might feel like they would like to feel ok without PEA.



Metoprolol, a blood pressure reducing medication you can get online without a prescription (365-rx .com is one place but there are others) might (or might not) reduce blood pressure on PEA, I am thinking about getting some propanolanol as well and doing measurements.



I am into technology and inventing things, and I would write up to 25 pages in my new-to-me invention technology and other beneficial things journal, and the prospect of thinking of 100,000 new things (50 things a week, 50 weeks a year, 5 decades = 100k new ideas is appealing and encouraging. Today I looked up phenylethylamine and addiction for the first time from the every other day usage. I thought of a few things that might (or might not) be of benefit to those that would like to use PEA less often or quit. They are all untested.


Schedule more things to do: Since I sometimes feel what I call "the day after phenylethylamine" if I schedule something, then I skip taking PEA the day before.


Deprenyl is an antidepressant that makes lab mammals live longer, so rather than quitting deprenyl I think I might start taking 10 mg deprenyl the day after phenylethylamine to see if it compensated for the "day after phenylethylamine" feeling.


Walk around more


Put the PEA outside the building I live in, sometimes I take it around 10:30 or 11:00 pm because I have trouble sleeping the day after: the day after PEA and I think something like "might as well have fun and stay awake until 5:00 am" so putting it outside the building seems like it might reduce impulsive use.


Any thoughts on what works to use it less than every other day?


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