# Are YOU doing CBT?



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi guys

Sometimes when I am filling in a CBT mood log, I have a hard time thinking of convincing rational alternatives, ones that really 'bite' deep down emotionally.

Does anyone else have this problem?

If so, I would love to hear what they are. So often I have found that when I tell my therapist the automatic thought I'm trying to beat, or if I subtley discuss it with someone, a fresh point of view can really help. After all its easy to be rational about other people's problems ...

I've noticed there are a few people doing CBT on here and it makes me wonder how many of us get stuck on the same thoughts ... If you currently have one you are stuck on, then I would like to hear it. Maybe guys on this forum can help us through with finding an alternative that really 'clicks'?? Hey, online group CBT therapy ...  

Ross


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## David1976 (Nov 8, 2003)

I think you can come up with a rational alternative pretty easily but actually making yourself believe it can be an entirely different thing...


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## lostwitness (Apr 11, 2005)

To believe it you need to add "Maybe", "Probably" etc. before the statements. You need to go neutral on your thoughts before you can change them around completely.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

lostwitness said:


> To believe it you need to add "Maybe", "Probably" etc. before the statements. You need to go neutral on your thoughts before you can change them around completely.


Hm this seems to make a lot of sense. I will try that.

"Maybe I don't need anyone to like me onboard this boat in order to be happy. Maybe I can find other things that give me an inner sense of happiness (like noticing when I do a good job even if others don't care) in order to bolster my self esteem."

It becomes an experiment, not a statement. I like that :boogie

Shamore, Bo selecta.

Thank you!

Ross


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## lostwitness (Apr 11, 2005)

Let me paste something from my CBT Handout, maybe this helps even more:



> Stay Rational.
> Go Neutral on your thoughts.
> Use "maybe", "possibly", "perhaps"...
> 
> ...


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Would you mind posting the whole sheet, or perhaps sending it to me as an attachment in an IM? I guess if you could post it then everyone gets the benefit!!

There are quite a few requests for CBT info on the board at the moment, it would be great to start the ball rolling for those who don't have a therapist yet.

I wanted to post about how to do mood logs, but I know its going to be massive ... I'm steeling myself for it!!!

Ross


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## Nuthatch (Apr 13, 2007)

:yes I get stumped like that all the time. Sometimes I keep battering myself over and over with the same positive thoughts, expecting them to work, but they just aren't effective anymore. I then get frustrated that I'm not feeling any better. :mum What I now realize is that I have to keep searching for new alternatives, like you said. For those of us who are farther along in CBT, not just any positive thoughts help. We have to find the right ones that really hit the target.



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Sometimes when I am filling in a CBT mood log, I have a hard time thinking of convincing rational alternatives, ones that really 'bite' deep down emotionally.


I've found that, sometimes, in order to really get that deep emotional 'bite,' in order to come up with a really effective alternative, you need to dig a litle deeper into why you feel the way you do. When you identify a negative feeling, try to really find out what it stems from. Do this by asking yourself more questions like: What does it mean about you that people may not like you? What does that answer, in turn, mean? Those may not be the right questions to ask yourself--sometimes it takes a lot of experimenting with questions to get deeper. But, my point is, try to go beyond your surface thoughts and really get to the root of the problem. I think the closer you get to the source of your anxiety, the more you'll find yourself being receptive to the positive alternatives you come up with.

Also, try writing as a way to get to a deeper level--I find that helps me a LOT. Thinking it through has never seemed to work very well for me, though I know it does for some people.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi Nuthatch (is it just me or is there a lot of adorability on these boards? "Nuthatch" awwwwwww! Tweet)

I know what you mean. I often arrive at what I feel are 'painful truths' when I do this though. I accept that sometimes I butt in on people, sometimes I come off arrogant, sometimes I want to be the centre of attention, sometimes I act like a know-all, sometimes I'm boring and lethargic and don't observe what others want to talk about ..... 

all these things are rather nasty things to accept about myself but I have to harbour the notion that they might be true. But if they ARE true, then **SHOCK** I must be like this ALL THE TIME because it seems I get the same reaction all the time. I suppose the word is selfish. But my whole body recoils at this word - what a horrible thing to accept about myself ... :sigh 

If I try to compensate in the other direction, well, then I become a rather insipid apology merchant that is equally unlikeable. I've also spent years and a lot of money on trying to learn social skills too. I fluctuate. Sometimes everything comes together, sometimes it sucks. But my major problem is any kind of relationship development - I can get on with people for maybe a day or so, then it all goes to the wall. 

I don't have the panic anymore, or the emotional outbursts, I just have the desire to avoid people (yet want them) and a lack of connection with them. 

Oh i dunno. I'm overgeneralising, disqualifying positives and fortune telling. I know all this - I just need that key belief.

This is where it gets tough - at what point are you being realistic about your own behaviour, and at what point are you being an SA driven, self-critical mess? 

Ross


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## lostwitness (Apr 11, 2005)

Hmmm the link I posted isn't working right now for me. It was about 10 minutes ago. If it's like this for anyone else try again in an hour or few, my host might just be down for a bit.

If it still doesn't work tomorrow I'll have to find another website to upload it on.


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## Nuthatch (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: re: Are YOU doing CBT?*

You like my nickname? Yay! :boogie

Even if all those things you say about yourself are true, you still can't judge yourself. You find yourself lacking because you're measuring yourself by comparing yourself to other people. But you can't do that. Because, the truth is, you're completely unique.

You have good, logical reasons for being the way you are, even if they're not apparent to you right now. If someone else had grown up as you did: with all your experiences, your temperament, your ideas, thoughts, genes, personality-that whole bundle that makes you YOU-who's to say that person wouldn't be exactly as you are? There's no one like you. And so how can you judge yourself and think you 'should' be a certain way when you really have no way to accurately measure yourself? Perhaps you _are_ boring, lethargic, arrogant, or whatever else you see yourself as. But there's a reason you're that way, and it's a good, valid reason. It's not because you're 'bad' or 'stupid' or that you're not trying hard enough.

I think you need to learn to accept yourself, even with your limitations. We all have limitations. No one is good at everything. All of us have flaws and imperfections-even those people with the most attractive personalities. Your limitations may just be more apparent and painful because social skills aren't something that can be faked. We SAers can't hide behind a façade like so many other people can, and so our limitations are out there for the whole world to scrutinize and judge. People can be extremely cruel, but if we just accepted ourselves, the opinions of other people would become irrelevant.

It's not easy to accept oneself, so I know where you're coming from. I struggle with it everyday. I constantly look toward others and compare myself to them to see how I 'should' be. And because those comparisons are so distorted and based on such poor information, I always find myself to be lacking and others way ahead. I'll never move forward that way.

So, my advice to you is&#8230; try not to compare yourself to others. Don't focus on what others are like or how you're lacking in comparison to them. Focus on you and your own growth. And if you don't see your positive qualities as anything great, it doesn't matter. Measuring yourself by weighing your positive and negative qualities isn't effective either-not now, because you'd never give yourself justice where you're at anyway. No, measure yourself based on how far you've come along; by how fast you're moving forward. And the fact that you're here and asking these types of questions is proof that you ARE moving forward. And so, who cares what you're like when you're changing and growing everyday? Your growth is what sets you apart from a lot of people, and _that's_ really something to be proud of.

Sorry for rambling on like this-I'm afraid I'm not too good at being brief. :duck But I hope there was _something_ in there that helped you.


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## IagainstI (May 15, 2006)

Awesome thanks lostwitness for the CBT handouts :boogie

I saved each part individually on my computer as htm files, but I was wondering if that's all i need to do? Once that page you put up is down, will I be able to still view those pages? or should I save it differently?

Also, my therapist talked to me about EMDR. I don't know if you you've ever heard about it, but I guess its used by finding the root of your problems or mainly bad memories that might constantly pop into your head and get you depressed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMDR


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Thank you Nuthatch

That was very tought through and considered - I really appreciate the effort you put in to help me out! Something kind of clicked when I read that, and yes you are right - I have accomplished a hell of a lot and grown hugely. 

My mum often says this to me - that I don't realise how far I've come, and that some people who have never suffered from these problems would have found what I've done difficult. I don't acknowledge this to myself enough and just keep cracking my mental whip - so thankyou for your words - i will try to apply them over the next week. That is now two posts where you have helped me out!

:banana 

Ross


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: re: Are YOU doing CBT?*



lostwitness said:


> Hmmm the link I posted isn't working right now for me. It was about 10 minutes ago. If it's like this for anyone else try again in an hour or few, my host might just be down for a bit.
> 
> If it still doesn't work tomorrow I'll have to find another website to upload it on.


It works, and you are indeed "Da E-bomb!!". Thanks for the info, will read with interest.

How good is this forum? I love :sas :banana

Ross


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## Nuthatch (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm so glad to have helped you! :banana


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## Steve85 (Oct 11, 2006)

In case people are wondering, those are the handouts from Dr. Richards audio series. It just so happens I am actually on a session where I'm missing one sheet, so thanks much for posted that!

If I were to suggest somethings about those handouts, I would read the ANTS Handout everyday. It has really helped me to realize my negative thoughts are false. In CBT you go through labeling your negative thoughts. The ANTS handout is there to then teach your mind that these negative thoughts are wrong. And thus, a lot of my negative thoughts have disappeared or just don't bother me anymore. I have found great success with this handout.

Next, I would read the Deserving Statements handout everyday as well. Sinking these rights down into your brain has helped. Also, don't be afraid to add a "maybe" or "possibly" or "It's possible that..." to any of these statements if you have a hard time believing them right off the bat.

Lastly, I think the Power Statements hand out is also very helpful. Basically it is there for you to question and challenge your current negative thinking. I've found good success reading this handout and then actually trying to answer the questions on them. It really challenges your thinking, and I find that very helpful.

Just some tips...


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

Some excellent tips when you are doing CBT on how to handle your maladaptive thoughts.


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## Marylandgreeneyes (Feb 10, 2008)

Whats the link for the CBT handouts? I cant seem to find it in any of the posts


Also, is the audio series worth getting?


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

The handouts were never online, Lostwitness had them and he dent them to me. I dont have em now, but in all honesty the info in them is beaten hands down by the Gillian Butler "Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness" book. If you follow that rigourously you will do very well. Its the second link in my sig and its 20 bucks from amazon.

I tried the audio series and personally did not find it as useful as the books I already had, and felt it took too long to cover things - but audio can help to cement some of the ideas. I just dont think 300 bucks is a fair asking price for what books can do just as well for a fraction of the cost.


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Steve85 said:


> In case people are wondering, those are the handouts from Dr. Richards audio series. It just so happens I am actually on a session where I'm missing one sheet, so thanks much for posted that!
> 
> If I were to suggest somethings about those handouts, I would read the ANTS Handout everyday. It has really helped me to realize my negative thoughts are false. In CBT you go through labeling your negative thoughts. The ANTS handout is there to then teach your mind that these negative thoughts are wrong. And thus, a lot of my negative thoughts have disappeared or just don't bother me anymore. I have found great success with this handout.
> 
> ...


I memorized the ANTS handout and recite it out loud to myself in Slow Talk just about every day. :lol


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> The handouts were never online, Lostwitness had them and he dent them to me. I dont have em now, but in all honesty the info in them is beaten hands down by the Gillian Butler "Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness" book. If you follow that rigourously you will do very well. Its the second link in my sig and its 20 bucks from amazon.
> 
> I tried the audio series and personally did not find it as useful as the books I already had, and felt it took too long to cover things - but audio can help to cement some of the ideas. I just dont think 300 bucks is a fair asking price for what books can do just as well for a fraction of the cost.


I can agree with that but having bought it(years ago actually) I try to get the most out of it. I haven't got the book you mention, I hesitate to buy another book I've got so many already. I really seem to have a tough time even identifying any automatic negative thoughts though, I just kind of make a guess at what they are. :stu


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

hmm. if you like i can give you a hand? PM me if you like


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> hmm. if you like i can give you a hand? PM me if you like


I can catch automatic negative thoughts during anticipatory anxiety type situations but when actually in an anxiety provoking situation it doesn't even seem possible to become aware of any background thoughts at the time, the physical symptoms and self-consciousness just seems so automatic and ingrained. But the problem may be I just don't come across many such situations in my normal daily life to try catching the background thoughts enough. I've got an appointment soon with a clinic where they do one on one therapy and group therapy specifically for SAD so I'll see how that goes. I might also get that book you mentioned some time it sounds like a good one.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

The Butler book has great sections on dealing with exactly what you have described there. You are right - you cannot, and should not, try to catch the thoughts DURING a conversation. Either do before or after 

The Gillian Butler book, IMO, is the very first book someone suffering SAD should be given. In the UK, doctors actually PRESCRIBE it.

Ross


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