# Botox for head tremor



## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

I heard botox is used to treat ppl with essential tremor, so I think it might be effective for my head tremor. How long does it last and how expensive is it? And do you think my neurologist will agree to use it for my SA symptom?


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

Umm..does anyone know anything about botox??


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## Fragmntedsilence (Jul 4, 2007)

akstylish said:


> Umm..does anyone know anything about botox??


 Botox? lol... It doesn't seem like most people here would be big botox users. I don't know much about it, except that it temporarily paralyzes muscles in the face. As I'm sure you probably know, it was originally created from the clostridium bacteria that causes botulism poisoning, which can lead to death due to respiratory paralysis. As for the cosmetic application of botulism, I'm not really familiar with it. Sorry.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Still cant help but think you are going way overboard with the head trmor thing, but hey I guess that just sounds insensitive. I dunno man. If your docs cant see it and no one actually ever points it out (apart from your paranoia about coughs) then MAYBE it is something you FEEL more than other people NOTICE ....

But hey post a little video of it, without any exaggeration, and let us be the judge.

i know nothing about injecting biological warfare agents into my own body.

Ross


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## arthur56 (Jul 31, 2005)

botox would only be a last resort after all other things have failed, learning relaxation should help


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Still cant help but think you are going way overboard with the head trmor thing, but hey I guess that just sounds insensitive. I dunno man. If your docs cant see it and no one actually ever points it out (apart from your paranoia about coughs) then MAYBE it is something you FEEL more than other people NOTICE ....
> 
> But hey post a little video of it, without any exaggeration, and let us be the judge.
> 
> ...


One thing I hate about psychologists is that if someone complains about something that sounds illogical, they ALWAYS conclude that he/she's paranoid. Well, I think they are the ones who are paranoid, even if they are right most of the time.

To give you some proof, I visited S. Korea to meet my friends last year. I was already suffering from head tremors and aware of every single cough I hear. But none of my friends EVER coughed in front of me at that time. Then I visited there again this summer,(my head tremor has got worse since last year) and every single friend of mine began to cough when they saw me. Same for my old teachers and relatives.

One thing even I don't understand is, however, that everyone I asked if they noticed my head tremble said no. This made me think I might be paranoid. But I still believe what I think because there's such obvious evidence that I'm right. Do you really think that everyone I met in my country began coughing this year because they all got cold or something? They might have said no because it's somehow difficult to tell me the truth or because their coughs are an unconscious response to my head tremor.

Plus, I found a few people here who complained about the same thing, and I'm sure there are more in the world. How the heck would they all become sensitive about coughing unless they hear it a lot more often after they suffer from head tremor? What kind of paranoid thought would make them think their head tremor makes other people cough?

I know you're trying to help, but I had to say this.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I'm sorry buddy, I know I seem harsh - its actually more 'frustrated empathy' than being an a-hole. Its just that this quote in particular, when you read it back, just doesnt make sense:



> One thing even I don't understand is, however, *that everyone I asked if they noticed my head tremble said no*. This made me think I might be paranoid. But I still believe what I think *because there's such obvious evidence that I'm right.* Do you really think that *everyone I met* in my country began coughing this year because they all got cold or something? They might have said no because it's somehow difficult to tell me the truth or *because their coughs are an unconscious response to my head tremor*


So _every single interaction_ you have goes like this:

*AKStylish:* Hi, my name is AKStylish
*Person:* Cough .. cough cough .. ahem hi AK ... cough ... how are .. a hack-hack-cough you?
*AKStylish:* Ohh nooooo ... 

What is the obvious evidence, apart from you hearing coughs? Given that SA makes people ultra-sensitive to tiny indicators of disapproval or rejection, i can't help but think that for you this takes the form of coughs. If you were ultra-sensitive to hearing coughs (because you believe them to be a proof that your head is wobbling), you will hear them 100 times more than someone who isnt, but conclude that what you notice is evidence of people seeing the tremor that everyone else tells you isnt there. Then you prove to yourself they are 'just being nice' or that they THEMSELVES are unconscious of it. How about this - if they actually were unconscious of it, and were telling you the truth about it being unnoticable, then you have nothing to worry about. No one notices it. Where is the need to worry if a) they dont consciously notice it and b) their response is somehow outside the sphere of normal human awareness?

Maybe you are more relaxed around friends and family and so not so wired up to notice the coughs ... SA is after all often worse around strangers.

So sorry, I still think you're a bit paranoid, especially after reading the above, but hey I'm talking out of turn. I still think you're a cool guy, I just dont like to see someone suffering when I think there might be a simpler explanation. And what makes me feel worse for you is that I just dont think you are going to have any luck getting someone to treat you if they are totally unable to see your head wobbling at all. If you tell them that EVERYONE notices it, and you know this because they all cough, they will conclude the same as me - that you are overly-sensitive to it. Anyway I'm not getting anywhere and I'm just offending and upsetting you so I will leave you to explore your options. The relaxation one sounds quite good.

And I'm not a psychologist - though I'm flattered you think I am.

Ross


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I'm confused as to how you connected head tremors with hearing other people cough. Do you think they're coughing BECAUSE of your head tremors? You're claiming you have "obvious evidence," and I'm curious what you've got as evidence.

From what I've read so far, at BEST, all you have is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (after this therefore because of this). I'm also seeing some strange, universal statements ("they are the ones who are paranoid" , "everyone I met" , for example).

I've got one more question that's puzzling me.... WHY would people intentionally cough when they see you?? I don't get it, and you didn't give an explanation.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I think we've upset him 

We are meanies :whip :cry I feel bad.

Ross


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Hahah, I hope he's not upset. Definitely wasn't my intention.

Nice whipping smilie.


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

Ok...forget it. I don't wanna explain the whole thing I'm going through again. I should've realized earlier it's impossible for anyone to understand me unless they're in my head. Anyway, I'm still gonna try botox and tell you if it works.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Well, I'm not you, but we do have language, which does a fair job at allowing us to understand each other. 

I read some of your previous posts from other threads, and I'm wondering if you at least intellectually agree that people aren't coughing because of you (aside from your feelings/fears that they are). 

To put it bluntly... The world doesn't revolve around you, and people don't care enough to put the time/energy into organizing a conspiracy against you to all cough when they see you. I didn't get the "Cough at akstylish" memo myself, and yet if I coughed near you, I'd be one of "them" wouldn't I? The sooner you see how silly this is, at least intellectually, the better your chances of breaking this phobia will be.

I wish you good luck with the botox, although I don't see how this cosmetic change will reduce either your anxiety or your cough phobia.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Botox stops muscles from contracting. It is used to paralyse the forehead muscles so that lines do not form or become less noticeable. AK is possibly considering injecting it into his neck.I cant remember what the doc said. Did he agree that you have essential tremor? I found this little snippet on the web:



> Close attention to where and how the tremor appears can help provide a correct diagnosis of the cause of the shaking. The source of the tremor can be diagnosed when the underlying condition is found. Diagnostic techniques that make images of the brain, such as computed tomography scan (CT scan) or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), may help form a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis or other tremor caused by disorders of the central nervous system. Blood tests can rule out such metabolic causes as thyroid disease. A family history can help determine whether the tremor is inherited.


Do you need a doc to send you for botox treatment?

Um hey I just had a thought - have you tried physiotherapy? It may help if you can have the muscles thoroughly worked over so at least the FEELING of the tremor lessens.

I honestly believe that you do FEEL your head is wobbling, but what I find hard to believe is the whole coughing thing. Its too random a way to react for EVERYONE to do it, and your theory that its a standard subconscious human reaction to a micro-wobbling head is just too far fetched.

Botox may well stop the muscles contracting, but you do realise that it PARALYSES muscles? I mean, I presume the muscles that actually cause the tremor are kind of used to support your head, or no? It also costs about $500 per treatment.

Ross


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## Fragmntedsilence (Jul 4, 2007)

I want to hear about how the botox goes for your problem. I'm always intrigued when potentially deadly bacterial toxins have useful applications. Plus I hope that it helps alleviate your tremors.


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## Jocelyn (Aug 10, 2007)

Hey! I understand!

Head shaking/tremor is my MOST DREADED anxiety symptom. It is awful and I know people notice because some have pointed it out to me and I have looked at myself in the mirror while it is happening. (In retrospect, probably not a good idea.)

The worse my anxiety, the worse the tremor.

I've even noticed, every once in awhile, I have very mild tremor when not anxious. This has had me questioning if there is actually something wrong with my neck muscles and anxiety makes it worse or if it is completely anxiety related.

Recently, I heard about something called Cervical Dystonia. I can't find the info I was looking at the other day but it said in mild cases, there would only be occassional tremor that was exaggerated in times of stress/anxiety.

As for Botox, it lasts approximately 3 months. I've been thinking about having it stuck in my forehead! :eek

P.S. Botox is used to treat Cervical Dystonia by way of injections in the neck muscles so, yes, it can be injected into your neck muscles. I don't know how well this would work for anxiety tremor. If you have it done, please let me know how it went. I'm not afraid of needles and if it would get rid of my tremor, I'd do it in second!


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## Jocelyn (Aug 10, 2007)

Moved up to earlier post.


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## americandancer (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm pretty sure I have a head tremor and this is the most terrible part of my anxiety disorder. Whenever I get very nervous or anxious I'm talking to someone, my head kinda trembles, like my neck can't support it fully. I can't really describe it, but is this what you all are referring to as a head tremor? :rain


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Head tremble is a very common physical symptom of anxiety and totally seaparate from essential tremor - what AK thinks he has.

With the former, when the anxiety goes, the tremor goes - thats why Ardrum and I are getting a little worried about people injecting biological warfare agents into their necks.

Anyways, just bringing the (always unpopular) positive side.

BTW I hate needles. You have more guts than me.

Ross


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## Jocelyn (Aug 10, 2007)

ross said:


> BTW I hate needles. You have more guts than me.


I'd rather have to be stuck with a needle every day for the rest of my life than to deal with SAD anymore. That's for damn sure!

I didn't think he thought he had essential tremor. Just that he was wondering if Botox would work for the anxiety tremor like it does for essential tremor.


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## americandancer (Mar 19, 2006)

Okay. I don't want anxiety tremor anymore, either. That to me is the absolute worst part of this disorder and the fact that sometimes I can control it and sometimes I can't. I do feel like everyone can see it when it happens, and at times like that, I can understand how people can do whatever it takes to stop it from happening. If botox works, hey, I'd try it to if I could afford it without shorting my family from their needs. Right now I can't do that. It is a very desperate feeling...the desire to stop it from happening. What besides botox and benzos can relieve it? I've tried cbt and that does absolutely nothing for that.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Has anyone confirmed that this procedure works for this condition?


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Botox is routinely used for voice tremors and spasms, and it is safe, easy to administer, and effective. I don't know anything about its use for head and neck tremors.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Jocelyn said:


> ross said:
> 
> 
> > BTW I hate needles. You have more guts than me.
> ...


I thought the opposite as he's posted about it in recent months, but hey I've been wrong before. Anyways, just my two cents worth.

Ross


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

My doctor is going to refer me to a neurologist tomorrow. Hope the neurologist is willing to administer botox.
And I got a suggestion for how to prove whether my theory is correct or not - I'm going to get a voice recorder and give another to my roommate. Then we'll record what's going on in our classes separately and compare how many coughs are heard when I'm present in class and when not. If the former is consistantly much larger than the latter, will you guys then believe me? I know it's not like my tremor will get better if you believe, but at least I will FEEL better.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

akstylish said:


> And I got a suggestion for how to prove whether my theory is correct or not - I'm going to get a voice recorder and give another to my roommate. Then we'll record what's going on in our classes separately and compare how many coughs are heard when I'm present in class and when not. If the former is consistantly much larger than the latter, will you guys then believe me? I know it's not like my tremor will get better if you believe, but at least I will FEEL better.


If you'd like to go forward with this test, I'd like to make some suggestions. Make sure it's the same class being recorded. I've been in classes where lots of people are coughing (or one person is sick and coughing excessively), and others where it is quite silent. You should use the same sample, which might make things tricky if you don't want to miss part of class. In addition, you should repeat this test over time so that you have many days' recordings to compile (ideally, at least 30). My final suggestion is that your roommate or some independent party decides what constitutes a "cough" and tallies them up. I'm just concerned that you might be prejudiced when listening to the tape in which you're present. Blind testing is best, so try to get a third party to count coughs who is ignorant of which tapes record when you're present or not. If you're familiar with statistics, you can then test for statistical significance (since it's extremely unlikely that the coughs will match exactly... so you have to determine how likely it is that the difference isn't merely due to random variation).

If you feel this testing is necessary, then I say go for it (although some people might disagree with me here). I just caution you to be as scientific as possible. Hopefully this testing doesn't become too intrusive in your life. Luckily, nobody will likely think much of this test since they could just as easily assume you're recording the lectures.


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## axiom (Jul 11, 2007)

I may have cervical dystonia too. I got an appt. today with a neurologist for a diagnosis. Atleast I'll rule it out if nothing. 

I have tremors too and my neck slightly tilts to the left... so I am thinking mine is a mild case probably. I get tremors when I am anxious. But it could also be just Essential Tremor because that runs in my family. 

Akstylish, my tremor in my neck is increased when I know other people can see me. For example when I am sitting in the front of the room in a classroom with the whole class behind me. 

But the treatment doesn't lie in botox or anything like that ESPECIALLY for minor cases where stress and anxiety are the cause. I think this is more psychological than physical. If you treat your neck... tomorrow you might get the problem in your hands or elsewhere and you might become conscious of that. Or more accurately you might become conscious of your hands shaking once, and it might happen again and again and turn into a chronic problem as you think about what other people think of that. 
The way to solve this is to challenge your emotional and mental relationship with the problem. When you actually accept or don't care what other people think unconditionally, the problem will stop! Challenge the source, not the symptom. Its difficult, but it feels damn good, I' ll tell you that!


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## jon67 (Jul 8, 2012)

*hand tremor & botox*

I have essential tremor of my head which just does not bother me but also of my right arm which complicates carrying things and seriously compromises my ability to write. I also need to make intricate movements in my profession and have to steady my right arm with my left. Medication (Antiseizure drugs and Mild tranquilizers) are not effective and I already take beta-blocker for hypertension, This is embarassing and awkward. Anyone have experience of botox in treating this?:afr


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