# Question About Homosexuality



## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm here for a _Christian_ advice on the matter, I'm not looking for what everyone else is saying, just an honest opinion. Is this something I should seriously pray over? I'm gradually trying to have a relationship with _Christ_, is this something I should maybe try to let go off, emotion/feelings wise. I'm just confused about a lot of things at the moment.


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## hoddesdon (Jul 28, 2011)

Leviticus 18:22


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

SmartCar said:


> I'm here for a _Christian_ advice on the matter, I'm not looking for what everyone else is saying, just an honest opinion. Is this something I should seriously pray over? I'm gradually trying to have a relationship with _Christ_, is this something I should maybe try to let go off, emotion/feelings wise. I'm just confused about a lot of things at the moment.


Yes, pray about it.
The sex acts of homosexuality is sin - that's written all over the Bible. However, it's the drive behind the sex acts that would need to be addressed. That "drive" is actually the need to properly connect with other men - that has become so strong at puberty that it became sexualized. It's about identifying in Christ and how other men identify with Christ.



iCod said:


> Not religious at all, but shouldn't your God love you for being who you are or whatever? And accept you for who you are no matter what?
> 
> Go and have fun with your life. Don't let all of this religious stuff stop you from being yourself and enjoying life.


 God loves His children and doesn't want them doing things that harm the soul. Homosexual sex is against God's design. He didn't make the backside for sex; it's for waste removal.

Would you tell an alcoholic to "enjoy life"? A heroin addict? A thief?



hoddesdon said:


> Leviticus 18:22


I Corinthians 6:9-11 .... REDEMPTION is in verse 11.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

That user "iCod" doesn't care about you, It's just what worldly people would say. You should ask God to cleanse you from homosexuality. I've heard Christians say that Jesus never spoke about homosexuality. But they must forget that the whole Bible is Jesus's word, not just the red letters. Both Old and New Testaments condemn the sin of homosexuality.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

@eukz I have Scriptural backing. This is NOT a thread for debate.

My statement does NOT make me a homophobe. I personally know men and women who were gay and are no longer identifying themselves as gay. Their voices are NEVER heard because of statements like the one you supplied.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Hey buddy, any of these users that are encouraging you to be a homosexual do not care about your soul. Even one user said to go to a church where homosexuality is accepted and seen as fine. Those are not Christian churches, the Pastors in those churches are just tickling the ears of lesbians and homosexuals. They only preach what they want to hear, fight against apostasy. Come as you are to God and he will cleanse you. The precious blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse you buddy.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

It is so sad to see users like that that encourage homosexuality. Homosexuality goes against nature, no one is born like that. People chose to be homosexuals and lesbians. The answer is found in (Romans 1), God gave them over to reprobate minds, to do those things which are not convenient.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Gojira said:


> Not everyone believes what you do.
> 
> Christianity tasks you with spreading the good word, not verbally stoning gays on the internet.
> 
> ...


Yes God is love, but that doesn't mean he is angry with sin because he is. God is love, just, holy and righteous. If you really cared about homosexuals you would tell them the truth.

Psalm 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.


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## gopherinferno (Apr 7, 2009)

heybrah said:


> So are you saying that gay men for example are sexually attracted to women?


actually i think a TON of denominations accept that being homosexual, in itself, is not a sin. homosexual acts, however, are.

that's how it was when i was a jehovah's witness. they railed against judging or banishing anyone for being gay, so long as they were celibate.

so this issue is, i guess, like....if you wanna be christian and you're straight, you gotta abstain from any kind of romantic relationships, sexual activity, and of course masturbation

i mean if jesus is a big enough comfort to be worth all that, it's your choice to be whatever kind of christian you like. but you can be full on practicing gay in a ton of churches now.

a lot of christians hate this "feel good" type of Christianity.

if you can handle the constant guilt and suppression of identity, it's not like homosexuals don't have a choice. they can go pretty much anywhere and say "hooray i'm a non-practicing gay bless my soul" but most can't stand living like that

for example, a lot of former jehovah's witnesses, in my experience, left the religion for a less extreme/severe/punishing version of christianity, and are a lot happier for it


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Just a reminder that this is a spiritual support forum. The OP asked for feedback from religious people. There are other forums for debating about religious matters. That should be pretty clear by now.*


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## OneSecToAnotherMe (Sep 8, 2015)

I'll just throw this in here, if you want a little bit of reading:

Walter Wink (Seminary Professor) on _Homosexuality and the Bible_
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1265

And

_The Bible Text on Homosexuality_
http://www.oberlin.edu/stuorg/quaf/events/tbtoh.htm

(You can obviously see where I stand. (There should be a smilie that waves a rainbow flag...))
Of course, I'm sure someone could post articles of the opposite view (of which I have read many).

Both sides are working with the same few texts...

To the original poster: I am glad you are asking. Sexuality is an important part of who you are as a person, but it's not the only part. Please take time to research this, to sit with this, to meditate or pray about this. You don't need to rush to a conclusion, but please let it be YOUR conclusion. Everyone is interpreting at the end of the day. Because it actually is impossible to flatly apply a two century old text to your life (as if the text had no original context or specific audience). Well, it's not impossible, people do it all the time. Anyways, that's my 2 cents.


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## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

I appreciate the helpful responses, & will take some of the advices given into thought, but as for others here.. I didn't come here for debate, it even says that on the Spiritual Support sub-forum in caps, I just asked for advice of fellow Christians; I'm well aware of the views of both sides of the LGBT debate, but I just wanted input from others in the Christian faith, while some Christians are difficult to deal with, some give helpful advice, that's what I was asking for, not a place for arguing. I don't diss people who aren't Christian either, I appreciate your passion, I too get frustrated at the religion on occasion, but I still wanted to hear other people's points, even if I may not like them.


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## Gojira (Jun 1, 2015)

andy0128 said:


> *Just a reminder that this is a spiritual support forum. The OP asked for feedback from religious people. There are other forums for debating about religious matters. That should be pretty clear by now.*


My bad, I just saw it in active topics, I didn't realize it was specifically Christian support.

I think most people go right to the content of the thread, they don't double check the forum and subforum it's in.


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## Aribeth (Jan 14, 2012)

Andres124 said:


> It is so sad to see users like that that encourage homosexuality. Homosexuality goes against nature, *no one is born like that. People chose to be homosexuals and lesbians.* The answer is found in (Romans 1), God gave them over to reprobate minds, to do those things which are not convenient.


wait what???


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Aribeth said:


> wait what???


I know right? Some people shouldn't be allowed to give harmful advices on this thread.


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## Subunit (Jul 13, 2015)

I'm gay and Christian myself. Never been in a relationship, but if the right person came along I don't think I would have any qualms about entering one as long as it is a faithful and lasting relationship.

Personally, I don't want to "have fun" or let my passions drive me, but living alone the rest of my life without the possibility of having a special someone to spend my life with is pretty harsh. If I'm wrong and it's against God's will, I hope God's grace at the last is sufficient for me too, in spite of my error. Yet I don't think I'm in error. I'm not a biblical literalist, but still evangelical and even old-fashioned in many ways. 

If any Christian thinks being gay is a choice, I can tell you with certainty that I never made any choice, being practically a 6'er on the Kinsey scale.
I don't mind opposing views at all, but there could definitely be a lot more sensitivity on this topic among most Christians.

Anyway, I hope you figure it out OP. I don't really want to lead or mislead you, but you're not alone at least.


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## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

Subunit said:


> I'm gay and Christian myself. Never been in a relationship, but if the right person came along I don't think I would have any qualms about entering one as long as it is a faithful and lasting relationship.
> 
> Personally, I don't want to "have fun" or let my passions drive me, but living alone the rest of my life without the possibility of having a special someone to spend my life with is pretty harsh. If I'm wrong and it's against God's will, I hope God's grace at the last is sufficient for me too, in spite of my error. Yet I don't think I'm in error. I'm not a biblical literalist, but still evangelical and even old-fashioned in many ways.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your reply, this & few other posters responses who I didn't get to, is what I'm talking about.. no arguing or debating, thank you for your reply:smile2: If you don't mind me asking, what is your relationship with _God_ like:smile2:


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## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

OneSecToAnotherMe said:


> I'll just throw this in here, if you want a little bit of reading:
> 
> Walter Wink (Seminary Professor) on _Homosexuality and the Bible_
> http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1265
> ...


& Thank you for the info, I will read over it when I get a chance:smile2:


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Gojira said:


> That's why imo, religion is a set of archaic, outdated philosophies that do not reflect true human nature nor normal, healthy human habits.


I don't know about that. Idol worship is the same, it's just different symbols.

Adultery is the same. Murder is the same.

Events in the Bible are the same - just the countries names have changed.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Subunit said:


> I'm gay and Christian myself. Never been in a relationship, but if the right person came along I don't think I would have any qualms about entering one as long as it is a faithful and lasting relationship.
> 
> Personally, I don't want to "have fun" or let my passions drive me, but living alone the rest of my life without the possibility of having a special someone to spend my life with is pretty harsh. If I'm wrong and it's against God's will, I hope God's grace at the last is sufficient for me too, in spite of my error. Yet I don't think I'm in error. I'm not a biblical literalist, but still evangelical and even old-fashioned in many ways.
> 
> ...


 @*SmartCar*

God's Grace is sufficient, but homosexual acts are a barrier to Heaven, just like all adultery (I Corinthians 6:9-11) - sin is death to the soul.

The issue is self-perception and having enough of an identity in yourself to not need to seek it in the same sex. That drive is subconscious that can be overcome.

There are churches that are Biblically sound - they are supposed otbe hospitals for the soul. The goal is the identity of Christ, not of this world. Do not be deceived (as Paul said) by churches that allow homosexual behavior; it's not inborn. Like I said, I personally know many people who have overcome it and there are people who can help.


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

*A load of posts have been deleted as there have been complaints they were derailing the thread. If people find this thread or posts offensive then the best thing to do is report it instead of turning this into another debate between believers and non believers on the issue of homosexuality. Now that's two occasions i've asked nicely so be kind enough not to derail the thread any further.*


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## Subunit (Jul 13, 2015)

SmartCar said:


> I appreciate your reply, this & few other posters responses who I didn't get to, is what I'm talking about.. no arguing or debating, thank you for your reply:smile2: If you don't mind me asking, what is your relationship with _God_ like:smile2:


No problem :smile2:

I was very close to God growing up, but our relationship went through a rocky period when I struggled over the question of my own sexuality. We never broke ties officially, but there was a time when I didn't pray, take communion or devote myself to study. After a while, though, I went back and resumed relations and worked through the issues I had.

The relationship I have with God isn't what it was before the "break". It's less emotional and has less certainty, but, I hope, it's also somewhat more mature. I feel my faith has been cut down to what's essential (i.e. love of God and neighbour), even if I in some ways know less now than I did previously. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense


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## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

Subunit said:


> No problem :smile2:
> 
> I was very close to God growing up, but our relationship went through a rocky period when I struggled over the question of my own sexuality. We never broke ties officially, but there was a time when I didn't pray, take communion or devote myself to study. After a while, though, I went back and resumed relations and worked through the issues I had.
> 
> The relationship I have with God isn't what it was before the "break". It's less emotional and has less certainty, but, I hope, it's also somewhat more mature. I feel my faith has been cut down to what's essential (i.e. love of God and neighbour), even if I in some ways know less now than I did previously. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense





> We never broke ties officially, but there was a time when I didn't pray, take communion or devote myself to study.


This right here:yes I feel like I've become distant because of that, that I'm afraid I'm going to lose something if I commit to _God_, & I guess I still have this hope, of one-day being in some relationship. Even though I usually don't dwell on that stuff, but nowadays a part of me kinda wants it, even though I feel mostly like a pendulum.


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## Subunit (Jul 13, 2015)

SmartCar said:


> This right here:yes I feel like I've become distant because of that, that I'm afraid I'm going to lose something if I commit to _God_, & I guess I still have this hope, of one-day being in some relationship. Even though I usually don't dwell on that stuff, but nowadays a part of me kinda wants it, even though I feel mostly like a pendulum.


I know the feeling, and I hope you'll be at peace with the decision you choose to make. In my experience God is always with us and forgives us even when we get it wrong. Not to say that we shouldn't care about getting it right, but that having the freedom to err (especially since things aren't always clear) makes the burden of choosing easier. What I feel sure of is that God would want to be part of your life either way.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Subunit said:


> No problem :smile2:
> 
> I was very close to God growing up, but our relationship went through a rocky period when I struggled over the question of my own sexuality. We never broke ties officially,* but there was a time when I didn't pray, take communion or devote myself to study*. After a while, though, I went back and resumed relations and worked through the issues I had.
> 
> The relationship I have with God isn't what it was before the "break". It's less emotional and has less certainty, but, I hope, it's also somewhat more mature. I feel my faith has been cut down to what's essential (i.e. love of God and neighbour), even if I in some ways know less now than I did previously. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense





SmartCar said:


> This right here:yes *I feel like I've become distant because of that, that I'm afraid I'm going to lose something if I commit to God, *& I guess I still have this hope, of one-day being in some relationship. Even though I usually don't dwell on that stuff, but nowadays a part of me kinda wants it, even though I feel mostly like a pendulum.


Everybody has that issue. It's not what you lose; it's what you gain. It has to be Biblically sound doctrine, though.

God does not want us to live in sin. He wants us to live like Christ.

God can restore the masculinity within men and femininity in women.


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## Brawk Shady (Jan 19, 2015)

I don't think it's one's fault if one is homosexual, but it's wrong to do homosexual acts. Homosexuality used to be considered a disorder; they would give people hormone shots in an attempt to help, but they didn't do so in a gradual manner. I would assume they give hormone injections, to people who want it, in a gradual manner now. I would only recommend this if you've had homosexual urges since you were young. The media sexualizes a lot of stuff, and I think it would make sense that sexualization of either gender can make one think of sex, and the brain would draw that connection after being exposed to it so much. In that case, try to avoid that ****.


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

I think it's funny as hell how the mod deleted half of the posts of this thread for being 'negative', yet they kept this extraordinary post in which this ignorant person claims homosexuality is a choice.



Andres124 said:


> It is so sad to see users like that that encourage homosexuality. Homosexuality goes against nature, no one is born like that. People chose to be homosexuals and lesbians. The answer is found in (Romans 1), God gave them over to reprobate minds, to do those things which are not convenient.


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## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

eukz said:


> I think it's funny as hell how the mod deleted half of the posts of this thread for being 'negative', yet they kept this extraordinary post in which this ignorant person claims homosexuality is a choice.


I agree that the choice thing is pretty harsh, I'm not gonna lie to you.. but I don't take it too personally like I used to.. I'm used to hearing that, growing up around different Christians, people have their opinions.. whatever, but I think that the thread was starting to become more of a debate, & that's why certain people were removed, remember it says in the sub-forum title.. _NOT FOR DEBATE_, just quoting.. not really yelling or anything.. I don't think a mod can delete one specific post from someone, depending on what it is exactly; anyways I'm the one who asked for people's honest opinions, so I don't take it to heart too much, I expected honest answers.


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

eukz said:


> I think it's funny as hell how the mod deleted half of the posts of this thread for being 'negative', yet they kept this extraordinary post in which this ignorant person claims homosexuality is a choice.


If you read the posts i made in this thread that will tell you all you need to know. There are other forums for *debating* sensitive religious issues and people who aren't religious shouldn't be coming into spiritual support trying to stir things up.


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## pepper2006 (Jan 9, 2015)

This thread is sticky. But I am a Christian and will say this. You can absloutly be loved by God and be gay. 100%. I am straight, and Christian, and if I ever thought my God did not love me for who I was, I would not be able to follow him. Yes, The Bible goes back and forth alot. (and I will not debate single Bible quotes, people will think what they thing and not amount of debate will change that.) But God is very clear when He says "We are made in his image" "We are all Gods children". He also says "To thy won self be true". and he says "do not lie." If you are truly looking to follow God you will be honest about who you are. On the flip side, if you look at the history of the Church you will find a number of historical reasons why Christianity made power grabs that would have made Homosexuality a problem (land ownership, who had power and money, ect.). Now, I'm not saying Christianity is bad (not at all, I love my faith). I would just suggest looking at the history of the Church and how it relates to the culture it was written in. Much love with your journey.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

pepper2006 said:


> This thread is sticky. But I am a Christian and will say this. You can absloutly be loved by God and be gay. 100%. I am straight, and Christian, and if I ever thought my God *did not love me for who I was, I would not be able to follow him*. Yes, The Bible goes back and forth alot. (and I will not debate single Bible quotes, people will think what they thing and not amount of debate will change that.) But God is very clear when He says "We are made in his image" "We are all Gods children". He also says "To thy won self be true". and he says "do not lie." If you are truly looking to follow God you will be honest about who you are. On the flip side, if you look at the history of the Church you will find a number of historical reasons why Christianity made power grabs that would have made Homosexuality a problem (land ownership, who had power and money, ect.). Now, I'm not saying Christianity is bad (not at all, I love my faith). I would just suggest looking at the history of the Church and how it relates to the culture it was written in. Much love with your journey.


That's the point - if homosexuality is a sin that can be overcome (I Corinthians 6:9-11), then "gay" is not the way we are made. Sodom and Gomorrah, days of Noah, and even Moses' time. In the New Testament, Paul was speaking to the people of Corinth, Greece - a hip and happening spot on the Mediterranean. He doesn't mince words.

It flat out says do not be deceived.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
New International Version (NIV)

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? *Do not be deceived*: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you *were*. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

It is a subconscious drive to reconnect from a lost or broken connection to same-sex relating growing up. The need for relationship isn't a sin - we were made to relate. It's when sex is involved that it can become a problem.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

The Bible is very clear on homosexuality, God does not agree with it. Yes, God does love homosexuals, but it doesn't mean he is ok with the sin of homosexuality. 
Leviticus 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Romans 1


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## Perspicacious (Jun 28, 2015)

millenniumman75 said:


> Would you tell an alcoholic to "enjoy life"? A heroin addict? A thief?


I think those people "chose" to be that way. Even if they were left with no other options, they did choose after all......unlike homosexuals (most, I guess) such as myself, and OP,,, tbh I don't know man.. I just think I'll never be normal and I'm starting to accept it as a fact. I just do not really want to indulge in any homosexual act whatsoever. And I'm not religious, Idk if I should wish I were or not, becuz I just can't seem to be able to be one.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Perspicacious said:


> I think those people "chose" to be that way. Even if they were left with no other options, they did choose after all......unlike homosexuals (most, I guess) such as myself, and OP,,, tbh I don't know man.. I just think I'll never be normal and I'm starting to accept it as a fact. I just do not really want to indulge in any homosexual act whatsoever. And I'm not religious, Idk if I should wish I were or not, becuz I just can't seem to be able to be one.


The drive behind homosexuality is the same drive as heterosexuality....just deferred because the needed same-sex identity foundation needs to be completed.

Homosexual is "heterosexually challenged" so to speak.

Can it be worked through? Yes, but the right relating and getting to know other people of your gender the right way (and not feeling uncomfortable about it) is the key. If the SA mindset can be corrected, so can a homosexual mindset.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> The drive behind homosexuality is the same drive as heterosexuality....just deferred because the needed same-sex identity foundation needs to be completed.


No.



> Homosexual is "heterosexually challenged" so to speak.


No.



> Can it be worked through? Yes, but the right relating and getting to know other people of your gender the right way (and not feeling uncomfortable about it) is the key. If the SA mindset can be corrected, so can a homosexual mindset.


No.

If you think it's a conscious choice to be gay, go try it.

To a homosexual, being sexually attracted to the opposite sex is as foreign as a heterosexual being attracted to someone of the same sex.

And since this is spiritual support, anyone who believes in the Bible's God(and Jesus) should know that you can pretty much do anything you want, as long as you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, and if you repent before you die. So don't worry...it's the believers who don't follow God's laws from Leviticus that have to worry.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

the cheat said:


> No.
> No.
> No.
> 
> ...


If you want to go to Heaven, you still have to keep His commandments and know Jesus as Savior. You can be saved, openly rebellious, and still not get into Heaven. That's lukewarmness at best and blasphemy at the worst.

It is written many times that homosexuality is wrong, and Jesus mentioned monogamous heterosexual marriage.

The drive to connect with people is not a conscious choice and is not a sin per sé (we were made to be relational, but it MUST be the proper way), but IS a reflection to foundational relating....it unfortunately explodes into the sexual realm at puberty. Any distortion in the relations between child and either parent can split into any eventual sin. We can choose not to do something.

That means that everyone is inherently heterosexual. The foundation is built and the adult comes out of that. A homosexual person can work to get his identity back through correct relating with other people of the same sex who do not struggle with homosexuality.


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## meghankira (Jul 30, 2015)

All sins are equal in God's eyes... and that includes homosexuality. Should you pray about it? Sure, just like you should pray about any other sin you are struggling with (for God to help you through temptations, to be able to resist, etc).


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> If you want to go to Heaven, you still have to keep His commandments and know Jesus as Savior. You can be saved, openly rebellious, and still not get into Heaven. That's lukewarmness at best and blasphemy at the worst.
> 
> It is written many times that homosexuality is wrong, and Jesus mentioned monogamous heterosexual marriage.
> 
> ...


I can't reply to your response properly in this thread, so I'll just shake my head and move along. Good day.


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

the cheat said:


> I can't reply to your response properly in this thread, so I'll just shake my head and move along. Good day.


Good choice. It's not worth. If you start a rational debate with these people the only thing that's gonna happen is the mod coming here to delete all of your posts and leave religious stuff untouched, like they were arguing with themselves.


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## lilyamongthorns (Aug 13, 2012)

God loves us no matter who we are or whether we decide to follow Him or not. But I highly encourage following God and trusting Him to give you a greater level of fulfillment and joy that this world can't give. Pray and keep praying. Prayer is your communication with the Lord and He will guide you.


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

eukz said:


> Good choice. It's not worth. If you start a rational debate with these people the only thing that's gonna happen is the mod coming here to delete all of your posts


This forum is not for debate or challenging members' beliefs. A lot of members seem to forget about that or they choose to ignore it. If anyone has issues with members' posts in this forum, then it's best to ignore them and move on.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f38/new-guidelines-please-read-10/

This post was just a reminder of the rules and not for a discussion so please just continue discussing the original topic.


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

shyvr6 said:


> This forum is not for debate or challenging members' beliefs. A lot of members seem to forget about that or they choose to ignore it. If anyone has issues with members' posts in this forum, then it's best to ignore them and move on.
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f38/new-guidelines-please-read-10/
> 
> This post was just a reminder of the rules and not for a discussion so please just continue discussing the original topic.


Yes I know the rules.

It's just sad for the confused users who come to look for advice in this place, and don't have the chance to read different opinions before having to swallow intolerant opinions. For centuries homosexuals have comitted suicide or been through worse because of religion making them feel guilty for who they are, and here religious users don't mind about this still happening in the 21st century.

I will just say that the rules might be a bit fallible in the case a user gives a controversial and dangerous advice and nobody has the right to question it, considering somebody's life is on the table.


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## Pompeii (Aug 25, 2013)

shyvr6 said:


> This forum is not for debate or challenging members' beliefs. A lot of members seem to forget about that or they choose to ignore it. If anyone has issues with members' posts in this forum, then it's best to ignore them and move on.
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f38/new-guidelines-please-read-10/
> 
> This post was just a reminder of the rules and not for a discussion so please just continue discussing the original topic.


There seems a delicate balance in this particular forum. A juggling act between "spiritual support, encouragement, inspiration and hope", proselytising and fundamentalist viewpoints. Given the unique membership here, the fundamentalist minority views all too easily tip over into discouraging, unsupportive and, as we see here in this thread, downright harmful.

Where do we draw the line between religious expression and harm to the community? Is there ever a situation where fundamentalism should be muzzled? How closely do we adhere to the spirit of kindness, generosity and togetherness envisioned by religion? I don't have answers or suggestions unfortunately; I'm just glad I'm not a moderator. :b


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## Tsuba11 (Dec 27, 2014)

At 17 I was in my first real homosexual relationship. I was a confused teenager trying to find a sense of identity and acceptance. 

I've always been attracted to both sexes... but somehow I always wanted to be straight, because for me, that was expressing the truest sense of naturalism regarding sexual relationships. Now, when I say the trust sense of naturalism, I am referring to "My Own Sense" of naturalism. To another bisexual or homosexual person, their relationship status may be perceived by themselves as natural. However, for me, I felt that I really just wanted to like the female gender. In other words, I want to have sex with a woman. 

The problem is... I play a lot of Bishoujo games. I do this to stimulate an attraction too and desire for opposite gender sex. I say "The problem is..." because despite how much I look at the natural sexual relationships a male and female in Hentai Bishoujo games, I never quite get turned on. If I see two females going at it, I am more intrigued and turned on by this. But I play these types of games because 1. It's probably the closest thing to sex that I'll ever get -_- and 2. I do this to get more in touch with the desire to be fully straight. I am trying to eliminate same sex attraction from my life, and it has nothing to do with religious values, it has everything to do with what seems to make sense to me the most in regards to naturalism. 

Despite being confused sexually, I feel that I am doing the right thing by confronting the issue, and desiring to want to have sex with a woman. This is right to myself. My personal sense of identity.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

eukz said:


> Yes I know the rules.
> 
> It's just sad for the confused users who come to look for advice in this place, and don't have the chance to read different opinions before having to swallow intolerant opinions.* For centuries homosexuals have comitted suicide or been through worse because of religion making them feel guilty for who they are*, and here religious users don't mind about this still happening in the 21st century.
> 
> I will just say that the rules might be a bit fallible in the case a user gives a controversial and dangerous advice and nobody has the right to question it, considering somebody's life is on the table.


Says who? A person doesn't have to be religious to be uncomfortable with same-sex attractions.

There are people with same sex attractions who kill themselves because they don't want the attractions and don't know what do. The Gay Rights Movement wants to get their claws on them for the sake of a number. I mentioned a different perspective that people want to dismiss. Closing off that possibly may be more dangerous than the "tolerance" you describe......which doesn't seem all that "tolerant".


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Yeah sure whatever...


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

Pompeii said:


> There seems a delicate balance in this particular forum. A juggling act between "spiritual support, encouragement, inspiration and hope", proselytising and fundamentalist viewpoints.


Yes, it is one for sure. For anyone wishing to discuss my posts, please discuss it in PM with a staff member. Future posts will be removed. Thanks, everyone.


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## desartamiu (Aug 2, 2015)

These comments make me so sad.


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## Subunit (Jul 13, 2015)

Christianity isn't just one uniform mass. Many see homosexuality as a sin, which has been made clear in this thread, but not all.

I accept that I might enter a lifelong and loving relationship with a guy at some point. That, in my opinion, is better than to constantly "burn with desire" to use Paul's own words. I can take my lust and re-frame it in a healthy package as straight people have the option of doing. What's the graver sin here? "Burning with desire", or faithful same-sex relationships?

Actually, I think a lot of the opposition to homosexuality is based on revulsion and confusion rather than because the bible speaks against it. When I think of heterosexuals I don't go around imagining what they do in the bedroom, whereas for gays that seems to be all people think about.
Many Christians have loose morals with regard to sex, remarriage and divorce, but homosexuality somehow still gets singled out as the worst thing possible and what will land you in hell. The double-standard is staggering.

Christ said: Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Matthew 7:1-3

Prominent theologian Stanley Hauerwas has said:
“As a society we have no general agreement about what constitutes marriage and/or what goods marriage ought to serve. We allegedly live in a monogamous culture, but we are at best in fact serially polygamous. We are confused about sex, why and with whom we have it, and about our reasons for having children. This moral confusion leads to a need for the illusion of certainty. If nothing is wrong with homosexuality then it seems everything is up for grabs. Of course, everything is already up for grabs, but the condemnation of gays hides that fact from our lives. So the moral ‘no’ to gays becomes the necessary symbolic commitment to show that we really do believe in something.”


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Subunit said:


> Christianity isn't just one uniform mass. Many see homosexuality as a sin, which has been made clear in this thread, but not all.
> 
> I accept that I might enter a lifelong and loving relationship with a guy at some point. That, in my opinion, is better than to constantly "burn with desire" to use Paul's own words. I can take my lust and re-frame it in a healthy package as straight people have the option of doing. What's the graver sin here? "Burning with desire", or faithful same-sex relationships?
> 
> ...


It's also a lack of understanding and only getting one viewpoint.

There is also the set of verses about believing lies and not being deceived. What feels good isn't always what is best for us. There is some inner inferiority or pain that triggers this issue. Blaming it on other's "judging" isn't always right.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Tsuba11 said:


> At 17 I was in my first real homosexual relationship. I was a confused teenager trying to find a sense of identity and acceptance.
> 
> *I've always been attracted to both sexes... but somehow I always wanted to be straight, because for me, that was expressing the truest sense of naturalism regarding sexual relationships.* Now, when I say the trust sense of naturalism, I am referring to "My Own Sense" of naturalism. To another bisexual or homosexual person, their relationship status may be perceived by themselves as natural. However, for me, I felt that I really just wanted to like the female gender. In other words, I want to have sex with a woman.
> 
> ...


And what I have boldfaced above is the whole point of what I have been saying - you should be ENCOURAGED to do this! You can resolve your issues with being attracted to other men when you know you have it all in yourself! You won't need to look to other men when you have enough confidence in yourself and can relate to both genders in a healthy manner. When that happens, you start becoming attracted to women.

Besides, the goal would be attraction to ONE woman anyway.


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## Metus (Dec 6, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> Says who? A person doesn't have to be religious to be uncomfortable with same-sex attractions.
> 
> There are people with same sex attractions who kill themselves because they don't want the attractions and don't know what do. The Gay Rights Movement wants to get their claws on them for the sake of a number. I mentioned a different perspective that people want to dismiss. Closing off that possibly may be more dangerous than the "tolerance" you describe......which doesn't seem all that "tolerant".


You may as well be speaking to a brick wall.

The scripture is pretty clear about about the division between the spiritual and carnal but in today's egocentric and nihilistic society there is no difference.

Sexuality IS the spiritual now. And the Scripture can be rationalized away, as it has for centuries to justify any sin. That much isn't new.

But the truth is, if you want to pursue Scriptural Christianity(instead of the superficial casual denominations that exist now) you need to understand that human sexuality unchecked is carnal and sinful. It's the corruption of a divine gift much like gluttony is.

This isn't merely a homosexual issue. Much of heterosexual sex that occurs now is sin. Some heterosexual "marriages" are also sinful as well.

Take into consideration the Scripture's very clear instructions in regards to marriage and divorce. Read the instructions in regards to divorces and what divorcees are required to do if they initiate a divorce without Biblical grounds.

Many "remarriages" are actually prohibited by the Bible and the couples that do may be committing BOTH fornication and adultery.

It's not just a "gay" thing. Sexual immorality is rampant and fractured families are approaching majority status in this country. And for this, homosexuals are not to blame. Many who are at fault dare to call themselves "Christian".


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## Metus (Dec 6, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> And what I have boldfaced above is the whole point of what I have been saying - you should be ENCOURAGED to do this! You can resolve your issues with being attracted to other men when you know you have it all in yourself! You won't need to look to other men when you have enough confidence in yourself and can relate to both genders in a healthy manner. When that happens, you start becoming attracted to women.
> 
> Besides, the goal would be attraction to ONE woman anyway.


It's not much different than what we straight husbands do in regards to resisting the allure of other women. Adultery is adultery.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Metus said:


> It's not much different than what we straight husbands do in regards to resisting the allure of other women. Adultery is adultery.


That is correct - ANY sex outside of one WIFE one HUSBAND marriage combination is sin. Marriage is supposed to be a one time thing.


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## SmartCar (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm amazed this thread has lasted this long


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

SmartCar said:


> I'm amazed this thread has lasted this long


Well, it's an interesting topic to say the least.



GiveMePie said:


> Staff Edit


Closed-minded or "not deceived". It was mentioned in the Bible for a reason.

I personally know men and women who have overcome homosexuality. They were "out" and even say how much of a lie the whole thing is. They are among the most interesting people I have ever met, truly fighting society's moral decline.

It's a far different perspective than the mainstream, because the Gay Agenda has been literally pushed into everything, and yet is completely intolerant of differing viewpoints....go figure.


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## GiveMePie (Sep 17, 2014)

"You personally know men and women who have overcome homosexuality" that's good for YOU i guess... the problem with that is that you don't know a person's intentions untill you walk in THEIR shoes... and im guessing it will be hard to accept that if some people still think that homosexuality is a choice. Ignorance at it's best.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

GiveMePie said:


> "You personally know men and women who have overcome homosexuality" that's good for YOU i guess... the problem with that is that you don't know a person's intentions untill you walk in THEIR shoes... and im guessing it will be hard to accept that if some people still think that homosexuality is a choice. Ignorance at it's best.


I didn't say homosexuality is a choice. We do choose who we sleep with or who we don't; that is a choice. The drive behind homosexuality isn't a choice, but a manifestation of *unmet* needs from childhood.

Ignorance at it's best? Really?


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## GiveMePie (Sep 17, 2014)

millenniumman75 said:


> I didn't say homosexuality is a choice. We do choose who we sleep with or who we don't; that is a choice. The drive behind homosexuality isn't a choice, but a manifestation of *unmet* needs from childhood.
> 
> Ignorance at it's best? Really?


 Yep, I didn't say you said that... If you read it I said "if people think that"


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## Barakiel (Oct 31, 2013)

I suppose then that the drive behind heterosexuality comes from unmet needs during childhood, as a result of poor interactions with the opposite sex?

That must mean bi/pan folks had a pretty awful childhood?

And maybe asexuals are the lucky ones who got along well with everyone as a child? :con


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## regimes (Aug 24, 2011)

Barakiel said:


> I suppose then that the drive behind heterosexuality comes from unmet needs during childhood, as a result of poor interactions with the opposite sex?
> 
> That must mean bi/pan folks had a pretty awful childhood?
> 
> And maybe asexuals are the lucky ones who got along well with everyone as a child? :con


as a bi person i had a pretty great childhood.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Barakiel said:


> I suppose then that the drive behind heterosexuality comes from unmet needs during childhood, *as a result of poor interactions with the opposite sex?*
> 
> That must mean bi/pan folks had a pretty awful childhood?
> 
> And maybe asexuals are the lucky ones who got along well with everyone as a child? :con


Actually, no. It's issues with the SAME gender.

Bisexuality is incomplete issues......they bonded more with the same gender than homosexually-inclined people. Hence the "spectrum" people talk about. Pansexuality is the "phasing" of attraction based on self-awareness. 
"Pansexuality" doesn't even make sense - that's technically still bisexual.
Asexuality is a completely different issue.


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## Metus (Dec 6, 2010)

GiveMePie said:


> "You personally know men and women who have overcome homosexuality" that's good for YOU i guess... the problem with that is that you don't know a person's intentions untill you walk in THEIR shoes... and im guessing it will be hard to accept that if some people still think that homosexuality is a choice. Ignorance at it's best.


I've often heard the argument that homosexuality is natural and innate but that gender identity and heterosexuality are social constructs. It's a common belief among the new wave of Cultural Marxists. Your appeal to personal experience("the personal is political") over objective sources is another common trait.

Anyway, we're having a discussion about how homosexuality fits into a Scripturally-based and Christian lifestyle. That's the TOPIC of this thread. Hence why it was posted in the Spiritual Support sub-thread.

Your argument goes far beyond sexuality. You're arguing for a Nihilistic philosophy in which Truths are "subjective" and up to interpretation("open-mindedness", which doesn't apply to the beliefs YOU disagree with of course). You miss the point that this philosophy is incompatible with Abrahamic religion. A point made by Frederich Nietzsche himself.

Indeed, a belief in absolute Truths and the morals and standards that it brings with it, is the foundation for any good religion.


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## Metus (Dec 6, 2010)

regimes said:


> as a bi person i had a pretty great childhood.


I've read research that indicated that women's sexuality may be more fluid than men's.

It seems that people STILL overuse Freud's theories on sexuality, which was founded on personal musings. Though childhood trauma can certainly impact people, psychosexual profiles are far too complex to be explained away by childhood experiences. This is also why the nurture vs nature debate persists in regards to it.


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## regimes (Aug 24, 2011)

Metus said:


> I've read research that indicated that women's sexuality may be more fluid than men's.
> 
> It seems that people STILL overuse Freud's theories on sexuality, which was founded on personal musings. Though childhood trauma can certainly impact people, psychosexual profiles are far too complex to be explained away by childhood experiences.


yeah.
freud has been largely disproved in the field of psychology anyway.
he was weird.


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## Cassoulet94 (Apr 3, 2014)

millenniumman75 said:


> I didn't say homosexuality is a choice. We do choose who we sleep with or who we don't; that is a choice. The drive behind homosexuality isn't a choice, but a manifestation of *unmet* needs from childhood.
> 
> Ignorance at it's best? Really?


So some people can listen to their "drive" while others can't ? Because they will be sinner, even if they don't harm anybody ? That's unfair.

As for your theory about unmet need, can I know on what data it is based ? Have you run some kind of study ? I want to know.

What about people who had unmet needs but who didn't become homosexuals ?


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

Given the topic, this is just going to continue to cause debates and posts on the harsher side towards members' beliefs which is not appropriate for this forum. Thread closed.


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