# The RPG genre - what do you like, hate or want changed



## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

I used to be a lot more into RPG's than I am today. Probably a combination of less free time and some aspects being a bit too samey. What would you change about the average RPG nowadays and what do you tend to like about them?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I don't enjoy linearity much in games anymore really, so openworld stuff is best and the more sandboxy the better. Anything with crafting in is good too and interaction with the environment around you. The option to own/build houses and vehicles as well. Wide range of skills, and lots of weapons/combat styles so you're not just stuck with one character type, for replay value.

They need a good story too, since I think that's the most important part of a rpg really. Obviously saving the world is a good plot idea, but it doesn't always have to be about saving the planet and yet that is often the main storyline. I suppose if you throw in enough twists it doesn't really matter though.

And I like it when games have a lot of lore and references to that lore in the game. That's obviously difficult for new rpg series' and a lot of players won't be bothered with it, so I can see why developers wouldn't bother creating massive histories and stuff when most players won't read/find out about that, but it is nice. Sometimes I just read through all the stuff about WoW characters on the wikia even when I'm not playing haha. I realise with some games it would just be pointless and unnecessary though, but maybe more with games that aren't set on Earth.

There are a lot of fantasy cliches that just get repeated. It would be nice to see a wider range of rpg environments like ones involving planetary exploration or more urban fantasy/sci-fi as well maybe. I don't think time travel has been explored as much as it could be either. A time travel rpg like Ape Escape but cooler and an rpg would be awesome :O

As much as I love elves they don't need to be in _every _ fantasy video game.. People should create new races of creatures that don't all ready exist more often.

Having said that I don't play a lot of games in general anymore so I don't know what might be available now, especially indie rpgs.

Oh and I don't see this very often now, but games that have a lot of cut scenes are so dull. Or where you seem to spend more time watching things than playing I just can't enjoy that now. Persona 4 was like that, and I just gave up with it. Supposedly it got better (as in more actual playing) but my attention span is just too bad generally for that.


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## To22 (Apr 6, 2012)

Real time action RPGs would be far more appealing if the combat was more life-like...
in the sense that real combat is far less tedious and predictable.


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## modus (Apr 27, 2011)

I'd like more RPGs like Mass Effect 3. It really has no competitors.

ME1 was rough around the edges, ME2 and ME3 were well-paced with good stories and improved visuals.

I love Skyrim, but I wish Bethesda amped up their storytelling. The main quest is always, always tremendously boring and the NPCs have awful voice acting and facial expressions. They always nail exploration though.

I think MMOs like Final Fantasy 14 are as good as RPGs get. So good that you really need to treat it like a second life. I have an RPG backlog at the moment, and I'm pretty satisfied with the current market.


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## CrimsonTrigger (Jun 28, 2011)

I think people will hate me for saying this, but they need to be shorter. 30-40 hours is a good length for a main story in an RPG because they don't drag themselves out any longer than they need to. Shorter can be even better if it's done right. That's why I couldn't get into Persona 3. I don't care much for story, but it took maybe 25-30 hours for the plot to start developing. That's ridiculous. It doesn't help that the gameplay up to that point is very light and consists of you doing repetitive day to day actions to run out the clock so you can finally start doing stuff. Nocturne, on the other hand, is a lot more fun because the game doesn't waste time with long, drawn out cutscenes and character development that's the exact same in every other game. It focuses totally on the world and the gameplay.

I also have no idea what happened to meaningful side-quests. I haven't played a modern day RPG yet where the side-quests aren't mindless kill and fetch quests. It's ironic that our technology is more sophisticated than it used to be, but somehow game content is suffering for it.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Need more isometric please. First person is not a good scene for RPGs.

Having said that, I'm eagerly waiting for the new Torment & Wasteland 2.


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## Gwynevere (Oct 6, 2013)

I want more diversity in rpg gameplay. It seems like everything coming out is skyrim in a different setting.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Persephone The Dread said:


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Zone said:


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exobyte said:


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CrimsonTrigger said:


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zookeeper said:


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Gwynevere said:


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A condensed version of what you guys said:

-Non-linear, crafting, interactive environments, story 
-Real time combat, or at least an interesting an interesting combat system
-Really good story telling
-No padding just for length, less repetition
-Isometric (3D models in 2d space?)
-less Skyrim clones

Would any of you be interested in trialing something? I've been working on an RPG framework of sorts - just the bare bones of a combat system. Appearance wise it looks like poop (the visual elements will hopefully be added later) it's just pure functionality at this moment. But I would be interested to hear your opinions on it, and what you might like to see changed.


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## modus (Apr 27, 2011)

Paper Samurai said:


> Would any of you be interested in trialing something? I've been working on an RPG framework of sorts - just the bare bones of a combat system. Appearance wise it looks like poop (the visual elements will hopefully be added later) it's just pure functionality at this moment. But I would be interested to hear your opinions on it, and what you might like to see changed.


Cool, is it pretty different from most stuff? I like experimental combat systems like Vagrant Story. Just anything different.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

No more adoring fan. Please, never again. 

I want better crafting systems. Kind of like the one in Morrowind.

More variety of weapons and armors. I hate the get to the next town to buy better weapons thing. Or forge the next tier armor set/weapons. I want choices, all the way through the game. Kind of like an arpg, but less cluttery itemization.

One thing i love is character interaction. Something like Baldur's Gate 2. Characters didn't always get along and could leave the party on their own.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Paper Samurai said:


> Would any of you be interested in trialing something? I've been working on an RPG framework of sorts - just the bare bones of a combat system. Appearance wise it looks like poop (the visual elements will hopefully be added later) it's just pure functionality at this moment. But I would be interested to hear your opinions on it, and what you might like to see changed.


So, is this thread just market research? Because, if so, you need to be up front about that.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

zookeeper said:


> So, is this thread just market research? Because, if so, you need to be up front about that.


Well I'm an RPG fan first and foremost, and I'm genuinely a little jaded with the genre. Which is one of the reasons why I decided to make something in the first place.

Market research sounds a little too sophisticated for one dude in his bedroom in my personal opinion :b But if you do feel this was underhand you have my apologies. I am working with a couple of other people right now on a simple smartphone game and a strategy/simulation - but this is entirely separate, just me fooling around basically.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Scrub-Zero said:


> *No more adoring fan. Please, never again. *
> 
> I want better crafting systems. Kind of like the one in Morrowind.
> 
> ...


 I like him because he annoyed everyone so much. I mean I never really found him that irritating. There are some funny videos of him being killed in creative ways though.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

exobyte said:


> Cool, is it pretty different from most stuff? I like experimental combat systems like Vagrant Story. Just anything different.


Thanks man! It's definitely more complex than the standard Final Fantasy [fight, item, run] combat system. I'm planning on it being more strategy orientated - but I need to find a balance, because I have a few too many ideas and don't want it to get ridiculously confusing.

I'm going to have something testable by this weekend I reckon, just needs a few more minor tweaks.


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## anomnomnom (May 28, 2013)

I enjoy the older Final Fantasy's up to X anyway

But one thing that always seemed a bit "slack" was the whole weapon upgrading

I dont mean the stuff they added to it like socketing materia.

But it was always go to next town, buy weapons with higher numbers on..repeat. I'm sure something more diverse could be done with them, ultimate weapons helped, they usually had unique abilities in 1 way or another, there should be more like that as your playing through the game though, not just towards the end when you only get to use it on the last few bosses/extra content. (I quite like dark souls method of different types of weapons being more effective on different enemies, It got fiddly having multiple "good" weapons but it added something at least)

I've played a lot of JRPG's..but frankly I can't bloody remember many of them, I'm sure some have done some really interesting things with weapons that I've probably just missed, but still..pet hate!

(Oh after all that I've just seen someone else already practically said that, reading is fundamental) 

I think I'd be mirroring what others have said, a more complex crafting system would be good. Less linear, corridors are tiresome. Armour? I'm thinking of FF again now where you didnt really change appearance, but I enjoy trying to make decent looking sets, ala diablo with the combination of transmog and dyes, you could be wearing some low level crap but in the right colour/combined with something else you'd look badass :b

I'm sure if I wasn't so knackered I could write here for ages but that'll do for now :b


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## Salvador Dali (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm more into Western/Action RPGs than JRPGs, so I'll list what it is I enjoy in those games:

*Hands-on-combat:* I never liked the combat in Dragon Age: Origins, it felt more like an MMO. I don't like clicking a few buttons and watching my character fight for me, I prefer to take full control. I've always enjoyed the combat in the Dark Souls series.

*Open world/freedom:* The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are some of my favourite RPG series, and the main selling point for me is the amount of freedom and vastness of the world in those games. You don't have to follow a strict path, or have to make sure you complete all the side-quests in one area before doing the main quest which moves you onto the next area, locking those side-quests until your next play-through.

*Game changing choices:* A lot of the 'choices' you make in RPG games seem to just lead you down the same route, so you don't actually have a choice no matter which dialogue options you choose or whether you side with the Elves or the Dwarves. Sure, you tend to get big game changing choices, which lead to you perhaps one of three different endings, but that's the thing - it never feels like there's a huge amount of choice in a lot of RPGs, and just getting a different ending is not really my idea of 'choice'. Getting an almost entirely different plot depending on what you do or say sounds like a lot more fun.

*Interesting story:* It isn't a deal breaker if a game doesn't have a great story, as long as the game is still fun otherwise. But some of the most memorable games and questlines have been the ones with good storylines, regardless of the gameplay.

I would add more, but I think this is already long enough.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

I'm first and foremost a strategy fan. But I like occasional RPG, mainly in an RPG i think open world and an in depth story makes it great. I've always liked the idea of crossing genres, so a strategy, RPG hybrid would be amazing.


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## Marko3 (Mar 18, 2014)

Salvador Dali said:


> I'm more into Western/Action RPGs than JRPGs, so I'll list what it is I enjoy in those games:
> 
> *Hands-on-combat:* I never liked the combat in Dragon Age: Origins, it felt more like an MMO. I don't like clicking a few buttons and watching my character fight for me, I prefer to take full control. I've always enjoyed the combat in the Dark Souls series.
> 
> ...


wanted to write similar stuff and then i saw ur post.. i agree totally :yes


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

in skyrim, i can be the head of every guild, kill someone's family, ransack their house, and they'll still give me quests as if none of these things were true. this probably shouldn't happen! more reactivity to and exclusivity of choices, please!

also less emphasis on combat/ make pacifism viable plz thanks


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

lots of attributes for character building


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## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

Other than DA2, I've been really impressed with the Bioware style.

For me it would be: 
- extremely involving story/characters (I actually felt like they were my real friends/lovers in Origins & ME2 & 3). I genuinely cared for my crews welfare, and loved individually touching base with them after missions.

- a highly developed "ripple effect" of my dialogue choices and actions. Bioware have done well, but this could be pushed even further.

What Bioware has been lacking is the open-world of Bethesda titles.

I always get bored of Bethesda games. It just gets too monotonous - go here, get this... it wasn't there so go here instead... here's 5 side-missions to distract me even more from where I want to get. One mission just seems to run into another without much accomplishment/gratification in between. It becomes a chore and I usually just end up slaughtering whole villages for fun, get killed and never play it again. On the contrary, I never wanted the Bioware games to end, and felt depressed for a week once they were over.

I'm also not a fan of being able to "master" everything. I preferred the old days where you picked warrior, mage etc, and were stuck in those factions. Again, it's just a more realistic experience.

I hate 'across the board' scaling too. Oblivion was terrible for this. It's OK for a few main characters etc to scale-up with you to some degree, but not a goblin at the bridge... or the whole native fauna changing relative to your level. Took the thrill out of finding loot.


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

Ok this is a huge thing for me. The biggest problem about the majority of today's RPG's is that they are far too linear, they do not have you play a role the way you want as a result, and are often FAR too action based that takes away from the games. They sucked the complexity of the genre out and replaced it with ****ty linear pathways. Look at Baldurs gate 2 in comparison with dragon age series..... its just completely dumbed down. It is no fun when you remove character customization and in depth stats / spells / combat. I want a challenge and the freedom to play how I want, not how the dev THINKS I should play. I want different alignments, chaotic / neutral / lawful. I want many races / classes. I want turn based combat. I do not want enemies that level with you appropriately, I do not want determined routes set out for me, I do not want my hand held, I do not want to play a game filled with cut scenes!

I find myself playing rogue like games such as (ADOM, DungeonCrawl StoneSoup, ToME) which are all FREE to play true rpgs and I think they are light years ahead of any big budget RPG. The only modern day RPG I like is dark souls.... and thats because it gives the freedom to play the role how you want.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

I agree with the attributes. I'm fed up of strength, intelligence and dexterity. It would be great to be able to get free stuff from NPCs or talk your way out of fights with a silver tongue type of character.



fingertips said:


> lots of attributes for character building


Also Ti-Chi is the best martial art in the world. :b


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Also Ti-Chi is the best martial art in the world. :b


Heh. More a fan of ju-jitsu myself. :b

For anyone interested in what I posted earlier in this thread. I'm going to provide a small preview of the tech-demo I've been working on soon.


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## LK 89 (Oct 30, 2011)

I like rpgs that have world maps, because it makes the game feel more like an adventure. Turn-based combat and permadeath are also important.


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

Actual immerse storytelling. Where you have a list of dialog options that drastically change the outcome of events. Some games have tried, most just end up being gimmicky. Dragon Age came pretty close to doing it right but the game felt kind of slow. I realize the amount of hours a dev would have to put into a game to make this happen would be daunting, but well worthwhile.


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## Aribeth (Jan 14, 2012)

Most RPGs = Not enough cruelty for my tastes. I want to slaughter innocents (with special cutscenes and everything) like in Jade Empire, VTMB, KotOR I/II. And to hear my party members' disgusted reaction towards me. I really get a kick out of stuff like this


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## fury5 (Nov 11, 2013)

I enjoy Eastern RPG's very much. Some have problems here and there, nothing to be too concerned about. If I'm dissatisfied with anything it's that Final Fantasy isn't as good as it once was.

I don't enjoy Western RPG's pretty much at all. I think the closest I got to enjoying one was when playing Dark Souls, which I still put down fairly quickly. The look, feel, and immersion just isn't there for me. I guess when I compare the two, the difference comes down to "I don't want to live in that world". And to be clear, it isn't about where it's from. Where it's from just tends to generally dictate how it is.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Here is my biggest complaint about RPG's. I stopped playing Fallout 3 and Deus Ex for the same reason. Somehow I find myself fighting enemies that I am too weak to defeat. I should have done more to level up before coming to this point. To fix it, I have to go back and find an old save game and try a new path. 

No thanks. This is just bad game design. 

Oh, and they are too long. When I see I've spent over 30 hours on a game it makes me really question what I'm doing with my life.


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## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm interested in RPGs and open world games the most out of all games. What I'd like is a better combat system. RPGs rarely innovate in terms of combat and are almost always behind more linear games. Take Skyrim for example. Great world, great lore, but very basic combat system. Especially the sneaking mechanic, which is a shame, since I love playing as a thief/assassin a lot more than a tank or a mage. Another thing is character development. Some more linear RPGs have good characters and character development, but the open world ones always have such boring characters. The whole point of an RPG is to get immersed in the world and feel like you're there, but I can't do that when all the character are so one dimensional.

Another thing I'd like is more actual role play. We need more RPGs with a good player home system, good trading and more hard core RPG elements like the need to eat and sleep. Those are simple things not even strongly linked to core gameplay, yet they make the game so much more immersive and like you're actually in the world.

I wrote a lot more than I thought I would :um


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

AngelClare said:


> Here is my biggest complaint about RPG's. I stopped playing Fallout 3 and Deus Ex for the same reason. *Somehow I find myself fighting enemies that I am too weak to defeat. I should have done more to level up before coming to this point. To fix it, I have to go back and find an old save game and try a new path. *
> 
> No thanks. This is just bad game design.
> 
> *Oh, and they are too long. When I see I've spent over 30 hours on a game it makes me really question what I'm doing with my life.*


Oh I like that, I mean it's frustrating as hell but it feels realistic. Maybe not the save game bit though... Just leaving and training and then coming back preferably.

Also love long/open ended games


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## ThisGirl15 (Mar 1, 2014)

What I want to see is a bit more realism to medieval RPG's. I know that this is weird considering it is fantasy and therefore you can be creative in it, but I would like to see more variation. 

What I mean is cultural wise. RPGs are usually flooded with just European-esque sort of cultures and I think it would be interesting to have a RPG that took place in a culture like Africa, Asia, Middle East, etc. and to take from the mythological creatures of those places. I also want to see more variation in religion. There's always these deities that are clearly based off the Greek Gods or Norse Gods that everyone within the world worships. There's never any questioning of a high powers existence or atheism/agnosticism. I want to see more monotheism, animism, religions based of the Eastern religions, ancestral worship, etc. I don't think I've ever come across a medieval RPG where the main religion believed in reincarnation and that the world is one universal soul, etc. 

I was mostly talking about western RPGs and now I'll talk about Eastern RPGs. The only complaint is that they tend to still make you grind in order to move forward in the story and it annoys me so much. :/ I really hate grinding.


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## BJam (May 6, 2014)

I used to be into the genre a lot more, but I honestly haven't played an RPG since the Mass Effect Trilogy. Like some others have said, I don't like linear stories anymore; it's much more engaging when you're able to make game changing decisions. I still like enough structure to allow for a well-crafted story, however. I find the Elder Scrolls series to be almost too large and open ended, and the story is rather generic and boring. I'd rather they focus on a tight 20-40 hour story with enough replay value to play it through more than once.

I also wouldn't mind if RPGs were a _bit_ more challenging. I know that some are hard, but for the most part it's a fairly easy genre to play through... I think I played through Mass Effect with only dying once or twice, and I'm not really a huge gamer these days.


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## shortcake (Sep 2, 2012)

Salvador Dali said:


> *Game changing choices:* A lot of the 'choices' you make in RPG games seem to just lead you down the same route, so you don't actually have a choice no matter which dialogue options you choose or whether you side with the Elves or the Dwarves. Sure, you tend to get big game changing choices, which lead to you perhaps one of three different endings, but that's the thing - it never feels like there's a huge amount of choice in a lot of RPGs, and just getting a different ending is not really my idea of 'choice'. Getting an almost entirely different plot depending on what you do or say sounds like a lot more fun.


*THIS*

I love having different choices and thinking about what my characters would do, but when you later realise that none of the choices you picked made the slightest bit of difference (except a different ending/maybe some NPC comments if you're lucky) it's just like.. what was the point of letting me pick in the first place?! :mum


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## deuss (Dec 15, 2012)

I dislike turn base. I got a taste of open worlds and it'll never be the same.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Like I promised a preview ! But like I originally said it doesn't look to great, just crappy 2d sprites for the most part. However, I can easily switch these out for 3D models or stylized isometric if I get some artists on board.










As you can probs guess, it's a turn based tactical RPG kinda like Fire Emblem, Shining Force or Final Fantasy tactics. The underlying logic (programming code) is actually mainly intended to work with 3D models so maybe one day I can get it to look like:










or










That's the dream anyway :'-)


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Created a 3D mock version of the exact same screen shot above. Everything is the same except basic 3D shapes instead of sprites. (with all the game logic still functioning)


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## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

have you considered having a 3d playing field with billboard sprites? (like ff tactics)


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

fingertips said:


> have you considered having a 3d playing field with billboard sprites? (like ff tactics)


That's not a bad idea - so 3d environments with 2D isometric characters(?). I'm a very subpar artist though, and what little art stuff here has taken me ridiculously long to do! As I said above, if I can get a dedicated artist or 2 on board with this I'd pretty much let them have complete control over art direction because it would save me a lot of time and stress. programming to me is almost therapeutic, art and design on the other hand is near torturous


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## Fizzypop (Mar 4, 2014)

ThisGirl15 said:


> What I mean is cultural wise. RPGs are usually flooded with just European-esque sort of cultures and I think it would be interesting to have a RPG that took place in a culture like Africa, Asia, Middle East, etc. and to take from the mythological creatures of those places. I also want to see more variation in religion. There's always these deities that are clearly based off the Greek Gods or Norse Gods that everyone within the world worships. There's never any questioning of a high powers existence or atheism/agnosticism. I want to see more monotheism, animism, religions based of the Eastern religions, ancestral worship, etc. I don't think I've ever come across a medieval RPG where the main religion believed in reincarnation and that the world is one universal soul, etc.


I know you posted this a while ago but if you are looking for an rpg that isn't heavily influenced by western culture then you should check out Jade Empire by Bioware. That game has a lot of Chinese mythology packed into its world and characters. Probably one of the more unique games Bioware has done setting wise. The combat was pretty different too and not just the fact that it was all martial arts.

As for what I think about rpgs. I hate hate hate restrictions. I do not like being forced into factions (especially a problem in a lot of MMOs). I really like playing the role of a mercenary and being free to fight for whoever I please or no one at all. It's one of the things I like about EvE online, there are 4 empires in the game and you are free to choose which empire you would like to fight for or you can not ever get involved in faction warfare at all. I also do not like race restrictions. I can understand one race not being able to use magic because of lore but I do not like situations where I am not able to play with someone simply because the race they want to play is locked to another faction.

The Souls games happen to do a lot of things that I wish to see more of in rpgs. Like no character classes. I don't want to have to roll another character just to try a new set of skills plus it's fun to mix and match. If I want to be a teleporting rogue that can shoot lighting from his fingers then let me do that. I also like the way the combat is in the souls games. Combat doesn't feel "hack and slashy" like in the Elder Scrolls games because every attack feels like it actually has weight and seem more deliberate and less like mindlessly swinging a weapon around.

I could go on but I have typed too much already. Only other things I'll add is more varied settings. Not enough modern day, sci fi, etc. settings being used in rpgs. I am also tired of seeing giant spiders (or giant bugs in general) everywhere. I don't like the look of them and it is such a tired trope. Ooooh boy another cave/forest of spiders, how exciting.


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