# Masculinity and Femininity: Where do you best identify?



## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Here's your stereotypical list of common traits to get you thinking. This isn't an exhaustive (and potentially open for debate at times) list, but it gives you the general/common viewpoint of what these terms tend to signify.

Answer the poll according to how strongly (or not strongly) you identify with the words (regardless of the brainstorming list below).

Masculine: aggressive, independent, hiding emotions, objective, dominant, math/science orientation, active, competitive, logical, business-minded, direct, adventurous, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: emotional, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, passive, illogical, home-oriented, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious, interested in one's appearance, neat in habits, strong need for security, enjoys art/literature, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

I'm a biological male and mostly feminine, like 90% woman, 10% man.

The only things manly about me are that I'm hairy and unclean, and I'm majoring in physics. In addition to the feminine traits you mentioned, I also like girly music, and I'm attracted to people who are biologically female but mostly masculine. Be a female who's ...



> Masculine: aggressive, independent, ... objective, dominant, math/science orientation, active, competitive, logical, business-minded, direct, adventurous, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, ... loud, sexually aggressive...


... and witty, but not hairy and unclean, and I will probably fall in love with you.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

So is this the hacker vicente or the real one?

I think im starting to feel aroused, whoever you are.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Based on how I personally identify with them, I would say "I'm male: I'm significantly feminine, and not significantly masculine" (although the word "significantly" is too strong).

Using your brainstorming lists, though, I'd go with "neither" (9/23 for masculine and 13/25 for feminine).


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I abstain because of the random anger that this topic for some utterly inexplicable reason generates in me.

Gerard - shadow element! I need help


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## psycho killer (Jun 23, 2008)

definitely feminine, although i am quite sloppy (i try to hide it!).

why would you say that 'objective' is considered masculine while 'subjective' is considered feminine? i'm not sure what you mean by that.


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## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

Neither.. though I am more guy like. There is next to nothing girlie about me.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

^^ I think youre girlie, but you might not like me saying so

Cat things are girlie. And you are cat girl :yes Mreowr


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## Lyric Suite (Mar 16, 2006)

vicente said:


> I'm a biological male and significantly feminine, like 90% woman, 10% man.


Then you are probably biologically female in parts. It was Otto Weininger who first proposed the idea that human beings are neither biologically male or female but a mixture of both, in various degrees, and that was a hundred years ago! (of course, Weininger was a genius, and infinitely ahead of his time).

Scientists are slowly finding this out, like that recent research where it was found that homosexuals have a brain structure closer resembling that of females rather then straight males.

As for me, i'd classify myself as masculine, with certain latent feminine traits (which would explain my interest in music or my absolute lack of interest in sports outside of martial arts). I'm also very hairy and untidy, so there.


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

However I'm NOT a homosexual, but I'm a feminine guy who likes masculine gals. What does that make me? Is my brain structure a male one or a female one?



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> So is this the hacker vicente or the real one?
> 
> I think im starting to feel aroused, whoever you are.


That was me, the real Vicente, but Hacker Vicente says he is aroused and would also like to hook up for some sexy time, on Friday night he says.


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## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> ^^ I think youre girlie, but you might not like me saying so


Take it back take it back! :b


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

.....OOOhhhhhh!!!! ...I must say, Adam, that I DO LIKE this thread. ...very much.

However: I cannot vote. :stu I will try to explain...

(-Having said that: YOU ARE A LEGEND, ADAM! -for making up such a thread, when most individuals are too insecure to think of it  )

Now to my 'explanation' of who I am... :lol 

I just don't seem able to define my self as one or the other. 

In some ways I am so very typically 'feminine' ...very much so. Examples are... I was absolutely obsessed with girly stuff like "Anne of Green Gables" :mushy :mushy and "Gone With the Wind". :mushy ...I had a REAL hard time with maths, initially (when I excelled at pretty much everything else); I also just DO NOT take to Physics. ...And instead, Art is my best ever subject and always has and always will be. I was also pretty good at English -at speech, spelling, writing essays, etc. 

O.K. ...now, on to the more complicated stuff... :sigh 
...and you've probably heard me say this before...

I used to have massive crushes on the 'typical macho types' of guys. (I'd call them "Mick Jaggers" -and was in fact obsessed with Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones throughout my early 20s). ...But I never really GOT ALONG with these guys ...and, interestingly, they seemed to feel the same way about me. 

...My suspicion has been that they are somehow TOO SIMILAR to my self -that I am somehow, like their 'female counterpart' - their SISTER, in a sense. 

Because, I would react towards their advances (after months of lusting after them, occasionally flirting with them) by actually becoming completely physically paralysed: I struggled to understand it. ...And I would have dreams about them: always with the theme of stabbing them in the chest with either an icicle or an ice pick ... yep: just like in "Basic Instinct".

...These nightmares traumatised me for some time... I looked up what they meant; and I found the explanation that I apparently was: "Highly out of touch with my masculine side, or I hated my masculine side" ...and so dreamt of killing it (him). And that I projected this onto males instead of recognizing it within my self and 'owning' it as part of my self.

...Well, o.k.- lot's to say here- and there really is!!!... I began this whole stage of self discovery. ...I went from despising the same kinds of guys that I had adored (the "Mick Jagger" macho types); to slowly -and painfully!!.. discovering, that ironically, all along, I kind of was actually the same as them.

...It was a total revelation for me to realise it. BEcause for so long, I just could not find my self able to relate to the 'male perspective'. ...Initially, of course, I didn't bother even thinking about it!!! -MAcho attitudes just didn't particularly 'bother' me. ...and then ,something happened - and "Pandora's Box" opened -and all the repressed matter came through.

...And I discovered, that in a sense, I was a bit of a 'man hater'. ...Which is funny, because I really 'loved' men.... 

Well, there is way too much to explain ...and it probably doesn't even matter... What I do know is that I finally found it POSSIBLE to empathize with the 'Masculine sexual point of view" ...whereas, before, I had found this pretty much impossible. And I had blocked it out. ...But I found it in my self.

...In fact, I will go further to say that I actually thought TOO MUCH like "Macho types" of guys. ...I could 'switch' into their mode of feeling, much more than I was comfortable admitting to. 

And then ....I quit being scared about it. And I learnt ...through painstaking effort and perseverance ....to let it be a part of my self. Instead of continuing to dissown it and reject it.

...Anyhow... I guess that my point is that I sort of don't even know what "masculine" and "feminine" even are any more. I am me. And I do know that I am now comfortable with my sexuality ....after all of that heartache and difficulty! :yes


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Very cool, Ruby. You've put a lot of thought into this!


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> Very cool, Ruby. You've put a lot of thought into this!


....yeah: I have.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

I'm female: I'm neither significantly masculine nor feminine nor human.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

LostInReverie said:


> I'm female: I'm neither significantly masculine nor feminine nor human.


..then you are an alien, like the rest of us,


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

LostInReverie said:


> I'm female: I'm neither significantly masculine nor feminine nor human.


Ooooh, what are you?

I'm a cross between leprechaun and hobbit (mostly the former).


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

mserychic said:


> yeah_yeah_yeah said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ I think youre girlie, but you might not like me saying so
> ...


shant

uh uh

nope

:kma


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

I'm male, and I have many superficially masculine traits, such as sloppiness, harsh language, competitiveness, and situational aggressiveness. 

I have a general sensitivity, to my feelings, other people's, heat/cold/noise, etc, that is more feminine, I think. I've also gone through a couple of assessments that consistently point out thought patterns and ways of expressing myself that are more typically feminine. 

Of course I react to these assessment results by cursing and making a mess.


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## SilentLoner (Jan 30, 2006)

Female here. I'm am attacted to guys. But in behavior and attitude I've always been more masculine. Was a tomboy growing up and still am, no girlishness in me whatsoever. 
I always wear jeans, plus I like wearing guy t shirts - can't remember the last time I worse a skirt.
Behavior-wise, I tend to bottle up emotions and I've never cried in front of other people. Don't open up easily either. Plus I've always gotten a kick out of physical fights - one major reason I took up boxing (I dislike watching sports though).

I find I get irritated with other girls if I see them acting overly "femenine" its just always annoyed me, don't know why.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

ardrum said:


> LostInReverie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm female: I'm neither significantly masculine nor feminine nor human.
> ...


Three quarters monster, one quarter demon.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I am sulking


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

I have thought for a while over the relationship between feminine and masculine.

I've observed A LOT of contradiction ...it just is NOT at all like how people/society tends to define it all.
In fact, I prefer the American Indian view of gender and sexuality (and other similar indigenous peoples) -they had the view of gender and sexuality as being ALL mixtures of masculine and feminine. They would call homosexuals 'two spirit' people. And homosexuality was just ONE of the 'in between' genders.

This is such a spiritual look -seeing all as 'in between'- and it is highly advanced, like a lot of ideas of "primitive" peoples often are.

Anyhow...

I have just observed things like how some very macho guys, really hung-up on keeping the separation between masculine and feminine -yet, whilst they may have this outlook, they seem to forget or ignore just how very feminine they are in certain ways.

I also notice that men tend to be more paranoid about homosexuals than women -women are usually more relaxed about other gay females. 

And I think that the intuitive understanding that "The Big differences" are actually in fact, small emotional differences -sits better with women than it does with men. Probably this has a lot to do with society and its strictness on men to be macho. Though, I also think that women have pressure -still even now- to not cross over and have a "masculine sexuality" ...i.e. they still get called "****". 

To my mind: wherever there is ONE, there is the other. If you are very "masculine" you are also very "feminine". ...This needn't be confusing because being BOTH at the same time doesn't mean you do not have an identity/gender/sexuality. You must definetly do. ...The point is that, seeing BOTH in yourself and being in touch with what Jung might term as your "Anima/Animus" (the unconscious aspects of the other gender/sex within yourself) actually makes you more yourself. And instead of 'weakening' your specific sexuality (whether it be 'more masculine' or 'more feminine') it in fact does the opposite.

..Most of the time, I figure people supress and repress 'the other' both within themselves and which they see in others. ...This is a losing battle: that always eventually backfires.

And likewise, the approach of "Primitive" peoples is the most evolved and intelligent. It actually maintains and respects every opinion and person. (I think I also read that such societies also had a low incidence of sexual abuse. ...though, not always, and not all of them had such an accepting approach to sexuality, either...)

One other thing that I have suspected for some time is that there is also a link between being highly heterosexual and being homosexual. -I think that this follows the pattern of their being 'small emotional differences' behind all those 'big differences' we tend to view dividing masculine and feminine (in our society).

Some examples I can think of are...
-how some heterosexual males (and at least one I noticed, was also quite paranoid and intolerant of MALE homosexuals) actually tends to find "lesbian" women attractive -probably, likewise has the belief that 'they aren't really gay' ...and I put this down to him sensing the intuitive fact of 'the big differences' being based on 'small emotional ones' -i.e. he himself, as a strong heterosexual, is close to being homosexual: he knows this about women as well, which is why he finds lesbians attractive and also cannot stand the thought of himself being homosexual, which is the reason for his hatred/intolerance of MALE homosexuals
- A study reported on in "New Scientist" magazine, revealed that, on average homosexual men have both a more masculine physique and bigger (or longer... I can't remember now!) penises than the average heterosexual male. (perhaps this is also why often women are initially, at least, attracted to gay men -sort of "super heterosexuals" they are. 
- One other example, is one of "The Most Heterosexual Men" of our times -Sir Mick Jagger, was known to have dressed in drag. This was in fact before the band "The Rolling Stones" became famous (and he then went on to have sex with God knows how many women!!)

...Well, I won't go on any more. -Can you tell this is one of my favorite subjects?!! :lol


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## LonelyEnigma (Jan 7, 2007)

*I'm male: I'm significantly BOTH masculine and feminine.*

*Masculine Side*
Attracted to very feminine girly girls. Worked many hard, manly jobs like construction and hard labor. Served in the U.S. Marine Corps Infantry. Strong, fast, built, tattooed. Can be vicious toward aggressive, disrespectful, dangerous men. Can speak profanely and act tough when around manly men. Not afraid of most men. Know how to fight and handle weapons.

*Feminine Side*
Dislike watching sports like football and baseball. Get emotional when I watch certain movies. Will not engage in casual, random fornication. I only desire long-term, loving relationships. Prefer to listen to love songs and light classical. Enjoy watching PG movies. Passive, shy, insecure, and compassionate when around lovely ladies. Soft-spoken. Rarely speak about sex and think manly fu*k stories are disgusting and annoying. Dislike players. Dislike contact sports. Would much rather spend an evening discussing philosophy with a nice lady than drinking beer and having shallow discussions with guys. Don't like to get dirty. Dislike most guys because of their lack of respect toward ladies.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> - A study reported on in "New Scientist" magazine...


Ooh, my brother was interviewed for an article in New Scientist last month! :yes


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

RubyTuesday said:


> -how some heterosexual males (and at least one I noticed, was also quite paranoid and intolerant of MALE homosexuals) actually tends to find "lesbian" women attractive -probably, likewise has the belief that 'they aren't really gay' ...and I put this down to him sensing the intuitive fact of 'the big differences' being based on 'small emotional ones' -i.e. he himself, as a strong heterosexual, is close to being homosexual: he knows this about women as well, which is why he finds lesbians attractive and also cannot stand the thought of himself being homosexual, which is the reason for his hatred/intolerance of MALE homosexuals.


I'm not sure that is right, you are thinking too much into this. Guys are simple.

1. Heterosexual guys like females and their body parts.

2. With lesbian couples, there are twice as many of those parts and no males around.

3. Maybe one day they will be looking for some guy and being their neighbor they will ask you to join them. Well, that may not happen in real life. :um :lol


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I estimate that traits for both categories are distributed fairly evenly within the manly, yet supple, super-fox that is Drella.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Classified said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> > -how some heterosexual males (and at least one I noticed, was also quite paranoid and intolerant of MALE homosexuals) actually tends to find "lesbian" women attractive -probably, likewise has the belief that 'they aren't really gay' ...and I put this down to him sensing the intuitive fact of 'the big differences' being based on 'small emotional ones' -i.e. he himself, as a strong heterosexual, is close to being homosexual: he knows this about women as well, which is why he finds lesbians attractive and also cannot stand the thought of himself being homosexual, which is the reason for his hatred/intolerance of MALE homosexuals.
> ...


 :rofl


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

LonelyEnigma said:


> *I'm male: I'm significantly BOTH masculine and feminine.*
> 
> *Masculine Side*
> Attracted to very feminine girly girls. Worked many hard, manly jobs like construction and hard labor. Served in the U.S. Marine Corps Infantry. Strong, fast, built, tattooed. Can be vicious toward aggressive, disrespectful, dangerous men. Can speak profanely and act tough when around manly men. Not afraid of most men. Know how to fight and handle weapons.
> ...


...with sport: I LOVE playing sport (especially soccer); but often don't tend to like watching it as much. -Though I am really enjoying watching the Euro UEFA cup!! ...usually, though, I get put off of sport on t.v. and then revel in playing it.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Interesting overall poll results. There's a pretty even distribution of results from males. There are not many females identifying with masculine though (only 3 out of 16).


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

I think I'm a good mix of both feminine and masculine and weirdness and cheesieness and impulsivity and stuff.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

What are little boys made of?
Snips of snails, and puppy dogs tails
That's what little boys are made of !"
What are little girls made of?
"Sugar and spice and all things nice
That's what little girls are made of!"

Why challenge the flawless logic of a playground poem when considering culturally accepted universal character traits of the sexes?


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

A lot of it is taught growing up, yanno? Like boys are supposed to like this and that and not like that cuz girls are supposed to like that. its a bunch of crapolla.

Like my son, he went to see "mermaids on ice" or some **** recently with his nan and girls cousins. His boy cousins must have been saying things to him afterward, like making fun of him for going. cuz he was saying "I DON'T like mermaids. I like boy things like (and started naming boy things" so I explained to him that he can like whatever he wants. Sometimes I'd like to bang those two kid's heads together (his cousins).

A lot of things like this influence what we feel is right to like or not like. 

When really, we need to embrace and accept ourselves fully and everything we are and like.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

In addition, I think that when exposed this kind of conditioning and our true feelings and incilnations - even ones as simple as liking Mermaids on Ice - are pushed 'underground' they sit there and fester ... the natural desire in humans to not feel controlled by another can actually push us TOWARD the things we are being told not to like ... adding to confusion, doubt and shame. Im not ALLOWED to like tis .. but I do ... Oh noo I must be strange! I must be weird!

But still its nice to see lesbians on the front of our tabloid newspapers, and to have those newspapers at a level where our children can see them. Lets just not have any gay men kissing please. Thats just wrong - everyone says so, so it must be true. None of that gayness please.

But maybe its hard wired into us. I* havent seen the raw data of this experiment to confirm its validity, or seen the peer reviews to check that it is accepted science*, _(never trust one *isolated *reported conclusion, no matter which news network it comes from. Science aint sceince til its been repeated by others with the same result)_ but apparently an experiment was done to see what types of pornogrpahy aroused heterosexual males and females. They used biological feedback markers to determine this - eg blood flow to the genitals.

What they found was that men and women were turned on and off by the same things. Both men and women were aroused by a MAN AND A WOMAN and A WOMAN AND A WOMAN. Both were turned OFF by A MAN AND A MAN. Does this suggest a natural biological predispotion to the acceptance of lesbianity, and rejection of homosexuality in men, in the heterosexual population? *Or is it conditioning?* REPORTED arousal indicated that only a few women denied being aroused by lesbians even when their bioligical markers said the opposite, and the majority did not. The majority of women admitted to, and experienced, arousal when viewing lesbian porn.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

Hmmm I wonder if I would be turned off watching a man with a man? I think maybe I would if it was in a loving way and they were decent looking ppls (like not dirty looking helps :b ). I'm picky with the ppl in the porns and what does it for me, is seeing and knowing the two ppl or three, whatever, involved are like REALLY into it with eachother. REallly wanting each other. I saw a good one last night (one good scene). 

Anyway I will experiment though and check out some guy guy stuff and see what its like. Like I said, I"m picky but if its a good one, I think I could potentially be aroused. For me, its about the intenseness of the scene, picture, whatever...and stuff.

is it grounds for baninnation to talk about this stuff? I hope not. :um


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

LOL

What have I started ..... ?


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

RubyTuesday said:


> I used to have massive crushes on the 'typical macho types' of guys. (I'd call them "Mick Jaggers" -and was in fact obsessed with Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones throughout my early 20s). ...But I never really GOT ALONG with these guys ...and, interestingly, they seemed to feel the same way about me.
> 
> ...My suspicion has been that they are somehow TOO SIMILAR to my self -that I am somehow, like their 'female counterpart' - their SISTER, in a sense.
> 
> ...


I think most straight women with strong masculine sides are out of touch with it and hate it. That's why bad girls always hang out with even badder guys, and not regular guys, let alone sissies like me. So yeah, your behavior seems to make lots of sense. With lesbians it's different cuz it's more acceptable (within the lesbian community) for a woman to go all masculine.

Now that you' ve come to accept who you are, are you still mostly attracted to macho bad boys? Or are you more open to regular guys? Would you ever consider dating a sissy like me? :lol


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## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> What they found was that men and women were turned on and off by the same things. Both men and women were aroused by a MAN AND A WOMAN and A WOMAN AND A WOMAN. Both were turned OFF by A MAN AND A MAN.


umm guy + guy = hott! Just had to throw that out there.


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## ANCIENT (Aug 9, 2005)

mserychic said:


> yeah_yeah_yeah said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ I think youre girlie, but you might not like me saying so
> ...


I agree with yeah yeah yeah, you are VERY girly.


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## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

I think we all have different ideas of what girlie is! Lets break it down from the list. I'm bored at work and need something to do :lol

emotional - overly so thanks to being borderline but I don't show it
subjective - much more objective
submissive - not so much
disliking math/science - I love science
excitable in crisis - I'm really good in emergency situations
passive - thanks to SA I come off that way
illogical - more logical
home-oriented - meaning like family? not at all
sneaky - not really
feelings easily hurt - again thanks to my borderline
difficulty making decisions - not usually
crying easily - rarely, rarely cry
dependent - somewhat because of SA
talkative - haha no
tactful - try to be
gentle - usually
empathetic - very
aware of feelings - indeed
religious - not at all
interested in one's appearance - nothing further from the truth
neat in habits - sloppy as can be
strong need for security - not really
enjoys art/literature - sure
expresses tender feelings easily - don't express any feelings easily
nurturing - can be

See.. not girlie :b


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I suppose what we are saying really is we think you are cute :yes


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> What they found was that men and women were turned on and off by the same things. Both men and women were aroused by a MAN AND A WOMAN and A WOMAN AND A WOMAN. Both were turned OFF by A MAN AND A MAN. Does this suggest a natural biological predispotion to the acceptance of lesbianity, and rejection of homosexuality in men, in the heterosexual population? *Or is it conditioning?* REPORTED arousal indicated that only a few women denied being aroused by lesbians even when their bioligical markers said the opposite, and the majority did not. The majority of women admitted to, and experienced, arousal when viewing lesbian porn.


...Don't wanna intrude on your conversation, guys :lol -But, I must be an unusual woman!!! :lol ...I saw some (very soft) gay love/porn show about a group of gay men who meet every summer to hang out. And I rented it again, I liked it that much! :lol ...My mum walked in, during the scene when they were all dressed as ballerinas and she looks at me and says: "Are you weired or something?" ... :lol :lol 
..Yeah: maybe I am :kma

Then of course, there is "Cruising" with young Al Pacino ( :mushy :yes )
And some other gay (soft) gay porn show I watched featuring really tough men in a prison -often doing fight scenes and one guy escaped. (It got too rough in one scene and I had to change it though: don't like that!)

And there were a couple of others...

One time when I told a friend of the family about watching "Cruising" (or one of them) she turns and says: "I'm worried about you".

...That's nice: cos I'm not 

One other thing: I actually read studies that showed that, whilst viewing porn, women's pupils dilated more than men's. ...though, this study was old, and perhaps before the explosion of internet porn: so perhaps an explanation would be that women simply were less exposed to such material.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

vicente said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> > I used to have massive crushes on the 'typical macho types' of guys. (I'd call them "Mick Jaggers" -and was in fact obsessed with Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones throughout my early 20s). ...But I never really GOT ALONG with these guys ...and, interestingly, they seemed to feel the same way about me.
> ...


...I find that I can be attracted to a fairly wide variety of people now. It's almost as if I can change what I like about people. 
Like I still appreciate what is attractive about "bad boys" but I also like "good guys" and all the guys in between!!! :lol

I don't really know. What I do know is that I am less governed by 'need' and am more free to 'choose'.

-It's interesting that you wrote that most women with strong masculine sides tend to suppress this! :yes


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Nooooooooooooooo my masculinity/femininity thread has been infiltrated with porn talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> Nooooooooooooooo my masculinity/femininity thread has been infiltrated with porn talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


...sorry, Adam. ...It was a number of years ago now. I was probably going through a phase. ...Now I have Anton to lust after :yes :lol !!


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

> Nooooooooooooooo my masculinity/femininity thread has been infiltrated with porn talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL well be glad i didnt post my two page rant on gender trait classification 

Anyway there are laydeez here talking about the 'p' word .. your thread views from dudes will sky rocket!!


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> > Nooooooooooooooo my masculinity/femininity thread has been infiltrated with porn talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> LOL well be glad i didnt post my two page rant on gender trait classification
> ...


The 'p' word!! :roll ....how old fashioned!!!!

Nothing wrong with pornography. ...Really, it should be called 'erotica' -though I guess people like the suggestion of 'forbidden' or 'dangerous' or 'wrong'!!

...I'm just glad I don't buy into such crap!! :b  :lol


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Okay then

Pornie porn porn porn

Willie

Happy? 

:lol


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

...Very.
:troll 

... :lol


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

This is like talking about Tibet in China..... Please stop!


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

k

bottom



"Give in to your anger... With each passing moment, you make yourself more my servant.... ...Good... I can feel your anger."


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Yes, Adam!!!! ...My Son, I AM YOUR FATHER!

Condoms, pornography, homosexuality and extra marrital sex is forbidden!!

(Now, as an Atheist: How do you like that?)


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

And he fancied his sister to start with

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

"Mmmm the paxil is strong with this one ..."


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

...damn! -can't get my picture of the Pope to look bigger (someone commented on his resemblance to the dark lord in Star Wars)


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> This is like talking about Tibet in China..... Please stop!


...The Chinese SHOULD talk about Tibet. Maybe then they'd face what they're doing and come to some kind of resolution.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I'd so join the Dark Side if I were Luke.... What a stupid, pathetic loser he was to not join his father and overthrow Old Man Emperor to rule the galaxy as father and sun.

Blasting electricity around with the Dark Side is so much better than lines like "I can feel the good in you." (BARF!!!!)

Further thought: Who is the emperor's master, if hatred makes one a servant? I think it's Emperor Propaganda!!


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> ardrum said:
> 
> 
> > This is like talking about Tibet in China..... Please stop!
> ...


Tibet, Taiwan, Falun Gong, and Tiananmen Square.... don't get caught walking around in China ranting about these subjects (unless you're a superhero).


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> > ardrum said:
> ...


But I AM a superhero: I have mastered the ways of The Force.  ...talking about Tibet in China, for me, is more or less a piece of cake.


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

You just got SAS banned in China!


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Dont do it to mee! It was Ruby's fault - she made me do it!

Do it to Roooooobeeeeeeeeee!!!

If you havent seen the screenplay of 1984 by George Oorwell then that would have made no sense at all. Like most of my posts.

So anyway, masculinity / feminitity - I think its a load of crap. There is good and bad. Love and hate. All humans have em in em. Aggression is not male, nurturance is not female. Its rubbish.

Yin and Yang are light and dark, good and evil IMO. Is a father being feminine when he nurtures the son and soothes him after he has been picked on by other children (which equally could be girls too)? No, he is showing LOVE. It is not just a case of semantics - scrap the whole masculine feminine rubbish and then maybe we'll lose the silly (but powerful) stigma that revolves around whether you are girlie or manly enough. Do you WANT to keep that stigma? Is it useful to ANYBODY? Decide how much good and evil you have in you, how much love and hate you have, and then work on that. You'll get a lot further than thinking you need to start playing quarterback and burping loudly in order to get a date.

If the poles are love and hate, Is it not better to stigmatise hate than to stigmatise 'not being manly enough'? After all it seems there are many young men growing up that seem to think in order to prove their manhood they must commit acts of hate. In the UK right now that is especially true. _Stigmatise hate_ - not 'being the wrong gender temperament'.

Try a poll asking how much love and hate people have for others. That could possibly be very enlightening, but would take far greater soul searching. I have a lot of anger and a lot of hate inside me, and most of the time I dont even know how much - until it spills out. I am trying to nurture love and understanding in myself - but I need to give that to myself and register that others can give it before it can really take root. This I find much more helpful and powerful than making any kind of gender division.

There thats an abridged version of my rant


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Love and hate are probably a lot closer than it might appear. Both are very passionate and powerful. The whole light side/dark side force dichotomy thing is maybe more like two sides of the same coin.... Master Yoda was a fool.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

:boogie :yay :hs ...Excellent ideas there, Rossy!!!! :yes

...and in my 'defence': I don't _make_ anyone do _anything_! ...I just follow as best who I am and don't bother about what anyone else thinks.  And everyone else just is who they are.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> Love and hate are probably a lot closer than it might appear. Both are very passionate and powerful. The whole light side/dark side force dichotomy thing is maybe more like two sides of the same coin.... Master Yoda was a fool.


...I dunno. I mean, in order to be a Master: he must have realized the insanity of 'duality'. And that only by approaching everything as 'both' and not as 'this' vs 'that' ...that there was the hope. I think, instead, that he _knew_ (perhaps without a doubt even that) it was 'two sides of the same coin'.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

For Ruby...


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> For Ruby...


 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

You're a LEGEND!!!!! 
:lol


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I like to pretend he has the exact same voice too.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Love is an unconditional acceptance of anothers rights, needs and emotions no matter what they do
Hate is the unconditional regard of your own rights, needs and emotions in relation to another individual

If you have strong FEELINGS of love towards someone and they deny you in some way, you may become enraged and feel hate. You may become demanding. You may try to hurt them in order to make them see how wrong they were. But by doing this you are ignoring THEIR needs and emotions that lead to the perceived act of denial. In hate, you cannot do this. Its almost possible to say that if you cannot grant your lover the freedom to make mistakes, then you never loved them in the first place. Again, this starts with having an internal sense of love. All of this stuff is so frighteningly close to what I am learning about modes at the moment that it sends a chill up my spine.

Assertiveness is the regard of both yours and their rights
Dominance is denying them their rights
Subjugation is denying yourself your rights

Life is a balance of all of these. The feeling of ANGER may drive the desire to be assertive, but LOVE is what tempers it.










And as Ruby said - all the above are things that the Chinese seem to have invented and then discarded.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> :boogie :yay :hs ...Excellent ideas there, Rossy!!!! :yes
> 
> ...and in my 'defence': I don't _make_ anyone do _anything_! ...I just follow as best who I am and don't bother about what anyone else thinks.  And everyone else just is who they are.


I was being silly. I didnt want to be punished by Chairman Mao Ardrum and so I was blaming you in an Orwell styleee.

Just me and my dictatorship / dystopias obsession :yes


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> RubyTuesday said:
> 
> 
> > :boogie :yay :hs ...Excellent ideas there, Rossy!!!! :yes
> ...


...And yet, still, it is admirable.  
All of your thoughts are_ admirable_ just for bothering even to even _have_ them at all . .... :idea

..."Everyone who makes himself great, will be humbled...Everyone who humbles himself, will be made great."

"When you make the two into one, a hand like a foot, a foot like a hand, the outside like the inside, the inside like the outside, male like female, female like male... then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

...sorry: having insulted the Pope, I can only then quote Jesus. -now THERE was a _progressive_ guy.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Love is an unconditional acceptance of anothers rights, needs and emotions no matter what they do
> Hate is the unconditional regard of your own rights, needs and emotions in relation to another individual


Those don't seem to be mutually exclusive definitions, right? The hate doesn't include an unacceptance of others' rights clause. :lol

I'm not saying they have to be mutually exclusive. Just making an observation.


yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Assertiveness is the regard of both yours and their rights


So hate plus a love that additionally involves regard (rather than mere acceptance).


yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Dominance is denying them their rights


This goes beyond mere hate, right?


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

What its saying is that there are no pure poles - poles are just ideas and do not exist in reality - well as far as humans are concerned. Thats why trying to be all one thing is doomed to failure and sickness. Everything is a combination - a grey area with mixtures. When the balance is wrong, that is when things are in trouble.

When you add stigma to either pole and push people away from it, they necessarily try to pigeonhole themselves out of shame, out of conformity. I must be more manly. More femenine. If I was more manly, I would get girls. However I meet a lot of guys who want dates but actually have so much ANGER at women that they cannot relate in any human way. They want to learn techniques to manipulate them - thus trying to ignore her true emotions, needs and rights. Having a true conenction is not becoming more feminine - its bringing the balance back to their anger - which can only be done by acknolwedging and understanding that anger, rather than burying it and watching it grow. Then they have to overcome another stigma - that of admitting to an emotional need for LOVE. But thats not male, Its girlie to want LOVE. Ew. So once again he tries to block out another element of his natural humanity - for the sake of conformity. For the sake of avoiding shame.

If you have anger, let it out. Look at it. Accept it - because its part of you, as it should be in ANY system. Deal with that, let it vent. Come back to an equilibrium. Then you can work on the other side - love.

To use the Star Wars reference again - the force must be brought back into balance!


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> What its saying is that there are no pure poles - poles are just ideas and do not exist in reality - well as far as humans are concerned. Thats why trying to be all one thing is doomed to failure and sickness. Everything is a combination - a grey area with mixtures. When the balance is wrong, that is when things are in trouble.


Yeah, concepts are ultimately illusions. They are useful tools for pragmatic purposes though. Every concept though implies a dichotomy of "this" and "not this". It might work with internal logic and on the conceptual realm, but reality is not our pretty, neat little language. :lol



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> When you add stigma to either pole and push people away from it, they necessarily try to pigeonhole themselves out of shame, out of conformity. I must be more manly. More femenine. If I was more manly, I would get girls. However I meet a lot of guys who want dates but actually have so much ANGER at women that they cannot relate in any human way. They want to learn techniques to manipulate them - thus trying to ignore her true emotions, needs and rights. Having a true conenction is not becoming more feminine - its bringing the balance back to their anger - which can only be done by acknolwedging and understanding that anger, rather than burying it and watching it grow.


It seems that ego plays a huge factor as well. It's very easy to be convinced of the following:

This "I" thing IS the experience of sensations like anxiety, inferiority, shame, etc...

P.S. -- This is the Voting Booth section vs. Relationships section (with the vague "no sex" headline under it), so perhaps porn talk is okay here so long as "illicit" material isn't posted (another rather vague term).


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> Yes, Adam!!!! ...My Son, I AM YOUR FATHER!
> 
> Condoms, pornography, homosexuality and extra marrital sex is forbidden!!
> 
> (Now, as an Atheist: How do you like that?)


Am I the only one who thinks the current pope is really really really scary? :stu


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

No, you aren't alone.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I think that a rebalancing is occurring right here, actually :yes
Just the start of one. Its not gonna be quick and will prolly be a bit painful, but its happening.

I can see it.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> ...And yet, still, it is admirable.
> All of your thoughts are_ admirable_ just for bothering even to even _have_ them at all . .... :idea
> 
> ..."Everyone who makes himself great, will be humbled...Everyone who humbles himself, will be made great."
> ...


Again, another scarily appropriate piece of writing for me today.

This is fantastic :yes


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I'm "It's Pat!" okay?

Just kidding.

I am millenniumman75 and I am a man with enough feminine side to be an okay dude, without completely going metrosexual. I would like to think that I am 100% organized, but I'm not :kma


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

ardrum said:


> For Ruby...


...I was looking at this again: cos it's BLOODY HILARIOUS!!!! (I'm an Aussie, so I can say "bloody", right?! :um :yes )

The FIRST one -My Goodness- it's AMAZING how similar their faces are!!! :eek :eek :um :spit :lol

...oops: I think I figured it out: it's not actually 'The Emperor's' face they used, is it :idea ... :blush :doh ...they just put his cloak on the Pope's face


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

that pope sure is scary. :afr 


..."Everyone who makes himself great, will be humbled...Everyone who humbles himself, will be made great." 

"When you make the two into one, a hand like a foot, a foot like a hand, the outside like the inside, the inside like the outside, male like female, female like male... then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven." 


Very very very awesome and appropriate quotes, Ruby. :yes


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

CoconutHolder said:


> that pope sure is scary. :afr
> 
> ..."Everyone who makes himself great, will be humbled...Everyone who humbles himself, will be made great."
> 
> ...


-Why, thank you! :yes

...I was thinking of starting a thread (being that I hardly get out of the house :lol ) on the ideas of the Church ...and what people think of them.

...My cousin (who I am close with) got me a ticket to this "youth day" that they are having in Oz. The Pope is coming to Sydney and they are having celebrations all over Australia. So I am going to this Mass Mass -I don't know how many thousands will be there.

...Anyhow, I've been seeing how there will be Anti-Pope protestors there. ...And it occurs to me how much of what the church says I just DO NOT agree with!!! :no :no 
-THere is more than one thing that I do not agree with!

So... yeah. I don't know quite what I am saying here, other than that: as per usual: the Church loses touch with what God is really about -hey?!
...I mean, Jesus went against so much of what the priests in his time believed... why wouldn't he do it now...? ....even if he wouldn't, I still don't agree and/or question a lot of the Church's values.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

"So... yeah. I don't know quite what I am saying here, other than that: as per usual: the Church loses touch with what God is really about -hey?!
...I mean, Jesus went against so much of what the priests in his time believed... why wouldn't he do it now...? ....even if he wouldn't, I still don't agree and/or question a lot of the Church's values."

Exactly! Its too much dogma, too much "males rule and are dominant over the evil females" too much "you shall be thrown into the pits of hell for not attenting church every Sunday" and so on and so forth.

I like that Joel Olsteen dude, I dunno if I spelled his name right. But its totally in tune with what church should be like, IMO. Sending out positive messages and stuff. Brightening our lights instead of diminishing them and making us feel like we are "bad" or "unworthy" of God or heaven.

of course though, I feel if you do bad things with bad intentions, you will reap the consequences. But thats karma. :yes

Hey you'll have to tell us all about the Mass with the pope. 

cool. I'd be afraid to go near him though. :um


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

CoconutHolder said:


> Hey you'll have to tell us all about the Mass with the pope.
> 
> cool. I'd be afraid to go near him though. :um


...I may not have stated it before, but it will be with some Archbishop (or something). I think that the Pope is pretty much staying in Sydney. -Though, 'pilgrims' from around the world are not necessarily going to be based in Sydney (my cousin AND my sister are housing each a pair of pilgrims from overseas ...they are then traveling to Sydney from Melbourne.)

The 'mass mass' will be interesting. They have these ads on for "world youth day" (though it's more like a youth week). ...I'm sure that it will be interesting.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

> Exactly! Its too much dogma, too much "males rule and are dominant over the evil females" too much "you shall be thrown into the pits of hell for not attenting church every Sunday" and so on and so forth.


I must have the only church in the world that doesnt run on the rules that everyone here seems to think they do. We have female pastors, and people are cool to me about not going all the time. They are just happy when I do.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

I apologize for being so vague. 

I was talking about the local catholic churches around here.

But I'm sure others are a lot different.

I'm glad you found a good church.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Tis ok. Yeh I think The Cathols roll their own way, I guess its good there are so many different types.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I went to a Catholic church as a kid. It was HELLISH (punny, eh?)!


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Yeah my bunch are really cool and accepting and supportive. They are even cool about my illness. Its nice - turn up on sunday, they have a band playing somgs by Hillsong (a christian rock band) and everyone sings. Much better than hymns ... most of the service is that, and then there is a sermon which is always very enlightening I find, not at all damnation and hellfire, just supportive. Then its biscuits and coffee and mabbe sunday lunch after with all the younger guys. We meet up once a fortnight to have pizza, watch a bit of football and have a laugh. Theyre just normal folk who happen to believe in God.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

Yeah. I wanna be around other normal folk who believe in God. We need each other. 

Negativity breeds upon itself and spreads like wildfire. But tis harder for one light to shine on its own without the help of other lights, to help theirs grow brighter.  

hmmm........


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

That sounds cool, Ross.  :yes

...I don't mean to go against the church or anything.

For instance, I like listening to sermons that are really inspiring and about opening up and being more generous. -I like being inspired to _think_ for my self -to be_ re-minded_ to have an open heart and mind.

What I like less, and sometimes much less, is being told just what my specific values should be... Things like: that women can't be priests, that contraception and homosexuality are forbidden, that abortion is always wrong. ...I just find these ideas too narrow. And most of all: I object to being TOLD what my particular values should be.

...I am "Catholic" from just childhood up-bringing. And we don't have female priests (heaven forbid!) and there is just a fair bit about what the Catholic Pope says is "Right" that I question, if not, in fact disagree with.

In short: I prefer an openness and especially an openness to thinking and asking questions and figuring things out for your self... :yes :yes 
And, to me, that's what I like about spirituality -the 'openness'  . ...A good number of Religions, on the other hand, can actually be pretty 'closed'.

It's good that you found a welcoming and open-hearted place/branch of Religion to become involved with. :yes


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

"In short: I prefer an openness and especially an openness to thinking and asking questions and figuring things out for your self... 
And, to me, that's what I like about spirituality -the 'openness' . ...A good number of Religions, on the other hand, can actually be pretty 'closed'."

I completely agree. :yes I prefer to be spiritual and gnostic (seeking the spiritual truth from wherever it comes from) than religious.

I do wish I had a group of ppls with similar ground beliefs to chat with and get together with. To help each other and stuff.

maybe one day I will. :stu


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## SBP21 (Jul 21, 2006)

Interesting thread....from porn to religion in just a few pages


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

:lol


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

CoconutHolder said:


> "In short: I prefer an openness and especially an openness to thinking and asking questions and figuring things out for your self...
> And, to me, that's what I like about spirituality -the 'openness' . ...A good number of Religions, on the other hand, can actually be pretty 'closed'."
> 
> I completely agree. :yes I prefer to be spiritual and gnostic (seeking the spiritual truth from wherever it comes from) than religious.
> ...


...I noticed a little while back that you actually had a quote of Jesus from The Gospel of Thomas. :yes -the one about bringing forth what you have within you...

It's like something I might have used as a signature line! :yes ...And I like gnostic spirituality as well! :lol :b


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

SBP21 said:


> Interesting thread....from porn to religion in just a few pages


...It's great, huh?! :yes :lol


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

RubyTuesday said:


> CoconutHolder said:
> 
> 
> > "In short: I prefer an openness and especially an openness to thinking and asking questions and figuring things out for your self...
> ...


awesome. :yes yes that was a great jesus quote. 

Too bad we didn't live closer. We could start a group or something. :yes :stu


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I will choose a white straw if other, colored straws are available. Am I a racist?

Oh wait, this isn't the random thoughts thread.


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

Has anyone taken the Sandra Bem Sex Role Inventory?

Here is a simplified version that might help people answer this question.

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testi ... 2332679709

Sorry if this has already been brought up. I can't really read all seven pages of this thread right now. Maybe this weekend, I'll be able to catch up on SAS stuff. (I miss SAS.)

I scored an androgynous. I was 86% masculine and 66% feminine.

(Note: this test measures gender and not sex.)

Have a nice day,
Kelly


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## X33 (Feb 13, 2005)

Undifferentiated
You scored 33% masculinity and 47% femininity!



You scored low on both masculinity and femininity. Your personality includes characteristics of both traditional sex roles, but your gender is not strongly defined. 

5/100 You scored 33% on masculinity, higher than 5% of your peers. 
17/100 You scored 47% on femininity, higher than 17% of your peers. 

:no


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

Feminine
You scored 20% masculinity and 80% femininity!

My results surprised me for some reason.

Thanks for sharing that, Kelly. :yes


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

According to that quiz, I was 50% masculine and 63% feminine, suggesting a high value in both. That's very interesting, since other tests I've done scored me low in both. Meh, who knows. It seems tests vary pretty widely, at least for me.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

My score from the link:

Masculine
You scored 73% masculinity and 27% femininity!

I think my parents had my penis clipped off shortly after birth and just never told me. Please, boys, one at a time; there's plenty of me to go around. I am going to be alone forever.


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## Polar (Dec 16, 2006)

Androgynous
You scored 50% masculinity and 63% femininity!


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## ANCIENT (Aug 9, 2005)

You scored 27% masculinity and 60% femininity!

there is something wrong with this test!

*eats a big bowl of ice cream and cries*


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## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

ANCIENT said:


> there is something wrong with this test!


 :ditto You scored 43% masculinity and 80% femininity!


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

Androgynous

You scored 50% masculinity and 60% femininity!

You scored high on both masculinity and femininity. You have a strong personality exhibiting characteristics of both traditional sex roles.


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## RubyTuesday (Aug 3, 2007)

...It's interesting that Adam's poll shows that, compared to the men, women are disinclined to view themselves as 'more masculine than feminine'. Whilst the men seem less disinclined to view the 'other gender' in themselves.

...Maybe this has a little to do with being very shy and having social anxiety.

...It's more acceptable for women to be shy (just as men are less likely to seek help or acknowledge having social anxiety disorder).

Also, having SA may let women get away more with not acknowledging 'the other' in themselves -by which I mean, they can continue to view themselves as fitting the female gender role stereotype more than the men can.

But males with SA -the ones who acknowledge having it -are pushed more towards acknowledging their 'feminine' side.

...I wonder if there is any difference between the sexes as far as who recovers (more quickly) from social anxiety? ...maybe there isn't one but it'd be good to know, anyway...


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Yeah, those are some interesting thoughts there, Ruby.


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## Cleary (Nov 10, 2007)

The ones that apply to me are in bold.

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, *hiding emotions, objective*, dominant, math/science orientation, *active* (varies), competitive, *logical,* business-minded, direct, adventurous, decision-maker, *not crying*, leader, self-confident, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: emotional, subjective, submissive, *disliking math*/science, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, *home-oriented*, sneaky, feelings easily hurt,* difficulty making decisions*, crying easily, dependent, talkative, *tactful,* *gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings*, religious, *interested in one's appearance, neat in habits*, strong need for security, *enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, *nurturing* (varies)


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## Squirrelevant (Jul 27, 2008)

In a stereotypical sense, I don't think I'm either significantly masculine or feminine.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

Masculine: hiding emotions (but that's just SA), objective, logical, direct, not crying
Feminine: disliking math, passive (just due to SA really), home-oriented (if this just means staying at home), feelings easily hurt (kinda depends on what this means, but in an SA sense yes), difficulty making decisions (again, anxiety issues), strong need for security (also anxiety issues, though I'm not sure how to interpret "security")

I don't see myself in either category though, because I feel I can't relate to typical people of either gender.


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

Could cut this to 4 options:

I'm a red-blooded male
I'm a gay male
I'm a female
I'm a lesbian


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## tutliputli (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm female: I'm significantly feminine, and not significantly masculine.

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, hiding emotions, objective, dominant, math/science orientation, active, competitive, logical, business-minded, direct, adventurous, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: *emotional, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science,* excitable in crisis, *passive,* illogical,* home-oriented*, sneaky, *feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, crying easily, dependent*, talkative, *tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings,* religious, *interested in one's appearance, neat in habits, strong need for security, enjoys art/literature,* expresses tender feelings easily*, nurturing*


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## Still Waters (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm a female,and soooo feminine it almost makes me sick! I wish I was more logical and adventurous. The only qualities I have that are even remotely masculine-I can be quite direct and if necessary I absolutely WILL stand up for myself-though the results of that are often quite laughable. Sometimes I feel that I annoy women who are extremely confident which I completely understand. However,I sort of relish being a female and wouldn't change it for the world. Gee,in retrospect that sounds a little schizophrenic!


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, *hiding emotions*, objective, dominant, math/science orientation, *active*, competitive, *logical*, business-minded, direct, *adventurous*, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, *ambitious*, use harsh language, *blunt*, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: *emotional*, subjective, submissive, *disliking math/science*, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, home-oriented, *sneaky*, *feelings easily hurt*, *difficulty making decisions*, *crying easily*, dependent, talkative, *tactful*, *gentle*, *empathetic*, *aware of feelings*, religious, interested in one's appearance, *neat in habits*, strong need for security, *enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, *nurturing

*A lot of these things are due to SA, though.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Male who is well in touch with his feminine side.

And to quote Klaus Wowereit, "und das ist auch gut so".


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

Male, significantly feminine, not significantly masculine.


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## anonymid (Oct 16, 2005)

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> Could cut this to 4 options:
> 
> I'm a red-blooded male
> I'm a gay male
> ...


Not really. I'm "significantly feminine, not significantly masculine," but straight as an arrow.


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## VeggieGirl (Dec 11, 2009)

Inbetween really, I mean yes I wear make up and like to wear womens clothes, however I would never wear skirts and dresses and I am a lesbian.


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## Deathinmusic (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm a guy and I chose _significantly BOTH masculine and feminine._ I don't think of myself as a typical "guy" at all. I'm just a person. I don't like the way society separates people into these convenient boxes based on gender. I think it's very largely cultural and therefore artificial and taught, and so I don't think the gender roles are necessarily based on our biology and nature.

I'm both logical and emotional. Can be both dominant and passive. Quite direct but also gentle and concerned about the feelings of others. Science-oriented for sure, but also artistic and creative.

In all honesty I probably identify a little more with the feminine qualities listed in the first post, but it seems to be pretty much even for me.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

Hmm.

Masculine: independent, hiding emotions, objective, competitive, logical, direct, adventurous, decision-maker, not crying, leader, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy,

Feminine: disliking math/science, passive, tactful, empathetic, interested in one's appearance, enjoys art/literature,

I thought I was half masculine and half feminine, but I guess I'm more stereotypically masculine than feminine.


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## Anna (Sep 24, 2009)

_I'm female: I'm significantly BOTH masculine and feminine._

eh whatever. my personality, interests, style, jobs... i think i'm a bit more masculine maybe. it's probably just that i looked up more to the men in my life and i've tried to model myself after them, it wasn't conscious. there's really no mistaking i'm a woman though, and i like feminine things.

somewhere in the middle of the gender spectrum.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

_I'm female: I'm neither significantly masculine nor feminine._


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## seastar (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm super feminine in every way.


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm sure I should have been born female and I wake up every morning and wish I wasn't a guy anymore. I think about going transgender a lot but I don't have the money to do that right now though... :S

I spend so much time daydreaming about what I would look like as a girl =). If it wasn't so looked down on to wear womens clothes than I would for sure. But they wouldn't fit right =/

Everytime I see like makeup and stuff I just want to wear it too! This one time one of my friends gave me a girly makeover thing as a joke but it was one of the best things i've ever felt. It's like.. I belong in those things but society tells me no! I wish I could just ignore society but it's harder than it sounds.

if i ever got enough money for surgery and harmones and all that i would sure be a happier person in my own skin


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## bowlingpins (Oct 18, 2008)

ardrum said:


> Masculine: aggressive, independent, *hiding emotions*, *objective*, dominant, math/*science orientation*, active, *competitive*, logical, business-minded, *direct*, *adventurous*, decision-maker, not crying, leader, *self-confident*, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive
> 
> Feminine: emotional, *subjective*, submissive, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, *home-oriented*, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious, interested in one's appearance, neat in habits, strong need for security, enjoys art/literature, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing


Mix of both but more masculine than feminine.


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## sansd (Mar 22, 2006)

Not particularly with either category.

Masculine: 
aggressive (sometimes), independent (when not depressed), hiding emotions, objective (depends), math/science orientation, active (depends), competitive, logical, business-minded (sometimes), direct, adventurous (also when not depressed), leader (when comfortable), ambitious, blunt, sloppy (usually)

Feminine: 
emotional (internally), subjective (sometimes), submissive (often in action, but not in mind/nature), passive (against my will), feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, crying easily (not so much as when I was a kid), dependent (when I'm not feeling good), gentle, empathetic, strong need for security (maybe, depends how I feel), enjoys art/literature (sort of. I believe arts have value although I appreciate math and science more, and I read more non-fiction than fiction)


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

I identify as a woman, plain and simple. That list is pretty arbitrary and I don't think that falling into one/both categories makes you more/less masculine or feminine.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

See, I don't get this poll because people view feminine and masculine differently, so how am I suppose to answer? I'm a ball of all emotions because I'm human, so I don't know how to answer this question...


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## izzy (Dec 18, 2009)

I hate the thing about women being bad (or disliking) math. Me and my mom, a computer programmer, have both had to hear stupid things because of that belief, and we would do better in math than our male peers.  I also hate the stereotype of women being illogical. I almost always choose logic over emotion.


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## Anna (Sep 24, 2009)

^ yeah izzy it is obnoxious to still see some traits considered to belong more to one gender. but the good thing is that these stereotypes are just based on what's come before and what people are comfortable with believing, they aren't absolute truths. with each new generation the lines get blurred more and more and a lot of people are becoming comfortable with less strict divides in gender roles. it's slow but it's progress.


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## Cillian (Nov 17, 2011)

There is another dimension to this besides just Masculine or Feminine. A lot of the characteristics described by people here are actually "functions" you possess and use, in Jungian Typology. If you look into Myers Briggs Personality Typing you will see that a lot of this can be explained very well with it.

FYI an ENTJ would probably be considered the ultimate masculine person(Tony Soprano, Dana White-UFC, Joe Rogan-UFC). An ENFP the ultimate Feminine Type(Alecia Silverstone, Sandra Bullock, Ariel-Little Mermaid) . But there are female ENTJ's and male ENFP's. Check out some websites or forums on personality types. It's helping me quite a bit with my insecurities that developed over comparing myself to others and wondering why I wasn't a certain way. 
Also this guy is very smart and really funny and helps explain some of the breakdowns if the types.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

Based on what was described in the OP. I'd be considered very feminine I think..


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Some one said they think of me has a "brute" so I guess I'm all masculine.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I think I'm kind of neutral but for some reason I keep getting people commenting on my posts saying I sound masculine.


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## Nitrogen (Dec 24, 2012)

Kinda gender neutral. I'm female but I don't feel very feminine. Odd to believe that usually males pursue math/science fields because throughout high school all of my AP science classes involved just girls, except for chemistry but there's only two other boys. 

I guess I'd say like.. 65% feminine, based on OP.


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## Daniel C (Apr 17, 2012)

When I go down your list I have three 'masculine' qualities and fourteen 'feminine' qualities. But I'm not sure how relevant the distinction is. In reality people are mostly a mix-up of 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities. I don't really like putting labels on those qualities. I think it's time we leave behind typical gender roles and just accept people behave in any way that suits them.


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

Both. I like science and logic and I tend to hide my emotions (but in reality I'm a crybaby and I get offended easily.) I'm more sexually aggressive than not, and not talkative. On the other hand, I look pretty girly, and I have a tendency to be sneaky and passive. I also like art/literature but I'm not very nurturing and a bit messy.


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## aquilla (Aug 18, 2011)

Ok, so I'm female and I'd say I could find about 9 masculine traits true to describe me and 5-6 feminine ones. More masculine than feminine then, but not significantly expressed.


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## Revenwyn (Apr 11, 2011)

I am female, significantly masculine. 
My husband is male and significantly feminine.


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

Bolded the ones that apply.

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, *hiding emotions*, *objective*, dominant, *math/science orientation*, active, *competitive*, *logical*, business-minded, *direct*, adventurous, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, *ambitious*, *use harsh language*, *blunt*, rough, *sloppy*, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: emotional, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, *home-oriented*, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, *difficulty making decisions*, crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious, interested in one's appearance, neat in habits, strong need for security, *enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing


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## BrookeHannigan (Mar 29, 2012)

Haha how the **** does being religious equals femininity,
Stupidist thing ive ever heard,
According to your list im very feminine exept im not religious and have no problems with cursing a lot.

Masculine 3/4
Feminine 18(minus the words i dont know the meaning of in my own language) so maybe more 

So i consider myself very feminine duh im female


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## Nekomata (Feb 3, 2012)

Significantly feminine. I do have a few masculine traits though, but not much according to the list xD


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## na0mi (Dec 25, 2012)

I consider myself feminine.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Going by those lists, I'm about 4 masculine and 10 feminine.


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## Fenren (Sep 20, 2009)

As far as the lists of traits go, I'm pretty feminine I guess. E.g a weak sissy.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

All dude


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## flamingwind (Jan 1, 2013)

So for the masculine side I'm: hiding emotions, objective, math/science orientation, logical, business-minded, not crying, self-confident, 

For the feminine side: subjective, submissive, passive, home-oriented, sneaky, difficulty making decisions, dependent, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, strong need for security, enjoys art/literature,

physical all male except my eyelashes, yup girls envy my eyelashes lol wtf

Seems like I have a lot more feminine things going for me, I'm not surprised to be honest, though I always consider myself a good blend of both. Even though I relate more to guys for some odd reason I only want to make female friends


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## Choa (Feb 5, 2013)

_I'm female: I'm significantly feminine, and not significantly masculine._


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## BlackWinterBeauty (Dec 21, 2012)

I did something like this in my psychology class last year by doing a test. I was pretty much androgynous with just slightly more masculine traits.


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## Paramecium (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm significantly both masculine and feminine. 

I think everyone should have some opposite sex traits, otherwise it will be boring to talk to them or to be friends with them.
I dont dislike... Well I actually dislike girly girls and 'macho' boys.

Masculine: independent, hiding emotions, objective, dominant, math/science orientation, competitive, logical, business-minded, direct, adventurous, not crying, leader, blunt.

Feminine: emotional, passive, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, interested in one's appearance, enjoys art/literature, nurturing.


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## Secretaz (Sep 10, 2011)

Mix of both of those.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

i am both.
Masculine:
I dress in good italian clothes. business casual.
love my steaks and beer
love to go shooting
I am always up for a brawl
I love my cars.
I like to pay if I can
Feminine:
i love the arts
I love my jewelry
I like a clean place
I change my underwear everyday 
I have famine parts lol


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

I look feminine, but am quite masculine. I am often referred to as a "dude with a vadge", and in this medium I am commonly mistaken for a male. 

I'm an innie though, not an outtie!


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## Baiken (Sep 11, 2012)

I don't even care.


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## tieffers (Jan 26, 2013)

What if I can't decide?



ardrum said:


> Feminine: difficulty making decisions


oh


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Masculine: aggressive, *independent, hiding emotions, objective, * dominant, *math/science orientation*, active, *competitive*,* logical*, business-minded, direct, *adventurous*, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, *ambitious*, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy, loud, *sexually aggressive*

Feminine: *emotional*, subjective, *submissive*, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, passive, illogical, home-oriented,* sneaky, feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, * *crying easily, dependent*, talkative, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious,* interested in one's appearance*, neat in habits, *strong need for security*, enjoys art/literature, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing

I think I'm pretty much in the middle. I love shopping(F) and playing video games(M). I hate sports(F) but love girl's bodies(M). I wear dresses some days and a t-shirt and jeans other days.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

Why even make gender requirements if we are trying to break the gender wars? Don't get me wrong I answered it but now I am wondering why do we do that.


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## Marakunda (Jun 7, 2011)

Masculine: aggressive, independent, *hiding emotions*, objective, dominant, math/science orientation, active, competitive, logical, business-minded, *direct*, adventurous, decision-maker, *not crying*, leader, self-confident, ambitious, *use harsh language*, *blunt*, *rough*, *sloppy*, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: emotional, *subjective*, *submissive*, *disliking math/science*, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, *home-oriented*, *sneaky*, feelings easily hurt, *difficulty making decisions*, crying easily, *dependent*, talkative, tactful, *gentle*, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious, interested in one's appearance, neat in habits, strong need for security, *enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing

Surprisingly, I feel like I'm more feminine. Not a bad thing.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Apparently I'm a man(this is a _really_ stereotypical and horrible list, though).

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, *hiding emotions*, *objective*, *dominant*, math/science orientation, active, competitive, *logical*, business-minded, *direct*, adventurous, decision-maker, *not crying*, leader, self-confident, ambitious, *use harsh language*,* blunt*, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: emotional, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, passive, illogical, home-oriented, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, *difficulty making decisions*, crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious, *interested in one's appearance*, neat in habits, *strong need for security*,* enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing


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## noyadefleur (Oct 26, 2010)

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, hiding emotions, *objective*, dominant, math/science orientation, active, competitive, *logical*, business-minded, direct, adventurous, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, ambitious, use harsh language, blunt, rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: *emotional*, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, *home-oriented*, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, crying easily, dependent, talkative, *tactful*, *gentle*, *empathetic*, *aware of feelings*, religious, *interested in one's appearance*, *neat in habits*, *strong need for security*, *enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing

So apparently I'm a total stereotype. :roll


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## Vuldoc (Sep 8, 2011)

Masculine: 
independent
hiding emotions
objective
math/science orientated
logical
direct
adventurous
decision-maker
not crying

Feminine:
sneaky(maybe?)
tactful
gentle
enjoys art/literature


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## NoHeart (May 5, 2012)

I don't much care for these stereotypes...


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## miminka (May 10, 2009)

this is total bs just sayin


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## josh23 (Nov 26, 2010)

Masculine: aggressive, *independent*, hiding emotions, *objective*, dominant, math/science orientation, active, competitive, *logical*, business-minded, direct, *adventurous*, decision-maker, not crying, leader, self-confident, *ambitious*, use harsh language, blunt, rough, *sloppy*, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: *emotional*, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science, excitable in crisis, *passive*, illogical, *home-oriented*, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, *difficulty making decisions*, crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, *gentle*, *empathetic*, *aware of feelings*, religious, *interested in one's appearance*, neat in habits, strong need for security, *enjoys art/literature*, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing


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## niacin (May 26, 2012)

ardrum said:


> Here's your stereotypical list of common traits to get you thinking. This isn't an exhaustive (and potentially open for debate at times) list, but it gives you the general/common viewpoint of what these terms tend to signify.
> 
> Answer the poll according to how strongly (or not strongly) you identify with the words (regardless of the brainstorming list below).
> 
> ...


How are being submissive, illogical, dependent, and disliking math/science feminine traits? I'd understand if guys don't want to claim responsibility for them, but we women don't want them either xD


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## InimitableJeeves (Aug 27, 2012)

I identify more with the feminine description except for the neat, tidy and passive parts. Also I am independent and adventurous.


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## indiscipline (May 24, 2015)

(thread necromancy)

Masculine: aggressive, *independent, hiding emotions, objective, dominant*, math/science orientation, active, *competitive*, *logical (lol ew),* business-minded, *direct,* adventurous, decision-maker, *not crying, leader, self-confident,* ambitious, *use harsh language*, *blunt,* rough, sloppy, loud, sexually aggressive

Feminine: *emotional,* subjective, *submissive*, *disliking math/science,* excitable in crisis, passive, illogical, home-oriented, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, *difficulty making decisions,* crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, *gentle, empathetic, *aware of feelings, religious, *interested in one's appearance, *neat in habits,* strong need for security*, *enjoys art/literature,* expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing

Hinted: women are illogical, submissive and insecure and men are loud, (sexually) aggressive and devoid of an emotional spectrum. So apparently I'm neither stereotypically masculine/feminine, but an actual person. With dynamics. Hooray.


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## Wings of Amnesty (Aug 5, 2015)

lol @*indiscipline* I agree, and I really dislike even calling traits feminine or masculine, I don't think these stereotypes are reality and I don't think men and women are actually different in any meaningful way. Why'd you bump it though? Seems like in the past this site was a lot more liberal on gender.


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## Orbiter (Jul 8, 2015)

More towards masculine.


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## indiscipline (May 24, 2015)

Wings of Amnesty said:


> lol @*indiscipline* I agree, and I really dislike even calling traits feminine or masculine, I don't think these stereotypes are reality and I don't think men and women are actually different in any meaningful way. Why'd you bump it though? Seems like in the past this site was a lot more liberal on gender.


I wasn't here back then but I've heard that as well. I'm sure we differ on some level, though. Biology splits us in two sexes so it's not a big leap of faith imo to assume that we differ psychologically as well. Just not in a black and white sense that makes zero room for exceptions. That makes it too easy for people of the opposite sex to assume things about each other based on preconceived notions.

(I don't know why I did, I found it on similar thread suggestions and got a bit... provoked maybe o-o shame on me)


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## JohnDoe26 (Jun 6, 2012)

Male, lean more on the feminine side and I hate it.


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Uhm, what exactly means "I'm significantly BOTH masculine and feminine"? Something like gender bipolarity?


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## OnlyPath (Jan 16, 2016)

Very good descriptions of masculinity and femininity. I myself would say I'm not strongly masculine but I'm definitely not feminine in the slightest. I am level-headed and stoic most of the time. I can get angry (which is more masculine) but only after dealing with a bull sh!t. I bottle most my emotions up as they get in the way of making rational decisions.


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## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

I let my mustache beard speak for myself.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

This thread started to give me a headache, and then I realised I don't actually have to answer it.

BYE GUYS.

(I actually wanted to post some kind of funny gif at the end but I've got nothing I'll just have to leave the thread with this: )


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## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

Vuldoc said:


> Masculine:
> independent
> hiding emotions
> objective
> ...


Lol....

Masculinity:
Awesome
Cool
Super duper
Great

Feminine:
Sneaky

Where do these people come from.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

'Sneaky' as a female trait lol.


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## Wings of Amnesty (Aug 5, 2015)

Persephone The Dread said:


> This thread started to give me a headache, and then I realised I don't actually have to answer it.
> 
> BYE GUYS.
> 
> (I actually wanted to post some kind of funny gif at the end but I've got nothing I'll just have to leave the thread with this: )


Lol, I'm almost offended for women by what traits they got pinned with in this thread. I'm amazed anyone answered that they feel significantly feminine unless they answered without reading the OP.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Wings of Amnesty said:


> Lol, I'm almost offended for women by what traits they got pinned with in this thread. I'm amazed anyone answered that they feel significantly feminine unless they answered without reading the OP.


I didn't even notice that initially lol, was just trying to word how I feel and was like lol nope it's not even important.

Of course this is super old now anyway, but odd that OP created a thread asking people how they personally identify and then gave common generalised perceptions of masculinity/femininity.


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## Wings of Amnesty (Aug 5, 2015)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I didn't even notice that initially lol, was just trying to word how I feel and was like lol nope it's not even important.


Oh, well that's too bad, because it's actually really interesting to me how weird you feel about gender. Trans people too, I wish I could understand what that feels like. I don't have any feelings of gender, it's nonexistent to me. So people who claim they experience gender, and especially that they experience gender incorrectly/confusingly, that's fascinating.


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## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

Paper Samurai said:


> 'Sneaky' as a female trait lol.


I loled too :lol

Also women dislike math and science, but enjoy art and literature more than men?


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

Umpalumpa said:


> Lol....
> 
> Masculinity:
> Awesome
> ...


Their parents' basements probably? I mean they have at least SA, no surprise here.

And lol at the "I'm significantly masculine, and not significantly feminine." votes. I bet most of them don't even know how to defend themselves in a discussion.

This thread should've been left dead.


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## bad baby (Jun 10, 2013)

sexless unicorn


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Psychologically I'm about 95% female, using the customary social conventions regarding gender.



Wings of Amnesty said:


> Oh, well that's too bad, because it's actually really interesting to me how weird you feel about gender. Trans people too, I wish I could understand what that feels like. I don't have any feelings of gender, it's nonexistent to me. So people who claim they experience gender, and especially that they experience gender incorrectly/confusingly, that's fascinating.


You won't get much help from a thread like this. All of the traits in the OP are superficial. They sit on top of gender identity and belong more or less equally to both genders.

Gender isn't something you feel, like an emotion. It's a collection of impulses related to mate attraction strategies and reproductive roles. You won't "feel" your gender if there's no conflict between your impulses and your anatomy just like you don't feel your heartbeat until it starts acting strangely. I physically can't act on many of my impulses, or can only partially act on them in a convoluted fashion, or am not allowed to act on them based on my external anatomy, which creates a profound feeling of frustration.

That physical frustration combined with societal pressure (wherein society attempts to force you to act on impulses you don't have and to ignore impulses you do have) is the basis of gender dysphoria.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

All masculine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

McFly said:


> I loled too :lol
> 
> Also women dislike math and science, but enjoy art and literature more than men?


More women I know are into reading than men right now, but this is probably more down to a generational shift, rather than something intrinsically feminine.

...hmm, I wonder if there's any more 'gems' in this thread though  - it's literally stereotype after stereotype from what I can see.


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## farfegnugen (Aug 16, 2010)

mostly masculine. Feelings usually confuse me and I usually want to resolve things logically. I seem to have some nurturing and helping people when they need it tendencies plus I like do some of the things that have traditionally been identified as feminine. Other than I sort of act and behave like a guy though I would prefer to be independent and not fall into any role.


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## theotherone (Sep 1, 2015)

Here I'll post this:

Masculine: aggressive, independent, hiding emotions, logical, self-confident, use harsh language, rough, sloppy

Feminine: emotional, subjective, submissive, disliking math/science, passive, home-oriented, sneaky, feelings easily hurt, difficulty making decisions, crying easily, dependent, talkative, tactful, gentle, empathetic, aware of feelings, religious, interested in one's appearance, neat in habits, enjoys art/literature, expresses tender feelings easily, nurturing


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## Constellations (Sep 23, 2013)

Yeah, I'm not really either. I am extremely emotional, but you could say I have a hard time expressing my feelings


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## Ghostly Presence (Feb 5, 2016)

I'd say a lot more feminine than masculine, but really I'm more neutral and don't significantly possess either traits.


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