# LSD has really helped my SA



## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

It has changed the way I view things and made me more carefree. I don't feel so confined within myself. Now when I want to say something, I say it with confidence. If nobody likes what I had to say, too bad so sad. I said it because I wanted to and didn't hurt anyone in the process. That's a win.

Any other experiences like this?


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## sssig (Mar 2, 2009)

Never tried it , but i always hear stories like this, how was talking it? Did you just sit in a room by yourself? Or did you have a "babysiter"?


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

For me, I haven't really found that it has positive long-lasting effects. The feelings of well-being maybe last a day or so and then I have bad insomnia.

But yeah, I love LSD. It makes me motivated and actually want to get out and do things. It's safer than other drugs like cocaine and ecstasy (from what I hear) because there's little withdrawal and your body quickly builds tolerance to it so that you don't want to do it all the time. It depends on the person and how much you do though, I'm sure many people have had unpleasant experiences with the drug. If you don't overdo it, it can really be a very motivating and positive experience. 

Maybe it is the interaction with my meds but to me it is like weed but with a major burst of energy. Again, could be the interactions with my meds (which I don't recommend, for the record). Trying to cover myself here, but probably not doing a good job of it.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

It can do weird things with the mind, years after you get off of it. It leaves like crystals or something in the brain that can cause highs at bad times and stuff, or something like that. :stu


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## October (Jan 10, 2009)

I've been under the impression that LSD would make me a paranoid schizo...interesting...not possible for me, but interesting.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes it's extremely non-toxic in a physical sense but bad trips have nearly driven me to suicide. 

It's really helped me to figure out some of my issues from a rational standpoint but unfortunately that's never seemed to have been enough. The boost in motivation is nice (lower doses... higher doses have me thinking so hard that by the time i get up and actually decide to do something, I've forgotten what I meant to do ), although mixing LSD and mental illness is really playing with fire, I wouldn't feel right recommending it to anyone on this board. 

It'd be really nice to see it being used as a tool for psychotherapy again but unfortunately I think that's a long way away.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

I used it heavily as a teen, and really all it did was give me erections over cottage cheese, and some other ****.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Lock Watch****
This is not exactly a topic on medication - it's on a recreational and illegal drug.


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## October (Jan 10, 2009)

I forgot about that, they did use it in therapy sessions for a while. Another interesting note.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> It has changed the way I view things and made me more carefree. I don't feel so confined within myself. Now when I want to say something, I say it with confidence. If nobody likes what I had to say, too bad so sad. I said it because I wanted to and didn't hurt anyone in the process. That's a win.
> 
> Any other experiences like this?


Yes, and there are other prescription drugs which are not illegal and can be talked about on this site. The main one being Topamax which apparently shares a molecule with LSD. It is a prescription migraine preventative and is also being used as an off-label way to treat alcoholism and some other disorders that researchers in the 60's and 70's claimed could be cured with LSD in some cases.

I hope this will prevent the thread from being locked by steering it towards a legal prescription medication.

If you google _Tripping on Topamax_ then you should be able to find some examples of what I'm talking about. Also I had a personal experience with it when I took it during Klonopin withdrawal, and since it is such a slow release drug, it caught me off guard about a week into it and then I was tripping extremely hard for about another week. It actually landed me in the ER because I thought I was dying or something since I had never heard of the trippy side effect. But I laugh about it now and do feel like it made me stronger for the experience, like you said.

As with any type of scary situation though, I would recommend being around somebody who you can really trust and feel comfortable around.

Also, Topamax is not something you should take unless you follow the specific instructions from your doctor because it can be hard on you internal organs. And I really wouldn't recommend the trip because it lasts waaaaay too long even after you discontinue it, and then there possible withdrawal afterward.

Another big thing to remember is that the main benefit to anxiety that comes from tripping is the feeling that you get _after_ it wears off, not usually what you feel during the trip.

And of course this is not medical advice, just random babbling which should not be taken seriously.



millenniumman75 said:


> It can do weird things with the mind, years after you get off of it. It leaves like crystals or something in the brain that can cause highs at bad times and stuff, or something like that. :stu


I'm pretty sure that is just an urban legend, but it can not be studied because it is a Schedule I. drug, which makes no sense to me personally, but you know how it goes.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

I would caution anyone who might be considering trying LSD or any other psychedelic to deal with their social anxiety to first read up on HPPD (Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder).

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=68793

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=38973


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## Curb (Dec 23, 2008)

I heard that X could have the same results as you describe, but I wouldn't want to roll those dice.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

It doesn't leave crystals obviously, but most long-term users will report some sort of lingering effects.

For me, whenever I used it, I felt like the sensation was coming from a specific part of my brain, radiating outwards to the rest of everything I sensed and saturating it. After a while it got to where I could tap into that area of my head without taking anything, and would start to get visual sensations as if I were on the drug. It has been almost a decade since I messed around with the drug and I can still tap into this.

Also, I would frequently trip alone and just shut my eyes in a dark, quiet room. I would imagine an image, like a bicycle, and it would quickly morph into something else, and onto something else. I'd let this go on for hours. For years after I quit the drug, this would still happen. I was unable to form a visual image in my head without inducing a trip-like state.

These things aren't really bad, but it all comes down to the individual and how they experienced the drug. LSD opens doors and they don't necessarily shut when you quit the drug. As far as treating anxiety, I'd say LSD is worthless. Under perfect circumstances maybe a revelation is realized that cures your anxiety issues. However, I'd say it's just as likely, if not more likely for people on this site, that it will just compound your issues. A bad trip can give you PTSD and really screw you up for life.


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## db0255 (Jul 20, 2009)

"A bad trip can give you PTSD and really screw you up for life."

Is that for real? I've never heard that before...


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

db0255 said:


> "A bad trip can give you PTSD and really screw you up for life."
> 
> Is that for real? I've never heard that before...


I think my ptsd type symptoms from something that happened to me as a teen, were exacerbated by having a bad trip at the same time. You have to keep in mind that somebody was trying to kill me though and I had been up for a few days. But whenever I've tripped since then around people I'm comfortable with, was in a good mood, had plenty of rest and energy, and knew ahead of time what I would be feeling, it actually helped me to resolve some of those ptsd type issues for a while.

It is scary sometimes though. I usually end up feeling like I'm facing down death. Interestingly enough, [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Psilocybin (magic mushroom active ingredient)[/FONT] was used recently in a research study to help terminally ill cancer patients resolve their issues with dying. Here are the study results: http://www.heffter.org/pages/research.html

And an interesting Wired.com news article that also mentions the institute that conducted the study: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/09/65025

The results were very positive, but the setting was also very controlled and safe.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I think a bad trip is certainly capable of causing PTSD, it really just brings right into your mind, with no escape, and forced to deal with all that **** there. I wasn't kidding when I said I was really close to killing myself during a bad trip. LSD already works 12 hours or so, but when you take enough and you're having a bid trip.... time slooooooooooows right down so it feels like it might never end. If you'v ever seen someone else have a bad trip they are always asking for the time, sometimes less than a minute after they last asked!


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

meyaj said:


> I wasn't kidding when I said I was really close to killing myself during a bad trip.


But you didn't do it. I'm curious if anyone has any hard data on statistically how many people have killed themselves on hallucinogens compared to not on them. I've always had this little theory that they make you too "scrambled" while you're on them to be able to actually do it, but it's just an unproven theory and I don't have much to back it up.

It's kind of weird - when I had my bad trip as a kid and there were a couple of people right in my face talking about how they were gonna kill me, I just froze up and felt like I couldn't run away or fight. I think this might have actually saved my life, and that's why I sometimes draw that parallel with being unable to kill yourself while you're tripping very hard. It sure did burn the experience into my mind though.:|

Also, I was able to finish giving up cigarettes during that fairly recent, extended, bad Topamax trip because I was constantly forgetting to put on a nicotine patch and couldn't even think about my craving to smoke for more then 5 seconds at a time.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> But you didn't do it. I'm curious if anyone has any hard data on statistically how many people have killed themselves on hallucinogens compared to not on them. I've always had this little theory that they make you too "scrambled" while you're on them to be able to actually do it, but it's just an unproven theory and I don't have much to back it up.


Well I've thought about suicide enough to kind of rule out most methods, make it something that's final rather than be revive and now living with brain damage. A high building to jump off or subway to throw myself into, quick and painless. I'm Canadian so if I had a gun kicking around I probably wouldn't be here today... really.

But the city is effectively 20 minutes away from me, so I'd have to drive downtown to do those things, and I wasn't going to put other people at risk by driving while having a bad trip.

People all have different thresholds for this stuff too, so just because I managed to do it won't mean someone else won't, say, hang themselves, or have a gun available. My grandfather actually hung him and it was actually my father who had to take his body down... at 15 years old.

But I'm a real *****, I don't want to do anything painful, which ODing often very much is, and it can be a long process. Not everybody is as averse to pain as I am though.... calling me a wimp would be understated.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Why do people just ride out bad trips? Keep some downers around, and it won't be able to cause too much stress.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I just read about someone taking fluoxetine daily, who tried mirtazapine 45mg with some shrooms several times. They said it increased effects by double, regardless of dose... Maybe different if you take mirtazapine daily though.

Now I'm thinking the interaction depends on each drug's affinity for 5-HT2A, and dose. LSD and psilocybin/psilocin have high affinity for 5-HT2A. Hmm.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

euphoria said:


> I just read about someone taking fluoxetine daily, who tried mirtazapine 45mg with some shrooms several times. They said it increased effects by double, regardless of dose... Maybe different if you take mirtazapine daily though.
> 
> Now I'm thinking the interaction depends on each drug's affinity for 5-HT2A, and dose. LSD and psilocybin/psilocin have high affinity for 5-HT2A. Hmm.


According to several reports, mirtazapine will reduce or abolish response to LSD;

User: "The worst part of this drug is it's ability to completely **** on using psychedelics. I can still trip in a weird way, meaning I'll feel some of the effects of either LSD or psilocin but these effects are reduced to **** all. It strips away the bliss psychedelics give and it makes separation from biological game existence impossible for me. It may seem like a small price to pay but it's a large pain in the *** if you truly gain mental clarity and understanding on psychedelics as I do. You can't just not take mirtazapine for a couple days, the elimination half-life pretty much ensures you won't have an unaffected trip while on any type of scheduled regimen. "

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=446824&page=2

User: "One thing however i noticed that when i was on avanza, lsd didn't have any effects, i smoked some *** + 2 microdots and didn't feel the acid at all. "

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=159261


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Lame. That's the final nail in the coffin for my long-term mirtazapine plan. When agomelatine has been around longer, that looks a much better 5-HT2C antagonist; ondansetron can replace the 5-HT3 antagonism (the only two mechanisms I take mirtazapine for).

I feel so dead inside on mirtazapine, even more so than naturally.


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## John_in_SF (Mar 1, 2009)

I agree. Mirtazapine is evil. Gives you pretty dreams, like Satan in the desert, but by day makes you pig out on the worst dextrose the Midwest has to offer. Double yuck.

Never tried LSD but it intrigues me. The big scare job is this business about irreversible changes (a.k.a. "crystals" in the brain, as someone once said). But how many of us are seeking irreversible changes (for the better) in our behavior?


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

I'm on mirtazapine, and it doesn't make me hungry anymore, that effect peaked, faded and vanished by the second month of treatment.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

John_in_SF said:


> I agree. Mirtazapine is evil. Gives you pretty dreams, like Satan in the desert, but by day makes you pig out on the worst dextrose the Midwest has to offer. Double yuck.
> 
> Never tried LSD but it intrigues me. The big scare job is this business about irreversible changes (a.k.a. "crystals" in the brain, as someone once said). But how many of us are seeking irreversible changes (for the better) in our behavior?


Those crystals in the brain/spine/whatever are a myth. The science pretty much all agrees that LSD is physically harmless.


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## IDK (Jan 16, 2009)

I heard crack cocaine can do wonders for SA, and it is pretty cheap too compared to alot of drugs. Crystal meth is pretty nice too and you can even make it yourself if you wanted which is convenient.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

IDK said:


> I heard crack cocaine can do wonders for SA, and it is pretty cheap too compared to alot of drugs. Crystal meth is pretty nice too and you can even make it yourself if you wanted which is convenient.


Do you honestly think LSD is as physically or mentally harmful as crack or meth?


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## shazzaTPM (Oct 29, 2008)

I've read some cases about people overcoming their SA after using LSD, like they had this enlightenment. I'm just scared, giving how weed intensifies my anxiety, I fear that LSD would too.

Ecstasy on the other hand, good times.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Weed is worse for my anxiety than LSD is, I really can't handle weed at all. Although I have felt enlightened by LSD, especially after my bad trips have really exposed my issues, I don't know whether that's really helped me in the long run. With anxiety in particular, it's very hard to use that rational knowledge you've gained in order to fight it. I can think about it as rationally as I like, but my body's fight or flight response doesn't seem to care what I think. And then I get anxious about the fact that people are seeing me having a panic attack, which makes the panic symptoms worse, which makes me even more anxious about people seeing me like that, and it's just a really vicious cycle that I'm not having a whole lot of success tackling. Benzos have helped me a great deal in many situations, but they're not something I'm comfortable taking 24/7.

The benefits of LSD are actually very similar to CBT though. They both help you identify problematic ways of thinking and can help guide you to think about things in a more positive and realistic light. In this way, both LSD and CBT have really enabled me to deal with emotions like anger, but anxiety is a very irrational response for me, almost instinctual, so it's been much harder to tackle so far.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

In CBT you can always ask the therapist to stop if it becomes too intense, LSD has no such brake cable lol. Once your on for the ride theres no turning back.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> In CBT you can always ask the therapist to stop if it becomes too intense, LSD has no such brake cable lol. Once your on for the ride theres no turning back.


Benzos can help calm you down and antipsychotics can stop a trip in its tracks. They're still very different and LSD no doubt has greater potential for mental trauma, especially in those with an existing mental disorder, so I would NEVER recommend that people start taking it. I was just saying that the results are fairly similar. Despite the horrifying times I've had on LSD (I haven't used it in quite a while), I'd love to do a few psychotherapy sessions, in a controlled environment, using it as a tool. If I really had the choice though I think MDMA has even better potential for use in psychotherapy.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

meyaj said:


> and antipsychotics can stop a trip in its tracks.


As can mirtazapine it seems (see earlier post), infact it seems that most potent 5HT2A antagonists will do the trick. What bothers me is the potential for HPPD, which suggests that LSD is causing some more permanent changes in the mind (particularly in the temporal lobes), than the 12 hour or whatever half life would have you believe.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> As can mirtazapine it seems (see earlier post), infact it seems that most potent 5HT2A antagonists will do the trick. What bothers me is the potential for HPPD, which suggests that LSD is causing some more permanent changes in the mind (particularly in the temporal lobes), than the 12 hour or whatever half life would have you believe.


Maybe that HPPD thing from LSD is more of a result of a psychological problem rather then a neurological one - some sort of PTSD from have a bad trip or something like that. LSD is such a concentrated chemical and nearly impossible to psychologically handle taking on a daily basis that I find it hard to believe it can do any lasting physical damage to any part of your body. I even took 10 hits at once one time in my youth, and it was the high quality stuff that doesn't come around very often.

I realize that if somebody got to know me in person they would notice some things about me like frequent severe migraines, a poor short term memory, attention span, and a habit of saying the wrong word for something (and knowing what the right word would be if I thought about it) without even noticing I said the wrong word. But I believe this has more to do with SA, ADHD, and all the other harsh drugs I've done in my life including binge drinking, huffing quite a bit of dangerous paint fumes when my brain was still developing. and also overdosing on meth, which theoretically could burn out your dopamine receptors (same thing with having such extreme benzo withdrawal that you have a seizure, which I've also done to my brain.).

What really bothers me though, is when I read those links (posted earlier) about HPPD, it sounded more like it had been caused by withdrawal from the anti-depressants that the author was taking. Despite how the drug companies claim anti-depressants are harmless, they still cause your brain to stop producing certain chemicals on it's own (until you stop and wait for you brain to grow that ability back, hopefully). What they really mean is that it's not possible for you to painlessly kill yourself. I wonder though, how bad it would wreck your brain, and how much neurological pain you would feel for the rest of your life if you overdosed on anti-depressants. :|

Main thing to remember about hallucinogens is that you should avoid having a bad trip at all costs. For me personally, that means eating healthy food, having plenty of rest first, and being around people I can trust. Also, like numerous people have brought up - keeping benzos or anti-psychotics around in case you need to come back down.


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## Toad Licker (Nov 2, 2007)

I can't imagine sitting around watching the walls melt is going to help my SA. It might help me be a better hermit though since I can't see myself wanting to talk to people while I'm that high so I'd just sit around at home doing nothing as I usually do, only high.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

Toad Licker said:


> I can't imagine sitting around watching the walls melt is going to help my SA. It might help me be a better hermit though since I can't see myself wanting to talk to people while I'm that high so I'd just sit around at home doing nothing as I usually do, only high.


Most of the effects are psychological and emotional, not visual. Your innermost fears and anxieties come to the surface and your mind is in a state which forces you to deal with it or else freak out. However, if you do way more then the recreational dosage, you tend to visualize some pretty cool things. But it's extremely intense psychologically/emotionally. Also, it's not something you would do on a daily basis if you were using it to overcome SA.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

The walls melting is practically a side effect. Nobody who has tripped at least once before does it primarily for the visuals...


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## Toad Licker (Nov 2, 2007)

I must be the odd man out then because I use to love the visual aspect of an LSD high.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

Has anyone here actually used something to come down off an LSD trip?

I was pretty deep into the culture for a while, and never heard of anything of that sort happening.


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## sssig (Mar 2, 2009)

IDK said:


> I heard crack cocaine can do wonders for SA, and it is pretty cheap too compared to alot of drugs. Crystal meth is pretty nice too and you can even make it yourself if you wanted which is convenient.


Cool Story Bro!


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Speaking of visuals, apparently this video clip was made to simulate the visuals of a trip lol.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Speaking of visuals, apparently this video clip was made to simulate the visuals of a trip lol.


way too bleak and washed-out to be a trip... trips are freaking colorful!


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

lol, my trip was nothing like that video. It increased my imagination and my ability to fantasize but I didn't actually see things move or bend. It also made me think. I don't know, I don't think that video is very realistic for your average dose.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

ivankaramazov said:


> Has anyone here actually used something to come down off an LSD trip?
> 
> I was pretty deep into the culture for a while, and never heard of anything of that sort happening.


I haven't personally, but I had a friend who was having a bad mushroom trip, went to the ER and they gave him a Valium which brought him back down.

Also, the guy who discovered LSD in the first place, accidentally gave himself a massive dose, and he found that drinking milk would bring him down for a while.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Yeah...I haven't done LSD or any illegal drug for that matter and I don't feel like that's a bad thing, haha. I've gotten so much better without resorting to something that puts my future in jeopardy (no matter what people on the Internet say, it is still illegal). I guess that since I don't feel like I need it it's just easy not go mess with it.

However, I would make the point that who you are on the drug isn't you. That's the drug. So...yeah, I don't think it's worth it. If you're gonna put the money, effort, time, into a solution, it might as well be a solution that actually sticks with you (positively). I don't know. I think it's a waste but good luck.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

TheDaffodil said:


> However, I would make the point that who you are on the drug isn't you. That's the drug.


You're entitled to your opinion on all that other stuff you said and all, but I am just curious if this part that I quoted would also apply to people who are on anti-depressants, caffeine, sugar, etc.?

Also, you sound almost like you are trying to make the OP feel guilty for the way that they were able to personally help their SA, but I really don't want to get into a debate since this was turning out to be such a nice, friendly thread. Just wanted to point out that you sound a little bit judgmental, though in a passive sort of way.

Not everyone's SA is subtle enough to get over without drugs, and not everyone can afford years of expensive therapy.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> Not everyone's SA is subtle enough to get over without drugs, and not everyone can afford years of expensive therapy.


...and whether it be 5, 10, 15 years of therapy, for some people it will always be akin to pissing on a bonfire to put it out.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> You're entitled to your opinion on all that other stuff you said and all, but I am just curious if this part that I quoted would also apply to people who are on anti-depressants, caffeine, sugar, etc.?
> 
> Also, you sound almost like you are trying to make the OP feel guilty for the way that they were able to personally help their SA, but I really don't want to get into a debate since this was turning out to be such a nice, friendly thread. Just wanted to point out that you sound a little bit judgmental, though in a passive sort of way.
> 
> Not everyone's SA is subtle enough to get over without drugs, and not everyone can afford years of expensive therapy.


I really wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad. I was giving my honest opinion and since I'm entitled to that, I don't see the problem.

I do think that when you do something illegal, you put your future in jeopardy.
I do think that if you feel like you need it you will do it anyway. I didn't say that was wrong. I understand that people may feel that way and that's their choice.
I do think that people who do drugs are different when they're not on drugs. I think this because I've been around people in both circumstances and they are different. I don't think that's the real them. That's them under the influence - not their pure selves. When you take the drugs away, you still have anxiety. That's my point.
I do think that if you want a solution, drugs are temporary.

Again that's my opinion and I am just another person on the Internet to everyone else here. You might not like what I said but I said and I stick by it just like the OP said what they wanted to say whether people would like it or not.

By the way, I almost ended up institutionalized for my anxiety. It wasn't a small problem so please don't assume that that's where I'm coming from - a small place - because it is not. Most of my progress I made on my own with the help of medication and a professional, yes, but the credit goes to me. I did that. Not medication. Not my therapist (who I didn't see for any outrageous amount of time because she was transferred to another facility).


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

^ That's great how you were able to do it better then the OP and the rest of the druggies. Congratulations.

Also, I never said your SA wasn't bad. I said "Not everyone's SA is subtle enough to get over without drugs", and you _did_ use drugs (aka "medication").

Anyway, there are some situations in life where it's actually worse for your future if you _don't_ break the law. Like in the OP's case. That's an individual decision that has to be made though, and nobody can be correct with a blanket statement like "It's bad to break the law."

It kind of reminds me of when I was reading the blog of that guy who shot all those women in that gym recently. I remember noticing that he said something like "I wish I could try smoking pot, but I don't know how to find it.". Then he starts drinking alcohol, and the next thing you know he's going on a suicidal killing spree. He never broke any laws up until he started shooting, but I have to wonder if he would have snapped out of his *****y attitude if he _had_ broken the law and bought some weed.

Come to think of it, I don't remember the media or anyone ever blaming it on alcohol either, like they probably would have if he had been smoking pot or shooting up on heroin beforehand.

Anyway, this is all theoretical, but it is at least obvious that his life of _non_-crime was no magical solution to happiness and success. And it did not keep him from intentionally harming other people who had done nothing to him.

I guess my point is just that everyone is different, and reacts to different drugs differently, so how about you just stick to what works for you, and let everyone else stick to what works for them. 

Peace.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

TheDaffodil said:


> I really wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad. I was giving my honest opinion and since I'm entitled to that, I don't see the problem.
> 
> I do think that when you do something illegal, you put your future in jeopardy.
> I do think that if you feel like you need it you will do it anyway. I didn't say that was wrong. I understand that people may feel that way and that's their choice.
> ...


But if what he did Ayahusca instead? Make it yourself into a brew and you'll be tripping much harder than on LSD, especially if you mix the brew with chocolate. Completely legal because none of the natural ingredients are illegal.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> ^ That's great how you were able to do it better then the OP and the rest of the druggies. Congratulations.
> 
> Also, I never said your SA wasn't bad. I said "Not everyone's SA is subtle enough to get over without drugs", and you _did_ use drugs (aka "medication").
> 
> ...


I was under the impression we were talking about illegal drugs and because of that I felt the need to tell you that I did without using illegal drugs.

I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to say this but: I recognize that some people feel like they need illegal drugs and I recognize they can make that choice for themselves.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> But if what he did Ayahusca instead? Make it yourself into a brew and you'll be tripping much harder than on LSD, especially if you mix the brew with chocolate. Completely legal because none of the natural ingredients are illegal.


OK it looks like you just want to argue with me (since I never made a comparison beyond legality) but I'm gonna bite - I didn't say illegal drugs were worse than prescription drugs. But I did say that you jeopardize your future because of the fact that it's illegal. Whether you agree with it being illegal or not, it still is. That's as much as I can say, all I will say, because I'm not an expert on drugs.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Thomas Paine said:


> Maybe that HPPD thing from LSD is more of a result of a psychological problem rather then a neurological one - some sort of PTSD from have a bad trip or something like that. LSD is such a concentrated chemical and nearly impossible to psychologically handle taking on a daily basis that I find it hard to believe it can do any lasting physical damage to any part of your body. I even took 10 hits at once one time in my youth, and it was the high quality stuff that doesn't come around very often.


HPPD occurs from long-term use rather than 1 time or taking a higher than normal dose. HPPD only affects perception, you see a halo consistantly or you look up and you see the ceiling melt, twist and cascade a little. But it fades over time. That's not what "dangerous" about LSD and other psychedelics. I put dangerous in quotation marks because it's all relative what danger means to one.

Psychedelics produce one of the most profound experience one would have, you might experience ego-loss, which you have the ability to explore the deepest part of yourself and see everything without bias, prejudices, preconceptions. You go on a journey discovering the deepest parts of your mind, the way you view the world changes as you go through the experience. During ego loss, which I'm certain you experienced taking 10 hits of acid, you tear yourself psychologically evidently after the trip, and it alters your personality a bit because you'll remember what you experienced. That's good if you use those sessions and walk away from it when you feel more free or you came to realization about your issues and you use the experience to change. The problem is when you get the message and don't hang up the phone. You keep experiencing ego loss and tearing your mind over and over again until you become stagnant. Because even after the trip, it'll take you to the door, but if you don't walk through and overcome it within you, you'll be back to what you were eventually. LSD and psychedelics are good tools to use, but it shouldn't be looked at as a cure because you use it in an environment you aren't comfortable or the experience isn't up to par or bad it'll easily drag you down psychologically. There's a lot of variables involved.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

^ Makes sense, warewolf. I did make something move with my mind (on purpose). That can't be good to experience on a daily basis and forget that it's not _really_ happening.



TheDaffodil said:


> OK it looks like you just want to argue with me (since I never made a comparison beyond legality) but I'm gonna bite - I didn't say illegal drugs were worse than prescription drugs. But I did say that you jeopardize your future because of the fact that it's illegal. Whether you agree with it being illegal or not, it still is. That's as much as I can say, all I will say, because I'm not an expert on drugs.


So you are in favor of legalizing all drugs so that nobody gets their future jeopardized, since some people are born into that culture and don't know any other way?


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> I haven't personally, but I had a friend who was having a bad mushroom trip, went to the ER and they gave him a Valium which brought him back down.
> 
> Also, the guy who discovered LSD in the first place, accidentally gave himself a massive dose, and he found that drinking milk would bring him down for a while.


I think he did that because it was the default thing to drink if you'd been poisoned. I'd heard that, and that orange juice intensifies trips. Tried both, both are bull**** in my opinion.

Something like valium would pipe the person down, but I don't see how it would stop the trip. Large quantities of marijuana did the same. The person would still be freaking out, but at least they were less mobile and therefore more manageable.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Thomas Paine said:


> ^ Makes sense, warewolf. I did make something move with my mind (on purpose). That can't be good to experience on a daily basis and forget that it's not _really_ happening.


But it's not like you feel like you are tripping, it's just some visuals that persist even when you are sober. I guess it could have some psychological effect because you see visuals all the time, but it isn't so bad. Over time, those visuals start to fade.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

BTW, the Daffodil is right about you taking a risk. Anytime you buy, use, or even hang out near them, you're taking a risk. Doesn't matter if you're with people you think are friends, eventually you get pinched. With a good lawyer and some 12 step jargon you can get out of most drug charges these days, but it still stains your record. For example...

Since 9/11, any decent job you want does a background check, and things like drugs are a red flag. My record is clear for the last 8 years but I still have to tackle the issue in every job interview process I go through. It hasn't been a huge deal, but I'm sure I've missed opportunities as a result.

Then there's the constant annoyance of having to deal with cops bothering you during routine stops, asking questions that they obviously wouldn't had they not just pulled up your record.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Certainly in the sense of jeopardizing your future by getting arrested of course. But in the sense does the drug itself jeopardize your future? Only if you don't exhibit self-control can the drug itself damage your future. 

But realistically unless you take LSD frequently or you are selling it, the likelihood of arrest is minimal if you it once or twice. It's only when you start using it frequently that it'll increase your risk for legal trouble and the dangers become apparent.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> ^ Makes sense, warewolf. I did make something move with my mind (on purpose). That can't be good to experience on a daily basis and forget that it's not _really_ happening.
> 
> So you are in favor of legalizing all drugs so that nobody gets their future jeopardized, since some people are born into that culture and don't know any other way?


Oh my goodness, I did not say anything like that. I am not an expert on drugs. I cannot make a determination for what is safe and what is not safe for the human body. Really. This is getting ridiculous.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

jim_morrison said:


> Speaking of visuals, apparently this video clip was made to simulate the visuals of a trip lol.


Looks at the post, then the username... ah, the irony. :lol 

http://www.nndb.com/people/463/000022397/


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Phoebus said:


> Looks at the post, then the username... ah, the irony. :lol
> 
> http://www.nndb.com/people/463/000022397/


I am the lizard king, I can post anything


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

TheDaffodil said:


> Oh my goodness, I did not say anything like that. I am not an expert on drugs. I cannot make a determination for what is safe and what is not safe for the human body. Really. This is getting ridiculous.


That's exactly the point I was trying to make that just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's dangerous, and just because something is legal doesn't mean it's safe. You shouldn't solely view something as dangerous just because of legality.

The substance I referred to is root bark and seeds, mixed with lemon juice that go through a process called de-fating. The ingredients, Mimosa Hostilis and Syrian Rue (which serves as an activator) are completely legal, you can order it off the internet for less than $30. The ingredient you are trying to activate is DMT, which is illegal in crystallized form. But since you are extracting it from a plant source and never crystallizing it, it's completely legal. Just because this is legal, does it mean it's "safer" than LSD? Absolutely not. Even a natural occurring form of LSD, from ergot, which is basically a fungus that grows on rye is typically poisonous when eaten. That's how Albert Hoffman originally extracted LSD.

This is not to say I'm an expert on drugs, I just tried a lot of drugs in my lifetime, more than most and many types of drugs people have not even heard of. If anyone was an expert on drugs, they'd have a background in organic chemistry and have the ability to make them.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> That's exactly the point I was trying to make that just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's dangerous, and just because something is legal doesn't mean it's safe. You shouldn't solely view something as dangerous just because of legality.
> 
> The substance I referred to is root bark and seeds, mixed with lemon juice that go through a process called de-fating. The ingredients, Mimosa Hostilis and Syrian Rue (which serves as an activator) are completely legal, you can order it off the internet for less than $30. The ingredient you are trying to activate is DMT, which is illegal in crystallized form. But since you are extracting it from a plant source and never crystallizing it, it's completely legal. Just because this is legal, does it mean it's "safer" than LSD? Absolutely not. Even a natural occurring form of LSD, from ergot, which is basically a fungus that grows on rye is typically poisonous when eaten. That's how Albert Hoffman originally extracted LSD.
> 
> This is not to say I'm an expert on drugs, I just tried a lot of drugs in my lifetime, more than most and many types of drugs people have not even heard of. If anyone was an expert on drugs, they'd have a background in organic chemistry and have the ability to make them.


I didn't say anything about it being physically dangerous. I said it's jeopardizes your future (meaning it goes on your record if you're caught - not that it does anything to your body). I'm sorry if anyone interpreted what I said as, "Oh it's illegal so it does terrible things to your body." That's not what I said, that's not what I meant, and that's not even what I believe.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

In that sense it does and the risk increases if you get deeply involved with it. The risk of getting arrested with LSD is minimal because it's not something one would do everyday, two, it's relatively scarce in comparison to other drugs and three, the substrate that stores the LSD is so small, most cops don't even know what they are looking for. In order to get arrested for LSD, you'd basically have to ask for it by either doing something so dumb in order to get searched in the first place, you were horribly unlucky or you were selling it on a regular basis. It's also impossible to test whether one took LSD, it has no bearing on drug tests unlike the majority of other drugs. In comparison to other drugs, the risk of LSD is nothing. However if you get caught with LSD, you will be penalized the most, you'll get at least 10 years. But that's the risk one would have to undertake if they want to try LSD. But that's not what the main danger from LSD, not the one users typically encounter.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> In that sense it does and the risk increases if you get deeply involved with it. The risk of getting arrested with LSD is minimal because it's not something one would do everyday, two, it's relatively scarce in comparison to other drugs and three, the substrate that stores the LSD is so small, most cops don't even know what they are looking for. In order to get arrested for LSD, you'd basically have to ask for it by either doing something so dumb in order to get searched in the first place, you were horribly unlucky or you were selling it on a regular basis. It's also impossible to test whether one took LSD, it has no bearing on drug tests unlike the majority of other drugs. In comparison to other drugs, the risk of LSD is nothing. However if you get caught with LSD, you will be penalized the most, you'll get at least 10 years. But that's the risk one would have to undertake if they want to try LSD. But that's not what the main danger from LSD, not the one users typically encounter.


Mhm.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

Is there anybody who really doesn't know that using acid can get you in trouble with the law? That was not even what you were trying to say with your entry into this thread:


TheDaffodil said:


> Yeah...I haven't done LSD or any illegal drug for that matter *and I don't feel like that's a bad thing, haha*. I've gotten so much better without resorting to something that puts my future in jeopardy (no matter what people on the Internet say, it is still illegal). I guess that since I don't feel like I need it it's just easy not go mess with it.
> 
> *However, I would make the point that who you are on the drug isn't you. That's the drug. So...yeah, I don't think it's worth it. If you're gonna put the money, effort, time, into a solution, it might as well be a solution that actually sticks with you (positively). I don't know. I think it's a waste but good luck.*


So why don't you just admit that you think there is something morally wrong with using *illegal* drugs? Lots of people do. And if you don't think there is anything morally wrong with it, then why don't you speak out that drugs should be legalized and people should simply be warned of the health dangers of using them the "street" way. Probably about 90% of the dangers of any drug come from the way high prices change the way you have to use them. For example, people only inject heroin because it saves money. If it were cheap and legal, they would probably stick to eating it. Or like with LSD, many kids who have a bad trip are afraid to talk to a therapist about it for fear of getting in trouble, so they end up not getting any help for dealing with that bad trip.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> Or like with LSD, many kids who have a bad trip are afraid to talk to a therapist about it for fear of getting in trouble, so they end up not getting any help for dealing with that bad trip.


I've had a few bad trips and although it has the potential to be informative to my psychiatrist and therapist, I don't bother talking about it because I know their experience is very limited with it, so they'll just say something similar to what TheDaffodil said, ie "Don't worry about it, that's just the drug making you crazy, it has nothing to do with you."

Either way, so much of our mood and perception is chemically regulated anyways, that I find it ridiculous to suggest that who you are on a drug isn't you, unless for some reason you believe in a god that intended for you to be chemically the way you are, in which case God wants you to be depressed and you shouldn't bother treating it. If you're schizophrenic and hearing voices, apparently you shouldn't be treating that either.

In my view, I'd argue that anything that can be changed about you with a chemical isn't really "you" in the first place. That is why I experimented with LSD in the first place... it really seems to strip you of everything else so that you're just forced to deal with yourself head-on. I haven't taken any psychedelics in a few years though because it's just become too hard for me to deal with.


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## NeedleInTheHay (May 20, 2007)

millenniumman75 said:


> It can do weird things with the mind, years after you get off of it. It leaves like crystals or something in the brain that can cause highs at bad times and stuff, or something like that. :stu


It always amazes me how you think you know so much about drug and alcohol use, yet you really know nothing on the subject so why continue to post in all of them? Your posts are like walking cliche after school specials.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Certainly in the sense of jeopardizing your future by getting arrested of course. But in the sense does the drug itself jeopardize your future? Only if you don't exhibit self-control can the drug itself damage your future.
> 
> But realistically unless you take LSD frequently or you are selling it, the likelihood of arrest is minimal if you it once or twice. It's only when you start using it frequently that it'll increase your risk for legal trouble and the dangers become apparent.


I was speaking to drugs in general, as was daffodil since I'm guessing she can't tell crack rock from a geltab.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

Well since LSD is a psychedelic, there's bound to be positive experiences after a trip. I remember after a extremely positive shroom trip (it was like an epiphany), I was a changed person for like a month. I was always positive, in a good mood, would speak my mind whenever, and wanted to help others massively. But this all faded over about the course of another month and I wouldn't be surprised if the after effect (like I mentioned) only lasts a short time like my experience (only with shrooms though). My short term positive effects were very similar to the starter of this thread.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

ivankaramazov said:


> I was speaking to drugs in general, as was daffodil since I'm guessing she can't tell crack rock from a geltab.


I can, thank you.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> Is there anybody who really doesn't know that using acid can get you in trouble with the law? That was not even what you were trying to say with your entry into this thread:
> 
> So why don't you just admit that you think there is something morally wrong with using *illegal* drugs? Lots of people do. And if you don't think there is anything morally wrong with it, then why don't you speak out that drugs should be legalized and people should simply be warned of the health dangers of using them the "street" way. Probably about 90% of the dangers of any drug come from the way high prices change the way you have to use them. For example, people only inject heroin because it saves money. If it were cheap and legal, they would probably stick to eating it. Or like with LSD, many kids who have a bad trip are afraid to talk to a therapist about it for fear of getting in trouble, so they end up not getting any help for dealing with that bad trip.


I don't know why you want to argue with me. You must not like me, haha. You must really despise me to keep going for this long. It's fine if you don't but I will not allow someone to continuously pick on me.
It seems like you want so badly to put me on the spot over and over because you don't like the things I said. It seems like you want me to be wrong but you do not know me. And I will reiterate - *you do not know me*. Do not assume my moral stance on anything.
I'm going to tell you straight up that what you are thinking about me is incorrect. Let's be clear: I do not disagree with you. I really don't. But whether or not certain drugs should be legalized is _loosely_ related to the thread so I didn't go there.

I get it, too. I get that I didn't say the popular thing to say on this thread. I knew that most people would read it and assume that I'm anti-drug because that's what it looks like on the surface. I just thought that people here knew better than to judge things on the surface seeing that they'd have a lot of experience feeling judged by other people. I was so wrong on that, haha.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

^ My only issue is with the way you came into this thread making a negative remark about what we were trying to discuss. You can try to play it off like it wasn't negative, but it's not hard to see. I simply pointed that out, and then you started backpedaling and trying to make it sound like you weren't saying what you were really saying. Then it got a little annoying when you kept it up, so I called you on it.

It has nothing to do with you personally, I don't hate you, and it has everything to do with you being in this thread when you do not support the OP's way of doing things. If I were to go into a thread about Christianity and start telling people all the dangers of it, I would be starting trouble and probably get an infraction for it.

We already have a hard enough time talking about these types of issues without the moderators censoring us, and when we finally get a productive discussion going, all the self-proclaimed non-drug users feel the need to come in and point out things that we have already had thrown at us since we smoked our first joint.

It just gets a little old, that's all. Please don't take it personally, I know that you don't really understand what it's like so I can't really judge you. Just please don't get upset if I counter everything you say. I am free to speak my mind just as you are.


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## UMahOnly1 (Sep 19, 2009)

Drugs are dangerous and It's good to steer clear of danger.


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## Zirnitra (Sep 19, 2009)

I was considering this but then I pussied out/forgot about it. 

This thread has rekindled my interest. I still remain unsure.


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## Thomas Ninja (Sep 18, 2009)

ive been looking for lsd since 5/08, but its impossible to find. It gives me new purpose reading all the positive outcomes and all.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

Thomas Ninja said:


> ive been looking for lsd since 5/08, but its impossible to find. It gives me new purpose reading all the positive outcomes and all.


Go to a music festival. It will find you.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

TheDaffodil said:


> I can, thank you.


That wasn't necessarily an insult...


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> ^ My only issue is with the way you came into this thread making a negative remark about what we were trying to discuss. You can try to play it off like it wasn't negative, but it's not hard to see. I simply pointed that out, and then you started backpedaling and trying to make it sound like you weren't saying what you were really saying. Then it got a little annoying when you kept it up, so I called you on it.
> 
> It has nothing to do with you personally, I don't hate you, and it has everything to do with you being in this thread when you do not support the OP's way of doing things. If I were to go into a thread about Christianity and start telling people all the dangers of it, I would be starting trouble and probably get an infraction for it.
> 
> ...


I wasn't backpedaling. I was trying to make it clear what I meant. I can re-examine what I said for you if that makes it better:

"Yeah...I haven't done LSD or any illegal drug for that matter and I don't feel like that's a bad thing, haha." - Being lighthearted towards those who think that people who don't do illegal drugs are prudish. I don't mean that all of you think that but I have encountered people who do think that so...that's what that is about. Not a big deal.

"I've gotten so much better without resorting to something that puts my future in jeopardy (no matter what people on the Internet say, it is still illegal). I guess that since I don't feel like I need it it's just easy not go mess with it." - Saying yes, I have gotten better without it and also recognizing that not everyone is me.

"However, I would make the point that who you are on the drug isn't you. That's the drug." - This is probably where I should have said more. In my mind I was thinking about the people I have seen on drugs (not just illegal ones but medications as well). I was just typing as I was thinking about them.

"So...yeah, I don't think it's worth it. If you're gonna put the money, effort, time, into a solution, it might as well be a solution that actually sticks with you (positively)." - Again, I was thinking about my personal experiences so I could've said more. I considered illegal substances at one point but I decided against it because I didn't think it would solve anything long-term and I was looking for long-term solutions. I'm also really picky about what I spend my money on, haha.

"I don't know. I think it's a waste but good luck." - Recognizing that I don't know everything about drugs but sticking by what I said. And good luck because I don't want anybody who's just trying to be happy to get in trouble. That's sincere. I don't want anyone with social anxiety to get crapped on by society because I know what it's like to struggle with it and want any solution you can get.

I really wasn't saying anything bad but I guess I didn't do a good job of conveying what I meant...? I didn't wanna write a book. I just wanted to type some stuff and move on, haha. I didn't realize it was a sensitive topic and that everyone would feel like I was dogging on them. You might not believe me but that was not my intention. The explanations I just gave you are honestly what I was thinking.
I didn't think that just because I don't use drugs, I am excluded.
I understand, though, why you would be upset about it and jump to defend the OP and all. I'm sorry you felt like I was being totally negative. I wasn't trying to be that way. I was just thinking and typing, casually, and didn't think it'd be a big deal.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

ivankaramazov said:


> That wasn't necessarily an insult...


I'm sorry. I'm still a bit in defense mode. :|


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

You really don't need to apologize. It's not that big a deal. Sorry.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

I found this pretty cool video about that Ayahuasca stuff:

Hmm... might have to check this stuff out.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> I found this pretty cool video about that Ayahuasca stuff:
> 
> Hmm... might have to check this stuff out.


I've really refrained from drug use in the past few years, but I've spent a lot of time debating whether or not I'd try oral DMT if I'm ever put on an MAOI.


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## contranigma (Jun 24, 2009)

This thread is getting so many posts I can't keep up. Ayahuasca makes you throw up I believe. Belladonna is supposedly a very strong hallucinogen. I have heard that people trip for days on Belladonna and that the hallucinations seem just like reality. So that can be a really scary thing. Also, it has scopalamine in it, I think, which has pretty bad long term effects on the memory. In Columbia it's used to rob people as it will make them completely cooperative with the crime.


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## contranigma (Jun 24, 2009)

DMT sounds interesting, too. Joe Rogan really endorses it, but that's not saying much. There are two different types. I think the legal kind will still get you very high but there are less visual hallucinations. It is also naturally occuring in the body, so I am surprised somewhat that it is illegal.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

contranigma said:


> DMT sounds interesting, too. Joe Rogan really endorses it, but that's not saying much. There are two different types. I think the legal kind will still get you very high but there are less visual hallucinations. It is also naturally occuring in the body, so I am surprised somewhat that it is illegal.


Heroin-like opioids and marijuana-like cannabinoids are also naturally occurring in the body. In fact, the cannabinoid receptor GB1 is probably the most ubiquitous receptor in the brain.

I'm saddened by the fact that society seems to think it's appropriate to throw people in prison for putting a substance into their own body, but I can't say I'm surprised.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

contranigma said:


> DMT sounds interesting, too. Joe Rogan really endorses it, but that's not saying much. There are two different types. I think the legal kind will still get you very high but there are less visual hallucinations. It is also naturally occuring in the body, so I am surprised somewhat that it is illegal.


the book DMT: the spirit molecule by Dr Rick Strassman = great read!


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

contranigma said:


> DMT sounds interesting, too. Joe Rogan really endorses it, but that's not saying much. There are two different types. I think the legal kind will still get you very high but there are less visual hallucinations. It is also naturally occuring in the body, so I am surprised somewhat that it is illegal.


If you get DMT in crystallized form, you base it and you'll have a very intense trip for approximately 1/2 an hour more than you'd get from a plant source. If you do it from a plant source, it really depends on what type of plant source you choose. But if you make it right, and add chocolate which intensifies the trip for Tryptamines, it's incredibly intense. It does make you throw up because those plant sources are indigestible and man, you really throw up hard. None the less it's an incredibly visual trip, more so than LSD for about 5-6 hours. The best part it's cleaner when you come down, there is minimal comedown effect unlike other psychedelics. To describe DMT, if mushrooms is a Honda Civic, DMT is a Porsche, the trips between shrooms and DMT are quite similar except DMT has much more horsepower.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

In Search of the Divine Vegetal - part one of a good documentary on ayahuasca, from CBC's Ideas. Explores shamanism and the role of ayahuasca in the spiritual and everyday lives of native Peruvians.


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## tutliputli (Feb 22, 2009)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> It has changed the way I view things and made me more carefree. I don't feel so confined within myself. Now when I want to say something, I say it with confidence. If nobody likes what I had to say, too bad so sad. I said it because I wanted to and didn't hurt anyone in the process. That's a win.
> 
> Any other experiences like this?


I think it's really cool that you had such a positive experience with it. I had a similar one with MDMA, but the thoughts and feelings didn't last. I'd like to try LSD but am a little scared of it. My dad told me about a friend of a friend who had taken LSD and hallucinated a snake round his neck, and had stabbed himself :afr


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

I have friends who used LSD (they are clean now, don't even smoke or drink alcohol). But I can assure you that the (ab)use of this extremely potent substance was 'not very helpful to improve their psychological condition' in the past.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

tutliputli said:


> My dad told me about a friend of a friend who had taken LSD and hallucinated a snake round his neck, and had stabbed himself :afr


Urban legend. There are hundreds of them about LSD. "A friend of a friend" is the first clue that something is an urban legend. 



Medline said:


> I have friends who used LSD (they are clean now, don't even smoke or drink alcohol). But I can assure you that the (ab)use of this extremely potent substance was 'not very helpful to improve their psychological condition' in the past.


I think it all depends on how you are using it, and why.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

tutliputli said:


> I think it's really cool that you had such a positive experience with it. I had a similar one with MDMA, but the thoughts and feelings didn't last. I'd like to try LSD but am a little scared of it. My dad told me about a friend of a friend who had taken LSD and hallucinated a snake round his neck, and had stabbed himself :afr


Yeah probly urban legend, like that urban legend that lsd made someone stare into the sun so long that they went blind, or that it made someone believe that they could fly and jump off a building, all of thats probly bull. A member of my family (not a friend of a friend) however took lsd once and ended up in a mental hospital in a catatonic state, so theres no bloody way I'd try it personally, doubt it would suit my genetics. HPPD is IMO the real major complication.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

My favorite one is about the guy who thought he was an orange and peeled himself.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Didn't something like that supposedly happen to one of the members of pink floyd?


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## Zirnitra (Sep 19, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Didn't something like that supposedly happen to one of the members of pink floyd?


No, but Syd Barret took LSD on a daily basis and his musical talent began to falter...especially since he would start playing the wrong song in the middle of a completely different one.

Then they kicked him off and Syd died.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

tutliputli said:


> I think it's really cool that you had such a positive experience with it. I had a similar one with MDMA, but the thoughts and feelings didn't last. I'd like to try LSD but am a little scared of it. My dad told me about a friend of a friend who had taken LSD and hallucinated a snake round his neck, and had stabbed himself :afr


One thing I don't get about MDMA users, or any other street drug really, is don't you worry that it could be anything in the pill? be it adultrants like PMA or ketamine or even some toxic chemical as the result of a poorly maintained facility where it was made?
I don't really see the point in taking something which could be made under poor standards in a questionable facility of which you know nothing about.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> One thing I don't get about MDMA users, or any other street drug really, is don't you worry that it could be anything in the pill? be it adultrants like PMA or ketamine or even some toxic chemical as the result of a poorly maintained facility where it was made?
> I don't really see the point in taking something which could be made under poor standards in a questionable facility of which you know nothing about.


Well unfortunately there is no alternative. You're best off buying "molly" which is MDMA crystals, and is generally of much better quality. If ANY drug has the potential to help social anxiety, it is MDMA, and I don't regret trying it. It's such an amazing drug, psychologically. It makes you love yourself and others and it's incredible but so difficult to describe.

I haven't used it in a while, but yes, the concern is always there. But I think a lot of people with SA (I know I was) are afraid to take even the tiniest risks. So for me, just letting go of that and saying "**** it" was almost therapeutic in itself. I'm always so focused on keeping things in my control, and stressing over the consequences of everything, and it's really not healthy. For similar reasons I got a big tattoo on my arm earlier this year, something I would have been totally opposed to even just a few months before then (worried about ending up regretting it, etc.)

So yeah, there's a risk. Although to be honest, ketamine isn't that bad - there is much worse stuff that makes its way in pills. But by sticking to the crystals, I minimized the risk a bit. ****, there are over the counter vitamins and stuff that sometimes make people sick because the doses weren't distributed correctly.

Bottom line though is that, I know with my SA at least, it's partially born out of a fear of taking even the smallest risks. It's hard, but any time I can let go of that anxiety and need for control is a positive experience for me.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

meyaj said:


> Bottom line though is that, I know with my SA at least, it's partially born out of a fear of taking even the smallest risks. It's hard, but any time I can let go of that anxiety and need for control is a positive experience for me.


You raise an interesting point, I also find myself afraid to take the smallest risks, so yes learning to let go, or face any fear is usually a positive experience.


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## tutliputli (Feb 22, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> One thing I don't get about MDMA users, or any other street drug really, is don't you worry that it could be anything in the pill? be it adultrants like PMA or ketamine or even some toxic chemical as the result of a poorly maintained facility where it was made?
> I don't really see the point in taking something which could be made under poor standards in a questionable facility of which you know nothing about.


It wasn't a pill, MDMA is the crystal, pure form 

EDIT: I'd never, ever touch ecstasy in pill form!


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## tutliputli (Feb 22, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> Yeah probly urban legend, like that urban legend that lsd made someone stare into the sun so long that they went blind, or that it made someone believe that they could fly and jump off a building, all of thats probly bull. A member of my family (not a friend of a friend) however took lsd once and ended up in a mental hospital in a catatonic state, so theres no bloody way I'd try it personally, doubt it would suit my genetics. HPPD is IMO the real major complication.


I guess that makes sense, although my dad isn't the kind of person to make things up. I imagine if you had a bad trip (and survived!) it'd be enough to put you off for life.


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## tutliputli (Feb 22, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> Urban legend. There are hundreds of them about LSD. "A friend of a friend" is the first clue that something is an urban legend.


Yeah, that does make sense but my dad's not the kind of person to make things up. He's really open about drugs and has told me about plenty of good trips he's had on all kinds of things. Maybe he said that to put me off LSD though :roll


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

I find it funny how at first some drugs have an awful taste, then over time the brain makes you enjoy it. Like GBL is one of the foulest tasting substances in the world (imagine drinking drain-cleaner), but eventually I squirted mL after mL into my mouth with only a mouthful of water to dilute it, and looked forward to tasting it. I knew people who liked crystal MDMA's taste as well.


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## KyleThomas (Jul 1, 2009)

Crack cocaine and mainlining heroin did it for me.

Each to their own, I suppose.


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## ippa (Jul 21, 2009)

i use dxm (dextrometorphan) occasionaly, 200mg, one bottle of cough syrup, i use it already for 4-5 years, at the begining when i first started using it i had many bad trips, one was so scary (i took 800mg then) that i quit using it for year, but then i started using it again and i dont know how but i developed easy attitude to the thoughts that are coming to the mind during the trip and dont take them too seriously (like watching from the side at me) that i never had a bad trip from that time but only nice intelligent trips, i think the main problem why people have bad trips is because they begin to fear their thoughts during the trip and begin to overreact to them and end up having panic attack, as for me dxm doesnt cured me, but at least im thankfull for these deep experiences inside my mind under the trips.


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## Crunchie (Sep 21, 2009)

I don't think it's useful for a long time, only for a short time.
It's like alcohol, you can become addicted easily it's make you feel good and then...
you fall down more and more,
I personally love alcohol it's make me be more happy, more free and confident in myself
but after the influence it's not so good..


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Crunchie said:


> It's like alcohol, you can become addicted easily it's make you feel good and then...
> you fall down more and more,


That's why I don't do anything now. I don't even take medication (not even over-the-counter stuff) and alcohol...I won't have my own glass of anything. I'll sip someone else's and walk away.

I'm prone to addiction. Whenever I'm stressed out or feeling sad something in my mind tells me, "You HAVE to put this in your body. It will make you feel good. You don't have a choice." I actually talked to my mom about this about a month ago.... It wasn't till I ended up in ER (doctors should really be more careful about who they're giving medication to) that I really decided I couldn't do anything anymore. My body was in pain and I didn't feel good emotionally. Sure, when I took the pills I physically felt like I was doing the right thing but my mind was blurred.

It's not that I think all drugs would affect me the same way but I'm so afraid of becoming addicted to anything that I really just stick to vitamins and supplements (multivitamin, calcium + vitamin D, and echinacea).

When I have thoughts like that in the second paragraph, it makes me feel grimy. I don't want to be like anyone in my extended family.

I don't know if you've seen that movie _Sunshine Cleaning_ but a character in it said that she felt like when people did things like drugs or alcohol it makes cracks in their psyche and bad things seep through. I don't put that on other people but I do feel like that about myself, that if I do do something, I'm more vulnerable to bad things...I'll be like aunts, uncles, cousins. Maybe people are built differently and some people can handle that stuff better but I know I'm not built to do drugs and get positive results - I'm built to do drugs and lose everything.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

^ Great story.

Anyway, LSD and other hallucinogens are nothing like alcohol, and if anything are the opposite in how they bring you pleasure.

With alcohol, coke, heroin, etc... you get a super high, good feeling about yourself right away and then it gradually wears off and you end up in withdrawal feeling worse then you did before you took it.

With hallucinogens (in high enough dosages), you usually wish it would end before it actually does. It is usually a very trying experience and doesn't necessarily feel "good". Sometimes it can be cool to see things melt, etc., but at the higher dosages it's actually kind of scary. So then it gradually wears off and you start to sort out all the intense thoughts that you had during the trip, and hopefully you gain some insight into yourself. You don't get withdrawal or a hangover, but you are left with more of a peaceful feeling and realization that none of your exaggerated thoughts were real. That's why it is refreshing, like conquering some great fear inside of yourself, and completely different then other drugs.

At least this has been my experience. And I hope this clears up some of the confusion for people who have _unfortunately_ never had a chance to trip complete ****ing balls before.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> With hallucinogens (in high enough dosages), you usually wish it would end before it actually does. It is usually a very trying experience and doesn't necessarily feel "good". Sometimes it can be cool to see things melt, etc., but at the higher dosages it's actually kind of scary. So then it gradually wears off and you start to sort out all the intense thoughts that you had during the trip, and hopefully you gain some insight into yourself. You don't get withdrawal or a hangover, but you are left with more of a peaceful feeling and realization that none of your exaggerated thoughts were real. That's why it is refreshing, like conquering some great fear inside of yourself, and completely different then other drugs.


Well once you did it once...why do it again? I'm not trying to be a jerk; just curious because I'm thinking...what's the difference between each time you do it that makes it worth sticking to? Is it because the hallucinations are different every time so that's what keeps it being refreshing and not just the same ol' thing?


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

TheDaffodil said:


> Well once you did it once...why do it again? I'm not trying to be a jerk; just curious because I'm thinking...what's the difference between each time you do it that makes it worth sticking to? Is it because the hallucinations are different every time so that's what keeps it being refreshing and not just the same ol' thing?


That's a good question, and I think it has more to do with the fact that once you start tripping, you are in a state of mind where you aren't thinking about whether it is the same as last time, hopefully you are tripping hard enough to where you can't even remember the last time, and usually it's not exactly the same anyway. Like for me, a large part of it usually involves me worrying that I have been poisoned and am going to die. That's not the whole time of the trip though, but it is a recurring thing for me and it doesn't get any more dull each time it happens. The positive thing about it is that it helps me face down that fear and finally say "**** it, so what if I'm gonna die", and usually along the way I realize what is most important to me in my life and end up with a sense of direction.

Kind of like when you go to the therapist and they tell you something that they've told you before, but it's good to hear because it is a reminder of something that you were starting to forget.

Also, if you haven't tripped for a little while, you very quickly forget just how intense it was to see the world from that other point of view.

It really is hard to explain in words though. It always ends up sounding different to someone else then how it really felt for you personally.


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## TheDaffodil (Jun 20, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> That's a good question, and I think it has more to do with the fact that once you start tripping, you are in a state of mind where you aren't thinking about whether it is the same as last time, hopefully you are tripping hard enough to where you can't even remember the last time, and usually it's not exactly the same anyway. Like for me, a large part of it usually involves me worrying that I have been poisoned and am going to die. That's not the whole time of the trip though, but it is a recurring thing for me and it doesn't get any more dull each time it happens. The positive thing about it is that it helps me face down that fear and finally say "**** it, so what if I'm gonna die", and usually along the way I realize what is most important to me in my life and end up with a sense of direction.
> 
> Kind of like when you go to the therapist and they tell you something that they've told you before, but it's good to hear because it is a reminder of something that you were starting to forget.
> 
> ...


Ooohhh, OK, I think I get it, as much as I'm going to anyway.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

TheDaffodil said:


> Ooohhh, OK, I think I get it, as much as I'm going to anyway.


Imagine finding god and feeling it, imagine seeing what religion really is. Imagine nirvana. Imagine seeing the other-side of the world, the deepest latent part of your consciousness. Imagine feeling yourself in a way that transcend beauty. Imagine seeing the world as a beautiful place, where you are free. Imagine feeling like you are six again, imagine what childhood was like again.

Once you are out and are back, you want nothing but to experience it again or take those lessons to shape your life and then want to learn more. Unfortunately for myself, I was one that took it too far. I taken 11 different psychedelics and tripped I would guess almost 100 times if not more. But at some point, I couldn't reproduce those feelings, instead the last few times I took psychedelics:

Imagine finding evil. Imagine the feeling of loneliness, realizing no one cares or no one is around to touch you, to talk to you, to feel the most inner part of your soul. Imagine seeing darkness through brightness. Imagine finding the deepest desires left you unfulfilled. Imagine feeling disconnected from everyone, imagine seeing everyone else as evil. Imagine shutting down your mind and imagine feeling that you'll never experience that source of happiness again when you realized you popped your ego once again. Imagine you lost how you once were.

Of course, I guarantee none of you are dumb enough or have the means to go as far as I did.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> One thing I don't get about MDMA users, or any other street drug really, is don't you worry that it could be anything in the pill? be it adultrants like PMA or ketamine or even some toxic chemical as the result of a poorly maintained facility where it was made?
> I don't really see the point in taking something which could be made under poor standards in a questionable facility of which you know nothing about.


PMA would be contained in a pill that would be unusually large because it simply can't be fitted in a pill the size of a normal ecstasy tablet. For an experienced user, that would immediately be a red flag, but not for an inexperienced user, which is why you have these "MDMA deaths." MDMA in itself can't kill you, but PMA will. PMA is quite dangerous, it'll cause your body and brain to overheat rather quickly.

Also, Molly can be cut as well, although not like as likely and certainly not with anything dangerous, simply to take the edge off a bit because it's some powerful ****.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Imagine finding evil. Imagine the feeling of loneliness, realizing no one cares or no one is around to touch you, to talk to you, to feel the most inner part of your soul. Imagine seeing darkness through brightness. Imagine finding the deepest desires left you unfulfilled. Imagine feeling disconnected from everyone, imagine seeing everyone else as evil. Imagine shutting down your mind and imagine feeling that you'll never experience that source of happiness again when you realized you popped your ego once again. Imagine you lost how you once were.


But couldn't that be more of a reflection of where you were at psychologically, rather then the drug itself? I believe in trying to use what you find on a trip, to better yourself. So if I had a trip where I felt those feelings, then I would decide that there must be something wrong with how I'm looking at life, and I must not be happy with the way I'm going through life, so it's time to make some sort of a change in order to become happy again.

I have only tripped around 20 - 30 times though, and only LSD, Mushrooms, Chemical Fumes, and THC (it's possible with THC if you eat enough), so I can't honestly say that I understand what you "saw". I still think that whatever you "see" on a trip is a reflection of what your subconscious wants to see though, and not necessarily the way things are in reality. If you put too much stock into what you "see" on a trip, it's the same as putting too much stock into what you "see" in a dream or nightmare.

Maybe though, do you have trouble deciding which is reality sometimes? I still remember the most intense spray paint trip that I ever had (BTW, don't do this it can kill you and your brain, lungs, etc...) I reached the point where I "experienced God", or more like what I thought it was like looking at reality from God's perspective. What I "saw"/felt was so indescribable and amazing that I still sometimes have trouble dismissing it as just a hallucination. But now that I'm older (I was only 13-14 at the time) I have a better understanding of neurology and psychology and can explain it that way. The same with all of the negative things that I "saw"/felt.


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## contranigma (Jun 24, 2009)

Thomas Paine said:


> That's a good question, and I think it has more to do with the fact that once you start tripping, you are in a state of mind where you aren't thinking about whether it is the same as last time, hopefully you are tripping hard enough to where you can't even remember the last time, and usually it's not exactly the same anyway. Like for me, a large part of it usually involves me worrying that I have been poisoned and am going to die. That's not the whole time of the trip though, but it is a recurring thing for me and it doesn't get any more dull each time it happens. The positive thing about it is that it helps me face down that fear and finally say "**** it, so what if I'm gonna die", and usually along the way I realize what is most important to me in my life and end up with a sense of direction.
> 
> Kind of like when you go to the therapist and they tell you something that they've told you before, but it's good to hear because it is a reminder of something that you were starting to forget.
> 
> ...


That's exactly how I would describe it. For people who have tripped I think this will make perfect sense. Like people have said, hallucinogens may help SA, but they wear off, I think because the memory fades. Trips are kind of like dreams in that they can be very hard to remember and I think the higher dosage the easier it may be to forget exactly what it was you experienced. So to remember the feeling, it is necessary to take the drug again. Also, they're different because they are not physically addictive (at least not LSD or mushrooms).


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## contranigma (Jun 24, 2009)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> Imagine finding god and feeling it, imagine seeing what religion really is. Imagine nirvana. Imagine seeing the other-side of the world, the deepest latent part of your consciousness. Imagine feeling yourself in a way that transcend beauty. Imagine seeing the world as a beautiful place, where you are free. Imagine feeling like you are six again, imagine what childhood was like again.
> 
> Once you are out and are back, you want nothing but to experience it again or take those lessons to shape your life and then want to learn more. Unfortunately for myself, I was one that took it too far. I taken 11 different psychedelics and tripped I would guess almost 100 times if not more. But at some point, I couldn't reproduce those feelings, instead the last few times I took psychedelics:
> 
> ...


This is a very good description of what it can feel like, of course experiencing it for oneself in necessary to understand.

However, like Paine said, I look at it from a chemical, psychological perspective. I don't understand people who think in terms of religion or spirituality, especially regarding a trip. The fact is that your brain is not transcending to a higher level but is actually functioning incorrectly and below normal.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Thomas Paine said:


> But couldn't that be more of a reflection of where you were at psychologically, rather then the drug itself? I believe in trying to use what you find on a trip, to better yourself. So if I had a trip where I felt those feelings, then I would decide that there must be something wrong with how I'm looking at life, and I must not be happy with the way I'm going through life, so it's time to make some sort of a change in order to become happy again.
> 
> I have only tripped around 20 - 30 times though, and only LSD, Mushrooms, Chemical Fumes, and THC (it's possible with THC if you eat enough), so I can't honestly say that I understand what you "saw". I still think that whatever you "see" on a trip is a reflection of what your subconscious wants to see though, and not necessarily the way things are in reality. If you put too much stock into what you "see" on a trip, it's the same as putting too much stock into what you "see" in a dream or nightmare.
> 
> Maybe though, do you have trouble deciding which is reality sometimes? I still remember the most intense spray paint trip that I ever had (BTW, don't do this it can kill you and your brain, lungs, etc...) I reached the point where I "experienced God", or more like what I thought it was like looking at reality from God's perspective. What I "saw"/felt was so indescribable and amazing that I still sometimes have trouble dismissing it as just a hallucination. But now that I'm older (I was only 13-14 at the time) I have a better understanding of neurology and psychology and can explain it that way. The same with all of the negative things that I "saw"/felt.


I don't blame the drug at all because it could bring great benefits and great insight, more of my appetite for drugs. But if you end up tripping from weekend to weekend for a long period of time, it'll impact your psychological state, no doubt about it, the blend between reality and that type of thinking becomes blurred. Drugs are inanimate objects, it's not going to do anything sitting there, until someone takes them. Also repeated experiences has diminishing returns, even after periods of not using them. You become use to the feelings of what psychedelics produce and it's becomes another trip. Imagine a musician who starts playing on the street, the enthusiasm at first just from the joy of playing music, he tries his best to perform to the audience any money that comes would be much appreciated because he's doing it for the music. Fast forward years later, he's still playing, he's old, his voice starts to become cranky, he doesn't try as hard and sounds like ****, and even if someone gives him a dollar, he's like "you cheap *******." That's the danger of psychedelics when you start doing it frequently and often. You even start to see through the perspective that psychedelics start to offer and you don't take it as seriously, it's just becomes another trip. I only done psychedelics since I was 17 to a little bit before I had cancer when I was 23, then I tripped a couple more times and the trips were kinda horrible, especially the last one when I tripped at a Phish show. Maybe I'm truly an *******, but it's the day I stopped believing in all these "the world is beautiful place, world peace" kind of crap. It's kinda ironic actually.

I'm not saying when you had bad trips, it's the end of the world and has life-time impact. It just it has the potential to take you and break your mind further away from where you want you want to be.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Let's see what doctorofmind has to say on the issue, lol he looks like he's on them.

LSD -





and MDMA -


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> Let's see what doctorofmind has to say on the issue, lol he looks like he's on them.
> 
> LSD -
> 
> ...


LMAO. Is he a comedian? And he definitely talks like he's on _something_.


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## Thomas Paine (Mar 29, 2008)

somethinginthewind said:


> The threads that get locked down immediately and the threads that get left open amaze me. :roll


Take it easy on them. Running a dictatorship is hard work.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

MDMA supposedly has significant oxytocin effects, which explains that "bond" you feel with everyone and everything on it. It would definitely be an amazing psychotherapeutic tool, ESPECIALLY for stuff like social anxiety. I'm afraid to tell my psychiatrist and therapist stuff half the time, but MDMA has a way of making you really love yourself and trust others, and I think that would be invaluable in psychotherapy.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

The oxytocin effect is supposedly due to the powerful 5HT1A stimulation,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Releasing_agent

Check out the table, at 72 nM the 5HT release is pretty immense compared to most of the other agents on the chart (atleast the commonly used ones.)


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Hate to resurrect this thread but I had the opportunity to take some again today (haven't taken an illegal drug in quite a while), and I took 1/3rd of a hit. Not enough to get visuals or any of those psychedelic thought patterns...

But I must say I feel *fantastic* and haven't felt this motivated and optimistic and social in a LONG time. Took it with 2mg clonazepam. It's unfortunate that I'm too cautious to drive, or I definitely wouldn't be sitting around here!!


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Thought some of you might find this cartoon amusing, jerry goes to a festival an "does" some psychedelics lol.


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## SuperTodd (Sep 3, 2009)

Recently, when presented with the question of "When were you happiest?" My first thought was span of a couple years when I was using LSD (of course I mean used periodically). I felt kind of bad because it was a drug fueled and not something more traditional but it's totally true.

I eventually had a bad trip and it added the element of worry to subsequent trips so I quit. Until that point I felt great on the drug and even though I used about once a month my mood and anxiety was so much better between doses.

I wish there was a daily medication that could harness the good effects of LSD.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

rocknroll714 said:


> Making good use of my table I see


Ofcourse, your wikipedia articles are always useful


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

At this point I'd be willing to try LSD if I could be confident that it actually was pure LSD and not rat poison. Who the hell knows what's in black market drugs. And it's not like I have a network of friends who know a guy who knows a guy who has a supply.

It should be legal. There is a huge difference between legality & morality in some cases. I suffer an endless living hell. I should damn well be able to decide for myself what drugs I wish to try to help tame my mental demons instead of somebody who's clueless about how much I suffer telling me what I can't try.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

The rat poison thing is a myth. And if you're buying blotter acid, there's no way you could put enough rat poison on it to even _slightly_ poison you. LSD is measured in micrograms, which is why it can fit on a tiny little piece of paper, making it pretty difficult to screw around with.

...unless somebody was REALLY out to kill you and loaded your blotter with botulinum toxin or something :haha perhaps you should be on the schizophrenia boards then

Seriously though, there was a study done where they took about 2,000 different types of blotter off the street and not a single one of them had traces of strychnine (the poison usually referred to in the myth.) And again, there's very little that is going to make you even slightly sick in the microgram range.


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## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> At this point I'd be willing to try LSD if I could be confident that it actually was pure LSD and not rat poison. Who the hell knows what's in black market drugs. And it's not like I have a network of friends who know a guy who knows a guy who has a supply.
> 
> It should be legal. There is a huge difference between legality & morality in some cases. I suffer an endless living hell. I should damn well be able to decide for myself what drugs I wish to try to help tame my mental demons instead of somebody who's clueless about how much I suffer telling me what I can't try.


I think it's worth a try, and actually I do know what you're going through. Last year (and throughout my entire high school career) I was so constricted in myself that simply utter a word took a great deal of effort and agonizing over, and of course when it finally came out (if it did), I would sound completely inept, making me feel awful and undeserving. My feeling worthless led me to seriously contemplate suicide. At one point, I was searching for Oxycontin to mix with alcohol to kill myself. I just couldn't take feeling so isolated.

I began taking Celexa after my freshman year in college and noticed a tiny bit of progress in regards to going out in public without worrying that a stranger will approach me with a question, etc. But then I had a friend sell me a single dose of LSD...very good stuff from what I've heard.

I took it and it opened my mind to another world. It showed me that not everything is what it seems, and that being who you are...how you truly feel without inhibitions...is perfectly acceptable and the only way to live life - i.e., being yourself. If you're constantly pandering to everyone, you're putting yourself through hell and you will hate yourself. But if you realize that the ETHICAL thing to do is honor yourself and how you truly feel (without worrying about what others think), then you've made great progress...LSD helped to realize this, and I'm hopeful it could do the same for you because you seem like a great guy who has suffered long enough. Just realize that YOU are just as good as anyone else, and you ARE special, and DO deserve to give yourself a break.

As for acquiring it, it's actually quite easy if you're determined enough. Simply go to an LSD-friendly-type music festival...Pink Floyed, Reggie, etc. Most of these events will be crawling with acid. And if you stay around enough and look for hippies (nice people), you will be able to score some. As far as the quality of it, LSD is dosed on blotter in micrograms. There are VERY few chemicals active enough in micrograms to seriously harm you. Essentially you either get LSD, or get blotter with no LSD...this happens occasionally, which is why you verify that it's real before buying some.

Or if that would be too much for you, maybe you could find someone online to send you a few doses.

Best of luck!


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

This is kind of fun to watch, lol


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## Ununderstood (Jun 8, 2005)

I know I am bumping a really old topic but I have never tried LSD but I have used drugs that have helped my social anxiety. While I was in college, I took some pills called triple Cs (also known as skittles, or Coridicin Cough & Cold which is the real name) and in one of the trips I went through I heard a voice in my head constantly telling me "it doesn't matter what they think, it really doesnt". I knew that what the voice was telling me referred to my social anxiety and depression. I just kept hearing the voice over and over again, and I kept agreeing with it and smiling knowing it was indeed true. Meanwhile the rest of the people who where also tripping had no idea what I was experiencing. I guess the drug just set me on a perfect state of mind and mood to realize what the voice was telling me was true. 

After the trip went down and I woke up the next day I felt so good, so confident and still with a strong reminder of the trip I had gone through. I lived the rest of my college days with that attitude and I had the best year of my life. Sadly though, the effect of those re-assuring words I heard faded off a few months after I was back home. It was indeed a life changing experience I will never forget.


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

LOL! Try a one way trip to the Bam Bam ward for me. My God nothing could be worse for anxiety. Anyone thinks LSD will help with SA or any kind of anxiety just feel free to try, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Have a fun stay at the county Psych ward for 2 weeks.
Tried it, been there, done that. I would sooner shave my head with a freaking cheese grator while chewing on tin foil before I did LSD again.


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## herb the dolphin (Mar 26, 2010)

LSD is way more likely to trigger SA than almost anything else I can think of...


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

hensley258 said:


> LOL! Try a one way trip to the Bam Bam ward for me. My God nothing could be worse for anxiety. Anyone thinks LSD will help with SA or any kind of anxiety just feel free to try, but don't say I didn't warn you.
> 
> Have a fun stay at the county Psych ward for 2 weeks.
> Tried it, been there, done that. I would sooner shave my head with a freaking cheese grator while chewing on tin foil before I did LSD again.


That's why you gotta candy-flip it. MDMA won't let you get the point where you are totally freaked out. Did you trip with someone, they should have given you some sugar water to calm you down. Or if you had seroquel handy, use it to completely abort the trip and pass out. If you do any drug, you have to know how to minimize the effects when necessary, otherwise you'll end up at the funny farm.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

hensley258 said:


> LOL! Try a one way trip to the Bam Bam ward for me. My God nothing could be worse for anxiety. Anyone thinks LSD will help with SA or any kind of anxiety just feel free to try, but don't say I didn't warn you.
> 
> Have a fun stay at the county Psych ward for 2 weeks.
> Tried it, been there, done that. I would sooner shave my head with a freaking cheese grator while chewing on tin foil before I did LSD again.


You have just taken too much of a too strong psychedelic the first time, brutal torture it was eh! We both did a stupid thing, others can do it the right way.


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

Pity I can't get any LSD for experimentation. Mushrooms might be within reach though..

Crippling social anxiety is MY anti-drug!


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## hensley258 (Apr 24, 2010)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> That's why you gotta candy-flip it. MDMA won't let you get the point where you are totally freaked out. Did you trip with someone, they should have given you some sugar water to calm you down. Or if you had seroquel handy, use it to completely abort the trip and pass out. If you do any drug, you have to know how to minimize the effects when necessary, otherwise you'll end up at the funny farm.


Sugar water? LOL! Dude no sugar water was going to help me. No, I only took one small hit. That's all it takes.

By far the most dirty rat grind your teeth, nasty *** high I have ever had in my life and it was a long one too.

Anyone that can handle LSD doesn't have any type of anxiety dissorder IMO. I will say it again...Nasty, dirty rat garbage high from hell. You will feel **** crawling on your body, you will feel disattached from reality, sound will echo, all kinds of dirty rat ****. It will make your anxiety smash thru the roof at mach 10 such as you have never known before.

Take two and go for it dude. If elevating your anxiety is a cool high for you then maybe that's what you like. No thanks. I will skip on the trip to the Psych ward. I work too hard to stay out of that place then to put myself in by taking a powerful Psychadellic such as LSD or shrooms.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> Anyone that can handle LSD doesn't have any type of anxiety dissorder IMO.


Thats false, many people can handle LSD perfectly fine, you are just like me hensley, LSD was like being tortured by electric wires the whole time, i started screaming on the kitchen floor from the pain lol...

Everyone's differend, your assuming that everyone will respond to those psychs as me and you, for some people they can be of tremendous help.

Sugar water is also nonsense imo, a seroquel would have worked, but offcourse i didnt have around back then, and offcourse i took way to much my first trip.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

hensley258 said:


> Sugar water? LOL! Dude no sugar water was going to help me. No, I only took one small hit. That's all it takes.
> 
> By far the most dirty rat grind your teeth, nasty *** high I have ever had in my life and it was a long one too.
> 
> ...


Spare me the pleasantries, you are talking to a guy who tripped over 100 times in his lifetime. You simply had a bad trip, it happens. Drugs affect people differently And if you known sugar water actually calms down your trip, you wouldn't have ended at the funny farm. It wouldn't go away completely but at least you'd have chilled out.

Also I know you tripped somewhere where you didn't feel comfortable. You should have access to a good environment, good vibrations and good music. Otherwise the chances of having a bad trip increase. LSD is a powerful drug and you didn't take the precautions necessary, it's not going to be a good experience.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Thats false, many people can handle LSD perfectly fine, you are just like me hensley, LSD was like being tortured by electric wires the whole time, i started screaming on the kitchen floor from the pain lol...
> 
> Everyone's differend, your assuming that everyone will respond to those psychs as me and you, for some people they can be of tremendous help.
> 
> Sugar water is also nonsense imo, a seroquel would have worked, but offcourse i didnt have around back then, and offcourse i took way to much my first trip.


Really, why do you think is nonsense? Because it sounds stupid?


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

Hensley258, we get it, you had a bad trip. What makes you so sure the same thing will happen to everybody else?
What is so hard to understand - especially for you, an apparently intelligent individual that's done a lot of research into various drugs - about the concept that different substances affect different individuals in different ways? 

I'm not saying this is some magic cure for everybody, it's pretty serious stuff, demands respect. But you are fearmongering.

About the sugar water - I believe it. Probably a placebo effect but with something as dependent on mindset as a trip, that can work just as well as a tranquilizer. Once upon a time someone brought me down from a truly hellish trip only by telling me "you'll be alright."


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## herb the dolphin (Mar 26, 2010)

I think the OP is in a Fight Club and they're at the stage where they're doing things like putting up billboards that say 'you can use motor oil to fertilize your lawn' so that he can upset the social order of SAS.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> i was also considering trying lsd with my bf but do you feel any anxiety while your on it?


A bad trip is pure horror, the anxiety you have in mind would be heaven compared to it.

Start on a VERY small dose to get an impression of what psychedelics are about, otherwise it can suddenly come over you causing a massive panic attack wich then turns the thread into torture.

If you are carefull you can get pleasant experiences yes.


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## emerge (Sep 8, 2010)

I have a semi-legit fear that tripping too many times (for my body, around 10-15 times ages 18-19) has made my anxiety worse. When I tripped the first couple times (shrooms sometimes and LSD others), I had an amazing time. They've been really "goofy", self-accepting, anxiety-free trips. I drank before taking the substances. I'm thinking that this may have played a role in eliminating anxiety during the trips. All of my later trips, however, have been filled with anxiety (and sometimes paranoia) that I just could not shake even with positive thinking and trying to center myself. Although I consider parts of these trips to be "bad", they were definitely bearable, and I did still learn something from each one. I'm just worried that somehow the anxiety from the trips has carried over into my day to day life.


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