# Phenibut is better than a benzo (imo)



## paravoid (Jun 18, 2012)

Obviously I can't speak for everyone. I just have my own experience to go on, but damn damn damn, Phenibut is freaking awesome!

One thing I hated about Valium was that it made my brain all fuzzy and slow. Phenibut has the opposite effect. While it has all the anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) power of a benzo, it actually works to make my mind sharper! What's more, it gives me energy! It almost seems paradoxical. It's a drug that sedates but simultaneously gives energy! Awesome!

Some words of warning though. Like a benzo, Phenibut builds up a tolerance pretty quick, and also there have been reports of withdrawal symptoms from cold-turkey cessation after chronic use (up to a few months of chronic use -- although I can imagine getting withdrawal symptoms only after a few weeks of daily use).

Also, there is a risk of abuse. For example, yesterday I only planned on taking 1.5g, but found myself doing a total of 4g over the course of the day.

Another plus though is that it's damn cheap. http://www.ebay.com/itm/50G-Phenibu...ltDomain_0&hash=item4cfc5a2422#ht_2665wt_1085(that's 50 strong doses!).


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

phenibut is good stuff. You can buy a kilo of the pure stuff from China for $200, that's almost half the price of your ebay dealer. That supply will last you at least a year.


----------



## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Nice. Regarding tolerance issues, NMDA antagonists are thought to prevent and reverse opioid tolerance. They may do the same for tolerance to GABA agonists like phenibut.


----------



## paravoid (Jun 18, 2012)

alte said:


> Nice. Regarding tolerance issues, NMDA antagonists are thought to prevent and reverse opioid tolerance. They may do the same for tolerance to GABA agonists like phenibut.


Do you mind explaining your reasoning behind that hypothesis?


----------



## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

paravoid said:


> Do you mind explaining your reasoning behind that hypothesis?


NMDA antagonists preventing opioid tolerance is something I read about recently. I also remember reading on this forum, several months ago, about using these medications to prevent other kinds of tolerance. I dont know the exact mechanism by which this occurs but it may be something worth exploring. I don't know of any other way to prevent or reverse tolerance


----------



## paravoid (Jun 18, 2012)

alte said:


> NMDA antagonists preventing opioid tolerance is something I read about recently. I also remember reading on this forum, several months ago, about using these medications to prevent other kinds of tolerance. I dont know the exact mechanism by which this occurs but it may be something worth exploring. I don't know of any other way to prevent or reverse tolerance


An NMDA antagonist would be ketamine..

As somebody with a history of drug abuse (including abusing ketamine), I don't really see that as a viable option for me unfortunately.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

hasn't there been a lot of talk on this forum about using memantine as an NMDA antagonist to reduce/prevent tolerance to amphetamines?

Also, I guess despite having really severe anxiety I'm sort of lucky in that after two years on benzos and phenibut I have built no tolerance to any of the GABA agonists. I still feel the same effect as when I started taking them. I'd prefer to have no mental illness and be on no medication. But at least these drugs continue to help me.


----------



## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks sooo much for this info. It's really helpful. The no. 1 most effective thing for my SA is Valium, so I think I'm deficient in the GABA neurotransmitters, so Phenibut would probably work for me seeing as how it targets the Gaba system too.

I think I'll start on PrimaForce which I see can be ordered from Amazon.

My question is: when your order arrives in the post, are you not worried that customs or the mail service might think you are getting white powder of some other description, or does it arrrive in capsules or a tub? And for other family members picking up post, is it in a brown envelope?

Thanks again, I think it's great that you are grabbing the bull by the horns and being proactive in managing your SA. I've tried for so long to cure it by natural means, but nothing worked til I tried Valium, but obviously i don't want to get addicted. Which leads me to one more question:

Have you tried alternating medications to avoid tolerance?

I'm thinking of maybe doing two days on Valium, 
then two days on Phenibut, 
then two days on a juice fast (apparently fasting and the resulting production of ketones in the body helps prevent epilepsy, and Valium also helps prevent epilepsy, so they must be targeting the same spot in the brain I would theorise - all I know is that I've been doing a one-day juice fast once a week for years and after the first few hours I feel rotten and then really relaxed and non-anxious for next day or two)
and maybe another day with a couple shots of vodka to damp down anxiety - this would fit well with weekend day
I also jog every morning for the endorphins

I know that's an odd mix, but just wondering what you or anyone else who is proactive about managing their condition might think?

And while I'm at it, I have one last question just looking for opinions out there: 

While on things that decrease my anxiety my brain begins working differently and seeking outside interests instead of focusing on my own self-pity, and while I'm engaged in being fascinated by pretty much everything and enjoying conversations, presumably my brain plasticity is using other areas of my brain, so should it not follow that my circuitry should improve in those areas, and then when I'm not taking the Valium or whatever, it should still be stronger? But it doesn't seem to work that way, i'm back to square one with my SA when I'm not taking anything. But I haven't been taking Valium that long, just wondering seeing as you have been taking benzos/phenibut for two years do you think your SA has improved even w/o them, if your brain is perhaps strengthening other pathways while using them?


----------



## Foh_Teej (May 5, 2004)

Phenibut makes me horribly nauseous and dizzy. Almost like a mega THC high that is hard to describe. It seemingly does nothing for hours then it hits me. It's almost like nodding off every 3-5 seconds or how one is when delirium sets in when you stay up for like 30 hours. Maybe fading in and out is more accurate way to say it. It's very unpleasent to say the least. Its done this everytime I take a larger dose... and by larger I mean 1/2 tsp or about 1g. I realize some go upwards of 4g. Everytime I take it with piracetam so maybe that has something to do with it. I know it isn't the piracetam as I take that about everyday in 1-2g doses and can barely tell it does anything. Anyone else have similar experiences?


----------



## paravoid (Jun 18, 2012)

Hamster12 said:


> I think I'll start on PrimaForce which I see can be ordered from Amazon.


I will properly respond to your post later, but I just wanted to quickly say some things..

I personally wouldn't buy Primaforce as I've not heard good things about them.

Don't worry about customs. You're buying something that is legal, and you cannot be prosecuted for ordering it.


----------



## paravoid (Jun 18, 2012)

As well, if you want convenient pills,  (500mg of phenibut in each pill)


----------



## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Thank you very much i've ordered some of that.  I'll report back on whether it does anything for me.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

*Note; several links to commercial websites have been removed from this thread as per the guidelines.*


----------



## tornadobill (Dec 14, 2011)

Phenibut is hard on my stomach.I prefer low dose baclofen which is very similar to phenibut,minus the nausea.Too much baclofen gives me insomnia,closed eyed visuals and some nausea.I overdosed a couple times on baclofen and had acid like effect,hallucinations,mixed euphoria/paranoia for 6 hours.High dose baclofen is unpleasant mostly and reminds me of some 2c-xx.But low dose baclofen is wonderful and can take without tolerence/withdrawals.Helps SA with low dose klonopin.


----------



## Black Swan (Jun 22, 2012)

Try eating a meal before taking either phenibut or piracetam. It might prevent nausea... Report back with results so we can see if I'm right!

I am trying phenibut now, and it's working pretty well :yes so we'll see how it goes. I'm going to try 3 days on and 3 days off to combat the tolerance.

I wouldn't recommend 2 days phenibut + 2 days valium...only because they do the same thing, don't they? They interact with GABA. I would suppose therefore that you are simply building tolerance for 4 days.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

^I believe phenibut is a Gaba-b agonist whereas benzos act on both gaba-a and b. But yeah, I'm pretty sure there is a cross-tolerance between benzos and phenibut. I know people who have gone to rehab for phenibut and get weened off using valium.


----------



## mesmer (Jun 25, 2012)

I would be very careful with the phenibut. Tolerance seems to develop very rapidly and emerging horror stories of withdrawal similar to GHB.


----------



## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks.  I'm going through the threads about Baclofen, good reports generally. It does sound safer than Phenibut. But it seems the jury's still out on whether it can be used daily long-term. It'd be great if there was something like Valium that could be taken every day, Valium works so well for my SA but only lasts a few hours and I'm afraid to take it more than a couple of times a week because I don't want my non-medicated state of anxiety to get worse (I can go out and function OK w/o meds but I'm in a constant state of anxiety) so I don't want to mess with my Gaba receptors (and my doc doesn't give me enough to take it every day anyway). I think Baclofen might be worth a trial run though.

I realised after my post that it's probably not a good idea to do Phenibut and Valium one after the other, but thanks for pointing out the Gaba-a and Gaba-b bit. I'll leave a few days break in between taking it and the Valium and see how I get on. I'll update after a few days on Phenibut.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

I have purchased some of this to give it a try. Will let people know how I got on.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

Wow. 1000 mg of Phenibut and I felt comfortable in my own skin for the first time in years.

I was worried it wasn't working when I first took it. About anhour and a half later when I went to get my hair cut I noticed I was completely chilled out. Was chatting away to the barber like she was my best friend. No blushing at all. I even thought about blushing and it didn't happen. All this in a room that had the heat up high. 

Very very pleased. Going to leave it now until the wedding I'm going to next week. I'll take some more then.


----------



## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jollygoggles said:


> Wow. 1 mg of Phenibut and I felt comfortable in my own skin for the first time in years.
> 
> I was worried it wasn't working when I first took it. About anhour and a half later when I went to get my hair cut I noticed I was completely chilled out. Was chatting away to the barber like she was my best friend. No blushing at all. I even thought about blushing and it didn't happen. All this in a room that had the heat up high.
> 
> Very very pleased. Going to leave it now until the wedding I'm going to next week. I'll take some more then.


That sounds awesome 
Do you usually have a problem with the talking part ? Or is it mainly blushing ?


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

istayhome said:


> ^I believe phenibut is a Gaba-b agonist whereas benzos act on both gaba-a and b. But yeah, I'm pretty sure there is a cross-tolerance between benzos and phenibut. I know people who have gone to rehab for phenibut and get weened off using valium.


Well in higher doses it acts on gaba-a as well. Although I don't really have any source other than wiki. But yah I know people who got severely addicted to it, constantly taking it at about 6grams + for years. I'd say benzos would be the cheaper solution if it's insured.

I tried it before just made me sick. It's not available in Canada, although you can buy it online. Customs could freeze it though. The FDA here is a lot more strict. I recall a time when I was buying Andro products from the states as they were banned in Canada. Although eventually they got banned in the states too. I'm sure phenibut will follow in time which will suck for those who are addicted.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

blakeyz said:


> That sounds awesome
> Do you usually have a problem with the talking part ? Or is it mainly blushing ?


The blushing inhibits my ability to chat/be myself. My fear of blushing in social situations is what makes me anxious and it's a bit of a vicious cycle. I always blush because I worry so much about it. When I don't worry I don't blush.

Phenibut is the first thing that disconnected the worried thoughts cycle and allowed me to be myself in years.


----------



## scribe (Mar 8, 2011)

Jollygoggles said:


> The blushing inhibits my ability to chat/be myself. My fear of blushing in social situations is what makes me anxious and it's a bit of a vicious cycle. I always blush because I worry so much about it. When I don't worry I don't blush.
> 
> Phenibut is the first thing that disconnected the worried thoughts cycle and allowed me to be myself in years.


I'm the same way with blushing. My complete fear of it makes it worse. Think I'm gonna give this phenibut stuff a try.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

Is it normal to be feeling a bit more confident the day after taking Phenibut? I don't feel as relaxed or anything but I feel a bit more ballsy. It's weird.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jollygoggles said:


> Wow. 1 mg of Phenibut and I felt comfortable in my own skin for the first time in years.
> 
> I was worried it wasn't working when I first took it. About anhour and a half later when I went to get my hair cut I noticed I was completely chilled out. Was chatting away to the barber like she was my best friend. No blushing at all. I even thought about blushing and it didn't happen. All this in a room that had the heat up high.
> 
> Very very pleased. Going to leave it now until the wedding I'm going to next week. I'll take some more then.


1mg? You mean 1 gram right?


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

I do indeed, sir.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

Regular Phenibut users, how do you cycle this stuff?
I was thinking once a week. Can it be taken more often without affecting the effect?


----------



## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

This is my third day on Phenibut (Relax All) and it is indeed awesome . Thanks Parovoid for the recommendation.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I popped half a zopiclone today before going shopping. Man I felt good and social. Better than Xanax and phenibut in my opinion.


----------



## scribe (Mar 8, 2011)

Does anyone else get extremely tired after using phenibut? I seem to feel mellow for the first few hours then I get so sleepy if I close my eyes I can just fall asleep in a few seconds.


----------



## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

I didn't get tired the first few times I used it. I took a break for a while and took one today and an hour later i feel tired suddenly. I don't think as clearly on Phenibut as I do on Valium. Does anyone else get restless legs at night and rapid heartbeat? I only get that when I take Phenibut, but it could be the brand as it has all kinds of stuff mixed in like Valerian and Ashwaghanda etc.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Jollygoggles said:


> Wow. 1000 mg of Phenibut and I felt comfortable in my own skin for the first time in years.
> 
> I was worried it wasn't working when I first took it. About anhour and a half later when I went to get my hair cut I noticed I was completely chilled out. Was chatting away to the barber like she was my best friend. No blushing at all. I even thought about blushing and it didn't happen. All this in a room that had the heat up high.
> 
> Very very pleased. Going to leave it now until the wedding I'm going to next week. I'll take some more then.


Propranolol is good for stopping blushing. I've been on 160mg Propranolol SR (SR meaning Sustained Release, so it lasts all day) for about 6 months and it's really helped.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Jollygoggles said:


> Is it normal to be feeling a bit more confident the day after taking Phenibut? I don't feel as relaxed or anything but I feel a bit more ballsy. It's weird.


Yeah there does seem to be a slight residual effect that lasts in to the next day. I've noticed it as well.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Jollygoggles said:


> Regular Phenibut users, how do you cycle this stuff?
> I was thinking once a week. Can it be taken more often without affecting the effect?


I've been taking it every week for a couple of years now. Strictly 2g per day only 2 days a week.

I've tried taking it multiple days and ended up feeling awful.

You might be interested in Pregabalin. I take 600mg (3x 200mg) daily and it's like Phenibut lite. Definitely not as good but better than nothing for the off days.


----------



## eddiehorse (Oct 29, 2012)

does anyone know if alternating between valerian root and phenibut can develop cross tolerance?


----------



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I see nausea has been mentioned above. I learned all about that nifty phenibut effect a week ago when I decorated the hallway with my vomit.:mum

Not my idea of fun. It now stands with alcohol as being one of the only two drugs that have ever made me vomit. Other than the nausea, I can't detect any other obvious effect. Unimpressed to say the least.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> I see nausea has been mentioned above. I learned all about that nifty phenibut effect a week ago when I decorated the hallway with my vomit.:mum
> 
> Not my idea of fun. It now stands with alcohol as being one of the only two drugs that have ever made me vomit. Other than the nausea, I can't detect any other obvious effect. Unimpressed to say the least.


Yeah it just doesn't work for some people.


----------



## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

eddiehorse said:


> does anyone know if alternating between valerian root and phenibut can develop cross *tolerance*


I think you're more concerned with dependence than tolerance. yes one can become cross dependent on the two.


----------

