# Trazadone,Lunesta,Ambien for sleep?



## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

I have a history of insomnia.Recently it has been worse ie. waking up in the middle of the night;not being able to get back to sleep and waking after 4-5 hrs. of sleep. I have been excercising and avoiding stimulants,like coffee, after noon. I have used Trazadone 25-100mg in the past. Usually at a dose of 25-50mg. I do have a hangover effect at 50mg and haven't used it recently. I have used Ambien 10mg recently and has helped somewhat. I usually wake up after about two hrs. but it does help overall. I have never tried Lunesta.

Fom what I've read they all seem to work on GABA to certain degrees and Lunesta and Ambien have the potential for tolerance. They seem to have some benzo. qualities. I'm trying to find out which will provide the "cleanest" sleep for a sleep aide wihout the hangover and the least amount of tolerance. I know both Lunesta and Ambien have extended release forms.

What has been the most effective for you? Excluding alcohol and opiates. Basically a med. my pdoc will prescibe. I have also used over the counter meds like Diphenhydramine and doxylamine succinate which really seemed to knock me out


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Both ambien and lunesta are GABA agonists and yes have some potential for tolerance. Ambien has a short half life of approx 2 hours and so is probably most suitable for those who only suffer from pre sleep onset insomnia (but not sleep maintenance) which is probly why you wake up after that amount of time. Lunesta has a longer half life of about 7 hours and so is probably more preferable than ambien for overall insomnia. 

As for Trazadone, it works in a different way all together and is not thought to be addictive. 

As for diphenhydramine, doxylamine succinate and promethazine these make you sleepy primarily through their antihistamine action and are also not addictive however they may cause next day hangover effects. Certain antidepressants such as mirtazapine, mianserin and most of the tricyclics as well as certain atypical antipsychotics used at low doses such as seroquel will also make you sleepy due to their antihistamine effects and so will most likely have a similair effect on sleep as diphenhydramine etc.


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## Catlover4100 (Feb 10, 2009)

I have tried all three. I'm not intimately familiar with their chemical makeup, but I can share my experience. I have also been a chronic insomniac for the last nine years!

I used trazadone for many years in increasing doses. I believe it is actually an antidepressant that has fatigue and drowsiness as side-effects, so it is often prescribed as a low-risk sleep aid. I would have to take trazadone about three or four hours before I actually wanted to go to sleep, and even in high doses, it did virtually nothing. The trazadone also made me extremely drowsy the next day.

I took 10mg Ambien for about 5 or 6 years? It helped me get to sleep, but more and more often I would wake up during the night and not be able to get back to sleep. The side-effects with Ambien are (for me, at least) much more pronounced when you first start taking it, and as you build tolerance they wear off. When I started Ambien, I would get sort of high. The first night I was crying and my mom made me a bowl of soup in the middle of the night, apparently, but I don't remember any of this. Then one night I decided I wanted to move to China I would start making lists and spelling things wrong and coming up with stupid ideas - kind of weird, but not a particularly annoying side-effect. I also took Ambien CR 12.5mg for awhile, which helped me stay asleep longer, but my insurance decided not to pay for it, so I only took that for about a year.

I have recently started Lunesta, about two months ago or so after I had built up too much of a tolerance to Ambien. Lunesta doesn't have such a strong sedative effect, so it doesn't really affect my mood or thinking, and I haven't experienced any side effects so far. As far as getting to sleep, Lunesta works better as part of a well-rounded approach; ie, I take the Lunesta about 20-30 minutes before I want to go to sleep, then I meditate, and make sure all sources of light in my bedroom are blocked out as much as possible. It's not the kind of med that will just knock you out if you're not trying to sleep. I still wake up during the night, but not as often, and it's easier to get back to sleep.

Drugs work differently on everyone, but my overall rating:

Trazadone - 1 star
Ambien - 3.5 stars
Lunesta - 4.5 stars

Hope that was somewhat helpful


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Like your screen name Cat and Sylvia Plath's work. Crazy method she used to kill herself though. I would assume the ambien cr/xr or lunesta cr/xr would solve my waking up after two hrs .Never experienced any of the crazy ambien stories I've heard so much about. I would just wake up after two hrs. with a ravenous appetite.Sad to say there's actually an Ambien cookbook!!My pdoc. seems to prefer ambien over lunesta for some reason.I'll have to ask him about that.jim_morrison your I appreciate your knowledge on meds and psychophamacology.Your posts help alot!


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## Catlover4100 (Feb 10, 2009)

metamorphosis said:


> Like your screen name Cat and Sylvia Plath's work. Crazy method she used to kill herself though. I would assume the ambien cr/xr or lunesta cr/xr would solve my waking up after two hrs .Never experienced any of the crazy ambien stories I've heard so much about. I would just wake up after two hrs. with a ravenous appetite.Sad to say there's actually an Ambien cookbook!!My pdoc. seems to prefer ambien over lunesta for some reason.I'll have to ask him about that.jim_morrison your I appreciate your knowledge on meds and psychophamacology.Your posts help alot!


An Ambien cookbook!? wow, and I thought I had heard of everything...


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Catlover4100 said:


> An Ambien cookbook!? wow, and I thought I had heard of everything...


I'm pretty sure it's not on par with The New Making Of A Cook but shelved right next to the excellent 101 Ways To Make Ramen


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Catlover4100 said:


> An Ambien cookbook!? wow, and I thought I had heard of everything...


See now if they ever made a mirtazapine cookbook I would totally understand!


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Haven't tried Ambien because it's not available here, but I've been using zopiclone, which is pretty much Lunesta, for the better part of a year now.

Trazodone gave me terrible hangovers and I just felt odd while sitting in bed. I didn't even find it effective. I believe 50mg is the dose NORMALLY used for sleep though. Trazodone partially metabolizes to a piperazine stimulant, and at higher doses (like normally used as an antidepressant), it's supposedly less effective at inducing sleep.

Zopiclone has been pretty amazing though. Where I used to stay awake for hours and hours, I usually nod off within 5 minutes of getting into bed. It feels comfortable, unlike all the non-GABA sedative/hypnotics, and also makes me wake up feeling better than having taken nothing at all, let alone avoiding the hangover that those other drugs give me.

As for a mirtazapine cookbook... I think the reason it doesn't exist is because when you're on that stuff, your stomach really doesn't feel like waiting for food to cook :lol


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

Lunesta (zopiclone) works on all GABA receptors where ambien only works on one. Lunesta has a milder effect that feels less like a benzo and may not help as much if your problem is more falling asleep than staying asleep. It does work for longer if your problem is staying asleep. Neither one will be effective for more than a month if taken every night. They are only good for occasional use or mixed with other gaba enhancing medications which few doctors will let you do. Unless of course you resort to alcohol without telling anyone.

If you want long term insomnia treatment you have to go with off label use which can be harder to convince a doctor. Seroquel would be the ultimate. At low doses it's basically a really strong antihistamine and few that have been prescribed it can actually get to the recommended dose of 200mg. Most can't take more than 100mg without being out cold. However the side effect rate is quite high (if you think you need a cookbook for ambien try seroquel) and my doctor recently took me off of it. Which is doing wonderful things for my sleep. :/ Since it is used for some cases of depression and anxiety it is possible to get your hands on it even from more conservative doctors so long as they aren't the kind to really worry about side effects. I wouldn't suggest it as the first thing to try for anything though.

Neurontin works for mild insomnia and I know a few using it for anxiety. The effects are more mild than anything mentioned and you probably won't feel it working. You'll just fall asleep easier and wake up less or you won't. Similar to other medications that impact gaba but different enough it has a much lower side effect rate and tends to take awhile for tolerance to build. It will not work for everyone and it will not work for severe insomnia by itself. I also found that the upper limit of effective dosage for insomnia runs out pretty quickly. Over 600mg does absolutely nothing for me except make a good counteract to headaches caused by lack of sleep or overuse of ambien. Neurontin used to be hard to get because most doctors hadn't heard of it except for seizures and certain types of pain. It's acceptable off label uses seem to have spread to include bipolar and anxiety disorders as well as being more common on insomnia forums so it might be worth asking. Probably the safest medication that messes with brain chemistry I've had a doctor even mention.

Of course if you are going to try something mild like neurontin you might as well try some otc stuff first if you have the cash. Melatonin is cheap but limited especially if your body is producing melatonin fine. Enzymatic therapy makes 2 formulas I've tried that work well but both are expensive for constant use and tolerance is a problem unless you switch between them. One is Fatigued to Fantastic Revitalizing Sleep Formula. The pills not their weird spray that is pretty much alcohol. I have no idea why that says safe for children. It tastes like I just sprayed grain alcohol in my mouth. The other is Sleep Tonight. It's aimed at reducing stress hormones and specifically cortisol. Alot of people with insomnia that has no obvious cause have found their cortisol levels spike at odd times of the night interfering with sleep. They have a few others designed for specific problems causing sleep loss but I haven't tried them.

Yay another of my really long insomnia posts. 10years of dealing with a problem that has no solution tends to do that. :|


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

^^^^
melatonin is highly recommended. not any tolerance and also gives a natural feeling of sleepiness. Also easily available while benzos are controlled materials.


several years ago, i used to be awake in my bed for hours or sometimes until morning and it was very hard for me to get up before 2:00pm while i was a university student. together with a severe SAD it really f...ed my life. i usually missed my classes in mornings.
after university i found meds. the main treatment was something to regulate my sleep and to treat its background which SSRIs+benzos+... did it for me. now i don't need any sleep pills most of times. however i sometimes take melatonin for sleep.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I've been taking zopiclone (very similar to lunesta), for about 8 months after having REALLY chronic and severe insomnia. While I was on a TCA I was able to cut it in half, but after getting off that drug, I had to go back to the initial dose.

And to this day it's still just as effective as it was the first day I started taking them. More effective, even, which is strain. Where I'd often go to bed at like 3:00am and lie awake in bed until 9:00am, I fall asleep these days normally within 5 minutes, which is quite a bit quicker than even your average non-insomniac. And if I'm for some reason just utterly exhausted (missed a night of sleep), I can skip my pill. Usually having skipped the pill the day beforehand too because I didn't go to bed. And I suffer no withdrawal symptoms after skipping two nights of this rather short-lived drug, which surprised me. 

But the point is, your assertion that "Neither one will be effective for more than a month if taken every night", in my experience, couldn't be more incorrect. Perhaps it's true for some people, but I'm strict about not escalating doses (there's more to a sleeping pill than just sedation, and while tolerance builds to the sedation rapidly, its anxiolytic and hypnotic effects are hugely useful and studies have shown they can remain stable for quite a long time.) I imagine there are probably a bunch of other people who would be able to use zopiclone, day in and day out, on a long-term basis.

I tried seroquel. It felt like benadryl. And mirtazapine. And Zyprexa. Because their mechanism is mostly to sedate you through antihistaminergic effects, which have me feeling so strange and awful that it makes it impossible for me sleep any sooner, and if I do eventually fall asleep hours later, when I wake up, I feel completely hungover and groggy. Terrible stuff. Plus seroquel carries with it well-known risks of metabolic disorders (ie diabetes), as well as the usual movement disorders from pretty much antipsychotic. I think it's an absolutely terrible choice for someone to be taking antipsychotics for sleep... they can cause permanent, very drastic side effects.


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

In majority of people with constant severe insomnia and not just occasional insomnia or one of the more mild side effects of their anxiety lunesta rarely works long. It builds tolerance a bit slower than ambien in most cases and it wasn't approved for long term use until recently. The insomnia forums can repeat that over and over again. When I started taking it a few years ago my doctor was not happy because it wasn't approved for longer than a few weeks. A handful of people might find longer effects. Most likely those people would find benefits from just taking gaba supplements as well. Most will probably need to make other lifestyle changes to continue to fall asleep with lunesta and possibly to fall asleep in the first place since it does not have as strong of initial effect as other meds.

I did say I don't suggest seroquel. It is the strongest thing you can get for sleep though. It will knock you out and keep you asleep for a long period of time without interrupting deeper sleep as much as most antipsychotics. Odds are very low you won't have side effects though. It depends if sleep is worth it to you and if your insomnia is too resistent to other meds and treatments. Which if you don't sleep for an extended period of time anything is pretty much worth it to you. Death is better than no sleep by the time you get to day 5 with none of it or fail to get enough sleep every night for months at a time. Long term lack of sleep causes permanent drastic side effects to the point of brain damage and an inability to function for life.


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## christine07 (Jan 16, 2010)

Ambien is very effective to me. This medication has been a miracle for me. I now wake up after 8 hours feeling refreshed with lots of energy. I can purchase ambient at MEDSHEAVEN.COM with NO PRESCRIPTION.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

metamorphosis said:


> I have also used over the counter meds like Diphenhydramine and doxylamine succinate which really seemed to knock me out


I gather they must have unwanted hangover effects the next day or something for you?:stu If not, just use them. Cheap, safe, and no doc needed. And they'll treat allergies too.


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