# How hard was it for you to get Xanax



## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

My friend used to buy Xanax illegally for panic attacks, but when her source ran dry, she decided to live legal and see a doctor. 

First, they put here on an anti-depressant.

She said it toned down her anxiety but did not eliminate the panic attacks.

Second, they added a beta blocker to the antidepressant. This did nothing.

Third, they put her on Buspar. Again, did not stop the panic attacks.

FINALLY, after four visits to the doctor and a substantial amount of money later, she was given Xanax to use when needed.

This just shows that while some doctors (mine) hand 'em out like candy, others are paranoid and possibly more worried about saving their own butts than helping a patient - because let's face it, after the antidepressant didn't eliminate the panic attacks, nothing else but a benzo was going to.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I feel a rant coming on. It's been a while since I've done one of my benzo rants in which I call the DEA a criminal organization guilty of crimes against humanity. The closest I've come to such a rant was last week when somebody asked if the DEA should be fired and my reply was "yes, preferably by a firing squad."

I'm absolutely disgusted by the way medications are dispensed in our nation. Patients in desperate need of treatment have to jump through every f'ing hoop to get anything that might potentially be abused by some moron. I'm sick and tired of having to live in a moron-proofed world. New parents will baby proof their home and it seems government similarly feels an uncontrollable need to junkie-proof the nation.

The hell with people who legitimately need controlled substance to treat serious ailments. Let them mentally and/or physically suffer is the attitude taken by the DEA. Their only job is to make sure junkies don't get at drugs. They'll work tirelessly to prevent junkies from getting Oxy, even if those efforts also make it difficult for chronic pain patients to get the OxyContin they need. The DEA will tell us all about how they're saving junkies from themselves. Somehow a junkie's life is more important than the life of chronic pain patients who in some cases decide that suicide is preferable to the pain they must suffer due to inadequate treatment because their doctors are too afraid to write scripts for the astronomical amounts of drugs they actually need since they have government looking over their shoulder at all time to second guess their medical judgment and to yank their license to practice medicine should they prescribe what the government deems "too much".

I get to suffer endlessly with anxiety because benzos don't get the job done for me, but we're supposed to pretend that there exist no other anti-anxiety drug classes. We're supposed to pretend that anti-anxiety drugs didn't exist till the into of benzos in 1960s. Am I supposed to be happy that I can't legally obtain any drug that I wish to try to combat my anxiety? Apparently, I'm not smart enough to make my own choices about my own body and my own medical treatment. After all, I'm only 36 -- an adult twice over!


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## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

I freaking agree!!!!!!


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## MissMay1977 (Oct 25, 2008)

It is the same when you are bi polar and need a med. You have to go through 500 different meds that you know will not work before they put you on one that might work. It is bs. It is a big money making scam!


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

I disagree.

Let me ask you this. Did your friend ever try antidepps before she tried xanax? Because the fact is many people's anxiety respond very well to antidepps, and it is a much safer alternative; not as addictive, no risk of overdose. She needed to try antidepps at least once to get an idea of what medication is most suited for her. So it didn't work. Ok but her case can't be generalised to most people. 

So Drs are cautious. They prescribe the safest drugs first, then when they don't work they prescribe less safe drugs later. it doesn't make sence to go straight to the most dangerous drugs first. It's common sense.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> I feel a rant coming on. It's been a while since I've done one of my benzo rants in which I call the DEA a criminal organization guilty of crimes against humanity. The closest I've come to such a rant was last week when somebody asked if the DEA should be fired and my reply was "yes, preferably by a firing squad."
> 
> I'm absolutely disgusted by the way medications are dispensed in our nation. Patients in desperate need of treatment have to jump through every f'ing hoop to get anything that might potentially be abused by some moron. I'm sick and tired of having to live in a moron-proofed world. New parents will baby proof their home and it seems government similarly feels an uncontrollable need to junkie-proof the nation.
> 
> ...


Post of the year. :clap



MissMay1977 said:


> It is the same when you are bi polar and need a med. You have to go through 500 different meds that you know will not work before they put you on one that might work. It is bs. It is a big money making scam!


Is that really the case with bipolar meds? I thought they were easy to obtain, especially compared to drugs used to treat other disorders, but then again I'm not bipolar. What hoops did you have to jump through before you finally were able to get the right medication prescribed?



LaRibbon said:


> So Drs are cautious. They prescribe the safest drugs first, then when they don't work they prescribe less safe drugs later. it doesn't make sence to go straight to the most dangerous drugs first. It's common sense.


I agree, this is of course the best way to go. However, once the first-line treatments have failed, most GPs and even Pdocs will REFUSE to prescribe a drug off-label that will successfully treat the patient's disorder. Why? Because "omg omg drug addikts could abuze this u kno!". Absolutely ridiculous, unjust, and malicious! I recommend taking a look at UltraShy's post, he's been unable to get a job for many YEARS because his psychiatrist won't prescribe him the drugs he needs just to live his life. I've also tried tons of medications but my psychiatrist would rather see me live with my mom and be unable to attend college than prescribe a drug that COULD be abused. Like UltraShy said: "Somehow a junkie's life is more important than the life of chronic pain patients who in some cases decide that suicide is preferable to the pain they must suffer due to inadequate treatment..."


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Ya know, funnily enough the easiest way to get an effective anxiety/depression med is to become a junkie, but take anti-tolerance drugs so you can pretend you have a massive tolerance and get a nice big dose of bupe or methadone. Or, you could even just say you've been doing heroin when you haven't. Not that I'd condone such actions...

Nah, OF COURSE I ****ING CONDONE IT, GO FOR IT! If pleasure-seeking addicts are allowed to have maintenance doses, we SA patients sure as **** deserve some.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Ya know, funnily enough the easiest way to get an effective anxiety/depression med is to become a junkie, but take anti-tolerance drugs so you can pretend you have a massive tolerance and get a nice big dose of bupe or methadone. Or, you could even just say you've been doing heroin when you haven't. Not that I'd condone such actions...
> 
> *Nah, OF COURSE I ****ING CONDONE IT, GO FOR IT! If pleasure-seeking addicts are allowed to have maintenance doses, we SA patients sure as **** deserve some.*


Hell yeah! 

**** YOU DEA :wife


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

LaRibbon said:


> So Drs are cautious. They prescribe the safest drugs first, then when they don't work they prescribe less safe drugs later. it doesn't make sence to go straight to the most dangerous drugs first. It's common sense.


Beznos are very safe drugs, it's practically impossible to have a fatal overdose on them. A few benzo pills a month doesn't pose dependence potential either. If we were talking about large amounts of adderall where there is a real abuse potential or an maoi I might agree, don't forget that ssri's are dependence forming too.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

My doctor gave me benzos because 1) I had/have panic attacks, 2) I was over 18, and 3) I've taken a ton of SSRIs in the past five or six years with little effect on anxiety.


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## Diya (Aug 28, 2008)

Xanax was the first thing prescribed for me so it was pretty easy, but I decided to quit it because it messed up my memory big time. I guess where I live is easier to get benzo's than in the U.S.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Diya said:


> I guess where I live is easier to get benzo's than in the U.S.


That's probably because they feel bad for you that MAOIs aren't available there. :|


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## Omnium11 (Feb 11, 2009)

Well I'm going into the doctors here shortly. I'm trying to get xanax as well. I'm wondering if I should even bother, I have drug abuse history and don't want to jump through all the hoops of trying crappy anti-depressants that don't do anything. I don't want any drug except a benzo, no buspar no paxil etc. I only want like a 1 week - 1 month supply as well. Just to do the job interview and first couple days of work. Maybe I should just say screw it and force myself to do an interview with out it as an anxious, nervous mess. Horrible first impression but wth can you do.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Diya said:


> I guess where I live is easier to get benzo's than in the U.S.


What nation do you live in?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Omnium11 said:


> Well I'm going into the doctors here shortly. I'm trying to get xanax as well. I'm wondering if I should even bother, I have drug abuse history and don't want to jump through all the hoops of trying crappy anti-depressants that don't do anything. I don't want any drug except a benzo, no buspar no paxil etc. I only want like a 1 week - 1 month supply as well. Just to do the job interview and first couple days of work. Maybe I should just say screw it and force myself to do an interview with out it as an anxious, nervous mess. Horrible first impression but wth can you do.


The first step would be *not telling your doctor that you have a history of drug abuse!*. He can't read your mind, unless you fail badly at lying.

You can also accept a script for an antidepressant, and then mention how you might need a benzo to help with the initial anxiogenic/worsening of depression that usually occurs within the first 1 or 2 weeks of starting treatment. If he's anti benzo, this won't change his mind, but at least you might have a chance this way. If it works then you don't even have to take the crummy SSRI and use only the benzos.


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## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

Omnium11 said:


> Well I'm going into the doctors here shortly. I'm trying to get xanax as well. I'm wondering if I should even bother, I have drug abuse history and don't want to jump through all the hoops of trying crappy anti-depressants that don't do anything. I don't want any drug except a benzo, no buspar no paxil etc. I only want like a 1 week - 1 month supply as well. Just to do the job interview and first couple days of work. Maybe I should just say screw it and force myself to do an interview with out it as an anxious, nervous mess. Horrible first impression but wth can you do.


Have you tried any of the SSRI's for anxiety? I find that Celexa works quite well for my moderately severe social anxiety. Before taking it, I was biased towards thinking it would not work because most people on here have disparaged them...but within a couple weeks, I definitely could tell a difference in social situations.

Regarding why you want Xanax and the amount you want, you sound like the perfect candidate! Unfortunately, if you're not having "panic attacks", your doctor will surely disagree. Fortunately, you can lie - I'm telling you this because you seem like you want them for legitimate purposes and won't abuse them.

Here's what you do.

Go to doctor for panic attacks...*do NOT whatsoever admit to a history of drug abuse*. He/she will likely put you on an antidepressant. On your follow up appointment, say that the SSRI has taken an edge off the anxiety but you're still having frequent panic attacks. He/she might try something else like a beta blocker (blood pressure medicine), Buspar, or just increasing your SSRI dosage (or maybe even just giving you some Xanax. Trial and error. You just have to keep annoying your doctor until all other opinions are exhaused and he has no other choice but to prescribe you a benzo and send you on your merry little way.

As you see, it may take some time. But if you're really intend on getting them, it can be done.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

LaRibbon said:


> [antidepressants are] a much safer alternative; not as addictive, *no risk of overdose*.


Benzos have virtually no OD risk, so I wouldn't consider that a meaningful reason. That's why they became wildly popular when introduced, first with Librium in 1960 and soon followed by Valium in 1963. At the time they were hailed as a breakthrough since a fatal benzo OD is all but impossible. Death by Valium would require 8 grams+, or 800 of the largest dose tablets. Doesn't seem at all likely that one is going to have several hundred pills just laying around, and even more unlikely that taking so many could be an accident.

Benzos replaced drugs that actually had a real potential of causing death -- either intentional or accidental, especially when mixed with alcohol. Barbiturates were used before benzos. Today fast acting barbs like Seconal & Nembutal are still legal C-II drugs that could in theory be prescribed, but I doubt you'll find any doctor or pharmacist under the age of ancient who's ever seen a script for them (except in places where euthanasia is legally permitted). Fast-acting barbs are so highly toxic in OD that they're what's used for euthanasia. Marilyn Monroe would probably be the most famous example of someone who died by barb OD -- Nembutal in her case.



> So Drs are cautious. They prescribe the safest drugs first, then when they don't work they prescribe less safe drugs later. it doesn't make sence to go straight to the most dangerous drugs first. It's common sense.


In relative terms benzos are not that dangerous. I've in the past described doctors as being the kind of morons who'd try to cut down a tree with a butter knife. Won't work, but nobody is going to get hurt by a butter knife. Now a logger would simply get out a chainsaw and have that tree down real fast. A chainsaw is quite a dangerous tool in relative terms but it gets the job done quickly & efficiently. The doctor could spend an entire year (at $250 an hour) trying one ineffective method after another trying to deal with that tree, perhaps even having a therapist talk to the tree to see if it might be willing to fall over on its own.:lol


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Here in the UK, you are extremely unlikely to get a maintenance dose of benzo (quite rightly IMO), but you may easily get some co-prescribed with an SSRI (or moclobemide nowadays, if you want to retain a working penis/vagina) for the initial 2-4 weeks of anxiety. I dunno what it's like in the rest of the world, but I'd guess most psychiatrists/doctors will write a small script for benzos if you tell them a specific event you'll use 'em for. If you go in there with the attitude of "**** SSRIs, show me the Xanax", you probably won't get very far.

It's a really bad idea to just write off an entire class of drugs (SSRIs) based on all the anti-SSRI discussion you'll find on the internet. You have no way of knowing how they'll affect you without trying them, and you may be surprised. Benzos may work instantly after taking them ("acute phase"), but are a pretty pathetic solution in the "chronic phase".

In my case, after a few weeks of lorazepam I was switched to pregabalin, which is pretty similar to benzos but supposedly more sustainable. I have to say, I've gained a lot of respect for my psychiatrist and the way I've been handled, contrary to some people's stories.

Another thing -- if you are under 18, treatment options are somewhat limited unless your Dr. is willing to prescribe "off-label".

One more thing to bear in mind: at least for me, most medications' effects were overwhelmed and distorted by the influence of benzos, when I've been on them. What I'm saying is, the impression of a med you get while on benzos will probably be very distorted.



> perhaps even having a therapist talk to the tree to see if it might be willing to fall over on its own.


Hahaha.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> I get to suffer endlessly with anxiety because benzos don't get the job done for me, but we're supposed to pretend that there exist no other anti-anxiety drug classes. We're supposed to pretend that anti-anxiety drugs didn't exist till the into of benzos in 1960s. Am I supposed to be happy that I can't legally obtain any drug that I wish to try to combat my anxiety? Apparently, I'm not smart enough to make my own choices about my own body and my own medical treatment. After all, I'm only 36 -- an adult twice over!


You never tried Nardil or Parnate which can work very well for treatment resistant (Social) Anxiety Disorder & Depression. Your fears of MAOIs are irrational. Why don't you take the chance to live happier?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> I've in the past described doctors as being the kind of morons who'd try to cut down a tree with a butter knife. Won't work, but nobody is going to get hurt by a butter knife. Now a logger would simply get out a chainsaw and have that tree down real fast. A chainsaw is quite a dangerous tool in relative terms but it gets the job done quickly & efficiently. The doctor could spend an entire year (at $250 an hour) trying one ineffective method after another trying to deal with that tree, perhaps even having a therapist talk to the tree to see if it might be willing to fall over on its own.:lol


No profession will allow you to continue failing at your task and pay you even more money for doing so than the field of psychiatry. Low-risk prescriptions = higher cash reward for them. To a psychiatrist, success means having a long list of patients coming back to their office saying "This med didn't work for me". It makes their face look something like...

*$\ / $*
* -*
* \__/*​


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Even if you don't wanna try MAOIs, it's definitely not the time to give up hope:

http://www.neurotransmitter.net/newdrugs.html

With that said, I still think Nardil/Parnate would be a good idea.



> No profession will allow you to continue failing at your task and pay you even more money for doing so than the field of psychiatry. Low-risk prescriptions = higher cash reward for them. To a psychiatrist, success means having a long list of patients coming back to their office saying "This med didn't work for me". It makes their face look something like...


My psychiatrists have always been 100% concerned with helping me; maybe it's because with the NHS money isn't part of the equation (well, at least not in the same way). It's actually probably the reverse, where cheaper meds are preferred to keep NHS costs down.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Even if you don't wanna try MAOIs, it's definitely not the time to give up hope:
> 
> http://www.neurotransmitter.net/newdrugs.html


The problem is that most of these drugs are just in Phase I or II of the drug development process.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Medline said:


> You never tried Nardil or Parnate which can work very well for treatment resistant (Social) Anxiety Disorder & Depression. Your fears of MAOIs are irrational. Why don't you take the chance to live happier?


lol You're beating a dead horse. I don't think Karl is ever going to be interested in trying an MAOI. I don't see why his psychiatrist hasn't allowed him to try Dexedrine yet.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Even if you don't wanna try MAOIs, it's definitely not the time to give up hope:
> 
> http://www.neurotransmitter.net/newdrugs.html


Looks like Agomelatine could be a more tolerable alternative to ssri's when it comes out later this year.


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## Omnium11 (Feb 11, 2009)

Alright thanks for the advice guys. I won't tell him about the drug abuse history, I can't remember if my mom told him years ago though, I'll ask her. I have a big scar on my face from meth. I think I will just say I got it from a treadmill accident or something. Oh I used to be on paxil but it totally killed my sex drive and gave me strange thoughts / made me feel like a zombie. Also I want to try and eventually work out my problems on my own through meditation or exercise. I don't want to be on anything that will effect me all the time, while on it or takes a while to build up in your body before it becomes effective. Xanax seems perfect for me. Just pop one in right before an interview and then for first couple days of work. After that I can tolerate the anxiety on my own. Also have been making great strides lately general anxiety is pretty much gone, depression gone, but one on one interviews still is pretty brutal for me, even worse if theres more people in the room.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> lol You're beating a dead horse. I don't think Karl is ever going to be interested in trying an MAOI.


It's his fundamental human right to live anxious and depressive if he decides not to try the drugs that are used in treatment resistant cases.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

UltraShy said:


> .


well said.

when i have tried countless times over the period of several months and failed miserably to get my doctor to take certain problems seriously - that caused me immense frustration my whole life and was a clear reason for some of my severe struggles - and even consider meds, i resorted to taking the treatment into my own hands and finding the proper medication illegally, which wasn't exactly a rash decision as i did an extensive amount of research.

yet if i were to tell that to any doctor - and often even many patients with the same disorder who are prescribed the medication - i am immediately branded as a drug abuser and addict who is looked down on and never be trusted for them on, even though i'm just one of many sufferers of illnesses who failed to receive proper treatment and decided to access it through their own means... those despicable junkies (and i'm sure it is _much _worse and much more difficult for those with severe chronic pain who are denied the suitable help). in my case, i was never given proper treatment despite my efforts and the ignorance of who i otherwise think is a decent psychiatrist.

i was, eventually , successful after many months of expressing my problems to my doctor in convincing him that they were "real" problems and should receive proper care. he did end up prescribing me the medication i would take on my own, and it has helped immensely as i knew, so _hey, apparently she wasn't bull****ting when she said her problems were that severe and debilitating her whole life_


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Medline said:


> It's his fundamental human right to live anxious and depressive if he decides not to try the drugs that are used in treatment resistant cases.


It's a fundamental human right for competent adults such as myself to do anything we damn well please with our own bodies. Free men don't ask permission.

Sadly, my government doesn't see this right as being self-evident and does almost everything it can to enslave us. The essence of ownership is control. To say "I own that car" means that I can drive it, sell it, give it away, take it out to rural land and use it for target practice or whatever else I feel like. If I own myself then that would mean I could do with my body as I wish as well. Well, I can't because I'm a slave owned by the government.

Yet, in just over a week we'll have a whole herd of brainwashed pseudo-patriots waving their American flags (that were most likely made in China) celebrating Independence Day and living in the "land of the free", where "free" only means less unfree than some other repressive nation. They should have "Property of the U.S.A" tattooed on their *** & perhaps a bar code on their forehead.


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## Diya (Aug 28, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> They should have "Property of the U.S.A" tattooed on their *** & perhaps a bar code on their forehead.


You just made my day.


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## Mr. SandMan (Aug 24, 2007)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> This just shows that while some doctors (mine) hand 'em out like candy, others are paranoid and possibly more worried about saving their own butts than helping a patient - because let's face it, after the antidepressant didn't eliminate the panic attacks, nothing else but a benzo was going to.


but this isnt true...doctors arent trying to save their butts, xanax and benzos are pretty much the last resort, unless you take nardil or somethin...there is many more ways to overcome panic than benzos, unless you want to give up.

and even when your on benzos its not like your anxiety or panic ever goes away, you just surpress it for that event...then you need more and more, you become addicted, and overtime the benzos will stop working even if it takes twenty years...


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Or, you could even just say you've been doing heroin when you haven't. Not that I'd condone such actions...


They're not stupid they test for heroin and a specific metabolism it emits. You can't just get on methadone or sub that easy. I suppose you could say you where addicted to morphine and spike your levels by making a tea out of "flower arrangements" not that i'm condoning that either.

I also agree with *never* telling your doctor you have or have had a substance abuse problem true or otherwise (well unless you plan on getting on methadone or whatever) as it will kill your chances of ever obtaining anything "fun" (something that actually works) ever again even if you get in an accident and are in extreme pain.

It only took me two visits to get benzos but I didn't bring them up on the first visit and I acted very naive about it. I was never given the option of xanax or valium though I think a lot of doctors are trying to phase those out.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

dude that makes perfect sense :O


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## Keirelle (Apr 7, 2009)

LaRibbon said:


> I disagree.
> 
> So Drs are cautious. They prescribe the safest drugs first, then when they don't work they prescribe less safe drugs later. it doesn't make sense to go straight to the most dangerous drugs first. It's common sense.


I am with you. If a less addictive/weaker drug works, then you SHOULD be taking that drug, not a much stronger/more addictive drug, you know?

And as for people getting drugs like that illegally... um, really, really stupid. Especially with psych meds.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

kidding, its just the slippery slope logical fallacy


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> I feel a rant coming on. It's been a while since I've done one of my benzo rants in which I call the DEA a criminal organization guilty of crimes against humanity. The closest I've come to such a rant was last week when somebody asked if the DEA should be fired and my reply was "yes, preferably by a firing squad."
> 
> I'm absolutely disgusted by the way medications are dispensed in our nation. Patients in desperate need of treatment have to jump through every f'ing hoop to get anything that might potentially be abused by some moron. I'm sick and tired of having to live in a moron-proofed world. New parents will baby proof their home and it seems government similarly feels an uncontrollable need to junkie-proof the nation.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you want controlled substances for the treatment of a psychiatric disease like social phobia / anxiety disorder - you don't need those drugs for let's say 'severe pain' - did I get this right? And you dislike the Drug Enforcement Administration because they make it so hard for you to get those drugs in your opinion - is this also correct? May I ask which of those drugs you think would help you the most?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

bignate said:


> ...and even when your on benzos its not like your anxiety or panic ever goes away, you just surpress it for that event...then you need more and more, you become addicted, and overtime the benzos will stop working even if it takes twenty years...


So let's look at the two options here:

1) Suppress the anxiety for as long as possible, thereby improving the quality of one's life, or
2) give up completely, and continue to suffer.

It sure is an inane idea to choose the first, isn't it? :roll



bignate said:


> some of the worse advice ive ever heard in my life is on this thread...
> 
> yea, lie and say you have never abused drugs, the drugs you've used before couldnt possibley lead to anxiety or panic attacks...so lie, become a benzo addict and live your whole life dependent on a drug untill they finally decide to not work anymore because your body is amune...
> 
> ...


:no

This post is such an ignorant disorganized rant it doesn't even dignify a response. But keep living in your dreamworld that everybody can just overcome their problems by working on it through psychotherapy.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Medline said:


> Ok, so you want controlled substances for the treatment of a psychiatric disease like social phobia / anxiety disorder - you don't need those drugs for let's say 'severe pain' - did I get this right?


Is mental pain less bad? Seems to me mental pain has in some cases proven fatal. Fatal is generally deemed as bad as a disease gets, isn't it?

And, no, I don't want controlled substances. There should be no such thing as restrictions on drugs for consumption by adults. The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 belongs in the trash bin of history. I want substances to not be controlled period.



Medline said:


> And you dislike the Drug Eenforcement Administration because they make it so hard for you to get those drugs in your opinion - is this also correct?


"Dislike" is far too mild a term for a criminal organization that's guilty of crimes against humanity. The DEA spreads death & misery everywhere they go.



Medline said:


> May I ask which of those drugs you think would help you the most?


I don't know, which is why I'd like my right to try them all respected. If I had to make a list off the top of my head here are the drugs that I'd like to try:

-MDMA
-GHB
-Ketamine
-dextroamphetamine & methamphetamine
-all barbiturates
-methaqualone
-meprobamate
-marijuana
-heroin & all other opioids
-cocaine

That's as much as I can think of right now. There may be more I forgot.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> Is mental pain less bad? Seems to me mental pain has in some cases proven fatal. Fatal is generally deemed as bad as a disease gets, isn't it?


In my question I never implied mental pain was less bad than physical pain, did I? My question was neutral.



> And, no, I don't want controlled substances. There should be no such thing as restrictions on drugs for consumption by adults. The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 belongs in the trash bin of history. I want substances to not be controlled period.


You seem to think that just some idiots began to control the access to drugs with the potential of abuse, addiction and it's severe consequences for no reason whatsoever. But that's a very naive point of view. Alcohol & Nicotine are already killing so many million people and you really want to make drugs freely available that have very high abuse potential and are eg. being used for the euthanasia of horses (Pentobarbital)? + cocaine, crack, heroine, amphetamines, crystal meth, ecstasy... You also didn't get the point that there is no shortcut to happiness with these extremely primitive substances on there own (without ways to "outplay homeostasis").



> "Dislike" is far too mild a term for a criminal organization that's guilty of crimes against humanity. The DEA spreads death & misery everywhere they go.


These are very serious allegations. Please list their "crimes against humanity" and proof that the "spread death & misery everywhere they go".



> I don't know, which is why I'd like my right to try them all respected. If I had to make a list off the top of my head here are the drugs that I'd like to try:
> 
> -MDMA
> -GHB
> ...


I'm sure you would have some fun days with those substances or maybe even 1-2 weeks...


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## Cast Away (Feb 12, 2009)

bignate said:


> some of the worse advice ive ever heard in my life is on this thread...
> 
> yea, lie and say you have never abused drugs, the drugs you've used before couldnt possibley lead to anxiety or panic attacks...so lie, become a benzo addict and live your whole life dependent on a drug untill they finally decide to not work anymore because your body is amune...
> 
> ...


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

bignate said:


> first of all...anxiety is completely normal, second...when you expose yourself to situations that cause you anxiety, and get the right help to get you to think rational, it will get better, and it does get better...and dont even try to tell me i dont have social anxiety or that i havent delt with panic attacks.
> 
> how dare you, just how dare you even try to tell me i live in a dreamworld when you smoke marijuana by yourself because you hate your anxiety, you got it backwards...
> 
> ...


I've exposed myself to anxiety-provoking situations for 19 years, and saw two psychiatrists and two psychologists in the last couple of those - 3 of which attempted to cure me using psychotherapy. It doesn't work for everyone.

I was BORN with SA. Psychotherapy and CBT won't change my inept socializing demeanor, I need medication to learn how to find my inner sociable self.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

I remember reading a study recently that showed only 31% of people with SA maintained long term remission after recieving psychotherapy, which doesn't give me much faith in therapy tbh. I think that a lot of drugs shouldn't be illegal, it's ridiculous that drugs like mdma, ghb and cannabis are illegal when they cause very little harm in the population, less than 30 deaths last year in the uk for all those drugs combined, statistically you're more likely to die from horse riding.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Medline said:


> In my question I never implied mental pain was less bad than physical pain, did I? My question was neutral.


Misunderstandings happen online. I assumed you knew enough about me to know I don't need any meds for physical pain, thus asking such a question appeared to me to imply that heavy-duty drugs were less justified for mental problems and thus mental pain is not as bad. Apparently, that wasn't your intent.



Medline said:


> You seem to think that just some idiots began to control the access to drugs with the potential of abuse, addiction and it's severe consequences for no reason whatsoever.


I think such laws were made by idiots with good intentions who failed to recognized the unintended consequences and who now continue to somehow ignore the severe unintended consequences and utter failure of their drug laws. They may have the best intentions, but as the saying goes, the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

The only thing that has changed in the last 80 years is what substances are banned, the mob has been replaced by gangs & terrorist organizations, and the Tommy gun has been replaced by Glocks & AKs. Prohibition was a total failure. It didn't stop people from drinking between 1920-33. It just gave rise to a brutal black market where the mob controlled production & distribution of contraband liquor and killed anybody who got in their way. Murder rates shot sky high during the 1920s, just as much of the murder rate in the US results from our War On Drugs. But you'd expect death in war, wouldn't you?



Medline said:


> But that's a very naive point of view. Alcohol & Nicotine are already killing so many million people and you really want to make drugs freely available that have very high abuse potential and are eg. being used for the euthanasia of horses (Pentobarbital)? + cocaine, crack, heroine, amphetamines, crystal meth, ecstasy...


And those who choose to drink to excess or smoke damn well know the risk they are taking. They are adults free to choose how they wish to live or die and I have no desire to dictate to them what they should do regardless of what I may personally think about their choices. Keep in mind that every life eventually ends in death.

What does the use of barbs to kill a lame horse have to do with anything? A gun could do the job even faster, yet we haven't banned them (yet) in America.



Medline said:


> You also didn't get the point that there is no shortcut to happiness with these extremely primitive substances on there own (without ways to "outplay homeostasis").


I get the point. I must wonder if you get the point that I haven't in 36 years found any long road to happiness either. You may totally disagree with what I wish to do to my body, but what gives you or anybody else the right to tell me what I can & cannot do to MYSELF? When did you become my keeper? I would not presume to know what's best for others and impose my personal views upon them by force of law. I respect the freedom of others to do as they so choose. If they harm or even die by their choices, they knew the risks and I won't be shedding any tears for them.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

bignate said:


> ...the truth will set you free, good night.


Or everything you say can and will be used against you.



> take advice from people who hate life and everything about it...


Hey, I'm the bitter guy who hates life and everything about it. Wonder how I got that way? Maybe decades of being royally screwed by life has something to do with it.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> some of the worse advice ive ever heard in my life is on this thread...
> 
> yea, lie and say you have never abused drugs, the drugs you've used before couldnt possibley lead to anxiety or panic attacks...so lie, become a benzo addict and live your whole life dependent on a drug untill they finally decide to not work anymore because your body is amune...
> 
> ...


All of these judgements and assumptions about our lives in one post. You haven't given any consideration to our motivations; our consistent failure with therapy and fixing problems the "normal" way.

If absolutely ****ing nothing worked for you except drugs, would you continue to live your life as a depressed, schizoid, anxious loser, or would you just take the pills? Your situation isn't necessarily the same as everyone else in the world.



bignate said:


> first of all...anxiety is completely normal, second...when you expose yourself to situations that cause you anxiety, and get the right help to get you to think rational, it will get better, and it does get better...and dont even try to tell me i dont have social anxiety or that i havent delt with panic attacks.
> 
> how dare you, just how dare you even try to tell me i live in a dreamworld when you smoke marijuana by yourself because you hate your anxiety, you got it backwards...


Anxiety is normal, but anxiety disorders are not. You psychology people act like the "nurture" side of the argument is the only one.

By the way, I'm high right now. Thought you might want to know.



Medline said:


> there is no shortcut to happiness with these extremely primitive substances on there own (without ways to "outplay homeostasis").


Very true.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Medline said:


> Please list their "crimes against humanity" and proof that they [the DEA & the rest of the drug warriors] "spread death & misery everywhere they go".


http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.html

Read that. I'm too tired to restate the same case I've made a hundred times before over the years on this board. I especially like the 39 shots fired at an innocent 88-year-old woman. How does one justify that level of force?


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## Mr. SandMan (Aug 24, 2007)

all these 'arguments' are, is talk, and self pity...

try something new, and grow up.

its funny how i have the people who do drugs and drink alcohol every day of their lives tryna tell me how things are, probably the only reason some of you post is because your high, probably cant find it within yourself, just an 'asumption'...

if some of you have schizophrenia or a real mental disorder besides anxiety, my heart really truely does go out to you...but thats only the people who try, who try the right way...if you wanna do illegal drugs or alcohol to hide your problems i have no sympathy for you, and i hope you stay miserable, because i extremely dislike that person.

so continue getting high, continue making your problems worse, i encourage you to do that...i encourage you to keep complaining and keep running and hiding...let us not forget this is social anxiety support, this isnt bipolar disorder support, this isnt manic depressive support...

give yourself a real chance, good night.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

bignate said:


> all these 'arguments' are, is talk, and self pity...
> 
> try something new, and grow up.
> 
> ...


I hope you stay miserable too, because you clearly are.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)




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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

bignate said:


> its funny how i have the people who do drugs and drink alcohol every day of their lives tryna tell me how things are, probably the only reason some of you post is because your high, probably cant find it within yourself, just an 'asumption'...


Quite a bold assumption indeed. Grouping a number of people online who challenge your asinine claim of "There's only one way to cure anxiety, and it's my way" into a drug abuser stereotype hints you may be suffering from psychosis. Way to come off as an ill-intended jackass, though we all could tell you were from your first objection in this thread.



> if you wanna do illegal drugs or alcohol to hide your problems i have no sympathy for you, and i hope you stay miserable, because i extremely dislike that person.


Ahh... malevolence. A common trait of a drug-opposer. Funny how it's the anti-drug guy who wishes malice towards those who make decisions regarding only their own body and don't affect anyone but themselves.


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## BradPit (Apr 8, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> I don't know, which is why I'd like my right to try them all respected. If I had to make a list off the top of my head here are the drugs that I'd like to try:
> 
> -MDMA
> -GHB
> ...


Very interesting list my pet monkey would like to try GHB heroin & all other opioids!


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> I don't know, which is why I'd like my right to try them all respected. If I had to make a list off the top of my head here are the drugs that I'd like to try:
> 
> -MDMA
> -GHB
> ...


Just to clarify, is your opinion that these should be legal or that you should actually be supplied with these drugs?


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

It was easy for me to get xanax. I didn't even have to ask, although my doctor didn't give me any until I went through some other medication.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> Quite a bold assumption indeed. Grouping a number of people online who challenge your asinine claim of "There's only one way to cure anxiety, and it's my way" into a drug abuser stereotype hints you may be suffering from psychosis. Way to come off as an ill-intended jackass, though we all could tell you were from your first objection in this thread.


I suspect he is just suffering from "internet dick syndrome".


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## Mr. SandMan (Aug 24, 2007)

pffft...

physcosis this miserable that, drugs done ****ed you up...and i dont do drugs thank you very much, been there done that seen it saw it...

and again, i expect people who use drugs on a daily basis because they cant face their problems because they are weak at heart to think of me in negetive ways...

so once more, continue using illegal drugs and drinking alcohol because life is so hard for the socially anxious...i was 'born' with it too...you know how ridicioulis it sounds for you to say you were born socially anxious?? like you popped out and had a panic attack...social skills are Learend, social skills are not something you are born with, which is why there are so many different languages, which is why there are so many different cultures...you can hide behind your anxiety and let it beat you for your entire life, i dont care.

and to repeat myself once more, i really truelly do wish you people the best...but when i hear or read horrible advice from drug abusers, i just felt like i should say somethin, you know what im sayin...

so do what you do, good night.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

euphoria said:


> Just to clarify, is your opinion that these should be legal or that you should actually be supplied with these drugs?


I think all drugs should be legal without exception for use by adults. I'm not asking to be supplied with them. I'm asking for them to be legal so they can be produced by legitimate firms and sold in pharmaceutical grade form without the questionable purity & questionable potency of street drugs -- which may contain who knows what.

As for anyone who thinks my list is totally insane, one of the drugs I listed is Ketamine which according to a PBS show on depression last year was being studied for the treatment of severe depression that had failed to respond to any other treatments. In one case a guy who failed to improve even with ECT -- deemed the most effective depression treatment there is -- felt better within an hour of taking Ketamine. It certainly seems like something worthy of investigation. Or are we going to accuse PBS of sponsoring a great pro-drug conspiracy?


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

bignate said:


> pffft...
> 
> physcosis this miserable that, drugs done ****ed you up...and i dont do drugs thank you very much, been there done that seen it saw it...
> 
> ...


Stop replying to this thread if you find yourself unable to do anything but ridicule other people. You're not helping anything by being such a prick.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> you know how ridicioulis it sounds for you to say you were born socially anxious?? like you popped out and had a panic attack...social skills are Learend, social skills are not something you are born with, which is why there are so many different languages, which is why there are so many different cultures...you can hide behind your anxiety and let it beat you for your entire life, i dont care.


I never said that. I said that you're neglecting the nature side of the nature/nurture argument, which you are.

Psychology explains the events of your life, but the underlying determinants of how you think and how you behave are neurotransmitters and other genetically-controlled features of the brain (psychology is like the "software" to genetics' "hardware"). Genetics give a "bias" to every part of your personality, such that some people will never really experience life in a way that is conducive to anxiety, depression or other negative states of mind, while others will be all but guaranteed of these ailments unless they live an extremely sheltered life, like an AIDS patient living in a hermetically-sealed box to avoid infection.

I am fully aware of psychological techniques, but (not for lack of trying) consider them futile when I can see how fundamentally different to (and incompatible with) most people I am.



UltraShy said:


> I think all drugs should be legal without exception for use by adults. I'm not asking to be supplied with them. I'm asking for them to be legal so they can be produced by legitimate firms and sold in pharmaceutical grade form without the questionable purity & questionable potency of street drugs -- which may contain who knows what.
> 
> As for anyone who thinks my list is totally insane, one of the drugs I listed is Ketamine which according to a PBS show on depression last year was being studied for the treatment of severe depression that had failed to respond to any other treatments. In one case a guy who failed to improve even with ECT -- deemed the most effective depression treatment there is -- felt better within an hour of taking Ketamine. It certainly seems like something worthy of investigation. Or are we going to accuse PBS of sponsoring a great pro-drug conspiracy?


Oh, fair enough then. I agree in an idealistic world where everyone is a responsible, mentally-stable, non-addiction-prone drug-user. In the world I see today, legalising all drugs seems like it'd probably do more harm than good, unless you thought in a way that ranked everything in a hedonistic scale of pleasure down to pain (good / evil x time); in this case the drug pleasures would probably offset any ills of legalisation by quite a wide margin. Oh wait, that is exactly how I think.

As for ketamine, tolerance builds _very_ fast to its effects, so I'm not sure how useful it'd be as an antidepressant. Memantine, on the other hand, should be fine for blocking glutamate receptors.


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## Mr. SandMan (Aug 24, 2007)

im not a prick, quit calling me names.

second, im just tellin it how it is, take it how you will, im not ridiculing anybody.

all this scientific mumbo jumbo is completely pointless, and im being serious, its called anxiety...all this scientific nonsense is unneeded facts, it has nothing to do with the problem...yall would like to take anxiety and blow it all the way out of proportion...

im not taking away anything that it isnt hard, because it is, im not tryna get sentamental, this is just dumb, cause im not changing anything that you or anybody else will do, your gonna do what you wanna do point blank period...

and im just not buying the 'oh your problems are different than other peoples,' cause its not...anxiety is anxiety, just like depression is depression...the root cause of anxiety is more than likely different...but really, i dont even care to write more on the subject...

and once more, when i hear people tell other people to lie to get drugs, bignate must respond...so it is what it is, good night.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Idiocy rules the world. :mum


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

bignate said:


> ...you know how ridicioulis it sounds for you to say you were born socially anxious?? like you popped out and had a panic attack...social skills are Learend, social skills are not something you are born with, which is why there are so many different languages, which is why there are so many different cultures...you can hide behind your anxiety and let it beat you for your entire life, i dont care.


I barely ever talked to any adults or other children when I first learned to speak. For years, I even tried staying home from going to playgrounds or any other place where children would be - just ask my parents. I was different since the day I was born.

When I first went to kindergarten, I ran out of the room. It took my mom and the teacher's efforts to keep me from running out somewhere in the halls, and their encouragement to get me to stay there day after day. I talked less and less as I progressed through each school year, but this uncomfortableness and feeling of inept social skills intensified to where I am now... absolutely no social interaction except with family or through the internet, no job, can't attend college, scared as hell about even taking my road test and I should've been driving 3 years ago!

You act like you're able to see things through everybody's point of view. :roll



bignate said:


> all this scientific mumbo jumbo is completely pointless, and im being serious, its called anxiety...all this scientific nonsense is unneeded facts, it has nothing to do with the problem...yall would like to take anxiety and blow it all the way out of proportion...


Nonsensical post after callous judgment after admonishing preaching after ignorant ranting. Where does it stop?

The lattermost of that list, ignorant ranting, is displayed in the above quote of yours. The following article is "scientific mumbo jumbo", and Jerome Kagan (Ph.D) intelligently opposes your theories through scientific research.

*The Biological Causes of Social Anxiety Disorder [link]*


> Jerome Kagan, Ph.D. has researched the genetic causes of SAD at Harvard. In his study of children from infancy to adolescence he discovered that "10-15% of children to be irritable infants who become shy, fearful and behaviorally inhibited as toddlers, and then remain cautious, quiet, and introverted in their early grade school years. In adolescence, they had a much higher than expected rate of social anxiety disorder." This evidence suggests, of course, that people are born with SAD, which indicates that there are biological factors that contribute to its development, not simply environmental factors.


bignate; I recommend you try reading this^ entire article and see if you're able to understand it.



bignate said:


> and im just not buying the 'oh your problems are different than other peoples,' cause its not...anxiety is anxiety, just like depression is depression...the root cause of anxiety is more than likely different...but really, i dont even care to write more on the subject...


Nah man, the symptoms are different and so are the interpretations of social situations by social phobics. It's a really widely known concept by SA sufferers but maybe someday you'll learn more about psychological illness.


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

Yeah what do facts and scientific research have to do with anything. Let's just take accepted social judgements as the only truth and put our will on other people by saying we're "helping them"

I'm not advocating lying or drug use to anyone. But if someone wants to dope themselves up they should have the choice.


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## Mr. SandMan (Aug 24, 2007)

well illusional fate, my friend, im alot smarter than you think, believe that my pot smoking weed growing "genius"

anyways, ive done my homework on social anxiety...

untill you face your anxiety like a grown up, dont even talk, thank you.

and quit throwing in words that you look up to try to sound smart...you sound and look very smart growing and smoking illegal drugs, if thats not smart i dont know what is...if you understand that.

scientific mumbo jumbo, i will stand by it, blah blah...run and find your best way to hide behind your anxiety, and make as many excuses as you would like, thats intellegence.

good night.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

korey said:


> Idiocy rules the world. :mum


I've noticed that. Probably helps explain why I'm usually in a bad mood.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

bignate said:


> well illusional fate, my friend, im alot smarter than you think, believe that my pot smoking weed growing "genius"


Yeah, because smart people say "alot".


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Yeah, because smart people say "alot".


Smart people have narrow vocabularies and require dictionaries first in order to attempt refutation:


bignate said:


> and quit throwing in words that you look up to try to sound smart


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

bignate said:


> im smart


LOL :lol


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

bignate said:


> smart people do say alot, cause im smart and i say alot alot...


euphoria, he didn't even understand what you meant. :lol



> and you wonder why your social anxiety is beating you to the ground...you guys couldnt hold a conversation if your life depended on it, not even on the web...


You think anyone you're debating with here has any desire to hold an online conversation with you? If it was real life I would have just laughed, said something disparaging your way, and continue to walk.


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## weebeastiebaby (May 15, 2009)

OMG why all the hate? Some people DO have very severe anxieties. To each their own, whatever works. Oh and it was pretty easy for me to get xanax cuz my pdoc is very "chill". I had to go on ativan first though. It didn't help much.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

bignate said:


> i know you would have, because you wouldnt be able to stand and talk and hold a conversation.


Yeah, I'm very shy when it comes to holding a conversation with somebody I just met. If I didn't take Nardil for 7 months, I wouldn't be as socially-confident in myself enough to go to a SAS meet up.

But now, Nardil makes me confident enough to attend meet ups and socialize with people  (although I'm always pretty nervous and unsociable during the first 20 minutes *:\* ).



> and yea, i didnt know alot is two words, im sorry disillusional pot smoker...


Don't apologize about learning something new in the English language, it's both fun and interesting. 
If you want to apologize, you could do so for continued belligerence and unwarranted contempt towards those who absolutely need medication.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

bignate said:


> and you wonder why your social anxiety is beating you to the ground...you guys couldnt hold a conversation if your life depended on it, not even on the web...


Finally you get it! If we had functional personalities, don't you think we'd be a bit more willing to get ourselves back into the world?


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

bignate said:


> smart people do say alot, cause im smart and i say alot alot...
> 
> and you wonder why your social anxiety is beating you to the ground...you guys couldnt hold a conversation if your life depended on it, not even on the web...
> 
> ...


:um just... I have a hard time telling if you are for real or a troll. If you really feel that way why don't you start looking at yourself first before deciding to judge everyone else. I'm sorry for whatever happened to you man, but drop the ego for a bit and start treating people like human beings whether you agree with them or not. You're never going to help or change anything if you automatically feel you are above everyone.


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

bignate said:


> shut up.


Really mature of you man. Do you not realize you are talking to more than one person or something. :roll



> i guess if you see the truth as hate, i really dont know what to tell you...


But what is truth? It also matters how you present that truth.



> and i treat everyone like a human being...and i dont feel like im above anyone.
> 
> how dare you people insinuate such fallacies...just cause im harsh and dont sugar coat anything, yall act like wet paper towels, Grow Up.


 Because someone does drugs and smokes pot you automatically assume they are immature without even looking at their actions. And by your actions no you aren't treating people like human beings if you look down on them that has never helped anyone, ever.



> try to call me an idiot, its funny...if you want to live life on medicine, so be it, you must feel very good about yourself believing you need a pill, then afterwards smoking pot must also make you feel very good about yourself, thats a true shame...
> 
> its just a true shame yall dont have the heart to look within yourself, actually stick to it and face your problems like any normal person...then you attack the person who does, shame on you...


That is the ultimate in ego, if you can say 100% "no one ever needs drugs (or anything else) to cure their mental illness" then you do think you are better than everyone else because you assume what you feel is what they feel. Especially when you are looking down on scientific facts as "excuses"


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## ShyViolet (Nov 11, 2003)

How is this thread not locked yet? :lol


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