# the official clomipramine thread



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hey hey hey kids,

So this is going to be my official Clomipramine thread. I get the drug tomorrow so will probably start it tomorrow evening. My guess due to the histamine action taking it at night is probably preferred, but you can correct me on this one if experience tells you otherwise.

Right now i'm pretty nauseous as I went off both zyprexa/Effexor. I could have switched straight to clomipramine instead of going off Effexor but I decided to get off it early. It's not like super debilitating but enough to be uncomfortable and I could not imagine dealing with it well if I had to work. 

I'm going to get some biotene mouthwash and use it nightly and keep it by my bed just in case I wake up in the middle of the night with an insanely dry mouth. The goal here is not to get meth mouth. I'm hoping eventually the receptor upregulation takes care of the problem. The problem with things like biotene is it only scratches the surface of the teeth but doesn't help deep within the gums where saliva assists big time. If it gets really bad I may get my doctor to prescribe me some sort of cholinesterase inhibitor.

I'll keep this thread up to date with the latest and greatest chlomipramine information. If you want to include your own experiences/info feel free.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

I hope it treats you well, It'll be interesting to keep following your progress.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

goodluck and i hope it works for you, this is one drug that im really interested to know more about as my pdoc has suggested might be next in line. keep us updated!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks guys.

Yah I just got back from the doctor, i'm starting at 25mg and going to go up to 50mg after a week and stabilize eventually at 100-150mg.

I dropped the memantine because when I found out the price for 1 month worth it was just not viable for me. It's ridiculous because this thing is generic and costs more than brand name drugs. I mean wellbutrin brand name was way cheaper. 

Anyways, I took phenibut today to get myself out of the house, 4.5grams. It was a bad combo with my withdrawal symptoms as I became really antisocial. And I do mean the text book meaning of the word. I was literally trying to pick fights and cause issues. Some homey guy had his pants down really low and I kept starring him down and I really wanted to tell him he looks ridiculous. So instead I saw a bunch of animal hair on his shirt and I told him that that looks ridiculous. It at least quenched my craving to call him ridiculous lol. He just said "aww yah man, stupid cat". Anyways going to start the clomipramine tonight. 

Anyone know how soon before bed to take it? I know with olanzapine I had to do it 5 hours before bed. Ahh I guess i'll look up the peak plasma times.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh yah and I had to sort of push for the clomipramine because I told her during withdrawal I was suicidal, so she got really scared and then didn't want to give me such a strong drug because i'm a risk. And I had to explain to her it is simply thoughts that I will never act on. Whenever I'm suicidal I always think about it but in the future-tense where i'll do it eventually and thinking about it offers me relief. Anyways, I also told her I'm on phenibut which also didn't help the problem. But after a long discussion on what I'm doing and the fact that i'm 100% completely honest with her I guaranteed her i'm not a risk. Seriously, I told her the bigger risks are the ones that are not telling you all this stuff because they are lying and you don't know what's going on.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

BTW this is the cheapest med EVER. I paid 6 bucks for 30 tabs of 25mg. That's dirt cheap. And the 100mg pills are only 3 bucks more.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Just in case anyone is curious the peak plasma time is 1.2 hours. So I will be taking the drug at about 9pm daily. That should get me to bed between 10-11. If of course the histamine effect is potent enough.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> BTW this is the cheapest med EVER. I paid 6 bucks for 30 tabs of 25mg. That's dirt cheap. And the 100mg pills are only 3 bucks more.


That's coz its 1000 years old.

All I remember from it was the dry mouth. Went away after a couple weeks but was pretty bad at the start.
Oh and felt a little bit of a dirty drug but better then the other older meds I have tried.

What happened to Zoloft ? I thought you loved that stuff.....maybe I'm getting you mixed up with someone else...


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

CD700 said:


> That's coz its 1000 years old.
> 
> All I remember from it was the dry mouth. Went away after a couple weeks but was pretty bad at the start.
> Oh and felt a little bit of a dirty drug but better then the other older meds I have tried.
> ...


Yah mouth was a bit dry this morning. I haven't done Zoloft in like a year. I did like it combined with mirtazapine back then, but it pooped out on me.

I didn't get tired from the clomipramine last night though, had to take melatonin/zopiclone. I guess i'm too used to the stronger olanzapine.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I've been really hungry today. That's a change from the last 2 weeks where I've barely been eating. Damn 5-ht2c antagonism probably. I just ate and still feeling the hunger. 

I don't really mind hunger as I can fight it. Maybe i'll pick up some diet cokes as they seem to suppress my hunger. But yah I can fight hunger, but olanzapine even if you didn't eat much you would gain weight hehe.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Day 1 update. So took my first dose last night. Today was an interesting day. I didn't get any of the withdrawal effects I've been getting from quitting Effexor/zyprexa. The nausea was completely gone. I felt more energetic today, almost like a restlessness. I kept walking around the house randomly because I couldn't really sit still. But it wasn't a bad restlessness like when I took abilify. It just felt like I had energy and I should be using it. My guess is its the norepinephrine. I've felt a bit foggy in the brain, just a hazy feeling. Now that i'm closer approaching to my next dose, I'm yawning like crazy. I mean tears running through my eyes yawning. Yet I'm not really feeling tired. I keep shaking my leg neurotically like I have too much energy. 

So yah I mean I guess it's a good thing that it has gotten rid of the withdrawal from the other drugs, maybe it's a strong drug after all.

UPDATE: Man I am starving right now. I ate like 2 hours ago and a pretty big meal but I feel like I haven't ate all day. My stomach actually hurts of starvation. Much different than just the cravings olanzapine gave. This is like actual hunger pains hah. Ahh well just ignoring it.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Day 2: Did not sleep at all last night, maybe like 2 hours of sleep. I could not fall asleep for the life of me, just kept twisting and turning. This morning at like 5am I felt wide awake. I'm sure hoping this is temporary. I need my sleep


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Day 2: Did not sleep at all last night, maybe like 2 hours of sleep. I could not fall asleep for the life of me, just kept twisting and turning. This morning at like 5am I felt wide awake. I'm sure hoping this is temporary. I need my sleep


Can you add remeron or other atypicals for sleep? Or does it strictly have to be GABA drugs?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Can you add remeron or other atypicals for sleep? Or does it strictly have to be GABA drugs?


Yah but Remeron usually only works well at the beginning and starts to fade eventually. I'm hoping this is just an adjustment thing since clomipramine does hit histamine, maybe not as strong as Remeron but still good enough to be able to put you to sleep. Worse case scenario I may switch to taking it in the morning. I took zopiclone last night and it didn't do much, I mean I only took half but still. It's too early to tell if this will be a regular thing.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

Yeah. Few weeks and you'll know. I think thats where im at with prozac. I have given it enough time to shine and it just hasnt. Its probly saving me from zoloft withdrawals though so i guess not useless.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah I was pushing for Prozac with my old doctor but for some reason he didn't want to give it to me. Sort of glad as i'm thinking it would have been a waste of time anyways hehe.

On a side note, Zoloft and clomipramine are sort of very similar in the serotonin reuptake portion. The affinities are very close. Zoloft is a bit stronger but clomipramine is right there behind it.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> On a side note, Zoloft and clomipramine are sort of very similar in the serotonin reuptake portion. The affinities are very close. Zoloft is a bit stronger but clomipramine is right there behind it.


Thats good to know. If all else fails me, perhaps ill try clomipramine because of how well zoloft worked the first time round.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I was pushing for Prozac with my old doctor but for some reason he didn't want to give it to me. Sort of glad as i'm thinking it would have been a waste of time anyways hehe.
> 
> On a side note, Zoloft and clomipramine are sort of very similar in the serotonin reuptake portion. The affinities are very close. Zoloft is a bit stronger but clomipramine is right there behind it.


Let's hope it works well for you, but how many more medication trials are you prepared to do before you start to pursue a MAOI?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> Let's hope it works well for you, but how many more medication trials are you prepared to do before you start to pursue a MAOI?


I'd probably do a MAOI next unless I find something else i'm interested in. I'd be iffy on nardil though as Gaba usually makes my anhedonia worse.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I got to say I really feel the norepinephrine action of this drug. Like Effexor did nothing and wellbutrin was very weak. This you can feel, it feels like back in college when I used to take ephedra. The one with all the alkaloids that was banned. I can just feel it in my alertness. Although I keep getting up and walking around the house from room to room randomly without any real need to hehe.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Although I keep getting up and walking around the house from room to room randomly without any real need to hehe.


Welcome to my existence!!!!!!!!! What i would give to be able to just sit back, relax and unwind.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Welcome to my existence!!!!!!!!! What i would give to be able to just sit back, relax and unwind.


Hehe well hope it gets better for you soon. I hope it's transient for me. In the meantime I'll take some propranolol that always calms me down.

Also going to avoid coffee today, doubt that would help the situation hehe.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So with all the extra energy I decided to go out and jog. And man my exercise capacity has increased since I have done this. I mean it's been a while since I have been jogging since I got a bit lazy there thanks to the zyprexa. And when I did do it I was almost sedated like and couldn't last long. But yah I just ran longer than I have in a while and much faster too. Only thing is I was sweating way more than I ever sweat. It was running down me like rain. Ahh well, hopefully that stops me from walking around the house constantly 

I'm probably one of those people who convert clomipramine to desmethylclomipramine much more and as a result get more of the norepinephrine action. I could be wrong though and it may even be an even ratio, who knows.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

how long does it usually take with anafranil to see results? few weeks? Hope it works for you, might be the next drug in line for me, either this or nardil


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

It's pretty fast acting, you'll notice something within 1-2 weeks. Full effects are the usual 6 weeks wait. I've read many anecdotal reports of people noticing a difference within a week.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> It's pretty fast acting, you'll notice something within 1-2 weeks. Full effects are the usual 6 weeks wait. I've read many anecdotal reports of people noticing a difference within a week.


thats great, hope it kicks in sooner than later. Kehcorpz, do u also get regular attacks? My pdoc after having me on a few ssri's, snris, and benzos wants to put me on this for panic attacks, although i am not sure how effective this drug is for panic attacks.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> thats great, hope it kicks in sooner than later. Kehcorpz, do u also get regular attacks? My pdoc after having me on a few ssri's, snris, and benzos wants to put me on this for panic attacks, although i am not sure how effective this drug is for panic attacks.


I used to get panic attacks but for the most part things like zyprexa completely removed it. I haven't really been in any situations these days where I could get one. Most of them used to happen at work and well I quit haha. But yah I heard clomipramine can help in higher doses 100mg+


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I slept well last night. Maybe it was because I had no coffee yesterday? Who knows, but I hope this continues as sleep is so important to me. I don't feel as wired today so that's a good thing.

Edit:

Update 1: Man my eyes are super sensitive to sun. Even today which is a cloudy day my eyes were killing me while outside. Got a bit of a headache but who knows that could be from dropping Effexor cold turkey or memantine. Who knows.

Update 2: Tonight I will raise the dose to 50mg. For the most part dosing guidelines seem to state every 4 days go up by 25mg. This would be my 4th day so i'll just jump to it. I still haven't really noticed much dry mouth effects at 25mg, probably not hitting muscarinic receptors hard. I'm guessing 50mg will start to have some effect.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I have had low diastolic blood pressure today. Systolic has been normal.

I have been clocking 55-61 diastolic, usually I get 70-80. The Systolic has been from 115-117.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Well that good at least mine normally 140 to 100 or 128 to 86.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

@gotanxiety guess you'd like this drug then 

Man last night when I took 50mg I felt pretty relaxed and I fell asleep alright, but this morning woke up at 4am and have not been able to sleep since. I just keep twisting and turning. I'm like wide awake but I shouldn't be! ugh frustrating.

Worst part is I keep yawning like crazy yet can't sleep!

Ahh ended up taking a good 2 hour nap. 

I have been reading and apparently clomipramine is really bad for sleep. It screws with sleep latency, REM and slow wave sleep.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

Is it true that clomi is best for ocd? 

Damn maybe I should have tried a TCA in the past but now I'm afraid that this train has left not enough time anymore to try out harder stuff with an even bigger risk of side effects.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

T800 said:


> Is it true that clomi is best for ocd?
> 
> Damn maybe I should have tried a TCA in the past but now I'm afraid that this train has left not enough time anymore to try out harder stuff with an even bigger risk of side effects.


Well studies do show it being superior.

Man, you would never survive a TCA. The side effects can be horrible, the risks are huge. The drugs can be lethal. They can cause issues with your heart.

You'd then be saying how irresponsible your doctor was for prescribing it.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

Ok then at least I dont even have to think about TCA if the sides are so bad.
What sucks is never knowing what to do. I mean maybe I needed something really strong in order to even be able to make it but on the other hand the fear of side effects could prevent me from taking it. In the end you never know what's right and what's wrong.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

My blood pressure was normal all throughout the day. I do notice that about 2 and a half hours after taking the drug my heart rate really speeds up. I'm sitting at 121/72 blood pressure and a heart rate of 96. Pretty crazy stuff hehe.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hmm chart no longer shows, ahh well.

So last night slept bad again, a bit better than the other night though. I woke up at 3am and could not sleep anymore, had tonnes of energy so I just kept moving my legs in bed. I think eventually after 4 I fell asleep again. I then woke up again had a similar problem and then once again fell asleep. 

The sleep is very non-restful and I hope that changes. The studies I read all do show it shortening REM sleep among other problems. The drug is old school so not many anecdotes out there. I mean there are a few but that's it, this is not prescribed often that's for sure.

I also feel a bit nauseous after I eat in the morning. Seems to happen every time.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm actually starting to notice a slight mood lift. I mean since quitting all my other drugs I have been pretty out of commission. I haven't been watering plants or taking out garbage, just kind of letting things pile up, but today I actually accomplished some things and I didn't have to force myself I kind of wanted to. So that may be a good sign.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah i've been a lazy bum to unfontanately alcohol and porn has gotten the best of me lol. I just wanna lay in my bed and do nothing. Been to scared to go out side the last 5 days plus being drunk in public and causing fights maybe a bad idea. Its so hard to drink responable it might be better to not even touch that stuff.

It must be awesome to have low bloodpressure I could imagine. It probably feels like being on a cloud lol.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> Yeah i've been a lazy bum to unfontanately alcohol and porn has gotten the best of me lol. I just wanna lay in my bed and do nothing. Been to scared to go out side the last 5 days plus being drunk in public and causing fights maybe a bad idea. Its so hard to drink responable it might be better to not even touch that stuff.
> 
> It must be awesome to have low bloodpressure I could imagine. It probably feels like being on a cloud lol.


Lol I don't even know how you can do that. Alcohol numbs my genitals for some reason. Even like if I have a few beers if I go to pee my genitals feel all numb like I got novacaine injection. No erections for me when this happens.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Lol I don't even know how you can do that. Alcohol numbs my genitals for some reason. Even like if I have a few beers if I go to pee my genitals feel all numb like I got novacaine injection. No erections for me when this happens.


Man you gotta *drink* the beer and not hang your wiener into it. Of course this happen.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Lol I don't even know how you can do that. Alcohol numbs my genitals for some reason. Even like if I have a few beers if I go to pee my genitals feel all numb like I got novacaine injection. No erections for me when this happens.


The rebound is mostly pro sexual. Where the sedation would interfere mostly one or two drinks shouldn't really be a problem.

Time to call it quits a 2 to 3 day bid is to hard on the body. Stupid flood I need to shower 2 weeks without showering. I think all the bactiera must clean themselve cause I don't think I smell that bad lol.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> The rebound is mostly pro sexual. Where the sedation would interfere mostly one or two drinks shouldn't really be a problem.
> 
> Time to call it quits a 2 to 3 day bid is to hard on the body. Stupid flood I need to shower 2 weeks without showering. I think all the bactiera must clean themselve cause I don't think I smell that bad lol.


Oh yah totally sucks with the flood and all, hope Harper helps you guys out with some mad money.

My blood pressure just clocked in at 120/76 and an 86 pulse, so not too shabby.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

Actually they were giving out 1250 dollar cheques. I don't feel like taking the money I feel even tho I was evaucated 3 times I really didn't lose anything since I was a displaced person already lol. 

Those beautiful volenteers made the disaster worth it tho lol. 

Actually I got it on video when we were crossing the bow being escorted by cops like a 1000 of us it was pretty cool. Probably nothing compare new orleans I imagine.

Its ridulcious them just handing out money like that I know people that are fruading them getting several cheques and buying crack lol. It a good day to be a drug dealer lol.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

Is this a resting pulse? That's high considering you're taking a betablocker, too.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Nah I haven't been taking the propranolol since I gave up the other meds. I've only been using it prn If I have to go somewhere or do something, otherwise decided not to take it daily and it will save me big money hehe. I'm cheap yah.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

Is propanolol expensive? I'd had expected this stuff to be cheap.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

It raining again! We better build those giant ships off of 2012 to be on the safe side I think.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

@t800 it's cheap but cheaper if used prn ;P

@gotanxiety yah raining here all the time too now



Man had a horrible sleep again last night. Had trouble falling asleep and then woke up at 3am again with lots of energy. I don't get this 3am thing, I think it's because the drug increases cortisol. Well, here's hoping I eventually adjust.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

Man had a horrible sleep again last night. Had trouble falling asleep and then woke up at 3am again with lots of energy. I don't get this 3am thing, I think it's because the drug increases cortisol. Well, here's hoping I eventually adjust.[/QUOTE]

try taking it in the morning and see....


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> try taking it in the morning and see....


Yah I've been slowly moving it up in my time to take my dose. I took it at 6pm yesterday. It still makes me tired about 2 hours in and I yawn like crazy, it's just I can't fall asleep. So unless I can get used to the initial tiredness I don't think i'd ever do mornings with it. Plus i'm still going up in dose so it could be the higher doses knock me out more, so won't play with timing much until I'm at my final dose.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I've been slowly moving it up in my time to take my dose. I took it at 6pm yesterday. It still makes me tired about 2 hours in and I yawn like crazy, it's just I can't fall asleep. So unless I can get used to the initial tiredness I don't think i'd ever do mornings with it. Plus i'm still going up in dose so it could be the higher doses knock me out more, so won't play with timing much until I'm at my final dose.


The yawning will pass.
I`m on 75 and its dam stimulating.
are you taking the Brand? is it an SR ver?
there are two generic versions of brand name Anafranil.(in my country)
one is Clomipramin the other is Maronil. I had horrible response to both.
Maronil is very sedative kind like remeron(little less tho)
Clomipramin is very weak and short acting compare to the brand name Anafranil SR.
I really hope you are not taking either.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> The yawning will pass.
> I`m on 75 and its dam stimulating.
> are you taking the Brand? is it an SR ver?
> there are two generic versions of brand name Anafranil.(in my country)
> ...


Honestly I have no idea, mines just plain generic. Even so there is no other release formulas here, even brand name is just standard like the generic. About 2 hours after taking it I also feel very warm and content and this seems to be consistent but doesn't last very long.

Do you get dry mouth at 75? I still haven't really experienced much dry mouth, maybe a bit at first when starting 25mg.

Oh and what time you take it at?


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Honestly I have no idea, mines just plain generic. Even so there is no other release formulas here, even brand name is just standard like the generic. About 2 hours after taking it I also feel very warm and content and this seems to be consistent but doesn't last very long.
> 
> Do you get dry mouth at 75? I still haven't really experienced much dry mouth, maybe a bit at first when starting 25mg.


dry mouth and all other nasty SEs start (for me) on 150mg and up. although i do get the sweating.
the brand name Anafranil SR is sold world wide and its dam cheap. 
you can always have the pharmacy to get you the brand.
i take it around 7am


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> dry mouth and all other nasty SEs start (for me) on 150mg and up.
> the brand name Anafranil SR is sold world wide and its dam cheap.
> you can always have the pharmacy to get you the brand.
> i take it around 7am


Ahh i'll stick to the cheaper generic. I can't see how it would be any different because there's no special release formula and it has a long half life. The brand name is sold here as Clomicalm. I can't even afford to pay an extra 10 bucks as it's 10 bucks that can go somewhere else. Anyways thus far it's been going well minus the whole sleep thing. 7am, wow. Well today I'll take it at 5pm. If I don't adjust to the sleep problem within 4-5 days i'll start moving it to early mornings.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Konami, how's your appetite on this med? At first when I started 25mg it was making me get hunger pains, but now I barely touch food. I'm losing weight rapidly because im off the zyprexa but at the same time i'm also barely eating. I ate today at like 9am and It's 4pm and i'm not even hungry. I probably won't eat till around 8pm as i'm just not hungry and that's my next window to eat hehe.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Konami, how's your appetite on this med? At first when I started 25mg it was making me get hunger pains, but now I barely touch food. I'm losing weight rapidly because im off the zyprexa but at the same time i'm also barely eating. I ate today at like 9am and It's 4pm and i'm not even hungry. I probably won't eat till around 8pm as i'm just not hungry and that's my next window to eat hehe.


thankfully my appetite has decreased. i need to remind myself to eat which is great cuz i need to loose some weight.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

May I ask why the both of you are on such low dosages?

I started off on 50 mg when I started Anafranil. Isn't the therapeutic range 150-250 mg?

If you're doing this on your own, building up fast really is not an issue. Building up too slow could be an issue since you might have gotten tired of the side effects before you've had any therapeutic effect.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> May I ask why the both of you are on such low dosages?
> 
> I started off on 50 mg when I started Anafranil. Isn't the therapeutic range 150-250 mg?
> 
> If you're doing this on your own, building up fast really is not an issue. Building up too slow could be an issue since you might have gotten tired of the side effects before you've had any therapeutic effect.


Eh that's how my doc wanted to do it. I'm just glad she gave me the drug. So next Saturday I'll go back to see her and she will increase my dosage.

On a side note, I slept decent last night. I did wake up at 3am again but this time I was able to fall back asleep without so much trouble. I did take my dosage at 4pm last night, maybe it helped. Today i'll take it at 12pm.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So today I took it at 12pm and 2 and a half hours later and i'm not tired, so that's a good thing. That was my biggest concern with taking it early as it did make me tired at night, well at least the constant yawning. But so far so good, no yawning either heh.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Man, didn't sleep much again despite taking it at 12pm. I basically had trouble falling asleep, kept waking up and then finally at 5am I woke up and just could not get back to sleep, so I have been up since. I know that clomipramine is known for modulating cortisol levels, so i'm wondering if it's causing a spike of cortisol a bit too early. Ahh well if I don't adjust I may actually consider low dose Remeron or Seroquel.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Man, didn't sleep much again despite taking it at 12pm. I basically had trouble falling asleep, kept waking up and then finally at 5am I woke up and just could not get back to sleep, so I have been up since. I know that clomipramine is known for modulating cortisol levels, so i'm wondering if it's causing a spike of cortisol a bit too early. Ahh well if I don't adjust I may actually consider low dose Remeron or Seroquel.


Might just take some time getting used to. Broken sleep is the absolute worst--Nardil was the king for that.

I've been having really broken sleep as well--not insomnia, but nightmares. I can't tell if it's the wellbutrin XL, gabapentin or the seroquel I use to get to bed. :S


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Might just take some time getting used to. Broken sleep is the absolute worst--Nardil was the king for that.
> 
> I've been having really broken sleep as well--not insomnia, but nightmares. I can't tell if it's the wellbutrin XL, gabapentin or the seroquel I use to get to bed. :S


Yah I took it at 7:30am today at some point I laid down in bed and fell asleep for a couple of hours. It's messed up hehe.

Are you taking wellbutrin at night? That was definitely a morning drug for me.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

@konami, it doesn't affect your libido/erections when you take it early? It's weird because my libido/drive were fine when taking it at night. I mean even today I woke up and was really horny and was popping erections easily, but after taking it at 7:30am I'm now feeling like limp dick. Hopefully I adjust to it but that would suck if it was consistent and I'm not even at therapeutic dose. Quite possible though that the anti-serotonergic action doesn't kick in till you reach a therapeutic dose as the affinities for those are much weaker. Either way something I will be considering to add on is Ritalin, but still not sure on that one. I mean the doc would have to agree as well hehe.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> @konami, it doesn't affect your libido/erections when you take it early? It's weird because my libido/drive were fine when taking it at night. I mean even today I woke up and was really horny and was popping erections easily, but after taking it at 7:30am I'm now feeling like limp dick. Hopefully I adjust to it but that would suck if it was consistent and I'm not even at therapeutic dose. Quite possible though that the anti-serotonergic action doesn't kick in till you reach a therapeutic dose as the affinities for those are much weaker. Either way something I will be considering to add on is Ritalin, but still not sure on that one. I mean the doc would have to agree as well hehe.


in my condition sex is the last thing i care about. 
if i take it at night i wont be able to fall asleep.
yes my libido is zero(erection orgasm drive etc)
I added 150 wellbutrin today plus i upped Anafranil dose to 150. if wellbutrin doesn't give me boost of energy then ill try Provigil. Anyhow im not going to go with the stims route.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> in my condition sex is the last thing i care about.
> if i take it at night i wont be able to fall asleep.
> yes my libido is zero(erection orgasm drive etc)
> I added 150 wellbutrin today plus i upped Anafranil dose to 150. if wellbutrin doesn't give me boost of energy then ill try Provigil. Anyhow im not going to go with the stims route.


Ahh that sucks, I'm not too worried about it at this point either but I would like to resolve it at some point.

Ugh been up since 3am today not to mention kept waking up until that point. This sleeplessness is going to drive me crazy!!!

I'm going to take remeron tonight, I seriously can't stand this lack of sleep anymore.


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Ahh that sucks, I'm not too worried about it at this point either but I would like to resolve it at some point.
> 
> Ugh been up since 3am today not to mention kept waking up until that point. This sleeplessness is going to drive me crazy!!!
> 
> I'm going to take remeron tonight, I seriously can't stand this lack of sleep anymore.


Hit it for six and do a remeron/seroquel double whammy. Thats what i feel like doing. Oh and some olanzapine to dust it off.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Hit it for six and do a remeron/seroquel double whammy. Thats what i feel like doing. Oh and some olanzapine to dust it off.


Yah then i'd be out all day the next day hehe. Remeron is already bad with that. And I can't take olanzapine anymore


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

any recent updates?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Not much to update really. I've been taking 15mg Remeron which helps me sleep. I'm also taking 75mg of the clomipramine. I'd say maybe it has lessened my depression a bit but still there. Won't get an increase still Saturday.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Not much to update really. I've been taking 15mg Remeron which helps me sleep. I'm also taking 75mg of the clomipramine. I'd say maybe it has lessened my depression a bit but still there. Won't get an increase still Saturday.


best of luck and hope you get some good results soon


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Not much to update really. I've been taking 15mg Remeron which helps me sleep. I'm also taking 75mg of the clomipramine. I'd say maybe it has lessened my depression a bit but still there. Won't get an increase still Saturday.


Remeron seems like a good one. That, seroquel, cyproheptadine, or maybe lyrica (though I know you say it makes anhedonia worse :S, have you tried it though?)

Keh, when you were on wellbutrin XL, did it make you feel more depressed? It seems like it makes my depression worse though not into the severely crying category yet. I think I have agitated/mixed depression and I'm not so sure I should elbow my way through 8 weeks of this. I'm tired of getting off drugs early, but at the same time, I usually have a rule where if it makes my depression worse that's the only time I quit something early...

What do you think?

BTW, I think clomipramine would've been worse for me... I'm so sensitive to NET inhibition it's not funny.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Remeron seems like a good one. That, seroquel, cyproheptadine, or maybe lyrica (though I know you say it makes anhedonia worse :S, have you tried it though?)
> 
> Keh, when you were on wellbutrin XL, did it make you feel more depressed? It seems like it makes my depression worse though not into the severely crying category yet. I think I have agitated/mixed depression and I'm not so sure I should elbow my way through 8 weeks of this. I'm tired of getting off drugs early, but at the same time, I usually have a rule where if it makes my depression worse that's the only time I quit something early...
> 
> ...


Well the problem when switching drugs is you get that depression after quitting your first drug, in this case Nardil. I mean it raises all levels of these neurotransmitters so obviously after quitting it throws you off balance.

I know i'm still experiencing my depression after quitting Effexor/zyprexa. I'm not blaming clomipramine for my depression. I'm using it to try and stabilize again. So i'm depressed and I could blame it on clomipramine. And yes I kept getting worse depression even though I was raising dose of clomipramine so I could easily say it was clomipramine doing it but I knew better. It's only now i'm starting to have these "windows" of feeling a bit better, and just a tad bit, still in depression though.

Anyways, I guess it would have been better just to stick with Zoloft on its own initially and then once you feel better start working on anhedonia. I can relate to wanting to rush things, no doubt. I mean staring at my ceiling all day is as fun as it gets but I want it to end soon! But now you're left with this question of what's causing what and you really don't know, none of us do. I guess quitting wellbutrin won't hurt and just focus on Zoloft until your depression lifts. Once it lifts only then will you truly know which drug does what to you.

I mean I'm also not adding anything else to my clomipramine right now, I really want to just get a feel for the drug alone. I removed the memantine and i'm just doing clomipramine. Once I'm stable on it I may add Ritalin or something of that nature.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Well the problem when switching drugs is you get that depression after quitting your first drug, in this case Nardil. I mean it raises all levels of these neurotransmitters so obviously after quitting it throws you off balance.
> 
> I know i'm still experiencing my depression after quitting Effexor/zyprexa. I'm not blaming clomipramine for my depression. I'm using it to try and stabilize again. So i'm depressed and I could blame it on clomipramine. And yes I kept getting worse depression even though I was raising dose of clomipramine so I could easily say it was clomipramine doing it but I knew better. It's only now i'm starting to have these "windows" of feeling a bit better, and just a tad bit, still in depression though.
> 
> ...


Yeah definitely. I probably shouldn't have added it until Zoloft relieved the major depression; I'm just in a rush to get functional for the fall semester. 
I'm almost at 4 weeks with Zoloft...currently at 17 days, so I guess I could try and put up with it unless it gets much worse. I can't even think right now as I'm typing this.

I don't seem to feel particularly anxious, though I am having major insomnia without the gabapentin for sure and I feel quite a bit restless like my blood is boiling. Yay.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> Yeah definitely. I probably shouldn't have added it until Zoloft relieved the major depression; I'm just in a rush to get functional for the fall semester.
> I'm almost at 4 weeks with Zoloft...currently at 17 days, so I guess I could try and put up with it unless it gets much worse. I can't even think right now as I'm typing this.
> 
> I don't seem to feel particularly anxious, though I am having major insomnia without the gabapentin for sure and I feel quite a bit restless like my blood is boiling. Yay.


Well the restlessness is probably Wellbutrin, that's for sure. I know clomipramine gave me restlessness at first, but now i'm pretty calm and relaxed. It seems after hitting the 75mg dose I became way less anxious, but depression is still there. The only thing i'm anxious about is my doctors appointment which I'm going to have to convince her to put me on 150mg and she's being way too cautious with this drug. Most likely she will want me to titrate to 100,125 then 150, ugh


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

I am late to the party but I would like to know.. How are you doing with clomipramine? do you have really dry mouth? I was supposed to take clomipramine a long time ago but I was too afraid to try it due to the anticholinergic effects. I am obsessed with my teeth.

Does the dry mouth subside? 75mg is a relatively high dose althought not too high, but high compared to the 10-25mg that some people are prescribed.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bazinga said:


> I am late to the party but I would like to know.. How are you doing with clomipramine? do you have really dry mouth? I was supposed to take clomipramine a long time ago but I was too afraid to try it due to the anticholinergic effects. I am obsessed with my teeth.
> 
> Does the dry mouth subside? 75mg is a relatively high dose althought not too high, but high compared to the 10-25mg that some people are prescribed.


Nah no dry mouth. Only side effect I've had is sleep issues which taking in the morning did not fix. I ended up adding 15mg remeron and it solved the problem. Remeron made me tired first few days but now things are normal.


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## bazinga (Jun 9, 2010)

That is actually really interesting to know. That makes me feel a little bit relieved to try clomipramine.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Well we will see what happens once I get to 150mg. I'm hoping if I do get the dry mouth that it doesn't last long. I've read some anecdotes of people saying it does go away within a month. So that's always reassuring.

@konami how is your mouth on the 150mg?


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Well we will see what happens once I get to 150mg. I'm hoping if I do get the dry mouth that it doesn't last long. I've read some anecdotes of people saying it does go away within a month. So that's always reassuring.
> 
> @konami how is your mouth on the 150mg?


Its bad! especially during the night.
and the sweating ohhhh man im about to drop it.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> Its bad! especially during the night.
> and the sweating ohhhh man im about to drop it.


Give it a month to go away. I mean it's only sweating. I would care more about the dry mouth hehe.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I miss never being nervous when on Effexor/zyprexa. Now going to the docs and i'm nervous hehe. I guess clomipramine can work too once it kicks in. 

@Konami, how's the anxiety on clomipramine?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

blood pressure 119/76 pulse 91!!!!!

Just took some propranolol, hopefully gets pulse down hehe

@Konami, have you checked your heart rate? Maybe that's why you're sweating. I am a bit sweaty with the 91 rate but it could be cuz it's really warm who knows.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I miss never being nervous when on Effexor/zyprexa. Now going to the docs and i'm nervous hehe. I guess clomipramine can work too once it kicks in.
> 
> @Konami, how's the anxiety on clomipramine?


zero anxiety(general not social). im feeling very well and it hasn't fully kicked yet.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> blood pressure 119/76 pulse 91!!!!!
> 
> Just took some propranolol, hopefully gets pulse down hehe
> 
> @Konami, have you checked your heart rate? Maybe that's why your sweating. I am a bit sweaty with the 91 rate but it could be cuz it's really warm who knows.


never checked my heart rate. i sweat when i get up from the couch to the bathroom finish my biz there then back to the couch and i am all F wet.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So I got the higher dosage prescribed. I did notice that I was out quite long, waiting a while for the doc and so on, and man my mouth got super dry at one point. I mean I wasn't drinking or anything but it felt like a dessert in there. It's fine now after I had a drink hehe.

Hm,m maybe it was the propranolol as I took 60mg before going to the docs. Would make sense. It has dried my mouth before and i'm not taking it daily anymore.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm going to do 100 for a while see how I feel. It takes 3 weeks to reach steady state, it's quite possible that 100 will do the job and I won't need to go to 150. Maybe i'll even do 125. I just want to avoid the dry mouth lol. Anyways doc gave me enough pills to decide which dose I want to stabilize at.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

konamitech said:


> zero anxiety(general not social). im feeling very well and it hasn't fully kicked yet.


How long have you been on clomipramine? What dose? When did the AD effect kick in?


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

gilmourr said:


> How long have you been on clomipramine? What dose? When did the AD effect kick in?


2 weeks.
5 days on 75mg(this is the startup dose in my country) then 150mg.
i dont think the med has fully kicked yet but a day after i went from 75 to 150 i felt calm, no suicidal thoughts, less tired more alert....that's about it so far.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> 2 weeks.
> 5 days on 75mg(this is the startup dose in my country) then 150mg.
> i dont think the med has fully kicked yet but a day after i went from 75 to 150 i felt calm, no suicidal thoughts, less tired more alert....that's about it so far.


I hear you on the calm feeling. I took 100 this morning and i'm sitting here reading and feeling very calm and actually able to focus on what i'm reading. It's been tough to focus the last while so it's a good thing the focus is starting to come back. I also don't feel as depressed today.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Still doing 100mg daily, i'm going to do it for a few days just to adjust. It's possible the dry mouth will not be as bad if I step through the doses. I did wake up this morning with a particularly dry mouth. It was very dry but I have biotene near my bed for these emergencies. Other than this morning it's been fine since I woke up and had food.

I should also note that I took regular mirtazapine in tablet form yesterday and it did not make me as tired as the soltab disintegrating pills. I think the soltab all hit you at once quickly so you get overwhelmed histamine receptors. I literally need to crawl to bed on the soltab ones. Ahh well i'll take it much earlier today see if that helps.

Oh and I added 25mg of clomipramine this afternoon so now at 125mg. I figured I might as well.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Today I woke up after about 8 hours of sleep and was super alert and have been since. I think this stuff is starting to work at the higher dosage. I definitely don't feel as depressed today. I am going to do 150mg tomorrow.

Also I mowed the lawn pretty early this morning as I have been letting it get super long.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Today I woke up after about 8 hours of sleep and was super alert and have been since. I think this stuff is starting to work at the higher dosage. I definitely don't feel as depressed today. I am going to do 150mg tomorrow.
> 
> Also I mowed the lawn pretty early this morning as I have been letting it get super long.


Good Luck on 150!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

konamitech said:


> Good Luck on 150!


My mouth isn't so bad at the 125mg dose. It does sometimes get dry but it's not like a constant thing. I only use biotene like once or twice a day.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Better check your blood pressure


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

CD700 said:


> Better check your blood pressure


Just checked right now just for you.

113/70 [email protected]


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Try again 
Maybe your heart stopped and you didn't notice


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

CD700 said:


> Try again
> Maybe your heart stopped and you didn't notice


Hey joke all you want, i'm getting way less side effects on this than I got with Lexapro.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

So today at 150mg I felt pretty decent most of the day. Not super great or anything but definitely not as depressed as before. It's definitely gotten rid of the worst of the depression, my guess is that if things continue this way I should be feeling better within a week. The only side effects thus far are:

*Dry mouth: Happens intermittently throughout the day, most of the day my mouth isn't dry but there will be times when it gets really dry out of nowhere.
*Sleep loss: This has been restored using mirtazapine 15mg 2 hours prior to bed time. 
Libido decrease: I'm not yet 100% sure on this one. I do get horny if I for example go out of my way to watch porn. It's just I don't really feel the need to go watch porn, it's never on my mind. But if I do watch it things seem normal. So I guess it decreased my thirst for porn more than my libido.
*urinary delay: It does take me a bit of focus to urinate, but nothing extreme. I just need to relax and stop thinking about other stuff and just focus on the urinating itself. I'd say about up to 10 seconds delay at this point.

Here's an interesting quote from a pubmed article that mentions how TCAs work long term, it's pretty neat that they make receptors more sensitive.



> Analysis of the current literature indicates that long-term treatment with antidepressants causes adaptive changes of the serotonergic and dopaminergic systems. In particular, long-term administration of TCAs enhances the responsiveness of postsynaptic serotonin receptors to iontophoretically applied serotonin and potentiates the behavioral responses to both direct and indirect dopaminergic agonists. Repeated administration of SSRIs and MAOIs increases serotonergic transmission by desensitizing the inhibitory 5-HT1A somatodendritic and terminal 5-HT1B/1D autoreceptors
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9864076


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

Hey there guys! I´m from Sweden, so bear with me, on the english 

Interesting thread, I am also taking Anafranil, and are probably in the 3rd week of treatment. Standing on 75 mg. 

I am trying this med, because of my social anxiety, have tried every medicine known to man before (Wellbutrin, All the SSRI´s, Aurorix who is supposed to be twice as effective as SSRI´s, yeah right! Venlafaxin and so on)

So far it has been a big let-down. My SA is under some control, but is much worse than on any other drug. Was really hoping this med would help me. 

No real side effects either, just hard to sleep, as said in here before. Was really afarid of anafranil, cause it´s said to have alot of SE, but its nothing compared to venlafaxine. No real sweating problems (on venlafaxine I just had to walk 20 meters to get all wet) 

I´m gonna check this thread, as I continue to raise my dose, thing my doctor said 125 mg. So I will be back


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Cool Sleazyslay, yah best way to figure out if it works is to be on the therapeutic dose of 150mg for a month.

I should mention my appetite on this drug is really low. I ate this morning at around 7 and have not been hungry since. Even the thought of food right now just doesn't seem appealing for me.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Cool Sleazyslay, yah best way to figure out if it works is to be on the therapeutic dose of 150mg for a month.
> 
> I should mention my appetite on this drug is really low. I ate this morning at around 7 and have not been hungry since. Even the thought of food right now just doesn't seem appealing for me.


Same here, the hunger is supressed, hard time going to sleep. But I had a strange feeling yesterday, I felt really sensitive and started to cry over a small matter. Really nothing I would cry about if I stood on any medicine.

With this conclusion, and that the medicine havent given me any good effects, It just feels like I am not taking any med at all. This is the same as not eating any medicine at all for me at 75 mg.. Damn my doctor is slow to raise the dose..

Well, I will check back in here. Later guys!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Nice.

Yah I realized that when I combine propranolol with the clomipramine im taking I get the most extreme dry mouth. 2nd time this happened so now i'm definitely sure of it.

I also notice I get startled quite easily these days. Phone rings and I jump up haha.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I went shopping and I felt very confident. I'm drinking a coffee now which I probably shouldn't as it can dry out your mouth but ahh well wanted to see how I feel after it.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I notice that I feel decent in the day time but as time progresses to evening I start feeling more depressed. Obviously the drug takes 3 weeks to reach steady state for both clomipramine and desmethylclomipramine so I have varying levels of drug in my blood throughout. I take it in the morning so highest amounts are during the daytime.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> I notice that I feel decent in the day time but as time progresses to evening I start feeling more depressed. Obviously the drug takes 3 weeks to reach steady state for both clomipramine and desmethylclomipramine so I have varying levels of drug in my blood throughout. I take it in the morning so highest amounts are during the daytime.


Do you think you would benefit, of taking 1x75mg in the morning, and 1x75 mg in the evening?

I´m a bit confused, what would be best. I have to check anafranil´s half life etc. Can´t wait until I meet my doctor this week so we can go up in dose..

Later !


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

Another question though! You said the therapeutic dose was 150 mg. How high do they prescribe it to? What dose I mean, it aint that good for the body in larger doses I would think. 

On a swedish forum, I read that one guy took 225 mg, and thats pretty high. And he said that the reason, was to get to the right dose (concentration) in the blood (?) Because they checked the medicine level in the body somehow. Didnt really understand the whole thing..


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> I notice that I feel decent in the day time but as time progresses to evening I start feeling more depressed. Obviously the drug takes 3 weeks to reach steady state for both clomipramine and desmethylclomipramine so I have varying levels of drug in my blood throughout. I take it in the morning so highest amounts are during the daytime.


Sounds like good progress. How is your sleep using remeron? Zoloft is beginning to kick in for me... I'm at this point where I feel good and motivated with energy, though usually apathy hits me in 2 weeks or so. Might not, never know.

Are you having blood tests done while using clomipramine?

Keep it up my man.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sleazyslay said:


> Another question though! You said the therapeutic dose was 150 mg. How high do they prescribe it to? What dose I mean, it aint that good for the body in larger doses I would think.
> 
> On a swedish forum, I read that one guy took 225 mg, and thats pretty high. And he said that the reason, was to get to the right dose (concentration) in the blood (?) Because they checked the medicine level in the body somehow. Didnt really understand the whole thing..


The drug has a long halflife, especially its major metabolite so you only need to take it once a day. My doctor says that we can go all the way up to 300mg if needed. I hear typical is 150-250mg. But yah they can actually check your blood to see what level of the meds you have, would probably be expensive though. 150mg will give you a bit more side effects but they do go away eventually from what I have heard.



gilmourr said:


> Sounds like good progress. How is your sleep using remeron? Zoloft is beginning to kick in for me... I'm at this point where I feel good and motivated with energy, though usually apathy hits me in 2 weeks or so. Might not, never know.
> 
> Are you having blood tests done while using clomipramine?
> 
> Keep it up my man.


Sleep is good with Remeron. Though I notice that after taking this in the higher dose I do get a bit sedated about 2 hours after my dose. I typically pop it really early in the morning and go back to bed. I may even move it back to night time eventually, still thinking about it.

I'm going to be getting blood tests once I stabilize on a dose as well as an electrocardiogram to see how the heart is doing.

Cool with Zoloft helping finally, everything is looking Milhouse! Yah I hope there's no apathy on this one, though most people who have taken clomipramine didn't experience any apathy or blunting. I also may add lamictal. I heard lamictal/clomipramine is used to treat depersonalization problems. I had that initially before I started taking drugs. I've read on some depersonalization forums and the symptoms they describe seem to include things like anhedonia, so hey could be worth a try.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Man I've been super grumpy and cranky today. Just not feeling good today at all. Very irritable indeed.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Man I've been super grumpy and cranky today. Just not feeling good today at all. Very irritable indeed.


For how long have you been on 150 mg? And how long, all in all with Anafranil now?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sleazyslay said:


> For how long have you been on 150 mg? And how long, all in all with Anafranil now?


150mg only 6 days counting today. I was on it for 2 weeks mostly at 50mg. Of those 2 weeks 3 days I was on 75mg. Then I went straight to 125mg for 2 days and then 150mg. I don't think the titration is really that necessary. It could help with side effects, though I think that the side effects for these drugs are exaggerated as I'm not getting anything really bad yet. But hey may change in 2 more weeks once i'm on steady state hehe.

Today I'm not cranky and grumpy anymore. It could have been cuz I didn't poop yesterday, I totally didn't realize that. Today I started the day off with a big one.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> 150mg only 6 days counting today. I was on it for 2 weeks mostly at 50mg. Of those 2 weeks 3 days I was on 75mg. Then I went straight to 125mg for 2 days and then 150mg. I don't think the titration is really that necessary. It could help with side effects, though I think that the side effects for these drugs are exaggerated as I'm not getting anything really bad yet. But hey may change in 2 more weeks once i'm on steady state hehe.
> 
> Today I'm not cranky and grumpy anymore. It could have been cuz I didn't poop yesterday, I totally didn't realize that. Today I started the day off with a big one.


Haha , yeah that might have been the case 

Why did you wanna try out anafranil btw? No luck with SSRI´s or SNRI?

If anafranil wont work properly, what will be the next step ? And what medz have you tried before?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Maybe it wasn't the bowel emptying, just mood swings i'm getting.

I tried a bunch of meds, ssris, nassas, antipsychotics, snris, NDRIs, you name it. I also always have to use the max dose of any med to even notice anything. I figured i'd try something that was a bit more powerful and see where that goes. Next step would probably be a MAOI like Nardil or Parnate. Let's hope I don't have to.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Maybe it wasn't the bowel emptying, just mood swings i'm getting.
> 
> I tried a bunch of meds, ssris, nassas, antipsychotics, snris, NDRIs, you name it. I also always have to use the max dose of any med to even notice anything. I figured i'd try something that was a bit more powerful and see where that goes. Next step would probably be a MAOI like Nardil or Parnate. Let's hope I don't have to.


I would love to test Nardil, but that aint gonna happen.. Dont think my doctor will prescribe it.

Anyways, stepping up to 125 mg today.

The doc told me to take 75 mg in the morning, and 50 before bed.

Is this really necessary? Will it not be better to just take the 125 in the mornings? I guess I will take it as she said. Maybe is good for some reason.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sleazyslay said:


> I would love to test Nardil, but that aint gonna happen.. Dont think my doctor will prescribe it.
> 
> Anyways, stepping up to 125 mg today.
> 
> ...


Play around with it, see what works for you. I actually decided to switch to night time again. So last night I took it at night. The higher dosage is more sedating than it was on the lower one so it's not keeping me up. Granted, I'm also taking mirtazapine which makes me very sleepy hehe.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah, I´m gonna take it as she told me. Really starting to think this med is not for me. I have read about some people, that didnt get any effect at all. 

But I will give it a shot though. If there is no improvement in the next 3-4 weeks I probably will test Cymbalta. After that I have tested every medicine possible for my problems, except Nardil. 

But I have heard that it is really hard to get prescribed. That´s a real bummer for me. Really wanna start feeling well, wanna go out and search a job and live life. I really would like to study, but that scares the hell out of me.. :no

Have you noticed anything at a higher dose? Is your SA better , worse or nothing at all?


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm currently taking Clomipramine, along with a low dose of both Chlorpromazine and Flupenthixol.

I actually ended up on 300mg of Clomipramine, but decided to decrease this back to 200mg, as I wasn't convinced it was worth the extra side effects.

The main side effect, jarringly, had been sexual; I don't get nearly as much pleasure out of sex, and my sex drive has been diminished. It also takes a stupid about of time to reach orgasm now. I don't know if you've had the chance to test that out yet, but be wary of increasing the dose too high because of it.

Otherwise, it's a great drug, with lots of strong pharmacological and experience-based evidence behind it. 

For me, I can't say I noticed a huge difference above 150mg, but if you get an ECG, and your heart can take it, I see no reason to give larger doses a try.

Hope this helps in some way.


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

Sleazyslay said:


> After that I have tested every medicine possible for my problems, except Nardil.


I only ever had fairly mild Social Anxiety, but my God, Nardil kicked me into a social overdrive. In the end, high doses caused crippling sexual dysfunction and (more importantly) severe hypotension.

But seriously, don't lose hope until you've tried Nardil. It is an exceptional drug. There are very good reasons it still remains in production, after all these years!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

VERBW said:


> I'm currently taking Clomipramine, along with a low dose of both Chlorpromazine and Flupenthixol.
> 
> I actually ended up on 300mg of Clomipramine, but decided to decrease this back to 200mg, as I wasn't convinced it was worth the extra side effects.
> 
> ...


Yah today I actually felt better than the rest of the days. I was also able to focus better when reading. My libido is normal if I go look at porn or something, everything looks to be functioning normally there. It's just I never actually am in the mood to even go look at it. It's like sex has become super low priority. In the past I would just get in the mood randomly or see something that would get me in the mood and make me pursue it further. Nothing like that happens now. It's a compromise i'm willing to make though to feel better. I'm not in a relationship but at least I have functioning parts that would be able to satisfy my partner if I was.

Either way i'll give 150mg the full 6-8 weeks. I have read some anecdotes of people taking as long as 8 weeks to see results.

@sleazyslay yah I noticed when I was at the grocery store I was much more confident. You have to give it 8 weeks on the full 150mg dose, if you can handle the side effects. Then you can say you truly tried the drug.

Man do I get startled easily on this drug. Like someone walks into the room i'm in and I just jump out of my seat. haha

It may be because it's improving my focus. like usually i'm very aware of my surroundings but I think on this drug if I get into something i'll focus on it strongly without knowing what is happening around me. Probably the norepinephrine.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Not bad full remission in 70%.



> *ABSTRACT* Eighty-one panic disorder patients with or without agoraphobia were treated with flexible doses of clomipramine under single-blind conditions. Fifty-seven (70.3%) reached operational criteria for full remission in 16.2 +/- 6.5 weeks, with a mean dose of 89.1 +/- 8.2 mg/day. Fifty-four (81%) of them received a continuous post-remission maintenance treatment at full doses of clomipramine for 4-6 months. No patient relapsed during the clomipramine maintenance phase. Their medication was then tappered and discontinued with placebo substitution under double-blind conditions. Fifty-one (63%) patients were followed-up until relapse or recurrence for up to 3 years, with periodic assessments. Three different outcome groups were identified: the first (n = 19, 19; 37.2%) experienced an early/immediate relapse (5.2 +/- 4.9 weeks after drug discontinuation); the second group (n = 22, 22; 43.1%) experienced recurrence after 42.9 +/- 35 weeks following discontinuation; and the third group (n = 10, 10; 19.6%) remained assymptomatic and functionally well throughout the follow-up. Predictors of early relapse were: (1) higher baseline score in the Beck Depression Inventory; (2) higher global score on the phobic avoidance scale after the full remission criteria; and (3) the need for higher clomipramine doses to reach full remission. The need for long-term or intermittent maintenance for most patients is emphasized.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I felt pretty good this morning from a mood perspective, that did dwindle down a bit approaching to evening. My anhedonia is still horrible. I mean even sweet pastries/chocolates that I enjoyed while on zyprexa/Effexor don't even give me any reward. Obviously too early to tell but I will probably be making the jump to Nardil or Selegiline if things don't improve.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Can you get nardil ?
Why even stuff around with this other junk ?


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

What's stronger selegiline or moclobemid? What's so special about selegiline?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

CD700 said:


> Can you get nardil ?
> Why even stuff around with this other junk ?


Dietary restrictions. If I can get something that doesn't need it, then why bother? Plus Nardil is well known for hypotension which I don't know if I could handle. Obviously it's an individual quirk, but I had an order of how I will try things and Nardil is next on my list 



T800 said:


> What's stronger selegiline or moclobemid? What's so special about selegiline?


Selegiline is much stronger it's an irreversible mao-b inhibitor, moa-a in higher doses. Moclobemide is a reversible mao, totally different world. The mao-b part keeps it from breaking down pea which is said to increase dopamine levels. But seems Nardil does a good job with dopamine too.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm probably going to jinx it by writing it here, but I feel really good this morning. Drinking coffee, reading news and just feeling content. I also woke up super early today, though I did get 8 hours of sleep, uninterrupted.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

Hmm.. I am really confused. I take 125 mg now, on the second day. 

Sweating alot, and I think its because of anafranil. Not even close to sweating as much as on venlafaxine though.. 

Even if I will feel pretty good on this med, it´s for social anxiety I am eating it for. Havent improved at all there. Cant say I have had any good effect so far. 

If this goes down the drain, I have tested every medicine for SA. Except Nardil and Cymbalta. 

Probably will test out Cymbalta, otherwise it´s back to Escitalopram. Wont be motivated for anything in life, but the SA will be pretty under control. Damnit, I had so much faith in this med.. Thought it really would be different from the SSRI´s. 

Cant really evaluate it so far, but if I will sweat more from this medication, it really doesnt work for me, that just make more stressed..


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

It doesnt seem that there is any medication out there, that makes me more active and interested of making a change in my life. It´s like the SA got me, and I am thinking that there is no idea to try something, because I feel like cant accomplish things with social anxiety.. 

I skipped alot of classes in high school, jumped off "college"? Dont know what its called over there. But I guess thats probably the same. 

Anyways, my problems started when I was 13 so.. I guess I probably can give up the idea of a functioning life. Sorry guys, just feeling a bit depressed. Clomipramine so far is a big let down.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

I would give the clomipramine time. I feel it sort of starting to work. These drugs do take time you know. If sweating is a deal breaker for you I suggest adding propranolol to the mix, this should control the sweat.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

My libido seems to have climbed up today. 

Also I realized I haven't had a bowel movement in 2 days. I don't know if it's because of the fact that i'm not eating much (low appetite) or just the drug in general.

I'm also debating whether I should be putting the time into Nardil. I have been doing a lot of research on it and it doesn't seem that bad and may even help anhedonia. I guess i'll give clomipramine another 2 weeks. Only thing is that if it doesn't work out for me then I could have used the 2 weeks to flush it out of my system for Nardil. But then there's the issue that my doctor and I haven't discussed Nardil yet, so even if I flushed it out she may still reject it. Ahhh!


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

I wonder if you assume that dopamine would help you then why don't you try something like ritalin + ssri or snri or wellbutrin?
This would still be safer than a maoi. I also wonder what's stronger in boosting dopamine ritalin or a maoi? I'd assume ritalin cause otherwise they could as well give maoi to people with adhd. 

Or you could also try adderall + ssri this would be more hardcore than ritalin + ssri but i'd try ritalin first.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

T800 said:


> I wonder if you assume that dopamine would help you then why don't you try something like ritalin + ssri or snri or wellbutrin?
> This would still be safer than a maoi. I also wonder what's stronger in boosting dopamine ritalin or a maoi? I'd assume ritalin cause otherwise they could as well give maoi to people with adhd.
> 
> Or you could also try adderall + ssri this would be more hardcore than ritalin + ssri but i'd try ritalin first.


Yah but I would prefer tonic dopamine levels to dopamine release. The forced dopamine release causes downregulation of receptors, hence the tolerance. But tonic levels are likely to spark other changes much like ssri's do to serotonin receptors. So for me MAOI is probably the best solution. And I don't claim dopamine is my issue, but if I target all 3 then whatever my issue is, it's more likely to be helped this way.

Honestly all the science stuff just keeps you sane I guess. Keeps your hope alive. But in reality we have no clue what's going on in our heads.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Alright guys I made the decision. I'm going cold turkey off clomipramine. I don't know if I'll even get the Nardil, but I see my doctor in a week, might as well have a week to flush out the drug and then only have to wait 1 more week after my appointment. I'm going to tell her that the dry mouth was so bad I couldn't handle the drug.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hmm maybe I'll stick with clomipramine and first talk it over with the doctor. I wouldn't want to rush it. Maybe i'll print out ken gillmans maoi pdf to bring with me.

I'm a bit disheartened by this thread in particular: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...andard-for-treatment-of-social-anxiety-82297/

Even the guys who are all for Nardil couldn't stand the side effects and quit many times. And there's even discussion of being severely tired/anhedonic.

Great, in Canada Nardil is only produced by ERFA as brand name, there is no generic. It probably costs an arm and a leg since they have a monopoly on it. 

Anyways, today I feel a bit anxious and not as good as yesterday. I noticed since last night I started getting a weird effect that when i'm sitting sometimes my ab muscles contract and it causes me to move involuntarily. Hopefully it's not a sign of TD.

What I think i'll do is add lamictal first. I'll ask my pharmacist how much Nardil would cost. I don't want to convince my doctor, go on it and then come back and tell her its too expensive. I did that with memantine haha.

EDIT: Just finished that thread. Wow that's a long term recording of nardil experiences right there. Most people had an awesome experience at the beginning but as time goes on the nardil stops working and side effects take over. I think a lot of people experience hypomania with it and it eventually dies down. In fact someone posted a study within the thread that showed the majority of users getting hypomania as a side effect.

Edit: Come to think of it i'm definitely not going to look at it from a price perspective now. I can always recoup my savings once i'm out of the depression. So i'm still going to try for Nardil at my appointment this week.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> I'm a bit disheartened by this thread in particular: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...andard-for-treatment-of-social-anxiety-82297/
> 
> Even the guys who are all for Nardil couldn't stand the side effects and quit many times. And there's even discussion of being severely tired/anhedonic.
> 
> EDIT: Just finished that thread. Wow that's a long term recording of nardil experiences right there. Most people had an awesome experience at the beginning but as time goes on the nardil stops working and side effects take over. I think a lot of people experience hypomania with it and it eventually dies down. In fact someone posted a study within the thread that showed the majority of users getting hypomania as a side effect.


The tiredness definitely goes away, but it takes over a month. Amhedonic; I'm more motivated and energetic than ever before, i want to do stuff all the time!

Also, the hypomania usually unleashes its fangs at the start of treatment, or after one has used Nardil for a long time, a dosage decrease almost always removes it. One just have to be perceptive about one's own actions/thoughts.

I've been using Nardil for a long time, and alternating dosage between high and low keeps it running efficient. And as you know all side-effects are individual, some can handle 'em, some can't.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah but I would prefer tonic dopamine levels to dopamine release. The forced dopamine release causes downregulation of receptors, hence the tolerance. But tonic levels are likely to spark other changes much like ssri's do to serotonin receptors.


In Stark's 2013 psychopharmacology he has a few pics and comparisons between instant ritalin and time-released ritalin. Instant ritalin causes fast release while time-released causes tonic dopamine release. So that's not really an argument against it you could simply get a really long lasting MPH drug. MPH also doesn't force a DA release afaik it only affects the reputake.

Atomoxetine supposedly also causes tonic release of NE and DA. I was offered it but it has a bad rep of suicidality so I dont really want to try this stuff.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Hmm maybe I'll stick with clomipramine and first talk it over with the doctor. I wouldn't want to rush it. Maybe i'll print out ken gillmans maoi pdf to bring with me.
> 
> I'm a bit disheartened by this thread in particular: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...andard-for-treatment-of-social-anxiety-82297/
> 
> ...


I just got prescribed canadian nardil (erfa) and the cost is not that bad compared to some of the other expensive drugs i have been on. I think you are looking at $450 a year if you are taking 45 mg, and i guess if its 60mg, probably around $550. Thats less than two bucks a day which is fine with me to keep my sanity. I'm still doing the washout period for lexapro , will soon update you guys with a journal


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I just got prescribed canadian nardil (erfa) and the cost is not that bad compared to some of the other expensive drugs i have been on. I think you are looking at $450 a year if you are taking 45 mg, and i guess if its 60mg, probably around $550. Thats less than two bucks a day which is fine with me to keep my sanity. I'm still doing the washout period for lexapro , will soon update you guys with a journal


Sweet! What part of Canada are you in?

The pharmacy had it on hand without needing to order it?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Sweet! What part of Canada are you in?
> 
> The pharmacy had it on hand without needing to order it?


From vancouver, actually they only had one bottle on hand which is 60 pills so i had to wait to pick up the rest. Will start it in a few days and will do a journal for rest to see , am hoping this is the med that can finally help.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> From vancouver, actually they only had one bottle on hand which is 60 pills so i had to wait to pick up the rest. Will start it in a few days and will do a journal for rest to see , am hoping this is the med that can finally help.


Did you have to do anything special to get it prescribed? Bring any literature? beg? haha


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

i didn't even know this psychiatrist, but had heard good things about him. Didn't wanna waste money going there for no reason, wrote him a long email explaining what I have already taken and that nothing has helped me in the last few years. I told the truth (i'm treatment resistant) and that I have read the studies and the dangers of MAOI's and food and drug interactions and I will pose no liability to him. He then asked me to go to his office and he ended up being the nicest psychiatrist I have ever seen! seriously, almost all of the ex psychiatrist played God and were pricks, this one was very patient and a good listener. I guess all that is left is whether Nardil will be the answer. If they don't give it to your for one ridiculous reason or another and you are planning to come to B.C. i will pass u his info, but then your medical coverage won't cover any of the cost since your out of the province. I will keep my fingers crossed for ya, hopefully your pdoc will prescribe it


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

Hmm, have stood on 125 mg´s now. And I cant really say if Anafranil helps me at all. No real side-effects, but I dont feel like anything is fun, dont really wanna do stuff, just listen to music and be at the computer. Feel pretty sad also. 

I hate to feel like a victim, but it could probably be a side-effect of the change of dose. You guys said 150 mg + is needed. 

This med is not better than Escitalopram in my case. I really just could drop this and start with that over, but I will ask for cymbalta. Then I know there is no med out there, that REALLY works, but helps though.. Nardil is hard to get, I have had substance abuse problems in my past, and the doc wont prescribe it I believe.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah I gave up on it. It definitely doesn't seem as strong as its made out to be. I've had quicker/better response from ssri combos. I'm doing the washout now for a MAOI, providing my doctor agrees hah.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

What if those maoi don't work what next heroin? Isn't there a 20 percent death rate with maoi and people thought marijauna was bad lol.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

GotAnxiety said:


> What if those maoi don't work what next heroin? Isn't there a 20 percent death rate with maoi and people thought marijauna was bad lol.


Well, I have responded to meds before so I don't see myself as being completely helpless. Marijuana does help a bit but makes me super anxious/paranoid and extremely lazy, doesn't matter what strand indica or sativa. Sativas were a bit better though, made me less lazy. So yah I've had more luck with meds than marijuana. And MAOIs aren't as bad as you think. You're all against big pharma, but you know it is big pharma that gave MAOis a bad name, they did it so they can promote their newer patented drugs.


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

It's a shame Clomipramine didn't work out for you. 150mg is not a huge dose of it; if you felt it starting to work, you could have pushed for 200mg. 300mg is pretty much the maximum, although in theory, you can take as much as you like, up until the point it starts affecting your heart ; )

Phenelzine's a great drug, actually just posted about it in another thread. Of all the medication I've been on, Phenelzine is by far my favourite. I actually ditched it in favour for Clomipramine (which works better for me as an AD), but only because side effects were unfavourable. This was only at 75-90mg - at 30-45mg, Phenelzine is a peach.


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## T800 (Jun 13, 2013)

GotAnxiety said:


> What if those maoi don't work what next heroin?


Are you crazy??!

Before heroin there's still cocaine. Safety first.


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah, I will talk to my doctor. Don´t she likes the idea of boosting the dose to high in my case. Havent had any real side effects except finding it hard to sleep at night, and I take em in the morning. 

So, I will either max out the dose, or switch to Cipralex again.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

have you seen your doc yet keH? hoping you get a very early christmas gift!


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Well, I have responded to meds before so I don't see myself as being completely helpless. Marijuana does help a bit but makes me super anxious/paranoid and extremely lazy, doesn't matter what strand indica or sativa. Sativas were a bit better though, made me less lazy. So yah I've had more luck with meds than marijuana. And MAOIs aren't as bad as you think. You're all against big pharma, but you know it is big pharma that gave MAOis a bad name, they did it so they can promote their newer patented drugs.


Well I wish you the best of luck friend, Sounds like big pharm did the same thing to benzo's so they can promote newer drug's. Make it more difficult to get old ones. Stimulants are kinda protected not to much competition in that catagory.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> have you seen your doc yet keH? hoping you get a very early christmas gift!


I don't see her till Saturday hehe. Definitely need to prep for that. I have a feeling she won't like the idea of a MAOI. But who knows TCAs are apparently more dangerious and she gave me that.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> I don't see her till Saturday hehe. Definitely need to prep for that. I have a feeling she won't like the idea of a MAOI. But who knows TCAs are apparently more dangerious and she gave me that.


I hope she will prescribe it for you bud. I would suggest you make an email and send it to as many pdocs in the area explaining your situation and how you have tried so many different meds and have not responded. Ask them if in their practice they have prescribed a MAOI's and if so, they are willing to listen to your case. I wouldn't ask them over email if they would prescribe it to you, just kinda say all I like to know is whether they believe in them as a last resort and if they are willing to listen to your case. Thats what I did and got a response. Hope it works out for you soon


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## zendog78 (Jan 27, 2010)

I have just started on Clonipramime 
I have a pretty significant OCD component so I am hoping it is going to help.

Nardil has such a fantastic effect but it is just impossible to live with long term.
I quit it 6 months ago and have lost 12KG in that time.

Fat, bloated, sexually dysfunctional, rock hard bowels, postural hypotension, Urinary hesitation (this was the biggest thing that stopped me getting over 75mg)

Nardil just has too many trade offs, I think it can be worthwhile as a short term thing (under 8 months), to take while getting therapy. 

Otherwise meh


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## zendog78 (Jan 27, 2010)

bradfairway said:


> I hope she will prescribe it for you bud. I would suggest you make an email and send it to as many pdocs in the area explaining your situation and how you have tried so many different meds and have not responded. Ask them if in their practice they have prescribed a MAOI's and if so, they are willing to listen to your case. I wouldn't ask them over email if they would prescribe it to you, just kinda say all I like to know is whether they believe in them as a last resort and if they are willing to listen to your case. Thats what I did and got a response. Hope it works out for you soon


No non psychiatrist will start you on nardil - get a new doctor and tell them you are already on it OR tell your current doctor that you used to take it


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

zendog78 said:


> I have just started on Clonipramime
> I have a pretty significant OCD component so I am hoping it is going to help.
> 
> Nardil has such a fantastic effect but it is just impossible to live with long term.
> ...


This seems to be so common with nardil. Even all the reviews on askapatient, everyone who loves it still complains of those side effects. Most of them are just dealing with the side effects.


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## zendog78 (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah, it makes you feel better than anything, it is actually slightly euphoric, I got eye wiggles sometimes when upping the dose, just like you do on MDMA (ecstasy).

But again, it is just too hard to live with - gaining 30lbs despite NEVER eating junk food or soda.
I exercised most days strenuously but all that did was slow it down. The huge bloating made me look even fatter, I looked pregnant and wobbled when I walked. I'm a guy

Constantly farting, constantly ravenous for food, waking up overnight because your hungry even though you ate right before bed.. and when your hungry, it is like you are sick with hunger, as if your blood sugar is really low (when its not).

BUT

If you are in a huge hole, housebound, raging panic attacks, phobias, depression and anxiety (like I was) then go for it, because it can rapidly turn your life around and get things going again.
Once you can think properly again then you can make some good decisions about what you want to do. 

I know when I am sick, I don't realise how bad I am and how long it has been bad for until I take meds and feel what its like to be well again.

I hate taking medications but I think they will be with me on and off for the rest of my life


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## Sleazyslay (Feb 14, 2013)

zendog78 said:


> Yeah, it makes you feel better than anything, it is actually slightly euphoric, I got eye wiggles sometimes when upping the dose, just like you do on MDMA (ecstasy).
> 
> But again, it is just too hard to live with - gaining 30lbs despite NEVER eating junk food or soda.
> I exercised most days strenuously but all that did was slow it down. The huge bloating made me look even fatter, I looked pregnant and wobbled when I walked. I'm a guy
> ...


Just curious.. But what dose did you take of anafranil/clomipramine? I felt nothing at 125 mg.. No real side-effects either. I have never taken an antidepressant that gave zero effect before. Except buspiron, but thats not really an anti-dep though..


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## zendog78 (Jan 27, 2010)

I have only been on it a couple of weeks and am on 50mg a day - I feel better.

My problems are particularly severe and it is well known that these drugs seem to have a more noticeable effect on "sicker" people - maybe thats it?

Or could just be biology 

So far, it hasnt made me super personable like nardil, but it has taken the horrible fear and anxiety and obsessive thoughts away - feel like things are going ok


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sleazyslay said:


> Just curious.. But what dose did you take of anafranil/clomipramine? I felt nothing at 125 mg.. No real side-effects either. I have never taken an antidepressant that gave zero effect before. Except buspiron, but thats not really an anti-dep though..


Some people need a lot more. It could be an issue with bioavailability, not absorbing much of the drug, etc. I mean with TCA's if you don't feel dry mouth then you must not be getting enough. These drugs are highly anticholinergic and should be at least giving you some dry mouth if there's enough in your blood.


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

I think Clomipramine is an odd drug; it is supposedly one of the most powerful SRIs, and its major metabolite is a very high potency NRI.

You would think that low doses of the drug would be needed, and for some people, they are fine on very low doses of 50mg or less. But for some people, much higher doses are needed.

That doesn't add much to the conversation, but if you're not feeling any side effects, it may be worth increasing the dose to 250mg (or higher)


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## adidasman (Feb 27, 2015)

I have been on Amitriptyline for nearly eight years and my treatment team suggested cross-tapering it with Clomipramine, since they are both TCA's and the effects should not be too devastating. Starting with 25mg last night I expected the worst as I always lose sleep for the first month on a new med. Except last night I slept the whole night through without waking ONCE, a first for ANY anti-depressant. I am expecting worse effects over the next four weeks, will take it one day at a time but am quite positive about the results so far. Two thumbs up for Clomipramine!


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

adidasman said:


> I have been on Amitriptyline for nearly eight years and my treatment team suggested cross-tapering it with Clomipramine, since they are both TCA's and the effects should not be too devastating. Starting with 25mg last night I expected the worst as I always lose sleep for the first month on a new med. Except last night I slept the whole night through without waking ONCE, a first for ANY anti-depressant. I am expecting worse effects over the next four weeks, will take it one day at a time but am quite positive about the results so far. Two thumbs up for Clomipramine!


Good to hear it works for you. I'm not at all enthusiastic about trying it for my OCD. I know a woman, now 51, who's used Anafranil at various times over the last 30 years and last year she gave up on it after a little while yet again because the side effects were intolerable. She has to wear a wig due to compulsive hair pulling, though it seems being a bald lady still tops TCA side effects. Not hard for me to imagine after my hellish trial of imipramine a decade ago, by far the worst AD I've ever had the misfortune of meeting.


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## adidasman (Feb 27, 2015)

Been over four weeks now and now on 100mg. I can honestly say Clomipramine worked pretty much straight away for me with only anorgasmia and decreased libido. I persevered and kept positive and it looks like those side effects are wearing off for me as those senses are increasing by the day now. I really needed this success story in my life as I've been living in new-antidepressant-required denial for many years and a med has saved me once again. I have lived in the shadows, shy and full of doubt for years just denying myself of a life and settling with it. I tried everything possible with my job to maintain a healthy and relaxing life including gym, diet etc and I'm disappointed to say it didn't work. Clomipramine has saved my ***. I know these meds won't work for everyone but if you suffer SSRI problems then I recommend trying TCA's as they really seem to have been the success story of my life. Even Amitriptyline worked for me with similar side effects which wore off after a short while.


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