# Mid 30s and no progress in life



## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

Feeling like time has stopped after graduating uni in my early 20s. No progress since then. No motivation. All I want to do is to keep hiding in the house. I avoid friends or meeting new people like a plague fearing that they would ask the infamous questions like what I do for a living, etc. Also at this age they talk about marriage, owning properties, cars which I don't have the interest/motivation to talk about, let alone achieve them.


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## hypestyle (Nov 12, 2003)

well, I'm 46 now, and... well, I feel the same way. I don't want to live in the city i'm in, but I also nearly never get interviews for all the jobs I apply for. I apply for jobs in-town out of town, and out of state. Dozens every month, at minimum. No traction. No job offers. Always just email notes about "thanks but no thanks".
I have two college degrees and I have yet to secure a job that requires a bachelor's degree.
I keep being tempted to apply for a local apartment but my income is not quite comfortable to afford rent.


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## sandisc (Feb 29, 2020)

My biggest regret is studying science at university. I spent 3 years doing a bachelors degree and I did so well that they offered me a place on a funded masters degree. I did that for another year. What a waste of time and stress.



I should have studied something useful like medicine, nursing, electrician etc. I could kick myself.


I have savings in the bank and I am resigned to the fact that I will have to "re-train".


When I look back, I can see all the things I did wrong. I was far, far too timid and didn't socialise. I didn't take any risks and do the things I wanted to do. My friends were too geeky. I didn't approach girls enough.



No time like the present though, I suppose. I run as a hobby and started volunteering at local events. I have told my parents that I will tide myself over with a retail job for now and do some classroom assistant work. My parents are nagging me to get a car. 



I often feel completely lost if I'm honest.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

jim11 said:


> Feeling like time has stopped after graduating uni in my early 20s. No progress since then. No motivation. All I want to do is to keep hiding in the house. I avoid friends or meeting new people like a plague fearing that they would ask the infamous questions like what I do for a living, etc. Also at this age they talk about marriage, owning properties, cars which I don't have the interest/motivation to talk about, let alone achieve them.


If you haven't yet, I think you should take medication to alleviate SA, then you would at least start getting out of the house more often for a start. Take one step at a time!


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## flykiwi (Jul 18, 2011)

Same...Im 30, live at home, and work in a call center. Ive been trapped as a caregiver for my dad, and now mom my whole life. We're poor. I don't even have a car.


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## The Patriot (Nov 15, 2012)

I can relate to being mid 30's (34) currently and having no direction in my life, no goals, no ambition, my life is just where it is. By now I have only achieved, graduating high school, being a black belt, having 1 job I failed at, having 2 relationships, 1 which I failed at and the other is nowhere near where I thought it would be. I don't have my own place, a car, a stable job, I'm just wondering through life. 


I feel like a failure in life, still living at home, taking care of my parents, cleaning, drinking. So I can relate, I'm the same, I have 2 friends now (my current GF) being one and my friend Paul, and I have nothing worthwhile to show in my life,I am too scared to meet new people for the very same reason you are, I'm afraid they are going to ask me what I do. 

I wish you success and hope things do improve for you but I don't feel like I have any hope of it happening for me


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## The Patriot (Nov 15, 2012)

flykiwi said:


> Same...Im 30, live at home, and work in a call center. Ive been trapped as a caregiver for my dad, and now mom my whole life. We're poor. I don't even have a car.


 I'm also a caregiver for my grandma and mom, I clean, (don't cook) do laundry, grocery shop, make sure we have what's needed. Its hard but I wanted to say, I feel what you're going through and to let you know you're a diamond in the rough, can only imagine how grateful your parents are, at least I hope they are for all you've done for them, especially being poor. Don't drive either,


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## FloridaGuy48 (Jun 30, 2014)

jim11 said:


> Feeling like time has stopped after graduating uni in my early 20s. No progress since then. No motivation. All I want to do is to keep hiding in the house. I avoid friends or meeting new people like a plague fearing that they would ask the infamous questions like what I do for a living, etc. Also at this age they talk about marriage, owning properties, cars which I don't have the interest/motivation to talk about, let alone achieve them.


How old are you now? The college age years and your 20's where you are just starting your career are tough and confusing times for a lot of people. Do you have a job at all right now? What do you do job wise?

My advice is you have to start setting small goals. Careers goals, social goals and financial goals. Physical fitness goals as well. Dont worry if your behind other people. You want to be the best version of you that you can be. We all have different issues and struggles we have to deal with.

Motivation can be tough so like I said set small goals. Set a specific goal each day. Apply for x number of jobs. Hit the gym or workout x times per week and try to start conversations with people x times per day or week. Do that you will look back a year from now and see you made some great progress. Write your goals down really helps as well you dont want to just want them in your head.


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## Khyle785 (Nov 5, 2004)

I'm in a similar tangle. Covid19 crisis has messed up plans even more for me I'd say. I was doing okay, had a weekend job, which then shut down. I am now unemployd, I live with husband and 2 children. But I'm not building on my job experience. I was also, on top of the weekend job, a head chair of an art show (this year had to be virtual) that is held once a year. I have to manage the committees and it is all volunteer. I literally fall sick before a meeting where I have to speak in front of 40 people or so. I accepted teh position because like you I am 34 years old and have not landed a "career job" yet. My weekend job was a salon as receptionist/front desk person. Not good pay and not that interesting. I really want a job as a web designer/developer. And again, now with covid19 everyone is after same work from home positions. Too much competition and I look awful to be out of the work force too long , not even ever having much experience in my chosen field. Ugh.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

You talk about a lack of motivation. Do you really have no motivation for anything at all?


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

hypestyle said:


> well, I'm 46 now, and... well, I feel the same way. I don't want to live in the city i'm in, but I also nearly never get interviews for all the jobs I apply for. I apply for jobs in-town out of town, and out of state. Dozens every month, at minimum. No traction. No job offers. Always just email notes about "thanks but no thanks".
> I have two college degrees and I have yet to secure a job that requires a bachelor's degree.
> I keep being tempted to apply for a local apartment but my income is not quite comfortable to afford rent.


I got invited for most of the position I applied for but I never get passed the interview. I just sit at home now afraid to face the society because according to a society, a normal grown up must work a job, otherwise, he is abnormal.



sandisc said:


> My biggest regret is studying science at university. I spent 3 years doing a bachelors degree and I did so well that they offered me a place on a funded masters degree. I did that for another year. What a waste of time and stress.
> 
> I should have studied something useful like medicine, nursing, electrician etc. I could kick myself.
> 
> ...


Yup too timid and afraid to socialise are two of my many problems. I went for funded postgrad studies as well but I never regretted or getting stressed out of it. I was actually enjoy it because I can do the research on my own pace and my advisors are quite supportive in my research.



NotFullyHere said:


> If you haven't yet, I think you should take medication to alleviate SA, then you would at least start getting out of the house more often for a start. Take one step at a time!


To be honest, I don't know where to get help. Mental issues are not something we openly to about here, unfortunately.



flykiwi said:


> Same...Im 30, live at home, and work in a call center. Ive been trapped as a caregiver for my dad, and now mom my whole life. We're poor. I don't even have a car.


I got myself a pre-owned car a couple of years ago. My mom helped me to pay 30% of the total cost of the car. Of course, till these days I haven't pay back my mom.



The Patriot said:


> I can relate to being mid 30's (34) currently and having no direction in my life, no goals, no ambition, my life is just where it is. By now I have only achieved, graduating high school, being a black belt, having 1 job I failed at, having 2 relationships, 1 which I failed at and the other is nowhere near where I thought it would be. I don't have my own place, a car, a stable job, I'm just wondering through life.
> 
> I feel like a failure in life, still living at home, taking care of my parents, cleaning, drinking. So I can relate, I'm the same, I have 2 friends now (my current GF) being one and my friend Paul, and I have nothing worthwhile to show in my life,I am too scared to meet new people for the very same reason you are, I'm afraid they are going to ask me what I do.
> 
> I wish you success and hope things do improve for you but I don't feel like I have any hope of it happening for me


Thank you. But I don't feel like there's hope. Anything that could go wrong will go wrong for me eventually.



chrisinmd said:


> How old are you now? The college age years and your 20's where you are just starting your career are tough and confusing times for a lot of people. Do you have a job at all right now? What do you do job wise?
> 
> My advice is you have to start setting small goals. Careers goals, social goals and financial goals. Physical fitness goals as well. Dont worry if your behind other people. You want to be the best version of you that you can be. We all have different issues and struggles we have to deal with.
> 
> Motivation can be tough so like I said set small goals. Set a specific goal each day. Apply for x number of jobs. Hit the gym or workout x times per week and try to start conversations with people x times per day or week. Do that you will look back a year from now and see you made some great progress. Write your goals down really helps as well you dont want to just want them in your head.


I'm now 36. To be honest, I'm kind of give up finding job. My last application was in March. Went to the interview and of course, as always, got rejected.



Khyle785 said:


> I'm in a similar tangle. Covid19 crisis has messed up plans even more for me I'd say. I was doing okay, had a weekend job, which then shut down. I am now unemployd, I live with husband and 2 children. But I'm not building on my job experience. I was also, on top of the weekend job, a head chair of an art show (this year had to be virtual) that is held once a year. I have to manage the committees and it is all volunteer. I literally fall sick before a meeting where I have to speak in front of 40 people or so. I accepted teh position because like you I am 34 years old and have not landed a "career job" yet. My weekend job was a salon as receptionist/front desk person. Not good pay and not that interesting. I really want a job as a web designer/developer. And again, now with covid19 everyone is after same work from home positions. Too much competition and I look awful to be out of the work force too long , not even ever having much experience in my chosen field. Ugh.


I'm not downplaying your struggles but it sounds like you're miles ahead of me. You also sounds like a brave and responsible person for yourself, your partner and kids.



Lisa said:


> You talk about a lack of motivation. Do you really have no motivation for anything at all?


Yes as if I got no hope left. Why even try right? The best I can do is to feel sorry for myself.

If memory serves me right, aren't you the one who went for postgrad as well? Did you further phd?


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## sandisc1 (Oct 2, 2020)

sandisc said:


> My biggest regret is studying science at university. I spent 3 years doing a bachelors degree and I did so well that they offered me a place on a funded masters degree. I did that for another year. What a waste of time and stress.
> 
> I should have studied something useful like medicine, nursing, electrician etc. I could kick myself.
> 
> ...


Interesting to see my post from 7 months ago.

The volunteer work didn't improve anything. I volunteered at a number of community running events but I quit after a while because it was always the same clique of older people and it felt boring and pointless. I started running a lot more though, 30-40 miles a week and am a lot fitter than before. However I am also bored of running around my local area.

I took refresher driving lessons and I am much better than I was previously, which was a surprise.

Still unemployed. Like you I haven't applied for jobs in months. I kind of gave up. I have however applied for medical school. I sat the gamsat admissions test and have to write my personal statement.

My experience of academic study was not good. The tutors couldn't care less and some of them didn't even reply when I wanted a reference. I did physics and then a masters in nuclear science. So far these degrees have done jack **** for me.


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## Myosr (Apr 8, 2016)

Similar state. Except I already lost all my friends, so no one really cares to ask me about this stuff. And family knows I'm pretty damaged.

I feel like during uni, life was a lot easier, so many people to choose to associate with or not. Too much free time, etc. I didn't realize how fast things would change after grad.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

sandisc1 said:


> Interesting to see my post from 7 months ago.
> 
> The volunteer work didn't improve anything. I volunteered at a number of community running events but I quit after a while because it was always the same clique of older people and it felt boring and pointless. I started running a lot more though, 30-40 miles a week and am a lot fitter than before. However I am also bored of running around my local area.
> 
> ...


No improvement for me either. Seriously, I don't know where you got that energy to do the volunteer work and working out. I've none. Everything feels like a drag.

It's good to see you try to enter a different field. It's certainly not easy for those not comfortable with change.

I did my PhD knowing that I will be going nowhere with it. Not sure that piece of paper is a blessing or curse. It looks like a hindrance for sure.



Myosr said:


> Similar state. Except I already lost all my friends, so no one really cares to ask me about this stuff. And family knows I'm pretty damaged.
> 
> I feel like during uni, life was a lot easier, so many people to choose to associate with or not. Too much free time, etc. I didn't realize how fast things would change after grad.


I've lost all my friends too. But most of the time I feel good hiding alone without having to update social medias every minute.


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## Myosr (Apr 8, 2016)

jim11 said:


> I've lost all my friends too. But most of the time I feel good hiding alone without having to update social medias every minute.


Yeah, hiding does feel better honestly. I remember in like ~ 2012 my last few friends from uni kept calling me every time they went out and I made excuses every time. They knew I didn't want to be with them, they just didn't know why and I wouldn't tell them. Just let them fade away.

I still sometimes receive FB messages from old 'friends', sometimes I respond, sometimes I ignore. I'm never really sure what's the right thing to do with them. I hate faking stuff, and pretty much all everyone does on FB and stuff seems fake to me or just designed by an evil god to make me feel bad about my life, lol. I feel like every photo or 'update' people post is preceded with "LOOK AT ME DOING THIS COOL THING AND SMILING WHILE I DO IT  "

I donno. I'm just a bitter old person maybe :roll


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

Myosr said:


> Yeah, hiding does feel better honestly. I remember in like ~ 2012 my last few friends from uni kept calling me every time they went out and I made excuses every time. They knew I didn't want to be with them, they just didn't know why and I wouldn't tell them. Just let them fade away.
> 
> I still sometimes receive FB messages from old 'friends', sometimes I respond, sometimes I ignore. I'm never really sure what's the right thing to do with them. I hate faking stuff, and pretty much all everyone does on FB and stuff seems fake to me or just designed by an evil god to make me feel bad about my life, lol. I feel like every photo or 'update' people post is preceded with "LOOK AT ME DOING THIS COOL THING AND SMILING WHILE I DO IT  "
> 
> I donno. I'm just a bitter old person maybe :roll


The last person ever contacted me was my uni friend about a year ago. It was through email because I don't use social media. She wanted to catch up but I never reply it. Kinda feel bad about it but I do not wish people to know that I don't have any progress in life after uni. It's embarrassing.


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## Myosr (Apr 8, 2016)

jim11 said:


> The last person ever contacted me was my uni friend about a year ago. It was through email because I don't use social media. She wanted to catch up but I never reply it. Kinda feel bad about it but I do not wish people to know that I don't have any progress in life after uni. It's embarrassing.


I think it depends on the person contacting you. Sometimes it can be someone who likes your company and just wants to get in touch, other times people like to collect 'data' about how everyone's doing just to make sure they are "above average" or something I donno. :roll (It's a really annoying feeling, especially if people aren't self-aware of it)

You really have to ask yourself if you like the person's company or not, did you enjoy your time with them, etc, or was it just a chore. I regret cutting ties with some friends honestly. I was too embarrassed and too sensitive I expected them to offer support and they didn't so I just cut them out. I feel like I could've given them more time and open up a little more and see.


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## QuestForFire (Oct 3, 2020)

I made an account just to reply to this thread. I'm probably going to regret it like I regret everything I do or don't do.
I feel exactly the same as the guy from the first post. Life is a drag , I'm not enjoying it at all.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

Myosr said:


> I think it depends on the person contacting you. Sometimes it can be someone who likes your company and just wants to get in touch, other times people like to collect 'data' about how everyone's doing just to make sure they are "above average" or something I donno. :roll (It's a really annoying feeling, especially if people aren't self-aware of it)
> 
> You really have to ask yourself if you like the person's company or not, did you enjoy your time with them, etc, or was it just a chore. I regret cutting ties with some friends honestly. I was too embarrassed and too sensitive I expected them to offer support and they didn't so I just cut them out. I feel like I could've given them more time and open up a little more and see.


I guess she's the former. I used to confide in her about my problems. She knew my struggles in finding job, getting a partner and so on. I'm pretty comfortable around her but at the same time, feel embarassed because she's doing really well, while I'm going downhill. She had her struggles in the past for sure but she seems strong and determined to get out from them. I'm kind of guilty for cutting her out.



QuestForFire said:


> I made an account just to reply to this thread. I'm probably going to regret it like I regret everything I do or don't do.
> I feel exactly the same as the guy from the first post. Life is a drag , I'm not enjoying it at all.


I feel your pain.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

jim11 said:


> No improvement for me either. Seriously, I don't know where you got that energy to do the volunteer work and working out. I've none. Everything feels like a drag.
> 
> It's good to see you try to enter a different field. It's certainly not easy for those not comfortable with change.
> 
> ...


I worked in academia for some 10 years, always in part-time freelance positions. Financially and in terms of security, all of that education gets you nowhere. I was broke during all of those years. Very ****ing broke.

At some point, I decided to monetize my education. I thought tutoring was beneath me (and I was of course massively overqualified) but it actually paid rather well. Within a few weeks, I made more money tutoring than lecturing. In the US, lots of people need SAT tutoring. Google says it pays $70/ hour but I know people that make $150+/ hour doing that. And they are booked up! You want to look into that.

The tutoring led to other things (tutoring clients asking for more academic help). Again, I tried it once and that became the new thing. I actually turned it into a consultancy business. I have run that for 6 years now.

Anyone with a Master's degree or a PhD should look into tutoring. Try it, you will be very surprised at how easily you can make a living. Try not to use an agency to get clients though. They take too large a cut. Write yourself a little website with Wordpress and advertise online.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

Lisa said:


> I worked in academia for some 10 years, always in part-time freelance positions. Financially and in terms of security, all of that education gets you nowhere. I was broke during all of those years. Very ****ing broke.
> 
> At some point, I decided to monetize my education. I thought tutoring was beneath me (and I was of course massively overqualified) but it actually paid rather well. Within a few weeks, I made more money tutoring than lecturing. In the US, lots of people need SAT tutoring. Google says it pays $70/ hour but I know people that make $150+/ hour doing that. And they are booked up! You want to look into that.
> 
> ...


Wow I admire your hard work!

Can you elaborate more on your academic consultancy? Do you provide services like assisting your clients in their academic assignments?


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## QuestForFire (Oct 3, 2020)

jim11 said:


> The last person ever contacted me was my uni friend about a year ago. It was through email because I don't use social media. She wanted to catch up but I never reply it. Kinda feel bad about it but I do not wish people to know that I don't have any progress in life after uni. It's embarrassing.


Yes I dread coming across people from college or school. I avoid them like the plague. I have at several instances just turned my back or did a big detour just to avoid running across someone I know. There are still some people who contact me every now and then and when they do I roll my eyes and feel uncomfortable. My phone lies there collecting dust and when the ringtone rings I don't answer it. Luckily I only get 2 to 3 phonecalls a year.
I am the most passive untalented person of all time, it is ridiculous.
I have totally given up on myself. The neighbors' son in law got diagnosed with cancer and all I could feel was jealousy. If that's not ****ed up I don't know what is...


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

QuestForFire said:


> Yes I dread coming across people from college or school. I avoid them like the plague. I have at several instances just turned my back or did a big detour just to avoid running across someone I know. There are still some people who contact me every now and then and when they do I roll my eyes and feel uncomfortable. My phone lies there collecting dust and when the ringtone rings I don't answer it. Luckily I only get 2 to 3 phonecalls a year.
> I am the most passive untalented person of all time, it is ridiculous.
> I have totally given up on myself. The neighbors' son in law got diagnosed with cancer and all I could feel was jealousy. If that's not ****ed up I don't know what is...


Yeah I feel weird whenever people try to reach me. I think it's most likely to the fact that I've been hiding and alone for many years to the point that I don't expect anyone would remember, let alone trying to contact me.

Some days I felt so difficult to get out from bed I just kept sleeping because I didn't want to face another day knowing that I got stuck in the past. I always pretended that I have a normal mood like everyone elses in my family. I don't want them to worry.


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## W00DBINE (Sep 13, 2016)

QuestForFire said:


> Yes I dread coming across people from college or school. I avoid them like the plague. I have at several instances just turned my back or did a big detour just to avoid running across someone I know. There are still some people who contact me every now and then and when they do I roll my eyes and feel uncomfortable. My phone lies there collecting dust and when the ringtone rings I don't answer it. Luckily I only get 2 to 3 phonecalls a year.
> I am the most passive untalented person of all time, it is ridiculous.
> I have totally given up on myself. The neighbors' son in law got diagnosed with cancer and all I could feel was jealousy. If that's not ****ed up I don't know what is...


Same, someone I went to school with sent me a facebook friends request, but I didn't accept it because I was too worried if he'd ask me too many questions about my pathetic life.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

jim11 said:


> Wow I admire your hard work!
> 
> Can you elaborate more on your academic consultancy? Do you provide services like assisting your clients in their academic assignments?


What are your degrees in? That is the first thing that needs to be looked at.

I know someone that did computational biology. That's more than great for consulting.


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## QuestForFire (Oct 3, 2020)

jim11 said:


> Yeah I feel weird whenever people try to reach me. I think it's most likely to the fact that I've been hiding and alone for many years to the point that I don't expect anyone would remember, let alone trying to contact me.
> 
> Some days I felt so difficult to get out from bed I just kept sleeping because I didn't want to face another day knowing that I got stuck in the past. I always pretended that I have a normal mood like everyone elses in my family. I don't want them to worry.


Yep exactly like me, nobody knows I'm having some problems. I keep it cool to the outside world. I pretend to have not a care in the world, little do they know. As a result people do think I don't care about anything or anyone though because I keep my distance which I do just out of discomfort, shame and mostly a very negative self image. I wallow in self pity as well.



W00DBINE said:


> Same, someone I went to school with sent me a facebook friends request, but I didn't accept it because I was too worried if he'd ask me too many questions about my pathetic life.


I stopped using Facebook many many years ago because it made me feel bad to see other people's amazing achievements plus I dreaded invitations for events etc. I immediately felt a lot better when I deleted that account. But that is all just temporary. I'm curious to see how I react when I hit 40? Probably a nervous breakdown incoming.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

Lisa said:


> What are your degrees in? That is the first thing that needs to be looked at.
> 
> I know someone that did computational biology. That's more than great for consulting.


Bachelor's & PhD degree = Plant molecular 
Master's = business admin

I'm not sure what can be done with plant molecular. Business admin sounds good for consulting but I lack field experience.



QuestForFire said:


> Yep exactly like me, nobody knows I'm having some problems. I keep it cool to the outside world. I pretend to have not a care in the world, little do they know. As a result people do think I don't care about anything or anyone though because I keep my distance which I do just out of discomfort, shame and mostly a very negative self image. I wallow in self pity as well.
> 
> I stopped using Facebook many many years ago because it made me feel bad to see other people's amazing achievements plus I dreaded invitations for events etc. I immediately felt a lot better when I deleted that account. But that is all just temporary. I'm curious to see how I react when I hit 40? Probably a nervous breakdown incoming.


I only have 4 years left before hitting 40. It's truly a scary thought getting stuck in the same situation for the rest of my life.


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## W00DBINE (Sep 13, 2016)

QuestForFire said:


> I stopped using Facebook many many years ago because it made me feel bad to see other people's amazing achievements plus I dreaded invitations for events etc. I immediately felt a lot better when I deleted that account. But that is all just temporary. I'm curious to see how I react when I hit 40? Probably a nervous breakdown incoming.


I mainly use it for messenger for the one or two people I actually talk to, but I don't really post anything. Seeing others post their achievements or whatever doesn't really bother me, people only post the positive stuff, doesn't mean they're happy or aren't going through something.

But I'm glad it makes you feel better. I'll be 40 in 3 and a half years, but in my mind I still feel like I'm in my 20s...


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

W00DBINE said:


> I mainly use it for messenger for the one or two people I actually talk to, but I don't really post anything. Seeing others post their achievements or whatever doesn't really bother me, people only post the positive stuff, doesn't mean they're happy or aren't going through something.
> 
> But I'm glad it makes you feel better. I'll be 40 in 3 and a half years, but in my mind I still feel like I'm in my 20s...


Like the case of Chris and Shannan Watts.


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## kings_speech (Feb 13, 2020)

Nowadays, I think many people are feeling a lack of progress. Though in my case, I already distance myself from people. In a way, this pandemic has validated my reasons to continue distancing. It doesnt mean I'm ok with it, but I'm digressing...


My general advice is, there's no need to lose hope. Because with lifestyles going virtual, there's opportunities out there as long as you have a computer and internet whether it's a job or social event. I wont claim I'm living a happy life, but at least I can acknowledge there is every reason to continue reaching out to the world and seeking what I want. Sooner or later, something positive will come your way as long as you put in the effort.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

kings_speech said:


> Nowadays, I think many people are feeling a lack of progress. Though in my case, I already distance myself from people. In a way, this pandemic has validated my reasons to continue distancing. It doesnt mean I'm ok with it, but I'm digressing...
> 
> My general advice is, there's no need to lose hope. Because with lifestyles going virtual, there's opportunities out there as long as you have a computer and internet whether it's a job or social event. I wont claim I'm living a happy life, but at least I can acknowledge there is every reason to continue reaching out to the world and seeking what I want. Sooner or later, something positive will come your way as long as you put in the effort.


In my case, it's not just a matter of feeling, it is a fact that I got no progress. I get it, some people feel they got no progress but in reality they do have progress. Just that they are not satisfied with their achievements.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

jim11 said:


> Bachelor's & PhD degree = Plant molecular
> Master's = business admin
> 
> *I'm not sure what can be done with plant molecular*. Business admin sounds good for consulting but *I lack field experience*.
> ...


And those two thoughts are exactly where you go wrong, imo.

1. Not being sure what can be done with a particular degree: Research what fields and industries people with those degrees get into. Some of those fields/ industries will be quite far from what you actually did while studying and that's to be expected. Get off the beaten path and try out adjacent fields. It will be a learning curve but I would be surprised if learning new stuff was something that bothered you LOL

2. Lacking experience: So? Not doing something because you have never done it before will necessarily keep you right where you are. The first time you sat behind the wheel you didn't have experience. The first day as an undergraduate you didn't have experience (certainly not being a student) etc. etc. The key is to start small, get that experience and then take it from there.

I skimmed through what plant molecular biology is. The field is where it is at today because decades ago people took steps into uncharted territory, they did things they had no experience in. Running experiments is how you learn stuff, how you develop, how you progress. Why not apply that principle to your life?

That is what I do, btw. I apply the scientific method to my life (LOL) and I also sell it basically. People are all versed in the scientific method but the method itself has developed a life of its own in the past decade (computational advances and all of that). People don't want to have to keep up with it because they would rather do their actual work. So they outsource the technical science stuff.

Start tutoring. People will quickly start asking for help with particular things. That's how you spot a gap in the market. And then you sell exactly that.

Or you could tell yourself that you have no experience and stay right where you are


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## abhinav21 (Jan 19, 2010)

Am turning 35 this month and in similar state. Have a masters degree and also worked for a few years before giving up on career, realising I can't continue in a corporate environment. Started self employment which didn't work either and had to shut down few months back. No motivation to do anything although am still trying to get back into job market but based on my past, not geting much positive response. Now am doing some online course just to show something to employers. I have huge respect for you for having done a PhD which requires extraordinary work and research. I did think of pursuing it few times but am not sure if I could face the panel while defending thesis (extreme stage fright) or deal with students while teaching. Also dont have the required passion and idea on research topic.


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## mat1 (Oct 8, 2020)

Lisa said:


> And those two thoughts are exactly where you go wrong, imo.
> 
> 1. Not being sure what can be done with a particular degree: Research what fields and industries people with those degrees get into. Some of those fields/ industries will be quite far from what you actually did while studying and that's to be expected. Get off the beaten path and try out adjacent fields. It will be a learning curve but I would be surprised if learning new stuff was something that bothered you LOL
> 
> ...


How do you get the confidence to tutor? I have multiple degrees too but I spent most of university alone and then after that. Tutoring might be awkward and what if they still don't understand the concepts?


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

mat1 said:


> How do you get the confidence to tutor? I have multiple degrees too but I spent most of university alone and then after that. *Tutoring might be awkward* and *what if they still don't understand the concepts*?


That's anxiety speaking.

So what if it may be awkward? You will be able to handle it. You can call it de-sensitization.

If you tutor and they still don't understand... then you may have to think about how to explain stuff. Most people get the hang of it quickly. 

Anxiety and doubt is what keeps you where you are. What if? What if it works? Could be a solution.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

@jim11 @abhinav21 @mat1 and everyone else with Master's degrees and PhDs: Go for tutoring and then see where it takes you 

I found a Quora subpage where US tutors discuss tutoring. Here is a copy/ paste of the first entry:

How much you make as a tutor is primarily driven by four factors: where you're located, how many hours you tutor, your perceived skill at helping students, and what time of year it is.

*Location. *As many have mentioned it depends on your area. It's not uncommon for tutors in major metropolitans in the US to charge $75+ an hour for SAT preparation. I've seen some as high as $125/hour. However, in smaller more rural areas, charging that high would severely limit the number of students you take.

*Hours. *The amount you make is directly related to how many hours you spend tutoring. It's pretty simple: the more time you spend tutoring, the more money you make. So if you want to do this part time and spend a few hours a few week meeting with students, that's obviously going to bring in less money than a full-time tutor.

*Your Abilities. *Parents and students are willing to pay a lot of money for a tutor, but only if they feel confident that the tutor is actually going to help the student. If you develop a reputation for delivering results, parents will be gladly pay more for your services than they would for someone who doesn't have as many recommendations.

*Time of Year.* One other thing to keep in mind, is that as a tutor you are also subject to the testing schedules. The closer it is to a testing date, the more demand there will be for your services. I found in my time as a tutor, that the summer is generally slow, and October and March are very busy, especially for SAT prep.

SAT prep can pay very well, but with it comes a level of expectations for service that is much higher than with an average high school class. Because of the pressure students feel to get into college, and how heavily weighted the SAT is, you have to be very sure that you'll be helping students more than if they just studied on their own.

Link: https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-an-SAT-tutor-make


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

Hi Jim,

I think we're about the same age. I left uni with a bad grade, and so spent my 20s working in a shop whilst trying to break through that "glass ceiling" into a proper profession. Was probably hopeful at the start that it would just take a bit of time, but then the 2008 financial crash came along and made every opportunity dry up, from which it never seemed to recover. From your comments, I feel you've had some hard times, and after all that rejection, I'm not surprised how unmotivated you must be.

What I will say is that through my own struggles with the job hunting process (the job interview remains my biggest anxiety challenge), I certainly learned quite a bit about the process, including where I'd unknowingly been approaching it in a counter-productive manner. 

You know more about your situation than us, and the fact you've expressed being unmotivated shows you respect the time of any forum member attempting to help. I appreciate that and so won't try to help "resolve" your issue. However, if you do want help, just to ensure we're stacking the odds in your favor, just let me know. I've been quite good at advising other friends (apparently). Also, there are positive aspects I've noticed from "reading between the lines" of your post, and if you'd like me to share, also feel free.

Wish you the best


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

abhinav21 said:


> Am turning 35 this month and in similar state. Have a masters degree and also worked for a few years before giving up on career, realising I can't continue in a corporate environment. Started self employment which didn't work either and had to shut down few months back. No motivation to do anything although am still trying to get back into job market but based on my past, not geting much positive response. Now am doing some online course just to show something to employers. I have huge respect for you for having done a PhD which requires extraordinary work and research. I did think of pursuing it few times but am not sure if I could face the panel while defending thesis (extreme stage fright) or deal with students while teaching. Also dont have the required passion and idea on research topic.


Getting off bed is still a difficult task but I started to apply for jobs again. Defending a thesis can be nerve wrecking when you are thinking of it. But when you're in the process of defending it, all the anxieties will likely go away as long as you are well prepared to tackle all the questions. I got a stage fright too but somehow managed to get the PhD. Seriously, it's just a PhD, a piece of certificate. It's not really a big deal. If you love to read and write, patient, independent and persistent, you should go for it. Do it part time while working. If you do it full time, you'll likely having a hard time to get a job when you graduated. I'm on a funded Phd, even getting a monthly pay from the uni while doing my PhD.



Lisa said:


> @jim11 @abhinav21 @mat1 and everyone else with Master's degrees and PhDs: Go for tutoring and then see where it takes you
> 
> I found a Quora subpage where US tutors discuss tutoring. Here is a copy/ paste of the first entry:
> 
> ...


Lisa, thank you very much for your advice. Really appreciate it. I dunno about tutoring, but I've done the consulting job 8 years ago. It's not really working for me, tbh.



macky said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> I think we're about the same age. I left uni with a bad grade, and so spent my 20s working in a shop whilst trying to break through that "glass ceiling" into a proper profession. Was probably hopeful at the start that it would just take a bit of time, but then the 2008 financial crash came along and made every opportunity dry up, from which it never seemed to recover. From your comments, I feel you've had some hard times, and after all that rejection, I'm not surprised how unmotivated you must be.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, Macky. Before the pandemic, I got called for interviews. But now due to the bad economy, I heard nothing from the companies. And what do you mean by "unknowingly been approaching it in a counter-productive manner?"


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> Thanks a lot, Macky. Before the pandemic, I got called for interviews. But now due to the bad economy, I heard nothing from the companies. And what do you mean by "unknowingly been approaching it in a counter-productive manner?"


Thanks Jim. I'll be really honest - I probably had something more profound when I said that quote, but instead it may have been a fancy way of saying that I became aware of bad habits and ill-advised assumptions that held me back - and that fixing these bolstered my chances. I'd be happy to share some if you want.

Indeed, it looks like the same thing in 2008 is happening now (whereby you at least had interviews, and then the downturn even stopped those). If it's any comfort, the fact many people are going through it now means this doesn't reflect negatively upon yourself.

Out of curiosity, are you applying for a specific type of job in particular? And are they of the same occupation, or pretty mixed?


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

macky said:


> Thanks Jim. I'll be really honest - I probably had something more profound when I said that quote, but instead it may have been a fancy way of saying that I became aware of bad habits and ill-advised assumptions that held me back - and that fixing these bolstered my chances. I'd be happy to share some if you want.
> 
> Indeed, it looks like the same thing in 2008 is happening now (whereby you at least had interviews, and then the downturn even stopped those). If it's any comfort, the fact many people are going through it now means this doesn't reflect negatively upon yourself.
> 
> Out of curiosity, are you applying for a specific type of job in particular? And are they of the same occupation, or pretty mixed?


Yes I'd be more than happy if you can share.

I'm applying for jobs in different field. They are different kind of jobs that require different academic qualifications. For example, recently I applied for corporate jobs that only required Bachelor's and/or Master's degree. Before the pandemic, I mostly applied for research positions that required PhD degree.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> Yes I'd be more than happy if you can share.
> 
> I'm applying for jobs in different field. They are different kind of jobs that require different academic qualifications. For example, recently I applied for corporate jobs that only required Bachelor's and/or Master's degree. Before the pandemic, I mostly applied for research positions that required PhD degree.


Thanks for sharing, Jim. Well thought generally, it makes one more attractive as a recruiting prospect if they already have a job, this current macro-economic situation may make being unemployed more understandable to employers, and so loosen their normally-strict standard (this can perhaps also be a gateway reason for approaching your former-friends for help). Additionally, the fact you've been experienced in job searching probably gives you an advantage over these new job seekers who may have not applied for a job in years.

So I'm just going to "briefly" summarise list some of these things I learned throughout the time I was looking around for jobs - meaning they're not intended to be full answers as each one may be a topic in itself. Apologies in advance if this is long-winded:

- knowledge that reaching the interview stage signifies I've already been deemed eligible for the position, irrespective of there been more experienced candidates. Being told, _after_ the interview that "unfortunately we went for someone with more experience " should normally be taken with a grain of salt, and focus instead be placed upon your interview skills.

- avoiding "Shotgun approach" to job applying. Inevitably the resume becomes not relevant enough for grabbing an employer's attention. Also, though you're trying to assure employers that you are interested particularly in the position, the shotgun approach made recruiters notice my name reappearing across an inconsistent job range, basically screaming "I'll-take-any-job".

-	Being flexible, which I see you are displaying by looking at BA-level jobs. My own emphasis on getting my foot-in-the-door did actually make me open to "school leaver" level jobs (where I'd thus be over-qualified), as long as the company itself had opportunities to build my skills or help me move upwards. Also, you may suddenly find yourself going down a completely different career path than planned, and this possibly turning out to be for the better.

- focusing my resume towards highlighting job achievements and where I've improved the company, particularly for "filler"/"dead-end" jobs. Hence whilst in temporary positions, this mindset pushed me into trying to engineer my situation to create opportunities for these to happen. This turns those "filler jobs" into strengths, by portraying an image of going the extra mile that other candidates may not have.

- ensuring confidence in 3 core interview queries: "tell me about yourself", why you want the position in particular (i.e. assuring the interviewer that you'll stay for the long-term), and why the employer should employ you and not anybody else.

-	Networking requires some brutal humility and is a steep learning curve for anybody not too social. Admittedly I also started concentration on this after I got my foot in the door. However, those unemployed can still join online networking communities. Aside from directly asking, simply seeking advice can put your name in people's minds if an opportunity comes up.

- seeking resume review and role-play opportunities from recruiters. I'd been avoidant of this, but eventually decided it was necessary. This not only improved my skills but also increased my confidence, which in itself will affect how you'll conduct yourself.

- asking feedback that includes what resume points initially attracted them. This allowed me to play further to my strengths in both my resume and interview skills.

- analysing and applying job-seeking advice consistently, and adapting it as you go along. Try to avoid using "exceptionalism" based-reasons to veer away from conventional advice, unless if you've found a reliable and proven-to-be-better alternative.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

macky said:


> Thanks for sharing, Jim. Well thought generally, it makes one more attractive as a recruiting prospect if they already have a job, this current macro-economic situation may make being unemployed more understandable to employers, and so loosen their normally-strict standard (this can perhaps also be a gateway reason for approaching your former-friends for help). Additionally, the fact you've been experienced in job searching probably gives you an advantage over these new job seekers who may have not applied for a job in years.
> 
> So I'm just going to "briefly" summarise list some of these things I learned throughout the time I was looking around for jobs - meaning they're not intended to be full answers as each one may be a topic in itself. Apologies in advance if this is long-winded:
> 
> ...


I really appreciate your tips. The problem of being flexible in my case is that I have a hard time explaining the gap in my resume. If I applied for a job that only requires Master's, I'd omitted my PhD from my resume. The recruiters may notice the time gap between my master's and Phd and they might ask me what did I do in-between the gap. This is very tricky as I do not wish to reveal that I've got a Phd because from experience, they would doubt that I might stay in the company if I got a better job elsewhere that requires the Phd. The worst part is they can simply google my name and find a list of academic publications that I've published based on my PhD research.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> I really appreciate your tips. The problem of being flexible in my case is that I have a hard time explaining the gap in my resume. If I applied for a job that only requires Master's, I'd omitted my PhD from my resume. The recruiters may notice the time gap between my master's and Phd and they might ask me what did I do in-between the gap. This is very tricky as I do not wish to reveal that I've got a Phd because from experience, they would doubt that I might stay in the company if I got a better job elsewhere that requires the Phd. The worst part is they can simply google my name and find a list of academic publications that I've published based on my PhD research.


No problem Jim - happy to help out a tryer!

It's actually good that you're trying to see things from the recruiter's point of view. From what I understood, there was a _significant_ gap between you completing your masters and commencing your PhD. Before I respond in haste, I just wanted to ask:

i. How long was the gap? Was there indeed anything you _was_ doing at this time (feel free to say "not much at all", as the next question is the most relevant).

ii. In roughly what % of interviews were you directly queried regarding this gap, versus those where it was never brought up - and do you remember how you responded?


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

macky said:


> No problem Jim - happy to help out a tryer!
> 
> It's actually good that you're trying to see things from the recruiter's point of view. From what I understood, there was a _significant_ gap between you completing your masters and commencing your PhD. Before I respond in haste, I just wanted to ask:
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for the confusion. My English is not so great so it can be a little hard for me to explain this. I put it the wrong way earlier. What I meant was the gap between the completion of my master's and now. Almost all of them queried what I'm doing after my master's. But I do not wish to tell them that I spent my time after master's doing a PhD. The reason I do not wish to tell them is because they might think that I'm overqualified since the job only requires master's.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> I'm sorry for the confusion. My English is not so great so it can be a little hard for me to explain this. I put it the wrong way earlier. What I meant was the gap between the completion of my master's and now. Almost all of them queried what I'm doing after my master's. But I do not wish to tell them that I spent my time after master's doing a PhD. The reason I do not wish to tell them is because they might think that I'm overqualified since the job only requires master's.


Your English is fine Jim, I didn't notice anything wrong. Just for your information, my job involves analysis and be very certain of the problem situation, rather than suggesting advice that is based on assumptions. Apologies therefore if I ask for clarification as a result, as this approach is normally for face-to-face discussions, rather than forum posts. Feel free to ask me to stop by the way, if you want to ask me another time maybe.

The choice to not mention your PhD is a topic in itself. But continuing on from the previous queries...

How long has it been since you completed your masters? And when these interviewers ask what you've done since then, what do you usually tell them? Also, how do they respond to your answer (for example, do they query it further, and if so how do you respond? Or are they satisfied and move on to the next question?)


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

macky said:


> Your English is fine Jim, I didn't notice anything wrong. Just for your information, my job involves analysis and be very certain of the problem situation, rather than suggesting advice that is based on assumptions. Apologies therefore if I ask for clarification as a result, as this approach is normally for face-to-face discussions, rather than forum posts. Feel free to ask me to stop by the way, if you want to ask me another time maybe.
> 
> The choice to not mention your PhD is a topic in itself. But continuing on from the previous queries...
> 
> How long has it been since you completed your masters? And when these interviewers ask what you've done since then, what do you usually tell them? Also, how do they respond to your answer (for example, do they query it further, and if so how do you respond? Or are they satisfied and move on to the next question?)


It's been 8 years since I completed my master's. I told them a half-truth story that I'm doing my own academic consulting business after my master's until present. The truth is I only did that for a couple of years. I'm unemployed presently. Most of the interviewers were satisfied by my answers but I remember in my most recent interview, I think around April, the interviewer commented that it's a bit unusual for a master's holder to do this consulting thing.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> It's been 8 years since I completed my master's. I told them a half-truth story that I'm doing my own academic consulting business after my master's until present. The truth is I only did that for a couple of years. I'm unemployed presently. Most of the interviewers were satisfied by my answers but I remember in my most recent interview, I think around April, the interviewer commented that it's a bit unusual for a master's holder to do this consulting thing.


Thanks Jim. Well in regards to the interviewer who said it was "unusual", I'd see no concern with, because entrepreneurship is indeed unusual in any circumstance. The interviewer may even have meant it as a compliment.

But either way, it's only interviewer. Now I',m not advocating leaving your PhD off of the resume, but interviewers generally seem okay with believing your consultancy business covered the full 8 years, I'm not quite sure why deciding whether or not to continue leaving your PhD off has become an immediate dilemma. My only guess is that, because of current difficulties in reaching the interview stage, you'll have less opportunity to mention this consultancy business.

Though I'll probably give other people a chance to comment, my perhaps final questions (for the benefit of others) would be:
- What experiences have happened that have convinced you that mentioning your PhD on your resume would result in your resume being rejected due to being overqualified?
- do you mention this consultancy business on your resume at all? And apart from this, does your resume mention anything else you've been involved in within the last 8 years?
- do you regularly request interview feedback following an (unsuccessful) interview? If so, then how have the interviewers responded?


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

macky said:


> Thanks Jim. Well in regards to the interviewer who said it was "unusual", I'd see no concern with, because entrepreneurship is indeed unusual in any circumstance. The interviewer may even have meant it as a compliment.
> 
> But either way, it's only interviewer. Now I',m not advocating leaving your PhD off of the resume, but interviewers generally seem okay with believing your consultancy business covered the full 8 years, I'm not quite sure why deciding whether or not to continue leaving your PhD off has become an immediate dilemma. My only guess is that, because of current difficulties in reaching the interview stage, you'll have less opportunity to mention this consultancy business.
> 
> ...


The problem with mentioning my PhD in jobs application that only require lower academic qualifications (6th Form, Bachelor's and Master's) is that the interviewers would question my real motive of applying the jobs. They questioned my commitment to the jobs. They didn't believe I'd stay long in the firm if I'm underemployed. Some even directly told me that they can't afford to employ PhD holders.

Yes I mentioned this business in my resume. I also mentioned some of the temporary corporate jobs that I've done after graduating with Bachelor's.

I did not request for any feedback regarding the interviews. I thought of that but I let my emotions ruled me over. I got upset and resentful so I never wanted to contact them back for feedbacks.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> The problem with mentioning my PhD in jobs application that only require lower academic qualifications (6th Form, Bachelor's and Master's) is that the interviewers would question my real motive of applying the jobs. They questioned my commitment to the jobs. They didn't believe I'd stay long in the firm if I'm underemployed. Some even directly told me that they can't afford to employ PhD holders.
> 
> Yes I mentioned this business in my resume. I also mentioned some of the temporary corporate jobs that I've done after graduating with Bachelor's.
> 
> I did not request for any feedback regarding the interviews. I thought of that but I let my emotions ruled me over. I got upset and resentful so I never wanted to contact them back for feedbacks.


Thanks Jim for the direct answers.

These seem to be _valid_ concerns that these interviews are raising. Importantly however is that theyknew about your PhD _before_ deciding to invite you to an interview. Reminiscent of one of my previously-listed tips, it doesn't seem that being overqualified was in itself a deal-breaker and that instead, the interviewers _initially_ were open to having their opinions be swayed.

From what you've shared I can sense reasons why you'd be invited to these interviews. Indeed, settling down these concerns may very well leave you being the best candidates (before further considering your interview approach as a whole). Perhaps keep this in mind if you find that leaving your PhD on the resume makes little difference to whether you get an interview.

But ultimately if you do find that mentioning the PhD proves to be more a liability than an opportunity, how to treat it on your resume would be understandable.

Not sure if, aside from the PhD, you've considered other improvement opportunities in your job-hunting/ interview approach. Certainly asking for feedback is both nerve-wracking and cumbersome if you just want to move on. Unfortunately however, you may have developed habits that you'd be unaware of until somebody else points it out as something you do. It may be that attaining such feedback and applying that to your approach may well have landed you a job by now.

Especially now that interviews are thin, you may want to consider getting interview feedback as crucial. Again, you can only rely so much on reading online tips, and us forum members will never really know how you conduct yourself. If you can, arranging for recruiters to review your CV and even do mock interviews over zoom can help.

I hope it works out for you. Feel free to ask for any clarifications but otherwise - good luck, keep improving your technique and hopefully you'll land a role real soon.


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## jim11 (May 23, 2011)

macky said:


> Thanks Jim for the direct answers.
> 
> These seem to be _valid_ concerns that these interviews are raising. Importantly however is that theyknew about your PhD _before_ deciding to invite you to an interview. Reminiscent of one of my previously-listed tips, it doesn't seem that being overqualified was in itself a deal-breaker and that instead, the interviewers _initially_ were open to having their opinions be swayed.
> 
> ...


Low self-confidence is one of my problem. That's very hard to work on. I'll try to get interview feedback in the future.


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## macky (Jan 25, 2015)

jim11 said:


> Low self-confidence is one of my problem. That's very hard to work on. I'll try to get interview feedback in the future.


It's pleasing to know you'll be asking for feedback in the future. And I'd also re-emphasise on advice of seeking resume feedback from a recruiting agency and seeing if they do mock interviews - and this can hopefully be done in the absence of their being a direct job vacancy.

Understood this would be very nerve-wracking for anybody, let alone somebody with low confidence. Not sure if it would help, but you may want to dedicate perhaps a 1-2 month period to giving everything 100% effort (like doing a sprint in the middle of a jog), focusing on continuously self-analysing and improving your approach - and there's fortunately always room for improvement. Having such a period of dedication may invertedly give you the motivation to "set your low confidence aside for the time being" and just do want to want to do if, for example, you decided you did want to reach out to recruiters.

Obviously, if you find your PhD resume itself getting rejected far more times than your non-PhD resume, it's understandable for you to choose the approach that increases your chances of landing an interview. But from reading your posts, I'm definitely convinced that these previous interviewers were not seeing you're PhD as an automatic disqualifier - at least during the time they raised this. Certainly if you're able to settle interviewer concerns in this scenario in particular, your "overqualification" can then lead you to outshine other candidates and so land the job.

Feel free to look back on my tips, and also ask for more advice if you want as I'm seeing so much potential and opportunities from what I read. But otherwise good luck - having gone through rough times through the whole hiring process, I feel that for you, Jim, as long as you're continuously improving and not giving up, I'm confident you'll land your job.


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## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

hypestyle said:


> well, I'm 46 now, and... well, I feel the same way. I don't want to live in the city i'm in, but I also nearly never get interviews for all the jobs I apply for. I apply for jobs in-town out of town, and out of state. Dozens every month, at minimum. No traction. No job offers. Always just email notes about "thanks but no thanks".
> I have two college degrees and I have yet to secure a job that requires a bachelor's degree.
> I keep being tempted to apply for a local apartment but my income is not quite comfortable to afford rent.


I am pretty much exactly the same. I'm also in my 40s now, have three degrees including a masters - arguable 4 if you include a 'degree' granted by a professional body - but I have completely failed in my field and in any attempt to have a career. I have just given up entirely. My social anxiety has not improved and I remain depressed. My confidence and self-image has stalled as well. The only relief has been finding a partner but even that is somewhat undermined by the above mentioned factors.


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## hypestyle (Nov 12, 2003)

Queneluvr said:


> I am pretty much exactly the same. I'm also in my 40s now, have three degrees including a masters - arguable 4 if you include a 'degree' granted by a professional body - but I have completely failed in my field and in any attempt to have a career. I have just given up entirely. My social anxiety has not improved and I remain depressed. My confidence and self-image has stalled as well. The only relief has been finding a partner but even that is somewhat undermined by the above mentioned factors.


Bust of luck to you for sure. the economies are just brutal, and I feel so sickened by what I've had to go through over the years. At one point I had dropped out of college and stayed away for several years. I was 35 by the time I began to get re-enrolled to a tech-school program and after that finishing a bachelor's degree.. I thought I 'made it' but I didn't, still had bad luck.


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## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

That sounds rough my friend. I can sort of relate as I took a long time to finish the first undergrad degree. I thought going to university was supposed to improve your prospects but it didn't do much for me. Not sure what's going to happen with this ridiculous covid thing now.


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## railcar82594 (Mar 1, 2016)

OP, well at least you got a phd. That's a lifetime accomplishment of relatively few in the world. You could continue doing research and get some articles published in journals(or do a blog on your subject), contributing to the advancement of knowledge of civilization, whether currently hired by a university or not(?)

Adding my education story to this thread. I also took longer to finish a cs batchelors eventually finishing up at a commuter college. Finally got a (low level IT and customer support) job and was away from home for a long period for a number of years. Then lost it and went back to community college for a two year associates in a different field. My social anxiety and awkwardness was so bad , that I had to change majors early on , or even retake certain lab classes I could not avoid, if I could not get along with the "current set" of students in that class. One time I had to physically move myself into another end of the room, because the guy in this lecture class kept sitting next to me and harassing or belittling me in everything I responded. Better I did that than eventually lose it and punch him suddenly in class and get expelled or arrested. What helped me later in the second minor college degree was the advent of more online classes. So even now today (and further pressured from this covid year) is that some bachelors or masters can be done practically all online now at certain colleges and universities offering those type of programs these days. But yeah, I'm all done for now. I can't do it anymore , even if I could afford it, or if the gov't funded a masters program enrollment for me, and looking like an old mental bum even in the zoom shared webinar of an online class.


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## aheel (Jan 30, 2021)

Queneluvr said:


> I am pretty much exactly the same. I'm also in my 40s now, have three degrees including a masters - arguable 4 if you include a 'degree' granted by a professional body - but I have completely failed in my field and in any attempt to have a career. I have just given up entirely. My social anxiety has not improved and I remain depressed. My confidence and self-image has stalled as well. The only relief has been finding a partner but even that is somewhat undermined by the above mentioned factors.


Similar situation to me and I'm 32. I achieved a bachelors degree in physics a number of years ago. My grade was first class honours and I did well on pretty much every module. In spite of this, I have had no success in the jobs market but I did reach the final interview stage of a few "serious" roles. A few years later I received a scholarship to study a master's in nuclear engineering. I finished that and again... no luck. I have thought to myself over and over again, what on Earth am I suppost to do just to get a job and a decent standard of living that enables me to move out of my parents house? Last year I applied to medical school and I received interviews from 3 universities. I await the final outcome to see if I will be offered a place at any of these. The job situation has set me back on all aspects of my life, because like I say I still live at home and I have no partner or children, heck I don't even have any friends anymore and I share a car with my father. I studied really hard at university because I am a hard worker in general, but in reality I probably studied the wrong things. I should have studied to be a doctor or an electrician or a brick layer right when I was 18. Unfortunately everyone has a bachelors degree now (and a lot of people have master's too) so it is no longer seen as a special thing. I turn 33 this year and I am despondent with my life situation. I still deal with anxiety too but it doesn't hold me back as much. When I was 18 I couldn't attend interviews or barely walk around a shopping centre without shaking with nerves.


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## buggy (Mar 8, 2006)

Queneluvr said:


> I am pretty much exactly the same. I'm also in my 40s now, have three degrees including a masters - arguable 4 if you include a 'degree' granted by a professional body - but I have completely failed in my field and in any attempt to have a career. I have just given up entirely. My social anxiety has not improved and I remain depressed. My confidence and self-image has stalled as well. The only relief has been finding a partner but even that is somewhat undermined by the above mentioned factors.





aheel said:


> Similar situation to me and I'm 32. I achieved a bachelors degree in physics a number of years ago. My grade was first class honours and I did well on pretty much every module. In spite of this, I have had no success in the jobs market but I did reach the final interview stage of a few "serious" roles. A few years later I received a scholarship to study a master's in nuclear engineering. I finished that and again... no luck. I have thought to myself over and over again, what on Earth am I suppost to do just to get a job and a decent standard of living that enables me to move out of my parents house? Last year I applied to medical school and I received interviews from 3 universities. I await the final outcome to see if I will be offered a place at any of these. The job situation has set me back on all aspects of my life, because like I say I still live at home and I have no partner or children, heck I don't even have any friends anymore and I share a car with my father. I studied really hard at university because I am a hard worker in general, but in reality I probably studied the wrong things. I should have studied to be a doctor or an electrician or a brick layer right when I was 18. Unfortunately everyone has a bachelors degree now (and a lot of people have master's too) so it is no longer seen as a special thing. I turn 33 this year and I am despondent with my life situation. I still deal with anxiety too but it doesn't hold me back as much. When I was 18 I couldn't attend interviews or barely walk around a shopping centre without shaking with nerves.


Sorry, that's harsh. The economics are pretty brutal right now and everything else in the way of SA doesn't help as I've too learned.

I'm sadly in a similar situation as some of you posted - 33, several master degrees, yet in hindsight chose the wrong field to invest in, especially considering my pretty severe social anxiety issues (which I'd thought would disperse over the years, yeah about that...). Right now I'm figuring out my options but it is severely demoralizing, especially seeing peers which I went to school with forming lives and careers while I'm here not getting much of anywhere. I'm currently investing in drawing and with a bit of luck maybe I'll get good enough some day to do some work. Not much in the way of certainty, but at least SA won't deter me in that regard which is at least something that I really like about that.


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## irishkarl (Apr 20, 2020)

i know how you feel


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## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

buggy said:


> but it is severely demoralizing, especially seeing peers which I went to school with forming lives and careers while I'm here not getting much of anywhere.


This part I especially relate to. I have had to watch people my age and now much younger as well putting their adult lives together while I just limp along the side of the road failing to move into any new phase yet getting older and older and older. It is horrific and as you say, demoralizing. The demoralization factor is one that I have identified now as extremely significant. It has destroyed me and any potential I had and a lot of it seems to be imposed on purpose. I guess every society needs scapegoats that they give the rest of themselves permission to sacrifice...I seem to fit the scapegoat category for this era.


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## fairyface (Aug 14, 2016)

sandisc1 said:


> Interesting to see my post from 7 months ago.
> 
> The volunteer work didn't improve anything. I volunteered at a number of community running events but I quit after a while because it was always the same clique of older people and it felt boring and pointless. I started running a lot more though, 30-40 miles a week and am a lot fitter than before. However I am also bored of running around my local area.
> 
> ...


Well done, youve achieved allot in the last few months. 
Would you consider moving to another city or country? Somewhere your qualifications will be appreciated?


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## sandisc2 (Jul 12, 2021)

Haven't posted on here in a while.

I'm 33 now. Still no career and I feel lonelier than ever.

My dad has become really worried lately and wants to help me find a job.

I created a linkedin account but there is barely anything to write on it.

I have a bachelors in physics and a masters in nuclear engineering. I applied for some related jobs over the past few months and every application was ignored. I looked at the job description and I studied all of the content on my masters course, but my applications were ghosted nonetheless.

I only hear back from jobs which pay the minimum wage which is £9.50 per hour but they are all dead end jobs.

I don't know what to do.

I am now a confident driver and my dad lets me drive his car. I am also running a marathon later this year. Those are the only two positive things I have achieved.


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