# Are psychologists the most useless people in health care?



## Madara Uchiha

I want your opinions.
I have been to various different therapists over the years and I always made the same experience that basically they were ABSOLUTELY useless. The "advice" they gave if I may even call it so were so absolutely shallow and banal that basically ANY human could have given them. Some advice were okay but really NOTHING special at all. I could as well have talked to a drunk guy in a pub he might have said exactly the same things.
I was always wondering WHERE EXACTLY is the great psychological wisdom? When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came. I seriously ask myself what do these people go to the university for? What do they learn there when the stuff which comes out of their mouths is simply gibberish?

I think psychologists are absolutely over-paid and useless. They make way too much money simply sitting on their asses and saying a few trivial things every now on then.


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## Madara Uchiha

I really hate them. Even making this thread already makes my blood boil again.


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## Just Lurking

Talk therapy is more about getting _you_ to open up and think about your feelings, why you have them, etc. The psychologist is just there to facilitate that process and guide you through proven treatment methods. If you are going to experience anything "profound", it would be a revelation that comes from within -- it's not going to come from your psychologist.

If nothing else, I'd suggest expressing these thoughts in your next appointment. That's a key in psychology: Let everything out - don't hold back.


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## Madara Uchiha

Yes I know this stuff. But to me it's like a free ticket for the therapist. After all he is just there to "guide". LOL!
Basically he cannot do any mistakes. He can just sit there and drop a few comments every 5 minutes. This has go to be the
best job in the universe. They get paid for basically doing nothing. 

If I have problems and I cannot solve them then I expect a therapist to either drop something profound on me or to admit that he's
absolutely useless. Then I can at least save time and money. But they won't do this. They will leech as long as possible and stall you
until you finally find out that he sucks but then he will simply find a new patient. It's really sad.


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## Kilgore Trout

My psychiatrist was. But i guess all of them are mostly useless. 
Actually all of doctors are useless. They can't even *cure* a cold if you think about it. There are only treatments, which depending on how your body responds to them might be usefull(with a lot of side effects of course). But most of the time there is no cure.


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## Atar

My experience is that good shrinks are few and far between.


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## acidicwithpanic

For a lot of people, it's hard to come across a good therapist. All of my psychologists were great, but I had one psychiatrist that I gradually became uncomfortable around. He would get offended over things I would say even if they weren't directed towards him, and he prescribed me medications that made me physically ill as if he wasn't well-informed. I felt like he was randomly throwing different medications at me without careful consideration. Even my dad got pissed off at this guy and ended up calling him on the phone to demand that I get taken off of my meds, but my dad couldn't do anything about it because I was already a legal adult by then.


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## WillYouStopDave

There are probably some (or even many) who have nothing but the best intentions (the best possible under the circumstances, I mean) but I think a lot of these people are highly manipulative and are more screwed up in the head than 99% of the people they are supposedly helping. 

Think of it this way. It's not even debatable that human beings are inherently selfish creatures. With that out of the way, what motivates a person with higher than average intelligence to want to go into a field that gives them a blank check for messing around with other people's minds?

"Useless" is a pretty subjective term. I would imagine they're all extremely useful to someone. Just not always to their patients.


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## Invisiblehandicap

My psychiatrist is a lot better than therapists.


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## LotusBloom

I'm sure many psychologists go to a psychologist too. They want to help themselves in order to give help to clients. A psychology professor I had goes to her own psychologist. I think those who become psychologists are very curious about the mental lives of people or have personally dealt with psychological problems in their life before they went into the education. 

And yes, as a poster above mentioned there are psychologists out there who are manipulative. They are people too. With complex brains. I hope all of them mean well, but I know not all.
It just brings back memories of shrinks who took advantage of clients that I read and watched about, it is awful.


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## Melodic

I think you haven't found a good one yet. Pretty much anybody can go obtain a psychology degree as it's not that hard and universities want your money, but since the job market has become saturated it's getting competitive and now often relies on further study, extracurricular activities, research and luck to get a clinical psych job. Also I've found that a lot of psychologists (and psychiatrists) have mental health issues themselves, hence their interest in going into it. There's no great psychological wisdom (yet), most of them are just humans who went to university.


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## Joe

yeah other real scientists have definate methods for plenty of things, rather than just mayeb


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## Caedmon

Psychologists (I assume you mean counseling people in general) are training in psychotherapeutic approaches to treat personal problems. Those approaches have high-quality evidence of working. That doesn't mean that every counselor you see will be a home run. They vary in quality, or may not have a style that matches yours.

I have observed that men in general appreciate a very directive approach. We often dislike reflective counseling because we value "advice", which is why we are so eager to give advice to others on how to "fix it". Just ask women! (Yes I'm stereotyping.) It helps to find a counselor who has a direct approach and basically lays it out as, _"you need to do X,Y,Z to get better"_.

Keep in mind counselors don't like to do this much because if it doesn't work, it can be interpreted as "poor advice" even if it wasn't really. And the client doesn't have the chance to discover it him/herself, which is much more powerful.

When interviewing (or emailing), ask what their counseling style is - if they tend to be more reflective or more instructing since there is a range of possibilities. They will probably be able to tell you where they lay on that spectrum. Be direct and honest about the approach that _you_ want. You might also ask about doing a guidebook as part of the therapy, which is as directive as it gets.


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## Madara Uchiha

I wish I had a psychologist who would simply give some real advice like if I were you I would do this. But they never do this.
These jerks rather like to just sit on their asses and "listen" and then maybe ask a few questions. How in the world is this ****
supposed to help anyone with real problems? They are so overpaid and useless. It's so sad that there are still enough messed up
people out there so that they always have enough patients coming in. 
Psychologist can do whatever they want and nobody can prove that they made a mistake or can sue them. They can always simply
say the patient was too messed up to be helped.

Has a psychologist ever told you something profound where you thought wow this is deep? The stuff they told me was always so shallow
that it could as well have come from somebody who never saw a university from the inside.


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## twitchy666

*Been thinking this way for years.*

A new addition to the outer family achieved a "1st" in the P ology field. Sycho
They think they're clever. Science + arts... Humanities. She got straight into 1st job with a big hated recruiter firm I hate.

Then next job... Big pharmaceutical firm. Big executive position. Team building. No-brainers.
I see the evil psychologists as grande mind bullying terrorists - extraverted shouters or softies... Talktalk. Nothing happens in their microworld. Voice only. No hands-on. Expert overseer of 'How Are YOU?' all mummytalk from womb to nursery, kinderkarten, then bullying... Becoming an MSc

I'd say: all humans classified in sections /pigeonholes. Loser, criminal, poverty, 3rd world, beggars, with n or x friends... Turnover, credit, liability

Advert designers. Fake :clap happiness of new shiny cars, soap bubbles

Mind manipulation. Any sort of sales glued to me at school age. TV. Newspaper adverts. Door to door. Phone telemarketing. What disappoints me that vulcan mind melding doesn't seem to happen, at fingertip. All words. Giggling. I clock known friends, mum & daughter in same field. This thread makes me want to try popping into local humanities lectures to learn about it. Either powerful techniques? Or the pathetic I'd assume.


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## DarrellLicht

A therapist is most useful when your problems are on the dyer side. If you're a danger to yourself and others or you have a condition that is severely debilitating. Not dismissing SAD etc. 

It's still a long process that takes several sessions, and you might see another specialist down the line. If you don't have insurance coverage, you can tie a lot of money just to confide to someone. In some cases you can qualify for public assistance programs that cover therapy if you need it.

I think is a sad aspect about our current generation. We all seem so suspicious of each other to be more open. Particularly when it comes to the kids growing up today, there seems to be nothing in the way of mentors or people are just too afraid to be accused of being a molester or some crap. Not sure how anyone can grow to be a functional adult when they spent their formative years insular and sheltered.


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## Madara Uchiha

You know what I'd like to see a smart *** psychologist who becomes really miserable by having some real problems and then
finding out that his whole smart *** **** is worth crap.


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## Wolvenwish

No. Psychologists are not the most useless people in healthcare.

If you pick up any literature on guidance and counseling or therapy, one of the first things you will learn is that the therapist's job is not to be your friend, not to be an advice-giver, or a teacher - as someone has stated before, they are facilitators. They do not give advice because of the risk of their client only leaning on them for more advice in the future to help with their problems. A good, experienced, and _useful_ therapist will give their client mental tools to combat and challenge whatever internal issues they have so they can be happier and mentally healthier and stronger for an entire lifetime. Having mental tools and learning strong skills you never had, is not the same as getting advice. On top of this, the therapist is supposed to guide you into learning these new abilities.

It is notoriously hard to get into, and succeed in clinical psychology. There are many levels of expertise out there: counselors deal with people with adjustment problems, marriage issues, and maybe some life difficulties but they are basically trained to treat and help those with less severe disorders and problems. The minimum schooling to be a counselor includes six years of education and two years of grad school, and if you are looking to be even more involved in health care and be a licensed psychologist, look forward to many more years in grad school and one hell of a time trying to get a job.

That might have been off topic but think about this. If you have a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist in the chair in front of you, they are likely in debt. Mental health workers are very underpaid. If I were to get a masters in the next few years as I'm planning (and actually land a job) I would only make about 27,000 a year, tops. I am from southern Arkansas and the debt I would have to pay back would be massive and I wonder if it would ever get paid off with that kind of salary. This is how it is for many people in the field. Most of us don't go into it for the money. And with the extreme competition there is in psychiatry and clinical psychology, I would think that the academic curriculum is difficult enough that anyone who was just "going into it for the money because it pays better" would probably drop out of the program once they interned and got a real taste of how serious and hard it is to be a therapist. Plus they are paying six figures to go through the education so they can achieve one goal: to listen to those in need, like you, for an hour.

Therapists must go through extremely rigorous training and internships and learn how this all works. Yeah, there are some god awful therapists out there that have no ****ing clue what they're doing and couldn't give a **** about who they are treating, but, I think it is more likely that you have not found the right therapist. You must feel a bond with them as they with you. Do they specialize in whatever issues you are dealing with? Are they a counselor or a therapist? Are their preferred methods of therapy cognitive behavioral or are they more cognitively based? Talking about thoughts is one thing but the therapist must make sure that you are PROGRESSING.

But therapy does work. It takes time and dedication from both sides, the right therapist, the right medication if needed, and the right kind of therapy. This is something that is not an easy job to do. When I was in therapy, very briefly at a clinic in Pine Bluff, there were plenty of inmates coming in and lead into some heavy looking metal doors with screens on them and locked. Soon after this gun shots went off and we evacuated the building. One of my friends, who is a counselor for adolescents, has had a gun on her pulled twice during therapy. One of my professors in college, a forensic psychologist but also a licensed therapist, has tried to treat those with Borderline Personality Disorders and has had files of blood crushed on him and hidden needles poked into him, not to mention the brawls he's had to go through and the scars to show it.

Sorry if I went on too long. Don't give up trying to find help, there's lots of therapists and counselors who want to help you. No one deserves to suffer from mental health issues without proper care.


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## Wolvenwish

I was accepted into a master's program and my biggest desire in life is to help people and give them a chance. I have endured sexual abuse in my childhood by my cousins, I've been through the depths of benzodiazepine and opiate addiction and other addictions, I have been neglected, I have given up my life to help my autistic brother when I finally become independent. I battle severe social anxiety to the point where life feels like nothing. I have never shopped in a grocery store by myself, I haven't made friends since high school, I have had three contacts on my phone for years: my mom, dad, and brother. They divorced because of my bro when I was five, and I was totally pushed into the background when I was growing up because all my parent's effort went into taking care of my bro. We were very poor and never had air conditioning, our rented houses were infested with mice and bug infestations and we usually didn't have any insurance or much to eat, that I remember. I have given up the idea of ever getting married, having kids, or moving out of state so I can take care of my brother. I have had a disfigured jaw since I was a kid and did braces for ten years and I have to have all my teeth pulled anyway because they are rotting from the malnutrition I had when I was younger. All I do is worry but I have an insane need to take care of others and I don't care what I am paid or how much school costs, I know I need to be out there helping others so they do not find themselves in the same **** I did growing up.

The mental health care system is ****ing terrible. But nothing will change unless you get into it yourself and make a difference. Hopefully I will and the massive debt I pile up won't bother me, and I hope I just get a job when I get out.

But like I said before keep trying to find help. There's something for you out there. Maybe even a non traditional "therapist" can help you. Pastors are a good start (if you're religious... I was an atheist growing up so This wasn't comfortable for me) and then of course there are forums like these that can help, hotlines, and some therapists will even do their work _for free_ if you are struggling. It's been the case for me here where people are especially poor and can't pay $100 an hour. Which does not go directly into the therapists paycheck.


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## TheSilentGamer

From my experience, yes. They just pretend they care, while giving generic "advice". I'm actually jealous: these people are paid for doing nothing.


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## The Sorrow

Joe said:


> yeah other real scientists have definate methods for plenty of things, rather than just mayeb


Very, if a physic scientists would use such poor methods like psychology, he would get slapped into his face.


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## SofaKing

There are some equally useless patients, sadly. I feel for mental health professionals since ,unlike some other areas of healthcare, there isn't a "procedure" that can directly address the patient's illness.

And most any solution requires a patient who is truly committed to achieving health and actively participates.

It's too easy to blame the provider when the patient may also be sharing some of the responsibility for achieving their own wellness, and isn't.


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## Aeiou

I am still wondering.


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## acidicwithpanic

KyleInSTL said:


> There are some equally useless patients, sadly. I feel for mental health professionals since ,unlike some other areas of healthcare, there isn't a "procedure" that can directly address the patient's illness.
> 
> And most any solution requires a patient who is truly committed to achieving health and actively participates.
> 
> It's too easy to blame the provider when the patient may also be sharing some of the responsibility for achieving their own wellness, and isn't.


Definitely. I learned this the hard way. Initially, I thought that venting and taking meds regularly would have been enough to wipe away my mental illnesses completely. My therapists would give me weekly homework that included some exposure therapy and relaxation techniques, but I was either too lazy or stubborn to do any of it. I wanted there to be easier ways to treat my depression and anxiety, but it seemed like everything required me to get out of bed and force myself to do things which seemed draining. Now, I read every handout/article they give me, buy books they recommend to me, and do the homework. Ever since I started taking their advice and making strong efforts to change, I saw drastic improvement in my thinking and behaviors.

It's important to remember that some patients will have treatment-resistant illnesses like severe depression. Or they could have other illnesses that they don't know about that need months or even years of psychiatric evaluation before they even receive a diagnosis. Patience is key.


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## SplendidBob

KyleInSTL said:


> There are some equally useless patients, sadly. I feel for mental health professionals since ,unlike some other areas of healthcare, there isn't a "procedure" that can directly address the patient's illness.
> 
> And most any solution requires a patient who is truly committed to achieving health and actively participates.
> 
> It's too easy to blame the provider when the patient may also be sharing some of the responsibility for achieving their own wellness, and isn't.


The problem here is that the illness often affects the patients ability to actively participate. In order to 'be truly committed to achieving health' the patient already needs to be greatly improved from the illness which is causing them the problems, since the lack of motivation to do so is usually part of the problem (if we are talking about depression, which to some degree often accompanies SA).

Its like inventing a physical therapy for someone with weak legs, and saying its the patients fault for not having the strength of legs to do the therapy to strengthen them.

If we pretend that motivation and energy, and commitment are completely separate from the physicality of the brain, then we can blame the patient for a lack of compliance / motivation. If we are realistic however, we have to accept that the way the patient behaves is to a significant degree impacted by the mental health problems, because mental health problems affect the brain, and the brain affects how the person behaves and thinks.


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## SofaKing

splendidbob said:


> The problem here is that the illness often affects the patients ability to actively participate. In order to 'be truly committed to achieving health' the patient already needs to be greatly improved from the illness which is causing them the problems, since the lack of motivation to do so is usually part of the problem (if we are talking about depression, which to some degree often accompanies SA).
> 
> Its like inventing a physical therapy for someone with weak legs, and saying its the patients fault for not having the strength of legs to do the therapy to strengthen them.
> 
> If we pretend that motivation and energy, and commitment are completely separate from the physicality of the brain, then we can blame the patient for a lack of compliance / motivation. If we are realistic however, we have to accept that the way the patient behaves is to a significant degree impacted by the mental health problems, because mental health problems affect the brain, and the brain affects how the person behaves and thinks.


I think this is fair too and I certainly wasn't trying to imply that every therapeutic failure lays at the feet of the patient. As we know, there are extremes to everything.


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## Caedmon

One way find out if psychotherapy is actually helpful, is to use scientific and statistical methods to research the outcomes. And then it wouldn't be guesswork.

The research databases are out there, and are free. Take a look!



splendidbob said:


> The problem here is that the illness often affects the patients ability to actively participate. In order to 'be truly committed to achieving health' the patient already needs to be greatly improved from the illness which is causing them the problems, since the lack of motivation to do so is usually part of the problem (if we are talking about depression, which to some degree often accompanies SA).
> 
> Its like inventing a physical therapy for someone with weak legs, and saying its the patients fault for not having the strength of legs to do the therapy to strengthen them.


This example works against what you're saying. Physical therapy is designed to include individualized work based on the client's needs, desires, and goals, and then gradually increasing abilities within his/her potential. Psychotherapy is really not that different. It does take a different approach, since assessing interaction styles and beliefs and so on, is not so tangibly obvious from the get-go. But it is not fundamentally different.



> If we pretend that motivation and energy, and commitment are completely separate from the physicality of the brain, then we can blame the patient for a lack of compliance / motivation.


If you believe that you cannot make choices and that nothing can get better, and that you have no control over your life, you may decide that psychotherapy can do nothing for you. Why bother?

That kind of belief is self-fulfilling (I can't do anything so I won't. See? - I'm not capable of anything. That belief is true.).



> If we are realistic however, we have to accept that the way the patient behaves is to a significant degree impacted by the mental health problems, because mental health problems affect the brain, and the brain affects how the person behaves and thinks.


And vice versa. Behavior and thoughts influence feelings. This is so well-established in research literature as to be canonical. Your brain has extensive feedback loops from frontal lobes, thalamus, and limbic regions. Interpretations and thoughts from higher areas have a top-down effect.

It's not so much, does A --> B or does B --> A. A and B affect each other in a continuous relationship. This is not to say that psychotherapy has limitless potential to change and improve every person to some kind of arbitrary standard of normalcy but then again, no treatment can do that.


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## SplendidBob

If low motivation is a consequence of depression, then the patient cannot simply 'snap out of this' in the same way he cannot snap out of any other symptoms of depression. It becomes circular (you have to not be depressed before the treatment can help you if the starting point is too much of a jump).



Caedmon said:


> If you believe that you cannot make choices and that nothing can get better, and that you have no control over your life, you may decide that psychotherapy can do nothing for you. Why bother?
> 
> That kind of belief is self-fulfilling (I can't do anything so I won't. See? - I'm not capable of anything. That belief is true.).


What someone believes isn't a product of their conscious will (according to CBT). Why would someone be able to alter their belief about psychotherapy (and thus 'bother') without already having psychotherapy or some other external method to alter their beliefs?

You can't expect someone to alter their beliefs simply by force of will, if they could, CBT would be pointless, since CBT aims to modify a persons beliefs.

My point here isn't to discredit psychotherapy or CBT, it is to point out the inconsistency of 'blaming the patient' for beliefs which lead to non compliance in a therapy which claims patients cannot simply change their beliefs at will 



Caedmon said:


> And vice versa. Behavior and thoughts influence feelings. This is so well-established in research literature as to be canonical. Your brain has extensive feedback loops from frontal lobes, thalamus, and limbic regions. Interpretations and thoughts from higher areas have a top-down effect.
> 
> It's not so much, does A --> B or does B --> A. A and B affect each other in a continuous relationship. This is not to say that psychotherapy has limitless potential to change and improve every person to some kind of arbitrary standard of normalcy but then again, no treatment can do that.


I agree entirely. My comment wasn't one on the potential of psychotherapy per se, rather the mindset of blaming a 'difficult patient'. If part of the patients problem is low motivation, it is necessary for the therapy (and therapist) to address and deal with this.

Presumably a therapy needs to work on the motivational aspects of the problem first, in a graduated fashion. In my experience this isn't the case however, one is simply expected to have the motivation to do all of the homework from the get go. The attitude of 'well you get out of it what you put in' that's why it didn't work is faulty for a patient who is impaired in their capacity to 'put in'.


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## Noca

Medication doesn't solve anything long term, CBT therapy along with other forms of cognitive , lifestyle changes, exercise, diet, does.

Let me sum up the typical western medical doctor's approach to health and illnesses in this 15 seconds of video. Though this clip is about investing I am pretty sure you will get the analogy I am making.


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## blahblahdeeblah

acidicwithpanic said:


> For a lot of people, it's hard to come across a good therapist. All of my psychologists were great, but I had one psychiatrist that I gradually became uncomfortable around. He would get offended over things I would say even if they weren't directed towards him, and he prescribed me medications that made me physically ill as if he wasn't well-informed. I felt like he was randomly throwing different medications at me without careful consideration. Even my dad got pissed off at this guy and ended up calling him on the phone to demand that I get taken off of my meds, but my dad couldn't do anything about it because I was already a legal adult by then.


thats what my experience has been they just throw meds at you whatever they feel like putting you on or keeping you on and dont care to really think about it or what theyre doing to you. also ive found about fifty psychologists to be useless and not even know much about psychology. one said the point of therapy was for me to vent and for her to just sit there while i do all the talking. that she never had to say a word or give any advice or help. thats not why i go to them though...........i wanted to figure things out or get advice and tips and help. they know nothing they offer nothing theyre a bunch of idiots. random people know more than they do. its not funny.


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## DiscardYourFear

Madara Uchiha said:


> When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came.


Their job is not to say something profound and give you all the answers.
Their job is to get you to say something profound so you can find the answers for yourself. 
Most of the talking in a good therapy session should come from the patient.

Therapists, psychologists are not advisers. At least, the good ones aren't.


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## DiscardYourFear

blahblahdeeblah said:


> one said the point of therapy was for me to vent and for her to just sit there while i do all the talking. that she never had to say a word or give any advice or help. .


She was a good therapist.
You have to be a willing participant, though. 
It's okay that you weren't. We are ready when we are ready.
It took me over 10 years to be ready.


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## blahblahdeeblah

DiscardYourFear said:


> Their job is not to say something profound and give you all the answers.
> Their job is to get you to say something profound so you can find the answers for yourself.
> Most of the talking in a good therapy session should come from the patient.
> 
> Therapists, psychologists are not advisers. At least, the good ones aren't.


dont listen to the person i quoted its bad advice. psychologists arent helfpul i get more help from random people who know more about psychology. ive been to therapists for twenty years.


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## DiscardYourFear

blahblahdeeblah said:


> dont listen to the person i quoted its bad advice. psychologists arent helfpul i get more help from random people who know more about psychology. ive been to therapists for twenty years.


I wasn't giving advice. I was pointing out what good therapists do.


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## Meek Peace

Notice this YouTube channel i.e. PsyFile for example, it's dead despite being part of the Numberphile network. You'll also notice that the channel tells us less what psychology can do but more what psychology *can't* do.
https://www.youtube.com/user/psyfile/videos


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## blahblahdeeblah

Psychologists are supposed to know about psychology. One said "I'm sorry I don't know anything about anxiety." I asked one about schizotypal and she looked it up in her book and read to me about schizoaffective and said that it had another name schizoaffective. I had to tell her that they're two different things. Also she knew nothing about either of them and only knew about one after reading it in her book. I've asked therapists for twenty years what was wrong with someone I know and gave them all the information. They never knew. Then some random person on this site figured it out in two seconds after a post I made. Then I did all the reading about it and found out the random person is right. Why couldn't a psychologist figure this out given the same information and even more? They never knew anything. Most of them gave very little in ways of help or tips and it was a complete waste of time. I got more help from friends long distance over the phone. And two of them forged my records to cover themselves, what a shock. Maybe some could have been helpful but they still couldn't figure out what someone on here figured out in like two seconds. Why is that? And the ones that could have been helpful I was too anxious to be around them and also I hated them. So I left. And if I'm difficult, which I don't think I really am, isn't that to be expected from us mentally ill, the ones who are mentally ill and difficult, and isn't it their job to try to help us even though we're resistant or whatever? If we are resistant or mental then yeah it may be impossible. But most of all it was all a waste of time and I hated all of them.


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## Qolselanu

DiscardYourFear said:


> Their job is not to say something profound and give you all the answers.
> Their job is to get you to say something profound so you can find the answers for yourself.
> Most of the talking in a good therapy session should come from the patient.
> 
> Therapists, psychologists are not advisers. At least, the good ones aren't.


This was my experience with the last psychologist I saw. Unlike a lot of my previous counselors, this one preferred for me to do most of the talking. And that felt strange to me. But I grew into it. I figure a large component of counseling so to have an anchor or a constant for the patient. A counselor can notice behaviours/patterns that the patient is blind to.

One peculiar thing that happened during my sessions with this psychologist was that I frequently seemed to go back and forth between moments of high clarity and high uncertainty. (Like of what major I want to be, where I want to proceed through life). Like I'd be all: "Yes, I wanna do X. I want X in my life!!" Followed by: "OMG, what have I done, X is gonna be so hard!" I brought this up with her too, mentioning that I've never been so confused during therapy. Obviously she wasn't try to trick me or point me down a certain path in life. But there was this strange, subtle facilitation going on there. Although I'm still not so sure of what she did to me.


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## RockmanJL9981

yip i do better talking in front of a mirror dont know about others tho


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## Rixy

pouria19 said:


> They can't even *cure* a cold if you think about it. There are only treatments, which depending on how your body responds to them might be usefull(with a lot of side effects of course). But most of the time there is no cure.


You are aware of how difficult it is to cure the common cold, right?


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## starburst

Madara Uchiha said:


> I want your opinions.
> I have been to various different therapists over the years and I always made the same experience that basically they were ABSOLUTELY useless. The "advice" they gave if I may even call it so were so absolutely shallow and banal that basically ANY human could have given them. Some advice were okay but really NOTHING special at all. I could as well have talked to a drunk guy in a pub he might have said exactly the same things.
> I was always wondering WHERE EXACTLY is the great psychological wisdom? When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came. I seriously ask myself what do these people go to the university for? What do they learn there when the stuff which comes out of their mouths is simply gibberish?
> 
> I think psychologists are absolutely over-paid and useless. They make way too much money simply sitting on their asses and saying a few trivial things every now on then.


Yes you are right - it is simply too much of an easy career option for all too many - bleating out empty platitudes and statements of the obvious. Your better off doing your own research and finding what works for you. There are psychologists in virtually every area of our society and economy now - and largely they are not doing much that helps anyone - there are some good ones though, but most are not very helpful.

The one blaming his patients just shows unprofessionalism to the highest degree - like the poor quality workman who blames his tools!

If using a psychologist or psychiatrist - interview them FIRST, and check if their whole ideology regarding treatment is something that impresses and inspires you - if it doesn't then steer clear - you're just another SKU to them and a bar code. If you get a good one (they are rare) they could be WELL worth the effort though I believe. Schools today though are simply not turning out these in sufficient numbers.

Good luck


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## mjkittredge

I'm in total, 100% agreement with you OP.

Had similar experiences with therapists from the teen years on. It's what made me study psychology - I was so disappointed and thought I could do better.

Basically, after intake/evaluation, they just sit there and listen, barely ask anything, barely explain anything. They've got the easiest job on earth. 45 minutes with a client, 15 minute break in between, repeat several times, call it a day. Show up late for appointment whenever they feel like it. Cancel on you all the time. They don't have to actually do anything, there is no metric for their success or failure. Talk about job security.

I would think after all the years in school to get their masters, which is required, they'd have learned something super useful to help people. Why spend over 4 years in school to sit in a chair and nod your head? Are they really that helpless, that useless?

Have I just gotten horrible ones all my life?


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## gregs

I've seen several psychologists and they never told me anything I didn't already know. Their advice was useless for the most part anyway. I agree that they are way overpaid for what they do. Most cost $170 an hour or more. When you think about it, there's actually nothing they can do for your anxiety. Yet to be a psychologist requires over 8 years of university education. A psychiatrist can at least prescribe meds.


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## JDsays

Psychologists get a bad rap because of the nature of their work. They deal with complex problems such human behavior, mental health, social dynamics, learning and emotions. There aren't drugs to cure bad relationships or boost confidence for example.

The question becomes how do you deal with these problems effectively. If I'm having heart burn, I'll take some antacid. If I'm having allergies, I'll take some benedryl. If I'm having a cough, I'll take some cough syrup. What's the prescription to having anxiety in large groups on people in public? It's not going to be as simple as treating heart burn.

I'm making a big assumption and saying a lot of people want to cure their mental health problems, bad relationships, emotional problems the way you would treat a cough. The reality is that's not going to happen soon, or in our lifetime. Psychology has the burden of addressing these issues that we don't really know a whole lot about.

Neuroscience is at the frontier of giving these immediate, fast results. I think bio-hacking the mind and body is the next level of advancing human development. Until then, we're still trying to understand how the mind works and how to improve the human condition.

...

OR if New-age philosophy is right, we create our reality and choose to live in the world we subconsciously create. idk.


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## AussiePea

Mine helped me an awful lot, so no, they were pretty damn useful actually.


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## TenYears

Good ones are very, very hard to find. I've probably seen...over twenty?...ffs, I'm not even sure anymore. Aren't many good ones out there.


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## Orbiter

The psychologist I have been to in my life have been okay, not perfect but they tried to help me by doing their job, that's all.
I was just too messed up myself to receive that help.


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## UKguy

I think psychiatrists are bigger quacks than psychologists........ simply because they pretend what they do is based on sound scientific reasoning when in reality it is based on big pharma marketing and guess work. 

Psychiatrists hide behind a white coat which makes people believe they are getting something more than what they are. At least most people have a healthy dose of scepticism towards psychologists and counsellors.


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## starburst

I think these guys :-

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/sep/29/what-madness-darian-leader-review
http://www.rossinst.com/about_dr_colin_ross.html

are good psychotherapists, based upon my readings of their books - they seem to be willing to get to the heart of the matter, to really get down and see what is REALLY going wrong with the person, and REALISTICALLY what can be done to mitigate it. ie what virtually no modern day psy's are going to give to anybody, as all they care about is their own salaries and fees.



UKguy said:


> I think psychiatrists are bigger quacks than psychologists........ simply because they pretend what they do is based on sound scientific reasoning when in reality it is based on big pharma marketing


Yes - more $$$ again !!!

Just like NOT curing cancer makes $$$ - the actual cures oppressed !

eg.
Cancer: The Forbidden Cures :-





and many more on YouTube.

Why would they want to CURE our mental disorders when they make $$$ from them by sitting on cosy expensive couches and chatting niceties and selling us extortionately over-priced pills?

*People WAKE UP !!!!*


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## VanDamme

JDsays said:


> I'm making a big assumption and saying a lot of people want to cure their mental health problems, bad relationships, emotional problems the way you would treat a cough. The reality is that's not going to happen soon, or in our lifetime. Psychology has the burden of addressing these issues that we don't really know a whole lot about.
> 
> Neuroscience is at the frontier of giving these immediate, fast results. I think bio-hacking the mind and body is the next level of advancing human development. Until then, we're still trying to understand how the mind works and how to improve the human condition.


I just read a book by a neuroscientis Joseph LeDoux, "Anxious: Using the Brain to Understand and Treat Fear and Anxiety". There's still more to be learned about the brain, but it confirmed why thinking and feeling related issues need to be approached differently (different brain regions are involved). Also, it provided possible explanations for the working of some very effective and efficient methods. Especailly the parts about memory extinction and reconsolidation (i.e. memory update) that can create change so that a certain stimulus won't trigger the fear response.

For those us not interested in waiting around few possibly years or decades, fortunately there are enough apporaches/methods around to explore. Meditation, relaxation, CBT, exposure and other common apporaches didn't work for me (after several years of "practice"). But as I explored further, I got "lucky" and eventually found something that did.

I wrote about those here: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ypnosis-eft-emdr-and-why-cbt-doesn-t-1617410/



JDsays said:


> OR if New-age philosophy is right, we create our reality and choose to live in the world we subconsciously create. idk.


I don't think it's such a simple choice. The subconscious has a lot of power. However, with the right approach, we may be able to influence certain aspects and get different results.


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## meepie

I think psychologists have the hardest jobs. They are underappreciated and not taken seriously. I mean do you expect an anxious, irrational patient thinking their psychologist helps when they are so absorbed in their thoughts, prolly not gonna happen. I think some can do better but at the same time, it's not an easy job. It's like listening to people moan and ***** about their lives 24/7 and eventually you might develop negativity from that. It probably wears them down eventually. ANd you probably get some unstable patients who are inappropriate, angry at you, or even dangerous. I've heard of people burning down their therapist's homes and keying their cars before. It's ridiculous.


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## harrison

meepie said:


> I think psychologists have the hardest jobs. They are underappreciated and not taken seriously. I mean do you expect an anxious, irrational patient thinking their psychologist helps when they are so absorbed in their thoughts, prolly not gonna happen. I think some can do better but at the same time, it's not an easy job. It's like listening to people moan and ***** about their lives 24/7 and eventually you might develop negativity from that. It probably wears them down eventually. ANd you probably get some unstable patients who are inappropriate, angry at you, or even dangerous. I've heard of people burning down their therapist's homes and keying their cars before. It's ridiculous.


Good post Meepie.

I have occasionally been delusional enough to think that I would like to be a therapist. Fortunately I have always come to my senses in time.

Can you imagine actually sitting there and listening to this stuff for 8 hours a day? Holy Crap - I'd want to shoot myself.

I know it's hard to find a good one. But after reading many of the posts on this forum I think they should be payed a lot more than they are. Just for being able to take it.

Poor *******s.


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## Milco

Some people are helped, and that's obviously great. Some people aren't and that's not good. Some people are even hurt, and that's clearly a bad thing.
It's like with medication in a way really. It helps some people, but others it gives too big side-effects.
I haven't had much result from either though.


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## minimized

Well, given my experiences with the for-profit sort of professional... yeah. I don't like it. And I realize even the government-paid ones are a little sketchy.

Too many bad experiences. But I sure am glad someone's mental problems amount to *****ing and moaning to you guys.

Yeah, so no wonder people view us like they do. Even with degrees.

Would you say I deserved it? Even though I hesitate to tell anyone anything? With good reason, obviously!


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## meepie

don said:


> Good post Meepie.
> 
> I have occasionally been delusional enough to think that I would like to be a therapist. Fortunately I have always come to my senses in time.
> 
> Can you imagine actually sitting there and listening to this stuff for 8 hours a day? Holy Crap - I'd want to shoot myself.
> 
> I know it's hard to find a good one. But after reading many of the posts on this forum I think they should be payed a lot more than they are. Just for being able to take it.
> 
> Poor *******s.


Seriously, at the end of the day they are humans too. Sometimes it's also great to get to know your therapist, not you just talk all the time .

There is a thing called therapist burnout and it talks about the dangers of how it affects the therapist's own life:

to self:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout.html#topsychotherapist
to family/children:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout.html#tofamily

It talks about how it affects a therapist's family and personal life. I honestly think being a therapist is one of the most honorable and wonderful jobs out there, but you can't expect them to be perfect.

And to the person above, complaining about your life is like *****ing and moaning. It's an idiom for that, look it up in the dictionary. If you have mental health issues you will complain about your life and be unhappy with it, you're taking too much offense and reading into my post too much. There is nothing wrong with doing that in a therapist office but I'm talking from the therapist perspective, that is what it will seem like to them when they burn out.


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## JDsays

starburst said:


> I think these guys :-
> 
> Why would they want to CURE our mental disorders when they make $$$ from them by sitting on cosy expensive couches and chatting niceties and selling us extortionately over-priced pills?
> 
> *People WAKE UP !!!!*


Really good point. In my experience though a good psychotherapist will set up a X amount of weeks / months to deal with a certain problem.

But really, it's up the person going into psychotherapy how long they want to keep doing the therapy.


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## meepie

Psychiatrists make money because they are MDs who can prescribe medication, but therapists don't. Just a heads up. The average mental health professional isn't rolling in dough.

That being said, I'm off to head to my wonderful therapist who at the least listens to me complain about my life and offer me a lot of empathy and wonderful resources, while her 25 year old daughter has died in a car crash. So not useless, and she will not fit this generalization.


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## minimized

meepie said:


> Seriously, at the end of the day they are humans too. Sometimes it's also great to get to know your therapist, not you just talk all the time .
> 
> There is a thing called therapist burnout and it talks about the dangers of how it affects the therapist's own life:
> 
> to self:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout.html#topsychotherapist
> to family/children:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout.html#tofamily
> 
> It talks about how it affects a therapist's family and personal life. I honestly think being a therapist is one of the most honorable and wonderful jobs out there, but you can't expect them to be perfect.
> 
> And to the person above, complaining about your life is like *****ing and moaning. It's an idiom for that, look it up in the dictionary. If you have mental health issues you will complain about your life and be unhappy with it, you're taking too much offense and reading into my post too much. There is nothing wrong with doing that in a therapist office but I'm talking from the therapist perspective, that is what it will seem like to them when they burn out.


Person?

I really don't know what you mean anyway.


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## coeur_brise

It's kind of funny you mention this. Sometimes psychologists can't look into your mind, but at the same time, they do have to use psychobabble. It kind of fits the job. Lots of times, I suppose because quietness on the patient's part, they won't see a pressing matter or if they do, they might try to solve it for you. Or not solve it at all. It's a delicate balance, for sure. 

Anyway, what I really wanted to mention is that I'm seeing a new psychologist who, well-meaningly asked whether I preferred he talk a lot or a little. When I circled "a lot" on the sheet, he then proceeded to dominate the conversation. I couldn't get in a peep. I was listening to him! I guess psychologists are funny like that. You're a subject, a case, a "human" but yet its not entirely professional to advise or inject personal opinion which a lot of people will respond to sometimes in a good way. :/

Ok. So you're depressed. I need to find out your history, family, name, number, assume it has affected you or make a conclusion and voilà, I've figured it out. You're depressed.

Edit: perhaps I should see a prison psychologist. They could probably diffuse a situation pretty quickly. That is, the situation up here (points to head).


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## JohnnyE

Madara Uchiha said:


> I want your opinions.
> I have been to various different therapists over the years and I always made the same experience that basically they were ABSOLUTELY useless. The "advice" they gave if I may even call it so were so absolutely shallow and banal that basically ANY human could have given them. Some advice were okay but really NOTHING special at all. I could as well have talked to a drunk guy in a pub he might have said exactly the same things.
> I was always wondering WHERE EXACTLY is the great psychological wisdom? When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came. I seriously ask myself what do these people go to the university for? What do they learn there when the stuff which comes out of their mouths is simply gibberish?
> 
> I think psychologists are absolutely over-paid and useless. They make way too much money simply sitting on their asses and saying a few trivial things every now on then.


You have to get lucky I'd say. It depends what kind of "therapist" you mean and if they're qualified or not. I got an excellent therapist for about a year, really knew his stuff and was one of the nicest people I've ever met. I've had another one who was really good too, but he was more of a counselor type of guy.

Both of these guys had a lot of experience themselves which I think is the key here - they both had drug/alcohol addictions in the past and know what it's like to be depressed etc. They really cared about getting you better.

Then again I've had ones who literally didn't do any "therapy" - one actually just talked to me about house prices and what I was going to do in the future? It was supposed to be CBT - what? lol


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## starburst

Cracked: Why Psychiatry is Doing More Harm Than Good, James Davies

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cracked-Psy..._UL160_SR104,160_&refRID=182E6RJ50NZV0F3XGW16

The Myth of Mental Illness, Thomas S. Szasz

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Myth-Me...=_SL500_SR90,135_&refRID=0PKWH4Y3ANG7WXXKHVXA


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## SwtSurrender

I always had this feeling inside of me that I would be a great psychologist ever since I started prozac and ever since I've been seeing my psychologists and dealing with psychiatrists in my life. It just seems like a very easy job, you just need to be able to connect with the patients, maybe you can't connect with yours and that's why you feel that way. They can't read our minds, but they do understand alot about our behaviours and human values and the brain and our place in the world. It's ****ing interesting ****. I was taken aback, I feel like I can connect with people, I can feel it in my bones!


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## naes

dreamingmind said:


> I always had this feeling inside of me that I would be a great psychologist ever since I started prozac and ever since I've been seeing my psychologists and dealing with psychiatrists in my life. It just seems like a very easy job, you just need to be able to connect with the patients, maybe you can't connect with yours and that's why you feel that way. They can't read our minds, but they do understand alot about our behaviours and human values and the brain and our place in the world. It's ****ing interesting ****. I was taken aback, I feel like I can connect with people, I can feel it in my bones!


People go to psychologists because they think that the psychologist can fix them, not to have a fake friend for an hour a week... In all reality it is a charlatan practice preying on the weak and gullible.. This is why the OP and many others (including myself) have such a bad view on clinical psychology..


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## Damon

dreamingmind said:


> I always had this feeling inside of me that I would be a great psychologist ever since I started prozac and ever since I've been seeing my psychologists and dealing with psychiatrists in my life. It just seems like a very easy job, you just need to be able to connect with the patients, maybe you can't connect with yours and that's why you feel that way. They can't read our minds, but they do understand alot about our behaviours and human values and the brain and our place in the world. It's ****ing interesting ****. I was taken aback, I feel like I can connect with people, I can feel it in my bones!


 wow! You would be perfect for the job. I think you should go for it. Pretty sure you would fit right in. I think you're just like every psychologist I saw when I was younger. :teeth


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## JustALonelyHeart

Let me tell you about what I think about psychologist.In theory they are supposed to be there to help people, right?
But they don't help.Most of them, don't.I went seeing a therapist when I was a child upon having being bullied when I was 9.You know what?That psychologist was great.Helped me.But the one I saw as I turned into a high school dropout and which my mother made me see...was horrible.Didn't even properly listened to me, only cared about diagnosing me, trying to drug me, only caring about "appearances" aka "look, I'm doing my job, I discovered what's wrong with this kid".With my social anxiety I know I need help but I would not see a therapist/psychologist.I know they would only give ****ty advice and maybe try to put me on meds or worse.I hate them.Even the ****ing stupid *** psychiatrist handling my mother is doing a poor job.He put her on meds that initially seemed to make her better now she's worse and tried to attempt suicide.And it's for nothing trying to change the psychiatrist cause they're all the damn same.As someone said before, the mental health care system is terrible.It's a mess, in ruins.So what are we supposed to do?Only thing we can do is rely on each other and cope the best way we can.


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## JohnDoe26

I remember hearing a study done some time ago that found people got more help by talking to someone acting as a friend (listening to their problems, offering support) than they did with a psychiatrist. 

Personally I never found them at all helpful except with dispensing meds. I think the entire idea that it's actually a science is questionable.


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## VanDamme

JohnDoe26 said:


> Personally I never found them at all helpful except with dispensing meds. I think the entire idea that it's actually a science is questionable.


It's interesting that science is not about the truth ... but the closest approximation of the truth. That's why we have theories based on current understanding but if new information comes along then the theory can be updated.

I remember a psychiatrist saying that psychiatry is the only medical profession that doesn't actually look at the organ that it's trying to treat. While there have been great advancements in brain imaging, there's still a long way to go in terms of full understanding. That may take a few decades and until then the scientific understanding and diagnostics will be limited and will involve much uncertainty and trial and error.


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## SwtSurrender

naes said:


> People go to psychologists because they think that the psychologist can fix them, not to have a fake friend for an hour a week... In all reality it is a charlatan practice preying on the weak and gullible.. This is why the OP and many others (including myself) have such a bad view on clinical psychology..


Well my psychologists gave up on me when I wasn't talking to them, then they sent me to psychiatrist to be put on SSRIs. So in a way, if you don't talk to psychologists they can't help you! Since I can talk now that I am taking prozac, I just feel like I don't like to go to psychologists who gave up on me in the first place, thus goodbye therapy!


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## mastercowboy

Psychologists are not doctors but they suck big time. As far as doctors most of them are quackers. They get WELL paid for promises and they don't give any guarantee in case their treatment goes wrong. No wonder why so many people want to be docs.


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## Cletis

I've been to a couple of psychiatrists and all they ever did was ask me how I'm feeling and then give me a prescription for some pills.


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## CopadoMexicano

building trust from a clinical psychologist would be tough. I dont even trust my own family or anyone. So much for schemas of mistrust and abuse.


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## Eski

My psychiatrist told me i was a very good looking guy and that i should believe in god and go church to meet women lol. I was like "doc my anxiety is disabling" so he tells me its normal to feel anxious, go church.

My psychologist, 8 sessions in doesnt understand what my problem is, literally asking me "whats your problem exactly?" "well people scare me, talking to people is a nightmare" "so its people eh.. hmmm".

To be honest though, im seeing the psychologist for something im never going to get. Every time i see her she says "so what would you like to put on the agenda today" and i respond with "whatever, ill just go off of you" hoping that shes going to say something thats just going to ding a thing in my mind and cure me, completely rid me of SA but the truth is she can't actually do that.


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## StephCurry

Depends what country you live in.


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## LePassionFlakie

*Some are useless.*



Madara Uchiha said:


> I want your opinions.
> I have been to various different therapists over the years and I always made the same experience that basically they were ABSOLUTELY useless. The "advice" they gave if I may even call it so were so absolutely shallow and banal that basically ANY human could have given them. Some advice were okay but really NOTHING special at all. I could as well have talked to a drunk guy in a pub he might have said exactly the same things.
> I was always wondering WHERE EXACTLY is the great psychological wisdom? When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came. I seriously ask myself what do these people go to the university for? What do they learn there when the stuff which comes out of their mouths is simply gibberish?
> 
> I think psychologists are absolutely over-paid and useless. They make way too much money simply sitting on their asses and saying a few trivial things every now on then.


Most of them aren't useless, however it is best to get a psychologist at a young age. i was diagnosed with Bi-polar/ADHD/Anxiety and if i had no medication to be honest i would've probably killed myself. I still occasionally fall into depression and have such thoughts but they aren't as a bad as they used to be.

When i was 15 my psychologist gave me the option to stop taking medication and it was the worst few months of my life, i failed grade 9, i attempted suicide. and at the same time my Uncle (Never met my fathe/motherr) got stage 4 cancer.

I would say if you are having sever problems that prevent you from your normal funtions get a psychologist. Earlier rather than later, i got a psychologist when i was around 7.


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## schpitt

Its not psychologists that are useless, but the field of psychology itself - in terms of medicine anyway. It should be part of a philosophy degree. Its interesting on an academic level but to pretend it is in any way clinical or practical is downright deceitful. I think that makes it evil considering how vulnerable the people they sell it to are.


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## Invisiblehandicap

You have to be an empath to be a good therapist period. No one is going to believe anything you say when you dont care about thier problems. I had a good psychiatrist who was better at therapy than therapists.


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## andy0128

I had a few councilling sessions 10 years ago when i was at probably my lowest point. Behind with studies, abused by colleagues, no life etc. I didn't come away feeling particularly impressed. I have had more out of using this forum if I'm being honest. My general impression of the healthcare profession is low. There maybe some good professionals out there but many I've found unsympathetic and will send you away with some useless medication and blaming your problems on stress rather than making a proper assessment.


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## AlwaysAlive

psychotherapist > psychologist

My experience with mental health professionals is this: a handful of really good ones, while everyone else is mediocre at best. You really have to look for the right one.


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## Maverick34

Hmm interesting. Maybe you have the wrong psychologist for you. In the past I have only seen a few psychiatrists. I'm wanting to see a "psychologist" because they cannot dispense meds. Therefore I figure they are more skilled at helping us


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## calichick

I'm thinking about becoming a psychologist.


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## Maverick34

calichick said:


> I'm thinking about becoming a psychologist.


May I be your first customer? :wink2:


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## calichick

Maverick34 said:


> May I be your first customer? :wink2:












I dunno, I recall having a conversation a long time ago where Probably Offline was telling me that her dad is a total narcissistic A-hole, and he's a clinical psychologist.

I was thinking, hey, I fit all those criteria, I think I could make decent money off of being a completely narcissistic, brilliant A-hole.

I could even be one of those ones that charges $150 an hour to nod my head and insert comment every 5 minutes.

Cheers.

(I'm just joking I actually think I would be a really good therapist)


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## saline

Complete waste of time.
If they want you to find the answers from within whilst they sit there and say ''and how does that make you feel??'' then why pay them?
You can ask yourself these questions at home for free!
It's a racket. Get paid good money to just sit there like a parrot.
I kind of lost faith when a girl I went to school with who was lovely but rather dense, managed to qualify as an NHS psychologist.
They aren't able to actually 'help'. When I was a kid I thought they had special training and could offer genuine help and tips based on their special knowledge of the human brain, but they know no-such-thing.


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## Maverick34

calichick said:


> I dunno, I recall having a conversation a long time ago where Probably Offline was telling me that her dad is a total narcissistic A-hole, and he's a clinical psychologist.
> 
> I was thinking, hey, I fit all those criteria, I think I could make decent money off of being a completely narcissistic, brilliant A-hole.
> 
> I could even be one of those ones that charges $150 an hour to nod my head and insert comment every 5 minutes.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> (I'm just joking I actually think I would be a really good therapist)


Lol

Good luck! :nerd:


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## ilsr

saline said:


> Complete waste of time.
> If they want you to find the answers from within whilst they sit there and say ''and how does that make you feel??'' then why pay them?
> You can ask yourself these questions at home for free!
> It's a racket. Get paid good money to just sit there like a parrot.
> I kind of lost faith when a girl I went to school with who was lovely but rather dense, managed to qualify as an NHS psychologist.
> They aren't able to actually 'help'. When I was a kid I thought they had special training and could offer genuine help and tips based on their special knowledge of the human brain, but they know no-such-thing.


pretty much useless for SA. they're really only good for prognosing criminal or violent psychotics or retarded and having them locked up to keep the public safe from them. psychology is such a bogus field otherwise considering the world is mentally worse off than ever.


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## Captainmycaptain

The short answer is "yes". The long answer is also "yes". I believe my doctor is evil. I can't prove that, but after leaving his office, I feel completely shook and need to take alcohol, lie in bed and fight off the depression and negative vibes. And mind you, our conversations last only about 10 seconds, but I feel like I'm in the presence of evil.

Me: Hi.
Doctor: No answer.
Me: I would like to get a refill on Lorazepam, a prescription for 75mg of Nardil and Rohypnol for sleep.
Doctor: Okay, wait in the waiting room and I'll write the prescriptions.


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## rm123

I used to want to be a psychologist until I went into therapy. Now I think there must be something to make them all so disconnected and condescending that I don't ever want to be a part of it.

I think the worst one was telling a psychologist over the phone that I was having thoughts of suicide and was drinking again, and he scolded me like a child, "oh c'mon, you're going to have to get a handle on that aren't you? I mean how do you even KNOW if your meds are working or not?" before telling me that not him or any other therapist will try to help me if I drink. I've never felt more suicidal and hopeless than after that phone call.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Farideh

Yes they are useless as well as therapists. I was really pissed off about having to pay someone just to listen to me talk about my problems. What kind of job is that? You have to pay someone to help you get through depression. This major is definitely crap.


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## Nimander

WillYouStopDave said:


> Think of it this way. It's not even debatable that human beings are inherently selfish creatures. With that out of the way, what motivates a person with higher than average intelligence to want to go into a field that gives them a blank check for messing around with other people's minds?


Assuming I can only list selfish motives, one can be motivated to become a therapist, because he:
- likes solving problems,
- helping people makes him feel good,
- has a great interest in psychology and wants to do a job related to it,
- has low temperament and wants to work in a quiet environment.

It hurts when people think I must be a manipulative person, if I choose to pursue a career in psychology.



Madara Uchiha said:


> You know what I'd like to see a smart *** psychologist who becomes really miserable by having some real problems and then
> finding out that his whole smart *** **** is worth crap.


I'm sure that they did become miserable and had some real problems at some point in their lives. Everyone does.


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## steph22

that's my experience too, but then you could say the same about other types of professionals. i'm sure there's a few decent ones out there somewhere.


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## newboki

Psychologist get money legally and your mother or best friend doesn't that is the only difference.


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## ilsr

There are some that are nice or at least try to pretend to be. Then there are the ones that are condescending and moreso as they get to know you. The worst are the ones that yell , or say you haven't done anything to help yourself. All useless unless you don't mind a paid listener. Maybe there are a few that are effective like an endangered species, but I hadn't seen one as I'm sure many haven't.


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## AllTheSame

It can be reeeeally difficult to find a good therapist, based on my experience. Nine out of ten of the *psychiatrists* I've seen have been competent and have had empathy and an overall willingness to help. Not so with the therapists I've seen, and I've seen quite a few.

I've spent literally thousands of hours in all different kinds of therapy. I think it's something you really have to have a calling for and it's painfully obvious some of them just don't. I can tell they're burned out, have completely run out of empathy if they had any at all to begin with, and just hate what they do. I refuse to waste my time and energy and money on them, I move on.

I also believe you can end up really disliking almost dispising the best ones, and here's why. They're not always there to hold your hand, dry your tears and tell you everything is gonna be alright. I was in a very intense group therapy for quite a few months a while back, and it was against the group rules to pick up a Kleenex box and hand it to someone who was having an emotional meltdown. You'd be asked to leave. And the therapist that ran the group never did it. It was to prevent people in the group from being enablers, or from being an emotional crutch. You were expected to get through your own pain and dry your own tears. While that may sound ridiculous I agree with the premise (we always exchanged plenty of hugs after group was over btw). A good therapist won't preach. Instead of giving you the answers they'll make you look inside yourself for them, and that can be a very painful sometimes scary somewhat frustrating process. A good one won't always give you the answers even if they have them. They'll make you search for them. A good one will sometimes jump all over that one issue that scares the hell out of you the most...that one that's the most painful thing in the entire world that you'd give your right arm to not have to talk about...they'll grill you about that relentlessly until you open up and talk about and deal with it.

The three best therapists I ever had were really just amazing to watch, they were I think born to do it, they were ****** geniuses at what they did. But there were times when I felt like I hated them.


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## kl323

Yea, I completely agree that psychologists and therapists are incredibly expensive, and a lot of them don't help at all! I've seen countless therapists for my anxiety throughout the years, all of whom cost at least $150 per session. I always feel like I'm throwing away money and that they are just listening without helping. Recently, I started exploring the possibility of online therapy because it's cheaper & more accessible. I signed up for online therapy through the company Talkspace about five months ago, and I'm super happy with it so far. It's way more affordable & convenient for me. Worth checking out I think.


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## KuronekoX

Yep, all they you is generic advice easily found on the internet. I would recommend looking for other support like family. My family has given more far more support than a psychologist ever could in a million years.


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## Junebuug

Once I warmed up to my therapist and went in with an open mind and ready to communicate it made all the difference in the world. My PSYCHIATRIST on the other hand, well.. she's pretty much just there to monitor my health once a month


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## saline

I just kind of don't get it.
How can they help?
What can they tell you that you don't already know or have read on various sites?
We all know what we should be doing and what's wrong with us, but we can't change. I don't see how a therapist can help you 'change'.

Medication at least makes some sense to me (not that i've ever tried)


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## catcharay

Personally I think they have a place in this world esp for helping to process emotion so it's not repressed (grieving etc)But not for irrational behaviour thoughts and feelings. Talking about problems enduringly is so pointless when you consciously know what you have to do. They offer the service of as a sound board in my situation. They are good if you don't have friends with the virtue of listening


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## WillYouStopDave

Nimander said:


> Assuming I can only list selfish motives, one can be motivated to become a therapist, because he:
> - likes solving problems,
> - helping people makes him feel good,


 Fair enough. So let me ask you this; How do you think a person who is motivated by those particular things would react when they reach the limits of the problems they can solve without being abusive and oppressive?

I think such people could easily convince themselves that they're doing it for the "right reasons" even if the patients are not grateful. Again, these are fundamentally selfish motives. If you are motivated by the desire to solve problems and help people, you are probably not going to want to face it when you fail. Because people who like to solve problems tend to believe they are good at it, it almost certainly damages their ego when they encounter a problem they can't solve within the confines of a certain set of ethics.

So, because they are generally far more intelligent than the average person in that way, they can probably make up very plausible excuses and mindlessly sophisticated rationales for going farther than they're really supposed to.



> It hurts when people think I must be a manipulative person, if I choose to pursue a career in psychology.


 I think most people are manipulative when they need to be. It should not hurt to recognize a basic truth about humans in general.

At any rate, I am not really saying that every single person who goes into this field is eventually going to step over the line. I'm just saying the temptation is definitely a valid concern. Because people are people and psychologists are just people.

I think we're either going to be wrestling with these types of ethical questions for a very long time or we're going to not be allowed to even discuss it because people don't really WANT to confront them as valid points.


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## harrison

A therapist told me once that statistically speaking the most important and beneficial part of therapy was the rapport you have with your therapist. He was a psychologist and one of the best I'd ever seen - very highly qualified, very bright, perceptive, and understanding. I've seen many doctors, shrinks, therapists and nurses - I actually have a great deal of respect for them, even if I haven't felt that they always helped.

Sometimes it's very reassuring just to have someone that will listen - and I feel very lucky that I live in a country that will provide that for me if I need it.


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## Carlfrukt

I have had three psychologists and they were all bad. More ignorant than a lot of non educated people. I don't understand how such ignorant people have even gotten their jobs.


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## sheblushed

This one therapist I went to ONCE for like half an hour was the ****tiest therapist I could've ever imagined. She ripped me off 50 euro. This woman was beyond useless. And the fact she wasn't ashamed to take my money? She probably felt no shame at all. Stupid woman. I should probably give her a bad review on the internet. (I would've never made an appointment with her, my mom did. Which is kind, I guess. She couldn't have possibly known how much the therapist would suck.)


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## whereistheoffswitch

I'm 50/50 on this - 
I've never seen a psychologist (I was supposed to) but I would probably have the same rough view of them as I used to have for doctors and that view is that they really don't give a ****, it's all about the money. However, living with this SA etc crap for over a decade actually makes me want to probe further and I now find how intereseting and diverse the mind/brain can be and I wouldn't mind trying to go to Uni and get into a job such as psychology etc. 
The money can be pretty good for certain health professionals and some might argue that this is the primary motive for people to become said professionals. The amount of studying and dedication (especailly if you're not the smartest of people or naturally gifted etc) does however swing me back to maybe some of them really DO want to help and do give a ****.
Every walk of life has people that don't care and can't be trusted, and people that DO care and ARE trustworthy so hopefully you'll get someone that is from the latter


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## Resergence

To be honest I agree psychologist are ****. Since they know how to pull strings with people that have various problems e.g SA,ADHD etc they will keep making some excuse to bring you back so they can make a quick cash grab and its honestly useless.

Do yourself a favor just try to break out of your comfit zone a bit and cure any problems you may have like SA is a start that takes time but once you are able to get rid of that the world is your oyster.


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## ScorchedEarth

Seems to me we're still in the dark ages of psychology. It's all guesswork, and they don't seem to have any idea of what will work for any particular person. The horror stories I've read are legion. Seems to be that you have to spend a fortune on trial and error, finding someone that knows what they're doing *and* that gives a **** *and* that you are ''compatible'' with. Either that or they drug the personality out of you, with awful side effects. It does sound like sometimes the patient is unwilling to do what's necessary but guess what, unwillingness and inability to cooperate can also be due to the mental illness. So you're borked, and the only one who is supposed to be able to help you, cannot. For some cases there really may not be any acceptable solution.


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## MovingTargetsAreTheWorst

Why beat around the bush? Yes. They and all their counselor variants are.

My GP, who is old-school and top-notch, has nothing positive to say about therapists and agrees with me that psychiatrists are more interested in getting paid outrageous sums for 15-minute med checks than actually trying to treat a human being. He's a better therapist and more capable handler of my meds than any of the people that specialize in those areas.

I can't think of any other field that would tolerate the inefficiency and failure rate of these people. Certainly not in the medical field. In my field, engineering, end users would die left and right from such poor success rates at solving problems by the engineers.

It's a bubble they live in. And regardless of their intentions, they have a constant source of food to sustain themselves in the form of truly desperate people who want HELP, for God's sake. If we could just come up with the answer ourselves with a little talking, we'd have already done it, YOU SNAKES.


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## VeMuñeca

It depends. The last therapist I saw was good, but all she kept wanting to talk to me about was academics. I wasn't coming there twice a week and paying $30 dollars a week to discuss academics. I wanted to talk about my personal problems, but she kept redirecting the topic. And I couldn't help but to feel like she kept trying to pressure me to study something I had no interest in. So I stopped seeing her.


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## RockNroses

Yep most therapists are useless, but if you're willing to spend money then look up some good psychologists, you can even do it online, read reviews of their patients to at least have an idea on the way they work.


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## Vulnicura

I've gone to two therapists and they were both a waste of time. Self help via the use of books is what i'd recommend, but then again to this day i'm procrastinating. The idea of a therapist is good in that it can look like a glimmer of hope to go outside and talk to someone about your problems but....

After my experiences i don't regret not majoring in psychology and going to school for 6+ years just to be an arguably useless peep.


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## AngelicAngel21

Therapy is the most useless crap in the world. Right now I'm on second therapist. I hate dbt therapy with a passion. The only thing they seem to teach are avoidance techniques which does nothing for you in the real world. Avoiding problems doesn't solve anything. The only thing they're good for is having someone to talk to but lately I'm finding a brick wall to be more beneficial.

~* Master Black Puppeteer. Spade of all Spades *~


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## Dreaming1111

Yeah I think I remember reading that psychologists, therapists, and psychiatrists only have a limited affect dealing with any particular issues. I don't doubt there are good ones but hard to find as was already said. I remember one of my therapists stopped seeing patients because she was having issues and recommended another. This other therapist made me so uncomfortable I never saw her again and that ended any progress I had been making. Whenever I started with new therapists I felt like I would make progress for a while but then the progress would inevitably stop. 

Currently trying Hypnotherapy but have no clue if it will do any good. The first session was a bit underwhelming but I will continue. I'm just going through a rough time anxiety wise and really don't want to medicate because that just seems like a band aid solution.


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## Mr A

I believe Psychology is great in theory, but in practice it rarely helps.

It helps to see it from their perspective I think. One day, they decided they wanted to become a Psychologist, so they underwent Psychology classes in college, learning about The Psyche, Ego Defenses, Personality Disorders etc. all whilst praising their personal bible of mental disorders -- the ICD-10/DSM. Now, once they're trained, they get a job at some outpatient clinic, where they are assigned certain patients to help based on their past knowledge, and they help them the best they can.

Only to find that, time after time, their methods don't really work in the real world. Feeling under pressure about the fact that they may have just wasted their time in college, they begin to become frustrated, and shift the blame to their patient, because the reality that they don't know how to legitimately help others (psychoanalyzing them doesn't really work) is too difficult to accept. It's actually been speculated by some that many psychologists either have a Cluster B personality disorder themselves, or have covert narcissism.

They use their psychobabble and labeling of others to make themselves feel superior (see: _"language and speaking used for regulating self-esteem"_). They put themselves in a position of unquestionable power, where they interact with emotionally and mentally vulnerable people, because they know it's unlikely that they will face any backlash, and so they can continue to freely condescend them. If your issues are any less than the other clients of which they are used to dealing with, they "aren't that severe". At the same time, if you don't agree with what they say, or challenge the Psychotherapy trade in general, they will become offended and possible even pull the "too ill for therapy" crap, so they don't have to accept that they are under-qualified (which would be a hit to their self-esteem).


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## Dreaming1111

3 sessions into Hypnotherapy and I don't think it's helping. I know it's too soon to tell but what put me off is the therapist asked me if I wanted to continue my sessions? (I'd been saying I might want to get on medication because I'm going through a rough time.) Maybe she thought my issues were beyond her. I thought there was something to this Hypnotherapy thing. I've already done the talking therapy bit with about 4 different therapists but not much improvement. Trust me I try to practice what they ask me to do but I think I've just not found the right therapist.


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## Maslow

I was in group therapy a while back. One of the therapists told me that my SAD was a lot worse than everyone else's in the group. 

She was a little weird. I think she was lying when she said she was married with children. It didn't look like a wedding ring on her finger.


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## Humesday

Most of the therapists and psychiatrists I've had have either been harmful or useless. One was okay. One helped me destroy my life by diagnosing me with something I didn't have.


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## InTheWorldOfNiM

I really don't see how therapy is of any use to people with social anxiety disorder. social anxiety disorder is a physiological problem. The therapy could only do so much. The treatment most therapist offer, is no better than the advise you find on the internet. For most people with social anxiety disorder, A therapist is either really annoying, or useless (mostly that is). there are some good ones that help us feel comfortable and motivated to tackle our conditions but there's only so much that will help. it's never going to change your core being, the treatments could help allow your core being to be a little more flexible or more malleable but it will never truly aid in the obliteration of your social anxiety like a drug will.


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## TheLastShy

I think even an old woman in a bus point can give you better advice. Also for free.


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## LydiaC

Wow reading this is shocking. I'm a psychology student myself. First let me say, psychologists DO NOT just do this for the money. It's a good 10 years of study/endorsements that are required to become registered. That's thousands of dollars in university fees, in paying for a supervisor, in paying for supervision, in paying for registration, licenses etc., If i was to go into a career for money it sure as hell wouldn't be that. 

Secondly, psychologists can only do so much. They cannot wave a magic wand and solve problems, that's not what they're there to do. They're there to empower people to make decisions and set goals and make change. A huge part of that is providing support and building rapport, not just the psychotherapies being used. But also, it's a two way thing. Clients need to be willing to talk and disclose in order for the psychologist to work on that. 

I think that each psychologist is different though and uses different therapies. I myself am not a big fan of CBT, and for something like anxiety I think an acceptance commitment therapy approach is better (unfortunately CBT is the dominant approach). Also exposure therapy and hypnotherapy as others have described. We're all different, one approach may not work on another person. The best thing to do is to keep on trying different approaches. 

Of course I understand that this isn't always possible. Psychologists can be expensive to see. I just wanted to post this to encourage people not to be discouraged from seeing one from this post. I once had bad depression and anxiety, i saw a counsellor and 2 psychologists before I finally saw a great counsellor who helped me with a different approach. I can't imagine where I'd be if i gave up the first time.


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## greentea33

I completely agree op. Drunk guys in pubs give way better advice. Especially if they are like 80 and still going strong.


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## harrison

LydiaC said:


> Wow reading this is shocking. I'm a psychology student myself. First let me say, psychologists DO NOT just do this for the money. It's a good 10 years of study/endorsements that are required to become registered. That's thousands of dollars in university fees, in paying for a supervisor, in paying for supervision, in paying for registration, licenses etc., If i was to go into a career for money it sure as hell wouldn't be that.
> 
> Secondly, psychologists can only do so much. *They cannot wave a magic wand and solve problems, that's not what they're there to do.* They're there to empower people to make decisions and set goals and make change. *A huge part of that is providing support and building rapport*, not just the psychotherapies being used. But also, it's a two way thing. Clients need to be willing to talk and disclose in order for the psychologist to work on that.
> 
> I think that each psychologist is different though and uses different therapies. I myself am not a big fan of CBT, and for something like anxiety I think an acceptance commitment therapy approach is better (unfortunately CBT is the dominant approach). Also exposure therapy and hypnotherapy as others have described. We're all different, one approach may not work on another person. The best thing to do is to keep on trying different approaches.
> 
> Of course I understand that this isn't always possible. Psychologists can be expensive to see. I just wanted to post this to encourage people not to be discouraged from seeing one from this post. I once had bad depression and anxiety, i saw a counsellor and 2 psychologists before I finally saw a great counsellor who helped me with a different approach. I can't imagine where I'd be if i gave up the first time.


I'm glad to see this post here - and I think you're probably right.

I've spoken to quite a few psychologists in my time and have usually found they haven't been able to help me much. But I also realise that what they can do has it's limits. Then there are the more complex issues like their ability to communicate effectively, my willingness to actually try and change, how much of the problem is biological and _can_ actually be changed etc.

I'm actually planning on contacting a psychologist I saw last year again today. He was the best I've ever seen and I need the support now. I remember he told me last time that the most important thing in therapy is the rapport between the patient and therapist. I found that quite interesting.


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## Overdrive

It's just from your perpective, therapist are not magician, it's up to you to get better.
Even the smartest therapist would not make you better.


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## vela

I guess I just got lucky? I've been seeing the same psychologist for over eight years now and she's been such a huge help for me. Sure I still have serious problems, but I have made a lot of progress in a lot of areas. She's helped me realize so much about myself. I honestly don't know where I'd be without her. She's opened my mind about so many things. I'm dealing with stuff today that I had buried for what seems like forever. 

Although I do understand having terrible experiences with therapists. I've had some bad ones myself. Like the on guy who decided that being confrontational with me was the answer to my problems. I fired his butt so fast! 

My therapist actually treats me with respect. We joke around, and even talk about stuff like science, movies, and politics. I get along better with her than my own family. lol

So if you have had crappy therapists, please keep trying. Eventually you just might find an awesome one who can really help you!


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## Flutterlee

I haven't read all the posts. but I'm a person pursuing a counseling degree myself. I'll have a counseling license and can be considered a "therapist" in the future. From what I hear these therapists or psychologists were doing so much harm by being so quick to label. I think the DSM 5 plays a part. Mainly we would have to give a diagnosis in some cases just because of insurance. So that the person can financially still receive care. Its unfortunately a thing we can't get out of unless some things change. But personally I don't believe in labeling people with a "disorder" and the field is working on changing the language. And placing the person first. By not placing fault on the person for having issues that they have. Also sounds like these counselors from the experiences of the posters on this thread were not empathic and not truly understanding the client's world. That is the absolute essential basic part every counselor must have to be successful. I truly hope i never do any of the things that any of you experienced. I want to help ppl be successful and be their best selves.


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