# Starting memantine tomorrow



## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Tomorrow i'm starting memantine at 5mg, i'm planning to go up every 3 or 4 days untill i reach 20mg a day.

I'm hoping the memantine will work for OCD, GAD and anhedonia, i'm also gonna test it for its tolerance preventing capabilities.

I'm expecting some bad brainfog the first 2 weeks once i'm upping my dose, after that i should be able to expect cognitive improvement.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

i'm not agree with NMDA antagonists. researchers are using NMDA agonists(cycloserine) to speed up the process of substitution of early under-stress learning and distorted memories with new ones while we are searching for ways to stop tolerance to benzos and opiates using NMDA antagonists!!! i think benzos, opiates and stimulants shouldn't be regarded as long-term treatment. it seems they only cause a temporary relief not a real treatment.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> i'm not agree with NMDA antagonists. researchers are developing ways to speed up the process of substitution of early under-stress learning and distorted memories with new ones with NMDA agonists(cycloserine) while we are searching for ways to stop tolerance to benzos and opiates using NMDA antagonists!!! i think benzos, opiates and stimulants shouldn't be regarded as long-term treatment. it seems they only cause a temporarily relief not a real treatment.


NMDA antagonists are far more promosing then NMDA agonists. Especially memantine looks interesting as its only a partional antagonist and doesnt interfere with normal cognition, it has in fact been shown to enhance cognition [1] and even has been shown to be effective for ADHD [2].
Memantine also looks very promosing for OCD.[3][4][5]

NMDA antagonists have been shown to slow tolerance to opiates [6], benzo's [7] [8] and prevent benzo dependency [9].

Also considering the fact that SSRI/SNRI's arent more effective then placebo in most cases, i have no idea what alternative we would have.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Ehsan said:


> i'm not agree with NMDA antagonists. researchers are using NMDA agonists(cycloserine) to speed up the process of substitution of early under-stress learning and distorted memories with new ones while we are searching for ways to stop tolerance to benzos and opiates using NMDA antagonists!!! i think benzos, opiates and stimulants shouldn't be regarded as long-term treatment. it seems they only cause a temporary relief not a real treatment.


I think it's a far better idea than taking the likely neurotoxic NMDA agonists [considering that NMDA antagonists are neuroprotective / anti-excitotoxic]. Also, tolerance can be prevented, as crazyMed pointed out. I've heard quite a few long-term success stories with tolerance prevention, not to mention the scientific evidence.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

since running out of memantine i feel terrible....my new order of it it should come tomorrow hopefully, but my dexedrine, caffeine, and nicotine doesnt work at all, im super depressed and iriitable without memantine. even if i was on a super small dose, it was doing something


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Did you feel like that on just the other meds without memantine?


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> NMDA antagonists are far more promosing then NMDA agonists. Especially memantine looks interesting as its only a partional antagonist and doesnt interfere with normal cognition, it has in fact been shown to enhance cognition [1] and even has been shown to be effective for ADHD [2].
> Memantine also looks very promosing for OCD.[3][4][5]
> 
> NMDA antagonists have been shown to slow tolerance to opiates [6], benzo's [7] [8] and prevent benzo dependency [9].
> ...


i have not seen any use of NMDA antagonists in SAD. NMDA antagonists can stop fear learning but this is useful only before developing SAD. i think it's better to improve emotional learning in SAD treatment to achieve permanent results. however this should be done after reducing stress and controlling anxiety sources coz learning under chronic stress and anxiety causes SAD itself. memantine is also a D2 agonist , ... that may be useful in ADHD,OCD.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> i have not seen any use of NMDA antagonists in SAD. NMDA antagonists can stop fear learning but this is useful only before developing SAD. i think it's better to improve emotional learning in SAD treatment to achieve permanent results. however this should be done after reducing stress and controlling anxiety sources coz learning under chronic stress and anxiety causes SAD itself. memantine is also a D2 agonist , ... that may be useful in ADHD,OCD.


I didnt claim memantine would work for social anxiety, its only found to be effective for depression, OCD and GAD. MgluR5 antagonists are for more interesting for social anxiety (acamprosate works trough that receptor and would be an interesting add on with memantine).

Its unlikely that D2 agonism explains the therapeutic effects of memantine considering that NMDA has been implicated in OCD and another med riluzole which decreases glutamate is effective for the same disorders as memantine.
Dopamine agonists also arent seen as very effective for ADHD.
NMDA antagonists are meds i really beleive in, unlike SSRI/SNRI's which is a load of quackery.

Some ppl may benefit from therapy but not everyone, recently it has been shown that therapy isnt of added benefit for patients with chronic depression, also many ppl just have a lack of reward in social situations, this cant be fixed with therapy.
I and many others have been exposing ourselves for years without any benefit.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Did you feel like that on just the other meds without memantine?


yup. last summer when i was taking Adderal and nicotine gum all the time, i felt abosolutly horrible. and when i was on Parnate by itself, i didnt feel horrible, but i didnt feel too good, either. my combo of memantine + parnate really seems to enhance the dexedrine, and make it work every day, and since i also use lotsa nicotine gum and caffiene and Klonopin, and agomelatine sometimes, its all quite a nice combo....but the memantine is like a really crucial part, because without memantine i get irritable, depressed,and most of all, my OCD goes like insane and i get 10 times more neurotic than i usually am .... i just dont feel like myself anymore without memantine....its a weird unstable insecure feeling. im taking NAC and magnesium but it doesnt quite cut it......i think ill keep taking NAC tho, even once i get memantine and start it agian. NAC helps me alot, predictably.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Nac seems to have a weird mechanism of action:


> N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is an amino acid derivative that stimulates the glial cystine/glutamate exchanger and leads to elevated extracellular glutamate levels. This rise in glutamate levels in the extrasynaptic space activates inhibitory mGluR2 receptors that dampen synaptic release of glutamate from neurons [145]. This mechanism of action prompted a case study of NAC in combination with the SSRI fluvoxamine in treatment-refractory OCD that yielded evidence for significant improvement in OCD symptoms [146]. Larger, well controlled studies are needed to further explore the potential of NAC in treating OCD symptoms. Since elevating extracellular/extrasynaptic glutamate by stimulating cystine exchange could also activate NMDA receptors similar to spillover effects of synaptically released glutamate [147], this aspect should not be overlooked in searching for the appropriate therapeutic dose of NAC.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746669/

So it actually raises glutamate wich leads to agonism of the mglur2 receptors (which are good glutamate receptors).

Theoretically could be a very good adjunct with memantine.


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## JPars (Apr 18, 2009)

I myself found memantine somewhat motivating... it was also mildly helpful for depression. I'm not sure that it helped my OCD symptoms that much but that could be due to it's D2 agonist properties. Though, after a while maybe those receptors become desensitized and it doesn't matter anyways.

It's definitely something I would have continued to take if it weren't for the memory problems I experienced with it. Yes, it did get better, but never completely went away. I started at 5mg/day and went up to 10mg/day, I took it for maybe 2 months. I went back down to 5mg but still didn't want to put up with the memory issues since I'm trying to tackle college right now.

But, if the memory problems don't bother you it's a good drug I think.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Doesn't Glutamate/NMDA antagonism cause motor discoordination, memory disruption, and blackouts though?


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

JPars said:


> But, if the memory problems don't bother you it's a good drug I think.


ya the memory problems were insane.....i started 5mg on December 7th, and then like i woke up at about Christmas, and i couldnt remember what happened the last 2 weeks. i could still remember a few select events, but it was scary, i started thinking that i had gotten in a car accident, like the 50 First Dates thing......but it got better, and by now my memory is actually alot better. but it was really profound while it lasted...it was like being in a semi coma for a couple weeks, then i suddenly realized how much my memory was screwed.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jim_morrison said:


> Doesn't Glutamate/NMDA antagonism cause motor discoordination, memory disruption, and blackouts though?


Because memantine only is a partial antagonist it only causes a temporary decrease in short term memory and memory formation after which you can expect an increase in cognition.
Some ppl report it could take 6 weeks before any decrease in cognition is fully gone.

This mice study also shows a cognitive improving and anxiolotic effect of memantine with *chronic* dosing.


> Cognition-enhancing and anxiolytic effects of memantine
> 
> Minkeviciene R, Banerjee P, and Tanila H (2008). Neuropharmacology 54(7):1079-85.
> 
> Memantine, a moderate-affinity NMDA receptor antagonist, is clinically used for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Both clinical and preclinical studies have shown that memantine, at doses producing a steady-state plasma level of 0.5-1muM, is well tolerated and improves cognition. Here we tested the effects of chronic oral administration of memantine (10, 30 and 100mg/kg per day) producing steady state plasma drug levels ranging between approximately 0.5and 6muM on motor, social, emotional and cognitive behavior in normal C57BL/6J mice. Memantine dose-dependently reduced escape latency (hidden platform) and decreased wall swimming tendency in the Morris water maze test, increased time spent in open arms in the elevated plus-maze test, and reduced the number of isolation-induced aggressive attacks, but did not affect exploratory activity in the open field. These data indicate that high, stable doses of memantine improved cognition and exhibited a potential anxiolytic response in normal mice.





> Therapeutically relevant plasma concentrations of memantine produce significant NMDA receptor occupancy and do not impair learning in rats
> 
> More, L, G N J, Valastro B, Greco S, and Danysz W (2008). Behav Pharmacol 19, 724-734.
> 
> Subchronic treatment with memantine using osmotic pumps in male rats was used to verify whether plasma levels significantly blocking L-N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors (and shown previously to be neuroprotective) may impair learning. Treatment with 6.27, 12.5 and 18.8 mg/rat/day provided plasma levels of 1.03+/-0.08, 5.07+/-0.68 and 11.68+/-0.90 micromol/l. Only the lowest plasma level is therapeutically relevant and has previously been shown to be neuroprotective. Significant deficits in a passive avoidance task were only observed at the highest dose. Working memory, tested as spontaneous alternation in the cross maze, was impaired by the middle and highest doses, and these doses also induced hyperlocomotion. Microdialysis experiments with in-vivo recovery (27.4%) showed that infusion of memantine at 6.27 mg/rat/day (ca. 23 mg/kg/day) produced a concentration of 990+/-105 nmol/l in extracellular fluid. In-vivo NMDA receptor occupancy experiments demonstrated significant, dose-dependent receptor occupancy of 32.7 and 65.7% by memantine at the doses producing 1 and 5 micromol/l plasma levels, respectively. Moreover, acute administration (2.5 mg/kg intraperitoneally) of memantine to mature female rats produced approximately two-fold higher plasma levels than in young male rats. In conclusion, a dose of memantine which produces a plasma level (1 micromol/l) within the therapeutic range, reported previously to be neuroprotective, leads to intracellular brain levels similar to the affinity of memantine for NMDA receptors (receptor binding, patch clamp). This has been also extended by the experiments showing that at this plasma concentration, memantine occupies ca. 30% NMDA receptors in the brain and produces no cognitive impairment.


@JPars
Thats unfortionate it didnt went away for you. Maybe you should have played around with the doses some more (5 or maybe 20mg) some ppl have a differend sweet spot.

Here's an interesting read on memantine:
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/106/6/358


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I only notice some bad brainfog at the moment, i'm suprised how gentle it is, i tought it was going to give me some kind of disiociative feeling.
I'l wait 3 days before i raise my dose tough as blood levels will build up the next 2 days so i could expect more side effects.

As far as OCD, today my mum called our dog needed to die tomorrow at the vet and she was also crying ablout it, offcourse this also stresses me and normally my mind would go crazy about it because i would think the memantine wont work(OCD allways causes such toughts for me) in the end because i'm stressing at the moment and that i need to stop taking it and start again later.

With the memantine its a TON easier to ignore these toughts, they are still there but i could go on with my trial without completely stressing out.

Its too early to make any conclusions now, but this definatly looks promosing.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> yup. last summer when i was taking Adderal and nicotine gum all the time, i felt abosolutly horrible. and when i was on Parnate by itself, i didnt feel horrible, but i didnt feel too good, either. my combo of memantine + parnate really seems to enhance the dexedrine, and make it work every day, and since i also use lotsa nicotine gum and caffiene and Klonopin, and agomelatine sometimes, its all quite a nice combo....but the memantine is like a really crucial part, because without memantine i get irritable, depressed,and most of all, my OCD goes like insane and i get 10 times more neurotic than i usually am .... i just dont feel like myself anymore without memantine....its a weird unstable insecure feeling. im taking NAC and magnesium but it doesnt quite cut it......i think ill keep taking NAC tho, even once i get memantine and start it agian. NAC helps me alot, predictably.


I was just wondering if you were experiencing withdrawals from memantine; it would appear not. I don't think NMDA antagonists cause dependence -- people have reported withdrawals from heavy DXM abuse but IMO that probably doesn't apply to low, therapeutic tolerance-prevention doses, and could be more related to psychological dependence and possible neurotoxicity / general brain disruption.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> I was just wondering if you were experiencing withdrawals from memantine; it would appear not. I don't think NMDA antagonists cause dependence -- people have reported withdrawals from heavy DXM abuse but IMO that probably doesn't apply to low, therapeutic tolerance-prevention doses, and could be more related to psychological dependence and possible neurotoxicity / general brain disruption.


Yeah, ketamine and DXM abuse is messing around with the reward pathways in the brain just like abuse of any other drug does, i wont expect any withdrawal's from therapeutic use.


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## JPars (Apr 18, 2009)

Some of the memory problems in the beginning could also be due to the antagonism of different nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. I believe it only last a few days though maybe before these receptors' sensitivity changes. It's also only a non-competitive antagonist.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

JPars said:


> Some of the memory problems in the beginning could also be due to the antagonism of different nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. I believe it only last a few days though maybe before these receptors' sensitivity changes. It's also only a non-competitive antagonist.


Yeah from what i've read its only 3-4 days of brainfog after each dose raise.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

euphoria said:


> I was just wondering if you were experiencing withdrawals from memantine; it would appear not. I don't think NMDA antagonists cause dependence -- people have reported withdrawals from heavy DXM abuse but IMO that probably doesn't apply to low, therapeutic tolerance-prevention doses, and could be more related to psychological dependence and possible neurotoxicity / general brain disruption.


yeah i dont think its withdrawals.....its just my OCD going crazy (which it already does) but now it actually has a reason to go crazy. but i do think i have too much glutamate in my brain or something like that, cuz ive always felt really good when drinking even a little bit of alcohol or DXM, im probably like one of the most pre-disposed alcoholics in existence.

i am slightly worried that i will lose the cognitive benefits of the memantine, and have 2 go through the Brain fog period agian, which was really scary for me. but i guess it doesnt matter right now, all i have to do is wait for my memantine to come. i wish i could shoot myself with a tranqulizer dart, and wake up when it comes.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I dont notice much side effects today, brainfog seems to be alot less then yesterday.

I wish i had more, i would like to try the memantine in 30mg or 40mg doses to see how it would work. But thats for later i'll need to build up to 20mg first.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Feeling very foggy today, tomorrow i'm going up to 10 mg, i'm hoping that next week i'm up to 20 mg and wil be able to start to notice the benefits.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I went up to 10mg today, will probably stay a while on this dose untill i'm fully adjusted.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

u sure did it alot faster than me. im thinking if i can it would be good for me to just start on 10mg, .....cuz although 5mg was quite effective, why not just start out with 10mg, then itll prevent even more of the Dexedrine tolerance. i dont really think i care that much about the brain fog, cuz the Dexedrine kinda eliminates alot of it....brain fog just mostly makes the days fly by really fast, but i can still think properly, its just my memory is screwed. only 12 hours till my doc appointment, hopefully my p-doc will be feeling very open-minded tomorrow:um


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> u sure did it alot faster than me. im thinking if i can it would be good for me to just start on 10mg, .....cuz although 5mg was quite effective, why not just start out with 10mg, then itll prevent even more of the Dexedrine tolerance. i dont really think i care that much about the brain fog, cuz the Dexedrine kinda eliminates alot of it....brain fog just mostly makes the days fly by really fast, but i can still think properly, its just my memory is screwed. only 12 hours till my doc appointment, hopefully my p-doc will be feeling very open-minded tomorrow:um


I do suggest to start at 5mg and go up every 3 days, as you didnt like the side effects from 5, it will even hit you harder, if you go up every 3 days its more gentle.

I'm allways excited to raise my dose, i would even try to go up to 40mg lol.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

i wouldnt say my P-doc was open-minded....but, she still gave me lotsa medicine, so im good. she has to be the most nicest doctor ive ever had....she keeps giving me samples too which is nice.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Today ive taken 10mg again and the brain fog is getting less bad. I dont seem to have any memory problems at all, just a foggy feeling.

I need to get up to 20 or 30mg.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

So what are you planning to combine it with?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> So what are you planning to combine it with?


Definatly a stimulant, dexedrine would be ideal as on amphetamine i feel completely normal. But i needed the memantine to be able to block tolerance.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

The memantine is doing a good job at controlling my OCD toughts, it also allows me to think more rational.
I'm happy with it.

I'm still at 10mg.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm feeling really calm, my normal toughts are in the foreground on my bull**** OCD toughts are significantly turned down.

Memantine definatly works great.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

my OCD is also significantly decreased, id say it was about a 7-8 (1-10, 10 = worst) before the memantine, and with the memantine, its like a 4-5. it really helps to streamline my thoughts, so that i can focus and think about one thing, instead of always having OCD on the side. Definetly better than SSRIs, without all the terrible useless side effects. It does cause brain fog, but nothing compared to SSRIs.... and the brain fog goes away after a couple days, completely gone after a month. with SSRIs, the brain fog stays, always, never goes away.

im going to make a controversial statement... instead of SSRIs, why not give OCD patients Memantine + Codeine, it would work just as well, no side effects.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> The memantine is doing a good job at controlling my OCD toughts, it also allows me to think more rational.
> I'm happy with it.
> 
> I'm still at 10mg.


that's cool. i definitely remember one of the positive effects was that (for pretty much the first time in my life) i felt like my thoughts were more grounded and solid. i usually spend forever ruminating over the tiniest, insignificant details, but on memantine i actually felt more confident and natural about making decisions, as opposed to just not caring.

i think my mistake was going too high on the dose. 10mg seemed to work well.

im seeing a new pdoc next tuesday and am going to ask to retrial it. im still really depressed though, so think i might have to go on an SSRI as well. if memantine takes care of the brain fog, then i dont mind though.

do you guys find it affects your sleep at all?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> that's cool. i definitely remember one of the positive effects was that (for pretty much the first time in my life) i felt like my thoughts were more grounded and solid. i usually spend forever ruminating over the tiniest, insignificant details, but on memantine i actually felt more confident and natural about making decisions, as opposed to just not caring.
> 
> i think my mistake was going too high on the dose. 10mg seemed to work well.
> 
> ...


I sleep perfectly fine, no problems with it at all.

Yeah thats good about memantine you can still add differend things on top of it.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

i dont get any sleep problems from it, it actually seems to make me sleep better, and it makes me tired during the day. i upped my dose 2 days ago to 10mg, and there was some pretty horrible brain fog, but its better now, almost.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Only seems to make me a bit more tired during the adaptation phase, after that i feel energized.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Memantine seems to be an excellent mood stabliliser too, normally i would feel really depressed if i have to work 8 hours the first few hours, but now my mood basicly stayed the same, i'm also more capable of finding work myself instead of having to ask what to do all the time. It definatly seemed to increase my cognition, and i'm completely side effect free too.

I sounds like a memantine commercial lol, but one thing is for sure, memantine is severely underrated! This med has potential for ALOT of stuff.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

wow, neat stuff. you've got me excited about revisiting this drug. i think at the time i took the benefits for granted; the couple of weeks i spent on it was the first time in over a year where i could pick up and understand a literary theory textbook again. most days i struggle to get through newspaper articles.

i'm just wondering what AD to try it with; i'm meeting with a new psychiatrist on tuesday and am trying to brainstorm. like you say, i think it's a good mood stabilizer and anxiolytic, but not necessarily a decent anti-depressant on its own.

here's a study where it was proven to be synergistic with prozac:



> Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is currently treated with behavioral modification and psychotropic medications, with varying degrees of success. The most popular drugs for the treatment of OCD are the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Another drug, the N-methyl-d-aspartate antagonist memantine, has recently been tested in the treatment of OCD. The present study investigates the effect of fluoxetine and memantine alone and in combination in a mouse model of compulsive behavior. In this model, compulsive scratching is induced by a subcutaneous injection of serotonin or a serotonin releasing agent, compound 48-80, in the back of the neck. The effects of the memantine and fluoxetine combination were found to synergistic, specifically as defined by an isobologram. The results of the present investigation suggest the potential of a more effective management of the symptoms of OCD.


which is the cleanest SSRI in your guys' opinion? i've tried Lexapro, Luvox and Paxil all of which just left me foggy, numb, and more depressed. Prozac felt different, but my psychiatrist at the time took me off it after 4 days due to insomnia.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

crazymed, just curious but what's your rationale behind 20/30mg doses? 

it's hard to find personal accounts on the net - outside of its use in Alzheimer's - but a lot of people seem to do quite well at 10mg. i remember 10mg felt 'right' but then it got weirder as i went higher, and i felt good again as i was withdrawing. apparently the drug is metabolized at different rates based on the pH of your urine, so it might be lingering around longer and accumulating in some peoples' bodies. 

not questioning your authority, but more just personal notes to myself i guess to not give up so quickly this time. everybody seems to have a different sweet spot.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

is there any use of memantine for anxiety disorders?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> crazymed, just curious but what's your rationale behind 20/30mg doses?
> 
> it's hard to find personal accounts on the net - outside of its use in Alzheimer's - but a lot of people seem to do quite well at 10mg. i remember 10mg felt 'right' but then it got weirder as i went higher, and i felt good again as i was withdrawing. apparently the drug is metabolized at different rates based on the pH of your urine, so it might be lingering around longer and accumulating in some peoples' bodies.
> 
> not questioning your authority, but more just personal notes to myself i guess to not give up so quickly this time. everybody seems to have a different sweet spot.


I just want to see wheter i will improve more, if it doesnt work out i'm going back to 10mg. I seem to tolerate it pretty good, never felt weird or something like that, only some brainfog the first 2 days after raising my dose.

And its possible i would need higher doses for proper tolerance prevention.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> is there any use of memantine for anxiety disorders?


I think memantine has some potential for SA but it isnt properly investigated yet.
It does seem to help my anxiety. The best thing that helps my anxiety is stimulation tough (amphetamine's or other stimulants) because i lack a social drive and have anhedonia (memantine helps my anhedonia too tough) but i would definatly need augmentation for my SA.

Its also a 5HT3 antagonist wich has anxiolytic action in rodents so it may help some ppl's SA.

EDIT: This study found anxiolytic actions in rodents, imo it definatly has potential for social anxiety.


> Cognition-enhancing and anxiolytic effects of memantine.
> Minkeviciene R, Banerjee P, Tanila H.
> 
> Department of Neurobiology, A.I.Virtanen Institute for Molecular sciences, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland.
> Memantine, a moderate-affinity NMDA receptor antagonist, is clinically used for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Both clinical and preclinical studies have shown that memantine, at doses producing a steady-state plasma level of 0.5-1 microM, is well tolerated and improves cognition. Here we tested the effects of chronic oral administration of memantine (10, 30 and 100mg/kg per day) producing steady state plasma drug levels ranging between approximately 0.5 and 6 microM on motor, social, emotional and cognitive behavior in normal C57BL/6J mice. Memantine dose-dependently reduced escape latency (hidden platform) and decreased wall swimming tendency in the Morris water maze test, increased time spent in open arms in the elevated plus-maze test, and reduced the number of isolation-induced aggressive attacks, but did not affect exploratory activity in the open field. These data indicate that high, stable doses of memantine improved cognition and exhibited a potential anxiolytic response in normal mice.


Glutamate seems to be involved in social anxiety:


> High-field MRS study of GABA, glutamate and glutamine in social anxiety disorder: response to treatment with levetiracetam.
> Pollack MH, Jensen JE, Simon NM, Kaufman RE, Renshaw PF.
> 
> Psychiatry Department, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02114, United States. [email protected]
> OBJECTIVE: Abnormalities in brain gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) and glutamate may be relevant to the underlying pathophysiology of anxiety disorders including social anxiety disorder (SAD). METHODS: We used proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy (pMRS) to examine whole brain and regional GABA, glutamate and glutamine in patients (N=10) with SAD at baseline compared to a matched group of healthy controls (HC), and changes following 8 weeks of pharmacotherapy with levetiracetam. RESULTS: For SAD subjects, there were significantly higher whole brain levels of glutamate and glutamine, though no significant differences in GABA. In the thalamus, glutamine was higher and GABA lower for SAD subjects. There was a significant reduction in thalamic glutamine with levetiracetam treatment. CONCLUSION: Our findings provide preliminary support for impaired GABAergic and overactive glutamatergic function in social anxiety disorder and the potential relevance of changes in these systems for the anxiolytic response to levetiracetam.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> wow, neat stuff. you've got me excited about revisiting this drug. i think at the time i took the benefits for granted; the couple of weeks i spent on it was the first time in over a year where i could pick up and understand a literary theory textbook again. most days i struggle to get through newspaper articles.
> 
> i'm just wondering what AD to try it with; i'm meeting with a new psychiatrist on tuesday and am trying to brainstorm. like you say, i think it's a good mood stabilizer and anxiolytic, but not necessarily a decent anti-depressant on its own.
> 
> ...


If prozac was differend id retry it, maybe talk about getting a benzo or something else to sleep the first few days. If prozac doesnt work out its time to go a differend route.

The good thing about memantine is that it still leaves all options open to try so you can augment it with anything.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Glutamate seems to be involved in social anxiety:


how we can reduce glutamate and glutamine.
seems many foods are high in glutamic acid.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> how we can reduce glutamate and glutamine.
> seems many foods are high in glutamic acid.


Memantine seems to reduces glutamate in the hippocampus[1] but i dont know about other brain regio's.

Riluzole reduces the ammount of glutamate but its way to expensive to use for social anxiety.

NMDA antagonists are your best bet, but keep in mind that their use for social anxiety is pretty much uninvestigated, other glutamate receptors could be the biggest culprit like the mGlUr5 receptors.
Acamprosate seems to have a downstream effect on those receptors, and may theoretically work.

As for glutamine, there are no antagonists available right now.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> how we can reduce glutamate and glutamine.
> seems many foods are high in glutamic acid.


Lamotrigine reduces glutamate. I read a study that showed it prevented tolerance to morphine. People report only a mild impact on cognition, much less than carbamazepine. But it shouldn't be self medicated, due to the risk of skin reactions and requirement of strict dose titration.

Other than that... Memantine, DXM, ketamine, riluzole, acamprosate, L-theanine, taurine, magnesium and zinc all affect glutamate receptors (directly or indirectly). Some of those have been used in low doses for tolerance/mood purposes. There are also some plants with similar properties, but I don't know of any that are well documented. NMDA antagonists aren't good to take in high doses long term, as they can cause paranoia, delusions and general schizophrenic-like thinking (and possibly neurotoxicity). Combining high doses with stimulants could result in severe psychosis.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Lamotrigine reduces glutamate. I read a study that showed it prevented tolerance to morphine. People report only a mild impact on cognition, much less than carbamazepine. But it shouldn't be self medicated, due to the risk of skin reactions and requirement of strict dose titration.
> 
> Other than that... Memantine, DXM, ketamine, riluzole, acamprosate, L-theanine, taurine, magnesium and zinc all affect glutamate receptors (directly or indirectly). Some of those have been used in low doses for tolerance/mood purposes. There are also some plants with similar properties, but I don't know of any that are well documented. *NMDA antagonists aren't good to take in high doses long term, as they can cause paranoia, delusions and general schizophrenic-like thinking (and possibly neurotoxicity). Combining high doses with stimulants could result in severe psychosis.*


I disagree, unless your talking about very high doses (far higher then therapeutic doses).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstract.php?pmid=17728110
Memantine seems to help schizophrenia instead of making it worse (is there anything it cant do?).


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I disagree, unless your talking about very high doses (far higher then therapeutic doses).


Yes, a lot higher than the normal therapeutic dose. Heavy DXM/ketamine users tend to be pretty messed up. But maybe even high therapeutic doses could exacerbate stimulant psychosis.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Yes, a lot higher than the normal therapeutic dose. Heavy DXM/ketamine users tend to be pretty messed up. *But maybe even high therapeutic doses could exacerbate stimulant psychosis.*


I disagree, even in schizophrenics memantine doesnt cause an increase in symptons, instead it improves it, surely it wont cause any psychosis in healthy humans.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I disagree, even in schizophrecs memantine doesnt make it worse, instead it improves it, surely it wont cause any psychosis in healthy humans.


Not on its own (at therapeutic doses), but combined with a stimulant I think it might make feelings such as paranoia worse.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Not on its own (at therapeutic doses), but combined with a stimulant I think it might make feelings such as paranoia worse.


From personal experience i allways get extreme paranoia from stimulants (on amphetamine i wont be able to sit down and listen to music, as i have to turn the music down because i need to listen someone isnt breaking into my house and all that crap).

Yet when i tried a stimulant on memantine last saturday i allmost didnt have any paranoia at all, from my impression it seems to help.

Further trials are needed to make any conclusions tough.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm still going strong, also realised that ive been taking it with coke wich may have resulted in less absorption of memantine, today ive taken it with water and notice some of the side effects again like ive had when i started to take it and raised my dose, feel agitated and restless, i know this passes tough so i dont mind.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Damn:

Influence of urine pH and urinary flow on the renal excretion of memantine

S. Freudenthaler, I. Meineke, K.-H. Schreeb, E. Boakye, U. Gundert-Remy & C. H. Gleiter
Department of Clinical Pharmacology, Georg-August-Universita¨t Go¨ttingen, Go¨ttingen, Germany

Aims The present study assessed the influence of urinary flow rate and urine pH on
the renal excretion of the NMDA-receptor antagonist memantine.
Methods In a randomized, open, four-period cross-over trial, 12 healthy male
volunteers received 10 mg memantine daily for 43 days. After reaching steady state
conditions the volunteers were allocated to four different regimens to alter urine pH
and urinary flow, which were each separated by a 1 week period while the study
medication continued (A: acidification of urine pH, low urinary flow; B: acidification
of urine pH, high urinary flow; C: alkalinization of urine pH, low urinary flow; D:
alkalinization of urine pH, high urinary flow).
Results The renal clearance of memantine (CLR) in regimen A and B was 7–10
fold higher in comparison with regimen C and D (P<0.05). There were small but
statistically significant differences of CLR between the two regimens with acidic
urine pH (A: median: 210.2 ml min−1 vs B: median: 218.7 ml min−1) and between
the two regimens with alkaline urine pH (C: median: 19.4 ml min−1 vs D: median:
30.5 ml min−1). The amount of memantine excreted into the urine within one
regimen (Ae0–24 h) was 5.7–7.4 fold higher in regimens A and B than C and D
(P<0.05). Differences of the AUC(0,24 h) and Cmax/AUC(0,24 h) were significant
(P<0.05) between each of the regimens with acidic urine pH (A, B) and regimens
(C, D) with alkaline urine pH (A vs C, A vs D, B vs C, B vs D) but not between
regimens A vs B or C vs D.
Conclusions The present study demonstrated a considerable effect of urine pH,
whereas no clinically relevant change of the renal excretion of memantine with
urinary flow could be detected. As the renal excretion of memantine may have an
impact on therapeutic efficacy changes of dietary habits that may alter urine pH
should be avoided during treatment with memantine.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

euphoria said:


> Lamotrigine reduces glutamate. I read a study that showed it prevented tolerance to morphine. People report only a mild impact on cognition, much less than carbamazepine. But it shouldn't be self medicated, due to the risk of skin reactions and requirement of strict dose titration.


Lamotrigine = weird. Its also some sort of Nicotinic Acetylcholine channel/receptor blocker/antagonist.


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## robertz (Feb 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstract.php?pmid=17728110
> Memantine seems to help schizophrenia instead of making it worse (is there anything it cant do?).


In the following link they talk about glycine which is involved in glutamatergic neurotransmission:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003813.html

A guy says TMG is helping his SZ symptoms. No that we are schizophrenics  but I found it interesting.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ive been interested in trying TMG for a while, never got to the point of ordering it tough.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

robertz said:


> In the following link they talk about glycine which is involved in glutamatergic neurotransmission:
> 
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003813.html
> 
> A guy says TMG is helping his SZ symptoms. No that we are schizophrenics  but I found it interesting.


I read that it's a glycine agonist.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

umm .. does memantine have any positive effect on your libido? :sus


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> umm .. does memantine have any positive effect on your libido? :sus


My libido is still the same (wich is a good thing).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I forgot my key's so i have to stay at my mum this weekend as my grandparents are away till sunday.
That means no more memantine for the weekend, i'm allready starting to feel my OCD getting worse again

I'm gonna call another doc of me at my mums and hope he can prescribed me memantine, i just wish docs were more open to prescribe offlabel stuff here...
When i asked a doc 2 days ago he acted like i wanted to get XTCoke

I really hope this doc can prescribe it, i'm scared that it wont work again when i run out, or that my ocd gets that bad again, that its stopping me from taking meds again.

**** OCD:rain


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

This doc wont prescribe it either:|


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I could get oxycodone prescribed for OCD in only 1 day of trying, and memantine i am unable to get, what a joke.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

WHAT? Oxycodone for OCD? lol.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> WHAT? Oxycodone for OCD? lol.


Yeah, one day i said **** it i'm gonna try to get oxy for OCD, wend to a random doc which said he cant prescribe it, but refered me to another doc, and BAM he agreed and prescribed me oxy, that one was unexpected lol.

I never went back to ask for it again tough, as i needed to go to another doc as he was replacing a sick one, so i got scared to explain it all again (stupid i know, but thats my SA personality).

But anyway, i want memantine much more then i want oxy right now, memantine is the best med ive ever tried.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Okay, i'm back on memantine, feel alot more clearheaded and ocd is significantly down again.

I was panicking a bit too much lol, but i do feel a difference again now in terms of extra clarity.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> So drugs could cause tolerance by increased NMDA receptor activity, opposite to the effect of NMDA antagonists.
> 
> By the way crayzyMed, are you getting that memantine from a doctor or self prescribed? I forgot.


Its self prescribed, HOWEVER tomorrow i'm going to a doc that is willing to prescribe it too me.

This is really furtionate because there arent any sites that ship cheap memantine to belguim, i had to special request that because our customs are terrible, the downside is that no site is willing to reship me if the customs take it.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Moved it to the other thread...


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Its self prescribed, HOWEVER tomorrow i'm going to a doc that is willing to prescribe it too me.
> 
> This is really furtionate because there arent any sites that ship cheap memantine to belguim, i had to special request that because our customs are terrible, the downside is that no site is willing to reship me if the customs take it.


I thought it was legal to import a personal amount of non-controlled meds?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> I thought it was legal to import a personal amount of non-controlled meds?


Not in my country. Barely any sites to ship to belguim anymore:|.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

What the hell, that's dumb. ****ing Nazis.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

what happens with Memantine's D2 agonism? does the receptor eventually downregulate? i'm trying to stabilize on Prozac, but the "low dopamine" side-effects are a total b*tch (restless legs, akathisia, even some vague mouth chewing). 

i know it takes a bit longer to stabilize on a dose due to the half-life (2 weeks?), so i'm trying to be patient, and i promised myself (and my parents) that i'd give Prozac a decent shot for major depression and OCD. the pdoc's happy to add memantine once i'm ready, so i'm just wondering if it has any stable pro-dopaminergic action that could help me, or if the D2 action is pretty insignificant overall


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> what happens with Memantine's D2 agonism? does the receptor eventually downregulate? i'm trying to stabilize on Prozac, but the "low dopamine" side-effects are a total b*tch (restless legs, akathisia, even some vague mouth chewing).
> 
> i know it takes a bit longer to stabilize on a dose due to the half-life (2 weeks?), so i'm trying to be patient, and i promised myself (and my parents) that i'd give Prozac a decent shot for major depression and OCD. the pdoc's happy to add memantine once i'm ready, so i'm just wondering if it has any stable pro-dopaminergic action that could help me, or if the D2 action is pretty insignificant overall


NMDA antagonists upregulate D2 receptors in the striatum, so i suppose the opposite would happen (upregulation of D2 and downregulation of presynaptic receptors) wich is a very good thing.
Altough i'm not sure how significant the D2 agonism is, i do beleive it contributes to the initial brainfog.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

so when memantine is listed (on wikipedia) as being a D2 agonist, is that referring to the presynaptic receptor? and it's continual agonism of that receptor would cause it to downregulate eventually? but then as a bonus you get the upregulation of the striatum receptors? which means that most of its positive effect on dopamine is indirect? 

sorry im new to all this, so still learning ..

i thought D2 agonism would sort of be a good thing .. how would that cause brain fog? i had the opposite at first ... it felt like a really strong hit of ritalin, and made my mind race, which calmed down at higher doses


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

They also talk about memantine here. http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50739 lots of interesting studies are posted here but you guys probably already seen it . ;D

The last reply really made me really curious



> Yep Memantine has done wonders for preventing my tolerance to amphetamines. Aricept is also a great adjunct to potentiate the effects of amphetamines. Memantine is the anti-depressant of the future. At 40mg a day, this stuff is an amazing anti-depressant and mood stabilizer. Pharm companies need to milk everything out of the SSRI's first bf Namenda(Memantine HCL) becomes mainstream. Right now, it's being used off labeled for virtually every mental illness b/c it works and it has no side effects. It's actually not that great for Alzheimers


What about theanine? Is it strong enough to prevent tolerance? I just read this on wikipedia.


> While structurally related to the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate, theanine only has weak affinity for the glutamate receptor on post-synaptic cells.[8] Rather, its primary effect seems to increase the overall level of the brain inhibitory transmitter GABA. Theanine also increases brain dopamine levels and has micromolar affinities for AMPA, Kainate and NMDA receptors.[9]


I have success with 400 mg magnesium and 400 mg l-theanine a day. I stopped cold turkey with klonopin 2mg after 2 months and I only experienced some insomnia. Memantine is supposed to be da bomb like they say Btw l-theanine alone also works well for me.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Memantine is indeed "DA BOMB" the benefits of it are INSANE!!! i dont understand why not more ppl jump on this, especially since NMDA antagonism upregulates D2 in the reward centers (wich is beneficial for us).

Its an excellent mood stabiliser and works wonders for my OCD too.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> so when memantine is listed (on wikipedia) as being a D2 agonist, is that referring to the presynaptic receptor? and it's continual agonism of that receptor would cause it to downregulate eventually? but then as a bonus you get the upregulation of the striatum receptors? which means that most of its positive effect on dopamine is indirect?
> 
> sorry im new to all this, so still learning ..
> 
> i thought D2 agonism would sort of be a good thing .. how would that cause brain fog? i had the opposite at first ... it felt like a really strong hit of ritalin, and made my mind race, which calmed down at higher doses


The dopamine agonism agonizes both presynaptic and postsynaptic receptors wich leads to a decrease in dopaminergic transmission (the initial brainfog) after that the presynaptic receptors upregulate (2 weeks) and the benefits can be felt.

NMDA antagonists also upregulate D2 receptors in the striatum (the reward centers are there).
30 or 40mg a day is neceserry for D2 upregulation tough IMO, as under that dose its not effective as an antidepressant.
However that doesnt mean you need to take that much for other benefits.


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

If I start taking memantine should I stop taking Caffeine, 5-htp, L-tyrosine, and Magnesium? I don't think i'll be able to afford taking memantine everyday but I still want the anti-depressant effects. Maybe I just need a second job....


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> If I start taking memantine should I stop taking Caffeine, 5-htp, L-tyrosine, and Magnesium? I don't think i'll be able to afford taking memantine everyday but I still want the anti-depressant effects. Maybe I just need a second job....


I take it with tons of cafeine, the other sups can be taken safely with it too.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

There's another positive memantine experience in that thread too:


> memantine is da bomb. i take it daily like a multivitamin. i'm not sure if it really helps with adderall tolerance.... it definitely prevents the "zombie" effect i had when i took adderall for 5 or 6 days in a row. but i really i don't like taking adderall that much anyway.
> 
> anyway, memantine is great for other stuff too, like memory. seriously, it comes up in little ways that are so cool. like remembering phone numbers and where i put my keys and little **** like that. kick ***.


I added my own experience (i'm WesleyT).

To clarify, memantine wont make you feel like superman and make all your problems go away, its subtle, but all the things it does really kick ***.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> The dopamine agonism agonizes both presynaptic and postsynaptic receptors wich leads to a decrease in dopaminergic transmission (the initial brainfog) after that the presynaptic receptors upregulate (2 weeks) and the benefits can be felt.
> 
> NMDA antagonists also upregulate D2 receptors in the striatum (the reward centers are there).
> 30 or 40mg a day is neceserry for D2 upregulation tough IMO, as under that dose its not effective as an antidepressant.
> However that doesnt mean you need to take that much for other benefits.


ah okay. i think i'm finally beginning to settle on the Prozac, so will probably instate a low dose of this soon


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> ah okay. i think i'm finally beginning to settle on the Prozac, so will probably instate a low dose of this soon


Okay, keep us updated.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

memantine's affinity for D2 receptors is higher than its affinity for NMDA receptors!

Memantine agonist action at dopamine D2(High) receptors.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

i'm meeting with pdoc tomorrow. he initally wanted to take me off the Prozac due to akathisia, but that's settling now so i think ill probably remain on it. he really likes moclobemide but i doubt itll help. he said the dose i initially tried (300mg) was too low, and i need to go higher. 

after reading reports though, im kind of scared to death of SSRI anhedonia, especially since i have a lot of motivation/anhedonia problems to begin with.

has the way memantine's helped yr anhedonia been significant crazyMed? could you give an example? i'm wondering if it could help 'protect' against some of the more common SSRI s/e's .. the apathy, etc.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I dont know wheter it would protect against SSRI's anhedonia, the memantine alone had a positive effect on my anhedonia but not very significant, in combination with ashwaghanda it worked very good for anhedonia, better then both alone.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Moclobemide shouldn't be as bad as SSRIs for anhedonia, it might actually help it. I found it mostly ineffective for anxiety, but mildly effective for mood & motivation. Overall I preferred the SSRIs, they felt a lot cleaner and less agitating. Neither moclobemide, selegiline nor Nardil greatly improved my anhedonia, but they did have some effect.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Moclobemide shouldn't be as bad as SSRIs for anhedonia, it might actually help it. I found it mostly ineffective for anxiety, but mildly effective for mood & motivation. Overall I preferred the SSRIs.


Moclobemide has zero side effects and also zero efficacy. Maybe for a few it works, kinda like buspar, but the majority its crap.

When the MAOI's are kicking SSRI's ***, moclobemide is there standing at the side watching the fight, when the MAOI's or the SSRI's look to the moclobemide, it will quickly run away.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Neither moclobemide, selegiline nor Nardil greatly improved my anhedonia, but they did have some effect. I don't personally think irreversible MAOIs are as great as some people say they are (I certainly wouldn't call them the "gold standard"), but sure they're more effective than SSRIs and moclobemide.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I beleive in Nardil as the gold standard, not parnate per se.

I do beleive other stuff would be more effective tough, the memantine+prami combo guide 4 dummies is on sounds very interesting.
I'm actually thinking that i'm going for prami instead of LDOPA, sounds safer in the long run, also there's lot of promosing research on prami.

Maybe some LDOPA the first 2 weeks to counteract the reduced dopaminergic transmission.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I also ran out of memantine and now i notice how greatly it was helping my life, it was really amazing actually, just small things it was helping with.

For example, i was eating healthy on memantine, since i ran out i dont bother, while i know its important i dont have motivation for it, its wierd how i normally act without memantine.

It helps with all kinds of small things, thats where memantine really shines.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I'm actually thinking that i'm going for prami instead of LDOPA, sounds safer in the long run, also there's lot of promosing research on prami.


Why is L-dopa + carbidopa + 5-HTP unsafe?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Oxidative stress, but now i'm thinking about it that wont make much sense as it wont matter wheter i would raise dopamine with amp or LDOPA.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

And pramipexole would increase dopamine levels via autoreceptor downregulation. I wouldn't worry about oxidative stress if I was taking several potent antioxidants (like NAC) spaced throughout the day.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Caution may be warranted using a2 agonists with stimulants, in case anyone ever considers such a combo:



> According to the manufacturer, serious adverse events have been reported during concomitant use of methylphenidate with clonidine. The mechanism of interaction, if any, is unknown, and a causal relationship has not been established. The use of clonidine, with or without methylphenidate, has been associated with rare cases of sudden death and cardiotoxicity including sinus bradycardia and heart block. Electrocardiographic (ECG) abnormalities have also been demonstrated in patients treated with clonidine, even at low dosages.


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## squoink (Feb 28, 2010)

*Memantine for OCD*

Hi Guys,

I've been following for a while the research about glutamate and OCD. Do any of you here genuinely think drugs like memantind and riluzule (are there any others) can make a big difference for someone with ocd.

Cheers for any replies.

Also, I get the impression that you guys self-medicate - is that correct?

Cheers


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

squoink said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I've been following for a while the research about glutamate and OCD. Do any of you here genuinely think drugs like memantind and riluzule (are there any others) can make a big difference for someone with ocd.
> 
> ...


Yeah, memantine and riluzole are both clinically demonstrated to help OCD, you can find all references in my thread about glutamate and psychiatric conditions.

For me personally it helped a ton, guide 4 dummies and Vini vici vidi both reported a positive effect too.

Where memantine really shines is that i dont have any side effects and no withdrawal at all after using it for a month.

And yes i do self medicate, for me its much cheaper to order it online, so getting trough the trouble of getting it prescribed isnt of much benefit.


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## TiMeZuP (Sep 30, 2009)

Just came across this. Not sure if the link has been posted yet.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/ja/wo.jsp?WO=2006034465&IA=US2005034199&DISPLAY=DESC


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

squoink said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I've been following for a while the research about glutamate and OCD. Do any of you here genuinely think drugs like memantind and riluzole (are there any others) can make a big difference for someone with ocd.
> 
> ...


CrazyMed (=awesome) probably already responded adequately to this question, hes the Memantine expert, but Im too lazy to read his response before I post mine (no offense CrzyMed) so If i repeat exactly what he said, i apologize. Sorry also for my unorganized writing, Im just really free and uninhibited right now, Sleep Deprivation messed up my brain, so my OCD went crazy, I could barely talk and/or write and/or do anything. But I took 1mg of Klonopin, and my OCD is significantly diminished, so Im taking advantage of my Mental freedom, and just writing/saying whatever I want Lol. Normally (with proper sleep) Memantine helps a TON with OCD. And to finally answer your question, yes, Memantine = TOTALLY INSANE. It kicks OCDs *** (at a high enough Dosage, of course).

Dude, on the Genuinity scale of 1-100 (100 being best) I am being 100% genuine in my statement concerning the effectiveness of Memantine and Riluzole in reducing OCD symptoms. The common (false) assumption is that OCD is caused by an imbalance of Serotonin levels in the brain (as u know already) Serotonin can definetly contribute, but I actually believe Glutamate and other excitatory neurotransmission plays an equal, if not more important role in the pathology of OCD symptoms. It could be, that the abnormal Glutamate activity is a result of altered Serotonin activity, but nevertheless..... There is tons of research and evidence that suggests that OCD symptoms can be reduced by simply blocking Glutamate release/receptors/neurotransmission/activity/ect. NMDA antagonists (block glutamate receptors) can cause an immediate reduction/elimination of OCD symptoms.....whereas SSRIs take Months to help. An example of an NMDA antagonist = DXM (in most cough syrups)... I used to drink DXM all the time, in low doses, and it would greatly reduce or eliminate my OCD and related anxiety for 2-6 hours.

Memantine has significantly reduced my OCD, I freaking LOVE Memantine. It reduces my OCD, prevents tolerance to Dextroamphetamine, and definetly increases my Focusing abilities (after 2 weeks of use). The only sucky part is the Initial terrible brain fog, which lasts 3-5 days, but it goes away rather quickly. After 1-2 weeks, Memantine acutally Increases concentration and mental clarity....my P-doc uses it for ADHD sometimes. I USED to self-medicate, when my P-docs wouldnt give me the right meds, but now I take Xactly what my Doctor prescribes because my Doc is awesome and he lets me take awesome Med combos. I still order Memantine from India though, its much Cheaper, my Doc still gives me prescriptions tho.. Memantine is Brand-name in the U.S.A, quite expensive i think, also I doubt insurance will cover an Off-Label Alzheimers Disease Medication like such. But its cheaper to order it from Canada (with a Prescription) , or from India (No prescription necessary, due to Variable Local Laws)

Riluzole (looks) just as awesome as Memantine for OCD, but also for Depression, Anxiety, SA, ect. It doesnt just block NMDA receptors, it Reduces overall release of Glutamate and binding to ALL glutamate receptors (not just NMDAr). Riluzole has been shown 2 be effective for OCD, Depression, and Anxiety.... its downfall, is its Expense. Its only approved in the U.S. for Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.....so Sanofi-Aventis can charge exuberant prices, because they have a monopoly on the ALS Med market. (between $400-1000 for ONE months supply.)

=Long post  ....sometimes i wonder, if ANYone ever reads these excessive uneccesarily long posts, I just hope somebody gets some useful information/entertainment out of my ramblings. I know at least 1 person (im not sure who, just somebody) will read this whole post, and to them, I want to say, Thank you, you are awesome/bada$$, may you live long and prosper forever in Peace, euphoria, and tranquility. :sus:yes


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## squoink (Feb 28, 2010)

*Thanks a lot*

Thanks a lot for your replies guys.

Much appreciated.


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## karoloydi (Feb 18, 2010)

Is there any research that shows that memantine does not pause any problems in the long term?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

karoloydi said:


> Is there any research that shows that memantine does not pause any problems in the long term?


Its been around for so long, no problems have been reported at all. Because of its pharmacology id say its actually neuroprotective in the long run.


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## valentina (Apr 21, 2010)

how are you feeling now?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

valentina said:


> how are you feeling now?


I started memantine again today as i ran out, only took it for a month, i'm planning to try up to 60mg this time.


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## Thorsten (Apr 6, 2010)

Good luck @ 60mg keep us updated with how it goes for you

I cannot even think of doses that high as it wouldn't be cost effective for me. Plus I feel all the benefits I need @10mg. Any more I just feel weird. I suppose we're all different though. If you did suddenly report that your anhedonia had been cured by dosing @60mg I would probably consider going up to these levels myself and abandon my plans to add a d2/d3 agonist as then Memantine would provide everything I need. It kind of does right now anyway (anhedonia a lot better but not zapped completely) so maybe I should just accept when things are going well for me. Anyway good luck bro and keep us posted!

On a side note I've noticed a bit of tension on the boards tonight. Did it have anything to do with the 7/8 Memantine threads that were in play!!? Haha, its kept me amused anyway...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Who knows how 60mg would affect me, maybe i'm suddenly fully cured or something, well i doubt it but i like experimenting, something great and unexpected may happen, and then its definatly worth the money hehe.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Who knows how 60mg would affect me, maybe i'm suddenly fully cured or something, well i doubt it but i like experimenting, something great and unexpected may happen, and then its definatly worth the money hehe.


your cat avatar is really cracking me up every time i look at it.

60mg a day? Wow. I actually think If you don't die, I might try it to. BTW, do you know, if 5ht3 antagonism Upregulates or Down regulates 5ht3? I read 1 study a long time ago that said it downregulates it, I dont know, but I really hope it upregulates it, just for the sake of making 60mg/day not be icky


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## tmk824 (Dec 13, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> There's another positive memantine experience in that thread too:
> 
> I added my own experience (i'm WesleyT).
> 
> To clarify, memantine wont make you feel like superman and make all your problems go away, its subtle, but all the things it does really kick ***.


Can I take memantine in addition to my prozac????


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## tmk824 (Dec 13, 2010)

I have taken Prozac for 5 years, it def helps but I need more help. Would you guys think Prozac, Memantine and NAC are a good mix?


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

tmk824 said:


> I have taken Prozac for 5 years, it def helps but I need more help. Would you guys think Prozac, Memantine and NAC are a good mix?


Memantine could help with OCD if you have it. Otherwise I would try stuff like moderate amounts of fish oil, 500 mg curcumin, and perhaps even low dose lithium.


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## Teerayoot (Aug 28, 2011)

Can i take memantine with Modafinil +Piracetam ?

I wanna to start at 10mg/day ,to treat my ADD + depression +anxiety.

what happend if i not take memantine ,i 'm cured or worse than baseline ?,
please clarify.

Thank you.


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

I have memory problems in general, I have a hard time remembering conversations and key things people talked about. It's really bad. I'm good with remembering some things but general memory just sucks for me. Would memantine help this? Or make it worst?


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

barry1685 said:


> I have memory problems in general, I have a hard time remembering conversations and key things people talked about. It's really bad. I'm good with remembering some things but general memory just sucks for me. Would memantine help this? Or make it worst?


Don't think so, it will probably make it worse at first then go away and have little to no effect.


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## nito (Nov 7, 2008)

Under17 said:


> Don't think so, it will probably make it worse at first then go away and have little to no effect.


wait is memantine not a memory boosting drug, or is it an anti depressant?


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

nito said:


> wait is memantine not a memory boosting drug, or is it an anti depressant?


its a novel drug for alzheimers but most of us are mainly using it to slow tolerance to other drugs such as benzos, stimulants, and opiates. I don't think it has many adverse effects for most people, so that's one reason not to hesitate to try it. It is cholinergic but it's probably only mildly cognitive enhancing if at all AFAIK.

On its own I just wouldn't expect it to make a huge difference in cognition, at least not in barry's case but I could be wrong. I've seen some radical positive anecdotes from memantine regarding brain fog and such but I remain skeptical because I don't think there's any studies in humans showing such an effect and I haven't seen it help with me. Though the most I've taken was 30 mg, never went up to 40 mg which is the most I'd take.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I would suggest galantamine in your case.


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