# Burnabys Deal with Nardil



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Ok fellows, i opened this thread to make a journal of my nardil trial. I hope by sharing my experience other members can see what has worked for me and what has not and hopefully save time and energy by not making the same mistakes. I also welcome all the experienced users to give me advice and support as I know it can be a long and frustrating process. I appreciate all the feedback. 

so, here it goes. I don't know if its a good idea or not but I started today with 30mg and here is my plan:

week1: 30mg
week2 & week 3: 45 mg

I dont want to look to forward ahead but if after week 3 i can tolerate the side effects I will try to push to 60mg for week 4. 

Wish me luck and feel free to comments on my strategy


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Good luck man!

From ERFA Canada's product monograph it says that the starting dose is 15mg 3 times a day (45mg) so 30mg should be fine obviously since it's lower than what they recommend.



> *Initial Dose:​*_​_The usual starting dose for NARDIL (phenelzine sulfate) is one tablet (15 mg)​
> three times a day.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Yea, man! you can totally do 60mg! CHUG CHUG CHUG spring break!

Some advice, I've tried a bunch of dosing methods, and I get just way more kickpow with taking my entire dose all at once (mine's at 6:00AM). A lot of cute, little anecdotes from longtime Nardil users say they do the same thing. Might save you some time experimenting.

Im on weeks 8 (7 weeks and 3 days) of my new Nardil trial, and I'm still getting zilch benefits from it. Although, I remember when it worked a bit on my first trial, I did notice that after a few, maybe 2-6 hours after I dosed all at once, the effects would just roll over and die, so, about 12 or more hours everyday sucked pretty hard (there was still a tiny mood boost all the time though, but it wasn't much). Apparently the effects are suppose to feel pretty consistent all day, err' day for a lot, maybe most people; I don't know why it was happening to me, but Im mostly sure it would have only been temporary. Just wait it out if that happens to you


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jawi96 said:


> Yea, man! you can totally do 60mg! CHUG CHUG CHUG spring break!
> 
> Some advice, I've tried a bunch of dosing methods, and I get just way more kickpow with taking my entire dose all at once (mine's at 6:00AM). A lot of cute, little anecdotes from longtime Nardil users say they do the same thing. Might save you some time experimenting.
> 
> Im on weeks 8 (7 weeks and 3 days) of my new Nardil trial, and I'm still getting zilch benefits from it. Although, I remember when it worked a bit on my first trial, I did notice that after a few, maybe 2-6 hours after I dosed all at once, the effects would just roll over and die, so, about 12 or more hours everyday sucked pretty hard (there was still a tiny mood boost all the time though, but it wasn't much). Apparently the effects are suppose to feel pretty consistent all day, err' day for a lot, maybe most people; I don't know why it was happening to me, but Im mostly sure it would have only been temporary. Just wait it out if that happens to you


Why did you stop first trial ?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

CD700 said:


> Why did you stop first trial ?


I only ordered 120 pills, and reordered when I had 60 left. that was 20 days of supply on 45mg and the site took about 40 days to deliver. so, because i'm stupid mostly.

Also, I got really worried that I completely messed up my dosages in my first trial. It really was a pretty magnificent clusterfk of dose changes


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Good luck man!
> 
> From ERFA Canada's product monograph it says that the starting dose is 15mg 3 times a day (45mg) so 30mg should be fine obviously since it's lower than what they recommend.
> 
> [/FONT]


thanks bro. I wanted to start at 45mg but read Mr.Ts journal and a few other people who recommended to start lower to slow the sideffects. Hopefully after 1 week I move up to 45 mg and see how that goes. I also am looking forward to you getting your prescription and reading your journal! cheers


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Yea, man! you can totally do 60mg! CHUG CHUG CHUG spring break!
> 
> Some advice, I've tried a bunch of dosing methods, and I get just way more kickpow with taking my entire dose all at once (mine's at 6:00AM). A lot of cute, little anecdotes from longtime Nardil users say they do the same thing. Might save you some time experimenting.
> 
> Im on weeks 8 (7 weeks and 3 days) of my new Nardil trial, and I'm still getting zilch benefits from it. Although, I remember when it worked a bit on my first trial, I did notice that after a few, maybe 2-6 hours after I dosed all at once, the effects would just roll over and die, so, about 12 or more hours everyday sucked pretty hard (there was still a tiny mood boost all the time though, but it wasn't much). Apparently the effects are suppose to feel pretty consistent all day, err' day for a lot, maybe most people; I don't know why it was happening to me, but Im mostly sure it would have only been temporary. Just wait it out if that happens to you


Thanks for the tip, after reading some of sas members trials i decided to take all pills in the morning at the same time, in a few days will see how that works.

I dont expect any benefits in the first few weeks but If they come I will more than welcome it. I don't know if the weight theory works or not (1g per kg of body weight) but if thats true I weight about 175 lbs or roughly 80kg so i will most likely need to get to a higher dose .


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> I only ordered 120 pills, and reordered when I had 60 left. that was 20 days of supply on 45mg and the site took about 40 days to deliver. so, because i'm stupid mostly.
> 
> Also, I got really worried that I completely messed up my dosages in my first trial. It really was a pretty magnificent clusterfk of dose changes


which site did you use?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

adamaus said:


> which site did you use?


40 days is actually not too bad a delivery time when you live in a rural region of the philippines, where im pretty sure the average delivery time is 'No.'


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

I cant find that site


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

adamaus said:


> I cant find that site


Even if I gave you a bunch of sites with it, you'd still need to fax a script for your order. The only reason I order is because the only MAOI I have available where I live is selegiline, otherwise I wouldn't bother internetting all my Nardil. You might be better off with a psychiatrist


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

No Psychiatrist will prescribe me. Just pm me the site


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

adamaus said:


> No Psychiatrist will prescribe me. Just pm me the site


I don't know, man. I'd have to either know your case or know you've already taken Nardil before. It's not a bad drug to trial, but I don't know how responsible you are or how much you know about the drug.

Sorry, I don't wanna give it to you unless I know that I'm not doing more harm than good.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

adamaus said:


> No Psychiatrist will prescribe me. Just pm me the site


Talk to Dr. Ken Gillman at psychotropical.com he apparently will give you a list of sites you can get it at if you email him.


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> Ok fellows, i opened this thread to make a journal of my nardil trial. I hope by sharing my experience other members can see what has worked for me and what has not and hopefully save time and energy by not making the same mistakes. I also welcome all the experienced users to give me advice and support as I know it can be a long and frustrating process. I appreciate all the feedback.
> 
> Just a bit of background on me:
> 
> ...


From my own experience of nardil, I would suggest keeping at a lower dose (45mg) until the effects kick in, around 8 weeks or so. Also take the entire dose at night to avoid afternoon sedation. The GABA increase last for 24 hours, so if you can take on an empty stomach at night, you should be good all day. Also do not take any supplements (b6 as some may advise), it lowers the effects of nardil. good luck


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

0707129r said:


> From my own experience of nardil, I would suggest keeping at a lower dose (45mg) until the effects kick in, around 8 weeks or so. Also take the entire dose at night to avoid afternoon sedation. The GABA increase last for 24 hours, so if you can take on an empty stomach at night, you should be good all day. Also do not take any supplements (b6 as some may advise), it lowers the effects of nardil. good luck


Im actually planning to stick to 30mg for week1 and probably keep it at 45mg week 2,3 but may consider keeping it at 45mg. There is just so many different account of people on this site had success with nardil. Some argue to titrate up as soon as possible while others advice to go up slowly. As for the dosage i think most people here take it in the morning. Today is the 2nd day i have taken it early in the morning, but if it does make me sleepy i will take your advice and take it late afternoon or night to benefit from the sedation. Cheers


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> Im actually planning to stick to 30mg for week1 and probably keep it at 45mg week 2,3 but may consider keeping it at 45mg. There is just so many different account of people on this site had success with nardil. Some argue to titrate up as soon as possible while others advice to go up slowly. As for the dosage i think most people here take it in the morning. Today is the 2nd day i have taken it early in the morning, but if it does make me sleepy i will take your advice and take it late afternoon or night to benefit from the sedation. Cheers


Phenelzine has a fairly long half life, so you should be fine taking it in the evening, which is what I used to do.

The truth is, you're probably fine with either a quick or slow titration. I went straight in at 45mg, and had no problems. I wouldn't worry too much - the titration is not going to change the effectiveness of the drug, which is of course dose dependent.

See how the side effects hit you before you consider going higher than 45mg; for me, it caused crippling sexual performance issues above 60mg. At 75mg, my blood pressure was so low I could barely leave my room, and so I discontinued Phenelzine.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

VERBW said:


> Phenelzine has a fairly long half life, so you should be fine taking it in the evening, which is what I used to do.
> 
> The truth is, you're probably fine with either a quick or slow titration. I went straight in at 45mg, and had no problems. I wouldn't worry too much - the titration is not going to change the effectiveness of the drug, which is of course dose dependent.
> 
> See how the side effects hit you before you consider going higher than 45mg; for me, it caused crippling sexual performance issues above 60mg. At 75mg, my blood pressure was so low I could barely leave my room, and so I discontinued Phenelzine.


thanks for the tip. Are you still on Nardil verbs? how long did it take you before you noticed improvements in your mood?


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

1) I discontinued Nardil in favour of Imipramine at the end of last year, which I quickly replaced with Clomipramine

2) Nardil is a pretty fast drug to act. I would say within a week and a half, I realised it was working on my mood. My anxiety disappeared pretty much immediately.

From what I understand, the whole "wait six weeks for improvement" is largely bull****; I would say that if it doesn't work within 3-4 weeks, it's probably never going to work. 

That said, if you're coping alright, there's no reason not to give it a 6-8 week trial. I would only discontinue earlier if you're suicidal / unable to work / etc


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

VERBW said:


> 1) I discontinued Nardil in favour of Imipramine at the end of last year, which I quickly replaced with Clomipramine
> 
> 2) Nardil is a pretty fast drug to act. I would say within a week and a half, I realised it was working on my mood. My anxiety disappeared pretty much immediately.
> 
> ...


well thats a heart warming thought that it can work faster than 8 weeks, i definitely would welcome that  how long were you on nardil and what dosage? was ur issue mostly anxiety or depression? also how are u finding Clomipramine?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

VERBW said:


> 1) I discontinued Nardil in favour of Imipramine at the end of last year, which I quickly replaced with Clomipramine
> 
> 2) Nardil is a pretty fast drug to act. I would say within a week and a half, I realised it was working on my mood. My anxiety disappeared pretty much immediately.
> 
> ...


Imo, the majority of what you wrote is bull****.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

chop, i know you have alot of experience with nardil and read many of your posts, do u think its a good idea for me to keep it at 30mg for a week (today is day 2), and week 3,4 go to 45mg and then pump up to 60 until i feel the effects?


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> Imo, the majority of what you wrote is bull****.


You seem a little upset. If I knew what you were so upset about, perhaps I could help



> well thats a heart warming thought that it can work faster than 8 weeks, i definitely would welcome that how long were you on nardil and what dosage? was ur issue mostly anxiety or depression? also how are u finding Clomipramine?


Mostly depression. I was on it for about 6 months. At 75mg, the side effects were too strong.

Clomipramine is better for depression, but not as good for anxiety. Trying some new drugs for that soon, but my anxiety is not particularly crippling. I go out, socialise, make new friends, work etc.

And seriously, if it's not working by eight weeks, increase the dose if the side effects are tolerable. If not, try a new drug.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

Stuff tolerable, increase the dose and get it working asap then lower it down to ease the side effects. I much prefer suffering through the side effects to get it working fast than prolong feeling like crap from it not working.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

viper1431 said:


> Stuff tolerable, increase the dose and get it working asap then lower it down to ease the side effects. I much prefer suffering through the side effects to get it working fast than prolong feeling like crap from it not working.


How high did you bump it up to when you were still trying to get it to work?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> chop, i know you have alot of experience with nardil and read many of your posts, do u think its a good idea for me to keep it at 30mg for a week (today is day 2), and week 3,4 go to 45mg and then pump up to 60 until i feel the effects?


Sounds like a good plan, i read somewhere that the first few weeks having a high/low dosage don't make much difference, since the therapeutic action of the drug is delayed.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

VERBW said:


> You seem a little upset. If I knew what you were so upset about, perhaps I could help


Words on the internet is not enough to make me upset. 

Nardil is one medication that takes a long time to give a decent therapeutic effect. Of all the MAOIs available it is known to take the longest. If you or anyone else for that matter got a quick response to it, then it was not the true antidepressant effect. More likely some kind of light hypomania.


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> Words on the internet is not enough to make me upset.
> 
> Nardil is one medication that takes a long time to give a decent therapeutic effect. Of all the MAOIs available it is known to take the longest. If you or anyone else for that matter got a quick response to it, then it was not the true antidepressant effect. More likely some kind of light hypomania.


But the side effects of the drug start fairly quickly. I had limited side effects at 45mg, but three-to-four days after going to 75mg, I developed crippling hypotension.

That was enough to tell me that the drug wasn't going to work. Therefore, if you've been on the drug for say, two weeks, there's not going to be any harm increasing the dose if you don't think it is working.

As for Phenelzine taking a long time to engage: hypomania or not, you're still feeling an effect of the drug. Having taken a lot of medication in my time, I can only tell you that Phenelzine does give you indications of its efficacy fairly quickly. In fact, pretty much every antidepressant I've been on has done.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

VERBW said:


> But the side effects of the drug start fairly quickly. I had limited side effects at 45mg, but three-to-four days after going to 75mg, I developed crippling hypotension.


The hypotension always lessen/disappear with time even if you're at 120mg+, but it can take a long time. Sometimes i was confined to the bed due to the hypotension, but it always went away with time.



VERBW said:


> As for Phenelzine taking a long time to engage: hypomania or not, you're still feeling an effect of the drug. Having taken a lot of medication in my time, I can only tell you that Phenelzine does give you indications of its efficacy fairly quickly. In fact, pretty much every antidepressant I've been on has done.


Then we can agree to disagree then.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

VERBW said:


> You seem a little upset. If I knew what you were so upset about, perhaps I could help
> 
> Mostly depression. I was on it for about 6 months. At 75mg, the side effects were too strong.
> 
> ...


I sure hope by 8 weeks its working, I'm willing to give this drug up to 12 weeks but as a working professional I don't want to go through a roller coaster and lose my job . . . I would gladly welcome even a day of it working faster


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> Sounds like a good plan, i read somewhere that the first few weeks having a high/low dosage don't make much difference, since the therapeutic action of the drug is delayed.


I probably have tried a dozen drugs and I don't think all of them combined they were as complicated as this one from what i'm reading. I will stick to this plan at least for the first 3 weeks (30, 45, 45) and will update you guys on the progress. Already day 2 and i'm feeling so tired in the afternoons on 30mg


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

viper1431 said:


> Stuff tolerable, increase the dose and get it working asap then lower it down to ease the side effects. I much prefer suffering through the side effects to get it working fast than prolong feeling like crap from it not working.


Im willing to suffer a bit more if it works faster, but is this a proven method and how fast would you bump it up? i'm currently on day 2 and taking 30 mg. what would you suggest viper? 
sorry my ignorance but are u on nardil currently?


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> Then we can agree to disagree then.


You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the Maudsley Hospital's prescribing guidelines.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33609797/Prescribing-Guidelines#page=172



> It is widely held that antidepressants do not exert their effects for 2-4 weeks. This is a myth. All antidepressants show a pattern of response where the rate of improvement is highest during weeks1-2 and lowest during weeks 4-6. Statistical separation from placebo is seen at 2-4 weeks in single trials (hence the idea of a lag effect) but after only 1-2 weeks in (statistically more powerful) meta-analyses
> 
> Thus where large numbers of patients are treated and detailed rating scales are used an antidepressant effect is evident at 1 week. In practice using simple observations, an antidepressant effect in an individual is often seen by 2 weeks. It follows that in individuals where no antidepressant effect is evident after 2 weeks' treatment, a change in dose or drug may be indicated.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

VERBW said:


> You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the Maudsley Hospital's prescribing guidelines.
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/33609797/Prescribing-Guidelines#page=172


Oh, how cute. ;P

I didn't feel much at all until i had been on Nardil for over 9 weeks.

Edit; I highly doubt that includes MAOIs.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

what dose did you keep it at chopsuey to feel the effects? have you tapered down since and what dosage if you don't mind? 9 weeks i guess is on the longer end , if i remember correctly shyone's took 3 months though


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> what dose did you keep it at chopsuey to feel the effects? have you tapered down since and what dosage if you don't mind? 9 weeks i guess is on the longer end , if i remember correctly shyone's took 3 months though


I kinda started on 75mg, and stayed there for 9 weeks.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> I kinda started on 75mg, and stayed there for 9 weeks.


oh my that is pretty high but if you had to go back in time and do it all over again you would start at a lower dose. Are you still on 75mg?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> oh my that is pretty high but if you had to go back in time and do it all over again you would start at a lower dose. Are you still on 75mg?


75mg worked for me, so if i had to do it again I'd do the same. Since then I've tried pretty much all dosages available, 45mg -> 150mg+

Might have even gone up to 195mg on some days. Today I'm on 75mg


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> 75mg worked for me, so if i had to do it again I'd do the same. Since then I've tried pretty much all dosages available, 45mg -> 150mg+
> 
> Might have even gone up to 195mg on some days. Today I'm on 75mg


THanks, I might try to bump it up a little faster. From what i was reading those who took 75mg + had alot of SE such as sexual dysfunction, insomnia. Do you experience any of these at 75mg?

also if you were to drop to say 60mg, how much of the efficacy would you estimate you would lose?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> THanks, I might try to bump it up a little faster. From what i was reading those who took 75mg + had alot of SE such as sexual dysfunction, insomnia. Do you experience any of these at 75mg?
> 
> also if you were to drop to say 60mg, how much of the efficacy would you estimate you would lose?


I've never had any insomnia, in fact i sleep better when i take Nardil. I have delayed ejaculation, but it's no problem for me.

About question number 2; it's impossible to even estimate.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> I've never had any insomnia, in fact i sleep better when i take Nardil. I have delayed ejaculation, but it's no problem for me.
> 
> About question number 2; it's impossible to even estimate.


Thanks for your reply. I certainly hope it works for my sleep since with ssri's i rarely got any.

You are right, it is hard to estimate efficacy, I guess that just something i have to experience to see what the trade offs are for a higher dosage vs a lower dosage.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> I've never had any insomnia, in fact i sleep better when i take Nardil. I have delayed ejaculation, but it's no problem for me.
> 
> About question number 2; it's impossible to even estimate.


Did you have hypersomnia or narcolepsy then? atleast for the 1st few weeks? I can hardly keep my eyes open. What if I get murdered?! *starts having short, panicky breathing* **falls asleep**

Hey, Brad, which Nardil are you using?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Did you have hypersomnia or narcolepsy then? atleast for the 1st few weeks? I can hardly keep my eyes open. What if I get murdered?! *starts having short, panicky breathing* **falls asleep**
> 
> Hey, Brad, which Nardil are you using?


The first few weeks i slept a lot more and when i was still (like sitting on a chair) i constantly dozed off. But it disappears with time, to 90%.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Im willing to suffer a bit more if it works faster, but is this a proven method and how fast would you bump it up? i'm currently on day 2 and taking 30 mg. what would you suggest viper?
> sorry my ignorance but are u on nardil currently?


I start on 60 and take 90 for 2-3 days of the week, then drop down to 30-45 maintenance dose once I start getting the dizziness on standing.
I don't know how much it's proven, but if you check the official page from the maker they do say to increase as fast as tolerable up to 90-mg if needed so you'd assume they also found that the best way to work.

It does cause some extra side effects though when on higher dose, constipation, urinary hesitance mainly for me but they go when I lower it to maintenance and just get left with insomnia for the most part, if I stay on the higher amount for longer it starts to effect sexual function as well.

But to note, I seem to be failry alone here with this approach, other people have found their own methods that they feel works better.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

viper1431 said:


> I start on 60 and take 90 for 2-3 days of the week, then drop down to 30-45 maintenance dose once I start getting the dizziness on standing.
> I don't know how much it's proven, but if you check the official page from the maker they do say to increase as fast as tolerable up to 90-mg if needed so you'd assume they also found that the best way to work.
> 
> It does cause some extra side effects though when on higher dose, constipation, urinary hesitance mainly for me but they go when I lower it to maintenance and just get left with insomnia for the most part, if I stay on the higher amount for longer it starts to effect sexual function as well.
> ...


interesting method, the nardil version i'm taking is made by erfa (canadian) and they suggest to go up to 60 if you can deal with the SE, 90mg does seem a bit high. When you say you drop down for maintenance dose, does it mean you started this recently? I assumed maintenance is a dose you stick to once you know the optimal dose, i'm not sure how long you have been on nardil so if you explain i appreciate it


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

I've been on it for many years, but I've stopped form time to time for various reasons but not because it has stopped working.
Yeah I only spike it with 90 for a couple days a week just to help it kick start. I can't stay on 60 or 90 because my blood pressure keeps dropping so I pick a maintenence dose that keeps my blood pressure steady.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

viper1431 said:


> I've been on it for many years, but I've stopped form time to time for various reasons but not because it has stopped working.
> Yeah I only spike it with 90 for a couple days a week just to help it kick start. I can't stay on 60 or 90 because my blood pressure keeps dropping so I pick a maintenence dose that keeps my blood pressure steady.


i see, i guess the more i hear peoples experience with this drug the more i believe this is the most complicated antidepressant i have ever heard of! as long as it works i guess thats all that matters, i just hope everyone on this drug can find their sweet spot


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

apparently anti histamins are not allowed with maoi, any of you taken an antihistamin with nardil before? if so did it cause a drop in blood pressure? i read in some forum that taking antihistamin in small amounts should be ok, wonder if anyone agrees with that


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> apparently anti histamins are not allowed with maoi, any of you taken an antihistamin with nardil before? if so did it cause a drop in blood pressure? i read in some forum that taking antihistamin in small amounts should be ok, wonder if anyone agrees with that


Pretty much most antihistamines are safe with Nardil, except in large doses.

Simple OTC antihistamines like clarityn (lortadine) has been used to lessen/reverse serotonin induced erectile dysfunction.


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## 0707129r (Apr 22, 2013)

It's great that so many people are now trying nardil, I really believe it's the only drug that can really deal with social anxiety consistently over a long period of time. Nardil is the only real option (before viable 5-HT1A receptor agonists become available). 

As long as people are sensible in regards to dose, and do not crank up the dose too high, too fast, it should work for the majority with SAD/ depressive issues. Just don't expect it to work overnight, likely to see the real results after several months (anything before this is likely just hypomania). Any side effects should dissipate over time due to dowregulation etc, and dose can be easily tailored as well.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> Pretty much most antihistamines are safe with Nardil, except in large doses.
> 
> Simple OTC antihistamines like clarityn (lortadine) has been used to lessen/reverse serotonin induced erectile dysfunction.


Thank God! i get seasonal allergies and need to take antihistamine medication to combat the itchy throat runny nose etc ... I guess even if i get a cold i can use it since i can't use pseudophedrine


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> Pretty much most antihistamines are safe with Nardil, except in large doses.


Why would they be bad in large doses? I'm curious because I will be taking mirtazapine which is quite a strong antihistamine. I know histamine itself is an issue that could precipitate a hypertensive crisis, although only in some people, but an antihistamine shouldn't be a problem?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Why would they be bad in large doses? I'm curious because I will be taking mirtazapine which is quite a strong antihistamine. I know histamine itself is an issue that could precipitate a hypertensive crisis, although only in some people, but an antihistamine shouldn't be a problem?


I have personally used Mirtazapine with Nardil and there's no problem. Although in large doses it increases norepinephrine too much which would not be optimal with Nardil.

It's hard to drag all antihistamines over one edge, as a lot of them have individual differences. I would guess that most of them are okay even in large doses, a few don't however.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

today is day 4 on 30mg and went for a walk in the mall and couldn't believe that i was feeling a little off balanced, sorta like when you get drunk after a party and are walking back home and have to watch not to fall down. Wonder what happens if i increase the dose to 45mg.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

not sure if this was the right decision, but after 4 days on 30 mg i took my first dose of 45mg. Not sure how soon i'm suppose to notice the side effects, on 30mg i just felt sleepy. Will keep at 45mg for two weeks and if i can tolerate that will probably go to 60mg. wish me luck


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

I like the drunk walking part  Never lasts long though for me.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

yah, funny enough i haven't had hypotension when getting up from a chair, only when i take a walk longer than 10 mins per se. 

I started taking my dose at night, and funny enough have been sleeping straight till morning!!! I usually wake up several times a night and have bad insomnia for years. I hope this doesnt go away, love the non disturbed sleep at night so far


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

I know its way too early and might be a placebo effect but today is day 5 and i would say i feel 10-15% better already, maybe because i'm sleep through the night undistributed? don't know but i will record everything here just so anyone else went through the same thing


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Usually when I read experiences people are having trouble sleeping on MAOIs, so be thankful!

I actually have been doing lots of research and I think i'm going to go with Parnate rather than Nardil. My biggest problems are anhedonia/depression and it seems Parnate is the clear winner there.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Usually when I read experiences people are having trouble sleeping on MAOIs, so be thankful!
> 
> I actually have been doing lots of research and I think i'm going to go with Parnate rather than Nardil. My biggest problems are anhedonia/depression and it seems Parnate is the clear winner there.


I think nardil helps with anhedonia as i suffer from that as well parnate probably does as well. I also read parnate is more effective for those with depression. Does canada manufacture their own parnate?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I think nardil helps with anhedonia as i suffer from that as well parnate probably does as well. I also read parnate is more effective for those with depression. Does canada manufacture their own parnate?


Yah I don't really care about social anxiety much, I just have regular anxiety but I'm the type of person who responds to stimulating drugs for anxiety. Like a lot of people complain wellbutrin made their anxiety worse, for me it made it better.

GlaxoSmithKline makes the parnate here. It's apparently cheaper than the nardil too.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I don't really care about social anxiety much, I just have regular anxiety but I'm the type of person who responds to stimulating drugs for anxiety. Like a lot of people complain wellbutrin made their anxiety worse, for me it made it better.
> 
> GlaxoSmithKline makes the parnate here. It's apparently cheaper than the nardil too.


I was one of those individuals that hoped so much that wellbutrin would work for me. . . i guess parnate will most likely be a better choice and i know its suppose to kick in faster than nardil.

Compared to ssri's/snri's maoi's are much cheaper so that a plus so i won't even complain about the price of nardil as it comes something like $1.5 a day if i take 60mg  7 years of lexapro put a big dent in my pocket and i believe only recently they went generic.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I was one of those individuals that hoped so much that wellbutrin would work for me. . . i guess parnate will most likely be a better choice and i know its suppose to kick in faster than nardil.
> 
> Compared to ssri's/snri's maoi's are much cheaper so that a plus so i won't even complain about the price of nardil as it comes something like $1.5 a day if i take 60mg  7 years of lexapro put a big dent in my pocket and i believe only recently they went generic.


Nice, yah the TCAs are the cheapest. I mean it was like 6 bucks for a months supply for me hah.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Nice, yah the TCAs are the cheapest. I mean it was like 6 bucks for a months supply for me hah.


vowwww! how the hell can they make money on that? you think about the cost of manufacturing and shipping and all that plus the fact that they are not prescribed that often which means there is less demand for them but hey you can't beat that price


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> vowwww! how the hell can they make money on that? you think about the cost of manufacturing and shipping and all that plus the fact that they are not prescribed that often which means there is less demand for them but hey you can't beat that price


manufacturing is dirt cheap though. It's like video games the digital is worth the same as the physical because really it costs them pennies to manufacture. With pills it's not even fractions of pennies.

Man you are lucky you only had to do 4 days washout. I'm really hitting a low and I keep getting all these suicidal thoughts but I have to fight it. I mean I probably won't do it because I still have hope but I already have it all planned out. If my doc doesn't prescribe the MAOI I have no clue what will happen in the state I am in hah.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> manufacturing is dirt cheap though. It's like video games the digital is worth the same as the physical because really it costs them pennies to manufacture. With pills it's not even fractions of pennies.
> 
> Man you are lucky you only had to do 4 days washout. I'm really hitting a low and I keep getting all these suicidal thoughts but I have to fight it. I mean I probably won't do it because I still have hope but I already have it all planned out. If my doc doesn't prescribe the MAOI I have no clue what will happen in the state I am in hah.


i was lucky but then again I have to wait around 8 weeks to get results and thats driving me nuts. I also took a year and half off meds completely and tried alot of so many alternative methods without much success, talk about losing my mind! Take my advice my friend, start googling psychiatrist in your area and shoot that email, its just a plan B so if she refuses to prescribe it to you you have a plan B. I know how hard it is with the bad thoughts as i've been there and still got another 7 or 8 weeks to go, just think about how fast the months pass and soon we'll leave all this behind and laugh about it


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> i was lucky but then again I have to weight around 8 weeks to get results and thats driving me nuts. I also took a year and half off meds completely and tried alot of so many alternative methods without much success, talk about losing my mind! Take my advice my friend, start googling psychiatrist in your area and shoot that email, its just a plan B so if she refuses to prescribe it to you you have a plan B. I know how hard it is with the bad thoughts as i've been there and still got another 7 or 8 weeks to go, just think about how fast the months pass and soon we'll leave all this behind and laugh about it


Heh, yah I just don't have the drive to follow through with different doctors.

Good point on the waiting, but hey at least you feeling 10-15% better!


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Heh, yah I just don't have the drive to follow through with different doctors.
> 
> Good point on the waiting, but hey at least you feeling 10-15% better!


I don't know what it is, might be placebo, but i feel somewhere between 10-15% better i'd say. I have taken klonopin for a few days which is a good indication and i don't even feel like have any. I usually take it two or three times a week max but wanna see if i can go a week without given that nardil hasn't kicked in fully (obviously)


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Day 6: Nardil nap! was just getting ready to head out and as if someone shot me with a tranquilizer gun i felt my eyes heavy and within a few minutes I had to lay down and take a 45 min nap.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hah that sucks, would suck if it happened while you were doing something important like operating heavy machinery 

Today is the day I find out if I get parnate! hehe


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Hah that sucks, would suck if it happened while you were doing something important like operating heavy machinery
> 
> Today is the day I find out if I get parnate! hehe


that does suck, even if you are driving a car but from what i read its temporary. Keeping fingers crossed for ya, update us


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> that does suck, even if you are driving a car but from what i read its temporary. Keeping fingers crossed for ya, update us


hehe true.

Yah I'll update you. I popped half a zopiclone to help with anxiety. Anymore and i'll be falling asleep hehe. Zopiclone actually works really well, some say better than benzos, once you find the right dose.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> hehe true.
> 
> Yah I'll update you. I popped half a zopiclone to help with anxiety. Anymore and i'll be falling asleep hehe. Zopiclone actually works really well, some say better than benzos, once you find the right dose.


never tried them, hope you feel better soon. I just recently bought some phenibut and i'm pretty impressed, its different feeling than benzos and takes a few hours to take effect. I only try to take it once a week so i don't build a tolerance.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> never tried them, hope you feel better soon. I just recently bought some phenibut and i'm pretty impressed, its different feeling than benzos and takes a few hours to take effect. I only try to take it once a week so i don't build a tolerance.


Yah I need 5 grams of phenibut to feel anything. And usually it's just easier to talk to people while on it. If I don't go talking to people I don't really notice anything. It helped during some withdrawals for me.

The doctor gave me Parnate. It was not easy, I brought up why doctors feel so scared to give medications that could help people. She went over some of her experiences and stuff. I almost felt bad at how the RCMP targets doctors in Canada. Anyways, so I asked her if she could refer me to someone who does prescribe them. After a lot of discussion that followed she decided to do it. And man i'm going to be extra careful no doubt. I just want to get better.

Anyways, I won't see the med till late Tuesday as they had to order it.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I need 5 grams of phenibut to feel anything. And usually it's just easier to talk to people while on it. If I don't go talking to people I don't really notice anything. It helped during some withdrawals for me.
> 
> The doctor gave me Parnate. It was not easy, I brought up why doctors feel so scared to give medications that could help people. She went over some of her experiences and stuff. I almost felt bad at how the RCMP targets doctors in Canada. Anyways, so I asked her if she could refer me to someone who does prescribe them. After a lot of discussion that followed she decided to do it. And man i'm going to be extra careful no doubt. I just want to get better.
> 
> Anyways, I won't see the med till late Tuesday as they had to order it.


Congrats on getting it bro!  I know what a relief must have been when she agreed to it as i was in that boat just shy of two weeks ago. I followed alot of your posts and I know like myself and so many others you have been through alot of medication and the roller coasters that come with it and even though I don't know you personally i can relate to you or anyone else whose going through this. That is great and im positive this is the best medication out there for depression and will follow your journal if you make one.

Its ridiculous how they can prescribe benzos or stimulants or any other medicine that can be abused left and right and yet when it comes to a drug that has been around for half a century which can work long term with all the side effects known they can be so scared to prescribe it.

Only a few more days and you are on your way. I did alot of reading on parnate as I wasn't sure which would be better for me and decided it was Nardil. Both medications have a very high rating and I can't wait for another 5 or 6 weeks for it to begin its magic, at least i'm pretty optimistic


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah it's a sad state we live in. Yah askapatient.com Nardil is 4.1/5 and parnate is 4.2/5. Although if you read the ones who love Nardil they all still get the weight gain, fatigue and such, but I guess Nardil is so good they are willing to live with it hehe.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah it's a sad state we live in. Yah askapatient.com Nardil is 4.1/5 and parnate is 4.2/5. Although if you read the ones who love Nardil they all still get the weight gain, fatigue and such, but I guess Nardil is so good they are willing to live with it hehe.


i also noticed 90 percent of the low ratings came from people who were on it for 6 weeks or less and these meds just start working around that time and the rating can even be higher if we omit those


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

One week in: 

first two days on 30mg, last 5 on 45mg

Had hunger issues in the first few days but last two days have gone to normal, hope it stays that way.

Sleeping better as I take all my 45mg at night right before bed. Before Nardil i had bad insomnia, would wake up 5 times a night and very light sleep, best sleep i've been getting in years this week. Not sure when the insomnia is going to kick in.

For a day or two inbetween I felt marginally better (10-15%) but thats not hypomania so just gonna go to week 2 at 45mg.

No constipation, no insomnia as of yet.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Edit:

Constipation : 
Stomach didn't work for a full 40 hours till this morning and thats after eating alot of fiber and fruits and taking laxatives.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I will edit the constipation part  Stomach didn't work for a full 48 hours till this morning and thats after eating alot of fiber and fruits and taking laxatives.


Take Magnesium 500mg+ daily, it will help with the constipation a bit.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> Take Magnesium 500mg+ daily, it will help with the constipation a bit.


Thanks Chop, I know you have alot of experience with this drug and I always read your posts. I usually take magnesium so maybe i will take a bit more. I'm only 8 days in and can't tell you how bad I need nardil to work


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Thanks Chop, I know you have alot of experience with this drug and I always read your posts. I usually take magnesium so maybe i will take a bit more. I'm only 8 days in and can't tell you how bad I need nardil to work


I've noticed the more magnesium i get the better my stomach works. Also eating lots of fibers like müsli works like a charm. Certain food types do however wreak havoc on me. Constipation is one of those side effects that has remained unchanged, so I'll have to live with it.

Dulcolax is the most effective laxative I've ever tried, but it shouldn't be used too often, as it can cause permanent bowel problems.

I hope it works out well for you!


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks chop!


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Just and update, could not log in earlier as I kept getting a message that i was permanently banned! :huh does this happen often? glad its removed anyway . . but weired . . . :shock

Day 13: increased the dosage from 45mg to 60mg. Reason was that I so far had constipation as my major side effect and thought i can tolerate it with laxatives and lots of fiber. Also the fact that there are so many different methods recommended i decided to try and see what happens. Not sure if its placebo or not, but today was feeling very chill and confident, maybe the nardil euphoria is kicking in ? definitely too early to tell, but im curious to know if you get the euphoria does that mean you have reached a good dosage? mean anything at all? appreciate some feedback and will update soon


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> Just and update, could not log in earlier as I kept getting a message that i was permanently banned! :huh does this happen often? glad its removed anyway . . but weired . . . :shock
> 
> Day 13: increased the dosage from 45mg to 60mg. Reason was that I so far had constipation as my major side effect and thought i can tolerate it with laxatives and lots of fiber. Also the fact that there are so many different methods recommended i decided to try and see what happens. Not sure if its placebo or not, but today was feeling very chill and confident, maybe the nardil euphoria is kicking in ? definitely too early to tell, but im curious to know if you get the euphoria does that mean you have reached a good dosage? mean anything at all? appreciate some feedback and will update soon


Euphoria feels great, but it is usually a sign that things are going too far in the right direction. You want to be euthymic, not hyperthymic or hypomanic.

I would definitely wait at least a week on your new dosage, to see how it affects you. However, Phenelzine does definitely promote a relaxed mood; it works as a GABA-T inhibitor, one of the relatively few drugs that have this method of action (I think).

Good luck with your treatment. Phenelzine is one of my favourite drugs; the side effects were too much for me to tolerate, but it is a powerful drug worthy of respect.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

VERBW said:


> Euphoria feels great, but it is usually a sign that things are going too far in the right direction. You want to be euthymic, not hyperthymic or hypomanic.
> 
> I would definitely wait at least a week on your new dosage, to see how it affects you. However, Phenelzine does definitely promote a relaxed mood; it works as a GABA-T inhibitor, one of the relatively few drugs that have this method of action (I think).
> 
> Good luck with your treatment. Phenelzine is one of my favourite drugs; the side effects were too much for me to tolerate, but it is a powerful drug worthy of respect.


Thanks for your feedback VERBW, i will not increase the dose , I will most likely not go higher than 60mg for a least few weeks if the side effects don't increase too much. So far its the constipation and increased appetite but i'm sure more will develop as the drug builds in.


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> Thanks for your feedback VERBW, i will not increase the dose , I will most likely not go higher than 60mg for a least few weeks if the side effects don't increase too much. So far its the constipation and increased appetite but i'm sure more will develop as the drug builds in.


The increased appetite never went away for me.

How are you finding your blood pressure? Do you get postural hypotension (i.e. feeling dizzy and lightheaded when you stand up)? I was fine on Nardil at 60mg, but as soon as I hit 75mg, I became so weak I could barely leave my bed.

The other thing about Phenelzine was sexual dysfunction. I started go soft during sex, couldn't achieve orgasm, and felt no pleasure during. If you have the wherewithal, you should definitely try and see if that's a problem for you


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

VERBW said:


> The increased appetite never went away for me.
> 
> How are you finding your blood pressure? Do you get postural hypotension (i.e. feeling dizzy and lightheaded when you stand up)? I was fine on Nardil at 60mg, but as soon as I hit 75mg, I became so weak I could barely leave my bed.
> 
> The other thing about Phenelzine was sexual dysfunction. I started go soft during sex, couldn't achieve orgasm, and felt no pleasure during. If you have the wherewithal, you should definitely try and see if that's a problem for you


my blood pressure is lower, its about 115/70 where before it was 125/80. I have had the postural hyptension yet, although i know chop here says thats a good sign to have and means your on the right dosage. I do feel a little light head and weaker since i started nardil though. I am single at the moment so cannot tell how my performance will be but do notice a decrease in sexual urges which is unfortunate and hope it goes away


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Day 15: 2nd day on 60mg and today experiencing complete agitation. On the first day (yesterday) i almost had a euphoria feeling and was expecting this to carry through, no luck there i guess. Not sure if a higher dose is suppose to give you agitation as a side effect:wtf


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Day 15: 2nd day on 60mg and today experiencing complete agitation. On the first day (yesterday) i almost had a euphoria feeling and was expecting this to carry through, no luck there i guess. Not sure if a higher dose is suppose to give you agitation as a side effect:wtf


Maybe it's transient and will disappear.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Maybe it's transient and will disappear.


sure hope so, i hate to enter this roller coaster, not on a daily base at least


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## VERBW (Jul 23, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> sure hope so, i hate to enter this roller coaster, not on a daily base at least


Phenelzine is a pretty dirty drug, with a very wide mode of action. It is regrettably possible that it will subside, but it may also be transient, as was said above.

I think the main message is that you've been on it for just 15 days - that's not long enough for your body to adapt fully to the drug. Give it more time, and hang in there!

I would definitely not raise your dose further, without at least two weeks of seeing how 60mg goes.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck, and hope it works out for you!


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

VERBW said:


> Phenelzine is a pretty dirty drug, with a very wide mode of action. It is regrettably possible that it will subside, but it may also be transient, as was said above.
> 
> I think the main message is that you've been on it for just 15 days - that's not long enough for your body to adapt fully to the drug. Give it more time, and hang in there!
> 
> ...


Thanks and I appreciate the support and words of encouragement. Your absolutely right that two weeks is too early and I have to wait longer. I will try to keep to 60mg for at least two weeks if i can handle the side effects.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

so its been about 4 days since the last update. I'm on day 19 of taking nardil. Here is a small summary of the last few days:

It seems that my mood changes every 2nd day! One day i'm feeling really chill and calm and the next day I'm feeling very anxious and agitated. I cannot figure out why as my dose has been the same so has my diet. Its really an emotional roller coaster. 

I cant even call the better days as hypomanic as by definition I don't think it last only one day followed by a crappy day and cycle repeats so i'm pretty confused here as I don't remember other members in the past having their mood changing on a daily basis.

Before increasing to 60mg from 45mg I had no problem sleeping and I took all my dose once a day right before bed time. Once i increased to 60mg i have been sleeping no more than 3.5-4 hours at best. I am trying to see if i take 45mg at night and 15mg once i wake up (total of 60mg) will help the sleep, too early to tell.

Sexual side effects definitely have increased at 60mg and for the first time.

yesterday i had a brief episode of postural hypotension, this was the first time

The most weird thing is that i expected my blood pressure to drop on nardil and so far it hasn't, even at 60mg. so here is an update


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

How do you guys know what your blood pressure is? Do you have one of them things the doctors use on you're arm and they pump it up? If so, what are they called and are they cheap?
I'm taking Nardil and I have no idea what it is.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

adamaus said:


> How do you guys know what your blood pressure is? Do you have one of them things the doctors use on you're arm and they pump it up? If so, what are they called and are they cheap?
> I'm taking Nardil and I have no idea what it is.


they're just called BP (blood pressure) monitors. I just borrowed mine, but it's electronic and portable.

You can look some models up online to get an idea of how much they'd cost you


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks i will try good ol trusty ebay


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

i do a blood pressure monitor daily, just make sure when you use it you are relaxed and not after a workout or any caffeine or stimulants. I usually do 3 times in a row to take the average as it fluctuates a bit


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

This any good or a cheap crappy one ? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Digi...=AU_Medical_Special_Needs&hash=item3ccd94fe3f


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

i don't know this product, but i spent like $50 to get a decent one since i need it to work consistent and long term.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Yah mine was $100 but in Canadian money 

It does it's job, seems to be accurate.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

since i started nardil 19 days ago I have added 6lbs and my weight did not fluctuate for the past two years and on any other antidepressants. So for the past three days i cut down my calories immensely and had mostly broccoli , green vegetables some some grilled fish. I still haven't lost a single pound and this recipe in the past would at least drop me by two pounds.

So i'm thinking most of this weight is water wait as my stomach (which was always flat) is bulging. Can anyone attest to that? does this go away?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but when i was researching Nardil vs. Parnate this is one of the issues I came across. Some people managed to lose weight by being EXTREMELY active and eating very properly. Any water weight gain is typically going to hold as well. Once again this is based off anecdotes.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

You can beat that weight gain, Brad! Beat it with your fist hands!


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

I can't stop losing weight on Nardil, love it


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

viper1431 said:


> I can't stop losing weight on Nardil, love it


That's cuz you touch ducks.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> That's cuz you touch ducks.


This is the best thing ever. You can touch any of my ducks whenever, kehcorpzy love:heart


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> since i started nardil 19 days ago I have added 6lbs and my weight did not fluctuate for the past two years and on any other antidepressants. So for the past three days i cut down my calories immensely and had mostly broccoli , green vegetables some some grilled fish. I still haven't lost a single pound and this recipe in the past would at least drop me by two pounds.
> 
> So i'm thinking most of this weight is water wait as my stomach (which was always flat) is bulging. Can anyone attest to that? does this go away?


Yes, it's water. It won't go away unless you quit the medication, or go to a low dose for a few days. But it will come back as soon as you go to a higher dose.


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## viper1431 (Jun 6, 2012)

Eat some raw chicken, you'll soon start losing water..


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

Do some crunches and running. You will lose the gut


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

adamaus said:


> Do some crunches and running. You will lose the gut


not sure that will help as you have to rehydrate after running and crunches doesn't get rid of extra water  will just hand on and see what happens , perhaps later i can lower the dose and see the difference


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> not sure that will help as you have to rehydrate after running and crunches doesn't get rid of extra water  will just hand on and see what happens , perhaps later i can lower the dose and see the difference


Try coffee, it is a diuretic  There's other natural diuretics you can get.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Try coffee, it is a diuretic  There's other natural diuretics you can get.


i read about how coffee and other diuretics can help, however i'm a regular coffee drinker and still i have the bloating. Its a catch 22 since when you drink coffee you become dehydrated which mean you have to drink more water to get hydrated so you go back to starting point.

From my readings i would say 70-80% of ssri users complain about the weight gain and i barely gained any weight on several ssri's that i tried. I'm just guessing that some of the side effects might subside since i'm only 3 weeks into it, fingers crossed!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> i read about how coffee and other diuretics can help, however i'm a regular coffee drinker and still i have the bloating. Its a catch 22 since when you drink coffee you become dehydrated which mean you have to drink more water to get hydrated so you go back to starting point.
> 
> From my readings i would say 70-80% of ssri users complain about the weight gain and i barely gained any weight on several ssri's that i tried. I'm just guessing that some of the side effects might subside since i'm only 3 weeks into it, fingers crossed!


Ahh I never get thirsty after coffee. But yah there's also balancing your electrolytes like salt and stuff, but that gets more complex hehe.

check out these reviews of nardil if you want to get a feel for other experiences. There's a lot of good experiences.

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=11909&name=NARDIL


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Ahh I never get thirsty after coffee. But yah there's also balancing your electrolytes like salt and stuff, but that gets more complex hehe.
> 
> check out these reviews of nardil if you want to get a feel for other experiences. There's a lot of good experiences.
> 
> http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=11909&name=NARDIL


thanks dude, i use this site frequently, its probably the best site for patient reviews. Honestly i think i can control most of the worries about MAOI's, but i obsess about having to have either a surgery (i might need one for knee replacement from wrestling and weightlifting in the younger days) or even going to a dentist. The dentist can probably give me a non-adrenaline injection but for surgery I probably have to go off nardil for 10-14 days and then get back on it which will take another few weeks to kick in. Reading some of the reviews some people who went off and came back on had trouble or it didn't work second time around. I know these are obsessive thoughts and not healthy but these are my most important concerns so far and the weight gain, insomnia and hyper active reaction I can deal with mentally at least.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> thanks dude, i use this site frequently, its probably the best site for patient reviews. Honestly i think i can control most of the worries about MAOI's, but i obsess about having to have either a surgery (i might need one for knee replacement from wrestling and weightlifting in the younger days) or even going to a dentist. The dentist can probably give me a non-adrenaline injection but for surgery I probably have to go off nardil for 10-14 days and then get back on it which will take another few weeks to kick in. Reading some of the reviews some people who went off and came back on had trouble or it didn't work second time around. I know these are obsessive thoughts and not healthy but these are my most important concerns so far and the weight gain, insomnia and hyper active reaction I can deal with mentally at least.


Ahh I hear you. I thought they could do surgery too as long as they know what not to use? Maybe i'm wrong, I haven't thought it that far through. All I can say is live your day by day and worry about problems once they come up, otherwise forget them. I don't like getting hung up on a potential future that may not even happen anytime soon. My guess is the more Nardil works the less worried you will become of the future


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Ahh I hear you. I thought they could do surgery too as long as they know what not to use? Maybe i'm wrong, I haven't thought it that far through. All I can say is live your day by day and worry about problems once they come up, otherwise forget them. I don't like getting hung up on a potential future that may not even happen anytime soon. My guess is the more Nardil works the less worried you will become of the future


true! I guess I needed to hear that. Can't plan everything for the future so best to take it day by day and deal with stuff as they come. Yeah, at 3 weeks the effect is barely antidepressant effect is not yet visible, hopefully when it kicks in most of these worries are gone. btw, have you thought of getting a bracelet/necklace that has a MAOI warning on it? I guess the bracelet would cause alot of questions since its visible to everyone, might opt for the necklace


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> true! I guess I needed to hear that. Can't plan everything for the future so best to take it day by day and deal with stuff as they come. Yeah, at 3 weeks the effect is barely antidepressant effect is not yet visible, hopefully when it kicks in most of these worries are gone. btw, have you thought of getting a bracelet/necklace that has a MAOI warning on it? I guess the bracelet would cause alot of questions since its visible to everyone, might opt for the necklace


Yah I actually found a place that makes some really cool looking stylish bracelets, though some are expensive.

These look pretty decent.

http://www.medicalert.ca/en/join/products/productDetails.asp?newId=7&p=I4506

I don't care if people know i'm on a MAOI. It's funny but I am 100% honest about my depression and meds and everything, with everyone. I don't see the big deal, it's a health problem and i'm dealing with it. I guess there's still a stigma that mental depression isn't a real condition but caused by circumstances, but those that argue that I explain quite clearly that's not the case.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I actually found a place that makes some really cool looking stylish bracelets, though some are expensive.
> 
> These look pretty decent.
> 
> ...


these are really cool! im just browsing the site, maybe this would work!


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> these are really cool! im just browsing the site, maybe this would work!


Yah I'd totally get the black or white one. I won't however invest until I know that the MAOI is working for sure and i'll be on it long term. I mean I already am starting to feel a bit better. Woke up in a much better mood today than I have been in a while. Not anything spectacular but still noticeable hehe.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Yah I'd totally get the black or white one. I won't however invest until I know that the MAOI is working for sure and i'll be on it long term. I mean I already am starting to feel a bit better. Woke up in a much better mood today than I have been in a while. Not anything spectacular but still noticeable hehe.


i'm browsing through them as if i browsing through ebay! haha, yeah, might order one in a week or two just to make sure its the meds are working. I like the dog tags. Not sure what kinda engraving shall i put on it since I work abroad and just the term Maoi might not make sense.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> i'm browsing through them as if i browsing through ebay! haha, yeah, might order one in a week or two just to make sure its the meds are working. I like the dog tags. Not sure what kinda engraving shall i put on it since I work abroad and just the term Maoi might not make sense.


Yah I am going to put
"Taking parnate/tranylcypromine (monoamine oxidase inhibitor)" 
NO DEMEROL

Something like that hehe.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Wonder if i can just put no epinephrine or demoral ? don't think i can use the word allergic since you can't really be allergic to epinephrine


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Wonder if i can just put no epinephrine or demoral ? don't think i can use the word allergic since you can't really be allergic to epinephrine


I think that once you get their attention with something like "no demerol" they are going to either research it further or call a superior to find out what this maoi is. But apparently from what I understand they teach about MAOIs in school still, even if they are rarely being used so most emergency workers should know about them.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> i work in Dubai where they dont even have Maoi's available in the country unfortunately so i had to bring it here from a two week vacation i was on. Can epinephrine kill you? I know demoral can. If i was in western europe or north america i wouldn't worry about putting nardil or maoi user, in this country i don't know though ..


Oh yah that country is a bit odd. I mean i heard some guy got arrested to spend years in jail because his shoe had traces of marijuana on it. I mean the guy stepped on it, how can he be to blame. I don't know what's going on with that case.

That's something I can't tell you, have you tried asking doctors in Dubai or even contacting a hospital to know if they are aware of this stuff?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

interesting article on epinephrine and maoi

http://emj.bmj.com/content/17/2/143.full


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> interesting article on epinephrine and maoi
> 
> http://emj.bmj.com/content/17/2/143.full


Yah but she was only on 15mg, that's not exactly a high dosage. The article makes a good point but also it's better to be safe than sorry. And yah seems Parnate is a much worse offender as they mention in the article.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

All these people on Nardil complain about hypotension. I don't get why no one does controlled loading with Tyramine to maintain blood pressure adequately. You could get something high in tyraminea nd take small amounts to see how the response is. I dunno I think I would do that hehe.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> All these people on Nardil complain about hypotension. I don't get why no one does controlled loading with Tyramine to maintain blood pressure adequately. You could get something high in tyraminea nd take small amounts to see how the response is. I dunno I think I would do that hehe.


because of tyraminitis. duh.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> because of tyraminitis. duh.


Is that an STD?


----------



## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Is that an STD?


you're clearly not in the know.

information available to geniuses only.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> you're clearly not in the know.
> 
> information available to geniuses only.


You guys always exclude us normal folk


----------



## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> You guys always exclude us normal folk


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


>


pfft, talk to the neck cuz the face don't care


----------



## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> pfft, talk to the neck cuz the face don't care


AHAHAHA! where did you find that gif?! AHAHAHAHA!


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> AHAHAHA! where did you find that gif?! AHAHAHAHA!


You have to lower your intellect a bit and they will find you! hehe ;P

Seriously that's all I do on the internet is look for stupid **** cuz none of my interests are coming back yet 

Either that or lay in bed doing nothing.


----------



## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> You have to lower your intellect a bit and they will find you! hehe ;P
> 
> Seriously that's all I do on the internet is look for stupid **** cuz none of my interests are coming back yet
> 
> Either that or lay in bed doing nothing.


your current cocktail isn't helping the anhedonia at all?

you're just on parnate and nothing else, right? for anhedonia/mdd, that is.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> your current cocktail isn't helping the anhedonia at all?
> 
> you're just on parnate and nothing else, right? for anhedonia/mdd, that is.


Oh yah anhedonia has been horrible since I quit the effexor/olanzapine. I mean even watching movies is really tough. Yah i'm only on Parnate. Keep in mind that it's still early. I only just raised it to 30mg 2 days ago. This is the therapeutic dose that helps you achieve up to 90% inhibition after about 2-3 weeks.

Edit: I should add that it has sort of helped with sexual anhedonia. I mean before I would masturbate and the orgasm was just "eh". But man now the orgasm is amazing and I realize that this is what orgasms are supposed to feel like haha.


----------



## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Oh yah anhedonia has been horrible since I quit the effexor/olanzapine. I mean even watching movies is really tough. Yah i'm only on Parnate. Keep in mind that it's still early. I only just raised it to 30mg 2 days ago. This is the therapeutic dose that helps you achieve up to 90% inhibition after about 2-3 weeks.
> 
> Edit: I should add that it has sort of helped with sexual anhedonia. I mean before I would masturbate and the orgasm was just "eh". But man now the orgasm is amazing and I realize that this is what orgasms are supposed to feel like haha.


check your thread - i don't wanna thread hijack.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Appreciate the kindness for not highjacking my thread with gifs and masturbation exchange stories, how can i ever repay you two? lol :um


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Appreciate the kindness for not highjacking my thread with gifs and masturbation exchange stories, how can i ever repay you two? lol :um


No problem. For now just live life as normal, one day we will call upon you when it's time you repay your debt.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> No problem. For now just live life as normal, one day we will call upon you when it's time you repay your debt.


Little bit of Don coreleone in there:afr


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Thought I post an update :

Day 22: 

Might be a little early, but I feel a little less anxious for the past day or so, not sure if its beginning to kick in. I can tell you that I had no such thing as Euphoria, I had one very good day about 10 days ago (barely can call that euphoria) and then the next day things went back to normal. I still take 1mg of klonopin twice a week when i have to go to meetings just incase, although slowly i feel as if i can do without it,we shall see

Other things I have noticed:

*Constipation: Yes, I poop once every second day and i'm eating alot of fiber and use laxatives. This could add a little bit to the weight problem of course, at least a good pound or two. 

*Weight gain: Yes, but have it under more control as of the last 3 days (dropped albs)

*Insomnia: No more than 4 hours of sleep a night at 60mg, on 45mg I could easily get 6 un-distrubted hours which was great. Not taking any medication for sleep. 

*Memory: Feel as if my short term memory is weaker, takes me longer to remember names, places and events.

*Confidence: A little higher than last week, notice little things don't agitate me and I can state my opinion much more clear and confidently 

*Sexual Side effects: I know its suppose to subside after a while but as of now my urge is down substantially and getting hard is also challenging.

*Postural Hypotension: NONE! I had one incident where i was trying to get out of bed and for a few seconds i felt dizzy, thats the closest i came to feeling any. Shall I expect hypotension to happen later or is this a side effect some don't experience?


----------



## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Thought I post an update :
> 
> Day 22:
> 
> ...


Most people get no postural hypotension until it kicks in, and that almost NEVER happens at just 22 days. Once it hits though, it'll all be pretty amazing; all but for the fact that you'll now be spending the majority of your day awkwardly trying to stand up in super slow motion. THIS IS GOOD. A GOOD THING!


----------



## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> Thought I post an update :
> 
> Day 22:
> 
> ...


Have you tried anything for the sexual side effects?
Also, I noticed my memory has gone to ****


----------



## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

adamaus said:


> Have you tried anything for the sexual side effects?
> Also, I noticed my memory has gone to ****


the safest way to deal with most of nardils side effects is just by waiting them out, not augmenting. you could if you really wanted, by my take is just to outlive those fuggers

except some, like cognitive issues.. might wanna take something for that eventually.. OR! be like me! I wear my 'Nardil induced stupid' on my sleeves!


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Looks like some good news with things like confidence and such! Hope it gets better.

I have 0 side effects with parnate unless you consider increased sex drive a side effect. The early wakeup the other night I think was a one off as I made up for it with 11 hours of sleep last night. I guess they can still kick in but hope they dont! hehe


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Most people get no postural hypotension until it kicks in, and that almost NEVER happens at just 22 days. Once it hits though, it'll all be pretty amazing; all but for the fact that you'll now be spending the majority of your day awkwardly trying to stand up in super slow motion. THIS IS GOOD. A GOOD THING!


Well, my blood pressure is still high, but feeling the anti anxiety benefits and from what i read it might take another week before the anti-depressant properties kick in, i will update you


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

adamaus said:


> Have you tried anything for the sexual side effects?
> Also, I noticed my memory has gone to ****


I haven't as I'm just hoping it will go away and don't want to add too many drugs to what im taking now. If it doesn't subside in a month or two then i might think about adding something


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Looks like some good news with things like confidence and such! Hope it gets better.
> 
> I have 0 side effects with parnate unless you consider increased sex drive a side effect. The early wakeup the other night I think was a one off as I made up for it with 11 hours of sleep last night. I guess they can still kick in but hope they dont! hehe


thats great, i would think the biggest concern is the insomnia with parnate so keep your fingers crossed that it doesn't come.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> thats great, i would think the biggest concern is the insomnia with parnate so keep your fingers crossed that it doesn't come.


Yah I actually take sleep meds though, I have been taking them even before parnate as i always had trouble sleeping. So they could be the only reason I'm still sleeping hehe.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

quick update:

Day 25: Its been about two weeks since i increased the dose from 45mg to 60mg. At 45mg i had no problem sleeping but at 60mg I am lucky if i get more than 3.5 hours on average. I talked about some of the side effects in an earlier post. Some side effects have remained the same, although the sexual side effects have become worse, hard to even get a boner (pardon my french).

The good news is that i'm seeing a pattern in the last few days, and my anxiety is much much less than what it was two weeks ago. Hypomania? honestly I don't even know what that means anymore as I do feel more confident and positive but not enough as if i took ecstasy. At work I have been more social, proactive and confident with both co-workers as well as when dealing with clients. I think everyone around me is noticing that. Yesterday I had to call a very difficult client and convince him not to cancel his contract with our firm and managed to do so after confidently convincing him. No one thought he would change his mind but I did  Now this would have not been possible a weeks back when i had to pop down a few benzos just to get relax enough to make that phone call. 

Anyhow, I don't want to jinx this, and I hope this continues to improve and I don't have to increase the dose more than 60mg. I'm quiet happy at this dose and if things get better in a few weeks I can even try to drop the dose to 45mg to get rid of the ridiculous sexual side effects and the insomnia.

The weight problem is more under control, I have been dieting hard and watching what I'm eating and even lost the initial sweet tooth i got from nardil. I initially gained like 8 lbs in two weeks on nardil and have it back down to only 4lbs (probably water retention)

I will update soon guys, and hope I can make some good progress and bring some home to those who are curious about this drug.

cheers


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> quick update:
> 
> Day 25: Its been about two weeks since i increased the dose from 45mg to 60mg. At 45mg i had no problem sleeping but at 60mg I am lucky if i get more than 3.5 hours on average. I talked about some of the side effects in an earlier post. Some side effects have remained the same, although the sexual side effects have become worse, hard to even get a boner (pardon my french).
> 
> ...


That's awesome minus the le boner part. Leave yourself alone sexually for a while see what comes of it. Maybe after a while of doing nothing things will stabilize. If not you can always search for add-ons.

Calling the customer not to cancel definitely seems nerve wrecking. It's not like they canceled because they were happy hehe.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> That's awesome minus the le boner part. Leave yourself alone sexually for a while see what comes of it. Maybe after a while of doing nothing things will stabilize. If not you can always search for add-ons.
> 
> haha, i have left the poor guy alone, there is no point beating a dead horse


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> kehcorpz said:
> 
> 
> > That's awesome minus the le boner part. Leave yourself alone sexually for a while see what comes of it. Maybe after a while of doing nothing things will stabilize. If not you can always search for add-ons.
> ...


----------



## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> bradfairway said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to quit my fapping marathon. Today I'm on no fap day. So far it hasn't been too bad. My morning jog sort of dulled out the horniness a bit and just made me a bit high and lazy. I'm also trying to avoid coming across any pictures of hot women haha.
> ...


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> bradfairway said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to quit my fapping marathon. Today I'm on no fap day. So far it hasn't been too bad. My morning jog sort of dulled out the horniness a bit and just made me a bit high and lazy. I'm also trying to avoid coming across any pictures of hot women haha.
> ...


----------



## Turtle (Jun 14, 2006)

I took Nardil once and the biggest side effect I got from the drug seemed like an inability to focus properly, even when I wanted to... and maybe some short term memory problems as well? I think that goes along with the lack of focus... obviously there were sexual side effects but those happen with almost every anti-anxiety drug imo, and I think if you stay on it long enough it should go away, or you'll adapt to it, etc...

I never found a way to get myself to become more focused, however, it was weird... I was very motivated, and outgoing, etc... but just unfocused to I looked like a klutz / silly it felt like... has anyone else had this similar problem with taking Nardil? Not able to focus, even if you wanted to? Just wondering...


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Turtle said:


> I took Nardil once and the biggest side effect I got from the drug seemed like an inability to focus properly, even when I wanted to... and maybe some short term memory problems as well? I think that goes along with the lack of focus... obviously there were sexual side effects but those happen with almost every anti-anxiety drug imo, and I think if you stay on it long enough it should go away, or you'll adapt to it, etc...
> 
> I never found a way to get myself to become more focused, however, it was weird... I was very motivated, and outgoing, etc... but just unfocused to I looked like a klutz / silly it felt like... has anyone else had this similar problem with taking Nardil? Not able to focus, even if you wanted to? Just wondering...


i agree, so far my motivation is up but my focus is not as sharp as before even reading an article has become a challenge.


----------



## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> i agree, so far my motivation is up but my focus is not as sharp as before even reading an article has become a challenge.


Yeah this has definitely been a problem for me too. I wonder if there is a way to combat safely combat this with racetams or some other non-prescription solution..?


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> kehcorpz said:
> 
> 
> > damn dude, thats some serious workout! you are not putting any testosterone in your break fast are ya?  You need to find a woman who can hold up with your appetite :banana
> ...


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

last night had the worse insomnia since i started Nardil about 25 days ago. Did not sleep even for half hour. Not sure if this means anything in terms of MAO inhibition since i was getting between 3.5-6 hours on nardil. Did not do anything out of ordinary like have caffeine late or huge dinner, just another regular night. Just curious if this is a good sign and i should stick with it or it doesn't really mean anything? anyone?


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Just get a doc to prescribe zopiclone. I haven't had any issues with sleep yet and I take half the dose. I drink tonnes of coffee during the day. I usually go to bed from 9pm to 5am or 10pm-6am. Yah I've been an early bird since Parnate.


----------



## Chiko (May 16, 2013)

I was in my doctor new doctor
She said today we not prescribe this med cause its too old lol


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> The damn doctor visits cost alot , so i have been trying to save money as insurance here doesn't cover seeing a pdoc and regular doctors are hesitant to prescribe sleep medication. I got my hand on some lyrica, some people say it makes them drowsy so i am taking 150mg tonight just to see, if it doesn't work its just another day without sleep so nothing to lose


That really sucks. I find it hilarious that doctors always have trouble giving away sleeping pills. I mean seriously do they honestly think it is healthier to not sleep than to be dependent on a drug? Where do these guys come from....


----------



## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> That really sucks. I find it hilarious that doctors always have trouble giving away sleeping pills. I mean seriously do they honestly think it is healthier to not sleep than to be dependent on a drug? Where do these guys come from....


All your posts sound so much happier now, Kehcorpz.

We don't do that here..


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> took my first dose of lyrica (150mg) last night and after a weird night of sleep with really vivid dreams and waking up feeling hung over i have euphoria today. The only thing i can complain about is that i haven't passed a stool for over two days due to nardil and feel bloated. Taken alot of laxatives and been eating fiber (fruits, vegetables, oatmeal) like crazy but the sob is just not coming out


Get some Metamucil too! hehe As far as laxatives get anything with Docusate Sodium and drink tonnes of water when you take it.

Speaking of weird nights of sleep, woke up at 3am today! hah


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Get some Metamucil too! hehe As far as laxatives get anything with Docusate Sodium and drink tonnes of water when you take it.
> 
> Speaking of weird nights of sleep, woke up at 3am today! hah


yeah, i'm gonna have to try new laxatives see what happens. As for sleep, try lyrica! not sure if you've had it or not, had a weird night but feel totally rested and high today


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> yeah, i'm gonna have to try new laxatives see what happens. As for sleep, try lyrica! not sure if you've had it or not, had a weird night but feel totally rested and high today


I will see waht my doc says for now zopiclone is fine. I won't see my doc for a while. So where do you live? I take it it's not 3am there hehe.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> i am in uae now, travel for work to turkey alot and london. Its noon right now here


Oh yah totally forgot. Must be the 3am thing


----------



## zendog78 (Jan 27, 2010)

Nardil is a dead end street

Works great but the side effects make your life a misery.

Nardil makes you feel better than well, and that's not realistic.


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

zendog78 said:


> Nardil is a dead end street
> 
> Works great but the side effects make your life a misery.
> 
> Nardil makes you feel better than well, and that's not realistic.


all i'm hoping for is for them to subside and im on 60mg and feeling somewhat better, I think the anti anxiety effects have kicked in a bit. If i can manage to drop the dose to 45mg i think the side effects were much more tolerable but right now the the constipation (4 days and stomach still hasn't work!) and sexual side effects are horrible like nothing i experience on any drug.

Edit: For constipation i'm eating veggie and fruits and oats and brans like crazy, alot of coffee and some laxatives but it hasn't worked so far.


----------



## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Parnate is great at making me regular. It stimulates my bowel movements quite quickly. I used to always need to drink coffee every morning before I could poop but now I wake up and am already ready to poop.

You could always add another drug for the libido issues. Some say pramipexole though I would be careful with that as it can cause serious anhedonia. Olanzapine can maybe help as it's a powerful 5-ht2c antagonist. Becoming a monk is an option  Start your own group "The Nardil Monks".


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

" Start your own group "The Nardil Monks"


lol, I like that term!


----------



## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Here is a question to the experienced nardil users:

I am exactly 28 days on nardil and have been feeling somewhat better as of the last week. Panic attacks have stopped mostly and Its 60% easier to make eye contact and start a conversation (although i don't approach strangers for no reason and try to chat). I feel somewhat more optimistic but not overly. I don't feel a high, just feel like how i was when lexapro was working when it was working at its best.

Now, i read about hypomania but i didn't feel euphoric or anything after a dose increase, and still don't feel like i have it and i'm on 60mg for the last two weeks. People around me just said i seem more positive but didn't say i was acting euphoric or super happy or anything.

Is its normal for nardil to start working around the 3rd week briefly and me feeling better by 4th week? Also is it possible not to get hypomania when someone starts nardil? thanx


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> Here is a question to the experienced nardil users:
> 
> I am exactly 28 days on nardil and have been feeling somewhat better as of the last week. Panic attacks have stopped mostly and Its 60% easier to make eye contact and start a conversation (although i don't approach strangers for no reason and try to chat). I feel somewhat more optimistic but not overly. I don't feel a high, just feel like how i was when lexapro was working when it was working at its best.
> 
> ...


It is a bigger chance you won't get hypomania, rather then getting it.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Becareful with prunes man. They are known for having a decent amount of Tyramine.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Becareful with prunes man. They are known for having a decent amount of Tyramine.


didn't know that, I had like 3 or 4 and didn't feel a thing! I guess by now MAOI inhibition is pretty high so might be one of those things that doesn't effect me. I have been pretty careful with things but by mistake i had feta cheese a few days ago (not sure if its on the safe list) and got scared after i realized what i had done. THankfully nothing happened.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

bradfairway said:


> Today was day 31th day of taking Nardil (last 18 days at 60mg). I took lyrica last night since i'm suffering from really bad insomnia (some nights one 1-3 hour of light sleep). The 150mg of lyrica knocked me out the whole night but the whole day i felt extremely tired and my memory was at its lowest. Don't think I will mix these two often as I was sleepy the whole day.
> 
> A few days ago I did not have any bowl movement for 4 straight days and that sucked big time. I did take extra fiber such as more oatmeal and bananas but no success. Anyhow two days ago my stomach worked and that was a relief. Yesterday I tried eating alot of prunes and broccoli took 4 liters of water in a day and used a laxative duphalac which contains lactulose which is suppose to be very gentle on the system. I also have been taking one full spoon of coconut oil (it has way too many benefits to list) in the last 3 days. For the first time in three weeks I had bowl movements two days in a row!  will keep this method up and suggest you try this if you are on an MAOI and suffer from constipation.


I gave up coffee because it made anxious but I have now resumed it. It doesn't make me so anxious anymore and I need it for bowel movement, atleast in the morning. But I understand Nardil is worse in this regard.

/depressed77


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

oh i had a few figs as well today, that is suppose to be high in tyramine, had no idea just looked it up. Not sure i got lucky or its just that it doesn't effect me in moderate levels


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

depressed77 said:


> I gave up coffee because it made anxious but I have now resumed it. It doesn't make me so anxious anymore and I need it for bowel movement, atleast in the morning. But I understand Nardil is worse in this regard.
> 
> /depressed77


Before nardil coffee always helped with bowl movement, but with nardil i found it pretty useless as i usually have 3 cups a day and didn't seem to work, although i know it helps alot of people on MAOIs for this purpose.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> oh i had a few figs as well today, that is suppose to be high in tyramine, had no idea just looked it up. Not sure i got lucky or its just that it doesn't effect me in moderate levels


Everyone is different. Your blood pressure may spike up say to 170 or something but you would never notice.

I remember I had a bp of 165 one time a while back and I felt pretty great with it. I only found out because of my anal checking hehe.


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

bradfairway said:


> oh i had a few figs as well today, that is suppose to be high in tyramine, had no idea just looked it up. Not sure i got lucky or its just that it doesn't effect me in moderate levels


Accordingly to a book I have they are now considered to have a negligible amount of tyramine.

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> I gave up coffee because it made anxious but I have now resumed it. It doesn't make me so anxious anymore and I need it for bowel movement, atleast in the morning. But I understand Nardil is worse in this regard.
> 
> /depressed77


That's weird since starting Parnate I've been having 3 bowel movements a day versus my usual 1 haha. I also have it right when I wake up without needing my usual morning coffee like before.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> That's weird since starting Parnate I've been having 3 bowel movements a day versus my usual 1 haha. I also have it right when I wake up without needing my usual morning coffee like before.


I don't know about parnate, but nardil gives you bad constipation, thought constipation was common with MAOIs. If so consider yourself lucky  I also think constipation is one of those symptoms that is suppose to go away with time, Thank God!


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

kehcorpz said:


> That's weird since starting Parnate I've been having 3 bowel movements a day versus my usual 1 haha. I also have it right when I wake up without needing my usual morning coffee like before.


I think Seroquel contributes to this a little. It's better now as I'm also trying to get back on my diet. It's been some junk food.

/depressed77


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

depressed77 said:


> Accordingly to a book I have they are now considered to have a negligible amount of tyramine.
> 
> /depressed77


Great! Its not a fruit i commonly have, just had it since i read it can help with constipation and the combination of figs, prunes and coconut oil worked wonders


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## puppy (Jun 27, 2012)

Docusate sodium stool softener helps with the constipation while it lasts.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Constipation is something that does not go away with time. Taking 1g of magnesium everyday makes it better, and it doesn't hurt to take a ****. A few tablets of dulcolax also does work wonders quite quickly if needed.


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## puppy (Jun 27, 2012)

It does go away with time. I had to give myself an enama after starting Nardil. Now, a year in, I eat a normal diet and take no supplements to relieve constipation. I have completely normal bowel movements.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

puppy said:


> It does go away with time. I had to give myself an enama after starting Nardil. Now, a year in, I eat a normal diet and take no supplements to relieve constipation. I have completely normal bowel movements.


I hope you're right. I'm on my 9th month of Nardil


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## puppy (Jun 27, 2012)

ChopSuey said:


> I hope you're right. I'm on my 9th month of Nardil


Interesting. Mine was gone by month 5... Maybe I'm just lucky, because every single one of my side effects has gone away (except lowered blood pressure, but that's fine since I used to have hypertension).


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

today was the 4th day with no constipation! this is after getting harsh constipations with not going passing a stool for 4 or 5 straight days. Maybe i'm lucky but try my combo of eating prunes, figs, one table spoon of coconut oil  I haven't taken the constipation medication for two days by the way.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> today was the 4th day with no constipation! this is after getting harsh constipations with not going passing a stool for 4 or 5 straight days. Maybe i'm lucky but try my combo of eating prunes, figs, one table spoon of coconut oil  I haven't taken the constipation medication for two days by the way.


I use coconut oil on my face, makes my skin so smooth! People go up to me and say "you're adorable, how many months old are you?"

Yah yah i know.

Good to hear though. Nothing like taking a morning dump, it has this relieving/awakening affect.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> I use coconut oil on my face, makes my skin so smooth! People go up to me and say "you're adorable, how many months old are you?"
> 
> Yah yah i know.
> 
> Good to hear though. Nothing like taking a morning dump, it has this relieving/awakening affect.


I don't use it on my face but i know you can. it has so many uses, increases your metabolism, cleanses your intestines, acts as an antibacterial and busts your immune system, helps constipation, just and amazing thing that many people don't know about.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Have finally started getting the hypotension and nardil has been working good so far. Today i had such a bad case of it that i got out of the car and started walking and blacked out and almost hit the pavement. I assumed the hypotension would started earlier as its just over 5 weeks of taking nardil. I haven't noticed much improvement in the last week, not sure if i should expect more results in a few weeks or this simply could be as good as therapeutic as it gets. The bowel movement is also much much better. The three side effects are water retention still, insomnia, sexual side effects.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Whoa that sucks glad you weren't driving. Try the salt idea. Check your bp often and if it goes low put some salt in a teaspoon and mix it with lots of water and it will do the trick.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> yeah man, i was actually walking to the lobby of a hotel and by the time i got there i almost fainted and the front desk people brought a chair for me and water and i told them i have a low blood sugar (can't tell em i'm on an maoi  )
> 
> i will maybe but some salty sour candies near by, just incase, but from what i hear its a good sign i have reached maoi inhibition. How are things with parnate? i follow your post and can tell a change in your attitude and satisfaction with it, so glad its helping you! if i was a better candidate i would have gone parnate but my anxiety is the main problem not depression.


Hehe don't want anyone thinking you're crazy 

Yah so far so good. I will be increasing it to 40mg on Sunday I believe. I think all the small improvements are a sign it's working and maybe if i sit on this same dosage it will fully kick in eventually but I might as well increase the dose since I can then do twice a day of 20mg instead of all at once.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> Hehe don't want anyone thinking you're crazy
> 
> Yah so far so good. I will be increasing it to 40mg on Sunday I believe. I think all the small improvements are a sign it's working and maybe if i sit on this same dosage it will fully kick in eventually but I might as well increase the dose since I can then do twice a day of 20mg instead of all at once.


haha, no more crazy than other people who don't take pills and think they are ok 

From what i read 40mg is a therapeutic dose if i'm correct and so far you've been handling the side effects easily. I think once you start within a week or two you should know if its working since it works much faster than nardil. I keep playing with the times i take my dosage by splitting and taking at onec and know what at least doesn't work well so thats a good idea. Goodluck and keep updating


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

What dose are you on, Brad, and how long have you been on it?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> What dose are you on, Brad, and how long have you been on it?


I'm on almost 40 days in nardil. Last 4 weeks at 60mg.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I'm on almost 40 days in nardil. Last 4 weeks at 60mg.


Glad that you're getting somewhere. Can I ask what's your Dx?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Glad that you're getting somewhere. Can I ask what's your Dx?


dx?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> dx?


You know the thing between your legs.....

That or diagnoses.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Choose wisely.


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Choose wisely.


lol, is that what you guys call it now?  at 60mg its not working, at 45mg i had no issues at all. I just been reading posts that it will get better after 2 months or so, if it doesn't then i might bring the dose down to 45mg and see if it works and can keep the therapeutic effects. If i can't maintain 45mg, might just drop to 45mg for a few days before sexy time!:boogie


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> lol, is that what you guys call it now?  at 60mg its not working, at 45mg i had no issues at all. I just been reading posts that it will get better after 2 months or so, if it doesn't then i might bring the dose down to 45mg and see if it works and can keep the therapeutic effects. If i can't maintain 45mg, might just drop to 45mg for a few days before sexy time!:boogie


I paint mine green and go up to girls asking "you girls wanna see kermit the frog?". But that's beside the point!

My diagnoses for example is Major Depressive Disorder/Anhedonia/General Anxiety Disorder


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

kehcorpz said:


> I paint mine green and go up to girls asking "you girls wanna see kermit the frog?". But that's beside the point!
> 
> My diagnoses for example is Major Depressive Disorder/Anhedonia/General Anxiety Disorder


i sure hope its bigger than kermit the frog but thats a discussion for another thread


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> lol, is that what you guys call it now?  at 60mg its not working, at 45mg i had no issues at all. I just been reading posts that it will get better after 2 months or so, if it doesn't then i might bring the dose down to 45mg and see if it works and can keep the therapeutic effects. If i can't maintain 45mg, might just drop to 45mg for a few days before sexy time!:boogie


Wut?

I thought you just said in an earlier post that 60mg was working? Why would you "just drop to 45mg" if you "can't maintain 45mg" instead of going back up to the 60mg that worked?



bradfairway said:


> i sure hope its bigger than kermit the frog


That's what she said.. ?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Wut?
> 
> I thought you just said in an earlier post that 60mg was working? Why would you "just drop to 45mg" if you "can't maintain 45mg" instead of going back up to the 60mg that worked?
> 
> That's what she said.. ?


60mg works great for anxiety, its the lowest i have had in years and i didn't have much issue with depression before. But the side effects are way greater in 60mg than 45mg. That 15mg extra has caused increased water retention, sexual side effects (no problem at 45mg), insomnia (non existent at 45mg), hypotension. So the only reason if i might drop the dose in two weeks or so is to see if i can maintain the therapeutic benefits and get rid of the side effects. This seemed to work for Mr. T and shyone, but its worth a try , if it doesn't then i have to stay at 60mg and hope the side effects lessen


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> 60mg works great for anxiety, its the lowest i have had in years and i didn't have much issue with depression before. But the side effects are way greater in 60mg than 45mg. That 15mg extra has caused increased water retention, sexual side effects (no problem at 45mg), insomnia (non existent at 45mg), hypotension. So the only reason if i might drop the dose in two weeks or so is to see if i can maintain the therapeutic benefits and get rid of the side effects. This seemed to work for Mr. T and shyone, but its worth a try , if it doesn't then i have to stay at 60mg and hope the side effects lessen


I myself am dropping down from 60mg to 30mg for a while to see how I do, as some people have had luck with this, been on Nardil 8 and a half weeks and I enxperienced the initial hypomania and now I have totally less anxiety but it's to the point where I basically am a zombie so I really think a dose drop is gonna do me good


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

hworth said:


> I myself am dropping down from 60mg to 30mg for a while to see how I do, as some people have had luck with this, been on Nardil 8 and a half weeks and I enxperienced the initial hypomania and now I have totally less anxiety but it's to the point where I basically am a zombie so I really think a dose drop is gonna do me good


you didn't try to see how a drop from 60mg to 45mg would be?


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

bradfairway said:


> you didn't try to see how a drop from 60mg to 45mg would be?


Nope lol but I've only been on the 30mg for literally one day.. you think that would be a better idea? What's the best way to split dosage on 45mg to avoid lethargy/tiredness?

Besides, I heard when you drop from being on a large dose for a long time it ends up acting more like a higher dose than it really is, like 30mg feels more like somewhere inbetween 30 and 45, etc.. could be wrong tho. I'm just tired of being tired and brain dead on Nardil and having it worsen my depression/anxiety because of it so I need a dose that's activating or I'll probably just switch to Parnate next week. At this point I pretty much think you have to be EXTREMELY socially anxious to think this drug is therapeutic (not trying to step on anyone's toes..! I'm sure Nardil is a godsend for some) or have your depression stem from your anxiety, otherwise for depression not caused by your anxieties themselves, from my own personal experience this med doesn't do much. And I don't think it's me "not waiting long enough" either!


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

hworth said:


> Nope lol but I've only been on the 30mg for literally one day.. you think that would be a better idea? What's the best way to split dosage on 45mg to avoid lethargy/tiredness?
> 
> Besides, I heard when you drop from being on a large dose for a long time it ends up acting more like a higher dose than it really is, like 30mg feels more like somewhere inbetween 30 and 45, etc.. could be wrong tho. I'm just tired of being tired and brain dead on Nardil and having it worsen my depression/anxiety because of it so I need a dose that's activating or I'll probably just switch to Parnate next week. At this point I pretty much think you have to be EXTREMELY socially anxious to think this drug is therapeutic (not trying to step on anyone's toes..! I'm sure Nardil is a godsend for some) or have your depression stem from your anxiety, otherwise for depression not caused by your anxieties themselves, from my own personal experience this med doesn't do much. And I don't think it's me "not waiting long enough" either!


i see your point, but the mental tiredness does get better, at over 5 weeks i see a bit of improvement and that can take another month or so to get the best effects. 30mg is not known to be therapeutic unless for those who have been on the pill from years from what i understand and at least on the boards i find people anywhere from 45mg to over a 100mg. If you are planning to come off i totally understand, but i would just give it one week at 45mg to see what happens. I have been testing different methods, splitting doses, taking it all at once and they all seem to work. For now im taking it all at the same time and there is no issue or difference. About the late 4th week or 5th week at 60mg it started hitting me and working , im planning to stay on this dose for a bit longer before i try to see if i can maintain the therapeutic at 45mg, if not i have to go back to 60mg cause its working. Best of luck, but since you have already invested time on it, i would just try 45mg for a full week to see if there is improvement and leave no doubt behind if you switch. cheers


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Today marks the end of 6 week trial of nardil. First two weeks at 45mg and 4 weeks of 60mg.

So far i'm very pleased with the results. Social anxiety and panic attacks down 90%! depression which wasn't a main concern has improved by 30%.

I have been taking all my dosage now (4 pills) first thing in the morning and seems its helping me a bit with the insomnia. 

I have gained 6lbs in 6 weeks but it has got to be water weight as im eating cleaner than ever before. Unfortunately all the weight gain is around my stomach and i used to have a very flat stomach at 170lbs. 

The good news is my appetite and carbs and sweets craving is actually lower than i started nardil! The initial week or two my sweets and carb craving tripled i'd say 

The side effects so far are: Edema ( 6 lbs), some hypotension and tiredness in the afternoons. Insomnia is a little better but not where i like it to be so i do take sleeping pills for now. Constipation is better but not back to normal. No more urinary retention. The worst side effect is I have sex drive but i can hardly get a boner, hopefully this goes away.

I started feeling the therapeutic effects around week 4 and its gotten better in the last two weeks. I will wait two more weeks before i try to lower the dose to 45mg to see if i can lessen the side effects and hopefully keep that as a maintenance dose. If the anxiety comes back and i can't tolerate it at least i know 60mg works so worth a try. 

goodluck to all you who are on maois, they are very tricky but can definitely work


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I started feeling the therapeutic effects around week 4 and its gotten better in the last two weeks. I will wait two more weeks before i try to lower the dose to 45mg to see if i can lessen the side effects and hopefully keep that as a maintenance dose. If the anxiety comes back and i can't tolerate it at least i know 60mg works so worth a try.


So, you we're on 60mg for 2 weeks with absolutely NO therapeutic effects before you felt improvement?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> So, you we're on 60mg for 2 weeks with absolutely NO therapeutic effects before you felt improvement?


i was on 45mg the first two weeks, last 4 weeks been only on 60mg. so yeah, two weeks into 60mg i started feeling it slowly and i thought it was placebo but finding myself in tough situations and handling it with ease both at work and personal i knew its not placebo. One of my friends who is not on this site just took 45mg from start and didn't raise and by week 6 he started feeling it and he is doing fine now, i think he just passed the 3 month mark.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay, so, if I restart back at 60mg, how much time would you suggest I give it before moving up to try 75mg? 2 weeks till I feel something, like you did, or 6 weeks like your friend did?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Okay, so, if I restart back at 60mg, how much time would you suggest I give it before moving up to try 75mg? 2 weeks till I feel something, like you did, or 6 weeks like your friend did?


its very individual but why move to 75mg? how long did u stay on 60mg in the past? i would stay on 60mg for 3 weeks to get the full mao inhibition and it can take even longer. That might be all u need


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

okay, waiting that long will kill me for sure, but I'll try. Longest I stayed on it was 2 weeks straight.

1 more question: If I go down from 120mg down to 60mg, I might be too tolerant for it (because I was on a MUCH higher dose), do you think I should stay on a dose lower than 60mg (0mg-30mg) for some time first before going back down to 60mg?

edit: sorry. you probably wouldn't know this. I don't know why I thought you would. I'll just go down to 30mg for a week, then 45 for 2 weeks then stay at 60mg.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay, well, ignoring that last post:

What we're your first 4 weeks (2 weeks on 45mg, 2 weeks on 60mg) like in terms of mood improvement?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

i personally believe the trick is not to start from a big dose, but to give your brain a chance to slowly adapt. This is from reading Mr.Ts advice and shy-ones, and so far so good. Not sure what dose you started and i understand there is the temptation to get well as soon as possible, but if its too high a dose it can back fire and i know this just from reading other peoples journals and some had to go back down to start to regain the benefits.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Is the therapeutic effect you get from Nardil consistent, or does it sometimes disappear for some hours or days?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> some had to go back down to start to regain the benefits.


What do you mean by this? They went back down to 0mg for some time and restart the ENTIRE process?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Is the therapeutic effect you get from Nardil consistent, or does it sometimes disappear for some hours or days?


its consistent! ofcourse you cannot be happy and anxious free every single hour of everyday just due to what life deals you but i 90-95% consistency on a daily base i'd say is pretty damn good


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> What do you mean by this? goo back down to 0mg for some time and restart the ENTIRE process?


i'm not suggesting that, in fact i'm not sure your current dose and how long has it been since you increased to your current dose. My suggestion is that if you are on anything higher than 60mg to drop down to 60mg and stay there for 2-3 weeks. If you are already on a dose of 45mg or less to move it 60mg again for 2-3 weeks. If you like to share more on where you started and how often and what dosage you changed i might be able to tell you where the issue is, but thats just a guess as its a very tricky drug. Feel free to share in a few sentences if you like


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> i'm not suggesting that, in fact i'm not sure your current dose and how long has it been since you increased to your current dose. My suggestion is that if you are on anything higher than 60mg to drop down to 60mg and stay there for 2-3 weeks. If you are already on a dose of 45mg or less to move it 60mg again for 2-3 weeks. If you like to share more on where you started and how often and what dosage you changed i might be able to tell you where the issue is, but thats just a guess as its a very tricky drug. Feel free to share in a few sentences if you like


Thanks. I'm glad I can trial 60mg again actually, I've just been feeling so directionless, and at least makes some sense.

I've been on 120mg for slightly more than 1 week, do you think that if I went down to 60mg, there might be some leftover tolerance build up from when I took 120mg?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Thanks. I'm glad I can trial 60mg again actually, I've just been feeling so directionless, and at least makes some sense.
> 
> I've been on 120mg for slightly more than 1 week, do you think that if I went down to 60mg, there might be some leftover tolerance build up from when I took 120mg?


I once read that therapeutic effect between 75 and 90 is very very marginal, not sure where but was a paper. So yeah i think 120mg is way way too much and i would drop to 60mg. I think the goal is to have anywhere from 60-80% inhibition as its impossible to get 100% inhibition. It will take a week perhaps before your mao inhibition levels at 60mg or close to it. But I'm guessing you side effects will drop down fast after the first few days and i haven't followed all your posts. 60mg seems like a magic number as most people are on 45mg-75mg as the median number. I think one reason people give up on nardil is due to side effects and at that high dose of 90+ (few people benefit on these doses) you are pretty much guaranteed you will have alot. I personally think 15mg increases makes a huge difference when it comes to nardil, even though it doesn't seem like much but i think you can easily be at ease at 60mg and increasing to 75mg can ruin the whole thing. Its not only the gaba that increases but 3 other hormones so one can expect side effects. Now my knowledge is based on my personal experience and reading tones of journals last few months, but if you are gonna quit you might as well give 60mg a try and expect the first week at least to be a bit rough.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> I once read that therapeutic effect between 75 and 90 is very very marginal, not sure where but was a paper. So yeah i think 120mg is way way too much and i would drop to 60mg. I think the goal is to have anywhere from 60-80% inhibition as its impossible to get 100% inhibition. It will take a week perhaps before your mao inhibition levels at 60mg or close to it. But I'm guessing you side effects will drop down fast after the first few days and i haven't followed all your posts. 60mg seems like a magic number as most people are on 45mg-75mg as the median number. I think one reason people give up on nardil is due to side effects and at that high dose of 90+ (few people benefit on these doses) you are pretty much guaranteed you will have alot. I personally think 15mg increases makes a huge difference when it comes to nardil, even though it doesn't seem like much but i think you can easily be at ease at 60mg and increasing to 75mg can ruin the whole thing. Its not only the gaba that increases but 3 other hormones so one can expect side effects. Now my knowledge is based on my personal experience and reading tones of journals last few months, but if you are gonna quit you might as well give 60mg a try and expect the first week at least to be a bit rough.


Sure, 60mg makes sense. I'll bite.

I would just like to know how I should get there.

Option 1: Go down from 120mg to 60mg and risk having a tolerance to 60mg (not sure if this is possible).

Option 2: Restart with a 3rd, and hopefully final Nardil trial.

What do you suggest, fairway?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Sure, 60mg makes sense. I'll bite.
> 
> I would just like to know how I should get there.
> 
> ...


if you are on 120mg right now i suggest to drop to 90mg and stay there for 3 days and then drop to 60mg and stay there. This should help a bit with a big bounce in your hormones although there will be some rebound. Let me know how it goes and best of luck!


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> if you are on 120mg right now i suggest to drop to 90mg and stay there for 3 days and then drop to 60mg and stay there. This should help a bit with a big bounce in your hormones although there will be some rebound. Let me know how it goes and best of luck!


And I won't have any tolerance to 60mg if I do this?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> And I won't have any tolerance to 60mg if I do this?


if you were on nardil for a year or more and had to maintain 120mg i would say yes and you needed 120mg. But you just started and tolerance is not an issue and maoi's rarely have any tolerance issues, just finding the right dose. I doubt you will have worst side effect on 60mg than 120mg and just give it a few weeks without changing dose


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay, thanks again. BTW, do you take it on an empty stomach, or split the dose or anything?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Okay, thanks again. BTW, do you take it on an empty stomach, or split the dose or anything?


your welcome and i hope this works for you and i'm pretty sure you get better results and you just need to be patient with nardil, can't rush it like some other meds. i take it on an empty stomach at 6am when i wake up , but don't think it matters if you split or have it on a full stomach. Its a personal preference thing and i noticed if i take mine first thing in the morning my insomnia is a bit improved but some people find that it helps them sleep so totally up to you as long as you take the 60mg in a day.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks bradfairway. If this works, and I get my life back, I will forever be in your debt


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Thanks bradfairway. If this works, and I get my life back, I will forever be in your debt


i sure hope it works for you buddy, just remember the first week might be the toughest. If it works (hopefully it will) i will have two shots to celebrate your new life! :drunk


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Oh, and I'm curious.

If going up to 75mg and 90mg has little benefit over 60mg, then why is 90mg considered the maximum dose and not 60mg?

Dose it have any qualities you can't get from 60mg?


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Oh, and I'm curious.
> 
> If going up to 75mg and 90mg has little benefit over 60mg, then why is 90mg considered the maximum dose and not 60mg?
> 
> Dose it have any qualities you can't get from 60mg?


there are people who get the therapeutic effect 45mg (shy-one was an example and some other user) anything over that actually made them feel worse. Here the more doesn't mean better, just as if i jump to 90mg i know i will get super anxious and side effects will kill me. You actually want to be on a lower dose long term in terms of side effects, so 60mg is probably where you want to start since you have been on nardil a while.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> there are people who get the therapeutic effect 45mg (shy-one was an example and some other user) anything over that actually made them feel worse. Here the more doesn't mean better, just as if i jump to 90mg i know i will get super anxious and side effects will kill me. You actually want to be on a lower dose long term in terms of side effects, so 60mg is probably where you want to start since you have been on nardil a while.


Do you think it's possible for 60mg to never work for somebody, but not 90mg? (just an example)


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Do you think it's possible for 60mg to never work for somebody, but not 90mg? (just an example)


anything is possible. You are just giving it a 3 week trial which is nothing in the whole picture. I would stop worrying too much and just try since the more you think about it the more bothersome it is. Most folks here do it by trial and error and given you situation i would stick to what i suggested but its up to you to make that call

also part of the issue here is you usually start at a lower dose and pump it up after a few weeks if no results, but you moved to a very high dose fast so its better to start at 60mg and if after 3 weeks no improvement at all then we can think of next move


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay, how's about this:

90mg for 4 days

60mg for 4 days

30mg for 2 weeks (in case I have been desensitized from 60mg from taking 120mg)

45mg for 2 weeks

60mg for 1 month - then decide whether or not I should move to 75mg


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## Burnaby (Feb 13, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Okay, how's about this:
> 
> 90mg for 4 days
> 
> ...


i would just do the 90 mg for 4 days and keep to 60mg for two weeks, if the side effects are still alot then go to 45mg and stay there for another two weeks since you already have in you body for a while.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Gotta admit, I'm insanely jealous Nardil turned out to be such a good fit for you bradfairway >:/ I guess miss phenelzine never really loved me.. hopefully you'll win her heart too Jawi lol


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

OKAY OKAY OKAY!

hbout... 60mg for 1 month, THEN seeing if I should stick to it or not? Like you said, I've been on it for a long time. If I don't respond to 60mg after an entire month, then it must be the wrong dose, right?


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## depressed77 (Dec 9, 2010)

bradfairway said:


> Last night I ordered some grilled chicken from a known restaurant and after about 1.5 hours of eating it i noticed my pressure is going up (felt it in my chest). It just kept climbing up and up and up until it reached 195/110! This ofcourse freaked me out but i did not feel any headaches or pain, and kept taking my blood pressure every 15 minutes until about two hours after it dropped. I guess i got lucky as there was no pain but very scary indeed.:afr


Very unpleasant! Any idea what was the offending ingredient?

/depressed77


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

depressed77 said:


> Very unpleasant! Any idea what was the offending ingredient?
> 
> /depressed77


I'm guessing it's the marinade they used. Some sort of ginger soy combo or marmite. Those things will kill a man on MAOIs hehe.

@brad
Lucky you made it through. You were in the stroke/heart attack zone! eek!


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

bradfairway said:


> no idea as i had their food last week and no problems, so maybe the chicken wasn't fresh or something, its a popular restaurant with lots of customer so they don't come across as a bad resturant.


That's weird because chicken usually when it's not so fresh will taste really weird. And man i didn't think that much tyramine would accumulate because of the freshness hehe. Usually it's the sauces that get you. BBQ sauces are popular for having the soy/marmite ingredients. It could also be other tyramine sources accumulated throughout the day and that stuff just put you over some limit. Who knows just brain storming.


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