# SAD and Jury duty



## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

So should people with a serious case of SAD be forced to do jury duty by threat of fine or imprisonment? 

Something to think about... what if some someone came up with an idea that if it is known that a terrorist has a severe case of claustrophobia for example and they decide to place him or her in say a coffin or say a shrinking coffin to make them feel like it is closing in on them to make them talk. Wouldn't that be something like water boarding? Look at the uproar over water boarding and these are terrorists not even US citizens yet law abiding US citizens with social phobia are forced to face some of their worst fears by having to sit in the witness box and be asked all kinds of questions in front of an audience or if they don't show up they may have to face a judge in a courtroom setting which is also not a good option for them. Isn't there something wrong with this? If we used a convicted criminal's phobia against them to punish them would that not be considered cruel and unusual?


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

Jury duty isn't a punishment. If anything, it's exposure therapy. Every time someone confronts a fear, it makes them a stronger person.

Have a nice day,
Kelly


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Kelly said:


> Jury duty isn't a punishment. If anything, it's exposure therapy. Every time someone confronts a fear, it makes them a stronger person.
> 
> Have a nice day,
> Kelly


Trained therapists say confronting of fears should only be done in a systematic hierarchal manner. What if public speaking is way up on your hierarchal scale? I can also quote an expert on SAD that forcing yourself into situation you are not ready for can set you back. And what about the water boarding? I guess you would agree there's nothing wrong with that since terrorists get to confront their fears of drowning and that only makes them better persons.


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## CoconutHolder (Oct 13, 2007)

I haven't gotten a letter for jury duty in years. But I have gotten one when my SA was at its worst. I just checked off to ask to be exempt and my reasoning was because of my anxiety disorder. I was excused no problem. However if I got one now I'd go, I'm not nearly as bad as I used to be.


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## Becky (Nov 5, 2003)

The last thing I ever want is to be called for jury duty. The thought of it scares me to death. :afr


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

sprinter said:


> Trained therapists say confronting of fears should only be done in a systematic hierarchal manner. What if public speaking is way up on your hierarchal scale? I can also quote an expert on SAD that forcing yourself into situation you are not ready for can set you back. And what about the water boarding? I guess you would agree there's nothing wrong with that since terrorists get to confront their fears of drowning and that only makes them better persons.


Jury duty is hardly ever a surprise. You get the notice in the mail weeks in advance. You have a ton of time to prepare yourself for it. If you aren't, you have plenty of time to get out of it. If your therapist says that it will do more harm than good, then you can get out of it easily with a medical notice.

Comparing an everyday act that people without anxiety disorders have no problems with CANNOT in any way be compared to water boarding or any other real act of torture. To even suggest that they are in any way similar to torture, because people with SAD have extenuating circumstances that make the activity more difficult than it normally would be, is ridiculous and I cannot take such statements seriously. :roll

Have a nice day,
Kelly


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Kelly said:


> sprinter said:
> 
> 
> > Trained therapists say confronting of fears should only be done in a systematic hierarchal manner. What if public speaking is way up on your hierarchal scale? I can also quote an expert on SAD that forcing yourself into situation you are not ready for can set you back. And what about the water boarding? I guess you would agree there's nothing wrong with that since terrorists get to confront their fears of drowning and that only makes them better persons.
> ...


I think you are failing to realize that to some people with severe SAD the whole judy duty thing is torture. That includes the anticipatory anxiety that goes along with it. It's not always easy to get out of it either some counties are rather draconian about it. As for the water boarding yeah no analogy is perfect, actually I wasn't even comparing water boarding to jury duty but comparing the outrage over it compared to some counties total lack of empathy to people with SAD.



> Every time someone confronts a fear, it makes them a stronger person.


 I cannot take such statements seriously. You have proof for that? :roll


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

sprinter said:


> I think you are failing to realize that to some people with severe SAD the whole judy duty thing is torture. That includes the anticipatory anxiety that goes along with it. It's not always easy to get out of it either some counties are rather draconian about it. As for the water boarding yeah no analogy is perfect. But apparently the person enduring the water boarding is not in any real danger and I just saw a journalist voluntarily endure water boarding so maybe it's not so bad.


I think everyone on this board has to deal with situations that give them anticipatory anxiety on a fairly frequent basis. Why is the anticipatory anxiety associated with jury duty something special? What I'm getting at here is: People with SAD deal with anxiety on a regular basis. It's a fact of life - of our lives. Getting a jury duty summons in the mail will trigger nothing more than the anxiety we should all be accustomed to experiencing by now. (And when I say "accustomed" I don't mean that we are okay with it. I just mean that we're used to it being there.) If someone's anxiety is so severe that even getting the letter in the mail is so anxiety provoking that it can be compared with torture procedures that should be banned by international law, then I really, really hope that they are doing *something* in their lives that can help them better deal with situations like this.



> I cannot take such statements seriously. You have proof for that? :roll


One "proof" is called exposure therapy.

Another is called "living every day." Everytime someone has to do something problematic and they actually go through and do it and it didn't kill them - would you say doing it made them a weaker person? Would you say they stayed neutral and accomplished nothing? Or would you say that they survived the situation and are better off in some way because of it? For example, if you were forced into an anxiety provoking situation that you could not get out of, got through it and survived - just because you didn't enjoy it doesn't mean that you failed. People do ****ty things they don't enjoy everyday. And yes, maybe the next time you are forced into the situation, the anxiety will still be there, but at least you'll know going in that you can get through it.

For the record: I had jury duty once. It is in no way as bad as you describe. There was no sitting in the witness chair. Mostly, it was just boring. I was wholly ignored. They picked a first batch of 16 people or so and had them sit in the jury's seats. Then the second batch of people (my batch) had to sit in the first row of seats in the courtroom. The third batch of people got to sit wherever and got sent home shortly after that. They asked the first group of people several really easy questions about their lives (What's your name? What's your job? etc.) It was an work-related injury case, so they wanted to make sure no one was associated with the company being sued. They also really focused in on a nurse - I guess since she would know about injuries. I only got asked one question, which I can't remember. I just remember that my answer was "yes" and that's all I had to say all day. They replaced a few of the people in the first group with people from the beginning of the second group. Since I was at the end of the second group, I never got chosen. I got sent home and that was that.

I don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate here. I'm not saying a person with SAD should have no problem with this. I was certainly nervous, because I didn't know what to expect. *What I'm saying is that people should NOT use their SAD as an excuse to get out of stuff when they could use the "stuff" as a means to challenge their anxiety* After all, what's the alternative? Sitting at home and damning your anxiety and wishing you could be "normal?"

Have a nice day,
Kelly


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

I got out of jury duty because of my insomnia. If you have any kind of problem that would hurt your ability to concentrate, you could get out of it.


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Wow you wrote such a long post you finished it after I edited my post. :b For the record it was not my intention to compare torture techniques to SAD and jury duty but just that the contrast to some counties not taking SAD seriously at all with regards to the suffering it can cause to people with SAD versus the outrage over water boarding or if anyone were forced to endure their worst phobia like forcing someone with severe claustrophobia into a small box. Anyone with any decency would see that as cruel. 

I am aware that maybe most of the time the jurors don't have to sit in the witness box which for me personally would make a big difference in the anxiety but I think maybe with criminal trials the potential jurors have to sit in the witness box and you don't know whether it will be for a civil or criminal trial beforehand.


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## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

I'm sure there's a warrant out for my arrest because I've ignored 2 different notices for jury duty. There is no way I could go :afr


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## coldmorning (Jul 4, 2007)

If the SA is severe, I think it's a very valid excuse to get out of it.


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## Disintegrate (Jun 28, 2006)

> So should people with a serious case of SAD be forced to do jury duty by threat of fine or imprisonment?


I'm not sure. I had jury duty 3 different times...only served on one complete case. This was before I ever knew what was wrong with me. I do know that I was never stronger for the experience.


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## QuietTexan (Nov 15, 2005)

I think if someone's social anxiety is severe enough, it might be a disservice to the judicial process to force that person to sit on a jury. I would feel guilty if my social anxiety prevented me from verbally participating in the jury deliberations, because it could impact the outcome of the case.


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## Summa (May 9, 2005)

If you have severe social anxiety, you can probably get an exemption with a sworn statement from a medical professional.

With that said, I had jury duty for the first time a couple months ago. I was extremely anxious about it beforehand, but it didn't turn out that bad. The vast majority of the time is boring, because you are just sitting and waiting. I was among a group of 36 prospective jurors for a murder trial. The amount of time that the focus was on me answering questions was probably about 30 seconds. Fortunately, I was not selected. It wasn't an enjoyable experience, but I made it through.

One important distinction is whether the summons is petit or grand jury service. Grand juries convene over a period of months, and I imagine it could be much more challenging to get through with severe SA.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

With me, it was weird.
When I saw other people just as uncomfortable as me, I realized that I wasn't alone and then I just burst out and had people laughing (with me!). We had a good time. When the people in our case settled before the trial began, I heard people saw they were disappointed that we didn't get to meet anymore. :lol.

Even though it's a pain, it's quite a learning experience.


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## KimberlyK (Nov 11, 2004)

Kelly said:


> *What I'm saying is that people should NOT use their SAD as an excuse to get out of stuff when they could use the "stuff" as a means to challenge their anxiety* After all, what's the alternative? Sitting at home and damning your anxiety and wishing you could be "normal?"


Well every one of us is different. I forced myself for many years to challenge my anxiety, it made me suicidal and depressed and it did nothing to alleviate my anxiety.


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## Kelly (Dec 12, 2003)

KimberlyK said:


> Kelly said:
> 
> 
> > *What I'm saying is that people should NOT use their SAD as an excuse to get out of stuff when they could use the "stuff" as a means to challenge their anxiety* After all, what's the alternative? Sitting at home and damning your anxiety and wishing you could be "normal?"
> ...


You should be proud that you tried and did your best. :yes

Have a nice day,
Kelly


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

From http://www.social-anxiety-network.com/CCBT.html



> Most therapists think of "behavioral therapy" as "exposure" to real-life anxiety-producing situations. Anyone familiar with social anxiety disorder knows that exposures do not work, they only cause damage, and they keep the person locked in the vicious cycle of anxiety, irritation, frustration, anger, and depression. Why am I saying this? At the worst stages of my own social anxiety, I was constantly "exposed" to anxiety-producing situations. There were many situations I could not avoid. I had no choice. I had to "expose" myself to these anxiety-producing situations even though I did not want to do so.
> 
> Equally annoying and discouraging to people with social anxiety is the oft-mentioned "face your fears" and you will become anxiety-free. Several books on the market have this terminology in their title and it is not only a wrong course of action to take with social anxiety, it is an action that leads to doubt, depression, questioning, and even more anxiety. Some of the worst advice given to people with social anxiety is to "buck up and face your fears". This will not work. It will backfire and it damages lives.
> 
> The term "systematic desensitization" is also used as a behavioral technique for social anxiety. This is actually a strategy that will work, given that the therapist knows how to adequately and to appropriately implement it. The "systematic" part of systematic desensitization is highly important. In behavioral therapy for social anxiety, the progress must be systematic, step-by-step, hierarchical, and repetitious. If it moves too fast, or if it is too much, this therapy will backfire. It is very important that any process of desensitization be gradual and systematic.


Intensive exposure or flooding may sometimes work for simple phobia or panic disorder, it doesn't work for a complex phobia like SAD. If it does work then the person never had SAD in the first place and was only suffering from some type of shyness.


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## Maslow (Dec 24, 2003)

Exposure works in some situations like public speaking anxiety, which is a form of social anxiety. I never got comfortable working in close confines with other people, though. I did it for over 15 years and never got any better.


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## alanh (Jan 2, 2008)

So far, I've been able to indicate my SA as a reason to be exempt from jury duty and haven't had any problems doing so. However, due to my current line of medications I've been less anxious than I've been in years. So, if I were to receive another jury duty notice, I'd most likely attend, or at the very least entertain the idea of attending.


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## alanh (Jan 2, 2008)

Basically, if you feel you can handle jury duty without having a severe panic/anxiety attack, you should do it. As Kelly said, it could be beneficial as a form of 'Exposure Therapy', so long as you're not having panic attacks left & right.


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## ghostgurl (Sep 20, 2004)

Sure, I've only got called for jury duty once and was anxious the whole time. I even got to the part where they called people up to the box and started selecting people. They didn't select me, but I'm sure if they did they would excuse me as soon as I started talking because then it would be obvious I wouldn't be any help. Probably if your SA is visible enough, it would be enough to be excused. I feel like I'm paying a price by registering to vote. :afr


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## FillyPhile (Nov 28, 2007)

I served as the foreman of a grand jury for three weeks. Thank God for Inderal and Xanax.

I learned a valuable lesson: never wear a suit and tie when you're called for jury duty. They elect you foreman because they assume you have sense.


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