# Never married no children



## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

*..*

.


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## DitzyDreamer (Jun 10, 2008)

Marriage and kids are overrated. Don't be hard on yourself.

And if kids are what you really desire, you can adopt or opt for artificial insemination. 

But really, don't look at it as a "punishment from God" or a "cruel joke."


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

I read some study that said single people on average are happier than married w/kids. 

Do you truely regret not having hubby/kids or do you dislike being surrounded by everyone that has hubby/kids. Like, would you still feel this way if you were surrounded exclusively by single folks?


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## Cleary (Nov 10, 2007)

lol I'm the complete opposite. I would consider having a husband and kids a 'punishment from god' instead.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

I'm in the middle of these extremes. I wasn't cut out to be married, at least not as a young man. I love being a parent, although it pushes me up to and beyond my social comfort most days. I sometimes indulge myself and envy people my age who've only lived for themselves. I wouldn't change anything, but I still wonder.


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## Freak (Jul 18, 2009)

Being married might cause stress but isnt it our destiny?


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## facade (Oct 1, 2009)

NicoShy said:


> Is this some cruel joke or punishment from God? Why deprive me of this when all around me are families. I don't get it. No wonder there is nothing to talk about with most my age. So alone.


It can work both ways ...you can be married and still feel very alone.


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## DitzyDreamer (Jun 10, 2008)

VanDamMan said:


> I read some study that said single people on average are happier than married w/kids.
> 
> Do you truely regret not having hubby/kids or do you dislike being surrounded by everyone that has hubby/kids. Like, would you still feel this way if you were surrounded exclusively by single folks?


I also heard the single women live longer than married women, and married men live longer than single men. Or so I've been told.

Hmm...


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Freak said:


> Being married might cause stress but isnt it our destiny?


This is a horrible way to live. You should decide what you want from life and not subscribe to some predetermined notion of what life is.

But having SA, easier said than done.


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## copper (Nov 10, 2003)

VanDamMan said:


> I read some study that said single people on average are happier than married w/kids.


They might be right. I talk to all the married guys at work and they tell me about how much debt they are in do to paying for the kids education, buying the wife a SUV, etc. Also, they complain about their in laws constantly. Many of them envy me that I remained single.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Sounds like people are never happy no matter what they have. They cry when they're single and they cry when they're married. This is not pointed at anyone here btw. Just an observation 

My sister used to say she would love to get married to her boyfriend (he's her husband now) and have kids. Now that she is married with kids she complains about how tough it is with kids is and how little free time she has, and she complains about the husband too :lol :roll


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## moxosis (Aug 26, 2009)

NicoShy said:


> Is this some cruel joke or punishment from God? Why deprive me of this when all around me are families. I don't get it. No wonder there is nothing to talk about with most my age. So alone.


I know how it feels, even when I don't want to have kids and be married, I still get that feeling when everybody around is having big Christmas family gathering, and I feel bad, but l if I go to one of them I can't stand the screaming of kids and the noise families make, so I go back to the feeling of not wanting a family of my own.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Logan X said:


> Sounds like people are never happy no matter what they have. They cry when they're single and they cry when they're married. This is not pointed at anyone here btw. Just an observation
> 
> My sister used to say she would love to get married to her boyfriend (he's her husband now) and have kids. Now that she is married with kids she complains about how tough it is with kids is and how little free time she has, and she complains about the husband too :lol :roll


You are right. People are never satisfied. I tend to think of it like who is least miserable.


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## dreamj (Nov 7, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> This is a horrible way to live. You should decide what you want from life and not subscribe to some predetermined notion of what life is.
> 
> But having SA, easier said than done.


Agrees with this.

Still, I probably think about not having a family on a daily basis. I feel the exact same way and think it's a cruel joke, b/c I know exactly how to be a good husband and father. It feels like the older you get, the more you have to let things go.


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> I read some study that said single people on average are happier than married w/kids.
> 
> Do you truely regret not having hubby/kids or do you dislike being surrounded by everyone that has hubby/kids. Like, would you still feel this way if you were surrounded exclusively by single folks?


I want my own seed to carry on and love. I want to be a mother. I dont know how I would feel if everyone where single, all I know is what I have lived and it hurts daily.


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

Also its different for women who actually can bear the children. There is an age where it isnt possible and it's alienating in a society such as this. Its very hard to relate to others and not be treated by the majority as some freak. And I thought this was a forum for older folks (referring to the 21 yr old). No disrespect intended just pointing it out.


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

Putting the shoe on the other foot. Do you men feel emasculated if you can't be a breadwinner or reach a status of being able to maintain a household. Just wonder if you get the same pressures.


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## dreamj (Nov 7, 2009)

Its just as alienating being "older" and a male. Typically at work, I feel weird not being married at my age. Divorced, fine. "Girlfriend," maybe acceptable if you're serious or close to engagement. None, well, I feel just strange...and its not even societal pressure, its just lonely and depressing not to be in a relationship and looking at others who are marginally happy. Having a sibling that's 10 years younger than me, I know how it feels to have kids and raise them the right way.

It doesn't matter for me about the breadwinner part. Well, if she's earning more money, fine. But if I'm not working and she is it doesn't feel right. If it were me only working though I'd feel the same. It's the 21st century after all..


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

dreamj said:


> Its just as alienating being "older" and a male. Typically at work, I feel weird not being married at my age. Divorced, fine. "Girlfriend," maybe acceptable if you're serious or close to engagement. None, well, I feel just strange...and its not even societal pressure, its just lonely and depressing not to be in a relationship and looking at others who are marginally happy. Having a sibling that's 10 years younger than me, I know how it feels to have kids and raise them the right way.
> 
> It doesn't matter for me about the breadwinner part. Well, if she's earning more money, fine. But if I'm not working and she is it doesn't feel right. If it were me only working though I'd feel the same. It's the 21st century after all..


Yup. A day doesn't go by that don't I hear these people talk about their babies or grown children or child photos all over the damn desk. sick to no end. I know I must move on but at the moment it bothers me. Night.


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## Cleary (Nov 10, 2007)

NicoShy said:


> Also its different for women who actually can bear the children. There is an age where it isnt possible and it's alienating in a society such as this. Its very hard to relate to others and not be treated by the majority as some freak. And I thought this was a forum for older folks (referring to the 21 yr old). No disrespect intended just pointing it out.


I didn't know I was in the 'crickets' section until after I left that comment (at the time I was just replying to various topics on the New Posts page)

I've seen plenty of women my age (and younger) who are starting their own families and talk non-stop about their kids. and like you I can't relate to them and have very little in common with them since my life doesn't revolve around a baby.

But unlike you, -when it comes to child raising- I don't want to relate to them. Ever. 
I know you said you want to experience motherhood and I'm sure that's true. but in some of your posts it also sounds like you want to conform just for the sake of conformity - so you're not seen as 'some freak' by your peers.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

NicoShy said:


> Putting the shoe on the other foot. Do you men feel emasculated if you can't be a breadwinner or reach a status of being able to maintain a household. Just wonder if you get the same pressures.


There is definately pressure to be "successful" for a guy.

I could deal with the woman being the breadwinner. However I would feel like I need to contribute in some unique way that the family would benefit from.


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## dreamj (Nov 7, 2009)

Cleary said:


> I know you said you want to experience motherhood and I'm sure that's true. but in some of your posts it also sounds like you want to conform just for the sake of conformity - so you're not seen as 'some freak' by your peers.


I can't have kids because of a certain physical illness I've got...knowing u can't have children is painful, much more overwhelmingly than trying to fit into a peer group. But it does help to live vicariously or directly with those who have kids and be part of their family...experience the feeling through their eyes or being a part of their life.


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## TRENNER (Sep 21, 2009)

TO ALL-

"It ain't over till it's over" as Yogi Berra said. Plenty of people nowdays marry at late ages. I was 44 and my wife 43 when we got married and it is our first marriage. I know a man who got married for the first time at age 64. I know a woman who got married for the first time at age 59.

While it is admittedly difficult for a woman to have a child after 40 by natural means, there has been a lot of innovation with fertility treatments. So, there remains hope!!!

TRENNER


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

dreamj said:


> I can't have kids because of a certain physical illness I've got...knowing u can't have children is painful, much more overwhelmingly than trying to fit into a peer group. But it does help to live vicariously or directly with those who have kids and be part of their family...experience the feeling through their eyes or being a part of their life.


Yes I have a medical issue as well. Very disturbing, hurts my heart.


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## sprout (Jul 31, 2009)

Have you considered becoming a foster parent?


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## Sunshine009 (Sep 21, 2008)

^I was about to say that. I know of a few people who have done this with some of them saying how divine intervention had been responsible.


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## GermanHermit (Sep 6, 2008)

I'm not a maternal person and so far never had a desire for children, though I do feel very annoyed by the fuss made when someone has just had a baby. It's not a that great achivement! I also find that the media and commercials romanticize family life and children.


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## JayDontCareEh (Jul 16, 2007)

Meh, no biggie. Listening to people drone on about their kids is really annoying anyway.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

EremitaGermanus said:


> I
> 
> There doesn't seem to be a real desire coming from within most of those women.
> 
> ...


Right on point.

I've have a woman in my office that just had a kid. She speaks as if she has done the world some great gift by giving birth. She almost expects to be treated differently for being a mother.

You're right, people want it all now adays. The truth is, that in order to be a great mom(or dad), you can't really have a fulltime career. The healthiest children grow up with a parent around fulltime, better if two.


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## autumnblue (Jan 8, 2010)

Logan X said:


> Sounds like people are never happy no matter what they have. They cry when they're single and they cry when they're married.
> 
> This is so true. I would try to live one day at a time and be happy.


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## Bewil (Jan 3, 2010)

VanDamMan said:


> ... She almost expects to be treated differently for being a mother.


Some are. Where i worked it was much easier to get time off or better working hours if you had kids. The slack could be taken up by those without kids because their time was seen as having less value.


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## britisharrow (Jun 18, 2009)

Everyone is given a problem. For some it's a facial disfigurement, no legs, no personality, cancer.

This is yours. You're lucky it's not fatal and you can do something about it.


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## Amelia (Nov 24, 2003)

NicoShy said:


> Is this some cruel joke or punishment from God? Why deprive me of this when all around me are families. I don't get it. No wonder there is nothing to talk about with most my age. So alone.


I know what you mean. I often feel lonely because of this. Although I don't have a craving for children, I often feel a misfit for not having them and feel as if I'm not a fully-fledged adult making a proper contribution to society.

I have four friends from college days with whom I've been in sporadic contact (Christmas, birthdays) for the past 20 years and the only one with whom I have any kind of real friendship any more is the one who is in the same situation as me, i.e. unmarried and without children. With the other three, who are married with kids, I find it difficult to know what to say, as their sole interest seems to be their own children and their family's activities. Of course, I show an interest in the children, ask about them, etc. when I'm in touch with these married friends, but it's difficult to know how to respond when they appear to have no interests other than their own children and show no reciprocal interest in me. Then I feel guilty and childish for expecting them to show an interest in me, because I know they are busy mothers with little time on their hands. Ultimately, because I'm not in the same situation as them and because I know that nothing interests them more than their own family, or perhaps comparing notes with other mothers, I feel _unworthy _of keeping in touch. I can't compete.


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## Cruiser (Jan 9, 2010)

I hear you, I wish I had children and a wife, came close to being married twice but they weren't the right person we realized after being engaged a while, I just keep hunting and focus my love for kids on spoiling my sister 4 girls. I am still confident that I will meet some one and have a family though.


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## Tweety Bird (Jan 17, 2010)

NicoShy, I registered because I identify so much with your post. I'm in my forties. I have had severe social anxiety most of my life. There wasn't anything I wanted more than a family and children (although I was always very concerned about passing on my SAD). In my opinion, the only reason I am not married with children is because of my social anxiety disorder. 

When I was younger, I always had the hope things would somehow work out for me. But, now I'm at an age where I probably can't have children and I am feeling older, too. I have less energy than I used to have and am wondering how I would keep up with a baby and toddler if was lucky enough to have one. 

I sincerely wish I was like the people who have posted that they don't wish to marry or have children but I'm not. From the time I was a little girl, I've always dreamed of being a mother. It hurts daily for me, too. The only difference between us is I don't really care about passing on my genes. My genes have caused me too much trouble. 

It's very possible that what people have written about the grass not being greener when married is true. I've had a lot of people tell me that. And, research backs up that idea especially for married couples raising children. In spite of this, marriage and children is still something I want very much. It just doesn't look like it's going to happen for me.


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

Tweety Bird said:


> NicoShy, I registered because I identify so much with your post. I'm in my forties. I have had severe social anxiety most of my life. There wasn't anything I wanted more than a family and children (although I was always very concerned about passing on my SAD). In my opinion, the only reason I am not married with children is because of my social anxiety disorder.
> 
> When I was younger, I always had the hope things would somehow work out for me. But, now I'm at an age where I probably can't have children and I am feeling older, too. I have less energy than I used to have and am wondering how I would keep up with a baby and toddler if was lucky enough to have one.
> 
> ...


Do you think the pressures of society have made you feel this way? I know at my job everyone is married and has kids and that makes me feel like an outsider. However, sometimes I think it's good that I didn't have kids because they would definitely end up with clinical depression, and some type of anxiety disorder. Almost everyone in my family has it. I ask myself would it be fair to the child for me to bring it into the world to make me feel better about myself? I actually at one point did have an opportunity where I could have had a child and I really felt like it wouldn't be right. As I am a teacher I realize what a huge responsiblity it is and how you can ruin someone's life. I work in special education so many of the parents are disturbed and you can see they have difficulty raising their kids and their kids suffer for it. I felt like I don't want to be responsible for ruining someone's life. As a special education teacher I can say with complete certaintly that some people should never have children. I have seen the wreckage, neglected and abused children. People need to realize that it is not just something cute and sweet it is a non-stop 24 hour a day responsibility. For myself, I love working with the kids, but I don't know if I could deal with 24/7 and you have too. I also wouldn't be happy to pass SA and clinical depression on to them.


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## facade (Oct 1, 2009)

antonina said:


> Do you think the pressures of society have made you feel this way? I know at my job everyone is married and has kids and that makes me feel like an outsider. However, sometimes I think it's good that I didn't have kids because they would definitely end up with clinical depression, and some type of anxiety disorder. Almost everyone in my family has it. I ask myself would it be fair to the child for me to bring it into the world to make me feel better about myself? I actually at one point did have an opportunity where I could have had a child and I really felt like it wouldn't be right. As I am a teacher I realize what a huge responsiblity it is and how you can ruin someone's life. I work in special education so many of the parents are disturbed and you can see they have difficulty raising their kids and their kids suffer for it. I felt like I don't want to be responsible for ruining someone's life. As a special education teacher I can say with complete certaintly that some people should never have children. I have seen the wreckage, neglected and abused children. People need to realize that it is not just something cute and sweet it is a non-stop 24 hour a day responsibility. For myself, I love working with the kids, but I don't know if I could deal with 24/7 and you have too. I also wouldn't be happy to pass SA and clinical depression on to them.


So what are you saying? You think people with depression and/or anxiety shouldn't have children. You say you work in special education, are implying you feel special needs children lives are just ruined???


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## Pam (Feb 14, 2009)

To OP,

i know how you feel. I am 41 and no kids. A long-term boyfriend, but never married. 

About the kids--when i see a girl 1/2 my age, big & pregnant, I get a terrible pang of jealousy. I don't necessarily want to give birth, but i wanted kids my whole life (thru adoption). 

I feel like I'm not a real woman because I'm not a "mother". But that is an irrational thought. I would be the same person, with or without kids. They don't make you a better (or worse) person. 

I haven't tried being a foster parent (which i think is GREAT idea) because of SA. I'm too chicken. Nevermind think I deserve to adopt a kid---I feel like I can't even take care of myself (because of SA, I can't work) so I don't think I should be "allowed" to adopt. This too is irrational....

By the time I get over my irrational thinking, I'll have to be a foster GRANDMOTHER!! 

I say try being a foster parent! You may find that kids are more of a pain in the but than you thought and won't feel so bad about not having them (?)


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

Tweety Bird said:


> NicoShy, I registered because I identify so much with your post. I'm in my forties. I have had severe social anxiety most of my life. There wasn't anything I wanted more than a family and children (although I was always very concerned about passing on my SAD). In my opinion, the only reason I am not married with children is because of my social anxiety disorder.
> 
> When I was younger, I always had the hope things would somehow work out for me. But, now I'm at an age where I probably can't have children and I am feeling older, too. I have less energy than I used to have and am wondering how I would keep up with a baby and toddler if was lucky enough to have one.
> 
> ...


I am 41 and there are grandparents who have custody over young kidss. If they can do it, so can we. I have gone to a dr who specializes in my disorder and I hope to get preggger this year. Good luck


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

Pam said:


> To OP,
> 
> i know how you feel. I am 41 and no kids. A long-term boyfriend, but never married.
> 
> ...


One thing abt being a foster is you have to have a 2 bedroom to even start the process. Plus if you cant afford the private agencies they state places only have teenagers to adopt. its not easy to just adopt.


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

facade said:


> So what are you saying? You think people with depression and/or anxiety shouldn't have children. You say you work in special education, are implying you feel special needs children lives are just ruined???


I'm just saying that parents shouldn't bring children into the world if they aren't going to take care of them.

I think it's not the worst thing not to have children. It is worse if you bring children into the world without thinking it through because you can't just dump them off when you are not in the mood.

I don't think students with disabilities lives are ruined because I wouldn't be helping them if I did. I see their parents not taking them to the doctor for a year to get them glasses even though they are having trouble reading. I see them not feeding them. I see them letting their teeth rot out to the point where they are having permanent teeth pulled out at age 10. One of my students was pulling our pieces of her broken tooth in class and she was in continual pain. We had to make a CPS report and still the child wasn't removed. I see them letting 9 and 10 year old kids run the streets at 11 p.m. I am not even convinced that some of these children are really disabled. I think a lot of it is them never having been taken care of. I also work with children who have been physically and sexually abused by their father. Of course they are emotionally disturbed now. I think these people should not have had children because they are bringing children into the world and not taking care of them at all. The children would truly be lost if teachers at our school and the day care people didn't step in and raise them.


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

facade said:


> So what are you saying? You think people with depression and/or anxiety shouldn't have children. You say you work in special education, are implying you feel special needs children lives are just ruined???


I am also not saying that people with depression and SA should never have children, but I really feel that it should be under control through medication and therapy. It should be well managed before another life is brought into the world. I mean someone who is deeply depressed will have a difficult time finding the energy to parent a child without treatment. The child will suffer because of this. If you have A and E watch the show Hoarders and see how much the children suffer because of their parents problem hoarding. If you've ever watched the show Intervention you will see the parents' addiction problems really hurt the children a lot. I have had seriously mixed feelings about having a child because of this. When I work with kids at school I get off at the end of the day and the weekends and breaks. I don't know how I would deal with the constant pressure it could make me worse and then the child would suffer. I just don't think people should run off and have children without giving it very serious thought because it is a human life that you need to be responsible for. You can't just dump it off when you're not in the mood. I had a seriously mentally ill mother raise me and I can say that it was a very traumatic experience to grow up with. It's similar to having alcoholic parents. It is really hard.


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## facade (Oct 1, 2009)

I think we cross a very fine line when we start deciding who can and cannot have children. It goes back to the days of State Hospitals and sterlization without consent. I couldnt agree with you more Antonina that there are some real lousy parents out there. CPS doesn't work its a broken system. But when I read your post what i got from it is you work with children and here you are saying you believe their lives are ruined. Honestly I was angry, if thats not what you meant then I apologize. The school system can order psychological testing which can help determine if the child has a mental illness and/or a behavioral promblem. Plus there should be a school psychologist. 

Having a child is a very personal decision, not for others to make for us.

Also when dealing with children who have disabilites judging them or their parents isn't helpfull, compassion and sincerity are:idea


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

facade said:


> I think we cross a very fine line when we start deciding who can and cannot have children. It goes back to the days of State Hospitals and sterlization without consent. I couldnt agree with you more Antonina that there are some real lousy parents out there. CPS doesn't work its a broken system. But when I read your post what i got from it is you work with children and here you are saying you believe their lives are ruined. Honestly I was angry, if thats not what you meant then I apologize. The school system can order psychological testing which can help determine if the child has a mental illness and/or a behavioral promblem. Plus there should be a school psychologist.
> 
> Having a child is a very personal decision, not for others to make for us.
> 
> Also when dealing with children who have disabilites judging them or their parents isn't helpfull, compassion and sincerity are:idea


I am not telling other people they can or cannot have children. However, I am saying that people need to seriously think about what it means to have a child. They need to think about what it means for the child and not just themselves. The child has a right to be in a loving safe environment with people that care for it. If someone has no intention of taking care of a child I don't understand why they bring that child into the world. Who do they expect to take care of it? A child is a living human being with huge needs and requires good parenting to be able to flourish. I would like for children to have a good start in life.

I also have a lot of hope for students in my class. However, I see patterns over the years. Students who have involved parents have a better outcome over time than those that have parents that are not involved. I keep in touch with the kids when they move on. If the parents are not involved the child is much more likely to be in Juvenile Hall or dropped out in high school.

I have worked in special education for 15 years and I know how the system works. All my students have been tested by a psychologist. You can't get into special ed without this. However, I don't believe in testing 100% there are many things that bias it. There is something called "false positives." This is where a child scores poorly on testing but is not really learning disabled. I think this happens in the case of some of my students because of the chaos of their home lives. I think it's sad that they get a learning disabled label for their school career when it's due to home factors. I think it's a serious problem if I am looking out for a child more than the parent is. After all I am with them 1 or 2 years and the parent is with them the rest of the time.

I have a lot of compassion for the children and parents. Everyone that works with me knows this. I bend over backwards for these families. If parents are willing to work together with me we have very positive outcomes. My problem is the parent who no matter how much I do for their child never wants to do a SINGLE thing. In fact they expect the school, day care, and social services to raise their child. They choose to go out partying leaving the child alone a night. They don't leave the house stocked with food. They don't see to the child's medical needs. In fact two of the kids had teeth that were rotten and they were almost poisoned from it. Another had a gangrene toe and a school official had to take her to the doctor to avoid blood poisoning mom couldn't be bothered. I went out to another house on a home visit on my own time and mom couldn't be bothered to show up. Instead I found the child alone in an apartment with strange adults who were lying on the couch nodding out on drugs. I have hope for these children, however their parents instead of helping me are actually working against me with this type of behavior. It also is a fact that people who were neglected and abused will require a lot of therapy to deal with it. I feel more sorry for the child in this situation than the parent who is an adult. 

I fill out health insurance forms and all types of forms for these parents on my own time to get their child help. I put it in front of them and all they have to do is sign it. This one woman has a decent job and is perfectly capable of doing it but her daughter is her lowest priority. The counselor even said I'm enabling the mom, but I do it for the child so she could get counseling. The children even say they wish they had different parents. I never say anything about the parents in front of the kids. I always say "Parents have problems too sometimes and it doesn't mean they don't love you." However, I get pretty sick of these parents and what they do to their kids. Sorry, I just can't understand bringing a child into the world and not taking care of it. Other people at my job will say things like, "You have to get a driver's license to drive a car but just anyone can have a kid." If you had to work with these problem parents like I do you might have a different perspective.


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## GermanHermit (Sep 6, 2008)

Interesting read, antonina.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

Cleary said:


> lol I'm the complete opposite. I would consider having a husband and kids a 'punishment from god' instead.


Wow, please don't ever tell your kids that.


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## princessorwhat (Mar 30, 2007)

Interesting thread. I am also surrounded by lots of work colleagues who are married with kids. Having recently broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years, it can hurt sometimes. One colleague actually said that unmarried people above the age of 38 were all nuts. I felt like slapping him.

Of course I would prefer being in a committed, happy relationship, but that doesn't seem to be happening for me. So for now I prefer being single to being in an unhappy relationship.

Luckily I have some single friends as well and that helps a lot. It would be nice if I could get married and have children one day, but it is not something that HAS to happen in order for my life to have meaning. I'm 30 now so the possibility is still there, so if I happen to meet Mr Right after all and have a good relationship with him, financial security, and good circumstances in general, I would like to have children, but if it doesn't happen, that would have its good points too. Without children, you can have a lot more freedom, go on spontaneous trips, and spend more money on yourself, for example.


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## GermanHermit (Sep 6, 2008)

princessorwhat said:


> (...)One colleague actually said that unmarried people above the age of 38 were all nuts. I felt like slapping him.(...)


But there's some grain of truth in it too, I guess. People who are alone for a long time seem to develop and cultivate quirks.


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## Amelia (Nov 24, 2003)

EremitaGermanus said:


> I consider it normal if you have a longtime partner and the external circumstances and living conditions are right, that one day the wish for starting a family arises.


That's the way I see it too, and can't understand why single women should be desperate to have a child. But everyone is different and there clearly are women who feel that way. Perhaps it is a genuine biological urge in many cases.


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## bevo (Jan 23, 2010)

NicoShy, it will all work out....it always does. Have a great day today


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## Ysonesse (Dec 25, 2009)

princessorwhat said:


> Of course I would prefer being in a committed, happy relationship, but that doesn't seem to be happening for me. So for now I prefer being single to being in an unhappy relationship.


Me too, though I forgot how it felt to be with someone during that brief period when everything's going great and all feels right with that person and everything just seems...possible. Yes, it's a strange feeling, when you're in love, or think you're in love...it's false most of the time, but maybe living in the midst of a lie isn't so bad sometimes...


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## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm personally not too fussed. I do feel some sort of onus to carry the bloodline/name on, but that's it. Other peoples kids give me the ****s, and so do parents who never shut up about them... but I understand that they're thrilled etc.

I have no idea what I want, but there's still time for me. I certainly couldn't afford kids at this stage anyway.


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## JaiUnSoucis (Oct 22, 2008)

Freak said:


> Being married might cause stress but isnt it our destiny?


our destiny?

no


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## JaiUnSoucis (Oct 22, 2008)

EremitaGermanus said:


> Interesting read, antonina.
> 
> If a normal intelligent adult deliberately decides to have a child just for the sake of having a child, despite obviously having realized that they can't even take proper care of themselves then that is very immature and irresponsible.
> 
> ...


/agree very good stuff here


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## JaiUnSoucis (Oct 22, 2008)

IMHO, and i know im gonna sound like a bitter depressed individual when i say this, but...

i would rather not have children, just because i wouldnt want to be the cause of something so innocent and helpless being braught into such a vile and disgusting world.

most people make me feel sick, i dont find them charming or fun or interesting in any way.

that being said, another reason is just that i would be horrified to find out that i might be a worse father then my father was to me. that would destroy me.


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## JaiUnSoucis (Oct 22, 2008)

I wholeheartedly agree with antonina.

If you have any doubts about your abilities to raise a child

DON'T HAVE ONE

save these innocent children the pain and suffering they do not deserve.

and to be honest people should have to take certain evaluations to see if they are capable to raise a child.

yeah i know its a personal decision, but if you are incapable to raise one you honestly shouldn't be aloud. it can save a precious individual a lot of pain and suffering.


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## Cleary (Nov 10, 2007)

low said:


> Wow, please don't ever tell your kids that.


lol don't worry. I won't because I'm never having kids.


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## eejm (Jan 22, 2010)

I became a parent rather unwillingly. I was (and still am) married and was using birth control pills just as they were prescribed. Didn't miss any days. I got pregnant, and we did debate about whether or not to terminate the pregnancy, but then decided to do it. It was a good decision, and we now have a lovely six-year-old boy. I'd say he's one of the most interesting people I've ever met. 

I enjoy being a mother much more than I thought I would, but I wouldn't say it has completed me as a person or a woman. I felt like a perfectly complete and whole person before my son was born. I have little to no desire for any other children. My husband and I had never completely decided against having kids, but nor were we the type who definitely intended to have them either. Neither of us are or were completely ga-ga for babies or kids. 

There are some very weird values in the US (and maybe in other areas of the world) with having children. We as a society revile those who are are lousy parents for good reason, but we also have disdain for those who don't have children, considering them "selfish." Well, if all of these childless people are "selfish," do we really want them having children?

My in-laws absolutely hounded us when we were first married to have kids NOW NOW NOW, which I found extremely offensive. My husband and I were definitely not in a place to do so financially, personally, or professionally to become parents immediately after marriage, which my in-laws seemed to find appalling. We more or less had to sit them down and tell them that if kids happened, they were still many years off, and that they needed to accept that and shut up. 

I know we've gotten some dirty looks when we've said that our son will likely stay an only child. "Oh no, you HAVE to give him a SIBLING!!!" we hear. Umm...why? My brother and I are not close, and he was a positively horrid brother. My husband and sister-in-law can take or leave one another. We have no desire whatsoever for another child. Wouldn't we be doing our son, a potential second child, and ourselves a huge disservice by having another? No, apparently we're "selfish" too. The aforementioned in-laws have made several jabs about this since our son has been born. 

I suppose the attitude that everyone MUST have children has perpetuated the species somewhat, but I still don't think it's a healthy idea in any way, shape, or form.


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## Solobikerider (Apr 15, 2009)

I can relate to the OPs post and feelings.
What I hate most about american society and..even some of the women
I have heard talk is this.
If a guy isnt married by his 30s there is something wrong with him.
Now I have reasons for being in the spot I am-single and childless and infact dateless..lol and I despise those reasons but I hate the societal
judgement that takes place from time to time..

Id rather be where you wanna be too!
but if its not practical, reasonable for me and doesnt become so
Im resigned to aging gracefully and with style as long as I can
live and work comfortably.


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## facade (Oct 1, 2009)

Amelia said:


> That's the way I see it too, and can't understand why single women should be desperate to have a child. But everyone is different and there clearly are women who feel that way. Perhaps it is a genuine biological urge in many cases.


I feel there is something biological to it (cannot say for everyone)but I already have children and somewhere mid 30's I found myself thinking about having another child. But almost like an urgent irrational way...like oh no the clock is ticking. Thankfully that has passed:b


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## Fairydust (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm in my mid thirties and have come to accept by now that I will never marry or have kids. It used to bother but it doesn't any more as I prefer being on my own most of the time these days. Being around other people stresses me out too much - especially at work. I only wish I could withstand the pressure that family and friends put me under regarding this. They're always asking me have I met someone yet and if I'm not careful I'll be left on the shelf. Long term relationships are not for me as I can't seem to make anything last longer than 2 or 3 months. It's just easier being on my own.


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## Catty (Jan 4, 2010)

Being a mother is a very difficult job. It can be real hard work and people underestimate it. People have a go if your child attends nursery or if you are a stay-at-home mother and no one (usually people without kids of their own) understands this much unless it happens to them. 

I can't work. I AM in work - being a mother! No one pays me.


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## Catty (Jan 4, 2010)

antonina said:


> I am not telling other people they can or cannot have children. However, I am saying that people need to seriously think about what it means to have a child. (snip) If someone has no intention of taking care of a child I don't understand why they bring that child into the world. Who do they expect to take care of it? A child is a living human being with huge needs and requires good parenting to be able to flourish. *I would like for children to have a good start in life.*
> 
> (snip)
> 
> ...


Sorry if I misunderstood you but you are implying that people who send their children to nurseries, day cares, child minders are no different to those that abuse their children? It seems like you're putting people in one same catagory. If you're saying that then you are being offensive. You tend to be very ideological in your views about who and who shouldn't have kids and when or what happens next and how we should and shouldn't raise them. If everyone thought "I mustn't have kids because I may not be able to cope with the tantrums all day and ask for a child minder" then there wouldn't be many people left in future. How old are your children btw? Having a child is tough work and sometimes the mother, and father, want a break sometimes. PND and stressful illnesses occur. That isn't being a bad parent.


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

Catty said:


> Sorry if I misunderstood you but you are implying that people who send their children to nurseries, day cares, child minders are no different to those that abuse their children? It seems like you're putting people in one same catagory. If you're saying that then you are being offensive. You tend to be very ideological in your views about who and who shouldn't have kids and when or what happens next and how we should and shouldn't raise them. If everyone thought "I mustn't have kids because I may not be able to cope with the tantrums all day and ask for a child minder" then there wouldn't be many people left in future. How old are your children btw? Having a child is tough work and sometimes the mother, and father, want a break sometimes. PND and stressful illnesses occur. That isn't being a bad parent.


I don't think you have read through all of my posts because I don't think day care is a bad thing at all. I am talking about parents who have no time for their children and do not meet their basic needs. I am a special education teacher that works with some students who get almost no care from their parents. For example, their teeth are so rotten they are bleeding in class and pulling broken pieces out of their mouths. This is happening even though the mother has access to free dental care. She simply doesn't show up for appointments because she was out partying the night before and forgot. I also had to comb lice out of a girl's hair because her mother couldn't be bothered to do it. This is not my responsibility it is the mother's job. They also come to school dirty on a regular basis. It is to the point where Child Protective Services is involved many times.

I also can speak to the issue of growing up with mentally ill parents. It is extremely traumatic and psychologically damaging. I didn't want to personally repeat the process.

My point is everyone shouldn't feel compelled to have children, especially if they are not in a place to deal with the huge responsibility of it. It is a huge responsibility and needs to be thought about carefully. If certain people feel they don't want to have children people shouldn't be pressuring them to do it. Sometimes having children is clearly the wrong decision.

When a child comes from a troubled family it has an impact on the child. As an educator is have seen this for 15 years. It might not be PC but it's what happens. Most of these children have to depend on teachers, social workers, child care workers, etc. for any of their needs to be met. The children themselves will even say, "I wish you were my mother." This is because they want to have a care giver taking care of them, which is normal. They suffer from the neglect. People need to think about how their actions impact children.


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## Catty (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks for posting your reply to my questions although you didn't answer how old your children are. 

There is an age group between 2 and 4 years where the child becomes very difficult to manage. I used to wonder why the parents allowed their children (toddler aged kids) to be not properly covered in their pushchairs during freezing cold winters. The answer is that toddlers always wriggle out of their covers, pulling off shoes and socks and even jackets. Tantrums are created if the parents attempt to wrap up the kids but the kids will do it again after. Anyone passing by would think of that parent as being neglectful and there are many mothers who share the same experience. This happens but you might think it's the parents letting their children be exposed to the cold. If you haven't got any children then you wouldn't know this happens and often people without kids don't understand how hard it is raising a child. 

It's important to keep children's health and well being good even if it involves tantrum episodes. That's when firmness comes in. There is an age when kids understand they must have something like teeth brushing done. I can imagine that not all parents would be able to cope with this. 

Yes I've read your posts but I wanted you to clarify something for me. Some parents are simply neglectful. The kids you mentioned sound as if they come from special needs parents or they're from poor backgrounds. Are you saying that people who are poor and mentally ill shouldn't have kids? You're highlighting extreme cases where the children say they "wish you're their mother" so do you think their parents should've had these children?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I couldn't handle having kids. I can't handle stress and kids are as stressing as it gets. I tend to rant & rave when mad, so the kid's first word would likely be ****.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I love the freedom of being a single man. It allows me to be very selfish, I think the only negative is I worry that I will die alone, weak, and very old, but it seems like such a small price to pay at this time.


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## ironheart (Aug 14, 2009)

Another addition to the ranks.

Whilst I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that I enjoy my current status, I have reached the point of accepting it without self recrimination.

If it (a relationship, kids, etc) happens great, but if not the human race isn't going to suddenly die out and being single does, unquestionably, have it's perks which I'm more than content to appreciate, indefinately if need be.


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## NicoShy (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks for the replies but none have you have successfully turned me off to having my own family. Try as you might. :boogie


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

Catty said:


> Thanks for posting your reply to my questions although you didn't answer how old your children are.
> 
> There is an age group between 2 and 4 years where the child becomes very difficult to manage. I used to wonder why the parents allowed their children (toddler aged kids) to be not properly covered in their pushchairs during freezing cold winters. The answer is that toddlers always wriggle out of their covers, pulling off shoes and socks and even jackets. Tantrums are created if the parents attempt to wrap up the kids but the kids will do it again after. Anyone passing by would think of that parent as being neglectful and there are many mothers who share the same experience. This happens but you might think it's the parents letting their children be exposed to the cold. If you haven't got any children then you wouldn't know this happens and often people without kids don't understand how hard it is raising a child.
> 
> ...


The children are not toddlers they are 9 to 12 years old. They can speak for themselves and are very unhappy with their situations. What I think about who has children doesn't matter because people will go out and do what ever they want any way. You say I am highlighting extreme cases but you would be surprised how many children are neglected. I also have seen wealthy kids neglected too in that their parents rarely spend time with them. The common thread I see whether rich or poor is that when the parent isn't spending quality time with their child, the child feels this and has emotional problems.

I think people shouldn't be forced by societal pressure to have kids if they don't think they are up to the responsibility. I also think it's not fair to the child if someone doesn't want to put in the time and caring to be a parent. If someone feels like this they can think about adoption or a foster home until they are able to cope with the responsibility.

I know some of the girls in high school think that if they have a baby they will have something to love and it will be wonderful, but they have no idea what the responsibility will be and are not prepared for it. Many of them then end up dropping out of high school and end up in poverty. I think that having a child is an enormous responsiblity and people really need to be aware of this.


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## shygirl14 (May 23, 2009)

Not married, nor kids and I love kids. I am so use to being alone and rejected from family, friends and guys that I don't know if I will ever marry. Can't say I don't want it, I just don't know if it will ever be.


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## Solobikerider (Apr 15, 2009)

Prodigal Son said:


> I love the freedom of being a single man. It allows me to be very selfish, I think the only negative is I worry that I will die alone, weak, and very old, but it seems like such a small price to pay at this time.


Hey guess what..another person doesnt make you stronger or younger
although
you may live longer and happier........being alone in old age is harder.
and when you die only you will die..so we all die alone!
I can relate though.


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## Anna0612 (Mar 3, 2012)

*Alone Until I Die*

My sincere happiness to all of you that had the blessings of finding a mate,
getting married, and having a family. It wasn't meant to be that way for me
and I've finally accepted my failure at love with dignity and grace.

I'm one of those rare humans in the U.S.A. who will be alone until I die.

I love humanitarian work and serving others is such a great way to forget
myself and not wallow in self pity. My next endeavor is to work at an orphanage overseas in Asia or South America.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

There are a lot of things that single people can do that married people cannot. It has become such a false stigma in society - even churches seem like they discriminate.


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## erasercrumbs (Dec 17, 2009)

The main reason I would like to have a family is so I'd have an excuse to go to Dave & Buster's again. That place is the bee's knees, baby. A lone adult can't go all by himself!


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## CipherAgent (Feb 22, 2012)

This post only made me realize that I want to get married and have kids...


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## pumpkinspice (Aug 8, 2010)

erasercrumbs said:


> The main reason I would like to have a family is so I'd have an excuse to go to Dave & Buster's again. That place is the bee's knees, baby. A lone adult can't go all by himself!


Dude I want to go to Dave & Buster's so bad. I have never set foot in one or seen one in real life. I see the commercials for them all the time though. It's like a grown up Chucky Cheese right?

As for kids and marriage. Screw that. No thanks. I never want to pop out kids.


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## erasercrumbs (Dec 17, 2009)

pumpkinspice said:


> Dude I want to go to Dave & Buster's so bad. I have never set foot in one or seen one in real life. I see the commercials for them all the time though. It's like a grown up Chucky Cheese right?


Yes, it's a magical place where adults can play skee ball and air hockey and be utterly nonchalant about it. And the best part about Dave & Buster's is that it's socially acceptable for you to keep the booty you win from the crane game for yourself and not forfeit it to children. Yay for greed!


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## AK32 (Sep 2, 2010)

NicoShy said:


> Is this some cruel joke or punishment from God? Why deprive me of this when all around me are families. I don't get it. No wonder there is nothing to talk about with most my age. So alone.


I know how you feel it seems like everyone my age, the people that I went to school with, they all have families and jobs, and I don't. The whole thing just makes me feel so inadequate, and alone. I hate feeling this way. It really sucks.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

I can understand why one needs a mate via marriage or otherwise for sex/companionship, etc. but I have so much trouble understanding why anybody would ever want kids. That would be torture for me. What pleasure do people get from children?


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

Kon said:


> I can understand why one needs a mate via marriage or otherwise for sex/companionship, etc. but I have so much trouble understanding why anybody would ever want kids. That would be torture for me. What pleasure do people get from children?


I feel the same way. It absolutely baffles me that people would want to bring children into this messed up world, SA or not.

I guess i really underestimate maternal instinct.


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## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

I think marriage gives a false sense of commitment. Also I wouldn't marry because of that. It would be for legal benefits, insurances, and etc.


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