# Ghb/gbl?



## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Since GBL is legal I was wondering if anyone else has tried GHB or GBL and what effect it had on social anxiety? From what I've read on other places it seems to be a great alcohol substitute with less side effects like not destroying your liver.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

From my own experience, GBL has numerous negative health effects and isn't much healthier than alcohol. Severe dehydration, metabolic acidosis and vitamin depletion come to mind. GHB on the other hand is perfectly non-toxic, though it still shouldn't be used on a regular basis due to rapid tolerance development and withdrawal.

Their effects? Very similar, but GBL is faster-acting and much more harsh on the comedown. Both will make you confident, talkative and a little bit stupid (not nearly as much as alcohol). They will also make you so sexual that you may end up having experiences you'll later regret (also known as "_oh my god what have I done!?" syndrome_).


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> GBL has numerous negative health effects and isn't much healthier than alcohol.


I have consumed 10 litres of GBL during my first year of self-medicating (I call it my "dumb year "), but I had always perfect blood results, urine tests, ecg and so on. And my doctor says I am in perfect health right now. But today I agree that GHB is for sure the better choice. Trying to "treat" SA with GBL or GHB is risky, especially if someone tends to abuse substances.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Does the drug show up in standard drug tests? Not that I imagine I would ever be tested. It seems quite cheap too, £438 for 10 litres, which metabolises to 16kg of ghb if wikipedia is to believed which would last a lifetime.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

For me it was not quite a lifetime.  It doesn't show up in any drug test. One has to specifically search for it with advanced methods (eg. in a date rape case). And there is just a limited amount of time because of the short half-life.


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## StPatrick317 (Dec 4, 2008)

Medline said:


> I have consumed 10 litres of GBL during my first year of self-medicating (I call it my "dumb year "), but I had always perfect blood results, urine tests, ecg and so on. And my doctor says I am in perfect health right now. But today I agree that GHB is for sure the better choice. Trying to "treat" SA with GBL or GHB is risky, especially if someone tends to abuse substances.


What if you don't abuse substances, and have narcolepsy like symptoms(getting no REM sleep) and excessive daytime sleepiness?


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Sounds great then, I plan to use it as a substitue for alcohol when in social situations so I shouldn't come across that problem anyway. I just have to find some NaOH now, and hope I don't get arrested for ordering it lol.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

You can't get arrested just for ordering GBL to England AFAIK. If you synthesize GHB it's a different story.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

GBL is actually becoming illegal here very soon, I think. Oh well, it'll just join class C with GHB, and we all know how hard it is to get class Cs...


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Luckily I don't live in the UK.  But I'm sorry for you guys.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Yeah there's a possiblity that might happen because of one of those idiot parents campagining after their daughter died from an overdose, the same kind of thing happened with "extreme porn", so much for democracy in the UK. Seems strange that very addictive benzos are pescribed when GHB and cannabis can't be. Sometimes you feel like sending hatemail to these people and wondering to yourself, "why couldn't she have died instead?".


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Tried gbl today and it tasted horrendous even when diluted to less than 1%, it's definitely going to have to be K-GHB.


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## AbstractAnxiety (Mar 17, 2004)

I live in the States (texas to be exact), can I order GBL here? And if so where do I order online or pick it up in what store(s).

Sounds promising. A whole lot better than drinking alcohol!


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

> Tried gbl today and it tasted horrendous even when diluted to less than 1%,


Mix it with a soft drink; the bubbles/taste numbs your mouth and GBL is less nasty.



> it's definitely going to have to be K-GHB.


Converting to GHB is a good idea yeah, not that anyone can discuss it here. Saying that, I used to squirt 2mL and more straight into my mouth with a bit of water (and irritated my lips pretty badly). Once the fun starts you care less about taste.



AbstractAnxiety said:


> I live in the States (texas to be exact), can I order GBL here? And if so where do I order online or pick it up in what store(s).
> 
> Sounds promising. A whole lot better than drinking alcohol!


We shouldn't be discussing sources here, but if you google it, it's pretty easy to find. AFAIK state laws vary in the US, so you might wanna check.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

1ml seems to have an anxiolytic effect, felt strange though, kind of out of it, can't really describe it.


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## Beffrey28 (Jan 15, 2009)

In Holland it's very easy to buy GBL. I ordered abouth 2 months ago and they delivered the next day with no questions asked.
I love GBL but i only use it once or twice a week. 1,5ml is a high enough dosage for me. Many people dislike the taste, but i don't so i just take it with 500ml of water and another 500ml right afterwards.
It takes about 15 minutes to kick in and when it does you first feel a nice euphoric rush for about half an hour. After that you come in relaxation mode, and the anxiety is almost gone for another 2 hours.
After those 2,5/3 hours it begins to wear off. Too bad the effects are so short, but i still love it.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

GHB is used at low doses under the trade name "Alcover" in some countries to treat alcoholism.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

GHB/GBL loses its euphoric effects over time (when abused) and you have to go further into GABA-B territory. If I ever do it again, I'll be taking magnesium and/or memantine for tolerance. We need a better GHB agonist...


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## Beffrey28 (Jan 15, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> Hmm might want to check this out. Replace an old addiction (alcohol) with a new one  j/k


Yeah that is a risk if you are prone to addiction. I don't really am.
I mean i have everyday access to GBL, Klonopin, Phenibut, Ritalin, PEA, weed and Alcohol but i don't use them very much, while other people might get easily addicted to even one of those substances.
So in that way i am a little bit proud of myself. 
So guys, please be careful with stuff like GBL and PEA, because the abuse potential is very high.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

I heard from somebody on another forum that nothing comes closer to a real SA cure than GHB + Amphetamine. It wouldn't be at all practical for a daily regimen due to ultra-fast tolerance forming, but at least you'd be able to use it several times a week unlike MDMA or AMT.

Hell, just *one* of either GHB or Amp would completely rid me of my psychological illness.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

SWIM (= someone who isn't me) did GBL + Ritalin which comes close and can confirm that it "cures SA" for the time while under it's influence... but comedown was hard, luckily SWIM had some Klonopin. As a daily regimen it can't be used.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Ritalin comedowns are ****ing horrible.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

euphoria said:


> Ritalin comedowns are ****ing horrible.


If Ritalin is just an NDRI then how could there be such a strong comedown? I suspect that DA neurotransmission is part of methylphenidate's pharmacology, maybe through reversing the dopamine transporter rather than by simply deactivating it.


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## Beffrey28 (Jan 15, 2009)

I tried Selegiline+PEA and a small dose GBL and i have to say it 'cured' SA for sure. Comedown was less hard than i expected, but maybe that's because i take a lot of supps, vitamins and magnesium.
Maybe i will try Ritalin + GBL in the future, i don't know yet.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Beffrey28 said:


> I tried Selegiline+PEA and a small dose GBL and i have to say it 'cured' SA for sure. Comedown was less hard than i expected, but maybe that's because i take a lot of supps, vitamins and magnesium.
> Maybe i will try Ritalin + GBL in the future, i don't know yet.


There can be a sustainable longterm regimen created from all these...

***Selegiline 5-7.5mg, 7 days/week
***Ritalin 20-60mg, 4 days/week + 1mg clonazepam if needed
***GHB 4-6g, 3 days/week


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

I find that ghb leaves me more in control than alcohol, which tends to make me lethargic.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> There can be a sustainable longterm regimen created from all these...
> 
> ***Selegiline 5-7.5mg, 7 days/week
> ***Ritalin 20-60mg, 4 days/week + 1mg clonazepam if needed
> ***GHB 4-6g, 3 days/week


At the moment we know too little about the Selegiline + Ritalin potentiation to tell something about right doses. We have this bluelight report and some information from Beffrey28.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=242918


> from extensive personal experience i can try my best to explain the selegiline effect in different stimulants (for me).
> 
> It potentiates ritalin roughly 5 times. The cool thing is it seems to potentiate the stimulant effect about half as much as it potentiates its euphoric effect. I take 10mg selegiline and 5mg ritalin a day and it provides me with an astonishingly clean slightly stimulating dopamine high most of the day. Most notibly it lengthens ritalins effects (even stimulant) rediculously. Check into ritalins effects on dopamine and do the math. Truly a cool combo... just do NOT doubt the 5x potentiation and take even 10-15mg of ritalin w/ selegiline the first time. Even small doses like 10mg will ruin your entire day with a stimulant overdose.


@Beffrey28: Have you increased your Selegiline dose to 10mg / day and will you carefully try Ritalin again (starting low @ 2.5mg-5mg, taking Carvedilol 12.5mg before the experiment and having some benzos at hand)?


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Freesix88 said:


> Definitely be careful with ritalin + selegiline.
> 
> I tried if few a few days ago 5 mg selegiline + 5 mg ritalin (with no tolerance). I felt nothing so I took another 10 mg ritalin. The next day I had a very big headache. I saw blurry and suffered from strabismus or so (this only lasted 15 minutes or so very weird). I was scared as ****! My heart was beating like some bad *** mother****er. I layed in bed for 2-3 days or so. I took a lot Tylenol
> Before I will try this experiment once again I will wait till my blood pressure meter arrives and carvedilol. I bet if I took only 2.5 mg nothing happened. Start with low dosages.
> Be careful and don't be so stupid as me


Such experiments are really dangerous if one goes up with the dose too fast. It's always necessary to start low and to wait long enough between dosing. Taking Carvedilol before the combo makes things much safer, a blood pressure device is highly recommended and having benzos at hand is a good idea. "Normal" beta blockers like eg. Metoprolol must not be taken.


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## Beffrey28 (Jan 15, 2009)

Medline said:


> At the moment we know too little about the Selegiline + Ritalin potentiation to tell something about right doses. We have this bluelight report and some information from Beffrey28.
> 
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=242918
> 
> @Beffrey28: Have you increased your Selegiline dose to 10mg / day and will you carefully try Ritalin again (starting low @ 2.5mg-5mg, taking Carvedilol 12.5mg before the experiment and having some benzos at hand)?


Yes, i increased my Selegiline dose to 10mg about 4 days ago. Haven't tried PEA or Ritalin since. I have to say i don't really notice a big difference in effects between 5 mg and 10 mg. What can be the cause of this? Does it take a couple of weeks before the difference in dose is noticed?

I want to try Sele+Pea and Sele+Ritalin in the future again, but i first want to know the effects of my new dose.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

I took 1.5ml about 20mins ago and I can now see why people get addicted to this drug, I've never felt anything like this before, I can't describe it. It's definitely strengthened my will to live though, I feel like I can make it through this condition now.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

About an hour after taking it I threw up, should have taken metoclopramide I guess.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Beffrey28 said:


> Yes, i increased my Selegiline dose to 10mg about 4 days ago. Haven't tried PEA or Ritalin since. I have to say i don't really notice a big difference in effects between 5 mg and 10 mg. What can be the cause of this? Does it take a couple of weeks before the difference in dose is noticed?


Yes, it takes at least a few weeks for a new irreversible MAOI dose to reach full inhibition, and probably another couple of weeks for your receptors to adjust so full [positive] effects can be experienced. When you first start, its nor/adrenaline releasing ability will probably be most prominent.



Ash09 said:


> I took 1.5ml about 20mins ago and I can now see why people get addicted to this drug, I've never felt anything like this before, I can't describe it. It's definitely strengthened my will to live though, I feel like I can make it through this condition now.


1.5ml is a rather heavy dose for your first time; I'd go with a bit less until you're used to the effects. Higher doses activate GABA(B) receptors more, which blocks the GHB receptors' positive effects to some extent, and makes you stupid. Anywhere from 0.8-1.6ml is usually the "sweet spot". Personally I can't handle much above 1.4ml when around others, and I wouldn't drive on anything >1ml. When I had a massive tolerance though, I regularly necked 2ml and above. It mostly just gave sedative effects rather than euphoric, and the tolerance still hasn't gone that much.

As the drug wears off, you get less dopamine stimulation but are still pretty messed up, which in addition to the jerks and twitches, can make the comedown quite harsh for a lot of people. I found that selegiline makes the crash non-existent. It'd be probably even worse to drive/operate heavy machinery in this state than when actually "on" the drug.



Ash09 said:


> About an hour after taking it I threw up, should have taken metoclopramide I guess.


Metoclopramide enters the central nervous system, so it will act similarly to typical antipsychotics in reducing dopamine's pleasurable effects in your brain. You may lose the nausea, but you'll also lose a lot of the positive effects.

They sell a dopamine antagonist that only works outside the CNS here in the UK: domperidone. The brand is "Motillum" or something like that; one pill is usually enough to cure [most] drug-induced nausea for me.

However, the dose of domperidone should be titrated up to the lowest dose necessary to relieve nausea if you take dopaminergic drugs on a regular basis, or if you only take them occasionally, it should be taken only on an as-needed basis. This is because you don't want to go below the normal level of dopamine activity in your body; only to offset the drug's boost in it. If you block dopamine excessively, you can increase prolactin levels, resulting in man-boobs (and probably other effects).


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> Stupid question, but do you build a tolerance to selegiline so it becomes ineffective after a while like benzo's?


Not really, no. I'd still take the things I take for preventing tolerance, though, if I went back on selegiline.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

euphoria said:


> 1.5ml is a rather heavy dose for your first time; I'd go with a bit less until you're used to the effects. Higher doses activate GABA(B) receptors more, which blocks the GHB receptors' positive effects to some extent, and makes you stupid. Anywhere from 0.8-1.6ml is usually the "sweet spot". Personally I can't handle much above 1.4ml when around others, and I wouldn't drive on anything >1ml. When I had a massive tolerance though, I regularly necked 2ml and above. It mostly just gave sedative effects rather than euphoric, and the tolerance still hasn't gone that much.
> 
> As the drug wears off, you get less dopamine stimulation but are still pretty messed up, which in addition to the jerks and twitches, can make the comedown quite harsh for a lot of people. I found that selegiline makes the crash non-existent. It'd be probably even worse to drive/operate heavy machinery in this state than when actually "on" the drug.


It wasn't my first dose, .5ml didn't have any noticeable effects, 1.0ml made me sedated which is probably what I'll use in public, 1.5ml would be great for social situations though. As for a comedown, I didn't get one as far as I'm aware other than the vomiting, after that I was back to normal as if nothing had happened.



> Metoclopramide enters the central nervous system, so it will act similarly to typical antipsychotics in reducing dopamine's pleasurable effects in your brain. You may lose the nausea, but you'll also lose a lot of the positive effects.
> 
> They sell a dopamine antagonist that only works outside the CNS here in the UK: domperidone. The brand is "Motillum" or something like that; one pill is usually enough to cure [most] drug-induced nausea for me.


How effective is it though generally? I remember reading that metoclopramide had much greater efficacy.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

back 8-9 years ago i used to buy GHB by the gallon...it was a truly remarkable drug for motivating me to be social and it gave me energy and it raises your libido thru the roof....i would simply take a capful and a half and go off and have a great time....i never showed signs of addiction to it as the most id ever taken it was maybe 2-3 times a week, if that...with GHB, you could actually sit down withs oemone and no matter how boring the conversation was, you could stay interested!!!you could talk to anyone, you just felt great on it..i would pick ghb over alcohol any day of the week...alcohol has no advantages over ghb imo...

problem is, you cant take ghb every day all day to rid yourself of SA or anxiety in general..you will find yourself addicted/depednant in no time.....sooo, back to the drawing board for something that actually WORKS and it practical.....


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

How long before taking ghb should I take an anti-emetic like domperidone?


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

I took 1.5ml of gbl and threw up so yeah.  1ml is fine though.


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## StPatrick317 (Dec 4, 2008)

I don't see what the big deal is. I have a prescription for it, for excessive daytime sleepiness(legit) & find it doesnt help anxiety unless you take a very large dosage. However, I think its much healthier for you to take than alcohol *if* you have to choose between the two.

Basically, I have a prescription or could get one for nearly all the drugs, that people here claim would "cure" their Social Anxiety. Thats not how it works. It will help your anxiety for a few weeks, then it won't work. After that point, you can take it a few times a week and it will work. But a couple hours a week free of anxiety is nothing. The MAOI Nardil looked far better than GHB, Ketamine, Benzodiazipines, Ritalin, various prescription amphetamines etc. It really does for most people. Your likely to have much better success with it. 

As far as GBL, I honestly don't know about it as I've never had it. I've heard that it is more toxic to your body than GHB, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse than the legal alcohols available


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

StPatrick317 said:


> I don't see what the big deal is. I have a prescription for it, for excessive daytime sleepiness(legit) & find it doesnt help anxiety unless you take a very large dosage. However, I think its much healthier for you to take than alcohol *if* you have to choose between the two.
> 
> Basically, I have a prescription or could get one for nearly all the drugs, that people here claim would "cure" their Social Anxiety. Thats not how it works. It will help your anxiety for a few weeks, then it won't work. After that point, you can take it a few times a week and it will work. But a couple hours a week free of anxiety is nothing. The MAOI Nardil looked far better than GHB, Ketamine, Benzodiazipines, Ritalin, various prescription amphetamines etc. It really does for most people. Your likely to have much better success with it.
> 
> As far as GBL, I honestly don't know about it as I've never had it. I've heard that it is more toxic to your body than GHB, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse than the legal alcohols available


Opioids, amphetamines, benzos, and actually most drugs can be used on a long-term basis if you prevent tolerance.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

StPatrick317 said:


> But a couple hours a week free of anxiety is nothing.


If I can take GHB just one day of the week and be free from anxiety that's better than nothing, and free of the bad side effects of antidepressants.


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## Ash09 (Apr 27, 2009)

Does anyone know what dopaminergic effects it exhibits? I know it's a GABA-B and GHB agonist, but how does that effect dompaine levels and give a drive to socialise?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Ash09 said:


> Does anyone know what dopaminergic effects it exhibits? I know it's a GABA-B and GHB agonist, but how does that effect dompaine levels and give a drive to socialise?


Its effects on those two receptors are contradictory; GABA(B) agonism inhibits the release of various neurotransmitters and contributes a sedative/anxiolytic effect, while GHB receptor agonism induces the release of dopamine and glutamate. It is the GHB agonism that gives G its pleasurable and sociabilising effects.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

there are no recreational drugs from what ive seen/read/experienced that will cure anxiety....you simply cannot take or drink alcohol/ghb/benzos/opiates every day for years and not develop a tolerance or start to experience the side effects...the longer u take them, the less positive results you will get and the more negative you will recive...believe me, ive tried to self medicate my own anxieties but it really doesnt work long term but like a few others have said, short term relief is better than no relief at all..

oh and good luck tryingto get a good supply of opiods and try to take them sparingly for a long time without developing a nice little habit..can it be done, sure but its not likely for most folks..


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

I've used GBL extensively for several months, if anyone wants to ask anything go ahead. I'm no expert on the scientific side of it but I know pretty much everything about the practical uses. 

I've just signed up here and I'm not sure exactly what chemicals we are allowed to talk about, I'll read the rules in a second. But I can at least say that I'm not stranger to all sorts of chemicals. 

Anyway, after using GBL for some time I think I've finally decided to give it up. I got withdrawals from GBL quite quickly, they were really quite bizarre and nasty at first. My useage was nowhere near as bad as a lot of people but I did do it most nights for 2-3 weeks. I think because I've been quite a heavy alcohol binge drinker in the last few years anything acting on the GABA receptors causes me to withdraw fairly easily. While you are on it it feels great, no social anxiety at all. It's quite a short fix though and I wouldn't recommend using it to for self-medication for anxiety. Use it recreationally or for comedowns.

If you are cautious, research the substance and can apply self control then go again and try this. If like me you have a habit in getting drunk, taking various chemicals etc then AVOID AVOID AVOID. 

One time I drank the guts of a bottle of Jack Daniels then took some GBL. Next thing I know I'm Im waking up to find myself sitting upright in my bed with vomit everywhere with no memory of what happened previously. Disgusting, yes, and a narrow escape.

I'd say for me here are some pros and cons:

Pros:
- Everybody gets slightly varying effects and luckily for me I got very positive ones. The first 10 uses were almost on a part with that initial mdma euphoric buzz. After that it becomes more of a cleaner, happy alcohol kind of buzz. 

- Very cheap

- Works very quickly. The more you use it the quicker the onset - if I was to take some now there'd literally be a 1 minute comeup. 

- Combines very well with other substances (caution must be applied).

- No hangover whatsoever. (Though there is a rebound which I will mention in a minute)

Cons:
- Narrow increases of doseage can dramatically alter the effect. One minute you feel fine, the next you might pass out. Know your body and limits. 

- For some, the taste is repulsive. Maybe I'm too used to student nights out drinking cheap vodka etc because the taste doesn't bother me in the slightest!

- the rebound stimulation (occurs about 4 hours after use) can be slightly unsettling. It sort of feels like you have body load and your head might hurt a tiny bit. Sometimes you won't even notice it though and I find going for some exercise or focusing on some task levels it out.

- Very addictive. It's essentially a quick burst of happyness in a bottle, much more so than alcohol for me. It's quite easy to justify doing it more and more and getting into a pattern of daily use. Withdrawals can be terrible and vary drastically from user to user. My withdrawals were more psychological than physical. Horrible anxiety, bizarre dreams, constant sleep paralysis etc. 

- Risky combined with alcohol etc. 

I typed that up quite quickly, any questions ask.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Libertine said:


> I've just signed up here and I'm not sure exactly what chemicals we are allowed to talk about, I'll read the rules in a second. But I can at least say that I'm not stranger to all sorts of chemicals.


I'm not entirely sure either, but we talk about everything, from GHB to heroin to MDMA.



> Anyway, after using GBL for some time I think I've finally decided to give it up. I got withdrawals from GBL quite quickly, they were really quite bizarre and nasty at first.


You got withdrawals from just nightly use? I used it for about 8 hours each day for months, and got very little in the way of withdrawal, except an exacerbation of my already severe anhedonia.



> My useage was nowhere near as bad as a lot of people but I did do it most nights for 2-3 weeks. I think because I've been quite a heavy alcohol binge drinker in the last few years anything acting on the GABA receptors causes me to withdraw fairly easily. While you are on it it feels great, no social anxiety at all. It's quite a short fix though and I wouldn't recommend using it to for self-medication for anxiety. Use it recreationally or for comedowns.


Hmm, I don't personally think GHB is the cure most people make it out to be. It can be somewhat pro-social when you first start using it, but there's still the sedative GABA(B) element that makes you unable to think clearly. It's nothing compared to speed IMO (well, I've only tried PEA, but still).

Then again, not everyone shares my schizoid type of social anxiety. Some people are just nervous, and are "cured" by something that only calms them down.

Oh yeah, there definitely is a GHB/GBL comedown. It happens after the "dopamine rebound", and consists of quite intense dysphoria.


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

There's people I know who have done 10-15ml a day for months then stopped and got hardly anything. 

I, on the other hand, found myself getting slight neck pain/tightness and then really bad anxiety. Just when I'd be about to fall asleep I'd get a bizarre flash or bang and jolt fully awake in sweats. It was horrible. Everyone's different.


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

belfort said:


> there are no recreational drugs from what ive seen/read/experienced that will cure anxiety....you simply cannot take or drink alcohol/ghb/benzos/opiates every day for years and not develop a tolerance or start to experience the side effects...the longer u take them, the less positive results you will get and the more negative you will recive...believe me, ive tried to self medicate my own anxieties but it really doesnt work long term but like a few others have said, short term relief is better than no relief at all..
> 
> oh and good luck tryingto get a good supply of opiods and try to take them sparingly for a long time without developing a nice little habit..can it be done, sure but its not likely for most folks..


I completely agree with this. Gbl, benzos etc won't psychologically change you as a person long term, they'll just mask the problem while you're on them. It's easy to develop tolerance quickly, especially on benzos. Then when you're no on the substances everything will be even worse.

It might be a cliche but a healthy diet and plenty exercise works wonders. I get as good a buzz from weight lifting as I do from any drug and the high is natural and good for you.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

^^i eat a good diet and i workout everyday and it definitely helps, i recommend exercise to EVERYONE with anxiety or depression...the problem is, i lack the DESIRE/MOTIVATION to go out and socialize..i have anxiety but it isnt extreme, i just lack the natural pro-social skills that most have..the chemical or whatever that is responsible for being pro-social i was born without..lofl...ghb and sometimes alcohol literally ZAPS my brain into pro social mode, nothing else works so its really hard to stay away from drugs if they are the only thibngs that work..


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

belfort said:


> ^^i eat a good diet and i workout everyday and it definitely helps, i recommend exercise to EVERYONE with anxiety or depression...the problem is, i lack the DESIRE/MOTIVATION to go out and socialize..i have anxiety but it isnt extreme, i just lack the natural pro-social skills that most have..the chemical or whatever that is responsible for being pro-social i was born without..lofl...ghb and sometimes alcohol literally ZAPS my brain into pro social mode, nothing else works so its really hard to stay away from drugs if they are the only thibngs that work..


Yeah, I've just started working out again, will probably try to eat healthier as well.

You are right, people tell me I am shy and should just accept it, but they can take these words of wisdom and shove them right back up their arse from whence they came. I don't want to be an un-social loser for the rest of my life; we need other people to thrive. There's also the fact that without drugs I just don't enjoy life as much as other people, and I don't consider this fair.

Very few people understand that nothing, NOTHING works except drugs for this. Sure you can therapise away some of the bad habits of schizoid personality disorder, but the majority of us are simply born with this type of personality and will be forever plagued by it unless we do something. The unfortunate thing is that dopamine is involved, and dopaminergic drugs are the ones that are highly addictive and therefore illegal. You are VERY unlikely to find a doctor willing to prescribe the meds that work for schizoid personality.

I'm not necessarily looking to get high all day -- what may make others high just makes me normal! If anyone wants to stop me, they can do it via my fist.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

^^with schizoid personality disorder, ive heard that nothing really works, you cant really treat it..i dont see how CBT or any other type of therapy would somehow change someone or give someone the desire to form relationships...with most schizoids though, they refuse treatment as they see nothing wrong with what they have...euphoria, you have a PM..

ok, back to ghb talk


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

belfort said:


> ^^i eat a good diet and i workout everyday and it definitely helps, i recommend exercise to EVERYONE with anxiety or depression...the problem is, i lack the DESIRE/MOTIVATION to go out and socialize..i have anxiety but it isnt extreme, i just lack the natural pro-social skills that most have..the chemical or whatever that is responsible for being pro-social i was born without..lofl...ghb and sometimes alcohol literally ZAPS my brain into pro social mode, nothing else works so its really hard to stay away from drugs if they are the only thibngs that work..


I seem to lack a motivation to get into social situations when I'm sober as well. I've wondered if I have depression or particular anxiety issues or maybe I'm just....me.

If I push myself into talking to people its not that big a deal but I don't feel like I really get anything out of it! It seems a chore.

That said, I enjoy going out with most of my friends and its pretty effortless.

My main social anxiety issue is probably talking to girls/women, I'm completely useless at that.

I dunno if I have social anxiety issues or just need a boot up the backside. Conversation certainly doesn't come as easy to me as it does to many though


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## TheUnwelcome (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm surprised that no one has really talked about what is contained in GHB. One of the ingredients is paint thinner. Do you really want to be drinking that?


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

TheUnwelcome said:


> I'm surprised that no one has really talked about what is contained in GHB. One of the ingredients is paint thinner. Do you really want to be drinking that?


You don't drink GHB, you drink GBL.

GBL diluted doesn't give me any stomach irritation, unlike large doses of alcohol. A regular dose for me would probably be 2ml in about 300ml fluid (usually water or diet coke) and then chase some water.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

TheUnwelcome said:


> I'm surprised that no one has really talked about what is contained in GHB. One of the ingredients is paint thinner. Do you really want to be drinking that?


GBL is what you're thinking of there. GHB is actually produced in the human body, and is proven by numerous studies to be completely non-toxic (come to think of it, so is GBL). It'd be a pretty stupid evolutionary mistake if our bodies used a toxic chemical as a neurotransmitter.

I'm sure if you got some pure ethanol (alcohol), it'd thin paint. Paint-thinning ability doesn't necessarily determine toxicity.

Related anecdote: I know a guy that, in a painfully hapless moment, drank pure GBL. Anyone that's tasted even diluted G knows two things: it tastes like regurgitated cat piss, and it burns. Ouch.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

But GBL is not toxic. SWIM (someone who isn't me) consumed ~ 10 litres of GBL within ~ 10 months. All blood & urine tests during this "dumb 24/7 area" were within normal ranges. Also now SWIM's internist tells him that he is completely healthy. 1,4-Butanediol would have been a completely different story...


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

Medline said:


> But GBL is not toxic. SWIM (someone who isn't me) consumed ~ 10 litres of GBL within ~ 10 months. All blood & urine tests during this "dumb 24/7 area" were within normal ranges. Also now SWIM's internist tells him that he is completely healthy. 1,4-Butanediol would have been a completely different story...


Some people just hear about its industrial uses and make a silly comment without researching the facts.

Yes GBL will burn a hole in your stomach if you swallow it UNDILUTED!

And yeah by all accounts the slightly similar 1,4-b substance is meant to be pretty dirty stuff.

PS - I'm getting ridiculous temptations to have some gbl just now! I'd told myself a couple of weeks off at least to focus on resit university coursework but after 3 days of no GBL I really long for that instant pick me up! dammit!

PSS - 10 LITRES! HOLY HELL! What sort of daily use was that? You must have had crazy withdrawals.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Libertine said:


> PSS - 10 LITRES! HOLY HELL! What sort of daily use was that? I You must have had crazy withdrawals.


SWIM took about 35ml GBL / day around the clock. First SWIM tried the combination of Haldol + Ativan + Inderal for withdrawals, which didn't help for more than 18 hours then he got paranoid. SWIM used Phenobarbital in the end and just slept over the withdrawal process, but now SWIM knows that taking the GABA-B agonist Baclofen t.i.d. and slowly tapering the dose down is probably the way to go in GHB/GBL withdrawal.


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

Tapering with alcohol and/or benzos works quite well. When my withdrawals got quite nasty, I was drinking out of a jack daniels bottle straight just to feel normal and try sleep. 

Any gaba substance will releave withdrawals but also possible extend/delay them. Often with drugs cold turkey can be the best and quickest method, but this can be dangerous in severe cases (seizures and even fatal). 

35ml though man? **** me! I'm on a lot of quite serious drug forums and never have I come across such serious useage.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

libertine-does ghb make you pro-social??all this talk makes me wish i had a gallon or ten of it


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

belfort said:


> libertine-does ghb make you pro-social??all this talk makes me wish i had a gallon or ten of it


Yeah very much so. when I take it I sometimes find myself actively wanting to go to the shops or something when I don't really need to. In low doses it makes you want to get out and about and chat to people.

I don't know if I'd use it for those purposes though, daily use will lead to dependence and bad withdrawals in most cases. If you kept it for special occasions or irregular use then I guess it would be fine though.


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## Sweeney Todd (Sep 20, 2007)

I have mild social anxiety, but there were times I was really anxious talking with women I found attractive, can GHB/GBL help for "dating anxiety"?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

NicktheGreek said:


> I have mild social anxiety, but there were times I was really anxious talking with women I found attractive, can GHB/GBL help for "dating anxiety"?


It depends on your brain chemistry, GHB or GBL do nothing for my social anxiety, works great for anhedonia tough. However the vast majority of ppl find GHB usefull.

Dosing needs to be limited tough, take max 3 doses a day to avoid addiction.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

I have not heard of GHB or GBL until today.
maybe it's hard to find it in my country
what is its trade name?
what is its main application?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> I have not heard of GHB or GBL until today.
> maybe it's hard to find it in my country
> what is its trade name?
> what is its main application?


Its used legally as a cleaning product in europe (GBL), GHB is used as a treatment for narcolepsy in the US (Xyrem).
GBL isnt officially used for human use, it however turns into GHB into your body, so the fact that its used as an cleaning product doesnt need to scare you.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

could someone please tell me what does effect of GBL/GHB on SAD look like?
for example is it like stimulants(adderall,ritalin,...)?


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## Saqq (Dec 1, 2008)

This is the first I heard of it, how do you get it? Ebay or Health/Excercise Food store I'm guessing? anyone know the status in Canada?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> could someone please tell me what does effect of GBL/GHB on SAD look like?
> for example is it like stimulants(adderall,ritalin,...)?


Hard to explain, its very energizing and makes you feel euphoric.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Saqq said:


> This is the first I heard of it, how do you get it? Ebay or Health/Excercise Food store I'm guessing? anyone know the status in Canada?


You can only order it as a cleaning product from the internet.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Why dont you just wait untill its evening to take it? I took my last 100ml in a week or something lol, but anyway just wait till its evening, whats the ****ing point of taking G right after you woke up, just go behind your computer half sleepy checking some forum's, chill out a bit etc...

Using it this way i never noticed a tolerance, comedown or "rebound" (i beleive rebound is nonsense anyway and just the start of withdrawals).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I take it daily every evening, can easily consume 100ml in 2 weeks (this week went over that lol). I go to sleep once it wears off, the only rebound i notice is some mild tiredness wich is cool as i can get a good restfull night of sleep.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Anyways the lack of rebound may be unique to me but i am mentally addicted to G, however its no problem as i dont find it too hard to wait a few hours to take it, ppl have been warning il get addicted since 2008, but its very simple i never take any G at the morning or when i'm going to bed, thats just ASKING to get physically addicted.

Now i'm on a week break as i was too lazy to order again, trying selank at the moment.


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## 1L45TTRI (Feb 10, 2010)

Can someone help me out with this? Pm me plzzzz


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> Anesth Analg. 2007 Dec;105(6):1805-15.
> Pregabalin: its pharmacology and use in pain management.
> 
> Gajraj NM.
> ...


here, anyone getting a dopamine rebound pop a lyrica before sleep, it reduces dopamine release.
Because if you get a rebound and take more for sleep, your putting your *** into physical addiction.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Libertine said:


> do you even get good effects anymore crazymed? Its great combined with stims like mdpv, mephedrone and methylone. Also goes well with ketamine


I never really noticed a tolerance to G, but i also never noticed it abolishing my social anxiety or ever noticed a rebound, so my response to the drug could be called atypical.

I did however notice memantine potentiated the euphoric effects the last time i used it, wheter it works for tolerance dunno, as i dont have any tolerance with G.


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## Thorsten (Apr 6, 2010)

@Libertine

Hi if you don't mind I'd like to share my story of GBL use (I refer to it as GHB in this post - but yeah I was taking GBL) and what happened to me

Same with me mate just stay away from it. If you're at the stage of dosing 24/7 then it's all downhill from there I'm afraid. Even if you try to cut back you'll eventually slip back (Temptation is too great - your brain soon learns that this pleasure can be experienced any time of the day - time of day becomes irrelevant). 
There are some people who can control it (i.e, using responsinbily, keeping in mind at all times the risks of addiction, accepting that eventually you're going to come down so it's pointless redosing again and again, maintaining a level of awareness to the implications of your behaviour if you do slip into addiction). I'm fully envious of them because when G is your best friend you feel like a million bucks. 
If however, like me, you have it on hand and end up dosing at any given time of the day (usually consistently) then it becomes as natural as breathing. Ultimately it bites you on the backside and each time you go back to it, it owns you even more and bites you harder. I think when you get into the 'loosing everyone's respect' territory there's no way back. I lost many freinds and my own sense of dignity and self worth. Although I'll always love GHB I'll always remember it as the very thing that taught me some harsh lessons about my life. Using it in itself highlighted my awareness of my anhedonia (thought I just had anxiety and depression - didn't realise that the boredom with my own circumstances plays a big role into how I feel on a daily basis) and the reason I would even want to take something like GHB in the first place. On G I was a hypersexual maniac who constantly collapsed in public (freinds got really bored of this and me), harrassed women and lied to my freinds. Every time on the comedown this would impact negatively at work (people thinking I had gone really weird from the paranoid state I was in). I almost got the sack from my job on many occasions and it turned me into a blundering fool who couldn't do simple tasks. I wouldn't sleep for 3 days and this made me feel worse and worse and more delusional/weird. Some of the craziest closed eye visuals I'ver ever seen in my life came from withdrawing from this drug (I've done many mind bending drugs) and although that aspect of it was kind of enjoyable, the horrible comedown feeling was still there. I'm sure it was just the combination of my brain being fried and the lack of sleep that induced these weird visuals.
Anyway tackling my own anhedonia is something I can do without the use of a euphoriant (as fun as they may be). That doesn't mean to say I am against drugs or recreational substances because I do take them occasionally if I see value in them (mdma for the soul, amt for spiritual insight) but I stay the hell away from anything addictive like GBL, cocaine, crack, heroin,etc,etc. If i'm that much into getting high just for the sake of it I may as well doing something like crystal meth because that will give me the ultimate high. But thankfully I now see with great clarity the consequences of my actions. I went into my GHB period with my eyes open, educated on the risks and for a while I was flying high without a care in the world and life was real good. Then everything around me started to collapse I didn't even see it. When your high on G you become iblivious to stuff around you. My parents had known about my drug problem for the past year I recently discovered, I never knew this (I thought they didn't know at all).
It's strange because although GBL might not be addictive as in the same sense that heroin is - the mental addiction can be extreme and is fused by anhedonia in my opinion. If you're a reasonably happy indivudal with a strong freind network, then using G responsibly could be a real possibility (seeing it first thing in the morning will make you think ''Ah cool might do some more G next saturday night but I'm sure as hell not going to over do it and I'll never use it any more frequently than that - not ''ah cool might do some G now, even though its 9.45am, I can control this no probs''). That doesn't mean I would advocate its use though because some people (who are reasonably happy) are still prone to addiction issues. I just think those who have anhedonia are at extra risk with this drug.

@the rest of this thread

I know crazymed takes it and he doesn't feel he gets any negative consequences from his GBL use and I think that's cool. He's lucky. 

Sorry I know this post might seem a bit 'full on' for some people but i'm just another person who has been through and suffered G addiction. The real pain comes from losing my mates (well most of them). 
So when I read the ''where can i get this stuff'' I feel obliged to share what happened to me. The net is full of naive noobs who really don't understand the full picture. Maybe I should just let them get on with it and discover for themselves. But yeah there are plenty of other personal accounts all over the web related to G addiction and withdrawl. Only a small minority make it through and are able to use it responisbly. The vast majority of us end up hoplessley addicted to it because we love it so much. If you decide to go for it you'll be in for a ride that's for sure. Good luck.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

GHB can be addictive yes, i personally wouldnt be able to live without it, youll keep missing it, even after not using it for a year.

Thats the major catch, fortionally for me it has a ton of benefits and i'm able to take enough breaks to avoid physical addiction.


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## doze (Aug 9, 2010)

What benefits you get from GHB?
You sad you never noticed it abolishing your social anxiety.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

doze said:


> What benefits you get from GHB?
> You sad you never noticed it abolishing your social anxiety.


Euphoria.


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## donk (Aug 2, 2009)

I just about placed an order for gbl last night until I read some of you're experiences. I too have been addicted to gbl/ghb on two seperate occasions to the point where I became bed ridden. The euphoria I get is truly amazing. It's almost impossible to say no to it. If I got my order, which was to be a litre, I'm sure I'd be repeating history again. Anyone with addiction tendencies should take these warnings to heart.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

donk said:


> I just about placed an order for gbl last night until I read some of you're experiences. I too have been addicted to gbl/ghb on two seperate occasions to the point where I became bed ridden. The euphoria I get is truly amazing. It's almost impossible to say no to it. If I got my order, which was to be a litre, I'm sure I'd be repeating history again. Anyone with addiction tendencies should take these warnings to heart.


You can easily avoid addiction with GBL while taking it daily, just follow those 2 rules:
- Wait untill its evening before you take it
- NEVER NEVER take it before sleep.

Addiction is not worth it mate, just wait a few hours before you take it, been taking G on and off since 2008 and never got myself addicted.


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Complete addiction can be avoided. I took GBL for about 5 hours a day, every day for something like 5-6 months, and although I got a rebound each afternoon, I wasn't physically dependent (i.e. I could go through a few hours of rebound at the end of the G session and reach my normal mental state).

For background info, I am someone with severe anhedonia. I had the willpower to not be on it 24/7, as I read what happens if you do that, but I was mentally dependent on it and kept up the routine for a long time.

Side note: has anyone noticed lasting cognitive impairment after prolonged GHB/GBL use? Or other side effects worth mentioning.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Never noticed any long term effects, atleast there may be differences picked up in cognitive effects wich i dont notice myself.


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## donk (Aug 2, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> You can easily avoid addiction with GBL while taking it daily, just follow those 2 rules:
> - Wait untill its evening before you take it
> - NEVER NEVER take it before sleep.
> 
> Addiction is not worth it mate, just wait a few hours before you take it, been taking G on and off since 2008 and never got myself addicted.


I don't understand the second rule. if you take it at night, you're bound to fall asleep on it depending on doseage


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

donk said:


> I don't understand the second rule. if you take it at night, you're bound to fall asleep on it depending on doseage


The doses i take never make me sleepy but give me energy, i cant even sleep on them, i go asleep when they wear off, but falling asleep on it doesnt really matter as long you dont redose at night.


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## donk (Aug 2, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> The doses i take never make me sleepy but give me energy, i cant even sleep on them, i go asleep when they wear off, but falling asleep on it doesnt really matter as long you dont redose at night.


do you notice any differences between gbl and ghb? intensity of high or duration?

would you entertain a pm message with regards to suppliers? I know there are a number of suppliers that provide it legally to certain countries in Europe. Not so lucky in Canada however and some providers won't ship due to confiscation problems. I'm ok if customs grabs an order but I can't stand the thought of getting ripped off right from the start.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I prefer GBL as its more fasting acting and seems to be more energizing.

I only suppliers to ship to europe, i'm srry.


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## Banana Cream (Aug 22, 2010)

Be careful with this one. One time I tried it but it wasn't enough, so I tried a bit more... and I ended up doing some very embarrassing things publicly. Then I looked like I was going coma style so kept getting slapped. 

The other two times I remember- 1. Wasn't enough to notice, got headache. 2. Awesome. Just great. Very sensual, I ended up hugging someone in the frozen isle of a grocery store for a whole song... a song I find a 7 out of 10 most days, but that day it felt like a 10.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

GHB never changes my behavor, if i take to much i just feel terrible lol.


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## jasoncolins (Dec 23, 2010)

I buy GBL a few times and I've bought it from a Dutch/German supplier.
Which was recommended on a website.
only I am unfortunately concluded that all the site's is from the same owner.
and that no matter if you buy chinese or german/usa you get only chinese deliver.
I'm seriously disappointed.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

jasoncolins said:


> I buy GBL a few times and I've bought it from a Dutch/German supplier.
> Which was recommended on a website.
> only I am unfortunately concluded that all the site's is from the same owner.
> and that no matter if you buy chinese or german/usa you get only chinese deliver.
> I'm seriously disappointed.


Then you need to look a bit harder, that said the chinese GBL aint that bad.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

One of my doctors wanted to prescribe me this but my pharmacy told me its not available where I live so, iunno?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Dr House said:


> One of my doctors wanted to prescribe me this but my pharmacy told me its not available where I live so, iunno?


Try going to another pharmacy? Its not often prescribed so they may not be aware of xyrem.


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