# Low Testosterone Levels?



## Lovesick Loner

I just read an article in a respected medical magazine about the effects of low testosterone levels in men. Many of the symptoms seem very similar to the depression associated with SA -- chronic fatigue, low sex-drive, apathy, brain fog, lack of assertiveness, etc. I'm wondering if anyone knows of legitimate testosterone therapy ever being used for SA in men.

The article gives a very positive outlook on testosteron therapy, although, it mainly focuses on the physical energy, sex-drive, and cognitive focus parts. I've never been tested for testosterone levels , but I wouldn't be surprised if I had a low level of testosterone. I don't think i fit the accepted age demographic for diminished testosterone, but it would make sense to me. Eveyone with SA has some sort of hormone deficiency. Anybody know of a connection between Low-T and SA?


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## Lovesick Loner

I should add, the article was in "life extension" magazine, and it wasn't trying to sell their own testosterone pills or any money-making scam. It actually advised to stay away from pills, and to try and get a prescription treatment from your doctor using a special rub-on gel or bi-weekly injections.


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## UltraShy

No, I've never heard of testosterone being used to treat SA.

When I finally manage to haul my nervous self over to see my doc (an activity I hate) for a blood test (which I REALLY HATE) I'll get to see if my testosterone levels are low.

Based on my own symptoms and family history, I think there is reasonable cause to believe my levels are below normal.

The thought of rubbing on over-priced testosterone gel daily paid for out of pocket for the rest of my life doesn't exactly thrill me, but then I'm not too happy about my sex drive that packed up and left several years ago.


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## nemesis1

Lovesick Loner said:


> I just read an article in a respected medical magazine about the effects of low testosterone levels in men. Many of the symptoms seem very similar to the depression associated with SA -- chronic fatigue, low sex-drive, apathy, brain fog, lack of assertiveness, etc. I'm wondering if anyone knows of legitimate testosterone therapy ever being used for SA in men.
> 
> The article gives a very positive outlook on testosteron therapy, although, it mainly focuses on the physical energy, sex-drive, and cognitive focus parts. I've never been tested for testosterone levels , but I wouldn't be surprised if I had a low level of testosterone. I don't think i fit the accepted age demographic for diminished testosterone, but it would make sense to me. Eveyone with SA has some sort of hormone deficiency. Anybody know of a connection between Low-T and SA?


I was always under the impression that i would have low testosterone levels due to having the listed symptoms.......but ive had a few tests done and my doc assures me that my testosterone levels are fine.....:blank


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob

I got tested a while ago and my T is very low. Doc didnt want to put me on HRT, wanted to go a more natural root. I've heard T therapy can eventually be counter productive as it raises estrogen levels too.

I've always had most low T symptoms, especially a lack of body/facial hair. May give it a go down the road if all else fails.


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## Pr0n

The testosterone question came to my mind numerous times. But i can't get myself to go to doctor. They tend to be useless for this sort of things. Telling me there's no need to worry doesn't help at all.


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## Canadian4Life

Lovesick Loner said:


> I just read an article in a respected medical magazine about the effects of low testosterone levels in men. Many of the symptoms seem very similar to the depression associated with SA -- chronic fatigue, low sex-drive, apathy, brain fog, lack of assertiveness, etc. I'm wondering if anyone knows of legitimate testosterone therapy ever being used for SA in men.
> 
> The article gives a very positive outlook on testosteron therapy, although, it mainly focuses on the physical energy, sex-drive, and cognitive focus parts. I've never been tested for testosterone levels , but I wouldn't be surprised if I had a low level of testosterone. I don't think i fit the accepted age demographic for diminished testosterone, but it would make sense to me. Eveyone with SA has some sort of hormone deficiency. Anybody know of a connection between Low-T and SA?


Don't know of a connection but I take Zinc,Tribulus and another testosterone booster (natural) and they make me alot more confident in myself. I think thats why you feel less SA because it gives you self esteem and confidence.


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## FoCo

Lifting weights(especially heavy compound lifts like squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows) will boost your testosterone levels naturally.

I am absolutely convinced that I would be dead right now if I hadn't started lifting weights a couple years ago...


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## ju_pa

FoCo said:


> Lifting weights(especially heavy compound lifts like squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows) will boost your testosterone levels naturally.
> 
> I am absolutely convinced that I would be dead right now if I hadn't started lifting weights a couple years ago...


yes, do like FoCo said. Lifting weights increases testosterone production. Additionally to this, eating saturated fats, meat and vegetables high in Indole-3-carbinol like cabbage and broccoli.


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## LatchKeyKid

I seriously worry that my testosterone is low. My face isn't exactly chiseled (it's rather feminine) and I can't grow a proper beard. Add to that my man-tits and it's a disaster for the old self-esteem.

I'm gonna chat up my doctor about it soon. In the meantime, I'll give weights a try. But do they really do that much?


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## ju_pa

LatchKeyKid said:


> I seriously worry that my testosterone is low. My face isn't exactly chiseled (it's rather feminine) and I can't grow a proper beard. Add to that my man-tits and it's a disaster for the old self-esteem.
> 
> I'm gonna chat up my doctor about it soon. In the meantime, I'll give weights a try. But do they really do that much?


Lifting weights is the best way to boost your testosterone. Depends your body, you can double it.

Have you heard, onion juice increases T by 300%. You might want to add this too.


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## Giraffe

I found this AskMetafilter thread yesterday. One comment by someone who seems to know what he's talking about says that the "easiest" way to raise testosterone levels is to stop masturbating.


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## UltraShy

LatchKeyKid said:


> I seriously worry that my testosterone is low. My face isn't exactly chiseled (it's rather feminine) and I can't grow a proper beard. Add to that my *man-tits* and it's a disaster for the old self-esteem.


Actually, a testosterone supplement could result in that.

Quoted from an Androgel insert regarding possible side effects:

*"Enlarged or painful breasts."*

I didn't add the bolding -- it's printed in bold in the medication guide that comes with Androgel, so I gather they think that on the important side to bold it.

Yeah, I notice the irony too: male hormones potentially giving one full & painful womanly boobs like a gal with PMS.


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## ju_pa

Giraffe said:


> I found this AskMetafilter thread yesterday. One comment by someone who seems to know what he's talking about says that the "easiest" way to raise testosterone levels is to stop masturbating.


That's stupid. Sex has nothing to do with lowering testosterone. By the seventh day without sex male have T at their highest. From there it starts to drop. And sex does increase T too.


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## bahnhof

So celibacy should lower testosterone levels?



> By the seventh day without sex male have T at their highest. From there it starts to drop. And sex does increase T too.


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## Adaptive

bahnhof said:


> So celibacy should lower testosterone levels?


No, celibacy neither raises nor lowers testosterone. Celibacy will likely increase energy and motivation but that has nothing to do with testosterone.


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## ju_pa

Jimminy_Billy_Bob said:


> I got tested a while ago and my T is very low. Doc didnt want to put me on HRT, wanted to go a more natural root. I've heard T therapy can eventually be counter productive as it raises estrogen levels too.
> 
> I've always had most low T symptoms, especially a lack of body/facial hair. May give it a go down the road if all else fails.


Do you restrict yourself from saturated fats ?


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## Dan208

I've often wondering if I suffer from this as I seem to have every symptom listed above, with the exception of low sex drive. :blush


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## crayzyMed

Testosterone can be raised safely with 25mg clomid a day.


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## VanDamMan

Take a caffeine pill before you lift. Study out of NewZeland confirms caffeine before lifting increases T. Coffee wont do for some reason. Only manufactured caffeine pills and gum.


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## js367124

testosterone is one of the controls on norepinephrine signaling. Norepinephrine = stress


Iv gotten testosterone checked several times and it always comes in at the low end of the range. Usually in the 400s and for my age ( 19) sould be more like 650-900. 


If you have balanced your brain chemistry and still have problems with how you feel look into hormones. 

Also having your doctor say your levels is fine is horse ****. Doctors will tell you your fine when your Testosterone is 301 and tell you your out of range when your levels are 299 ( most T ranges are 300-850)


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## robertz

js367124 said:


> If you have balanced your brain chemistry and still have problems with how you feel look into hormones.


You can't have a balanced brain chemistry until you balance your hormones, because hormones control brain chemistry (among other things).

Psychiatry is quackery.


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## davis23

Apparently one can achieve hormonal balance with the tongkat ali herb. It raises testosterone. Has anybody tried it for psychiatric issues.


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## screwedup

i thort brain chemistry controls ur hormones?


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## FairleighCalm

I had ablood test a couple years ago and was low T. I ate meat and took extra zinc. They are back to normal now. I'm not eating any meat but i rock the zinc daily.


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## rickthegreat

nemesis1 said:


> I was always under the impression that i would have low testosterone levels due to having the listed symptoms.......but ive had a few tests done and my doc assures me that my testosterone levels are fine.....:blank





js367124 said:


> ...Also having your doctor say your levels is fine is horse ****. Doctors will tell you your fine when your Testosterone is 301 and tell you your out of range when your levels are 299 ( most T ranges are 300-850)


Yeah I'm not sure I trust general practitioners. But you can Google low-T and find the drug company. They have links to friendly doctors who, em, I guess understand the plight of low-T people. Another thing is to get it tested yourself. You can google blood tests and there are 2 or 3 companies that specialize in helping people test lots of things. This is good if your GP keeps blowing you off. They will send the results to your doctor and also maybe to you, but either way your doc will have to take a look. I've never done it, I'm not sure if you go to a place like for employment drug testing or if you mail in a vial (for testosterone, they mostly use saliva I think).


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## Rap

Begin exercising, stop consuming soy products, and start eating foods that boost your testosterone. 

For more information, you can look up the topic at mercola.com, an amazing all natural holistic health/nutrition site that can help with issues such as this.


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## uffie

stop reading, start doing push ups


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## proximo20

I once read that visceral fat affects testosterone and estrogen levels for men. Lose your belly, but don't starve yourself. That's bad too.


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## InThe519

LatchKeyKid said:


> I seriously worry that my testosterone is low. My face isn't exactly chiseled (it's rather feminine) and I can't grow a proper beard. Add to that my man-tits and it's a disaster for the old self-esteem.
> 
> I'm gonna chat up my doctor about it soon. In the meantime, I'll give weights a try. But do they really do that much?


You should seriously go get your labs (blood work) done. I just got all my labs done and will go in for results next week.

I had my testosterone checked too.

Diet and exercise is the way to go and definitely weight training.


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## proximo20

Ok I found the article.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/002604959090297P

Visceral fat accumulation in men is positively associated with insulin, glucose, and C-peptide levels, but negatively with testosterone levels


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## davis23

Testosterone modulation

An interesting recent medical study has come to the conclusion that all successful treatments of erectile dysfunction result in increased testosterone levels.

The study under the title "Lack of sexual activity from erectile dysfunction is associated with a reversible reduction in serum testosterone" was authored by EA Jannini et al. at the Department of Experimental Medicine, University of L'Aquila, Italy. In their abstract, they reported:

The role of androgenic hormones in human sexuality, in the mechanism of erection and in the pathogenesis of impotence is under debate. While the use of testosterone is common in the clinical therapy of male erectile dysfunction, hypogonadism is a rare cause of impotence. We evaluated serum testosterone levels in men with erectile dysfunction resulting either from organic or non-organic causes before and after non-hormonal impotence therapy. Eighty-three consecutive cases of impotence (70% organic, 30% non-organic, vascular aetiology [etiology; the set of factors that contributes to the occurrence of a disease; red] being the most frequent) were subjected to hormonal screening before and after various psychological, medical (prostaglandin E1, yohimbine) or mechanical therapies (vascular surgery, penile prostheses, vacuum devices). Thirty age-matched healthy men served as a control group. Compared to controls, patients with impotence resulting from both organic and non-organic causes showed reduced serum levels of both total testosterone (11.1 +/- 2.4 vs. 17.7 +/- 5.5 nmol/L) and free testosterone (56.2 +/- 22.9 vs. 79.4 +/- 27.0 pmol/L) (both p < 0.001). Irrespective of the different aetiologies and of the various impotence therapies, a dramatic increase in serum total and free testosterone levels (15.6 +/- 4.2 nmol/L and 73.8 +/- 22.5 pmol/L, respectively) was observed in patients who achieved normal sexual activity 3 months after commencing therapy (p < 0.001). On the contrary, serum testosterone levels did not change in patients in whom therapies were ineffective. Since the pre-therapy low testosterone levels were independent of the aetiology of impotence, we hypothesize that this hormonal pattern is related to the loss of sexual activity, as demonstrated by its normalization with the resumption of coital activity after different therapies. The corollary is that sexual activity may feed itself throughout the increase in testosterone levels."

Note: mol is the basic International System unit of amount of substance equal to the amount containing the same number of elementary units as the number of atoms in 12 grams of carbon-12. Symbol mol. Also called gram molecule; nmol = nanomol; nano- = one billionth (10 -9); pmol = picomol, pico- = one trillionth (10 -12)

What's interesting about this result is the reversed correlation. Usually, people think that they first need the testosterone, and than have more sex. But to have more sex, according to the above-cited study, is what surely leads to higher testosterone levels. What's first, the egg or the hen.

Low, or at least very low, testosterone levels clearly will lead to decreased libido and erectile dysfunction. Hypogonadal men are an obvious proof.

However, hypogonadism is definitely not the only possible cause of erectile dysfunction. More often, so says conventional medical wisdom, the cause is vascular.

The treatment of erectile dysfunction with testosterone, however, is usually not successful.

A "not successful" result is something quite common for all singular erectile dysfunction treatments... in medical, scientific studies as well as in personal experiments (not only of this author).

Isn't it quite obvious that a combination strategy should be applied?

For philosophical reasons, this web site advocates a hypersexual lifestyle. It's the only state of being worth living in. We advocate a frame of mind, characterized by daily being overtaken by sexual fantasies so strong that they result in spontaneous erections, even orgasms.

Sildenafil (Viagra) alone doesn't achieve this. Yohimbine as well as some Parkinson's Disease medications such as bromocriptine come a bit closer to the desired effect.

But with Yohimbine, too, you can't force the issue (or should we say: the tissue ... the corpus cavernosum tissue, this is). Or, you can, but only to a certain extend.

We would like to be as hypersexual as the perpetuators of sex crimes, minus the criminal inclination.

It has been proven in numerous scientific studies that chemical castration works in suppressing criminal tendencies in sex offenders. Such chemical castration entirely works on a hormonal pathway, by suppressing testosterone.

Reported the Washington Post on March 23, 1998: "An Israeli study recently published in the New England Journal of Medicine reports that a new treatment is highly effective in men with long-standing deviant sexual behavior.

"Thirty men with paraphilia (ranging in age from 24 to 40) were treated with monthly injections of triptorelin, a long-acting drug that blocks the action of gonadotropin-releasing hormone. That is a messenger chemical from the brain that normally stimulates the pituitary gland to release other hormones that control the function of sex organs such as the testes and ovaries.

"Triptorelin treatment produced a dramatic drop in the men's testosterone levels. All of the men reported a reduction in deviant sexual fantasies and desires, from a mean of 48 per week before treatment to zero during treatment. Similarly, incidents of abnormal sexual behavior decreased from a mean of five per month to zero.

"Triptorelin did produce significant side effects. Bone-mineral density decreased in 11 of 18 men in whom it was measured. The treatment causes temporary infertility and shrinkage of the testes. Many men reported difficulty with erections and lack of sexual interest, and some had hot flashes, decreased facial hair and muscle weakness or tenderness."

There has been ample testifying by offenders that reducing testosterone levels diminishes compulsory sexual ideas. The following is quoted from an essay by Michael Ross, a death-row inmate convicted for the murder of several women:

"As you might expect, I have been examined by many psychiatric experts since my arrest in 1984. All of them, including the state' s own expert psychiatric witness, diagnosed me as suffering from a paraphiliac mental disorder called 'sexual sadism,' which, in the experts' words, resulted in my compulsion 'to perpetrate violent sexual activity in a repetitive way.'

The urge to hurt women could come over me at any time, at any place. Powerful, sometimes irresistible desires would well up for no apparent reason and with no warning. Even after my arrest -- while I was facing capital charges -- these urges continued.

"I eventually found some relief. Almost three years after I came to death row, I started to receive weekly injections of an anti-androgen medication called Depo-Provera. Three years later, after some liver function trouble, I was switched to monthly Depo-Lupron injections, which I still receive. What these drugs did was significantly reduce my body' s natural production of the male sex hormone -- testosterone. For some reason, testosterone affects my mind differently than it does the average male. A few months after I started the treatment, my blood serum testosterone dropped below prepubescent levels. (It' s currently 20; the normal range is 260 to 1,250.) As this happened, nothing less than a miracle occurred. My obsessive thoughts and fantasies began to diminish."

The correlation of increased testosterone levels and sexual thoughts is clear.

So, why has testosterone replacement therapy often been shown to be not effective in restoring sexual function? There are a number of possible reasons.

For example the design of the studies. If the cause of erectile dysfunction is purely vascular, and if the measured effects are just related to cavernosal tissue, not much can indeed be expected.

There is, furthermore, the possibility that the dosage used was just not big enough. The most common test for testosterone is one for plasma testosterone. It measures the presence of testosterone in blood.


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## mark555666

Lift some weights, take some zinc.


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## ForeverStallone

Good website with tips on increasing testosterone naturally 
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/How-To-Increase-Testosterone-Naturally.aspx


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## Zeeshan

I 100 Percent believe that most guys SA is related to low Testosterone Levels

but what can you do. I have never had mine tested,


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## The Professor

Zeeshan said:


> I 100 Percent believe that most guys SA is related to low Testosterone Levels
> 
> but what can you do. I have never had mine tested,


Do you base this on any evidence?

It seems to me that SA and testosterone are two completely different issues. I have often thought about the problem (SA) had to do with low T, but then I remind myself the problem is in my brain, not my balls. I think we get frustrated and a way to justify our lack of assertiveness, fear of women, etc. is thinking something is wrong with our manliness. I think it is the other way around though: SA _causes_ (what we think to be) lack of manliess.

Girls have SA too and I guess you could say that they have REALLY low T, but there are also girls who don't have SA who have REALLY low T. SA was most likely caused by experiences we have had in our lives that have affected the brain, not testosterone. So low T cannot be the underlying problem for SA

However, I don't doubt that increasing testosterone can help with the symptoms of SA. In fact, I'll probably be buying some supps for that tomorrow. (maybe tongkat ali, tribulis, horny goat weed???)

What I'm saying is all from my own head so if you can prove me wrong please do.


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## Cornerstone

Im also like this. Almost no beard growth. If I do succeed to come off as macho, its mimicry. Lower sex drive than usual. I had it tested, had a relatively though not extremely low level of testosterone>


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## Zeeshan

The Professor said:


> Do you base this on any evidence?
> 
> It seems to me that SA and testosterone are two completely different issues. I have often thought about the problem (SA) had to do with low T, but then I remind myself the problem is in my brain, not my balls. I think we get frustrated and a way to justify our lack of assertiveness, fear of women, etc. is thinking something is wrong with our manliness. I think it is the other way around though: SA _causes_ (what we think to be) lack of manliess.
> 
> Girls have SA too and I guess you could say that they have REALLY low T, but there are also girls who don't have SA who have REALLY low T. SA was most likely caused by experiences we have had in our lives that have affected the brain, not testosterone. So low T cannot be the underlying problem for SA
> 
> However, I don't doubt that increasing testosterone can help with the symptoms of SA. In fact, I'll probably be buying some supps for that tomorrow. (maybe tongkat ali, tribulis, horny goat weed???)
> 
> What I'm saying is all from my own head so if you can prove me wrong please do.


Thats why i said I Believe, because its not factual. Its my belief and i base it on observing the world. Women may have the same problem regarding estrogen. Rememmber Testerterone is just a marker, more likely high T levels also mean stronger brain chemistry. So if you say the problem is in your brain, you are missing the point that Low T levels like correlate with a brain chemistry that is prone to social anxiety. Where as High T levels prob work the other way around.

As for women, perhaps Estrogen can be used.

By the way, all those supplements are useless


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## The Professor

Zeeshan said:


> Thats why i said I Believe, because its not factual. Its my belief and i base it on observing the world. Women may have the same problem regarding estrogen. Rememmber Testerterone is just a marker, more likely high T levels also mean stronger brain chemistry. So if you say the problem is in your brain, you are missing the point that Low T levels like correlate with a brain chemistry that is prone to social anxiety. Where as High T levels prob work the other way around.
> 
> As for women, perhaps Estrogen can be used.
> 
> By the way, all those supplements are useless


I know I'm asking if you can find any evidence to back up your beliefs so I can read it and expand my knowledge. Idk if you're saying that low T is what CAUSES SA or if increasing T can help with SA... if it's the second one then I agree.

Do you have any evidence showing that supplements are useless? Because I believe a few of them have been proven.


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## ForeverStallone

Zeeshan said:


> I 100 Percent believe that most guys SA is related to low Testosterone Levels
> 
> but what can you do. I have never had mine tested,


Just got mine tested. It's just above the accepted normal range, which is ridiculous since not even 60 year olds are this low. Time for cell tech


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## Umirin

You need Test-e brahs peace. out.


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## Plokoon111

I tested this theory out today. I already life heavy/ workout, eat good fats, nuts, play drums (cardio exercise) and my sex drive/feeling is pretty blah. I have a few days where its awesome, but mostly its in the grey area. Now mind you I am skinny, fast metabolism.

I took this T booster today, and an hour later I felt productive. My senses felt different, almost foreign, I was optimistic, no bad thoughts, energetic. I wasn't tired at all. Usually I wake up and I'm slow doing things, and putting off. But not today. Can't wait to see if these results continue.


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## Nibbler

i tried a natural testboster formula to get my sex life back on track as have problems in that department thanks to the high does of venelafaxine there ain't much happening or desire 

briefly for the 3 or weeks i took it i was loving it defiantly felt more motivated and confident not sure if it was placebo effect but defiantly made a difference in the bedroom it was like being a randy teen ha ha only side effect is i was getting a bit to irritable or at least i though i was and that was giving me panic attacks(stupid i know)so stopped. I understand testosterome controls libido but just want my sex drive back!! also why or how does venelafaxine effect libido is it by lowering testosterone? they didnt think that one thru did they!!


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## lightsout

Lovesick Loner said:


> I just read an article in a respected medical magazine about the effects of low testosterone levels in men. Many of the symptoms seem very similar to the depression associated with SA -- chronic fatigue, low sex-drive, apathy, brain fog, lack of assertiveness, etc.


I've always been under the impression it's more of depression (granted, often associated w/SA) causing the low sex-drive. Personally, at least, I've had stronger period of anxiety & still had the 'ole SD "alive & kicking", but when I'm pretty depressed, not so much.


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## iBlaze

I've never had my testosterone tested, but I can put a bet on it that mine is low.

I think I may pick up a Zinc supplement. I show some signs of deficiency...and I'm going to test and see if taking a supplement helps me out any. I have random white spots on a couple of my nails, and I have vertical lines on my nails. I also have stretch marks on my skin where there really shouldn't be any, like my upper arms. My arms aren't even really all that fat.

Edit: After doing a little bit more research, I'm definitely picking up a zinc supplement. Apparently, a male orgasm releases about 1/3 of the amount of your daily required zinc. I wank more than the average joe, and I have a poor diet, so I'm thinking a zinc deficiency may be my problem.


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## scarpia

Low levels of testosterone in older men is associated with the onset of Alzheimer's disease. That is my major concern. Both my father and grandfather had alzheimers'


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## jonny neurotic

robertz said:


> You can't have a balanced brain chemistry until you balance your hormones, because hormones control brain chemistry (among other things).
> 
> Psychiatry is quackery.


It is not just a one way stream. Your state of mind effects your hormones. You might as well say that any form of medicine that does not take the whole into consideration is quackery. I would be inclined to agree with that. I am not generally a fan of psychiatry, but anti-psychiatry scares me.

On testosterone; A couple of people have comented that they have little facial hair. This is not necessarily a sign of low test. Native Americans have no facial hair, not because they lack testosterone but because they lack(or at least lack sufficient numbers of) androgen receptors on their hair follicles. Same reason they don't go bald. I have little facial hair growth but I am quite masculine in every other respect. Perhaps I would be more masculine if I didn't have SA. IDK.

Low test may be a cause but it may also be a symptom of SA. I am sure men who have a drop in test would feel unwell but what is to say that some guys don't function with lower serum test than so called "normal". I would be interested to see more data on this. Interestingly dopamine increases testosterone. So perhaps low test is a symptom rather than a cause. I have seen evidence for frontal lobe underactivity as a cause of SA. Which would explain why SA is a common co-morbidity with ADHD.

A word to the wise in regards to heavy weight lifting. Be very careful. I know that goes without saying but those of us with self esteem issues tend also to have poor posture. Proud confident people stand upright with just the right amount of muscular tension to maintain their posture. Anxious people may have excess tension in their shoulders and neck, and people who don't want to attract attention to themselves will tend to slouch and walk with their head dipped forward. If you add heavy weight lifting to ingrained postural defects the result can be painful. *EXTREMELY* painful. I am speaking from experience. Best to wade in gently and do *lots* of postural exercises.


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## js367124

My test levels were low to low normal. Finally took the plunge and went on TRT about 8 months ago.

I realized many quick benefits to TRT such as powerful more frequent erections , more morning wood, signficant increases in my weightlifting, signficant increase in recovery , slightly more energy etc etc. 

But like I said those are all short term benefits that happen very quikcly for me.

THe huge mental benefits dont really start to present themselves till a few months later. 

So much more confident at work, school, around women ( ****ing my 23 year old boss no lie). So much more agresive both in daily life ( your not cutting me *******) and in sexual situations.

Has not completly cured my depresion but thats related to my low dopamine and serotonin. Has however helped markedly with my anxiety which is primarily driven by norepinephrinel.

I highly suggest many of you look into HRT not just TRT. cortisol, pregenenolone , DHEA, testosterone, estrodial, progesterone,thyroid all have a tremedous affect on our well being and brain chemistry.

Optimizing your hormones like I did ( i also fixed my adrenals and hypothyroid) probably wont completly cure your SA since SA is almost defiently driven primarily by neurotransmitter imbalances but it can help alot. 

A good place to get educated is at allthingsmale musclechatroom which is the HRT forum run by Dr. Chrisler.


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## millenniumman75

iBlaze said:


> I've never had my testosterone tested, but I can put a bet on it that mine is low.
> 
> I think I may pick up a Zinc supplement. I show some signs of deficiency...and I'm going to test and see if taking a supplement helps me out any. I have random white spots on a couple of my nails, and I have vertical lines on my nails. I also have stretch marks on my skin where there really shouldn't be any, like my upper arms. My arms aren't even really all that fat.
> 
> Edit: After doing a little bit more research, I'm definitely picking up a zinc supplement. Apparently, a male orgasm releases about 1/3 of the amount of your daily required zinc. I wank more than the average joe, and I have a poor diet, so I'm thinking a zinc deficiency may be my problem.


 I was always told a good indicator of lack of zinc is horizontal white lines in your fingernails. :stu


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## Kage

jonny neurotic said:


> It is not just a one way stream. Your state of mind effects your hormones. You might as well say that any form of medicine that does not take the whole into consideration is quackery. I would be inclined to agree with that. I am not generally a fan of psychiatry, but anti-psychiatry scares me.
> 
> On testosterone; A couple of people have comented that they have little facial hair. This is not necessarily a sign of low test. Native Americans have no facial hair, not because they lack testosterone but because they lack(or at least lack sufficient numbers of) androgen receptors on their hair follicles. Same reason they don't go bald. I have little facial hair growth but I am quite masculine in every other respect. Perhaps I would be more masculine if I didn't have SA. IDK.
> 
> Low test may be a cause but it may also be a symptom of SA. I am sure men who have a drop in test would feel unwell but what is to say that some guys don't function with lower serum test than so called "normal". I would be interested to see more data on this. Interestingly dopamine increases testosterone. So perhaps low test is a symptom rather than a cause. I have seen evidence for frontal lobe underactivity as a cause of SA. Which would explain why SA is a common co-morbidity with ADHD.
> 
> A word to the wise in regards to heavy weight lifting. Be very careful. I know that goes without saying but those of us with self esteem issues tend also to have poor posture. Proud confident people stand upright with just the right amount of muscular tension to maintain their posture. Anxious people may have excess tension in their shoulders and neck, and people who don't want to attract attention to themselves will tend to slouch and walk with their head dipped forward. If you add heavy weight lifting to ingrained postural defects the result can be painful. *EXTREMELY* painful. I am speaking from experience. Best to wade in gently and do *lots* of postural exercises.


Good post.


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## mcmuffinme

> THe huge mental benefits dont really start to present themselves till a few months later.


I took neuropsych, and I remember that men with average to lower levels of testosterone are more intelligent than their peers with higher levels. Just thought you should know.


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## ForeverStallone

js367124 said:


> My test levels were low to low normal. Finally took the plunge and went on TRT about 8 months ago.
> 
> I realized many quick benefits to TRT such as powerful more frequent erections , more morning wood, signficant increases in my weightlifting, signficant increase in recovery , slightly more energy etc etc.
> 
> But like I said those are all short term benefits that happen very quikcly for me.
> 
> THe huge mental benefits dont really start to present themselves till a few months later.
> 
> So much more confident at work, school, around women ( ****ing my 23 year old boss no lie). So much more agresive both in daily life ( your not cutting me *******) and in sexual situations.
> 
> Has not completly cured my depresion but thats related to my low dopamine and serotonin. Has however helped markedly with my anxiety which is primarily driven by norepinephrinel.
> 
> I highly suggest many of you look into HRT not just TRT. cortisol, pregenenolone , DHEA, testosterone, estrodial, progesterone,thyroid all have a tremedous affect on our well being and brain chemistry.
> 
> Optimizing your hormones like I did ( i also fixed my adrenals and hypothyroid) probably wont completly cure your SA since SA is almost defiently driven primarily by neurotransmitter imbalances but it can help alot.
> 
> A good place to get educated is at allthingsmale musclechatroom which is the HRT forum run by Dr. Chrisler.


Mind posting what your Test and TSH numbers were before TRT?


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## Petrovsk Mizinski

ForeverStallone said:


> Mind posting what your Test and TSH numbers were before TRT?


This.
In fact, js367124, post up all the bloodwork you got done if you got tested for more stuff.

Edit : Stallone, post your bloods if you got 'em


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## jonny neurotic

js367124 said:


> My test levels were low to low normal. Finally took the plunge and went on TRT about 8 months ago.
> 
> I realized many quick benefits to TRT such as powerful more frequent erections , more morning wood, signficant increases in my weightlifting, signficant increase in recovery , slightly more energy etc etc.
> 
> But like I said those are all short term benefits that happen very quikcly for me.
> 
> THe huge mental benefits dont really start to present themselves till a few months later.
> 
> So much more confident at work, school, around women ( ****ing my 23 year old boss no lie). So much more agresive both in daily life ( your not cutting me *******) and in sexual situations.
> 
> Has not completly cured my depresion but thats related to my low dopamine and serotonin. Has however helped markedly with my anxiety which is primarily driven by norepinephrinel.
> 
> I highly suggest many of you look into HRT not just TRT. cortisol, pregenenolone , DHEA, testosterone, estrodial, progesterone,thyroid all have a tremedous affect on our well being and brain chemistry.
> 
> Optimizing your hormones like I did ( i also fixed my adrenals and hypothyroid) probably wont completly cure your SA since SA is almost defiently driven primarily by neurotransmitter imbalances but it can help alot.
> 
> A good place to get educated is at allthingsmale musclechatroom which is the HRT forum run by Dr. Chrisler.


By TRT you mean injecting testosterone? I need not mention how dangerous that is long term and how counterproductive it can be for depression/anxiety issues.

I am also concerned that you talk of depression in terms of low dopamine and serotonin. Yes, boosting these two neurotransmitters in equal measure will certainly put a smile on your face but far better it would be to figure out why you are depressed in the first place. Although ADHD and, for the most part, SA is caused by an innate imbalance only the most extreme cases of major depression have a significant endogenous component.

I am interested in neurosteroids and but test is not a neurosteroid and I would not consider injecting it to be a very sensible starting point for anything other than body building, in which case I'd take an aromatase inhibitor to prevent gyno. But too little oestrogen can adversly effect your mood. Infact I'd question whether it is the increased in oestrogen that is improving your mood. And who is this Dr. Chrisler and what is he selling? And why are you talking about thyroid function. Jeezis! Have you thought *any* of this through?

*EDIT: *On Dr. Crisler; http://scienceblogs.com/whitecoatunderground/2010/01/dr_crisler_i_fear_for_your_med.php


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## ForeverStallone

Petrovsk Mizinski said:


> This.
> In fact, js367124, post up all the bloodwork you got done if you got tested for more stuff.
> 
> Edit : Stallone, post your bloods if you got 'em


Total test was 9.7 nmol/L (280ng/dl) range 12-32
SHBG - 12 nmol/L, range 10-73
TSH - 3.5, range 0.4-3.5

Second test was 9.5 total T
TSH 3.9

That's low T and possible hypothyroidism

Got some other BW, don't wanna post em here


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## Gryffindor85

I kind of think low testosterone may be part of my problem, but I have an extremely high sex drive, I'm horny all the time, so I don't know.


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD

js367124 said:


> Has not completly cured my depresion but thats related to my low dopamine and serotonin. Has however helped markedly with my anxiety which is primarily driven by norepinephrinel.


cardio 1st thing in the morning anywhere longer than 30 minutes will balance out serotonin & dopamine as well as all of your nuerotransmitters over a short period of time.


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## MindOverMood

js367124 said:


> My test levels were low to low normal. Finally took the plunge and went on TRT about 8 months ago.
> 
> I realized many quick benefits to TRT such as powerful more frequent erections , more morning wood, signficant increases in my weightlifting, signficant increase in recovery , slightly more energy etc etc.
> 
> But like I said those are all short term benefits that happen very quikcly for me.
> 
> THe huge mental benefits dont really start to present themselves till a few months later.
> 
> So much more confident at work, school, around women ( ****ing my 23 year old boss no lie). So much more agresive both in daily life ( your not cutting me *******) and in sexual situations.
> 
> Has not completly cured my depresion but thats related to my low dopamine and serotonin. Has however helped markedly with my anxiety which is primarily driven by norepinephrinel.
> 
> I highly suggest many of you look into HRT not just TRT. cortisol, pregenenolone , DHEA, testosterone, estrodial, progesterone,thyroid all have a tremedous affect on our well being and brain chemistry.
> 
> Optimizing your hormones like I did ( i also fixed my adrenals and hypothyroid) probably wont completly cure your SA since SA is almost defiently driven primarily by neurotransmitter imbalances but it can help alot.
> 
> A good place to get educated is at allthingsmale musclechatroom which is the HRT forum run by Dr. Chrisler.


How did you go about doing this? Just phone and ask to get your testosterone levels checked:?


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## Dr Hobo Scratch MD

i believe strongly in living in accordance to our biology. often its when we dont do so that problems occur. with testosterone i read that one of the ways to increase it was to work along with your bodies natural way of creating it. iam not an expert in hormones so nobody jump on my back. a few years back i tried out a workout supplement called gamma o which i heard was horrible in its effectiveness. but i a company came along after creating a version of it thats suitable for humans,since it was used mostly for putting muscle mass on horses. i heard mixed reviews on it. the people who worked out back in the early 90's when it was first introduced in pill form saying it was a waste of money. then on the other side people preaching about its effectivness in a new liquid better absorbed state. its just called gamma o. i buy my supplements from this place.

http://www.a1supplements.com/Gamma-O-120-Liqui-Caps-p-16572.html

as one to at least try something out instead of listening to negative reviews i tried it out. they make two versions of it. one for athletes and one for people who dont workout. i dont know about the pill form of it. i only took the liquid version. it takes about 30 days before you can feel anything. i only tried it out for a month but always meant to go at it for a longer period then get my test readings. i might start this up again soon maybe this month. all i can say is at towards the end of that first month i had alot of energy and i broke guinness records in personnel "me time" spent during a day.


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## TexasMedicine

ForeverStallone said:


> Good website with tips on increasing testosterone naturally
> http://www.peaktestosterone.com/How-To-Increase-Testosterone-Naturally.aspx


Quote from that article:


> CAUTION: Negative attitudes and mental states, such as Depression and Stress, have been shown in studies to whack testosterone. I would go so far as to say that if you want to neuter yourself, just wake up each morning with a "I'm a worm" attitude. For example, one 1999 study showed that depression not only whacked nighttime and 24-hour testosterone levels but, just as bad, raised cortisol by 68%! [1] (Cortisol and depression will destroy your brain. For more information, read about these effects on the Brain.)


Ouch, that's totally my attitude, and I do have low T. I had a blood test two years ago that said I was in the 'normal range' according to the GP, then I showed the results to a naturopath that said it's on the very low end of a normal range, and not right. Tried numerous supps, including zinc and DHEA, no effect (as usual). If only I could fix my attitude..

Then there's this article as well, it all fits: http://lesswrong.com/lw/84i/social_status_testosterone/


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## TexasMedicine

One thing though, what does this mean for women who have the same characteristics - low motivation, stress, anxiety etc? Do they have lower than required levels of T as well?


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## NateDEEzy

TexasMedicine said:


> One thing though, what does this mean for women who have the same characteristics - low motivation, stress, anxiety etc? Do they have lower than required levels of T as well?


Could be. Females also have testosterone just as men also have estrogen. Admittedly I don't know much about testosterone in women, I have come across women who use testosterone with pleasant benefits.

What was your testosterone level when you had it measured?

Are you seeking treatment for your low levels, if so, what type of treatment?


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## FairleighCalm

I used to suffer from Low T and cleaning up my diet to heal my gut and digestive track and eating clean protein took care of it.


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## Zeeshan

mcmuffinme said:


> I took neuropsych, and I remember that men with average to lower levels of testosterone are more intelligent than their peers with higher levels. Just thought you should know.


Thanks I'd rather have the high t levels


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## NateDEEzy

FairleighCalm said:


> I used to suffer from Low T and cleaning up my diet to heal my gut and digestive track and eating clean protein took care of it.


Good to hear !

I am very curious what your testosterone level was before you started eating right and what it is now that you have changed your eating habits?

I am curious how much a diet change can impact testosterone levels.


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## ryobi

you can fix low testosterone by eating lots of protein-like cottage cheese, eating healthy fats like walnuts and eating fruits and vegetables abstain from sugar and other simple carbohydrates-like white bread and abstain from triglycerides-like butter


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## NateDEEzy

ryobi said:


> you can fix low testosterone by eating lots of protein-like cottage cheese, eating healthy fats like walnuts and eating fruits and vegetables abstain from sugar and other simple carbohydrates-like white bread and abstain from triglycerides-like butter


As much as this sounds good, I'm not sure it is able to produce drastic changes to T levels. If you think about it, low testosterone is due to damage done to the areas of the body that produce testosterone, which is primarily either the testes or the pituitary (which sends the signal to the testes to produce testosterone). Diet is good and can help, but unless you are able to completely eliminate ingesting or being exposed to environmental estrogens, which is pretty much impossible in today's world, you will always be exposed to components that act directly against what you are trying to remedy through diet. Additionally, if your low T is caused by something outside diet, you can eat whatever you want, it's not gonna fix it. That would be like saying people who genetically have impaired vision would be able to fix this through diet. Yes diet can help raise T a little, but the little amount it can raise isn't going to produce substantial results. You wouldn't tell someone with diabetes to simply eat a specific diet to remedy their situation. Yes a diet specific to helping diabetes can probably help some, but it's not enough in and of itself to remedy the situation.


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## Noca

lightsout said:


> I've always been under the impression it's more of depression (granted, often associated w/SA) causing the low sex-drive. Personally, at least, I've had stronger period of anxiety & still had the 'ole SD "alive & kicking", but when I'm pretty depressed, not so much.


Depression causes low testosterone which in turn causes depression which in turn causes low testosterone and so on.


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## ryobi

Lift weights and lift heavy and if you're an adult have lots of sex Dr's orders!


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## Zeeshan

ShyViolet said:


> Happiness is the most important to me.


I don't know if anyone here is fimilar with Amy cuddy but YouTube her


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## surveywords

hi, don't be afraid , i want you to read this articles before and i will wait you to give me your opinion ok here


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## telboyo

just joined the forum and interesting to read about low testosterone.

Being a male at age 64, it is widely recognised that Test can reduce as men get older. that being said it doesnt always happen.
For some long time now I have had all of the symptoms that i came to realise could be down to low test, including the most obvious of erectile dys, as well as little interest in sex.
grouping all of my symptoms together and googling them, the common thread in the results was low testosterone.
as I was not in Uk at the time, I went along to a blood test lab and asked for a test blood test, along with estrogen, and a few others that appeared to be desirable to know.
the result came back showing that out of a lab range of 9-32, I was at 10, plus my estrogen level was in the higher than normal range.
this prompted me to investigate further, and as some people on here have said, the normal GP in UK is not very interested at all, unless you present at age 25 with erectile dysf. If you are make over the age of 50 they will just say that any symptoms are anything but low T.
When I got back I did go to my GP, who very reluctanly sent me for a test blood test, the result came back at 11, again very low. But being within the range laid down, there was nothing that would be done.
It is considered by many, that as we are not all the same, for someone to be close to either top of bottom of any range is worthy of further investigation, but a hard strapped NHS is not gonna do that.
The easiest thing is to have a blood test and either rule it in or out. It could then be up to the individual to assess the situation, and etehr go for private treatment or do nothing. Testosterone drugs are not very expensive and might make a big difference.
As far as I know the other item that should be checked before embarking on any testosterone treatment is to have a prostrate check done, that is most important, as it s thought that high testosterone might cause prostrate cancer, others however say its exactly the opposite !!!!! 
I am waiting until i go back overseas and then will get my private GP to inject sustanon, which costs 3.50 euros a shot from the chemist !!!
Try getting that in UK on NHS !!!!


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## reely

I have low T and have supplements t with shots and I felt incredible.. Just didn't want to stay on it the rest of my life... Anxiety was completely gone..


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## Zeeshan

reely said:


> I have low T and have supplements t with shots and I felt incredible.. Just didn't want to stay on it the rest of my life... Anxiety was completely gone..


Why didn't you want it forever?


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## ForeverStallone

reely said:


> I have low T and have supplements t with shots and I felt incredible.. Just didn't want to stay on it the rest of my life... Anxiety was completely gone..


The T shots aren't a supplement, they replace your testosterone completely because your natural production shuts down.

Why would you go off it if you're deficient? You didn't want to stay on it for life but you want feel like crap for life? I don't get it.


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## swimtb

ForeverStallone said:


> The T shots aren't a supplement, they replace your testosterone completely because your natural production shuts down.
> 
> Why would you go off it if you're deficient? You didn't want to stay on it for life but you want feel like crap for life? I don't get it.


He might never be able to have kids.


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## Elad

I got mine tested a while back and it was on the low end of the spectrum.. just not low enough for them to do anything about it, which is ridiculous. Low is low, theres no reason we can't all be at the upper normal levels.

I'm actually about to get another one done to see where I'm at again, will be kind of annoyed if it comes back on the lower end again but not enough for any therapy.


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## ForeverStallone

swimtb said:


> He might never be able to have kids.


 He can get his sperm frozen and there's also HCG injections/clomid to keep his natural production going.



Elad said:


> I got mine tested a while back and it was on the low end of the spectrum.. just not low enough for them to do anything about it, which is ridiculous. Low is low, theres no reason we can't all be at the upper normal levels.
> 
> I'm actually about to get another one done to see where I'm at again, will be kind of annoyed if it comes back on the lower end again but not enough for any therapy.


Try to get LH and FSH readings as well to determine if the problem is the signaling from the brain (secondary) or if your testicles aren't working properly (primary).

I've been going through this **** for the last 2 years. It's a mixture of unknowledgeable doctors and the government being really strict on testosterone. You can lower it yourself by binge drinking, overtraining/over exerting yourself, not sleeping, severely limiting your fat intake for a few days. That's should get you below if you're already low enough for them to take you seriously.


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## Adam Harris

I think i do..


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## Sportmen

Low testosterone levels is a phenomenon that occurs when the human body is observed with less than 300 nanograms per deciliter of a hormone in the blood.It is worth noting that women also experience the loss of testosterone considerably faster than that of boys - if during female menopause estrogen level drops in a few months, the decline in testosterone levels in men can take place over the years. In spite of this, men are much harder on themselves when they feel symptoms of decline, which are a little bit later nevertheless.
Regardless of the pace of falling testosterone levels, you can say one thing - the quality of life will be affected in a negative way. However, thanks to modern genetic engineering, there is the possibility of replenishment of your natural testosterone levels with injections. Worth noting is the fact that, unlike his predecessors, which raise the level of testosterone but halt its excretion of the body - modern drugs, in turn, not only replenish the body of testosterone, but they also have a positive impact on the rate of release of its own, which only in a positive way affects the health of the patient.
Found here


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## SplendidBob

Elad said:


> I got mine tested a while back and it was on the low end of the spectrum.. just not low enough for them to do anything about it, which is ridiculous. Low is low, theres no reason we can't all be at the upper normal levels.
> 
> I'm actually about to get another one done to see where I'm at again, will be kind of annoyed if it comes back on the lower end again but not enough for any therapy.


Thing is though (and I am in a similar boat) I don't know that everyone does need to be in the higher levels (or even if it is optimal). The reality of the situation medically is likely to be rather complex, with things like receptor sensitivity varying between people (**** tbh I don't understand, but also it seems nobody particularly does, which is sort of the point heh).

For whatever reason though your body might be 'set' at a lower testosterone level, it might be unwise to assume higher in the range is better. The lower level might be _necessary_ in an individual for other reasons (pure speculation on my part, but worth considering I think).

What irks me though personally, is that I didn't get mine tested when I was 20, to serve as a baseline. My bottom of the range might be appropriate for me, or might be half of what it should be and I will never know.

I also agree with the comments about diet etc not making much of a difference. What has been shown to make a difference (and a significant one) is losing bodyfat if obese or significantly overweight (I am hoping this will fix my borderline secondary hypo).


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## 546617

this is actually very intresting.. I wish someone with low test with social anxiety would go on testosterone and tell us if it cured SA.


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## Peaceislove

i was thinking about low-t and sa too might have something to do with each other.


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