# Low testosterone at 21 yrs old



## Nauticus (Mar 18, 2011)

Some of you may have read my previous thread about my heart troubles and subsequent blood test.. I got those test results today. What came back troublesome were my testosterone levels... a measly *299 ng/dl. *The average for a male my age is closer to 600 ng/dl. This alone could account for so many of the symptoms I have (poor memory and concentration, dysthymia, fatigue). I'm going to get more blood drawn tomorrow to confirm it wasn't anomalous. I think my docs going to test prolactin levels and stuff related to the pituitary gland as well.

Has anyone here, upon successfully treating low test levels, experienced a reduction in anxiety or depression? I think blood tests are a VERY good idea to make sure a strange thing like this isn't the culprit.


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## MindOverMood (Dec 12, 2009)

I've always wondered if I have low testosterone:| Maybe I should ask my doctor next time I see him.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

Nauticus said:


> Some of you may have read my previous thread about my heart troubles and subsequent blood test.. I got those test results today. What came back troublesome were my testosterone levels... a measly *299 ng/dl. *The average for a male my age is closer to 600 ng/dl. This alone could account for so many of the symptoms I have (poor memory and concentration, dysthymia, fatigue). I'm going to get more blood drawn tomorrow to confirm it wasn't anomalous. I think my docs going to test prolactin levels and stuff related to the pituitary gland as well.
> 
> Has anyone here, upon successfully treating low test levels, experienced a reduction in anxiety or depression? I think blood tests are a VERY good idea to make sure a strange thing like this isn't the culprit.


A lab generally (always?) has a reference *range *for normal - not a single value.

"Different labs have varying ranges of what they consider normal with values ranging from the low 200s to over 1200 ng./dl. considered normal for men and from 15 to 70 ng./dl. considered normal for women."
http://www.thebody.com/content/art32237.html

Are you the person with the hypoxia theory? How did that pan out?


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

ive got low testosterone as well, so i can relate. ive had it tested many times. my first test at like 19 was 270..thats right! but my next was 450, and then last september it was 535(still not great)...a month ago it was 477.
doc said i could take test replacements, if i wanted. testosterone is essential for many things, including the prevention of heart attacks. i might take her up on the offer, and get my levels to 800-900.
free testosterone is important as well.
vitamin d is important as well. i believe the increase from 270-450 was from my vit d increase.


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## Nauticus (Mar 18, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> A lab generally (always?) has a reference *range *for normal - not a single value.
> 
> "Different labs have varying ranges of what they consider normal with values ranging from the low 200s to over 1200 ng./dl. considered normal for men and from 15 to 70 ng./dl. considered normal for women."
> http://www.thebody.com/content/art32237.html
> ...


Of course if I'm within that range and I'm feeling fine, there's simply no reason to worry about it. I understand there's a range and not a single number to be striving for here, but when you take into consideration my age and symptoms, I think average is important. If testosterone is indeed low, there's a good chance at least some of what I'm feeling is from the lack of it.

I think that hypoxia theory was a result of an OCD fit I was having at that moment.. my blood tests revealed everything was excellent concerning oxygen related stuff. I mentioned the stamina to my doc and she scheduled me some tests after doing an EKG which revealed a lead I which was very off.

I do appreciate your skepticism, btw. It reminds me I need to be a little more precise and careful when I post.



rctriplefresh5 said:


> ive got low testosterone as well, so i can relate. ive had it tested many times. my first test at like 19 was 270..thats right! but my next was 450, and then last september it was 535(still not great)...a month ago it was 477.
> doc said i could take test replacements, if i wanted. testosterone is essential for many things, including the prevention of heart attacks. i might take her up on the offer, and get my levels to 800-900.
> free testosterone is important as well.
> vitamin d is important as well. i believe the increase from 270-450 was from my vit d increase.


My vitamin D levels were in range at 30, but she said she'd like to get them up to sixty-ish. I'll keep that in mind

Also was prescribed some Lithium because mine was nonexistent at .3.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

30 is a crap vitamin d level..mine are 75, and im trying to get to around 105.
your testosterone is in range, as is mine, that does not mean they are good numbers


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## Giraffe (Sep 7, 2010)

What made you guys suspect that you had low testosterone?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

This is interesting.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

Here is my opinion, as an ex-GP:
If your serum testosterone or Vit D, or s. rhubarb levels are within the normal range for the lab, and you have psychological symptoms, the low-normal level of these things are probably *not *the cause of your symptoms.

I've also had all sorts of imaginations about marginally low or high levels of various things in my blood, and I wish I could simply ascribe my SA and other psych symptoms to something easily supplementable, but the reality is that this is rarely the reason.

So, while I hope you are right, I remain skeptical. I've seen it too often.

PS: I don't know whether they've invented a Blood Dysmorphic Disorder yet, similar to BodyDD where one perceives ones blood tests as being abnormal when they're not, but I can see it coming.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

Ramondo said:


> Here is my opinion, as an ex-GP:
> If your serum testosterone or Vit D, or s. rhubarb levels are within the normal range for the lab, and you have psychological symptoms, the low-normal level of these things are probably *not *the cause of your symptoms.
> 
> I've also had all sorts of imaginations about marginally low or high levels of various things in my blood, and I wish I could simply ascribe my SA and other psych symptoms to something easily supplementable, but the reality is that this is rarely the reason.
> ...


ive got to disagree with you there. there are optimal ranges, and then there are ranges that blood test companies use to be safe. a range of 240-1200 is incredibly broad for testosterone. i wouldnt even consider a man aged 65 to be healthy with a test elvel under 350. The tests do not take age into account. how can they say a 21 year old with a 240 test elvel is as normal as a 65 yr old with a level of 1200? extreme example, but being in the normal range does not mean anything. Also, nothing is set in stone. research is constantly evolving. the reference ranges are constantly changing. Vitamin D has had a massive rise in what is considered normal!
Anyway, since you are a former GP, i will ask you a question. I have always had low platelets. Will increasing my b12 intake help them rise? I am going to get tested to see if my b12 is deficient. Also could it raise my testosterone, in the same manner that the vitamin d has? Id like to avoid shots if possible. Thanks.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

rctriplefresh5 said:


> but being in the normal range does not mean anything.
> 
> It means your level is not abnormal. That has to count for something!
> 
> ...


R.


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## Nauticus (Mar 18, 2011)

Abnormal to me means significantly lower than average, not just in range. Why do you think being in range is enough to rule it out as a problem?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

It's "abnormally low" or "subnormal" - "Abnormal" means above. :lol

How does testosterone change with age, though?


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

Nauticus said:


> Abnormal to me means significantly lower than average, not just in range. Why do you think being in range is enough to rule it out as a problem?


Yes, abnormal means 'out of range'.
Because that's how it works. That's the purpose of reference ranges in the first place. If a certain low level was known to lead to clinical problems the reference level would be set above that. That is how a testing laboratory signals to the clinician whether the level is abnormal. 
Obviously a clinician will look at the absolute levels as well, not just accept that everything is within the normal range. If you have a specific illness, or condition or are on certain drugs, the absolute level will sometimes be more important, and will have to be higher or lower.
BUT, all other things being equal, if all your blood tests are in the reference range, they are _very probably_ not the cause of the problem. I don't see the difficulty with this concept.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

Nauticus said:


> Abnormal to me means significantly lower than average, not just in range. Why do you think being in range is enough to rule it out as a problem?


raymondosounds very old fashioned. i agree with you man..and a lot of current physicians do as well!


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

millenniumman75 said:


> It's "abnormally low" or "subnormal" - "Abnormal" means above. :lol
> 
> How does testosterone change with age, though?


abnormal means below also...but i understand your joke(which wasnt funny )
as men age they lose testosterone. by the time the op is 50 he will b in a wheelchair from fatigue.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

many physicians are arguing that testosterone deficiency is a clinical disorder. not only thi but by some reference ranges your result is below normal. 300 is the bottom in some ranges..but even if it wasnt the bottom..you are deficient. 299 is a disgraceful level for a guy your age. i plan to start trt, and get myself up to 800 minimum....there are jsut tomany health benefits to testosterone to not do so!!!
has your estradiol been checked?

at raymondo- by your logic you should also be concerned with your abnormal platelets but you are not. there is a reason for my low platelets as is there a reason for yours. i have many clinical symptoms and i feel this is a sign. I also have enlarged glands that move in my jaw area..so for all i know i could have leukymia or something
not to be rude, but y are you a retired doc at the young age of 46? also did you go to af oreign school or an American school?


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

Giraffe said:


> What made you guys suspect that you had low testosterone?


very tough for me to gain muscle or strength..i actually lose strength very quickly. m strength has been droppin a lot lately. i have fatigue, am tired all the time,my cognitive ability is lost. have chronic headahes, and stomach problems. ear issues, joint issues, eye issues...depression issues
i have high libido strangely enough, but i think this is because i am a 21 yr old virgin. i am sure if girls wanted me , id have low libido.
i dont really get morning wood, like i sued to when i was 5 lol


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

rctriplefresh5 said:


> at raymondo- by your logic you should also be concerned with your abnormal platelets but you are not.
> No, by my logic, I'd look at the blood results, and consider whether they were significant enough to panic about and go demanding platelet infusions from a haematologist. I'd consider at what level low platelets would cause a tendency to bleed. etc. Also, I'd not treat myself, but get an opinion from someone else. You must have missed the bit where I implied that medical training and experience is necessary to interpret blood results properly in the context of the clinical situation.
> 
> there is a reason for my low platelets as is there a reason for yours.
> ...


PS: General Disclaimer - I've been out of the workforce for a while. None of my posts is meant as medical advice.

And if American doctors are treating BDD with any sort of body sculpting, of either body or blood, it's really none of my business. Really, you can knock yourself out with anabolic steroids in your teens as much as you like. It might give you a slight edge in muscle mass if that's your aim. (I realise I can't recall you've even said why you've chosen this particular normality to enhance) Perhaps, like many of us here, you don't intend ever to become old, so the longterm effects of steroid [ab]use aren't important to you?
I know I don't.

R.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

i already feel old. im not going to be taking enough of the injections to get me to steroidal levels. i just hope to be at the to of the normal range for test. test has so many benefits..it is what makes you feel alive


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

rctriplefresh5 said:


> i already feel old. im not going to be taking enough of the injections to get me to steroidal levels. i just hope to be at the to of the normal range for test. test has so many benefits..it is what makes you feel alive


OK, we all need our hobbies. Whatever rocks your boat, I guess.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

op are u going with injections or doing nothing


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## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

After viewing some commercials, I've wondered whether I might have low testosterone as well. More likely is that my ingrained psychological problems are the cause. Even if I were tested and it revealed a deficiency, no way in hell would I take hormone replacement. That's way too dicey.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

IcedOver said:


> After viewing some commercials, I've wondered whether I might have low testosterone as well. More likely is that my ingrained psychological problems are the cause. Even if I were tested and it revealed a deficiency, no way in hell would I take hormone replacement. That's way too dicey.


how so?


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

IcedOver said:


> After viewing some commercials, I've wondered whether I might have low testosterone as well. More likely is that my ingrained psychological problems are the cause. Even if I were tested and it revealed a deficiency, no way in hell would I take hormone replacement. That's way too dicey.


They show commercials about low testosterone in USA? I think I'm beginning to see where this fad is coming from. Who is putting out the commercials?

Hormone replacement isn't dicey if you're truly deficient.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

i think that although testosterone injections arent dicey per say, if you can avoid them you might as well. my test levels are not the highest, but before i take test i want to try vitmin b12 injections of methlycobalmin


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

This is a bit late, but I thought it might be relevant. Normal ranges of testosterone are very much misunderstood, IMO. The reason being, as we age, testosterone levels are known to decrease, yet the ranges do not take this into consideration. Therefore, a 20 year old with peak lifetime levels of testosterone could get blood drawn and have a testosterone level of 310 ng/dl with the normal range being 300-1200 ng/dl. Now, most doctors don't have a good understanding of testosterone, as is evident by Ramondo's posts on here (no offense, simply making a point), and would say he is within normal ranges and would not treat him. When in fact, his levels are more on par with a 90 year old man. 

There is a good website that actually shows a breakdown of average testosterone levels by age, based on a study that was done. To view this, simply type into Google: "Testosterone levels in men by age" and click on the website with the URL something along the lines of "mens-hormonal-health"

Additionally, there is another study done that shows how average testosterone levels have been declining over the past 20 years, which is very interesting. Type into google: "Testosterone Levels in Men Decline Over Past Two Decades, Study Show" and click on URL from "endo-society"

I believe MANY men with social anxiety also have low testosterone. If in question, go get them checked out, I've heard of many people having great success with testosterone replacement. If you have any questions or concerns, I have done A LOT of research on this and would be happy to help you. ie (studies disproving the link between testosterone replacement and prostate cancer, best treatment methods, well respected/well versed individuals in the field of testosterone replacement.)


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## DubnRun (Oct 29, 2011)

Diet is the most important reason. You must stay away from homgenised milk!! the estrogen mimickers in them can give you moobs and cause low tetestrone.. but overall good diet is key..


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## CoolSauce (Mar 6, 2012)

would that mean you behave/look more feminine too? lack of facial hair?, etc


I never heard of this being an actual medical problem before though


also wouldn't having low testosterone mean that you won't go bald? Only possible good thing about it I guess


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

I have lack of facial hair and have had gynecomastia, which is the growth of a fatty mass on your chest (pretty much breast tissue). I went and got my blood drawn the other day to test my testosterone levels. I'll keep you guys posted when I find out the results.


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## Michael777 (Oct 29, 2012)

rctriplefresh5 said:


> very tough for me to gain muscle or strength..i actually lose strength very quickly. m strength has been droppin a lot lately. i have fatigue, am tired all the time,my cognitive ability is lost. have chronic headahes, and stomach problems. ear issues, joint issues, eye issues...depression issues
> i have high libido strangely enough, but i think this is because i am a 21 yr old virgin. i am sure if girls wanted me , id have low libido.
> i dont really get morning wood, like i sued to when i was 5 lol


I have all the same symptoms as u except for headaches. I got to the gym and it's hard for me to gain muscle. Cognitive ability is gone. Can't problem solve like I use too. Extreme fatigue. Etc. and I am only 23. Have u had your testosterone levels checked yet???


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## rockyraccoon (Dec 13, 2010)

Has anyone here used testosterone or steroids for depression, despite your blood levels in the normal range?


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## NateDEEzy (Feb 2, 2012)

My levels are in the "normal range". I have for a long time suspected that my symptoms are related to low testosterone, symptoms: no facial hair(despite being white and 26yo), gynecomsatia (despite being skinny, 6'6 200lbs), low energy, foggy mind, trouble concentrating, depression, no drive/motivation. Finally I was able to get a hold of a half tube of Testim (testosterone gel-normal does is full tube), tried it, and within 15 minutes I began to feel better than I had in a very long time, in fact I can't remember the last time I felt that good. I had endless energy, depression was gone, I actually wanted to go out and be active (normally I'm total opposite), had motivation, no negative thoughts; to describe it in a word, it was AMAZING. Ever since, I have been talking to doctors to try and get prescribed testosterone replacement, but since my numbers are "normal", despite having many symptoms, I have been unsuccessful so far.


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