# Carnivore Diet Cured His Depression?



## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

I'm on a vegetable diet atm but this interview made me REALLY think about the effects of certain foods/drinks on my mental health. I'm gonna try to keep a closer watch on what I take into my body from now on. :nerd:

NFH


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## GeomTech (Sep 29, 2015)

Interesting. Eat meat, drink water. Lol. 

I'd still stick with the veggies (organic, of course for both) though.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

Nope, plenty of carnivores are depressed. I would doubt that that alone did anything.

But, eating better food does play a role in how well your body performs.


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## Omni-slash (Feb 10, 2016)

I think most intellectuals have to find a way to cope with the ethics of meat consumption, and this is just one way. Think Harris says something similar. Of course, I don't know anything about Peterson's experiences, but I haven't seen any evidence to support the claim aside from anecdotes. And also, the placebo effect.


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## GeomTech (Sep 29, 2015)

Classified said:


> Nope, plenty of carnivores are depressed. I would doubt that that alone did anything.
> 
> But, eating better food does play a role in how well your body performs.


It cured (or supposedly rendered it to manageable levels without the use of meds) _his_ depression (or so he claims). Not depression in general.

He even states in the video that it's entirely anecdotal; therefore warns viewers _not_ to universalize from his experiences with this diet modification he's been undertaking. So, apparently, he found what works for _him_; which may not work for us; given if we were to try his approach.

So, the overall message here appears to be to try things out, experiment for yourself; keep to the things that are working, and disregard that which is not or impede upon any improvements (what Peterson describes doing in the video).

And if it were placebo, I'd wonder about the mechanisms behind that placebo, and why it was powerful enough to allegedly mitigate symptoms of depression, and whatever else Peterson was supposedly suffering from (supposedly eye floaters, psoriasis, gum disease, etc).


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## Raies (Nov 3, 2016)

Chances are that a healthy and balanced diet is the best, in-fact.


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## CloudChaser (Nov 7, 2013)

I got some meat for you right here.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

GeomTech said:


> It cured (or supposedly rendered it to manageable levels without the use of meds) _his_ depression (or so he claims). Not depression in general.
> 
> He even states in the video that it's entirely anecdotal; therefore warns viewers _not_ to universalize from his experiences with this diet modification he's been undertaking. So, apparently, he found what works for _him_; which may not work for us; given if we were to try his approach.
> 
> So, the overall message here appears to be to try things out, experiment for yourself; keep to the things that are working, and disregard that which is not or impede upon any improvements (what Peterson describes doing in the video).


Exactly my thoughts but I could never put it so eloquently like you just did.

Our bodies are unique so what allegedly worked for Peterson will not work for everyone. However, bringing our attention closer to what we eat is probably a good place to be looking into. 
@CloudChaser - stop advertising stripper underwear! :spit


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

Here are some additional videos from the same guy and his daughter.

Back when they were on antidepressants(not on a specific diet): 





Father & daughter, back on the same show 4 years later. Meat & green vegetables diet - no wheat, no dairy, no legumes. She is completely off medication and her father reduced his antidepressants by half:





This is her a few days ago and she's on a beef-only, diet. Apparently, they were still having some minor depressive symptoms so they decided to cut out green vegetables from their diet and so far it's been working for them: 





**I also have a memory problem so learning that her memory had improved as a result of the diet was also very encouraging to hear! SA/depression seems to affect my memory a lot.


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## 1solated (Jul 5, 2018)

When I saw the title of this thread I started laughing because I saw this video a few days ago.

I say just try a few diets and see what works. Maybe Paleo would be a good start.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

1solated said:


> When I saw the title of this thread I started laughing because I saw this video a few days ago.
> 
> I say just try a few diets and see what works. Maybe Paleo would be a good start.


Thanks for the tip. Do you have any experience with the Paleo Diet?


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## 1solated (Jul 5, 2018)

NotFullyHere said:


> Thanks for the tip. Do you have any experience with the Paleo Diet?


Yes I have tried it in the past and felt somewhat more clear-minded/energetic. Diet has never affected me to the same degree physical exercise has though in improving my mood personally, if you know what you're doing though the paleo diet is pretty damn cheap if you're on a budget. Broccoli, cheap cuts of steak, bananas, eggs, potatoes, canned tuna, some salads, kale, chicken, are some good suggestions.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

1solated said:


> Yes I have tried it in the past and felt somewhat more clear-minded/energetic. Diet has never affected me to the same degree physical exercise has though in improving my mood personally, if you know what you're doing though the paleo diet is pretty damn cheap if you're on a budget. Broccoli, cheap cuts of steak, bananas, eggs, potatoes, canned tuna, some salads, kale, chicken, are some good suggestions.


Thanks! I appreciate your answer. It seems like there's a lot to gain, health-wise, on a low-carb diet. Two days ago, I made a switch from veggies-only to a chicken-only diet. I'm thinking if I start from one particular source of food and slowly add more as I go, I could come up with a personalized diet a lot faster.

No carbs definitely has a positive effect on my depression so far, I feel a lot less gloomy and helpless. But I'll need at least a month on this diet to know what's really working and what's not.

An important thing I wanna say is that we all react to food in different ways, so the food itself is really not to blame. It's just how our bodies react to certain foods that really decides what's good for us on a personal level. Since I also have depression like the Peterson's, starting with the meat-only diet seemed like the best place for me to start my food journey. I will keep updating this thread on my progress.

Best,

NFH


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## Tuan Jie (Apr 6, 2017)

@NotFullyHere
I have a vegan friend and I have a keto friend. Both claim their diet helped them a lot with their (mental) health. I think the best way to approach this is to experiment and to pay close attention to how you react to it. I don't believe in _the_ solution. Every body('s microbiome) is different. I've experimented quite a bit over the years and read a bunch of books, saw loads of documentaries. My research question was what healthy food is. I couldn't care if it was vegan or carnivore. It turned out to be a very difficult question. It took me two years to find some sort of an answer and I still think the jury is out on a lot of it. I've also been tested for allergies and gut infections. You may want to tick that off in an early stage.

I do better on a high fat (grass fed butter) lower carb diet, although I've never tried keto. No more brain fog, less gut problems, diminished inflammatory issues like pollen allergy. I'd say cutting out veg oil (high omega 6/inflammation) was one of the best things that came out of this for me. My menatal health issueas aren't brought about by my diet though, I'm quite sure. Have you seen the JRE episode with Chris Kresser (#842)? I think this paleo/functional medicine combination is interesting. Good luck on this journey!


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## hateliving (Jun 12, 2018)

http://www.meat.org/


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

Tuan Jie said:


> @NotFullyHere
> I have a vegan friend and I have a keto friend. Both claim their diet helped them a lot with their (mental) health. I think the best way to approach this is to experiment and to pay close attention to how you react to it. I don't believe in _the_ solution. Every body('s microbiome) is different. I've experimented quite a bit over the years and read a bunch of books, saw loads of documentaries. My research question was what healthy food is. I couldn't care if it was vegan or carnivore. It turned out to be a very difficult question. It took me two years to find some sort of an answer and I still think the jury is out on a lot of it. I've also been tested for allergies and gut infections. You may want to tick that off in an early stage.
> 
> I do better on a high fat (grass fed butter) lower carb diet, although I've never tried keto. No more brain fog, less gut problems, diminished inflammatory issues like pollen allergy. I'd say cutting out veg oil (high omega 6/inflammation) was one of the best things that came out of this for me. My menatal health issueas aren't brought about by my diet though, I'm quite sure. Have you seen the JRE episode with Chris Kresser (#842)? I think this paleo/functional medicine combination is interesting. Good luck on this journey!


Yep. I definitely don't believe in the "one solution for all" kind of thinking.

It's been 11 days since I've started the zero carb diet and I haven't had any major negative thoughts so far, which is pretty mind blowing for me since I've had depression almost everyday for 20 years. I don't think this diet will "cure" my depression but maybe it can prevent it from becoming too much to bear? I don't know, I'll have to stick to this diet for a little more while and see what happens. (Sorry @hateliving)

I'll check out the Chris Kresser interview, thanks!

NFH


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## Synaps3 (Jul 12, 2012)

NotFullyHere said:


> I'm on a vegetable diet atm but this interview made me REALLY think about the effects of certain foods/drinks on my mental health. I'm gonna try to keep a closer watch on what I take into my body from now on. :nerd:
> 
> NFH


I'm really a fan of the paleo diet. It's mostly the excess carbs that make you feel drained. I really want to try this diet for myself, but it's not so easy to do given the prevalence of carbs and fat in modern day diets.

Interestingly, I really notice a difference in my mood when I eat a lot of red meat. A lot of people have said that red meat isn't healthy, but it really makes me feel so much different. It's the only thing that I can truly gauge in terms of food. If I have a steak, I always feel wonderful through the day. It really does have an effect. It's not just a pleasure thing of "this tastes so good"; it really does last and gives me a longer term positive feeling.

Maybe it's the B12. Try taking some B12 supplements and it might give a similar feeling.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

Synaps3 said:


> I'm really a fan of the paleo diet. It's mostly the excess carbs that make you feel drained. I really want to try this diet for myself, but it's not so easy to do given the prevalence of carbs and fat in modern day diets.
> 
> Interestingly, I really notice a difference in my mood when I eat a lot of red meat. A lot of people have said that red meat isn't healthy, but it really makes me feel so much different. It's the only thing that I can truly gauge in terms of food. If I have a steak, I always feel wonderful through the day. It really does have an effect. It's not just a pleasure thing of "this tastes so good"; it really does last and gives me a longer term positive feeling.
> 
> Maybe it's the B12. Try taking some B12 supplements and it might give a similar feeling.


Hey, if it works for you then screw everyone else's opinion! lol Depression is a major _pumpkin_ problem for those of us suffering from it, so if we're given a natural solution to loosen it's grip on us then we ought to give it a real shot.

Why take a supplement when you can just eat the meat? I like keeping things natural so I wouldn't take supplements unless I really had to.

Best,

NFH


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

Tuan Jie said:


> @NotFullyHere
> Have you seen the JRE episode with Chris Kresser (#842)?


This is a really long but really interesting interview, I'm gonna have to watch it a few more times and do some research to fully understand it.


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## jhinds (May 30, 2011)

Yesterday I started doing zero carb full time. I'm going to try it for a month to see what affect it has on my low grade depression and anxiety. I've been low carbing for a few years now but given what JP and his daughter have said in those videos, I've decided to try eliminating all carbs. I limit myself to 70 grams of protein in the form of red meat and eggs as excess protein can be converted to glucose in the body and can kick you out of ketosis. The rest of my caloric intake is primarily grass fed butter (~ 6 oz/day). I also do intermittent fasting, eating 2 meals (breakfast and lunch) 6 hours apart and nothing but water the rest of the day. I'm never really hungry and have no urge to ever snack. I use Fitday to track my calories and macronutrients. Due to lack of hunger, if I don't track calories I'll find myself eating fewer calories than my body needs, and this can lower my metabolism and make me feel sluggish.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

jhinds said:


> Yesterday I started doing zero carb full time. I'm going to try it for a month to see what affect it has on my low grade depression and anxiety. I've been low carbing for a few years now but given what JP and his daughter have said in those videos, I've decided to try eliminating all carbs. I limit myself to 70 grams of protein in the form of red meat and eggs as excess protein can be converted to glucose in the body and can kick you out of ketosis. The rest of my caloric intake is primarily grass fed butter (~ 6 oz/day). I also do intermittent fasting, eating 2 meals (breakfast and lunch) 6 hours apart and nothing but water the rest of the day. I'm never really hungry and have no urge to ever snack. I use Fitday to track my calories and macronutrients. Due to lack of hunger, if I don't track calories I'll find myself eating fewer calories than my body needs, and this can lower my metabolism and make me feel sluggish.


That is impressive! Keep us updated on how it goes. You'll probably have much less problems adjusting to it, since you're already on a low carb diet. 
It's been 16 days for me on ZC and my body is getting more comfortable with it, I felt quite weak for the first week and a half. However, the psychological improvements were almost instantaneous for me. Depression did play a huge role in my cravings for food, so it's a huge bonus that my weight has been on a steady decline.

Wishing you the best!

NFH


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

I could imagine the nutritional deficiencies would start to catch up with you.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

RelinquishedHell said:


> I could imagine the nutritional deficiencies would start to catch up with you.


There are communities on FB with thousands of people that have been on the ZC diet for years(the longest I've heard was over 20 years), so I don't think there's much to worry about in regard to nutritional deficiencies. Plus, I think it is important to go by the way your body is feeling and make adjustments to your diet accordingly.


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## jhinds (May 30, 2011)

NotFullyHere said:


> That is impressive! Keep us updated on how it goes. You'll probably have much less problems adjusting to it, since you're already on a low carb diet.
> It's been 16 days for me on ZC and my body is getting more comfortable with it, I felt quite weak for the first week and a half. However, the psychological improvements were almost instantaneous for me. Depression did play a huge role in my cravings for food, so it's a huge bonus that my weight has been on a steady decline.
> 
> Wishing you the best!
> ...


I'll keep you updated. The weight loss alone should keep you motivated to stay on it. That's what happened to me when I started low carbing. The mental health improvements should seal the deal.

The amount of butter I eat makes me a bit nauseous, so I need to find another source of fat. In his Joe Rogan interview, JP says he buys beef fat and fries it up crispy. Sounds like a good and inexpensive alternative.



RelinquishedHell said:


> I could imagine the nutritional deficiencies would start to catch up with you.


It's a bit of a concern, but I already supplement with a wide array of vitamins and minerals, and I'm planning on incorporating liver from grass fed cows into my diet.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

jhinds said:


> The amount of butter I eat makes me a bit nauseous, so I need to find another source of fat. In his Joe Rogan interview, JP says he buys beef fat and fries it up crispy. Sounds like a good and inexpensive alternative.


That sounds like a great idea. I also didn't feel good with butter so I got little sliced chicken skins, instead - one slice keeps me full for a good while and I feel great(I just fry it).


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

Day 23 on the zero carb diet. Incorporating intermittent fasting for weight loss purposes. Body is still adapting(adaptation can take anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months on average) to this way of eating but 95% of the time I'm feeling just fine. Mentally, I'm more stable and haven't had a major depressive episode since I started the ZC diet and my mind is quite alert and clear. My SA is still there but I hope it will have less of an impact on me once my weight is under control, as I do not feel comfortable being over weight.

Weight before ZC diet - 215 lbs
23 days on ZC diet - 195 lbs
(I still have another 40 lbs to lose to get to my healthy weight.)

Adapting to this diet is definitely the hardest part, but once I'm over this phase everything should be fine.

NFH


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## jhinds (May 30, 2011)

NotFullyHere said:


> Day 23 on the zero carb diet. Incorporating intermittent fasting for weight loss purposes. Body is still adapting(adaptation can take anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months on average) to this way of eating but 95% of the time I'm feeling just fine. Mentally, I'm more stable and haven't had a major depressive episode since I started the ZC diet and my mind is quite alert and clear. My SA is still there but I hope it will have less of an impact on me once my weight is under control, as I do not feel comfortable being over weight.
> 
> Weight before ZC diet - 215 lbs
> 23 days on ZC diet - 195 lbs
> ...


Congratulations on you weight loss progress. Your experience is very similar to what I went through when I started eating low carb. Two things to keep in mind.

At some point you may encounter a weight loss stall. This sometimes happens so don't let it get you discouraged. You may need to then adjust your macro nutrient ratios (I.e. increase or decrease fat) or start counting calories and eat just a bit less than what you think you need.

Also....and this was my big mistake....if you're not already doing it you should start weight training to help maintain lean body mass. Because while eating ZC makes you mostly lose fat, it will also cause some loss of learn muscle mass if you don't work out to maintain it. I didn't work out as I lost weight and now I'm fairly lean without much muscle tone. This leaves me a bit self conscious about my looks as slender men are not necessarily the most attractive body type. Better than fat, yes. But not as good as being fit or athletic looking.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

jhinds said:


> Congratulations on you weight loss progress. Your experience is very similar to what I went through when I started eating low carb. Two things to keep in mind.
> 
> At some point you may encounter a weight loss stall. This sometimes happens so don't let it get you discouraged. You may need to then adjust your macro nutrient ratios (I.e. increase or decrease fat) or start counting calories and eat just a bit less than what you think you need.
> 
> Also....and this was my big mistake....if you're not already doing it you should start weight training to help maintain lean body mass. Because while eating ZC makes you mostly lose fat, it will also cause some loss of learn muscle mass if you don't work out to maintain it. I didn't work out as I lost weight and now I'm fairly lean without much muscle tone. This leaves me a bit self conscious about my looks as slender men are not necessarily the most attractive body type. Better than fat, yes. But not as good as being fit or athletic looking.


Thanks for the tips, man!

I recently had a weight stall for about a week but I was able to overcome it through intermittent fasting so I think I'll integrate that into my diet.

I haven't been training at all so I think I'll do some light workouts from time to time. I am eating, in a day, about 0.5g of protein/lb of body weight to maintain muscle. I don't want to overeat protein and cause gluconeogenesis, either. That could become a problem for my liver in the long run. Plus, it saves me money to be eating less lol But the good thing is, I'm not that hungry so most days I'm fasting or eating OMAD(one meal a day). So far this diet has nothing but benefits it seems, but we'll see how things go. :smile2:

Can't wait to hear your report,

NFH


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

NotFullyHere said:


> But the good thing is, I'm not that hungry so most days I'm fasting or eating OMAD(one meal a day). So far this diet has nothing but benefits it seems, but we'll see how things go.


I had acid reflux problems recently and so I cheated by adding avocados, bananas and nattō back into my diet. I'm guessing the acid reflux was caused by a potassium deficiency but I'm not entirely sure.. My depression is still under control so that's good.

NFH


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## jhinds (May 30, 2011)

NotFullyHere said:


> I had acid reflux problems recently and so I cheated by adding avocados, bananas and nattō back into my diet. I'm guessing the acid reflux was caused by a potassium deficiency but I'm not entirely sure.. My depression is still under control so that's good.
> 
> NFH


I use Nu-Salt to get my potassium.

http://www.nusalt.com/faq/


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

jhinds said:


> I use Nu-Salt to get my potassium.
> 
> http://www.nusalt.com/faq/


Thanks, @jhinds. I already ordered a supplement so I'll try that out first but Nu-Salt will be next on the list, for sure. &#128077;


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

Doing great so far after the potassium deficiency was dealt with. My depression is pretty much non-existent at this point, so now I can really concentrate on losing weight and getting fit. 

I am in a really long weight stall atm(10+ days), so I started doing some high intensity cardio exercises about 5 days ago. I hope to keep exercising and making it a part of my lifestyle, just like the diet I'm on. I did gain a little weight which I think is from gaining some muscle - I know it's definitely not from eating excessively so.

I set out to combat depression with this new diet and I'm glad that it worked out for me! I'm not 100% carnivore since I tweaked it to suit my own body's response and all - and I will perhaps continue to tweak things as time goes by - but I am happy as long as the depression is kept at bay. 

NFH


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

CloudChaser said:


> I got some meat for you right here.


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## jhinds (May 30, 2011)

NotFullyHere said:


> Doing great so far after the potassium deficiency was dealt with. My depression is pretty much non-existent at this point, so now I can really concentrate on losing weight and getting fit.
> 
> I am in a really long weight stall atm(10+ days), so I started doing some high intensity cardio exercises about 5 days ago. I hope to keep exercising and making it a part of my lifestyle, just like the diet I'm on. I did gain a little weight which I think is from gaining some muscle - I know it's definitely not from eating excessively so.
> 
> ...


Congratulations. Keep up the good work.

I've been running 3 miles 4 days a week now but want to switch to HIIT eventually. Still working on my conditioning. Running after I come home from work helps elevate my mood in the evenings. That's the biggest motivator for staying on course.

Weight training is my next objective. No excuses for not doing it.


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## NotFullyHere (Apr 29, 2018)

jhinds said:


> Congratulations. Keep up the good work.
> 
> I've been running 3 miles 4 days a week now but want to switch to HIIT eventually. Still working on my conditioning. Running after I come home from work helps elevate my mood in the evenings. That's the biggest motivator for staying on course.
> 
> Weight training is my next objective. No excuses for not doing it.


Thank you, @jhinds. You know what, I also feel great after exercising and I seem to have a lot more energy since I've changed my diet so that's a big plus both, physically and mentally. I recently came across some info(Stan Efferding) that says taking a 10 minute walk after a meal, really helps to bring your insulin levels down a lot faster, preventing the carbs from being stored as fat. So if you're like me and sometimes have muscle aches or just simply don't feel like exercising, just go for a good 10min walk!

I'm not a long distance run kinda guy, so I prefer the high intensity sprints and little body weight exercises on the side. Haha. The muscle tears are adding more water weight to my body but that's a good thing so I'm not worried about that.

I'm watching Dr. Berg's videos on YouTube and learning a lot about good health. I'm thinking of incorporating some keto ideas into my diet.


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