# Cheating as lack of moral character



## moloko (May 1, 2013)

Is it or is it not?

Is cheating in a relationship a fundamental flaw in a person's character, no matter what, or are we just human, who make mistakes, and are sometimes just victims of the circumstances?

What's your opinion?


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## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

Person may be cheating because a relation got into a ****ty place (lack of communication, lack of love, boredom...)
I don't even think you can really 'blame' a person like this.
In a way I believe it's true for all the people who cheat.


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

When society looks down on people performing selfless acts of charity, it is just atrocious. If I had a girlfriend, it would be utterly selfish of me to hog my penis all to myself, or to share it only with my girlfriend. Meanwhile there are millions of poor unfortunate women who are forced to go without. The only moral thing to do is to have sex with many beautiful and love-starved women, and for my girlfriend to be compassionate and understanding enough to set her possessiveness aside long enough to see the value of my important charity work.

But society, with its typical callousness and lack of empathy for the downtrodden, calls this 'cheating'. They think that it is unfair for these unfortunate and desperate women to 'cheat' by getting free access to someone as great as me, while others have had to put in effort to earn their males. Well, just imagine that you are down on your luck and cannot get any. Wouldn't you want a great humanitarian like me to come along and help you out? That is what I'm trying to do. Not everyone is lucky enough to get the opportunity to obtain a top-class male like me, so it is good and right that this inequality be remedied through selfless acts like mine. Plus the thinking that any woman should be expected to do things to 'earn' their males is horribly unjust. Penis is a basic human right, and it is our responsibility to make sure they have access to it.

We must do this even though we are oppressed and persecuted for performing our noble task, for it is the path of righteousness.


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## hammerfast (Mar 8, 2012)

cheating is a moral obligation , no


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## Steinerz (Jul 15, 2013)

I cheat on my left hand for my right hand sometimes.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

A coward who doesn't have the balls/ovaries to discuss the relationship problems they are having with their current partner and decides to go off behind their back instead. So yeah, I see it as a flaw of character, they are not victims.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

Oh it's definitely a flaw in character. My ex-wife cheated, many times before I finally left. It was a conscious decision on her part to go out and have casual sex with 7 or 8 guys in a 12 month period, while she was married to me. It didn't happen by "accident". She didn't trip over something, go flying across the room, and accidentally land on top of another guy she wasn't married to, and have his d accidentally go into her v. No one drugged her. No one raped her. She made a conscious decision to make cheating her first and only priority, and as a result me and most importantly, our kids, came last. It was really a ******* sad thing to witness.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

No, it's not. Cheating can mean many things, it's not so black and white. My father cheated on my mom when they were married, and she was hurt but doesn't blame him now. I don't either, we know his reasons. Temptation is human, I don't demonize somebody for succumbing. In my dad's case, it wasn't even simple temptation, it was something deeper. If someone is blatantly and repeatedly cheating while in a relationship then I typically find them to be selfish and unfeeling, a little emotionally sadistic in some cases, the kind of person who likes to have sex as much as they like but know there'll be someone at home with dinner on the stove. My grandfather was kind of like that, but he has a lot of emotional issues (lots of anger, constant vitriol simmering beneath his skin). But cheating? I don't know. My friend told me she cheated a lot but she has emotional issues too. I've been close to cheaters, it's not black and white. 

So now I don't think of cheating as a clear sign of moral character, I think there's a lot of grey in there. My dad was a great man and a wonderful father, would do anything for me, but he cheated on my mom. I don't think that automatically means he lacks morals or lowers his character. I think we're human, and sometimes humans do things they're not proud of.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

A lot of people seem to not be able to be single. So they don't break up with their partner till they have the next one in line. I don't know if breaking up first (in order) to be with a new person is all that much better than cheating and breaking up soon after. 

Chronic cheating where they let the relationship drag on and on is pretty despicable though. 

Then again there are much worse things than cheating.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

There is no excuse for cheating!

The fact one is coming with all sorts of pathetic excuses to not take the responsability or the feeling of guilt, is just being a coward, a hypocrite, a liar(sometimes even to oneself) and a selfish douchebag.

I could compromise on a lot of things in a relationship but not something like this. Nobody just trips while being naked and ends up with her/his genitals penetrated/inserted by/into someone else. There is no 'mistake', it was not 'an accident', or other ridiculous texts. You couldn't even keep your panties on, while being in an exclusive relationship with me. What else is there to say? It's all over for sure at that point. Cause there is no more trust. You can stay together for your kids and act as a happy (hypocritical) familiy, if married. Or just lie to yourself that everyone cheats anyway, so you will still never find anyone better, and you just have to take whatever kind of crap the other will do. The problem is, in this last case, the other will surely have 0 respect for you(unless he/she already has no respect for you).


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

In my opinion, yes. No excuse for cheating. If you're unhappy, break up. I've seen many cheaters and none of them had a good excuse other than being completely selfish and inconsiderate and disrespectful of their partner. It says something about a person if they're willing to screw over the person they supposedly love for a few minutes of pleasure... what will they do to people they have no use for?


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

If you enter an agreement with someone about being exclusive then turn around and break that agreement, then you don't care about them as much as what you had them believe.

It's a betrayal of trust which is a fundamental flaw in moral character.


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## Diacetylmorphine (Mar 9, 2011)

One of my co-workers speaks casually about sleeping with other women while his gf is at home. Makes me feel sorry for his girlfriend, even though I don't know her and gave me an uneasy feeling as he's a cool/friendly guy in general.


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## Morumot (Sep 21, 2011)

There is no excuse for cheating in an exclusive relationship. If you really cared for that person you wouldn't do it, however I know there are people that are not a fan of monogamy, it would be better that things like polygamy are accepted than these people going into a relationship with just one person and end up hurting the other person.


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## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

I think the only time cheating is excusable is if you're being abused or are with a volatile/dangerous partner who would be difficult to break up with. You still need to do it at some point, but you might need to get the police involved or get away from that situation somehow first, and I can understand why some people would be too scared to break it off.


In any other case, it's inexcusable.
You fell in love with someone else? Well, in that case, you owe it to both the person you love and the person you're currently with to break things up. It's just selfish to keep leading your current partner on and to keep the person you're cheating with confused and in the dark about what's going on between you two. In a way, you're cheating on both of them
If it's a drunken one time thing (or several one night stands) it just shows a lack of control over yourself. I think I'd be able to forgive if it happened once, but if it happens multiple times, it just shows you're not taking the relationship seriously.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

I don't condone dishonesty, but I also don't condone monogamy. It's unnatural.

If you are that bored, you either need to communicate what you are lacking and try to get it, or move on.

Go to a strip club and get a few couples dancing and go crazy in the car in the parking lot.

Go out and pick up chicks together, hell, make it a contest to see who can get the hotter broad that night. 

Swing!


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

I think it's possible for an otherwise moral person to make a mistake once especially if young. After late 20s they should have enough impulse control to not succumb that easily to opportunities so I judge older cheaters much more harshly. And anyone, at any age, who cheats a second time is probably a scumbag. If they haven't learnt from the first time round how much harm they caused, and they do it a second time, it's become a habit, they don't really care and they're probably some kind of low grade narcissist at least.


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## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

creep said:


> I don't know. I guess I don't really understand the question, I always simply took it for granted that the definition of a ****ty person, was a person who did ****ty things. If not that, then what?
> 
> Of course, we all do bad, dumb, stupid things at times, that get ourselves and other people hurt and that's forgivable up to a point. Wherein we learn from the consequences and act differently so as not to repeat those mistakes. When we cheat however, we are making a very conscious and deliberate decision based on something we've always known to be wrong, putting aside whatever personal honor we have, along with any regards we have towards the feelings of a person we presumably have made some kind of allegiance to, either formal or informal, for the sake of having something we want right now.
> 
> So why not just end the bad relationship, as opposed to betraying said person you're in it with and going on to give reasons that person, not you, are to blame for that thing, that it was you who actually did or whatever other various lame excuses are to be made?


Because not everything is so black or white, a partner gives a lot of financial saftey, also people who cheat don't hate their partner, also because of fear from change, temptation and more
Discussing the real problem is more difficult then sneaking behind someone's back.
It's not about 'blaming' it is just a bad situation the couple reached to.

Before you get into conclusions, I have never cheated.

Edit: you people make it sound like we are not part of the animal kingdom.


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

Most excuses for cheating come from people who are cheats, the fact is there is no reason to cheat, if your partner is treating you bad, leave, if your partner is bad in the sack, leave, if you fall out of love with your partner, leave, if you're staying for the kids sake, don't, there simply is no reason to cheat, cheaters are bad people, that's what it comes down to.

Also this 'mistake' excuse is one I've heard a lot, it's ridiculous, If I rape a 6 year old and it goes to court and I say it was a mistake, will that help me, no, because it wasn't a mistake, it was a conscious decision I made because I'm a bad selfish person that doesn't care about the person I am effecting with my behaviour.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

The cheater has committed a '_scumbag act_', but they are not necessarily a scumbag.

Cheating may be immoral, but you don't need to *be* immoral to *do something* immoral, so I don't think it's demonstrative of a "lack of moral character".

It's a _terrible_ thing to do to someone you supposedly care(d) about, and personally, I'd have a VERY difficult time trusting a cheater again (if I ever could), but it's a grey area.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

Schmosby said:


> Also this 'mistake' excuse is one I've heard a lot, it's ridiculous, If I rape a 6 year old and it goes to court and I say it was a mistake, will that help me, no


Cheating by having sex with a consenting partner is not equivalent to being a pedophile rapist.


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

wrongnumber said:


> Cheating by having sex with a consenting partner is not equivalent to being a pedophile rapist.


That doesn't make sense, you ARE cheating on your partner without their consent, but that wasn't the point I was making anyway, the point was that mistakes don't exists, 'It was a mistake' is just an excuse used by bad people to avoid taking responsibility for their own bad behaviour.


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## bloodymary (Apr 26, 2009)

It definitely is.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

Schmosby said:


> That doesn't make sense, you ARE cheating on your partner without their consent, but that wasn't the point I was making anyway, the point was that mistakes don't exists, 'It was a mistake' is just an excuse used by bad people to avoid taking responsibility for their own bad behaviour.


I meant sexual partner. Not the partner the cheater is in a relationship with.

Anyway it's common to act in bad judgement and make mistakes. You're saying everyone is of sound mind at all times and is never compromised. That's just false. Even in court they recognise that.


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

wrongnumber said:


> I meant sexual partner. Not the partner the cheater is in a relationship with.
> 
> Anyway it's common to act in bad judgement and make mistakes. You're saying everyone is of sound mind at all times and is never compromised. That's just false. Even in court they recognise that.


There is no reason for judgement in something that is black and white, it's wrong to rape a 6 year old and it's wrong to cheat, it's a shame there is no prison sentence for the latter.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

Schmosby said:


> There is no reason for judgement in something that is black and white, it's wrong to rape a 6 year old and it's wrong to cheat, it's a shame there is no prison sentence for the latter.


You might like the 17th century then.

It's not black and white. There are degrees of badness and your analogy is absurd.


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## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

About the mistake thing, weren't you ever pissed off and said things you regretted about later?


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

Umpalumpa said:


> About the mistake thing, weren't you ever pissed off and said things you regretted about later?


Yea sure, I wasted 12 years with an awful girlfriend, but that wasn't a black and white situation, I didn't know what I was doing was the wrong thing, she could have changed at some point or I could have grown to love her myriad of issues, however it did turn out she was a mistake.


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

wrongnumber said:


> You might like the 17th century then.
> 
> It's not black and white. There are degrees of badness and your analogy is absurd.


I believe in execution for high level crimes and I believe in hard labour followed by execution for second offences for low level crime. I have no idea why we are so soft on bad people, just get rid of the junk and let good people lead decent lives.

Purposely hurting somebody mentally vs. purposely hurting somebody mentally, yes now I see that is an absurd comparison.


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

I think it is inexcusable yes. It really bothers me because it is something that I would never do to somebody. If the relationship is dead, break up, dont sleep around a bit then break up. If the relationship is going badly, try to fix it or break up. If the relationship is going well, wtf are you doing?

Simple as that. Just don't do it. Its like trying to justify rape (obviously a difference in severity of crimes), its never right, ever. Nobody ever says "He just succumbed to his sexual desires", no. You do not say that, you say it is wrong. So excusing cheating in an agreed monogamous relationship any different.


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## Azazello (May 12, 2013)

Schmosby said:


> I believe in execution for high level crimes and I believe in hard labour followed by execution for second offences for low level crime. I have no idea why we are so soft on bad people, just get rid of the junk and let good people lead decent lives.
> 
> Purposely hurting somebody mentally vs. purposely hurting somebody mentally, yes now I see that is an absurd comparison.


There is not a single thing I agree with in the above post, in fact I find it abhorrent, however, I do agree with your stance on cheating, in that it is a choice. Mistake in this case is nothing but a bad choice, one people should learn to accept responsibility for.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

Uh....it's a commitment sure....but you are not a slave to that person.

Pretty sure no one owns me, and if I make the decision to bang a person that is our decision to make.

I think the best way is to know how to keep love and lust separate and partake in open relationships. It's not conventional, but it makes more sense than being jealous and insecure to me.


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## MoonlitMadness (Mar 11, 2013)

Why isn't monogamy natural? Why don't open relationships seem to work in most cases, if this is the case? Why do we get jealous when we have to share our other half with someone else, emotionally or physically?

I don't think there is any excuse for cheating. A lot of people here seem to act like we are animals consumed by lust who can't take into account that we are emotional beings. I mean I know there are a hell of a lot of men and women who pretty much are just animals, but hey.


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## MoonlitMadness (Mar 11, 2013)

Implicate said:


> Uh....it's a commitment sure....but you are not a slave to that person.
> 
> Pretty sure no one owns me, and if I make the decision to bang a person that is our decision to make.
> 
> I think the best way is to know how to keep love and lust separate and partake in open relationships. It's not conventional, but it makes more sense than being jealous and insecure to me.


Yes because an open relationship would banish all feelings of insecurity and jealousy.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

MoonlitMadness said:


> Yes because an open relationship would banish all feelings of insecurity and jealousy.


No, but a person that is not insecure and jealous can handle an open relationship.


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## apx24 (Jan 31, 2012)

Everyone has flaws in their characters. I don't approve of cheating, but people who don't cheat also do **** things.


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## Glass Child (Feb 28, 2013)

I despise cheaters with my full being.
If they pride themselves on being trustworthy and solid in a relationship, while proceeding to later lie about such, then there is something very wrong with that individual.


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

Implicate said:


> Uh....it's a commitment sure....but you are not a slave to that person.
> 
> Pretty sure no one owns me, and if I make the decision to bang a person that is our decision to make.
> 
> I think the best way is to know how to keep love and lust separate and partake in open relationships. It's not conventional, but it makes more sense than being jealous and insecure to me.


Nobody is saying you are slave, you a free to make that choice, but you would only make that choice if you have a lack of moral character.

If you agree with your partner to be in an open relationship, then cheating is not occurring, which does not fit the theme of this thread.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

The idea of committing yourself to one sexual partner for the rest of your life is just so absurd. It's delusional, the world is dynamic, eventually you will crave to expand your horizons.

If you are committed to a person and you cheat, well then you dun goofed. If you think someone succumbing to getting their dick wet then copping to it is life or death or the end of the world...well you need to gain some perspective then.

Pale blue dot, bros.


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

Implicate said:


> The idea of committing yourself to one sexual partner for the rest of your life is just so absurd. It's delusional, the world is dynamic, eventually you will crave to expand your horizons.
> 
> If you are committed to a person and you cheat, well then you dun goofed. If you think someone succumbing to getting their dick wet then copping to it is life or death or the end of the world...well you need to gain some perspective then.


I love the idea of being faithful, I can only imagine you see it as absurd because you are selfish and unable to control yourself.

You cannot be committed to a person and cheat, if you cheat you were not committed.

I don't for a second see my partner cheating as the end of the world, I see it as the end of our relationship and the start of a new chapter in my life.


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

There is a difference between cheating, and being in an open relationship. It is only unacceptable to sleep with people outside your relationship if you have the understanding of a monogamous relationship. If you wish to be in an open relationship you should state so early on, to avoid being a prick.

I crave a lot of things, to hit people who piss me off, to smash things when im angry, but that doesn't mean I do whatever the hell I want when I want. It is called self control. If you can't even commit to not sleeping with multiple people, then you have a problem in my eyes. I am not saying open relationships are bad, I am saying that it is unacceptable to lie to a partner who trusts you and believes its a monogamous relationship just so you can full fill some lustful desire.

If more people were able to be in open relationships, I could see the benefits, however it seems that most people are not able to do that.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Implicate said:


> No, but a person that is not insecure and jealous can handle an open relationship.


No. It is a person that is not investing much feelings that can handle an open relationship.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

You guys keep your purity rings commitments, different strokes for different folks.

I think the greater issue is that of people wanting to break free of monogamy, but fear deviation from societal norms.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

wrongnumber said:


> Anyway it's common to act in bad judgement and make mistakes. You're saying everyone is of sound mind at all times and is never compromised. That's just false. Even in court they recognise that.


Really!? Do drunkards get away with anything in a court cause they were drunk? No, it actually makes it worse. Do people that are not sound get away in court because of that? Are they just let to go back home? I thought they are usually simply locked up in a mental hospital.

Not to mention the insanity defense is rarely accepted in a court nowadays. Some US states have even banned this kind of defense. You have to be bat**** crazy and prove you were completely out of touch with reality.

Moreover, if you know you have an issue, you go to a psychiatrist and ask for treatement. Nobody has to take this sort of **** just cause you are using your mental issues to get away with it. That's no excuse. If you would have given a damn, at least,you would have tried to do something about it. If the treatement didnt work, give him a heads up so he will be able to make a decision.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Implicate said:


> You guys keep your purity rings commitments, different strokes for different folks.
> 
> I think the greater issue is that of people wanting to break free of monogamy, but fear deviation from societal norms.


Riiight.... You have solved the puzzle.


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

Implicate said:


> You guys keep your purity rings commitments, different strokes for different folks.
> 
> I think the greater issue is that of people wanting to break free of monogamy, but fear deviation from societal norms.


That isn't the issue here, the issue is that you are sidestepping the moral responsibilities of a couple in a monogamous relationship. It isn't about open relationships where cheating is impossible. It is about committed couples where one person breaks the commitment. There is no way to justify that. The problem is not just that they cheated, but that trust is now broken and it can never be restored if you break it on such a high level. That is how insecurities are made.

You suggesting "you dun goofed" means you think of cheating as not a big deal, which is fine. But for someone who wants to trust the persons word that they will not cheat on them, it is a huge sign that their character is flawed. Sure kissing someone while drunk and them confessing when they see you isnt the end of the world, and I would get past it probably. But if you had sex with a friend you had known for a long time and then I found out, that is not "dun goofed", that is see you later *******.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Implicate said:


> You guys keep your purity rings commitments, different strokes for different folks.
> 
> I think the greater issue is that of people wanting to break free of monogamy, but fear deviation from societal norms.


Actually I don't think that's it. You know what many if not most people want to do? They want to have a stable faithful partner while they get to screw around here and there. And of course their partner is not allowed to do the same.

Like I saw a lot of college guys that had girlfriends (high school sweetheart) in their hometowns but went to parties in their new city and cheated all the time. They wouldn't break up with their girlfriend because the thought of her being with another guy kills them. Pure hypocrisy.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

komorikun said:


> They want to have a stable faithful partner while they get to screw around here and there. And of course their partner is not allowed to do the same.
> 
> Like I saw a lot of college guys that had girlfriends (high school sweetheart) in their hometowns but went to parties in their new city and cheated all the time.


Agree on this.

Will you, now, ask yourself whether you are indeed right?


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

Durzo said:


> I crave a lot of things, to hit people who piss me off, to smash things when im angry, but that doesn't mean I do whatever the hell I want when I want. It is called self control. If you can't even commit to not sleeping with multiple people, then you have a problem in my eyes. I am not saying open relationships are bad, I am saying that it is unacceptable to lie to a partner who trusts you and believes its a monogamous relationship just so you can full fill some lustful desire.


I was totally going to give that example.



creep said:


> I am sure there are lots of basically very good people who do cheat. Good in that they generally care about others, give to charities, are pleasant to be around, don't want to hurt anyone and all that.


I find this hard to believe, I imagine if you care about others, you wouldn't choose to hurt your partner.



creep said:


> But it is indicative of a major flaw in one's character, the cheater's whole moral universe only extends as far as what feels good and what is easy. Feeling good isn't enough of a basis for morality, its too short sighted. To be a truly moral person one needs a code of conduct, otherwise we are like to be thoughtlessly sidetracked down whatever dark path appears in our way.
> 
> I think a lot will come down to how we view ourselves. Some people value the promises they make of themselves more so than others do. Even the desires we have to do right by and not to hurt the person we are with can temporarily become clouded in the face of certain temptation. Its the question of do we want to save our personal honor, to be able to continue to be able to think of ourselves as someone worthy of being trusted or do we just want to feel good for the time being.


Agreed.



sad vlad said:


> Really!? Do drunkards get away with anything in a court cause they were drunk? No, it actually makes it worse. Do people that are not sound get away in court because of that? Are they just let to go back home? I thought they are usually simply locked up in a mental hospital.


Agreed.



Durzo said:


> That isn't the issue here, the issue is that you are sidestepping the moral responsibilities of a couple in a monogamous relationship. It isn't about open relationships where cheating is impossible. It is about committed couples where one person breaks the commitment. There is no way to justify that. The problem is not just that they cheated, but that trust is now broken and it can never be restored if you break it on such a high level. That is how insecurities are made.
> 
> You suggesting "you dun goofed" means you think of cheating as not a big deal, which is fine. But for someone who wants to trust the persons word that they will not cheat on them, it is a huge sign that their character is flawed. Sure kissing someone while drunk and them confessing when they see you isnt the end of the world, and I would get past it probably. But if you had sex with a friend you had known for a long time and then I found out, that is not "dun goofed", that is see you later *******.


Exactly! except I wouldn't tolerate anything that I consider cheating, which includes kissing, sharing a bed, even cuddling or holding hands if in the wrong context.



komorikun said:


> Actually I don't think that's it. You know what many if not most people want to do? They want to have a stable faithful partner while they get to screw around here and there. And of course their partner is not allowed to do the same.
> 
> Like I saw a lot of college guys that had girlfriends (high school sweetheart) in their hometowns but went to parties in their new city and cheated all the time. They wouldn't break up with their girlfriend because the thought of her being with another guy kills them. Pure hypocrisy.


I think the attitude you describe is exactly true of cheats, however I would disagree that this is what most people want, I don't think most people are cheats, at least I hope not.


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## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

If you're cheating, you either aren't happy in your relationship, and for some reason might be unwilling or unable to end it, or you're just very bad at controlling your lust. In both cases someone lacks a backbone in my eyes, because you could just break off the relationship before you start messing around. So yes, to me it is a sign of having ****ty morals.


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## perennial wallflower (Feb 17, 2014)

Suggests poor impulse control and a lack of consideration, which are general flaws.


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## Canucklehead (Aug 28, 2012)

Of course it is, and unfortunately, every girl ive been with has had trhis flaw :/

Where are the chicks with character >_<


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## Slytherclaw (Jul 16, 2011)

I can't say either way. It depends on how and why it happened. Not all cheaters are evil, but not all of them are innocent, either. That's just life, I guess.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> Really!? Do drunkards get away with anything in a court cause they were drunk? No, it actually makes it worse. Do people that are not sound get away in court because of that? Are they just let to go back home? I thought they are usually simply locked up in a mental hospital.
> 
> Not to mention the insanity defense is rarely accepted in a court nowadays. Some US states have even banned this kind of defense. You have to be bat**** crazy and prove you were completely out of touch with reality.


Did I ever say it was an excuse? No. I just said courts do recognise not everyone is of sound mind. In fact because of this there is a move towards rehabilitation over retribution in the legal system. That often includes such as things as requiring drunkards to complete drink driving rehabilitation programs among many other examples. And btw I'm not just including the US legal system.



sad vlad said:


> Moreover, if you know you have an issue, you go to a psychiatrist and ask for treatement. Nobody has to take this sort of **** just cause you are using your mental issues to get away with it. That's no excuse. If you would have given a damn, at least,you would have tried to do something about it. If the treatement didnt work, give him a heads up so he will be able to make a decision.


I've no idea why you are saying this or how it's relevant. If you're trying to say people who cheat should voluntarily seek treatment, well not everyone feels they need treatment for that. And as I've already said, the ones who don't care won't bother trying to change.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

Have I cheated, yes. Did I come clean about it, yes. Did I feel guilty and did we fight a little, sure. it didn't ruin the relationship, stars didn't fall from the sky, the world still turns.

Morality, you say I am skirting moral responsibility and I say you don't understand the subjectivity of morality or my opposition to people trying to force others to their code of conduct.

I acknowledge that lying and being deceptive is lying and being deceptive. Judging the character of a person based solely on one act, especially not knowing circumstances...I don't carry that sort of bias.

What I am basically saying is that judging someone so harshly over something so insignificant...aye, cannot...fathom, head exploding. 

The norms of society, IE marriage, do put pressure on monogamy, in a very thorough way, it saturates our culture. To say that societal pressure and fear of judgment don't contribute to single partner relationships id pretty silly. The depths of the influence aren't something tangible to be measured, so I wouldn't expect many of you to be able to conceptualize that though.


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## templar19 (May 12, 2009)

Schmosby said:


> I believe in execution for high level crimes and I believe in hard labour followed by execution for second offences for low level crime. I have no idea why we are so soft on bad people, just get rid of the junk and let good people lead decent lives.


I think the 17th century would be a bit too bohemian for you. Have you considered 7th century Greece? You and Draco would've been tight.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Implicate said:


> What I am basically saying is that judging someone so harshly over something so insignificant...aye, cannot...fathom, head exploding.


 I think you will find the problem is most do not agree that cheating is something "so insignificant". It can destroy people for life when it comes to trust, that's significant.


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## tea111red (Nov 8, 2005)

Not saying I'd do it, but I can definitely understand why some people would cheat under certain circumstances.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

tea111red said:


> Not saying I'd do it, but I can definitely understand why some people would cheat under certain circumstances.


You have started with a false premise which can only lead to a false conclusion.

There are NO CIRCUMSTANCES. So no excuses. Fullstop.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

If you're in a relationship and prepared to commit yourself to the act of cheating, then there must be something inherently problematic in the relationship. That's not to say that it is an excuse, rather, should you feel such a compulsion to carry through with it, then obviously you shouldn't be in the relationship to start with. It's unfair on your partner, as is emotional cheating. As human beings we deserve common respect, this should be implicit as it works both ways. Not all relationships work out, but that's no excuse to cheat on your SO when things get tough. Sort out your problems, or move on.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

wrongnumber said:


> Did I ever say it was an excuse? No. I just said courts do recognise not everyone is of sound mind.


Yes, that's what you did. You came up with an excuse: people can make bad judgements or not be mentally sound. Which implies their behaviour should not be judged too badly cause they had a reasonable excuse. Well, 2 excuses that could be connected. Cause one can make bad judgements while being mentally ill, drunk or mentally challenged. I've brought counter-arguments for first 2. Drunk or mentally ill. I've considered mentally ill argument to be more interesting.

As I have explained, you have used some legal _exceptions_ to back up those arguments. Those are not _rules_ and are rarely applied. I was adding that even those few people for which your legal exceptions are applied(Bat**** crazy with impaired judgement_ in the moment of the crime_), are not excused for what they did.

They have still comitted a crime, they are still guilty. The difference is they are not going to prison but get locked up in a mental hospital. They are not simply let back on the streets like innocents. So they do not really get away with it.

Most people that are mentally ill, but could distinguish between right and wrong at the moment of the crime, _do go to jail_.



wrongnumber said:


> I've no idea why you are saying this or how it's relevant. If you're trying to say people who cheat should voluntarily seek treatment, well not everyone feels they need treatment for that. And as I've already said, the ones who don't care won't bother trying to change.


It is relevant cause it is connected to the mentally ill excuse. If you know you have any sort of mental issues you should ask for help as for any other disease. You shouldn't feel everyone should just swallow everything you are doing cause you are not mentally well. Very few of these people are so sick that they are completely out of touch with reality. Most of them, and most of the time, they can distinguish between right and wrong(for example we, those with a diagnosis of standalone SA). They know what they are doing is bad, that it will get someone hurt in the process and that there will be consequences to deal with after that episode is over.

If you know there is something wrong with you, having moments when you can't control yourself and have random mindless sex, plus you do not want to seek help, you should let your partner know about your issues beforehand. So he can decide whether he should take the risk of being cheated on or not. Not telling him is done with an intent(trick him, manipulate him, being selfish, trying to get away with it, whatever). So a moral issue. Therefore, not an excuse.

For those very few cases when the individual is so disturbed that is constantly and completely out of it, the potential life partner is, most likely, already aware anything could happen. I still don't consider it an excuse but the partner can make an informed decision about it beforehand. If he/she gets in that relationship he/she is doing it on his/her own risk.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

AussiePea said:


> I think you will find the problem is most do not agree that cheating is something "so insignificant". It can destroy people for life when it comes to trust, that's significant.


It's not significant when you do it, but it is when someone else does it to you. Weird how that works.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

diamondheart89 said:


> It's not significant when you do it, but it is when someone else does it to you. Weird how that works.


Wouldn't that imply everyone is doing it? I hardly doubt that.

Some are doing it and some are not. Those that are doing it will hurt those that are not. Different moral standards. If there is a relationship where they are both doing it, they both have moral issues and there is obviously no love.


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## wrongnumber (May 24, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> Yes, that's what you did. You came up with an excuse: people can make bad judgements or not be mentally sound. Which implies their behaviour should not be judged too badly cause they had a reasonable excuse. Well, 2 excuses that could be connected. Cause one can make bad judgements while being mentally ill, drunk or mentally challenged. I've brought counter-arguments for first 2. Drunk or mentally ill. I've considered mentally ill argument to be more interesting.


No I never said anything of the sort. It's not my problem if you misinterpret and insert your own assumptions into my posts. Unlike you and some others here I can actually see nuances in people's behaviour and understand why some people may be susceptible to behaving in certain ways under certain circumstances. That does not translate to me thinking their bad behaviour should be 'excused'.

My only argument is that I believe otherwise moral people can slip up and do immoral things. It's when they have a pattern of behaving in an immoral way that I'd believe they were of bad character.



sad vlad said:


> As I have explained, you have used some legal _exceptions_ to back up those arguments. Those are not _rules_ and are rarely applied. I was adding that even those few people for which your legal exceptions are applied(Bat**** crazy with impaired judgement_ in the moment of the crime_), are not excused for what they did.


I don't know what these legal exceptions you are referring to are. If you're talking about rehabilitation programs, they are routinely ordered, and are the rule not the exception now.



sad vlad said:


> It is relevant cause it is connected to the mentally ill excuse. If you know you have any sort of mental issues you should ask for help as for any other disease...


This has no bearing on anything I've said since I never mentioned anything about excuses.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

diamondheart89 said:


> It's not significant when you do it, but it is when someone else does it to you. Weird how that works.


Yeah for sure, and yes, it ****ing hurts. It's the lack of respect which I think is more painful than the act too, the fact they would intentionally do so knowing the pain they are going to cause the other. *angry word which would get me into trouble*


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

@ wrongnumber:

I will agree with you on only one idea: _Understanding an action is one thing, excusing it is another. _

I can understand plenty of things but I will not excuse them by any means.


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## templar19 (May 12, 2009)

Cheating on someone after you've promised fealty to him/her is at base due to moral weakness or simple immorality. But flaws are not always as ingrained or intrinsic as some may think. A serial cheater, who continues to cheat on his partner even after professed shame and contrition, is probably always going to cheat, and a person who cheats even once, even if he's never caught, has committed an atrocity against his partner. But even the worst sinners can learn and grow from their atrocities, although I don't blame their partner if s/he can never trust him again.


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## templar19 (May 12, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> You have started with a false premise which can only lead to a false conclusion.


Not so. Observe:

The moon is made of green cheese. (False premise)

Thus, 2+2=4. (True conclusion)


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## Lacking Serotonin (Nov 18, 2012)

You have to be committed to be in a relationship and cheating is not being committed.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

templar19 said:


> Not so. Observe:
> 
> The moon is made of green cheese. (False premise)
> 
> Thus, 2+2=4. (True conclusion)


:roflThat was a good one.
If only those two were related in any way.


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## templar19 (May 12, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> :roflThat was a good one.
> If only those two were related in any way.


And who said a premise and conclusion must be related? No one.
Premises can be as outlandish as you like.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

templar19 said:


> And who said a premise and conclusion must be related? No one.
> Premises can be as outlandish as you like.


Riiiiiiight... :rofl


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## plastics (Apr 11, 2010)

Cheating isn't the right thing to do. Point blank, end of story. It hurts people, and I don't see how hurting people in anyway is a good or right thing to do. 
The excuses people make are stupid. We come from the animal kingdom..so what? I'm not a monkey. I can control myself. Sure, there's always going to be that % of any person's mind that thinks about sex. But there's a difference between thinking and actually doing it. 
If a single guy wants to bang 10 girls in a week, and those girls willingly accepted such a thing, then okay. Hell, if he's an alright guy and we have the same interests, I'd even be his friend. But if he thinks he can have a girlfriend and go cheat on her, then that's just being an ******* and setting someone up to be hurt. If you don't like someone or you get bored easily, break up or don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend. What's the point, why hurt someone? And just saying "Oh, well they shouldn't be hurt, it's natural" that's not a valid excuse. It's taking no responsibility for your actions, not to mention it's immature. Life is responsibility. And if a person doesn't care about that, then yes, they are lacking moral character.


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## templar19 (May 12, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> Riiiiiiight... :rofl


I TAed critical thinking and logic twice as a graduate student, and this is the very first notion we try and relieve students of by the end of the first week: that an argument must have true premises in order to have a true conclusion. You should do the same...it'll help you out. 

I've enclosed some study material: http://legacy.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/log/tru-val.htm


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

templar19 said:


> I TAed critical thinking and logic twice as a graduate student, and this is the very first notion we try and relieve students of by the end of the first week: that an argument must have true premises in order to have a true conclusion. You should do the same...it'll help you out.
> 
> I've enclosed some study material: http://legacy.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/log/tru-val.htm


I thought you are joking at first. 
Now I see you are trying to transform my common sense(well, according to my point of view) reply to a post, into a Logic debate, with a book in front of you, looking at things purely theoretically, introducing new notions and so on. That was never my intention. Otherwise I would have constructed that reply in a way so it would have been immune to that sort of theory.

Anyway, I read that material.

It comes with the following logic:
If A is B and B is C, then A could be C.

An interconnected system of false premises. If you apply that logic strictly to your theory, it could, in some ocassions, be true. Not a rule, but an exception. 
Ok.

But in my original post there was a single false premise and a single conclusion derived from it. So I don't know whether your previous logic does apply here or not. If it does apply, wouldn't mere luck render that conclusion as true? I don't see what luck has to do with the initial topic, once you strip it of all theory.

I've studied Logic 15 years ago. Way too long ago and I don't want to re-check it now.


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## masterbear (Mar 5, 2014)

Seems like most of the women think cheating can be justified. No wonder 70% of divorces...


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

I really can't get inside the head of someone that cheats. I just don't get it, and as someone who has been cheated on multiple times it really pisses me off. It's like lying, or stealing a car, you just don't f****** do it. You're taught from a really early age that you just don't do it. Break up if you have to, and move on. Don't play games with peoples lives, with their emotions. Just don't.


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## housebunny (Oct 22, 2010)

I never cheated sexually but I did emotionally. My bf was neglecting me and seemed to always be more interested in his own needs than mine. I was sad. I eventually did break up with him; he was always flirting.


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## ThisGirl15 (Mar 1, 2014)

Ntln said:


> I think the only time cheating is excusable is if you're being abused or are with a volatile/dangerous partner who would be difficult to break up with. You still need to do it at some point, but you might need to get the police involved or get away from that situation somehow first, and I can understand why some people would be too scared to break it off.
> 
> In any other case, it's inexcusable.
> You fell in love with someone else? Well, in that case, you owe it to both the person you love and the person you're currently with to break things up. It's just selfish to keep leading your current partner on and to keep the person you're cheating with confused and in the dark about what's going on between you two. In a way, you're cheating on both of them
> If it's a drunken one time thing (or several one night stands) it just shows a lack of control over yourself. I think I'd be able to forgive if it happened once, but if it happens multiple times, it just shows you're not taking the relationship seriously.


This^

Yes people make mistakes sometimes, but the majority of the time cheating is just selfish. I've seen so many nasty divorces happen because one spouse was selfish enough to cheat, and they sure did a good job at messing up the kids.


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