# SSRI's and Squashed Creativity



## shana (Mar 9, 2009)

Hi,

Does anyone who is taking SSRI's work in a creative-type of job which requires them to use creativity? Such as an artist, art teacher, graphic designer, designer, video editor, director, writer, producer, etc.? 
Or is anyone taking SSRI's while enrolled in a creative major in college, such as art? 
I'm taking Zoloft and I'm in a creative degree track in college and taking a Video production course and I'm afraid that the med is squashing my creativity.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Well, I found that when I was on Zoloft/Remeron my creativity was at it's peak. I was getting some awesome ideas. But the effect wore off after a couple of months and now I'm hoping to restore it with adding Wellbutrin to the Zoloft. I find that higher doses of zoloft 200+ work best for creativity as that's when its dopaminergic effects kick in. I was on 200mg zoloft and 45mg remeron. I tried 300mg zoloft for a bit and it was awesome but I didn't think my doc would go for it so never asked.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I never noticed a loss in creativity when on SSRI's and SNRI's. But I have noticed that I often have much more creative ideas then when I was on SSRI's. Also When I was on SSRI's I seemed to have a very short attention span and would get really frustrated when working on projects that I had to think creatively on. So thinking about it now I guess I did have much more trouble being creative while taking ssri's.


I don't have a traditional job that requires creativity nor am in school seeking a degree in a field that requires creativity. But I have a farm so I have to creative all day while I find solutions to problems. Fixing things, creating things... Real world creativity I guess.

I've never been able to draw and my drawing skills which were sickening to begin with got no worse while no ssri's. I think that just speaks to the fact that my drawing skills are as bad as they will ever be.

I hope you can work out a solution to this that will will allow you to stay well and keep your career moving well. Good luck.


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## ourwater (Jun 2, 2012)

I don't know, I used to write scripts for movies. While on Zoloft it was not that different, although I was dehydrated a lot, so I had to get up and get a drink such as a soda all the time. My ADHD was very bad on them also, to the point it caused depression. I was treating PTSD, and causing depression.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

I noticed that I have actually been a lot more creative since I have been on Zoloft. I am much more quick witted, and ideas seem to just pop into my head uninhibited.


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## Inspiron (Nov 30, 2011)

I use to be on SSRI and I didn't really notice a loss in creativity, however I did notice that I felt emotionally numb and more depressed, therefore I couldn't really focus on my school work. If you are getting good grades while on medications than all the power to you just make sure to be well-informed.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inspiron said:


> I use to be on SSRI and I didn't really notice a loss in creativity, however I did notice that I felt emotionally numb and more depressed, therefore I couldn't really focus on my school work. If you are getting good grades while on medications than all the power to you just make sure to be well-informed.


Well-informed about what? creativity?

What should I know about creativity. I do well in every part of my life but I guess I am not well informed about creativity. Since you know better than everyone, would you please help me learn all of these facts?

Sorry to hear that you did so poorly in school. But you are an expert in marketing right, in-fact you know everything about it after merely obtaining a bachelors degree. Marketing is a creative filed. You must be genius. Boy, you are a super valuable resource to inform me about creativity, what should I know, and how gain "more power" like you said Shana has?

Thanks.

PS- It's so cool that you are so helpful to everyone on these boards. Your are so generous and a real lovely lady.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

there was a study conducted on the emotional side-effects of ssris. for many, according to the study and anecdotes scattered all over the internet, there are indeed emotional side effects which could account for the lessened degree of creativity you are experiencing. it is important to note that the study found the emotional side effects associated with ssris to be perceived as both positive by some and negative by others. below is the link to the study as well as a few excerpts that may be relevant to your situation.

should the impact the ssri is having upon your creativity become bothersome, but the ssri is working to control your anxiety and/or depression, then there are augmentation strategies used in order to address such issues. physicians often augment with mirtazapine which purportedly alleviates a variety of perceived ssri side effects via way of its serotonergic antagonism and noradrenergic activity and/or via its a2-adrenergic autoreceptor/heteroreceptor antagonism which in turn has various effects on the adrenergic and serotonergic systems, respectively. one may also augment with trazodone, which has similar sertonergic antagonistic activity, although unlike mirtazapine, trazodone is not an indirect agonist of the 5ht1a receptor, but rather acts as a partial agonist of said receptor site in a manner similar to buspirone, vilazodone, and aripiprazole, et al. additionally, many augment with bupropion, which is believed to counter bothersome side effects associated with the ssris via its inhibition of the reuptake of norepinephrine and, to a much lesser extent, dopamine. other physicians may get creative using other dopaminergic and/or noradrenergic agents, e.g. dopamine agonists, stimulants, norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, etc.

you can also discuss with your prescribing doctor whether a switch to another agent would be beneficial, e.g. to bupropion, mirtazapine, atomoxetine, buspirone, trazodone, etc., provided augmenting doesn't prove to be sufficient. although prior to making a switch, you may want to inquire about lowering the dose of the ssri while augmenting. if you're afflicted by severe anxiety, pregabalin and gabapentin are out-of-class alternatives, with lamotrigine being efficacious for depression. there's also the selegiline transdermal patch, emsam. you have a lot of options!

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/195/3/211.full


> Almost all participants described not caring about things that used to matter to them and attributed this change to their SSRI antidepressant.
> 
> Many participants described a general feeling of indifference to things in life that used to matter to them. Many participants described feeling apathetic and unmotivated, despite their illness having improved and attributed this apathy to their antidepressant.


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

"Reduced inspiration, imagination, motivation and passion for and enjoyment of creative activities had adversely affected some participants’ creativity."

From the same study.


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

Yeah, I had emotional blunting along with creative blunting while on Zoloft. Beware.


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## Andre (Feb 27, 2004)

istayhome said:


> Well-informed about what? creativity?
> 
> What should I know about creativity. I do well in every part of my life but I guess I am not well informed about creativity. Since you know better than everyone, would you please help me learn all of these facts?
> 
> ...


Why the attack? I don't get it.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Rufus said:


> Why the attack? I don't get it.


Inspiron posts the same thing on every thread, which she thinks is necessary advise, but she has decided not to talk to me. So she never advises me and wish she would help me understand the meaning of her posts as she attaches great importance to what she writes. It was not intended to be an attack. It was a cry for help. I need her advice but she never replies to me.


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## Inshallah (May 11, 2011)

istayhome said:


> Inspiron posts the same thing on every thread, which she thinks is necessary advise, but she has decided not to talk to me. So she never advises me and wish she would help me understand the meaning of her posts as she attaches great importance to what she writes. It was not intended to be an attack. It was a cry for help. I need her advice but she never replies to me.


Have you ever read one of Dr. Peter Breggin's books? I'm sure you'll plenty of good advise in them :teeth


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Inshallah said:


> Have you ever read one of Dr. Peter Breggin's books? I'm sure you'll plenty of good advise in them :teeth


Yes, I actually heard of him almost a decade ago. As Inspiron sung his praise I have researched him and his work much more extensively. I read his webiste, affiliate site and everything related to him I wasted about six hours watching videos of him on youtube speaking in litigation's, before the FDA and his own lectures. Insprion said I had to watch them so I would understand that he knows everything and that the government gives him top-secret Intel that proves psychiatry is a fraud and that psychiatric medicine is designed to kill people. She said he has access all of the super-secret data regarding pharmaceuticals that is hidden from the public, etc, etc, etc.

His is not a Scientologist but publicly endorses the church of Scientology's view of medicine. He is a walking joke and Inspiron is his blind soldier.


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## kg85 (Oct 19, 2011)

I have a high demanding intellectual job, not that much with creativity, but anyway i think creativity is one of the 4 pilars of brain intelligence. Zoloft was completely awful for me, but what didnt work for me doesnt mean it will not for you...

I could concentrate, and i felt emotionally and intellectualy numb... I discovered ssris are not for me!


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## shana (Mar 9, 2009)

Thank you for that research study BasuraEuropea


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

shana said:


> Thank you for that research study BasuraEuropea


no problem!


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

ThatOneQuietGuy said:


> I noticed that I have actually been a lot more creative since I have been on Zoloft. I am much more quick witted, and ideas seem to just pop into my head uninhibited.


I agree. This is how i felt/feel


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Reading the title of the thread and the OP. It summoned up the questions often asked about that of the troubled, mentally ill artist. If the unmedicated, unadulterated, troubled minds were a necessary sacrifice for their creative zeniths? Or if given meds. and treated properly, their creative essence would/will remain intact and the works would come to fruition?

Such a great talent but such a troubled man/women is often the refrain. Amongst their ranks artists: painters, writers, musicians, etc- the Van Gogh's, Pollock's, Hemingway's, Plath's, Mozart's, and Cobain's of the world. Is the mental pain and illness, as severe as it may be, a necessary and integral part to the creative process for them? Could and can these people produce the works they do while using psych. meds.? Do they need to suffer every moment, of every minute, of every hour, of every day?

In fact the brilliant author David Foster Wallace, who was an alcoholic and drug user, had nardil, clonazepam, and temazepam, in his system at the time of his suicide.

http://gawker.com/5069896/three-new-details-in-david-foster-wallaces-autopsy-report

Wallace stopped the nardil after a bad reaction. He also had twelve bouts of electroshock therapy and an aborted return to the Nardil.

http://gawker.com/5068664/why-david-foster-wallace-killed-himself

Wallce's addictions, psychiatric illness, and stay at a psychiatric institution was a major influence and used as a reference point interwoven in the story-lines of his masterwork, "Infinite Jest". The 1079 page novel was published in 1996.

http://www.theawl.com/2011/04/inside-david-foster-wallaces-private-self-help-library

He eventually stopped his meds. after "Infinite Jest". He was having difficulty with writers block and felt the meds. were possibly stifling his creativity. He delved into another bout of severe depression. His pdoc started him back on medication. But this time it came to late. wallace hung himself on 9/12/2008.

So would a Van Gogh treated with today's medications have the same quality of work? Would he have made _The Starry Night_, _The Night Café_, _Irises_, etc.?

David Foster Wallace, who suffered from depression and SAD, was on nardil when he wrote many of his essays and "Infinite Jest".

"To the eyes of a miser a guinea is more beautiful than the sun, and a bag worn with the use of money has more beautiful proportions than a vine filled with grapes."
-William Blake (1757-1827) British poet and painter.

"I would not have traded the delights of my suffering for anything in the world." 
― Gabriel Garcí*a Márquez, Memories of My Melancholy *****s

"I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more." 
― C.S. Lewis

"Many people hear voices when no one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing." 
- Margaret Chittenden

"Art is a house that tries to be haunted." 
- Emily Dickinson

I tend to sway towards the need for many of these artists to be dragged through their personal hell to fully realize their full potential creatively, to hit the highest mark they can reach. Yes, they suffer as individuals and their personal lives implode or they slowly and painfully burn out. But that is the trade off for their craft. So to live with the inner demons, in the hope that at some point, at least some body of their work will hit a collective chord in the consciousness of the human spirit and will transcend the test of time, become timeless and find rank amongst the great artistic gifts in the annuals of humanity. A hall mark, a bench mark, that is read, studied, anaylyzed, listened to and is most of all cherished. I believe misery is a creative geyser and an invaluable tool for many.

I believe Wallace was an exception to the rule, an anomally of an artist whose inherit pain was his watershed and creative spout to put pen to paper. But that nardil was needed to actually get him out of bed,keep him alive and to actually keep the sentences, paragraphs,pages and storylines going. It was needed to channel the deep depression, the haunting thoughts, the crippling anxiety. Once thrust into the spotlight as, 'the greatest writer of his generation', and put under the microscope, it became to much. Everyone was waiting for what was to come after "Infinite Jest". Even the critics realized it would be an act of divine intervention for Wallace to somehow have it in him to tap into some inner reserve and write a book that would come close to the same scope and brillance, to even belong in the same ballpark. During the time in between novels, two short story collections and some non-fiction pieces and essays were published including a collection of essays "Consider the Lobster". Still there was no follow up novel, so anticipated. As time passed, Wallace froze under the pressure and struggled to fight through a monumental creative block. Instead of something anything, there would be nothing. Wallace could not churn or crank a completed novel.Sadly, instead he caved in and clocked out. The novel, "The Pale King" was published (2011) posthumously in unfinished form.

Let's not forget the other side to the doom and gloom. The land of sun, where the Walt Whitman's, the Bob Marley's, and the vegetarian Da Vinci exist. The great artists that can actually crack a smile, laugh, and have done masterworks on a legendary, monumental level. Who would have thunk it!


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Nardil work completly on all neurotransmitters - dopamine, noradrenaline, serotonin. 

SSRI works only od serotonin so it could lower dopamine transmission. I think good dopamine transmission is necessary for creativity.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

mikoy said:


> Nardil work completly on all neurotransmitters - dopamine, noradrenaline, serotonin.
> 
> SSRI works only od serotonin so it could lower dopamine transmission. I think good dopamine transmission is necessary for creativity.


 Phenelzine slows down the metabolism of neurotransmitters such as epinephrine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine, and thus keeps them longer in the brain. Phenelzine also elevates levels of the neurotransmitter GABA.

In the above post, I was obviously talking about psych meds in general and not specifically about the SSRI's. I don't think it strays to far from the OP, yo! It's interesting to delve into how the different classes of psych meds effect peoples creativity.And I think it adds an interesting take on artists, one in particular and how much of an influence they had on him and his struggles with SAD and co-morbid depression!


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Happily they were not on SSRIs


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## Shredder (Apr 19, 2011)

Personally for me Zoloft got me out of a motivational rut / depression and thats the biggest creativity killer Ive ever experienced.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

mikoy said:


> Happily they were not on SSRIs


Yeah, the pdoc didn't even waste his time with the SSRI's. They went straight to Nardil. I read of two issues he, Wallace, had while on Nardil. Keep in mind that he was using it successfully for many years before he stopped.

Why the change- One reason seems to be a major food interaction that he experienced. Another factor that played a part in his discontinuation of the drug could have been the infamous reformulation of Nardil in 2003 by Pfizer. Which many longtime users claimed a loss in its effectiveness. Though that is clearly debatable. People have responded very well to the new formulation. They apparently changed the inactive ingredients. A generic has to have a plasma level of the active ingredient between 80% and 120% of the originally approved drug.

In any case a strong case can be made for phenelzine's attributes and the SSRi's stifling people's creative flow. The SSRI's are known to flat line many people emotions and feelings and can cause frontal lobe syndrome.

http://www.theannals.com/content/early/2012/02/21/aph.1Q656.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989833/


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## anonymous1520 (Aug 23, 2017)

I know this thread is 5 years old, but since it's on the top of Google for "remeron creativity" I wanted to weigh in with a positive experience. I'm a writer, and four years ago my mental state had deteriorated to the point that I was close to suicide and nearly unable to work. When I finally saw a psychiatrist (per my therapist's repeated advice) and agreed go on remeron, I read just about every negative story about mirtazipane+creativity on the internet. Needless to say, when I took my first pill I had a breakdown, tremendously worried that I had just agreed to creatively castrate myself. 

Yet it was something my psychiatrist said to me when she prescribed the medication that convinced me go through with it: she said that instead of hindering my creativity, the mirtazipine would allow me to spend much more time in my "creative space" because depression and severe anxiety would no longer be holding me back. Additionally, having a medication that would put my racing mind to sleep every night would allow me to build a solid daily routine and thus unlock my maximum creative potential. 

I took her word for it on a huge leap of faith. 

Four years later? 

It's one of the best decisions I ever made.

Just like she said, the boost in creativity hasn't been subtle - it's been staggering. After a bit of initial "brain fog" during the adjustment period, after only three months my anxiety was lowered to the point I could focus full-tilt on a full slate of projects for the first time in years. And the big fear -- that those amazing ideas that hit you when you're least expecting it would just stop happening -- never materialized; in fact, it was the exact opposite. 

I think there's a good bit of inherent negative bias when it comes to medication on the internet (for the same reason you're more likely to post a Yelp review about a bad dining experience than an acceptable one) but if you're a creative person and really struggling mentally, I think it's also important to see anecdotal evidence that with the right guidance, dosage, and a few small lifestyle changes (10 minutes daily AM exercise, Vitamin D, and more veggies) it is absolutely possible to enjoy a vastly anxiety-reduced mental state on medication while actually increasing your creative potential.


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## Hordak (May 5, 2017)

anonymous1520 said:


> I know this thread is 5 years old, but since it's on the top of Google for "remeron creativity" I wanted to weigh in with a positive experience. I'm a writer, and four years ago my mental state had deteriorated to the point that I was close to suicide and nearly unable to work. When I finally saw a psychiatrist (per my therapist's repeated advice) and agreed go on remeron, I read just about every negative story about mirtazipane+creativity on the internet. Needless to say, when I took my first pill I had a breakdown, tremendously worried that I had just agreed to creatively castrate myself.
> 
> Yet it was something my psychiatrist said to me when she prescribed the medication that convinced me go through with it: she said that instead of hindering my creativity, the mirtazipine would allow me to spend much more time in my "creative space" because depression and severe anxiety would no longer be holding me back. Additionally, having a medication that would put my racing mind to sleep every night would allow me to build a solid daily routine and thus unlock my maximum creative potential.
> 
> ...


SSRI ≠ Mirtazapine 

No one suggested that Mirtazapine would squash creativity. On the contrary: Mirtazapine is often used to attenuate SSRI-induced-flatness...


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## jaiho (Feb 14, 2015)

> I think there's a good bit of inherent negative bias when it comes to medication on the internet (for the same reason you're more likely to post a Yelp review about a bad dining experience than an acceptable one)


Totally agree. Most people you find that post online, are still having big problems with their mental health and are fast to blame psychiatry for their problems, and after trying a few medications will swear off them, which is probably the worst thing you can do.
Some people just need meds, even if you're doing every single thing you should be doing to have excellent mental health.


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