# Making attraction known



## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

This is really just a thought and probably not thread-worthy but... people don't get enough credit for asking people out. I mean, it's terrifying to even *think* about it.

Just imagine. You see someone you find attractive. So what happens next?

a) You can approach them (which is terrifying), or
b) You can wallow in self-pity and go home

If you get up the courage to approach - or find yourself talking to them because, for instance, they're serving you in a store, you have to ascertain their receptiveness. What happens next?

a) You can tell they're receptive, or
b) You can't tell they're receptive

If you can tell, you'll probably have more confidence and things might be easier. But how do you tell? Sure, they laughed at a comment you made... but what does that mean? Surely (especially if they're a nice person) they laugh at comments people make all the time. So then what do you do if you can't tell?

a) You bite the bullet, risking your sanity and ego, or
B) You wallow in self-pity and go home

*Why* would any person who valued their sanity choose a) in that situation? You don't know anything about this person, except that you think they're attractive. You can't tell their age, their relationship status, or whether they'd even be attracted to you. You can't tell if they'd feel awkward to have someone they're not attracted to show interest in them, or if they'd laugh in your face.

Honestly, it's no surprise that online dating is so popular. It at least gives you a bio to work from. And a rejection from a picture on a computer is way easier than seeing the expression on their face when you ask them out.

Seriously - if you have ever approached someone and asked them out, I am in awe of you. You are a god. Never forget it.


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## 3stacks (Sep 27, 2014)

I do b) every time haha


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I think approaching people face to face shows confidence and really appreciated.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

wait, and see if after multiple repeated encounters or meetings, see if they reflect anything you feel towards them. read any positive signs if any then think about asking. 

i mean, you might get attracted to some random person you see in a shop, but going up right there and then right at that time, it's kind of an inappropriate thing and it'll probably not end well.


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## The Notorious D.B.L (Aug 2, 2016)

I asked a woman out at the SA meet after meeting her three times. She's too shy though and sorta rejected the idea. Think I would have to meet her a ****load of times over the space of about 3 years to get anywhere. lol

If someone asked me, I'd be well up for it. That ain't never going to happen though. Sigh


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Letting someone know that you are attracted to them is a risk. If the feeling isn't mutual it can make interactions with them afterwards awkward. Then you risk them gossiping about you. Like this one meetup group I went to had a couple guys that asked out tons of women in the group. Word got around quite quickly. Huge turn-off if the guy asking you out has also asked out 5 of your friends. 

Going up to random strangers and asking them out isn't widely accepted. That's why online dating and going to bars is popular. It's okay in those circumstances to hit on a random stranger and you never have to talk to them ever again if you don't want to. Most likely will never see each other ever again. Very little gossip risk since you don't work together, go to school together, not in the same social circle.


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## huzah (Sep 11, 2010)

lol I love this thread because I feel the exact same way. B every time baby.

But I'll do you one better. I can't even bring myself to do anything if a woman approaches *me* - and that's a rare sight to behold to begin with. Men are generally expected to make the first move.

But @komorikun I don't understand where this bar myth comes from. There's this bar I go to nearly every tuesday and a couple of weeks ago a cute girl grabbed my *** while passing behind me and said 'excuse me' - being the giant selfloathing puss I am I said 'no problem' and immediately completely ignored her by looking the other way. She's there nearly every week as well to remind me of what a schmuck I am.

Though now that I think about it I'm guessing you meant hitting a random bar and never returning there. But then the further away from home I go, the harder it is to get a girl home, no? "u wanna come home with me baybeh? Ok cool WE'LL BE THERE IN 3 HOURS" :nerd: there's only so many nearby bars you can go to until you've had them all


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

huzah said:


> But @komorikun I don't understand where this bar myth comes from. There's this bar I go to nearly every tuesday and a couple of weeks ago a cute girl grabbed my *** while passing behind me and said 'excuse me' - being the giant selfloathing puss I am I said 'no problem' and immediately completely ignored her by looking the other way. She's there nearly every week as well to remind me of what a schmuck I am.


That isn't an approach, its sexual harassment. No doubt many guys would find it flattering, but it would likely piss me off.


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## D'avjo (Sep 23, 2018)

yeah, must be too shy, what else could it be


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

I have always done it via email or some online method. met a really cute girl at meetup yesterday, a bit glad that she has messages disabled so I don't have to make a fool out of myself and try to talk to her. I already asked out one of the organizers from there but she already has a partner, was a bit embarrassing. maybe I will see the girl at another meetup... I suppose I could ask for her Facebook or number. or I could just creepily search up her Facebook... and she's too pretty for me and probably in a relationship and also probably a lesbian.


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## CloudChaser (Nov 7, 2013)

Or option C - Flash them. Guaranteed to seperate the wheat from the chaff in one easy motion.


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## huzah (Sep 11, 2010)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> That isn't an approach, its sexual harassment. No doubt many guys would find it flattering, but it would likely piss me off.


Um yeah no, that's not sexual harassment. Not in my book anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of groping while drunk in a bar as long as 'no means no' is understood. It's not uncomfortable until someone crosses that line, but you bet your *** that at that point the offender is getting kicked out by both staff and other patrons lol


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## Hikikomori2014 (Sep 8, 2014)

It's a numbers game. The more people you approach, the easier it comes.
It may never be completely be comfortable, but try approaching 1 person per day.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

huzah said:


> Um yeah no, that's not sexual harassment. Not in my book anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of groping while drunk in a bar as long as 'no means no' is understood. It's not uncomfortable until someone crosses that line, but you bet your *** that at that point the offender is getting kicked out by both staff and other patrons lol


Wtf, being groped is obviously sexual harassment. You think its ok to grope women randomly?


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## Hikikomori2014 (Sep 8, 2014)

Being groped is ONLY sexual harassment if the person doing the groping isn't attractive to the gropee


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

If I approached one person a day I wouldn't have any teeth left. Though, on the plus side, I'd have fewer cavities.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Hikikomori2014 said:


> Being groped is ONLY sexual harassment if the person doing the groping isn't attractive to the gropee


No,

Being groped is sexual harassment if it is _unwanted_ by the gropee. Since you can't tell if someone wants you groping them or not, you can't grope someone without risking sexual harassment, unless obviously in the situation where they are ok with being groped (a consensual sexual encounter).

I refute your claim of attractiveness, I don't give a ****ing **** how attractive I find a woman, I don't want them groping me randomly.


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

I managed to do it once like that in real life. It was a girl who worked in an internet cafe i used to go to all the time. It wasa ling time ago now 2004 i think. I felt we had some chemistry so one day i plucked up the courage to ask her for a drink. See told me she hada bf and that was that


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## EndTimes (Aug 10, 2018)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> Wtf, being groped is obviously sexual harassment. You think its ok to grope women randomly?


A girl once touched my butt at a party and I didn't make a scandal out of it. Actually, I completely ignored she did it. But well, I am a man...


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

EndTimes said:


> A girl once touched my butt at a party and I didn't make a scandal out of it. Actually, I completely ignored she did it. But well, I am a man...


Grats on not being strong enough to defend your personal boundaries. You sound like fearsome man.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

I do find it hilarious tbh, are these posters suggesting its ok for women to grope men, but not ok for men to grope women, or are they just saying they think its ok for everyone to be able to grope anyone they want?

Is everyone here just ****ing dumb?


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## EndTimes (Aug 10, 2018)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> Grats on not being strong enough to defend your personal boundaries. You sound like fearsome man.


XD, that's one way to look at the situation. For me, it wasn't a big deal.


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## Ekardy (Jul 26, 2018)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> *I do find it hilarious tbh, are these posters suggesting its ok for women to grope men, but not ok for men to grope women,* or are they just saying they think its ok for everyone to be able to grope anyone they want?
> 
> Is everyone here just ****ing dumb?


The famous double standard.

Also, I've gone to clubs and bars where men would grab my *** and I would flip around and tell them no. To which I would get an "Oh, my bad, okay." So maybe it's the mentality, groping is allowed until the person says no.


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## 0589471 (Apr 21, 2012)

Weird. I have never considered groping a guy to flirt. Seems awkward AF to approach some strange man that way. I mean unless you are indicating you want bathroom sex what is the point. Respecting personal space goes both ways, nothing wrong with a guy not wanting to be groped. Plus I wouldn't want anyone doing that to me. Talking is nice, helps you get an idea what you are getting into. Anyway when I am dating someone I may get a little handsy lol but different there.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

I think its the old stereotype "men will sleep with anyone" and "they will find it to be a compliment". I prefer to choose who gropes me, tyvm.


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## Karsten (Apr 3, 2007)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> That isn't an approach, its sexual harassment. No doubt many guys would find it flattering, but it would likely piss me off.


For a woman to be that forward, she generally has to be really drunk. It's sexual harassment, sure, but I don't know many people who would get pissed off by it. Maybe in terms of encroaching on their personal space, but not so much as far as sexual harassment goes. Maybe if she grabbed the guy's crotch.

Women aren't all that scary to men. I mean, yes in terms of the shattering their ego/breaking their heart kinda way, but not in a rapey/creepy way. Double standard, I guess, but it's just the way most people view these sorts of things.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Karsten said:


> For a woman to be that forward, she generally has to be really drunk. It's sexual harassment, sure, but I don't know many people who would get pissed off by it. Maybe in terms of encroaching on their personal space, but not so much as far as sexual harassment goes. Maybe if she grabbed the guy's crotch.
> 
> Women aren't all that scary to men. I mean, yes in terms of the shattering their ego/breaking their heart kinda way, but not in a rapey/creepy way. Double standard, I guess, but it's just the way most people view these sorts of things.


Isn't about scary, its not a threat of violence or assault, I just find it uncomfortable and invasive when it isn't invited. Double standards also piss me off obviously. It should be self evidently a wrong behaviour if its wrong for a man to do to a woman. Doesn't really bother me what the majority might think, or that it might make me seem "unmanly".

If a woman wants to approach, just make normal conversation.


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## Karsten (Apr 3, 2007)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> Isn't about scary, its not a threat of violence or assault, I just find it uncomfortable and invasive when it isn't invited. Double standards also piss me off obviously. It should be self evidently a wrong behaviour if its wrong for a man to do to a woman. Doesn't really bother me what the majority might think, or that it might make me seem "unmanly".
> 
> If a woman wants to approach, just make normal conversation.


Lol, I agree with you, bob, but humans have never been rational.


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## Vip3r (Dec 7, 2010)

A Toxic Butterfly said:


> handsy


I think this is my new favorite word. :lol


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## Suchness (Aug 13, 2011)

Back in the day I would have liked if a chick tapped my bum but I don’t know how I would react to it now with my anxiety being so high. I don’t even go to clubs or parties. The only place someone could do that to me now is when I’m walking in the park and I know what I would want to do about it but now I might just smile and keep walking lol. I wouldn’t do that do a random woman tho.


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## xxDark Horse (May 13, 2015)

TheWelshOne said:


> This is really just a thought and probably not thread-worthy but... people don't get enough credit for asking people out. I mean, it's terrifying to even *think* about it.
> 
> Just imagine. You see someone you find attractive. So what happens next?
> 
> ...


If you approach a woman and talk to her, if she's interested, she will generally try to keep the conversation going. She will ask you questions, she may even compliment you. She will look at you in the eyes and generally be engaged in conversation with you. She may play with her hair as well. This is generally a sign that at least she's not uncomfortable with you.

And if you feel that you two vibe with one another, then you can ask for her number.

If a woman doesn't want to be bothered, there are several ways you can tell. The first is her eyes are darting around the room as you're talking to her, this means she's uncomfortable and is looking for a way to escape. Another is ignoring you, giving you the cold shoulder. Another is a fake laugh. And finally, she will give excuses to why she can't talk. Like "i'm really busy right now" or "I have to work on this paper i'm sorry"


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> No,
> 
> Being groped is sexual harassment if it is _unwanted_ by the gropee. Since you can't tell if someone wants you groping them or not, you can't grope someone without risking sexual harassment, unless obviously in the situation where they are ok with being groped (a consensual sexual encounter).
> 
> I refute your claim of attractiveness, I don't give a ****ing **** how attractive I find a woman, I don't want them groping me randomly.


This but replace woman with anyone.



BeardedMessiahBob said:


> I do find it hilarious tbh, are these posters suggesting its ok for women to grope men, but not ok for men to grope women, or are they just saying they think its ok for everyone to be able to grope anyone they want?
> 
> Is everyone here just ****ing dumb?


The eternal SAS reaction gif:










part of me wonders if it's a cultural difference.

I guess the advantage to going to rock/metal clubs is that you're more likely to get elbowed in the neck/knocked to the floor than groped which... I guess thinking about it I did prefer, since I did also get groped once in a club - not a rock/metal club for reference (just once, pretty surprising really it didn't happen more based on comments here, but I was never there to hookup and I do a pretty good job of dissuading attention)


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## Vulnicura (Apr 13, 2013)

Ive asked more than a 100 women out recently and gotten more than a dozen numbers plus significant personal growth. Do it. 

The thing is about being you, doing what is good for you, and getting away with it. What that can come to mean specifically is up for your own interpretation. A lot of you really live in a fantasy land. With the right mindset, getting rejected by 100 women and not being phased by it, yet still learn and grow, is one of the best things that you can do for yourself.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I've been to bars and nightclubs hundreds of times and I think only once someone touched my butt. It doesn't happen very much.


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## LonelyLurker (Sep 24, 2016)

TheWelshOne said:


> This is really just a thought and probably not thread-worthy but... people don't get enough credit for asking people out. I mean, it's terrifying to even *think* about it.
> 
> Just imagine. You see someone you find attractive. So what happens next?
> 
> ...


I get what you mean and it can be brave, I sometimes wonder how brave I'd be if looks alone were enough to get me interested (I know I'd have been a coward in my low self-esteem days but I'm not sure about now as it's never been tested).

However, the real answer is that most of those choices are false dichotomies. I would assume that for most people it's not as terrifying as you imagine and doesn't pose any serious risk to their ego or sanity. But that doesn't change your overall point, IF you find it terrifying yet do it anyway, you are brave and that should be recognised.


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## huzah (Sep 11, 2010)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> I do find it hilarious tbh, are these posters suggesting its ok for women to grope men, but not ok for men to grope women, or are they just saying they think its ok for everyone to be able to grope anyone they want?
> 
> Is everyone here just ****ing dumb?


Yes we are all dumb because some of us disagree with you. Also I looked back and no one said it's okay for a woman to do it to a man but not vice versa, idk where you got that. imo both are fine as long as everyone understand no means no. Just a quick pat on the butt, say hi & start talking. If that's sexual harassment then go ahead and call the popo because they'll just laugh.



Ekardy said:


> The famous double standard.
> 
> Also, I've gone to clubs and bars where men would grab my *** and I would flip around and tell them no. To which I would get an "Oh, my bad, okay." So maybe it's the mentality, groping is allowed until the person says no.


If you're going out to such places this is the accepted mentality, yes. Had that person not backed off when you said no we would've entered harassment territory and there's not a doubt in my mind other people would have come to your aid. I understand this is a sensitive issue, but people go to clubs and bars with hopes of getting lucky so touchy feely stuff happens more often than not.



BeardedMessiahBob said:


> Isn't about scary, its not a threat of violence or assault, I just find it uncomfortable and invasive when it isn't invited. Double standards also piss me off obviously. It should be self evidently a wrong behaviour if its wrong for a man to do to a woman. Doesn't really bother me what the majority might think, or that it might make me seem "unmanly".
> 
> If a woman wants to approach, just make normal conversation.


Normal conversation is what follows after. Touching someone beforehand is an excellent way to indicate your intentions without verbally maing it explicit, which would be weird.

I do realise most people on this forum are from the USA though, I'm from The Netherlands so it may just be a cultural thing. Touching someone's butt to start a conversation is considered mild, really.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

huzah said:


> Also I looked back and no one said it's okay for a woman to do it to a man but not vice versa, idk where you got that.


 It's implicit that you can't go up to a woman and slap her on the arse without it carrying a very high risk of it being unwanted and therefore sexual harassment. Next to you go into work or college, slap your female boss / lecturer on the arse and see what happens.



huzah said:


> imo both are fine as long as everyone understand no means no. Just a quick pat on the butt, say hi & start talking. If that's sexual harassment then go ahead and call the popo because they'll just laugh.


No, in a work place or a university, I don't think they will. Besides you aren't giving anyone the opportunity to say no to your groping, you are just groping. "oh, you didn't want that, well you should have said".



huzah said:


> If you're going out to such places this is the accepted mentality, yes. Had that person not backed off when you said no we would've entered harassment territory and there's not a doubt in my mind other people would have come to your aid. I understand this is a sensitive issue, but people go to clubs and bars with hopes of getting lucky so touchy feely stuff happens more often than not.


Pretty sure women can get away with this where men cant. Why don't you do any experiment for me and test various places, bars, clubs, schools and report back your findings.

"its fine, I wouldn't continue if they said no".



huzah said:


> Normal conversation is what follows after. Touching someone beforehand is an excellent way to indicate your intentions without verbally maing it explicit, which would be weird.


In your bizarre universe where fondling comes before talking about the idea of whether fondling would be appropriate, maybe.



huzah said:


> I do realise most people on this forum are from the USA though, I'm from The Netherlands so it may just be a cultural thing. Touching someone's butt to start a conversation is considered mild, really.


Huzah: Hi dad (touches dads butt)
Huzah Dad: Hi Son, how have you been

wot?


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## huzah (Sep 11, 2010)

@BeardedMessiahBob Why are you talking about work/school all of a sudden? We're talking about bars/clubs where people get drunk off their *** and hope to hook up. OBVIOUSLY touching someone like that outside of those settings is hugely inappropriate.

Leave my dad out of this, he's a nice guy. No but seriously that was a rather pathetic attempt at refuting my arguments.


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## Ekardy (Jul 26, 2018)

huzah said:


> If you're going out to such places this is the accepted mentality, yes. Had that person not backed off when you said no we would've entered harassment territory and there's not a doubt in my mind other people would have come to your aid. I understand this is a sensitive issue, but people go to clubs and bars with hopes of getting lucky so touchy feely stuff happens more often than not.


So I have to be touched inappropriately first to then be allowed to say no when I go to a place like that....according to people like you. I didn't realize a woman going to a club or bar was an indication that she was looking for some action.
Good to know neanderthals will never truly be extinct.


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## huzah (Sep 11, 2010)

Ekardy said:


> So I have to be touched inappropriately first to then be allowed to say no when I go to a place like that....according to people like you. I didn't realize a woman going to a club or bar was an indication that she was looking for some action.
> Good to know neanderthals will never truly be extinct.


First of all, I don't mean to offend anyone. What I'm saying is not 'according to people like me' - it is what I observe when I go out with friends myself. It is what happens at these places whether you, I or anyone likes it or not. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's a fact.

Hell, you've already stated the same fact yourself:



Ekardy said:


> Also, I've gone to clubs and bars where men would grab my *** and I would flip around and tell them no. To which I would get an "Oh, my bad, okay." So maybe it's the mentality, groping is allowed until the person says no.


What I'm trying to get at with both you and bob is; if you don't like it, don't go. Sound harsh? Maybe it is. But look at it this way; these are places single people go to in hopes of hooking up or finding a new partner. THERE WILL BE TOUCHING. You don't enjoy it, so don't go! Leave those people who do want that alone, let them do their thing, let them have their places to do what they want to do.

For the record, I hate clubs. I went with friends about 4 weeks ago and it was fckn horrible. A girl started randomly grinding my crotch without even having seen my face! I was standing in line for drinks, she asked her friend 'is the guy behind me okay'? She replied 'yeah he's okay' so she just started fricking moving her *** onto me. She was pretty but I didn't like it, that's too much touchy from a stranger for me. So you know what? I didn't go again. I didn't say to her "HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT" - because she *does* like going to clubs and she *does* enjoy touching strangers and being touched by them. This is their playground, leave them be.

It's a bit like showing up to a kids party, exclaiming "YO THIS **** IS DUMB" and then kicking the birthday boy's cake in half. The party isn't held for you, I doesn't matter you think it's dumb... just don't go.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

huzah said:


> @BeardedMessiahBob Why are you talking about work/school all of a sudden? We're talking about bars/clubs where people get drunk off their *** and hope to hook up. OBVIOUSLY touching someone like that outside of those settings is hugely inappropriate.
> 
> Leave my dad out of this, he's a nice guy. No but seriously that was a rather pathetic attempt at refuting my arguments.


You stated



> I'm from The Netherlands so it may just be a cultural thing. Touching someone's butt to start a conversation is considered mild, really.


So for example, were I to wander up to your dad, who happened to be in a bar, and fondled his butt, you (or he) wouldn't consider that to be sexual harassment? If I _must_ leave your dad out of it (why him being a nice guy exempts him from being arse fondled in your universe where arse fondling is just a greeting I don't know), are you ok with a random man wandering up to _you_ in a bar and groping your butt? Why is the butt special btw? What if he groped your genitals, is that ok?

I am pretty sure there isn't implied consent to be groped whenever you enter a bar or club either. If you are making that claim, then provide some evidence for it.

You haven't really made any arguments, just statements.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

It's ****ing bizarre tbh I am having to go to these lengths to argue what should be obvious, that sexually groping people when they don't want it is sexual harassment :lol. I mean, come on guys, really?


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## Ekardy (Jul 26, 2018)

huzah said:


> First of all, I don't mean to offend anyone. What I'm saying is not 'according to people like me' - it is what I observe when I go out with friends myself. It is what happens at these places whether you, I or anyone likes it or not. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's a fact.
> 
> Hell, you've already stated the same fact yourself:
> 
> ...


Well let's leave it up to you've had your own experiences and I've had mine. Only time I've gone to places like that were with my then boyfriend because we enjoyed dancing and live music. Last time I checked those places weren't just for single people.
And for the record, the guys that did touch me, were quickly removed from the premise by the owners since they had zero tolerance for it.

You have your opinions, I have mine. Let's leave it at that.


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## huzah (Sep 11, 2010)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> You stated
> 
> ------
> _I'm from The Netherlands so it may just be a cultural thing. Touching someone's butt to start a conversation is considered mild, really._
> ...


You just changed the scenario. You intially chose to ignore the context & pretend I was greeting my dad by touching his butt. The above scenario would indeed be fine in a bar. If a gay man walked behind me in a bar, touched my butt and said 'hi' I would smile at him, tell him 'sorry, I'm not gay' and go back to what I was doing. No joke, this is normal where I'm from. It's even preferrable because by touching the butt he makes his intentions clear without having to go "HELLO THERE I AM GAY AND INTERESTED" which, again, would be weird. Groping genitals would be a no-no, that is not considered normal.



BeardedMessiahBob said:


> I am pretty sure there isn't implied consent to be groped whenever you enter a bar or club either. If you are making that claim, then provide some evidence for it.
> 
> You haven't really made any arguments, just statements.


I guess you're right that they weren't really arguments, which makes sense as I was merely trying to explain the way things work here. But you were definitely ignoring the context of what I was saying to make it sound ridiculous. No there is no implied consent, but it's just SO common that it's accepted. Don't like it, don't go. If you do go, and make a scene, you will be seen as the weird one and never invited along again. Again, not saying that's right or wrong, but it is the way it is here.



BeardedMessiahBob said:


> It's ****ing bizarre tbh I am having to go to these lengths to argue what should be obvious, that sexually groping people when they don't want it is sexual harassment :lol. I mean, come on guys, really?


I'm as surprised about this argument as you are, but on the other side. I knew Americans were prudes but jeez you really surprised me on this one. Touching someone's butt in a bar is "sexually groping people" ? Damn son, imma call you Buzz Killington from now on.



Ekardy said:


> Well let's leave it up to you've had your own experiences and I've had mine. Only time I've gone to places like that were with my then boyfriend because we enjoyed dancing and live music. Last time I checked those places weren't just for single people.
> And for the record, the guys that did touch me, were quickly removed from the premise by the owners since they had zero tolerance for it.
> 
> You have your opinions, I have mine. Let's leave it at that.


If they were removed from the premise then I can safely assume this is a cultural thing, that would not happen here unless the person being touched made a huuuuge scene. Not to say that doesn't happen, but I've never seen it happen before in my life. And I guarantee you the person making a scene would be seen as the crazy one after people found it it was just a tap on the butt.

Oh and I can't stress enough I really am talking just about a tap/grab on the butt. If you run around Holland grabbing people by the genitals you won't be making many friends. That said, in a club it's not uncommon for a guy to chat a girl up, and if he doesn't get shoo'd away he may just go in straight for a kiss. I think that's a bit much, just like the girl randomly grinding my nono-area, but this is what these people like to do in clubs and I say let them have their fun. Plenty of more relaxed places to go & have a drink with friends, no need to ruin the fun for the gropey-feely people.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

@huzah I am not American.

Need some other people from the Netherlands to confirm that everyone fondles each others arses as greetings over there. Whatever though, I would suggest if you venture out of the Netherlands you shake people by the hand rather than the arsecheek.


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## stratsp (Jul 30, 2018)

BeardedMessiahBob said:


> @*huzah* I am not American.
> 
> Need some other people from the Netherlands to confirm that everyone fondles each others arses as greetings over there. Whatever though, I would suggest if you venture out of the Netherlands you shake people by the hand rather than the arsecheek.


Well I have not been in clubs/pubs in Netherlands/Belgium, so not sure what goes on inside...but I can guarentee no one will excuse you for taping someone arse in a library just to greet you. But I can imagine based on the kind of open minded culture people here have, it seems plausible that they would lower inhibitions in pubs/clubs after a few drinks


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Well... this thread devolved quickly.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

TheWelshOne said:


> Well... this thread devolved quickly.


I have a gift


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## stratsp (Jul 30, 2018)

TheWelshOne said:


> Well... this thread devolved quickly.


 Did I say something wrong?


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

stratsp said:


> Did I say something wrong?


No! Not you. :squeeze Just that I made this thread about how impressed I was at people having the courage to ask other people out when it's very hard for me to even contemplate showing my attraction to someone. And now it's about getting groped in clubs.

Just reminds me why I left this forum in the first place.


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## stratsp (Jul 30, 2018)

TheWelshOne said:


> No! Not you. :squeeze Just that I made this thread about how impressed I was at people having the courage to ask other people out when it's very hard for me to even contemplate showing my attraction to someone. And now it's about getting groped in clubs.
> 
> Just reminds me why I left this forum in the first place.


Thanks I sometimes have difficulty understanding social cues and basic language, that's why I prefer to ask than to keep imagining as to what I said wrong...
As for me, forget about asking someone out, just talking to some stranger in itself is an impressive feat in itself...I for sure would wet myself if I hve to do that


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

stratsp said:


> Thanks I sometimes have difficulty understanding social cues and basic language, that's why I prefer to ask than to keep imagining as to what I said wrong...
> As for me, forget about asking someone out, just talking to some stranger in itself is an impressive feat in itself...I for sure would wet myself if I hve to do that


I know the feeling.


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## EndTimes (Aug 10, 2018)

Karsten said:


> For a woman to be that forward, she generally has to be really drunk. It's sexual harassment, sure, but I don't know many people who would get pissed off by it. Maybe in terms of encroaching on their personal space, but not so much as far as sexual harassment goes. Maybe if she grabbed the guy's crotch.
> 
> Women aren't all that scary to men. I mean, yes in terms of the shattering their ego/breaking their heart kinda way, but not in a rapey/creepy way. Double standard, I guess, but it's just the way most people view these sorts of things.


I second that. I would definitely be annoyed/angry if a girl tried to grab my crotch. But not the ***.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

*No Touching: The Countries That Dislike Physical Contact the Most*

A study suggests you should hug a Finn, but not a Brit.










https://www.theatlantic.com/interna.../europeans-comfort-touch-social-bonds/412861/


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## ThatGuy11200 (Sep 3, 2012)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/25/paris-man-jailed-for-slapping-womans-bottom



> The man, inebriated when he boarded the rush-hour bus, smacked the 21-year-old on the buttocks and made an insulting comment about her breasts, before a squabble with the bus driver, who jammed the doors shut while police were alerted. A judge in Evry, south of Paris, sentenced the man, in his 30s, to three months in prison for the slap, considered an act of outright sexual aggression, and added a fine of €300 (£270) for the offending comments.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I have before just a few times, sometimes they ignore or dismiss my interest. On that note people who are worried about rejection should know that unless you actually ask someone out that's seemingly unlikely to happen, rejection. Sometimes they'll even deny that you could be attracted to them. All kinds of things happen that are underwhelming. In fact making your attraction known ime is pointless. Especially online of course. If you're lucky they'll take it as a compliment (that's far from guaranteed.)

But yeah asking someone you don't really know out somewhere in real life is where rejection comes in and would take more strength.


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## tea111red (Nov 8, 2005)

i don't want to insult the person.


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

On the actual thread topic, I think the earlier you start asking people out the better because you develop skills of approach and a bit of thick skin for rejection too. I’ve never asked anyone out and the less you do regarding dating the harder it gets a you’re older because you’re not confident in doing so, and everyone knows lack of confidence in the dating game is killer


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

b) You can wallow in self-pity and go home


Always. 



No wonder why you can get to the age of 48 and never kissed or had sex.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Hikikomori2014 said:


> Being groped is ONLY sexual harassment if the person doing the groping isn't attractive to the gropee


If it's a choice between being

A) groped by an attractive woman, or

B) only receiving complements from older women 2wice my age (WHICH IS WHAT I USUALLY EXPERIENCE..."he's such a nice young man..."he's such a decent young man"

...I would choose option A any day.

Having older constantly telling you that they wish they met you when they were your age....isn't a complement :roll


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## The Notorious D.B.L (Aug 2, 2016)

This guy knows how to make attraction known.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...womens-bottoms-Brighton-walks-free-court.html


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

VIncymon said:


> If it's a choice between being
> 
> A) groped by an attractive woman, or
> 
> ...


Yay, another gropey thread.

The problem with the "I am cool with being groped by attractive women" thing, is that you open the door to:

1. Being groped by conventionally attractive women who you don't find attractive
2. Being groped by attractive women when you are out with your partner
3. Being groped by unattractive women
4. Being groped by old women
5. Being groped by old unattractive women
6. Being groped by attractive men
7. Being groped by unattractive men
8. Being groped by unattractive old men

Since the gropee can't be sure which category _they_ are in (well other than age or sex), can't tell if _you want_ to be groped, and you don't _universally want to be groped_ since you probably aren't down with being groped by old men, then there are only a small number of cases in which _you would want to be groped_, its far better all around if we just write off the whole groping thing as sexual harassment, which it actually is. Obviously.

Instead of this horse**** about sexual harassment being "complimentary" how about people use their ****ing mouths to deliver compliments.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

VIncymon said:


> If it's a choice between being
> 
> A) groped by an attractive woman, or
> 
> ...


It actually is and older women often say stuff younger women feel too unsafe to say tbh but OK lol. I mean if it's a family member or someone close to you then disregard but if not.



Pete Beale said:


> This guy knows how to make attraction known.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...womens-bottoms-Brighton-walks-free-court.html


This is actually perfect because it's one of those news stories where certain groups of people will complain no matter what - on the one hand if he went to prison it would be 'political correctness gone mad' on the other hand because he didn't go because he was Romanian and spoke little English this is a classic case of 'foreigners raping/harassing everyone' nod to the fact it's Brighton, lots for them to work with there. Now if I were to scroll down and observe the comment sec- 'Serves brighton right the city of the snowflakes.....' and there we go.

Anyway I don't know if people should go to prison for just slapping someone, it would be nice if people could just not... Without having to involve the law. Is it a lot to ask? You don't just go around slapping strangers on the ***? I dunno. Apparently so.

-----






_The ghetto boys are catcalling me
As I pull my keys from my pocket
I wonder if this method of courtship
Has ever been effective
Has any girl in history said
Sure, you seem so nice, let's get it on
Still, I always shock them when I answer
Hi my name's Amanda_


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## Karsten (Apr 3, 2007)

How does every thread on SAS turn into a debate about groping :lol


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Persephone The Dread said:


> VIncymon said:
> 
> 
> > If it's a choice between being
> ...


Take it from a guy who is acustomed to being complemented by older women, while ignored by women his own age....it does not feel like a complement.

Let me put it this way. If you are a hetero woman, and the only people who compliment you are other women, ....how does that work to boost your confidence in attracting men ?

So its the same for me. If the only women who openly describe me as a "catch" are women a generation older than I am .....how is that supposed to boost my confidence ?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

VIncymon said:


> Take it from a guy who is acustomed to being complemented by older women, while ignored by women his own age....it does not feel like a complement.
> 
> Let me put it this way. If you are a hetero woman, and the only people who compliment you are other women, ....how does that work to boost your confidence in attracting men ?
> 
> So its the same for me. If the only women who openly describe me as a "catch" are women a generation older than I am .....how is that supposed to boost my confidence ?


Oh I'm definitely not a hetero woman and I have little interest in attracting most men so this isn't something I can relate to as such. I genuinely would feel more complimented if a woman expressed attraction to me whether or not I was attracted to her in fact, because I think it would say a lot more about who I am as a person. That's just me though. (Edit: Actually I can't tell if you're talking about platonic expressions or not because that's different too obviously.)

I can understand the frustration of not having people you're attracted to express attraction to you, but my point was more that it still shows you are attractive and maybe younger women are too shy to express that sometimes as well.


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