# Do sas girls wait too? Should I bother anymore?



## telefy (Oct 10, 2009)

*Do SA girls wait too? Should I bother anymore?*

I'm recently beginning to question my dream of finding a girl that's like me. So far I've been putting off relationship stuff because... well ever since I graduated from high school a virgin I felt like I pretty much failed that game, and moved on to just keeping an eye out for a girl I can relate to about the same issues that bring me to these forums. I don't mind so much that I'm sexually inexperienced, because ideally, so is this girl I'm looking for.

But I browsed through the "How old were you when you lost your virginity" thread and it seems that there aren't so many girls who wait. And the more I think about it; the more I feel that due to the gender role differences in our culture she'll probably have had TONS of sex by now --probably even made spicy home video tapes she's taped labels onto like "Zomg, Frat House: Volume II - The second floor," "Tight Cram: We're goona need some more lube," and "Lucky number 1001: (and 1002 and 1003)."

idk... anyway, I'm goona lose my hair in the next 5-10 years I think, and I'm skeptical that she'll be a virgin when I find her (or that she even exists at all). I really don't want to exclude my self from intercourse on principle until I meet a decent girl and have it turn out that she's had tons of fun with this stuff over the years. So now I'm thinking why not call up a bunch of these *****s from Free Adult Friend Finder and try to enjoy what's left of my body's youth while trying to avoid catching VD? Is there any practical reason to forgo meaningless sex, or even sex with GFs who you keep in the dark about your society issues for that matter (I think I'd feel better about losing my virginity that way first, but then totally call up the *****s)?


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## gopherinferno (Apr 7, 2009)

Uhhhhh..........

Use condoms.


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## DitzyDreamer (Jun 10, 2008)

telefy said:


> I'm recently beginning to question my dream of finding a girl that's like me. So far I've been putting off relationship stuff because... well ever since I graduated from high school a virgin I felt like I pretty much failed that game, and moved on to just keeping an eye out for a girl I can relate to about the same issues that bring me to these forums. I don't mind so much that I'm sexually inexperienced, because ideally, so is this girl I'm looking for.
> 
> But I browsed through the "How old were you when you lost your virginity" thread and it seems that there aren't so many girls who wait. And the more I think about it; the more I feel that due to the gender role differences in our culture she'll probably have had TONS of sex by now --probably even made spicy home video tapes she's taped labels onto like "Zomg, Frat House: Volume II - The second floor," "Tight Cram: We're goona need some more lube," and "Lucky number 1001: (and 1002 and 1003)."
> 
> idk... anyway, I'm goona lose my hair in the next 5-10 years I think, and I'm skeptical that she'll be a virgin when I find her (or that she even exists at all). I really don't want to exclude my self from intercourse on principle until I meet a decent girl and have it turn out that she's had tons of fun with this stuff over the years. So now I'm thinking why not call up a bunch of these *****s from Free Adult Friend Finder and try to enjoy what's left of my body's youth while trying to avoid catching VD? Is there any practical reason to forgo meaningless sex, or even sex with GFs who you keep in the dark about your society issues for that matter (I think I'd feel better about losing my virginity that way first, but then totally call up the *****s)?


Lol @ adultfriendfinder. I just joined that site today after someone told me about it.

If you read throughout the entire thread, you would realize that there are some female virgins out there still (*cough* *cough* me!). But I must agree with you that most women, by the time they've hit your age group, have had _multiple_ partners. Just a couple days ago, I find out that my friend, who is a year younger than me, has had sex with two men at _seventeen_.

I think you have to just face the facts that you're special someone may have some sexual experience, and that is ok! Think of it this way: She can teach you stuff that she has learned, and she can make things less awkward for you.

But if you so feel the need to call a *****, go for it! Sex has been downgraded into some meaningless recreation anyway. Quit worrying about what all these women are doing, and go out and have your own fun!


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## telefy (Oct 10, 2009)

somethinginthewind said:


> I hope you realize that just because someone is not a virgin does not = they're sleeping around & making sex videos. :|


Well, the "videos" idea was one of my more extreme speculations. On the other end of the spectrum would be SA girls who tend to involve themselves in relationships with guys primarily for the physical stuff regardless of their personalities (and not that that's a bad thing or anything, I'm just curious where everyone is at on the subject).


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

No, there are still plenty of girls that are still virgins, especially if they have SA. Like myself. But I think it's wrong to only look for girls that are still 'virgins'. I would like to be with a guy that it was his first time too, but just looking for that trait is pointless. Look for someone that you click with and really care about, whether she's had sex before shouldn't matter. 

But anyway, there are still girls that are virgins. And some people find it pointless to post in the 'when did you lose..' thread because.. simple, we didn't lose it yet.


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## debby (Jun 15, 2009)

> Right.
> 
> And just because someone is not a virgin does not mean they're happy with what they've done or that they continue to seek sex in new relationships. Example: _me_.
> 
> If you have such an unforgiving attitude toward women who have had sex, how do you expect any woman, virgin or no, to accept that _you _are a virgin? It's these rigid judgments and over-generalizations about value and worth that give SAers so much pain and difficulty in the first place.


Well said. I couldn't agree more.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

telefy said:


> idk... anyway, I'm goona lose my hair in the next 5-10 years I think, and I'm skeptical that she'll be a virgin when I find her (or that she even exists at all). I really don't want to exclude my self from intercourse on principle until I meet a decent girl and have it turn out that she's had tons of fun with this stuff over the years. So now I'm thinking why not call up a bunch of these *****s from Free Adult Friend Finder and try to enjoy what's left of my body's youth while trying to avoid catching VD? Is there any practical reason to forgo meaningless sex, or even sex with GFs who you keep in the dark about your society issues for that matter (I think I'd feel better about losing my virginity that way first, but then totally call up the *****s)?


I don't really care how much sex a woman has had myself, but I have been thinking of something like this for awhile. I figure that if, by the time I'm 30 (or perhaps next year) I haven't had a relationship or lost my virginity, that I'd pop over to Nevada, where brothels are legal and regulated (and safe) and just get it over with to experience it once. At that point, after I experience something like real tenderness, I'd decide if I want to keep on trying or if I should just move on with my life (and give up hope for a relationship).

You might say that paying for sex is disgusting and creepy, and I'd agree with you. But when I think about it, it's only sex between consenting adults. I feel like I've been indoctrinated into the idea that "respecting women" means that I can't be sexual with them. Male sexuality has been taking a pounding over the past 20 years, so much so that many of us guys that want to treat a woman with respect and want a woman to like us for who we are (the so-called "nice guys") feel that any move towards expressing sexual desire for that woman is tantamount to rape. I've been trying to be a bit more free in my expression of my own sexuality (yes, I have a penis), but it's hard. I find myself apologizing profusely for comments even remotely sexual when in the presence of women despite that they paid that comment no mind. I think that sex might be therapeutic for a guy like me (I don't know about you), so that I can realize that there is nothing wrong with being a man.

It seems like quite a few of the replies to your post are intent on telling you why you're wrong. I just wanted to tell you that I'm right there with you and that I'm pulling for you, man. Sometimes, I feel that if I were to be in a relationship with a woman that has had multiple partners, I'd get a bit jealous of her, that if she has more life experience than I do, I'd feel insecure about it. Perhaps getting it over with might help even out the playing field, so to speak.


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## Iced Soul (Jan 28, 2009)

Homersxchild said:


> No, there are still plenty of girls that are still virgins, especially if they have SA. Like myself. But I think it's wrong to only look for girls that are still 'virgins'. I would like to be with a guy that it was his first time too, but just looking for that trait is pointless. Look for someone that you click with and really care about, whether she's had sex before shouldn't matter.
> 
> But anyway, there are still girls that are virgins. And some people find it pointless to post in the 'when did you lose..' thread because.. simple, we didn't lose it yet.


Could have been written by me. I definitely agree.

I'd love to find a guy who is a virgin, but I figure it's much more important to find a guy I have things in common with, treats me well, and I get along with. Basing your search on if they are a virgin is, well, I can't think of the word for it. If you just protect yourself, you'll be fine. 

Also, I posted in that 'when did you lose...' thread, but I joked and said I'd probably lose it when I'm 30 or 40. Probably because it'll be true. :b


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

Two points: 
1: I'm a virgin still and a girl and 23, but I'm waiting til I get married and I don't care if the other person is one as long as they're willing to wait for me.
2: If you go to a brothel, they won't be virgins either so it kinda defeats the purpose, you'll either have meaningful sex with someone who you love or meaningless sex with someone you don't if you find a girl that isn't a virgin.


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

I think America's down fall reflects and manifests in itself, a gutter filled mentality in many generations. Whether you have SA, or any other condition, you should not look at virginity with polluted media pressures.

Being a virgin means a lot and it reflects yourself as a person as well. 

It saddens me, that the American culture revolves constantly around sex and virginity. Let me ask you this. Are you okay if your husband/wife had multiple partners prior to tying the knot? Probably not, saying other wise would eventually lead to the ever growing divorce rate.

If you masturbate, find a prostitute, or lose it just to lose it, you'll find very little satisfaction after wards. 

Don't worry about it. Change your way of thinking.


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

illlaymedown said:


> Two points:
> 1: I'm a virgin still and a girl and 23, but I'm waiting til I get married and I don't care if the other person is one as long as they're willing to wait for me.
> 2: If you go to a brothel, they won't be virgins either so it kinda defeats the purpose, you'll either have meaningful sex with someone who you love or meaningless sex with someone you don't if you find a girl that isn't a virgin.


u into games?


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## sansd (Mar 22, 2006)

I'm a virgin by choice at 24. I wouldn't want sex with someone only to break up with them later and I wouldn't be comfortable with someone who'd had sex with other people (but I'm not very comfortable with sex at all to begin with).


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

*?*



Positive said:


> u into games?


Huh? Like what kind of games? 
I agree with the last couple of posts. If you want me to get very deep about it then I will(even if you don't I'm still doing it ) I think sex is way bigger than the world has made it to be. The world has taken something that was made to be beautiful and degraded it just like it does with EVERYTHING else. We're bombarded with so many things we grow accustomed to settling, but when you have sex with someone you're sharing your being with another, I wouldn't want to give that most special gift to just any person and most certainly not a prostitute. Wait til you find the right person and be able to fully give yourself to them alone. You'll feel much better with yourself and it'll make them feel great as well. I mean, what's the point in having meaningless sex or any sex with people who are probably just gonna walk out of your life anyway. I also believe that it's much harder on a person if a relationship is ended in which they had sex. It's just something I'd rather you not have to deal with, that's why I'm saying this


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

i don't see what the big deal is, why do i have to lose my virginity at the age of 15 or there-abouts to be cool or whatever? that's silly! if you think your a failure or something, well your not! in fact you might even be cooler because (depending on the person) it shows that your not throwing yourself at everyone and that you can wait for the right one =]


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

illlaymedown said:


> Huh? Like what kind of games?
> I agree with the last couple of posts. If you want me to get very deep about it then I will(even if you don't I'm still doing it ) I think sex is way bigger than the world has made it to be. The world has taken something that was made to be beautiful and degraded it just like it does with EVERYTHING else. We're bombarded with so many things we grow accustomed to settling, but when you have sex with someone you're sharing your being with another, I wouldn't want to give that most special gift to just any person and most certainly not a prostitute. Wait til you find the right person and be able to fully give yourself to them alone. You'll feel much better with yourself and it'll make them feel great as well. I mean, what's the point in having meaningless sex or any sex with people who are probably just gonna walk out of your life anyway. I also believe that it's much harder on a person if a relationship is ended in which they had sex. It's just something I'd rather you not have to deal with, that's why I'm saying this


That's a final fantasy character. I'm glad people still value sex and virginity. Sadly, America has destroyed it like you said, in fact this generation has gotten bad..


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## hiimnotcool (Apr 28, 2009)

From what I can tell both sexes like a person that has had low counts of sexual partners. 

Every girl that has asked me how many people I've slept with always seem very surprised by my answer but it's in a good way. I think people in general respect someone who respects themselves enough to wait and only do it with someone they feel is special.


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

Positive said:


> That's a final fantasy character. I'm glad people still value sex and virginity. Sadly, America has destroyed it like you said, in fact this generation has gotten bad..


Yeah! It's Squall Leonhart from FFVIII, which is my favorite game of ALL TIME!!! XD
Well, I am a Christian as well so the majority of actions people take and behavior contrary to what I believe in, that we should act out of love to one another, makes me sad. It sadens me how selfish humanity can be. It's all about how I feel and forget what we're doing to others as long as we feel good about it. Very depressing. Whether you have a faith or not, you can't deny the way the world has become is not a place many people want to be. I think deep about things too so sorry for the length and depth of my posts


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## Syrena (Aug 6, 2009)

hiimnotcool said:


> From what I can tell both sexes like a person that has had low counts of sexual partners.


I don't really care how many people my partner has slept with. Though, to be honest, the only thing that is a little more attractive is if he has had a few partners, so he knows his way around, so to speak.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

I'd like to point out that the world has attached a stigma to having sex as well. Broad statements like "the world has recently degraded sex" sound kind of strange to me since people have been having meaningless sex for years and it has made them happy. You can bet Plato participated in the local Greek orgies and still spoke of love. Having sex before love does not degrade sex or love because sex is merely an act and doesn't have to be attached to love. We are human beings, and sex is part of what we are, so we shouldn't be ashamed of it.

P.S. FF7 was better.


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> I'd like to point out that the world has attached a stigma to having sex as well. Broad statements like "the world has recently degraded sex" sound kind of strange to me since people have been having meaningless sex for years and it has made them happy. You can bet Plato participated in the local Greek orgies and still spoke of love. Having sex before love does not degrade sex or love because sex is merely an act and doesn't have to be attached to love. We are human beings, and sex is part of what we are, so we shouldn't be ashamed of it.
> 
> P.S. FF7 was better.


I didn't say recently for one thing. I believe humanity has done a lot of ignorant things throughout history. Never said we should be ashamed of sex either, I believe it's a great thing. Just because you say sex isn't related to love doesn't make it so and just because something makes you happy doesn't mean it's right. My dad is happy as an alcoholic, but he makes everybody miserable around him. Let's just take love out of everything and make it all just "meaningless"...I don't think humanity is lacking in it's view of sex, but it's view of love. If you are "happy" thinking of sex as "merely an act" then more power to you. Go buy all the prostitutes you want and have all the meaningless sex you want. I hope it pleases you by the end of your life. Even the word meaningless says enough in itself.
PS: FFVIII pwns FFVII!!!!!!(although I was answering a question once again when talking about FFVIII and it's so nice how you feel the need to attack my opinion to makes yours more adequate)


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Less comparison :lol


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> I'd like to point out that the world has attached a stigma to having sex as well. Broad statements like "the world has recently degraded sex" sound kind of strange to me since people have been having meaningless sex for years and it has made them happy. You can bet Plato participated in the local Greek orgies and still spoke of love. Having sex before love does not degrade sex or love because sex is merely an act and doesn't have to be attached to love. We are human beings, and sex is part of what we are, so we shouldn't be ashamed of it.
> 
> P.S. FF7 was better.


Your opening a whole new can of worms !! Do you realize how less custom we've become? The western culture has definitely created an image fallacy. I agree with your examples, but there are PLENTY of cultures that value virginity, marriage, sex, and sexuality to a point where we are capable and able to apply 'rationale' and differentiate ourselves from animals.

Are we not just a step above animals? I think so.

It's not really about the physical pleasures and sex, rather it's the whole ordeal of seeing media influences that sex is cool, that guys pick up girls in clubs, that guys and girls freak on the dance floor being the 'norm' and acceptable standard, when in fact, it is the most pathetic and classless thing ever !!

I guess I am more traditional and more reserved because I cannot see nor understand how some parents and social pressure would promote such behavior. Behavior that has lead to our downfall in our adolescents. From teenage pregnancy, drugs, diseases, etc. I know I wouldn't want my wife to have had multiple partners before. Likewise, I too would not see myself in multiple relationships and multiple marriages.

That's just me. =)


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

illlaymedown said:


> I didn't say recently for one thing. I believe humanity has done a lot of ignorant things throughout history. Never said we should be ashamed of sex either, I believe it's a great thing. Just because you say sex isn't related to love doesn't make it so and just because something makes you happy doesn't mean it's right. My dad is happy as an alcoholic, but he makes everybody miserable around him. Let's just take love out of everything and make it all just "meaningless"...I don't think humanity is lacking in it's view of sex, but it's view of love. If you are "happy" thinking of sex as "merely an act" then more power to you. Go buy all the prostitutes you want and have all the meaningless sex you want. I hope it pleases you by the end of your life. Even the word meaningless says enough in itself.
> PS: FFVIII pwns FFVII!!!!!!(although I was answering a question once again when talking about FFVIII and it's so nice how you feel the need to attack my opinion to makes yours more adequate)


=)

I like FF7. But the best final fantasy game I've played up to that point was FF6 (FF3 in USA on SNES). I love the whole story w/ Tera. The moogle dance, the edgar chainsaw, the sabin blitz. BEST GAME EVER ! Screw 3D games, sprite rules !!!!!!!!!! hahaha


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

Positive said:


> =)
> 
> I like FF7. But the best final fantasy game I've played up to that point was FF6 (FF3 in USA on SNES). I love the whole story w/ Tera. The moogle dance, the edgar chainsaw, the sabin blitz. BEST GAME EVER ! Screw 3D games, sprite rules !!!!!!!!!! hahaha


haha....well, I've never played it so I can't say much about it ...I do like 2D Castevania more than 3D though! FFVIII is just my favorite of all the games I have played which is a lot. I'm a game addict


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## stina (Aug 12, 2009)

Homersxchild said:


> No, there are still plenty of girls that are still virgins, especially if they have SA. Like myself. But I think it's wrong to only look for girls that are still 'virgins'. I would like to be with a guy that it was his first time too, but just looking for that trait is pointless. Look for someone that you click with and really care about, whether she's had sex before shouldn't matter.
> 
> But anyway, there are still girls that are virgins. And some people find it pointless to post in the 'when did you lose..' thread because.. simple, we didn't lose it yet.


^ exactly what i was going to say.

Chill =) You'll find her


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## telefy (Oct 10, 2009)

Thanks everybody for your posts, it's all really helped me figure out how to feel about this stuff. It's really good to hear that some girls stay virgin a while too (even though I know I'm supposed to not care about that what so ever). I can't put my thoughts into words right now (and have been trying for a long time), but I feel better and more established. I'm not sure what my exact philosophy is yet, but it's developing slowly along now. Thx for sharing your thoughts (2D is WAY better, and Fact: all FF games are teh pwnz).


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Yes well,_ Positive_, the thing is that is jsut not the way it works. My father gave me a lecture on this some years ago.

He said:

"*Son, you can't compare how few girlfriends (actually none) you've had, to how many boyfriends your current crush has had. Girls sexually mature faster than boys, and girls usually are attracted to older males. *

*This means that at 14, while you're still struggling to chat up a girl, it is more likely that a 14 y/o girl in your class has had sex with som 16-20 y/o man. And she will continue to have sex with older guys than you while you remain virgin until you yourself are 16-20 y/o.*

*So when you are 16-20 and having sex for the first time, a woman of the same agr group is likely to have had multiple partners*."


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## SunnySkies (Oct 16, 2009)

I lost my virginity one week before I turned 25. I'd been ready for a while and looking for the right guy. I mainly wanted to just be in a relationship. The guy I lost it with turned out to be my future husband. (Yes, he's the only one I've ever been with.) Though there were 2 guys I dated prior to him that could have been my first if things had worked out differently with them.


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## secretlyshecries (Sep 10, 2009)

> This means that at 14, while you're still struggling to chat up a girl, it is more likely that a 14 y/o girl in your class has had sex with som 16-20 y/o man. And she will continue to have sex with older guys than you while you remain virgin until you yourself are 16-20 y/o.
> So when you are 16-20 and having sex for the first time, a woman of the same agr group is likely to have had multiple partners."


Wow. No wonder the way you think is so messed up.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Why does stating this trend make my way of thinking messed up. Is the way i think messed up because its mostly true, in my community ?

When i was thirteen and in junior high, the boyfriend of every girl in my class (those who were dating, anyway) was at least 2 years older than me. Every girl's boyfriend was a senior.

Our high school principle even gave a lecture once. He said it was not right for some guy in 5th form to be dating a 1st form girl. However that is exactly what was happening.

Sometimes we even used to sulk around, cuz one of us would be trying to chat up a girl, and then some dude that's just started college, would roll up in his parents car, and impress her.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

secretlyshecries said:


> Wow. No wonder the way you think is so messed up.


With regard to his claim that girls are generally attracted to older guys, there was a recent poll in this subforum which overwhelmingly confirmed that idea. Straight from the mouths of SAS girls themselves.


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## IllusionOfHappiness (Sep 6, 2007)

telefy said:


> But I browsed through the "How old were you when you lost your virginity" thread and it seems that there aren't so many girls who wait. And the more I think about it; the more I feel that due to the gender role differences in our culture she'll probably have had TONS of sex by now --probably even made spicy home video tapes she's taped labels onto like "Zomg, Frat House: Volume II - The second floor," "Tight Cram: We're goona need some more lube," and "Lucky number 1001: (and 1002 and 1003)."


:lol

Good luck to ya. You're gonna need it. Those are great titles, though. You should work for the porn industry.


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

SunnySkies said:


> I lost my virginity one week before I turned 25. I'd been ready for a while and looking for the right guy. I mainly wanted to just be in a relationship. The guy I lost it with turned out to be my future husband. (Yes, he's the only one I've ever been with.) Though there were 2 guys I dated prior to him that could have been my first if things had worked out differently with them.


How does SA affect you in marriage? Just curious.

This is something I am more towards and see myself doing, possibly. Having sex and sleeping with someone means a lot. And if both have put in genuine time together and if both parties have mutually understood each other, then having sex before marriage isn't such a big deal, is it?


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## Violette (Aug 21, 2005)

Adultfriendfinder is definitely a place that makes sex seem more possible for anyone. You can create fantasies or actually meet. I joined it innocently enough - thought it was a 'friend' site - but have found it quite funny. I get regular emails from guys describing what they're seeking in minute detail. Hilarious.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

illlaymedown said:


> I didn't say recently for one thing. I believe humanity has done a lot of ignorant things throughout history. Never said we should be ashamed of sex either, I believe it's a great thing. Just because you say sex isn't related to love doesn't make it so and just because something makes you happy doesn't mean it's right. My dad is happy as an alcoholic, but he makes everybody miserable around him. Let's just take love out of everything and make it all just "meaningless"...I don't think humanity is lacking in it's view of sex, but it's view of love. If you are "happy" thinking of sex as "merely an act" then more power to you. Go buy all the prostitutes you want and have all the meaningless sex you want. I hope it pleases you by the end of your life. Even the word meaningless says enough in itself.
> PS: FFVIII pwns FFVII!!!!!!(although I was answering a question once again when talking about FFVIII and it's so nice how you feel the need to attack my opinion to makes yours more adequate)


Upon re-reading my message, I realized that it very much sounded like an attack on you, and for that, I apologize. I'd like to make it clear that I don't devalue love. The truth is just the opposite, I want love more than anything. What I don't think we should do is condemn people for having sex without love or for wanting sex in the first place. When SA guys like myself see others regarding men as creeps for wanting sex, we sometimes feel ashamed of our own sexuality because we've had feelings like that ourselves. As a result, we turn inwardly, too afraid to even approach women, let alone express our feelings to them, lest we are branded as a pervert.



Positive said:


> Your opening a whole new can of worms !! Do you realize how less custom we've become? The western culture has definitely created an image fallacy. I agree with your examples, but there are PLENTY of cultures that value virginity, marriage, sex, and sexuality to a point where we are capable and able to apply 'rationale' and differentiate ourselves from animals.
> 
> Are we not just a step above animals? I think so.
> 
> ...


I agree that some forms of media glorify sex (sometimes in pretty bad ways), and in some circles, certain behaviors that resemble sex are seen as the norm, but I wouldn't call it "pathetic and classless." What I wonder is how this particular behavior came to be regarded as obscene by so many people (including myself). We are sexual creatures (we are male or female), and though we have the unique ability to suppress our baser urges, sex is part of what we are. After all, why don't we regard eating in public as obscene? It is a base bodily function, after all, just like sex.

As to your point about the "downfall in our adolescents," I don't think we should attempt to keep them from sex altogether. They are human, after all, and they do have urges. To make them feel bad about those urges is to essentially make them feel bad about what they are. Instead, we should encourage them to have safe sex to prevent pregnancy and the spread of STDs. Granted, teen pregnancy will happen even with education, but without education, I think it's just as likely (if not more) to happen anyway.


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> Upon re-reading my message, I realized that it very much sounded like an attack on you, and for that, I apologize. I'd like to make it clear that I don't devalue love. The truth is just the opposite, I want love more than anything. What I don't think we should do is condemn people for having sex without love or for wanting sex in the first place. When SA guys like myself see others regarding men as creeps for wanting sex, we sometimes feel ashamed of our own sexuality because we've had feelings like that ourselves. As a result, we turn inwardly, too afraid to even approach women, let alone express our feelings to them, lest we are branded as a pervert.
> 
> As to your point about the "downfall in our adolescents," I don't think we should attempt to keep them from sex altogether. They are human, after all, and they do have urges.


It's cool...apology accepted  Honestly I wouldn't have thought you were if you hadn't thrown in the "PS" & worded it that way. I have a question for you. It seems you seem to think sex is an animalistic urge. If I'm wrong, correct me in this, but it seems so. In that case you seem to suggest we should satisfy our urges when they come. How about if you're married & you have urges to have sex with others than your partner. If it's not at all about love then you should be able to have sex with anyone & it be ok unless you don't do it safely which is what you've pointed out. So if it's just an act/urge the condition of your romantic life shouldn't change that. You may think of sex as an urge/act but you have to admit it is a lot different from eating...for one thing, you're sharing your body with another. You never know what they feel for certain, but as much as I've seen those who have sex with each other always have some kind of pull to one another or regret. But again, if you look at my first point, I don't think previous sexual partners should be held against your partner. In my case, all that matters is if he's willing to wait for me.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

illlaymedown said:


> It's cool...apology accepted  Honestly I wouldn't have thought you were if you hadn't thrown in the "PS" & worded it that way. I have a question for you. It seems you seem to think sex is an animalistic urge. If I'm wrong, correct me in this, but it seems so. In that case you seem to suggest we should satisfy our urges when they come. How about if you're married & you have urges to have sex with others than your partner. If it's not at all about love then you should be able to have sex with anyone & it be ok unless you don't do it safely which is what you've pointed out. So if it's just an act/urge the condition of your romantic life shouldn't change that. You may think of sex as an urge/act but you have to admit it is a lot different from eating...for one thing, you're sharing your body with another. You never know what they feel for certain, but as much as I've seen those who have sex with each other always have some kind of pull to one another or regret. But again, if you look at my first point, I don't think previous sexual partners should be held against your partner. In my case, all that matters is if he's willing to wait for me.


Yes, I think sex is a bodily function. But I don't think that "sex" and "sex with someone when you're married to someone else" are quite the same. Romantic love is very much tied to sex, but sex does not always have to be tied to romantic love. Granted, I understand that sometimes people have urges to cheat on their partners, but this is very different from someone simply having casual sex when that someone isn't attached (I wouldn't want to have casual sex anytime soon myself, but I wouldn't condemn someone else for having it). Frankly, if someone has a sexual impulse that can't be fulfilled by his/her partner, then they're not really in love at all.

Please don't misunderstand me, I don't think we should simply act on our urges at all times (self control is part of what makes us human). I was simply commenting on how sex seems to have picked up so much stigma that some people (not you, as I understand it) seem to automatically label it as immoral. We're human, many of us want sex, and I'm hoping we come to accept that and accept one another's sexuality (note: wanting sex is not having sex).

I think we should separate consentual sex from non-consentual sex and unprotected sex, so that the only taboos attached to it are when people become intimate under false pretenses (one partner expecting something long term and the other something short term or cheating), when sex is forced, or when partners don't use contraception properly.


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> Upon re-reading my message, I realized that it very much sounded like an attack on you, and for that, I apologize. I'd like to make it clear that I don't devalue love. The truth is just the opposite, I want love more than anything. What I don't think we should do is condemn people for having sex without love or for wanting sex in the first place. When SA guys like myself see others regarding men as creeps for wanting sex, we sometimes feel ashamed of our own sexuality because we've had feelings like that ourselves. As a result, we turn inwardly, too afraid to even approach women, let alone express our feelings to them, lest we are branded as a pervert.
> 
> I agree that some forms of media glorify sex (sometimes in pretty bad ways), and in some circles, certain behaviors that resemble sex are seen as the norm, but I wouldn't call it "pathetic and classless." What I wonder is how this particular behavior came to be regarded as obscene by so many people (including myself). We are sexual creatures (we are male or female), and though we have the unique ability to suppress our baser urges, sex is part of what we are. After all, why don't we regard eating in public as obscene? It is a base bodily function, after all, just like sex.
> 
> As to your point about the "downfall in our adolescents," I don't think we should attempt to keep them from sex altogether. They are human, after all, and they do have urges. To make them feel bad about those urges is to essentially make them feel bad about what they are. Instead, we should encourage them to have safe sex to prevent pregnancy and the spread of STDs. Granted, teen pregnancy will happen even with education, but without education, I think it's just as likely (if not more) to happen anyway.


I like your thinking !! =)

I know the arguments, but lets be frank here. Why does prime time, tv stations like CNBC, CBS, etc., broadcast shows identical of jeri springer? I mean Geraldo, Montel, Ricki Lake featured nothing but problem adolescents, children. Real or not, staged or reality, these are images ingrained to our kids, to myself, to our generation.

Why is it bad?

I don't think it lies in culture anymore, it lies in common sense, in virtues, in morals that SHOULD NEVER be changed.

Eatting in public is not obscene because it has passed MANY MANY MANY generations, time periods, history of testing. From eatting in public, to eatting on the corner of streets, society, it has challenged our human rationale as 'okay' !

But take something like rape, pillage.

These things have gone through historical times, and the result of such actions are ?

Sex, b4 and after marriage is just the same. I am biased a bit, but I can understand someone's case as having sex w/o commitment and tha's another can of worms that can be heard on both ends.

But I can repeat forever.

The bottom line is that there are no social/moral' bindings in Western culture like that of the Asian,Eastern, cultures. We all know that in America we have pushed the 1 piece bikinis into barely nothing. We have harvested sick crimes that make headlines. We have created a society tha is 'falling apart' !!

In America because Jessica Simpson has so much partners and can't get married, it is 'okay'. Because Britney Spears used 'marriage' as a tool, and had kids, and divorced and kissed Madonna, it is 'okay'. IT IS NOT !!

Really. Where does the leadership come in? NO WHERE.

Here you have tom cruise, harrison ford, angelina jolie. A-LIST peeps creating a fallacy for people. And you have girls standing and screaming their lungs out !!

Where's the coverage for devoted couples?

Just saying..

UGGGH I know you folks know what I mean, well I hope so. But if not, what can I say?


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## Iced Soul (Jan 28, 2009)

Positive said:


> Where's the coverage for devoted couples?


It seems to me they seem to stay out of the limelight, like Freddie Prenz and Sarah Michelle (who just had a baby, btw, within wedlock *and* with a normal name. Shocked the heck out of me when I heard about it, because they are rarely in the news and who has a bay _after_ being married in Hollywood, these days?), Will Smith and Jada, Denzel and Pauletta. I think that's something that helps them stay together, they avoid all the tabloid rumors and all that. Plus, they just seem to take marriage and families much more serious than a lot of other actors. I wish they were covered more.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks for your reply, Positive, but there are some points I disagree on.



Positive said:


> I don't think it lies in culture anymore, it lies in common sense, in virtues, in morals that SHOULD NEVER be changed.


I have a problem with a sense of morality that can never change. At one point, it was moral to bar women from voting and holding public office (I don't mean it was just the law, people actually thought this was a good thing) or to marry only within their own race, etc. If morals don't change, we may never see full marriage equality, or an end to a consumer culture that continues to disregard it's environmental impact. Changing morals, in my opinion, is a good thing. As humanity becomes more socially enlightened, we will inevitably improve.



Positive said:


> The bottom line is that there are no social/moral' bindings in Western culture like that of the Asian,Eastern, cultures. We all know that in America we have pushed the 1 piece bikinis into barely nothing. We have harvested sick crimes that make headlines. We have created a society tha is 'falling apart' !!


If you go to many eastern countries, it is those very morals that rob people of basic freedoms. In Sudan, a number of women were arrested simply for wearing pants. If you go to India, you'll find a casual disregard that borders on outright hate for anyone who is not within one's own immediate family/social circle. Frankly, I would gladly allow women to wear string bikinis if it meant they (and we) could wear what we like. In America, there is still a sense of basic morality. What we're seeing is a stripping away of those norms that infringe on our right to live as we want.



Positive said:


> In America because Jessica Simpson has so much partners and can't get married, it is 'okay'. Because Britney Spears used 'marriage' as a tool, and had kids, and divorced and kissed Madonna, it is 'okay'. IT IS NOT !!
> 
> Here you have tom cruise, harrison ford, angelina jolie. A-LIST peeps creating a fallacy for people. And you have girls standing and screaming their lungs out !!
> 
> Where's the coverage for devoted couples?


I wouldn't say that we consider it "okay" that these people act this way. The reason that tabloids and outrageous TV sells is because these people act in ways that are considered immoral. Some people seem to be very interested in their own moral outrage towards what other people do, and so they watch shows like Jerry Springer and buy tabloid magazines. It's because these people do things that go against what Americans consider is "okay" that they go on. Granted, some people may emulate these people, but those that do do so simply as a bid for attention. If we as Americans can collectively turn away from tabloids, we'll see a noticeable drop in visible smut in the check-out lines for the registers at grocery stores.


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> Yes, I think sex is a bodily function. But I don't think that "sex" and "sex with someone when you're married to someone else" are quite the same. Romantic love is very much tied to sex, but sex does not always have to be tied to romantic love. Granted, I understand that sometimes people have urges to cheat on their partners, but this is very different from someone simply having casual sex when that someone isn't attached (I wouldn't want to have casual sex anytime soon myself, but I wouldn't condemn someone else for having it). Frankly, if someone has a sexual impulse that can't be fulfilled by his/her partner, then they're not really in love at all


K, I think I understand it as u think/thought I was condeming ppl 4 having sex casually..if so then that's not the case& I also don't think desiring sex is wrong either(just because I'm a virgin doesn't mean I don't desire sex cus I do).I just think the best possible way 2 be absolutely certain about sex; protection, motives of each person involved, etc. is n a marriage setting.Let's face it, even w/all the protection, many ppl don't use it, use it improperly, use it properly& have malfunctions, or use it properly& r n the left over percentage of failure rate.If ppl revered marriage as it should b, then these things wouldn't b such an issue.Y would u want 2 ever have meaningless sex when someday u could have meaningful sex?&as I understood it u said it was a function that can or cannot b attached 2 love, so having sex w/another than ur partner would have 2 do w/ur urge& not love.U used eating earlier so, I can eat w/some1 I love& some1 I don't love& that's fine cus it's just a bodily function.As far as morals go, perceptions of morals change, not morals themselves.It depends on what ur absolute standard of morals is.In my case, my christian beliefs provide my standard of moral, I don't know what urs is, but even in christianity, the words stay the same but ppl's understanding change.&I'm on mobile,so 4give the word shortening :[


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## illlaymedown (Oct 6, 2009)

STKinTHEmud said:


> Frankly, I would gladly allow women to wear string bikinis if it meant they (and we) could wear what we like. In America, there is still a sense of basic morality. What we're seeing is a stripping away of those norms that infringe on our right to live as we want.
> 
> I wouldn't say that we consider it "okay" that these people act this way. The reason that tabloids and outrageous TV sells is because these people act in ways that are considered immoral. Some people seem to be very interested in their own moral outrage towards what other people do, and so they watch shows like Jerry Springer and buy tabloid magazines. It's because these people do things that go against what Americans consider is "okay" that they go on. Granted, some people may emulate these people, but those that do do so simply as a bid for attention. If we as Americans can collectively turn away from tabloids, we'll see a noticeable drop in visible smut in the check-out lines for the registers at grocery stores.


The main problem is where and when does the line get crossed...like I said, perceptions change, not actual truth. I once heard someone say that using a car accident they could prove truth changed by all the people that saw the accident having different stories about what exactly happened but still being honest...but all that proves is that people change, not truth. The basics of the accident are still factual and set in stone no matter how many different stories/perspectives are told. What makes it wrong for a person who has an impulse to kill to do so? Is it an infrigement on their freedom to not allow it? When does freedom of speech go too far? Who makes the rules and therefore makes morality? There has to be a moral basis or no morals. What are morals if there is no standard or basis? How do you know when the line is crossed? Also, I agree with the tabloid point, people are quicker to point out other's wrongs than deal with their own for the most part.So peoples let's stop buying them please :lol


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I think girls wait, too......

I'd have to ask the mother of my imaginary illegitimate children.......I don't know who the mother is, so that hypothesis goes right out the window.


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## IHeartSteveMcQueen (May 30, 2009)

entertaining thread, keep up the excellent work, guys.


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