# I give up - Wait, no I don't!



## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

That's it.

I think I tried everything under the sun and I still become anxious when I leave my house. I am as lonely as ever and fed up. Yesterday I went to a bar and it was horrible. I felt worse because I knew I couldn't interact with all the people there. I know exactly what I'm missing and that makes everything worse.

I'm also tired of having to be a slave to a rigorous daily supplement regime just so I can be semi functional. I have come upon stuff that has a small effect but it doesn't eliminate the symptoms all together.

I don't know what else to do...so this is me giving up!

I'm my opinion, nothing works. We will be stuck in this way forever.

Then, I read this article that states the source of social phobia as an imbalance in serotonin and dopamine. So..here we go again. I've taken tyrosine and L-tryphtophan but again, they are short of a cure.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/05/13 ... /2278.html

Another says chronic feeling of loneliness, which I suffer from always, is due to the overexpression of genes for inflammation. So maybe a strong anti-inflammatory agent is key? There is also an inflammatory theory of depression that says dep. is caused by inflammatory cytokines among other things. So, inflammation is the enemy?

http://psychcentral.com/news/2007/09/13 ... /1278.html

So I need your help. I will try and make a list of all the things I've tried and you tell me if I'm missing anything...

MAGNESIUM
LECITHIN (this made me the most social out of everything)
GLYCINATE
TAURINE
RHODIOLA ROSEA
MSM
B-COMPLEX
TRACE MINERALS
DMAE
MELATONIN
L-THEANINE
CHAMOMILE
GABA
L-TYROSINE
VITAMIN A & D (25000 IU AND 1000 IU RESP.)
ACETYL L-CARNITINE
L-GLUTAMINE
L-TRYPTOPHAN
ZINC
BORON
GREEN TEA EXTRACT
GREEN FOODS
FISH OIL
CURCUMIN
QUERCETIN


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## Drew (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

You may want to take a look at The Mood Cure for a more concrete plan for supplementation: http://www.amazon.com/Mood-Cure-Rebalan ... 0670030694

Someone in a Social Anxiety Group I went to in San Francisco recommended it to me.

I'm experimenting with supplementation right now and can certainly understand your frustration with taking an excessive number of supplements. When I have a handful of 15 pills in my hand...I can't help but think, isn't this ridiculous?

I'll be posting my experiences after I can form a conclusion on whether it helps me consistently over a long term basis.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

Don't give up man. I may not be a social or popular person but I am not a quitter either.

It is all about our personality and our brain chemicals.

You say that lecithin made you social. I once read that people with higher acetylcholine levels are more social and have more friends. This is why I think anything that is good for alzheimer patients is good for us. It makes sense because when you can express yourself easily find the most suitable words you keep talking and become a person who is not afraid to communicate with other people.

This site needs a forum feature so that we can see the profile of this community. I am also not sure we all have the same problems.

I found the link about acetycholine and personality.

http://www.spwb.com/articles/brainarticle.html

*I think I have too much dopamine, little acetycholine, gaba and consequently serotonin.

I think too much dopamine because I am a perfectionist and expect too much from myself. Also driven, very high libido and overly intense.

Very little acetylcholine because I am not an articulate person who can express his thoughts easily.

Very little Gaba because I am focused on what other people think. On the other hand, self confident people enjoy judging other people. I constantly think what other people think about me.*

Very little serotonin because having highest scores on SAT,GRE does not make me happy anymore. I need to become social.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: I give up.*



proximo20 said:


> I think too much dopamine because I am a perfectionist and expect too much from myself. Also driven, very high libido and overly intense.


This defines me perfectly.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

Histamine and dopamine might be connected. Because there is an article "Characterization of *Histamine-Induced Catecholamine Secretion* from Bovine Adrenal Medullary Chromaffin Cells"
*
And dopamine is one of the catecolamines. So I think I have still too much dopamine but probably because of high histamine as you say.*

This copper toxicity and pyroluria may all be connected to high histamine because when you have too much copper, it becomes biounavailable. So too much copper can cause the deficiency of its antagonists like zinc, magnesium , choline and B-6. Also Copper is part of the enzyme histaminase, which is involved in the metabolism of histamine.

*I also noticed that most of the anxious people have this stuffy nose problem. *


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

When I googled dopamine and libido there are lots of links, including many herbs that increase libido by increasing dopamine.

From wikipedia
*
Libido can be increased by drugs that affect dopamine, but not by drugs that affect opioid peptides or other neurotransmitters.*

But i think increased catecolamines including dopamine is due to high histamine levels.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

*Re: I give up.*

how about a good diet? you'll feel better, sleep better, and have overall better health.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: I give up.*

I never considered the idea of high histamine. I wasn't convinced until I read

"I also noticed that most of the anxious people have this stuffy nose problem. "

I never suffer from allergies but I do occasionally have a stuffy nose for no apparent reason.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

Methtyl groups form the building blocks of all organic molecules in the body. The body continuously breaks down and builds up body tissue and body cells. *Millions of times per second methyl groups are used in the body for the construction of molecules. This process is called 'methylation'.*

SYMPTOMS OF UNDERMETHYLATION:
Competitiveness
Excess saliva
Obsessive-compulsive
Perfectionism
Easy tears
High libido
Addictive tendencies

I have these symptoms. *But the suggestions for histadelia do not work for me. SAM-e, fish oil and TMG made my libido higher than ever. *

High histamine or undermethylation might be the problem but I don't know what the solution for this is.

*I think taking glutamine and lecithin or choline can be a temporary solution for me. I once read here someone taking choline with vodka. It is the same principal, this way you increase your acetylcholine and gaba.*

I just know dairy increases histamine and mainly sulfur compounds decreases it.


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## sparkations (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: I give up.*

good mood and physical health is also dependent on a holistic, well balanced diet too. Cut out sugar. Get your essential fatty acids. Get your vitamin sources from green leafy vegetables. Try to get as much fiber as you can. Trust me-you'll feel sooo much better. I have. I think far too many people neglect that and think that one vitamin or pill can be the cure-all for everything. think wholistically


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

This is why this site needs a poll feature. I really doubt that we all share the same problems.

I also believe that without proper diet no pill is going to help me but I need extra support.

*Frankly I do not think that I am the quiest person in a group of people or scared of doing a presentation, because I eat junk food and I am not.*

*To feel good to sleep better a good diet is necessary but what am I going to do if I can not find a word to say or when my hands are shaking during a presentation. *


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## leppardess (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: I give up.*



> This is why this site needs a poll feature.


There's a whole forum for making polls...

viewforum.php?f=60


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: I give up.*

This is good enough. I was thinking something here, like do you benefit from this supp or etc. but as I said this is good enough I will check it.

Thanks


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## nadinek (Jun 26, 2008)

*to Beggotia*

Hey beggotia,

Have you ever taken a benzo for your SA? I have and it really does work wonders.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: I give up.*

I haven't taken Benzo's...

I'm trying a drug free approach to this. I've experienced the side effects of B-blockers and antidepressants before and I don't want to go back.


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## nadinek (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: I give up.*



Beggiatoa said:


> I haven't taken Benzo's...
> 
> I'm trying a drug free approach to this. I've experienced the side effects of B-blockers and antidepressants before and I don't want to go back.


Did the antidepressants work for your SA? I posted this on a different thread but you might want to try looking into this middle eastern herb called asafoetida... I take a teaspoon of it and it COMPLETELY knocks me out-- I think it is used for nervousness and just anxiety in general so it should help with SA as well?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: I give up.*



proximo20 said:


> Methtyl groups form the building blocks of all organic molecules in the body. The body continuously breaks down and builds up body tissue and body cells. *Millions of times per second methyl groups are used in the body for the construction of molecules. This process is called 'methylation'.*
> 
> SYMPTOMS OF UNDERMETHYLATION:
> Competitiveness
> ...


I am going to bump this thread for a couple of reason.

1. I was so wrong! I hadn't tried everything. I've been married to Iherb for the last couple of weeks (love their search function) and I've learned a whole lot.

I think I controlled depression by consuming all the Essential fatty acid I need. Most of us stay away from fat for the obvious reasons but not all fats are bad. I take Cod liver oil, wheat germ oil, evening primrose oil and coconut oil and lots of yogurt. Our brains need fat fat fat! As far as depression goes, I feel awsome!!

2. I was reading that High homocysteine levels can cause other problems away from the usual cardiac, renal. This can cause depression, demotivation, apathy, fatigue, lack of concentration etc. You can lower homocysteine with TMG, trymethylglycine and with other methyl donors. Now, MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane) is a methyl donor. Proximo20 stated here again and again that he became more verbal and fluent when he took MSM. I think he was on to something and this explains why. MSM is a mild methyl donor, TMG is stronger so it's effect will be predictably strong against undermethylation.

It took me a while to look into homocysteine/methylation, but this seems to be very important. If you search TMG on iherb, you'll see that is has great reviews from users for these very same reasons.

3. Also, I think I know why Lecithin ( a choline provider) works so well for me. I think I have a chronic thiamine (B1) deficiency. This causes dysautonomia. This study says that thiamine deficiency impairs acetylcholine metabolism.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/conte ... /217/3/537

So it makes sense that choline had a positive effect on me. Alzheimer's patients tend to have low acetylcholine levels. Maybe they can also benefit from taking extra thiamine.

The big question still remains: Why are we deficient in all these things?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Proper methylation is also said to regulate neurotransmitters...all of them!

Methyl donors help in the production of several brain chemicals and hence have an influence on sexual enjoyment, mood, energy, wellbeing, alertness, concentration, and visual clarity.


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## Pharao (Jun 10, 2004)

Thanx for bringing it to our attention...I spent a few hours researching it and it sounds really promising...Have you tried TMG yet?

This is what Im probably going to order...
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.asp ... =3344&at=0

Also here is some more information about TMG:
http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T36338.html


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Pharao said:


> Thanx for bringing it to our attention...I spent a few hours researching it and it sounds really promising...Have you tried TMG yet?
> 
> This is what Im probably going to order...
> http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.asp ... =3344&at=0
> ...


That's exactly the one I'm getting. I also want to try the Jarrow homocysteine formula that has all the B vitamins. From that link, I found this interesting:

TMG is a versatile nutrient and provides an intermediary metabolite that can enable a person or animal to function at more optimum mental and physical levels. It aids the body in overcoming a number of adverse health conditions, and is an intricate part of human metabolism. DMG (TMG's metabolite) has been used as a nutritional supplement for over 25 years. In a broad sense, TMG protects the body from many forms of physical, metabolic and environmental stress.

Applications include:
Immune modulation: Improves antibody response, enhances B- and T-cell function, and regulates cytokines.
Viral/bacterial infections: Enhances immune response.
Cardiovascular: Reduces cholesterol and triglyceride levels, helps eliminate hypoxia, improves coronary circulation, decreases angina pain.
Athletic performance: Enhances endurance, improves oxygen utilization, reduces lactic acid buildup, improves muscle recovery.
Autism/epilepsy: Improves verbal communication/social interaction/lethargy, may reduce seizures.
Chronic fatigue syndrome: Greater mental alertness and energy, improves immune dysfunction.
Melanoma: Anti-tumor activity, prevents metastasis.
Lupus (SLE): Reduces antinuclear antibodies, modulates cytokine production.
Contributes to DNA stability: As a methyl donor supplement, it helps protect cellular DNA from mutation.
Liver detoxification
Brain neurotransmitter production
Lowering homocysteine levels naturally: Thereby lowers risk of heart and vascular disease.

So TMG helps production of NT naturally. That interests me.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

TMG can have adverse effects on cholesterol but we are using so many supps against chol. and work out i don't think we would have a problem. 

Also Folic acid and Vit.B12 are good for high homocysteine.

I guess I also have high homocysteine, because it is one of the consequences of insulin resistance and Type 2 diabetes.


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