# Mail order spouses?



## mfd (May 5, 2013)

Lately there have been some threads about escorts and prostitutes, with posts both in favor and opposed to hiring them. That made me think of a somewhat-related topic.

With so many SAS posters expressing loneliness at not being in a relationship, and doubts as to whether they'll ever find someone, I'm wondering about people's opinions on mail order spouse.

For the purposes of the poll, the mail order spouse could be male _or_ female, and assume it's legal where you live. It's anonymous, so don't be afraid to answer honestly. Feel free to reply and expand on your answer if you wish.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Mail order brides? Man, shipping and handling must be a bytch.

There have been at least two guys that did this. One found one from Mexico, the other from Bangeldash. They don't post here anymore though.


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## berlingot (Nov 2, 2005)

mail order brides are actually illegal in the Philippines. they've been replaced by "pen pals."

the thought of finding a husband through the mail makes my skin crawl. it attracts all sorts of creepy Asian fetishists.


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

berlingot said:


> mail order brides are actually illegal in the Philippines. they've been replaced by "pen pals."


I have an uncle whose wife is from the Philippines. About 14 years ago he went over there to meet 3 women, and came back married to one.

Kind of obvious what happened there 

The guy is a pervert, and a control freak. She has to ask him permission for everything, even stuff like having an orange from the kitchen - and that's when other people are around. I can't imagine what life must be like for her when it's just them.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Daughter's friend's dad also when to the Phils to find a wife. She's 10 years younger. They divorced and he went back to find another one. She's 20 years younger. And as dickish as it sounds, the guy looks disgusting.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

nubly said:


> Daughter's friend's dad also when to the Phils to find a wife. She's 10 years younger. They divorced and he went back to find another one. She's 20 years younger. And as dickish as it sounds, the guy looks disgusting.


There is a really weird trend like that. I watched a documentary on guy's (usually older men that had no success with relationships in their home country) going to Asia to meet people, some of them had gone back and forward a few times after getting divorced. I feel bad for the women who marry guy's like that out of vulnerability.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

nubly said:


> Daughter's friend's dad also when to the Phils to find a wife. She's 10 years younger. They divorced and he went back to find another one. She's 20 years younger. And as dickish as it sounds, the guy looks disgusting.


Funny, I have just met a mail order bride from China who is now American citizen and divorced. The husband is an American from New England. He bought a 20 years younger bride, got her pregnant with two children, then divorced her after 5 years, I think because she turned 30! Then he went and bought a young Filipino woman. I find this really obscene myself and offered to marry the divorcee with her children. We went out on a date she said it was the coolest date she had been on yet. I think she may come around. I offered to marry her point blank after considering that she married an American man that she didn't know. I felt, rather than knowing more about her, I should just marry her the same as she did, without prior love. Of course I hate the USA and would consent to moving to China and learning Chinese.

The man who bought this woman originally was pure scum. You can call me a misogynist, but some of these guys around here don't want women to even vote. She said he beat her up too.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm opposed to this, and prostitution, on ethical (but not moral as such) grounds, so no. But I'm not condemning anyone who would.


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

I'm rather surprised with these results so far! I thought for sure there would be at least a couple votes in the upper categories, based on some of the threads and comments I've seen elsewhere.

Relationship dynamics are fascinating to me. I wish I could probe the minds of the users on this site to understand how the thought process goes. It's such a chaotic jumble of emotions, desires, and societal pressures... and yet somehow, people tend to all arrive at the same position.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

My brother met his wife on the internet. She's from Russia and he went over there to meet her. Not longer after that she came here and they got married. They've been married for almost 9 years. I don't know if that can be considered a mail order bride.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365001610

Program: Independent Lens
Episode: Seeking Asian Female
Two strangers - an elderly American man and a young Chinese woman - pursue a marriage brokered by the internet, but they get more than they bargained for when she moves across the Pacific to start a new life with him in America, in this intimate and quirky, personal documentary about modern love.


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## apx24 (Jan 31, 2012)

No I wouldn't pay for a wife. I'd pay for a prostitute if I was desperate, but if I was going to get married I'd have to be in love


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

komorikun said:


> http://video.pbs.org/video/2365001610
> 
> Program: Independent Lens
> Episode: Seeking Asian Female
> Two strangers - an elderly American man and a young Chinese woman - pursue a marriage brokered by the internet, but they get more than they bargained for when she moves across the Pacific to start a new life with him in America, in this intimate and quirky, personal documentary about modern love.


I watched that, and I don't understand why the girls would go out with someone like that.

It is an interesting idea, I'm just not sure how good it would work out in reality though. There are some benefits to it and some drawbacks.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

This practice is very shady and capitalistic. I think the initial buying of a woman this way is too superficial, and that consequently the man can never really believe the woman loves him, and so ends up divorcing. Its probably even addicting to buy one woman after another, like a new car, you buy it, use it for a while, then trade it in. Its a shallow relationship. Anytime you have a woman specifically because you are rich or have money, then the woman loses value, and the man is more prone to cheat.

I suspect this is historically why men cheat, because women are with them specifically for money, and the relationship is shallow.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Classified said:


> I watched that, and I don't understand why the girls would go out with someone like that.
> 
> It is an interesting idea, I'm just not sure how good it would work out in reality though. There are some benefits to it and some drawbacks.


I guess if you are poor enough. If I was living in a slum or some little village in India, I'd do the same. Marry some old American or European guy and get the hell out of there. Then divorce once I have permanent residency and a decent job to support myself.

I'm not sure if that woman in the video realized quite how broke that guy is though. He doesn't have a house, nor a car. She said she couldn't go back to China because she would lose face.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

I dont know why some men over 40 here wouldn't at least consider this possibility

Heck the world is full of desperate people, find someone and get married


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

I would not get involved in importing women. It smacks of human trafficking. The only way I would consider something like this, is if I was actually a permanent resident in the nation the woman was from, not taking her back to the USA. The USA is over-rated anyway.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

i've seen documentaries on this. 

as weird as it sounds I have considered the idea of marrying a lady from abroad. the chances of me meeting someone and getting married any other way just seem ridiculously small, I quite like foreigners and i've often found people who are foreign attractive. also companionship ,it might help me to feel better about myself. there should be a mutual benefit for both of us (hopefully). i'd treat her well, I wouldn't be like some controlling tyrant which you normally see with this sort of thing.

the idea was sparked off by me knowing a couple who my friend suggested were married so one of them could live in the country,they have a perfectly happy normal seeming relationship and if I wasn't told I wouldn't have even guessed. although it may not have been true. kind of sounds a bit unromantic but i've always sucked at romance anyway lol.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

For those outside of the PBS region (I'm UK and couldn't watch it there) who would like to watch the documentary:





 (part1)





 (part 2)

(edit)- Just watched the documentary, it is well worth seeing. Very sad in places but funny and very very interesting.


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## Whatev (Feb 6, 2012)




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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

renegade disaster said:


> i've seen documentaries on this.
> 
> as weird as it sounds I have considered the idea of marrying a lady from abroad. the chances of me meeting someone and getting married any other way just seem ridiculously small, I quite like foreigners and i've often found people who are foreign attractive. also companionship ,it might help me to feel better about myself. there should be a mutual benefit for both of us (hopefully). i'd treat her well, I wouldn't be like some controlling tyrant which you normally see with this sort of thing.
> 
> the idea was sparked off by me knowing a couple who my friend suggested were married so one of them could live in the country,they have a perfectly happy normal seeming relationship and if I wasn't told I wouldn't have even guessed. although it may not have been true. kind of sounds a bit unromantic but i've always sucked at romance anyway lol.


You may be right. I once nearly married a Moroccan woman, but they were going to pay ME around 4000 dollars. Don't ask me where immigrants come up with so much money! I was personally happy to marry this Arabic woman, because I put a higher value on these sort of swarthy women due to their being more simplistic and companionable. Like they become your buddies rather than an aloof or snooty American woman, who behaves strangely and acts standoffish. So that may work. I liked the idea of being paid rather than paying also. It fell through though. These shady deals can fall through.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

michijo said:


> You may be right. I once nearly married a Moroccan woman, but they were going to pay ME around 4000 dollars. Don't ask me where immigrants come up with so much money! I was personally happy to marry this Arabic woman, because I put a higher value on these sort of swarthy women due to their being more simplistic and companionable. Like they become your buddies rather than an aloof or snooty American woman, who behaves strangely and acts standoffish. So that may work. I liked the idea of being paid rather than paying also. It fell through though. These shady deals can fall through.


yea I think part of the problem is that it's technically illegal. well, it seems a grey area from my limited understanding (its not something i've really looked into, just more of a random thought passing consideration). in this country I believe you can be arrested on certain grounds for sham marriages. that is, if they think you are marrying someone, so that one person, or both(?) is intending to stay in the country.... but I don't know if it only becomes illegal when certain documents expire? and its based upon the nationalities of the people involved. or they are getting around certain immigration requirements?...
I mean ,foreign mail order brides are a similar sort of thing yet afaik they are legal? whos to say that the brides intention is to stay with the guy rather than get a free passport into an economically better country. does that then make it illegal? its all a little bit confusing.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Just... no.


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## typemismatch (May 30, 2012)

What would the returns policy be? If I break the seal am I still able to return her? :um


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

typemismatch said:


> What would the returns policy be? * If I break the seal *am I still able to return her? :um


euphemism?


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## Nekomata (Feb 3, 2012)

Naw, sounds kinda boring x_x; they might not even have anything in common with you... bleh >.>;


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## Jig210 (Jan 24, 2013)

When I go to my father and step mom's house, she always joking suggest I auction myself off to women overseas. Mainly as a way for them to get into the country, said I could get upwards of 20k. 

Of course its just joking....


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## typemismatch (May 30, 2012)

renegade disaster said:


> euphemism?


You have a dirty mind. I just meant the packaging on the box that she comes in. :wink

I think the good thing about a mail order bride is being able to track her by ParcelForce or DHL or whatever. Then you'll get the message saying to be in between 1pm and 6pm to receive your bride. Then the van will appear and you'll see the delivery guy heaving the box out the back of the van up to your door. The excitement will build. You open your door and there he is with his little clipboard for you to sign. Then you realise the box is slightly bashed, and that the THIS WAY UP ^ messaging on the box is the wrong way up. Then you notice the FRAGILE wording, and your heart melts and you know that you are meant for each other.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

renegade disaster said:


> yea I think part of the problem is that it's technically illegal. well, it seems a grey area from my limited understanding (its not something i've really looked into, just more of a random thought passing consideration). in this country I believe you can be arrested on certain grounds for sham marriages. that is, if they think you are marrying someone, so that one person, or both(?) is intending to stay in the country.... but I don't know if it only becomes illegal when certain documents expire? and its based upon the nationalities of the people involved. or they are getting around certain immigration requirements?...
> I mean ,foreign mail order brides are a similar sort of thing yet afaik they are legal? whos to say that the brides intention is to stay with the guy rather than get a free passport into an economically better country. does that then make it illegal? its all a little bit confusing.


My experience is this: I had a friend who new a Moroccon woman that lived in the USA already under some sort of pretense, not sure what, temporary residency maybe, and she lived with her brother. I still remember her name was Sannaa or something, a pretty average looking Moroccon woman. And they wanted to pay me to marry her, a lot of money, because I am American.

It was going to be tricky, like pretending to live together, and having immigration meetings with officials. The deal was also that we would get divorced later. That was why they were paying me, so that she could get citizenship, then get divorced.

Looking back, I might have been more clever and said I would do it for free or much less money, and try to actually become the woman's husband. She wasn't like a hardcore Muslim or anything. She didnt wear a Burqa. I was only in my 20s at the time. They threw this big figure of money at me, a couple thousand, and I was poor. I wanted money.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

I just had an idea today that could be interesting for westerners or Americans, to set up a dating site directed at poor women in 3rd world countries, and the deal is merely they can become an American citizen or something free if they marry a man who is lonely. Instead of working with money, they would merely move in on the western man. It could be called like Free Citizenship Dating Service. After all, the woman rarely sees any of the money she is bought for. Why not bypass the middle man?


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

michijo said:


> I just had an idea today that could be interesting for westerners or Americans, to set up a dating site directed at poor women in 3rd world countries, and the deal is merely they can become an American citizen or something free if they marry a man who is lonely. Instead of working with money, they would merely move in on the western man. It could be called like Free Citizenship Dating Service. After all, the woman rarely sees any of the money she is bought for. Why not bypass the middle man?


I think a lot of those women would wind up being abused or otherwise treated poorly, unfortunately. The guy would be able to use the threat of sending her back as a way to control her, or to keep her quiet.

It also seems a little too close to prostitution for my taste, mainly for the woman. Rather than the payoff being a monetary one, she would be getting citizenship. It reminds me of a movie called Crossing Over, in which an immigration agent offers to speed up the green card process for a woman if she'll be with him.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

typemismatch said:


> You have a dirty mind. I just meant the packaging on the box that she comes in. :wink
> 
> I think the good thing about a mail order bribe is being able to track her by ParcelForce or DHL or whatever. Then you'll get the message saying to be in between 1pm and 6pm to receive your bride. Then the van will appear and you'll see the delivery guy heaving the box out the back of the van up to your door. The excitement will build. You open your door and there he is with his little clipboard for you to sign. Then you realise the box is slightly bashed, and that the THIS WAY UP ^ messaging on the box is the wrong way up. Then you notice the FRAGILE wording, and your heart melts and you know that you are meant for each other.






michijo said:


> My experience is this: I had a friend who new a Moroccon woman that lived in the USA already under some sort of pretense, not sure what, temporary residency maybe, and she lived with her brother. I still remember her name was Sannaa or something, a pretty average looking Moroccon woman. And they wanted to pay me to marry her, a lot of money, because I am American.
> 
> It was going to be tricky, like pretending to live together, and having immigration meetings with officials. The deal was also that we would get divorced later. That was why they were paying me, so that she could get citizenship, then get divorced.
> 
> Looking back, I might have been more clever and said I would do it for free or much less money, and try to actually become the woman's husband. She wasn't like a hardcore Muslim or anything. She didnt wear a Burqa. I was only in my 20s at the time. They threw this big figure of money at me, a couple thousand, and I was poor. I wanted money.


that's understandable. especially as someone with anxiety or loneliness sometimes you feel you have to grasp the opportunity... i've seen something on tv about the immigration meetings before, the two people involved have to try and pretend they are in a relationship which means obviously faking their own desire for each other. that seems kind of ridiculous all around really ,I mean the process of having to fake it seems a bit weird but also how do they even measure if you are faking it? do they note the amount of kisses and hugs? lol. "6 hugs ,two kisses and a pat on the bum is suffient criteria for validity of their marriage!"
















yea I suppose you don't know how you'd get along with the person unless you found someone who would seem like a decent friend. in that instance it could work out quite well and you might just stay together I suppose, you could even end up with an open relationship where by both of you agree that you can date other people. sounds like a bit too much of a violation of marriage doesn't it? :lol

I guess it depends on how you view marriage though. tbh I don't really think it means much to a lot of people these days. fair enough if two people wish to commit themselves to each other and dedicate themselves to their vows. but its rarely the fairytale that people imagine.



michijo said:


> I just had an idea today that could be interesting for westerners or Americans, to set up a dating site directed at poor women in 3rd world countries, and the deal is merely they can become an American citizen or something free if they marry a man who is lonely. Instead of working with money, they would merely move in on the western man. It could be called like Free Citizenship Dating Service. After all, the woman rarely sees any of the money she is bought for. Why not bypass the middle man?


hmm I dunno. I think you'd have to check what the laws are as it sounds a little dubious.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

mfd said:


> I think a lot of those women would wind up being abused or otherwise treated poorly, unfortunately. The guy would be able to use the threat of sending her back as a way to control her, or to keep her quiet.
> 
> It also seems a little too close to prostitution for my taste, mainly for the woman. Rather than the payoff being a monetary one, she would be getting citizenship. It reminds me of a movie called Crossing Over, in which an immigration agent offers to speed up the green card process for a woman if she'll be with him.


yea it does seem a bit exploitative


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## Alienated (Apr 17, 2013)

I live in the USA, and haven't found any American woman I would date a second time. I'm too easy going and down to earth, to put up with their mood swings and medication side effects !


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

the thing is we can all kind of generalise about western women. but there actually is a big difference that I have noticed between eastern european women and their attitudes to partnership and the western equivalent. I've been over to that part of the world and know spouses of friends that are from over there and their extended families. as well as some interactions with their communities.

I kind of feel sorry for guys in the west that are more traditional and old fashioned in their approach of what a husband and wife scenario should be like and their ideas of what a wife should be. my father for example it seems has been left behind with the modern world changing and its ideas about partnership and male female relationships. I think he just wants a woman who will cook, clean and be a homemaker that isn't interested her career etc. I have mentioned to him about getting a foreign wife but he's not interested. I think he's just given up and/ or is jaded in general!


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

renegade disaster said:


> the thing is we can all kind of generalise about western women. but there actually is a big difference that I have noticed between eastern european women and their attitudes to partnership and the western equivalent. I've been over to that part of the world and know spouses of friends that are from over there and their extended families. as well as some interactions with their communities.
> 
> I kind of feel sorry for guys in the west that are more traditional and old fashioned in their approach of what a husband and wife scenario should be like and their ideas of what a wife should be. my father for example it seems has been left behind with the modern world changing and its ideas about partnership and male female relationships. I think he just wants a woman who will cook, clean and be a homemaker that isn't interested her career etc. I have mentioned to him about getting a foreign wife but he's not interested. I think he's just given up and/ or is jaded in general!


Wouldn't your dad's potential wife already be retired? If both are retired then cooking and cleaning should be 50/50.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

komorikun said:


> Wouldn't your dad's potential wife already be retired? If both are retired then cooking and cleaning should be 50/50.


I think he was looking for someone who is a bit younger and not yet retired, that's what his friend told me. I don't even know if he's interested anymore though now.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

The thing is you have to be a fool to not focus on your career. Divorce rates are around 40% and life-time employment does not exist anymore. So you are screwed if your husband decides to leave you or if he gets laid off.

The bad thing about marrying someone in their 40s or 50s is probably their kids are still at home. By the time they are in their 60s you can be pretty sure the kids have all flown the coop.


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## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

mfd said:


> Lately there have been some threads about escorts and prostitutes, with posts both in favor and opposed to hiring them. That made me think of a somewhat-related topic.
> 
> With so many SAS posters expressing loneliness at not being in a relationship, and doubts as to whether they'll ever find someone, I'm wondering about people's opinions on mail order spouse.
> 
> For the purposes of the poll, the mail order spouse could be male _or_ female, and assume it's legal where you live. It's anonymous, so don't be afraid to answer honestly. Feel free to reply and expand on your answer if you wish.


I didn't want to answer the poll because I didn't find an answer that matched my thoughts. Even if all was well legally and morally with the process, I fail to see how such a spouse would actually provide what anyone in our positions would be seeking. Genuine connection and intimacy spawned from love.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

renegade disaster said:


> that's understandable. especially as someone with anxiety or loneliness sometimes you feel you have to grasp the opportunity... i've seen something on tv about the immigration meetings before, the two people involved have to try and pretend they are in a relationship which means obviously faking their own desire for each other. that seems kind of ridiculous all around really ,I mean the process of having to fake it seems a bit weird but also how do they even measure if you are faking it? do they note the amount of kisses and hugs? lol. "6 hugs ,two kisses and a pat on the bum is suffient criteria for validity of their marriage!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think actually there is a very serious way to run a fake marriage, and that is to actually get into each other in a serious way. I once read that a prostitute should always try to enjoy itself. In effect, I was acting as a sort of prostitute but not playing it right. I should have actually got cozy with the Morocco woman, not worried about money so much, and actually make a show of a somewhat superficial relationship. Then they could have paid me, and if she wanted a divorce, it's fair.

I wasnt doing it right at all. I was really young and unprepared for that sort of game. I'm slightly more savvy now.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

VanGogh said:


> I didn't want to answer the poll because I didn't find an answer that matched my thoughts. Even if all was well legally and morally with the process, I fail to see how such a spouse would actually provide what anyone in our positions would be seeking. Genuine connection and intimacy spawned from love.


There may not be any such thing as genuine intimacy. It may all merely be method-acting that people are fooling themselves with. I once read of a study that showed that people who made eye-contact for so many minutes everyday began to fall in love, purely from being sat at a desk across from each other and made to stare into each other's eyes. Consequently, there is no magical connection that sparks between two people that are destined to be with each other or need to be with each other. In effect, you could learn to be the husband or boyfriend of almost anyone if you let yourself. We are only fooled by appearances and superficial attractions. Every person is basically the same person.

That's what really freaks people out, that they are not really individuals. People are all nobodies.


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

C'mon now... really.

If you get this desperate please just splash on a real doll, dont get involved with human trafficking.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

I watched another doc. about this subject on youtube...... and some of the comments, from people obviously offended that this particular doc. had focused on some of the problems of human trafficking, were just awful. Basically the gist is that the odd murder and abuse case doesn't matter because what about the brides who take a bit of money from their poor, poor western husbands.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

is mail order spouses actually human trafficking though? surely the businesses would have been shut down if that were the case.

if it is then that just makes things even more blurred as human trafficking is a proper shady business, it often involves poor human rights and people being forced against their will etc. but obviously there's a definition somewhere in there of right and wrong and it can't be quite as catch all as that.
seems a bit sweeping to say that the process isn't right ,it appears more muddled and idiosyncratic than that.



komorikun said:


> The thing is you have to be a fool to not focus on your career. Divorce rates are around 40% and life-time employment does not exist anymore. So you are screwed if your husband decides to leave you or if he gets laid off.
> 
> The bad thing about marrying someone in their 40s or 50s is probably their kids are still at home. By the time they are in their 60s you can be pretty sure the kids have all flown the coop.


yup! I think he's just given up now.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

renegade disaster said:


> is mail order spouses actually human trafficking though? surely the businesses would have been shut down if that were the case.
> 
> if it is then that just makes things even more blurred as human trafficking is a proper shady business, it often involves poor human rights and people being forced against their will etc. but obviously there's a definition somewhere in there of right and wrong and it can't be quite as catch all as that.
> seems a bit sweeping to say that the process isn't right ,it appears more muddled and idiosyncratic than that.
> ...


Actually, there is a lot of human trafficking in the USA. Mail order bride is merely human trafficking-lite. There is all kinds of white-slavery going on in the USA, girls transported around in trucks for the porn industry. There was even a scandal about Uzbek prostitutes being moved through the USA without the government doing anything. All around, I would say there is a lot of bad stuff going on in the USA. There was one political move to shut down some mail order brides. I would have to find it.

I was just reading about violence against mail order brides. Its quite rampant. I do not really agree with mail order brides in general.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail-...gainst_mail-order-brides_in_the_United_States


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

In September 2003, 26-year-old Ukrainian engineer and mail-order bride Alla Barney bled to death on the floor of her car after her American husband Lester Barney, 58, slashed her throat in front of the couple's four-year-old son Daniel. Lester fled with Daniel from the scene in the parking lot of the boy's day-care center; after an Amber Alert was triggered, he turned Daniel over to a friend and was taken into custody by police. Alla had been granted a restraining order against Lester a few months before, and had been given temporary custody of Daniel.[52][53]

Anastasia King, a young woman from Kyrgyzstan, was found strangled and buried in a shallow grave in Washington State in December 2000. At age 18 Anastasia received an email from a 38-year-old Seattle man, Indle King, from a mail-order-bride website. He flew to her country, and they were married soon after. Two years later, after considerable strife, Indle wanted another bride. He was allegedly unwilling to pay for a divorce, so he ordered a tenant in their Washington home to kill Anastasia. Weighing nearly 300 pounds, her husband pinned Anastasia down while the tenant strangled her with a necktie. Both were convicted of murder. King's previous wife (whom he had also met through an IMB) had a domestic violence protection order issued against him, and left him because he was abusive.[54][55]

Nina Reiser was a Russian-born and -trained obstetrician and gynaecologist. She was murdered by her husband Hans Reiser, a businessman and computer programmer whom she met after placing an ad in a mail-order bride catalog.[56] She had a restraining order against him during their divorce proceedings. Nina was reported missing on September 5, 2006. That month Hans was detained by Oakland police due to suspicions surrounding the disappearance of his wife, and was later arrested for suspected murder. On April 28, 2008 Hans Reiser was found guilty of first-degree murder, and was sentenced to 15 years to life in prison. On July 7, 2008 Hans led Oakland police to his wife's remains with an agreement to be charged with second-degree murder instead.[57]


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

I found it, its called IMBRA. International Marriage Broker Regulation Act. Its supposed to make trouble for mail order brides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBRA

I am sure the right-wing nuts are all over this because of big government involvement. I know the anti-misandry crew hate this act. I agree with some anti-misandry stuff, but some of those guys are into polygamy, you know multiple wives, and taking away the vote. And too many are Christians.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

I agree with equality in all forms, it seems a lot of names for organisations are misnomers these days. 

its tragic what has happened to those women and to women that have suffered abuse from men using these services. maybe they should work towards trying to regulate it better, rather than outright banning it?

i'm sure there are plenty of happy stories of couples getting together as a result of the service.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

renegade disaster said:


> I agree with equality in all forms, it seems a lot of names for organisations are misnomers these days.
> 
> its tragic what has happened to those women and to women that have suffered abuse from men using these services. maybe they should work towards trying to regulate it better, rather than outright banning it?
> 
> i'm sure there are plenty of happy stories of couples getting together as a result of the service.


There may be good stories. I think the real issue at hand is that in places like the USA, where women tend to be very closed minded and strive to be "normal", some men are too eccentric, and have an absolute need not just physically for a foreign woman, but for a foreign woman's mind, which is alien to the USA. If I had to date a normal American woman, it would not on any level work out. So there is some need for this, and total banning of anything generally results in mafia taking over that thing, like bootleg liquor and marijuana. Once there is prohibition, the mafia takes over, and then there are really no regulations.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

mfd said:


> I think a lot of those women would wind up being abused or otherwise treated poorly, unfortunately. The guy would be able to use the threat of sending her back as a way to control her, or to keep her quiet.
> 
> It also seems a little too close to prostitution for my taste, mainly for the woman. Rather than the payoff being a monetary one, she would be getting citizenship. It reminds me of a movie called Crossing Over, in which an immigration agent offers to speed up the green card process for a woman if she'll be with him.


The law states that the woman has to remain married for a number of years in order to keep her citizenship. I believe its ten years. However, if there is domestic violence then she is allowed to leave him earlier than the ten years and keep her citizenship.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

michijo said:


> In September 2003, 26-year-old Ukrainian engineer and mail-order bride Alla Barney bled to death on the floor of her car after her American husband Lester Barney, 58, slashed her throat in front of the couple's four-year-old son Daniel. Lester fled with Daniel from the scene in the parking lot of the boy's day-care center; after an Amber Alert was triggered, he turned Daniel over to a friend and was taken into custody by police. Alla had been granted a restraining order against Lester a few months before, and had been given temporary custody of Daniel.[52][53]
> 
> Anastasia King, a young woman from Kyrgyzstan, was found strangled and buried in a shallow grave in Washington State in December 2000. At age 18 Anastasia received an email from a 38-year-old Seattle man, Indle King, from a mail-order-bride website. He flew to her country, and they were married soon after. Two years later, after considerable strife, Indle wanted another bride. He was allegedly unwilling to pay for a divorce, so he ordered a tenant in their Washington home to kill Anastasia. Weighing nearly 300 pounds, her husband pinned Anastasia down while the tenant strangled her with a necktie. Both were convicted of murder. King's previous wife (whom he had also met through an IMB) had a domestic violence protection order issued against him, and left him because he was abusive.[54][55]
> 
> Nina Reiser was a Russian-born and -trained obstetrician and gynaecologist. She was murdered by her husband Hans Reiser, a businessman and computer programmer whom she met after placing an ad in a mail-order bride catalog.[56] She had a restraining order against him during their divorce proceedings. Nina was reported missing on September 5, 2006. That month Hans was detained by Oakland police due to suspicions surrounding the disappearance of his wife, and was later arrested for suspected murder. On April 28, 2008 Hans Reiser was found guilty of first-degree murder, and was sentenced to 15 years to life in prison. On July 7, 2008 Hans led Oakland police to his wife's remains with an agreement to be charged with second-degree murder instead.[57]


These incidents happen to women that were born in the US too too.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

nubly said:


> The law states that the woman has to remain married for a number of years in order to keep her citizenship. I believe its ten years. However, if there is domestic violence then she is allowed to leave him earlier than the ten years and keep her citizenship.


I'm not sure about that. When I was about to marry the Moroccan woman, it was only a few years, not ten! It may have only been 2 years, that they told me.

I know that Chinese woman I met said she got out of marriage at 5 years after being married to someone older. Though her husband did beat her up!


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

nubly said:


> The law states that the woman has to remain married for a number of years in order to keep her citizenship. I believe its ten years. However, if there is domestic violence then she is allowed to leave him earlier than the ten years and keep her citizenship.


First you get conditional permanent residency and then after 2 years of marriage you apply for permanent permanent residency. Once you have that you can get divorced whenever and stay forever in the US. Only later can you get citizenship.

I found this:



> You May Qualify for Naturalization if:
> You have been a permanent resident for at least 5 years and meet all other eligibility requirements, please visit our Path to Citizenship page for more information.
> 
> You have been a permanent resident for 3 years or more and meet all eligibility requirements to file as a spouse of a U.S. citizen, please visit our Naturalization for Spouses of U.S. Citizens page for more information.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

The type of guys who do this are the problem...well not all of them, but the ones the media picks to portray typically are.

The good thing about this is that you know what type of relationship you are going to have right from the beginning. The 'dating' process seems very short and you get to the stable long-term relationship phase much quicker than with any girl here.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

Classified said:


> The type of guys who do this are the problem...well not all of them, but the ones the media picks to portray typically are.
> 
> The good thing about this is that you know what type of relationship you are going to have right from the beginning. The 'dating' process seems very short and you get to the stable long-term relationship phase much quicker than with any girl here.


I personally think it is unseemly to import a woman via monetary means without ever spending time in her native land or learning her native language.

Like this guy I know of who bought a Chinese woman from Guangdong. He never lived there nor learned anything about it. He just bought a woman from there. In fact, if you study Guangdong, you will learn the most amazing facts. And if you look at pictures of the entire region, google maps for instance, it's literally mind blowing. I would go there just to go there, not for a woman! I think just buying a woman from there is so stupid.

No wonder he beat her up and they got a divorce. He wasnt part of her world. If you attempt to maintain your own cultural dominance, you will get frustrated. I think that is really why they dont get along with mail order brides: Their own culture essentially will out.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

^ such a strange thing, I mean I could understand if he wanted to go there but had no money for it or had a problem similar to how we are socially anxious. for me though learning about another's culture is part of the appeal of knowing someone from abroad.


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## BrookeHannigan (Mar 29, 2012)

All those guys always want young women(35 and under ot atleast no women in their 40s)
Never one of their own age, and id rather be alone forever than knowing someone is with me just for my money or citizenship :teeth
And sorry but those western men whining about western women are sooo lame
They whine about women becoming more masculine and not feminine
But when i come along even on here and say im a young woman who wants to stay at home and be submissive to my man,i like to look pretty for him i cook for him everyday clean and if we have children ill stay at home to take care of them,
All of the sudden im lazy and should get a real job and stop livingin the 1950s
Please make up your mind:roll


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I can't even believe this **** is popular.


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## mfd (May 5, 2013)

michijo said:


> *Like this guy I know of who bought a Chinese woman from Guangdong. He never lived there nor learned anything about it. He just bought a woman from there. *In fact, if you study Guangdong, you will learn the most amazing facts. And if you look at pictures of the entire region, google maps for instance, it's literally mind blowing. I would go there just to go there, not for a woman! I think just buying a woman from there is so stupid.
> 
> *No wonder he beat her up and they got a divorce. He wasnt part of her world. If you attempt to maintain your own cultural dominance, you will get frustrated.* I think that is really why they dont get along with mail order brides: Their own culture essentially will out.


While I don't know the guy so it's a little presumptuous of me to say, I'm not sure I'd agree that it was a lack of knowledge about her culture... It seems more indicative of the way he was viewing women.

He didn't want to learn about her. He didn't want to know where she was from. He didn't want to know how she lived.

More than a disinterest in her culture, that's a disinterest in her as a human being. He simply bought her because he wanted her. He bought a person for himself, to fill a role that he wanted filled. He couldn't have had respect for her if he'd expect her to do that, so it's not surprising he'd wind up being abusive towards her. He'd have never seen her as his equal.

That's the main reason I don't agree with mail order spouses. They are not two people coming together as equals or out of mutual attraction. They are one person choosing a spouse from a list like some prize heifer, and then expecting that spouse to fill the role as defined by the person doing the choosing.

I'd go so far as to call it a form of slavery. Not all slavery was people being captured and sold. There were many forms of slavery, and in one type the person would sell themselves into it for a set period of time. That's what a mail order spouse is doing.


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## Dat Gyul (Jul 6, 2012)

Is there a mail order husband as well or just wives?

This reminds me of this tumblr blog I was reading about Asian girls and Creepy White Guys. This older White guy would go to Asian countries to find a Asian wife of course they were always younger than him and he couldn't speak their language so he got a translator. He would bring them back to America to see if they fit but it never works out so he goes fishing for another one. 

Some of the stories of mail order brides seem like all the girls want is a green card and all the guys want is a young foreign wife. It just doesn't seem like there is any connection or affection between the two people. I don't understand those kinds of relationships.


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## mcgilicutty (Apr 9, 2012)

typemismatch said:


> What would the returns policy be? If I break the seal am I still able to return her? :um


Good one! :lol:


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

renegade disaster said:


> ^ such a strange thing, I mean I could understand if he wanted to go there but had no money for it or had a problem similar to how we are socially anxious. for me though learning about another's culture is part of the appeal of knowing someone from abroad.


Yes, unfortunately there are people called anti-misandrists. I sort of had an interest in them at first, but they are really kind of just old-fashioned people for the most part, and there is a movement with them buying women from abroad. In some cases, they are pure conservative Americans who dont want women to vote and believe they shouldnt work. Christians for the most part. Christians prey on these mail order women. The Chinese woman I talked to said Christians often tried to get her to become a Christian and asked if I was a Christian. I told her Christians are no good and that they only want to seem good. I may have been a bit too radical for this chinese woman.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

Dat Gyul said:


> Is there a mail order husband as well or just wives?


I just found this one:

http://www.amifobornot.com/Jokes/Mail-Order-Husband-Catalog.html

I would definitely sell myself to women abroad. I cant imagine who would buy an American man though.


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## Dat Gyul (Jul 6, 2012)

michijo said:


> I just found this one:
> 
> http://www.amifobornot.com/Jokes/Mail-Order-Husband-Catalog.html
> 
> I would definitely sell myself to women abroad. I cant imagine who would buy an American man though.


Well I'll be damned... I understand mail order wives but hmm, mail order husbands. I guess if I was really depressed and awkward I would think about something like this.


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't think the kind of people you meet like that are the kind of people I would want to be a long term relationship with. Plus I don't think it's right that the women are just oggled like cattle and the men just pick out the prettiest one. It's degrading.


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## michijo (Nov 12, 2011)

Dat Gyul said:


> Well I'll be damned... I understand mail order wives but hmm, mail order husbands. I guess if I was really depressed and awkward I would think about something like this.


Doesn't the Asian male excite you, the idea of possessing a young Asian man as your personal spousal toy? If you get sick of him, divorce and leave him with the kids and buy a new one from a different nation. Try all the flavors.Teach them feminism. Since you own them, your powers are unlimited. Force them to do the dishes and withhold sex from them. You can become a total dominatrix.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

michijo said:


> Doesn't the Asian male excite you, the idea of possessing a young Asian man as your personal spousal toy? If you get sick of him, divorce and leave him with the kids and buy a new one from a different nation. Try all the flavors.Teach them feminism. Since you own them, your powers are unlimited. Force them to do the dishes and withhold sex from them. You can become a total dominatrix.


Best! Sales Pitch!! Ever!!!


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## Dat Gyul (Jul 6, 2012)

michijo said:


> Doesn't the Asian male excite you, the idea of possessing a young Asian man as your personal spousal toy? If you get sick of him, divorce and leave him with the kids and buy a new one from a different nation. Try all the flavors.Teach them feminism. Since you own them, your powers are unlimited. Force them to do the dishes and withhold sex from them. You can become a total dominatrix.


Sold me on the dominatrix bit.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

lol


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## BillDauterive (Oct 24, 2012)

Maybe not a mail-order bride, but pretty close, an arranged marriage with someone from my home country. The "bait" I'd have to lure her is a green card. Its far from my preferred choice. But its the only way I can ever get a girl anyways, oh who the hell am I kidding? :blank

Its either that or be forever alone.


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