# How old were you when you lost your virginity?



## dax

For those of us who have, how old were you?

I'll start: 20


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## Scrub-Zero

18


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## mjatte

Not yet. I'm (21)


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## nothing to fear

still waiting.


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## Joelle

Not yet. Nineteen and don't plan on losing it anytime soon. I used to be anxious that I hadn't gotten nearly as far in the dating world or with men as my friends had. As just about anyone my age had. I used to wonder what the **** was wrong with me. But after a rather creepy experience with a guy, I'm glad to wait for someone I really am interested in and really think has long-term potential, and as a shy and introverted individual, I really don't anticipate meeting that person anytime soon. Which is all right, because I do well alone. It's relationships and social interactions that are complicated.


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## Perfectionist

I think we had a topic exactly like this a while back, if memory serves me right.

Hilariously, I can't remember my age. Either 17 or 18. I think. Sounds about right.


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## dax

Perfectionist said:


> I think we had a topic exactly like this a while back, if memory serves me right.
> 
> Hilariously, I can't remember my age. Either 17 or 18. I think. Sounds about right.


I think there was one about people who haven't lost their virginity yet but I was curious about when people who have lost it did so.


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## pita

18


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## Draztek

18


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## Futures

Doubt it will ever happen for me.


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## Roger-Kun

Futures said:


> Doubt it will ever happen for me.


Same here :rain


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## benzogirl

i was 13


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## cynic

I lost my virginity to a call-girl at 21. If I could take it back, I would. Cuz now I'm engaged and my girl is a virgin, and I told her I was too.


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## Neptunus

19. He lost his virginity too.


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## Hot Chocolate

Not yet and agree to the posters above.

Don't think it will happen anytime soon


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## brealair

22


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## rossifranklin

cynic said:


> I lost my virginity to a call-girl at 21. If I could take it back, I would. Cuz now I'm engaged and my girl is a virgin, and I told her I was too.


Sounds like an upstanding relationship.


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## person86

21.

I suck!


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## boxofcheapwine

Edited


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## DeeperUnderstanding

Hasn't happened yet.


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## sanspants08

18


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## CopadoMexicano

21 and with an escort


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## Amocholes

Keep it clean or the thread will be locked.


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## Solitario

cynic said:


> I lost my virginity to a call-girl at 21. If I could take it back, I would. Cuz now I'm engaged and my girl is a virgin, and I told her I was too.


This is bad.


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## XxArmyofOnexX

haven't (18...)


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## dax

Phoebus said:


> 19. He lost his virginity too.


Thats cool. I wish that's how it happened with me.


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## MeganC

Let's put it this way: Very young, _very_ stupid, and the less said about it, the better:roll


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## Mr Deuce

I was 18. It was exactly 15 years ago, December 1993.


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## Eraserhead

20. I have mixed feelings about the experience. It was awkward and not especially pleasurable (won't go into details, naturally). I guess I learned from it, though.

The whole "wait for someone special" cliche made sense afterward. :lol


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## Stanley

15


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## Jinnix

I'm 18 now, I can't see myself losing it anytime in the near future. I almost lost it when I was 16, we were drunk. I regret not doing it at the time.


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## mountain5

I guess I could say 22 depending on your point of view, but anything more than that is TMI.


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## Jackie

um...i guess im still a virgin and always will be if we are going by text book definition.but in my heart i lost it when i was 19


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## Sierra83

I was 16.


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## ANCIENT

16. With my first girlfriend.


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## heyubigrockstar

18


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## TorLin

i was 17


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## jodymaz

17


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## asdf123

hey what happened to my post


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## fauxhawk

20


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## flapjacker

16. It was with a person I really loved, and it was great.


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## Akane

I think 19. Possibly just before I turned 19.


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## nubly

i was 25. am i the oldest?


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## Akane

Unless you count the virgins lol


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## AskJeeves

16...after it was over i thought "what the...is that IT???"


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## No Limit

nubly said:


> i was 25. am i the oldest?


I'm probably the oldest. Finally lost it earlier this year. But lost it to someone I didn't particularly care for, in hindsight. Short, awful relationship. Anyway, I wished I kept it for someone better. Oh well.


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## Rasputin_1

15.... seems so young now.


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## millenniumman75

Akane said:


> Unless you count the virgins lol


:hide


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## millenniumman75

asdf123 said:


> hey what happened to my post


We read it.


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## mind_games

I think I'll join millenniumman75. Don't worry bro, I brought my own chair  :

:hide :hide


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## asdf123

Well.. it was a joke. You know.. the words that don't mean anything... Not meant to offend anyone, but take that **** lightly. Anyways, 17.


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## nothing to fear

i thought it was funny, and you were obv joking.


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## GJ1993

i was 14 :S, not that great tbh, y do people want it soo bad


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## Trillian

19. I just wanted to get it over with. I wish I had waited until I met someone I really cared about.


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## ThisGuyRightHere

14 almost 15.


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## Cypress

Still waiting for that special girl...or...a girl wanting to do it...lol


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## Vaapukka

Been ready for it since I was 11, but I have had rather severe SA since childhood.

I'm 32 now and haven't even reached first base.


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## butyouaredamaged

*Nubly*, I was also 25. I have no regrets about waiting, either; he's my current boyfriend, and the experience was comfortable and _fun_, with a lot of communication and laughter. The relationship since has been wonderful.

I know sometimes it feels like you should just "lose it," but it really is so worth it if you wait until you find someone with whom the experience will be meaningful.


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## ravenwulf

24 and still waiting, never kissed either.


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## Black_Widow

Trillian said:


> 19. I just wanted to get it over with. I wish I had waited until I met someone I really cared about.


This pretty much describes me too, only I was 17. Much as at the time I thought I was in love with my ex, it turned out not long after he wasn't the right one for me. And I went through with it at the time mostly just to please him, and also because I felt 17 was a little old to be a virgin at that stage of my life. Looking back though, I really wish I'd waited.


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## slyfox

Almost 23 and I still haven't lost it. Haven't kissed or been on a date either. I have a ways to go


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## JFmtl

21 and still scoreless. I'm very shy with girls and terrified with the idea of making any move. And to add to that, im pretty small (5'6'') and i'm not very good looking, so sometimes I think that i'm the prototype of what girls don't like :sigh


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## Toad Licker

18


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## moochie26

14


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## mooncake

19


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## asdf

to be determined


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## MidnightBlu

19.


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## SloopjohnB

still a virgin (23 right now). The bright side is that I was in a relationship this year that showed that I am able to wait.

Before it was desperation and a challenge but now I am more laid back about it.


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## brd1988

I was 19


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## lindsey

i was fifteen. i only did it because i felt like i had to. i really wish i had waited.


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## DepecheEyes

dax said:


> For those of us who have, how old were you?
> 
> I'll start: 20


I was around 11 or 12 when I lost it. That is, if you count masturbation as a sex act. :banana

But seriously, I haven't lost it yet.


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## hyacinth_dragon

Heh. I'm not telling my status but I think its better to wait for the right person.


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## Sukipei

Not yet. But that isn't a priority in my life. I prefer to find some that I like and she feel the same way.


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## aloss4words

depends how you define virginity unfortunately. I guess it would be inappropriate for me to go into details. I'm somewhat of a virgin and I'm already 21.


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## Syrena

15 and I was glad to get rid of it.


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## nothing to fear

i still have my v-card tucked firmly in my pocket.


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## Thomas Paine

14, I think. lol. And it was to a married woman who's husband was in jail at the time. He didn't mind though. And yeah, I'm kinda proud of it, but I cheated by drinking a ****load of vodka first.


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## Aurora

14 or 15..


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## AJFA88

nothing to fear said:


> i still have my v-card tucked firmly in my pocket.


I dont mean to be rude, but it made me laugh the way you wrote it :lol:


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## STKinTHEmud

Sweet statutory! A lot of you have lost your virginity at a very young age!


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## LostPancake

23.9 

i suppose i could calculate more decimal points...


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## Iced Soul

30 or 40


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## strawberryjulius

Not any time soon seeing as I'm terrified.


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## pokeherpro

15.


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## AussiePea

22 and still not there, honestly in no hurry.


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## gaz

I find it depressing that most of you have actually had the privilege of the deed and at such young ages. I feel even more of a freak for still having my cherry at 28.


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## caflme

I am so happy that so many of you still have the opportunity to have an amazing first time with someone you love and that really cares about you. - I was 17 - I too would have waited. I wish all of you that are so eager to 'just lose it' can try to understand and listen to those of us who say we wish we would have waited - who regret doing it 'just cause', 'to feel grown up', or 'to feel normal'. My ex boyfriend was 47 and still a virgin... it was a beautiful thing to me... it is one of the many things I saw in him that was/is beautiful... he still is. I'm glad that he still has that gift to give to someone the day he marries her and that he didn't waste it on a relationship that didn't last and wasnt' right for him.


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## Pocketfox

Thomas Paine said:


> 14, I think. lol. And it was to a married woman who's husband was in jail at the time. He didn't mind though. And yeah, I'm kinda proud of it, but I cheated by drinking a ****load of vodka first.


i see nothing unusual about this situation


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## Roberto

Virginity is a state of mind man. I'd have to participate in some extreme levels of debauchery to feel like I lost mine. More specifically, I'd have to be gang raped multiple times by a group of slimy ravenous lizard people and fat hell's angel members and stuff. Until that happens i am as pure as the white snow.


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## banjerbanjo

I was 20. It was a pretty embarrassing and drunken experience. It makes me laugh when I think about it.


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## nothing to fear

Auron said:


> I dont mean to be rude, but it made me laugh the way you wrote it :lol:


dammit nick, my virginity is not a laughing matter


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## nothing to fear

i'm just kidding i don't care that much


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## VIncymon

STKinTHEmud said:


> Sweet statutory! A lot of you have lost your virginity at a very young age!


speak for yourself, i'm in the waiting line.


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## Chris1987

18 although my SA wasnt half as bad then


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## IcedOver

33 and still waiting; probably will never do it.


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## Thomas Paine

Pocketfox said:


> i see nothing unusual about this situation


Yup... just your standard night of statutory rape, adultery, drunkenness, and de-virginization. :teeth


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## DeeperUnderstanding

I will hopefully be 27 years old.


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## rcapo89

I'm 20 years old and have never had sex. I can't envision myself ever losing my virginity anytime soon. :rain


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## Lithium4

14


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## sprout

20, and with no regrets.


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## sacred

19. i was starting to get worried. if the girl i was with hadnt put so much effort into getting to know me id probably still be one today...maybe.


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## Aurora

gaz said:


> I find it depressing that most of you have actually had the privilege of the deed and at such young ages. I feel even more of a freak for still having my cherry at 28.


Privilege? I think not.


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## ecotec83

When I was 18 to the person I would love for 8 years after that and still love to this day even though he doesn't feel the same way about me anymore.


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## andy1984

21...


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## Jurexic5

I think I've actually found my virginity again... Yup, and I can't say I'm relieved.


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## Aurora

I think its possible to 'feel' like a virgin again after a long draught, been there. But being pregnant and 'feeling' like a virgin doesnt add up. :sus


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## Kyaa

gaz said:


> I find it depressing that most of you have actually had the privilege of the deed and at such young ages. I feel even more of a freak for still having my cherry at 28.


You shouldn't feel bad and you're certainly not a freak. People put too much emphasis on sex. Sex isn't everything. Just because you haven't had sex, doesn't mean you're less of a man or "freakish." Try not to think about it so much, or it's going to drive you crazy. Learn to love yourself (whichever way you take this is fine), and Focus other, more positive, things. Before you know it, you'll see it's not a big deal.








Jurexic5 said:


> I think I've actually found my virginity again... Yup, and I can't say I'm relieved.


How does one fine their virginity again? Is it like becoming a born again Christian?



Aurora said:


> But being pregnant and 'feeling' like a virgin doesnt add up. :sus


Yes, I know what you mean.


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## Jurexic5

Kyaa said:


> How does one fine their virginity again? Is it like becoming a born again Christian?


I guess.. It kind of has the "I once was lost, but now I'm found" similarity.. I think. Wait, isn't that some lyrics to a song? Hopefully it's a religious song...

Also, when I said that I wasn't relieved about finding it, I failed to mention that I'm pretty apathetic about it all.. Just making funsies!


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## Madison_Rose

Aurora said:


> I think its possible to 'feel' like a virgin again after a long draught, been there.


:yes You start wondering "will I just heal up, and buy a cat?"

I lost mine at 14. We were in love. Relationship lasted til I was 21. I wish we hadn't been drunk though.


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## gaz

Kyaa said:


> You shouldn't feel bad and you're certainly not a freak. People put too much emphasis on sex. Sex isn't everything. Just because you haven't had sex, doesn't mean you're less of a man or "freakish." Try not to think about it so much, or it's going to drive you crazy. Learn to love yourself (whichever way you take this is fine), and Focus other, more positive, things. Before you know it, you'll see it's not a big deal.
> 
> But that's how people see it and that's how i feel. It's hard to forget about it when everywhere you look sex is advertised, and is talked about. I even read an article once that claimed that sex is good for the wellbeing and that people who regularily have sex live longer and have more fulfilling lives....So what they are implying is that people who abstain (in my case without choice) are sad losers basically.
> 
> I may as well be a monk and go and live in a monastery.......Oh wait! There's probably monks who are not virgins!


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## Traci

Jackie said:


> um...i guess im still a virgin and always will be if we are going by text book definition.but in my heart i lost it when i was 19


Yar, same. I was 19 and I wish I waited for someone more special though. :/ I was disappointed.


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## yellowpaper

18


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## Witan

I can't imagine my life ever putting me in a situation where I would lose my virginity.

Seeing fellow SASers saying how they lost their v-card in their teens doesn't help.


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## nowen378

I'm 19 and still a virgin.


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## kitterbug

21


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## anomalous

Witan said:


> Seeing fellow SASers saying how they lost their v-card in their teens doesn't help.


You ain't kidding. It's so over for me, save for a pity **** or otherwise exceptionally embarrassing and awkward encounter that I wouldn't even be able to enjoy.


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## Peter Attis

Witan said:


> I can't imagine my life ever putting me in a situation where I would lose my virginity.
> 
> Seeing fellow SASers saying how they lost their v-card in their teens doesn't help.


:ditto


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## mserychic

20ish. it was so memorable that i can't even remember my exact age. what a drunken debacle that was.


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## monkeymagic86

i was 19.


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## TaniaN

Holy moly, I expected the ages to be a little higher LOL

Yeah so not sharing when I lost mine now :um:b I must say though, looking back it happened when it should've for me. Not by anyone else's standards. I couldn't have handled it at a younger age and am glad it didn't happen then. Though my teenage self would reply to that "speak for yourself freak!"


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## gaz

Peter Attis said:


> :ditto


I was expecting there to be more virgins here. Seems that everyone doesn't have the same level of anxiety.


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## Thomas Paine

gaz said:


> I was expecting there to be more virgins here. Seems that everyone doesn't have the same level of anxiety.


Being alone with a girl doesn't really give me anxiety, but some other common social things that you might take for granted can be pretty scary for me.


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## Syrena

Thomas Paine said:


> Being alone with a girl doesn't really give me anxiety, but some other common social things that you might take for granted can be pretty scary for me.


I am kinda the same way (though with guys), I mean, once I get close to someone (face-to-face), they don't tend to make me overly anxious. That initial getting-comfortable-around period is tough though for me and even trying to meet someone, ick.


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## sublimit

I was 16, almost 17. I don't really think much of it, or think about it at all.


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## comfort

I'm still reading through this thread. I'm on about page 6 so far. Myself, I am 18 and have not lost my virginity. There are a few things I would like to say about the topic though. I think a lot of people who have had sex because they were in a hurry to lose their virginity have said that they regretted it. And they try to use this past experience to show those who have not had sex yet that it is no big deal. The problem with this though, is that for a lot of people, there are different things going on in their mind as well as in their body. The body, as most of us know, has a sexual desire of it's own. On top of that, we place all of our conceptual ideas about sex, including how important we think sex is, and what it means about us as a person when we have finally had sex. There are different stories that can be going on in different people. The way to know what types of stories are going on in your own mind is to be really honest with yourself. Sometimes people say that they don't really care about sex, but underneath that lie that they tell themselves is an authentic desire to have sex and express their sexuality. It's just that for the time being, it hurts so much for them to aknowledge the reality that they are not getting what they want. Before I digress any more, as I was saying about the reason that other people's advice to just wait or "No need to rush. You might regret it.", those sorts of advice come out of good intentions, but this sort of rational advice has to compete with the sexual desire of the body, as well as the different beliefs about sex that we have in our mind. Though admittedly, I have not had sex yet, I am not lying to myself about the matter. I know that I want to, and I have even admitted to my friends that I have not had sex. Admitted isn't even the right word. I just simply told them. No shame involved. And for some of you, there might be too much shame to admit this sort of thing. You might take that as a bad sign, but actually, that shame can be a useful tool for you, because if you know that you are feeling shame, then you know that you have some sorts of beliefs about sex as it is related to your self worth. I hope that helps someone, even if just a little bit.


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## Thomas Paine

I think maybe the main reason some people warn about it is because it didn't really feel great the very first time, or maybe they feel like they were pressured into it, or maybe the person broke up with them afterward. There's always the risk of babies and STD's though. Also, it's kind of the PC thing to say.

Personally, I don't regret my first time even though it didn't actually feel good and it was with someone I had no feelings for and who had no feelings back for me. It was honestly a learning experience, and she was up front and nice about showing me how to do it. She gave me some compliments that boosted my confidence and it gave me a chance to learn and know what I was doing when it came to another girl that I actually had feelings for.

I also think maybe some people put way too much importance on their first time being this wonderful, life altering experience where they suddenly understand the true meaning of love, etc..., and maybe that's what actually makes it so scary that they don't really put much effort into trying. And anyway, after you do it enough times you realize that sex has nothing to do with love in the first place, so why save the first, awkward time for someone you love?


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## comfort

Sex has nothing to do with love? I think that really depends on the people involved.


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## Thomas Paine

comfort said:


> Sex has nothing to do with love? I think that really depends on the people involved.


It has something to do with being _in_ love, but is completely unrelated to loving someone.


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## Stilla

Thomas Paine said:


> I also think maybe some people put way too much importance on their first time being this wonderful, life altering experience where they suddenly understand the true meaning of love, etc..., and maybe that's what actually makes it so scary that they don't really put much effort into trying. And anyway, after you do it enough times you realize that sex has nothing to do with love in the first place, so why save the first, awkward time for someone you love?


This makes me sad, it's feels like someone has told me santa isn't real.

I'm a virgin but I don't know at this time I feel quite comfortable being one.


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## mserychic

life rarely mimics hollywood romance flicks. candles and rose petals and harps playing in the background! even under perfect conditions, whatever those may be, it can be awkward at first just like any new experience can be. there is something to be said about waiting until it's someone you like and it feels right though.. instead of say drinking so much whiskey that hopping into bed with yr friend's ex boyfriend seems like an ok idea despite being gay and all. it's something yr always going to remember so it'd be nice if it was a good memory instead of a wtf was i thinking memory.


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## ivankaramazov

17. I was pretty messed up and don't remember much. Later that night from the look of my shirt, I wasn't sure if I had gotten laid or murdered somebody.


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## meghan

ivankaramazov said:


> 17. I was pretty messed up and don't remember much. Later that night from the look of my shirt, I wasn't sure if I had gotten laid or murdered somebody.


hahahaha gross

15


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## AJFA88

Im very suprised alot of people here lost their virginity in their teens. The fact that i often read threads of people complaining about virginity and then reading this...is quite shocking. :lol


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## glarmph

16. I don't even remember it.


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## Medicine Wheel

Almost 22 and still a virgin


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## ktbare

Nearly 17 and to the only person I've ever really been with.
And losing your virginity early has no bearing on how severe your anxiety is, I have extreme social anxiety and have had since as young as I can remember.Things just happen in life, life just lead me to where I lost it early doesn't mean I wasn't anxious.


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## MidnightBlu

Traci said:


> Yar, same. I was 19 and I wish I waited for someone more special though. :/ I was disappointed.


I wish I did it with someone better too. I don't regret losing it at 19 and doing it in general, but I wish I did it with someone better. I'm with a wonderful man right now and our making love life is as amazing as ever so that makes me really happy.


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## Emptyheart

Still waiting for that special guy I guess lol...he needs to exist already.


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## mooncake

ktbare said:


> And losing your virginity early has no bearing on how severe your anxiety is, I have extreme social anxiety and have had since as young as I can remember.Things just happen in life, life just lead me to where I lost it early doesn't mean I wasn't anxious.


I completely agree. Despite it improving a little over the past 2 years, I would consider myself to still have severe anxiety and yet I'm in a relationship and no longer a virgin. It was more or less out of pure luck that this one person stumbled into my life and led to this situation coming about, and is not in any way a reflection of how severe or mild my social anxiety may be. It's actually quite suprising how many other people with social anxiety I've come across who have a partner but are completely lacking in the friendship department, like myself.

As someone who lost their virginity to someone they're still with and love and trust completely, the sex has gotten better over time and it's nice that it's there, but to be completely honest it's still not something that matches up to the expectations that seem to be held by some people (i.e that it will be some earth-shattering experience that will allow you to connect to the other person like never before or suchlike). Of course, that's just my own personal experience and I never had any particularly strong expectations about sex in the first place, and obviously if sex _is_ like that for anyone then congratulations to you! But I think that for a lot of people, after having sex you may realise that it wasn't really wasn't worth making a big deal about. I realise that can perhaps come across as being quite patronising or seemingly irrelevant for a virgin to hear, but it's the way I honestly feel. And I think it's quite relevant for me to stress that I don't in any way regret having sex when I did, it just wasn't as amazing as the films or some people would have you believe. I'm still the same anxiety-riddled person I was before losing my virginity and in an odd way, being a person of such low self-esteem on occasion makes me feel even worse about myself after having sex, even with it being with someone I love and who loves me back. Why exactly that should be the case, I'm still not sure.


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## secretlyshecries

I haven't lost mine. What I think is sad about society is the pressure it puts on people to lose it. It'll happen, what's the rush? And I don't think I'm being naive in saying I'd like to wait for the right person-- what's wrong with that? I'm not into the whole 'wait til you're married!' thing though, but who really cares what other people do? For me, it's not that I've held back, it just hasn't happened. I have no disillusions about it either. I know it's just sex and that in the end it isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be (I don't mean that it's bad, lol I just mean people place too much importance on you doing it early and all that).


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## Pocketfox

I'm in with secretlyshecries. I'm not interested in having sex with some random person just for the hell of it. I'd like it if someone I was with was a virgin, so hopefully the woman I end up with will feel the same.


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## Saqq

as soon as someone lets me, i'll let you guys know!


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## Emerald3

I still haven't and I'm 22...


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## Exploding Walrus Backflip

22 and nothing. Of course I don't tell people this in real life. That's the kind of thing people gossip and make fun of you about.


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## Emptyheart

Still a virgin.
I think fear is stopping me...


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## Emerald3

Exploding Walrus Backflip said:


> 22 and nothing. Of course I don't tell people this in real life. That's the kind of thing people gossip and make fun of you about.


I agree with that, but unfortunately my friends do know and sometimes 'gently' tease me about it.. :S


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## retropat

Still a virgin. Part of me wants to wait for the right person and part of me just wants to get it over with.


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## EagerMinnow84

secretlyshecries said:


> I haven't lost mine. What I think is sad about society is the pressure it puts on people to lose it. It'll happen, what's the rush? And I don't think I'm being naive in saying I'd like to wait for the right person-- what's wrong with that? I'm not into the whole 'wait til you're married!' thing though, but who really cares what other people do? For me, it's not that I've held back, it just hasn't happened. I have no disillusions about it either. I know it's just sex and that in the end it isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be (I don't mean that it's bad, lol I just mean people place too much importance on you doing it early and all that).


Thank you!

I am not a "wait until marriage" type person either. I don't understand societies excessive pressure on sex.


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## rincewind

I'm still a virgin, and am likely to remain that way indefinitely. It doesn't really bother me anymore, but it would be nice if losing your virginity wasn't made out to be so important by most people. It ends up just being one more thing to be anxious about, and I'm sure most of us here have no shortage of those already.


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## eraseme

18


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## bk

35


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## SAgirl

19. I was pretty happy about how it went, too. I was afraid, but he was reassuring. He bought candles pear, lavendar and vanilla. He also bought me linguerie as a gift.


----------



## christ~in~me

Put it this way...
I was too old for toys but too young for boys


----------



## zomgz

nada.

I'm waiting for...

> the perfect moment.

i would never have sex just for the whole "i've had sex thing" it's lameeee.
i have to truly truly love this person, always & foreverrr, unconditionally. & i love my gf like that =] but we are waiting =)

we are in a long distance relationship if your wondering haha. =D

(i don't believe in the whole waiting to have sex until you get married thing either, just be smart about it lol)


----------



## Nani

13. Much too young.


----------



## tutliputli

15. It was meaningless but I was glad I'd gotten it out of the way.


----------



## addictedtochaos

26


----------



## TRENNER

Age 18-the first time--with a hooker

Age 30-the second time--with a serious girlfriend


----------



## Phibes

16


----------



## DSPFrat

21, there's a pretty funny story with it to.


----------



## Post_Punk_Proclivity

DSPFrat said:


> 21, there's a pretty funny story with it to.


This, except I was 17. Kinda bad experience. :lol If I could take it back I would.


----------



## Crunchie

Futures said:


> Doubt it will ever happen for me.


waiting


----------



## Havalina

I think I was 16.....hmm....bad memory (not meaning bad experience, just poor long term retention)......however old you are in grade 10.


----------



## N3XT2NON3

15. they always say u remember ur first. i wish i didnt


----------



## cynic

I lost my virginity to a call-girl in Canada when I was 22. I hated myself for it afterwards and until now, 5 years later, I wish I would have saved myself for my fiance who I'm about to marry.


----------



## eekmd

23....


----------



## Witan

eekmd said:


> 23....


Maybe there is hope for me yet....


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

Still waiting...


----------



## demian1

34. Miracles do happen. The way things are going, it's going to take another thirty-****ing-four for round 2...so guys in your twenties, you're still waaaaaay too young to really worry about it.


----------



## InThe519

21


----------



## December Hollow13

I was about 15 or 16. I should've waited for something WAY better to come along. It's taken me awhile, but I've learned NEVER EVER to settle..especially when it comes to an intimate partner.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

I feel as though I am the only teenage virgin alive. I'm 18 years old, and I have not even kissed a guy. I feel like a freak. I wish it would just happen, but it takes so much work and I'm such an introverted person. I feel like an even bigger loser talking to fellow SASers who claim to have REALLY bad social anxiety who have already lost theirs YEARS before me.

At any rate, I've made a promise to myself; If I do not lose my virginity within this year, I will hire a gigolo (male prostitute) to do so, and I will go on for the rest of my life with drunken hook-ups and gigolos and when I hit thirty, I will have kids via artifical insemination. Seriously.


----------



## TRENNER

DitzyDreamer said:


> At any rate, I've made a promise to myself; If I do not lose my virginity within this year, I will hire a gigolo (male prostitute) to do so, and I will go on for the rest of my life with drunken hook-ups and gigolos.... Seriously.


I really do not recommend this for a woman. _With a female body_, you are better off waiting for a man _you feel close to_ and comfortable with--even if you have to wait several years longer. Having sex in the circumstances that you say will very likely be disastrous and you'll regret it. For a woman, being relaxed and comfortable is essential to enjoy the experience.

In addition, there are men like myself find it a _big turn-on_ if a woman is a virgin and we can be her first partner. I personally have a strong fantasy about being with a virgin. So, don't throw it away recklessly.

Sorry to interject this here, but what you said really got to me.


----------



## nothing to fear

DitzyDreamer said:


> I feel as though I am the only teenage virgin alive. I'm 18 years old, and I have not even kissed a guy. I feel like a freak. I wish it would just happen, but it takes so much work and I'm such an introverted person. I feel like an even bigger loser talking to fellow SASers who claim to have REALLY bad social anxiety who have already lost theirs YEARS before me.
> 
> At any rate, I've made a promise to myself; If I do not lose my virginity within this year, I will hire a gigolo (male prostitute) to do so, and I will go on for the rest of my life with drunken hook-ups and gigolos and when I hit thirty, I will have kids via artifical insemination. Seriously.


i had my first real kiss at age 18. before that the idea that anyone would want to kiss me was just completely shocking and i assumed i would never kiss anyone, i definitely felt like a freak and complete outsider because all my female friends and peers had already experienced that. i don't think you should worry much, 18 is still young, and yea that is said a lot but its true. i also know non-SAers who have had their first kiss past 18 and are still virgins.

and, i really hope you don't resort to seeing a prostitute for the sole reason of losing your virginity. :/ i don't think any good could come out of that. i'm still a 20-year-old virgin, and i think in the past i used to just want to get it over with out of sexual frustration and since i strongely believed that i'd never feel any sort of love i thought i'd just go for some meaningless sex the first chance i get, as i wouldn't feel worthy enough for something more and couldn't attain. losing one's virginity is sometimes regarded as some important landmark and triumph in maturing but i think doing that for the wrong reasons and in the wrong situation just reinforces that negativity you feel for yourself. even if it doesn't make it worse, it won't just make it go away, that is for sure.


----------



## Tony99

21 about 2 weeks before I turned 22.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

TRENNER said:


> I really do not recommend this for a woman. _With a female body_, you are better off waiting for a man _you feel close to_ and comfortable with--even if you have to wait several years longer. Having sex in the circumstances that you say will very likely be disastrous and you'll regret it. For a woman, being relaxed and comfortable is essential to enjoy the experience.


I don't get it. Having a female body doesn't make it any better or easier than if I were a man. I hear about men all the time losing their virginities to a prostitute, and everyone praises him and gives the guy a pat on the back. Why should it be any different for a woman?

What I would regret more is never having sex or waiting so long to the point where I can't have any children. I want to be able to look back at my college years fondly. I don't want to be an overaged virgin. I want to be happy, and I'll be alot happier losing it than not losing it. I don't think this would be disastorous. In fact, I would feel very empowered over that fact I got to chose when, where, and with whom I lost my virginity to. If I don't lose it now, I'm afraid that as time goes on, things are going to get worse.



> In addition, there are men like myself find it a _big turn-on_ if a woman is a virgin and we can be her first partner. I personally have a strong fantasy about being with a virgin. So, don't throw it away recklessly.


Most men out there are anti-virgin, though. It is a turn-off for some men to be with a virgin, and there are so many negative stereotypes about us. And I don't want to lose it to a guy who has a "virgin fetish" but to a guy who loves me and cares for me. But that is not realistic.



> Sorry to interject this here, but what you said really got to me.


Why should it? If I were a guy, would this offend you so?


----------



## DitzyDreamer

nothing to fear said:


> i had my first real kiss at age 18. before that the idea that anyone would want to kiss me was just completely shocking and i assumed i would never kiss anyone, i definitely felt like a freak and complete outsider because all my female friends and peers had already experienced that. i don't think you should worry much, 18 is still young, and yea that is said a lot but its true. i also know non-SAers who have had their first kiss past 18 and are still virgins.
> 
> and, i really hope you don't resort to seeing a prostitute for the sole reason of losing your virginity. :/ i don't think any good could come out of that. i'm still a 20-year-old virgin, and i think in the past i used to just want to get it over with out of sexual frustration and since i strongely believed that i'd never feel any sort of love i thought i'd just go for some meaningless sex the first chance i get, as i wouldn't feel worthy enough for something more and couldn't attain. losing one's virginity is sometimes regarded as some important landmark and triumph in maturing but i think doing that for the wrong reasons and in the wrong situation just reinforces that negativity you feel for yourself. even if it doesn't make it worse, it won't just make it go away, that is for sure.


Sadly, that is my only choice. No man will ever love me or want me unless he is completely drunk or being paid to have sex with me. From your avatar, you look decent. I am not.

And I'm so sick of everyone saying that 18 is so young when most people on here are losing their virginity before sixteen IN SPITE of having SA.

Virginity is a curse in the Western world. Having it is like having a scarlet letter branded on your chest. It sucks.


----------



## CoconutHolder

*16.

*


----------



## superhappyfunchica

i was 19, and the guy was a total fugly loser who had knocked-up his ex. it was horrible for me, i cried. i thought i must be a lesbian or something...i didn't enjoy sex for a long time...and still have issues


----------



## tlgibson97

I was 15. At that age I thought it would never happen. 

I liked it so much I married her (3 years later).


----------



## sabueed

how do all you guys end up losing your virginity, do you take the initiative and go up to kiss her and start the lovemaking or what


----------



## Peter Attis

DitzyDreamer said:


> I hear about men all the time losing their virginities to a prostitute, and everyone praises him and gives the guy a pat on the back. Why should it be any different for a woman?


What kind of people are you hanging around that actually CONGRATULATE that? :sus


----------



## Chrysalii

...wow this may be the thread that's depressed me the most.
I just turned 22 and haven't even had a relationship...not even close.
closest thing was probably sitting next to a girl in school (and that's only because the alphabetical seating worked out that way).
Not getting to first base...I've never been on the field.


----------



## TRENNER

DitzyDreamer said:


> Sadly, that is my only choice. No man will ever love me or want me unless he is completely drunk or being paid to have sex with me. From your avatar, you look decent. I am not.
> 
> .


There are plenty of physically unattractive men out there who aren't picky about looks. At least some of them are decent human beings as well. I personally know at least two happily married couples where _both the husband and wife fall in the bottom 5% _of physical attractiveness. What you need is some self-confidence and some patience.

As to men being mostly anti-virgin, check out some of the polls and message strands here to see otherwise. There are plenty of guys here who are significantly older than you and still virgins themselves. Also, a solid majority of men here would be happy to be involved with a female virgin.

To reply to a previous post of yours, because of different physiology, sex for women is often better or worse than it is for men. We can have benign, mediocre sex easier than you. Also, a woman's first time is often physically painful, while a man's first time won't be. 
In addition, as a female, you're the one who'd be left pregnant and heterosexual women, as the recipients of fluids in the process, have a greater chance of catching AIDS and other STDs than heterosexual men.

So, my advice remains for you to be patient and wait.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

TRENNER said:


> There are plenty of physically unattractive men out there who aren't picky about looks. At least some of them are decent human beings as well. I personally know at least two happily married couples where _both the husband and wife fall in the bottom 5% _of physical attractiveness. What you need is some self-confidence and some patience.


I would have to see a picture of that.



> As to men being mostly anti-virgin, check out some of the polls and message strands here to see otherwise. There are plenty of guys here who are significantly older than you and still virgins themselves. Also, a solid majority of men here would be happy to be involved with a female virgin.


Happy to be involve as in happy to devirginize her or happy to have a relationship (be it sexual or non-sexual) with her? There's a difference.

From my personal experience, I have found that most men go under two categories: Those who are obsessed with devirginizing women as a sport, and men who don't want to get involve with a virgin period because we are so "clingy" and "emotionally attached" that it is a major turn-off. Either way, I don't want to be involved with either because neither groups actually care about the woman or getting to know her.



> To reply to a previous post of yours, because of different physiology, sex for women is often better or worse than it is for men. We can have benign, mediocre sex easier than you. Also, a _woman's first time is often physically painful_, while a man's first time won't be. In addition, as a female, you're the one who'd be left pregnant and heterosexual women, as the recipients of fluids in the process, have a greater chance of catching AIDS and other STDs than heterosexual men.
> 
> So, my advice remains for you to be patient and wait.


All the more reason to get it over with.

Thanks for your advice, but in the end, you aren't in my position nor feel the pain I feel.

What you have to realize is that not everyone has someone out there for them and that there are some people who will never find love or intimacy, and the closest thing to it is sex with a prostitute. People who tell me and other unattractive women that there is someone out there for them and they should be patient just don't get it or are bull****ting.

So to all the ugly female virgins out there who think that there is someone out there, good luck. It is only a myth that everyone has someone made for them, and that saying is only said to make an ugly woman feel better about herself. Don't be afraid to explore your sexuality by seeking an experienced male prostitute who won't judge you and will teach you to be confident as an ugly woman WITH sexual desires (not all of use are asexual!)...even if you have to shell several hundred dollars. Afterall, men have been seeking female prostitutes for centuries...why can't we? So as long as it is safe and consensual, there should be no problems.


----------



## Hypnos

DitzyDreamer said:


> Happy to be involve as in happy to devirginize her or happy to have a relationship (be it sexual or non-sexual) with her? There's a difference.
> 
> From my personal experience, I have found that most men go under two categories: Those who are obsessed with devirginizing women as a sport, and men who don't want to get involve with a virgin period because we are so "clingy" and "emotionally attached" that it is a major turn-off. Either way, I don't want to be involved with either because neither groups actually care about the woman or getting to know her.


Bad experiences can be souring but i m pretty sure from talking to people that many inexperienced individuals would prefer partners on a similar level with them so they aren t quite as intimidated when the relationship turns sexual.

And stereotyping people is never a good idea, you ll only convince yourself things are even worse than they already are.


----------



## brokensaint

15.


----------



## Sarah106

20

Me and my husband were virgins when we got married. Let's just say SA has made this area of our relationship not that great.


----------



## epril

DitzyDreamer said:


> I would have to see a picture of that.
> 
> Happy to be involve as in happy to devirginize her or happy to have a relationship (be it sexual or non-sexual) with her? There's a difference.
> 
> From my personal experience, I have found that most men go under two categories: Those who are obsessed with devirginizing women as a sport, and men who don't want to get involve with a virgin period because we are so "clingy" and "emotionally attached" that it is a major turn-off. Either way, I don't want to be involved with either because neither groups actually care about the woman or getting to know her.
> 
> All the more reason to get it over with.
> 
> Thanks for your advice, but in the end, you aren't in my position nor feel the pain I feel.
> 
> What you have to realize is that not everyone has someone out there for them and that there are some people who will never find love or intimacy, and the closest thing to it is sex with a prostitute. People who tell me and other unattractive women that there is someone out there for them and they should be patient just don't get it or are bull****ting.
> 
> So to all the ugly female virgins out there who think that there is someone out there, good luck. It is only a myth that everyone has someone made for them, and that saying is only said to make an ugly woman feel better about herself. Don't be afraid to explore your sexuality by seeking an experienced male prostitute who won't judge you and will teach you to be confident as an ugly woman WITH sexual desires (not all of use are asexual!)...even if you have to shell several hundred dollars. Afterall, men have been seeking female prostitutes for centuries...why can't we? So as long as it is safe and consensual, there should be no problems.


Did you watch Hung this week???


----------



## epril

I was 17.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

Hypnos said:


> Bad experiences can be souring but i m pretty sure from talking to people that many inexperienced individuals would prefer partners on a similar level with them so they aren t quite as intimidated when the relationship turns sexual.
> 
> And stereotyping people is never a good idea, you ll only convince yourself things are even worse than they already are.


I haven't had any bad experiences. I have had NO experience. Which is why I'm all for women seeking out experience in a safe manner. I don't know why people are being so hypocritical. It is all cool for a male virgin to get a female prostitute, but when a female virgin does the same, people freak out and tell the girl to be "patient" or get some self-esteem. WTF?

Btw, I'm not stereotyping people, but rather generalising based from my personal observations.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

epril said:


> Did you watch Hung this week???


What's Hung? And what does Hung have to do with anything?


----------



## epril

Hung is on HBO I think. The main character is a male prostitute. The other night he was hired by a lady in her 50's? Not very attractive, not happy with her marriage. At first she was feeling sorry for herself and changed her mind about paying for sex. The prostitute wasn't much into it either, but he thought to himself he had a job to do and was a professional and he ended up showing her a very good time. Your post reminded me of this.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

epril said:


> Hung is on HBO I think. The main character is a male prostitute. The other night he was hired by a lady in her 50's? Not very attractive, not happy with her marriage. At first she was feeling sorry for herself and changed her mind about paying for sex. The prostitute wasn't much into it either, but he thought to himself he had a job to do and was a professional and he ended up showing her a very good time. Your post reminded me of this.


Oh.

Well, I guess there is some similarities, but I'm not in my 50s. I'm not even twenty. I'm still a teenager, and I have not been married. The show sounds interesting.

I guess I should start watching Hung. Do you know when it comes on?


----------



## Iced Soul

epril said:


> Did you watch Hung this week???


Hung is like one of the best shows ever.


----------



## bugmenot

I'll prbly be 56 if I even lose it by then.


----------



## leonardess

19.


----------



## gaz

sabueed said:


> how do all you guys end up losing your virginity, do you take the initiative and go up to kiss her and start the lovemaking or what


It puzzles me. A lot of people go to bars get drunk, buy drinks to a girl and get her drunk and then have sex for one night and not see them again, but i find that gross. I want to be in a relationship before ever having sex. I'm still waiting.


----------



## Hypnos

DitzyDreamer said:


> I haven't had any bad experiences. I have had NO experience. Which is why I'm all for women seeking out experience in a safe manner. I don't know why people are being so hypocritical. It is all cool for a male virgin to get a female prostitute, but when a female virgin does the same, people freak out and tell the girl to be "patient" or get some self-esteem. WTF?
> 
> Btw, I'm not stereotyping people, but rather generalising based from my personal observations.


I really don t mind what people do, it s their choice. It s just in my opinion, i don t like the idea of prositutes for either gender. I m an 18 year old male virgin and the idea of getting a prositute just grosses me out, there s no way i d want that. It just seems pointless to me if the other person doesn t want to do it.

But it s really none of my business what other people with different opinions do, so just do whatever you want.


----------



## nothing to fear

DitzyDreamer said:


> I haven't had any bad experiences. I have had NO experience. Which is why I'm all for women seeking out experience in a safe manner. I don't know why people are being so hypocritical. It is all cool for a male virgin to get a female prostitute, but when a female virgin does the same, people freak out and tell the girl to be "patient" or get some self-esteem. WTF?
> 
> Btw, I'm not stereotyping people, but rather generalising based from my personal observations.


i am actually in support of there being prostitutes for women as well, if it is done in a completely safe manner and environment. not specifically only for just what is referred to as the usual definition of sex, but i see little harm in women having access to services where they can also go and have the opportunity to be pleasured.
i'm still not completely sure why those don't exist, or if they do i don't see them advertised anywhere. if i go to one of those "erotic massage parlors" that seem to be common here and ask for a "happy ending" i'm pretty sure they would just laugh and tell me i'm not supposed to be there. even in amsterdam they didn't have them.

anyway, i think the reason a few have suggested it is a bad idea is because it seems as if you are doing it for the wrong reasons. even though it would be nice to have a bit of experience now i'm a bit glad i didn't end up having sex in the past because at the time i wanted to do it, and who i would have done it with didn't matter that much since i think i either consciously or subconsciously felt a bit worthless and that meaningless sex was the best i could get and that it would be a joke to assume i could have something more. it can eventually be a pretty damaging attitude to have, i think.

i know we can't exactly judge on what you feel is your personal choice but i'm just offering insight since i was in your place at one time.

for those people who decide to lose it to a prostitute, or who have, i still wonder how that would sound when they meet someone and tell them that. and how they would feel when they have the opportunity to have sex with someone they really care for. i'm not against prostitution and those who chose to visit them but i guess it more depends on their attitude towards sex in general on what i would judge them on. i can't speak for everyone though, both men and women might not like that and might just have negative judgments towards it.


----------



## nothing to fear

DitzyDreamer said:


> Happy to be involve as in happy to devirginize her or happy to have a relationship (be it sexual or non-sexual) with her? There's a difference.
> 
> From my personal experience, I have found that most men go under two categories: Those who are obsessed with devirginizing women as a sport, and men who don't want to get involve with a virgin period because we are so "clingy" and "emotionally attached" that it is a major turn-off. Either way, I don't want to be involved with either because neither groups actually care about the woman or getting to know her.


i really hope you don't honestly believe this as well. :/ i'm not a male so i can't speak for them but i can't imagine that most simply either go under those two categories. i'm 100% positive there are men who are either indifferent or who actually care about the woman enough to not just see devirginizing a woman as something they are particularly turned on by, but some actually do care about the woman enough to make sure they are comfortable and that they enjoy it as much as he would. either way, there are men out there who would be fine with it for what i see as the "right" reasons.


----------



## markx

Although I'm aware that the "devirginizing" fetish exists, I have never heard of anyone (men, that is) who would avoid a virgin because they might become "clingy and emotionally attached". For the majority of men that would be a major turn-*on*. I don't doubt that _some_ men would be anti-virgin, but they're only a minority.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, the anti-virgin sentiment is probably more common amongst "lads" who are just looking for no-commitment casual sex.


----------



## Post_Punk_Proclivity

DitzyDreamer said:


> Happy to be involved as in happy to devirginize her or happy to have a relationship (be it sexual or non-sexual) with her? There's a difference.
> 
> From my personal experience, I have found that most men go under two categories: Those who are obsessed with devirginizing women as a sport, and men who don't want to get involve with a virgin period because we are so "clingy" and "emotionally attached" that it is a major turn-off. Either way, I don't want to be involved with either because neither groups actually care about the woman or getting to know her.


I think the latter of what you first mentioned is the most likely as because most female virgins, based on my own personal experience and assumptions, would not give up their virginity unless first they ackowledged a true connection between both themselves and their partner.

As for placing men in boxes, well of course you can't believe what you've said to be true. I dated a virgin who I was extremely interested in for no other reason than I liked her a lot and it just so happened that we had relations. I did not view her being a virgin as a complete turn off at all, why would I??


----------



## Steve123

21 and still nothing


----------



## mardy423

I was 21.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

nothing to fear said:


> i really hope you don't honestly believe this as well. :/ i'm not a male so i can't speak for them but i can't imagine that most simply either go under those two categories. i'm 100% positive there are men who are either indifferent or who actually care about the woman enough to not just see devirginizing a woman as something they are particularly turned on by, but some actually do care about the woman enough to make sure they are comfortable and that they enjoy it as much as he would. either way, there are men out there who would be fine with it for what i see as the "right" reasons.


Of course there are some that don't act like a bunch of idiots toward female virgins, but from _my_ experience, they seem to be in the minority.

But whatever. I'm just going by personal observation. It is either turn-on (fetish) or turn-off (prejudice). Only a small percentage are truly in between.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

Jaiyyson said:


> I think the latter of what you first mentioned is the most likely as because most female virgins, based on my own personal experience and assumptions, would not give up their virginity unless first they ackowledged a true connection between both themselves and their partner.
> 
> As for placing men in boxes, well of course you can't believe what you've said to be true. I dated a virgin who I was extremely interested in for no other reason than I liked her a lot and it just so happened that we had relations. I did not view her being a virgin as a complete turn off at all, why would I??


Ugh. Why do people think that I don't believe in what I'm saying? Whether some believe it or not, there are PLENTY of men in those two categories. If that were not the case, why would I feel the way that I feel?

Please stop telling me what I believe or don't believe. And trust me when I say that you do not represent all men. Not even close.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

nothing to fear said:


> i am actually in support of there being prostitutes for women as well, if it is done in a completely safe manner and environment. not specifically only for just what is referred to as the usual definition of sex, but i see little harm in women having access to services where they can also go and have the opportunity to be pleasured.


Finally! Someone who is on the same boat as me.



> i'm still not completely sure why those don't exist, or if they do i don't see them advertised anywhere. if i go to one of those "erotic massage parlors" that seem to be common here and ask for a "happy ending" i'm pretty sure they would just laugh and tell me i'm not supposed to be there. even in amsterdam they didn't have them.


I wish there were more, but from what I've heard, there are a few "sex tours" that pander to the American woman in Italy. If only I had the money to go on such a trip. It would be the happiest three weeks of my life!



> anyway, i think the reason a few have suggested it is a bad idea is because it seems as if you are doing it for the wrong reasons. even though it would be nice to have a bit of experience now i'm a bit glad i didn't end up having sex in the past because at the time i wanted to do it, and who i would have done it with didn't matter that much since i think i either consciously or subconsciously felt a bit worthless and that meaningless sex was the best i could get and that it would be a joke to assume i could have something more. it can eventually be a pretty damaging attitude to have, i think.


Let me ask you this: Would you rather have an eighteen year old girl go on as a virgin feeling terrible about herself and her sexuality and have a low self-esteem, or would you rather have her take her confidence into her own hands and gain self-esteem via paying male prostitutes? Virginity can cause a lack of confidence; it can make a woman feel terrible and undesirable, especially if she is over a certain age. Being able to break through that would be a great experience. But of course, finding male prostitutes-particularly in the U.S.- is hard, especially if you don't have much money.



> i know we can't exactly judge on what you feel is your personal choice but i'm just offering insight since i was in your place at one time.


I feel like I am being judged, and by MEN no less. Seriously, these men who tell me to just "sit, wait, and be patient" are the same men who wouldn't give me the time of day because I'm not pretty.



> for those people who decide to lose it to a prostitute, or who have, i still wonder how that would sound when they meet someone and tell them that. and how they would feel when they have the opportunity to have sex with someone they really care for. i'm not against prostitution and those who chose to visit them but i guess it more depends on their attitude towards sex in general on what i would judge them on. i can't speak for everyone though, both men and women might not like that and might just have negative judgments towards it.


When? You mean IF they find someone they love. There is this misconception that EVERYONE will fall in love someday or have a seriously intimate relationship when that is certainly NOT true. It is time to be realistic. I mean, you are 20 and virgin. Have you ever started thinking that maybe you will not meet this Prince Charming or any guy who will take interest in you? I'm 18, and I certainly have. I'd rather go for "it' now, then wait "several years" and be devastated that I'm still single and virgin. But that's JMO.


----------



## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> From my personal experience, I have found that most men go under two categories: Those who are obsessed with devirginizing women as a sport, and men who don't want to get involve with a virgin period because we are so "clingy" and "emotionally attached" that it is a major turn-off.


I've never heard any guy express the latter viewpoint, although I agree that there are some men who do fall into the former category.

Why would a virgin be more "clingy" or "emotionally attached"? And the second she loses her virginity, does she suddenly lose those attributes too? What you're saying doesn't make any sense to me.



> What you have to realize is that not everyone has someone out there for them and that there are some people who will never find love or intimacy, and the closest thing to it is sex with a prostitute. People who tell me and other unattractive women that there is someone out there for them and they should be patient just don't get it or are bull****ting.


In a world of six billion people, I think there is probably someone out there for everyone, yourself included. I mean, just statistically speaking alone, there has to be. Elsewhere in this thread you say you are still a teenager, so I think you're a bit young to be giving up and deciding that there's no one out there for you.


----------



## pollster

I am amazed, and a bit disturbed, at the very young age that some of the women on here have lost their virginity... No wonder parents are so freaked out! It makes me glad that more and more young girls today (at least I think) are becoming empowered to not feel as pressured to "give it away" before they are really ready. I mean, I can't imagine too many 12-14 year olds have really made a well-thought-out decision about sex! My god people! So young.

I also think it's amazing just how much emphasis (or perceived emphasis) our society places on losing it -- for men or women. It's really quite stupid when you think about it. (Maybe it's some primal instinct to shun those who refuse to procreate and further along the species!!) Besides, I think way too many people think about sex and virginity (and losing it) in a far too closed-minded way... it's more than just the peg in the hole! (will that get moderated?!)

Gaz -- I wouldn't be so surprised at the lack of virgins in this thread. Given what we all know to be true about how society makes virgins feel embarassed and "wrong", I would guarantee you that many are simply lurking in the background (both on here, and in real life).


----------



## DitzyDreamer

KyleThomas said:


> I've never heard any guy express the latter viewpoint, although I agree that there are some men who do fall into the former category.
> 
> Why would a virgin be more "clingy" or "emotionally attached"? And the second she loses her virginity, does she suddenly lose those attributes too? What you're saying doesn't make any sense to me.


It is a theory stating that women become extremely attached and/or committed to their "first", the one they gave their virginity to. Many men fear that if they are that "unlucky first", they will have to fear being with an overly clingly female that they devirginize. The Wedding Crashers explores this comically, if you want to see an example.



> In a world of six billion people, I think there is probably someone out there for everyone, yourself included. I mean, just statistically speaking alone, there has to be. Elsewhere in this thread you say you are still a teenager, so I think you're a bit young to be giving up and deciding that there's no one out there for you.


See, that "someone is there for everyone" is a myth, or at least in my opinion it is. Some people are not meant to be in serious relationships or have an intimate partner or lover, SA or no SA, and that is fine. Some people are not ever INTERESTED in sexual relationships (i.e. asexuals) and that is fine. But for those who don't find those special loved ones, there is ALWAYS that option (and I'm one of those people), and they shouldn't be judged for it.

And statistically speaking, there are more women than men, and when you factor in gay men, men in jail, and men who are married, it makes it even THAT much harder for a woman to find a man...ANY man, good or abusive. I don't want to sound negative, but I'm looking at statistics. Sure there are six billion people out there, but that doesn't mean anything when you have so many things to factor.

And as for me having a special someone, I don't think so. I've lowered my standards completely. At this point, I, personally, wouldn't mind dating a 500 pound, alcoholic, unemployed, abusive man (but who's to say he'll be interesting in me?).

Being lonely is my worse nightmare. I, personally, would rather be in a bad relationship than none at all.


----------



## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> It is a theory stating that women become extremely attached and/or committed to their "first", the one they gave their virginity to. Many men fear that if they are that "unlucky first", they will have to fear being with an overly clingly female that they devirginize. The Wedding Crashers explores this comically, if you want to see an example.


Hmmm. I don't think I'm going to take the content of bad Hollywood comedies as in any way relating to real life. I've never heard any man express this "unlucky first" idea you propose. Maybe I just talk to the wrong sorts of men (or the right sort, I suppose), but I just don't see it. Every woman was a virgin at some point, and so for your theory to be correct, every woman would exhibit this trait. Otherwise, all you're saying is that some women are clingy, which has nothing to do with their virgin status.



> See, that "someone is there for everyone" is a myth, or at least in my opinion it is.


So out of approx 3 billion men, you don't think there is anyone out there who would find you attractive and interesting? Really?



> Some people are not meant to be in serious relationships or have an intimate partner or lover, SA or no SA, and that is fine. Some people are not ever INTERESTED in sexual relationships (i.e. asexuals) and that is fine.


You seem to be talking about people who _choose_ not to be in a relationship, which is a different matter from someone being unable to find a compatible partner.



> But for those who don't find those special loved ones, there is ALWAYS that option (and I'm one of those people), and they shouldn't be judged for it.


Nobody is judging anyone for choosing whether or not to be in a relationship. I simply take issue with your claim that some people would find it impossible to find a partner.



> And statistically speaking, there are more women than men,


Slightly more, yes.



> and when you factor in gay men,


And there are no lesbians?



> men in jail,


And there are no women in jail?



> and men who are married,


...to women?



> it makes it even THAT much harder for a woman to find a man...ANY man, good or abusive.


No it doesn't. All the factors that you claim take men out of the available pool, also remove women (your "competition", if you want to look at it that way) form the pool too. Surely you're not seriously suggesting that the numbers of gay men, prisoners and married men is creating a serious imbalance between the numbers of single men and single women?



> I don't want to sound negative, but I'm looking at statistics. Sure there are six billion people out there, but that doesn't mean anything when you have so many things to factor.


I dispute that the factors you've quoted have any serious impact on your (or any woman's) opportunity to find a guy.



> And as for me having a special someone, I don't think so. I've lowered my standards completely. At this point, I, personally, wouldn't mind dating a 500 pound, alcoholic, unemployed, abusive man (but who's to say he'll be interesting in me?).


Who's to say he won't? (Or even that a slightly more attractive proposition won't be.)



> Being lonely is my worse nightmare. I, personally, would rather be in a bad relationship than none at all.


I find that a very strange attitude to take.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

KyleThomas said:


> Hmmm. I don't think I'm going to take the content of bad Hollywood comedies as in any way relating to real life. I've never heard any man express this "unlucky first" idea you propose. Maybe I just talk to the wrong sorts of men (or the right sort, I suppose), but I just don't see it. _Every woman was a virgin at some point_, and so for your theory to be correct, every woman would exhibit this trait. Otherwise, all you're saying is that some women are clingy, which has nothing to do with their virgin status.


Yeah...at thirteen. And I don't know where you come from, but most women never forget that "special first", the one they fall for and dream of living with for the rest of their lives. It isn't until after the first breakup that women, stereotypically speaking, become less and less emotionally attached...or so the stereotype goes. I mean, it is easier to sleep with that tenth guy than your first and...nevermind.

And I was only using the Wedding Crashers as an example.



> So out of approx 3 billion men, you don't think there is anyone out there who would find you attractive and interesting? Really?


Again, you are not factoring the millions that are gay, in jail, and with other, more attractive women.

And I'm not that interesting or attractive. I would pm you a picture, but the last thing I want is some stranger over the internet making fun of my unattractive looks.



> You seem to be talking about people who _choose_ not to be in a relationship, which is a different matter from someone being unable to find a compatible partner.


I was talking about both.



> Nobody is judging anyone for choosing whether or not to be in a relationship. I simply take issue with your claim that some people would find it impossible to find a partner.


People are judging my decision to seek a male prostitute...THAT is what they are judging me on. Forget the fact that I feel like crap and the only way I can get a guy to talk to me is if I'm aggressive (and I'm sick of doing all the initiation). I don't see why people would have a problem with a lonely girl wanting to explore sexuality in a safe, mature fashion as well as seek companionship (sp?), even if it means having to pay for it.

For our entire lives, I and other people, have been involuntarily single. We try, but nothing happens and no one wants us. Those people, along with myself, are the people who won't get married and have kids the natural way. It really upsets me when people hate on single people who choose to pay for prostitutes and artifical insemination, when that may be the only way we may live a semi-normal life.



> And there are no lesbians?


Well I guess I could date a lesbian (if she were interested), but still. Even though I am "bi-curious", I would prefer to have sexual relations with a man.



> And there are no women in jail?


Men outnumber woman behind the bars. Sorry.



> No it doesn't. All the factors that you claim take men out of the available pool, also remove women (your "competition", if you want to look at it that way) form the pool too. Surely you're not seriously suggesting that the numbers of gay men, prisoners and married men is creating a serious imbalance between the numbers of single men and single women?


For many women, it is. Haven't you heard of the Sex and the City jokes? The jokes go that all men are either gay, in a relationship, in jail or jobless. Though that is NOT the case for all men, there is some truth behind the statement.



> I find that a very strange attitude to take.


For someone with SA, I would think YOU would understand the fear of loneliness that some SAers have.


----------



## pollster

DitzyDreamer said:


> People are judging my decision to seek a male prostitute...THAT is what they are judging me on. Forget the fact that I feel like crap and the only way I can get a guy to talk to me is if I'm aggressive (and I'm sick of doing all the initiation). I don't see why people would have a problem with a lonely girl wanting to explore sexuality in a safe, mature fashion as well as seek companionship (sp?), even if it means having to pay for it.


I think it's definitely harder for people to accept a woman wanting to pay a stranger for sex, then the opposite. But I think as long as you are safe about it, it's an option that's out there. I wouldn't judge a woman for thinking about that as an option. I'd be more inclined to judge people on the types of people they are paying for sex -- people on the streets unwillingly, people supporting a drug habit, young girls/boys being taken advantage of, etc.

However, I did find your statement about how you'd rather be in an abusive relationship than none at all quite disturbing. No matter how hard loneliness might get at times, no person should 1) feel like they need someone else to make them whole, and more importantly 2) feel like an abusive relationship is a place of comfort. Sorry, that's just wrong/sad.


----------



## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> And I don't know where you come from, but most women never forget that "special first", the one they fall for and dream of living with for the rest of their lives.


A woman never forgetting her "special first" is not the same as becoming clingy and emotionally attached. You're mixing up two entirely different things.



> Again, you are not factoring the millions that are gay, in jail, and with other, more attractive women.


I did factor them in. I just don't agree that they have the huge statistical impact that you seem to think they do.



> And I'm not that interesting or attractive. I would pm you a picture, but the last thing I want is some stranger over the internet making fun of my unattractive looks.


Well that's nice. Just assuming I'm somebody who would make fun of someone else's looks. What do you base that judgment of me on?



> People are judging my decision to seek a male prostitute...THAT is what they are judging me on.


I'm not judging you on that, any more than I'd judge a man for doing the same. Who are these people who are judging you?



> For many women, it is. Haven't you heard of the Sex and the City jokes? The jokes go that all men are either gay, in a relationship, in jail or jobless. Though that is NOT the case for all men, there is some truth behind the statement.


It would be equally true for men to complain that all women already seem to have a husband/boyfriend. And yet you know that isn't true.



> For someone with SA, I would think YOU would understand the fear of loneliness that some SAers have.


I understand that, I just find your preference for a bad relationship over no relationship to be a bit strange. So you're saying that if your partner physically abused you, you'd still prefer to stay with him rather than be on your own?


----------



## DitzyDreamer

KyleThomas said:


> A woman never forgetting her "special first" is not the same as becoming clingy and emotionally attached. You're mixing up two entirely different things.


Did you even finish reading the paragraph? I could go on and explain more about this theory, but it is obvious that you've made your mind up about. So forget it.



> I did factor them in. I just don't agree that they have the huge statistical impact that you seem to think they do.


And you're not in the same position as me (i.e. seeking a male mate) or are you?

I could go into maths, show tons of studies, but that would be a waste of time. You have your mind made up about it: There is someone out there for everyone, even though statistics say otherwise (if you start out with more women than men, you WILL have men left over, even if gays and lesbians cancel each other out, you will still have more men in jail than women which causes even more disproportion).

But you are free to believe what you want to believe in.



> Well that's nice. Just assuming I'm somebody who would make fun of someone else's looks. What do you base that judgment of me on?


Well why wouldn't you? This IS the internet afterall. Peopel are more upfront via web.



> I'm not judging you on that, any more than I'd judge a man for doing the same. Who are these people who are judging you?


Read the thread, please. I'm not going to name any particular people.

And at any rate, why would you want to judge ANYONE, male or female for seeking out companionship in a non-traditional manner? Ugly/unattractive single people are human too.



> It would be equally true for men to complain that all women already seem to have a husband/boyfriend. And yet you know that isn't true.


Obviously because we outnumber men to begin with. PERIOD.



> I understand that, I just find your preference for a bad relationship over no relationship to be a bit strange. So you're saying that if your partner physically abused you, you'd still prefer to stay with him rather than be on your own?


Didn't you read the post? Yes.


----------



## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> Did you even finish reading the paragraph?


Yeah, you seemed to be implying that women become more and more jaded as they go through various relationships. Men, of course, remain in a state of permanent stasis from the moment they hit puberty until the day they die, totally unaffected by any relationships they enter into.

Hmm....



> I could go on and explain more about this theory, but it is obvious that you've made your mind up about. So forget it.


You're the one who appears to have made her mind up.



> And you're not in the same position as me (i.e. seeking a male mate) or are you?


Um...no. I have to give you that one. 



> I could go into maths, show tons of studies, but that would be a waste of time. You have your mind made up about it: There is someone out there for everyone, even though statistics say otherwise (if you start out with more women than men, you WILL have men left over, even if gays and lesbians cancel each other out, you will still have more men in jail than women which causes even more disproportion).
> 
> But you are free to believe what you want to believe in.


I believe that there are plenty of decent, worthwhile single males out there. I don't believe that there is some male drought going on due to huge numbers of incarcerated and/or gay men.



> Well why wouldn't you? This IS the internet afterall. Peopel are more upfront via web.


So because this is the internet, I would automatically mock your appearance? That's any male internet user's default position, is it? Making fun of your appearance?



> And at any rate, why would you want to judge ANYONE, male or female for seeking out companionship in a non-traditional manner? Ugly/unattractive single people are human too.


Personally, I wouldn't. I can't speak on behalf of others.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

ditzydreamer said:


> Obviously because we outnumber men to begin with. PERIOD.


It's, roughly, 50- ish% women and 49- ish% men.

Just saying.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

KyleThomas said:


> Yeah, you seemed to be implying that women become more and more jaded as they go through various relationships. Men, of course, remain in a state of permanent stasis from the moment they hit puberty until the day they die, totally unaffected by any relationships they enter into.


That's the stereotype. I'm not necessarily supporting it, just stating it. But I will say that it is far easier for a woman to sleep with her first than her tenth.



> You're the one who appears to have made her mind up.


Both of us have our positions, both of them polar opposites. You think that there is someone for everyone when numbers and other factors say otherwise. You are thinking with emotion/wishful thinking (i.e. There HAS to be...) while I'm basing my opinions off pure logic.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.



> I believe that there are plenty of decent, worthwhile single males out there. I don't believe that there is some male drought going on due to huge numbers of incarcerated and/or gay men.


Of course there are. The question is this: What kind of women are these men into? Certainly not the "ugly ducklings". What you don't seem to realize is that it is hard, VERY hard, for an ugly woman to attract even an ugly man. While women look for personality, money, and stability in a man, men are looking at the ***, chest, fertility etc (and of course personality to a certain extend), according the "Science of Sex Appeal" study. I'd recommend that you take a look at it.



> So because this is the internet, I would automatically mock your appearance? That's any male internet user's default position, is it? Making fun of your appearance?


Not automatically, but people tend to be more harsh and cruel in cyberspace than in real life. And if you don't make fun of me, you will probably (key word: probably) say [or think] something along the lines of "Oh NOW I can see why you are alone" all the while picking me apart inside your head. The last thing I need is someone picking me apart and making me feel worse about myself. I already do it. I don't need anyone else tearing me down anymore.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

EagerMinnow84 said:


> It's, roughly, 50- ish% women and 49- ish% men.
> 
> Just saying.


Source?


----------



## EagerMinnow84

DitzyDreamer said:


> Source?


The internet?

Just ran into this from an institution called the CIA

Age structure:

0-14 years: 27.2% (male 950,127,898/female 894,359,186)
15-64 years: 65.2% (male 2,235,114,476/female 2,192,071,874)
65 years and over: 7.6% (male 227,748,114/female 290,640,668 ) (2009 est.)

Sex ratio:

at birth: 1.07 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.02 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.78 male(s)/female
total population: 1.01 male(s)/female (2009 est.)


----------



## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> That's the stereotype. I'm not necessarily supporting it, just stating it. But I will say that it is far easier for a woman to sleep with her first than her tenth.


Easier in what way? I don't understand that statement at all.



> Both of us have our positions, both of them polar opposites. You think that there is someone for everyone when numbers and other factors say otherwise. You are thinking with emotion/wishful thinking (i.e. There HAS to be...) while I'm basing my opinions off pure logic.


I'm sure if you tried to pair up every single human being on the planet, there would be some women left without partners, but that number is statistically insignificant compared to the total number of people there are *on* the planet.

The tiny difference in percentage population between women and men is not going to affect you personally, despite your fears about all these gay prisoners that you can't have relationships with. (And would you even want to have relationships with people who have committed the sort of crimes that have landed them in prison? Oh, wait...any relationship is better than no relationship, right? Presumably even with a convicted murderer or rapist.)



> Of course there are. The question is this: What kind of women are these men into? Certainly not the "ugly ducklings". What you don't seem to realize is that it is hard, VERY hard, for an ugly woman to attract even an ugly man. While women look for personality, money, and stability in a man, men are looking at the ***, chest, fertility etc (and of course personality to a certain extend), according the "Science of Sex Appeal" study. I'd recommend that you take a look at it.


Yeah, personality is always way down the list for us men. Who cares what a woman's personality is like, eh? T&A is all we care about. And we're all exactly the same too. Yep. We all look for exactly the same shallow qualities in a woman. :roll



> Not automatically, but people tend to be more harsh and cruel in cyberspace than in real life. And if you don't make fun of me, you will probably (key word: probably) say [or think] something along the lines of "Oh NOW I can see why you are alone" all the while picking me apart inside your head. The last thing I need is someone picking me apart and making me feel worse about myself. I already do it. I don't need anyone else tearing me down anymore.


So again, you've just gone and pre-judged my attitude towards you. If you do that in real life you're hardly giving yourself a chance to find someone and have a relationship, are you?


----------



## nubly

sabueed said:


> how do all you guys end up losing your virginity, do you take the initiative and go up to kiss her and start the lovemaking or what


yep. i guess most women expect the male to make the first move.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

> I'm sure if you tried to pair up every single human being on the planet, there would be some women left without partners, but that number is statistically insignificant compared to the total number of people there are *on* the planet.


The fact that there WILL be some people left out is what I've been saying. Neither of us can know exact numbers, so you can't say the number of "odd-one outs" are insignificant. The point I've been trying to make has been made BY you. There is NOT someone out there for everyone.

So thank you for making that point.



> The tiny difference in percentage population between women and men is not going to affect you personally,


See, now there is the problem. How do YOU know? It IS going to affect someone, so why not have it affect the least desirable group of people? Socially, it makes perfect sense.



> despite your fears about all these gay prisoners that you can't have relationships with. (And would you even want to have relationships with people who have committed the sort of crimes that have landed them in prison? Oh, wait...any relationship is better than no relationship, right? Presumably even with a convicted murderer or rapist.)


When I factored in gay men and convicts, I am, mathematically speaking, taking away POTENTIAL mates for the single woman.

What you have to understand is that I am talking from an ugly, single female prespective. You see a married heterosexual man and say he is taking one woman out of the competition, but what I see is, as an USF, is a woman taking perhaps a potential mate out of the dating realm. You, Kyle, have the advantage. You get to choose who you want.



> Yeah, personality is always way down the list for us men. Who cares what a woman's personality is like, eh? T&A is all we care about. And we're all exactly the same too. Yep. We all look for exactly the same shallow qualities in a woman. :roll


Er, I never said all. But again, before you get all snide with me, you really should check the documentary, "The Science of Sex Appeal." Men are visual creatures, while women look at other factors. Men can be accused of being shallow, while women can be accused of being gold-diggers. The Science of Sex Appeal explains this REALLY well. In a primitive, yet biologically correct, view, men and women look for good "breeding" mates in each other and not even realize it. SOSA doc is a really insightful one. You might enjoy it if you give it a chance.

And of course personality is important, but it is far too simplistic to say beauty is on the inside. Plus, I have heard SO many men say they won't screw with a fat chick, a chick who has glasses/braces, etc while at the same time hear women talk about money, status, etc. Not to say that these people represent everyone, but the doc explains this SO well. If only you could watch it.



> So again, you've just gone and pre-judged my attitude towards you. If you do that in real life you're hardly giving yourself a chance to find someone and have a relationship, are you?


Not your attitude towards ME (though I have a feeling that you are annoyed and disgust with me), but your attitude towards my looks. It's okay. You wouldn't be the first, and you certainly won't be the last. Don't feel bad for being human.


----------



## DitzyDreamer

EagerMinnow84 said:


> The internet?
> 
> Just ran into this from an institution called the CIA
> 
> Age structure:
> 
> 0-14 years: 27.2% (male 950,127,898/female 894,359,186)
> 15-64 years: 65.2% (male 2,235,114,476/female 2,192,071,874)
> 65 years and over: 7.6% (male 227,748,114/female 290,640,668 ) (2009 est.)
> 
> Sex ratio:
> 
> at birth: 1.07 male(s)/female
> under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
> 15-64 years: 1.02 male(s)/female
> 65 years and over: 0.78 male(s)/female
> total population: 1.01 male(s)/female (2009 est.)


Since when is the internet correct all the time?

Anyway, let me break it down for you: Numerical and natural-wise, humans produce more men than women (roughly for every 100 xx, there are 105 xy). But, women live longer than men, and men in general are more likely to get killed at an early age (before twenty). This, however, does NOT balance the female-male ratio, but rather makes the ratio disproportionate (as the female to male ratio indicates). As time passes, the male to female ratio, the one that started out with men outnumber women, becomes more and more imbalance. Men are also more likely to be incarcerated (in the MILLIONS), thus making it even less balanced.

BUT, this does not apply for every country. In places like China and India, where men are favored over women, men outnumber women in EXTREMELY disproportionate rates. So I could even argue the ugly, single woman (USW) is not the only individual who is struggling to find a mate. But still, China and India are famous for their poor treatment of women, and most women would rather miss childbirthing years and live a life of solitude than to be oppressed by a man...

At any rate, while the numbers you post MAY be accurate, it is only number and factors nothing.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

I am assuming the internet is correct when I go to a website for the CIA. 
What do you personally think the ratio is.

This thread is _amazing_.


----------



## JFmtl

It would be nice to get that stats for individuals countries (male to female ratio in Canada or USA, etc.) But I would guess it probably more or less even...

And I really don't think the number of single males and females is unfavourable for females. Just look at this site, the proportion of virgin/single males is for sure much higher than the proportion of virgin/single females, esp in people over their 20 years old.

From a male perspective, looks are important, want it or not, but for both sex IMO not only males. IMO, you can't expect a relationship to last if you are disgusted by your partner's physique, there has to be some kind of physical attraction, connection between both. 

Also, girls do cares about men's look. I have heard many many many times women saying they don't want a smaller man, a hairy man, a fat guy, etc. Heck, a woman even told me once she didn't want an uncircumcised man. On the top of that, a man has to look strong, confidant, in a favourable social situation ($$$) etc.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

JFmtl said:


> Also, girls do cares about men's look. I have heard many many many times women saying they don't want a smaller man, a hairy man, a fat guy, etc. Heck, a woman even told me once she didn't want an uncircumcised man. On the top of that, a man has to look strong, confidant, in a favourable social situation ($$$) etc.


Ha, that's true. I have a friend who doesn't want to date a guy that looks "too jewish" but she is looking for only jewish guys. And another friend that refuses to consider guys if they aren't really skinny.


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## XxArmyofOnexX

JFmtl said:


> Also, girls do cares about men's look. I have heard many many many times women saying they don't want a smaller man, a hairy man, a fat guy, etc. Heck, a woman even told me once she didn't want an uncircumcised man. *On the top of that, a man has to look strong, confidant, in a favorable social situation ($$$) etc.*


"_And therein_, as the _Bard would tell us_, _lies the rub..."_


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## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> The fact that there WILL be some people left out is what I've been saying. Neither of us can know exact numbers, so you can't say the number of "odd-one outs" are insignificant. The point I've been trying to make has been made BY you. There is NOT someone out there for everyone.
> 
> So thank you for making that point.


I disagree. I don't think that the numbers really affect any given individual. The slight difference in percentages of males and females in the world is *not* stopping you from finding a partner.



> What you have to understand is that I am talking from an ugly, single female prespective.


Ugly single female? I think that attitude towards yourself has a lot more to do with your predicament than the lack of available men.



> You see a married heterosexual man and say he is taking one woman out of the competition, but what I see is, as an USF, is a woman taking perhaps a potential mate out of the dating realm. You, Kyle, have the advantage. You get to choose who you want.


Oh definitely. Women are queueing up for me. "Pick me, Kyle!" they scream excitedly. :roll



> Er, I never said all. But again, before you get all snide with me, you really should check the documentary, "The Science of Sex Appeal." Men are visual creatures, while women look at other factors. Men can be accused of being shallow, while women can be accused of being gold-diggers. The Science of Sex Appeal explains this REALLY well. In a primitive, yet biologically correct, view, men and women look for good "breeding" mates in each other and not even realize it. SOSA doc is a really insightful one. You might enjoy it if you give it a chance.


I don't like this thing of reducing people's actions and choices down to that of mere biological urges. It's the same with all the "alpha male" crap that gets posted on here. We're not gorillas or chimps. We are human beings, and we are far more complex than that. We can see beyond mere animal urges.



> And of course personality is important, but it is far too simplistic to say beauty is on the inside. Plus, I have heard SO many men say they won't screw with a fat chick, a chick who has glasses/braces, etc


I've *never* heard a guy say that.



> Not your attitude towards ME (though I have a feeling that you are annoyed and disgust with me), but your attitude towards my looks. It's okay. You wouldn't be the first, and you certainly won't be the last. Don't feel bad for being human.


My attitude towards your looks? How can I have an "attitude" towards your looks when I don't know what you look like? Again, you're pre-judging me, and making assumptions about how I'd view you. That's what I'm saying.  If you make those assumptions in real life, then you'll prejudice any potential relationships with the opposite sex befoe they've even begun.


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## DitzyDreamer

EagerMinnow84 said:


> I am assuming the internet is correct when I go to a website for the CIA.
> What do you personally think the ratio is.
> 
> This thread is _amazing_.


And I think you are _amazing_ for assuming that something that the CIA puts out is automatically true. I've always been told to look from SEVERAL different resources before coming to any sort of conclusion of my own.

But if that's how you roll, then that's how you roll.


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## EagerMinnow84

DitzyDreamer said:


> And I think you are _amazing_ for assuming that something that the CIA puts out is automatically true. I've always been told to look from SEVERAL different resources before coming to any sort of conclusion of my own.
> 
> But if that's how you roll, then that's how you roll.


Since the CIA isn't, say, wikipedia or yahoo answers, and it is the Central Intelligence Agency, I take what they have to say pretty truthfully.

What are your resources in assuming that the female population is so much more than males then. What do you think the ratio of men to women are. Just curious.


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## DitzyDreamer

KyleThomas said:


> I disagree. I don't think that the numbers really affect any given individual. The slight difference in percentages of males and females in the world is *not* stopping you from finding a partner.


But they will. Unless polygamy is taken up, there WILL be women without a partner. Someone will be affected. What part of that don't you understand?



> Ugly single female? I think that attitude towards yourself has a lot more to do with your predicament than the lack of available men.


Not really. If you were to meet me in real life, you would meet a completely different person. You would _really_ have to know me/talk to me to get the attitude toward me. Unlike everyone on this forum, I don't suffer from severe social anxiety, but severe introvertedness (if that's a word), which can cause social anxiety to a certain extend, but in a more subtle way.



> Oh definitely. Women are queueing up for me. "Pick me, Kyle!" they scream excitedly. :roll


I never said nor implied that. But if you want to misconstrue my statement as such, then be my guest.



> I don't like this thing of reducing people's actions and choices down to that of mere biological urges. It's the same with all the "alpha male" crap that gets posted on here. We're not gorillas or chimps. We are human beings, and we are far more complex than that. We can see beyond mere animal urges.


Whether you want to believe it or not, humans ARE animals. Sure, we have a brain, but there is no escaping something that is inherent and natural. We can't just deanimalize ourselves.

Again, just watch the documentary.



> I've *never* heard a guy say that.


No offense, but I have a hard time believing that you have NEVER heard a guy say they wouldn't screw or get seriously involved with a fat chick or have never heard of a man who is only attracted to thinner women. Have you been living under a rock, or are you seriously unaware of the issues heavy women face in the dating realm? Why is there a huge stigma against heavy women and not so much for heavy men? What about all the body image issues women have to face? Sure, men have some to face, but nowhere near to the extend women have. In the looks department, society seems to be more forgiving towards men than women.



> My attitude towards your looks? How can I have an "attitude" towards your looks when I don't know what you look like? Again, you're pre-judging me, and making assumptions about how I'd view you. That's what I'm saying. If you make those assumptions in real life, then you'll prejudice any potential relationships with the opposite sex befoe they've even begun.


Of course you can't have an attitude because I won't let you have one. I'm already judged harshly by everyone in my life, I don't need any stranger from cyberspace to do the same.


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## DitzyDreamer

EagerMinnow84 said:


> Since the CIA isn't, say, wikipedia or yahoo answers, and it is the Central Intelligence Agency, I take what they have to say pretty truthfully.
> 
> What are your resources in assuming that the female population is so much more than males then. What do you think the ratio of men to women are. Just curious.


I never said that the female population is so much more significant than than that of the male. Ever.

What I did say was that women do outnumber men to the point that there will be some women out there without a man. How much, I said, cannot be determined in precision.


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## DitzyDreamer

JFmtl said:


> It would be nice to get that stats for individuals countries (male to female ratio in Canada or USA, etc.) But I would guess it probably more or less even...


Not in China and India. Over there, men outnumber women significantly, but it is their own doing. What is one to expect when you kill baby girls all the while keeping their brothers around? Not really smart thinking on their part.



> And I really don't think the number of single males and females is unfavourable for females. Just look at this site, the proportion of virgin/single males is for sure much higher than the proportion of virgin/single females, esp in people over their 20 years old.


As much as I love SAS, this site does not represent the universe.

But there are probably more male virgins than female virigns..in the western world. Sex revolution changed the whole 'virginity is respectable' into Nathaniel Hawthorn's Scarlet letter. 40 year old virgin anyone?



> From a male perspective, looks are important, want it or not, but for both sex IMO not only males. IMO, you can't expect a relationship to last if you are disgusted by your partner's physique, there has to be some kind of physical attraction, connection between both.


I'm glad you are giving your MALE perspective. I can only give my USF perspective (obviously bias/skewed).



> Also, girls do cares about men's look. I have heard many many many times women saying they don't want a smaller man, a hairy man, a fat guy, etc. Heck, a woman even told me once she didn't want an uncircumcised man. On the top of that, a man has to look strong, confidant, in a favourable social situation ($$$) etc.


Oh yeah. But if you were to poll mature women, most would probably say that financial stability and a good sense of humor are above looks. From the Science of Sex Appeal, the doc did a study in which three men were to be rated on their looks based on the Golden Ratio and then they gave them fake portfolios that included their annual salary, job, etc. The guy who scored the highest in looks was given a low salary, menial job while the man who scored the lowest in looks was given a high salary, ITT job. They then took these portfolios and passed them around to women. They asked the woman to rate based on LOOKS. Interestingly enough, the man with the high golden ratio marks scored lower than his actual GRM and the guy with the lowest GRM w/the fake high salary got a whooping "9 out of 10."

So I guess there is truth to that saying, "Money makes you look better." Shallow, but true.


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## JFmtl

DitzyDreamer said:


> Oh yeah. But if you were to poll mature women, most would probably say that financial stability and a good sense of humor are above looks. From the Science of Sex Appeal, the doc did a study in which three men were to be rated on their looks based on the Golden Ratio and then they gave them fake portfolios that included their annual salary, job, etc. The guy who scored the highest in looks was given a low salary, menial job while the man who scored the lowest in looks was given a high salary, ITT job. They then took these portfolios and passed them around to women. They asked the woman to rate based on LOOKS. Interestingly enough, the man with the high golden ratio marks scored lower than his actual GRM and the guy with the lowest GRM w/the fake high salary got a whooping "9 out of 10."
> 
> So I guess there is truth to that saying, "Money makes you look better." Shallow, but true.


Well, if a hot chick says something really stupid, insulting, racist, or anything i really don't like to hear, suddenly, she is not that hot anymore. I guess money (or lack of) has the same kind of effect on women.

Of course, looks is not the only criteria esp on long term relationship, then there is tons of factors. But still, I don't back down on the point that woman cares about men's looks, you won't convince me women don't care at all on the physical beauty of a guy. if you compare guys in a similar financial situation, similar personalities,etc., the "hotter" guy (taller, muscled, etc.) will be a more likely to be more popular than the smaller, more hairier less-good-looking guy. I

Money is doomed to be an important factor, want it or not. After all, if your dreams and projects involve for example buying a house, raising a family and things like that, financial stability and money plays a big role. Good luck on buying a decent house with a man on welfare or on unstable minimal wage jobs. If you compare guys who have huge revenue difference between them, the richer one might suddenly get hotter, assuming the richer guy is decent looking to start with of course.


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## pollster

DitzyDreamer said:


> And I think you are _amazing_ for assuming that something that the CIA puts out is automatically true. I've always been told to look from SEVERAL different resources before coming to any sort of conclusion of my own.
> 
> But if that's how you roll, then that's how you roll.


I work for a major international market research company -- it's true that the figures of 50/50 for gender do not _heavily _skew one way or the other in this world.

Also, the CIA _World Factbook _website is providing data from various sources, such as in-country census stats, etc. The CIA didn't just make up the data for every single country themselves! It's a database that they put together and regularly update from other sources of information.

_What is The World Factbook's source for a specific subject field? 
The Factbook staff uses many different sources to publish what we judge are the most reliable and consistent data for any particular category. Space considerations preclude a listing of these various sources. _

Just saying.

Cheers.


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## KyleThomas

DitzyDreamer said:


> But they will. Unless polygamy is taken up, there WILL be women without a partner. Someone will be affected. What part of that don't you understand?


Yes, but statistically it's unlikely to be you. It's like saying someone has to win the lottery. Yeah, they will, but the likelihood of it being *you* is very, very small. The chance of *you* being left without a partner due to the slightly unequal distribution of men and women in the world is very tiny, because there are still billions of men out there.



> Not really. If you were to meet me in real life, you would meet a completely different person.


So you completely drop the "USF" chip from your shoulder in real life, and only wear it on the internet? Somehow I find that hard to believe.



> I never said nor implied that. But if you want to misconstrue my statement as such, then be my guest.


You implied that, as a guy, I have some sort of choice that is denied to you as a woman. I don't. You have exactly the same choices and opportunities that I do.



> Whether you want to believe it or not, humans ARE animals. Sure, we have a brain, but there is no escaping something that is inherent and natural. We can't just deanimalize ourselves.


Biologically, yes, but we are so much more than that.



> No offense, but I have a hard time believing that you have NEVER heard a guy say they wouldn't screw or get seriously involved with a fat chick or have never heard of a man who is only attracted to thinner women.


Sure there are men out there that think that, but you claimed to hear SO many men saying that. I don't hear men expressing these prejudices. Some men like heavier women, some like slimmer women. It's all down to personal preference.



> Have you been living under a rock, or are you seriously unaware of the issues heavy women face in the dating realm?
> Why is there a huge stigma against heavy women and not so much for heavy men?


I don't think there is. There are plenty of men who do not find stick thin women at all attractive.



> What about all the body image issues women have to face?


Most of that comes from the media, not from the attitudes of actual men towards women.



> Sure, men have some to face, but nowhere near to the extend women have. In the looks department, society seems to be more forgiving towards men than women.


There are just as many women who don't like fat men (or bald men or short men), as there are men who don't like heavier women. Again, it's down to individual taste.



> Of course you can't have an attitude because I won't let you have one. I'm already judged harshly by everyone in my life, I don't need any stranger from cyberspace to do the same.


Again, presuming I'd judge your looks harshly, and yet you don't even know me or what my attitude would or wouldn't be. I have a hard time believing you don't take this same judgmental attitude in real life.


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## Amocholes

*This thread has turned into the same old male vs. female debate and will now be closed. Men do not have it worse than women and women do not have it worse than men.*


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