# Overcoming Avoidance



## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi everybods

I was gonna put this in coping, but I need some positive input on this one from all you folks who making progress.

I have noticed since using the external focus and safety behaviour dropping, that my in situ anxiety has reduced to almost nil. This is good and is a major change for me.

However, I have got this tendency to subtley avoid social situations ingrained in to me and this last fortnight its been bugging me and getting me down. Now I get terribly low energy which puts me off doing my weekly evening activities, but I still have this aversion to ringing people up and seeing if they wanna go out. Basically I still belive that they will either say no, feel uncomfortable, or that I will go out with them and do something to offend them, make them think I'm a freak, get bullied or otherwise they decide that I am bad news.

Recent social experiences do not fully support this theory, but its a lifetime thing that is totally deeply ingrained. I know I just need to make myself do it, but its accompanied by this huge wash of lethargy which almost seems to take over my muscles. I have a feeling that SOME poeple will say no, as I know I caused myself some problems a few months back - all my own fault, I got rejected for being an idiot, basically part of my personality issues that I never realised until I went into therapy this second time round. I did bad, I was an utter tool ... I'd like to be forgiven though  Maybe I need to forgive myself too.

Anyone have any words of wisdom on how I might fight through the fog and make those calls? This avoidance is completely stalling my progress! 
Oh yeah - my goal is 'overcome my avoidance' - I just need some help!!

Ross


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Hi everybods
> 
> I was gonna put this in coping, but I need some positive input on this one from all you folks who making progress.
> 
> ...


and



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> I could definitely take heart from your examples Ardrum. Avoidance, I have realised, is a lifelong habit for me driven a lot by my energy levels - if I'm feeling groggy, which is often, I'm far less likely to want to do things. I never know when its going to strike, and so I become less likely to want to make plans.
> 
> Do you get a kind of zap of low energy when building up to your non-avoidance? How do you push through it? It would be cool if you could reply in my goal setting thread about avoidance!
> 
> ...


I think a large part of my recent success against avoidance has been due to the adequate setting of goals. I would still fall back to my old ways if I were told I had to call girls specifically to ask for a "date." I simply wouldn't go through with it at this point. Although I'm currently not even interested in dating, but I HIGHLY doubt I'd go through with the call if I set it as a goal today.

I almost made a thread about this, but I'll just state it here. Not all avoidance might be due to SA. For instance, if a really mean, cruel person called me to hang out, I wouldn't want to hang out with him/her because of that person's disposition, not because I'm anxious. I don't think turning down an invitation due to being exhausted is a bad thing, so long as that is the true reason (and not an excuse for worrying about social blunders and whatnot).

If I sense that I want to avoid a certain situation, I think introspectively about what SPECIFICALLY is causing me to hesitate. If I think the bulk of the reason is due to SA, I will try to go forward with the event. If it is due to other reasons (legitimate reasons, not excuses), then I don't worry about rejecting the offer. For instance, I might turn down a social invitation if it's going to cost me a boatload of money that I know I shouldn't spend... I wouldn't feel guilty about that.

It sounds like in your case, the lethargy feeling might be a result of SA since it comes right before you should get ready for an event. Worrying about an event can translate into physical exhaustion, and it's easy to mentally reinforce the "I'm too tired" feeling when you're not excited about the evening's possibilities (thinking they could be horrible).

One thing I've noticed when I get SA-induced fatigue is that it tends to go away once I actually get up and leave home. The same thing happens when I feel too tired to run... If I just put on the running clothes and go outside, I am not quite so tired. If I start running, I'm fine. These feelings are a little deceptive in my case.

Perhaps you could break your social events down into smaller parts so as to keep your mind from feeling too overwhelmed. Compartmentalizing what you need to do would be a lot less overwhelming than thinking about the entire day/night. If you plan to do a couple social events, just think about the first one (for instance). Thinking, "I'll practice non-avoidance for the next 5 minutes, regardless of any anxious fears that creep into my head" not very intimidating when compared to sizing up an entire evening.

Or maybe focusing on the current moment rather than about potentially negative results of an upcoming social encounter would help. This might come with limited success, but every inch counts. Generally speaking, I get less anxiety the less I think about upcoming events (besides the reasonable amount of planning stage).


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I think youre right about the SA-induced part of it, though I know that general lethargy (which is a constant problem for me) adds. I think I am still being perfectionisitic - I think if I go out feeling groggy then I will be "no fun". It stretches back to when one of my friends told me at school, about age 14, I was "too depressing" because back then I used to give voice to my negative outlook, which at the time was consuming me. I always kept my thoughts to myself and tried to be externally positive after that.

OK this is good. So I realise that my perfectionism combines with lethargy to make me want to stop or avoiud. This is dumb because its based on something someone said to me when I was 14.

Like you, I find I feel better when I actually DO IT. I've always known this if I'm honest, but too often I let the lethargy win. I'll be honest with myself and not say "I will just fight it" cos I've been saying this for years with little change, but I do at least know that once I'm out I feel better. I still have some environments I am uncomfortable going into - liek you say, dating would be one, and nightclubs are another.

I think its fair to say that, with the things I am avoiding, it is totally anxiety related. Not actually the fear of being anxious, but actually more the fear that I will come across arrogant, stuck-up, a know all, unlikeable and inappropriate - and so alienate yet another contact. I know that this genuinely is something that happens, as opposed to being a 'belief', and I have been working on this in therapy. I know its just I;ve got so used to having that reaction that, even though I know which behaviours to avoid to prevent that reaction, and why I used to behave in those ways, in my gut I still fear it happening. This I need to work on cognitively I think.

I think I need to set myself some lower-level goals - your advice to structure them is very good, now I just need to sit and figure what they are. I need to get over this "Theres no point asking someone out because they will only say no" bull sheet. Like in your example - the triumph is ASKING - the rest is out of my hands.

Hmm well thats helped a little, I think I'll go do some journaling on it.

Thanks for lighting a fire under my azz ardrum.

Ross


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## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

First address your own needs. Do you want to call someone up and hang out because it would be fun for you? Or do you think you 'should' because everyone else seems to do this with ease? Do YOU need a friend to vent to, or get you out of the house because its healthy for you? 

When you get closer to people, I think you have to look at your own needs, and put that forth. Others are more forgiving of the bad parts of your personality, if you have a genuine want to hang out with them for one reason or another. 

Weed through all the junk and find out the reasons you want to do this. We all want the company of others, because at baseline we need the social contact, no matter what happened to us to make us shun this very thing we need. If you put the focus on actually reaching out to someone rather than the false desire to please or put on a show or being everything someone else wants you to be, you're bound to be fatigued. Being careful to be EXACTLY what this person wants. Hey, what do you want? Like I said, people love it when you genuinely look forward to their company, and they will not reject you for this. Just keep it as simple as that.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Hello embers

Cute rodent.

I'm not worried about saying the right thing or being entertaining - being myself isnt an issue now. Its just overcoming the more long term sense that EVENTUALLY I will alienate people - because up until now some rather ingrained personality issues lead to this happening. Thats why I have been having therapy designed to treat personality disorders. My fatigue is not linked to socialising. I havent BEEN socialising - the fatigue is a lifelong companion, always been there as long as I can remember - but it intensifies when confronting avoidance because of the above. I've made huge progress lately, but it takes more time to shift a lifelong ingrained experience like that. Despite the successes I;ve been having, my avoidance actually escalates because I feel "surely, eventually, this will allcome tumbling down somehow" - and so I start to avoid as I get closer to people. I just need to keep chipping away at it.

It is just a matter of time - finding, connecting with and building relationhsips with people and proving to myself that rejection isnt something that is an inherent part of my life. You are one step ahead of me - at the moment I am rebuilding my life after everything falling apart. Its not about connecting yet - its about actually meeting people to potentially connect with.

Also I'm not fooling myself that every relationship should be deep and meaningful. Some friends will be deep, some will just be drinking / hobby buddies and I think thats ok. I'm not looking for heart-to-heart soulmates only.

Ross


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## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

As a side note having people criticize you can be looked at as a chance to learn. Maybe certain folks have already formed their opinions of you, when you didn't see yourself so clearly. We need these people to shape us and teach us, so we keep certain undesirable personality qualities in check...when we have future opportunities to connect. Its not meant to beat ourselves up for what we lack, but a chance to cultivate within us some more magnetic qualities to draw people in and keep them there. When we want and are ready. There are no "stalls" in therapy, just slowing down to turn another corner.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

I know I'm heading on the right path, its just getting that long term proof that 'the old ross' and the reactions he got arent actually a lifelong fixture. I;ve made progress and I think I'm forgetting that. I just need to keep putting myself out there, whilst being myself, and see what happens.

Without the 'old ross behaviours' to murky the waters, i think I am more likely to see that the past doesnt need to be repeated. I just needed that kick from Ardrum to get me out of the door and down the road to my martial arts classes / asking guys at work for drinks!!

Is that your gerbil?

Rossy RR


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## embers (Dec 19, 2006)

No I just googled hamsters and found this lil guy. I'm in a weird melancholy mood, at least I know why though, and this hamster is helping. As for that push heres another one...go go go Ross RR, ask those dudes out for drinks, ra ra ra. :boogie


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

The way I ended up asking my female acquantance to do something was to remind myself that it was NOT a date. I was merely seeing if she wanted to hang out. I'm not being creepy, so it's no big deal.

I find it funny that I can ask someone I only know a little bit to do something, but I don't feel like I could ask someone out on a "date." It's beyond me at this point. Strange, but the word has connotations that I find very intimidating (various expectations involved, hyper-analysis of every moment, etc.). I'm lucky that I don't desire to date right now, but it used to bother me to the point of some periodic depression a few years ago. 

I guess maintaining a casual mood makes non-avoidance easier. It downplays the hyper-significance that we tend to attribute to social activities. While simple, it might prove useful if you decide to ask someone to go do something.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Goal so far acheived. MMA once last week, called old freinds to reaqcuaint ourselves, went out twice in the evenings, went clay pigeon shooting with a bunch of guys and to pub in eve. Still cant do clubs, but hey ho.

This week so far : MMA today, just bought a Gi for Jiu Jitsu tomorrow and more muay thai on weds.

Tomorrow I will ask girl at work if guys go out for drinks at all and suggest we do something soon :afr I am inspired by Ardrum's old 'invitation' post.

Ross


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

*Re: re: Overcoming Avoidance*



yeah_yeah_yeah said:


> Goal so far acheived. MMA once last week, called old freinds to reaqcuaint ourselves, went out twice in the evenings, went clay pigeon shooting with a bunch of guys and to pub in eve. Still cant do clubs, but hey ho.
> 
> This week so far : MMA today, just bought a Gi for Jiu Jitsu tomorrow and more muay thai on weds.
> 
> ...


Have at it! So long as you bring it up, you've succeeded. It's very doubtful that anything HORRIBLE will result by merely extending a friendly invitation.

I'm also nowhere near the clubs level. Several years ago, a female friend tried to take me to one. I was utterly resistant to the proposition. This was when I was rather depressed over not having any success with females (context-specific depression of some sort). I think she was fed up with my complaining and told me to go with her to desensitize me to the experience. I told her I absolutely wouldn't dance, and she kept claiming that I wouldn't even have to do much of anything... that she'd do everything and it wouldn't look unusual since most guys can't dance anyway. Ugh, I just couldn't go forward with it. It's hard to think of intermediate steps to something like this... it seems like an all-or-nothing situation.

I'm actually going to be meeting someone new here soon (not today, but maybe this week or weekend). Instead of me doing the inviting though, I'm getting invited (through Facebook contact). She's the daughter of one of my mom's coworkers, and she happens to live near me (I live in the most densely populated area between Chicago and New York). I'm not certain I have much in common with her based on her profile, but it shouldn't be too hard to converse with her since she's highly extroverted. In any case, it's good to keep talking to new people.

I wish I had a factory of new people that I could bring out at the press of a button. LOL, I'd really get used to meeting people then.


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