# Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?



## No Limit (Dec 6, 2005)

I think I've been taking 2 x .5mg in the morning and at night for the past couple of months or so and it just seems to make me tired all the time now. I dunno. It just seems like all the medications I'm taking right now are sugar pills. Nothing helps anymore.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

klonopin to me, is the one that definately isnt a sugar pill. I can feel its effects a lot more subtle and sooner than any other medication I take.


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## D.B. Cooper (Jul 21, 2006)

According to my GP and despite my ancedotal experiance in the matter klonopin is the most sought after benzo for abuse. This is a guy who runs a clinic and 75% of his clients are drug seekers of some sort of another. He claims to also have the most problem with klonopin users out of all benzos "my dog ate my medication" etc.

I would think xanax but who knows.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

I think Xanax has definitely been the most sought after in terms of drug abuse, simply because of the fact that Klonopin was never really that known. It's always been Xanax and Valium that get all the street-cred, although still, most people can't even tell you what a benzo is, but they will know what Xanax and Valium can do. 

Oh, and by the way. Klonopin is definitely not a sugar pill. It may be the wrong benzo for you, but it's definitely not a sugar pill. Or maybe you've built up tolerance. If I remember correctly, I thought you used to like your Klonopin?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



Speak Easy said:


> I think Xanax has definitely been the most sought after in terms of drug abuse, simply because of the fact that Klonopin was never really that known. It's always been Xanax and Valium that get all the street-cred, although still, most people can't even tell you what a benzo is, but they will know what Xanax and Valium can do.


Yeah, Klonopin simply lacks name recognition. (The same is true of Ativan.) If you asked the average person on the street I suspect most would have a hard time guessing if a Klonopin is a pill or part of a car's transmission. I bet most people if told by a mechanic "Yeah, your transmission just needs a new klonopin and then it will work just fine" would never know they were just told absolute nonsense.

Everybody has heard of Valium & Xanax though. This is similar to how everybody knows that a .44 Magnum is a powerful handgun as Dirty Harry told them it was the most powerful on earth. Most have no clue that Dirty Harry lied to them as a .454 Casull -- something they never heard of -- is vastly more powerful and held the title of most powerful handgun cartridge for decades (till 2003). It's all about name recognition.


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## No Limit (Dec 6, 2005)

I don't really understand how people without anxiety or with can abuse this drug. Maybe I can see it being abused as a sleeping aid, but does it really produce that kind of high you get if you sniff cocaine or smoke a joint? Not for me. I just take them to relax me before an interview or presentation. I mean, sure my p-doc just refills the prescription for me like it's nothing and i Haven't seen him for awhile, but it's not like I"m really dependant on it. I can probably just stick with Nardil and just be fine if I really wanted to. Now something like cigarettes on the other hand is a different story.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



No Limit said:


> I don't really understand how people without anxiety or with can abuse this drug.


I don't know why any junkie would jump through all the hoops to get an MD to give them them a benzo when they can go to a liquor store and get unlimited amounts of vastly more potent alcohol without any hoops to jump through, other than they may glance at your ID just to be sure you're over 21.


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

No Limit said:


> I think I've been taking 2 x .5mg in the morning and at night for the past couple of months or so and it just seems to make me tired all the time now. I dunno. It just seems like all the medications I'm taking right now are sugar pills. Nothing helps anymore.


I totally agree with you. I had once taken 4mg/day, and it didn't do a ****. Plus, the withdrawal symptoms were just horrible.


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## splish6 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



UltraShy said:


> I don't know why any junkie would jump through all the hoops to get an MD to give them them a benzo when they can go to a liquor store and get unlimited amounts of vastly more potent alcohol without any hoops to jump through


Less liver and brain damage. At least, that would be _my_ reason.


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## Were (Oct 16, 2006)

there are junkies that take like 50 mg klonopin a day(its almost impossible to die from benzo overdose btw). i wonder how that feels like.


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## No Limit (Dec 6, 2005)

akstylish said:


> No Limit said:
> 
> 
> > I think I've been taking 2 x .5mg in the morning and at night for the past couple of months or so and it just seems to make me tired all the time now. I dunno. It just seems like all the medications I'm taking right now are sugar pills. Nothing helps anymore.
> ...


Yeah I remember i went off of it cold turkey for awhile and I was very irritable. I've been asking my pdoc to just put me on valium, but he says "they're all the same"... His only saving grace is that he prescribed Nardil for me.

As for 40mg of Klonopin, I guess they need that much to come off their crack high.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

Does anyone know how much Klonopin it would actually take to OD? 50mg sounds like a lot. I'm sure respiratory arrest would have to be somewhere around that corner. I usually stumble and slur after 2mg, and would probably pass out after 3-4. I can't even imagine 50mg.


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## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

I took 2mg of Klonopin once before, and I didn't notice any difference. It didn't even make me sleepy.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



UltraShy said:


> No Limit said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really understand how people without anxiety or with can abuse this drug.
> ...


Because it's the thrill of popping a pill, and the fact that it doesn't produce any of the negative effects that alcohol usually instills (such as horrible morning-after hangovers, smelling of alcohol, having to actually drink the horrid tasting stuff, etc). Also, I'm sure many junkies like the thrill of insufflating the crushed benzo. There are many reasons. Also, you can't pour alcohol on top of a bowl of marijuana, whereas you can chop up a Klonopin pill and sprinkle it on top (sort of somewhat lacing it). And I'm sure there are junkies out there that could come up with a million other reasons. Also, maybe they aren't looking for that outgoing, exhilirated personality change. Maybe they are simply looking to relax or amplify the effects of another drug, and people see prescription drugs as ideal for this.


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## Razorblade Kiss (Oct 29, 2006)

It's booze in a pill. Take enough of it and you might as well be a drunken fool. I love that stuff. 2 mg is nice


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## styler5 (Oct 7, 2006)

No Limit said:


> akstylish said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="No Limit":c1bc9]I think I've been taking 2 x .5mg in the morning and at night for the past couple of months or so and it just seems to make me tired all the time now. I dunno. It just seems like all the medications I'm taking right now are sugar pills. Nothing helps anymore.
> ...


Yeah I remember i went off of it cold turkey for awhile and I was very irritable. I've been asking my pdoc to just put me on valium, but he says "they're all the same"... His only saving grace is that he prescribed Nardil for me.

As for 40mg of Klonopin, I guess they need that much to come off their crack high.[/quote:c1bc9]

Is Nardil a benzo too?


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

akstylish said:


> Is Nardil a benzo too?


 No, its an MAOI


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## splish6 (Mar 30, 2007)

korey said:


> I took 2mg of Klonopin once before, and I didn't notice any difference. It didn't even make me sleepy.


All alcohol and benzos do is take anxiety away (plus sedation, sleep-inducement, memory loss, and blah blah blah to varying degress). If you're already in a perfectly relaxing situation, nothing is really going to happen.

To capture the recreational value (to get "euphoria") from these drugs, you have to put yourself in a situation where you would usually be anxious. These are not "sit back and feel good" kinda drugs (except for GAD'ers, and SA'ers in social situations, etc.), you have to _do stuff_.

Socializing, writing, driving... Walking! If you're drunk (or benzoed) off your *** enough, you can enjoy stumbling around, tripping, rolling on the ground! Weeee!

I don't know the neuroscience, here's a model:

(Passive Phobias) Brain is anxious about percieving something - Anxiety + Exposure = Lack of pain 8) 
(Active Phobias) Brain is inhibited and afraid of doing the action - Anxiety + Do the action = Endorphins! :banana

God, I'm rambling out of control! I should've written this in my journal.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

splish6 said:


> korey said:
> 
> 
> > I took 2mg of Klonopin once before, and I didn't notice any difference. It didn't even make me sleepy.
> ...


I completely disagree with most of the entirety of those statements. Alcohol and benzos are somewhat similar, yes, but they do afflict different neurotransmitters, which is what sets them apart. For instance, take 15 shots of Smirnoff, and tell me that you don't feel those dopamine receptors kicking in. Then, let's look at an alcoholic. Some alcoholics are prone to violence and rage. I wonder why there's no such thing as violence in someone under the influence of benzos. Benzos are way more sedating and relaxing than alcohol. Too much dopamine activation results in psychosis/schizophrenia (i.e., cocaine-induced psychosis, etc).

As for your perspective on abusing benzodiazepines and alcohol, I think those are fairly incorrect, as well. They are definitely "sit back and feel good" kind of drugs, which is why they are classified as "downers"; they are depressants. They persuade your CNS into totally chilling out, which is why you will feel mellow and relaxed. What's not to be appreciated about that if you're sitting at home on a couch? In no way am I condoning benzo abuse/alcohol abuse, but this is utter reality. To make such a general statement that nobody can find euphoric benefit from a simple variable such as environment is completely wrong. Then again, there are those who find no euphoric benefit whatsoever, even from a 10mg dose of Xanax (Karl, I hope you don't mind me using you as an example), and those who stumble into a wonderland of bliss at a mere 2mg of Klonopin (look it up on erowid.org). Everyone is different.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Were said:


> there are junkies that take like 50 mg klonopin a day(its almost impossible to die from benzo overdose btw). i wonder how that feels like.


Yes, I'm well aware that a fatal benzo OD (without mixing in other drugs/alcohol) is nearly impossible, unless you somehow have access to pharmacy-sized quantities and "accidentally" take hundreds of pills. I seem to recall reading that the fatal dose for Valium is at least 8 grams (as in 800 of the largest size Valium tablets -- not exactly the sort of thing most folks have laying around the house).

That's why benzos became wildly popular back in the 1960s & '70s as they replaced barbs where fatal ODs, either accidental or intentional, were very possible, especially when mixed with alcohol. Benzos provided a safe sedative that had virtually no chance of killing patients.

As for junkies who take 50 mg of Klonpin, I'd have to ask the obvious question: where the hell does one get that much? I'm sure most SAS members who use Klonopin don't have that much in an entire prescription bottle. It strikes me as kind of hard to come up with 750 tablets x 2mg per month.

And 50 mg doesn't look as high when you consider that it is FDA approved for use up to 20 mg a day in epilepsy (though hardly ever done anymore since new anti-seizure drugs came along).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Speak Easy said:


> Then again, there are those who find no euphoric benefit whatsoever, even from a 10mg dose of Xanax (Karl, I hope you don't mind me using you as an example)


You can use me. Last night I was not in a good mood and felt like having a drink. I can tell you that a pint of malt liquor containing merely 1.3 ounces of alcohol is vastly more relaxing than taking any dose of Xanax. OK, I should limit that by saying "sane" dose of Xanax. I suspect Xanax could beat a beer if consumed in some massive amount that I've never yet tried.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

You'd be surprised how much they can get. Black market prices in the streets for Xanax can vary, and I'm sure they get lots of it (whether it be from legitimate prescriptions, pill banks, online pharmacies, illegitimate doctors, etc). I was once visited at school by former drug addcits, and there were 2 girls (age 17-19) who were taking up to 75 individual pills of Percocet. Different drugs, I know, but even harder to get your hands on if you think about drug class. They would both wake up in the middle of the night from withdrawal (about every hour) and pop more pills, so they were virtually on opiates 24 hours a day, which is ridiculous. And I'm not even talking about half-life, I mean real straight effects. 

Where's there's demand, there will definitely be supply.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



Speak Easy said:


> I was once visited at school by former drug addcits, and there were 2 girls (age 17-19) who were taking up to 75 individual pills of Percocet.


Well, those were 2 mighty stupid girls. Percocet is 5 mg of oxycodone mixed with 325 mg of liver-toxic Tylenol. One should never exceed 4,000 mg of Tyleno per day -- there were consuming just over 24,000 mg of Tylenol daily! There is no legitimate reason to mix oxy with tylenol other than as part of the DEA's "Let's Kill A Junkie" program. Anything containing oxy is still a CII drug even when mixed with that evil Tylenol.

If they kept that up they'd die from Tylenol induced liver failure long before the oxycodone did them in.



Speak Easy said:


> Where's there's demand, there will definitely be supply.


I, the great capitalist of SAS, regularly say basically that same thing. But it's vastly easier to make heroin (grow opium in field, extract the morphine & modify slightly and you've got heroin). It's not exactly a complex process and you can make a fortune off something as powerful as heroin.

On the other hand, I've seen the recipe online for making things like Valium and I don't imagine that anyone without a fully stocked lab and an advanced degree in chemistry could pull it off. All the benzos that are abused have to be diverted from legitimate sources, as it would be way too hard & not profitable enough to make a homemade batch.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



UltraShy said:


> Speak Easy said:
> 
> 
> > Where's there's demand, there will definitely be supply.
> ...


Yeah, but how many heroin users are there in America and how many pill-poppers? I think the latter would win. Although it is easier to make heroin, it is not that feasible to actually grow it (in the U.S., at least). It's not something that can be grown indoors; you need a large field, which in the U.S., can be hard to find. You can make a fortune off something as powerful as heroin if there were a high enough demand for it, but most drug dealers gain most of their profits from marijuana, cocaine, and crack. Cocaine and marijuana are cash-crop drugs. Yes, it's much harder to actually make a pill, like Valium, but it's not that hard to go to 20 different pill banks and order the maximum amount of pills from each one and start selling (I presume that's how drug dealers get their prescription drugs; I have no idea how they'd get their hands on so many different prescription drugs). And, also, there's no such thing as "legal heroin" in the U.S., so any type of heroin is totally confiscated and deemed illegal, whereas prescription drugs do have legitimate uses, so cracking down on a heroin junkie would be much easier than finding an Adderall abuser (for obvious physical characteristics, symptoms, etc). 
It would be much more profitable to sell prescription drugs than heroin, simply because they attract such a larger market and audience of drug-users.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*

^ Figures I've seen put heroin addicts at perhaps 1% of the population, so it's certainly not a popular drug. Many people aren't into needles and it's also seen as a dangerous & dirty drug by many (even by folks like Rush Limbaugh who consumed massive amount of OxyContin, which is not substantively different, other than it's made by Purdue Pharma and he could be sure of its purity).

I'd read how after we overthrew the Taliban, Afgan farmers went wild growing opium as it pays a lot more than other crops, plus opium requires minimal water & care so it's easy to grow and makes big money -- exactly what a farmer wants.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



UltraShy said:


> I'd read how after we overthrew the Taliban, Afgan farmers went wild growing opium as it pays a lot more than other crops, plus opium requires minimal water & care so it's easy to grow and makes big money -- exactly what a farmer wants.


Keyword: _Afghan_ farmer. In Afghanistan and Iraq, as with many other Middle Eastern countries, heroin and opium are much more popular crops due to the climate, and, as you mentioned, the actual facility to harvesting the crop. Also, it's important to note that Afghanistan exports about 75% of their heroin. Just imagine how quickly heroin junkies would diminish at the mere reduction of that figure to somewhere around 15-20%. At that, either violence and crime would rise or the junkies would simply find a new drug of choice, or maybe they'd even clean up their act.


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## splish6 (Mar 30, 2007)

Speak Easy-
The below answers are about benzos, you schooled me on alcohol. 



Speak Easy said:


> I wonder why there's no such thing as violence in someone under the influence of benzos.


Where'd you hear that? People can take like 2mg of Xanax, black out, and wake up hours later on the floor with their room completely trashed.



Speak Easy said:


> They are definitely "sit back and feel good" kind of drugs, which is why they are classified as "downers"; they are depressants. They persuade your CNS into totally chilling out, which is why you will feel mellow and relaxed. What's not to be appreciated about that if you're sitting at home on a couch?


When a normal person without any mental disorders or any reasons to be anxious is sitting at home on the couch...



Speak Easy said:


> and those who stumble into a wonderland of bliss at a mere 2mg of Klonopin (look it up on erowid.org).


You talking about that "A World Of Mystical Bliss" one? Either that kid found some opiate pharm pills and thought they were Klonopin, or he is a very rare, weird case. Or he just left out, or didn't even realize, that he had GAD, or something.



Speak Easy said:


> Everyone is different.


When it comes to enjoying or not enjoying benzos, there are people with mental disorders and people without them, respectively.

UNLESS the people without mental disorders have healthy reasons to be anxious (driving, beating someone up, sitting at home on the couch _feeling anxious from a stressful day at work maybe_, etc.)

Oh, and don't forget that kid in the trip report. :lol


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



splish6 said:


> Speak Easy-
> The below answers are about benzos, you schooled me on alcohol.


I didn't ask any questions so I wasn't really expecting any "answers", but allow me to "school" you on benzos, then, too:



splish6 said:


> Where'd you hear that? People can take like 2mg of Xanax, black out, and wake up hours later on the floor with their room completely trashed.


Where's the act of violence, though? Who was hurt when the individual trashed his/her room? And do you have a source for that? What really happened? How do you know there was no other drug(s) involved? If he/she blacked out, chances are they wouldn't remember what they took. When I say it doesn't instill a violent tendency, I speak from a strictly pharmacological/chemical viewpoint. Benzos work on GABA (an inhibitory neurotransmitter which pretty much tells your body not to worry). Benzos do not produce more GABA, but simply tell them to work harder. Thus said, more GABA = less anxiety. However, at the same time, more GABA also = sedation/drowsiness, etc (some of the more prominent benzo side-effects). Activation of GABA, if anything, will result in LESS violent tendencies. Like I said, the alcoholic violence stems from dopaminergic stimulation (which benzos simpy do not instill).



splish6 said:


> When a normal person without any mental disorders or any reasons to be anxious is sitting at home on the couch...


I have no idea what you're saying here. You don't think normal people sit at home on their couch? I'm not sure what you're saying. And plus, I would suspect that most benzo-abusers wouldn't be anxiety patients, but "normal" people who either buy the drug or come across it. Why would an anxiety patient abuse their medication? I do not condone drug-abuse. I condone drug-_use_, which is a drastically different way of taking drugs.



splish6 said:


> You talking about that "A World Of Mystical Bliss" one? Either that kid found some opiate pharm pills and thought they were Klonopin, or he is a very rare, weird case. Or he just left out, or didn't even realize, that he had GAD, or something.


Actually, no. I must have not read that one. I merely used the word bliss because I liked it, not because it appeared in that title. And you cannot assume that he found opiate pharm pills, simply because I believe that in that particular story (after now reading it) the individual saw the pills and identified them as Klonopin. The more likely of the potential explanations for his experience would be that he had little or no tolerance to the drug and started out on a fairly high dose (if it was 2mg, I don't know, but that was my example). And how would him having GAD change anything?



splish6 said:


> When it comes to enjoying or not enjoying benzos, there are people with mental disorders and people without them, respectively. UNLESS the people without mental disorders have healthy reasons to be anxious (driving, beating someone up, sitting at home on the couch _feeling anxious from a stressful day at work maybe_, etc.)


What are you talking about? I'm once again confused at your wording. If you're saying that people with mental disorders can't enjoy the euphoric benefits of benzos, you're right and wrong. Your wording is too over-generalizing. I can, Karl can't. So, it's not an all or nothing sort of situation. Please reword the two posts that I couldn't understand, and I'd love to continue "schooling" you, because the more knowledge everyone has, the better off we are.


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## D.B. Cooper (Jul 21, 2006)

Booze and benzos both have GABAa potenating properties. Benzos lack the dopagenic aspect of alcohol that causes all the famous psychotic reactions.


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## splish6 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: re: Does anyone feel like Klonopin is just a sugar pill?*



Speak Easy said:


> I didn't ask any questions


I see one.



Speak Easy said:


> so I wasn't really expecting any "answers"


Because you're one badass prodigy who's impossible to be corrected, huh?



Speak Easy said:


> allow me to "school" you on benzos, then, too:


Oh, yes sir! You know I love it when you try to "school" me on anything!



Speak Easy said:


> When I say it doesn't instill a violent tendency, I speak from a strictly pharmacological/chemical viewpoint. Benzos work on GABA (an inhibitory neurotransmitter which pretty much tells your body not to worry). Benzos do not produce more GABA, but simply tell them to work harder. Thus said, more GABA = less anxiety. However, at the same time, more GABA also = sedation/drowsiness, etc (some of the more prominent benzo side-effects). Activation of GABA, if anything, will result in LESS violent tendencies. Like I said, the alcoholic violence stems from dopaminergic stimulation (which benzos simpy do not instill).





Speak Easy also said:


> Where's the act of violence, though? Who was hurt when the individual trashed his/her room? And do you have a source for that? What really happened? How do you know there was no other drug(s) involved?


I guess what got me going when you said "I wonder why there's no such thing as violence in someone under the influence of benzos" was because I confused "agressive violence" (coming home and beating your wife and kids) with "passive violence" (driving benzoed up and getting in an accident).

But from my experience with recreational benzo use and Jetelka's (over at Drugs-Forum) experience trashing her room, it makes me think the disinhibition from benzos can trump the sedation. It may not be dopaminergic psychosis, but I think "agressive violence" can still come from someone on a high recreational dose of benzos.



Speak Easy said:


> If he/she blacked out, chances are they wouldn't remember what they took.


You wouldn't start getting amnesic effects _before_ you took a benzo.



Speak Easy said:


> how would him having GAD change anything?


People with GAD who are undiagnosed can believe their life is normal (to a certain extent). They then take a benzo and it feels like heaven.



Speak Easy said:


> If you're saying that people with mental disorders can't enjoy the euphoric benefits of benzos


I said the exact opposite.



Speak Easy said:


> So, it's not an all or nothing sort of situation.


My theory is that it is.

People who enjoy benzos ----> Mentallly ill people (GAD, SA, PTSD, etc.) OR mentally healthy people who are in a situation that would normally make them anxious (driving, feeling stressed out after a hard day at work, etc.)

People who can't enjoy benzos ----> Healthy people who have no reason to be anxious (just sitting on the couch is pretty boring for them)



Speak Easy said:


> I'd love to continue "schooling" you, because the more knowledge everyone has, the better off we are.


Nice way to cover your *** from being an arrogant dick.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

Joe, I stand corrected on a daily basis, and then, I take that information and if I'm interested, I'll research it. By the way, I may have asked a question or two, but that should not entail for 4 answers. Boredom, however, may indeed entail for 4 answers to one question. Or maybe, plain ignorance?

You do have an odd sense of humor, though; at what point did I say anything about being a "badass prodigy"? And, if I may ask, who's prodigy? What are you talking about? And one more question (these are questions which you can answer, by the way), do your friends find you "funny"? By the way, the precedent comes to a total of four (4) questions, just in case you feel like enlightening me with your BLISSful knowledge.

Now, I'm not quite sure how extensive your knowledge is with benzos and what not. You have already admitted to benzo abuse, which is wonderful. I mean, who doesn't love a benzo junkie, right? It's not like they're standing in the way of a less severe and more strict American health-care system, right? Wonderful.

You think that aggressive violence can stem from benzo use? Wonderful, buddy. That's your opinion. A little nonsensincal (that's my opinion, by the way), but it's still your opinion. I've used 3 different benzos over the last 2 years and I can certainly tell you that none of them have ever led me to any sort of violent tendency. Of course, everyone is different though, in brain chemistry and psychological tendency, so what may happen for me and/or the majority of the benzo-using population, isn't bound to happen to someone over at "Drug-Forum" (which must be an extremely reputable source, as it's subtitle is 'all about recreational drugs!') Wonderful title; wonderful sub-title; wonderful information! Right? And it's not like drug-abusers have a tendency to have their own psychological/chemical imbalances, which may make them more prone to rage and aggression in times of withdrawal, etc. Trust me, I've been there and I know all about it.

As for your theory, which is something like:

"_People who enjoy benzos ----> Mentallly ill people (GAD, SA, PTSD, etc.) OR mentally healthy people who are in a situation that would normally make them anxious (driving, feeling stressed out after a hard day at work, etc.)

People who can't enjoy benzos ----> Healthy people who have no reason to be anxious (just sitting on the couch is pretty boring for them) _"

A wonderful theory, but it doesn't make sense. Anyone can enjoy a benzo. At a high enough dose, they will feel it. I'm not sure what you're definition of enjoyment is, though, since it's quite a personal definition. Mentally ill people will enjoy benzos because it will make them feel normal, and same with individuals who suffer from situational anxiety. However, a "healthy person who has no reason to be anxious" may not enjoy a benzo for those same reasons, but that really depends on the individual. It doesn't really matter who you are and what you like/don't like, because when you swallow that Klonopin pill, it's still going to do the same thing. Now, unless someone has totally found some sort of elightening sense of being, I don't believe they are totally anxiety-free. EVERYONE suffers from some sort of degree of anxiety. Anxiety is normal, as is depression. They start to become disorders and problems when they occur more of often than not. They are everyday symptoms, otherwise, so I think anyone could find a benefit from taking a benzo, although I am in no way advocating this, since benzos obviously aren't for everyone. People with anxiety disorders are all candidates for benzos, but people who are simply having anxiety because they are anxious for a test or something, really don't need medications, since being anxious before a test is totally normal.

Now, you calling me an "arrogant dick" is just unacceptable. You don't even know me. And if you're that angry over an online forum post, then maybe YOU should be the one taking a benzo, if you know what I mean. Or maybe you should be quenching a junkie thirst with something else. Is it withdrawal? I'm sure withdrawal sucks. SAS isn't a hostile environment, though, and at no point in my post did I demonstrate a hostile tone; I didn't curse or attack, as you chose to do (which is real classy by the way). However, I think you should take your hostility elsewhere; maybe back to that junkie forum that you were talking about. School's out, though. Have a good one, buddy

Take your time thinking up a good rational response to this one, alright? Since, I know you like to take your time replying in posts to make sure they're perfect (although you sort of failed in the last one). I guess I wont be hearing a reply for a good couple days, I suppose.


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## splish6 (Mar 30, 2007)

Speak Easy said:


> By the way, I may have asked a question or two, but that should not entail for 4 answers. Boredom, however, may indeed entail for 4 answers to one question. Or maybe, plain ignorance?


Questions... answers... we were having a discussion! People can have discussions without any damn questions.



Speak Easy said:


> You do have an odd sense of humor, though; at what point did I say anything about being a "badass prodigy"?


A 17 year old writing a novel about teens and drugs. I'm fine with this, you're apparently a damn good writer and experienced in that sort of thing. But you're still on SAS, and for what, helping people? Yes, maybe. But you're stroking your ego while you do it. You talk over everyone's head in a subtle, "I'm a badass" way.



Speak Easy said:


> And, if I may ask, who's prodigy?


What? ...You need a dictionary.



Speak Easy said:


> do your friends find you "funny"?


Who the hell's being funny? If anyone, it's you jacking your ego off.



Speak Easy said:


> By the way, the precedent comes to a total of four (4) questions, just in case you feel like enlightening me with your BLISSful knowledge.


Is that English?



Speak Easy said:


> You have already admitted to benzo abuse, which is wonderful. I mean, who doesn't love a benzo junkie, right? It's not like they're standing in the way of a less severe and more strict American health-care system, right? Wonderful.


Back atcha.



Speak Easy said:


> A wonderful theory, but it doesn't make sense.


Here's another problem of yours. You argue with people and treat them like total ****. Can you give someone some credit for just _thinking_? Can't you see when someone actually believes "the more knowledge everyone has, the better off we are"? No, you can't. You just use that line to cover your egomaniacal bull****.



Speak Easy said:


> SAS isn't a hostile environment, though, and at no point in my post did I demonstrate a hostile tone; I didn't curse or attack, as you chose to do (which is real classy by the way).


And you think adding "(which is real classy by the way)" isn't an attack? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Stroking your ego with this subtle bull ****.



Speak Easy said:


> However, I think you should take your hostility elsewhere; maybe back to that junkie forum that you were talking about.


And take yours back to wherever the hell you came from. I definitely have not "abused" as much **** as you.



Speak Easy said:


> Take your time thinking up a good rational response to this one, alright? Since, I know you like to take your time replying in posts to make sure they're perfect (although you sort of failed in the last one). I guess I wont be hearing a reply for a good couple days, I suppose.


Wow, now you're attacking my SA. **** you.


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## Speak Easy (Jun 27, 2006)

Look, man. You can ask anyone on this board, and they'll tell you that you're wrong about the way you just judged me (I hope). From what I see you're a pretty new poster (not like that matters), but all I'm saying is that you really don't know me. I'm extremely sarcastic, but most people know that and can have a laugh at it. I didn't mean to insult you. I was simply trying to explain to you a subject which I'm quite familiar with (and this isn't me trying to be cocky). I am not a cocky individual. I am not egocentric or anything. I am familiar with benzos. I love psychopharmacology. I read up on this junk everyday. I talk to psychiatrists. I talk to doctors. I read books. I read magazines. I read databases. And why? Cause my life ambition right now, is to become a psychiatrist. I'm taking pre-med next year, in an attempt to someday, become a psychiatrist. So it's more of a passion, and maybe sometimes, I can get carried away with it, and I suppose that may be interpreted as me being cocky, but I'm not at all, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. I think a lot of disaccord was stemming from misconception. For instance, when I said "whose prodigy?" and you replied "what...you need a dictionary?". I was actually asking whose prodigy am I?, which was obviously misinterpreted and ended with further criticism, etc. I just spent 2 hours last night monitoring an argument between two people in hopes that they would both resolve their conflict and become SAS friends. So, don't even attack me from a point of "compassion" or me being an *******, because I'm just not like that. I don't even have SA that much anymore. I lead a pretty normal life. Just wondering, but what gives you the idea that I've abused much more "****" than you? I never abuse drugs. I only use them. I am solely here to help; not get help. Whatever, man, I'm not here to argue, but I'm not here to be disrespected and insulted by someone who I don't even know. If you wanna resolve this over the phone, then I'd be more than happy to trade numbers. I'm open like that would to see thing ameliorate 

EDIT: This is a pretty funny post now that I look back on this post, because I was extremely loaded on my Tylenol 3 that I just got, for my back. I was talking silly. But I look at my posts before that where there is obviously lots of anger, and then this one which is obviosuly peaceful and nice, and can't help but think that there are definitely some aspects to the opiates that need to be altered if they're ever gonna be used as ADs

By the way, Splish, don't disregard all of the above solely because of the fact that I was completely under the influence of an opiate. Disregard only the part about calling each other.


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## splish6 (Mar 30, 2007)

Ok, wow. Let me get this straight. First, you get "extremely loaded" on your Tylenol 3 and write a post that I could definitely appreciate as you backing down and apologizing. You even offered to become friends! Then you say it was a "pretty funny post" and you were "talking silly", which only reinforces your ego masturbation. THEN you tell me NOT to disregard everything in the post!

What the hell do you want me to respond to, dude? In which parts of that post were you "talking silly" and in which parts were you talking genuinely? 


My theory: You only lose your ego problem when you have back pain...


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