# Tried Dating. It Wasn't For Me.



## Cool Ice Dude55 (Jan 7, 2014)

A few months ago I tried to start having a dating life like people at work do. Well, I met up with 3 different guys - and it just reminded me why I've stayed single for so long. It made me realise how much i do really appreciate my own company. Because Honestly, I was so bored on these dates. It was just so much effort for boring dead conversation. It just felt like the biggest waste of time I've ever endured. 

And now I'm confused. I thought dating was gonna change my life and make it better. But i realised, it won't. So now I'm at a loss, and I don't know what to do. I don't even care to have a relationship anymore, because it made me realise a man won't make my life better.

My therapist thinks i should go on more dates. And that I'm so scared of being alone I put up a wall or some ****. But I genuinely don't want to because dating it's not my scene at all, and I realised a relationship won't enhance my life to the extent that I imagined it would.. 

So that was my little venture in the dating scene. :roll Has anyone else tried dating and found it wasnt for them?


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

hm kind of. coffee dates, movies, dinner can be pretty bad dates. had some great and really memorable dates also. it really depends on the person and the activity and the weather and your moods and ... yeah I mean it's really hot or miss.

theres a big difference between "dating isn't for me" and "this person isn't for me" and generally finding dating awkward, and whatever else.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

Totally agree. They're such a anxiety-inducing bore. I'll gladly like go out to lunch or something with somebody who I am friends with and who I have no requirement to pretend to be really super flawless and impressively full of thrilling life adventures. If anything were to be called a 'date', henceforth, I'll probably opt out.


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## Mondo_Fernando (Jun 26, 2014)

Yeah, that fruit is hard to eat.

Oh, are we talking about other dating?

My bad. :b

But seriously I don't think no woman would date me. Just learned to accept it.


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## thomasjune (Apr 7, 2012)

Dating sounds awful. Back in my day (even living with SA) I would just meet people through friends/family or even at work, get to know each other and (a few times) I'd simply just click with someone. By the time we went on our first date, we were already a couple. 
Things seem way more complicated these days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## versikk (Nov 25, 2013)

andy1984 said:


> theres a big difference between "dating isn't for me" and "this person isn't for me" and generally finding dating awkward, and whatever else.


excellent point.

a date for me would involve hiking, going to see a play, or just smoking weed and talking philosophy at a park. going to a restaurant, or coffee shop, or a bar, would be murderous for my soul.

so, @Cool Ice Dude55 , did you in fact go on the kind of dates that are "your style"? if so, i definitely understand what you mean by "it made me realise a man won't make my life better." These past 2 years i have started to understand more and more that a romantic relationship - while definitely injecting a lot of happiness into one's life - is also very likely to be a source of great emotional pain. tho i do believe that for this reason, you have to find someone who really, REALLY, vibes with your personality. in my case, as a hardcore introvert, it would be a nightmare to be together with someone who wasn't a hardcore introvert. i need 2-3 days of total isolation every week (i need to induce a state of mind in which i essentially forget that there is a world outside of my mind), which is impossible as it is, seeing as i have a job, and sometimes i see my family on weekends. i'm afraid that if i had a relationship, i would burn out.

not trying to hijack your thread (ok a little), just want to understand your situation/thoughts a bit better


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

It depends who you date. One day you'll probably meet someone and it won't be boring.

I've been out on boring ones too - but others definitely weren't. When you really click with someone it can be amazing.


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## MCHB (Jan 1, 2013)

I hung up my dating hat several years ago lol.


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## SofaKing (May 9, 2014)

harrison said:


> It depends who you date. One day you'll probably meet someone and it won't be boring.
> 
> I've been out on boring ones too - but others definitely weren't. When you really click with someone it can be amazing.


This...dating is an effort until it's not, with the right person. Sadly it isn't always mutual so you may lose that someone you thought you connected with.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

only 3? that's not going to represent any part of what guys are really like and it was too few to find a "good" one. i think that you've just had 3 unlucky boring experiences with those guys and you are using that as a kind of "well, i tried. look, i tried. no one can say i didn't at least try. all of them were boring or not very good. Ok that's what dating as a whole is. i'm not going to continue" - because it's a "convenient" get-out from trying again because you're just still anxious/shy/reserved. it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. you're using it as a self-protection mechanism to not do it anymore as its something you still feel uncomfy with. you've kind of "proven" that it's not any good to try dating and those 3 were the "proof". i'll go back to being "safe" by not trying anymore. but still, there's a conflict that you don't want to be alone forever. that's a bit illogical, isnt it? you want but you kinda don't but still you kinda do. 

if you had one experience where it was really great, your mindset may change to more positive.


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## Cool Ice Dude55 (Jan 7, 2014)

versikk said:


> excellent point.
> 
> a date for me would involve hiking, going to see a play, or just smoking weed and talking philosophy at a park. going to a restaurant, or coffee shop, or a bar, would be murderous for my soul.
> 
> ...


yeah it would be amazing to find someone that vibes with my personaility. It's just the trial and error of dating that bothers me. I cant be bothered to go on multiple dates to find "one good one". Dating takes so much out of me. I'd rather be single lolz then do that. But yeah I might try it again when winter starts and the winter lonliness kicks in lmao.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah. The few times I did date made me realize why most women aren't interested in me anyway. It was nice for those occasional lonely moments that everyone gets but I have a lot more of those moments where I'd rather just sit and do my own thing than I do those infrequent lonely pangs. 

Most of the time when I was dating I was wishing she'd meet someone else so I wouldn't have to (eventually) tell her it wasn't working out.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Interesting, never tried it, but I think it could a possibility at some point, I'm finding I'm not quite as creepily awkward as I used to be :yay


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## versikk (Nov 25, 2013)

Girl with a pen said:


> Going on dates with strangers sounds absolutely awful, but I'm extremely curious about your therapist telling you that you should go on more dates. What was the reasoning behind that?


All therapist and pdocs have their version of "you gotta get out more"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I need a couple drinks in me to handle dates with strangers. Doing it sober is so ****ing stressful and awkward.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Girl with a pen said:


> Going on dates with strangers sounds absolutely awful, but I'm extremely curious about your therapist telling you that you should go on more dates. What was the reasoning behind that?


1. Self esteem. Might turn out the person is a lot more attractive than they think.
2. Social practice
3. Might be enjoyable, don't know until you try
4. Might find a significant other that brings happiness.

It's mostly a big list of pros. Mostly.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

In the past I mostly met people through a social circle, I guess I did sort of go on dates too though it wasn't with a complete stranger.

I'm not sure they have dating sites for aliens so not sure how that would work out. You have to have your life together more than I do too.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I'm not sure they have dating sites for aliens so not sure how that would work out.


Maybe they exist for shy aliens or ones who lost their spaceship, most aliens just abduct & get straight to the probing : /


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## versikk (Nov 25, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I'm not sure they have dating sites for aliens so not sure how that would work out. You have to have your life together more than I do too.


idk man there seem to be a lot nonbinary aliens walking our planet these days

























Jareth Nebula is a "genderless alien"









Vinny Ohh is a "genderless alien"









i see a lot of interesting things happening in the future regarding gender and its place in Western society.

_on a different note i'm interested whether alien people see themselves as actual extraterrestrials - extreme body modders have been around for a long time (demon people, cat people, lizard people and whatnot) but it's becoming more prevalent and "gender oriented" (?) these days._


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Re dates, looking at things, I weirdly have been on dates without really having noticed they _were_ dates lol.

Girl from gym, who put a note on my car, and we ended up going for coffee. Then we met for a walk by the sea, and at that point I didn't even think of it as a date, then later another walk. I don't know why I didn't think of those as dates though. Girl from univ. I totally accidentally chatted her up, got her phone number, and had coffee with her the next week in lunch break. What's bizarre is I didn't think of any of that as dating. I kinda couched it in "university stuff", like "here's my number if you want me to send you some of the stuff you missed".

etc.

However, if I sit down and think "I am going to start dating", I get imagery of going to restaurants and uncomfortable conversations and all of that ****. I think it's really just going to come down to workng on myself, interacting with more and more people and getting confidence. At some point, I will try _formally_ dating, though.



Persephone The Dread said:


> In the past I mostly met people through a social circle, I guess I did sort of go on dates too though it wasn't with a complete stranger.


I think they did, and I think a lot of people still do, its probably how most people find others. I mean. I have always found it easier to flip friendships over. If you spend a lot of time with someone, and there is attraction there, there really isn't any way it can **** up. The sexual tension just ends up building.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

SplendidBob said:


> Re dates, looking at things, I weirdly have been on dates without really having noticed they _were_ dates lol.
> 
> Girl from gym, who put a note on my car, and we ended up going for coffee. Then we met for a walk by the sea, and at that point I didn't even think of it as a date, then later another walk. I don't know why I didn't think of those as dates though. Girl from univ. I totally accidentally chatted her up, got her phone number, and had coffee with her the next week in lunch break. What's bizarre is I didn't think of any of that as dating. I kinda couched it in "university stuff", like "here's my number if you want me to send you some of the stuff you missed".
> 
> ...


Yeah I've been on dates with people that weren't clearly dates too. It's not great for me though because I've always been socially clueless.

Also one date that became clearly a date but I didn't realise was one to start with. Very awkward. That was actually my first date so I made some mistakes and that got messy because they were emotionally immature and obsessed with me (even though I'd only known them a couple of months.) And I was in a completely different mindset of experimentation.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> Re dates, looking at things, I weirdly have been on dates without really having noticed they _were_ dates lol.
> 
> Girl from gym, who put a note on my car, and we ended up going for coffee. Then we met for a walk by the sea, and at that point I didn't even think of it as a date, then later another walk. I don't know why I didn't think of those as dates though. Girl from univ. I totally accidentally chatted her up, got her phone number, and had coffee with her the next week in lunch break. What's bizarre is I didn't think of any of that as dating. I kinda couched it in "university stuff", like "here's my number if you want me to send you some of the stuff you missed".


So you've ended up in "dates"without even trying? You have some degree of being blessed then. Lol. But what came of those two times? Did it lead to anything more or did they just kinda fizzle out? Be honest!

Anyway, imagine a woman writing some tantalising note and leaving it for you. That goes to show there must be SOMETHING about you that women notice and WILL do something about it, ie approach the man. Then the accidentally getting her number and doing something at university.

I'm sure that I've been in enough places that if that was supposed to happen to me, it would've by now at least multiple times. I Keep hearing all this BS that " im really attractive and so good looking" and that " I should have a GF" and "why haven't I got one" and "it's surprising that someone that looks as good as me hasnt" and I just say "I haven't met anyone yet" neglecting to tell them that yet is never. lol.

I'm sure there must be something about me that women just don't get attracted or even interested. I don't think they hate or dislike, it's just lack of being noticed. It's as if all the good lookingism is getting cancelled out by something I don't know what it is. If I get all these stupid compliments all the time why hasn't it lead to kind of those chance encounters like yours?

Mind you, paradoxically, if I got some note like you described, I'd probably not answer it or be weirded out by it. At least, that's how I imagine I'd react. I don't know, really. Isn't it all strange?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

versikk said:


> _on a different note i'm interested whether alien people see themselves as actual extraterrestrials - extreme body modders have been around for a long time (demon people, cat people, lizard people and whatnot) but it's becoming more prevalent and "gender oriented" (?) these days._


I dunno that's what people complain about online, 'they're everywhere,' but it's just never been my reality. (plus many must be way younger than me,) I'm not in these bubbles and it's all very intimidating anyway tbh.

As for the other stuff I think that's just therian/otherkin stuff being conflated with gender but a lot of people also attach symbolic importance to these things because they feel alienated often related to gender. And they're kind of overlapping phenomenon anyway? That's why in old tribes/cultures these things used to all be connected and seen as Shamanism. Totem animals and androgyny.

It's interesting that there are patterns and that they tend to be cats or reptiles it's a bit like how people tend to see those animals while on dmt or become them? A comedian talked about how he became a cat while on ayahuasca I suspect these are quite deeply imprinted on Human conciousness. And the lizard people conspiracies that's the Human equivalent of cats with cucumbers:

https://@www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI0dqbadPfo

2:05 is the alpha cat.

Also the demon/angel thing makes sense to me, because they tend to be androgynous or genderless. When I describe myself as an alien I don't really mean in that kind of deeper sense it's more just a comment on how weird I am. If anything I'm probably more symbolically attached to mythological figures and demons (and vespertilian people/dragons/plants/merfolk and robots I guess hah, recurring theme in my art/interests a lot over the years.)

As for the specific wave in furry/anthropomorphisation love that mostly comes from prevalence of cartoons + autism I would say and plush toys, since the research shows autistic people find it easier to identify and empathise with cartoons and anthropomorphisation than real people. (There's a study on it but I've already posted it before many times. It honestly explains a lot about the incease.)


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

To be fair I think some women were interested in me the odd time over the years, but I'm bad at the ques, I guess I'm also immature, stubborn, anxious, set in my ways etc you name it.... I also convince myself they must have meant something else & I'm delusional if I get a vibe, to avoid getting out of my comfort zone & having to explain myself about hiding for 20 years...Honestly I think I might be retarded 😞


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Actual dating - as in calling someone to ask if they want to go out and then picking them up and going on a date - is really stressful. It makes me a bit anxious just thinking about it, although I did it when I was young.

Often I seemed to just meet girls at work etc and it would happen that way.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

KILOBRAVO said:


> So you've ended up in "dates"without even trying? You have some degree of being blessed then. Lol. But what came of those two times? Did it lead to anything more or did they just kinda fizzle out? Be honest!


The gym one, yeh, had some sexy funtimes lol. She was good for me, and pretty patient and ok with my mental stuff, and lack of life. Didn't care really about any of that. I am pretty good with women when the intimacy starts, I just struggle with the bit before that. The university woman, no, I think I showed my hand too early there (or my ex did, when I told her about that, we hadn't started seeing each other then). I was definitely trying with her, though, just I sortof didn't realise I had just sat down, and chatter her up, and got her phone number, until a little while afterwards, because I managed to come up with non romantic reasons for getting her number, so she could very easily accept.

That's the thing, I feel its much easier to do this. I would rather go on a non date with someone, and just spend time with them, because I feel its a bit like getting a foot in a door, creaking it open and getting into the next room, then foot in the next door, creaking it into the next room, until eventually you are in a room with a bed in it lol. (something like that). And I figure the less overtly you are coming onto someone from the beginning, the less resistance they will have to saying no.

This is just me thinking out loud really.



KILOBRAVO said:


> Anyway, imagine a woman writing some tantalising note and leaving it for you. That goes to show there must be SOMETHING about you that women notice and WILL do something about it, ie approach the man. Then the accidentally getting her number and doing something at university.


I feel that approaching was unusual, though. She felt it was insanely risky to do, and she was very into casual hookups back then. I am pretty sure at that time I had a few admirers at the gym (sorry, not intended as a humblebrag, just I do believe that), and she was the only one who approached, and not in person. I am, unfortunately, slightly terrifying in person.



KILOBRAVO said:


> I'm sure that I've been in enough places that if that was supposed to happen to me, it would've by now at least multiple times. I Keep hearing all this BS that " im really attractive and so good looking" and that " I should have a GF" and "why haven't I got one" and "it's surprising that someone that looks as good as me hasnt" and I just say "I haven't met anyone yet" neglecting to tell them that yet is never. lol.
> 
> I'm sure there must be something about me that women just don't get attracted or even interested. I don't think they hate or dislike, it's just lack of being noticed. It's as if all the good lookingism is getting cancelled out by something I don't know what it is. If I get all these stupid compliments all the time why hasn't it lead to kind of those chance encounters like yours?


Like I say, the gym one was very rare, and I did totally engineer the other one. Re her, I might be going to visit her in a few weeks, though am certain its just friendly with her (she is seeing someone atm).



KILOBRAVO said:


> Mind you, paradoxically, if I got some note like you described, I'd probably not answer it or be weirded out by it. At least, that's how I imagine I'd react. I don't know, really. Isn't it all strange?


Yes, I was initially extremely flattered, then weirded out, and then, because I was in the midst of exposure therapy, I thought, "eh, **** it, its a proper date, lets do it". I think with all of these things you have to be prepared to just jump. The univ woman was a ****ing huuuuge effort for me, as I literally thought "I havent challenged myself for a while, she is by far the most attractive woman on the course, I should sit next to her and talk to her", then "Ooh, I should say she could contact me if she needs more info, then see what happens", then "should I, shouldn't I, should I" for about 5 minutes before just ****ing doing it.

Maybe in your case you aren't quite picking up on those opportunities. They are rare, and you tend to have to just go all in (difficult as it is). It's not as hard as approaching, but it still means you have to go all in, in situations where you think someone might be interested, but aren't sure (and then anxiety will try to convince you otherwise).

But maybe I don't know **** lol. I am single again now and kinda dreading that whole long slog to find someone else (hence my current frenzied weight loss, and self improvement, because I can't afford to just half arse this, given some of my more unfortunate deficiencies).



Persephone The Dread said:


> Yeah I've been on dates with people that weren't clearly dates too. It's not great for me though because I've always been socially clueless.
> 
> Also one date that became clearly a date but I didn't realise was one to start with. Very awkward. That was actually my first date so I made some mistakes and that got messy because they were emotionally immature and obsessed with me (even though I'd only known them a couple of months.) And I was in a completely different mindset of experimentation.


I share some social cluelessness. Can never quite tell if people are really interested. Am a little bit better now though, I think.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

@KILOBRAVO oh, and another small thing worth mentioning, I feel like relying on women to approach isn't a great idea anyway. Because then you only get to choose from a very small subset of women. I feel like, until I am more confident in my life, my best future approach is going to be expanding my network of female friends (which i do pretty well, when I am placed in repeated proximity to them), and then converting those friendships with women I like. That part I am more confident I can do (foot in the door stuff). That being said, I think I would do better at actually asking women out now, just not from approaching, because **** that lol.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Never been on a date, though I've been in relationships. All of them were with people I was already friends with, and it took several months for the attraction to develop, so I'll never get into a relationship if people are making a decision after one or two dates. I'm about 15+ years too old to be attractive to anyone anyway.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> @KILOBRAVO oh, and another small thing worth mentioning, I feel like relying on women to approach isn't a great idea anyway. Because then you only get to choose from a very small subset of women.


But it's the same on the other side. If generally women refuse to approach, which the reasons for that still are hotly debated as to really WHY they won't/refuse/cant etc, then it causes this outcome:

1) those women are limited to the men that approach them (if any).

So what happens to the women who don't get approached? And there will be some. It's the same predicament as men really if they don't approach. If this "women shouldn't or won't" and "men have to" didn't exist and anyone approached anyone, there'd probably be far less single people around.

For me, I just don't seem to find anyone attractive. It hardly ever has or does happen. (Unless I'm not seeing enough women in a big enough number to statistically get attracted to at least some or I'm genuinely just not attracted to them? I actually can't tell what). Plus, I don't have any real sexual motivation either. That's never been a motivation for me. A prostitute seems so seedy and a weird situation that that's no temptation either. So I wonder if I'm asexual or at least grey asexual. And if so, it's crap. What a crap crap crap orientation to be. Those bisexuals don't know how lucky or great that is cause they can try virtually for anyone. Double the choice of **** or hetero?! I'd wayyy rather be bi than ace or grey ace. Sure, I kinda do *look* at women in yoga pants and admire their butt or legs etc and *know* they are attractive\sexy but it doesn't really spark any urges. Or at least wayyy wayy rarer then what I'd assume it'd spark in a "normal" hetero male. And if they came on to me, I don't know what I'd do. I think I'd actually ignore a note for me on a car. Lol

If you like listening to radio 4, recently there has been 2 documentaries that reported that the number of people remaining single, at least in Britain, is getting more and more across ALL age groups. Another report in another program documented that more and more people across most age bands are going without intimacy and that the general frequency of that is considerably declining. It gave many reasons ,porn surprisingly not actually really one of them, but that one of the reasons was that people are getting more and more picky about what's a decent partner. Also, technology and social media was killing it.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

KILOBRAVO said:


> But it's the same on the other side. If generally women refuse to approach, which the reasons for that still are hotly debated as to really WHY they won't/refuse/cant etc, then it causes this outcome:
> 
> 1) those women are limited to the men that approach them (if any).
> 
> So what happens to the women who don't get approached? And there will be some. It's the same predicament as men really if they don't approach. If this "women shouldn't or won't" and "men have to" didn't exist and anyone approached anyone, there'd probably be far less single people around.


the difference is, there is a much larger pool of men who will approach / initiate. More attractive women wont have issues with men approaching / initiating with them, they get enough that do, that they can pick the men who they prefer. And being realistic, what kinds of men do approach, and are comfortable with women? The ones that have the attributes they want. It's easy for us to just say "they are missing out", but really, they aren't. Confident, functional people are more attractive. Those people take initiative. That doesn't mean they are better than those that dont, at all, its just a flag of confidence.

The less attractive women may need to approach, but typically, they don't either, they just need to mingle with men, and eventually a man will ask them out. It's just how it is.

But for us men, we have the situation of, not necessarily having to approach, but having to take the proactive steps to find someone. We have to do that in order to find someone good enough for us. That's it really. Do we let our anxiety effectively strip us of finding partners at our level? Sitting around and waiting for largely undesirable women to approach? Because more often than not, the desirable ones wont. Personally, though I don't intend to go around doing "game" and approaching women, because its ****ing gross and inauthentic, I do intend to proactively act, because I have to to get what I want, end of story. Either we do what we have to, to get what we want, in the world we live in, or we don't get what we want and we deal with it. This *is* a choice, its an unfortunate, unpleasant choice, but its a choice. (I don't mean just undesirable re looks, btw, though that is the primary determinant of who gets approached, cold. Less so, re when people are communicating with each other).



KILOBRAVO said:


> For me, I just don't seem to find anyone attractive. It hardly ever has or does happen. (Unless I'm not seeing enough women in a big enough number to statistically get attracted to at least some or I'm genuinely just not attracted to them? I actually can't tell what). Plus, I don't have any real sexual motivation either. That's never been a motivation for me. A prostitute seems so seedy and a weird situation that that's no temptation either. So I wonder if I'm asexual or at least grey asexual. And if so, it's crap. What a crap crap crap orientation to be. Those bisexuals don't know how lucky or great that is cause they can try virtually for anyone. Double the choice of **** or hetero?! I'd wayyy rather be bi than ace or grey ace. Sure, I kinda do *look* at women in yoga pants and admire their butt or legs etc and *know* they are attractive\sexy but it doesn't really spark any urges. Or at least wayyy wayy rarer then what I'd assume it'd spark in a "normal" hetero male. And if they came on to me, I don't know what I'd do. I think I'd actually ignore a note for me on a car. Lol


I can't speak for you, but I can tell you that in my own case, this was a defense mechanism that meant I didn't really need to face my fears. Not consciously. I literally didn't find many women attractive. After my last relationship, which basically sorted out a whole bunch of sexual issues I had, I now know 100% I am heterosexual. I love ****ing women. I love their bodies. I find real women attractive, not fake ones, because I have enough sexual experience now to "get it". Again, this isn't any kind of bizarre boast, its just what happened to me. I used to tell H I thought I was asexual, and I struggled to be attracted enough to her in the beginning, but by the end it was absolutely no issue whatsoever. This may apply to you, it might not, but it's probably not the kind of thing you will find out until you drop those standards a bit and see, in reality, what you might find attractive (because what things feel like, and what they look like, even are extremely different).

Just my personal experience though. Just beware, it can be surprising what the mind can do, re sex drive, preferences, all of that.



KILOBRAVO said:


> If you like listening to radio 4, recently there has been 2 documentaries that reported that the number of people remaining single, at least in Britain, is getting more and more across ALL age groups. Another report in another program documented that more and more people across most age bands are going without intimacy and that the general frequency of that is considerably declining. It gave many reasons ,porn surprisingly not actually really one of them, but that one of the reasons was that people are getting more and more picky about what's a decent partner. Also, technology and social media was killing it.


That's actually encouraging for me. Am not at all surprised re porn, its about 5% of the real deal, esp when feelings are involved, its an entirely different experience. Intimacy is almost something I need now, which is why it's so excruciating to have lost it. But also, motivating, perhaps.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Ignore the advice in this thread if you're a woman or otherwise attracted to men. Some won't approach you because they're shy etc, you will have to take the initiative sometimes. 'Every woman can just sit back and men will approach them' is poor advice.

Applies doubly if you're not top 20% of attractive women as most women reading this post will not be. Or if you have niche interests. Or if you're in a majority female environment.

I realise that this is basically a straight man advice forum but just saying.

edit: All the guys who approached me were unattractive and some emotional wrecks, besides one who was very ambiguous about things anyway. You definitely will either have to get your friends to help encourage a relationship or take some steps yourself to try and get more attractive guys (not saying super attractive, be realistic.) If you're not looking for anything serious than this is even more true.


Basically remember that guys here are giving out advice that gets them what they need not what you need don't buy into it. If they're over a certain level of conventional attractiveness than they're on a completely different playing field. They're advising people how to get the top 20% of women and hoping that women who aren't in that group (aka you,) won't approach them. This is not representative. Sometimes you can do better.

And if you can't then try women.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Ignore the advice in this thread if you're a woman or otherwise attracted to men. Some won't approach you because they're shy etc, you will have to take the initiative sometimes. 'Every woman can just sit back and men will approach them' is poor advice.
> 
> Applies doubly if you're not top 20% of attractive women as most women reading this post will not be. Or if you have niche interests. Or if you're in a majority female environment.
> 
> ...


Yeah, besides online dating and bars/nightclubs I've only had a handful of guys ever hit on me or ask me out. Guys seem to think that women get hit on all the time by a wide variety of men. Maybe better than average looking women get hit on a lot but if you are a Plain Jane, nope. Only got a few weirdos on the street and when I went to meetups a handful guys (very few) that I wasn't attracted to at all or they were skeezbags asking out like half the women in the group. The ones that ask you out are not the ones you want.

So being passive and waiting around for Romeo to knock on your door does not work in my experience. I only had much of any luck when I lived abroad and was actively trying hard to meet guys.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

@Persephone The Dread hope not offended you, or given the impression I think women just have to sit around and men will approach them, that isn't how it is at all. Women can't be totally passive, but its men who usually have to do that initiating, that _final step_ of asking her out.

I don't mean this in a weird "cold approach" way, as the internet seems to make people believe is the way people find others. It's in those situations where two people know each other, there is mutual attraction, both parties are interested, its usually the man who is expected to make that _final_ initiation. I have been in lots of situations where women have displayed signs of interest, they invite you to ask them out, without actually saying it, and if you don't they wont, because either they are anxious, or they don't have to.

For both men and women they have to be proactive.

My point here was, women may have that option, or some women may (my ex was one of those women, she just flirts with men, though she would ask them out if she wanted them, tbh). Men typically don't. I wouldn't advise men or women to just sit around waiting to be asked out though.

There are realities here. If we polled people in relationships, its highly likely that in the majority men intiated. That doesn't imply in any way that women can just sit around waiting. Advice for men and women, if you are interested in someone, make that interest known because they likely wont as a lot of people struggle to do this.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

And, its more general opinion really, that applies to both men and women, if you are looking for something in a partner, then you probably need to be actively trying to find those things, because if you are waiting for people to approach, you only have those people to choose from.

Anxiety of finding someone != difficulty finding someone, though they can be easily confused. If anxiety holds you back, man or woman, then you aren't going to find as good a match as you would if you didn't let that anxiety hold you back. 

Talking to myself here, really . Def didn't intend to make this a who has it worse. May be biased in some way due to my recent breakup (as she has zero issues getting men).


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

And I could be totally wrong, as well. Which tbh I would prefer. lol.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

komorikun said:


> Yeah, besides online dating and bars/nightclubs I've only had a handful of guys ever hit on me or ask me out. Guys seem to think that women get hit on all the time by a wide variety of men. Maybe better than average looking women get hit on a lot but if you are a Plain Jane, nope. Only got a few weirdos on the street and when I went to meetups a handful guys (very few) that I wasn't attracted to at all or they were skeezbags asking out like half the women in the group. The ones that ask you out are not the ones you want.
> 
> So being passive and waiting around for Romeo to knock on your door does not work in my experience. I only had much of any luck when I lived abroad and was actively trying hard to meet guys.


Oh yes the only time I was cold approached was in a nightclub where he was asking everyone.



SplendidBob said:


> @Persephone The Dread hope not offended you, or given the impression I think women just have to sit around and men will approach them, that isn't how it is at all. Women can't be totally passive, but its men who usually have to do that initiating, that _final step_ of asking her out.
> 
> I don't mean this in a weird "cold approach" way, as the internet seems to make people believe is the way people find others. It's in those situations where two people know each other, there is mutual attraction, both parties are interested, its usually the man who is expected to make that _final_ initiation. I have been in lots of situations where women have displayed signs of interest, they invite you to ask them out, without actually saying it, and if you don't they wont, because either they are anxious, or they don't have to.
> 
> ...





SplendidBob said:


> And, its more general opinion really, that applies to both men and women, if you are looking for something in a partner, then you probably need to be actively trying to find those things, because if you are waiting for people to approach, you only have those people to choose from.
> 
> Anxiety of finding someone != difficulty finding someone, though they can be easily confused. If anxiety holds you back, man or woman, then you aren't going to find as good a match as you would if you didn't let that anxiety hold you back.
> 
> Talking to myself here, really . Def didn't intend to make this a who has it worse. May be biased in some way due to my recent breakup (as she has zero issues getting men).


Well my frustration wasn't just with you but with a broader tendency people have to discuss this topic + society but yeah your post annoyed me or at least the part where it seemed like you were saying that guys should approach so they can get better women (because if women approach them they will be low quality,) which I agree with but then women on the other hand can secure high quality guys (per own standards,) from the ones who will ask them out. Which isn't my experience.

Well the thing is if you internalise the kind of advice that's given on this forum (and by society,) then it's just not very useful to you if you're dating men as a woman (and some people who have been here definitely have done that, along with leaving the forum in frustration.) 'I don't get approached + men approach = I'm worthless.' Guys have the opposite problem where they see themselves as worthless because they're rejected. But then you're going to internalise the idea that you are an object to be pursued as well and that your self worth is tied to that.

I get that this thread has gone off topic but the OP is also female. And most conversation on this forum seems driven towards talking about men. It's usually taken as a definite conclusion that women here who don't get approached and haven't been on dates are screwed.

Women rarely ask for help on this topic and I honestly don't think that it's because they're _all _ getting into relationships, I think a lot due to having a lower sex drive just learn to not care. When they do care they're always talking about how worthless they are again at least on this forum. There's not much aggression.

At this point though there aren't really enough people here for this to even be relevant tbh but the thing is society tells you to sit back and wait and you're right that a lot of women won't make a move with the guy they like and lose him in favour of someone they like less and it's not because he's more attractive because he made a move, it's purely because they just put up with what they can get.

And I think this is reflected in relationships more broadly, women seem less happy with them. They initiate divorce in the majority of divorce cases too. They post online (when they bother at all,) complaining that the guy they really like isn't asking them out and nobody encourages them to do anything and so since most people hate being rejected, they don't.

So I think the advice to approach and ask out women you're attracted to is useful if you're a guy, but it's also useful if you're a woman (unless you're very attractive and maybe even then, I can't actually speak to that experience since I haven't lived it,) because it seems like there's a (somewhat,) invisible problem where women just select from the guys who approach/ask them out and then settle. Maybe they'll flirt but if he doesn't ask them out they won't take it further. Because why would they do otherwise?

I dunno I probably shouldn't respond to this not long after I watched a video about bride kidnapping which on a global scale is kind of the extreme manifestation of this where they are horrified about being kidnapped and then suddenly 'try and accept it' because it's tradition. I mean what alternative does she have?

There are places with gender imbalances too (many colleges are a good example,) where there are a bunch of women sharing boyfriends, not because they're poly and happy with the dynamic, but because it's the best they can do lol.

And obviously most of the guys in such cultures/environments try to convince themselves that the women are happy. But in more 'developed' places in the world you have more freedom to go against expectations so my advice is that.

Moreover I've actually been told before by a backwards ******* on this forum that the reason (tbf this same poster did say that 'if I were you I'd kill myself' so you know,) I don't find many guys attractive is because they haven't 'pursued me' first. As though the act of doing that somehow makes a guy attractive when from my pov, the only guys I've been attracted to did not 'pursue me.' And being the person I am aggressive pursuits aren't a turn on anyway. I mean there's a reason I'm drawn to people and fictional characters out of reach or who seem uninterested in people romantically/sexually lol.

It reminds me (and yeah other people have pointed this out before) of how the female sex is treated as a hive mind with no variation and whose opinions and desires must be ignored or downplayed in favour of mens. Every woman is a hot, non-anxious feminine woman with no boundary issues who wants some super masculine guy to approach them and if they don't they just need to get ****ed by a guy. Even if they're queer etc.

If they don't act like that they're too aggressive or something (tbh this is just an excuse to post this video because I saw it again recently. Basically off topic but the beginning reminds me)






So yeah it's not just about your post, but yeah the implication I mentioned in the first paragraph did annoy me.

(Sorry this post ended up being longer than I thought it would be.)


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> the difference is, there is a much larger pool of men who will approach / initiate. More attractive women wont have issues with men approaching / initiating with them, they get enough that do, that they can pick the men who they prefer.
> 
> The less attractive women may need to approach, but typically, they don't either, they just need to mingle with men, and eventually a man will ask them out. It's just how it is.


So basically it's easier for women, especially if you're an attractive woman. From what you've said, there's not really two ways about it. Even just above average attractiveness, in the somewhat arbitrary idea of what constitutes attractiveness, it's going to be easier for women than men. They really can just diddle along and not do very much at all (apart from maintain their attractiveness) and men will probably come to them. Sorry, to the people who don't like this idea "who has it easier" but no real effort approaching sounds easier that effort required in approaching.

But what happens to attractive men who don't approach? What happens if a woman sees a guy somewhere and she's attracted to him?. Does she just hope he senses it and he still has to approach? What if he doesn't notice her admirations? If he doesn't notice and she does nothing, nothing may happen. What if he ignores it and she's still after him. Will she eventually have to approach to get some sort of answer? Why haven't I gotten to notice signs from women if I am apparently attractive? Like i said, I've heard this a lot for years that I look good blah blah but I've never been approached (apart from at high school where I wasn't interested lol).

And plus, what do guys do if they can't get intimacy for a very long time or even ever? How many do you think resort to prostitutes? I mean, that's mostly what they are for: to cater to the satisfaction of men willing to pay to get it. How come I don't want to do that? Would a "normal" unsatisfied male tend to be tempted by a prostitute. Would you be? It seems very unsexy and awkward and kinda seedy and underground to me but it would be the easiest way to get your hole ,basically. I don't think or find it remotely sexy or arousing and I'd fear turning up unable to get aroused throwing money away. This adds to my asexuality idea. Asexual or incredibly picky or conditioned to not feel aroused because I know it's going to go unfulfilled? It might be one of those or more but I honestly don't know which one. Lol

I honestly think an asexual woman partner would be the answer at least how I feel currently. All the other stuff like communication and all that other GF/BF stuff, all the other stuff apart from the sex stuff, as far as I know at this point im ok with or would be Ok with. I know I can feel/do romantic stuff. I'm comfortable around women. 99% of my work environment is women and I get on very well with all of them. Lot better than 99% men. Ugh, how boring that'd be. Lol. And they all, as far as I know, like me. We laugh a lot and it's just good. 
An asexual woman wouldn't care about lack of experience because she's likely that herself and I'd be under no pressure to have to do anything. But what if I started to feel sexual towards her after time and she wasn't for having it? Could I get rid of that just by m'bating and everything would carry on as normal? That sounds preferable to being bored and alone forever. The thing is, she'd still have to be attractive. Does it sound bad that she'd have to be aesthetically attractive for the reasons of "I'm going to be seen with her and in a way she's kind of my possession that I want to look good as partly a reflection of myself?" (Bit like having a clean Porsche and not a dirty\ dented Porsche, and deffo not an old battered rusty 1990s fiesta ). So basically it's need to be an attractive asexual woman (where I might have to m'bate to relieve sexual tension) basically because that's a safer option than dissapointing a conventional straight woman because I don't know I'd be able to feel properly sexual. LoL @ you couldn't make this crap up :lol


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

@Persephone The Dread fair enough, and I probably overstated. It definitely wasn't my intention to make it seem like women all get approached, or that they should just sit back and wait. It was more directed at KB as a man, and what to do there. I think everyone should probably be proactive. But also this isn't in terms of how the internet sees things "go up to a woman, do game, get phone number" or whatever. It's more in terms of conversing, mixing with potential partners, and then typically men doing the final initiation. There is a lot that goes into that, all of that, its very not passive, it involves communication, flirtation, body language, and whatever. So its a long drawn out process, but what I mean in this context is that men have to be prepared to act, when those windows appear.

I missed one yesterday at the gym, for example, I hadn't noticed a very attractive woman waiting to use my rack, that left me a really easy opportunity to gently open communication by smiling, asking if she was waiting for it, etc, which lays the ground for future communication in a non overt way.

I dunno if that makes sense, but definitely didn't want to give the impression I think women just have to sit back, or that those who aren't approached aren't desirable. Plus my wording re quality women was off, I meant in terms of what I perceive as quality, that is a certain level of appearance, but its also certain character traits, intelligence, stuff like that. And basically if you sit back as a man, you get no choice, whatsoever (this was more directed at KB).

Also glad you told me I annoyed you  All good. You make a good point.

I can, and often am very very wrong as well, since I just make this **** up lol.



KILOBRAVO said:


> But what happens to attractive men who don't approach? What happens if a woman sees a guy somewhere and she's attracted to him?. Does she just hope he senses it and he still has to approach? What if he doesn't notice her admirations? If he doesn't notice and she does nothing, nothing may happen. What if he ignores it and she's still after him. Will she eventually have to approach to get some sort of answer? Why haven't I gotten to notice signs from women if I am apparently attractive? Like i said, I've heard this a lot for years that I look good blah blah but I've never been approached (apart from at high school where I wasn't interested lol).


Yes. That is exactly what happens. In my experience.

I don't know why you don't get signs, you might just be missing them. I can provide a list of the ones I have noticed, or think I have noticed, I don't know how accurate that is, though.



KILOBRAVO said:


> And plus, what do guys do if they can't get intimacy for a very long time or even ever? How many do you think resort to prostitutes? I mean, that's mostly what they are for: to cater to the satisfaction of men willing to pay to get it. How come I don't want to do that? Would a "normal" unsatisfied male tend to be tempted by a prostitute. Would you be? It seems very unsexy and awkward and kinda seedy and underground to me but it would be the easiest way to get your hole ,basically. I don't think or find it remotely sexy or arousing and I'd fear turning up unable to get aroused throwing money away. This adds to my asexuality idea. Asexual or incredibly picky or conditioned to not feel aroused because I know it's going to go unfulfilled? It might be one of those or more but I honestly don't know which one. Lol


No, I wouldn't probably. I struggle with initial secual desire for women, though I find them attractive, so I do kinda understand where you are coming from, its actually remarkably similar to how I used to feel. I have to basically act for a little while (few weeks), then my body catches up, I get used to their smells, how they feel, and it just feels slightly tingly when I am in contact with them after a while. At this point my body is all up for the sexytime, my sex drive kicks in, I become massively libidinous and so on. I don't know if other men operate in this way. I used to hate my lower sex drive, but these days, tbh, I think its a blessing, because it only seems to ramp up when I need it (a couple of weeks ago at the end of my relationship I was ****ing terrified it would remain that high, because I don't think I could have coped. Fortunately it didn't).


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

SplendidBob said:


> @Persephone The Dread fair enough, and I probably overstated. It definitely wasn't my intention to make it seem like women all get approached, or that they should just sit back and wait. It was more directed at KB as a man, and what to do there. I think everyone should probably be proactive. But also this isn't in terms of how the internet sees things "go up to a woman, do game, get phone number" or whatever. It's more in terms of conversing, mixing with potential partners, and then typically men doing the final initiation. There is a lot that goes into that, all of that, its very not passive, it involves communication, flirtation, body language, and whatever. So its a long drawn out process, but what I mean in this context is that men have to be prepared to act, when those windows appear.
> 
> I missed one yesterday at the gym, for example, I hadn't noticed a very attractive woman waiting to use my rack, that left me a really easy opportunity to gently open communication by smiling, asking if she was waiting for it, etc, which lays the ground for future communication in a non overt way.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree with the fact that guys should approach women they're attracted to and not just wait (as you said in your earlier post,) since the way things are structured are imbalanced towards women not approaching men in most cases (often even when attracted.) I just think that unless you're a very attractive women you have to kind of go after guys (it's probably easier these days somewhat because you can add them on FB or some other social network and then message there. Well it's much easier in college/uni because everyone adds everyone without it seeming weird.) Then, even if you're rejected, it's probably better than just passing up opportunities.

Then again increasing numbers of people (probably all under 25s going into the future,) are just using online dating now and then giving up because it only works for attractive people or casual sex so :/ RIP lol.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Mmm so going by the tone of this thread, I should approach women I'm attracted too & ask for a date cause women like being asked out, jeez that's never gonna happen, that's so far out of my comfort zone it's like the distance between earth & the moon : /


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## Winds (Apr 17, 2011)

Me and a friend was just talking about this the other day. It's like the older I get, the more I realize I may have made the right decision by just chilling and doing my own thing. For others it might be different, but it doesn't seem like I'm missing much.


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

blue2 said:


> Mmm so going by the tone of this thread, I should approach women I'm attracted too & ask for a date cause women like being asked out, jeez that's never gonna happen, that's so far out of my comfort zone it's like the distance between earth & the moon : /


if you're really attracted you wont be able to help yourself. and will probably end up embarrassing yourself if you're anything like me.

anyway all these people not enjoying dates is undoubtedly because they didnt date me yet :teeth


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> [.
> 
> I missed one yesterday at the gym, for example, I hadn't noticed a very attractive woman waiting to use my rack, that left me a really easy opportunity to gently open communication by smiling, asking if she was waiting for it, etc, which lays the ground for future communication in a non overt way.
> 
> ...


Ok, so if that does happen where she's attracted but she won't make a move and he doesn't notice and it ends up petering out or the guy never turns up there again and the chance is gone, what do you think the woman's reaction or thoughts would be? Would or should she feel regret at not initiating? Would she maybe be pissed that the guy maybe ignored her? Or would they take it in their stride as "well, he didn't notice or pretended not to notice cause he wasn't interested. Nuts to him, then"?

A guy missing the chance in the same way, aren't we lead to believe that he should feel daft for missing it and has to go home to another lonely microwave dinner and jerk off later alone and crying feeling like he failed? :Lol. (Because he didn't do the "manly" thing and approach?

How often would men actually notice signs from a woman and ignore or just not encourage it? Because we're all seemingly led to believe that the MALE is horny all the time and would take ANY tiniest chance but i don't believe that. Would a lot of men not respond if they seriously didn't find the woman attractive? Hell, could it go the other way and guys be put off if she was rediculoisly hot and attractive?

I have read that guys sometimes are actually not very good at picking up signs from women.

Ok, Bobby. List your list. Maybe there's some sh!t there I can identify with. We'll see.

****

Your missed gym interaction? Geez, that was an easy chance missed to start something. If that'd been me, I may have talked about whatever (depending on her demeanour: friendly or private) but it would've probably ended with no much more than a few cursory chats about the gym and "oh, you're waiting to use the rack?" and the equipment etc. I

I'd just assume that there's no point in attempting to chatting her up because 1) if she was that attractive, she's probably not single. 2) she's highly probably not interested or attracted to me anyway. (3) she's probably not going to be asexual and it's likely she would end up sexually dissapointed later. 4) too embarrassing to get involved with a sexual woman for her to learn of my inexperience. 5) I'd probably not be strongly enough attracted to her.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

KILOBRAVO said:


> Ok, so if that does happen where she's attracted but she won't make a move and he doesn't notice and it ends up petering out or the guy never turns up there again and the chance is gone, what do you think the woman's reaction or thoughts would be? Would or should she feel regret at not initiating? Would she maybe be pissed that the guy maybe ignored her? Or would they take it in their stride as "well, he didn't notice or pretended not to notice cause he wasn't interested. Nuts to him, then"?


I can't answer that, as am not a woman, plus every reaction would be different. I personally would feel a little bit of regret, but not that much, because you wouldn't know much about the person in question, so it would be like "eh, he was cute and seemed interested, but meh".



KILOBRAVO said:


> A guy missing the chance in the same way, aren't we lead to believe that he should feel daft for missing it and has to go home to another lonely microwave dinner and jerk off later alone and crying feeling like he failed? :Lol. (Because he didn't do the "manly" thing and approach?


I don't think that helps. Plus it fosters a sort of desperation attitude, which is infinitely unattractive. Even if you are desperate, you have to tell yourself you aren't.



KILOBRAVO said:


> How often would men actually notice signs from a woman and ignore or just not encourage it? Because we're all seemingly led to believe that the MALE is horny all the time and would take ANY tiniest chance but i don't believe that. Would a lot of men not respond if they seriously didn't find the woman attractive? Hell, could it go the other way and guys be put off if she was rediculoisly hot and attractive?


I would bet most men:

1. Aren't horny all the time (they aren't).
2. Are horrible at picking up signals
3. Wouldn't approach. There are reasons why you wouldn't approach, other than anxiety. You might be in a place where its not a good idea, makes things awkward. You might not be single. You might be bored of the whole thing. You might not find them attractive and so on.
4. I wouldn't respond if I didn't find her attractive, but I find a lot of women attractive now.
5. Yes, it can be offputting if the woman is extremely attractive.



KILOBRAVO said:


> I have read that guys sometimes are actually not very good at picking up signs from women.


Probably true.



KILOBRAVO said:


> Ok, Bobby. List your list. Maybe there's some sh!t there I can identify with. We'll see.


Speculative list. What I have observed and read.

1. Playing with hair
2. Revealing neck (very attracted)
3. Adjusting clothing
4. Smiling
5. Sneaky looks
6. Moving into proximity, excuses for proximity
7. Signs of anxiety
8. Looking down after eye contact
9. When gazing around a room, a very slight pause when they see you (could mean lots of things)
10. Gazing when they think you aren't looking
11. When you are behind them, turning their head to the side, to see you

In conversation

1. Overly laughing
2. Lots of smiling
3. Excuse for physical contact.

You would notice a pattern of these, a collection. I have noticed that neck revealing and lots of hair fiddling are strong cues (those I have seen in women I have been intimate with). Smiling is very strong cue, and that is more of an approach signal I suspect. Women can do a lot of this stuff without wanting to be approached though, lots of it is unconscious.

All super super speculative and situational. Paying too much attention to this is pointless though, it serves just to boost ego and doesn't really help you. You want to be interacting with women who seem friendly, without attempting to pull them.



KILOBRAVO said:


> Your missed gym interaction? Geez, that was an easy chance missed to start something. If that'd been me, I may have talked about whatever (depending on her demeanour: friendly or private) but it would've probably ended with no much more than a few cursory chats about the gym and "oh, you're waiting to use the rack?" and the equipment etc. I
> 
> I'd just assume that there's no point in attempting to chatting her up because 1) if she was that attractive, she's probably not single. 2) she's highly probably not interested or attracted to me anyway. (3) she's probably not going to be asexual and it's likely she would end up sexually dissapointed later. 4) too embarrassing to get involved with a sexual woman for her to learn of my inexperience. 5) I'd probably not be strongly enough attracted to her.


Well, it was difficult, I think it was more of a hindsight thing. She was lurking around and I only fully noticed afterwards. But it's fine. I am just generally, with both men and women, trying to make small interactions where these opportunities arise. It's not about initiating conversation to try to pull (I don't want to do that in my gym). Small interactions that make people think I am friendly, will help though and conversations will occur.

Re sexual experience, most women don't give a ****. Also, its not like sex is some high level skill that you need mastery of before you can satisfy a woman, its pretty straightforwards. Be careful you aren't summoning up justifcations for avoidance.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> Speculative list. What I have observed and read.
> 
> 1. Playing with hair
> 2. Revealing neck (very attracted)
> ...


Boy, I've been keeping you awfully busy with all the typing answering questions, Bobsy Wobsy.

So that list you have made based on stuff that you've noticed in situations involving you?

Out of that whole list I've not had any of those apart from maybe a few smilings. So that's really successful, isn't it? Lol

I do remember one woman or more a young woman that I kept passing a few times out and about a year or so ago. She always always smiled and gave eye contact when passing which I thought was unusual espec since it was a younger woman who might have been in the (possibly) dateable age range as opposed to old women \grannies that are probably 50+ that seem to do that. It is hard to tell people's ages nowadays and I'm terrible at guessing people's ages from just their appearance.

Anyway, I remember one other incident that she passed me that she gave smiling and eye contact that lasted for about maybe 2 seconds. Then as she passed right by, she deffo stole a decent glance downwards. I'm 95% sure she was looking at my crotch on the way past because that definitely seemed where her eyes went. There may have been another quick glance to the eyes again. Thought that was weird. Women don't really do that sorta thing very much and she didn't do a good job of hiding it unless she was looking at my belt or something. I think I posted about that here and of course I think most people thought she was checking out the d. Lol

Never seen her again, but i didn't find her particularly attractive and she may have been only 18 or so for all I know so not really appropriate age range.

So why wouldn't women rate lack of experience a negative? Would they? Wouldn't they think that the guy would not be very good or not long-lasting because of lack of practice? Anyway. Wouldn't she thnk it was weird or bad or a red flag for a guy to be very inexperience by a certain age? If the woman really really was attracted to the man, then would eventually learning of lack of experience not really matter or could she get surprised and suddenly weirded out? She could have a go at teaching. Lol


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

KILOBRAVO said:


> So why wouldn't women rate lack of experience a negative? Would they? Wouldn't they think that the guy would not be very good or not long-lasting because of lack of practice? Anyway. Wouldn't she thnk it was weird or bad or a red flag for a guy to be very inexperience by a certain age? If the woman really really was attracted to the man, then would eventually learning of lack of experience not really matter or could she get surprised and suddenly weirded out? She could have a go at teaching. Lol


There isn't anything to teach. Actual sex it isn't really that involved. Plus I am pretty sure most men aren't very good intimately.

Women are all different, ofc, but idk. She might think it was a red flag, but again, not all women are the same, and you should be careful not to place all other men above you in terms of general quality. So you don't have sexual experience. Other people lack in other areas. Everyone has some **** ****ed up about them, believe me.

With this stuff, ask yourself "would this bother me in a woman?" and then "how much would it bother me, would it be a deal breaker?"

So basically, you find an attractive women you are interested in, she seems really nice, you are drawn to her physically (pretend, in this case), are you going to be put off if she isn't very practiced at sex? (given that within a few weeks of sex she would be basically up to scratch anyway, or as good as 80% of the rest of women). Because like any skill there is a cap, and most people are basically average at _everything_. Take kissing. People can be married for years, and ****ing terrible at it. /shrug. Plus when two people get together, the sex usually isn't that amazing anyway, it takes a while of getting used to the partner.

Re signs of attraction and me, I have had all of those, but some are anxiety lol. Now I am losing weight again I am getting more hair stuff, so I know my attractiveness is going up again. I tend to get a lot of those slightly paused looks now (that could be cos im just distinctive tho lol), but the hair stuff matches up so much to my bodyfat, I am very sure thats a good signal. The neck reveal, like I say, is very revealing.

Looking after passing I rarely get, but would think that's a very strong sign of attraction.

A lot of these you might not notice, though, they are subtle and you need to keep your eyes peeled. An alternative as well is that they are just signs of anxiety, because I scare people lols.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> The less attractive women may need to approach, but typically, they don't either, they just need to mingle with men, and eventually a man will ask them out. It's just how it is.
> .


Was just thinking. I know 4 women in their 40s who are unmarried and single. I know of 3 that , as far as I know, have been single and haven't had a partner for years. As far as I further know, those 3 have never been with a man or a partner.

1) lives along my street. In her mid-40s??? She stays with her parents who are in their 80s who I believe overly namby-pamby her. She is actually quite attractive, nice womanly figure, well-dressed. Has a decent job to where she would be able to move out and have her own place. Never known her to have or have been anywhere near a man.

2) is the daughter of one of my other coworkers. The mother is in her mid-70s. The daughter lives with her. Guess she must be mid-40s. Haven't seen the daughter but she works and as far as I know hasn't been near a man either.

3) another mid to slightly later 40s woman I know from a previous social group. Nice person. Looks reasonably attractive. Takes care of fitness. Out and about jogging, (gym?) And working. Always says hi/talks. Again, never ever heard of her being with a man. (She has a brother in same position ironically. )

4) another woman I know lives in the street. Is actually again reasonably attractive. Nice blonde. Looks again 40s. Lived along here for years but always seems single. Only seems to have pets for companions. Again, another longtime single woman.

So despite those woman all being not recluses and all being in range of at very least or above average attractiveness, (3 out of 4 as I've only seen 3) how come they are all still perpetually single or have been for so long? Could they be incels and are women who just don't get approached, or could they be just telling men to p-off or giving off signals that out men off? Is it maybe unusual?


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

@KILOBRAVO I more meant there, the men typically make the final move, tho reading it back it looks like "less attractive women get men approaching them". Its more, when men and women mingle, and interact, the actual asking out falls on the man.

Re those women in their 40's, they sound great to me lol. Can you introduce me? Hah.

I actually had a woman today potentially initiate something. But I would have to do the asking. Woman who works in the coffee shop I go to.

1. Remembered my face, said "you used to come in here" and said she couldn't remember my name, but could my face.
2. We chatted a bit, I talked about univ, she talked about how she studied at my univ a few years ago, but life got in the way
3. Told me her age, that she had 2 kids (30). .
4. The important bit, as I was leaving, I said "see you later" and she said "oh Rob, I forgot to ask, what is it you are studying?". So back in for more conversation.

I wasn't getting any "hair work" from her though, but she has always been v friendly, and the reinitiating convo I haven't seen before. I wouldn't want to start anything with any women atm tbh, but I might go back in there a little more for convo practice.

Whats ****ing crazy tho is (if you have read about my breakup), _randomly_ H was in Tesco. It ****ing sent my anxiety through the roof, I wandered about a bit to make sure she saw me, but we didn't make eye contact. The profile pic she posted on FB 3 days after I said we couldn't be friends was a message for me. It was a "**** you". Which is fine.

Still think she will break my no contact in around 3-5 more weeks. I don't think I want to get back with her any more.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

SplendidBob said:


> @KILOBRAVO
> 
> Re those women in their 40's, they sound great to me lol. Can you introduce me? Hah.


We'll 1 and 4, I think you'd get nowhere with. 1 passes me quite a lot in the street because we're nearly but not quite next door neighbours. Never never any eye contact, hi, smile. In fact, I think it'd be more of a scowl you'd get if you tried. She works in a nursery school so I bet she only deals with woman and kids and no men. Could be asexual or a lesbian for all I know. I don't know but I don't think she's for having any male communication apart from her father. She's 40-somethimg and they're 80-somethimg.

No 4. Kinda the same. Pass less frequently. Absolutely not for saying hi, smiling, eye contact. Nothing. I've tried it thinking my good looks might interest her but no. so both 1 and 4 giving out a lot of signals (the lot being a total lack of acknowledgement you exist) that they're not for having it. Maybe I'll try asking about her dog or cat or something like that if the chance is appropriate and see if i can coax something. Maybe she doesn't realize I'm a neighbour. Altho, she's been there with her cat or dog when I've came out my front door and gate and she's like right there....nothing. lol

Don't know anything more about 2.

No 3. Again, gives me impression she could maybe be asexual or just not interested maybe? As far as I know, she's still single in her 40s. But have never seen her with a man or never heard of it.

I just get the feeling that if those 4 wanted a man/partner they'd have one by now or at least have a history.


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