# The Bible... Religion...



## RestlessNative (Jun 17, 2014)

I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.

Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell? 

Jesus had a beautiful message and it's just been [email protected] on, really.

How do I understand the Bible? How can I beliave what it says? How can it be used for good instead of evil? Why would I wish to follow a religion that tells me I'm going to hell? 

Christians twist things from the Bible to their own convenience.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

RestlessNative said:


> I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.
> 
> Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell?
> 
> ...


Secular nations are not better than Sharia and the church.

Religions is not dark. Its you people that want it to be dark. Igoring all the good stuff and just seing the bad stuff, you can do the same with secularism.

Again, you only cherrypick. God is not angry all the time, sometimes he punish people sometimes he does not. You cannot judge god like you judge a human. The funny thing is that you are not against the police to punish people....but god can not??

innocents to hell? Where does it say that.

well hello, according to christiantiy jesus IS god.

you understand bible by study it.

all religions have "hell" in some kind of way....nobody tells you to follow christianity, choose what you want.

everbody twist things to their own needs,


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Friend, you have good questions that many people ask. There is no confusion in The Bible because God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). God did not invent religion, because religion sets rules but Christ sets you free. Yes God does get angry friend, but He's also love, kind, just, holy and the righteous judge of the world. He doesn't send people to hell for no reason or because they don't know Him. God sends sinners to hell for breaking His holy Law the Ten Commandments. Those who reject the free gift of eternal life which is in Christ only will spend eternity in hell. But that is not God's will for people to go to hell for eternity. He wants every one to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). There is nothing evil about God's Word, because God is truth. When you hear people say that The Bible is false, evil, full of fairy tales, it is coming from the enemy (Satan). Jesus Christ came into the world to die for sinners like you and me on the cross. He was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead on the third day. The word of God says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). That includes you and me. As a sinner you owe a penalty for breaking God's law the Ten Commandments, and that punishment is eternity in hell. Since God is the righteous judge of the world and will judge the world in righteousness and in truth. He has to do what is right and that punishment is eternity in hell. But their is good news my friend, Jesus Christ paid your fine in full on the cross by shedding His innocent blood. If you will come to Jesus Christ by faith and accept Him as your personal Savior, you will have the free gift of eternal life. You will then come into a relationship with God, which He so much desires with you and not a religion. But you must come on God's terms, not yours. Feel free to message me, if you have any questions.


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## causalset (Sep 11, 2016)

RestlessNative said:


> I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.
> 
> Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell?
> 
> ...


Bible and organized religion are two very different things. When you talk about organized religion, there is no question in how to interpret what a given church teaches on its pamphlets, you know exactly what it teaches if you know how to read. In case of the Bible there are tons of different interpretations, which is why we have so many different denominations all claiming to be Bible based. So to me Bible is much closer to an interesting research (be it a research into mind of God or research into archaeological documets -- depending on your faith) but not anything organized at all. Oh by the way I know that liberals are using this as an excuse to be liberal. I disagree with this (I am conservative FYI) I think the fact that Bible is an interesting archaeological research should be utilized for the purposes of objective theorizing as opposed to promoting liberal agenda.


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## Mc Borg (Jan 4, 2008)

Because people read it literally and think it's inerrant. People need to drop those ideas and read it within the context of the modern world/ethics/science. That's why we still have people who are anti-homosexuality. Science shows us that it's just another normal part of human nature. People are too afraid to look at the text and say "Okay, they got it wrong/" and admit that it was written by fallible men. Something that I find odd about Protestants as they have no problem denying church/papal authority, but are perfectly fine with _sola scriptura_. Martin Luther came _1500 years_ after early Christianity. They have no problem accepting that the church wasn't infallible (something that was standard Christian belief prior to the Reformation) but still attach themselves to the idea of an infallible text. An idea that spawned _countless_ different denominations I might add.

People are just too afraid that they'll go to hell if they question the bible/God. An infinitely more knowledgeable being than us very faulty humans, is going to know more about the human condition than we could possibly imagine. Do people honestly think he'll really send people to hell for _belief_ in a false proposition? And not only that, a false belief that is a product of environment and other factors, something that people have no control over. Something that even a child would see as obviously unjust. Once people realize this is absurd, they'll finally wake up.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

I`ve always wondered how many of the, and lets face it, ridiculous stories in the bible that religious people believe - arks, whales, snakes, creation - which ones are deemed to be metaphor's etc and which ones are supposed to be true ? do true ones become metaphors once it becomes so ridiculous to believe no one would take you seriously ?


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Idk I do believe in the bible but the interpretation is the tough part.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

Hello @RestlessNative.  http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f38/why-the-trinity-is-wrong-1907794/ Please check out my thread.

Now the Bible says God is a loving God. But how can you love someone if you send them to a place of torment? If you saw a father doing extreme punishment to his son for something, would you like that person? Would you care if they didnt like you back? Let's examine what Hell is.

Encyclopedias - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Hell
HELL
hel (see SHEOL; HADES; GEHENNA)

3. Gehenna:

Besides the above uses, and more in accordance with the modern meaning, the word "hell" is used in the New Testament in the King James Version as the equivalent of Gehenna (12 t;*Matthew 5:22,29;*10:28, etc.)

The original Greek word for Hell is Gehenna. Gehenna comes from Hebrew word meaning Geh Hinnom. Meaning Valley of Hinnom. The Valley of Hinnom is right outside Jerusalem. It was used by Israelite kings to do children sacrifice.

31"They have built*the high*places*of Topheth,which*is in the valley*of the son*of Hinnom,*to burn*their sons*and their daughters*in the fire,which*I did not command,*and it did not come into My mind.*


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

The following scripture tells what happens after Armageddon. Every dead person will come out of their tomb stone to live again. (even the good people! But how could they do this if when people die they're resurrected to heaven? But I won't go over that, it's a different topic) Evil people are given a second chance here. If they don't change they go back to dust again. This is the second death.

25*Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear*the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.*26*For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life*in himself.*27*And he has given him authority to judge*because he is the Son of Man.
28*“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming*when all who are in their graves will hear his voice*29*and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

BTW if Jesus was God how could the Father grant him life and have to be given authority over something?


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## sad1231234 (Jul 10, 2016)

The Bible might be fake. Its packed with violence, etc, and the way it was written, it seems like it was written by some ancient, primitive people trying to control their society by introducing "divinely ordained" morals and laws. I've always been a Christian but some of the verses really have me doubting the Bible's authenticity. Im sure theres probably a God or Intelligent Designer/s though.


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## sad1231234 (Jul 10, 2016)

ljubo said:


> Secular nations are not better than Sharia and the church.
> 
> Religions is not dark. Its you people that want it to be dark. Igoring all the good stuff and just seing the bad stuff, you can do the same with secularism.
> 
> ...


Its a little hard to ignore verses in the bible where it says you can beat the **** out of your slaves and get away with it. And then it says for slaves to obey their masters with fear. The verses also lean towards supporting inequality of gender and social statuses. All this and more suggests that the writers of the bible were ancient, primitive-minded people trying to control their society, rather than a loving, perfect God.


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## Barakiel (Oct 31, 2013)

Andres124 said:


> There is no confusion in The Bible because God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).


I think the latter could be true. But even going by a traditional view of the Bible, you still have to accept that you're reading a collection of various books written by at least a dozen or so different authors, who were sometimes centuries apart.

There's definitely some confusion when one compares the God of Jonah who stresses the innocence of animals and those who "cannot tell their right hand from their left" with the God of Samuel who orders the death of every last Amalekite, including the infants and creatures who are supposed to be innocent...


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

sad1231234 said:


> The Bible might be fake. Its packed with violence, etc, and the way it was written, it seems like it was written by some ancient, primitive people trying to control their society by introducing "divinely ordained" morals and laws. I've always been a Christian but some of the verses really have me doubting the Bible's authenticity. Im sure theres probably a God or Intelligent Designer/s though.


Slavery was something already set in law of those ancient civilizations. God did set some laws on it where owners couldn't beat thier slaves to death, but he didn't interfere with it. If you remember after he turned away Adam and Eve, Satan said humans should be able to rule over themselves.

Don't doubt the authenticity doubt the teachers. How could Jesus have been the first creation and God? If Jesus and the Father are the same person why did Jesus have to be given authority over the angels? Why does the Father have to grant him life? How does any of this make sense when the Catholic church says they are the same person?


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## RestlessNative (Jun 17, 2014)

Those with thoughtful replies, thank you very much for taking the time. I have read all your commets but don't have the time to reply to you all seperately. 

I might ramble a bit and I'm tired and stressed at the moment so bear with me.

I know a lot of Christians mean well but it's just completely impossible for me to believe in some of the things you say. It goes against every fibre of my being to be a 'conservative' Christian. 

I mean, if I had to explain where my beliefs were at I'd have to say I'm left-wing. I feel that in some ways society is decaying but in many, many ways it is improving. This is because people are becoming more accepting of difference, within race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc. 
I suffer from depression but consider myself an optimist. And I'm a very positive person most of the time, and to take on what Christianity is telling me to would take that from me.

My mum and dad divorced when I was very young and I grew up with my mum, so I'm influenced by her beliefs more so than my dad's. My dad grew up in a Catholic family and has a lot of the black and white views from that, and my mum and her mum (my nanna) have always been very open minded and spiritual and loving which I feel was a much more healthy influence.

I guess what makes sense to me is that I do not believe in discrimination, and will accept anybody's beliefs so long as they do not condone violence, discrimination within race, gender, etc., hatred, all that.

I don't feel that I should have to try to 'convert' people into religious conservatives. Life is a personal journey and I'll just focus on mine. What I believe is important to me and is harmless to others.


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## sad1231234 (Jul 10, 2016)

Kovu said:


> Slavery was something already set in law of those ancient civilizations. God did set some laws on it where owners couldn't beat thier slaves to death, but he didn't interfere with it. If you remember after he turned away Adam and Eve, Satan said humans should be able to rule over themselves.
> 
> Don't doubt the authenticity doubt the teachers. How could Jesus have been the first creation and God? If Jesus and the Father are the same person why did Jesus have to be given authority over the angels? Why does the Father have to grant him life? How does any of this make sense when the Catholic church says they are the same person?


God(his views, morals and laws) has been the same, is the same, and will always be the same. The bible states my previous sentence as a description of God's character. Then why is God smiling upon us nowadays and leading us to righteousness and telling us to love people, when in the past, he was content with people beating their slaves, selling their daughters, killing infants, etc?

I doubt the writers. I doubt whether the scriptures are the divinely ordained commandments of God or if the Bible was written by people. Jesus being the Son of God doesnt exactly make much sense either...

I mean, come on, two people eating a fruit which brings evil into the world? That sounds like some kind of ancient myth or something. It is so obviously not inspired by God. I do believe that a God might exist, though.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@sad1231234 The Bible is Gods word, but he used man to write it.

16*All Scripture is God-breathed*and is useful for teaching,rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Isaiah learned from God that a man named Cyrus would overthrow Babylon.

45*"This is what the*Lord*says to his anointed,
****to Cyrus,*whose right hand I take hold*of to subdue nations*before him*and to strip kings of their armor,to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:
2*I will go before you*and will level*the mountains[a];I will break down gates*of bronze
****and cut through bars of iron.3*I will give you hidden treasures,*riches stored in secret places,so that you may know*that I am the*Lord*the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

And guess what, 200 years later it happened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Babylon

Before people were able to photograph the earth many believed the earth was flat, or was held by a ox. But the Bible said different, and how could the writers have known it if God didn't tell them?

7*He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
22*He sits enthroned*above the circle of the earth,and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens*like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent*to live in.

The Earth hangs upon nothing and is a circle.


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

ljubo said:


> Secular nations are not better than Sharia and the church.


Secularism allows freedom of belief. How is it not better than Sharia law?



> Religions is not dark. Its you people that want it to be dark. Igoring all the good stuff and just seing the bad stuff


If something has bad and good things at the same time then it's definitely neither black nor white, right?



> Again, you only cherrypick. God is not angry all the time, sometimes he punish people sometimes he does not. You cannot judge god like you judge a human. The funny thing is that you are not against the police to punish people....but god can not??


Except the police is under the State and it must give explanations when something goes wrong.



> everbody twist things to their own needs


That's why debate is necessary


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Barakiel said:


> I think the latter could be true. But even going by a traditional view of the Bible, you still have to accept that you're reading a collection of various books written by at least a dozen or so different authors, who were sometimes centuries apart.
> 
> There's definitely some confusion when one compares the God of Jonah who stresses the innocence of animals and those who "cannot tell their right hand from their left" with the God of Samuel who orders the death of every last Amalekite, including the infants and creatures who are supposed to be innocent...


God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the same God in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. God knows what is right, we don't tell Him what's right because He knows best. Friend, The Bible was not written by mere men, it is no private interpretation. The Holy Ghost inspired 40 different authors to write down God's word. The Bible is the world's history book.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

"The Bible is the world's history book"

The animals went in two by two, hurrah! hurrah! The elephant and the kangaroo...


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## sad1231234 (Jul 10, 2016)

Kovu said:


> @sad1231234 The Bible is Gods word, but he used man to write it.
> 
> 16*All Scripture is God-breathed*and is useful for teaching,rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
> 
> ...


Slavery wasnt the only law set in ancient times. So was idol worship. It is ridiculous to support slavery. I refuse to believe in a religion which allows people to sell their daughters as slaves, marry their rape victims, and beat their slaves to death only to pay a small fine of about 30 shekels(God really respects human beings)

Try looking at the bible prophecies which didnt come true. The ancient greeks later on believed that the world was round, and God didnt tell them. Also, a circle is not necessarily a sphere.


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## Mc Borg (Jan 4, 2008)

Andres124 said:


> God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the same God in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. God knows what is right, we don't tell Him what's right because He knows best. Friend, The Bible was not written by mere men, it is no private interpretation. The Holy Ghost inspired 40 different authors to write down God's word. The Bible is the world's history book.


So you think a God that commands:

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Is logically equivalent to a God that commands:

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

?


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@sad1231234 Can you provide scriptures for what you said so I can explain them? And what Bible prophecies didn't come true?
@Andres124 Except the creation of the Trinity was a private interpretation made by the Catholic church. Its not real. Why believe something that can't trace back it's origin before the 4th century? We have proof these days that the Trinity wasn't taught in early churches. Private interpretation seen below,

51*In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin: "substance", "person" or "hypostasis", "relation" and so on. In doing this, she did not submit the faith to human wisdom, but gave a new and unprecedented meaning to these terms, which from then on would be used to signify an ineffable mystery, "infinitely beyond all that we can humanly understand".


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Mc Borg said:


> So you think a God that commands:
> 
> Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
> 
> ...


Much of the sermon on the mount was directed against the Pharisees because of the way their teachings contradicted the Torah. This guy in the video talks about some of that starting around 3:30.




These kind of teachings are found in the OT, example from Exodus 23 


> "You must not pass along false rumors. You must not cooperate with evil people by lying on the witness stand.
> *2*"You must not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you are called to testify in a dispute, do not be swayed by the crowd to twist justice. *3*And do not slant your testimony in favor of a person just because that person is poor.
> *4*"If you come upon your *enemy's* ox or donkey that has strayed away, take it back to its owner. *5*If you see that the donkey *of someone who hates you *has collapsed under its load, do not walk by. Instead, stop and help.
> *6*"In a lawsuit, you must not deny justice to the poor.
> ...


On the punishment of the Midianites a christian apologist perspective here...
http://christianthinktank.com/midian.html


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## Mc Borg (Jan 4, 2008)

Cool. I'll have a look at those later on when I have a chance. Although, I used to be really into apologetics/theology/philosophy of religion, so I think I may have an idea of what those arguments are going to be. I never found any of those justifications convincing and they tend to be ad hoc or contrived. I'll let you know what I think.


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## porter (Jan 22, 2016)

RestlessNative said:


> I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.
> 
> Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell?
> 
> ...


The bible does not tell you this, the teachers, scholars, pastors, preachers and "Pharisees" of our time have told you this. Your first two sentences reminded me of these bible quotes.

Mat 23:13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces; for you neither enter yourselves, nor do you allow those who are about to go in to do so.

The Pharisees of our time still do this, and it turns away many from learning the truth about the love of God.

Mat 23:14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you swallow up widows' houses and for a pretense to cover it up make long prayers; therefore you will receive the greater condemnation and the heavier sentence.

This is why teachers and preachers need to be careful with what they say, because they will be held accountable and judged more harshly if they mislead us.

Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you travel over sea and land to make a single proselyte (convert), and when he becomes one [a proselyte], you make him doubly as much a child of hell (Gehenna) as you are.

Jesus had some harsh things to say about the religious leaders of that time, and I believe what He had to say to them applies to our time just as much, as Jesus does not change.

As to the second part of your OP; how do you understand the bible? You study it. Don't just read it, but actually study it like you would study for an important assignment. That means comparing words and ideas, dividing the truth, looking up definitions and cross referencing from one translation to another. Most importantly, ask God to give you understanding, then hope and pray that His will be done.

Don't believe everything you hear, question everything and make an effort to learn for yourself.

1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; 
1Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

If your really interested, have a look at this paper. https://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Short excerpt below.

*TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD
**"None of the wicked shall understand; but the Wise shall understand" *(Daniel 12:10)

_In this paper I'm going to briefly outline just twelve truths of Scripture from many that God has shown me over the years. I try to apply these truths to all subjects that I write about. More than just truths, I look upon them as spiritual commandments from God, absolutely necessary in rightly dividing the Word of Truth. My hope and my prayer is that God will grace you with a spirit of wisdom to comprehend these marvelous revelations of Scripture.

_ _I have received countless emails over the years in which my detractors inform me that the Scriptures are easy to understand: all one has to do is read them.

_ _That's not true. Billions of Christians "read" the Scriptures, but have not a clue as to what they mean. And one of the biggest problems in not understanding what they have read is that they do not believe the Scriptures. And why don't they believe? Because their shepherds have deceived them into believing that Christian doctrines take precedent over the Scriptures.
_
_I know of not one Christian doctrine that is completely Scriptural. Not one. And that includes, SDA's, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and every other institutionalized church and denomination of manmade creeds. These truths that I am presenting here are "creed busters." They destroy the doctrines of men. They make the wisdom of religion look incredibly stupid. God's truths are like treasures hidden in a field. We must buy the field and then diligently search out the treasure. The following twelve truths of Scripture could make you very spiritually wealthy._


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Kovu said:


> @sad1231234 Can you provide scriptures for what you said so I can explain them? And what Bible prophecies didn't come true?
> 
> @Andres124 Except the creation of the Trinity was a private interpretation made by the Catholic church. Its not real. Why believe something that can't trace back it's origin before the 4th century? We have proof these days that the Trinity wasn't taught in early churches. Private interpretation seen below,
> 
> 51*In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin: "substance", "person" or "hypostasis", "relation" and so on. In doing this, she did not submit the faith to human wisdom, but gave a new and unprecedented meaning to these terms, which from then on would be used to signify an ineffable mystery, "infinitely beyond all that we can humanly understand".


Friend, the Godhead is in The Bible and I showed you Scripture proving it in your threads. I'll give you the Scriptures again so you can do your studying: Zechariah 12:10 (shows that God the Father was going to be pierced in Jesus Christ), Micah 5:2 (tells us that Jesus Christ is the eternal God), Hebrews 1:8 (shows that Christ is God), 1 John 5:7 (this verse clearly shows us the Godhead, The Father, The Word (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Ghost), Genesis 1:26 (God clearly says, "Let us make man in our image", which goes to show the Godhead, that God is one but He is not alone but the whole Godhead is with Him, even in the day of creation). So you telling me that it is an invention of the Catholic church, I disagree with you, it's clearly in the Scriptures. I do agree with you that the Catholic church did invent the word "Trinity" since it's not in The Bible, that I do agree. But you saying that the Godhead is an invention by the church is a lie, The Scriptures I showed you friend shows that God is three persons one God.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness."

Abracadabra !


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## RestlessNative (Jun 17, 2014)

@porter

Thanks a lot for your reply, that was the kind of reply I was asking for I suppose. I do plan to start reading the Bible, I've got a couple copies at home. I realise I need to study the Bible myself and take what I will from it, from my understanding.


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## porter (Jan 22, 2016)

RestlessNative said:


> @*porter*
> 
> Thanks a lot for your reply, that was the kind of reply I was asking for I suppose. I do plan to start reading the Bible, I've got a couple copies at home. I realise I need to study the Bible myself and take what I will from it, from my understanding.


Your very welcome RestlessNative. And if I may add a couple more tips that may help you understand the bible better: Pay attention to ALL the words, find and match passages that are alike. Reason being, it takes at least two "witnesses" to establish a truth. Quite often you will not see our religious leaders and teachers provide at least two spiritual matching witnesses to what they might consider the truth, which enables them to make stuff up thereby misleading us.

An example of providing two or three witnesses.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Rev_11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

It's pretty amazing what you can see and hear when you put like Scriptures together, like the one below.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (hades) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If you pay very close attention to all the words you can see how similar they are in subject matter. Now if God gives you "eyes to see and ears to hear" you might see something quite unexpected and brilliant even. But I wont try to interpret it for you, although I can say that it is very obvious to me what the ultimate destiny of all mankind will eventually be just based on those two passages.

If you have any questions or comments please feel free to pm me if you like.

Peace & God bless.


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