# Why does God allow hurt and pain to the people he loves?



## Your Crazy

I was just pondering about how I've felt like a depressed empty shell of a human being with no confidence or self-esteem since the young age of 9, and was wondering if God loves me so much, why am I going though this? 

Also, why are there starving counties? Why are there storms and earthquakes that kill hundreds of thousands of people who are mothers, and siblings, and children, that in most cases some of their families would be devastated without?

I'm not saying that I've stop believing in God, but I feel like I'm leaning towards it, as much as I hate saying it. I just don't understand how he can just sit back and let 95% of the world to be in so much sadness and hurt.


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## laura024

Without pain, there would be no compassion. And without the bad things in the world, we wouldn't appreciate the good things. The hurt ultimately makes us stronger and better people.


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## Sunshine009

I'm not saying I agree with all pentocostals but they say that it is our responsibility to pray. Jesus gave us that power and mandate. "whatever bound on earth, is bound in heaven, and whatever loose on earth is loosed in heaven" - interpeted as that we need to pray first. The devil is always trying to hurt people. It is not God, He cares but He only acts when we act. Personally I don't like the screaming/yelling type of thing some do, but I believe in prolonged prayer meetings although I don't pray like that, I pray with self-control, I may and will pray with them for sometimes no one else is taking it that seriously. The urge to yell prayers is the beginning of wanting a to be a serious prayer, but I wouldn't stay there. Don't have to yell to be bold, but danged if I would tell one of them to calm down. No freakin way..


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## dax

"I send you out as sheep among wolves"


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## brokenlight

At least you are being honest. I have been there too. The way I see it now, if God can allow Himself in the person of Jesus Christ to be born into this world knowing the pain and death he would suffer, then I can trust that when I or others go through bad or horrible things, it is not because God is not good or that he is lacking control or concern about our welfare. Think of how important and loved Jesus is and that he wasn't spared suffering.


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## Neptunus

I think it's a random "function" of the Universe. Unfortunately, the impoverished country of Haiti happens to be on a fault line...but so is the wealthy city of San Francisco...thus illustrating the universal constant of "s**t happens."


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## MinisterPumpkin

I believe God gave us free will because He wants us to choose to love Him and to follow Him. The problem is that people are using the free will in the wrong way and are sinning. I believe that we cause all these problems you mentioned ourselves when we sin. There wouldn't be hunger if everyone loved God and each other (if there was no sin). I don't know what has happened to you in your life, but I think your depression is a result of some sin.

And as for people dying from natural disasters, I think God knows whats best and He will take away people when its the right time for them to go. 

All this pain can be good though since it does make people stronger and in some cases it makes people turn to God. In the book of James it says that you should consider it joy when you go through trials because it develops perseverance.


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## Emptyheart

Because he's testing us.


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## ruxul

MinisterPumpkin said:


> I don't know what has happened to you in your life, but I think your depression is a result of some sin.


:sus


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## MinisterPumpkin

ruxul said:


> :sus


Let me be more clear. I'm not saying its just his fault. Its a result of sin around him too that's why i said some sin, not his sin. For example, if friends or family aren't treating him right then that could lead him to depression. A persons own sin can cause depression because it takes the person further away from God.


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## Mc Borg

Because God gave mankind freedom, and mankind uses it's freedom to do some really evil things.


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## Your Crazy

MinisterPumpkin said:


> There wouldn't be hunger if everyone loved God and each other (if there was no sin).


Job?


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## MinisterPumpkin

Your Crazy said:


> Job?


Job was the most righteous man at the time he lived, but suffered from huge disasters. This story shows that how much you sin is not directly related to the punishment you receive in this life (some don't experience much punishment in this life despite sinning much, but maybe in the afterlife or its covered by God's grace? idk). Job's friends accused him of committing great sin and said that was why he experienced disaster. I'm not saying that about you or anyone here. I'm saying that if he was living in a world with no sin (everyone was perfect) then I don't think those disasters would have occurred. Some might say that he didn't deserve all the disaster that happened to him. But lets not forget that the wages of sin is death or eternal separation from God. Job and all us children of God are really getting better than we deserve because of God's grace. Jesus on the other hand, deserved much better than what He got. He lived a perfect life, but still took on the huge burden of all our sin because He loves us. Bottom line: I believe sin causes destruction and is ruining our world and we need to love like God loves us and that is why we have to deal with all this pain.


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## justpassinby

I found a web site with bible verses on this subject for whoever is interested.

http://www.dianedew.com/pain.htm


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## Game 7

God allowed us to choose our path before we got to Earth. We decided what challenges and successes we would face during our time here. We come here to experience the things that don't exist in Heaven...like disappointment, jealousy, sadness, anger, etc.
That's what I tell myself anyways. If I die before you, I'll try and come to let you know what God's deal is, if it's different from what I believe.


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## VanDamMan

Mc Borg said:


> Because God gave mankind freedom, and mankind uses it's freedom to do some really evil things.


Best answer so far.


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## millenniumman75

MinisterPumpkin said:


> Job was the most righteous man at the time he lived, but suffered from huge disasters. This story shows that how much you sin is not directly related to the punishment you receive in this life (some don't experience much punishment in this life despite sinning much, but maybe in the afterlife or its covered by God's grace? idk). Job's friends accused him of committing great sin and said that was why he experienced disaster. I'm not saying that about you or anyone here. I'm saying that if he was living in a world with no sin (everyone was perfect) then I don't think those disasters would have occurred. Some might say that he didn't deserve all the disaster that happened to him. But lets not forget that the wages of sin is death or eternal separation from God. Job and all us children of God are really getting better than we deserve because of God's grace. Jesus on the other hand, deserved much better than what He got. He lived a perfect life, but still took on the huge burden of all our sin because He loves us. Bottom line: I believe sin causes destruction and is ruining our world and we need to love like God loves us and that is why we have to deal with all this pain.


It builds our character - wisdom - to help others who may face the same thing. 
I lived a Job trial from 2002-2004 and I know first hand about this guy went through - I had a bad breakout of acne for a month like he did, too. Everything fell apart around me including losing my grandmother and my dog - both were the dearest to me. It was one HUGE test, but I carry the lessons six years later and it got me through some really rough times.


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## SilentWitness

Mc Borg said:


> Because God gave mankind freedom, and mankind uses it's freedom to do some really evil things.





VanDamMan said:


> Best answer so far.


I agree.


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## Perfectionist25

We have the power within to heal the pain. He gave us that. Its up to us to find it.


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## NemoNevermore

I'm not going to go into religion as my beliefs are really convoluted, but the only way there could be no evil in the world would be if people had no free will and were mindless automatons. If that were the case there wouldn't be any good in the world either, though, just an endless repetition of thoughtless actions.


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## MinisterPumpkin

Actually, I think I was wrong when I said that depression, hunger, etc is caused strictly by sin. It can be caused by sin or it could be the person is being tested and the devil is causing the problems as others have said already, so sorry. The OP was right to bring up Job since the devil caused the disaster in that story and Job was being tested.


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## justpassinby

One thing that helps being a believer is remembering God is outside of time. Our life and pain on earth is fleeting, but our spirit is eternal. He cares more about our spirit than our bodies, since they die and the spirit lives on in eternity with Him. He's pure and holy and wants spirits with him of that same value. It takes pain and hard circumstance to humble us enough to receive Him while we are here and can't be with Him. Not saying he could care less for our pain, he cries along with us when we hurt because He experienced it being Jesus. If you read passages about Jesus, he was so touched by other's pain it also brought him to tears.


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## MinisterPumpkin

I think I like the website that Justpassinby suggested. Haven't looked at everything, but it appears to use scripture pretty well to back up points made. If anyone is interested in seeing what the Bible says it will be like without pain or evil, I found the link to the website describing heaven with Bible verses (http://www.dianedew.com/heaven.htm). I especially like that they have links to the supporting Bible verses so you can go straight to the passage to see for yourself.


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## millenniumman75

MinisterPumpkin said:


> I think I like the website that Justpassinby suggested. Haven't looked at everything, but it appears to use scripture pretty well to back up points made. If anyone is interested in seeing what the Bible says it will be like without pain or evil, I found the link to the website describing heaven with Bible verses (http://www.dianedew.com/heaven.htm). I especially like that they have links to the supporting Bible verses so you can go straight to the passage to see for yourself.


It'll be nice - no physical body with hormones and stuff :lol.
I want to have wings and fly around helping people.
Touched by an Angel would make me cry....every time. :cry


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## _AJ_

cause he doesnt care about us

would a good parent just stand by and watch his children beat each other up or stand by and let them get injured by some accident and say "Im not doing anything cause as a caring parent i give them free will!" or "I am testing them to see who is a good child" or "I am not stopping this cause I want them to learn to grow stronger"


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## Your Crazy

MinisterPumpkin said:


> Actually, I think I was wrong when I said that depression, hunger, etc is caused strictly by sin. It can be caused by sin or it could be the person is being tested and the devil is causing the problems as others have said already, so sorry. The OP was right to bring up Job since the devil caused the disaster in that story and Job was being tested.


You're still not understanding me. What about babies who are born into starvation, or with a lethal disease or virus? They did nothing to no one, so sin doesn't even enter into that situation in their case, and how can the devil tempt a five month old?


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## shadowmask

Your Crazy said:


> You're still not understanding me. What about babies who are born into starvation, or with a lethal disease or virus? They did nothing to no one, so sin doesn't even enter into that situation in their case, and how can the devil tempt a five month old?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin


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## justpassinby

Auron said:


> so natural disasters are justified by the fact that god doesnt care about our physical bodies, and allows the slaughter of thousands of people to "humble us"? he cries and suffers for the pain he himself inflicted upon us. Besides stories in the bible, how do we know for certain god is emotionally affected(if he has emotions) by whatever goes on earth, let alone on each person's life, if he is outside the realm of time and space?


Natural disasters are just that, natural. God didn't cause them. If we are referring to the most recent one in Haiti, the damage is a result of improper infrastructure due to an uncaring and corrupt leadership. Their moral system is bankrupt, so they needed help outside their country, and have for awhile now. I know someone personally who has done outreaches to other countries, Haiti for one, and he could "feel" the moral bankruptcy, it is palpable. Again, people's fault, not God's. He gave us instruction on how to live life with as little pain as possible in the Bible, and how to accept pain and suffering when it happens because we are very vulnerable. He made us in His image, so of course he has emotions. Not debating this, so i'll end it there.


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## Hippo

"*Why does God allow hurt and pain to the people he loves?"

he wants people to learn to trust him, and the only way to accomplish that is if we have tests and obstacles that we have to overcome in order to learn trust.
*


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## Hippo

_AJ_ said:


> cause he doesnt care about us
> 
> would a good parent just stand by and watch his children beat each other up or stand by and let them get injured by some accident and say "Im not doing anything cause as a caring parent i give them free will!" or "I am testing them to see who is a good child" or "I am not stopping this cause I want them to learn to grow stronger"


A good parent wouldn't do those things, but he isn't our parent. We call God "father" but that is just poetic license, he isn't really our parent.


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## low

*Deleted post. Not really relevant to faith based support.*


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## 1applehearts1

laura024 said:


> Without pain, there would be no compassion. And without the bad things in the world, we wouldn't appreciate the good things. The hurt ultimately makes us stronger and better people.


exactly. and plus god gave us free will. the right to chose wrong or right thats why there are killers and there are philanthropists. he didnt want to make us all like cookie cutter robots that are all mindless. thats what makes us human, we have a concious. God allows certain things to happen for a reason. we dont always see the bigger picture


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## Silence

You've heard of Judgement Day right? Right now the ruler of this world is Satan. There will be a time in the future when God will bring about his Kingdom and destroy all the wickedness in this world. But that doesn't mean he doesn't care about people and the agony they go through. In fact, the Bible says he feels hurt at his heart, and like needle being pushed through his eye when people suffer. That's why He says the world is lying in the "power of the wicked one." In the meantime, we just have to ride it out and pray for the strength to get through this evil system until God's Kingdom arrives. And it will, as promised. God cannot lie.


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## illlaymedown

In Christian theology and this reply is only meant for the OP as I have not read thru all the posts, I would say that evil exists. I'm sure you would say so as well. So how do we know what evil is? We have a standard and that standard is God. An innate moral objective law within humanity and He who is both the creator of humanity and the "lawgiver". Evil is a perversion of good...meaning it's like a moth eaten garment. It's not a self-maintained entity so it was not created and cannot exist apart from something to exist on. If you take the moth holes out of the garment, you have a perfect garment, but if you take the garment out of the moth holes, you have nothing. Evil is a parasite on good. God did not create evil, but He did create free will...I'd rather not be a robot myself. Free will gives choices and way to sin and evil as well as good. Another thing, God creates life, so He is the only one who has the right to take it whenever He pleases. This short time of suffering on this earth is nothing compared to eternity. And we don't believe death to be "the end", so people don't die really, they just transition from one plain of being to another. I was recently diagnosed with MS and it's been a rought week, but my family has really stepped up for me and I feel more loved and connected to them than I ever have, plus having this I can relate and connect to other people who experience it and possibly help them overcome as well just like having SA brought me here and gave me a chance to meet a lot of wonderful people who are just clouded by hurt and don't realize how important they really are. I suggest you search for Ravi Zacharias on youtube and check out www.provethebible.net and hopefully this is helpful to you :squeeze He loves you more than you know....He suffered for you and died for you, if I have to suffer for Him, I am willing and have...He brings both good days and allows bad days, but He's in control and there's a bigger picture for both. The painting just isn't finished yet


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## Social_butterfly00

I commented on the post about Haiti in the society and culture section but I will comment here too, and try to make it brief. Basically, I do believe God exists, but the extent of his existence is beyond our human intellectual capacity. Firstly, natural diasters are just that - natural disasters. I don't see that God plans them or creates them. In the beginning, he created Earth and life, and gave both entities free will in that respect. I feel religion and science work together, although I know many disagree with that. God created these scientific laws that govern the Earth.

And in terms of why He "allows evil to happen", my answer is that he doesn't allow it at all. He is just witness to sinners who act with evil intentions. Good people are murdered everyday by people who have evil in their heart. Of course this doesn't seem fair, but I dont remember every hearing in my life that life was supposed to be fair.

I don't feel like that because I experience issues such as depression, anxiety, problems with mental health, addiction problems, and problems with eating disorders, that I have been a sinner. None of us can help the life or family we are born into. We become a product of our environment. And for someone born into a rundown neighbourhood filled with drugs, crime, and gangs, I think we can understand how much more difficult it is for them to find God, especially if they were never introduced to religion. I can understand how they might even feel punished by God. But these are the hands we are dealt.

But like someone else stated, the Bible says that Adam disobeyed God and thus evil was born into the world. Why one's persons actions makes everyone capable of evilness is beyond me. I believe whether or not Adam committed sin, evilness would still exist. Because there would not be good without evil, just as there would not be pain without joy.

Today I contemplated taking my own life away, and I prayed to God. This is probably why I have been roaming the threads on SAS related to religion and spirituality. I'm looking for answers, but they are never going to be written down on a neat little notepad and handed to me. I feel weak when I am unable to handle pain. I wonder if God made me weak, or if my weakness is in my own control? Sometimes it feels like it isn't. The simple fact that I am able to experience these intense emotions makes me believe there is a creator of intelligent design. Everyday I have a debate with myself about why I am here and why any of us here. From time to time, my views and opinions change, and then they change back again. I don't think I will ever be able to make up my mind on some things, because the pain I experience can be so painful sometimes that I wonder what did I do to deserve this? These are days when I am bitter. Other days I feel as though I have been given a test, and that if I pass that test, I will be stronger.

Just a side note, provethebible.net is a really good site. It is quite lengthy, I spent four hours reading it one night and didn't make it through all of it but it helped a lot.


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## eagleheart

Your Crazy said:


> I'm not saying that I've stop believing in God, but I feel like I'm leaning towards it, as much as I hate saying it. I just don't understand how he can just sit back and let 95% of the world to be in so much sadness and hurt.


Me too. unfortunately i feel the same way lately.

and sometimes someone will say something about praying and I know it sounds wrong, and I AM NOT UP FOR debating or clashing or arguing in any way.. but i almost feel like saying "if God doesn't care about Haitians why would he care about me or whoever, what makes us so special?" it seems presumptuous

that's just how i feel right at this point in time...sorry...


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## Sunshine009

I don't know why but I do know that it is best to try to make your peace with God despite anything that happens and try to live life in a way that where you feel you are "serving Good".


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## JimmyDeansRetartedCousin

I don't beleive in leaving things to the will of God. Largely people are confused, weak, egoic, lazy, sinfull, shallow beings and bad things are going to happen, The important thing is never to dwell on what has been, this only extends the suffering and once something has occured there is nothing you can do to change it. Acceptance of how things are is crucial to living a happy life. In others words Sh1t happens deal with it.


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## Sunshine009

^The past can be a good teacher, so to reflect and learn from things that affected us is a good thing in that way. If we change our perspective on it, then the past is not a problem to us.


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## Neptunus

Sunshine009 said:


> ^The past can be a good teacher, so to reflect and learn from things that affected us is a good thing in that way. If we change our perspective on it, then the past is not a problem to us.


So very true.


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## jer

Looking at the OP's original post and the post above by Sick Puppy, 
it seems the other posts do not answer these questions.

Why would God let an innocent toddler suffer. 
What in the world have they done wrong.
What lesson are they supposed to learn from that ( the kid is about to die).

I dont think any of the other posts answer that question.

I do believe in God, but I sometimes ask these questions when I pray.


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## jer

Sunshine009 said:


> I don't know why but I do know that it is best to try to make your peace with God despite anything that happens and try to live life in a way that where you feel you are "serving Good".


I think this seems to be the closest to a right answer


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## caflme

Why do WE allow hurt and pain... if WE are made in His image and we are set here to be Christ-Like and to Love Our Neighbor as Ourself and to Do To Others as We Would Have Them Do Unto Us then it is on us... not God. Parent's damage children and they grow up damaged... our society damages us and we continue to be damaged... so at what point to we start hurting other people and creating more damage. I think that it comes down to loving and protecting kids... caring about teenagers and making them feel valued and loved, taking care of the homeless and the people who for whatever reason can't take care of themselves... but when it comes to disasters and stuff... I think that there is a greater plan... it makes no sense in our finite world and our finite sense of time and limited knowledge... that is where Faith comes in... that He knows and has a plan and we don't have to understand it, we just have to keep doing what is right and true and honest and good... keep fighting the good fight... worse case we are wrong and it is all a lie but we have done good in this world to make it a better place for ourselves and others... best case we are right and will live happy and at peace for eternity... I'm banking on being right.


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## bunski

one985 said:


> What makes sense to me is that God is the ultimate source of goodness. God is neither a being nor a he or a she. God is neither responsible for your actions nor anything that happens to you. It is the goodness that I choose to believe in to get through tough times.
> 
> I haven't read anyone else's post, so I might be repeating someone's idea. But, God can be anything. Be something that gives you strength to face life challenges. I guess the belief is really within you and no one else.


 Yes I agree, and having faith in life is important to believing in yourself and others. I believe that everything happens for a reason and we cant always chose what happens to us in life its all part of taking the rough with the smooth and all helps to build us to become stronger and better people if we chose to manage it well.


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## Anxiety75

You've raised a good question and I can tell you. One of the reasons is because the Bible says that the Devil, not God, rules the world. 1 John 5:19
Much of it though is not necessarily the Devil but mans' own greed and his lack of dependence on God. We live in a time of peril. In Matthew the 24th chapter it speaks of earthquakes and food shortages as signs of the end of this old world. But to answer your question as to why God allows it is because the challenge Satan raised in the beginning. He insinuated that mankind could be independent from God and didn't need his help. So God allowed Satan to rule the world and prove him a liar. In Genesis, Satan used a serpent to deceive Eve and tell her she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Read the first few chp. of Genesis.

God promised that soon his Son would destroy Satan and finally prove to the world and to the angels of heaven that this world cannot function and direct it's step without God, (Jeremiah 10:23) who made us and knows what is best-just as a parent knows best how to raise his son or daughter.

This way even though God's human creatures have to suffer so much, he will soon show up Satan the fool that he is. After all, Satan is only a wicked angel. God is Almighty in power and can rule the world with success. Now it is only a matter of time before Jesus returns to do away with wickedness and suffering and he is eager to do so. Never think they don't care. God even said that he felt that when people hurt his worshippers it is like touching his eyeball. (Zechariah 2:8

Who rules the world now? Not God.

If you have anymore questions PM me anytime.

Shannon



Your Crazy said:


> I was just pondering about how I've felt like a depressed empty shell of a human being with no confidence or self-esteem since the young age of 9, and was wondering if God loves me so much, why am I going though this?
> 
> Also, why are there starving counties? Why are there storms and earthquakes that kill hundreds of thousands of people who are mothers, and siblings, and children, that in most cases some of their families would be devastated without?
> 
> I'm not saying that I've stop believing in God, but I feel like I'm leaning towards it, as much as I hate saying it. I just don't understand how he can just sit back and let 95% of the world to be in so much sadness and hurt.


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## Mc Borg

Perhaps we choose what our earthly existence will be like, before we are born? I don't mean everything, but certain conditions. Maybe we chose to have social anxiety to help us grow spiritually? We see it as "Why do we have this? Why did God make us this way?" but maybe, we ourselves had more to do with it than we think.

Another thing I've thought about when it comes to the whole pain and suffering, is maybe karma has something to do with it. Maybe in a past life the person did horrible things to other people, so when they are reincarnated, they deal with the pain they inflicted upon others. The bible has passages such as _"For_ _the wages of sin is death" _and "_Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, *where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal*. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

_This is Earth, where these things happen. Things die; things decay.


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## sash

I believe that the tough times give us character and really make us who we are. God has to allow these things to happen so that we can turn to Him for comfort and guidance. I lost two kids and had to bury them...so trust me, I asked myself ...why??? all the time. But by losing them, I experienced great pain which built character in me and brought me closer to Him in terms of believing that He could get me through it. He does this (I believe...and this is all just my opinion) to test us and see who will break or who will shine in despite of their tragedies. 

I don't have all the answers nor do I understand God's reasoning, but I've learned that it's better to look for the light in every dark situation.


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## redtogo72

God works in mysterious ways. You should read Voltaire's Candide to learn more about it. lol jk

Maybe, he's too busy to worry about us which is an absurd personification.

I like these lyrics by Tori Amos:


> Devils and Gods now that's an idea
> But if we believe that its They who decide
> That's the ultimate detractor of crimes
> 'cause Devils and Gods
> They are You and I


You can listen to the song here:


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## SciFiGeek17

I ask myself this everytime I am dealing with a problem or a situation that really sucks. 

But I recently told myself this:

'If we didn't have struggles, pain or suffering, we wouldn't go to God. If our lives were perfect, we had perfect families, plenty of money, pefect health...etc, we wouldn't need to pray then. Or ask to solve our problems.
We live in an unperfect world, so our lives won't be perfect either'.


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## Aries33

why doesnt god ever hear my prays and actually do something, it seems like everytime i pray for help he turn his back on me, why does he let those who hurt us continue to do it


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## HeavyweightSoul

I can't wait to die. I want to die so badly and I want God to remove me from this world and end my suffering. I wish God would take my life tonight in my sleep. I hope God sees that I didnt kill myself and realizes that I stood here and took my beating and I deserve to go to heaven.


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## Royals

Yes, you can better say 'why do we allow to let misery take over and hurt ourselves so much?'. Lucifer was cast out of heaven and free to roam this world look desperately for some souls to hang on to. It is our duty to stay away from him, negativity and addiction. Humans always easy to blame others once they make the wrong choices. We have to take responsbility for our own actions, never blame others. Jesus and His disciples left us New Testament full of His words how to protect ourselves from, and conquer evil. If only, we listened to His advice. Love thy neighbour like yourself and God. What a good world this would be. But instead we chose to feed the ego and invest in material things and not the healthiness of our mind, body and spirit and relationship with God. I would never blame God or others for my problems. They have free will just like me and the right to use it or abuse it. I make sure I will use it to help myself and others


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## TJenkins602

Why does God allow bad things to happen? This seems like a question that we ourselves should ask God personally (provided we believe in God). People that ask that question are normally not going to accept any answer. It is usually more of a rationalization of disbelief than an honest question. 

The truth is, I don't have an answer that will satisfy the asker. It is up to the asker of the question to find the answer. (I have personally found an answer that would satisfy me).


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## TJenkins602

MinisterPumpkin said:


> Actually, I think I was wrong when I said that depression, hunger, etc is caused strictly by sin. It can be caused by sin or it could be the person is being tested and the devil is causing the problems as others have said already, so sorry. The OP was right to bring up Job since the devil caused the disaster in that story and Job was being tested.


I respect that. It's sort of rare for someone to admit where he or she might be wrong. Sign of humility.


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## anton110847

*Why Does God Allow Suffering?*

I have read an endless exchange of notes about the above topic, and yet I have not seen any that truly satisfies the angst that I have regarding the permissiveness of God in this area. The Christian is quick to defend (apologize for, hence the term apologetics (am I right?), which I think shouldn't even exist because if God is powerful as He is thought to be, He doesn't need our help in defending Himself) God no matter how silly it sounds; the skeptic and atheist is quick at denouncing God as a sadist who splits is side with glee at the misery of men. My experience shouts loud enough - God, I am not a masochist. I don't love being hurt. Why can't you be just what you say you are, e.g. a good and loving God. I'm fed up with hearing that God's attributes balance each other, the mercy attribute is balanced with His justice, etc. What do you think of a father who toys with his children's feelings by telling them, "I am forced to punish you for your offense because I am just. But because I love you, I am not going to, yet you have to suffer for doing wrong, etc., etc.


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## millenniumman75

He is who He says He is and when He is with us, we are taken care of.
We each go through things, and it ends up helping others with the message we have of getting through it.


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## el flaco

laura024 said:


> Without pain, there would be no compassion. And without the bad things in the world, we wouldn't appreciate the good things. The hurt ultimately makes us stronger and better people.


This, its the dual nature of reality; positive/negative, good/evil, light/dark, male/female. While suffering is an inherent aspect of life there is far too much unnecessary pain caused by the idiocy of man.


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## Malek

laura024 said:


> Without pain, there would be no compassion. And without the bad things in the world, we wouldn't appreciate the good things. The hurt ultimately makes us stronger and better people.


I try to tell myself this almost every day. Last night I got into an argument with my mother cause I didn't want to attend Sunday Mass. I should of... I feel ashamed. But I feel so lonely and no matter how much spiritual enlightenment I supposedly receive, the numb pain in my chest still remains.

I don't want to lose my faith, I just also don't want to live in a delusional dream world and think God is going to save me from my loneliness. That is something I must fix myself.


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## JadedJade

Malek said:


> ...But I feel so lonely and no matter how much spiritual enlightenment I supposedly receive, the numb pain in my chest still remains.


I think this is why I questions things more than I should. The pain never goes away and one of my greatest fears is pain.

I recently read this book about martyrs and it's left me horrified what many people-good people-have had to go through. I feel frustration asking "why on earth would or could god allow someone go through such things?" and then I also feel great shame and guilt for the inability to deal with my own crap, which I know is a paradise compared to what they went through.

I've prayed for as long as I can remember and maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I just don't feel god's presence/spirit with me...


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## _AJ_

I think the problem here is this assumption that god loves us.


seriously, how would anyone come to that conclusion after taking a look at the world around us?


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## Royals

It is no secret this world is sinfull and in the authority of lucifer. That is why one day a new earth has to come. But God created this world as a peacefull place but humans influenced by the world's temptations destroyed it. If I would mess up something I would take the responsibility and would ask for forgiveness. Not make the situation worse or nevermind. This is what most people do. That is why the world doesn't get any better because only a few dare to stand out and take the lead and try to make this world a better place. The rest are walking around like selfish/egoistical chickens only helping themselves. The devil laughs at us for having brainwashed and deceived us far from God. 

The Christians are the other people. We live not in this world spiritually but in God's kingdom. With God we can rise above the world's
troubles and overcome them. We realize we have to be the light of the world and make it better. We take resposnibility for our faults/
mistakes and try to always do better. There should be more of God's people in this world. It would be a better place for sure.


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## Tone

I dont believe there is any adequate purpose behind pain & of the philosophy that all pain should be eliminated from life & all sentient beings.


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## WhoDey85

I've always tried to wrap my head around this question. I think it is definitely beyond our human understanding. I think it's an easier pill to swallow when we truly believe and have faith that God rights all wrongs and injustices in the end. 
I've been reading this book that says we really can't say why God allows horrible things to happen but we can say that is not because he doesn't love us. God experienced all the pain and suffering that we experience in our life firsthand himself (and of course he chose to do this, he didn't have to). He did this when he came to us as Jesus Christ in the imperfect human form. God was then capable of feeling despair, rejection, loneliness, poverty, torture, and imprisonment living among us through Jesus Christ. It doesn't answer the original question but it does give us the strength to face the more brutal realities of life knowing that we are following in the footsteps of God himself.

It had a good quote in it by C.S Lewis saying _"They say of some temporal suffering, No future bliss can make up for it, not knowing that Heaven, once attained, will work backwards and turn even that agony into a glory._"

I would certainly classify SA as "temporal suffering"


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## noscreenname

The problem of evil is certainly a problem for the fundamentalist Christian God. No one can come up with an answer that satisfies because there isn't any. The closest they can come to is "God works in mysterious ways" 

My own version of God has no problem with it since there is no good or evil in reality, neither does it concern God.


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## prettyful

interesting question


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## noscreenname

God isn't like a parent though he's more like a baker. You can't blame anyone but yourself when the cake comes out tasting like crud.


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## arao6

Your Crazy said:


> Also, why are there starving counties? Why are there storms and earthquakes that kill hundreds of thousands of people who are mothers, and siblings, and children, that in most cases some of their families would be devastated without?


Simple: our current _conception_ of God is inaccurate. God definitely exists, but our understanding of him is primitive at best. The stuff we _do_ know just doesn't concur with the way the world works.



Royals said:


> It is no secret this world is sinfull and in the authority of lucifer.


Lol. Sin is a relative concept. Want an example?

Bible:
"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything." (Genesis 9:3)
"One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables." (Romans 14:1-23)

Compassion or Reason:
Slaughtering 150 billion animals for the sake of eating meat is a sin.

God is out there, but our understanding of him is inaccurate at best.


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## blue2

im not the most religious person, i was raised goin to church an all baptized confirmed etc but i didn't go to a service in mayby 5 years, but i think a mortal death wouldn't mean a lot to god, he's just callin the main bit off us home our spirit, true the death off a young person strengthens the character of those left behind, but then again or bodies age an change, but i don't think age is off concern for our spirit ...i mean leave all ur human emotions, stereotypes, feelings out of it for a minute.....this woman that lost her 2 children, mayby these 2 children were just 2 spirits helping another spirit to b stronger.....idk im rambling on take it or leave it i don't care......:boogie


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## MikeinNirvana

It's you and the effort that you put to change your life.
With God or without, I think that we are here to learn just like when we were in schools, pain can be a good teacher sometimes.


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## Scrub-Zero

God or no God, people would still waste eachother anyway. Angry people use God as a scapegoat but really, it's humans who do all the bad deeds. What do you want God to do, wave a staff of peace +5 and stop all the bad guys in their tracks? It's up to us to protect and manage this world. It was given to us.


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## sprinter




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## WhoDey85

FoundAndLost said:


> [Edit]-shyvr6


You should check this out sometime.

http://www.timtebowfoundation.org/


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## ParadigmShift

In the religion I grew up in, I was taught that God gives us trials to overcome. I was also taught that God gave us agency (freedom of choice) and that as a result of agency, there's opposition in all things. When there's good, there is evil. God won't force evil people to do good things, because we won't learn the difference. And if everyone, good or evil, is forced to do good, then we won't learn or progress.

Take note that I am not exactly religious anymore, but I did find that lesson interesting. . .


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## Royals

Because we live in a sinfull world but with God we can rise above the evil. We are not of this world but of God's kingdom. So when there is pain and hardship we are almost forced to do something about this. We can conquer it or cure it. Evil shows us there is a better way. So we will turn to God. And He will help us conquer all evil. If this was a good world everyone would be close to God and no one would have a choice to commit evil, no one would even think about it. Now because of man's sin and downfall we have a choice and responsibility to do something about it. 

Luckily there are still a lot of people who let their light shine and try to do something about the unfair injustices in the world. Use your God given responsibility and loving approach to do the same.


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## Recipe For Disaster

Because God gave people free will and that includes the freedom to feel sad and to hurt. We also always have the option to turn to God and he is always there for us and will comfort us and see us through any trouble. The thing is, many people don't trust God and they refuse to rely on Him or accept his comfort and grace. Is that God's fault or the peoples? 

Remember God's original vision for earth was that of a paradise but human beings rebelled against him and that's what brought evil, disease and death into the world. God could have destroyed us then and there because out of his mercy he decided to let us live in sin and rebellion while also giving those who love him a way that they could return to Him and be saved. 

The point is that hurt and pain result from rebelling against God and God allows them because he gave us free will.


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## Royals

Recipe For Disaster said:


> Because God gave people free will and that includes the freedom to feel sad and to hurt. We also always have the option to turn to God and he is always there for us and will comfort us and see us through any trouble. The thing is, many people don't trust God and they refuse to rely on Him or accept his comfort and grace. Is that God's fault or the peoples?
> 
> Remember God's original vision for earth was that of a paradise but human beings rebelled against him and that's what brought evil, disease and death into the world. God could have destroyed us then and there because out of his mercy he decided to let us live in sin and rebellion while also giving those who love him a way that they could return to Him and be saved.
> 
> The point is that hurt and pain result from rebelling against God and God allows them because he gave us free will.


True  And also most of God's people (in the bible) go through suffering and problems. Look at Job or Padre Pio. Life doesn't become easier as a Christian, it becomes more worthwile though. And like I, and others said, troubles bring you *closer *to God


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## SapphireMeadow

I get where you're coming from, it's not that you disbelieve in God it's just that you don't understand these things and it's making you doubt his word :/ A lot of people ask this question because it is hard to understand why he doesn't step in.

I'm not going to pretend that I have all the answers or understand every situation. But here are three things to consider when thinking about this, that have helped me over the years.

1. God doesn't like to see people suffer but he can't do much for them if they aren't his children. This may sound mean or unfair at first glace but it's really not. It's the same as if you had to pick between your own children and a group of random stranger. You may care deeply about the other people but are still going to pick your children hands down. It's the same way with God. Until they become his children they are complete strangers to him.

2. When children suffer it is usually a result of their parents or other grown ups sinning. He can't physically or mentally control anyone because of our free will, so he can't stop them from sinning and ruining their kids lives in the process... but that doesn't mean that he let's those people get away with it either. Abusing kids or neglecting them is a sin in God's book and he will let things happen to them as payment for that sin.

3. God never said understand me, He said trust me. When it comes to Christians having trouble in their lives, God always has a reason for letting it happen. It may be to make you rely on him more, it may be to point out a sin in your life, or sometimes we never know what it was all about. But God does have a reason and will always help you through whatever you're going through whether you understand it or not.

Like I said I don't have all the answers and don't fully understand some things like natural disasters and such myself. But I believe God must have some reason I just don't get and trust him. He really is all knowing and does want the best for us. Even if we don't understand what the crap he's doing right now, He has his reasons and one day when we get to heaven he can explain it all to us 

Hope this helped in some way,
God Bless~


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## Der Ubermensch

Maybe God is a twisted little freak with a sadistic sense of humor ! Or he doesn't exist at all ! Take your pick.


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## SapphireMeadow

Der Ubermensch said:


> Maybe God is a twisted little freak with a sadistic sense of humor ! Or he doesn't exist at all ! Take your pick.


I'm sorry but this is the "Spiritual Support" section of the forum http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f38/new-guidelines-please-read-10/ . It is not a section for debate or the Atheist support section. Please respect the way the forum is set up and refrain from trying to start arguments or push peoples buttons in the non-debate areas. Thanks.


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## trolololololololo

Most likely there's no "why". Our ideas of God are just distortions about what "he" really is.


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