# Are people with SA deficient on certain minerals/vitamins?



## Stirner (May 16, 2006)

When you browse google for depression and anxiety disorders, sometimes it is recommended to supplement with certain minerals or vitamins, like magnesium and b-vitamin complex. Im not into taking the shot-gun approach , so i would like to hear if any of you guys have tried something that worked, or even better, had actually been diagnosed deficient with a given v/m due to depression/sa... 

Maybe the body depletes some v/m, because of the inbalance in the brain. 

/Stirner


----------



## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

I am unaware of any research in this area wrt vitamins and minerals per se.

There is some evidence of a correlation (and putative causation) re: omega-3 fatty acids. See Red cell membrane omega-3 fatty acids are decreased in nondepressed patients with social anxiety disorder.

There is some evidence that B-vitamins are involved with depression, although I'm not aware of the evidence for anxiety. Higher magnesium actually tends to be correlated with an _increased_ risk of depression, and depressives usually have higher-than-normal magnesium levels. However, zinc tends to be lower in depressives. That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge in this area.

Of course, all of this is correlation, not causation, to my knowledge. While there are double-blind placebo controlled studies demonstrating efficacy for fish oil, I don't know of any for B-vitamins or zinc. But considering the strong correlation and the health benefits from supplementation - and given that it is cheap, and carries basically no risk - I am personally a fan of B-vitamins, zinc, and fish oil.

(And of course a multivitamin!)


----------



## Stirner (May 16, 2006)

Thx a lot Caedmon!

Actually i though that depressive patients where deficent in magnesium, so i tried supplement with that. But since magnesium "eats up" zinc, i guess that was a bad idea.  (Im not depressive though, just good ol´ sa)

I´ll have to remember to take my fish oil pills and i´ll give zinc and b-vitamins a shot as well, it so cheap so why not. 

Do you have any knowledge of the recommended doses for fish oil in the treatment of depression (and sa)?

/Stirner


----------



## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Good fish oil dose: try ~1 or 2 grams of epa/dha for about 3 months, then if you don't see any difference try raising the dose. It sounds weird, but the cheaper brands are usually the better ones. 

BTW you can definitely give magnesium a try. I'm sure that everyone is different. I try not to take in much of it, but I do occasionally have magnesium citrate which makes me really tired and stuff, but at least I'm relaxed.


----------



## hockeybabe (Nov 10, 2003)

I was found in 2004 to be low in magnesium, so I was put onto supplements. After several weeks I noticed a positive change in my mood.


----------



## Stirner (May 16, 2006)

hockeybabe said:


> I was found in 2004 to be low in magnesium, so I was put onto supplements. After several weeks I noticed a positive change in my mood.


How did you realize that. Did you have a test at the doctor? - i have no clue on how you can get a test for that, so im kind of curios..!


----------



## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

You can get your blood drawn and they test the magnesium level. 

I had my magnesium serum level tested a month ago (part of a workup due to concerns about an arrhythmia - they also tested thyroid, electrolytes, and did an EKG), but it was all normal.


----------



## Pacifica Chick (Nov 9, 2003)

I was told by someone else on another forum that magnesium deficiency can relate to anxiety/depression. I can't say definintively if it's worked but since I've been taking extra magnesium over the last year I have felt much less depressed-so it does make me wonder if it's had something to do with it? :con I do still have days where I feel anxious tho. :stu The frustrating thing is getting the dosage right, I was really never able to figure it out, as apparently everyone has different needs. A naturopath could probably help, but I've never been to one. 

So that probably doesn't do much to answer your question, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. :lol Good luck.


----------



## mgb_apparitions (Feb 26, 2005)

Well since I have tried just about every supplement, I'll give you my opinion. However, I am NOT a doctor so take my opinion for what it is

1. Multi-vitamin - probably won't help much with SA but still a good idea.

2. B-Complex - some evidence that it helps but I found not enough to help someone who would describe themselves as having "SA". Still worthwhile in my opinion.

3. Omega-3 - didn't do anything for SA but still worthwhile in my opinion for the cardiovascular benefits.

4. St. John's Wort - very little if any effect.

5. Valerian Root - very little if any effect.

6. Kava - very little if any effect and with the risk of liver problems I would definitely stay away from this one.

7. GABA + Inositol - very little if any effect.

8. Holy Basil - very little if any effect.

9. Phenibut - very little if any effect.

Let me tell you about a change that I made recently that has helped me a 1000%. My SA has improved remarkably by trying this. However, my friend tried it and he said there we no effect for him. So, I think it depends on the source of your SA. Here was my situation: I consumed a lot of diet cola over the past several years (5-8 cans per day, sometimes more). Since SA is a relatively new phenomenon for me (I never had it 10 years ago), I suspected that maybe aspartame played a part. I quit aspartame for a couple of weeks here and there and it didn't really seem to change anything so I thought it must not be that. Well, I started researching aspartame on the internet and came across this study:

-----

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

Effects of repeated doses of aspartame on serotonin and its metabolite in various regions of the mouse brain.

Sharma RP, Coulombe RA Jr.

Following a finding that single doses (approximating to average intakes and to potential 'over-use') of aspartame administered orally to mice caused significant increases in norepinephrine and dopamine concentrations in various brain regions, the effect of repeated exposure to aspartame was studied. Male CD-1 mice were given a daily oral dose of 0, 13, 133 or 650 mg/kg for 30 days and 1 day after the last dose the animals were decapitated and their brain regions were quickly isolated. Analyses of the different regions for catecholamine and indoleamine neurotransmitters and their major metabolites indicated that the increases in adrenergic chemicals observed shortly after a single exposure were not apparent after repeated dosing. In contrast, concentrations of serotonin and its metabolite, 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid, were decreased in several regions. An increased supply of phenylalanine may be responsible for a decrease in tryptophan uptake by the brain tissue or for a depression in tryptophan conversion to serotonin.

-----

So I started to suspect that even though I gave up aspartame I hadn't give it enough time for these changes to reverse. Around the same time I read about 5-HTP as a serotonin precursor and I decided to give that a try. So, I gave up aspartame which I suspect was causing a defiency in serotonin and then supplemented with 5-HTP. Let me tell you the difference has been night and day. However, let me stress again that I am not a doctor and this is just my opinion on what worked for me. I still get nervous a lot but the physical symptoms are greatly diminished and more easily dealt with and my mood has improved a lot.

Another thing I noticed by giving up aspartame and taking 5-HTP, my appetite has diminished a lot.

Anyway, sorry for the long reply. I hope you find this info useful


----------



## Stirner (May 16, 2006)

--


----------



## Stirner (May 16, 2006)

> Good fish oil dose: try ~1 or 2 grams of epa/dha for about 3 months, then if you don't see any difference try raising the dose. It sounds weird, but the cheaper brands are usually the better ones.


Ok, thats quite a lot of fish oil but since its dirt cheap, i´ll give it a try. And it should improve body composition, so i guess it will be good for my bodybuilding efforts as well.

mgb_apparitions >> Thx for the input. I don´t eat or drink anything with aspartame but nice to know for people who do. The 5-HTP supplementation seems interesting, seems like to be worth a shot..


----------



## hockeybabe (Nov 10, 2003)

Stirner said:


> hockeybabe said:
> 
> 
> > I was found in 2004 to be low in magnesium, so I was put onto supplements. After several weeks I noticed a positive change in my mood.
> ...


Yeah it was through a bloodtest. This was in 2004 and I was still getting monthly blood tests, where they do a full chemistry panel in addition to the standard complete blood count. There's a normal parameter for magnesium and certain other elements that are important (like potassium).


----------



## Jess (Oct 23, 2004)

Since I think that the whole anxiety disorders area is basically correlated with the whoe fear center/stress center in the brain...I would suggest going to a GNC or some kind of store liek that and asking about vitamins for stress. Or if you feel awkward doing that, you could just ask about the ones in question like you could say you heard B complex was good for you but you dont remember what your friend said to take it for...I did this with omega 3 which seems to be good for many things but includes a mood increase. I think its all related and anything that has to do with stress,hormones, anxiety, mood is always good to take. I dont think that you just need to find something that helps SA but the combonation of feelings that lead up to SA. I could be wrong, just MHO


----------



## sandman32 (Dec 1, 2004)

I would disagree that magnesium is bad for depression. It is estimated that 90% of Americans are deficient. I started taking magnesium glycinate a while ago and I can tell you it definetly helps. I sleep like a rock and have more energy in general the next day. After reading some pages on the internet I gave it a shot. One of the websites that I read was http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html This is a really long read by the way


----------



## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

sandman32 said:


> http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html


Yikes! I have some (okay, many) quibbles with the form and content. This aside, the question was more one of whether or not there were specific deficiencies correlating with SA.

Re: depression, please consider, for example:
Relationships between serum magnesium levels and clinical background factors in patients with mood disorders.

Electrolytes in erythrocytes of patients with depressive disorders.

Weak association between blood sodium, potassium, and calcium and intensity of symptoms in major depressed patients.

Serum Mg2+ and Ca2+/Mg2+ ratio in major depressive disorder.

Calcium and magnesium concentrations in affective disorder: difference between plasma and serum in relation to symptoms.

~~~
Unfortunately I cannot find anything offhand on Mg deficiency in social anxiety disorder or anxiety. Anyone have some good resources?

It makes sense to me that abnormally low or high levels of Mg will contribute to anxiety. This is a different issue: one of individual variation. For example, hypoglycemia may cause anxiety, and is relieved by consuming sugar - but this does not mean that glucose is low in most anxiety patients, or that anxiety is caused by low blood sugar in most people.


----------

