# Do you believe gaming plays a role in violence?



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

OK. This probably belongs on the controversy section but I'm taking a chance because I know gamers definitely post in this section.

Basically I'm asking if you think video games (especially violent ones) play *SOME* role in things like the shootings that happen with younger attackers?

I know this is a sensitive topic and the first instinct will probably be defensive but I didn't really want to consider it either (since even thinking about it gets into the idea of censorship).

But I'm not a gamer. I was reading the Wikipedia entry on THIS GAME one day not too long ago and found some of the plot elements fairly disturbing. Well, disturbing from the POV that you know kids are going to be playing these games whether they're supposed to or not.


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## versikk (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes and no.

It is a venting thing to let go of anger or whatnot.

But I also have first hand experience that media (not games specifically, in my case a cartoon), can actually make you commit violence. then again my experience is from when i was max 10 years old. Also i read about some kids who killed their friend after watching power rangers, years ago. And then there's those girls who stabbed their friend after hearing about slenderman.


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## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

No. There have been many studies that have disproven this. The only link is that some already violent messed up people might be triggered by them, but the moment we walk into the territory of so-called "triggers" is the moment things become blurry, because that can be said about nearly anything. Someone might see a pigeon die on the street, read something, watch a movie, whatever the f*** else (literally) and suddenly connect it to wanting to kill stuff. You'd be surprised at the strange connections the human mind makes between things ESPECIALLY the mind of someone already screwed up enough to commit horrific violence.


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## Euthymia (Jul 15, 2015)

I don't believe violent video games entices kids to go out and kill people, but merely desensitizes the act of it to the point where little to no emotion is present when thinking or doing it. This is especially true at a young age.

For example if a kid saw his father constantly beating on his mom throughout his life he is going to think it's ok to do it to his wife and will feel little to no emotions about it.

So does playing games like GTA make kids violent? No.


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## RandomGentleman (Aug 4, 2014)

No.


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## Mattsy94 (Feb 11, 2013)

It can push a certain kind of person to commit crime. But the person in question already must have some sort of psychological problem.


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## Pongowaffle (Jul 23, 2015)

Yes: because it acts as a motivation and inspiration for them to act out the actions in real life. 

No: because it curbs their boredom to stay indoors and use it as an outlet instead of being out and about and getting into trouble. I think there was some campaign a while back by the rapper Ice-T who encouraged people to play Call of Duty with him online as a way to get kids off of the streets. He said something like "shooting each other on the screen rather than on the streets". I just remember chuckling out loud when I saw that. 

In conclusion: unless they live in a very restrictive household, without violent video games, juveniles can easily find other ways to expose themselves to any violent stimuli. Movies, youtube videos, viral stuff and etc. Back in the 90s without large social media and internet presence, that was when violent video games are new and fresh and a motivating shock to kids.


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## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

There are other countries who's youths consume the same kind of media as the United States and don't have any comparable rates of violence. We just have a fractured society. It probably doesn't help when one spends a lot of time in a glowing confines of gaming.


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## Vaust (Feb 12, 2012)

Absolutely not. There's been a multitude of scientific studies showing no correlation. Genghis Khan didn't own a Playstation 2. Hitler wasn't a fan of Grand Theft Auto 5. In fact, I'd suggest the opposite is true, because as video games have become increasingly popular youth violent crimes has went down. It's just a scapegoat like rock music was before it.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Euthymia said:


> I don't believe violent video games entices kids to go out and kill people, but merely desensitizes the act of it to the point where little to no emotion is present when thinking or doing it. This is especially true at a young age.


 Well, I was talking mostly about young kids playing these games unsupervised. You know the type. Kids who grow up with basically no guidance whatsoever. I don't necessarily believe in the whole "desensitizing" thing. I just think that if there's no one there to explain things to them and especially if they grow up thinking this is normal and the way life is supposed to be it could really screw around with their minds.

I don't really think most adults would have these issues. I worry mostly about kids who just don't know anything working their way through a plot that warps and twists reality to such extremes.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

It might or it might not, but what can you do. That billion dollars train ain't gonna stop anytime soon. It's no different than any other form of visual violence though. 

I watch horror movies often, play gory games and i couldn't hurt a fly unless it was coming to take my life. For some reason i'm not desensitized to real violence.


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## iCod (Feb 17, 2015)

No. 

Simply put. Video games have no correlation to violence.


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## TuxedoChief (Jan 11, 2015)

Violence didn't exist before video games. No. Nuh-uh. Not at all.

I play everything from Rocket League to Mortal Kombat, and I'm the biggest pacifist I know.

Watch this, It's still very relevant:


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

If it plays any role at all it's negligible and circumstantial. About as relevant as having a headache or getting stuck in traffic. Normal people don't violently attack people because they have a headache or they've had one too many red lights. People with anger management issues attack people.

The only thing studies have shown is that playing video games increases aggression, but literally every time we experience frustration we experience aggression. It's got nothing to do with video games specifically. Yes, games can be frustrating, getting your butt kicked by another player can be frustrating, but so can getting the wrong order at a restaurant or stubbing your toe. Aggression =/= violence just like gasoline =/= fire.

Also, despite the link between aggression and frustration wrt video games, video games have built in aggression _release_. I used to come home after school and play violent video games so that I could get all the anger out of my system by taking out my aggression on digital people instead of real people. So while video games may temporarily heighten aggression during particularly frustrating moments of play, that frustration is also being released within the context of the game. When I finished playing, I didn't feel more violent, I felt more relaxed and less angry and it was easier for me to shrug off whatever people had said about me. Playing video games probably prevented me from getting into more fights than I did. Hence the correlation between increased game sales and lower violence in RG's chart. If kids are at home playing video games, they're not out in the streets looking to pick fights with people.

Any observed correlation between violence and video games is based entirely on the unsurprising observation that violent people ALSO enjoy violent games. There may be some truth to desensitization if children are playing violent mature games from an early age, but the influence of violent media is always several orders of magnitude less important than what the child observes in the behavior of his parents. In any case, the parents should be monitoring the games that they're playing.

In other words, is there a role? Probably. But it's probably trivial. If there were any significant impact there would be millions of mass murderers running around, not a handful.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

truant said:


> If it plays any role at all it's negligible and circumstantial. About as relevant as having a headache or getting stuck in traffic. Normal people don't violently attack people because they have a headache or they've had one too many red lights. People with anger management issues attack people.


 So you don't think the rather strange reward systems some games have might condition unsupervised kids to associate violence with reward?

I don't know. It just kind of weirds me out. It was one thing when we used to play Mario and the characters would sort of "die" but now with the much more realistic graphics and the realistic violence being connected to a reward system for a high body count and more blood and so forth, I just don't know about that.

Like I said. I think adults can deal with it (unless they're insane). Well, I know I can because although my education wasn't the greatest, I know for a fact that I educated myself and did a lot of thinking about the differences between fantasies and realities. I just don't know how much of that is happening now with kids who are on the internet by the time they're walking.

I'm basically playing devil's advocate here. I hate censorship. I'm all for freedom. But responsibility and education has to be in there. We can't afford to assume 7 year olds won't be playing these games even if they're not supposed to. I can't imagine what I'd have thought about some of these sinister themes that are in video games now when I was 7 if I just had to sit there and figure it out myself. I was playing Pac Man and Missile Command at that age.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

WillYouStopDave said:


> So you don't think the rather strange reward systems some games have might condition unsupervised kids to associate violence with reward?


I think they need to produce evidence that it does. I'm all for them studying this sort of thing, I just don't think they're going to find anything.

Before video games, kids used to play Cops and Robbers and Cowboys and Indians and used to simulate killing each other in violent, horrible, and often tragic ways. They were able to separate fantasy from reality then, and I don't think it's any different with video games.

I think the reason why violence has gone down is because young men used to form gangs and beat each other up for fun and now they form guilds online and do it anonymously to strangers over the internet.

There are always going to be a few unbalanced people who DO have trouble telling the difference between fantasy and reality, but those people have always existed. Maybe games help those kinds of people focus on their killing fantasies but they're not the cause of their fantasies. Anger, resentment, abusive parents, poverty, social ostracism, chemical imbalances, and atypical brain anatomy are what people should be focusing on.

I think trying to solve things like mass killings by focusing on video games is a bit like trying to get healthy by putting vegetables on your pizza. It might make a small difference but it's a distraction from avoiding the real problem: the pizza. I think focusing on video game violence is a convenient way to shift public attention from difficult problems to simple problems with simple solutions that don't ultimately have much affect.

But I'm happy to be proven wrong.


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## TheSilentGamer (Nov 15, 2014)

Funny how everybody talks about video games being violent, yet violent movies, books, comic books and even music (which existed long before video games) get a free pass. It's just another format of entertainment, people. Lighten up.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Ntln said:


> No. There have been many studies that have disproven this. The only link is that some already violent messed up people might be triggered by them, but the moment we walk into the territory of so-called "triggers" is the moment things become blurry, because that can be said about nearly anything. Someone might see a pigeon die on the street, read something, watch a movie, whatever the f*** else (literally) and suddenly connect it to wanting to kill stuff. You'd be surprised at the strange connections the human mind makes between things ESPECIALLY the mind of someone already screwed up enough to commit horrific violence.


This and if it was that big an issue why do statistics show violent crime rates are actually going down in most countries that play the most video games?

The only thing that's been proven in studies is that it increases aggression while playing the game, and this effect was not proven to last or have a long term impact.



WillYouStopDave said:


> Well, I was talking mostly about young kids playing these games unsupervised. You know the type. Kids who grow up with basically no guidance whatsoever. I don't necessarily believe in the whole "desensitizing" thing. I just think that if there's no one there to explain things to them and especially if they grow up thinking this is normal and the way life is supposed to be it could really screw around with their minds.
> 
> I don't really think most adults would have these issues. I worry mostly about kids who just don't know anything working their way through a plot that warps and twists reality to such extremes.


There are ratings on games for a reason. I didn't think you were for mandatory porn blocks because parents might not be doing their jobs...


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## PlayerOffGames (Mar 19, 2007)

truant said:


> they form guilds online and do it anonymously to strangers over the internet.


hhhhhmmmmmmm


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## a degree of freedom (Sep 28, 2011)

I think it can play a _role_, even without having a causal relationship or even correlating with violence. The games might serve as a helpful means for someone to hold onto their anger. versikk says,



versikk said:


> It is a venting thing to let go of anger or whatnot,


but I don't tend to think of people going out and being angry as much more than people forming a habit of being angry. It's not that there isn't a such thing as "venting" that is eventually cathartic, but expressing anger doesn't by itself lead that direction. It's up to the person to actually process their emotions, so the expression can make things better or worse depending on what the person does with it. Sometimes people expressing their anger just makes them angrier or might make a habit of such.

In a way games then are like knives or guns ... tools that require responsibility and may be misused, or if not misused, then neglected, which may bring its own harm. Do knives play a role in violence? Well, they can, but obviously that relationship is much more complicated than one causing the other because the things standing in the relationship themselves are more complicated.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

Only if you are completely off the wall anyway.

I think this is the most peaceful time in existence, at least in the western world.


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## Estillum (Oct 24, 2012)

No, and I'll kill you if you say otherwise.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> There are ratings on games for a reason. I didn't think you were for mandatory porn blocks because parents might not be doing their jobs...


 I didn't say I was.


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## SusanStorm (Oct 27, 2006)

No,but it might trigger people who are already predisposed or people who are struggling with various stuff might seek to games,music,movies etc who are violent.

Most people manage to see the difference between a game and real life. People just try to put the blame elsewhere than where it really belongs. They have tried to put the blame on violent movies,metal and other music with violent lyrics and video games,but there hasen't been proven that any of these play a role in violence.


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## Orbiter (Jul 8, 2015)

Well, I play KSP but that surely doesn't mean that I want to build an ICBM and launch it on my enemies. lol


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## alenclaud (Mar 31, 2013)

There may be specific cases where nutcases get partly influenced by some game they're obsessed with (the problem here is that they were loony to begin with), but on the whole I remember there being no correlation with violence and videogames according to studies. I also know many gamers (myself included) who are nowhere near violent.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Basically I'm asking if you think video games (especially violent ones) play *SOME* role in things like the shootings that happen with younger attackers?


It perhaps plays some role in some of them.
But it likely also prevents a lot by giving people another way to release some aggressions in a non-violent way.

I don't believe any normal kid will become violent from playing games, but in households with neglect and other problems, it could be an eventual contributing factor.
But then you have to ask the question, how would they had been if they hadn't played games? Would they have done similar things? Other bad things? Sooner? Later? Not at all?

Like with films and other media, I think there are things children shouldn't be exposed to at too young an age, because they're not ready to handle it, but I don't know if the effect of showing a horror film to a 6 year old really is to make them a killer. I think other reactions are far more likely and only really kids who are otherwise disposed to violence would become more prone to violence.
Parents clearly don't always live up to their responsibilities though and often don't know what's in the games. I don't think mandatory and legally enforced rating systems are the answer, but just that parents try to research the games they are getting for their kids.
But then it also seems likely that there's a correlation between children prone to violence and parents not caring or not having the time or energy to look into what their kids are playing.


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## sabbath9 (Dec 30, 2014)

Gaming reduces violence. It's a great outlet for all the frustrations of living in a crazy world. My droogies always pay the price when I've had a bad day


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## Xenos (Jun 24, 2012)

I mean, in some isolated cases? Sure, possibly. I don't think violent video games are going to turn a well-adjusted person into a violent one, but in a person who already has violent tendencies it could contribute. Lots of things could contribute.

I just don't think we should go around condemning, regulating, or banning an entire genre of entertainment based on what might drive this or that person off the deep end. We don't do that for movies, literature, or music. It's a basic free speech principle: don't give up your freedom just because it makes you feel a little safer.


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## KangalLover (Dec 26, 2012)

as a gamer and some one who is game developer i think SOME games like "manhunt" and "postal" MAY have violent effects on SOME people but 99% of other games don't .


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## Lacrimosa Night (Sep 28, 2015)

Maybe but the same can be said so about books, TV, bad parents, school, news papers, comics bad homes, music and God knows what else. People have been killing and raping each other from time immemorial before games became invented. Yet why do games keep getting put on the spotlight.


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## Hopendreamer111 (Nov 1, 2015)

In my opinion video games are not really what is responsible. I think a person has to already have something wrong with them in order to go out and commit any kind of a violent act. I think we as a society like to try to find peace and answers to violence though by coming up with things we can use as scapegoats such as video games and music. Violent behavior is something that has always been around though no matter what forms of entertainment are popular at the time.


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## Zaac (May 20, 2015)

Nah. If it does then something went wrong in their upbringing or they can't distinguish the difference between real life and games because they're a little loco in the head.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

kimsungbabak said:


> as a gamer and some one who is game developer i think SOME games like "manhunt" and "postal" MAY have violent effects on SOME people but 99% of other games don't .


Postal was a trash game though. Clunky controls, horrible animations and everything. I have a hard time imagining someone playing it and having a good time.

Manhunt on the other hand was a fun game and you had a reason to do all the killing. It was you or them. But it was pretty violent for the times.


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## Calie16 (Nov 11, 2015)

I guess not. I mean you can play violent games if you want, but you are supposed to know that violence is actually bad, and that what you are playing just a game.


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## KangalLover (Dec 26, 2012)

Scrub-Zero said:


> Postal was a trash game though. Clunky controls, horrible animations and everything. I have a hard time imagining someone playing it and having a good time.
> 
> Manhunt on the other hand was a fun game and you had a reason to do all the killing. It was you or them. But it was pretty violent for the times.


I remember I played manhunt when i was 13 or 14 :grin2:
it didn't make me violent or anything but it kinda shocked me b/c of its realistic violence.


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## Jermster91 (Oct 25, 2015)

**** No! If it did, then a game such as Grand Theft Auto 5, with 54 million copies sold, would cause a lot of people to go crazy. The people that are violent have had it for a long time. The government like to use video games violence and guns as the scapegoat when ever their is a shooting somewhere.


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

I feel playing gory games a lot can probably erode some barriers. But a sedentary gamer's lifestyle tends to make one less violent and less capable of violence. Personally I feel desensitized to violence but I'm no more violent than the average person and feel no impulse to hurt anyone. So I don't. But I understand other people go into gaming with different psychological circumstances so they are affected in different ways. I think very few of them hurt anyone as a direct result.


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## unemployment simulator (Oct 18, 2015)

No connection. The people I see presenting the idea there is a link seem to be pushing an agenda.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustThisGuy (Mar 24, 2012)

I think it plays a role in venting. Worst case scenario of giving ideas to someone with a predisposition to harm or kill people or living things. But yea, it being the cause has been proven wrong on multiple occasions. And those tests that showed an increase of (negative) aggression in players wasn't the violence, it was losing and competitiveness.


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## regimes (Aug 24, 2011)

honestly, i think it does to an extent.
i think games desensitize players to violence, and sometimes to violence against women, cause women can be quite disposable in video games and can be disposed of in gruesome ways.
some games weird me out with how creative they can be when it comes to violence and gore.
like one horror game recently had a half developed fetus crying in a sink...
but i don't think we necessarily need to censor it. i love my first person shooter too much.
maybe we should just think about how necessary the violence is, and if it serves a purpose, or if it's just senseless blood decor meant to entertain the player.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

regimes said:


> like one horror game recently had a half developed fetus crying in a sink...
> but i don't think we necessarily need to censor it. i love my first person shooter too much.


That sounds kind of cool. I mean if you're gonna do horror, do it right and slap the taboos on the face a little.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

Right, becaue scrawny little whites kid with acne and the huge nerdy glasses are responsible for most violent crimes in America?
Or because ghetto thugs don't go out to mug people on Tuesdays because its a raid night in World of Warcraft? 

Some games may be a little messed up, but then again this is true for all forms of entertainment, does GRRM's asoaif play a role in violence? If you take a step back and look at reality, book nerds and gamers aren't going to go out and commit the violence they read about or play games about.


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

unemploymentsimulator2016 said:


> No connection. The people I see presenting the idea there is a link seem to be pushing an agenda.


 Well, you're welcome to suggest an agenda for me. Because I don't really have one. Other than what I said. Playing devil's advocate. I think questions like this need to be taken seriously even by people who don't want to take them seriously (or wish they'd go away).

We can't make the question go away. It is an uncomfortable question for those of us who believe strongly that freedom of expression is the foundation of freedom in general. It's very easy to just completely deny it. I don't blame those who do because I know it's easy to abuse the idea that a certain type of speech might be harmful. Like I said, it's a very uncomfortable issue.


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## unemployment simulator (Oct 18, 2015)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Well, you're welcome to suggest an agenda for me. Because I don't really have one. Other than what I said. Playing devil's advocate. I think questions like this need to be taken seriously even by people who don't want to take them seriously (or wish they'd go away).
> 
> We can't make the question go away. It is an uncomfortable question for those of us who believe strongly that freedom of expression is the foundation of freedom in general. It's very easy to just completely deny it. I don't blame those who do because I know it's easy to abuse the idea that a certain type of speech might be harmful. Like I said, it's a very uncomfortable issue.


Sorry, didnt mean yourself , it was more in reference to people on talk shows, or in the mainstream media etc presenting the idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

regimes said:


> honestly, i think it does to an extent.
> i think games desensitize players to violence, and sometimes to violence against women, cause women can be quite disposable in video games and can be disposed of in gruesome ways.


wut. Apart from GTA, which does it for shock value, I can't think of a game that revels in violence against women. Is that a console peasant thing? Because most games I play are almost strictly male-on-male violence. Now when it comes to sexual themes, that's another story.


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## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

look at history. People were plenty violent long before there were any video games. It's a natural part of our existence, sometimes humans needed to be violent to survive or to gain reproductive opportunities.

There have been idiots over the years who tried to blame crime and violence on comic books, cartoons, tv shows, movies. They've all been wrong and very manipulative


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## regimes (Aug 24, 2011)

Scrub-Zero said:


> That sounds kind of cool. I mean if you're gonna do horror, do it right and slap the taboos on the face a little.


..case in point.



LawfulStupid said:


> wut. Apart from GTA, which does it for shock value, I can't think of a game that revels in violence against women. Is that a console peasant thing? Because most games I play are almost strictly male-on-male violence. Now when it comes to sexual themes, that's another story.


this article accurately sums it up. even if you don't agree with sarkeesian or what she says, she brings out several examples where a woman is casually murdered or disposed of. and oversexualization of women in video games.. that's a whole nother pandora's box.

i love GTA but it's pretty bad for this stuff in general lol.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333 (May 10, 2015)

regimes said:


> ..case in point.
> 
> this article accurately sums it up. even if you don't agree with sarkeesian or what she says, she brings out several examples where a woman is casually murdered or disposed of. and oversexualization of women in video games.. that's a whole nother pandora's box.
> 
> i love GTA but it's pretty bad for this stuff in general lol.


This article is totally stupid. How many male characters get killed in these games? Should they get rid of every female character to avoid sexism accusations?


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## regimes (Aug 24, 2011)

thedevilsblood said:


> This article is totally stupid. How many male characters get killed in these games? Should they get rid of every female character to avoid sexism accusations?


you should probably actually read/watch for context instead of letting it go right over your head.


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## that weird guy (Aug 14, 2015)

no. of course not


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333 (May 10, 2015)

People are only desentisized to what they experience. Playing violent games will only desentisize you to depictions of violence in game, it doesn't mean that you'll be unphased if someone gets murdered in front of you irl. If you're confusing fiction and reality that means you had serious mental health problems beforehands. The mass shooters who happened to play video games all had a history of mental health issues, bullying, rough upbringing, drug abuse, etc. Sometimes a combo of all of this. All of them, with no exception.


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## Fadetheosis (Nov 17, 2015)

If your playing dark souls then yeah. You might break a controller or a persons arm but hey thats all the fun  From a lot of the stories ive heard its just kids that get effected from this stuff. The girls that stabbed their friend over slender man, the kid that shot his mother with a rifle.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

regimes said:


> ..case in point.


It's about immersion, not necessarily violence. Horror has this bad habit of often going for cheap jump scares instead of pure creep factor.


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## Ignopius (Mar 19, 2013)

Absolutely not. How anybody can believe this just show the failure of media. People understand that video games are fantasy. Video games don't turn anyone violent. There may be a significant number of violent people who get their anger off in video games or seek out video games as a coping mechanism, but video games do not create violence anymore than violent graphic novels, music, or movies create violence.


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