# Tyrosine and Tryptophan



## DrewDrewson

I've been reading through the supplement threads on this board for the past couple days for the first time really. I've been through the medication boards which aren't bad but I'm not interested in SSRIs as I've tried them all and MAOIs just seem like too much of a hassle. I did learn about stimulants from that forum and was able to give dexedrine a try which worked amazingly well. The problems are it's short lived, the crash is horrendous and after awhile the effects begin to reverse (become more introverted and less outgoing).  Memantine turned me into a zombie...

What I did learn though is that dopamine seems to be the issue with me, as it seems to be with most everyone else on this site. So I want to try the supplement route now and from what I've heard Tyrosine, Rhodiola and Manganese are the big players. So I went out today and bout some Tyrosine and Tryptophan but I'm not sure exactly how I should take these.

Should I take the Tyrosine in the morning on an empty stomach and the Tryptophan before bed? Or should I take the Tryptophan with the Tyrosine? How many times a day should I dose and at what amount?

Thanks as always, in advance! Andrew


----------



## DrewDrewson

Well in case anyone's interested, I took 1000mg of the Tryptophan before bed and it didn't help at all for sleep. Not so sure about mood or relaxation as I'm generally relaxed and in a decent mood before bed anyway. I did have a hard time getting to sleep though. My mind wouldn't shut the hell up. That's the usual reason for my insomnia though. I come up with all these ideas and have all this inner dialogue going on. I'm sure some of you are familiar. 

The Tyrosine however had a noticeable effect. I took 1000mg this morning on an empty stomach. I woke up later with energy, and always a tell tale sign that dopamine is being affected in me is when I start unnoticabely driving fast. When I smoked I did this, same deal when I took dexedrine. I think tomorrow I'm going to try 1500mg and see where that takes me. Hopefully I don't end up with a speeding ticket. :no


----------



## ElRey

I think I read somewhere that if you take tryptophan before bed, it is converted into melatonin, not serotonin. Not sure if that is correct, but you might want to take it during the day if you want it converted into serotonin.


----------



## DrewDrewson

Hmm wasn't aware of that elrey. Sure as hell didn't put me to sleep though lol. I might give it a try during the day even though I'm not really chasing a serotonin high, more a dopamine one . I bought it just in case the tyrosine made me too edgy or something like that but I've felt great all day. It's like I've been given the confidence I've been looking for and energy and just general perkiness. I can look people in the eye easier and am more interested in conversation. It's been a damn good day today, at least on a personal level... And you don't feel drugged like on stims. Sometimes I was a little wary of talking on Dex because my pupils were massive and I sounded so hyper. Tyrosine feels like a more controlled version of speed if that makes sense.

Anyone have anything else to add, like how to cycle this stuff or more effective ways to use it or the tryptophan? Doin good after day one though


----------



## peaceandlove09

I would cycle it. 

2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. 

Or 5 days on, take weekends off. 

Remember to take some time off from it, because when you raise dopamine, on a longer timeline, you lower seratonin. 

So you might wanna alternate between Tyrosine and 5 HTP

Take my advice with a grain of salt. But definetly take some time off from the Tyrosine. Cycle it. 


Cheers


----------



## DrewDrewson

Thanks Eric, I was thinking something like 5 days and then weekends off. Or 3 weeks on one week off or something. I didn't know it lowered serotonin, I thought the problem was more due to the dopamine getting acclimated and not releasing as much. 

What would it feel like if serotonin was lowered becuase I don't think I'm a big fan of it anyway lol. Being sedated and uninterested in everything doesn't sound good to me. But that's probably when you have too much of it I'd assume.

You say to alternate between 5 htp and tyrosine but what if I just took tryptophan every night and tyrosine every morning? Do you think that would balance things out well? Or maybe Tyrosine in the morning and tryptophan midday?


----------



## Edwin

I did a few weeks of Tyrosine supplementation. One morning I woke up with very low serotonin levels and was panicky, and heavily emotional. Didn't take it since then.

It doesn't work nearly as good as Rhodiola does anyway, check out the topic I started on it.


----------



## DrewDrewson

I'm taking tryptophan every night hopefully to counteract any serotonin issues. Today I'm not quite as up as I was yesterday, but I'll continue on until I finish the bottle. Could just be that it's a gray day out today, or maybe it's just my mood fluctuating. Maybe I should up my dose, I dunno. I'll try not to overanalyze it.

I've heard Rhodiola's the best as far as dopamine supplements go. I don't know why I didn't pick that up instead but I think I will when I run out of Tyrosine. I'll be sure to check out your topic Edwin, thanks!

Some good dopaminergic meds need to be produced besides amphetmaines dammit :mum


----------



## DrewDrewson

Just read your thread on rhodiola Edwin. Sounds like it started off well but fell kinda short. But you're giving it another shot now without the prozac right? maybe that 3 week on one week off cycle will work alright for you. Don't know if you read that Manganese thread but that's another dopaminergic to consider. 

Or maybe we could all just drop out of this hypersocial society and start our own commune of SAers. No more worries then! We already have this cyber commune going on, let's make it a reality lol


----------



## peaceandlove09

DrewDrewson said:


> You say to alternate between 5 htp and tyrosine but what if I just took tryptophan every night and tyrosine every morning? Do you think that would balance things out well? Or maybe Tyrosine in the morning and tryptophan midday?


Actually, I am reading a book by an MD and he recommends to take Tyrosine with 5 htp.

His recommendation is 150mg 5htp in the afternoon, and before bed.

And 500-1000mg Tyrosine three times a day. Before breakfast, mid morning, and mid afternoon.

I have started taking 5 htp today. I am going to add Tyrosine next week.

These are precursors to seratonin and dopamine so hopefully it will be a decent alternative to anti depressants (with a lot less sides)

Cheers


----------



## peaceandlove09

DrewDrewson said:


> I've heard Rhodiola's the best as far as dopamine supplements go. I don't know why I didn't pick that up instead but I think I will when I run out of Tyrosine. I'll be sure to check out your topic Edwin, thanks!
> 
> Some good dopaminergic meds need to be produced besides amphetmaines dammit :mum


Really?

I would think Tyrosine is pretty good since it's a precursor to dopamine.

I don't know much abour Rhodiola

Cheers


----------



## peaceandlove09

The book I am reading is called "The Ultra Mind Solution" by Marc Hyman MD

The author recommends 5 htp (or tryptophan, but 5 htp is better) and Tyrosine, and suggests using it for about 6 months and then taper it off. 

You want to start with 5 htp, and then after a week, add Tyrosine. 

The goal is to balance your neurotransmitters. 

By taking both, you are hitting both dopamine and seratonin, and it should (hopefully) have a synergistic effect and create a good balance. 


Cheers,


----------



## DrewDrewson

That's really interesting Eric. Sounds good in theory, hopefully it works out for you. So he feels that after 6 months of using these two supps it will kind of reset your brain? Kinda like taking hydrocortisone for several months and then stoppig to reset your cortisol levels.

Funny though my bottle of tryptophan says to take it 3x a day but the tyrosine bottle mentions taking it only once a day. The tyrosine seems to last all day. 

Does he mention any other supps besides those two to hit any other parts of the brain?


----------



## renski

Don't take them together, thats for sure. I took L-Tryptophan for about 4 months before giving it up. I started taking it for sleeping problems, it helped a bit with my sleep, but really it did nothing for the bad nights.

After a while it also made me apathetic, I wasn't motivated to do anything. 

Just my personal experience, but none of these things really worked for me. I'm taking Krill Oil on a daily basis now and no other medications or supplements and I feel good and I'm sleeping better then I ever have.


----------



## DrewDrewson

yeah tryptophan does nothing for my insomnia. I just take it to counterbalance the tyrosine, and I take it at night not in the morning with the tyrosine. Either 2mg of xanax or 200mg of benadryl is what it takes to put me out haha. 

I took 1500mg of tyrosine today and may have been sightly irritable because of it, but nothing major. I wasnt running over people or kicking children or anything. maybe I'll give 1500 another try tomorrow, i dunno. I'm definitely more social and outgoing on it though. It doesn't make me nervous or jittery either. still so far so good.


----------



## clovereater

i found that by taking tryptophan with high potency probiotics it worked much better. Bifidobacteria appears to increase levels of tryptophan in the brain. see this article http://hbcprotocols.com/probioticarticle/
the probiotics dose had to be very high for me though. i used to take about 5 or 6 caps each containing 20-30 billion organisms. i could then lower my tryptophan intake to about half and get a better effect. i felt great on this combo but the cost of the probiotics was too much for me.


----------



## robertz

I've been a 5-HTP / L-Tyrosine user for several months, and all I can say is that they are NOT the solution. Nowadays I'm looking more into detox and finding the root of my problems (candida, mercury overload, ...).


----------



## DrewDrewson

Mostly what I've heard about candida is that it's largely a hoax. A candida infestation would cause your tongue to turn white and such. Our problems with anxiety are obviously part nature (genetics) and part nurture (upbringing, environment etc). There's major imbalances in our brain chemistry that need to be fixed. And possibly other parts of our body as well. Problem is we know next to nothing about the human body, especially the brain. 

I have autoimmune problems and the medical community knows not one definite treatment or cure for these problems along with countless other diseases in the world. 

But just as a car can be fixed and a phone or a computer or stereo, OUR BODIES CAN BE FIXED. Unfortunately we're very complex and have a long way to go to fully understanding ourselves. We built cars, and phones and computers ourselves so we know how to recognize and fix the problems. Our bodies are products of mother nature though and she's quite the elusive one. 

A good way to detox though if you're interested is fasting. At least that's what I've heard. I lasted two days once and couldn't stop thinking of food after those two days. It's tough. But best of luck to you.


----------



## peaceandlove09

Hey Drew

Yeah exactly.

He recommends supplementing with 5 htp (seratonin) and L Tyrosine (dopamine) to create a good neurotransmitter balance. He says that after 6 months you might not need these supp's anymore, because your brain will have a good balance.

It makes sense to me, and 5 htp and L tyrosine are amino acids which convert to seratonin and dopamine, so the science is sound, and less sides than anti depressants.

Anti depressants work by "recycling" the serotonin you already have. And most don't target dopamine which probably causes all the sexual problems people have on them.

Cheers,



DrewDrewson said:


> That's really interesting Eric. Sounds good in theory, hopefully it works out for you. So he feels that after 6 months of using these two supps it will kind of reset your brain? Kinda like taking hydrocortisone for several months and then stoppig to reset your cortisol levels.
> 
> Funny though my bottle of tryptophan says to take it 3x a day but the tyrosine bottle mentions taking it only once a day. The tyrosine seems to last all day.
> 
> Does he mention any other supps besides those two to hit any other parts of the brain?


----------



## peaceandlove09

renski said:


> Don't take them together, thats for sure. I took L-Tryptophan for about 4 months before giving it up. I started taking it for sleeping problems, it helped a bit with my sleep, but really it did nothing for the bad nights.
> 
> After a while it also made me apathetic, I wasn't motivated to do anything.


If you take L Tryptophan without L Tyrosine, then you are depleting your dopamine reserves. That is what probably caused the apathy.

You must supplement with both L Tryptophan AND a dopamine precursor like L Tyrosine or L Dopa

Cheers


----------



## peaceandlove09

robertz said:


> I've been a 5-HTP / L-Tyrosine user for several months, and all I can say is that they are NOT the solution. Nowadays I'm looking more into detox and finding the root of my problems (candida, mercury overload, ...).


Not the solution to what?

So far 5 htp is working well for my mood.

There is no "magic" pill or solution for social anxiety. But for depression/mood i think 5 htp and L Tyrosine is a pretty good bet.

Cheers


----------

