# Why do some believe Jesus is God?



## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

I read the other thread in this subforum and it seemed most think Jesus is God. Why so? And what do you think of these Scriptures?

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

49 Nathanael answered Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.”

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

He is all in one. God is the father of Jesus but he is also Jesus and the holy spirit. Imagine 3 forms that combine to make one...they are different but one.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

I personally believe He is the Son of God. Just because He is one with God or the Spirit doesn't mean He is God. There is only One God. We all have the Spirit of God, doesn't mean we are God. I have hundreds of verses to proof He is Son of God. Probably the only one people use to justify He is God is 'Before Abraham, I AM'. But He always talks to His Father in heaven. He asked His disciples who He was and they said Son of God. Even the demons proclaimed He is the Son of God. Even the anti-christ will deny the Son of God. And wouldn't they know best?


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@Kevin001

In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the [Catholic] Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin."-Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica observes: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament." The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly states: "The N[ew] T[estament] does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. 'The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence' [said Protestant theologian Karl Barth]."
Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: "To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the Trinity was apparently unknown; &#8230; they say nothing about it." (Origin and Evolution of Religion) Historian Arthur Weigall notes: "Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear." (The Paganism in Our Christianity)

4*Hear, O Israel: The*Lord*our God, the*Lord*is one.

55*But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit,*looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

Well actually God is the holy trinity: father, son and the holy spirit.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

RenegadeReloaded said:


> Well actually God is the holy trinity: father, son and the holy spirit.


I'm a Christian but we were never taught that at the worship place I go to. Reread my earlier post.

And a Catholic authority says that the Trinity "is not &#8230; directly and immediately [the] word of God." (New Catholic Encyclopedia)

^Even the Catholic Encyclopedia will tell you the Trinity is not the word of God. It was built from interpretation from humans in the 4th century. Why would you believe a interpretation of humans over the Bible? Why was ever up for interpretation in the first place though? Jesus talks about the true, only one God his father in many Scriptures.

18*And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
9*But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll.*Worship God!

^The above scripture someone tries to worship Jesus but he quickly warns them not to, that only belongs to God.

15*The Son is the image*of the invisible God,*the firstborn*over all creation.

^The Bible describes God as the creator and the one with no beginning. Well it turns out Jesus was created. And some may not know, but if you look for it you can find Gods real name in you're Bible.

The Encyclopedia Americana says: ��Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on?the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.�� (1956), Vol.?XXVII, p. 294


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

Kovu said:


> I'm a Christian but we were never taught that at the worship place I go to. Reread my earlier post.
> 
> And a Catholic authority says that the Trinity "is not &#8230; directly and immediately [the] word of God." (New Catholic Encyclopedia)
> 
> ...


That is what I was thought. But the Bible can be and is interpreted in many many ways, so, that's not news anymore. I don't believe the interpretations of the Bible or the Bible anymore. I just said what I head from all the priests and read in a million religions books: God is the trinity.

Now to be fair, if I was God I wouldn't write a book so subject of interpretation, full of metaphors and allegories. And if still some priests insisted to understand it wrong, just send the holy spirit to sort things out or talk directly to the priest. It's not like it's impossible to do or something, it's not even hard, God did it many times in the past.


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## fallingalien22 (Oct 10, 2016)

Christian doctrine of trinity is confusing for me. I might be wrong but as far as I understand it there is one God with three form : Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Father is in heaven. Son (Jesus) was on earth and now in heaven. Holy Spirit is inside every christian? And I always wondering... if there is son and there is father where is the mother? Mother Mary? Is christian also worship her as a mother of God? If God almighty, why God choose to be a Father not a Mother? So God has gender and the gender is a man? if there was no Mary then there will be no Jesus on earth? If God the Most Powerful why God need human (Mary) to gave birth himself? And why Jesus (God) pray to Father (God) in heaven? Is that means God talking to himself? How could one equal three and three equal one? One thing have three separate form?

I understand when we talk about spirituality sometimes we cant use logic and just have faith and believe it. When I'm wondering why God decided to created me as me, in my normal country, have parents, not struggle with food or water, dont have to worry with war. And on the other side of the world there are people (human just like all of us) who have to fight for their land, limited food and water, scared of bullet and explosion, see a horrible death of family member, holding gun since kid while some of us play video games. We dont choose where we born, who our parents, man or woman. That things... we cant use our sense or logic for answer "Why God created me like this?" type of question. But that doesnt mean those things doesnt make any sense. I decided to just believe that God created every human in the best form and have the best plan that we as human cant never understand with logic and just have to believe it and do our best. Its the best of me to born as I am and also other people. But its our decision to choose how we live and die one day (good or bad person).

I personally think in spirituality we use logic and faith or in some case eventually just faith (but doesnt mean we dont use logic because things dont make any sense). And when things seems dont make sense we cant purely just believe it. We got to questioned it and try to find the answer. Thats why God created human with mind and coscience, so we could learn and thinking, find answer then choose to believe or not. How every people use their logic or way of thinking is different to each other based on education, how they raised, experience. We have to use our mind carefully because sometimes some factor like experience, surrounding, what we see or hear affect our mind in wrong way that ended up our mind could fool ourselves. Like I have no idea how Darwin use his mind and came up with the idea that human and apes have common ancestor. And in trinity case however carefully i try to understand it, its just work opposite with my mind. Its like forcing myself to believe 3=1, 1+1+1=1. And so many question that I couldnt find the answer. For me God is God, human is human, spirit is spirit. God is only one. And Jesus is amazing human but not God.
@Kovu You said you're christian but if you dont believe in trinity and dont believe Jesus is God maybe... you're not christian? CMIIW


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@fallingalien22 I am definitely Christian. Not every church is the same in the stuff it teaches. Since you asked, the reason why God had Jesus born as a human was because the Devil challenged him. After turning Adam and Eve away the Devil said every human would do the same. So to prove him wrong Jesus became a human and did right by God until death. As for a Mother Mary, no.

31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

God found favor in Mary and her have the *son* of God. Not God himself. Mary was a descendant of David in the Bible, who was a King.

If you're wondering about Wars and why they happen you could pm and I'll explain in there. If you read Matthew 4:1-11 tho you might get a hint.

You're right God did create us with a mind of and conscious, he created humans in his image. Which makes it even more confusing Catholics came up with him having three faces lol.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

Becuse the New Testament say that he is.

Take a look: http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

Kovu said:


> @*Kevin001*
> 
> In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the [Catholic] Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin."-Catechism of the Catholic Church.
> 
> ...


The ot is not clear that god is one, in one verse it says that "the ancient of days" and "the lamb that got crucified" are worshipped in heaven. But ot also say that only god is worshipped so who the hell is "the acient one" and "the lamb" that gets worshiped? And in one ot-verse god says that he will get crucified on earth.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

fallingalien22 said:


> Christian doctrine of trinity is confusing for me. I might be wrong but as far as I understand it there is one God with three form : Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Father is in heaven. Son (Jesus) was on earth and now in heaven. Holy Spirit is inside every christian? And I always wondering... if there is son and there is father where is the mother? Mother Mary? Is christian also worship her as a mother of God? If God almighty, why God choose to be a Father not a Mother? So God has gender and the gender is a man? if there was no Mary then there will be no Jesus on earth? If God the Most Powerful why God need human (Mary) to gave birth himself? And why Jesus (God) pray to Father (God) in heaven? Is that means God talking to himself? How could one equal three and three equal one? One thing have three separate form?
> 
> I understand when we talk about spirituality sometimes we cant use logic and just have faith and believe it. When I'm wondering why God decided to created me as me, in my normal country, have parents, not struggle with food or water, dont have to worry with war. And on the other side of the world there are people (human just like all of us) who have to fight for their land, limited food and water, scared of bullet and explosion, see a horrible death of family member, holding gun since kid while some of us play video games. We dont choose where we born, who our parents, man or woman. That things... we cant use our sense or logic for answer "Why God created me like this?" type of question. But that doesnt mean those things doesnt make any sense. I decided to just believe that God created every human in the best form and have the best plan that we as human cant never understand with logic and just have to believe it and do our best. Its the best of me to born as I am and also other people. But its our decision to choose how we live and die one day (good or bad person).
> 
> ...


No, Jesus has always existed. He said he was before abraham with is own words and john the apostel said that jesus made the universium.

God has not mother, "father" "son" is just words, its not litterly, not in the way you use this words for humans. God is spirit, he is THE force in the unversium, that upholds the nature laws etc.

Beliving in Jesus and following him is being a christian.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

ljubo said:


> Becuse the New Testament say that he is.
> 
> Take a look: http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html


Isaiah 9:6 does call Jesus a mighty God but that still doesn't mean Trinity.

10*Ye are my witnesses, saith the*Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
15*The Son is the image*of the invisible God,*the firstborn*over all creation.

Jesus was formed, so he isn't God talking in verse 10.

82*God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
6*I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Now just because thier is only one God, doesn't mean he didn't create other powerful beings like Jesus who he also gave this title.

17*And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the*Lord*appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

But God does make a distinction between them, he is the Almighty one.

18**No man has seen God at any time;*the only-begotten god*who is at the Father's side*is the one who has explained Him.
7*During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions*with fervent cries and tears*to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard*because of his reverent submission.
25**Jesus answered them: "I told you, and yet you do not believe. The works that I am doing in my Father's name, these bear witness about me.

25*At that time Jesus said,*"I praise you, Father,*Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children

Thier has been wise scholars and intrepreters who have tried to learn the Bible but have done so falsely. Catholics have deviated from the original Christian teachings of the Bible. Yet stick a young child and have him read the Bible and even he will be able to understand it.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

DyingHearts said:


> Jesus is a prophet of God. He's human just like the other prophets.


Isa is the islamic name for Jesus.

Maryam is the islamic name for maria.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@ljubo

19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Question: "What is the meaning of the word hallelujah?"

Answer: The word hallelujah is most familiar in the context of the "Hallelujah Chorus" from Handel's Messiah. Hallelujah is a Hebrew word meaning "praise ye YAH (*Yahweh*)." Hallelujah, as a transliteration, appears four times in the NIV and NASB (Revelation 19:1-6)-it takes the form "alleluia" in the King James Version.


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## Overdrive (Sep 19, 2015)

:cig


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

DyingHearts said:


> I know


okay

did you know allah does not mean "god" but "THE god"? look it up.

the arabic word for god is actually "ilah".


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/10-things-yahweh-means


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

DyingHearts said:


> Verstuurd vanaf mijn met Tapatalk


This is not arabic.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

Kovu said:


> http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/10-things-yahweh-means


He told Moses "i am what i am".

Maybe god really meant "mind your own business" and want to keeps his identity hidden

"i am what i am" can not be a name for god......


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

ljubo said:


> He told Moses "i am what i am".
> 
> Maybe god really meant "mind your own business" and want to keeps his identity hidden
> 
> "i am what i am" can not be a name for god......


You read it wrong. It's saying how the original Hebrew name is Yahweh and the English Bible translates it. Basically his name means "I am". Just like how anyone's name can have a meaning. But he is indeed Jesus father.

19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Remember what Alleluia means from the last page.

19 After these things I heard[a] a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord* our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her." 3 Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!" 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, "Amen! Alleluia!" 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, "Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both[c] small and great!"
6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the[d] Lord God Omnipotent reigns!*


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

So, if you believe Jesus and God are two separate entities, when do you decide to pray to god and when do you pray to jesus? 

How to choose?


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

VanDamMan said:


> So, if you believe Jesus and God are two separate entities, when do you decide to pray to god and when do you pray to jesus?
> 
> How to choose?


You don't pray to Jesus you pray to God like he did.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What Jesus says of those who try to worship him.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

http://www.eliyah.com/compref.html Read this.

Gods name appears in the Bible over 7000 times, yet some Churches have changed the name into a generic title "Lord". Why have they done this? Does it help push thier notion of a Trinity? In fact whenever Lord Jesus and the original name are together they change it.

Wherever the two names stand together in the Old Testament as a compound name for God, they are rendered "Sovereign LORD.""

Why would they change his name to Sovereign Lord whenever him and Lord Jesus were together? Wouldn't this be confusing?

13*For*"whoever calls on the name of the*LORD shall be saved."

How can you do this if you don't know his name?

23*And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I*am*the*Lord," says the Lord*God, "when I am hallowed in you before their eyes.

3 *O magnify the*Lord*with me, and let us exalt his name together.

4*And in that day you will say:

"Praise the*Lord, call upon His name;
Declare His deeds among the peoples,
Make mention that His name is exalted.

6*Moreover He said, "I*am*the God of your father-the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

16*When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He[a]*saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.17*And suddenly a voice*came*from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

3*But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ,*and the head of the woman is man,[a]*and the head of Christ is God.*

He is also Jacob's God. And Jacob is another name for Jesus. Now you can see Jesus is not god, you shouldn't follow a religion such as the Trinity just because you like the idea of it.

2 Timothy 4:3 (BBE)*For the time will come when they will not take the true teaching; but, moved by their desires, they will get for themselves a great number of teachers for the pleasure of hearing them;


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Jesus is half-God. God is Jesus' dad. Mary is his earthly mom.

He was here to experience everything full-humans have, and to remind us that He survived it all, died for something He didn't do to atone for our sins all these years later, and that by believing in Him, we will join Him in Heaven when our physical bodies fail.

Jesus is DA MAN - yesterday, today, and tomorrow, yo!


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

millenniumman75 said:


> Jesus is half-God. God is Jesus' dad. Mary is his earthly mom.
> 
> He was here to experience everything full-humans have, and to remind us that He survived it all, died for something He didn't do to atone for our sins all these years later, and that by believing in Him, we will join Him in Heaven when our physical bodies fail.
> 
> Jesus is DA MAN - yesterday, today, and tomorrow, yo!


You have no biblical evidence to support this. Every scripture where the two are together lists Jesus at his right hand. Christianty was unitarian believing God was one person. 4th century catholics created ths Trinity with thier own terminology. Jesus always said he was weaker than the father unlike Catholic teaching that they're of equal essence.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Dpg7mXZjvg

I did not want to write it all out.


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## BoxJellyfish (Jul 28, 2015)

So when people talk about Jesus they are talking about god? This confuses me.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Kovu said:


> You have no biblical evidence to support this. Every scripture where the two are together lists Jesus at his right hand. Christianty was unitarian believing God was one person. 4th century catholics created ths Trinity with thier own terminology. Jesus always said he was weaker than the father unlike Catholic teaching that they're of equal essence.


Hey friend, Have you read 1 John 5:7? yes the word "Trinity" is not in The Bible. But this verse clearly says that God is one God three persons, God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The word clearly says that Jesus is part of the Godhead and is God, look at Hebrews 1:8, Zechariah 12:10, Micah 5:2, John 1:1,14).


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

Andres124 said:


> Hey friend, Have you read 1 John 5:7? yes the word "Trinity" is not in The Bible. But this verse clearly says that God is one God three persons, God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The word clearly says that Jesus is part of the Godhead and is God, look at Hebrews 1:8, Zechariah 12:10, Micah 5:2, John 1:1,14).


Even many Trinitarians admit that 1 John 5:7 in the KJV is spurious (not genuine; not authentic; untrue; counterfeit). Highly respected trinitarian scholar, minister (Trinity Church), Professor (University of Glasgow and Marburg University), author (The Daily Study Bible Series, etc.), and Bible translator Dr. William Barclay states the following about this passage:

*Note on 1 John 5:7*

"In the Authorized Version [KJV] there is a verse which we have altogether omitted [in Barclay's NT translation]. It reads, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one."

"The Revised Version omits this verse, and does not even mention it in the margin, and none of the newer translations includes it. It is quite certain that it does not belong to the original text."


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@Andres124

http://coptictruch.blogspot.com

It has been postulated that the Egyptian Coptic translators of the 2nd-3rd centuries would not have meant to say that "the Word was a god" -- even though that is precisely what they wrote -- ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤΕ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ -- because their translation would have been informed by the theology of the great Egyptian theologians like Clement of Alexandria. *As translated into English by (Trinitarian) scholars, the writings of Clement appear to promote the concept that "the Word was God." *

Trinitarian scholars changed it from the original words.

John 1 1 correctly translated from Greece says that the word was* a *god. Not the Almighty God . Which if you go back to the prior page in this thread i gave a scripture where the Almight God gave others the title of God, but they were not all the same.

82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Kovu said:


> You have no biblical evidence to support this. Every scripture where the two are together lists Jesus at his right hand. Christianty was unitarian believing God was one person. 4th century catholics created ths Trinity with thier own terminology. Jesus always said he was weaker than the father unlike Catholic teaching that they're of equal essence.


It's all over the Bible. Even in the Old Testament, there was a reference to a coming messiah - some 400 years before Jesus was born - to the Virgin Mary. Gabriel the angel told her she would have a baby despite being engaged to Joseph. He raised Jesus even though he is God's son.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

We have the council of Nicea to thank for this. They began this discussion about if Jesus is the Son of God or also God. Also can God be born again? If Jesus was God why did get born again through a human while He created Himself and Jesus?

Let's ask the expert who were there. Was Jesus shizophrenic talking to Himself? Or was God talking through Him?

Is God fearful or is not anythign possible to Him?

"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will” (Matthew 26:39)

The high priest asked:

"The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God". "You have said so", Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven" (Matthew 26:38)

The Roman soldier said:

"Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God" (Matthew 27:54)

The demons asked:

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" (Matthew 8:29)

Who did Jesus told to worship?

"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him" (John 4:21-23)

Who has send Jesus?

"For the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape" (John 5:36-39)


To who did Jesus tell us to pray?


"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name" (Matthew 6:9)


Jesus did not want honor but only to honor God.


"I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" (John 5:41-45)


From who does He get the power and might?


"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself" (John 5:26)


"He must increase, but I must decrease. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:30-36)


What is Jesus will and who send Him?



"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work" (John 4:34)


You cannot even come to the Son without God:



"Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father" (John 6:65)


And who gives Jesus the power?



"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me" (John 5:30)

Would God say: anything is impossible for me? I can't do nothing by myself?





So God's own Son makes a clear distinghuisment between Him and the Father God. He speaks the words of the Father and let's the Holy Spirit work through Him. God spoke through Jesus. He cannot do anything without the the Spirit of God. He says God is above all and that we need to serve Him only. He is the way/door to God, not the door Himself.


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## aquariusrising (May 19, 2014)

I can't understand it personally...it is a hard subject. By my knowledge He is not God but some clone of Him. Not a separate God..but "part" of Him. Huge division about it because God says He is ONE but Jesus to me proved He was God. It makes my head spin.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Kovu said:


> Even many Trinitarians admit that 1 John 5:7 in the KJV is spurious (not genuine; not authentic; untrue; counterfeit). Highly respected trinitarian scholar, minister (Trinity Church), Professor (University of Glasgow and Marburg University), author (The Daily Study Bible Series, etc.), and Bible translator Dr. William Barclay states the following about this passage:
> 
> *Note on 1 John 5:7*
> 
> ...


I don't agree with you. The KJV was translated from The Textus Receptus original Greek. Satan doesn't want people to believe the truth, that is why he omits verses. Be careful what you believe, because Scholars aren't always right. The Bible was not written for Scholars only but for lay people as well. It seems like you are on the internet too much. Most of the newer Bible versions are corrupted.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

Kovu said:


> @Andres124
> 
> http://coptictruch.blogspot.com
> 
> ...


This verse indicates that God judges among rulers and kings, not literal pagan gods. For God knows no other gods exist, but Him.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@Andres124 Thier is no changing you're mind, you're free to believe what you want to and thats cool. Ive just piled up all these scriptures of info for all those who want to know.

The reason why Catholics changed that scripture was because it's not in the original bible, they studied it. You talk of omitting stuff but Gods name was changed to a generic Lord title in the kjv. And it appears over 7000 times. And Almighty God didnt give human kings the title of God that's crazy.

Edit:He's not talking about pagan gods. It's angels.


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## Andres124 (Oct 23, 2012)

These verses clearly show that Jesus Christ is God. There are always going to be some people that are going to deny Christ as God, even though the Scriptures clearly shows that He is God. Just as many Jews to this day deny Jesus as the Messiah, so will there be people denying Christ as God. 

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of these shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made fesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

@Andres124 Every scripture that mentions the two together says Jesus is at Gods right hand. Third is nothing in the Bible about them doing a Dragon Ball Z fusion and merging. Andres124 you can post as many scriptures that say Jesus is Gods son as you want it doesn't help you're argument.

You posted John 1 1 again. Translated from Greek to English it says he was a god. And this isn't unheard of. I'm not looking for but third is a scripture that says Angels are above Humans so to them it's like a god.

6*I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Christianity when it first formed was Unitarian and believe God was one person and thier was no teaching of a Trinity. And do you know where Christanity started? Jerusalem! Jesus was born right outside there and it was one of the first places he taught!

Jesus also said false religion would rise up when he left. Does this not align with Trinity teaching showing up in the fourth century???


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