# Sticky  Nardil questions



## mr t

I've been on nardil for about 13 months. I am totally symptom free of SA!!!

I come back to these forums to help push people to try nardil. Unfortunately it has a bad reputation for harsh side effects (I experience none) and bad food drug interactions, which are very easy to avoid.

I have probably been PMed by around 10 people concerning nardil, I only come on this forum to give advice and help out now.

Please feel free to contact me when any questions of Nardil- dosing, side effects, anything!! I know how bad dealing with SA sucks and controls your life, so I want to pass on any knowledge that could help those who currently take nardil or are considering it!!!

*NOTE: WHEN STARTING NARDIL START AT 15MG AND INCREASE DOSAGE BY 15MG EACH WEEK UNTIL YOU REACH 60MG!!! A HUGE MISTAKE PEOPLE MAKE IS STARTING AT A HIGHER DOSE. YOUR DOCTOR MIGHT WANT YOU TO START HIGHER BUT PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE AND SLOWLY WORK UP YOUR DOSAGE!!! YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO ADJUST!!! THIS IS KEY!!!!*

Once again, contact with me to ask any questions, I would love to help!!!

You won't be bothering me at all. I get on this forums a couple times a week so I might not answer your message right away but I will get to it!!

Good luck to all!!!

-mr t

Updated info by request***

wikipedia has a pretty good summary on nardil, mechanism of action etc..

Nardil has interaction with B6 which can lower B6 levels. B6 is critical in neurotransmitter synthesis and feeling good over all.

**I recommend supplementing a good multivitamin daily, possibly B complex but the multivitamin should provide adequate B vitamins. *Also supplementing ~2000-3000 IU of Vitamin D is great for mood. Even if you are getting plenty of sunlight, according to studies there is a trend in lower Vitamin D levels and depression. Vitamin D is also crucial for NT synthesis. I supplement vitamin D, get plenty of sunlight, and still actually had a deficiency when I got a blood test!!

*As for daytime fatigue: supplementing these vitamins can definitely help. Try drinking some coffee also, i found that has helped me alot. *Hypotension*-lowered blood pressure- is a common cause of fatigue while on nardil. You can get a cheap BP cuff at any local drug store to check your BP levels. For hypotension, drinking plenty of water daily can help increase your blood pressure, as well as increased salt in diet.

For persistent daytime fatigue: If you are on nardil for a while and fatigue is not getting better, talk to your doctor and consider trying provigil/nuvigil(modafinil/armodafinil). They are unique stimulants that destroy fatigue, do not have too bad of a crash, and importantly never greatly increased my anxiety. I prefer nuvigil over provigil, because it is the isolated R-isomer of provigil which is thought to provide most of the benefits of the drug. Nuvigil gave me less headaches, less anxiety, and less unwanted stimulatory affects such as high heart rate.

**It has been stated by my doctor by an efficacy report he made that there is a 60% percent chance patients will greatly respond to either Nardil or Parnate. Nardil seems the obvious choice first when treating SA. Basically MAOIs are a great option.

Many worry about the food interactions. The list of food interactions needs to be updated because it is way overhyped. I can eat most of what is actually on the list. Be careful though and if you are trying something that is prohibited but has been shown to be fine to eat, just eat a little bit and see how you feel.

**For me, my diet has not changed really at all. I mainly avoid very aged cheeses such as blue cheese. I can eat cheddar, provologne, mozzerella, jack etc.. Avoid AGED BEERS, ESPECIALLY *TAP BEER*. I drink plenty of beer, which i dont recommend doing anyway, but i make sure they arent too aged like some microbrews can be. Start slow at first anyway. Also avoiding aged meats like pepperoni and others. Pepperoni on chain pizzas and most others are fine. I eat pizza all the time, no problems.

Further questions of food interactions, PM me.

The drug interactions like cold medicines are much more severe and can be life threatening. These are obviously very easy to avoid.


----------



## mr t

Also feel free to post questions on this thread. You might have the same questions as other people!


----------



## Payn

I wonder, Is it possible that for some people Nardil just does not work ? and I also guess, that there are several people who have on Nardil probably more side effects than others and also maybe some of their side effects are more irritating...because of that, they decide to stop taking Nardil.


----------



## CD700

Have you put on weight ?


----------



## spartan7

I bet his SA wasnt as bad as some of us


----------



## viper1431

I'd say it doesn't work for some people, but then the same goes for most meds. For some people ssri's don't work, for others the tricyclics dont' work. Other people here havn't had any luck with benzos working.. and so on.


----------



## mr t

> I wonder, Is it possible that for some people Nardil just does not work ? and I also guess, that there are several people who have on Nardil probably more side effects than others and also maybe some of their side effects are more irritating...because of that, they decide to stop taking Nardil.


The psych i go see now in New Orleans is brilliant. Hes got an MD and PhD in Neuropharmacology and is department head in both that LSU medical school in New Orleans.

When I first started Nardil he said theres a 60% chance that a person will significantly respond to either Nardil or Parnate. Nardil is often used first over parnate because of its effect on increasing GABA.



blakeyz said:


> Have you put on weight ?


No, I have no weight gain problems. I was on 60mg for a while and then backed down to 45mg for a maintenance dose. If you do have weight problems with nardil or other drugs, often metformin is precribed to counteract that. Its the most common drug prescribed for diabetes, but is also used to combat drug induced weight gain. It increases the sensivity of insulin to its receptors so less is released and less carbohydrates that you eat are stored.

Metformin has been around for a very long time. Its pretty harmless. Ive taken it before when I was on another med years ago. You take it with meals. The only problem I ever had was slight nausea if I took it before meal rather than after I had eaten.


----------



## mr t

spartan7 said:


> I bet his SA wasnt as bad as some of us


Suprise, suprise. Im shocked you didnt spam with your same post that nardil doesnt help after reformulation.

Congrats on changing up your post.


----------



## mcgilicutty

I was on nardil one time and that was the one and only med that I started without reading about side effects because I became manic, not knowing what manic symptoms even were until I read up on them. And my diagnosis is unipolar.
I'm glad to hear that it's working for you. I'm always glad to hear when meds work for people. Unfortunately, after trying quite a few, I have yet to find one that works. Onward.


----------



## Govinda

mr T, That's awesome that it works for you. It always gives me hope when someone breaks out of SA, no matter what method they took to get there. And believe me, if no one else take you up on your offer for questions, I'll keep you busy all by myself.

I've been on it for nine weeks and I keep getting into this weird pattern where it starts to work for like 5 days and then it bottoms out, then like 3 days of crap, then it comes back. I hope it eventually works on a regular basis for me. Anyway, here are my questions -- oh and I've worked up to 60 mg over 9 weeks --

1) My Greatest fear is that it works just long enough for me to settle into a new life and then it abandons me. *Do you know anything about the phenomenon of nardil working then quitting?* Any studies or hard numbers? Any ways to prevent this (other than dumb, genetic luck)?

2) *Do myoclonic jerks resulting from raising the dose too fast eventually subside?
*
3) (last one for now) *Did nardil for you ever make things slightly worse before better?* It seems to do this for me. In the few days before it starts to work it actually has the opposite effect on me: nervousness, depression, lack of motivation, different kind of shakiness, etc.

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.


----------



## spartan7

The old nardil was the best though.


----------



## puppy

Are you sure you don't want to bold that, spartan7?


----------



## spartan7

nardil made me gain sooo much weight all in the belly too, the girls said it looked bad, so i quit that **** fast


----------



## CD700

Govinda said:


> mr T, That's awesome that it works for you. It always gives me hope when someone breaks out of SA, no matter what method they took to get there. And believe me, if no one else take you up on your offer for questions, I'll keep you busy all by myself.
> 
> I've been on it for nine weeks and I keep getting into this weird pattern where it starts to work for like 5 days and then it bottoms out, then like 3 days of crap, then it comes back. I hope it eventually works on a regular basis for me. Anyway, here are my questions -- oh and I've worked up to 60 mg over 9 weeks --
> 
> 1) My Greatest fear is that it works just long enough for me to settle into a new life and then it abandons me. *Do you know anything about the phenomenon of nardil working then quitting?* Any studies or hard numbers? Any ways to prevent this (other than dumb, genetic luck)?
> 
> 2) *Do myoclonic jerks resulting from raising the dose too fast eventually subside?
> *
> 3) (last one for now) *Did nardil for you ever make things slightly worse before better?* It seems to do this for me. In the few days before it starts to work it actually has the opposite effect on me: nervousness, depression, lack of motivation, different kind of shakiness, etc.
> 
> I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.


If you read through shyones diary he mentions having a similar pattern of working for for a few days and then stopping. He ended up having great success with Nardil so it may be worth a read for you. It's a big thread so you may have to search through it to find what you need.
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/just-managed-to-get-some-nardil-need-advice-127752/


----------



## Payn

mr t said:


> The psych i go see now in New Orleans is brilliant. Hes got an MD and PhD in Neuropharmacology and is department head in both that LSU medical school in New Orleans.
> 
> When I first started Nardil he said theres a 60% chance that a person will significantly respond to either Nardil or Parnate. Nardil is often used first over parnate because of its effect on increasing GABA.


When I first started with paroxetine, my doctor promised me 80% recovery. And second time another doctor promised me exactly the same thing with paroxetine.


----------



## Payn

These are all just bull**** ! I do not believe that! I have already passed all kind of medicines and therapies including the Nardil, unfortunately without success in my case


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> mr T, That's awesome that it works for you. It always gives me hope when someone breaks out of SA, no matter what method they took to get there. And believe me, if no one else take you up on your offer for questions, I'll keep you busy all by myself.
> 
> I've been on it for nine weeks and I keep getting into this weird pattern where it starts to work for like 5 days and then it bottoms out, then like 3 days of crap, then it comes back. I hope it eventually works on a regular basis for me. Anyway, here are my questions -- oh and I've worked up to 60 mg over 9 weeks --
> 
> 1) My Greatest fear is that it works just long enough for me to settle into a new life and then it abandons me. *Do you know anything about the phenomenon of nardil working then quitting?* Any studies or hard numbers? Any ways to prevent this (other than dumb, genetic luck)?
> 
> 2) *Do myoclonic jerks resulting from raising the dose too fast eventually subside?
> *
> 3) (last one for now) *Did nardil for you ever make things slightly worse before better?* It seems to do this for me. In the few days before it starts to work it actually has the opposite effect on me: nervousness, depression, lack of motivation, different kind of shakiness, etc.
> 
> I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.


Ive read that people who took old nardil stopped having success when it was reforumulated but I havent encountered people having it poop out on them. Some people think it does when they get a bit hypomanic when they first start and then that subsides but that isnt the true benefit of the nardil.

There are people that visit this forum that have been on nardil for over a decade and more. They generally have changed to a lower "maintenance" dose at some point in there treatment and still have great success.

I'm at 45mg now and have great success with it. The people who have been using it for more than a decade are generally at a dose of 15-30mg and bump it up if they have some big social event coming up.

I've been on it since beginning of may 2011 and have never had any poop out from it. I feel that its actually gotten more effective over time.

I havent had any of the myoclonic jerks that you are talking about. I worked my dosage up fairly slowly. started at 15mg for a week and then increased another 15mg each week until i reached 60mg.

I've always felt better on nardil. Of course I've had a few slumps in there but the trend has been positive. i always have decreased anxiety when i take it.

Before nardil I couldnt drink coffee because it would make me freak out. Now I drink a couple cups in the morning which has a good antidepressant effect and helps motivation. Possibly give that a shot.

Also try taking a multivitamin and Vitamin D ~3000 IUs daily, when you have are on nardil vitamin B6 can be lowered by interaction with nardil. Both B6 and Vitamin D are critical in neurotransmitter synthesis. Whenever i start taking vitamin D daily I generally experience a mood boost. Vitamin D is a great thing to take and alot of people with mood disorders might have a deficiency even if they do get plenty of sunlight. I'm pretty active and am outdoors plenty and i got tested for vitamin D deficiency and the results came back that my levels were too low. Hope this helps!!!

Ive got a couple questions for you.

What dosage did you start at and how did you work your way up?

What dosage are you taking now, how long have you been on it, how do you break up your dosage each day?


----------



## mr t

Payn said:


> When I first started with paroxetine, my doctor promised me 80% recovery. And second time another doctor promised me exactly the same thing with paroxetine.


I'm sorry to hear that he promised you recovery with paroxetine.

However, the doc i see has won top 100 psychs in U.S. award for probably the past 7 or 8 years. I forgot the exact number of plaques he has in the reception area. you have to wait a long time to see him because he is a psych that other docs send their patients too if they cant figure it out. Basically I'm saying this guy is reknowned and I trust what he says. I'm very lucky to be able to see him.

Promising 80 percent recovery from a drug is foolish. Thats different than saying that either Nardil or Parnate has a 60 percent chance of giving significant improvement. He wasnt promising success but suggested a great chance on one of these drugs to significantly help.

Tell me about your nardil experience if you would like to share. Dosage, duration, what dose you started on and worked your way up to, etc...


----------



## mr t

So far I've convinced a few people on these forums to start nardil and they have had great success.

I hope he doesnt mind mentioning his username, but one of them is Dr Hobo Scratch MD.

When I first was talking to him he had terrible SA and couldnt even leave his house. Last I've talked to him hes doing very well. Hes out and about like anyone else and is enjoying socializing with people now.


----------



## alte

How long did it take to work? How SA free are you now? (what can you do that you couldn't before?)


----------



## puppy

Can you elaborate on how maintenance dosing is supposed to work? I'm 5 weeks in on 60mg and wondering when and how much to lower my dose, if at all.

Thanks!


----------



## gilmourr

28 days into Nardil (@45 mg), works mildly for the depression, and moderately for anxiety. Again, it's still the best thing I currently have in my arsenal. 

Still getting pretty extreme tiredness during the day. Lasts until about 8 pm. That's pretty much my only side effect. I've been on 45 mg every day and I take it all at once. Not looking to space out my doses, but would you mind telling me if you had fatigue? If so, when did it stop?

Also, how heavy are you in kg's? Curious as to whether I need the 1mg/1kg rumor. I am 84 kg.


----------



## Govinda

Its my 10th week on nardil. My doctor started me on 45 mg broken up into 3 doses, one at each meal. I went up to 60 about 4 weeks ago, but ran out early one weekend and had to wait about 4 days for a refill. During this time I felt like crap -- anxiety raised, strong shakes, GI upset. It sucked because it was just starting to work when this happened and when I restarted it stopped. In fact I've had a few days where I've felt terrible. But actually it seems to be following the same relative cycle as before: a few days of feeling depressed and anxious, a few days of feeling calm and numb, then a day or two where I feel a dull ache in my groin and have trouble with urinating and defecating, and finally I slide into a warm contentment and focus. When I arrive at this point I feel like I can calmly problem solve, look people in the eyes without effort, and I see challenges as opportunities. It's exactly where I want to be.

Today was a slow emotional climb ending at a chill happiness. I broke up 60 mg with 1.5 pills at breakfast, 1.5 mg at lunch, and 1 pill at dinner. Farts -- nasty,thick, nardil smelling farts -- were the main side effect. i saw people cringe all day and when I blamed it on the dog everyone said she must be really sick. Anyway, today was ok but not great -- I think it hasn't completely kicked in yet.

Thanks for your responses. It's weird, I hear so many people on SAS write that nardil quit on them within a few months, and then another group of people like you say that nardil should work indefinitely (if it starts in the 1st place). I' d like to believe your side. If it does work for me, I am determined to stick with it and push through sides.

*Question:* I'm feeling strong sexual sides: ED, low ejaculate, etc. But the scariest one is lack of sexual interest. I look at a perfect girl with a beautiful rack and I'm only interested on an intellectual level, meaning I just want to stare and think. *Is this nardil? If so, will it fade?*
I hope so; I'd like to at least want to have sex.


----------



## mr t

alte said:


> How long did it take to work? How SA free are you now? (what can you do that you couldn't before?)


I started to see results probably around 5 weeks. I feel completely SA free. Before i could never raise my hand and ask questions in class, converse easily with ppl, had few friends etc.. Ive had tremendous improvements in all aspects


----------



## mr t

puppy said:


> Can you elaborate on how maintenance dosing is supposed to work? I'm 5 weeks in on 60mg and wondering when and how much to lower my dose, if at all.
> 
> Thanks!


Maintence dose is lowering dosage after uve reached full benefits of the drug. Ive been on it for over a year and continue to have less SA or anxiety about daily life.

No u should stay on ur dose if its working for u. According to my doctor u can see improvements for a year or more.

Once u acheive full benefits and the proper MAO inhibition lowering the dose just keeps ur maoi levels steady and is better suited for long term use of the drug, possibly prevents poop out etc..


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> 28 days into Nardil (@45 mg), works mildly for the depression, and moderately for anxiety. Again, it's still the best thing I currently have in my arsenal.
> 
> Still getting pretty extreme tiredness during the day. Lasts until about 8 pm. That's pretty much my only side effect. I've been on 45 mg every day and I take it all at once. Not looking to space out my doses, but would you mind telling me if you had fatigue? If so, when did it stop?
> 
> Also, how heavy are you in kg's? Curious as to whether I need the 1mg/1kg rumor. I am 84 kg.


Possibly try coffee for fatigue? I couldnt drink coffee before nardil bc it worsened anxiety but now i drink two cups to get me going each morning.

I also found nardil more effective and stimulating if i take it on empty stomach when i wake up.

For fatigue, could possibly be caused by mild hypotension. I suggest drinking plenty of water throughout the day to keep blood pressure up, multivitamin/b complex helps with energy. Ive also used nuvigil as stimulant to help with ADD. It destroys fatigue, had no anxiety, and has potent dopamine release which helped with motivation and socializing. I might try that last if other ways dont help.

I dont believe in the mg/kg. im 85kg and only take 45mg/day


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> 28 days into Nardil (@45 mg), works mildly for the depression, and moderately for anxiety. Again, it's still the best thing I currently have in my arsenal.
> 
> Still getting pretty extreme tiredness during the day. Lasts until about 8 pm. That's pretty much my only side effect. I've been on 45 mg every day and I take it all at once. Not looking to space out my doses, but would you mind telling me if you had fatigue? If so, when did it stop?
> 
> Also, how heavy are you in kg's? Curious as to whether I need the 1mg/1kg rumor. I am 84 kg.


If fatigue subsides i would suggest bumping up to 60mg. I was on that for a while and eventually went down to 45mg bc i was already experiencing great benefits and thought i could also do good on lower dose.

Im betting ur fatigue is due to mild hypotension. Nardil tends to drop ur blood pressure


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> Its my 10th week on nardil. My doctor started me on 45 mg broken up into 3 doses, one at each meal. I went up to 60 about 4 weeks ago, but ran out early one weekend and had to wait about 4 days for a refill. During this time I felt like crap -- anxiety raised, strong shakes, GI upset. It sucked because it was just starting to work when this happened and when I restarted it stopped. In fact I've had a few days where I've felt terrible. But actually it seems to be following the same relative cycle as before: a few days of feeling depressed and anxious, a few days of feeling calm and numb, then a day or two where I feel a dull ache in my groin and have trouble with urinating and defecating, and finally I slide into a warm contentment and focus. When I arrive at this point I feel like I can calmly problem solve, look people in the eyes without effort, and I see challenges as opportunities. It's exactly where I want to be.
> 
> Today was a slow emotional climb ending at a chill happiness. I broke up 60 mg with 1.5 pills at breakfast, 1.5 mg at lunch, and 1 pill at dinner. Farts -- nasty,thick, nardil smelling farts -- were the main side effect. i saw people cringe all day and when I blamed it on the dog everyone said she must be really sick. Anyway, today was ok but not great -- I think it hasn't completely kicked in yet.
> 
> Thanks for your responses. It's weird, I hear so many people on SAS write that nardil quit on them within a few months, and then another group of people like you say that nardil should work indefinitely (if it starts in the 1st place). I' d like to believe your side. If it does work for me, I am determined to stick with it and push through sides.
> 
> *Question:* I'm feeling strong sexual sides: ED, low ejaculate, etc. But the scariest one is lack of sexual interest. I look at a perfect girl with a beautiful rack and I'm only interested on an intellectual level, meaning I just want to stare and think. *Is this nardil? If so, will it fade?*
> I hope so; I'd like to at least want to have sex.


That almost always fades.

ive experiences that same ejac problem at 60mg and it sucks. I would continue to stay at 60mg for a while longer to get full benefits.

Theres kind of a trick to solving the sexual side effect problem that many get. Ive experienced this solution myself and have read about others doing the same thing:

The way i fixed it was dropping my dose down to 45mg until my sexual side effects went away. It was probably 1-2weeks at most. After sexual side effects faded i bumped back up to 60mg and guess what, NO sexual side effects!!

Its weird and i dont know why it works but ive seen several other accounts of the same thing happening for others.

I wouldnt do that right now tho. Bear the side effects for now and wait for nardil to fully kick in. Trust me ud rather have the SA gets its *** kicked and feel good first. Then try my suggestion and see how it goes!!

Good luck!!!


----------



## viper1431

To add to the reply on fatigue above, i upped my dose a few days ago back to 60 and am fatigued as hell during the day.. at the same time my blood pressure has dropped since upping the dose. So that could support the hypotension mentioned in the response.


----------



## CD700

Fatigue and hypertension has been completely removed by a NRI for me


----------



## gilmourr

blakeyz said:


> Fatigue and hypertension has been completely removed by a NRI for me


I was going to add nortryptiline before I found out that it has pretty significant ACh properties. I hate the idea of things messing with my memory. But I may have to try it.

Also, Mr.T I have tried coffee before (up to 4 cups) but it doesn't do anything. The fatigue is essentially all in my head, because I can do like 30 pushups straight if I wanted to, I just always feel sleepy and unable to focus/concentrate because of my sleepiness. I use B6 with Nardil as well.


----------



## puppy

gilmourr said:


> I was going to add nortryptiline before I found out that it has pretty significant ACh properties. I hate the idea of things messing with my memory. But I may have to try it.
> 
> Also, Mr.T I have tried coffee before (up to 4 cups) but it doesn't do anything. The fatigue is essentially all in my head, because I can do like 30 pushups straight if I wanted to, I just always feel sleepy and unable to focus/concentrate because of my sleepiness. I use B6 with Nardil as well.


For NRIs, have you considered amoxetine or reboxetine? Both have insignificant anticholinergic effects, as far as I know.


----------



## gilmourr

puppy said:


> For NRIs, have you considered amoxetine or reboxetine? Both have insignificant anticholinergic effects, as far as I know.


Going to try for a stimulant or modafinil/provigil first. Haven't heard a lot of great reviews about nardil and a NRI.

Some really great reviews with adjunctive meds are..

- Nortryp + Nardil
- Desipramine + Nardil 
- Modafinil + Nardil 
- Ritalin + Nardil 
- Vyvanse + Nardil
- Adderall + Nardil


----------



## CD700

Coffee doesn't do anything for me either no matter how much I have but before I added Nortryp I tried some caffeine pills to help the MAOI brain fart fatigue thing and it really woke me up.


----------



## mr t

Yea nuvigil/provigil will definitely help fatigue. I prefer nuvigil bc i didnt get headaches or nervousness on it.

Both of these drugs will definitely destroy the fatigue. I would try one of those before another stimulant like amphetamines or NRIs..

Nuvigil comes with a discount prescription card at this point where scripts are only $50/month at 150mg. I only needed 75mg so that lasted me two months.


----------



## Govinda

What beers are best to drink on this med? I know some people can drink anything, but I mean what _decent _beers are low in amines?

Also, for sexual sides does anyone know anything about cabergoline? Some people on Dr. Bob's forum suggest it, though I think it may increase hypotension and may interact with nardil negatively. It could otherwise give you your orgasm back though.


----------



## mr t

I pretty much drink whatever beer I want as long as its bottled. I tend to avoid very good imported beers just in case they were aged too long.

Always avoid tap beer though. Thats really the biggest concern.


----------



## CD700

I gave up alcohol when I started Parnate because I really want it to work.....BUT I did go out one night a few weeks ago and drank a **** load of alcohol from the tap and had no problems. I don't respect the diet at all and have never had a problem. One day it will probably bight me on the arse though


----------



## mr t

blakeyz said:


> I gave up alcohol when I started Parnate because I really want it to work.....BUT I did go out one night a few weeks ago and drank a **** load of alcohol from the tap and had no problems. I don't respect the diet at all and have never had a problem. One day it will probably bight me on the arse though


Yea i agree that it sucks to avoid tap beer. Going to bars and seeing all the great beers they have on tap and then paying MORE for a bottled beer is rough. Glad you didnt have any problems, its just a crazy risk to take over beer.


----------



## gilmourr

mr t said:


> Yea i agree that it sucks to avoid tap beer. Going to bars and seeing all the great beers they have on tap and then paying MORE for a bottled beer is rough. Glad you didnt have any problems, its just a crazy risk to take over beer.


Beeeeeeeeer.

What are your thoughts on my strategy of waiting 8-10 weeks @ 45 mg to see if it does anything major to my depression before moving onwards to 60-75-90 mg?

Honestly, I'm getting quite bored of waiting for something to happen. My mood is not where I want it to be, but the anxiety is definitely affected.

I've heard that patience is key with this. It's just I always get into this thought process by like week 5 being on the same dose that I'm just wasting my life waiting...I don't have a lot of faith in waiting. I just want to finish my education, apply to a mid tier firm and get on with my plans in life. Gahhh

I want to preoccupy myself with work/going out, but I'm so tired on Nardil all day.. I just want modafinil so I can not fall asleep :/ Also doesn't help that gastritis is taking a while to go away.. been like 10 days on proton pumps for acid, still having some discomfort.


----------



## mr t

I would bump up to 60mg, see how u do on that for about 4 weeks. Even though youve been on 45mg for a while the goal is to reach 70-80% MAO inhibition.

As you might have experienced anxiety usually starts to improve first before mood/depression.

If youre having that much fatigue i would definitely try to get my hands on modafinil or armodanfinil like youre trying to. I found it helps with fatigue, mood, and socializing thru its significant dopamine release.

I hope u can get ur hands on that stuff asap. It really made a huge difference in mood boost for me!


----------



## gilmourr

mr t said:


> I would bump up to 60mg, see how u do on that for about 4 weeks. Even though youve been on 45mg for a while the goal is to reach 70-80% MAO inhibition.
> 
> As you might have experienced anxiety usually starts to improve first before mood/depression.
> 
> If youre having that much fatigue i would definitely try to get my hands on modafinil or armodanfinil like youre trying to. I found it helps with fatigue, mood, and socializing thru its significant dopamine release.
> 
> I hope u can get ur hands on that stuff asap. It really made a huge difference in mood boost for me!


Sounds good man. Just need my freaking referral to go through for a new psychiatrist. Almost has been a month and I haven't heard from anyone. Going to run out of Nardil soon.

Do you know if it's possible to buy modafinil or any stimulants off of the internet without prescription? So desperate. My memory is pissing me off majorly and so is the fatigue.


----------



## CD700

MAOI's have a negative impact on Norepinephrine in my experience so if this is factor in your depression then raising the dose won't help. That fatigue you mentioned was exactly the same type as I had and it never went away. The week I added nortip it started to go away and guess what ? Parnate started to show some signs of working. I don't think Nardil will work for you until you address that issue.


----------



## mr t

Yea blakelyz has a point about lower NE being source of fatigue. Thats also attributable to increased GABA transmission because it helps limit the stimulatory NTs being released.

However, if you add modanifil it will boost your NE and also importantly your dopamine release. Both of these effects should greatly benefit you.

I wish I could send you some of my nuvigil lol... I'm aware of the online market but I've never had to buy from there being that my dad is a psych.

Do you have any family or friends of family with an MD? They dont need to be a psych to prescribe you medication. Just have an honest discussion with them and that you are trying to get a psych appointment, its taking forever, and that you are feeling pretty desperate at the moment. Maybe you can find a short term solution through that route.

BTW what manufacturer of nardil are you using? The nardil I use is from Gavis Pharm. I've tried the Greenstone brand when my pharmacy was refilling once and I was not crazy about it at all.


----------



## viper1431

For some reason when i add NE effecting meds it makes my hypotension work. I'e tried nortputyline, reboxetine and bupripion and they made it a lot worse.

I tried some pseudoephedrine a couple nights a go to see if it would get my heart pumping a bit harder but it made me faint and i've pulled two tendons in my hand now  oops.


----------



## ilusive

Hey mr.t what was your experience like on the Greenstone version? Ive had great success on the Pfizer brand in the past and am currently on Greenstone which is a generic owned by pfizer(which they werent making last time I was on Nardil) . Im currently on 15mg once day and have been on for 3 months cause my pdoc want to take it slow. Will soon be increased. Do you think i should switch to Gavis?


----------



## gilmourr

blakeyz said:


> MAOI's have a negative impact on Norepinephrine in my experience so if this is factor in your depression then raising the dose won't help. That fatigue you mentioned was exactly the same type as I had and it never went away. The week I added nortip it started to go away and guess what ? Parnate started to show some signs of working. I don't think Nardil will work for you until you address that issue.


Yep. I still think it should work even better for anxiety and stuff and maybe even for depression but a NDRI would DEFINITELY help imo.

I just can't get anything like it. I have no doctor atm to prescribe me stuff, and it'll be probably 3-4 weeks before I get an appt.

MR T SEND ME NUVIGILLLLLLLLLLL. Anyone know of a sketch online pharmacy anychance?


----------



## mr t

ilusive said:


> Hey mr.t what was your experience like on the Greenstone version? Ive had great success on the Pfizer brand in the past and am currently on Greenstone which is a generic owned by pfizer(which they werent making last time I was on Nardil) . Im currently on 15mg once day and have been on for 3 months cause my pdoc want to take it slow. Will soon be increased. Do you think i should switch to Gavis?


I've read plenty of reviews about the different versions of Nardil when I first started. I generally saw better reviews from people taking Gavis. I'm not sure why it would be more effective but the discussion was pretty much Greenstone vs. Gavis. Gavis definitely came out on top. People were having less issues with it and more positive effects.

A while ago i looked up the ingredients in each and I believe Gavis was most similar to the old nardil.

I would switch to Gavis if it was me. I've tried the Greenstone for one refill and its effects seemed different. Its really weird how these generics can differ like that but they only have to be a certain percent purity to be approved.

Glad you are taking it slow. Good decision!

If you want to switch to Gavis it shouldnt be an issue. My pharmacy called in Greenstone that one time and I specifically told them I preferred Gavis, they always call the right one in now.

Hope that helps.


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Yep. I still think it should work even better for anxiety and stuff and maybe even for depression but a NDRI would DEFINITELY help imo.
> 
> I just can't get anything like it. I have no doctor atm to prescribe me stuff, and it'll be probably 3-4 weeks before I get an appt.
> 
> MR T SEND ME NUVIGILLLLLLLLLLL. Anyone know of a sketch online pharmacy anychance?


Try going to your general practitioner. You could probably get a quick appt and get it prescribed. Youre already on nardil and know interactions etc. Try and get your general practitioner to prescribe you and make them realize that you know your stuff.

Even if that works I would still do the psych appt. Im doing great but still have appts once a month. They need to check BP and be better equipped to clear up any issues.

For the online pharmacy just try google lol. Youll get plenty of options.


----------



## mr t

viper1431 said:


> For some reason when i add NE effecting meds it makes my hypotension work. I'e tried nortputyline, reboxetine and bupripion and they made it a lot worse.
> 
> I tried some pseudoephedrine a couple nights a go to see if it would get my heart pumping a bit harder but it made me faint and i've pulled two tendons in my hand now  oops.


Thats crazy!!

Weird that NE drugs didnt raise pressure. Its pretty common sense that NE activates the sympathetic nervous system etc... What NE drug did you try?


----------



## viper1431

Reboxetine which is an NRI, and the nortriptyline and bupropion.
They all lowered my BP slighlty more and made the ortho hypotension much worse.


----------



## CD700

viper1431 said:


> Reboxetine which is an NRI, and the nortriptyline and bupropion.
> They all lowered my BP slighlty more and made the ortho hypotension much worse.


Now i'm confused...i thought it raised blood pressure 
I'm reading online that they cause alpha-1 blockade which can lower blood pressure.


----------



## viper1431

Yeah if you look at the side effects for these meds they all mention hypotension/lowering blood pressure.

Gotta love how meds can find ways to make things confusing.


----------



## puppy

beta-blockers + stimulants can supposedly raise your BP really high through beta-blockade without corresponding alpha blockade, so theoretically the reverse could lower your blood pressure I guess. This stuff is so complicated you pretty much just have to try it and see what happens.


----------



## Govinda

I'm in my 10th week at 60 mg, broken up into 3 doses at mealtime. My last refill was generic and I feel as if all the sides and the main effect of the med have decreased substantially in this last week. I was feeling deeply depressed and getting really bad myoclonic jerks, which reminded me of the first half of my last cycle, a cycle that ended with nardil working pretty well for 4 days. Maybe I'm just getting used to the med and sort of plateauing, or maybe this generic is less pure. What do you think?


----------



## ilusive

Thanks for your reply mr.t. Would you mind evaluating a little more on your experience with greenstone? Was it still doing a great job in treating the social anxiety? Or were the positive effects diminshed a bit compared to the Gavis version?


----------



## gilmourr

Maybe we should edit the 1st post and include some great Nardil links to summarize some of the questions being asked (pubmed). Things like B6, daytime fatigue, efficacy reports and so on. A lot of good ideas/info gets lost in a thread this big.


----------



## KramersHalfSister

Hi mr t  I have a question about taking b6 with Nardil. I've read that it's best if you space it 12 hours away from the time you take Nardil. I was just wondering how you do implement that when taking your pills throughout the day instead of one dose. Say if you're on 60mg and you take two in the morning and two at night, where do you fit b6 in? Does it really matter? Also, what is the best form to take? I've heard talk about p5p.

Also, I wonder if taking b6 is helpful when it comes to maintaining a steady weight. Since it's responsible for processing carbohydrates and glucose, could that be why a person that's deficient craves sugars and carbs? I'm deficient now and I'm tired all the time and my weight fluctuates because my food isn't being converted to energy. I've noticed that the people that have NOT gained weight on Nardil are also the ones that supplement with b6 so I'm just curious about your thoughts on this. Thanks again as always


----------



## CD700

Some interesting MAO reading if anyone's interested 
http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000046/CH046.html


----------



## CD700

If anyone has any advice I would be very grateful.

I have had constant tinnitus (ears ringing) for 4 days now. It's driving me crazy! 
I checked my blood pressure today and it was 109/80 so I believe that's normal. I had to walk to the chemist so I don't know if that made a difference.
I feel like something is wrong though because I can't think properly (started around same time as tinnitus). For example I'm struggling to do basic maths equations but I got decent marks in physics/maths in High school. It's kind of worrying me to be honest..


----------



## viper1431

What's your normal pressure? I get tinnitis if mine drops to around that but my normal pressure is 140/90.
I had tinnitis this morning when my blood pressure was down to 108/78


----------



## caller

Whoa, your talk about NRI's is really good news to me! I feared this would be an absolute no-no on Nardil..

Anyone know if a lower dose of bupropion (150 mg) and modafinil (400 mg) can be combined with Nardil (60 mg)?

I have severe ADHD and modafinil and bupropion are pretty much irreplaceable for me, but as I suffer from atypical depression and social anxiety I'm really curious to trying Nardil..


----------



## viper1431

here's an interesting study to ponder
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2418010

" It seems that phenelzine acts more through catecholamine release phenomenon than by inhibition of MAO."


----------



## gilmourr

Mr.T did you use Nardil for real serious depression as well? Because it definitely works on anxiety for me, it's not 100% yet, but its still easily the best med of them all @ 45 mg. But for depression I want it to do so much more..


----------



## upndownboi

gilmourr said:


> Mr.T did you use Nardil for real serious depression as well? Because it definitely works on anxiety for me, it's not 100% yet, but its still easily the best med of them all @ 45 mg. But for depression I want it to do so much more..


I would like to know this too, also does Nardil numb you much? I would like to feel negative feelings still, just not be so overwhelmed and frozen by them as my brain feels its always running at 200 mph, the stimulating parnate doesn't help it slow down  (although at higher doses it seemed to help more paradoxically).

current meds:
Parnate 30mg (max I can get rxed)
Buprenorphine 1.2mg (fast-tapering to zero)


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> I'm in my 10th week at 60 mg, broken up into 3 doses at mealtime. My last refill was generic and I feel as if all the sides and the main effect of the med have decreased substantially in this last week. I was feeling deeply depressed and getting really bad myoclonic jerks, which reminded me of the first half of my last cycle, a cycle that ended with nardil working pretty well for 4 days. Maybe I'm just getting used to the med and sort of plateauing, or maybe this generic is less pure. What do you think?


It shouldnt be plateauing. Generally the benefits keep increasing for up to a year or more. Hopefully it was just a bad week... If you keep getting those jerks often consider going down to 45mg for a bit and see if that helps.

Sometimes a different dosage can make a big difference. I'm only on 45mg and wouldnt consider going up to 60mg again because I think i do better on this dosage. See how you do next week. BTW do you take a multivitamin/b complex/ or vitamin d? All those are critical in neurotransmitter synthesis, especially b6 which can be lowered by taking nardil.


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Maybe we should edit the 1st post and include some great Nardil links to summarize some of the questions being asked (pubmed). Things like B6, daytime fatigue, efficacy reports and so on. A lot of good ideas/info gets lost in a thread this big.


I updated my first post with some info. I will continue to update it!


----------



## mr t

ilusive said:


> Thanks for your reply mr.t. Would you mind evaluating a little more on your experience with greenstone? Was it still doing a great job in treating the social anxiety? Or were the positive effects diminshed a bit compared to the Gavis version?


I dont have too much to say about it. Basically I had been on Gavis version for a while and when i tried the Greenstone version it really threw my mood off. Just didnt feel right, and i quickly switched back to Gavis, things settled back to normal and I have not tried Greenstone since. Wish i had more experience with it to tell u!!


----------



## mr t

KramersHalfSister said:


> Hi mr t  I have a question about taking b6 with Nardil. I've read that it's best if you space it 12 hours away from the time you take Nardil. I was just wondering how you do implement that when taking your pills throughout the day instead of one dose. Say if you're on 60mg and you take two in the morning and two at night, where do you fit b6 in? Does it really matter? Also, what is the best form to take? I've heard talk about p5p.
> 
> Also, I wonder if taking b6 is helpful when it comes to maintaining a steady weight. Since it's responsible for processing carbohydrates and glucose, could that be why a person that's deficient craves sugars and carbs? I'm deficient now and I'm tired all the time and my weight fluctuates because my food isn't being converted to energy. I've noticed that the people that have NOT gained weight on Nardil are also the ones that supplement with b6 so I'm just curious about your thoughts on this. Thanks again as always


When i first started supplementing B vitamins i had read the same things and spaced them out further away. Eventually i tried taking them just whenever, if it was with breakfast or lunch. I dont recall telling a huge difference. Try supplementing a B complex at different times of the day and see if you can tell a difference. Everyones different so see what works for you.

I would use a B complex, you can just get that at walmart. I recommend taking a complex without a huge amount of B6 since it interacts with Nardil. Basically what im saying is done buy some B6 pills themselves, take a b complex that has everything you need. Supplement a multivitamin as well. I've tried taking B6 at 100mg/day by itself. I definitely thought there were benefits but actually ended up preferring a complex instead. If the complex isnt doing great things you could try ordering B6 by itself. Its hard to differentiate what did what since I tried a ton of things a while back lol.

Whatever the case, B6 is crucial to GABA synthesis which is one of the main mechanisms nardil works for helping SA.

I definitely tell a difference when it comes to nardil if i take it on an empty stomach or not. I think i get a bigger dopamine boost from nardil taking it without food.

B vitamins are huge for metabolism, brain function, NT synthesis among other things.

Hmm to your point about carb cravings.. I'm not really sure if B vitamins do help with that. Whatever the case, when i use B complex it generally curbs my appetite some and stimulates my brain. Like i can focus more etc..

Eating carbs generally feeds more carb cravings. So if you can cut down on carbs a bit and eat more protein with your meals, that should cut down cravings some.


----------



## mr t

upndownboi said:


> I would like to know this too, also does Nardil numb you much? I would like to feel negative feelings still, just not be so overwhelmed and frozen by them as my brain feels its always running at 200 mph, the stimulating parnate doesn't help it slow down  (although at higher doses it seemed to help more paradoxically
> current meds:
> Parnate 30mg (max I can get rxed)
> Buprenorphine 1.2mg (fast-tapering to zero)


Yes i used nardil for very severe depression also. I had been hospitalized for depression multiple times in the past. Anxiety generally gets better before mood. Try to be patient!! It has been fantastic for me in both aspects!!

I'm at 45mg now and my depression and SA is in remission. It takes some time. Anxiety started getting better first, and that really helps depression too. But depression took a little longer. Stay positive!

Upndownboi: Nope, nardil has never made me feel numb which is awesome. I hated that feeling and always got that when I took SSRIs. No highs or lows, just blah.

I attribute not getting the numb feeling because nardil boosts serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and GABA! It boosts everything, not just serotonin which is why SSRIs make you feel so numb.

After I added lyrica and nuvigil to my nardil, i think my mood started to greatly improve faster. Lyrica + nardil = ton of GABA activity. Alot of people have depression due to lack of GABA more than serotonin. I've read several studies/articles on GABA related depression.

Then nuvigil gave me a great dopamine boost which helped mood and made me more social. Maybe you can talk to your doctor about adding those. I convinced my doctor to add lyrica because i figured both had GABA activity. Lyrica increases GABA release and Nardil helps keep it from being broken down. He agreed and we tried it, ended up being a great help.

I've been augmenting my nardil with those two drugs for awhile. I havent taking the nuvigil in a couple months just because i prefer to use it now just for focusing on school at this point. I take 50mg of lyrica at night. Definitely helps anxiety and mood!!


----------



## mr t

I should of done this earlier:

I'm going to list what I take daily as in medications, vitamins, supplements, etc.

I added lyrica to my regimen last November. i started nardil may 2011. I probably added nuvigil soon after lyrica.

I found that both boosted positive effects of Nardil. Both mood and anxiety were greatly improved!! Nuvigil helped mood alot and made me very social with great dopamine boost. Lyrica with nardil kills anxiety IMO.

AM:
Nardil 45mg-empty stomach as soon as i wake up, find i get a better dopamine boost
2 cups of coffee- i def think coffee helps with mood and energy
Nuvigil(armodafinil)75mg-i used to take regularly, helped mood alot, big dopamine boost, now i just take it when i study or am really tired. Absolutely destroys fatigue

Afternoon:
Multivitamin/sometimes with B complex- take with food
Vitamin D- 2000 IU: great for mood, HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!

PM:
Lyrica: 50mg-great for anxiety and mood, especially on nardil
Lorazepam:.5mg-1mg- for sleep, i've had sleep problems before i took nardil. Lorazepam puts me to sleep, lyrica helps keep me asleep.
ZMA 3 pills: ZMA=zinc magnesium aspartate. ZMA is the most bioavailable form of magnesium you can get.ZMA helps me sleep, it also helps keep me from getting a dopamine burnout if i am taking nuvigil too frequently. Ive found it helpful for anxiety, sleep, and mood.

It seems like alot, but hey i feel better now than i have in my whole life. I really believe i owe it to finally finding the right mix of meds, vitamins, etc...


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Mr.T did you use Nardil for real serious depression as well? Because it definitely works on anxiety for me, it's not 100% yet, but its still easily the best med of them all @ 45 mg. But for depression I want it to do so much more..


Anxiety starts getting better before mood. It might take some time. Yes Nardil is awesome!! I am on 45mg too.

You might consider trying lyrica and nuvigil. Both made profound improvements. i decided to try these when my anxiety was alot better but i still wanted improvement.

Nuvigil really kicked my mood into gear and the dopamine release definitely helped with anxiety. My mood was good before from nardil but nuvigil definitely stepped it up a noch. Made me alot more outgoing, social, helped me keep a clear mind!


----------



## gilmourr

mr t said:


> Anxiety starts getting better before mood. It might take some time. Yes Nardil is awesome!! I am on 45mg too.
> 
> You might consider trying lyrica and nuvigil. Both made profound improvements. i decided to try these when my anxiety was alot better but i still wanted improvement.
> 
> Nuvigil really kicked my mood into gear and the dopamine release definitely helped with anxiety. My mood was good before from nardil but nuvigil definitely stepped it up a noch. Made me alot more outgoing, social, helped me keep a clear mind!


Yeah I like the idea of that combo. Just there is no way I'll be able to handle lyrica + Nardil, the fatigue will be too much, I need provigil or nuvigil or a stimulant badly. How much time do you think I should give 45 mg? It has been 33 days so far, and my mood sucks again (it was pretty good first 2 weeks, but still nothing major). I was thinking of moving to 60 mg on day 35, but I feel like I might be rushing it again like last time.. I just hate when my mood goes back above moderate in the direction of severe depression again.

From many of the threads I've read, the range is about 6.5 weeks - 11 weeks on a stable dose to feel some serious mutha****in' AD effect. Wondering if I should just suck it up for 15-20 more days. It just sucks that I wasted another ****ing summer. I can't stop thinking about all this sunk time.

EDIT: Did you try neurontin? Isn't it on generic and the same thing as lyrica? I hate buying brand, it's such a rip. But I do understand that they must cover R&D costs. Could be worse, I could be paying US pharma prices..


----------



## Govinda

I completely messed up when I said I've been on nardil for 10 weeks, it has actually only been like 6. So I guess it makes more sense that I feel like a fiery bag full of crap.

Anyway -- the questions! I take 60 mg of nardil and I've been at this dose for about 3 weeks; I had started at 45. I usually break it up into 3 doses, one around each meal. Usually I feel slightly calmer and chiller by the 3rd dose, but this is late in the day. *Should I change things? How should I break this up?*

*Did you notice any kind of cyclic effectiveness early on? * (shyone seemed to in his testimony)

*Easier: How much vitamin B and D and when?*

Thanks.


----------



## nardil

Hello!
Sorry if my English is bad, just ask if u dont understand, my grammar is also bad. 
Hehe, anyway, im from Sweden, and we dont have so much science about this drug in sweden.. So the first i did was to start to take one tablet, and then i read the TOC that you have to go on the diet in two weeks, so i was very affraid for the crise you can get with Nardil, but everything was fine. And i eat the diet in two weeks, then yesterday i start with Nardil. My doc told me to begin with 2X15 i thought it was too little, so i start with 3X15... but now when i read what you wrote here about to start with low dose. maybe i should trap down?
I have SA as you, maybe i should go up to 60 each day too? My doc dont know how i should take this, maybe someone can give me some advice?

btw... is milk, bread, potatoes, wipped cream, ice-cream okey to eat?
And Can i eat Mc Donalds?

Kind regards !!


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Yeah I like the idea of that combo. Just there is no way I'll be able to handle lyrica + Nardil, the fatigue will be too much, I need provigil or nuvigil or a stimulant badly. How much time do you think I should give 45 mg? It has been 33 days so far, and my mood sucks again (it was pretty good first 2 weeks, but still nothing major). I was thinking of moving to 60 mg on day 35, but I feel like I might be rushing it again like last time.. I just hate when my mood goes back above moderate in the direction of severe depression again.
> 
> From many of the threads I've read, the range is about 6.5 weeks - 11 weeks on a stable dose to feel some serious mutha****in' AD effect. Wondering if I should just suck it up for 15-20 more days. It just sucks that I wasted another ****ing summer. I can't stop thinking about all this sunk time.
> 
> EDIT: Did you try neurontin? Isn't it on generic and the same thing as lyrica? I hate buying brand, it's such a rip. But I do understand that they must cover R&D costs. Could be worse, I could be paying US pharma prices..


No, i've never taken with nardil. i took neurotin years ago, kind of shot in the dark for depression when i took it.

Neurotin might be a good option for you since its very similar to lyrica. Not too familar with that combo, but hey it could end up working pretty well.

Do you have any major side effects at 45mg? i think at 33 days after i started i was up to 60mg. I know...having low mood sucks. Have you tried to incooperate exercise at all? It always helps me with energy, improves mood etc..

Try to stay patient! I know the feeling of I JUST WANT THIS TO WORK, IM TIRED OF THIS!! But in the end its worth it, i hope your mood takes a turn for the best.

Did you rush up on nardil dosage before? Cant recall if you mentioned that.


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> I completely messed up when I said I've been on nardil for 10 weeks, it has actually only been like 6. So I guess it makes more sense that I feel like a fiery bag full of crap.
> 
> Anyway -- the questions! I take 60 mg of nardil and I've been at this dose for about 3 weeks; I had started at 45. I usually break it up into 3 doses, one around each meal. Usually I feel slightly calmer and chiller by the 3rd dose, but this is late in the day. *Should I change things? How should I break this up?*
> 
> *Did you notice any kind of cyclic effectiveness early on? * (shyone seemed to in his testimony)
> 
> *Easier: How much vitamin B and D and when?*
> 
> Thanks.


Try taking your doses earlier in the day if you feel better onces its all in your system. It usually takes a couple hours to kick in and feel it. When i took 60mg i took 30mg in AM with breakfast and then the second 30mg after lunch.

Now I take all my 45mg at once on empty stomach when i wake up. I feel like this dosage is more effective for me when i take it without food.

Anyhow, i would suggest splitting the doses in half in AM and after lunch. Give that a shot and see if you notice a difference after a while.

Hmm i dont think i noticed any "cyclic" effectiveness. Once the anxiety benefits started they slowly and continually got better. Yea im sure i had some ups and downs with anxiety at the time, that might be what hes referring to. But the general trend was definitely anxiety and depression improving.

Vitamins:

For B vitamins I would just take a quality multivitamin/maybe add a B complex also. Sometimes i take in the morning, but usually after lunch. Definitely take it with food, atleast for me I can get some nausea if i take it on empty stomach. Taking it with food eliminates that problem.

Vitamin D i would take 2000-3000 IUs daily. Doesnt matter when you take it. Ive taken it different times of the day. Its a fat soluble vitamin so it takes time to accumulate in your body. Definitely dont take much because your body stores in fat, and if you have too much you will keep accumulating it and having too much can cause problems. At that dosage you wont have an issue. Just dont go downing a handful of it. I think i used to take 6000 IUs a day. I did that for a while, never had any problems and it might of helped get my blood levels up faster. Once i saw my new doc he told me to back down the dose which i did.


----------



## mr t

nardil said:


> Hello!
> Sorry if my English is bad, just ask if u dont understand, my grammar is also bad.
> Hehe, anyway, im from Sweden, and we dont have so much science about this drug in sweden.. So the first i did was to start to take one tablet, and then i read the TOC that you have to go on the diet in two weeks, so i was very affraid for the crise you can get with Nardil, but everything was fine. And i eat the diet in two weeks, then yesterday i start with Nardil. My doc told me to begin with 2X15 i thought it was too little, so i start with 3X15... but now when i read what you wrote here about to start with low dose. maybe i should trap down?
> I have SA as you, maybe i should go up to 60 each day too? My doc dont know how i should take this, maybe someone can give me some advice?
> 
> btw... is milk, bread, potatoes, wipped cream, ice-cream okey to eat?
> And Can i eat Mc Donalds?
> 
> Kind regards !!


I would listen to your doctor and stay at 30mg for 2 weeks and then start thinking about bumping up your dose. You definitely dont want to rush into a high dose. Go back to 30mg and follow what your doctor tells you.

Take the 30mg for 2 weeks, then go up to 45mg for 2 weeks. If you are having side effects you can take a little longer on whatever dose you are on. Then after 45mg for 2-3 weeks I would go up to 60mg and stay at that dose. You need to slowly work your way up though. Thats pretty important.

All of those foods you listed are fine to eat. Yes can you eat Mcdonalds haha.


----------



## gilmourr

mr t said:


> No, i've never taken with nardil. i took neurotin years ago, kind of shot in the dark for depression when i took it.
> 
> Neurotin might be a good option for you since its very similar to lyrica. Not too familar with that combo, but hey it could end up working pretty well.
> 
> Do you have any major side effects at 45mg? i think at 33 days after i started i was up to 60mg. I know...having low mood sucks. Have you tried to incooperate exercise at all? It always helps me with energy, improves mood etc..
> 
> Try to stay patient! I know the feeling of I JUST WANT THIS TO WORK, IM TIRED OF THIS!! But in the end its worth it, i hope your mood takes a turn for the best.
> 
> Did you rush up on nardil dosage before? Cant recall if you mentioned that.


Side effects are low energy, memory issues (moderate I'd say). A bit of cold intolerance (just today I noticed, it's 18-19 degrees here), and my package is frequently cold).

Orthostatic hypotension doesn't happen anymore, no urinary, constipation or anything. Insomnia has always been a problem, I go to bed at like 4 am without sleep meds but I can always sleep for 7-8 hrs straight, no waking up. With sleep meds I can go to sleep whenever.

I do exercise, but the low energy really prevents me from being consistent.

Last time I rushed up to 75 mg in 7 weeks, felt lethargic, urinary retention, constipation, insomnia, cold intolerance etc.

Gonna try and hold on until 7 weeks in total of being on 45 mg.


----------



## CD700

Just my personal opinion but I think rushing up dose to quick and the effect that has on blood pressure is counter productive to benefits from MAOI. I rushed up to quick and my heart rate was dropping down to the 40's after dose and when I when I cut it back to 30mg I started getting the Parnate " buzz " which has an anti-depressant effect in itself.

Gilmour are you still getting dreams ? I have read some theory's at dr-bob that not having dreams could be considered a sign that sufficient MAO inhibition has been reached. I think it was actually DR bob himself who said that...
Also apparently memory is consolidated in REM sleep


----------



## gilmourr

blakeyz said:


> Just my personal opinion but I think rushing up dose to quick and the effect that has on blood pressure is counter productive to benefits from MAOI. I rushed up to quick and my heart rate was dropping down to the 40's after dose and when I when I cut it back to 30mg I started getting the Parnate " buzz " which has an anti-depressant effect in itself.
> 
> Gilmour are you still getting dreams ? I have read some theory's at dr-bob that not having dreams could be considered a sign that sufficient MAO inhibition has been reached. I think it was actually DR bob himself who said that...
> Also apparently memory is consolidated in REM sleep


My dreaming has reduced significantly for about a week now. I still dream, but I don't remember them that well and they aren't vivid or crazy. Though I haven't officially STOPPED dreaming yet. Might be that its still a bit of a low dose or that it hasn't been long enough just yet.

It's actually been 35 days, I started Nardil 45 mg on the 7th of July. So exactly 5 weeks.


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Side effects are low energy, memory issues (moderate I'd say). A bit of cold intolerance (just today I noticed, it's 18-19 degrees here), and my package is frequently cold).
> 
> Orthostatic hypotension doesn't happen anymore, no urinary, constipation or anything. Insomnia has always been a problem, I go to bed at like 4 am without sleep meds but I can always sleep for 7-8 hrs straight, no waking up. With sleep meds I can go to sleep whenever.
> 
> I do exercise, but the low energy really prevents me from being consistent.
> 
> Last time I rushed up to 75 mg in 7 weeks, felt lethargic, urinary retention, constipation, insomnia, cold intolerance etc.
> 
> Gonna try and hold on until 7 weeks in total of being on 45 mg.


When you finally get some modanifil that will take care of your fatigue and memory issues if i had to bet on it. It will probably help your mood greatly also.

You are on the right track taking it slower this time!!


----------



## mr t

blakeyz said:


> Just my personal opinion but I think rushing up dose to quick and the effect that has on blood pressure is counter productive to benefits from MAOI. I rushed up to quick and my heart rate was dropping down to the 40's after dose and when I when I cut it back to 30mg I started getting the Parnate " buzz " which has an anti-depressant effect in itself.
> 
> Gilmour are you still getting dreams ? I have read some theory's at dr-bob that not having dreams could be considered a sign that sufficient MAO inhibition has been reached. I think it was actually DR bob himself who said that...
> Also apparently memory is consolidated in REM sleep


hmm thats interesting. I dream every night, definitely used to have less dreams with in earlier stages of taking nardil though.


----------



## gilmourr

Anxiety symptoms continue to get better! I don't know how, but it has been obliterating my physical anxiety issues for the last 2 weeks.

Mood still is blah. Really need help with motivation, and somehow developing interest/genuine happiness again.

To week 12 we go on 45 mg! I think it really is paying off with keeping the dose the same! My anxiety has never been this good ever. Well it was before I became half crazy, but y'know in the last 18 months it hasn't been this good. It's real good.


----------



## Govinda

I'm having a similar experience Gilmour. I'm starting to worry less and less about being nervous with people and starting to just enjoy talking to them. There are still some situations that scare the balls off me: talking to hot women for one. But, overall I'm starting to feel much better. I'm at 60 mg and have been for a few weeks. The main side effects at this point are trouble urinating, constipation, less sleep (not a big problem), trouble exercising, and, the BIG one, massively decreased libido and anorgasmia. I just am not half as excited about the prospect of sex. At first it was liberating, but I'm starting to miss my occasional horniness. Oh well, I hope it changes.

*Hey, Mr t, how long after you start feeling good should you play with the dose?* I mean everyone who has succeeded long term with nardil seems to mention occasionally dropping the dose then raising it back up to maintain efficacy. *What process did/do you use?*


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Anxiety symptoms continue to get better! I don't know how, but it has been obliterating my physical anxiety issues for the last 2 weeks.
> 
> Mood still is blah. Really need help with motivation, and somehow developing interest/genuine happiness again.
> 
> To week 12 we go on 45 mg! I think it really is paying off with keeping the dose the same! My anxiety has never been this good ever. Well it was before I became half crazy, but y'know in the last 18 months it hasn't been this good. It's real good.


So happy to hear that!!! Keep it up! Mood usually improves after anxiety, you will get there!:boogie


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> I'm having a similar experience Gilmour. I'm starting to worry less and less about being nervous with people and starting to just enjoy talking to them. There are still some situations that scare the balls off me: talking to hot women for one. But, overall I'm starting to feel much better. I'm at 60 mg and have been for a few weeks. The main side effects at this point are trouble urinating, constipation, less sleep (not a big problem), trouble exercising, and, the BIG one, massively decreased libido and anorgasmia. I just am not half as excited about the prospect of sex. At first it was liberating, but I'm starting to miss my occasional horniness. Oh well, I hope it changes.
> 
> *Hey, Mr t, how long after you start feeling good should you play with the dose?* I mean everyone who has succeeded long term with nardil seems to mention occasionally dropping the dose then raising it back up to maintain efficacy. *What process did/do you use?*


Your libido should improve..The from what ive heard about staying at 60mg for inorgasmia is that it could take a couple months to get better.

There is a drug i used at one point to help with urination etc.. Its a cholingeric drug, ill try to find the name of it. No side effects at all. When i had trouble taking a piss i could go pretty easily with in 30 mins of taking it.

I was probably on it for 3-4 months before i dropped the dose to 45mg. But at that point i was feeling great with anxiety and mood. I was talking all the time in class, asking questions in from of a whole auditorium of ppl.

If your SA symptoms are improving i would stay at 60mg for a while longer and try to acheive the max benefits from that dose. Get yourself feeling better before you worry about inorgasmia and libido. Those can be taken care of later. Theres not much point in getting hard if youre not able to engage with woman right now... i know it sucks to have sexual side effects. I had post ssri sexual dysfunction for probably 2 years. Ugh, miserable. But its not the same deal with nardil bc of the NE and dopamine increased tranmission as well as serotonin when comparing it to ssris.

I initially dropped the dose bc my doctor was worried about my blood pressure being so low. Even though it was low, i rarely ever had hypotension. After i dropped to 45mg i was already feeling good, but at 45mg i had no inorgasmia, sleep got better. I always had my libido tho, but that could be due to being in a relationship at the time. That definitely helps, as well as improved mood in general.

*How long have you been taking nardil, at what doses, etc?

Are you wanted to drop the dose to do a maintenance dose or is this mostly about fixing the side effects?*

Ive posted before that a way many ppl fix their libido, inorgasmia problems is dropping down to 45mg for a couple weeks and the inorgasmia usually goes away at that point. Then when you bump back to 60mg you dont get the sexual side effects. Its weird, but this trick worked for me and ive also heard of others have success that way.

If i were you i would stay at 60mg for now until you maximize benefits. Benefits from nardil generally continue to keep getting better and better, up to a year or more at a pretty fast rate once you initially see improvements in mood/anxiety. After that time it continues to improve but at a slower rate in my experience and what my doctor has told me.

I truly feel that im still getting better and better socially and other aspects of life that SA had made difficult for me to engage in.

Once i came down to 45mg i have stay here for the most part. Initially if i ever needed a mood boost i might bump up to 60mg for a couple days or more but then drop back down to 45mg. Sexual problems never reoccurred. 45mg has been great for me so i dont see a reason in going back up. The less drugs, the better IMO.


----------



## secondhandshoes

Hi Mr. T, I'm very new to this forum and was hoping you could answer some questions I have, since that's the reason you started this thread 

I guess I'll start with some background ... I'm a 23 year old female, SA/GA and panic attacks due to PTSD from a near fatal cocaine overdose 5 years ago ... Currently on Nortriptyline (50mgs/day) and right now it's not helping whatsoever. I also have Klonopin(.5mgs) which I'm supposed to take "as needed" but lately as needed is always.

I've been on Nortriptyline for over a year, and at one time I was up to 100mgs and it was really helping, so much so that I had my doctor cut my Klonopin script in half (to save money since I didn't need the whole thing). I was able to do almost anything without having to worry about anxiety or panic attacks, or if I did have a panic attack it simply wasn't that big a deal. I've since regressed in my SA/GA and panic attacks, tried Zoloft in place of the Nortriptyline because I thought maybe the regression had something to so with the drug not working anymore. Hated the Zoloft so went back to Nortriptyline.

In the past I've tried Cymbalta which I liked, but had to switch to Nortriptyline when my doc ran out of samples, and was fine with the switch. Also Prozac - hated the sexual side effects, Wellbutrin - first one I tried, increased my anxiety so much after the first dose I refused to take another. If there were others I tried them for less than a month, and obviously didn't help. Only tried Klonpin as a benzo and prefer it over Xanax, taken Ativan recreationally before I developed SA/GA/PA.

Because of my awful insurance I can only go to this counseling center that is filled with a few people like us, trying to find real help, and the rest are drug seekers, or actual crazy people (I've seen someone straight jacketed there). When I say awful I mean I've been trying to get a new appointment with a new doctor for 3 months to change my medicine because I'm a g*ddamn wreak. Popping Klonpin all throughout the day, drinking just to calm myself down, which I'm embarrassed to say. Thinking I need a trip to the hospital, that's how worked up I get. Like most people on here, I'm just looking for some help.

_So after all that,_ my question is - Do you think Nardil + BusPar would be right for me? I mention the BusPar because I see a lot of complaints about sexual side effects, and that seems to counteract those effects and helps with the panic. Sexual side effects are one thing I really don't like to tolerate, I know nobody really wants to endure them, but that's a huge part of my life that I don't want changed because of this god awful affliction. Also, in regard to the side effects, which ones subside over time, and how long does it usually take? 
Thank you for any help you can give me!
-Veronica


----------



## Govinda

mr t said:


> *How long have you been taking nardil, at what doses, etc?
> 
> Are you wanted to drop the dose to do a maintenance dose or is this mostly about fixing the side effects?*


I've been taking nardil for about 9 weeks. I started with 45, went up to 75 after 3 weeks, had terrible sides and went down to 60 after 4 weeks. Been on that since. It started working cyclically about 4 weeks ago -- works for about 4 days, then stops for 4. Currently it has worked for 5 days.

I was mostly thinking about dropping the dose eventually as just a maintenance and to prevent crapout. I am absolutely petrified about crapout. If this stops working, I'm not sure that medicine has anything else for me. Not trying to spread negativity, but do you ever worry about this? Do you have a backup plan?

One last question: I've had the nardil farts bad lately. Does this fade with time at all (they just recently came on since the drug has been working). Is there any change in my diet that would help?


----------



## gilmourr

Govinda said:


> I've been taking nardil for about 9 weeks. I started with 45, went up to 75 after 3 weeks, had terrible sides and went down to 60 after 4 weeks. Been on that since. It started working cyclically about 4 weeks ago -- works for about 4 days, then stops for 4. Currently it has worked for 5 days.
> 
> I was mostly thinking about dropping the dose eventually as just a maintenance and to prevent crapout. I am absolutely petrified about crapout. If this stops working, I'm not sure that medicine has anything else for me. Not trying to spread negativity, but do you ever worry about this? Do you have a backup plan?
> 
> One last question: I've had the nardil farts bad lately. Does this fade with time at all (they just recently came on since the drug has been working). Is there any change in my diet that would help?


I almost did exactly what you did last time. I took it for 5 weeks @ 45, then went up to 75 mg for 2-3 more weeks, couldn't stand side effects and eventually quit.

I'm going MUCH slower this time. Been on 45 mg for almost 6 weeks now, have no side effects except low energy/afternoon sleepiness and going to bed a bit late. This time around my anxiety is WAY better. I don't know why, but going up to 75 mg quickly isn't the right thing to do imo. I heard people do this, but when I tried doing this I immediately felt horrible.

Right now my physical anxiety is the best it has ever been since I developed anxiety/major depression. If after 10 weeks I'm not perfect I'll move up to 60 mg. But take it slow man. I used to rush meds all the time, but I'm starting to believe in the "slow and steady wins the race."

EDIT: Nardil farts are usually associated with ramping the dose too quickly, not allowing your GI tract to get used to the medicine. I did this with Zoloft and ramped up to 200 mg quickly. I almost **** my pants at the library because of this. Three times. In a day. IF you really want to stop farting, go to an herbal store, and ask for charcoal tablets. Incredible for absorbing flatulence.


----------



## johnwithsad

Hi Mr T,

I've been having a hard time sending private messages on the site. Anyways, just a few questions about Lyrica, first, does it cause you any adverse side effects at all at 50 - 100 mgs per day? Also, I'm amazed that only 50 mg of Lyrica is so effective for you. Now I'm thinking most likely that 50mg by itself wouldn't do much good but I guess it's because you're taking it in conjunction with Nardil that it's so effective? Thanks, Mr T!


----------



## mr t

secondhandshoes said:


> Hi Mr. T, I'm very new to this forum and was hoping you could answer some questions I have, since that's the reason you started this thread
> 
> I guess I'll start with some background ... I'm a 23 year old female, SA/GA and panic attacks due to PTSD from a near fatal cocaine overdose 5 years ago ... Currently on Nortriptyline (50mgs/day) and right now it's not helping whatsoever. I also have Klonopin(.5mgs) which I'm supposed to take "as needed" but lately as needed is always.
> 
> I've been on Nortriptyline for over a year, and at one time I was up to 100mgs and it was really helping, so much so that I had my doctor cut my Klonopin script in half (to save money since I didn't need the whole thing). I was able to do almost anything without having to worry about anxiety or panic attacks, or if I did have a panic attack it simply wasn't that big a deal. I've since regressed in my SA/GA and panic attacks, tried Zoloft in place of the Nortriptyline because I thought maybe the regression had something to so with the drug not working anymore. Hated the Zoloft so went back to Nortriptyline.
> 
> In the past I've tried Cymbalta which I liked, but had to switch to Nortriptyline when my doc ran out of samples, and was fine with the switch. Also Prozac - hated the sexual side effects, Wellbutrin - first one I tried, increased my anxiety so much after the first dose I refused to take another. If there were others I tried them for less than a month, and obviously didn't help. Only tried Klonpin as a benzo and prefer it over Xanax, taken Ativan recreationally before I developed SA/GA/PA.
> 
> Because of my awful insurance I can only go to this counseling center that is filled with a few people like us, trying to find real help, and the rest are drug seekers, or actual crazy people (I've seen someone straight jacketed there). When I say awful I mean I've been trying to get a new appointment with a new doctor for 3 months to change my medicine because I'm a g*ddamn wreak. Popping Klonpin all throughout the day, drinking just to calm myself down, which I'm embarrassed to say. Thinking I need a trip to the hospital, that's how worked up I get. Like most people on here, I'm just looking for some help.
> 
> _So after all that,_ my question is - Do you think Nardil + BusPar would be right for me? I mention the BusPar because I see a lot of complaints about sexual side effects, and that seems to counteract those effects and helps with the panic. Sexual side effects are one thing I really don't like to tolerate, I know nobody really wants to endure them, but that's a huge part of my life that I don't want changed because of this god awful affliction. Also, in regard to the side effects, which ones subside over time, and how long does it usually take?
> Thank you for any help you can give me!
> -Veronica


Really the sexual side effects of Nardil are overhyped. Most ppl start getting inorgasmia at 60mg which goes away most of the time after a couple months. Generally nardil does not have a negative effect on libido, though there are some cases, its nothing like an SSRI.

I had ssri sexual dysfunction and it lasted for years after being off the meds. Talk about horrible. Took me forever to start nardil bc i was scared of sexual side effects. I got inorgasmia at 60mg but i ended up dropping down to 45mg for other reasons and all the side effects went away.

I wouldnt really add buspar with nardil bc nardil already has plenty of serotonin activity. What keeps nardil from having terrible sexual dysfunction is that you are always increasing NE and dopamine transmission which are important for libido (sex drive). Basically if you do get some inorgasmia on nardil u can adjust dose or augment with something to get rid of it. It wont be a huge deal.

Nardil can give some ppl fatigue, that generally subsides. It can also cause insomnia, which i had already had a problem with before i took nardil. Insomnia was probably the worst part but sleep meds easily took care of that for me. It seems that it takes a while for insomnia to subside if you do have that problem and stay at high dose. Now at 45mg i dont really have any sleep problems.

Hope i answered what you needed!!! Feel free to follow up with more questions!


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> I've been taking nardil for about 9 weeks. I started with 45, went up to 75 after 3 weeks, had terrible sides and went down to 60 after 4 weeks. Been on that since. It started working cyclically about 4 weeks ago -- works for about 4 days, then stops for 4. Currently it has worked for 5 days.
> 
> I was mostly thinking about dropping the dose eventually as just a maintenance and to prevent crapout. I am absolutely petrified about crapout. If this stops working, I'm not sure that medicine has anything else for me. Not trying to spread negativity, but do you ever worry about this? Do you have a backup plan?
> 
> One last question: I've had the nardil farts bad lately. Does this fade with time at all (they just recently came on since the drug has been working). Is there any change in my diet that would help?


Dont worry about crap out from nardil. Ppl take it for years and never have problems with it. But if you're gonna be on it for many many years that when maintence dose comes in to play. Like ppl that have taken it for over a decade are on a maintence dose. I would try to acheive great benefits now at 60mg and then consider going down to 45mg or something.

Nardil just doesnt crap out like SSRIs do bc it boosts a whole range of NT as opposed to just one which throws the others out of balance.

Just keep staying at a dose that you are improving on until you feel pretty dam good. Then i would consider lowering the dose.

Although i switched down to 45mg after probably 4 months. BUT at the time i dropped doses i was feeling pretty amazing from nardil. So if you continue to not have great improvement after a good bit more time or not stable mood you might consider trying 45mg. Hope im not confusing you with these statements.

I've never gotten the nardil farts, sorry haha. Maybe if you are taking nardil without food, take it with food, or vice versa. Try to change up stuff like that and see if it could help.


----------



## mr t

johnwithsad said:


> Hi Mr T,
> 
> I've been having a hard time sending private messages on the site. Anyways, just a few questions about Lyrica, first, does it cause you any adverse side effects at all at 50 - 100 mgs per day? Also, I'm amazed that only 50 mg of Lyrica is so effective for you. Now I'm thinking most likely that 50mg by itself wouldn't do much good but I guess it's because you're taking it in conjunction with Nardil that it's so effective? Thanks, Mr T!


It can increase ppls appetites and cause weight gain. I never had a problem with this and dont think its a huge deal at these lower doses for most ppl. Lyrica is primarily prescribed for fibromyalgia or chronic pain and they take 300-500mg/day. Thats when side effects get ugly. I would stay at a lower dose, thats prob all youll need anyway if your taking it with nardil.

Yea i had taken lyrica before without nardil and it helped my anxiety out but it just wasnt enough.

Now taken nardil with lyrica is a whole different ball game. Serious anxiety relief.

At 100mg i was probably a little groggier than i am now at 50mg. Anyways i always drink couple cups of coffee in the morning and my mind clears and im ready to go.

At first when you take lyrica with nardil, at 100mg like the first night, it really knocked my socks off and i was just out. BEST SLEEP OF MY LIFE haha. You adjust to it quickly tho and dont get knocked out like that. Maybe the first couple nights at 100mg. I would start lower than that anyways.

I would definitely use the lowest effective dose tho. I was on 75mg at first and it was kicking in but i thought if i went to 100mg the benefits would set in faster. After i was having great anxiety relief at 100mg, i dropped back to 75mg, then to 50mg.

The less medicine you can take and be effective is always a good thing!!


----------



## Sierpinski

I took Nardil for about 18 months in 1991 and 1992. During that time, I had little or no SA. So what's the problem then? People said I was very rude and nasty on Nardil, i.e. it changed my personality in a bad way. I lost at least one friend whom I never got back. Does this sound familiar or was my reaction odd?


----------



## secondhandshoes

mr t said:


> Really the sexual side effects of Nardil are overhyped. Most ppl start getting inorgasmia at 60mg which goes away most of the time after a couple months. Generally nardil does not have a negative effect on libido, though there are some cases, its nothing like an SSRI.
> 
> I had ssri sexual dysfunction and it lasted for years after being off the meds. Talk about horrible. Took me forever to start nardil bc i was scared of sexual side effects. I got inorgasmia at 60mg but i ended up dropping down to 45mg for other reasons and all the side effects went away.
> 
> I wouldnt really add buspar with nardil bc nardil already has plenty of serotonin activity. What keeps nardil from having terrible sexual dysfunction is that you are always increasing NE and dopamine transmission which are important for libido (sex drive). Basically if you do get some inorgasmia on nardil u can adjust dose or augment with something to get rid of it. It wont be a huge deal.
> 
> Nardil can give some ppl fatigue, that generally subsides. It can also cause insomnia, which i had already had a problem with before i took nardil. Insomnia was probably the worst part but sleep meds easily took care of that for me. It seems that it takes a while for insomnia to subside if you do have that problem and stay at high dose. Now at 45mg i dont really have any sleep problems.
> 
> Hope i answered what you needed!!! Feel free to follow up with more questions!


Thanks, you helped a lot! I'm wondering why more doctors don't prescribe this? I guess what I'm asking is, do you, or anyone here, think they could anticipate my doctor not wanting to put me on this? It seems like it works so well for so many people! Right now insomnia seems like a small price to pay for some relief, and like you said, they have sleeping pills for that.
Does Nardil have a history of increasing anxiety/nervousness at first, like most SSRIs? I hadn't seen it mentioned, but figured I'd asked because that seems to be the worst part for me, and the reason I usally quit taking a new medicine that I try.


----------



## gilmourr

Hey Mr.T, anxiety still doing pretty well on 45 mg (tmmr is 6 weeks in total).

Not sure if I asked you this... (because I can't remember ironically) but do you have any memory issues? My memory is rock solid long term, and I think that my short term is as well. What is messed is my ability to recall memories/ideas/lyrics etc.

When I'm singing a song I know I forget the lyrics which I always know. When trying to remember certain names (celebrities) or things I've been educated on I can't recall them for a while (like 5 minutes usually).

** I always know the stuff, because everything is still stored in my long term memory, but it's as if Nardil hinders my ability to recall memories quickly. It takes me much longer, enough that it really bugs me. It's really a side effect that is bad enough that makes me doubt whether Nardil can be used long term.

I think it is just the GABA effect of Nardil.

Let me know if you had this issue, or if anyone else has. Also if provigil/nuvigil helped. I'm not sure if I can use a drug to counter this without messing up the GABA effects..

Stimulants will help me process/stay awake/analyze things quicker, but I'm not sure if it will help my memory..

Anyways, thanks again.

*TL;DR** My memory is still ****, how is yours? Did provigil/nuvigil help? Should this pass? This makes me wonder about Nardil long term. ***


----------



## mr t

secondhandshoes said:


> Thanks, you helped a lot! I'm wondering why more doctors don't prescribe this? I guess what I'm asking is, do you, or anyone here, think they could anticipate my doctor not wanting to put me on this? It seems like it works so well for so many people! Right now insomnia seems like a small price to pay for some relief, and like you said, they have sleeping pills for that.
> Does Nardil have a history of increasing anxiety/nervousness at first, like most SSRIs? I hadn't seen it mentioned, but figured I'd asked because that seems to be the worst part for me, and the reason I usally quit taking a new medicine that I try.


The main reason it isnt prescribed SSRIs are seen as much safer meds, nardil is an older drug, food and drug interactions, etc..

If you are a doctor and someone comes in with anxiety disorder you want to play the "safer" road and prescribe SSRI even when they arent really that effective for many people. Nardil is very effective but now its been made out to be a "last resort" drug because you have to avoid certain foods, drugs, and with SSRIs pretty much anything goes.

Its a real shame that MAOIs are labeled as so dangerous. Yes they can have bad consequences but thats if you dont follow the simple guidelines!

The food interaction list needs to be updated. Theres tons of stuff on there that are perfectly fine to eat. Others like blue cheese, really aged stuff you definitely dont wanna mess with. As for drugs interactions, avoid other antidepressants and decongestants. Thats easy to do.

But if you disregard this these food and drug interactions you can have bad consequences. Thats why doctors dont want to prescribe it quickly and alot of doctors are familiar with it, alot have never prescribed it!

No nardil never had increasing anxiety at first. The awesome thing for nardil is that for most ppl, you dont even feel like youre on a drug as opposed to being numbed and dumbed by an SSRI. Some ppl have fatigue on nardil. I never had that, but once you get past those SEs nardil just makes you feel better!


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Hey Mr.T, anxiety still doing pretty well on 45 mg (tmmr is 6 weeks in total).
> 
> Not sure if I asked you this... (because I can't remember ironically) but do you have any memory issues? My memory is rock solid long term, and I think that my short term is as well. What is messed is my ability to recall memories/ideas/lyrics etc.
> 
> When I'm singing a song I know I forget the lyrics which I always know. When trying to remember certain names (celebrities) or things I've been educated on I can't recall them for a while (like 5 minutes usually).
> 
> ** I always know the stuff, because everything is still stored in my long term memory, but it's as if Nardil hinders my ability to recall memories quickly. It takes me much longer, enough that it really bugs me. It's really a side effect that is bad enough that makes me doubt whether Nardil can be used long term.
> 
> I think it is just the GABA effect of Nardil.
> 
> Let me know if you had this issue, or if anyone else has. Also if provigil/nuvigil helped. I'm not sure if I can use a drug to counter this without messing up the GABA effects..
> 
> Stimulants will help me process/stay awake/analyze things quicker, but I'm not sure if it will help my memory..
> 
> Anyways, thanks again.
> 
> *TL;DR** My memory is still ****, how is yours? Did provigil/nuvigil help? Should this pass? This makes me wonder about Nardil long term. ***


My memory is fine now. I dont think i really had any memory problems from nardil, but even before on nardil, i believe due to my depression that my recall was pretty bad. i couldnt think of the particular words i wanted to say, it was like it was on the edge of my tongue but i couldnt pull up what i wanted to say. Again i attributed this to anxiety and depression.

I hope it passes for you, maybe as your NE and dopamine transmission continue to go up it will help some.

I would think that if you got your hands on some modafinil it would help. Its a great drug for clearing a foggy mind, making you alert, and it definitely helped me with word recall problems etc..


----------



## mr t

Sierpinski said:


> I took Nardil for about 18 months in 1991 and 1992. During that time, I had little or no SA. So what's the problem then? People said I was very rude and nasty on Nardil, i.e. it changed my personality in a bad way. I lost at least one friend whom I never got back. Does this sound familiar or was my reaction odd?


I havent ever heard of it making ppl more aggressive or anything like that..But everyone has different brain chemistry and maybe it caused that to happen.

Could it be possible that after it got rid of your SA, do you think that you were kind of still caught in a negative thought cycle or or had anger/emotion built up about having to deal with SA before? Its possible that you had alot of negative emotions built up from dealing with SA/or depression but never got to really express them because of the anxiety. Then it kind of flooded out?

Of course this theory is merely a shot in the dark, i dont know you personally or what you have been through. Its just a scenario that crossed my mind when i read your post. I'm no therapist/psychologist....


----------



## Sierpinski

mr t said:


> I havent ever heard of it making ppl more aggressive or anything like that..But everyone has different brain chemistry and maybe it caused that to happen.
> 
> Could it be possible that after it got rid of your SA, do you think that you were kind of still caught in a negative thought cycle or or had anger/emotion built up about having to deal with SA before? Its possible that you had alot of negative emotions built up from dealing with SA/or depression but never got to really express them because of the anxiety. Then it kind of flooded out?
> 
> Of course this theory is merely a shot in the dark, i dont know you personally or what you have been through. Its just a scenario that crossed my mind when i read your post. I'm no therapist/psychologist....


Just as well that you're not one. I've noticed that they don't have a firm grip on reality, but tend to live in a dream world. This even affects their lives outside the clinical setting, as I know from having non-therapeutic acquaintance with some of them. Given their authority, they are enormously dangerous people.

A lot of things have made me very angry. What you say is possible. I'm not sure.


----------



## Sierpinski

Quite frankly, if it weren't for that one side effect, I might go back on it. It was the only thing that effectively diminished my social anxiety for a long period of time. I got a little paunchy though. The gay world doesn't like paunchy.


----------



## KramersHalfSister

mr t said:


> When i first started supplementing B vitamins i had read the same things and spaced them out further away. Eventually i tried taking them just whenever, if it was with breakfast or lunch. I dont recall telling a huge difference. Try supplementing a B complex at different times of the day and see if you can tell a difference. Everyones different so see what works for you.
> 
> I would use a B complex, you can just get that at walmart. I recommend taking a complex without a huge amount of B6 since it interacts with Nardil. Basically what im saying is done buy some B6 pills themselves, take a b complex that has everything you need. Supplement a multivitamin as well. I've tried taking B6 at 100mg/day by itself. I definitely thought there were benefits but actually ended up preferring a complex instead. If the complex isnt doing great things you could try ordering B6 by itself. Its hard to differentiate what did what since I tried a ton of things a while back lol.
> 
> Whatever the case, B6 is crucial to GABA synthesis which is one of the main mechanisms nardil works for helping SA.
> 
> I definitely tell a difference when it comes to nardil if i take it on an empty stomach or not. I think i get a bigger dopamine boost from nardil taking it without food.
> 
> B vitamins are huge for metabolism, brain function, NT synthesis among other things.
> 
> Hmm to your point about carb cravings.. I'm not really sure if B vitamins do help with that. Whatever the case, when i use B complex it generally curbs my appetite some and stimulates my brain. Like i can focus more etc..
> 
> Eating carbs generally feeds more carb cravings. So if you can cut down on carbs a bit and eat more protein with your meals, that should cut down cravings some.


Just wanted to say thank you for such an informative reply! You even answered the questions that I forgot to ask lol. I appreciate it. Thanks!


----------



## Govinda

Hey Mr. T,
As I've already griped about, nardil seems to work for me only in cycles. I'm still on 60 mg and have been for about 4 weeks. When I have really crappy times I usually feel not only no beneficial effect from the nardil, but not no side effects either. It's as if my body becomes completely immune to the nardil for short spurts or something. Although I doubt that's what's actually happening.

Anyway, you mentioned that you only had modest fluctuations in efficacy yourself. * Did you notice any correlations between any other controllable variables and efficacy?* For example, amount of sleep, taking nardil with/without food, lack/presence of exercise, change in diet, timing of B vitamin supplementation, etc. ...* Anything remotely associated with efficacy? * It seems like antidepressant effectiveness is usually very related to sleep for me. For example, even crappy SSRI's seemed to work best right after I woke up in the morning -- maybe something having to do with serotonin production/regulation and circadian rhythm.


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> Hey Mr. T,
> As I've already griped about, nardil seems to work for me only in cycles. I'm still on 60 mg and have been for about 4 weeks. When I have really crappy times I usually feel not only no beneficial effect from the nardil, but not no side effects either. It's as if my body becomes completely immune to the nardil for short spurts or something. Although I doubt that's what's actually happening.
> 
> Anyway, you mentioned that you only had modest fluctuations in efficacy yourself. * Did you notice any correlations between any other controllable variables and efficacy?* For example, amount of sleep, taking nardil with/without food, lack/presence of exercise, change in diet, timing of B vitamin supplementation, etc. ...* Anything remotely associated with efficacy? * It seems like antidepressant effectiveness is usually very related to sleep for me. For example, even crappy SSRI's seemed to work best right after I woke up in the morning -- maybe something having to do with serotonin production/regulation and circadian rhythm.


Not getting enough sleep will mess up mood for anyone. Make sure you are getting enough sleep nightly.

Try taking your first 30mg of the day on an empty stomach in the morning. I feel that when i take it on an empty stomach as opposed to with food i get a much better dopamine and mood boost.

Getting exercise is good for mood in general. try and get on a treadmill sometime, or just jog/walk in your neighborhood.

Try adding B complex, or better yet add a multivitamin to your daily routine. You could try taking it at different times of the day. I would take this with food to avoid nausea.

Also, i recommend adding 3000 IU vitamin D daily. Vitamin D is great for mood and is very important in regulating that through NT synthesis.


----------



## Govinda

Can you take niacinamide with nardil? Or will that cause a hypertensive crisis?


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> Can you take niacinamide with nardil? Or will that cause a hypertensive crisis?


Its fine to take that. Niacin is B3 and is coverted to niacinamide.

B3 is in b complex and i take that all the time.


----------



## Govinda

Cool. What reading were you referring to with KramersHalfSister -- the stuff about B vitamins possibly interfering with nardil's effectiveness? I know you said you didn't find it to be the case for you, but I just like to be informed. Also, I'm taking large doses of niacinamide, so I hope that's not interfering at all. If it is, I could maybe take it at other times.


And just to update you, I am a nardil believer and it seems to be helping quite a bit. I think I'm close to 12 weeks and still hoping for some improvement, although if it stops here I won't feel cheated. I find it much easier to look people in the eyes and to speak my mind. Combined with exposure therapy and lyrica, I've gone from near-agoraphobic to active in life. I find most of the time I walk into situations nervous that things will be the way they used to all of a sudden, like a rat in a maze waiting for that old shock that won't come anymore. And it usually doesn't come for me. So, hopefully full extinction will take place and I'll keep moving on with my life.

How is it with you? Are you a more active player in your own life now?


----------



## viper1431

It's only B6 that is the issue, the other b vitamins arn't mentioned as having the same issue.


----------



## ThirdEyeGrind

Does anyone know if it is relatively safe to smoke K2 while being on Nardil?


----------



## CD700

Do you guys think its dangerous to cold turkey a MAOI ? Is it really any different to other meds ? I can't find much info of people doing it


----------



## gilmourr

blakeyz said:


> Do you guys think its dangerous to cold turkey a MAOI ? Is it really any different to other meds ? I can't find much info of people doing it


Physically, probably not. Mentally, most definitely. I stopped Nardil from like 60 mg flat out last time and I had like crazy night terrors so bad that I literally became afraid to close my eyes even for like 30 minutes.

My eyes also were bloodshot so badly that they burned massively, probably from my mind short wiring.

If you want to stop the parnate, you can come off it quick, but don't cold turkey it ever. Just because it isn't doing anything doesn't mean that you won't have crazy withdrawals.

** and of course, the depression hit hard. In like 5-6 days I had already stopped doing anything whatsoever with anybody.


----------



## CD700

gilmourr said:


> Physically, probably not. Mentally, most definitely. I stopped Nardil from like 60 mg flat out last time and I had like crazy night terrors so bad that I literally became afraid to close my eyes even for like 30 minutes.
> 
> My eyes also were bloodshot so badly that they burned massively, probably from my mind short wiring.
> 
> If you want to stop the parnate, you can come off it quick, but don't cold turkey it ever. Just because it isn't doing anything doesn't mean that you won't have crazy withdrawals.
> 
> ** and of course, the depression hit hard. In like 5-6 days I had already stopped doing anything whatsoever with anybody.


Yeah I already started
Not a full cold turkey though but close enough
Yes so far the dreams are crazy as **** lol. 
I'm only waiting 4 days until I start Pristiq. The 2 week clean out is just bureaucracy.


----------



## derrickk

_ have just been prescribed this, but I cant start taking it for about a week because I just stopped taking buspirone. Ill let everyone know how it goes._


----------



## Govinda

Anyone know about the specific profile of mao's and neurotransmitters affected by nardil over time? Is it like serotonin is typically the chief one effected in week 5, but eventually GABA is equally influenced? Is it a static mixture of effect or a dynamic one; and is it random from person to person?

I ask because lately I feel like I get too much serotonin -- you know the feeling when you take an SSRI and it's comin on too strong? It feels like that. Sometimes I feel like the cocktail is just right. I did recently add mega doses of niacinamide and stopped taking other vitamins because I'm confused about the b6 controversy. Maybe that's it. I hope so.


----------



## CailinGaelach

*Re: Nardil questions? Contact me! (Mr. T)*

Hey Mr T! -- Hope you're still around. (Your original post was in 2010).
MY SAS has gotten so bad, I haven't been able to leave my home since February (6 months now). SSRIs and the like never worked for me. Neither did ECT or Deep Brain Stimulation. I had such horrible side effects from the SSRIs, I swore them off years ago, but my doc convinced me to try an MAOI. In Canada, we can get Manerix, a 'reversible MAOI', with fewer side effect worries. And it worked really well & fast, but pooped out really fast, too, and that was at an extremely high dose of 1200mg. So we're going to try Parnate...
My question is, why is there even a waiting period in making the transition when they're virtually the same type of med. I'm down to 300mg of Manerix, but dangerously depressed now, so the sooner I get started on the Parnate, the better. Also, she's starting me on just 10mg!? I've read 30mg is the average starting dose. You mentioned 15mg to start. Even that sounds more reasonable. But my main question is, how long should the transition time be when swiching from a reversible MAOI like Manerix to Parnate? And why?...
Sooooo happy to hear of your positive response to this drug. It gives me hope when I was feeling ready to give up again.
I'll try to be patient in awaiting your reply and look forward to sharing your views.

Hope things are still going well for you,
CailinGaelach


----------



## CailinGaelach

*Re: Nardil questions? Contact me! (Mr. T) .2*

Oi ! Sorry, Mr. T, I messed up! My mind is mush right now. I confused the Nardil you're taking with the other MAOI, Parnate, that my doc recommended due to my chronic fatigue. So I don't know if my 'transitioning time' question will apply here. Total brain fog. But let me know if you might have any insight, anyway. Otherwise I'll start a new thread.

Thanks again,
CailinGaelach


----------



## mr t

Govinda said:


> Anyone know about the specific profile of mao's and neurotransmitters affected by nardil over time? Is it like serotonin is typically the chief one effected in week 5, but eventually GABA is equally influenced? Is it a static mixture of effect or a dynamic one; and is it random from person to person?
> 
> I ask because lately I feel like I get too much serotonin -- you know the feeling when you take an SSRI and it's comin on too strong? It feels like that. Sometimes I feel like the cocktail is just right. I did recently add mega doses of niacinamide and stopped taking other vitamins because I'm confused about the b6 controversy. Maybe that's it. I hope so.


Nardil boosts serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, gaba transmission.

B6 can interact with nardil and cause them to be unreactive.

Suggestions of B6 supplementation is due to the fact that nardil could lower b6 levels by interacting with it.

Its not a huge deal, just take a multivitamin to get enough B6 supplemented.


----------



## mr t

CailinGaelach said:


> Hey Mr T! -- Hope you're still around. (Your original post was in 2010).
> MY SAS has gotten so bad, I haven't been able to leave my home since February (6 months now). SSRIs and the like never worked for me. Neither did ECT or Deep Brain Stimulation. I had such horrible side effects from the SSRIs, I swore them off years ago, but my doc convinced me to try an MAOI. In Canada, we can get Manerix, a 'reversible MAOI', with fewer side effect worries. And it worked really well & fast, but pooped out really fast, too, and that was at an extremely high dose of 1200mg. So we're going to try Parnate...
> My question is, why is there even a waiting period in making the transition when they're virtually the same type of med. I'm down to 300mg of Manerix, but dangerously depressed now, so the sooner I get started on the Parnate, the better. Also, she's starting me on just 10mg!? I've read 30mg is the average starting dose. You mentioned 15mg to start. Even that sounds more reasonable. But my main question is, how long should the transition time be when swiching from a reversible MAOI like Manerix to Parnate? And why?...
> Sooooo happy to hear of your positive response to this drug. It gives me hope when I was feeling ready to give up again.
> I'll try to be patient in awaiting your reply and look forward to sharing your views.
> 
> Hope things are still going well for you,
> CailinGaelach


The transition shouldnt take too long since both are MAOIs. They both inhibit MAO which would breakdown neurotransmitters. They both have similar mechanism.


----------



## jakeforpresident

mr t,

have you noticed any symptoms of mania or increased aggression/violent thoughts?

Taking an MAOI can reproduce the genetic results of the "warrior gene." One guy killed his wife but got a reduced sentence because he had the less active version of the MAO-a gene. Here's the article:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201007/pity-the-poor-murderer-his-genes-made-him-do-it


----------



## mr t

jakeforpresident said:


> mr t,
> 
> have you noticed any symptoms of mania or increased aggression/violent thoughts?
> 
> Taking an MAOI can reproduce the genetic results of the "warrior gene." One guy killed his wife but got a reduced sentence because he had the less active version of the MAO-a gene. Here's the article:
> 
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ty-the-poor-murderer-his-genes-made-him-do-it


No i have not experienced those symptoms.

If it is how his lawyer claims, his genes dont produced as much MAO-A which hampers his decision making in the prefrontal cortex, making him more impulsive.

I thought it was important to read this part of the article:



> So far, a skilled defense lawyer might weave a tale that the bad gene had gotten the better of the European American defendant. The key scientific problem is that about *34 percent of Europeans have the warrior gene.* Yet, homicide is extremely rare at a population level with only about one person in 100 committing a homicide during their lives.* If the gene were used to predict homicide, it would be wrong more than 33 times for every one occasion that it was right*


I dont think this should be a concern for ppl who are considering MAOIs. This is most likely a lawyer using a small bit of science and a ton of BS to win their case.

Where does it say that taking an MAOI could reproduce warrior gene. This guy was not on an MAOI. They are claiming that he doesnt produce enough MAO-A. Nardil inhibits both MAOI-A, and MAOI-B.

They sound like they could theoretically have similar effects, but theres just not enough evidence to link MAOIs with a gene defect.


----------



## Sur

I got a question for you mr t. I have an appointment with my psych in two weeks, going to try and get nardil. Ive been taking lorazapam (ativan) for these few days. 1mg each day.

Is this going to cause any problems? Should I stop the ativan?


----------



## secondhandshoes

mr t said:


> The main reason it isnt prescribed SSRIs are seen as much safer meds, nardil is an older drug, food and drug interactions, etc..
> 
> If you are a doctor and someone comes in with anxiety disorder you want to play the "safer" road and prescribe SSRI even when they arent really that effective for many people. Nardil is very effective but now its been made out to be a "last resort" drug because you have to avoid certain foods, drugs, and with SSRIs pretty much anything goes.
> 
> Its a real shame that MAOIs are labeled as so dangerous. Yes they can have bad consequences but thats if you dont follow the simple guidelines!
> 
> The food interaction list needs to be updated. Theres tons of stuff on there that are perfectly fine to eat. Others like blue cheese, really aged stuff you definitely dont wanna mess with. As for drugs interactions, avoid other antidepressants and decongestants. Thats easy to do.
> 
> But if you disregard this these food and drug interactions you can have bad consequences. Thats why doctors dont want to prescribe it quickly and alot of doctors are familiar with it, alot have never prescribed it!
> 
> No nardil never had increasing anxiety at first. The awesome thing for nardil is that for most ppl, you dont even feel like youre on a drug as opposed to being numbed and dumbed by an SSRI. Some ppl have fatigue on nardil. I never had that, but once you get past those SEs nardil just makes you feel better!


Thanks again! I've an appointment in 7 days (counting down, obviously) and I'm really going to push my doctor to try this. I have a few more questions...
1. Is there possibly an updated food/drug interaction list posted on here you could direct me to? Or just give me a run down of the most important? I know you mentioned aged foods. Any alcohol I should avoid? I'm on Tomapax and birth control right now, not sure if they interact with Nardil, but I steer clear of decongestants, they've always made me "climb the walls".
2. I've noticed a lot of people having to mod there dosage after a few months or so, is there a general rule of thumb, so to speak that I could follow to get the best effects of this drug? Hate to say it but I don't have much trust in my doctor, but he's my only option because of my insurance .. You're probably more informed about this drug than he is. I want to keep all this information handy in case I feel it "craping out", I'll know there's something I can do.
3. How long does it usually take to feel a difference in anxiety levels? I'm not expecting a miracle in a month, but I'm sick of getting anxious ad nauseum just to go out for drinks with my friends.

Thank you for all your help, I'm really hoping I get relieve from this drug.


----------



## gilmourr

Hey Mr.T quick question about constipation.

At 60 mg, my movements have been much more infrequent. I believe every 5-6 days. I know last time I took Nardil and increased it to 75 quickly that I actually had to wait 13 days one time!

Anyways. Is there a severe issue with the constipation? I know it can cause hemmeroids which is fine, but can it cause huge colon issues like cancer and ****?

Currently I'm doing my best to alleviate the constipation by drinking mad amounts of water daily and eating vegetables like crazy. 

I've actually gone dairy, lactose and gluten free to see if that is the cause of my nausea since I'm dairy/lactose intolerant (but I've always cut those out of my diet) just recently did the gluten because it isn't as bad of an intolerance and you never know! Until then I purchased Zantac/Gravol to cover nausea (which I still have NO idea why I'm getting it).

Doing well still on the Nardil. So easy when you take it slow.


----------



## secondhandshoes

secondhandshoes said:


> Thanks again! I've an appointment in 7 days (counting down, obviously) and I'm really going to push my doctor to try this. I have a few more questions...
> 1. Is there possibly an updated food/drug interaction list posted on here you could direct me to? Or just give me a run down of the most important? I know you mentioned aged foods. Any alcohol I should avoid? I'm on Tomapax and birth control right now, not sure if they interact with Nardil, but I steer clear of decongestants, they've always made me "climb the walls".
> 2. I've noticed a lot of people having to mod there dosage after a few months or so, is there a general rule of thumb, so to speak that I could follow to get the best effects of this drug? Hate to say it but I don't have much trust in my doctor, but he's my only option because of my insurance .. You're probably more informed about this drug than he is. I want to keep all this information handy in case I feel it "craping out", I'll know there's something I can do.
> 3. How long does it usually take to feel a difference in anxiety levels? I'm not expecting a miracle in a month, but I'm sick of getting anxious ad nauseum just to go out for drinks with my friends.
> 
> Thank you for all your help, I'm really hoping I get relieve from this drug.


One more question! Haha sorry ... If my doctor refuses to put me on this for some reason (old drug, too many food/drug interactions, etc), is there another med or combo you would suggest? Like I said, I feel like you might actually know more than he does. Thanks again Mr T.


----------



## Sierpinski

jakeforpresident said:


> mr t,
> 
> have you noticed any symptoms of mania or increased aggression/violent thoughts?
> 
> Taking an MAOI can reproduce the genetic results of the "warrior gene." One guy killed his wife but got a reduced sentence because he had the less active version of the MAO-a gene. Here's the article:
> 
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201007/pity-the-poor-murderer-his-genes-made-him-do-it


I'm not sure it's the same thing, but people found me very offensive on Nardil. I remember feeling very excited and talkative.


----------



## Sur

Is anyone here bipolar 2 and taking nardil? I might start Nardil soon but I am worried that I might be bipolar 2.

Although a few quick searches on google showed me that some bipolar 2 people actually have been using Nardil with great success.


----------



## jakeforpresident

Sierpinski said:


> I'm not sure it's the same thing, but people found me very offensive on Nardil. I remember feeling very excited and talkative.


I don't remember being terribly angry, I do remember being more quiet, unlike you i guess, and avoiding people in general.

I wasn't anxious about my isolation any longer, i just didn't care as much, because people became more irritating than intimidating. So i guess you could call that improvement.

and yes, MAO inhibition would be like an extreme version of the low-activity MAO-A gene. You wouldn't necessarily become violent, but you would be more emotionally reactive. Couple that with a violent childhood and you would then be at risk for homicidality, which, as mrt stated, was very rare despite the high prevalence of this gene.

Personally, id love a med that INCREASES the amount of MAO in your brain, as this would calm the amygdala and possibly symptoms of anxiety and depression. Like cleaning up the garbage of amines instead of lording over a larger heap LOL.

Nardil is the golden standard for SAD, it just didn't work for me in the year i stuck with it. But if it works for you, go for it!


----------



## mr t

Sur said:


> I got a question for you mr t. I have an appointment with my psych in two weeks, going to try and get nardil. Ive been taking lorazapam (ativan) for these few days. 1mg each day.
> 
> Is this going to cause any problems? Should I stop the ativan?


No it wont cause any problems! I take ativan at night to help me sleep.. been on it for a while with nardil and ive taken it during the day in the past for certain situations.

Theres no contradiction!


----------



## mr t

secondhandshoes said:


> Thanks again! I've an appointment in 7 days (counting down, obviously) and I'm really going to push my doctor to try this. I have a few more questions...
> 1. Is there possibly an updated food/drug interaction list posted on here you could direct me to? Or just give me a run down of the most important? I know you mentioned aged foods. Any alcohol I should avoid? I'm on Tomapax and birth control right now, not sure if they interact with Nardil, but I steer clear of decongestants, they've always made me "climb the walls".
> 2. I've noticed a lot of people having to mod there dosage after a few months or so, is there a general rule of thumb, so to speak that I could follow to get the best effects of this drug? Hate to say it but I don't have much trust in my doctor, but he's my only option because of my insurance .. You're probably more informed about this drug than he is. I want to keep all this information handy in case I feel it "craping out", I'll know there's something I can do.
> 3. How long does it usually take to feel a difference in anxiety levels? I'm not expecting a miracle in a month, but I'm sick of getting anxious ad nauseum just to go out for drinks with my friends.
> 
> Thank you for all your help, I'm really hoping I get relieve from this drug.


Here are a couple links to better updated lists of food/drug interactions. They are not perfect in my opinion but they are better than original lists:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105365962
http://www.scribd.com/doc/105365965

It probably took 5-6 weeks to start kicking in. But once i initially recognized its effects, the benefits increased daily.

The general rule i would say: 15mg first week
30mg second week
45mg week 3-4
60mg week 5 AND STAY AT THIS DOSE!


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Hey Mr.T quick question about constipation.
> 
> At 60 mg, my movements have been much more infrequent. I believe every 5-6 days. I know last time I took Nardil and increased it to 75 quickly that I actually had to wait 13 days one time!
> 
> Anyways. Is there a severe issue with the constipation? I know it can cause hemmeroids which is fine, but can it cause huge colon issues like cancer and ****?
> 
> Currently I'm doing my best to alleviate the constipation by drinking mad amounts of water daily and eating vegetables like crazy.
> 
> I've actually gone dairy, lactose and gluten free to see if that is the cause of my nausea since I'm dairy/lactose intolerant (but I've always cut those out of my diet) just recently did the gluten because it isn't as bad of an intolerance and you never know! Until then I purchased Zantac/Gravol to cover nausea (which I still have NO idea why I'm getting it).
> 
> Doing well still on the Nardil. So easy when you take it slow.


Start adding a magnesium supplement at night.

I use ZMA which is zinc magnesium aspartate: its the most highly bioavailable form of magnesium. I take it every night, and trust me i never have a problem going


----------



## feelalone

Hi mr t I'm on Nardil for 9 weeks on a dose of 60 mg. Before I started with 15 mg and after 5 weeks I gradually reach the actual dose of 60 mg.

I still don't see any positive effect, only side effects like constipation, anorgasmia, insomnia, etc.

Do you think 9-10 weeks are still few? I have to continue taking it or this med isn't good for me?


----------



## mr t

feelalone said:


> Hi mr t I'm on Nardil for 9 weeks on a dose of 60 mg. Before I started with 15 mg and after 5 weeks I gradually reach the actual dose of 60 mg.
> 
> I still don't see any positive effect, only side effects like constipation, anorgasmia, insomnia, etc.
> 
> Do you think 9-10 weeks are still few? I have to continue taking it or this med isn't good for me?


Hmmm. If i were u i would go back down to 45mg for less side effects and then stay at that dose to give it a bit more time.

Still no response I would either:
1. augment with lyrica and nuvigil/provigil
2. Try parnate


----------



## mr t

*Maoi diet list*

Here is the link to pdf file i uploaded:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105365962

I think this is one of the better ive found online and is far more than the original MAOI diet lists. I dont agree completely with this list but it is more reasonable than most others. I will list my disagreements below.

**A few of my own notes on this list**:

I've found these "prohibited" foods OK to eat:
Cheeses: cheddar, provolone, parmensan
Soy sauce
Caffeine
Chocolate
whey protein powder


----------



## feelalone

mr t said:


> Hmmm. If i were u i would go back down to 45mg for less side effects and then stay at that dose to give it a bit more time.
> 
> Still no response I would either:
> 1. augment with lyrica and nuvigil/provigil
> 2. Try parnate


Thanks for your answer, I consider go back down to 45 mg I think it's a good idea too


----------



## viper1431

Not saying this just for the sake of dissagreeing but in my experiance i'd spend a week really hitting it with a higher dose like 90mg.. see if it kicks it into action. If it does then you can lower it to help with the side effects. That's just my experiance with the only way i've been able to get nardil to work for me.
I can spend months on 45 with no help.. it's not until i hit it with high doises for a short period that i get the positive effects, but of course extra side effects during that time.


----------



## spartan7

** ATTENTION**

Nardil does not work for social anxiety anymore since 2003 when the drug was sold to phizer they took out inactive ingredients and now doesnt work for social anxiety just for depression. You can check the internet theres THOUSANDS of people who complain about the new nardil after 2003 not working for Social anxiety anymore.


----------



## Sur

spartan7 said:


> ** ATTENTION**
> 
> Nardil does not work for social anxiety anymore since 2003 when the drug was sold to phizer they took out inactive ingredients and now doesnt work for social anxiety just for depression. You can check the internet theres THOUSANDS of people who complain about the new nardil after 2003 not working for Social anxiety anymore.


Why do you go around preaching that even though there is a bunch of people saying how good it works? You go around like a preacher trying to stop people from trying Nardil. I think your just mad that it didn't work for you, and thats inevitable with any drug. Sometimes it doesn't work. Your mad that it didn't help you and you want everyone to feel how bad you feel too. Thats some cowardly **** bro.


----------



## millenniumman75

spartan7 said:


> ** ATTENTION**
> 
> Nardil does not work for social anxiety anymore since 2003 when the drug was sold to phizer they took out inactive ingredients and now doesnt work for social anxiety just for depression. You can check the internet theres THOUSANDS of people who complain about the new nardil after 2003 not working for Social anxiety anymore.


Please dont shout like this. What does not work for one may work for another.


----------



## CailinGaelach

Hey mr t,

I'm trying an MAOI (Parnate) for the first time. I also need to get some major dental work done, and now I find out MAOIs present a real problem with dental anesthesia. I know one of the alternatives is to "simply" come off the MAOI for a week before; I'm not sure if there are any anesthetic alternatives or strong painkillers that are also an option.

Just wondering if you've come up against this problem, yet, yourself (being on Nardil) or if you have any more information on the subject.

Thanks!


----------



## Black Flame

Thank you very much Mr. T!!! I just posted a question about Nardil myself.


----------



## mr t

CailinGaelach said:


> Hey mr t,
> 
> I'm trying an MAOI (Parnate) for the first time. I also need to get some major dental work done, and now I find out MAOIs present a real problem with dental anesthesia. I know one of the alternatives is to "simply" come off the MAOI for a week before; I'm not sure if there are any anesthetic alternatives or strong painkillers that are also an option.
> 
> Just wondering if you've come up against this problem, yet, yourself (being on Nardil) or if you have any more information on the subject.
> 
> Thanks!


If they are putting you under (general anesthesia) its recommended to come off MAOIs because it risks complications. If its local anesthesia (numbing the area) , as long as they dont use an anesthetic w/epinephrine you should be ok.


----------



## CailinGaelach

*Nardil questions? contact me*



mr t said:


> If they are putting you under (general anesthesia) its recommended to come off MAOIs because it risks complications. If its local anesthesia (numbing the area) , as long as they dont use an anesthetic w/epinephrine you should be ok.


Thanks much, mr t; this was helpful.


----------



## spartan7

spartan7 said:


> ** ATTENTION**
> 
> Nardil does not work for social anxiety anymore since 2003 when the drug was sold to phizer they took out inactive ingredients and now doesnt work for social anxiety just for depression. You can check the internet theres THOUSANDS of people who complain about the new nardil after 2003 not working for Social anxiety anymore.


:mum


----------



## CailinGaelach

spartan7 said:


> :mum


How many times are you going to keep yelling this message?
Do you need attention?
You been asked twice before on this thread to please stop, so stop already, and maybe post on a forum that's more in line with your philosophies. :sus


----------



## puppy

I'm pretty sure spartan7 is a shill for the drug companies who want us to buy patented drugs.


----------



## CailinGaelach

Nothing would surprise me in that realm anymore -- even if they used emos!
Haha.

TC


----------



## mr t

here is a testimony of success adding lyrica to nardil. It was posted on another thread of mine.



johnwithsad said:


> Mr. T, I took your advice and got a 50mg script of Lyrica from my psychiatrist to augment with my low dose (45mg) of Nardil. Long story short, it is very effective at kicking anxiety's **s (as you so eloquently put it! lol).
> 
> BUT, and it's a very big BUT (unfortunately), the Lyrica gave me anorgasmia that was worse than if I'm just taking Nardil by itself.
> 
> After I started reading online reviews for Lyrica, I learned that it's a big problem for people who are using it. I didn't think 50mg, which is a pretty small dose overall, would cause it but I was definately wrong.
> 
> So, now I'm contemplating trying it again with the smallest dose available for Lyrica, which is 25mg. The 50mg worked so well at alleviating my anxiety that I'm hoping that 25mg might work okay as well with maybe not so much anorgasmia. Anyways, it's worth a shot.
> 
> But anyone who is interested in trying Lyrica with low dose Nardil, it does work well to kill your anxiety. If sex isn't a concern for you at the moment, I would highly recommend it.


----------



## jc22

How do you get hold of this stuff?


----------



## Govinda

I know you say that nardil doesn't crap out on people, but it's doing so for me. All other variables (exercise, diet, routine, work, etc.) are being controlled. It's definitely the drug.

Is there anything I can do other than simply up the dosage or change to parnate? I mean, is there something that I can add to the cocktail? I already take lyrica and propranolol. What the devil do I do?! My new life is falling apart!


----------



## puppy

jc22 said:


> How do you get hold of this stuff?


Find a doctor who likes MAOIs. When my doctor didn't want to prescribe me one, I asked to refer me to someone with experience prescribing MAOIs, called the first one his list, and he turned out to be a really great doctor who was more than willing to prescribe me Nardil. My pharmacist's husband also gets his MAOI prescribed by the same guy.


----------



## crossfadex

For those on Nardil, do you have to go to your psychiatrist very routinely? I started seeing this guy who has a few patients on Nardil and I know Nardil is within my reach (currently on effexor but its not helping). The problem is that I have to spend about $200 every time I see him (4 weeks) and as a college student, that gets to be a lot of money. 

My question is..should I get Nardil and see if my family doctor would prescribe it to me? Who would be willing to prescribe Nardil besides a pdoc? Or should I get Nardil and find another psychiatrist who uses my insurance and try to continue receiving Nardil from him?

I just don't see the point in spending $200 a month just to say "Yeah Nardil is working great. Can I has refill?"


----------



## puppy

I went once a month after first being prescribed Nardil, now I go once every two months and might be able to stretch it even further if I asked (my insurance covers my visits though so a 15 minute appt is no biggie for me). Your family doctor may continue your Nardil prescription if a psychiatrist prescribes it to you to begin with. You might also be able to find another psych to keep prescribing (just ask your current psych to refer you to some doctors with experience prescribing MAOIs and call them to see who takes your insurance), although my pharmacist complains that when her husband sees a new doc they always want to take him off MAOIs (he goes to the same psych as me now, who is very MAOI friendly).


----------



## mr t

crossfadex said:


> For those on Nardil, do you have to go to your psychiatrist very routinely? I started seeing this guy who has a few patients on Nardil and I know Nardil is within my reach (currently on effexor but its not helping). The problem is that I have to spend about $200 every time I see him (4 weeks) and as a college student, that gets to be a lot of money.
> 
> My question is..should I get Nardil and see if my family doctor would prescribe it to me? Who would be willing to prescribe Nardil besides a pdoc? Or should I get Nardil and find another psychiatrist who uses my insurance and try to continue receiving Nardil from him?
> 
> I just don't see the point in spending $200 a month just to say "Yeah Nardil is working great. Can I has refill?"


Get an appt with this psych and get prescribed nardil. Explain to him your financial situation. Im sure they ll understand you can figure a plan out with them.

I am in kind of the same set up, expensive appts about once a month. Sometimes i cant make the appts and just get my pharmacy to fax a request for a refill or call the secretary and ask for one. They psychs not gonna cut u off simply because you havent made an appt, unless you stop going to see him at all.

If you are on nardil the doc will want to take your blood pressure and see how you are doing overall. I would stick with the psych and just see him ocassionally if you can.

Good luck!!


----------



## spartan7

*nardil does not work anymore since they reforumlated the drug back in 2003.* it no longer works for sa. Migiht as well saveyourself time and not take it. I took it at all doses. Its just for depressed mofos


----------



## mr t

spartan7 said:


> *nardil does not work anymore since they reforumlated the drug back in 2003.* it no longer works for sa. Migiht as well saveyourself time and not take it. I took it at all doses. Its just for depressed mofos


the "reformulation" was just changing out the fillers, it still contains the same amount of phenelzine.

Yes there are people who were on it before 2003 that did not respond well to the generic nardil.

However, people who have never taken the old nardil and take the nardil available now have great success.


----------



## viper1431

Don't think it was even as far as the fillers, just the coating on the tablet.
I'd love for him to explain how the phenelzine could have changed in a way that it can still treat depression but not SAD when it can only do the same thing it's always done. Only explenation is if he thinks the phenelzine molocules are intelligent and once in the body decide what they will teat or not.


----------



## CD700

Yo DR T
I been getting spontaneous blood spatter from my anus. It's really embarrassing when it happens in public and it's making my Social Phobia worse. 
What should I do about it ? Is there something I can take because I'm running out of underwear.


----------



## CD700

BTW I'm just joking
I took way to much modalert and in a stupid mood lol
Kudos for coming back to SAS and giving advice 2 people


----------



## puppy

You're joking, but I really was farting blood after some particularly bad Nardil constipation. Really a pain in the *** to have to go to a toilet just to fart, especially when Nardil makes you wanna fart every five minutes.


----------



## gilmourr

Hey Mr.T since coming off of the 60 mg I've been doing well mood swing wise (as in, no more mood swings). 

When I went down to 45 mg my anxiety was really bad for a while (week and a half) then it stopped for 4-5 days, and now it's picking up again. I also am having pretty weird kind of like hyperrflexia. I jump at every sudden noise, like when my computer dings, or the clock rings or the phone rings or something snaps. It's seriously strange, and I even kind of feel like a shock from it.

Is this just the anxiety or is it something on top of the anxiety? I'm about 20 days into the 45 mg. And my side effects from 60 mg have completely ceased now.

Look forward to you answering.

BTW I also don't use any milk products or egg products. I also take no calcium supplements, and I sometimes take a B6 supplement but that's it. I also eat a lot of gluten free stuff


----------



## basuraeuropea

gilmourr said:


> Hey Mr.T since coming off of the 60 mg I've been doing well mood swing wise (as in, no more mood swings).
> 
> When I went down to 45 mg my anxiety was really bad for a while (week and a half) then it stopped for 4-5 days, and now it's picking up again. I also am having pretty weird kind of like hyperrflexia. I jump at every sudden noise, like when my computer dings, or the clock rings or the phone rings or something snaps. It's seriously strange, and I even kind of feel like a shock from it.
> 
> Is this just the anxiety or is it something on top of the anxiety? I'm about 20 days into the 45 mg. And my side effects from 60 mg have completely ceased now.
> 
> Look forward to you answering.
> 
> BTW I also don't use any milk products or egg products. I also take no calcium supplements, and I sometimes take a B6 supplement but that's it. I also eat a lot of gluten free stuff


then adding bupropion as you were suggesting in another thread would probably not be the smartest of ideas given your high state of anxiety.


----------



## gilmourr

basuraeuropea said:


> then adding bupropion as you were suggesting in another thread would probably not be the smartest of ideas given your high state of anxiety.


Of course not, but when the nardil 45 mg balances out my anxiety is lower than my depression. Therefore wellbutrin becomes an option. I wouldn't start a 2nd med before my 1st one leveled out.


----------



## puppy

gilmourr said:


> Hey Mr.T since coming off of the 60 mg I've been doing well mood swing wise (as in, no more mood swings).
> 
> When I went down to 45 mg my anxiety was really bad for a while (week and a half) then it stopped for 4-5 days, and now it's picking up again. I also am having pretty weird kind of like hyperrflexia. I jump at every sudden noise, like when my computer dings, or the clock rings or the phone rings or something snaps. It's seriously strange, and I even kind of feel like a shock from it.
> 
> Is this just the anxiety or is it something on top of the anxiety? I'm about 20 days into the 45 mg. And my side effects from 60 mg have completely ceased now.
> 
> Look forward to you answering.
> 
> BTW I also don't use any milk products or egg products. I also take no calcium supplements, and I sometimes take a B6 supplement but that's it. I also eat a lot of gluten free stuff


I think that's just a side-effect, not anxiety. I had the same thing, including the shock feeling. Nardil side-effects are weird in that they can go away and then come back again with no dosage change. I'd just stick it out and try not to read to much into it.


----------



## hope4all

hi mr T. im lizzy & suffer social phobia & depression, im starting nardil next monday so so so nervous cause of all the bad stuff people say about it, ive tried most ssris/snris/tcas/ benzo therapy noting works at any dose. i was on nardil last year around xmas for 3 months i swear it was def working, i felt happy & content i felt i wanted to be involved in this world, but i was always nervous of food & alcohol in case i dropped dead. but what really stopped me using this med was the cronic insomina, i was at 45mg per day, do you think the diet is too strict & what dosage would you advise. please give a little advice bad or good i dnt mind, thank you so much:blank


----------



## Inshallah

*So*

How bad are the sexual side effects, for those that have been on Nardil? Honest answers only please


----------



## puppy

It will completely disable you sexually at first. Anorgasmia and erectile dysfunction (sometimes the former without the latter). It mostly went away for me after a few months, though I still have delayed ejaculation (for me that's a positive).


----------



## jangle1

I vaguely remember what life is like without social anxiety disorder. It's been so long..

so when people say that Nardil cured their SA, how can they really know? I mean is it you just feel at ease in social situations? What's it like?


----------



## gilmourr

Inshallah said:


> How bad are the sexual side effects, for those that have been on Nardil? Honest answers only please


No effect until I hit 60 mg.


----------



## viper1431

jangle1 said:


> I vaguely remember what life is like without social anxiety disorder. It's been so long..
> 
> so when people say that Nardil cured their SA, how can they really know? I mean is it you just feel at ease in social situations? What's it like?


Well i know because the difference is huge.. i'm talking to people with ease, i'm outside more and have been talking to family members more this year than in the last 30 years combined.


----------



## Ronnieboi

I just got Nardil prescribed by my doctor today. I deal with severe SAD and basically can't even attend a classroom without combining Clonazapem and Beta-Blockers. I'm fortunate enough to only have classes Monday Wednesday and Friday so that I don't develop any addictions to the benzo's. I tried therapy and Lexapro in the past, and found that they both don't work. The therapy might work provided that you give yourself systematic exposure but in my case I have to face some of my worst social fears everyday and the anxiety just simply outweighs the therapy by tenfold. 

My doctor told me to wait about a week before I start taking it because I've been taking 5 htp and l tyrosine but he also wants me to start taking 60mg 4 times a day. I'm planning on starting on 15mg once a day and working my up. I actually had to make a two hour trip from school in order to visit my psychiatrist and request Nardil. He is a great doctor and he was opened about me deciding which med. to go on long term. I found it interesting though, that he kept insisting that I try Selegiline (Emsam patch) instead of Nardil. I told him about the info I read on Nardil, and he told me that I should read about Emsam as well and it's relation to SAD. I didn't find any good info on Emsam helping people with SAD at all. I still don't understand why he would suggest that as the first line of treatment. 

I really hope Nardil works so that I can focus on my academic and social life again. I go out but it just sucks to know I can't function unless I take a Benzo and that a panic attack can easily break out.


----------



## Ronnieboi

Oh! And I forgot to ask. Has anyone tried taking melatonin to fix the insomnia problems? Because melatonin just happens to help me out very well in general.


----------



## crossfadex

I'm wondering about the melatonin too but I think I read you shouldn't really take it with nardil? 

I pretty much got prescribed nardil this morning! I'm weening down off effexor today and my pdoc said to call him when im off of it and he'll call in my prescription for me. 

2 weeks after I would start nardil, there's this thing I am going to and planned on consuming some mdma though. Meh.


----------



## Your dreaming WAKE UP

crossfadex said:


> I'm wondering about the melatonin too but I think I read you shouldn't really take it with nardil?
> 
> I pretty much got prescribed nardil this morning! I'm weening down off effexor today and my pdoc said to call him when im off of it and he'll call in my prescription for me.
> 
> 2 weeks after I would start nardil, there's this thing I am going to and planned on consuming some mdma though. Meh.


wow don't mix mdma with nardil...  bad idea..


----------



## Arguablytheperfectman

Ronnieboi said:


> Oh! And I forgot to ask. Has anyone tried taking melatonin to fix the insomnia problems? Because melatonin just happens to help me out very well in general.


I have heard of people successfully taking it while on nardil. Be careful though, at the start take a smaller dose then you would normally do. Melatonin is already higher in people using MAOI's.


----------



## Chet

*Nardil Ruined my life*

I was on nardil for over 10 years and thought it was the majic cure for me, Until 2 years a go when my wife of 28 years dropped the worst bomb of my life on me asking for a divorce. That was the worst day of my life. Shortly after that I had a nervios break down and lost my job and went into complete depression, I am on disability and taking things day by day, fighting every day to try to find a reason to keep on living.


----------



## crossfadex

Your dreaming WAKE UP said:


> wow don't mix mdma with nardil...  bad idea..


Yeah I know.

Can I start nardil a day after taking mdma. What about nardil and Methylone, I'm assuming that's a huge no too.


----------



## mr t

Hey im back on forum. Ill try to catch up on questions i havent answered yet. Senior year classes are kicking my *** this year, especially biochemistry and cell biology. Ready to graduate, take a year off, then med school. 😓


----------



## mr t

hope4all said:


> hi mr T. im lizzy & suffer social phobia & depression, im starting nardil next monday so so so nervous cause of all the bad stuff people say about it, ive tried most ssris/snris/tcas/ benzo therapy noting works at any dose. i was on nardil last year around xmas for 3 months i swear it was def working, i felt happy & content i felt i wanted to be involved in this world, but i was always nervous of food & alcohol in case i dropped dead. but what really stopped me using this med was the cronic insomina, i was at 45mg per day, do you think the diet is too strict & what dosage would you advise. please give a little advice bad or good i dnt mind, thank you so much:blank


Please dont be nervous!! most of the stuff is WAY over hyped. I would work up to 45 slowly. up 15mg each week until you get to that dose and then stay there since you had success in the past.

I drink beer all the time. pretty much anything except tap beer is ok. You also want to avoid very aged beers, usually foreign because they have higher tyramine content which causes the hypertensive crisis.

Basically i only avoid really aged cheeses like bleu, aged meats, and tap beer.

I eat cheese all the time *BUT* i was very careful at first to sample just a bit when i first tried them on nardil just too make sure. worrying will just cause more anxiety.

Also you can get prescribed an emergency pill (nefipidine) to drop your blood pressure in an event of a hypertensive crisis. you should *DEFINITELY* have a blood pressure cuff on hand to monitor it and tell that your blood pressure if really soring too high. If you take the emergency pill when you dont actually have a hypertensive, you could have some bad consequences.

*ALSO AVOID DECONGESTANTS AND ANY OTHER ANTIDEPRESSANTS/DRUGS *unless you know they are safe to take with it!!

Do those few things and you will do great!!


----------



## mr t

Inshallah said:


> How bad are the sexual side effects, for those that have been on Nardil? Honest answers only please


I had no sexual side effects until i reached 60mg. It was only anorgasmia for me.

Nardil usually doesnt effect libido close to as badly as SSRIs. I never had a problem with libido on nardil, and SSRIs destroyed it.

After i dropped back down to 45mg, where i can have for a long time now, i have no sexual side effects at all.

I've heard that at 60mg the inorgasmia usually goes away after a few months.


----------



## Payn

Hi,

I wonder, How to take properly Nardil ?

My doctor recommended me to take Nardil according to informations in Nardil leaflet :

_Most people start on one 15mg tablet three times a day.
It may take four weeks before you feel the full effect of the tablets. If these tablets are not helping you after you have taken them for about two weeks your doctor may decide to increase the dose to a maximum of one 15mg tablet four times a day. Doses of up to two 15mg tablets three times a day may be used in hospitals. Once the 
tablets are helping your depression, your doctor may slowly lower the dose. This may be as low as one 15mg tablet every other day._

Mr_T recommended this scheme:

_WHEN STARTING NARDIL START AT 15MG AND INCREASE DOSAGE BY 15MG EACH WEEK UNTIL YOU REACH 60MG!!! A HUGE MISTAKE PEOPLE MAKE IS STARTING AT A HIGHER DOSE. YOUR DOCTOR MIGHT WANT YOU TO START HIGHER BUT PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE AND SLOWLY WORK UP YOUR DOSAGE!!! YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO ADJUST!!! THIS IS KEY!!!!_

and finally, a guy named Ashwin (he was also well-read about Nardil), recommended following dosage (paradoxically completely opposite as mr_t wrote ). He recommended to bump up to 75mg after a few days on starting dosage :

_Bump up your dosage to 75 mg. Don't start counting your weeks unless you're at a minimum of 75 mg - No 60mg let alone 45mg or lower.... let me say that again 75mg.
_

So I would like to know, which one of these three above scheme is the best for taking Nardil and why ?

thanks.


----------



## basuraeuropea

^ since this is mr t's thread, i'm sure he's going to advocate his own dosing strategy.


----------



## puppy

A lot of people respond to 60mg, so you should stay there for at least 8 weeks before bumping up to 75. I believe the benefit of titrating slowly up to 60 mg is to reduce side-effects, so if you aren't feeling any side-effects you might be able to get there a little quicker.


----------



## viper1431

I just go by pfiezers instructions since they are the ones that spent millions testing the stuff on patients.

_Initial dose​_: The usual starting dose of NARDIL is one tablet (15 mg) three times a day.​
_Early phase treatment:​_Dosage should be increased to at least 60 mg per day at a fairly
rapid pace consistent with patient tolerance. It may be necessary to increase dosage up to
90 mg per day to obtain sufficient MAO inhibition. Many patients do not show a clinical
response until treatment at 60 mg has been continued for at least 4 weeks.​
_Maintenance dose:​_After maximum benefit from NARDIL is achieved, dosage should be
reduced slowly over several weeks. Maintenance dose may be as low as one tablet, 15​
mg, a day or every other day, and should be continued for as long as is required.

Has always worked for me.


----------



## Arguablytheperfectman

Mr t, have you had any cognitive or memory issues with nardil? I'm curious how the GABA vs dopamine effect plays out in that aspect.


----------



## mr t

Payn said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wonder, How to take properly Nardil ?
> 
> My doctor recommended me to take Nardil according to informations in Nardil leaflet :
> 
> _Most people start on one 15mg tablet three times a day.
> It may take four weeks before you feel the full effect of the tablets. If these tablets are not helping you after you have taken them for about two weeks your doctor may decide to increase the dose to a maximum of one 15mg tablet four times a day. Doses of up to two 15mg tablets three times a day may be used in hospitals. Once the
> tablets are helping your depression, your doctor may slowly lower the dose. This may be as low as one 15mg tablet every other day._
> 
> Mr_T recommended this scheme:
> 
> _WHEN STARTING NARDIL START AT 15MG AND INCREASE DOSAGE BY 15MG EACH WEEK UNTIL YOU REACH 60MG!!! A HUGE MISTAKE PEOPLE MAKE IS STARTING AT A HIGHER DOSE. YOUR DOCTOR MIGHT WANT YOU TO START HIGHER BUT PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE AND SLOWLY WORK UP YOUR DOSAGE!!! YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO ADJUST!!! THIS IS KEY!!!!_
> 
> and finally, a guy named Ashwin (he was also well-read about Nardil), recommended following dosage (paradoxically completely opposite as mr_t wrote ). He recommended to bump up to 75mg after a few days on starting dosage :
> 
> _Bump up your dosage to 75 mg. Don't start counting your weeks unless you're at a minimum of 75 mg - No 60mg let alone 45mg or lower.... let me say that again 75mg.
> _
> 
> So I would like to know, which one of these three above scheme is the best for taking Nardil and why ?
> 
> thanks.


I advocate slowly working up dosage for a few weeks the way my doctor recommended. MAOIs are pretty powerful drugs and make a big difference in your neurochemistry. By working up slowly and adding 15mg per week till you hit 60mg, it hopefully lowers the chance of side effects and gives your brain more time to adjust. I'm completely *free of SA and depression now* and I've *never gone over 60mg*. I was not on 60mg for too long and have been at 45mg for a long time now. Take the minimum dose that gives you the benefits you need- this should always be the case with any drug.

I know *pfizer labeling* says to start at 60mg but that causes many people to have terrible side effects. My doctor said he wishes that their dosage instruction was not that way bc* many people start at a high dose like that, cant handle initial side effects and come off of the drug.*

Theres *no harm* in taking a couple weeks to work up to the dose you need. It could end up making a big difference in side effects for your and give your body valuable time to adjust to this medication. If going up slowly doesnt do these things, no loss.

I would advocate starting at 15mg for a few days or up to a week. Then after that add 15mg each week until 60mg and stay at that dose. *Different people will respond to different doses*. You might only need say 45mg-60mg, while others need 75mg. Take your time upping your dose and see what works for you!

I would *not* recommend going up to 75mg unless a lower dosage is not working. Once again, the lowest dose that works is what to aim for.

I'm at 45mg and do not plan on going up again because its working perfectly for me. When i was at 60mg the true benefits starting building. Once i felt i was feeling great i dropped my dose down to get rid of anorgasmia and insomnia. Those side effects did go away and it *turns out 45mg is all i need now!*


----------



## mr t

Arguablytheperfectman said:


> Mr t, have you had any cognitive or memory issues with nardil? I'm curious how the GABA vs dopamine effect plays out in that aspect.


No, I have no cognitive or memory issues at all compared to when i started nardil.

I believe those things are actually better because my depression has been lifted and i dont deal with anxiety from SA anymore.

GABA is the main inhibitory NT in the brain and is boosted through a seperate mechanism-GABA is not broken down by MAO, but by another enzyme that Nardil uniquely lowers activity. BUT norepinephrine, dopamine, and other stimulatory NT are not broken down because of the MAOI activity.

So there are plenty of stimulatory NTs raised while taking nardil also so cognitive problems are not a huge issue for me.

Just having depression and SA removed makes you so much sharper.

Hope that answers your question!!


----------



## Arguablytheperfectman

Yep! Thanks


----------



## gilmourr

Hey Mr.T I'm trying to get Nardil to work again (on the 14th day, it's not doing that well so far). I've been only taking B6, but now I'm going to take B12 as well. And probably vitamin D

What are your doses for B vitamins? Right now I'm taking 75 mg of B6 and 1500 mcg of B12 (starting today)


----------



## scaredtolive

*strenous exercise*

Mr. T

Got my script for Nardil today. I'm doing 30mg for 2 weekks then upping to 60 mg after before my next appointment. Anyway on my instructions it says to avoid strenous exercise while on this medication. Is this overblown or what do you advise? I'm an avid tennis player and curious about athletic activity


----------



## ilem

Regarding the dietary restrictions, my diet currently consists mostly of frozen food such as pizza, milk, bread and so on. Would such a diet pose a threat while on Nardil? I'm especially wondering about pizza and pepperoni in general (from major retailers) as there's loads of conflicting reports regarding whether it's safe to eat it or not.


----------



## ilem

Also, have you tried peanut butter and whey protein supplements while on nardil?


----------



## gilmourr

ilem said:


> Regarding the dietary restrictions, my diet currently consists mostly of frozen food such as pizza, milk, bread and so on. Would such a diet pose a threat while on Nardil? I'm especially wondering about pizza and pepperoni in general (from major retailers) as there's loads of conflicting reports regarding whether it's safe to eat it or not.


I've noticed that when it works, I was able to eat anything or drink anything and it made no difference. I think people are just paranoid of what they consume until it works, including myself. It's hard waiting for **** to happen, but the last two times it has. Cmon 3.


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Hey Mr.T I'm trying to get Nardil to work again (on the 14th day, it's not doing that well so far). I've been only taking B6, but now I'm going to take B12 as well. And probably vitamin D
> 
> What are your doses for B vitamins? Right now I'm taking 75 mg of B6 and 1500 mcg of B12 (starting today)


I would just play around with the B vitamin dosages. I kept them real high for a while and then layed off because i switched to a good multivitamin instead of taking the B complex.

Those seem kind of high. Theres not really much need to go over 25mg b6 and really high for b12.

A good multivitamin should have what you need. If you feel better at the high b vitamin levels go for it. I took alot of B vitamins when i first started because of the interactions of b6 and nardil i had read about.

Play around with different amounts and see if it make a difference for u!!

I would *DEFINITELY* advocate adding vitamin D to daily regimine for ANYONE having mood related problems. take 2000iu daily!!


----------



## mr t

ilem said:


> Regarding the dietary restrictions, my diet currently consists mostly of frozen food such as pizza, milk, bread and so on. Would such a diet pose a threat while on Nardil? I'm especially wondering about pizza and pepperoni in general (from major retailers) as there's loads of conflicting reports regarding whether it's safe to eat it or not.


No you should be totally fine with all of that. The only pepperoni you would have to worry about is REAL pepperoni that is aged and sold at meat counters in a grocery etc...

All the major retailors like dominos, frozen pizzas, those are all perfectly fine!!

I do take protein powder supplements, never had a problems with them!!

Peanut butter.. hmm i dont eat much peanut butter, ill have to look into that.


----------



## mr t

scaredtolive said:


> Mr. T
> 
> Got my script for Nardil today. I'm doing 30mg for 2 weekks then upping to 60 mg after before my next appointment. Anyway on my instructions it says to avoid strenous exercise while on this medication. Is this overblown or what do you advise? I'm an avid tennis player and curious about athletic activity


Hm i might advocate going up on dose slower but if ur set on that i hope it works!!

No that strenuous exercise stuff is nonsense, dont worry about that at all.

Totally overblown!!!


----------



## scaredtolive

mr t said:


> Hm i might advocate going up on dose slower but if ur set on that i hope it works!!
> 
> No that strenuous exercise stuff is nonsense, dont worry about that at all.
> 
> Totally overblown!!!


Thanks I'm going to take her up to 45 instead of 60 like you and gilmour advise I'm starting to feel the depression lift 1 week in. Not sure if its placebo effect or possibly just hypomania. I think it must be too soon for it not to be.


----------



## gilmourr

scaredtolive said:


> Thanks I'm going to take her up to 45 instead of 60 like you and gilmour advise I'm starting to feel the depression lift 1 week in. Not sure if its placebo effect or possibly just hypomania. I think it must be too soon for it not to be.


Depression CAN lift in 5 days. It happens with me EVERYTIME. Well I mean the MAJOR DEPRESSION. Then I'm left in moderate zone until 30 days in.
But it's a GREAT feeling to be out of major and not be on a couch 24/7!

Probably because it reaches a steady state in 55 hours, and I believe MAO inhibition happens very quickly as opposed to MAO regeneration (that takes 2-3 weeks). Which is why it pays to take it slow then go fast! Because pulling back the dose takes much longer to normalize. Sometimes it doesn't (like me, I waited 30 days at a lower dose, didn't normalize)


----------



## scaredtolive

gilmourr said:


> Depression CAN lift in 5 days. It happens with me EVERYTIME. Well I mean the MAJOR DEPRESSION. Then I'm left in moderate zone until 30 days in.
> But it's a GREAT feeling to be out of major and not be on a couch 24/7!
> 
> Probably because it reaches a steady state in 55 hours, and I believe MAO inhibition happens very quickly as opposed to MAO regeneration (that takes 2-3 weeks). Which is why it pays to take it slow then go fast! Because pulling back the dose takes much longer to normalize. Sometimes it doesn't (like me, I waited 30 days at a lower dose, didn't normalize)


Gilmourr 1 week in and no sexual side effects thus far. This has never happened on any previous anti-depressent including wellbutrin. Should I expect trouble at 45. Usually my friend is completely useless like 2 days into drug treatment. I'm amazed thus far


----------



## viper1431

Takes about 4-6 weeks for the sexual side effetcs to kick in for me on nardil, ssri's are instant usually.


----------



## gilmourr

scaredtolive said:


> Gilmourr 1 week in and no sexual side effects thus far. This has never happened on any previous anti-depressent including wellbutrin. Should I expect trouble at 45. Usually my friend is completely useless like 2 days into drug treatment. I'm amazed thus far


Shouldn't have any trouble getting it up, shouldn't have that much trouble with libido or shooting at 45 either. Usually at 60 mg it kicks in with that side effect. But you may be different. Regardless, it won't show up for like 2 weeks I believe.


----------



## gilmourr

Hey Mr.T, what vitamin are you EXACTLY taking as a B complex?

I believe I seriously need B6 and other B vitamins. I drink alcohol, coffee and nardil and nardil alone usually depletes B6 by 60%. Since I stopped my vitamins I'm getting shivers 24/7.

I can't use 100 mg, and I don't think I can use 50 mg either. I'm not sure if it's the dose or the coating of my tablets. Would 10-25 or 50 mg be enough? 

Going to restart taking B12 if the nausea doesn't come back being on B6.


----------



## scaredtolive

viper1431 said:


> Takes about 4-6 weeks for the sexual side effetcs to kick in for me on nardil, ssri's are instant usually.


:sigh where's the dislike button...no thanks for the info


----------



## viper1431

Sorry 
There are usually ways to fix it though unlike ssri's. I stop it for about a week and then restart and usually the sexual side effects go away without any positive effects going. Good ting about nardil is it keeps working for a while after you stop it because the effect isn't reliant on the drug being in your system unlike most other AD's like ssri's.


----------



## gilmourr

viper1431 said:


> Sorry
> There are usually ways to fix it though unlike ssri's. I stop it for about a week and then restart and usually the sexual side effects go away without any positive effects going. Good ting about nardil is it keeps working for a while after you stop it because the effect isn't reliant on the drug being in your system unlike most other AD's like ssri's.


I thought you're on 75 or 90 mg? If so, that's 100% the reason why and you won't have to worry scaredtolive


----------



## viper1431

Only when starting off. I can't stay that high or i get severe orthostatic hypotension. I start on 60 a day but with 90 every 3 days or so, when it kicks in i then lower it to 15-30 for maintenece dose, whatever i can get away with without my BP continuing to fall.


----------



## gilmourr

Mind saying that again? I'm a bit confused by your dosing. I never understood the point of front loading a MAOI because MAO regeneration is slow. I can understand it for a TCA or a SSRI, but not for a MAOI, UNLESS you stay that high or very close to that level


----------



## viper1431

Well when i start i take 60mg a day.. but every few days i will take 90mg instead. So like 60mg on monday tuesday and wednesday, then 90 on thursday and maybe friday if i feel ok, then back to 60 again for a few days etc. If i don't do that then it never kicks in for me. Once my blood pressure drops to around 100/80 (my normal BP is 150/100) i then go to 15-30mg a day for maintenence. It took me a couple years to work out how to get it working right for me without problems and that's what ended up working 

For maintenence i go by my BP.. any lower than 100/80 and i become weak and tired which doesn't help my energy problems.. 100/80 seems to be my sweet spot where i have heaps of energy and am able to talk a lot easier.

The objective at the start is to wipe out most of the MAO so may as well hit it with a big dose to get rid of it, i'm too impatient to do it slowly


----------



## scaredtolive

viper1431 said:


> Sorry
> There are usually ways to fix it though unlike ssri's. I stop it for about a week and then restart and usually the sexual side effects go away without any positive effects going. Good ting about nardil is it keeps working for a while after you stop it because the effect isn't reliant on the drug being in your system unlike most other AD's like ssri's.


Well I'll see what happens at 45. I have myself on a nightly masturbation regimen I'm at the age where I really dont care much for it. Just checking to make sure things are in order. So far so good


----------



## Jawi96

How do you take the 15 mgs at the start? like 15 3x a day? or 15 in the morning? or 5x a day? whatever. also, how do you deal with tolerance? can you take anything along side it to help prevent tolerance (im gonna take it with bioperine)? and if you do to stop to reset your tolerance, whats a good temporary switch. OH YEA, and how long should you stop if you need to aswell. that is all.


----------



## viper1431

I take all my dose at night before bed. I've never had a problem with tolerance, i only stop it until any annoying side effects go away, usually a few days to a week.


----------



## mr t

gilmourr said:


> Hey Mr.T, what vitamin are you EXACTLY taking as a B complex?
> 
> I believe I seriously need B6 and other B vitamins. I drink alcohol, coffee and nardil and nardil alone usually depletes B6 by 60%. Since I stopped my vitamins I'm getting shivers 24/7.
> 
> I can't use 100 mg, and I don't think I can use 50 mg either. I'm not sure if it's the dose or the coating of my tablets. Would 10-25 or 50 mg be enough?
> 
> Going to restart taking B12 if the nausea doesn't come back being on B6.


B complex contains all the B vitamins: b1-12

Taking 10mg of b6 should be fine, dont over do it. Make sure you take other vitamins too because multiple vitamins could work in different reactions in the same metabolic/catabolic pathway


----------



## mr t

Jawi96 said:


> How do you take the 15 mgs at the start? like 15 3x a day? or 15 in the morning? or 5x a day? whatever. also, how do you deal with tolerance? can you take anything along side it to help prevent tolerance (im gonna take it with bioperine)? and if you do to stop to reset your tolerance, whats a good temporary switch. OH YEA, and how long should you stop if you need to aswell. that is all.


start 15mg x1 a day for a week, then 15mg x2 for a week, then 15mg 3x day for 1-2 weeks, then 30mg 2x a day and stay at that dose of 60mg.

No you dont need to take anything for tolerance.


----------



## Clint1988

Okay I have been on 0.5mg of klonopin for SA and it has seem to help my SA but it is kind of subtle and hard to tell if its working at times. I do feel more relaxed and not as anxious but its hard to tell how much its helping really. I've also started Paxil for major depression and only been on it for 4 days. I've not noticed much change and it actually made me feel like crap this morning and made me wanna sleep all day until I popped a klonopin and then felt quite good!

My question is......can I take nardil for major depression instead of paxil and also take klonopin at the same time and be ok or is that to much? I just recently started these meds and actually felt some kind of peace of mind from klonopin. But if nardil is really as affective as everyone is saying id like to try it.


----------



## Mike111

*Does anyone taking combination of Nardil + Lyrica(pregabalin), possibly with Provigil-modafinil ? Do you have any experiences regarding this combo ? *

I take 60mg Nardil splitted in two doses (morning and afternoon) with 150mg of Lyrica ( at night).
Recently I also added modafinil (trade name is the Vigil- German formula of modafinill) due to bad fatigue and tiredness from this combo.

I need some advice for dosage recommendation and other questions regarding this combo and there is not too much info around


----------



## puppy

Clint1988 said:


> Okay I have been on 0.5mg of klonopin for SA and it has seem to help my SA but it is kind of subtle and hard to tell if its working at times. I do feel more relaxed and not as anxious but its hard to tell how much its helping really. I've also started Paxil for major depression and only been on it for 4 days. I've not noticed much change and it actually made me feel like crap this morning and made me wanna sleep all day until I popped a klonopin and then felt quite good!
> 
> My question is......can I take nardil for major depression instead of paxil and also take klonopin at the same time and be ok or is that to much? I just recently started these meds and actually felt some kind of peace of mind from klonopin. But if nardil is really as affective as everyone is saying id like to try it.


Yes you can, but SSRIs can take months to start working for anxiety. I wouldn't give up on the Paxil yet unless you've already tried a couple SSRIs for a substantial amount of time. Nardil side-effects are really disabling and it still takes a couple months to really start working.


----------



## Clint1988

Well I have tried, Prozac, Viibrid, Selectsa/citopram and I think one called dalantern or something. None seem to help.


----------



## Mike111

Does anyone know what is with Mr.T ? I cant get answer from him...


----------



## ilem

Is Nardil safe to take with anti diarrhea meds? I can't find any info on it.


----------



## zendog78

Yeah, no interaction there


----------



## zendog78

ilem said:


> Regarding the dietary restrictions, my diet currently consists mostly of frozen food such as pizza, milk, bread and so on. Would such a diet pose a threat while on Nardil? I'm especially wondering about pizza and pepperoni in general (from major retailers) as there's loads of conflicting reports regarding whether it's safe to eat it or not.


I have gone on red wine benders while eating cheese platters, never ever had a problem with hypertension with nardil - even dexamophetamine produced hypotension - go figure.

I drink huge amounts of coffee, constantly chew nicotine gum (which somehow boosts the nardil)

Only time something happened was when I experimented with a small amount of meth - Dont do it - not smart.

What has helped me limit the side effects with Nardil.

(1) Avoid Dairy and pastry type dishs. Definetly make bloating worse as does diet drinks like pepsi max.
(2) Go to the Gym - Do a small amount of cardio as a warm up but focus your efforts on weight training, in particular - circuit weight training.
Circuit weight training keeps you heart rate up and gives the weight training a cardio componant and really helps to burn off fat. 
Putting on muscle will not only use up some of the extra food you consume due to nardil increasing your appatite, putting on extra muscle will improve your posture, general appearence and the extra muscle increases your BMR so you burn more energy even while sitting around, something cardio doesnt do for you, in fact too much cardio will reduce your muscle mass and lower your BMR
(3) Eat enough - not enough food makes your BMR drop encouraging your body to burn less energy and store fat. It is the biggest mistake all dieters make
(4) Dont eat **** - I mean it, you just have to accept that if your eating processed calorie dense food like chocolate, soft drinks, breakfast cerials, potato chips and general junk - your going to put on weight. When I grocery shop I NEVER buy junk - EVER! If its in the house I know I will eat it. If I desperetly want something sweet I have to walk to the corner store, its enough to slow me down so I dont lapse too often.
But lots of fruit - it helps to get you through the periods between meals.
(5) Do some exercise every day - If you cant face the gym, just a walk will do.

I still have a belly and I am still 10kg over weight but it keeps it under control.

Because I have big muscles it improves my confidence and and takes the focus off my belly.
This applies just as much to girls. Girls dont get seriously muscley with weight training - they do get a lot stronger though. Dont be scared of looking butch, if you look in the mirror one day and dont like the size of your muscles, it only takes a couple of weeks to shrink down. But it wont happen, trust me


----------



## 029

Thank you all and especially mr. t. for this thread. After reading it and gathering some more info I think I'm going to try this med to fight my SA. I'll search through Pubmed first to see if I can find some research on the effects of long term use.


----------



## Better

Interesting thread and thanks to the op and other forum members, I am going to look into that med for my social anxiety as well. Having said that a maoi from way back when is hardly some holly grail, it's great it's worked for some people but had it been more effective I am sure it would have been first line and not third-fourth. All in all what I am interested in my next med regiment is how the pill will effect the long term functioning of my brain, that is what are the long term chemical and structural changes to the brain AFTER I have been using it for some time. Does it set my brain up for success, is it neutral, or does it set it up for failure (as with benzos). Is there any research for nadril on how people function after they stop using it, are their symptoms better off than before they started it? That's of vital importance to me, yet in almost all psychiatric meds there's hardly any research done on that from what I can gather.


----------



## yourfavestoner

How many of you Nardilites had urinary retention?

Really hoping I don't suffer that side-effect


----------



## puppy

Took a little longer to work up a flow, but it really wasn't that bad. Other side effects were way more annoying. Thankfully I am now side-effect free at 6 months in.


----------



## viper1431

Yeah i did at higher doses, however it was worse on tricyclics like imipramine.
Was not really much of a bother though, it simply means an extra few seconds waiting, it doesn't stop you from being able to pee.


----------



## gilmourr

puppy said:


> Took a little longer to work up a flow, but it really wasn't that bad. Other side effects were way more annoying. Thankfully I am now side-effect free at 6 months in.


Your urinary retention went away??? Interesting. I wonder if mine would've ever gone away. Longest I've ever been on Nardil was 10 weeks and it was still there.

I usually don't get urinary retention at 45 mg or below. 60 mg + always creates problems for me


----------



## puppy

gilmourr said:


> Your urinary retention went away??? Interesting. I wonder if mine would've ever gone away. Longest I've ever been on Nardil was 10 weeks and it was still there.
> 
> I usually don't get urinary retention at 45 mg or below. 60 mg + always creates problems for me


My Nardil was barely even working at 10 weeks, but I still had some nasty side effects like near-constant shaking, twitching and constipation. I've felt pretty consistently great since I started CBT a little over a month ago, and I'm hoping I stay that way.


----------



## meedo

puppy said:


> My Nardil was barely even working at 10 weeks, but I still had some nasty side effects like near-constant shaking, twitching and constipation. I've felt pretty consistently great since I started CBT a little over a month ago, and I'm hoping I stay that way.


Hello Puppy,

How would you compare Nardil to other antidepressants ? was it worth it ? .. why did you start CBT ? was Nardil not enough?


----------



## viper1431

Nardil would never kick in for me by 10 weeks if only taking 45mg.. even 60 would be pushing it to work in 10 weeks.
And yeah you get the crappy side effects in that time but when it kicks in it's like a switch being flicked and your brain kicks into gear.. it's amazing how it does it.. then you can lower the dose to maintenence and the side effects ease away.


----------



## puppy

Hello Meedo,

No antidepressant other than Nardil has ever helped my dysthimia and anxiety. Mirtazapine got me out of a major depressive episode and back to my regular dysthimic self. Straterra helped motivate me, but made my anxiety worse to the point of throwing up in certain social situations. SSRIs decreased avoidance but didn't help much with anxiety when in a social situation. I was also doing CBT during some of these, but didn't expect it to work and didn't really take my therapist seriously, so it didn't help much at all.

Nardil alone was better than any other antidepressant I had taken. It made it so I could make a phonecall without getting drunk first and correct fast food cashiers when they screwed up my order, for example, which is huge improvement for me. I could also talk and ask questions in class which I could never do before.

I started CBT because I still had some lingering dysthimia and anxiety, which would get better or worse in cycles. On Nardil I had a much better attitude going into CBT and the Nardil calmed me down enough to observe some of my negative thought patterns in a relaxed way. This is crucial because you need to let the non-logical part of your brain observe your thoughts so you instinctively see what is going on, like you instinctively know a ball will fall when you drop it without needing to think logically about it.

CBT+Nardil has pretty much completely cured me. I still have some anxiety in some situations, but then again, so does a completely normal person. I am extremely happy with the results and the 3 months of side-effects were absolutely worth it. Even with the side-effects I was leading a much fuller life and succeeding in school more than I would have been if I was more sad and anxious. 

Hope that helps!


----------



## gilmourr

puppy said:


> Hello Meedo,
> 
> No antidepressant other than Nardil has ever helped my dysthimia and anxiety. Mirtazapine got me out of a major depressive episode and back to my regular dysthimic self. Straterra helped motivate me, but made my anxiety worse to the point of throwing up in certain social situations. SSRIs decreased avoidance but didn't help much with anxiety when in a social situation. I was also doing CBT during some of these, but didn't expect it to work and didn't really take my therapist seriously, so it didn't help much at all.
> 
> Nardil alone was better than any other antidepressant I had taken. It made it so I could make a phonecall without getting drunk first and correct fast food cashiers when they screwed up my order, for example, which is huge improvement for me. I could also talk and ask questions in class which I could never do before.
> 
> I started CBT because I still had some lingering dysthimia and anxiety, which would get better or worse in cycles. On Nardil I had a much better attitude going into CBT and the Nardil calmed me down enough to observe some of my negative thought patterns in a relaxed way. This is crucial because you need to let the non-logical part of your brain observe your thoughts so you instinctively see what is going on, like you instinctively know a ball will fall when you drop it without needing to think logically about it.
> 
> CBT+Nardil has pretty much completely cured me. I still have some anxiety in some situations, but then again, so does a completely normal person. I am extremely happy with the results and the 3 months of side-effects were absolutely worth it. Even with the side-effects I was leading a much fuller life and succeeding in school more than I would have been if I was more sad and anxious.
> 
> Hope that helps!


I swear, I was exactly like this on my 2nd trial of Nardil, I was on it from July - September and it worked wonderfully but there was a tiny bit of anxiety left and still a sizeable amount of depression.

I really wish I never upped it to 60 mg because it all went to ****. But I'll be back on Nardil if my new combo doesn't work after 3 months. I think my body just needs a break from Nardil, not because it wears out, but because I stopped it and then almost immediately restarted it.

I kind of think of it as like a coffee machine. Once the coffee is done it's good, but then you unplug it for 5-10 minutes and the coffee starts to cool down, but the pot remains pretty hot. When you plug it back in to make the coffee warm again the coffee machine doesn't recognize the coffee is cold because the pot is still hot. Because of this, it doesn't heat the coffee. 
Way to solve the problem? Wait until the coffee pot is cooled down and then restart it. Or just drink ****ty quality coffee.


----------



## EJB

Anyone know of any safe antihistamines that can be used with Nardil?


----------



## puppy

Benadryl and Unisom are both ok, just make sure you buy a preparation without any decongestants.


----------



## pete69

ive been on 45mg for about 3 years now-not sure there doing much for my sa. i take em with clonazepam-that usually is the med that i benefit from rather than nardil.
a few people i know stop taking nardil for 2 weeks then go back on it and they say it kicks in again..also im taking my dose all at once in morning-my shrink said the half life is like 1.5hours so very small and said i should try n spread doseage out-bit hard to do as they have to be in fridge.

im in uk and had to try every drug before he gave me this-so if at first you dont succeed ..argue your corner!! worked great for a few months then not much ..pete


----------



## puppy

Nardil has a short half-life, but the mechanism of action is MAO inhibition which lasts well after the phenelzine itself is out of your system. Personally, I have found Nardil to most effective when taken all in one dose, though it may just be a coincidence that I started dosing that way right as the drug started to be effective.

You might consider going up to 60 mg if you feel that 45 mg is not very effective.


----------



## crossfadex

I'm taking my first dose tomorrow. I'm more worried about some of the side effects than I am about food interactions. I'm hoping for no weight gain or impaired memory function (my long term memory is already not so great).

So I'm curious about Nootropics and Nardil. I'm pretty sure its a safe combination but I'm wondering if anybody had experiences or input to add on the matter.


----------



## viper1431

memory should be ok, there's no anticholoergic activity with nardil which is the main memory killer.


----------



## ILOVEXANAX

I don't think you would have any problems mixing Nardil with Piracetam. It is good for your sig too!


----------



## crossfadex

ILOVEXANAX said:


> I don't think you would have any problems mixing Nardil with Piracetam. It is good for your sig too!


haha I know right xD

So..3 weeks on Nardil thus far. No side effects except its a wee bit harder to finish le "deed" but practically unnoticeable. SSRIs made me apathetic zombie by this point and made it near impossible to finish what you started. I'm liking this drug so far. 2nd dose at 60mg.


----------



## puppy

crossfadex said:


> haha I know right xD
> 
> So..3 weeks on Nardil thus far. No side effects except its a wee bit harder to finish le "deed" but practically unnoticeable. SSRIs made me apathetic zombie by this point and made it near impossible to finish what you started. I'm liking this drug so far. 2nd dose at 60mg.


Get ready. The side effects are a'comin.


----------



## zendog78

I have had some success lately and I thought I would share it.

I have been on and off Nardil for so many years. I am just disabled without it yet it is impossible to live with too. Partially because of the weight gain. I have always been quite skinny, Nardil made my weight balloon out by as much as 17kg ( thats 37lbs for the metric impaired).

most of the weight was carried on my belly and it looked like I was carrying twice as much because of the bloating. I waddled like a fat person,
I looked pregnant (and I am a dude).

I would just eat and eat and eat. I was always hungry. I gained all this weight even while regularly going to the gym and only eating healthy foods. The problem is you just don't notice just abnormal the sheer volume of food you consume is.


So

I made a plan to get off it (again).

I am going to try to cut this short.

I reduced the nardil from 5 per day down to 2 per day and then started agomeletine at .5 of a tablet at night.
After about a week I increased it to 1 whole tablet at night.
I also started Lamictal at 25mg per day (not sure if its doing anything)


It has now been a month...Results?

* I have lost 4Kg! Thats like 9lbs without even going to the gym or purposely restricting my diet!
* Bloating has gone
* Appetite is normal again
* Sexual function is normal
* Constipation has gone
* Mood and anxiety is actually improved

The only negative is that I now have high blood pressure again, the nardil was controlling it.

I have also quit my job and am starting my own business. Being removed from that stress has doubtlessly helped too.

I have been doing this with a good GP. I am over psychiatrists, they have never helped me a bit.

A big boost to how I am feeling came from using a small amount of LSD and Magic Mushrooms a week ago. I always feel astoundingly better for months after I use Psychedelics and they are the only *recreational* drug I will touch these days..and only once a year at that.
I would like to do it regularly but It is just such a commitment to have a day tripping when you have a busy life and you can't just sit in a room, you need to plan it and have the right environment for it.

Anyway, it is early days still but so far so good.

I think people need to get rid of the idea of looking for the magic bullet to fix their SA. It is likely to be a combination of medications and lifestyle change.

You can mix a surprising amount of meds with nardil if your careful. 
I chose agomeletine and lamictal for their benign side effect profile.

Anyway, will update again in a month. Cheers


----------



## viper1431

Anyone had abnormal iron or heloglobin results whilst on nardil ? Mine is usually quite high but normal but recently has made a sudden drop to the point of being too low to donate blood anymore.. just had some tests, don't know the results yet but got a phone call saying they are abnormal and to make an appointment.


----------



## Skitzo

Does nardil help with paranoia?


----------



## viper1431

I wouldn't say it does particularly. And if it's serious paranoia as in a psychotic type then it may make it worse due to the increase in dopamine.
If it's a non psychotic type then it can help, i find myself less worried about what others think.


----------



## zendog78

Still kicking *** on the low dose of nardil with Ago and lamictal.
Lost almost 5kg now!


----------



## zendog78

Seriously? *** is censored? Maybe I just need to write it the Australian way Arse arse arse arse arse!
Lame


----------



## Leeroythedeecoy

so i have been aproved for nardil. not sure how i never heard of it before. i actually haven't even looked into MAOIs much if at all. odd sense all i do is sit infront of this screen researching. stopped all my medication today. cold turkey. was rough there for about 6 hours, but i'm tough like that. so i guess i'm 14 days away right? i wouldn't mind starting sooner if it is safe to do so. i'm going to be requesting the nuvigil and lyrica as well because i like your post about it and i've now done some research into those also. besides how soon is safe to start, i would like to know yours and everyones opinion on what i should carry on me for an emergency. as in my heart is about to explode because someone put aged cheese in my taco emergeny lol. little info on me. i have zero depression. just anxiety and panic attacks for no reason. a bit agoraphobic too.


----------



## viper1431

Depends what's you've stopped. It's 14 days when stopping an MAOI and starting something else. Other way around is usually shorter except sometimes for prozac.


----------



## Leeroythedeecoy

viper1431 said:


> Depends what's you've stopped. It's 14 days when stopping an MAOI and starting something else. Other way around is usually shorter except sometimes for prozac.


I was taking 100mgs of Tofranil, 25 morning , 25 lunch, 50 night, and at the time of quiting i had worked my way down on the Remeron to just 7.5 mgs at night. Its not that bad of a combo but i ended up with a few too many side effects from the Tofranil, so i suggested Nardil to be the next medication as i have already been through all the stuff they like to give you first.


----------



## viper1431

I've swapped form those before, never needed to wait more than a couple days.
Nardil will usually have the same side effects as tofranil but amplified though


----------



## Cascade

Hello. I just started Nardil and I have questions about the diet. I've read the lists (old and new) and feel like I have a pretty good handle on what I can and can not eat and what I can maybe try in small amounts once I've stabilized on the med to see how I react. The biggest unknown for me seems to be eating meat in restaurants. How do you know the meat has been handled and refrigerated properly and not a few too many days old? Is this something people worry about or really isn't it a problem? I'm more curious about this than anything. One issue that I am concerned about is airline food. I travel a lot and often on 10+ hour flights. I'm thinking ordering vegan meals would be the safest option, but even then if I have a reaction at 40,000 feet over the Atlantic Ocean, I am pretty much screwed. Should I just plan on bringing my own food? I also often travel to countries that don't have good food safety standards and I am served food that I don't have a choice in ordering, so I am already going to be hauling a lot of back up food with me.


----------



## gilmourr

Cascade said:


> Hello. I just started Nardil and I have questions about the diet. I've read the lists (old and new) and feel like I have a pretty good handle on what I can and can not eat and what I can maybe try in small amounts once I've stabilized on the med to see how I react. The biggest unknown for me seems to be eating meat in restaurants. How do you know the meat has been handled and refrigerated properly and not a few too many days old? Is this something people worry about or really isn't it a problem? I'm more curious about this than anything. One issue that I am concerned about is airline food. I travel a lot and often on 10+ hour flights. I'm thinking ordering vegan meals would be the safest option, but even then if I have a reaction at 40,000 feet over the Atlantic Ocean, I am pretty much screwed. Should I just plan on bringing my own food? I also often travel to countries that don't have good food safety standards and I am served food that I don't have a choice in ordering, so I am already going to be hauling a lot of back up food with me.


You won't have a reaction on a flight, they're not going to serve you gourmet meat that has enough tyramine to set off a hypertensive reaction.

Honestly, I've tried everything and nothing gave me a reaction, though I'd still say steer away from blue cheese, sauerkraut, really gourmet cheeses and other things you know that will be quite bad like cough syrup (serotonin).

Really, you're just in the honeymoon phase of Nardil. You'll be less obsessive as a month goes by. Have fun, nardil rocks.


----------



## mr t

Hey everyone,

Sorry I have not been available to answer questions. Life has been very busy for me and I never get on the web now unless its for school work.

I will try get on these forums more often to answer questions!

-mr t


----------



## meedo

mr t said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Sorry I have not been available to answer questions. Life has been very busy for me and I never get on the web now unless its for school work.
> 
> I will try get on these forums more often to answer questions!
> 
> -mr t


haha i can't believe my eyes.. the Nardil champ is back !!  :clap


----------



## Skitzo

So i got some today and on the box is a sticker saying refrigerate to keep in thwe fridge even the pharmacist said to keep in the fridge whats the deal with that? i asked him if i could just keep it in cool dark place he said thats what it says on the box lol so i said oh ok lol. Any ideas?


----------



## puppy

My bottles have never said that, and I don't refrigerate mine, for what its worth. I think as long as you use it all in a month you should be fine just keeping it in a cool, dry, dark place (i.e. not a steamy bathroom).


----------



## kesker

prescribed Nardil 10 days ago. still haven't filled it. i can't get a good read on it. it seems like it has the potential to be a nightmare....but that's probably my med-phobia rearing its ugly head.....:sus


----------



## Leeroythedeecoy

just got mine filled. been on it for 5 days now. can't wait for the awesomeness to kick in : ) i did so much research on this stuff, and when it comes down to it, its not even a bad medication. the food restrictions are the only possible cause for concern, and not at all hard to follow. so yeah, don't get stupid with it and you have nothing to worry about. i got my medic alert braclet, all my meals planned, and now i play the waiting game. which i am very good at : )


----------



## meedo

Leeroythedeecoy said:


> just got mine filled. been on it for 5 days now. can't wait for the awesomeness to kick in : ) i did so much research on this stuff, and when it comes down to it, its not even a bad medication. the food restrictions are the only possible cause for concern, and not at all hard to follow. so yeah, don't get stupid with it and you have nothing to worry about. i got my medic alert braclet, all my meals planned, and now i play the waiting game. which i am very good at : )


That is awesome dude... tell us how it goes


----------



## crossfadex

I've been on it for a little of 7 weeks. I've been on 60mg for a little over 3 weeks. I still don't feel anything. I had quite a mood lift for several days but I think its just the mania as a side effect, I felt pretty good just in general. I still can't talk to girls at all and still feel the anhedonia and a "whats the point" attitude.

*Does it need more time to kick in?* I don't feel anything yet
*Does Nardil effectively fight anhedonia?*
The side effects are getting crappy, especially the noticeable weight gain/bloating in my gut. Before, I had abs and now I'm getting an ugly pot belly.* Does this side effect subside and if not, does a lower dose - say 45mg - minimize the weight gain/bloating?* I really _hate_ this side effect. I've never had any weight gain issues or such bad sexual issues on any other med! I used to be able to eat anything I wanted and not gain weight but Nardil is obviously messing with my metabolism.


----------



## mr t

Lowering your dosage down back to 45mg, staying there for a week or so until the sexual side effects go away and then upping back to 60mg might do the trick.

I know it doesnt make much logical sense but this trick of lowering dosage and then going back up has worked for me and several others who have used nardil.

As for the bloating I would suggest taking a quality multivitamin and B complex in the morning or afternoon and drink plenty of water throughout the day. Obviously exercising will help increase metabolism also.

If weight gain continues you could ask your doctor about metformin. I've taking it before for unwanted weight gain due to a medication in the past and its pretty effective.


----------



## crossfadex

Bloating/Weight gain, as well as sexual side effects, seemed nonexistent until I started taking 60mg. I know about the dosage decrease thing but will that decrease the weight gain as well? I thought I was supposed to stay at 60mg until the I feel the nardil start working? I'm kinda losing hope, nothing but crappy side effects. Should Nardil effectively fight anhedonia, feeling more pleasure out of life/socializing?

At least I haven't gotten the common constipation problems, hypotension or insomnia. In fact, I've been able to fall asleep fast..like..crazy fast. I'll probably be asleep in the next 5 minutes, no joke lol. My eyes are heavy. I usually fall asleep before I even have time to get ready for bed.

But..I just..can't stand this bloating!


----------



## mr t

I know it sucks to hear, but I would say give the 60mg 2-3 more weeks.

I saw that you've been on nardil a total of 7 weeks but I didnt really start to get benefits until i was up to 60mg. I would stay at 60mg for these few weeks and then make a decision on what to do next. I wouldnt change the dosage to 45mg to get rid of side effects and possibly prolong the process of the nardil kicking in.

Try and do one thing at time. It saves alot of aggravation in the end.

Also after a few more weeks if its not helping you, maybe think about adding nuvigil. I take 75mg/ day and its a great dopamine boost. Gives me better energy, motivation to socialize and experience pleasure. 1 thing a time tho bud!!


----------



## boostinggtir

Yea, game time will start at 65mg.. Don't lower the dosage. Sexual sides happen to 100% of male individuals and fade with time only. I recall I could just not get off.:clap Comes right eventually (no pun) The sleep issue will come soon. I know what stage you are at now... You still have a wile to go my friend. This drug is a roller coaster. I came off it over a year ago thinking I was cured. I was not. Now I'll need to start the process again. I currently taker around 40-80mg of parnate. My sex drive is ****, an only ever will be on this drug. Nardil is far more suited, an I was truly content, just start up sides far from ideal.


----------



## puppy

Wow, threads like this remind me never to come off Nardil.

crossfadex, I didn't get full benefits til 3 whole months on 75 mg, so it can take A LOT of time to start working. I'd wait til you're at 2 months on 60 mg then increase to 75 mg if you're still not feeling better. Also, talking to girls will take practice even once your Nardil starts working. Nardil will give you the ability to learn, but even regular boys need to push their comfort zone to get comfortable talking to attractive females


----------



## ILOVEXANAX

does nardil make anyone else fall asleep?


----------



## viper1431

When starting out it does but eventually the insomnia beats any drowsiness. Until the afternoons, afternoon drowsiness can be common with nardil, but no one can work out why it only happens in the afternoon


----------



## crossfadex

I haven't gotten insomnia. I get more of a calming drowsy sensation though. I fall asleep quicker now than when I was not on Nardil - I crawl into bed and immediately am overwhelmingly drowsy. I also seem to want afternoon naps all too often.


----------



## viper1431

If you dont' have insomnia then you arn't taking enough 
Try 90mg for a couple weeks.. if you are lucky enough to have the same result i do then you won't ever be sleepy even after missing a couple days of sleep and you won't want to eat.. but be careful cause after losing 15 kilos i ended up being very iron deficient so have to have injections now for a couple weeks. I've dropped the dose so i'm starting to eat again.


----------



## Mike111

[FONT=&quot]I have been taking 75mg for about 3 weeks now, after I was 12 weeks on 60mg dose. I still suffer from daytime tiredness, low energy and fatigue, and also sometimes when I wake up I feel quite dizzy(which could be related with low blood pressure). I have read somewhere, that for daytime fatigue on Nardil is the best to take full dose some time before going to bed. I wonder if anyone have any success with this trick ?

If it is really working, then could someone tell me exact procedure how and when exactly to take my 75 dose - vanish fatigue ?

Now, I take 30mg morning, 30 about 3pm, and 15 around 6-7pm.

Thanks 
[/FONT]


----------



## puppy

Try taking it all before you go to bed, it definitely helps. After a few months on 75 your fatigue should go away and you dose however you want.


----------



## viper1431

yup i take it all at bed time.


----------



## britisharrow

I can also report that Nardil has worked for me. Not as a cureall but it has had a noticable affect. I'd be happy to take any questions too as I've been on it a while.


----------



## boostinggtir

britisharrow said:


> I can also report that Nardil has worked for me. Not as a cureall but it has had a noticable affect. I'd be happy to take any questions too as I've been on it a while.


What beneifits have you found? and what lackings? how long have you been on? an what dose are you one currently? Also sleep? sleep meds?

Nardil + GH peptides broke a 8 year depression for me. Was stupid to come off. Thought I was cured, went on parnate. It's not the one unfortunately. (for me) Now I have to rough out the 3 month activation of Nardil again.:blank


----------



## britisharrow

boostinggtir said:


> What beneifits have you found? and what lackings? how long have you been on? an what dose are you one currently? Also sleep? sleep meds?
> 
> Nardil + GH peptides broke a 8 year depression for me. Was stupid to come off. Thought I was cured, went on parnate. It's not the one unfortunately. (for me) Now I have to rough out the 3 month activation of Nardil again.:blank


Hi there. 5 x 15mg a day Nardil. The benefits are I can now go out and do basic stuff like shop for groceries. I can make phone calls.

This may not sound much but beforehand it was taking me a shot of whisky just to make a quick phone call or take out the garbage.

So it depends on one's own situation, if you're in a better place than that, then it'll help you from that place.

I've found Nardil makes my mind think less judgementally about how people might be viewing me, and to take a more rounded view of opinions and people looking at me.

As for sleep, I've had no problems in that area.


----------



## pete69

mr t is nuvigil available in ul do you know? is there another name for it..


----------



## mr t

pete69 said:


> mr t is nuvigil available in ul do you know? is there another name for it..


I'm not sure if nuvigil (armodafinil) is available in the UK.

However, it looks like provigil (modafinil) is available in the UK.

Basically the same drug, armodafinil is pure R-isomer of modafinil. So modafinil contains both R and L-isomers.


----------



## smartgig

Are you SA free if you stop taking Nardil ??


----------



## Skitzo

only been taking Nardil for 19 days but has anyone noticed increase in sex drive? Also at night I take it with melatonin and wake up sort of groggy but im ok. Also it's made ma a little nutty, maybe a bit cocky is the better used word. anyone else found this? But I have found it has helped with anxiety slightly but only been on for 19 days so i will continue


----------



## shy198

How much B6 is too much?

I currently take: 
now adam multi-vitamin in the morning
75mg nardil all at once at 8pm
50mg lyrica before bed at 12.

I find that taking the nardil all at once in the evening helps with daytime fatigue

1 now adam multi-vitamin contains
12.5mg Vitamin B-6 (From Pyridoxine HCl And Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P-5-P))

----------------------

Also I have another question.

Does anybody know of an official web page that states the 1 mg/kg (1 mg/2.2 lbs) dosage guideline?

I'm trying to convince my psychiatrist that it's time to move up to 90mg. 
He doesn't have very much knowledge of nardil dosages and wants me to stay at 75mg or quit and try a different drug.

I weigh 205lbs and i've had minimal side effects taking 75mg, it seems like the right time to move up.
It's been 2 months on 75mg and I don't feel any relief from social anxiety.
I've been taking pfizer nardil for 6 months. From 30mg, 45mg, 60mg to 75mg.

I have severe social anxiety and I really want to give nardil a full chance by taking it at 90mg.
Nardil is my last hope. I've taken so many different medications over the last 10 years, I don't even know what there is left to try if this doesn't work.

Any help is appreciated.


----------



## boostinggtir

Woops..


----------



## Skitzo

Does any1 else get more horny now there on nardil


----------



## boostinggtir

Yea I'd try the 90mg for sure. I pushed my to 90mg (did the trick, bad sides. was able to cut down and maintain monoamine oxidase inhibition at a lower dose, though yes it was nessary to go to 90mg with the bad sides. The not having sleep issues is suspect to me.


----------



## mr t

shy198 said:


> How much B6 is too much?
> 
> I currently take:
> now adam multi-vitamin in the morning
> 75mg nardil all at once at 8pm
> 50mg lyrica before bed at 12.
> 
> I find that taking the nardil all at once in the evening helps with daytime fatigue
> 
> 1 now adam multi-vitamin contains
> 12.5mg Vitamin B-6 (From Pyridoxine HCl And Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P-5-P))
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> Also I have another question.
> 
> Does anybody know of an official web page that states the 1 mg/kg (1 mg/2.2 lbs) dosage guideline?
> 
> I'm trying to convince my psychiatrist that it's time to move up to 90mg.
> He doesn't have very much knowledge of nardil dosages and wants me to stay at 75mg or quit and try a different drug.
> 
> I weigh 205lbs and i've had minimal side effects taking 75mg, it seems like the right time to move up.
> It's been 2 months on 75mg and I don't feel any relief from social anxiety.
> I've been taking pfizer nardil for 6 months. From 30mg, 45mg, 60mg to 75mg.
> 
> I have severe social anxiety and I really want to give nardil a full chance by taking it at 90mg.
> Nardil is my last hope. I've taken so many different medications over the last 10 years, I don't even know what there is left to try if this doesn't work.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.


12.5mg B6 is fine. If i had to guess Id say too much B6 would probably be 50mg+ on nardil.

I dont think the 1mg/kg has much validity to it. I've been on 45mg for a while and weigh 187 lbs it that works well for me.

However, I would consider bumping up to 90mg if you arent getting enough relief.

How long have you been on 75mg nardil and 50mg lyrica?


----------



## TeenyBeany

i'm on paxil 20 mg. my doc wont let me take Nardil


----------



## Mike111

shy198 said:


> Does anybody know of an official web page that states the 1 mg/kg (1 mg/2.2 lbs) dosage guideline?


I am interested in the same question. If the gilmourr theory is really true then it seems like you must spend a lot of time to find the perfect dose since you probably need to be on a certain dose for 8 weeks, what is in my opinion really frustrating and also very tiring


----------



## viper1431

shy198 said:


> How much B6 is too much?
> 
> Does anybody know of an official web page that states the 1 mg/kg (1 mg/2.2 lbs) dosage guideline?
> 
> I'm trying to convince my psychiatrist that it's time to move up to 90mg.
> He doesn't have very much knowledge of nardil dosages and wants me to stay at 75mg or quit and try a different drug.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.


Just show him the official PI. "Dosage should be increased to at least 60 mg per day at a fairly rapid pace consistent with patient tolerance. It may be necessary to increase dosage up to 90 mg per day to obtain sufficient MAO inhibition"

There's nothing official about the 1mg per kg rule, it's one of those things that has come about from decades of users esperianced noticing the pattern that that often works out.


----------



## shy198

Thanks everyone for the replies.



mr t said:


> 12.5mg B6 is fine. If i had to guess Id say too much B6 would probably be 50mg+ on nardil.
> 
> I dont think the 1mg/kg has much validity to it. I've been on 45mg for a while and weigh 187 lbs it that works well for me.
> 
> However, I would consider bumping up to 90mg if you arent getting enough relief.
> 
> How long have you been on 75mg nardil and 50mg lyrica?


I've been on 75mg nardil for 2 months and 50mg lyrica for 6 weeks.

Lyrica helps me a lot with falling asleep, it puts my mind at ease so I can actually relax.
I would continue taking it even if Nardil doesn't work out.


----------



## viper1431

mike93271 said:


> Mr T if I am starting Nardil what can I expect regarding anorgasmia and if I want to ejaculate one day can I stop the dose for 1-2 days will that work?


Has always taken me a week after stopping it for that to be possible again.

I now lower the dose before it gets to the point of being impossible.. i can tell when it's getting close to impossible because the time gets longer and longer, unlike ssri's for me which just seem to cause it after 1 dose.


----------



## mr t

mike93271 said:


> Mr T if I am starting Nardil what can I expect regarding anorgasmia and if I want to ejaculate one day can I stop the dose for 1-2 days will that work?


I'm going to agree with vipers assesment. It might take a week or slightly more, i think thats been my experience with it. Its been a while since i dropped down my dosage from 60mg so its hard to remember exactly.

It takes some time for the MAO thats being inhibited to be replaced by new MAO enzymes.


----------



## mr t

shy198 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies.
> 
> I've been on 75mg nardil for 2 months and 50mg lyrica for 6 weeks.
> 
> Lyrica helps me a lot with falling asleep, it puts my mind at ease so I can actually relax.
> I would continue taking it even if Nardil doesn't work out.


So are you getting adequate anxiety relief from the 75mg nardil plus the lyrica or is depression the remaining problem? or both?


----------



## viper1431

Takes a couple months at a high dose for anorgasmnia to happen for me.
What i mean about stopping it is if i do get to the point of anorgamia being a side effect then i need to stop nardil for a week for that to go away, a hell of a lot stronger than ssri's in my experience.

But what i do is take a high dose to start and since the anorgamia doesn't happen straight away but it sort of gets worse and worse over time so when it get's to a point where it takes a while but is still possible i then lower the dose to a maintenece dose, i judge it by that and blood pressure.


----------



## shy198

mr t said:


> So are you getting adequate anxiety relief from the 75mg nardil plus the lyrica or is depression the remaining problem? or both?


I'm getting no anxiety relief at all.

Depression has never been to much of a problem. I've noticed since taking nardil i'm in a better mood then usual, but the reason i'm taking it is to try and get some relief from severe social anxiety.


----------



## Leeroythedeecoy

i have a question because i can't seem to find enough info about it online. i know nardil gives side effects as you keep uping the dosage, but they go away after a bit. i have had a few side effects now that have gone away. but i just got a new one that i want to know more about. for a couple of days now, the longer i sit or sleep the worse it gets. when i get up and move around, i start to black out, and then i end up on the ground shaking a bit. today was worse, as i has happened everytime i have gotten up to do something, and each time was a full or close to full blackout that had me on the ground. my question, and hopefully Mr. T can tell me about it, is if this is common and how long does this one normally last?


----------



## puppy

That's common and should last for maybe a week at the level of severity you are experiencing now. You will probably have the shakes and lightheadedness for about a month.


----------



## Leeroythedeecoy

Someone asked me about nardil and this was a decent answer so i'll share it here also : )

I have been on Nardil now for about 2 months i think. I started at 15 mg and added 15mg every 4-5 days intill i was on 45mg. I then added 15mg once a week intill i was at 90mg, which is what i have been on for a few weeks now. My particular brand of illness is Agoraphobia and Panic Disorder. I have been locked in my house for about 7 years now, not even able to go outside to take the trash to the curb or make phone calls without a panic attack happening. Because of this medication, i have been able to do many things i thought i would never be able to do again. Phone calls, driving, stores, and very very short answers to the people in check out stands so far. Its been 7 years so its going to take more then 2 months to get my life all the way back. I actually just got back from a 2 day trip 75 miles away from my house to see my best friend and my Goddaughter. I even drove onto a ferry to make the trip more interesting. If you don't already know, Nardil is pretty much the best, but most often last option for anxiety or worse. Times for it to be effective vary from person to person, sometimes taking up to 6 or more months. You can get some pretty weird, annoying, and sometimes hard to deal with side effects. So far with me, and alot of people i have read about, they don't last long. Each of my side effects have so far not lasted more then a week or two before stopping. I tend to get what people call the worst side effects so i have had most of them from nardil, but nothing that isn't worth putting up with. Right now i have had trouble moving around after sitting for awhile without my body trying to blackout on me. It has been a few days of this, but it is already starting to get better. So yeah, i would recommend it for everyone. Just push through the side effects, if you even get any; and wait patiently for the awesomeness to start. : )


----------



## viper1431

Yeah that's the orthostatic hypotension. Unfortunatly that's one that didn'tt go away for me which is why i now have to be very careful to lower the dose down just before that starts happening.


----------



## boostinggtir

Leeroythedeecoy said:


> Someone asked me about nardil and this was a decent answer so i'll share it here also : )
> 
> I have been on Nardil now for about 2 months i think. I started at 15 mg and added 15mg every 4-5 days intill i was on 45mg. I then added 15mg once a week intill i was at 90mg, which is what i have been on for a few weeks now. My particular brand of illness is Agoraphobia and Panic Disorder. I have been locked in my house for about 7 years now, not even able to go outside to take the trash to the curb or make phone calls without a panic attack happening. Because of this medication, i have been able to do many things i thought i would never be able to do again. Phone calls, driving, stores, and very very short answers to the people in check out stands so far. Its been 7 years so its going to take more then 2 months to get my life all the way back. I actually just got back from a 2 day trip 75 miles away from my house to see my best friend and my Goddaughter. I even drove onto a ferry to make the trip more interesting. If you don't already know, Nardil is pretty much the best, but most often last option for anxiety or worse. Times for it to be effective vary from person to person, sometimes taking up to 6 or more months. You can get some pretty weird, annoying, and sometimes hard to deal with side effects. So far with me, and alot of people i have read about, they don't last long. Each of my side effects have so far not lasted more then a week or two before stopping. I tend to get what people call the worst side effects so i have had most of them from nardil, but nothing that isn't worth putting up with. Right now i have had trouble moving around after sitting for awhile without my body trying to blackout on me. It has been a few days of this, but it is already starting to get better. So yeah, i would recommend it for everyone. Just push through the side effects, if you even get any; and wait patiently for the awesomeness to start. : )


Nardil takes more like three months plus for full effect. You may still be in for more changers yet. Yea the inabaily to ejaculate goes away, after a wile. I'm not sure why people are needing to stop nadil temporally.:blank


----------



## mr t

Leeroythedeecoy said:


> i have a question because i can't seem to find enough info about it online. i know nardil gives side effects as you keep uping the dosage, but they go away after a bit. i have had a few side effects now that have gone away. but i just got a new one that i want to know more about. for a couple of days now, the longer i sit or sleep the worse it gets. when i get up and move around, i start to black out, and then i end up on the ground shaking a bit. today was worse, as i has happened everytime i have gotten up to do something, and each time was a full or close to full blackout that had me on the ground. my question, and hopefully Mr. T can tell me about it, is if this is common and how long does this one normally last?


Thats from orthostatic hypotension (low blood pressure). It can be a side effect from nardil, I've had it happen before where my vision went and it took about 10 seconds to return.

Taking nardil lowers your blood pressure, sometimes to the point where its too low. Standing up is a problem bc your blood pressure must jump back up higher to fight gravity and the short in blood pressure getting high enough causes temporary vision black out.

Find ways to up your blood pressure-drinking more water, caffeine, etc. I'm sure you can find plenty of ways on google.

If it doesnt go away you might have to lower your dose, even just temporarily.

Your doctor should be taking your blood pressure when you have an appointment, thats why they do it.


----------



## viper1431

Well for me nardil feels like adrenaline in my chest . I don't feel a lot in my head, it just seems to work without me feeling it in there.


----------



## zendog78

Well, I thought I would update on my combo in case anyone is listening.

4 months ago I dropped back from 6 nardil per day to 2 and I added 25mg lamictal and 1 tablet of valdoxen at night.

I have lost a stack of weight and kept it off. My sexual function is back to normal, in fact as far as I can tell, I am side effect free.

Anxiety and depression are under control- coping pretty well, just as good as I was on nardil alone except I feel more myself.

Nardil has almost opiate like qualities I think. It is a blissful anathesisa that you cant see when you are on it, only when you stop and notice the world is much more crisp and real.

Some days I take 3 nardil, if I am feeling I am going through a hump.
I am free of panic attacks, depression is ok, as good as on nardil, ocd is much improved.

I had been on and off nardil for maybe 5 years before this. 
If your struggling wide side effects I encourage you to give it a go.


----------



## viper1431

How much is the valdoxen costing you ?


----------



## mr t

mike93271 said:


> What does Nardil feel like? I mean really feel like? What do you feel in your chest? I am depressed so I feel a cold, empty, sometimes burning and uneasy feeling in my chest. What do you feel like in your thoughts, are the negative thoughts just erased? I have a problem I think too much, I can't stop thinking, will Nardil help that too?
> 
> Basically my brain structure is f*ked up in a few places, my amygdala is hyperactive and decreased in size, apparently, compared to normal. My prefrontal cortex is underactive. Given that Nardil cannot change the structure of the brain and only changes chemicals, is it realistic for me to expect the symptoms as a result of my structural defects in my brain to improve significantly? Do you have the suspicion like I do that Nardil (and/or its metabolites) act in ways that are as yet unknown to anyone? I mean, I've heard all these miracle accounts of Nardil and for me it would be just a true blessing if this worked, because I've been in such pain for so many years and fed the whole spectrum of modern sugar pills (antidepressants) as well as antipsychotics and more.
> 
> I am going to start Nardil next week.
> 
> When I started Effexor before I wanted to kill myself the first 2 weeks, got disturbing urges, can this happen on Nardil or are the start up effects mostly just physical in nature?
> 
> I am praying Nardil works I'm atheist really but I just don't know what else to do lol


One thing about nardil is that I never feel like I'm on a medication which is a good thing. No zombification, or numbness like on SSRIs.. I just feel normal like I should be without SA.

That feeling in your chest is a physical manifestation of anxiety. Nardil seems to help that by decreases GABA breakdown, therefore increasing GABA concentrations. Negative thoughts aren't erased but they've been greatly reduced for me the a manageable level where I can deal with them myself fairly easily. It should help slow down excessive worrying thoughts etc..

Nardil will cause a change structurally. Causing changes in neurotransmitter concentration and signalling will cause changes in regulation of receptors in the brain.

You can google "short/long term sensitivation" and "long term potentiation" to learn about how NT signalling can change the density of receptors, number/size of axons and dendrites.

Good luck and I hope nardil helps!!


----------



## crossfadex

I've been on nardil for 3 months - 60mg for 6 weeks and 75mg for the passed 2 weeks (unknowingly from my pdoc). I saw him today and he wanted to bring me back down to 45mg now because of the side effects. The only side effects I haven't had are the hypotension and constipation. I gained about 10 pounds in a month and I don't like it at all.

I don't think I'm ever going to feel anything from this drug. Would that mean Parnate might not work for me?


----------



## viper1431

No, it doesn't mean that. Parnate feels/acts quite differently in my experience even though their basic method of action is the same.
There is still differences between them other than the primary action. Parnate is considered more stimulating for eg.


----------



## ChopSuey

crossfadex said:


> I've been on nardil for 3 months - 60mg for 6 weeks and 75mg for the passed 2 weeks (unknowingly from my pdoc). I saw him today and he wanted to bring me back down to 45mg now because of the side effects. The only side effects I haven't had are the hypotension and constipation. I gained about 10 pounds in a month and I don't like it at all.
> 
> I don't think I'm ever going to feel anything from this drug. Would that mean Parnate might not work for me?


That you haven't felt any postural hypotension could be a problem; postural hypotension usually correlates with a certain % of MAO inhibition. Many psychiatrists point out that once you've encountered the postural hypotension you've also gotten to the therapeutic dose.

Perhaps you need to go as high as 90mg to get a antidepressant effect, but then again this is just a wild guess. You've certainly been on it long enough to be able to get a therapeutic response, how much do you weigh?

And about Parnate; it could still be highly beneficial for you no matter what response nardil gives you.


----------



## viper1431

As well as a drop in BP i always find when i've reached a proper therapeutic response is when my appetite goes away and i rarely feel hungry. I start losing weight then.
I find the quickest way to get there is to take the dose twice a day.. 20 in morning and then 30 in the afternoon.. or slightly more.. i prefer 75-90mg when getting nardil to kick in properly.


----------



## crossfadex

ChopSuey said:


> That you haven't felt any hypotension could be a problem; hypotension usually correlates with % of MAO inhibition. Many psychiatrists point out that once you've encountered the hypotension you've also gotten to the therapeutic dose.
> 
> Perhaps you need to go as high as 90mg to get a antidepressant effect, but then again this is just a wild guess. You've certainly been on it long enough to be able to get a therapeutic response, how much do you weigh?
> 
> And about Parnate; it could still be highly beneficial for you no matter what response nardil gives you.


I weighed like 134 before starting Nardil, now I weigh about 143. I have practically every other side effect. I had hypotension for a few days but thats because I took some propranolol and it went away ever since then.

I did just get some Ativan today though! I thought my pdoc was a benzo-phobe but he said maybe I needed something PRN for anxiety. Ativan has actually proved beneficial to me, whereas klonopin and xanax seemed to have no effect (except for xanax's sleepiness).


----------



## bazinga

Reading about the side effects and scary diet regimen for nardil makes me feel panicky sometimes. I want to try the med but that diet seems tough to follow. Thinking about becoming vegetarian just to be safe. I already have a minor panic problem where after I eat my heart starts racing and I get nervous that I am going to get sick. Nardil may send me into full blown panic mode after I eat.


----------



## yourfavestoner

bazinga said:


> Reading about the side effects and scary diet regimen for nardil makes me feel panicky sometimes. I want to try the med but that diet seems tough to follow. Thinking about becoming vegetarian just to be safe. I already have a minor panic problem where after I eat my heart starts racing and I get nervous that I am going to get sick. Nardil may send me into full blown panic mode after I eat.


The diet is so ****ing outdated, don't worry about it. There are really only a few absolute no-nos. It's painfully easy to follow.

I had the same problem when I was on Nardil as far as being paranoid about foods, but it was just the ever anxious me being anxious.

Here's a good version that's actually updated -

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...W3Htn1&sig=AHIEtbQ9y9AqUaxbd7Af2Ju8eRuvkDEb0g

tl;dr - Overblown


----------



## boostinggtir

mike93271 said:


> I've been on Nardil about 2 weeks now...
> 
> I feel no therapeutic effects so far, I've been knocked out a few nights from it which is strange as I had heard it caused insomnia. But bizarrely this morning I woke up very early after just 3 hours sleep, but then I went back to sleep after I ate something. Some mornings or should I say afternoons I wake up and I cannot move. I felt some strange rushes of energy to my chest and head, but they were brief, as if I could see some hope, it felt like my brain was changing, but then it went back to normal. It could just be my imagination. Those rushes to my head are weird. No side effects apart from daytime fatigue, real Nardil nod, and I can really smell Nardil when I take a dump. Does anyone else notice it? It's really not nice and reminds me every time I am taking some extreme pills here. I know it's the Nardil because I chewed one orange tablet in my mouth at the start because I have a strange habit I always need to see what a new drug tastes like.
> 
> No bad side effects like akathisia or intensifying suicidal thoughts or feelings as I got on all the SSRIs, so Nardil is quite benign in that sense. At the same time, for some periods of the day I can feel like a very powerful drug is hitting me. Especially when I am knocked out and can't move. I still feel passively suicidal as usual, no change there. And I get intense waves of suicidal thoughts/feelings, as per usual, no change there.
> 
> One thing I get which is weird is a few occasions I have burst out crying. It's like my crying has more energy than usual and it just bursts out. I was randomly listening to a sad song the other day and burst out in tears briefly (I rarely cry usually), and then after a few seconds it stopped, then when I was watching TV I burst out crying again, then when I was thinking about a lost love who did not love me I burst out crying for 2 seconds, then stopped. I feel somewhat less anxious on Nardil, mainly because it seems to hit me over the head quite hard, although it's only been two weeks... but I still feel generally anxious and still very depressed. Has anyone else had this crying crap?
> 
> Oh and I also feel physically very weak, my BP is normal but I breathe much more shallower, as if I don't have the energy to breathe deeply. Basically reminds me of when I used to take 20mg Zyprexa and I'd be tranquilized so heavily my breathing became quite shallow.
> 
> Anyway just a quick update as not many people take Nardil all experience can help.


Don't expect much two weeks in.. What dose are you currently taking? To be honest, assuming you've done some research and read a few jorounals, you should know not to expect much at this point. Nardil takes a good wile to work as it's supposed to. many give up before that point.


----------



## mr t

mike93271 said:


> I'm on 45mg... Yeah I know what you mean, I just can't wait for these depressive feelings, anxiety and obsessive thoughts to go away...
> 
> Feel so weak, and nauseous as well, BP is normal but feel so weak...


Yea its gonna take longer than 2 weeks. I think I started to notice it to begin to work between 3-4 weeks in when I first started. And I was on 60mg probably by my 2nd week on it.

You probably won't start getting a ton of relief until you go up to 60mg. Or if you stay at 45mg it might take longer to get results just because you are basically waiting for around 70-80% MAO inhibition, which you will achieve quicker at 60mg obviously.

Few questions for ya:

-When do you take your dose (AM or PM) and do you split up the 45mg into multiple doses or all at once?

-Are you planning on going up to 60mg?


----------



## gilmourr

Comin' back on nardil mr.ttttttttt, doing 45 mg this time with nothing else until it stabilizes, then going with what u said about pregabalin or gabapentin as an adjunct probs

zoloft withdrawals are ****ing hell, but somehow I feel happier that the apathy is going away


----------



## pgenki

I am trying to move to 60mg from 75mg. I usually cycle between 60 and 75 (mostly staying at 75) but I would love to move it down a bit or even cycle between 45 and 60..Main reason I want to do this is to reduce the side effects and be able to lose some weight.
But I am having problems staying at 60mg right now. It has been about 2.5 weeks now but I am still having graphic nightmares, more anxiety and no drive. Brain zaps have mostly stopped.

I am BP1 and also take Lamictal and Cytomel. 
I don't know, should I just go back to 5/day? I don't have any dreams at 5/day, let alone nightmares. Or is there something that can help a bit? Maybe dose it differently or an adjunct? Right now I take all 4 before bed (I don't get the nightmares unless I take an afternoon nap).


----------



## Cattleya1

*Nardil may potentiate Multaq*

Possible Interaction of MULTAQ with NARDIL My wife has used Nardil with success for 30 years ; her present dose is 15 mg QID (60/d.) I am writing this to alert other Nardil users to an unexpected interaction with Multaq (dronedarone, Sanofi) a drug used to prevent re-occurrences of atrial fibrillation. My wife experienced profound bradycardia (HR < 50 bpm), weakness and dyspnea after 5 doses (two days) on drug. After DX, she recovered over a 2 day period to normal heart rate. The US FDA package insert is silent on MAOI's. However, International package inserts from the rest of the world contain a disclosure that MAOI's impede clearance by amine-oxidases of the active metabolite of Multaq, potentially resulting in overdosage. We would not have started Multaq had we been aware of this issue. I have alerted both Sanofi and the US FDA of the need to harmonize with other agencies on this issue. 
As many Nardil users know, critical care physicians are too often unaware of serious Nardil interactions. I would recommend as a resource the free-text article by PK Gillman in British Journal Anaesthesia 95: 434 (2005)which deals with fatal risk to serotonin toxicity ("storms") following unwitting coadministration of many popular anaesthetics and pain-killers.


----------



## The Professor

Can anyone find a source that lists the percentages of people who experience each side effect of nardil? I can't find any and it seems like they are hiding those numbers


----------



## crossfadex

I've been on 90mg for a few weeks even though my pdoc wanted me to drop from 60mg down to 45mg. I've been on it for 14 weeks.
90mg still feels like 60mg. No orthostatic hypotension, no constipation, no insomnia. Weight gain still present.

I think its time to fall back to 45mg like my pdoc wants. I'd like to try Parnate and hopefully he will be perceptive.


----------



## ChopSuey

crossfadex said:


> I've been on 90mg for a few weeks even though my pdoc wanted me to drop from 60mg down to 45mg. I've been on it for 14 weeks.
> 90mg still feels like 60mg. No orthostatic hypotension, no constipation, no insomnia. Weight gain still present.
> 
> I think its time to fall back to 45mg like my pdoc wants. I'd like to try Parnate and hopefully he will be perceptive.


If you never ever felt any therapeutic effect from Nardil even after several months of use, then giving Parnate a try might be a very good idea!

Taken from a study;

"Parnate also merits further investigation as clinical experience suggests that it can produce a dramatic response in some patients with nardil-resistant disorders."


----------



## gilmourr

April 18th - start day of nardil! 45 mg. Hopefully I don't get urinary retention/chills/hyperreflexes like last time. I ****ing miss this ****.


----------



## ChopSuey

mike93271 said:


> Me too, no constipation, no insomnia, no hypotension. Have only been on 45 for 3 weeks. My friends I'm still very depressed, I feel so sad and anxious
> 
> Have upped the dose need it to work soon...


3 weeks is too soon to expect any results. A therapeutic trial of Nardil is 4-8 weeks. If no positive response is noticed within this time frame, then it might be a good idea to increase your dose.

Many people also become hypomanic for a short period of time, and it's easy to believe that it's the real deal starting to work. But the real effects take longer to kick in, so don't make the mistake a lot of people do and quit Nardil too soon.


----------



## ChopSuey

I don't believe I've read that story. But as long as you still breathe there's always a chance things will turn around. I hope that Nardil is the drug for you, but even if that's not the case i wish that you still have some energy left in you to keep going. There's always some new drug or possible solution around the next corner waiting to be discovered.

Have you tried any CBT, and what was your response? Combining it with your current drug trial would certainly boost your success.


----------



## ChopSuey

I had zero faith in CBT, I had tried it before and it did absolutely nothing for me. But with the concurrent use of Nardil it was actually useful; CBT was not a miracle by any means, but it added some positive things to my life. Even if it just adds a 5% relief of one of your symptoms, is it not worth it?

You have a remarkable list of tried meds in your baggage. But now you're left with the two heavyweight champions of antidepressant history. (Nardil and Parnate) They're known to be beneficial when all other ADs have failed. Imo you should go as high on your nardil dosage as you can until side effects become too unbearable and stay on that dosage for a while until you get relief. Then you can start thinking of perhaps lowering to a maintenance dose. Personally i started at 75mg, sure i had some hellish side effects for a couple of weeks.. But most will disappear after a while.

I do not have any personal experience of MAOI augmentation, and it should be done with extreme caution. Noteworthy and presumably useful combos would be;

Parnate 80mg + Methylphenidate 60mg
Parnate 80mg + Dextroamphetamine 30mg
Parnate + Nortriptyline + Lithium (Start with low dose Nortriptyline, then add MAOI)
Parnate + Desipramine

Nardil + Psychostimulant
Nardil + Wellbutrin 150mg
Nardil + Reboxetine or Nortriptyline + Possibly low dose stimulant


Completely safe combos:

MAOI + Benzodiazepine
MAOI + ECT

Lots of options there.


----------



## yourfavestoner

Don't have a question about the drug itself, but does anyone know the name of the Law and Order episode where the victim dies due to a drug interaction with Nardil? A quick google search revealed nothing.


----------



## ChopSuey

mike93271 said:


> I'm not sure about the stimulant combos because I have really bad anxiety, I'm very much on edge all the time. I definitely need an antidepressant for my terrible mood, but also to be calmed down.


I've also got pretty bad anxiety, but stimulants work wonders for me. They don't really calm me down, but they obliterate anxiety issues for me.

At 4 weeks Nardil sometimes isn't that much different from placebo effect. It's at around 6 weeks on average that the medication usually starts doing its magic according to studies. And some people have reported a very long delay in antidepressant response, such as 2-3 months. So you certainly shouldn't give up too soon! It's known to have 70%~ response rate; pretty good odds.


----------



## yourfavestoner

Chop I wanted to poke your brain about Parnate, which I'm hoping to try.

It's only made in 10 mg tablets - what would you say is the typical titration rate and what dose could I expect to be kicked up to? And what's the typical highest dose one will go to with it?


----------



## Cascade

I've been on Nardil since the beginning of February and I honestly feel in my 38 years it could be one of, if not the best, decision I ever made. I had been taking 60 mg and had mild side effects, but nothing I couldn't deal with. Then I started developing severe orthostatic hypotension to the point of fainting frequently. What has complicated all of this is that I got a severe concussion at the end of February and at first they thought it was a combination of Nardil plus some of the concussion meds. I've since lowered Nardil to 30 mg (with the thought that we would increase it after concussion symptoms ended) and switched concussion meds. I am now taking Fludrocortisone, which is essentially a steroid for orthostatic hypotension. With it I no longer have the feeling that I am going to faint at any moment, but my BP does still get dangerously low but not as frequently. The only meds I am on at the moment are the Nardil, Fludrocortisone and I've taken Reglan three times when I couldn't tolerate the nausea any longer (concussion). The problem is that my pdoc doesn't prescribe MAOI much and says he has no experience with concussions and tells me to talk to the neurologist about everything and the neurologist says he has never had a patient on an MAOI and doesn't have any answers for me. I've increased fluid and sodium in my diet and some occasional caffeine. I don't know what to do because I will be devastated if I have to stop the Nardil. I know someone just brought up orthostatic hypotension, but please I am curious to receive more responses from people on their experience or ideas. Has anyone had this side effect and had it resolve after time? Is there anything else you can think of for me to do? Thank you for any help / thoughts.


----------



## Cascade

I forgot to mention I also take occasional Ambien.


----------



## ChopSuey

Cascade said:


> I know someone just brought up orthostatic hypotension, but please I am curious to receive more responses from people on their experience or ideas. Has anyone had this side effect and had it resolve after time? Is there anything else you can think of for me to do? Thank you for any help / thoughts.


The orthostatic hypotension usually disappears or lessens over time. But if it's too severe at the moment, which it certainly seems to be in your case, you could combine fludrocortisone with midodrine (2.5mg - 10mg daily, and increasing as needed.) This is extremely effective, although the efficacy of both drugs tend to wane after concurrent use for a while, but it is fixed by having a short medication holiday, and restarting both drugs. There's other agents that can be used as well, but they also have a higher risk for more severe side effects.

Best of luck.


----------



## ChopSuey

yourfavestoner said:


> Chop I wanted to poke your brain about Parnate, which I'm hoping to try.
> 
> It's only made in 10 mg tablets - what would you say is the typical titration rate and what dose could I expect to be kicked up to? And what's the typical highest dose one will go to with it?


Poke away, but i doubt there's much to be found inside my skull except some dust perhaps!

A good starting dosage is 20mg, then increase dose by 10mg in intervals of at least 1 week until desired effect is achieved. What dose you could expect to get depends on two things: where you live and how experienced your pdoc is. In the UK/AUS the official max dosage is extremely low (30mg) and pdocs without much experience generally likes to follow those guidelines. In the rest of the world the max dosage is usually set at 60mg, so it should be easier to get a higher dose prescribed in the US.

Back in the stone age (60's) extremely large dosages were used that shot up as high as 200mg+ combined with amphetamines. Nowadays I've heard that experienced doctors are willing to go well above 100mg. A widely effective and accepted dose of Parnate is often said to be 0.7mg/kg, but some people might need to go higher.

The german manufacturer of tranylcypromine (Jatrosom) is afaik the only one in the world that offers 20mg tablets in packages of 50 & 100 tablets.


----------



## viper1431

means you arnt taking enough


----------



## ChopSuey

mike93271 said:


> What happens if you've had 0 hypotension, does that mean it's not being effective? Or not going to be effective?


Increase dose until you experience noticeable but not debilitating postural hypotension. Then you're at a good dose.


----------



## viper1431

60 is beginner dose. Hit her up to 90. split it into 2 doses a day (45 x2) if you really want it to kick you hard.


----------



## puppy

You can email other doctors and explain your situation to them. Hopefully you can find another willing to prescribe MAOIs at a higher dose.


----------



## viper1431

You can try 90 for a few days then go back to 60 for the next few days- week etc. That's similar to what I do as for me it feels like it just needs a few days of 90 to kick start it. If you can't get the next refill script a few days early (just tell the doc you want it ready so there's no days u have to go without incase the chemist takes a day or 2 to order it in) then at worst you just spend a few days on 30 which shouldn't be a problem usually.


----------



## yourfavestoner

mike93271 said:


> My doc is saying 60mg is the max he's allowed to go. What the **** do I do, I know I will probably need more. I've got a script obviously so I could get it online if I could find a place that sells it, but they would prob try to contact my doctor as it's a MAOI and if my doc finds out he would prob withdraw the script. I already had a hard time enough getting the Nardil as it is...
> 
> I just can't see a way out of it, it's so dark and bleak that I couldn't ever imagine not feeling this cold...


That's total crap. A lot of people need to go to 75 or 90 to achieve a therapeutic dose. That's BS that your doctor can't see that.

Sorry to hear you're in such a bad place right now man. I'm pulling for you.


----------



## shy-one

****ing arrogant doctors and their bull****. They would rather their patient crippled with depression and anxiety, never able to leave the house, than take a ****ing risk by giving them nardil which could (and probably WILL) give them a life. Makes me sick. 

Many suicides could be prevented if more doctors had the balls to prescribe nardil. 

NARDIL SAVES LIVES.


----------



## viper1431

Problem is the world has become a land of lawsuits so everyone has to cover themselves which is why doctor's want to stick to the safe drugs like ssri's etc.


----------



## shy-one

viper1431 said:


> Problem is the world has become a land of lawsuits so everyone has to cover themselves which is why doctor's want to stick to the safe drugs like ssri's etc.


Yep, it concerns me if the popularity of nardil grows... there may be *some* people that are careless and have a hypertensive reaction, so can you guess what the knee jerk reaction in Australia will be? BAN IT! That seems to be the solution to anything that is considered unsafe/risky in Australia.

I'm actually surprised that nardil hasn't already been banned in Australia. I'm guessing its just because of the low number of people on it, so there aren't enough hypertensive cases for the government to become aware that its a "problem".


----------



## shy-one

viper1431 said:


> 60 is beginner dose. Hit her up to 90. split it into 2 doses a day (45 x2) if you really want it to kick you hard.


Nonsense. I am 85kg and did fine on just 45mg after it kicked in. The 1mg/kg rule is a myth.

To anyone else starting up, don't go beyond 60mg. I was on 45mg for the first 2 weeks, then 60mg for 6 weeks before it kicked in. Even 60mg was very harsh for me in terms of side effects (severe insomnia and very low blood pressure).

Here is my suggested start up schedule for nardil newbies:

- Get up to 45mg in the first week if possible. 
- Stay at 45mg for 2 weeks.
- Increase to 60mg ONLY if you can handle it
- Stay at 60mg for 6 weeks. If no benefit at 60mg after 6 weeks, increase to 75mg.

If it does kick in at 60mg, stay on 60mg for another few weeks until you can't tolerate the side effects no more. Then try dropping down to 45mg again. If depression returns bump it up to 60mg again.

Nardil is very dose sensitive and even 15mg can make a huge difference. It is extremely difficult to strike the right balance between efficacy vs tolerability of side effects.


----------



## viper1431

Yeah for softies. Or start at 90, take some stool softeners, and anthistamines for sleep, then enjoy the nice increase of energy that will make you not even notice you havn't slept, and let it work nice and fast.
Taking sissy amounts and u have to deal with stuff like feeling drowsy/sleep/ less energy etc, manly doses and you can go 2-3days without sleeping and not notice it.


----------



## boostinggtir

viper1431 said:


> *Yeah for softies.* Or start at 90, take some stool softeners, and anthistamines for sleep, then enjoy the nice increase of energy that will make you not even notice you havn't slept, and let it work nice and fast.
> *Taking sissy amounts* and u have to deal with stuff like feeling drowsy/sleep/ less energy etc, *manly dose*s and you can go 2-3days without sleeping and not notice it.


everyone take this guys advise.. :roll


----------



## viper1431

boostinggtir said:


> everyone take this guys advise.. :roll


Ah yes another kiddo with nothing to offer. Well come on let's see your years worth of experience and advice for having nardil work effectively instead of trolling around with useless comments.


----------



## shy-one

mike93271 said:


> OK I woke up yesterday and felt physically a lot better, my body felt like at the start of SSRIs when I had my first very good response. I feel less anxious. The effect is good but is this the extent of Nardil? I'm worried about that, as I'm still psychologically depressed/negative despite feeling better than before. I had heard it was like a lightbulb or something, it did seem like that yesterday, the improvement in my body was very sudden. But is this going to be it?
> 
> I haven't been on 60 for long at all, and have had 0 postural hypotension.


The reduction in anxiety was the first thing I noticed when it kicked in. It wasn't until about 2 weeks later when it helped depression. Perhaps it could be starting to work a little.


----------



## shy-one

mike93271 said:


> I felt a reduction in anxiety as well as improvement in mood on the same day.
> 
> I have no hypotension whatsoever, so I'm kind of wondering if I'm ever going to get that as I'd heard it was an indication of high MAO inhibition.


What is your blood pressure like normally? Perhaps its already too high?

Before nardil mine was around 140/80 so a bit on the high end of normal. Once I stabilized on 45mg it brought it down to about 120/80. When I had severe hypotension on 60mg, a few times it got down to 75/something, which is when I was collapsing a few times.


----------



## jkevelighan

*Nardil*



mr t said:


> I've been on nardil for about 13 months. I am totally symptom free of SA!!!
> 
> I come back to these forums to help push people to try nardil. Unfortunately it has a bad reputation for harsh side effects (I experience none) and bad food drug interactions, which are very easy to avoid.
> 
> I have probably been PMed by around 10 people concerning nardil, I only come on this forum to give advice and help out now.
> 
> Please feel free to contact me when any questions of Nardil- dosing, side effects, anything!! I know how bad dealing with SA sucks and controls your life, so I want to pass on any knowledge that could help those who currently take nardil or are considering it!!!
> 
> *NOTE: WHEN STARTING NARDIL START AT 15MG AND INCREASE DOSAGE BY 15MG EACH WEEK UNTIL YOU REACH 60MG!!! A HUGE MISTAKE PEOPLE MAKE IS STARTING AT A HIGHER DOSE. YOUR DOCTOR MIGHT WANT YOU TO START HIGHER BUT PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE AND SLOWLY WORK UP YOUR DOSAGE!!! YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO ADJUST!!! THIS IS KEY!!!!*
> 
> Once again, contact with me to ask any questions, I would love to help!!!
> 
> You won't be bothering me at all. I get on this forums a couple times a week so I might not answer your message right away but I will get to it!!
> 
> Good luck to all!!!
> 
> -mr t
> 
> Updated info by request***
> 
> wikipedia has a pretty good summary on nardil, mechanism of action etc..
> 
> Nardil has interaction with B6 which can lower B6 levels. B6 is critical in neurotransmitter synthesis and feeling good over all.
> 
> **I recommend supplementing a good multivitamin daily, possibly B complex but the multivitamin should provide adequate B vitamins. *Also supplementing ~2000-3000 IU of Vitamin D is great for mood. Even if you are getting plenty of sunlight, according to studies there is a trend in lower Vitamin D levels and depression. Vitamin D is also crucial for NT synthesis. I supplement vitamin D, get plenty of sunlight, and still actually had a deficiency when I got a blood test!!
> 
> *As for daytime fatigue: supplementing these vitamins can definitely help. Try drinking some coffee also, i found that has helped me alot. *Hypotension*-lowered blood pressure- is a common cause of fatigue while on nardil. You can get a cheap BP cuff at any local drug store to check your BP levels. For hypotension, drinking plenty of water daily can help increase your blood pressure, as well as increased salt in diet.
> 
> For persistent daytime fatigue: If you are on nardil for a while and fatigue is not getting better, talk to your doctor and consider trying provigil/nuvigil(modafinil/armodafinil). They are unique stimulants that destroy fatigue, do not have too bad of a crash, and importantly never greatly increased my anxiety. I prefer nuvigil over provigil, because it is the isolated R-isomer of provigil which is thought to provide most of the benefits of the drug. Nuvigil gave me less headaches, less anxiety, and less unwanted stimulatory affects such as high heart rate.
> 
> **It has been stated by my doctor by an efficacy report he made that there is a 60% percent chance patients will greatly respond to either Nardil or Parnate. Nardil seems the obvious choice first when treating SA. Basically MAOIs are a great option.
> 
> Many worry about the food interactions. The list of food interactions needs to be updated because it is way overhyped. I can eat most of what is actually on the list. Be careful though and if you are trying something that is prohibited but has been shown to be fine to eat, just eat a little bit and see how you feel.
> 
> **For me, my diet has not changed really at all. I mainly avoid very aged cheeses such as blue cheese. I can eat cheddar, provologne, mozzerella, jack etc.. Avoid AGED BEERS, ESPECIALLY *TAP BEER*. I drink plenty of beer, which i dont recommend doing anyway, but i make sure they arent too aged like some microbrews can be. Start slow at first anyway. Also avoiding aged meats like pepperoni and others. Pepperoni on chain pizzas and most others are fine. I eat pizza all the time, no problems.
> 
> Further questions of food interactions, PM me.
> 
> The drug interactions like cold medicines are much more severe and can be life threatening. These are obviously very easy to avoid.


I tried Nardil back in 2004 or 2005 but it was the "new" version which did nothing (noticeable). I've read that the manufacturer (Pfizer) changed the makeup of the drug in Sep. 2003 and it is totally different. Any info?


----------



## ChopSuey

mike93271 said:


> BP was always normal, around 120/80, now it's the same. Am I supposed to have hypotension right?


There's very few laboratories around that is capable of measuring the platelet MAO inhibition, instead it's possible to keep an eye on blood pressure. When postural hypotension occurs it is easily measurable and is a useful indicator that a therapeutic dose has been achieved.


----------



## ChopSuey

mike93271 said:


> Must the hypotension occur in all cases of Nardil for it to be working? I pretty much hear of everyone who responded having hypotension but I've had absolutely none so far.


I'm not sure about this one. Perhaps you could ask positive responders on this forum and Psycho-Babble if they felt postural hypotension during their nardil trial. A lot of people seem to have gotten a initial hypomanic reaction, which they have mistaken for Nardil working, and then quit the medication when the feeling of euphoria and energy have left them. These experiences are not relevant to blood pressure, so they should be disregarded.

The blood pressure drop does usually take 1 or 2 weeks after adequate dose is reached to become apparent, then it continues to drop to a really low level for a few days. Then it stabilizes at a higher level, yet somewhat lower than the blood pressure was before Nardil was started. You could buy one of those cheap blood pressure monitors they sell on the net for 20$ and monitor your standing BP by yourself. That's what i did.

This is what seems to be the usual development for irreversible MAOI users, but everyone is different, and hopefully you'll be able to get a beneficial response no matter what.


----------



## boostinggtir

mike93271 said:


> BP was always normal, around 120/80, now it's the same.* Am I supposed to have hypotension right?*


no, it just happens to many... People suggesting that's it's some accurate measurement relative effective, and even suggesting so all cases?!

What a load of crap. People are just making up garbage assumptions/stories.


----------



## ChopSuey

boostinggtir said:


> no, it just happens to many... People suggesting that's it's some accurate measurement relative effective, and even suggesting so all cases?!
> 
> What a load of crap. People are just making up garbage assumptions/stories.


There's very few research papers throughout the last 50 years that has delved into the correlation between blood pressure and mechanism of MAO inhibiton, but they strongly point towards it.

~2000 patients were treated with MAOI and had their BP checked on a regular basis, and pretty much everyone of them had a correlation between initial *postural* hypotension and therapeutic effect.
*
"Monitoring the blood pressure is the only available practical means of estimating the magnitude of the effects of an MAOI drug".*

Many things are still not understood about this type of medication, and probably never will be. But surely this is something far more greater than a "garbage assumption".


----------



## viper1431

I don't mean it to sound like i'm saying it's the rule for getting nardil to work. I meant it as from experience, along with other people I've talked to over the years that have had troble getting nardil to work, that it can be a very effective method to follow BP readings and judge it by what's happening there.


----------



## jkevelighan

*Nardil vs Klonopin*

I have severe social anxiety and have been on klonopin (1 1/2 mg per day) for about 10 years which helps immensely with the SA. My question is how does Nardil compare with something like klonopin for SA?


----------



## gilmourr

viper1431 said:


> 60 is beginner dose. Hit her up to 90. split it into 2 doses a day (45 x2) if you really want it to kick you hard.


This is awful advice on so many different levels. I'm sorry, but just, no. If 90 mg works for you, splendid. But surely, the vast population of patients on Nardil do NOT need 90 mg or +. If you are on 90 mg, realize that you are an exception.


----------



## viper1431

yeah much better to keep sitting on a lower dose that isn't helping.
There is a reason pfizer themselves say increase as fast as possible and that 90mg may be necessary to obtain the required mao inhibition.


----------



## gilmourr

viper1431 said:


> yeah much better to keep sitting on a lower dose that isn't helping.
> There is a reason pfizer themselves say increase as fast as possible and that 90mg may be necessary to obtain the required mao inhibition.


If you're implying that my meds don't work at a low dose, you're incorrect, as 45 mg is my optimal dose. Increasing my dosage last time lead to a relapse.

Also I really doubt that Pfizer phrased it like that. "To increase it as fast as possible." That sounds completely irresponsible and probably leaves them open to liability. I'm sure a company worth...what, $220 billion has a fairly robust risk management department. I'm actually certain you cannot cite that.

I'm fairly certain they might have said that 90 mg may be necessary to obtain the required MAO inhibition... but that is FAR from implying that the average patient requires that. It actually sounds to me like they're saying that in some cases (that are more of an exception) a select few may need 90 mg.


----------



## viper1431

Well to be exact they say to increase at a fairly rapid pace consistent with the patient tolerating it, close enough.

And yes it works at lower dose but the guy I responded to has been on it for 5 weeks now and is still feeling as terrible as before he started, Hence why I suggested 90mg to help kick it in, and 90 is still consistent with Pfizer's advice so I don't see the issue.


----------



## Learydp01

I'm currently on Paxil for SA. All it does is make me sleepy and unorgasmic. Tried Zoloft before, though I was addicted to alcohol at the time, to no avail. What are the chances of my psychiatrist agreeing to let me try Nardil? She works for my college/uni at the health center, Buffalo State college. Also, what should I tell her to up my chances of her agreeing?


----------



## ChopSuey

Learydp01 said:


> What are the chances of my psychiatrist agreeing to let me try Nardil?


These questions are just as difficult to answer;

Is punk dead?
Why does existence exist?
What happens if i somehow managed to mate a yeti with a snowman?



Learydp01 said:


> She works for my college/uni at the health center, Buffalo State college. Also, what should I tell her to up my chances of her agreeing?


Seduce her and make her fall violently madly crazy in love with you. Then she'll listen to anything you say.

Ahem.. Plan B would be doing it the traditional way: do your own research about Nardil until you know everything about the drug; effects, diet, dangers, interactions etc. Then lay it all on the table, show her that you're responsible and careful and that you'd really want to try Nardil. Many doctors will straight out refuse no matter what you do, but you won't know until you try.


----------



## yourfavestoner

A good rule of thumb if you're looking to try Nardil or Parnate for that matter is - look for an older psychiatrist. Far from a lock, but they're much more likely to be willing to do it than a younger one without much - if any - MAO Inhibitor experience. I've made sure every single psychiatrist I've looked at was old. The first pdoc I had had been in practice for close to 40 years and he let me try Nardil. My current one has been in practice for over 30 years, and he's going to let me try Parnate.


----------



## shy-one

yourfavestoner said:


> A good rule of thumb if you're looking to try Nardil or Parnate for that matter is - look for an older psychiatrist. Far from a lock, but they're much more likely to be willing to do it than a younger one without much - if any - MAO Inhibitor experience. I've made sure every single psychiatrist I've looked at was old. The first pdoc I had had been in practice for close to 40 years and he let me try Nardil. My current one has been in practice for over 30 years, and he's going to let me try Parnate.


I was actually first prescribed nardil from a young dr straight out of med school. Unlike most doctors, he was a lot more open minded and less arrogant. Young doctors straight out of med school are probably also more likely to prescribe nardil as well, simply because they don't have the arrogance.


----------



## Chiko

Is it more effective then effexor xr ?


----------



## yourfavestoner

Chiko said:


> Is it more effective then effexor xr ?


Yes.


----------



## crossfadex

If Nardil doesn't work the first time, is it possible for it to work a second time in the future? MAOIs are really unpredictable and inconsistent.

Switching from Nardil to Parnate shouldn't cause Parnate to be any less effective should it? Considering it takes weeks for MAO to replenish, correct?


----------



## viper1431

It hasn't for me, I've switched from it to other meds, including parnate, many times over the last 15 years amd it has always worked well when going back to nardil.


----------



## adamaus

does this stuff kill your sex drive


----------



## ChopSuey

adamaus said:


> does this stuff kill your sex drive


My sex drive is still sky high, and I've still got lots of sex. I've however got extreme difficulties to cum, but the ladies don't complain.


----------



## adamaus

does this stuff kill your sex drive? if it does is there anything else i can take? wellvbutrin??


----------



## boostinggtir

It goes for about a month then CUMS :|:| back.. as the body adjusts.


----------



## adamaus

ok, are you sure? What are others peoples experience with this med and libido?


----------



## viper1431

libido? No issue for me, can make it ridiculously high at times. Which should be expected from something like nardil that increases dopamine.


----------



## SA232

mr t said:


> *I supplement vitamin D, get plenty of sunlight, and still actually had a deficiency when I got a blood test!!*


According to the following article, supplementing vitamin D in either of the two forms will prevent the body from properly assimilating vitamin D.

Why I don't take vitamin D supplements


----------



## zendog78

Well, I spent the last 6 months trying to get by on only 2 Nardil a day and that is 6 months of my life that is gone and I will never get back.

I was augmenting nardil with valdoxen, worked ok for a while but basically was sub standard.

With my relationship imploding, being unable to work and struugling with panic attacks every day I decided to hell with it and bumped my dose right back up to 5 tablets a day.

The difference is shocking.

I never realised just how depressed I was.
Last night I laughed for the first time in months. I am now looking forward to going back to work and the panic attacks have stopped.

To have such a fast remission, you see what depression is like. 

It is like carrying a big weight on your back, from morning to night.

It is like having a heavy wet blanket covering you, slowing you down.

It is like a fog, nothing is clear, everything is distorted

I look in the mirror now and I see someone different looking back at me. This world weary feeling being gone so suddenly..It is so strange.

However

Now I have to try to not regain the 12KG I lost in only 6 months. Now I have to get on top of the constipation and bloating, urinary hesitation and urgency.

I tried Metformin at the highest dose a long time ago and it seemed to stop the weight gain but not help me lose what I had gained already.

I might try again now before I gain the weight, I can already feel my hunger and desire to eat coming back.

While nardil definitely promotes fat retention, don't kid yourself as to how much more it makes you eat.

However much extra you think nardil is making you eat, double it! That is how much extra you are really eating. You are so hungry all the time that even when you deny yourself, you are still over eating.

I wouldn't let myself have sweetened drinks and never ate junk food but I still packed on a good 15kg of weight.

Muesli is what did it to me. I would eat it at night to help settle my hunger so I could sleep.

I am going to body build this time. I pack on muscle so easily and I even get a little self conscious of how muscular I get. 
But the choice is muscle bound or fat....so I will take the former.


----------



## tieffers

SSRIs make me feel numbed out and emotionally blunted. Is this ever a problem with Nardil? Thanks. x


----------



## ILOVEXANAX

IME not really, Nardil is an MAOI. seems to be ok apart from memory issues but I also take xanax


----------



## tieffers

ILOVEXANAX said:


> IME not really, Nardil is an MAOI. seems to be ok apart from memory issues but I also take xanax


That's encouraging, thanks.  Sorry to bump again, but I've been taking St. John's Wort for five days and have only gotten mild relief. I want to switch to Nardil as soon as possible. Does anyone know when it would be safe to do this?


----------



## Cascade

Hello again. I'm wondering from all you out there what have you done to try to combat the side effect of excessive gas? I feel like for the first time in life I am finally engaging with others socially. I've waited my whole life to reach this point and now that I've lost the fear of being around others, I stink. The flatulence is constant. I take gas-x which works a little. Aside from the undesirable smell, the bloating is also very uncomfortable. I'd love to hear any tactics or approaches you've taken to minimize this effect. Thanks!


----------



## Cascade

I should also mention that I am NOT taking the Greenstone version (name of other is eluding me right now).


----------



## ChopSuey

Cascade said:


> Hello again. I'm wondering from all you out there what have you done to try to combat the side effect of excessive gas? I feel like for the first time in life I am finally engaging with others socially. I've waited my whole life to reach this point and now that I've lost the fear of being around others, I stink. The flatulence is constant. I take gas-x which works a little. Aside from the undesirable smell, the bloating is also very uncomfortable. I'd love to hear any tactics or approaches you've taken to minimize this effect. Thanks!


I've got problem with this as well, one of the side effects that has persisted. I've taken laxatives and anti gas meds, whch have removed the constipation and gas. But the bloating still remains, which has gotten me to believe that water retention in the gut might be the real culprit. So I'm soon gonna get a diuretic, and hopefully that will solve it.

Dimethicone works well against the gas. Which has been known to kill living organisms if released in the wrong direction.


----------



## yourfavestoner

Cascade said:


> I should also mention that I am NOT taking the Greenstone version (name of other is eluding me right now).


Gavis


----------



## crossfadex

Gavis is what I took as well. And yes, Nardil gas is weird but thankfull I only had it at night for some reason, once in bed and alone lol so no issues with that. 

I've been off Nardil for a week and its nice to see the bloating has vanished  as well as shedding the pounds. I'm still kinda sad that Nardil didn't help me at all though. It sucks having to put up with the sexual/weight SEs for nothing. 

Hopefully I can get on Parnate soon though.


----------



## adamaus

Does Nardil downregulate your receptors in the same way SSRI's do?


----------



## adamaus

crossfadex said:


> Gavis is what I took as well. And yes, Nardil gas is weird but thankfull I only had it at night for some reason, once in bed and alone lol so no issues with that.
> 
> I've been off Nardil for a week and its nice to see the bloating has vanished  as well as shedding the pounds. I'm still kinda sad that Nardil didn't help me at all though. It sucks having to put up with the sexual/weight SEs for nothing.
> 
> Hopefully I can get on Parnate soon though.


Sexual SEs?

I keep reading people do not have that problem with this drug?

Why not take Cyproheptadine?


----------



## SA232

Nardil caused major libido suppression for me.


----------



## joshyboy

Hey I'm starting to get on the nardil bandwagon after talking to some people and I think I'm gonna give it a shot. Did any on you guys or girls who take it experience that initial "euphoric" feeling only to become accustomed to it and then it stopped working, or was it more long-term and balanced? thanks


----------



## SA232

That's exactly what happened to me. In my opinion many drugs just work like regular drugs where continual administration just leads to tolerance. I bumped my dose up to 90 mg on day 3 and subsequently took as much as 180 mg in a 24 hour period. On the second day on the 90 I was totally disinhibited and I headed into the city after midnight to see a friend the next morning, which was my first time interacting with someone in like a year.

I never experienced any side effects from using high doses all at once. I was also taking vit. B6 and its precursor P-5-P, as apparantly that's necessary for Nardil.

I do not reccommend any pharmaceutical antidepressants whatsoever. I don't think they body was menat to be given these drugs continuously and how can the sexual suppression be worth it?

Harmala alkaloids may do the same thing, and sound like they're more compatible with the body. You also shouldn't feel the need

Correspondance with soemone on another forum who medicated with harmala alkaloids:

Me: Does it give you a kind of floaty, slightly euphoric, disinhibited feeling. Because I recently tried a trial of the MAOI Nardil and it does that (it has a really good reputation -- it really works), but I'd like to switch to harmalas as, unlike Nardil, they're not toxic.

Response: Yes

_the neurochemical evidence suggests that the harmala alkaloids are an analogue of pinoline which is produced in the pineal gland, noting that in the comparison between the action of the harmala alkaloids and pinoline it must be remembered that a one-position change in methoxy grouping can be profound in its action._

On a Possible Psychophysiology of the Yogic Chakra System. Dr S.M. Roney-Dougal

_Western psychotherapists have experimented with harmaline both in isolation and in conjunction with DMT, and Claudio Naranjo reports that he had considerable success in using the psychedelic to treat alcohol and cocaine addiction. (Naranjo, 1974.) There is some reason to believe it may be useful even in a clinical psychotherapeutic context. He also claimed that it was useful in other mental illness contexts because it often helped the patient gain "clarity" regarding their situation._

Naranjo, Claudio, The Healing Journey: new approaches to consciousness, Pantheon Books, New York, 1974.

http://www2.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/daime.htm

Good article on MAOIs: http://integral-options.blogspot.com/2009/12/most-antidepressants-miss-key-target-of.html


----------



## adamaus

can we do a poll on if Nardil has caused sexual side effects?


----------



## ChopSuey

adamaus said:


> can we do a poll on if Nardil has caused sexual side effects?


Of course it has sexual side effects. The higher the dose the more potent sexual dysfunction it gives. I can however get a boner, and last forever at even very high doses. I like it very much.


----------



## SA232

Here are three articles I gathered when looking up Nardil's sexual side effects:

Gutierrez MA, Stimmel GL. Management of and counseling for psychotropic drug-induced sexual dysfunction. Pharmacotherapy 1999;19_823-31

Dawn Knudsen, PharmD, CGP. How Medications Impact Libido. June 15, 2010

Tom WC. Drug-induced male sexual dysfunction. Pharmacist's Letter_Prescriber's Letter 2006;22(9)_220907

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3BBccfPNsX8TElSZmF6RDd1OE0/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## boostinggtir

ChopSuey said:


> Of course it has sexual side effects. The higher the dose the more potent sexual dysfunction it gives. I can however get a boner, and last forever at even very high doses. I like it very much.


Co sign.. though definite not at "thuristy" as before .. Let works out via what mechanism it causes this effect an see what we what options we may have.. or ideas people.. Nardil has given me my life back. End of story.. (regarding myself )

BTW. anyone have any issue articulating what they are trying to say at speed with nardil also short term memory loss? Another example is I tend type with less accuracy when hitting the keys on the key board. On parnate when highly dosed I could articulate at speed an think rapidly. Dopamine vs gaba blance I'd assume in laymans terms.. with nardil. potential remedy.


----------



## ChopSuey

boostinggtir said:


> Co sign.. though definite not at "thuristy" as before .. Let works out via what mechanism it causes this effect an see what we what options we may have.. or ideas people.. Nardil has given me my life back. End of story.. (regarding myself )
> 
> BTW. anyone have any issue articulating what they are trying to say at speed with nardil also short term memory loss? Another example is I tend type with less accuracy when hitting the keys on the key board. On parnate when highly dosed I could articulate at speed an think rapidly. Dopamine vs gaba blance I'd assume in laymans terms.. with nardil. potential remedy.


Viagra works wonderful, but expensive ****. I haven't noticed less accuracy, but short-term memory is definitely worse, but nothing major.


----------



## arkwelder

Nardil caused sexual side effects for me (anorgasmia), probably in much the same way that SSRIs do. It was very frustrating, because the libido was still there.


----------



## boostinggtir

arkwelder said:


> Nardil caused sexual side effects for me (anorgasmia), probably in much the same way that SSRIs do. It was very frustrating, because the libido was still there.


that goes away after a wile. had it the first time.


----------



## adamaus

a while? how long?


----------



## boostinggtir

A month or so.. Felt good to bust a nut again... But yes i waslike wtf when i couldnt at first..


----------



## ChopSuey

adamaus said:


> a while? how long?


It's very individual, sometimes the anorgasmia doesn't go away, the only option is to lower dose.


----------



## zendog78

Nardil makes you feel better than anything, it is actually very much euphoric during the first few weeks, I got eye wiggles sometimes when upping the dose, just like you do on MDMA (ecstasy).

You need to understand that this is not normal to feel this way. This is being high, not being well and if you make that feeling the yardstick for your mental health then your always going to be unhappy.

Some anxiety and sadness is a part of human existence - Nardil is almost opiate like in its ability to make everything feel just fine. 

That is a danger, a bad mindset to get into. 

But like heroin, it is just too hard to live with - gaining 30lbs despite NEVER eating junk food or soda.
I exercised most days strenuously but all that did was slow it down. The huge bloating made me look even fatter, I looked pregnant and wobbled when I walked. I'm a guy

Constantly farting, rock hard bowels, constantly ravenous for food, waking up overnight because your hungry even though you ate right before bed.. and when your hungry, it is like you are sick with hunger, as if your blood sugar is really low (when its not).

BUT

If you are in a huge hole, housebound, raging panic attacks, phobias, depression and anxiety (like I was) then go for it, because it can rapidly turn your life around and get things going again.
Once you can think properly again then you can make some good decisions about what you want to do. 

I know when I am sick, I don't realise how bad I am and how long it has been bad for until I take meds and feel what its like to be well again.

I hate taking medications but I think they will be with me on and off for the rest of my life - having some success with clomipramine at the moment


----------



## SA232

zendog78 said:


> Constantly farting, rock hard bowels, constantly ravenous for food, waking up overnight because your hungry even though you ate right before bed.. and when your hungry, it is like you are sick with hunger, as if your blood sugar is really low (when its not).


I can confirm every one of these side effects. zendog78 is not exaggerating. Also, there's something related to the weight gain: water retention, which makes you look bloated.


----------



## adamaus

Is fish oil good at helping improve Libido while on this Drug?


----------



## hworth

So if I'm understanding correctly, Nardil usually takes 6-8 weeks because..

Start Nardil (wait for MAO inhibition) --> MAO Inhibition, increased neurotransmitters temporarily (hypomania) ---> Waiting period, feeling crappy again (Brains auto receptors decrease neurotransmitters again) ---> Full Nardil therapeutic long term effects (because brains autoreceptors have been down regulated, so increased neurotransmitters again) 


.. Or something like this right?


----------



## adamaus

Anyone found their memory goes to **** on this?
Also, is fish oil good to help with sexual side effects?


----------



## SA232

For me, Nardil was most effective in high doses during the first few weeks. Started being effective after day 3, when I kicked it up to 90 way ahead of when I was "supposed" to (I wasn't able to find any literature justifying the slow build up).

And I think Nardil would have an overpowering effect on the libido.


----------



## puppy

adamaus said:


> Anyone found their memory goes to **** on this?
> Also, is fish oil good to help with sexual side effects?


Nope, tried fish oil (and some other supplements) but ended up getting a Cialis scrip. Definately get some funny looks from pharmacists considering my age, but the stuff is awesome.


----------



## adamaus

puppy said:


> Nope, tried fish oil (and some other supplements) but ended up getting a Cialis scrip. Definately get some funny looks from pharmacists considering my age, but the stuff is awesome.


Yes but cialis doesn't improve libido


----------



## SA232

Nardil doesn't completely eliminate libido. It puts a big dent in it _and_ it prevents a person from staying erect. I guess Cialis countered the latter.


----------



## adamaus

I read that for some people it goes away with time.
Is there any truth to this statement?


----------



## basuraeuropea

adamaus said:


> I read that for some people it goes away with time.
> Is there any truth to this statement?


there is truth to that statement - although no one will be able to tell you if it'll be true for you, so just hang in there and if it doesn't go away explore additional augmentation strategies that your physician has up his sleeve or discontinue the medication if the sexual side effects are much too intense for you, and it sounds as though they are.


----------



## Leeroythedeecoy

just stopping through. its been about a month since i have been on here. been busy. just want to say that i had every possible side effect from nardil and it got bad especially with the orthostatic hypotension. i would black out and wake up on the ground, sometimes with a nice bump or next to a bad situation had i been an inch or two over. but yeah, you name the side effect, i had it. but not anymore. i put up with it for a few months. what else was i going to do as an agoraphobic lol. but thats all done with now, so it does pass. just stick it out. its really ****ty and sometimes it just feels like its never going to end. but once it does, your going to feel amazing. i take 90mg a day. have been almost the whole time. as you are supposed to increase the dose at a fast pace. so yeah, i still have anxiety. i think it may be with me forever. but its no longer interfering much with my life. haven't had a panic attack in awhile, and i'm no longer agoraphobic. almost desperately seeking out new stuff to do now. so just pop your pills people. this is proven the be the best medication for people like us. just have to make it past those first few months and your golden.
*
*


----------



## adamaus

i have but i have to stop for 2 weeks then wait another 2 weeks to start again. will i get the side effects once i start back up again?


----------



## ChopSuey

adamaus said:


> i have but i have to stop for 2 weeks then wait another 2 weeks to start again. will i get the side effects once i start back up again?


Sadly, yes.


----------



## adamaus

****!!!! Anyone wanna buy a concert ticket then in aus melbourne?


----------



## xenodrop

Is this a good starting medication? I haven't taken any other anxiolytics but this one catches my eye. While it seems to have 'serious' side effects, and generally prescribed when 'all else fails', it seems to have a high success rate. 

I don't want to spend months on and off of different meds figuring out which is best for me, I just want one to work, and be done with SA. 

Would people recommend trying 'lighter' anxiolytics first?


----------



## puppy

Pretty much no psychiatrist will script you Nardil as a starting medication, so the point is moot.


----------



## xenodrop

puppy said:


> Pretty much no psychiatrist will script you Nardil as a starting medication, so the point is moot.


Well, it's still possible. I think it depends on the psychiatrist. I'm curious if it is a good starting option?


----------



## puppy

Personally I'd start with Paxil or Celexa. Safer and there won't be 5 months of hellish side-effects to put up with.

Edit: And I've seen friends have success with them.


----------



## adamaus

Anyone experienced sexual side effects on 30mg dose?


----------



## xenodrop

puppy said:


> Personally I'd start with Paxil or Celexa. Safer and there won't be 5 months of hellish side-effects to put up with.
> 
> Edit: And I've seen friends have success with them.


I'm actually trying to stay away from SSRI's due to the potential for long-term sexual side effects, since I have some permanent sexual side effects from 3 courses of Accutane (low libido, low sensation, difficulty getting erection).

While MAOI's seem to have sexual side effects it seems to be limited to anorgasmia, not low libido or or erection difficulties. In addition, it seems that the sexual side effects are not permanent and discontinue when the drug is discontinued as well.


----------



## adamaus

xenodrop said:


> I'm actually trying to stay away from SSRI's due to the potential for long-term sexual side effects, since I have some permanent sexual side effects from 3 courses of Accutane (low libido, low sensation, difficulty getting erection).
> 
> While MAOI's seem to have sexual side effects it seems to be limited to anorgasmia, not low libido or or erection difficulties. In addition, it seems that the sexual side effects are not permanent and discontinue when the drug is discontinued as well.


Well i could eventually get it up with a few supplements. But Yes theAnorgasmia is BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My ding a ling was so swollen in the morning from the night before trying so hard (no pun intended) to ejaculate.

It is NO FUN AT ALL


----------



## visualkeirockstar

Do they this stuff over the counter? I really don't want to go to the doctor.


----------



## ChopSuey

visualkeirockstar said:


> Do they this stuff over the counter? I really don't want to go to the doctor.


Nah, but you can try Walmart or closest gas station.


----------



## adamaus

this stuff is bad news i reckon for me anyway. i stoppede takin it and feels like my brain gets this cold freezing sensation but it doesnt last long maybe a 2-3 seconds topday it has been happening alot and ive just gone back on it 30mg

and when i stopped for 3 days i think it was 3 i was finally able to **** the next morning. when im on it i dont go toilet for 2 full days & it isnt even alot of poo.
my penis went back to its normal width and not some skinny dead bit of meat that did wierd pisses. i would always hit the top of the bottle after finishing urinating no matter how hard i tried to put it in the bowl.
and if they call street drugs designer drugs well **** me dead what are these called?


----------



## adamaus

i tried going for a jog before and my brain went all over the place i had to stop. scary ****. but i did end up in hospital witgh serotonin toxicity a while ago but im ok as far as ct scans and everything


----------



## Burnaby

puppy said:


> Personally I'd start with Paxil or Celexa. Safer and there won't be 5 months of hellish side-effects to put up with.
> 
> Edit: And I've seen friends have success with them.


I had excellent results with lexapro for over 6 years so if it works for you then its a easier drug to deal with than maoi's . After all these years it pooped on me and i even increased the dose for the 7th year but not much success and experimented with other drugs and no results and moved to nardil.


----------



## Chris John

*How likely is weight gain?*

Hi, I'm seeing my psychiatrist in two weeks and am thinking of trying out Nardil. My main concern with Nardil is the weight gain. Does everybody who takes Nardil gain weight? Also, how does it affect hunger? I've heard some people say Nardil cuts their appetite, where as others say it increases their appetite. Right now, I'm hungry pretty much all the time if I'm not on a stimulant. So, I really don't want to take a drug that's going to increase hunger.


----------



## RichardHalston

It's been a really rough year.. I'm on a ton of medications.. Some are helping me TREMENDOUSLY and some, I just can't tell anymore. My doctor is really good and will let me do Nardil but I wondered if I could still take the rest of my medications, or if they will have to be pulled when Nardil starts.

Adderall 20mg 3x a day
Ritalin 10mg 3x a day
Klonopin 1mg 2x a day (As needed)
Atarax
Propranolol 

Thanks for your input. I'm terrified of doing this but, I figure I have to go all the way in this journey.


----------



## ChopSuey

RichardHalston said:


> It's been a really rough year.. I'm on a ton of medications.. Some are helping me TREMENDOUSLY and some, I just can't tell anymore. My doctor is really good and will let me do Nardil but I wondered if I could still take the rest of my medications, or if they will have to be pulled when Nardil starts.
> 
> Adderall 20mg 3x a day
> Ritalin 10mg 3x a day
> Klonopin 1mg 2x a day (As needed)
> Atarax
> Propranolol
> 
> Thanks for your input. I'm terrified of doing this but, I figure I have to go all the way in this journey.


Klonopin and Atarax is no problem (but i can't see how anyone can benefit from being on it; Atarax).

Adderall and Ritalin can also be used, but they should be dosed carefully in the beginning so no bad reaction occurs. Propanolol can also be used, but not the first few months, since Nardil does usually cause hypotension, and propanolol can also cause the very same, and combined your BP has a risk of going dangerously low.


----------



## RichardHalston

Thanks a ton, ChopSuey! )

I've already gotten too scared and changed my mind about Nardil  Gonna have my medications a little more time.

The Atarax is actually great for my allergies and sinuses! It doesn't touch my anxiety though. My dr cant believe that it doesnt even make me tired. It works though just not on anxiety(for me)


----------



## GiftofGABA

ChopSuey, how long have you been on the nardil now? You're finding it works just as well as ever?

And mr.t how about an update. Same efficacy for you too?


----------



## ChopSuey

GiftofGABA said:


> ChopSuey, how long have you been on the nardil now? You're finding it works just as well as ever?
> 
> And mr.t how about an update. Same efficacy for you too?


About 10 months now, and it still works just as well.


----------



## GiftofGABA

I'm really encouraged by what you and mr t have to say in this forum re nardil. What the two of you seem to have is an earnest, careful and realistic approach to dosage and side effects. I'm going on it in a few weeks with a similar attitude and I'll share my experiences here on the forum.


----------



## jjyiss

i've been taking nardil since 2006. so its been 7 years now that i have been on nardil. does it still work for me? yes. i take 6 pills a day 90mg which is kind of up there. recently i have found that taking 1mg of clonazepam a day with nardil helps my anxiety and depression than just nardil by itself. 

side effects: insomnia, still for years. but its manageable. when i get sleepy i am able to sleep though. with nardil, it takes away the need to sleep 8 hours a day, or whatever. 

anorgasmia: used to be on and off, but now, its sticking with me. i've taken horny goat weed with minimal success. sex drive is gone, no libido even after 1 week. 

after 7 years of nardil, it still is a miracle drug for me, and a blessing.

edit: actually i made a post on nov 2012 where nardil pooped out on me. what eventually happened was that i tried parnate instead, which worked but gave me severe orthostatic hypotension so i had to quit that. i then tried ensam, but that didn't work period, but it was also on the lowest dose. then i was not on any meds for a few months... then got back on nardil again, and it started working as usual. 

just something to think about for you guys, if/when nardil poops out on you


----------



## adamaus

jjyiss said:


> i've been taking nardil since 2006. so its been 7 years now that i have been on nardil. does it still work for me? yes. i take 6 pills a day 90mg which is kind of up there. recently i have found that taking 1mg of clonazepam a day with nardil helps my anxiety and depression than just nardil by itself.
> 
> side effects: insomnia, still for years. but its manageable. when i get sleepy i am able to sleep though. with nardil, it takes away the need to sleep 8 hours a day, or whatever.
> 
> anorgasmia: used to be on and off, but now, its sticking with me. i've taken horny goat weed with minimal success. sex drive is gone, no libido even after 1 week.
> 
> after 7 years of nardil, it still is a miracle drug for me, and a blessing.
> 
> edit: actually i made a post on nov 2012 where nardil pooped out on me. what eventually happened was that i tried parnate instead, which worked but gave me severe orthostatic hypotension so i had to quit that. i then tried ensam, but that didn't work period, but it was also on the lowest dose. then i was not on any meds for a few months... then got back on nardil again, and it started working as usual.
> 
> just something to think about for you guys, if/when nardil poops out on you


A miracle drug but you have no libido?
how does that work
thats not a miracle in my eyes


----------



## jjyiss

no libido only when im .. trying to self heal. but if i am with a girl, then it my libido feels fine. 

anyways its weighing the pros and cons of the medication. i'd rather have no SA with low libido when im by myself, than severe SA and regular libido


----------



## adamaus

jjyiss said:


> no libido only when im .. trying to self heal. but if i am with a girl, then it my libido feels fine.
> 
> anyways its weighing the pros and cons of the medication. i'd rather have no SA with low libido when im by myself, than severe SA and regular libido


No libido when by yourself but with a girl your libido feels fine?
How does that work?
What dose are you on?


----------



## mark555666

I have tried so many things medications , is Nardil the hype worth it 

i'm hopeless


----------



## jjyiss

nardil is worth it, if you can fight through the initial side effects of insomnia, anorgasmia, urinary retention, constipation, ... my experience, the longer you are on nardil, the side effects disappate through time


----------



## ChopSuey

jjyiss said:


> nardil is worth it, if you can fight through the initial side effects of insomnia, anorgasmia, urinary retention, constipation, ... my experience, the longer you are on nardil, the side effects disappate through time


Yes, I've got 0 side effects now after almost a year on Nardil.


----------



## boostinggtir

.Hey Chop!!!.. What dose and timing are you doing on nardil?

Yea 90mg nardil is pretty brutal insomnia wise.. 75mg is far less rough sleep wise I found.


----------



## ChopSuey

I'm on 75/90mg most days, I've never had problems with insomnia, i guess I'm one of the lucky ones in that aspect.


----------



## TiredTracy

Years ago, the first anti-depressant I ever tried was the most effective for making me feel at ease around people. I could not tolerate the side effects. It was not Nardil but maybe was in that family. I'm very excited to ask for a prescription for this.

A question, or a plea for reassurance maybe, The way I understand it, there is very little chance of the supplements I use interacting: A super, ultra multi (lots of B6) that contains no yeast or wheat, and a fish oil blend. They concern me a little because some of the acids and stuff have more letters than the English alphabet. I have no idea what they are, but I doubt they are smoked, fermented, etc.


----------



## GiftofGABA

My understanding is that Nardil uses vitamin B6 as a substrate rendering both molecules inert. So supplementing with excess B6 might conceivably exhaust Nardil by "using it up". On the other hand because Nardil reacts with it there's a chance that you could go deficient in B6, so supplementation might be prudent. The idea is to find the right amount to supplement with. I believe someone here suggested 2mg/day which to me sounds sane. I wouldn't do a mega B-complex thing at all. Whether or not it contains wheat etc.. is of no consequence in this context.


----------



## boostinggtir

GiftofGABA said:


> My understanding is that Nardil uses vitamin B6 as a substrate rendering both molecules inert. So supplementing with excess B6 might conceivably exhaust Nardil by "using it up". On the other hand because Nardil reacts with it there's a chance that you could go deficient in B6, so supplementation might be prudent. The idea is to find the right amount to supplement with. I believe someone here suggested 2mg/day which to me sounds sane. I wouldn't do a mega B-complex thing at all. Whether or not it contains wheat etc.. is of no consequence in this context.


yes so I've tried this on an off. It tends to make me fell not great ie lethargic/ irritable. (more so then norm) I fell is not pro nardil enhancing, for me anyway. It's kind of a shame as nardil gives me mild prolactin side effects which causes me the nipple swelling (mild)

I hoping to get my knowlege of nardils mechanisms undering and remedy these sides. I winder if the libido reduction is LH related. Will see what my bloods show. (we need bloods not guessing games)

There is not a good protocol for nardil sides. There should be abetter attempt at one, given how man users we now take the drug.


----------



## TiredTracy

GiftofGABA, thanks so much. I'll ditch it and pick up something closer to 2 mg.

You are probably going to think I am insane for saying this, but because of your screen name - I was an alcoholic for 30 years. I quit drinking using baclofen (it's a GABA antagonist, I think). That's another reason I'm excited about Nardil. I'm closing in on this trip-wired brain of mine. 

Thanks again for the head's up.


----------



## ChopSuey

GiftofGABA said:


> My understanding is that Nardil uses vitamin B6 as a substrate rendering both molecules inert. So supplementing with excess B6 might conceivably exhaust Nardil by "using it up". On the other hand because Nardil reacts with it there's a chance that you could go deficient in B6, so supplementation might be prudent. The idea is to find the right amount to supplement with. I believe someone here suggested 2mg/day which to me sounds sane. I wouldn't do a mega B-complex thing at all. Whether or not it contains wheat etc.. is of no consequence in this context.


A lot of people seems overly concerned about supplementing B6 with Nardil. But it is in most cases not necessary to do so. Eating a normal healthy diet will give you enough B6. There's been very very few reports of B6 deficiency with Nardil, and then the consequence was temporary peripheral neuropathy. Taking as much as 100mg B6 daily doesn't pose a problem either as I know a person that has been on Nardil for well over 25 years, and he's been using 100mg B6 supplements for periods.

So no need to worry about this at all.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Is it possible for Nardil to start working after only having used it for 3 days?

My heart is no longer pounding and I can actually make eye contact with people when I talk to them. Haven't been able to do this in about 12 months.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Btw, I take 3x15mg a day. I usually take 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon.


----------



## GiftofGABA

You're probably in the hypomanic stage of nardil. A lot of people here report this early on. It's a transient feelgood stage where you're basically high. The true effects don't start until longer term chemical alterations in your brain take effect such as downregulation of various receptors. This could take 6+ weeks to happen.


----------



## SA232

GiftofGABA said:


> You're probably in the hypomanic stage of nardil. A lot of people here report this early on. It's a transient feelgood stage where you're basically high. The true effects don't start until longer term chemical alterations in your brain take effect such as downregulation of various receptors. This could take 6+ weeks to happen.


I made a thread on bluelight.ru asking about the long-term action that applies to certain drugs and it got some great responses (see below).

By the way, I myself experienced the transient stage you speak of -- and that was the extent of my experience, as I decided to stop taking it. What exactly are the "true effects" that eventually manifest? I thought the "high" _was_ the effect of the drug.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...depressants)-take-days-weeks-before-they-work


----------



## boostinggtir

Nardil took me three months plus, both times... do some research. And the pre ture effect sides a heavy... many giveup before had due to. About two months down the track, you get a massive high for two days. It rocks. Then a few weeks after that point, this is the true effect point... You shouldn't be asking this; you're doing a little reading on the journals.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

I definitely don't feel "high" , or like im on any drug at all. It's only day 5 on Nardil, but I thought the feeling of Nardil is that you don't feel like you're on anything?

Previously I was taking Klonopin, but I still had issues holding a conversation. Also, I've only had SAS for about 1 year, and it was due to some very specific triggers.


----------



## GiftofGABA

Interesting. I've heard that characterization before, like it feels like you're not on anything but with an amelioration of SA symptoms, but more usually it's accompanied with *some* boost in mood. Hey if it's working, it's working. The only caveat is that if it appears to stop working very early on, then that is usually just a transient effect. You want to give Nardil a really decent trial which usually means around 2 months or 6+ weeks at a high dose like 60-75mg. A high dose usually means the dose where you start experiencing orthostatic hypotension. Paraphrasing ChopSuey, this effect correlates closely with therapeutic efficacy. Each human body is its own science experiment though, there are exceptions to many rules.


----------



## boostinggtir

GiftofGABA said:


> Interesting. I've heard that characterization before, like it feels like you're not on anything but with an amelioration of SA symptoms, but more usually it's accompanied with *some* boost in mood. Hey if it's working, it's working. The only caveat is that if it appears to stop working very early on, then that is usually just a transient effect. You want to give Nardil a really decent trial which usually means around 2 months or 6+ weeks at a high dose like 60-75mg. A high dose usually means the dose where you start experiencing orthostatic hypotension. Paraphrasing ChopSuey, this effect correlates closely with therapeutic efficacy. Each human body is its own science experiment though, there are exceptions to many rules.


Yea agreed about the hypotention. I recall telling Chop he didn't know what he was talking about, though I ignorantly mistook hypo for fatiuge. It's not apparent the chop is a know what he's talking about after reading a few of his posts.

I'm currenly doing well on 75/90mg. Am still tweeking a few things. 
I find *magnisum *is great for sleep and focus. (anti add attributes etc) Though not the cheap ciratrate type, as it isn't absorbed well. Though I keep some around, for a mild laxative effect.

*B12(multi)

Fish oil 
*
*PS Short term memory issue/side? *Cortisol reduction. Cheap as from *Soy lecithen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylserine

* 
*Table 1.* PS content in different foods.[23]
Food PS Content in mg/100 g Soy lecithin 5900 [24] Bovine brain 713 Atlantic mackerel 480 Chicken heart 414 Atlantic herring 360 Eel 335 Offal (average value) 305 Pig's spleen 239

*Next supplment added will be these two.

Post from DATBETRUE his form gave me my life back.

May people here could also benefit from the below info. I am yet to try it.

*


 *DatBtrue* 







Step One ************************************************

Join DateAug 2009Posts13,671

*







Iodine Concentrate - energy, thyroid metabolism & mood *

I've seen enough & read enough anecdotal evidence to form the belief that a few iodine drops that amount to between the US RDA & the upper limit have benefit for many types of people. Some use a drop or two pre-bed and feel refreshed. Others dose a few drops a day and feel a little more energy. Others can lift mood or depressive symptoms from a few drops.

I can vouch for the latter. My rev T3 is chronically high due to whatever my body is fighting I suppose. As a result one of the things that happens is a more sluggish neuro-chemiclal support. A few drops helps tremendously for periods where little else helps.

I don't believe in mega-dosing. I do not believe in using the large amounts others promote. I do not believe iodine should be used to overcome genuine thyroid problems. What I believe in is this - *Incremental Betterment*. If something makes you feel a little better than one should strive to milk that dose to keep that little bit of better. Instead too many reach for more and over do it. The body will react and counter.

As an example. One can try to increase dopamine. A very strong increaser is N-acetyl Tyrosine. If you use if for more than 2 days the body will reduce dopamine activity and you may suffer a few days of lower dopamine. You could approach this by using L-phenylalanine which is upstream and will be metabolized readily. This will have a subtle impact on dopamine and could be used every day. The next level would be a mix of D & L phenylalanine. This compound will not be so quickly metabolized and will support tyrosine a dopamine precursor. You could use this maybe every other day to every third day. Tyrosine would be the next step up. It breaks down quickly. A longer lasting version is the n-acetyl version. This will result in significant dopamine activity but takes some control away from the body.

It is better to let the body make the end point decisions and only feed the process well upstream. When you use iodine within the ranges discussed here you may end up supporting thyroid activity in a subtle way that benefits rather than overpowers it. Although most of us have the ability to deal with excess iodine it isn't something we should force the body to do... some people do not have the proper feedback mechanism to adequately deal with excess iodine. People can become hyper or hypo-thyroid with over use.

I haven't tested a lot of brands but the one I believe to be really good is - Iodine Concentrate made by Eidon Ionic Minerals which is potassium iodide liquid.

Several people who have mega-dosed with Iodoral report getting the same benefit by using just a few drops of this iodine. I can say I feel it well with 4 drops. Each 2 drops = 225mcgs (150% RDA)

*Source:* Food and Nutrition Board, Institute of Medicine, U.S. National Academy of Sciences (2001)










Setting an upper limit for iodine ingestion has been more difficult. The Food and Nutrition Board recommended 1100 mg/day as a safe dose for adults. Most people can tolerate much higher doses without apparent ill effects. Large amounts of iodine inhibit the thyroid's ability to make thyroid hormone, producing goiter and hypothyroidism, but many people can tolerate several milligrams per day. People with autoimmune thyroid diseases, such as Graves' disease and Hashimoto's disease, and many of their relatives are more sensitive to iodine excess. - *Iodine Deficiency*, _John T. Dunn_, Encyclopedia of Endocrine Diseases, Volume 3. ß 2004​
Endorsed by DatBtrue​

So a person without underlying condtions that would make them overly sensitive to iodine levels could "possibly" handle upwards of 2mg per day in your estimation?​
 Reply  Reply With Quote


----------



## GiftofGABA

New question: who here has tried using oxymetazoline topical decongestant (dristan, drixoral, afrin, etc..) while on Nardil? There is conflicting information about this out there. My pharmacist says it's a no-no but I suspect it's okay in low doses. Any opinions?


----------



## puppy

GiftofGABA said:


> New question: who here has tried using oxymetazoline topical decongestant (dristan, drixoral, afrin, etc..) while on Nardil? There is conflicting information about this out there. My pharmacist says it's a no-no but I suspect it's okay in low doses. Any opinions?


I use it all the time and I'm still here to tell the tale. I don't think much actually makes it to your bloodstream.


----------



## GiftofGABA

Very useful, thanks!


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

The Nardil is definitely working, but I am getting SOOOO tired throughout the day. Even my family notices. 

I find myself taking 3 naps a day, and I even fell asleep in the shower and & at the club (when I went to the bathroom). lol. that's never happened before in my life.

Is there any strong supplement over-the-counter to help boost my energy levels? My psychiatrist went on vacation for 4 weeks.


----------



## puppy

Not really, you just have to tough it out I'm afraid. Took about 3 months to go away for me.


----------



## boostinggtir

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> The Nardil is definitely working, but I am getting SOOOO tired throughout the day. Even my family notices.
> 
> I find myself taking 3 naps a day, and I even fell asleep in the shower and & at the club (when I went to the bathroom). lol. that's never happened before in my life.
> 
> Is there any strong supplement over-the-counter to help boost my energy levels? My psychiatrist went on vacation for 4 weeks.


ckly

You can black out quickly on nardil, consuming alcohol.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Wow. No wonder. I got kicked out of the club and I only had like 4 drinks.I could barely even walk (thank god i didn't drive). I was on Xanax too. The security guard noticed I knocked out in the bathroom. 

I can usually drink pretty heavily, but I'm starting to think 1 (drink) an hour is seriously more than enough...


----------



## scaredtolive

**** this **** I'm going back on nardil. I hope I get that initial couple days of euphoria like last time.


----------



## boostinggtir

Quick note guys... you want keep nardil realted blood pressure at 100... I feel great now. I was at 80 hypotention as hell. I felt like ****. Dissy, slow, weak.


----------



## hworth

boostinggtir said:


> Quick note guys... you want keep nardil realted blood pressure at 100... I feel great now. I was at 80 hypotention as hell. I felt like ****. Dissy, slow, weak.


How/when do you measure your blood pressure to get an accurate measurement? Like immediately after dosing? I take all 60mg at once in the AM and my blood pressure is definitely way low which I think is making me feel worse but it kind of fluctuates depending on if I'm drinking a lot of water or taking salt tabs so I'm not sure how to get a measurement of when it's at its normal baseline level (worst)


----------



## sasdawg

Are you a doctor?


----------



## hworth

sasdawg said:


> Are you a doctor?


Lol what..?


----------



## sasdawg

I meant to ask


OP not you.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Do any of you guys have any of the following side effects on Nardil?

1) Very decreased sexual desire + much longer to ejaculate
2) Much harder to poop sometimes/upset stomachs (although blowing nasty farts come more naturally)

Do you guys take anything for #1 or #2? 

Also, I've been taking 3x15mg a day for the last month. My doctor said to increase to 90mg, but I kind of don't want to because of how tired/sleepy I get throughout the day. Thoughts? I'm a 25 y/o male with no previous medical problems.


----------



## sasdawg

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Do any of you guys have any of the following side effects on Nardil?
> 
> 1) Very decreased sexual desire + much longer to ejaculate
> 2) Much harder to poop sometimes/upset stomachs (although blowing nasty farts come more naturally)
> 
> Do you guys take anything for #1 or #2?
> 
> Also, I've been taking 3x15mg a day for the last month. My doctor said to increase to 90mg, but I kind of don't want to because of how tired/sleepy I get throughout the day. Thoughts? I'm a 25 y/o male with no previous medical problems.


typical to have this and also its good to have extended orgasm climax if you're sexually active...


----------



## hworth

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Do any of you guys have any of the following side effects on Nardil?
> 
> 1) Very decreased sexual desire + much longer to ejaculate
> 2) Much harder to poop sometimes/upset stomachs (although blowing nasty farts come more naturally)
> 
> Do you guys take anything for #1 or #2?
> 
> Also, I've been taking 3x15mg a day for the last month. My doctor said to increase to 90mg, but I kind of don't want to because of how tired/sleepy I get throughout the day. Thoughts? I'm a 25 y/o male with no previous medical problems.


In response to your questions,

#1) Yes and definitely yes lol
#2)I haven't had that much constipation but it has been a slight issue maybe one or two times.. I just eat a lot of fiber and try to drink water whenever possible. I get the Nardil gas too hahah 

Oh and whatever you do DO NOT f****** increase your dose to 90 straight from 45. That's frankly a horrible idea and it sounds like your doctor is an idiot when it comes to MAOIs just like mine was... Here's the advice I give to everyone:

-Look at Mr. t's Nardil threads on starting up Nardil. Take it slow titration dosage up, it's good you've been on 45mg a while but if you're already having those side effects than definitely go to only 60mg and stay there for 4-6 weeks. This is generally the dose that Nardil kicks in at fully for most (including me) and how long it takes for that to happen. After the 6 weeks, you may be able to drop to 45mg and keep the therapeutic effects with lessened side effects.. I would only increase to 75/90 at this point only if you haven't been getting any hypotension, at this point I had/have mild to moderate hypotension which isn't too severe and no falling over in the middle of the night or anything but the fatigue is there and if you reach hypotension it's an indicator you're at a therapeutic dose.

-Secondly, if you aren't already, switch to GAVIS brand nardil. Don't ask me why it's so much better than the Pfizer/greenstone version, just take my word for it and change ASAP. Mr. T and I plus I think a few others both experienced really bad/weird moods on that version of Nardil and Gavis is honestly 10 times better both potency wise (60mg of Gavis feels like 75 of greenstone/Pfizer) and side effects are less in my opinion.

You're on your way to remission! Just bump it up to 60 and switch brands if you aren't on Gavis already, 6 weeks will fly by and then you can drop to 45 probably and be gone from SAS like the other legends


----------



## SA232

hworth said:


> Oh and whatever you do DO NOT f****** increase your dose to 90 straight from 45. That's frankly a horrible idea and it sounds like your doctor is an idiot when it comes to MAOIs just like mine was...


I started on 15 (day 1), took 45 the next day, and went up to 90 by day 3. On some days, within my first week of being on it, I took 90 twice in the day. I did this because I failed to find justification for the step-up process, and reasoned that the same way one can simply take a large dose of, say, an opiate or caffeine, and just get more intense effects (within the window of safe dosage, of course), there's no reason one shouldn't be able to simply take a large dose of Nardil and avoid the step-up process. I was fine. I didn't experience any adverse effects from the Nardil at all. So, how do you justify calling it a horrible idea?

Just for re-affirmation, it _has_ been established that a high enough dose needs to be taken for these types of drugs to be effective. Of course, the following quote was followed by an indication of the step-up process, but once again, they don't provide an explanation as to why the step-up process is so necessary.

Failure to understand the required effective dosages of MAOIs led to many early treatment failures and fueled clinicians' perception that drugs in this class were ineffective. The senior author had to hospitalize a depressed man who had failed to improve on 30 mg/d of phenelzine for 10 days. The author later learned that a dose of more than 1 mg/kg per day [~72 mg f or a 160 lb person -SA232] for 3 to 4 weeks was necessary for response.

Cole J, Bodkin A. MAO inhibitors: An option worth trying in treatment-resistant cases. Current Psychiatry, Vol. 1, No. 6, June 2002


----------



## ChopSuey

The slow titration process is just there as to evaluate how the medication works per se; so no rare dangerous side effects occur. Also a slow titration schedule ensures that one gets to adapt to the more common side effects at a slower pace, rather than get slapped hard in the face by hypotension, constipation, insomnia etc.

But some people can handle the medication better than others and can pretty much ignore this, myself included.

But for the general public it is better to start slow and work your way up. 

As far as therapeutic effect is affected; literature states that at the initial 1-2 weeks of starting Nardil the dose is not that important as the body isn't able to fully utilize the inhibiting effect of the MAOI. Why this is the case I'm not sure. But according to this taking 45mg the first week, or taking 120mg shouldn't make any difference as far as % of inhibited MAO is concerned.


----------



## SA232

ChopSuey said:


> As far as therapeutic effect is affected; literature states that at the initial 1-2 weeks of starting Nardil the dose is not that important as the body isn't able to fully utilize the inhibiting effect of the MAOI. Why this is the case I'm not sure. But according to this taking 45mg the first week, or taking 120mg shouldn't make any difference as far as % of inhibited MAO is concerned.


Thank you for that explanation.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that once I took the 90, I undeniably felt it. And I continued to feel definite effects when I dosed.


----------



## ChopSuey

SA232 said:


> Thank you for that explanation.
> 
> Perhaps I should have mentioned that once I took the 90, I undeniably felt it. And I continued to feel definite effects when I dosed.


Yes, what you felt was the GABA stimulation & Nardil being a weak releasing agent for the three major monoamines, I do as well. But it is not related to MAO inhibition.

I started straight at 75/90mg, it is not recommended. But it worked very well for me.


----------



## SA232

Interesting. Thank you for the info. You're pretty well informed.


----------



## jjyiss

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> The Nardil is definitely working, but I am getting SOOOO tired throughout the day. Even my family notices.
> 
> I find myself taking 3 naps a day, and I even fell asleep in the shower and & at the club (when I went to the bathroom). lol. that's never happened before in my life.
> 
> Is there any strong supplement over-the-counter to help boost my energy levels? My psychiatrist went on vacation for 4 weeks.


you could try taking parnate instead. everyones body is different. i have tried parnate in the past, and get the same tiredness as you in the daytime. so i swtcihed back to nardil, and the tiredness went away. maybe its different in your case.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Do the sexual side effects decrease after a while? I like the pre-longed ejaculation, but I don't like my lack of desire to have sex anymore 

Also, would taking something like Nardil effect my sperm in any way? Like my ability to have a child?


----------



## ChopSuey

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Do the sexual side effects decrease after a while? I like the pre-longed ejaculation, but I don't like my lack of desire to have sex anymore
> 
> Also, would taking something like Nardil effect my sperm in any way? Like my ability to have a child?


For me the lack of libido is gone and the prolonged ejaculation has lessened as well, but it's not totally gone.

And Nardil won't affect your soldiers in any way.


----------



## SA232

ChopSuey said:


> Yes, what you felt was the GABA stimulation & Nardil being a weak releasing agent for the three major monoamines, I do as well. But it is not related to MAO inhibition.


Do you have any literature that goes into this, by the way?


----------



## boostinggtir

SA232 said:


> Do you have any literature that goes into this, by the way?


Hey!! Do you take your 75-90mg spread across the day? or do you take it all in one dose? If you don't mind sharing. And a reasoning for why.. Cheers


----------



## SA232

I'm not on Nardil anymore, but I took it all at once, simply based on the fact that with other drugs, it's generally best to take your desired dose all at once, otherwise you won't get the desired effect and if you dose multiple times, every dose other than the first dose will be diluted by tolerance. This was just my reasoning; I'm not declaring it as fact.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Yeah I'd love to hear more about how people take their dosage. 

For me, I can't spread 3 pills throughout the day or else I'll forget to take them. 

However, maybe taking 3 spread out might make me less tired. What have your guys' experiences been?


----------



## ChopSuey

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Yeah I'd love to hear more about how people take their dosage.
> 
> For me, I can't spread 3 pills throughout the day or else I'll forget to take them.
> 
> However, maybe taking 3 spread out might make me less tired. What have your guys' experiences been?


I take 5-7 pills each day when i wake up, been doing that for almost a year and it works good. In the beginning i took the dose before sleep, but when the fatigue disappeared i switched tactic.


----------



## CD700

ChopSuey said:


> I take 5-7 pills each day when i wake up, been doing that for almost a year and it works good. In the beginning i took the dose before sleep, but when the fatigue disappeared i switched tactic.


Spreading the dose apart can help the killer gas


----------



## ChopSuey

CD700 said:


> Spreading the dose apart can help the killer gas


I don't get that much gas anymore, but spreading out the dose can help with a lot of the side effects.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

For those of you guys who take it at night, have you ever not done it because of a night of drinking???

I'm worried about starting at night-time because sometimes on Fri/Saturday I'll do a decent amount of drinking. Not sure about taking 60mg of Nardil right after that...


----------



## ChopSuey

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> For those of you guys who take it at night, have you ever not done it because of a night of drinking???
> 
> I'm worried about starting at night-time because sometimes on Fri/Saturday I'll do a decent amount of drinking. Not sure about taking 60mg of Nardil right after that...


Mixing Nardil and alcohol, even large amounts doesn't matter for me. And you don't want to take Nardil at night for very long, just until the fatigue lessens. Otherwise you'll miss out on the GABA boost, which is at its strongest the first 12 hours.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Thanks.

I recently bumped up my dosage to 60mg and now I can't ejaculate... have literally been trying for 4 days. Not sure what to do - anyone?


----------



## ChopSuey

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I recently bumped up my dosage to 60mg and now I can't ejaculate... have literally been trying for 4 days. Not sure what to do - anyone?


Time will fix that, or if you're in a hurry.. dopamine enhancing medications are sometimes used to lessen that.


----------



## boostinggtir

ChopSuey said:


> I take 5-7 pills each day when i wake up, been doing that for almost a year and it works good. In the beginning i took the dose before sleep, but when the fatigue disappeared i switched tactic.


Thank you. I'll now be emulating your dosing protocol. Though I have found the GABA (or other mechanism) helps me go to sleep. Though Like you say, regarding most sides, they fade.(after a long *** time) My insomnia has faded significantly, I think.



ChopSuey said:


> Mixing Nardil and alcohol, even large amounts doesn't matter for me. And you don't want to take Nardil at night for very long, just until the fatigue lessens. *Otherwise you'll miss out on the GABA boost, which is at its strongest the first 12 hours*.


Cheers!! You do miss a therapeutic feeling from taking at night / 12 GABA... Where did you get that tidbit of info? I now makes total scene to me. Thanks for you contributions.


----------



## Golf72

Hello Folks

I am new to the forum, and pleased to see this Nardil thread is quite active.

I started Nardil in 1986 and have been on it ever since. For the last 20 years have been on 30mg per day along with 1.5mg per day of clonazepam.

My initial symptoms started with anxiety (feeling of shaking, but not "really" shaking). The best I can describe how I felt was that it was like stepping of a curb and almost getting hit by a car, and then quickly stepping back. That anxious feeling that comes over you after such a situation was with me 24/7. I had lots of facial flushing and feeling of shakiness. I was also irritable and had a hard time concentrating and sleeping.

I suffered through with the anxiety/depression symptoms for a bit and just happened to be back home and talking with my older brother (we lived on opposite sides of the country). When I told him of my symptoms he could not believe it. He went through much of the same and had been through a few meds and his current psychiatrist had him on Nardil, which was working for him. My brother's psychiatrist was also a friend of his, and my brother got me in to see him the next day. The psychiatrist said that due to the possibility of common chemistry and common symptoms between my brother and I, that it would make sense to start me on Nardil right away to see if it worked. I worked well and continues to do so. So, I guess I may be one of the very few that actually "started" with Nardil.

For some reason I seem to have a lower maintenance level (30mg per day) than most people, but when I have upped my dosage the side effects have not been nice. Water retention and insomnia being the worst, and this while only on 45mg per day. One thing that worked fro me was to ride through any back weeks or low points and NOT change my maintenance level. I know that strategy does not work for everyone, but it worked for me.

The other thing I can share is that when symptoms stated to return while I was on Nardil there was never any rhyme or reason or linkages to current or recent life stressors.

In the last 25 years I have seen a psychiatrist only once. In the small community I lived in we had a revolving door of locum GP doctors and I had little problem getting a year's refill of Nardil and Clonazepam. Some doctors were worried about Nardil because they knew it was a last resort drug with scary interactions. If they wanted to try and get me to try and switch to Prozac or Mannerix or anything else, I started taking about half-lives and clearance periods (going off *and *going back on Nardil), etc. This resulted in a new prescription for Nardil......lol

It is not that the locums did not care, it is just that they recognized that the medication was working, that I was a aware of the interactions, so there was really no need to mess with what was working.

I sought this forum because I have recently had some frustrating bouts of onset and termination insomnia, and I am trying to determine the role (if any) that Nardil may be playing in this.

I am 53 and now retired and plan to try going off Nardil in a few months. I have tried to taper off Nardil about 6 times over the years and each time the symptoms came back. My next attempt to go off probably will not end well but I don't want to give up hope that I can be medication-free.

With my over 25 years of experience with Nardil you would think I might have lots to share on the interactions. I must admit, though, that due to my low dosage, I have not had any ill effects related to food interactions. That said, I don't go near soya sauce, old cheese, or hard liquor and a few other things. I read a few posts where people are on 90 to 120mg per day and I just can't comprehend the extent of the side effects these folks must be dealing with.

Hope to interact with many of you on this forum.

Thx


----------



## GiftofGABA

Very interesting post, thanks for that. So you want to go off because of onset and termination insomnia. That means it's hard to fall asleep and you wake up too early, correct? So what's going on, you sleep for X number of hours after having trouble falling asleep and then you wake up too early?

Can I ask you something? You said:



> I[sic] worked well and continues to do so


So the Nardil is still effective for you? then why go off it? Why not try adding a z-drug?

Now how bad was the anxiety when you first went on Nardil? Do you think you can go off it safely and be okay? I ask because there are many sad stories of people discontinuing an antidepressant here only for their lives to pick up exactly where they were before they ever went on the medication. So expect to go straight back to where you were before you started with Nardil, anxiety-wise. I don't know if you're familiar with David Foster Wallace but he's a very well known writer who was on Nardil for a good 20 years or so and went off it to try newer meds. He ended up hanging himself. Now his original condition prior to drug therapy _was_ dire but I use this as an example to show that if you're only experiencing relatively minor side-effects it may be worth trying to augment the Nardil with a sleep agent instead of coming off it completely thinking you're somehow cured of the original symptoms or being concerned about the stigma of "being on something". It has been a long time since you experienced the original anxiety and you probably forget how nasty it was. Just some food for thought. Feel free to friend me if you have some questions about this.


----------



## Golf72

GiftofGABA said:


> Very interesting post, thanks for that. So you want to go off because of onset and termination insomnia. That means it's hard to fall asleep and you wake up too early, correct? So what's going on, you sleep for X number of hours after having trouble falling asleep and then you wake up too early?
> .


Yes. Going to bed at midnight and not getting to sleep until 2, 3 or 4AM. *Or*, falling asleep fairly quickly and awaking at 4 or 5AM and not getting back to sleep. Odd part is when I awake at 4 or 5 I am still tired but am too alert to fall back to sleep.



GiftofGABA said:


> Can I ask you something? You said:
> 
> So the Nardil is still effective for you? then why go off it? Why not try adding a z-drug?
> 
> .


I will look too a z-drug if I have to, but would rather not go down that road unless the insomnia is persistent.



GiftofGABA said:


> Now how bad was the anxiety when you first went on Nardil? Do you think you can go off it safely and be okay? I ask because there are many sad stories of people discontinuing an antidepressant here only for their lives to pick up exactly where they were before they ever went on the medication. So expect to go straight back to where you were before you started with Nardil, anxiety-wise. I don't know if you're familiar with David Foster Wallace but he's a very well known writer who was on Nardil for a good 20 years or so and went off it to try newer meds. He ended up hanging himself. Now his original condition prior to drug therapy _was_ dire but I use this as an example to show that if you're only experiencing relatively minor side-effects it may be worth trying to augment the Nardil with a sleep agent instead of coming off it completely thinking you're somehow cured of the original symptoms or being concerned about the stigma of "being on something". It has been a long time since you experienced the original anxiety and you probably forget how nasty they it was. Just some food for thought. Feel free to friend me if you have some questions about this.


Anxiety was bad enough to remember how it felt, that is for sure. I was not suicidal, but also could not envision living the way I felt forever.

I understand what you are saying here. I am not worried about any stigma about being on these meds. I am 53 and have spent more that 1/2 my life on Nardil. It is no big deal. My thinking is that the only way to find out if my symptoms where/are permanent or whether they were a product of a certain time in life, is to try and go off the meds.

Part of this is also now being in a position to get some professional advice as I try and do this. I also don't have employment responsibilities since I retired. That said, I may very well conclude exactly what you have pointed out - why go off something that has proven to work. Also, my brother went off Nardil a few years for and switched to Wellbutrin. That was successful for him.

My fear in any attempt to go off Nardil is that in going back on Nardil, I cant find the same effect or maintenance level. That is a big concern.

I would be pleased to friend you, if you let me know how I do that...lol

PS. Not sure what others have experienced before going off Nardil, but in the first couple of days in going off I have never felt better, never had better concentration, and never felt more positive. Then the crash comes.

PPS. I would not characterize my symptoms as SAS related. I am mostly on this site because of the focus on Nardil discussion. My symptoms are more GAD/Depression. Hope that is ok to still post here.


----------



## GiftofGABA

Hello fellow Canuck  Yes, of course you can just have GAD/Depression here. Many members do only have those symptoms.

Nice post you made. I wish I could tell you what would happen if you go off the Nardil completely but I"m afraid no one knows. I _do_ think it's likely you could derive the same therapeutic value upon readministration but it's not guaranteed. Everyone is different and I believe that for David Foster Wallace, he was unable to get back to the same place (after 15-20 years+). This is only one example though and you should not take that to heart too much. There are also other medications that work as a possible hedge should _something_ go wrong and you mentioned your brother's success with Wellbutrin.

Your euphoria upon discontinuation was not atypical for an antidepressant but isn't suggestive of some long lasting benefit as I believe you recognize. You will probably go through a certain hell getting off the Nardil and I say why bother when something is working so perfectly for you.

The z-drugs are pure sleep agents. They are GABA-A agonists which hit a place close to where benzodiazepines (Xanax, Valium, etc) land on those types of nerves but lack the anti-anxiety inducing effects of those substances. They are purely for sleep and I wouldn't be too reluctant to augment your Nardil with them.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I have friended you and you are welcome to message me at your disposal.


----------



## CD700

Possibly not the best idea going off MAOI, especially if its helping

I went off Parnate because it wasn't doing anything and I decided to give it another try about a year later but this time with no alcohol, which I figured may have been a reason for the " gold standard", " "works when nothing else does " not helping me the first time around.

I didn't really have issues with side effects on Parnate the first time even when I got up to 80mg and added Nortryptline but my second trial of Parnate was a much different experience. I couldn't get above 30mg and was getting all the s/e plus bad hypertension. 

I have read that this can be a common occurrence for MAOI the second time around so it might be worth thinking about.


----------



## Golf72

CD700 said:


> Possibly not the best idea going off MAOI, especially if its helping
> 
> I went off Parnate because it wasn't doing anything and I decided to give it another try about a year later but this time with no alcohol, which I figured may have been a reason for the " gold standard", " "works when nothing else does " not helping me the first time around.
> 
> I didn't really have issues with side effects on Parnate the first time even when I got up to 80mg and added Nortryptline but my second trial of Parnate was a much different experience. I couldn't get above 30mg and was getting all the s/e plus bad hypertension.
> 
> I have read that this can be a common occurrence for MAOI the second time around so it might be worth thinking about.


 good points. I am already reconsidering. thx


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Oh man. I've been on Nardil for 2 months now, and I'm feeling all of the side effects:

-Severe constipation
-No ability to ejaculate (i'm a Male)
-Drowziness + Tiredness
-Dizziness right after taking my dose in the morning

I recently bumped up to 60mg from 45mg/day about 2 weeks ago. Does anyone recommend going back down to 45mg/day??? Or are there any other supplements?

Not sure if I should just try to wait out all of this.. and if so, how long do I wait for...

I'm most concerned about the ejaculation side effect.


----------



## GiftofGABA

I'd wait it out if you can possibly stand it. Two weeks on 60mg isn't enough to realize its full therapeutic value.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Looks like the severe constipation has led me to gain 12 lbs over the last 2 months.

I've always been a really skinny guy (6'1 , 135 lbs) that couldn't really gain weight, but now I'm 150 lbs out of nowhere. Don't mind the added weight (As I was trying to bulk up), but I def don't want to get to 200 lbs...not sure what to do..


----------



## GiftofGABA

Use a laxative. Try taking 1500mg of magnesium (a good kind, not magnesium oxide). Then use 500mg per day after that. More powerful stuff is around if that doesn't work.


----------



## Caedmon

Anyone, anywhere: can you* lose weight* on Nardil? I mean, not just avoid weight gain. Actually lose it?

And I'm sure the answer is 'yes' if given the right circumstances, but what are we talking about? The literature shows that phenelzine clearly alters your biochemistry - so it's not just getting the munchies. So how spartan do I need to get? Like to lose 1 lb/.5 kg per week.

(Not to mention how do I do this if I want to dunk my face in a bowl of sugar.)

I would love to hear a Nardil + weight loss story.


----------



## hworth

Caedmon said:


> Anyone, anywhere: can you* lose weight* on Nardil? I mean, not just avoid weight gain. Actually lose it?
> 
> And I'm sure the answer is 'yes' if given the right circumstances, but what are we talking about? The literature shows that phenelzine clearly alters your biochemistry - so it's not just getting the munchies. So how spartan do I need to get? Like to lose 1 lb/.5 kg per week.
> 
> (Not to mention how do I do this if I want to dunk my face in a bowl of sugar.)
> 
> I would love to hear a Nardil + weight loss story.


I gratefully accept your challenge!


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Going to quit Nardil because I don't get sexually aroused, I can't ejaculate, and I think my penis has gotten smaller (i could just be hallucinating though).

I am currently on 60 mg/Nardil, should I:

1) Drop to 45/mg day and try to ejaculate (i could do it before on 45/mg)?
2) Go cold turkey and drop to 0/mg until I can ejaculate and then maybe restart?
3) Drop to 45/mg for a week, then 30, then 15, and then 0?


----------



## SA232

I did a sped-up version of number 3. I first dropped from 60 to, like, 45, and then to 15 and then zero. Bad nightmares was the only negative thing I remember.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Ahh,, icic. Okay maybe I will try that.

Has anyone tried going cold turkey off Nardil? 
Is that recommended if I wanted to restart? 
Would love to hear how long it typically takes to get out of system (ive been on for about 3mos)?


----------



## arishorts

I've heard many stories of nardil effects "pooping out" between 1-2 years after beginning treatment. Is there any way to reverse these affects? I'm looking for a permanent (short-term ) solution to my social anxiety and picking up nardil seems like a miracle drug. I'm worried, though, that i'll get so attached to it that having it stop working at some point will send me spiraling down. Any suggestions?


----------



## boostinggtir

arishorts said:


> I've heard many stories of nardil effects "pooping out" between 1-2 years after beginning treatment. Is there any way to reverse these affects? I'm looking for a permanent (short-term ) solution to my social anxiety and picking up nardil seems like a miracle drug. I'm worried, though, that i'll get so attached to it that having it stop working at some point will send me spiraling down. Any suggestions?


Nardil works long term. Getting it to work in the first place can be the issue, combating sides etc..


----------



## Aerovis

hworth said:


> I gratefully accept your challenge!


How's this going for ya?


----------



## klmnop

Has anyone experienced chest pain on Nardil? And if so, did it ever go away?


----------



## Krouton

Hey guys,

I'm from the UK and when I asked my GP about nardil he said he wasn't allowed to prescribe it, only a psychiatrist could. Is this true? He was extremely reluctant to give me a short script for valium so I'm just wondering if he's nervous about prescribing or that he just legally can't so I know whether to press the issue or not. He referred me to a psych so I could make the request there but it's been over a month now and still no word. My life's at a complete standstill and the waiting is becoming unbearable, especially considering it's doubtful if they would even give it to me. To any fellow brits- how long did it take you to see a psychiatrist after a referral? 

Thanks guys.


----------



## SA232

ChopSuey said:


> Yes, what you felt was the GABA stimulation & Nardil being a weak releasing agent for the three major monoamines, I do as well. But it is not related to MAO inhibition.
> 
> I started straight at 75/90mg, it is not recommended. But it worked very well for me.


How would you describe the difference between the immediate effect and the MAO inhibition?


----------



## ChopSuey

SA232 said:


> How would you describe the difference between the immediate effect and the MAO inhibition?


The immediate effects are more potent since they can be felt very quickly, the MAO inhibition is more subtle, it's difficult to point it out and how it feels; more of a general subtle well-being, more uninhibited behavior and less negative thought patterns.


----------



## ChopSuey

Krouton said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm from the UK and when I asked my GP about nardil he said he wasn't allowed to prescribe it, only a psychiatrist could. Is this true? He was extremely reluctant to give me a short script for valium so I'm just wondering if he's nervous about prescribing or that he just legally can't so I know whether to press the issue or not. He referred me to a psych so I could make the request there but it's been over a month now and still no word. My life's at a complete standstill and the waiting is becoming unbearable, especially considering it's doubtful if they would even give it to me. To any fellow brits- how long did it take you to see a psychiatrist after a referral?
> 
> Thanks guys.


No, that's not true. Depending on rules and regulations a GP might have a more difficult time prescribing it, but it should be possible.


----------



## Krouton

ChopSuey said:


> No, that's not true. Depending on rules and regulations a GP might have a more difficult time prescribing it, but it should be possible.


Thanks for the info . I doubt it will make much of a change to his outlook though.


----------



## daddylonglegs

Did anyone on Nardil experience dry mouth, and did it go away?


----------



## ChopSuey

daddylonglegs said:


> Did anyone on Nardil experience dry mouth, and did it go away?


Yeah, the first two months, then it went away fully.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

I just started today. Have a few questions. 

How much time should I give it to work? 

How long does it take for side effects to go away on average? 

Can I still get drunk on it and eat pepperoni pizza?


----------



## ChopSuey

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> I just started today. Have a few questions.
> 
> How much time should I give it to work?
> 
> How long does it take for side effects to go away on average?
> 
> Can I still get drunk on it and eat pepperoni pizza?


Usually takes around 6 weeks before it starts to give therapeutic effect, but it can take up to 3 months as well, and if it doesn't work, try a higher dosage.

The worst usually subside when it starts working.

Yes.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

ChopSuey said:


> Usually takes around 6 weeks before it starts to give therapeutic effect, but it can take up to 3 months as well, and if it doesn't work, try a higher dosage.
> 
> The worst usually subside when it starts working.
> 
> Yes.


Sweet thanks. So basically what is the only foods/drinks that I really need to be concerned about possibly interacting?


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

Also, can I take ibuprofen on Nardil? 


And how has it been for people cognitively? Do people feel the same on it usually? Dumbed down? Or smarter?


----------



## Burnaby

OK, so I have been on nardil for almost a year and its been going well (considering some of the side effects like insomnia) however the therapeutic effects seem to be wearing off as of the last two weeks. I'm on 53mg (3 1/2 pills) and it seems to be the dose that i tolerate well. 

What do the veterans suggest, should i reduce the dose for a while and then go back to 53mg to see if it starts working again? If so for how long and do you think reducing the dose from 53mg to 30mg is sufficient to do the trick? I really hate to give up on nardil as i have tried many other meds and hope this is temporary and not a permanent poop out


----------



## daddylonglegs

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> Also, can I take ibuprofen on Nardil?
> 
> And how has it been for people cognitively? Do people feel the same on it usually? Dumbed down? Or smarter?


I've been on it for about 5 weeks, and I feel slightly spaced out, but my chess tactics rating is the same as before I started.


----------



## daddylonglegs

Is how you feel before it "kicks in" any indication of how well it's going to work once it does kick in?

Did you find that you had to be on the 1mg/kg dose in order for it to work, or does it work at lesser amounts?


----------



## lacey23

This is kind of an odd question.... But hopefully someone has a response, and has tried coke and or benzo's before. 


Generally I feel the best / least axiety / most confident socially, when taking a mix of cocaine, and benzo's.....

I don't have a coke problem or anything. Maybe used it 1 or 2x a year on average. 

But, my question is: Does anybody know if Nardil compares somewhat to cocaine / benzo's used at the same time? When using them both together I can walk up to a group of 4 of the hottest girls in the bar by myself, and hit on them no problem. 

Benzo's hit gaba. And, from what I understand coke hits a bit of everything (seratonin, dopamine, nor ep). So, my thinking is that Nardil hits gaba, seratonin, dopamine, nor ep, as well, and might produce a similar feeling? Maybe I'm way off here, but just curious I guess.


----------



## boostinggtir

lacey23 said:


> This is kind of an odd question.... But hopefully someone has a response, and has tried coke and or benzo's before.
> 
> Generally I feel the best / least axiety / most confident socially, when taking a mix of cocaine, and benzo's.....
> 
> I don't have a coke problem or anything. Maybe used it 1 or 2x a year on average.
> 
> But, my question is: Does anybody know if Nardil compares somewhat to cocaine / benzo's used at the same time? When using them both together I can walk up to a group of 4 of the hottest girls in the bar by myself, and hit on them no problem.
> 
> Benzo's hit gaba. And, from what I understand coke hits a bit of everything (seratonin, dopamine, nor ep). So, my thinking is that Nardil hits gaba, seratonin, dopamine, nor ep, as well, and might produce a *similar feeling? * Maybe *I'm way off here*, but just curious I guess.


_*No*_


----------



## SA232

Actually, it's a _little_ bit like coke and benzos. Well, at least the immediate effect. (ChopSuey stated that Nardil has both an immediate effect and a long-term effect [See this post and the one that follows]. He described it as "the GABA stimulation & Nardil being a weak releasing agent for the three major monoamines." So it's just was lacey23 said. Perhaps Nardil's potency in this respect caps off at what can be considered a therapeutic effect, in contrast to the highly addictive highs provided by benzodiazepines and cocaine.

If you don't get an immediate effect from Nardil, you're not taking enough, as I see it.

_Phenelzine has the advantage that the effective dosage for depression is probably now known-more than 1 mg/kg body weight-although in three earlier large negative controlled studies, the effective dosage was not known and too little was given for too short a period._

Cole J, Bodkin A. MAO inhibitors: An option worth trying in treatment-resistant cases. Current Psychiatry, Vol. 1, No. 6, June 2002

More elaboration on the contrast between the immediate effect and the long-term effect, per ChopSuey:

_The immediate effects are more potent since they can be felt very quickly, the MAO inhibition is more subtle, it's difficult to point it out and how it feels; more of a general subtle well-being, more uninhibited behavior and less negative thought patterns._


----------



## lacey23

Thanks for the answers. 


I'm wondering if anyone has noticed a difference in apathy between nardil, and other SSRI's. 

On Lexapro I have no motivation. Just have no energy and want to lie around all the time. Is Nardil the same, or is there a difference between the 2?


----------



## daddylonglegs

lacey23 said:


> Thanks for the answers.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has noticed a difference in apathy between nardil, and other SSRI's.
> 
> On Lexapro I have no motivation. Just have no energy and want to lie around all the time. Is Nardil the same, or is there a difference between the 2?


So, I'm not sure it's kicked in for me, yet, but at the moment I feel very content with laying around. It's weird. It's not that I lack motivation. It's that I'm fine with what I'm currently doing, which is a lot of laying around. Of course, that;s what I was doing before Nardil. But, it has alleviated anhedonia. I now enjoy playing the piano. I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy playing with my dog, or just sitting around petting her. I'm guessing that the more I do stuff that I enjoy, the more I will want to do things, and that will be when I become motivated. I do not feel dead inside or emotionally blunted.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

daddylonglegs said:


> So, I'm not sure it's kicked in for me, yet, but at the moment I feel very content with laying around. It's weird. It's not that I lack motivation. It's that I'm fine with what I'm currently doing, which is a lot of laying around. Of course, that;s what I was doing before Nardil. But, it has alleviated anhedonia. I now enjoy playing the piano. I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy playing with my dog, or just sitting around petting her. I'm guessing that the more I do stuff that I enjoy, the more I will want to do things, and that will be when I become motivated. I do not feel dead inside or emotionally blunted.


What's your dosage? How long have you been on? I'm 5 weeks in. 3 weeks on 60 mg. A couple days ago, my stress significantly decreased and I felt tranquility. It only lasted for that day though. My stress has returned. Today I felt dizzy, lightheaded and confused  I'm hoping that calmness and stress reduction comes back.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

SA232 said:


> Actually, it's a _little_ bit like coke and benzos. Well, at least the immediate effect. (ChopSuey stated that Nardil has both an immediate effect and a long-term effect [See this post and the one that follows]. He described it as "the GABA stimulation & Nardil being a weak releasing agent for the three major monoamines." So it's just was lacey23 said. Perhaps Nardil's potency in this respect caps off at what can be considered a therapeutic effect, in contrast to the highly addictive highs provided by benzodiazepines and cocaine.
> 
> If you don't get an immediate effect from Nardil, you're not taking enough, as I see it.
> 
> _Phenelzine has the advantage that the effective dosage for depression is probably now known-more than 1 mg/kg body weight-although in three earlier large negative controlled studies, the effective dosage was not known and too little was given for too short a period._
> 
> Cole J, Bodkin A. MAO inhibitors: An option worth trying in treatment-resistant cases. Current Psychiatry, Vol. 1, No. 6, June 2002
> 
> More elaboration on the contrast between the immediate effect and the long-term effect, per ChopSuey:
> 
> _The immediate effects are more potent since they can be felt very quickly, the MAO inhibition is more subtle, it's difficult to point it out and how it feels; more of a general subtle well-being, more uninhibited behavior and less negative thought patterns._


So basically if you're 165 pounds and up, you need to be on at least 75 mg?


----------



## daddylonglegs

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> What's your dosage? How long have you been on? I'm 5 weeks in. 3 weeks on 60 mg. A couple days ago, my stress significantly decreased and I felt tranquility. It only lasted for that day though. My stress has returned. Today I felt dizzy, lightheaded and confused  I'm hoping that calmness and stress reduction comes back.


We've already discussed this, so don't count this as reaffirming something else you heard, if that something else was me.

I think I've been on it for nine weeks, though I'm not sure the initial sub-therapeutic bull**** counts for anything. I was on 45mg for 2-3 weeks, 60mg for 1 week, and I've been on 75mg for a little over 2 weeks. I actually started feeling more depressed on 45mg. I didn't have any side effects at that dose. When I went up to 60mg, I started feeling better but that's probably because the medication made me feel kinda high, like I was on opiates. 60mg is when the hypotension started. It manifested as ringing in my ears. It would start around a minute after getting up from a laying position. When I started 75mg that's when I really started feeling better, though I don't really feel quite as good as when I first started. I think I'm still experiencing the immediate effects and not the true effects of the drug. I think this because I feel like **** when I wake up in the morning after the immediate effects have worn off. But, once my dose kicks in again, I start feeling better. The postural hypotension on 75mg is very pronounced. My legs have given out on me twice. But, the main symptoms are a very loud ringing in my ears, enough that I can't hear people talking to me, and a bright visual disturbance, kind of like the visual equivalent of the ringing. I went for a walk the other day, and everything was so bright that I could barely see what was going on. I sort of feel dizzy, but not in the sense that things are spinning. It's hard to describe, but until later in the evening, I basically have to be laying down or I will be too "dizzy" to do anything. The weird thing is that some days the dizziness is much less than others.

I weigh 155 pounds, if that matters.

Also, this is pure speculation/superstition, but I take my dose on a completely emptying stomach when I wake up, along with like 4 entire cups of water, in hopes that the high volume of liquid will cause rapid gastric emptying and force the pills into the small intestine along with it. I have no evidence whatsoever that this is effective.


----------



## lacey23

daddylonglegs said:


> So, I'm not sure it's kicked in for me, yet, but at the moment I feel very content with laying around. It's weird. It's not that I lack motivation. It's that I'm fine with what I'm currently doing, which is a lot of laying around. Of course, that;s what I was doing before Nardil. But, it has alleviated anhedonia. I now enjoy playing the piano. I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy playing with my dog, or just sitting around petting her. I'm guessing that the more I do stuff that I enjoy, the more I will want to do things, and that will be when I become motivated. I do not feel dead inside or emotionally blunted.


Did you have anhedonia on other SSRI's?


----------



## SA232

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> So basically if you're 165 pounds and up, you need to be on at least 75 mg?


I guess.


----------



## daddylonglegs

lacey23 said:


> Did you have anhedonia on other SSRI's?


Well, I have anhedonia as a symptom of depression. I don't feel like any SSRI caused a greater amount of anhedonia, but I'm not sure any of them helped this much. I might have gotten more relief from Effexor, but that was over a period of years. If it was more helpful, it was also more gradual.


----------



## SSRIManiac

Does it cause weight gain? Do you feel like a speed freak? Theoretically, you can combine a benzo and stimulant and it will have similar effects I know how relieved I felt but I felt like a speed freak and obnoxious. I don't want to feel like superman while being on a drug.


----------



## daddylonglegs

Here's a post I made about how to not gain weight:

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ing-with-certain-nardil-side-effects-1044953/

I haven't gained any weight in 9 weeks of being on the drug.

Nardil is not activating whatsoever for me, so, no, I couldn't be farther from feeling like a speed freak. If anything, it makes me feel half-drunkenly relaxed, but not drunkenly stupid, confident, or obnoxious. I fall asleep more easily, though my sleep is frequently interrupted.


----------



## steal

Is there a poll on if this stuff works?
what are the side effects,
my dr won't subscribe me it.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

daddylonglegs said:


> Here's a post I made about how to not gain weight:
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ing-with-certain-nardil-side-effects-1044953/
> 
> I haven't gained any weight in 9 weeks of being on the drug.
> 
> Nardil is not activating whatsoever for me, so, no, I couldn't be farther from feeling like a speed freak. *If anything, it makes me feel half-drunkenly relaxed, but not drunkenly stupid, confident, or obnoxious.* I fall asleep more easily, though my sleep is frequently interrupted.


That's kind of how it makes me feel after I take the dose in the morning. Towards the evening though, I feel like it wears off and I'm more amped/stressed. I hope that relaxed feeling is legit, remains, and gets even better while you're on Nardil.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

steal said:


> Is there a poll on if this stuff works?
> what are the side effects,
> my dr won't subscribe me it.


I believe they have a poll in the medication section of this forum. I think MAOI's have the highest success rate after Benzos and stimulants like Adderall. Also in the ratings of the meds, Nardil was rated 5 of 5 stars by users on here. I've seen a lot more success stories from Nardil than other meds. People refer to it as the Gold Standard for anxiety/depression.

Lots of side effects, usually initially from what I've read and experienced. I'm 6 weeks in. I've had very minor balance issues, insomnia/unable to sleep in, some increased sweating, lightheaded/dizziness/confusion only a couple times though, fatigue at times, actually has suppressed my appetite I believe, a little bit of short term memory problems, and maybe some others that I can't think of right now. However, most people say that most if not all sides usually subside after adequate time on the appropriate dosage. If not, you can always try lowering the dose.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

Sometimes I feel like my heart is beating faster and adrenaline is pumping through me. It kind of stresses me out a little bit. I think it may be from the norepinephrine increase? Anyways, does anyone know if this fades after a while or what you can do to lessen it or decrease the impact of norepinephrine?


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

Also I'm worried that my initial improvement the last week or two was some kind of euphoria that people talk about that they get while on Nardil, but it only last for a little bit. I didn't feel crazily good or on top of the world or anything, I just have felt more relaxed and less depressed. At times I was really relaxed and felt pretty darn good. I would describe it as a poor man's version of euphoria, but not totally euphoric. 

So I don't know if this is more likely just a temporary lift or the actual long term effect of Nardil that last? I hope it's an effect that last and get better, because it still wasn't where I want to be. Would I be able to tell if it was the temporary legit euphoria or the actual long term effect of Nardil beginning to kick in?


----------



## Caedmon

lacey23 said:


> Does anybody know if Nardil compares somewhat to cocaine / benzo's used at the same time? When using them both together I can walk up to a group of 4 of the hottest girls in the bar by myself, and hit on them no problem.


It would be more akin to an itty bitty dose of MDMA w/ benzodiazepine, and a tendency to eat all of the bar pretzels.


----------



## daddylonglegs

Thanks for the info, Janet.


----------



## hope4all

Hi I was on nardil too & found it amazing but for a few reasons I am now on parnate foe the previous 3 weeks so far no change!! Do you know is parnate as good as nardil for crippling social phobia


----------



## MRDIGBY

Im not taking Nardil but I'm taking 80mg Parnate. Recent studies show that if you're MAOI resistant stimulants can help. I'm taking 70 mg of Vyvanse and Ritalin (not Adderal). My blood pressure is normal and the MAOI started working. Some people go as high as 120mg with stimulants. Just watch your blood pressure. Of course the higher you go the dietary restrictions become more pertinent.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

Anyone know where Mr. T went? I've been having bad shedding/hair loss only for the last five days or so and I really am not sure what it's from. I've had a really itchy and dry scalp that I've been picking at excessively the last few weeks. I've been on Propecia for a few years and it stopped my hair loss. I've been on Nardil for over 2 months and 4 weeks on 75 mg. Could it randomly start making me lose my hair or somehow make Propecia not work? Or should I not worry about Nardil causing the hair loss and it's likely just from my scalp issue? Should I immediately drop my dosage back down to 60 mg in case it's from Nardil somehow or wait to treat my scalp issue first? 


I really don't want to get off Nardil and really hope it's not what's causing the hair loss. I hope it's a scalp issue that I can correct and the shedding stops as soon as I treat it.


----------



## boostinggtir

MRDIGBY said:


> Im not taking Nardil but I'm taking 80mg Parnate. *Recent studies show that if you're MAOI resistant stimulants can help.* I'm taking 70 mg of Vyvanse and Ritalin (not Adderal). My blood pressure is normal and the MAOI started working. Some people go as high as 120mg with stimulants. Just watch your blood pressure. Of course the higher you go the dietary restrictions become more pertinent.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


What studies? Post them please..


----------



## Mustafa

Nardil + St. John's wort + 5htp= warrior mode.


----------



## Caedmon

boostinggtir said:


> What studies? Post them please..


I know you didn't ask me, but I have a handy bibliography saved. Augmentation of Parnate (tranylcypromine) w/ amphetamine (Adderall) has been a godsend for me. (My perception of the stimulant doses is different from those listed by MRDIGBY, but the strategy is sound.)

1: 
Ashton AK. Modafinil augmentation of phenelzine for residual fatigue in dysthymia. Am J Psychiatry. 2004 Sep;161(9):1716-7. PubMed PMID: 15337670.
Related citations
2: 
Clemons WE, Makela E, Young J. Concomitant use of modafinil and tranylcypromine in a patient with narcolepsy: a case report. Sleep Med. 2004 Sep;5(5):509-11. PubMed PMID: 15341899.
Related citations
3: 
Elis J, Laurence DR, Mattie H, Prichard BN. Modification by monoamine oxidase inhibitors of the effect of some sympathomimetics on blood pressure. Br Med J. 1967 Apr 8;2(5544):75-8. PubMed PMID: 6020852; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC1841253.
Free full textCited in PMCRelated citations
4: 
Feighner JP, Herbstein J, Damlouji N. Combined MAOI, TCA, and direct stimulant therapy of treatment-resistant depression. J Clin Psychiatry. 1985 Jun;46(6):206-9. PubMed PMID: 3997787.
Cited in PMCRelated citations
5: 
Feinberg SS. Combining stimulants with monoamine oxidase inhibitors: a review of uses and one possible additional indication. J Clin Psychiatry. 2004 Nov;65(11):1520-4. Review. PubMed PMID: 15554766.
Cited in PMCRelated citations
6: 
Shelton Clauson A, Elliott ES, Watson BD, Treacy J. Coadministration of phenelzine and methylphenidate for treatment-resistant depression. Ann Pharmacother. 2004 Mar;38(3):508. Epub 2004 Jan 23. PubMed PMID: 14970373.
Cited in PMCRelated citations
7: 
Sovner R. Amphetamine and tranylcypromine in treatment-resistant depression. Biol Psychiatry. 1990 Dec 1;28(11):1011-2. PubMed PMID: 2275949.
Related citations
8: 
Stewart JW, Deliyannides DA, McGrath PJ. How treatable is refractory depression? J Affect Disord. 2014 Jun 4;167C:148-152. doi: 10.1016/j.jad.2014.05.047. [Epub ahead of print] PubMed PMID: 24972362.
Related citations


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

These last two days, some depression has seemed to creep back in after not having been there in a month or two. Also I have had some more anxiety and increased awkwardness socially. I recently started an antibiotic and was wondering if the antibiotic is interacting with the effectiveness of Nardil? Or if Nardil is just up and down in the first couple months? It just seems weird to me that it's effectiveness in helping my depression would suddenly be blunted the last couple days, after recently starting the antibiotic.. What do you guys think?


----------



## boostinggtir

Caedmon said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but I have a handy bibliography saved. Augmentation of Parnate (tranylcypromine) w/ amphetamine (Adderall) has been a godsend for me. (My perception of the stimulant doses is different from those listed by MRDIGBY, but the strategy is sound.)
> 
> 1:
> Ashton AK. Modafinil augmentation of phenelzine for residual fatigue in dysthymia. Am J Psychiatry. 2004 Sep;161(9):1716-7. PubMed PMID: 15337670.
> Related citations
> 2:
> Clemons WE, Makela E, Young J. Concomitant use of modafinil and tranylcypromine in a patient with narcolepsy: a case report. Sleep Med. 2004 Sep;5(5):509-11. PubMed PMID: 15341899.
> Related citations
> 3:
> Elis J, Laurence DR, Mattie H, Prichard BN. Modification by monoamine oxidase inhibitors of the effect of some sympathomimetics on blood pressure. Br Med J. 1967 Apr 8;2(5544):75-8. PubMed PMID: 6020852; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC1841253.
> Free full textCited in PMCRelated citations
> 4:
> Feighner JP, Herbstein J, Damlouji N. Combined MAOI, TCA, and direct stimulant therapy of treatment-resistant depression. J Clin Psychiatry. 1985 Jun;46(6):206-9. PubMed PMID: 3997787.
> Cited in PMCRelated citations
> 5:
> Feinberg SS. Combining stimulants with monoamine oxidase inhibitors: a review of uses and one possible additional indication. J Clin Psychiatry. 2004 Nov;65(11):1520-4. Review. PubMed PMID: 15554766.
> Cited in PMCRelated citations
> 6:
> Shelton Clauson A, Elliott ES, Watson BD, Treacy J. Coadministration of phenelzine and methylphenidate for treatment-resistant depression. Ann Pharmacother. 2004 Mar;38(3):508. Epub 2004 Jan 23. PubMed PMID: 14970373.
> Cited in PMCRelated citations
> 7:
> Sovner R. Amphetamine and tranylcypromine in treatment-resistant depression. Biol Psychiatry. 1990 Dec 1;28(11):1011-2. PubMed PMID: 2275949.
> Related citations
> 8:
> Stewart JW, Deliyannides DA, McGrath PJ. How treatable is refractory depression? J Affect Disord. 2014 Jun 4;167C:148-152. doi: 10.1016/j.jad.2014.05.047. [Epub ahead of print] PubMed PMID: 24972362.
> Related citations


Thank you. I will be sure to have a read of those studies.

Wouldn't cortisol elevation been an issue those combos. Also excessive blood NE.. Have you looked at supplementing with PS 
http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?1476-Phosphatidylserine-Overview-amp-Studies

Or Choline ect...


----------



## Troutbum76

Isn't it

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Troutbum76

Troutbum76 said:


> Isn't it great feeling "cured"? That's how I felt when I first started taking Paxil. That was over a decade ago, and it eventually kind of pooped out. I've switched to Luvox now to avoid sexual side effects. It works so so. My doctor has mentioned Nardil to me, and I am interested; however, I'm concerned about the sexual side effects once more.
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


 _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Troutbum76

]Isn't it great feeling "cured"? That's how I felt when I first started taking Paxil. That was over a decade ago, and it eventually kind of pooped out. I've switched to Luvox now to avoid sexual side effects. It works so so. My doctor has mentioned Nardil to me, and I am interested; however, I'm concerned about the sexual side effects once more.
_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_[/QUOTE]

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_[/QUOTE]

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Troutbum76

Isn't it great feeling "cured"? That's how I felt when I first started taking Paxil. That was over a decade ago, and it eventually kind of pooped out. I've switched to Luvox now to avoid sexual side effects. It works so so. My doctor has mentioned Nardil to me, and I am interested; however, I'm concerned about the sexual side effects once more.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_[/QUOTE]

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Troutbum76

Sorry... This iPhone app is screwy. It keeps saying that my messages too short. Then when I go to edit it, it reposts the entire message. ..And it won't let me delete them.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## klmnop

*Caedmon*, thanks for those studies, and for always being so informative, it seems. 
Sorry it's off topic for the thread but Nardil's being inconsistent for me so if it doesn't work out Parnate seems like my next choice/only hope, so, if you don't mind me asking, Parnate and a stimulant? Does your anxiety typically tend to respond well to stimulating things, or does it just work in that particular combination? Despite lack of energy always being a problem, a lot of even mildly stimulating things seem to just worsen my anxiety, though Prozac is the only other med that's really helped me much and was stimulating in a way. I've never tried actual stimulants like amphetamines, but I am curious whether parnate's stimulation would help or hurt me, especially since I think I lean toward AvPD which stimulants are supposed to be good for..


----------



## th14

I started nardil on 15mg around 4 and 1/2 weeks ago and after around a week on 45mg i felt strangely calm and in a non-depressive mood, basically 'cured'. Although i did have some depressive tendencies and it seemed a little inconsistent at times I mostly felt fairly giddy (esp when around or just after being around people). Two weeks after that though i started having some depression and fairly bad obsessive thoughts again so i upped the dosage again to 60mg. This fixed it for a few days but now I'm starting to feel more anxious/obsessive again. Does this sound like the initial 'euphoric' stage that isn't supposed to last very long or was it the actual effect and the drug just pooped out on me? If the former how long does it usually take to reach the 'real' effect. Should I stay at 60 and see what happens or start dropping back down and going back up in an attempt to regain this effect? Sorry for all the questions but I'm not really sure what to do right now.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

th14 said:


> I started nardil on 15mg around 4 and 1/2 weeks ago and after around a week on 45mg i felt strangely calm and in a non-depressive mood, basically 'cured'. Although i did have some depressive tendencies and it seemed a little inconsistent at times I mostly felt fairly giddy (esp when around or just after being around people). Two weeks after that though i started having some depression and fairly bad obsessive thoughts again so i upped the dosage again to 60mg. This fixed it for a few days but now I'm starting to feel more anxious/obsessive again. Does this sound like the initial 'euphoric' stage that isn't supposed to last very long or was it the actual effect and the drug just pooped out on me? If the former how long does it usually take to reach the 'real' effect. Should I stay at 60 and see what happens or start dropping back down and going back up in an attempt to regain this effect? Sorry for all the questions but I'm not really sure what to do right now.


Yeah I'm interested in this similar type of experience as well. I bumped back down to 60 mg and have been on 60 mg for just over two weeks. I've had some good days and other days not as good. What does this inconsistency mean? Does it usually happen and mean that eventually Nardil becomes more consistent after you've been on the right dose for a good period of time?


----------



## ChopSuey

Iwillovercomeanxiety1 said:


> Yeah I'm interested in this similar type of experience as well. I bumped back down to 60 mg and have been on 60 mg for just over two weeks. I've had some good days and other days not as good. What does this inconsistency mean? Does it usually happen and mean that eventually Nardil becomes more consistent after you've been on the right dose for a good period of time?


Perhaps one should remember that every human being have ups and downs, this doesn't change when starting Nardil. Those ups and down will still keep coming, what the medicine should do however is help you cope with anxiety inducing situations. How well it's able to do that is of course related to many factors in life which change daily. A medicine such as Nardil doesn't miraculously work for two days, and then stop working for four days, starts working again for six days etc


----------



## Cascade

Hi all,

I thought I would post a few Nardil tips that have been helpful to me along the way.

Orthostatic Hypotension
- I really struggle with this, but something that makes a huge difference for me is wearing an abdominal binder. I forgot to put it on yesterday and could barely get to and from work. Today I wore it and had no symptoms/difficulties with my blood pressure dropping during the day (until I took it off tonight).

I wear this one: Dale Abdominal Binder - 9" Wide, Stretches 30-45" bought from Amazon. It is lighter weight than others I saw in the store. I am 5'2"113. If you are a lot taller you may want a four panel one or if your waist is bigger, you will need a wider one.

Gas
This one I discovered completely by accident - eat only whole foods. I was on a trip for five weeks in a couple of countries where I did not trust the safety of meat storage (lack of electricity) and often could not speak the language, so I could not ask about ingredients in foods. For five weeks I ate ZERO processed foods, including sauces. It was a really boring five week diet of fresh vegetables, plain starches and legumes. My gas disappeared during this time. Then I landed in Western Europe and ate some crappy train station food and within hours I had bloating and gas. Now I try to only eat whole foods with no processed ingredients and I rarely have a problem. My bean soup gave me issues yesterday, but it would for anyone.

Sexual dysfunction
I added a small amount of Wellbutrin and now do not have any issues with this. Even though the ability to orgasm returns in time, it was still muted for me and now it is like before with the Wellbutrin.

Weight gain
The whole foods diet helps with this one, but I also cut out sugar except for very rare occasions (and now sugar is too sweet). I gained 25 pounds after a couple of months on Nardil and now am just a couple of pounds off my pre-Nardil size.

Fatigue
I take Ritalin during the day and drink coffee, but this improves with time. I tried Provigil, but my heart rate went up and stayed up for the whole day into the night.

Sleep deprivation
This also improves in time, but something that puts me out and keeps me asleep is to eat a homemade cookie with a special ingredient shortly before bedtime. 

Constipation
Sorry, I have nothing for this one.

There might be more, but this is what I can think about off the top of my head.


----------



## Iwillovercomeanxiety1

ChopSuey said:


> Perhaps one should remember that every human being have ups and downs, this doesn't change when starting Nardil. Those ups and down will still keep coming, what the medicine should do however is help you cope with anxiety inducing situations. How well it's able to do that is of course related to many factors in life which change daily. A medicine such as Nardil doesn't miraculously work for two days, and then stop working for four days, starts working again for six days etc


I know what you're saying, but that isn't really what I'm experiencing. One day I'll feel good and pretty chill and then the next day in the same exact situation or in an even normally less anxiety provoking situation, I will be stressed out. I'm just over 2 weeks back down on 60 mg, so was thinking maybe this rollercoaster inconsistency type of experience is just a sign that it's getting ready to kick in more consistently.

In total, I've been on Nardil for just over 3 months. Right around the 3 week mark on 60 mg, I had my first really good day. Then I decided to jump up to 75 mg a couple days later, which turned out to not be real good for me. I had way too many side effects and wasn't getting much therapeutic effect for about 6 weeks or so on 75 mg. Now I'm back just a little 2 weeks over on the 60 mg and feel better than I did on 75 mg, but again have that on and off effect so far.


----------



## daddylonglegs

ChopSuey said:


> Perhaps one should remember that every human being have ups and downs...


While you're around, can you say more about your dosing protocol - the up and down one? What is your daily experience like? What do you feel like on the low-dose days in comparison with the high-dose days?


----------



## Antisocial Anxiety

*No to Nardil!*

Everyone is SO different. There are so many variables in each person's life. I tried Nardil years ago and it made me sick to my stomach, horribly dizzy, and INCREASED my anxiety! I think it's great if it works for you, but it's not for everyone.

I take .5 mg of Xanax before I'm going to be in a situation that I think I might need it (with groups of friends, events where I have to interact with people, parties, etc.) and it knocks out 90% of my anxiety. Nothing else works for me.

(I also tried Valium about ten years ago, and it was good, except it clouded my judgment. It removed inhibitions to the point that I had no problem doing very stupid and dangerous things!)


----------



## Paxil123

i'm on nardil 60 mg since 2 mounth and i just felt the side effect. It don't work for me apparently :/. I will try oxytocin my physican told me that i has a good effect


----------



## voodoochild16

What dosage are you on now?. I was looking around for a good medication, and everyone's saying this one is the best, even in the oldest archives of SAS. 

Also, is it worth the ED?.


----------



## Andre

It keeps me from hating myself too much. Thats the only reason to take any self-booster. I know this is true for all.


----------



## rrhxiv

Guys here is how I got nardil to work consistently for me:

First off it never worked consistently by itself.
60 Mgs took about 6 weeks to kick in
Augment with bioperine to increase absorption
After the 6 weeks and hypotension and tinnitus I drop down to 30 Mgs and bam! It kicks in
In other words continuing at high dose doesn't work for me(med guide says we should lower dose once Mao inhibition is achieved).
But every so often like 2-3 times a week I bump back to 60 Mgs to bring back a greater effect and maintain MAO inhibition.
Each morning I augment with Lugols Iodine tincture
For sleep I use no more than 50 Mgs seroquel(if you take any higher dose it will lower dopamine and counter some feel good effects of Nardil)along with 7.5 Mgs remeron and ZMA.
I used to take lyrica for sleep which was perfect but it doesn't work anymore.
70 Mgs Baclofen to completely crush any residual anxiety.
Phenibut may work for sleep occasionally
I also use an Alpha stim device as well.

Continual trial and error of other supplements to boot.
Prayer and personal faith in Jesus and the love and support of family and friends.

All the best.


----------



## hworth

rrhxiv said:


> Guys here is how I got nardil to work consistently for me:
> 
> First off it never worked consistently by itself.
> 60 Mgs took about 6 weeks to kick in
> Augment with bioperine to increase absorption
> After the 6 weeks and hypotension and tinnitus I drop down to 30 Mgs and bam! It kicks in
> In other words continuing at high dose doesn't work for me(med guide says we should lower dose once Mao inhibition is achieved).
> But every so often like 2-3 times a week I bump back to 60 Mgs to bring back a greater effect and maintain MAO inhibition.
> Each morning I augment with Lugols Iodine tincture
> For sleep I use no more than 50 Mgs seroquel(if you take any higher dose it will lower dopamine and counter some feel good effects of Nardil)along with 7.5 Mgs remeron and ZMA.
> I used to take lyrica for sleep which was perfect but it doesn't work anymore.
> 70 Mgs Baclofen to completely crush any residual anxiety.
> Phenibut may work for sleep occasionally
> I also use an Alpha stim device as well.
> 
> Continual trial and error of other supplements to boot.
> Prayer and personal faith in Jesus and the love and support of family and friends.
> 
> All the best.


Which brand of Nardil do you take? Is it Pfizer/greenstone?


----------



## th14

Rufus said:


> It keeps me from hating myself too much. Thats the only reason to take any self-booster. I know this is true for all.


Nope, never actually hated myself. Just the way mental illness has made me feel and act.


----------



## rrhxiv

hworth said:


> Which brand of Nardil do you take? Is it Pfizer/greenstone?


Greenstone/Gavis 
Yep


----------



## mr t

Hey everyone, mr t here.

I want yall to check out my new thread on medication section.

its called, mr t returns: a new hope


----------



## th14

mr t said:


> Hey everyone, mr t here.
> 
> I want yall to check out my new thread on medication section.
> 
> its called, mr t returns: a new hope


An approach along the lines of that (with appropriate lifestyle changes) is my ultimate long term goal for when i have more freedom and stability, however in the meantime I'm interested in how you were able to maintain nardil's effectiveness for so long. Was your dosage kept stable or did you fluctuate/take breaks, and did you augment at all?


----------



## Andre

Mr. T, are you familiar with the different brands of Nardil? I take Greenstone now. Originally I took what I thought at the time was the name brand, but recent research points to the brand Novel, however I am suspicious this is correct. The original pills, which I found to have less intense side effects like hypotension, (although I am unsure it was the pills because life is very different now) had the mark NL 360. I think they were more powerful than my current brand, as well.

At the time of my first dosing of Nardil in Jan of 2013 I was unaware there even were any generic brands, and I recall this being told to me by my doctor, and I think I remember reading the bottle from the pharmacy as the Nardil brand.


----------



## watertouch

rrhxiv said:


> Greenstone/Gavis
> Yep


Bioperine or the active ingrediense has been showen in some studies to works as an MAOi, so it could potentiet the effect...
Otherwise Nardil in lower doses doesn't effect Serotonine as much, maybe with your brain chemistry(everyone is different) serotonine isnt the problem...

Anyway good luck, Best whishes/Alex!


----------



## Zhuurst

I definitely have Nardil on my radar, the dietary restrictions I can deal with. I just want something that works for once!


----------



## sadness

Zhuurst said:


> I definitely have Nardil on my radar, the dietary restrictions I can deal with. I just want something that works for once!


I'm with you. I have a pdoc appt in 2 weeks. I'm going to say i've been on it before so I can get it prescribed. If he says no, I will just break down and tell him how horrible my life is. I'm sure he will comply!

I talked to another pdoc that i couldn't afford and she said "if you've been on it before i dont see why your pdoc would have a problem prescribing it"

I am guessing they mostly want to see that you are a responsible person and can stick to the diet. So dress up a little when you goto the doc, comb your hair, etc.


----------



## nickaus

Hi..


----------



## nickaus

How do you order off the net? Do u actually get the meds? Like xanax? Thanx


----------



## nickaus

Nardil.. how does the online order system work? Thx in advance


----------



## th14

I'm at 75mg and facing poop out/tolerance, will lowering my dose to around 30-45 for a week/week and a half allow me to regain a stronger effect again at least temporarily?


----------



## JohnnyAlonzo

Nardil won't give you a high. This medicine is supposed to bring you back to normal. This drug does not have tolerance or poop out. Euphoria is not normal and will never last. It could be side effects that are making you feel less then you want to. I would go back to 45 MG and stay there for a while and see what happens. Try spacing your dose out to 3 times a day as well. Trust me, going up from 75 might give you 1-2 days worth of Euphoria but after that it will go away and could cause insomnia and most likely hypotension. Good luck!


----------



## SSRIManiac

How do you get doctors to prescribe Nardil? In my clinic and many I know don't use it anymore. My doctor was very straight forward with me and said he would not prescribe it. Another doctor said he used to prescribe it but doesn't anymore, has some experience with it, talked about the strict diet, and said there's lack of scientific evidence that it even works for social anxiety. 

Right now I'm managing myself quite well with Paxil and Klonopin. It's no miracle. Maybe I just lost the incentive to go out and do things like talking to people. I'm not that scared anymore but don't see the validity and what I have to gain. Paxil gave me LOTS Of confidence, but I never tried nardil so I don't know.

I also have a mild form of aspergers and Paxil has helped a lot to the point where I can function normally, it gives me manic episodes sometimes and helps me act & articulate myself better. Maybe if I didn't have bipolar as well I would be *****ed completely b/c it's fun getting mania from antidepressants.


----------



## sadness

SSRIManiac said:


> How do you get doctors to prescribe Nardil? In my clinic and many I know don't use it anymore. My doctor was very straight forward with me and said he would not prescribe it. Another doctor said he used to prescribe it but doesn't anymore, has some experience with it, talked about the strict diet, and said there's lack of scientific evidence that it even works for social anxiety.
> 
> Right now I'm managing myself quite well with Paxil and Klonopin. It's no miracle. Maybe I just lost the incentive to go out and do things like talking to people. I'm not that scared anymore but don't see the validity and what I have to gain. Paxil gave me LOTS Of confidence, but I never tried nardil so I don't know.
> 
> I also have a mild form of aspergers and Paxil has helped a lot to the point where I can function normally, it gives me manic episodes sometimes and helps me act & articulate myself better. Maybe if I didn't have bipolar as well I would be *****ed completely b/c it's fun getting mania from antidepressants.


Tell a doc u havent seen before that you have been on it before and it worked great but gained too much weight so u got off it - worked first attempt for me


----------



## Nibs

SSRIManiac said:


> How do you get doctors to prescribe Nardil? In my clinic and many I know don't use it anymore. My doctor was very straight forward with me and said he would not prescribe it. Another doctor said he used to prescribe it but doesn't anymore, has some experience with it, talked about the strict diet, and said there's lack of scientific evidence that it even works for social anxiety.
> 
> Right now I'm managing myself quite well with Paxil and Klonopin. It's no miracle. Maybe I just lost the incentive to go out and do things like talking to people. I'm not that scared anymore but don't see the validity and what I have to gain. Paxil gave me LOTS Of confidence, but I never tried nardil so I don't know.
> 
> I also have a mild form of aspergers and Paxil has helped a lot to the point where I can function normally, it gives me manic episodes sometimes and helps me act & articulate myself better. Maybe if I didn't have bipolar as well I would be *****ed completely b/c it's fun getting mania from antidepressants.


After being with my psych for 3 years and trying many different medications, he himself brought up an MAOI even before I suggested it. I think he was as tired as I was of going in every month with negative or just no results.

Today he told me he has had many patients on it, most of them successful.


----------



## davidhanifin

*Nardil*

Hi Mr T, I just want to congratulate you on an excellent post on Nardil. I'd have to say what you posted about Nardil is 100% accurate in my experience with nardil also. I wish the average doctor or psychiatrist knew as much as you about Maoi-s but unfortunately they don't. After a four month break on Nardil I'm now back onto it at 60mg (started on 15mg and increased it up every week). Do you think it's possible to maintain weight loss at 60mg? I currently weigh 85kg. Nardil dosage often says 1mg for every 1kg of body weight. Do you think metformin maybe a good option to add in conjunction with a clean diet? Thanks heaps champ. Another great site you maybe interested in is dr babble and the medication forums they have.


----------



## sqnik8

I read all this positive stories on nardil its seems to me that nardil works like mdma kind of way.So i have couple of questions.
Does N makes you more focus and smarter?
Does Nardil affect on your balance abbilieties(i play soccer on semi-pro lvl and i'am worring about loosing my skills,SSRI did that)


----------



## watertouch

sqnik8 said:


> I read all this positive stories on nardil its seems to me that nardil works like mdma kind of way.So i have couple of questions.
> Does N makes you more focus and smarter?
> Does Nardil affect on your balance abbilieties(i play soccer on semi-pro lvl and i'am worring about loosing my skills,SSRI did that)


It will effect the beta-adrenerg receptors, so it will effect your play in a bad way, you will feel fatiuge,week and lactic acid.

I don't know right of the WADA list, but maybe PEA is on it..

The MAOi-Parnate kinda works the same, but you risk test posetive for Amphetamine/Stimulants on a simple test.


----------



## ChopSuey

sqnik8 said:


> I read all this positive stories on nardil its seems to me that nardil works like *1.* *mdma kind of way*.So i have couple of questions.
> Does N makes you more* 2.* *focus and smarter?*
> Does Nardil affect on your balance abbilieties* 3. (i play soccer on semi-pro lvl and i'am worring about loosing my skills,SSRI did that)*


1. Eh, no.

2. Not really, but anxiety in general drags cognitive abilities down the drain, once that's gone you'll have more of your resources to focus.

3. on a normal/high dose you'll notice it will impact your fitness in a negative way.


----------



## Narparit

Really feel sorry this drug doesn't exist in my country... I just read people experience, cant afford it.


----------



## Iri

I was on Nardil years ago, and unfortunately, it didn't do anything for me. Prozac was the only med that I had any success with, and now, it doesn't work either, so I am spiraling because I have not found anything that works. Any suggestions?


----------



## Burnaby

this might not be the forum to discuss new drugs, perhaps post it under a new thread to get more views and suggestions? cheers


----------



## th14

any nardil withdrawal experiences?


----------



## viper1431

I always get like a rebound depression, worse than my normal depression. Only lasts a week or so. Not fun of course.. I always stop cold turkey though which doesn't help.


----------



## th14

viper1431 said:


> I always get like a rebound depression, worse than my normal depression. Only lasts a week or so. Not fun of course.. I always stop cold turkey though which doesn't help.


Any rebound anxiety from gaba withdrawals or does your anxiety just go back to its pre nardil levels?


----------



## knight82

i need advice. i took ssris for 9 years, they didnt help me much, started emsam and took it for a few weeks then i had tingling and pins and needles in both of my hands and other side effects. so then my pshychiatrist put me on nardil, now i'm having really bad pain in my all my joints, but the pain is super bad in my right hand. my doctor put me on celebrex he thinks i just have inflmation. i dont think i do, i think its related to the nardil. any advice? is there a way to safely test if its the nardil causing my joint pain?


----------



## yodogsup

Man I had alot of hope for this medication. its been 5 months now
I guess my problems are just too many and too big.


----------



## watertouch

knight82 said:


> i need advice. i took ssris for 9 years, they didnt help me much, started emsam and took it for a few weeks then i had tingling and pins and needles in both of my hands and other side effects. so then my pshychiatrist put me on nardil, now i'm having really bad pain in my all my joints, but the pain is super bad in my right hand. my doctor put me on celebrex he thinks i just have inflmation. i dont think i do, i think its related to the nardil. any advice? is there a way to safely test if its the nardil causing my joint pain?


Well you could quit it, the MAOI- effect should be there for about 2weeks, i however don't think MAOI is the only way they work but there is also the effect of the pill, the tingeling in you hands could be due to "vasoconstriction"(narrowin of thin bloodvessals), how is you "scrotum" you got "stim-penis"?


----------



## shy-one

Anyone else on nardil experience a numbness of emotion? In the first few months it was euphoria, but after it settled down it was more just a numbness. I also have very little empathy on nardil, and hardly anything ever makes me angry. 

It seems like nardil puts a buffer on the low AND high end - it prevents you from getting depressed but it also prevents the highs of happiness. Overall I think its probably worth it as i'm no longer severely depressed or anxious, but sometimes I do miss feeling alive. I still get enjoyment out of things, just not as much as I used to before nardil.


----------



## Caedmon

shy-one said:


> Anyone else on nardil experience a numbness of emotion? In the first few months it was euphoria, but after it settled down it was more just a numbness. I also have very little empathy on nardil, and hardly anything ever makes me angry.
> 
> It seems like nardil puts a buffer on the low AND high end - it prevents you from getting depressed but it also prevents the highs of happiness. Overall I think its probably worth it as i'm no longer severely depressed or anxious, but sometimes I do miss feeling alive. I still get enjoyment out of things, just not as much as I used to before nardil.


Sounds like an SSRI!


----------



## shy-one

Caedmon said:


> Sounds like an SSRI!


Nope, because unlike SSRI's, nardil actually works.

Being almost anxiety and depression free is worth the trade off of not as much high emotion.


----------



## Learydp01

I have to agree with Caedmon, the numbness description you gave sounds a lot like how SSRI's make me feel. SSRI's did work for me, I guess, but it wasn't an effect that was very useful when you're also agoraphobic.


----------



## Nardiluseriam

*Moved UK to Spain / Nardil not available in Espana*

Hi , 
Need some advice please ?
I have been taking Nardil for many years and found it the only med to work for Atypical depression and Social Anxiety. I have moved from the UK to Spain to live/work (finding employment is tough so the chance to work in Spain was a great opportunity in many ways). anyway Nardil is simply not available in Spain full stop ! I have to rely on my UK doctor to keep prescribing and getting a friend to post the meds through by post. My fear is that one day the Authorities will put a stop to this practise and I will be without a Nardil supply. Any ideas please ? I have tried to go through an online pharmacy but they were not really helpful at all, despite their claim that they prescribe uk prescriptions, Any ideas ? Thanks in advance Nardiluseriam


----------



## Nibs

Nardiluseriam said:


> Hi ,
> Need some advice please ?
> I have been taking Nardil for many years and found it the only med to work for Atypical depression and Social Anxiety. I have moved from the UK to Spain to live/work (finding employment is tough so the chance to work in Spain was a great opportunity in many ways). anyway Nardil is simply not available in Spain full stop ! I have to rely on my UK doctor to keep prescribing and getting a friend to post the meds through by post. My fear is that one day the Authorities will put a stop to this practise and I will be without a Nardil supply. Any ideas please ? I have tried to go through an online pharmacy but they were not really helpful at all, despite their claim that they prescribe uk prescriptions, Any ideas ? Thanks in advance Nardiluseriam


I think if u have a legitimate prescription from your UK doctor, it shouldn't be a problem. Then again I know that customs can be quirky sometimes. But if you should run into any trouble I would have the UK doc vouche for you.


----------



## HIGHfrombeingSHY

Hi, folks.

I'm on venlafaxine (effexor) now, and thinking about chancing to nardil or parnate.

I know, I have to come off effexor for a couple of weeks to go on a MAOI, but I don't know if I'm mentally able to accomplish that.

What can I do? Taking another drug during the withdrawal?


----------



## Caedmon

HIGHfrombeingSHY said:


> Hi, folks.
> 
> I'm on venlafaxine (effexor) now, and thinking about chancing to nardil or parnate.
> 
> I know, I have to come off effexor for a couple of weeks to go on a MAOI, but I don't know if I'm mentally able to accomplish that.
> 
> What can I do? Taking another drug during the withdrawal?


You can try a bridge medication such as: trazodone, Remeron, atypical antipsychotics, various mood stabilizers. Great time to use benzodiazepines.

I switched from effexor to Parnate by tapering over 2 weeks, then stopping effexor and starting right away at 10 mg/day Parnate. (At such a low dose, it inhibits relatively little MAO, and takes time to accumulate anyway by which time the Effexor is gone.) It went fine.

This is *not* the officially recommended method though it is what my doctor recommended. I had no withdrawals.

I recommend Parnate.


----------



## donnez

*Hoe much time before starting nardil*

I assume you know you have to titrate off efforxer slowly. Your best bet is to augment your "wash period" with a last lasting benzo such as Clonozepam. Your doctor shouldnt have any issues prescribing it to you if they already know you're getting off effexor and moving on to Nardil. The clono will ensure you dont fall into a depressive state which could really kill your chances of a succesful migration. Also, Nardil is an awesome drug...
Please feel welcome to send any questions or comments you may have.


----------



## HIGHfrombeingSHY

Thanks for your reply guys, but I found out they don't allow MAOIs in my country anymore.:no


----------



## UltraShy

What's the officially recommended method for switching between Parnate & Nardil?

Note I said "official" since I strongly suspect you can simply swap one for the other with it being a non-event, though I also strongly suspect pdocs are going to insist on it being an event.


----------



## Learydp01

^ Well Nardil acts on GABA and Parnate is regarded as somewhat stimulating. You might be able to get away with that without problems, but I doubt it's a good idea. Their method of action is similar but not necessarily exactly the same iirc.

If a doctor approves of it then go right ahead. I still think a washout period would be smart. Even if you're able to go off meds without much withdrawal, an interaction between the two might make it difficult to tell which med is doing what.


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Nardil has been great, but ever since I bumped from 45 MG to 60 MG, the following problems have occurred (listed in order of importance to me):

1) Loss of sexual interest (no ability to ejaculate)
2) Extreme fatigue at night after work or random parts of day (like literally can't keep my eyes open)
3) #2 is ruining my sleeping pattern (i.e. sleep at 10pm, wake up at 5am, toss and turn until 7am, etc).

*Is there any supplement or practice/exercise to cure any of the above points? The ability to not ejaculate really concerns me. *

I've looked at OTC medicines and it seems like adding ginseng would be a good supplement to add to my diet? Also considering moving back down to 30mg and slowly going back up to 45mg.

(I live in California and have social anxiety disorder. Been on Nardil for 5 weeks.)


----------



## meedo

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Nardil has been great, but ever since I bumped from 45 MG to 60 MG, the following problems have occurred (listed in order of importance to me):
> 
> 1) Loss of sexual interest (no ability to ejaculate)
> 2) Extreme fatigue at night after work or random parts of day (like literally can't keep my eyes open)
> 3) #2 is ruining my sleeping pattern (i.e. sleep at 10pm, wake up at 5am, toss and turn until 7am, etc).
> 
> *Is there any supplement or practice/exercise to cure any of the above points? The ability to not ejaculate really concerns me. *
> 
> I've looked at OTC medicines and it seems like adding ginseng would be a good supplement to add to my diet? Also considering moving back down to 30mg and slowly going back up to 45mg.
> 
> (I live in California and have social anxiety disorder. Been on Nardil for 5 weeks.)


If it has been great for you at 45 mg , why have you bumped it up? can you go back down again ?


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

meedo said:


> If it has been great for you at 45 mg , why have you bumped it up? can you go back down again ?


I bumped up because I stopped feeling the effect of 45mg, and was advised by my doctor.

However, I told her that I now have sexual problems and she basically didn't really have an answer (wouldn't prescribe any other medication. not that i wanted to be on another med).

She said to drop back down to 45mg, but not sure if I'll be able to continue to feel the effect.

Kind of a weird scenario. Love the drug, but also really worried about my sex drive.


----------



## meedo

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> I bumped up because I stopped feeling the effect of 45mg, and was advised by my doctor.
> 
> However, I told her that I now have sexual problems and she basically didn't really have an answer (wouldn't prescribe any other medication. not that i wanted to be on another med).
> 
> She said to drop back down to 45mg, but not sure if I'll be able to continue to feel the effect.
> 
> Kind of a weird scenario. Love the drug, but also really worried about my sex drive.


How long have you been on 45 mg to get the effect started ? Did you have the sexual effects on 45 mg or 60 ?

I am just curious , sorry for many questions.

But let me try to help with what i know.

For daytime Fatigue, try a supplement called Modafinil. It promotes wakefulness and alertness. Many people take it with Nardil for this.

For sleep. i know many people found solutions for this while on Nardil, some people take Trazodone , there is also something called seroquel ( sp?) & Benadryl.

For Loss of sexual interest , i am not quite sure, i heard Maca powder is good. There is also dopamine agonists , but i have heard they have a bad withdrawal effect. You can discuss dopamine agonists with your doctor. One of their functions is to increase libido. ( not erections, but libido).

I think if you can get great results from Nardil , then you can manage these effects as much as you can . I hope what i wrote could help you on the right track. Please use google, u will find many with the same questions abut Nardil.


----------



## shy-one

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> I bumped up because I stopped feeling the effect of 45mg, and was advised by my doctor.


I'm in the same situation as you. Been on 45mg for the past 4 years (can't believe its been that long now!) and lately I feel it has stopped working. Going to bump it up to 60mg and see if I can handle the side effects. Have you noticed an increase in effectiveness going from 45mg to 60mg?

Another solution might be trying parnate instead, but not sure if that works as well for SA?


----------



## sneakerfreaker01

Definitely considering switching to Parnate. But as you mentioned, I have my doubts about the effects for SA, and I really would prefer not to stop a drug I'm currently on that is working. I'm hoping my body adjusts to these effects and that my sexual interest is back to normal soon. The only side effect I cant handle is the sexual one, but I'm taking a Goat Weed + Maca supplement right now to try and get myself going.

I definitely noticed an increase in effectiveness going from 45mg to 60mg. Was just hoping that it would last for a while so that I wouldn't have to bump to 75/90mg too soon.


----------



## Kayticlare

*


----------



## InFlames

I wouldn't get everyone hopes up. I've been on it since 2007 and I think it's great for depression but did nothing for my SA. In terms of effect on GABA compared to a benzo Nardil is like a pebble where a benzo is a shotgun blast.


----------



## Boppy

I wish I could find more info on what percentage of users get weight gain and how much on average. Any pointers???


----------



## robynhood

Nardil...Weird side effect??? Unsteady when walking. 
New member here, longtime Nardil user. 
Was on it as a teenager from 1982-88. Then again from 1994-2012 until it pooped out on me. Just restarted it 19 days ago. 15mg first week, 30mg second week, 45mg four days ago. At the time of the 45mg increase I began to notice I feel unsteady when I walk. I wouldn't describe it as feeling dizzy, but something just doesn't seem right. I don't remember this symptom from the two other times I was on it, and I've taken as much as 75mg in the past. Of course the sensation is just making my anxiety worse. I'd appreciate any thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## robynhood

InFlames said:


> I wouldn't get everyone hopes up. I've been on it since 2007 and I think it's great for depression but did nothing for my SA. In terms of effect on GABA compared to a benzo Nardil is like a pebble where a benzo is a shotgun blast.


Only problem is, with frequent/daily use, you are going to build up a tolerance to the benzo. That's not going to happen with the GABA effect from the Nardil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## yourfavestoner

I went up to 60 mg of Nardil a day a bit ago. Mood is better. But I feel like I have coordination problems at this dose. I am constantly bumping into the sides of tables, chairs etc. I feel like I can't walk in an exact straight line. Is this BP related? Please help.


----------



## daddylonglegs

yourfavestoner said:


> I went up to 60 mg of Nardil a day a bit ago. Mood is better. But I feel like I have coordination problems at this dose. I am constantly bumping into the sides of tables, chairs etc. I feel like I can't walk in an exact straight line. Is this BP related? Please help.


Could be. Do you feel dizzy when it happens? Does it happen closer to when you take the med? Does it happen more often when you first get up or start moving around?


----------



## shy-one

sneakerfreaker01 said:


> Nardil has been great, but ever since I bumped from 45 MG to 60 MG, the following problems have occurred (listed in order of importance to me):
> 
> 1) Loss of sexual interest (no ability to ejaculate)
> 2) Extreme fatigue at night after work or random parts of day (like literally can't keep my eyes open)
> 3) #2 is ruining my sleeping pattern (i.e. sleep at 10pm, wake up at 5am, toss and turn until 7am, etc).
> 
> *Is there any supplement or practice/exercise to cure any of the above points? The ability to not ejaculate really concerns me. *
> 
> I've looked at OTC medicines and it seems like adding ginseng would be a good supplement to add to my diet? Also considering moving back down to 30mg and slowly going back up to 45mg.
> 
> (I live in California and have social anxiety disorder. Been on Nardil for 5 weeks.)


I've been on 45mg for 4 years which was great, but it started losing its effectiveness lately so i've bumped it up to 52.5mg (half a tablet more). Even 60mg is too much for me with the side effects, especially insomnia. Like you, I always wake up during the night for at least 2 hours. It's a pain, but something i've become a bit more used to over the years, and a sacrifice I have to pay for less depression/anxiety.

I am pretty much constantly going back and fourth between 45mg and 52.5mg now, depending on my depression vs insomnia. It's an extremely fine line. I start feeling depressed on 45mg, so I increase it to 52.5mg, but then the insomnia kills me after a while so I take it back down to 45mg to recover from insomnia. Rinse and repeat.

Why don't you try the same and give 52.5mg a go, then go up and down as needed?


----------



## 546617

R.I.P he hasn't been here for over a month.
Either he is living life thanks to Nardil or dead...


----------



## stickpimp

Help! I cant decide if this medication is right for me. 

I don't have completely debilitating social anxiety, but I definitely have moderate social anxiety.

Normal day to day conversations are a decent challenge. I can just manage them. But Im largely unable to enjoy myself and be relaxed in social situations. I make the small talk, then politely leave, unable to continue the conversation and enjoy nice relaxed company. On the other hand, public speaking, classroom participation, both make me crap my pants with fear. I've always been that way. 

Im scared of the sexual side effects, and since I don't like the idea of taking meds in the first place... worried about withdrawal when I want to come off.

At the same time, the past 2 years of my life have been pretty sub-par, filled with anxiety and mild depression. It's better now, but I still cant relax in social situations unless I drink (4+ drinks) alcohol. I know that I am being hindered in terms of career development and social development by my social anxiety.

Any tips or advice? Just scared of taking the plunge. I don't want to be on this the rest of my life lol!


----------



## rm123

I could really use some advice. No one will prescribe me phenelzine bc I went through a bad period of drinking everyday which led to a drunken suicide attempt. My pdoc flat out refuses to consider it bc she's scared of being charged with negligence if i drank alcohol. I printed off lists of food, said it helped my family members etc -- no avail. She's prescribed me moclobemide instead, which feel just like sleeping pills and don't help at all, which I've read is no surprise. I only see her once a month, I feel like crying bc I know she'll tell me to give the moclobemide a try for another month, and after that she'll want to try a TCA she mention - the absolute WORST type of antidepressant for atypical depression, which I have as well as SA. I am having recurring thoughts of suicide because of how hopeless and unbearable I feel. (when i rang to tell my pdoc that, i got fobbed with a 'help worker' who was free at the time, who just gave me a number to a crisis hotline and hung up.) I live in the UK and just switching GPs and pdocs isn't an option here. Does anyone have any advice????


----------



## Thomasjs81

rm123 said:


> I could really use some advice. No one will prescribe me phenelzine bc I went through a bad period of drinking everyday which led to a drunken suicide attempt. My pdoc flat out refuses to consider it bc she's scared of being charged with negligence if i drank alcohol. I printed off lists of food, said it helped my family members etc -- no avail. She's prescribed me moclobemide instead, which feel just like sleeping pills and don't help at all, which I've read is no surprise. I only see her once a month, I feel like crying bc I know she'll tell me to give the moclobemide a try for another month, and after that she'll want to try a TCA she mention - the absolute WORST type of antidepressant for atypical depression, which I have as well as SA. I am having recurring thoughts of suicide because of how hopeless and unbearable I feel. (when i rang to tell my pdoc that, i got fobbed with a 'help worker' who was free at the time, who just gave me a number to a crisis hotline and hung up.) I live in the UK and just switching GPs and pdocs isn't an option here. Does anyone have any advice????


Even without that episode, you'll be hard pressed to get Nardil prescribed by an NHS psych. I'm doing well on a combo of Venlafaxine, Mirtazapine and Pregabalin. The Pregabalin is particularly worth trying. I'm only on 100mg and I'm so much more talkative and open. Could be the combo though. It's worth a go at least.


----------



## rm123

Thomasjs81 said:


> Even without that episode, you'll be hard pressed to get Nardil prescribed by an NHS psych. I'm doing well on a combo of Venlafaxine, Mirtazapine and Pregabalin. The Pregabalin is particularly worth trying. I'm only on 100mg and I'm so much more talkative and open. Could be the combo though. It's worth a go at least.


I've been on gabapentin with venlafaxine and it was unhelpful to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thomasjs81

rm123 said:


> I've been on gabapentin with venlafaxine and it was unhelpful to me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well we're all different. I refuse to believe that MAOI's are a one size fits all solution to SA. I speak after suffering for 17 years.


----------



## rm123

Thomasjs81 said:


> Well we're all different. I refuse to believe that MAOI's are a one size fits all solution to SA. I speak after suffering for 17 years.


They're not one size fits all but I do believe phenelzine will be helpful for me. Thanks for replying though
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thomasjs81

rm123 said:


> They're not one size fits all but I do believe phenelzine will be helpful for me. Thanks for replying though
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope it does. SA is a life-destroying condition that no one deserves to suffer from.


----------



## watertouch

UltraShy said:


> What's the officially recommended method for switching between Parnate & Nardil?
> 
> Note I said "official" since I strongly suspect you can simply swap one for the other with it being a non-event, though I also strongly suspect pdocs are going to insist on it being an event.


Gillman writes about it in the 2016 food n drug interactions... Page 40

http://www.psychotropical.com/images/Publications-pdfs/MAOI_diet_drug_interactions_2016.pdf


----------



## rm123

Does parnate or Nardil give you more energy? Does it help with cfs-like depressive symptoms??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Schneegestein

... ... .. .. 

Parnate is more stimulating, especially above doses higher than 80 mg. On Ultra - high dose it give the typically amphetamine feeling.

Nardil is more anxioliytic and calms.

I think it help in this type of depression. Everyone is different, but there is a VERY HIGH CHANCE.

I dont know something better.


----------



## bassareck

what is SA ???? I have several diagnosis, primarily BP1, several others, I've taken both Nardil and Parnate, both made me a little manic, however, I'm now on a mood stabilizer, and my psych and I may want to revisit an MAOI for me...I found them superior to any SSRI or SNRI's or tricyclics I've tried...!in fact those didn't work for me at all... totally useless for BP's.
And I didn't find following the diet difficult at all, all & all, I would recommend the MAOI for anyone with treatment resistant BP, or MDD.


----------



## bassareck

shy-one said:


> I've been on 45mg for 4 years which was great, but it started losing its effectiveness lately so i've bumped it up to 52.5mg (half a tablet more). Even 60mg is too much for me with the side effects, especially insomnia. Like you, I always wake up during the night for at least 2 hours. It's a pain, but something i've become a bit more used to over the years, and a sacrifice I have to pay for less depression/anxiety.
> 
> I am pretty much constantly going back and fourth between 45mg and 52.5mg now, depending on my depression vs insomnia. It's an extremely fine line. I start feeling depressed on 45mg, so I increase it to 52.5mg, but then the insomnia kills me after a while so I take it back down to 45mg to recover from insomnia. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> Why don't you try the same and give 52.5mg a go, then go up and down as needed?


Be careful what you mix with any MAOI, a lot of so called harmless herb's can interact very badly with them.
As well as a ton of RX.
Consult your pharmacist or psych MD, before trying anything new please.


----------



## Schneegestein

The little hypomanc effect is typically for an MAOI at the start. But it goes away after af few days or weeks.

If your BP you can also add a moodstabilzer or a low dose atypical neuroleptic in combination with a MAOI.

A bit hypomanic at the start is no reason for stop a medication which can help very nice.


----------



## Schneegestein

aah double post sorry.

If you feel severe insomnia you could try to augment with every tricyclic antridepressant just not imipramine and clomipramine.

Most of them can sedate very well like trimipramine, doxepin or amitriptyline.


----------



## rm123

I've heard you can't take amitryptiline on maoi's, at least that's what I got told about moclobemide. I'm suffering from insomnia too currently, though not bc of Nardil.

I've did some research and discovered parnate does not get prescribed in the UK - only in exceptional circumstances, such as your pharmacy agreeing to allow you to pay for the medication yourself, which i can't afford to do anyway.

It's kinda heartbreaking to me bc I suffer with chronic fatigue and I thought parnate would be a godsend to me, even more so than Nardil - but it's unlikely that obtaining a script for either of them is ever gonna happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SFC01

Hi rm123, 

Parnate does get prescribed in the UK as I have switched from Nardil to Parnate and back again a couple of times now and it neither was a exceptional circumstance. The fact you are already on a MAOI then cant see why you wouldn't be allowed to switch.

As for Amitriptyline and MAOIs, well you can take them together, as I currently take 50mg along with 75mg Nardil. I take mine for pain relief from an arm injury I suffered a while back, although I had to see my Psychiatrist regularly while titrating up to that dose and I`m not allowed to go higher.


----------



## nervy4

*Nardil Support thread*

mr t, I hope you are still out there!! I have many questions, or to anyone else with knowledge relating to Nardil.

I have taken Nardil for 25 years for out of the blue Panic attacks and has worked very well.

My panic attacks are gone now, but still suffer from depression. I have tried going off this med to the newer meds 2 times and have got severe depression, wondering recently if I would recover after being off for just 3 months, but recently the depression has lifted.

I have just found out my Vit D level is also very low and I am also to take a Vit D3 supplement. Is Vit D and D3 the same?? I also need calcium. Dr recommended calcium 500mg to 1000mg and Vit D3 2000IU daily, hard to find in this combination.

I was also wondering about the B Vit suppl. I used to take a Vitamin called Vicon C that did wonders, but no longer available, this is not to be confused with Vitron C, different med.

mr t, you are very knowledgeable about this med, I hope you are still here to advise or anyone else, I realize I should know after taking for 25 years!!

Thank you for any help,
nervy4


----------



## nervy4

*Nardil Support thread*

I have taken nardil for 25 years for panic disorder and works very well.

I also took xanax 1mg. 3 times a day/prn, then switched to klonopin 2mg. 2 times a day.

My question is has anyone experienced numbness to one side of the body with nardil? I started taking all 45 mg at bedtime. Has anyone taken like this all together? I normally took 3 times a day, but made me a little light headed, so took all at bedtime.

Thank you for any advice,
Nervy4


----------



## 33lorilane

*Nardil is pretty effective*

Nardil is pretty effective. I don't blame this on Nardil but sometimes it creates a new person. In my case I took on projects at work I normally wouldn't have. So now you have someone hopping on planes and working sometimes under stress on things that even normal people have trouble handling. Sometimes you overextend yourself. 
So please be careful and don't get into a relationship or a marriage you can't handle or get a job that is not really you.


----------



## ines88

Hello ! I take xanax xr 0,5 mg since november 2014 , and want to know about the weaning of xanax xr 0,5 mg, how can i do the weaning ?


Can anyone help me !


Thank you.


----------



## InFlames

robynhood said:


> Only problem is, with frequent/daily use, you are going to build up a tolerance to the benzo. That's not going to happen with the GABA effect from the Nardil.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah but even with the tolerance build up Nardils GABA effectiveness is about 1/1000th of a benzo. Also what makes you think Nardil doesn't have a tolerance.

A psychiatrist once told me Klonopin is like a shotgun blast to the GABA receptors compared to Nardil.


----------



## InFlames

I have a large supply of Nardil because I recently quit all anti-depressants but was still filling the scripts. I am currently trying out 120mg to see if it does anything, only been 3 days but I'll let you know what happens. I don't get any side effects from Nardil really except insomnia sometimes. Sexual Distention is not there either as I'm having the opposite problem and feel like I'm 13 again.


----------



## amber89

SFC01 said:


> Hi rm123,
> 
> Parnate does get prescribed in the UK as I have switched from Nardil to Parnate and back again a couple of times now and it neither was a exceptional circumstance. The fact you are already on a MAOI then cant see why you wouldn't be allowed to switch.
> 
> As for Amitriptyline and MAOIs, well you can take them together, as I currently take 50mg along with 75mg Nardil. I take mine for pain relief from an arm injury I suffered a while back, although I had to see my Psychiatrist regularly while titrating up to that dose and I`m not allowed to go higher.


This is NOT true, you CANNOT take Amitriptyline with Nardil. Maybe you can, but it's very dangerous. This is the sole reason i have not started on Nardil. My psychiatrist never tells me about small drug interactions, but he noted this is a big one, possibly fatal.


----------



## SFC01

This is NOT false, you CAN take Amitriptyline with Nardil !! and I wont go into the other things I`ve taken while on Nardil and was perfectly fine.

Of course, I wouldn't recommend trying it without supervision from a specialist, but MAOI's and TCA combo's are not that uncommon. I have since gone down to 20mg Amit a night due to heat intolerance but was on 50mg for a while with no issues. Have also been 0n 75mg Trimipramine, another TCA when I was on Nardil, and I can if i want ( but ain't going to bother) try Nortriptyline.


----------



## unsure00

Hoping I can get some advice on whether Nardil will be a good medication for me. I've tried so many different things over the past 8 years and clomipramine gave me the best relief for awhile (was able to talk to people without sweating and blushing) but I had to stop because it made my vision so blurry I could not physically function (could not see properly to even walk). 

The dietary restrictions with Nardil don't bother me. I don't drink alcohol. currently tapering off cymbalta after 6 months of use because I found no relief and the side effects are bad (also starting to cause vision disturbance). 

Some factors that I would like to address before starting nardil:
- I have always had very unstable mood, very irritable and get annoyed by trivial things/people easily. I always find most comfort on being on my own or with my dogs. Also quite sensitive and have obsessive thoughts about what people think/feel about me after I have done something wrong and will cry about it for days after. Will Nardil exacerbate this? 
- How long do people normally wait after finishing cymbalta before they can safely start using Nardil? The brain zaps I am getting from tapering off cymbalta are absolutely terrible and I've been in bed all day today crying about my situation
- has anyone experienced blurry vision using Nardil? This seems to be a common side effect in the past few things I have tried. I am studying full time and this is not a side effect I can put up with when I can't see properly to be able to get through my classes. 
- not sure where everyone is based but I am in Australia and can see a lot of people have difficulty getting a prescription for this. Is it difficult in Australia?
- I have read that nasal decongestants are contraindicated. I also suffer from chronic rhinitis and sometimes need to rely heavily on a decongestant because then I get full blown cold/flu-like symptoms that hang around for a couple of weeks. If nardil is as good as people report, I would choose relief for SA over my allergies. But what actually would happen if I used a corticosteroid nasal spray whilst taking nardil?


----------



## ThoughtProcessor

Hello, 
Is it ok to eat Pad Thai Noodles while taking Nardil? I've been taking it for almost two weeks and feel a lot better than before I started. Haven't had any food reactions yet, fortunately and have eaten quite a variety of things. All of which appear to be relatively safe from what I've read beforehand, but I find it difficult at times to find out if certain dishes are ok such as this one. Thank you.


----------



## ameris

ThoughtProcessor said:


> Hello,
> Is it ok to eat Pad Thai Noodles while taking Nardil? I've been taking it for almost two weeks and feel a lot better than before I started. Haven't had any food reactions yet, fortunately and have eaten quite a variety of things. All of which appear to be relatively safe from what I've read beforehand, but I find it difficult at times to find out if certain dishes are ok such as this one. Thank you.


no because it has a lot of soy sauce. I was reading someonewhere it even said pad thai specifically u cant eat.

But whats more important, SA gone or pad thai noodles.

I just hit on some random chicks today Im becoming a PLAYA on this med. THen again Im taking a benzo with it but still, this med is amazing.


----------



## Mancman

I ate Pad Thai when I was living in Thailand on Nardil and was never affected....Soy sauce is definitely a no....


----------



## capsulecollector

I want to try Nardil or Parnate. Either one, but probably Parnate if I had the choice. How hard it is to get a psychiatrist to prescribe an MAOI such as these? (correct me if one of them isn't an MAOI)


----------



## 546617

ameris said:


> no because it has a lot of soy sauce. I was reading someonewhere it even said pad thai specifically u cant eat.
> 
> But whats more important, SA gone or pad thai noodles.
> 
> I just hit on some random chicks today Im becoming a PLAYA on this med. THen again Im taking a benzo with it but still, this med is amazing.


what benzo ? do u only need benzo to hit on chicks?


----------



## Rafael23SA

I need nardil but they dont sell it here in Tijuana can someone helpme with that...


----------



## 546617

can anyone tell me why my nardil tablets r so sticky ? Its ridicilous.. like glue... 
also why does my blodpressure go up so high after i take my dose then go down again? its annoying


----------



## zeusko87

it is common for nardil. my blood pressure also goes up for 15-20 minutes if i take my pills all at once. that is why is better to spread out your dosage


----------



## pearjas

Does anyone keep something in their wallet about taking an MAOI inhibitor? If not, perhaps a necklace or something? Has anyone thought about doing this? I am on Nardil and was just curious.


----------



## 546617

@pearjas I mean you can if Nardil Works but if hasnt started working by bother. When I was on nardil I also wondered this but i end up not getting one.


----------



## pearjas

how long you been on Nardil now?


----------



## FaFaFooey

*Does this make sense. I'm now taking nardil*

This is NOT an abuse thread. There is a point

I've been taking Klonopin and a low dose of remeron for 6 years. 15mg remeron 4mg Klonopin a day.

Now I'm not sure of the culprit but I do not mind. I cannot get high off amphetamines, ecstasy(legally in my future visit to Holland) ), and methamphetamine(legally prescribed of course). For the last 5 years, probably longer I simple cannot get high. I can do amphetamines and go to sleep. NO, I AM NOT LOOKING TO GET HIGH

I think it's the remeron and has had a long term effect on my brain, OR it could be the klonopin or the combination. I simply do not know.

I used to get high rather easily and with low doses. Now nothing but a mild mood enhancement as opposed to thinking I'm superman.

On to Nardil. I've been taking Nardil both Greenstone and Gavis. Now to put the baby to bed. I do feel like they are two different drugs, in their daily rate of action(if that makes sense).

Gavis is much gradual in it's come up and seems to last longer and better at lower amounts but is much more sedating(lack of a MUCH better word).

now on to my question

PEA - I'll just qoute the pharmokenetics
"*By oral route, phenylethylamine's half-life is 5-10 minutes*;[2] endogenously produced PEA in catecholamine neurons has a half-life of roughly 30 seconds.[3] *In humans, PEA is metabolized by **phenylethanolamine* N-methyltransferase (PNMT),[3][37] *monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A),[10] monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B),*[9] semicarbazide-sensitive amine oxidases (SSAOs),[38] flavin-containing monooxygenase 3 (FMO3),[39] and aralkylamine N-acetyltransferase (AANAT).[40]

*N-Methylphenethylamine, an isomer of amphetamine, is produced in humans via the metabolism of phenethylamine by PNMT.[3][25][37] β-Phenylacetic acid is the primary urinary metabolite of phenethylamine and is produced via monoamine oxidase metabolism* and subsequent aldehyde dehydrogenase metabolism.[8] Phenylacetaldehyde is the intermediate product which is produced by monoamine oxidase and then further metabolized into β-phenylacetic acid by aldehyde dehydrogenase.[8][41] When the initial phenylethylamine concentration in the brain is low, brain levels can be increased 1000-fold when taking a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI), particularly a MAO-B inhibitor, and by 3-4 times when the initial concentration is high.

*OKAY, MY QUESTION.*

Has any experienced my issue when taking remeron or Klonopin, or both. I haven't tried any amphetamines in over 8 years and obviously since I stopped taking Remeron 3 months ago. I still take Klonopin. *I don't know if this still is a problem for me. i have no interest in finding out other than am i getting the most out of nardil i should be.*

Is the increase in PEA and it's related method of production\action in the body the same or very similar to amphetamines?

If one has a tolerance to amphetamines would Nardil not work as effectively? Like I said i haven't tried any amphetamines in 8 years but when I did it was like I had a huge tolerance. i have no idea why when i was for most of my life very sensitive to it.

I know the only way to know is try and find out but (1) I do not wish to use straight amphetamines and (2) I feel like that is what i am kind of doing with Nardil. *I want this to work and nardil has truly been a life saver for me.*

I have gavis and greenstone and some days i simply mix my dose. I'm trying to find the right brand and right combo that works the best. If I want something I find a way and these brands are both all legally prescribed by my Dr with her consent on my "method" as long as the dose stays consistent. She has me at 90mg but with her blessing i can go from 60mg-90mg looking for the right spot. Using either or both brands. I sold her on the difference in absorption at least and the working theory(stomach vs intestinal). She yelled at the pharmacist when he kept repeating they were identical, like a robot

(a)Does Remeron block or semi block the effects of Amphetamines?

(b)Does Klonopin block, not counteract, but block the effects of amphetamines?

Is the method of amphetamine like effects from nardil similar or the same as amphetamines and could I have the same problem?

Is the a long term effect from either after stopping if there is either (a) or (b)?

If you read this far...THANK YOU


----------



## FaFaFooey

capsulecollector said:


> I want to try Nardil or Parnate. Either one, but probably Parnate if I had the choice. How hard it is to get a psychiatrist to prescribe an MAOI such as these? (correct me if one of them isn't an MAOI)


They both are. I believe Parnate has more of an affinity for MAOI(b) and Nardil for MAOI(a) but they both work on both.

Parnate is supposed to give you more of as mood boost(think mild amphetamines) and less of a gaba boost (think benzo type calmness). The reverse for nardil.

For social phobia Nardil wins the race with people here it seems. There are some with social anxiety\phobia that like Parnate better. It's really an individual choice.

How long have you been seeing your Dr.?

My method was easy and I even got her to accept the difference in the two generics of nardil currently in production, nardil and Gavis.

My dr prescribes both and allows me to mix and match and find a spot that works for me. She gives me the leeway to go from 60mg-90mg looking for the right spot.

My method.

How long have you been seeing your Dr.? Are you seeing a Pdoc? How much does your currect dr. know of your previous medicinal therapy? Irregardless we can work with any situation but the one below is my mehtod and it works. Drs are afraid of Nardil. An older Pdoc you have a much better chance.

I told her I tried Zoloft( severe diarrhea, Paxil*(made me overly aggressive-very important)*, Prozac(no effect), Lexapro(no effect), Effexor(got me high like I was on speed), Remeron(slept all day), and a multi drug therapy with some of these and others. I've told her *I was told by my last Dr that I HAVE TREATMENT RESISTANT DEPRESSION and SOON I may have to simply try something like Nardil.*

I've had ER drs. More than one tell me they've never heard of Nardil. One had to go get his cheat sheet book to find out what it was. This scared the hell out of me because of the drug interactions. I go to a big hospital big city in California. One brushed me off like it didn't matter. I am not exaggerating. It simply isn't used anymore and young drs are not familiar with these drugs nor their interactions. I think the number is 68,000 worldwide on Nardil.


----------



## FaFaFooey

HYPOTENSION GONE-


Strange thing happened. I've been on nardil for 3 months hand I worked my way y=up to 90mg which seemed to work.
My Dr. switched me to to Gavis brand to see if that solved my most important side effect-Hypotension.
It didn't.
I have so much Nardil of both brands I decided to try mixing the brands-They are the same correct? That's what all the pharmacists tell me and argue with me about-only my Dr. understood why it might make a difference.

Well I began mixing the brands and it seemed to help but I couldn't find the correct combination and way to take them-all at once, divide through out the day, at night(no thank you). What I did notice is I craved coffee. And U realized I was craving coffee because it was getting me high. The amphetamine effect(which I get very little of) is enhanced with caffeine it seems, and that makes sense.


So I heard of a method to cure the severe hypotension. I had bothing to lose.
I jacked the dose up to 120 for a week(the method said 2 weeks) but I was worried about such a high dose and to be honest there is a story that goes along with that.
Then go back to your normal does.

IT WORKED. IT'S BEEN 3 WEEKS AND MY BLOOD PRESSURE IS STABLE. I HAVEN"T EVEN BEEN LIGHT HEADED

I was falling everywhere for about an hour a day. It sucked and i thought it would never go away. 3 weeks and stable. Small\medium decrease from lying to sitting to standing. Nothing that's go to make me fall down. no more dizziness or some thing I kind of miss the vision lights trippy look(someone might have name for this and better desription

I was having to take a knee every 10 feet sometimes. i had people come up to me to help. One time was at the hospital. it simple kicked in. I was admitted to emergency and the dr was an idiot. he had never heard of nardil and wasnt interested in it. He wanted to know why i was anemic and where i was bleeding from and why my blood pressure was so low. He put me through a ton of tests, i begged him to look up nardil and he finally did but still didn't care.

He finally released me with a quick follow up to my GP. Ive seen my GP for 17 years. We know each other pretty well. hes not the prescriber of Nardil but he handles my general health. He's a internist.

He said emergency room Drs are idiots and they are too focused on one thing-saving lives. if you are there you must be dying or something. If he simply looked at my blood history he would see i am always fluctuating in the borderline anemic area. It's my normal range and not something to worry about. It was low at the hospital but not too low to freak out.
He said it's worrisome that so many Drs are not familiar with MAOIs especially ER Dr.s They are the ones that need to need but they aren't.

Well the one thing with jacking the does up that high is I became a bit manic. I didnt sleep much and at one point spent all night driving my car thinking i was a cop. I knew I wasn't but the temptation to believe was too much. I would watch people out at 3am and follow some of them. See what they were doing-convince they were going to rob a gas station,ect.

Well that passed after a few days but I cannot say it wasnt somewhat enjoyable. An interesting place to visit but I definitely would not want to live there. 120mg is too much for me but for one week it was tolerable. 

I am back at to 75mg-90mg range and it's working wonders


----------



## Nardan

Quick q, since I start next week, I was wondering what sort of blood pressure monitor to get. I know it's not a wrist one according to the literature or something mentioned here. Is it some sort of upper arm/bicep one?


----------



## watertouch

Nardan said:


> Quick q, since I start next week, I was wondering what sort of blood pressure monitor to get. I know it's not a wrist one according to the literature or something mentioned here. Is it some sort of upper arm/bicep one?


Yes those are more accurate, make sure the size of the armcuff is right for your arm, take a measuring tape and measure the diameter of your arm.


----------



## Xenacat

Any ladies use Nardil? Don't see any.


----------



## Tandorini

Xenacat said:


> Any ladies use Nardil? Don't see any.


I do!


----------



## Xenacat

Tandorini said:


> I do!


Do you like it? It is the same as the guys?


----------



## Tandorini

Xenacat said:


> Do you like it? It is the same as the guys?


Well, this is the post I started a while back:

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/side-effects-of-nardil-do-they-go-away-2003537/

If I like Nardil? It's definitely the worst medication I've ever been on when it comes to side effects. If it wasn't for that this basically is my last shot of ever getting rid of this depression, I would have gone off it.

But: It is working on my depression and the anxiety that comes with my depression. I'm not completely well, but I am feeling a whole lot better. My life isn't very exciting atm. The fatigue keeps me from my normal routine of working out, and going back to full time work seems impossible. But I feel better, I really do. As I told my doctor - I'd rather sleep for 18 hours a day and feel good for the six hours I stay awake.

I never had the boosts in mood some of the guys talk about. But a lot of them is struggling mainly with SA I think. I started Nardil while in the hospital after a failed suicide attempt. Maybe my depression was too serious, so that even Nardil couldn't give me a big enough boost. Only a theory of mine, I don't know.

A lot of the guys here are talking about different kinds of medication to augment Nardil, or to get rid of the fatigue. I don't think I'd ever be interested in that. I'll just hope the side effects subside. I don't think my doctors would let me add medication for narcolepsy either, unless I've been on Nardil for a couple of years and side effects still won't go away.

Would I recommend Nardil? To people in my situation, yes. But try all the normal stuff first. If that doesn't work, if therapy doesn't work, then Nardil is there. And it probably will work. It's a last option for me, but an option that I have very much confidence in.


----------



## ron0071

I've only been on Nardil for a little over 4 weeks now and it feels like it's actually starting to help with my depression. One thing i've noticed is I'm more agitated. Is this normal? Is there something can be added to the nardil to help with this. Something that won't make me lethargic and tired? I'm hoping I can stay on the nardil since it's the only thing that seems to be helping and I've tried many meds over the years.


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

If I was to ask god for a cure today, I would be sent a lifetime supply of this stuff you guys are talking about. It is a huge problem because doctors don't want to prescribe it unless nothing else has worked. 

Anyways, not to complain too much about this problem, but I just hope there is a chance for me to get back on it again sometime in the future.


----------



## Iza707

ron0071 said:


> I've only been on Nardil for a little over 4 weeks now and it feels like it's actually starting to help with my depression. One thing i've noticed is I'm more agitated. Is this normal? Is there something can be added to the Nardil to help with this. Something that won't make me lethargic and tired? I'm hoping I can stay on the nardil since it's the only thing that seems to be helping and I've tried many meds over the years.


Nardil can cause medication induced bipolar disorder.. believe it is called bipolar IV. You might not be bipolar but it mimics it. Even if you never shows signs of being bipolar or are barely on the spectrum, this med can really bring it out. I became angry and pissed off easily on it even though I felt great anxiety and panic wise. I started augmenting with Valproic Acid (Depakote) and it works wonders to stop the agitation. That was one of the reasons I had stopped it a couple times in the past. So, maybe ask your pdoc if this might be an option for you.


----------



## phebus

Been on Nardil + Clonazpeam for 10 years happy to answer any questions. Yes it does come with strong side effects particularly at the higher doeses but there's not such thing as a free lunch and nothing else even comes close to the efficiency of this combo. Therefore take as much as you need to function, but not so much that you get needless side effects, the side effects dissipate rapidly as you go into the lower doeses.. Therefore my conclusion is to take the lowest amount you need. Also I have never got drunk while taking these meds.. Final conclusion: it's worth the side effects, quality of life dramatically improved.


----------



## WillComp

phebus said:


> Been on Nardil + Clonazpeam for 10 years happy to answer any questions. Yes it does come with strong side effects particularly at the higher doeses but there's not such thing as a free lunch and nothing else even comes close to the efficiency of this combo. Therefore take as much as you need to function, but not so much that you get needless side effects, the side effects dissipate rapidly as you go into the lower doeses.. Therefore my conclusion is to take the lowest amount you need. Also I have never got drunk while taking these meds.. Final conclusion: it's worth the side effects, quality of life dramatically improved.


That's very encouraging! I'm currently on nardil + Clonazepam (only take Clonazepam as needed, usually 4 times a week). I started Clonazepam about 6 yrs ago, noticed the more I take it, the less effective it is for me. Four .5 mg pills a week seems to make them work perfectly. However it's only effective for 3 hours for me and then wears off.

I started nardil in March, and I've been at 60mg for 53 days (almost 8 weeks). So far it's been inconsistent. Some days are amazing and others no so much. I mostly suffer with SA, and on my best day.. a couple weeks ago.. I felt like my SA was completely destroyed.

At the same time, I'm still dealing with horrendous side effects, everything you can think of. Will these side effects subside soon? I'm fine with them if they become manageable; right now I'm still fainting and can't do a lot of normal things because of the side effects. Would be nice if they wore off a bit soon.


----------



## Cassoulet94

WillComp said:


> phebus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Been on Nardil + Clonazpeam for 10 years happy to answer any questions. Yes it does come with strong side effects particularly at the higher doeses but there's not such thing as a free lunch and nothing else even comes close to the efficiency of this combo. Therefore take as much as you need to function, but not so much that you get needless side effects, the side effects dissipate rapidly as you go into the lower doeses.. Therefore my conclusion is to take the lowest amount you need. Also I have never got drunk while taking these meds.. Final conclusion: it's worth the side effects, quality of life dramatically improved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's very encouraging! I'm currently on nardil + Clonazepam (only take Clonazepam as needed, usually 4 times a week). I started Clonazepam about 6 yrs ago, noticed the more I take it, the less effective it is for me. Four .5 mg pills a week seems to make them work perfectly. However it's only effective for 3 hours for me and then wears off.
> 
> I started nardil in March, and I've been at 60mg for 53 days (almost 8 weeks). So far it's been inconsistent. Some days are amazing and others no so much. I mostly suffer with SA, and on my best day.. a couple weeks ago.. I felt like my SA was completely destroyed.
> 
> At the same time, I'm still dealing with horrendous side effects, everything you can think of. Will these side effects subside soon? I'm fine with them if they become manageable; right now I'm still fainting and can't do a lot of normal things because of the side effects. Would be nice if they wore off a bit soon.
Click to expand...

How much time did it take for the hypotension and weakness to appear ?


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> I started nardil in March, and I've been at 60mg for 53 days (almost 8 weeks). So far it's been inconsistent. Some days are amazing and others no so much. I mostly suffer with SA, and on my best day.. a couple weeks ago.. I felt like my SA was completely destroyed.


I noticed the inconsistency at 60mg when I first started but it became consistent at 75mg for me - that extra 15mg seemed to make a world of difference.


----------



## phebus

WillComp said:


> That's very encouraging! I'm currently on nardil + Clonazepam (only take Clonazepam as needed, usually 4 times a week). I started Clonazepam about 6 yrs ago, noticed the more I take it, the less effective it is for me. Four .5 mg pills a week seems to make them work perfectly. However it's only effective for 3 hours for me and then wears off.
> 
> I started nardil in March, and I've been at 60mg for 53 days (almost 8 weeks). So far it's been inconsistent. Some days are amazing and others no so much. I mostly suffer with SA, and on my best day.. a couple weeks ago.. I felt like my SA was completely destroyed.
> 
> At the same time, I'm still dealing with horrendous side effects, everything you can think of. Will these side effects subside soon? I'm fine with them if they become manageable; right now I'm still fainting and can't do a lot of normal things because of the side effects. Would be nice if they wore off a bit soon.


Hi Willcomp,

I just take a small amount of Clonazpeam in the evening so that I can get to sleep. I take as little as possible because it affects your memory and cognitive abilities. Once Nardil starts working for you, you won't have to rely on the Clonazepam so much.

I can take up to 3 months to feel the full benefit of just going from 45mg to 60mg. I believe this is because Nardil relies on the cumulative effect of the building up of Neurotransmitters. I had to go to 75mg when I first tried it. Trust me once it starts working you won't be thinking "is it working yet?".

Side effects are a downfall, there's no such thing as a free lunch. People say that they diminish - In my experience they do a bit, but not as much as I hoped. Basically you just get used to them and learn how to manage them the best you can. If you are fainting and can't do normal things that should go away though. I found a good trick was when I went from 75mg to 60mg the side effects reduced, bit I still managed to keep some of the confidence that I had built up when I was at 75mg. I was able to do it again going from 60mg to 45mg.

Good luck, enjoy it, and use it as a tool to put yourself it situations that you wouldn't otherwise do to build your confidence. Be careful at the higher doses you can get a bit manic and overly aggressive. Also some people say that the drug stops working for them. Short answer - it doesn't. Sometimes when you increase the dosage you get a bit manic for a couple of days (you are not supposed to feel this good), as you have loads of neurotransmitters and the brain takes a while to respond to this and tries and level things out a bit. Best of luck!


----------



## phebus

Hi Willcomp,

I just take a small amount of Clonazpeam in the evening so that I can get to sleep. I take as little as possible because it affects your memory and cognitive abilities. Once Nardil starts working for you, you won't have to rely on the Clonazepam so much.

I can take up to 3 months to feel the full benefit of just going from 45mg to 60mg. I believe this is because Nardil relies on the cumulative effect of the building up of Neurotransmitters. I had to go to 75mg when I first tried it. Trust me once it starts working you won't be thinking "is it working yet?".

Side effects are a downfall, there's no such thing as a free lunch. People say that they diminish - In my experience they do a bit, but not as much as I hoped. Basically you just get used to them and learn how to manage them the best you can. If you are fainting and can't do normal things that should go away though. I found a good trick was when I went from 75mg to 60mg the side effects reduced, bit I still managed to keep some of the confidence that I had built up when I was at 75mg. I was able to do it again going from 60mg to 45mg.

Good luck, enjoy it, and use it as a tool to put yourself it situations that you wouldn't otherwise do to build your confidence. Be careful at the higher doses you can get a bit manic and overly aggressive. Also some people say that the drug stops working for them. Short answer - it doesn't. Sometimes when you increase the dosage you get a bit manic for a couple of days (you are not supposed to feel this good), as you have loads of neurotransmitters and the brain takes a while to respond to this and tries and level things out a bit. Best of luck!


----------



## WillComp

Cassoulet94 said:


> How much time did it take for the hypotension and weakness to appear ?


Only a few days after starting 60. So about 7 weeks ago.

At 45, I was fine, no side effects at all. Normal libido and could finish in 5 minutes if I wanted to. A few days after increasing to 60, every horrendous side effect appeared.


----------



## WillComp

SFC01 said:


> I noticed the inconsistency at 60mg when I first started but it became consistent at 75mg for me - that extra 15mg seemed to make a world of difference.


How long did you stay at 60mg? I've been on 60mg for 8 weeks. Most days are amazing, like most days this week. Yesterday and today I noticed the dizziness and hypotension has subsided. I got right out of bed and my car without waiting. And no dizziness. I still get a little dizzy and a few white-out episodes occasionally, but nothing like before.

Tbh, I'm afraid to go up to 75. Will the worst of the sides return? I'm also hesitant to pay anymore for medication. I have to pay full price until I reach my deductible, which is 2k annually. And this medication is expensive as hell every month.


----------



## WillComp

phebus said:


> Hi Willcomp,
> 
> I just take a small amount of Clonazpeam in the evening so that I can get to sleep. I take as little as possible because it affects your memory and cognitive abilities. Once Nardil starts working for you, you won't have to rely on the Clonazepam so much.
> 
> I can take up to 3 months to feel the full benefit of just going from 45mg to 60mg. I believe this is because Nardil relies on the cumulative effect of the building up of Neurotransmitters. I had to go to 75mg when I first tried it. Trust me once it starts working you won't be thinking "is it working yet?".
> 
> Side effects are a downfall, there's no such thing as a free lunch. People say that they diminish - In my experience they do a bit, but not as much as I hoped. Basically you just get used to them and learn how to manage them the best you can. If you are fainting and can't do normal things that should go away though. I found a good trick was when I went from 75mg to 60mg the side effects reduced, bit I still managed to keep some of the confidence that I had built up when I was at 75mg. I was able to do it again going from 60mg to 45mg.
> 
> Good luck, enjoy it, and use it as a tool to put yourself it situations that you wouldn't otherwise do to build your confidence. Be careful at the higher doses you can get a bit manic and overly aggressive. Also some people say that the drug stops working for them. Short answer - it doesn't. Sometimes when you increase the dosage you get a bit manic for a couple of days (you are not supposed to feel this good), as you have loads of neurotransmitters and the brain takes a while to respond to this and tries and level things out a bit. Best of luck!


Hey phebus - welcome to the forums.

I haven't had to rely on Clonazepam as much lately either. Last week I only took 2. That's the fewest I've taken in a week in 3 years. I wanted to go 100 hours without a Clonazepam and made it, no problem. I'm not getting completely off of it, but it's nice knowing I don't have to rely on it as much.

I've heard a lot of people say the same thing: "Trust me once it starts working you won't be thinking "is it working yet?".

What does it feel like, and how exactly do you know? Did it hit you all at once? So far, my SA relief has been subtle. Sometimes I don't even know it's working or not because it's been inconsistent in the last 8 weeks, so I have to "test it out". For example today I wasn't sure if it was working so I went to a high anxiety place, a deli where you have to stand in line and order at the register with this loudmouth jokester type. I was nervous as usual driving over there. Once I got in line, I wanted nardil to work so I decided in my mind I'd be as confident as possible. Got to the front and spoke to the manager as normally and as confident as anyone else. I was completely free of SA. He even joked with me and I calmly laughed back.

Once I got to my table I noticed he was making the rounds, asking each table how everything was. I got a little anxious but told myself, 'try hard to be normal'. So he comes by, and I start talking to him like he's my brother, as relaxed as anyone. We chatted about the food, and I kept talking and asking questions longer than any other table. Felt amazing. Is this all in my head, like it's psychological, or is this really nardil working. Before nardil I couldn't talk to anyone, I couldn't even basically function. My SA was so severe and overwhelming it was killing me.


----------



## phebus

WillComp said:


> Hey phebus - welcome to the forums.
> 
> I haven't had to rely on Clonazepam as much lately either. Last week I only took 2. That's the fewest I've taken in a week in 3 years. I wanted to go 100 hours without a Clonazepam and made it, no problem. I'm not getting completely off of it, but it's nice knowing I don't have to rely on it as much.
> 
> I've heard a lot of people say the same thing: "Trust me once it starts working you won't be thinking "is it working yet?".
> 
> What does it feel like, and how exactly do you know? Did it hit you all at once? So far, my SA relief has been subtle. Sometimes I don't even know it's working or not because it's been inconsistent in the last 8 weeks, so I have to "test it out". For example today I wasn't sure if it was working so I went to a high anxiety place, a deli where you have to stand in line and order at the register with this loudmouth jokester type. I was nervous as usual driving over there. Once I got in line, I wanted nardil to work so I decided in my mind I'd be as confident as possible. Got to the front and spoke to the manager as normally and as confident as anyone else. I was completely free of SA. He even joked with me and I calmly laughed back.
> 
> Once I got to my table I noticed he was making the rounds, asking each table how everything was. I got a little anxious but told myself, 'try hard to be normal'. So he comes by, and I start talking to him like he's my brother, as relaxed as anyone. We chatted about the food, and I kept talking and asking questions longer than any other table. Felt amazing. Is this all in my head, like it's psychological, or is this really nardil working. Before nardil I couldn't talk to anyone, I couldn't even basically function. My SA was so severe and overwhelming it was killing me.


You know it's working because you will feel more confident and energized. You wont even be thinking about SA because it won't really be an issue. It sort of creeps up on you a bit though. Also sometimes it gets stronger than other times - the baseline is obviously high, but you get smallish fluctuations from that baseline.

"Once I got to my table I noticed he was making the rounds, asking each table how everything was. I got a little anxious but told myself, 'try hard to be normal'. So he comes by, and I start talking to him like he's my brother, as relaxed as anyone. We chatted about the food, and I kept talking and asking questions longer than any other table. Felt amazing. Is this all in my head, like it's psychological, or is this really nardil working. Before nardil I couldn't talk to anyone, I couldn't even basically function. My SA was so severe and overwhelming it was killing me."

*Yeah that's the Nardil working, just be careful not to overdo the new found confidence, you may get people asking you if you're on drugs . When you're on the high doses on Nardil people can act like they are on methamphetamine, full of confidence, energized and indestructible - which can be nice after you've had the crap beaten out of you mentally for years i must admit. To get to that you need to be on 75mg, from 60mg to 75mg the effects pretty much double..


----------



## WillComp

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WillComp

Holy crap! I had no idea the effects pretty much double going from 60 to 75. Now I'm seriously considering going up to 75.. but I don't think I'm ready quite yet. I thought my sides we're subsiding a bit.. until yesterday. Sides returned big time yesterday. Also came close to passing out.

When you first went up to 75, how long had you been on 60? I've been on 60 for almost 2 months.

Also, do the sides get worse when going from 60 to 75? I'm sick of feeling like I'm going to faint. The last thing I want is to faint in front of someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cassoulet94

WillComp said:


> Holy crap! I had no idea the effects pretty much double going from 60 to 75. Now I'm seriously considering going up to 75.. but I don't think I'm ready quite yet. I thought my sides we're subsiding a bit.. until yesterday. Sides returned big time yesterday. Also came close to passing out.
> 
> When you first went up to 75, how long had you been on 60? I've been on 60 for almost 2 months.
> 
> Also, do the sides get worse when going from 60 to 75? I'm sick of feeling like I'm going to faint. The last thing I want is to faint in front of someone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The right dose is different for everyone. The goal is to have significant mao inhibition. A good way to know if it is the case is to watch blood pressure, as it is supposed to drop with mao inhibition (see gillman articles). Also some pdoc who use maois say that a rule of thumb is to reach a dose of 1mg/kg. Thought it is by no mean a universal rule it is supposed to allow sufficient mao inhibition for a lot of people.

If you are faiting because of low blood pressure then you have probably reached significant mao inhibition. It doesn't mean that a higher dose would not benefit you but unhappily side effects will very likely increase. If you faint with 60mg, upping the dose would be a bad idea.


----------



## Cassoulet94

One week on 60mg and I still don't have any side effects. I will stay at least one month on that dose but I guess that no OH mean I will have to go higher.


----------



## WillComp

I don't have a personal monitor, so I checked my bp at the grocery store tonight. I haven't felt dizzy or had OH symptoms at all today (quite different than yesterday) and was relaxed as could be while taking my bp. I thought my pressure would be low so I was surprised to see the results. I took 2 readings: 1st was 128/83 and 2nd was 140/84. The last time I had my pressure taken was on May 1st (almost 2 months ago) and it was 149/83. I remember I was more stressed on May 1st. 

Is this uncommon for my pb to still be up in the higher range? Or is this normal, since I've gained 10 lbs and eat more desserts and work out less than back on May 1st? By the way I plan to quit the desserts and start working out routinely again starting tomorrow.


----------



## phebus

WillComp said:


> Holy crap! I had no idea the effects pretty much double going from 60 to 75. Now I'm seriously considering going up to 75.. but I don't think I'm ready quite yet. I thought my sides we're subsiding a bit.. until yesterday. Sides returned big time yesterday. Also came close to passing out.
> 
> When you first went up to 75, how long had you been on 60? I've been on 60 for almost 2 months.
> 
> Also, do the sides get worse when going from 60 to 75? I'm sick of feeling like I'm going to faint. The last thing I want is to faint in front of someone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I had been on 60 for 2 or 3 months before I went up to 75. Probably no difference between 2 and 3 months really. Yeah the side effects do get worse as you move to 75, I've never felt like I was going to faint though I'm not sure what's happening there. I'd suggest trying 75 and then you can evaluate where you would like to be to get the best positive effects/side effects. I didn't have to pay for my medication, how much does it cost? Hope it's not too much.:smile2:


----------



## phebus

I think I had been on 60 for 2 or 3 months before I went up to 75. Probably no difference between 2 and 3 months really. Yeah the side effects do get worse as you move to 75, I've never felt like I was going to faint though I'm not sure what's happening there. I'd suggest trying 75 and then you can evaluate where you would like to be to get the best positive effects/side effects. I didn't have to pay for my medication, how much does it cost? Hope it's not too much.:smile2:


----------



## WillComp

phebus said:


> I think I had been on 60 for 2 or 3 months before I went up to 75. Probably no difference between 2 and 3 months really. Yeah the side effects do get worse as you move to 75, I've never felt like I was going to faint though I'm not sure what's happening there. I'd suggest trying 75 and then you can evaluate where you would like to be to get the best positive effects/side effects. I didn't have to pay for my medication, how much does it cost? Hope it's not too much.:smile2:


I had an HSA account with $500 in it and just went past the $500, so now I have to pay on my own till I reach my deductible, which is 2k. Every month, it's $80 out of my own pocket, will be more if I decide to go up to 75mg. Every psych visit costs $200 as well, which is every 2-3 months. Gets very expensive. I'm gonna ask the psych if I can start going to my regular dr now and have him take charge of my Nardil refills.

This is a hard decision. My next appointment with the psych is in 1 week; if I don't ask for 75 I'll probably have to wait 2-3 months. Should I ask for 75 and continue taking 60 until I feel my body is ready for it?

Thanks for all the help so far. I wouldn't know what to do without these boards. This place has saved my life!


----------



## phebus

Hi WillComp

It seems like you are getting good benefit from 60 and you already have a fair few side effects. If you think you would benefit from the Nardil working quite a bit stronger (all the positive effects are significantly increased) move up to 75, however the side effects will also increase a fair bit. If you feel comfortable I would suggest trying 75, the best that can happen is that you start kicking *** even more, the worst that can happen is that you find it too much and you can go back to 60 whenever you want. It's nice to know you're upper limit and if you decide to cut back to a lower dosage you will find the side effects a piece of cake.

Babbling thoughts to anyone that's interested 

What do you take to sleep to combat the Nardil induced insomnia? And have you tried drinking on Nardil and how was it? I never drunk much on it, either the Nardil or the Klonopin never seemed to mix well with alcohol and I wouldn't feel so good. I suspect it's the Nardil because I know people who take Klonopin and still can get a got buzz from alcohol.

Another issue I had was that my life kinda turned to crap as soon as I stopped taking Nardil, anyone else found this and what did you do? Run back to it? Take something else? Learn to accept yourself more? Or does it just go away over time..

Also are there any people here that are semi-high achieving or done something they are pretty proud of. Or are we destined to be not to high achieving? Sometimes I think I'm aiming too high in life and then I get my *** kicked, but when I aim too low I feel kinda ashamed of myself and don't have any pride. Or maybe a problem is that we/I don't have any self-esteem and are looking for achievements to prop ourselves up on..

Thanks


----------



## Tandorini

Concerning alcohol, I've never gotten close to drunk on Nardil, but I have had up to three units several nights. Usually drinking quite slowly, having a glass of wine and a beer or two with a friend, over a span of maybe 4-5 hours. Doesn't make me feel any different from when I was drinking while not on Nardil.


----------



## WillComp

phebus said:


> Hi WillComp
> 
> It seems like you are getting good benefit from 60 and you already have a fair few side effects. If you think you would benefit from the Nardil working quite a bit stronger (all the positive effects are significantly increased) move up to 75, however the side effects will also increase a fair bit. If you feel comfortable I would suggest trying 75, the best that can happen is that you start kicking *** even more, the worst that can happen is that you find it too much and you can go back to 60 whenever you want. It's nice to know you're upper limit and if you decide to cut back to a lower dosage you will find the side effects a piece of cake.
> 
> Babbling thoughts to anyone that's interested
> 
> What do you take to sleep to combat the Nardil induced insomnia? And have you tried drinking on Nardil and how was it? I never drunk much on it, either the Nardil or the Klonopin never seemed to mix well with alcohol and I wouldn't feel so good. I suspect it's the Nardil because I know people who take Klonopin and still can get a got buzz from alcohol.
> 
> Another issue I had was that my life kinda turned to crap as soon as I stopped taking Nardil, anyone else found this and what did you do? Run back to it? Take something else? Learn to accept yourself more? Or does it just go away over time..
> 
> Also are there any people here that are semi-high achieving or done something they are pretty proud of. Or are we destined to be not to high achieving? Sometimes I think I'm aiming too high in life and then I get my *** kicked, but when I aim too low I feel kinda ashamed of myself and don't have any pride. Or maybe a problem is that we/I don't have any self-esteem and are looking for achievements to prop ourselves up on..
> 
> Thanks


Thanks phebus. I decided I'll ask the psych next Tuesday for 75, and then stay at 60 till I feel I'm ready. That way I can stock up a little on nardil over the next few months.

Regarding nardil and alcohol, I only drank while I was at 45, and at that time I didn't have any side effects. I didn't take klonopin that day.. just 45 of nardil. I only drank 2 bottles of beer with my dinner and felt more relaxed than I ever have in public. I went from tense and nervous to completely calm in a matter of 20 min or so. That's the only experience I've had so far with mixing nardil and alcohol.

My insomnia is getting really bad now. It's weird that some side effects are appearing for the first time after 8 steady weeks at 60mg. I wake up every hour, and I'm wide awake. Since I've only had it for the last 5 nights, it hasn't bothered me yet. I kinda like staying awake. There's nothing I can do so I don't worry about it. I find it's a good time to be introspective and think positive thoughts and prepare for what I have to do the next day. For me, it feels like the last few years have flown by.. time is going by way too fast.. and staying awake at night gives me that one rare moment where time seems to finally slow down. When it starts becoming bothersome, not sure what I'll do. I won't take another pill; I'll probably try to combat it naturally. I might push myself to work out extra hard in the evenings.. make my workouts as intense as I can to make my body want more sleep. It probably won't work but that'll be my first step. :teeth

I'm not planning to stop nardil or klonopin. I'm going to be on these meds for life. I've heard the horror stories, and I made that tough decision to start, so I'm in it for the long haul. In laymen terms, I have a chemical imbalance in my brain and nothing has worked to relieve anxiety over the years, except klonopin and nardil. So I don't plan to stop. If I don't need them, I'll still take the lowest dose without quitting or making myself sick. I've never felt better and more confident, despite the sides, so I'm gonna try to make the best use of my time. I decided I'm gonna ask to volunteer at a church, something low-key but will give me the opportunity to meet people and see how I do. I'm not ready mentally to make super close friends but it would be nice to have some type of friend that I can see once a week or so. I'm not a religious person and don't believe in anything taught by religions, but I know of a church that is big enough and very unintimidating and is more on the liberal side, which I personally like. I'm gonna take it one step at a time.. I think that good connections in life always have the potential to lead to greater things.


----------



## phebus

Hi WillComp

Regarding the insomnia you can get a good nights sleep (8 hours+) on pretty much any dose of Nardil if you take enough Klonopin right before you go to bed. I've heard of people taking other things but I've never tried anything else.
That's cool that you are going to volunteer at a church, enjoying the company of others is a pretty positive thing.
What other medications have you tried? Have you tried any tricyclics and did they work?? Cheers.


----------



## WillComp

phebus said:


> Hi WillComp
> 
> Regarding the insomnia you can get a good nights sleep (8 hours+) on pretty much any dose of Nardil if you take enough Klonopin right before you go to bed. I've heard of people taking other things but I've never tried anything else.
> That's cool that you are going to volunteer at a church, enjoying the company of others is a pretty positive thing.
> What other medications have you tried? Have you tried any tricyclics and did they work?? Cheers.


I've only taken Klonopin twice before going to bed, and I remember getting a great nights sleep. It's nice having that option available especially now that I'm limiting the amount of Klonopin I take. I usually take 4-5 Klonopins a week, and this week I only took 2. So if insomnia becomes a problem down the road, it won't hurt to take 1 more at night.

I'm currently on Klonopin, Nardil and Atenolol. Two years ago I tried Zoloft and didn't work for me. I thought those side effects were bad; Nardil is so much worse. But at least it's working for me. I feel like Nardil could do more though, so hopefully once I go up to 75 I'll feel the full therapeutic effects. Other than those 4, haven't tried any other meds. I don't plan on trying anything else.


----------



## WillComp

Does anyone know if it's common to pick up new side effects after 2 months at a stable dose of 60? The past week, all my muscles are extremely sore, especially in my arms and shoulders, neck, legs and lower back. Just walking to the car this morning was a struggle and walking up 1 flight of stairs was painful. 1 week ago, I felt fine. I played basketball, tennis, lifted weights, and hiked up a small mountain (strenuous steep 45 minute hike to the summit). 


That hike was one of the most physically demanding and mentally torturous things I've ever done and it surprised me that I had to stop every couple minutes. In the past I'd speed walk to the summit without stopping. But that was 11 days ago and I felt fine for a few days afterwards. Now I can't even brush my teeth for 2 minutes because my arm and neck get tired and sore. This is one of the worst side effects I've had so far. And is it from the Nardil? Who knows? :get


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Does anyone know if it's common to pick up new side effects after 2 months at a stable dose of 60? The past week, all my muscles are extremely sore, especially in my arms and shoulders, neck, legs and lower back. Just walking to the car this morning was a struggle and walking up 1 flight of stairs was painful. 1 week ago, I felt fine. I played basketball, tennis, lifted weights, and hiked up a small mountain (strenuous steep 45 minute hike to the summit).
> 
> That hike was one of the most physically demanding and mentally torturous things I've ever done and it surprised me that I had to stop every couple minutes. In the past I'd speed walk to the summit without stopping. But that was 11 days ago and I felt fine for a few days afterwards. Now I can't even brush my teeth for 2 minutes because my arm and neck get tired and sore. This is one of the worst side effects I've had so far. And is it from the Nardil? Who knows? :get


That's the Nardil, for sure. I've got it myself. Don't remember when I got it, but it didn't start right away. I am on 60 mg as well, been at it for 4 months now. Several people, including myself, call it a sensation of having lactic acid in the legs and arms, or even throughout the body. That, and the general fatigue, is what bothers me the most. It does vary from day to day, but it's almost always there. Sometimes I can go to a spin class and not even get my pulse up, because my legs are too weak. Other days I might manage to get abit short og breath and higher in pulse. I've stopped taking the stairs, I always take the elevator if I am going more than a couple of floors up.

I am trying to find out what to do about this. I went to see a psychomotoric (physical therapist), and she says my muscles are all sore. I have been going to her before I started Nardil too, and my muscles were never sore all over. She also told me that my muscles didn't feel tense, the pain I was in while she gave me a gentle massage didn't really correspond to what she felt touching me.

A theory is that Nardil somehow makes me more tense, without me realizing it. That all my muscles work a little bit all the time. That results in lactic acid after a good while.

I also struggle sleeping, so I tried 10 mg of Oxazepam one night. Woke up the next morning (didn't do wonders for my sleep, though), and the lactic acid was gone. Took 10 mg three nights in a row, and had the best three days I've had for a long, long time. Then I didn't take it for three nights, and slowly the lactic acid got back. I took Oxazepam again last night, but unfortunately I did wake up with the feeling og lactic acid this morning. So I don't know for sure about the connection, but I do feel slightly optimistic about taking some kind of muscle relexant and that it will make the lactic acid go. The psychomotoric seemed very intrigued by that, and she talked it over with a doctor, who said it was okay to take Oxazepam occasionally, if I knew I depended on having my body work with me the next day.


----------



## phebus

yeah i agree it's the nardil i remember having that, hence the higher dose you go the more the side effects


----------



## phebus

After 10 years I stopped nardil to see if I still needed it. Big mistake, things turned to **** and it was a very painful experience. This medication is the holy grail for me, it makes ssri's seem like sugar pills. Anways started back on the Nardil today after none for a couple of months. 4 hours after my first dose of only 15mg and I can feel it working allready. Damn it feels nice, headphones on - music sounds so good again. Motivation and ambition is increasing. The only thing that could make this better is a cigarette - oh yeah i quit them  Thank god for nardil, amen.


----------



## SFC01

phebus said:


> Anways started back on the Nardil today after none for a couple of months. 4 hours after my first dose of only 15mg and I can feel it working allready. .


So thats happened to me twice now when I switched to parnate for a few months and then back again to nardil - nardil kicked back in almost instantly, I was like a new man within a few hours.


----------



## phebus

uk user said:


> I'm tempted to take 15mg each day but for now I will try parnate as nardil gave me immediate side effects.


how is the parnate going? i've never taken that one so interested to how it compares to nardil. from what i've heard it's a stronger antidepressant effect and a weaker antianxiety effect.


----------



## porkpiehat

*better than parnate?*



mr t said:


> Also feel free to post questions on this thread. You might have the same questions as other people!


I have been on Parnate for about six months. The first two were awful: zero sleep; tired, detatched, and apathetic during the day. It has been made bearable by dosing later in the day and finding heavy-duty sleep meds that work.

I don't constantly think about suicide now and obsess over the evil intentions of other. I can write and read and cognitively function. The apathy and detachment are pretty constant, however, and I haven't been able to augment my way around it. My SA is diminished but I have zero interest in people, friends, and responsibilities. I failed my first class in 4 years and have destroyed my hopes for grad school but I don't care. This is doesn't feel like me or how life should be.

Sooo I'm wondering if anyone on Nardil has had this experience. I'm running low on options but given all the work getting on and ramping up the MAOI, this seems like a possibility provided it's not more of the same or worse with the sleep, daytime sedation, and detachment.


----------



## britisharrow

porkpiehat said:


> I don't constantly think about suicide now and obsess over the evil intentions of other. I can write and read and cognitively function. The apathy and detachment are pretty constant, however, and I haven't been able to augment my way around it. My SA is diminished but I have zero interest in people, friends, and responsibilities. I failed my first class in 4 years and have destroyed my hopes for grad school but I don't care. This is doesn't feel like me or how life should be.
> 
> Sooo I'm wondering if anyone on Nardil has had this experience. I'm running low on options but given all the work getting on and ramping up the MAOI, this seems like a possibility provided it's not more of the same or worse with the sleep, daytime sedation, and detachment.


I have found that Nardil for me primarily targetted anxiety and not necessarily depression. Therefore I'd say for some it could be a good idea to augment Nardil with an anti-depressant. Of course this has to be reached via a psychiatrist as certain anti-depressants might blow your brain out if mixed with Nardil.


----------



## omfs1800raw

i finally got an RX for it today and had a question. if you take the gavis brand, did it recently become lupin? i called a few places about the gavis kind and all they had was greenstone and lupin. when i did a search of lupin/gavis it said that lupin had bought gavis last year or something but the gavis website is still up, so i was just curious because i heard gavis/lupin (?) works the best.


----------



## poopypants

porkpiehat said:


> I have been on Parnate for about six months. The first two were awful: zero sleep; tired, detatched, and apathetic during the day. It has been made bearable by dosing later in the day and finding heavy-duty sleep meds that work.
> 
> I don't constantly think about suicide now and obsess over the evil intentions of other. I can write and read and cognitively function. The apathy and detachment are pretty constant, however, and I haven't been able to augment my way around it. My SA is diminished but I have zero interest in people, friends, and responsibilities. I failed my first class in 4 years and have destroyed my hopes for grad school but I don't care. This is doesn't feel like me or how life should be.
> 
> Sooo I'm wondering if anyone on Nardil has had this experience. I'm running low on options but given all the work getting on and ramping up the MAOI, this seems like a possibility provided it's not more of the same or worse with the sleep, daytime sedation, and detachment.


That sounds like me before I started taking Nardil =/ Now, for the first time in my life, I'm attending all of my classes and studying hard regardless of whether or not I feel like it or how tired I am. Nardil has definitely done something to my motivation. Also, I'm still quite introverted and not super interested in people, but with Nardil I love to chat and socialize with the few people I'm really close to.

Maybe give Nardil a shot? It still affects your sleep, but I find I feel so much better mentally I really don't care that much. I've also been doing CBT for insomnia and it's helped a lot (I don't want to use benzos). I find the fatigue is the worst when I'm at home sitting at my desk, but when I'm out and about I can wake up as long as I have coffee.


----------



## poopypants

Read "Say Goodnight to Insomnia"


----------



## SFC01

poopypants said:


> Read "Say Goodnight to Insomnia"


Read "Insomnia ? Then do some ****ing mindfulness" by SFC01

I`m on nardil and sleep like a snuggly little bairn


----------



## poopypants

unsure00 said:


> Hoping I can get some advice on whether Nardil will be a good medication for me. I've tried so many different things over the past 8 years and clomipramine gave me the best relief for awhile (was able to talk to people without sweating and blushing) but I had to stop because it made my vision so blurry I could not physically function (could not see properly to even walk).
> 
> The dietary restrictions with Nardil don't bother me. I don't drink alcohol. currently tapering off cymbalta after 6 months of use because I found no relief and the side effects are bad (also starting to cause vision disturbance).
> 
> Some factors that I would like to address before starting nardil:
> - I have always had very unstable mood, very irritable and get annoyed by trivial things/people easily. I always find most comfort on being on my own or with my dogs. Also quite sensitive and have obsessive thoughts about what people think/feel about me after I have done something wrong and will cry about it for days after. Will Nardil exacerbate this?
> - How long do people normally wait after finishing cymbalta before they can safely start using Nardil? The brain zaps I am getting from tapering off cymbalta are absolutely terrible and I've been in bed all day today crying about my situation
> - has anyone experienced blurry vision using Nardil? This seems to be a common side effect in the past few things I have tried. I am studying full time and this is not a side effect I can put up with when I can't see properly to be able to get through my classes.
> - not sure where everyone is based but I am in Australia and can see a lot of people have difficulty getting a prescription for this. Is it difficult in Australia?
> - I have read that nasal decongestants are contraindicated. I also suffer from chronic rhinitis and sometimes need to rely heavily on a decongestant because then I get full blown cold/flu-like symptoms that hang around for a couple of weeks. If nardil is as good as people report, I would choose relief for SA over my allergies. But what actually would happen if I used a corticosteroid nasal spray whilst taking nardil?


Based on your first point, I think Nardil may help you. I would ask to start at 15mg for 1-2 weeks, then 30mg for 1-2 weeks, then 45mg and stop there for awhile. I wish that's what I'd done.

Regarding blurry vision: well, when the Nardil finally kicked in for me I totally had dilated pupils which = weird feelings in your eyes. It wasn't unpleasant to me though. It was definitely tolerable, and it went away in a week or so.

Make sure you've been off your Cymbalta for two weeks, and you have to be careful about nasal sprays. Just ask your pharmacist about what you can take with Nardil. The food stuff is easy but I always ask a pharmacist about any OTC stuff I take.

If you really want a prescription, tell the doctor you've taken all the antidepressants and they don't work, i.e. you've taken at least two SSRIs, wellbutrin, effexor, and maybe a TCA. Research them so you know what to say when they ask you questions about then. I'm only saying this because I wish I had been prescribed Nardil years ago, and it was only until I had been prescribed ALL of those over the course of many years and had to specifically ask for Nardil, that a psychiatrist was like "oh yeah, Nardil is the god of antidepressants. We just don't prescribe it much. But now that you mention it, I think that's a good idea." Lol.


----------



## poopypants

SFC01 said:


> Read "Insomnia ? Then do some ****ing mindfulness" by SFC01
> 
> I`m on nardil and sleep like a snuggly little bairn


I think you're looking for sociallyretardedsupport.com? Nobody thinks you're funny, you just sound super lame.


----------



## SFC01

poopypants said:


> I think you're looking for sociallyretardedsupport.com? Nobody thinks you're funny, you just sound super lame.


I cant argue with that,

although I was actually trying be helpful as mindfulness has really helped me with insomnia, but anyway thanks for your kind words.


----------



## poopypants

SFC01 said:


> I cant argue with that,
> 
> although I was actually trying be helpful as mindfulness has really helped me with insomnia, but anyway thanks for your kind words.


Sorry, it didn't sound like you were being nice. Your post was a little hard to interpret.

Yes, I agree! Mindfulness has helped me a lot with insomnia


----------



## SFC01

poopypants said:


> Sorry, it didn't sound like you were being nice. Your post was a little hard to interpret.
> 
> Yes, I agree! Mindfulness has helped me a lot with insomnia


No worries poopy, I give it out enough so I can take !! was just trying to make you feel a litte bit bad :grin2:

Good to see your other Nardil questions thread, there are quite a few people on nardil now or just starting out on it so I`m sure your offer to answer questions will be appreciated !!

How long have you been on it for ? I`m nearly 4 years on it now and its been absolutely amazing for me. From 2 weeks after starting to now, it has worked consitently every day for me.


----------



## WillComp

@SFC01 , what dosage are in u on? And is there anything you do that ur convinced helps Nardil stay consistent?


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> @*SFC01* , what dosage are in u on? And is there anything you do that ur convinced helps Nardil stay consistent?


Hello mate, I`m on 75mg and have been from probably week 6 or so.

When I say consistent, I mean consistent at keeping depression and anxiety away. I literally cant feel depressed even if i try and as for anxiety, well yes I still get anxiety like very other human in the world, but its not intense or dwelled on and its short lived, and appropriate for the situation - I'm not scared in the slightest of getting anxious now. I still get days when I cant be bothered with doing much, still get bored from time to time like everyone else but in general, yeah, most days I feel energetic, excited, happy etc etc.

Really not sure what makes it consistent, I guess I got lucky and whatever was causing my depression and anxiety, was perfectly addressed by nardil. Mental health seems such a complex thing to address as no doubt you know - some meds like SSRIs work perfectly for some but for me I didn't even notice I was taking them - no help whatsoever.

The only thing that I can think of is that when nardil kicked in for me, I started exercising regularly and I started seriously practicing mindfulness - like 2 - 3 hours day when I can. Maybe these helped but to be honest, I`m pretty sure if I didnt meditate or exercise, nardil would still be consistent.

Wish I could say something definite for you that you could try. What I would say though is that if you dont think nardil is quite doing it for you, do try a TCA like nortriptyline or amitriptlyine (or something that will increase nordrenaline). Amitriptyline, that I take for pain for the last 6 months or so, along with nardil has somehow even managed to improve my mood.


----------



## WillComp

SFC01 said:


> Hello mate, I`m on 75mg and have been from probably week 6 or so.
> 
> When I say consistent, I mean consistent at keeping depression and anxiety away. I literally cant feel depressed even if i try and as for anxiety, well yes I still get anxiety like very other human in the world, but its not intense or dwelled on and its short lived, and appropriate for the situation - I'm not scared in the slightest of getting anxious now. I still get days when I cant be bothered with doing much, still get bored from time to time like everyone else but in general, yeah, most days I feel energetic, excited, happy etc etc.
> 
> Really not sure what makes it consistent, I guess I got lucky and whatever was causing my depression and anxiety, was perfectly addressed by nardil. Mental health seems such a complex thing to address as no doubt you know - some meds like SSRIs work perfectly for some but for me I didn't even notice I was taking them - no help whatsoever.
> 
> The only thing that I can think of is that when nardil kicked in for me, I started exercising regularly and I started seriously practicing mindfulness - like 2 - 3 hours day when I can. Maybe these helped but to be honest, I`m pretty sure if I didnt meditate or exercise, nardil would still be consistent.
> 
> Wish I could say something definite for you that you could try. What I would say though is that if you dont think nardil is quite doing it for you, do try a TCA like nortriptyline or amitriptlyine (or something that will increase nordrenaline). Amitriptyline, that I take for pain for the last 6 months or so, along with nardil has somehow even managed to improve my mood.


Hey man, thanks for the reply. That's very encouraging. After a lot of thought, I decided to stick with 75 for the time being. Ive been on 75mg for 3 months and wasn't sure what to do since I've had at least 10 days where I felt an extreme swing into full depression and anticipatory anxiety. Just last week I panicked moments before my turn to speak in a meeting.

With that said, thinking back to how every day was unbearable and how I could barely function to now where almost every day is wonderful and free of anxiety/depression is amazing. I'm not sure why I get those horrible pre-Nardil-like days. I could be wrong but I think they're becoming more and more infrequent as time passes so I'm not gonna dwell on it.

One final thing I noticed: If I make myself laugh (by listening to a funny talk show host, thinking of something hilarious, etc.) it boosts the beneficial effects of Nardil and makes me feel great all day. Also, if I think positive and feel grateful, it tends to do the same.

On the other hand, if I dwell on the past or future and let unpleasant events put me in a bad mood, the beneficial effects are wiped away and a domino effect takes place till I feel terrible. So I guess I have more incentive now to not dwell on the negative and not let unfortunate situations pull me down. In other words, I'm learning to allow myself not to give a fukc. Just go with the flow and make wise decisions. Like right now I'm heading to the gym. :boogie
Will post more later when I have more time.


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> One final thing I noticed: If I make myself laugh (by listening to a funny talk show host, thinking of something hilarious, etc.) it boosts the beneficial effects of Nardil and makes me feel great all day. Also, if I think positive and feel grateful, it tends to do the same.


Sounds encouraging for you too mate and I`m sure those bad days will go eventually.

Thats interesting about making your self laugh as I always throw in a forced smile for a few minutes when I meditate (yeah I probably look stupid) once I`m in tune with the breath and body, and you call feel the immediate uplift and how the effect kind of flows through your body. Everyone should try smiling or laughing more.


----------



## UKguy

When you say cannot get depressed on Nardil what exactly do you mean? What was your depression like prior to Nardil?

I would definite my depression as low energy, lack of motivation, lack of pleasure and enjoyment in activities - a real feeling of physically being de-energized and exhausted. Yeah I get the stereotypical sadness and ruminations on the meaning of life which leads to suicidal thoughts, but that is not the only or even main issue.

The SSRIs I tried seem to have the effect of _increasing_ what I believe are the most problematic symptoms of apathy, lack of energy, motivation and enjoyment.

I'm hoping Parnate or Nardil will be helpful with those issues.


----------



## SFC01

UKguy said:


> When you say cannot get depressed on Nardil what exactly do you mean? What was your depression like prior to Nardil?


Hi mate, assume that questions is to me.

So my main problem for 10 years or so was GAD - hypochondria, work, money, my kids health, my relationship, anything and everything which lead to me feeling down from time to time as well. Then I split up with the ex, moved away from kids, seriously injured my elbow, etc, etc, and thats when my anxiety went as I simply didnt care about anything, but was replaced with depression. I kept thinking my kids growing up one day with a step dad and then moving away, kept thinking about my ex and this was non stop. I had no interest in anything, didnt find anything funny, no energy, no care for my health and wellbeing, crying, felt useless and a let down - and then I started waking up every morning with the most intense dark mood, would start crying as soon as I woke up and I was at the point where I never wanted to wake up (but not suicidal, just if i died in my sleep, then great).

Started nardil and 2/3 weeks later, I felt great, just like I did when I was younger before any mood issues.

It wasn't a particularly long depression, couple years or so, but something wasn't rate for a lot longer than that with the GAD.


----------



## UKguy

@SFC01 Hi mate, yes I was meaning you with that question sorry.

yeah it is good to know that you were helped with some of the same symptoms I have. You didn't go on the SSRI merry go round first?

Anyway later on today is judgement day for me, so to speak. Seriously feeling physically sick with anxiety right now.


----------



## SFC01

UKguy said:


> @*SFC01* Hi mate, yes I was meaning you with that question sorry.
> 
> yeah it is good to know that you were helped with some of the same symptoms I have. You didn't go on the SSRI merry go round first?
> 
> Anyway later on today is judgement day for me, so to speak. Seriously feeling physically sick with anxiety right now.


Ah, good luck today, thinking of ya pal so let us know how it goes !! It will be fine.

Yes, I went on the SSRI merry go round when I was suffering from anxiety but before my main episode of depression. None of them worked !! As soon as I separated from the ex missus, I switched from sertraline to imipramine/lyrica and also tried trimipramine with lyrica before I went on nardil. Both of these combos were good, especially the period after I split but untimately they just weren't strong enough in the end.


----------



## SFC01

UKguy said:


> Anyway later on today is judgement day for me


Just in case they do start ****ing you around, put in another big effort to get what you want - dont leave without. All the best.


----------



## TupacForever

Please help guys. I was at 45mg for a month, then switched to 60mg. So at about 4-6 weeks or more at 60mg it kicked in and i was at the feeling pretty decent stage for about 2.5 weeks straight. It was the greatest thing to feel a huge reduction in depression and social anxiety, i cried over and over because i finally felt okay for the first time in my life.

The past 1.5 weeks though since its slowly stopped working and now i'm extremely suicidal, anxious, socially anxious, and depressed again. My psychiatrist has been practicing for over 15 years and I'm the first patient he's ever given Nardil to, and so he literally knows less than I do and I feel that going back to him this week he might give me ****ty advice which could leave me waiting for something that won't work.

What happens after the initial "mania" or "feeling nice" phase? Can someone give me a time frame of everything.

I tried doing research all over forums the past two days and have only found extremely vague and non-conclusive answers. Some in old threads say up the dose, others say go down to 15mg a day to get it working. I'm so confused and have absolutely nowhere to turn. I finally felt hope and now I feel so hopeless thinking and believing that Nardil is likely over for me.


----------



## SFC01

TupacForever said:


> Please help guys. I was at 45mg for a month, then switched to 60mg. So at about 4-6 weeks or more at 60mg it kicked in and i was at the feeling pretty decent stage for about 2.5 weeks straight. It was the greatest thing to feel a huge reduction in depression and social anxiety, i cried over and over because i finally felt okay for the first time in my life.
> 
> The past 1.5 weeks though since its slowly stopped working and now i'm extremely suicidal, anxious, socially anxious, and depressed again. My psychiatrist has been practicing for over 15 years and I'm the first patient he's ever given Nardil to, and so he literally knows less than I do and I feel that going back to him this week he might give me ****ty advice which could leave me waiting for something that won't work.
> 
> What happens after the initial "mania" or "feeling nice" phase? Can someone give me a time frame of everything.
> 
> I tried doing research all over forums the past two days and have only found extremely vague and non-conclusive answers. Some in old threads say up the dose, others say go down to 15mg a day to get it working. I'm so confused and have absolutely nowhere to turn. I finally felt hope and now I feel so hopeless thinking and believing that Nardil is likely over for me.


Well I didnt really get mania, just complete relief from depression and anxiety which feels fantastic at first but that becomes the norm eventually. I was at 60mg and was getting result but they were a little bit inconsistent but nothing like your situation. I upped my dose to 75mg and then it has been consistently good since then.

That may not work for you so I think you need to experiment a bit, maybe go up to 75mg for a week or two and see how that goes, if no better then maybe go taper down to 45mg and stick to that for a while.

Are you taking anything else ? either meds or supplements ?


----------



## TupacForever

SFC01 said:


> Well I didnt really get mania, just complete relief from depression and anxiety which feels fantastic at first but that becomes the norm eventually. I was at 60mg and was getting result but they were a little bit inconsistent but nothing like your situation. I upped my dose to 75mg and then it has been consistently good since then.
> 
> That may not work for you so I think you need to experiment a bit, maybe go up to 75mg for a week or two and see how that goes, if no better then maybe go taper down to 45mg and stick to that for a while.
> 
> Are you taking anything else ? either meds or supplements ?


How long were you on 60mg before you felt the effect kick in? and once it kicked in did it slowly fade over a couple weeks before you switched to 75mg?

Also how long after switching to 75mg did it begin to work well again?

I wouldn't even say really I felt mania actually really, I just felt a pretty decent reduction in depression and a really large reduction in social anxiety and generalized anxiety. It just faded after a couple weeks and now I'm still on the same dose at 60mg but back to being very anxious and depressed.


----------



## TupacForever

SFC01 said:


> Well I didnt really get mania, just complete relief from depression and anxiety which feels fantastic at first but that becomes the norm eventually. I was at 60mg and was getting result but they were a little bit inconsistent but nothing like your situation. I upped my dose to 75mg and then it has been consistently good since then.
> 
> That may not work for you so I think you need to experiment a bit, maybe go up to 75mg for a week or two and see how that goes, if no better then maybe go taper down to 45mg and stick to that for a while.
> 
> Are you taking anything else ? either meds or supplements ?


How long were you on 60mg before you felt the effect kick in? and once it kicked in did it slowly fade over a couple weeks before you switched to 75mg?

Also how long after switching to 75mg did it begin to work well again?

I wouldn't even say really I felt mania actually really, I just felt a pretty decent reduction in depression and a really large reduction in social anxiety and generalized anxiety. It just faded after a couple weeks and now I'm still on the same dose at 60mg but back to being very anxious and depressed.


----------



## poopypants

Does anyone else get "whooshing" in their ears when your nardil dose kicks in (like ~45 mins later)? It's like a bit of pressure and air blowing (it reminds me of the ocean for some reason lol) but it doesn't hurt...in fact I kind of enjoy it now :nerd:. It used to freak me out a lot because I thought there was something really wrong.


----------



## Tandorini

poopypants said:


> Does anyone else get "whooshing" in their ears when your nardil dose kicks in (like ~45 mins later)? It's like a bit of pressure and air blowing (it reminds me of the ocean for some reason lol) but it doesn't hurt...in fact I kind of enjoy it now :nerd:. It used to freak me out a lot because I thought there was something really wrong.


Haha, sounds funny 

Nah, never got that. But my BP does rise from the normal 115/75 to approx 160/110 about 30 minutes after taking the morning dose. I can feel my heart beating, like I'm really stressed out. My pulse goes down to below 50 bpm.

The whooshing in you ears may be related to your BP? Do you have a monitor? Try taking your BP when you feel this.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

I have started getting a bit of whoosing at five days of Nardil at 60mg. My BP is fine when I checked it today at lunch. I take 30mg in the AM and 30mg in the PM. I'm also on 30mg x 3 propranolol, .3 x 3 clonidine, 300mg x 2 trileptal, and 1800mg x 1 neurontin. 


Anxiety has almost completely vanished - it is amazing although I'm a bit out of it, shaky and tired. Complete sexual dysfunction at the point as well.


----------



## nehcrow

Any Australians using Nardil? Looking to get started as SSRI's, moclobemide, mood stabilizers have all failed. Cannot rely long-term on benzos as well (which unfortunately work very well)


----------



## Leiaofmaui

I just completed my 2 week of Nardil on 60 mg. I am seeing some signs of improvement but there is still no consistency. Could anyone provide me with encouragement? I was on Paxil for over 20 years and the last several years were a constant fight with the medication: it will work off and on. Any insight into Nardil is very much appreciated! I am wondering if I go up to 75 mg now would it make a difference or shall I stick to 60 mg for a while longer. Thank you and aloha from Maii!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tandorini

Leiaofmaui said:


> I just completed my 2 week of Nardil on 60 mg. I am seeing some signs of improvement but there is still no consistency. Could anyone provide me with encouragement? I was on Paxil for over 20 years and the last several years were a constant fight with the medication: it will work off and on. Any insight into Nardil is very much appreciated! I am wondering if I go up to 75 mg now would it make a difference or shall I stick to 60 mg for a while longer. Thank you and aloha from Maii!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I noticed a slight improvement after the first few weeks, but the improvement continued for a long, long time. The first I realised was a slight increase in interest (I was depressed). I still felt depressed, but I started choosing other foods (instead of just reaching out for whatever was right in front of me), I chose which friends to hang out with (rather than just calling anyone, thinking I should try maintaining my friendships). I am a lot better now (10 months) than even at 3 months, I think. First the medicine will work chemically for you, and then you go through a phase where you're not sure what to think, because your illness is still so recent, you're used to being ill. Then, as Nardil keeps working, the memories will get further away, and you will start trusting that it is a lasting effect, not just a good day or a good week. Then you'll start looking forward, making plans, being able to focus on other things in your life other than your illness, which will help you improve even more. At least, this is what it's been like for me.

You could try 75 mg if you want (and your doc agrees), but you may get more side effects. I was never able to stick to a dose higher than 60 mg because of the side effects becoming unbearable.


----------



## Iza707

The side effects did get worse for me the higher I went up. It is harder to go down in dose than it is to go up. So, maybe wait another two weeks and see. You could even halve a 15mg tablet and just take 7.5mg. I usually work my way up slowly so there's room to improve without horrible side effects. After 45mg, I can tell a difference in my mood even if I go up by a quarter of a pill. They aren't scored to be cut but you can get close enough.


----------



## rae8

*Losing coordination*



robynhood said:


> Nardil...Weird side effect??? Unsteady when walking.
> New member here, longtime Nardil user.
> Was on it as a teenager from 1982-88. Then again from 1994-2012 until it pooped out on me. Just restarted it 19 days ago. 15mg first week, 30mg second week, 45mg four days ago. At the time of the 45mg increase I began to notice I feel unsteady when I walk. I wouldn't describe it as feeling dizzy, but something just doesn't seem right. I don't remember this symptom from the two other times I was on it, and I've taken as much as 75mg in the past. Of course the sensation is just making my anxiety worse. I'd appreciate any thoughts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think anyone ever responded to this post about feeling unsteady. Another user also noted a loss of coordination. I recently went from 45 to 60 of Nardil (I'm 3 weeks in), and I too have noticed this effect. It's not that I'm dizzy, it's like I'm a bit tippy, off balance, and bump into things. It's a bit unnerving.

Does anyone have any knowledge of this side effect? I'm wondering if I should go back down to 45 for now. With the increase to 60, I've also gotten insomnia, some itching in my feet and hands, hypomania, and some pain in the calf of my leg. All these side effects are somewhat concerning, and I don't know if I should stay at 60 for a few weeks and push through or if I should cut back?


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

rae8 said:


> I don't think anyone ever responded to this post about feeling unsteady. Another user also noted a loss of coordination. I recently went from 45 to 60 of Nardil (I'm 3 weeks in), and I too have noticed this effect. It's not that I'm dizzy, it's like I'm a bit tippy, off balance, and bump into things. It's a bit unnerving.
> 
> Does anyone have any knowledge of this side effect? I'm wondering if I should go back down to 45 for now. With the increase to 60, I've also gotten insomnia, some itching in my feet and hands, hypomania, and some pain in the calf of my leg. All these side effects are somewhat concerning, and I don't know if I should stay at 60 for a few weeks and push through or if I should cut back?


I would say stick with it as for me the side effects pass in a few weeks at 60mg. Even at 90mg (check out my treatment log) they are resolving. For me I didn't get enough anxiety relief at 60mg. I went from 60 to 90 without trying 75mg as I figured I would go for maximum efficacy and deal with the side effects. I'm 210lbs and a weightlifter so according to the 1mg / 2.2lbs rule I need 90mg long term.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

Oh, and the fast heartbeat is normal and goes away also.


----------



## phebus

Everyone must be different I guess. For myself the side effects don't go away much, so I just take a low dose where I get good effect without the worst of the side effects. 10 year Nardil veteran here - ask me any questions.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

phebus said:


> Everyone must be different I guess. For myself the side effects don't go away much, so I just take a low dose where I get good effect without the worst of the side effects. 10 year Nardil veteran here - ask me any questions.


What does works for you? I was at 90mg but haven't taken Nardil for the last two days hoping to get resolution of side effects before I go back on. Noticed social anxiety coming on today.


----------



## jaiho

Starting Nardil tomorrow, really hope i dont get hypotension too badly. I had physical weakness on Parnate and ceased my exercise programs due to it.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

WillComp said:


> I've been on Nardil since May of last year, and what's surprised me the most is that the side effects don't go away much. I was on 75 for more than 4 months, from July to November, and the orthostatic hypotension never let up. I thought for sure it would've subsided by then.
> 
> In November I had a scary episode, I was in a store and was so dizzy I thought for sure I was gonna collapse. The dizziness and white-out lasted more than 30 minutes.. and at that moment I didn't even have to think twice. I had collapsed too many times in the past, once I bloodied my face and I still have the scars, so I decided to reduce to 60, then 45.
> 
> When I took the low dose of 45 for 10 days in November, my SA came back with a vengeance. It was a nightmare. I must be very sensitive to reducing medicine. Although I felt extremely sick with social anxiety during that time, I was relieved that the OH went away. So after 10 days of misery I gradually increased to 75 again. That's where I'm at right now. I believe reducing the dose back in Nov completely got rid of my OH, the worst side effect.
> 
> I still have the 2nd and 3rd worst side effect of them all. Unfortunately they never went away: Nodding off throughout the day (similar to narcolepsy).. and Anorgasmia. To combat the narco symptoms I take caffeine pills which are quite effective, and to combat the mind games of anorgasmia I've decided to abstain from trying till summer vacation.
> 
> Do you have any idea why these 2 didn't go away? I'm confused - at least I never feel dizzy anymore. And the best part is I feel wonderful at 75 again. Almost 100% remission from SA.


I don't think anyone can explain exactly why your body is reacting on Nardil. The side effects can take up to a year to resolve per threads on here and Dr. Bob forum. Maybe 60 is a good dose for you in between 45mg which doesn't help and 75mg which gives you lasting side effects.

How much do you weigh? The 1mg / 1kg advice seems like good guidance to try following. For me it is 90mg as I'm a big guy at 215lbs 6 feet weightlifter. I'm right at three months and still have ringing in ears (and weird changes in equilibrium / blood pressure - hard to explain), bloated belly, and the dreaded anorgasma which is really annoying as I have drive and such.

Feel like I'm going to go crazy with sex dreams and such and unable to relieve it. Maybe females can't understand but guys need the occasional release to keep us level. My caber trail at .5mg every three days has so far been unable to reverse this although it seems to help erections and desire. Also gives me a "feel good" dopamine release and seems to kill my hunger which makes controlling my weight easy. Not manic / hypomanic at all.

Insomnia has gotten a lot better and I sleep great on Clonidine or Seroquel.

Remeron is on its way and I will try that for sleep and sex.


----------



## sebrhodes

Hi guys, I am resurrecting this thread for the sake of a horrific side effect that no one else seems to have according to what I’ve seen on here and Dr. Bob.

I’ve been on 60mg for 4 weeks and sometimes when I feel sleepy and I start thinking or feeling something depressing, I get a hypnic jerk while fully awake and I feel extremely lightheaded for a second or less.

HOWEVER, as of last week those jerks have become brain zaps or nerve pain because my head and feet get zapped for an instant. One time I had a zap so bad that it lasted a couple of seconds and felt like a very painful electric current bouncing through the front of my head. It nearly caused me to have a panic attack.

Has anyone else had this strange side effect? If so, what is it and why is it?


----------



## porkpiehat

AtlantaPhobic said:


> My caber trail at .5mg every three days has so far been unable to reverse this although it seems to help erections and desire. Also gives me a "feel good" dopamine release and seems to kill my hunger which makes controlling my weight easy. Not manic / hypomanic at all.
> 
> Insomnia has gotten a lot better and I sleep great on Clonidine or Seroquel.
> 
> Remeron is on its way and I will try that for sleep and sex.


He I'm wondering what "caber trail" is....Im looking for some kind of release from the sexual disinterest.

I also found taking seroquel for sleep gives me an intense bout of cognitive difficulty the next day. I don't think anticholinergic meds mix well with MAOIs in us over-40 geriatric types lol.

what were you hoping for with regards to the remeron?


----------



## Greekgirl

sebrhodes said:


> Hi guys, I am resurrecting this thread for the sake of a horrific side effect that no one else seems to have according to what I've seen on here and Dr. Bob.
> 
> I've been on 60mg for 4 weeks and sometimes when I feel sleepy and I start thinking or feeling something depressing, I get a hypnic jerk while fully awake and I feel extremely lightheaded for a second or less.
> 
> HOWEVER, as of last week those jerks have become brain zaps or nerve pain because my head and feet get zapped for an instant. One time I had a zap so bad that it lasted a couple of seconds and felt like a very painful electric current bouncing through the front of my head. It nearly caused me to have a panic attack.
> 
> Has anyone else had this strange side effect? If so, what is it and why is it?


Hi sebrhodes,

I know the feeling of the brain zap or i think i do. Is it a short painfull feeling going through your head? For me it's only a second and i think i've had it 2-3 times since taking Nardil for 6 days.. it is a little weird/scary but it doesn't bother me that much. It is something i recognize though from taking an ssri..

Are you still on Nardil or did you stop due to the side effects?


----------



## sebrhodes

Greekgirl said:


> Hi sebrhodes,
> 
> I know the feeling of the brain zap or i think i do. Is it a short painfull feeling going through your head? For me it's only a second and I think i've had it 2-3 times since taking Nardil for 6 days.. it is a little weird/scary but it doesn't bother me that much. It is something i recognize though from taking an ssri..
> 
> Are you still on Nardil or did you stop due to the side effects?


Hi Greekgirl, I am still on Nardil and I haven't experienced any zaps again. I just get little instant shots of extreme lightheadedness. These shots become zaps when they are strong enough, but again I haven't experienced zaps anymore. It's weird that you're having the zaps right away, did you increase the dosage really fast?

I bumped the dosage up to 75mg 2 days ago to get more anxiety relief, but I am starting to regret not allowing myself to reach 7 weeks on 60mg, I was only less than a week to get there and my side effects were diminishing. However, on the first day of 75mg I felt like a totally different person, but then again I had talked to lots of people at work. Today (Saturday) I didn't work and I noticed that I had substantially more social anxiety and even depression. Though the depression had to have come from the Trazadone I took the night before in order to stay asleep (because I still have insomnia from Nardil). I usually take Seroquel not Trazodone in order to sleep.


----------



## jakethed0g

*Remeron interaction*

Hello I've been on 45mg of remeron for years and am planning on starting nardil soon. I asked dr. Gilman if there would be any interaction and he said no. But I'm wondering if anyone here has any anecdotal reports to back it up. Have any of you taken both together? ThNks.


----------



## zeusko87

Where i can get Nardil these days?? Please PM me


----------



## Nardiluseriam

Hi there, intrigued by your post and hoping you can help ...
I had been on Nardil 15mg x3 daily for decades. I have had to come off them as suddenly
there were unavailable in the UK. I am now on another MAOI Moclobemide which at first was helpful
but seems to now causing major depressive episodes.
Basically I need to get back on Nardil but getting hold of a supply is very difficult ! 

My initial research tells me that 2 companies can provide an 'unlicensed' Nardil version the companies being Clinigen and Durbin. I will contact them soon to see if they have the supply then try the route of going through my UK doctor to get an unlicensed supply, which sounds complex.
Any hints or tips please ? It seems so desperately sad that on Nardil I am virtually depression free , off it am a very sad state of affairs. Best regards, P


----------



## HurtinAlbertan

I am in Canada, and there is literally none in the country, and even before the COVID-19 hit, the date for Nardil to be in stock would have been May. Now that the World is burning, I would not be surprised if Nardil is not available until the fall or later.

I am about to start Parnate.


----------



## D'avjo

Nardiluseriam said:


> Hi there, intrigued by your post and hoping you can help ...
> I had been on Nardil 15mg x3 daily for decades. I have had to come off them as suddenly
> there were unavailable in the UK. I am now on another MAOI Moclobemide which at first was helpful
> but seems to now causing major depressive episodes.
> Basically I need to get back on Nardil but getting hold of a supply is very difficult !
> 
> My initial research tells me that 2 companies can provide an 'unlicensed' Nardil version the companies being Clinigen and Durbin. I will contact them soon to see if they have the supply then try the route of going through my UK doctor to get an unlicensed supply, which sounds complex.
> Any hints or tips please ? It seems so desperately sad that on Nardil I am virtually depression free , off it am a very sad state of affairs. Best regards, P


See your pharmacist and tell them to look on the UK SPS website and get the list of unlicensed suppliers who still have nardil. Then get a prescription from your GP, but make sure they add special order in the text, give it to pharmacist and they should get you some within a few weeks.


----------



## nb89

HurtinAlbertan said:


> I am in Canada, and there is literally none in the country, and even before the COVID-19 hit, the date for Nardil to be in stock would have been May. Now that the World is burning, I would not be surprised if Nardil is not available until the fall or later.
> 
> I am about to start Parnate.


What pill size were your Nardil? The dose for Nardil is 45-90mg, but the pills always come in 15mg. That is probably a big reason why Nardil is so expensive.

How much did Parnate cost for you? I am also in Canada and was wanting to try Nardil.


----------



## Nardiluseriam

*many thanks / will keep this post updated*



D'avjo said:


> See your pharmacist and tell them to look on the UK SPS website and get the list of unlicensed suppliers who still have nardil. Then get a prescription from your GP, but make sure they add special order in the text, give it to pharmacist and they should get you some within a few weeks.


Many thanks ! I will follow this procedure and keep the post updated in case any other folk have this predicament. Any idea why Kyowa Kirin cannot supply a licensed version ? 

 Strikes me the supplier is at fault here and wondering why an alternate supplier cannot be used by the NHS! p { margin-bottom: 0cm; direction: ltr; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); }p.western { font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 10pt; }p.cjk { font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 10pt; }p.ctl { font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt; }a:visited { color: rgb(128, 0, 128); }a.western:visited { }a.cjk:visited { }a.ctl:visited { }a:link { color: rgb(0, 0, 255); }


----------



## D'avjo

Nardiluseriam said:


> Any idea why Kyowa Kirin cannot supply a licensed version ?


I`ve not seen anything on this, and I asked them via a ****ty email but they didn't mention it in their reply. God knows why they cant get it tho as it seems loads of other companies can.


----------



## Golf72

Hi folks. i posted here several years ago.

I am a longtime nardil user and have been on nardil and clonazepam since 1986.. Currently 30mg per day nardil and 1.5mg per day of clonezapam. Treatment is for generalized anxiety and slight depression. You folks all know the deal...hard to tell where one starts and the other ends, but mostly anxiety imo..


The last time I met with a psychiatrist he encouraged me to go off nardil at some point as things could get complicated with any medical procedures I might need as i age. I am fine health now, and was going to go off nardil and do the 14 day clearing period and switch to another med. But, I wanted to do that when I felt Nardil was not working so well. This, as opposed to just picking a date with the dr and switching.

That psychiatrist has moved to another location, but when I saw him he thought that either SSRI Zoloft or Paxil might be good candidates. My preference would be to try wellbutrin, as my brother was also on nardil for many years and he switched to wellbutrin and is good with it. 

Anyway, the whole confusion of whether there is a current or future supply issue with nardil in Canada (I know the Australia situation) is probably going to force my hand on a switch-over. I will be meeting the new Psychiatrist next week. It will the forth time I have seen a psychiatrist since starting nardil in 1986. I know that sounds odd, but I had a good understanding of my symptoms and my family doctors were fine with just re-prescribing each year. they knew I was knowledgeable about all the interactions and was stable.

Anyway, I am going to suggest to the new guy that I clear for 14 days and try wellbutrin. I am not going to slowly wean off. I have been down that road about 6 times and two or three month plan of tapering was not fun. I think I can take two weeks of cold turkey over 3 ****ty months.. My brother went 14 days cold turkey...

Part of me is concerned obviously, because nardil is pretty effective for me. But, part of me is also hopeful that something new might be better, and for sure better as far as long-term interactions, availability, etc. 

My biggest concern is that I go off, get on wellbutrin (or an SSRI), try forever to find a maintenance level, and if that does not work they try something else, and I basically never get back to where I am. That said, the nardil supply issue is concerning.

Perhaps what I will end up doing is to get a plan with the new psychiatrist (that is, what med I am going to switch to), and then when I can't get more nardil then I will have to go off, won't I.....lol

I am retired so not so much worried about the timing with respect to work or other responsibilities.

If you read this far, congrats.. sorry for the long post and typos.. just sharing where I am and what options seem to be ahead...

being on nardil since 1986...... do I hold some record here....lol


----------



## ChopSuey

Golf72 said:


> Hi folks. i posted here several years ago.
> 
> I am a longtime nardil user and have been on nardil and clonazepam since 1986.. Currently 30mg per day nardil and 1.5mg per day of clonezapam. Treatment is for generalized anxiety and slight depression. You folks all know the deal...hard to tell where one starts and the other ends, but mostly anxiety imo..
> 
> 
> The last time I met with a psychiatrist he encouraged me to go off nardil at some point as things could get complicated with any medical procedures I might need as i age. I am fine health now, and was going to go off nardil and do the 14 day clearing period and switch to another med. But, I wanted to do that when I felt Nardil was not working so well. This, as opposed to just picking a date with the dr and switching.
> 
> That psychiatrist has moved to another location, but when I saw him he thought that either SSRI Zoloft or Paxil might be good candidates. My preference would be to try wellbutrin, as my brother was also on nardil for many years and he switched to wellbutrin and is good with it.
> 
> Anyway, the whole confusion of whether there is a current or future supply issue with nardil in Canada (I know the Australia situation) is probably going to force my hand on a switch-over. I will be meeting the new Psychiatrist next week. It will the forth time I have seen a psychiatrist since starting nardil in 1986. I know that sounds odd, but I had a good understanding of my symptoms and my family doctors were fine with just re-prescribing each year. they knew I was knowledgeable about all the interactions and was stable.
> 
> Anyway, I am going to suggest to the new guy that I clear for 14 days and try wellbutrin. I am not going to slowly wean off. I have been down that road about 6 times and two or three month plan of tapering was not fun. I think I can take two weeks of cold turkey over 3 ****ty months.. My brother went 14 days cold turkey...
> 
> Part of me is concerned obviously, because nardil is pretty effective for me. But, part of me is also hopeful that something new might be better, and for sure better as far as long-term interactions, availability, etc.
> 
> My biggest concern is that I go off, get on wellbutrin (or an SSRI), try forever to find a maintenance level, and if that does not work they try something else, and I basically never get back to where I am. That said, the nardil supply issue is concerning.
> 
> Perhaps what I will end up doing is to get a plan with the new psychiatrist (that is, what med I am going to switch to), and then when I can't get more nardil then I will have to go off, won't I.....lol
> 
> I am retired so not so much worried about the timing with respect to work or other responsibilities.
> 
> If you read this far, congrats.. sorry for the long post and typos.. just sharing where I am and what options seem to be ahead...
> 
> being on nardil since 1986...... do I hold some record here....lol


Wow. 1986. I do think you'll get the gold medal. 

What dosage have you been on throughout the years, and what dose are you on currently? You say Nardil is effective, but you want more? I'm sorry to say as far as antidepressants go there is not something better. Nardil is according to studies conducted the most effective antidepressant available for SAD. It is a rare breed due to its action on increasing serotonin, noradrenaline, dopamine and GABA. If you switch to a SSRI you'll only get increase of serotonin and some impact on noradrenaline. That would be similar to driving a Ferrari and switching to a Fiat.......


----------



## joost78

Have been reading this whole thread, and this got me to try Nardil.

Just want to thank u all for your experiences and share mine.

I am very happy i tried Nardil. The short story is, since two weeks I got the feeling somebody pressed the off button of my SAD.

Build up from 15 to 30 to 45 in two weeks. Than a week of 45 and then 60mg. After one week of 60mg I started to feel different. Words flow easier and no more distracting thoughts when talking to people. After one more week I feel like I don't have SAD anymore. I tried this out on crowded parties and other formerly challinging situations. Non at all. This is just great, and I am making all sorts of plans now with my life.

The diet is a joke to me. I tried a lot which Ur not suppose to eat and check BP after. Nothing happend. Thyramine levels in food obviously have dramatically lessened. 

The side effects are also almost non existing. The only thing that brothers me is a minor decrease in sleep quality, but with some mirtazepine not a problem at all. Also the Nardil has obliterated my IBS. I guess that was related to the SAD .


----------

