# If you are good looking...



## OKdOut

If you are good looking, why do you care about low self esteem?

We all agree that one of the major means of gaining human relationships, and general happiness is to have a good self esteem.

But if you are good looking, you already have good odds of acquiring a member of the opposite sex, and even a good chance of being hired for whatever job you want,so why not just skip the self esteem part.

I mean if self esteem is a means to an end, and you're already able to get to the end (interested member of the opposite sex), shouldn't you just skip to the second stage, solidifying a new relationship instead of worrying about whether or not you are worthy of the relationship.

I don't think that things like self esteem can be artificially built. But I think we can learn to live with whatever advantage we may have, as a means of compensating.
So if you're good looking, I would suggest to just skip self esteem and take advantage of all the perks of being good looking.


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## nemesis1

Its not quite as easy as that. I am kinda good looking (or so I'm often told by people). Girls approach me, I start acting all shy and I dont know how to be, act or what to say around them. They usually ditch me pretty much asap or at best, have a few dates before they ditch me. This really hurts my self esteem, making my SA worse.


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## strawberryjulius

Uhmm, it's doesn't really work like that..


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## OKdOut

joinmartin said:


> You change. You evolve.


Self confidence isn't a magical principle which a select few are born with, and it's not a badge of valor gained from putting your self through needless struggle or anguish.

Bank robbers, con men, Wall Street fraudsters, etc, have some of the highest self confidence in the world. Not because their actions are benevolent, but because they know they can accomplish what they want to.
And that's all self confidence means.
It means that you are confident that you can get X if you want X, and you can go from point A to point B, if you want to.

I don't think most people here lack self confidence at all. They lack the ability to realize that their confidence should not be based on things that they are inherently bad at, but rather than self confidence by definition is always a _de facto_ knowledge of the things you have always been good at.


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## OKdOut

nemesis1 said:


> Its not quite as easy as that. I am kinda good looking (or so I'm often told by people). Girls approach me, I satart acting all shy and I dont know how to be, act or what to say around them. They usually ditch me pretty much asap or at best, have a few dates before they ditch me. This really hurts my self esteem, making my SA worse.


If you didn't have confidence, you would have taken anything that showed any interest at all. Most people here have confidence to be selective. It is they who are waiting to gain "self confidence" and that in itself is a luxury that only highly confident people have. Low confidence people take whatever they can get without being picky or asking for anything better.



nemesis1 said:


> This really hurts my self esteem, making my SA worse


Nothing can hurt your self esteem.Your self esteem shouldn't change based on the action of someone. Self esteem involves "self" and it's "esteem". Other people should not factor into it.

That action may very well have hurt your self worth. That's the respect you have for your ability to fulfill your ideals. If you are a religious person, your self worth should be based on living a very spiritual life.

But that still should not affect your self esteem. Your self esteem is yours and yours alone. The actions of others should not change it.


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## Wehttam

Good looks have nothing to do with it, low self esteem is feeling inferior as a person and fear being judged personality wise, knowledge wise, language wise, what good is it to be good looking and have girls approach you to then feel stunned mentally as to what to say? good looks actually makes SA worse because many try to flirt with you and you're expected to have a bit of self confidence since they assume you were popular in school or whatever...or at least having SA makes you believe they expect you to be that way putting more pressure on you.


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## Ecotraveller

I'm totally with nemesis1 and Wehttam. I'm an attractive, knowledgeable 45 year-old female who hasn't had a date in fifteen years. Men will approach me and I become so flustered that any attempts at conversations fail within minutes. On the rare occasions that I do go out anymore, I often just turn away if it looks like someone might be interested, just to avoid the humiliation and frustration. It makes for an incredibly lonely life...


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## trevor35th

nemesis1 said:


> Its not quite as easy as that. I am kinda good looking (or so I'm often told by people). Girls approach me, I satart acting all shy and I dont know how to be, act or what to say around them. They usually ditch me pretty much asap or at best, have a few dates before they ditch me. This really hurts my self esteem, making my SA worse.


I can relate to that. I wouldn't say I'm good looking, although some girls have said I am. I have an identical twin, and when I was growing up, I overheard a lot of people saying he was better looking than me. We look alike, a lot of people can't tell the difference, but he does have a few features that apparently made him better looking than me. :| He had more girlfriends than me, and that didn't help my self esteem. But he wasn't any better off than me, in terms of self-esteem. When you have anxiety (we both do) and there's physical symptoms involved (like this :afr) it's hard to have much self-confidence.


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## sberkley

I fail to see how looks have anything to do with SA ... Its all about how you socialize not how you look ... And self esteem can indeed be effected by other people .. constant abuse and put downs will effect you over time ..
I am 51 and this is very first time in my life that I feel comfy in my own skin (looks wise) , but I do know that many people have said I was attractive all my life and that had nothing to do with my social issue's..


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## drealm

I never understood beautiful people complaining myself. Every single attractive person I've ever met has testified to hating their own beauty. They feel winning the genetic lottery has given them too much attention. So either every beautiful person I meet is an exception to a perceived advantage, or they're being honest and beauty does bring some downsides. I suppose my own bitterness from being on the bottom end of the pyramid prevents me from seeing their problems. Maybe there should be beautiful-people self-help groups.


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## nemesis1

OKdOut said:


> If you didn't have confidence, you would have taken anything that showed any interest at all. Most people here have confidence to be selective. It is they who are waiting to gain "self confidence" and that in itself is a luxury that only highly confident people have. Low confidence people take whatever they can get without being picky or asking for anything better.


Wrong.

I have little confidence and low self-esteem, but that doesnt mean I would date a girl who i wasnt attracted to. Although I have tried to do that before, i deaded it pretty quickly as it just felt so wrong trying to force myself to get with someone who i have no attraction to.


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## BLK13

One night stands always worked for me...I'm handsom and was able to control my SA with alchohol but the morning after I would just clam up and not be able to say much....but I did have fun......


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## OKdOut

nemesis1 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> I have little confidence and low self-esteem, but that doesnt mean I would date a girl who i wasnt attracted to. Although I have tried to do that before, i deaded it pretty quickly as it just felt so wrong trying to force myself to get with someone who i have no attraction to.


Without Confidence
.............Able to get pretty girls
.............Able to get non-pretty girls

With Confidence
.............Able to get pretty girls
.............Able to get non-pretty girls

Nothing changes between the periods of without confidence and with confidence.

It seems to me, that confidence is some magical property from the planet Krypton that only superman has, because most people here clearly can get everything else they want except confidence.

There's nothing to be gained after getting confidence that you can not get before getting confidence. In fact, most people gain confidence after they get the pretty girl, not before. Confidence is more of an appreciation of what you can get and what you have gotten.

I think amnesia will cure your low self confidence. If you forget your past failures, you'll be able to appreciate all the new opportunities that come your way, and that will built self confidence. You don't need to gain self confidence. You need to lose bad memories of failing to adequately use the confidence that you already have.


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## No Surprises

Whatever positive message you may have intended here, it's heavily shrouded. I can see at least two problems:

First, people who believe themselves to possess positive attributes -- good looks among them -- will naturally have higher self-esteem. There's an element of circularity here.

Second, basing one's sense of self-worth (and yes, I do believe this term can be used interchangeably with self-esteem) predominately or entirely on physical appearance is an idea so vain and depthless that it's literally offensive. I'd hate to be in the company of anyone so psychologically bankrupt that they'd been forced to support themself on this single fragile shaft.


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## yellowpaper

People don't want JUST goodlooking... They want someone they can have fun with. There are plenty of goodlooking people, and they'll move on to them.


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## mind_games

Confidence allows you to fully harness your potential. Potential that is composed of your mental and physical attributes. Without confidence, even the best looking guy in the world (whatever that means) can't achieve a fulfilling life.

Good looks do improve the initial impression you make in the eyes of certain - well many - people, since that's what you notice first in a person (yes there are many exceptions). So looks could get you that first date, or first invite to hangout with someone, but sooner or later people will require more than good looks out of you. They will require personality and the ability to hold a decent interesting conversation, among other things. How do good looks help then?


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## STKinTHEmud

I do believe that attractive people can have low self-esteem, especially among attractive men, since most women don't seem to be as attracted to looks in men as men are in women.

But I also believe more attractive people might have an advantage as far as combating SA goes. Even if you bluster through an interaction in which someone approaches you with intent and nothing comes of it, you are being exposed to an anxiety provoking situation, and more exposure to that situation will lead to desensitization to that situation. The next time you get approached and there is a pause or the person that approaches seems put off by your attitude, say, "I think you're cute," even if it comes out of the blue. Perhaps they are being put off because they don't think you're attracted to them.

I'm not particularly attractive, but I'm definitely not ugly. I've been approached a few times, and I responded poorly, and that made me feel bad about myself. But then again, I do feel pretty good that I was approached in the first place.


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## Cecelia

This reminds me of something that happened to me a while back. One of my friends had dragged me to a bar and I was miserable because I don't drink and felt really uncomfortable there. A man that was sitting at the table next to us got my attention and said "Listen, I'm not trying to pick you up I promise. I just wanted to tell you that you're a beautiful woman and you don't need to be so shy" It was nice that he said that, but at the same time it made me wonder - does that mean you should be shy if you're unattractive?? We'll all be old and wrinkly one day, inner beauty matters too.


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## nemesis1

OKdOut said:


> Without Confidence
> .............Able to get pretty girls
> .............Able to get non-pretty girls
> 
> With Confidence
> .............Able to get pretty girls
> .............Able to get non-pretty girls


With or without confidence I am only able to get non-pretty girls as they dont intimidate me, pretty girls intimidate the hell out of me.



OKdOut said:


> I think amnesia will cure your low self confidence. If you forget your past failures, you'll be able to appreciate all the new opportunities that come your way, and that will built self confidence. You don't need to gain self confidence. You need to lose bad memories of failing to adequately use the confidence that you already have.


I really wish i could forget about past failures, as all i have is memories of rejection and embarrassment when it it comes to approaching (pretty) girls. I also have fear of rejection, which doesnt help matters.

Also, how do you propose I get amnesia? Smash myself over the head with a bat in the hope it deletes my bad memories? Its not like you can get amnesia in a tablet or something.....


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## Roberto

People won't see it if you can't see it in yourself. I don't know why - that is just the way it is.


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## _AJ_

If I was female, you would be right.

but a guy being good looking doesnt matter that much. I dont have any girls after me. with guys its all about skill

sa interferes with getting those skills


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## sabueed

OKdOut said:


> But if you are good looking, you already have good odds of acquiring a member of the opposite sex, and even a good chance of being hired for whatever job you want,so why not just skip the self esteem part.


If its true that society hires people based on good looks, that is just plain wrong. Our society is so screwed up sometimes.


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## carefree

attractiveness is helpful to a degree. There have been plenty of studies done that show that subconsciously people seek out symmetrical faces, for women - a waist to hip ratio of .70 and for men - a triangular strong build and depending on that time of the month a more effeminate face or a strong jawline. There are plenty of studies saying that an attractive person is more likely to be hired and perceived by the general population in a positive light.

But i also think the way one carries themselves also has an impact - you can generally read the level of anxiety a person has by looking at their body language. For example the raised shoulders, lack of eye contact, fidgeting, normally closed body (arms crossed etc) and pointing the body away from others. So like mind_games said, good looks do give you a great first impression but unless you carry yourself well and have some sort of followup its going to be difficult to maintain the positive impression people have of you. 

That being said, as someone on the flip side of the coin that doesn't make a good initial impression and doesn't carry them self well, you can feel like the odds are stacked up against you. At least attractive people do get that initial contact and thus are validated as a human being and able to feel that something about them is able to draw individuals in. Of course I understand not being able to cope afterward can be extremely damaging to ones self-esteem so I can see why the "beauty is a curse" mentality when relating to SA has standing. The way i deal with it is to try to see my body and looks only as a shell and see everyone else's only as a shell and try to get to know the person inside. 

oh, and OkdOut, self confidence can be affected by our view on how we are perceived by others. We construct both our personal and social reality and from this, through introspective means, evaluate ourselves and our behavior. When evaluating many look to feedback from others, social comparison and internal beliefs of oneself. If we believe this is true, people who have SA construct their social reality in a way in which they are disconnected and unsuccessful, obviously negatively affecting their self-image and esteem. No amount of physical attractiveness will detract from this belief because our self belief is what dictates our behavior and if your social reality is plagued by doubt and perceived failure then that becomes more dominant than a few compliments here and there. 

p.s. if i am coming across as rude i really don't mean to be. I'm just saying my opinion but i'll take it down if you find it offensive. and sorry that its so long. I'm not very good at being succinct.
p.s.take 2. sorry if its stupid


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## STKinTHEmud

shoppin_spree said:


> That being said, as someone on the flip side of the coin that doesn't make a good initial impression and doesn't carry them self well, you can feel like the odds are stacked up against you. At least attractive people do get that initial contact and thus are validated as a human being and able to feel that something about them is able to draw individuals in. Of course I understand not being able to cope afterward can be extremely damaging to ones self-esteem so I can see why the "beauty is a curse" mentality when relating to SA has standing. The way i deal with it is to try to see my body and looks only as a shell and see everyone else's only as a shell and try to get to know the person inside.


Good post! I agree. It's a give and take. Of course, I do think it's slightly easier to be good looking with SA than it is to be not so good looking with SA, but maybe that's because I'm taking on a "grass is always greener" mentality (and I'm not sure I'll ever really be able to see things from the other side of the fence).


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## OKdOut

shoppin_spree said:


> attractiveness is helpful to a degree. There have been plenty of studies done that show that subconsciously people seek out symmetrical faces, for women - a waist to hip ratio of .70 and for men - a triangular strong build and depending on that time of the month a more effeminate face or a strong jawline. There are plenty of studies saying that an attractive person is more likely to be hired and perceived by the general population in a positive light.
> 
> But i also think the way one carries themselves also has an impact - you can generally read the level of anxiety a person has by looking at their body language. For example the raised shoulders, lack of eye contact, fidgeting, normally closed body (arms crossed etc) and pointing the body away from others. So like mind_games said, good looks do give you a great first impression but unless you carry yourself well and have some sort of followup its going to be difficult to maintain the positive impression people have of you.
> 
> That being said, as someone on the flip side of the coin that doesn't make a good initial impression and doesn't carry them self well, you can feel like the odds are stacked up against you. At least attractive people do get that initial contact and thus are validated as a human being and able to feel that something about them is able to draw individuals in. Of course I understand not being able to cope afterward can be extremely damaging to ones self-esteem so I can see why the "beauty is a curse" mentality when relating to SA has standing. The way i deal with it is to try to see my body and looks only as a shell and see everyone else's only as a shell and try to get to know the person inside.
> 
> oh, and OkdOut, self confidence can be affected by our view on how we are perceived by others. We construct both our personal and social reality and from this, through introspective means, evaluate ourselves and our behavior. When evaluating many look to feedback from others, social comparison and internal beliefs of oneself. If we believe this is true, people who have SA construct their social reality in a way in which they are disconnected and unsuccessful, obviously negatively affecting their self-image and esteem. No amount of physical attractiveness will detract from this belief because our self belief is what dictates our behavior and if your social reality is plagued by doubt and perceived failure then that becomes more dominant than a few compliments here and there.
> 
> p.s. if i am coming across as rude i really don't mean to be. I'm just saying my opinion but i'll take it down if you find it offensive. and sorry that its so long. I'm not very good at being succinct.
> p.s.take 2. sorry if its stupid


shoppin_spree has pretty much said what I failed to communicate. Her post should be the original post, and mine should be discarded.

I should have said it better. Some people get a free pass on _first impressions_ and if they were to stop trying to make a good first impression but instead accept and appreciate the free pass that they got, I think they would find that they would be more socially effective. I don't think self esteem, self confidence, or self worth is the issue. I think people are just stuck in the wrong stage of getting to know each other, and that may actually make them seem like they have a different mind set than they really do. It really is a big turn off when someone seems to be aloft or indifferent to having a significant advantage over most people.

There is nothing worse that failing to appreciate that which you've gotten for free. And you will never appreciate anything you've worked hard for, until you've also learned to appreciate that which you did not work hard for.


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## AkwardNisa

i know why you'd think that, but you are waaay off. if you're good looking and you have no self esteem and social anxiety, people immediately assume you're stuck up. the only relationships you get are probably one night stands. you hardly make friends, and who's going to hire someone who doesn't know how to confidently look customers in the eye? i don't know many confident people with low self-esteem. i mean, it takes self esteem to make good looks significant..


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## dax

I think good looks help- and especially "being at peace" so to speak with your looks. It's just one less thing to worry about. If I looked better, it would provide a confidence boost to me. A lot of good looking or even just average people take their looks for granted- but if they all of a sudden lost their good looks, I think they'd understand how much more difficult things can be. Not saying it all comes down to looks- but it certainly helps you out to be better looking.


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## ThatWierdGuy

I have to admit, I look pretty good. I have an athletic-build, tall, and people have complimented on my looks. I'm not rich, but I make a decent, stable living. 

I have to emphasize this though, with a huge explanation point, that doesn't stop girls from turning away the moment I open my mouth. IMO, being attractive is hardly an asset if you are a guy. Girls seem to be hard-wired to be turned-off by any form of anxiety. Attention is nothing if you can't maintain it.

Millionaire author Neil Strauss (yes he was successful before The Game) couldn't get a girl at all, until he learned to control his shyness.


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## wraith

I think I'm pretty decent looking and well built, but my not having ever had a gf or even a hug from the opposite sex has nothing to with looks. And even if I was super sexy it wouldn't get me anywhere simply because of my extremely anxiosly ridden introverted personally never being able to go "out there" and give it a shot.


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## snapples

I don't want to blurt out I'm good looking... but I constantly turn heads.

I had low self esteem because people expect someone that looks like me to behave in certain ways... I'm a major dork, nerd, and a tomboy.
This caused me many excruciating rejections after the initial attractions based on appearance...

I also _hate _being hired for my looks. It's extremely demeaning. My SO's brother-in-law got me this job... but he apparently told everyone what a hottie I was and was extremely disappointed that I opted for a super plain look with lack of any make up... even for concealing blemishes.
He brought it up to me several times even...

So yea... I never use my looks to gain a vantage point. I don't think I could live with myself then. I only care to look good when going out for fun... so only for fun occasions.


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## strawberryjulius

^ 

Best. Post. Ever.


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## fixmein45

I think it makes it more difficult, because you mistakenly think you have self confidence because you are comfortable with your appearance, so you don't deal with or acknowledge your own perceived flaws about yourself that make you have such low self esteem.


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## bsd3355

A connection outweighs looks a million to one. You can both be good people but if the slightest misunderstanding or negative "thing" gets in the way then it can be the beginning of the end, and it doesn't matter how good looking you are... truuuuuusst me.

I'd much rather be with someone I loved on the inside than the outside anyways because it would never work out any other way. Attraction may get you in the door but unless your respected on the inside you'll be stepping out just as quick, believe me. I've been called "good looking" on several occasions (not lately lol) and that never stopped anyone from dumping me ever. It happens to everyone and anyone&#8230;

Self-esteem is far, far, far, faaar more important than looks. Back when I was getting hit on the most (once again, not lately [proudly said]), was the same time I wanted to commit suicide, so there is no definitive connection between self-esteem and good looks.

On an even more interesting note, I'd much rather work for something and learn from it than be handed things just because appearance, inheritance, blah, blah, because that is how you mature and learn how to manage that self-esteem that is so valuable. You need to get "shut down" sometimes to get stronger on the inside because it makes you challenge things and it opens you up. Dammit, be proud your a warrior! Haha, seriously...


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## solitarycanadian

When I come face-to-face with another person, I am not thinking about whether I look good or not. I am immediately thinking, "am I blushing". This is usually followed by scanning their body language and facial expressions for any sign that they are uncomfortable with me. 

I've come to realize that other people don't want to converse with someone who is bright red. Maybe becuase they see my blushing as a sign of disaproval on their part. Whatever the reason, if I am good looking or not, it doesn't matter when my face is red. 

If I had to make a choice of having good looks or complete confidence that I won't blush when in public, I would much rather be confident. In 30 years it won't matter what I look like. To me it will just matter if I have a loving family and people to play bingo alongside. Confidence or charisma is one of those intangibles that other people gravitate and stick to. Good looks can real 'em in but once your face is red and you have all the signs of someone who is afraid, they won't stay long.


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## april showers

That's not how it works. From what I've seen, an average looking person with high-self esteem will go alot farther in relationships than a good-looking person with low-self esteem. 

I'm not the most beautiful person out there, but I get complimented on my looks alot. I'm not saying this to sound full of myself or anything, but to show that despite this, I have no friends and never had a guy ask me out nor have been close friends with one. Why? I'm not sure, but it's either because 1.) all those people lied and I'm actually really ugly or 2.) my social anixety and lack of self-esteem is the reason. I'd like to think that it's the second. 

But anyways, having low self-esteem still gets in the way even if you're good looking. It makes you defensive, makes it harder to open up to people, which then makes people assume thet you're stuck up. It can also make you clingy, easily jealous, and desperate. If you're like that then chances are the realtionship won't last and that person will move on. There's more good-looking people in the world. 

Even worse is that people who are controlling and abusive can tell is someone has low self-esteem and they trap those type of people in a relationship. So then that person with low self-esteem is stuck in a unhealthy relationship, which is really hard to get out of if your self-esteem is abyssimal.


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## nothing to fear

if they already have low self-esteem, they probably don't even consider themselves attractive in the first place.

being good looking won't just get you a job or significant other.. although your odds are increased for getting dates, being able to maintain relationships is a completely different matter. 

there are many other aspects in an individual that are just as - if not a lot more important that dictate whether they should feel good about themselves and "worthy" enough to get and hold down a good job and have a successful, happy relationship. 

anyway, i'm sure this or something to its effect has been said already in this thread but i haven't read through all the posts yet.


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## matty

Most people dont see their true beauty and just because you think they are good looking doesnt mean that they see it themselves. 

There is a heap of great ideas and so on within this thread. I would quote everything I agree with but it would take too long. But I dont agree 100% with any post in here. Everyone has different views, we are all different people. There is no magic formula. How one person finds confidence and self belief wont work for another. Play the cards you have and do the best you can do. Any less and your missing out, anymore and you got lucky. Thats life


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## Marasa

I don't think looks make a diff, sometimes they are the target of my stress. but if i feel particularly attractive one day I will find another source of anxiety!!

ppl all have different ideas about what is good looking, and after a while the crazy gets in the way and they reject you any way!

Sometimes I think maybe if i were more attractive it would be easier but its more about what is inside.


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## pita

I think some people might be able to recognize the fact that they're good looking, but still have cripplingly low self-esteem in other areas.


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## Prescious

OKdOut said:


> If you are good looking, why do you care about low self esteem?
> 
> We all agree that one of the major means of gaining human relationships, and general happiness is to have a good self esteem.
> 
> But if you are good looking, you already have good odds of acquiring a member of the opposite sex, and even a good chance of being hired for whatever job you want,so why not just skip the self esteem part.
> 
> I mean if self esteem is a means to an end, and you're already able to get to the end (interested member of the opposite sex), shouldn't you just skip to the second stage, solidifying a new relationship instead of worrying about whether or not you are worthy of the relationship.
> 
> I don't think that things like self esteem can be artificially built. But I think we can learn to live with whatever advantage we may have, as a means of compensating.
> So if you're good looking, I would suggest to just skip self esteem and take advantage of all the perks of being good looking.


I think you have a huge point, I value everybody's opinion here however *I do think that SELF ESTEEM REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW YOU LOOK. IMHO*. Lots of people who look good but have low self esteem still has support from a boyfriend or girlfriend and may even have some friends BUT they still have low self esteem. I'm not really pretty and at the same time I don't really have friends. Except for 2 and they don't even visit. Well except for one once in a while. But you get my point. I am all alone, live alone, just me and the dog. So anyway I believe that had that person been ugly, depending on how they grew up plays a factor too, then things would turn out different. So I do believe that beauty has alot to do with self esteem and it is a sad world when looks takes precedence over whats inside


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## Hello22

I dont think being good looking and self esteem go hand in hand. It depends on how you percieve yourself. I know alot of good looking people who are not as confident about how they look and i often wonder why. I think its to do with your outlook on life and yourself. idk, thats just my take on it.


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## kingfoxy

looks dont matter that much its about personality and confidence you want to be with someon for who they are not what they look like.If you are only interested in looks that makes you a very shallow person indeed. Anyway we all have different ideas on who we find attractive my idea of a perfect woman may be very different from the next man:cup


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## Hello22

^ ya that's true, looks will only get you so far, personality is by far more important to me


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## Alongroadforsomedude

*Missunderstanding*

I think what we are looking at here is some bitterness that I understand. Hes probably just talking about the difference between people who have more potential without the confidence factor. Some people are defiantly ALOT more attractive than others. Its obvious beyond the eye of the beholder. We dont all want the same person or see all people the same way. However there is a big difference between Rosie Odonald and Megan fox without considering their personalities. I'm sure hes probably just trying to express frustration about the difference in potential between being a Rosie Odonald or a Megan Fox. Though I must say outside of "lust rage" there is alot of peace in finding someone who sees you inside regardless of how either one of you looks. :idea


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## fredbloggs02

"There's nothing to be gained after getting confidence that you can not get before getting confidence. In fact, most people gain confidence after they get the pretty girl, not before. Confidence is more of an appreciation of what you can get and what you have gotten."

Being good looking is by no means a free ticket to success on any level. There are many good looking people who haven't, or feel they've never acheived anything I'm sure. There is an element of mystique about wether a good looking person with social phobia inherits the earth. I see people with girlfriends, boyfriends with seemingly normal lives(in comparison to mine). People have only ever experienced their lowest low and their own highest peak. We're playing on different fields. Comparing chicken and eggs never helped me before. Who am I to judge what makes someone happy, sad or confident?


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## Alongroadforsomedude

Im not talking about being blind. Im not talking about 2000 years ago. Im talking about the current concept of conventional beauty. People who fit that descrption have a much better chance of gettin attention from other people who fit that description. If im not mistaken thats what this thread is about. I was trying to identify with how the origonal poster feels. Not insult Rosie Odonald. You need less confidence to attract potential mates if you bring alot of them to you based on how you look alone. What you do with those people is another story all together.


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## scaredtogethelp

Interesting... Um ok... I would like to respond to this... because i am.. um.. "good looking"... but it took me a while to believe it...

Self esteem is important for everyone... just as happiness is.. you should wish high self esteem on everyone just as you would wish that good things or happiness come to people...

Self esteem is *feeling good* about yourself. So whether you are a model or a car accident victim... self esteem is a wonderful thing... it is probably easier when you have good looks.. but depending on the way you are born you may have mental problems... or the way you are raised may affect how you feel... and you could be beautiful in the eyes of others, but hate yourself and want to die... beautiful people have comitted suicide... and hated themselves.. and some people say nasty things like that ***** deserved to die... she was gorgeous and didn't appreciate her gift of good looks... they wish they were bron with those looks and think she deserves to die for not appreciating what she has... but when you are messed up mentally... even if you are physically beautiful.. and beautiful on the inside too.. you are a kind, and good person.. and have a pretty good life... if your head is messed up.. you can feel terrible.. and depressed... etc...

self esteem is like happiness.. like people go to therapy to get over anxiety, depression, ocd, or anything that interferes with them living and enjoying life... self esteem can be a HUGE barrier...

anyone who has low self esteme should seek to improve it if they want...

and i hope from reading this, anyone who feels otherwise will agree now...

and please... be careful what you say...

i haven't attempted suicide in over 6 years.. because when i did back then, I appreciated the small things and realized life could change and i just wanted a better life.. to feel happy.. now, i know that i have mental disorders, and no matter how good life gets, there will be times when i feel it is unbearable or hopeless.. and i have to get through those times...

but one time when i felt that way.. i told someone... and they said you deserve to die, because you don't appreciate anything.... i do appreciate so much, but when my mind switches into depressed mode... nothing seems worht living for...

i don't know what causes happiness or self esteem... definately not looks or money!!! Self esteem, happiness, and all those good feelings are gifts we sometimes get to experience... and you shouldn't tell anyone they don't deserve these feeling simply because they already have a "gift"

I wish everyone the best!


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## scaredtogethelp

just want to emphasize the most important part of my post, because it was so long and a little unorganized...

*Low self esteem can be a HUGE barrier in life!!!!*

just as anxiety, depression, ocd, etc...

any mental problem can prevent you from living or enjoying life

I think everyone deserves help...

Low self esteem is a terrible problem.. prevents you from leaving your home... feeling comfortable... feeling love! etc... it makes you depressed... hate yourself... even if others like you, you will believe you are awful... physically, mentally, etc... Low self esteem causes: depression, anxiety, suicide... It should be it's own separate mental disorder!!! I never thought of it till now, but it is a serious condition... At least sometimes...

There are ways to raise self esteem... For me the best influence has been positive people in my life... Over time I have been guided to open up, and told how much I am loved... Your self esteem and anxiety probably won't go away if you sit at home and never talk to anyone.. People that love you make you feel like you are a good person... And certain people may be able to help you become more comfortable with yourself.. and opening up...

I used to hide in sweatshirts with the hood up... now i walk tall in normal clothes... instead of hifing lol.. but i dtill suffer from low esteem somtimes... not nearly as bad as I used to...

It can get better... No one should feel they have to deal with low self esteem...

I wish everyone the best... lots of love, happiness, and High Self Esteem!!!!

If anyone needs to talk, don't hesitate to send me a message... I am a caring person and whether you are short, tall, skinny, overweight, young, old, male, female, etc... I think everyone deserves help, guidance, love...


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## scaredtogethelp

Alongroadforsomedude said:


> Im not talking about being blind. Im not talking about 2000 years ago. Im talking about the current concept of conventional beauty. People who fit that descrption have a much better chance of gettin attention from other people who fit that description. If im not mistaken thats what this thread is about. I was trying to identify with how the origonal poster feels. Not insult Rosie Odonald. You need less confidence to attract potential mates if you bring alot of them to you based on how you look alone. What you do with those people is another story all together.


ok... yes that is mostly true... if you are good-looking, it is probably easier to be with another good-looking person... But everyone wants different things, and looks are not always important...

I care about personality... I will choose a nice, overweight, short, guy over a tall handsome a-hole... don't know what words we are allowed to say on this site... but you know what i mean..

or suppose i like a good looking guy, he might not like women of my age... maybe he really likes older women...

whatever you want... you should try to find... remember no one is perfect, so don't wait for a perfect gorgeous angel who never gets upset... but you can have an attractive, sweet a lot of the time woman... and not be the guy you would expect she would want... you just have to find the woman who wants what you are... who likes your humor over your body... or breakfast in bed over your baldness... heck.. she might even think your crows feet are cute... or love your smile... your brown eyes make her feel warm inside... or your blue eyes look stunning and make her feel weak in the knees... or your big rough hands seem masculine to her and make her feel like a delicate feminine woman... you get the point...

i think the best quality over any look is sweetness... back rubs before bed... chop up some strawberries and whipped cream... watch the movies she wants... put up with her singing to girly songs in the car... lol... all that stuff is what makes me like my man...

but some girls might find that too sweet.. i don't know... everyone likes different things and thats ok... i hope for people to find a good match, because it is so nice to feel loved and love someone back! Such a great feeling


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## Mark02

This is honestly a hard thread to read. I'm ugly, and I know it. I'm being objective. I've NEVER been told I'm good looking. Girls never flirt with me...never. In fact, they give me disgusted looks and try to avoid me. And I'm ALWAYS neatly dressed, well groomed, showered, smelling clean, etc. :-(

I know confidence is the key since I can't rely on "good looks", but being ugly just hurts. It hurts to know that girls will never be attracted to me at first sight--that I have to display an attractive personality and MAYBE they'll grow to like me. :-(


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## scaredtogethelp

*tastes*

people like different things... what you may think is ugly, someone else might love...

if you could change what you don't like... it might be unappealing to someone... you don't know...

every one is different...

it is ok...

you are the way you are...

don't assume someone won't like you that way... because you might not believe it when someone does... be open to this thought and believe that you are fine the way you are... don't let media, advertisement, or critisizing people make you feel you need to "fix" something...

it's a never-ending obsession...

because theres always something you can find to change... we can't help but be curious if things would be different if we changed something... we can always wonder... and we always will...

just know that... and decide... do you want to forever be struggling to be different... and not be satisfied... or just be ok with how you are whether you are working out and getting toned.. or notice you are aging... nothing is bad... it just is...

hope this made sense...

you are fine the way you are... you can still want to improve yourself and do so, but do it because you know you are ok the way you are and you just want to be the best that you can because you love yourself... not because you feel you aren't good and need to change... you are good.. change is ok... but no matter how you look or feel... it is ok...

it is a good thing to like yourself... that will make you feel better than changing anything... trust me...

it is such a wonderful feeling when you are able to believe that you are a wonderful person... no one is perfect....

strive to feel your best and be proud that you care about yourself... i can tell you think a lot like me... that is a quality... you probably have more qualities than you recognize...

know that others will find the good in you... not everyone, but good people will truely care for you... trust me... just be you... and you will be loved...

there are wonderful people in this world... you will run in to them sometimes.. not all the time.. but when you do, you need to tell yourself that it is real... that they do like you.. the way you are... "flaws" and all...

it took me a long time to believe that people actually liked me...

it's hard to really truely believe, but the more you do... oh, it is so wonderful... the greatest feeling... to know that you are loved for being you... that you are no better or worse than anyone.. you are you... and that is great... you are a unique person.. like anyone else... with different features, emotions, behaviors... and that is the beauty in life... we are all unique... and that is wonderful...

i hope reading this made you feel how it is to think like this.. even if just for a moment...

let me know


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## Alongroadforsomedude

*Summary time..*

Ok everyones way off the point lol. Im glad all you pretty people get to make value judgments about choosing between looks and personality. The fact that you feel comfrotable contrasting those things makes you seem alittle fake. As if dating a shorter guy was only considerable if hes nice.... Otherwise just jump on the better looking guy whos taller, better looking ect.

The deal with this thread is.

1. We all want differant things.

2. You have more options in life if you are good looking than someone who is exactly like you but not as good looking.

3. Good looking people can be really FUBAR. Ie: body dismorphic disorder, social anxiety, anorexia ect.

4. You cant "choose" to skip self confidence part if you are really unstable or mentally ill.

5. Alot of unstable pretty guys and girls have lovers kissing their ***. While the less atractive people suffer alone endlessly because they just dont have the same pull.

6. Its really hard not to be shallow. We all know looks matter and perceptions my vary. Some of us are more or less shallow (good looking or not).

7. Not all good looking or not so good looking people can be pigeon holed because there are so many differant circumstances in each individuals life.


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## thatoddquietgirl

...self esteem is not something you choose. just like sa is not something you choose. if you feel you are worthless, you will always see yourself as worthless no matter how good looking you are. you should check out my thread: attractive girls can't have anxiety: it'll probably clear up alot.


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## RosieApple

Haha If you cross the street because you are so scared that cute guy might talk to you then being Pretty Really doesn't Help!


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## roverred

"And you will never appreciate anything you've worked hard for, until you've also learned to appreciate that which you did not work hard for."

Very good quote OKd. Tend to forget that. 

Didn't read the whole thread but I have to say good self esteem is confidence. I find that confidence is usually misconstrued for big ego, arrogrance, etc. I suppose they both give off a bold strength of character in the end, but different amounts of aggressiveness. Confident people are usually assertive, while people with big ego can be aggressive. 

Self-esteem is a belief system so you can, without a doubt, be sexy but have a horrible self-esteem. People with body dysmorphic disorder, I think is a good example. You can't change that belief system so easily, even though logically we can see how self-worth is independent of others and really based only on ourselves.


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## Brew

Somebody who was say, fat, scarred or simply unkempt in early life would be looked at oddly with glances turned away quicky.

Who then went on to lose weight, become fit, attractive & look after themselves, would be met with roughly the same glances. People would look, be attracted, see you look back, see you look away quickly, feel the rejection and look away uncomfortably themselves.

But the person with SA knows only what he has grown up feeling. Rejection.

SA goes both ways. Its a vicious circle.

Good looks can be a curse as much as a boon, if you cant handle getting attention from people.


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## cinammon

sberkley said:


> I fail to see how looks have anything to do with SA ... Its all about how you socialize not how you look ... And self esteem can indeed be effected by other people .. constant abuse and put downs will effect you over time ..
> I am 51 and this is very first time in my life that I feel comfy in my own skin (looks wise) , but I do know that many people have said I was attractive all my life and that had nothing to do with my social issue's..


This is very true, confidence is key when socializing with others and meeting other people and what a person looks like has NOTHING to do with whether a person has self esteem or not.


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## LostProphet

strawberryjulius said:


> Uhmm, it's doesn't really work like that..


^This.


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## Saekon

My mum and aunts call me handsome all the time (and I absolutely agree with them, I am hawt!), but I still have SAD.



LostProphet said:


> strawberryjulius said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhmm, it's doesn't really work like that..
> 
> 
> 
> ^This.
Click to expand...

^That.


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## SusanStorm

I'm having a hard time with this because to be able to see yourself as good looking it helps if people confirm that.
For instance,I was told I was ugly through my childhood and teen years so that makes me doubt that I am good looking.It's a thought that has stuck in my mind.How do I know?I know that people have different standards when it comes to what good looking is,I do too,but I fail to see myself as good looking.
I look at pictures of myself and I honestly think that I look like crap,thinking 'Is this what I look like?' when I earlier saw myself in the mirror and thought that I looked ok.
I am finding it hard to believe that I am good looking and I how can I believe it when I almost never get compliments about it?

But I do agree that being beautiful doesn't really have anything to do with how good you are at socializing.I just wish that I could be able to see something good about what I look like.Being comfortable with what you look like is pretty important also.
I still see myself as that clumsy,akward girl who was too tall for anything and anyone sometimes..


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## LostPancake

joinmartin said:


> Some people are ALOT more attractive than others? Really?


???



Alongroadforsomedude said:


> 5. Alot of unstable pretty guys and girls have lovers kissing their ***. While the less atractive people suffer alone endlessly because they just dont have the same pull.


Aye.


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## mcmuffinme

I am alright looking, but my dad was absurdly attractive in high school, and girls would fall all over themselves to date him. Still, his parents abused him, and he had a highly dysfunctional family, as well as being naturally very shy. 

He considered himself agoraphobic at a certain point. He said he went on a double date with a friend, and didn't say a single word to the girl he was with. He said she told his friend, "He seems nice, but he didn't say anything!" or something along those lines, and so that was it for them.

My dad told me this when I was at the peak of my SA and it helped. He also recalls his store manager getting mad at him for dropping someone's groceries in an embarrassing way, and he is very sensitive so he began to cry, and felt humiliated (since guys are supposed to be macho and have no feelings according to our messed up society). 

So, I think being good looking does not necessarily equate social success, although, I think it could open you up to more opportunities to progress.


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## TheVigil1

Having SA doesn't have anything to do with how attractive you are. When you have SA, you over-analyze everything, including your looks.

I used to think I was incredibly unattractive and I got no where with women. After a heavy bought with my self-esteem, I have come to see myself as a pretty attractive guy.

Nevertheless, I still haven't been in a serious relationship.

Simply being "attractive" (not even sure what that means) might get others interested in you, but you can't simply "take advantage of it." No matter what you look like, if you are terrified of social interaction and avoid it, it makes it very difficult to enter relationships with people.

Thinking about it simply in terms of looks or self-worth or otherwise is simplistic and, frankly, destructive.


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## LostPancake

^ Okay, I get what you're saying. It just struck me as odd in the context of talking about good looking people, because you seemed to be denying that they exist!

That of course, went against all my notions about the world. 

I do think there is a biological basis for being good looking, and you can talk about people being good looking, in the sense of how they would be rated on average by a bunch of people. 

But I actually like your way of deconstructing all these basic assumptions we have about life. 

Like I've always kind of frozen myself into the idea of being not good looking. Even though some people have been attracted to me. Then I think, what is wrong with them? But if I free myself from that assumption, then I can see that I could be good looking to some people, and not to others. And maybe that's a better way of seeing yourself than just "not good looking", period.


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## Saekon

LostPancake said:


> Even though some people have been attracted to me. Then I think, what is wrong with them?


I had this very thought just today :blank.


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## Kathe

OKdOut said:


> So if you're good looking, I would suggest to just skip self esteem and take advantage of all the perks of being good looking.


Do you think good looking people are just born that way? 
Think again. Self esteem is a large factor in how attractive a person is.


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## Crystalline

Looks are highly subjective. Only a small percentage of men and women meet the universal standard of beauty (meaning they'd be recognised as good looking no matter where they went). I don't see the appreciation of beauty as shallow either; we're hardwired to recognise certain traits as attractive because they are indicators of desirable genetic stock, and denying that biological, in-built wiring is just stupid. No-one really thought of the Greeks as shallow for placing physical perfection on a pedestal. Tempering this inclination to recognise beauty or lack of it with compassion and kindness is what being human is for.


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## Jason104

i cover my social anxiety well most of the time...becuz i have good social skills becuz my social anxiety is very recent ....people call me good looking and approach me and i make a good first immpression but after i know them after a while i would try to avoid them like eye contact and stuff ....becuz i feel awkward


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## Atari82

If I was good looking I'd have NO SA AT ALL, Also If I Was White not being racist, its just that being Indian is kinda hard in America i just don't fit in yet I want to, no matter what I do its really hard for me.


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## Freiheit

I don't think looks matter _that much_. People judge others based on numerous factors, looks is only one of them. Plus, looks are based on other peoples' opinion. One person may find a seemingly typically good looking person to be_ highly_ good looking because that's just his/her taste, while another will find the same person just "ok" or "average" sort of good looking... There are many "good looking" people in the world, just as there are many "not so good looking" so it's not really something that is really made a big deal of by people in general.

I think overall, people care about how you _react_ to them and to others. A person may be confident _*and* _attractive but if they don't really behave naturally and respond to others in a positive way, then chances are, people won't be that interested in getting to know them, despite the fact that they have confidence _*and*_ are good looking.


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## Hamtown

Well i think that someone who is ugly but is more happy,relaxed,open is going to appear far more attractive then a guy who is good looking but depressed,uncomfortable,sad etc.When i'm all slouched,unconfident,non sociable apparently i'm really ugly but when i sit up straight and actually try use a smile i'm incredibly good looking.Alot of girls have said"you should sit up straight you would look much nicer".

I make the effort to do that now.


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## HipHopHead

Crystalline said:


> Looks are highly subjective. Only a small percentage of men and women meet the universal standard of beauty (meaning they'd be recognised as good looking no matter where they went). I don't see the appreciation of beauty as shallow either; we're hardwired to recognise certain traits as attractive because they are indicators of desirable genetic stock, and denying that biological, in-built wiring is just stupid. No-one really thought of the Greeks as shallow for placing physical perfection on a pedestal. Tempering this inclination to recognise beauty or lack of it with compassion and kindness is what being human is for.


real talk.
thats why i guess im a little optimistic if i am regected by a girl because i know its nothing personal, people just want the best they can get. If there was 2 people selling TV's and one was a 52" and one was a 42" but they were both the same price, which one would you buy? random example but still


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## Mr_nobody

I don't really see myself as being "good looking" but I have gotten some compliments in the past. Although, most of the compliments I get are from older relatives (my dad's aunts and cousins- thanks but it doesn't really mean **** coming from family) or, oddly enough, from other guys- straight guys. I think the guys just say things like "You're a decent looking guy" just to get me to stop putting myself down. I may have heard some girls call me cute but that was before puberty and I haven't heard it since. It was like as soon as I started growing facial hair I became disgusting. Ever since then all I hear from girls is a collective "Eeeewwww" as I pass them. I may have a baby-face and look somewhat decent when I'm clean-shaven but I think what holds me back and makes me sort of less than attractive to girls is the fact that I'm very skinny. It seems like the kind of girls I'm attracted to want a guy who can pick them up and throw them over their shoulder. Believe me, I have realistic standards- I'm not chasing after supermodels. The only women who seem to find me the least bit attractive are the ones who are obese and probably desperate. No offense to bigger people but I just don't particularly find that attractive (there are people who do, just not me, sorry). I'm not a shallow person but you do have to draw the line somewhere.

I think this got a bit off topic. Oops


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## Godless1

To the OP,
I know its easy to believe that there is a one to one correlation between self-esteem and physical appearance, but, trust me, there isn't. You could just as easily have suggested that people can't have low-self esteem if they are intelligent, wealthy, young, funny, etc. It is but one of a multitude of characteristics that make up a person. 

The funny thing is I used to pretty much feel the same way you do. For the majority of my life I was pretty short, pudgy, and generally slow developing. Several years ago I started eating better and working out. Now I am 24 and, dare I say, pretty good looking. 

That has in no way, however, helped me overcome any of my crippling self-esteem issues. Regardless of my physical strides, my overall opinion of myself remains awful, and I am still just as bad, if not worse, in social situations. As others have stated, being attractive put more pressure on someone. It gives me another reason to think people are looking at me, and it makes me think I have a higher standard to live up to, among other things.

The problem is people are hardwired to look for easy solutions to complex problems. So, for example, when someone has terrible self-esteem, they want to find one thing about themselves to fix in order to make it all better. This happens all the time with people and their weight. People think that if they just can get down to a certain weight everything will get better. People ignore the fact their self-esteem, or self-worth, or self-concept, or whatever, is made up of so much more than one or two ideas.


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## percyblueraincoat

*hmm*

"I do think there is a biological basis for being good looking, and you can talk about people being good looking, in the sense of how they would be rated on average by a bunch of people."

Okay, leave aside for the moment that finding a bunch of "average" people would be very difficult (because "average" is yet another thing that's subjective, relative, fluid and moving)...if you did manage to find a group of people and they rated one person as either "good looking" or "not good looking", does that make that group of people right? Life is not a science experiment. All you would have from such an exercise would be a bunch of relative, subjective, fluid and moving opinions about one person's looks. In the Tudor times in my country, you were considered "good looking" by some if you had a massive beard and an even bigger belly. The "biological basis" for "good looking"- if indeed such a thing actually exists or holds as a concept- fluctuates, moves, is relative and subjective.

"Looks are highly subjective."

Well, they are subjective.

"Only a small percentage of men and women meet the universal standard of beauty (meaning they'd be recognised as good looking no matter where they went). "

Universal standard? What universal standard? There is no universal standard so it's a bit difficult for any percentage of men and women to meet it. We've got people on here saying "I have a realistic standards because I don't go after supermodels". Well, are all supermodels good looking? Who says? Because there really does seem to be a belief on this forum that there's some all seeing authority on what is and what is not attractive or good looking.

"I don't see the appreciation of beauty as shallow either; we're hardwired to recognise certain traits as attractive because they are indicators of desirable genetic stock, and denying that biological, in-built wiring is just stupid."

Beauty goes beyond looks for starters. Appreciation of looks is subjective, relative, fluid and moving and vulnerable to perceptions, perspectives, moods and all kind of other stuff. Beauty is not a "static".


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## matty

No Matter what your throwing down there are people in this world which will be very attracted to you. Everyone is different,


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## jim_morrison

If a person suffers from social anxiety then chances are lower that they will attend party's/social functions on a regularl basis, or talk to people at school/work etc, in some cases they may even be agoraphobic and never leave their house. So in these cases even if a person does happen to be what is considered subjectively by society to be 'good looking' it's not exactly going to assure them a better quality of life if the idea of walking out their front door every morning or making eye contact with a person on the bus ride to work scares the pants off of them.


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## AntiADs

OP- when you say "good-looking", what are talking about? Strictly facial looks or what?


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## HipHopHead

OKdOut said:


> If you are good looking, why do you care about low self esteem?
> 
> We all agree that one of the major means of gaining human relationships, and general happiness is to have a good self esteem.
> 
> But if you are good looking, you already have good odds of acquiring a member of the opposite sex, and even a good chance of being hired for whatever job you want,so why not just skip the self esteem part.
> 
> I mean if self esteem is a means to an end, and you're already able to get to the end (interested member of the opposite sex), shouldn't you just skip to the second stage, solidifying a new relationship instead of worrying about whether or not you are worthy of the relationship.
> 
> I don't think that things like self esteem can be artificially built. But I think we can learn to live with whatever advantage we may have, as a means of compensating.
> So if you're good looking, I would suggest to just skip self esteem and take advantage of all the perks of being good looking.


I dont exactly consider myself "good looking" but i have been complimented before on my looks. But i can sure tell you I WASN'T good looking for a while.. as i grew i grew into my body and filled out, cut my hair, and thats when i started to get more attention.. and it just lead to more pressure.. more people EXPECT since your decent looking or even borderline FINE that you would never be... "shy". It kind of just adds to situations some times.. i have a friend the same way a bit, ugly duckling syndrome.. but he handles the attention a bit different than me .. it aint easy.. it can make or break a person easy


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## VIncymon

I am so frikkin handsome that I can get a random girl to walk up to me and start talking, thinking she has met a fun man ... and with a month she will lose interest. That is how good looking I am.

Unfortunately, good looks aren't much for men in terms of attracting women. I can guarantee you, if Brad Pitt had a different personality women would talk about him less.


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## dissolvedgirl

appearance is only a small fraction of what shapes our self-esteem. sure, it helps but doesn't overpower an over-all crappy self-image. in some cases, it causes a block of thinking like "they think im just a pretty face who cant handle herself, what an idiot"


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## Jimminy_Billy_Bob

One of these type threads seem to pop up every day, and almost always the same sort of things are said...


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## AntiADs

HipHopHead said:


> I dont exactly consider myself "good looking" but i have been complimented before on my looks. But i can sure tell you I WASN'T good looking for a while.. as i grew i grew into my body and filled out, cut my hair, and thats when i started to get more attention.. and it just lead to more pressure.. more people EXPECT since your decent looking or even borderline FINE that you would never be... "shy". It kind of just adds to situations some times.. i have a friend the same way a bit, ugly duckling syndrome.. but he handles the attention a bit different than me .. it aint easy.. it can make or break a person easy


How tall are you? Do you think your height has anything to do with it?

I realize that I have social anxiety all because of one thing: my height. I feel like a disgrace and pathetic that I'm under 5 foot 10. I foot 8-9, and even though I'm muscular and athletic I feel that doesn't mean anything because of my height. People just look at me and see that I didn't hit that 5 foot 10 mark and give a little snarl, like I look like a child, and it kills me. And I'm good looking too... but again I'm short and I can't even leave my house cause of it.


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## percyblueraincoat

*hmm*

"So in these cases even if a person does happen to be what is considered subjectively by society to be 'good looking' it's not exactly going to assure them a better quality of life if the idea of walking out their front door every morning or making eye contact with a person on the bus ride to work scares the pants off of them."

Very well said. Although what exactly does "society" consider to be "good looking"? Society doesn't really consider anything or anyone good looking. People do. And they don't do so in conformity with each other anywhere near as much as some people on here assume they do. Brad Pitt is apparently good looking to some people. To some people. People are good looking to some people and not to others and then things can change because it's subjective, relative and fluid.

"I realize that I have social anxiety all because of one thing: my height. I feel like a disgrace and pathetic that I'm under 5 foot 10. I foot 8-9, and even though I'm muscular and athletic I feel that doesn't mean anything because of my height. People just look at me and see that I didn't hit that 5 foot 10 mark and give a little snarl, like I look like a child, and it kills me. And I'm good looking too... but again I'm short and I can't even leave my house cause of it."

So, everybody you meet automatically picks up on the one thing you've been using to reject yourself and judges you for it by giving you looks and snarls and....are you sure? How do you know that's why those looks are being given or even if they are being given in the way you think they are?

How are you pathetic because of your height? What? You never seen a girl with a guy your height? Never seen a successful man who was your height? And of course, all the people taller than you are much better and happier and...your height does not define you so it's best to not act like it does.

And if other people do have a problem with it, that's there issue. Let it be their issue.


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## CabecitaSilenciosa

This topic, speaking about what is "good-looking" and what isn't, always brings this to mind. Those of you who have never seen this, I really suggest you do :yes:


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## elle21roses

Just because you're good looking doesn't mean you will aquire a member of the opposite sex or land a good job(in some cases you can, but I'd like to think that's not the way it is everywhere) You gotta have a personality and skill, otherwise when your looks go, you're screwed!


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## Pennywise

I don't think it's that simple. Self esteem and confidence actually are more important than looks. If you give off a vibe of self-loathing and low self-esteem, it doesn't matter how good looking you are; people will be turned off by you. Although, being good looking is an advantage, because people may be more likely to approach you if you are. But when they meet you or (try to) talk to you, they will sense your negative attitude.


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## zeebraynz

OKdOut said:


> Without Confidence
> .............Able to get pretty girls
> .............Able to get non-pretty girls
> 
> With Confidence
> .............Able to get pretty girls
> .............Able to get non-pretty girls
> 
> Nothing changes between the periods of without confidence and with confidence.
> 
> It seems to me, that confidence is some magical property from the planet Krypton that only superman has, because most people here clearly can get everything else they want except confidence.
> 
> There's nothing to be gained after getting confidence that you can not get before getting confidence. In fact, most people gain confidence after they get the pretty girl, not before. Confidence is more of an appreciation of what you can get and what you have gotten.
> 
> I think amnesia will cure your low self confidence. If you forget your past failures, you'll be able to appreciate all the new opportunities that come your way, and that will built self confidence. You don't need to gain self confidence. You need to lose bad memories of failing to adequately use the confidence that you already have.


Its not something that is black and white. First of all without confidence one is less likely to approach a women that they are interested thus hindering their chances of getting the "pretty" girl(which is still subjective). Even if one is "good looking". So that's a definite change.

And i think self confidence is affected by how you feel about yourself(Self-worth). And sometimes people don't feel like they are good enough for anyone even if they are "good looking" because of irrational beliefs which have been learned from experiences. If they don't fully accept themselves how can they accept anyone else or hope that others will fulfill their own acceptance needs. Once they accept themselves being happy becomes an easier thing to do and i think thats what most people want; is to be happy. Whats the point of being with someone if you are not happy?


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## Grilledpotatoes

OKdOut said:


> Without Confidence
> .............Able to get pretty girls
> .............Able to get non-pretty girls
> 
> With Confidence
> .............Able to get pretty girls
> .............Able to get non-pretty girls
> 
> Nothing changes between the periods of without confidence and with confidence.
> 
> It seems to me, that confidence is some magical property from the planet Krypton that only superman has, because most people here clearly can get everything else they want except confidence.
> 
> There's nothing to be gained after getting confidence that you can not get before getting confidence. In fact, most people gain confidence after they get the pretty girl, not before. Confidence is more of an appreciation of what you can get and what you have gotten.
> 
> I think amnesia will cure your low self confidence. If you forget your past failures, you'll be able to appreciate all the new opportunities that come your way, and that will built self confidence. You don't need to gain self confidence. You need to lose bad memories of failing to adequately use the confidence that you already have.


Hmm, I can agree on this, but as for the relationship or dating game there are more factors than attractions based upon good looks.

Getting a clean slate seems wonderful though.


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## CopadoMexicano

OKdOut said:


> If you are good looking, why do you care about low self esteem?


Because my self esteem is _very _low..

I just noticed this thread is from 2010 like the op is going to reply back anytime soon..:lol


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## bigdan23

I think your theory has good intentions but not necessarily correct. For example, do you think most people just solely place their self-esteem on appearance? What about performance at work? Interacting with new people? Or even performing well at sport? The mind is very complex and I think your theory is a little simplistic - being good looking isn't the be all and end all.


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## Moonlight86

OKdOut said:


> But if you are good looking, you already have good odds of acquiring a member of the opposite sex


Sure, but 99,99% of the people you could choose to be with are worthless jerks. Not every good looking person will settle for that.



> and even a good chance of being hired for whatever job you want,


That's not true. I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I live whoever you apply for a job at won't necessarily get to see you in person or pictures of you - so they might judge you on other things. Like, if your name is foreighn sounding, they'll immediately throw your application in the bin, because they don't like to hire someone of foreighn extraction.

But yeah, self-esteem is important, as long as you have that, the little things shouldn't be getting you down. However, no humanbeing can go through life without sometimes doubting oneself and feeling bad about oneself...it happens to even the most confident people...


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## geepeeone

OKdOut said:


> If you are good looking, why do you care about low self esteem?
> 
> I mean if self esteem is a means to an end, and you're already able to get to the end (interested member of the opposite sex), shouldn't you just skip to the second stage, solidifying a new relationship instead of worrying about whether or not you are worthy of the relationship.
> 
> .


My honest reaction to this post was, "Wow, what a genuinely fresh and pragmatic way of looking at things." Then I felt, no, more like compelled, to look at how old you are, partly because of the rarity of perceptive thoughts I come across these boards.

After that, I started chewing this food for thought and may be masticating on it throughout my day today...thx


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## DeeperUnderstanding

VIncymon said:


> I am so frikkin handsome that I can get a random girl to walk up to me and start talking, thinking she has met a fun man ... and with a month she will lose interest. That is how good looking I am.
> 
> Unfortunately, good looks aren't much for men in terms of attracting women. I can guarantee you, if Brad Pitt had a different personality women would talk about him less.


Exactly.

I don't think I'm bad looking, but women generally don't want to date me, because I'm shy.


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## lost91

bump


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## visualkeirockstar

How do you know you're good looking?


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## VanGogh

I officially hate this thread. It's full of replies made up of delusional unrealities based on conjecture.


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## pcofwork

*Good looks doesn't cure all!*

I have been blessed with good looks, and a very nice figure (so I've been told). Sometimes I am confident about them, sometimes not. As with anyone, I have a sometimes warped view of myself, but when I walk into a room If i dont feel confident, I bloody well fake it. Just because I have good looks, doesnt discount the fact that I am a distrusting person, fearful that someone is going to hurt me on many levels. Don't be so closed minded, I have many issues, just because some of us hide them better, does not mean that they don't exist. I just don't want people to be able to use my anxiety as a weapon against me. See? I told you I was one sick puppy. Lol. Open your heart and mind, and see that every person has a unique perspective.


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## rawrguy

strawberryjulius said:


> Uhmm, it's doesn't really work like that..


:ditto


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## Zack

I'm "very handsome" - my grandmother always says this. But I agree that it isn't a shortcut to getting booty because we beautiful ones are sometimes shy too.


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## Ltblue

You know last week I was shopping for a mother's day present at a local jewelry store. I had walked to the jewelry store from my business(only a few blocks away) and as soon as I got there, I was a bit anxious and started to sweat. There was an attractive girl in her 20's there and when i saw her it made me even more anxious. I asked for a specific item, liked it, and asked for it. When she was wrapping it up, she took a very long time almost like she was waiting for me to start a conversation with her. As much as i wanted to talk to her some more, I also wanted to just get out of there. So after the awkward pause, she wrapped it up, I paid, and just lefted. Confidence don't mean anything when you have waterworks pouring down your face.


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## Etal_ Ladybug

This simply isn't true.I've been told that i am a good looking girl.Butt, i have low self esteem.Why? Because i don't love myself.Regardless how you look, if you don't love yourself you can't love somebody else.Looks can only take you so far butt in the end it comes to confidence and how you take care of yourself.Most good guys, what a woman with substance not someone who's a bobble head with just a pretty face.


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## tristatejosh

Being good looking and high self-worth are not always proportionate. I myself am pretty much a tall, decent athletically built and mood eyed guy but I haven't had a date for over a year now. Self worth is more than just having good looks. I believe it's about having self respect, having things to contribute, being an asset, being nice to be around, giving a positive vibe. I am always trying to improve myself, I might be decent but I still have issues with my worth and what I contribute besides being a nice person.


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## Supra

I'm probably 7/10 and I don't have low self esteem.


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## slytherin

Some people put way too much importance on looks. You just don't get it- yes, good looks will sometimes help you get started with things, like getting approached by people, but if you're painfully shy and awkward, you'll never get past that first stage. Personality is a big big factor as well, and much more important to gaining things and keeping those gains. There are plenty of unattractive people who are never without dates, have loads of friends, and a good job, because of their _personality_.

It seems you're saying that your life is fixed from the moment your looks are (correct me if I'm wrong). Even if we ignored the above, your looks change all the time. Someone may be unattractive when they're younger and get attractive later, and vice versa.

I hate when people in the photos sections say to people "wow you're so good-looking, how do you have social anxiety?" Because low self-esteem isn't limited to people who are told they aren't physically attractive? It's something that's in the mind and does not discriminate based on the outside appearance. Low self esteem can be tied to rejection, failures in tasks which have nothing to do with appearance, etc....


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## Nataliewho

Wehttam said:


> Good looks have nothing to do with it, low self esteem is feeling inferior as a person and fear being judged personality wise, knowledge wise, language wise, what good is it to be good looking and have girls approach you to then feel stunned mentally as to what to say? good looks actually makes SA worse because many try to flirt with you and you're expected to have a bit of self confidence since they assume you were popular in school or whatever...or at least having SA makes you believe they expect you to be that way putting more pressure on you.


I totally agree with what you said. When you're attractive, people tend to stare at you a lot more and expect certain traits from your personality. It's the whole idea of people coming up to you and not knowing what to say that's terrifying. After that happens and you mess up, you feel like you've disappointed the other person by being so shy or awkward. Recently, I've come to realize that looks mean only so much. If there isn't any personality behind it, no one is going to care who you are or what you do. Well, I've certainly experienced that in my life anyway.


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## Raavi

Well looking at the kind of people in my college, good looks get you tons of "friends". For a while, at least.
I've been complimented on being good-looking a few times, although it has done nothing for my self-esteem. I still don't think I'm pretty. I've also been suggested to wear more "feminine" clothes and some make-up, like most of the other girls. But it's kind of scary to do that and have more eyes on you; in fact I'd rather not be seen at all. I wonder how many people do that; when they could look better, they try to look ordinary as that would mean fewer conversations.


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## kieffer

I just want to say THANK YOU ALL for you honesty. I am with amhett


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## tooljunkie

Nataliewho said:


> I totally agree with what you said. When you're attractive, people tend to stare at you a lot more and expect certain traits from your personality. It's the whole idea of people coming up to you and not knowing what to say that's terrifying. After that happens and you mess up, you feel like you've disappointed the other person by being so shy or awkward. Recently, I've come to realize that looks mean only so much. If there isn't any personality behind it, no one is going to care who you are or what you do. Well, I've certainly experienced that in my life anyway.


Well said.


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## StellainMe

I disagree with this totally... I am a good looking woman who suffered from low self-esteem since I was a child. It's like what people expect me that my look would be confident, fun, outgoing but on the contrary... I try to please everyone and care too much on what other people think... I serve their needs first and never took good care of myself... always say yes to people and never listen to my opinion. Sometimes when I dress up good, I feel proud but when seeing someone better in me in look or other things like social situations, knowledge, I feel down again. That's what it's like to have low self-esteem. It's about how we feel about ourselves not the way we look. I'm suffering from it and still try to work to have better self of me... any recommendations from the good looking girl?


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## zero5221

To be honest even though I don't like the way I look, many people do find me very good looking. Confidence is more than just looks and even in terms of looks, one can be insecure about their appearance and be very good looking. For me, I personally just don't feel my face matches my personality and that's why I'm insecure about it.


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## bbrownleather

it doesn't matter if you are good looking, only if good things happen to you, to feed your "self esteem".


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## Terranaut

Not everyone who is good-looking is just just blessed with the luck. They may have to work at it and may also have suffered ridicule. This happened to me. I was a fat child. Then in my mid teems I lost over 100 lbs and became what girls often call a hunk. I didn't feel like a natural hunk. I had SA because of the treatment I grew up with. I have recurring bouts with obesity and it's astonishing how you get overlooked if you don't look perfect. The times I lost big weight I still had SA and was shy. I blushed and was embarassed about it. Finally Prozac came along and I stopped blushing. I fit into nice suits and wore nice shirt and tie combos. Nice shoes help too. I got on a subway once and I heard two older women talking and I know they were noticing me. I heard one say to the other "now that's the way a man SHOULD look". Oh man, my self-esteem soared to hear that. I started to learn that people are more concerned with how they are judged than judging me. That gave me liscense to mix it up with women and go anwhere and assert myself in male power circles. I was an idea guy with cutting edge knowledge and skills and was hunting for partners to build an enterprize.


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## Hope93

Its not that easy (i wish it was), I am good looking but some people don t look at that as a priority over other traits. For example someone who is hiring you, depending on the kind of job, might see you being good looking as an added bonus, but might be more interested in you being self confident. Usually someone who has more self esteem and is unattractive, can be more attractive than someone who is good looking but has no self esteem. I personally believe your personality affects the outcome of many opportunities, more than your looks.


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## Vanishing Dreams

When virtually everyone you meet consider you boring, it doesn't matter how good you look. I'm able to bring people in or people come to me, but they sure not going to stay.


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## truant

Vanishing Dreams said:


> When virtually everyone you meet consider you boring, it doesn't matter how good you look. I'm able to bring people in or people come to me, but they sure not going to stay.


You need a bit of both. An attractive personality, by itself, is as useless as an attractive body by itself.

Personalities are developed, just like muscles. They won't grow unless you flex them in various ways. You're not doomed to be boring, though it can be as challenging to change your personality as it is to change your body.


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## Vanishing Dreams

truant said:


> You need a bit of both. An attractive personality, by itself, is as useless as an attractive body by itself.
> 
> Personalities are developed, just like muscles. They won't grow unless you flex them in various ways. You're not doomed to be boring, though it can be as challenging to change your personality as it is to change your body.


meh I just gave up. I just take way too long to open for people to really to get to know me. There will always be someone more entertaining than me to hang out with.


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## xxDark Horse

There are some days where I wish I was hot. I don't really fit the stereotypical "hotness". I'm certainly not tall nor have the body of a greek god nor the face of a sexy testosteronized alpha male. 

But then again, you don't even have to be that hot to find a girl. Iv'e seen guys who weren't the most attractive in the world get girls. A lot of guys, when they see a not so attractive guy with an attractive girl, they think what does she see in him? I'm so much better then he is. 

My favorite guys to observe are the ugly guys who are succesful with women. Why? Because I try to look for traits or things they do to impress girls and I try to mimic what he's doing.


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## jrmuniz96

It's actually harder if you're a good looking male. Since, I get really tense and nervous around women they usually ditch me as soon as they find out the way in which I am. They mistake my manners/kindness for weakness. My self esteem is freakin horrible man and I'm relatively good looking. Some Females have a dumb mentality that just bc a guy is attractive he must have a lot of girls he talks to, or he must be a player, or he should be very good at flirting just bc he's cute. None of that comes with good looks.

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## RenegadeReloaded

OKdOut said:


> But if you are good looking, you already have good odds of acquiring a member of the opposite sex, and even a good chance of being hired for whatever job you want,so why not just skip the self esteem part.


I think this applies mostly for girls at finding a mate or at finding a job that somehow requires good looks.

If you are a boy, looks alone will not bring you a relationship, self esteem will, looks is just a bonus. I personally am confident enough about my looks (I'm far from being a model though), but I don't see how looks is helping me in personal or professional life. Sure it helps, but it is in the best case listed at 'others'. I'm confident in my skills at the job I'm wanting to pursue too.

But when it comes to social skills on the other hand, I'm not so confident. Social anxiety is on a rampage in my life.


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## Darktower776

jrmuniz96 said:


> It's actually harder if you're a good looking male. Since, I get really tense and nervous around women they usually ditch me as soon as they find out the way in which I am. They mistake my manners/kindness for weakness. My self esteem is freakin horrible man and I'm relatively good looking. Some Females have a dumb mentality that just bc a guy is attractive he must have a lot of girls he talks to, or he must be a player, or he should be very good at flirting just bc he's cute. None of that comes with good looks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk





RenegadeReloaded said:


> I think this applies mostly for girls at finding a mate or at finding a job that somehow requires good looks.
> 
> If you are a boy, looks alone will not bring you a relationship, self esteem will, looks is just a bonus. I personally am confident enough about my looks (I'm far from being a model though), but I don't see how looks is helping me in personal or professional life. Sure it helps, but it is in the best case listed at 'others'. I'm confident in my skills at the job I'm wanting to pursue too.
> 
> But when it comes to social skills on the other hand, I'm not so confident. Social anxiety is on a rampage in my life.


Right, being good looking as a guy- without good social skills and social confidence- won't really get you any dates. It'll get you initial interest from girls but as soon as they see you aren't confident and aren't good at communicating they'll lose interest at the drop of a hat.

As a guy, having good social skills and social confidence and being average looking will make it much more likely for you to get dates and a girlfriend than being good looking but having neither of those things. Just the way it works.


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## jrmuniz96

Darktower776 said:


> Right, being good looking as a guy- without good social skills and social confidence- won't really get you any dates. It'll get you initial interest from girls but as soon as they see you aren't confident and aren't good at communicating they'll lose interest at the drop of a hat.
> 
> As a guy, having good social skills and social confidence and being average looking will make it much more likely for you to get dates and a girlfriend than being good looking but having neither of those things. Just the way it works.


Ya m8. It freakin sucks bc there are so many opportunities that present themselves but you can't take em bc of your crappy self esteem. When I was a kid I was subject to a ton of verbal abuse and actually believed that I was ugly. People would tell me that I was ugly, fat, a nerd, and all kinds of nasty stuff. It wasn't until I started wearing contacts that girls started to notice me- and while it lasted it was awesome dude. My social anxiety didn't really appear till I was 16ish- so between the years of 14-15 it was my golden age of sex appeal. I could make eye contact with girls for hours and that would drive them pretty nuts (in a good way). The truth is that looks don't matter. All you need is an awesome self esteem/confidence and most girls will love you. I used to flirt with girls just by making eye contact - now. . . I'm deathly afraid of making eye contact with anyone. &#128528;

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