# Did MMA already lose credibility?



## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

*Lack of Skills*

The majority of these MMA guys (I watch the PPVs, UFC more specifically) do not even possess good skills in the disciplines they are suppose to be good at. They are just mediocre. They haven't mastered their sport like professional boxers have. Boxers have to register their hands as lethal weapons in some states, that's how dangerous the sport of Pro Boxing is. MMA fighters are not the best boxers, wrestlers, kick boxers, etc... just mediocre in what they do. Anybody can learn a skill but to master it, to be the best in it, that takes something else. Brock Lesnar, former WWE champion, defeated a more experienced mixed martial artist, Randy Couture, and Lesnar does NOT even possess good skills in the disciplines, he is only good in wrestling. But as we all know, wrestling alone is not good enough to make it into Mixed Martial Arts so Brock trained in the other disciplines and is still terrible in them, but he still defeated Randy Couture with strikes (standing up and on the ground). Striking on the ground and standing up were Randy's advantages. Some say Randy lost because he was old, but a year before that he defeated Tim Sylvia who is about Brock's size. Was he too old for that?

Another fighter who used to be a former WWE champion, just like Brock, Bobby Lashley is currently undefeated in the world of mixed martial arts with 4 wins against MORE experienced Mixed Martial Artists while at the same time, Lashley works as a professional wrestler in TNA which means he doesn't even have as much time as the other fighters in MMA do to train. This next example will show the lack of skills it takes to be an MMA fighter. Affliction Vice President, Tom Atencio, defeated an MMA fighter, that is straight out of WWE. And according to Atencio, he said he was doing it just for fun. Is it that easy to be a fighter in MMA? Even former NFL players are now beating experienced MMA guys. WTH is going on here? Football and MMA are not even in the same sport category.

*The Ultimate Fighter *

There is a behavior pattern that the fighters in this show follow every season, and that is childish, immature grown men playing pranks with each other which include urine, feces, and even sperm, believe it or not (pretty disgusting if you ask me). These are the types of things that sadly increase the ratings of the show. They even use guys like Chris Leben, Junie Browning, etc... on the show to get more people to watch. These are gimmicks, just like Kimbo Slice is a gimmick, and Dana White used him as the main star in the The Ultimate Fighter Heavyweight Season. They get these MMA guys off the streets, there is nothing unique about the skills they possess. Yes, Kimbo Slice did defeat a retired former pro boxer, Ray Mercer, who is now like 50--- way past his time. MMA fans say that Kimbo Slice is one of the best strikers in MMA, but he wouldn't even last 12 rounds against a good amateur boxer. He's a bum, nothing else. In pro boxing, you have to be able to jog 10 miles, in MMA you don't even have to be in shape. You can be fat, slow, possess no striking ability, and still be able to win the Ultimate Fighter Show--- just like Roy Nelson did. All he did throughout the show was lay his fat belly on guys and throw weak punches. He's an embarrassment as a fighter period. Butterbean was fat but at least he had skills.

*The Best of the Best*

Go ahead and try to compare the best fighters in MMA and Pro Boxing, you can't cause they are not comparable. The best of the best boxers have records like Floyd Mayweather (40 wins, 0 Loses), Shane Mosley (46 wins, 5 loses), Manny Pacquiao (55 wins, 3 loses). The ones you refer as legends in MMA, like Randy Couture have records of 17 wins, 10 loses (ouch), Chuck Liddell with 21 wins, 7 loses, BJ Penn 15 wins, 5 loses. I think you get the idea. As you can see for yourself, the best pro boxers have more fights and a few are able to remain undefeated, not because their is lack of competition for these great fighters, but because they have done something, I believe, MMA fighters will never be able to accomplish and that is Master their Sport. They mastered boxing, they are the best in what they do. Just because Chuck Liddell knocked out many fighters does not mean he is a good boxer. I remember Joe Rogan during a Chuck Liddell fight on paperview say that Chuck is one of the best boxers (and not just in mma) and I laughed at this. Even Vitor Belfort's trainers have claimed that if he goes to pro boxer, he would be considered on the top 10 of the best. If this is true then why isn't he in pro boxing? He probably had a few fights but obviously wasn't good enough to make it to the top or even be considered "good." Think about it, Pro Boxing pays millions, and MMA pays thousands, if Chuck possess the skills required to make it as one of the best in boxing, I assure you that he wouldn't be in MMA. He could use the money from boxing for his family. It's not that hard to understand.

MMA is competing against Boxing, Boxing is not competing against MMA. You think it's a coincidence that during the night Manny Pacquiao was fighting Miguel Cotto, Dana White put free MMA fights on SpikeTV? We all know what his purpose was but let's just admit it, MMA would never be able to go against pro boxing's best. Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather are scheduled to fight in March of 2010. This is bad news for Dana White because he knows that there is nothing he can do about it.

BTW, there are a few guys I would say are quintessential MMA fighters, like George St. Pierre, Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida (even though he obviously lost against Shogun in his last fight), and even Fedor Emelianenko.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

The specialist vs. generalist debate. 

Many boxers like to criticize the boxing in MMA. But boxers aren't worried about elbows, knees, kicks, takedowns, sweeps, or throws. Its a totally different sweet science.

WWE is basically Catch Wrestling. Catch Wrestling has been around over a century and was the real style of American style martial arts. So with Brock paired up with Eric Paulson, his college/pro wrestling experience, and size and strenght advantage, its not ridiculous that he won some fights. 

You're right that anyone with a solid punch has a puncher's chance at winning. I think that only pertains to lower levels though. As you get up there, top level MMA fighters have all their bases covered.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

The problem with MMA in my opinion (and this is best exemplified on the ultimate fighter show) is that you have a lot of guys (and girls too) who are learning the physical side of martial arts, but nothing more. Like, for example, maturity.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

zookeeper said:


> The problem with MMA in my opinion (and this is best exemplified on the ultimate fighter show) is that you have a lot of guys (and girls too) who are learning the physical side of martial arts, but nothing more. Like, for example, maturity.


You are right. Although I don't know where they find some of these people. They are obviously picked out for the ratings they can generate on TV. I've just done some basic training, nothing special, I feel like I have more of a head for it than those guys. My guess is that they don't train for real before the show and don't have a taste for what real competition is.


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## mrbojangles (Oct 8, 2009)

lets not start a mma vs boxing thread on here, just leave that to the idiots on sherdog lol.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I never got that prank crap. If I were running the show, I would have kicked them out. That is disgusting, but unfortunately, *our society has turned into Wild Kingdom*. It's like these shows are watching laboratory rats. Some of these guys have IQs of TicTacs.

I thought only monkeys threw their poo. Next came people in prisons, and now MMA fighters - a sport which ten years ago was banned for being too violent. Ken Shamrock was a name I only heard about when associated with the once banned sport.


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> WWE is basically Catch Wrestling. Catch Wrestling has been around over a century and was the real style of American style martial arts. So with Brock paired up with Eric Paulson, his college/pro wrestling experience, and size and strenght advantage, its not ridiculous that he won some fights.


Thank you. This prompted me to make my first post, heh. Wrestling is a great base for MMA, Especially catch, cuz then your skilled in subs too. I'm not sure where the op is coming from when he says that alot of these fighters are not great at their respective style. You have wrestlers that have won NCAA, BJJ'ers that have won Abu Dhabi and world's, etc. I'll admit there are some more mediocre fighters out there, but that's probably a result of the success and popularity of the sport. With that said, I still think the majority of them are exceptional athletes. On a side note, I'm getting the priveledge of training Catch with Josh Barnett and Billy robinson (and hopefully DH smith from WWE) for two days (16 hrs) next month, can't wait!


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

ShinAkuma said:


> *Lack of Skills*
> Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather are scheduled to fight in March of 2010. This is bad news for Dana White because he knows that there is nothing he can do about it.


How is it bad news for Dana White? That guy makes bank on PPV every month (sometimes twice). I don't think he's worrying about the one boxing event of the year that can bank money. Mayweather fights make money, but they don't happen enough when compared to MMA. I feel bad cuz boxing was my first passion as a sport but it's like an aging dinasaur now. I still like it as a sport, but it's no way of determining who the better and more skillfull fighter is.


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## S.T.A.T. (Jan 17, 2009)

I think that Rorion Gracie (co-founder of the UFC) predicted that skill level being less of a factor as ppl crosstrained more and hence each time is spent any particular art. 

Fighters are blue belt level grapplers with basic boxing/kicking skills beating each other up or employing tactics to win judges' decision.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

I have a question. Why does one have to be better than the other? And who/what decides? I mean, they're two different things so why compare them? 
There are boxing purists, who will make a top 10 boxers of all time list, and it'll look nothing like your average everyday guys list, cause the every day guy isn't educated on the history. It's the same in MMA. There are those who say Couture is the best or Liddell is the best, while not even really knowing who the Gracie family is, or the Shamrock family, or others. 
MMA fighters can't be masters at each discipline. They master one, or two discipline(s), then learn the basics of the others, so they can defend it.
When boxers are blocking a punch, they only need to worry about the other hand...they don't need to worry about a kick to the face, a knee to the stomach, a leg sweep, among countless other tactics.

I believe boxing to be the more honourable and respectful sport. Two men, standing face to face, for 12 rounds, with no where and no way to hide. MMA is more...sneaky, but it is supposed to be, cause it's meant to represent a fight to the death...without the actual death. When you make a guy tap out, it basically says "If we were fighting for real, I could have either killed you or broke your arm/leg, etc.

It's basically comparing apples and oranges. Why can't we like both? I do, but right now, the MMA world has more marketable stars. Outside of Pacquio and Mayweather, who else is there to scare UFC?


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Keltos said:


> On a side note, I'm getting the priveledge of training Catch with Josh Barnett and Billy robinson (and hopefully DH smith from WWE) for two days (16 hrs) next month, can't wait!


Thats dope man.

Josh says he is a catch wrestler. Its not quite the case. He won UFC title when he was training with Matt Hume which isn't quite catch. I had the pleasure of training for a short Hume for a short time.

Billy Robinson is OG catch wrestler. I'd love to learn from him and at the same time, be scared out of my mind of him demonstrating on me. Are you doing it through Jake Shannon.

If you are in chicago, you might check out Tony Cecchine. I don't know if he is still teaching. He does know his stuff even though his method of promoting and selling are totally unethical.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

I used to be a big fan of the sport back during the early to mid ninetys when royce gracie was the legend. I remember a friend of my parents loaning us the tape. It was ufc 1 through 4. I was up all night watching the entire thing. And this was during a school night lol. It was so interesting back then when you had the different styles thing going on. Now all the styles are pretty much generalized into one homogenous (isn't that a word lol) pot. To me its lost a lot of its luster. I don't watch boxing much anymore either though. It is kind of funny though that boxing was looked down on during the dark ages of the sport when it seems that now boxing is the key to becomming elite. 
One other thing, anybody watch K1?


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

Game 7 said:


> I have a question. Why does one have to be better than the other? And who/what decides? I mean, they're two different things so why compare them?
> There are boxing purists, who will make a top 10 boxers of all time list, and it'll look nothing like your average everyday guys list, cause the every day guy isn't educated on the history. It's the same in MMA. There are those who say Couture is the best or Liddell is the best, while not even really knowing who the Gracie family is, or the Shamrock family, or others.
> MMA fighters can't be masters at each discipline. They master one, or two discipline(s), then learn the basics of the others, so they can defend it.
> When boxers are blocking a punch, they only need to worry about the other hand...they don't need to worry about a kick to the face, a knee to the stomach, a leg sweep, among countless other tactics.
> ...


Even Randy Couture said boxing and mma are VERY SIMILAR. They are both fighting sports and if you watch Andrei Arlovski vs Fedor Emelianenko, Freddie Roach was right, Andrei Arlovski was beating Fedor simply by using his superior boxing skills, Andrei lost when he used a MMA move--- looked like a flying knee, and that's when Fedor knocked him out. That's embarrassing for MMA. Freddie Roach trained Andrei for this fight and he did what he could--- boxing, these MMA moves are useless in a pro boxing match, do you ever wonder why the superman punch is not used in pro boxing? It wouldn't work, it's a useless move. And these flying kick, Bruce Lee type moves are only there for showing off. They are too predictable.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

ShinAkuma said:


> Even Randy Couture said boxing and mma are VERY SIMILAR. They are both fighting sports and if you watch Andrei Arlovski vs Fedor Emelianenko, Freddie Roach was right, Andrei Arlovski was beating Fedor simply by using his superior boxing skills, Andrei lost when he used a MMA move--- looked like a flying knee, and that's when Fedor knocked him out. That's embarrassing for MMA. Freddie Roach trained Andrei for this fight and he did what he could--- boxing, these MMA moves are useless in a pro boxing match, do you ever wonder why the superman punch is not used in pro boxing? It wouldn't work, it's a useless move. And these flying kick, Bruce Lee type moves are only there for showing off. They are too predictable.







http://vidbunker.com/gene_lebell_vs_milo_savage

First one is UFC 1 when no one knew anything and used their respective styles.

2nd one was Gene Lebell. He was fighting Milo Savage who was a top ranked boxer. Not only did milo have brass knuckles, he was also oiled up to make himself slippery.


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## freshjive (Jun 4, 2008)

I would consider MMA a disipline in its self. If you can get good enough at certain martial arts so that you can compete effectively at MMA then I would say that you've mastered MMA. You may not have mastered each individual displine but you've mastered MMA as a whole. 

Besides, just because we dont have the worlds greatest boxers we do have the worlds best wrestlers(Lindland, couture, Henderson..etc) and the worlds best submission artisits (jacare, BJ Penn, Werdum..etc). So the world does attract masters of all disiplines excepts for boxing. 

I'd take a BJJ master or a Olympic wrester over a boxer any day. 

I dont even watch the Ultimate fighter anymore. Stupid show that only attracts meat heads and douche bags.


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> Thats dope man.
> 
> Josh says he is a catch wrestler. Its not quite the case. He won UFC title when he was training with Matt Hume which isn't quite catch. I had the pleasure of training for a short Hume for a short time.


 Well, I always hear Humes name associated in catch wrestling discussion. Barnett was a wrestler in high school, then added subs later that he learned from training with Hume, Robinson and Eric Paulson. I'd definately say his overall style, is catch wrestling. Wrestling plus sub techniques is basically catch in a nut shell. I think his philosophical outlook on grappling is another factor that matters the most, and it's different from, say... BJJ for example. Barnett is more prone to go for toe-holds and achilles locks than your typical BJJ guy, and prefers to stay on top and maintain dominant position, although he has shown that he can hold his own on his back as well.


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

I thought Kimbo Slice was kind of impressive on the ultimate fighter. He was basically fighting to support his family. He had a target on his back yet got along with everyone, and he actually be-friended one of the more excentric sensitive guys on the show.

Sports are kind of a confluence of skill, athletic ability, and mindset. I played a sport, and was very skilled, but I did not have the best athletic ability. I could be beat by someone with less skill and more athletic ability. The same thing probably happens in MMA, where more athletic fighters can beat more skilled fighters. 

I wathced boxing for the first time in a long time, and it was impressive. How good of shape they were in. There ability to go twelve rounds and there skill.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Keltos said:


> Well, I always hear Humes name associated in catch wrestling discussion. Barnett was a wrestler in high school, then added subs later that he learned from training with Hume, Robinson and Eric Paulson. I'd definately say his overall style, is catch wrestling. Wrestling plus sub techniques is basically catch in a nut shell. I think his philosophical outlook on grappling is another factor that matters the most, and it's different from, say... BJJ for example. Barnett is more prone to go for toe-holds and achilles locks than your typical BJJ guy, and prefers to stay on top and maintain dominant position, although he has shown that he can hold his own on his back as well.


There is only one Hume that I know of, Matt. He helped start Pancrease with Shamrock. His dad trained with Bruce Lee or something but didn't have a whole to do with catch. Anyway thats where his stuff comes from. Although we used to utilize all kinds of BJJ stuff as well and I think there was an informal connection to shootbox in Brazil being his was a main organizer of Pride.

Paulson was a shooto guy but also did ***** and a million other things.

Billy Robinson is Billy Robinson.

I guess I say Josh isn't really Catch is if you watch him, he doesn't roll like a catch guy. He does go for Toe Holds. But watch some vids of sakuraba rolling or some of the other well trained catch Japanese guys. He just just look a little piece-mealed compared to them. Although, he gets the job done and that is all that matters.


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## Unlikely hero (Jan 20, 2009)

ShinAkuma said:


> *Lack of Skills*
> 
> The majority of these MMA guys (I watch the PPVs, UFC more specifically) do not even possess good skills in the disciplines they are suppose to be good at. They are just mediocre. They haven't mastered their sport like professional boxers have. Boxers have to register their hands as lethal weapons in some states, that's how dangerous the sport of Pro Boxing is. MMA fighters are not the best boxers, wrestlers, kick boxers, etc... just mediocre in what they do. Anybody can learn a skill but to master it, to be the best in it, that takes something else. Brock Lesnar, former WWE champion, defeated a more experienced mixed martial artist, Randy Couture, and Lesnar does NOT even possess good skills in the disciplines, he is only good in wrestling. But as we all know, wrestling alone is not good enough to make it into Mixed Martial Arts so Brock trained in the other disciplines and is still terrible in them, but he still defeated Randy Couture with strikes (standing up and on the ground). Striking on the ground and standing up were Randy's advantages. Some say Randy lost because he was old, but a year before that he defeated Tim Sylvia who is about Brock's size. Was he too old for that?
> 
> ...


MMA>Boxing period. Is manny and floyd fight even still happening? Or is manny still afraid to get caught for juicing? Boxing is plagued with alot of bs promoters and gimmicks itself. What other big names are in boxing right now besides those 2? UFC on the other hand, always gives the fights the fans WANT to see. Alot of people though Shogun won against Machida, so we all now get a rematch. And the thing you say about random guys comming in and winning i.e Brock Lesnar. Brock is a world class wrestler; he had a huge size advantage against his opponents. He played to his strengths. He went for a takedown and the just held them their. If mayweather came to mma ( like he said he might in the past.) He wouldnt stand a chance. ground game> standing any day.

Another thing you say about the legends in the sports. records being eh or so so. Look at the gloves they are wearing. Any kick or punch could end a fight. They arent wearing sockem boppers like boxers do.


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## mrbojangles (Oct 8, 2009)

here is what is say, were all grown men, lets watch what we want to watch.


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

that is not acceptable, lol.


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> There is only one Hume that I know of, Matt. He helped start Pancrease with Shamrock. His dad trained with Bruce Lee or something but didn't have a whole to do with catch. Anyway thats where his stuff comes from. Although we used to utilize all kinds of BJJ stuff as well and I think there was an informal connection to shootbox in Brazil being his was a main organizer of Pride.
> 
> Paulson was a shooto guy but also did ***** and a million other things.
> 
> ...


Sakuraba rules! and speaking of leg locks, have you ever heard of Masakazu Imanari? If not, check him out. he's got a mixed catch & JJ background and he's like a snake on peoples legs, lol.


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

ryobi said:


> I thought Kimbo Slice was kind of impressive on the ultimate fighter. He was basically fighting to support his family. He had a target on his back yet got along with everyone, and he actually be-friended one of the more excentric sensitive guys on the show.


 He seems like a real cool cat. Even after he lost I thought he kept a great attitude on the show.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Keltos said:


> Sakuraba rules! and speaking of leg locks, have you ever heard of Masakazu Imanari? If not, check him out. he's got a mixed catch & JJ background and he's like a snake on peoples legs, lol.


Sometimes I wonder if I could last 30 seconds with some pros. Imanari is somone I don't even imagine fighting.

After this fight, Jorge's tendons were totally torn from his knee and had to have cadaver tendons put in to rebuild his knee:


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I could last 30 seconds with some pros. Imanari is somone I don't even imagine fighting.
> 
> After this fight, Jorge's tendons were totally torn from his knee and had to have cadaver tendons put in to rebuild his knee:


 Yeah, that guy makes me cringe when I watch him. I'm thinking somethng scary is always around the corner, heh.


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

Ok, i'm goin' off track a bit, but check this clip from dynamite 2009. Dude breaks his arm and flicks the guy off. I was like . Starts around the 2 min. mark


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Everytime I see a hammerlock like that, where the guy won't tap, and it goes through, makes me want to vomit.


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> He won UFC title when he was training with Matt Hume which isn't quite catch.


 I thought his lineage was... Gotch-Fujiwara-Funaki-Hume? Am I wrong?


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Keltos said:


> I thought his lineage was... Gotch-Fujiwara-Funaki-Hume? Am I wrong?


He is a seattle town boy. Pretty sure Hume first, then the Japanese. But again, everyone knows everyone type of thing. I even remember seeing Josh corning him for one of his fights on a vid(pancrease I think but don't quote me).


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## Keltos (Dec 14, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> He is a seattle town boy. Pretty sure Hume first, then the Japanese. But again, everyone knows everyone type of thing. I even remember seeing Josh corning him for one of his fights on a vid(pancrease I think but don't quote me).


Sorry I wasn't clear. I was talking about Humes lineage. wasn't he trained by those guys? I'm not saying it's concrete, but various people told me Humes has a catch background. I couldn't find much on it but the lineage I posted above is what I came across.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Keltos said:


> Sorry I wasn't clear. I was talking about Humes lineage. wasn't he trained by those guys? I'm not saying it's concrete, but various people told me Humes has a catch background. I couldn't find much on it but the lineage I posted above is what I came across.


That I don't know. He is a very quiet guy. Sounds plausible.


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## MMAFIGHTER (Feb 8, 2010)

ShinAkuma said:


> *Lack of Skills*
> 
> The majority of these MMA guys (I watch the PPVs, UFC more specifically) do not even possess good skills in the disciplines they are suppose to be good at. They are just mediocre. They haven't mastered their sport like professional boxers have. Boxers have to register their hands as lethal weapons in some states, that's how dangerous the sport of Pro Boxing is. MMA fighters are not the best boxers, wrestlers, kick boxers, etc... just mediocre in what they do. Anybody can learn a skill but to master it, to be the best in it, that takes something else. Brock Lesnar, former WWE champion, defeated a more experienced mixed martial artist, Randy Couture, and Lesnar does NOT even possess good skills in the disciplines, he is only good in wrestling. But as we all know, wrestling alone is not good enough to make it into Mixed Martial Arts so Brock trained in the other disciplines and is still terrible in them, but he still defeated Randy Couture with strikes (standing up and on the ground). Striking on the ground and standing up were Randy's advantages. Some say Randy lost because he was old, but a year before that he defeated Tim Sylvia who is about Brock's size. Was he too old for that?
> 
> ...


Your comparing apples to oranges buddy. You would need to fight as an mma fighter and fight as a boxer to understand this.. This is a subject which is discussed heavily among fans but lightly and rarely among fighters outside of media hype purposes. They are just 2 different sports and there is no reason they need to clash and not just co exist.

Somethings to think about is archaeological evidence suggests boxing existed in North Africa as early as 4000 BC. Count the amount of years that is...

Now compare that to the amount of time that MMA has had to evolve as a sport. Compare the first UFC fights to the current fights and fighters now??? It is an entirely different breed. Now think about what MMA will look like in the amount of time that boxing has had to evolve??? Or even 10 years? 20? 30? 100?

Also the hands in mma may never be at where it is boxing because as an mma fighter you need to be training in so many different areas that you physically dont have time to put as much work into just your hands as boxers do. They spend all day, everyday, just on there boxing. MMA fighters not only have much more to worry about which is why you cant do most of what boxers do but need to train and prep for so much than boxers.

Another thing to think about if you are going to compare the sports.. Put any top boxer against any top MMA fighter and the boxer will be made look like you through a teenage kid into the ring with the mma fighter. He would not stand a chance, which he shouldnt and is obvious because this is not what he trains for. But the same mma fighter against the same boxer in a boxing promotion and the boxer will win but the mma fighter will last.

But again.. this is something heavily debated among fans and chances are will continue to be yet is laughed upon by fighters.


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## MMAFIGHTER (Feb 8, 2010)

Also mma is not paying what boxing is paying. Which is why like you said there are some fighters that are at the top par level like the fighters you named. 90% of the pro fighters i train with everyday and have cross trained with work full time as well as fighting professionally. What was the purse on the recent boxing fight?? 50? 60 million??


You are lucky to make 1000 / 1000 split your first pro fight. Even top guys are lucky to make a 20,000/20,000 split. 

So until the $ in mma starts being dispersed right and fighters are treated like the athletes they are you may never see the sport turn into what others have. Granted strikeforce is giving UFC a run for its money by trying to do this same concept but it will take time for anything to happen.


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## Rasputin_1 (Oct 27, 2008)

ShinAkuma said:


> BTW, there are a few guys I would say are quintessential MMA fighters, like George St. Pierre, Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida (even though he obviously lost against Shogun in his last fight), *and even Fedor Emelianenko.*


EVEN FEDOR?!?!? you know hes the greatest fight in the world right. You put him in a room with anyone in the world no rules and chances are fedor wins.


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## Unlikely hero (Jan 20, 2009)

MMAFIGHTER said:


> Also mma is not paying what boxing is paying. Which is why like you said there are some fighters that are at the top par level like the fighters you named. 90% of the pro fighters i train with everyday and have cross trained with work full time as well as fighting professionally. What was the purse on the recent boxing fight?? 50? 60 million??
> 
> You are lucky to make 1000 / 1000 split your first pro fight. Even top guys are lucky to make a 20,000/20,000 split.
> 
> So until the $ in mma starts being dispersed right and fighters are treated like the athletes they are you may never see the sport turn into what others have. Granted strikeforce is giving UFC a run for its money by trying to do this same concept but it will take time for anything to happen.


Top fighters make more than that. I think on rashad evans last fight he made like 325k. Also, i remember watching a true life when kit cope said he made 9k a month on just endorsements. I agree it's nothing compared to boxing yet, but top fighters do make a decent living.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

We're also not counting sponsorships. 

But yeah its a tough route starting off. I think it more than just being a good fighter. You also have to have a good agent.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

MMAFIGHTER said:


> Your comparing apples to oranges buddy. You would need to fight as an mma fighter and fight as a boxer to understand this.. This is a subject which is discussed heavily among fans but lightly and rarely among fighters outside of media hype purposes. They are just 2 different sports and there is no reason they need to clash and not just co exist.
> 
> Somethings to think about is archaeological evidence suggests boxing existed in North Africa as early as 4000 BC. Count the amount of years that is...
> 
> ...


So you think MMA hasnt been around since the dawn of time also? You have to really be fooling yourself if you believe that. Where did Greco Roman get its name from? I would guess that the hand to hand fighters many mellinnium ago were much much better than they are now considering they had to do it to stay alive. As for boxing versus mma, yeah that's been done to death. Same as K1 really versus mma really. But to be the best apparently you have to have the best boxing skills ie: Fedor, Arlovski, Silva. You could make the claim that mma boxing is slightly different than pure boxing though.


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## MMAFIGHTER (Feb 8, 2010)

Unlikely hero said:


> Top fighters make more than that. I think on rashad evans last fight he made like 325k. Also, i remember watching a true life when kit cope said he made 9k a month on just endorsements. I agree it's nothing compared to boxing yet, but top fighters do make a decent living.


Look bud... as far as kit goes dont believe everything you here. I know him personally. There may have been certain months out of his entire career as a fighter that maybe he did make 9k (before I knew him) but it is very short lived. Another good friend of mine willy syrapai (look him up) who is 5 time muay thai world champion. Has faught kit on numerous occasions, and again.. there were certain times in his career (long time ago) where maybe he did make that from endorsements. However this is very short lived.

Now about rashad evans. I dont know him personally , but Im sure he did most likely make that on a previous fight. But your naming one of the very few super star 'icons' of the sport. You gather up every fighter who is making even half that amount of money... ok no lets make this better 1/4th of what rashad made from that fight... it is going to be less than 5% of the fighter population (fact). There are going to be a small select few people that make money in ANY industry regardless of it being sport or not. Im sure you can find a bum on the street who collects a few grand a month from hand outs, doesnt mean its a high paying industry (if you could even call it that)

If anybody is going to sit here and argue that MMA fighters are payed well or even enough to get by and call what they do a good living is clearly in the dark or just another 'fan' and believes the hollywood glamorized bull **** you see on tv.

I train with over 65 pro fighters and 25 world champions 5 hours a day, 6 days a week, Many of them being very close friends of mine. If there was money in this sport believe me I would have seen it by now. You'll be more likely to make a good living working at mcdonalds then you would as an pro fighter.

If anybody else would like to continue this i have 1000 more statistics and references to prove what I am saying is sadly true... fans are blinded by the UFC glitz and glamour.

Here is a new documentary coming out with some past training partners from before i transferred gyms. This is the true side of MMA.


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## MMAFIGHTER (Feb 8, 2010)

stylicho said:


> So you think MMA hasnt been around since the dawn of time also? You have to really be fooling yourself if you believe that. Where did Greco Roman get its name from? I would guess that the hand to hand fighters many mellinnium ago were much much better than they are now considering they had to do it to stay alive. As for boxing versus mma, yeah that's been done to death. Same as K1 really versus mma really. But to be the best apparently you have to have the best boxing skills ie: Fedor, Arlovski, Silva. You could make the claim that mma boxing is slightly different than pure boxing though.


You gotta be kidding me...not even going to waste my breath on this one.

You clearly only know what you see through the TV screen. Step into the cage for 1 minute and you are going to have an entirely different outlook on every single world you just wrote on this post.


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## ironheart (Aug 14, 2009)

I'm a boxing person myself but here in the UK there is almost no coverage of the sport unless you're a Sky customer and even then, if you want to see the biggest events you'll have to shell out more still because most of them are restricted to pay-per-view. 

MMA may be running into a few teething problems at present but it is much, much more accessable and as long as this remains the case, it'll stay on course to usurp boxing as the most popular combat sport.


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## fredbloggs02 (Dec 14, 2009)

It has history. I read somewhere it goes back to my ancestors, the ancient Greeks and the Pankatron. I just don't ever see it EVER becoming an olympic sport, it's too violent. To raise fighters pay would be escalating it's legitimacy as a sport. You can't play boxing and you don't get broken legs and arms in boxing.


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## MMAFIGHTER (Feb 8, 2010)

fredbloggs02 said:


> It has history. I read somewhere it goes back to my ancestors, the ancient Greeks and the Pankatron. I just don't ever see it EVER becoming an olympic sport, it's too violent. To raise fighters pay would be escalating it's legitimacy as a sport. You can't play boxing and you don't get broken legs and arms in boxing.


Lemme ask you something buddy, you wanna talk about violence in regards to injury.

What is the average death count per year for professional boxers?
What is the average death count per year for professional mma fighters?

I dont know what you mean by 'you cant play boxing'. However you wanna talk about broken legs & arms, lets talk football injuries, baseball injuries, basketball injuries, soccer injuries, sprinting injuries, snowboarding injuries, racing injuries, I can go on... You are going to tell me a sport is not legitimate due to the chance you may get hurt? Why dont we just ban sport entirely then. Being an athlete is a privilege and while accepting that privilege you accept the risks behind it. Nobody is forcing us to get into the cage / ring. Nobody is forcing football players to step on the field, racers to step into their car.

MMA is statistically one of the safer sports out there. It is absolutely hands down safer than boxing in terms of long term life threatening injury. (FACT)

Im not bashing boxing in anyway. I love the sport and i will be getting my license to box pro later this year. However anybody who is going to claim that MMA is more dangerous than boxing is completely in the dark.

Again... You are a fan and are going of what you see through your tv screen. At least take the time to look up some statistics on what your speaking on because its extremely off.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

MMAFIGHTER said:


> You gotta be kidding me...not even going to waste my breath on this one.
> 
> You clearly only know what you see through the TV screen. Step into the cage for 1 minute and you are going to have an entirely different outlook on every single world you just wrote on this post.


Dont waste your breath. You already appear to know everything anyways, buddy.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

Fedor is not human


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## Unlikely hero (Jan 20, 2009)

MMAFIGHTER said:


> Look bud... as far as kit goes dont believe everything you here. I know him personally. There may have been certain months out of his entire career as a fighter that maybe he did make 9k (before I knew him) but it is very short lived. Another good friend of mine willy syrapai (look him up) who is 5 time muay thai world champion. Has faught kit on numerous occasions, and again.. there were certain times in his career (long time ago) where maybe he did make that from endorsements. However this is very short lived.
> 
> Now about rashad evans. I dont know him personally , but Im sure he did most likely make that on a previous fight. But your naming one of the very few super star 'icons' of the sport. You gather up every fighter who is making even half that amount of money... ok no lets make this better 1/4th of what rashad made from that fight... it is going to be less than 5% of the fighter population (fact). There are going to be a small select few people that make money in ANY industry regardless of it being sport or not. Im sure you can find a bum on the street who collects a few grand a month from hand outs, doesnt mean its a high paying industry (if you could even call it that)
> 
> ...


I did say "top fighters". i was refering to the superstars in the sport. anderson silva, gps, evans .


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Occasionally I'll see a UFC fighter who I think has impressive brazilian jujitsu skills (not sure of the names coz I'm not THAT into it), but when the UFC fighters are on their feet I usually get a bit bored with it.


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## Unlikely hero (Jan 20, 2009)

i just looked at the sponsors for the next ufc pay per view, its quite sad. I cant take it seriously. One of the sponsors actually makes shirt that says "jesus didnt tap". just wow


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I don't mean to offend TC, but this seems like recycled pro-boxing slant that I've heard a thousand times over on other forums. Of course you're going to have cleaner more polished striking because of the ruleset and lack of variables in boxing, MMA guys simply have to be aware of more stuff in regards to tech and defense. Roach even mentions this in interviews. Plenty of MMA fighters have good grappling credentials and are quite skilled.


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