# Phenibut and SSRIs



## hendrik (Jul 13, 2012)

Hey,
is there anyone here who knows the effect from phenibut and from ssris.
I know the effect and feeling of phenibut and want to know of the effect of the ssris is comparable.
Can you describe me how you perceive the effect of the two substances?

hendrik


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

the two are not comparable at all. Phenibut is one singular drug; you said you know how it effects you but would like to here how it affects others. Here is a link to the phenibut post in the supplements experience forum.: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f56/phenibut-84136/

There you can read the experience(s) of hundreds of users, As well as reviews of every single SSRI.

For me Phenibut is like a very long-lasting valium that takes more than 2 hrs until onset occurs, At above therapeutic doses it brings on nausea and dizziness at higher doses. In the past I spent several years using it daily. It is a good anxiolytix. It also seems to have an additive effect when combined with Alcohol; benzos do not have this effect for me.

Just about every SSRI affects different people differently.. I have tried every SSRI and they all either do noting besides shrink genitals oe they severe exacerbate the various symptoms of anxiety.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

If this stuff works against anxiety why isn't it available as prescription drug or at least recommended by doctors? :blank


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

thundercats said:


> If this stuff works against anxiety why isn't it available as prescription drug or at least recommended by doctors? :blank


Phenibut?
It is not FDA approved, nor is it a DEA controlled substance. Because it isn't a drug, doctor's can not prescribe it and it cannot ne a pharmaceutical. (this applies the U.S. and many other countries). However in some countries, mostly what used to be the U.S.S.R. There it is a controlled substance and must be prescribed. From the information that I have gleaned over the years it sounds like baclofen is a superior drug. Baclofen is and can be prescribed under DEA guidelines. Also I have never met any medical professional in this country who has ever heard of Phenibut. Just be glad that you can easily and cheaply procure an effective and legal anxiolytic.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

The disadvantage with those supplements is that they haven't been tested for side effects and drug interactions. For example you can buy 5-HTP as supplement everywhere but you won't know if it can be combined with prescription drugs cause supplement manufacturers don't give you this information and especially when you're using rather unknown supplements it's totally uncertain if you can take this with other drugs or not and if the supplement is safe etc.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

SSRI's are garbage, don't even bother.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

thundercats said:


> The disadvantage with those supplements is that they haven't been tested for side effects and drug interactions. For example you can buy 5-HTP as supplement everywhere but you won't know if it can be combined with prescription drugs cause supplement manufacturers don't give you this information and especially when you're using rather unknown supplements it's totally uncertain if you can take this with other drugs or not and if the supplement is safe etc.


This is true but if you have a brain and an internet connection it's not very difficult to figure drug/supplement interactions out. 5-htp is actually listed on drugs.com and you CAN check for it for interactions. Also Wikipedia has a page for every substance imaginable . In most cases drug interactions are discussed there. Finally learning a bit about pharmacology; and Anatomy and Physiology is priceless. You make an important point though. Mixing together many drugs which you know nothing about is a good way to spend some time in the hospital.



ThatOneQuietGuy said:


> SSRI's are garbage, don't even bother.


You say this every time SSRI's are even mentioned in passing. I feel the same way but I keep my mouth shut because they do benefit some people.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

istayhome said:


> Phenibut?
> However in some countries, mostly what used to be the U.S.S.R. There it is a controlled substance and must be prescribed.


It's banned in Canada. 

U.S. is more lax when it comes to the whole supplement industry. Come to think of it, U.S. seems to be the only place it's legal. Here's the health canada database info:



> NHPID Name:
> Phenibut
> 
> Proper Name(s):
> ...


Schedule 1 here.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

istayhome said:


> Finally learning a bit about pharmacology; and Anatomy and Physiology is priceless. You make an important point though. Mixing together many drugs which you know nothing about is a good way to spend some time in the hospital.


I don't think you can simply learn a few things and then deduce everything based on pure theory. Otherwise they wouldn't have to test new drugs on people in order to see if there are interactions.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

thundercats said:


> I don't think you can simply learn a few things and then deduce everything based on pure theory. Otherwise they wouldn't have to test new drugs on people in order to see if there are interactions.


I most definitely was not suggesting that a person take an A&P 101 class then read some basics about any given drug and assume that they know everything there is to know about said drug and how it will interact with all drugs based on "pure theory."

However it is important to realize that you have a great potential to learn and understand neurophysiology and pharmacology.

Look at Kehcorpz for example, he likely is more knowledgeable about all things SA, Neurology, Physiology, pharmacology, etc. related than anyone else on the boards and my understanding id that he learned it by reading... a lot.

This has long been my strategy. I trust my own understanding far more than I trust what someone else tells me or is on a drug pamphlet.

Not every single drug interaction possible is extensively tested, epecially every drug/supplement combo because supplements aren't FDA approved as drugs so it is up to the individual to be responsible for what they ingest and what the possible effects may be.

Infact according to the drug interaction checker I tale several drugs which should be fatal when taken together but there is no interaction whatsoever. I know the relative safety of any given drug/combination before I ever try it because I have educated myself about every substance(s) before I ingest it. I also have educated myself about how the body works for years so I can understand what my body does to drugs once trey are ingested.

Use whatever tools are available to you when medicating. Sometimes the best tool available is yourself so make sure your mind in the best shape it can e for when you have to use it. It is always best to be able to trust yourself rather than give up all trust to someone else: especially when it comes to your body.

"He who sacrifices freedom for security loses both and deserves neither." Ben Franklin.

"Live Free or Die." New Hampshire state motto.


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## thundercats (Mar 12, 2012)

I would also try to see if there are any interactions, of course. There are sites where you can enter every substance or brand name of a drug and then see if there are interactions. This stuff is crazy. I always ask myself how this works and how they determine wether there are interactions or not. 
But this stuff is over my head. I am not a doctor and don't study medicine and I also don't know more about chemistry than someone in the 5th grade. For me it wouldn't make sense to try to get too deep because there are limitations and then it would only depress me and make me feel stupid. I'm also not good at teaching myself things cause I'm someone who always has hundreds of questions no matter what it's about. Simply teaching myself something from books with nobody to ask usually doesn't work.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

thundercats said:


> I would also try to see if there are any interactions, of course. There are sites where you can enter every substance or brand name of a drug and then see if there are interactions. This stuff is crazy. I always ask myself how this works and how they determine wether there are interactions or not.
> But this stuff is over my head. I am not a doctor and don't study medicine and I also don't know more about chemistry than someone in the 5th grade. For me it wouldn't make sense to try to get too deep because there are limitations and then it would only depress me and make me feel stupid. I'm also not good at teaching myself things cause I'm someone who always has hundreds of questions no matter what it's about. Simply teaching myself something from books with nobody to ask usually doesn't work.


The drug interaction checkers suck, very bad. They say that EVERYTHING has serious reactions with drugs that in real life have absolutely no interactions with each-other. The way they sort of determine interactions is just by seeing if the drugs in question both have similar "bad" side effects that might be additive or if they have any obviously dangerous interactions that are dangerous. The drug checkers are way too conservative in how dangerous they think the varying drugs are together. If I followed the drug interaction checker at drugs.com I would not be able to use any medications. All of the realistic info can be found in the drug pamphlet and any other additional info you don't know your pharmacist will understand. Believe in yourself!

And don't stop believing, even in a lonely world!


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## hendrik (Jul 13, 2012)

Can you take the phenibut together with your normal stimulant dose. Or will the phenibut be synergistically with it and deplete all your dopamine? It seems when I take phenibut without a stimulant I get too tired, but I'm very worried about interactions....


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

hendrik said:


> Can you take the phenibut together with your normal stimulant dose. Or will the phenibut be synergistically with it and deplete all your dopamine? It seems when I take phenibut without a stimulant I get too tired, but I'm very worried about interactions....


Why does that worry you? Phenibut is a CNS depressant, it makes your tired. Take less if you want to avoid the worrying about passing ot.

You ask, "Or will the phenibut be synergistically with it and deplete all your dopamine?"
Phenibut doesn't affect dopamine, it effects GABA-b; there is no possibility of any additive or synergistic reaction.


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## General Specific (Mar 4, 2008)

ThatOneQuietGuy said:


> SSRI's are garbage, don't even bother.


This. People have just got to know.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Aces_Shy said:


> This. People have just got to know.


I've tried every SSRI available and they've all been miserable for me. Personally I hate them. Some people find them very beneficial. It is beyond inappropriate to suggest that everyone will react to psych meds the same way you do. It also makes you look like a supreme fool to state such unknowns as if they are gospel truth.


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## hendrik (Jul 13, 2012)

I have the impression that the anxiolytic effect of phenibut is with higher doses better. But at higher doses you get a sedating effect extra.... I read that phenibut acts on several receptors.

From http://www.naturalresultz.com/assets/images/pdf_files/Phenibut-indepth.pdf



> Because phenibut is a nonselective GABA-A and GABA-B
> receptor agonist it influences activity throughout GABA-A and GABA-B subtypes, including the six GABA-A alpha subtypes (units), which
> have a range of actions. For example, stimulation of GABA-A alpha
> subtype-1 produces a sedative effect. Stimulation of GABA-A alpha
> ...


Some receptors are for anxiolytic effect, some for sedating/hypnotic, some for the nootropic effect,... So if I want a certain strength of phenibut, I need to use the appropriate dose. If I do this I get to much sedating effect and I will take some amphetamine. Cognition improves more and I get alerted. If I take too much, I evoke a stress reaction and emotions get supressed.

But what happens then???? Will the two substances interact???

Here some extracts from "Phenibut (â-Phenyl-GABA):
A Tranquilizer and Nootropic Drug - Izyaslav Lapin" 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1527-3458.2001.tb00211.x/pdf


> Pharmacological properties of PB,
> including its effects on GABAA, GABAB, dopaminergic, and benzodiazepine (BDZ) re-ceptors, were compared with those of diazepam (DZP) and piracetam (PIR) (38)
> 
> Activation of dopamine metabolism.In striatum of rats, PB, at 50 to 100 mgkg i.p.,
> ...


complicated stuff


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## beachmick (Feb 12, 2006)

istayhome said:


> and any other additional info you don't know your pharmacist will understand.


Not true.

A majority of doctors and pharmacists are clueless when it comes to non-prescription natural supplements, even the most "well-known" supplements. They are only trained for, and have their only interests in, promoting prescription drugs.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

I have nothing but praise for phenibut. I have never taken anything that makes me so euphoric, relaxed, talkative and outgoing. And I take reasonably low doses - just ONE gram each day, which is 4-5 tablets. (I also take 600mg lithium, 225mg venlafaxine and 5mg olanzapine.) I have also experienced _no_ withdrawal or side-effects when, as per guidelines, I have taken two-day breaks after 3-5 days taking it. Genius!


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## GoForIt (Mar 20, 2013)

istayhome said:


> Why does that worry you? Phenibut is a CNS depressant, it makes your tired. Take less if you want to avoid the worrying about passing ot.
> 
> You ask, "Or will the phenibut be synergistically with it and deplete all your dopamine?"
> Phenibut doesn't affect dopamine, it effects GABA-b; there is no possibility of any additive or synergistic reaction.


Dose response curve. In my personal experience, low doses from 250-500 won't go against the amphetamine. In fact, low doses, at least for me tend to be activating. At a certain range of about 1 gram of phenibut, i will be anxiety free and energized in a drunken way. At that point there's no point in taking any adderall as it seems to get mostly canceled out.

Phenibut is a GABA-B agonist primarily but it may occupy more GABA-A and/or somehow becomes anti-dopaminergic at a certain dose. At the very least it's going to decrease adrenergic or noradrenergic feelings. It seems to have some mild psychedelic properties involving serotonin due to the enhancement of color and empathy feelings. Although I don't personally know of anyone that got serotonin syndrome from combining it with an ssri, I know that combination can make someone go manic.

Careful how much you take. If you take too much it will be dysphoric but your anxiety will go away as you will only be able to focus on keeping hydrating and puking and waiting for the standard 8-12 hours to go by. That will get your mind off things


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## jkpoker10 (May 13, 2013)

I wanted to try phenibut but I've heard you build a tolerance to it quickly and the withdrawal is terrible. It doesn't sound like a good tool for improving SA imo.


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