# Attracted to women out of your league = hopeless.



## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

This is why I will never approach women. I see myself in photos/video and it's clear to me where I stand looks wise. Right at the bottom of the barrel as far as I can see. Now I'm not a hypocrite (it's hard to blame attractive women for rarely even acknowledging an ugly f******g monkey like me). Okay, so there have been maybe a handful of times where, by some miracle, it has happened... but in all those cases, the girl of course lost interest sooner or later. More than likely finding a superior male. In fact I can confirm in most of these cases, the girls went back to their exes or found someone else lol. Gut wrenching. Just imagine Oliver Twist being offered a roast chicken dinner, only for it to be thrown in the bin right before he can take a bite. Repeat that a few times, would he go insane?
Anyway, this is why I'm alone and miserable. I mean there's no point in me trying at all, unless the right woman indicates interest first (she needs to be someone I find attractive which, again, tends to mean they're out of my league). Ok yeah, if I'm lucky, it might happen again but going by my odds from past experience, it'll crash and burn again. How is a man like me supposed to live like this? I'd give anything to be attractive enough to approach women who take my interest. It's excruciating. Torture.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Every man on this planet is attracted to women out of his league. 

Except the extremely handsome ones (in theory, they are in the same league as them).


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## O Range (Feb 11, 2013)

What if every woman is out of your league?


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

TPower said:


> Every man on this planet is attracted to women out of his league.
> 
> Except the extremely handsome ones (in theory, they are in the same league as them).


True. However, how many of those men downright refuse to settle for anything other than someone who they feel a very high level of physical attraction to? Most men end up settling. I simply can't do that, personally.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

O Range said:


> What if every woman is out of your league?


Then you're lacking self-esteem (because it's not possible).


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Looks aren't the only thing that matter.
Would you actually be willing to get to know a girl before you decide if you want her or not? I mean, there have been plenty of situations where I've given guys I didn't initially find attractive a chance, and once I got to know them, I became attracted to them. 
This goes both ways, btw. A girl might only see you as a 5 at first, but other things can make you attractive to her, like sharing similar interests with her or your sense of humor, etc.


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## O Range (Feb 11, 2013)

TPower said:


> Then you're lacking self-esteem (because it's not possible).


Quite possible, actually.


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

You want to play in a higher league? then make the necessary changes in your life to do so.


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

I only date with Orlando bloom and not even him if he is not blonde









btw I am about 0,5/10 myself...

*It is your choice to live without love if you only wait and wait of your top 10 model.*


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## Amphoteric (Sep 11, 2011)

In this thread: men don't want to date ugly women, women don't want to date ugly men.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

O Range said:


> Quite possible, actually.


How so?

Even if you were an ugly POS, there are still ugly women for you.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

So you're saying you actually had chances with some girls, and then you blew it? That means you are good-looking enough to get opportunities, but you just don't capitalize on them. Work on that part. With nothing else to go on, I would surmise that your inferiority complex about your worth as a lady-slaying man, especially your worth compared to other guys, is what scared them off.


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## O Range (Feb 11, 2013)

TPower said:


> How so?
> 
> Even if you were an ugly POS, there are still ugly women for you.


Being an ugly POS with no hobbies, friends, etc., a horrible personality and all that jazz.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

mezzoforte said:


> Looks aren't the only thing that matter.
> Would you actually be willing to get to know a girl before you decide if you want her or not?


I wish I could, honestly, but I can't. It's a bonus if she's into the same music as me, but that comes second.. As a matter of fact, someone introduced me to a girl on the weekend who's also a musician, like myself, and into the same type of music. I know this because she was watching me play that night. She was not unattractive, I even got her number, but I realised a short time later that I just didn't really find her attractive. 
I have this picture in my head of the kind of girl I want, which I can't break from unfortunately. I met her last year in very similar circumstances. I had a rare opportunity smack me in the face, did nothing of course, she went back to her ex. I would guess she realised that her ex was more attractive than I. Still killing me now.
And yes, for attractive women, that tends to be what matters most.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

rymo said:


> So you're saying you actually had chances with some girls, and then you blew it? That means you are good-looking enough to get opportunities, but you just don't capitalize on them. Work on that part. With nothing else to go on, I would surmise that your inferiority complex about your worth as a lady-slaying man, especially your worth compared to other guys, is what scared them off.


Yes, basically. See above.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Sounds like you have some unattainable ideal in your mind and intentionally shrugging off real opportunity. Perhaps in some way you don't really want to a relationship and are using this as a reason not to have one. You aren't perfect looking. Why do expect others to be?


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

WineKitty said:


> Sounds like you have some unattainable ideal in your mind and intentionally shrugging off real opportunity. Perhaps in some way you don't really want to a relationship and are using this as a reason not to have one. You aren't perfect looking. Why do expect others to be?


No I don't necessarily want someone who's perfect. I have no desire for a model, like someone mentioned.... Just someone who I'm physically attracted to, which yes, in my case unfortunately does mean that these are girls who would be considered quite attractive.


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## TJenkins602 (Jul 18, 2012)

The thing is I do not know what is out of my league and what is in my league. My experience seems to show that women "in my league" vary in looks.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm not attracted to guys in my league either.


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

I know above average females with some ugly-average looking dudes (at least in my book) so it's possible and not hopeless. Thing is, they have stuff like 'charisma' or social status to make up for their physical shortcomings.


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## IdontMind (Dec 31, 2011)

TPower said:


> Then you're lacking self-esteem (because it's not possible).


This. ^

Once you gain it things will become easier. Stop thinking about it and think of women as the next person. If you're a 5, confidence can bring a man up to like 7-8. It's incredible. Haven't you heard, funny is the new sexy.

However.


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

you're just trying to find a gf based on how good a sex partner she would be - not really a recipe for a great relationship.

i don't think you should complain - its your own fault you don't have anyone. stop rationalising that this girl thought her ex was more attractive. her ex was more available, thats all.


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## lostfromreality731 (Jan 3, 2013)

I dont think its looks, girls seem to go for the cocky, confident and arrogant people. Even if I looked like Patrick Swayze (god rest his soul) I wouldnt be able to find anyone willing to give me a shot


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

warwick2155 said:


> I dont think its looks, girls seem to go for the cocky, confident and arrogant people. Even if I looked like Patrick Swayze (god rest his soul) I wouldnt be able to find anyone willing to give me a shot


You have much to learn. TPower will teach you that women actually aren't attracted to confidence. It's all about a man's social status.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

mezzoforte said:


> You have much to learn. TPower will teach you that women actually aren't attracted to confidence. It's all about a man's social status.


Looks is very important if one fails to obtain status.


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## edhoo (Feb 15, 2011)

The first step is to stop believing in leagues.


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## Lil Sebastian (Feb 26, 2012)

Sounds like your self fulfulling prophecy of defeat is more of a factor than looks. Most relationships fail. Even for handsome people. If you're going in with the mindset she's just going to leave you and you're not good enough, then eventually your actions and body language as a result of that mindset will just push her away and make her think you're not good enough. And even if you do everything right, that's no guarantee of success. Same as you're not attracted to certain girls through no fault of their own, these girls might give you a chance and just find that elusive spark missing. No one's at fault. It happens.


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## pati (Aug 15, 2012)

edhoo said:


> The first step is to stop believing in leagues.


Cheers to that.

I wish everyone in the world looked the same.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

andy1984 said:


> her ex was more available, thats all.


More available? No he wasn't. He's an *******, who treats her like crap, according to my bandmate who's her next door neighbour. Someone like me get's a chance with a girl like that once in a lifetime. It was perfect. She was perfect. She initiated, made moves up to a certain point and I sat back like a f***** idiot, having not learnt from past mistakes and thought to myself ''ah there's no rush, take your time'', until it was too late. I mustn't have been good enough for her. It would have been my ticket to happiness so that I could get on with my life. **** I'm literally approaching tears right now. Pathetic.


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## Isabelle50 (Nov 19, 2012)

Mr Blues said:


> No I don't necessarily want someone who's perfect. I have no desire for a model, like someone mentioned.... Just someone who I'm physically attracted to, which yes, in my case unfortunately does mean that these are girls who would be considered quite attractive.


Do you see how inconsistent that is though? You say you don't want a model but you are only physically attracted to really beautiful girls.

You know that no girl will keep her beauty forever right? What happens when you both age or you see someone more attractive?

Physical attraction is important but I think you are setting yourself up for failure by having a bar that high.


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## Mongoose (Oct 26, 2012)

You said you have known girls who liked you back. It sounds like all you have to do is work on your social skills. I've never known anyone who liked me back, and if I haven't by now, I assume I never will.


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## 9mm (Feb 12, 2013)

It's all about 'social status.' Girls have an instinctual aversion to men they perceive of having low social status; that's just their nature I'm afraid. They do this on an unconscious level, so most of them don't realize it, much less admit to it.


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## gomenne (Oct 3, 2009)

9mm said:


> It's all about 'social status.' Girls have an instinctual aversion to men they perceive of having low social status; that's just their nature I'm afraid. They do this on an unconscious level, so most of them don't realize it, much less admit to it.


But what's the problem here if we go by your theory ?
Men are only attracted to gorgeous females, and females are only attracted so a male's high social status. It's fair.


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## 9mm (Feb 12, 2013)

gomenne said:


> But what's the problem here if we go by your theory ?
> Men are only attracted to gorgeous females, and females are only attracted so a male's high social status. It's fair.


That's not an unfair statement. The problem is that male shallowness is well known and openly talked about. You often hear men express remorse for their shallowness and the women it adversely affects. 
But we're lead to believe that women are supposed to be more complex. They pride themselves on being the least shallow of the sexes for valuing such things as "confidence" and "personality", when in reality they just suck up to the "cool" popular guy with the most friends.


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## gomenne (Oct 3, 2009)

9mm said:


> That's not an unfair statement. The problem is that male shallowness is well known and openly talked about. You often hear men express remorse for their shallowness and the women it adversely affects.
> But we're lead to believe that women are supposed to be more complex. They pride themselves on being the least shallow of the sexes for valuing such things as "confidence" and "personality", when in reality they just suck up to the "cool" popular guy with the most friends.


If society dictates that women should take the less shallow role, it does not make it true :|


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

Mr Blues said:


> This is why I will never approach women. I see myself in photos/video and it's clear to me where I stand looks wise. Right at the bottom of the barrel as far as I can see.


 If that is you in the avatar (which I'm assuming it is) you are not a bad looking guy. You look a lot better than I did at your age. And if you think you're at the bottom of the barrel, I must be under the barrel.

Of course you're not the best looking man alive but who gets that lucky? I have seen guys who look enough like you to be your twin with good looking women.


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## creasy (Oct 29, 2012)

You're a pretty attractive guy imo. It's anxiety and negative thought patterns holding you back, not your looks.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Mr Blues said:


> Okay, so there have been maybe a handful of times where, by some miracle, it has happened... but in all those cases, the girl of course lost interest sooner or later.


Try improving your personality.


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## To22 (Apr 6, 2012)

rymo made a great point

Directed @ OP
I think you have the whole "leagues" idea misunderstood. Really, even if the leagues existed (which they probably do lol) they could only indicate chance. By that I mean you can't rule out the possibility that plenty of "out of your league" women would be attracted to you for one reason or another. It ain't all about looks and even then it isn't leagues people are attracted to physically. 

Personally, I don't think any look is out of my league...I mean, she has a pretty face, so what? That's such a little thing, she didn't earn that face lol and so she isn't "too good" for me. I do however feel like women with something going are out of my league, being a man I feel I should have something going too, but that still isn't to say that I believe a successful woman wouldn't be attracted. Attraction is complicated sometimes.

You got some lookers before, and so you probably aren't an ugly monkey lol. That's sort of proof really. 

Oh and also, people have strange and sometimes unexplainable attractions..you could be that attraction to a great looking female. That unexplainable attraction is what I believe to be the reason couples can have healthy relationships despite being out of each other's league.

I don't think you should lose hope, but maybe form healthy expectations. Maybe the females you like are out of your league, but that doesn't mean ALL good looking females automatically wont appreciate you. I think you should keep your head up.


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## Rainbat (Jan 5, 2012)

If you're not attracted to certain girls then you can understand why certain girls wouldn't be attracted to you.

Do things that improve your appearance and your self-esteem. Get in shape, eat better, dress nicer, have better hygiene, stuff like that.

If you want to be with someone who makes an effort to look good, you have to make an effort to look good.


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## Chloe321 (Mar 25, 2013)

You have been with girls who you find attractive before and yeah they haven't worked out but you've done it before so you can do it again. You can't be with someone if there is zero attraction though cos it's not gonna work out no matter how lovely they are. Get to know people first


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## andoru (Mar 9, 2013)

I sometimes due to low self-esteem and not much experience have dated guys that were "in my league" (or at least I perceived them as such).
Though I would think women generally like to be persuaded, you might think they aren't interested in you but maybe they're playing hard-to-get. Some might be *******s and laugh it off, and if that happens, well it's clear they don't have much of a good personality.

I also found out that most of my dates I haven't found them to be out of the ordinary attractive, but as soon as I got to know them better and I felt more comfortable around them I started seeing them differently, as in more attractive to me.


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## talcina (Nov 25, 2009)

Mr Blues said:


> More available? No he wasn't. He's an *******, who treats her like crap, according to my bandmate who's her next door neighbour. Someone like me get's a chance with a girl like that once in a lifetime. It was perfect. She was perfect. She initiated, made moves up to a certain point and I sat back like a f***** idiot, having not learnt from past mistakes and thought to myself ''ah there's no rush, take your time'', until it was too late. I mustn't have been good enough for her. It would have been my ticket to happiness so that I could get on with my life. **** I'm literally approaching tears right now. Pathetic.


So what you're saying is you ignored the only girl who ever talked to you that you felt actually attracted to and you're blaming HER?
It really sounds like your fault and not because you're ugly or whatever. 
The whole 'playing it cool' thing is a game, hence the 'playing' and you lost. Maybe you won't play games with someone you really want next time.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

talcina said:


> So what you're saying is you ignored the only girl who ever talked to you that you felt actually attracted to and you're blaming HER?
> It really sounds like your fault and not because you're ugly or whatever.
> The whole 'playing it cool' thing is a game, hence the 'playing' and you lost. Maybe you won't play games with someone you really want next time.


Maybe I should have been more clear. I wasn't playing a 'game'. I was crippled with anxiety.. And I'm not blaming her, I'm blaming myself for not being good enough.


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

Blues man just keep focusing on your "MUSIC" dude, you are pretty good, focus on that.


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## StevenGlansberg (Apr 1, 2009)

Relevant:






-----------------------------------

Step 1: Radiate positivity.
Step 2: Put yourself out there.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

I feel your pain...


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

rymo said:


> So you're saying you actually had chances with some girls, and then you blew it? That means you are good-looking enough to get opportunities, but you just don't capitalize on them.


or his personality managed to draw them in.



WineKitty said:


> Sounds like you have some unattainable ideal in your mind and intentionally shrugging off real opportunity.


not necessarily .like he says, he managed to gain their interest before. in this instance its simply a case of him working on himself so he can get and maintain the interest of the woman he wants.



Freiheit said:


> I know above average females with some ugly-average looking dudes (at least in my book) so it's possible and not hopeless. Thing is, they have stuff like 'charisma' or social status to make up for their physical shortcomings.


yes. this is what I have observed on the way it works, for most cases there is always something to balance it out.

mr blues, try to work at your confidence. it seems you posses a nice personality but you are letting yourself down with your lack of confidence ,like some people have said. I hope you can work at your anxiety issues which are preventing you from taking advantage of the opportunities with the opposite sex.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

galaxy1 said:


> or his personality managed to draw them in.


Well...obviously that's part of it. What I meant was that he's not TOO ugly to attract a girl's attention, as he claims.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

rymo said:


> Well...obviously that's part of it. What I meant was that he's not TOO ugly to attract a girl's attention, as he claims.


I don't believe its as black and white as a person is too ugly to attract someone out of their league looks wise. if someone can make up for what they lack in looks with their personality then there are people out there that will still find them attractive as a person. maybe the people they attract won't have a stunning personality themselves, but that's to be expected.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

galaxy1 said:


> I don't believe its as black and white as a person is too ugly to attract someone out of their league looks wise. if someone can make up for what they lack in looks with their personality then there are people out there that will still find them attractive as a person. maybe the people they attract won't have a stunning personality themselves, but that's to be expected.


I agree, but when this guy's particular insecurity stems from how ugly he thinks he is, his personality being good enough is the last thing he wants to hear. Disclaimer: I was not telling him simply what he wanted to hear, but rather the truth about his looks.


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

rymo said:


> I agree, but when this guy's particular insecurity stems from how ugly he thinks he is, his personality being good enough is the last thing he wants to hear. Disclaimer: I was not telling him simply what he wanted to hear, but rather the truth about his looks.


yea, you're right. and its interesting you picked up on that, its a valid point that a persons insecurity over their looks could be having a knock on effect on their confidence.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

I have been making an effort to work on my confidence. Well, at least fake it, but this generally requires alcohol and drugs which I don't see as an ideal solution. A recent revelation confirms that the few people in my ''social circle'', generally view me as somebody who's quite gloomy and withdrawn. So I would agree that the general public public likely views me this way too.. One of them made a remark over the weekend that I was a different person, and appeared quite shocked at how upbeat and talkative I was that night.. She kept going on and on about it.. asking what was up with me, and am I dating.. She was likely drunk too, but well.. she then went on to tell me how I usually appear quite gloomy and depressed.
The odd thing is, I felt like **** that night, but I was stuck there and so ended up drinking quite a lot. This probably allowed me to be a little more ''convincing'', as nothing seems to matter when I'm drunk enough. So.. is alcohol the solution?


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## The Apathetic Observer (Mar 24, 2013)

Mr Blues said:


> I have been making an effort to work on my confidence. Well, at least fake it, but this generally requires alcohol and drugs which I don't see as an ideal solution. A recent revelation confirms that the few people in my ''social circle'', generally view me as somebody who's quite gloomy and withdrawn. So I would agree that the general public public likely views me this way too.. One of them made a remark over the weekend that I was a different person, and appeared quite shocked at how upbeat and talkative I was that night.. She kept going on and on about it.. asking what was up with me, and am I dating.. She was likely drunk too, but well.. she then went on to tell me how I usually appear quite gloomy and depressed.
> The odd thing is, I felt like **** that night, but I was stuck there and so ended up drinking quite a lot. This probably allowed me to be a little more ''convincing'', as nothing seems to matter when I'm drunk enough. So.. is alcohol the solution?


I wouldn't go as far as to say It's _the "_solution" per say. But it does help to a certain extent. Especially to those who are high functioning thinkers. Society chooses to make fun of these particular individuals (i.e. ~ Raj from "The Big Bang Theory") while the media makes fun of 40 year old virgins. We live in a lemming's society. And if you're not with the program, you're not even welcome to jump off the same cliff everyone else is simply because you're the "outsider".


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## renegade disaster (Jul 28, 2009)

Mr Blues said:


> I have been making an effort to work on my confidence. Well, at least fake it, but this generally requires alcohol and drugs which I don't see as an ideal solution.


that sounds good, definitely keep working at the confidence. but I would look into other ways that will give you the ability to always feel confident, so that you are not faking it but its a genuine feeling you have about yourself.



Mr Blues said:


> A recent revelation confirms that the few people in my ''social circle'', generally view me as somebody who's quite gloomy and withdrawn. So I would agree that the general public public likely views me this way too.. One of them made a remark over the weekend that I was a different person, and appeared quite shocked at how upbeat and talkative I was that night.. She kept going on and on about it.. asking what was up with me, and am I dating.. She was likely drunk too, but well.. she then went on to tell me how I usually appear quite gloomy and depressed.


its good that they've been that honest and helpful with you, I often try and pay attention to the way people who know me perceive me as it can offer a lot of perspective that we ourselves fail to see.



Mr Blues said:


> This probably allowed me to be a little more ''convincing'', as nothing seems to matter when I'm drunk enough.


with most people it lowers their inhibitions enough to let their true personality show.



Mr Blues said:


> So.. is alcohol the solution?


no, I wouldn't say so. it would be hard to maintain the image you are trying to uphold and could result in dependency,which has health implications amoung other things. its a common quick solution which people normally use for one night where they feel they need to impress someone. look into other ,more permanent, less destructive methods. approach your gp perhaps and speak with them to see what they would advise and also have a look around on here and the web for other ideas.


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## BrookeHannigan (Mar 29, 2012)

Lol people are so lame on here sorry to say
Gorgeous ugly and your stupid leages are all subjective
Women arent attracted to ugly funny guys seriously people stop being brain washed
Women are extremely shallow just as men we all want a partner we find attractive,
And to the op,move on and even if you will think i go for girls i find less attractive there will be no guarantee ttheyll like you back if i didnt have a bf i would certainly turn you down as well cause your unattractive to me, plenty of people will agree and disagree with me big deal move on.


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## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

BrookeHannigan said:


> Lol people are so lame on here sorry to say
> Gorgeous ugly and your stupid leages are all subjective
> *Women arent attracted to ugly funny guys seriously people stop being brain washed*
> *Women are extremely shallow just as men we all want a partner we find attractive,*
> And to the op,move on and even if you will think i go for girls i find less attractive there will be no guarantee ttheyll like you back if i didnt have a bf i would certainly turn you down as well cause your unattractive to me, plenty of people will agree and disagree with me big deal move on.


Thank you.

I'm glad a woman openly admitted it.


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## Rainbat (Jan 5, 2012)

BrookeHannigan said:


> Lol people are so lame on here sorry to say
> Gorgeous ugly and your stupid leages are all subjective
> Women arent attracted to ugly funny guys seriously people stop being brain washed
> Women are extremely shallow just as men we all want a partner we find attractive,
> And to the op,move on and even if you will think i go for girls i find less attractive there will be no guarantee ttheyll like you back if i didnt have a bf i would certainly turn you down as well cause your unattractive to me, plenty of people will agree and disagree with me big deal move on.


Exactly. People need to stop getting so hung up on things that don't work out. Who cares if someone doesn't like you? Who cares if you're 60 years old and have never dated anyone because nobody finds you attractive? Move on already.

For example, I could think that BrookeHannigan here is the least attractive person on the planet both physically and mentally - ugly with no personality what-so-ever -and that if she died tomorrow, nothing of value would be lost.

You know how that would make her feel? She wouldn't care. She'd laugh about it. That's what you have to make yourself do. You just have to not care. About anything or anyone. Be completely apathetic. Be so obsessively in love with yourself that no matter how many people in this world hate you, it just rolls right off your shoulder.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

**** man, move on? Don't you people get it, I can't move on. Nothing else matters to me anymore. Do you think this affects only one aspect of my life? It doesn't. It has consumed my life. My life is literally on hold due to it. It's the sole reason for my SA. It's the reason I can't even walk down the street comfortably without feeling like I'm being judged and picked apart.
You want me to ''not care''? It's possible, if I stay drunk all the time. In fact, I'm heading in that direction anyway.


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## farfegnugen (Aug 16, 2010)

Go for it. If she thinks she's out of your league, then who cares if she rejects you. You're better off without someone like that. Just watch that she doesn't treat you like her little plaything.


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## Mr Blues (Apr 1, 2011)

Lol I'm severely intoxicated right now, and I couldn't give two ****s about what anyone thinks. Feels good.
It's like a morphine equivalent for me. No pain! Pity I have to trash my body for this feeling but what good is this abomination if I can't make some sort of use out of it.


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