# Losing gut/gaining muscle



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

Alright, so i've been hitting the gym for about a year now. I'm 5'11", went from roughly 211lbs to 185lbs. Now i've recently been wanting to build more muscle, which is going really well when I look at my arms. However, I still have a flabby gut. It's pretty much the only part of my body where there's still too much fat. 

Basically, my question comes down to whether it's possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time. I've started taking whey shakes over a week ago, and I notice a lot of benefits from them already, like being more energetic and having less sore muscles after working out, but any other advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Deimos (Feb 12, 2013)

Cardio workouts burn belly fat, or so i have been told. You seem like you are doing well, keep it up!


----------



## life01 (Feb 20, 2013)

i agree with deimos, cardio (cycling,swimming etc)burns fat from all over the body, for definition more reps less weight, for increased muscle mass less reps more weight, lets not forget a healthy and well balanced diet.imho yes it is possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time.what is the % of body fat you have? once you know that, you can tell whether you need to lose body fat or just get better definition (which is subjective)


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Metalunatic said:


> Alright, so i've been hitting the gym for about a year now. I'm 5'11", went from roughly 211lbs to 185lbs. Now i've recently been wanting to build more muscle, which is going really well when I look at my arms. However, I still have a flabby gut. It's pretty much the only part of my body where there's still too much fat.
> 
> Basically, my question comes down to whether it's possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time. I've started taking whey shakes over a week ago, and I notice a lot of benefits from them already, like being more energetic and having less sore muscles after working out, but any other advice would be appreciated.


aim for fat loss whilst maintaining muscle. when you lose fat and maintain muscle it makes you look like you've gained muscle anyway. use creatine also as it will help keep you looking defined when you lose fat


----------



## Hi im Chris (Feb 23, 2013)

Jumping rope is a good way, google it.


----------



## 123destiny (Feb 28, 2013)

Forget cardio.

Do it if you like it but it should supplement weight training. Most people get this backwards and end up losing just as much muscle as fat slowing down their metabolism. What happens next? They stop doing cardio and get fatter than they were prior. Resistance training should always come first. Always.

I hope this helps.

Jon


----------



## 123destiny (Feb 28, 2013)

Resistance training and diet should always come first. Sorry, didn't know how to edit the above post.

Jon


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks for the many and swift answers!



Deimos said:


> Cardio workouts burn belly fat, or so i have been told. You seem like you are doing well, keep it up!





life01 said:


> i agree with deimos, cardio (cycling,swimming etc)burns fat from all over the body, for definition more reps less weight, for increased muscle mass less reps more weight, lets not forget a healthy and well balanced diet.imho yes it is possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time.what is the % of body fat you have? once you know that, you can tell whether you need to lose body fat or just get better definition (which is subjective)


Thanks, both of you, for the tip. Cardio is somewhat of a pain for me at the moment (quite litteraly) due to having a hamstring injury in both legs, thanks to me being too eager on the legpress. Fortunatly it's healing well, and I can walk long distances as well as run short ones again. I now walk to and from the gym, which together takes about 30 minutes. After that I spent 5 minutes running on the treadmill before I start training and then 5 more after i'm done. Other than that, wouldn't resistance training also help to burn fat? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to do as 123destiny suggests and use cardio as a supplement instead of my main focus?

I don't need to be incredibly ripped, but I do want to bulk up with at least *some* definiton. Honestly, I have no idea what my fat % would be. I'll ask if they can measure that for me at the gym tomorrow and report back here with the answer.



paulyD said:


> aim for fat loss whilst maintaining muscle. when you lose fat and maintain muscle it makes you look like you've gained muscle anyway. use creatine also as it will help keep you looking defined when you lose fat


How should one take the creatine? I've been reading up on that for a bit on a bodybuilding forum, and one guy said he uses it in his whey shakes, while the other swore by drinking it with grape juice.

Speaking of which, there's this guy at my gym that told me he uses weight gainers. I'm assuming I don't need that? Yeah, i'm completely oblivious to all those supplements.



Hi im Chris said:


> Jumping rope is a good way, google it.


You mean skipping rope? Never was very good at that. We had to do that during gym classes sometimes, and I always ended up flat on my face at higher tempos.



123destiny said:


> Forget cardio.
> 
> Do it if you like it but it should supplement weight training. Most people get this backwards and end up losing just as much muscle as fat slowing down their metabolism. Resistance training and diet should always come first.


You'll most likely need to make more posts of them before you can edit them.

I would normally do roughly 30 to 40 minutes of cardio out of a 2-hour visit to the gym, coupled with 5 minutes on my bike to and from the gym. Had to temporarily change that due to aforementioned injury. How is resistance training superior to cardio? I'm honestly a bit confused, because there are people here saying different things. I'd like to keep doing both of them, because being buff without having a lot of stamina isn't something i'd want.

EDIT: How often should one train? I know people at my gym that go about every day but train different muscle groups, and then there's people like me that train everything once every other day. That would be Monday, Wednesday and Friday for me.



Coincidence said:


> Well , because it's impossible to target fat loss to a specific area of the body , so all you need is a calorie deficit to lose more fat " from all over your body " , and to build muscles you should consume extra calories , and that's what makes losing fat while building muscle at the same time really difficult , Anyway lifting weights and eating a high protein diet + proper nutrition will help you preserving muscle mass while losing fat , It's really good that you start taking whey shakes that will help . Also you shouldn't ignore Cardio , well i know people " someone " who doesn't do cardio " at all " my brother lol and they have a pretty low body fat percentage but everybody is different , Steady state or HIIT do whatever works best for you , the more you become advanced the more you will know your body and what it needs , the more muscles you have the more calories you burn all you need is to become patient , train your abs only 2 times a week that is enough , " don't forget that some exercises like heavy deadlifts already tax your abdominals " and don't do crunches they're overrated i never do them , plank exercise is way better and effective or do them if you want to it's up to you , Good luck!


Well, the thing is, the gut is something I accumilated over the course of being locked in my house for two years straight, in 2009-2010. I litteraly never went out for anything other than therapy or groceries. So I don't expect a quick fix, but I do want to know that what i'm doing is right.

You mention something interesting there. I do 2x30 crunches everyday. Deadlifts and squats are unfortunatly still kinda out of the question due to the injury. While I do 2x15 pushups every day, i've never done plank exercises. Will give that a try, thanks.
And that diet you and others mentioned, should I see a dietitian for that or something?


----------



## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

I do about 15 minutes of high intensity cardio and workout about an hour then home to eat something. I only hit the gym 3 times a week which is enough for me.


----------



## afff (Dec 27, 2012)

You can't gain muscle and lose fat. Well you can with a perfect diet but body recomposition is very difficult to acheive and takes alot longer than bulking or cutting.

You could try something like intermittent fasting.


----------



## 123destiny (Feb 28, 2013)

Full body 3x a week as you mentioned is plenty. The key, and where most confusion lies, is not to "lose weight" it's to lose body fat. Anyone can lose weight. That's simple... chop off a leg or an arm, or, tie yourself to a tree for 3 days. You'll lose weight easily. The difficult part is losing bodyfat and to do that you must "preserve" as much muscle as you possibly can - you do this with weights, not cardio. I'm not saying ignore it altogether, I'm suggesting it is not your focus (most people in chain gyms are slugging away for hours at a time on a treadmill, yet, they're generally the most unfit people there - gyms want those members, or, better yet the members that pay and never show up). So, for fat loss, big movements, 3 times a week for heavy-ish weight. Your diet will take care of the rest. Preserve the muscle you have, or even add a bit, while burning fat. Also, stick to adding cardio at the end of your lifting or on off days. I hope this helps.. sorry if it's a bit scattered as I'm about to head out the door. 

With that said, please, explore this for yourself. There are many "experts" out there that really don't have a clue so please don't follow it blindly. There is beauty in simplicity... just keep showing up.

Jon


----------



## SVIIC (Apr 15, 2005)

Metalunatic said:


> Basically, my question comes down to whether it's possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time.


I've always heard that you can't really build significant muscle and lose significant fat at the same time.

Building muscle = calorie surplus
Losing fat = calorie deficit

Or so I believe.



life01 said:


> for definition more reps less weight, for increased muscle mass less reps more weight


Pretty sure definition is defined (no pun intended, lols) by the amount of fat covering muscles. e.g. You can't see muscular abs if they're covered by a layer of fat.

Roughly:
Loads of reps of lower weight = size (bodybuilding)
High weight fewer reps = strength



afff said:


> You can't gain muscle and lose fat. Well you can with a perfect diet but body recomposition is very difficult to acheive and takes alot longer than bulking or cutting.


Yeah, something like this, as far as I know.

And remember, as Magnus Samuelsson himself said... don't be afraid to gain weight: you have to gain weight, to gain strength! :yes






(It's at the end :b)


----------



## SVIIC (Apr 15, 2005)

Well, in related news... I'm pretty sure at least that lifting weights can prevent osteoporosis by strengthening bones.

So I imagine... that would surely outweigh the possible maybe risks of high protein intake, if they exist.


----------



## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Getting to a low body fat percentage was really hard to do..THe lowest ive ever gotten in bodyfat was around 9 percent..i still thought i was fat..:O


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

If you're at a high enough body fat percentage it's possible to build _some_ muscle while losing body fat while being in a caloric deficit but again genes will probably be the deciding factor. You want to lift heavy compound movements in the lower rep ranges to preserve as much muscle as possible while in a deficit and not do high volume low weight. Do slightly higher reps on accessory lifts.






In regards to losing the belly fat you have to lose overall body fat. Eat at a deficit while eating high protein, continue lifting weights, add 5-20 minutes HIIT such as tabata workouts (20 second work, 10 second rest for 4 minutes), Sprint 8 (8 sprints for 30 seconds, 1-2 minute rest in between sprints) and you already mentioned you walk to and from the gym so that's low intensity cardio sorted.






An article on HIIT with a routine at the end - http://www.simplyshredded.com/fit-w...-on-endless-bouts-of-steady-state-cardio.html

Article explaining Sprint 8 (HIIT program) - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/phil3.htm


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Metalunatic said:


> Thanks for the many and swift answers!
> 
> Thanks, both of you, for the tip. Cardio is somewhat of a pain for me at the moment (quite litteraly) due to having a hamstring injury in both legs, thanks to me being too eager on the legpress. Fortunatly it's healing well, and I can walk long distances as well as run short ones again. I now walk to and from the gym, which together takes about 30 minutes. After that I spent 5 minutes running on the treadmill before I start training and then 5 more after i'm done. Other than that, wouldn't resistance training also help to burn fat? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to do as 123destiny suggests and use cardio as a supplement instead of my main focus?
> 
> ...


with creatine all you have to do is take 5g of plain creatine monohydrate per day. you can take it anytime of day you want however you want.

it doesnt make any difference wether you have it pre workout, post workout, for breakfast etc.... and it doesn't make any difference wether you take it in water, in a protein shake, or with simple sugars like grapefruit juice. all that matter is that your body recieves 5 grams of creatine per day. it's that simple

there are a lot of creatine products on the market but they are all hype. all you need is a basic creatine monohydrate. it is extremely cheap but do make sure you buy a good brand.

you don't need a weight gainer either. like i said before you should aim for fat loss and forget about gaining muscle. if you strip away enough fat, maintain your muscle and use creatine i guarantee you will look like you've gained muscle. at that point if you are still not happy with your size then you can always switch to a muscle building phase afterwards

it's very simple to lose fat and MAINTAIN muscle. here are the guidlines:

*lift weights 3 times per week for 45 mins- 1 hour on mon, wed, fri
*do 20 mins of hiit 3 times per week on tue, thurs, sat 
*have a complete rest day on sunday
*eat 6 small meals per day spaced every 2-3 hours 
*each meal contains one portion of protein and one portion of carbs (e.g potatoe and chicken)
*a portion is the size of your clenched fist (e.g a baked potatoe is about the size of a clenched fist so that is one portion of carbs )
*add salad and vegtables to at least 2 meals per day 
*have at least one serving of healthy fat per day - all natural peanut butter, avacado, udo's oil
*have 2 portions of fruit per day (use these as carbs portions)
*sunday is your free day. eat whatever you want 
*take dailly - multivitamin, 5g creatine and fish oil capsules

sample meal plan :

breki - eggs and oatmeal and peanut butter
snack - whey, skim milk, fruit
lunch - tuna, wholewheat tortilla, tomatoe and avacado salad
snack - whey, skim milk, fruit
dinner - chicken , baked potatoe, brocoli, udo's oil
snack - low fat cottage cheese and natural yoghurt


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

Here's to an extremely long post.
Alright, so I promised to report back about the body fat. Strangely, my weight was 193lbs. However, I had already worked out, was wearing clothes (no shoes though), drenched with sweat, so that might account for part of the higher weight, and like I said, my arms have gotten bigger.

Appearantly my body fat was an amazing 25%...The girl that was standing next to me when I was measuring it was very surprised, because she didn't think it'd be that high from looking at it me. Compliment right there.



Nada said:


> I do about 15 minutes of high intensity cardio and workout about an hour then home to eat something. I only hit the gym 3 times a week which is enough for me.


That's great, and might be enough for me too once i'm on my target weight and got rid of all the fat, though it seems i'll have to take a more aggressive approach for a while.



123destiny said:


> Full body 3x a week as you mentioned is plenty. The key, and where most confusion lies, is not to "lose weight" it's to lose body fat. Anyone can lose weight. That's simple... chop off a leg or an arm, or, tie yourself to a tree for 3 days. You'll lose weight easily. The difficult part is losing bodyfat and to do that you must "preserve" as much muscle as you possibly can - you do this with weights, not cardio. I'm not saying ignore it altogether, I'm suggesting it is not your focus (most people in chain gyms are slugging away for hours at a time on a treadmill, yet, they're generally the most unfit people there - gyms want those members, or, better yet the members that pay and never show up). So, for fat loss, big movements, 3 times a week for heavy-ish weight. Your diet will take care of the rest. Preserve the muscle you have, or even add a bit, while burning fat. Also, stick to adding cardio at the end of your lifting or on off days. I hope this helps.. sorry if it's a bit scattered as I'm about to head out the door.
> 
> With that said, please, explore this for yourself. There are many "experts" out there that really don't have a clue so please don't follow it blindly. There is beauty in simplicity... just keep showing up.
> 
> Jon


Your advice seems to be compatible with the info others on here have given. Looks like i'll be doing HIIT along with walking on the days I have off from lifting.



afff said:


> You can't gain muscle and lose fat. Well you can with a perfect diet but body recomposition is very difficult to acheive and takes alot longer than bulking or cutting.
> 
> You could try something like intermittent fasting.





SVIIC said:


> I've always heard that you can't really build significant muscle and lose significant fat at the same time.
> 
> And remember, as Magnus Samuelsson himself said... don't be afraid to gain weight: you have to gain weight, to gain strength! :yes
> 
> ...


Ok, i've heard enough people saying that you can't really build a lot of muscle while losing fat now to be convinced. I'll aim to keep what I got while losing fat instead.

While that gaining weight part might be something to consider for later, I think that if I first want to lose that gut, gaining isn't exactly my first priority.



MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> Getting to a low body fat percentage was really hard to do..THe lowest ive ever gotten in bodyfat was around 9 percent..i still thought i was fat..:O


9% fat? Damn, I wish I had that. That 25% really struck a blow.



Coincidence said:


> It is really important , well the point of Cardio is to raise your heart rate some people do that with weights "shorter rest between sets" that will keep your heart rate elevated .. You can also do something like boxing " punching a bag or something " or swimming ...
> 
> By the way you said you don't do Deadlifts and squats due to the injury i am not sure if taking whey shakes in this case is bad mmm , the thing is , in general there is a relationship between high protein consumption and osteoporosis , that even worries most bodybuilders who hit the gym really hard mmmm i don't know , i wouldn't take it as long as i don't have a tough workout routine ...


Thanks for all the links, they were interesting reads. And you're probably right about abs being mainly made in the kitchen. As for the whey, i'm pretty sure that it's supposed to help injuries instead of hinder recovery?
Sets... I took the advice you and Forever Stalone gave, and lowered my reps today. I'd normally do about 2x15 reps on most machines like lat pull and leg press, but lowered it the reps to 10. However, I did do it 3x10. Is raising the set defeating the purpose of lowering the rep? Dumbells and that kind of thing I usually do 2x10. Also, ever since I working out, i've never taken longer than 45 seconds of pauze between sets.



ForeverStallone said:


> If you're at a high enough body fat percentage it's possible to build _some_ muscle while losing body fat while being in a caloric deficit but again genes will probably be the deciding factor. You want to lift heavy compound movements in the lower rep ranges to preserve as much muscle as possible while in a deficit and not do high volume low weight. Do slightly higher reps on accessory lifts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you actually mean *higher* bodyfat, or were you simply talking about the percentage of the body fat? As for my genes, most men in my family are pretty broad shouldered with thick arms (as in strong, not fat), but those that don't actively exercise are also pretty prone to develop a belly.
Also thanks for the articles and especially the youtube links. No *****a$s weights for me. :lol For some reason this guy also reminds me of The Rock.
It seems i'll be at the gym every day except Sunday now though, unless I can get a treadmill at home or something.

Also, this part from the article especially caught my attention:
_Doing cardio after weights or in the morning on an empty stomach will burn the greatest amount of fat. During both of these times your body is slightly carb-depleted, making fat the primary fuel source for energy._

So, what I gather from this is that I should mainly be doing cardio after working out (someone else also mentioned this). How about a 5 minute run on the treadmill to warm up before my workout, will that have an effect on the HIIT stuff, or should I just consider the walk to the gym my "warm-up"?


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

Excuse the double post, I went over the character limit with the first one.



paulyD said:


> with creatine all you have to do is take 5g of plain creatine monohydrate per day. you can take it anytime of day you want however you want.
> 
> it doesnt make any difference wether you have it pre workout, post workout, for breakfast etc.... and it doesn't make any difference wether you take it in water, in a protein shake, or with simple sugars like grapefruit juice. all that matter is that your body recieves 5 grams of creatine per day. it's that simple
> 
> ...


Alright, ordered 500g of creatine monohydrate from the same store I got my whey powder from. That diet doesn't even sound too bad. You know, when I look at what you're writing, I already eat most of this stuff except for nuts and peanuts, because i'm fatally alergic to those. So what would one eat as a replacement for the nuts? I already take multivitamins every day, btw.

I think my biggest problem at the moment probably is not so much *what* i'm eating, but that I: a) often skip or delay a meal, and often eat at vastly different times and b) I should probably get up and go to bed at fixed times, regardless of what my schedule looks like for that day.

The rest is pretty clear, but what about the fruit? Does it matter what fruit? I currently eat two portions of fruit already (although at the moment I usually eat them at the same time, in the evening), and it usually is a bowl of grapes and an orange. Sometimes i'll switch that bowl with a banana.

Also, what about alcohol and coffee? I mean, I very rarely drink alcohol these days, maybe once every other week, but I do have a daily cup of coffee.

Lastly, the whey. I currently take the first shake along with my breakfast. I take my second whey shake immediatly after I get home from the workout. How long of a time should there be in between the shakes and meals like breakfast/dinner?

So all in all we have, and let me know if I overlooked some points in the many awesome responses i've gotten from you guys:

- Change sleeping and eating routine
- Going on a deficit diet
- Take creatine along with the whey and multivitamine
- Keep doing physical resistance exercises
- Start doing HIIT sprinting, but combined with the low intensity cardio i'm already doing.

I'll say it again, all your advices are highly appreciated!


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

Metalunatic said:


> Do you actually mean *higher* bodyfat, or were you simply talking about the percentage of the body fat? As for my genes, most men in my family are pretty broad shouldered with thick arms (as in strong, not fat), but those that don't actively exercise are also pretty prone to develop a belly.
> Also thanks for the articles and especially the youtube links. No *****a$s weights for me. :lol For some reason this guy also reminds me of The Rock.
> It seems i'll be at the gym every day except Sunday now though, unless I can get a treadmill at home or something.
> 
> ...


I was talking about percentage. From this article - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html


> There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in *overfat *beginners. I want to really stress the term *overfat* in the above sentence.


 You're 25% bf so you might be able to gain some muscle while cutting fat but it's not certain. You should be able to at least maintain it as long as you continue lifting weights and getting enough protein.

You should only do HIIT (intense cardio) after the weight training sessions not before. There's no problem with doing some light cardio beforehand as a warm up. In fact you should do it to get you're joints warmed up and blood flowing.

Also you might want to watch this - 




In regards to paulyD's advice regarding eating 6 meals a day every 2 hours, completely unnecessary (unless that's how you like eating)
http://examine.com/faq/do-i-need-to-eat-six-times-a-day-to-keep-my-metabolism-high.html
http://www.theiflife.com/eating-more-meals-does-not-speed-up-your-metabolism/
http://articles.elitefts.com/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-part-1-meal-frequency/

You said you changed your sets/reps from 2x15 to 3x10, did you increase the weight or did you use the same weight as you did for the 15 rep sets? The point of lowering the reps is so you can increase the weight on the bar/machine.

Do you have a specific routine that you follow?


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Metalunatic said:


> Excuse the double post, I went over the character limit with the first one.
> 
> Alright, ordered 500g of creatine monohydrate from the same store I got my whey powder from. That diet doesn't even sound too bad. You know, when I look at what you're writing, I already eat most of this stuff except for nuts and peanuts, because i'm fatally alergic to those. So what would one eat as a replacement for the nuts? I already take multivitamins every day, btw.
> 
> ...


i haven't included nuts in the diet. the only thing i included was peanut butter. this is simply to get some healthy fat in your diet. if you can't take peanut butter then simply replace it with a spoon of udo's oil instead

eat which ever fruit you fancy. it doesn't matter

1 cup of coffee per day wont hurt you. you don't have to be completely strict on yourself because that just leads to failure. however i would limit it to only 1 cup per day. make sure you don't go over the limit

it is best to stay away from alchohol completey. it will totally ruin your results. even on your free day you are best stearing clear of it but of course if you must have some then limit it to 1-2 bottles on free days only

don't worry about post workout shakes and pre workouts meals etc... just go to the gym and eat 6 meals per day. that's it

*also forget about the low intensity cardio. it's poitless. all you need to do is 3 hiit sessions per week

you want to eat a meal every 2-3 hours. here is an excellent eating schedule thats works and which i am currently using :

7am- breakfast 
10am - snack 
1pm - lunch 
4pm - snack 
7pm - dinner 
10pm - snack


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

ForeverStallone said:


> I was talking about percentage. From this article - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
> You're 25% bf so you might be able to gain some muscle while cutting fat but it's not certain. You should be able to at least maintain it as long as you continue lifting weights and getting enough protein.
> 
> You should only do HIIT (intense cardio) after the weight training sessions not before. There's no problem with doing some light cardio beforehand as a warm up. In fact you should do it to get you're joints warmed up and blood flowing.
> ...


you dont need to eat 6 times per day every 2-3 hours but it just makes it easier to fit all of your dailly calories in. otherswise you would be eating 3 massive meals per day


----------



## SVIIC (Apr 15, 2005)

paulyD said:


> it is best to stay away from alchohol completey. it will totally ruin your results. even on your free day you are best stearing clear of it but of course if you must have some then limit it to 1-2 bottles on free days only


Arnie used to drink beer despite training supposedly.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

life01 said:


> i agree with deimos, cardio (cycling,swimming etc)burns fat from all over the body, for definition more reps less weight, for increased muscle mass less reps more weight, lets not forget a healthy and well balanced diet.imho yes it is possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time.what is the % of body fat you have? once you know that, you can tell whether you need to lose body fat or just get better definition (which is subjective)


What about running :wink?


----------



## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

Cardio,(running+cycling) cut down _a little_ on fat and protein intake.


----------



## afff (Dec 27, 2012)

You may not want to take creatine if you are on a cut. IT bloats you up.


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

paulyD said:


> you dont need to eat 6 times per day every 2-3 hours but it just makes it easier to fit all of your dailly calories in. otherswise you would be eating 3 massive meals per day


Well you made this statement:


paulyD said:


> you want to eat a meal every 2-3 hours.


 without explaining why. I used to eat like that before I knew it was unnecessary and then stress out when I missed a meal because "I'm going catabolic bro". I've given the OP the facts so he can decide for himself how he wants to space his meals out. I personally eat 2300 calories in 2, sometimes 3 meals in an 8 hour window without a problem.



afff said:


> You may not want to take creatine if you are on a cut. IT bloats you up.


It's just water retention in the muscles. Creatine on a cut is probably more beneficial because it allows you to maintain as much strength as possible which in turn minimizes muscle loss.


----------



## johnd787 (Feb 8, 2013)

Metalunatic said:


> Alright, so i've been hitting the gym for about a year now. I'm 5'11", went from roughly 211lbs to 185lbs. Now i've recently been wanting to build more muscle, which is going really well when I look at my arms. However, I still have a flabby gut. It's pretty much the only part of my body where there's still too much fat.
> 
> Basically, my question comes down to whether it's possible to get rid of the flabby gut and build muscle and get some definition at the same time. I've started taking whey shakes over a week ago, and I notice a lot of benefits from them already, like being more energetic and having less sore muscles after working out, but any other advice would be appreciated.


Do cardio workouts.


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

ForeverStallone said:


> I was talking about percentage. From this article - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
> You're 25% bf so you might be able to gain some muscle while cutting fat but it's not certain. You should be able to at least maintain it as long as you continue lifting weights and getting enough protein.
> 
> You should only do HIIT (intense cardio) after the weight training sessions not before. There's no problem with doing some light cardio beforehand as a warm up. In fact you should do it to get you're joints warmed up and blood flowing.
> ...


Hmm, reading all that that was actually quite motivating, regardless of whether i'll actually gain muscle or not. Thing is, i'm not sure whether I can actively do HIIT for longer than maybe 5 minutes. I mean, I got the endurance to do it longer than that, but once again, my legs are probably not restored enough for that yet.

You're right, I should up the weight. The thing is that I had just increased the weight on everything this Monday, and, as a routine, I only ever raise weights on Mondays.

As for the routine, here's what my usual scedule looks like:


Walk to the gym - 15 minutes
Short warming up on treadmill - 5 minutes (2 jogging, 3 all-out running)
Sit-ups 2x30 (maybe I should change this to 3x20?)
Machines like lat pull, torso twist etc. Everything changed from 2x15 to 3x10 per your recommendation, except torso twist, which I do 2x20 (maybe change it to 3x15 or something?). Used to do leg press, but temporarily took that out.
Dumbells, wide variety of exercises for different muscle groups, recently upped sets for biceps from 2x10 to 3x10, everything else still at 2x10. Side Laterals usually devolve into reps that look like 10/8/6, though.
Cooling down - 5 mins (2 minutes running, 2 jogging, 1 walking)
Walking back home - 15 minutes
Obviously, when my legs can take it, the cooling down will be replaced with HIIT.

I had just started off doing squats before my injury, but those will have to wait I think, and i'm considering adding benchpress to the routine. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it's a compound exercise, right? Seeing as how I think deadlifts are currently a bad idea, would it help to throw it in the mix?



SVIIC said:


> Arnie used to drink beer despite training supposedly.


You know what? I'm just gonna cut it out completely, as a habit of every other week. When someone offers me one, i'll take it, but i'll just not routinely drink alcohol anymore. Messes with my OCD and, to a lesser extend, SA as well, usually the day after.



millenniumman75 said:


> What about running :wink?


That's probably how i'm going to do the HIIT, on the treadmill.



Donnie in the Dark said:


> Cardio,(running+cycling) cut down _a little_ on fat and protein intake.





paulyD said:


> i haven't included nuts in the diet. the only thing i included was peanut butter. this is simply to get some healthy fat in your diet. if you can't take peanut butter then simply replace it with a spoon of udo's oil instead
> 
> eat which ever fruit you fancy. it doesn't matter
> 
> ...





paulyD said:


> you dont need to eat 6 times per day every 2-3 hours but it just makes it easier to fit all of your dailly calories in. otherswise you would be eating 3 massive meals per day





afff said:


> You may not want to take creatine if you are on a cut. IT bloats you up.





ForeverStallone said:


> Well you made this statement:
> without explaining why. I used to eat like that before I knew it was unnecessary and then stress out when I missed a meal because "I'm going catabolic bro". I've given the OP the facts so he can decide for himself how he wants to space his meals out. I personally eat 2300 calories in 2, sometimes 3 meals in an 8 hour window without a problem.
> 
> It's just water retention in the muscles. Creatine on a cut is probably more beneficial because it allows you to maintain as much strength as possible which in turn minimizes muscle loss.


All of you, thanks for your thoughts on the diet and creatine. I'm planning on using the creatine (5g), probably will add it to my whey shake for ease of use. I hope i'll not bloat, but if I do, so be it. Keeping the muscles i've gained is more important to me in the long run than looking bloated for a bit while losing the fat.

As far as the amount of times you need to eat goes, part of me thinks 3 times would be good, but knowing myself, i'll probably want to eat something in between so sticking to the 6 times could work. On the other hand, I don't really feel like carrying around food all day when i'm out, but i'll see what works best for me.


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

ForeverStallone said:


> Well you made this statement:
> without explaining why. I used to eat like that before I knew it was unnecessary and then stress out when I missed a meal because "I'm going catabolic bro". I've given the OP the facts so he can decide for himself how he wants to space his meals out. I personally eat 2300 calories in 2, sometimes 3 meals in an 8 hour window without a problem.
> 
> It's just water retention in the muscles. Creatine on a cut is probably more beneficial because it allows you to maintain as much strength as possible which in turn minimizes muscle loss.


i advised him to eat 6 meals per day because i think thats the best option. i didn't say it's absolutely nessecary though. because it isn't


----------



## life01 (Feb 20, 2013)

hi
could someone let me know what they think is a good calorie intake per day, i know its dependent on exercise etc. and also what fat mass they think is ok (not for competitions and wanting to sustain for the long term)
im just trying to get other pov's
thanks


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

life01 said:


> hi
> could someone let me know what they think is a good calorie intake per day, i know its dependent on exercise etc. and also what fat mass they think is ok (not for competitions and wanting to sustain for the long term)
> im just trying to get other pov's
> thanks


Yeah i'd like to know that too. What would be a good fat percentage to aim for?


----------



## SVIIC (Apr 15, 2005)

Metalunatic said:


> I had just started off doing squats before my injury, but those will have to wait I think, and i'm considering adding benchpress to the routine. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it's a compound exercise, right?


Yep. Chest, triceps and apparently deltoid...
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/BBBenchPress.html

That's a very good site for exercises:
http://exrx.net/


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

life01 said:


> hi
> could someone let me know what they think is a good calorie intake per day, i know its dependent on exercise etc. and also what fat mass they think is ok (not for competitions and wanting to sustain for the long term)
> im just trying to get other pov's
> thanks


usually men need about 2500 calories per day to maintain weight. so if you need to gain weight then obviously you need more calories. if you want to lose weight you need less. exercise enters the equation also because that burns calories

if you want to lose weight then usually if you train with weights 3 x per week, do cardio 3 x per week, eat 6 meals per day containing a portion of protein with a portion of carbs, and eat what you want on sunday - you end up losing 2lb of fat per week pretty consistantly without having to count calories at all


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

Metalunatic said:


> Hmm, reading all that that was actually quite motivating, regardless of whether i'll actually gain muscle or not. Thing is, i'm not sure whether I can actively do HIIT for longer than maybe 5 minutes. I mean, I got the endurance to do it longer than that, but once again, my legs are probably not restored enough for that yet.
> 
> You're right, I should up the weight. The thing is that I had just increased the weight on everything this Monday, and, as a routine, I only ever raise weights on Mondays.
> 
> ...


If you can't do more than 5 minutes then do Tabata intervals. It's only 4 minutes. You can do body squats, jumping jacks, peddling on a bike, sprinting, etc. Search up on it. Here's a timer -  http://www.tabatatimer.com/

Ditch the sit ups and do planks, side planks, exercise ball pikes, stir the pot (on exercise ball), turkish get ups, hanging leg raises, ab wheel rollouts, reverse crunches, windmills, dragon flags, L-sits, V-sits, windshield wipers (on the floor or hanging). All these are much better than sit ups/crunches.

As a beginner my suggestion would be to do a beginner program such as Starting Strength, Stronglifts 5x5(there's a newer version with less exercises), Greyskull LP, Justin Lasceks Strength and Conditioning Program, Beginning Beef, Reg Park's Beginner Program. As a beginner you can add weight every session instead of every week, that way you can make quicker progress.

All those programs are based around compound lifts. Yes bench press is one of them as well as dips, chin ups, barbell rows, deadlifts, squats,overhead press.

If you can't squat or deadlift because of injury try to get by without them for now. There's alternatives such as front squats, goblet squats, Bulgarian split squats. As for deadlifts I'm experimenting because of injury with side deadlifts (or suitcase deadlifts) and Romanian deadlifts. And from the website SVIIC linked there's this exercise directory for the different muscles - http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtMale.html


----------



## ForeverStallone (Apr 4, 2011)

life01 said:


> hi
> could someone let me know what they think is a good calorie intake per day, i know its dependent on exercise etc. and also what fat mass they think is ok (not for competitions and wanting to sustain for the long term)
> im just trying to get other pov's
> thanks





Metalunatic said:


> Yeah i'd like to know that too. What would be a good fat percentage to aim for?


Calorie intake is largely dependent on your activity level. If you've got a physical job you're going to burn up more calories than an office worker, then you add any exercise on top of that even though exercise doesn't really burn all that much. But use a calorie calculator to give you an idea and then go from there.

As for bf%, lean out much as you want until you like what you see in the mirror (unless you have BDD) or purely for health reasons I'd stay under 20%, maybe closer to 15%. These charts might will help - http://www.builtlean.com/2010/08/03/ideal-body-fat-percentage-chart/


----------



## 123destiny (Feb 28, 2013)

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-cardio-vs-weights

Jon


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

123destiny said:


> http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-cardio-vs-weights
> 
> Jon


Very informative, and it confirms what other people at my gym have told me as well, and i'm witnessing this with my own body too. I've upped my resistance training, less reps, more sets with higher weights every week. I have actually gained weight, but lost fat, which is noticable in my gut already, and especially evident in my arms and shoulders, which are starting to grow significantly.

Probably the biggest change i've made is not going to bed at 4am anymore, but at 1 or 2 am. I'll have to move that back to 12am at some point, but it's kind of hard to suddenly go to bed 4 hours earlier, so i'll have to do that gradually. I eat at different times, more often, and less in a single meal. I cut out desserts every day and instead now only take those in the weekends. The rest of my food was already pretty solid, except for evening snacks a few hours before I went to bed, which I haven't taken anymore. It's all surprisingly easy so far, and I feel a lot better already.

Cardio is up to 15 minutes on the treadmill, along with 30 minutes of walking, as mentioned before. As for the HIIT thing. I've discussed it with my physiotherapist, and she strongly advised against doing it, due to my hamstring injury. She thinks i'll end up making the injury worse, should I try that in this state. I have, however, started leg press and hip adductions/abductions again at a comfortable weight. Still taking 40g whey shakes twice a day with a daily dose of 5g creatine. That stuff works wonders, or so it feels. After one week of creatine, I haven't really noticed a lot of bloating, at least not in places it shouldn't bloat, but improved strength and endurance.


----------



## SVIIC (Apr 15, 2005)

Metalunatic said:


> Probably the biggest change i've made is not going to bed at 4am anymore, but at 1 or 2 am. I'll have to move that back to 12am at some point, but it's kind of hard to suddenly go to bed 4 hours earlier, so i'll have to do that gradually.


Damn straight. I got up at 13:10 or so today... and I called that... an "early" "morning" :clap.


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

SVIIC said:


> Damn straight. I got up at 13:10 or so today... and I called that... an "early" "morning" :clap.


All too familiar. Doesn't help if you take courses at home and you can plan your own stuff, either.


----------



## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Metalunatic said:


> Very informative, and it confirms what other people at my gym have told me as well, and i'm witnessing this with my own body too. I've upped my resistance training, less reps, more sets with higher weights every week. I have actually gained weight, but lost fat, which is noticable in my gut already, and especially evident in my arms and shoulders, which are starting to grow significantly.
> 
> Probably the biggest change i've made is not going to bed at 4am anymore, but at 1 or 2 am. I'll have to move that back to 12am at some point, but it's kind of hard to suddenly go to bed 4 hours earlier, so i'll have to do that gradually. I eat at different times, more often, and less in a single meal. I cut out desserts every day and instead now only take those in the weekends. The rest of my food was already pretty solid, except for evening snacks a few hours before I went to bed, which I haven't taken anymore. It's all surprisingly easy so far, and I feel a lot better already.
> 
> Cardio is up to 15 minutes on the treadmill, along with 30 minutes of walking, as mentioned before. As for the HIIT thing. I've discussed it with my physiotherapist, and she strongly advised against doing it, due to my hamstring injury. She thinks i'll end up making the injury worse, should I try that in this state. I have, however, started leg press and hip adductions/abductions again at a comfortable weight. Still taking 40g whey shakes twice a day with a daily dose of 5g creatine. That stuff works wonders, or so it feels. After one week of creatine, I haven't really noticed a lot of bloating, at least not in places it shouldn't bloat, but improved strength and endurance.


the creatine bloating thing is nothing more than a myth. i promise you


----------

