# Avoidant Personality Disorder



## ImWeird (Apr 26, 2010)

Someone told me that I might have this and I'm starting to think maybe so. Is this some branch off of social anxiety? This pretty much describes me to a t.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001936/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder

Anyone else?


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## aussiegal (Mar 18, 2011)

I didn't know what it was before I came here, but it describes me too.


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## silentcliche (Jun 30, 2010)

Yeah, I've always suspected I had AvPD more than anything. I can perform decently in social situations if I have to but I'll fight tooth and nail to avoid having them in the first place.


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## ImWeird (Apr 26, 2010)

Maybe a lot of people here have this and not social anxiety. Would make a lot of sense.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

Yep, I'm pretty sure I got this too...but I can't be sure because I'm avoiding the doctors office, in order to avoid being diagnosed with yet another mental illness...I avoid things(almost every thing actually) like they are the plague.


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## d93 (Jan 6, 2011)

I have this  Which led to me dropping out of school....


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Wow that sounds like me more than SA. I usually don't let it get to the point where I'm with a bunch of strangers.:|


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

I consider myself to have avpd but there aren't any avpd forums so I came here.


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## daniel1989 (Feb 14, 2011)

I used to avoid social situations completely, it used to be so bad I was afraid to leave the house back in the day. However I think that was general anxiety. Now what really helped me for conquering my fears and living in a city with about 5 million people lol.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

ImWeird said:


> Someone told me that I might have this and I'm starting to think maybe so. Is this some branch off of social anxiety? This pretty much describes me to a t.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001936/
> 
> ...


From your second link:
"There is controversy as to whether Avoidant personality disorder is a distinct disorder from generalized social phobia and it is contended by some that they are merely different conceptualisations of the same disorder, where Avoidant personality disorder may represent the more severe form.[9][10] This is argued as generalized social phobia and Avoidant personality disorder have a similar diagnostic criteria and may share a similar causation, subjective experience, course, treatment, and identical underlying personality features, such as shyness"


I'll try to explain this. In psychiatry, conditions are divided into groups, for examples the *psychoses* (Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder ...), the *neuroses* (Social Anxiety, OCD, Body Dismorphic D, etc.) and *Personality Disorders* (of which DSM has 10), plus other groups like organic brain disease, drug abuse.
But what concerns us here is the difference between a Personality Disorder (AvPD) and a neurosis (SA). 
A personality disorder is something you are pretty much stuck with after adolescence (if not treated). It's part of you. It's your disordered personality.
A neurosis is something that any normal (or abnormal) person can acquire at any stage. For example, anyone can develop phobias - claustrophobia, snake phobias, social phobia (SA).

So the difference, if there is one, is how it is conceptualised. Your personality *is* you; a neurosis is some illness that is superimposed on you. 
The reason the above quote says AvPD is more severe form than SA is for this reason. It's an inherent part of you. Also, AvPD is a pervasive condition, meaning that most of those criteria probably apply to all aspects of your life; whereas someone with SA might only have specific problems in certain areas (although SA _can_ be just as pervasive). Also, if you have AvPD, you are, by definition, avoidant. Some people with SA might experience severe anxiety, but still choose to pursue a career and relationships despite their suffering.

Maybe one day, when psychiatry is more sophisticated, the answer will be more apparent. In any case, the treatment is similar, depending on the amount of avoidance, and the amount of anxiety etc.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Ramondo said:


> From your second link:
> "There is controversy as to whether Avoidant personality disorder is a distinct disorder from generalized social phobia and it is contended by some that they are merely different conceptualisations of the same disorder, where Avoidant personality disorder may represent the more severe form.[9][10] This is argued as generalized social phobia and Avoidant personality disorder have a similar diagnostic criteria and may share a similar causation, subjective experience, course, treatment, and identical underlying personality features, such as shyness"
> 
> 
> ...


Every thread that mentions avpd goes in this direction.


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## Chelllliiee (Mar 22, 2011)

I also have AvPD. It's no walk in the park. :/


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## chimmychurry (Mar 23, 2011)

intresting.. this describes me as well. i didnt even know there was this type of disorder.. yah i avoid lil things like calling my job to see what time i work.. or ill avoid certain people on days that i know there is a social gathering or accasion.. but umm yes this is very interesante!


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

Ramondo said:


> So the difference, if there is one, is how it is conceptualised. Your personality *is* you; a neurosis is some illness that is superimposed on you.
> The reason the above quote says AvPD is more severe form than SA is for this reason. It's an inherent part of you. Also, AvPD is a pervasive condition, meaning that most of those criteria probably apply to all aspects of your life; whereas someone with SA might only have specific problems in certain areas (although SA _can_ be just as pervasive). Also, if you have AvPD, you are, by definition, avoidant. Some people with SA might experience severe anxiety, but still choose to pursue a career and relationships despite their suffering.


Yeah, that's an interesting take on it, I've never really bothered to even look up AvPD, because it was SAD, maybe just defined a little differently. Always thought they were pretty much one & the same.

From the 1st link:



> A person with avoidant personality disorder may:
> 
> Be easily hurt when people criticize or disapprove of them
> Hold back too much in intimate relationships
> ...


I know I'm self-diagnosing here, but I have all 7 of these. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most severe, all of these are a 9 or a 10 for me.

Hmmm....if AvPD is such an inherent part of you, it'd explain why I've never been able to get very far in any kind of therpay, despite seeing over a dozen psychiatrists over the last 25 or so years. It's not from lack of trying.

More evidence I'm a lost cause, all hope is gone. Yay.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

TenYears said:


> Hmmm....if AvPD is such an inherent part of you, it'd explain why I've never been able to get very far in any kind of therpay, despite seeing over a dozen psychiatrists over the last 25 or so years. It's not from lack of trying.
> 
> More evidence I'm a lost cause, all hope is gone. Yay.


That might sound like bad news and a pessimistic outlook. But for some people, it's a blessing in disguise. It means you can stop looking for a "cure", and start saying to yourself, "OK, that's who I am. How can I best live with myself?"

I have a similar therapy history to what you describe. I always considered myself to have SA. I've also always been obsessive (perfectionistic, too serious, obsessed with detail, too controlled, procrastinating etc). It's made a difference to me to consider that my primary problem with people stems from OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive PD) rather than some easily treated neurosis. It opens up new self-help approaches.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

LALoner said:


> Every thread that mentions avpd goes in this direction.


Maybe it's right then? :idea


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

Ramondo said:


> That might sound like bad news and a pessimistic outlook. But for some people, it's a blessing in disguise. It means you can stop looking for a "cure", and start saying to yourself, "OK, that's who I am. How can I best live with myself?"
> 
> I have a similar therapy history to what you describe. I always considered myself to have SA. I've also always been obsessive (perfectionistic, too serious, obsessed with detail, too controlled, procrastinating etc). It's made a difference to me to consider that my primary problem with people stems from OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive PD) rather than some easily treated neurosis. It opens up new self-help approaches.


Definitely worth thinking about, thanks. In my case I don't hop from one therapist to the next, without giving it a real chance. I'm known to keep going to the same one for months, even years, not give up, even after I think we're no longer making any progress. Every single pdoc I've ever been to at some point hits a wall with me. They've tried everything, meds, different therapies, & I simply just don't make any progress. They literally do not know what to do with me next. So this kind of makes sense.


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## Witchcraft (Jan 19, 2010)

count me in too.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

ImWeird said:


> Someone told me that I might have this and I'm starting to think maybe so. Is this some branch off of social anxiety? This pretty much describes me to a t.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001936/
> 
> ...


avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety disorder are extremely similar but the difference between the 2 is :

*level of severity. avpd takes over your life completely. you will be anxious in almost every situation apart from when you are alone 
*avpd is anxiety about who you are as a person were as social anxiety disorder is anxiety about social performance, being judged, showing anxiety symptoms and embarrassing your self


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

ive had avpd since childhood. but when i was about 18 i developed sa too. as a child i was always anxious but i never used to blush or escape situations. after the age of 18 though i started blushing all of the time and i'd just get up and leave the situation if i did. thats social anxiety, its more to do with showing physical symptoms of anxiety and being embarassed about them


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

LALoner said:


> I consider myself to have avpd but there aren't any avpd forums so I came here.


There is a AvPD forum on Psychforums.com if you are interested. Though please, don't abandon us. Haha.

I don't have AvPD. Just SA. I'm a loner, but not Avoidant.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> From your second link:
> "There is controversy as to whether Avoidant personality disorder is a distinct disorder from generalized social phobia and it is contended by some that they are merely different conceptualisations of the same disorder, where Avoidant personality disorder may represent the more severe form.[9][10] This is argued as generalized social phobia and Avoidant personality disorder have a similar diagnostic criteria and may share a similar causation, subjective experience, course, treatment, and identical underlying personality features, such as shyness"
> 
> 
> ...


avpd is *NOT* you, it is *NOT* a part of you and it is *NOT* your personality

avpd is something you have learnt. it is a fear of who you are , its a fear that you are not good enough, that other people will reject who you are

social anxiety is also a learnt fear but unlike avpd it is not a fear to do with who you are its a fear to do with perfroming socially, embarrassing yourself and showing physical signs of anxiety

avpd can be changed just like SA can, its not a part of you, its not something you are stuck with just because its called a personality disorder


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

Yeah the more I read about it, the more I think I was misdiagnosed with SAD when it should have been this...not that it matters much since I guess the treatments are the same?


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> avpd is *NOT* you, it is *NOT* a part of you and it is *NOT* your personality
> 
> avpd is something you have learnt. it is a fear of who you are , its a fear that you are not good enough, that other people will reject who you are
> 
> ...


To the extent that you can change your personality during adulthood, a PD is NOT you. I've rarely seen it happen. Maybe if you try very hard, you can change some of your behaviours, thoughts and feelings, but generally, your habitual way of behaving towards people in your 20s will not change much over 60 years, except for maybe some mellowing with maturity. This is how the term Personality Disorder is currently used in Psychiatry. A PD is a disordered personality. It might change in future as the causes for behaviour are more widely understood.

Are you presenting a scientific opinion, or is this more for encouragement?
I'm not sure what you mean by a Personality Disorder is not your personality. That's how they are conceptualised. That's what it means when a diagnosis is made. That is your personality with a descriptive adjective applied to it which describes a basic type. A person with a AvP has as much chance of changing their personality to say, a Histrionic type as an INTJ on Myers Briggs has of becoming ESFP. 
A person with Antisocial PD as a 25 yr old who murders or rapes someone is not likely to change their personality in prison. That's part of the reason there are long prison sentences. If personality change was easy, this wouldn't be necessary.

But I'm willing to listen to documented argument (not just assertion). 
Do you think there is no biological/genetic contribution to personality? You've claimed that AvPD is learnt. You didn't mention genes. Was that an oversight?


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> To the extent that you can change your personality during adulthood, a PD is NOT you. I've rarely seen it happen. Maybe if you try very hard, you can change some of your behaviours, thoughts and feelings, but generally, your habitual way of behaving towards people in your 20s will not change much over 60 years, except for maybe some mellowing with maturity. This is how the term Personality Disorder is currently used in Psychiatry. A PD is a disordered personality. It might change in future as the causes for behaviour are more widely understood.
> 
> Are you presenting a scientific opinion, or is this more for encouragement?
> I'm not sure what you mean by a Personality Disorder is not your personality. That's how they are conceptualised. That's what it means when a diagnosis is made. That is your personality with a descriptive adjective applied to it which describes a basic type. A person with a AvP has as much chance of changing their personality to say, a Histrionic type as an INTJ on Myers Briggs has of becoming ESFP.
> ...


just because its called a personality disorder doesnt mean it's your personality. its not your personality its a way of peircieving, thinking, beleiving and acting that makes an avpd HIDE their personality. avpd is a fear of showing other people your true personality.

this is how avpd works :

an external event will trigger unconcious beliefs in their mind, those beleifs will then create the automatic thoughts and the meaning they give to the event, this will then create the state that the person is in. in this case an anxious state. then the state will create a behaviour e.g avoidance , not speaking, hiding the personality etc..... and then the more times the behaviour is used through repetition it just becomes a habit and in the end it gets so ingrained and becomes so automatic that it seems like its just who the person is

someone with avpd can stop their mind from peirceiving events the way they do and they can stop unconcious beleifs from being triggered by external events . this can actually be done extremely easily with only one or 2 sessions (3 sessions max) of nlp. from there the avpd sufferer can change their automatic thoughts and the state they are in - that can become under their concious controll. and then they can change their behaviour step by step, anyone is capable of taking new actions

avpd is not your personality. you have a personanility but the thing with avpd is that you fear showing your personality. avpd makes you hide your personality. all a person with avpd has to do is to stop all of the behaviours theyve been using to hide their personality . if they do that then their natural personality will automatically shine through

its got nothing to do with changing your personality. its got everything to do with stopping your reactions to fear


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## sparky10 (Dec 30, 2008)

paulyD said:


> just because its called a personality disorder doesnt mean it's your personality. its not your personality its a way of peircieving, thinking, beleiving and acting that makes an avpd HIDE their personality. avpd is a fear of showing other people your true personality.
> 
> this is how avpd works :
> 
> ...


I would like to see evidence of nlp helping an avoidant person change
there behaviors in 3 sessions max! Im skeptical of nlp anyway and have tried it myself but avpd is very deeply ingrained in all aspects of your personality. nlp might scratch the surface but it definetely wont make much of a difference imo.


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## letitrock (Jan 10, 2009)

paulyD said:


> just because its called a personality disorder doesnt mean it's your personality. its not your personality its a way of peircieving, thinking, beleiving and acting that makes an avpd HIDE their personality. avpd is a fear of showing other people your true personality.
> 
> this is how avpd works :
> 
> ...


your post makes so much sense to me, thank you

What is nlp?? I too doubt that it'll work in just three sessions but what you wrote makes so much sense and it makes me more confident that I can change;


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

Avoidant personality disorder comes as a consequence for social phobia where the sufferer avoids social situations and isolates himself.

Its a step ''forward'' from SP, but it can ruin your life. I isolated myself from all my friends, i dumped my girlfriend (who to be sincere i didn't loved that much).

I had a time, like 1 year when i rejected all that rang on my door, that called me on the phone, etc and i just isolated myself in my room playing some stupid computer game on-line.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

paulyd-personality disorders are basically with you for life...most honest p-docs will admit the best that can usually be done with PDs is treating the symptoms, the anxiety or depression or anger etc etc..the absolute core personality cannot be altered too much unless caught at a very early age(10-12)..you may change a few things here and there but your core will stay intact..i have yet to hear of anyone curing themselves of schizoid PD or avoidant PD whether thru meds, therapy, hypnosis or what have you..it just cannot be done...if it can be, id like to see some examples..

acceptance is key for anyone going thru any type of mental disorder, but again accepting yourself as AVPD would be extremely hard i think..you are basically accepting that you will feel inferior to every one for the rest of your life..not a good idea imo...


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

sparky10 said:


> I would like to see evidence of nlp helping an avoidant person change
> there behaviors in 3 sessions max! Im skeptical of nlp anyway and have tried it myself but avpd is very deeply ingrained in all aspects of your personality. nlp might scratch the surface but it definetely wont make much of a difference imo.


i understand but if you read my post again you will notice that i did not say nlp can change a avpd's BEHAVIOUR in 3 sessions. i said it can stop an avpd's mind from peirceiving social events as threatening and it can stop the unconcious beleifs from being activated

think about someone with a phobia of snakes. they get scared of snakes because a snake triggers unconcious beleifs and memories in them and the mind percieves snakes as threatening. within one hour a person can go from being phobic of snakes to holding one in their hand

in 3 sessions max nlp can stop an avpd sufferer from peircieving social events as threatening and it can stop them from feeling phobic in social situations

but that doesnt mean you are cured. in the past when i used to work in a bank we had a very big canteen were over one hundred people would eat lunch at dinner. i used to eat at my desk or in this dark quiet room alone cos everytime i went into that canteen i was phobic. after a couple of sessions of nlp i could go in that canteen and spend 30 mins eating my dinner without feeling phobic. yes i felt a bit uncomfortable because it was new and out of my confort zone but the fact is that i could handle it

i wasnt cured though because i had so many behavioural habits that id developed over the years and it was up to me to change them , which takes a hell of a lot of effort and is also uncomfortable even though im no longer phobic


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

letitrock said:


> your post makes so much sense to me, thank you
> 
> What is nlp?? I too doubt that it'll work in just three sessions but what you wrote makes so much sense and it makes me more confident that I can change;


exactly. avpd is a phobia of showing your personality. overcome that phobia and stop trying to protect yourself and your natural personality is there

nlp is neuro linguistic programming. it involves hypnosis as a component of it. it cant cure you in 3 sessions but it stop you being phobic around other people. from there its up to you to do the nessecary work to stop behaving in the old ways that you used to and to start behaving differently. but nlp can also help with aquiring those new behaviours and resisting the old ones


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

belfort said:


> paulyd-personality disorders are basically with you for life...most honest p-docs will admit the best that can usually be done with PDs is treating the symptoms, the anxiety or depression or anger etc etc..the absolute core personality cannot be altered too much unless caught at a very early age(10-12)..you may change a few things here and there but your core will stay intact..i have yet to hear of anyone curing themselves of schizoid PD or avoidant PD whether thru meds, therapy, hypnosis or what have you..it just cannot be done...if it can be, id like to see some examples..
> 
> acceptance is key for anyone going thru any type of mental disorder, but again accepting yourself as AVPD would be extremely hard i think..you are basically accepting that you will feel inferior to every one for the rest of your life..not a good idea imo...


im sorry but that's just a complete load of BS

you have a personality , everybody does but somebody with avpd has deep rooted fears about showing other people their personality . therefore they end up spending their whole lives doing everything they can to hide themselves and their personality. they avoid people, they avoid places, they even avoid speaking and communication. the avoidance becomes a habit and in the end they just get used to being alone and they enjoy the isolation because it is comfortable. if an avpd sufferer was to stop protecting themslelves then you would see their personality. its not about changing your personality per say, its about stopping trying to hide your personality from others

if you are telling me that the following cannot be achieved then you must be a very pessimistic person:

1) get the avpd's mind to stop triggering anxiety when faced with a specific stimulus (i.e people, or social sitauations)
2)a person to develop new behavioural habits
3)a person to step out of their comfort zone and face a bit of fear and discomfort

number 1) has already been proven time and time again in dramatic fashion with people who are phobic of certain animals. number 2) and 3) go without saying

i know the word personality disorder makes things seem complicated but with the case of avpd it can be changed exactly the same way that social anxiety can be changed. the only difference between Sa and avpd is the thing that the person fears. Sa people fear being judged by social performance, embarrassing themselves infront of others and showing physical symptoms of SA, like blushing, infront of others. people with avpd fear expressing themsleves and showing people their personality cos they fear that they are not good enough and that they will be rejected,ridiculed and humiliated by others


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

i'd just like to give everyone a very quick example of how achieveable it is for a person with avpd to change 

one of the prime directives of the unconcious mind is to confirm what it beleives. so if as a child you experienced lots of rejection from the people closest to you and as a result you started to beleive that ''if i let people see my real self then they will reject me'' your unconcious mind will do whatever it can to prove that beleif correct. the unconcious mind is programmed like a machine, a robot , a computer, whatever you want to called it, it is programmed like a peice of machinary to confirm what it beleives.

so years later after your childhood if you encounter a situation that triggers that beleif then you unconcious mind will simply fill your concious mind with negative thoughts and feelings of self conciousness that will make you behave in a way that confirms your beleif. your unconcious mind will trigger self conciousness in you so that you become very aware of what you are doing and so that you will try your best not to give anything away, not to show your personality.

if you change that beleif at an unconcious level (which can be done in 3 sessions max with nlp) then a new beleif will be triggered in future. the new beleif might be ''im perfectly fine the way i am and if i show people who i am then they are more likely to accept me''
now if that new beleif gets triggered your unconcious mind will no longer create self concious feelings in you. it now has to prove that its ok to lets others see your personality therefore it will make you feel outwardly focused and this will most likely result in you just acting automatically without having to think about anything. it will make you just act naturally so that people see who you really are


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

LaRibbon said:


> I disagree. I think the thing both the SA and AvPD person fears is the same - fear of rejection.
> 
> Different people just have different ways of manifesting social anxiety. People with AvPD simply express less physical anxiety and have higher levels of avoidance than people with SA. But it is essentially the same problem in both cases, with different ways of coping.
> 
> I believe the personality disorder label is redundant.


nope. people with avpd fear that their real self is not good enough, that other people will ridicule, reject and humiliate them if they show their real self

none of that has to be present with SA. infact Sa can develop out of just one embarrassing experience. something really emarassing could happen to a person and their mind will associate the feelings of embarrasment with that sitaution. next time they are in that sitauation they embarassed and blush. then then they start trying to hide the blsuhing and the cycle begins. see its fear of showing symptoms, it doesnt nessecarily mean that you beleive you real self is not good enough and will be rejected as in the case of avpd


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

LaRibbon said:


> Why would one be embarrassed over expressing social anxiety symptoms? It's because they are afraid of a negative social evaluation.
> 
> In both cases the AvPD and SA sufferer are afraid of negative social evalutation by their peers. Therefore I believe the core fear is the same. Fear of rejection.


ok so you belieive that the reason a person doesnt want other people to see them blush is because they fear others will reject them because of this ?


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## sparky10 (Dec 30, 2008)

Nlp might be okay for things like "snake phobias" etc or certain other phobias like sitting in a canteen full of people, one situation. generalised social anxiety and avpd is a lot more complex and i am pretty sure noone has ever benefited from nlp with these conditions. Its a lot of hogwash to even state it does, maybe your problem was a simple phobia:idea


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> just because its called a personality disorder doesnt mean it's your personality.
> Duh!
> It doesn't _necessarily _mean that. But that's what it does mean in psychiatry. Read a book or two. You can rationalise and theorise in your mind as much as you like. It doesn't change reality (much).
> If DSM V de-classifies AvPD as a PD, then there might be some validation for what you are saying. My position is that, in psychiatry, a diagnosis of a PD means you have a disorder of your personality. At present AvPD is one of these.
> ...


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> i'd just like to give everyone a very quick example of how achieveable it is for a person with avpd to change


Sure, and I'll give a very quick example and how you can cure a schizophrenic. 
As we know, schizophrenic people have disordered thinking and hallucinations, among other things.
So, you wave you hands around him/her (or do NLP, or something similar) and chant "Snap out of it". After a few sessions they're cured.

For the less perceptive of you, this is satire. But it's no less true than what paulyD is offering - a subjective opinion with no evidence.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

sparky10 said:


> Nlp might be okay for things like "snake phobias" etc or certain other phobias like sitting in a canteen full of people, one situation. generalised social anxiety and avpd is a lot more complex and i am pretty sure noone has ever benefited from nlp with these conditions. Its a lot of hogwash to even state it does, maybe your problem was a simple phobia:idea


 me have a simple phobia ? no no no no beleive me i have extreme sa and avpd

a snake phobia is caused by one experience that anchors the phobia. avpd can be caused by many many experiences, in my case it was caused by 8 traumatic experiences in my childhood involving being rejected, criticised, humiliated and ridiculed by the people closest to me .

but just like you can deal with that one one event for a snake phobia you can also deal with the whole 8 experiences in my case. but what you'll find is that most of the experiences are connected to each other anyway so when you deal with the 1st event you automatically deal with the others too


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

LaRibbon said:


> ^ Yes.
> 
> SA people fear others thinking ''oh look at that loser blushing, he /she should have his / her **** together by now, what a weirdo....I do not want to hang around some pathetic, timid, creature who turns red when people talk to them....etc etc''...
> 
> ...


from personal experience i have had avpd all through childhood and teenage years and SA since the age of 18 and i can definately notice a difference between the 2.

as a child and a teenager i was always scared of being rejected, criticised etc..... but in the case of SA after the age of 18 when i blush its just a case of being downright embarrassed and uncomfortable. blsuhing infront of everyone is just plain unpleasant and embarrassing. theres nothing else too it . theres not some underlying issue were i beleive blushing infornt of others means that im inadequate or ill get rejected, its just embarrassing. nobody likes blushing, even confident and outgoing people will have at least one experience in their life were they get embarassed and go bright red and guess what ? they dont like it either becasue its human nature not to . thats all there is to it

i was at a football match at the weekend and the camera zoomed in on this girl who was about 21 years old, and everyone in the stadium could see her on the big screen. she had rollers in her hair so everyone in the stadium started laughing and she got really embarassed and covered her face with a birthday card that she had in her hand

this girl was confident enough to go to a football game with 40 thousand fans with her rollers in (something a social phobia wouldnt dream of doing) so she wasnt exactly the shy and retiring type. even so she still didnt like getting embarrassed infront of people becasue its human nature not to

in gillian butlers book about SA she says that for most people just dealing with automatic thoughts, stopping avoiding things and stopping using safety behaviours , and learning how to have outward focus is enough to cure you. but some other people will have to work on their deep lying beleifs in order to see changes. for avpd the problem is deeper but for most social phobics is just a case of not liking other people see you blush etc....


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> paulyD said:
> 
> 
> > just because its called a personality disorder doesnt mean it's your personality.
> ...


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Ramondo said:


> Maybe it's right then? :idea


The argument you made gets made in almost every avpd thread. And the same counter arguments get made.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> Sure, and I'll give a very quick example and how you can cure a schizophrenic.
> As we know, schizophrenic people have disordered thinking and hallucinations, among other things.
> So, you wave you hands around him/her (or do NLP, or something similar) and chant "Snap out of it". After a few sessions they're cured.
> 
> For the less perceptive of you, this is satire. But it's no less true than what paulyD is offering - a subjective opinion with no evidence.


why are you comparing schizophrenia with avpd.

avpd is not complicated (although the word personality disorder can make it sound so). avpd is fear thats it . its not complicated

the fact that you are saying ''wave your hands around him or her and chant snap out of it '' proves that you dont have any understanding of what nlp is therefore i wont bother arguing with you


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> Ramondo said:
> 
> 
> > avpd is called a PERSONALITY disorder becasue people with avpd have a ture problem with expressing their personality.
> ...


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

LALoner said:


> The argument you made gets made in almost every avpd thread. And the same counter arguments get made.


I'm beginning to see why. This is hardly an intellectual's playground. I can only implore people not to believe anything that anyone says here, no matter how often and how loudly they say it - without independent checking. 
Pimply teenagers who have never been outside their bedrooms, arguing about the subtleties of psychiatric diagnosis, is starting to crack me up.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> the fact that you are saying ''wave your hands around him or her and chant snap out of it '' proves that you dont have any understanding of what nlp is therefore i wont bother arguing with you


I know what NLP is. I've studied the basics and been to workshops. I've been to two NLP practitioners for treatment of social anxiety. One had a poster of the legendary Indian fakir (and faker) Sai Baba on his wall. The other was too much of an embarrassment to mention. 
Not only do you misunderstand AvPD, but you can't even recognise sarcasm when it's explicitly pointed out to you. 
You're a menace to science and logic.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> I know what NLP is. I've studied the basics and been to workshops. I've been to two NLP practitioners for treatment of social anxiety. One had a poster of the legendary Indian fakir (and faker) Sai Baba on his wall. The other was too much of an embarrassment to mention.
> Not only do you misunderstand AvPD, but you can't even recognise sarcasm when it's explicitly pointed out to you.
> You're a menace to science and logic.


right this is all im gonna say :

avpd is about hiding your personality because of fear. any pychiatrist or ''expert'' will tell you that

i cant be arsed arguing with you cos you dont make any sense

later tata


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> paulyD said:
> 
> 
> > You're missing the point. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your fantasies, they don't become any truer. This could be a very interesting and educational debate between the two sides except for the lack of evidence on yours.
> ...


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> i havent decided what is avpd is, the people who invented the concept have and i simply agree with them
> 
> the experts say avpd is a pervasive way of hiding ones self and the expression of onself due to fears of disaproval, rejection, criticism and humiliation


Fine. Post your references, so I can see exactly what the experts said and who they are, and what you've left out. I'm willing to do the same.
Look, you've never learnt how to have a proper debate, so this is pointless. Come back with something concrete, and we might be able to talk.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

Here's a little research I did.

The first half page of this brochure is pretty much conclusive about how the Australian Health Department officially views Personality Disorders. It's a patient-oriented brochure.
I'll quote a little; (it's easily downloadable.)
"*What is a personality disorder?*
Everyone has *personality traits* that characterise them. These are the usual 
ways that a person thinks and behaves, which make each of us unique.
*Personality traits become a personality disorder* when the pattern of thinking and behaviour is extreme, inflexible and maladaptive." &#8230;
"Personality disorders begin in childhood and persist throughout adulthood.
&#8230;
While *personality *can be difficult to change, with early and appropriate 
treatment and support, people with personality disorders can live full and 
productive lives."

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/307939DFF924900ACA2572ED001EC4F9/$File/whatper.pdf

On thing to note here is that 'personality', 'personality traits', 'personality disorder' are all used similarly. A personality disorder is a personality in which the traits are excessive. This is especially noteable in the last paragraph, which simple says "personality can be difficult to change" while undeniably including "personality disorders" within that term, as demonstrated by the second half of the sentence.

[I offer this as an example of the type of evidence that is required when making a claim. It's not meant to be conclusive. In fact, it's more an explanation of what counts as evidence rather than anything to do with Personality Disorders per se. It is the difference between my stating my opinions, and my offering evidence and support for them.]
An important feature is that it is authoritative - being an official production of the Australian Health Dept. rather than, say, some blogger called avpdMike. (The authority of the Australian Health Dept could be legitimately questioned, but remember this is just one of thousands of documents that I could produce if this were a real debate.

2) Here is an extract from another American? brochure:
"Since everyone has a personality &#8230; personality disorders reflect a variant form of normal, healthy personality. Thus, a personality disorder exists as a special case of a normal, healthy personality in much the same way as a square is a special case of the more general construct of a rectangle. Therefore, it is useful for us to begin our discussion of personality disorders by first discussing the broader, more general construct of personality." 
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=440&cn=8

Again, the definition of Personality Disorder as a personality which is disordered is quite plain. You don't have a normal personality plus a PD, just as you don't have a square and a non-square rectangle at the same time.

"The diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric Association (APA, 2000) captures these *differences between healthy and unhealthy personalities* that we have just discussed and defines a personality disorder as follows:"
(Source as above).
The part in bold is self-explanatory. You don't have a normal personality with an abnormal PD on top of it. You have one - as they call it - unhealthy personality.

I won't overburden myself with giving any more extracts and explanations. But if anyone is up for a serious debate that there is a normal personality underlying this otherwise undescribed entity of PD, I'm willing to see where it will take us. (I don't believe paulyD is intellectually qualified, since he still can't grasp the need to back up his assertions).

The type of evidence necessary would be authoritative evidence that a person with a PD has a 'normal' personality which is affected from functioning by this entity called PD.

In specific regard to AvPD, an alternative approach (as long as what the argument actually was is pinned down) would need to take the view that AvPD is NOT a true PD, and therefore that none of the above is relevant. However this would require more than assertion; or for those who don't understand what "assertion" means, it requires more than just repeating "Is not! Is too!"


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> Fine. Post your references, so I can see exactly what the experts said and who they are, and what you've left out. I'm willing to do the same.
> Look, you've never learnt how to have a proper debate, so this is pointless. Come back with something concrete, and we might be able to talk.


_Avoidant Personality Disorder_
​ ¨[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]*Description:*

*The APD has the real self in hiding*- hiding from an original environment or internal objects that were traumatic, rejecting and abusive. Due to early original pain, the adult APD cannot separate the present from the past, so everyone and everything becomes potentially dangerous and filled with anxiety and fear. Therefore, the core self, reality and everything that can trigger early pain are avoided (Jones 1).

answer me this - how come as a child i was a normal kid who liked to play with his cousins and talk to people but after the age of 5, when i went through all kinds of rejection and such , i completely changed ?

before the age of 5 i was a different person to the one i became after the age of 5 . why is that ? i never used to be silent, i never used to be mute, i never used to be avoidant , i never used to like spending time on my own, i never used to have a problem with expressing emotion ?

answer me that genius


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Monroee said:


> There is a AvPD forum on Psychforums.com if you are interested. Though please, don't abandon us. Haha.
> 
> I don't have AvPD. Just SA. I'm a loner, but not Avoidant.


Some of us formed our own private avpd group but we had to move when ning stopped carrying free groups. We moved but the forum is dead. We get one post a month. There are other avpd groups. One is so heavily moderated that it's not worth it.

I've been avpd but as I get older I move more towards schizoid pd. I don't desire human contact as much as I used to so it doesn't bother me as much anymore.

Shrinks consider PDs as axis II disorders - and insurance doesn't pay for the axis II - so they are not diagnosed much. People with personality disorders are much more likely to develop depression ond/or anxiety which are considered axis I. Here's an explanation I have read:

In Personality Disorders in Modern Life, they explain very well the difference between Axis I disorders and Axis II disorders. With that information people should distinguish easily an Axis I disorder like Social Anxiety and an Axis II disorder like Avoidant Personality Disorder.

They explain that:
Axis I disorders are analogous to diseases. They are ultimately the reason why you end up in psychiatric treatment. Those are depression, anxiety, depersonalisation, psychosis, and all those mental disorders that you can have. So they are analogous to the flu, the cold, the plague, etc: this is why you end up in the hospital.

Axis II disorders are analogous to the immune system. Personality disorders are analogous to a compromised immune system. In normal people, events in life are unlikely to lead to an Axis I disorder. However, if you have a personality disorder, you are almost certain to develop Axis I disorders, since it's as if you have a weakened immune system: any minimal infection leads to development of a disease. And like with compromised immune systems, you can also have something analogous to auto-immune diseases where the mere fact of having a personality disorder will lead to an Axis I disorder without requiring any life event at all. ; similar to auto-immune diseases like Lupus and Multiple Sclerosis, where the disease is caused by the immune system itself. The "immune system" is so overreactive that it ends up destroying instead of protecting the person.

For example, if you see Avoidant Personality Disorder as a compromised immune system (a defense mechanism, because that's really what it is), then you can see what "diseases" it makes you particularly prone to. A defense strategy that involves avoiding difficulties will simply reinforce the tendency to "avoid", such as increasing the fight or flight response, making you more and more prone to anxiety over time. It will become very easy to develop a "disease" like social anxiety even under minimal pressure, and with strong cases of avoidance, the "immune system" itself can end up spawning social anxiety by itself without even needing an outside agent. Same thing that this immune system makes you very likely to develop depression over minimal life event, and even develop depression "just like that" with no life event attached to it.

So Social Anxiety Disorder and AvPD are not even the same "category" of disorders. Axis I and Axis II are not based on the same assumptions. "Anybody" is at risk of developping SAD when under suffisant pressure, but somebody with AvPD will need significantly less pressure, and AvPD can go as far as to spawn SAD by its mere presence.

In other words, if you have an Axis II disorder, Axis I disorders will be the story of your life. You can get immediate help for Axis I disorders, but Axis II disorders tend to be particularly hard to solve and many people simply take the easy route of solving the Axis I disorders that the Axis II spawns.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> _Avoidant Personality Disorder_
> ​ ¨[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]*Description:*
> 
> *The APD has the real self in hiding*- hiding from an original environment or internal objects that were traumatic, rejecting and abusive. Due to early original pain, the adult APD cannot separate the present from the past, so everyone and everything becomes potentially dangerous and filled with anxiety and fear. Therefore, the core self, reality and everything that can trigger early pain are avoided (Jones 1).


OK, just one question about your authoritative reference "(Jones 1)".
Is this Terry Jones, the unemployed furniture salesman whose biography is on this site: http://www.tljones.co.uk/bio/biograph.htm
and who admits quite publically:
"I don't know anything about any of this.
I just live with my own version of it"
http://www.tljones.co.uk/apd/apd.htm (under the disclaimer)

I'm giving you scientific evidence and information of Health Departments and psychiatrists and Psychiatric Associations who _*do*_ know something about it, and you reply with this?

A simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.


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## spacemanspiff (Dec 23, 2009)

I've read about AvPD before but it didn't click with me until just now.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

scarpia said:


> Axis I disorders are analogous to diseases. They are ultimately the reason why you end up in psychiatric treatment. Those are depression, anxiety, depersonalisation, psychosis, and all those mental disorders that you can have. So they are analogous to the flu, the cold, the plague, etc: this is why you end up in the hospital.
> 
> Axis II disorders are analogous to the immune system. Personality disorders are analogous to a compromised immune system. In normal people, events in life are unlikely to lead to an Axis I disorder. However, if you have a personality disorder, you are almost certain to develop Axis I disorders, since it's as if you have a weakened immune system: any minimal infection leads to development of a disease. And like with compromised immune systems, you can also have something analogous to auto-immune diseases where the mere fact of having a personality disorder will lead to an Axis I disorder without requiring any life event at all. ; similar to auto-immune diseases like Lupus and Multiple Sclerosis, where the disease is caused by the immune system itself. The "immune system" is so overreactive that it ends up destroying instead of protecting the person.
> 
> ...


This makes sense to me, on so many different levels it's kind of scary. Reading that makes me realize that maybe all these years I've just been treating "symptoms" (the Axis I stuff). Maybe that's the best I can hope for. Maybe that's as "well" as I'll ever be able to get.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> OK, just one question about your authoritative reference "(Jones 1)".
> Is this Terry Jones, the unemployed furniture salesman whose biography is on this site: http://www.tljones.co.uk/bio/biograph.htm
> and who admits quite publically:
> "I don't know anything about any of this.
> ...


i just posted the 1st thing i could find, i couldnt be bothered searching for info just to prove you wrong


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> i just posted the 1st thing i could find, i couldnt be bothered searching for info just to prove you wrong


Yeah, that's fine, pauly. I thought you were trying to help people here by posting useful information. I agree that merely trying to prove me wrong is not likely to help anyone, and would be pointless. :yes


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> Yeah, that's fine, pauly. I thought you were trying to help people here by posting useful information. I agree that merely trying to prove me wrong is not likely to help anyone, and would be pointless. :yes


answer me this though how come before the age of 5 i had a normal personality and then after the age of 5 i had a messed up personality ?


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> answer me this though how come before the age of 5 i had a normal personality and then after the age of 5 i had a messed up personality ?


Well, you have to grant that I haven't taken a full psychiatric history from you.

This, under AvPD on Wikipedia is typical of the uncertainty about how all the factors come together to form an abnormal personality in adulthood. 
"Causes
The cause of Avoidant personality disorder is not clearly defined, and may be influenced by a combination of social, genetic, and psychological factors. The disorder may be related to temperamental factors that are inherited.[8][16] Specifically, various anxiety disorders in childhood and adolescence have been associated with a temperament characterized by behavioral inhibition, including features of being shy, fearful, and withdrawn in new situations.[17] These inherited characteristics may give an individual a genetic predisposition towards AvPD.[18]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder

It's quite possible that your AvPD constitution was always there, and the event at age 5 triggered that weakness or factor (or whatever you want to call it) that then set you on the path to developing a characteristic sets of behaviours that during adolescence became diagnosable as AvPD. 
That is, the trauma at age 5 did not _cause_ the AvPD; the AvPD tendency which you always had was the reason that the trauma at age 5 affected you in this way.

At what age did your psychiatrist diagnose AvPD?


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> Well, you have to grant that I haven't taken a full psychiatric history from you.
> At what age did your psychiatrist diagnose AvPD? And how long have you had it for since then?


im 28 and had avpd since 5 so your talking about 23 years ive had. when i was a kid i was normal. then when i was about 4 1/2 i had all kinds of sh!t happen to me like my parents splitting up, my whole family rejecting, criticizing, humiliating me etc... lots and lots of painful experiences in a short period of time.

at age 5 i became different. stopped talking, stopped expressing emotion, started avoiding life, loved isolation etc... basically i really really changed as a person

ive never been diagnosed with avpd, i dont beleive in psychiatrists and counselling and medication and all that sh!t, they are all useless.

i dont need anybody to tell me i have avpd


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> im 28 and had avpd since 5 so your talking about 23 years ive had. when i was a kid i was normal. then when i was about 4 1/2 i had all kinds of sh!t happen to me like my parents splitting up, my whole family rejecting, criticizing, humiliating me etc... lots and lots of painful experiences in a short period of time.
> 
> at age 5 i became different. stopped talking, stopped expressing emotion, started avoiding life, loved isolation etc... basically i really really changed as a person
> 
> ...


I guessed as much all along. You've *never been diagnosed with AvPD.* 
If you had been, you might know something about it. You prefer to trust the web page of an unemployed furniture salesman who *also admits he knows nothing about it either *than to look up real facts. You're willfully ignorant of the condition. You could have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for all you know, or several other conditions I could name.

And yet you're set on insisting to everyone else that you know what a Personality Disorder is (despite refusing to believe the very people who invented them), and what AvPD is in particular (despite giving no evidence that you've ever read any factual information about it), and what it isn't, and *how it should manifest in other people.*

You've demonstrated several fallacies terminal to any argument you want to put forward - esp. begging the question, circular reasoning, arguing from a disregard of the facts, and asserting that your guesses are true simply because you "know" it.

Look, I don't care whether you have AvPD, or any other 3 or 4 letter acronym you want to adopt. I'm not going to tell you whether I think you have it or not. I don't care. But your deliberate misleading of other people when you haven't got a clue yourself is a bloody disgrace. You've demonstrated no credibility and no care for other people who are looking for information.

LALoner says that the counterargument to mine is always made in these threads. But he was not quite accurate. You've given no argument at all. You've merely asserted that what I've said isn't true. Since you have no argument, you require no refutation.


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

Ramondo said:


> I guessed as much all along. You've *never been diagnosed with AvPD.*
> If you had been, you might know something about it. You prefer to trust the web page of an unemployed furniture salesman who *also admits he knows nothing about it either *than to look up real facts. You're willfully ignorant of the condition. You could have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for all you know, or several other conditions I could name.
> 
> And yet you're set on insisting to everyone else that you know what a Personality Disorder is (despite refusing to believe the very people who invented them), and what AvPD is in particular (despite giving no evidence that you've ever read any factual information about it), and what it isn't, and *how it should manifest in other people.*
> ...


man i'm speachless, i dont know what to say. you seem hell bent on causing trouble and you seem to have a few issues so im gonna just leave it there. i dont think you're worth listening to so i wont


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## mic gooflander95 (Mar 16, 2011)

I've heard of that before and I think it's AvPD that I have rather than SAD. I read a wikipedia article about it and I think that I matched every criterion listed.


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## aimi12 (Aug 8, 2010)

i recently came across avoidant personality disorder, and i believe that i have it. I've heard that it is sort of part of social anxiety disorder, but that it is normally a more severe form.


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## MarkNWWISCONSIN (Apr 2, 2011)

My gosh, this is the first thread I've looked at I can honestly say I will avoid it and others if it's just an argument. But I'm sure someone is right about the conditions, it just gets hard for myself to take it all in. My first message here, so go easy


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

I think i have this one as well.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

It's hard to get a diagnosis of AvPD or any personality disorder because insurance doesn't pay for treatment of them - they are axis II. Depression and anxiety that result from the PD are axis I so they are covered by insurance.

The PD that many want put into axis I is the borderline PD. It's pretty severe. Some say it's really a form of bipolar.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

aimi12 said:


> i recently came across avoidant personality disorder, and i believe that i have it. I've heard that it is sort of part of social anxiety disorder, but that it is normally a more severe form.


 You are 14? You can't get diagnosed with any PD until you are 18 because your personality is not fully developed. That's not to say you won't have it when you are 18. But things might get better for you. I've been on avpd boards for several years and I have seen several people say they got 'cured' of avpd.


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

I have a question. Does a person with AvPD avoids even family members who he/she likes very much? Does that make any sense?


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## paulyD (Feb 16, 2011)

scarpia said:


> You are 14? You can't get diagnosed with any PD until you are 18 because your personality is not fully developed. That's not to say you won't have it when you are 18. But things might get better for you. I've been on avpd boards for several years and I have seen several people say they got 'cured' of avpd.


i developed avpd when i was 5 years old. age has nothing to do with it. most people develop their personality by before the age of 7


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

leave me alone said:


> I have a question. Does a person with AvPD avoids even family members who he/she likes very much? Does that make any sense?


Yes he does.

You like them, but you are also detached, and not very emotionally involved. Basically, independent of family members, so you never engage them emotionally, but you still like them enough that whenever you have to deal with them, you're nice.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

paulyD said:


> i developed avpd when i was 5 years old. age has nothing to do with it. most people develop their personality by before the age of 7


Wrong again, pauly. Personality disorders are not diagnosed in childhood. Yes, you can say in retrospect that your personality hasn't changed since you were 5. But since a personality disorder is a lifelong diagnosis, proper doctors do not diagnose them until at least late adolescence.


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## daniel83 (Jul 25, 2010)

I have all of the symptoms too


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## EscapeReality (May 19, 2010)

Sounds like me but comes with being a random *** at times and pissing people off


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## vermontdarling (Jan 8, 2013)

*Good News*



belfort said:


> paulyd-personality disorders are basically with you for life...most honest p-docs will admit the best that can usually be done with PDs is treating the symptoms, the anxiety or depression or anger etc etc..the absolute core personality cannot be altered too much unless caught at a very early age(10-12)..you may change a few things here and there but your core will stay intact..i have yet to hear of anyone curing themselves of schizoid PD or avoidant PD whether thru meds, therapy, hypnosis or what have you..it just cannot be done...if it can be, id like to see some examples..
> 
> acceptance is key for anyone going thru any type of mental disorder, but again accepting yourself as AVPD would be extremely hard i think..you are basically accepting that you will feel inferior to every one for the rest of your life..not a good idea imo...


I am happy to tell you, that I have struggled with AvPD for nearly 25 years without even realizing it. One day I decided to take a test to see how "crazy" I was. Turns out, I scored very highly in the Avoidance section. I smiled and thought it was interesting...until I began to read the symptoms.

I had always suspected that I was different that the people around me. I knew I was shy and reserved. I was scared to try new things. But as I got older and my classmates and twin began to grow up and get jobs and drive, try out for sports, etc. I was being left in the dust. This was accompanied by emotional breakdowns anytime I was criticized, which I obviously avoided like the plague. An intense fear and anxiety (which I did not know then) would sweep over me and paralyze me. The pain I felt was unbearable and the only escape was to dive into my imaginary world where the characters there all accepted me. It was my morphine. Even better was to do this in a hidden space, dark small and quiet. When I realized these symptoms were describing the things I had grown up with, tears streamed down my face for a long time, but somehow I knew I had found the starting point to an answer for freedom.

AvPD is a label to give yourself so you know what you are dealing with, and when you are done, you can tear it off again.* I never went to any therapy for this or got on any medications.* I simply did some inner searching, and asked myself what I believed about myself and why. I allowed my mind to go back and find what the causes were. A painful process I admit. Since then, I do not hide in closets, run into the house before the passing car sees me, refuse to drive, avoid answering the telephone, only take jobs where I do not have to have interaction with people, have intense anxiety and pain pour over me if someone criticizes me. In fact, now that I have begun to understand that what I was believing about myself were lies, and I corrected it with positive thoughts, some of the fears that were once so intense, just fell away.

I am a Christian and I asked God the Father to help me through this process and He has. It has been three years since I began. I am not there yet. There are a few things to still overcome, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and I am one happy woman today that I do not have to spend my life, looking for the next place to hide, doubt if the people I have relationships with really love and accept me, make decisions according to the level of personal interaction I will have to face. In fact, I am so hopeful about this, I have decided to get a small tattoo of a songbird in memory of this process of freedom. A song bird who has been let out of the cage and can now sing! I am a different woman that I was three years ago and it happened one step at a time, holding the hands of Jesus.

(now I ask you...If I were still Avoidant, would I have written this post?)


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## yourfavestoner (Jan 14, 2010)

leave me alone said:


> I have a question. Does a person with AvPD avoids even family members who he/she likes very much? Does that make any sense?


Depends on the Avoidant.

Not all necessarily do, it varies by person.



scarpia said:


> You are 14? You can't get diagnosed with any PD until you are 18 because your personality is not fully developed. That's not to say you won't have it when you are 18. But things might get better for you. I've been on avpd boards for several years and I have seen several people say they got 'cured' of avpd.


I thought my life sucked wen I was 14. I wasn't wrong, mind you, but it managed to get even worse seven years later.

Anyway, I was on the fast track to pathology and the events that occurred led to that level of pathology.


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## neil123 (Jan 8, 2013)

Someone told me that I might have this and I'm starting to think maybe so. Is this some branch off of social anxiety?


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## SomePerson (Nov 13, 2012)

Sounds just like me.


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## Fledgling (Jan 1, 2013)

*jumps on the AvPD bandwagon*


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## The Sleeping Dragon (Sep 29, 2011)

The DSM-IV-TR also has an Avoidant Personality Disorder diagnosis. It refers in general to a widespread pattern of inhibition around people, feeling inadequate and being very sensitive to being evaluated negatively, since early adulthood and occurring in a range of situations. In addition, four of seven specific criteria should be met, which are:


Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed
Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
Is unusually reluctant to take personal risk or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing

As always I keep in mind that I never should self diagnoze but what does it say about me if I can check all of the above?


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## Wingman01 (Mar 15, 2012)

I have this all the symptoms describe me to a tee.


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## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

Diagnosed AvPD here. Looking for insight and support on coping with it, that is if anyone is willing. Thank you in advance!


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## hippiegirl23 (Jan 13, 2013)

same


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## AlphaHydrae (Jun 15, 2011)

I never knew of this.. But I'm pretty sure I fit this disorder well.. Just oh my gawd :/ .. This sucks.


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## baxman (Aug 18, 2012)

i would like to hear from a few people that have progress with this disorder.i have both avoidant and schizoid traits so it makes it very difficult for me.


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## fashionista (Jan 7, 2013)

This is such a helpful subject to discuss, because for me one of my main triggers are unfamiliar interactions. I am fine with people I already know, but the unfamiliar situations like bars or job interviews or something like that really scare me. I have general anxiety disorder but I wonder if the avoidance is separate or something related to it. I know I meet some of the criteria above. What is unusual for me is that my friends say I am the funniest, best person to be around, but when I am alone, around strangers, I feel totally uncomfortable and panicky. So often I avoid those situations. I moved back home with family until I can get on my feet again, largely because of my avoidance issues. It's really hard at times to make yourself go in those situations where you feel totally scared and foreign. I hope medication can help this for me.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

It can be very hard to tell SA and AvPD apart even for professionals as the differences can be quite subtle.
Which one you have doesn't really greatly change what treatment is best suited for you (from my understanding), though AvPD as a personality disorder is more ingrained in your person than SA is and thus will take more effort and longer time.

While I haven't been finally diagnosed, it does seem mine is AvPD more than SA, though again, the two are very similar in many ways.


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## Nitrogen (Dec 24, 2012)

Seems like I have more symptoms of AvPD than SA. I don't really know. What exactly are the differences between Avoidant, and SA? It seems like they go hand-in-hand, though.


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## nodamecantabile (Jul 24, 2010)

vermontdarling said:


> I am happy to tell you, that I have struggled with AvPD for nearly 25 years without even realizing it. One day I decided to take a test to see how "crazy" I was. Turns out, I scored very highly in the Avoidance section. I smiled and thought it was interesting...until I began to read the symptoms.
> 
> I had always suspected that I was different that the people around me. I knew I was shy and reserved. I was scared to try new things. But as I got older and my classmates and twin began to grow up and get jobs and drive, try out for sports, etc. I was being left in the dust. This was accompanied by emotional breakdowns anytime I was criticized, which I obviously avoided like the plague. An intense fear and anxiety (which I did not know then) would sweep over me and paralyze me. The pain I felt was unbearable and the only escape was to dive into my imaginary world where the characters there all accepted me. It was my morphine. Even better was to do this in a hidden space, dark small and quiet. When I realized these symptoms were describing the things I had grown up with, tears streamed down my face for a long time, but somehow I knew I had found the starting point to an answer for freedom.
> 
> ...


That was an inspiring post  Gives me hope.


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

*By the definition*

I may be thinking differently

But I feel the opposite of avoidant
I like friends and will do anything for anyone. I respect and never ignore. Friendships begin and can lapse due to either person, and can restore! I'm so happy meeting my decades ago living with my girlfriend's boss. Re-established friendship and met his girlfriend last night. I made them laugh a lot!

I avoid crowds of people *physically* to give space to them by moving swiftly among the slow.

I NEVER, EVER turn my back on anyone. It happens wholly to me. Professionally or socially turns me into a demon / devil of fury and proud of handling that.

By this disorder / syndrome, I see this trait in all employer, recruiter agents. 
I now have an inbuilt, irreversible policy to turn down and ignore any efforts to get me to answer the phone or buy things I don't want. It carves my rut of avoidance of me of others. They get what they want. I don't.

I wish for vengeance

I'm a giver. Not a taker.
But these days, people meet me and buy drinks for me.

I have soul left and make people smile & laugh, and without this, I'm empty and surprised I can come back to life. I still feel the person I used to be. It is a gift


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## mike91 (Sep 23, 2012)

I tick all them AvPD boxes but I think I have some sa as well due to I get red face alot and even get my words mixed up
and my memory is very bad I forget alot of stuff I have done or someone will tell me mike go get item 3 90 74 and I will forget what I had to get and im only 22


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## BeachGaBulldog (Feb 13, 2007)

I had to Google it, and I definitely have it.


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## AvoidPeople (Jan 10, 2014)

See my username.


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## masterridley (Jan 20, 2007)

I don't remember if I've posted in here...

Avoidant = feels he/she is truly inferior/inadequate, extremely low self-esteem (even self-loathing), afraid of showing his/her real self, perception of self as different from others etc

Obviously, not all people with SA have the above symptoms...
I certainly didn't at the initial stages of my SA


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## Jackson4 (Jun 16, 2013)

Yep I'd say I have this as well.

Bi-polar, OCD and....now AVP??

Unfortunately comorbidity is a *****.


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

*Thanks a lot!*

This has made me laugh!

I knew about this before. Nothing's changed. Well worth considering it deja vu.

Hate people. They're all spastics.

This reinforced my understanding. I'm not socially phobic. 
I get miserable when I get ignored for too long. I know it will happen.
I don't it to others. Just when we meet first time, I might not pay attention if I don't like 'em if they're repulsive.

What employers have done to me:

They cut my hands off and gouged my eyes out. Mentally.
I can't do anything about it. Can't use the phone or plead for anything in life.

When I form any relationship with people, I upkeep it. I never turn them off. 
They do. Rejection is key - anytime during in a relationship.

Some people like me

I relish my chance to observe little kids around home running at home or in public, showing their personality of meanness, shouting, screaming, and might not like to be friends or work for them one day... moaners, or those that like their vanity, dressing up, acting for adverts, doing the repulsive wink they're directed to do at the end by gesturing: "I'm better than you & I've get the best... yoghurt..."


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