# Whoa, whoa, whoa.. New adderall generics coming!



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

I went to walmart, sams and hy-vee today and none of them carry Barr manufactured generic IR adderall anymore1  I forget the new brands they mentioned but one began with an S and the other... well I totally forget that ones name. Anyone tried any of the new manufacturers versions? 
This potentially could be extremely bad for myself as the beneficial effects I see for my anxiety/depression/focus from the Barr manufactured version is nowhere to be 'felt' on other generic manufacturers versions. 

It may sound pathetic... but I'm scared. Imagine your 'wonder drug' being swept out from under you....  I hope the new versions don't suck like the corepharma version does. 

Does barr even make adderall anymore or what?


----------



## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Honestly, if you think they're not going to work as well, you're guaranteeing they won't work as well. The placebo effect is remarkably strong and it works both ways.

They have to be within 20% bioequivalence of the original, I believe. With adderall, that's not such a big difference, 16mg instead of 20 at best. And it can just as easily work the other way around, possibly even stronger. So keep an open mind or your worries will be self-fulfilling.

There's no reason you can't just bump up your dose a tiny bit to compensate for any loss in effectiveness, you won't have extra side effects or anything because the drugs are chemically identical, and if the amount of absorbed amphetamine truly IS less in the newer generics, then bumping it up the proper amount will have the effect of just making it EXACTLY like the old stuff. Your wonder drug is not being swept out from under you. Any qualitative differences will be IN YOUR HEAD ONLY. So if you want to keep the magic of the drug, it's under your control whether or not you will let unjustified pre-expectations take it away from you.

Just don't even worry about it. Like you said, you haven't even tried them yet, so prejudging is silly. Maybe try stressing out that these ones will be TOO strong, if you honestly have to just worry about something


----------



## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

Back when I was on Adderall, my local Walgreens pharmacy was OK with special ordering the Barr generic for me because I found that it worked better than the Corepharma version, so maybe you can ask your pharmacist to special order the Barr version.

Anyway, I think the other generic manufacturers are Sandoz (http://www.drugs.com/imprints/e-84-11167.html) and Mallinckrodt (http://www.drugs.com/imprints/m-5-5082.html). I've read good things about Mallinckrodt, but I haven't experienced their generics personally.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

meyaj said:


> Honestly, if you think they're not going to work as well, you're guaranteeing they won't work as well. The placebo effect is remarkably strong and it works both ways.
> 
> They have to be within 20% bioequivalence of the original, I believe. With adderall, that's not such a big difference, 16mg instead of 20 at best. And it can just as easily work the other way around, possibly even stronger. So keep an open mind or your worries will be self-fulfilling.
> 
> ...


There are very noticeable differences felt in some (not necessarily all) people between the generic and brand or two different generics. The frequency of people noticing a difference all depends on the particular med, some generics are closer to what they are supposed to be imitating than others. However, If you don't believe me, look at the anecdotal evidence which is overwhelming.** I've had an insane amount of first hand experience with meds and their related generics and I myself can promise you that you're mistaken.

**
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79434

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48086

http://loveadderall.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/tevas-generic-adderall-xr/

Here is a page which provides means of contact to the FDA.

http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/CDER/ContactCDER/default.htm

Whats happening here on the corporate level is disturbing and disgusting and shows just how little this country cares about its citizens health when it comes time to make a profit. We need to get angry and demand that a stop is put to this. This toying-with of peoples mental health for the goal of profits must end!


----------



## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

You misunderstand me. I acknowledged there will almost definitely be differences. My point was a) that the differences in THIS case should be able to be fixed merely by adjusting the dose and that b) pessimistic prejudgments and sheer panicking about the differences before you've even tried it will PRACTICALLY ENSURE that the differences end up seeming even larger to you than they are in reality. A positive attitude, or at the very least reserving judgment until you've tried it, will minimize this effect and give you a better idea of any REAL differences.

Chemically they are required to be exactly the same. Biologically, they may NOT absorb the same. The FDA requires generics to reach a serum concentration ("bioequivalence") of about + or - 20% that of the original. Not much of an issue for adderall, but for certain things like heart meds where dosing has to be VERY accurate, brands are critical.

Now with certain brand name drugs that when generic but the XR system is still patented (ie Wellbutrin), the rate of absorption can really differ and it was too fast for a lot of people with Bupropion XL. In contrast, any generic Adderall THESE days should be using the same delivery system. Comparing brand name to generic (the links you gave me seem to mainly be doing thing) is slightly different than comparing generic to generic (what this thread seems to be about) as the former can still sometimes have patent issues.

So absorption rates shouldn't be too different, but there's a flipside to generic vs generic. Since the bioequivalence has to be + or - 20%, that means while a generic has to be within 20% of the ultimate serum concentration that the bran name reaches, that gives generics an allowable range of 80% to 120%. Ultimately, about a 40% total difference in potency (50% if you're counting from the weakest possible, 33% if you're counting from the strongest possible, both disingenuous.)

So let's use the unlikely scenario that the Barr was at the upper range of 120%, and these new ones you're getting are going to be 80%. Since there's no real reason to switch the delivery system like is sometimes the case when generics first come out, the rates of absorption should be nearly indentical, and the drugs themselves have to be CHEMICALLY identical, the only difference SHOULD be the total amount that ends up absorbed, whether it's due to different binders/fillers, different amounts of the actual DRUGS in the pill, etc. Especially since it's an IR system, it's just a drug in a pill, no complicated XR systems with erratic rates of release!! The only result you should see in this case is, at worst, a weaker pill. Having an 80% bioequivalent pill now, when used to a 120% bioequivalent, simply means you are going to need to take 50% more. This is almost certainly going to be the worst case scenario. There is no reason for it to have different QUALITATIVE effects, merely a difference in potency.

They could just as easily be stronger than the Barr though, which is why I was saying that it's premature to freak out, as your expectations WILL have an effect on your perceptions of the feeling of the drug. And I suspect it will for a lot of people who are already convinced. So the best thing you can do is keep an open mind UNTIL you've tried it for yourself, and then decide for yourself, not listen to other people, because there are *always* people making these kinds of complaints after a brand change, it's inevitable. I even see people complaining about the Barr Adderall in comparison to others...

If, without outside influence, you still decide that these don't give you the same effect, by far the most likely explanation is that they are simply weaker, albeit probably within the bounds that the FDA allows. Explain this to your prescriber and see if you can try upping your dose a bit to get to a similar level of where you were at with the Barr. Hopefully they will understand and allow it, but unfortunately they may not. This is out of your control for now though so it does no good to worry about it.

To re-iterate... I am not saying differences in drugs are all in your head, but rather that pessimism will ultimately result in the perception that the drugs are different even when they aren't (or that the difference is more drastic than it really is). And the truth is, they likely WILL be different, at least a bit, but as this is an already generic drug, switching to other generic drugs, none of which I believe have their own patents, the differences should be SOLELY in potency which can be finely tuned merely by adjusting the dosage until you find your new "optimal" level. This is REALLY the only problem outside you're doctor's willingness, if you don't have insurance, anywhere up to 50% more drugs can get more expensive. Any qualitative differences that a certain generic brand is simply not capable recreating for you, like for instance, completely losing pro-social effects, REGARDLESS of an increase in dose, can honestly be attributed with near certainty to a sort of placebo effect (involving your pessimism and preconceptions before having even tried it.)

So this is why I believe it's a little early for you to be so concerned, as it's obviously going to influence the outcome. The BEST thing you can do (the ONLY thing in your control, anyways, and stressing about anything else is just unhealthy) is to keep an open mind and come to your own conclusions once you've tried it. If other people want to be doomsayers about switching to another drug, effectively creating their own self-fulfilling prophecies, let them, but don't get sucked into that game because making negative prejudgments is GUARANTEED to bring you more negative results, it does you absolutely no good. It's almost mass hysteria, a lot of it bordering on conspiracy theories. The Wellbutrin XL issue was legitimate and highlighted some problems, but there was good reason to expect it then (totally different extended release systems due to patent), and not so much here. I see a lot of uneducated posters not being able to differentiate these things and using the Wellbutrin example to AS PROOF that their switched brands probably have similar problems (ESPECIALLY in an IR drug? I don't think so), when there's absolutely no basis for it. If you really want to learn about this stuff, I don't mean to be rude but I suggest you stop using those hysteric, mass-panic websites like the ones you posted and approach it from a more scientifically sound angle.


----------



## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

BTW, as a matter of curiosity, since you took Desipramine and I've been wondering about it myself. Were you at anywhere near a full dose of it and notriptyline? I'd like to know how they compare.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

meyaj said:


> BTW, as a matter of curiosity, since you took Desipramine and I've been wondering about it myself. Were you at anywhere near a full dose of it and notriptyline? I'd like to know how they compare.


From what I've heard Desipramine is the cleanest NRI of any tricyclic, so much so that at normal doses its practically is just a selective and potent NRI, with that said though, it appears to be a better antidepressant than the new generation NRI's like reboxetine and atomoxetine. But anyway I'll shut up and let him answer the question since he's actually taken it lol.


----------



## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

jim_morrison said:


> From what I've heard Desipramine is the cleanest NRI of any tricyclic, so much so that at normal doses its practically is just a selective and potent NRI, with that said though, it appears to be a better antidepressant than the new generation NRI's like reboxetine and atomoxetine. But anyway I'll shut up and let him answer the question since he's actually taken it lol.


I've also heard the risks for cardiac events is much higher, and that it's been linked to breast cancer (not that I have to worry about that last one )

The reason I ask is because based on the binding profile it DOES look like an extremely clean NRI and since I was working on maybe adding nortriptyline back into my regime, desipramine seems like it _may_ be a better choice. I'm interested in hearing a first-hand comparison though


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

meyaj said:


> You misunderstand me. .....and approach it from a more scientifically sound angle.


I appreciate your sentiment and the response. However, all of what your saying is rendered a bit moot due to the fact that this is NOT merely an issue where I can increase my dosage and feel the same effect. Period. I... have... tried... it.... as have thousands of others who have boycotted these new brands. Of course, I am talking about one alternate brand I tried which sucked, I will see how I respond to these new ones. You are passing judgment on something you don't even have first hand knowledge of. Once again, I mean no offense whatsoever because I appreciate your input, but you are clearly under-informed.

Referring to a different adderall generic I was given (without being informed of the change by walgreens at the time) I felt a majorly different effect on focus, verbal fluency, anxiety, depression etc. compared to the previous formulation. I increased dosage and still felt vastly different effects from the med. I really couldn't care less whether or not you believe that or not and honestly I would not be a bit panicky in the least bit if I hadn't already experienced this with a previous generic version of adderall. As a matter of fact I believe the FDA has already punished the Corepharma company for excessive deviation from the 'brand' formula of at least one medication. The fact that a brand IR version of adderall doesn't even really exist anymore further complicates matters. Frankly I don't feel the need to take the time to explain to someone who doesn't even have first hand experience with the med.

As for your 'conspiracy theory' talk, there is nothing conspiratorious about big pharma flooding the market with sh!t generic versions of meds in order to boost the profitability of their recently introduced, much more expensive, brand versions of meds (the new one being vyvanse, I believe; simply an XR version of dextroamphetamine). Thats just good business.... at the expense of peoples mental health. This kind of thing is done everyday in the health care *INDUSTRY*.

Again, I appreciate the time you put into your response and your sentiment but you really need to take some of your own advice and "keep an open mind and come to your own conclusions once you've tried it". I have, you have not, so please don't try and tell me I am being overly panicky or frequenting *"hysteric, mass-panic websites like the ones you posted and approach it from a more scientifically sound angle". That is downright insulting.* Clearly you don't know a thing about those websites (outside of the last one, which is just some dudes blog who I don't know that well) because they are frequented by many of the most informed, intelligent people on the internet. Just because a bunch of people believe something you currently do not believe doesn't give you the right to arrogantly label them as mass-panickers. That's what it comes off as at least: arrogance.

I have been taking adderall and many, many, other different psych meds for 13 years. I know perfectly well the difference between placebo effect, and a med with simply weaker potency. I have tried multiple generics of multiple meds and I know when a generic is generally quite similar (as they usually are) and when something is so significantly dis-similar as to be clinically significant.

Once again, I don't mean to offend you with this post but whether you intended to or not you definitely offended the hell out of me with your post by basically implying that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and am just panicking. Do not ever lump me, or any other of the generally fine, intelligent individuals at the other *thoroughly respectable websites* (outside of the blogger, who I don't know) I posted into the category of 'conspiracy theorists' or 'mass panickers' simply because we are pissed that medication we have relied on to successfully treat our mental health issues are being changed in some way shape or form to the point that our mental health issues aren't being adequately treated (of course not everyone notices these changes; first rule of psych meds, read my sig). If you think big pharma cares more about our health then our money and don't need to be watched, and potentially protested then you are majorly mistaken.


----------



## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

KurtG85 said:


> Again, I appreciate the time you put into your response and your sentiment but you really need to take some of your own advice and "keep an open mind and come to your own conclusions once you've tried it". I have, you have not


No, actually you said so yourself that you haven't tried them yet. Again, the issues with going from brand name to generic are different than going from generic to generic, and I'm not denying you have have actually experienced differences. I acknowledged that the incident with Wellbutrin, which seems to be a main piece of evidence in a lot of those people's claims was indeed valid, but that involved a case where by law, the generics were not even allowed to use the same extended release system as the brand name, resulting in major differences. There are other instances too where the differences are drastic, but they generally have a good explanation than can be easily anticipated. Anybody could have looked at the generic Wellbutrin before it even hit the market and logically suspected that there could be vast difference. This simply cannot be compared to what it happening here, it has no bearing on it at all, but it seems to largely be what people are attempting to do.

And I also acknowledged there could be differences in this case as well, but that it's like just a matter of dose adjustment (as terrible as Big Pharma and the FDA are, I explained why even the fairly inadequate regulations should be sufficient in a case like this). An important part of what I was telling you was at this point, especially before you have even tried it, you have NO CONTROL over this, so what does panicking accomplish? Only that you're practically guaranteeing that the drug will feel more different than it is in reality. It may very well BE different, but this premature attitude is likely to make the difference feel even more vast. This is an inarguable fact - preconceptions play a role in the ultimate response to a drug and this is why placebo has such a STRONG presence in RCTs. When you do eventually try the drug and notice differences (and judging by this thread, I can practically guarantee you will), you are free to contact the FDA about it. Anything else is out of your hands. So I pose a simple question to you, the only one that I really even care to see an answer for:

*Even if big pharma is only out to make money and doesn't care about your health (and there's no argument from me there, I totally agree), and the FDA's regulations on bioequivalence are horribly inadequate... KNOWING that you have NO control over the formulation of these generics and (hopefully being aware) that preconceptions of a drug inevitably change its effectiveness, why maintain the pessimistic attitude when the only thing it can possibly accomplish is the very thing you're worried about in the first place? *

It makes no sense at all. That is why I call it hysteria, because it serves the OPPOSITE purpose of what you really want to attain. Try the drug with an open mind, and if you DO notice a difference, contact the FDA, contact ConsumerLab to do an independent investigation, and otherwise the best you can do is relax and not sabotage the effectiveness of the drug you desperately want to hold onto.

That's my issue with the whole thing, the fact that far more often than not, all this panicking ends up being an absolute DETRIMENT. You can say people on some online forum are VERY respectable and intelligent people (seriously?), but it doesn't change the fact that stressing out about things you cannot change (and aren't even sure about, no less), is totally unhealthy.

And you're making a huge error if you think that just because you've been on psych meds for a long time you can "tell the difference between placebo and real differences." The whole point is that you cannot. It's impossible, on an individual level. This is why properly conducted RCTs are so important. In fact, it's not even a completely psychological process. It HAS been demonstrated that such preconceptions and beliefs about a drug can PHYSICALLY ALTER the way your brain reacts to it.

Now, I've seen you post before and I don't remember much but my association with the name KurtG85 was that you were a sensible guy. I hope I've merely communicated poorly and that I'm not mistaken. Perhaps you can demonstrate it either way by answering the question I posed, which is essentially the DISTILLATION of everything I was trying to say, pretty much everything else was simply trying to reassure you that there would be no essential differences, but perhaps it was irrelevant fluff, acting as a target for your angry rebuttal while allowing you to completely skip the important stuff. Who knows, you may have a very valid answer that I'm not aware of, but as it stands there's really only one logical response to it, one that you so far have not been demonstrating. So I ask for the answer to that question not only to get a response for myself, but to try and get you to actually think about what you're doing.

_(BTW, just as a matter of keeping things factual, not something I wish to argue, Dexedrine has had an XR version for a long time called Spansules. Vyvanse is a prodrug (inactive until metabolized) of Dexedrine and, while one of its stated purposes was to create a longer lasting version, a purpose which has already been fulfilled, a main draw is to make it easier for physicians to prescribe as it's harder to abuse. The metabolism required to convert it to Dexedrine means people have to ingest the drug orally, and cannot snort it, inject it, etc)_


----------



## korey (Apr 25, 2006)

From the length of meyaj's and Kurt's posts, you can tell they're both on amphetamines :lol I read posts of mine from 2+ years ago on here (back when I was on Adderall), and they were so lengthy and detailed, especially compared to my posts now, which are usually little more than a few sentences.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

korey said:


> From the length of meyaj's and Kurt's posts, you can tell they're both on amphetamines :lol I read posts of mine from 2+ years ago on here (back when I was on Adderall), and they were so lengthy and detailed, especially compared to my posts now, which are usually little more than a few sentences.


Haha yep! :lol, I've noticed that with posters on amphetamines too.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

meyaj said:


> I've also heard the risks for cardiac events is much higher, and that it's been linked to breast cancer (not that I have to worry about that last one )
> 
> The reason I ask is because based on the binding profile it DOES look like an extremely clean NRI and since I was working on maybe adding nortriptyline back into my regime, desipramine seems like it _may_ be a better choice. I'm interested in hearing a first-hand comparison though


As for cardiac risks, I would assume that it would be associated with a much higher risk of hypertension than the other tricyclics, largely because the other tricyclics have clinically significant alpha-1 adrenergic blocking properties, which counteracts any possible hypertension which would otherwise be induced by their NRI properties, whereas desipramine does not have this.
It would still have the cardiac conduction problems associated with sodium channel blockade at high doses though, as all tricyclics do.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

This is way too many words over way too simple a topic. I would much rather this thread be building upon the base topic directly rather than these spin off topics which, if I can accurately convey to you my point of view, you will realize hold extremely little bearing (to me personally) on the root issue here. 

I may be wrong but you appear to be missing the whole point of why I am pissed with this situation to begin with: When I find a med that works for me I do not want big pharma to screw it up for me because they want to make their pockets fatter. 

This thread also serves as a warning to other users of adderall who may encounter this. 

It is fact that many people experience less therapeutic effects which cannot be regained through dose increase when they switch to a new manufacturer. 

It is fact that some people are very suggestible to the 'placebo effect' of positive, or as you are saying, negative thinking. By all means people should think positively when trying a new med. This isn't the freaking issue for me, not only because I am far too experienced and self monitoring to be susceptible to this kind of self sabotage, but because its not even the main reason I am pissed to begin with. I will know damn well whether a med helps or makes things worse when I try a new med. I have tried and researched meds far too long to judge a book by its cover. Read my number one rule of psych meds in my sig for god's sake. You are preaching to the choir here. Once again, thank you for the sentiment, but I am well aware. 

The issue of this thread is not 'think positively' the issue of the thread is 'major retailers of adderall have switched their generic manufacturers'. People, including myself, have every right to be concerned and in some cases pissed so please don't attempt to be-little or de-base myself or any of the other respectable individuals on the forum websites I mentioned for simply sharing their experiences. 'Hysteria' or 'mass-panic' doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. They have every right to be pissed if a generic is not as equivalent in effect as it is marketed to be and they should not have to be afraid that they will be 'forced' (for lack of availability of their preferred manufacturer) onto an ineffective med. 

Thank you.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Waaay too much blatant ignorance to waste my time correcting in that post. I am still of the mind that we are in fact, generally, in total agreement in what we are saying. Your more than welcome to be as big of a jerk as you like, for as long as you like, but I'm done conversing with you. Take care.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

korey said:


> From the length of meyaj's and Kurt's posts, you can tell they're both on amphetamines :lol I read posts of mine from 2+ years ago on here (back when I was on Adderall), and they were so lengthy and detailed, especially compared to my posts now, which are usually little more than a few sentences.


Lol. Totally. Kinda creepy but true. Actually, the first and second post I wrote I had been out of adderall for a day or so so I wasn't on adderall at all. Its amazing how much more detail oriented I am on adderall, I go back and correct so many mistakes on adderall, but its like as a result I often get a lot less done cause I fret so much over the details.

I don't know if its true that meyaj is on amphetamines but another ironic thing is the way adderall initially made it possible for me to continue on with this kind of clearly circular logic type of debate for hours and hours, even though clearly an online (or real life) conversation was going nowhere fast. I learned that some people just can't be rationalized with, or at least not in an online disagreement.


----------



## podizzle (Nov 11, 2003)

no amps didnt read


----------



## worthmiller (Apr 17, 2010)

KurtG85 said:


> I went to walmart, sams and hy-vee today and none of them carry Barr manufactured generic IR adderall anymore1  I forget the new brands they mentioned but one began with an S and the other... well I totally forget that ones name. Anyone tried any of the new manufacturers versions?
> This potentially could be extremely bad for myself as the beneficial effects I see for my anxiety/depression/focus from the Barr manufactured version is nowhere to be 'felt' on other generic manufacturers versions.
> 
> It may sound pathetic... but I'm scared. Imagine your 'wonder drug' being swept out from under you....  I hope the new versions don't suck like the corepharma version does.
> ...


it is your own experience. Thanks for sharing


----------



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

meyaj said:


> Biologically, they may NOT absorb the same. The FDA requires generics to reach a serum concentration ("bioequivalence") of about + or - 20% that of the original. Not much of an issue for adderall, but for certain things like heart meds where dosing has to be VERY accurate, brands are critical.


Everyone should keep in mind that even brand name drugs vary from batch to batch by + or - 20%. Nothing humans make is truly perfect.

There is some irony in how brand name drug makers have often criticized generics as not being as good. The irony is that many generics are made by a generic devision of a big brand name company, so they're effectively saying our own generic stuff is trash!

I'm not even sure if Barr Adderall (mixed amphetamine salts is even made by Barr). I know Teva bought out Barr's dextroamphetamine production -- it's shown on Teva's website still using the same old markings including the "b" on one side.


----------



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Barr's Adderall:

http://www.tevausa.com/default.aspx...Tablets&brandName=Adderall® Tablets&pageId=76

Looks to be made by Teva, unless that "b" on every pill stands for something other than Barr.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> Everyone should keep in mind that even brand name drugs vary from batch to batch by + or - 20%. Nothing humans make is truly perfect.
> 
> There is some irony in how brand name drug makers have often criticized generics as not being as good. The irony is that many generics are made by a generic devision of a big brand name company, so they're effectively saying our own generic stuff is trash!
> 
> I'm not even sure if Barr Adderall (mixed amphetamine salts is even made by Barr). I know Teva bought out Barr's dextroamphetamine production -- it's shown on Teva's website still using the same old markings including the "b" on one side.


Yah, I was wondering about that. It might be that its the same stuff but its just being called 'teva' now in the computers. I should ask to see the pills next time I'm at the pharmacy. I actually wound up finding a pharmacy around town which was carrying the 'barr' adderall, by name.

What kind of generic adderall did you try?

.......

Now that I see your link, I believe this is exactly what has happened because that is indeed a picture of the usual adderall I get. Thanks for the research help Ultra! 
I guess there is still the possibility that they changed the formula while keeping the exact same look, but I don't know. Probably doubtful.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

meyaj said:


> BTW, as a matter of curiosity, since you took Desipramine and I've been wondering about it myself. Were you at anywhere near a full dose of it and notriptyline? I'd like to know how they compare.


Both of those medications contribute to a generally heightened anxiety or 'amped' feeling which caused me to stop them. Nortriptyline helped my depression a bit but for me the increased anxiety wasn't worth the trade off. I have tried the upper ranges of therapeutic levels for both. A medication like cymbalta made me feel amped and raised my irritability but with a lot more benefits to depression and my motivation levels (especially).

It should be noted I was on adderall when trying both of these. Adderall in general does increase my anxiety fairly substantially but it prevents my constant panic attacks which are highly linked to social phobia. For example: off of adderall someone walking towards me in the super market equals immediate full blown panic attack. While on adderall: someone walking towards me in the super market equals major, major anxiety but usually without the intense sweating and 100% feeling that I am about to make a fool of myself or that the person is going to despise me (which leads to the panic). In fact, usually on adderall I can be pretty clever but as soon as the social situation is over I immediately go back to obsessing over how my next social interaction will go. This obviously is a big contributor to my agoraphobia. I would like to replace the adderall because it makes my anxiety and even my depression worse and probably puts me in a state of annoying hyper-focus but I just haven't found anything that gets rid of the full blown panic as much as it does.


----------



## Eimaj (Aug 2, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> Barr's Adderall:
> 
> http://www.tevausa.com/default.aspx...Tablets&brandName=Adderall® Tablets&pageId=76
> 
> Looks to be made by Teva, unless that "b" on every pill stands for something other than Barr.


Teva acquired Barr. I work for Teva.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

Eimaj said:


> Teva acquired Barr. I work for Teva.


Do you know if they changed the formulation of the Barr manufactured adderall at all?


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Advisory****
Please watch the posts. I have had to take action in this thread and may have to again with the posts that exist here as of this post. Any more conflicts and this gets upgraded to a Lock Watch.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

millenniumman75 said:


> ****Thread Advisory****
> Please watch the posts. I have had to take action in this thread and may have to again with the posts that exist here as of this post. Any more conflicts and this gets upgraded to a Lock Watch.


Sorry MM75, my bad, I should have monitored this thread more closely, but I've only had time to skim over it, posters on amphetamines as korey mentioned, their posts can get very lengthy, indepth, and sometimes intense.


----------



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Kurt said:


> What kind of generic adder all did you try?


None. I've only been prescribed pure dextroamphetamine and I've gotten Barr (TVA).

Pure d-amphetamine in theory at least should have less peripheral effects than tossing in some l-amphetamine as Adder all does. My doc agreed that was the theory, but wasn't so sure it really made a difference in practice. Of course, typically he's giving amphetamines to those with ADD, rather than depression, so I'm sure I don't represent a typical stimulant patient for him.


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> Sorry MM75, my bad, I should have monitored this thread more closely, but I've only had time to skim over it, posters on amphetamines as korey mentioned, their posts can get very lengthy, indepth, and sometimes intense.


Lol. My posts are lengthy, indepth and sometimes intense because I am intelligent and like to write, not because I take adderall. But ya, the adderall does take it up a notch sometimes. :yes


----------



## KurtG85 (Sep 19, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> None. I've only been prescribed pure dextroamphetamine and I've gotten Barr (TVA).
> 
> Pure d-amphetamine in theory at least should have less peripheral effects than tossing in some l-amphetamine as Adder all does. My doc agreed that was the theory, but wasn't so sure it really made a difference in practice. Of course, typically he's giving amphetamines to those with ADD, rather than depression, so I'm sure I don't represent a typical stimulant patient for him.


I absolutely find dex to have far less peripheral effects than adderall. For some reason though dex just doesn't contribute to my verbal fluency like I feel adderall does. It doesn't help curb my aggression like adderall does for some reason either. Ugh.


----------



## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

KurtG85 said:


> Lol. My posts are lengthy, indepth and sometimes intense because I am intelligent and like to write, not because I take adderall. But ya, the adderall does take it up a notch sometimes. :yes


Lol don't worry that wasn't meant as an insult by any means, it's good that you take the time to contribute your thoughts and experiences. I guess I was just referring to myself as lazy in that post, because admittedly, I didn't read most of this thread lol.


----------



## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

ha ha this totally cracks me up, (in a completely respectable way, props to all Ubercessive posters) ..........I almost feel compelled to jump into the debate, (Im on Amphetamine too....) but strangely I dont feel like writing anything. 

It is ALL a Conspiracy.....therefore, rendering the whole issue Taboo, which henceforth leaves this horrific debacle in a state similar to that which it evoked before numerous intelligent individuals (including me) ripped it apart into understandable, ultrafactual tidbits.  

The ominous question remains....... What shall be done, to resolve and/or remedy the situation?


----------



## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

I think is what the OP is referring to... Shire's preparation:









I haven't tried it, but I've had experience with both Barr and Ranbaxy 5mg IR tablets. Both work fine for me, haven't noticed any difference(s). Your pharmacy should be able to order Barr Adderall if you ask.

_*Ranbaxy 5mg
*_









_*Barr (Teva) 5mg







*_


----------



## scared1960 (May 3, 2010)

meyaj said:


> You misunderstand me. I acknowledged there will almost definitely be differences. My point was a) that the differences in THIS case should be able to be fixed merely by adjusting the dose and that b) pessimistic prejudgments and sheer panicking about the differences before you've even tried it will PRACTICALLY ENSURE that the differences end up seeming even larger to you than they are in reality. A positive attitude, or at the very least reserving judgment until you've tried it, will minimize this effect and give you a better idea of any REAL differences.
> 
> Chemically they are required to be exactly the same. Biologically, they may NOT absorb the same. The FDA requires generics to reach a serum concentration ("bioequivalence") of about + or - 20% that of the original. Not much of an issue for adderall, but for certain things like heart meds where dosing has to be VERY accurate, brands are critical.
> 
> ...


will stressing about meds cause them not towork right im med phobic and so scared been on adderall a month and can tell its done nothing but raise my heartbeat and maybe make me more awake i thought i would have tons of energy and i dont im also on prozac and xaanx scared1960


----------



## scared1960 (May 3, 2010)

what is adderall suppose tpo do alla my dr said is it would give me a boost and i have been freaking the whole month i have been on it cause im not full of energy like i have read some people get im not adhd just refractory depression and anxiety im on prozac and xanax,,dr has been playing with the addderall and prozac dosed


----------

