# Jawi's go at Parnate



## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Little disclosure: I'm still really cruddy at everything right now. I'm void of any thoughts or expressions, and I really hate my loser self. So, yea.. the first few posts will suck, but that's what the Parnate's here for. Wry?

Okay, so it's been around 9 days since I started my washout from Nardil, and I just took my first hit of Parnate at 10mg this morning at 6AM, which was like 30 minutes ago. I don't feel any different, but I didn't feel any different on Nardil either until I was on at least 90mg, so Parnate too has my utmost approval to be weird.

Oh yea, I've decided to start heavy drinking on coffee throughout the day. This actually has absolutely nothing to do with Parnate, and the reason I'm hoping to rekindle my own caffeine junkie self is just a coincidence. 

So, about that, how much coffee a day CAN I have exactly while on Parnate?
What could happen if I take too much? ramble ramble ramble?

Edit: Btw, the Parnate is GSK, and it expires in 04/2015, which may not matter, but still looks a lot better than the Nardil batches I got 2 months ago which we're due to expire this November.
I have 600 tabs, so maybe the exp date does help a bit in the long run.

I'm taking it on an empty stomach. I just need to know where I can squeeze a mug of coffee into all this.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

MAO inhibition is still weeks from making an appearance, so I obviously still feel really cuss right now. I didn't notice any stimulation, which is good, because I was hoping that Parnate's stimulant effect wouldn't be so strong to make me think that that was the therapeutic relief from the drug [and not the MAO inhibition]. One thing I do already notice is I can finally sleep again. I know this isn't placebo, because for the last 2 weeks, ever since I was off Nardil up until today, I would only sleep a maximum of 3 hours a day, and I'd have to get those 3 hours by collectively stacking short 20 minute power naps because I'd keep having nightmares. At night, I would scan the my room like I was f'cking google street view for 10 hours until the sun was up because of how scary everything was for some reason. Now, for the last 5 hours, I've been able to sleep like a narcoleptic log as much as I please. Still nothing Nardil didn't also do for me, but, I mean, it was never one of my complaints, so yea..


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Err.. And about the coffee thing? I never felt stimulated by anything ever. Not so much that I actually noticed it over just feeling normally perky, so I'm not taking the coffee for stimulation justification. I actually already drank 4 tiny cups of 3 in 1's today, and Im still sleepier than I've been at any time in the last 2 weeks. I'm really just starting back up on coffee cause I was raised breast fed caffeine and diabetes, and aside from the disorder which I'm sure is unrelated to how black and corroded my child self made sure all my insides would be, I think I [Me in REMISSION/"Now me" is still kind of a royal butthorse] turned out pretty well. IQ of 139 from simply loyally following the trend of being repulsed by anything not slathered in copious amounts of Nutella [It's not pretentious 'cause i hate myself]. Maybe that explains why I'm immune to getting jacked up on anything..?

I know.. the monologue-age I'm doing is criminally pathetic, but I'm still on 10mg, and only have been for around 6 hours. I'm not quite yet in the state of mind to have no issues with not publicly shaming myself, and I might as well because until parnate really kicks in, I'm really good at it.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

I'll be following this one with interest. What made you give up on the Nardil?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

First thing was pretty hardcore cognitive side effects. I'm not saying the side effects out weighted the benefits or anything. It's just, I'm taking this med so I can talk and socialize all na-tu-rale again, but the aforementioned side effect has me constantly forgetting words, or references, or fire exits, and that's counter intuitive to the reason I wanted to take Nardil in the first place.

Second issue I had was actually kind of straight forward. Nardil just wasn't doing the job. It would only get me as far as partial remission, and the remaining symptoms I had, aside from still being so bleep bleeping frustrating, also, at least on paper, were things that Parnate is suppose to help with a lot more. The "only partially improved symptom" in question was how I can't think ever at all, like my mind is a blank canvass, and all I had to work with was a banana. It's so far most likely an anhedonia-ish thing.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Ehrmagerd that's the kind of s*** I DON'T wanna be reminded of when I'm just restarting Nardil! 

Lol but honestly, I bet Parnate's gonna be great! Any noticeable side effects so far?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Nope. My BP felt really low this morning, but when I checked it, it was like 133/69, so that's about normal normal.

I know i'm not even remotely qualified to make any concrete observations since I've only just now taken my second dose or Parnate ever, but it feels SO much cleaner than Nardil did. Taking Nardil feels kind of like the premise to some Hollywood abomination origin story. You don't really know for sure what crazy side effects you'll have that day, or how weird or filmy you might feel, or if it's gonna make things fun, or just 7th plane of hell worse.

Parnate so far just feels like nothing, but like, the kind of nothing that'll turn into a predictable something. I don't know. It just feels like it'll be consistent? Whatever. It's a happy thing.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Yeah I get what you mean, probably makes sense since Parnate is a dopamine/NE releaser vs. how Nardil starts inhibiting GABA before MAO gets inhibited so it's a really weird druggy kind of feeling hahah

Keep us updated often on how it goes dude! I for one am really excited & curious to know how it works for you... I'm hoping my Nardil/Nuvigil + Lyrica (if needed)combo ends up giving me relief from my constantly-tired depression & anxiety, but if I end up without energy looks like I'll have to walk away from the Nard again in shame and beg my psych to lemme try Parnate


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay, so I soso far noticed 2 maybe side effects from the Parnate. 1st is that I can barely eat anything, but that might not have to do with the Parnate at all, because I just had some light food poisoning since 3 days before I even started Parnate. My f'cking luck.

The other might be side effect is I've can't sleep again, but not because of nightmares and constantly waking back up. I really just don't feel tired anymore until 5 am the day after. The reason it's not a for sure for sure SE, is because I've also gotten back on coffee and caffeine since Parnate too

Oh, hey.. besides melatonin, is there anything else that's good for Parnate insomnia?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Coffe usualy goes ok with parnate i was aroung 6 cups "black", cus of the afternoon "fatigue"...When your on this typ of meds (mao-i) you buy yourself a bloodpressure divice

Hunger can go away mostly because studies show Parnate also turns to Amphetamine by the liver... Seen others that says it dont.. But ther´s like 500 amphetamine anologes so....


About the sleep... Experience that to. use to wake up 03.17 every night... Really tried to get my sleep in order, but no... Didnt work good, had a nice Dr... who realized this, was prescribed. (this is somewhat hardcore) Rohypnol/Flunitrazepam, Melatonin an anti-histamines... It helpet somewhat... Nice Dr. Some 65years+ whos been around and used this medicine before....

But im somewhat not functioning "right" on benzo so i aquire higher dosage... So Ambien, Stilnoct, Zolpidem, Zopiclone works then you should go with it...


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## adamaus (Mar 24, 2013)

Hey how much u take thank


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I'm still on 10mg, but since I checked Kehcorpz old Parnate thread, turns out he only was on 10mg for about 3 days, so I'll be moving up to 20mg on my next dose. That should be in about 4 hours and 35 minutes


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Just took 20mg. So far I'm feeling like Kehcorpz vaguely described he felt during his first week on the Parnate. I feel really warmhot everywhere, I don't feel so phased by physical activity and I'm mad munchkin horny all the time.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Go for 30, Kick it in, 20mg in the morning and 10 in the afternoon, it metabolize to Amphetamine somewhat, low dose you should feel a bit energized... And you need about 40-60mg to get the Mao-i effect...

check out Dr. Ken Gillmans homepage http://www.psychotropical.com/ its very informative and i must say that he is an expert, Sthal is also up there

http://www.psy-world.com/1008CNS_Stahl.pdf


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

watertouch said:


> Go for 30, Kick it in, 20mg in the morning and 10 in the afternoon, it metabolize to Amphetamine somewhat, low dose you should feel a bit energized... And you need about 40-60mg to get the Mao-i effect...
> 
> check out Dr. Ken Gillmans homepage http://www.psychotropical.com/ its very informative and i must say that he is an expert, Sthal is also up there
> 
> http://www.psy-world.com/1008CNS_Stahl.pdf


I know that. I'm moving up to 30 next week. Taking my time.

Also, since im relying on the MAOI, and not the stim effect, I should be fine with just 1 dose a day


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> I know that. I'm moving up to 30 next week. Taking my time.
> 
> Also, since im relying on the MAOI, and not the stim effect, I should be fine with just 1 dose a day


Very smart to not chase the fleeting "stim" effect.. are you experiencing any increased tiredness later on in the day?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Ma thread! Sorry for not updating in a while. I've been awaying a lot lately and you have Parnate to blame.

Coming from a guy who spent over 5 months on Nardil, Parnate absolutely blasts Nardil arse. On just 20mg, my social anxiety was almost completely zilch. Ground into a creamy white paste, and fed to hungry Italians. I was even able to crack a few subpar jokes around the hyper aggressive sock sales people in a mall department store. I barely made it out alive.

Right now i'm 2 days into 30mg, and I think I actually feel worse. Still, I just gotta keep on keeping on. Parnate know how Parnate know how. Right? Word.

Depression and anhedonia are still madly in love with me, but that's suppose to go away typically at 50mg. Classic Parnate.

As for side effects? I'm nocturnal. I actually haven't yet gotten to buying melatonin for sleeps, but I've just been so packed lately with important procrastinating. It's not easy being Jawi.

Oh, and sleeping on Parnate is super limbo. I took a nap today and I swear to god I was shut eye for so long, when I woke up, I had to check if my gums were receding. Instead, I woke up to find out that I had been asleep for almost 8 entire minutes!

I think I might also be getting a first time glimpse at my own hard coded, skewed, teen moral obliviousness. Ever since my anxiety started exploding on 20mg, I've been shoplifting a lot. I don't know why, but it's the funnest thing I've been able to manage with my still painfully clingy anhedonia. "At least I don't rape babies" is how I justify my malevolent actions.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Heyo. I sent a PM to kehcorpz about some questions I have. He's in remission though and doesn't exactly swing by much anymore, so I'll just copypasta the PM here and anything at all would be appreciated. I might even put out.

"Hey! You're back! [Gah! Zombie!!]

I have questions. I may even ask those questions.

I've gone from insomniac to hypersomniac on Parnate when I started 30mg. The only reason this blasts arse though is because now, I'm completely nocturnal. You know what else is nocturnal? Bats. Does this mean I'm now part bat? I don't know. That's a whole 'nother conversation to be had. So, what do you think I can do for my sleeps?

Also, I have the most cray cray orthostatic hypotension. It's the crayest. I've been reduced to sexy crawling around my apartment. Does this just go away, or do I do what now?"


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Oh Jawi, you püssy magnet.

Will your questions ever come to an end? ;P

Orthostatic hypotension on MAOIs always goes away, but it can take weeks or even months.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Just took 30mg on an empty stomach. it's been 28 minutes now and my BP is at 202/126. Ughh.. I feel tingly.

Edit: Not the first time ive felt like this even on Parnate. Just the first time I took my BP on it.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

7th day on 30mg. I don't feel great at all right now. I'm sure this'll be a butt ugly post.

Ever since I started on 30mg, I've been feeling crappier and crappier. I'm might still be a bit more talkative than I was before Parnate, but I'm terribly boring again.

My anxiety, and everything else is so much worse than it was on 20mg, but 20mg was still nowhere near full remission.

Is this normal? I still plan to get up to at least 60mg before considering changing anything, but shouldn't 30mg still feel better than 20mg? My brain feels so lame right now.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

I wouldn't get too worried this early on, seems like there's still alot of time left needed for the drug to fully take effect from anecdotal reports I've read.

IF for some reason Parnate doesn't work out, have you ever tried Vyvanse/Dextroamphetamine by itself or in combo with Lyrica? I feel like that might be an excellent combo for you judging by what you say about wanting the meds to make you chatty/interesting/outgoing etc hahah, worked great for me when I was using the combo.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

hworth said:


> I wouldn't get too worried this early on, seems like there's still alot of time left needed for the drug to fully take effect from anecdotal reports I've read.
> 
> IF for some reason Parnate doesn't work out, have you ever tried Vyvanse/Dextroamphetamine by itself or in combo with Lyrica? I feel like that might be an excellent combo for you judging by what you say about wanting the meds to make you chatty/interesting/outgoing etc hahah, worked great for me when I was using the combo.


I hope I won't have to. this is fcking insanity already. I just wanna live a normal life. One where I don't have swings in how witty, and anxious, and depressed I am. You're right though. Long way left to go on Parnate.

Oh my god. If Parnate doesn't do it for me, I think I might off myself. Get my brain scanned, or something.

Ill go check how depressed was doing on 30mg

Edit: How come I can't find anything on Hypertension with Depressed and Kehcorpz? My BP goes over 200/125 for over an hour right after I take Parnate and it makes me super sleepy too, Just like with Nardil


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Dr. Ken Gillman wrote about the the BP raise on the page i linkt to before... Are you "normally" hypertension?... MAOi are/were used to lower bloodpressure before...Maybe this effect hasent happend yet you need some 40-60mg to inhibit some 80% of MAO to get clinic effect...

My BP also goes upp when my Parnate dose kicks in not as high as yours though gonna check my papers...


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Saw in my papers BP171/107 with a pulse of 48, sitting down... Tested in few min later standing up, it was 97/66 with a pulse of 131

It´s normaly, sitting about 136/82 Pulse 72...using caffeine and nicotine.
I have normaly whitout medicin high Bloodpreassure.

And yes a get the side effect Orthostatik hypotension.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks. No. I'm normally at 120/70. When I took Nardil at 105mg before, on an empty stomach [or eating 3 hours before], my BP would jump slightly higher than it does right after I take Parnate, up to 220/130. I also don't feel like I have hypertension at all on Parnate ever. The orthostatic hypotension is enough to ground me though

I plan to split my dose when I reach 40mg just incase. You know, so I don't die.

I just hate, and don't get why Parnate is being such a turd right now. I wanna talk to this chick I met who works at a gas station, or start meeting people after I coincidentally happened to steal their wallets, or at least be able to think and make jokes again in my own crummy head..

I didn't feel any better at all with Nardil until at least 90mg. Maybe the MAOI that should be leveling out the stimulant effect isnt happening for me at this dose, but I'm just adding way more kick to the stimulant effect.

It's too early, and even though I feel like gourmet ****onastick, I won't deviate from my road to 60mg. Are there any tests, or anything stuffs I can do to help my situation? Werent kehcorpz and depressed biking and jogging on 30mg? I havent done squat. Well, I may have infact done TOO MUCH squat. Maybe if they stayed put, they suddenly feel all lousy. like I do? Back me up here. Someone.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Isnt the stimulating effect something you want?, It´s my third run on Parnate and it has a fast halflife, ive found that just the MAO blockade doesnt do much for me...

Maybe your dopamine receptors are dezentizised from the Nardil?


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Thanks. No. I'm normally at 120/70. When I took Nardil at 105mg before, on an empty stomach [or eating 3 hours before], my BP would jump slightly higher than it does right after I take Parnate, up to 220/130. I also don't feel like I have hypertension at all on Parnate ever. The orthostatic hypotension is enough to ground me though
> 
> I plan to split my dose when I reach 40mg just incase. You know, so I don't die.
> 
> ...


I would just take it easy for the time being man, I really do suspect Parnate will end up being great for you. I remember I made a thread on dr-bob.org about Parnate when I was still considering switching to it after Nardil and someone actually told me they were having worsened mood for a while. Also, you just gotta try and remember not everyone's the same, even tho it seems like dosing with Parnate should be pretty straightforward so I'd say stick with Kehcorpse's titration schedule (if you're still following that..?) but if you feel like you're getting too much too quickly then level out dose for a little while. Again, just my 2 cents, but I think you're a good dude and I definitely don't wanna see you 'off yourself'!

I'll try to find a link to the thread I mentioned if I can.

EDIT: Here's the link. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20131025/msgs/1053081.html

That guy who replied said he was actually alot worse off until week 3, when things got alot better, and that by weeks 5-8 you should know fully whether or not Parnate is right for you


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks. It kind of contradicts kehcorpz's schedule though, cuz I was only planning to stay on 30mg for 30 days, and not 5-8 weeks. does that mean I should give each dose almost twice the amount of time?


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Thanks. It kind of contradicts kehcorpz's schedule though, cuz I was only planning to stay on 30mg for 30 days, and not 5-8 weeks. does that mean I should give each dose almost twice the amount of time?


I would get up to 40mg and then stay there a little longer than you were planning if you need to. That David Hanifan guy who commented in the previous link I posted also said "for depressive and anxiety disorder, Parnate doesn't start to work it's magic until 40mg" in a different thread on dr-bob.org

Who knows how much that dude's opinion means tho lol


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Kehcorpz seemed to really like 50mg. I don't know. 8 weeks on every dose above 30mg just sounds painfully long. You think 6 weeks for 40, 50, and obviously 60mg will be enough?


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Kehcorpz seemed to really like 50mg. I don't know. 8 weeks on every dose above 30mg just sounds painfully long. You think 6 weeks for 40, 50, and obviously 60mg will be enough?


Yeah dude! I'd say 6 weeks is plenty, keep in mind I wasn't on Parnate like kehcorpz was/is and it seems like he's reached basically full remission since he barely comes on these boards anymore so I'd definitely trust his advice over mine.. I'm just repeating what I've read haha 

I'm just guessing if 40mg turns out to make you REALLY crappy vs how you feel right now then maybe it's a sign that you're reaching a good plateau point for the time being, but again totally just speculation on my part.

In other random news, Nardil is kicking my f***** *** again with the lethargy lool. fml, just got that fabled legendary Gavis nardil today tho!


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Gavis, neat.. wonder how that'll go. So, wait. You're telling me that, based on speculation, i should feel even worse on 40mg? If I felt semi good on 20mg, and now really bad on 30mg, wouldn't that mean everything 40+ is a blank card? The way I'm trying to look at it is whenever kehcorpz noticed a difference in how he felt is another chance for me to suddenly feel better. I feel like crap now even though I think he said he felt good, but he also said that on day 20 of each dose is when he started getting good on it? I don't know if that means that before day 20 on 30mg he felt bad, or what. damn.. Imma go PM him incase he ever comes back


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jawi, you will have ups and downs. Stay on it. You will be tired somedays, not others. Do the salt drink(check bp first) as I have told you, eventually your blood pressure stabilizes. I still get it sometimes 3 weeks into 60mg. I think that overall less than I used to. So maybe i'm just stabilizing to being on the MAOI for that many months to begin with. But if drinking salt does it for you like for me then small sacrifice for good results. But either way it will stabilize. Again you won't be on a steady dose for a while so all that time you will be going through ups and downs. 60mg dose is the only one where I have not had any bad days yet, and this dose was like a crazy light switch for me. Like the others worked no doubt but this one just bam and I had to start doing all this stuff in real life. Was it the dose itself or the MAOI finally being restricted long enough? Who knows but from 50mg to 60mg that's a 20% increase.

STICK WITH IT MAN. You've gotten this far. May the salt be with you.

Oh and I get Frys Pure Cocoa powder. It has a lot of potassium so it does help the salt/potassium balance. I usually will drink it at separate times as to not disrupt the salt. I think giving it an hour or 2 in either direction is fine.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh and take your BP when you wake up before taking the Parnate and again after. Maybe your BP is already high when you wake up as some people do have that. So just check the difference it is causing. For me I did get like 190/130 once I think. It should start going down within half an hour to an hour max. It is normal, but eventually when you get used to the stimulant effect it has a lesser impact on BP when you take it. So if this is the start of 30mg for you just monitor it closely.

I weight lift and apparently this can cause blood pressure to spike 220+ easily according to Gilman. Never tested it though hehe.


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

do what keh says, unless you have any severe side effects.

Like any med, it may not work like it has for someone else though. You might be sensitive to norepinephrine like I am. How have other NRI's made you feel? More depressed?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Actually, I just started feeling better. WAY better! Best I've felt on Parnate so far better!

I've been doing the cocoa thingy, plus the salt, and the BP checks, and everything. It might be coincidence, but I'm more convinced that kecorpz seriously knows his ****.

I feel bad like a mthrfckr, only by bad, I mean good, and by "like a mthrfckr", I mean.. I actually don't quite know what I mean by that.

1 thing I noticed though is, even with salt, I still cant stand up without orthostatic hypotension. say my BP is 90/45. Ill take some nasty salt water, and after 5 or so minutes, it's back up 120/75 or something. That's all well and good, but then, as soon as I stand up, my BP starts dropping again down to the original 90/45. Soon as I sit back down, it goes back up to 120/75. I tried 1/2 teaspoon of salt more than usual, but its the same thing, so I basically have no hells Idea when I should be taking salt. Ill guess just take it at the same time everyday of something.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

The salt only take when your bp is low at sitting position. Orthostatic will always go low when you stand up but once you're standing for a bit it should even out. 

If you get any vasoconstriction problems, like erectile difficulties or coldness, you could try niacin (NOT niacinamide). It's a pretty potent vasodilator. I actually realized that while looking at it at the store yesterday. Am going to suggest it to gilmour for coldness hehe. Can't be sure it will work but I have met people that flush on it because the vasodilation is so strong for them.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> The salt only take when your bp is low at sitting position. Orthostatic will always go low when you stand up but once you're standing for a bit it should even out.
> 
> If you get any vasoconstriction problems, like erectile difficulties or coldness, you could try niacin (NOT niacinamide). It's a pretty potent vasodilator. I actually realized that while looking at it at the store yesterday. Am going to suggest it to gilmour for coldness hehe. Can't be sure it will work but I have met people that flush on it because the vasodilation is so strong for them.


I have some boner problems, but I can still get rock hard on a good day. Ladies..

Also, thanks for the tip with the BP thingy. oh, and do I HAVE to wait for a while before I can take cocoa after the nasty sweaty balls tasting salt drinks?


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Nicee, good to hear Parnate's working for you again! Random question, have you gotten any insomnia so far? And if so what are you taking for it?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

hahaaaaaa
MAOI aint special its just hard to get prescribed
Fekin eat salt all day bro it wont stop it working rofl


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

hworth said:


> Nicee, good to hear Parnate's working for you again! Random question, have you gotten any insomnia so far? And if so what are you taking for it?


Parnate = insomnia
It kills appetite 2


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Insomnia? Yes and no.. right now on 30mg, since I can't not sleep after I take Parnate at 6AM, I just made that when I sleep. I sleep from 7:00AM to around 3 or 4PM, and then Im awake for the rest of the daynight! I have this melatonin supplement that puts me down like a horse tranquilizer, but I'd just be double sleeping if I took it, so I dont.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Insomnia? Yes and no.. right now on 30mg, since I can't not sleep after I take Parnate at 6AM, I just made that when I sleep. I sleep from 7:00AM to around 3 or 4PM, and then Im awake for the rest of the daynight! I have this melatonin supplement that puts me down like a horse tranquilizer, but I'd just be double sleeping if I took it, so I dont.


Vampire!! lol, wait so Parnate is actually making you tired right after you take it..? I always assumed it was the opposite because of the whole conversion to amphetamine aspect. huh

Would you mind sharing a link to the melatonin supplement you're taking? I'm starting to get bad insomnia at this point haha


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

It was just something they had available here. A bunch of herbal what's it's and a PHAT 3mg of Melatonin. Just ask for any OTC thing with Melatonin and I guess anything 0.75mg and up would be fine.

Also, Nardil did the same thing you know? When I took it, I'd explode into a blood pressure time bomb with 220/140 and it would make me sooo sleepy. I have to wait it out for a while till it gets to at least 180/whatever your face though, cuz if I lie down with 220/140, my head would explode.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jawi you crazy fool. If this stuff makes you sleep just take it before bed, don't need to do it at 6am and change your schedule. I do it at 6am because it causes insomnia and gets the dose out quickly so I rely on MAOI not stim, but for you it seems to let you sleep. So you're still 1 time dosing and not relying on the stim effect if you do it before bed at 10pm or whenever you go. 

Make sure the melatonin has no herbs in it, just melatonin alone. 

I actually came home later yesterday from movies and I woke up at 2am today and haven't been able to get back to sleep, not even after half a zopiclone. Ahh well, tis the life of Parnate haha. I'm still energized all day though. This time ill keep a full zopiclone near my bed.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Came across a thread with this on Dr. Marianos forum.

Maybe thats whats going on if you get sleepy from them...


"Stimulants
by Jay A. Goldstein, M.D.

When I began to treat patients with CFS, I was amazed to see many of them fall asleep after taking dextroamphetamine (Dexerdrine) and similar agents such as methylphenidate (Ritalin), phentermine (Ionamin), and pemoline (Cylert). Later, when amphetamine salts (Adderall) were introduced, the same paradoxical response often occurred. The cause of this sedation is central to the etiology of neurosomatic disorders (my term for inappropriate handling of sensory and cognitive input by the brain)."


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I'm not super surprised, but I feel BAAAAAD. Like, just walked out of nuclear sludge, 4 minutes left to live BAD.

I decided to move my dose to 9PM to correct my sleeping schedule, and rather than take it 1 hours or so later than the last day, which I now see would have been a fcking wonderful idea.., I took 20mg at 6AM, and the other 10mg at 9PM, then 10 at 6AM, and 20 at 9PM, and tomorrow I finally get to take my 30's again, but holy **** I feel like crud. I have a messed up sleep schedule, in the last 2 days, had only a 6 hour eating window, and brain zaps, and everything. UGHH


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

My parnate is being weird. I don't like this.

Today is the 3rd day since I've started taking it at 9PM, and my BP is barely going up. maybe just 10 points when it used to be 100. I still dont feel good again yet, and it's not making me sleepy.

It's like it stopped working WTF


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

When I was doing the switch from 6AM to 9PM, I had some pretty intense withdrawal symptoms that felt a lot like Nardil's. I really didn't think that would happen, but could it be in any way related to why it's acting differently now? The withdrawal symptoms are gone, but the regular side effects that i didnt mind anyways are gone now too, and I still don't feel any better. Anyone care to shed some light?


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

Jawi96 said:


> When I was doing the switch from 6AM to 9PM, I had some pretty intense withdrawal symptoms that felt a lot like Nardil's. I really didn't think that would happen, but could it be in any way related to why it's acting differently now? The withdrawal symptoms are gone, but the regular side effects that i didnt mind anyways are gone now too, and I still don't feel any better. Anyone care to shed some light?


It's possible that you were just riding on the amphetamine like kind of high with Parnate and now it's slowly beginning to build into what it really is.

When I took it, 5 days in I felt absolutely great for 2 days, remission great. I was clear, I was focused, I felt happy. Then literally at a certain point 48 hours after I started to crash and then I just was left with side effects. I tried to reclaim the feeling by raising the dose but it didn't work. I'm not sure if this is at all similar to your case I haven't read the full thread but I thought I'd offer was my perspective/experience.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

gilmourr said:


> It's possible that you were just riding on the amphetamine like kind of high with Parnate and now it's slowly beginning to build into what it really is.
> 
> When I took it, 5 days in I felt absolutely great for 2 days, remission great. I was clear, I was focused, I felt happy. Then literally at a certain point 48 hours after I started to crash and then I just was left with side effects. I tried to reclaim the feeling by raising the dose but it didn't work. I'm not sure if this is at all similar to your case I haven't read the full thread but I thought I'd offer was my perspective/experience.


hmm.. I see your point. splitting the dose shouldnt have hurt MAOI if there was any.. Ah well.. I'll see how it goes, but if you're right.. I really cant see much hope for me other than some radical something like stem cells or DBS, but more likely me just dying someway or another.

Who knows, maybe stims might work for me long term. I do react weirdly to them after all..


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> hmm.. I see your point. splitting the dose shouldnt have hurt MAOI if there was any.. Ah well.. I'll see how it goes, but if you're right.. I really cant see much hope for me other than some radical something like stem cells or DBS, but more likely me just dying someway or another.
> 
> Who knows, maybe stims might work for me long term. I do react weirdly to them after all..


Have you tried Adderall or Dexedrine/Vyvanse? Or even something like Nuvigil?

For me they work pretty great during the initial come-up but then I feel like I just focus on something for the next couple hours too deeply and don't really feel like being social.. that might just be me having ADD-PI tho lol, I got diagnosed a couple of months ago and did the computer test thing which came up with the result but I always assumed it was kind of bogus, maybe not

Anyways, like I might've said earlier, Lyrica or Gabapentin combined with stimulants can REALLYYY be an effective combination for being pro social and outgoing, just watch out for the come-down if you do decide to go down that route so kind of time when you need to be at the top of your game haha, unless it's with Nuvigil which personally I think is the best out of all of them, seems to keep you going most of the day without a big crash.. I remember there was this hot chick who was into me last year and I happened to luckily run into her in the hall under the influence of one of my first ever Adderall experiences, so obviously I was outgoing and had that confidence but then that night when her and some of my friends hung out I found out after I left she was wondering why I was 'acting so different'.. damn stim crash was making me really tired and apathetic! long story short, great temporary solution but I don't think it's realistically sustainable for improvement long-term

I really hope Parnate works out for you in the long run though 

(P.S., just out of curiousity, did Nardil ever help you for any period of time, even short-term?)


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Hey GUYS! [Shut your face, Hworth. Just kidding, you know I love you] The withdrawal symptoms I get from both Parnate and Nardil sound a lot like GABA withdrawal. I mean, I keep having my consciousness reset, and feel like im getting beat up by invisible trains and Mike Tysons. I get disoriented, and get into all sorts of weird planes of consciousness, and it's 'F'ing annoying as hell.

Here's Baclofens withdrawal syndrome "Withdrawal symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, dizziness, nausea, feeling faint, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, pruritus/itching, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity."

Mine was all kinds of that stuff jazzez! I remember just when I was having it, I was sitting down on the bed just watching TV, then I got completely thrown off when I felt like I just got hit by A friggin ghost cruise liner, and when I was falling backwards, for some inexplicable reason I was explode my pants ANGRY so I punched the bed on my way down. So, if what went away when I switched my dose time badly wasnt MAOI, It was instead more likely me not getting my GABA receptors potentiated anymore. That's Parnate thing! That would mean that I'm not doomed to have everything that helps quit out on me. uhem.. yea.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

As mentioned in private, you mess with sleep that hardcore don't expect any drug to save you from it. Fix your circadian rhythm and your brain will start producing nts properly again at proper times and lower cortisol/epinephrine output.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> As mentioned in private, you mess with sleep that hardcore don't expect any drug to save you from it. Fix your circadian rhythm and your brain will start producing nts properly again at proper times and lower cortisol/epinephrine output.


you like a drug, baby! you fix my sleep every night - mmmmmmhhhmmmmmm <3


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Figured I'd update.. Day 22 on 30mg/Day 5 since sleep schedule correction. Stuff is different now. I don't get BP spikes of over 200 anymore. Highest it goes is like 190 now, which is a pretty huge difference versus the constant 220-230 systolic I used to get. I'm thinking that's because when I started 30mg the first time, I had no MAOI, which means less NE and DA to balance out the stim effect. This time I probably do, which also explains why, while I don't feel great, I do feel a lot better than the first days when I originally started 30mg. Although, I think I lost my GABA receptor modulation in the schedule change, cause I keep getting withdrawal effects and feel like a flying turd. Since it took 8-9 days for me to feel good when I started it the first time, I'm expecting it to take at least that much time again. Today is day 4 since getting back to 6AM, so I'm still pretty solid.

Since the BP spike is a lot lower, it only makes me mildly tired, but doesn't knock me out like it used to. I'll just be on 30mg till Dec. 30, which is a month after I got back to taking it at 6AM.

I don't know what my deal is. I feel really bad today. UGHH. And then school is all jacked up again this year, so I'll be 3 and a half years behind if Parnate works and I re-enroll. I don't even care about any of this junk right now except Parnate. I know it's just my brain making everything seem so hopeless and depressing, but I can't help it when the meds aren't working

Oh, and even though I've been taking 30mg at 6AM consistently for 5 days already, I still get those slit second moments of weird head reset feeling every now and then, but a lot lighter than when I was in actual withdrawal.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I know I said december 30, but I'm starting 40mg today. December 6. That's about 25 days on 30mg so far? The only reason the wait is suppose to be 30 days is cause of MAOI anywho, and I feel bad more likely due to something else. I get that weird phased feeling a lot when I try exercising, but it's not my blood pressure. I'm really broken up there in my melon


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Whatta ya know? The weird withdrawal effects are all gone, and I feel way less depressed now too. I just don't get how I was getting withdrawal on 30mg, when that WAS still the highest dose I had taken.. My take is that my sleep schedule still wasn't consistent like when it was working on 30mg the first time. That really could've thrown my GABA receptors off


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

does parnate work because it is a MAOI or does it work because it's an amphetamine?


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

swim said:


> does parnate work because it is a MAOI or does it work because it's an amphetamine?


Both.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> Whatta ya know? The weird withdrawal effects are all gone, and I feel way less depressed now too. I just don't get how I was getting withdrawal on 30mg, when that WAS still the highest dose I had taken.. My take is that my sleep schedule still wasn't consistent like when it was working on 30mg the first time. That really could've thrown my GABA receptors off


Shhhhh... stop talking about Gaba or receptors, just take your medicine like a good boy and that's it. You think too much about that stuff and it makes no sense because chances are you are wrong when you try to get into the science of why things are happening. Accept that these are complexities we will never understand.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I can't stop worrying about that schedule change like 2 weeks ago and why things didn't go back to normal even a week after I changed it back.. I really need some advice right now.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

You have Parnate witch have a fast halvlife, and you have the MAO-i effect...

At 30mg i dont know if you are touching the MAO-i effect, 

On whitdrawl feelings, i popped them rooming around from 30-80mg... i went down from 60 to 20 in a week then stoped... The Stim effect went away, the MAO is there for 2-6weeks...


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I don't remember if this was before or after the schedule change, but lately, after taking parnate, instead of having a huge BP spike, my BP can be more or less normal, but my pulse will start to go very high. It feels exactly like having high blood pressure unless I bother to feel my pulse. Is this normal?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> I don't remember if this was before or after the schedule change, but lately, after taking parnate, instead of having a huge BP spike, my BP can be more or less normal, but my pulse will start to go very high. It feels exactly like having high blood pressure unless I bother to feel my pulse. Is this normal?


that depends how you take it, but i normaly had higher BP when sitting or lying then when standing up. When standing i had lower BP but higher pulse... That was somewhat between 40-60mg...


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

No, I mean BP of 120/80 and pulse of 130+


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> No, I mean BP of 120/80 and pulse of 130+


Don't worry too much about the pulse. Mine still goes high after taking it even though bp is normal. Much lower than I began treatment though. Consider my mom used to have a normal pulse of 100 for years. Only recently has it gone down for her.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Does anyone know what happened to Jawi? He used to post like every day and now I haven't seen anything for weeks.. Hope he's okay :/


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

hworth said:


> Does anyone know what happened to Jawi? He used to post like every day and now I haven't seen anything for weeks.. Hope he's okay :/


His Parnate kicked in and is living it up


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

His facebook page is gone.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

ChopSuey said:


> His facebook page is gone.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Today's my second day on 50mg, and I just can't see a future for myself right now. I constantly still get overwhelmed by depression, can't meet people from having too much anxiety, and I can't even brain anymore. I have the dumb.

Whenever I see groups of people being all laughy and chipper, it literally freaks me out. It seems so unreal that anyone can be that naturally happy. I hate my brain

Umm.. Yea.. I was deleting my Facebook since the email is outdated, and all my "friends" have gotten pretty sick of my bawling. I'd be too. I think topify reactivated it again, so yea. Sucks.

I might start posting more again. Maybe? You guys don't hate me for why I hate me, do you?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jawi96 said:


> Today's my second day on 50mg, and I just can't see a future for myself right now. I constantly still get overwhelmed by depression, can't meet people from having too much anxiety, and I can't even brain anymore. I have the dumb.
> 
> Whenever I see groups of people being all laughy and chipper, it literally freaks me out. It seems so unreal that anyone can be that naturally happy. I hate my brain
> 
> ...


If it's making you worse then maybe Parnate isn't for you ?
Parnate didn't do anything for me either 
Nobody hates you either, we all in this **** together


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> I might start posting more again. Maybe? You guys don't hate me for why I hate me, do you?


I hate you for a completely different reason. You keep worrying about braining cleverly when it's so apparent that you already do. If you come across even 10% as witty in real life as you do online then you're envied by your dad, your dog and everyone. Now start posting again you nincompoop, and stop worrying about how you're perceived. You've been sorely missed.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

GiftofGABA said:


> I hate you for a completely different reason. You keep worrying about braining cleverly when it's so apparent that you already do. If you come across even 10% as witty in real life as you do online then you're envied by your dad, your dog and everyone. Now start posting again you nincompoop, and stop worrying about how you're perceived. You've been sorely missed.


Thanks, mans. I love you so much, I wanna take you behind the bleachers and get you pregnant.

Speaking of me on drugs.., I've been considering restarting Parnate. Ever since that schedule change on 30mg, parnate's just hasn't been kinky anymore. It's really weird. No more orthostatic hypotension, no more low blood pressure, no more BP spikes, and no more dame swooning partial remission. You think restarting's a good idea?


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

Let me preface this by informing you that I'm not currently ovulating and asking what happened the last two days. You said you just upped to 50mg? So why did you stop it? 

I'll also mention that I'm taking Nardil and all of my mental effort has been focused purely there so even though Parnate is its butt buddy, and I look upon it as a possible secondary recourse or even an eventual augmentation to the Nardil I know very little about it at the moment. 

Judging from people's disparate experiences with the two compounds I think it's a tough call to make good inferences on one based on experiences solely with the other. In fact you are one of the few people here who's tried both. 

But you seem to be in a unique situation where you've not responded acceptably to either substance. This is rare. May I ask what your diagnosis is? Is it SA or is it a mixture of SA with something else? Any bipolar? Are you seeing a psych?

Now listen, from what I remember from your threads here, you actually did respond positively to Nardil apart from the stupefaction correct? Was that really the only negative side or was there more? I notice you lose patience with meds when they fυck up your intellect. How high did you go on Nardil and what were the effects? What was your overall experience there, because from what I remember you telling me, your main complaint was the inability to be witty on it. I think what happened is that you got seduced by kehcorpz's success with Parnate and thought, hey, this **** is also speedy=brains, hence I should do that and you dropped the Nardil prematurely. 

My instinct is to tell you that you should retry the Nardil and try it for a greater period of time, like 4 months. Go to 75mg at least and just be patient with the cognitive sides. If they persist then look to augment that with something. In the meantime, finish your trial with Parnate to determine if it could ultimately work. If you're going to abandon Parnate then, due to its horrific sides you absolutely MUST know if it's not for you, so you don't have to put up with going on it anew ever again and deal with all that crap all over. You must complete your trial with it and put up with all the ****ty sides. If you have absolutely ruled out Parnate then there will never be any temptation to return to it and you can truly move on. This is the way to do it.

And Jawi, you're only sixteen, do you realize how ahead of the game you are? Experimenting with MAOIs at your age already? This is mindblowingly rare. Think along these lines, and this is coming from a 30 something old fart, if you can solve this by the time you're 20, man you will have such a life. Just be patient, be diligent and find the correct combination of meds slowly but surely by ruling out the crap. You will do well. You already are. Plus, you're Jawi.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

GiftofGABA said:


> Let me preface this by informing you that I'm not currently ovulating and asking what happened the last two days. You said you just upped to 50mg? So why did you stop it?
> 
> I'll also mention that I'm taking Nardil and all of my mental effort has been focused purely there so even though Parnate is its butt buddy, and I look upon it as a possible secondary recourse or even an eventual augmentation to the Nardil I know very little about it at the moment.
> 
> ...


My last Nardil trial was for 5 months and I went as high as 120mg for over a week until it stopped helping, so side effects were never a concern for me. My best dose on Nardil was 105mg, but whenever I'd feel even partially remissed, I'd also start rembering to forget everything. Also, it feels like an artificial happiness. Not something I want for the rest of my life. Parnate was almost perfect though. Atleast up until I did that schedule change thing. I want to use parnate cause it already worked. Something about it is exactly what my brain needs, but it's different now. It's like I'm popping in blanks.

Also, my birthday was last November. I'm 17 now, like hworth, except he still has his funny..


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey Jawi, I hope I didn't come across as condescending. 

So you are done with Nardil then? I think I know what you mean about the artificial happiness. Did you notice that music seemed a bit dull? My experience so far with Nardil is that there is a sensory reconfiguration. Taste for instance, is intensely amplified while sound is dampened.

The thing about your Parnate experience that I'm compelled to mention is that one can have manic episodes on ADs (which I'm sure you're aware of). I mean, how long was it really good for? I really do get the impression that you're looking for a speedy effect and when the Parnate pooped out on you, you grew despondent because of the unavailability of its psychic energy. Do you think you could find the sweet spot with Parnate with continued experimentation? If so, perhaps you could augment it with something, perhaps a stimulant. Just my thoughts.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

GiftofGABA said:


> Hey Jawi, I hope I didn't come across as condescending.
> 
> So you are done with Nardil then? I think I know what you mean about the artificial happiness. Did you notice that music seemed a bit dull? My experience so far with Nardil is that there is a sensory reconfiguration. Taste for instance, is intensely amplified while sound is dampened.
> 
> The thing about your Parnate experience that I'm compelled to mention is that one can have manic episodes on ADs (which I'm sure you're aware of). I mean, how long was it really good for? I really do get the impression that you're looking for a speedy effect and when the Parnate pooped out on you, you grew despondent because of the unavailability of its psychic energy. Do you think you could find the sweet spot with Parnate with continued experimentation? If so, perhaps you could augment it with something, perhaps a stimulant. Just my thoughts.


No, no. I just sounded like you sounded condescending. I love you, k?

I don't know how to explain the fakey happy I was getting. It was kind of like a new, empty emotion that kind of let me act happy without really feeling anything. It was basically the soy burger equivalent of emotions.

And yea, I might be looking for stimulation without even knowing it. I don't remember what it's like to feel normal. Either way, though; my Parnate isn't acting like Parnate. All my beloved side effects are gone and that's just super lame.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

It'd be cool to meet you irl Jawi and see if there's any difference about you when you feel "clever" and "dumb". Perhaps it's all in your thoughts, and you've all the time been as witty as ever? Could be something to contemplate.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

As cool as meeting you sounds, I just don't think I'm ready, anxiety wise, to meet all the other internet met underage boys you have buried under your floor boards


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

Jawi96 said:


> As cool as meeting you sounds, I just don't think I'm ready, anxiety wise, to meet all the other internet met underage boys you have buried under your floor boards


See, you've got it in you mr.wittytitty. No need for meds, you've always been top of your game, YOU just thought you weren't, and that was the problem... ;P


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I just have a "if you can't say anything at least remotely funny, then quite your damn face" philosophy. I post like 10 times more when I'm in partial or full remission cause it's just so effortless. So cake.


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## ChopSuey (Nov 5, 2012)

We all have our ups and downs in mood. Back in the days when i took amphetamine i was a forum troll, posting funny stuff on the internet and taking other people's serious conversations down a silly road was the best thing i knew. And i thought i was the funniest and wittiest human being ever to walk this earth.

Have you tried an ampethamine ever? Perhaps you're seeking a state of mind that isn't natural which is achievable by taking dopamine releasing agents?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

My problem with trying stims is that they don't last. Also, yea, in real life, a 2 year old David Shwimmer can talk circles around me. I cry when I have sex. My social life has cancer, and my social life cancer has a social life.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Guys, I'm noticing some weird Parnate juju, and I don't speak Japanese!

So, I came up with the brilliant plan of restarting Parnate, because it was was acting all super weird and would feel like nothing and I'm smart. Now, I was on 50mg 4 days ago, and for the last 3 days, I've been taking 40mg again. Now here's the weird part-Parnate's acting normal again! Well, a bit weaker than it used to be, but way, way way better than it's been ever since that schedule change I made. Orthostatic hypotension is back, bp spikes are back, low blood pressure is back, weird ****s are back, everything's back!
This is what parnate was like when I had my best partial remission on 30mg, incase yallz was wondering.

I just dont get why going back down a dose made Parnate potent again. Im getting bp spikes of over 205 systolic again (although, it used to be 230), while just four days ago at 50mg, my bp would, on a good day, peak at a whopping 135 systolic.

Any ideas why this is is, anyone?


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Jawi96 said:


> I just dont get why going back down a dose made Parnate potent again. Im getting bp spikes of over 205 systolic again (although, it used to be 230),


Does... does your doctor know about this? :blank


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Yes and no. You're dodging the real issue here, man. Besides, I'm gonna live forever, so my hypertensive crisis' are of moot importance


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

Jawi, get yourself some Doxazosin to combat those insane BP spikes. It's an alpha blocker used to treat high blood pressure unlike the carefully prescribed calcium channel blocker Nifedipine. Might be safer. Message me if you want me to send you some. I crush them up in my mouth and let 'em dissolve under my tongue for a sublingual kind of effect. Works in 15 minutes, and works well. I warded off two semi-hypertensive crises on my Nardil so far with them. 215/110. + bad headaches and abdominal discomfort.

No idea why your decrease in dose would do this for you. All I can say is that MAOIs are weird and everyone experiences them differently due to their complex modes of action. Maybe there's such a thing as too high a dose? Perhaps you've homed in on your correct level. Time will tell.

Happy for you that you're experiencing some subjectively positive feelings again. Good luck at 40mg and enjoy your weird poops.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

GiftofGABA said:


> Jawi, get yourself some Doxazosin to combat those insane BP spikes. It's an alpha blocker used to treat high blood pressure unlike the carefully prescribed calcium channel blocker Nifedipine. Might be safer. Message me if you want me to send you some. I crush them up in my mouth and let 'em dissolve under my tongue for a sublingual kind of effect. Works in 15 minutes, and works well. I warded off two semi-hypertensive crises on my Nardil so far with them. 215/110. + bad headaches and abdominal discomfort.
> 
> No idea why your decrease in dose would do this for you. All I can say is that MAOIs are weird and everyone experiences them differently due to their complex modes of action. Maybe there's such a thing as too high a dose? Perhaps you've homed in on your correct level.
> 
> Happy for you that you're experiencing some subjectively positive feelings again. Good luck and enjoy your weird poops.


Thanks, but straight up posture usually does it for me. I haven't died once so far.


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## GiftofGABA (Oct 2, 2013)

Problem is you could get surprised one day and eat the wrong thing or ill-time your dose. But I'm glad you enjoy your high BP. It can be addictive.


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## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

Wiki claims the stuff is irreversible. If you dropped down a dose, and your bouncing around, then isn't that basically a rebound of sorts?

I'm a total layman with your condition, and the tech jargon on this, but yeah, cocaine basically shuts down or anesthetizes parts of the brain, and that gets everything else working in overdrive.

So maybe whatever you have left, is no longer capable of fighting back against the higher doses, and now that you've dropped down, your reserves have a little bit left to fight back. If that's fundamental to the point of being insulting, by all means, whoops.

You are fighting chronic post bipolar depression?

There is no reference on this statement, but yeah, it sounds like you've been through a lot and your doctor is playing by the books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranylcypromine



> *Clinical use*
> 
> Tranylcypromine is indicated primarily for the treatment of major depressive disorder, and can also be used in the management of various mood and anxiety disorders, typically as a *last resort* after conventional antidepressants have been tried without success.


Why not lower the dose a little more? That's what what I would do. Good exercise for the brain maybe?



> Tranylcypromine has shown substantial effectiveness in treatment-resistant depression, with,[10][11] or, at *unusually high dosages*, without,[12] lithium. However, at normal dosages, tranylcypromine proved no more effective than combination venlafaxine and mirtazapine in treatment-resistant depression, and was associated with worse side effects.[13]


Or you know, maybe it'd up the dose. I don't know exactly what you are trying to do.

Maybe the last thing you want to do is allow your body to fight back and get stronger in some areas. You know stop flexing certain muscles. Maybe it's best to go all in and kill off whatever they think is a last resort option.

Are you a full bore manic? Or an insomniac?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

GiftofGABA said:


> Problem is you could get surprised one day and eat the wrong thing or ill-time your dose. But I'm glad you enjoy your high BP. It can be addictive.


Naws man. Naws. I don't enjoy it at all. I have to stand straight up for 3 hours thinking of happy butterflies, and toy land. I just like that when I get bp spikes, its usually a good sign for having partial remission


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## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

sarcastic insomniac? or moderately functioning giggle manic?

hypertensive, solemn, insomniac?

I'm only half way through your thread, but I get the impression you are indeed a hypertensive, solemn, insomniac.

I read about Nardil, that major depressive order? It sounds to me like your system is flooded with serotonin, melatonin, norepinephrine, epinephrine, and dopamine.

You will probably think I am joking, but yeah, try the aniractam mentioned in that other thread.

You know, it might relieve the hyper tension and work to dig you out of depression, however I honestly have no idea if you will take a hit to performance anywhere else.

I am no doctor or neurosurgeon.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12070527



> These are models of clinical disorders or symptoms that may include personality disorders, anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress disorder, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, autism, negative symptoms of schizophrenia, and sleep disorders. At present, there is no convincing evidence that promising effects of aniracetam in the animal models will guarantee its clinical efficacy. It is conceivable, however, that clinical trials will demonstrate beneficial effects of aniracetam in the above listed disease states.


Are you hypotensive and overweight? I can't find anything on vasodilation and aniracetam, but personally it might have that effect. If you aren't overweight with dangerously low blood pressure, yeah, I'd give the aniractam a go.

Do you have Hypothyroidism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothyroidism

Eat some seaweed.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

MrKappa said:


> Wiki claims the stuff is irreversible. If you dropped down a dose, and your bouncing around, then isn't that basically a rebound of sorts?
> 
> I'm a total layman with your condition, and the tech jargon on this, but yeah, cocaine basically shuts down or anesthetizes parts of the brain, and that gets everything else working in overdrive.
> 
> ...


Nope. Not bipolar. I dont have good days. Also, I was on 40 already before and only now that im going back to it from 50 is when it's having any noticeable kick. That's why it's weird.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Just a total shot in the dark from a derpy derp with Nardil insomnia goin on but maybe this is halfway decent 'evidence' from your better reaction to 40mg rather than 50mg that you just naturally have lower levels of MAO-A because of the mao genotype and were goin overkill with 50? I'm not 100% how Parnate is metabolized but i know Nardil is metabolized primarily through MAO itself so I assume it would be much harder to kill off way too much MAO and then cause dopamine levels to decrease dramatically the way it's sometimes speculated to happen if you go overboard..? Either way that's totally t*ts you're getting good results again


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay. There seems to be some confusion as to why this is confusing, so I'll just write it down in chronological order for your reading pleasure (but not to much pleasure!)

Week 0.5 - 10mg (working normal)
Week 1- 20mg (working normal)
Weeks 2 to 5- 30mg (working normal but stopped entirely half way after evil schedule alteration)
Weeks 6 to 10 - 40mg (no effect whatsoever)
Week 10.5 - 50mg (nothing. Nada. Zilch)
(now) Week 11 - back to 40mg (suddenly-almost normal, working Parnate's back!)


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

My girlfriend of 6 months -my one stable contact, who's been with me for half of my Nardil trial, and my entire time on Parnate - just told me she feels jealous of other couples because we can't have normal dates out in public cause I'm always too anxious and depressed. Guess this means I better start thinking up names for the 50 sweater wearing cats im gonna die alone with


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## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

So, now I'm understanding these things. You guys are taking hydrazines. Rocket Fuels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

Anyways, I knew this one kid who said to me once after he sold a french squeegee kid some bunk. He said, "Anything that is toxic, will get you high". That's the truth.

That being said, many foods and stuff are toxic, and some heavy metals which are basically poisonous have therapeutic effect. Like Lithium Salts. I am no chemistry major.

It sounds as if you are taking a "rocket fuel" derivative, and that is throwing your system into hyper drive, with the possibility that you may be sacrificing your nervous system, as a result.

I am still learning, but yeah does sound like it accounts for the low blood pressure? An overall decrease in nervous system function? Maybe it is something like oxygen deprivation somewhere in the system, or maybe a mineral or vitamin deficientcy, or worse case a deterioration of the system. You know, like what happens to gums when there is a lack vitamin C, scurvy, and mineral vitamin supplementation is the best way to get the body repairing itself on it's own terms.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

MrKappa said:


> So, now I'm understanding these things. You guys are taking hydrazines. Rocket Fuels.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine
> 
> ...


Parnate isnt s hydrazine


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## gilmourr (Nov 17, 2011)

MrKappa said:


> So, now I'm understanding these things. You guys are taking hydrazines. Rocket Fuels.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine
> 
> ...


Anything is toxic in high enough doses--even water. The point is to not overdose on amounts that are considerably safe. Phenelzine isn't the easiest drug on the liver (you were talking about hydrazines and parnate isn't one) but it still isn't toxic within boundaries.

The "rocket fuel" isn't throwing your body into hyperdrive, its the excessive amounts of norepinephrine that are released following the inhibition of MAO-A and MAO-B enzymes. Phenylethamine and norepinephrine are potent stimulants (Nardil releases PEH, not sure about parnate).

Taking a MAO inhibitor will not sacrifice your CNS unless you're bipolar or schizophrenic since they already have higher dopamine and norepinephrine levels which can lead to excitotoxicity. Even then, it usually is reversible unless you kill yourself from going manic.

His 40 mg dose of parnate is fine.


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## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

Any thoughts on saving the nervous system?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

MrKappa said:


> Any thoughts on saving the nervous system?


Taking supplements against Oxidative stress maybe.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Well, it's been about a week since Kehcorpz last spit in my mouth for deciding to restart Parnate, yet still no follow up to my reply from him. He probably means well.

I still don't get him though. I only did it because everything was all so crazy after the schedule change ye ol' yore. I didn't even have any withdrawal going down doses for the restart. Doesn't THAT degree of FUBAR atleast make a restart not a completely cringe worthily bad decision?


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Well, it's been about a week since Kehcorpz last spit in my mouth for deciding to restart Parnate, yet still no follow up to my reply from him. He probably means well.
> 
> I still don't get him though. I only did it because everything was all so crazy after the schedule change ye ol' yore. I didn't even have any withdrawal going down doses for the restart. Doesn't THAT degree of FUBAR atleast make a restart not a completely cringe worthily bad decision?


I think it was probably for the best! Especially since you've got hypotension back.. Maybe he just doesn't get where you're coming from since he never had to ***** with it like that

I learned a while back that you can't always duplicate a person's dosages/dosing and expect the same results as them since everyone's different; case in point: tried going from 60mg Nardil which I'm doing good on to 45 + Lyrica like Mr. T did at one point and it ended up making me extremely depressed/suicidal. You just gotta do what works for you (within reason of course, don't start shooting meth and saying I told you it was a good idea)


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks. It was working better when I started to go down, but im completely off it now and have February late something whatever marked for restarting. I remember gillman mentioned that it's suppoze to be pretty rare for a med that works for someone to not work on a separate trial or something like that, so i should be good.

Oh, and heres a weird thing that seems.to happen whenever I'm off meds now, just like my nardil washout. I get really phobic of everything. So far, that includes drains, everything behind me, really vast things, like the ocean, or the sky, and not anybody's peen, so don't even bother. Umm.. I also have this weird serial killer phobia right now. I wonder if everyone gets a serial killer phobia right before they get serial killed..? You'd never know.. This isn't helping at all


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Maybe if youre the black guy, partying with a bunch of white people at a remote location :afr


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

Jawi96 said:


> Thanks. It was working better when I started to go down, but im completely off it now and have February late something whatever marked for restarting. I remember gillman mentioned that it's suppoze to be pretty rare for a med that works for someone to not work on a separate trial or something like that, so i should be good.
> 
> Oh, and heres a weird thing that seems.to happen whenever I'm off meds now, just like my nardil washout. I get really phobic of everything. So far, that includes drains, everything behind me, really vast things, like the ocean, or the sky, and not anybody's peen, so don't even bother. Umm.. I also have this weird serial killer phobia right now. I wonder if everyone gets a serial killer phobia right before they get serial killed..? You'd never know.. This isn't helping at all


why are u restarting?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Ahhh! Mr t is on my thread!! Somebody pinch me! LOWER.

When I was on 30mg, I did this schedule changey thingy, and after that, parnate stopped working. Like, in every way. Partial remission was gone, bp spikes were gone, low blood pressure was gone, orthostatic hypotension also gone, weird ****s and fappathons:gone. Even the withdrawal effects which were massivr during the schedule change were gone. This went on up until I hit 50mg, then I decided to restart. Hi, mr mr t!


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Off Parnate Parnate Update: Bored. Anyone wanna talk? I'm probably really bad at it.




























Bonus points: Reverse image search these to find me on Facebook! (!!Shameless self-promotion!!)


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

nice last pic.Took a while before i saw it


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

-For any prospect ladies: Yes. That is MY hand.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> -For any prospect ladies: Yes. That is MY hand.


Ohh yeah like thats gonna work...  altough you here about these guys in prison who get tons of letters from females.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

watertouch said:


> Ohh yeah like thats gonna work...  altough you here about these guys in prison who get tons of letters from females.


Hmm.. You don't say?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Hey so, apparently GSK Parnate is suppose to look like







<--This (Orange logo)

Here's the whole 360 of one of mine (No Orange logo). Think any of you verify if it's legit?


























































Some things and other things: I broke a pill open, so verifying should be cake/The pills actually look less pink, and more red than they do here/I don't know why they have an acne problem/No, they are not magnetized. I checked.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Cut one of mine open kinda locked the same, Mercury Pharma former Goldshield..

But they get kinda, like the bind up,crystalic if you chew them. But i dont think the coating is there to protect if from being absord in the stomach.


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## BudBrownies (May 4, 2013)

do you guys ever think dying would be a lot easyier?

I sometimes, do. Never would it or so I tell myself.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Yo Jawi, you got some fine *** lookin thumbs. Mmm mmmmm


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Mine is the GSK Parnate. 

I used to get some kind of generic with a "K" on it, and I think I liked it more for some reason. Oh well, probably my imagination.

Try splitting in quarters and take sublingually. Incredibly gross, almost caustic, but it kicks in fast. Good substitute for prn benzo use.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I'm gonna go chew a Parnate and see if I get Parnate crystals now.

Edit: I don't know about this.. They smell kind of funky.

Newer Edit: Now thoroughly regretting having done that. I don't even know what I expected.. I can't really tell crystally things from the original pill when I'm chewing them; not that I would know this offhand.. As for the part I spit out (The whole thing), It just looked like wet Parnate. Then kinda looked marshmallowy(?), and now it's umm.. I'm actually just gonna clean this up.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

My Parnate to Parnate washout is already at like 13 days.. That's longer than the washout I gave to Nardil, which takes even longer to switch back to default. All the symptoms (Constant vivid nightmares, Occasional thoughts, trace happiness, etc.) I had right after hitting 0 mg are already gone, so I'm thinking everything Parnate should be out of me by now.. With the goal of a clean restart in mind, 13 days is enough time, right? Guys? Right, guys?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Jawi are you gonna go slow or fast when you start again?


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

ohh and how you feel? When i did a 2month break before the new year, specially when MAO came back i felt like crap.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Strangely not as bad as the last time I was completely off meds. I still get 'melancholic' at least once a day, but it's never too bad anymore. I know. I am a pu*sy 

I'll be doing stuff pretty much the same, only minus the schedule change that I so loathe!

1 week for 10mg and another for 20mg, then a month for each dose 30mg and up.

Soo.. do you think 13 days is/was enough?


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## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Constant vivid nightmares


Parnate gives you those or the Nardil?

I'd consider that an excellent sign of brain health, and perhaps a poor sign of stimulus in.

What goes in the brain, gets processed out... You watch a lot of TV?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

MrKappa said:


> Parnate gives you those or the Nardil?
> 
> I'd consider that an excellent sign of brain health, and perhaps a poor sign of stimulus in.
> 
> What goes in the brain, gets processed out... You watch a lot of TV?


My brain is swoon. Oh, umm.. both. Only, only when I discontinue them, and only during the recent trials.

No, I don't watch a lot of TV. I don't watch a lot of anything, cause of how anhedonic I've been since late November.. I have yet to finish Breaking Bad. I saw Robocop today!


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## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

I see so it's serotonin rebound or something. Yeah, I can't for the life of me watch movies anymore. I simply don't have the patience. It's like reading books. I used to be able to focus on a book if I found one I liked, but now I can't find any movies that are interesting to me. The big blockbusters almost terrify me.


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

I'm doubtful of how you might have came to that conclusion from what I said.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Jawi96 said:


> Soo.. do you think 13 days is/was enough?


Sorry no idea.


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

Yeah go for it man! 13 days is plenty I'd say. The standard rule is 2 weeks and you're only 24hours away from that so whatever:boogie


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Oh, and in case I need to do the salt thing again, do any of you what type works best (mainly iodized vs non-iodized)?


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

hworth said:


> Yeah go for it man! 13 days is plenty I'd say. The standard rule is 2 weeks and you're only 24hours away from that so whatever:boogie


Also, you've gotta stop being so nice to me when I suck. It raises many unnerving questions of the philosophical nature for me


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## Jawi96 (May 15, 2012)

Okay, I'll be taking my first second (shuut UP!) Parnate tomorrow! In 8 hours and 2 minutes!

I've also uncovered something most disturbing.. I decided to open a new bottle for this new trial, and - to my horror.. - The pills looked triple perfect! What's super messed up here is that, the last batch I was taking had all those weird boils, and we're we're generally really ugly.


I started feeling bad around 18-27 days after I started last time, so I wasn't yet on the ugly bottle when things got weird. That means the ugly batch probably had nothing to do with why my last trial died, but that doesn't excuse it's profound ugliness..


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## hworth (Mar 31, 2013)

So what's up breh.. doin good on the Parn so far?


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