# half of all college grads are unemployed or working in fast food



## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

> WASHINGTON (AP) - The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.
> 
> A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.
> 
> ...


http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/1..._host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=us&.lang=en-us


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Capitalism and poverty = higher crime rates.


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

I've read this same article the last 4 or 5 years, only the year has changed. It's not the economy that is failing graduates, it's the schools. A college degree no longer guarantees you a job and high schools and universities need to stop putting that idea into kids heads. All they're doing is creating a generation of self-entitled grads who inevitably become depressed and unmotivated once they discover that fact and end up working the same job they were working in high school.

Unless you're in the top 10-20% in the brains department, you shouldn't be getting a degree when you don't know what you're going to do with it. By the time you decide on a path, you will be competing against people who have been targeting that path for years.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Knowbody said:


> Capitalism and poverty = higher crime rates.


Capitalism and GREED = high crime rate

This is why I ended up with a degree in Computer Science. I really wanted to pursue a degree in Meterology/Atmospheric Science, but after seeing what happened on the Weather Channel (my dream job), I am glad I did not go into it.

The only mistake I made was not co-op'ing. It was 10 months after graduation before I landed my first job (w/NASA in Ohio, but turned it down due to distance and depression). I actually had a dream that I would end up face down in Lake Erie.

The building I would have worked in was eventually torn down to allow for expansion of Cleveland-Hopkins Airport. It was weird having planes fly over the building every 20 minutes.

Six interviews later, I got my job (another contract position). Then, 2001 happened and I was laid off in 2002....unemployed for two years.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Anybody here ever considered selling or transporting illegal drugs?

don't name any names and start your reply off with "a friend of mine...." to be safe.

:afr


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Knowbody said:


> Anybody here ever considered selling or transporting illegal drugs?
> 
> don't name any names and start your reply off with "a friend of mine...." to be safe.
> 
> :afr


 John DeLorean. :roll


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## Jaenette (Apr 6, 2012)

"While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder"

This is just dead wrong to me. Yes, there is high need for health fields, I will admit that. However, I have a degree in a science field and it is still HARD to find a job. I thought my degree was specialized enough where I wouldn't have much competition....I was wrong. It's just rough for everyone pretty much. Those fields that are opening up are highly competitive...like nursing or working at a pharmacy. There are literally hundreds of applicants per job. How do you compete with that?!


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## copper (Nov 10, 2003)

Jaenette said:


> "While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder"
> 
> This is just dead wrong to me. Yes, there is high need for health fields, I will admit that. However, I have a degree in a science field and it is still HARD to find a job. I thought my degree was specialized enough where I wouldn't have much competition....I was wrong. It's just rough for everyone pretty much. Those fields that are opening up are highly competitive...like nursing or working at a pharmacy. There are literally hundreds of applicants per job. How do you compete with that?!


The Human Services field is also very competitive. I went to interviews that had 100 people being interviewed and this was for a social worker for a small town nursing home. This is why I don't dare quit my job now. Been working at a reasonable paying job the last 15 years. We have a few direct care staff working in our residential homes with masters degree wanting to get a job at the center so they can make more money and won't have to wipe butts anymore, but no one will leave to make room for them.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

I know this first hand, unfortunately. Combined with my mental issues, living at a middle class level during my lifetime isn't even something I'm considering. I'm just hoping to live my life at a high-poverty level.

Unless you're going to college for science, math, or engineering, a college degree means _*N-O-T-H-I-N-G*_. Lots of people in my generation are learning some very, very tough life lessons.....the hard way.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.pdf

Another article here.


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## Black And Mild (Apr 11, 2011)

I always chuckle when I hear somebody say they are working towards some non specialized degree, like art or biology, and they have no plans to pursue any further education after getting the degree.


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## Black And Mild (Apr 11, 2011)

ivankaramazov said:


> I've read this same article the last 4 or 5 years, only the year has changed. It's not the economy that is failing graduates, it's the schools. * A college degree no longer guarantees you a job and high schools and universities need to stop putting that idea into kids heads.* All they're doing is creating a generation of self-entitled grads who inevitably become depressed and unmotivated once they discover that fact and end up working the same job they were working in high school.
> 
> Unless you're in the top 10-20% in the brains department, you shouldn't be getting a degree when you don't know what you're going to do with it. By the time you decide on a path, you will be competing against people who have been targeting that path for years.


That times 20

It used to upset me a little when I was in high school and teachers used to preach that getting a college degree, no matter what it was, would get you a job. At the same time, they acted as if you were 100% doomed if you don't go to college


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

ivankaramazov said:


> A college degree no longer guarantees you a job and high schools and universities need to stop putting that idea into kids heads.


I agree 100%. We need schools to teach them more about how our ****ing economy works, and how the ****ing job market works. We need to teach them that you may be special to mommy and daddy, but to the rest of the world you are just a product in that market.



> All they're doing is creating a generation of self-entitled grads who inevitably become depressed and unmotivated once they discover that fact and end up working the same job they were working in high school.


I hate it so much when adults say our generation has an entitlement complex. I just want to scream, "Well, that's because you *RAISED US THAT WAY*". We didn't just hear that a college degree guaranteed you a high-paying job, but that if you *DIDN'T* get a degree, you were ****ed to flipping burgers forever. So now that we college grads have graduated, can't find a job, and have five or six figures worth of debt, it's no ****ing wonder we college grads have such an "entitlement complex". We feel that way because, quite frankly, we feel like we've been outright lied to. No wonder so many of us are just saying "**** it all".

You reap what you ****ing sow. You sow wheat, you reap wheat. You sow ****, you reap ****. You're reaping the harvest you planted and nurtured over the past two decades.

(And just so you know, I'm just venting my frustration, not yelling at *you* ivan  )



> *Unless you're in the top 10-20% in the brains department, you shouldn't be getting a degree when you don't know what you're going to do with it.*


I'm easily in that demographic, and even that doesn't matter worth ****.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Knowbody said:


> Anybody here ever considered selling or transporting illegal drugs?
> 
> don't name any names and start your reply off with "a friend of mine...." to be safe.
> 
> :afr


Honestly? Yes, I have considered that. Because, as you can see in my rant above, I feel like my legit choices are nil. But I'm not going to do it, because I'd rather not go to prison and get raped.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

The issue is that colleges should reduce in size and students if the graduates can't find positions. However, with student loans and parents funding college, the schools are getting rich, modernizing, and expanding instead of focusing on teaching, practical knowledge, and making sure employers can easily find hard working and smart employees.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

I think lots of undergrads don't realize the importance of getting experience in your field while you are at school. Even if it's through volunteering. Lots of places for even starting positions now was a degree + two years experience or something. Getting a degree by itself is no longer enough. You have to do both at the same time to get your foot in the door.


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## AceRimmer (Nov 12, 2008)

^^^ Unless you're coming out of an elite school where you can major in knitting and still land a job because of your alma mater's name, you need to get experience in your field even if you have to delay graduating. Once you're out of school, the doors start closing really quickly.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Perfectionist said:


> I think lots of undergrads don't realize the importance of getting experience in your field while you are at school. Even if it's through volunteering. Lots of places for even starting positions now was a degree + two years experience or something. Getting a degree by itself is no longer enough. You have to do both at the same time to get your foot in the door.


But how do you volunteer while in school? I can barely handle 15 units while doing nothing. I think my GPA would go to hell if I started volunteering every week.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

fffffffffffff yes, this makes me feel all the more grateful, as a college grad with a job!

God...is...great...seriously I prayed to God and poured my heart out, and I got a job a few weeks later....He works miracles..

White collar jobs > Blue collar jobs



Perfectionist said:


> I think lots of undergrads don't realize the importance of getting experience in your field while you are at school.


That is seriously like the wisest piece of advice I could give to any person in college right now. If you're not either working during the summer, doing an internship or have a part time job slightly related to your major >> YOU ARE SCREWED and you best pick up something at LEAST in junior/senior year.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

komorikun said:


> But how do you volunteer while in school? I can barely handle 15 units while doing nothing. I think my GPA would go to hell if I started volunteering every week.


A GPA of 4.0 means very little today if it's all you have on a resume. In my opinion it's worth the time to work/volunteer in your major even if you sacrifice some studying time. Employers don't care if you can memorize really well. That's not really important in most jobs. Who are they going to take? The B student who already knows half the jobs necessary to fill the position, or the A student who's never worked in the field?

Personally, I took full time studies and worked in a research laboratory part time and volunteered for a couple school positions with nice resume words like "Coach" and "Leader" in the title. The job and volunteer help WAY more in interviews - when they ask you questions about challenges you faced or moments where you worked on a team what are you going to say? "Well I had a real challenge in Biology 101 memorizing all those terms. I studied with a couple people for English 105 so that was a team." Experience >>>>> GPA. Only if you plan on going to grad school may it be the other way around. Even to get in to grad school, there are similar interviews and they ask for non academic references, so you need experience to get those too.



AceRimmer said:


> you need to get experience in your field even if you have to delay graduating. Once you're out of school, the doors start closing really quickly.


This. Delay graduating if needbe. Who cares if you take that extra year to finish with a stellar resume, when all the other speedy undergrads are just waiting tables with no job prospects?


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Perfectionist said:


> I think lots of undergrads don't realize the importance of getting experience in your field while you are at school. Even if it's through volunteering. Lots of places for even starting positions now was a degree + two years experience or something. Getting a degree by itself is no longer enough. You have to do both at the same time to get your foot in the door.


I learned this lesson....too late


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

GPA is more important in high school than it is in college.

It's the university admissions that care about the 3.92's or 4.10's or 2.99's

Employers just care to see that you graduated without anything dramatically low.

Of course there are some firms out there that only hire from ivy leagues with top GPAs, so it all depends what you are aiming for and if you are content with basic entry level (after college) jobs.


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## Deadguy (Aug 19, 2011)

The popularity of college has made the Bachelor's Degree the equivalent of what a high school diploma was to someone 40 years ago. You really have to gave a postgraduate degree mixed in with some light work experience in order to be a desirable candidate for a decent paying job. 

The only light at the end of the tunnel is the fact that the Baby Boomers are reaching retirement age which could lead to job openings for recent college grads in the near future. 

In the meantime, I'm thankful I've had a decent paying job for the past six years. After college, I became a welder for two years before getting laid off. This led me to pursue a post graduate degree, which helped me get my current job.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Yeah, it really sucks... ****ing global economy, ****ing capitalist greed.

All that hard work, nothing. All that money wasted.

If normal people can't get it going, what chance do I have?


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

The job market is absolutely brutal for young people. It is for everyone, but young people especially. People in their 30s and 40s getting laid off means that people fresh out of school need to compete with people with years more experience. 

I wish there were some magic bullet advice, but when there's not enough jobs someone has to do **** work or go unemployed until the economy picks up. Really, giving people effective job hunting advice just means someone else doesn't get hired. It's horrible, but I guess not every generation gets to graduate in 1991. We just to need to tough it out and do better for the next generation.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Witan said:


> Honestly? Yes, I have considered that. Because, as you can see in my rant above, I feel like my legit choices are nil. But I'm not going to do it, because I'd rather not go to prison and get raped.


I know a girl that got paid 500 thousand dollars just for driving a few miles from point A to point B with illegal drugs in her possession. Transporting seems alot less dangerous than selling it yourself. Just hope to god you don't get pulled over.


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## Diacetylmorphine (Mar 9, 2011)

This is why I decided to transfer to a more _practical _degree, I'd be heading nowhere with my previous degree.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

this really discourages me from staying in university. I may be doing well but I still don't have a clue what I want to do for a living. I excel in bio and psych but there's no way in hell I'm going into medicine or law... I mine as well study something practical like computers.


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## Jaenette (Apr 6, 2012)

Deadguy said:


> The only light at the end of the tunnel is the fact that the Baby Boomers are reaching retirement age which could lead to job openings for recent college grads in the near future.


Retire Baby Boomers....Retire!!! lol
j/k.....but not really


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## ivankaramazov (Aug 22, 2009)

Black And Mild said:


> That times 20
> 
> It used to upset me a little when I was in high school and teachers used to preach that getting a college degree, no matter what it was, would get you a job. At the same time, they acted as if you were 100% doomed if you don't go to college


It should upset people. They have to say that because if it's believed then they're necessary. If it's not, well...


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## enzo (May 30, 2011)

University is a hoax and a scam. I regret wasting years there, getting in debt, and ruining my transcript. Perhaps for good. If you're not studying an _applied science_, get out. Now.

Do something technical. Go to a (vocational/community/college) school which offers programs that include internships in the final year. Get a diploma or certificate in a program that proves you know what you are doing in that field.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Knowbody said:


> I know a girl that got paid 500 thousand dollars just for driving a few miles from point A to point B with illegal drugs in her possession. Transporting seems alot less dangerous than selling it yourself. Just hope to god you don't get pulled over.


Yeah, but the problem is that she must get paid in cash, and she'd need to put that cash in the bank. She'd have to find some way to launder it, because a bank is going to get suspicious if she comes in with thousands of dollars of cold hard cash every week to deposit.

ANYWAY.....:um


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Twelve Keyz said:


> this really discourages me from staying in university. I may be doing well but I still don't have a clue what I want to do for a living. I excel in bio and psych but there's no way in hell I'm going into medicine or law... I mine as well study something practical like computers.


As hard as it is for me to say this, I have to recommend that you drop out. You can always come back later, but I would go out, get a crap job, do some volunteer work you might be interested in, and go from there.


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## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

Witan said:


> As hard as it is for me to say this, I have to recommend that you drop out. You can always come back later, but I would go out, get a crap job, do some volunteer work you might be interested in, and go from there.


why do you say that?

I agree with you because that's honestly how I felt throughout this whole year. My family is strongly against dropping out though. I keep thinking to myself... this is such a huge waste of money. But what's your take on it?

I'm actually very interested in a certain career right now, but they don't teach the required skills in any universities/colleges in my region. Plus it's very hard to make a living off of it. Am I really better off getting a "crap" job, saving up money, moving to the states, and then going after what I'm really interested in?


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Witan said:


> Yeah, but the problem is that she must get paid in cash, and she'd need to put that cash in the bank. She'd have to find some way to launder it, because a bank is going to get suspicious if she comes in with thousands of dollars of cold hard cash every week to deposit.
> 
> ANYWAY.....:um


thats what waterproof/fireproof SAFES are for :um


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## Banzai (Jun 4, 2009)

AceRimmer said:


> ^^^ Unless you're coming out of an elite school where you can major in knitting and still land a job because of your alma mater's name, you need to get experience in your field even if you have to delay graduating. Once you're out of school, the doors start closing really quickly.


I go to a good uni and I don't think my position is any different to anyone else....don't really see how saying you went to x-awesome uni and then the rest of your CV/resume blank makes a difference? Also, as others have said, if you have zero clue what you want to do afterwards then I don't think it makes much difference.


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## Silent Image (Dec 22, 2010)

Yeah. That's how it's always going to be. Only 5 of out 30 students will find success


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

This **** is so stressful seriously, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. It seems like the majority of careers require good math skills and/or good social skills and I have neither. Now it seems like going to college is pointless because you 1.) end up with a **** ton of debt and 2.) don't get hired in your field anyway. What options do I even have?



Knowbody said:


> Anybody here ever considered selling or transporting illegal drugs?
> 
> don't name any names and start your reply off with "a friend of mine...." to be safe.
> 
> :afr


I've thought about growing weed and dealing honestly but I don't even have the ****ing social skills to be a dealer lol


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Twelve Keyz said:


> why do you say that?
> 
> I agree with you because that's honestly how I felt throughout this whole year. My family is strongly against dropping out though. I keep thinking to myself... this is such a huge waste of money. But what's your take on it?
> 
> I'm actually very interested in a certain career right now, but they don't teach the required skills in any universities/colleges in my region. Plus it's very hard to make a living off of it. Am I really better off getting a "crap" job, saving up money, moving to the states, and then going after what I'm really interested in?


I mean get a crap job if you have to. If you can get something better, then by all means take that. * If you want to stay in college, absolutely do internships or volunteer work in areas you're interested in, no matter what. *I made the mistake of thinking only science, engineering, or medical students required internships to be competitive. Boy, was I wrong. If you want, maybe you could drop to being a part-time student and work?

Basically what I'm trying to say is, *whatever you decide, get experience and an unbroken work history (whether paid or volunteer work).* It's unfair, but a gap in work history, now matter what the reason is, is murder when it comes to getting a job.

All of this is coming from an American perspective, where you easily rack up five figures worth of debt to get a four-year degree. I don't know how things are in Canada.


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## Shrinking Violet (Oct 11, 2010)

I was so misguided by the education system and by my parents. I got a good degree in a technical field, but it was so hard to get a job without work experience, social skills, or contacts. It set me in a downward spiral of unemployment, extreme anxiety, and debt. A university education was completely wrong for me, and I think it's wrong for many other people.

Higher education has its place, certainly, but a bachelor's degree means very little today because so many people get them. I don't think the majority of people should go into debt to get an education. Unless you have a clear vision of what you want to do and good prospects of employment later, it's not worth it. It's good to remember that universities and colleges are businesses. They want to get people into their programs, whether there are jobs at the end of it or not.

For anyone that's planning their education now, my advice is:
- *Avoid debt*. It's evil. You'll be paying it off for years even if you get a reasonable job. Try working for a few years and saving up the money so you can pay your way through school fully or at least partially. Also, consider cheaper options like college vs. university, or distance programs.
- *Get real-world experience*. I found out the hard way that education means next to nothing unless you have experience and references. The working world is not like school at all.
- *Have a plan and a backup plan*. So many people stumble through years of higher education without any goal in mind other than "if I have an education, I'll get a good job." That's not enough. Be clear about what you want to do, and have an idea of what you will do if you aren't successful.

And one other thing to think about for women (because I wish someone had warned me): if you want to have children, going to school for 4+ years and racking up debt might make it harder. Female reproductive years don't last as long as men's.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Shrinking Violet said:


> For anyone that's planning their education now, my advice is:
> -* Avoid debt. It's evil. You'll be paying it off for years even if you get a reasonable job. Try working for a few years and saving up the money so you can pay your way through school fully or at least partially. Also, consider cheaper options like college vs. university, or distance programs.*
> - *Get real-world experience*. I found out the hard way that education means next to nothing unless you have experience and references. The working world is not like school at all.
> - *Have a plan and a backup plan*. So many people stumble through years of higher education without any goal in mind other than "if I have an education, I'll get a good job." That's not enough. Be clear about what you want to do, and have an idea of what you will do if you aren't successful.
> ...


I guess you could save some money if you live with your parents but otherwise it is extremely difficult to save money while only making minimum wage. Well, maybe if you have a job where you receive tips it might be possible. Also by working for several years for college you will lose money because your wages would be less than what you would make once you graduated. So in the long run the debt might be less than the wages lost by making less during that time you were saving up for college.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

komorikun said:


> But how do you volunteer while in school? I can barely handle 15 units while doing nothing. I think my GPA would go to hell if I started volunteering every week.


I think colleges need to get away from the 4 year model. I would have been better off trying to start a business or getting real world experience one semester. I would have liked to spent a semester volunteering overseas. I could have spent some time focusing on a big project with other students. And if it wasn't for the tuition being 'free' after 8 or 10 credits, it would have been better to focus on a fewer courses and do a better job.

Stuff that isn't in the classroom, but will help you gain perspective of how the real world works, along with something to talk about in job interviews goes a long way to proving to a prospective employer that you can help them do the job.


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## Shrinking Violet (Oct 11, 2010)

komorikun said:


> I guess you could save some money if you live with your parents but otherwise it is extremely difficult to save money while only making minimum wage. Well, maybe if you have a job where you receive tips it might be possible. Also by working for several years for college you will lose money because your wages would be less than what you would make once you graduated. So in the long run the debt might be less than the wages lost by making less during that time you were saving up for college.


Yes, there's a trade-off. I was thinking about either living with family, or else living with multiple people so your rent is low. My brother lives with some friends and only works part-time at minimum wage and still finds ways to spend lots on luxury items. My cousin rented an apartment for about $1000/mo, but there were five people living there, so it was only $200/person.

Anyway, going into debt might work for some. My main point is: don't be like me and go into debt when you have no idea what you want to do.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Jaenette said:


> "While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder"
> 
> This is just dead wrong to me. Yes, there is high need for health fields, I will admit that. However, I have a degree in a science field and it is still HARD to find a job. I thought my degree was specialized enough where I wouldn't have much competition....I was wrong. It's just rough for everyone pretty much. Those fields that are opening up are highly competitive...like nursing or working at a pharmacy. There are literally hundreds of applicants per job. How do you compete with that?!


Getting a job is the hardest thing I have ever done. It's always competitive like that. It would be better if colleges hooked you up with some kind of unpaid apprenticeship program so you couild get experience working in your field. It's really hard to get entry level jobs. Everyone wants someone who has experience.


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## kc1895 (Sep 4, 2009)

Witan said:


> Unless you're going to college for science, math, or engineering, a college degree means _*N-O-T-H-I-N-G*_. Lots of people in my generation are learning some very, very tough life lessons.....the hard way.


I would disagree. I have an interdisciplinary major called Management Science that involves Business and Economics. I also have a decent job related to my studies. For my first job, I made sure to describe in the cover letter what my studies were and how it related to the field I want to move into. Of course none of the employers I saw knew what my major was about, so I had a lot of explaining to do. It was damn hard to get a job at first, and I fell into a deep depression. But I finally started part time and worked my way up to where I am now. You have to be serious and play the game as best you can to get anywhere.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

kc1895 said:


> I would disagree. I have an interdisciplinary major called Management Science that involves Business and Economics. I also have a decent job related to my studies. For my first job, I made sure to describe in the cover letter what my studies were and how it related to the field I want to move into. Of course none of the employers I saw knew what my major was about, so I had a lot of explaining to do. It was damn hard to get a job at first, and I fell into a deep depression. But I finally started part time and worked my way up to where I am now. You have to be serious and play the game as best you can to get anywhere.


I think that your experience is more the exception than the rule. If your employer didn't know what your major was about, and you had to explain how it related to the job, then I don't think that the fact that you had a college degree put you at any advantage over, say, a high school grad who had spent the years you were in college getting work experience in that area (and no debt, to beat).

Generally, experience trumps book learning, and on top of that, YOU have to pay to get that education, whereas to get experience they pay YOU, or at worst you volunteer and you've lost nothing money-wise. So in this day and age, with this economy, college grads get a double-whammy; they go into debt so that they can lose out on four years of potential work experience, which could easily be a dealbreaker for most employers.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Witan said:


> I know this first hand, unfortunately. Combined with my mental issues, living at a middle class level during my lifetime isn't even something I'm considering. I'm just hoping to live my life at a high-poverty level.
> 
> Unless you're going to college for science, math, or engineering, a college degree means _*N-O-T-H-I-N-G*_. Lots of people in my generation are learning some very, very tough life lessons.....the hard way.


Even worse with the college loan situation. Obama isn't doing anything to stop that, yet he wants everyone to get a good education.

That is why I went to a local university and COMMUTED the whole time. Looking back, I missed not being able to hang out in a dorm, but my debt was a LOT less than it could have been and was paid off within five years of graduating. I think my loan was only $14k and my dad used half the money for other things, so I was responsible for $7,500 or something like that.

My degree is in Computer Science, too. A VERY high demand area if there are any left in America! A lot of jobs in my field are overseas.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

millenniumman75 said:


> Even worse with the college loan situation.


That's what makes it so devastating. As a student debtor, I can see how people are worrying that a student debt bubble is set to burst soon. And honestly, I don't see how it can be prevented. Just look at the situation for goodness sake. We have more and more students taking out loans to go to college in an economy where a college degree means nothing. You have a *trillion* (with a "t") dollars owed by kids who have been promised the world their whole lives _if they go to college_, who are paying skyrocketing tuition costs, and yet who are going out into the workforce to find that their college degree is worth ****, who are lucky to get a job at all, and who can't even declare bankruptcy when they can't make their payments.

We *need* regulation to stop this predatory/subprime lending. We've already had one economic disaster from the subprime mortgage crisis, and we're set for another crisis from student debt.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

The problem is that there are not enough jobs that pay a livable wage. Even if everyone had a master's in computer science/engineering/accounting/nursing there would still be many unemployed, underemployed, or only making minimum wage.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Witan said:


> That's what makes it so devastating. As a student debtor, I can see how people are worrying that a student debt bubble is set to burst soon. And honestly, I don't see how it can be prevented. Just look at the situation for goodness sake. We have more and more students taking out loans to go to college in an economy where a college degree means nothing. You have a *trillion* (with a "t") dollars owed by kids who have been promised the world their whole lives _if they go to college_, who are paying skyrocketing tuition costs, and yet who are going out into the workforce to find that their college degree is worth ****, who are lucky to get a job at all, and who can't even declare bankruptcy.
> 
> We *need* regulation to stop this predatory/subprime lending. We've already had one economic disaster from the subprime mortgage crisis, and we're set for another crisis from student debt.


These loans are not the same as mortgages - my brother is one of these people. He dropped out of college - he wanted to live in the dorms, but my dad forbade it since it would have doubled the tuition. My brother would have been forced to drive an hour to school every day.

His loan was more (nearly double) than mine. And, he had to pay for 75% after my father died. They came after him (collections) like nothing I have ever seen in my life!


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## gusstaf (Jan 1, 2012)

I object to the viewpoint that anything outside of engineering or applied science is useless. Certain degrees certainly make getting hired easier during a recession, but they will not necessarily be considered as valuable in the future. It wasn't that long ago that everybody was studying IT because that was the only "useful" major. And look how that turned out.

I think that some people are going about college the wrong way. Yes, you should keep employment prospects in mind as you study. And yes, definitely look for an internship or a job in a related field. But that does not mean you need to give up on all your dreams to pursue something you're not at all interested in. 

My brother attended community college for two years before transferring to a state school. He worked as a web designer the whole time and graduated with no debt. He's a marketing engineer now and making a very nice living. All this despite going to a "loser" school and getting a "useless" degree (communications). A fancy private school combined with an engineering degree is not the only pathway to financial success.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Cookie cutter jobs straight out of college are mainly reserved for technical degrees. People with liberal arts degree must augment their education with realistic marketable skills(technological or social). 
The internet has opened up a global market place for labor competition. Being smart isn't good enough. You have to be able to demonstrate that you'll make more money for a prospective employer than some guy in India getting a quarter of the wage. Like it or not, its life.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

VanDamMan said:


> Cookie cutter jobs straight out of college are mainly reserved for technical degrees. People with liberal arts degree must augment their education with realistic marketable skills(technological or social).
> The internet has opened up a global market place for labor competition. *Being smart isn't good enough. You have to be able to demonstrate that you'll make more money for a prospective employer than some guy in India getting a quarter of the wage.* Like it or not, its life.


:|


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, you have to think about if the job you are training for can be done in another country through telecommuting. The health care field is good because you can't send patients to India or China.


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## Volp (Apr 1, 2012)

Its crazy.

I know someone who dropped out of high school; his family kicked him out of the house because of it.

He worked some odd jobs, eventually passed his GED, made it into welding apprenticeship and landed some contract jobs, bought a house, saved money by living frugally, bought another house with his savings and home equity loans, rinse and repeated buying houses...

Now 9 years latter he has three rental properties, his personal house is 50% paid off, and a $30/hr union welding job... :sus


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

+1 to gaining work experience while studying. Thankfully the unis here have programs to do so and if you can get experience under your belt, your chances of finding work when you graduate are improved ten fold.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Knowbody said:


> :|


Like it or not, it's not far off the truth, at least in some industries which are pushing to go offshore completely.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Volp said:


> Its crazy.
> 
> I know someone who dropped out of high school; his family kicked him out of the house because of it.
> 
> ...


How did he get into a welding apprenticeship? I've heard that it's impossible to get in (plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc.) without knowing someone, usually a family member.


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## Volp (Apr 1, 2012)

komorikun said:


> How did he get into a welding apprenticeship? I've heard that it's impossible to get in (plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc.) without knowing someone, usually a family member.


I do not know, this was 10 years ago and the economy was ok so maybe that's how. I'm more fascinated that he landed a southern Illinois union job.

You are kindof right, its looks very hard to land an apprenticeship today. I actually had a interview for a electrician apprenticeship not too long ago.. I completely failed the interview. I made a thread about it, but I feel like noone bothers to care. It was pure luck for me to get the interview, applying and resumes just don't cut it.


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## Snow Bunny (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm a graduate, one year later I'm unemployed and STILL don't know what I want to do. I'm working for free at the moment just to have some experience to put on my CV. Ugh I hate when people ask what I'm up to these days or say 'don't worry something will come up'. I will take your hate I will take your anger but I will NOT take your pity.
I think in the past week it has finally hit me how screwed I am, it's just got me very very down lately and I haven't felt this previously. I suppose as each month or year passes, hope slips away. Just like with SA, you think maybe it will get better in time and it doesn't and as time passes by, that little glimmer of hope that your life might get better grows smaller. I am not so good lately.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Snow Bunny said:


> I think in the past week it has finally hit me how screwed I am, it's just got me very very down lately and I haven't felt this previously. I suppose as each month or year passes, hope slips away. Just like with SA, you think maybe it will get better in time and it doesn't and as time passes by, that little glimmer of hope that your life might get better grows smaller. I am not so good lately.


You're not the only one


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## Linee (Apr 30, 2012)

Everyone these days goes to college but someone still needs to fill the lower end jobs. College is like having high school now. No biggie no guarantees


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Linee said:


> Everyone these days goes to college but someone still needs to fill the lower end jobs. College is like having high school now. No biggie *no guarantees*


Just one guarantee, if you're in the US; you'll have a small mortgage worth of debt.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Yeah, a very big guarantee - a mountain of debt you'll never pay back and a piece of paper that's more useless than toilet paper.

You are sca-rewed.


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## Gryffindor85 (Nov 7, 2011)

I almost didn't finish my Masters degree, took a semester off, ended up working at Walmart for 6 months, almost attempted suicide several times while working there, and was in a constant deep depression, hoping I would die almost every night so I wouldn't have to go to work the next day. I almost didn't finish my Masters because I was distraught when I found out how useless a liberal arts MA was. I went back and finished it so i could take out loans and not have to work at Walmart, plus I was so close to being done, I would feel bad not finishing it. 

The deep depression was largely caused by finding out my whole life was a waste, and that everyone had lied to me about the importance of a college education and how it didn't matter what you got your degree in. I was promised a decent job for having a BA, and a great one for having an MA, I just completed my thesis this semester, so I don't officially hold my MA yet, but I'm sure it's just slightly less worthless. There may be some hope in government jobs though, I heard they value education over experience, regardless of what someone's major was. Also, hoping I might find a way to be self employed or work from home. 

I start teacher certification in either Summer or Fall, I really don't want to be a teacher, but that's pretty much the only option I have, unless I can get a boring government job or become self employed. If all else fails, I will get a PhD just to stay out of job market longer.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Gryffindor85 said:


> I almost didn't finish my Masters degree, took a semester off, ended up working at Walmart for 6 months, almost attempted suicide several times while working there, and was in a constant deep depression, hoping I would die almost every night so I wouldn't have to go to work the next day. I almost didn't finish my Masters because I was distraught when I found out how useless a liberal arts MA was. I went back and finished it so i could take out loans and not have to work at Walmart, plus I was so close to being done, I would feel bad not finishing it.
> 
> The deep depression was largely caused by finding out my whole life was a waste, and that everyone had lied to me about the importance of a college education and how it didn't matter what you got your degree in. I was promised a decent job for having a BA, and a great one for having an MA, I just completed my thesis this semester, so I don't officially hold my MA yet, but I'm sure it's just slightly less worthless. There may be some hope in government jobs though, I heard they value education over experience, regardless of what someone's major was. Also, hoping I might find a way to be self employed or work from home.
> 
> I start teacher certification in either Summer or Fall, I really don't want to be a teacher, but that's pretty much the only option I have, unless I can get a boring government job or become self employed. If all else fails, I will get a PhD just to stay out of job market longer.


I feel for you man. I can relate to the feelings of depression; worthlessness, hopelessness, and even the suicide attempts (twice for me) :|:hug

That's why, if I do go back to school, there's no ****ing way I'm doing anything more than an AA or a certification. I'd strongly recommend that you just stop your education where you're at now, and not go on with a PhD, at least not at this point. Get some experience first.

Our generation has been lied to, whether intentionally or by omission, and we're paying the penalty now.


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

Knowbody said:


> Capitalism and poverty = higher crime rates.


You mean Capitalism = poverty + higher crime rates


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## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

I haven't really made the most out of my studies. During the degree I was quite focused though and obtained good enough results, but I wasn't really giving much thought to what I would do afterwards. I enjoyed the process of studying, but perhaps was scared or lacking enthusiasm for entering the job market. In the end i opted to do a postgraduate degree, which on one hand was motivated by a desire to deepen my knowledge of the subject but at the same time I was never really 100% committed to it, and even less so towards the end. There are several reasons for this. I don't like devoting the majority of my time to being successful in one particular thing. Money and acclaim have never really been great incentives for me. Secondly I found the majority of other students and professionals to be very into the whole selfish, cut throat mentality of working life after uni and content to be a cog in the machine. I guess having SA makes it even harder to embrace this and not feel alienated by it.


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## ManOfFewWords (Mar 20, 2012)




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## Gryffindor85 (Nov 7, 2011)

Witan said:


> I feel for you man. I can relate to the feelings of depression; worthlessness, hopelessness, and even the suicide attempts (twice for me) :|:hug
> 
> That's why, if I do go back to school, there's no ****ing way I'm doing anything more than an AA or a certification. I'd strongly recommend that you just stop your education where you're at now, and not go on with a PhD, at least not at this point. Get some experience first.
> 
> Our generation has been lied to, whether intentionally or by omission, and we're paying the penalty now.


*hug*

If I can get some experience, I will, but I likely won't be able to get my foot in the door with my worthless degree. I really have no place to turn to, I'm kind of stuck out in the wilderness, and I'm only interested in going for a PhD to avoid working retail for five or so years. I have a feeling I'll die before 30 anyway.

Despite how worthless college degrees have turned out to be, the government and society still pushes for everyone to have a college education. A degree means nothing when everyone has one. I think colleges should stop operating as businesses (state colleges are public institutions and should not be run for profit). They should only allow students with a 3.0 or higher into universities, and only grant degrees to students who end up with a 3.0 GPA. They obviously should not make grading easier if they do this, any idiot can get Cs in college and get the same degree that smart people get.


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## WinterWhite (May 1, 2012)

Too many degree holders out there and too little jobs... Degree does not guarantee success and good positions in the working world..


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## WinterWhite (May 1, 2012)

Black And Mild said:


> That times 20
> 
> It used to upset me a little when I was in high school and teachers used to preach that getting a college degree, no matter what it was, would get you a job. At the same time, they acted as if you were 100% doomed if you don't go to college


true true.. this is bull**** and those jokers deserved to be gun shot for saying that..


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## QuietandShy (May 26, 2011)

I just graduated this past December and it has been tough trying to find a full time job for 5 months, I have a non specialized bachelors degree. Like I said it has been tough to find a job but you know what? it would be 10 times more difficult without my four year degree, I can guarantee you that I would not have the part time job I found only a month after graduating college, without my degree or been offered the full time job I just got. College is more than just earning your degree, its an experience and why not do it if you want to, not just to find a job. 
That's why I do not think you should earn your degree solely through distance education, you don't get the experience of being in school or to find opportunities through your school(organizations, internships, attending events) than not being in school or earning your degree solely online. Granted it is much harder to take advantage of these opportunities while in university if you have SA.
If I had not gone to school and tried to get a job 4 and a half years ago being only 18 I would have had to end up working in a factory or as a waitress and try to work my way up from there with no degree, which is possible but not fun, I would not have had this experience that shaped me. College opens your mind and the best thing I learned was "there are more important things in life than money" as one of my favorite professors once told me. Another benefit of college, networking- I have gotten letters of recommendation from professors and one of my instructors offered to introduce me to her friend in book publishing when I mentioned that I enjoy writing and editing. Again this is very hard for people with SA but for the average person without SA it helps a lot. 
I wouldn't change my degree, and now I can even go to grad school if I really wanted to. If I had waited until now to earn my degree I would be 4 years away from starting grad school at the least. 
It's true you need to have relative experience+a degree to find a great job, but it's much easier to gain the experience when you have a degree. Then once you have both you can find a job that is amazing and worthy of your time and effort


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## QuietandShy (May 26, 2011)

ManOnTheMOON said:


> What job did you get?


The part time job I found a month after graduating was at a learning center teaching children math and reading. The full time job I just got is patient services at a dental office. This will be good experience for me because I want to be an administrative assistant at a large company and work my way up. I also want to earn my MBA.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

ManOnTheMOON said:


> That sounds great lol. *You don't sound like you have SA*.


Let's not go down that path


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## lkkxm (Apr 11, 2012)

Yup. This is 1/2 of the reason I dropped out. I can be unemployed and working in fast food WITHOUT spending 30+ grand a year, thanks. Just wish I had quit before I was so much in debt.


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## Man Is An Island (Oct 12, 2009)

Don't worry. Despite the reality that we are living in a depression being temporarily papered over by money printing and loose credit, you will still be judged by how much money you earn and the relative prestige or meagreness of your job by parents, family members, friends, women and prospective employers.


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## xTKsaucex (Jun 23, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> Capitalism and GREED = high crime rate


only proven economic system that works so put up with it.

Anyhoo, yes it is somewhat depressing when I heard from my sis that her local Subway has employees who have firsts in Science and in Law.


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## Gryffindor85 (Nov 7, 2011)

xTKsaucex said:


> millenniumman75 said:
> 
> 
> > Capitalism and GREED = high crime rate
> ...


Socialism is working great in several European countries.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

xTKsaucex said:


> only proven economic system that works


Agree (to an extent)...



> so put up with it.


Vehemently disagree.

Just because something is the only thing we know of that works now, does not rule out that, in the future, we may find a better system. But we won't find that system if people "just put up with" the current system.


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## QuietandShy (May 26, 2011)

> That sounds great lol. You don't sound like you have SA.


LOL I have SA in social situations but for some reason it doesn't affect my ability to work the only way it has really affected my work environment in the past is that I don't make friends with people I work with. Which can lead to a problem such as my boss at my internship wrote on my evaluation that I was too "shy/quiet and it can be seen as a lack of initiative" but now that I know this I am working on it.


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## xTKsaucex (Jun 23, 2010)

Witan said:


> Agree (to an extent)...
> 
> Vehemently disagree.
> 
> Just because something is the only thing we know of that works now, does not rule out that, in the future, we may find a better system. But we won't find that system if people "just put up with" the current system.


True that things might change but I'm somewhat of a realist when it comes to economic philosophy. Capitalism works as it abides the most to our in built human nature of desire, recognition and possession. As a result of this, most of the worlds greatest advances have occurred under the umbrella of capitalism so I would be more thankful than critical as I'm sure half of what you have in your room right now wouldn't be there.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

xTKsaucex said:


> True that things might change but I'm somewhat of a realist when it comes to economic philosophy.


Realism and idealism need not be polar opposites. I consider myself an idealist in that I have in my head an idea of a better world that I think would work, but I'm a realist in that I know that I almost certainly won't live to see it, and it may never happen at all. And even if it did happen, I acknowledge that it could very possibly turn out to be a catastrophe.



> Capitalism works as it abides the most to our in built human nature of desire, recognition and possession.


It is certainly true that to try to totally stop human nature is doomed to failure. Just look at "abstinence only" sex education and communism (where no matter how hard you work (or don't work), you get just as much as the next guy. The "carrot" incentive to work harder is replaced by the only alternative; the "stick"). But I think certain negative human traits can be redirected to better uses. For example, participating in sports is, in many ways, a means of redirecting aggressive tendencies. I feel that laissez-faire capitalism doesn't just recognize greed (which is simply human nature), but celebrates it. Those are two different things.

I could go into my own economic philosophy, but to keep it brief I won't



> As a result of this, most of the worlds greatest advances have occurred under the umbrella of capitalism.


I would rather say the Industrial Revolution is responsible for that. I believe that the Industrial Revolution could have proceeded down two different paths; an authoritarian, aristocratic route (workers are paid a set wage, and the bosses reap the excess), and a democratic, egalitarian route (where the workers democratically manage their enterprise as they see fit).

I feel that, unfortunately, we went down the former route.

(Sorry if this sounds all disjointed, I could write a ton more to better explain what I mean, but I want to keep it as short as I can :blush)



> *I would be more thankful than critical as I'm sure half of what you have in your room right now wouldn't be there.*


I bet pro-slavery advocates said the same thing a century and a half ago in the US. I could imagine them saying that abolitionists were criticizing the very system that *literally* put the shirt on their back (cotton).


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## AmericanZero (Apr 17, 2012)

Supply and demand people. The "employee market" is flooded with college degrees. They're almost worthless for setting yourself ahead, but essential if you want a job. Entrepreneurship or self-employment in some form is the way to go, at least that's where I'll end up eventually because I can't stand the idea of being told what to do every day for the rest of my life.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

xTKsaucex said:


> only proven economic system that works so put up with it.
> 
> Anyhoo, yes it is somewhat depressing when I heard from my sis that her local Subway has employees who have firsts in Science and in Law.


That's not true at all. And by many definitions, it isn't working.

All greed and illusion... it's only lasted this long because of several factors such as isolation, resources, and a false sense of empowerment.

It's a wonder that Americans have time to be so miserable.


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## QuietandShy (May 26, 2011)

AmericanZero said:


> Supply and demand people. The "employee market" is flooded with college degrees. They're almost worthless for setting yourself ahead, but essential if you want a job. Entrepreneurship or self-employment in some form is the way to go, at least that's where I'll end up eventually because I can't stand the idea of being told what to do every day for the rest of my life.


This is completely true.


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## albrecht (Oct 18, 2011)

xTKsaucex said:


> True that things might change but I'm somewhat of a realist when it comes to economic philosophy. Capitalism works as it abides the most to our in built human nature of desire, recognition and possession. As a result of this, most of the worlds greatest advances have occurred under the umbrella of capitalism so I would be more thankful than critical as I'm sure half of what you have in your room right now wouldn't be there.


You sound like a wife apologizing for an abusive husband. "He beats me every night, but I should be thankful because his income pays for the food I eat."


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## applesauce5482 (Apr 26, 2012)

AmericanZero said:


> Supply and demand people. The "employee market" is flooded with college degrees. They're almost worthless for setting yourself ahead, but essential if you want a job. Entrepreneurship or self-employment in some form is the way to go, at least that's where I'll end up eventually because I can't stand the idea of being told what to do every day for the rest of my life.


Yup that's what I'm going through right now.


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## ForgetMeForever (May 3, 2011)

I heard someone on the news comment that colleges and professors should be forced to buy stock in the future earning potential of their students...their educations would be more work/real life oriented. No doubt.


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## TellMeMore (May 8, 2012)

AmericanZero said:


> Supply and demand people. The "employee market" is flooded with college degrees. They're almost worthless for setting yourself ahead, but essential if you want a job. Entrepreneurship or self-employment in some form is the way to go, at least that's where I'll end up eventually because I can't stand the idea of being told what to do every day for the rest of my life.


Thats exactly what am going to do, i ve had some success on making my money online after that i have been hooked with the idea that all i need is my programming skills to make bots and systems, IM(Internet Marketing) skills to know how to promote the **** out of sites, and indians to outsource all of my grunt work. Haha gotta love IM.


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## ijustwanttobemute (Jun 2, 2012)

The only good thing about hearing news like that is that I'm not alone. I work at a Mail order pharmacy and I have a BA in Psychology and I'm almost done with Graduate school. *Sighs*.


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