# My advice to college students



## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

Major in math, a hard science, engineering, comp sci, economics, or finance. Get really good grades. Then, when you graduate you will be able to make big bucks. I would also suggest going to grad school, either a master's in one of those fields or an MBA at a really good school. Or, get your MD. 

In today's world, you need to have a very high level of education and if you do you will make big bucks. You might not think making money is important now, but believe me it will be important later. Having money reduces your SA a lot. People treat people with money much better.


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## JEmerson (Mar 25, 2010)

Honestly, I don't want to associate with anyone who determines how they treat people based on whether they have money. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to try and somehow impress those people with a particular degree or career field.

I've struggled with whether to go into a field due to salary prospects or to go into something I would actually find interesting. I've come to the conclusion that I need something of a balance. There's no point in making $$$$ if you hate your job and work 60+ hours a week. But you also don't want to make barely above minimum wage with a BA.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

Actually...I know some people who are very well off with nothing but a high school diploma. My peers who graduated (with a BA or BSc) in no way are ahead of the game with jobs nonspecific to their major. A lot of them are waiting tables. This isn't to say don't pursue a degree. I agree it can get your foot in the door. But it is NOT the end of the world if you can't. To have an undergraduate degree these days, in North America, is almost standard. Graduate school often will land you a teaching job or a research position but goodness, the grand income referred to by the OP is not there! Research means you survive off government grants. Teaching is teaching. One of my closest friends is wrapping up a PhD in chemistry. He's extremely concerned about the narrow job market open to him. The problem with graduate school is you know a LOT about one very, very specific subject. Now. There are jobs that can be lucrative like being a genetics counsellor which does require a Master's at minimum. But hey, you have to be ready to adore genetics. Despite being a science major myself (because I love it) in no way should anyone believe they can't make a decent living with a BA. There is a huge world out there for those who love the arts whether it be in writing, finance, business, or publishing. Don't limit yourself.

I would disagree with this entire post and say study what you love. That's the proper motivation to do well, and we excel where we feel most comfortable.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

Ah, yes, because all secondary education is just a way to get more money. Wonder why they even bother teaching literature, art, philosophy, language, or history? That doesn't teach you how to run any faster on the hamster wheel...


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## Lasair (Jan 25, 2010)

Money...happiness....- I'll go with happiness - don't go telling anyone what to do - I'd rather be low paid but happy and confident in what I do rather than high paid and stuck in a job I hate and be miserable 

okay I'd like to be highly paid, happy and confident - but we can't have it all


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## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

There's been a recent backlash against finance, business majors, and MBAs, though. A lot of businesses see them as liabilities and skip them for someone who has more experience. Even in hard sciences and engineering, it can be difficult to find work outside of the field. These degrees don't automatically equal money.

The better solution is to study what you like best for the cheapest amount possible. A degree isn't a guarantee of anything besides the fact that you have one. Stay out of debt, go to a state school or community college if you need to. Otherwise you might find, as Will Hunting said, "that you dropped 150 grand on an education you could've got for $1.50 in late charges at the public library."


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

Did that; am poor, unemployed, and excluded from the job market. All you need are "Excellent communication skills", maybe some degree, and the ability to engage in office politics and fit in.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

Exactly! What you majored in really doesn't matter (in most cases). Your ability to communicate and get along with people is far more valuable than some abbreviations after your name. All employers really are looking for is that you dedicated yourself to completing something that not everyone has the motivation or dedication to do. Along the way you're sure to do group work, no matter what the major, and develop social skills that are valuable in the workplace. 

Now. That said, I worked at a vet clinic for a few years as a summer job. There were two technicians, same age, same gender, same people skills. One had a degree on top of her diploma, the other did not. Guess which got promoted to office manager? It's not a waste of time. 

Anyway, as I said (and someone else) a science degree does not guarantee a huge salary. Don't pursue it unless you enjoy what you're studying.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

Belshazzar said:


> There's been a recent backlash against finance, business majors, and MBAs, though. A lot of businesses see them as liabilities and skip them for someone who has more experience. Even in hard sciences and engineering, it can be difficult to find work outside of the field. These degrees don't automatically equal money.


That doesn't make much sense. To even get your foot in the door you need a degree minimum. I have been to quite a few interviews, some interviewers even admitted they don't understand why people who don't have an education in the field are seeking things like accounting or finance just because they think they opened their own bookkeeping business or have "people skills" they can automatically get preference over someone who actually studied the material. These days you need either work experience or the relevant credentials under your name. The magical work experience can only be gained by getting the job in the first place, which a degree allows (entry level positions, then rack up exp).

I just got hired for a contract position with a major oil company that pays $27/hour and the interviewer told me I beat out 160 people because of my education alone


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

I agree 100000000000000000000000000000%
Education=$$$=happiness


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

If im going to be miserable making a lot of money i might as well go with something i can tolerate and love and not make a lot of money.


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## Relaxation (Jul 12, 2010)

If I was in college again, I would spend less time concerned about classes and more time concerned about bedding hotties.

If you want a good job, it's a combination of credentials, your reputation, people skills, and luck.


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## mbp86 (May 11, 2010)

My advice:

Study what you enjoy learning about. If you don't like any of the subjects, don't go to college. Even if you do have a degree, you need to know what you want to do with your life. So if you choose a major you don't care for, you will still be stuck at your same ****ty job.


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

If I could do college all over again... I wouldn't do it  But if I had an interest in math, science, or engineering, I would totally do that.


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## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

Its impossible to give generic advice on higher education. Its good for some people and a waste of time for others. Figure out what you want to do with your life and what it requires to get there. 

Nobody's mentioned going the junior college/trade school route. An Associate's degree or certification is enough to get your foot in the door in certain industries. I know of many people who've done just fine this way. 

Whatever type of education or field of study you pursue, there's no guarantee of making "big bucks," either. That depends on networking and contacts, how well you market yourself, the economy, and luck.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

The debt can ruin your life forever and you'll never get out of it.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

mbp86 said:


> My advice:
> 
> *Study what you enjoy learning about.* If you don't like any of the subjects, don't go to college. Even if you do have a degree, you need to know what you want to do with your life. So if you choose a major you don't care for, you will still be stuck at your same ****ty job.


I disagree. 
Go for a subject that will make you rich.
If your marks are high, study medicine.
If your marks are average, study business and later on get a business law degree.

My biggest interest is anthropology but wtf can I do with an anthropology degree? I could become an archeologist or a teacher!! :no 
$$$$$$=happiness, never forget it.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Lots of people under 25 saying money doesn't matter. Is there anyone here old enough to have seen and understood life who still thinks money doesn't matter?


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> The debt can ruin your life forever and you'll never get out of it.


depends.
I know someone that is paying 20K a year (tuition+residence+books) and he's studying writing!! He's a moron.

1) Don't live in residence if you don't have to
2) Don't study ****ty and pointless subjects
3) You can also try going to a college and then transferring all your credits to a University after 2 years. You can save a **** load of $ this way.


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## Setolac (Jul 26, 2009)

xenobiotic said:


> my advice is quit school and enjoy ur life while ur still young i consider myself lucky i was able to quit high school (it was boring and i dont leik ppl (teachers) tellin me wut to do, fuuuuuuuuu)


Good advice, bro! Now let's do that...


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## KittyGirl (May 14, 2010)

Well, if you wanna be poor like me - in debt without a hope of paying any of it off- eating crackers 3 meals a day, then do what I did and live with your highschool boyfriend in college!
_You can forget about college parties and socializing-- wait for him at home with a cold dinner because he's 5 hours late coming home!
Behind 3 months on rent? No problem! Quit your childhood dream education 3/4 of the way through and work 12 hours a day for **** money! 
Think you're going to get married and have babies instead of getting a job that pays above minimum wage? Forget about it! That boy's probably going to break your heart and leave you with absolutely nothing but 20,000 in debt. lovely!_

true story.
...anyways; if you know what you want- you have to work hard and stay on the track that you've planned.
**** happens sometimes and that can't be helped but try your best to do whatever you have to. Keep your eyes on the prize and graduate once you've started!
I'm not talking about the people who go to college for general certificates because they aren't sure of what they want to do with their lives... I'm talking about anyone who has had a very clear path set out for them by *themselves* since they were 12 years old- to do what they loved and still love to do.

Love is important, yes- but if your grades are slipping or you might have to quit because your partner has no ****ing clue what they're doing, don't quit! Keep on it- move into dorms; bunk with a friend near campus- don't quit on your dreams for a man/woman/girl/boy because in the end you will likely regret it.
Years and years ago I never thought I'd even *think* this, but- I regret ever falling in love. I regret losing everything I thought I was to pursue a life with someone who - in the end, wasn't mature enough to commit even after 8 years together.

now... you can all just ignore my post.
thanks.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

LALoner said:


> Lots of people under 25 saying money doesn't matter. Is there anyone here old enough to have seen and understood life who still thinks money doesn't matter?


I hope mine wasn't interpreted that way. Money does matter. But so does being happy. At my young age I know a lot of people in high paying jobs who hate what they do and it's getting to the point where it's not worth it. What the OP argues is you need a science degree to get the money but that's not reality. I know a ton of science degree holders and those with Master's degrees who get by on minimum wage (if they're lucky enough to have jobs) and I know a ton of people with college diplomas or just a high school diploma doing a lot better financially because they either a) have an idea, believe in it, and run with it, or b) are really good at what they do and get promoted after going through the necessary training. Willingness to learn and adapt and work well with people are three amazing traits.


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

LALoner said:


> Lots of people under 25 saying money doesn't matter. Is there anyone here old enough to have seen and understood life who still thinks money doesn't matter?


I was gonna point out the same thing. I am late 20s and I started the thread.

You don't wanna be poor post-college. There aren't any jobs for most liberal arts majors anyways, they are a waste of time. I'd suggest sucking it up and doing a science major and read history or whatever in your spare time.


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

seafolly said:


> I hope mine wasn't interpreted that way. Money does matter. But so does being happy. At my young age I know a lot of people in high paying jobs who hate what they do and it's getting to the point where it's not worth it. What the OP argues is you need a science degree to get the money but that's not reality. I know a ton of science degree holders and those with Master's degrees who get by on minimum wage (if they're lucky enough to have jobs) and I know a ton of people with college diplomas or just a high school diploma doing a lot better financially because they either a) have an idea, believe in it, and run with it, or b) are really good at what they do and get promoted after going through the necessary training. Willingness to learn and adapt and work well with people are three amazing traits.


Well you have to go to a respectable college. Don't get a master's at a college US News doesn't respect. If you have a master's in one of the fields I mentioned from a good school, you will make good money.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

^ Did it; hasn't happened.

The one it did happen to, who I see regularly, took years of accountancy qualifications on top and went into a different field.


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## Jaynie (Jun 7, 2010)

People who go into the sciences expecting to be rich are going to be disappointed. People who don't LIKE science and go into it anyway are almost certainly going to be crap scientists, and probably won't get hired very often. 

I hope people won't interpret this as as me being an "under 25" who doesn't yet understand the value of money, but I don't think a big paycheck is worth sacrificing your happiness for. Studies have found that rich people are no happier than poor people (provided those poor people are above the poverty line) and that actually they are often more depressed, I suspect because there is a tendency to tie their sense of self up in their stuff, and to overwork. Not healthy. 

I'm a bio/psych major, and if I manage to make the average pittance paid to bio/psych majors fresh out of school, I will be able to live in reasonable comfort (decent apartment, good quality food, nice bit of spending money, bit of light travel) and pay off my student loan in 4-5 years. I know Canada's tuition is much lower than the USA, but frankly even if it took twenty years it would be worth it.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> Well you have to go to a respectable college. Don't get a master's at a college US News doesn't respect. If you have a master's in one of the fields I mentioned from a good school, you will make good money.


Currently in one of the top universities in the country. The people I'm referring to are holders of BA's, BSc's, various Master's, and PhD candidates from either the same university or those of equal standing. The PhD candidates are the most concerned about their futures. Again, refer to the guy I mentioned in chemistry because I'm repeating myself too much in this thread.

People who think a BSc and above is a golden ticket to a high salary job from ANY school are fooling themselves.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

I'd probably shoot myself if I had to study and then get a job for the rest of my life in science, mathematics, or business.

So, I'll take being an underpaid public school teacher. I'll be constantly teaching something that I adore (Latin!). Happiness is more important than money. Money is a ridiculous ambition when you consider how brief a human life is.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

bezoomny said:


> I'd probably shoot myself if I had to study and then get a job for the rest of my life in science, mathematics, or business.
> 
> So, I'll take being an underpaid public school teacher. I'll be constantly teaching something that I adore (Latin!). Happiness is more important than money. Money is a ridiculous ambition when you consider how brief a human life is.


Yeah, there are two arguments going on in this thread but this is the most important to emphasize. As I said from the start, I hope those reading this will study what they love.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

more like graduate from college, go to grad school.....and end up in debt or pay off a $250,000 loan for the rest of my life haha

this reminds of the college dropout skits/cartoons lol


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

successful said:


> more like graduate from college, go to grad school.....and end up in debt or pay off a *$250,000 loan* for the rest of my life haha


is your college made of gold??
Don't make up numbers plz


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

Manfi said:


> is your college made of gold??
> Don't make up numbers plz


not mines, i'll be going back to a cheap community college lol

but you never heard of students being $100,000 in debt and spending they're whole life paying it off after going to a top uni to get a "good education"? ... plus im assuming grad school will cost another 90-$1000,000. it's very common and realistic.

but i agree $$$$$$=happiness8)


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## utopian_grrl (Jun 26, 2008)

I've made compromises during my college education. I could have gone to a "better" undergrad university and get stuck paying off 100K+ in loans. Instead, I wanted to leave all my options open for law school (which, unlike undergrad is hard to find a decent cheap one), so decided to go to a university where I could graduate with minimal debt. Now, I expect to be able to pay off my undergrad debt entirely before entering law school. This wouldn't have happened racking up a six-figure debt at my "dream" university then having another 150K from law school.

The OP stated that, even if you're not passionate about the subject, majoring in a hard science is best for making money. I disagree. Obviously these subjects are more difficult than other majors and traditionally have lower GPA averages. Someone who isn't passionate about science would probably have grades below these averages. This could hurt grad school chances and employment prospects.

I'd say major in your passion. Some compromise is in order though. Given the choice, I would have been a history major probably studying something (sorry history majors) relatively useless like the Roman Empire or Tudor England. Yet, knowing the lack of jobs in that field, I decided to study a versatile subject like political science. 

Money is nice, but it isn't everything.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

I hate math and business. I'm a Psychology major and I'm very passionate about the subject. I agree that Liberal Arts degrees are rather... well, what kind of jobs do you get with those? At least I have a path to become a psychotherapist. :um


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## Steve123 (Sep 13, 2009)

Honestly, I think Post-Secondary education in general is overrated. Even my cousin who has her Masters in a hard science from Oxford (yes THE Oxford) is woefully underemployed, especially compared with my friends who went straight into work or apprenticeships who (after putting in work and moving up) are now making more money than they know what to do with. (Side note: I've had to listen to my friend talk about how he randomly buys $500 suits on a whim that he doesn't even plan on using, meanwhile I was in school, flat broke and living off noodles). 

The best way to learn skills needed in the workplace is _in the workplace_ where you get real hands on experience and get paid to do it (obviously there are exceptions to this, doctors NEED med school, though most of us aren't doctor material). If I could trade in my four years of university for four years solid work experience I'd do it in a heartbeat (then again, I was a sociology major :?)

If you do go to post-sec make sure a) the program name is literally the name of an occupation, b) as would be the case if the above is true, it teaches specialized and practical skills and c) there is some kind of co-op or placement program to help you practice these skills in the "real world" as they like to call it. 

The problem with University is that a lot of kids (like myself) go not for any good career reasons, but simply for their parent's own vanity and that they're "expected to" (like me). If there is a certain subject you just happen to be interested in, you could learn a lot about it for far less time, money and stress simply by reading books and accessing the wealth of information about it available to you on, you guessed it, the internet.


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## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

Do go for something that has some practical application in the real world, but forcing yourself to study something you don't like because you think it will make you a lot of money will probably just get you bad grades. A pre-med degree with a 2.0 GPA is as about as useless as a "Gender Studies" or whatever nonsense degree.


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## Jaynie (Jun 7, 2010)

I think we might be talking from very different positions here. USA universities are pretty notoriously expensive, even the crummy ones. After a quick search, I found UCLA and University of Washington budgets that estimate student expenses in one year at about twice what I spent, including food,fun stuff, a new laptop, and a new netbook. Admittedly I didn't pay rent, but even in my relatively expensive university city I still would have come in well under budget. So I can see why you might be more hesitant to pursue a higher education out of love of the subject alone at those rates. Conversly, I imagine the entire concept of choosing a major based on how much it would make you would be hilarious in countries where education is practically free. 

That said, some people (admittedly probably people with a financial safety net) will objectively look at the cost of USA schooling and decide that a full education in philosophy is worth it to them. Some people aren't at all interested in money beyond a decent place to live and decent food to eat. Incidently I would be one of those people if I had never been bit by the travel bug. 

And I would really *strongly* advise against going into science and engineering if you don't like it. Scientists with lots of years of work experience are comfortably middle class, no more, and engineering, while financially sound, is effing hard. You really want to compete against the kid from every highschool who complained about only getting 99% on a test once? When he's doing something he loves and you're barely slogging through it?

Incidentally, both fields also require creative thought, which is very difficult to achieve if you couldn't care less about what you're doing. 

Note: I previously posted something slightly different based on an error in my reading; I have deleted it, but if you did catch it, please disregard my failure to read numbers!


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

utopian_grrl said:


> I've made compromises during my college education. I could have gone to a "better" undergrad university and get stuck paying off 100K+ in loans. Instead, I wanted to leave all my options open for law school (which, unlike undergrad is hard to find a decent cheap one), so decided to go to a university where I could graduate with minimal debt. Now, I expect to be able to pay off my undergrad debt entirely before entering law school. This wouldn't have happened racking up a six-figure debt at my "dream" university then having another 150K from law school.
> 
> The OP stated that, even if you're not passionate about the subject, majoring in a hard science is best for making money. I disagree. Obviously these subjects are more difficult than other majors and traditionally have lower GPA averages. Someone who isn't passionate about science would probably have grades below these averages. This could hurt grad school chances and employment prospects.
> 
> ...


dude me and you have so much in common (except that I dropped out last year)!
I was also studying Poli Sci hoping to go into law after, AND I ****ING LOVED poli sci, but I couldn't take university anymore. Starting Sept I'll be going back, (this time for a BBA) and thankfully I can use about 1.5 years worth of my Poli Sci credits towards my BBA. And I disagree, money is everything. 
Money doesn't just bring happiness, it also brings power.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

Jaynie said:


> I think we might be talking from very different positions here. *USA universities are pretty notoriously expensive, even the crummy ones.* After a quick search, I found UCLA and University of Washington budgets that estimate student expenses in one year at about twice what I spent, including food,fun stuff, a new laptop, and a new netbook. Admittedly I didn't pay rent, but even in my relatively expensive university city I still would have come in well under budget. So I can see why you might be more hesitant to pursue a higher education out of love of the subject alone at those rates. Conversly, I imagine the entire concept of choosing a major based on how much it would make you would be hilarious in countries where education is practically free.


This is why I was so confused about people talking about ridiculous loans!!!
I have 2.5 years of University under my belt and my loans are almost payed off (I only have a couple of thousand left). The University I went to wasn't that expensive but even if I had been to UBC (which is the best uni in the Province and top 3 in Canada) my tuition wouldn't have been that much higher.



successful said:


> not mines, i'll be going back to a cheap community college lol
> 
> but you never heard of students being $100,000 in debt and spending they're whole life paying it off after going to a top uni to get a "good education"? ... plus im assuming grad school will cost another 90-$1000,000. it's very common and realistic.
> 
> but i agree $$$$$$=happiness8)


I didn't know post secondary was so expensive in the US, that's why I was confused.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

More canadians who have grudges against the USA. Wonderful.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> More canadians who have grudges against the USA. Wonderful.


:sus:sus:sus
you alright?


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

I know two people with BSc's from good schools. Both of them were unable to find work for several years after they graduated. One of them ended up doing something totally unrelated to his degree after meeting someone at a yacht club who offered him a job. The other person went to teacher's college recently and is still finding it difficult to get work.

I enjoyed going to school for English. I could never study math or science or finance, and I could definitely never work in math or science or finance. I had two interviews in the last two weeks, and I have another one today, so I guess my degree isn't all that undesireable. The jobs are all in publishing, which doesn't pay very well, but it's what I want to do.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

Manfi said:


> I didn't know post secondary was so expensive in the US, that's why I was confused.


Yeah it's brutal. The only peers of mine that went to the States for university were those who literally had personal drivers. My parents were supportive when I applied to various programs but the limit was it had to be within the country. We simply couldn't afford the American education.

The "brain drain" is a very well known phenomenon. People get their degrees and attend med school in Canada but as soon as they graduate they move to the States where the salary is higher and hours are better but they don't have endless student debt to pay off. This is not a case of "Canadians hating Americans." :sus

Anyway, Steve 123 has a point. While some of us are toiling away writing papers and lab reports that we're never going to refer to again, others are in the work force earning experience with both jobs, interview, and people. More and more people are realizing that a simple 2 year college diploma is a better route to go with a job at the end of it. Personally I'm tinkering with the idea of having one last year of studying biology and if my anxiety is still limiting me I'm calling it quits. I gave it six years so far. If I'm too sick, I'm too sick. Time to take time off to heal, then enter college for paramedics and get on with my life. I'd be studying what I love, life sciences, and making a direct impact on people. Those are my standards for a solid career.


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## Jaynie (Jun 7, 2010)

stranger25 said:


> More Canadians who have grudges against the USA. Wonderful.


 Saying that our education is cheaper than yours isn't a grudge, it's a fact. Sometimes it helps to use those in order to understand where our differences of opinion might come from. :yes

Anyway, for anyone saying that having lots of money will make you happy, you might be interested in the last few decades of psychological research that suggest otherwise. There seems to be a very slight connection between having a certain amount of money and happiness, but it's apparently not a long-term happiness and there is not nearly as great a difference in general happiness between poor people and rich people as you might think. Another study found that being rich can actually impair a person's ability to savor everyday positive emotions and experiences. A third suggests that people are happier all around in countries where the highest income bracket is not too much higher than the lowest; rich as well as poor benefit. There are also hidden downsides: many very rich businessmen work far too much, and a lot of the wealthy folk isolate themselves from peers, thus neglecting the social and cultural experiences that *actually* make people happy. So yeah. You might want to rethink that idea.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

Jaynie said:


> Saying that our education is cheaper than yours isn't a grudge, it's a fact. Sometimes it helps to use those in order to understand where our differences of opinion might come from. :yes


:high5


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## bobthebuilder (Jun 17, 2009)

owning your own business is the real path to wealth. Working for somebody else is unlikely to make you rich. Wealthy, maybe, but if you can start your own business and make it successful...you will have more money and something to be proud of. You have to work harder at it then you would in a normal job, possibly for years not making huge profits, but once it gets going, you can choose to keep working at it and make more money, or work less and make less money and have other people run the business. 

Thats not to stay you shouldnt go to college, just make sure your learning something that doesnt require an employer.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

bobthebuilder said:


> owning your own business is the real path to wealth. Working for somebody else is unlikely to make you rich. Wealthy, maybe, but if you can start your own business and make it successful...you will have more money and something to be proud of. You have to work harder at it then you would in a normal job, possibly for years not making huge profits,* but once it gets going, you can choose to keep working at it and make more money,* or work less and make less money and have other people run the business.
> 
> Thats not to stay you shouldnt go to college, just make sure your learning something that doesnt require an employer.


what percentage of people accomplish what you just said?? 
There is no easy way out really. In the end school is the best option. Later in life when you have saved enough money you can invest it and those investments will make you much more money than having your own business. 
For example if I had 150K dollars two years ago I would've been able to buy a bunch of foreclosures in the US and sell them today for huge profits. Or I could have invested in China or invested in a ME bank (huge interests).

I was reading the American census to see how many Iranians live in the US and I came across this. 
"The group estimates that the actual number of Iranian-Americans may top 691,000 -- more than twice the figure of 338,000 cited in the 2000 U.S. census. *According to the latest census data available, more than one in four Iranian-Americans holds a master's or doctoral degree,* the highest rate among 67 ethnic groups studied. With their high level of educational attainment and a *median family income 20 percent higher than the national average,* Iranian-Americans contribute substantially to the U.S. economy. "

Education and wealth go hand in hand. Saying that I know a person who has a degree and isn't able to find work isn't the right way of looking at it. Statistics don't lie.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

Jaynie said:


> Saying that our education is cheaper than yours isn't a grudge, it's a fact. Sometimes it helps to use those in order to understand where our differences of opinion might come from. :yes
> 
> Anyway, for anyone saying that having lots of money will make you happy, you might be interested in the last few decades of psychological research that suggest otherwise. There seems to be a very slight connection between having a certain amount of money and happiness, but it's apparently not a long-term happiness and there is not nearly as great a difference in general happiness between poor people and rich people as you might think. Another study found that being rich can actually impair a person's ability to savor everyday positive emotions and experiences. A third suggests that people are happier all around in countries where the highest income bracket is not too much higher than the lowest; rich as well as poor benefit. There are also hidden downsides: many very rich businessmen work far too much, and a lot of the wealthy folk isolate themselves from peers, thus neglecting the social and cultural experiences that *actually* make people happy. So yeah. You might want to rethink that idea.


Work-life balance means many issues you mention get mitigated anyways. People overwork and naturally they are going to feel stressed. Happens in every single job if you aren't careful. Many companies have cushy benefits like gyms, nutritious cafeterias nearby, flexdays (holidays you can pick whenever you want) etc. along with the standard health/dental benefit plan. Even smaller companies usually always have some sort of benefits in place for workers to help them out someway.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

seafolly said:


> Currently in one of the top universities in the country. The people I'm referring to are holders of BA's, BSc's, various Master's, and PhD candidates from either the same university or those of equal standing. The PhD candidates are the most concerned about their futures. Again, refer to the guy I mentioned in chemistry because I'm repeating myself too much in this thread.
> 
> People who think a BSc and above is a golden ticket to a high salary job from ANY school are fooling themselves.


They are not getting a job because of their degrees but because of the current economic recession. Important distinction there.

Employers are anally cutting out employees and consolidating job duties for one person, so that person can do managerial multi-tasking more. These companies are doing this to survive financially. It's the nature of the economy right now. If it was average or a boom right now they would open their doors.


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

counterfeit self said:


> They are not getting a job because of their degrees but because of the current economic recession. Important distinction there.
> 
> Employers are anally cutting out employees and consolidating job duties for one person, so that person can do managerial multi-tasking more. These companies are doing this to survive financially. It's the nature of the economy right now. If it was average or a boom right now they would open their doors.


Oh I don't disagree! But I'm directing that point more at the OP who seems to think these degrees, particularly science based, equals money. In the case of the guy with the PhD his field is so narrow the work simply isn't always available. No one's immune from a recession.


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## Jaynie (Jun 7, 2010)

seafolly said:


> In the case of the guy with the PhD his field is so narrow the work simply isn't always available. No one's immune from a recession.


In addition to that, a lot of times nobody wants to hire Mr. PhD for a lesser job that he's capable of doing because they expect him to want more money -- even though the unemployment rate for a lot of recent doctorates at the moment is so poor they'd gladly take any money at all.

Back on point, the ten top paying majors are exclusively in engineering (hard) or computer science (also hard). Traditional sciences (physics, chem, bio, astronomy) don't even register.

Also, on the happiness front, I guess it comes down to the old cliche: do you work to live or live to work? A lot of people lose sight of the "live" part entirely in pursuit of the next big paycheck, and really, I doubt anyone has ever lain on their deathbed and said "hmm, I really wish I'd made more money."


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## seafolly (Jun 17, 2010)

As usual, I agree with all of the above.

It's true, bio is off the radar. I sure don't expect immediate employment when I graduate. It's also true that those with higher degrees would be considered overqualified for some jobs and would be turned away. A friend of mine with a mere undergrad in physics is taking ANYTHING that comes his way but each employer says the same thing: overqualified. But the guy needs to pay his rent sometime soon so things are looking bleak.


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

seafolly said:


> Oh I don't disagree! But I'm directing that point more at the OP who seems to think these degrees, particularly science based, equals money. In the case of the guy with the PhD his field is so narrow the work simply isn't always available. No one's immune from a recession.


I didn't say to necessarily pursue a career in science. I said to major in science. Many banks will hire science and engineering majors over finance majors because the former are perceived to be smarter and the employer assumes they'll pick it up on the job.


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## bobthebuilder (Jun 17, 2009)

"In addition to that, a lot of times nobody wants to hire Mr. PhD for a lesser job that he's capable of doing because they expect him to want more money -- even though the unemployment rate for a lot of recent doctorates at the moment is so poor they'd gladly take any money at all."

I dont get that, couldnt you just say you have a bs, or just an as, on your resume instead of phd? Or make it clear in the cover letter your not looking for huge pay.


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## coldmorning (Jul 4, 2007)

bobthebuilder said:


> "In addition to that, a lot of times nobody wants to hire Mr. PhD for a lesser job that he's capable of doing because they expect him to want more money -- even though the unemployment rate for a lot of recent doctorates at the moment is so poor they'd gladly take any money at all."
> 
> I dont get that, couldnt you just say you have a bs, or just an as, on your resume instead of phd? Or make it clear in the cover letter your not looking for huge pay.


Lying on a resume like that is a big no-no. And it would be really difficult to make something up for the 7 years (average) it takes to get a phd.

You're also going to feel really bad, as an employer, paying a phd $10/hour or whatever. So I'd agree it can be a liability to have a phd if you're aiming for more modest jobs.


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## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

Manfi said:


> Education and wealth go hand in hand. Saying that I know a person who has a degree and isn't able to find work isn't the right way of looking at it. *Statistics don't lie.*


lol

Statistics without context are worthless. There are wealthy degreed individuals and philosophy majors who had to move back in with their parents after they graduated.

People who go to college probably just have more ambition to begin with. Obviously, its not the only road to wealth and success as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have proved.


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

coldmorning said:


> Lying on a resume like that is a big no-no. And it would be really difficult to make something up for the 7 years (average) it takes to get a phd.
> 
> You're also going to feel really bad, as an employer, paying a phd $10/hour or whatever. So I'd agree it can be a liability to have a phd if you're aiming for more modest jobs.


You could just list your BS and not put down your PhD which would not be lying. However, as you said, you're going to have a big gap on your resume that you'll have to explain.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

Mr. Frostie said:


> lol
> 
> Obviously, its not the only road to wealth and success as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have proved.


Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are like one in a million. They got lucky as they rode the wave of the computer boom when it was just starting. They saturate the news with their presence whenever they appear. What you never hear about are the thousands upon thousands of failed entrepreneurs and small businesses that close up shop every year.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

Mr. Frostie said:


> lol
> 
> Statistics without context are worthless. There are wealthy degreed individuals and philosophy majors who had to move back in with their parents after they graduated.
> 
> *People who go to college probably just have more ambition to begin with. Obviously, its not the only road to wealth and success as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have proved.*


how many Bills and Steves are there for gods sake!????
The BIG MAJORITY of people who skip post secondary end up working like slaves for the rest of their lives.


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

The best advice is don't just go to college with no direction and assume everything will work itself out once you graduate. That's the mistake I made. Everyone always told me to just get a degree, it didn't even matter what it was in, as long as I had one I'd be set. 

That couldn't have been further from the truth. I graduated with a degree in Mass Communications and now I have no specialty or skills that any employer cares about.

I wish I could press the rewind button and redo college. I'd definitely chose something else. Definitely not math, engineering, etc because I'm too dumb for that ****, but something that teaches a real, useful skill.


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## tierra88 (Apr 20, 2010)

all business classes are team based. when you graduate you are a teamworker, communicator, and have social skills. i guess im aloof


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

Here is an article which I think backs up my point: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100905/ap_on_bi_ge/us_employment_future_jobs


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Base level skills will only get you so far. 

In order to really succeed, you need to learn how to communicate and socialize. 

Either pick a career that you don't need human interaction like programming or start working on you SA.


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## Honeybee1980 (Jan 29, 2009)

As far as high paying careers/majors go, don't forget to add Nursing to the list. All it takes to be an RN is an Associate's degree (2 yrs) and in California starting wages average $83K per year, $40 per hour!! (depending on where you live) Also there are student loan forgiveness programs for nurses and often sign on bonuses, as well as great benefits, flexible schedules, and travel opportunities. I am applying to Nursing school at my local community college in February 

http://www.choosenursing.com/faqs/money.html

http://www.choosenursing.com/for_you/salary.html


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

Honeybee1980 said:


> As far as high paying careers/majors go, don't forget to add Nursing to the list. All it takes to be an RN is an Associate's degree (2 yrs) and in California starting wages average $83-89K per year, $40-46 per hour!! Also there are student loan forgiveness programs for nurses. I am applying to Nursing school at my local community college in February
> 
> http://www.choosenursing.com/for_you/salary.html


I'd recommend confirming that salary with other websites.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> I'd recommend confirming that salary with other websites.


agreed
I don't think it's anywhere near 80 grand


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## Honeybee1980 (Jan 29, 2009)

Well it depends on where you live in the country, in california we make some of the highest wages, but in some areas you have to factor in the higher cost of living as well (for example big cities like san francisco bay area, or LA). I personally live in a more rural area, so my cost of living is pretty average compared to the U.S. overall. Many of the jobs would be in the larger urban areas thus increasing the mean wage for the state.

*More Labor Market Research on Nursing Wages:*

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291111.htm

Input zipcode or state to see how it compares to national wages--

http://www.careeronestop.org/SalariesBenefits/Salary_Report.aspx?soccode=291111&stfips=&zip=&mode=

http://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/occguides/Summary.aspx?Soccode=291111&Geography=0604000097

http://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/occguides/ALLOESWage.aspx?Soccode=291111


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## Honeybee1980 (Jan 29, 2009)

Even if the wages for RN's in your area are somewhat lower, I can't think of any other 2 year degrees that pay this well. Many people don't have the time or funds to wait and get a Bachelor or Master's degree before they enter the workforce, so this is just one avenue to consider. 
I am planning on getting my RN associate's, getting a job, and going to school part time to earn my BSN while I work. Many nursing employers will also help pay tuition for you to further your education. CSU Chico, for example, offers an online RN to BSN degree, which would be a convenient way to get an advanced degree while earning a good living at the same time.


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## Elizabeth419 (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm studying art and couldn't be happier with my choice. I will get a masters degree in arts administration and go from there. I'd rather do things I love in life than force myself to study and work at something I would hate, like engineering.


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## SilentLoner (Jan 30, 2006)

Homersxchild said:


> I hate math and business. I'm a Psychology major and I'm very passionate about the subject. I agree that Liberal Arts degrees are rather... well, what kind of jobs do you get with those? At least I have a path to become a psychotherapist. :um


No one will hold a liberal arts degree agaisnt you. As long as you know how to market the degree to employers you can do well (and I know a lot of people who have).

I'm a double degree anthropology/criminal justice major. I'm studying biological/physical anthropology even though I favor cultural studies. I thought for a while I'd try and go into forensic/physical anthropology for grad school but I'm inclined to go with criminology now. Anthropology has worked in my favor when I applied for research positions involving criminological study - the anthropological perspectives I've been taught are seen as good skills.


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## lde22 (Oct 19, 2009)

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> Major in math, a hard science, engineering, comp sci, economics, or finance. Get really good grades. Then, when you graduate you will be able to make big bucks. I would also suggest going to grad school, either a master's in one of those fields or an MBA at a really good school. Or, get your MD.
> 
> In today's world, you need to have a very high level of education and if you do you will make big bucks. You might not think making money is important now, but believe me it will be important later. Having money reduces your SA a lot. People treat people with money much better.


I think you have a point, and I agree with you that math/science/engineering majors make more money. But I don't think money is the only thing you should base your career choice on. I think you should do what really interests you and you love first and then money should be the second criteria.

Money is extremely important though and I think a lot of people undervalue it's importance and act like money doesn't matter. When it seems to me that being poor, working class, or even lower middle class causes immense unnecessary stress and frustration in life.


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

If you are taking psychology a masters is pretty much needed to get a job.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

I mostly agree with what you are saying but you are taking it a bit too far. A high paying job that you hate is a only going to lead to frustration and disappointment. You spend a large portion of your life working - >40 hours a week, for decades. Do you want to spend this time doing something you hate? You will burn out very fast. 

I think the right job/career is the one you find interesting or at the very least can tolerate, it also should match your strengths and give you the lifestyle you want. 

Of course, I guess money is important too and many don't realize this when they are young (me included) but perhaps when you are 40-50 with a family to support and bills to pay, you may regret forgoing a higher paying career because you didn't find it interesting enough when you were young.


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## lostinlife (Jun 2, 2010)

@ SAgirl - I think that's untrue, but be sure to take research methods courses to increase your marketability. There's a lot of consulting companies that will hire psych grads, if you live near a big city.


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## lde22 (Oct 19, 2009)

SAgirl said:


> If you are taking psychology a masters is pretty much needed to get a job.


I wouldn't be surprised if that was true. I was getting my haircut once and the girl cutting my hair said she had a bachelors in psychology.


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