# Question for Men



## Cyber Lume (Sep 19, 2010)

I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship? 
My impression was that guys pretty much only approach ladies that they are interested in romantically and/or sexually; I guess I could understand the reasoning behind that, if that's true. Still, it's a disappointing feeling at times...


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## gmdrew (Jan 8, 2012)

Honestly...well at least for me...No. I find it weird to have friends of the opposite sex because A) someone will eventually want more than just friendship so someone will be bound to be hurt. B) If I was with someone, I would feel horrible talking with another woman since I shopuld be talking with the one person I am with. Plus, I would never want her to feel something is going on.


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## Daft (Jan 5, 2012)

I think it has a lot to do with age. Among the younger generations friendship between men and women is very common. Very few of my peers feel uncomfortable with it, or like it's going to lead to trouble. Many people do feel more comfortable socializing with the same gender, though.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Cyber Lume said:


> do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?


Yes. Very strong emphasis on "yes".



Cyber Lume said:


> My impression was that guys pretty much only approach ladies that they are interested in romantically and/or sexually


Depends on the environment and how cold an approach you're talking about ("cold" referring to how 'stranger' they are to each other). The colder the approach, the more likely it's out of romantic interest.

So, at a bar full of strangers, you're not going to get guys looking for friendship. In something like a school environment, though, I'd say anything goes.


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## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

Do women approach single guys for friendship, strictly? If women supposedly sit back and wait for the man to do all the approaching, in any context, what context do you think men will choose? Environment and relationship status play a big part though. Its not impossible to maintain a platonic friendship. The problem occurs when feelings get involved. Its can come from both sides too, Ive experienced enough to know.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I don't because I'm still under the stupid mindset of "she's a girl and I'm a guy and we are different" (TO A DEGREE!) even though I realize this is a very, very naive conception of mine and it does nothing good for me. You also have to realize that I've been single for so long my views have been focused mainly on getting a girlfriend I want and not a friendship. Honestly, I hardly seek out any friendships with any sex so regardless if your a male or female it doesn't matter. I do seek out relationships with women simply because that's what I'm interested in. I am not interested in making more friends however.

In the end, I admit that I still feel a disconnect from opposite sex friendship connections which is not the woman's fault (i.e., personality, etc) but mainly my own motives and views. I realize that women can be better friends than men and have better qualities as well. I don't try to view women as all the same because they are not like men. But my motive has been to be in a relationship for the longest time. I simply have yet found a reason beyond accomplishing that goal to make friends with women, but yet, ironically, I have made friends that are women just by living my life and not even looking for it. Most of the friendships that have occurred are on their own accord and they sought out friendships with me. If a solid friendship connection is established with a woman then I am a loyal friend and not selfish or corrupt and I cherish the friendship.

I feel the older I get the more I find things in common with women and the more I am willing to drop all romantic notions aside and become friends but this is not my main prerogative at the moment unless she wills it. The only reason I find more things in common as I age is because I am more willing to allow friendships with women. I would fully admit that I am possibly missing out tremendously on things because of lack of friendships with women.

Everything I have said is because of ME and not women. I don't think women are unworthy of anyone's friendship and believe it's the individual that determines what quality the friendship will be whether that's a man or woman. I am simply not interested in making friendships with women unless by their own accord, but this does not mean I will not respect the friendship nor cherish it if it happens; it also means my goals are subject to change and this is just how I feel for now.


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## feverfew (Jan 11, 2012)

I do talk to girls that I'm not interested in romantically, but it's not like I approach them to be my friend. Usually if I had class with a girl before and she is in another class, I'll usually talk to them, or if they sit next to me in class.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Btw, I was walking around campus today and almost every single group of people had a male female ratio that was even, and I saw many solo guys talking to solo girls; more so than not; it was the majority it appeared. So this notion may only be in the OP's mind.


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## David777 (Feb 6, 2011)

When I was younger I would have answered "Yes", but that was only because back then I was so starved for female attention that even just being friends with a woman brought about great feelings of elation!

But now, (online aside) I really don't see a need for female friends. I no longer seek that nonsexual female attention and because of that, the only reason I'll try and get to know a woman is because I'm trying to get with her.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Cyber Lume said:


> I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?


The quick answer is no because men are testosterone fueled and don't have friendship on their mind, they do not think 'tend and befriend' as women. The only males friends that I could keep in the past were gay. Not that I'm complaining but it would be nice to have a straight man's opinion on some things once in awhile.


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## Charizard (Feb 16, 2011)

I have more female friends than male friends.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> The quick answer is no because men are testosterone fueled and don't have friendship on their mind, they do not think 'tend and befriend' as women. The only males friends that I could keep in the past were gay. Not that I'm complaining but it would be nice to have a straight man's opinion on some things once in awhile.


This is interesting because I can't really argue against it in my case. Maybe if we had the sexual advantage women have we would be different. But I venture to say some men do seek out female friendships, but I personally do not know much, if any at all.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7788038.aspx


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> Maybe if we had the sexual advantage women have we would be different.


I don't know what you're saying here but men have sexual advantage too.


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

Cyber Lume said:


> I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?


Yes, I don't mind. I do it all the time.



> *My impression was that guys pretty much only approach ladies that they are interested in romantically and/or sexually;* I guess I could understand the reasoning behind that, if that's true. Still, it's a disappointing feeling at times...


For me, that's not necessarily true. It takes a special girl for me to do that.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Alright, so I got a lot to say about this so I'll just say them...

Reasons as to why men do not seek friendships or keep friendships with women:

1. he is too attracted
2. he feels rejected and pride is more important
3. no commonalities

I'm sure there are more...

Reasons why I, personally, would consider a female friendship:

1. if she could "teach" me something about the opposite sex
2. if she had other girl friends i wanted to date
3. if it was fwb (this is iffy for me though because I probably wouldn't want the extra BS emotions that go with it)
4. if i sincerely enjoyed her company


And I'm not trying to be cynical; just truthful. I hardly ever find that I learn much from women anymore and so possibility #1 is kinda out the window. #2 is still a possibility but I am also at odds with the fact that it's not a starting friendship based on mutual interest or compatibility but rather to meet other girls; when I hear women chastise me about NOT making friends with women I don't think they understand that I have a problem being fake "friends" with someone and that is my conflict in doing so; I sincerely HATE being fake or pretending to enjoy anything for the sake of something else unless it is really worth it, which often isn't the case with women because I feel it less of a hassle to approach in person than fake a friendship to meet her friends, which I have a moral problem with as well. #3 seems like a one night stand thing only because I wouldn't want the extra emotional baggage I'm sure that would ensue. #4 is out because i simply don't seek any friendship that often and it has nothing to do with the woman.

Believe it or not I respect women but it's a complex thing if your a guy and also it is painful to us sometimes. Besides, is it even possible to be friends with someone your attracted to? Wouldn't that cause problems or conflicts? There are biological reasons men are this way.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> I don't know what you're saying here but men have sexual advantage too.


How?


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

calichick said:


> The quick answer is no because men are testosterone fueled and don't have friendship on their mind, they do not think 'tend and befriend' as women. The only males friends that I could keep in the past were gay. Not that I'm complaining but it would be nice to have a straight man's opinion on some things once in awhile.


There's no question that a lot of guys aren't interested in making friends with females.

Personally though, I can find a girl attractive (as in - "yep, I'd do you"), but still be happy being 'just a friend' to her (or pursuing a friendship with her).

Now, if I find I'm very attracted to her (as in - "I want you _right now_"), then no - friendship's not going to work.

I'd also add here that the more conventionally attractive a girl is, the harder a time she's going to have making (straight) male friends. That's just the way it is.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Just Lurking said:


> There's no question that a lot of guys aren't interested in making friends with females.
> 
> Personally though, I can find a girl attractive (as in - "yep, I'd do you"), but still be happy being 'just a friend' to her (or pursuing a friendship with her).


I'm actually relieved you said this because I do think it is a bit of a generalization to say all men don't seek female friendship. It is only in my case, and in some of the guys I know, different.

Now that I think about it, my friends who were guys in the past had lots of female friends so I was wrong about saying I didn't know guys with female friends; I just don't have much friends today I call super close. There is one I can think of that has many, many female friends. Whether it was the case that my past male friends sought out that friendship with the women I cannot say, however.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

You know what, erase what I said about wanting straight male friends. I tried to make that happen but I get crazy jealous (yea I know shocking!), even if I'm not attracted to a guy. If he's talking to another girl, I'm like "wtf does she have on me" and my mind starts racing....



bwidger85 said:


> How?


You should know, you're a male lmao


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## MaxSchreck (Nov 1, 2010)

Cyber Lume said:


> I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?


Yes, ofcourse. Ofcourse the thought comes up someday like 'hey how would it be to sleep with her?' but i forget it in the next 10 minutes. 
Trust me there are people who just want to be friends with you, and those are mostly the most sane down to earth people, so you might end up liking them.


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## PaysageDHiver (Jun 18, 2011)

Not really. I'd like more female friends, but I'm not socially refined enough to communicate with her in a way that conveys a desire for friendship as opposed to a relationship. So, she'll likely think that I want a relationship, and start to distance herself, which will create tension, which I hate.


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## Daktoria (Sep 21, 2010)

Cyber Lume said:


> I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?
> My impression was that guys pretty much only approach ladies that they are interested in romantically and/or sexually; I guess I could understand the reasoning behind that, if that's true. Still, it's a disappointing feeling at times...


No.

"Bland" women are more secluded than "bland" men. It probably has to do with how men have stronger sex drives and more emotional gumption.

Therefore, it's easier to find "bland" men to just be friends with instead of "bland" women.

Outside of blandness, there's no reason to just be friends with someone who's attractive. If the attraction's there, we might as well go with it.

I'm a deep thinker, but even deep thinkers have feelings too. This doesn't mean I won't do friendly things with women, but there's no reason to set supplemental attraction aside. The key is convincing women that thoughts and feelings are two separate things. Women seem much harder to explain this to. I think it has to do partially with how women are spoiled because they have weaker early sex drives and men compete harder over them. This convinces them it's OK to remain immature in not realizing feelings are out of our control, thoughts are in our control.

Once women understand this, though, being more than "just friends" really isn't an issue.


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## Secretly Pretentious (Dec 18, 2011)

This thread makes me sad. I figured that there were going to be a couple of horn dogs sprinkled here and there who couldn't think of women in terms other than a vag to penetrate. But the responses seem to be almost 50/50. That's a lot more men who wouldn't befriend women than I thought there would be. Is it really that hard to just be friends with women? I'm in BJJ club at my school and it's very heavily male dominated. (There's only one other woman besides me and she hardly ever comes.) I'm very friendly with a lot of the guys there. Some are single. Some have girlfriends. Some I find attractive. Others, I don't. And although I had to prove myself to some of the guys, I have most of their respect as a fighter foremost and a woman second. At least that's how I've been perceiving it. Please don't tell me that I'm wrong. It would break my heart to learn that they only liked me there because triangle choke happens to be a very sexy submission.










I HATE to think of men only in terms of sex-driven predators who only bother to interact with females in hope of a quick f**k. It sounds so cynical and unfair to reduce men to such a negative stereotype. But if it's so hard separate the association of women to sex, it makes me wonder... Have I been giving men too much credit? Oh, god I hope not.


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## MindOverMood (Dec 12, 2009)

^You're an attractive girl, so I wouldn't be surprised if they let you triangle choke them:b


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## Secretly Pretentious (Dec 18, 2011)

MindOverMood said:


> ^You're an attractive girl, so I wouldn't be surprised if they let you triangle choke them:b


They aren't supposed to like it! They're supposed to panic and tap out when blood flow to their brain is cut off and they start to black out! :cry


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## The Silent 1 (Aug 21, 2011)

Well, I rarely try to go out of my way to pursue a friendship with anyone. I have had casual female friendships that developed naturally from working together or from being in class together. In those cases, I didn't pursue a friendship they just sort of happened over time. I do find that I may go a little more out of my way to establish a friendship with a male simply because I find it easier to find males with my interests or sense of humor. And for a long time I was generally more nervous around women.
As far as the attraction part goes, it is far easier for me to be friends with a female I'm not attracted to. And there was a case where I became friends with a female who was interested in me, where I didn't like her. Its not just the men who end up getting feelings, and the best part about being friends with a guy is that nothing is ever at stake. Even with my most casual female friends there were sometimes moments of sexual tension. What I really hate is that in the past I've had female friends whom I was attracted to who were often very flirty with me. I knew that they didn't want a relationship with me, but they were often flirty which kind of sends mixed signals and often comes off like they are just teasing me for the sake of it.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

TBH, no.

*Secretly Pretentious*: you make it sound a bit worse than it really is. It's not that we all talk to women purely in the hopes of getting laid. It can be driven by a mix of sexual and romantic interest, or even just romantic interest in itself.

Do I think it's fair to say that a lot of men are incapable of maintaining a close, purely-platonic friendship? Yes. That's my personal opinion.

Do I think they're all just trying to **** you? No. It's usually (though not always) more complicated than that. It is possible for guys to have crushes that go beyond just sexual interest, you know. And even if they know they will never get a relationship with you, sometimes it's nice just to have some sort of female attention/approval/interaction. (I should know, since this is how I operate, knowing that I have no chance at a relationship).

I would venture to guess the majority of the guys in in your class who approach or make an effort to interact with you have at least some non-platonic motives or interest. Yet, it's also likely that none of them see you as just a sex object.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

Secretly Pretentious said:


> They aren't supposed to like it! They're supposed to panic and tap out when blood flow to their brain is cut off and they start to black out! :cry


:lol This is funny.

But seriously, in answer to the original question, yes I do seek friendship of girls, but I wouldn't randomly approach a girl (or a boy, for that matter) to try to become friends with them. If I saw a girl who I found good-looking, I would want to approach them (I probably wouldn't though) because i found them attractive. I wouldn't just see a girl and think "I want to be friends with her, I will go over and start talking," but if I notice something we have in common then I will talk to her, for example is she was wearing a t shirt of a band I liked or something like that. Without clues like that, though, there is no way of differentiating between one person and another for possible friendship.


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## Cyber Lume (Sep 19, 2010)

> I'd also add here that the more conventionally attractive a girl is, the harder a time she's going to have making (straight) male friends. That's just the way it is.


Perhaps this is a part of my problem then. Not to sound vain or anything, but judging from reactions from people, I must seem attractive to them. Hm...

It's not that I don't understand the reasons why men don't casually befriend women, it's just... I guess I can't really connect with this idea on a personal level. I don't actively seek out romance (more of a, 'if it happens, it happens' philosophy), and I have a difficult time feeling attracted to person's appearance beyond pure aesthetics. Difference of interests, I suppose.

It's a little upsetting for me at times, mainly because if I find a human being that I would like to connect with - one that also happens to be male - I feel like I'm leading them on romantically just by saying hello to them. Even if I just wave and smile politely, it seems like I've thrown a bread crumb into a fish pond. :S

I'm glad you had so much to say on the subject, bwidger85. Didn't think anyone would find it that interesting. 



> But if it's so hard separate the association of women to sex, it makes me wonder... Have I been giving men too much credit?


I feel that this is a problem with much of our current society; sex seems to be tacked onto everything and everyone by default. I don't care for this notion- not that there's anything inherently wrong with sex, it's just... don't people ever think about anything else? XD


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## Rossy (Jan 15, 2011)

I am different to most men sex is the last thing on my mind,I know a fair number of ladies that are purely friends.


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## Rainbat (Jan 5, 2012)

Personally, I don't pursue women merely for friendship. I have plenty of female friends though. It's the same reason I don't "pursue" men for friendship. It's friendship, that's it. Usually that just develops naturally as you interact with someone on a regular basis.

Also, it's worth noting that, even if I'm only friends with a woman, I still think about her sexually. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It just means I have functioning levels of testosterone.



Secretly Pretentious said:


> I HATE to think of men only in terms of sex-driven predators ...


So don't think of them that way. Believe it or not, sex isn't evil, and you shouldn't demonize men for functioning the way they're biologically driven to function. I guarantee you that even the men you consider "nice" and non-predators are still thinking about you sexually. *This is healthy.* There are men who are more forward with their desires than others, and those are the ones that you're probably thinking of. If you're unhappy with jerks like that, then tell all of your female friends to stop dating them, because that's why they're so prevalent. If the sex-obsessed male archetype wasn't so incredibly successful at getting women, I'm sure you'd find more gentlemen out there.


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## lightsout (Jan 8, 2012)

I don't really do the approaching (to any gender), so I can't really comment specifically on that. On male-female friendships I don't really have a polarized view either way (totally cool or never works). I recognize that even if it starts as friendship, if one person starts to "fall" for the other (but the other person doesn't feel the same way), that you can't really just "reverse" your feelings and go back to just being friends.

When meeting any new people though (for me), in general it's easier to get to know a female quicker ("open up", however you want to word it) than a male (my guess - even if the guy seems chill, there may be a subconscious jockeying of position between 2 males - your competition, etc, though it usually doesn't last long when you get to know them. That, and maybe it's considered more "acceptable" to tell your "feelings" to a female, while with a guy you're just supposed to talk about common-activities & such).


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

All my male friendships happened because we had common interests. I could find a common interest with a girl if I really thought about it but most of those interests I'd rather do alone to a degree.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> You know what, erase what I said about wanting straight male friends. I tried to make that happen but I get crazy jealous (yea I know shocking!), even if I'm not attracted to a guy. If he's talking to another girl, I'm like "wtf does she have on me" and my mind starts racing....
> 
> You should know, you're a male lmao


I should? Your the one who brought it up; that's why I'm asking you. As far as I can tell the only "advantage" of sex as a male is that we don't get pregnant but we are obligated by law to take care of the child via child support, etc, which I agree with. I still would like to read your perspective on this since you don't understand where I'm coming from. Sounds like you know something I don't...

I'm also glad you stated what you said in that you get jealous of men talking to other women because this indicates the opposite side of things when a man befriends a woman (for SOME men): "What's he got that I didn't have"...hence the pain and pride factors -- you best believe if he isn't dating you then he will be flirting and talking to other girls in front of you, which is yet another reason why I don't ask girls who are friends to come to a bar with me, etc, like I would a male friend. Unless the woman is very interesting and we have great commonalities then I wouldn't be her friend unless for the reasons I stated earlier. It just so happens to be my male friends like to do many of the same things I do. I'm sure I could find a girl who would do the same but I don't really need to at this point.

Also realize that once a girl befriends a platonic friend it gets weird when you have to hang out with her boyfriend and her boyfriend has to hang out with you. No one wants to be the third wheel and no one wants jealousy or suspicion. There is a good reason males do what they do and women do the same don't kid yourself.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Yes, I've talked to women and only wanted friendship. Doesn't usually turn out at all.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> I should? Your the one who brought it up; that's why I'm asking you. As far as I can tell the only "advantage" of sex as a male is that we don't get pregnant but we are obligated by law to take care of the child via child support, etc, which I agree with. I still would like to read your perspective on this since you don't understand where I'm coming from. Sounds like you know something I don't...


No you're the one who brought it up. You said sexual advantage not advantage of sex :haha Saying that only women have sexual advantage is sexist, especially in a society where women are objectified to the max. Men have equal sexual advantage, it is just not the blatant image of "sex" that we usually associate it with.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> No you're the one who brought it up. You said sexual advantage not advantage of sex :haha Saying that only women have sexual advantage is sexist, especially in a society where women are objectified to the max. Men have equal sexual advantage, it is just not the blatant image of "sex" that we usually associate it with.


Ok, then instead of stating what you believe give me reasons to back it up. I'm not yet disagreeing with you. I want to have something to reflect off of first. You may be right. I just don't see it yet.

OK, advantage of sex, w/e. That's what I meant, so it seems like we are thinking about two different things. Moving on unless you still disagree.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> Ok, then instead of stating what you believe give me reasons to back it up. I'm not yet disagreeing with you. I want to have something to reflect off of first. You may be right. I just don't see it yet.
> 
> OK, advantage of sex, w/e. That's what I meant, so it seems like we are thinking about two different things. Moving on unless you still disagree.


HUH? Men don't have advantage of sex? that is even more sexist than your previous statement . . . do you not know how sex/sexuality works?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> HUH? Men don't have advantage of sex? that is even more sexist than your previous statement . . . do you not know how sex/sexuality works?


What I mean is women have easier options with sex (i.e., they don't have to work as hard TYPICALLY).

If what I said earlier was confusing because I said the wrong words, I'm sorry. If you still don't agree with what I just said in this post then please feel free to give me reasons why you disagree. If you don't disagree then w/e, I guess we can move on unless you do disagree then please state why.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> What I mean is women have easier options with sex (i.e., they don't have to work as hard TYPICALLY).


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


>


great explanation :b


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## Rainbat (Jan 5, 2012)

calichick said:


> No you didn't.


It's true, sorry.

Women don't have the burden of pursuit. They merely sit back and wait for the courting to happen. It doesn't matter what you look like, how poor your hygiene may be, how terrible you may dress, or how horrible your personality may be, you can still find sex easier than men can. There are droves of men out there that will sleep with anything even remotely female. They'll even *pay* for it.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> great explanation :b


here's an explanation, just because women don't **** anything that moves doesn't mean we have "easier sex options" LOL


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> here's an explanation, just because women don't **** anything that moves doesn't mean we have "easier sex options" LOL


neither do i


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> *What I mean is women have easier options with sex (i.e., they don't have to work as hard TYPICALLY).*
> 
> If what I said earlier was confusing because I said the wrong words, I'm sorry. If you still don't agree with what I just said in this post then please feel free to give me reasons why you disagree. If you don't disagree then w/e, I guess we can move on unless you do disagree then please state why.


Well, if women have easy access to sex, that would mean some males will have easy access to it too. I mean, it takes two to do it...


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

BobtheSaint said:


> it takes two to do it...


debatable :lol


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## Secretly Pretentious (Dec 18, 2011)

anomalous said:


> TBH, no.
> 
> *Secretly Pretentious*: you make it sound a bit worse than it really is. It's not that we all talk to women purely in the hopes of getting laid. It can be driven by a mix of sexual and romantic interest, or even just romantic interest in itself.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reassurance (even if it isn't exactly the answer I was hoping for). When I read this thread, I expected 90% of the responses to be "I would never discriminate against potential friends because of gender." When I didn't see that, I had a premature panic attack. After thinking about it for a bit and reading a few more responses, I guess I misunderstood what most guys were saying. It sounds like they wouldn't reject having a female friend if there was a connection, but they don't actively seek it out. The process wouldn't be any different if the potential friend was male.

I just find it hard to believe that all my single, male friends are even partly interested me either sexually or romantically. The idea of it sounds very conceited and I just wouldn't flatter myself like that.



Rainbat said:


> So don't think of them that way. Believe it or not, sex isn't evil, and you shouldn't demonize men for functioning the way they're biologically driven to function. I guarantee you that even the men you consider "nice" and non-predators are still thinking about you sexually. *This is healthy.* There are men who are more forward with their desires than others, and those are the ones that you're probably thinking of. If you're unhappy with jerks like that, then tell all of your female friends to stop dating them, because that's why they're so prevalent. If the sex-obsessed male archetype wasn't so incredibly successful at getting women, I'm sure you'd find more gentlemen out there.


You're absolutely right and I apologize. Sex is a completely healthy and natural function and nobody is evil for wanting it. But as a woman with SAD, it's very hard NOT to demonize sex. Society tells women that sex is reputation ruining. I don't want to be labeled as **** for having sex outside a relationship a few times. Plus I'm scared of getting hurt. If a guy comes on to me, I'm going to feel special. But if he was only coming on to me because I had a hole to stick it in, then really I'm no more special than any other woman. That's really ego-blowing after getting my hopes up so high.



bwidger85 said:


> What I mean is women have easier options with sex (i.e., they don't have to work as hard TYPICALLY).


I hate to be a traitor to my own sex, but I agree that women have an easier time getting casual sex. But we're strictly talking about casual sex with no strings attached. I'm a very average looking woman with a boring personality, but if I decided that I really wanted to get laid, I bet I could lose my virginity within 30 days. Go to clubs/bars often, dress ****ty, flirt shamelessly...badabing badaboom. It doesn't mean that I could make a connection or bag a boyfriend if I wanted though. And unfortunately, that's what I really want.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

BobtheSaint said:


> Well, if women have easy access to sex, that would mean some males will have easy access to it too. I mean, it takes two to do it...


True.

OK, I have to revise this again...

Women don't have to try as hard for sex unless she is unattractive to a large extent.

In either case, it is what it is.-- I feel like i have to put that disclaimer up whenever I talk out this lol


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Secretly Pretentious said:


> I hate to be a traitor to my own sex, but I agree that women have an easier time getting casual sex. But we're strictly talking about casual sex with no strings attached. I'm a very average looking woman with a boring personality, but if I decided that I really wanted to get laid, I bet I could lose my virginity within 30 days. Go to clubs/bars often, dress ****ty, flirt shamelessly...badabing badaboom. It doesn't mean that I could make a connection or bag a boyfriend if I wanted though. And unfortunately, that's what I really want.


This isn't about being a traitor to your sex. This is just how it is and I'm not complaining. This does not change my view on respecting women. I just would rather state the truth than sugar it up to make people feel better.

And the whole reason I even began to state this on this thread was to say that if men had the same "easy" time getting sex that it may actually make us less aggressive toward it and more willing to accept friendships of the opposite sex, but _*maybe*_ because we are more oppressed than women with the "easiness" of getting laid, this is why we are so aggressive in getting it. Unattractive women are aggressive with perusing sex and relationships not because they are women but because they don't have the sexual options most women have, and so it's kinda like being a man lol...but obviously, not really.

Do you see what I'm saying here? There is a reason guys are so damn horny. Women are too but men have to be open about it because if we aren't we ain't getting action. Women typically do not have to be aggressive about it and are thus perceived to be less sexual, when I know this isn't the case.

So in a way, you got to respect why men are like this -- we have NO choice unless we settle for someone we aren't physically attracted to.

I hope this makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I understand and respect your position for not having sex because you want a boyfriend and not to feel used. I get that and respect that. Believe it or not, I feel the same way sometimes, and yes, women have tried to do this to me and I felt ****ty about it.


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## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

If I note that she is not romantically/sexually interested I'm all for friendships. Having a friend is good no matter what gender.


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## bran808 (Apr 27, 2011)

If it weren't for SA, I would. But I do talk to girls my age online purely for friendship occasionally.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Secretly Pretentious said:


> I'm a very average looking woman with a boring personality, but if I decided that I really wanted to get laid, I bet I could lose my virginity within 30 days.


Point is irrelevant, there will always be someone lower on the totem pole than you who is willing to do you, same with men, there will be girls who are under their league, but they don't want to settle for that, they want the prize .



> So in a way, you got to respect why men are like this -- we have NO choice unless we settle for someone we aren't physically attracted to.


You can speak for yourself when you say that, I know plenty of guys who have girls throwing themselves at them.


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## David777 (Feb 6, 2011)

For me, It's not that I can't think of a woman outside of sex. I can. I can see a woman as just a friend and enjoy her company as just that.

BUT, I also can't deny that when it came to our interactions, *the over all main reason why I enjoyed her company is because she is a woman.*

Even if I knew that sex was 100% out of the question, when talking to a female acquaintance, always my biological emotions (does that makes sense) were of: this is a woman, I as a man want a woman, want to be close to a woman, want the attentions of a woman, and this is why I'm enjoying myself so much. Sure a guy can repress those feelings, but they ain't going away!


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## Define Me (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't approach women I don't like romantically/sexually. It's not because I'm a bad person, but because I can't befriend females as I would males.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

David777 said:


> For me, It's not that I can't think of a woman outside of sex. I can. I can see a woman as just a friend and enjoy her company as just that.
> 
> BUT, I also can't deny that when it came to our interactions, *the over all main reason why I enjoyed her company is because she is a woman.*
> 
> Even if I knew that sex was 100% out of the question, when talking to a female acquaintance, always my biological emotions (does that makes sense) were of: this is a woman, I as a man want a woman, want to be close to a woman, want the attentions of a woman, and this is why I'm enjoying myself so much. Sure a guy can repress those feelings, but they ain't going away!


Yes; this is the last point I wanted to add in my previous post, but I didn't really know how to word it.

We can debate all day how many guys will pursue girls only bc they want to get laid, or want a relationship, etc. But I feel fairly confident in saying that *most* straight men will never view a female friend as identical in nature to a male friend, as long as he finds her the least bit attractive. That's what I was trying to convey in response to Secretly Pretentious: the set of reasons for why the men in her class approach her are almost certainly not identical to the set of reasons for why they'd approach another dude in the class. There could be some overlap, but unfailingly, there's always that extra "she's kinda cute, wouldn't it be awesome if she actually responds well to me" incentive.

See, I view this as totally natural, and for a long time I assumed most women operated the same way. But after reading a lot of posts here on the subject, I feel there's a fundamental difference, in general, between the genders. Girls want to compartmentalize men into "f*ckable" and "friends," with no overlap; they completely emasculate their male friends and see them as identical in every way to their gal pals. Men generally don't do this, at all. The Venn diagram between the set of girls a guy is interested as friends, and interested in sexually/romantically, usually has great overlap.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Rainbat said:


> There are droves of men out there that will sleep with anything even remotely female.


Like I said above, men willing to **** a walking pole, doesn't automatically imply women have it easier off. Oh big joy, that random pervy guy staring at me across the bar is willing to have sex with me...gosh how it's great to be female

:clap:boogie:yes


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

calichick said:


> You can speak for yourself when you say that, I know plenty of guys who have girls throwing themselves at them.


Yeah, that's true. There are some guys out there that get a lot of attention.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

calichick said:


> Like I said above, men willing to **** a walking pole, doesn't automatically imply women have it easier off. Oh big joy, that random pervy guy staring at me across the bar is willing to have sex with me...gosh how it's great to be female
> 
> :clap:boogie:yes


There are two groups of men that almost any girl (at least 80-90%) can easily **** on a whim, if she wants.

1. Pervy, creepy old dudes like you're talking about
2. Shy, un-confident, and/or unattractive guys who are actually perfectly decent people

You all (girls here, not just you) like to focus a lot on the first group, while ignoring the fact that the second is also available for the taking. I think a key difference is that you probably have the ability to get with a relatively hot guy with modest effort, if you're willing to accept one who's not of high social status.

I mean, I'll grant you that the most popular stud in town isn't "easy" for an average or even above-average girl to land. Still, the amount you have to lower your standards to avoid unreasonable hardship is just a whole lot less than is the case for all but the top 10% of guys.


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

anomalous said:


> There are two groups of men that almost any girl (at least 80-90%) can easily **** on a whim, if she wants.
> 
> 1. Pervy, creepy old dudes like you're talking about
> 2. Shy, un-confident, and/or unattractive guys who are actually perfectly decent people
> ...


No one, male or female, will sleep with somebody they're not attracted to.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

anomalous said:


> There are two groups of men that almost any girl (at least 80-90%) can easily **** on a whim, if she wants.
> 
> 1. Pervy, creepy old dudes like you're talking about
> 2. Shy, un-confident, and/or unattractive guys who are actually perfectly decent people


That exists for males too, what's your point?


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## LxHi (Jan 29, 2012)

Answer to the initial question.. 

Yes I often approach girls or see myself inclined to desire a new friendship. Attraction doesn't only come in physical form, and you don't need to be intimate with someone to admire those qualities.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

calichick said:


> That exists for males too, what's your point?


You think that 80-90% of guys can decide "hey, I want to bed a 6 or 7 tonight" and have it materialize with minimal effort? Even if she's shy?


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## Lottoman (Nov 9, 2010)

calichick said:


> That exists for males too, what's your point?


It exists, but to a much much lower extent.

I guarantee you can easily find *at least* 10 million men who would immediately jump at the chance to sleep with a much older woman (say 50+) or a woman that society would typically deem very unattractive. But flip that around with a 50+ man and a very unattractive guy and the number of women who would immediately sleep with him would amount to a few hundred at best, probably a lot less. They would also be much harder to locate.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I realize I've said far too much on this thread but I just want to say something I've already said lol:

Being me, I don't seek out many friendships, and so most friendships seek me out for w/e their reasons. So if a woman sought out a friendship with me I'd most likely accept but she would have to get our friendship on a level where I also desired the friendship, and this usually happens for me once we get to know each other and build a bond. So it isn't like I wouldn't appreciate a woman as a friend, it's just that I am naturally not looking for any friendships lately. The friendships I have sought out were not intended to make long lasting friendships because I socialized with people (mainly guys) because of a common interest (music, sports, gym, girls, etc) and what happened was we starting talking and getting to know each other and developed a bond naturally; at that point we developed an unintended bond and kept in contact via a friendship. However, some of my friendships have vanished because the beginning commonalities vanished, and I view this as a natural process. After all, friends are friends because they are mutually benefiting from one another in one sense or the other.

So, once again, if a woman approached me for friendship and we somehow made it to the point where I felt a friendship-like bond with her I would cherish that friendship, but I also think I am one who also desires friendships based on commonalities, but that's just me. Unfortunately, it's not often I meet women who share the same interests as me, and if I do something else happens like they have a boyfriend and it's awkward or something weird happens. It also has taken me a LONG time to finally allow women to be my friends because of my own insecurities and beliefs.... until recently have I not allowed this... but I am glad I am now that I have. Many men are NOT like me and have wanted and desired friendships with the opposite sex all their lives regardless of their sexual preference, and I know a lot now that I think about it.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Unless there is something unusual or unique about her......NO.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

calichick said:


> Like I said above, men willing to **** a walking pole, doesn't automatically imply women have it easier off. Oh big joy, that random pervy guy staring at me across the bar is willing to have sex with me...gosh how it's great to be female
> 
> :clap:boogie:yes


If easy is means having sex with a willing person of the opposite sex, then yes it does. You've attached personal standards which make it more difficult for you to have an ideal experience.


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## liilliiliilllil (Nov 3, 2009)

If she's remotely attractive, there's no chance for just friendship.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Why don't you guys make a poll or something about which sex has it easier, and quit trying to derail the original topic.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Just Lurking said:


> Why don't you guys make a poll or something about which sex has it easier, and quit trying to derail the original topic.


I think it relates to the original question.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

A not-quite-scientific but highly realistic (IMO) take on the OP's question:


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

anomalous said:


> A not-quite-scientific but highly realistic (IMO) take on the OP's question:


LOL....oh maaannnnn

Damn dude, I never really gave _too _much thought into this... this is pretty interesting stuff I must say...


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## David777 (Feb 6, 2011)

anomalous said:


> A not-quite-scientific but highly realistic (IMO) take on the OP's question:


Good Motha ****in' post!

But seriously, this video says it better than any of us ever could.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I never thought about what the girls thought about their male friends, as in what percentage of their male friends they would think would have sex with them. That kind of says a lot right there.

There is this lady at work that keeps inviting me to hang out and chill or w/e at her house (she's married and her husband will be there). I sincerely do not think she wants to hook-up with me. When she asks me I sincerely am not interested in going over there, but she is having another party soon because it's her birthday so I figured I'll show up for respect, but I'd rather stay at home or do something else.

I have another lady-friend who is my old friend's mother. Me and her got to be friends because I used to hang out a lot with her son in high school, so I got to know her as well. Now that I don't hang out with her son anymore I never go over there unless she needs help with something.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

anomalous said:


> A not-quite-scientific but highly realistic (IMO) take on the OP's question:


What does every single girl in that video have in common?

Here's a hint.



Just Lurking said:


> I'd also add here that the more conventionally attractive a girl is, the harder a time she's going to have making (straight) male friends. That's just the way it is.


What were they trying to prove there? That most guys who are "friends" with a super attractive girl would like to bang them? Well, NO S***!!


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Lottoman said:


> I guarantee you can easily find *at least* 10 million men who would immediately jump at the chance to sleep with a much older woman (say 50+) or a woman that society would typically deem very unattractive. But flip that around with a 50+ man and a very unattractive guy and the number of women who would immediately sleep with him would amount to a few hundred at best, probably a lot less. They would also be much harder to locate.


lmao you expect me to believe that. If anything it is more common for older unattractive guys to get with younger girls. I WOULD KNOW.:teeth



anomalous said:


> You think that 80-90% of guys can decide "hey, I want to bed a 6 or 7 tonight" and have it materialize with minimal effort? Even if she's shy?


I don't think that 80 to 90% of any gender can do that. Maybe in Italy. Or Sweden. But the Swedes are known for being more on the modest side. 40% of Americans are obese, that isn't a good sign..


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Just Lurking said:


> What were they trying to prove there? That most guys who are "friends" with a super attractive girl would like to bang them? Well, NO S***!!


True.

I think the interviewer was deliberately trying to prove a biased point as well (he said, "See, I told you!"). If this interview was someone with an unbiased opinion or point to prove the results would most likely be much different. To get a better opinion on this we need an unbiased and more scientific interview or study.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Yes, I do.

Some of my best friends have been female, too.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Just Lurking said:


> What does every single girl in that video have in common?
> 
> Here's a hint.
> 
> What were they trying to prove there? That most guys who are "friends" with a super attractive girl would like to bang them? Well, NO S***!!


I agree. But here's another question: how many male "friends" (emphasis on the quotes) does the typical average to above-average girl have vs. an unattractive one?

I agree that a conventionally unattractive girl has a better chance at a true platonic friendship. But, then, not that many guys are interested in that to begin with.

EDIT: And yes, obviously the video is edited and the guy set out to support a preconceived notion. I still think it accurately represents the nature of more than half of _close_ (not casual/group setting) male-female "friendships" in the college-age crowd.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

anomalous said:


> I agree. But here's another question: how many male "friends" (emphasis on the quotes) does the typical average to above-average girl have vs. an unattractive one?
> 
> I agree that a conventionally unattractive girl has a better chance at a true platonic friendship. But, then, not that many guys are interested in that to begin with.


I can't give you statistics but I would still disagree with this. I know a few unattractive women with male friends. An attractive woman may have more male friends simply because those guys want sex or a relationship, but this isn't real platonic friendship I don't think.


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## Dane (Jul 27, 2009)

Sure, I talk to women for friendship or socaibility. There a as many women as men who I consider casual friends.

It might be a little strange to have a woman as a best friend, like just the two of you doing things together, but I wouldn't really know - I've haven't had a guy "best friend" since fourth grade.

But yes, I can like a girl without being romantically interested in her, even if she is very attractive.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

bwidger85 said:


> I can't give you statistics but I would still disagree with this. I know a few unattractive women with male friends. * An attractive woman may have more male friends simply because those guys want sex or a relationship, but this isn't real platonic friendship I don't think.*


Exactly. The disparity directly illustrates what proportion of men engage in opposite-sex "friendships" for non-platonic reasons.


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## brownzerg (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm capable of a long lasting close friendship without any sexual frustration or intention..

Loneliness does tend to get in the way of that


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

This is a complicated subject.

First, the biggest area of my life that I have failed in is friendships. So, even male friendships I have had dissolved into life's busy schedule. When our paths cross again, it's as if nothing has changed, but months can go by with no contact.

Second, I've known girls, and most of the ones that are nice and friendly to me are happily married. But I have never had any friends that were single girls. Not in a friendship way of doing things together at least. In the past few years, I've gone to a movie and a bike ride with two single girls.

Are there girls you would only want to be friends with? Yes
Are there girls you would want to sleep with and couldn't stand outside of the bedroom? Yes
Would you be jealous if she started dating some other guy? That is the problem if you are still single


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

anomalous said:


> Exactly. The disparity directly illustrates what proportion of men engage in opposite-sex "friendships" for non-platonic reasons.


This could be said about an attractive male as well -- more women will be prone to want a friendship with him for sex or a relationship, so it's not just a female thing.


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## Lottoman (Nov 9, 2010)

calichick said:


> lmao you expect me to believe that. If anything it is more common for older unattractive guys to get with younger girls. I WOULD KNOW.:teeth


How is it hard to believe? Time and time again, history has shown that most men are horn dogs and would like nothing more than to get laid. There are several of them, both desperate and non-desperate who will sleep with practically any female despite age or looks. "Undesirable female" or not, you dangle the option of having free sex in front of a guy's face and nine times out of ten he will accept without a second thought.


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## offbyone (May 5, 2010)

Yes, I do.

That youtube video is ridiculous. You can be friends with someone without letting attraction get in the way and a video that cherry picks the responses of a bunch of young attractive college students doesn't really change that.

If men and women can't be "just friends" then by that logic bi people are doomed to have no friends forever and ever. You can have people of the sex you normally find attractive that you aren't attracted to for whatever reason, and you can have people of that you are attracted to. In neither case is friendship impossible unless you make it so.


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

No.

I don't go out of my way to make friends. Usually it just develops between me and people I am in contact with for whatever reason. Most women don't particularly care to be in contact with me or befriend me, so I don't do it either.


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## SocialAnxietyMC (Sep 3, 2011)

Cyber Lume said:


> I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?
> My impression was that guys pretty much only approach ladies that they are interested in romantically and/or sexually; I guess I could understand the reasoning behind that, if that's true. Still, it's a disappointing feeling at times...


Honestly it's rare for any man to pursue a friendship with a woman for pure friendship. In my case I just think it's hard to have a friendship with a woman without someone catching feelings with the other.


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## Cynical (Aug 23, 2011)

Cyber Lume said:


> I know this sounds naive, but, do you guys ever talk to a woman because you're interested in pure friendship?
> My impression was that guys pretty much only approach ladies that they are interested in romantically and/or sexually; I guess I could understand the reasoning behind that, if that's true. Still, it's a disappointing feeling at times...


LOL! I find this very very funny because I do this a lot. I have a lot of female friends so far what happened to me were either she suddenly tells me she likes me(happened once), she suddenly bugs out on me about why I'm not doing anything to her, or she ask me if I was gay...


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Lottoman said:


> How is it hard to believe? Time and time again, history has shown that most men are horn dogs and would like nothing more than to get laid. There are several of them, both desperate and non-desperate who will sleep with practically any female despite age or looks.


That's great, beautiful generalizations everyone...

Not all men are the scum of the universe.


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## Rossy (Jan 15, 2011)

^ Yes thats not me at all and I am being 100% honest.


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## Lottoman (Nov 9, 2010)

calichick said:


> That's great, beautiful generalizations everyone...
> 
> Not all men are the scum of the universe.


How does being a horndog make sommeone a scumbag?


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## Meta14 (Jan 22, 2012)

Unless we're friends via a mutual friend, usually no. Though I've only ever befriended a girl on my own once.


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## calichick (Jul 30, 2010)

Lottoman said:


> How does being a horndog make sommeone a scumbag?


this sir

_"that most men are horn dogs and would like nothing more than to get laid. There are several of them, both desperate and non-desperate who will sleep with practically any female despite age or looks."_

is the definition of SCUM.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

If I have stuff in common with her, then yeah I try to get a conversation going and maybe possible friendship - this only really happens with women that are geeky such as myself though :b I can't for the life of me maintain a conversation with an overly girly girl - conversation topics dry up fast and things get uber awkward lol.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Cynical said:


> LOL! I find this very very funny because I do this a lot. I have a lot of female friends so far what happened to me were *either she suddenly tells me she likes me(happened once), she suddenly bugs out on me about why I'm not doing anything to her, or she ask me if I was gay...*


Lol, so basically as guys we can't win either way. :teeth


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## Fenren (Sep 20, 2009)

I'd be happy to have members of the opposite sex in my life as "just friends" and nothing more. 
In answer to the question, do I chat to women with the agenda of pure friendship? No, because she probably wouldn't be interested [as well as me being too anxious to talk to them in the first place]. Same as if I approached her because I was attracted, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.


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## leave me alone (Apr 1, 2011)

Not saying it is impossible, but it is very likely atleast one person in the "friendship" will develop some sort of feelings towards the other.

So unless I dont find her interesting (this is my definition of "interesting", not the general one), I wouldnt seek a female friend.


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## AntonLaveyy (Feb 2, 2012)

I personally prefer female friends most of the time. They are generally more kind and easier to talk to about real things. I seek out girls as friends over guys because I feel like I can relate more easily. Some guys are pigs, some guys aren't, and some are in between. You can't just assume all guys only try to be friends with girls because they want to date or have sexual relations with them. I honestly would kill for a girl who would be my friend, hang out with me, and have a good laugh. Nobody will though. Boohoo:'( oh well:3


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## Cynical (Aug 23, 2011)

Paper Samurai said:


> Lol, so basically as guys we can't win either way. :teeth


In my case I made it a point to NEVER get in a relationship with a person who is a part of my circle of friends.

After a horrendous event where I dated a really close friend of mine in the group (it didn't work out, I lost her twice first as a lover then as a friend, not to mention screwing up the whole group...). That's why I adapted the saying "don't **** where you eat" unfortunately some women don't seem to take that seriously, then the other two scenario usually happens (more so on the "are you gay?" scenario)..... sux


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