# Memantine + Baclofen + Piracetam + Meclofenoxate



## Guide 4 Dummies (Nov 2, 2009)

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## soaringfalcon11 (Jun 7, 2009)

How do you afford all these drugs? And have you heard of cocaine? I hear it's great for depression!


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## Selection10 (Oct 7, 2009)

This combo is ridiculous in that there's no way in hell all of this could be used long term without some serious risks and side effects. Other than that, very creative.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Selection10 said:


> This combo is ridiculous in that there's no way in hell all of this could be used long term without some serious risks and side effects. Other than that, very creative.


That is complete nonsense.:roll Unless you can proof this claims with the allmighty concept of references. None of these meds are contraindicated.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

soaringfalcon11 said:


> How do you afford all these drugs? And have you heard of cocaine? I hear it's great for depression!


I hope your joking lol, if not err do not attempt


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

Baclofen induced dopamine rebound is very interesting.
it should work in a similar way with GHB dopamine rebound. both are GABA-B agonists.
however i haven't the courage to test it now.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> Baclofen induced dopamine rebound is very interesting.
> it should work in a similar way with GHB dopamine rebound. both are GABA-B agonists.
> however i haven't the courage to test it now.


AFAIK GHB dopamine rebound is nonsense, i havent seen any evidence for that, besides GHB increases dopamine itself.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> AFAIK GHB dopamine rebound is nonsense, i havent seen any evidence for that, besides GHB increases dopamine itself.


what do you think about baclofen dopamine rebound?
do you have any experience with it?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Ehsan said:


> what do you think about baclofen dopamine rebound?
> do you have any experience with it?


Dont know much about it, never had any experience with baclofen, dont really see a need for it either as i can get GHB.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Ehsan said:


> Baclofen induced dopamine rebound is very interesting. it should work in a similar way with GHB dopamine rebound. both are GABA-B agonists.


Both baclofen and GHB are indeed GABA-B agonists, but GHB is additionally a GHB receptor agonist. GHB receptor activation increases the release of dopamine, so this is more likely where GHB's dopaminergic effects stem from.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

how do you explain Guide_4_Dummies's experience with baclofen?


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## rawrguy (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm on pramipexole and I've had absolutely *NO* problems with anhedonia once I completely adjusted


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## rawrguy (Mar 29, 2008)

Selection10 said:


> Maybe the anhedonia issues comes down to dosage. What dose are you on?


Actually, I partially retract that statement. I have anhedonia, but it is tolerable. I was on 1.5mg for 5 weeks, but now I've dropped down to 0.75mg because I'm running out and waiting for a new batch.


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## Ehsan (Mar 21, 2009)

yesterday i tried baclofen induced dopamine rebound hypothesis.
i took high dose of baclofen(without memantine) but i didn't feel any dopaminergic activity other than headache and vertigo.
maybe memantine interaction with baclofen is responsible for effects that Guide_for_Dummies has reported or maybe everyone is different in this case.
=======================================================
sometimes i think i response differently to dopaminergics maybe due to lack of dopamine production and synthesis inside my brain.
however i should try potent dopamine releasers like amphetamines to test this hypothesis.
once i took 50mg metoclopramide(D2/3 antagonist) to tests its effect on dopamine release. surprisingly i developed a very intense distress and anxiety after several hours that continued for 2-3 days.
those days were among worst days in my life.
the experience was something similar to Dopamine Depletion experience described below:


> *Study Shows Acute Dopamine Depletion Can Create Psychological Distress*
> 
> _Dopamine plummets after orgasm.
> _
> ...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

G4D said he thinks its an interaction betw memantine and baclofen.


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

so, has there been any further clarification about memantine + baclofen's efficacy here?

___
EDIT: found some later threads pertaining to G4D's experiences with baclofen (moving away from meclofenoxate etc.) at mind & muscle forums... not sure if i'm allowed to post links in here. 

cheers,
-Z


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

ah... gees.
sorry to hear that, G4D!

did you end up dropping everything else besides the baclo + memantine in the end? not much luck with piracetam and the like with that combo?

there was a period in the thread/updates where i could've sworn you had the tolerance issue down pat, despite it being rather tricky... and in doing so, actually did away with the negative symptoms etc.


well, an unfortunate outcome.. though certainly one to learn from and get stronger over. do you have any other related ideas in mind for trial these days? (besides, of course, always striving to become better at SA mentally ). in retrospect, would you attribute baclofen's initial positive effects to a dopamine reaction, or otherwise?

also,
did anything promising ever come about from D-cycloserine, as far as you've heard/tried?


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

have you ever tried 3-4g piracetam + 10-20mg memantine just on their own? they are, in effect, supposed to be very synergistic... though it probably won't tell ya much of anything new, since you say you became sort of a non-responder to piracetam even though you were taking memantine the entire time with the old stack (who knows which of the uber-complex reasons was responsible for the non-responding.. there's threads upon threads everywhere speculating about this phenomenon ).

there is definitely something to be taken away from how baclofen affected you so differently -- towards the overall scheme of things for your solution. though i can only but speculate what that may be.  was it literally a stimulation right from the onset? or more like a 6-hour-delayed one? either way, it may have stemmed from a type of downstream dopamine activation -- and if that's the case, that would be rather difficult to replicate properly with straight dopaminergics/agonists/MAOI's etc.

either way, if you consult any medical practitioners about this, be sure to mention it!

feel free to keep posting related updates..

-z


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> have you ever tried 3-4g piracetam + 10-20mg memantine just on their own? they are, in effect, supposed to be very synergistic..


Say hello to the guy that took 20gram piracetam + 80mg memantine for a couple of days as an experiment (dont try at home kids!).

Right now i stabilised on 60mg of memantine and will add 2 gram of piracetam soon, the magedoses where to see wheter there was some merit to it or wheter the ppl liking them just became manic (i gues they became manic and memantine kept my mood stable) so i stopped the piracetam once i was adapted to memantine (actually ran out) however 80mg was a bit too much and made me feel like i ended up on some wierd space mission, 60mg mem is fine without any side effects for me now!


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Right now i stabilised on 60mg of memantine and will add 2 gram of piracetam soon,


ah.. 60mg memantine alone without side effects?! sounds crazy, did it take a few weeks to adapt?



crayzyMed said:


> Say hello to the guy that took 20gram piracetam + 80mg memantine for a couple of days as an experiment (dont try at home kids!).


hah - whoa. i know that high plasma levels aren't a concern with piracetam, but what about glutamatergic excitotoxicity at 20g?! and also, that last part sounds almost sarcastic  -- seriously, almighty random readers  Do Not just up and try something like ^that randomly.. heh!


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

Has anyone tried galantamine with memantine? It's an a7 nicotinic agonist/PAM, so would theoretically counteract the brainfog and/or other side effects associated with memantine's antagonism (also being a weak AChE inhibitor). I heard it improved negative schizophrenic symptoms in a study, such as anhedonia (a7 receptors enhance DA release, AFAIK).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> did it take a few weeks to adapt?


No, i went from 40 to 80mg in one day, i also used megadoses of piracetam to buffer out the side effects, i did have double vision and felt dizzy at times, but the piracetam has prevented most of the side effects, after a week i was fully adapted altough 80mg felt like too much without piracetam (felt like i was on a weird space mission at times) now on 60mg i am 100% side effect free! Only more clarity, and an unusual increase in motivation.

I'l copy another post of me:
Ive discovered that at 60mg of memantine /day i feel unusually motivated i attribute this to increased density of several dopamine receptors and increased facilation of dopamine synthesis.

Couple refs:
(PMID: 1382178) Chronic administration of NMDA antagonists induces D2 receptor synthesis in rat.
_D2 binding studies carried out in MK-801 chronically treated (0.3 mg/kg/day per os, for 50 days) and control rats revealed an increased receptor density in treated animals without a significant change in receptor affinity._

(PMID: 10443547) Adaptations of NMDA and dopamine D2, but not of muscarinic receptors _following 14 days administration of uncompetitive NMDA receptor antagonists.
The same treatment with amantadine did increase [3H]raclopride binding to dopamine D2 receptors by 13.5%._

(PMID: 12832726 Effect of combined treatment with imipramine and amantadine on the central dopamine D2 and D3 receptors in rats.
_We can conclude that repeated administration of AMA, given together with IMI, induces the up-regulation of dopamine D2 and D3 receptors in the rat brain._

(PMID: 10096038) Modulation of dopamine D2 receptor expression by an NMDA receptor antagonist in rat brain.
_In the striatum, a significant increase in striatal dopamine D2 receptor mRNA levels was shown in animals treated with CPP._

And it appears that NMDA antagonists facilate aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase and tyrosine hydroxylase.



> Dizocilpine enhances striatal tyrosine hydroxylase and aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase activity
> 
> Maria Hadjiconstantinoua, b, c, , *, Zvani L. Rossettib, Trina A. Wemlingerb and Norton H. Neffc, b
> a Department of Psychiatry, The Ohio State University College of Medicine, 333 W. 10th Avenue, Columbus, OH 43210, USA
> ...





> Effects of glutamate antagonists on the activity of aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase
> 
> Abstract
> This study examines the hypothesis that glutamate tonically suppresses the activity of the enzyme aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase (AADC), and hence the biosynthesis of dopamine, to explain how antagonists of glutamate receptors might potentiale the motor actions of L-DOPA in animal models of Parkinson's disease. A variety of glutamate antagonists were therefore administered acutely to normal rats, which were sacrificed 30-60 min later and AADC activity assayed in the substantia ***** pars reticulate (SNr) and corpus striatum (CS). The NMDA receptor-ion channel antagonists MK 801, budipine, amantadine, memantine and dextromethorphan all caused a pronounced in creased in AADC activity, more especially in the SNr than CS. The NMDA glycine site antagonist (R)-HA 966 produced a modest increase in AADC activity in the CS but not SNr, whilst the NMDA polyamine site antagonist eliprodil, the NMDA competitive antagonist CGP 40116 and the AMPA antagonist NBQX were without effect. The results suggest that an increase in dopamine synthesis might contribute to the L-DOPA-facilitating actions of some glutamate antagonists.


This would make memantine an interesting candidate for people that have motivational problems, i would expect the effects to last since NMDA antagonism also increases dopamine receptor mRNA expression, most benefits might even come from the increased dopamine sensivity.



> Do Not just up and try something like ^that randomly.. heh!


Definatly yeah, you need to have extensive knowledge of pharmacology before trying something like this, as excitoxiticy may be a concern with megadosis of piracetam (but that is debatable since it acts as an antioxidant and anxtioxidants have a protective role.). Also memantine should have prevented mania by keeping my mood stable, i now feel such large doses of piracetam arent needed and that those that were raving about it just got manic, nonetheless i wanted to try.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

euphoria said:


> Has anyone tried galantamine with memantine? It's an a7 nicotinic agonist/PAM, so would theoretically counteract the brainfog and/or other side effects associated with memantine's antagonism (also being a weak AChE inhibitor). I heard it improved negative schizophrenic symptoms in a study, such as anhedonia (a7 receptors enhance DA release, AFAIK).


I have tried it with memantine, however i was allready adapated when i added it in, i ran out but will readd it again soon. It shows synergy with nicotine in several study's wich is interesting. Nicotine is a full agonist at A7 and 2 other nicotine receptors wich can also facilate dopamine.


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

good point there, euphoria... it's been forever since i had any galantamine around, but people left and right are digging up that specific nAChr effect of it (and the benefits thereof) lately.. for everything from smoking cessation to, as you mentioned, synergy with memantine etc.

so definitely worth some consideration!


motivation is a huge factor to slightly enhance and maintain for me (chemically--the mental part is obviously the other half of the battle  but i've gotten that down) and i'm sure i'm not the only one in that boat... so any experiences/ideas pertaining to it are welcomed as always.

and yeah, crayzy - that adds up with what you wrote out originally, i must have not read thoroughly enough. thanks for the additional literature, as well - good stuff.


cheers,
-z


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