# Being an Athiest and Having Kids



## erinpade (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey Everyone!
First I want a say what a relief it is to be able to communicate with other non-religious people. Sometimes I feel like such an outsider, and I NEVER talk about my beliefs because most people don't share them. I think being an athiest just strengthens my social anxiety.
Anyway, I have a dilemma right now related to my daughter. She has just started elementary school here in Germany, and here they don't separate church and state. What that means is, they have religion lessons in school. I am a bit unsure about what to do. It has never been my intention to teach my daughter that there is no God, because I feel like each person has to decide what they beleive on their own. As a child I was given the freedom--my parents didn't go to church, but I was allowed to go with my friends, and I even went myself for a couple of years when I wasn't totally clear about what I believed. Still, the idea of my daughter learning about religion worries me, especially since they specifically teach Christianity. If it was a class about all beliefs I wouldn't be so worried about it. I just know how impressionable 7 year olds can be, and I feel like if she is told something enough times she will start to believe it, and won't have a chance to form her own opinion. I have the choice to take her out of religion and have her join another class during that time, but I worry that she will feel different because no other kid in her class does that. I know how different I feel when I am in a room full of religious people who are talking about church or something and I am just sitting there trying not to be noticed!! I guess that's the ultimate dilemma when it comes to kids. I don't want my daughter to be an outsider, but I also don't want her to conform just to be accepted. What do you all think?


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

How bad are the schools there? Do they try and teach creationism in a science classroom?

I know what it feels like to feel like an outsider surrounded by a bunch of religious people day in and day out.


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## erinpade (Oct 2, 2013)

No, I'm pretty sure those two subjects are taught in isolation, thankfully! The schools are pretty bad here in general though. Very old fashioned approach. It's funny too, I though Americans were the big religious fanatics, but I've met more religious people here than I did back home. Christianity pretty much pervades the entire culture here.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't think it will do her any harm, unless it's the "fire-and-brimstone" type. Just let her know that this is what some people believe, and she can learn about it without believing it. Let her know that you don't believe it; but you know about it. It's simply an exercise in understanding other subcultures.


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## Richard Pawgins (Jul 11, 2013)

my nephew is 8 and knows all about the "christian God" thanks to his mother.


What are u gonna do?


I personally think you should expose a child to all ideas and philosophies, but it's important not to indoctrinate them with and put so called facts in their little minds that aren't actually "facts" (religion)


Their minds aren't developed enough to make a cognitive decision on the matter anyway, at this point they'll believe anything that is told to them


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## hammerfast (Mar 8, 2012)

ahhh , take it easy , I knew some staunch Christians in Canada that made more fun of Christianity than the so called atheists , prime example is singer adam gontier


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## Pig678 (Aug 21, 2013)

Agreed, christianity poisons the world.


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## TerminalBlue (Feb 7, 2013)

Personally, I think its more important at this young of an age to be socializing and not feeling different than everyone else. I'd say teach your child how to think but not what to think. So that way, when they get older and can make up their own mind, they will be able to figure it out for themselves. 

Maybe just probe her with questions as time goes on that will make her think. Critical thinking is more important.


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## Ramondo (Feb 16, 2011)

Also, not sure about your Church/State separation. What denomination is the state - Catholic, Lutheran, Evangelical? What brand of Christianity is your child learning? Also, there's a difference between learning _about _religion and being indoctrinated. There's probably not enough information to say whether I'd 
keep my child out of this class.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

Help her learn about other religions/beliefs at home, so she doesn't get the idea that christianity is the only option. If she knows a variety of beliefs, she can't be fooled by false choices or the assumption of a particular dogma over others.


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

*Excellent*

You've chosen not to choose LIFE for dummies

Although it goes just slightly against my basic principles
Of not doing what everyone does. Indivuality and Creativity implementation is somewhat lost when possibly another **** sapiens might have actually done that before... It's a bit boring

Fomatting a fresh disk as a copy of yourself. I have a big problem with the word d'avoir
Having une bebe... It's a very generalistic oversused word. Have a handbag? Want one? Want to own it? Have one. Gain ownership? What about a meaningful phrase for producing?

In Mammalism, a bit like a robot programmed to forge a duplicate? Nothing to be done. Make some more. Pop

Society members just climb the scale by not lifting a finger. Just do... The... Ummmmmmmmm... Same.

Offspring serves as personal cocaine


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

If I was in that situation, I would let my child know about all the different kind of beliefs and philosophies out there (obviously giving simple explanations, if they are young). It would let him/her know that Christianity is not a default or right belief, but rather one opinion among many, and hopefully showing how different and diverse religion is, they would start to use critical thinking when being presented with religion. 

When I was growing up, I wasn't taught about Christianity, but it definitely was still ingrained in me, because I only knew about Christianity and assumed it was the default religion. It was only until I started looking into different religions on my own that I realized that wasn't the case, and started looking at it all critically. I remember when I first looked into paganism, I was actually afraid to believe something different, since no one else seemed to believe in anything different. And of course, even though I didn't grow up learning about it, I still had the "I'll go to hell if I believe in anything different than Jesus", so it was hard for me to really delve into different stuff. That's why I think it's really important to share to children that there are many different religions, not just christianity. Because even if they aren't expressly raised in it, they might still grow up thinking it's the only option, and any other option is "bad" or taboo. 

And it wouldn't hurt to share your disbeliefs and thoughts with her, either. I agree that you don't want to proclaim it as truth, since you want her to make up her own mind. But you'd be giving her an example of someone who has their own opinion, different from the norm, and that it's okay for her to think/believe differently as well, if she decides to.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

My dad is an atheist and when I was growing up....oof...the word christian was like a swear word in our house. He loved to talk about how the Romans fed christians to the lions.


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## PerfectlyIsolated (Oct 12, 2013)

I think the key thing you can do is make sure you daughter understands its okay to think critically, to question, to challenge and learns about history and human nature in a very candid, transparent fashion. Obviously much of these concepts are very hard for children (let alone for adults) to wrap their head around. But the sooner she knows that what is being taught isn't the only option, and that having guilt, shame or threat of eternal damnation as incentive to believe something is wrong, the better she will be able to come to her own decision about what (if any) religious faith she decides to believe in. I think a secular religious studies class (where one learns about all religions) would be very beneficial as it would provide great perspective. Perhaps that could be an option when she gets older.

Are there any secular schools in your country? It seems odd that having your child participate in an educational institution affiliated with Christianity is the ONLY option available. I guess this would be similar to how religious families enroll their children in private, faith based schools over private schools in the United States.

But again, the key is making sure that she is never, ever afraid to think critically, to challenge and never be manipulated into something she doesn't want to be a part of in the first place.


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## LynnNBoys (Jul 13, 2011)

My younger son was greatly influenced by peers when he was 6-7 years old. He came home saying that he sort of believed in god. I think because his 2 friends believe in god. But around 8 years old, they can begin to think more critically.

I have a children's book of World Religions that I read with my sons anytime they have questions. We talk a lot about religious references that come up in books, television, or movies. I always start our conversations with, "Some people believe...X. I believe...Y because...Z." I take them through the steps of thinking logically about whatever Christian myth has come up. I also read them stories of Greek mythology and compared it to Christianity. Teach her to question everything, to seek answers.

I also have many science books for young kids. I can find the links if you're interested. I have ones about evolution, about gravity, what is energy, about the moon and space, etc. My younger son loves to find out how things work so we find out together.

I'd talk with her often about anything she's being taught in her religion lesson. If it's just, Love your neighbor, I wouldn't worry too much. But if they try to teach the Christian myth, be sure to counter it with logic and reasoning.

My younger son has almost taken it to the other end. He never liked Batman, Superman, or Spider-man because they're not real. His favorite TV show is Mythbusters (he's 9 years old now).


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## Leslie4277 (Nov 9, 2013)

*I don't have kids yet, but I have theories*

My husband and I do not have children yet, but we plan to in the next few years. We are both atheists and are thinking a lot about how we want to raise them. I was raised by parents who are loosely religious, as in they believe there is some form of life after death, but not into organized religion whatsoever. We never went to church growing up and they always told me they wanted me to decide for myself what to believe. A lot of times, I felt uncomfortable because I didn't know any other non-religious people as a kid and, growing up in Texas, there were a lot of kids that told me I was going to hell and stuff like that. I went to public school, so there was no religion class or school prayer, thankfully, but I did feel uncomfortable saying the part of the pledge that says "under god," because I didn't believe in any god. I also grew up with a lot of difficult family issues that I believe contributed to my SA and other problems. As SA sufferers I think most of us fear being seen as "different," but of course everyone is different and at some point in their lives everyone will feel different and uncomfortable for one reason or another. I think the important thing is that you do everything you can to help your kids feel confident and comfortable in their own skin. The fact is most people are religious and we have to teach our kids to be comfortable living in that reality, while deciding for themselves what they believe and knowing it is ok to do that. I think as an atheist it is important to be respectful of religious people and learn to interact with them (because let's face it they're the majority) while still being true to our beliefs and having the courage not to feel like we need to hide or that we should be ashamed. This is something I am continuing to work on. I am trying to cultivate an attitude of "yeah, I am an atheist. So what?" I have a right to my beliefs just as much as religious people do and I am resolved not to let the fact that they are in the majority and many of them have this evangelical agenda make ME feel uncomfortable? On the contrary, why shouldn't they feel uncomfortable for trying to impose their beliefs on me? Of course I want my children to decide their religion for themselves, and if they do chose agnosticism/atheism I want to make sure they are prepared for the fact that they will be in the minority, but that it is OK, and prepare them to deal with people challenging their beliefs. I want them to know it is OK to be different. I don't think there is a right or wrong decision- letting your child stay in the class or taking her out- maybe you should ask her? It may make her feel empowered to make her own choices about religion among other things. My parents did not teach me to stand up for myself, that is something I am having to try to teach myself. I imagine if I had experienced a different upbringing and I was taught to value myself and my opinions, I wouldn't have felt so anxious about the Christian kids "finding me out," maybe I would have felt more comfortable about being an atheist growing up.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Is it that bad that kids learn about Christianity OP? You made your own choice when you grew up. Your child will do the same.


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## Richard Pawgins (Jul 11, 2013)

I'm intrigued by this book _(even tho i don't have kids and never will, unless I somehow get rich and can afford them)_will read it as soon as I finish the others in my backlog.
*

Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion - Dale McGowan *









*Foreword by Michael Shermer, Ph.D. Contributors include Richard Dawkins, Penn Jillette, and Julia Sweeney. *

A large and growing number of parents are choosing to raise their kids without religion. In _Parenting Beyond Belief, _Dale McGowan celebrates the freedom that comes with raising kids without formal indoctrination and advises parents on the most effective way to raise freethinking children.

With advice from educators, doctors, psychologists, and philosophers as well as wisdom from everyday parents, the book offers tips and insights on a variety of topics, from "mixed marriages" to coping with death and loss, and from morality and ethics to dealing with holidays. Sensitive and timely, _Parenting Beyond Belief_ features reflections from such freethinkers as Mark Twain, Richard Dawkins, Bertrand Russell, and Dr. Don Ardell that will empower every parent to raise both caring and independent children without constraints. _Amazon_

File size: 1 MB
Format: pdf



> http://www21.zippyshare.com/v/13226465/file.html


or


> http://ulozto.net/xkATN7Yt/dale-mcgowan-parenting-beyond-belief-rar


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## TiredTracy (Nov 14, 2013)

I would be worried too. Something about it being part of her school day gives it a relevance and an authority that I do not like. The truth is, she is going to feel "different" either way if she winds up atheist. I would be more inclined to switch classes for that hour and leave the difference minimal. Otherwise, I would feel compelled to counter everything she was being taught, and that would not be good for me, for her, for her teacher, etc.


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## Mcquiz (Jul 31, 2013)

I'd also go with teaching her about other religions too and to make sure she has critical thinking. I didn't learn anything about religion in school until I was 16 and by that time it was nice to understand different cultures better. From what I can tell here there are 2 kinds of relgious people: intelligent ones who still have critical thinking and don't shove their beliefs down anyone's throats and then there are the brainwashed. Just to be clear religious people make up only around 20-22 percent of the population here.


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## Hindsight (Nov 26, 2013)

Inform her that topics relating to religion are "interpreted", from their original source.

And this interpretation causes all kinds of, fairytale like stories.

after years and years of translations, religion is what you interpret it, it's not set in stone


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## shyguyred (Jul 26, 2013)

That's one of the reasosn I don't want to have kids,i don't want them to deal with the hatred and discrimination many religious people promote.ii have had to deal with a lot of it because im openly atheistic.if someone tells me to prey to god I go no I don't want to,if they continue to ask me ill tell them why and speak my mind a lot of people cant deal with this and will harress and I say to bad deal with it.i can say and belive whatever I want and im not goanna be censored by christens and gulited into following along with the establishment.Some one has to burst there bubble so they can reflect about what they,say and it becomes more socially acceptable to not be religious so other atheists don't have to undergo discrimination.i have had people following me around trying to convert me sending me letters and I take my time to explain to them why I belive there religion to be fictional.Just like they take the time to try to explain why they belive it and I should to.


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## Grog (Sep 13, 2013)

I suggest let her do the classes and alike and she'll make her own decisions .
A decision with knowledge is often the right one for the person making it .


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## nature (Feb 28, 2014)

I dont think it hurts to go to a class like that only cause it develops critical thinking when u talk to them abt it. For instance, if she says somthing like ....my teacher said God will punish you.. You have an opportunity to help her understand that diff people have diff beliefs and you can go on to talk abt other world religions. .. Im sticking by my motto... If you dont make it a big deal, it wont become one.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm a recovering Catholic. Catholicism was pretty much rammed down my throat while growing up, with CCE and lock-in retreats every other weekend, and the never-ending guilt that comes with, well, being Catholic. I'm sure that I'm going to burn in hell and be tortured for eternity, yet at the same time there's a God that unconditionally loves me and forgives all my sins. Wtf. 

Me and my exwife decided long ago to choose to allow our kids to decide what they believe . I identify most with the Unitarian Universalist church. Though some of the members scare the **** out of me.

At the end of the day I think you have the biggest influence on your children. What you teach them at home, how you think, what you feel, is going to matter to them more than what they learn at school.


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