# Glutamine + Lecithin or Gaba + Acetycholine



## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

I started to take this combo. I think everybody has his or her own nature and it is just how we are and also depends on how we are raised.

These define who I am,

1) Poor verbal skills
2) A little bit eccentric
3) High motivation and competitive
4) Prefer individual sports
5) Perfectionist
6) Care too much what people think
7) Lack of confidence
8)Self-critical
9) Afraid of failure
10) Pessimistic

And when I read how neurotransmitters may effect the personality or at least how they act at http://www.spwb.com/articles/brainarticle.html

I have decided I am Gaba and acetylcholine deficient whereas I have high dopamine.

I think my fear of failures, my lack of social skills and foggy mind is caused by acetylcholine deficiency.

Gaba deficiency is the cause of my lack of confidence and why I care too much what people think.

My perfectionist, highly motivated, rational nature and extreme libido is probably due to high dopamine.

So glutamine is the precursor of Gaba and Lecithin has two things inositol which increases Gaba and choline which is necessary for acetylcholine.

I think there are many people who are like me here. And most of us like valerian, kava kava, pycamillon, alcohol which increase the Gaba.

And choline, acety-l-carnitine, lecithin etc. which increases acetycholine.

Glutamine is also good for building muscles and lecithin is good for losing fat, reducing cholesterol.

The good thing for me is that I did not need a nap today and was very energetic. Besides this I am usually so focused on myself that I cant notice things around me but today I was attentive. So I am going to keep taking these.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

What kind of choline are you taking? if you take lecithing AND choline together, you'll doubling up on choline. Maybe get some CDP choline instead. That seems to be the most potent one. I stopped taking lecithin as it has many fats I don't want and it seems to make me depressed. Besides, we don't understand how neurotransmitters work together to produce specific effects. With that said, no one knows exactly what will happen if we try to raise one of two alone.

Actually, look at the side effects produced by antidepressants that only raise serotonin. I remember having vivid dreams, depersonalization, apathy and feeling indifferent to everything.

Keep us posted on how this works for you on the long run!


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

No I am just taking lecithin no choline. It helps with my digestion too this way. 

I feel that there is no other way. Either something like this works or I will be the same again.

I have been always good in physics or math, but never could write an essay. I can memorize words of another language easily but I can not express myself. I usually solve the hardest question on exam but shake when I have to explain it in front of the class. I believe now this is how my brain works. 

For insulin resistance I have to increase my muscle and reduce fat starting from my liver so I think these two will work also for it.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

If you have deficient choline this is probably due to deficient thiamin.



> Micheau J, Durkin TP, Destrade C, Rolland Y, Jaffard R.
> 
> Thiamine deficiency in both man and animals is known to produce memory dysfunction and cognitive disorders which have been related to an impairment of cholinergic activity. The present experiment was aimed at testing whether, inversely, chronic administration of large doses of sulbutiamine would have a facilitative effect on memory and would induce changes in central cholinergic activity. Accordingly mice received 300 mg/kg of sulbutiamine daily for 10 days. They were then submitted to an appetitive operant level press conditioning test. When compared to control subjects, sulbutiamine treated mice learned the task at the same rate in a single session but showed greatly improved performance when tested 24 hr after partial acquisition of the same task. Parallel neurochemical investigations showed that the treatment induced a slight (, 10%) but significant increase in hippocampal sodium-dependent high affinity choline uptake. The present findings and previous results suggest that sulbutiamine improves memory formation and that this behavioral effect could be mediated by an increase in hippocampal cholinergic activity.


Also

Impairment of behavior and acetylcholine metabolism in thiamine deficiency

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/conte ... /217/3/537
"Thiamine deficiency induces an early functionally significant central muscarinic cholinergic lesion."


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> Actually, look at the side effects produced by antidepressants that only raise serotonin. I remember having vivid dreams, depersonalization, apathy and feeling indifferent to everything.


I think my brain will produce serotonin when I get succesful in the social life.If I have a girlfriend or when I can speak up in class my brain will produce it because I will be happier.

Serotonin may work only for people who are very unhappy for no reason 
which is not related to me and as far as I know to you.

Maybe I should not have released the info if it works I could have made some money just like the guys who invented niacin plus Gaba

Actually we also dont know which brain chemicals carnosine or taurine effect or if taking too much magnesium would affect our iron absorbtion in the long run. But we check ourselves and see their effects.

I have always liked taking lecithin, glutamine but never took them together. And although lecithin has some fats nothing works like choline or lecithin for my belly.

So I am going to give them a try together and see how it goes.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

I have tried thiamine. On paper thiamine looked like just what I needed most but when I took it I got very shaky probably it effected my blood sugar, maybe lowered it too much when I was hypo.

The thing is maybe I am not choline deficient, because pantothenic acid or acetyl-l-carnitine also work for me. What I mean is I can focus better and study longer hours when I take them.

And Glutamine is the most abundant amino in muscle, which always reduced my recovery time. I am going to take higher amounts this time. 

For the people who think I am trying to cure this only by taking two pills, I would like to say that I changed my diet, the way and frequency I eat, my work out schedule. But I see really unhealthy fat people who are very funny, has many friends do not care how they look or what people think. Then I think this is how his personality is or how his parents raised him.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I didn't know where else to post this. But, the reason high dopamine persons have such high libido is because dopamine inhibits prolactin. In guys, prolactin is released after ejaculation and causes the flaccidity we often experience. So, prolactin is responsible for the resolution period after orgasm. If you want to be greedy and go again and again just lower prolactin levels. I do this by taking plenty 'o' tyrosine before hand. Vitex (chaste berry) in high doses can also lower prolactin significantly 

Can you tell me more about your experience with thiamine? how much were you taking? what type? Thiamine is needed for glucose metabolism so it DID probably lower your sugar too much which turned on your sympathetic system. That may have caused the shakiness....


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

I took thiamine almost two years ago. I was taking one pill with meals but I do not remember how much it was.

And from acu-cell

Anxiety causes: High/low calcium, high/low magnesium, high/low potassium, high iodine, high sodium, high nickel, high cobalt, high phosphorus, high Vitamin B1, high Vit B6, high Vit B12, low PABA, low Vit B2, low Vit B5, low B15, low coenzyme Q10.

For example "In theory, pantothenic acid(vit b5) and dexpanthenol may increase the effects of cholinesterase inhibitor drugs (including multiple Alzheimer's drugs) by increasing production of acetylcholine, leading to potentially dangerous side effects."

from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... minb5.html


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Just got my order in. I took a sublingual coenzymated B1 and it made me feel calm. It would be best to get tested for a deficiency, but I don't have access to that now


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I read that when correcting a thiamin deficiency, patients will usually feel worse before they feel better as the body attemps to re-establish homeostasis. Maybe that was your experience?


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Thank you for the information and the link proximo. When I wanted to boost my brain activity, I started to read alot about the brain food and diet to boost up my mental performance. And eating the right thing and taking right vitamins did change me.
Although I have tried lots of different things lately and some day is better and the other is not so I am yet not sure whats the right diet. But one day was amazing when I felt that 24 hours was like 24 days. It felt like every minute counted and gave me something. As much as I can remember I had no fear this day and my mind was clear. I was open minded and it felt great. I was doing alot and I learned a lot and when I looked time, only 10 minutes was passed. I was like what ? It felt like I was doing it for 2 hours.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

ju_pa said:


> I was open minded and it felt great. I was doing alot and I learned a lot and when I looked time, only 10 minutes was passed. I was like what ? It felt like I was doing it for 2 hours.


I know this feeling. It happens to me all the time when I have a girlfriend


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Just pumping the thread. I started taking the Spectrum Q10 vitamins that are high in B-s and they should be like lecithin (I am not sure actually) But several days I have been taking those vitamins to empty stomach with juice and the effects have shown off extremely well. 
Something that I have noticed: 
Looking into eyes with no fear and I am not the first one anymore to turn away when looking deeply into girls eyes. 
Yesterday at the bus stop I missed the bus (bus didn't stop because no one started to act like going onto the bus) and as soon as I noticed it don't open the doors I put my arms into the air and waived although there were people looking at me. Usually I would have done nothing and started to panic that "oh others saw I missed the bus. They must think I am dumb or something".
My communication has gotten better. I can express myself more effectively. The right words just seem to flow.
I used to fear a lot. Fear rates have gone down.
I am more open-minded.

I did noticed some changed when I took vitamins to full stomach but as soon as I started to take those with empty stomach, they have worked much better. When I my Spectrum Q10 ends I will buy some real lecithin and see what better results I may get if I am not getting full effects already.

Oh one effect more: seems like my english has gotten better. I still make a lot of mistakes but I don't rewrite the text 20 times to get it "perfect".

Well, thats it. Thanks proximo. If I haven't got the information I would have still been taking the vitamins with full stomach and wouldn't known about dopamine, gaba, acetylcholine and serotonin.

Best wishes to all. You all should try those supplementals. I have long way to go still but the start has showed good results.

:lol Before I started to write it I thought I will just say: "Just pumping the thread."


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

I bought Lecithin today but I am bit curious if this is actually better than the one I took before (Q10 multi-vitamins). 
I bought B-vitamin+Lecithin capsules where is 100mg lecithin and about 1-2mg of B vitamins. 

What is the amount of lecithing, B vitamins and Gluathotine one should take in a day ?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

I was taking 3*1200 mg. of lecithin. Too much of it can also cause insomnia but you better follow the instructions on your bottle.

About glutathione, everyone says that l-glutathione form does not work because it is a big molecule and can not enter to cells.

I ordered some reduced form, which has some pretty good reviews. 
I will share my experiences.


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## Pharao (Jun 10, 2004)

proximo -- do you mind clarifying the supplements you're taking that you mentioned in this thread...some things i wasnt completely clear on whether they were an actual supplement or a chemical that your brain produces.

can you mention the supplements you're reffering to in this thread that you're taking? thank you!!


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

proximo20 said:


> I was taking 3*1200 mg. of lecithin. Too much of it can also cause insomnia but you better follow the instructions on your bottle.
> 
> About glutathione, everyone says that l-glutathione form does not work because it is a big molecule and can not enter to cells.
> 
> ...


 :eek 3600mg a day. On my bottle it says not to over take the recommended intake in a day. I wonder why it's there. It contains only 100mg lecithin and bunch of B-s from 1-2 mg.

But thanks. I can imagine what 1200mg lecithin can do.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

The supplements are glutamine and lecithin but now I know why I benefited from them. If you read the link I sent you can try different supplements to increase acetylcholine and gaba. Acetyl-l-carnitine, choline, dmae...

The thing is glutamine increases glutathione and lecithin is good for cognitive performance.

But if you want to learn what causes these deficiencies in the first place you should check the glutathione thread.

My problems are clearly related to glutathione deficiency and consequent th1/th2 imbalance.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Proximo, you ordered glutathione in smaller forms. Do they work ?

Looks like glutamine and lecithin were enough for you in previous threads but I was wondering if you take anything more by now ? Any multi vitamins or they are useless ?


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm on 1200mg lecithin also now. But when I take them first thing in the morning I get this urge to throw up. Luckily I haven't yet . 

Does anyone else take lecithin first thing in the morning and do you also get this urge to throw up (It's not a feeling of throwing up but more like any second it will happen!). On the bottle it says to take before eating. Probably put there because of that. I wonder if anyone have found a good "snack" to take after lecithin capsule.


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## 40watta (Oct 12, 2008)

ju-pa what brand are you taking?

I just ordered a bottle of this along with acetyl l carnitine
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/lecithingels.html


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

40watta said:


> ju-pa what brand are you taking?
> 
> I just ordered a bottle of this along with acetyl l carnitine
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/lecithingels.html


It's Walmark. http://www.walmark.ee/index.php?go=file&data_field=pic1&db=product&id=38

I wonder if there is any difference in those capsules. I suppose yours are also soft capsules. They are made from soybean and not much is added so.. should be same


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Depends on the brand. I've tried several and most taste like A** and are not effective. Only the "good N natural" brand worked for me.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

It's official now. I suppouse it's not because I took it on empty stomach but about the brand. I read that a lot of people take it on an empty stomach and never feel sick. But 2 days ago when I first took it on empty stomach I got really sick and could hold it back by eating bread as fast as I could. Today I thought and waited about 30-45m after waking up to be sure my body has waked up and is ready to take it. But the same thing happened and this time couldn't stop it.

Thanks again telling about the granules. Lecithins has worked really well for me (Lecithin + B-vitamin complex with CoQ10).


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

ju_pa said:


> It's official now. I suppouse it's not because I took it on empty stomach but about the brand. I read that a lot of people take it on an empty stomach and never feel sick. But 2 days ago when I first took it on empty stomach I got really sick and could hold it back by eating bread as fast as I could. Today I thought and waited about 30-45m after waking up to be sure my body has waked up and is ready to take it. But the same thing happened and this time couldn't stop it.
> 
> Thanks again telling about the granules. Lecithins has worked really well for me (Lecithin + B-vitamin complex with CoQ10).


Could you write the brand you use? Maybe something in it is causing the problem?
And are you sure that you dont have allergy to soy?

Check also the expiration date.

By the way the first tablet you used might be better. Because B vitamins have synergistic and antagonsit effects on each other so if you think the lecithin with other vitamins was better keep taking it.

And where did I write that you should take lecithin on empty stomach? Aminoacids should be taken on empty stomach because of absorption issues.

I usually take lecithin with food because lecitihin also helps with digestion.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

proximo20 said:


> Could you write the brand you use? Maybe something in it is causing the problem?
> And are you sure that you dont have allergy to soy?
> 
> Check also the expiration date.
> ...


It's dont by Walmark a.s., Třinec, Czech. Expiration is far as 2011.

The first tablet actually wasn't better. When I bought Lecithin wednesday I felt it almost immedietaly. Motivated all day long and felt like I doubles my IQ.

You haven't told that I should take it on empty stomach  but I did take next day I bought it on empty stomach and I didn't feel like vomitting. I am trying to remember if there was something I did different. I think I took lecithin first because those last days I have taken B vitamin complex first.

I have the feeling that when I take it with food it will loose half of it's effects. And I don't have enough of them at the moment to take with food and more than one times per day. (Actually I read somewhere that suggested intake is 10 capsules a day or 1 tablespoon of granules. And high dose is somewhere 25 capsules).


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## 40watta (Oct 12, 2008)

well i got my lecithin and actyl l carnitine today so ill keep u guys posted!


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

40watta said:


> well i got my lecithin and actyl l carnitine today so ill keep u guys posted!


Well if you are student take them and see how long and how efficiently you will be studying. And you will probably be articulate. This is important because when I know that I wont say anything stupid and I will express myself clearly, I am not afraid of social situations as usual.

Hey Ju_pa are you from Czech republic? I had two czech friends when I was in Vienna, Jiri and Olga(she was an angel). And I know that czech people consume the most bier per person in the world even more than the germans, so be careful

It was much easier in Europe to make friends, they are more acquinted with shy people and somebody comes and talks to you anyway. and there are the parties where everybody is so shy at first and gradually with the booze they socialize. Here in US you are just a loner, weirdo, loser etc.... And they leave you so alone that sometimes I don't say one word all day. I just want to finish my study here go to denmark or someplace where shy people are accepted.

So Ju_Pa I wish you good luck with lecithin, if it makes you sooo uncomfortable you can try choline or acetyl-l-carnitine. But check frist what other ingredients exist in your supplement.


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## 40watta (Oct 12, 2008)

ju-pa what is your dosage? the recommended dosage on mine is 1 to 2 servings a day. Each serving is 3.6grams soy lecithin. Just wondering if I need more than the average serving.

proximo yea im a student. Ill see what happens tomorrow


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

proximo20 said:


> Well if you are student take them and see how long and how efficiently you will be studying. And you will probably be articulate. This is important because when I know that I wont say anything stupid and I will express myself clearly, I am not afraid of social situations as usual.
> 
> Hey Ju_pa are you from Czech republic? I had two czech friends when I was in Vienna, Jiri and Olga(she was an angel). And I know that czech people consume the most bier per person in the world even more than the germans, so be careful
> 
> ...


Ah, how sorry I am to say that I'm not from Czech. Im from Estonia  It's way up from Czech.

You are right about parties. Because europeans are much more shier than americans. But I'm really sorry to hear this. Didn't know that kind of personality over there in US. We pretty much do the opposite. Haven't seen anyone being left to the corner when im at party.

By the way 40watta and proximo20, It didn't happen today. I took lecithin on empty stomach *and* I didn't take it with Vitamin-B-Complex. Looks like there is something that doesn't go along with a kind of vitamind because there isn't only B-s.

About the dose. I have also 1-2 a day but they are 1200mg. I think you are lucky with 3.6g  I'm gonna try that acetyl-l-carnitine if turn out good.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

40watta said:


> well i got my lecithin and actyl l carnitine today so ill keep u guys posted!


40watta

Have you got any results ?

I am really interested in carnitine. I will try to find it somewhere here in Estonia.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

3.6 gr for one serving might be too much considering you will combine it with acety-l-carnitine. 

Especially at night those two might keep you awake.

By the way Ju-pa acetyl-l-carnitine is a different form of carnitine so be careful if you buy. 
Acetyl-l-carnitine is more bioavailable and works for the brain.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

proximo20 said:


> 3.6 gr for one serving might be too much considering you will combine it with acety-l-carnitine.
> 
> Especially at night those two might keep you awake.
> 
> ...


Oh, thanks for telling that to me. I was going to buy some kind of CoQ10+Carnitine tablets.


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## 40watta (Oct 12, 2008)

ju_pa said:


> 40watta
> 
> Have you got any results ?
> 
> I am really interested in carnitine. I will try to find it somewhere here in Estonia.


well so far ive only been taking one serving of lecithin only. Havent noticed anything so far. Id didnt want to take another serving in the evening because I usually have trouble sleeping. Is it supposed to work right away? Im gonna try acetyl l carnitine by itself first, and then a combination of the two.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

40watta said:


> well so far ive only been taking one serving of lecithin only. Havent noticed anything so far. Id didnt want to take another serving in the evening because I usually have trouble sleeping. Is it supposed to work right away? Im gonna try acetyl l carnitine by itself first, and then a combination of the two.


Depends on what you mean by work

Don't expect anything like whiskey or xanax. It just eliminates the foggy mind, concetration and being not articulate problems.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

It feels like I am starting all over again. First days when I started to take lecithin I lived like in a dream. My verbal skills were perfect, I was intelligent, smart, fearless, when I looked to a mirror I saw a really happy and handsome guy. I was like renaissance man. I also did what I wanted to without doubt that I should do something else.

But after 3-4 days effects have gone away. I have tried a lot of combos with lecithin and even taking 2 lecithin capsules. I feel foggy mind again and lack of energy. I'm having a small depression again and when I wanted to go out I got that fear again before going out.

Also, I asked beggiatoa if he also had the same effect and the answer was yes. It feels so sad. I miss my first days on lecithin  Can't find the motivation to make more research on SA. Feels like there is no other thing like lecithin and it doesn't work anymore. I'll better get nap!

By the way, Proximo, did you also have the same effect with lecithin ? I haven't tried glutamine and carnitine yet.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

The boost in the first day can be placebo effect I don't know how choline or lecithin might effect mood.

And no I never experienced lecithin could not erase the foggy mind or fatigue.

Let me explain this way. I was reading the auto-biography book of Marlon Brando, who wrote how he suffered from depression, anxiety when he was young. He was saying that he always tried hard to look tough. 

The problem with me is that I am not articulate or energetic like him about worrying and stuff I don't care much. I respect myself and try to convince that there is no reason to worry. Some supplements gives me energy and make my mind sharp. Lecitihn is one of them.

In short, I don't think there is a pill that can make me articulate energetic fit happy confident.

For example creatine, how can someone expect gain muscle without working out but taking only the pill. Impossible.

So the supplements we use can help, but just like in bodybuilding we have to also care about diet, attidute and motivation. 

Ju_pa if you think that lecithin makes you worse don't take it but consider it just some help and try to make benefit of it and see how it goes.

I believe the depression in these days arise from the high expectations.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

ju_pa said:


> It feels like I am starting all over again. First days when I started to take lecithin I lived like in a dream. My verbal skills were perfect, I was intelligent, smart, fearless, when I looked to a mirror I saw a really happy and handsome guy. I was like renaissance man. I also did what I wanted to without doubt that I should do something else.
> 
> But after 3-4 days effects have gone away. I have tried a lot of combos with lecithin and even taking 2 lecithin capsules. I feel foggy mind again and lack of energy. I'm having a small depression again and when I wanted to go out I got that fear again before going out.


Yes! I had the same experience. The first day I used lecithin, I felt invincible and I almost felt Manic. I had numerous ideas popping in, I was more talkative, articulate. I spent most of the night up planning a business strategy to sell supplements in the Caribbean. yeah, it was that good. I didn't get the same effect the next day. I quickly adapted and didn't use it everyday. Instead, before I went to some social event, I would put a small amount under my tongue and let it dissolve there. I got that same effect almost instantly. When I get anxious, my eyes build up with tears and I feel a lot of tension in my face, almost as If I wanted to try. But I don't. Does this happen to anyone else? When I would take the lecithin sublingually, that tension in my face would literally fade away. Just like that. It was pretty incredible. When I ran out of the brand I was using, I tried 2 other brands, even a softgel form and no of them gave me the same effect.

I think when you're severely deficient in a nutrient, the feeling you'll get when you replenish it will be euphoric. I got the same effect the first few times I used magnesium. Now, I don't get that same euphoria and the effects are less drastic. Although it still completely rids most of the anxiety I get. Just in a more subtle way.

There has to be a way to make lecithin or choline supplements more effective. I've read somewhere that if you take acetyl L-carnitine (ALCAR) you NEED to also take choline. I forget what the relationship is there.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> I believe the depression in these days arise from the high expectations.


That is true but only partly. When you're stressed and anxious, the little things bother you. When you feel good and motivated, social/peer pressure doesn't will not affect you. It's like an earlier post I made. One night I pigged out on ice cream and pizza. All that calcium (with insufficient magnesium) made me feel irritable the next morning. I started to worry and complain about things that had happened in the past, and the people were involved. Even my sister mentioned why I was ruminating about unimportant past events. That's when I made the connection. I immediately took 400 mg Magnesium lactate and in 10-15 minutes, all those worries had faded away.

So, correct the tension and anxiety and the rest will fall into place.


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## 40watta (Oct 12, 2008)

Beggiatoa said:


> Yes! I had the same experience. The first day I used lecithin, I felt invincible and I almost felt Manic. I had numerous ideas popping in, I was more talkative, articulate. I spent most of the night up planning a business strategy to sell supplements in the Caribbean. yeah, it was that good. I didn't get the same effect the next day. I quickly adapted and didn't use it everyday. Instead, before I went to some social event, I would put a small amount under my tongue and let it dissolve there. I got that same effect almost instantly. When I get anxious, my eyes build up with tears and I feel a lot of tension in my face, almost as If I wanted to try. But I don't. Does this happen to anyone else? When I would take the lecithin sublingually, that tension in my face would literally fade away. Just like that. It was pretty incredible. When I ran out of the brand I was using, I tried 2 other brands, even a softgel form and no of them gave me the same effect.
> 
> I think when you're severely deficient in a nutrient, the feeling you'll get when you replenish it will be euphoric. I got the same effect the first few times I used magnesium. Now, I don't get that same euphoria and the effects are less drastic. Although it still completely rids most of the anxiety I get. Just in a more subtle way.
> 
> There has to be a way to make lecithin or choline supplements more effective. I've read somewhere that if you take acetyl L-carnitine (ALCAR) you NEED to also take choline. I forget what the relationship is there.


were you using a lecithin supplement or choline supplement? what brand? I started taking softgels and it doesnt seem to be doing anything.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

I think it doesn't matter if it's choline or lecithin. Lecithin contains choline and choline is from what acetylcholine is made of. It's just a matter of amount you take in lecithin or choline.

Beggiatoa, how long are your gaps between your intake of lecithin ? 

There has to be something what makes some business leaders, government workers and president canditaes really sharp in thinking and opens their mind. Some people have it naturally from genes and it just makes me want to have that open mind too.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

You want something that will make you sharp? Eat wild blueberries.

I was using Lecithin granules from Good 'n' natural. I didn't have a specific time frame b/w doses, I just took it whenever I had to socialize personally. That meant every couple days or so. Keep in mind, that lecithin also has inositol which raises GABA levels. Lecithin also has a lot of fat which probably assists in the uptake of choline and inositol.

I used Lecithin capsules and while I felt something, again, it wasn't as drastic. But that's probably because it was a lower dose. If you bought a lecithin granule supplement and it makes you vomit or it tastes really really bad. Then that manufacturer is no good. I bought a couple that tasted this way and I just threw them out. Lecithin has a very mild soy flavor and it's actually not that bad.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Actually those wild blueberries are pretty expensive in winter period but thanks will definitely try them out.

Looks like proximo is going fulltime with lecithin and is feeling great . I remember that proximo did say that he has garlic in his diet and before I started taking lecithin I took 100mg lecithin pills which also contained 100mg garlic powder and ate 1/4 of garlic piece at night. And after taking lecithin I didn't took any of them.

I can't say right now if garlic and those pills I took before actually help lecithin. I just slept 11 hours and my mind feels so slow anyway. But Beggiatoa what you think about garlic ? Do you eat it. I know that your theory of taking lecithin occassualy doesn't go along with mine but is worth a try.

Is still have to say that Garlic kills brain cells. This was a scientific study by largest Garlic manufacturer (That actually is kidna wierd to report it by them). Anyway, they said that thing from the Garlic gets through blood barrier and makes our brain cells shut down.


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## Wellington (Dec 29, 2007)

CDP-choline is a much better form. It passes directly through the BBB. It has been studied in dozens if not hundreds of trials.


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## 40watta (Oct 12, 2008)

Wellington said:


> CDP-choline is a much better form. It passes directly through the BBB. It has been studied in dozens if not hundreds of trials.


is that different from phosphatidyl choline?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

ju_pa said:


> Looks like proximo is going fulltime with lecithin and is feeling great


I usually don't care about feeling great or unhappy as long as I have energy for the gym and to study I am fine.

But today it was different. I also read at acu-cell.com that high phosphorus can cause nervousnes. LEcithin also provides phosphorus.

I heard and read many good things about cdp-choline. I am going to order cdp-choline and creatine monohydtrate this time and see how that combo works.

And the thing with garlic is that garlic is supposed to increase testo but supplements comapnies put it with soy oil which is phytoestrogen. I mean I and beggitoa should build a supplement company with the knowledge and experience we could really make money. Or at least we should work as advisor

Then powders have usually calcium. I think they put so much calcium that some of them make me sleepy which is the opposite reaction when I eat garlic.


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

proximo20 said:


> I usually don't care about feeling great or unhappy as long as I have energy for the gym and to study I am fine.
> 
> But today it was different. I also read at acu-cell.com that high phosphorus can cause nervousnes. LEcithin also provides phosphorus.
> 
> ...


It's true that you both know a lot because of the research you have done to help others and yourself to overcome SP/SA. By creating company you can help a lot. Make some research of supplement industries and write down similar products and make your own market-winning receipts. Then head to the supplement manufacturer and rent few hours to make few hundred samples and test on your family/friends 

CDP-Choline and creatine monohydrate. I need these. Lately all supplements which come from offshore to Estonia are taken down.I'm not familiar with manufacturers from US. Is NOW the largest and most known/respected supplement manufacturer ?


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