# Dopamine is my friend



## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

I found two articles

1) http://www.socialfear.com/low_dopamine_reuptake_sites_in_sp.html

"Blind quantitative analysis revealed that striatal dopamine reuptake site densities were markedly lower in the patients with social phobia than in the age- and gender-matched comparison subjects. "

2) www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/...12;jsessionid=t0mgi71flg72.alice?format=print

The authors describe a 31-year-old woman who developed persistent generalized anxiety after brief exposure to the dopamine antagonist metoclopramide. Independently of that, she had experienced a panic attack followed by dystonias, shortly after a single dose of that drug...


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

After some small research I found something,

from grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=498676

Synaptosomes isolated from rats treated with lithium chloride for 20 days, show a 23% increase in [3H]dopamine uptake with respect to synaptosomes isolated ...

lithium gaba relation

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2183109

" Both lithium and valproic acid significantly increased GABA CSF levels in normonatremic and hyponatremic animals. Valproic acid induced head-shakes and increased CSF glutamine concentration. 4. The results suggest that both antimanic drugs have similar effects on GABA, but lithium is preferred if the increase in glutamine concentration poses a problem, either in the presence or absence of hyponatremia."

lithium deficiency symptoms from acu-cell

low stomach acid, gastrointestinal problems

but don't get excited is lithium deficiency the cause or is it possible that something else is 
effecting lithium levels.

For example silica is lithium agonist and when Beggitoa asked if we are just silica deficient nobodyreplied. So Beggiota how is it going with Silica, do you ever take it alone?

I need to know before i order some lithium ortanate.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

another study

Low brain glutathione and ascorbic acid associated with dopamine uptake inhibition during rat's development induce long-term cognitive deficit: relevance to ...

cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15685703 - Similar pages

When I read the article in full they say that they have used glutathione inhibitor, dopamine uptake inhibitor and ascorbic acid inhibitor so glutathione and aa deficiency do not cause dopamine uptake inhibition

lithium seems like a bad idea another study shows that lithium decreases testo levels.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

very intersting info about silica

"Silica is the combination of the 2 most common elements on the planet – Oxygen and Silicon. Some scientists hypothesize that we could just as easily have been a Silicon based organism as a Carbon based organism. Two functions have been identified for Silicon. It is the primary Calcium management element and is responsible for making sure calcium is not stored in any locations other than bone. Without Silica, the body will store calcium (of which most of us get too much of ) in areas like, artery walls, joints, organs and soft tissue. The second Silicon role is in collagen formation. The physical manifestation of aging is the inability of the body to reproduce collagen the way we could in our 20’s and 30’s. This leads to wrinkles, loss of flexibility, porosity of bones, digestive problems, arthritis and many other issues associated with aging. We feel Silica is the most natural and effective supplement on the market today to reverse or eliminate, arthritis, GI tract disorders, and osteoporosis. Silica is also known to enhance appearance of hair, skin and nails."

So silica decides where the calcium is deposited and we have sent many links how increase intracellular calcium is linked with cognitive and psycological problems. 

Beggiota benefited from silica but I don't if he still uses it or how it effects him when he takes it alone. 

He also sent the link about alzheimer silica connection. Increased intake of silica decreases alzheimer risk.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Wow...great find.

I take silica in the form of Diatomaceous EArth. The first time, I took it, I asked my brother and sister to take it also. DE helps to clean out your vowels and it kills parasite. However, it is also rich in silica. Now, after we all ingested about a tablespoons worth, we all became very, very happy. Seriously. Our moods were affected in a way I hadn't experienced before with any supplements.

I also gave some to my 3 dogs mixed in their foods and they were jumping around also in no time. I don't know what neurotransmitter were affected but I can tell you something happened.

I always take it on an empty stomach.

I don't take it everyday because of the taste of it. I've also read some things about low dose lithium, which is the kind found sold as supplements. In fact, one of the reasons I started using Celtic salt was because it has low levels of lithium, which helps build muscle, among other things.

http://grouppekurosawa.com/blog/2005/11/grey-salt-can-help-build-muscle

Also, if you're already anxious to begin with, tyrosine and phenylalanine will get converted to epinephrine more often than in normal people and this will make your anxiety worse.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> I have been trying to explain that there are differences between SA and GA patients. This is why I repeat my symptoms every time. In a situation where everybody panics I am alright but when I have to do a presentation I tremble.


I have this also. I am surprisingly calm in bad situation, but if it comes to social interactions and presentations and studying, I am a mess. I never thought there was a difference b/w GAD and SAD but now I see there could be...this is hopeful.

Maybe before you buy more supplements, try to resolve the low HCL problem. If you're using betaine already, great. But also consider using L-histidine. Do you suffer from allergies?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> So in short people with SA disorder have high dopamine and people with GA disorder might have low dopamine.


Actually, I think you got it backwards. SA can benefit from increased dopamine and GA doesn't. In the second link, the study showed that metoclopramide increased anxiety. But this drug is used to treat nausea and vomiting and not anxiety. So this discovery was incidental. Where in the first link, patients with SA have decreased dopamine reuptake activity meaning less dopamine is produced.

"It has been suggested that social phobia is associated with dysfunction of the noradrenergic and dopaminergic systems" Tyrosine can increase activity in both these systems.

So, if this is correct, Dopamine CAN benefit us SAers, therefore, Tyrosine is something to be taken by us.

What was that link you posted earlier which defined high dopamine types, having high libido, anxiety? Maybe the type of anxiety they referred to was GA, no SA. I could be wrong. This is worth another look.

I was reading the other say about a Doctor who swears by Tyrosine and uses it to treat everyone with depression. I can't find the link though. I'll search harder.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

*found it http://www.findhealer.com/glossary/L.php3*

L-Tyrosine
Besides multiple other functions, Dr. Slagle considers tyrosine to be so important because of its ability to convert to the mood elevating neurotransmitters, norepinephrine & dopamine, in your brain. It is well established that depression is caused by a depletion of certain neurotransmitters & the mechanism of action of prescription antidepressant drugs is to make more neurotransmitters available - but sometimes along with drug side effects.

Additionally, tyrosine converts to thyroid hormone & to adrenaline which is produced by your adrenal gland in response to stress. Chronic stress can divert tyrosine to excessive adrenaline production resulting in decreased thyroid & norepinephrine levels, unless you have plenty of tyrosine available for all the functions.

For tyrosine to properly convert to these substances, or for any amino acid to perform its multiple & almost magical conversions, there must be adequate pyridoxal-5-phosphate (vitamin B6) as well as certain other vitamins & minerals.

There are multiple factors leading to depletion of the substances necessary for your brain neurotransmitter production which are detailed in Dr. Slagle's book. Some are excessive stress, sugar, alcohol, recreational drugs, caffeine, long-term junk food, & many prescription medications such as some for hypertension, antibiotics, birth control pills & many others.

If you are taking any prescription or over-the-counter medicine be sure to check the Physician's Drug Reference to see if depression is a potential side effect. You would be surprised how often it is! If so, talk to your doctor about a change to a non-depressing drug when possible or try to override that effect by following Dr. Slagle's complete & safe program for the natural treatment of depression.

Helpful with:

* Low moods or outright depression.
* Stress protection & better functioning during stress.
* Symptoms of PMS.
* Improving motivation, drive, concentration.
* Hypothyroidism.
* Fatigue.
* Maximizing peak mental or athletic performance.

Interestingly enough, I took 2.25 grams of it yesterday at once. I felt this warmth spreading all over my body. It was kinda neat. I also felt a lift in my mood, like the article said. In fact, I had been putting off doing some chores, and after taking it, I did laundry, picked up a bit, washed the dishes, showered, shaved and went out for a haircut. While I was out, I did notice I was a bit more social, or less scared to be, but just a bit.

I originally started taking Tyrosine because I thought taking lecithin made me depressed. Lecithin could have been the cause, but I have no proof of this (although, the medical texts say anything that raises acetylcholine causes depression while anti-cholinergics, improve mood). I tend to have depression in cyclical episodes that come and go. Maybe at the time, it was one of those. I stopped Tyrosine after reading a site that defined high dopamine types, which fit my personality. Now I wonder If I can benefit from this again. I do like the lidido boost it gives me...just wish I had a partner to take it out on


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Something else.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/4115.html

Low dopamine causes ADHD - which I have.
High dopamine leads to addictive behavior and paranoia - I don't have an addictive personality at all...but I used to be terribly paranoid (used to think everyone was talking about me)

http://www.entelechyjournal.com/pulling_away_after_sex1.htm

There's a good chart here. It says, those who are dopamine deficient have :

Anhedonia - No Pleasure, World Looks Colorless, Inability To "Love", No Remorse About Personal Behavior, Depression, Antisocial behavior, Low Libido, Lack Of Ambition And Drive, Social anxiety disorder. That's twice, SAD is mentioned in relation to low dopamine.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

One more thing. Pycnogenol is used to treat ADD. Pycnogenol decreases the reuptake (breakdown) of dopamine and NE. So maybe the mechanism is by increasing dopamine once again.

"Some recent studies have shown that ADD is associated with a faster than average reuptake (breakdown) of dopamine"

Dopamine: The neurotransmitter dopamine has been implicated in ADD. Dopamine is the "feel good" chemical in the brain which is responsible for our ability to concentrate as well as our feelings of happiness. Just about all mood-altering drugs work on dopamine, including alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, heroin, and cocaine, as do stimulant medications for ADD. Dopamine activity increases naturally in response to mental or physical stimulation (this is nature's way of getting us off our butts), which is why ADDers can focus much better after exercise or during an emergency. In fact, it is said that many of the people involved in emergency response are ADD, such as firemen and ER physicians.

It is quite possible that some people are born with reduced levels of dopamine activity. People born with less dopamine may unknowingly spend much of their lives looking for ways to boost dopamine, either in positive ways like being highly active, inventive or competitive, or in negative ways by being reckless, gambling, or taking drugs. Another possibility is that lifestyles affect dopamine activity. For example, the brains of children raised on high levels of stimulation (e.g. by watching Cartoon Network and playing video games all day) might "adapt" physically so that high-stimulation becomes a requirement. Finally, general nutrition is important. Researchers have demonstrated a correlation of ADD and fatty acid deficiency. Fatty acids are used to build receptors for neurotransmitters like dopamine as well as neural synapses formed while learning new things.

--so increasing the intake of essential fatty acids, GLA, omega 3's etc. can help.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

But if the reuptake(breakdown) is less, would not this cause excess dopamine. 

For example serotonin uptake inhibitors are aimed to increase serotonin. So if there is no reuptake the neurotransmitter is more.

I read the article and it says that this sitiutation resembles early phases of parkinson disease. In parkinson the problem is low dopamine right? 

But still I don't get it I thought serotonin uptake inhibitors increase serotonin levels. So when dopanime reuptake sites are low the dopamine is not uptaken and its level is high. 

from wikipedia

"SSRIs increase the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter serotonin by inhibiting its reuptake into the presynaptic cell, increasing the level of serotonin available to bind to the postsynaptic receptor. "


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Hmmm...now I'm confused.

Metoclopramide is a dopamine ANTAGONIST. It binds to D2 receptors and prevents the actions of dopamine on it. This causes anxiety. So in essence, lowered dopamine activity causes INCREASED anxiety. Still, this seems to suggest dopamine is good for us.

In the first study, they say that dopamine reuptake densities are lowered in SA patients. I think how you understand it, if less is re-uptaken, the more is around to do work. This might be similar to having high dopamine. But I don't think it is. Maybe measuring the secretion of dopamine is more difficult than measuring the reuptake, giving that reuptake quantities are always the same. I think this implies the production of dopamine, in general, is low so less is found to be reabsorbed. In both cases then, you have low dopamine and increasing our dopamine levels might be beneficial for us.

Have you supplemented with tyrosine before?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Low Dopamine D2 Receptor Binding Potential in Social Phobia

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/3/457

ok. So us social phobes have dysfunctional D2 receptors. Great. Perfect. Why?????

What unknown "toxin" is causing this? Could it be mercury, aluminum or other heavy metal???

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"Methyl mercury inhibits dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) uptake by brain synaptosomes and decreases antagonist binding to striatal dopaminergic D2 receptors in vitro...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

This link says that mercury totally detroyed binding capacity of the D2 receptor and this was irreversible even when washed or when place in an EDTA solution. So, not even EDTA can chelate mercury off of D2 receptors. Uh Oh! However, dithioerythritol can...
Further incubation in the presence of 3 mM dithioerythritol (DTE) resulted in the regeneration of about 40% of lost sites....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
"mercury levels share an inverse relationship with D2 receptor activity"


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

"Abstract Serotonergic antidepressants (SSRIs) are first-line treatments for social anxiety disorder [SAnD], though there is evidence of dopaminergic system dysfunction. Twenty subjects with DSM-IV SAnD, untreated (n = 10) and SSRI-remitted DSM-IV SAnD (n = 10), were administered a single dose of 1) a dopamine agonist (pramipexole 0.5 mg) and 2) a dopamine antagonist (sulpiride 400 mg), followed by anxiogenic challenges (verbal tasks and autobiographical scripts) in a double-blind crossover design, the two test days being one week apart. Anxiety symptoms were measured by self-reported changes in Visual Analogue Scales, specific SAnD scales and anxiety questionnaires. Plasma levels of prolactin were obtained. Untreated SAnD subjects experienced significant increases in anxiety symptoms following behavioural challenges after either sulpiride or pramipexole. Following remission with SSRIs, the socially anxiogenic effect of behavioural provocation was significantly attenuated under pramipexole, whereas under sulpiride effects remained significantly elevated. There appears to be instability of the dopamine system under behavioural stress in social anxiety subjects that is only partly rectified by successful treatment with an SSRI, which may induce a desensitisation of postsynaptic dopamine D3 receptors."

So dopamine agonist helped but only when it is taken with SSRI and dopamine antagonist did not help in any case.

And as you suggested we are dopamine deficient? How does tyrosine effect you?

another study

In psychiatrically unaffected volunteers, central dopamine activity has been found to be related to positive emotionality or extraversion.

from Grant KA, Shively CA, Nader MA, Ehrenkaufer RL, Line SW, Morton TE, and others. Effect of social status on striatal dopamine D2 receptor binding characteristics in cynomolgus monkeys assessed with positron emission tomography. Synapse 1998;29:80-3


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

No. Less dopamine reuptake means MORE dopamine is made available is the reuptake was decreased by some drug or other factor. The article didn't say if the reuptake mechanism was altered was anything. So I took this to mean that less was re-absorbed because less is being produced to start with. I wish we could find the whole article to help clarify this.

When I take tyrosine, I feel more active and motivated. In fact, I just took another 1.5 grams and I don't feel anymore anxious than usual. I actually feel a little calmer. That's considering that I took 5 mg Adderall today.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

I think they are clarified you should check the new articles. The whole article is here which says the sitiuation looks like early phases of PArkinson.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/154/2/239

So parkinson patients have low dopamine right? So you are probably right. We have low dopamine.

So result is dopamine is my friend?

Well we did overall a good job, do things that increase dopamine is beneficial for us.

For example mucuna pruruiens.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

So what about combining 5-htp with tyrosine as in the article both increase in serotonin and dopamine huh? Coconutholder benefits from 5-htp, I don't know if she ever tried tyrosine.

But wait a second what about tyrosine and epinephrine increase? I always feared from that supplement because of this effect.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I read of someone taking 5-htp or tryptophan at night and then tyrosine in the daytime. So it's totally possible. 

So tyrosine increases Dopamine and norepinephrine, 5htp for serotonin and take picamilon to increase GABA and you have all of the related NT covered.

This solution is good for the short term. But what's causing our NT to be all messed up in the first place???


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

It is possible that the cause is genetic. But one thing I found common among us is sugar cravings which is a sign of low blood sugar. In my case it can be caused by insulin resistance and in your case probably due to candida.

Can they be related I mean hypoglycemia and dopamine?

But it is like we are deficient in many neurotransmitter.

Acetylcholine, gaba, dopamine, serotonin what else is on the list?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

An older post about Fish oil and dopamine.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...good-for-social-anxiety-but-48907/#post688952

More info..

Chronic dietary alpha-linolenic acid (precurcor to omega 3)deficiency alters dopaminergic and serotoninergic neurotransmission in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

So before you raise serotonin and dopamine, make sure you ingest enough fish or fish oil


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I feel like we're going in circles. All these deficiencies point to neuro-degeneration. I already posted about that so we should be looking for a causative agent..

I've been taking fish oil for a couple months now and while it has improved my mood tremendously, not only for me but also for my brother. To date, it hasn't done anything for SAD. Maybe it's too soon. I'm going to continue taking it indefinitely.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

in one page it is written that silicon is responsible for directing calcium to bones but not to soft tissue or cells.

As we posted several times high calcium levels are responsible for many cognitive problems. I don't know maybe silica or another hormone, mineral, aminoacid can be responsible for the calcium excess. Not exactly excess but as you posted maybe we all have some type osteroposis. Or we can't direct the calcium to the bones?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

From wiki

-Sociability is also closely tied to dopamine neurotransmission. Low D2 receptor binding is found in people with social anxiety.

So, for whatever the reason, dopamine is not binding to the D2 receptor. Pharma will attempt to correct this by increasing the amount of dopamine there via a reuptake inhibitor. I think this can be duplicated with more tyrosine.

High dopamine is attrbuted to Schitzophrenia so if any of us had high dopamine, we would be suffering from some kind of psychosis...voices, hallucinations. Proximo, do you have anything like this???? If you don't, then your dopamine should be closer to normal than you think..


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/3/457

can you see this page.

The result seems a little bit biased to me. Only ten subjects and 2 of them have extremly high binding in the normal group.

What I noticed this week is when my blood sugar is low this really affects my behaviour facial expression and the way people interact with me.

I dont know maybe i look too nervous, confused or angry but there is definitly a rejection or ignorance from people or I took it that way because my confidence is so low.

look at this

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...=2139759&md5=7fd68a3311e951db39f78b9f849c32a4

Failure of glucagon-like peptide-1 to induce panic attacks or anxiety in patients with panic disorder

No subject or patient experienced any panic attacks during or following the infusion of GLP-1 nor were any adverse effects of the GLP-1 infusion observed.

I also noticed that when I am craving for sugar and food, it is really hard for me to talk.

There is also something called hypoglycemic neurodegenaration.

We both experience some type of hypoglycemia sugar cravings because of different reasons.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

what about this

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/serotonin_connection.html

Hypoglycemia and/or insulin resistance is believed to result in a dysfunction of dopamine metabolism.

In hypoglycemia wild fluctuations in blood sugar levels causes the body to produce excess adrenaline, which functions to convert glycogen (stored sugar) into glucose in an attempt to stabilize the supply of glucose to the brain. The brain normally has no other source of energy than glucose and needs a stable supply.

The overproduction of adrenaline, known as the fight/flight hormone, can cause nervousness, panic attacks, anxiety, phobias, extreme mood swings and bouts of aggression


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Talk about coming from left field....lol 

I'm reading the last link...very good info.

I don't know, I've checked my blood glucose levels many times and I'm always normal. I am guilty of eating lots of sugar...which I do.

What's your fasting glucose? Wait, I think to test for insulin resistance you have to do a different test. You give a patient a predetermined amount of glucose and then measure their levels every so often....I've never had that done


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Well I do't mean you have insulin resistance but because you said you have sugar cravings related to candida. I though you may have low blood sugar too. 

But your problem might be like this, you may have normal sugar but candida is using it instead of your cells is this possible.

this is why you want more sugar?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

make a new post for this..


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

you mean a new thread?

i read again and it makes sense right?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Yeah, it makes total sense.

I found a list of all conditions that have hypoglycemia as a sign..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_hypoglycemia


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

also read this link

http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/hypog.htm#HypoCausesTypes

They state many causes for Hypo...even low GABA can cause high insulin levels..


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> also read this link
> 
> http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/hypog.htm#HypoCausesTypes
> 
> They state many causes for Hypo...even low GABA can cause high insulin levels..


it looks like we did that page

look at the list

Hypoglycemia due to yeast metabolites

Hypoglycemia due to acidity or alkalinity of the body tissues

Hypoglycemia due to Insulin Resistance

Any condition that causes insufficent uptake/metabolism of important vitamins and minerals


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

and dude,

did you read my experience with silica today it is on low stomach acid thread. I need you to give me info about your silica supp. again.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

if you tried to send me a message, my inbox was full. Can you resend?


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

dopamine discussed at a differen forum

http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=41906

Funny thing is, although I tend to have a high libido, I have suffered in the past with an inability to climax. I forgot about that. My GF then used to get very, very frustrated with me. That is also a sign of dopamine deficiency.

Symptoms of Dopamine Deficiency

-Fatigue
-Inability to concentrate
-Difficulty with decision making and problem solving
-Cravings for meth, coffee, nicotine, or food
-Loss of interest in sex or inability to climax
-Lack of motivation, even for hobbies
-Depression (characterized by inability to feel joy and pleasure)
-Low energy levels
-Lethargy
-Tremor
-Attention deficits
-Trouble with memory
-Social anxiety

Disorders Believed To Be Caused By Insufficient Dopamine Stimulation

-Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS)
-Parkinson's Disease
-ADD/ADHD
-Depression


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

It seems CDP choline can also help here.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

CDPcholine, significantly increases the level and the synthesis rate of dopamine, and the level of tyrosine in the corpus striatum....
-----

Thus, it has been experimentally proven that CDP-choline increases noradrenaline and dopamine levels in the CNS.... (this one is great news! WE need more dopamine and NA)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

I ordered some anyways a few days ago. I'll let you know how it works. It's typically used in combination with other nootropics like bacopa, etc..

This makes sense. I said before that Lecithin has given me the best results with social anxiety. Lecithin contains lots and lots of phosphatidylcholine.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Maybe you should change the title and call it "Dopamine, my friend" lol

So far, we've found Fish oil, Tyrosine, CDP-choline to be beneficial to us. Anything else??


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

yeah I need to change it but I dont know how to do it in this new form.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Found another supplement that's supposed to increase dopamine and norepinephrine naturally

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=711&at=0

It's called NAD


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

The thing that I don't understand is dopamine and norepinephrine are catecolamines just like epinephrine. 

Stuff like coffee, vanilla etc. which increases catecolamines is the wrost things for me. So tyrosine is the precursor of catecolamines. 

This is what I don't understand how come tyrosine work for you? I was thinking catecolamines is the problem in the first place.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

this is how the difference of introversion and extroversion is defined on many websites. On one hand it can be true that we may prefer reading a book than going to a party but it is not because we need less dopamine it is because we lack dopamine and do not have the drive to socialize.

Introverts have reactions to two neurotransmitters. They have a low tolerance to dopamine, the thrill-seeking neurotransmitter. Essentially, introverts need way less of this than do extroverts, and too much dopamine makes them anxious and eventually drained. For introverts, outside stimulation which increases dopamine levels is much like being tickled: not so bad at first, but it can escalate and become very stressful and uncomfortable. Introverts prefer the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which produces a feeling of calm and wellbeing. This neurotransmitter is raised during calm, reflective activities like reading or drawing.

Extroverts are driven by the neurotransmitter dopamine. They seem to have a higher tolerance to this, and so they need higher amounts in order to feel good, or energized. Dopamine levels are raised by exciting activities such as amusement park rides, sky diving, public performing, and by certain drugs such as cocaine.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

How much tyrosine do you take? What kind of reactions do you have?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> How much tyrosine do you take? What kind of reactions do you have?


I did not write that I took tyrosine, but Sam-e tmg fish oil make me more antisocial I just sit at my room and watch movies, you understand what I mean.

With Caffeine and vanilla ,I had that protein shake, make me just worry too much.

I just dont understand how tyrosine increases dopamine but not adrenalin.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Tyrosine will increse Adrenaline is you're loading with stress 24/7. I say try it...

If you have low dopamine, most will be converted to that and very little to the epi. It's been like that for me. I've been feeling good, motivated and I'm more outgoing and my mood is more stable. I'm sticking with this one. Like everything else, try it for a week or longer to judge the effects.

I mean, the science is there. People with SA have dysfunctional Dopamine2 receptors. That is similar to the negative symptoms of schizo...(social widthdrawal, etc..)

Normally, Dopaminergic Receptors with this way: D2 are more active and D1 are less. D2 are excitatory while D1 are inhibitory. In schizo, there is loss of stimulation from D2 and there is LOSS if inhibition from D1, so the D1 receptors are being activated like crazy.....this leads to the psychosis. In SAD, D2 are less active. I don't know how D1 influence SA. So increasing tyrosine seems to work in increasing the function of D2. 

High dopamine persons are closer to psychosis and what not and I don't think you qualify for that.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Today I took half the usual dose of Tyrosine. I went to Walmart and simply being there gave me anxiety. I get better results when I take >1.5 grams per day.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

green tea and brain

Researchers in the study measured levels of dopamine in mice before treating some of them with polyphenols. They then injured the specific neurons linked to Parkinson's disease in all of the mice and measured dopamine levels again. The mice treated with polyphenols appeared to have been protected against toxic elements that may be linked to this disease.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030610-000003.html


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

"1) http://www.socialfear.com/low_dopami...tes_in_sp.html

"Blind quantitative analysis revealed that striatal dopamine reuptake site densities were markedly lower in the patients with social phobia than in the age- and gender-matched comparison subjects. "

The link didn't work. I don't believe the quote proves social phobics have higher dopamine levels.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

LALoner said:


> "1) http://www.socialfear.com/low_dopami...tes_in_sp.html
> 
> "Blind quantitative analysis revealed that striatal dopamine reuptake site densities were markedly lower in the patients with social phobia than in the age- and gender-matched comparison subjects. "
> 
> The link didn't work. I don't believe the quote proves social phobics have higher dopamine levels.


exactly it is the opposite but although I changed the title it did not change?????

yeah if you read posts the problem is actually we have low dopamine and the last link that I sent is related how green tea helps to protect dopamine levels.


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## robertz (Feb 4, 2009)

It seems there is a relation between taurine and dopamine. Continue reading...

Taurine is found at consistently high concentrations in the brain, though levels decline with age. Researchers showed that the spatial learning ability of older rats was impaired, with the impairment correlated to the reduction in taurine in the striatum of the brain (14). Aged rats with modest reductions of taurine showed only modest reductions in learning. Additionally, striatal dopamine was markedly lower in aged learning-impaired rats, demonstrating a potential interaction between taurine and dopamine that may have implications for Parkinson's Disease (see below).

(14) Dawson R Jr, Pelleymounter MA, Cullen NJ, Gollub M, Liu S. "An age-related decline in striatal taurine is correlated with a loss of dopaminergic markers." Brain Res Bull 1999 Feb; 48(3); 319-24.

That relation may explain why taurine increases energy, what do you think about it ?


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## euphoria (Jan 21, 2009)

proximo20 said:


> this is interesting.
> 
> Introverts have reactions to two neurotransmitters. They have a low tolerance to dopamine, the thrill-seeking neurotransmitter. Essentially, introverts need way less of this than do extroverts, and too much dopamine makes them anxious and eventually drained. For introverts, outside stimulation which increases dopamine levels is much like being tickled: not so bad at first, but it can escalate and become very stressful and uncomfortable. Introverts prefer the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which produces a feeling of calm and wellbeing. This neurotransmitter is raised during calm, reflective activities like reading or drawing.


That's not true. Introverts probably need _*more*_ dopamine than extroverts, not the other way round -- their lack of dopamine activity translates into a lesser social drive. Extroverts, on the other hand, appear to already have quite an excessive amount, at least relative to introverts.

Acetylcholine is more involved in cognition than anxiety. Take a look at acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, they are used in dementia-related cognitive decline, not anxiety disorders. Also note that anticholinergic drugs don't generally produce anxiety as a side-effect.

For _*all*_ of us, dopamine produces much the same effect. It isn't uncomfortable in higher levels; quite the opposite. It's just that most dopaminergic drugs (e.g. cocaine) also increase noradrenaline, and high doses of that are extremely uncomfortable.


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## robertz (Feb 4, 2009)

euphoria said:


> That's not true. Introverts probably need _*more*_ dopamine than extroverts, not the other way round -- their lack of dopamine activity translates into a lesser social drive. Extroverts, on the other hand, appear to already have quite an excessive amount, at least relative to introverts.
> 
> Acetylcholine is more involved in cognition than anxiety. Take a look at acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, they are used in dementia-related cognitive decline, not anxiety disorders. Also note that anticholinergic drugs don't generally produce anxiety as a side-effect.
> 
> For _*all*_ of us, dopamine produces much the same effect. It isn't uncomfortable in higher levels; quite the opposite. It's just that most dopaminergic drugs (e.g. cocaine) also increase noradrenaline, and high doses of that are extremely uncomfortable.


I agree, an increase in noradrenaline makes you obsess more about your fears, you feel better, no doubt, but the brain runs much faster. Apart from increased dopamine/noradrenaline extroverts also have a good GABA system (either enough GABA or good receptors) so the increased levels are not a problem for them.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Yes Euphoria we do lack dopamine I need to change that post too. It is how the difference of introverts and extroverts are defined in many websites, but as robertz wrote there is also the receptor thing.

I am sure you read how several members wrote how they benefited from lithium orotate

here is a research

Adaptive changes in the rat dopaminergic transmission following repeated lithium administration.

Dziedzicka-Wasylewska M, Mackowiak M, Fijat K, Wedzony K. Institute of Pharmacology, Polish Academy of Sciences, Krakow, Poland.
In the present study the alterations in the contents of dopamine (DA) and metabolites, as well as in the levels of mRNA coding for DA receptor D2, were determined in the rat striatum (STR) and nucleus accumbens septi (NAS), in correlation with the duration of lithium administration. Single or subchronic (3 days) administration of lithium produced less consistent effects as far as the levels of DA and metabolites are concerned; however, following 7 or 14 days of lithium administration, the DA RELEASE FROM TERMINALS WAS SIGNIFICANTLY ATTENUATED and the effect was more pronounced in NAS. After the same time of treatment, the increase in the levels of mRNA CODING FOR THE D2 RECEPTOR WAS INCREASED; this might be interpreted as an adaptive change to the decreased dopaminergic transmission following the prolonged administration of lithium.

from 
http://www.lithiumorotate.com/dopamine.html

So I think that we lack dopamine and it causes the attention, anxiety and introversion but there is also this d2 receptor problem that we face besides gaba and serotonin.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

This is interesting. If you read the article Nunni sent you know how immune system th1/th2 imbalance and candida causes neurotransmitter imbalance. In this site it says that

http://www.netaccess.com.au/~cytel/candida.htm

Candida causes the conversion of dietary Tyrosine to Tyramine (instead of its normal pathway to Dopamine).


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

robertz said:


> It seems there is a relation between taurine and dopamine. Continue reading...


Also may explain why a red bull lowers my SA


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

One thing that rarely gets mentioned is that dopamine and serotonin are antagonists. I have read that women have half the serotonin level of me. I haven't been able to find what the relation between male and female dopamine levels are, but I assume women have higher dopamine levels due to having lower serotonin levels.

edit: me should read men.


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## n1kkuh (Jul 11, 2008)

what about cigarettes? Do cigarettes increase dopamine? i heard somewhere they do. What are some practical ways to increase this wonderful little chemical?


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

i smoked and at first its great, takes away anxiety. Then once i did it everyday a few times, it was giving me more anxiety, like jitters, antisocial stuff.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

stealyourface722 said:


> i smoked and at first its great, takes away anxiety. Then once i did it everyday a few times, it was giving me more anxiety, like jitters, antisocial stuff.


Almost everything seems to work for me in the beginning and then stop.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Beggiatoa said:


> L-Tyrosine
> 
> For tyrosine to properly convert to these substances, or for any amino acid to perform its multiple & almost magical conversions, there must be adequate pyridoxal-5-phosphate (vitamin B6) as well as certain other vitamins & minerals.


Im such a douche-bag. I posted this section on B6 and it took me close to two years to get around to trying it. I'm happy I finally did. I feel much better using B6, in addition to all my other supplements.

Wiki has a good read on some of its functions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxine#Function_in_the_body


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Beggiatoa said:


> Im such a douche-bag. I posted this section on B6 and it took me close to two years to get around to trying it. I'm happy I finally did. I feel much better using B6, in addition to all my other supplements.
> 
> Wiki has a good read on some of its functions.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxine#Function_in_the_body


You feel better just as without social anxiety ? Did you know that B6 is produced by our own bacteria in our gut and very low B6 means two things. You have low bacteria count in the colon or something is blocking(or robbing it) the B6 do it's work.


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## Canadian4Life (Sep 27, 2010)

I think dopamine is defeinely a problem in social phobia and not other types of anxiety like panic disorder,OCD, and GAD. I have social anxiety, adhd and panic disorder. I take ritalin and clonazepam but before I started the ritalin 3 years ago I was taking 4mg and plus for my social anxiety Now most days I take 1mg and some days 1.5-2mg's. Ritalin helps my social anxiety,adhd and it actually improves my panic attacks. It keeps me calm in social situations and in general and I longer have panic attacks daily..more like twice a month. 

Now you say L-Tyorsine will boost dopamine levels. It might but not a "whole" lot because the process is time limited. For me it gave me NOTHING but a racing heart and increased blood pressure. Then after 4 hours I felt spaced out. It was garbage for me. Never found anything yet that's good for increasing dopamine. L-Theanine used at 800-1000mg a day boosts dopamine pretty good for an herbal supplement though and is relaxing.


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