# uh ohh...trazodone isn't working for sleep aid anymore



## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

i've been taking 150mg of trazodone to combat insomnia from nardil. worked fine, but for the past 2 days, it got me sleepy and tired same as before, but i would just lay there now, maybe getting an hour of sleep then waking up during the night. the feeling i get is the same, but i just can't get a full uninterrupted sleep. only thing that changed recently is that i started on testosterone and anastrozole (anti-aromatase) for testosterone hormone therapy on june the 9th. and then starting on june 12 and 13th was when im having problems with sleep. 

i just bought 1mg tablet of melatonin. i plan on splitting in half and taking .5mg and see if that works. i read that taking .3mg to .5mg works better than taking 1mg or 3mg. if taking .5mg melatonin doesn't work, im gonna try taking another .5mg melatonin and 150mg of trazodone. the cashier at rite aid said seroquel helped her fall asleep when she tried several other sleep aids. i'm open to suggestions. funny thing is im not tired or sleepy during the day. so im guess im sleeping for short periods of time then waking up, ad infinitum.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

I usually take 3-6 mg melatonin in addition to lunesta or ambien for sleep. Why not switch to a Z drug for insomnia?


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

whats a Z drug?


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

Ambien Lunesta are considered Z drugs


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

i guess i could try it as a last ditch effort, but im sure its under patent so it'll be sorta of expensive. ill consider it if melatonin and trazodone doesn't cut it. trazodone never failed me though,,, arrgggg... its soo cheap too.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

Ambien is generic Zolpidem now. Some folks (like me) call it a wonder drug. Others didn't find it very effective.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

jjyiss said:


> trazodone never failed me though,,, arrgggg... its soo cheap too.


How long have you been taking it? You could have built up tolerence. In which case you would need to up your dose or switch meds. As I did from Ambien to Lunesta, my doc wouldn't up my ambien dose.....


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

ever since i've been on nardil, so mid 2006. but i never took it ever night. only when i got effect of insomnia from nardil. insomnia comes and goes. but recently its been going on for awhile now. since mid 2006, i finished a bottle and am on my 1st refill of it, so not much at all really. 

its good ambien is generic. my pdoc said trazodone is good because you could take it whenever you need it, you do build a a slight torerlance to it, but its not habit forming. hope the same is for generic ambien as well.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

It took me about 4 years to build a tolerence to 10 mg tabs of ambien. I don't think thats too bad. Now they have ZERO effect.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Simple solution:

Cook an Indica strain of cannabis into some butter and eat it one hour before you go to bed. Effective for 8 hours of sleep, and you don't need a prescription to obtain it.


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

4 years to build up a tolerance. wow. i did a quick look at Zolpidem and it says it causes physical addiction. oh well, at least it cheap as heck and i don't have an addictive personality.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

Anything that works in theory causes addiction. However, I don't know what they mean by physical addiction. I don't crave ambiens (zolpidem).


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Jrock said:


> Anything that works in theory causes addiction. However, I don't know what they mean by physical addiction. I don't crave ambiens (zolpidem).


Physical addiction = physical dependence.


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

IllusionalFate said:


> Physical addiction = physical dependence.


not quite. physical addiction is you physically crave for something. physical dependence is diabetics that take their insulin shots daily. they don't physically crave it, they just need it.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

jjyiss said:


> not quite. physical addiction is you physically crave for something. physical dependence is diabetics that take their insulin shots daily. they don't physically crave it, they just need it.


Diabetics taking an insulin shot is dependence, not the pharmaceutical term "*physical* dependence".

From Wikipedia:


> Physical dependence refers to a state resulting from *chronic use of a drug that has produced tolerance* and where negative physical symptoms of withdrawal result from abrupt discontinuation or dosage reduction.


Pharmacologists use the term "addiction" to refer to physiological dependence:


Wikipedia said:


> Pharmacologists continue to speak of addiction from a physiologic standpoint (some call this a physical dependence).


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *Wikipedia*
> _Pharmacologists continue to speak of addiction from a physiologic standpoint (some call this a physical dependence)._


Addiction is not physical dependence - it's a psychological condition.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Medline said:


> Addiction is not physical dependence - it's a psychological condition.


We're discussing physical dependence (aka physiological addiction), not a psychological craving.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Whatever... jjyiss is wrong. At least that I understood by speedreading the posts.


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

hahahah....im fine w/being wrong .

anyways, i tried .5mg of melatonin, then another .5mg after 1.5 hours. didn't work. im still awake. while i was "on" melatonin, it caused a more natural drowsyness and sleepyness, unlike trazodone. i feel rested though for some odd reason at 1AM. ill take teh advice of trying the 'eating the cannibus" route but you gotta grow those suckers. good for the long term. for next time i can also try melatonin and trazodone at teh same time. and tomorrow im gonna call my pdoc and have him prescribe me some generic ambien.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Good attitude.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

jjyiss said:


> hahahah....im fine w/being wrong .
> 
> anyways, i tried .5mg of melatonin, then another .5mg after 1.5 hours. didn't work. im still awake. while i was "on" melatonin, it caused a more natural drowsyness and sleepyness, unlike trazodone. i feel rested though for some odd reason at 1AM.


Try taking the melatonin in 3-6mg doses next time.



> ill take teh advice of trying the 'eating the cannibus" route but you gotta grow those suckers. good for the long term. for next time i can also try melatonin and trazodone at teh same time..


It's worth the 4 months it takes to grow out a sedating Indica. Taking melatonin often can reduce blood flow - not a good thing at all! Cannabis increases blood flow, however, and is much healthier for your cardiovascular system.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

If you've been using any sort of benzo/Z drug to sleep it is unlikely that melotonin on its' own would work. Thats for the the "light weights", so to speak.  Also ambien comes in 5mg and 10mg tabs. I'd push for the 10 mg tabs. You can always split them if needed.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

10mg of Ambien put me to sleep... for two hours. 20mg didn't exactly get me through the entire night either.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

Have you tried Ambien CR if your waking up after 2 hours?


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

I've never taken any extended-release versions of hypnotic nonbenzodiazepines, due to the probability of either anterograde amnesia and/or sleepwalking occurring.

Not to mention they would increase clonazepam tolerance.


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## stealyourface722 (Aug 31, 2008)

why dont you take more???!?? like up it to 200 or 175??


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

stealyourface722 said:


> why dont you take more???!?? like up it to 200 or 175??


cuz i didn't think it would matter. i was taking 150mg trazodone, and when i had to get out of bed to pee, i would be stumbling around like i was drunk, and i actually feel over forward into the mirror hitting my head. i was dead tired, and sleepy, but unable to sleep. i found that i literally had to sit down on the toilet to pee so that i would not slump over forward or fall down, cuz it happened twice so far, and a lot of close calls.

doesn't matter now, i got on ambien 12.5mg, took 100mg trazodone, and 1 mg of melatonin. and i fell asleep. woke up to pee, went back to bed and took only a minute or so to fall back asleep. found something that worked, thank god.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

Your doc is letting you use all that for sleep? I need to move to CA


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

yep, me and my pdoc have a good relationship. we talked for a couple hours about everything, different medical drugs, his family, and i introduced him to aniracetam since he only was only vaguely aware about piracetam reading about it long time ago. then i left with my generic ambien script, and about 10 sample pills of ambienCR.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

You ought to try just the ambien to see how it works without the benzo.


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## jjyiss (May 6, 2006)

clonazapam does not make me drowsy at all. i take it for the calming benefit. i took xanax in the past, and that never got me drowsy either.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

Won't the ambien make you feel calm? It used to me. I would give my left testicle for an ambien to make me feel like it used to.......


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Jrock said:


> Won't the ambien make you feel calm? It used to me. I would give my left testicle for an ambien to make me feel like it used to.......


Ambien's duration of action is _much_ shorter than that of clonazepam. Also, if one becomes tolerant to clonazepam, they will also become tolerant to the anxiolytic properties of Ambien since both are GABA-A agonists.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> Ambien's duration of action is _much_ shorter than that of clonazepam. Also, if one becomes tolerant to clonazepam, they will also become tolerant to the anxiolytic properties of Ambien since both are GABA-A agonists.


Thought so....How could I lower my tolerance lever so my ambien would work again. Currently I take 3 mg lunesta and 6mg melotonin for sleep. Sometimes an occasional beer if necessary


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Jrock said:


> Thought so....How could I lower my tolerance lever so my ambien would work again. Currently I take 3 mg lunesta and 6mg melotonin for sleep. Sometimes an occasional beer if necessary


I think a one or two month break from selective GABA-A agonists should reduce your tolerance enough, but that is only conjecture. I'll try to find some studies on that because I remember reading it somewhere.


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## Jrock (Dec 16, 2008)

IllusionalFate said:


> I think a one or two month break from selective GABA-A agonists should reduce your tolerance enough, but that is only conjecture. I'll try to find some studies on that because I remember reading it somewhere.


I assume that lunesta is a Gaba-A agonists? What do you mean by conjecture


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

Jrock said:


> I assume that lunesta is a Gaba-A agonists? What do you mean by conjecture


Yes, Lunesta is a GABA-A agonist that binds to one of the benzodiazepine receptors.



> *con-jec-ture*
> 1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
> 2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.


The highlighted is the context I used it in.


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