# Can we learn something from Low Dose Naltrexone?



## Selection10 (Oct 7, 2009)

*What med do you take*

Just curious what medication is effective for SA for the most part?


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

It's backwards...

Under the actual effects of the drugs, you're going to make the patient more depressed, more anxious, less motivated, etc. The purpose would ultimately be to make use of the withdrawal symptoms of these drugs, and generally (I can't think of any exceptions), it takes longer for a drug to cause a certain degree of up/downregulation than it does for the brain to adjust back somewhere close to baseline when one stops using it. In other words, you're going to put the patient through more **** than it's worth.

I could MAYBE see some potential for this in acutely suicidal patients if you can somehow justify putting them into a coma for a period of time.

Taking it at night while sleeping can also be a useful way to sidestep the negative effects of the drug, but with, say, a GABA antagonist like flumazenil, you're going to be creating anxiety and making it MORE difficult for the patient to sleep.


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## IllusionalFate (Sep 10, 2008)

The only thing I've read about naltrexone that makes me interested:


Wikipedia said:


> Dr. Jaak Panksepp of Washington State University has conducted studies using naltrexone to treat patients with autism. He found that half the autistic children treated with the drug become more social.


How could a drug which reduces reward have a prosocial effect? :con


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

IllusionalFate said:


> The only thing I've read about naltrexone that makes me interested:
> 
> How could a drug which reduces reward have a prosocial effect? :con


What doses were used? In ultra low dosages it wont have any antisocial effects.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

IllusionalFate said:


> The only thing I've read about naltrexone that makes me interested:
> 
> How could a drug which reduces reward have a prosocial effect? :con


I can only talk about this anecdotally but opioids, while I really enjoy the feeling and the overall experience, make me antisocial, if anything, and really easily irritated at other people. I've taken strong opioids (primarily dilaudid) both medically and recreationally maybe 200 times or so and this effect is very consistent for me whether it's something as weak as hydrocodone cough syrup or something as strong as having 20mg morphine IV'ed.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> What doses were used? In ultra low dosages it wont have any antisocial effects.


Who says "normal" doses of naltrexone like 50mg / day make people antisocial?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Medline said:


> Who says "normal" doses of naltrexone like 50mg / day make people antisocial?


Opiates tend to work for social anxiety, they dont work for me tough but i've seen it reported a few times.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Opiates tend to work for social anxiety, they dont work for me tough but i've seen it reported a few times.


My experience is the exact opposite, as are the experiences of everyone I know. Opiates aren't a social drug... they are probably the most solitary class of drugs outside the dissociatives.

Honestly I attribute stuff like that more to wishful thinking than anything else...


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> Opiates tend to work for social anxiety, they dont work for me tough but i've seen it reported a few times.


Right, opioids can improve the symptoms of social anxiety (in some people), but altough the conclusion that an opioid antagonist like naltrexone does the opposite might sound logical, it's not true.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

meyaj said:


> My experience is the exact opposite, as are the experiences of everyone I know. Opiates aren't a social drug... they are probably the most solitary class of drugs outside the dissociatives.
> 
> Honestly I attribute stuff like that more to wishful thinking than anything else...


A recreational dose might shut you down but a lower dose could be prosocial.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Medline said:


> Right, opioids can improve the symptoms of social anxiety (in some people), but altough the conclusion that an opioid antagonist like naltrexone does the opposite might sound logical, it's not true.


I've seen one report of a guy using higher doses of naltrexone but he got depressed so i'm not convinced it would have good uses.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> I've seen one report of a guy using higher doses of naltrexone but he got depressed so i'm not convinced it would have good uses.


Yeah... either way I'm not really in any rush to start taking an opiate antagonist.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

meyaj said:


> Yeah... either way I'm not really in any rush to start taking an opiate antagonist.


Ultra low doses may be beneficial tough, but i havent seen any reports on using it that way.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> I've seen one report of a guy using higher doses of naltrexone but he got depressed so i'm not convinced it would have good uses.


http://www.rxlist.com/revia-drug.htm:



> Alcoholism:
> 
> Depression, suicidal ideation, and suicidal attempts have been reported in all groups when comparing naltrexone, placebo, or controls undergoing treatment for alcoholism.
> 
> ...


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Ultra low doses may be beneficial tough, but i havent seen any reports on using it that way.


Perhaps. I like opioids though, endogenous or otherwise :lol

But the studies were conducted on kids with autism. Which can be just as socially alienating as SA (or worse), but it's an entirely different monster with very different causes. I suspect if naltrexone is beneficial in such cases, it's probably something specific to at least autism spectrum disorders, and not something that generally makes anyone more sociable.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Medline said:


> http://www.rxlist.com/revia-drug.htm:


Very interesting.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Bump for intrest, as i've been reading a few reports on naltrexone and it seems to be really beneficial, i've seen a guy saying it works better the ritalin/amphetamine for his ADHD.

The other thing your saying about taking low doses of an antagonist at other receptors sounds pretty interesting. I think i saw before about someone mention to take seroques at night to prevent amphetamine receptor downregulation, didnt see any experiences with it tough.


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## zodiac55 (Mar 12, 2010)

LDN therapy is indeed a very interesting "accidental find" ...and from some of the results I've read about the stuff (for its more practical indications like autoimmune diseases via, I'm assuming, healthier endorphin transmission --> leading to re-sensitization of immune system to tell apart what's good and what's off-limits), it can be a miracle cure.

Alas, not necessarily so for stuff like SA, but even then, who's to say... proper endorphin activity is one of the master keys to a properly functioning mind-body connection (largely accounting for the "belief" aspect of placebo, if I'm not mistaken). It's too bad that it's downright next-to-impossible to bolster them by any nutritional means if there's something inherently wrong with them (so yes, that excludes stuff like hot peppers etc. ), as even opiATES carry a lot more of the "inhibitory" effects rather than the incredible "stimulating/health-promoting" ones that our natural endorphins provide. And they just sit there and bind to the receptors.. the same ones your endorphins should be at, which is a recipe for disaster in the long haul IMO.. ;P


Anyway.. this stuff's worthy of some attention; so if anyone's got any stories or updated stuff to share about it, feel free. /bump


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