# Excess of serotonin?



## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

I wonder if there is such a thing as too much serotonin. I wrote how bad SSRI effect on me. The only drug which reduced my sweating and rapid heartbeat was doxepin (5-HT2 antagonist) and mianserin (also serotonin receptor antagonist) reduced the negative symptoms of SSRI (rapid heartbeat, sweating, vasoconstriction). I wonder why I have such strong negative symptoms after meds works on serotonin. It is reportedly the theory that an excess of serotonin can also cause depression, as its deficiency.


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## Edwin (Jun 19, 2008)

An excess of serotonin will drop your dopamine and norepinephrine levels so much that you'll just lie in bed all day without caring about anything. Damn right that makes you depressed.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Too much serotonin is bad (can cause anxiety and depression) and can actually lead to death (serotonin syndrome), while too little can cause anxiety and depression. It's all about finding the right level, which, in my case, involved a lot of experimentation, trial and error. I wish there was a way to test how much serotonin your body or brain is taking in. I know they can test to see how much serotonin is there, but that doesn't really do any good.


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

200 mg 5HTP makes me want to sleep. Potent stuff.


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## rustybob (Nov 19, 2009)

For those who get bad reactions to SSRIs I don't think it has anything to do with too much/too little, but more with the fact that SSRIs increase activity at serotonin receptors. Activation at some of these receptors is what causes a lot of the side effects, and that's why parial agaonists/inverse agonists/antagonists are augmented to reduce side effects of SSRIs.

I responded quite negatively to monotherapy with Zoloft and Effexor, but right now Effexor is working well and is well tolerated for me combined with Remeron.


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

Edwin said:


> An excess of serotonin will drop your dopamine and norepinephrine levels so much that you'll just lie in bed all day without caring about anything. Damn right that makes you depressed.


I just get a boost from these drugs, akathisia, nervousness, sweating, rapid heartbeat, makes me cold (vasoconstriction). Such strange reaction ... I certainly did not calm down :f


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

rustybob said:


> For those who get bad reactions to SSRIs I don't think it has anything to do with too much/too little, but more with the fact that SSRIs increase activity at serotonin receptors. Activation at some of these receptors is what causes a lot of the side effects, and that's why parial agaonists/inverse agonists/antagonists are augmented to reduce side effects of SSRIs.
> 
> I responded quite negatively to monotherapy with Zoloft and Effexor, but right now Effexor is working well and is well tolerated for me combined with Remeron.


Very wise words, for me, unfortunately, I was 6 months on sertaline and It did not result in habituation the sertonin receptors. Do not know if it would ever happen. I have not had a greater increase in mood for those drugs ... I remember only the great agitation, sweating great (I was ashamed to give someone a hand because I sweated ...). Maybe I should try the mirtazapine without any SSRI or other serotonin drug.

I felt the best one week after discontinuation of SSRIs. I do not know why...

I also react positively to tianeptine - and that is the opposite of SSRIs.

Looks like my body did not like serotonin


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

Agree man. SSRI's are just a ****ty way to increase serotonin. tianeptine should work much better for everyone. (non neurotoxic) serotonin releasers are even better


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

Freesix88 said:


> 200 mg 5HTP makes me want to sleep. Potent stuff.


Yeah 5 htp makes me sleepy too.


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## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

Serotonin_Syndrome


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

Edwin said:


> An excess of serotonin will drop your dopamine and norepinephrine levels so much that you'll just lie in bed all day without caring about anything. Damn right that makes you depressed.


+ 1


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## mikoy (Aug 12, 2010)

I know about serotonin syndrome, but I have symptoms of it with a small dose of any serotonin drug :f Today I will try to block some 5-ht2 receptors with mirtazapine - 15 mg at night.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Low levels of serotonin are pretty unlikely to cause depression. Many studies seem to back this up that you probably have already read about. They also have found a man that produced hardly any serotonin, and he wasn't depressed.

WE also know that the less less active version of the gene that codes for the serotonin transporter (mimicking the effects of antidepressants, increasing serotonin signals) also predisposes a person to depression when combined with negative life events.
However, This Study show that the gene not only can cause depression, but positive emotions as well. Serotonin is the emotion molecule, "for better or for worse." In fact, this overemotional state could be seen as producing extremes of any feeling, be it sadness, anxiety, anger, or happiness (mania.)

Serotonin can make you FEEL MORE... but sometimes what we need is to FEEL LESS INTENSELY. Mania is really addictive, and it feels very right, but the price is too high.

Serotonin is generally a bad thing unless you're looking to party. It increases the reactivity of the amygdala. That's not a good thing. It's bad.

Wish I could get my hands on some Fenclonine. at the very least it would improve my sex drive.

The article can be found here.


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## Spungo (Jul 30, 2012)

Edwin said:


> An excess of serotonin will drop your dopamine and norepinephrine levels so much that you'll just lie in bed all day without caring about anything. Damn right that makes you depressed.


Sounds exactly like my Paxil adventure. It sucked. It made my depression much worse.

What's really dumb and frustrating is that your explanation perfectly describes atypical depression and why SSRI drugs are only slightly better than placebo in many studies. Atypical depression (being a tired vegetable) is actually the most common type of depression.
I remember ranting in 2006 about how useless SSRI drugs are and why dopamine was the main culprit in depression. That was back before I had more experience with _taking_ drugs, and I was basing my opinion entirely on wikipedia's article about dopamine since the list of what dopamine does is almost like a check list of depression - having low dopamine perfectly matches the symptoms of atypical depression. Now that I do have more experience with legal and illegal drugs, I'm an even stronger believer that dopamine should be the target for depression.


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## Dark Shines (Feb 11, 2013)

I've pretty much given up on the whole anti-depressant thing for the same reason. They just don't seem to agree with me and it puts me through too much grief, which is difficult to cope with on top of the depression itself.

When I took Venlafaxine, I developed painful red welts all over my body within 24 hours.

When I took Sertraline, I ended up stupidly high, hallucinating, getting really intense open eyed visuals and just physically couldn't lose consciousness, I went for a few days without sleeping at all and just ended up feeling really ill and sick, so I stopped them.

When I took Fluoxetine, I just ended up intensely confused all the time, had impaired short term memory and couldn't concentrate on anything. Could just about get to sleep on this one but only broken and shallow sleep, I gave up after a month, as it was making me feel like a zombie.

I haven't tried MAOIs, but I really don't want any more grief with medication so I'm probably not going to bother.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

2mg of cipralex seems to work. To bad ssri level all sertonin out to one setting. I guess we do lose are sence of feelings. Which makes coming off these a Bit*h. But maybe not impossible.


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## jakeforpresident (Sep 27, 2009)

Spungo said:


> Sounds exactly like my Paxil adventure. It sucked. It made my depression much worse.
> 
> What's really dumb and frustrating is that your explanation perfectly describes atypical depression and why SSRI drugs are only slightly better than placebo in many studies. Atypical depression (being a tired vegetable) is actually the most common type of depression.
> I remember ranting in 2006 about how useless SSRI drugs are and why dopamine was the main culprit in depression. That was back before I had more experience with _taking_ drugs, and I was basing my opinion entirely on wikipedia's article about dopamine since the list of what dopamine does is almost like a check list of depression - having low dopamine perfectly matches the symptoms of atypical depression. Now that I do have more experience with legal and illegal drugs, I'm an even stronger believer that dopamine should be the target for depression.


Having low dopamine seems to explain a lot of depression. I am prescribed Ritalin for mild ADD, but rarely take it because of tolerance issues.
It seems to make me more paranoid, but there is just no room for depression.

My theory:

1>Low SerotoninLow Dopamine=Lethargy/Lack of Motivation, Calm, and Sleep Disturbance
2>Low SerotoninHigh Dopamine=Motivated, Hypersexual, Outgoing, Cool calm and collected
3>High SerotoninLow Dopamine=Atypical Depression: too much sleep, lack of motivation, anxiety
4>High SerotoninHigh Dopamine=Agitated Depression; paranoia, anxiety, motivated, hopeless, angry.

I think Ritalin switches me from 3 to 4, but also lowers some serotonin, which is where the real benefits come into play.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

Edwin said:


> An excess of serotonin will drop your dopamine and norepinephrine levels so much that you'll just lie in bed all day without caring about anything. Damn right that makes you depressed.


thats how I ****ing feel right now, you couldnt have said it better!!!


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## Chabil (Sep 1, 2016)

jakeforpresident said:


> Having low dopamine seems to explain a lot of depression. I am prescribed Ritalin for mild ADD, but rarely take it because of tolerance issues.
> It seems to make me more paranoid, but there is just no room for depression.
> 
> My theory:
> ...


"motivated, hopeless"

What does that mean ?

Dunno if your "theory" makes any sens, actually I agree on some points but it seems you are contradicting yourself, you are praising serotonine benefits while in the same time explaining that the Low serotonine/"high" dopamine case has only little negative consequences, which is hypersexuality

I believe I am in that case, Low serotonine/Normal dopamine, and it's true I am motivated, hypersexual, outgoing I would say yes but not always it depends, but I also have been diagnosed with anxiety disorder


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## neonknight77 (May 21, 2017)

Too much serotonin naturally would not really come to play as the body regulates these unless you have abused many drugs in the past which caused mutations.

If you want to balance out all neurotransmitters, take some MAOI's, just not over 60mg. Otherwise, TCA's will work really good.

Table found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imipramine#Comparison_with_other_antidepressants

Jesli widzisz, ze wiekszosc tych lekow ma dobra reputacje i dziala na wiekszosc neurotransmattorow. Chcesz poprawic serotonin, to patrz na leki ktore maja wiecej dzialalnosci na dopamine i adrenaline zamiast serotonine. Nie sluchaj wiekszosc co tutaj mowia. Sprobuj Amitryptaline lub Imipramine, albo jak chcesz cos miej szilnejszego to dzialo na *Desipramine. *Albo znakdz lekarza z kolezenstwa co moze ci importowac Fenelzyne czy cos w tym stylu. Jak cos to dawaj na Skypa.


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## Captainmycaptain (Sep 23, 2012)

The most common side effects of anti-depressants are depression and suicide. Please contact your doctor immediately if you have killed yourself.


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## Hordak (May 5, 2017)

neonknight77 said:


> Too much serotonin naturally would not really come to play as the body regulates these unless you have abused many drugs in the past which caused mutations.
> 
> If you want to balance out all neurotransmitters, take some MAOI's, just not over 60mg. Otherwise, TCA's will work really good.
> 
> ...


Witaj, kolego 
Pozdrawiam z Niemiec!


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## amQ (Nov 25, 2017)

jakeforpresident said:


> Having low dopamine seems to explain a lot of depression. I am prescribed Ritalin for mild ADD, but rarely take it because of tolerance issues.
> It seems to make me more paranoid, but there is just no room for depression.
> 
> My theory:
> ...


Can you please describe your theory more detailed? More feelings about every case, because I'm trying to figure out which is my case. I used to take Zoloft for social anxiety, which worked well, then I stopped and it was fine for couple of months... After I started again, it didn't work as effective as before. Doc switched me on Wellbutrin, but that didn't work at all.


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## kageri (Oct 2, 2014)

Serotonin is actually what increases alertness and reactivity to a point. Majority of serotonin receptors are not anxiety reducing. Many major neurotransmitters do not have one purpose and different receptors have slightly to greatly different impact with the affinity for them changed by various triggers. That's why high and low levels can often have the same symptoms. Half the dopamine receptors are excitatory and half reduce nervous system activity. Too little dopamine causes insomnia, too much dopamine causes insomnia. The correct amount moving between the correct receptors and cycling up and down during the day in the correct amounts creates the balance to avoid all sorts of psychiatric and physical issues. The same can be true of serotonin. Both also convert to other things and concentrations trigger each other or other hormones and neurotransmitters. Dopamine can convert to norepinephrine and fuel adrenaline responses while serotonin should provide for more melatonin when it is time to downregulate activity and sleep. Norepinephrine can actually increase the conversion of melatonin due to feedback systems when the brain recognizes the amount is not a necessary response for the current situation. Those things keep everything balancing out. This can malfunction in all sorts of complex ways with overlapping symptoms. 

I can't take anything that directly raises serotonin and I even run into problems with natural sources such as lots of sunlight exposure. Natural sources are a little different without the instant anxiety reaction of SSRI's but still result in stress, insomnia, etc... Mirtazapine can be useful because it is a serotonin antagonist of all but the receptor that has the most calming, concentration improvement effects so it may reduce uncommon negative effects of serotonin while it has no interference with dopamine or several other systems that other antidepressants or anxiolytics might.

Actually I was taking adderall and am now taking vyvanse in low doses. Who knows if there is actually an adhd component but much like my response to serotonin my response to stimulants is paradoxical. Caffeine makes me relaxed and sleep better. I was taking adderall chips, ~2mg when 20mg over the day is a fairly normal dose, at first to go to sleep when I found myself still awake in late hours. I think as dopamine levels came back to normal it caused that not to be useful but it still gives me no anxiety or anything negative except I can talk really fast now if I don't apply conscious effort when I take 15mg adderall or 30mg vyvanse. Words can form as fast as thoughts can now. I was using just dopamine supplements and supporting supplements but I ran into a wall where adding more dopamine no longer makes a difference versus the improved use of it stimulants can promote. I do not find norepinephrine is beneficial when it's sometimes used alone to treat adhd or there are the SNRIs like effexor and I actually stopped clonidine which is sometimes used as a sedating alternative to stimulants despite its' increase of norepinephrine activity. It gets complex how it fully works but it's distribution of dopamine and norepinephrine reduces nervous system activity while still supporting cognitive function. Instead though I was getting what felt like adrenaline spikes sometimes while just dopamine is relaxing and makes me feel more positive toward people. Serotonin probably makes me more paranoid of people instead lol The whole typical treatment approach has just been so utterly backward for me I think I've written off psychiatry as established medicine at this point. If it truly was a cross of neurology and psychology it would be useful but it's not. It's just the only person who can/will write out prescriptions for schedule 2 amphetamines while having no idea that I can tell why they are helpful.


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

@kageri sounds like your on some adderall right now


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## SSRIManiac (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm starting to notice, man I feel retarded with too much serotonin. 

When I took a break from my meds I got better, but going back on them I got anxious and couldn't look ppl in the eyes as much. Right now I'm on a low dose Mao drug which is more balanced on all neurotransmitters.


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## Hordak (May 5, 2017)

Edwin said:


> An excess of serotonin will drop your dopamine and norepinephrine levels so much that you'll just lie in bed all day without caring about anything. Damn right that makes you depressed.


That's what pure SRIs do to me. Anhedonia, Apathy, Indifference, less libido...


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