# Fallout 4



## nooneknowsmyname

YES YES YES
YESSSSSSSS


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## Steinerz

I haven't really checked into it because I don't want to get myself excited.


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## nooneknowsmyname

Steiner of Thule said:


> I haven't really checked into it because I don't want to get myself excited.


Perfect reaction .gif


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## nooneknowsmyname

Neo said:


> Finally a game I can REALLY look forward to. This one I can't wait. Love Fallout. It may be the game that convinces me to get a decent gaming PC.


I know right? There hasn't been a decent game release in a long while. I was hyped for Watchdogs, but was disappointed in it a little...

If you do get a gaming rig, I recommend building it yourself. It's not as hard as you may think and it's a lot cheaper too.


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## OutsideR1

nooneknowsmyname said:


> I know right?* There hasn't been a decent game release in a long while.* I was hyped for Watchdogs, but was disappointed in it a little...
> 
> If you do get a gaming rig, I recommend building it yourself. It's not as hard as you may think and it's a lot cheaper too.


I guess you were asleep for the last 2 weeks with witcher 3 coming out which is fast becoming my favoruite game of all time. But yeah, happy for fallout.


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## saya2077

Haha I waited with the count down in another tab for 3 hours.


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## KelsKels

Pretty stoked. I've been playing Fallout 3 again since there were first rumors of Bethesda holding an E3 conference.. pretty excited that it wasn't just a rumor this time!


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## IveGotToast

Haven't been this excited since Skyrim.


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## nooneknowsmyname

OutsideR1 said:


> I guess you were asleep for the last 2 weeks with witcher 3 coming out which is fast becoming my favoruite game of all time. But yeah, happy for fallout.


I don't care much for the witcher series... Never played it but hasn't really peaked my interest.


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## OutsideR1

nooneknowsmyname said:


> I don't care much for the witcher series... *Never played* it but hasn't really peaked my interest.


That's the problem. Ive only played some of 2 not all of it but this is open world and literally every side quest is hand crafted, there is no fetch quests like inquisition.


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## Pul5ar




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## Fat Man

Man I'm so hyped for Fallout 4, I'll buy a PS4 just to play this. If a PS3 version is announced, then I'll stick with that one instead.


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## Paper Samurai

NanoStar SOUL said:


> Man I'm so hyped for Fallout 4, I'll buy a PS4 just to play this. If a PS3 version is announced, then I'll stick with that one instead.


Dude, if you haven't upgraded yet you should seriously consider a PC. There's plenty of advice on what parts to buy and it's become really affordable. This is one of the best subreddits for this sort of thing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds



> *The Next-Gen Crusher*
> 
> Last refreshed: June 3rd, 2015. Version 7.6, latest revision by /u/RandomDudeOP . Provide feedback here.
> 
> *About*
> This is probably the best bang-for-your-buck build in this entire page. It renders any gaming console obsolete through superior performance, as the GPU is measured to be approximately 2x the power of the console-equivalent 260X. Considering that both next-gen consoles have significantly less processing power than this build (especially when you look at real-world gaming performance), this PC will have you absolutely set for the duration of the generation (if you're willing to drop your settings to what the consoles are locked at, which is usually around 900p, ~45FPS, and "Low-Medium"). This build in particular is suitable for running most modern games at 1080p/60fps/medium-high settings. It provides for PC versatility, as well. Do you want to play at 144fps on a 144Hz monitor for your First-person shooters? Perfect. Lower your settings and your framerate shoots up.
> If you have a maximum budget of $400, contact us here for a part list to fit your budget.
> PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
> 
> *CPU* AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor $94.89 @ OutletPC *Motherboard* MSI 760GMA-P34(FX) Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard [email protected] Micro Center *
> Memory* Team Elite Plus 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory $43.99 @ Newegg
> *Storage* Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $48.75 @ OutletPC *
> Video Card* Sapphire Radeon R9 280 3GB Dual-X Video Card $149.20 @ Newegg
> *Case* Thermaltake Versa H21 ATX Mid Tower Case $32.99 @ SuperBiiz *Power Supply* Corsair Builder 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $36.99 @ Newegg
> _Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts_
> 
> Total (before mail-in rebates) $496.80
> Mail-in rebates -$50.00
> *Total* *$446.80*
> Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-06-03 18:13 EDT-0400


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## Darktower776

Cannot freaking wait for Fallout 4. I'll probably need to get a PS4 to play it though. Just recently played through Fallout 3 again and thinking of re-starting New Vegas because I never actually beat the main storyline for that game.


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## fotschi

Paper Samurai said:


> Dude, if you haven't upgraded yet you should seriously consider a PC. There's plenty of advice on what parts to buy and it's become really affordable. This is one of the best subreddits for this sort of thing:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds


Don't waste your money, follow this man's advice. Plus PC has modding and stuff, it's a much better experience. And if you like controllers, you can get a controller and play with that on a computer.

Anyways yeah I can't wait for this to come out. I hope it has cars in it. Fallout 2 had 'em. They showed the helicopter thing in the trailer so it has my hopes up. I want to be the wasteland drift king.


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## MetalheadFurry

nooneknowsmyname said:


> YES YES YES
> YESSSSSSSS


Best damn series of last gen. and also probably going to be the only decent game from the next gens so far


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## Skeletra

I have way high hopes for this game


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## Estillum

The only game I've been hyped for in a very long time, I really hope they don't **** it up.


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## Persephone The Dread

I've heard you might not be able to play a female character because of the story. I'm hoping that isn't true, I generally play female characters in their rpgs.


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## Paper Samurai

Persephone The Dread said:


> I've heard you might not be able to play a female character because of the story. I'm hoping that isn't true, I generally play female characters in their rpgs.


I really hope this is not going to be 'babby's first Fallout' :serious: Brighter colour palette and now a structured rather than open ended story? I'll wait till more details emerge before I start to panic though...


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## Fat Man

Paper Samurai said:


> Dude, if you haven't upgraded yet you should seriously consider a PC. There's plenty of advice on what parts to buy and it's become really affordable. This is one of the best subreddits for this sort of thing:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds


I didn't even think about making my own PC, I've always wanted a gaming PC. Honestly, I always assumed building a PC was difficult but this makes it seem easy lol. Thanks for showing this to me.


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## blue2

Kewel I lived in fallout 3 for a while a few years back haven't played anything much recently


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## Persephone The Dread

Paper Samurai said:


> I really hope this is not going to be 'babby's first Fallout' :serious: Brighter colour palette and now a structured rather than open ended story? I'll wait till more details emerge before I start to panic though...


I'm hoping the atmosphere won't be too happy, I don't mind the brighter colours in cities and stuff and it does look cool, but I want it to feel a bit creepy/desolate at least occasionally.

People have criticised Bethesda's story telling in the past, so it's possible that they might make a more structured story in an attempt to make a more story focussed game. I hope not though because that's not something I've ever personally had issue with in their games and I like things being pretty open... Hopefully they'll talk about that at E3 though.



uffi said:


> I think that rumor is false. That would be so stupid if Bethesda did that.


It would seem really odd, and I don't think they'd take the risk with Elder Scrolls, but seeing as they adopted the Fallout franchise it would make sense to take more risks with it than the Elder Scrolls games... I dunno :/ I'm a pessimistic person lol. But on the bright side the reason people think that this claim is true in the first place, is because it came from a supposed ex employee who was right about the game being set in Boston, but there were already tons of rumours about that so *shrugs*

It's just weird though because my brother said he thought that you'd be playing as a set character after watching the trailer and because the character spoke. I didn't really see what he meant but then read about that rumour :/


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## Paper Samurai

NanoStar SOUL said:


> I didn't even think about making my own PC, I've always wanted a gaming PC. Honestly, I always assumed building a PC was difficult but this makes it seem easy lol. Thanks for showing this to me.


Cool man, I'm glad I've been able to spark an interest. There's some really good tutorials out there too to help people who are just getting started, here's one of the best one's I've found:


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## ShatteredGlass

emerahgerd colour!!111

Apparently people are complaining about the graphics... uh, why? They look fantastic. Shame I don't have a PS4. Or an Xbox One. Or a decent PC. Or money to buy any of those things.


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## iloverum

Finally revealed then, Fallout is one of those that i can lose myself in and ive missed it. all my favourite series from years ago like Stalker, Battlefield, GTA, Total War, Half-Life are either dead, MIA or been turned into something else entirely that i don't like and steam is overpriced, overhyped AAA titles and indie early acccess survival things so yeah, hopefully this will reignite my interest in this hobby again.


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## GodOfBeer

I can't wait for the sex mods!


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## jim11

It'll **** up your machine.


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## Slippin Jimmy

Would be nice if they added online co-op...


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## iminnocentenough

Sorry, but it looks terrible..


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## HenDoggy

yes, i can blow up small towns again


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## AngelClare

I'm still lost in the wastelands of Fallout 3. It seems these super mutants eat rockets for lunch. wft?

The character animations in Fallout 3 were abysmal. It looked like puppets walking. I liked the game but I took a wrong turn somewhere. I couldn't get past these super mutants.


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## Scrub-Zero




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## JadedCalalily

Can't freaking wait! Have fallout shelter on iPad mini


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## minimized

War. War never changes.


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## acidicwithpanic

I'm trying to limit my spending and that includes video games, but...


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## Surly Wurly

NanoStar SOUL said:


> Man I'm so hyped for Fallout 4, I'll buy a PS4 just to play this. If a PS3 version is announced, then I'll stick with that one instead.


i know this is kind of irrelevant but whats the back story for spidey getting hospitalised by too much hype, cant visualise


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## Enochian

It looks so damn good. I especially like how you can build your own settlements, that's a feature I've always wanted.


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## GodOfBeer

Surly Wurly said:


> i know this is kind of irrelevant but whats the back story for spidey getting hospitalised by too much hype, cant visualise


The picture is from Spidey TV show's episode called "To Cage a Spider". Spidey was chasing down two criminals who were getting away on a car. They use some kind of bomb that makes our poor Spidey unconscious and falls from a huge heightending up in hospital.

You can watch it on YouTube. I can't post the link because I'm on my phone.


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## Mortal Recoil

I have to say, the announcement trailer had me disappointed (not too different from what we've seen from the Fallout universe before, and the graphics and animations were very dated), but after the E3 video, my excitement was restored.

Love the idea of building your own base and customising your weapons. Plus, the voiced protagonist is pretty exciting as well. And I'm happy to see that it's not impossible to make a reasonably attractive character.


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## GodOfBeer

Mortal Recoil said:


> I have to say, the announcement trailer had me disappointed (not too different from what we've seen from the Fallout universe before, and the graphics and animations were very dated), but after the E3 video, my excitement was restored.
> 
> Love the idea of building your own base and customising your weapons. Plus, the voiced protagonist is pretty exciting as well. And I'm happy to see that it's not impossible to make a reasonably attractive character.


I spend hours trying to make an attractive character to not see their face ever again for the next 200 hours so what's the point anymore. Lol


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## Scrub-Zero

Interesting that xbox one will support mods(later on Playstation no doubt). I wonder if it will be crap like downloadable player homes(white lie to boost sales) or real mods with scripts like Fallout wanderer's edition?

Oh! On a side note. Looking forward to playing Missile Command on my pip boy.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

Trailer looks cool but I'm not entirely convinced by the Bethesda era Fallouts, New Vegas had a lot of good moments but was also very flawed. Ugly and a bit dull, it's the first time I felt I had to mod a game heavily just to make it ok. They still haven't topped Fallout 2 imo. I will look forward to it though.


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## just a random londoner

I normally try and avoid getting caught up in all the 'hype' around game announcements but screw it for a new fallout im jumping in the water and riding the hypewave all the way to megaton and back lol only thing I could have cared about more would have been knights of the old republic 3 but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen anytime soon.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

Scrub-Zero said:


> Interesting that xbox one will support mods(later on Playstation no doubt). I wonder if it will be crap like downloadable player homes(white lie to boost sales) or real mods with scripts like Fallout wanderer's edition?
> .


Post-apocalyptic horse armors.


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## GodOfBeer

Scrub-Zero said:


> Interesting that xbox one will support mods(later on Playstation no doubt). I wonder if it will be crap like downloadable player homes(white lie to boost sales) or real mods with scripts like Fallout wanderer's edition?
> 
> Oh! On a side note. Looking forward to playing Missile Command on my pip boy.


My guess is that the mods on consoles will be poor quality like the ones on Steam Workshop. The ENB mods as well as the best and more complex mods with scripts will remain on Nexus.

I mean, you probably know how delicate and slightly complex modding can be. No way that could work well on consoles so it has to be casual like on Steam.


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## dadadoom

Thats old news, check this!! 




Doesn´t look that good, in fact... :/

Bethesda is ALL stories though, if the missions, factions, characters and dialogue are engaging then graphics and design can be mediocre. Gameplay must stay decent though, as much of the joy of Fallout is dismembering things and persons who want to kill you with explosions, cuts and contusions, plus them being somewhat challenging.


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## dadadoom

AngelClare said:


> I'm still lost in the wastelands of Fallout 3. It seems these super mutants eat rockets for lunch. wft?
> 
> The character animations in Fallout 3 were abysmal. It looked like puppets walking. I liked the game but I took a wrong turn somewhere. I couldn't get past these super mutants.


They are tough, just bulk up your level and equipment and blow up their head with a good machine gun like that chinese one the black sheriff at Megaton has (yeah kill him and rob it lol) or possibly better one of those expensive sniper guns. One of the things I remember more vividly of Fallout 3 was using VATS to empty loaders in the face of supermutants.

Missiles are generally just for fun and not that functional.


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## dadadoom

Darktower776 said:


> Cannot freaking wait for Fallout 4. I'll probably need to get a PS4 to play it though. Just recently played through Fallout 3 again and thinking of re-starting New Vegas because I never actually beat the main storyline for that game.


Really? The bosses of either faction are very fun to beat, and so are the final battles, especially when you play against the Legion.

I recommend you to finish the game, it is worth it.


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## Darktower776

dadadoom said:


> Really? The bosses of either faction are very fun to beat, and so are the final battles, especially when you play against the Legion.
> 
> I recommend you to finish the game, it is worth it.


Yeah I probably will in the meantime before getting a PS4. In these huge open world games like Skyrim and Fallout 3, I get sucked into the huge world and get sidetracked doing side quests and collecting things, doing jobs etc. Sometimes I'll have poured dozens and dozens of hours into one of those games but end up getting bored before returning to the main actual storyline to beat the game.


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## Scrub-Zero

thedevilsblood said:


> Post-apocalyptic horse armors.


haha. 



Darktower776 said:


> Yeah I probably will in the meantime before getting a PS4. In these huge open world games like Skyrim and Fallout 3, I get sucked into the huge world and get sidetracked doing side quests and collecting things, doing jobs etc. Sometimes I'll have poured dozens and dozens of hours into one of those games but end up getting bored before returning to the main actual storyline to beat the game.


I never finished Skyrim, but i've made at least 10+ level 60+ characters for it. Just wasn't interested in the dragon born(more like dragon corn-y) main quest.

I just loaded my game with mods and explored the world.



GodOfBeer said:


> My guess is that the mods on consoles will be poor quality like the ones on Steam Workshop. The ENB mods as well as the best and more complex mods with scripts will remain on Nexus.
> 
> I mean, you probably know how delicate and slightly complex modding can be. No way that could work well on consoles so it has to be casual like on Steam.


A good ENB would probably make the xbox puff out some smoke lol.


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## AngelClare

Darktower776 said:


> Yeah I probably will in the meantime before getting a PS4. In these huge open world games like Skyrim and Fallout 3, I get sucked into the huge world and get sidetracked doing side quests and collecting things, doing jobs etc. Sometimes I'll have poured dozens and dozens of hours into one of those games but end up getting bored before returning to the main actual storyline to beat the game.


lol. Just like in real life I have trouble saying no to people. I end up doing too many side quests and never finish the main mission.


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## Beast And The Harlot

This game sounds awesome as hell.

Hopefully it's not a buggy mess like 3 though...


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## Darktower776

Beast And The Harlot said:


> This game sounds awesome as hell.
> 
> Hopefully it's not a buggy mess like 3 though...


A game this big, you know it will have its fair share of bugs. I just hope they are able to patch them quickly and efficiently and that the game is at least playable and beatable out of the box. What I mean is that I hope there aren't any game halting/breaking bugs at launch.


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## Beast And The Harlot

Darktower776 said:


> A game this big, you know it will have its fair share of bugs. I just hope they are able to patch them quickly and efficiently and that the game is at least playable and beatable out of the box. What I mean is that I hope there aren't any game halting/breaking bugs at launch.


Yeah.

It's just my copy froze/crashed SO many times to the point it was pretty much unplayable for me.

I'll probably just wait for the game of the year edition tho...


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## Scrub-Zero

Beast And The Harlot said:


> This game sounds awesome as hell.
> 
> Hopefully it's not a buggy mess like 3 though...


It's a Bethesda product. It would break tradition if it didn't came out buggy as heck. Even their free game Fallout shelter crashes a lot


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## Beast And The Harlot

Scrub-Zero said:


> It's a Bethesda product. It would break tradition if it didn't came out buggy as heck. Even their free game Fallout shelter crashes a lot


Dude so true haha.

Let's hope the new Doom doesn't suffer the same fate.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

Scrub-Zero said:


> It's a Bethesda product. It would break tradition if it didn't came out buggy as heck. Even their free game Fallout shelter crashes a lot


I couldn't even boot Fallout 3 on my pc without some mod / unnofficial patch ^ ^


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## dadadoom

Darktower776 said:


> Yeah I probably will in the meantime before getting a PS4. In these huge open world games like Skyrim and Fallout 3, I get sucked into the huge world and get sidetracked doing side quests and collecting things, doing jobs etc. Sometimes I'll have poured dozens and dozens of hours into one of those games but end up getting bored before returning to the main actual storyline to beat the game.


Indeed! I actually never finished Fallout 3 because of that, and it is my favourite game... You sound a lot like me haha!

But trust me, I DID finish the New Vegas main storyline for whatever reason, and it was cool as fvck.


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## GodOfBeer

dadadoom said:


> Indeed! I actually never finished Fallout 3 because of that, and it is my favourite game... You sound a lot like me haha!
> 
> But trust me, I DID finish the New Vegas main storyline for whatever reason, and it was cool as fvck.


Yes, it is indeed. My favorite ending was with Yes Man. What ending did you get? All of them?


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## Ignopius

The game will be good. But its far overhyped.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

GodOfBeer said:


> Yes, it is indeed. My favorite ending was with Yes Man. What ending did you get? All of them?


Same 








My game had close to 100 hours with all DLCs completed and as much quests as I could do, before all the factions started to hate me and shoot me on sight.


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## GodOfBeer

thedevilsblood said:


> Same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My game had close to 100 hours with all DLCs completed and as much quests as I could do, before all the factions started to hate me and shoot me on sight.


I have 127 hours with all endings but without dlcs. I was planning a 5th playthrough but got a bit tired. The ending with Yes Man was my favorite especially because he is the most hilarious character in the game. 
It was also badass the moment when him and your securitrons show up from that dust when the NCR general was giving you the congratulations.


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## Beast And The Harlot

I want Wild Wasteland to return dammit! 

Why couldn't Obsidian be making this...


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## Beast And The Harlot

uffi said:


> I still can't believe this is actually coming out this year. I managed to secure a pip-boy edition on amazon before it sold out


Lucky!:b

I think they're going to do another release though.


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## dadadoom

GodOfBeer said:


> Yes, it is indeed. My favorite ending was with Yes Man. What ending did you get? All of them?


Yes Man was pretty neat, but I didn´t like the fact that end implies that the Mojave goes haywire.

My favorite ending was with the California Republic, just because you get to blast that giant masked guy from the Legion. He´s tough! Yeah and I got into a ballistic fist fight with one of the Caesar´s guys, we both hit each other at the same time... but I punched faster the second time... and he exploded. That was fun.


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## dadadoom

GodOfBeer said:


> I have 127 hours with all endings but without dlcs. I was planning a 5th playthrough but got a bit tired. The ending with Yes Man was my favorite especially because he is the most hilarious character in the game.
> It was also badass the moment when him and your securitrons show up from that dust when the NCR general was giving you the congratulations.


Maybe I was weak, but didn´t anyone notice what insane damage these NCR snipers/special forces did? When the securitrons appeared I was like "Yeah, that´s right, f4gs, you lose" but then I got hit once and then twice rapidly by enemy fire a milisecond after closing the dialogue leaving me with like 5% of life and realised I had to hide while the robots fought for me.

I stayed behind a wall until it was over. It felt bad. lol


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## dadadoom

thedevilsblood said:


> There was 2 endings with Yes Man, with the upgraded securitrons the Mojave was rightfully kept in order under your dominance lol.
> 
> Good job for exploding that guy with your bare fists hehe. I also had a good laugh with the Elvis gang in Vegas. The voice over for that guy was priceless.


Hah right these guys were funny.

...

I killed them all.

The Fallout games are like reading a book, and so was Oblivion. Pieces of art IMO, pieces of art...


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## GodOfBeer

dadadoom said:


> Yes Man was pretty neat, but I didn´t like the fact that end implies that the Mojave goes haywire.
> 
> My favorite ending was with the California Republic, just because you get to blast that giant masked guy from the Legion. He´s tough! Yeah and I got into a ballistic fist fight with one of the Caesar´s guys, we both hit each other at the same time... but I punched faster the second time... and he exploded. That was fun.


Oh, Lanius. He's the strongest enemy in the entire game even more than a deathclaw. It took me two shots with the Fat Man to kill him and Fat Man has the second highest damage after the Alien Blaster. I enjoyed more the Legion ending because you didn't have to fight him haha.



dadadoom said:


> Maybe I was weak, but didn´t anyone notice what insane damage these NCR snipers/special forces did? When the securitrons appeared I was like "Yeah, that´s right, f4gs, you lose" but then I got hit once and then twice rapidly by enemy fire a milisecond after closing the dialogue leaving me with like 5% of life and realised I had to hide while the robots fought for me.
> 
> I stayed behind a wall until it was over. It felt bad. lol


Haha. It happened the same thing to me. I kept dying because they kill you in seconds. I ran away and hide as soon as the dialogue was over. I barely survived.


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## dadadoom

GodOfBeer said:


> Oh, Lanius. He's the strongest enemy in the entire game even more than a deathclaw. It took me two shots with the Fat Man to kill him and Fat Man has the second highest damage after the Alien Blaster. I enjoyed more the Legion ending because you didn't have to fight him haha.


Ah you decided to just go nuclear with him? Quick´n easy. Thats how I dealt with that huge supermutant in Fallout 3. I killed Lanius always using the same strategy, with that grenade machinegun (really fun weapon) I drained like half of his life plus always badly crippled his legs so he ran much slower and then sniped his head off.

Good to know I wasn´t the only weakling with that ending! I appreciate that sometimes a game becomes too difficult though, it adds that realistic tone to it. Sometimes in life you lose, or have to let others fight for you.

I hope Fallout 4 becomes another source of anecdotes for us!


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## GodOfBeer

dadadoom said:


> Ah you decided to just go nuclear with him? Quick´n easy. Thats how I dealt with that huge supermutant in Fallout 3. I killed Lanius always using the same strategy, with that grenade machinegun (really fun weapon) I drained like half of his life plus always badly crippled his legs so he ran much slower and then sniped his head off.
> 
> Good to know I wasn´t the only weakling with that ending! I appreciate that sometimes a game becomes too difficult though, it adds that realistic tone to it. Sometimes in life you lose, or have to let others fight for you.
> 
> I hope Fallout 4 becomes another source of anecdotes for us!


Yeah, haha. I wasn't strong enough to carry a minigun. I was more the Cowboy gunslinger and especialist in explosives. I had only my thump-thump but it wasn't enough to stopped him so I went full nuclear. It gives me a pleasure to use the Fat Man because it's so powerful but the ammo is rare (only 14 nukes) so the moment when you use it becomes especial.

I also defeated Lanius with speech as my other character. It gives a great satisfaction and you can have a lot of fun completing quests without wasting a single ammo. It's harder to survive but not when you get Rex and know the map well.

I'll probably be a heavy weapon guy in Fallout 3 when I get to it especially because of these supermutants that I keep hearing about.


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## dadadoom

GodOfBeer said:


> Yeah, haha. I wasn't strong enough to carry a minigun. I was more the Cowboy gunslinger and especialist in explosives. I had only my thump-thump but it wasn't enough to stopped him so I went full nuclear. It gives me a pleasure to use the Fat Man because it's so powerful but the ammo is rare (only 14 nukes) so the moment when you use it becomes especial.
> 
> I also defeated Lanius with speech as my other character. It gives a great satisfaction and you can have a lot of fun completing quests without wasting a single ammo. It's harder to survive but not when you get Rex and know the map well.
> 
> I'll probably be a heavy weapon guy in Fallout 3 when I get to it especially because of these supermutants that I keep hearing about.


Exactly, every time you use the Fat Man becomes an special ocassion :grin2:

Ah me too, used persuasion once with Lanius. Bethesda guys like the dialogue options, and so do I, but normally its funnier the slaughter! 
>


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## dadadoom

Forget the hype, its all justified:






Please watch that mole rat fight. WOOOWWWWWW.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

Wow, looks really promising. I hope the story is up to par. A bit wary about the idea of a hero from pre apocalypse surviving 200 years. But **** it, I'm joining the hype train. I wanna play it NAOW.


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## Surly Wurly

Ignopius said:


> The game will be good. But its far *overhyped*.


how'd you figure that?

I haven't seen anything about it that I didn't deliberately look for.


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## Ignopius

Surly Wurly said:


> how'd you figure that?
> 
> I haven't seen anything about it that I didn't deliberately look for.


From what I've seen of the game, it doesn't look like a huge step over Fall Out New Vegas. Yes, I'm excited for more Fall Out, and yes it will be a good game, but I don't find it revolutionary or innovative. Maybe I am wrong. This is based on my first impressions. We will see when it comes out.


----------



## Surly Wurly

Ignopius said:


> From what I've seen of the game, it doesn't look like a huge step over Fall Out New Vegas. Yes, I'm excited for more Fall Out, and yes it will be a good game, but I don't find it revolutionary or innovative. Maybe I am wrong. This is based on my first impressions. We will see when it comes out.


no i just mean i dont think i have seen it being hyped at all. people are excited about it, sure, but thats because its a much loved franchise. its not like they are doing much to advertise it at this stage.


----------



## Beast And The Harlot

Between this and quite a few other games coming out this year, my wallet is crying.


----------



## TangoTiger

I really want to play it. Hopefully its not buggy and crashes till I get a patch 3 months later like NV though... but I really can't play it. I'll have a lot going on starting this fall and video games are last on my list to do.


----------



## fingertips

i'm a bit wary about this. i hope they do understand that there's more to fallout than vault boy and walking around in crumbly old buildings that nobody's bothered to clean up yet.


----------



## Beast And The Harlot

thedevilsblood said:


> Maybe too early to speculate, but I read in an old interview that Bethesda and Obsidian had an agreement about the former developing Fallout games for for the northern side of the US (in that case Boston), while the latter would take care of the southern side/California. Hopefully we'll get a new Obsidian game after Fallout 4. I want to explore the Mojave with that new game engine.


Speaking of which:

http://kotaku.com/bethesda-actually-lets-fan-pay-for-fallout-4-with-2-200-1713989151


----------



## AngelClare

So...I just beat Fallout 3. I bought it back when it was released in 2008. Has it really been 7 years? lol 

I don't really play RPGs so I got frustrated put it down and never started again. But I always meant to finish it because there was a lot to like.

It took a mere 28 hours....lol. I feel guilty for spending 28 hours on a game. 

Anyway, I beat it. Bring on Fallout 4.


----------



## overthinkingmyusername

I'm a little skeptical about the voiced dialogue, but other than that the hype is real.
If this game turns out as good as I think it will, I'm not going outside for a _very_ long time.


----------



## iloverum

bump for monday guys/girls have you seen the advert on TV yet?.


----------



## feels

One of the only things I'm looking forward to right now. 3 days.


----------



## Persephone The Dread

feels said:


> One of the only things I'm looking forward to right now. 3 days.


Hah this is great. I've been spending too much time on tumblr because I got the urge to reblog and realised where I am.


----------



## losthismarbles

It's 4am and I just started downloading this. 
Only 20 more GBs to go...


----------



## Kiba

Jesus Christ building is annoying as hell. Can't rotate walls and autoplacement wants to keep going in a straight line vs turning, and nothings level...... Other than the building aspect, having a lot of fun. I wish durability still existed for weapons and armor though for the simple fact i've accumulated like 30 guns since i started 8 hours ago. The reverse Skyrim dumbing down leveling/ or "streamlining" (ie, taking away skills and leaving attributes vs. taking away attributes and leaving skills) plus perks i thought was going to suck, but i'm totally digging. However it totally voids attributes as a tool for roleplaying since they can freely level throughout the game vs. being relatively fixed. I like the voice acting too. Deathclaws are absolutely terrifying..... They don't look like starved sabertooth tiger-bear-dogs anymore, they are ****ing gigantic.


----------



## twitchy666

*Fallout 2 or 3?*

straight in the bin. Couldn't put up with the annoying controls - unable to change

I'm lost for anything to do with my 360. Important when TV is so boring. Forza 3 is all I decided to buy again after selling.


----------



## Estillum

Disappointed. It does't feel like a bad game by any means.. It just feels shallow. All the RPG elements are massively simplified or removed, the dialogue trees are massively simplified.. but for what? There are only 2 new additions this game has that are improvements and that's the ability to mix and match armor and the improved character creation.I don't care about building a house, I don't care about power armour. I don't want a voice acted character because that lessens dialogue options and makes attempting to play the game with a totally different character feel weird, which you can't do anyway due to the 2 minute backstory that forces you into a set role and limits your character to a single entity. One of the major reasons I've spent so much time in the fallout series and latter elder scrolls games is that you can play the games dozens of times and each time be someone else and have a different experience. Largely due two things: One, the fact that your characters backstory was nonexistent so you could make up your own, or even in fallout 3's case you could be whoever you wanted to be in that backstory. And two your could play the entire game as that character though your actions and dialogue. But in fallout 4 no matter what you do you are ostensibly the same person acting differently in different scenarios. You will always will have been married to some soldier **** and and have had a child with that soldier ****, and that is the main crux of the story. I don't ****ing care about my husband or my son, I don't care that he died and I don't care to look for Shaun. I sold the ****ing wedding rings as the very first shop. I want to have my own character but instead I'm latched to a what feels like a premade character. In a rpg in which you can control all of your character's beliefs and actions there should not feel like there are actions that are "out of character". My character would want to find her baby, and would care about her husband, but I do not, and any action veering away from that path feels like something the character would not do. Also due to the decision to have the character voice acted the dialogue option are severally limited and again make it feel like you are choosing paths for someone else's character. And that's not even mentioning the fact that skills are now gone and your S.P.E.C.I.A.L can be augmented every level, so If I say want my character to be a meat-head, or a sneak-thief, or a worm-tongue, I'd be **** out of ****ing luck. So in short, The RPG aspect of the RPG is ****ing bust.

There is still the exploration aspect, the other thing that is so absorbing and great about the other games, but so far there doesn't feel like there is anything worth finding. It feels like the wasteland of fallout 3 with less thought put into it, and as I wander yet another ruined factory, and yet another raider infested shanty, and turn onto yet another super mutant infested avenue, I can't help but feel my interest waning. I want to put more time into it, I want to like it, but so far all this game is making me want to do is boot up it's predecessors.

Edit: There are other things worth mentioning, like muddy textures, plastic looking people( though it is only some of them and replicants are part of the story so maybe it's deliberate but it still looks like **** ), some extremely weak voice acting here and there, as well as some dialogue bugs that have people facing walls and walking away while talking.. But none of that would been a deal breaker if the game was fundamentally a fun game, which for me it hasn't been.


----------



## JadedCalalily

Day 1 of Fallout 4. Specimen has showed little change although her basic hygiene rituals have relaxed a bit. Notice the unbrushed hair and smudged makeup under eyes. The specimen did not remove her makeup before bed, we assume she fell asleep while playing. We will closely monitor her and document the ongoing changes, should there be any. Also note, she has already given up on pants. #fallout #fallout4 #fallout3 #bethesda #vaulttec #wonderer


----------



## Kiba

Estillum said:


> .


I don't really feel like a lot of this was all that surprising, Skyrim kind of foreshadowed the continuation of the "streamlining" of the rpg process with future Bethesda releases, so it only made sense that they would continue to do so. I agree with all your points though.


----------



## feels

Estillum said:


> *I don't care about building a house, I don't care about power armour. I don't want a voice acted character because that lessens dialogue options and makes attempting to play the game with a totally different character feel weird, which you can't do anyway due to the 2 minute backstory that forces you into a set role and limits your character to a single entity.*


This is exactly what's making this so hard for me to enjoy as well. Nearly all of it just feels like a downgrade. I dunno. I'm excited to meet new characters and find out where the story is headed but otherwise... 
┐('～`；)┌


----------



## Scrub-Zero

I figured it was going to be another toned down casual game by Bethesda. It's even worst than Skyrim. Wait for mods, guys. Wait until there's a lot of mods.

But the Robbaz videos about it are good though.


----------



## Aribeth

I actually prefer having a voiced character with a set story. I feel like I'm playing a human right now instead of some generic overpowered random person that nobody cares about. I feel like the way I made her look matches her voice perfectly. Too bad the dialogues are so simple.


----------



## SplendidBob

God damn old gaming machine blew up last night whilst I was getting it updated for this. Unless I can get this game somehow working on my craptop, I won't be able to play it for a while.


----------



## Kiba

Scrub-Zero said:


> I figured it was going to be another toned down casual game by Bethesda. It's even worst than Skyrim. Wait for mods, guys. Wait until there's a lot of mods.
> 
> But the Robbaz videos about it are good though.


I know right? I'm about 15 hours in and i'm bored to death already.


----------



## AngelClare

Just started playing. Played for about an hour. Seems really cool. The thing is I'm not a big fan of RPG's and I would never play and replay the game again using different characters. There are other games and other things to do. 

I think RPG fans have gotten used to clumsy mechanics that are decades old. Things change. Mechanics and interfaces change but the core of the game is exploration, progression and adventure.

Like I said, I'm just one hour in. It will probably be months before I finish this game. So far it looks and feels like such an improvement over Fallout 3.


----------



## feels

Okay, like 7 hours in now level 15 or something and I'm finally really getting into it. I was getting scared like how am I gonna kill time??? Gotta waste the next few months on this game


----------



## AngelClare

If I leave the settlers in sanctuary without setting up all the resources and defenses will they die? When should I use power armor? Should I always walk around in it? Where can I find gears?


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> If I leave the settlers in sanctuary without setting up all the resources and defenses will they die? When should I use power armor? Should I always walk around in it? Where can I find gears?


1. No.... It wont grow though. and If you ever get raided (which if you havnt invested any time into your settlement, you probably wont.) they can kill your npcs and destroy the things you built.

2. I never use power armor but i've had a lot of opps where power armor could have helped a lot (bumped up the difficulty to hard, so any major super mutant encampments i've been getting totally wrecked by the suicide bombers and *** holes with rocket launchers). You shouldn't just walk around with it.... Power armor uses those energy cores which as far as i can tell thus far are rather scarce, so once your out of energy your suits kind of boned.

3. Off the top of my head most electronic/mechanical things have gears like typewriters, clocks, fans, etc.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> 1. No.... It wont grow though. and If you ever get raided (which if you havnt invested any time into your settlement, you probably wont.) they can kill your npcs and destroy the things you built.
> 
> 2. I never use power armor but i've had a lot of opps where power armor could have helped a lot (bumped up the difficulty to hard, so any major super mutant encampments i've been getting totally wrecked by the suicide bombers and *** holes with rocket launchers). You shouldn't just walk around with it.... Power armor uses those energy cores which as far as i can tell thus far are rather scarce, so once your out of energy your suits kind of boned.
> 
> 3. Off the top of my head most electronic/mechanical things have gears like typewriters, clocks, fans, etc.


Wow, thanks. I've wasted too much time on that settlement. I'll return later when I have more charisma and can be a local leader. I invested almost nothing in charisma since I found it useless in Fallout 3.

I notice that VATS is far inferior to just aiming myself.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> Wow, thanks. I've wasted too much time on that settlement. I'll return later when I have more charisma and can be a local leader. I invested almost nothing in charisma since I found it useless in Fallout 3.
> 
> I notice that VATS is far inferior to just aiming myself.


Their are a lot of vat perks that stack, and perception is a range modifier so better ranged aiming with higher perception so don't discount vats. I usually just use vats for crit's and crippling fast opponents so i can keep them at a distance and targets with a small windows of vulnerability (mirlurks and scorpions who are only unarmoured on their heads).


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> Their are a lot of vat perks that stack, and perception is a range modifier so better ranged aiming with higher perception so don't discount vats. I usually just use vats for crit's and crippling fast opponents so i can keep them at a distance and targets with a small windows of vulnerability (mirlurks and scorpions who are only unarmoured on their heads).


I'm playing on a PC but using a gamepad. It would be easier with a mouse but in a game where you put in so many hours roaming I prefer pushing the video to a large tv and using a gamepad while reclining.

I've started using VATS more when I'm swarmed by enemies.


----------



## feels

So yeah the beginning is boring but now this game is dope as hell. About 18 hours in. I'm really digging all the gear BOS is giving me but they just seem shady as hell and they're always picking on my boo Hancock.


----------



## MiMiK

ok i might sound stupid but.. where do i get a bobby pin? im trying to open the door in the museum basement and i says i need a bobby pin.


----------



## Kiba

MiMiK said:


> ok i might sound stupid but.. where do i get a bobby pin? im trying to open the door in the museum basement and i says i need a bobby pin.


They are scattered around.... always check all desks and containers. I think when they aren't in a container they look like a green box. I'm pretty sure their are some in the Museum around somewhere.


----------



## Staticnz

Making some decent progression and still none of my settlements have been attacked. 

Gunna pimp da faq out of Sanctuary and see what happens. Been setting up supply lines too!

Fun game. :-D


----------



## AngelClare

Some of these quests require you to eliminate a lot of enemies. Getting to the top of Trinity Tower was a pain. That factory was a pain too. It's really eating up my ammo to do these side quests. 

I'm so glad to have Strong as a companion. 

I think they did a really good job with the companions.


----------



## BefuddledBeyondDiscern

Wow, this is the best Fallout game, no doubt. I've already sinked about 78 hours into it. However, I noticed I always seem to run out of bullets while fighting settlements of raiders, mutants, and even ghouls. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas, it seemed like you could fire off bullets in the air just for fun and still have enough ammunition to complete four or five quests. I don't seem to remember having to actually buy ammo from a vendor.

All complaints and bugs aside, still my favourite Fallout game to date.


----------



## Chasingclouds

I've actually been pretty excited for it! There are a lot of lovable things about the game and I think they did exceptionally well with being able to build your own fortress and defend it, what I'm looking forward to is more DLC... I'm sure they'll think of something that can be added to their masterpiece!


----------



## AngelClare

BefuddledBeyondDiscern said:


> However, I noticed I always seem to run out of bullets while fighting settlements of raiders, mutants, and even ghouls.


Me too. Sometimes toward the end of a settlement I'm running out of ammo. Suddenly everything becomes so much more difficult.

In Fallout 3 I relied more on VATS. In Fallout 3 aiming outside of VATS was more difficult. I think now we're wasting more bullets.

I also agree that so far it's much better in terms of mechanics than Fallout 3. The Fallout 3 story was more engaging and deciding whether or not to destroy a town by detonating an atomic bomb for money was a pretty awesome moral choice to have to make.

One thing, in terms of art, Fallout 4 reminds me of an open world version Bioshock Infinite. The lighting is amazing at times.


----------



## BefuddledBeyondDiscern

AngelClare said:


> Fallout 4 reminds me of an open world version Bioshock Infinite. The lighting is amazing at times.


Oh, you got that right. I read a Fan Theory on Reddit yesterday, regarding all the lighting in every Bethesda Fallout game.

*- Fallout 3 was mostly green because the Lone Wanderer had spent all of his life in a vault, and his eyes were only accustomed to the green/gray walls and overall build of the vault - when he emerged, he was inable to see the actual colour of the post-apocalyptic Washington D.C.

- Fallout: New Vegas was simple. It's obviously a desert and everything will always look orange. It's also reminiscent of old western movies, with cowboys and their dusters. If the Courier ever moved to a different state, he might be able to see the true colour.

- Fallout 4 is obvious. The Sole Survivor was alive in 2077 and knows the true beauty of Boston, thus allowing him to see all colours and brightnesses of any place.*

I think it was a good theory, and it's something I could honestly play the game as and believe.


----------



## AngelClare

BefuddledBeyondDiscern said:


> Oh, you got that right. I read a Fan Theory on Reddit yesterday, regarding all the lighting in every Bethesda Fallout game.
> 
> *- Fallout 3 was mostly green because the Lone Wanderer had spent all of his life in a vault, and his eyes were only accustomed to the green/gray walls and overall build of the vault - when he emerged, he was inable to see the actual colour of the post-apocalyptic Washington D.C.
> 
> - Fallout: New Vegas was simple. It's obviously a desert and everything will always look orange. It's also reminiscent of old western movies, with cowboys and their dusters. If the Courier ever moved to a different state, he might be able to see the true colour.
> 
> - Fallout 4 is obvious. The Sole Survivor was alive in 2077 and knows the true beauty of Boston, thus allowing him to see all colours and brightnesses of any place.*
> 
> I think it was a good theory, and it's something I could honestly play the game as and believe.


Interesting theory. I never got a chance to play New Vegas.

I'm 23 hours in. I met up with some Synths. That was so much fun. The voice acting in this game is really great. I'm having a blast playing this.

I tried to kill a death claw on my journey but failed repeatedly. I gave up. But I love how he grabs you rips you with his claw. It's very dramatic.

This game is going to ruin my life.


----------



## BefuddledBeyondDiscern

AngelClare said:


> Interesting theory. I never got a chance to play New Vegas.
> 
> I'm 23 hours in. I met up with some Synths. That was so much fun. The voice acting in this game is really great. I'm having a blast playing this.
> 
> I tried to kill a death claw on my journey but failed repeatedly. I gave up. But I love how he grabs you rips you with his claw. It's very dramatic.
> 
> This game is going to ruin my life.


I noticed that Deathclaws in this game are harder than FO3 and NV. Probably because of the new attacks they added in. My brother had to restart the first Deathclaw fight in the game at least 5 times, right after you get the power armour.

They're also extremely scarier, I have never felt more terrified when I see a deathclaw in the distance in FO4.


----------



## AngelClare

BefuddledBeyondDiscern said:


> I noticed that Deathclaws in this game are harder than FO3 and NV. Probably because of the new attacks they added in. My brother had to restart the first Deathclaw fight in the game at least 5 times, right after you get the power armour.
> 
> They're also extremely scarier, I have never felt more terrified when I see a deathclaw in the distance in FO4.


They remind me of the Big Daddies in Bioshock. You have to really plan out how you're going to take them down.

This guy uses a large amount of land mines to blow him up.






This game has sucked me in and totally disrupted my daily routines. I love Nick Valentine. And the way you find out what happened to your son is brilliant.


----------



## BefuddledBeyondDiscern

AngelClare said:


> This game has sucked me in and totally disrupted my daily routines. I love Nick Valentine. And the way you find out what happened to your son is brilliant.


Before I started the game for the first time, I actually had "plans" and "things to do", but after playing so much, I realized that all I stuff I was routinely doing weren't actually as important as I thought they were as I was doing them.

Nick Valentine is my favourite companion, even though he can still get himself locked out of terminals. That's really just one of his inconveniences


----------



## Paper Samurai

For the people playing FO4 on PC. There's a mod to give you full dialogue options - in other words when you speak to someone you see all of the phrase rather than a short abbreviation.


----------



## Staticnz

I kind of like the reduced dialogues in Fallout 4. People ramble way too long in some games. They keep it to the point in this game though so I can get back to my adventuring.


----------



## Paper Samurai

Staticnz said:


> I kind of like the reduced dialogues in Fallout 4. People ramble way too long in some games. They keep it to the point in this game though so I can get back to my adventuring.


 That's fair enough. These types of games can be played/experienced in different ways (which is kind of how they were designed) I've always liked the story/immersion part to it.


----------



## fingertips

AngelClare said:


> I think RPG fans have gotten used to clumsy mechanics that are decades old. Things change. Mechanics and interfaces change but the core of the game is exploration, progression and adventure.


honestly, they should just do away with having you need to aim at enemies.


----------



## AngelClare

Staticnz said:


> I kind of like the reduced dialogues in Fallout 4. People ramble way too long in some games. They keep it to the point in this game though so I can get back to my adventuring.


Same but it's because I don't like reading dialog in games. Every exchange you have to read all the options. It's not really natural either. When you have a conversation you don't plan out what you're going to say. You have an idea of what you're going to say and then you express it and elaborate as needed.


----------



## AussiePea

Who has tips for inventory control? How do you guys handle the masses of apparel for example?


----------



## AngelClare

AussiePea said:


> Who has tips for inventory control? How do you guys handle the masses of apparel for example?


I keep apparel that boost perks. I have a suit that makes me more charming +3. I use it in towns and for dialogues. I think it got me laid. I sell stuff that I don't need. Weird stuff I keep around in case I need it later.

So, I just learned you can roast meat. Any meat you have can be roasted which removes the radiation!

Also you can offload stuff to companions. I generally sell stuff then buy ammo with the money.

It's a little satisfying roasting creatures that tried to kill you. Mmm...tasty death claw. You were a real pain but you're going to fill my belly when I'm hungry.


----------



## Kiba

AussiePea said:


> Who has tips for inventory control? How do you guys handle the masses of apparel for example?


I don't pick up apparel, The only apparel things i pick up are leather armor and modded armor that i can brake down for parts/leather. Same with guns, i have stopped picking up *all* pipe weapons and doubles of weapons i already have (unless it has a high value or lots of mods that i can break down for parts). And scrap loot i've stopped picking up most items, i have parts like gears, adhesive, etc. tagged so things that can be broken down for them are tagged, everything else (like metal/wood/plastic scrap items), i've completely stopped picking up. After you play for awhile you start realising what things are worth grabbing and what aren't.


----------



## 3r10n

AussiePea said:


> Who has tips for inventory control? How do you guys handle the masses of apparel for example?


I made a base at sanctuary hill where i store all the stuff i might need later in chests.
While im looting, i dump as much as possible on my companion.

Also.
Things you can build a base with can be stored in your workbench (unlimited amount i think).
So whenver i'm at my base i dump all my junk in my workbench to save space in my inventory.
Just walk up to your workbench and press R


----------



## AussiePea

Thanks for the tips guys, I need to do a major inventory purge.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> I don't pick up apparel, The only apparel things i pick up are leather armor and modded armor that i can brake down for parts/leather. Same with guns, i have stopped picking up *all* pipe weapons and doubles of weapons i already have (unless it has a high value or lots of mods that i can break down for parts). And scrap loot i've stopped picking up most items, i have parts like gears, adhesive, etc. tagged so things that can be broken down for them are tagged, everything else (like metal/wood/plastic scrap items), i've completely stopped picking up. After you play for awhile you start realising what things are worth grabbing and what aren't.


How do you make money? Picking up and selling guns I don't want is how I make my caps. I use junk for crafting.


----------



## AussiePea

Why do raiders keep shooting eachother? I thought they were the same side. I constantly come across a raider v raider battle.


----------



## Scrub-Zero

fingertips said:


> honestly, they should just do away with having you need to aim at enemies.


Like in the original Fallout. Talk the last boss into killing himself 
Or like in Planescape Torment. Silver tongue your way out of fights.

Bethesda will never be that deep with their games though.


----------



## The Crimson King

AussiePea said:


> Who has tips for inventory control? How do you guys handle the masses of apparel for example?


You can build your own settlement in the game and build dressers and similar furniture to store items. I haven't actually built a settlement yet but I've been storing my extra supplies at the gas station where you meet up with dog meat.

I've been using it as a base of operations and there are several places there to store items, as well as a few crafting stations.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> How do you make money? Picking up and selling guns I don't want is how I make my caps. I use junk for crafting.


.......Pretty much just from chems (i've even sold stimpaks, they are way to over abundant) i don't use and my settlement (ie water purifiers are giving me bookoo purified water which i sell).


----------



## Woodoow

I've read conflicted reviews about Fallout 4. Does it have an immerssive atmosphere like FO3 ? 
I know it's supposed to be more optmistic, and less 'black comedy'-esque but apparently the OST and the exploration are still on point ?


----------



## Aribeth

Just finished it... disappointing game overall. Gets worse the more you play. Best parts of the game was when I first got to Diamond City and Goodneighbor. Everything else was meh. Main story was weak. I'd rate it 7.5 / 10.


----------



## Kiba

Woodoow said:


> I've read conflicted reviews about Fallout 4. Does it have an immerssive atmosphere like FO3 ?
> I know it's supposed to be more optmistic, and less 'black comedy'-esque but apparently the OST and the exploration are still on point ?


I don't think Fallout 3 was all that great either... But comparatively all the (Bethesda) Fallouts had their high points and low points.


----------



## Kiba

Aribeth said:


> Just finished it... disappointing game overall. Gets worse the more you play. Best parts of the game was when I first got to Diamond City and Goodneighbor. Everything else was meh. Main story was weak. I'd rate it 7.5 / 10.


That was fast... Did you just bulldoze through the main quest?


----------



## Aribeth

Kiba said:


> That was fast... Did you just bulldoze through the main quest?


No, I have 60-70 hours played. Did most of the side quests too.
My favorite quest so far was Silver Shroud.


----------



## Kiba

Aribeth said:


> No, I have 60-70 hours played. Did most of the side quests too.
> My favorite quest so far was Silver Shroud.


:O. If i'd have known you were going to that many hours into it in such a short span of time, i would have held off on buying it in the first place and awaited the Aribeth review. Probably would have saved myself a few bucks.


----------



## AussiePea

Sigh, and I might get 2 hours a day max to put into it. I need hollidaaaayyyysssss


----------



## Aribeth

Kiba said:


> :O. If i'd have known you were going to that many hours into it in such a short span of time, i would have held off on buying it in the first place and awaited the Aribeth review. Probably would have saved myself a few bucks.


Short span of time? Those hours took me 11 days.


----------



## Kiba

Aribeth said:


> Short span of time? Those hours took me 11 days.


:um


----------



## AussiePea

7 hours a day is a ****tonne lol.


----------



## Estillum

To anyone who was spoiled on fallout 4's ending like I was that spoiler is a complete lie. I just finished the main story and that issue never comes up and it is physically impossible to nuke Boston in the game throughout any story path.


----------



## Kiba

Question: i don't know if this is a bug or some lame feature... But anyone else get killed by the same enemy repeatedly then by the 3rd or 4th reload, that enemy randomly ends up dead? Like literally His corpse with all his gear will be their..... It's occurred multiple times so it wasn't a fluke.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> Question: i don't know if this is a bug or some lame feature... But anyone else get killed by the same enemy repeatedly then by the 3rd or 4th reload, that enemy randomly ends up dead? Like literally His corpse with all his gear will be their..... It's occurred multiple times so it wasn't a fluke.


Strange. I was killed by an enormous crustacean at least 10 times and that never happened although I might have welcomed it. I was also killed many times by and angry super mutant with a mni gun and molotovs. I've been killed countless times by jihadist super mutant suicide bombers. And one death claw killed me so many times I gave up and let him live in peace. I will return later to deal with him, cook him up and have him for dinner.

Are you playing on PC? It sounds like it could be a spawn issue caused by performance problems.


----------



## apx24

I think I'll order this on PS4, I just need to wait to get paid


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> Strange. I was killed by an enormous crustacean at least 10 times and that never happened although I might have welcomed it. I was also killed many times by and angry super mutant with a mni gun and molotovs. I've been killed countless times by jihadist super mutant suicide bombers. And one death claw killed me so many times I gave up and let him live in peace. I will return later to deal with him, cook him up and have him for dinner.
> 
> Are you playing on PC? It sounds like it could be a spawn issue caused by performance problems.


No, i'm playing on PS4.... And it was happening on the Very hard difficulty.


----------



## iloverum

Estillum said:


> Disappointed. It does't feel like a bad game by any means.. It just feels shallow. All the RPG elements are massively simplified or removed, the dialogue trees are massively simplified.. but for what? There are only 2 new additions this game has that are improvements and that's the ability to mix and match armor and the improved character creation.I don't care about building a house, I don't care about power armour. I don't want a voice acted character because that lessens dialogue options and makes attempting to play the game with a totally different character feel weird, which you can't do anyway due to the 2 minute backstory that forces you into a set role and limits your character to a single entity. One of the major reasons I've spent so much time in the fallout series and latter elder scrolls games is that you can play the games dozens of times and each time be someone else and have a different experience. Largely due two things: One, the fact that your characters backstory was nonexistent so you could make up your own, or even in fallout 3's case you could be whoever you wanted to be in that backstory. And two your could play the entire game as that character though your actions and dialogue. But in fallout 4 no matter what you do you are ostensibly the same person acting differently in different scenarios. You will always will have been married to some soldier **** and and have had a child with that soldier ****, and that is the main crux of the story. I don't ****ing care about my husband or my son, I don't care that he died and I don't care to look for Shaun. I sold the ****ing wedding rings as the very first shop. I want to have my own character but instead I'm latched to a what feels like a premade character. In a rpg in which you can control all of your character's beliefs and actions there should not feel like there are actions that are "out of character". My character would want to find her baby, and would care about her husband, but I do not, and any action veering away from that path feels like something the character would not do. Also due to the decision to have the character voice acted the dialogue option are severally limited and again make it feel like you are choosing paths for someone else's character. And that's not even mentioning the fact that skills are now gone and your S.P.E.C.I.A.L can be augmented every level, so If I say want my character to be a meat-head, or a sneak-thief, or a worm-tongue, I'd be **** out of ****ing luck. So in short, The RPG aspect of the RPG is ****ing bust.
> 
> There is still the exploration aspect, the other thing that is so absorbing and great about the other games, but so far there doesn't feel like there is anything worth finding. It feels like the wasteland of fallout 3 with less thought put into it, and as I wander yet another ruined factory, and yet another raider infested shanty, and turn onto yet another super mutant infested avenue, I can't help but feel my interest waning. I want to put more time into it, I want to like it, but so far all this game is making me want to do is boot up it's predecessors.
> 
> Edit: There are other things worth mentioning, like muddy textures, plastic looking people( though it is only some of them and replicants are part of the story so maybe it's deliberate but it still looks like **** ), some extremely weak voice acting here and there, as well as some dialogue bugs that have people facing walls and walking away while talking.. But none of that would been a deal breaker if the game was fundamentally a fun game, which for me it hasn't been.


Agree on everything, i'm upto the Valentine MQ bit and got the castle and done BOS stuff etc etc and.....bored.

It maybe that i'm burnt out on this type of icon chasing map vacuuming game, and I'm not naive as i know its a game sequel in the COD era, but for all intents and purposes this is a copy n paste of Fallout 3 something I played 7 years ago, with the same graphics 7 years later, less interesting setting, no Hollywood actors, features cut or simplified, and the base building obviously put in to appeal to the big playerbase of survival games on steam.

People online are saying NV is better and I agree, if I hadn't played it back in 2010 i'd go play it instead of this tbh.


----------



## AngelClare

I agree with this comparison of Fallout 3 vs 4. Graphically, the style is much better but the lighting is amazing. I'm not sure I've seen an open world game with such great lighting and shadows. The way the lighting changes as the weather changes, especially during the radiation storms is impressive.

Combat outside of VATS in Fallout 3 was broken. Now you can actually play without VATS. Fallout 3 attempted to be an action RPG but the action part was terrible. They fixed it but I think that upset hardcore RPG fans.

In Fallout 3 you were a man roaming alone doing various quests. In Fallout 4 you feel like you're part of the world. When you attack the fort with the Minuteman you feel like you're working together. When you join the Brotherhood of steel you feel like you're part of their mission. And as you build settlements you feel like you're transforming the world, taking it back from raiders and super mutants. Yet building settlements helps provide you with resources and wealth.

Finally, the weapon upgrade system is light years better than Fallout 3. In Fallout 3 you had to carry around multiple versions of the same weapon to keep repairing. In Fallout 4 weapons don't absurdly degrade for no reason. You upgrade weapons through a very extensive customization system. You can make weapons not only more powerful but more suited to your style of play.


----------



## fingertips

did he just talk about the dialogue and stats being streamlined without mentioning the loss of skill/perk/SPECIAL checks in dialogue? that seems like a pretty big thing to overlook!!


----------



## AngelClare

fingertips said:


> did he just talk about the dialogue and stats being streamlined without mentioning the loss of skill/perk/SPECIAL checks in dialogue? that seems like a pretty big thing to overlook!!


You still need charisma to access certain dialog options. And the lady killer perk will give you an advantage with women.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> You still need charisma to access certain dialog options. And the lady killer perk will give you an advantage with women.


Yeah but charisma is go longer a fixed quantity. Now, if you don't like your dialogue choices you can just not do the quest and come back later when you leveled it up, vs. when attribs were pretty much stuck as they were, forcing you to live with your character creation choices and roleplay as such. and yeah.... Skills are completely gone and since perks are the new leveling up mechanics, it kind of ruined what made perks special in the first place. I also hate how abundant everything is. Resources are no longer scarce quantitys. I no longer have to prioritize whether to try to pick a lock vs just skipping it because im lacking bobby pins (i have over 1000 on me.....) or worry whether i should even bother jumping into a gun fight for some loot or run away due to having 2 or 3 stimpacks (again.... i think my character has like 300+).
Fallout 4 thus far for me has been a "how to take any and all roleplaying and immersion factors out of a roleplaying game".


----------



## fingertips

AngelClare said:


> You still need charisma to access certain dialog options. And the lady killer perk will give you an advantage with women.


sure, but nobody will notice if my character is strong or intelligent or skilled with guns or is good at fixing things. the things that make me feel like my character is... well, SPECIAL.

i think there are lots of RPG mechanics that don't quite work in a more actiony game, but skill checks work and are one of the best things about the series.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> Yeah but charisma is go longer a fixed quantity. Now, if you don't like your dialogue choices you can just not do the quest and come back later when you leveled it up, vs. when attribs were pretty much stuck as they were, forcing you to live with your character creation choices and roleplay as such. and yeah.... Skills are completely gone and since perks are the new leveling up mechanics, it kind of ruined what made perks special in the first place. I also hate how abundant everything is. Resources are no longer scarce quantitys. I no longer have to prioritize whether to try to pick a lock vs just skipping it because im lacking bobby pins (i have over 1000 on me.....) or worry whether i should even bother jumping into a gun fight for some loot or run away due to having 2 or 3 stimpacks (again.... i think my character has like 300+).
> Fallout 4 thus far for me has been a "how to take any and all roleplaying and immersion factors out of a roleplaying game".


My perspective is different since I'm not really a fan of RPGs. The first RPG I played was Mass Effect. I loved it. It was eye opening. Then I bought Fallout 3 in 2008. I got stuck somewhere in the early game and put the game down until 2015. I just finished it this Summer. I loved it (after a love-hate beginning).

But I played Fallout 3 on normal and I'm playing Fallout 4 on normal. To me, 4 is harder than 3 and I'm an RPG noob. Maybe Fallout 3 higher difficulty settings were crushing. I don't know.

A death claw in a certain house killed me at least 15 times.

Maybe they should have done more to make it challenging for very experienced players.


----------



## Scrub-Zero

AngelClare said:


> Combat outside of VATS in Fallout 3 was broken. Now you can actually play without VATS. Fallout 3 attempted to be an action RPG but the action part was terrible. They fixed it but I think that upset hardcore RPG fans.


Mods easily fixed that part. Like the iron sight and Fallout wanderers edition mod. I've played fallout 3 many times without using vats at all.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> My perspective is different since I'm not really a fan of RPGs. The first RPG I played was Mass Effect. I loved it. It was eye opening. Then I bought Fallout 3 in 2008. I got stuck somewhere in the early game and put the game down until 2015. I just finished it this Summer. I loved it (after a love-hate beginning).
> 
> But I played Fallout 3 on normal and I'm playing Fallout 4 on normal. To me, 4 is harder than 3 and I'm an RPG noob. Maybe Fallout 3 higher difficulty settings were crushing. I don't know.
> 
> A death claw in a certain house killed me at least 15 times.
> 
> Maybe they should have done more to make it challenging for very experienced players.


Fallout 4 is harder..... That has nothing to do with anything i've been saying though.


----------



## Paper Samurai

Scrub-Zero said:


> Mods easily fixed that part. Like the iron sight and Fallout wanderers edition mod. I've played fallout 3 many times without using vats at all.


 Bethesda... Bethesda never changes. Every game of theirs always needs mods. I modded the hell out of FO3 myself.

I'm going to wait 4-5 months till there's enough mods to fix all these new 'streamlined tweaks' Bethesda have put in.


----------



## AngelClare

There is an interesting discussion on reddit about SPECIAL/SKILLS/Persk in FO4 vs FO3.

Here is a response to the replayability issue



> Two counter points:
> 
> There are 275 perk ranks in total, meaning you'd have to hit level ~300 to get all the perks. Given that there are also 70 perks available, even sinking a single perk point into each is going to take breaking level ~100 (28 starting stat points + 35 levels to get to 9 on each SPECIAL + all bobbleheads + 70 points for all perks) or so without exploiting glitches.
> It gets harder to level the more things you do, both because it takes more XP and because you lose the XP bonuses from completing the major missions
> 
> So while, yes, it's hypothetically possible to get everything, the reality is that you'd be much better off just playing it again a couple times and seeing how different the game is doing different things.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/3t3xtk


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> There is an interesting discussion on reddit about SPECIAL/SKILLS/Persk in FO4 vs FO3.
> 
> Here is a response to the replayability issue
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/3t3xtk


Fallout 2 had 70 perks available (Most of which were way cooler anyway).... so why was it necessary to dump skills all together in Fallout 4?


----------



## Scrub-Zero

Paper Samurai said:


> Bethesda... Bethesda never changes. Every game of theirs always needs mods. I modded the hell out of FO3 myself.
> 
> I'm going to wait 4-5 months till there's enough mods to fix all these new 'streamlined tweaks' Bethesda have put in.


I'm waiting to play it too. There's no way in hell i'll go through their vanilla crap without fixing a lot of the bad with mods. I don't even care if i play the game a year from now. There's a ton of games to play until then anyhow.

And Fallout 3 has amazing mods. You just add Martigen monster mod+wander's edition and you basically have a brand new(very hard) game. Martigen's ghouls spawn at night + increase spawn was so damn fun and scary too with a darker night mod.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> Fallout 2 had 70 perks available (Most of which were way cooler anyway).... so why was it necessary to dump skills all together in Fallout 4?


They combined perks and skills. These are just ways to customize your character's abilities. Skills lock you down but now you have the freedom to create a more diverse character.

Also there is no level cap. You can keep building and leveling the wasteland forever.

This guy has developed the ability to pacify a deathclaw and use him like a companion. Of course he use console commands to get to level 200 but it's awesome that you can do that.


----------



## AngelClare

If you give Strong Grognack's axe or a similar powerful melee weapon he becomes a beast of a companion.






I think in my next playthrough I'll go for a sneaky stealth character. Also I didn't know there were stealth melee kill animation like snapping necks.


----------



## Brawk Shady

What's the objective of Fallout? (Sorry for being a noob)


----------



## Staticnz

So far I have just installed three plugins.

#1 - unlimited power cores for power armor. Because I didn't like this restriction. I want to use power armor now and then, but not have to constantly look at the power. So this is nice.

#2. Craftable ammo - a great mod that lets you craft ammo and it fits with the game, as it requires resources just like everything else.

#3. Expanded settlements - adds new items and removes the objects limit.

That's all I need for now. I'm just leaving the visuals as-is for now.


----------



## AussiePea

I like the sound of craftable ammo, being in short supply and needing to be careful with my weapon use adds no fun to the game.


----------



## DistraughtOwl

I was considering getting into Fallout but what I've seen so far just doesn't interest me. I haven't heard great things about it either. How are you guys enjoying it?


----------



## AngelClare

Brawk Shady said:


> What's the objective of Fallout? (Sorry for being a noob)


Avoiding any spoilers, in both Fallout 3 and 4 you are looking for someone. It's like a mystery. You follow a trail. You go out into a world you don't understand and you learn more about what has happened as you go.

It's like that saying, "have you been living in a cave?" In Fallout you literally have been living in a sort of cave and have no idea what has happened with the outside world. You're forced to leave your cave to find someone.

But you won't reach your objective if you don't survive. You have to find "loot" or stuff that improves your chances of survival. You find weapons, foods, drugs, armor etc. You make friends and join groups and make choices. As you do this you become stronger and better able to deal with an extremely hostile world where nearly everything and everyone wants to kill you.

It's a Role Playing Game with strong FPS game elements.


----------



## AngelClare

AussiePea said:


> I like the sound of craftable ammo, being in short supply and needing to be careful with my weapon use adds no fun to the game.


That's a gripe I have about a lot of games. You can't use the weapons you want because of limited ammo. You get some cool powerful gun and you want to use it but because you can't foresee the future you don't know if you'll need it for some boss fight. So, you save it. Then the game ends and you never used it.

Some people like scrounging for ammo. I hate dying because I ran out of ammo.

In Fallout 4, it's only the flamer, mini gun and missile launcher where the ammo is scarce. I left out some but ammo in general is plentiful.


----------



## feels

I thought companions couldn't die, but my ghoul boyfriend is very much dead. RIP Hancock. 

Also, the railway rifle is the ****ing greatest. The train sounds make me so happy.


----------



## AngelClare

I have to admit one valid criticism of Fallout 4 is the lack of options to be evil. It's a serious departure from other Fallout games. I haven't noticed it much since I always play the good guy anyway. I couldn't bring myself to kill everyone in Megaton or get involved in the slave trade in Fallout 3. But it was really cool that the option was there. It's almost totally absent in Fallout 4. 

I suspect that this was a strategic decision. In an era with mass shooters I don't think Bethesda wanted to risk the possibility of some kid going to school and shooting his classmates being blamed on doing similar things in a Fallout game. 

It's disappointing that they went in that direction but I can't blame them. Whenever people bring up video game violence I always point out that in most video games you're defending yourself from bad guys. Or you're killing robots or zombies. I argue that you don't kill innocent people in video games. But in Fallout 3 you could kill everyone. You could live out your sociopathic fantasies. I suspect this is the debate they had at Bethesda.

One positive result of this choice is that your character feels more consistent. It never made much sense in Fallout 3 that your dad was such a good guy and you were a good guy in Vault only to emerge as a sociopath. It feels a lot like Mass Effect, one of my favorite games, where you're a good guy who has some moral leeway but not total freedom to break character.

So far, Fallout 4 is turning out to be one of my all time favorite games. I was starting to think I was losing interest in gaming--I didn't finish GTA V and I still haven't finished MGS 5 those are two of my favorite series. But Fallout 4 has me up all night. I went to work one day with no sleep. I've put in 65 hours, which is insane for me. It's really embarrassing that I'm spending so much time playing one game. But I'm lovign it. It's weird how you can love a game but others hate it or think it's meh. But everyone is different.


----------



## Kiba

**** companions.... I've switched out companions and i want dog meat back. But hes gone completely awol. I've checked every single settlement and hes gone.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> **** companions.... I've switched out companions and i want dog meat back. But hes gone completely awol. I've checked every single settlement and hes gone.


Have you tried putting missing dog posters all over the Wasteland?

I lost him too.


----------



## AngelClare

You can hack KL-E-O and use her like a companion. She can still function as a vendor too if you bring her back to Good Neighbor.






Tip: put your companions in your power armor. They don't use up fusion cores. Now your companions are stronger and your power armor is always available for use.

Also let your companions carry your heavy weapons. So now your mini gun, flamer and missile launchers are always with you.


----------



## feels




----------



## TobeyJuarez

Brawk Shady said:


> What's the objective of Fallout? (Sorry for being a noob)


To **** *****es and get bottle caps ******!!


----------



## Orbiter

I'm playing Fallout New Vegas right now and it's the first Fallout game I've ever played.
Can't believe I didn't do it before, it's so amazing.
A cousin of mine has got Fallout 4 and it's pretty nice. Love the radio songs.


----------



## lonerroom

nooneknowsmyname said:


> YES YES YES
> YESSSSSSSS


Fallout 4 is amazing, time has flown really fast since the release night, it cheers me up and distracts me from my lack of friendship. If only it was possible to find a "companion" in real life like in Fallout, I've done major favors for people and they never offered to become my companion


----------



## AngelClare

lonerroom said:


> If only it was possible to find a "companion" in real life like in Fallout, I've done major favors for people and they never offered to become my companion


Just like in the game you just have to find an outfit that boosts your charm +3


----------



## lonerroom

AngelClare said:


> Just like in the game you just have to find an outfit that boosts your charm +3


Its fun to make your own styles of clothes! One thing they should do in downloadable content for Fallout 4 is add a make your own outfit with a special little program similar to creation kit, or NPC editor. They also need to make an NPC editor as well! There are too many NPC's who look identical to each other, I want to tweak their appearances and make them look unique. Darla and Magnolia for example, look sort of similar, except Darla was 16 years old and Magnolia is probably in her late 30's or early 40's but they have similar faces and hair and eye color. Fallout 4 is so amazing but I want to edit all the NPC's to make the game more amazing! I did that in Skyrim and it made the game 10 times more amazing.


----------



## AngelClare

lonerroom said:


> Its fun to make your own styles of clothes! One thing they should do in downloadable content for Fallout 4 is add a make your own outfit with a special little program similar to creation kit, or NPC editor. They also need to make an NPC editor as well! There are too many NPC's who look identical to each other, I want to tweak their appearances and make them look unique. Darla and Magnolia for example, look sort of similar, except Darla was 16 years old and Magnolia is probably in her late 30's or early 40's but they have similar faces and hair and eye color. Fallout 4 is so amazing but I want to edit all the NPC's to make the game more amazing! I did that in Skyrim and it made the game 10 times more amazing.


It seems I'm officially addicted to this game. There is so much to mess around with. I'm taking forever to complete the main quest because I get distracted by things like finding and collecting power armor.

It's just so exciting when you find a suit of power armor lying around. My next project in this world is to build cool power armor storage like this....


----------



## lonerroom

AngelClare said:


> It seems I'm officially addicted to this game. There is so much to mess around with. I'm taking forever to complete the main quest because I get distracted by things like finding and collecting power armor.
> 
> It's just so exciting when you find a suit of power armor lying around. My next project in this world is to build cool power armor storage like this....


I am also addicted to Fallout 4, its so much fun, but I have OCD and have restarted the game several times because I can't decide if I like being a boy or girl better. I settled with playing as the husband and already beat the game and am now looking for every quest in the Commonwealth. Piper is now his girlfriend and I think Codsworth is mad at him


----------



## visualkeirockstar

I don't get why so many people like this game.


----------



## apx24

I'm new to the Fallout series, so I've really been struggling with this game lol. The amount of times I've died and ragequitted.


----------



## Orbiter

lonerroom said:


> Fallout 4 is amazing, time has flown really fast since the release night, it cheers me up and distracts me from my lack of friendship. If only it was possible to find a "companion" in real life like in Fallout, I've done major favors for people and they never offered to become my companion


I'd like a companion like Ed-E from New Vegas.
That little robot is so damn awesome.


----------



## Orbiter

apx24 said:


> I'm new to the Fallout series, so I've really been struggling with this game lol. The amount of times I've died and ragequitted.


Yeah, it's pretty hard when you play it first.
I felt the same with Fallout New Vegas, but when you keep leveling, it's getting easier, better and more fun.


----------



## Orbiter

lonerroom said:


> I am also addicted to Fallout 4, its so much fun, but I have OCD and have restarted the game several times because I can't decide if I like being a boy or girl better. I settled with playing as the husband and already beat the game and am now looking for every quest in the Commonwealth. Piper is now his girlfriend and I think Codsworth is mad at him


Playing New Vegas right now, as a good guy (first fallout game for me, just started a few weeks ago haha).
Next save I will play as a bad guy siding with the most cruel factions (like the legion).
The third time I will play through, I will be the ultimate villain, just killing every living being on the map. lol


----------



## AngelClare

apx24 said:


> I'm new to the Fallout series, so I've really been struggling with this game lol. The amount of times I've died and ragequitted.


Yet hardcore RPG gamers still complain that they "dumbed it down." The truth is RPGs are very tough on new players.

I used to hate RPGs. Then I played Mass Effect and fell in love. After that, I bought Fallout 3 and got stuck somewhere. I didn't understand that my character level was just not high enough to deal with certain super mutants. There are areas that you can only manage once you reach a certain level. They don't tell you that. They expect RPG players to understand this.

But games like Mass Effect and Fallout 3+ have mixed RPG genre with the FPS genre.

If you're struggling go to YouTube or ask questions. I'm a terrible RPG-type game player but I've learned a few strategies. The easiest way to play is to focus on making your character as resistant to damage and as deadly as possible. The early part of the game is often the toughest. As your character levels up there is a point where he dominates the world. If a quest is too hard it usually means that you're not ready for it.

In Fallout games be careful when exploring because at times you'll run into enemies you're not ready to deal with. Stick to quests your assigned until your character gets a little stronger.


----------



## Staticnz

Something I've noticed about fallout 4 that I don't quite understand is how they've managed to create a world map that is not the largest world map ever in a game, but which feels like the biggest map ever, the more you explore it, because you just don't stop discovering stuff. Somehow they warped time and space. Been playing for ages and still not at diamond city cos I get lost exploring.

But the map isn't that big PHYSICALLY. How did they do this?

With witcher 3 the map seemed massive physically but somewhat lifeless and barren gameplay wise. Fallout 4 feels a lot more new whenever you go somewhere.

Very impressed. This games beats witcher 3 in almost every area, and I did like that game.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> Yet hardcore RPG gamers still complain that they "dumbed it down." The truth is RPGs are very tough on new players.


 you have absolutely no grasp of context. dumbing down=/=difficulty. Most people who are complaining about this have some grasp of Fallouts roots in GURPS, which was basically wiped clean, eliminating a lot of roleplaying elements that made Fallout special. I doubt level scaling was ever a root cause of any of the turmoil.....


----------



## Staticnz

Fallout 2 was extremely brutal. Constantly scrounging just to barely survive. It was dog eat dog. In the early stages of the game you had barely any ammo and could barely defeat enemies. And this lasted for a long time. And when you got the car and could never find any fuel. Constantly ambushed while travelling.

I think all the other fallouts are pretty easy, including fallout 1, which was hard at times but overall much easier than fallout 2, which had a real survival vibe.

Fallout 4 is also hard at times but you have way more ammo and resources than in fallout 2.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> you have absolutely no grasp of context. dumbing down=/=difficulty. Most people who are complaining about this have some grasp of Fallouts roots in GURPS, which was basically wiped clean, eliminating a lot of roleplaying elements that made Fallout special. I doubt level scaling was ever a root cause of any of the turmoil.....


Ironic since you miss the context of my response to someone new to the Fallout series where I relate my difficulties when I was new to the Fallout series in Fallout 3.

My opinion is that the "role playing elements" people complain about or mostly antiquated poorly designed play mechanics. They existed in the past because of technological limitations.

Remember all the people who complained about the iPhone virtual keyboards at first? Where are they now? People sometimes get accustomed to the old things they're used to and have difficulty appreciating the advantages of newer methods.

I feel more immersed in Fallout 4 than any other game. I am a part of the wasteland. That's my settlement. I built it. This is my gun. I found it then customized it to my liking. This is my power armor collection. I found the frames and scrounged for the pieces and customized and painted them to my liking.

What is a Role Playing Game? Bethesda is doing a great job challenging that definition and advancing the genre.

Ultimately, everyone has different tastes. I can sympathize how you feel about your genre. I used to enjoy text based adventure games like Space Quest. I loved WWII flight combat games like Battle of Britain. They don't make those games anymore. They're just not popular enough.

Ultimately, we like the games we like. There's no point arguing about it.

I'm having a blast.


----------



## RawrJessiRawr

add me for fallout 4 videos and screenshots xD I admin a page on fb so take lots, im suppose to stream but heck hearing my own voice I rather not. lol im Sound0fSuperman on xbox if anyone has it


----------



## AngelClare

Staticnz said:


> Fallout 2 was extremely brutal. Constantly scrounging just to barely survive. It was dog eat dog. In the early stages of the game you had barely any ammo and could barely defeat enemies. And this lasted for a long time. And when you got the car and could never find any fuel. Constantly ambushed while travelling.
> 
> I think all the other fallouts are pretty easy, including fallout 1, which was hard at times but overall much easier than fallout 2, which had a real survival vibe.
> 
> Fallout 4 is also hard at times but you have way more ammo and resources than in fallout 2.


I only really finished Fallout 3 this year after putting it down way back in 2008. After being burned by the combat mechanics of Stick of Truth I was down on RPGs. But now I want to try and play more.

I may try Fallout 2 after I play New Vegas and The Witcher 3. I still haven't played Mass Effect 3 after finishing 1 and 2.


----------



## fingertips

AngelClare said:


> My opinion is that the "role playing elements" people complain about or mostly antiquated poorly designed play mechanics. They existed in the past because of technological limitations.


i think the production values of recent bethesda games impose limitations on their mechanical depth.

at any rate, i think the best approach would have been to make things more intuitive and less clunky somehow without hollowing out what was there.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> My opinion is that the "role playing elements" people complain about or mostly antiquated poorly designed play mechanics. They existed in the past because of technological limitations.


So complexity is antiquated?.... It has nothing to do with the blatant dumbing down to open up to the more casual gaming market (for $$$) or the constraints of optimizing for console gamers vs pc gamers. It's all just because "tech limitations" that were holding developers back from dumbing things down.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> So complexity is antiquated?.... It has nothing to do with the blatant dumbing down to open up to the more casual gaming market (for $$$) or the constraints of optimizing for console gamers vs pc gamers. It's all just because "tech limitations" that were holding developers back from dumbing things down.


1. In the past it was impossible to voice all the dialogue so it had to written text. You read the text of the character then you read the full text of all your responses. Then you selected what you want to say. The only reason this ever existed was due to technological limitations.

People complain that the full text of your responses were removed. They consider this dumbing things down. But it's just better that way. When you have a conversation with someone you don't think through every word you're going to say. You have the gist of your response in mind and then you elaborate as you speak.

2. In the past it was impossible to have FPS like combat in an RPG. There were no FPS games. But having a first person experience in an RPG is great for "role playing." You see the world through the eyes of the role you are playing. In Fallout your character has guns. So improving the gun combat mechanics to be more true to life is in keeping with what "role playing" was really intended to be instead of antiquated mechanics from the limitations of the past.

3. A convoluted skill system adds nothing to the actual game. Simplifying it is not the same as dumbing it down. And you still end up having to choose what path you want to focus on. There is very little practical difference between the old and new system.

Moreover, asking people to choose their skills before they start the game and limiting them severely based on those choices is not good game design.

4. Role playing was originally intended to be a dynamic story where the user can helps in creating the story. You create you own adventure instead of reading a scripted adventure.

I'm exploring the Common Wealth when I encounter a deathclaw. I run away from him and hide in a small house. I notice four protectrons in the house. I quicky hack the computer and activate the protectrons. They attack the deathclaw and kill him without me ever firing a single shot. That's my own adventure it's not scripted. That kind of choice is much more real than some artificial quest choice options.

5. We need to stop blaming game companies for trying to sell more games. In the end we all benefit when they sell more games. Maybe the game is not focused on your niche group but the overall game has a bigger budget and more assets. Also, more money in the industry means more innovation and research.

PC gamers complain about console gaming's affect but I remember a time when there were only 3 or 4 AAA PC games a year. All you had were great releases from Valve, Id, Blizzard and a handful of companies. Some of these "consolized" games wouldn't even exist or would have far smaller budgets without the console market.

This article makes the same point I'm making...

Fallout 4 is a strong reminder that most RPGs lack actual role-playing


----------



## Woodoow

Kiba said:


> I don't think Fallout 3 was all that great either... But comparatively all the (Bethesda) Fallouts had their high points and low points.


Never played 1,2 or BoS.

But listening to 40s jazz while shooting ghouls in the subway was quite the experince.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> 1. *It's not full text responses that are the issue. Its the losing the expansiveness that full text supported. You used to be able to have conversations about all kinds of things with npcs, and the more they liked you the more they would reveal. Now it's fleshed out with voice dialogue... But with very binary options that are pretty much the same with every npc. And charisma too, is pretty useless; high charisma choices are almost the same as if you didn't have them... They don''t matter, at best they save you from having one lesser errand between a quest line and give you xp. And that's all those choices depend on; charisma. you used to have modifiers from fame/infamy and not just generalized but relationship factors with towns/individuals and factions played into it. **** in a lot of games you could basically play through the entire game with a charisma build with little to no actual combat*
> 
> 2. *They haven't improved combat mechanics comparatively from fallout 3 to Fallout 4.
> *
> 3.*It adds depth to character creation and allows players to optimize play styles. None of the "choices" with the perk system really matter, gameplay doesn't really change. I still can go melee and destroy just about anything with drugs and a good melee weapons with a stealth sniper character who chose no melee modifiers and If i "optimized" Melee same would be true for the reverse.... Before i needed aptitude with weapons/skills/level to even use a sub class of weapons effectively/if at all-> leveling choices did matter for player style. I couldn't be a jack of all trades from the get-go, leveling choices mattered*
> 
> Moreover, asking people to choose their skills before they start the game and limiting them severely based on those choices is not good game design.
> *
> Do you just make up irrelevant points as you go?*
> 
> 4. .*...When you get back from your fun little self scripted adventure, your back to your binary un-failable questlines that are about as linear as most other games. I can't turncoat/backstab in the middle of a quest or find innovative ways to solve questlines. I can't kill whoever i want if i felt like going nutter. It shows me exactly where to go what to do (with the occassional "optional" thing that really doesn't matter).
> *
> 
> 5. *The gaming markets big enough where they can specialize a game/cater to specific audience, instead of trying to appease everyone and hollowing depth they could of expounded on.*


Bolded


----------



## fingertips

AngelClare said:


> When you have a conversation with someone you don't think through every word you're going to say. You have the gist of your response in mind and then you elaborate as you speak.


but you're not having a real conversation. you're playing a game. real conversations don't limit you to a handful of choices. in real conversations, you're able to inform someone that you're good at something (which apparently you can't do in fallout 4)



AngelClare said:


> Moreover, asking people to choose their skills before they start the game and limiting them severely based on those choices is not good game design.


why is it bad to assume that your character has skills and a history?



AngelClare said:


> 2. In the past it was impossible to have FPS like combat in an RPG. There were no FPS games. But having a first person experience in an RPG is great for "role playing." You see the world through the eyes of the role you are playing.


but FPSes were a thing before fallout was a thing. fallout could have been an FPS with light RPG mechanics from the start.



AngelClare said:


> I'm exploring the Common Wealth when I encounter a deathclaw. I run away from him and hide in a small house. I notice four protectrons in the house. I quicky hack the computer and activate the protectrons. They attack the deathclaw and kill him without me ever firing a single shot. That's my own adventure it's not scripted. That kind of choice is much more real than some artificial quest choice options.


but you can have both in the same game?



AngelClare said:


> Maybe the game is not focused on your niche group but the overall game has a bigger budget and more assets.


is this a good thing? especially since bethesda games are heavily reliant upon reuse of assets regardless.


----------



## Aribeth

just stop arguing with these guys who defend fallout 4. they're the kind of people who like mario, zelda and sonic games. that should tell you all you need to know about their game knowledge


----------



## Staticnz

Aribeth said:


> just stop arguing with these guys who defend fallout 4. they're the kind of people who like mario, zelda and sonic games. that should tell you all you need to know about their game knowledge


Why is gaming a competition to be the most hardcore or knowledgable. Can't someone just enjoy a game?

Gamers can be so finicky.


----------



## fingertips

Aribeth said:


> just stop arguing with these guys who defend fallout 4. they're the kind of people who like mario, zelda and sonic games. that should tell you all you need to know about their game knowledge


that isn't fair at all.


----------



## iloverum

Fallout 4 = garbage collector simulator with tacked on base building to cover up the crap story and removed stuff centred around a really quite shoddy FPS.

/thread


----------



## Staticnz

Man, you guys are such negative nancies.


----------



## mca90guitar

SO what exactly is this game like? is it kinda like GTA5 were you can just walk around and get taskes to do or is it like a WOW type game?

Trying to decide if I want to buy it but not sure what its like.


----------



## Charmeleon

I like it so far. Haven't really touched the main quest. Just randomly exploring doing side quests and stuff.



Staticnz said:


> Fallout 2 was extremely brutal. Constantly scrounging just to barely survive. It was dog eat dog. In the early stages of the game you had barely any ammo and could barely defeat enemies. And this lasted for a long time. And when you got the car and could never find any fuel. Constantly ambushed while travelling.
> 
> I think all the other fallouts are pretty easy, including fallout 1, which was hard at times but overall much easier than fallout 2, which had a real survival vibe.


I really seriously need to play Fallout 1 & 2 lol


----------



## AngelClare

Aribeth said:


> just stop arguing with these guys who defend fallout 4. they're the kind of people who like mario, zelda and sonic games. that should tell you all you need to know about their game knowledge


People who live in World of Warcraft houses shouldn't throw stones 

People like the games they like. Obviously some people like walls of dialogue text, grinding for experience, convoluted skill trees and turn-based combat. These mechanics have been around for decades. Just as some people insist that vinyl records sound better than CDs, some people prefer those mechanics.

But regardless of your gaming preferences it's pretentious to imagine that your preferences are somehow more sophisticated.


----------



## AngelClare

mca90guitar said:


> SO what exactly is this game like? is it kinda like GTA5 were you can just walk around and get taskes to do or is it like a WOW type game?
> 
> Trying to decide if I want to buy it but not sure what its like.


It's an Action RPG like Mass Effect. But it's more open world than Mass Effect and it's not squad based like Mass Effect.

What I do when I'm not sure about a game is I watch some walkthroughs on YouTube.






But it is like the GTA and Far Cry series in the sense that it's open world with missions. Imagine Far Cry but in a sci-fi setting with a mix of Borderlands looting in world where you're free to kill almost anyone.


----------



## mca90guitar

AngelClare said:


> It's an Action RPG like Mass Effect. But it's more open world than Mass Effect and it's not squad based like Mass Effect.
> 
> What I do when I'm not sure about a game is I watch some walkthroughs on YouTube.


So is it just a online game you play with other people?

Not a big gamer so IDK, usually just play battle field and COD


----------



## Aribeth

AngelClare said:


> But regardless of your gaming preferences it's pretentious to imagine that your preferences are somehow more sophisticated.


Not really, think of an extreme example: 12 year old kids playing COD on xbox. Those guys should never have the right to an opinion on video games.


----------



## cnate

Haha I wish I had 400 bucks to drop on a ps4 that games looks like I could replace life with it!


----------



## Umpalumpa

Aribeth said:


> Not really, think of an extreme example: 12 year old kids playing COD on xbox. Those guys should never have the right to an opinion on video games.


What are your favorite video games?


----------



## AngelClare

mca90guitar said:


> So is it just a online game you play with other people?
> 
> Not a big gamer so IDK, usually just play battle field and COD


It has no multiplayer. It's a single player game. You have companion NPC characters you can choose to accompany you on your quests.


----------



## Aribeth

Umpalumpa said:


> What are your favorite video games?


Too lazy to think about it, I have many. I'll just name two: Half-Life and System Shock 2.


----------



## Estillum

AngelClare said:


> People like the games they like. Obviously some people like walls of dialogue text, grinding for experience, convoluted skill trees and turn-based combat. These mechanics have been around for decades. Just as some people insist that vinyl records sound better than CDs, some people prefer those mechanics.


You've already gone on record saying that you don't play RPGs, so why do you feel the need to constantly insult RPG mechanics and try to prove your point by calling them outdated? you can't say other peoples points are wrong when you have no perspective about what they are talking about. If this game suits you as is that is all fine and well, but if you are going to argue that nothing is wrong with it objectively than you have to understand where the people opposing your opinion are coming from. I don't like the type of game fallout 4 is, I didn't want a borderlands like shooter with vague nebulous RPG elements I wanted an RPG, seeing as that's why I became a fan of the series in the first place. But that's not what I got. That doesn't mean it's a bad game, but a series that has been an RPG staple suddenly becoming an FPS type thing is bound to piss long time fans off. Think if for years you bought pastries from a bakery, you just kept coming back because their pastries where just that ****ing good. But then one day it just up and turned into a sushi bar. Hey, that's great for the people who like it, but I don't ****ing like sushi I want goddamn pastries.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> People who live in World of Warcraft houses shouldn't throw stones
> 
> People like the games they like. Obviously some people like walls of dialogue text, grinding for experience, convoluted skill trees and turn-based combat. These mechanics have been around for decades. Just as some people insist that vinyl records sound better than CDs, some people prefer those mechanics.
> 
> But regardless of your gaming preferences it's pretentious to imagine that your preferences are somehow more sophisticated.


I don't need walls of texts or grinding or skill trees (regardless of how convoluted they are) or turn based combat......... Nor have i made a point to argue for any.


----------



## Staticnz

Who seriously gives the slightest f$&k in the world about being lectured to by hardcore gamers?

It's like someone saying "I am the most awesome at reading books", or "I am the best person at doing circuitry".

Who gives a crap. Like Angel said people like the games they like. Hardcore gamers bore me.


----------



## Staticnz

Aribeth said:


> Too lazy to think about it, I have many. I'll just name two: Half-Life and System Shock 2.


I love both.

Therefore my opinion is also awesome.


----------



## Kiba

Staticnz said:


> Who seriously gives the slightest f$&k in the world about being lectured to by hardcore gamers?
> 
> It's like someone saying "I am the most awesome at reading books", or "I am the best person at doing circuitry".
> 
> Who gives a crap. Like Angel said people like the games they like. Hardcore gamers bore me.


I know right? it's like asking something no one could give two ****s about, like if video games are art.


----------



## Staticnz

Kiba said:


> I know right? it's like asking something no one could give two ****s about, like if video games are art.


I always find it highly amusing to be told I don't matter by somebody that also doesn't matter.

I got bad news for you, people don't care what you think EITHER pal. And I never said i expected anyone to. I just like giving my opinion. Don't like it? Stfu!


----------



## Staticnz

Also you should tell that to the people who gave their opinions on my thread.


----------



## Kiba

Staticnz said:


> I always find it highly amusing to be told I don't matter by somebody that also doesn't matter.
> 
> I got bad news for you, people don't care what you think EITHER pal. And I never said i expected anyone to. I just like giving my opinion. Don't like it? Stfu!


I never said you didn't matter bro. I just implied your armchair intellectual garbage belongs somewhere else.


----------



## Staticnz

Kiba said:


> I never said you didn't matter bro. I just implied your armchair intellectual garbage belongs somewhere else.


Then make me leave. Go ahead.


----------



## Kiba

Staticnz said:


> Then make me leave. Go ahead.


It would be an injustice to try to make you leave, you might go back to posting in that garbage blog or trying to make music.


----------



## Staticnz

Dude you are really hurting my feelings.


----------



## AngelClare

Estillum said:


> You've already gone on record saying that you don't play RPGs, so why do you feel the need to constantly insult RPG mechanics and try to prove your point by calling them outdated?


Mass Effect is one of my favorite games. I would never have played and enjoyed it had they not dumped some of the...traditional (better word?)... RPG mechanics. It's certain gamers who insult others by characterizing these changes as "dumbing down" to the COD crowd.

Games like the Mass Effect series and Fallout 3 and 4 do a good job in introducing the attractive aspects of RPGs to a broader audience who are not accustomed to the "traditional" RPG gameplay mechanics.

After this I will play The Witcher 3. But so far, Fallout 4 will go down as one of my favorite games ever. I've already put in 103 hours.


----------



## AngelClare

Yo, people, it's just video games. Let's chill out.


----------



## Staticnz

AngelClare said:


> Yo, people, it's just video games. Let's chill out.


YES! Come on people.

Come on.


----------



## apx24

Aribeth said:


> just stop arguing with these guys who defend fallout 4. they're the kind of people who like mario, zelda and sonic games. that should tell you all you need to know about their game knowledge




No, those are some of my favourite game series and you're ripping on them.



Kiba said:


> It would be an injustice to try to make you leave, you might go back to posting in that garbage blog or trying to make music.


lol


----------



## Estillum




----------



## AngelClare

I really like the parallel between Synths and the Synth railroad and slavery and the abolitionist railroad. In the days of slavery people debated whether Blacks were equally human just as in Fallout 4 people debate if Synths should be treated like humans or be used like slaves. In the Fallout 4 world you can't help but understand why everyone is so afraid of Synths, there is so much ignorance about synths. You're tempted to agree with those who fear them and who worry that they will lead to the destruction of humanity. 

And of course another recurring theme is the difficult moral dilemma of doing what's practically necessary to save humanity without compromising the qualities that make us human. 

I also loved the Kellog quest where the justifications for the concept of revenge are questioned.

What Fallout 4 does really well IMO is put you in position of the protagonist and forces you to face moral problems from his point of view by having you inhabit his world. In this way you see moral problems from a different perspective.

From an artistic standpoint I think challenging the players moral perspective is more worthwhile than giving them freedom to define their character in the world.


----------



## Staticnz

apx24 said:


> lol


Hey, dats mean.


----------



## Estillum

AngelClare said:


> I really like the parallel between Synths and the Synth railroad and slavery and the abolitionist railroad.


Yes, these huge moral dilemmas are certainly something I spent a great deal of time thinking about while I went around blasting random townspeople's heads into mulch with a high caliber rifle before stripping them and stealing their snack cakes.


----------



## AngelClare

Estillum said:


> Yes, these huge moral dilemmas are certainly something I spent a great deal of time thinking about while I went around blasting random townspeople's heads into mulch with a high caliber rifle before stripping them and stealing their stack cakes.


But throughout the game there were quests where you had to choose what side you were on regarding the moral dilemma of the world.

Fallout 4 uses science fiction to examine deep moral issues and forces you to make choices and take sides. That's real art.

That's more substantial than the illusion of choice in multiple choice conversation trees.

Consider the Kellog quest. It makes you see the issue of revenge from a perspective seldom seen anywhere. Then it asks you how you feel. That's more substantive than running around enslaving people and nuking towns in Fallout 3.

Moreover, you can spend far more time building up a community of settlements than going around killing people. I'm still trying to complete my collection of power armor and building my power armor facility.

This is my power armor so far: 
http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...768/3028E80878C96B628899B6BF504BA75D3EE0A3FF/


----------



## Estillum

AngelClare said:


> But throughout the game there were quests where you had to choose what side you were on regarding the moral dilemma of the world.


You're really starting to loose me here. It's not the illusion of choice when you have a dialogue system that leads to the conversation ending very different ways, and in ways that will possibly affect out side scenarios later. What _is _the illusion of choice is when you do find Kellog and you are given 4 dialogue options that are all paraphrases of "I am angry and now you are dead.".

Also why should I care about killing him when, one I didn't know my husband or son outside the 3 minute intro so kellog my as well be some random wanderer for I'll I care, two you don't get the choice to kill him or not, you just do, so any remorse for those actions are null, and three I killed fifty ****ing raiders on the way here what about them are they some how OK to kill? A moral based system would work in any other game, but in fallout 4 it just creates ludonarrative dissonance when my character acts like a parent in dialogue and murderous psycho in gameplay due to being controlled by a human. If they wanted to tell some sort of branching story about morality they could of did it without forcing you into one character and removing the conversation trees, its not mutually exclusive. I played Pillars of Eternity recently, it's a modern "hard core" RPG with conversation trees, stat checks, the works. Yet they still worked in moral choices and had an ending that really made be deliberate on which side to pick. The fact that is was an RPG was didn't somehow make having moral choices impossible.

I'd also like to add though this is a personal gripe, Fallout 4's moral choices where pretty ****e. Wow how many times have we call to question the morality of human like machines, oh and an oppressed people getting way from subjugation on a "railroad"! how very ****ing subtle. It was so completely transparent it failed to move me in the slightest.


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> But throughout the game there were quests where you had to choose what side you were on regarding the moral dilemma of the world.
> 
> Fallout 4 uses science fiction to examine deep moral issues and forces you to make choices and take sides. That's real art.
> 
> That's more substantial than the illusion of choice in multiple choice conversation trees.
> 
> *Consider the Kellog quest. It makes you see the issue of revenge from a perspective seldom seen anywhere. Then it asks you how you feel. That's more substantive than running around enslaving people and nuking towns in Fallout 3.
> *
> Moreover, you can spend far more time building up a community of settlements than going around killing people. I'm still trying to complete my collection of power armor and building my power armor facility.
> 
> This is my power armor so far:
> http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...768/3028E80878C96B628899B6BF504BA75D3EE0A3FF/


Regardless of how you feel or what you do.... The outcome is exactly the same with every quest. Kellogs quest, no matter how you "feel" about the issue, you still kill him. And that's basically all the questlines. Even committing to a single faction changes very little and has pretty much no effect on end game.


----------



## AngelClare

Estillum said:


> Also why should I care about killing him when, one I didn't know my husband or son outside the 3 minute intro so kellog my as well be some random wanderer for I'll I care,


You can't _imagine_ how you would feel if you had a husband and a son and how you would feel seeing your spouse murdered right in front of your eyes while you're totally helpless and your son kidnapped? I could.



Estillum said:


> two you don't get the choice to kill him or not, you just do, so any remorse for those actions are null, and three I killed fifty ****ing raiders on the way here what about them are they some how OK to kill?


The raiders you kill in self-defense or because they're preventing you from completing your mission. With Kellog it's far more personal.

You don't get to choose to kill him because he needs to die for you to learn his motivation. And the way you discover his motivations is really well done, don't you think?

How you feel may not affect the world but it may affect how you think about revenge and may affect your choices down the line.

In the Covenant quest you do get multiple choices about killing or sparing. You also get the same choice in the Silver Shroud quest which was really fun to do.

And don't forget that you can kill most NPCs anytime you choose. You can kill everyone in Diamond City if you want.



Estillum said:


> I'd also like to add though this is a personal gripe, Fallout 4's moral choices where pretty ****e. Wow how many times have we call to question the morality of human like machines, oh and an oppressed people getting way from subjugation on a "railroad"! how very ****ing subtle. It was so completely transparent it failed to move me in the slightest.


All literature or art often explores the same themes. I think in Fallout 4 it's more than just "are synths conscious?" It's the future but it's also the past. You have the Minutemen and their laser muskets which is reminiscent of a time when slavery was legal in America. People debated if African slaves were equally human. Abolitionists tried to help slaves escape through the underground railroad. Now here you are in future but in the same situation. But there is a twist. This time it's synths and you're not sure if they're really human. Do you side with the synth abolitionists or the Institute or the BoS?

And when you discover the Institute you are confronted with a very difficult emotional choice. But I think the emotional choice is only difficult if you allow yourself to _imagine_ that you are the protagonist making this choice.

I haven't finished the game so I don't know how those choices impact the world. But maybe seeing how your choice impact the world is not the point. It's having to debate those choices in your own mind and make a decision.

This is clearly a far deeper game philosophically than Fallout 3 and most games. It's certainly not COD.

P.S. I had to go back to an old save game to find a quest id to fix a broken quest. In the process I ran into someone trapped in a refrigerator amidst the rubble. Did you meet this person? I totally missed that before. And I do have to choose what I want to do.


----------



## Kiba

There you go pulling things out of your *** again to make your arguments sound better. You can't kill everyone in Diamond City if you wanted. Most NPC's with names just fall to their knees, (same with kids). 
I love the "deep emotional choices" comment.... Dude, get over yourself. I've watched porn that illicited stronger emotional responses.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> There you go pulling things out of your *** again to make your arguments sound better. You can't kill everyone in Diamond City if you wanted. Most NPC's with names just fall to their knees, (same with kids).
> 
> I love the "deep emotional choices" comment.... Dude, get over yourself. I've watched porn that illicited stronger emotional responses.


Well, you must watch some very interesting porn.

People have different emotional reactions to movies, books and games too. Is that shocking to you? Is your reaction the only correct reaction? It certainly sounds like that's what you believe.

P.S. My statement about Diamond City was based on this video I saw not on the basis you claim. I can't verify that he killed absolutely everyone (of course you can't kill kids or companions)


----------



## Staticnz

Forgot 'im, he's just a cranky guy.


----------



## AngelClare

Estillum said:


> I played Pillars of Eternity recently, it's a modern "hard core" RPG with conversation trees, stat checks, the works. Yet they still worked in moral choices and had an ending that really made be deliberate on which side to pick. The fact that is was an RPG was didn't somehow make having moral choices impossible.


I checked out some videos on Pillars of Eternity to understand you better and see if it's something I could enjoy. I think I do understand where you're coming from better. Compared to Pillars of Eternity Fallout 4 is not an RPG at all and it's certainly not as complex. We just like different games. But I respect and understand your preferences better.


----------



## Staticnz

I love baldur's gate. Planescape torment and obsidian!

Omg pillars of eternity looks amazing! I gotta play that!


----------



## Kiba

Staticnz said:


> I love baldur's gate. Planescape torment and obsidian!
> 
> Omg pillars of eternity looks amazing! I gotta play that!


Name dropping....


----------



## AngelClare

Here are some of my Fallout 4 screenshots

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972814950/screenshots/?appid=377160


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> Here are some of Fallout 4 screenshots
> 
> http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972814950/screenshots/?appid=377160


I can honestly say.... I'm almost finished with every quest and i've been playing on very hard. And i havn't touched a power suit since it made you towards the beginning with the minutemen. You can basically wreck everything in the game with explosives and mines paired with a drug that slows time.


----------



## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> I can honestly say.... I'm almost finished with every quest and i've been playing on very hard. And i havn't touched a power suit since it made you towards the beginning with the minutemen. You can basically wreck everything in the game with explosives and mines.


Usually, I have my companions wear them. I want to collect at least one of every kind including the raider armor.

If I'm exploring the Glowing Sea in my hazmat suit and I meet a serious threat I'll tell my companion to get out and I get in. It's overpowered but fun.

I wished I realized I could put my companions in the armor earlier in the game.

Did you find the kid in the fridge yet?


----------



## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> Usually, I have my companions wear them. I want to collect at least one of every kind including the raider armor.
> 
> If I'm exploring the Glowing Sea in my hazmat suit and I meet a serious threat I'll tell my companion to get out and I get in. It's overpowered but fun.
> 
> I wished I realized I could put my companions in the armor earlier in the game.
> 
> Did you find the kid in the fridge yet?


No. speaking of companions in power armour. before i realised they could get in them, i had a raid on one of my settlements i was at (where an inactive companion happened to be, and my "just in case" power suit lay). next thing i know the companion jumps in it, totally wrecks, then, later when i came back, theirs the companion, but my suit is nowhere to be heard of. He got out of it and left it **** knows where. So RIP power armour.


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## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> No. speaking of companions in power armour. before i realised they could get in them, i had a raid on one of my settlements i was at (where an inactive companion happened to be, and my "just in case" power suit lay). next thing i know the companion jumps in it, totally wrecks, then, later when i came back, theirs the companion, but my suit is nowhere to be heard of. He got out of it and left it **** knows where. So RIP power armour.


Yeah, never leave your power fusion cores in unattended power armor. Settlers will use them when attacked and they can even be stolen by raiders, I think.


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## Staticnz

Kiba said:


> Name dropping....


Hahaha lol. You're like mean for no reason it's pathetic. I grew up playing games you smelly fart and I'm older than you (I think, I might be wrong). I bet I've played way more games than you.

Also, so what if I have? Why does that give a person cred? Don't be so lame.

Also gunna get pillars of eternity even though a wankspanner recommended it also strong urge to replay BD series.


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## Kiba

Staticnz said:


> Hahaha lol. You're like mean for no reason it's pathetic. I grew up playing games you smelly fart and I'm older than you (I think, I might be wrong). I bet I've played way more games than you.
> 
> Also, so what if I have? Why does that give a person cred? Don't be so lame.
> 
> Also gunna get pillars of eternity even though a wankspanner recommended it also strong urge to replay BD series.


Theirs "oh i played this and this", then theirs basically name dropping every 90's critically acclaimed rpg. Throw some variety bro, don't just drop games that need no introduction. If you threw some Krondor, or temple of elemental evil (maybe you didn't like Arcanum so you decided the strict rulesetsets of TOEE wasn't really that appealing), or even Birthright cool. But dude "oh well.. I played and liked Baldurs gate and both system shocks" cool good for you bro, so did everyone else who played them in the 90's or came back on GOG and decided to give them a spin. you want a high five bro?


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## Kiba

AngelClare said:


> Yeah, never leave your power fusion cores in unattended power armor. Settlers will use them when attacked and they can even be stolen by raiders, I think.


They should have given you something equivalent to like.... Car keys so if you forget to remove the cores, you don't have to worry about your suits getting jacked.


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## Staticnz

Kiba said:


> Theirs "oh i played this and this", then theirs basically name dropping every 90's critically acclaimed rpg. Throw some variety bro, don't just drop games that need no introduction. If you threw some Krondor, or temple of elemental evil (maybe you didn't like Arcanum so you decided the strict rulesetsets of TOEE wasn't really that appealing), or even Birthright cool. But dude "oh well.. I played and liked Baldurs gate and both system shocks" cool good for you bro, so did everyone else who played them in the 90's or came back on GOG and decided to give them a spin. you want a high five bro?


You really are pathetic.

I've played all those except this "birthright" game.

Again who gives the slightest crap in the world about how much you know about games. Or me.

It's like I am sooo much more refinneddd in my tasteee of gammessss. I can appreciate and enjoyyy it on such a higher levellll. Congratulations, it must be so awesome to be you while appreciating a game. I am so jealous. I just can't put it to words. I class that under, who gives a f&^k. You must be a genius.

Also why are you continuing to Fallout 4, I thought it was below your refined tastes?


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## Staticnz

Also I really like Arcanum but it required a lot of modding cos the base system of it was kind of a mess. I remember something like the weapons all breaking really quickly or something like that and a weird levelling system.


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## AussiePea

The older I get (and therefore the less free time I seem to have), the more I'm appreciating the simplification of the games tbh. What I appreciate about RPG's on PC is that the modding community will generally add complexity as they see fit and develop the game into something which the more "in-depth" crowds will enjoy. What I'm enjoying a lot about F4 is that I can come home, play for a couple of hours and feel like I've achieved something instead of feeling like I still need to put in another 3 hours into my stat configs before I can move on.


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## Kiba

Staticnz said:


> Also I really like Arcanum but it required a lot of modding cos the base system of it was kind of a mess. I remember something like the weapons all breaking really quickly or something like that and a weird levelling system.


Their was absolutely nothing wrong with Arcanums base system and weapons breaking wasn't an issue unless you were stupid enough to melee a ore golems. Was their problems? yes-> their were a lot of broken quests along with a lot of exploitables but that's the extent. Weird leveling system?.... I guess attributes, paired with basic skill trees grouped in a few different ways can be confusing (ie, magic, mechanical and standard skills) if you've never played an rpg.... Coming from someone who holds Baldurs in such regard, though it's like uhh.. what?


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## Aribeth

Arcanum is pretty mediocre, it looks good at first but it's pretty bland and the roleplaying is minimal. I got bored 15-20 hours in, it wasn't getting better.


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## Staticnz

Kiba said:


> Their was absolutely nothing wrong with Arcanums base system and weapons breaking wasn't an issue unless you were stupid enough to melee a ore golems. Was their problems? yes-> their were a lot of broken quests along with a lot of exploitables but that's the extent. Weird leveling system?.... I guess attributes, paired with basic skill trees grouped in a few different ways can be confusing (ie, magic, mechanical and standard skills) if you've never played an rpg.... Coming from someone who holds Baldurs in such regard, though it's like uhh.. what?


"holds Baldurs in such high regard"

I just really enjoyed them. I'm sorry you are so elite you can't enjoy games like that. They were fun. Omg I am not elite now. So sad.

PS. Yeah couldn't remember exactly what I didn't like about Arcanum cos I played it ages ago I just remember it being kind of funked up non-modded.


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## Kiba

Aribeth said:


> Arcanum is pretty mediocre, it looks good at first but it's pretty bland and the roleplaying is minimal. I got bored 15-20 hours in, it wasn't getting better.


Again.... The actual questline was sort of broken. But their were a lot of beautiful mechanics in that game related to the conflicts between magic and modern industry-> especially with the leveling scheme.


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## AngelClare

Kiba said:


> No.


Search the area west of Jamaica Plain and south of University Point and you should hear a voice. Next to a destroyed house.


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## fingertips

AussiePea said:


> What I appreciate about RPG's on PC is that the modding community will generally add complexity as they see fit and develop the game into something which the more "in-depth" crowds will enjoy.


in bethesda games at least, there's only so much you're able to change when it comes to mechanics. you can't really put attributes back in skyrim, for example.


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## Estillum

AngelClare said:


> I checked out some videos on Pillars of Eternity to understand you better and see if it's something I could enjoy. I think I do understand where you're coming from better. Compared to Pillars of Eternity Fallout 4 is not an RPG at all and it's certainly not as complex. We just like different games. But I respect and understand your preferences better.


That's all I can ask. I'm not trying to convince you fallout 4 in an inherently bad game, because it isn't. If I found it with any context and with out any knowledge of the earlier games I would of loved it. But with the the previous games in mind I can't help but feel bitter and disappointed. Maybe I am just whiny but I can't help the feeling. But I appreciate that we could end this in a civil manner.



Kiba said:


> Throw some variety bro, don't just drop games that need no introduction. If you threw some Krondor, or temple of elemental evil


 Is The temple of elemental evil even any good? I remember my dad playing when I was very young but every time I go to buy it and try it out I get scared off from how **** the rating for it are.


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## Kiba

Estillum said:


> Is The temple of elemental evil even any good? I remember my dad playing when I was very young but every time I go to buy it and try it out I get scared off from how **** the rating for it are.


Like most things Troika....... It had a lot of rather amazing scenario writing and some of the best leveling mechanics around imo. But had a lot of broken quests, parts of the game feel rushed/incomplete and their were a lot of bugs (which for the most part have been fan patched). I personally loved it. It had one of the best adaptations of the D&D rule sets adapted for a crpg, which coming from a tabletop background was a huge value add for me.


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## Estillum

I guess I'll to give it a shot at some point then. The absolute pittance GOG is asking for is worth it if I can at the very least finally write the game off.


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## AngelClare

You can turn regular clothes into very strong armor using the ballistic armor weave. I had didn't know that. You get it from the Railroad.


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## nooneknowsmyname

I've literally been doing nothing but play Fallout 4. I have over 250 hours in it right now.


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## Jesuszilla

AngelClare said:


> Yo, people, it's just video games. Let's chill out.


I've been doing a lot of research on games I plan buying since I've been out of gaming going on 4 years now and the community is kinda s***ty. No offense to anyone here but everywhere else they take gaming way too seriously.

On another forum I mentioned how some games on the Xbox One looked pretty good and got bashed called an X f**, I wasted my money and all this. I'm like jeez I don't even own the system. I'm just going off video game videos.

Another thing that annoys me to no end is everyone talks about game sales, which again you'd think these are CEO's or something.

The bickering, trolling, the inability to have any sort of discussion about games makes it so unpleasant to deal with. I recently stopped going there because they take gaming which is just a fun hobby to the extreme.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AngelClare

nooneknowsmyname said:


> I've literally been doing nothing but play Fallout 4. I have over 250 hours in it right now.


Me too. It's ruining my life. I thought I was bored with gaming until this landed.

145 hours. Still so many perks I want. I have a nice collection of power armor. Just need a few more pieces to complete.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AngelClare

Did anyone do the USS constitution quest? Fun quest.


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## Staticnz

I got distracted from Fallout 4 by replaying Baldur's Gate on my new Samsung tablet.

This game is so fun no matter what some elitist silly billy has to say.


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## Arbre

I still have to finish Fallout 3. And buy a PS4.


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## StupidApostates

(i know this is a little late but...whatever.)
The crafting is A-****ING-MAYZING. Seriously i was super hyped.
also the music is really great. my only issue with Bethesda's open ended rpgs is that i never get anything done. i just run around crafting **** and finding stuff  
10 OUTTA 10!1


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## AngelClare

StupidApostates said:


> (i know this is a little late but...whatever.)
> The crafting is A-****ING-MAYZING. Seriously i was super hyped.
> also the music is really great. my only issue with Bethesda's open ended rpgs is that i never get anything done. i just run around crafting **** and finding stuff
> 10 OUTTA 10!1


Glad to see I'm not the only one who likes it. I have 160 hours and I still haven't finished the main quest. I got a little distracted by building a power armor collection.


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## cuttingboard

enjoying this game, there aren't many games I'll buy on pre-release but FO 4 & GTA 5 were exceptions to that rule. Glad I did now, even restarted about 3 times before I finally settled with a build that I felt I'd get most enjoyment out of. It's kept me coming back, just like Witcher 3 did.


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## SplendidBob

My 5 year old laptop is finally dying so have been forced to upgrade and now I will have to play this game (damn shame). 

What kinds of builds are people finding the most fun?


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## Tabris

splendidbob said:


> My 5 year old laptop is finally dying so have been forced to upgrade and now I will have to play this game (damn shame).
> 
> What kinds of builds are people finding the most fun?


Melee is fun and is also very powerful, as it always is in Fallout.
It's annoying how you can't use Unarmed weapons when in power armour though.


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## JayDivision

Definitely one my favorite games of the year.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


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## AngelClare

Anyone try the new Survival Mode? It's brutally hard. 

The automatron dlc is kind of short but you get to build all kinds of crazy robots.


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## Repix

AngelClare said:


> Anyone try the new Survival Mode? It's brutally hard.
> 
> The automatron dlc is kind of short but you get to build all kinds of crazy robots.


I was waiting for the survival one! (Loved it in NV)

Thanks for letting us know! ^^


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## AngelClare

Repix said:


> I was waiting for the survival one! (Loved it in NV)
> 
> Thanks for letting us know! ^^


Apparently, it's still in beta. It completely changes the game. Food, water, beds and settlements become important to your survival. You hide from certain enemies because you can't afford to take damage. You have to plan out attacks.

But I think it would take 10 years to finish the game this way.


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## nooneknowsmyname

AngelClare said:


> Anyone try the new Survival Mode? It's brutally hard.
> 
> The automatron dlc is kind of short but you get to build all kinds of crazy robots.


I didn't get the dlc, but I did try the new survival beta. It definitely gives the game more depth. Also super ****ing hard.


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## lonerroom

nooneknowsmyname said:


> I didn't get the dlc, but I did try the new survival beta. It definitely gives the game more depth. Also super ****ing hard.


I wanted to try that survival beta for my game, to make the food matter more since you find so much of it all over the Commonwealth. My character has many boxes of sugar bombs, cans of pork and beans, boxes of Instamash, Salisbury Steak and Noodles than he knows what to do with, it would be nice to have them mean something crucial for the character


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## TranquilityLane

It's a great game, gameplay wise (especially the crafting caught my eye).
If only Bethesda would hire Obsidian for story and quest writing, Fallout couldn't get any better.
I watched lots of Let's play's of F4 and while I have to admit there are quite some interesting, exciting quests, the story doesn't really cut it out for me.
The ending is also pretty lazy imo but other than that it seems to be a really cool game overall that I would like to play, if I could only afford better parts for my PC. lol


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## AngelClare

lonerroom said:


> I wanted to try that survival beta for my game, to make the food matter more since you find so much of it all over the Commonwealth. My character has many boxes of sugar bombs, cans of pork and beans, boxes of Instamash, Salisbury Steak and Noodles than he knows what to do with, it would be nice to have them mean something crucial for the character


Before survival mode food was really just for healing. Now you need to eat regularly. I ended up getting the lead belly perk which reduces or eliminates the rads you get from eating wasteland food.

Survival mode is really engrossing. You will get really happy whenever you find a bed where you can sleep and save your game.

Yesterday, I got killed by one of those giant mosquitoes. Everything feels dangerous. You find yourself avoiding conflicts and living in fear.


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## lonerroom

AngelClare said:


> Before survival mode food was really just for healing. Now you need to eat regularly. I ended up getting the lead belly perk which reduces or eliminates the rads you get from eating wasteland food.
> 
> Survival mode is really engrossing. You will get really happy whenever you find a bed where you can sleep and save your game.
> 
> Yesterday, I got killed by one of those giant mosquitoes. Everything feels dangerous. You find yourself avoiding conflicts and living in fear.


That sounds adventurous! Can you tell me if I download this, will it cause any conflicts with my already saved game? And will it affect my mods? I have many mods in my game already


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## AngelClare

lonerroom said:


> That sounds adventurous! Can you tell me if I download this, will it cause any conflicts with my already saved game? And will it affect my mods? I have many mods in my game already


It's still technically beta. But it won't affect your saved games. I can't speak for mods.


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## lonerroom

AngelClare said:


> It's still technically beta. But it won't affect your saved games. I can't speak for mods.


I guess I'll wait. Did you know that if you use slm on a NPC you can change their appearance and if you save the game it'll stay that way? I changed Piper and now she is blonde, I also made Travis Miles blonde because there were too many NPC's that looked alike already so I changed people to look different from each other, Geneva now has the beehive hairdo.


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