# Would you date a single parent?



## Gloomy Grasshopper (Dec 20, 2009)

A relationship can be hard work -- but when you add in children from a previous relationship/marriage and the possible drama of the child(ren)'s mother/father (the significant other's ex), I'm sure it's quite a test of will and patience.

I suppose, though, that this situation can vary. For instance, if the person had the child(ren) with one person and during a marriage or if the person had the child(ren) with an ex-boyfriend/girlfriend or if they conceived during a one-night stand -- personal feelings of acceptance can vary among possible mates in those different possibilities. Another thing to consider is if the person had their children by different fathers/mothers, resulting in you having to deal with more than one ex.

How do you feel about dating a single parent, if you have no children of your own? Anyone have any experience in this field?


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## Steve123 (Sep 13, 2009)

To be honest, I actually have a bit of a fetish for single moms, particularly if they seem like they are really good with their kids. Of course, I've never actually dated a single mother, I would imagine it's much more complicated than I'd expect.


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

Gloomy Grasshopper said:


> *Would you date a single parent?*


No! A girl with a kid is probably my biggest turn off.


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## Cruiser (Jan 9, 2010)

I have dated single mothers, I don't find it difficult at all, it is different, you have to realize she can not get a sitter on a moments notice and you have to remember that their children always come first, you have to like kids, because many times they are on your dates with you, I have been on many Disney movie dates LOL where we take the little one out for a movie. I don't find it difficult, just different, and it can have it's advantages if you like kids. Me I am a big kid at heart sit me down with a box of Lego and I can play all day LOL


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Probably not, and I'm damn near the most desperate and pathetic male specimen on the planet.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

I used to say clear no - felt it was a too large gap in experience - but it's not a deal breaker anymore..
Like many other things it depends on the person, but I don't see why not.
... whether she would want a completely inexperienced guy is something else though :S


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

Nope. I tried it once. It didn't work. It really wasn't an issue at all at the beginning of the relationship, but I figured out pretty quickly that her parenting lifestyle was completely incompatible with my non-parenting lifestyle.

Lesson learned. Never again.

Also, I got a vasectomy shortly after breaking up with her. It may not be the best thing I've ever done for myself, but it's definitely in the top five.


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## Keith (Aug 30, 2008)

i've tried it before it was cool was my longest relationship 2yrs.You definitely have to like the kids and they have to like you if its gonna work out.You have to realize you are not no1 and be ok with that that's probably the toughest part.I had a lot of fun with my ex and her kids.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Cruiser said:


> I I am a big kid at heart sit me down with a box of Lego and I can play all day LOL


I'm a big kid too and i think Lego are awesome. I always build castles and huge robots with my nieces when i go visit my sister.

It's weird, the older one(3 and a half), she wont play with barbies at all. She like building robots and castle with me. She always makes me destroy the castle or any building using the robot after it's built. Unless the giant tank of destruction(which is the 8 month old niece) comes in and destroys it first with her bare hands, haha.

And to answer the question. I'm not sure if i would date a woman with kids. It's a lot of anxiety to deal with and i know i don't want kids myself. I probably wouldn't. But that always depends on what kind of spark you get with the woman.


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## Louis (Jun 30, 2009)

My only concern would be financial really, and I could handle it if it got serious so yah I would. It doesnt really turn me off at all, if I like someone I like them, if I dont I dont, i try not to think about the details too much . Besides dating itself doesnt mean it'll turn serious, in my experience a lot of girls hate committing too. 

Given some of the things in my life right now though I'd be more worried about her and the child if we did get serious. Something could very easily happen to me and I wouldnt want it to hurt them, by those regards I'd date but I might be a little wary of getting serious, if I thought I loved them though I'd just knock off the dumb crap I do. (Adrenaline rushes are awesome for SA )


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

At this point in my life, I would have to leave the option open, although it would not be my first choice.

She's a marked woman - has kids with another man who I would always have to have around for the kids. I would feel like a freak in his presence.


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## Gloomy Grasshopper (Dec 20, 2009)

http://www.tbrdr.com/never-date-a-single-mother/

^ I found that particular list interesting. I think #3 on the list (that the mother often still has a sexual relationship with the father of the child(ren) and still harbors a desire for she and her ex to be a family) would be the biggest reason I would decline in pursuing a relationship with a single mother. Of course, not all single mothers continue to have sex with the father of their child(ren) or desire to be a family with them, but it would be something that I would always suspect.

Another thing I found interesting in that list is that if you decide to help financially with the child(ren), the woman can make you pay child support when the relationship has ended. That's BS, in my opinion. If I'm not the father of the child, why should I have to pay child support?


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

most likely no...

Recently, I had the opportunity and declined

But, personally, I wouldn't say a women is marked, if she has a child

there are plenty of dudes who, I bet, would be up to it


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## mooncake (Jan 29, 2008)

I don't think I would be cut out for it, certainly not at the age I am now anyway. I'm in no way mature enough to deal with that kind of responsibility or able to adapt my life in such a way. It would just be too much to handle when I already have a lot of problems to deal with and little experience of relationships/life, let alone kids. 

If I were older, though... well, I'm usually someone who tends to go with their heart, so if I met someone I really liked and they happened to be a single father then I wouldn't totally rule anything out. I would, however, be hesistant to become a large part of the child/ren's lives too soon, as I wouldn't want to subject them to too much confusion/trauma if things didn't work out and they had gotten used to seeing me around. The issues of whether I got on with the child's mother, if still around, the children themselves, and the general strain that might be placed on the relationship as a result of having another adult and her children in the picture, I'm not sure how I would cope with, though. 

And I feel awful for saying this but, I do think I would struggle with the fact that my potential partner would have such a strong connection to another woman, even if at the time of my meeting him they despised each other, due to the fact that he had had a child with her. To me, (although I suppose this doesn't apply in the same way if the child was the result of a one night stand) creating a life with someone is a huge, huge deal. Maybe that goes to show that I just wouldn't be up for handling it, if I wasn't mature enough to not be bothered in some way by it...

Seeing that I'm currently in a relationship, which if ever turns sour I doubt will be followed by another, it's pretty unlikely that this type of situation would present itself anyway, I think! So it's quite hard to answer honestly...


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

I was actually going to try to find a guy with some kids. I don't want to have any and it's hard to find someone who shares that sentiment especially while in your early 20s. That was the next best thing I could come up with and at least I wouldn't have to give birth and be around it when it was really little. However then I found someone who was only going to agree to kids for the woman's sake and hope she did all the work raising a baby. We were both trying to find compromises in order to find relationships when neither of us really wanted children. Now we are married and he got a vasectomy Friday. Problem solved.


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## Saqq (Dec 1, 2008)

depends on the woman/kids ages... I mean if she had one that was like 14 (at 28-30) - there's probably more problems, but if she's a lot older (30+) with a 1-2year old, it may not be a deal breaker...

who am I kidding I'd probably date anyone at this point :b


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## sublimit (Aug 16, 2009)

I probably wouldn't. I don't really get along with most children, and I really don't want to be dealing with them when I'm 22. Having children would be something I would put off until the 32-35 year old range... if I ever end up wanting them at all. I'm way to young to be dating someone with a kid!


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

ktbare said:


> I find this insulting. I have 3 children. Pathetic, judgmental 'boys' are my biggest turn-off.


Why take it personally? Everybody is a turn-off to somebody. Smoking is probably my biggest turn-off, but I've never had a smoker take offense to my saying so. Nor should they. It's not a reflection on them, it's just a matter of my own tastes and preferences.

And some things about me are turn-offs to some people. That's okay, too. Such is life.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

I think I would, if I really liked her a lot. Her kid is really an extension of her, if ya think about it. Half of the kid technically is her mom. I'd be more inclined to do it if the father was completely out of the kids life, but if he was a weekend dad, even better cause we'd have weekends free. If she and her ex still were close and there was a chance they could still love each other deep down, then I wouldn't. I'd feel foolish.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

ktbare said:


> O f course I take it personally to find I am a turn-off, I have 3 children, I can't change that.
> How would you feel if everyone was saying guys with SA were a big turn-off?
> :mum


Not to jump in here, but I'd be more surprised to hear people say SA was a turn-on.
I don't think you can get angry at someone for thinking a girl with kids is a turn-off. It's his reality, his opinion. He is entitled to it. It doesn't mean he hates you or thinks you're gross or ugly, I can assure you.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

ktbare said:


> O f course I take it personally to find I am a turn-off, I have 3 children, I can't change that.
> How would you feel if everyone was saying guys with SA were a big turn-off?
> :mum


Guys with SA _are_ a big turn-off to some girls. No point in denying reality. That's totally okay. They're allowed to not be interested in me.


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## ktbare (Sep 13, 2009)

Game 7 said:


> Not to jump in here, but I'd be more surprised to hear people say SA was a turn-on.
> I don't think you can get angry at someone for thinking a girl with kids is a turn-off. It's his reality, his opinion. He is entitled to it. It doesn't mean he hates you or thinks you're gross or ugly, I can assure you.


Oh well sorry to be so sensitive, but I have seen people get warnings and such for lesser things on here. I just find a lot of guys do think this about women with kids, and it riles me up and gets me angry. Its discriminating to all us women with kids and very insulting.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

I wouldn't say that saying "dating a woman with kids is my biggest turnoff" is discrimination.


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## Louis (Jun 30, 2009)

It is kinda pushing it, also remember a lot of casual dating does go on, because someone has kids it doesnt mean they become your kids, I think I should throw that out there, its dating someone not marrying lol


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

ktbare said:


> O f course I take it personally to find I am a turn-off, I have 3 children, I can't change that.
> How would you feel if everyone was saying guys with SA were a big turn-off?
> :mum


So it wasn't your choice to have three children?

OK, well technically you can't change it _now_, but it's not like no choice was ever involved.

And I can only laugh at your SA comment. Take a quick glance at some of the polls and threads we've had in the Relationships forum. A fair percentage of girls _with SA_ have said they find guys with SA to be a turn-off, to say nothing of more outgoing girls.

And you know what? I appreciate their honesty, as bitter as it makes me, a lot more than girls who lie about what they like so they don't have to feel guilty. So it's really hard for me to understand why you're so upset about someone telling the truth instead of BSing you.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

I honestly don't get the discussion, and ktbare, not all guys think it's a turn off!
I can definately understand if many here would find it intimidating; having another guy that would always be part of her life because of that connection, maybe not knowing what to be for that kid or how.
But to directly call it a turn off is further than I'd go.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

ktbare said:


> Oh well sorry to be so sensitive, but I have seen people get warnings and such for lesser things on here. I just find a lot of guys do think this about women with kids, and it riles me up and gets me angry. Its discriminating to all us women with kids and very insulting.


I've encountered this mindset before with single mothers, and I find it rather strange. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to understand it.

For the record, I'm not one of the posters who said single motherhood is a turn-off. It's not a turn-off to me, it's just that the lifestyle of a single mother is fundamentally incompatible with my lifestyle. It simply can't work, so there's no point in even trying. But even after making that clear, I've still gotten reactions from single mothers similar to the one above.

The implication seems to be that I'm somehow _obligated_ to date single mothers, and if I don't, I'm personally insulting them. Which is, quite frankly, ridiculous. No one is ever obligated to date anyone. _Everyone_ has types people that they'll automatically reject based on some categorical criteria. For example, I happen to be heterosexual, so I don't date men. But it would be very silly for men (including gay ones) to take that as a personal insult. It isn't. I'm just not into men, and that's okay. I still like and respect them. Some of my best friends are men. Some of them are even gay.

Single mothers just happen to be another item on my categorical rejection list, and that's no more a personal insult than categorically rejecting men. I'm just not into single mothers, and that's okay. I still like and respect them. Some of my best friends are mothers. Some of them are even single.

My point is, _everybody_ has a categorical rejection list, and everybody is on somebody else's categorical rejection list. And that's okay. There's no point in getting upset about it. It's just life.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

ktbare said:


> Can you guys really afford to be so picky?


Classy.

But to answer directly: yes, yes we can. Because for some of us, being single is preferable to dating a woman with children. So there's really no dilemma: we either find a suitable childless woman, or we continue on alone and are no worse off for it.



ktbare said:


> Its much worse to say a woman with kids is a turn-off though, because it could be for so many reasons, some of which are VERY-VERY insulting.


I honestly haven't a clue where you're going with this.

For me at least, it's difficult (at best) to define what makes one judgment of an individual "worse" than some other judgment. Life isn't fair, and we all walk around judging one another everyday; that's reality. But if there's one factor I feel compelled to consider in determining the morality of a judgment, it's simply to what extent the person being judged has control over the condition leading to the judgment. And I think it's hard to argue having children is any less controllable than having SA -- quite the opposite, actually. So in my mind (which admittedly may be as twisted and unconventional as one will ever come across), judging someone for having SA is actually _less_ defensible than judging their motherhood/fatherhood. FWIW.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

To ktbare,

If you're picking up on someone passing judgement on you, then your reaction makes some sense to me. It's still a person's right to hold an opinion, but stating it in a relatively public forum is a bit harsh. I'm not saying the opinion, the negative judgement, is right or wrong, but that expressing it here is unnecessary.

However, the question was asked. While people have an obligation to be decent here, they aren't obligated to be dishonest. Whether a guy believes that being a single mom says something negative about a person, or he's intimidated by the kid(s), the father(s), or he just hates crowds, it's his call. You'll only vex yourself worrying about men who aren't interested.


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## complex (Apr 22, 2009)

I dont think I would have any problem with it if there was no drama from the other parent but also I would not want the child to get to know me until I knew there was something special there it is also alot of work you are all correct so I think it would have to be a special someone...


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## Akane (Jan 2, 2008)

If we say it's discrimination or insulting or anything else then every single person including those being insulted and discriminated against has done it. Everyone is turned off by someone for something they can't change. Everyone has people they won't date for a variety of reasons. I think someone having children is a very valid reason to be turned off and not want to date them. Some people hate children. Some people hate the idea of raising someone else's children. Some people aren't ready for children. Some people want to see them when they are tiny and have a chance to raise them their way. Some people just don't want to deal with a situation like that. There are dozens of completely valid reasons. Probably more valid reasons than many other things that are an automatic turn off to people. You wouldn't want any of those people trying to go on dates with you anyway because it will only end badly. If they don't want to be involved in that situation then making them feel bad about it won't help anyone.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

ktbare said:


> Can you guys really afford to be so picky?


I can see where you're coming from, if it feels most guys don't want to date a girl with kids, because it could be true. And that isn't a reflection on you or your kids or other women like you. It's a reflection on the persons individual preference. Maybe he doesn't want to date you because he isn't ready to be a father and if he dates you and likes you, it's going to create problems.
So some men just don't want to get involved in that situation and they make it known...would you prefer they lied and pretended to be okay with it if they really weren't?


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Fancy making a thread about single parents. I mean, come on guys. I'm wondering how a thread about dating 'obese people' could be received. Don't tell me it's any different because that's just farcical. It's hard enough for woman to be single with kids but to jump online to a social anxiety site like this and see some of the things that have been written makes my skin crawl assuming these men and woman are trying to deal with social anxiety as well as their offspring.

There's no disputing the territory for accidental discrimination regardless of whether it is intended or not as I see that one person on this thread has already taken this the wrong way. 

Was it not assumed that there may actually be single parents on this forum who would stumble across this thread? Just put yourself in their shoes. I am not a parent at all, but I like to believe I have some common morality and at least some level of compassion; there are just some topics that should be left alone. Opinions are perfectly fine, but I implore others here to draw the line.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Futures said:


> No! A girl with a kid is probably my biggest turn off.


This is plainly ambiguous. I would be offended by this if I was a single mother, as I can see as clear as day that you have not specified your reasons for finding it 'a turn off'..

Indeed, what is a 'turn off'??


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

millenniumman75 said:


> She's a marked woman


No offence man and with all due respect but I think this is also pushing it a bit far.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Patron on a ship of fools said:


> Why take it personally? Everybody is a turn-off to somebody. Smoking is probably my biggest turn-off, but I've never had a smoker take offense to my saying so. Nor should they. It's not a reflection on them, it's just a matter of my own tastes and preferences.


Smoking is one thing, children are another. Smoking, children, smoking, children *weighing gestures with hands*


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> Fancy making a thread about single parents. I mean, come on guys. I'm wondering how a thread about dating 'obese people' could be received. Don't tell me it's any different because that's just farcical. It's hard enough for woman to be single with kids but to jump online to a social anxiety site like this and see some of the things that have been written makes my skin crawl assuming these men and woman are trying to deal with social anxiety as well as their offspring.
> 
> There's no disputing the territory for accidental discrimination regardless of whether it is intended or not as I see that one person on this thread already has already taken this the wrong way.
> 
> Was it not assumed that there may actually be single parents on this forum who would stumble across this thread? Just put yourself in their shoes. I am not a parent at all, but I like to believe I have some common morality and at least some level of compassion; there are just some topics that should be left alone. Opinions are perfectly fine, but I implore others here to draw the line.


If a thread of "would you date an obese person" were made, and someone came on it and said "No! I wouldn't date an obese person, that's my biggest turn off"...I mean, why would an obese person take that personal? Obese people are human, which means there is likely something they too wouldn't put up with in a possible romantic relationship. So what? No one said that women with kids are gross or that they should be branded with a scarlet letter. All I saw was people saying that it was a turn off or it wasn't a turn off.
Should everyone find everything a turn on to avoid hurting peoples feelings?
I don't understand.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> Smoking is one thing, children are another. Smoking, children, smoking, children *weighing gestures with hands*


Nobody is debating the importance of the two things. They're saying some people wouldn't date a person that smokes, I wouldn't date someone who had kid(s) from a previous relationship...I don't understand why anyones feelings would be hurt over that statement.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Patron on a ship of fools said:


> Guys with SA _are_ a big turn-off to some girls.


But you don't expect them to openly disclose it? Well, allow me to rephrase, on this forum anything goes right? I mean, compared to real life? Is that it??


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Game 7 said:


> Nobody is debating the importance of the two things. They're saying some people wouldn't date a person that smokes, I wouldn't date someone who had kid(s) from a previous relationship...I don't understand why anyones feelings would be hurt over that statement.


All I am saying is it's stupid to compare smoking cigarettes to having children man.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Game 7 said:


> If a thread of "would you date an obese person" were made, and someone came on it and said "No! I wouldn't date an obese person, that's my biggest turn off"...I mean, why would an obese person take that personal? Obese people are human, which means there is likely something they too wouldn't put up with in a possible romantic relationship. So what? No one said that women with kids are gross or that they should be branded with a scarlet letter. All I saw was people saying that it was a turn off or it wasn't a turn off.
> Should everyone find everything a turn on to avoid hurting peoples feelings?
> I don't understand.


*Sighs*

You're totally missing the point here.

The point is you don't bring it up to start with. Simple.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> Fancy making a thread about single parents. I mean, come on guys. I'm wondering how a thread about dating 'obese people' could be received.


That's a pretty damn good point.
..or dating nerdy people - which I probably am.

I'm fully aware not everything about me goes down well with others, but I'd really prefer if it wasn't said to my face much and established as the general opinion.
Some people have, for various reasons, a harder time finding someone, but there isn't much point in talking about why they are less desirable from your point of view.
Let's keep it helpful, encouraging and positive?


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> But you don't expect them to openly disclose it? Well, allow me to rephrase, on this forum anything goes right? I mean, compared to real life? Is that it??


I wouldn't mind if they did openly disclose it. Some girls just aren't into me, for a variety of reasons. That's okay. It's called "reality".


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## Cruiser (Jan 9, 2010)

ktbare said:


> O f course I take it personally to find I am a turn-off, I have 3 children, I can't change that.
> How would you feel if everyone was saying guys with SA were a big turn-off?
> :mum


Don't let them get to you, I would take you out in an instant. I was once told by a girl that because I have SA no woman would ever want to date me, and if I did find one who would it would only be because she felt she couln't do any better, it was really odd because the conversation was quite pleasant and then she just flipped out, I was shocked at first then i thought some poor ******* may marry that girl, and I started feeling pretty lucky to see her true colours right from the start LOL


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

All I said was I can understand how single parents or single mothers for that matter can feel offended when people say things like ,'I find single mother's a turn off', without providing any level of elaboration. It's fair to assume somebody with social anxiety might take that the wrong way. Nay?


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

zephys said:


> That's a pretty damn good point.
> ..or dating nerdy people - which I probably am.
> 
> I'm fully aware not everything about me goes down well with others, but I'd really prefer if it wasn't said to my face much and established as the general opinion.
> ...


Amen.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> All I am saying is it's stupid to compare smoking cigarettes to having children man.


They're both dealbreakers. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to decide what my own dealbreakers are.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

zephys said:


> That's a pretty damn good point.
> ..or dating nerdy people - which I probably am.
> 
> I'm fully aware not everything about me goes down well with others, but I'd really prefer if it wasn't said to my face much and established as the general opinion.
> ...


The question was asked. People answered. That was pretty much the whole point of this thread.

People are allowed to not be romantically interested in other people, for any reason, or for no reason at all. Such is life.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> All I am saying is it's stupid to compare smoking cigarettes to having children man.


That's not true. It depends on the context. In just about every way, children are more important than cigarettes, obviously.
But when it comes to what you want in a potential life partner, if cigarettes turn you off, or the idea of raising kids that aren't your own turns you off, why is one worse than the other? Why is it taken personal? Neither should be. 
Hypothetical situation: I have a kid with my ex-girlfriend, who isn't fit to raise the child so I become a full time single parent. In the years after this, I see a girl in a shop who I think is really cute, and I have the ***** to introduce myself and make small talk and ask her out. She says sure, since I'm cool and handsome and all that. If I mentioned to her that I had a child at home and she changed her mind about the date, should I take that personal? I wouldn't, because I'd understand that she either isn't ready to eventually assume a mother role, or doesn't want to do that with another woman's child. That's her life, her choice, her preference, her "turn off"...

Maybe that was the wrong word. Turn off. Would not interested have been better?


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## Cruiser (Jan 9, 2010)

I have 4 nieces ages 10, 7, 4, and 6 months, I can honestly say those kids have gotten me through the toughest times in my life, I remember when the oldest was born I got to hold her at only 20 minutes old, and my heart melted. I now spoil the hell out of them just in case I end up single for the rest of my days I need to hold tight to the favourite uncle title so I have someone to look after me when I am old and grey  I think kids are a blessing not baggage.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> I have 4 nieces ages 10, 7, 4, and 6 months, I can honestly say those kids have gotten me through the toughest times in my life, I remember when the oldest was born I got to hold her at only 20 minutes old, and my heart melted. I now spoil the hell out of them just in case I end up single for the rest of my days I need to hold tight to the favourite uncle title so I have someone to look after me when I am old and grey  I think kids are a blessing not baggage.


I do too. My only niece is the brightest piece of gold I'll ever see. And I'd even consider dating a single mom.
But I can also understand why people wouldn't want to. It's a lot of work and sacrifice, and what happens if you break up someday, you still love that kid like its your own, but now it's not even close...ya know? It's tough, and some people would rather not even get started on that path, which should be understandable.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Jaiyyson said:


> Was it not assumed that there may actually be single parents on this forum who would stumble across this thread? Just put yourself in their shoes. I am not a parent at all, but I like to believe I have some common morality and at least some level of compassion; there are just some topics that should be left alone. Opinions are perfectly fine, but I implore others here to draw the line.


It's not hard to put myself in their shoes. I am a nerdy guy with SA. I come on here and see threads all the time in which girls admit they find timid, shy guys to be unattractive, even though they themselves have SA! Here's the key: *the threads themselves don't bother me.* Sure, the fact that most girls are turned off by shyness is extremely frustrating to me, but I don't lobby to get those threads closed or lash out at the individual girls who express their preferences! I mean, I've never even given a thought to that, because I have no desire to stifle opinions and ignore reality. Don't shoot the messenger.


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## ktbare (Sep 13, 2009)

Patron on a ship of fools said:


> I've encountered this mindset before with single mothers, and I find it rather strange. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to understand it.
> 
> For the record, I'm not one of the posters who said single motherhood is a turn-off. It's not a turn-off to me, it's just that the lifestyle of a single mother is fundamentally incompatible with my lifestyle. It simply can't work, so there's no point in even trying. But even after making that clear, I've still gotten reactions from single mothers similar to the one above.
> 
> ...


Where did I imply you are obligated to date single mothers? LOL


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## ktbare (Sep 13, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Classy.
> 
> But to answer directly: yes, yes we can. Because for some of us, being single is preferable to dating a woman with children. So there's really no dilemma: we either find a suitable childless woman, or we continue on alone and are no worse off for it.
> 
> ...


DILLIGAF? I have the right to be offended if I so wish. I don't care if I'm being classy or not. 
Yes it is a big difference judging someone with SA, as it is possible to improve, having children is impossible to undo.


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## mooncake (Jan 29, 2008)

Jaiyyson said:


> Fancy making a thread about single parents.


I fail to see what's wrong with asking the question; after all there have been threads titled "Would you date someone who still lived with their parents?", "Would you date someone who didn't drive?" etc., and as far as I'm aware no one seemed to kick up a fuss about those. Just out of genuine curiosity... do you object to those types of questions being asked?

I do think that some of the responses here could have been worded less bluntly, and that obviously if anyone feels offended by anything that has been said, then perhaps action should be taken to remove certain posts if it's clear that a line has been crossed or that they're overly offensive. But I do think people should be entitled to voice their opinion, and don't think we should prevent someone from asking what seems like a genuine question looking for genuine answers just on the off chance that someone's honest opinion, which they're perfectly entitled to, may not align with what others want to hear.

I don't know... I don't like the thought of anyone feeling hurt by comments posted, and realise that due to the nature of the board we have to act somewhat sensitively, but I don't think it would be right to ban questions, such as the topic of this thread, from being asked, simply because there may be single parents, people living with their parents, those who don't drive etc. on the boards who might not get the answers that in a perfect world they'd like to hear.

I will say though, that I do understand why some of the responses have been taken badly. After all, having kids doesn't necessarily change you as a person, ultimately, and to hear that you wouldn't be considered dating material because of having them is obviously not a very nice thing to have to hear, I'm guessing. But I think what's been said may have come across more harshly than it was meant perhaps? Simply, because not everyone went into the reasons behind their answer. I'm sure no one intended to cause offence or to imply that single parents are somehow 'lesser' than those without kids. I think it's just a question of people being a bit more aware of the way they word things, maybe? I don't know...

Anywho, although I already said I don't think I'm mature enough to handle being around kids, I would kind of like an excuse to act like a child again actually and to crack out all my old lego, toys, etc. that I can't bear to clear out. Heh.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

ktbare said:


> DILLIGAF? I have the right to be offended if I so wish. I don't care if I'm being classy or not.
> Yes it is a big difference judging someone with SA, as it is possible to improve, having children is impossible to undo.


You're assuming people think there is something wrong with you having kids. 
I don't think that is what they are saying, at all. They aren't looking at you like you have some sort of problem or disability even. They just aren't interested in dating women who've had children from a previous relationship. That is all.
There is nothing wrong with you, I actually think you're quite pretty.


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## Gloomy Grasshopper (Dec 20, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> Fancy making a thread about single parents. I mean, come on guys. I'm wondering how a thread about dating 'obese people' could be received. Don't tell me it's any different because that's just farcical. It's hard enough for woman to be single with kids but to jump online to a social anxiety site like this and see some of the things that have been written makes my skin crawl assuming these men and woman are trying to deal with social anxiety as well as their offspring.
> 
> There's no disputing the territory for accidental discrimination regardless of whether it is intended or not as I see that one person on this thread already has already taken this the wrong way.
> 
> Was it not assumed that there may actually be single parents on this forum who would stumble across this thread? Just put yourself in their shoes. I am not a parent at all, but I like to believe I have some common morality and at least some level of compassion; there are just some topics that should be left alone. Opinions are perfectly fine, but I implore others here to draw the line.


For the record, I'm not against dating a woman who has children. I'm currently talking to a woman who has children, so I wanted the insight of others on the subject, since it's a new experience for me. I didn't know it would cause an argument or hurt anyone's feelings -- and for that, I apologize. But, ultimately, people are entitled to their opinion.

And to ktbare, I'm sorry my thread has upset you. The fact that you are single mother is very honorable -- there are many mothers who abandon their children, so it's a very honorable thing that you are taking care of your three children. I know it must be a very difficult and time-consuming thing.


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## TRENNER (Sep 21, 2009)

Gloomy Grasshopper said:


> A relationship can be hard work -- but when you add in children from a previous relationship/marriage and the possible drama of the child(ren)'s mother/father (the significant other's ex), I'm sure it's quite a test of will and patience....
> 
> How do you feel about dating a single parent, if you have no children of your own? Anyone have any experience in this field?


When I was single/never married, I would not date women with children precisely for the reasons you list. I knew it is a big responsibility and burden.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

ktbare said:


> Where did I imply you are obligated to date single mothers? LOL


By apparently taking offense at the mere existence of men who won't date single mothers. The implication is that the only ways I can avoid offending your delicate sensibilities are by either dating single mothers, or ceasing to exist.

I don't plan on doing either. Well, I'll cease to exist eventually, but not for a while. I hope.

The point is, don't take it personally. If someone doesn't want to date you, for whatever reason, it doesn't mean they're insulting you.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

Question: What exactly am I supposed to do to avoid offending the delicate sensibilities of single mothers? Completely alter my entire my entire lifestyle to suit their needs? Abandon my own hopes, dreams, and ambitions? Resign myself to a life that would make my utterly miserable? Because that's what it would take.

Or they can just, y'know, _not take it personally_ when I say I'm not interested in dating them, which strikes me as a much simpler solution. Let's go with that one.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

I personally think it was the words "turn off". Like, you would be turned on by her and then turned off learning she had a child. I didn't say you said it either, I'm just saying those words were said.
Some of the best women you could ever hope to meet are single moms but sadly a lot of guys aren't ready to accept that challenge in their lives, and never will be. It's got nothing to do with the woman or her children personally, it's everything.


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## JayDontCareEh (Jul 16, 2007)

I think it would depend on the person. If I really liked her I couldn't see it mattering all that much.

I'd just hope the father isn't the psycho jealous type.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

ktbare said:


> DILLIGAF? I have the right to be offended if I so wish. I don't care if I'm being classy or not.
> Yes it is a big difference judging someone with SA, as it is possible to improve, having children is impossible to undo.


I really don't GAF whether you GAF, to be frank. :lol

Like everyone else has already said, my reasons for not wanting to date a mother have nothing to do with it affecting my judgment of the woman herself, and everything to do with the lifestyle and complications inherently involved.

And I'm still not buying the moral distinction between not dating someone with SA and not dating someone with children. Sorry.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Patron on a ship of fools said:


> By apparently taking offense at the mere existence of men who won't date single mothers. The implication is that the only ways I can avoid offending your delicate sensibilities are by either dating single mothers, or ceasing to exist.
> 
> I don't plan on doing either. Well, I'll cease to exist eventually, but not for a while. I hope.
> 
> The point is, don't take it personally. If someone doesn't want to date you, for whatever reason, it doesn't mean they're insulting you.


You see things in black and white, friend.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> You see things in black and white, friend.


Don't insult me and call me a friend in the same sentence. Pick one or the other.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Patron on a ship of fools said:


> Question: What exactly am I supposed to do to avoid offending the delicate sensibilities of single mothers? Completely alter my entire my entire lifestyle to suit their needs? Abandon my own hopes, dreams, and ambitions? Resign myself to a life that would make my utterly miserable? Because that's what it would take.
> 
> Or they can just, y'know, _not take it personally_ when I say I'm not interested in dating them, which strikes me as a much simpler solution. Let's go with that one.


That's a tad ridiculous man. This is a thread about single parents remember, let's not forget that. Not, 'my life ceases to exist if I feel obliged by said thread to date single mothers.' Please. Come now.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

This has truly regressed. I'll leave it at that.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Game 7 said:


> That's not true. It depends on the context. In just about every way, children are more important than cigarettes, obviously.
> But when it comes to what you want in a potential life partner, if cigarettes turn you off, or the idea of raising kids that aren't your own turns you off, why is one worse than the other? Why is it taken personal? Neither should be.
> Hypothetical situation: I have a kid with my ex-girlfriend, who isn't fit to raise the child so I become a full time single parent. In the years after this, I see a girl in a shop who I think is really cute, and I have the ***** to introduce myself and make small talk and ask her out. She says sure, since I'm cool and handsome and all that. If I mentioned to her that I had a child at home and she changed her mind about the date, should I take that personal? I wouldn't, because I'd understand that she either isn't ready to eventually assume a mother role, or doesn't want to do that with another woman's child. That's her life, her choice, her preference, her "turn off"...
> 
> Maybe that was the wrong word. Turn off. Would not interested have been better?


I see it now as an argument of semantics. As I stipulated before, people must sometimes state what they mean in order for people to not be taking things the wrong way. It's only to be expected.


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## Patron on a ship of fools (Nov 17, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> That's a tad ridiculous man. This is a thread about single parents remember, let's not forget that. Not, 'my life ceases to exist if I feel obliged by said thread to date single mothers.' Please. Come now.


Uh, that's not what I said.

But you're right, this _has_ truly regressed. I'm outta here.


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## JFmtl (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm not really decided on this topic. I'm 22, still living at my parents, and im not done with school, so I don't see why would a women with children want to be with me, since I obviously don't have the maturity and life experience to deal with children, plus my lifestyle is currently lightyears away from the lifestyle of a single mom. 

Also, I would like to remind people here that in the relationship world, no one has to be "fair" and politically correct. You have the right to discriminate on tons of things that would be illegal to discriminate on for a job. You can discriminate on looks, size, religion, skin color, nationality, language spoken, location, financial situation, and much more stuff, and yeah, we all do that, at least for part of those things. No one is forced to date someone they don't like, and this is all ok, and this is coming from a small, hairy, low-confident, negative guy (in other words, a living deal-breaker turn-off). We are never happy to learn that we turn off someone else for something we don't have control on(or something we can't change), but whine about it won't change anything. 

also to single mothers: guys who are turned off by single mothers would not be a good match for you anyway. Better be alone than mismatched.


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## SOME (Jul 13, 2009)

Hmm. Dating a single parent. It would have to depend on what kind of girl she is, I gusse that's what the dating is for.... But Yeah i'll give it a shot and if I love her and find love in her kids too I gusse i'll take them in.


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## SOME (Jul 13, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Classy.
> 
> But to answer directly: yes, yes *we* can. Because for some of us, being single is preferable to dating a woman with children. So there's really no dilemma: we either find a suitable childless woman, or we continue on alone and are no worse off for it.
> 
> .


Who is we :sus


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

SOME said:


> Who is we :sus


The SA-suffering guys who have said in this thread we wouldn't want to date a single mom, I guess. I was responding to her quote, "can you guys afford to be picky?"


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## Lithium4 (Nov 23, 2007)

Some of you guys are being a bit harsh on single moms. To say that you wouldn't be interested in being her kid's step-father is one thing, but you're making it seem like there's something inherintly unattractive about a woman who happens to have children. Don't worry, I doubt she'll have you changing diapers on the first date.


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

I'd really only date a single mom if I was a single dad. Then it would be more of a joint venture than me picking up the slack. Otherwise, no, I probably would not date a single mother . . . for long anyway.


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## JFmtl (Dec 23, 2008)

Lithium4 said:


> Some of you guys are being a bit harsh on single moms. To say that you wouldn't be interested in being her kid's step-father is one thing, but you're making it seem like there's something inherintly unattractive about a woman who happens to have children. Don't worry, I doubt she'll have you changing diapers on the first date.


Her having kids doesn't make her an unattractive woman, but still at some point if the relation gets serious, you will have to deal with the fact she has kids, no? And I can perfectly understand guys my age (early 20's) not being interested or enthusiastic about getting in that situation, no matter how hot or an amazing person that woman might be.


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## Louis (Jun 30, 2009)

JFmtl said:


> Her having kids doesn't make her an unattractive woman, but still at some point if the relation gets serious, you will have to deal with the fact she has kids, no? And I can perfectly understand guys my age (early 20's) not being interested or enthusiastic about getting in that situation, no matter how hot or an amazing person that woman might be.


The relationship doesnt need to get serious though, in my experience most don't, I would love one that did. Maybe I meet the wrong girls? :sus Either way it doesnt need to get serious to date someone which seems to be what everyone is assuming. Physical attraction is just that, dating is just fun, you can always break it off if feelings get to be too much.


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## Lithium4 (Nov 23, 2007)

I guess I'm just a pessimist, I don't expect any relationship of mine to get to taht point. But if it did, we'd deal with it then.


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## Lithium4 (Nov 23, 2007)

Me and Louis think alike.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Lithium4 said:


> Some of you guys are being a bit harsh on single moms. To say that you wouldn't be interested in being her kid's step-father is one thing, but you're making it seem like there's something inherintly unattractive about a woman who happens to have children. *Don't worry, I doubt she'll have you changing diapers on the first date.*


Maybe not, but what if you start to like her and want to spend more time with her, but do not want the responsibility of being a step-father...there's not much point in dating if you know it won't work out.


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## Lithium4 (Nov 23, 2007)

I dunno, like I said, my relationships never get serious, so I guess that skews my view. I never look beyond the second date.


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## Louis (Jun 30, 2009)

Game 7 said:


> Maybe not, but what if you start to like her and want to spend more time with her, but do not want the responsibility of being a step-father...there's not much point in dating if you know it won't work out.


Yah there kinda is, I've done it before. Its just for fun not a long-term thing. I've never found a girl my age who would want to go long-term and there is a lot of single mothers my age. Honestly I would much prefer finding a great girl but there is reasons to just have flings it addresses our needs for both human contact and physical desire.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

^If that was more common, more guys would maybe change their stance and date, just for fun. But I dunno too many single moms that wanna do that very often.


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## Louis (Jun 30, 2009)

lol maybe my views a little unique I got a buddy mad into going to cougar bars and stuff.


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## Lithium4 (Nov 23, 2007)

BTW, Game 7, I wasn't talking about you in my earlier post. I can tell you're just saying you wouldn't want to lead a woman on when you know there's no long-term potential.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Lithium4 said:


> BTW, Game 7, I wasn't talking about you in my earlier post. I can tell you're just saying you wouldn't want to lead a woman on when you know there's no long-term potential.


Oui, je comprende, merci.


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## Haydsmom2007 (Oct 16, 2009)

Dating a guy with kids wouldn't be ideal but I would and I have. I've "dated" three single dads before. One I actually dated, and the other two I just kind of ...... you know..... had sex with on a regular basis =\ never met ANY of their kids. I wouldn't have wanted to.

I'm a single mom, and I think it would be weird to date someone with children. Cause my son is and will always be the most important person in my life. He's always number one, period. 

But at the same time, I think if I were a man, a single mom would be really appealing to me. Because if she's a single parent, you know she's strong willed, independent, can fend for herself, can support herself AND children, etc etc. (well in most cases. There are the single moms who are just looking for a husband so they can become a housewife booo)

My boyfriend hated kids before he met mine. He really liked me and I think the fact that I have a child was a turn ON for him because he can't have children of his own. He treats my son like is own and loves him as much as he loves me. So yeah, I'm really thankful to have him.


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## Haydsmom2007 (Oct 16, 2009)

Wow this discussion is ridiculous. I don't get offended if people are turned off by the fact that I'm a mom because my son is more important then they are... so who cares? Kids make dating more difficult but if someone really likes you then they would make it work. My philosophy is it either works out or it doesn't. Simple, but it's true. If he isn't willing to give it a shot because you have kids then who cares, he's not someone you'd want to be with anyway. You could think of it as a way to weed out people who aren't right for you.


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

ktbare said:


> I find this insulting. I have 3 children. Pathetic, judgmental 'boys' are my biggest turn-off.


I agree. Oh well , its their loss for being ignorant


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## rcapo89 (Jun 3, 2009)

I know this may sound morbid but if I ever dated a single parent, I would much rather her husband/boyfriend/significant other be deceased. It would make life much less coplicated.


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## Cruiser (Jan 9, 2010)

Shauna The Dead said:


> I agree. Oh well , its their loss for being ignorant


I agree as well, they don't know what they are missing.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Haydsmom2007 said:


> Wow this discussion is ridiculous. I don't get offended if people are turned off by the fact that I'm a mom because my son is more important then they are... so who cares? Kids make dating more difficult but if someone really likes you then they would make it work. My philosophy is it either works out or it doesn't. Simple, but it's true. If he isn't willing to give it a shot because you have kids then who cares, he's not someone you'd want to be with anyway. You could think of it as a way to weed out people who aren't right for you.


:clap Well said!!


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

I can't believe this thread has been reduced to a debate over what people are allowed to be turned off by. How ridiculous.


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## Gloomy Grasshopper (Dec 20, 2009)

Futures said:


> I can't believe this thread has been reduced to a debate over what people are allowed to be turned off by. How ridiculous.


When I posted this thread, I had no idea I'd infuriate a mob of angry women. One angry woman is frightening enough.

But I wasn't biased in my question -- I didn't ask "would you date a single mom?", I asked "would you date a single parent?" -- I've yet to see an angry comment from a single dad.

I meant no harm by the question -- as I previously said, I wanted the insight of others when it comes to dating a single parent, since it's a new experience for me. I'm sorry if the question offended someone.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Good point. I think somewhere I mentioned that if I were a single dad, and a woman didn't want to date me because I had a child at home, I wouldn't take that as a personal insult. I would, if I saw her out on a date next week with a guy who I knew was also a single dad.
But it's not a slight against me, it's a slight against the situation I chose to put myself in.
I'd actually thank her for not risking getting involved if she knew already she didn't want to be a step-mom someday.


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## SilentLoner (Jan 30, 2006)

I think certain people in this thread have some serious sensitivity issues. No comments were directed at them or their choices yet they feel the need to throw insults and accuse people of being ignorant when in reality they're expressing their PERSONAL choices that affect their own lives. I have some turnoffs I think people would find odd but guess what I have the right to have them. And just because some of you find the proposed scenario works to your advantage doesn't mean everyone will fit in your mold. Don't be obnoxious and act like you know it all - THATS a turnoff.

Getting back to the original question, would I date a single dad? I think I would take circumstances into account (is there shared custody, do the kids like me, etc) but I think I would be open to it. I kind of like the idea of being a stepmom.


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## TATA (Sep 18, 2008)

what an interesting topic, for a soon to be single mom... And for those of you who thinks that a woman still desires her ex... so not true... why would he be an ex in the first place? Marriage with kids is not dating, so if marriage broke it would be because of something MAJOR, not just little things people break up for during dating.

Honestly, for the single moms out there, I found it that it's easier to find a great guy with a kid than when you are not a mom, I would explain why, but afraid that will be too offensive for some of those who wouldn't date a single mom.

And I think I would date a single date, I mean who am I to discriminate? Also, I've always entartained the idea of adopting a child... so having a stepchild doesn't scare me or atleast I would like to think so


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## TATA (Sep 18, 2008)

SilentLoner said:


> I think certain people in this thread have some serious sensitivity issues. No comments were directed at them or their choices yet they feel the need to throw insults and accuse people of being ignorant when in reality they're expressing their PERSONAL choices that affect their own lives. I have some turnoffs I think people would find odd but guess what I have the right to have them. And just because some of you find the proposed scenario works to your advantage doesn't mean everyone will fit in your mold. Don't be obnoxious and act like you know it all - THATS a turnoff.
> 
> Getting back to the original question, would I date a single dad? I think I would take circumstances into account (is there shared custody, do the kids like me, etc) but I think I would be open to it. I kind of like the idea of being a stepmom.


Do we have any single dads here? Someone who actually lives with his child/children?


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## TATA (Sep 18, 2008)

rcapo89 said:


> I know this may sound morbid but if I ever dated a single parent, I would much rather her husband/boyfriend/significant other be deceased. It would make life much less coplicated.


Not really, as you will be looked at as a substitute for a father figure


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## laura024 (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd be okay with it if I really liked the guy and his child. He would have to be disconnected emotionally from his ex. I don't want to be thrown in the middle of anything.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Gloomy Grasshopper said:


> When I posted this thread, I had no idea I'd infuriate* a mob of angry women*. One angry woman is frightening enough.
> 
> But I wasn't biased in my question -- I didn't ask "would you date a single mom?", I asked "would you date a single parent?" -- I've yet to see an angry comment from a single dad.
> 
> I meant no harm by the question -- as I previously said, I wanted the insight of others when it comes to dating a single parent, since it's a new experience for me. I'm sorry if the question offended someone.


A "mob of angry women"....gee...how could anyone be offended by that?

People on this site (and I am now not speaking of the above quote, but rather in general) seem to perceive that if someone doesn't agree with other comments and posts an opposing viewpoint that they are "angry", or "attacking", it happens rather often on this site. I fail to see why people post topics and are seemingly shocked when they find that not everyone agrees with them or sees their point of view. That doesnt mean they are "angry"--they just dont agree.


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## Gloomy Grasshopper (Dec 20, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> A "mob of angry women"....gee...how could anyone be offended by that?
> 
> People on this site (and I am now not speaking of the above quote, but rather in general) seem to perceive that if someone doesn't agree with other comments and posts an opposing viewpoint that they are "angry", or "attacking", it happens rather often on this site. I fail to see why people post topics and are seemingly shocked when they find that not everyone agrees with them or sees their point of view. That doesnt mean they are "angry"--they just dont agree.


Actually, some of the women who disagreed did seem angry. No one disagreed with me -- as I said in one of my comments, I'm not against dating a woman with children.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Gloomy Grasshopper said:


> No one disagreed with me -- as I said in one of my comments, I'm not against dating a woman with children.


I thought the part where I wrote that I was "speaking in general and not about the above comment" might have been clear enough but I guess not. :stu


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## Gloomy Grasshopper (Dec 20, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> I thought the part where I wrote that I was "speaking in general and not about the above comment" might have been clear enough but I guess not. :stu


Your observation that people on this particular thread equate disagreement with anger came after my observation that the women who posted disagreements were angry, so it's natural to believe my comment lead you to post your observation.

Disagreement is natural and I don't equate it with anger -- I was just making that clear.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> A "mob of angry women"....gee...how could anyone be offended by that?
> 
> People on this site (and I am now not speaking of the above quote, but rather in general) seem to perceive that if someone doesn't agree with other comments and posts an opposing viewpoint that they are "angry", or "attacking", it happens rather often on this site. I fail to see why people post topics and are seemingly shocked when they find that not everyone agrees with them or sees their point of view. That doesnt mean they are "angry"--they just dont agree.


There were a few posts from single mom's who took offense to some posts and went ahead and said some mean-sounding things themselves. They certainly seemed pretty angry but online it can be hard to tell.
Pretty sure I saw :mum this face once or twice, which certainly seems to imply angry.

I don't understand how anyone on a forum could take any generalized statement personally but I'm pretty apathetic and don't care too much about anyone's opinion, although I respect their right to have it and voice it.


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## SilentLoner (Jan 30, 2006)

TATA said:


> Do we have any single dads here? Someone who actually lives with his child/children?


What does that have to do with anything? The question posed by the OP was hypothetical and was not restricted to single moms, it was single PARENTS.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Game 7 said:


> ......I don't understand how anyone on a forum could take any generalized statement personally but I'm pretty apathetic and don't care too much about anyone's opinion, although I respect their right to have it and voice it.


A bit off topic, I think when someone identifies himself as part of a group, and that group is disparaged or seems to be, it's not that strange to be irritated. Middle aged white men :um get a fair amount of grief and it sometimes bugs me. I realize it shouldn't because it's pointless, but still.

Oddly, if someone insults me directly it doesn't bother me, because it is personal and I get that and I respond, or not. However, ripping the category I belong to leaves me feeling unsure how to respond, without sounding defensive or whiney.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style. 

Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.

If she's a single mother because she divorced, this leads me to believe she's not marriage material. It also leads me to believe she's not mother material because her children suffered the fallout of divorce. Exceptions apply, but not making it in marriage is a really sore spot for me. I wouldn't date divorced women to begin with. Most single mothers just happen to be divorced. The only thing worst than a divorced "mother" or "father", is one who has children of wedlock, these are flat-out none starters. This is the worst possible scenario to raise children in and I'd only be making it worse for the child.

Widowers would be a different story. I wouldn't hold anything against them, but again I'd probably not date them out of respect for the children. Mothering and dating is fundamental conflict of interest. I wouldn't want the mother to ever put my interest over her children. At the same time, since it's not my child it'd be harder sacrifice loss of attention from my partner since the attention isn't being diverted to my own offspring.

For men or women whom just wanna "have relations" in spite of having children, I'd never date them. Because they flat-out don't care about their children. I consider imposing your sex life on your children to be child abuse. I will not commit to child abuse.

The only way I see dating single mothers working out is a) if they were widowed and b) if their children are so young that they don't take my presence as a threat. Even then I'd be on the fence, but this would have to be the starting scenario.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Oh, and by the way, I'm a single father and my SO is a single mom. Our kids are older, though still living with each of us, which actually complicates the "role" issue because the kids are so set. I wasn't offended by the question, but then there is a different standard for single moms, especially young moms, and most of the heat in this thread was directed at them. 

And for what it's worth, some of the women's responses involved name calling and accusations, which might resonably be thought to convey anger.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> ...


No grist for the mill here


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## Lithium4 (Nov 23, 2007)

WineKitty said:


> People on this site (and I am now not speaking of the above quote, but rather in general) seem to perceive that if someone doesn't agree with other comments and posts an opposing viewpoint that they are "angry", or "attacking", it happens rather often on this site. I fail to see why people post topics and are seemingly shocked when they find that not everyone agrees with them or sees their point of view. That doesnt mean they are "angry"--they just dont agree.


Thank you!


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## Jnmcda0 (Nov 28, 2003)

drealm said:


> I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.


Isn't there something to be said for women who want their children to have a father figure present in the home?



> If she's a single mother because she divorced, this leads me to believe she's not marriage material.


Perhaps she was young and naive and rushed into marriage. Perhaps her ex-husband became abusive. Perhaps one of them changed as a person and they could no longer agree. There are all kinds of reasons people get divorced. One-third of marriages end in divorce. Some people get divorced and then re-marry and have a great second marriage.

It is very difficult to raise a child as a single parent. I think whether the parent should date and possibly re-marry depends on the age of the kid. If the kid is old enough to understand the situation, I think the parent should be honest and find out what the kid's feelings are on the situation.


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## JFmtl (Dec 23, 2008)

Wtf, single mom should not date at all now??? I'm might be too idealistic, but even though having a kid means making huge sacrifices, I don't think closing the door to any love life should be one of them. I know that dealing with kids from a single mother might be a difficult thing (that would be one of the thing that would scare me) Last time I checked, mothers are still women, not some sacred untouchable mystical beings that are the sole property of their kids. If a wife has the time to love her husband, a single mother can surely manage to date and find another guy....

And if divorce women are not datable, what about unmarried women that have past failed serious relationships outside of marriage? by that logic, they are not marriage/serious relationship material either.... We all make mistakes, and learn from them.


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

I can completely understand why the SAS-ers that have children are angry over this thread.

I would date a man that has a kid. Someone having a child from a previous relationship, whether it was marriage or not, shouldn't define who the person truly is. If you personally do not want kids in the future, then don't date someone with kids. Also, because a woman has a kid doesn't mean she isn't allowed to ever meet a guy ever again. If the parent is responsible, they would take the dating slowly since there is someone else they have to consider.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> ...


:um yikes!

(yea yea just your opinion etc, but still :um)


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Given that I turn 37 at the end of April, lots of women in my age range are going to be single mothers and/or divorced. And their kids could potentially be near adulthood by this age.

I wouldn't rule it out, though it's not something I'd consider a plus either. I have no desire at this point to be a father figure, or whatever I'd be to her kids if such a relationship became serious.

Depending on how broadly you define "date," I may have technically dated a woman with kids from 1995-98. Her kids were marginally older than me and months after meeting her I found out that she's a grandmother. She claimed to be 35 when we first talked on the phone and I was 21. I met her the night before my 22nd birthday and she found it quite amusing that I failed to identify her as really being 45. After a while of her playing around with "what age am I really?" I demanded a drivers license if she didn't want me to cut her in half and count the rings.

Some replies have suggested that excluding women with kids from those one would date is discrimination. Well, yes, it is, but then there is endless discrimination in dating and women disseminate just as men do. Personal ads typically specify race -- they wouldn't if nobody cared. Women discriminate based on things like "he's fat" or "he's bald" or "he lives with his parents!" There isn't enough room for me to possibly list all the measures on which there is dating discrimination. The fact I said "measures" reminds me of another -- like "he's too short" or "she's too tall." Last fall a woman rejected me based on religion, or rather lack of it.

I can think of one woman who liked me and was an atheist, but she felt that a guy had to agree with her on basically everything. She was a vegan and quite anti-gun. I eat meat she thought my .357 revolver was a "shotgun." My libertarian views drove her nuts as she felt everyone had to be a raging liberal, which I clearly am not.

I don't demand that somebody agree with me on everything. The only woman I really loved went to church every Sunday -- shocking, ins't it? More common ground is certainly good, but it's not at all likely I'm going to find a female version of me.

Dating isn't a job and you can't complain to the EEOC.


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## Haydsmom2007 (Oct 16, 2009)

drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> ...


Wow. That's some opinion you have, there. I don't care about my son because I have a boyfriend. Who knew?

That is just "your opinion" but it's also extremely rude and offensive. I don't understand how you can say such mean things about women who work so hard to provide for their children. Putting quotation marks around the word "mother" ... what a dumb f*cking thing to say. You're whole response just blows my mind.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Pretty narrow minded view drealm, surely you can see the flaws in your argument?


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

Jnmcda0 said:


> Isn't there something to be said for women who want their children to have a father figure present in the home?


I've never heard of a single parent who's asked their child if they want a complete stranger off the street to take their biological father's presence. Children are rarely given the option to choose a new father. The first priority for most single parents whom date is fulfilling their own needs. If and when the strangers they date choose to be surrogate parents, it's purely accidental and usually intrusive for the children.



Jnmcda0 said:


> Perhaps she was young and naive and rushed into marriage. Perhaps her ex-husband became abusive. Perhaps one of them changed as a person and they could no longer agree. There are all kinds of reasons people get divorced. One-third of marriages end in divorce. Some people get divorced and then re-marry and have a great second marriage.


Exceptions do apply and they deserve to be treated differently. But your average, non exceptional, divorced person has common denominators that turn me off.



JFmtl said:


> Wtf, single mom should not date at all now??? I'm might be too idealistic, but even though having a kid means making huge sacrifices, I don't think closing the door to any love life should be one of them. I know that dealing with kids from a single mother might be a difficult thing (that would be one of the thing that would scare me) Last time I checked, mothers are still women, not some sacred untouchable mystical beings that are the sole property of their kids. If a wife has the time to love her husband, a single mother can surely manage to date and find another guy....


Single mothers can and do date. As do some single fathers live a playboy lifestyle. But it's a lie to say children approve of such life styles from their parents. If parents wanna live a lie, that's their deal.



JFmtl said:


> And if divorce women are not datable, what about unmarried women that have past failed serious relationships outside of marriage? by that logic, they are not marriage/serious relationship material either.... We all make mistakes, and learn from them.


There's a difference between marriage and long term unmarried relationships. Marriage involves vows, capital, and certain social contracts. Failure to adhere to marriage, is failure to reach those goals. Unmarried couples don't have marriage based goals to begin with, so it's not failure. I guess you could look at married and unmarried couples the same if an unmarried couple dated for 40 years, but that's rarely the case.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.


_I initially stopped reading there, but then people started replying to it so I re-read it again._



> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image.


_Dating, and bringing home random men all the time for sexual purposes are two completely different things. And even so, that would occur most likely after the child was asleep. I would agree having a different man every few weeks, consistently, for years, would be damaging to a child but that's not what we're talking about here...I don't think. _



> Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.


_By using a single mother for sex, in full view and knowledge of her child, sure. But dating her? Wouldn't you be showing her respect and love...two things children would want in a man dating their mother? _



> If she's a single mother because she divorced, this leads me to believe she's not marriage material.


_No one has said anything about marrying, and even so, that's a pretty negative viewpoint without any additional information._ 


> It also leads me to believe she's not mother material because her children suffered the fallout of divorce. Exceptions apply, but not making it in marriage is a really sore spot for me. I wouldn't date divorced women to begin with. Most single mothers just happen to be divorced. The only thing worst than a divorced "mother", is one who has children of wedlock, these are flat-out none starters. This is the worst possible scenario to raise children in and I'd only be making it worse for the child.


_You're certaintly entitled to feel how you feel, so I won't say much about it._


> Widowers would be a different story. I wouldn't hold anything against them, but again I'd probably not date them out of respect for the children. Mothering and dating is fundamental conflict of interest. I wouldn't want the mother to ever put my interest over her children. At the same time, since it's not my child it'd be harder sacrifice loss of attention from my partner since the attention isn't being diverted to my own offspring.


_Part of being a mother is making sure you take time for yourself. Motherhood is not a sprint, it's a marathon, and you need to make sure you attend to your own wants and needs, in order to be well enough to take on the task of raising kids on your own. Being a mother doesn't make you into a super-human, especially a single mom..."they" are humans too. I don't see how dating is taking away from raising children. Going out gives them time away from the mother, which they need, and it gives the mother time away as well. It's healthy..._


> For men or women whom just wanna "have relations" in spite of having children, I'd never date them. Because they flat-out don't care about their children. I consider imposing your sex life on your children to be child abuse. I will not commit to child abuse.


_Those people don't wanna date, so you likely wouldn't be able to date them anyways. If all they want is sex, that's not dating and developing a relationship._



> The only way I see dating single mothers working out is a) if they were widowed and b) if their children are so young that they don't take my presence as a threat. Even then I'd be on the fence, but this would have to be the starting scenario.


_Understandable._


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

Haydsmom2007 said:


> Wow. That's some opinion you have, there. I don't care about my son because I have a boyfriend. Who knew?
> 
> That is just "your opinion" but it's also extremely rude and offensive. I don't understand how you can say such mean things about women who work so hard to provide for their children. Putting quotation marks around the word "mother" ... what a dumb f*cking thing to say. You're whole response just blows my mind.


I don't know you, your son or your boyfriend. I have no right or way to judge your particular circumstance. From what you've said in this thread, I take it you do care about your son.

I don't think my opinion is rude or offensive because the central point of my opinion is children come first. If it's rude or offensive to say children come first, then I'm guilty.

My argument is not gender based. I went back, edited my post, and inserted the word "father" with quotations. I hold both sexes equally accountable. If I'm being mean, then I'm being mean to both sexes.


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

TATA said:


> And for those of you who thinks that a woman still desires her ex... so not true... why would he be an ex in the first place? Marriage with kids is not dating, so if marriage broke it would be because of something MAJOR, not just little things people break up for during dating.


I agree. I HATE my ex husband, I can't even stand the sight of him now. I don't even want him near my daughter.


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> ...


I hope you were joking in all that you said because if not, this is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on here.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

Game 7 said:


> _Part of being a mother is making sure you take time for yourself. Motherhood is not a sprint, it's a marathon, and you need to make sure you attend to your own wants and needs, in order to be well enough to take on the task of raising kids on your own. Being a mother doesn't make you into a super-human, especially a single mom..."they" are humans too. I don't see how dating is taking away from raising children. Going out gives them time away from the mother, which they need, and it gives the mother time away as well. It's healthy..._


This is a good point. I won't go so far as to say I endorse lots of extracurricular activities for single fathers or mothers, but you're right, rest from parenting is essential. I think there's better and worst outlets for resting.


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## Game 7 (Dec 23, 2009)

drealm said:


> This is a good point. I won't go so far as to say I endorse lots of extracurricular activities for single fathers or mothers, but you're right, rest from parenting is essential. I think there's better and worst outlets for resting.


What's better than trying to find someone who will love you, and your child(ren)? I can't think of anything, except maybe season tickets behind home plate at Fenway Park.


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## Shauna The Dead (Jun 16, 2005)

drealm said:


> I don't know you, your son or your boyfriend. I have no right or way to judge your particular circumstance. From what you've said in this thread, I take it you do care about your son.
> 
> I don't think my opinion is rude or offensive because the central point of my opinion is children come first. If it's rude or offensive to say children come first, then I'm guilty.
> 
> My argument is not gender based. I went back, edited my post, and inserted the word "father" with quotations. I hold both sexes equally accountable. If I'm being mean, then I'm being mean to both sexes.


Children should come first, obviously. But what YOU were saying is that if you're a single mother then you shouldn't have a life of your own(in that you shouldnt ever date again), and what you said about divorce was ignorant too...my ex husband was abusive(otherwise I'd still be with him)...so you think I should have stayed with him even though he would have eventually tried to kill me and my child? I guess you think she would have been better off living in a situation like that?? Being yelled at every day over nothing and physically abused?


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

Shauna The Dead said:


> I hope you were joking in all that you said because if not, this is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on here.


No I'm not joking. I wouldn't of taken the time to thoughtfully read the thread, clearly state my opinions, only to have my own post be called dumb.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

Shauna The Dead said:


> Children should come first, obviously. But what YOU were saying is that if you're a single mother then you shouldn't have a life of your own(in that you shouldnt ever date again), and what you said about divorce was ignorant too...my ex husband was abusive(otherwise I'd still be with him)...so you think I should have stayed with him even though he would have eventually tried to kill me and my child? I guess you think she would have been better off living in a situation like that?? Being yelled at every day over nothing and physically abused?


There's a fundamental conflict of interest. There's only 24 hours in a day. Between sleeping, work and school there's even less. If you add the fact that single fathers or mothers don't have a partner to share household duties, this leaves little "free time". I don't see how anyone could date let alone have a side relationship with so little "free time", without dating competing for time and emotional coverage with their children. I guess if the single parent was retired, it'd be easier. But I'm referring to you're average single parent with very limited resources. "Not having a life" is a relative, subjective opinion.

What I said about divorce was not ignorant. Most divorces have common denominators. The main being bad dating habits. I want nothing to do with bad dating habits. I clearly said:



> *Exceptions* apply, but not making it in marriage is a really sore spot for me.





> *Exceptions* *do apply and they deserve to be treated differently*. But your average, *non exceptional*, divorced person has common denominators that turn me off.


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## pollster (Oct 4, 2009)

Ugh. I don't know why I do this. I tried hard not to respond to this post, but am going to anyway....



drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure...


Motherhood and having a relationship are not mutually exlusive. (It took having a relationship of some kind to become a mother in the first place. Even if only a short-lived one.)



> I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership.


You make it sound so seedy and disgusting. Dating doesn't have to be that way. A single parent isn't necessarily taking home man/woman after man/woman and ****ting it up. I don't know if you have some personal experience with a single mother dating, but your viewpoint of dating seems "interesting" to me. (Albeit, I respect your right to your opinions.)



> Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.


Children also can benefit from seeing their parents (single or otherwise) in healthy relationships with others. Please note that I used the word healthy, and I'm not talking about some "hooker" sleeping with a different man everynight, which is what you seem to imply with your original post.

Take my own experience: My parents separated when I was 6 years old. My father was never far away - he's been the best "divorced" parent ever. But my mother never re-entered the dating scene and has been alone ever since. That's A LONG time to be alone. (She has her reasons. Whatever.) I personally feel that growing up in a single parent household where my mother did not have any romantic/sexual relations with another man has only been a detriment to me and my development psychologically, in terms of the world of relationships. Not being able to see/experience first hand two people sharing their lives together and being romantically involved, I think that is too bad. I think children can benefit from that - when we are talking about healthy relationships of course - in terms of their own personal development and comfort level about intimacy etc.



> If she's a single mother because she divorced, this leads me to believe she's not marriage material. It also leads me to believe she's not mother material because her children suffered the fallout of divorce.


Why are you blaming the mother? I realize that you may also be talking about fathers too, but then why are you blaming the father?

There are lots of reasons for divorce -- adultry (by one or both people), too much stress that leads to a relationship falling apart (financial, etc.), people simply falling out of love, etc. You make it sound like only one party is to blame.

My mother is also the best mother in the world - and she's divorced. I frankly take some offense that you would suggest divorced parents cannot be good parents due to divorce. But whatever. It's your personal opinion and you have your right to it.



> Exceptions apply, but not making it in marriage is a really sore spot for me.


For your sake, I hope you never get married and fail at it, because it sounds like you'll be alone forever if you ever divorce from a marriage, given how you feel about divorced people.



> For men or women whom just wanna "have relations" in spite of having children, I'd never date them. Because they flat-out don't care about their children. I consider imposing your sex life on your children to be child abuse. I will not commit to child abuse.


If you are talking about people being ****ty and sleeping around, yes I can see how that kind of lifestyle could be hard on children. However, if you are talking about a healthy sexual lifestyle, there is nothing wrong with that. How do you think children learn to have healthy sexual lifestyles of their own?



> The only way I see dating single mothers working out is a) if they were widowed and b) if their children are so young that they don't take my presence as a threat. Even then I'd be on the fence, but this would have to be the starting scenario.


For the sake of single mothers out there (and their children), please don't date them. 

Okay, I'm sure I've been offensive enough for one night.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

pollster said:


> Why are you blaming the mother? *I realize that you may also be talking about fathers too*, but then why are you blaming the father?


Correct, I blame both the *father* and the *mother*.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

Ospi said:


> Pretty narrow minded view drealm, surely you can see the flaws in your argument?


My opinions aren't an argument, they're beliefs. There's no such thing as flawed beliefs.


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## izzy (Dec 18, 2009)

"No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style. 

Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic."

I understand that a good parent makes sacrifices for their children and must not be selfish... but I don't understand why they have to be a saint. Parents are people too and deserve to be happy, as long as they continue to make their children their priority.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

pollster said:


> Children also can benefit from seeing their parents (single or otherwise) in healthy relationships with others. Please note that I used the word healthy, and I'm not talking about some "hooker" sleeping with a different man everynight, which is what you seem to imply with your original post.
> 
> Take my own experience: My parents separated when I was 6 years old. My father was never far away - he's been the best "divorced" parent ever. But my mother never re-entered the dating scene and has been alone ever since. That's A LONG time to be alone. (She has her reasons. Whatever.) I personally feel that growing up in a single parent household where my mother did not have any romantic/sexual relations with another man has only been a detriment to me and my development psychologically, in terms of the world of relationships. Not being able to see/experience first hand two people sharing their lives together and being romantically involved, I think that is too bad. I think children can benefit from that - when we are talking about healthy relationships of course - in terms of their own personal development and comfort level about intimacy etc.


absolutely. when my parents got divorced at age 7, my mum became the primary caregiver for my brother and i and pretty early on after my dad lived on his own he started dating/meeting women, but it took my mum many many years to start, until i was in my late teens. i was very glad that she did because i feel like she was neglecting that side of her and that part of her life for a long time and she deserves it just as much as everyone else.
interestingly enough, she's also never talked to me about sex/relationships other than the most basic thing(s) (e.g. birth control), later than i think it should have been. i really have barely learned anything from her. because my dad is more open his relationships (obv not about any sleeping around, he'd keep that far from his kids when we were young), a lot of what i've learned is from being around him and his girlfriend (or ex's), or him telling us about random details about when my parents were dating or had just gotten married. so i am glad for that as it at least formed 'building blocks' in my head at the time regarding romance/dating/relationships/boyfriends.
a lot of it ended up as "what not to do..." but there were positive aspects about the relationships that i've seen and learned from too.

i wholeheartedly agree that growing up and seeing your parents in relationships (whether it's with each other or not) is very important as to how you end up viewing relationships, how you are in them, how you treat your s/o, etc when you get older. i've learned probably more from the negative stuff than the positive, but in the end i've managed to process it so that i have ended up with a positive light for relationships which i am glad for.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

sure! I'd date several parents!

someone has already done this joke, havent' they - or am I the only one cornball enough?


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## TheJoker (Dec 24, 2009)

Wat the heck is DILLIGAF? No really... I have no idea...


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

i looked it up on urban dictionary: Does It Look Like I Give A ****


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Shauna The Dead said:


> I hope you were joking in all that you said because if not, this is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on here.


Agreed.


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## TheJoker (Dec 24, 2009)

nothing to fear said:


> i looked it up on urban dictionary: Does It Look Like I Give A ****


Thx

$25 this thread gets locked in 48 hours


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

TheJoker said:


> Thx
> 
> $25 this thread gets locked in 48 hours


I will take that bet. I give it until tomorrow midday! :lol


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Oh and my first time posting this:

In Before Lock!!! :b


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## TRENNER (Sep 21, 2009)

Before I was married, one factor why I didn't date single moms was being a bit intimidated. I felt they were much more ahead in their lives than I was.

I never felt that being a single mom is bad. I just felt I wasn't up to handling a relationship with one.

Now, being age 46 and finally having been married, although still childless,I no longer feel that single moms are way ahead of me in life. If I outlive my wife, I would be quite open to dating women who have experienced motherhood. Indeed, when I'm a widower, I would likely be dating single grandmothers.


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## Cruiser (Jan 9, 2010)

leonardess said:


> sure! I'd date several parents!
> 
> someone has already done this joke, havent' they - or am I the only one cornball enough?


LMAO I a cornball enough to catch it too


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## TATA (Sep 18, 2008)

SilentLoner said:


> What does that have to do with anything? The question posed by the OP was hypothetical and was not restricted to single moms, it was single PARENTS.


It has to do with my own curiousity.


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## TATA (Sep 18, 2008)

drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> ...


yeah well it's your opinion. But when may be you ll become a parent you might change your view on this subject, as you ll find out that you don't become a saint once you become a parent. And you'll still want to have sex, be happy and be selfish from time to time...


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## CarlitoBrigante (Oct 29, 2006)

Maybe.

Depends on the individual. I can't imagine not dating an individual I was really interested and was otherwise a good match for me simply because she had a child. If she had more than one child, then I don't know.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

No, it would be way to complicated. I can barely figure out my own life.

(There are a lot of other reasons, but I'll leave it at that)


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

i would if it felt right.


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## Cedilla (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't think that I would at this stage of my life. I personally don't want to even think about having children for several more years at least. So I don't think I would want to jump into a relationship where I would be thrust into a fatherly role. If it were just a one night stand I couldn't care less how many kids they have, but I don't think there are too many single moms trolling for casual sex.


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## path0gen (Jun 28, 2006)

No. I've tried this twice. The first time, I dated a raging lunatic of a woman, but didn't realize what I'd gotten myself into until many months later. The second was protective of her children in a super unhealthy sort of way. We could never go out because she refused to use a babysitter she hadn't known for 10+ years. In my experience, it's never a good idea unless you have children of your own. It's not that I have a difficult time dealing with children. It's just that having them around really influences how successful you can be at forming a relationship with their parents. No excursions can be planned without considering the kids. And then there's the "You're not my father/mother" situations you have to deal with. 

It's a little disappointing really because there are so many genuinely good, interesting, awesome single parents out there that would make great partners. Unfortunately, the path they've chosen will inevitably become your own path if you choose to become seriously involved. And often that means ditching any extensive recreational adventures that a single person would be able to participate in.


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## path0gen (Jun 28, 2006)

drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.
> 
> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> ...


Wow. I don't know if you've made any long-term career decisions yet but...I hear the Catholic church is always looking for some very old-fashioned, highly devout and extremely chaste priests to pass judgement on people.


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## TATA (Sep 18, 2008)

path0gen said:


> Wow. I don't know if you've made any long-term career decisions yet but...I hear the Catholic church is always looking for some very old-fashioned, highly devout and extremely chaste priests to pass judgement on people.


:clap


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

path0gen said:


> Wow. I don't know if you've made any long-term career decisions yet but...I hear the Catholic church is always looking for some very old-fashioned, highly devout and extremely chaste priests to pass judgement on people.


I'm not religious and I haven't passed judgment on anyone.


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## path0gen (Jun 28, 2006)

drealm said:


> I'm not religious and I haven't passed judgment on anyone.


Ok...

Originally Posted by *drealm* 



> If she's a single mother because she divorced, this leads me to believe she's not marriage material. It also leads me to believe she's not mother material because her children suffered the fallout of divorce. Exceptions apply, but not making it in marriage is a really sore spot for me. I wouldn't date divorced women to begin with. Most single mothers just happen to be divorced. The only thing worst than a divorced "mother" or "father", is one who has children of wedlock, these are flat-out none starters. This is the worst possible scenario to raise children in and I'd only be making it worse for the child.





> For men or women whom just wanna "have relations" in spite of having children, I'd never date them. Because they flat-out don't care about their children. I consider imposing your sex life on your children to be child abuse. I will not commit to child abuse.


So divorced women who want to have sex are, in your own words, "not marriage or mother material", "non-starters who neglect their children for personal gain" and are guilty of child abuse. Sounds pretty judgemental to me.

And you have to be somewhat religious to have such a high regard for sanctity of marriage in the first place. Otherwise, you'd be looking at it from a purely political standpoint, which you obviously are not. Your opinions leave no room for human error. It's like...you either get married and stay together until you die or you're a worthless human being. Even if your husband/wife abuses you or guns down a bowling alley full of patrons or because you simply don't have feelings for him anymore. You would simply have people suffer or lose your respect.

God forbid you have a child during that short-lived union. Then you're not only evil for your inability to make the marriage work but you're also a failure as a mother because even the three prescription anti-depressant cocktail you've been taking for two years wasn't enough to make you love the person you're with. You took your (non-religious) vows and you either stick with them or live in shame. Sexless shame.

Hey, you're entitled to your own opinion and all but are you at all open to the idea that not everyone was meant to be together? And that is possibly takes a little trial and error to figure out who you want to be with? That, however careful you are, pregnancies occur and need to be handled accordingly? Or are you just a perfect, faultless human being that can somehow assure me your future wife and children would never, ever even think about leaving you, regardless of how you treat them.


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## justpassinby (Oct 21, 2008)

I'm not sure you have to be religious to know dating someone who is a single parent might have some problems. Then their problems become yours, and no one wants extra problems. Thats just common sense.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

path0gen said:


> So divorced women who want to have sex are, in your own words, "not marriage or mother material", "non-starters who neglect their children for personal gain" and are guilty of child abuse. Sounds pretty judgemental to me.


I've never once personally judged anyone here or a hypothetical lifestyle. Judging involves incriminating and punishing, neither of which I've done. Observations are not judgments. Forming observations into facts are not judgments. And using facts to weigh my personal decisions are not judgments. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in assuming authority over others to doll out "punishments" metaphorically or otherwise. I flat out don't care what other people do. Other people are not my responsibility.



path0gen said:


> And you have to be somewhat religious to have such a high regard for sanctity of marriage in the first place. Otherwise, you'd be looking at it from a purely political standpoint, which you obviously are not. Your opinions leave no room for human error. It's like...you either get married and stay together until you die or you're a worthless human being. Even if your husband/wife abuses you or guns down a bowling alley full of patrons or because you simply don't have feelings for him anymore. You would simply have people suffer or lose your respect.


I'm flat out not religious. It's news to me that you're required to worship some faith to be married. If religion is required for marriage then I guess I won't be able to marry.

You're right, marriage doesn't leave room for error, courtship does. Courtship precedes marriage.

I don't understand why you base concerns on highly exceptional outcomes. By this same logic, everything is equally dangerous. I acknowledge exceptions and feel they deserve special treatment, but an exception isn't a pattern or a norm.



path0gen said:


> God forbid you have a child during that short-lived union. Then you're not only evil for your inability to make the marriage work but you're also a failure as a mother because even the three prescription anti-depressant cocktail you've been taking for two years wasn't enough to make you love the person you're with. You took your (non-religious) vows and you either stick with them or live in shame. Sexless shame.


You make it sound like there's no recorded incident in history of marriage ever being achieved. Marriage isn't rocket science or an isolated phenomena. We're not making history here. Statistically, historically and culturally, marriage has always been a common feat, performed by common people whom weren't exceptional. With that said, yes you're correct. If a person's goal is to marry only once, then they'll have to live with their own self-imposed criticism should they fail to reach their goal.



path0gen said:


> Hey, you're entitled to your own opinion and all but are you at all open to the idea that not everyone was meant to be together? And that is possibly takes a little trial and error to figure out who you want to be with? That, however careful you are, pregnancies occur and need to be handled accordingly? Or are you just a perfect, faultless human being that can somehow assure me your future wife and children would never, ever even think about leaving you, regardless of how you treat them.


I don't see how courtship contradicts "trial and error" or "figuring out whom you want to be with". Courtship allows testing multiple partners, requires no commitments, allows you to quit whenever and precedes marriage.

Again, basing opinions on highly exceptional scenarios makes everything sound equally dangerous. Why bother having any opinion at all if it rests on exceptions?

No I'm not faultless. I can't assure you, let alone myself, of anything in my future.


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## CarlitoBrigante (Oct 29, 2006)

justpassinby said:


> I'm not sure you have to be religious to know dating someone who is a single parent might have some problems. Then their problems become yours, and no one wants extra problems. Thats just common sense.


"Might" is an awfully broad term. Dating anyone "might" bring you extra problems. Maybe the other parent died. Maybe they got along great but just separated amicably. Being a single parent isn't an indication of anything except that a relationship didn't work out. There are countless stories of parents who stay together for the kids and they probably shouldn't, becuase they create a volatile environment.

There are single people without kids with issues. Obviously, dating a single parent has its own sets of obstacles and issues to deal with, but I wouldn't say they are "problems". Just issues unique to the situation.



drealm said:


> No, I wouldn't date single mothers. Mostly because I respect their children. Dating when you have children comes off as selfish and destructive. I don't think it's good or fair to expose children to your dating life style.


So if someone has a kid at the age of 30, then divorces or splits from their other half at 35... they shouldn't meet other people and date, even if they're bored and lonely, because its detrimental to the kid? Maybe I'm just guessing here, but I'd like to think there have been several thousand happy families with step parents .... surely dating isn't any more detrimental to the child than having a parent who's lonely and withholding their desire to date because of some absurd belief that it would be detrimental to their child?



> Motherhood is sacred and pure, I don't see how bringing home random men doesn't destroy this image. Nor do I see how single fathers being playboys doesn't make children lose respect for their leadership. Children aren't dumb, they understand when you're having "relations". And it's not a pleasant thought to know your parent is messing around with strangers. You feel violated and alienated. By dating single mothers, I'd be directly contributing to this epidemic.
> 
> If she's a single mother because she divorced, this leads me to believe she's not marriage material. It also leads me to believe she's not mother material because her children suffered the fallout of divorce. Exceptions apply, but not making it in marriage is a really sore spot for me. I wouldn't date divorced women to begin with. Most single mothers just happen to be divorced. The only thing worst than a divorced "mother" or "father", is one who has children of wedlock, these are flat-out none starters. This is the worst possible scenario to raise children in and I'd only be making it worse for the child.
> 
> ...


Sorry man, I'm going to have to agree that this sounds judgmental. "Marriage material" is another broad term that really isn't fair to paint onto a single parent or divorced woman (or man). Maybe two people made a mistake of entering marriage when they didn't truly know each other. It doesn't make them bad people or "not marriage material", it means they made a mistake. Sure, I'm sure there are people who would NOT make good husbands or wives regardless, but being a single parent is hardly indicative of that.

I don't see how mothering and dating is any more of a conflict of interest than a mother who likes to go skiing with her friends, go scrapbooking or pursuing any other hobby or interest. You're essentially saying a mother who dates is neglecting her child. That seems strange to me. One night a week with grandparents while the mother goes on a date isn't going to harm the child.

Let's not forget it takes two to make a marriage work. What if a woman was a saint and her husband ended up cheating on her or committing some stupid (or heinous) crime and went to prison? She should stay in the marriage? She shouldn't divorce and move on with her life, and perhaps try to find a good man that will value her (and her child)?

That was a bizarre post to me.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

CarlitoBrigante said:


> So if someone has a kid at the age of 30, then divorces or splits from their other half at 35... they shouldn't meet other people and date, even if they're bored and lonely, because its detrimental to the kid? Maybe I'm just guessing here, but I'd like to think there have been several thousand happy families with step parents .... surely dating isn't any more detrimental to the child than having a parent who's lonely and withholding their desire to date because of some absurd belief that it would be detrimental to their child?


People can do whatever they want, I don't care.

There's many "bored and lonely" things. If "fun" and "convenience" were the end all, families wouldn't exist. I wouldn't be surprised if due to being "bored and lonely", these same children put their parents in state run nursing homes when the tables are turned.

Yes I do think dating is detrimental to children. But if I wanted to launch a definitive inquiry on the subject, I'd ask the children, not the parents. Children have everything to lose, parents have everything to gain. It's dishonest to rely on opinions from parties whom stand to prosper.

But I won't sit here and prove dating is bad, that's irrelevant.



CarlitoBrigante said:


> Sorry man, I'm going to have to agree that this sounds judgmental. "Marriage material" is another broad term that really isn't fair to paint onto a single parent or divorced woman (or man). Maybe two people made a mistake of entering marriage when they didn't truly know each other. It doesn't make them bad people or "not marriage material", it means they made a mistake. Sure, I'm sure there are people who would NOT make good husbands or wives regardless, but being a single parent is hardly indicative of that.


I outright refuse to be anyone's judge. Nor will I be anyone's confessor. I do not care about anyone's lifestyle decision. I reject your offer to judge people, it's not my responsibility and I will never take on such a burden. If people want a judge or confessor they can seek out a church or their own parents council, but not me.

Marriage material isn't a fair term? What do you call someone who doesn't succeed at marriage then? A runner up? Second place? Bronze medal? Might as well double speak "marriage" out of human language all together. I never said single parents were bad, just that divorce's and divorcee's aren't marriage material.



CarlitoBrigante said:


> I don't see how mothering and dating is any more of a conflict of interest than a mother who likes to go skiing with her friends, go scrapbooking or pursuing any other hobby or interest. You're essentially saying a mother who dates is neglecting her child. That seems strange to me. One night a week with grandparents while the mother goes on a date isn't going to harm the child.


I agree other extra curricular activities can be just as bad. Dating differs because it's an intimate relationship. Just as friends are different from mates, dating is different from socializing. If platonic socializing was the same, no one would date. Yes I do think dating is child neglect, whether it's intentional or not is a different question.



CarlitoBrigante said:


> Let's not forget it takes two to make a marriage work. What if a woman was a saint and her husband ended up cheating on her or committing some stupid (or heinous) crime and went to prison? She should stay in the marriage? She shouldn't divorce and move on with her life, and perhaps try to find a good man that will value her (and her child)?


Who cares about exceptions? It's intellectually dishonest and fear mongering to cite extreme exceptions in the face of overwhelmingly universal norms that are completely opposite. Exceptions are not norms. There's absolutely no point holding any opinion whatsoever if you evaluate norms by exceptions.


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## CarlitoBrigante (Oct 29, 2006)

drealm said:


> Who cares about exceptions? It's intellectually dishonest and fear mongering to cite extreme exceptions in the face of overwhelmingly universal norms that are completely opposite. Exceptions are not norms. There's absolutely no point holding any opinion whatsoever if you evaluate norms by exceptions.


I care about exceptions. I care about people's unique circumstances. I know that you can't paint everyone with the same brush. No, exceptions are not norms, but what is the norm with divorced parents? Or single parents? What are these "universal norms" that you speak of? That a divorced mother who resumes dating is bringing home a different man each night while her children starve? Of course, that's not what you said, but since you aren't saying why you think dating is child neglect or why a divorced person is not marriage material, then all I can do is assume what the reasoning beneath your argument is.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

@CarlitoBrigante

I've indirectly derailed the thread at this point. So I'm just gonna opt out. If you'd like to continue, PM's are available.


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## path0gen (Jun 28, 2006)

drealm said:


> @CarlitoBrigante
> 
> I've indirectly derailed the thread at this point. So I'm just gonna opt out. If you'd like to continue, PM's are available.


I don't really see it as a derailing, just an exploration of one poster's opinions. Yours just happen to appear so adamant and narrow-minded that they've attracted some negative attention. I didn't reply to your last response because it's obvious that we just don't "get" one another and your elaborations, especially as they pertain to the courtship process, well, they don't do much for me except to reinforce my interpretation of your original opinions.

We can continue our thread in PMs if you'd like also but I can promise you that I'll never conform to or understand the generalizations you use when it comes to unsuccessful relationships and I highly doubt I'll be able to convince you that divorced people and single parents are still quality human beings even in situations where a ten year courtship resulted in a six month failed marriage. There are simply too many variables to come to the conclusions you have based on whether marriage vows were successfully upheld.

On the subject of marriage, we might actually have some things to talk about. You don't need to subscribe to any particular faith to wed but you should at least acknowledge the roots of the ceremony and stop looking at is as though it's some sort of contract. Vows including terms such as "Til death do us part" would be better replaced with something along the lines of "For so long as our resolve binds us together". As someone who has acknowledged uncertainty about his own future, you might want to consider abandoning restrictive thought perimeters and allow yourself to grow.


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## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

path0gen said:


> I don't really see it as a derailing, just an exploration of one poster's opinions. Yours just happen to appear so adamant and narrow-minded that they've attracted some negative attention. I didn't reply to your last response because it's obvious that we just don't "get" one another and your elaborations, especially as they pertain to the courtship process, well, they don't do much for me except to reinforce my interpretation of your original opinions.
> 
> We can continue our thread in PMs if you'd like also but I can promise you that I'll never conform to or understand the generalizations you use when it comes to unsuccessful relationships and I highly doubt I'll be able to convince you that divorced people and single parents are still quality human beings even in situations where a ten year courtship resulted in a six month failed marriage. There are simply too many variables to come to the conclusions you have based on whether marriage vows were successfully upheld.
> 
> On the subject of marriage, we might actually have some things to talk about. You don't need to subscribe to any particular faith to wed but you should at least acknowledge the roots of the ceremony and stop looking at is as though it's some sort of contract. Vows including terms such as "Til death do us part" would be better replaced with something along the lines of "For so long as our resolve binds us together". As someone who has acknowledged uncertainty about his own future, you might want to consider abandoning restrictive thought perimeters and allow yourself to grow.


The traditional marriage vows are part of medieval liturgy, translated by the Anglicans in the Book of Common Prayer. Marriage is thought of as a sacred way of transferring grace, so it makes a lot of sense that a Christian religious marriage would be a one time only deal. You can't undo the bestowal of God's grace.

But I do think it's very weird that these traditional Catholic/Anglican vows are used so commonly, even in non-religious marriages. The vows imply the old rule that you do not get divorced ever. But that isn't reality anymore.

My mother divorced my father when I was seven. She dated and remarried. And it had no effect on my perception of motherhood or anything ridiculous like that. If anything, I think seeing my mother move on from her first marriage presented a much more positive role model in my life than her staying alone or, even worse, staying married for my sake would have done.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

No.

People bring along more than enough emotional baggage to a relationship as it is. The only way I would even think about it is if the child's father is dead and buried, so I know that he and the mother won't have any residual feelings to complicate things, and so that I can raise the kid as my own, and not always have to be in second place to the kid's douchebag biological father.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

Akane said:


> I was actually going to try to find a guy with some kids. *I don't want to have any and it's hard to find someone who shares that sentiment especially while in your early 20s.*


Are you kidding me? Practically NO girl I know wants kids.


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## CarlitoBrigante (Oct 29, 2006)

Witan said:


> No.
> 
> People bring along more than enough emotional baggage to a relationship as it is. The only way I would even think about it is if the child's father is dead and buried, so I know that he and the mother won't have any residual feelings to complicate things, and so that I can raise the kid as my own, and not always have to be in second place to the kid's douchebag biological father.


So you would date a single parent if the father was out of the kids life?

What about a kid who has a nice father, a good person who gets along with the mother, but isn't, as you put it, a "douchebag"?

I get people not wanting the responsibility and emotional burden of raising or helping to raise someone else's child, but some of the things I'm reading in here are strange.


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## Witan (Jun 13, 2009)

CarlitoBrigante said:


> So you would date a single parent if the father was out of the kids life?
> 
> What about a kid who has a nice father, a good person who gets along with the mother, but isn't, as you put it, a "douchebag"?
> 
> I get people not wanting the responsibility and emotional burden of raising or helping to raise someone else's child, but some of the things I'm reading in here are strange.


If I were to consider dating a single mother, I'd want the child's dad out of the picture for good, dead and gone. I don't want even the *possibility* of any residual feelings, considering the father will be around regularly to visit the child. I don't want to feel like a "third wheel" whenever the father comes to visit. I don't want to care for and love a child and then have the stroke of a judge's pen at a custody hearing rip that child out of my life in an instant. If I date a single mother, I would want to adopt the kid as my own, not be a "second class" father. Selfish? Maybe. But that's me.

And in any case, I really don't need to justify my opinion to you or anyone.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

I only go for married parents.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

Kind of glad this thread has cooled down a little from its remnants..


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Only answer op havent read the whole thread. 

I would date a single parent. If there are feelings for the person then her having a child wont change that. In this day and age, people are out of relationships too easily. Which leads to a lot of single parents, marriage breakups and so on. Dont judge people because of there past. There may have been good reason for the break up. That child could do with a positive role model as well


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

I have dated a lass who had a kid. He wasn't even two. The kid was great, no problem. It never bothered me in the slightest.

I think she missed the freedom though, I wouldn't say she broke up then got with me straight away but it was pretty soon. I think she wanted to play the scene, ***** about or whatever I guess. Though for my part I was very into her and probably over bearing in wanting to be with her all the time.


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## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

A girl with a kid is an automatic deal breaker for me.


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

Matt Damon seems like a solid dude and he married a single women with a child???


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