# guys, please stop erasing women with SA's experiences



## regimes

i've seen a lot of dudes on this forum say "girls with SA can get dates anyway cause they don't have to work up the nerve to ask guys out" or things along that line and it's just plain harmful to girls with SA. even if gender roles impact how we interact, girls with SA suffer with relationship problems and anxieties too, and saying that guys have it harder is just erasing our experiences. i mean, how many ladies on this forum have been well into their twenties before even kissing anyone? went through high school and college feeling defunct, broken and lonely? how many ladies still haven't had relationships? 

not every woman gets pursued and it hurts our feelings when dudes say that every woman does, because then we have to wonder "well what's wrong with me that i don't get pursued/hit on/flirted with?" and you know how SA can take that and make a mountain out of an anthill. i understand that having SA is rough, it makes certain things seem IMPOSSIBLE but it's not a competition and you have no idea who you might hurt (who, having SA, may not speak up about it).

i'm just saying, even if you don't like me (and i know some dudes on this forum don't) at least think about the other chicks with SA.


----------



## Charmeleon

As long as there are bitter, horny, whiny crybaby virgin sas men it will never stop


----------



## gopherinferno




----------



## Wings of Amnesty

Ah **** it, I don't think you understood my post but whatever, I don't feel like getting into a fight or making people upset. That whole thread is getting deleted anyway because the OP asked 'who has it easier', whenever a moderator logs in.


----------



## Gojira

RadnessaurousRex said:


> As long as there are bitter, horny, whiny crybaby virgin sas men it will never stop


Says the concert dinosaur who self described doesn't have SA.


----------



## Gojira

Ok, most.

It can be for all practical purposes true, and so can your experiences too.


----------



## nothing else

True story.


----------



## alienbird

I agree. It makes me feel worse about myself when they talk about how easy it is for women to get relationships. And they say all attractive women have relationships, so it's like... oh so I'm ugly and undesirable. That is what they are implying. It reaffirms my fears. I don't like when my problems are belittled either. My anxiety is severe, and my suffering is very real. It makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for the men on here, although I know not all of them are like that.


----------



## gopherinferno

RadnessaurousRex said:


> As long as there are bitter, horny, whiny crybaby virgin sas men it will never stop





Gojira said:


> Says the concert dinosaur who self described doesn't have SA.


im gonna lock yall in a room together until one of you kills each other or you fall in love ^-^


----------



## Charmeleon

Gojira said:


> Says the concert dinosaur who self described doesn't have SA.


I don't recall ever saying I don't have sa.

What's with the high fashion hipster llama tho


----------



## gopherinferno

in all seriousness, though, i feel so terrible for girls who actually take this kind of thing seriously. i feel bad for anyone who can actually get their feelings hurt by dbags on this website or anywhere else. i have no respect for anyone who thinks like this. it doesn't bother me what they think at all. but a lot of people get their feelings hurt and feel all ashamed and itchy and sticky and i hate that.


----------



## Gojira

gopherinferno said:


> im gonna lock yall in a room together until one of you kills each other or you fall in love ^-^


Deal.

Minus the love, and only if you are the girl that holds up the "Round 1,2,3" signs while wearing a gopher mascot outfit.


----------



## gopherinferno

Gojira said:


> Deal.
> 
> Minus the love, and only if you are the girl that holds up the "Round 1,2,3" signs while wearing a gopher mascot outfit.


live actual gopher in a bikini best offer


----------



## Gojira

RadnessaurousRex said:


> I don't recall ever saying I don't have sa.
> 
> What's with the high fashion hipster llama tho


It was when I first joined.


----------



## LostinReverie

Plus one for a "female" with SA who has never been approached, flirted with, or been in a relationship before. Not to mention the many men I've tried to flirt with and have even asked out, and have been horribly rejected. Then there's also those "online guys" who say they like me, until they meet me, then magically disappear.


----------



## Charmeleon

Gojira said:


> Deal.
> 
> Minus the love, and only if you are the girl that holds up the "Round 1,2,3" signs while wearing a gopher mascot outfit.


My extroversion, snarkyness, sarcastic sense of humor and big *** mouth will overpower you


----------



## Charmeleon

Gojira said:


> It was when I first joined.


Trust me, I have it. I just don't let it hold me back from being awesome and stuff

Edit: what's with these pictures! What does it all mean!!!


----------



## regimes

LostInReverie said:


> Plus one for a "female" with SA who has never been approached, flirted with, or been in a relationship before. Not to mention the many men I've tried to flirt with and have even asked out, and have been horribly rejected. Then there's also those "online guys" who say they like me, until they meet me, then magically disappear.


----------



## Gojira

gopherinferno said:


> live actual gopher in a bikini best offer


Counter offer.

U do voice-over "Let's get ready to rumble" for live action bikini actual gopher.

Agree, and it's PayPerView.


----------



## Jesuszilla

I agree with you OP I don't think anyone experience should be diminished. We are here to support and support we shall (try to) do!



RadnessaurousRex said:


> As long as there are bitter, horny, whiny crybaby virgin sas men it will never stop


Hey, hey, hey I may be bitter, and horn and a whiny crybaby but I will never stop just because you say so


----------



## Gojira

RadnessaurousRex said:


> Edit: what's with these pictures! What does it all mean!!!












I'm stealing this pic because it perfectly fits too hahahaha :grin2:

And I distinctly remember this comment.


----------



## Jesuszilla

Grand said:


> I agree. It makes me feel worse about myself when they talk about how easy it is for women to get relationships. And they say all attractive women have relationships, so it's like... oh so I'm ugly and undesirable. That is what they are implying. It reaffirms my fears. I don't like when my problems are belittled either. My anxiety is severe, and my suffering is very real. It makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for the men on here, although I know not all of them are like that.


Try not to take people's frustrations personally. I know I've said my share of stupid things when I was angry.



gopherinferno said:


> in all seriousness, though, i feel so terrible for girls who actually take this kind of thing seriously. i feel bad for anyone who can actually get their feelings hurt by dbags on this website or anywhere else. i have no respect for anyone who thinks like this. it doesn't bother me what they think at all. but a lot of people get their feelings hurt and feel all ashamed and itchy and sticky and i hate that.


You are ahead of the game my friend. I've been working on my issues forever and I still what people say about me probably way harder than I should.


----------



## Charmeleon

Jesuszilla said:


> Hey, hey, hey I may be bitter, and horn and a whiny crybaby but I will never stop just because you say so


Do it for the children then



gopherinferno said:


> im gonna lock yall in a room together until one of you kills each other or you fall in love ^-^


I'm gonna lock yo *** in there with him see how you like it



Gojira said:


> I'm stealing this pic because it perfectly fits too hahahaha
> 
> And I distinctly remember this comment.


I was talking about the hipster lion and hipster llama pics, you calling me a hipster man >:0

Btw double post fail, pretty sure you were banned from space and time dude


----------



## regimes

yay! thank you guys for the positive replies. it makes me feel better about this forum actually.



Jesuszilla said:


> Try not to take people's frustrations personally. I know I've said my share of stupid things when I was angry.
> 
> You are ahead of the game my friend. I've been working on my issues forever and I still what people say about me probably way harder than I should.


same here. my SA likes to internalize everything even though it's much less worse than when i was a fragile teen.


----------



## Gojira

RadnessaurousRex said:


> My extroversion, snarkyness, sarcastic sense of humor and big *** mouth will overpower you


Nonsense.

I'm a bigger dinosaur, bud.


----------



## gopherinferno

RadnessaurousRex said:


> I'm gonna lock yo *** in there with him see how you like it


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

It's because of a skewed perspective. The virgin men on here are more vocal than the virgin women, so this is a recurring theme. But don't feel for one second that other women on here don't feel like you do, or that men (like me and others) are comfortable with the gender slamming.


----------



## Gojira

RadnessaurousRex said:


> I was talking about the hipster lion and hipster llama pics, you calling me a hipster man >:0


I think our respective fans will get it :nerd:

Man = Emma Watson with angry-neutral face??? Wtf lol


----------



## Gojira

gopherinferno said:


>


Idk why you would be stickin' your face in people's butts like that :surprise:


----------



## Charmeleon

gopherinferno said:


>


We're using your butt tho pal


----------



## Charmeleon

Gojira said:


> I think our respective fans will get it :nerd: lol


I don't even get it :/



Gojira said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> I'm a bigger dinosaur, bud.


I like a challenge


----------



## gopherinferno

me being stuck in a room with gojira would be like that poor guy getting his faced pushed into that gentleman's anus u feel me


----------



## Charmeleon

gopherinferno said:


> me being stuck in a room with gojira would be like that poor guy getting his faced pushed into that gentleman's anus u feel me


Once in a lifetime experience tho


----------



## Seegan

I was asked out once and my anxiety immediately shut me down. I was so overwhelmed with panic and humiliation that all I could do was look at the ground and respond with a cold "No." To be honest, I think that caught me off guard and scared me so much that the main reason I avoid guys my age is because I don't want to face a horribly awkward situation like that ever again.


----------



## Staticnz

I fully agree with the OP and have zero problems whatsoever with this thread.

But treating women like humans...you are playing a dangerous internet game...


----------



## Gojira

gopherinferno said:


> me being stuck in a room with gojira would be like that poor guy getting his faced pushed into that gentleman's anus u feel me


Being stuck in a room with gopherinferno would be worse than when ppl fart under blankets and then put people's heads under them.


----------



## Charmeleon

Gojira said:


> Being stuck in a room with gopherinferno would be worse than when ppl fart under blankets and then put people's heads under them.


I'm feeling left out :'(


----------



## millenniumman75

Is this thread sexist?


----------



## gopherinferno

Gojira said:


> Being stuck in a room with gopherinferno would be worse than when ppl fart under blankets and then put people's heads under them.


yeah but i'd still much rather be dutch oven-ed than have my face in an anus


----------



## Staticnz

millenniumman75 said:


> Is this thread sexist?


If it's sexist to acknowledge women are also humans...

Then yes.


----------



## Gojira

RadnessaurousRex said:


> I'm feeling left out :'(


U can contact buzz the farts.


----------



## Gojira

millenniumman75 said:


> Is this thread sexist?


Yes.


gopherinferno said:


> yeah but i'd still much rather be dutch oven-ed than have my face in an anus


Excellent point.

Choice between s hit sandwich and s hit sandwich with mayonnaise.


----------



## Euthymia

I never erase women's SAS experience, however I do believe their is a difference between the experience when it comes to gender.

I don't believe the phrase: "Women have it easier is correct."
More specifically, women don't usually have to initiate a relationship, it is usually done by the men.
That's the truth.

Now if you want to add in the very attractive factor then yea I'm going to say they are going to have it easy in life whether they have SAS or not.


----------



## meepie

Yeah, you got it OP. I didn't have my first relationship until 23, and my first serious one until 25. Actually, I distinctly remember when I first joined SAS I felt the same way about these threads, but more recently it has gotten worse. If someone thinks getting a girlfriend or boyfriend will cure their social anxiety, they will be in for a surprise. That's not in the criteria for getting diagnosed or neither a cure for social anxiety. If anything, being in a relationship will add more on your plate because now you have to worry about two people not just one. Making your partner happy will also be something that you have to worry about and if you have social anxiety, it's gonna be an uphill battle if your partner doesn't understand that. Getting someone to date you is only the first step, the next step is maintaining a healthy relationship and learning how to be a good human being to someone you love.


----------



## Gojira

There is a reason the "40 year old virgin" is a male stereotype.

And there literally are some here. Who woulda thought :stu


----------



## NerdlySquared

regimes said:


> i've seen a lot of dudes on this forum say "girls with SA can get dates anyway cause they don't have to work up the nerve to ask guys out" or things along that line and it's just plain harmful to girls with SA. even if gender roles impact how we interact, girls with SA suffer with relationship problems and anxieties too, and saying that guys have it harder is just erasing our experiences. i mean, how many ladies on this forum have been well into their twenties before even kissing anyone? went through high school and college feeling defunct, broken and lonely? how many ladies still haven't had relationships?
> 
> not every woman gets pursued and it hurts our feelings when dudes say that every woman does, because then we have to wonder "well what's wrong with me that i don't get pursued/hit on/flirted with?" and you know how SA can take that and make a mountain out of an anthill. i understand that having SA is rough, it makes certain things seem IMPOSSIBLE but it's not a competition and you have no idea who you might hurt (who, having SA, may not speak up about it).
> 
> i'm just saying, even if you don't like me (and i know some dudes on this forum don't) at least think about the other chicks with SA.


No one's loneliness is worth any more or less than anyone else's. How could it be, it's sad that you have to explain it 

Do you think more women would talk about their loneliness more often if they did not see these kinds of reactions when they do? Or is there something inherently more difficult in talking about loneliness as a woman?

Is it weird that I almost feel like I need to apologize for trying to ask a serious question in the middle of an admittedly pictorially colourful flame war?


----------



## meepie

Euthymia said:


> I never erase women's SAS experience, however I do believe their is a difference between the experience when it comes to gender.
> 
> I don't believe the phrase: "Women have it easier is correct."
> More specifically, women don't usually have to initiate a relationship, it is usually done by the men.
> That's the truth.
> 
> Now if you want to add in the very attractive factor then yea I'm going to say they are going to have it easy in life whether they have SAS or not.


A women's SAS experience is horrible when it comes to gender wars. 

SAS, not SAD that is.


----------



## Staticnz

Gojira said:


> There is a reason the "40 year old virgin" is a male stereotype.
> 
> And there literally are some here, who woulda thought :stu


But it's not like 40 year old virgin women don't exist.

It's just we'd have to do some study to find out how many there are. It's a bit more mysterious.


----------



## Gojira

Staticnz said:


> But it's not like 40 year old virgin women don't exist.
> 
> It's just we'd have to do some study to find out how many there are. It's a bit more mysterious.


Why is it mysterious? There are fewer?

Either way, it's a male stereotype just as bad as OP's point, but hilarious enough to make a comedy movie out of.

Let's make a movie about root canals too :serious:

It really has nothing to do with the sex. How many meaningful mental connections with a women do you think the average 30+ man has had?


----------



## regimes

NerdlySquared said:


> No one's loneliness is worth any more or less than anyone else's. How could it be, it's sad that you have to explain it
> 
> Do you think more women would talk about their loneliness more often if they did not see these kinds of reactions when they do? Or is there something inherently more difficult in talking about loneliness as a woman?
> 
> Is it weird that I almost feel like I need to apologize for trying to ask a serious question in the middle of an admittedly pictorially colourful flame war?


thank you! i've always felt more on the "outside" when i see those kinds of posts. like getting a boyfriend and dealing with boys in general felt like an impossible feat for the longest time for me, it's just dismissive of that SA suffering when people assume i could get a bf just by going outside with heels and makeup on.

and maybe, i don't know about other women, but i don't see a lot of similar posts by women and it does make me sad.

thank you for sympathizing!

and nah ignore them they're bumping my thread for me :wink2:


----------



## regimes

Gojira said:


> Why is it mysterious? There are fewer.
> 
> Either way, it's a gross male stereotype hilarious enough to make a comedy out of.
> 
> Let's make a movie about root canals too :serious:


i don't think there are fewer. women are socialized not to share those kinds of things. it's kinda like the recent "wow, girls masturbate too?!?!" phenomenon.


----------



## Euthymia

regimes said:


> thank you! i've always felt more on the "outside" when i see those kinds of posts. like getting a boyfriend and dealing with boys in general felt like an impossible feat for the longest time for me, it's just dismissive of that SA suffering when people assume i could get a bf just by going outside with heels and makeup on.
> 
> and maybe, i don't know about other women, but i don't see a lot of similar posts by women and it does make me sad.
> 
> thank you for sympathizing!
> 
> and nah ignore them they're bumping my thread for me :wink2:


I'd like to swoop in again to say that dealing with men vs dealing with women is also different.

Men are very accepting when it comes to fault in women as long as you give him what he wants . lol.

Women...............on the other hand are different. It's been conclusively proven in a scientific lab that women cannot be pleased...


----------



## Staticnz

Girls also poop and it's morally and philosophically repugnant.


----------



## Gojira

regimes said:


> i don't think there are fewer. women are socialized not to share those kinds of things. it's kinda like the recent "wow, girls masturbate too?!?!" phenomenon.


I don't think we are socialized to advertise our virginity either haha.

There is some kind of actual difference why we face the "40 year old virgin" stereotype, and women don't? :stu

Seriously, when you think of the phrase "30 year old virgin", you are going to think of a dude in suspenders XD

Male stereotype.

Also, if "Wow, girls masturbate too!?!?" Is a RECENT meme, I've finally lost my faith in the internet lol. That would have been cool in like 2003.


----------



## minimized




----------



## meepie

Staticnz said:


> I fully agree with the OP and have zero problems whatsoever with this thread.
> 
> But treating women like humans...you are playing a dangerous internet game...


These are the kinds of guys girls wanna date.


----------



## Gojira

meepie said:


> These are the kinds of guys girls wanna date.


No no, girls date guys the opposite of this all of the time. Not to say they dont date nice guys, but you can't say none date the other type of guy.

It is commonly perceived that girls go for cocky or "*** hole" type guys by society.


----------



## regimes

meepie said:


> These are the kinds of guys girls wanna date.


this is completely true.


----------



## Euthymia

Gojira said:


> No no, girls date guys the opposite of this all of the time.


Nonsense.

Girls love to date nice, caring, cool guys all the time.

Haven't you noticed .


----------



## Gojira

Euthymia said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Girls love to date nice, caring, cool guys all the time.
> 
> Haven't you noticed .


Love is a stretch.

I would say tolerate.

Anyway, I really agree that there are girls that have it bad too, I'm just bored, and it bugs me that guys frustration threads usually get big steaming dumps taken on them anyway, so this really isn't like gender specific that women frustration gets marginalized. Both do.


----------



## regimes

Gojira said:


> I don't think we are socialized to advertise our virginity either haha.
> 
> There is some kind of actual difference why we face the "40 year old virgin" stereotype, and women don't :stu
> 
> Seriously, when you think of the phrase "30 year old virgin", you are going to think of a dude in suspenders XD
> 
> Male stereotype.
> 
> Also, if "Wow, girls masturbate too!?!?" Is a RECENT meme, I've finally lost my faith in the internet lol. That would have been cool in like 2003.


i mean you're not socialized to share your virginity, but guys are socialized to be more comfortable talking about their sex lives in general. me and my friends weren't comfortable talking to each other about our sex lives and masturbation until we were in our 20s.

AND pretty much if you talk about your sex life as a teenage girl you're either a **** or a prude.


----------



## regimes

Euthymia said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Girls love to date nice, caring, cool guys all the time.
> 
> Haven't you noticed .


i think she meant men that are feminists.


----------



## meepie

regimes said:


> i think she meant men that are feminists.


I meant rational guys that treat women like human beings like all of the guys I've dated.


----------



## Euthymia

regimes said:


> i think she meant men that are feminists.


lol I know I was being sarcastic.

However you won't find to many men who are feminists, but you will find many who respect women.


----------



## regimes

Euthymia said:


> lol I know I was being sarcastic.
> 
> However you won't find to many men who are feminists, but you will find many who respect women.


i know, they're a couple golden tickets in billions of chocolate bars.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

The 40 year old virgin was a stupid movie. There is nothing wrong with being a virgin, at any age, but the majority of people in America can't think for themselves, and look towards Hollywood to form their opinions.

That is not our fault, but Judd Apatow needs to stop making movies. He's partially responsible for male virgins being upset, even when there's nothing wrong with them.


----------



## Invisiblehandicap

Do you actually expect those kinds of men here to listen to logic rather than continuing their own biased ways to make themselves feel better? See how they have turned it into how men have it worse rather than acknowledging that you have a valid point OP?


----------



## Gojira

regimes said:


> i know, they're a couple golden tickets in billions of chocolate bars.


O jeez, com on now, after your original post, that's a really generalizing view lol

Honestly I think many girls are socialized to think like your quote by Cosmo and women focused media, and then that's why women sometimes have a problem with guys dating issues potentially being more significant.

Because it's acceptable to generalize guys and not girls, even in subtle cases.

That's really what this is all about, growing acceptability of being anti man in society.


----------



## Gojira

Invisiblehandicap said:


> Do you actually expect those kinds of men here to listen to logic rather than continuing their own biased ways to make themselves feel better? See how they have turned it into how men have it worse rather than acknowledging that you have a valid point OP?


It can be both.

She has a valid point.

But ignoring the realities and frustrations guys have is bad too :stu

Like, if there are more guys isolated or S.O.less, acknowledge it. It's who has it worse when you say, "What about me??" Instead of acknowledge the numbers.


----------



## Invisiblehandicap

Gojira said:


> It can be both.
> 
> She has a valid point.
> 
> But ignoring the realities and frustrations guys have is bad too :stu
> 
> Like, if there are more guys isolated or S.O.less, acknowledge it. It's who has it worse when you say, "What about me??" Instead of acknowledge the numbers.


This thread is about womens fustrations, not mens. Just because more men have it bad, that doesnt justify the men on here saying because more men have it bad, that males have it worse. You are only one person, and you dont get to say that you have it worse than a girl with extreme SA just because more men have SA than females. it doesnt make any sense.

No one on here ever ignores that men with SA have it bad, so theres no reason to hijack a thread about acknowledging that females have issues too. The positivity people who claim that its not that bad are not these females that are posting.


----------



## Darktower776

Grand said:


> It makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for the men on here, although I know not all of them are like that.





regimes said:


> yay! thank you guys for the positive replies. it makes me feel better about this forum actually.


It's because those posters are usually more vocal and post more about their frustrations than most. It skews the forum a bit to seem like almost all the guys on here disregard girl's SA experiences.

There are plenty of guys that agree with the OP's sentiments, but they usually get drowned out by the more vocal frustrated guys.


----------



## Imbored21

Don't worry OP. You'll get a boyfriend. Honestly, you will. Don't lose sleep over it. Your time will come.


----------



## McFly

Invisiblehandicap said:


> This thread is about womens fustrations, not mens. *Just because more men have it bad, that doesnt justify the men on here saying because more men have it bad, that males have it worse*. You are only one person, and you dont get to say that you have it worse than a girl with extreme SA just because more men have SA than females. it doesnt make any sense.


You're contradicting yourself there



> No one on here ever ignores that men with SA have it bad, so theres no reason to hijack a thread about acknowledging that females have issues too. The positivity people who claim that its not that bad are not these females that are posting.


Lmao, when guys complain about lack of dating or sex there are often ignored or laughed at. Mean while white knights come in and want to sympathize with the poor lonely females. I see this all the time at SAS.


----------



## Gojira

Invisiblehandicap said:


> This thread is about womens fustrations, not mens. Just because more men have it bad, that doesnt justify the men on here saying because more men have it bad, that males have it worse. You are only one person, and you dont get to say that you have it worse than a girl with extreme SA just because more men have SA than females. it doesnt make any sense.
> 
> No one on here ever ignores that men with SA have it bad, so theres no reason to hijack a thread about acknowledging that females have issues too. The positivity people who claim that its not that bad are not these females that are posting.


Like I said, it can be both.

It doesn't discredit women's anxiety struggles by a acknowledging that there are differences that make one sides frustration more common than the other.

But for example, a lot of people defend the focus of rape as a women's issue because it affects women more, so numbers do make a significant difference in which group gets more focus during gender issues that affect both to some degree or another.


----------



## meepie

George McFly said:


> Lmao, when guys complain about lack of dating or sex there are often ignored or laughed at. Mean while white knights come in and want to sympathize with the poor lonely females. I see this all the time at SAS.


I love white knights aka men(gay or straight) who recognize suffering isn't a competition between genders and neither can anyone understand anyone else's pain. AKA white knights.

All white knights show yourself. Women want to date you, we love you.


----------



## Gojira

meepie said:


> All white knights show yourself. Women want to date you, we love you.


That's what the Urban Dictionary definition of white knight is. Guys on the internet that defend girls so that they will like them and get female attention.


----------



## Jesuszilla

This will be so deleted when I wake up


----------



## McFly

meepie said:


> I love white knights aka men(gay or straight) who recognize suffering isn't a competition between genders and neither can anyone understand anyone else's pain. AKA white knights.
> 
> All white knights show yourself. Women want to date you, we love you.


That's great for you meepie. I mean there's nothing wrong being attracted to men on your own level where everyone is considered equal.

But I don't think you understand the definition of a white knight. These are men thirsty for some poon that will put women above men in any instance. Personally I'd rather hack off my testicles with a rusty Ka-Bar instead of treating women like the superior sex. But that's just me **shrugs**


----------



## Staticnz

meepie said:


> These are the kinds of guys girls wanna date.


Well, my gf seems to like me.

I was once accused of being nice to girls to get into their pants.

Then I realized, hey that's better than being an a-hole and getting into their pants. If you can make the other person feel good as a person, relate to them as a human, and get/have sex as a positive mutual experience and not just an 'accomplishment', that's still better than being a fake-*** douchey guy that tries to impress women by being a 'playboy'.

(Who also tend to be the kind of guys people around here can't stand being around! Why would you want to BE the guys you hate?! Why not be better instead??)

If being nice to women can get you women, that's a double whammy. Plus I love her.

All that said the douchey guys do get women, cos I dunno, being confident and fake can work on some women, and mainstream culture is so very shallow and materialistic, some women may be conditioned to think that's desirable. But it usually ends in tears huh? (When they cheat on each other or fight too much or get bored)

Also you have to really try to find someone to make a deeper connection with, but girls like that are out there. For sure. Don't forget the girls that want a quality relationship guys.


----------



## saya2077

Women cant imagine what its like being male with SA, and males cant imagine what its like being female with SA. That's it, so stop the god damn competition, it doesn't prove anything or make your sex look superior, it makes you look bitter as ****.

SA is a _mental issue_ and changes depending on the person, so why the flying pingu are you trying to prove who has it worst as a group? Try being productive and focus on overcoming it.


----------



## Staticnz

In my opinion 'white knight' is inherently derogatory and negative, because the definition assumes you are standing up for women just to get on their good side.

I don't do that. I genuinely believe what I do about women's issues etc. if I saw a woman bullying a guy I'd be like what's your problem. 

I think everybody should be treated equal but also don't believe men and women's 'issues' are completely equal. There's bad things that affect women a lot more and some things that impact men.

But also think everybody's personal expression of their situation is equally valid no matter who you are. Just sometimes a lot of people's personal expression is loaded with aspersions on other groups, rendering them problematic.

But no white knight is just something I'd be accused of, but not anything I'd want to associate with. I think it buys into a negative narrative (for men and women) that the only thing anybody cares about is getting affection or sex, and can't just have genuine positive thoughts about/empathy with the other sex.

I at least feel like I'm beyond that, at this point in my life. Not a teenager anymore.


----------



## harrison

RadnessaurousRex said:


> Once in a lifetime experience tho


:lol

Am I the only one that finds that gif deeply alarming?

OP - sorry the forum makes you feel like that. Trust me - there are lots of men on here that know you women have just as difficult time as men do. The guys you're talking about don't really mean any harm - they're lack of experience and perspective seriously colours their views.


----------



## LostinReverie

Did anyone else google "flying pingu" or was it just me?


----------



## regimes

:grin2:


Imbored21 said:


> Don't worry OP. You'll get a boyfriend. Honestly, you will. Don't lose sleep over it. Your time will come.


i already have one, thanks tho.


----------



## regimes

George McFly said:


> You're contradicting yourself there
> 
> Lmao, when guys complain about lack of dating or sex there are often ignored or laughed at. Mean while white knights come in and want to sympathize with the poor lonely females. I see this all the time at SAS.


really? cause i see loads of dudes talking about their experiences and generally taking up more space than girls. and then when girls make these kinds of threads, we get these kinds of responses.


----------



## regimes

Gojira said:


> It can be both.
> 
> She has a valid point.
> 
> But ignoring the realities and frustrations guys have is bad too :stu
> 
> Like, if there are more guys isolated or S.O.less, acknowledge it. It's who has it worse when you say, "What about me??" Instead of acknowledge the numbers.


did i say that guys _don't_ have it bad??
i said please stop ignoring the fact that girls have it bad too. and you want to come onto my thread and go "but what about the men?"


----------



## regimes

Jesuszilla said:


> This will be so deleted when I wake up


that's the problem. guys make these threads and get validated; girls make them and they're controversial.


----------



## regimes

saya2077 said:


> Women cant imagine what its like being male with SA, and males cant imagine what its like being female with SA. That's it, so stop the god damn competition, it doesn't prove anything or make your sex look superior, it makes you look bitter as ****.
> 
> SA is a _mental issue_ and changes depending on the person, so why the flying pingu are you trying to prove who has it worst as a group? Try being productive and focus on overcoming it.


i'm not actually trying to say girls have it worst, i'm trying to say hey girls have it bad too can you not dismiss our experiences while talking about your own??


----------



## regimes

Invisiblehandicap said:


> Do you actually expect those kinds of men here to listen to logic rather than continuing their own biased ways to make themselves feel better? See how they have turned it into how men have it worse rather than acknowledging that you have a valid point OP?


yes, i see this. :serious:


----------



## chaotic brain

I think we all can agree that it should be allowed to bash and insult the men on this forum as pathetic virgins left and right, but when the topic comes up of how they came to be that way we can't talk about it at all and should just shut up.


----------



## Wings of Amnesty

chaotic brain said:


> I think we all can agree that it should be allowed to bash and insult the men on this forum as pathetic virgins left and right, but when the topic comes up of how they came to be that way we can't talk about it at all and should just shut up.


Oh come on dude, women aren't doing anything wrong by not having sex with you.


----------



## chaotic brain

Wings of Amnesty said:


> Oh come on dude, women aren't doing anything wrong by not having sex with you.


Maybe I wasn't clear in my post ? I'm talking about the fact that men on this forum are bitter and seen as pathetic. Basically various different things in society have caused them to be that way. But we can't talk about those things.

I wasn't saying women were doing something wrong not having sex with those guys.


----------



## Royals

Do you know who erased my thread? 'Girls rule the world'? It was only a psychological question. Now I have to write it in a different way from memory. I don't like it when threads get removed without notice or withoutme knowing


----------



## iCod

RadnessaurousRex said:


> As long as there are bitter, horny, whiny crybaby virgin sas men it will never stop


You don't understand what complete isolation can do to a person. And didn't you say you were a normie?


----------



## shyicebear

I understand how being a woman with SA, shy, naive and insecure makes you more vulnerable to be targeted by sick people. My first boyfriend was a sick manipulative person. I managed to dodge that hell but the experience definitely made my anxiety worst. I dropped out of college and hid in my room for three years until parents bought a new house which literally forced me to get out again. I went through a lot to improve myself and finally become stable enough to find my significant other that I have now. 



I just ignore the whiny men here and post as if they are not around. Since they don’t consider other people on this site, I don’t bother reading their posts anymore. At first I tried to empathize with these men until I realized that whining is their hobby. They do this every single day here and they whine about the same **** repeatedly not just on their thread but they spread it everywhere else. It’s pointless to give them any attention.


----------



## AussiePea

The way i see it is yes a girl will have more opportunities to date however actually creating a meaningful relationship with someone while suffering SA will be just as difficult as a guy with similar levels of SA. So at the end of the day it still sucks.

Online dating has made it a lot easier for shy guys though, not in a thousand years would I ever have approached someone irl and therefore prob never dated but with online dating it has allowed me to meet people and go on dates, it's a godsend.


----------



## Gojira

regimes said:


> that's the problem. guys make these threads and get validated; girls make them and they're controversial.


Whaaaat?

Lol.

It's usually backwards.


----------



## Gojira

chaotic brain said:


> I think we all can agree that it should be allowed to bash and insult the men on this forum as pathetic virgins left and right, but when the topic comes up of how they came to be that way we can't talk about it at all and should just shut up.





Wings of Amnesty said:


> Oh come on dude, women aren't doing anything wrong by not having sex with you.





chaotic brain said:


> Maybe I wasn't clear in my post ? I'm talking about the fact that men on this forum are bitter and seen as pathetic. Basically various different things in society have caused them to be that way. But we can't talk about those things.
> 
> I wasn't saying women were doing something wrong not having sex with those guys.


Lol, don't worry @chaotic brain , that is one of the traditional one-liner, over reactive defenses that guys get when they make a frustration thread.

You didn't say that, but that is one way people that harbor anti male views try to shut down men. It's an accusation. And slanderous.

Doesn't matter if you even said anything about it apparently lol. It's just an attack. And a bit over-zealous.


----------



## Gojira

regimes said:


> i'm not actually trying to say girls have it worst, i'm trying to say hey girls have it bad too can you not dismiss our experiences while talking about your own??


I said this awhile back, but you can't really blame the severely isolated, never had a relationship guys for not seeing the female point of view. They don't get to see any bodies point of view. Because they are isolated.

Couple that with the fact that similar female stories are rare here and disproportionate, and it's easy to see how they could just be completely oblivious to what anybody else goes through. Let alone women.


----------



## Ignopius

First off, I would like to begin with men should not be posting things like 'its harder for men' in threads posted by frustrated woman. It's counter-productive. With that being said, I will share my real opinion that's not meant to be politically correct and overly friendly to women.

Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.

So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


----------



## Fangirl96

Yeah it's annoying, but i don't really care when people on this forum says stuff like that. I know that most of them are probably spending every day in their parents basement and have gone a lil too far into their own world in their head. 
I find it worse when i see it somewhere else, like on social media or something where "normal" people talk about it. They go outside. They socialize. They see things. They know things. And when they say that it's easy for girls to get a bf in a heartbeat and get over their anxiety, that's what gets to me more. That's what makes me really feel like a misfit. But i have bigger problems than worrying about stuff like that all the time tbh. But sometimes it bothers me.


----------



## Gojira

Staticnz said:


> I think everybody should be treated equal but also don't believe men and women's 'issues' are completely equal. There's bad things that affect women a lot more and some things that impact men.


Ahh. Basically the crux of the matter - that if you are a particular gender, differences are great to bring up all of the time in the news, media, and society.

But not for the other. The other has to suck it up and carry on, no matter the problem.


----------



## Gojira

Ignopius said:


> First off, I would like to begin with men should not be posting things like 'its harder for men' in threads posted by frustrated woman. It's counter-productive. With that being said, I will share my real opinion that's not meant to be politically correct and overly friendly to women.
> 
> Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.
> 
> So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


Second paragraph, spot on.

First paragraph, the discussions are intrinsically linked, so it happens. This is a frustration thread about guys.


----------



## Amphoteric

Ignopius said:


> So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


I'm not sure how repeating this ancient mantra that it's okay to cheat in a relationship if your partner isn't performing their supposed sexual duties helps this discussion.

I thought you equated cheaters to pedophiles and murderers on the scale of morality anyway.


----------



## Gojira

Fangirl96 said:


> l I know that most of them are probably spending every day in their parents basement and have gone a lil too far into their own world in their head.
> L


The dreaded SA guy in his parents basement stereotype.


----------



## Gojira

Amphoteric said:


> I'm not sure how repeating this ancient mantra that it's okay to cheat in a relationship if your partner isn't performing their supposed sexual duties helps this discussion.
> 
> I thought you equated cheaters to pedophiles and murderers on the scale of morality anyway.


Sex is a part of the bulk of normal relationships and marriages, and it's a manipulative tool to withhold it for ulterior motives.

So it's not really supposed, and is breakup worthy.


----------



## Amphoteric

Gojira said:


> Sex is a part of the bulk of normal relationships and marriages, and it's a manipulative tool to withhold it for ulterior motives.
> 
> So it's not really supposed, and is breakup worthy.


Honest discussion and communication is a part of the deal too. Sure, purposefully withholding can be a tool of manipulation, but at the same time "giving some" isn't a default responsibility for either of the parties.


----------



## nubly

SA guys can get a girl if they man up about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gojira

Amphoteric said:


> Honest discussion and communication is a part of the deal too. Sure, purposefully withholding can be a tool of manipulation, but at the same time "giving some" isn't a default responsibility for either of the parties.


I agree about honest discussion and communication, it'd be nice to see more, and many more relationships would probably last.

But unless you are very religious, the average person guy or girl likes sex and would think that a normal relationship has it :stu

So is it a duty? To get it on demand, no lol. But that, it's part of a healthy relationship, yes.


----------



## Amphoteric

Gojira said:


> I agree about honest discussion and communication, it'd be nice to see more, and many more relationships would probably last.
> 
> But unless you are very religious, the average person guy or girl likes sex and would think that a normal relationship has it :stu
> 
> So is it a duty? To get it on demand, no lol. But that, it's part of a healthy relationship, yes.


Yeah I was actually thinking about it with your first reply, that more people probably enter a relationship expecting just sex rather than expecting there to be constructive communication too, lol. So yeah it's not gonna turn out so sweet if the sex life gets less active for whatever reason and neither have any idea how to talk about it.


----------



## Charmeleon

Oh look it's still here



iCod said:


> You don't understand what complete isolation can do to a person. And didn't you say you were a normie?


You and your ilk are the ones that started calling me normie remember


----------



## alienbird

I wouldn't get approached even if I went out, because my anxious behavior is off-putting. Oh, and here is the biggest one... I can't talk to people, so it wouldn't matter anyway. That's how severe my anxiety is. I am also more isolated than most men on this site. I have no life at all because of my anxiety. And even if I got a boyfriend, he wouldn't be sticking around to put up with my issues.


----------



## Euthymia

Ignopius said:


> First off, I would like to begin with men should not be posting things like 'its harder for men' in threads posted by frustrated woman. It's counter-productive. With that being said, I will share my real opinion that's not meant to be politically correct and overly friendly to women.
> 
> Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.
> 
> So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


I don't think you could of explained it any better, because it just about wraps up this thread regarding women vs men who have SAS.

OP and everyone on this thread needs to read this.

No one is ignoring women's experience, we simply acknowledge that men have way more work when it comes to dating and maintaing a relationship.

I would like to quote you.


----------



## Ignopius

Amphoteric said:


> I'm not sure how repeating this ancient mantra that it's okay to cheat in a relationship if your partner isn't performing their supposed sexual duties helps this discussion.
> 
> I thought you equated cheaters to pedophiles and murderers on the scale of morality anyway.


I wasn't condoning there actions. I was just making a point that women also need to do work and take responsibility for the failure of the relationships even if it involved cheating. I think cheating is a horrific thing to do for both genders and I would never do such.

Also my first two paragraphs are the bigger answers to this question.


----------



## alienbird

I really hate most men on this site.


----------



## Ignopius

Grand said:


> I really hate most men on this site.


If I were to say make this comment, I would get groups of both men and women attacking me endlessly. In fact, I would probably get a warning by a moderator and comment deleted.

But guess what? I'm not going to attack you because I really don't care. And I'm not going to find a reason to get my feelings hurt by a random person on the internet.


----------



## Ignopius

Grand said:


> I wouldn't get approached even if I went out, because my anxious behavior is off-putting. Oh, and here is the biggest one... I can't talk to people, so it wouldn't matter anyway. That's how severe my anxiety is. I am also more isolated than most men on this site. I have no life at all because of my anxiety. And even if I got a boyfriend, he wouldn't be sticking around to put up with my issues.


Have you tried medication before? It has greatly helped me in the past. Or CBT which can help improve yourself in social situations. It's like retraining your brain to think.


----------



## Stray Bullet

Grand said:


> I really hate most men on this site.


But, we love you.


----------



## regimes

Ignopius said:


> First off, I would like to begin with men should not be posting things like 'its harder for men' in threads posted by frustrated woman. It's counter-productive. With that being said, I will share my real opinion that's not meant to be politically correct and overly friendly to women.
> 
> Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.
> 
> So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


isn't it tedious to be this sexist and narrow-minded?

i also like how you say "men shouldn't post that" and then proceed to post that.


----------



## regimes

Amphoteric said:


> I'm not sure how repeating this ancient mantra that it's okay to cheat in a relationship if your partner isn't performing their supposed sexual duties helps this discussion.
> 
> I thought you equated cheaters to pedophiles and murderers on the scale of morality anyway.


i know right? maybe you should uh _ask_ your partner what's going on. maybe she doesn't feel connected with you, maybe she's having body issues, maybe the sex hurts, etc. but the person in this hypothesized situation cares more about orgasms than his actual partner, which unfortunately happens to women a lot.


----------



## regimes

Ignopius said:


> Have you tried medication before? It has greatly helped me in the past. Or CBT which can help improve yourself in social situations. It's like retraining your brain to think.


i'd like to point out your hypocrisy: when men have troubles talking to women, you validate them and sympathize and discuss. when this woman admits having troubles talking to men, you tell her to take some medicine.


----------



## Amphoteric

Ignopius said:


> I wasn't condoning there actions. I was just making a point that women also need to do work and take responsibility for the failure of the relationships even if it involved cheating. I think cheating is a horrific thing to do for both genders and I would never do such.
> 
> Also my first two paragraphs are the bigger answers to this question.


Alright, that's fair enough. Personally I don't think it's as simple as that if the sex ends, then what you should expect is cheating, but I elaborated on that in my replies to Gojira.



Grand said:


> I really hate most men on this site.


This is an awful thing to say and it just really doesn't help anyone.


----------



## Milco

Grand said:


> And they say all attractive women have relationships, so it's like... oh so I'm ugly and undesirable.


There sadly are a lot of rude and insensitive people around - both on here and in general.
I know I've been really frustrated with people saying all actually kind and caring guys get relationships, the implication made more or less explicitly that if you claim you're a kind and caring guy and haven't been in a relationship, you're actually just lying and manipulative.

I do think things tend to affect men and women a bit differently, because there are somewhat different expectations and 'roles', but anybody struggling - as plenty of good people do - deserve respect and support, not to be belittled.


----------



## regimes

shyicebear said:


> I understand how being a woman with SA, shy, naive and insecure makes you more vulnerable to be targeted by sick people. My first boyfriend was a sick manipulative person. I managed to dodge that hell but the experience definitely made my anxiety worst. I dropped out of college and hid in my room for three years until parents bought a new house which literally forced me to get out again. I went through a lot to improve myself and finally become stable enough to find my significant other that I have now.
> 
> I just ignore the whiny men here and post as if they are not around. Since they don't consider other people on this site, I don't bother reading their posts anymore. At first I tried to empathize with these men until I realized that whining is their hobby. They do this every single day here and they whine about the same **** repeatedly not just on their thread but they spread it everywhere else. It's pointless to give them any attention.


i'm sorry to hear that  but i'm glad you got out of it and got yourself in a better relationship. that takes a lot of courage (esp for someone with SA)

and i'm thinking about doing just that.


----------



## regimes

Milco said:


> There sadly are a lot of rude and insensitive people around - both on here and in general.
> I know I've been really frustrated with people saying all actually kind and caring guys get relationships, the implication made more or less explicitly that if you're a kind and caring guy and haven't been in a relationship, you're actually just lying and manipulative.
> 
> I do think things tend to affect men and women a bit differently, because there are somewhat different expectations and 'roles', but anybody struggling - as plenty of good people do - deserve respect and support, not to be belittled.


thank you! i totally agree. it's insensitive to say that about either gender, because someone's bound to think "well.. what's wrong with me then?"


----------



## Milco

meepie said:


> All white knights show yourself. Women want to date you, we love you.


It's really not that easy - just as it isn't for women. Guys don't automatically get dates by being good people.
That's to to say people shouldn't try to be good people but just.. argh.. it's not that easy.


----------



## Paper Samurai

I think in the realms of SA, both men and women are equally affected. There's no way anyone is getting a relationship if they have trouble talking to people - end of really. So taking that into account, guys on here shouldn't be so quick to say 'ur teh girl, walk out of the house get instant bf lol' or any other variant of. 

HOWEVER, with that being said if you were to talk purely about normal everyday people (without any mental afflictions) then yes, guys have several additional hurdles to get over. I think everyone knows at least one guy that fits the mold of; above average looks, intelligent and a fairly big social circle of friends yet still has trouble getting dates. Even very mild self-esteem issues with men can be a massive problem in dating. The only good news here is that it's not about having these issues if you really think about it, it's more about learning how to not put them on show.


----------



## Ignopius

regimes said:


> i'd like to point out your hypocrisy: when men have troubles talking to women, you validate them and sympathize and discuss. when this woman admits having troubles talking to men, you tell her to take some medicine.


Medication is a tool that helps with anxiety. And I also have recommended CBT which helps learning to live with anxiety. I have made the same recommendations for men in the past.


----------



## Paper Samurai

Milco said:


> It's really not that easy - just as it isn't for women. Guys don't automatically get dates by being good people.
> That's to to say people shouldn't try to be good people but just.. argh.. it's not that easy.


 Amen to that. If you want to know what each gender is primarily attracted to, look at what attributes/areas men and women compete on.

But to hell with it, I'm going to try to be a good person anyway. Even if it's just for my own amusement/sense of principle


----------



## Ignopius

regimes said:


> isn't it tedious to be this sexist and narrow-minded?
> 
> *i also like how you say "men shouldn't post that" and then proceed to post that.*


You started the discussion with this thread. So I gave my opinion. This thread is very much different than ones in which women are complaining about their problems to which I would just try to help them.

And calling me a sexist isn't helping your case. Especially since we both agree men shouldn't trivialize women's problems in the frustration threads.


----------



## alienbird

Amphoteric said:


> This is an awful thing to say and it just really doesn't help anyone.


I don't even care anymore. It's true. I hate a good portion of men on here because of the way they talk about women + dismissing women's experiences. I get to feel even more abnormal and undesirable on here.


----------



## Persephone The Dread

Grand said:


> I don't even care anymore. It's true. I hate a good portion of men on here because of the way they talk about women + dismissing women's experiences. I get to feel even more abnormal and undesirable on here.


I understand your frustration, you should avoid the frustration section entirely and it helps a little.

Outside of frustration there's a small minority of users who have to make everything gendered and annoy the **** out of me, though I can't say I hate any of them, but there are a lot of cool guys here too, and plenty of guys who post less as well. The most frustrated people are always going to be the loudest.


----------



## Milco

Paper Samurai said:


> But to hell with it, I'm going to try to be a good person anyway. Even if it's just for my own amusement/sense of principle


Yeah, I think that's the only thing there is to do.
Not because of dating, but because it's no fun being a person you don't like yourself.


----------



## regimes

Ignopius said:


> Medication is a tool that helps with anxiety. And I also have recommended CBT which helps learning to live with anxiety. I have made the same recommendations for men in the past.


but in this thread alone, you've wrote paragraphs on how rough it is to be a guy and then completely dismissed the girl with "take medication"


----------



## regimes

Ignopius said:


> You started the discussion with this thread. So I gave my opinion. This thread is very much different than ones in which women are complaining about their problems to which I would just try to help them.
> 
> And calling me a sexist isn't helping your case. Especially since we both agree men shouldn't trivialize women's problems in the frustration threads.


if you say sexist things i'm going to call you a sexist, not sorry.


----------



## caelle

Ignopius said:


> If I were to say make this comment, I would get groups of both men and women attacking me endlessly. In fact, I would probably get a warning by a moderator and comment deleted.


I've seen guys on here say they hate women. They say it because they can't get their penis inside of a vagina.

Grand is saying she hates the guys on here because they can't stop talking **** about women and dismissing women's frustrations. Acting like their problems don't matter as much as theirs.

Honestly, there's a difference.

And I agree op. Some of the men on here are good guys who care about the women on here who don't have it easy. But then I think there are a lot more guys who want to win the "pity me" award and couldn't care less about how difficult some of the women have it. If you have a vagina, you have no reason to complain.. in their minds at least. I tend to just ignored them, but if they bother you that much, I'd use the ignore/block option on here so you don't have to see their crap anymore.


----------



## regimes

nomi said:


> I've seen guys on here say they hate women. They say it because they can't get their penis inside of a vagina.
> 
> Grand is saying she hates the guys on here because they can't stop talking **** about women and dismissing women's frustrations. Acting like their problems don't matter as much as theirs.
> 
> Honestly, there's a difference.
> 
> And I agree op. Some of the men on here are good guys who care about the women on here who don't have it easy. But then I think there are a lot more guys who want to win the "pity me" award and couldn't care less about how difficult some of the women have it. If you have a vagina, you have no reason to complain.. in their minds at least. I tend to just ignored them, but if they bother you that much, I'd use the ignore/block option on here so you don't have to see their crap anymore.


thank you!
and that is a completely valid point.


----------



## Jesuszilla

A lot of people here have not only missed the point but blew this way out of proportion.

All OP was saying is that when a woman makes a thread to not say things like "girls have it easier" or "at least you have a boyfriend" because it's not supportive or helpful to their situation.

And for the record, those problems are just as a valid as the guys here who are lonely, isolated and frustrated. And to think that it's simply because these guys can't get sex is missing the point of their problems too.

Until last year I *was* that isolated frustrated guy. I was the guy who got rejection after rejection and thought no girl would ever like me. I never had a girls or people in general treat me like a person...especially when I was young so I had that distorted view. So I understand that the frustration isn't simply because women aren't sleeping with them it's because having no one to go to for anything: girl, family, friends etc. makes you rely on yourself which if you have depression you're dealing with some really harsh issues.

Anyway, rant aside the point is when people (to stay on topic with the thread) women post their issues to not down play it...that's it. Read it and if you can help post something, if you think it'll help but the view is controversial then still post it but don't make someone feel like their problems don't matter because you don't understand.


----------



## Gojira

Grand said:


> I really hate most men on this site.





Ignopius said:


> *If I were to say make this comment, I would get groups of both men and women attacking me endlessly. In fact, I would probably get a warning by a moderator and comment deleted. *
> 
> But guess what? I'm not going to attack you because I really don't care. And I'm not going to find a reason to get my feelings hurt by a random person on the internet.


That's exactly the double standard that exists on SAS. There is a Modding and culture bias favoring women's issues and sentiments over mens here.

Which is why her comment will stay and be ignored by Mod, and at the very least, she won't face penalty or warning. And like you said, if you made it, you would get an official penalty from Mod, and no doubt some hate from the community of users that supports that bias.

Don't worry. I've gotten random out of the blue PM's from people NOTICING INDEPENDENTLY all of the hypocrisy in regards to how the two genders are treated differently on SAS, and thanking me for speaking up, where they can't due to their anxiety and fear of being personally attacked.


----------



## Hylar

Grand said:


> I don't even care anymore. It's true. I hate a good portion of men on here because of the way they talk about women + dismissing women's experiences. I get to feel even more abnormal and undesirable on here.


Have to say I agree with you, and it's one reason why I don't use this site that often any more.


----------



## Gojira

Ignopius said:


> *You started the discussion with this thread. So I gave my opinion. This thread is very much different than ones in which women are complaining about their problems to which I would just try to help them. *
> 
> And calling me a sexist isn't helping your case. Especially since we both agree men shouldn't trivialize women's problems in the frustration threads.


First, she's calling you a sexist because of the hypocrisy. You can criticize men's actions, and it's fine. If you made the same level of criticism about women's issues, it's sexism - double standard. With those kinds of protections, I'm not sure what the frustration is completely about, as it's easier to express yourself.

Second, the bold, perfect. This is a thread criticizing men. It's not like it's a frustration thread about anxiety problems women have. I DO WANT TO SEE MORE OF THOSE.

The lack of female frustration threads just talking about being alone and isolated and expressing the same feelings and experiences men have is a large portion of the reason why isolated guys, with very little life experience as it is, are unable to relate to those women with similar SA issues in the first place.

You can't relate with someone you don't know exists because of your isolation and them actually not posting the same problems to relate with.

It takes threads like these for the girls to finally come out with their isolation stories, which is a shame. But a good chunk of the lack of relating is due to there being no visible stories to relate to :stu


----------



## Hylar

^ Please stop... :sigh


----------



## Halfsleeper

there was a thread about egroups for this forum and I've noticed some girls here are members of a "Womens Support" group. It's private I bet all the women could be invited to join and those guys won't be able to jump in and be a**holes. I don't know why that group isn't used more. It seems a little out of the way but it sure would eliminate the problem of some guys being plain a**holes. 
@meepie you seem like a proactive person you should spread the word recruit women to join and make it an active group a sort of safe haven for the women here?


----------



## My Hearse

minimized said:


>


lmfao!


----------



## Persephone The Dread

Halfsleeper said:


> there was a thread about egroups for this forum and I've noticed some girls here are members of a "Womens Support" group. It's private I bet all the women could be invited to join and those guys won't be able to jump in and be a**holes. I don't know why that group isn't used more. It seems a little out of the way but it sure would eliminate the problem of some guys being plain a**holes.


Most of the members of that group moved to an off site group I think, I was never very active there but the group has been inactive for over a year now so that's not an option really. I think that if people want a place to discuss stuff separately though it's a good idea and they could make a new group.


----------



## meepie

Halfsleeper said:


> there was a thread about egroups for this forum and I've noticed some girls here are members of a "Womens Support" group. It's private I bet all the women could be invited to join and those guys won't be able to jump in and be a**holes. I don't know why that group isn't used more. It seems a little out of the way but it sure would eliminate the problem of some guys being plain a**holes.
> @meepie you seem like a proactive person you should spread the word recruit women to join and make it an active group a sort of safe haven for the women here?


There is a group I am apart of and it is offsite for women's issues. It's much easier to say things there, for sure.


----------



## Gojira

Halfsleeper said:


> there was a thread about egroups for this forum and I've noticed some girls here are members of a "Womens Support" group. It's private I bet all the women could be invited to join and those guys won't be able to jump in and be a**holes. I don't know why that group isn't used more. It seems a little out of the way but it sure would eliminate the problem of some guys being plain a**holes.
> @meepie you seem like a proactive person you should spread the word recruit women to join and make it an active group a sort of safe haven for the women here?


From what I hear, the Group's feature is buggy.

It's great to have any type of group though where you identify and relate to people like you, which is why there should be a severe anxiety and severe isolation subforum.

But to use groups to avoid legit criticisms and discussions, is different.


----------



## lisbeth

Grand said:


> I don't even care anymore. It's true. I hate a good portion of men on here because of the way they talk about women + dismissing women's experiences. I get to feel even more abnormal and undesirable on here.


Amen. I'm with you.

So many men on here are sexist pricks who barely see women as people. I've seen so many posts on here from rape apologists/sympathisers and all sorts of misogynistic attitudes... I've seen men online-stalk and sexually harrass female users on here, I've heard plenty about male users sending female users threats on here. Quite a lot of the worst posters have been banned now (I'm sure ladies here will remember some of the people I mean without naming names), but I can think of a few who were doing that stuff for years without being banned. And before anyone pulls the loneliness card, one of the worst of them was a guy in a long term relationship. But those people you can dismiss as weird bad apples. The people who really get under my skin are the men who make the more lowkey sexist posts, the subtly woman-hating attitudes, because it's so everywhere on this site that you can't tune it out. It's like straws piling on a camel's back and it infuriates me. I've read tens of posts on here saying Elliot Rodgers was right, or that rape is caused by loneliness/sexual frustration and is something we should understand, or that being alone justifies hating women. And then they expect us to sympathise with them. I have no sympathy for them. I hate them and I'm afraid of them.

Women experience loneliness and rejection and depression at exactly the same intensity men do. But so many men on here won't even try to empathise or put themselves in another's shoes. Women have to do that every day.


----------



## Jesuszilla

lisbeth said:


> Amen. I'm with you.
> 
> So many men on here are sexist pricks who barely see women as people. *I've seen so many posts on here from rape apologists/sympathisers and all sorts of misogynistic attitudes... I've seen men online-stalk and sexually harrass female users on here, I've heard plenty about male users sending female users threats on here.* Quite a lot of the worst posters have been banned now (I'm sure ladies here will remember some of the people I mean without naming names), but I can think of a few who were doing that stuff for years without being banned. And before anyone pulls the loneliness card, one of the worst of them was a guy in a long term relationship. But those people you can dismiss as weird bad apples. The people who really get under my skin are the men who make the more lowkey sexist posts, the subtly woman-hating attitudes, because it's so everywhere on this site that you can't tune it out. It's like straws piling on a camel's back and it infuriates me. I've read tens of posts on here saying Elliot Rodgers was right, or that rape is caused by loneliness/sexual frustration and is something we should understand, or that being alone justifies hating women. And then they expect us to sympathise with them. I have no sympathy for them. I hate them and I'm afraid of them.
> 
> Women experience loneliness and rejection and depression at exactly the same intensity men do. But so many men on here won't even try to empathise or put themselves in another's shoes. Women have to do that every day.


Aw man I didn't know that was common on here. I would honestly think those were isolated incidents by a handful of members at most.

And that's why I often pull the isolation card because I know I said my share of stupid things before on here that probably weren't helpful or supportive and made me seem like an a** so I understand what loneliness can do.

Now there is a line and stalking, abusing and all that stuff is so far past that line that I don't sympathize with people like that. But those who are lonely and post off the wall comments I can understand their frustration as I see it as frustration over them being dangerous people.

Btw, I don't get the love Elliot Roger gets on this site at all. That is one point where I agree with you big time.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

lisbeth said:


> Amen. I'm with you.
> 
> So many men on here are sexist pricks who barely see women as people.


 This'll help.


----------



## Halfsleeper

Persephone The Dread said:


> Most of the members of that group moved to an off site group I think, I was never very active there but the group has been inactive for over a year now so that's not an option really. I think that if people want a place to discuss stuff separately though it's a good idea and they could make a new group.





meepie said:


> There is a group I am apart of and it is offsite for women's issues. It's much easier to say things there, for sure.


So if they aren't as active that's why it's important to spread the word to get more women to join. meepie you're part of another group but how many girls here know about it?

It was just an idea. I try to be a neutral party in things like this so I probably won't come back to this thread.



Gojira said:


> Cool story


Cool story bro


----------



## Gojira

WillYouStopDave said:


> This'll help.


Bahahahahahaha, you noticed too XD

I've noticed the same bit of a sexist mindset and bitterness from that user for awhile now.

Perfect example of the double standard in Modding and culture that exists here.


----------



## lisbeth

Jesuszilla said:


> Aw man I didn't know that was common on here. I would honestly think those were isolated incidents by a handful of members at most.
> 
> And that's why I often pull the isolation card because I know I said my share of stupid things before on here that probably weren't helpful or supportive and made me seem like an a** so I understand what loneliness can do.
> 
> Now there is a line and stalking, abusing and all that stuff is so far past that line that I don't sympathize with people like that. But those who are lonely and post off the wall comments I can understand their frustration as I see it as frustration over them being dangerous people.


It's less common these days because the mods are more on the ball now, and a lot of the worst members have been banned, but there were some Bad Times here. I remember a thread by one user about him groping a girl on the subway. Eeeeuuuughhhh.

The thing is, I see it as them being dangerous anyway, because I don't think people respond to loneliness/frustration that way unless it's in them to begin with.


----------



## lisbeth

WillYouStopDave said:


> This'll help.


I honestly don't care. I'm not trying to help 'em. I just want them to stay away from me, or to find out who all of them are so I can fill up my ignore list.


----------



## lisbeth

Gojira said:


> Bahahahahahaha, you noticed too XD
> 
> I've noticed the same bit of a sexist mindset and bitterness from that user for awhile now.


I don't hate men. I hate men who hate women. That isn't sexist.


----------



## Gojira

lisbeth said:


> I don't hate men. I hate men who hate women. That isn't sexist.


You pretty generally stated a hatred for men.

Obviously groping issues and things you mentioned are wrong, but you also think any discussions you don't like about women's issues are hate to women, and that's not true.

And then make those statements that pretty broadly attack.


----------



## Jesuszilla

Gojira said:


> You pretty generally stated a hatred for men.


Naw man, I try not to get in between people's discussions but lisbeth is a real nice person and if she says her issue is with men who hate women then I'm inclined to believe her. And this isn't some white knight bs either, I'm just sticking up for a friend who I know isn't full of hate


----------



## lisbeth

Gojira said:


> You pretty generally stated a hatred for men.


Read my post again.



lisbeth said:


> Amen. I'm with you.
> 
> So many men on here are sexist pricks who barely see women as people. I've seen so many posts on here from rape apologists/sympathisers and all sorts of misogynistic attitudes... I've seen men online-stalk and sexually harrass female users on here, I've heard plenty about male users sending female users threats on here. Quite a lot of the worst posters have been banned now (I'm sure ladies here will remember some of the people I mean without naming names), but I can think of a few who were doing that stuff for years without being banned. And before anyone pulls the loneliness card, one of the worst of them was a guy in a long term relationship. But those people you can dismiss as weird bad apples. The people who really get under my skin are the men who make the more lowkey sexist posts, the subtly woman-hating attitudes, because it's so everywhere on this site that you can't tune it out. It's like straws piling on a camel's back and it infuriates me. I've read tens of posts on here saying Elliot Rodgers was right, or that rape is caused by loneliness/sexual frustration and is something we should understand, or that being alone justifies hating women. And then they expect us to sympathise with them. I have no sympathy for them. I hate them and I'm afraid of them.
> 
> Women experience loneliness and rejection and depression at exactly the same intensity men do. But so many men on here won't even try to empathise or put themselves in another's shoes. Women have to do that every day.


I expressed a hatred for men _who:

-_ are sexist
- are rape apologists / rape sympathisers
- have misogynistic attitudes
- online-stalk or sexually harrass women
- send threats
- say Elliot Rodgers was right
- say rape is understandable
- say that it's OK to hate women

That's not men in general. So, like, the only reason for a man to feel persecuted is if he falls in those categories. If he doesn't, no need to take offense, because I'm obviously not talking about him.


----------



## Gojira

Jesuszilla said:


> Naw man, I try not to get in between people's discussions but lisbeth is a real nice person and if she says her issue is with men who hate women then I'm inclined to believe her. And this isn't some white knight bs either, I'm just sticking up for a friend who I know isn't full of hate


Maybe, but I haven't seen that personally.


----------



## meepie

Milco said:


> It's really not that easy - just as it isn't for women. Guys don't automatically get dates by being good people.
> That's to to say people shouldn't try to be good people but just.. argh.. it's not that easy.


Yeah, I know was hyperbolizing it. It's just that I'd rather talk to a guy regardless of his orientation that says oh well you have it easier because you're a girl. That is showing me that person could be someone that I actually respect as a human being because they respect me.


----------



## lisbeth

Jesuszilla said:


> Naw man, I try not to get in between people's discussions but lisbeth is a real nice person and if she says her issue is with men who hate women then I'm inclined to believe her. And this isn't some white knight bs either, I'm just sticking up for a friend who I know isn't full of hate


♥ Thanks Jesus. We've talked a bunch one-on-one, you know what I'm like and what I'm not.


----------



## meepie

Jesuszilla said:


> Naw man, I try not to get in between people's discussions but lisbeth is a real nice person and if she says her issue is with men who hate women then I'm inclined to believe her. And this isn't some white knight bs either, I'm just sticking up for a friend who I know isn't full of hate


:smile2: I agree. She's cool from wha I seen.


----------



## Ominous Indeed

I think Christmas needs to come sooner

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424205/

Trailer:


----------



## Jesuszilla

Gojira said:


> Maybe, but I haven't seen that personally.


I've talked to my share of people on SAS men and women and often times what they post on a thread is hardly a reflection of their actual personality. What she's doing now is responding to posts on this particular thread...but if you talk to her privately you'll see what I see.



lisbeth said:


> ♥ Thanks Jesus. We've talked a bunch one-on-one, you know what I'm like and what I'm not.


You're welcome


----------



## lisbeth

Jesuszilla said:


> I've talked to my share of people on SAS men and women and often times what they post on a thread is hardly a reflection of their actual personality. What she's doing now is responding to posts on this particular thread...but if you talk to her privately you'll see what I see.


Honestly I'm not sure he would. We ruffle each other's feathers.


----------



## Ominous Indeed

I just realized my avatar looks like he wants to give you all a hug. 

<------------------Free hugs.


----------



## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

"How many ladies still haven't had a relationship?"

A few pages later: "I do have a boyfriend"

I've noticed several posters on this thread come up with stuff like " I have a boyfriend but i'm pretty sure other girls have it pretty hard" isn't that extremely hypocritical?

You must be gigantic trolls.


----------



## M0rbid

^ You read my mind. lol Just lock this joke thread already.


----------



## iCod

Ignopius said:


> First off, I would like to begin with men should not be posting things like 'its harder for men' in threads posted by frustrated woman. It's counter-productive. With that being said, I will share my real opinion that's not meant to be politically correct and overly friendly to women.
> 
> Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.
> 
> So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


The clear truth. What an amazing post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lisbeth

thedevilsblood said:


> "How many ladies still haven't had a relationship?"
> 
> A few pages later: "I do have a boyfriend"
> 
> I've noticed several posters on this thread come up with stuff like " I have a boyfriend but i'm pretty sure other girls have it pretty hard" isn't that extremely hypocritical?
> 
> You must be gigantic trolls.


I remember posts in this thread from girls saying they didn't get into a relationship until they were 23/25. I can also think of a female poster on this forum who was still a virgin at 37, not by choice (not sure if she still posts). I can also name plenty of male users who are/have been in relationships, but they're not taken to mean male loneliness doesn't exist.


----------



## Batcat

Thread about gender conflicts becomes gender war opcorn


----------



## SofaKing




----------



## lisbeth

iCod said:


> The clear truth. What an amazing post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


r u serious?


----------



## Charmeleon

Icedout said:


> I think Christmas needs to come sooner


Dude I'm so ready



KyleInSTL said:


>


So much anarchy this morning huh


----------



## iCod

lisbeth said:


> r u serious?


Yes. He isn't some brainwashed PC moron that the mods want. He's saying the clear as hell truth that everyone is too afraid to say because the mods just want protecting this idea that men and women are equal in the dating world when that couldn't be further from the truth.


----------



## SofaKing

RadnessaurousRex said:


> So much anarchy this morning huh


Yeah, and it's getting so tempting to throw a box of marbles out onto the street, too.


----------



## Just Lurking

Yes, as you can see, some of the guys here are excessively hypocritical... lecturing and preaching to everyone about "acceptance", only to turn around and downplay the problems of others (sometimes in the same post or even in the same sentence).

They do not represent the lot of us.


----------



## Ominous Indeed

RadnessaurousRex said:


> Dude I'm so ready
> 
> I'm not sure if you clicked on my link but it's a movie about the first world war. Fighting at the frontline for weeks, the germans and french become friends at christmas eve. It's a beautiful and a true story :crying:


----------



## Darktower776

Well this has all been an interesting read......


----------



## lisbeth

Just Lurking said:


> Yes, as you can see, some of the guys here are excessively hypocritical... lecturing and preaching to everyone about "acceptance", only to turn around and downplay the problems of others (sometimes in the same post or even in the same sentence).
> 
> They do not represent the lot of us.


Too right!


----------



## Darktower776

Just Lurking said:


> Yes, as you can see, some of the guys here are excessively hypocritical... lecturing and preaching to everyone about "acceptance", only to turn around and downplay the problems of others (sometimes in the same post or even in the same sentence).
> 
> *They do not represent the lot of us.*


QFT.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

lisbeth said:


> I honestly don't care. I'm not trying to help 'em. I just want them to stay away from me, or to find out who all of them are so I can fill up my ignore list.


 Well, if that's your thing. I have a lot of people on my ignore list. For various reasons. That's what it's there for.


----------



## Charmeleon

Icedout said:


> I'm not sure if you clicked on my link but it's a movie about the first world war. Fighting at the frontline for weeks, the germans and french become friends at christmas eve. It's beautiful :crying:


Didn't they go right back to killing each other tho



KyleInSTL said:


> Yeah, and it's getting so tempting to throw a box of marbles out onto the street, too.


I don't want this beautiful chaotic moment to ever end


----------



## Ominous Indeed

RadnessaurousRex said:


> Didn't they go right back to killing each other tho
> 
> I don't want this beautiful chaotic moment to ever end


Yes, they did (Some places). Some people refused to shoot whoever they just became friends with.

I was just thinking about this forum. If Christmas eve can stop the first world war for a day(or more), it certainly should stop this war going on right now.

Or is this place worse :laugh:


----------



## alienbird

Men don't express interest in me irl, so I have no one to choose from, as you guys always go on about. I'm in the same exact position as the men on SAS who don't approach women, so like... why are their claims of having trouble getting a relationship somehow more valid than mine?

Not quoting anyone, just saying. Not all women have tons of males wanting to be with them _relationship wise_. Desperate guys willing to have sex with any woman isn't the same thing as someone loving and caring about her, which is the only thing I value.

And if any males want to claim women don't experience isolation, come live my life.

I think that's about it from me.


----------



## meepie

Grand said:


> Men don't express interest in me irl, so I have no one to choose from, as you guys always go on about. I'm in the same exact position as the men on SAS who don't approach women, so like... why are their claims of having trouble getting a relationship somehow more valid than mine?
> 
> Not quoting anyone, just saying. Not all women have tons of males wanting to be with them _relationship wise_. Desperate guys willing to have sex with any woman isn't the same thing as someone loving and caring about her, which is the only thing I value.
> 
> And if any males want to claim women don't experience isolation, come live my life.
> 
> I think that's about it from me.


I sympathize with you. I was like you. Men didn't show any interest in me when I was in high school or college. And my current relationship, I was the one that admitted I liked my boyfriend first, not the other way around. People keep talking about how if you walk out of your house, you will immediately get a hoard of people wanting to date you. I don't see that happening at all. And plus, even more so when my social anxiety was worse, I had even a hard time conversing with people let alone think about dating them.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

lisbeth said:


> Read my post again.
> 
> I expressed a hatred for men _who:
> 
> -_ are sexist
> - are rape apologists / rape sympathisers
> - have misogynistic attitudes
> - online-stalk or sexually harrass women
> - send threats
> - say Elliot Rodgers was right
> - say rape is understandable
> - say that it's OK to hate women
> 
> That's not men in general. So, like, the only reason for a man to feel persecuted is if he falls in those categories.


 The problem here is that you're conflating things that are not that serious with things that are. It IS OK to hate someone. Because that's to do with freedom of thought. A person has a right to think whatever they want. I personally don't hate women (Although I'm sure there are many I would find intolerable) but I take issue with what you're saying here because you're putting stalking, harassment and threats in the same place as the right for a person to think what they want about people. That's just not right. Those things do not belong in the same place.


----------



## Charmeleon

Icedout said:


> I was just thinking about this forum. If Christmas eve can stop the first world war for a day(or more), it certainly should stop this war going on right now.
> 
> Or is this place worse :laugh:


Yeah, probably not gonna happen

The gender wars have been raging on for some time now. With SAS now split and on the brink of civil war and with the escalating threat of the beta uprising/rebellion, I see no peace in our near future.


----------



## Ominous Indeed

RadnessaurousRex said:


> Yeah, probably not gonna happen
> 
> The gender wars have been raging on for some time now. With SAS now split and on the brink of civil war and with the escalating threat of the beta uprising/rebellion, I see no peace in our near future.


I think we need to make a new Thread called Europe, where refugees can escape


----------



## iCod

RadnessaurousRex said:


> Yeah, probably not gonna happen
> 
> The gender wars have been raging on for some time now. With SAS now split and on the brink of civil war and with the escalating threat of the beta uprising/rebellion, I see no peace in our near future.


There will never be peace until everyone on the forum realizes the reality of men vs women on the dating world. If blood must be shed to do so, then so be it. Me and my fellow betamales will do what has to be done in order to get rid of the normies and bring people on this forum back to reality.

Me and my army of beta's are like the goddamn minutemen. We are ready and armed to fight against the Normies in a minute or less. Blood will be shed, users will die, but alas, that it internet war, and war never changes comrade. I look forward to seeing you on the field of battle.

VIVE LE RESISTANCE.


----------



## Jesuszilla

iCod said:


> There will never be peace until everyone on the forum realizes the reality of men vs women on the dating world. If blood must be shed to do so, then so be it. Me and my fellow betamales will do what has to be done in order to get rid of the normies and bring people on this forum back to reality.
> 
> Me and my army of beta's are like the goddamn minutemen. We are ready and armed to fight against the Normies in a minute or less. Blood will be shed, users will die, but alas, that it internet war, and war never changes comrade. I look forward to seeing you on the field of battle.
> 
> VIVE LE RESISTANCE.


I think you can acknowledge the difference men and women face with their dating experiences without turning it into a war.


----------



## lisbeth

WillYouStopDave said:


> The problem here is that you're conflating things that are not that serious with things that are. It IS OK to hate someone. Because that's to do with freedom of thought. A person has a right to think whatever they want. I personally don't hate women (Although I'm sure there are many I would find intolerable) but I take issue with what you're saying here because you're putting stalking, harassment and threats in the same place as the right for a person to think what they want about people. That's just not right. Those things do not belong in the same place.


They do belong in the same place, because the hatred is the thin end of the wedge. Hatred of women is what motivates the stalking/harrassment/threats and worse. Even if someone isn't doing that themselves, tolerating or sympathising with other men doing it is as harmful. Acceptance of the small evils is what makes people think the big ones are okay.

The thing is, I am a woman, so I_ have _to take hatred of women personally. What gets said on SAS doesn't affect me, what gets said and done IRL does. Hatred of women literally makes the world dangerous for us. It's not OK to hate women any more than it's OK to be racist. It's not a victimless crime.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

lisbeth said:


> They do belong in the same place, because the hatred is the thin end of the wedge. Hatred of women is what motivates the stalking/harrassment/threats and worse.


 We'll just have to disagree to disagree then. Just because something can serve as a motive doesn't mean it will. The desire for sex has been known to lead to rape, for example. But it's not wrong just because some people do the wrong thing when they get horny. I really can't stand getting into these kinds of "debates" because the supposition that an emotion is wrong because it has been known to lead to something bad is just dumb. It's understandable but it's fallacious. And to be honest, I know you're smarter than that and you know better.



> The thing is, I am a woman, so I_ have _to take hatred of women personally.


 By the same token, I could say I have to take hatred of men personally (And there absolutely IS a strong culture of man hating in the West). But I don't take it nearly as personally as I probably should. Because I know people are going to think what they want to think and arguing with them and trying to punish them for what amounts to an opinion that I don't like is just going to give them more excuses.

And now I will bow out because I don't have a personal problem with you. I understand your concerns but you're being irrational about it.


----------



## Euthymia

Grand said:


> Men don't express interest in me irl, so I have no one to choose from, as you guys always go on about. I'm in the same exact position as the men on SAS who don't approach women, so like... why are their claims of having trouble getting a relationship somehow more valid than mine?
> 
> Not quoting anyone, just saying. Not all women have tons of males wanting to be with them _relationship wise_. Desperate guys willing to have sex with any woman isn't the same thing as someone loving and caring about her, which is the only thing I value.
> 
> And if any males want to claim women don't experience isolation, come live my life.
> 
> I think that's about it from me.


It's like all the women here are ignoring what is being said.
No one is claiming a man's relationship problems is more valid than a women's.

They have equally VALID problems, just at different quality.


----------



## iCod

Ignopius said:


> Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.


Holy **** if this wasn't so long I would put it in my sig. This is the #1 post on SAS so far. Wow....****ing...I have no words. This is amazing.


----------



## Gojira

lisbeth said:


> Honestly I'm not sure he would. We ruffle each other's feathers.


For sure. But, it's true, posts and actually grgti g to know people often yields different results.


lisbeth said:


> They do belong in the same place, because the hatred is the thin end of the wedge. Hatred of women is what motivates the stalking/harrassment/threats and worse. Even if someone isn't doing that themselves, tolerating or sympathising with other men doing it is as harmful. Acceptance of the small evils is what makes people think the big ones are okay.
> 
> The thing is, I am a woman, so I_ have _to take hatred of women personally. What gets said on SAS doesn't affect me, what gets said and done IRL does. Hatred of women literally makes the world dangerous for us. It's not OK to hate women any more than it's OK to be racist. It's not a victimless crime.


As far as this, the crimes, and harrasment, and threats, etc, all wrong. Only extreme people think those things are acceptable.

The thing is, you can paint with a very broad brush what's sexist and misogynist, and I find that you do paint quite broadly as what is sexist.

You can say that men have different, even more difficult dating experiences and it doesn't mean women don't get difficulty in dating and SA too.

That's not sexist. If anything, denying the reality is sexist.

For example, the women that had difficulty until finding someone at 23, 25, 27, whatever. That's not going to really sway a guy that's 30 and never been on a date because of his anxiety.

And here is the difference. I'm fortunate enough not to be a virgin, and had woah, 1 long term 3 year relationship, and met up with the same girl again a few years ago, but the same problems in the first place were even more clear, so it was short and sweet.

Point is, I can still relate and understand the frustration and even bitterness of guys that have never known what it's like to not feel like a human being because no body wants them.

I know women face the same problem, but differently. Maybe even not as often too. And women don't post their similar frustration here often, so you can't try to understand what you don't see. Maybe that's where the divide comes from.


----------



## Gojira

Euthymia said:


> It's like all the women here are ignoring what is being said.
> No one is claiming a man's relationship problems is more valid than a women's.
> 
> They have equally VALID problems, just at different quality.


Bingo.


----------



## Euthymia

iCod said:


> Holy **** if this wasn't so long I would put it in my sig. This is the #1 post on SAS so far. Wow....****ing...I have no words. This is amazing.


Lol I already beat you to it iCod.

It's really one of the best posts I've seen so far and as soon as it was posted there should be of been no more posts.
It ends the thread.

There is nothing to disagree about.

It is hell a lot easier to receive a gift than to give a gift, which represents the gender dating case

Men have the trouble of not only finding the right gift, but making sure that gift is good and wrapped up nicely for women, and it can still be rejected.

Women? All you've got to do is choose which gift you like best.


----------



## lisbeth

Euthymia said:


> Lol I already beat you to it iCod.
> 
> It's really one of the best posts I've seen so far and as soon as it was posted there should be of been no more posts.
> It ends the thread.
> 
> There is nothing to disagree about.
> 
> It is hell a lot easier to receive a gift than to give a gift, which represents the gender dating case
> 
> Men have the trouble of not only finding the right gift, but making sure that gift is good and wrapped up nicely for women, and it can still be rejected.
> 
> Women? All you've got to do is choose which gift you like best.


Do you think women never get rejected or something?


----------



## PhilipJFry

There's quite a few people who use their anger and bitterness to belittle other people's problems while they look for anyone to validate their pessimism. It makes up about 75% of this forum and is one of the reasons why I rarely post.

Threads about women having it easier or only wanting to date douchebags have been common for a while. It's probably not as bad as it once was but that's saying something.

There's still plenty of people who use this site for support or to offer some support. You just have to drown some of the other stuff out.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

PhilipJFry said:


> Threads about women having it easier or only wanting to date douchebags have been common for a while.


 There's actually a button to ignore threads you can't deal with.


----------



## alienbird

And when women don't get 'selected', then what? 
No one has shown interest in me. No one is choosing me.
You all are ignoring MY experiences and reality.


----------



## PhilipJFry

WillYouStopDave said:


> There's actually a button to ignore threads you can't deal with.


Eh. I just avoid reading most of them.


----------



## Ominous Indeed

Grand said:


> And when women don't get 'selected', then what?
> No one has shown interest in me. No one is choosing me.
> You all are ignoring MY experiences and reality.


Hey, grand, what's up? :laugh:

You look kinda .. Ho..

Btw, keep me out of here. I neutral in this debate.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

PhilipJFry said:


> Eh. I just avoid reading most of them.


 I'm just saying. The button is there for people who really just don't want to see them. Has been for quite a while.


----------



## Euthymia

lisbeth said:


> Do you think women never get rejected or something?


Sigh....
No I didn't say that.


----------



## Gojira

Grand said:


> And when women don't get 'selected', then what?
> No one has shown interest in me. No one is choosing me.
> You all are ignoring MY experiences and reality.


It's not true you are being ignored.

For one, I wish women shared their frustrations like you did, it plays a big part in why guys who are already isolated and don't understand the people around them to begin with, don't understand women; who to them, seem like they must live on another planet, for all practical purposes.

Also, try thinking about what guys are saying on this thread. Have you tried making a dating profile? You'd probably have a pretty good chance at netting someone.

Have you tried meeting a guy here that gets your problems?
*
Because the probability says, you got a decent shot if you try. What the guys are saying is, we can try and try, and still end up a 40 year old virgin.*

That's the point, and maybe if everybody stopped getting hostile and taking offence, they could see the forest for the trees, and actually close the divide.


----------



## harrison

Ignopius said:


> *First off*, I would like to begin with men should not be posting things like 'its harder for men' in threads posted by frustrated woman. It's counter-productive. With that being said, I will share my real opinion that's not meant to be politically correct and overly friendly to women.
> 
> Men are the _pursuers_. A _pursuer_ is someone who is chasing someone or something. Whereas women are the _selectors_, a person who chooses a preference. By very admition of our biological nature as well as the social constructs we have created. They have to impress and show the girl 'what he has to offer'. This is why I empathize with men more. I can empathize with woman too but its for different reasons that are less concrete.
> 
> So a woman is hurt by a cheating partner? But rarely is the story told that this same man has been begging for sex for months and his woman has refused. It's very damaging to a man's self-confidence and self-worth to repeatedly be denied in bed. Most women just care about themselves and how they feel in the circumstance. 'Oh he hurt me' listen girl wake up and take responsibility. He didn't cheat over night it was a long standing either you rejecting or complaining about something. I bet your boyfriend/husband was making a higher salary than you too? And probably works much harder on a day to day basis.


First off - you're 19!

No offence - but this post again shows your age. Have you ever been in a relationship?

And "his woman"?? Are you kidding me?

You guys need to get some experience before you talk about any of this crap.


----------



## harrison

Grand said:


> *And when women don't get 'selected'*, then what?
> No one has shown interest in me. No one is choosing me.
> You all are ignoring MY experiences and reality.


Don't listen to all that nonsense about women being the "selectors" - it's a lot more complicated than that. Men do a lot of "selecting" too.


----------



## iCod

Gojira said:


> *
> Because the probability says, you got a decent shot if you try. What the guys are saying is, we can try and try, and still end up a 40 year old virgin.*
> 
> That's the point, and maybe if everybody stopped getting hostile and taking offence, they could see the forest for the trees, and actually close the divide.


Once again, pure genius in this thread.

Why are the mods and females on here so hellbent on defending this idea that the dating world is equal? Look, it isn't. One gender is more advantaged than the other, and even if for some reason you don't like it or don't feel that way,* that's how it is, and that's how it will remain to be as long as we keep ignoring that it's fact. *Plain and simple. And I'll probably have mod message me for the 20th or so time about the "Who has it better" thing but honestly these things need to be said and put out into the open. I'm just so done with being censored about this topic. (though I don't think I really broke that rule this time. I didn't flat out say "women have it easier" like I usually do so fingers crossed)

How about instead of getting our panties in a twist and trying to go against facts, we just try to see why there is a clear issue in society regarding relationships and men and how we can address this issue so that our children and our children's children wont have to live in a world where some people have an easier time with getting an SO than others purely based upon gender.



don said:


> Don't listen to all that nonsense about women being the "selectors" - it's a lot more complicated than that. Men do a lot of "selecting" too.


Damn, you really missed the point of that post...


----------



## Euthymia

don said:


> Don't listen to all that nonsense about women being the "selectors" - it's a lot more complicated than that. Men do a lot of "selecting" too.


It's getting frustrating when so many posts are being taken out of context and misunderstood. Men can select obviously but that's usually not the case.

I passed 8th grade biology with flying colors. Males in almost every mammal species must fight or compete over women. Women only need to select which male they want.

Stop the stubbornness.


----------



## M0rbid

Human Biology 101. Accept it and move on. NO need for gender war. Dunno know y this thread hasn't been locked it yet.


----------



## alienbird

I don't feel like quoting on mobile.
The problem with me using dating sites or anything online is that eventually I have to meet the guy. I have no interest in a long distance relationship, so I won't date guys on here. Considering the fact that I can't talk to my own extended family members, there is no way I can talk to and make a guy like me in person. And my self-esteem is probably too low to ever date anyway. If a guy said he liked me, I would have trouble believing it. So even if a guy showed interest in me, I wouldn't know what to do. I'm sure he'd lose interest after he realized how deep my fears and problems go.


----------



## harrison

Jeff271 said:


> *I had to put the whole subforum on ignore a while ago.* Gender differences are imaginary inventions of culture. We are not wild animals, we haven't been for thousands of years..


:lol

I know the feeling. I used to want to put the entire site on "ignore" as it's a difficult habit to break coming on here. Threads like these make you realise how absurd a lot of this forum is. It's really hardly worth it.


----------



## Persephone The Dread

Well seeing as this thread has just been going round in circles for pages






You guys need more MSI in your lives.


----------



## harrison

Before any ladies take offence at something a "male" has said on this site regarding their experience with women or dating I would ask them 2 things.

1. How old are you?
2. Have you actually been on a date?

Taking these boy's opinion on dating and women is sort of like asking a priest for marriage advice. Probably a little silly.


----------



## Just Lurking

Gojira said:


> Like, if there are more guys isolated or S.O.less, acknowledge it. It's who has it worse when you say, "What about me??" Instead of acknowledge the numbers.


What exactly do "the numbers" matter relative to the individual's problems?

What help is this to you, and what is it that you're wanting women to say (or 'concede') about it?



Ignopius said:


> The most attractive guy in the world can go outside of his house and get zero girls approaching him. However, do this same thought experiment with a woman and you will see the opposite results; she *will be approached* by numerous men.


Can you point out somewhere where anyone disputes that in a situation where the man and woman are of equal attractiveness and traits, the woman will have an easier time 'scoring'?

What does this have to do with a woman who is talking about her own personal relationship problems?



thedevilsblood said:


> "How many ladies still haven't had a relationship?"
> 
> A few pages later: "I do have a boyfriend"
> 
> I've noticed several posters on this thread come up with stuff like " I have a boyfriend but i'm pretty sure other girls have it pretty hard" isn't that extremely hypocritical?


One girl has a boyfriend. What does that have to do with a woman who's 27 and never been kissed? Because other girls have boyfriends, does that make it appropriate to dismiss issues in her dating life as being "less difficult"?

"You're a woman; just go outside and you'll get laid." Yeah? And who's doing the laying? A real catch, no doubt.



Gojira said:


> For example, the women that had difficulty until finding someone at 23, 25, 27, whatever. That's not going to really sway a guy that's 30 and never been on a date because of his anxiety.


If a woman says she's 27-years-old and never been on a date, what is the purpose of pointing out how there are guys on here who are over 30 and never been on a date, themselves? What does that have to do with her personal situation?

How is this woman attempting to "sway a guy that's 30", and why would she even care about doing that?



Gojira said:


> Seriously, when you think of the phrase "30 year old virgin", you are going to think of a dude in suspenders XD
> 
> Male stereotype.


...A male stereotype *perpetuated in large part by other males*.

For much of what you have to complain about in the world of dating, you have *other men* to blame.


----------



## harrison

Euthymia said:


> It's getting frustrating when so many posts are being taken out of context and misunderstood. Men can select obviously but that's usually not the case.
> 
> I passed 8th grade biology with flying colors. Males in almost every mammal species must fight or compete over women. Women only need to select which male they want.
> 
> Stop the stubbornness.


How old are you and how much experience do you have with women?


----------



## 0blank0

It's not difficult for all men to approach women is it? Mostly for men with SA or shy men? I think a woman is a dick who perfectly knows how to approach a guy, wants the guy to approach her. Like really?...if I was able to do that I would! I think men who are comfortable with approaching women don't mind it. But those who have a tough time, would like the women to. Same goes for women.


----------



## M0rbid

^ Fair point.


----------



## Wings of Amnesty

Wow, I can't believe my comment caused all this. I feel a little bad but, ehhh, no, the way this thread exploded this was clearly just under the surface waiting for an excuse to take off. I don't really know what to say here, this forum obviously has gender problems. I've been on forums with a pretty openly misogynistic userbase, but there weren't women on those, here there are women reading your posts and taking offense. Maybe some guys need to be more mindful of that and vent in a more respectful way.

I guess I just want to comment on the idea that came that bothered me the most. I don't think it's wrong to feel sympathy for guys who say sexist things on here. It's really understandable where they're coming from. Once you acknowledge that your situation is hopeless it's pretty hard to not start to feel angry. It's understandable that it's upsetting to see how some people basically get rescued from their loneliness while others are just going to be ignored. I dont think having sympathy is the same as tolerating or condoning their actions though. And of course, my feeling sympathy for them shouldn't be taken as judging you for not feeling sympathy. I wouldn't expect that, from someone who's their target, and you have every right to be angry. Just remember that someone who feels like your entire gender is oppressing them and trying to make the suffer, is not going to respond well to being told that_they're the ones_ who are hateful or sexist.


----------



## Euthymia

don said:


> How old are you and how much experience do you have with women?


You are using ad hominem fallacies now?
My god the denial in this thread is massive.

How does my age or experience negate facts?

I really cant believe it hasn't been closed by some offended female mod because it happens all the time. As soon as men reveal the differences in women, oh they are all sexist, wrong, and patriarchy.
But when women reveal the differences in men, it's completely fine.


----------



## Mattsy94

Ya'll just shut up and let me give you a hug :b


----------



## McFly

I'm amazed that there are people here actually denying that mating is a competition and that women don't have the upper hand when it comes to choosing their mates. This experience of members here does not accurately represent the full dating spectrum.

I suggest some of you check out the book 'The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature', read Kinsey sex statistics compared by gender or check out this link:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dna-human-gene-pool
*
*


----------



## harrison

Euthymia said:


> You are using ad hominem fallacies now?
> My god the denial in this thread is massive.
> 
> *How does my age or experience negate facts*?
> 
> I really cant believe it hasn't been closed by some offended female mod because it happens all the time. As soon as men reveal the differences in women, oh they are all sexist, wrong, and patriarchy.
> But when women reveal the differences in men, it's completely fine.


We're not talking about fact Einstein - you're giving us your "valued" opinion.


----------



## harrison

Euthymia said:


> You are using ad hominem fallacies now?
> My god the denial in this thread is massive.
> 
> How does my age or experience negate facts?
> 
> I really cant believe it hasn't been closed by some offended female mod because it happens all the time. As soon as men reveal the differences in women, oh they are all sexist, wrong, and patriarchy.
> *But when women reveal the differences in men, it's completely fine*.


How often do you actually see that on here? Or somewhere else on the internet?

What a load of old cobblers - the internet is frequented by children. Is it any wonder older members get sick of the nonsense they see on this site?

You boys need to grow the **** up.

And so many wonderful expressions nowadays - "ad hominem" for when someone actually wants to hear of personal experience, red pill blue pill, the gender divide??

You people are laughable.


----------



## Just Lurking

McFly said:


> I'm amazed that there are people here actually denying that mating is a competition and that women don't have the upper hand when it comes to choosing their mates.


Who has 'denied that mating is a competition'?

Who has denied that women don't have an upper hand in mate selection?

There are people harping on it ad nauseam as if it has everything to do with any given individual woman's dating situation, and there are women here stating that said 'harping' is negatively affecting their experience on the site, but who's disputing it?

What does any of it have to do with a 27-year-old woman talking about how she's never been on a date?


----------



## harrison

@Just Lurking - good for you for trying to make these boys see a bit of sense.

You're much more patient than I'll ever be. 

My favourite expression on here would have to be "White Knighting". I wonder which 18 year old thought up that one. If I hear that again I think I'll probably throw up.


----------



## regimes

Gojira said:


> First, she's calling you a sexist because of the hypocrisy. You can criticize men's actions, and it's fine. If you made the same level of criticism about women's issues, it's sexism - double standard. With those kinds of protections, I'm not sure what the frustration is completely about, as it's easier to express yourself.
> 
> Second, the bold, perfect. This is a thread criticizing men. It's not like it's a frustration thread about anxiety problems women have. I DO WANT TO SEE MORE OF THOSE.
> 
> The lack of female frustration threads just talking about being alone and isolated and expressing the same feelings and experiences men have is a large portion of the reason why isolated guys, with very little life experience as it is, are unable to relate to those women with similar SA issues in the first place.
> 
> You can't relate with someone you don't know exists because of your isolation and them actually not posting the same problems to relate with.
> 
> It takes threads like these for the girls to finally come out with their isolation stories, which is a shame. But a good chunk of the lack of relating is due to there being no visible stories to relate to :stu





McFly said:


> I'm amazed that there are people here actually denying that mating is a competition and that women don't have the upper hand when it comes to choosing their mates. This experience of members here does not accurately represent the full dating spectrum.
> 
> I suggest some of you check out the book 'The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature', read Kinsey sex statistics compared by gender or check out this link:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dna-human-gene-pool
> *
> *


i'm gonna take ya'lls advice and block these dudes b/c they're like










like i appreciate some of the guys that have been genuinely understanding and replied to my original post with sympathy and reason. but some of the things that other guys here say just makes me feel SO unwelcome here.


----------



## Ignopius

felicshagrace said:


> It's not difficult for all men to approach women is it? Mostly for men with SA or shy men? I think a woman is a dick who perfectly knows how to approach a guy, wants the guy to approach her. Like really?...if I was able to do that I would! I think men who are comfortable with approaching women don't mind it. But those who have a tough time, would like the women to. Same goes for women.


I agree. But the fact is women, having the problem of not being able to approach men and the converse of men not being able to approach women are *NOT* equal. If a man can't approach a woman, he will remain single forever. The same is not true about a woman unable to approach men.

Listen I think many people are not fully understanding my position here. I do not believe in all aspects of dating and relationships that women have it easier than men. But in the category of impressing women and finding dates it is much harder and more pressure on the man. I'm not going to lie or downplay myself to political correctness as many men have done here. Just be honest and admit that one fact. It doesn't mean you condone other men trivializing individual women's problems on this site.


----------



## harrison

@regimes

The only way to survive on this forum is to either use the ignore feature very liberally or take quite a lot of medication.

Edit: that's a very funny gif btw.


----------



## regimes

don said:


> @regimes
> 
> The only way to survive on this forum is to either use the ignore feature very liberally or take quite a lot of medication.
> 
> Edit: that's a very funny gif btw.


i know right? where is the ignore button btw?

and haha it's from a show called veep. it so hits the nail on the head.


----------



## Ignopius

McFly said:


> I'm amazed that there are people here actually denying that mating is a competition and that women don't have the upper hand when it comes to choosing their mates. This experience of members here does not accurately represent the full dating spectrum.
> 
> I suggest some of you check out the book 'The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature', read Kinsey sex statistics compared by gender or check out this link:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dna-human-gene-pool
> *
> *


Also there is a higher percentage of unmarried men than women. Which is worth noting. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/

Men overall have more competition. They are competing first of all with older and more attractive men and secondly those more dominant men who have gotten divorce and just remarried the other women resulting in the weaker and less dominant men just getting the shorter end of the stick with regards to love.

People are really idiots when it comes to this issue. They think its a 'balanced' debate when its really just completely one sided. I'm writing a research paper on this right now for college. Eventually one day I will publish a book. Men need to wake up and start revolting. We can't just let women have everything in this world. And subjugate ourselves and our own happiness to them.


----------



## McFly

Just Lurking said:


> Who has 'denied that mating is a competition'?
> 
> Who has denied that women don't have an upper hand in mate selection?
> 
> There are people harping on it ad nauseam as if it has everything to do with any given individual woman's dating situation, and there are women here stating that said 'harping' is negatively affecting their experience on the site, but who's disputing it?


It's pretty obvious by some posts in this thread, although not all necessarily say it outright. I'm not going to go back and multi-quote them for you though. You're going to find them yourself.



> What does any of it have to do with a 27-year-old woman talking about how she's never been on a date?


You obviously haven't been paying attention, because the topic has diverted from scolding men about their complaints with women and their lack of dating, to whether or not females have an upper hand in dating.


----------



## Charmeleon

don said:


> @regimes
> 
> The only way to survive on this forum is to either use the ignore feature very liberally or take quite a lot of medication.


Or just never take anything seriously


----------



## McFly

regimes said:


> i'm gonna take ya'lls advice and block these dudes b/c they're like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like i appreciate some of the guys that have been genuinely understanding and replied to my original post with sympathy and reason. but some of the things that other guys here say just makes me feel SO unwelcome here.


Have a nice life, honey.


----------



## regimes

Ignopius said:


> Also there is a higher percentage of unmarried men than women. Which is worth noting. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/
> 
> Men overall have more competition. They are competing first of all with older and more attractive men and secondly those more dominant men who have gotten divorce and just remarried the other women resulting in the weaker and less dominant men just getting the shorter end of the stick with regards to love.
> 
> People are really idiots when it comes to this issue. They think its a 'balanced' debate when its really just completely one sided. I'm writing a research paper on this right now for college. Eventually one day I will publish a book. Men need to wake up and start revolting. We can't just let women have everything in this world. And subjugate ourselves and our own happiness to them.


like i said:


----------



## Milco

don said:


> Before any ladies take offence at something a "male" has said on this site regarding their experience with women or dating I would ask them 2 things.
> 
> 1. How old are you?
> 2. Have you actually been on a date?
> 
> Taking these boy's opinion on dating and women is sort of like asking a priest for marriage advice. Probably a little silly.


I do agree with the age thing - and younger people (no offence intended) do tend to view things more black and white - but it can be hard getting experience and dates if you get rejected a lot.
But if a person constantly gets rejected, isn't that experience in itself and doesn't that enable the person to at least say what the people they've known haven't wanted?
Else you kind of end up with a skewed picture. For example, those that say how easy it is to find dates if you just go out there and work on it, are usually those that do have dating experience themselves, but others can tell that just doing those things won't automatically do it and it can still be really hard with a lot of rejection that can be hard to deal with.
When anybody judges other people's situations based on their own viewpoint, it's really easy to misjudge and see the answers as much easier than they really are, but it really goes both ways.



felicshagrace said:


> Like really?...if I was able to do that I would! I think men who are comfortable with approaching women don't mind it. But those who have a tough time, would like the women to. Same goes for women.


Would be nice, yeah :b
I find it really difficult asking people out in person or on the phone, so others asking me out would help with that some.
Though ultimately, if things aren't working out for you, you will eventually have to put in the work yourself to try to make it happen. No guarantee that it will, but what else can you do?


----------



## Euthymia

don said:


> How often do you actually see that on here? Or somewhere else on the internet?
> 
> What a load of old cobblers - the internet is frequented by children. Is it any wonder older members get sick of the nonsense they see on this site?
> 
> You boys need to grow the **** up.
> 
> And so many wonderful expressions nowadays - "ad hominem" for when someone actually wants to hear of personal experience, red pill blue pill, the gender divide??
> 
> You people are laughable.


What is this? A contest on who can insult each other better or who can deny the truth harder?
I'm not going to go too much into why because it's off topic but you need to look at the latest news...
Link

Also that wasn't a wonderful expression.....
My age or experience has nothing to do with how mating works...

I legit learned in 8th grade biology how males and females mate. Why are you denying this so hard?


----------



## Jesuszilla

don said:


> Before any ladies take offence at something a "male" has said on this site regarding their experience with women or dating I would ask them 2 things.
> 
> 1. How old are you?
> 2. Have you actually been on a date?
> 
> Taking these boy's opinion on dating and women is sort of like asking a priest for marriage advice. Probably a little silly.


I probably have more experience than most men here given I have pushed myself to talk to women and been on dates and had a girlfriend and honestly if I stayed in the position I was of being too scared to try I'd still have no experience ever.

Btw, I am no dating expert by any means but I will say this that putting myself out there has changed my perspective a lot. But I still did a ton of work to get where I'm at (truth be told I still feel like I'm not that good at the dating world)



Just Lurking said:


> *What exactly do "the numbers" matter relative to the individual's problems?*


Yes, that's the point I wanted to get across in this thread.


----------



## regimes

thedevilsblood said:


> "How many ladies still haven't had a relationship?"
> 
> A few pages later: "I do have a boyfriend"
> 
> I've noticed several posters on this thread come up with stuff like " I have a boyfriend but i'm pretty sure other girls have it pretty hard" isn't that extremely hypocritical?
> 
> You must be gigantic trolls.


excuse you??? you have no idea what my experiences were before i got a boyfriend. and me looking out for other ladies that have had similar experiences is not hypocritical; it's considerate, which you certainly are not being.

get out of here


----------



## Ignopius

regimes said:


> like i said:


It's funny because if we just went by your initial statement then we were in complete agreement that men should not be posting on women's frustration trivializing their problems.

Our disagreement comes from your ad hominem attacks on calling me as a sexist. It all boils down to you having a disagreement with me on the nature of dating and why I believe its harder for men in the majority of cases. So instead of refuting my argument you just name call and post GIF messages.


----------



## Jesuszilla

felicshagrace said:


> It's not difficult for all men to approach women is it? Mostly for men with SA or shy men? I think a woman is a dick who perfectly knows how to approach a guy, wants the guy to approach her. Like really?...if I was able to do that I would! I think men who are comfortable with approaching women don't mind it. But those who have a tough time, would like the women to. Same goes for women.


It's very difficult to approach and from what I've seen the guys who tend to be able to approach women easy has a lot of confidence.

I like to use my brother as an example because women have always gravitated towards to him while I didn't get my first girlfriend until 24.

When we lived together before meeting his current gf, he used to bring home a new girl every weekend it seemed like...while I was too scared to push myself to even talk to a girl until I was about 22-23.

But the thing is simply talking to a girl often isn't good enough. So many times I've been nervous and stuttering etc which just made me asking a girl out a mess. Or I'd ask a really stupid question or jump right into asking for a girl's number.

And through all the rejection I got maybe 2 numbers/dates from asking women out way. And rejection is tough as hell and takes a while to get over. So yes, it's very hard and having SA or being shy tends to make things worse.

I remember trying to work up the courage to even say "hi" to a girl as I looked at her, been all awkward and honestly probably came off as a stalker as I kept staring at her trying to get the nerves to talk to her...that isn't going to win any woman over.

I can go on and on about my stories but I think I made my point that asking a girl is extremely hard and the chances of being rejected are so much higher than not being rejected that I honestly don't blame men or women for not having the courage to ask people out


----------



## Just Lurking

McFly said:


> the topic has diverted from scolding men about their complaints with women and their lack of dating, to whether or not females have an upper hand in dating.


Yes, it has.

It's a regular routine here -- you could make a thread about your favourite kind of breakfast or what kind of clothing you like to knit, and it can turn into _"how 'females' have the upper hand in dating"_ because the bitterness in some people here just seems to spew out of them pretty much uncontrollably.

And what does it lead to:



regimes said:


> some of the things that other guys here say just makes me feel SO unwelcome here.


^ Sentiments like that. She's not the only one.

I've asked about six different people, and no one's answered: How does any of this apply to any given individual woman's dating problems? The thread may have turned as it usually does, but that doesn't need to stop anyone from answering.


----------



## Wings of Amnesty

Jesuszilla said:


> It's very difficult to approach and from what I've seen the guys who tend to be able to approach women easy has a lot of confidence.
> 
> I like to use my brother as an example because women have always gravitated towards to him while I didn't get my first girlfriend until 24.
> 
> When we lived together before meeting his current gf, he used to bring home a new girl every weekend it seemed like...while I was too scared to push myself to even talk to a girl until I was about 22-23.
> 
> *But the thing is simply talking to a girl often isn't good enough. So many times I've been nervous and stuttering etc which just made me asking a girl out a mess. Or I'd ask a really stupid question or jump right into asking for a girl's number.*
> 
> And through all the rejection I got maybe 2 numbers/dates from asking women out way. And rejection is tough as hell and takes a while to get over. So yes, it's very hard and having SA or being shy tends to make things worse.
> 
> I remember trying to work up the courage to even say "hi" to a girl as* I looked at her, been all awkward and honestly probably came off as a stalker as I kept staring at her trying to get the nerves to talk to her.*..that isn't going to win any woman over.
> 
> I can go on and on about my stories but I think I made my point that asking a girl is extremely hard and the chances of being rejected are so much higher than not being rejected that I honestly don't blame men or women for not having the courage to ask people out


Exactly! There is so much against us finding anyone. It's not enough to just man up. As a guy, you really need to have "cured" your SA in order to date. It's just not going to happen no matter how hard you try.


----------



## regimes

WillYouStopDave said:


> The desire for sex has been known to lead to rape, for example. But it's not wrong just because some people do the wrong thing when they get horny.


...did you just say rape is not wrong?


----------



## Jesuszilla

Wings of Amnesty said:


> Exactly! There is so much against us finding anyone. It's not enough to just man up. As a guy, you really need to have "cured" your SA in order to date. It's just not going to happen no matter how hard you try.


You don't necessarily have to have your SA "cured" but getting to the point where you're comfortable with a girl to ask her out isn't easy. Trust me man, even after getting a gf my SA wasn't even close to cured as the reason we broke up is that my issues with SA got in the way of it.


----------



## Euthymia

Just Lurking said:


> Yes, it has.
> ^ Sentiments like that. She's not the only one.
> 
> I've asked about six different people, and no one's answered: How does any of this apply to any given individual woman's dating problems? The thread may have turned as it usually does, but that doesn't need to stop anyone from answering.


Of course saying things people don't want to hear or don't like is going to make them uncomfortable, but what makes people even more uncomfortable is when you vehemently deny truth and call people sexist or ignorant.

OP made the claim that guys are erasing or not caring about women's SA experiences. That's completely false. Men on this thread have already admitting to empathize/sympathize with women and their SA.

Just because I believe men struggle more doesn't mean I don't care about women's SA experiences, which OP seems to imply, which is where the disagreement started.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

regimes said:


> ...did you just say rape is not wrong?


 I don't think you read what I wrote properly. I obviously did not say that.

What I meant was getting horny is not wrong even though getting horny has been known to cause some people to commit rape.

That was my response to the person who said that hatred belongs in the same category as rape because it has caused some people to rape.


----------



## regimes

WillYouStopDave said:


> I don't think you read what I wrote properly. I obviously did not say that.


you literally followed up with "but it's not wrong that people make bad choices when they're horny"


----------



## Just Lurking

Euthymia said:


> Of course saying things people don't want to hear or don't like is going to make them uncomfortable, but what makes people even more uncomfortable is when you vehemently deny truth


I've already asked -- I'll ask again, who in here is denying that women have the upper hand in "mate selection"?

There are about 240 comments to choose from. If the "truth" is being so vehemently denied, it should be pretty easy to find one.



Euthymia said:


> and call people sexist or ignorant.


Those labels were *warranted* in response to some nonsense comments about cheating in relationships.


----------



## McFly

Just Lurking said:


> Yes, it has.
> 
> It's a regular routine here -- you could make a thread about your favourite kind of breakfast or what kind of clothing you like to knit, and it can turn into _"how 'females' have the upper hand in dating"_ because the bitterness in some people here just seems to spew out of them pretty much uncontrollably.


Definitely agree with you on that one sir.

While I do agree with the op's message, that guys shouldn't give female sassers a hard time in regards to their inexperienced in dating and sex. The message is twisted when members start refuting that females are often put on a pedestal here.

@Ignopius

Thanks for the link, the dating game is getting harder for guys, especially now that women are filling their roles in the work place and education. While I'm not into a revolt like the mgtow guys suggest, it's important that people are aware of how difficult it can be for guys that are trying their best but don't meet up to a woman's standards anymore.


----------



## regimes

WillYouStopDave said:


> I don't think you read what I wrote properly. I obviously did not say that.
> 
> What I meant was getting horny is not wrong even though getting horny has been known to cause some people to commit rape.
> 
> That was my response to the person who said that hatred belongs in the same category as rape because it has caused some people to rape.


you needed to phrase that differently because it literally sounded like you were making excuses for rapists and that is DISGUSTING.


----------



## WillYouStopDave

regimes said:


> you literally followed up with "but it's not wrong that people make bad choices when they're horny"


 That is not what I wrote. You changed the wording. But I can see how you might have thought that's what I was saying. I could have made what I was trying to say more clear but I will do it now. I was in the middle of editing my last post when you quoted me so you made this post before I clarified what I meant. I'll try to get it right without having to edit it this time.

The person I was talking to said hatred is wrong because it has caused some people to bad things. What I was trying to say is that the desire to have sex has caused some people to commit rape. But just because the desire to have sex has caused some people to commit rape, that doesn't mean the desire to have sex is wrong. What they did was wrong. There are many millions of people who are sexually frustrated but they aren't necessarily going to go out and commit rape.

It's as simple as that. Thoughts are not actions and hatred is not going to necessarily cause a person to do anything wrong.


----------



## Twelve Keyz

tbh, I've never seen females on here complain about issues with getting into relationships. I know they exist because obviously not every woman gets pursued. But I think they are a minority or are too insecure to discuss it. You can see how that might lead guys to this conclusion.


----------



## regimes

WillYouStopDave said:


> That is not what I wrote. You changed the wording. But I can see how you might have thought that's what I was saying. I could have made what I was trying to say more clear but I will do it now. I was in the middle of editing my last post when you quoted me so you made this post before I clarified what I meant. I'll try to get it right without having to edit it this time.
> 
> The person I was talking to said hatred is wrong because it has caused some people to bad things. What I was trying to say is that the desire to have sex has caused some people to commit rape. But just because the desire to have sex has caused some people to commit rape, that doesn't mean the desire to have sex is wrong. What they did was wrong. There are many millions of people who are sexually frustrated but they aren't necessarily going to go out and commit rape.
> 
> It's as simple as that. Thoughts are not actions and hatred is not going to necessarily cause a person to do anything wrong.


yeah, after you explained i went back and realized that was what you meant. but the way you phrased it made me read it like that and i was legitimately distressed for a minute.

but i would say hatred does cause people to do wrong things. like lynching for example, murder. and when enough people echo the same hateful sentiment, they can feel justified in their hateful actions. when there are loads of guys going "women are all the same / they're just *****es" or along those lines the people capable of doing bad things are going to feel justified in doing them. being horny isn't wrong, but believing you're entitled to sex and that all women are just trying to make it hard on you could lead to rape. (not you personally of course, you in a general way i mean)


----------



## CopadoMexicano

lol


----------



## McFly

I'm bowing out, but this thread has been loads of fun. Will continue to watch the excitement


----------



## Charmander

I was going to join in, but 13 pages. **** that...


----------



## WillYouStopDave

regimes said:


> yeah, after you explained i went back and realized that was what you meant. but the way you phrased it made me read it like that and i was legitimately distressed for a minute.


 But again, that part you quoted was taken out of context. It was a rather poorly worded statement that was chopped out of a much larger post. In the context of the rest of the post, it is clear what I was trying to say even if I didn't word that specific part of it as well as I could have. I realized it after I'd posted it and I suspected someone might read it wrong but usually when I try to edit things here someone quotes me before I finish anyway and it ends up being a mess so I just left it.



> but i would say hatred does cause people to do wrong things. like lynching for example, murder.


 No. It coincides with the fact that SOME people do bad things.


----------



## Euthymia

Just Lurking said:


> I've already asked -- I'll ask again, who in here is denying that women have the upper hand in "mate selection"?
> 
> There are about 240 comments to choose from. If the "truth" is being so vehemently denied, it should be pretty easy to find one.
> 
> Those labels were *warranted* in response to some nonsense comments about cheating in relationships.


OP has said it and implied it several times.

OP's first post


regimes said:


> i've seen a lot of dudes on this forum say "girls with SA can get dates anyway cause they don't have to work up the nerve to ask guys out" or things along that line.......


OP response to a user claiming men have it worse.


regimes said:


> isn't it tedious to be this sexist and narrow-minded?
> 
> i also like how you say "men shouldn't post that" and then proceed to post that.


Then followed by users saying that men are simply dissing women's experience simply for that belief and calling us sexist and believing women aren't human beings. If no one said that in this thread then there wouldn't of been such an argument

Even if I did just didn't care about a woman's SAS experience how does that make me sexist and mean I don't see women as human beings?


----------



## M0rbid

Don't bother. Use the ignore function.


----------



## LostinReverie

Twelve Keyz said:


> tbh, I've never seen females on here complain about issues with getting into relationships. I know they exist because obviously not every woman gets pursued. But I think they are a minority or are too insecure to discuss it. You can see how that might lead guys to this conclusion.


Seriously? Are my posts not working or something? I say it all the time, even in this thread I did. Thank you, and all of society, for blatantly ignoring me.


----------



## Twelve Keyz

LostInReverie said:


> Seriously? Are my posts not working or something? I say it all the time, even in this thread I did. Thank you, and all of society, for blatantly ignoring me.


I didn't read past the first page and I don't visit this section often. I'm not ignoring you. As I said, I know females like you exist. But I can see why guys get the impression that they don't (i.e. you are in the minority).


----------



## LostinReverie

It was on the first page :roll


----------



## Twelve Keyz

LostInReverie said:


> It was on the first page :roll


well this is awkward.


----------



## Robot the Human

Holy Jesus, this thread is boomin'.

I'm having trouble understanding this thread completely. I've read it a lot and I still don't completely understand it, if it's something new. All I know is that people get all huffy and tend to blame an entire category of people for things, which is Stupid Move 101. The Relationship section always seems to be male vs. female, but then again I don't usually dwell in certain sections for a reason.


----------



## The Dark Knight

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f26/announcement-board-guidelines-updated-06-08-15.html

*Bigotry*
Any content which is deemed by the staff to contain racial, sexual, religious, or any other kind of bigotry will be locked, edited or removed. *This includes excessive gender stereotyping and inciting or engaging in gender "wars."*


----------

