# MLB 2012 thread



## anonymid

Spring training starts this week for most teams, so I'm ready to start talking some baseball. :yes

So, share your hopes, dreams, fears, and predictions for the upcoming season here . . .


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## red wrinkle

All I can say is go diamond backs, great thing about baseball is the after noon naps


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## Ironpain

Personally as far as The Jays are concerned, I'm hoping their Pitching can be productive, we still have Brett Cecil and Ricky Romero but in spring training they are really hoping to see some productive pitching, I predict another great batting season from Jose Bautista, I just hope that I'm right and he performs to a higher level than last year, my biggest fear is that it will be the same as it always is, the Jays always in the same ranking, We are in the same division as The Yankees and Red Sox.


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## matty

I enjoyed watching the Jays last season. Looking forward to the season starting and would love to get down to seattle a few times to catch some games. Don't think it will happen but I hope it does.


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## coldsorehighlighter

Simply put, I can not wait for April. Spring training makes me giddy, but only for a day or two, and then I realize it's another month until real games start.

It's going to be an interesting year though. 
Pujols in LA. 
Fielder in Detroit and Braun facing possible 50 game suspension could make for a long year for the Brew Crew. 
Papelbon in Philly, Bobby V in Boston. 
A full season of Stephen Strasburg, hopefully. 
A full season of Brett Lawrie, in Toronto.
Am I the only one who thinks Tampa will win the East behind that pitching staff?
We won't have to look at the ugliest player in the league, John Lackey.

And for the always popular "way to early World Series prediction":

Philadelphia vs Boston


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## Lmatic3030

SF Giants <3


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## Noely G

SF Giants fan and I live in Boston. Wear my AUTHENTIC Tim Lincecum jersey that I paid $240 for with a ton of pride. Also, it helps with my SA lol. People always ask me about the jersey. So nice


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## anonymid

the cheat said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Tampa will win the East behind that pitching staff?


Yeah, I can definitely see it too: Price, Shields, Moore, Hellickson . . . that is just scary good. Throw in the great defense that they always put out there, and they will be very tough to score against. And I'm thinking Evan Longoria might be my pick for AL MVP this year . . .

I think I saw that the Vegas line for the Rays is 87.5 wins this year. Sounds like a pretty tempting "over" to take . . .


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## anonymid

the cheat said:


> A full season of Stephen Strasburg, hopefully.


Just saw today that Stras is going to be on a strict 150-160 IP limit. So not quite yet, unfortunately.


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## NWZ

Hoping for a third place finnish for my Seattle Mariners! In all seriousness this season will be a success/failure based on how our young players develop.


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## mbg1411

Huge Braves fan. I dont think they will be any worse than last season.

My biggest fear is that Jason Heyward will end up being a dud. So much hype in that guy. He did awesome his rookie season. Hanson Im still waiting for him to break out the bad assery. He was someone I thought was going to be a 20win/270K+ guy (last seaon in triple A he had what 190Ks in 130-140 innings). Hudson, Jones are both getting old. Uggla I think will start out better.

If they can stay heathly I think they'll make the playoffs. If not itll be another 2011.


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## mbg1411

I was wrong on that Hanson statement. Dont know why I thought he was THAT good in AAA


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## Ironpain

Thoughts on Pujols as an Angel, Fielder as a Tiger? going with Fielder, what are your predictions for him as a tiger, I think he has the potential to be just as if not more productive here than he was with Milwaukee, as for Pujol's, his batting average probably will be a little less than last year. Better Second Baseman? Cano or Pedoria? You don't get to vote Anonymid lol cause I know who you're going to pick lmao, jk but that's a tough one, I say Cano.


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## anonymid

^ Ha, well, I'll give my two cents on that anyway. Cano has better power, but that's his only major advantage over Pedroia. They hit for about the same average (Cano, career .308; Pedroia, career .305), but Dustin draws a lot more walks, steals a lot more bases, and is the better defender. So, I know who I'm going with. 

As for Fielder, I don't know . . . he's going to a tougher park for hitters, so I'm not sure I'd expect better offensive numbers. On defense, though--goodness, the Tigers are going to be terrible on the infield. Cabrera at third, Prince at first? Yikes. Won't be a big deal for Verlander since he's a big strikeout guy, but if I'm a guy like Fister or Porcello who relies on getting groundball outs, I'm going to be a bit nervous pitching in front of that D.

Pujols will be his usual self, I'm sure. Even if he's declined slightly, he's still probably the best hitter in the game, or close to it. He just had a slump (by his standards) in the first half last year. In the second half he batted .319 and slugged .584, so I think he's fine, and will keep it going in LA (for the first few years of that contract, at least). (And if I were an Angels fan, I'd be rooting for a full season of Mike Trout, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.)


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## mr rager

As far as the Giants go, I'm hoping that the new additions in the outfield (Pagan and Cabrera) will boost the offense enough to get us into the post season once again. Pitching as always is solid (and top two rotations in baseball) even after we lost Jonathan Sanchez, can't wait for the season to start so we can kick some Dodger butt. GO Giants!!


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## Samtrix

Rangers vs Phillies for the WS

As for the best second baseman, I'm going with Kinsler.


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## Vance

Phillies baby


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## Ironpain

Am I the only person unaware that Tim WakeField retired? Watching closely now to see how Boston manages to overcome the nightmare that was last year, show that they can overcome last years dismal fall from grace or how ever you want to look at it.


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## srschirm

Hoping Detroit lives up to their billing.


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## anonymid

Samtrix said:


> As for the best second baseman, I'm going with Kinsler.


Yeah, a case can definitely be made for Kinsler, and I'd take him over Cano for sure. Hits for great power, draws a lot of walks (actually had a higher OBP than Cano despite a much lower AVG), doesn't strike out much, steals a ton of bases (and rarely gets caught), and is a great fielder. He doesn't consistently hit for a high average like the other two guys do, so that's probably why he gets underrated. Plus, because he bats leadoff, he doesn't get the same RBI opportunities that Cano does. He's had injury problems in the past, so he hasn't played many full seasons, but when he's healthy, I think he's as good as anybody at the position.

Ben Zobrist is another 2B who I think gets very underrated.


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## anonymid

So, it looks like Roy Oswalt isn't going to sign with anybody for the time being, and might take the first half of the season off. He's still got some quality innings left in the tank, so it'll be interesting to see what happens with him come midseason.


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## WhoDey85

There's high hopes for the Reds this year with them getting stronger and STL and MIL losing some players. Do you know how much of a relief it is to no longer have Albert Pujols in the division.:clap


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## srschirm

I think Oswalt is one of those guys who wants to do things on his own terms. I also think he has some gas in the tank.


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## anonymid

srschirm said:


> I think Oswalt is one of those guys who wants to do things on his own terms. I also think he has some gas in the tank.


Yeah . . . I would really love for the Red Sox to get him, but I don't think he wants to pitch in Boston.


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## Ironpain

I can't see Josh Hamilton being anymore productive than he was last year, didn't he have a relapse sometime this year? maybe he almost did but anyways I don't know how Josh Hamilton is going to fair, is he going to get walked more so than last year, is he looking at a lower RBI season, what exactly is going to happen with good ole Josh Hamilton. As a Canadian I look forward to seeing Joey Votto, a product of Canada.


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## Ironpain

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120223&content_id=26813960&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

What does everyone think about Ryan Braun having his suspension overturned, Ryan Braun's suspension was overturned by a Panel, will it make him an even bigger target for suspicion, how does this effect him in other people's eyes now? people might think it was thrown under the rug. What ever happens I think he'll just go on playing and hitting big numbers and continuing to show case himself again.


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## srschirm

anonymid said:


> Yeah . . . I would really love for the Red Sox to get him, but I don't think he wants to pitch in Boston.


Same with me and Detroit.


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## srschirm

Ironpain said:


> http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120223&content_id=26813960&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
> 
> What does everyone think about Ryan Braun having his suspension overturned, Ryan Braun's suspension was overturned by a Panel, will it make him an even bigger target for suspicion, how does this effect him in other people's eyes now? people might think it was thrown under the rug. What ever happens I think he'll just go on playing and hitting big numbers and continuing to show case himself again.


Wow this is the first I've heard of this. I'm happy, as I like the Brewers.

I'm not really a huge steroid-demonizer to begin with, so it's pretty much whatever to me. I think his general reputation will recover nicely, though.


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## anonymid

srschirm said:


> I'm not really a huge steroid-demonizer to begin with, so it's pretty much whatever to me.


Same here; it's just not something I get riled up about.

That said, I am glad that home runs are down, and that run-scoring is down in general. So, to the extent that steroids played a role in the inflated offense of the recent past, I'm glad they're less prevalent now. Steroids were hardly the only factor in that, though.


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## Silent Image

I'm an O's fan and I don't want your pity


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## Ironpain

Silent Image said:


> I'm an O's fan and I don't want your pity


 Aww there there now, I know I know, Pats head, we have the Jays, we know we know Just kidding with you, you are not alone, plenty of O's fan's get Pity'd, anytime your at the bottom of the barrel you get that person who says shame poor fans.


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## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> Yeah, I can definitely see it too: Price, Shields, Moore, Hellickson . . . that is just scary good. Throw in the great defense that they always put out there, and they will be very tough to score against. And I'm thinking Evan Longoria might be my pick for AL MVP this year . . .
> 
> I think I saw that the Vegas line for the Rays is 87.5 wins this year. Sounds like a pretty tempting "over" to take . . .


I wish the Rays would move to a city that deserved to have a team like that. The fans didn't support the Rays when they were bad, but they aren't supporting them when they're good, either. There are a myriad of reasons for that, a bad stadium in a bad spot, in a bad economy...but that's not changing anytime soon. Move them...and move them as far west as possible(if you know what I mean haha).

Oh, April...you are so close...yet so far away. I'm excited that Boston opens in Toronto.


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## srschirm

anonymid said:


> Same here; it's just not something I get riled up about.
> 
> That said, I am glad that home runs are down, and that run-scoring is down in general. So, to the extent that steroids played a role in the inflated offense of the recent past, I'm glad they're less prevalent now. Steroids were hardly the only factor in that, though.


Couldn't agree more.

I'm more at odds with what a guy like Pete Rose did.


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## HarryStanluv25

I LOVE baseball!! It's the only sport I actually like, the others I could care less about. My team is the Angels . I have been a fan of baseball for a little while, since 2009 I'd say. The family is Angels' fans so so am I! And this year shall be killer!!! So cannot wait for it to start again. Oh, I have a lil' crush on Peter Bourjos lol. For the National League I root for the Rockies (I have family in Colorado) and Yankees. *dodges tomatoes* 


GO HALOS!!!!


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## coldsorehighlighter

Story on ESPN says baseball will add 1 more wild card in each league starting this year...as a Red Sox fan living in Canada, I'm happy about this because I have a soft spot for the Jays, since I'm forced to watch their games often.


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## Ironpain

Another Wild card is what Jay's fans have been hoping for, the Jays need that, we need a solid pitching rotation, Jose Bautista stays hot out there, outside of Toronto I look forward to seeing how Boston redeems themselves, how their new manager works out for them and I'd like to see Dustin Pedoria have a good year.


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## Duane Louis

Im from the UK, Ive followed the MLB For a few years now, Im not sure who I root for yet, I have enjoyed watching the Blue Jays, dodgers and mostly the tigers. Any suggestions for me there?


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## anonymid

Duane Louis said:


> Im from the UK, Ive followed the MLB For a few years now, Im not sure who I root for yet, I have enjoyed watching the Blue Jays, dodgers and mostly the tigers. Any suggestions for me there?


Root for the Tampa Bay Rays! They might be the best-run franchise in the sport right now. They've gone from being a terrible team five years ago to being legitimate rivals of the Yankees and Red Sox in the AL East despite not having nearly the same level of resources. They've got a lot of great young players, so they should be fun to watch for years to come. Unfortunately they have very lackluster fan support despite their recent success, so they could use all the fans they could get.


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## 50piecesteve

Silent Image said:


> I'm an O's fan and I don't want your pity


you have my pity :haha
i only really watch playoff baseball and i expect nothing less than my Texas Rangers to win the World series


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## Duane Louis

anonymid said:


> Root for the Tampa Bay Rays! They might be the best-run franchise in the sport right now. They've gone from being a terrible team five years ago to being legitimate rivals of the Yankees and Red Sox in the AL East despite not having nearly the same level of resources. They've got a lot of great young players, so they should be fun to watch for years to come. Unfortunately they have very lackluster fan support despite their recent success, so they could use all the fans they could get.


Thanks for the suggestion! Ill keep that In mind this season


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## Ironpain

Anonymid I for sure thought you'd lure him to Red Sox nation with Cookies,


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## NWZ

Duane Louis said:


> Im from the UK, Ive followed the MLB For a few years now, Im not sure who I root for yet, I have enjoyed watching the Blue Jays, dodgers and mostly the tigers. Any suggestions for me there?


Depends on what you are looking for in a team.

If you like underdogs some suggestions are: 
Washington and Seattle: The only two teams to never to play in a world series.

Baltimore, Toronto, Tampa: Teams going up against the ultra rich Redsox and Yankees.

cubs: last won a world series in 1908

Pittsburgh, Kansas City: Teams that have just sucked for a long time.

If you like offense: most AL teams other than Seattle

If you like pitching: Philadelphia, San Francisco, Atlanta

I'm a fan of Seattle and pitty is about the only reason I could recommend them. Of the three teams you listed I would probably go with Detroit, since the have one of the top pitchers in the game with Justin Verlander and one of the top hitters in Miguel Cabbrara. Detroit has also got a number of other interesting players such as Fielder, Scherzer, and Fister.


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## Duane Louis

NWZ said:


> Depends on what you are looking for in a team.
> 
> If you like underdogs some suggestions are:
> Washington and Seattle: The only two teams to never to play in a world series.
> 
> Baltimore, Toronto, Tampa: Teams going up against the ultra rich Redsox and Yankees.
> 
> cubs: last won a world series in 1908
> 
> Pittsburgh, Kansas City: Teams that have just sucked for a long time.
> 
> If you like offense: most AL teams other than Seattle
> 
> If you like pitching: Philadelphia, San Francisco, Atlanta
> 
> I'm a fan of Seattle and pitty is about the only reason I could recommend them. Of the three teams you listed I would probably go with Detroit, since the have one of the top pitchers in the game with Justin Verlander and one of the top hitters in Miguel Cabbrara. Detroit has also got a number of other interesting players such as Fielder, Scherzer, and Fister.


Thank you! Ill keep that In mind again.


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## srschirm

Duane Louis said:


> Im from the UK, Ive followed the MLB For a few years now, Im not sure who I root for yet, I have enjoyed watching the Blue Jays, dodgers and mostly the tigers. Any suggestions for me there?


I'm partial to the Tigers, Braves, Cubs, and Brewers. But the previous poster laid it out pretty good. Teams like the Yankees and Red Sox, you either love or hate. Add Philadelphia to that list for me.


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## PaysageDHiver

mbg1411 said:


> Huge Braves fan. I dont think they will be any worse than last season.
> 
> My biggest fear is that Jason Heyward will end up being a dud. So much hype in that guy. He did awesome his rookie season. Hanson Im still waiting for him to break out the bad assery. He was someone I thought was going to be a 20win/270K+ guy (last seaon in triple A he had what 190Ks in 130-140 innings). Hudson, Jones are both getting old. Uggla I think will start out better.
> 
> If they can stay heathly I think they'll make the playoffs. If not itll be another 2011.


Braves fan here. Jayward should have a good year; last year went wrong in so many ways for him, that I'm hesitant to draw any grand conclusions from it. He's too talented and grounded not to improve significantly.

I'm interested to see Hanson's new motion. He says it's easier on his arm.


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## srschirm

Y'all from Georgia? 

I think Heyward will be fine, people need to lay off him and let him do his thing.


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## ladyscuttle

*philadelphia phillies <3*


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## PaysageDHiver

srschirm said:


> Y'all from Georgia?
> 
> I think Heyward will be fine, people need to lay off him and let him do his thing.


Been in the midwest for awhile, but have southeast connections (how I became a Braves fan).

Heyward looked pretty good in today's game. And he absolutely powdered a Strasburg fastball a few days ago.


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## Cubby

Duane Louis said:


> Im from the UK, Ive followed the MLB For a few years now, Im not sure who I root for yet, I have enjoyed watching the Blue Jays, dodgers and mostly the tigers. Any suggestions for me there?


The Cubbies! I'm not one that would try to tout we have the best fans in the majors, since I hate those claims. You'll find loyal fans for _any_ team, even the Yankees! But you'll have difficulty finding a poser Cubs fan, since posers can't wait over a hundred years for a title.


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## Ironpain

Chipper Jones will retire at the end of the season, only question, first ballot or not? In my opinion your either a HOFer or you're not. Why should somebody vote no one year and then yes the next year? I say have one years where it's decided. You get in or you don't. None of this 15 years baloney. I don't know what changes from the first year to the 15th. 

Either you belong in or you don't.Bagwell isn't in yet. Close to identical offensive players, and Bagwell was probably the better fielder, Jones was considerably better in the postseason and won a championship, but those things don't seem to have the same meaning to baseball voters as in other sports.

I say he ends it with 469 HR. It's nice to see him not sticking around to pad his numbers, he could DH somewhere and probably reach 500. I wonder how bad he'd have to be this year to see his AVG and OBP dip below those magical .300 and .400 marks...... Braves could be without both McCann and Hudson by 2014 as well. In fact, it's probably likely...


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## anonymid

^ Yeah, I've never cared for the whole "first-ballot" nonsense either. Anyway, Jones should be an easy Hall of Famer. He's probably one of the top five third basemen of all time (top six at worst), and was definitely the best third-basemen of his generation (unless you count A-Rod, but he's only spent half his career there, so I don't, and only a couple of his best years have come at third anyway).

Bagwell should also be in easily, as he's one of the best first basemen of all time (even after you adjust the numbers because of the era he played in). Steroid suspicion is the only thing keeping him out, which I think is pretty silly, but whatever.


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## Ironpain

Chipper would have to go 30 hits for 236 ABs (for a lifetime .299445 avg) for his batting average to slip under .300. That won't happen. One of the greatest switch-hitters of all time, also one of the greatest 3rd baseman of all time... but like I said I'm not into the whole ballot thing, I respect the fact that Jones has had a long and distinguished career all with the same team--a rarity in this day and age. Well Chipper has always been clean compared to Bagwell who's always had suspicion on him about Steroids


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## TheCynicalEye

ladyscuttle said:


> *philadelphia phillies <3*


I agree completely


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## PaysageDHiver

I'm glad that Chipper has made the decision. He might be my favorite player of all-time, but it's time for him to go.

In addition to his accolades on the field, he's a great teammate. He also gives quality interviews - he doesn't say the boring, vanilla stuff that most players say. He speaks his mind. Always respected him for that.


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## anonymid

I'd been assuming that the Mariner's-A's game in Japan would be on ESPN or something. Apparently it's not. Boo.


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## NWZ

anonymid said:


> I'd been assuming that the Mariner's-A's game in Japan would be on ESPN or something. Apparently it's not. Boo.


I stayed up and watched both games. You didn't miss anything.


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## Ironpain

Is it just me or does George Gil (what ever his name is) from the Yankees, look like a little boy when he has on his helmet? I keep wanting to say what is that little boy doing on the field. Jay's broke a spring training record set by their 1989 predecessors for most wins, but winning in spring training doesn't translate to winning in the regular season.


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## Ironpain

The Tigers are looking at another sweep of the A.L. Central, they might get a challenge from the Indian's at least but they have the central. In the West I see a battle between The Angels and Texas, no surprise there. Hate to say it but unless Ichiro picks it up this year, they are going to be where they were last year.


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## WhoDey85

Well the Reds just locked up Votto for the rest of his career! :clap

10 year deal, wow you don't see that everyday.


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## coldsorehighlighter

WhoDey85 said:


> Well the Reds just locked up Votto for the rest of his career! :clap
> 
> 10 year deal, wow you don't see that everyday.


10 years wasn't the shocker for me, $225 million was though. It's probably his market value for the next few years, but the guy is 28. Halfway through this contract, he'll be massively overpaid...but it's not my money, and he's a Canadian, so good on him. 

The Blue Jays paying Jose Bautista $14 million/year for the next 4 years looks like the biggest bargain in the league.


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## anonymid

So, Matt Cain is now the highest paid right-handed pitcher in baseball history. (Well, on a per year basis for a multi-year contract, anyway.)

Nothing against Matt Cain; he's a good pitcher. But, that's just really weird, isn't it? Matt Cain.


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## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> So, Matt Cain is now the highest paid right-handed pitcher in baseball history.
> 
> Nothing against Matt Cain; he's a good pitcher. But, that's just really weird.


Weird, and stupid...how can they keep Lincecum now? He already turned down 5 years/$100 million, and they signed Zito to that ridiculous 7 year/$126 million deal a while back. They must be planning on losing Lincecum, or maybe the Giants just have more money than I thought...


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## anonymid

I hate how staggered and disjointed the start of the season has become. The A's and Mariners opened a week ahead of everyone else halfway around the world in games that weren't even nationally televised. There's a stand-alone game tonight. Some teams open tomorrow. Others don't open until Friday. So, there are really four different "opening days," and there's not a full slate of games until Saturday. And some of the series that open Thursday (Red Sox-Tigers, for example) have a day off on Friday before resuming Saturday, which is just weird. And the game tonight between the Cardinals and Marlins is only a one-game "series"--the Marlins start a series in Cincinnati tomorrow, and the Cardinals start one in Milwaukee on Friday.

I'm sure MLB has some half-baked reasons for this schedule, but it's just weird.


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## coldsorehighlighter

^ I agree, it's disappointing to be honest. I'm still looking forward to the season, but I'm not as excited this year for the start, as I have been in the past. I can understand having 1 game tonight, but then every other team should be playing Thursday. 
OPENING DAY is a celebration of baseball, and this year, it's not giving me that feeling.


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## srschirm

As much as I don't like Cincinnati, I agree, the disjointed start sucks. I'm a purist at heart, and Cincinnati deserves the opening game.


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## anonymid

Anyone else play Beat the Streak on mlb.com? I've already got my picks for tonight, tomorrow and Friday set.


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## WhoDey85

Yeah, the Reds always use to play the first mlb game of the season at home.


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## coldsorehighlighter

...and of course, Kyle Lohse has a no-hitter through 5 innings...

Edit: ...through 6 innings...


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## anonymid

anonymid said:


> Anyone else play Beat the Streak on mlb.com? I've already got my picks for tonight, tomorrow and Friday set.


Picked Reyes, and he broke up the no-hitter.


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## Ironpain

Love this new Jays commercial, Jays are intense and ready for opening day, you can see they look pumped, have to say this is the most excited I've been to see the Jays, last year really prepared me for how much better this year is going to be. 
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20373755&topic_id=25978330&c_id=tor

The second one just really turns me on lol, wow it is a thing of beauty, love it, now I'll really be turned on, if the Jays can get 98 wins and a Wild Card lol that will be great and if you really want me to let go, I really hope we get into the playoff's.

I hate that we are in the same division as Boston, I have a soft spot for them in particular Dustin Pedoria, I'm just happy we don't have to face them in any world series games, not that we've made any in the last 20 years, if it wasn't for the 1994 lockout I think we might have had another chance.

For a while I stopped watching baseball in the mid 90's, I only came back to it when we got Roy Halladay.

Today's line up

Escobar SS, Johnson 2B, Bautista RF, Lind 1B, Encarnacion DH, Lawrie 3B, Thames LF, Arencibia C, Rasmus CF, Romero P


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## Ironpain

Has anyone seen the new covers for MLB 12 the show? Adrian Gonzalez is on the American version and Jose Bautista of course is on the Canadian one. Looks good, times like these I wish I had a system so I could play.


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## Ironpain

Lmao at the Orioles License plate give away for the #1 Orioles fan

Maryland Baltimore 0001 Orioles 

And not a tear was shed when Peter Angelos left Baltimore, he makes Bob Irsay look good. If any team should have been drinking beer and chicken wings last year it should have been The O's. I'd be concerned that the police might pull the #1 fan over and arrest him for abusing the public with that awful license plate. 

Now a Jose Bautista Bobble head beats a O's License plate any day of the week.


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## anonymid

Lester vs. Verlander in half an hour to open the season. Can't wait! 

Mets-Braves is on at the same time, so I might flip over during the commercials to check out Johan Santana's first start back after missing all of last season. Loved him during his peak with the Twins (my second favorite team), and he still might be my favorite pitcher. I really hope he's able to put his career back together after all the injuries.


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## Ironpain

Ricky Romero got off to a rough start, his confidence was down and he seemed unfocused, Masterson seemed composed, his pitches were more solid than Romero's, it wasn't the start that he wanted but I Bautista got himself homer which was a good confidence booster for him, J.P Arencibia made a great play, Encarnacion had that great play to tie it up, we just needed that momentum, we needed that scare to push us. 

Come on Jays, Lets Go Bluebirds, Lets Go
Bot 10th Indians home opener

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 R	H	E
Blue Jays 
(0-0) 0 0 0	1 0 0 0 0	3 0 4	6	1
Indians 
(0-0) 0	4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4	6	0


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## Ironpain

Jays and Indians tied 4-4 through 16 innings, that's the longest for opening day, Jays and Indians not giving up any runs, it's a really intense game. The Indians don't have anyone on base, we came close to brawl, it got ugly out there for a minute. Keep it up Jays, lets wear the Indian's out, get us runners on base, score us some runs. Ricky Romero started out slow but he got batters through 5 innings.


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## Ironpain

Whew that was a really intense game, it was a battle of the ball pen, thank goodness we weren't facing Tampa Bay but the Indian's matched us pitcher for Pitcher, got off to a slow start but Ricky Romero found his momentum, held on through five innings, J.P Arencibia had that beautiful 3 run smack. 

Jays aren't without their struggles but they never gave up, that's how you battle back, kept that ball pen alive, great save by Santos to secure our 7-4 Victory, Jays fever is catching right now and I'm loving it. the Jays have fielded (minus pitching) in 2 decades.


----------



## Silent Image

I am glad I got to go to Opening Day at Camden Yards

O's win!


----------



## Buerhle

I wonder if red sox pitchers kept their habits of last year.

Tigers 8 runs today so far.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

The Tigers are a good team, there's no shame in losing to them.
The Tigers are a good team, there's no shame in losing to them.
The Tigers are a good team, there's no shame in losing to them.

Maybe if I say it enough...:|


----------



## anonymid

Just two games into the season.
Just two games into the season.
Just two games into the season.



(But yeah, it was an ugly beatdown today. And the loss in the 9th the other day, right after coming back against Valverde, was disappointing. :|)


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

^Hey, leave me alone. :b I miss the days of being an irrationally negative Sox fan...the last 8 years or so have felt weird.


----------



## anonymid

On the bright side, the Yankees are on their way to 0-2. Yesterday's loss was a _lot_ of fun to watch. Girardi IBBing his team into a first-inning grand slam, and then the Rays walking off against Rivera in the ninth. :yes


----------



## WhoDey85

Going to Great American tomorrow. Gonna be in the bleacher seats in left field!


----------



## NWZ

Mariners 3-1. First place in the AL West!!!


----------



## Buerhle

NWZ said:


> Mariners 3-1. First place in the AL West!!!


Enjoy for the second that it lasts.

Totally unrelated, hammel is throwing a no hitter in 6th inning right now.


----------



## Alex1

yanks 0-3 start..


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> The Tigers are a good team, there's no shame in losing to them.
> The Tigers are a good team, there's no shame in losing to them.
> The Tigers are a good team, there's no shame in losing to them.
> 
> Maybe if I say it enough...:|


How ya doin' this afternoon? :blank

There's going to be a lot of pressure on the Sox to put Bard back in the bullpen. Aceves blows a three-run lead in the ninth, then Melancon blows a two-run lead in the eleventh. Geez.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Alex1 said:


> yanks 0-3 start..


:clap:clap:clap



anonymid said:


> How ya doin' this afternoon? :blank
> 
> There's going to be a lot of pressure on the Sox to put Bard back in the bullpen. Aceves blows a three-run lead in the ninth, then Melancon blows a two-run lead in the eleventh. Geez.


The pitching has been horrific, although it might be unfair to judge it so early, since the Tigers have a really good offense. We'll know more after this week...gotta beat the Jays because the Rays look tough again.

...hey, it's still hockey season.


----------



## Ironpain

This should be a challenging home opener for us, Boston is an exciting team to watch when we are not playing them but when they face us they tend to be a big challenge, I hope that Bautista can start cracking out some homers, Jays need to keep runners off base and just work the ball pen, I'm really excited by the ball pen and with Arencibia's leadership as a catcher. Communication and having the right batting line up is but two of the major keys needed for a win. 

Keep up the great work Blue Jays, Bluebird time , Go Jays Go


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

What a terrible game for the Blue Jays to choose to honour those two victims...not the home opener, that's supposed to be 100% fun. Sorry, but 10 family members on the field crying their eyes out doesn't mesh with what's supposed to be a celebration.

It was so awkward I had to turn the channel. :/


----------



## Ironpain

I'm happy someone brought that up, I felt exactly the same way, It didn't fit at all with what was suppose to be a fun home opener , they could have saved that for the next game, was really out of place. I can't say I blame you, it was awkward.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Why do the schedule makers continue to be dumb? I can see them sitting in a room:

Genius #1: I think Detroit should start the season, opening at home.

Genius #2: Great idea! It's early April in Detroit, so it probably won't rain/snow.

Genius #3: Agreed, and let's have them host Tampa, in one of those early April series.

Genius #1: Yes, that's a wonderful plan! Tampa plays in a dome, and who wants to play inside a dome when it's likely to be so nice in Detroit?

:blank


----------



## Christa25

Pretty sure every second person I saw at the Subway station and downtown yesterday was wearing something Jays.


----------



## WhoDey85

I'm pumped, Brandon Phillips is a Red for the next six years!. Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Chapman long term. That is solid!:clap


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I'm so excited to have baseball back in my life. I love the 27 games my team plays every month. I love the afternoon games, it's how the game should be played, but logically can't be, at least not all the time. I love the night games, even the games that start at 10pm Eastern, because despite my loyalties to the Red Sox, I still like to watch the Dodgers, Giants, A's.

Simply a beautiful game.


----------



## WhoDey85

Apparently playing for the O's can cause depression.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

WhoDey85 said:


> Apparently playing for the O's can cause depression.


Haha, that's funny...watching them can also cause depression, I'm sure.


----------



## WhoDey85

Just got my box of .....VottO's


----------



## Buerhle

the cheat said:


> I'm so excited to have baseball back in my life. I love the 27 games my team plays every month. I love the afternoon games, it's how the game should be played, but logically can't be, at least not all the time. I love the night games, even the games that start at 10pm Eastern, because despite my loyalties to the Red Sox, I still like to watch the Dodgers, Giants, A's.
> 
> Simply a beautiful game.


Love baseball.


----------



## anonymid

Kelly Shoppach, wreaking havoc on the basepaths!


----------



## Buerhle

anonymid said:


> Kelly Shoppach, wreaking havoc on the basepaths!


Lol dude


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I just witnessed the worst umpiring job I've ever seen, in terms of calling balls/strikes in an individual at-bat...just pathetic.


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> I just witnessed the worst umpiring job I've ever seen, in terms of calling balls/strikes in an individual at-bat...just pathetic.


Yeah, that was terrible. Same ump (Larry Vanover) who helped Strasburg out with a ridiculous strike zone against the Mets last week.


----------



## Ironpain

I'm a Jays and Twins fan (with a secret soft spot for The Red Sox) the secret part of me is really loving the 5-3 lead The Twins have on the Yanks but a part of me is also scared that The Twins will blow the lead, it's not that big of a lead anyways at it's the 7th inning. 

There's the one part of me saying don't worry they'll pull off a win some way some how and another part saying are you kidding it's the twins were talking about, maybe it's because it's in HD but when Casilla walked up to bat when they showed it from behind, I was like am I watching Alice in Wonderland lol because he looked so small. 

Edited: The Twins now lead 7-3 at the top of the 8th, a very positive sign but still not enough to shake my doubts until they get a win that is, keep it up Twins, I thought it was Mauer on 3rd after the 6th run until the 7th run came in and I saw it was Valancia. I'm more afraid that this win won't amount to much in later games, I can only hope that The Twins will play with this much passion and heart throughout the season but I may be asking for a lot lol. 

Boogie- Twins maintain the lead to defeat the Yanks 7-3, What was even more impressive is Joe Mauer's form, he looked healthy out there which is a scary thing, I'd like to remain positive that Joe Mauer, will be a healthy scratch all season long but this is Joe Mauer I don't know how long he can go without some knee injury, but great to see him in form and where did the defense come from? Casilla's catch on second, quite the surprise there.


----------



## Ironpain

LOL at the music in the backround- When Joe Mauer brushes his teeth it's to clean the tooth brush.


----------



## PineconeMachine

anonymid said:


> Kelly Shoppach, wreaking havoc on the basepaths!


:haha


----------



## anonymid

So let me get this straight, did Charlie Manuel actually leave Cliff Lee in to bat leading off the 9th inning of a tie game? Seriously?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool that a pitcher went ten innings; you _never_ see that happen anymore. But, good lord, how on earth can you not pinch hit there if you're trying to win the game? That's madness.


----------



## Buerhle

anonymid said:


> So let me get this straight, did Charlie Manuel actually leave Cliff Lee in to bat leading off the 9th inning of a tie game? Seriously?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool that a pitcher went ten innings; you _never_ see that happen anymore. But, good lord, how on earth can you not pinch hit there if you're trying to win the game? That's madness.


I have seen that a few times, and I'm always surprised.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Was nice to see Tito, Pedro, Nomar, and my first favourite player, Mo Vaughn, all back in Fenway. I suppose Roger Clemens' invitation got lost in the mail...


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> Was nice to see Tito, *Pedro*, Nomar, and my first favourite player, Mo Vaughn, all back in Fenway. I suppose Roger Clemens' invitation got lost in the mail...


The current Sox pitching staff is sure making me miss that guy. Five home runs allowed by Buchholz today. :sigh

Anyway, yeah, it was fun to watch all the old players come out . . . and if my eyes didn't deceive me, I could swear I saw Jose Canseco. I'd completely forgotten that he played for the Sox once. :lol


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> The current Sox pitching staff is sure making me miss that guy. Five home runs allowed by Buchholz today. :sigh
> 
> Anyway, yeah, it was fun to watch all the old players come out . . . and if my eyes didn't deceive me, I could swear I saw Jose Canseco. I'd completely forgotten that he played for the Sox once. :lol


So true. At least if Pedro gave up that many home runs to the Yankees, he'd hit them a few times.
Do you read Bill Simmons? This is the last season that we officially can't complain about the Red Sox...5 years since the last title.

...they invited Conseco? Bahahaha...he probably wasn't invited, just bought a ticket and got out onto the field somehow. :blank


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Phil Humber is taking a perfect game into the 9th, as I post this.

I feel like calling his family and saying that if they want him to get this perfect game, they need to give me money and I'll stop watching the game, because I am made of bad luck.


----------



## Silent Image

It doesn't look like he swung too far, but it's in the books as a perfecto.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

The umpires give(today) and they take(the Detroit pitcher).


----------



## anonymid




----------



## NWZ

the cheat said:


> Phil Humber is taking a perfect game into the 9th, as I post this.
> 
> I feel like calling his family and saying that if they want him to get this perfect game, they need to give me money and I'll stop watching the game, because I am made of bad luck.


Mariners doesn't cout.


----------



## Buerhle

Mariners don't count, lol.

Anybody see Pablo Sandoval homer a couple days ago?


----------



## Ironpain

Jays seriously if you are going to get anywhere this season, you're gonna have to learn to beat the Orioles, I can't believe what I'm saying, I have to warn the Jays of the Orioles of all teams, of all the teams The Orioles have Jason Hammel the best starting pitcher right now, how is that possible? it's like the baseball twilight zone.

Jays lose 3-0 to Baltimore, you have to give credited to the Orioles Ball Pen, Jason Hammel, Kyle Drabek didn't have the mechanics to stay with Hammel, Hammel just beat us on the inside, we also had some errors in the infield, little slips. The Jays were not were not were they should have been, our batting saw us drop, no runs and our base percentage wasn't good either. 

What is going on though with the Jays. Hopefully this is a short slump and they get out of it quickly.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

The Red Sox are coming! The Red Sox are coming!


----------



## Ironpain

20 Game Hit streak for Pablo Sandoval.


----------



## Buerhle

Braun, first player to hit 3 homers in a game at Petco.

Padres should trade for him. Ya that will happen. :no


----------



## PaysageDHiver

I'm watching what is surely the wildest game so far this year. Braves v. Phillies, Halladay on the mound; Braves score 6 off him in the 5th (McCann grand slam) to tie it; Heyward single off Halladay next inning gives Braves 8-6 lead; Phillies score 6 over next several innings to go up 12-8; Braves score 5 in bottom of 8th to go up 13-12; Phillies score one in top of 9th off all-star closer Kimbrel to tie it at 13. We're now in the 11th, tied at 13.

An emotional roller coaster for this Braves fan.

UPDATE: CHIPPER WALK OF HOMER!! Braaaaaves winn!!!!!


----------



## MindOverMood




----------



## Silent Image

MindOverMood said:


>


Hahaha


----------



## NWZ

I don't have anything against Pujols, but it is awsome seeing him fall apart with the Angels.


----------



## anonymid

Glad to hear that Mariano Rivera is going to try to make a comeback. Would've been a shame for his career to end on such a fluke injury.


----------



## anonymid

MindOverMood said:


>


:lol

And to think that Dee Gordon has more HRs right now than Pujols does . . . I wouldn't have been shocked if Gordon went his whole career without hitting one.


----------



## Ironpain

Pujols is getting evicted from the no homers club, he has his first home run as an Angel.


----------



## Silent Image

How about that Orioles/Red Sox game?

17 innings

O's win 9-6 

The DH, Chris Davis came in to pitch two scoreless innings. He also had two strikeouts, including one against Adrian Gonzalez.


----------



## anonymid

Silent Image said:


> How about that Orioles/Red Sox game?
> 
> 17 innings
> 
> O's win 9-6
> 
> The DH, Chris Davis came in to pitch two scoreless innings. He also had two strikeouts, including one against Adrian Gonzalez.


I watched the whole game--over six hours, the longest home game in Sox history, apparently.

Still can't believe the Gonzo strikeout. And with two men on base, too. Followed promptly by McDonald grounding into a game-ending DP.

I find games like this fun, but the funk that the Sox have been in made this one a little harder to enjoy. Two extra-inning losses to the Orioles this weekend really hurt.


----------



## WhoDey85

What are the odds Weaver no hits the Twins again? Haha wouldn't that be something.


----------



## PaysageDHiver

So what's the deal with Bautista? Is he going to get it going or what?


----------



## PaysageDHiver

Hamilton 5-5 with 4 homers and a double tonight against Baltimore. 18 total bases sets an AL record.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

It's 2012, so as a Red Sox fan, why do I feel like I'm cheering for the 2001-2005 NY Mets? :rain


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> It's 2012, so as a Red Sox fan, why do I feel like I'm cheering for the 2001-2005 NY Mets? :rain


Incidentally, I've been having a lot more fun watching the 2012 Mets than the 2012 Red Sox. Very glad that I have an option every day to watch a team other than the Sox when I need a break from them (and of course my third option is to put on YES and root for whoever's playing the Yankees).


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> Incidentally, I've been having a lot more fun watching the 2012 Mets than the 2012 Red Sox. Very glad that I have an option every day to watch a team other than the Sox when I need a break from them (and of course my third option is to put on YES and root for whoever's playing the Yankees).


Haha oh man, that's sad...do you think we'll make a run? Baseball is a long season and it's easy to forget that. All you need is one great run over 30 or 40 games...and we'll be getting some players back eventually.

Also...I'm loving Will Middlebrooks. It's been a while since we brought up an impact player.


----------



## Ironpain

I'm watching the Blue Jays and Jose Bautista does terrible, I stop watching for a while and suddenly he's hitting home runs that's hilarious, I feel like a jinx, I know I have no control over the game but I feel like I'm a jinx, anytime I'm not watching a game. 

There's some amazing goal or highlight the minute I watch and everyone starts to play medicore and crappy, very weird, I thought Anonymid might find this interesting, one of the players for the Mets was wearing a Hartford Whaler Jersey yesterday.


----------



## anonymid

^ Yup, Jason Bay:










Bay was awesome in his year-and-a-half with the Red Sox (and with the Pirates before that). It's sad how his career has absolutely fallen apart with the Mets.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> ^ Yup, Jason Bay:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bay was awesome in his year-and-a-half with the Red Sox (and with the Pirates before that). It's sad how his career has absolutely fallen apart with the Mets.


I totally supported moving Manny to bring Bay in...I was a a frequent poster back in the day on sportingnews.com, and I did a lot of research on Bay when that trade happened, I was very happy to have him. He doesn't strike the fear of God into you like a in-his-prime Manny could but doubles, homer's, good defense and effort? Yep, yep, yep and yep.

That said, I wasn't sad to see him go, but only because of the money he was asking for. Not my money, but it was way too much...

If the Red Sox can even half-decent starting pitching, they win the AL East...yep, I said it.


----------



## LucasVandal

Pujols is starting to get locked in again. Trout and calhoun are great young players we just brought up. I still believe angels will make it to october


----------



## Buerhle

LucasVandal said:


> Pujols is starting to get locked in again. Trout and calhoun are great young players we just brought up. I still believe angels will make it to october


I was just looking at their box score today. They def can be dangerous.
Anyways, I was thinking same thing.


----------



## jgentle

fire fredi g!


----------



## jgentle

David O'Brien [email protected]
#braves have optioned Medlen to AAA Gwinnett to stretch him out and recalled OF constanza


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I'm predicting a Verlander no-hitter tonight against Boston. That may or may not be a reverse-jinx.


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> I'm predicting a Verlander no-hitter tonight against Boston. That may or may not be a reverse-jinx.


Good day to be wrong! :yes


----------



## PaysageDHiver

jgentle said:


> fire fredi g!


Agree.


----------



## anonymid

MLB is apparently considering an NHL-style "central location" replay system for next year and beyond:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/5/29/3051214/replay-review-mlb-central-location-2013


----------



## NWZ

Mariners win 21-8! We now have scored more runs than we have given up.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> MLB is apparently considering an NHL-style "central location" replay system for next year and beyond:
> 
> http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/5/29/3051214/replay-review-mlb-central-location-2013


If they do that, it'd be great. They can have the umpiring crew chief wear an ear-piece that can communicate with this "replay war room", and that way we can save a few minutes without having the ump's all walk off the field, and into some room.

Manager requests a replay, ump calls it in, they review it quickly, replay the result to the ump, he makes the call...done.
Managers should have limited amounts of requests per game, and they don't have to use any of them on home-run replays, they're automatic.

I've always accepted the human error aspect, but it's time to get into this century.


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> I've always accepted the human error aspect, but it's time to get into this century.


Yeah, exactly. I've never understood the "human element" argument against replay. The human element in baseball is the player, not the umpire. If we have tools that will help the umpire do his job better without slowing down the game too much, there's no reason not to use them.

For really obvious miscalls, there's no reason for a manager-requested review, even. An official at the "central location" (or in a video booth in each ballpark) simply needs to buzz down to the ump with the correct call, and it can be overturned in seconds.

For hard-to-tell borderline stuff, yeah, put the onus on the managers, and give them a very limited number of reviews each game.


----------



## Ironpain

Mets' Santana no-hitted the Cardinals the Mets are being no-hitted as well through 3 by Wainwright, Pitch count over 100, 1st Mets No-hit!!!!


----------



## Buerhle

Ironpain said:


> Mets' Santana no-hitted the Cardinals the Mets are being no-hitted as well through 3 by Wainwright, Pitch count over 100, 1st Mets No-hit!!!!


Wow.


----------



## anonymid

Huh, so Dee Gordon is Tom Gordon's son, apparently? I had no clue. This is the sort of thing that makes me feel really old.










And speaking of the elder Gordon, I had no clue that he was still in the majors as recently as 2009. Jeez.


----------



## Buerhle

anonymid said:


> Huh, so Dee Gordon is Tom Gordon's son, apparently? I had no clue. This is the sort of thing that makes me feel really old.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And speaking of the elder Gordon, I had no clue that he was still in the majors as recently as 2009. Jeez.


That card looks beautiful. Lol. Baseball card nerd right here. That was Bo jacksons buddy right?

Ya, I'm old too.


----------



## Buerhle

There should be a baseball card thread.

I give that card a 10.

Does anybody remember the 1st football cards. The players were always a still shot. Just sitting there. Lol. I remember my friends giiving me a hard time for 'wasting' my money on them. Then ended up being worth something.

They also liked pro-set over score, but I liked score and thats what ended up being more valuable, but this is all ancient history.

I could easily get back into cards though.


----------



## anonymid

Whir said:


> There should be a baseball card thread.
> 
> I give that card a 10.
> 
> Does anybody remember the 1st football cards. The players were always a still shot. Just sitting there. Lol. I remember my friends giiving me a hard time for 'wasting' my money on them. Then ended up being worth something.
> 
> They also liked pro-set over score, but I liked score and thats what ended up being more valuable, but this is all ancient history.
> 
> I could easily get back into cards though.


I had a shoebox full of '89 Score football cards when I was a kid, but our cat ended up pooping in it. Just figures, seeing as those were practically the only sports cards from that era that ended up being worth anything. :lol

And yeah, a separate card thread would definitely be in order.


----------



## anonymid

What a fantastic name for a pitcher:








.

Much better than










or








.


----------



## NWZ

Kevin Millwood, Charlie Furbush, Stephen Pryor, Lucus Luetge, Brandon League, and Tom Wilhemsen throw a no-hitter!


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

...Dice-K! Look at the orange flow he's got going on!


----------



## anonymid

This guy has become one of my new favorite players:


----------



## Buerhle

anonymid said:


> This guy has become one of my new favorite players:


Now he is a stud, he kind of sucked for me every time i tried to use him in the past in fantasy. I agree though, I like him too, I'm just mad. :cry


----------



## anonymid

Whir said:


> Now he is a stud, he kind of sucked for me every time i tried to use him in the past in fantasy. I agree though, I like him too, I'm just mad. :cry


I picked him him up at just the right time in both of this year's SAS leagues. Grabbed him for the game against Pittsburgh that started the remarkable win streak he's on, and I've been riding him ever since. :boogie


----------



## Ironpain

TORONTO -- Bryce Harper's comebacks look ready for the big leagues, too. 

The 19-year-old Washington Nationals outfielder quipped, "That's a clown question, bro," to a Toronto TV reporter who asked if he planned to take advantage of Canada's lower drinking age after belting a long home run in a win over the Blue Jays. 

For a brief time, the highest trending topic on Twitter was Harper's response: "That's a clown question, bro." The outfielder's name was also among the site's most popular subjects. 

In Ontario, the drinking age is 19, not 21 as in the United States. Following the game, a reporter asked Harper whether he planned to celebrate his huge homer with a beer, and what his preferred brand would be. 

Harper is a Mormon, a religion that forbids alcohol. A Nationals PR staffer suggested the reporter try a different line of questioning, but Harper was ready. 

"I'm not answering that," Harper said. "That's a clown question, bro." 

Sure enough, by Wednesday morning, online retailers were offering T-shirts emblazoned with Harper's comment, while fans far and wide were posting tweets about the latest baseball catchphrase. 

I've heard and I could look this up to see if it's true but He is also LDS. While in High School he attended early morning seminar every day. Wanting to be drafted into the MLB as soon as possible, he left high school after his sophomore year and went to the College of Southern Nevada and got his G.E.D. Look for this athlete to begin getting more and more headlines and becoming a very famous Mormon.


----------



## Ironpain

Ask Harper a question!


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Can't wait til the Red Sox get Ellsbury and Crawford back...although Podsednik is hitting like it's 2005, and I love the Nava story.


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> Can't wait til the Red Sox get Ellsbury and Crawford back...although Podsednik is hitting like it's 2005, and I love the Nava story.


Adrian Gonzalez slugging .405 and batting sixth is a depressing thing to see. Pedroia hasn't really been himself, either. Thank goodness Papi still has it.


----------



## Buerhle




----------



## Ironpain

Will Johnny Damon get 3000 career hits? 


He's 37, 38 and he's at 2749, including a meager 26 hits this season. Sure, he will likely raise his .206 batting average, but how much? He could easily finish this season at no better than 2800 hits. 

He's likely going to need the better part of two more seasons after this one, with regular playing time. That might be a tall order. Good teams will have better options. And poor teams will be under pressure to develop young talent rather than giving at-bats to a guy in serious decline. 

A number of decent but aging ballplayers have found themselves forced into retirement in recent years for this very reason. I won't be the least bit surprised if the same thing happens to Damon.


----------



## anonymid

Well, it's been looking inevitable for much of the season, but the Youk era in Boston is officially over. Had an RBI triple in his last at-bat, and got a great ovation from the Fenway crowd. Had my gray Youkilis #20 shirt on as I watched.


----------



## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> Will Johnny Damon get 3000 career hits?
> 
> He's 37, 38 and he's at 2749, including a meager 26 hits this season. Sure, he will likely raise his .206 batting average, but how much? He could easily finish this season at no better than 2800 hits.
> 
> He's likely going to need the better part of two more seasons after this one, with regular playing time. That might be a tall order. Good teams will have better options. And poor teams will be under pressure to develop young talent rather than giving at-bats to a guy in serious decline.
> 
> A number of decent but aging ballplayers have found themselves forced into retirement in recent years for this very reason. I won't be the least bit surprised if the same thing happens to Damon.


I guess he's got a chance, though I think these kinds of milestones get a bit overblown, especially when they get treated as Hall of Fame credentials. Damon has been a consistently good, but never great, player, so I don't think getting to 3,000 hits would automatically make him a Hall of Famer somehow. Kind of like if Jamie Moyer were to get to 300 wins--it would be cool and all, but it wouldn't make up for the fact that he was never really _great_.

I remember hearing someone say about Tim Raines (who has a much better Hall of Fame case than Damon) that if you took 800 of his walks and turned them into 400 singles and 400 outs, he'd be a worse player, but a lock Hall of Famer, because then he'd have those magical 3,000 hits. I think that illustrates pretty well how silly the fixation on milestones can be.


----------



## Ironpain

Tell me about how the whole Youkilis episode played out at Fenway? 

Did Youkilis know he had been traded before going to the plate and hitting that triple? I didn't even realize a player could continue playing a game for a team that's just traded him away. Is it not a little weird that he would continue to try to contribute to a team that could potentially contend with his future team in the wild card race? 

Or did he get traded the exact moment after he hit the triple? If so, how did he know he had been traded as he walked off the field? 

I didn't see the game, but the whole thing seems a little strange. I'm curious about what happened. Maybe the culture dictates that even though he's been traded, it's acceptable for him to go in and try to make one last contribution to the family he's been a part of for so long before he exits?


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## Ironpain

K I found the last game here. 




The two players the Red Sox got from Chicago for Youklis have a 6.00 ERA and two RBIs with a .175 batting average, respectively, which seems to point to them punting the season. But when you look at their run differential, only Texas and New York have a better differential than Boston does. So where is this going?


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## anonymid

The Red Sox are most definitely not punting the season; there just wasn't room for Youkilis anymore. The Sox' third baseman of the future (Will Middlebrooks) is already up and producing, and there's just no way to give both him and Youk regular playing time, with first base and DH already being occupied full-time by Adrian Gonzalez and David Ortiz (a few times the Sox have put Gonzalez in right field to get them all in the lineup, but that's clearly not a long term solution, especially since Ellsbury and Carl Crawford are going to be back in the outfield at some point).

Youk is aging, frequently hurt, and in rapid decline, so he was clearly going to be the odd man out. Realistically, the Red Sox weren't going to get a big return for him. Lillibridge is a utility player with a terrible bat; Stewart was a good prospect at one point who probably still has some upside, even though he hasn't been very good in the majors so far. I'm not sure what other offers the Red Sox got for Youk, but they'd been shopping him pretty aggressively for the last few weeks, so I assume that what they got from the White Sox was about as good as they were going to do.

As for his last at-bat, if a trade had already gone through, then no, Youk would not have been in the lineup. But it had been inevitable that he was going to be traded very very soon, so it was a way to ensure that he would get to have a formal goodbye with the home fans. Turns out that the deal was done pretty soon after.


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> The Red Sox are most definitely not punting the season; there just wasn't room for Youkilis anymore. The Sox' third baseman of the future (Will Middlebrooks) is already up and producing, and there's just no way to give both him and Youk regular playing time, with first base and DH already being occupied full-time by Adrian Gonzalez and David Ortiz (a few times the Sox have put Gonzalez in right field to get them all in the lineup, but that's clearly not a long term solution, especially since Ellsbury and Carl Crawford are going to be back in the outfield at some point).
> 
> Youk is aging, frequently hurt, and in rapid decline, so he was clearly going to be the odd man out. Realistically, the Red Sox weren't going to get a big return for him. Lillibridge is a utility player with a terrible bat; Stewart was a good prospect at one point who probably still has some upside, even though he hasn't been very good in the majors so far. I'm not sure what other offers the Red Sox got for Youk, but they'd been shopping him pretty aggressively for the last few weeks, so I assume that what they got from the White Sox was about as good as they were going to do.
> 
> As for his last at-bat, if a trade had already gone through, then no, Youk would not have been in the lineup. But it had been inevitable that he was going to be traded very very soon, so it was a way to ensure that he would get to have a formal goodbye with the home fans. Turns out that the deal was done pretty soon after.


Thanks, yeah I was just curious about how it all went down, do you think anyone was really surprised or was the whole aging factor and frequent injuries something that made this something that was envitable at least to the fans? So as a Youk fan what do you do now? how is knowing that your boy plays for the White Sox? it's got to sting like hell, I can only imagine what emotions you were feeling that day.


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## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> Thanks, yeah I was just curious about how it all went down, do you think anyone was really surprised or was the whole aging factor and frequent injuries something that made this something that was envitable at least to the fans?


The writing was on the wall when the Sox acquired Adrian Gonzalez. And when Middlebrooks came up this year and played well while Youk was on the DL, it became inevitable.



Ironpain said:


> So as a Youk fan what do you do now? how is knowing that your boy plays for the White Sox? it's got to sting like hell, I can only imagine what emotions you were feeling that day.


I'll still root for him, definitely. It's sad, but it was the right move and it was inevitable, so that takes some of the sting out of it. It was sad when Nomar was traded in '04, but that season obviously had a very happy ending, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this season will, too.


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## PaysageDHiver

Ironpain said:


> Will Johnny Damon get 3000 career hits?
> 
> He's 37, 38 and he's at 2749, including a meager 26 hits this season. Sure, he will likely raise his .206 batting average, but how much? He could easily finish this season at no better than 2800 hits.
> 
> He's likely going to need the better part of two more seasons after this one, with regular playing time. That might be a tall order. Good teams will have better options. And poor teams will be under pressure to develop young talent rather than giving at-bats to a guy in serious decline.
> 
> A number of decent but aging ballplayers have found themselves forced into retirement in recent years for this very reason. I won't be the least bit surprised if the same thing happens to Damon.


Screw Damon. He's the type of player who would play until he's 50 if teams would let him, just to get 3,000. And he'd demand to start each year.


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## anonymid

Anyone else see this? :lol


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## PaysageDHiver

haha!


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## Ironpain

Trade talks are heating up as the deadline slowly approaches. What players do you think your team should try to acquire, or should avoid? Obviously realistic options only.

If your team has already traded (cough Anonymid cough) you are exempt (jk) 


BLUE JAYS: The Jays need some starting pitching and fast if they are to continue to fight for a wildcard spot as 3 of their 5 starters are out long term with injuries. Just signed Moyer today which is kind of odd considering his age, probably washed up as they should go after Garza or if the Phillies continue to falter, make a bid for Hamels.

Detroit Tigers: 

Brandon McCarthy- I think he's underrated and hope the Tigers try to get him. He's obviously has DL history and is approaching free agency, so he should be pretty cheap. Although if the A's ask for either of our top 2 prospects(Castellanos and Turner), then ah screw it

Jed Lowrie- There have already been reports about this possible deal, and I'm fine with it. The Tigers second base situation is absolutely dreadful so Lowrie would definitely be an upgrade. Over the past couple seasons DD has made some under the radar trades that have benefited the Tigers. 

Carlos Quentin- Avoid. There is no point in getting this guy unless the Tigers are acquiring him for literally nothing. I don't why there are so many reports about this, to me it seems stupid. The Tigers certainly don't need another outfielder, especially one like Quentin(his hot start doesn't mean sh_t to me, nothing but another .250/20 HR hitter in my eyes). 

Matt Garza- Avoid. Garza would certainly bolster the Tigers rotation, but the Cubs are asking for way too much. Theo Epstein reportedly wants Turner and Castellanos, hell no not worth it. 

Obviously these are only the reported possible trades. The Tigers front office is incredibly unpredictable, GM Dombroski tends to be more conservative while owner Mike Illitch likes to spend big. Even though Illitch just spent $200 mil on Fielder, he's said again that he'll make whatever deals help him win a World Series..


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Anyone else see this? :lol


What made me laugh even more was the expression on his face while looking at the bat, he's like ah man why me this sucks, I look ridiculous.


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## Ironpain

Who should start AL ASG, based on.....True Average??

OK. What the Butt Monkey is true average? This is a new one for me. I see the writer's "definition" of it, but it makes no sense to me and seems rather unquantifiable. Someone please explain to me what this means, and then pardon me while I sit here dumbfounded. This is worse than when sports illustrated had the then 3-13 Royals as the 7th best team in their power rankings because "they had a 11-5 WAR record." Nonsense I tell you. 


All-Star balloting ends at 11:59 PM ET on Thursday and the results will be revealed on Sunday afternoon, so we’ll soon learn which players have been voted into the starting lineups by the fans. At heart, the voting is merely a popularity contest, and hardly a democratic one — an individual can cast 25 ballots for a player online, to say nothing of bulk balloting at the ballpark — and the results don’t always mesh with which player at each position is the most deserving. Then again “most deserving” is itself a subjective call, one that depends not only upon the statistics one relies upon, but also the extent to which one weights this year’s accomplishments against those of prior years. 

What follows here is my own effort to decide which players at each position are the most worthy to start for their respective squads. As you’d expect if you’ve been following along in this space, my taste in statistics runs towards advanced metrics such as Wins Above Replacement Player and True Average (runs per plate appearance adjusted for park and league scoring levels and expressed on a batting average scale, with .300 good, .260 average, .230 replacement level). I’m not simply relying upon 2012 statistics; past accomplishments matter, particularly the recent past, and I’m not going to reward an out-of-context three months if the rest of the available evidence suggests a player is nothing special. That said, I’m not discounting this year’s numbers entirely either, and by bypassing a player having a strong year either at the plate or the ballot box, I’m not declaring his unfitness for a reserve spot. 

What’s apparent from this exercise is that at least in the case of the AL, the voters haven’t done a bad job at all, at least if the current results hold. There are no facepalm-worthy choices, just a few quibbles here and there. On with the show… 


CATCHER: Mike Napoli, Rangers (.242/.347/.460, .282 True Average, 1.2 WARP) 
Vote leader: Napoli 

Baltimore’s Matt Wieters (.255/.338/.444) has taken a big step forward over the past two seasons, and on both the offensive and defensive sides, he’s one of the players to whom the Orioles owe their surprising start. That said, his 2012 performance is basically even with that of Napoli, who’s coming off a monster year (including a .360 True Average) in which he helped the Rangers to a pennant, and he’s been a big part of their success this year as well. No beef with the fans’ choice here. 

FIRST BASE: Paul Konerko, White Sox (.333/.412/.549, .327 TAv, 1.7 WARP) 
Vote leader: Prince Fielder, Tigers (.306/.379/.507, .305 TAv, 1.2 WARP) 

This is a particularly tough call, with two big sluggers, Fielder and Albert Pujols, changing leagues this past winter and putting up less impressive raw numbers than in the past. In the case of the former, much of that has to do with the move from hitter-friendly Miller Park to pitcher-friendly Comerica (though his True Average has dropped from .325 to .305), while in the case of the latter, a horrific start to the season has been offset by a more typical month. Amid that argument, one can’t ignore the quiet work of Konerko, who has spent most of his career in the shadows of more popular first basemen yet put up outstanding numbers himself; his True Average has been above .317 in each of the past three years. The fans’ choice wouldn’t be a bad one, but the nod here goes to Konerko. 

SECOND BASE: Robinson Cano, Yankees (.301/.367/.567, .314 TAv, 2.7 WARP) 
Vote leader: Cano 

Cano is clinging to a narrow lead in the voting over the Rangers’ Ian Kinsler, who has been one of the league’s most underrated players in years past but who’s hitting a less impressive .270/.333/.438 (.261 True Average) this season. A healthy Dustin Pedroia certainly belongs in the discussion for best AL second baseman, but his thumb injury has taken a significant bite out of this year’s stats (.272/.331/.406, for a .264 True Average). We’ll stick with the voters’ choice, who started slowly (267/.323/.389 in April) but has hit an outstanding .318/.388/.651 with 16 homers in May and June. 

THIRD BASE: Adrian Beltre, Rangers (.328/.361/.533, .318 TAv, 1.8 WARP) 
Vote leader: Beltre, Rangers 

Again, the voters are making a good call. The Tigers’ Miguel Cabrera has certainly held his own with the bat (.304/.363/.528, for a .296 True Average, and 1.7 WARP), and has hardly embarrassed himself with the glove in his move across the diamond from first base to third. To the extent that a partial season of fielding metrics means anything — ideally, it takes about three seasons’ worth of data to get a true read — the most pessimistic estimate has him around six runs below average, a drop in the bucket compared to the 20 or even 30 runs some thought he would cost the Tigers. Still, Beltre has outhit him even after you adjust for ballpark, and the consensus of fielding metrics —to say nothing of past history at the hot corner — gives him the edge as well. 

SHORTSTOP: Elvis Andrus, Rangers (.301/.378/.409, .272 TAv, 1.9 WARP) 
Vote leader: Derek Jeter, Yankees 

Though he has a commanding lead in the voting, Jeter (.305/.354/.412) has cooled off drastically following a torrid April; his .263 True Average suggests that in the balance, his offensive production has been rather ordinary, and the defensive metrics cut into his value as well. The Indians’ Asdrubal Cabrera (.291/.376/.474, for a .300 TAv) has become the league’s top masher at the position, but his defense is suspect as well, as even the Indians’ top brass will concede. Andrus has improved his offensive game in each of the past two seasons, becoming an above-average table-setter, and the balance between his offense and above-average defense earns the nod here. 

OUTFIELD: Josh Hamilton, Rangers (.317/.378/.656, .343 TAv, 3.2 WARP), Adam Jones, Orioles (.298/.344/.555, .310 TAv, 3.2 WARP), Mike Trout, Angels (.335/.395/.528, .350 TAv, 3.2 WARP) 
Vote leaders: Hamilton, Curtis Granderson, Yankees, Jose Bautista, Blue Jays 

Even with a rough June related to a strength-sapping intestinal virus, Hamilton leads the AL in slugging percentage, is tied with Bautista for the lead in homers (24), and is tied with Trout and Jones for the lead in WARP. Jones, who took a big step forward as a hitter last year, has been the upstart Orioles’ biggest star, while the rookie Trout has electrified the Angels since his April 28 callup; in addition to the remarkable feat of catching two players with a three-week head start in the WARP rankings, he’s second in True Average, and has to be considered an MVP candidate even at the tender age of 20. 

Alas, these choices mean painful snubs from the starting lineup. Mark Trumbo (.320/.373/.622) has undergone a remarkable evolution in terms of his command of the strike zone. His .363 True Average actually leads the league, and his versatility — 22 starts in rightfield, 20 in left, eight at third base and four at first — has allowed manager Mike Scioscia to juggle his lineup as needed. Bautista (.233/.353/.530) can tell Trumbo all about mid-career evolution, though his .313 True Average is a significant step down from last year’s league-leading .365. As for Granderson, beyond his 21 homers, his line is rather ordinary compared to this crowd (.243/.343/.500, .291 TAv), and as with last year, his defensive numbers are in the red. 

DESIGNATED HITTER: David Ortiz, Red Sox (.307/.393/.618, .337 TAv, 2.3 WARP) 
Vote leader: Ortiz 

Big Papi has remade himself as a hitter over the past couple of years, becoming more contact friendly (38 strikeouts in 308 PA) and less pull-happy in his mid-30s, en route to his best numbers since 2007. He’s fourth in the league in True Average, a couple whiskers ahead of another DH, the Blue Jays’ Edwin Encarnacion (.286/.361/.572, .333 TAv). The latter has the edge on Ortiz in home runs, 21-20, but not the track record. 

On the whole, I’ve taken issue with only four of nine spots, an outcome that surprises even this noted contrarian. We’ll see how the NL measures up tomorrow.


----------



## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> Who should start AL ASG, based on.....True Average??
> 
> OK. What the Butt Monkey is true average? This is a new one for me. I see the writer's "definition" of it, but it makes no sense to me and seems rather unquantifiable. Someone please explain to me what this means, and then pardon me while I sit here dumbfounded. This is worse than when sports illustrated had the then 3-13 Royals as the 7th best team in their power rankings because "they had a 11-5 WAR record." Nonsense I tell you.


It's just a comprehensive batting statistic that accounts for the important things that batting average doesn't account for (walks and extra-base hits, namely), and tries to weight everything as accurately as possible. There are a few different versions of stats like this. OPS, which simply adds on-base percentage and slugging percentage together, is the crudest, but still a big improvement on batting average. It's not perfect, but does the job well enough.

The one I usually look at is wOBA (weighted on-base average), and is found on FanGraphs ; True Average (TAv) is what they use at Baseball Prospectus, and is pretty similar except that it's scaled to look like a batting average (wOBA is scaled to on-base percentage).


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> It's just a comprehensive batting statistic that accounts for the important things that batting average doesn't account for (walks and extra-base hits, namely), and tries to weight everything as accurately as possible. There are a few different versions of stats like this. OPS, which simply adds on-base percentage and slugging percentage together, is the crudest, but still a big improvement on batting average. It's not perfect, but does the job well enough.
> 
> The one I usually look at is wOBA (weighted on-base average), and is found on FanGraphs ; True Average (TAv) is what they use at Baseball Prospectus, and is pretty similar except that it's scaled to look like a batting average (wOBA is scaled to on-base percentage).


I don't know but is that kind of thing looked at in the Fantasy league for example? Okay I got you. Yeah I was kind of stumped on that, the Woba seems like it works much better. Now I was sure that Mike Matheny would manage the All-Star team. How does it work if a retired manager does not want to be bothered? Is it the current manager of that team, or the runner up in the CS?

Selig offered LaRussa the opportunity right after he retired and LaRussa accepted. I would assume that if LaRussa didn't want to manage then it would be Matheny. Carlos Ruiz He is seeing the fewest fastballs of his career this season.

He is seeing a career high number of change-ups and near career highs in cutters, curves, and sliders. I'm surprised by the Marlins though since when did anyone really start caring about the Marlins, it's like all the so called O's fans who suddenly came out of the Wood works who couldn't have cared about them before.

A Look at the Marlins

34-40, 9 games back, Scored 278 runs, allowed 346 runs, Pythagorean W-L: 30-44

June treats the Marlins like September treats the Braves. They're 5-18 so far in June and they've lost 17 of their last 20 games. Attendance has been disappointing, they're 12th in the league. They were dead last a year ago, but I figured they'd be middle of the pack or better in their first season. What the hell? This a team that has Jose Reyes, Giancarlo Stanton, Hanley Ramirez, Heath Bell, Anibal Sanchez, Josh Johnson, and Mark Buehrle.

Time to Pull a CSI Miami on you

I guess you could say the Carlos and Ozzie show is getting...



...low ratings.

Yeeeeeeeeeaaaahhh!

I see the season ending

1. Nationals (They'll be even better once Morse starts producing) 
2. Braves (I'd have finish 1 but the loss of Beachy is going to hurt them) 
3. Phillies (They are destined to get better once Halladay, Utley, and Howard are 100% and Lee finally wins a game) 
4. Mets (actually this one may throw me off the Mets may actually make it past the Phillies at least in all honesty, I don't know maybe my prediction is off here) I see the Mets in 4th but they have the potential to gain a lead over Philly and possible do I dare say it the Braves
5. Marlins (Ozzie will get fired in late August/Early September)


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## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> I don't know but is that kind of thing looked at in the Fantasy league for example?


Nah, most fantasy leagues (including our SAS leagues) just use batting average, along with home runs, RBI, stolen bases, and runs scored. Some fantasy leagues do use different stats, but those are the five batting categories that most leagues traditionally use.

As for the all-star manager, if LaRussa declined I think it would be whoever the manager for the NL runner-up was last year (I forget who the Cards beat in the NLCS). I'm not 100% sure about that though.


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Nah, most fantasy leagues (including our SAS leagues) just use batting average, along with home runs, RBI, stolen bases, and runs scored. Some fantasy leagues do use different stats, but those are the five batting categories that most leagues traditionally use.
> 
> As for the all-star manager, if LaRussa declined I think it would be whoever the manager for the NL runner-up was last year (I forget who the Cards beat in the NLCS). I'm not 100% sure about that though.


I think it was the Phillie's. anyways, I figured it wouldn't be complicated by the whole true average thing, simple batting average, so it would be Charley Manuel then I assume or who's the dude who manages for the Brewers?


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## Ironpain

AL and NL MVP And Cy Young As Of Right Now? You have 30 seconds and only 2 guesses (jk)

American League MVP 
Josh Hamilton - Duh.

National League MVP 
Ryan Braun or Joey Votto - Call me a homer all you want, Braun is having another stellar year in the face of ignorant hate and vitriol everywhere he goes. People who yelled and screamed that he's going to suck without Prince as his "protection" are quiet as a mouse and as far as I'm concerned can go take a flying leap off a cliff

Votto has the high average and the advantage of being on a first place team; Braun's got the power numbers and I think the Brewers will be right there at the end of the year anyways. considering how many blown saves the Reds have had this year, I honestly don't know but it would seem likely

Honorable Mention: Carlos Beltran, Andre Ethier(If Kemp stayed healthy, he'd be in mention but there's no way he'd have kept up the numbers he had in April)

National League Cy Young 
R.A. Dickey - His numbers speak for themselves. HOWEVER, he's a knuckler and I almost guarantee he will decline fast and hard. He will not win the Cy Young. I just have to give him his props; he's been the best in the league thus far.

Honorable Mention: Stephen Strasburg, James McDonald (My preseason pick for Greinke stands; he will end up in the Top 3. Sad to see him go)

American League MVP 
Josh Hamilton - Duh.

American League Cy Young 
Jared Weaver - Take away his 8 run start against the Rangers and his numbers are off the charts.

Honorable Mention: Darvish, Verlander (I decided not to include Verlander this time because it was too obvious, okay truth be told yeah Justin Verlander would be there but I felt like he wouldn't be missed all that much I mean he has similar numbers to weaver except with 33 more innings pitched and 46 more strikeouts) who could be up there with Weaver in terms of the CY but I see Weaver leading the pack,

If STRAS ended up 17-3 and Dicky ended up 19-6 STRAS could still win it. STRAS however lost his 2nd game [9-2] last night which also hurt his all star starter standing...............

"Thats a clown question , BRO"


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## Samtrix

I can see Darvish winning Rookie of the Year.


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## Ironpain

I may have to reconsider what I said about Dickey, K-ballers are the most durable types of pitcher in the game, they practically don't need a pitch count until it gets absurd and can pitch as long as they're having success.

One could argue that he has barely reached his peak...he's been throwing the pitch for a few years now and people are just now starting to figure out how good he is but, he's the clear favorite for the NL. 

Same for the NL MVP...Votto or Braun. The choice will be more clear once the teams pull away from each other, which points to a Votto win considering the Reds are more likely to be around at the end of the year with how well he's hitting and the way Brandon Phillips has woken up lately. 

In the AL, the Cy Young is very competitive. Weaver's injury set him back some, but it should be fine if he remains healthy for the rest of the year. Darvish is use to the work load.


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## Ironpain

WAY to Go Adam Lind, Welcome back and a good solid win for the Jays, an off night for Lawrie, going to be disappointing him individually, a great early defensive play by Rasmus which took away a potential Angels run. 

Which was nice but Rasmus with trouble at bat. Rajai Davis picking up steals, Jose Bautista didn't have his momentum but a good early double play. Jays despite a slight scare by the Angels, their ball Pen which was shaky like ours eventually picked up. 

My Boys in Blue get the Win, Jays take a victory, Adam Lind player of the game. Go Jays GO. Jays Ball Pen though has it's days when it's solid and than they just lose momentum and like a house of cards it crumbles, tonight was no different, same old story in the Ball pen, Adam Lind's time in Triple A Las Vegas really brought back his swing, he got some nice pop on those two homers and had a nice follow through.


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## Ironpain

Poor Danny Farquhar DFA yet again...this time from the Yanks after only 2 days.
So far it's been (hope I get this right...) Toronto->Oakland->Toronto->Oakland->New York->??? and this is all in the last 18 months... That guy just can't catch a break. Not news that Red Sox's fan's care to hear but Derek Jeter once again breaking records, surpasses Cal Ripkin Jr on the all time hits list.


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## PaysageDHiver

In response to Ironpain's trade deadline post:

With Beachy down and with Minor and Delgado pitching serviceably only half the time, the Braves are in the market for a top starting pitcher, and we have the resources to swing a big deal. So I expect us to get Garza, Greinke, or someone like that.


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## PaysageDHiver

Braves sign Ben Sheets. Eh, might as well take a flyer and see what happens. Low risk, possibly high reward.


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## Ironpain

American League roster: 

Starters 
C Mike Napoli, TEX 
1B Prince Fielder, DET 
2B Robinson Cano, NYY 
3B Adrian Beltre, TEX 
SS Derek Jeter, NYY 
OF Josh Hamilton, TEX 
OF Curtis Granderson, NYY 
OF Jose Bautista, TOR 
DH David Ortiz, BOS 
Pitchers 
RHP Ryan Cook, OAK 
LHP Matt Harrison, TEX 
RHP Felix Hernandez, SEA 
RHP Jim Johnson, BAL 
RHP Joe Nathan, TEX 
RHP Chris Perez, CLE 
LHP David Price, TB 
RHP Fernando Rodney, TB 
LHP CC Sabathia, NYY 
LHP Chris Sale, CWS 
RHP Justin Verlander, DET 
RHP Jered Weaver, LAA 
LHP C.J. Wilson, LAA 
Reserves 
C Joe Mauer, MIN 
C Matt Wieters, BAL 
SS Elvis Andrus, TEX 
SS Asdrubal Cabrera, CLE 
3B Miguel Cabrera, DET 
2B Ian Kinsler, TEX 
1B Paul Konerko, CWS 
OF Adam Jones, BAL 
OF Mike Trout, LAA 
OF Mark Trumbo, LAA 
DH Billy Butler, KC 
DH Adam Dunn, CWS 

National League roster: 

Starters	
C Buster Posey, SF 
1B Joey Votto, CIN 
2B Dan Uggla, ATL 
SS Rafael Furcal, STL 
3B Pablo Sandoval, SF 
OF Melky Cabrera, SF 
OF Carlos Beltran, STL 
OF Matt Kemp, LAD 
Pitchers	
RHP Matt Cain, SF 
LHP Aroldis Chapman, CIN 
RHP R.A. Dickey, NYM 
LHP Gio Gonzalez, WAS 
LHP Cole Hamels, PHI 
RHP Joel Hanrahan, PIT 
LHP Clayton Kershaw, LAD 
RHP Craig Kimbrel, ATL 
RHP Lance Lynn, STL 
LHP Wade Miley, ARI 
RHP Jonathan Papelbon, PHI 
RHP Stephen Strasburg, WAS 
RHP Huston Street, SD 
Reserves	
C Yadier Molina, STL 
C Carlos Ruiz, PHI 
1B Bryan LaHair, CHC 
2B Jose Altuve, HOU 
SS Starlin Castro, CHC 
SS Ian Desmond, WAS 
3B David Wright, NYM 
OF Ryan Braun, MIL 
OF Jay Bruce, CIN 
OF Carlos Gonzalez, COL 
OF Andrew McCutchen, PIT 
OF Giancarlo Stanton, MIA 

Johnny Cueto on his snub: "I don't know what happened. I don't know if the manager of the All-Star Game is pissed at me because I went out with one of his girlfriends." haha to be honest it probably has more to do with Cueto kicking LaRussa's catcher (Jason Larue) in the head with spikes, apparently ending his career. What career? :haha


What do you make of the All Star Roster. I'm glad to see Derek Jeter on it, I missed seeing him last year and wanted to see him back, of course Robinson Cano is the captain of the home run derby, I'm even more excited to see Toronto represented by Jose Bautista who had a poor game last year but who I hope can be better this year, I hope that David Price is considered as a starting pitcher. The players voted Lance Lynn 5th on the pitchers list. Wrap your head around that for a minute.


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## PaysageDHiver

I despise everything about the all-star game these days.


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## Ironpain

Agree or disagree that's fine but The Jays need to consider whether John Farrell is their best option in the long run, he came in wanting to change the team around, The Jays have gotten use to having him around, he's a very positive and constructive coach and I'm sure the Players love having him, it's tough but under these circumstances what does Alex Anthropolus do? he can A. 

Fire him or B hope that he can change the mental dynamic of the players and produce a turn around. You let Farrell go now it's tough to find a coach that's going to be able to fix what's wrong, it's also like the Leaf thing, it's very easy to blame it on the coach and fire them instead of holding the players responsible.

Blaming the coach changed nothing for the Leafs, at the end of the day the Leafs still lost and Brian Burke still has his job, MLSE though doesn't care about whether TO sports teams win or lose, as long as the fans are gullible enough to buy high priced tickets. 

How many games is Farrell gonna cost us this year. He has no clue how to manage the later innings.

Not to mention questionable batter lineups for the most of the season, overly aggressive baserunning mentality that is to the point of stupidity and not holding players accountable for mental mistakes (baserunning, fielding mistakes, not hustling to 1st base etc) which seem to have grown under the Farrell helm. His bullpen mismanagement is out of control. 

He's actually hurting the team right now, no idea how to manage a pen and some of the most ridiculous strategic calls I have ever seen. I have an idea, let's continue to send our slowest runner on hit and runs with two strikes when a guy who strikes out at 35% rate is at the plate Nothing bad could possibly happen.

Problem is you fire a guy like Farrell who since coming in has really given it his best, you can tell he cares about the players but sometimes it's not enough to be a caring coach you have to do what's best for the team and if it means that you are not the best fit anymore it's time to call it in, tough but the best interest in the team is giving them the opportunity be their best and if it means stepping aside sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.

We did sign a 2nd rounder 

BlueJays sign 2nd-rder Chase DeJong for $860k (pick value=$620,300). Calif HS RHP is 6-ft-5, flashes plus FB & curve, DeJong is a 6’5 pitcher from Woodrow Wilson High School in Long Beach, California. The lanky right-hander has plenty of room to get stronger and certainly looks the part of a Toronto Blue Jays draft pick: big and projectable. DeJong throws a fastball, curve, and a changeup. 

The fastball sits in the high 80s and low 90s, but has been noted as high as 94 this spring. It is mostly straight although does have arm-side run at times. He has a nice feel for the curve for such a young age, as it already has a sharp downward bite to it. He also has a nice feel for the changeup, maintaining fastball arm speed when throwing it.

DeJong is thought to be one of the higher upside players coming out of the 2012 high-school crop, being compared at times to Adam Wainwright. He produces a great downward plane on his pitches and has an easy, repeatable delivery to go along with the repertoire of pitches discussed above. 

It is clear that general manager Alex Anthopoulos has developed a strong plan for organizational development: acquire high upside, projectable (which often means large-framed) arms to go along with toolsy, athletic hitters.

The Blue Jays will now turn their attention to their last unsigned marquee draft pick, Duke RHP Marcus Stroman. The Blue Jays still have $2,131,340 to play with for Stroman without losing a draft pick next year, which would be above the slot value of $1.8MM allotted for the 22nd overall pick. It was last reported that the Blue Jays were offering slot value to Stroman.

Jays had two great games against the Angels, today was just not our day, sad because it would have been nice for the Jays to get a win on Canada day but the Jays came up short, the Angels had CJ Wilson on the mound so that fired up their defense, the Jays offensive game was off and of course Cordero needs to be sent down to the minors or traded.


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## Ironpain

A number of early folk games in England had characteristics that can be seen in modern baseball (as well as in cricket and rounders). Many of these early games involved a ball that was thrown at a target while an opposing player defended the target by attempting to hit the ball away. If the batter successfully hit the ball, he could attempt to score points by running between bases while fielders would attempt to catch or retrieve the ball and put the runner out in some way.

Since they were folk games, the early games had no official, documented rules, and they tended to change over time. To the extent that there were rules, they were generally simple and were not written down. There were many local variations, and varied names.

Many of the early games were not well documented, first, because they were generally peasant games (and perhaps children's games, as well); and second, because they were often discouraged, and sometimes even prohibited, either by the church or by the state, or both.

Aside from obvious differences in terminology, the games differed in the equipment used (ball, bat, club, target, etc., which were usually just whatever was available), the way in which the ball is thrown, the method of scoring, the method of making outs, the layout of the field and the number of players involved.

An old English game called "base," described by George Ewing at Valley Forge, was apparently not much like baseball. There was no bat and no ball involved. The game was more like a fancy game of "tag," although it did share the concept of places of safety (for example, bases) with modern baseball.

In an 1801 book entitled The Sports and Pastimes of the People of England, Joseph Strutt claimed to have shown that baseball-like games can be traced back to the 14th century, and that baseball is a descendant of a United Kingdom game called stoolball. The earliest known reference to stoolball is in a 1330 poem by William Pagula, who recommended to priests that the game be forbidden within churchyards.

In stoolball, a batter stood before a target, perhaps an upturned stool, while another player pitched a ball to the batter. If the batter hit the ball (with a bat or his/her hand) and it was caught by a fielder, the batter was out. If the pitched ball hit a stool leg, the batter was out. Traditionally it was played by milkmaids who used their milking stools as a "wicket," according to one belief while waiting for their husbands to return from working in the fields.:lol:lol:lol

haha just some humor added in.


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## anonymid

Dontrelle Willis has announced his retirement.

He was a helluva pitcher for a brief time; fun to watch and easy to root for. Battled anxiety issues . . . too bad he was never able to get his career back together.


----------



## Silent Image

The Orioles have sucked for two weeks and still have a wildcard spot.

It won't be like that for long if they don't start playing better


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## Ironpain

Andrew McCutchen is killing it Hitting .360 on the year (which currently leads MLB), 105 hits, 17 doubles, 16 homers, 54 RBI, 14 steals, .412 obp, and a 1.022 OPS. Pretty solid by itself, but when you consider the guys hitting around him and how sluggish their offense has been outside of him (although Pedro Alvarez has come on lately), that's a pretty remarkable half-season right there. And as the season wears on, he's just getting better and better. 

Hit .302 in April, .360 in May, and .370 in June (with 7 homers and 26 RBI).Finally flashing that superstar potential. He's always been very solid, but he's looking like a monster right now. People who buy into defensive metrics call him overrated on defense.......but I don't see it. 

He looks damn good out there. Hopefully he can avoid another second-half slump. Gotta feel good for Pirates fans to see him performing at this level after signing that extension. He's signed through '18 at a paltry $14,000,000 plus. 

The Perfect Storm" has to be in consideration from the worst FA signing ever. I'd much rather see Daniel Nava in left than Crawford. Red Sox didn't need him but Theo fell in love with him. The Sox will pay Carl 21 mil in 2017 and the Pirates will be giving McCutcheon $14,750,000.


----------



## Ironpain

Pirates or Mets? 

Neither of these teams were expected to contend, though some 'experts' were optimistic that Pittsburgh would finish at or around .500.Going into the season the NL East looked like the 2nd-toughest division in baseball, and for the first couple of months it seemed like it. Now the Phillies have tanked, the Marlins had a horrendous June, and the Braves are just falling apart. 

Pirates are now in first place in the central. McCutchen has been the only guy in the lineup who's been consistently great. Alverez and Jones have big power numbers, but McCutchen has been their spark(.360, .412, .610, 16 HR, 14 SB). 

Their starting pitching isn't going to amaze, but Lincoln has been one of the best starters in baseball and Burnett finally has his ERA under 4.00. Correia and Bedard have been serviceable. 

Their bullpen deserves a lot of credit, particularly Hanrahan, Cruz, and Grilli. Right now I still think the Reds are the more talented team, but if the Pirates can land a big bat then I think we have to take them seriously. 

Had no clue the Mets pitching would be this good. I expected Niese and Dickey to have solid years, but figured Santana would see some struggles after not pitching for so long. 

I had Ike Davis down for an All-Star prior to the season and he's been awful(.200, .273, .380), yet he's managed to knock in 45 runs. His home/away splits are pretty confusing. I know he plays in a pitchers park, but jesus. 

Home: 40 games, .124, .203, .190, 4 XBH 
Away: 37 games, .269, .336, .552, 20 XBH 

Anyway, who's got the best shot at making the playoffs? Both teams are likely to upgrade their offense via trade


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## Ironpain

Sadly, I highly doubt he'll be on the Phils next year. The Phillies don't ever do 7 year deals (which is what he's reportedly asking for $150/7yr) with pitchers, and understandably so. (see also, Barry Zito). He'll probably end up on the Dodgers,


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## flarf

is it too early to predict the playoffs? anyway, here's what i think the NL will look like come october: nats, cards, and giants win their divisions and the reds and dodgers get the two wild card spots. i have no idea why i think this and can offer no empirical evidence to support my predictions.


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## Ironpain

iwearshirts said:


> is it too early to predict the playoffs? anyway, here's what i think the NL will look like come october: nats, cards, and giants win their divisions and the reds and dodgers get the two wild card spots. i have no idea why i think this and can offer no empirical evidence to support my predictions.


No it is never too early to start making predictions, sadly the Jays just don't have the pitching or the numbers to sneak into that Wild card, I see the NL leading the charge with The Reds, The Giants and Nat's.


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## anonymid

Lots of trades starting to go down . . .


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Lots of trades starting to go down . . .


Ichiro is going to the Yankees never thought I'd see that day come but it's the same with Kevin Youklis never thought you'd be seeing him in a White Sox uniform, I would feel the same way if Jose Bautista (DL) went to the Yankees or Tampa Bay I'd have a hard time with it but I'd still root for him.

Tigers acquire Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante?For Jacob Turner. Nice deal for the Tigers....The teams also swap the picks they obtained in last week's competitive balance lottery, Peter Gammons of MLB Network tweets. The Marlins obtain prospects Rob Brantly and Brian Flynn along with Turner, Gammons tweets.

I'm glad the Tigers were able to make a solid deal without giving away Castellanos.So the Oakland A's are tied for a WC spot.....anybody see this coming? 4-way tie between the Angels, Orioles, White Sox, and A's. Aside from the Angels.

I didn't expect any of those teams(especially the Orioles) to be in contention this late. Rays are 1.5 back and the Red Sox are just 2.5 back. Gonna be a cluster you know what in late September.... After trading away Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, and Brett Anderson everyone assumed they'd be one of the worst teams in all of baseball.

The players they acquired are doing a pretty nice job though. Seth Smith, Jonny Gomes, Yoenis Cespedes, and Tommy Milone have all paid off pretty well. Josh Reddick is having a tremendous year and he's been really consistent with his splits.

Hitting lefties and righties well. He's actually hitting better at home, but his away numbers are pretty good as well. Rest of that lineup is awful though. They've mainly done this with solid pitching.

I'd love to discuss Brandon Moss' MVP chances, but I'm busy trying to figure out the similarities between Dan Uggla and Yuniesky Betancourt.On a side note personal apologizes for the sweep of the Red Sox, We Jays we try to go easy it's all good, shake on it  I hate that we lost Bautista but we needed that sweep.


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## anonymid

Anibal Sanchez is a really underrated pitcher; last year he had probably one of the most under-the-radar 200-strikeout seasons a pitcher has ever had. Given how poor Detroit is defensively, adding another starting pitcher who can miss bats is definitely an improvement for them.


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## Ironpain

The Tigers definitely need someone who can sure up the defensive the same way the Jays are looking at 3 Acquisition pitchers to come in and help improve the pitching. 

Now look at a team like the Braves, Would you trade five years of Randall Delgado and a mid-level prospect for two months of Ryan Dempster, who's currently leading the league in ERA? 

He's 35-years-old and owns 3.63 ERA and 1.291 WHIP since being put back into the rotation in 2008. He's reached 200 innings in every one of those years, but he's really only been an above-average pitcher. 

Solid #2 on some clubs, but he's mostly a #3 pitcher. He's having a career year, so obviously the cost of money it would take to extend him goes up after having a disaster of a season last year. Even though he stated that the Braves would be his 2nd choice, he's still deciding whether or not to accept. Keep Delgado

A resounding 'no' from me, unless they can extend him for around $8M annually for no more than 3 years(which won't happen). Right now Delgado is the most coveted young pitcher the Braves have, no way I'd let him go for two months of any starter. Even if the Cubs pay all of his remaining salary.


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## Ironpain

What is the most embarrassing defeat your team has suffered? The Jays were completely humiliated last night 16-0 the worst home loss in franchise history, Ricky Romero had the shortest out of his career, his numbers of just plummeted and he has a terrible self defeating attitude and it carried over into his post game interview.

What I love though is that The Jays didn't dwell on last night's defeat, they didn't bury their heads in the mound so to speak, they already lost Bautista and then last night they lost J.P Arencibia they could have easily have thrown away today's game but they reevaluated, refocused and used that defeat to refuel.

Sometimes what you need to jump start you is a kick in the butt to get you going and The Jays got that, John Farrell executed a smart play by having Travis Snider Bunt that brought in two runs, The Pitching found some confidence, taking out Ricky is a positive, he needs to miss his next start, maybe send him down to the Minors. Jays had an 9-4 lead when I left the game, It shows they are able to recognize their mistakes and work toward fixing things.

I had to do something else so I didn't get to finish the game but they probably won anyways considering the score and the fact that it was already the bottom of the 8th. Massachusetts cop fired for calling Carl Crawford a 'Monday'.http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8202374/cop-fired-slurring-ca rl-crawford-boston-red-sox


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## flarf




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## Ironpain

The only thing I hate about the Olympics right now, is that I don't get to watch Baseball, I don't have the MLB network, TSN 2, The only channels I do have, are showing The Olympics. In any case The Jays are still at the bottom 53 wins-56 Loses. Tigers are still in second in their division, things are still where they were the last time I was watching.


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## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> The only thing I hate about the Olympics right now, is that I don't get to watch Baseball, I don't have the MLB network, TSN 2, The only channels I do have, are showing The Olympics. In any case The Jays are still at the bottom 53 wins-56 Loses. Tigers are still in second in their division, things are still where they were the last time I was watching.


mlb.com streams one live game for free every day.


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> mlb.com streams one live game for free every day.


Thanks  From what I've been able to gather, The Phillies just seem to have the Braves number. Get this, they are 1-0 in their last 1 game against them. In that span they are outscoring them by an average score of 3-0. If that is not domination I do not know what is.

Kyle Kendrick....6-1 with a 2.28 ERA in 11 career starts against the Braves. The Reds have played more games against .500+ opponents with a higher winning percentage, than the Nats, pirates, white sox, tigers, braves, yankees, angels, rays, orioles, cardinals, dodgers, giants, a's


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## NWZ

Felix!!!
Something good finally happened!
God it sucks being a Mariners fan.


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## coldsorehighlighter

...and there's a standard pop-fly to right field at Yankee stadium...oh wait...home run...


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## PaysageDHiver

Ironpain said:


> Thanks  From what I've been able to gather, The Phillies just seem to have the Braves number.


Not this year.


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## flarf

BASEBALL RUMOR: bartolo colon actually ATE melky cabrera, accounting for his testing positive for testosterone.


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## EagerMinnow84




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## Ironpain

iwearshirts said:


> BASEBALL RUMOR: bartolo colon actually ATE melky cabrera, accounting for his testing positive for testosterone.


Who in return both ate Barry Bonds, this area has been relatively quite for a while. The Jays despite a much needed win in Detroit yesterday, are still making excuses for Ricky Romero's terrible pitching, Romero should have been down in the minors by now, his poor starts have allowed 11 runs (I could be off) but it's either there or higher.

The Jays have been missing their Star player, Jose Bautista since July 16th with a wrist injury as well as Brett Lawrie and still presently considered their number 1 catcher J.P Arencibia. Jose is believed to be returning for tonight's game. Jay's sit in last (No surprise) in their division, Boston is fortunate right now that we are in last place.

Speaking of Boston, I was watching The Boston, Angels match up, What was that? Boston just gave up runs, there were some embarrassing errors in that game, Boston was up 6-1 and just gave up 5 runs just like that. It was ridiculous, at least Sorales isn't Ricky I don't deserve a Bobble Head Romero, that guy has been in a depressed funk for ever.

So just a random question here uhm are Braves fans still mad about losing Bobby Rayburn to the Giants in 1996. Bobby left a huge void in their lineup and they haven't won a World Series since his departure in 1996. There's a rumor right now and just that, that John Farrell would be given the head coaching job in Boston if Bobby Valentine was let go but it seems like Valentine will get a contract extension (Sorry Boston)


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## Ironpain

The news that Carl Crawford needs Tommy John surgery brings to an end the second season of his seven-year, $142 million contract with the Red Sox. As Jay Jaffe wrote earlier today on the Hit and Run blog, due to Crawford's various injuries and poor performance (which are clearly related, though that's small consolation for the team or its fans), through those first two seasons, the Red Sox have spent $39.5 million for less than one win worth of value, per the wins above replacement stats*. That got us wondering which big-money, long-term contracts have proven to be the biggest busts in terms of dollars per wins above replacement. 

*Jay quoted Baseball Prospectus's WARP, which puts Crawford's contributions at 0.7 wins above replacement; I'll be using Baseball-Reference's WAR (bWAR), which puts him at 0.4, a negligible difference. 

First, a few ground rules. The contracts in question must be at least four-years (long-term) and have a total value of at least $20 million (big money). Among other things, that helps eliminate some of the bizarre, decade-long contracts from the early days of free agency that had average annual values at or below a million dollars. It also restricts us to contracts that are hard to get rid-of. A bad three-year contract, for example, can be dumped after just two bad seasons. 

Also, for my primary list, I'm going to only include contracts that have reached their fourth year. So, Crawford and other recent signees are not yet eligible, though I'll show you where he'd fall on the list after I present it. For the active contracts that are included below I calculated the cost per win above replacement using a pro-rated three-fourths of their 2012 salary.

To be continued


----------



## Ironpain

Here are some examples. ( This is Sports Illustrated's Worst Contracts) 

1. Chan Ho Park, RHP, Rangers 
Contract: $65 million/five years 
bWAR: -0.6 
$/bWAR: N/A 

My research produced three contracts that fit my above criteria and yielded a negative bWAR. Of those three, Park's was the most expensive, thus earning the top spot on this list. Park, the first Korean-born major leaguer, excelled for the Dodgers prior to becoming a free agent after the 2001 season. He was an All-Star that year and in the last two seasons before his free agency averaged 16 wins, 218 strikeouts and a 3.38 ERA (122 ERA+), but the move from pitching-friendly Dodger Stadium to the homer-happy Ballpark In Arlington didn't agree with him. 

Park also suffered from a variety of ailments, from the pedestrian (hamstring strain, blisters) to severe (back problems that limited him to seven starts in 2003 and a life-threatening intestinal issue in 2006). Banking on their friendlier ballpark, the Padres sent Phil Nevin to Texas for Park at the trade deadline during the fourth year of his deal, but he was no better for them. His ERA+ in 68 starts for Texas: 83; in 30 starts and four relief appearances for San Diego: 79. 


6. Mike Hampton, LHP, Rockies 
Contract: $121 million/eight years 
bWAR: 1.8 
$/bWAR: $67.22 million 

Hampton's contract is remembered for the injuries that plagued him in the second half of it (he started just 25 games and threw just 147 1/3 in the second four years of the deal, missing the 2006 and 2007 seasons entirely). Yet, over the first four years (2001-04) he averaged 30 starts and 186 innings a season. The trouble was, he wasn't any good. 

Hampton "earned" his contract with fine seasons for the Astros and Mets in pitching-friendly ballparks in Houston and Queens, but it only took two years and a 5.75 ERA (88 ERA+) for the Rockies to realize their mistake. After the 2002 season Colorado orchestrated a complicated three-team trade that sent Hampton to the Braves via the Marlins and managed to get the Marlins to help Atlanta pay his contract by taking on the salaries of catcher Charles Johnson and outfielder Preston Wilson. Hampton started to right his ship in Atlanta, where he posted a 106 ERA+ in 2003 and 2004, but then his elbow gave out. He missed all of 2006 and 2007 due to injuries and made just 44 more appearances before retiring after the 2010 season. 

3. Russ Ortiz, RHP, Diamondbacks 
Contract: $33 million/four years 
bWAR: -3.5 
$/bWAR: N/A 

Purely in terms of performance, the return the Diamondbacks got on their investment in Ortiz was the worst on this list. In the four years (2000-03) prior to signing with Arizona before the 2004 season, Ortiz averaged 17 wins and a 3.71 ERA (111 ERA+) for the Giants and Braves, but he was so bad for the Diamondbacks (5-16, 7.00 ERA in 28 starts with more walks than strikeouts) that they cut him in the middle of the second year of his deal, eating the $17.75 million he was owed over the next two years just for the privilege of getting him off the roster. 

Ortiz subsequently resurfaced with the Orioles, Giants, Astros and Dodgers but didn't throw as many as 90 innings with any of those teams and was never close to being even an average pitcher again. Man, I forgot about Russ Ortiz. I've always felt Darren Dreifort's contract to be the most head-scratching, mostly for the reasons cited above. I remember when they signed him to that ridiculous deal and questioning it even then, and then laughing at the ensuing disaster that unfolded.


----------



## NWZ

Another example is the Mariners signing Chone Figgins for $36 million/four years. Almost three years into the contract Figgins has been worth -1.4 bWAR, and it is very possible that he would be even worse if he was still given regular playing time.


----------



## danberado

Dodgers are the little steam engine that could, morphed into the unstoppable steam engine that will.


----------



## Samtrix

How are the Angels doing so bad? If I wasn't a Ranger fan, I'd almost feel bad for them. Even the A's are doing better.


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## anonymid

The Angels' bullpen has been really awful--well, the starters other than Weaver have been pretty bad, too, but the bullpen has been especially terrible. And Mike Trout might end up losing out on the MVP award because of it.


----------



## PaysageDHiver

iwearshirts said:


> BASEBALL RUMOR: bartolo colon actually ATE melky cabrera, accounting for his testing positive for testosterone.


Ha! Post of the year.


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## flarf




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## anonymid

^ :lol

This is still my favorite baseball gif of the year, though:


----------



## anonymid




----------



## Buerhle

anonymid said:


>


Lol.


----------



## Ironpain

Who saw this coming? The Padres Winners of 8 straight and making this 676-team WC race more interesting than it should be. Braves now have to beat two soft-tossing lefties to win this series. 

One streak will be over tomorrow. Either the Padres will win 9 straight or the Braves will win their 16th consecutive game that Kris Medlen starts. they gave chipper jones a surfboard as a going away gift last night! 


So far every park he's visited has given him a gift. Who Is The NL Cy Young Leading Candidate As of Now?Kershaw, Cueto, Dickey, Cain, Gonzalez? (any you want to add) 

Dickey: 18-4, 198 IP, 2.64 ERA, 1.025 WHIP, 7.2 H/9, 2.0 BB/9, 8.9 K/9, 5 CG, 3shut outs. 

Kershaw: 12-8, 199.2 IP, 2.79 ERA, 1.022 WHIP, 6.9 H/9, 2.3 BB/9, 9.1 K/9, 2 CG, 1 shutout 

Cueto: 17-7, 188.2 IP, 2.58 ERA, 1.124 WHIP, 8.2 H/9, 2.0 BB/9 7.1 K/9, 2 CG, 0 shutouts 

Cain: 13-5, 187 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.032 WHIP, 7.5 H/9, 1.8 BB/9, 8/2 K/9, 2 CG, 2 shutouts 

Gio Gonzalez: 18-7, 175.1 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.118 WHIP, 6.8 H/9, 3.2 BB/9, 9.5 K/9, 2 CG, 1 shutout 


I think it's between Dickey and Kershaw. They're really close in WHIP, ERA, innings pitched, and strikeouts. They have the same number of quality starts, but Dickey gets almost a full run more in run support, which may be why there's such a big difference in wins. I personally don't put to much into wins when it comes to the Cy Young. 

If I had to pick right this moment, I'd go with Dickey. But looking back at Kershaw's September last year on an inferior Dodgers team to the one they have now, I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it again.


----------



## anonymid

I'm rooting for Dickey, but I'd vote for Cueto if the season ended today. Doing what he's doing in the launching pad that is Great American Ballpark is really impressive. Most of those other guys play in very pitcher-friendly home parks.


----------



## brewpacksox

Hardcore Brewers and White Sox fan here.


----------



## Ironpain

About 5 months ago I was talking about how pumped I was to see the Jays and how exciting this year was going to be and the Jays commercial showing how they were ready to go and be this contending team. 

Now it's like that was just a dream, injuries, pitching trouble, all that hype was the same ole talk from the back office about how they are turning things around but all MLSE cares about is revenue and feeding the bottom line, I'd feel even worse for the Jays if I didn't think about the less fortunate Red Sox.

It's like when your parents said to you, there's people less fortunate than you, that's The Red Sox, they are the starving child of baseball, they are just struggling (I know bad analogy) but I guess while I'm express disappointment in yet another crappy Jay's season in which we've lost twice to Boston (ARGH) I can't cry too much because it could be worse we could be The Red Sox.


----------



## anonymid




----------



## Ironpain

anonymid said:


>


:lol haha Tim Lincecum eating like a monster, nom nom.


----------



## Ironpain

Padres use 5 pitchers to get 3 outs in 9th inning of 1-run game. Jesus Christ. Sure, it worked out in the end, but still... Bud Black's wife must be a horrible wench if he's that desperate to delay going home.Talk about micromanaging. 

Miguel Cabrera, Triple Crown winner? Yay or Nay? 21 straight for the Braves and Medlen 8 IP, 4 hits, 0 runs, 1 BB, 6 K. Lowered his ERA 1.51 and his WHIP to 0.941 on the year. As a starter he has a 0.76 ERA. 

Kimbrel's gonna get the Cy Young votes, but Medlen's been more valuable overall. He won NL Pitcher of The Month in August and he just might win it for September. He was under 100 pitches after the 8th, so he could have had his 3rd complete game of the year if it wasn't a save situation. 

Yet Fredi Gonzalez is still considering having Hudson start the play-in game.... heard Citi field is like a ghost town Yowza! I think Hugh Hefner has a better chance of striking someone out than Jeremy Hefner! Time to take the boy out!


----------



## brewpacksox

Hell will freeze over before the White Sox win a series against the Royals. :roll


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## Ironpain

Oh well this season is over, Jays back to the bottom of the barrel, once again back to preparing for another year. Toronto Sports teams sure know how to break my heart year after year, congrats to the Washington Nationals wow they haven't made the playoffs since before the (excuse me) Second World War, I hope that I can at least see The Jays get back to the playoffs in my life time, we aren't even in contention. 

Same old Jays.


----------



## Cam1

Ironpain said:


> Oh well this season is over, Jays back to the bottom of the barrel, once again back to preparing for another year. Toronto Sports teams sure know how to break my heart year after year, congrats to the Washington Nationals wow they haven't made the playoffs since before the First World War, I hope that I can at least see The Jays get back to the playoffs in my life time, we aren't even in contention.
> 
> Same old Jays.


Going into the season I was expecting them to be doing what the Orioles are doing right now....


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## anonymid

Melky Cabrera disqualified from batting title by request.

Love this response:



> The "batting title" is a statistic, not an award. So, basically, Melky Cabrera asked to be exempted from math, and MLB granted it.


I was actually kind of rooting for Melky to win the title, just to witness the outrage that would've ensued.


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Melky Cabrera disqualified from batting title by request.
> 
> Love this response:
> 
> I was actually kind of rooting for Melky to win the title, just to witness the outrage that would've ensued.


So who wins the NL batting title now?	
With Cabrera out, it's between Posey @ .335 and McCutchen at .339.

Both are hitting well. Posey has the best average in the NL since the All star break.

Who wins it?

I say Posey pulls it out.
I can only imagine the outrage if he had.


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## Ironpain

Anyone believe that the Giants won't welcome Melky back in October?I remember hearing that they wouldn't. Not only did Melky test positive, he never even bothered to address his teammates after his suspension. That's apparently what the players and coaches are upset about the most. 

I think they're being honest about it. Since his suspension, they've hit .290, .343, .427 as a team and went 25-11. A lot of that has to do with Buster Posey hitting close to .400 over that span, but it's not a terrible offensive club. Bringing him back would only cause uproar. Pence has been garbage, but Pagan and Blanco are solid. Plus, what good is a PED-less Melky Cabrera anyway? 

On the other hand, the Giants welcomed back Mota, who got caught twice, which is absolutely ridiculous.The only reason I'd really want him to stay away so that I wouldn't have to see those Moronic fans dress up as 1950's milk men.


----------



## anonymid

I'm guessing he's probably played his last game for the Giants.

He should be pretty inexpensive for a team looking to take a chance on him next year.


----------



## brewpacksox

Yeah, I think he's done as a Giant.


----------



## T-Bone

That's right, big red machine coming to destroy all you naysayers! mauahahaha
*GO REDS!!!*

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25009231&topic_id=8879132&c_id=cin


----------



## Ironpain

Good lord are the white sox awful How the hell did this team win 81 games? The Angels have just owned them this weekend, trust me all the bandwagoners who were riding them at the start are now slowly jumping ship, the wheels are coming off. 

I hear that Tropicana field is one of the worst fields in baseball if not the worst, Longoria hit a homer off of a light fixture and when the ball landed it splashed in a puddle of water in foul territory........ The turf looks like it's covered in mold in most places.


The Orioles and Extra Innings..They just can't lose in extra innings. Yeah the Reds are serious this year, I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds or Giants got into the world series either against (I hate to say it) The Yankees or shockingly Oakland but it will be more so Detroit and or Texas, time will tell.


----------



## brewpacksox

I know it's hard to believe watching them play now, but the White Sox did not play this horribly most of the year. It sucks that they're gonna ruin this at the very end.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

So the two teams in each league that clinch spots in the one game playoff...are really going to have champagne celebrations for it? Really...?


----------



## brewpacksox

I've seen a lot of speculation that eventually (hopefully next year) the 2 wildcards will play an actual series instead of just 1 game. 

Expanding the playoffs this year happened at the last minute, that's why everything's so half-assed. Such as the lower seeds getting home-field advantage. :roll

They should have just waited until next year, to do it properly.


----------



## anonymid

Adam Greenberg will finally be getting his one at-bat. Awesome story.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

anonymid said:


> Adam Greenberg will finally be getting his one at-bat. Awesome story.


I watched his first non at bat. It was scary. I cannot believe that was 7 years ago.


----------



## brewpacksox

I can't believe no AL teams have clinched yet! Talk about tight races.


----------



## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Adam Greenberg will finally be getting his one at-bat. Awesome story.


I read that story in the paper this morning, that's great, it was really great of the Marlins to give him a second chance, who lets hope history doesn't repeat itself.


----------



## Ironpain

Looks like Harper's got the ROY in the bag He probably would have won with 10 HR anyway, but Wade Miley looked like he had a shot until posting an ERA near 6.00 in 5 starts in September. 

Miley: 16-11, 187 IP, 3.32 ERA, 1.198 WHIP, 1.8 BB/9, 6.4 K/9 

Harper: 578 PA, .264, .334, .465, 21 HR, 58 RBI, 17 SB(6 CS) 

Performance wise, it should be close. But Miley's not exactly fapping material for the media like Harper is. Harper wins easily.... 

Or Todd Fraizer: 413 AB, .278/.337/.508 19 HR, 65 RBI 

Do you think the Brewers should Ax John Axford?


----------



## brewpacksox

Until yesterday, Axford was good for quite a while. But overall this year was nowhere near last year. It'll be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Ironpain

No one wants to put the hex on Homer Bailey's no-hitter?No hits, one walk through eight, and only 99 pitches.


----------



## brewpacksox

And he got it. Congrats to him.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

So many no-hitters this year...I need to check the stats to make sure I didn't throw one too.


----------



## WhoDey85

Way to go Homer! Of course I missed it! Damn!!!!!!


----------



## Yankees19

Go YANKEES! The road to number 28 boys! Any yanks fans on here?


----------



## anonymid

One year later, and I'm actually rooting for my favorite team to _lose_ to the Baltimore Orioles. Go figure.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

anonymid said:


> One year later, and I'm actually rooting for my favorite team to _lose_ to the Baltimore Orioles. Go figure.


:lol Me too...me too...I'm also hoping the Rays can somehow overtake the Yankees, as well...and knock them right out of the playoffs altogether. 

And don't feel bad..it's rooting against your team but it's for a good cause. We have 29 favourite teams, remember? The Red Sox and everyone but the Yankees...and maybe we'll sweep them in the last series of the year...:clap


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> :lol Me too...me too...I'm also hoping the Rays can somehow overtake the Yankees, as well...and knock them right out of the playoffs altogether.
> 
> And don't feel bad..it's rooting against your team but it's for a good cause. We have 29 favourite teams, remember? The Red Sox and everyone but the Yankees...and maybe we'll sweep them in the last series of the year...:clap


Yeah, absolutely. 

The Yankees not making the playoffs altogether would be the sweetest, but even just having to see them sweat it out in the play-in game would be fun.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

And they'd have to use C.C...yeah, just not winning the division will be fun to see.


----------



## Ironpain

Cabrera ties Hamilton in HR's.Triple Crown update. Buster Posey vs Yadier MolinaPosey likely wins the MVP award, especially if he wins the batting title. He's also got the advantage of playing on a team that doesn't have a powerhouse offense like the Cardinals have. Posey plays half of his games in a pitchers paradise, so that's also in his favor. Here's what both players have done on offense.... 

Posey: 592 PA, .333, .405, .539, 23 HR, 100 RBI, 1 SB(1 CS) 

Molina: 545 PA, .320, .378, .512, 22 HR, 75 RBI, 12 SB(3 CS) 

Posey has the advantage in every category except stolen bases. The lack of RBI's for Molina can be explained by the fact that he's only had about 170 plate appearances above the 6th spot in the lineup. He's actually been tremendous with RISP(.340 AVG) and with men on in general(.339 AVG). All but 10 of Posey's plate appearances came in the cleanup spot. Posey has caught 108 games(466 PA) at the catcher position, Molina has caught 129(534 PA). 

Posey: 85 SB, 36 CS.....30% CS, 2 pick-offs, 8 errors in 949 innings 

Molina: 38 SB, 34 CS....47% CS, 5 pick-offs, 3 errors in 1126 innings 

League average for CS% is 26% 

Posey's a pretty good defensive catcher, but Molina is in his own category here. Not just with his arm, he's tremendous at blocking and framing pitches, as well as blocking runners at the plate(which Posey apparently isn't allowed to do anymore, he just swipes at the runner with his mitt like he's at short-stop). 

The significant defensive and base-running advantage Molina has won't be enough to put him ahead of Posey for the MVP, but when you factor in all of that it's closer than a lot of people think, at least in terms of overall value. Posey's been a little better on offense, but Molina has been significantly better on defense. Without bringing WAR into the equation, I'll just go ahead and say that Posey's been the better overall player, but it's close for me. Molina deserves a top 5 finish in the voting regardless. 


Posey has carried the Giants the second half, especially after the Cabrera debacle. Everyone thought the Giants were done at that point, especially the Dodgers and their fans and Posey said F you, I'll take care of this myself. He is the definition of an MVP this year.

The White Sox and Tiger opponents would have to go 7-1 or 8-0 to win the division outright. If they go 6-2, they have a 50% chance in a 1 game playoff. Anything worse and the Tigers win outright.


----------



## brewpacksox

The Brewers are officially eliminated. Still a heck of a run though. Never thought they'd make it so interesting just a month ago. 

And the White Sox will be eliminated with either another loss or a another Tigers win. Very disappointing, after leading the division all season.


----------



## anonymid




----------



## Ironpain

anonymid said:


>


Baseball's version of Air Guitar, or he wants to become the first professional Mime baseball player.


----------



## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> Baseball's version of Air Guitar, or he wants to become the first professional Mime baseball player.


Complete video here . . . what a bizarre play. :lol


----------



## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Complete video here . . . what a bizarre play. :lol


Couldn't have said it any better, haha I didn't really catch that, he hit it off the wall it was apparently still in play, than he runs the bases and runs back to home has to mimic a hit and run again lol bizarre indeed.


----------



## Ironpain

So I’ve got Mr. Bobby Valentine sitting here. I was just going to ask him a couple of questions.....

So I remember when the BoSox had Terry Francona as Manager. Everyone was crying when he helped them win two World Series. And then all hell broke loose over a chicken and beer, and overweight ballplayers scandal, and then you came along, and talked about hope and change, hope and change, hope and change.

And then I found out that your players hate you. Now that is something to cry about. I mean you haven’t done enough ~ ownership has not done enough to cure that. Whatever interest they have is not strong enough. So, I think that possibly, maybe it is time for someone else to come along and solve the problems. What do you think?

So, Mr. Valentine, how do you handle promises that you’ve made to turn around the Boston Red Sox? I mean how do you handle it? I mean, what do you say to your lineup? ~ Oh, I see. You don’t.

I know even some of the people in your own clubhouse are very disappointed in you. So much so that they held secret meetings with ownership to get you fired. What do you think about that? ~ What? What do you mean shut up? I’m not going to shut up! It’s my turn!

What? What do you want me to tell the players? I can’t tell them to do that. They can’t do that to themselves! You’re absolutely crazy! You’re getting as bad as Lackey. Of course we all know that Lackey is the intellect of the Boston Red Sox! Kind of like a grin with a body behind it.

Now Mr. Valentine, Red Sox Nation is hurting. I mean hurting man! What do you have to say to RSN? I mean come on man! They deserve an explanation. They want you gone! They call you an a_s clown! ~ What? If I told them to do that to themselves, this world would be a very happy place!

You see, I never thought that it was a good idea to bring you on anyway. I think it’s maybe time..... What do you think? For maybe a business man to come on board. A stellar business man! And I think it’s that time, and you step aside, so that Mr. Francona can take over again.

Anyway, I’m sorry. What? No, I can’t do that to myself either. you are an employee. And when somebody does not do the job, we’ve got to let them go. So I take it Red Sox fans you are happy that Balitmore won, you went through 86 years of the curse of the Bambino, I don't think this will bring you down.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Verlander in 2011: 34 starts, 2.40 ERA, 251 innings, 4 complete games, 250 strikeouts, 24 HR allowed, 8.3 WAR

Verlander in 2012: 33 starts, 2.64 ERA, 238.1 innings, 6 complete games, 239 strikeouts, 19 HR allowed, 7.5 WAR

In 2011, he ran away with the MVP and yet in 2012, no talk about him being the MVP this year, even with _nearly_ identical stats. The only difference is 24 wins vs 17 wins.

*Wins are a team stat.*


----------



## anonymid

^ Yeah, he's been great again. He'd get my Cy Young vote--the innings advantage he has over the other contenders is just too huge to ignore--but I'm guessing Price is probably going to win it. Innings pitched is the most underrated of the basic pitching stats.

Now that Halladay has finally had a down year, Verlander is probably the undisputed Best Pitcher in Baseball.


----------



## anonymid

Incidentally, the same thing sort of applies to Miguel Cabrera, just in reverse. He's really not having any better of a season than he's had the last couple of years, but the likelihood that he's going to win the Triple Crown has created the perception that he's having a career year and a historic year. He's been great, but no more so than usual.

In fact, if anything, he's actually been a little bit _worse_ offensively than he's been the last two years, especially when you look at his situational stats (run expectancy, win probability, etc.). His on-base percentage--fifty-something points _lower_ than it was last year--explains a lot of that.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Been a tough year, one of the toughest I can remember, but **** it:

LET'S GO RED SOX! CLAPCLAP! CLAPCLAPCLAP!


----------



## brewpacksox

Only the second wildcard in the NL needs to be set now. And then a whole bunch of positioning in the AL.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

the cheat said:


> Been a tough year, one of the toughest I can remember, but **** it:
> 
> LET'S GO RED SOX! CLAPCLAP! CLAPCLAPCLAP!


You idiot...you jinxed them...


----------



## Zeppelin

The Seattle Mariners announced that they are going to move the walls up at Safeco to try to increase there wins.

The M's are a joke. I bet many AAA teams can beat them. I remember a couple years ago they played the AAA Tacoma Rainiers, and Tacoma beat them. I think they need a better owner. Until then, go Anaheim


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> You idiot...you jinxed them...


Way to go there. :b


----------



## brewpacksox

The Dodgers lost, making the Cardinals the second wildcard.

The Rangers and A's game is huge tomorrow. The winner wins the division, the loser gets a wildcard.


----------



## Ironpain

The pirates gave chipper jones a base as a going away gift, was a vintage (aka used) rosin bag their second choice.:lol oh yeah the Mets gave him a painting of some sort of Shea. All 10 teams have been determined...

AL East 
NYY (94-67) - 
BAL (93-68) 1

AL Central 
DET (87-74) -

AL West 
OAK (93-68) - 
TEX (93-68) - 
--------------- 
NL East 
WAS (97-64) - 
ATL (93-68) 4

NL Central 
CIN (97-64) - 
STL (87-74) 10

NL West 
SF (94-67) -

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...se-manager-donald-fitzpatrick-of-sexual-abuse, there's no proof, sad though to hear about this, The Red Sox have been through such a crappy year and it's their 100th anniversary and now they have to deal with this on top of it, It's like the Bambino curse decided to make a return, pray it's not another 86 years sigh. RIP Red Sox, I hope you get a better manager next year and get to redeem yourself. Time to close the chapter on this year and hope for better next year.


----------



## Ironpain

RIP 2012 Red Sox :blank there are just no words, Somebody needs to send Bobby the killer Valentine to Jail for murder, he murdered that team or maybe it was suicide, kind of hard to figure it out because this is how I see it and maybe you see it differently but that tool Red Sox called a Manager he needs to go.

ou want a laughing stock, visit Pittsburgh and look at the ownership and futility there. If you want to understand how and why things fell apart, it traces back to the constant interference at the hands of Larry Lucchino. He was at odds with the approach Epstein employed and was root cause for Epstein's departure. 

The approach that was successful in building towards two championships was replaced by longer term contracts for players who did not deliver against marketing hype and expectations. Injuries have always been a fact of life, but the Red Sox had more than their share this season. Still, having to tap into the minors for players not ready for prime time has hurt the team.

And when the marketing of the team overcomes the actual product on the field, you know it's going to be a bumpy ride. What happened to "every pitch counts" campaign? I'll lay odds that the overreaction to the media constructed frenzy of chicken and beer gave us Bobby and this whole new approach that was destined to fail.

While Francona manned up and took the heat, the FO claimed ignorance of what was going on and instead opted to take a tough guy stance. They took away things that the players had had for as long as Francona managed the club and in a sense taking no responsibility and placing blame for failures at his feet. Such is the stuff of being an MLB manager.

What management didn't account for, was the blow-back when Bobby was hired. They threw gasoline on the fire and now have themselves to blame for the season's result. The day Lucchino keeps his hands out of baseball ops is the day the Sox will be able to rebuild and put a competitive team on the field. The first order of business is to can that inept tool - Valentine.

Poor skills in evaluating talent and making lousy deals,Lack of team chemistry and togetherness which they were able to get away with for a while but which finally broke down with the chicken and beer and with players in the clubhouse showing that at least some players weren't all that concerned with what was going on on the field with their teammates.

Let us gather in a moment of silence for the 2012 Red Sox who died a tragic death tonight, Up yours Stankees, the Stankees laughed as the Red Sox life blood dripped away but like the crow they will rise again, SO UP YOURS STANKEES< HOPE YOU CHOKE.


----------



## Ironpain

Strike 3- yourrrrrrrrr out Bobby Valentine. 

Breaking News Red Sox Nation. Bobby Valentine has been sentenced to death for killing The Red Sox, he will not be returning, Ben Cherington is searching for a new manager. What a great day lol. 

:boogie:boogie


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Ironpain said:


> Strike 3- yourrrrrrrrr out Bobby Valentine.
> 
> Breaking News Red Sox Nation. Bobby Valentine has been sentenced to death for killing The Red Sox, he will not be returning, Ben Cherington is searching for a new manager. What a great day lol.
> 
> :boogie:boogie


As a Red Sox fan, going into this year, I didn't care if we went 0-162, I would be happy to just not have to see John Lackey's face every 5th game. Going into 2013, I will feel the same way about Bobby Valentine's face, and not having to see it...but then I'll have to see John Lackey again. I can't win.


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> As a Red Sox fan, going into this year, I didn't care if we went 0-162, I would be happy to just not have to see John Lackey's face every 5th game. Going into 2013, I will feel the same way about Bobby Valentine's face, and not having to see it...but then I'll have to see John Lackey again. I can't win.


Oh man, I'd forgotten completely about Lackey . . . uke


----------



## Ironpain

the cheat said:


> As a Red Sox fan, going into this year, I didn't care if we went 0-162, I would be happy to just not have to see John Lackey's face every 5th game. Going into 2013, I will feel the same way about Bobby Valentine's face, and not having to see it...but then I'll have to see John Lackey again. I can't win.


That is the crappy part, still having to see Lackey. Sometimes even when you win you lose, you just can't catch a break.


----------



## Silent Image

An amazing year by the Orioles!

Hopefully the Orioles win on Friday and continue on to take out the Yankees.

Go O's!


----------



## Ironpain

I dedicate this song to Bobby Valentine



And now I'd like to dedicate a song to John Henry, Larry Lucchino and Ben Cherington


----------



## anonymid

The regular season is over, so time for award picks. I'd go with:

MVP:
AL--Trout
NL--Posey

Cy Young:
AL--Verlander
NL--Kershaw

Rookie of the Year:
AL--Trout
NL--Harper


----------



## anonymid

Way to go O's!


----------



## WhoDey85

Having the team with home field advantage start off on the road is the stupidest thing I have heard.


----------



## brewpacksox

WhoDey85 said:


> Having the team with home field advantage start off on the road is the stupidest thing I have heard.


Seriously. :roll


----------



## giantking1355

Pretty new to the site, just watche the giants lose unfortunately. Reds gave a great effort and had airflow luck on their side today. Probably will be the best division series this year. Looking forward to harpers first playoff game tomorrow. Piece out


----------



## giantking1355

Oops peace lol


----------



## Ironpain

Bochy letting Blanco hit...you can't save your PH for the 9th, you never know if you will get another chance...I was expecting John Bowker. Cleveland Indians hire Terry Francona as manager.Cleveland has the makings of a good infield with Canzler, Kipnis, Cabrera and Chisenhall. 

Masterson is a better pitcher than his stats say. The Ubaldo trade was an epic disaster. The team hasn't had a decent manager since Charlie Manuel. The farm system is crap, I'd say Hafner, which they probably will. I'm not an Indians fan so I really don't care what they do, I have no stake in it, only saying that's what I think they should do. 

It's our Canadian thanksgiving (tomorrow actually) but I'm going to my sisters today, where hopefully I'll get to watch The Patriots vs Bronco's game (Go Pats) but I don't think I'll get a chance to see the Nationals game, hope the Nats win though, I actually want to see how far they can go, this year reminds me of last years NHL with small market teams making it in. 

I don't think I'll see the Baltimore game either but my sister has a tv down stairs so yeah I'll be watching The Pats game today. Hopefully I get to see it here and it's not blocked out. 

That's a Clown question Bro.


----------



## Ironpain

giantking1355 said:


> Oops peace lol


 Welcome to the site Giants King, nice to have more members joining the sports board, it's fun to see other fans come out.


----------



## Ironpain

The Red Sox are pursuing John Farrell, but Ryne Sandberg could be on their list, even though he was just named as the Phillies' third base coach and is likely being groomed for Charlie Manuel's job. Cherington tried to get Sandberg to take Boston's Triple- A job a couple of years ago. 

The Red Sox are looking at getting Jake Peavy once his $22MM option is declined by the White Sox but I'm also hearing that he could be staying in Chicago.Former catcher Brad Ausmus, currently serving as a special assistant to the GM in San Diego, said that he would have interest in the Red Sox managerial vacancy. As of Friday, however, he has yet to be contacted. Right now these are all rumors.


----------



## Cam1

anonymid said:


> The regular season is over, so time for award picks. I'd go with:
> 
> MVP:
> AL--Trout
> NL--Posey
> 
> Cy Young:
> AL--Verlander
> NL--Kershaw
> 
> Rookie of the Year:
> AL--Trout
> NL--Harper


Trout over Cabrera? Can't see that happening.


----------



## anonymid

Cam1 said:


> Trout over Cabrera? Can't see that happening.


I can't either; I'd be shocked if Trout gets more than a handful of first-place votes (if any at all). But I was just listing who I'd vote for, not who I think will actually win. I also think Price will probably win the Cy Young over Verlander, and Dickey over Kershaw (I'm actually rooting for Dickey to win anyway).


----------



## brewpacksox

Cabrera will win the AL MVP, although I agree that it should be Trout.

Not too sure about the AL Cy Young, but I hope Dickey wins the NL Cy Young. It'd be a such a shame if he didn't.


----------



## Ironpain

The Jays are done so might as well start talking about next year.

Draft resource: http://bigleaguefutures.net/1/ According to the following article Jays might have a possible draft game changer. The potential top rated player in the 2014 draft might graduate early and be available for the 2013 draft. Not that the Jays will get him, but it adds another top talent which could push someone else down to the Jays. http://thedailyelkcitian.com/elk-ci...q-he-will-graduate-early-enter-2013-mlb-draft

"[Drew Ward] the highly-touted junior short stop is projected by some as the No. 1 prospect of the 2014 draft, and said "there is about a 95 percent chance" he will graduate high school a year early this spring, then enter the 2013 MLB draft. "I've been talking to some scouts and stuff, or my advisement has, and they told me I was ready to do that," Ward said. "We kind of discussed it and decided to do it. Last year, I started doing all my senior work and got it done."

For those who are unfamiliar with Drew Ward here's a primer: http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=287017 Drew Ward, SS/3B, 6'3 200, L/R, OK 60-YARD DASH: 7.13 IF-ARM: 87mph "Outstanding Bat and all around player, Ball flies off barrel, Very high ceiling, Very good at PG and WWBA."http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=7207

"At the conclusion of the event, one of those PG scouts noted in his report that the left-handed hitting Ward possessed an "open stance, rock back load, good hitting rhythm, aggressive swing with present bat speed, easy low effort actions, ball jumps hard off the barrel, can handle velocity and turn it around, very high-ceiling hitting tools." The scout gave Ward a perfect 10.0 in PG's grading scale.

The Toronto Blue Jays have outrighted LHP Aaron Laffey, RHP Shawn Hill and RHP Bobby Korecky off the 40-man roster. The Blue Jays now have 37 players on the 40-man roster. I would expect McCoy to fill the utility role next year off the bench (considering he can play almost every position and can steal the odd base he's fairly valuable in that role). One of the pieces we need will likely come via trade, probably with some guys like Cooper, Sierra, McDade, etc going the other way. That would open up some room.

I really think AA wants a strong team in AAA this year, so I doubt all of them would go. understand the reasoning of the Jays, but I take issue with the fact that 'Laffey does not belong on an MLB roster' The goal of a pitcher is to limit runs, not get strikeouts, or avoid baserunners. All the other metrics - SIERA, FIP, K/9 etc are imperfect indicators of how a pitcher will perform in the future.

However, Laffey has a career 4.38 ERA with over 470 innings pitched. At some point, with over 2000 batters faced, most people start to realize there's a little more than luck going on here, unless you think that luck is repeatable and consistent. For a bargain price of $850,000, getting a guy to pitch to an ERA of 4.58 with over 100 IP really isn't all that bad of a deal.

The issue with Laffey is that he's really only good for one time through the order. First time through the order, opponents, hit him at a .546 clip. But, second time through, he starts getting hammered. All of his veteran tricks, only work once. He should probably be a long man out of the bullpen, and make the occasional 5 inning start, when required.

As tough as it has been and it has been tough, I'm still a Jays fan, there's so many times as a fan you become so frustrated you want to walk away but yeah as hard as I try to forget about them, they are still my home team, I grew up with them, I went to Jays games as a kid.

Wishing the 2013 Jays the best of luck. Go Jays Go. :clap:clap


----------



## brewpacksox

I want it to be next season so badly.


----------



## Ironpain

The St Louis Cardinals are really taking advantage of Washington's sloppy defense and pitching, Cardinals pitching saw some trouble early on, Garcia the Cardinals Pitcher threw some balls, Bryce Harper has been struggling at the plate, 0 Home runs so far, batting average is there at 235. 

Yadier Molina started it early for the Cards getting that base hit and the rest of the Cardinals at bat have picked it up, again taking advantage of a weak Washington Defense. Washington is making costly mental mistakes. They've been too quick to go after pitches, Bryce Harper was in a hurry for that ball and it cost him. 

David Freese almost got a home run but managed to get it off the wall, but Washington got in a nice first run, Zimmerman came in with that early slide to home while Molina was looking at the outfield. The Shadows at Bush Stadium are going to make that ball even for the Catcher and Ump difficult to see as it comes down that strike Zone (in my best impression of Gregg Zaun lol)

Giants and Reds.

Tim Lincecum struggling in this series so far, been designated to reliever, you get a guy like Lincecum struggling early on your Bruce Bochey you have to make a decision that's best for the team, The Reds are driving in runs, quick to run the bases, make smart plays at the plate, now Dusty Baker he's sending in guys at the clean up spot. you've got guys with good on deck percentages. Reds have a very unorthodox pitching method, that leg kick and the throw.


----------



## WhoDey85

Reds going for the sweep! Party time in the Nati.:banana


----------



## Cam1

Ironpain said:


> The Jays are done so might as well start talking about next year.
> 
> Draft resource: http://bigleaguefutures.net/1/ According to the following article Jays might have a possible draft game changer. The potential top rated player in the 2014 draft might graduate early and be available for the 2013 draft. Not that the Jays will get him, but it adds another top talent which could push someone else down to the Jays. http://thedailyelkcitian.com/elk-ci...q-he-will-graduate-early-enter-2013-mlb-draft
> 
> "[Drew Ward] the highly-touted junior short stop is projected by some as the No. 1 prospect of the 2014 draft, and said "there is about a 95 percent chance" he will graduate high school a year early this spring, then enter the 2013 MLB draft. "I've been talking to some scouts and stuff, or my advisement has, and they told me I was ready to do that," Ward said. "We kind of discussed it and decided to do it. Last year, I started doing all my senior work and got it done."
> 
> For those who are unfamiliar with Drew Ward here's a primer: http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=287017 Drew Ward, SS/3B, 6'3 200, L/R, OK 60-YARD DASH: 7.13 IF-ARM: 87mph "Outstanding Bat and all around player, Ball flies off barrel, Very high ceiling, Very good at PG and WWBA."http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=7207
> 
> "At the conclusion of the event, one of those PG scouts noted in his report that the left-handed hitting Ward possessed an "open stance, rock back load, good hitting rhythm, aggressive swing with present bat speed, easy low effort actions, ball jumps hard off the barrel, can handle velocity and turn it around, very high-ceiling hitting tools." The scout gave Ward a perfect 10.0 in PG's grading scale.
> 
> The Toronto Blue Jays have outrighted LHP Aaron Laffey, RHP Shawn Hill and RHP Bobby Korecky off the 40-man roster. The Blue Jays now have 37 players on the 40-man roster. I would expect McCoy to fill the utility role next year off the bench (considering he can play almost every position and can steal the odd base he's fairly valuable in that role). One of the pieces we need will likely come via trade, probably with some guys like Cooper, Sierra, McDade, etc going the other way. That would open up some room.
> 
> I really think AA wants a strong team in AAA this year, so I doubt all of them would go. understand the reasoning of the Jays, but I take issue with the fact that 'Laffey does not belong on an MLB roster' The goal of a pitcher is to limit runs, not get strikeouts, or avoid baserunners. All the other metrics - SIERA, FIP, K/9 etc are imperfect indicators of how a pitcher will perform in the future.
> 
> However, Laffey has a career 4.38 ERA with over 470 innings pitched. At some point, with over 2000 batters faced, most people start to realize there's a little more than luck going on here, unless you think that luck is repeatable and consistent. For a bargain price of $850,000, getting a guy to pitch to an ERA of 4.58 with over 100 IP really isn't all that bad of a deal.
> 
> The issue with Laffey is that he's really only good for one time through the order. First time through the order, opponents, hit him at a .546 clip. But, second time through, he starts getting hammered. All of his veteran tricks, only work once. He should probably be a long man out of the bullpen, and make the occasional 5 inning start, when required.
> 
> As tough as it has been and it has been tough, I'm still a Jays fan, there's so many times as a fan you become so frustrated you want to walk away but yeah as hard as I try to forget about them, they are still my home team, I grew up with them, I went to Jays games as a kid.
> 
> Wishing the 2013 Jays the best of luck. Go Jays Go. :clap:clap


Tough to be the Jays. The Yankees will compete every year, the Sox should compete every year, the Rays have top pitching, and the Orioles looke really good with the young group of players they have, and have more on the way with Machado and Bundy.... Gonna be a tough division for a long time.


----------



## T-Bone

WhoDey85 said:


> Reds going for the sweep! Party time in the Nati.:banana


Yup, giants are finished.


----------



## Cam1

Really liking the Reds... a lot.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

What a catch by Coco Crisp...


----------



## Ironpain

Reds effectively using only one player in the ball pen, putting in Homer Bailey who got 10 straight K's before being relieved, Bailey threw strikes just inside the plate, 2 seem fast balls, some cutters, Votto with that knee surgery struggling at the plate.

Buster Posey made a great play for the Giants throwing out Brandon Philips at 3rd, got it straight across to him and down, when he's at the plate he can accurately throw out runners, he's also most effective when it comes to blocking the plate, he's a guy that's so use to catching those fast balls down the middle, who's great at blocking the plate and taking sliders just off the plate.

I really thought with the pitching on both sides that the game would drag on, Hunter Pence even with a strained ankle manages to get a base hit putting Buster Posey on second, the Red's cost themselves with an error, letting the Giants advance Posey to home giving them the go ahead run. After that they were able to hold on.

Giants have to continue to pitch the way they have, Bruce Bochey very orthodox about his batting rotation, Giants need to keep in those big hitters, Sandoval, Posey,

Reds need to continue to keep the pitching consistent, they've done a very good job of not having to use the ball pen, Homer Bailey has been by far their go to guy, if they want to continue they should keep Homer Bailey in, they need hits, Joey Votto again hasn't been effective because of the knee surgery.





 Great Baseball song

What a throw by Posey. I like the aggressive running by Phillips, you can't assume such a perfect throw by any catcher... Sandoval did a great job blocking the base.Vogelsong looked real shaky, deliberate and nervous. He got a wrapped gift with that low strike call to retire Rolen Wid.

The Reds rushed Bailey in 2007 and '08. It hurt his confidence. No 21 year old pitcher should be rushed to the bigs, or at least very, very few. I seen him pitch a couple of times for Louisville and you could see he was going to be a good pitcher if he was given a real chance and started trusting his pitches.

How is Hunter Pence even an average baseball player? Everything about him is just weird. Stance, swing, sprinting, throwing. Even catches routine fly balls like it's his first attempt. Him and Craig COunsell should make a Hitting Instructional video, Tom Emanski style.

I think the Reds made a mistake taking Chapman out, Why not extend the game with your best pitcher, especially when Posey is leading off? they wasted Homer's start.


----------



## Ironpain




----------



## T-Bone

Chapman, red's best pitcher? Not seeing how. Best relief pitcher? Ehh..not even that.
He's difficult to hit because of the shock factor having faced the same dude for 7 innings, but the guy don't have any skill, just a fast arm. Many times, a completely wild arm too.


----------



## Ironpain

I actually think the Giants have an easier path. The A's need to get through Verlander one more time, and that's assuming they win game 4. If the Reds don't get to Zito today, they face Cain again. Tigers are honestly lucky they aren't eliminated at this point.

Take away the A's horrible errors in Games 1 and 2, and we may have just as easily seen them completing the sweep last night. I cant believe bochy is going with barry zito...dusty not putting arias on base with the pitcher up next was a more questionable move. but it wasn't wrong in the end: rolen just booted the ball.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/baseball/mlb/10/09/nationals-jac kson.ap/index.html?xid=si_mlb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_mediu m=referral&utm_campaign=br_mlb

Is he seriously saying that Chris Carpenter's previous dominance in the playoffs doesn't mean anything? Ask the Phillies and Rangers how they feel about Carpenter in the postseason, I'm sure their responses will give Zimmerman some insight.

Anyone remember the movie the Fan? With Robert De Niro and Wesley Snipes.
I like when Gil invades his ex-wife's house to bring his snot nosed kid a pizza. "Look, I got your favorite!" "Peppeoni?? .....wait, I don't like mushrooms." "WELL JUST PICK 'EM OFF!" Kind of funny because i was cutting someone's birthday cake last week & all i could find was a butcher's cleaver to cut with. and someone said, 'chill out there Gil Renard, chill.'


----------



## Ironpain

I knew in game 3 that the Giants were far from done, I can understand The Reds fans wanting a sweep, it was wishful thinking but I knew it was too early to count The Giants out, something was going to push them and it was the thread of being swept.

Is Barry Zito related to Detective Larry Zito (from Miami Vice)? pablo was promised a whole rack of ribs @ the montgomery inn if he hit a hr clearly with that last effort. zito can't choke, can't feel that emotion; 

he's stoned more (by his own accord the sf way 0 than an old testament w#$re. Tim Lincecum Wow. Timmy was filth today. Freak on. Lincecum is pitching on LSD. How else do you explain that throw? He is seeing things. 


The Blue Jays have activated RHP Jesse Litsch from the 60-day DL. He has elected free agency instead of an assignment to the Minors. Good riddance.no complaints here, Jays have also outrighted LHP Aaron Laffey, RHP Shawn Hill and RHP Bobby Korecky off the 40-man roster. The Blue Jays now have 37 players on the 40-man roster. 

This is the Payroll

C - Arencibia (~0.5)
1B - Encarnacion (8)
2B - Hechavarria (2.75)
3B - Lawrie (~0.5)
SS - Escobar (5)
LF - ???
CF - Rasmus (arb2)
RF - Bautista (14)
DH - Lind (5)

BN - Mathis (1.5)
BN - Davis (3) * team option with 0.5 buyout
BN - ???
BN - ???

SP - Morrow (8)
SP - ???
SP - ???
SP - Romero (7.5)
SP - Happ (arb2)

RP - Janssen (3.9)
RP - Santos (2.75)
RP - Delabar (~0.5
RP - Lincoln (~0.5)
RP - Loup (~0.5)
RP - Oliver (3) * team option with 0.5 buyout
RP - ???

Total: ~66.9 + (arb2 Hap) + (arb2 Rasmus) = ~75.

Holes: LF, SP, SP, 2 bench spots, 1 RP spot.

Filled but with replacement-level talent: C, DH.

Free Agents: Johnson, Lyon, Frasor, Villanueva

Lots of work to be done. IMO We need at least lineup additions that are at least league-average, and then two starters who profile at worst as #3 guys. It's going to take a payroll of 100-110 to get this team to playoff-calibre status.There's no reason not to have McCoy on the bench. 

He's an absolutely perfect fit there. It would be nice to have some moderate power from the other bench position, but someone like Yan Gomes wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. 

If someone gets injured, we can hopefully bring someone from the minors rather than extensively play the bench guys, especially now since AAA is so close  I'm really starting to like the idea of Victorino as a leadoff hitter and LF. As usual it comes down to cost though.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Raul ******* Ibanez. Come onnnnnn, man...


----------



## Cam1

Raul Ibanez, wtf?

74-0 when leading after 7... not any more. Johnson doesn't look so good in the playoffs.


----------



## anonymid

Raul Ibanez? :fall


----------



## EagerMinnow84

Dear Orioles,

Please walk Ibanez. 

Sincerely, 

Someone who went to your ballpark once a few years ago and would like you to win. And hates the Yankees.


----------



## brewpacksox

I hope the Giants win tomorrow!


----------



## Ironpain

I couldn't believe it either. RAH OOL (I think that's what the ladies sign said) IBANEZ, can't believe that Lace Curtain Stankee actually got not only a tying run but A #&#(*( Walk off home run, but I'm even more PEE'd off at the fact that the Orioles blew it, ORIOLES you were this- this- close to winning that game. 

God you could have scared them, given them reason to be doubtful but now you had to blow the DAMN GAME, great, I wish that Choker A Roid had actually batted, I'm acting like the Jays are facing them, this is calm though this is nothing if it was the Jays I would have been alot worse, than at this point the damn Jays couldn't win their way out of a paper bag. 

Are you serious? I cannot cannot believe this, now the Yankee fans are acting like he's the second coming, the savior of baseball, now watch how all the bandwagon Yankee fans will be wearing their Raul Ibanez shirts, acting like he's God's gift to @&#*ing baseball.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

A-Rod: I am Very Happy for Raul Ibanez, and I Want Him to Die


----------



## Ironpain

EagerMinnow84 said:


> A-Rod: I am Very Happy for Raul Ibanez, and I Want Him to Die


I nearly blew my pop out at the screen, it ended going up my nose :lol that was hilarious.


----------



## Yankees19

Gotta love Raul


----------



## Ironpain

Dusty Baker choked again, 2002 WS, 2003 NLCS, 2012 NLDS, Dusty Choke Jobs are epic. And in each series, his teams were within one game of winning it and then lost multiple games to blow the series. Managing is like playing poker, you can play your hand perfectly and still lose. Really, a double steal against Posey? Way to suck the momentum out of your team. 

Rolen looked like he was peeking on the catcher's set-up & posey tricked him on that last pitch. very, very crafty. SF showed some gloves in the 8th to halt Reds' comeback.where did affeldt go? did he cut himself while making hamburgers again? The game was Bustered wide open. R.I.P. 2012 Cincinnati Reds. 

The Reds were getting Latos intolerant. Sorry I found it kind of hilarious when Buster Posey was waiting with his hand open for someone to shake it and everyone else was dancing around and than Matt Cain came along and play fully punched him in the back and he turned and Matt Cain had his hand open and Buster Posey didn't shake it and than after they hugged. :lol

So a hero can be named 'Romo' he did it twice.


----------



## brewpacksox

Yay Giants!!! 

Hopefully the Nationals, Orioles, and A's also win today.


----------



## anonymid

brewpacksox said:


> Yay Giants!!!
> 
> Hopefully the Nationals, Orioles, and A's also win today.


I'm rooting for those three as well (though I was also rooting for the Reds). I'm getting so bored of seeing the Cardinals make these postseason runs following mediocre regular seasons.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

Ironpain said:


> Dusty Baker choked again, 2002 WS, *2003 NLCS*, 2012 NLDS


Ugh, don't remind me the 2003 NLCS. I was ushering at Wrigley Field during that. I was in the bleachers getting all ready to celebrate with everyone else...

Even though that has been almost 10 years ago, which I cannot believe, I still think about it. It hurts my very soul.

That was actually the only time I rooted for the Yankees in the World Series, only to have them lose to the Florida Marlins. 

Go Nationals/Orioles/A's! It is time for some new teams to be in the N/ALCS. Although I was rooting for the Reds, I still think they are better than the Giants.

The Cardinals and Yankees are my one two most hated teams in baseball.


----------



## F1X3R

It's going to be one of those playoffs where every team I want to win loses their series.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I'd really like to see these Division Series go to 7 games. Maybe have a double-header, I dunno. 5 potential playoff games after 162 regular season games just doesn't work for me.


----------



## Daylight

the cheat said:


> I'd really like to see these Division Series go to 7 games. Maybe have a double-header, I dunno. 5 potential playoff games after 162 regular season games just doesn't work for me.


I've always preached the idea of the Division Series be a 7 game series. Now since they added 2 Wild Card teams, there should be a 5 game Wild Card Series with every round after that obviously be 7 games. If they'd shorten the regular season to 154 games like it used to be back in the day, this could work.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Hey Jeter, take that bat of your shoulder...meat! Sit down...


----------



## EagerMinnow84

2 Game 5's tomorrow! 

Go Orioles/Nationals! !


----------



## anonymid

the cheat said:


> I'd really like to see these Division Series go to 7 games. Maybe have a double-header, I dunno. 5 potential playoff games after 162 regular season games just doesn't work for me.


Agreed. The LCS used to be five games way back when (before my time), and eventually they upped that to seven, so hopefully they'll do that with the Division Series eventually as well.

I've heard a lot of people say they want to see the wild-card play-in expand to best-of-three, but I'd rather keep that at one game and expand the Division Series instead.


----------



## Cam1

Nice, go O's - til the LCS then I'll hate you again.


----------



## WhoDey85

Unbelievable, Reds you broke my heart. 


I think what bothered me the most was seeing Brandon Phillips and Joey Votto with big *** smiles on their faces in the 8th inning like nothing was happening. Meanwhile I'm having a heart attack.


----------



## identitycrisis

Justin Verlander in Game 5 series clincher:
9 IP, 4H, 0R, 0ER, 1BB, 11K. 122 pitches.

Boss.


----------



## brewpacksox

I want the Tigers eliminated, but damn, what a performance by Verlander.


----------



## Ironpain

I didn't get to see the American League games because of the Steelers game on Sports net and an Olympic special on TSN, so I had to listen to it on the radio, but couldn't follow, I don't have MLB net work and I already turned off my computer so I didn't bother to even check if it was online and I probably wouldn't have been able to see it there anyways. 

I had a feeling that The Giants weren't going to freely give this game to the Reds but even so if the Reds had only just hit the ball and got it further enough they could have advanced the runners. Buster Posey was fantastic for the Giants, (definitely a personal favorite, despite not being a Giants fan) 

Lincecum after getting sprayed in the eyes and face with champagne, "Now I know what chicks feel like!"I can't post the entire link because of the language but go to deadspin.com and look up the Tim Lincecum video.Champagne for the AL/NLDS is weak, You know what? How 'bout banning all celebrations til a championship has been won? That would work for me. 

The Cards were the worst, they just won the WS last year and they were celebrating their Wild Card victory like it was their first time in the post season really lame. You know what I found funny about Buster Posey I've noticed that anytime Giants clinch a wild/division, division series/NLCS/WS... nobody ever wants to celebrate with him.... like what I pointed out Yesterday.

Betting this is Johnny B. Baker's last game. He will cite health reasons, but its just a simple fact that he will never get this team beyond this level. Thank goodness the Yankees O's series is continuing so that I can see it today, whew.


----------



## Ironpain

Nothing to see here. Edit rant. Just found out that the game will be showing on sportsnet at 5pm, (hopefully) unfortunately I'll have to wait for 11:30pm for the NL series, I thought that Rogers was blocking out the game since I saw that it was going to be on at 1:00pm but that they had soccer on instead. Okay well that's all cleared up.


----------



## brewpacksox

I can't stand the Cardinals. They're terrible. They act so entitled. :roll


----------



## Ironpain

brewpacksox said:


> I can't stand the Cardinals. They're terrible. They act so entitled. :roll


 I've never cared for The Cardinals and wouldn't mind seeing them lose but could you clarify what you mean by you think they are entitled, I thought it was stupid that they decided to have a champagne celebration after winning a Wild Card, like it was their first time in the post season.


----------



## Ironpain

Alex Rodriguez = Pathetic without steroids

holy *beep* that guy sucks! :lol

and to think the Yankees still owe him 100 Million+ 

maybe they should get wade boggs in their to get him on a healthy all chicken diet & a quicker batting stroke.


Most undeserved MVP and Cy Young winner in the last 10 years?Let's leave possible steroid use and team record out of it and just go by performance, though consider park factors. We have no idea how many MVP or Cy Young candidates were using, so there's no sense in bringing it up here. Let's pretend it just goes to the best player in the league. My picks.... 

MVP: Justin Morneau(2006) 

.321, .375, .559, 34 HR, 130 RBI, 3 SB(3 CS) 

I think this is the worst in that time frame. I was tempted to go with Ryan Howard in 2006 as Pujols(and you can make arguments for Beltran, Utley, and Soriano as well) was better, but at least he led the league in homers, RBI, and total bases. Only category Morneau led the AL in was sac flies. I know neither player played the field much, but Ortiz and Thome were probably better. As were Jeter, Dye, Mauer, Vlad, Santana, Ichiro, and A-Rod. 

Cy Young: Bartolo Colon(2005) 

First off, I just want to note the difference in performance between Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson in 2004(Clemens won with Johnson finishing a distant 2nd) 

Clemens: 18-4, 214 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.157 WHIP, 3.3 BB/9, 9.2 K/9 

Johnson: 16-14, 246 IP, 2.60 ERA, 0.900 WHIP, 1.6 BB/9, 10.6 K/9 

Even with win/loss records mattering a lot back then, I'm still shocked that so many voted for Clemens when it was abundantly clear that Johnson was much more dominant. Onto Colon, who also won because of his win/loss record.... 

Johan Santana led the league in strike outs(238) and WHIP(0.971), while finishing 2nd in ERA(2.87) and IP(232). Colon led the league in one thing......wins. Had a 3.48 ERA and a 1.159 WHIP. He even gave up homers at a slightly higher rate and had an identical BB rate. 

Who would you pick? Can go back further if you want, I just didn't feel like it. 
Beltran played a very good CF while Howard was pretty bad at 1B. Beltran stole 18 bases in 21 tries(and base-running isn't just about SB attempts). Howard stole zero and was likely a liability on the bases. Does that make up for the difference in XBH? No, but I can see an argument that he was the better overall player. Pujols was the best player in the league in 2006. 

Manny Ramirez was at the height of "Manny being Manny" despite excellent numbers and there was no way the voters were ever seriously going to consider him. Why he was voted for over Mauer and Dye, I have no clue.


----------



## anonymid

Just gotta post this one last time:










Congrats on a great season, Orioles.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

All Baltimore was missing was a Sabathia-like starting pitcher. Those kinds of guys(see: Verlander, Justin) are great, but even better in do-or-die situations. Hard to advance deep into October without at least 1.


----------



## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Just gotta post this one last time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on a great season, Orioles.


As heart breaking as this is (even though traditionally they are a division rival) which they are for you as well, we have one common thread, our fan bases hate the Yankees, congrats to the O's on a great season, on making it as far as they did, that team has nothing to be ashamed for, they worked really hard and were exciting to watch, they should hold their heads up. Have no regrets, you were the lone team from our division (outside of the Yankees) to make it here and you deserve credit for coming as far as you did.


----------



## Pharoah

great season


----------



## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Just gotta post this one last time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on a great season, Orioles.


Great Gif. Ah sorry Coach gotta go take a leak.


----------



## brewpacksox

Ironpain said:


> I've never cared for The Cardinals and wouldn't mind seeing them lose but could you clarify what you mean by you think they are entitled, I thought it was stupid that they decided to have a champagne celebration after winning a Wild Card, like it was their first time in the post season.


It was much worse when LaRussa was managing, but they talk trash, accuse other teams of stuff, act so offended at called strikes, say other teams "disrespect the game" by doing certain things, just to go on and do it themselves.


----------



## EagerMinnow84

What the heck Nationals...

what...

the...

heck. 

4 freakin runs in the top of the 9th. 4. Once up by 6, now trailing by 2. Is their closer crappy in general or just now?



I know how their fans are feeling right now. It is going to be a Yankees/Cardinals World Series, isn't it.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Ironpain said:


> I've never cared for The Cardinals and wouldn't mind seeing them lose but could you clarify what you mean by you think they are entitled, I thought it was stupid that they decided to have a champagne celebration after winning a Wild Card, like it was their first time in the post season.


Every team in MLB does that. For every round. It's stupid.

The Nationals are blowing it, big time...the Cardinals are really good at being a strike away from elimination, it seems.


----------



## Cam1

UGH these playoffs....


----------



## fonz

**** those Cardinal Clowns. If they go on to win it again,I just can't:roll


----------



## Ironpain

fonz said:


> **** those Cardinal Clowns. If they go on to win it again,I just can't:roll


God that was horrible, the Nationals were within a single strike out of winning the game and it all fell apart on them, I felt so bad for their fan base, sitting there all hopeful, within a fraction just a fraction of winning it all, I couldn't believe it, they blew a 6-0 lead, blew 1 chance, 1 little strike out to win the game and than gave up two runs  now that is a collapse, wow. I'm with you Fonz (AYE) :roll


----------



## Ironpain

EagerMinnow84 said:


> What the heck Nationals...
> 
> what...
> 
> the...
> 
> heck.
> 
> 4 freakin runs in the top of the 9th. 4. Once up by 6, now trailing by 2. Is their closer crappy in general or just now?
> 
> 
> 
> I know how their fans are feeling right now. It is going to be a Yankees/Cardinals World Series, isn't it.


Oh God I hope not,I don't want either the Yanksters or the Cards in. Please for the love of all that is good MLB do not do not let there be a Cards, Yankees world series. Argh.


----------



## Ironpain

Cam1 said:


> UGH these playoffs....


I could use a few expletives here right now, I mean COME ON MAN :mum seriously Nationals ARE YOU FRIGGIN SERIOUS YOU TOOLS. Wow just wow, there are no words to describe your epic fail, especially that Clown Bryce Harper, all that hype for nothing. (Why would you swing at that pitch)

desperate much? :um argh there were so many things that went wrong for them, and they were this- God this- close to winning it, a single measly damn strike out away from shutting down the Cards, argh and I had to see a montage of how the Cardinals got to the world series last year and TBS saying Cardinals Reborn, I can't can't cope with a Cardinals Yankees series.

:rain


----------



## identitycrisis

Let the second-guessing of shutting down Strasburg begin once again...


----------



## anonymid

identitycrisis said:


> Let the second-guessing of shutting down Strasburg begin once again...


For what it's worth:

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/nationals_era_in_post_season/

Not that that's going to matter to most people . . . we're going to be hearing about this forever, especially if the Nationals never win a World Series with Stras.


----------



## anonymid

As for the game itself, all I can say is . . .


----------



## brewpacksox

Unbelievable. :blank:blank:blank


----------



## anonymid

You have got to be kidding me.


----------



## Cam1

What the hell happened to Valverde? 

The perks of being a lefty in New York, high school distance home runs. Sad. 

Still, as if Ibanez just did that again. Watch him walk off in extra innings LOL.


----------



## anonymid

Valverde is just not very good. He's been one of the most overrated closers in baseball for a while now.


----------



## identitycrisis

*twitching spastically*

Can they just fire Valverde and make Albuquerque the closer? Al's the only Tigers relief pitcher I trust at all.

Honestly, whether they win or lose here, Valverde has to lose his job, right?


----------



## anonymid

Benoit is probably the best reliever on the Tigers, though I know he's had a major problem giving up home runs this year. But relief pitchers in general are so volatile; so few of them are good year-in and year-out. That's what makes Mariano Rivera so great.


----------



## identitycrisis

2011
Alburquerque: 43.1 IP, 1.87 ERA, 13.92 K/9
Benoit: 61.0 IP, 2.95 ERA, 9.30 K/9

2012
Alburquerque: 13.1 IP, 0.68 ERA, 12.15 K/9
Benoit: 71.0 IP, 3.68 ERA, 10.65 K/9

Smaller sample size for Alburquerque, but still. Benoit's ERA this year is pretty close to Valverde's.


----------



## anonymid

Alburquerque also walks a ton of guys, as has Valverde the last two or three years (not quite as much this year, but then his K rate has also plummeted). Benoit's control numbers are excellent over the last three years, with an excellent K rate to boot . . . I'd just trust him a lot more, even though he had problems keeping the ball in the park this year.

Of course, one solution is to not live and die with one guy as the "closer," and instead just playing the best matchups . . . but very few managers have the guts to do that.


----------



## identitycrisis

And Leyland is about as old school as it gets.


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## anonymid

Definitely. The irony, of course, is that the idea of a "closer" is really a recent thing . . . LaRussa basically invented it in the late 80s with Eck. The real "old school" way was to put your best reliever in there when it mattered most, even if it wasn't in the ninth, and even if it meant using him for more than an inning.


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## anonymid

It would be nice to see Cabrera and Fielder do something with these short fences right about now . . .


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## brewpacksox

Jeter fractured his ankle. That totally sucks.


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## Ironpain

I'd rather face the Cardinals with home field advantage than the Nationals without home field advantage. First, the Giants' strength is pitching. And AT&T Park is a pitcher's park. Second, I'm not worried about the Cardinals' lineup because Bruce Bochy (who was constantly several strategic moves ahead of Charlie Manuel in the 2010 NLCS and Ron Washington in the 2010 World Series) has a huge experience advantage over Mike Matheny. Bochy is a wizard at managing his bullpen and setting up the right pitching matchup against each hitter. 

In Game 6 of the 2010 NCLS, the Giants were up 3 games to 2, but Bochy managed like the Giants were in a do-or-die game and used his bullpen brilliantly, using Bumgarner for 2 innings and Lincecum to get an out in the 8th inning and then Wilson to get the final 5 outs. And Bochy was brilliant again in Game 4 of the NLDS against the Reds when the Giants were facing elimination and Zito couldn't get through the 3rd inning.


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## identitycrisis

Valverde: 0.2 IP, 4 R.
Rest of Tigers' staff: 20.1 IP, 0 R.

Man, I just can't seem to leave that guy alone.


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## Ironpain

Reds extend Baker for 2 years:um, Congratulations Reds fans you're on a train going around in a never ending circle, take comfort in the fact that at least your train has left the station unlike that of the Jays fans (I.E me)


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## brewpacksox

It's gonna be a Tigers and Cardinals World Series isn't it? :roll


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## Ironpain

brewpacksox said:


> It's gonna be a Tigers and Cardinals World Series isn't it? :roll[/QUOTE
> 
> Hold on a minute, it's only one game, The Giants still have a chance, same goes for the Tigers, you never know what can happen, The Giants might end up winning, maybe maybe it will be a Cards vs Tigers series but that isn't in the books yet.


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## Cam1

Rofl, the PA voice when Holliday came up to bat was the greatest.


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## brewpacksox

I know, but it only seems fitting. The Cardinals never go away, EVER, and not only is Jeter hurt, but a lot of the Yankee's lineup is not batting well at all.


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## Cam1

Lol, so Scutaro takes a dirty slide from Holliday, then hits a ball to Holliday and he bobbles it letting another run in >..> nice.


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## giantking1355

Giants making me proud. I think a giant can make a cardinal go away. Just wait until it sits on its finger and press.


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## Ironpain

giantking1355 said:


> Giants making me proud. I think a giant can make a cardinal go away. Just wait until it sits on its finger and press.


I really thought that was a dirty slide by Holliday myself, just the way he seemed to jump, I know that there are people who see that as a good offensive method of blocking the second basemen from making the pass but it looks so cheap.

What ever the case like Cam1 said it was nice to see Holliday bobble it, that was sweat revenge, Posey seems to be struggling right now, his swing is wild he doesn't seem to be connecting, I'm sure though that he'll pick it up in Wednesday's game.

I'm Excited to see what the Giants can do, they are a very entertaining and fun team to watch, I love the atmosphere and the support of the fans, I lol'd at the guy yelling at the umpire and then I lol'd at Brian Wilson tapping his fingers on the other Giant players head and the nail polish on his hands, got to love that guy very entertaining.

That was a fun game. Angel Pagan was on fire, I was happy to see Scutaro get his revenge on Holliday, with Buster struggling right now can he still get an edge over Yadier Molina for MVP?


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## brewpacksox

The postseason has no impact on the MVP. The voting is done before it even begins. So whatever Posey or Molina does or doesn't do in the postseason won't matter at all.


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## anonymid

Wow, I didn't know Max Scherzer had lost his brother to suicide this year. Jeez.


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## anonymid

Way to go Tigers! :yay

I'll be rooting for them against either NL team. And they'll get to pitch Verlander in game one. :yes


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Way to go Tigers! :yay
> 
> I'll be rooting for them against either NL team. And they'll get to pitch Verlander in game one. :yes


:boogie:boogie Thank Goodness for the Tigers, Charlie Sheen was right when you use Coke you win lol and the Tigers sure were WINNING. Congratulations Tigers, the only thing even better would have been getting out A Roid at the end instead of Gardner. Awe Stankees going to cry lol 



 haha David There was literally only one team in it, tonight! lmao, The Yankees never even showed up lol. I'm sorry but it is just heart warming when The Yankees lose, so much for 1st place in the regular season, Post season chokers through and through. Nah Nah Nah Nah Hey Hey Hey Goodbye


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## anonymid




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## Ironpain

How can A-Rod say that?!He's still saying he thinks any line up he's in is automatically a better line up. How can he say that after how awful he's been playing? Failing A Roid is Failing :haha Tigers will have 6 days off issue? The good: Rotation perfectly set up. Bad: Can't keep momentum. Stl will have 2, 3 or 5 days off if they get in. Sf will have 2 or 3 days off if they get in. Detroit's owner has one hell of a hairpiece.


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## anonymid

Did she just call Delmon Young "a class act"? :lol


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## Ironpain

anonymid said:


> Did she just call Delmon Young "a class act"? :lol


Who called him a class act? Erin Andrews? I missed it. What? they'll say all kinds of buttery things.


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## identitycrisis

identitycrisis said:


> From here on I'm going with:
> 
> ALDS
> Tigers over Athletics in four
> Yankees over Orioles in five
> 
> NLDS
> Giants over Reds in three
> Cardinals over Nationals in five
> 
> ALCS
> Tigers over Yankees in seven
> 
> NLCS
> Cardinals over Giants in five
> 
> WS
> Tigers over Cardinals in six
> 
> 2006 Revenge!












At least I hope so. Go Tigers.


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## anonymid

Ironpain said:


> Who called him a class act? Erin Andrews? I missed it. What? they'll say all kinds of buttery things.


No, it was Jackie Autry, Honorary American League President, whose sole responsibility, apparently, is to hand out the League Championship and LCS MVP trophies.


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## Ironpain

the cheat said:


> Nice job by Barry Zito last night. He pitched how he used to in Oakland, when he was one of my 5 favourite starting pitchers to watch. His off-speed stuff was great, really made his fastball more effective. I hope the Giants come back, the Cardinals are starting to bug me. And I like watching Giants home games.


The Cardinals got Barry'd last night, I said to my friend Tom who is a Giants fan on here yesterday before the game that I knew The Giants wouldn't just roll over and die that they would fight and at least push the Cardinals.

Barry was on fire last night and I loved every minute but I hope it's Buster that comes up big at home, I want to see him play like an NL MVP he won comeback player of the year. I'm with you about The Cardinals, I really want The Giants to shut them down. Great win by The Giants :clap:clap


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## brewpacksox

To Game 7 we go!!!


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## Cam1

Giants vs. Tigers, sounds good to me.


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## Ironpain

If you're following the Giants follow me on [email protected] where I talk about The Giants and Game 7. I've been posting all the inside information on The Giants Game #RallyCain. Giants sending a strong message to St Louis tonight GTFO out of our house, Posey struggling with a .138 Lets Go Giants.


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## Ironpain

GOTEEM #GO GIANTS. Congrats to the San Francisco Giants, Wow what series, Beautiful, Pitching was fantastic, Only in baseball can a Romo be a hero. Loving it. Was waving my Orange T Shirt. AN ORANGE OCTOBER Reigns. Beautiful

Giants Giants Giants. :clap:clap:clap


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## WhoDey85

Well I'm glad the same thing just about happened to the Cardinals as well. 

Misery loves company!


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## Ironpain

That wasn't rain that was the Tears of Cardinal Fans. Sorry Cards, ORANGE CRUSH is Epic. Congrats Marco Scutaro WOW.


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## brewpacksox

Yay Giants!!! 

SO beautiful seeing the Cards blow a 3-1 series lead.


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## giantking1355

Brian Wilson: "your welcome"


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## pointlesslife

I usually cheer for the underdog but I gotta cheer for Cabrera and the tigers against the giants in this World Series.


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## brewpacksox

The Giants are up 2-0!


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## brewpacksox

Congrats to the Giants on winning the World Series!


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## srschirm

Congratulations to the Giants, from a Tigers fan. You deserved it.


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## Ironpain

:boogie:boogie A GIANT LEAP for a GIANT TEAM. Way to Go Giants, fantastic win  Congrats to this team for a remarkable season, what a battle you had but you never gave up, there is no quit in the Giants. I was really excited to see them win.

:clap:clap


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## anonymid

One more time:










Dude was pretty awesome out of the pen.


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## brewpacksox

lol Timmy. :clap


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## MindOverMood

If Bautista is happy, then I'm happy

JAYS' BLOCKBUSTER DEAL SIGNIFICANT IN TORONTO MARKET


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## BeyondOsiris

Trout only got 6 1st place votes and even a 3rd place vote? What a joke.


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## Zeppelin

BeyondOsiris said:


> Trout only got 6 1st place votes and even a 3rd place vote? What a joke.


As an Angels fan. I am dissapointed that Trout didn't get MVP. It's probably has to do with Cabrera helping Detroit make the World Series. But still, I wish Trout would have got it.


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## BeyondOsiris

Yeah, the Tigers making the post-season no doubt had an impact on the voting, which is completely retarded. The Tigers had the advantages of playing in the weakest division in baseball and having the White Sox lose like 8 of the last 11 games of the season while the Angels had the disadvantages of playing in the strongest division in baseball and having Oakland win 8 of the last 9 games of the season. The Angels even finished with a better record.


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## Cam1

Cabrera deserved it more than Trout regardless of the divisions they play in. He was more valuable to his team, especially when they needed him to be. Not to mention he beat out Trout in just about all of the major statistical categories and won the triple crown. Seemed like a no brainer to me.


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## Cam1

And now the Blue Jays have signed Melky Cabrera 2/16m....

Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, and Melky Cabrera now. AL East is all ready the toughest division, now the Blue Jays should be a lot better.


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## anonymid

Trout was more deserving, in my opinion, though the result didn't surprise me at all. 22-6 in favor of Cabrera was about what I was expecting. Traditionalists still dominate the voting.

What was surprising, though, was Trout not even winning a Gold Glove when those were announced a few weeks ago. Now, the Gold Gloves have always been a joke and shouldn't be taken too seriously (the Fielding Bible awards are far more credible), but I thought Trout would win one for sure.


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## The Patriot

Melky Cabrera is coming to Toronto Say what :um Oh God and he'll probably bring the 50's Melkmen with him, Well hey we did have one Roid player here before Jose Canseco so it's not like we haven't had one juiced up player here and it will shed our young club image a bit. Two-year deal worth $16 million dollars. 11 seconds b/c of the peds: poster enhancing drugs. maxing out on a testo cycle at the moment. 

The Jays have been getting closer every year and I think their finally a playoff team next season. One of the things outside of these recent moves that they've had is a pretty good young team and the best minor league system in the league. Once more of those guys transition to the big leagues this is going to be a team that resembles those early 90s teams that played in the SkyDome (now Rogers Centre). 

Let's be honest here baseball after this past edition of the playoffs could use the Jays in the playoffs as that loud crowd would be rocking in October.:boogie:boogie Go Jays Go. I'm actually excited, well I was excited last year and look how things turned out but this year I'm actually excited for the Jays.


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## Samtrix

Michael Young has been traded to the Phillies. Boooo. I'm not sure any great player has been jerked around as much as he has.
"If there was crying in baseball, I'd be crying right now." Ron Washington


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## Zeppelin

I hate the Mariners. They do absolutely nothing every single year and expect to win and people to attend games. The Mariners are a joke in Seattle. I've heard people refer to them as a minor league team here. And then they complain about a possible NBA and NHL team relocating to a new arena next to Safeco because they fear that it would affect their attendance. Nobodys going to their games because they suck. 

I will lose even more hope for them if they don't sign Josh Hamilton. I've already lost all hope, I follow the Angels now...


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## Zeeshan

Zeppelin said:


> I hate the Mariners. They do absolutely nothing every single year and expect to win and people to attend games. The Mariners are a joke in Seattle. I've heard people refer to them as a minor league team here. And then they complain about a possible NBA and NHL team relocating to a new arena next to Safeco because they fear that it would affect their attendance. Nobodys going to their games because they suck.
> 
> I will lose even more hope for them if they don't sign Josh Hamilton. I've already lost all hope, I follow the Angels now...


Can you send the king to Toronto. Then we will surely win it all. Pleaaase


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## Cam1

Josh Hamilton to the Angels.... wtf.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/angels-to-sign-josh-hamilton.html


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## Zeppelin

Zeeshan said:


> Can you send the king to Toronto. Then we will surely win it all. Pleaaase


I'm sure the Mariners would be more than happy.


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## Samtrix

Why Hamilton, why? And what do the Angels need him for, they need pitching more than hitting?


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## Cam1

Samtrix said:


> Why Hamilton, why? And what do the Angels need him for, they need pitching more than hitting?


Why not if they have the money? Also, they have Weaver and Wilson, and they can get a decent middle of the rotation guy in return for Trumbo or Borjous.

What do you guys think is the best 3-4 in the past 10-15 years...

Ortiz/Ramirez, Cabrera/Fielder, or Pujols/Hamilton?


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## Zeeshan

Zeppelin said:


> I'm sure the Mariners would be more than happy.


If we land Dickey, we will be a ridicolous team.

Johnson
Morrow
Burleh
Romero
Dickey

Bautista
Encarnacion
Reyes
Cabrera
Lawrie
Lind
Rasmus
JPA
Izturis

Jansenn and Santos, Happ, Oliver, Delambar, Lincoln


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## BeyondOsiris

I still can't believe the Angels signed Hamilton. Easily the best 1-2 punch in the majors, and maybe the best lineup as well. Trout, Pujols, Hamilton in the top 4 of the order... then you've got Trumbo and Morales as well in the bottom half.

Bourjos is now expendable though, I wouldn't be surprised if they package him and Conger together to try and get Dickey.


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## Cam1

BeyondOsiris said:


> I still can't believe the Angels signed Hamilton. Easily the best 1-2 punch in the majors, and maybe the best lineup as well. Trout, Pujols, Hamilton in the top 4 of the order... then you've got Trumbo and Morales as well in the bottom half.
> 
> Bourjos is now expendable though, I wouldn't be surprised if they package him and Conger together to try and get Dickey.


They should go for Porcello imo, Dickey had a great year but I don't see his success translating over to the American League. I'd be kinda weary to give anything up for a 38-39 year old.

Then again, Detroit has a lot of outfield depth....

They could always sign someone like Edwin Jackson and trade Borjous for prospects.


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## BeyondOsiris

I agree, I don't want them to trade young talent for a 38 year old pitcher who has had 1 great year in his career. I would rather them sign somebody like Lohse or Jackson since we are in dire need of another good starter (thinking about Blanton and Richards at the bottom of the rotation makes me feel a little queasy, especially Blanton). But with this kind of payroll, we're definitely in "win now" mode, and if Dickey can help us get over that hump and win a championship in the next year or two, it might be worth it.

I don't really think Porcello is that great to be honest. I'm even a little weary of Lohse, his career ERA is an uninspiring 4.45 or so. But we do need pitching badly.


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## Cam1

BeyondOsiris said:


> I agree, I don't want them to trade young talent for a 38 year old pitcher who has had 1 great year in his career. I would rather them sign somebody like Lohse or Jackson since we are in dire need of another good starter (thinking about Blanton and Richards at the bottom of the rotation makes me feel a little queasy, especially Blanton).
> 
> I don't really think Porcello is that great to be honest. I'm even a little weary of Lohse, his career ERA is an uninspiring 4.45 or so. But we do need pitching badly.


Porcello is only 23 (seems like he's older, been in the league for a while now), could develop into a better pitcher. Jackson seems like a good fit for the Angels tbh, decent pitcher who seems to only sign short deals.

You guys should take Lackey back LOL.


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## BeyondOsiris

Only if they take Wells! Lol, worst contract in the history of sports. Ever.


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## BeyondOsiris

I just hope to god they don't trade Trumbo. I know Dipoto has said that they're keeping him, but you never know. Unless we get something major in return.

But now that we signed Hamilton and have the same log jam in the outfield we had last year, I really do think either Bourjos or Trumbo is going via trade for some pitching. Probably Bourjos.


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## Zeppelin

BeyondOsiris said:


> I still can't believe the Angels signed Hamilton. Easily the best 1-2 punch in the majors, and maybe the best lineup as well. Trout, Pujols, Hamilton in the top 4 of the order... then you've got Trumbo and Morales as well in the bottom half.
> 
> Bourjos is now expendable though, I wouldn't be surprised if they package him and Conger together to try and get Dickey.


It's going to be a great season for the Angels.


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## Zeeshan

Zeppelin said:


> It's going to be a great season for the Angels.


They will face the jays in the alcs


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## Zeppelin

Zeeshan said:


> They will face the jays in the alcs


I really like the new Blue Jays Uniforms. I think it's the best or one of the best in MLB. But, yeah, that would be a good matchup.


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## Samtrix

Zeeshan said:


> They will face the jays in the alcs


But they still have Scioscia.

Cam1, I just feel a little betrayed and shocked, that's all. I'm definitely not gonna miss his drama. Even his (wife's) explanation of the negotiations confused me. He wanted to test the FA market, yet the Rangers allowed him to "date" other teams. WTF? But if god wants him in LA, who am I to argue.


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## Cam1

Samtrix said:


> But they still have Scioscia.
> 
> Cam1, I just feel a little betrayed and shocked, that's all. I'm definitely not gonna miss his drama. Even his (wife's) explanation of the negotiations confused me. He wanted to test the FA market, yet the Rangers allowed him to "date" other teams. WTF? But if god wants him in LA, who am I to argue.


I literally facepalmed at her entire explanation. "should put a ring on it".... lame. Hamilton no showed for the post season last year, yet they try to shift the blame on the Rangers...


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## BeyondOsiris

It really is mostly on the Rangers, they didn't act like they were very interested in getting him back. They tried signing Greinke, tried trading for Shields, tried trading for Upton, and only _then_ after failing to do all 3 of those did they express any interest in bringing him back.


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## Samtrix

Yeah, the Rangers did wait for those deals to fall through before signing him, but he's acting way too butthurt over it. He said himself that this is a business, but he's contradicting himself by still taking things personally. 
The Rangers didn't miss the postseason solely because of Hamilton, they faded away as a team. That said, Hamilton was sooo aggravating with swinging at absolutely everything. There's no excuse for that, especially when you're expecting to ask for a huge deal in the near future.


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## BeyondOsiris

So the Angels just swapped Kendrys Morales for Jason Vargas.. that's actually a pretty good deal that helps both teams. We had a surplus of bats and needed to stabilize the rotation a little more, and the M's were desperate for a bat. It's kind of cool though that Weaver, Vargas, Wilson, and Hanson are all SoCal guys.


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## Zeppelin

BeyondOsiris said:


> So the Angels just swapped Kendrys Morales for Jason Vargas.. that's actually a pretty good deal that helps both teams. We had a surplus of bats and needed to stabilize the rotation a little more, and the M's were desperate for a bat. It's kind of cool though that Weaver, Vargas, Wilson, and Hanson are all SoCal guys.


Ya. I guess it can help the M's, but I think it helps the Anaheim( I just realized that I still call them the Anaheim Angels most of the time lol) more than Seattle. The Mariners are probably going to trade away Felix Hernandez this year or next year anyways. The M's are a joke in Seattle. Nobody goes to their games and people make fun of them.

The Angels are looking like they are going to have a great team next year


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## BeyondOsiris

Please keep him until he hits free agency, then the Angels can swoop in like they have the past couple years and sign him!


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## Zeppelin

Mariners signed Jeremy Bonderman, I wonder if he is any good since he hasn't played for a while. I wonder if they are going to send him to the Tacoma Rainiers(AAA).


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## BeyondOsiris

I thought these were both really good videos.


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## BeyondOsiris

Wow, what a terrible day.. first Earl Weaver, now Stan "The Man" Musial.. both legends, both gone on the same day. R.I.P


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## The Patriot

Can't wait for Spring Training and to see the chemistry on the field, I really hope that Ricky Romero has gotten over his slump and is ready to play some quality baseball, it was really tough watching him half way through last year, We have some hot players on our Roster. 

I'm keeping an open mind. Go Jays Go this is definitely the year they have to try not to let expectations slip because the media is going to be taking a harder look at us now than ever before. Outside of The Jays I hold a soft spot for The Mariners and am actually looking forward to any chance I get no matter how small of catching a Mariners game or two. 

A Note to those fans from Seattle, The Mariners Fanfest is this weekend. I hear it costs money, $10 per ticket to be exact. I don't know how much the one here in Toronto costs. 

I just want Wedge to put aside his love for Smoak, Smoak was the worst 1B offensively in the last 35 years. In the entire MLB. They traded Jaso but got Morse back, would have been better if Jaso and Morse were playing together what do Seattle fans think about this move?

Ibanez started his career in Seattle and he's back, So aside from My Jays and all they have I really hope Seattle can get something going and give The American League a chance, we need an AL World Series Champ, I will go through the roof with excitement if its the Jays oh yeah but if fate should not be so kind to us, than I'm hoping The Mariners will represent but keeping an open any thing can happen mind set here.


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## Zeeshan

The Patriot said:


> Can't wait for Spring Training and to see the chemistry on the field, I really hope that Ricky Romero has gotten over his slump and is ready to play some quality baseball, it was really tough watching him half way through last year, We have some hot players on our Roster.
> 
> I'm keeping an open mind. Go Jays Go this is definitely the year they have to try not to let expectations slip because the media is going to be taking a harder look at us now than ever before. Outside of The Jays I hold a soft spot for The Mariners and am actually looking forward to any chance I get no matter how small of catching a Mariners game or two.
> 
> A Note to those fans from Seattle, The Mariners Fanfest is this weekend. I hear it costs money, $10 per ticket to be exact. I don't know how much the one here in Toronto costs.
> 
> I just want Wedge to put aside his love for Smoak, Smoak was the worst 1B offensively in the last 35 years. In the entire MLB. They traded Jaso but got Morse back, would have been better if Jaso and Morse were playing together what do Seattle fans think about this move?
> 
> Ibanez started his career in Seattle and he's back, So aside from My Jays and all they have I really hope Seattle can get something going and give The American League a chance, we need an AL World Series Champ, I will go through the roof with excitement if its the Jays oh yeah but if fate should not be so kind to us, than I'm hoping The Mariners will represent but keeping an open any thing can happen mind set here.


We can't lose with a rotation like this


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## chris11757

Just over two weeks to pitchers and catchers report to spring training. This has been the best off season that I can remember for the Indians and I am very excited for the future of the team. While Cleveland may still be a year or two away from being true contenders the ground work laid this off-season has been extremely encouraging and may have saved a fan base growing tired of management showing little effort on putting a competitive team on the field.


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