# Starting to hate women



## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

I feel bad because I'm starting to hate women because of how easy they have it compared to men in the dating world. You pretty much just have to be a not-ugly woman and you will be approached by guys.
It doesn't matter if you have social anxiety, because guys will approach you, and probably do most of the talking. But when the situations are reversed, you end up becoming a 25 y/o virgin like myself and many other men.

I'm attractive, and most people that have seen me think I've gotten laid a lot (when I mention I'm a virgin to people online they're always surprised). I'm also intelligent and have had a good job worth bragging about. But due to my shyness, and social anxiety, and lack of a social life, I am a virgin.
I was talking to this girl online who was my age and was about a 6/10 lookswise, was jobless while being an ex-heroin addict, was divorced with a kid, and she mentioned she has had sex with about 60 partners. That really made me angry.
Someone like her can hookup with 60 different guys just because she's a girl, and I can't even get ONE girlfriend or get laid once just because of my social phobia!?

And I've tried online dating and its horrible if you're a male. I've only gotten a single date out of it, even though I've been doing it for nearly 2 years.
I made a half-assed fake profile as a normal looking girl, and it got about 100 messages from different guys in 2 days, which is close to about a years worth of messages a guy would get.

i don't want to be a woman hating jerk, but the longer I go being fa, and the more i see how unfair things are, the more it makes me mad.
how many women know what its like to be 25+, be attractive and intelligent, and still be foreveralone?
how many know The Feels?
TFW no gf.


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## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Women are people, in Asia sometimes you can't tell the difference between transgendered and women. It's how you come across that determines how you will be received. Accept it.

I don't mean to be harsh. I just don't like labelling.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

It's not really easy to get a relationship, at least not for all.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

The dating/mating game is heavily rigged against men. There is no winning in a rigged game. 

Sometimes hatred, or what could be better described “righteous indignation” for the privileged position women occupy in the Western relationship sphere, is one of the few compensations that the men who are unsuccessful in the dating/mating game have.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

One night stands are easy to get. The sex you get in one night stands is not very good and your self-esteem goes to crap after being rejected so many times. 

Getting a boyfriend that you find attractive and will be loyal is very, very difficult. So nothing to be jealous about.

And by the way, guys do not approach much at all if you are average or below average looking. If you are homely and shy the only way to get a boyfriend is thru online dating or bars. Outgoing people probably have it much easier though.


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## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

Never had a gf... that wasn't a pain in my rear. Personally, I can't justify having one.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

komorikun said:


> One night stands are easy to get. The sex you get in one night stands is not very good and your self-esteem goes to crap after being rejected so many times.
> 
> Getting a boyfriend that you find attractive and will be loyal is very, very difficult. So nothing to be jealous about.
> 
> And by the way, guys do not approach much at all if you are average or below average looking. * If you are homely and shy the only way to get a boyfriend is thru online dating or bars. Outgoing people probably have it much easier though.*


I tried to say that in a thread once but it was turned into guys have it worse than girls.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Jesuszilla said:


> I tried to say that in a thread once but it was turned into guys have it worse than girls.


I'd say shy and unattractive people definitely have it worse (in dating) than outgoing and attractive people. Things are also much easier if you are not picky.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

komorikun said:


> I'd say shy and unattractive people definitely have it worse (in dating) than outgoing and attractive people. Things are also much easier if you are not picky.


unattractive people will always have it worse, whether its male or female.

i think shy men have it ridiculously worse than females though. I know a few guys that would like a shy girl. they think its cute.
but how many women would actually want a shy guy?
the typical guy a woman wants is "confident and outgoing".


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

cottontree said:


> unattractive people will always have it worse, whether its male or female.
> 
> i think shy men have it ridiculously worse than females though. I know a few guys that would like a shy girl. they think its cute.
> but how many women would actually want a shy guy?
> the typical guy a woman wants is "confident and outgoing".


You just have to show interest and be friendly and talk to your date. You don't need to be outgoing.


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

cottontree said:


> I'm attractive, and most people that have seen me think I've gotten laid a lot (when I mention I'm a virgin to people
> I made a half-assed fake profile as a normal looking girl, and it got about 100 messages from different guys in 2 days, which is close to about a years worth of messages a guy would get.


I did the exact same experiment and the same happened. This has also been done by a blogger particularly well: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/ten-fake-profiles-one-okcupid-experiment-okcupid-on-trial/1405

After one month:









This is just one example out of a million of how men are traditionally and *still* supposed to be the "seducers" in the U.S. and many other Western countries. In other words, it is the male's job to approach, the male's job initiate conversation, the male's job to move the conversation along, the male's job to escalate the conversation, etc..., until ultimately persuading the female into interest. This as opposed to a more active role on the part of the female. While both genders are diverse, unpredictable, and picky about sexual partners, heterosexual females seem to be the most.

I don't blame women for being picky. It only makes sense evolutionarily. They are the impregnable class and may have some instinctual drive to be more picky in order to facilitate their evolutionary role as being impregnable. Men on the other hand have no evolutionary risk with sex, and are more free-wheeling and less picky.

Because women have an instinctual drive to be more picky it only makes sense to me for them to *at least* make an effort to carry an equal amount of the initial mating process.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

I think the reason why you see a lot of these threads here is because men are still supposed to do majority of the approaching, which obviously makes it very hard for someone with SA.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't hate women, it's just nature and there is nothing you can do about that. I actually hate myself for not being like all the other confident/charismatic guys that don't have any trouble with women. I just don't have what it takes for a girl to like me. I have zero confidence, I don't communicate, and I have no idea how to connect with anyone on a personal level.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

:roll I don't usually respond to these threads, but now seems about as good a time as any to state my personal experience on the matter. And that is, as an average-looking woman with SA, I've been ignored my entire life, and NEVER been asked out by a guy. The only reason I managed to get a boyfriend is because I had the courage to do the asking out.

Please don't assume that all girls/women have it easier, because it's simply not true.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

will22 said:


> I did the exact same experiment and the same happened. This has also been done by a blogger particularly well: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/ten-fake-profiles-one-okcupid-experiment-okcupid-on-trial/1405
> 
> After one month:
> 
> ...


This study demonstrates perfectly how badly the dating/mating game is rigged against men.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

It's not really easy to keep people either.


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

fanatic203 said:


> The only reason I managed to get a boyfriend is because I had the courage to do the asking out.


And this is a good thing.  This should not be considered abnormal, although it is in most Western countries. I've never been to Canada for that long.


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## Hamster12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Right. And guys, if a girl is really enthusiastic about you you think she's a nerd? 

What's that line from that movie about band practice/camp etc? Couldn't be arsed to look it up but case in point. 

Admit you get suspicious if a girl is enthusiastic. Foot and shooting come to mind.


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

Well, women have it worse than men to some degree in about 95% of all the aspects of life.

However, I've thought about this for a while and I have to say there's probably some truth to it. I know a girl that quite honestly is rather unattractive psychically but started taking a little more care about her appearance and immediately started receiving a lot more male attention.

But is it really something positive?, she was mostly approached by the slimy/perverted type of dude and she was very aware that the only thing they wanted was to get inside of her and nothing else. Hardly seems like every girl's dream, uh?

I think that while the phenomenon you describe is mostly true you're understanding it the wrong way. The issue is about the cultural and biological differences when it comes to sexuality in males and females; males have a biological urge to... "spread the seed" and most cultures impose some sort of drive to males to try and have as much as sex possible, even as a possible symbol of status. Making males have lower standards as long as they can get what they want.

Females on the other side have a biological predisposition to look for potential long terms partners, meaning someone that meets their requirements in every sense. Female sexuality is also repressed to some degree in many cultures meaning women are pre-dispositioned to seek... well, quality over quantity or risk being labeled as "****s" or something similar.

So I think that more than females having it "easy" the issue is that too many males are willing to sleep with just about anyone just to "get some". 

If anything, that should generate some general disdain towards such undignified male attitudes.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

will22 said:


> I did the exact same experiment and the same happened. This has also been done by a blogger particularly well: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/ten-fake-profiles-one-okcupid-experiment-okcupid-on-trial/1405
> 
> This is just one example out of a million of how men are traditionally and *still* supposed to be the "seducers" in the U.S. and many other Western countries. In other words, it is the male's job to approach, the male's job initiate conversation, the male's job to move the conversation along, the male's job to escalate the conversation, etc..., until ultimately persuading the female into interest. This as opposed to a more active role on the part of the female. While both genders are diverse, unpredictable, and picky about sexual partners, heterosexual females seem to be the most.
> 
> ...


Getting a message on a dating site doesn't mean s***. All it means is they wouldn't mind having sex with you.

And if you do go on a date, the preparation is much more time consuming for women. Getting ready takes a long time.

Males are just as picky about who they will commit to as women are.


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

komorikun said:


> Getting a message on a dating site doesn't mean s***.
> Males are just as picky about who they will commit to as women.


Don't quote my entire post if you are only going to address the part about social network dating. I make other points as well that are worth addressing.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Is this thread sexist?


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

will22 said:


> Don't quote my entire post if you are only going to address the part about social network dating. I make other points as well that are worth addressing.


I'm addressing more than that. WTF!! Never heard of someone being particular about quoting.

It's actually a two way thing persuading the other person to date them. Otherwise why would women try to get all dressed up and such for a date?


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> Is this thread sexist?


The title suggests that Cottontree is feeling a bit misogynist. But he is not sure. I explain in one of my posts that I do not blame women for being picky, and I make a proposal based on evidence for some women to change the way they think about roles in the initialization of dating. The thread so far has been absent of hatred or 4chan/tumblr type sexism imo.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

This is a stupid thread.

I can't deal with this right now. I feel like **** and don't want to read about how I have it easy in something WHEN I DON'T. STOP SELF PITYING. IT IS PATHETIC.


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## KelsKels (Oct 4, 2011)

Well, youre in the right place.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

Schierke said:


> Well, women have it worse than men to some degree in about 95% of all the aspects of life.


Ha, no they don't.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Barette said:


> This is a stupid thread.
> 
> I can't deal with this right now. I feel like **** and don't want to read about how I have it easy in something WHEN I DON'T. STOP SELF PITYING. IT IS PATHETIC.


Most of the complainers probably haven't even tried very hard. I put in a lot of effort to find all my exes. It took a long time too.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

This seems like a waste of time hating on all womenkind or a group of whole.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

I hate how I don't hate women. They're so damn pretty.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

komorikun said:


> Most of the complainers probably haven't even tried very hard. I put in a lot of effort to find all my exes. It took a long time too.


Of course they haven't. But it's easier to put the blame on someone else and just not try at anything, than it is to actually realize that getting things you want in life takes effort and mental strain and persistence. Some people just like taking the easy route out.


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

meganmila said:


> This seems like a waste of time hating on all womenkind or a group of whole.


Instead of this thread wasting away into 4chan/tumblr type "hating", commenting, and memes. How about someone picks up the conversation about the role of being a seducer, who generally has it, how one-sided is it, and what can be done to change it. This is only relevant of course if you live in a country where it is more common for the male to at least be viewed as the seducer. There are some countries where it's the *men* who complain about not getting "scored" at bars:


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

komorikun said:


> Most of the complainers probably haven't even tried very hard. I put in a lot of effort to find all my exes. It took a long time too.


Well, it's SAS. One would assume dating would be one of the biggest challenges for people with SA.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

gunner21 said:


> Well, it's SAS. One would assume dating would be one of the biggest challenges for people with SA.


I thought it would be making friends and finding a job.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

komorikun said:


> I thought it would be making friends and finding a job.


Well, that too, that's why I said "one of the" biggest challenges.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

It seems a lot of people's only goal is relationships and getting laid, bah


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

OP your best bet is to work towards getting more comfortable talking to women.

You're attractive so if a girl likes you and you respond well to her advances she will put in some work to get to know you.

I once heard someone approach life as "don't try to change the game, change the way you play".


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## will22 (Mar 28, 2011)

Putin said:


> Ha, no they don't.


I did read some study that showed that women suffer more from depression than men in the U.S.. So women probably do have it worse off than men in the U.S. *But*, this isn't about women (or men) *overall*. The talk, and the substance of cotton's post is about the *initialization* of dating.


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## coffeeandflowers (Mar 2, 2013)

Well, hating women will further lower your chances of being successful in dating them...


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## pati (Aug 15, 2012)

I have it so easy. I just come on SAS every Saturday night for kicks. Just to get some relaxation and to get away from all the boys asking me out constantly.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

meganmila said:


> It's not really easy to get a relationship, at least not for all.


AGREED! Getting sex vs. a relationship is very different. The OP is right that girls have it easier in hooking up with guys, but RELATIONSHIPS ARE DIFFERENT.

I have 2 old friends that live in my hometown and they are the same as me- 20 some years old and single. They are both pretty and they get attention from guys, but they have trouble getting into relationships because they are very shy. They mostly just hang out with each other and don't really go on dates.

OP shouldn't be bitter towards women, at least don't be bitter to the women here with SA..it's just as bad for girls..


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

missamanda said:


> I have it so easy. I just come on SAS every Saturday night for kicks. Just to get some relaxation and to get away from all the boys asking me out constantly.


Haha.


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## Yer Blues (Jul 31, 2013)

millenniumman75 said:


> Is this thread sexist?


What's wrong with sexy?


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## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

komorikun said:


> I thought it would be making friends and finding a job.


Some people don't care about those things as long as they are being validated in the romantic sense. They can lean on the other person to forget about their own issues. This is why people might say 'I have a SO but no friends'.

Maybe some people would rather have a relationship or casual sex than make long lasting friendships and work towards social skills and social confidence. I guess it is all about what your "anxiety" affects.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

fanatic203 said:


> I don't usually respond to these threads, but now seems about as good a time as any to state my personal experience on the matter. And that is, as an average-looking woman with SA, I've been ignored my entire life, and NEVER been asked out by a guy. The only reason I managed to get a boyfriend is because I had the courage to do the asking out.
> 
> Please don't assume that all girls/women have it easier, because it's simply not true.


maybe that means if you were born a guy, you probably wouldn't have had any gf by now.

also try online dating.



Schierke said:


> Well, women have it worse than men to some degree in about 95% of all the aspects of life.


do they really? (at least in the western world)
i think they used to, but nowadays women seem to have even more rights than men in western society. and they're white-knighted and treated better than they should be.



Schierke said:


> However, I've thought about this for a while and I have to say there's probably some truth to it. I know a girl that quite honestly is rather unattractive psychically but started taking a little more care about her appearance and immediately started receiving a lot more male attention.
> 
> But is it really something positive?, she was mostly approached by the slimy/perverted type of dude and she was very aware that the only thing they wanted was to get inside of her and nothing else. Hardly seems like every girl's dream, uh?


i think it can be seen as a confidence boost. "guys want me".

its like complaining about being a celebrity and having paparazzi. yes the paparazzi can be annoying, but at the same time, having the paparazzi means that you're important/popular enough to attract these types of people, so it should be a huge confidence boost. And having them is better than not having them, since if you don't have paparazzi then it means you're not popular enough as a celebrity.



Schierke said:


> So I think that more than females having it "easy" the issue is that too many males are willing to sleep with just about anyone just to "get some".
> 
> If anything, that should generate some general disdain towards such undignified male attitudes.


that is an interesting point.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

komorikun said:


> Getting a message on a dating site doesn't mean s***. All it means is they wouldn't mind having sex with you.


but seeing all those guys that want to have sex with you, should raise your self-esteem tremendously compared to a guy's profile who gets barely any messages. the guys start having even worse self-esteem than before they signed up to the dating site.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

The modern dating scene has created hordes of desperate guys willing to settle for whatever they can get, whether a relationship or a 'hit and quit' scenario.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

cottontree said:


> but seeing all those guys that want to have sex with you, should raise your self-esteem tremendously compared to a guy's profile who gets barely any messages. the guys start having even worse self-esteem than before they signed up to the dating site.


No. It doesn't. They would probably have sex with any woman that is pre-menopausal and under 200 pounds.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Putin said:


> The modern dating scene has created hordes of desperate guys willing to settle for whatever they can get, whether a relationship or a 'hit and quit' scenario.


So how did the old dating scene work?


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

*This thread is actually quite silly. Women do not have it easier at all, at least in my experience. If you are bitter towards women, then I suggest you grow up and get over it. You don't really have much of a good reason to be bitter towards them. I have had many experiences with immature "men" but I try to keep positive and not let it affect how I view other men. You don't even know any of these women that you are bitter towards, so what is the point of that? Be bitter towards terrorists, murderers, rapists. Don't be bitter towards innocent women that you don't even know. This is a bunch of b.s.

The goal of the majority of women isn't casual sex. It's to get into a RELATIONSHIP with a man that appreciates them and respects them for who they are. I was rejected by the first guy I ever liked because I was "too quiet" and he "didn't feel a connection to me".*

*Men are just as picky with relationships as women are. We don't have it easier.
*


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## reno316 (Jun 13, 2009)

This whole "I'm attractive and intelligent and I can't get laid" just reeks of self entitlement. Women or anyone else don't owe you anything.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

meganmila said:


> This seems like a waste of time hating on all womenkind or a group of whole.


yeh i don't want to do it. that's kindof why i made this thread, to try and talk myself out of it.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> So how did the old dating scene work?


Female economic empowerment due to the non physically intensive labor made possible by modern technology combined with the safety and security of the modern age increasingly renders male provisionism and protection (whether from ferocious animals or from invading gangs of barbarians) irrelevant and thus strips males of the traditional weapon they wielded in the sexual marketplace, i.e., the male's ability to be an adequate resource provider and protector; now, add-in the hypergamous nature of women and we have the disaster in which we now find ourselves.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

reno316 said:


> This whole "I'm attractive and intelligent and I can't get laid" just reeks of self entitlement. Women or anyone else don't owe you anything.


the thing is, if i was born a woman, i would've had multiple bf's by my age.
maybe even getting married by now.
i'm not saying women owe me anything, i'm saying that women have it much easier in the dating scene. and i get mad when they complain, when they can't even fathom what its like to be 25+ and be truly forever alone like many shy-men.
To never even have had 1 significant other in 25 years is super depressing. and women don't know that feel.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

reno316 said:


> This whole "I'm attractive and intelligent and I can't get laid" just reeks of self entitlement. Women or anyone else don't owe you anything.


Sex and intimacy are major human desires, perhaps borderline needs. You can't blame a guy for getting angry at not having those things.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> OP your best bet is to work towards getting more comfortable talking to women.
> 
> You're attractive so if a girl likes you and you respond well to her advances she will put in some work to get to know you.
> 
> I once heard someone approach life as "don't try to change the game, change the way you play".


i agree with this. thanks for the advice.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

Even if we keep saying women don't have it easier no one will get it. Relationships are hard for anyone.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Putin said:


> Female economic empowerment due to the non physically intensive labor made possible by modern technology combined with the safety and security of the modern age increasingly renders male provisionism and protection (whether from ferocious animals or from invading gangs of barbarians) irrelevant and thus strips males of the traditional weapon they wielded in the sexual marketplace, i.e., the male's ability to be an adequate resource provider and protector; now, add-in the hypergamous nature of women and we have the disaster in which we now find ourselves.


That didn't answer my question (although its well worded). My question is how did the old dating scene work?


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Putin said:


> Female economic empowerment due to the non physically intensive labor made possible by modern technology combined with the safety and security of the modern age increasingly renders male provisionism and protection (whether from ferocious animals or from invading gangs of barbarians) irrelevant and thus strips males of the traditional weapon they wielded in the sexual marketplace, i.e., the male's ability to be an adequate resource provider and protector; now, add-in the hypergamous nature of women and we have the disaster in which we now find ourselves.


I'd think it is a good thing that women can now choose men that they like (physically and personality wise) rather than be forced to marry some guy because she can't provide for herself. You really want to marry someone who doesn't like you and only wants your money?


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

meganmila said:


> Even if we keep saying women don't have it easier no one will get it. Relationships are hard for anyone.


It seems like since guys see that sex is easier to for women get that a relationship must be easier as well.

It makes sense in a way. If 10 guys approach you in a month, surely one of them must be relationship material? Not saying I agree, but I can see why guys think its so much easier for women.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

Putin said:


> Sex and intimacy are major human desires, perhaps borderline needs. You can't blame a guy for getting angry at not having those things.


yeh. i feel like if i have had sex and a gf, i wouldn't have social anxiety anymore.
the fact that i'm a 25 y/o virgin and never had a gf makes me depressed, and I feel inadequate and like no girl wants me or would want me.
how can i be confident in social situations with that type of self-esteem?

and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, since in order to get a gf i end up having to be confident and social.
this is where its largely different for women. they DON'T have to be confident and social to get a bf. guys don't care about that and will do most of the work.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

The women here still suffer the same anxieties.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

cottontree said:


> *yeh. i feel like if i have had sex and a gf, i wouldn't have social anxiety anymore.*
> the fact that i'm a 25 y/o virgin and never had a gf makes me depressed, and I feel inadequate and like no girl wants me or would want me.
> how can i be confident in social situations with that type of self-esteem?


Sex doesn't chance a damn thing when it comes to anxiety. I lost my virginity last week and I am still anxious, depressed and all that other stuff that goes along with this stupid disorder


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

Yeah I think people need to stop thinking sex will cure them of all anxiety.


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## reno316 (Jun 13, 2009)

cottontree said:


> the thing is, if i was born a woman, i would've had multiple bf's by my age.
> maybe even getting married by now.
> i'm not saying women owe me anything, i'm saying that women have it much easier in the dating scene. and i get mad when they complain, when they can't even fathom what its like to be 25+ and be truly forever alone like many shy-men.
> To never even have had 1 significant other in 25 years is super depressing. and women don't know that feel.


Broad generalization after broad generalization because of your own failures to get any. And even if this were true to start to hate a whole gender because due to your own personal issues is dumb. There are quite of few men on this site with social anxiety that have gotten laid. Coming from your original post, your attitude is the problem.



Putin said:


> Sex and intimacy are major human desires, perhaps borderline needs. You can't blame a guy for getting angry at not having those things.


Yeah, I can. Women are not things. Thinking because you have a great job or your intelligent women should be with you reeks of self entitlement. Even without social anxiety that kind of attitude won't get you anywhere.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

will22 said:


> The title suggests that Cottontree is feeling a bit misogynist. But he is not sure. I explain in one of my posts that I do not blame women for being picky, and I make a proposal based on evidence for some women to change the way they think about roles in the initialization of dating. The thread so far has been absent of hatred or 4chan/tumblr type sexism imo.


Women have it just as bad. I overheard an instance of it this evening at the Chinese buffet.



Yer Blues said:


> What's wrong with sexy?


That's not what I said. :stu
I am trying to determine whether this thread is actually a violation of board guidelines.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

rdrr said:


> Some people don't care about those things as long as they are being validated in the romantic sense. They can lean on the other person to forget about their own issues. This is why people might say 'I have a SO but no friends'.
> 
> Maybe some people would rather have a relationship or casual sex than make long lasting friendships and work towards social skills and social confidence. I guess it is all about what your "anxiety" affects.


yes i want what you describe in the first paragraph.
i personally don't really care that much about having friends.
i just want a GF that's also like my best friend.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

cottontree said:


> And I've tried online dating and its horrible if you're a male. I've only gotten a single date out of it, even though I've been doing it for nearly 2 years.
> I made a half-assed fake profile as a normal looking girl, and it got about 100 messages from different guys in 2 days, which is close to about a years worth of messages a guy would get.


Maybe you are trying for women out of your league. What sort of messages are you sending? Did you fill out your profile completely? Put up nice pics?


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## Yer Blues (Jul 31, 2013)

millenniumman75 said:


> That's not what I said. :stu
> I am trying to determine whether this thread is actually a violation of board guidelines.


You obviously haven't seen the movie "This Is Spinal Tap."

Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed everyone has seen it.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> Sex doesn't chance a damn thing when it comes to anxiety. I lost my virginity last week and I am still anxious, depressed and all that other stuff that goes along with this stupid disorder


maybe then your anxiety is based of something else. i can't imagine having sex not helping my anxiety unless i perform horribly and it just makes me hate myself even more. but if i have sex with a girl, and she likes it, i think that would be the biggest confidence boost i could have.

I have an online friend who has SA too, and he banged a hooker to lose his virginity. and he's a lot more confident now, and he says he's really happy he did it.
he still has some SA, but he's improving a lot and getting a social life now. he also says that he would be a lot worse off now if he never banged the hooker.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> That didn't answer my question (although its well worded). My question is how did the old dating scene work?


Women in the past couldn't afford to be as choosy as they are now.


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## Putin (May 21, 2013)

komorikun said:


> I'd think it is a good thing that women can now choose men that they like (physically and personality wise) rather than be forced to marry some guy because she can't provide for herself. You really want to marry someone who doesn't like you and only wants your money?


In theory, it should. However, the female instinct to be provided for still exists despite having more provision than they need - with or without men.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Putin said:


> Women in the past couldn't afford to be as choosy as they are now.


So women are able to choose their mates now like, you know, actual individuals. And you'd rather relationships become an exchange of property again, rather than just let men learn how to deal with their insecurities with the female gender and dating?

Makes sense.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Putin said:


> In theory, it should. However, the female instinct to be provided for still exists despite having more provision than they need - with or without men.


Ahahahaha.

Darling, I posses no such instinct. I like earning my own money and I like spending my own money. I have no desire to have somebody provide for me. That is dependence and control, because women were thought of as too inferior to maintain their own independence. You are not an authority on women and it is embarrassing for you to speak as one.


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## Cam1 (Dec 4, 2011)

meganmila said:


> The women here still suffer the same anxieties.


Yeah. I would say that males are more likely to show interest in a female with anxiety than the opposite, but that's only normal given how males tend to be more aggressive when it comes to initiating conversation with the opposite sex (for the most part). Though there are so many factors involved with relationships that cause a lot of anxiety, and are a struggle for anyone, regardless of gender. Like having to open up to another person, meeting new people from the other person life, being alone with someone or having to socialize in public, being a significant part of another persons life, the feeling of vulnerability, and the common anticipatory anxiety that everyone feels is much more severe for people with anxiety problems (etc.). Women do suffer the same anxieties in these situations as males I would imagine.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

Putin said:


> Female economic empowerment due to the non physically intensive labor made possible by modern technology combined with the safety and security of the modern age increasingly renders male provisionism and protection (whether from ferocious animals or from invading gangs of barbarians) irrelevant and thus strips males of the traditional weapon they wielded in the sexual marketplace, i.e., the male's ability to be an adequate resource provider and protector; now, add-in the hypergamous nature of women and we have the disaster in which we now find ourselves.


heh interesting.
this is true.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

cottontree said:


> this is where its largely different for women. they DON'T have to be confident and social to get a bf. guys don't care about that and will do most of the work.


This actually isn't completely valid. I mean it is easier to get a boyfriend but once you are dating, there may come problems... If you don't talk a lot and you just stand by your boyfriend while he works the freaking room, you get a lot of people thinking "Oh, that girl is so quiet, she seems shy, why is he with such a quiet girl like that, he should be with an outgoing girl". I would know because I have experienced this with my first boyfriend. His friends all had a problem with me being quiet.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

Jesuszilla said:


> It seems like since guys see that sex is easier to for women get that a relationship must be easier as well.
> 
> It makes sense in a way. If 10 guys approach you in a month, surely one of them must be relationship material? Not saying I agree, but I can see why guys think its so much easier for women.


yes.
also its not like girls don't enjoy sex as well. if brad pitt or some other hot and confident guy wants a fling, and the girl is single, then i would think most would hookup with him.


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## erinpade (Oct 2, 2013)

*Yes it's true...*

Men do have it harder than women when it comes to dating and getting laid, especially for people with SA. I consider myself to be a decent looking intelligent woman and even though I have social anxiety I have had many relationships and am now married. However, I have had the problem of not being able to say no. I hooked up with guys I didn't want to because of my fear of standing up to people. Dating is not easy for women with SA either, believe me!


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

Tinydancer20 said:


> This actually isn't completely valid. I mean it is easier to get a boyfriend but once you are dating, there may come problems... If you don't talk a lot and you just stand by your boyfriend while he works the freaking room, you get a lot of people thinking "Oh, that girl is so quiet, she seems shy, why is he with such a quiet girl like that, he should be with an outgoing girl". I would know because I have experienced this with my first boyfriend. His friends all had a problem with me being quiet.


well i see that as a different problem, the normal SA type stuff. but at least you still have a bf.
i guess i can imagine if i had a gf, and her friends were saying stuff like "oh you should be with a more outgoing guy", i would feel pretty bad.

tbh though, i'm surprised your bf's friends would actually say something like that. they're probably *******s.
i mean i can't really imagine guy friends saying "why is he with such a quiet girl like that, he should be with an outgoing girl".
i can imagine girls saying that though. and if that's the case, they're jealous of you and want your bf for themselves.


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## Tinydancer20 (Jun 17, 2013)

erinpade said:


> However, I have had the problem of not being able to say no. I hooked up with guys I didn't want to because of my fear of standing up to people. Dating is not easy for women with SA either, believe me!


I can relate to this because I have been in a few situations where the guy got aggressive. It actually just happened to me a few months ago where I was hanging out with a guy who made me kiss him. A long time ago one of my old friends who was very shy lost her virginity to a guy who borderline raped her. . yup. AND WOMEN HAVE IT EASIER? Nonsense.


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## cottontree (Jul 12, 2013)

erinpade said:


> Men do have it harder than women when it comes to dating and getting laid, especially for people with SA. I consider myself to be a decent looking intelligent woman and even though I have social anxiety I have had many relationships and am now married.


thanks for sharing that, i'm glad to hear a woman's opinion who admits its harder for men.



erinpade said:


> However, I have had the problem of not being able to say no. I hooked up with guys I didn't want to because of my fear of standing up to people. Dating is not easy for women with SA either, believe me!


that is something i never considered. the fear of saying no to people.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

cottontree said:


> maybe that means if you were born a guy, you probably wouldn't have had any gf by now.
> 
> also try online dating.


You're completely dismissing my point, from my own experience and suffering, that women have a tough time, in your determination to believe that men always have it tougher. And as a matter of fact, I did try online dating when I got particularly lonely and desperate, and I only got a few messages, to no success.



cottontree said:


> the thing is, if i was born a woman, i would've had multiple bf's by my age.
> maybe even getting married by now.


Or maybe you wouldn't have had any.



cottontree said:


> i'm not saying women owe me anything, i'm saying that women have it much easier in the dating scene. and i get mad when they complain, when they can't even fathom what its like to be 25+ and be truly forever alone like many shy-men.
> To never even have had 1 significant other in 25 years is super depressing. and women don't know that feel.


Really? You don't think there are any women 25+ who've never had a significant other? Because that's ridiculous.

To be clear, I'm not saying that there isn't a societal norm that, in general, expects men to make the first move. But I have a serious problem with you grouping all women together and saying that they have it easier.


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

Thread closed



> *Who has Social Anxiety*
> This site is not a competition - it's not about whose particular brand of SA is the worse, *who suffers more than whom*, or who has the right to call their problems Social Anxiety. The belittlement of others' suffering will not be tolerated.


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