# The real reason why SA guys have trouble with dating



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

From what I've seen on almost every dating site out there, most women want to talk and have a conversation first before being attracted enough to a guy to go out on a first date, and for guys with SA, that's a big not happening in most cases. It's amazing how this didn't dawn on me until today.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

It's actually easier to talk online first, than it is in real life.


----------



## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

arnie said:


> It's actually easier to talk online first, than it is in real life.


Exactly. And it really doesn't make talking in real life any easier either.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I can talk well online, but try to phone call or skype with me, and I turn into a pool of jelly on the floor.

It gets even worse if you go on dinner dates. I've sat with pretty girls across the table from me, and I always feel inadequate. Which makes the conversation weird.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Wrong. There are two reasons why SA men fail with women.

1. They lack initiative. They don't message/approach any woman.
2. They are low-status males, which repulses quite a bit of women.


----------



## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

WintersTale said:


> I can talk well online, but try to phone call or skype with me, and I turn into a pool of jelly on the floor.
> 
> It gets even worse if you go on dinner dates. I've sat with pretty girls across the table from me, and I always feel inadequate. Which makes the conversation weird.


Ahh alas, yes.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

TPower said:


> Wrong. There are two reasons why SA men fail with women.
> 
> 1. They lack initiative. They don't message/approach any woman.
> 2. They are low-status males, which repulses quite a bit of women.


This.

Well, half right. Your status has nothing to do with it. It's your confidence level.

Apparently no matter how many times I say it, people never listen. Work on bettering yourself and a relationship will come.


----------



## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

arnie said:


> It's actually easier to talk online first, than it is in real life.


it's easier to lie and conceal flaws online as well.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> This.
> 
> Well, half right. Your status has nothing to do with it. It's your confidence level.
> 
> Apparently no matter how many times I say it, people never listen. Work on bettering yourself and a relationship will come.


Guys with low confidence and high status will pull beautiful women.
Guys with high confidence but low status aren't getting sh!t.

Besides, having low status and being very confident makes you come off as cocky because you don't have much in your life to back it up.


----------



## Cam1 (Dec 4, 2011)

arnie said:


> It's actually easier to talk online first, than it is in real life.


Talking online by text, yes. When they want to talk on the phone or Skype, not so much. I personally think it's easier for me to talk in person than on the phone.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

TPower said:


> Guys with low confidence and high status will pull beautiful women.
> Guys with high confidence but low status aren't getting sh!t.
> 
> Besides, having low status and being very confident makes you come off as cocky because you don't have much in your life to back it up.


Your perceptions are terribly flawed.

Ambition is also a key trait, but that goes hand in hand with confidence.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

TPower said:


> Guys with low confidence and high status will pull beautiful women.
> Guys with high confidence but low status aren't getting sh!t.
> 
> Besides, having low status and being very confident makes you come off as cocky because you don't have much in your life to back it up.


I can think of a million examples of people throughout my life who barely had a pot to piss in but were confident and therefore were able to get girls. My cousin, for example - who is on all kinds of medication, has no money, and has a back injury that plagues him...has been with more girls than I can dream of. Oh yeh, and he lives at home at age 32. I've mentioned this before but this girl I know's brother - former heroin addict, lives at home, works at McDonald's, less than average looking...but somehow he is able to date. I can list exactly 999,998 more, but you get the idea.

If a guy walks into a bar, for example, and is confident, when he talks to girls it really doesn't matter what his "status" is. Girls aren't going to know every negative thing about the guy before he charms her enough for her to like him. Once that happens, it doesn't really matter what his background is. Pushing a woman's buttons the right way is the most important thing, not status. Yes, a rich guy with no confidence is going to do okay, but a poor guy with confidence will do just fine, perhaps even better.


----------



## JakeBoston1000 (Apr 8, 2008)

TPower said:


> Guys with low confidence and high status will pull beautiful women.
> Guys with high confidence but low status aren't getting sh!t.
> 
> Besides, having low status and being very confident makes you come off as cocky because you don't have much in your life to back it up.


i am(or was) living proof that this is totally 100% wrong.I had NO status but faked being confident and sure of myself(sometimes to the point of arrogance) and i did just fine.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Status is not always measured in wealth.

And if Justin Bieber was awkward around girls, they'd still find it adorable, and they'd still want to screw him.

It's about how many friends you have, how people perceive you, how people like you, how people want to be associated to you. PUAs are masters at pretending that they're "all that".

Confidence is a trivial trait, unless it's so bad that it's annoying (whining all the time).

Here's a nice status/attraction story:



> Women will say how gross it is when a guy has had a ton of sex partners. Deep down inside, it makes women want him, but women rarely admit to that.
> 
> The best example of that are college football players. At my college there was this 6' hot chick (a friend of a friend) that was wondering if the star running back had a bunch of sex partners because he was the star running back or because he was good at sex. First time she met him, she flirted with him and took him home. She said he busted after 2 pumps. He wanted to get with her again to prove he's not a 2 pump chump. She denied his request, laughed at him and told everyone about it. That guy got laid just because he already had numerous sex partners. After his senior season ended and he could no longer use the athletes' weight room, he joined a regular gym. The girl at the front desk at my gym always talked about how gross he was for sleeping around. When he approached her, they soon became gf/bf. It's interesting how status gets a guy laid so easily.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

JakeBoston1000 said:


> i am(or was) living proof that this is totally 100% wrong.I had NO status but faked being confident and sure of myself(sometimes to the point of arrogance) and i did just fine.


But are plenty of women interested in you because of it?


----------



## brohuey (Sep 30, 2012)

Sacrieur said:


> This.
> 
> Well, half right. Your status has nothing to do with it. It's your confidence level.
> 
> Apparently no matter how many times I say it, people never listen. Work on bettering yourself and a relationship will come.


Lmfao


----------



## farfegnugen (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah, the world isn't made for the strong, silent types. And that is not just dating. Try having a decent career by expecting people to notice your capabilities. Whether it is dating or anything else, it is all about selling yourself and creating an image that what you are is better than it is in reality.


----------



## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

TPower said:


> Status is not always measured in wealth.
> 
> And if Justin Bieber was awkward around girls, they'd still find it adorable, and they'd still want to screw him.
> 
> ...


Lol, the running back story happens in every highschool and college in all states in this country.


----------



## Mersault (Dec 18, 2012)

Maybe try to talk to some women without being anxious abotu dating them? Such as a friend of some friends, or someone who works where you frequently go to etc

I found out that one must be able to carry a discussion without any overtones of trying to form a relation with the other person.


----------



## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

farfegnugen said:


> Yeah, the world isn't made for the strong, silent types. And that is not just dating. Try having a decent career by expecting people to notice your capabilities. Whether it is dating or anything else, it is all about selling yourself and creating an image that what you are is better than it is in reality.


You have to have a "big mouth" to get ahead in this life. The only time being "strong and silent" applies is when you are in prison or you are using "brawn"(professional sports) to make your living even then you have to sell yourself.


----------



## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> I can talk well online, but try to phone call or skype with me, and I turn into a pool of jelly on the floor.
> 
> It gets even worse if you go on dinner dates. I've sat with pretty girls across the table from me, and I always feel inadequate. Which makes the conversation weird.


Same.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

The Justin Bieber stuff is just an example of a high-status guy without confidence. 

I know most women are obsessed with the thought that they are different/not like other girls, but really, you are not. 

Denying women's attraction to men of high social standing is like denying a man's attraction for hot bodies. 

Countless studies have been made on the subject and results were the same. Women go for men of high status. The girl in the story said the same thing you all do "He sleeps around, it's a turn-off, blablabla", but in the end, she fawked him.


----------



## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

TPower said:


> The girl in the story said the same thing you all do "He sleeps around, it's a turn-off, blablabla", but in the end, she fawked him.


That is the classic behaviour of not knowing what the hell you want in a man.


----------



## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Tanya1 said:


> Justin Bieber is an irrelevant example.


*I concur.*


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

TPower said:


> The Justin Bieber stuff is just an example of a high-status guy without confidence.
> 
> I know most women are obsessed with the thought that they are different/not like other girls, but really, you are not.
> 
> ...


Regular guys can have plenty of success in dating, so why even waste time worrying about what "high status" guys can get? So pointless.


----------



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

TPower said:


> Guys with low confidence and high status will pull beautiful women.
> Guys with high confidence but low status aren't getting sh!t.
> 
> Besides, having low status and being very confident makes you come off as cocky because you don't have much in your life to back it up.


The thing is we'll most likely never know because with high confidence comes high "status". I still think it's nothing to harp on because without the confidence you can't get the other.

Especially if you always have your low "status" in the back of your mind which will just make you even more insecure when meeting new people which can turn into a never ending spiral.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Dreday said:


> The thing is we'll most likely never know because with high confidence comes high "status". I still think it's nothing to harp on because without the confidence you can't get the other.
> 
> Especially if you always have your low "status" in the back of your mind which will just make you even more insecure when meeting new people which can turn into a never ending spiral.


I'm never insecure while meeting new people. My low-status bother other people more than they bother my own self.

Making friends is almost as hard as finding a mate.


----------



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

rymo said:


> Regular guys can have plenty of success in dating, so why even waste time worrying about what "high status" guys can get? So pointless.


Agreed. The odd thing is I never heard the "high social status" thing until I started posting here more which again leads me to say it's another thing you just can't worry about. It's just creating another insecurity.


----------



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

TPower said:


> I'm never insecure while meeting new people. My low-status bother other people more than they bother my own self.
> 
> Making friends is almost as hard as finding a mate.


Not many people that I've met ask me "Hey, how many friends do you have" because not to many people are still concerned with that outside of Grade school. The exchange usually ends because I can only give one word answers when I'm nervous and they think I'm annoyed with them and they leave. I imagine most guys with SA's exchanges go just like that based on some of the threads I've seen recently.

Plus if they're still thinking on how many friends you have and how it affects them, then why would you want them as a friend/girlfriend anyway?


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Dreday said:


> Not many people that I've meet ask me "how many friends do you have" because not to many people are still concerned with that out if Grade school. And if they're still thinking that way, then why would you want them as friends anyway?


The amount of people who rejected me for being "uncool" in the last few years is SCARY. I mean it. I'm 23 BTW.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

TPower said:


> The amount of people who rejected me for being "uncool" in the last few years is SCARY. I mean it. I'm 23 BTW.


Maybe it's because you scared them off with all of your status theories...


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

rymo said:


> Maybe it's because you scared them off with all of your status theories...


I never talk about this stuff to anyone. Not offline anyway.


----------



## O Range (Feb 11, 2013)

The real reason is because I'm unattractive though...


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

If you have to ask what your status is, you probably don't have status.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Oh FFS with this status bull already. I met one of my mom's friend's son (they live in like Greenwich or something) and I found him to be unattractive. They're rich and he goes to a great school and plans on being a lawyer or something, and after finding that out, guess what? STILL unattractive. Women aren't blinded by money, man. My cousin's live at home, and are now _all_ moving to Orlando (cause they have to live together cause they can't afford their own places), with their partners in tow. One dropped out of high school (has a gf), one has had like 10 jobs in the past 2 years (has a _gorgeous_ gf, tall thin and blonde), the other one lived in welfare housing for a while and... HAS A WIFE. It's like, christ on a cracker, status is not everything, except to women who value money above all else. And those women are the MINORITY. FFS.

This idea that you're held back by status is just an excuse for your lack of success, IMO. (I'm guessing, I don't know the rest of your posts TPower).


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

WintersTale said:


> I can talk well online, but try to phone call or skype with me, and I turn into a pool of jelly on the floor.
> 
> It gets even worse if you go on dinner dates. I've sat with pretty girls across the table from me, and I always feel inadequate. Which makes the conversation weird.


Does it count as a date, if you're already in a relationship? It feels more like just eating at restaurant, than a date.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Social status doesn't mean much. Having a career is important for most educated women, but even then you can still date and marry.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Social status doesn't mean much. Having a career is important for most educated women, but even then you can still date and marry.


Then how come all the popular guys get the girls in high school?

Before you come up with stuff like "We're talking about teenagers, blablabla", are you telling me human nature changes after your teenage years? It certainly doesn't.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Barette said:


> Oh FFS with this status bull already. I met one of my mom's friend's son (they live in like Greenwich or something) and I found him to be unattractive. They're rich and he goes to a great school and plans on being a lawyer or something, and after finding that out, guess what? STILL unattractive. Women aren't blinded by money, man. My cousin's live at home, and are now _all_ moving to Orlando (cause they have to live together cause they can't afford their own places), with their partners in tow. One dropped out of high school (has a gf), one has had like 10 jobs in the past 2 years (has a _gorgeous_ gf, tall thin and blonde), the other one lived in welfare housing for a while and... HAS A WIFE. It's like, christ on a cracker, status is not everything, except to women who value money above all else. And those women are the MINORITY. FFS.
> 
> This idea that you're held back by status is just an excuse for your lack of success, IMO. (I'm guessing, I don't know the rest of your posts TPower).


For the thousandth time, money = // = status.

Status is your position in society. You don't have to be rich to be highly perceived (thought it can help) by your peers. A drug dealer with plenty of friends/social connections will get just as much women as anyone.

Women feel attraction to men they perceive as socially dominant. The more "options" a man has, the more attractive he is. The less options he has, the more repulsive he is.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Alright man, glad to know what's in all women's minds, cause I had no idea. What an epiphany.


----------



## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

TPower said:


> For the thousandth time, money = // = status.
> 
> Status is your position in society. You don't have to be rich to be highly perceived (thought it can help) by your peers. A drug dealer with plenty of friends/social connections will get just as much women as anyone.
> 
> *Women feel attraction to men they perceive as socially dominant. The more "options" a man has, the more attractive he is. The less options he has, the more repulsive he is*.


I don't think many people get this, the more "available" you are the less attractive you are. More of a "commodity" you "seem", the more people want to be with you. Doesn't matter whose the "better man" is either.


----------



## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

theseventhkey said:


> I don't think many people get this, the more "available" you are the less attractive you are. More of a "commodity" you "seem", the more people want to be with you. Doesn't matter whose the "better man" is either.


*sigh* but this is common sense this doesn´t need to be explained in every single thread about the topci :afr

Seems some on here need some more education in "common sense". I would gladly provide it for a little pay


----------



## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

If people "got it" it wouldn't need to be repeated.


----------



## ACCV93 (Sep 6, 2012)

Hmm, I think talking has something to do with it, but you can't label every girl and say they all want talkative guys (irl) Some people just naturally like talking less than others, which is completely fine. However online, I don't think talking is really that much of an issue. At least it isn't for me. I just think it is shyness that keeps guys from letting whoever it is they're interested in know how they feel. Might be a possibility... People with SA I think have more difficulties communicating those kinds of feelings.


----------



## Nexus777 (Dec 1, 2012)

theseventhkey said:


> If people "got it" it wouldn't need to be repeated.


ok, but just leave it at that, see here are much ppl that are quite young still and dont have much life experience. I bet when they are 30 or older they will get this, too


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Whenever I was dating someone, I tended to notice more women looking at me out in public. Maybe it was because I was more confident, so I tended to make more eye contact. I don't know, but it sure felt that way to me.


----------



## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

Yeah tell me something i don't know.


----------



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

TPower said:


> Then how come all the popular guys get the girls in high school?
> 
> Before you come up with stuff like "We're talking about teenagers, blablabla", are you telling me human nature changes after your teenage years? It certainly doesn't.


Because popular guys have high confidence. And that's a necessity, not status.

I had a guy who lived a few apartments above me and he was bringing home a different woman every other week. His occupation? A goddamned cab driver. I think you're overvaluing status a bit too much.


----------



## 9mm (Feb 12, 2013)

I think guys with SA have a hard time dating (many even have absolutely no contact with girls) is because most girls go for guys with very active and exciting social lives. That's why you see young women go crazy for famous men -- fame is the pinnacle of an exciting social life. A man may have a very exciting life intellectually, spiritually, or vocationally, but that's relatively unimportant in itself. Women tend to migrate toward wherever the social action is.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

#1 I am not getting out enough
#2 There are not a lot of eligible women around (at my age!)


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

My survey showed out of 10 girls, 4 would date me, 2 wouldn't date me, and 4 would give me a chance depending on other factors (one of those nos was a yes caused by a friend poking fun at me).

I mean, that does show at least that I would get something, not nothing.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Dreday said:


> Because popular guys have high confidence. And that's a necessity, not status.
> 
> I had a guy who lived a few apartments above me and he was bringing home a different woman every other week. His occupation? A goddamned cab driver. I think you're overvaluing status a bit too much.


Do women get the hots for serial killers because they're confident too?
(Hint: No -- Because they're notorious/famous)


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

> _A 1995 Canadian study by Daniel Pérusse showed that single men with high income, education and job status had much busier sex lives than men with lower status. The high status men had sex with more different women more often than any other group of men._


.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Obviously lack of status doesn't mean you'll be celibate, but there are other personality characteristics that go into getting a woman that many shy/social phobic guys do not have. Money and confidence being two big ones.


----------



## Metal_Heart (Feb 11, 2009)

TPower said:


> The Justin Bieber stuff is just an example of a high-status guy without confidence.
> 
> I know most women are obsessed with the thought that they are different/not like other girls, but really, you are not.
> 
> ...


I think this is a classic example of why some guys have trouble dating, because they make ridiculous assumptions like this.

If you can't appreciate that there are women out there who aren't shallow, materialistic or elitist _then you don't deserve one_. Making broad generalisations about women doesn't make you any better than the arsehole with the big ego who screws everything with a pulse -.-


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Metal_Heart said:


> I think this is a classic example of why some guys have trouble dating, because they make ridiculous assumptions like this.
> 
> If you can't appreciate that there are women out there who aren't shallow, materialistic or elitist _then you don't deserve one_. Making broad generalisations about women doesn't make you any better than the arsehole with the big ego who screws everything with a pulse -.-


Of course there are women who "aren't like that" out there, but they're not necessarily easy to find. And most of them aren't single.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

srschirm said:


> Of course there are women who "aren't like that" out there, but they're not necessarily easy to find. And most of them aren't single.


In my experience more than you might think.


----------



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

TPower said:


> Do women get the hots for serial killers because they're confident too?
> (Hint: No -- Because they're notorious/famous)


Well I don't know what to say for you. You think you have it all figured out despite numorus examples given where guys without "status" have no trouble with women and the fact that you often state that you've never been in a real relationship.

With that attitude and stubbornness, that little factiod might never change for you.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Dreday said:


> Well I don't know what to say for you. You think you have it all figured out despite numorus examples given where guys without "status" have no trouble with women and the fact that you often state that you've never been in a real relationship.
> 
> With that attitude and stubbornness, that little factiod might never change for you.


You're giving anecdotes, not talking about overall trends/correlations. Sure I can tell you about the high school basketball player who made it to the NBA, but fail to mention the 5,000 high school basketball players who didn't make it.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

TPower said:


> Do women get the hots for serial killers because they're confident too?
> (Hint: No -- Because they're notorious/famous)


Charles Manson wasn't famous when he started forming his little group. He was just confident in his bull****ting ability/insanity.


----------



## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

What is the argument? Status, confidence and good looks will all improve your chances. In order I would list:

1. Good looks
2. Social Status (fame or wealth)
3. Confidence

But confidence is key because it makes you appear better looking and it makes you appear to have a higher social status than you do.

#1 and #2 are almost tied in terms of value. A wealthy average looking doctor will get more women than a good looking school teacher.


----------



## The Phantom Pain (Oct 6, 2010)

srschirm said:


> You're giving anecdotes, not talking about overall trends/correlations. Sure I can tell you about the high school basketball player who made it to the NBA, but fail to mention the 5,000 high school basketball players who didn't make it.


 The thing is regular guys get girls all the time. By his logic, every male should just forget about ever finding a wife or girlfriend if he's not rich and famous and drive a great car when non-rich and famous guys are dating successfully as we speak.

And he also mentioned Justin Biemer or something to build his argument, so how does that explain all the guys drooling over women like Scarlett Johansson? It that just because of her fame and "status" as well?

Your social status is something you can't really control, so it's just an infinite excuse. My point is if you're too nervous to give a girl decent conversation for a few minutes, you won't get a chance to date her. No matter what your "status" is. I highly doubt a rich guy with SA would have that much success dating either. (There are posters here who claim to be from wealthy families that confirm that as well).


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

srschirm said:


> Of course there are women who "aren't like that" out there, but they're not necessarily easy to find. And most of them aren't single.


 Bang on. Those who aren't fcuked up in the head are usually taken.



Dreday said:


> Well I don't know what to say for you. You think you have it all figured out despite numorus examples given where guys without "status" have no trouble with women and the fact that you often state that you've never been in a real relationship.
> 
> With that attitude and stubbornness, that little factiod might never change for you.


What the hell are you talking about? I've been in a relationship for almost a year now.



srschirm said:


> You're giving anecdotes, not talking about overall trends/correlations. Sure I can tell you about the high school basketball player who made it to the NBA, but fail to mention the 5,000 high school basketball players who didn't make it.


Great minds think alike! Just because Muggsy Bogues made the NBA at 5'3", it doesn't mean pro basketball will be filled with smurfs anytime soon.



Dreday said:


> The thing is regular guys get girls all the time. By his logic, every male should just forget about ever finding a wife or girlfriend if he's not rich and famous and drive a great car when non-rich and famous guys are dating successfully as we speak.


 Women go for men of same, or higher status than them. But it doesn't mean they can all get the richest/highest status guy in the world.



Dreday said:


> And he also mentioned Justin Biemer or something to build his argument, so how does that explain all the guys drooling over women like Scarlett Johansson? It that just because of her fame and "status" as well?)


 If Scarlett Johansson worked at Wal-Mart, men would find her just as much desirable as they do now. If Justin did? No chance in hell. Some girls might find him cute now and then, but you're daydreaming if you think he would drive women crazy.



Dreday said:


> I highly doubt a rich guy with SA would have that much success dating either. (There are posters here who claim to be from wealthy families that confirm that as well).


I agree for once. A lonely rich guy trying to "buy" female affection will most likely fail. Because status isn't all about wealth, it's also about social success. Trying to buy female attention in that case displays low-status/desperate behavior.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

According to TPower, most girls who are not ****ed up in the head are in a relationship already. Credibility plummeting.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

I used the word USUALLY, not ALWAYS.

Some are fcuked up in the head and dating too.

BTW, what I mean by "fcuked up in the head" is being a status-seeking parasite.


----------

