# I've accepted it, I will never have sex or be in a relationship



## DeeperUnderstanding

I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.

I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


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## AliceSanKitchen

Not true.

Don't accept that way of thinking.


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## Perfectionist

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am glad you are comfortable with your life and staying relatively positive.

Lots of times people find relationships when they least expect, so you never know! But accepting the single life is still a good thing, and not something to be afraid of


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## shynesshellasucks

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.
> 
> I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


who knows? anything can happen. IDK how you would feel if you get your first relationship at your 30s or 40s+ though. It might be depressing if you think about it, but maybe you would be fine with it down the road.


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## sarafinanickelbocker

Perfectionist said:


> Lots of times people find relationships when they least expect, so you never know! But accepting the single life is still a good thing, and not something to be afraid of


^true

I'm glad you have found acceptance in your life as it is now.


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## Deathinmusic

Well, in this sexually saturated modern society it's pretty hard not to know at least on some level what you are losing by missing out on sexual experiences. Personally I didn't need to have any actual sexual experience to know I wanted that experience, badly...

Of course it's not only societal either, it's also biological. It's a biological need. Unless you are the rare asexual person.

Plus, it's not only sex but human beings generally need physical intimacy and closeness. I have had very little of it in my life and I consider it a major missing part in my life.


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## estse

My friend said I'd get laid easily if I had a personality. I'll still working on discovering how to do that.


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## sarafinanickelbocker

Mercurochrome said:


> My friend said I'd get laid easily if I had a personality. I'll still working on discovering how to do that.


You have a personality! Poo on your friend!

Sorry.


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## estse

sarafinanickelbocker said:


> You have a personality! Poo on your friend!
> 
> Sorry.


Thanks, but in the real world - whatever it may be - I've accepted the fact that I'm the most boring, untalented, timid person in the my circle of life (people I've known, met, and acquainted with).


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## sarafinanickelbocker

Mercurochrome said:


> Thanks, but in the real world - whatever it may be - I've accepted the fact that I'm the most boring, untalented, timid person in the my circle of life (people I've known, met, and acquainted with).


Eh, you're probably like me. You keep your personality inward. I could have the most exciting adventure and not know what to say about it to someone's face, but I can write them one heck of a letter. But yeah, I think I understand. Please don't accept the fact that you're boring though, because you're not.

Anyway, back to regular programming. Sorry folks!


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## heroin

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I'm content with this.
> .....
> I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


Welcome to enlightenment. Or depression.

I confuse the two often.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

It's not that I think I'm ugly, but it's that I have so many strikes against me:

*1. Is 28 and lives at home with mom and grandma
2. Is 28 and has never kissed a girl, had sex, or been in a relationship
3. Is 28 and is out of work
4. Is 28 and has social anxiety, so he is unable to attend college

You get the picture.

Those are 4 pretty bad strikes against me. It wouldn't matter if I looked like Brad Pitt, women still wouldn't want to date me. 
*


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## Ape in space

Noooo.... if you give up, I'll have to as well. :|

Actually, I've had periods where I've decided the same thing - that I should just accept that it will never happen and that I should stop worrying about it. I tell myself that I am unique in never having a relationship, and that I take some sort of pride in that. Thinking this way could actually work for me and help me accept never having a relationship.

But on the other hand, I try not to let myself think this way, because I know what will happen. Once I get an idea like this (accepting a life alone), I have a tendency to hold on to that idea too tightly, and consequently I might miss real opportunities because I've convinced myself that it's never going to happen. And years from now, I don't want to look back on this time and regret that I didn't take action when I had the opportunity to do so.

So I have to keep a fine balance between accepting a life alone and keeping hope that it still might happen. The first one can help to take the pressure off so that I don't torture myself over a lack of relationships, while the second one is needed to prevent me from overlooking opportunities that might come up.


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## heroin

WintersTale said:


> *Those are 4 pretty bad strikes against me. It wouldn't matter if I looked like Brad Pitt, women still wouldn't want to date me.
> *


Grow facial hair, Move to Brooklyn, buy a camera and take weird, pointless pictures, post pictures to Flickr through your new Macbook. Describe yourself as an artist, blog about your new experiences in "authentic" Brooklyn, the meanings behind your silly photos and your new environmentally-sutainable way of living. And how all this is inspirational to your art. Oh, and don't forget to buy a fixie bike, thick black rimmed fashion spectacles and a wardrobe from American Apparel.

Your parents can finance all this. After all, what are parents for?

Profit.

Hipsters are cool and get laid.


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## path0gen

Well, look on the bright side: you'll probably read more great books, know more obscure movie trivia and master more videogames than any of us could ever hope to. And you could get yourself a really cool dog, too. I dated a fair amount of women and none have provided emotional support and compansionship as efficiently as a good, smart dog.


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## wmw87

> Noooo.... if you give up, I'll have to as well.:|


It begins... :no


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## laura024

Never lose hope. It's never too late to make improvements in your life and put yourself out there. Being pessimistic only hinders your chances.


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## foe

_It's not that I think I'm ugly, but it's that I have so many strikes against me:

1. Is 28 and lives at home with mom and grandma
2. Is 28 and has never kissed a girl, had sex, or been in a relationship
3. Is 28 and is out of work
4. Is 28 and has social anxiety, so he is unable to attend college_

Try to get #3 first and maybe you'll get #2. You'll never know, there might be a pretty lady at your workplace that might like you. 

joinmartin explained #1 already and I can confirm it because I know two married couples who lives with one of their parents, they share a house with their parents. It'll be fine as long as your mother or grandma don't try to ruin your relationship. #4 is not necessary. I mean a college degree is only useful if you have good social and networking skills.

Anyway, you can accept your life the way it is but don't give up and stop trying to improve your lifestyle because you can make it better if you do something about it. Start with #3, even if it's a sh*tty job at least it's something and you'll never know who you might become friends with at work and maybe "more than friends" (wink).


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## Kennnie

get a hooker


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## StevenGlansberg

^That should make him feel better...


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## ManOnTheMOON

Hit the gym and go to a bar or club. If you look like brad pitt im sure atleast one girl will want to hook up with you no matter how boring you are. Maybe you just need to relax your standards of girls you'd date.


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## coldsorehighlighter

All I know is that accepting that you'll never have those things is the best way to make sure you really do never have those things...and that not accepting that you'll never have those things is the first step to eventually having them.

Change your attitude, change your expectations, change your life.


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## andy1984

Well at least you're free to grow a massive beard, find weird hobbies, smell bad, not shower, be sexist, get real fat, etc. Without worrying about what girls will think you could do a lot of things.


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## Hot Chocolate

I would actually put my top priority on finding decent work before venturing into a relationship.


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## heroin

Hot Chocolate said:


> I would actually put my top priority on finding decent work before venturing into a relationship.


I agree with this.

Relationships are a lot more fun when the money is flowing.

Actually, everything is more fun when the money is flowing. So yeah, first priority, earning money.


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## stranger25

Hot Chocolate said:


> I would actually put my top priority on finding decent work before venturing into a relationship.


and how would you feel if a guy judged you on your money? you can venture into a relationship with nothing but yourself but guys aren't allowed to? :sus


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## StevenGlansberg

stranger25 said:


> and how would you feel if a guy judged you on your money? you can venture into a relationship with nothing but yourself but guys aren't allowed to? :sus


It's not a bad idea for men or women to get into their careers before trying to start a relationship.

1. You need money to buy stuff and do fun things.
2. Not many people want to date someone with no ambitions, goals, etc who is content with sitting around all day.
3. Who knows what work you'll find and where it will take you. Starting a relationship and then finding out your job is taking you to Buffalo would be a bummer.
4. Work is a great place to meet people/potential partners.

It's not about women looking for their Sugar Daddy.


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## heroin

joinmartin said:


> ....


Erm... I just meant that in my view earning money takes priority over chasing relationships.

I'm not saying you absolutely must have a certain amount of money before starting a relationship.

Just that, in the case you have no job and no girl, tackling the job situation ought to be the priority.

As for why I think it should be the priority, I'm not entirely sure, perhaps because money will take care of the more immediate needs (food, clothing, shelter) than a relationship. And for some reason, my own self-respect fluctuates with how much money I am making at any given time.


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## stranger25

joinmartin said:


> It certainly isn't implied in the quote you quoted, Stranger, that this person was saying that men in general are not allowed to venture into a relationship just being themselves. Indeed, there's nothing in the quote you quoted about anyone being judged.


True. I think it's just strange when people will judge or stereotype others but they don't want people to judge or stereotype them back. I'm turned off by those types of people. You know what I mean.


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## dragongirl

WintersTale said:


> It's not that I think I'm ugly, but it's that I have so many strikes against me:
> 
> *1. Is 28 and lives at home with mom and grandma
> 2. Is 28 and has never kissed a girl, had sex, or been in a relationship
> 3. Is 28 and is out of work
> 4. Is 28 and has social anxiety, so he is unable to attend college
> 
> You get the picture.
> 
> Those are 4 pretty bad strikes against me. It wouldn't matter if I looked like Brad Pitt, women still wouldn't want to date me.
> *


don't lose hope there is a woman out there who is just like u and u will find her someday


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## DeeperUnderstanding

dragongirl said:


> don't lose hope there is a woman out there who is just like u and u will find her someday


I hope so.

I don't think I have SA anymore, but I do have the other things I mentioned.

Perhaps I should put dating on the backburner, until I sort out my life?


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## Amocholes

Set some priorities. 

1. Become self sufficient. - this means getting a job and moving out on your own. I realize that there is a certain amount of comfort in living in a house where family members have always been. It literally, means moving out of your comfort zone. Once you do this and realize the freedoms you will have, you will not want to go back. for on thing, you can get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and not worry about putting on a pair of pants.

2.Dating. - You must go out to where people are and talk to them.


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## unicornsandglitter

"Boring" can easily be confused for mysterious - and girls love mysterious.  When you're talking to someone or in a group, and someone says something that you have nothing to reply to, just give them a quizzical or difficult-to-interpret look, and see how fast people wonder what is going on inside that incomprehensible mind of yours.


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## Genetic Garbage

I have also accepted that I will be alone till the day I die. It used to bother me but I became apathetic about it. I realised that nobody wants to deal with somebody who is 24 and

1. is a virgin 
2. never dated
3. never kissed
4. never held hands
5. never hugged a girl
6. has nothing to say
7. has no self confidence

I am just living for my studies. My daily routine consists of getting up, studying my *** off, applying for a job and going to bed.


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## nmpennea

Genetic Garbage said:


> I have also accepted that I will be alone till the day I die. It used to bother me but I became apathetic about it. I realised that nobody wants to deal with somebody who is 24 and
> 
> 1. is a virgin
> 2. never dated
> 3. never kissed
> 4. never held hands
> 5. never hugged a girl
> 6. has nothing to say
> 7. has no self confidence
> 
> I am just living for my studies. My daily routine consists of getting up, studying my *** off, applying for a job and going to bed.


If you work on the self-confidence the others will come in time. My therapist has this strategy, for every one negative thing you think name 2 positives. It has started to help me, so maybe it can help someone else.


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## odd_one_out

Both are incredibly disappointing in general, and relationships involve excruciating pain and make you much worse off than when you were single. The initial rush is temporary. People soon hurt each other and rip each other to shreds. Look at it that way.


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## Deathinmusic

odd_one_out said:


> Both are incredibly disappointing in general, and relationships involve excruciating pain and make you much worse off than when you were single. The initial rush is temporary. People hurt each other and rip each other to shreds. Look at it that way.


Not all relationships are abusive. Even if the majority are. Two people with healthy self-esteems do not abuse each other or rip each other to shreds. They have no need to. They are not suffering inside with some deep trauma or other crap.


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## odd_one_out

^ I know.


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## WalkingDisaster

heroin said:


> Grow facial hair, Move to Brooklyn, buy a camera and take weird, pointless pictures, post pictures to Flickr through your new Macbook. Describe yourself as an artist, blog about your new experiences in "authentic" Brooklyn, the meanings behind your silly photos and your new environmentally-sutainable way of living. And how all this is inspirational to your art. Oh, and don't forget to buy a fixie bike, thick black rimmed fashion spectacles and a wardrobe from American Apparel.
> 
> Your parents can finance all this. After all, what are parents for?
> 
> Profit.
> 
> Hipsters are cool and get laid.


Not the hipster thing again...

Please just let this stupid stereotype die already.


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## heroin

WalkingDisaster said:


> Not the hipster thing again...
> 
> Please just let this stupid stereotype die already.


Awww.... did I hit a nerve? :b


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## Emptyheart101

Dude..stop all the negativity..that's what's bringing you down.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

Emptyheart101 said:


> Dude..stop all the negativity..that's what's bringing you down.


I've tried to be positive. Doesn't work.


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## Fenren

Maybe it's better to learn to accept being lonely and having nobody special to love and to love you back. Not to mention having no sexual intimacy or anything. I need to learn to accept it more myself, it hurts too much carrying on like this.


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## heroin

NightFlier said:


> Maybe it's better to learn to accept being lonely and having nobody special to love and to love you back. Not to mention having no sexual intimacy or anything. I need to learn to accept it more myself, it hurts too much carrying on like this.


+1

I'm 29 and probably older than the OP as well as you. I dropped the whole pining for love thing a long time ago. Nothing good comes from it. I found that was such a huge burden off me and I immediately felt a lot better. I have a shot at a romance right now, but I don't feel any pressure to impress. I don't think I'd have been so relaxed had I prioritized the matter of finding romance.

Do it. Your mind will thank you. Of course, you can continue to hope, but don't let it depress you or impact other, more functional areas of your life.


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## WalkingDisaster

heroin said:


> Awww.... did I hit a nerve? :b


No, you just seem to have a constant hatred (perhaps bordering on obsessive) with a particular social group that you seem to enjoy frequently posting a list of stereotypes about (which you perhaps just found on the internet), perhaps because it makes you feel better than other people who have done nothing wrong to you.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

I am a hipster already. Or sort of.

Let's see, what points do I have...

*1. Wears black square frames
2. Got long hair down to shoulders
3. Has a beard
4. Is a musician/artsy person, who also takes lots of pictures with his digital camera
5. Owns a laptop, that he takes everywhere
6. Hangs out in coffeeshops for the social experience

*_I suppose Heroin will hate me now. I don't give a damn. I hate myself.

But being myself has never led to women liking me more than a friend. 
_


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## bsd3355

All I can say is what has been stated on these forums many of times: sex ain't the end all be all, and if your worried about sex, a romantic relationship is a friendship with sex, so all your missing from a friendship is sex. All you've missed out on is sex, and the only reason I can think sex is beneficial over masturbation is that you make babies. So conclusion: all your missing out on is making babies........ oh, and STDs...wherever you prefer...

The only thing your missing out on from having a relationship with the opposite sex is this: the ability to pass on your genes. That is it. If you don't care about that then it's all good. I don't really care about it personally.


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## FedorGOAT

I've had sex 3-4 times in my entire life. All with the same girl. After we separated, I pretty much came to the same conclusion. I'm so shy I'll never be able to even get to that stage again. 

Plenty of girls wanted to have sex with me in HS, and openly admitted it, but whenever I started to get friendly, they seemed to want to get distant. Like they were ashamed to even talk to me and just wanted to get straight to business. I'm just not that kind of guy most of the time. I wanted a relationship 

And I swear I did not mean to sound at all like a douche in that last paragraph. In case it came off that way.


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## Josh90

I've accepted it, females want nothing to do with me, at first there may be some attraction but then they see the real me, I'm too weird and awkward and I've nothing to say or offer women.


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## nemesis1

Josh90 said:


> I've accepted it, females want nothing to do with me, at first there may be some attraction but then they see the real me, I'm too weird and awkward and I've nothing to say or offer women.


This is exactly how i feel.


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## percyblueraincoat

Josh90 said:


> I've accepted it, females want nothing to do with me, at first there may be some attraction but then they see the real me, I'm too weird and awkward and I've nothing to say or offer women.


And I'm wondering how you know this?


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## DeeperUnderstanding

joinmartin said:


> And I'm wondering how you know this?


Probably through experience.


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## PickleNose

WintersTale said:


> It's not that I think I'm ugly, but it's that I have so many strikes against me:
> 
> *1. Is 28 and lives at home with mom and grandma
> 2. Is 28 and has never kissed a girl, had sex, or been in a relationship
> 3. Is 28 and is out of work
> 4. Is 28 and has social anxiety, so he is unable to attend college
> 
> You get the picture.
> 
> Those are 4 pretty bad strikes against me. It wouldn't matter if I looked like Brad Pitt, women still wouldn't want to date me.
> *


 Well, part of the trick may be to do the best you can to conceal those things (initially). I'm not saying you should lie necessarily. But people you just met don't need to know your living situation.

Probably the biggest deal out of all of them for the time being is employment. If you actually have ambitions in this area, you need to try and get a job ASAP. That's priority #1 for women. The guy has to have a job.

Think about it this way. If you are employed and you find some way to meet women, how is it going to come up in a casual conversation for her to ask you if you live with mom?

What you need to focus on is breaking the ice. Once you've gotten to know someone a little bit they're not as likely to be scared away by things like where (or how) you live. Because they have had many bad experiences with people in the past, people (especially women) tend to have these stuffy "rules" they lay down for themselves like "I'm not even going to give men with these flaws a chance". And then they look for those flaws and avoid them. You need to get them to look at you as a person rather than a list of pros and cons.


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## percyblueraincoat

WintersTale said:


> Probably through experience.


Experiences have many meanings.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

joinmartin said:


> Experiences have many meanings.


Like what?

Obviously, a lack of experience also has one meaning. A meaning that means that I'm pathetic enough that no girl wants to date me...therefore, no girl wants to date me.

It's a catch-22.


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## coeur_brise

You should try meet-ups or even church socials, find a person who has the same values as you do and that you'd be interested in getting to know.


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## percyblueraincoat

WintersTale said:


> Like what?
> 
> Obviously, a lack of experience also has one meaning. A meaning that means that I'm pathetic enough that no girl wants to date me...therefore, no girl wants to date me.
> 
> It's a catch-22.


Obviously? Why?

You're pathetic because you lack some experiences in terms of relationships? And then you add onto that some assumption that no girl wants to date you?

Your lack of relationship experience could mean loads of things but you choose to make it mean that you are somehow pathetic?

If you want girls to like you, maybe time to like yourself first.

Break the catch 22 loop. Nobody has the right to call you pathetic so why call yourself that? If I called you pathetic you'd get cross, angry and upset right? So why are you calling yourself that?

Those girls would be lucky to have a guy like you.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

You will get laid. But you have to open your mind a bit and accept a "skeezy woman." That's not a bad thing, but don't expect an intelligent conversation.

Do something you enjoy. For example, a really cool concert with a band you really like. You just need a reason to feel like you belong there. That you purpose for being there is true. 

The next thing to do is if you see a cute woman, sit down near her. Even if you don't initiate the conversation, she might. And if she glances at you, say hi. 

What you do from there is up to you, but don't be afraid. Just go with it. All you need to do is put yourself in the position to get laid and the chances increase. If you stand from a far distance, your chances of getting laid is zero. If you sit next to a girl, it's 5%, but that's better than zero.


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## Jesushaswifeforme

Jesus has someone for me. amen


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## nemesis1

You could have sex today if your willing to go to an escort...


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## DeeperUnderstanding

nemesis1 said:


> You could have sex today if your willing to go to an escort...


Except I want a relationship involving sex, not sex that doesn't involve a relationship.


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## nemesis1

WintersTale said:


> Except I want a relationship involving sex, not sex that doesn't involve a relationship.


Gotta crawl before you can walk.


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## Ivan AG

nemesis1 said:


> Gotta crawl before you can walk.


STDs are not my definition of "learning how to crawl" in the dating world.

No thanks.

I'll do it the hard way.


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## nemesis1

Ivan AG said:


> STDs are not my definition of "learning how to crawl" in the dating world.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> I'll do it the hard way.


Why would you get an std? Ever heard of condoms?

And you could potentially catch an std from any sexual partner, escort or not.

Sure, it would be great if we could be having/had sex in loving relationships, but generally guys like us dont have the luxury of sitting around and waiting for some cute girl who has a thing for inexperienced guys to walk into our lives and make all the moves.......its simply not happening. You gotta take matters into your own hands. You can finally take control over a problem which you feel you have no control over.


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## Ivan AG

Condoms are not a guarantee and the risk is increased when you're exposed to loose women like escorts and prostitutes.

No thanks.


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## Ape in space

nemesis1 said:


> Gotta crawl before you can walk.


I consider holding a conversation with a girl to be crawling. Sex is more like running to the top of a mountain.


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## percyblueraincoat

> Sure, it would be great if we could be having/had sex in loving relationships, but generally guys like us dont have the luxury of sitting around and waiting for some cute girl who has a thing for inexperienced guys to walk into our lives and make all the moves.......its simply not happening. You gotta take matters into your own hands. You can finally take control over a problem which you feel you have no control over


Guys like us? It's simply not happening?

Take matters into your own hands and take control over a problem? Yes, I agree and applaud such a strategy. But, if you are going to do that, why does it need to be with some escort girl? Why not use that energy to make a change and go out and meet someone and get into a relationship or random casual sex encounter? Girls are not going round with a : "oh, he's not slept with loads of women....I'm not going to go near him" checklist. Not in general anyway.

When I first slept with a girl, was I inexperienced? Yes, I was. I had no idea. Did she care? No, she did not.

Stop limiting yourself. Your inexperience with women does not define who you are. If you never trust yourself to just go for it and let life tell you what's going to happen instead of anticipating and or worrying about what might happen then you won't break the loop.


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## stranger25

Tell us what to do then Joinmartin. I'll admit it I myself I don't have all the answers but I'm always looking. This is a "silent" phenomenon these days and I just keep on talking to more and more guys who are dealing with this. It gets worse and worse every year. It's crazy. But I know it's not an isolated case. I don't know how to get out of this dateless male curse but I wish I did. Tell us how to get out of it.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

nemesis1 said:


> Why would you get an std? Ever heard of condoms?
> 
> And you could potentially catch an std from any sexual partner, escort or not.
> 
> Sure, it would be great if we could be having/had sex in loving relationships, but generally guys like us dont have the luxury of sitting around and waiting for some cute girl who has a thing for inexperienced guys to walk into our lives and make all the moves.......its simply not happening. You gotta take matters into your own hands. You can finally take control over a problem which you feel you have no control over.


Just happened to me this past weekend dude. For my age I'm pretty inexperienced but I got lucky. The reason I was I put myself in the position for luck to happen. That's exactly what every one of these dudes should do. Before they can think about approaching a girl, they should work on approaching comfortably and who knows, things might happen like it did to me.

Otherwise I pretty much agree.


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## luffy

at least wait til you're 40 before you accept something like that.


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## percyblueraincoat

stranger25 said:


> Tell us what to do then Joinmartin. I'll admit it I myself I don't have all the answers but I'm always looking. This is a "silent" phenomenon these days and I just keep on talking to more and more guys who are dealing with this. It gets worse and worse every year. It's crazy. But I know it's not an isolated case. I don't know how to get out of this dateless male curse but I wish I did. Tell us how to get out of it.


It's a question of "us". It has to go down to the individual level. It's not about big, sweeping things like: "all women don't like me" or whatever. That kind of mindset just kills things stone dead. It's about you and what happens when you meet women. That goes for the other guys experiencing this too. Individual level of what happens with them when they meet and interact with women.

So, what is it that happens when you meet a woman? What happens? How do you feel and how do you think when that happens?


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## Some Russian Guy

why is it so important I don't get it


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## heroin

Some Russian Guy said:


> why is it so important I don't get it


What do you live for?


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## stylicho

> What do you live for?


Life in the country with animals prancing around, a clear blue stream running through, orchards with the tastiest fruit, a smiling beautiful creature singing to me in the distance, a ----.
Whoops, is that too gay :lol. Change that to a dark and dreary night, hoofbeats thundering on the beaten earth, a torched earth, swords clashing, women and children screaming, a---. Something in between . Actually, first one doesn't sound too bad afterall.


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## millenniumman75

^I am trying to picture you saying that with a Louisiana dialect. :lol


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## stylicho

> Why would you get an std? Ever heard of condoms?


Ever heard of oral herpes?


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## stylicho

> ^I am trying to picture you saying that with a Louisiana dialect.


There are two kinds of Louisiana dialect, ******* and Creole . Picture both :lol


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## stranger25

joinmartin said:


> It's a question of "us". It has to go down to the individual level. It's not about big, sweeping things like: "all women don't like me" or whatever. That kind of mindset just kills things stone dead. It's about you and what happens when you meet women. That goes for the other guys experiencing this too. Individual level of what happens with them when they meet and interact with women.
> 
> So, what is it that happens when you meet a woman? What happens? How do you feel and how do you think when that happens?


I'm not going to sit here and tell these guys that they have nothing to worry about. I did that to myself a few times in the past but now I'm mature and realistic about it.

Obviously, if girls never ever wanted to be friends, you've recieved no shred of interest from them, romantic or platonic, and you have no other history or experience with them then you have enough proof to say they don't find you attractive and you are doomed. Maybe when guys say they are doomed it's just a way for them to cope with it.

Can't have some desperate short guy with a deformed face running around telling everybody he's gonna be a don juan because the PUA guys told him so. That's where you're going to get another George Sodini type scenario. Where he's exhausted every option and he finally loses it. Like Steve Hoca said.


----------



## percyblueraincoat

stranger25 said:


> I'm not going to sit here and tell these guys that they have nothing to worry about. I did that to myself a few times in the past but now I'm mature and realistic about it.
> 
> Obviously, if girls never ever wanted to be friends, you've recieved no shred of interest from them, romantic or platonic, and you have no other history or experience with them then you have enough proof to say they don't find you attractive and you are doomed. Maybe when guys say they are doomed it's just a way for them to cope with it.


You've basically got two options:

A) Do yourself a massive disservice by acting as if you're doomed. You're not doomed and you simply do not have anywhere near enough proof to say that all women across the globe would automatically find you unattractive. But nobody can force change on anyone and you're entitled to your beliefs. If self imposed isolation is what you want, go for that.

B) You embrace change and show the courage you have to do that. Not changing into a different person. Changing what you do.

No man is doomed. But whether change happens or not is up to the individual person concerned.


----------



## percyblueraincoat

> Can't have some desperate short guy with a deformed face running around telling everybody he's gonna be a don juan because the PUA guys told him so. That's where you're going to get another George Sodini type scenario. Where he's exhausted every option and he finally loses it. Like Steve Hoca said.


I happen to know a man with a genetic condition that does pretty darn bad things to his face. And he has a lovely girlfriend who could well do modelling work.

Forgive me, but Hoca is once again talking utter crap. Do you seriously think all guys who get with women are perfect male models with nothing wrong with them and all have amazing perfect lives and it looks like some kind of Disney Film? Nope.

Men of all shapes, sizes and looks get dates. That's not some PUA stuff. That's fact.

Short guys get girls too. That's another fact.

But if you want to be the cheerleader for every limitation you think you have, I can't stop you doing that and neither can anyone else. It's very easy to act as if you have to apologise for who you are. The hard part is standing up for yourself.


----------



## stranger25

I'm one of the tall types but I found out even if you are average or even above average in the face......average don't cut it.


----------



## ForeverStallone

stranger25 said:


> I'm one of the tall types but I found out even if you are average or even above average in the face......average don't cut it.


Hey you've said before that no woman has ever showed interest in you in any way and that when they look at you they give you certain looks. You also said you're above average looking. I'm curious what's your demeanor like? Do you stare at the ground when you walk? Do you make eye contact with cashiers or give them a smile? Or do you look gloomy or angry or arrogant maybe?


----------



## stranger25

Do I stare at the ground? Not really. Do I smile and make eye contact? Plenty of times. I think the problem is that people today are socially disconnected. Nobody talks to anyone in public anymore unless it's for a good reason.


----------



## percyblueraincoat

stranger25 said:


> I'm one of the tall types but I found out even if you are average or even above average in the face......average don't cut it.


More assumptions about yourself and about how others might view you. Stop comparing yourself to other people and assume you're being judged by others. Like I said, guy with genetic condition that's really messed with his face has a normal, attractive girlfriend who he is wanting to start a family with (keeping in mind the risks of the condition spreading and consulting with doctors in the process). But, if you want to keep giving power to what you think limits you, none of us can stop you doing that.


----------



## Genetic Garbage

stranger25 said:


> I'm not going to sit here and tell these guys that they have nothing to worry about. I did that to myself a few times in the past but now I'm mature and realistic about it.
> 
> Obviously, if girls never ever wanted to be friends, you've recieved no shred of interest from them, romantic or platonic, and you have no other history or experience with them then you have enough proof to say they don't find you attractive and you are doomed. Maybe when guys say they are doomed it's just a way for them to cope with it.
> 
> Can't have some desperate short guy with a deformed face running around telling everybody he's gonna be a don juan because the PUA guys told him so. That's where you're going to get another George Sodini type scenario. Where he's exhausted every option and he finally loses it. Like Steve Hoca said.





stranger25 said:


> I think the problem is that people today are socially disconnected. Nobody talks to anyone in public anymore unless it's for a good reason.


I agree 100 % with both of your statements.


----------



## stranger25

I haven't looked into the social disconnectedness thing too much yet but I've seen it with my own eyes to know it's how people in general are today. Women don't talk to men, because they get overly paranoid for nothing. Men don't talk to women, because they are physically unattractive and insecure. Nobody has casual conversations unless it's for a good reason. It's a real rarity. Maybe it depends on areas but I think it exists everywhere to some degree. Remember when you could walk down the street and say hi to some little kid with his parents? Nowadays people will call you a pervert or something.

I think George Sodini was the extreme case of being hardcore dateless, and perpetually (eternity, lifelong) alone. Just like that guy Jerry who sent Steve Hoca a letter. One thing nobody ever remembers is that his problems were more then just women, he had social problems with people in general.

I could go on for days about all kinds of different "hidden" issues. Male population reduction. What better way to do this then for the strings of society to "prevent" certain men from getting a woman, reducing their chances to have children, and leaving them and their genes to die off forever, never to be seen again. The triple suicide rates in men compared to women worldwide. 20% of Americans have no friends outside of their family (maybe I'm one).

When you hear about "forced" loneliness, I think it could really means "forced" as in....the person has no choice or options except solitude/the loneliness. So they feel like it's forced upon them. Like Winston Wu endured for 20 years.



Winston Wu said:


> *A Taboo Social Truth and Holy Grail not found in any Public Library*
> 
> When I first went to Russia in 2002, I was mesmerized at how approachable, open and relaxed people were, especially the young women. It was surreal and unimaginable. Coming from America and Taiwan, I was used to only old people and little children being open and relaxed, not young attractive women, which in my cultures are the LEAST open and approachable. In Russia, I kept pinching myself to see if I was dreaming, but I wasn't. It was real! I had discovered the "holy grail" of dating and social life.
> 
> But the problem was, this "holy grail" was a huge social taboo, so taboo in fact that you will not find it mentioned in any book or publication. You see, in any culture, you are NOT allowed to say that people are anti-social, uptight and closed. You are only allowed to either say that everyone/most people are friendly and wonderful, or blame yourself for your own self-deficiencies. But you are NEVER allowed to blame the social culture or environment, no matter how justified it may be to do so.
> 
> In fact, if you go to the largest public library, you will not find any book or publication stating that people in any particular culture are uptight, anti-social, closed and unapproachable, or that some cultures are more open and sociable than others. Neither will you find any book in your library that mentions the reality of this "holy grail", for to do so would violate the social taboo mentioned above. The closest thing to it would be sociology/cultural studies textbooks which mention that some cultures are more individualistic while others are more collectivist.
> 
> The actual and obvious truth is that in Anglo and Oriental workaholic cultures (e.g. USA, Canada, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea), people live a highly materialistic and segregated lifestyle devoid of human connection. The purpose of their life is business and productivity, and life iself is reduced to a business resource. The society and media evaluates its citizens in terms of economic functions (e.g. workers, tax payers, consumers, etc.) rather than as human beings with spirit, feelings and passion. As a result, people become machines, stiff and repressed, devoid of romance and passion.
> 
> It's bad enough that we are all slaves programmed to "think" that we are free, but what's sickening is that no matter how obvious the truth is about anti-sociality in these cultures, you are NOT ALLOWED to mention or talk about it. Thus truth itself has become a taboo. That's sickening.
> 
> Whatever the case, it does seem that the more materialistic people's lifestyles become, the less social they are and the less human connection there is. With wealth and "economic growth" comes loneliness and social disconnectedness. But of course, the media NEVER mentions this, cause it's a total taboo. Instead, the media always sees economic growth as a win-win situation for everybody without trade-offs. It's as if you are supposed to deny and suppress your need for human connection or companionship. That's really sick.
> 
> Even in First World European nations there is still a lot of romantic passion and soul in their culture and people. But somehow, this seems to be lacking in the USA and the Oriental cultures of workaholic East Asia, which is totally robotic and stiff. The regimented socializing that does take place in such workaholic cultures is usually fake, artificial, uptight, pretentious and a cliche rather than a truly flowing interactive experience.
> 
> The men in these countries are in the worst position, because the young women in workaholic societies tend to be the LEAST approachable and open among the whole demographic, and the MOST uptight, closed and anti-social. They can afford to be that way because with money, they don't need men, and without passion, they have no need for connection either. Thus they can become masculine and harbor a disdain for men (as they do in the USA).
> 
> But in lesser developed countries that are economically repressed, the women have fewer choices, so they have to be sweeter and more feminine and develop better inner and outer qualities. This makes such cultures a "dating paradise" for men from First World cultures, who are treated far better, more appreciated, and have far more choices among attractive females as well.
> 
> A growing number of men in First World nations are beginning to realize this and capitalize on this "big secret" and "holy grail", but the media still considers it a taboo subject and would never cast it in a positive light. That's what makes the media sick. They want us to be dumbed down repressed robotic work slaves who live in fear and obey whatever they are told on TV, rather than become enlightened with the truth. Anything outside of the media's narrow box is ridiculed or marginalized by them with trashy non-intellectual soundbytes of a herd mentality.
> 
> But of course, even talking about all this is a total taboo. Most people would rather hear deceit rather than the truth, according to many great thinkers, writers and intellectuals (e.g. Mark Twain, George Bernard Shaw, Eric Fromm, Frederich Nietzsche, HL Mencken, RD Lang, Marcus Aurelius, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Ayn Rand, Oscar Wilde, etc.)


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

^I'm sorry, I'm still not buying it!

People are human beings, therefore with flaws. It's true that society creates monsters, but not everyone follows the same society. Even within America.


----------



## WalkingDisaster

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> You will get laid. *But you have to open your mind a bit and accept a "skeezy woman." That's not a bad thing, but don't expect an intelligent conversation.*
> 
> Do something you enjoy. For example, a really cool concert with a band you really like. You just need a reason to feel like you belong there. That you purpose for being there is true.
> 
> The next thing to do is if you see a cute woman, sit down near her. Even if you don't initiate the conversation, she might. And if she glances at you, say hi.
> 
> What you do from there is up to you, but don't be afraid. Just go with it. All you need to do is put yourself in the position to get laid and the chances increase. If you stand from a far distance, your chances of getting laid is zero. If you sit next to a girl, it's 5%, but that's better than zero.


So you're saying that all women are either A: likely to have sex with you but unintelligent
OR
B: Intelligent but unlikely to have sex with you.

I don't think you can really generalise an entire gender to that extent.


----------



## Genetic Garbage

stranger25 said:


> I haven't looked into the social disconnectedness thing too much yet but I've seen it with my own eyes to know it's how people in general are today. Women don't talk to men, because they get overly paranoid for nothing. Men don't talk to women, because they are physically unattractive and insecure. Nobody has casual conversations unless it's for a good reason. It's a real rarity. Maybe it depends on areas but I think it exists everywhere to some degree. Remember when you could walk down the street and say hi to some little kid with his parents? Nowadays people will call you a pervert or something.
> 
> I think George Sodini was the extreme case of being hardcore dateless, and perpetually (eternity, lifelong) alone. Just like that guy Jerry who sent Steve Hoca a letter. One thing nobody ever remembers is that his problems were more then just women, he had social problems with people in general.
> 
> I could go on for days about all kinds of different "hidden" issues. Male population reduction. What better way to do this then for the strings of society to "prevent" certain men from getting a woman, reducing their chances to have children, and leaving them and their genes to die off forever, never to be seen again. The triple suicide rates in men compared to women worldwide. 20% of Americans have no friends outside of their family (maybe I'm one).
> 
> When you hear about "forced" loneliness, I think it could really means "forced" as in....the person has no choice or options except solitude/the loneliness. So they feel like it's forced upon them. Like Winston Wu endured for 20 years.


I have seen the social disconnectedness as well. Where I live most people don't even know their neighbours although they are living next to each other for years. If you try to talk to a stranger for whatever reason most will automatically assume you want to scrounge cigarettes or money. 
I shouldn't complain though since I am the same. I get very uncomfortable and self conscious if someone tries to talk to me on the street.

Very good article. I completely agree with it. I just want to say something about the situation in Europe. From my experience, people in southern european countries (Italy, Spain, southern France) and Southeast Asia as well, are much more friendly, open minded and approachable. It's much easier to socialise there. Where I live, people are much more reserved and act more distant. I don't blame them though, since I am the same. It just depends on the country's culture.


----------



## Mona1234

I have respect for a man who is 28 and hasn't had any sex, I would rather be with a guy who has self respect than one who is used up from sleeping around with alot of girls.


----------



## Quietguy90

Dont give up man, im in the same boat at 21 just gotta push yourself like any other phobia. Just gotta pound the pavement till you start to see changes.


----------



## ImWeird

That's a sad thing to accept.


----------



## lissa530

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.
> 
> I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


Don't give up hope! That is not the way things have to be.


----------



## Haslin

sarafinanickelbocker said:


> You keep your personality inward. I could have the most exciting adventure and not know what to say about it to someone's face, but I can write them one heck of a letter.


 Me too!


----------



## KennethJones

stranger25 said:


> I'm one of the tall types but I found out even if you are average or even above average in the face......average don't cut it.


I believe this to be true. I feel women tend to take male attractiveness for granted because they usually have their pick of the litter. Male beauty is not even celebrated that much by women, its just taken for granted. Thats one of the reasons I think that if i could drastically change my looks it wouldn't matter. I would just go from being "ugly" to being "ok". I don't think "ok" is enough sometimes.


----------



## shynesshellasucks

stranger25 said:


> I haven't looked into the social disconnectedness thing too much yet but I've seen it with my own eyes to know it's how people in general are today. Women don't talk to men, because they get overly paranoid for nothing. Men don't talk to women, because they are physically unattractive and insecure. Nobody has casual conversations unless it's for a good reason. It's a real rarity. Maybe it depends on areas but I think it exists everywhere to some degree. Remember when you could walk down the street and say hi to some little kid with his parents? Nowadays people will call you a pervert or something.


While I agree that there is social disconnectedness, there are places where I believe it is more socially acceptable to talk to people like in work, school, bars, or social clubs (I think these are the best places to meet and talk to people). Of course, stopping somebody in the middle of the street to try to talk to them can come off creepy or desperate, but there are social gatherings you could go to that are more suitable for talking to people.


----------



## percyblueraincoat

KennethJones said:


> I believe this to be true. I feel women tend to take male attractiveness for granted because they usually have their pick of the litter. Male beauty is not even celebrated that much by women, its just taken for granted. Thats one of the reasons I think that if i could drastically change my looks it wouldn't matter. I would just go from being "ugly" to being "ok". I don't think "ok" is enough sometimes.


With love and respect, none of this makes sense. Male Attractiveness? Women notice it but take it for granted and then don't notice it? They have their pick of some imagined litter? How? Not every guy a girl likes is going to reciprocate that interest any more so than when a man expresses interest in girls.

It's an assumption that you're ugly. It's an assumption that changing your looks wouldn't matter. It's an assumption that women don't notice you. All constructed to hold yourself back.


----------



## percyblueraincoat

shynesshellasucks said:


> While I agree that there is social disconnectedness, there are places where I believe it is more socially acceptable to talk to people like in work, school, bars, or social clubs (I think these are the best places to meet and talk to people). Of course, stopping somebody in the middle of the street to try to talk to them can come off creepy or desperate, but there are social gatherings you could go to that are more suitable for talking to people.


Talking to people randomly in the street doesn't automatically come off as creepy or desperate and I think fear of just talking people and seeing what happens gets justified by some through assumptions and worries about being seen as some sort of creep. I make it my business to open conversations with random people when I'm out socialising and so far nobody has run for the hills.

You can talk to people anywhere.


----------



## heroin

KennethJones said:


> I believe this to be true. I feel women tend to take male attractiveness for granted because they usually have their pick of the litter. Male beauty is not even celebrated that much by women, its just taken for granted. Thats one of the reasons I think that if i could drastically change my looks it wouldn't matter. I would just go from being "ugly" to being "ok". I don't think "ok" is enough sometimes.


I'm not sure what to make of your theory, but it's true that women are very harsh judges of beauty (both female and male). I've seen one or two surveys that suggest that.


----------



## shynesshellasucks

joinmartin said:


> Talking to people randomly in the street doesn't automatically come off as creepy or desperate and I think fear of just talking people and seeing what happens gets justified by some through assumptions and worries about being seen as some sort of creep. I make it my business to open conversations with random people when I'm out socialising and so far nobody has run for the hills.
> 
> You can talk to people anywhere.


You are in the UK. I heard it's different in Europe.


----------



## Paragon

shynesshellasucks said:


> You are in the UK. I heard it's different in Europe.


Actually most British people are pretty reserved, at least in my area. I have found that other European countries are a bit more friendly... but the US seemed that way too, at least when i visited it.

That said joinmartin just posted videos of a British guy making random conversation with strangers so i think it's really down to the individual.


----------



## bsd3355

I hate how a relationship and sex are so glorified as if it is the ultimate thing in life. Comes to a point where it is like, "who gives a crap?"


----------



## realsoma

Women notice looks but its far less attractive to have an attitude of fear and loathing and insecurity. Of course no one is going to try to talk to someone who says "there's no point and I'm too ugly and girls are all materialistic" 
There is a huge correlation with attractiveness and confidence. It could be that confidence is more important. 
Plus what are you looking for announcing on the internet that you've decided to be a virgin forever?


----------



## Williams

Mercurochrome said:


> My friend said I'd get laid easily if I had a personality. I'll still working on discovering how to do that.


Wow man, it might be easier to develop the personality you already have with more encouraging friends.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

realsoma said:


> Women notice looks but its far less attractive to have an attitude of fear and loathing and insecurity. Of course no one is going to try to talk to someone who says "there's no point and I'm too ugly and girls are all materialistic"
> There is a huge correlation with attractiveness and confidence. It could be that confidence is more important.
> Plus what are you looking for announcing on the internet that you've decided to be a virgin forever?


Fear and loathing and insecurity is kind of what makes up social anxiety.

And I am not looking for anything except discussion. I have already decided that:

Females with SA = can be in a relationship
Men with SA = cannot be in a relationship

I have accepted this.


----------



## coeur_brise

WintersTale said:


> Fear and loathing and insecurity is kind of what makes up social anxiety.
> 
> And I am not looking for anything except discussion. I have already decided that:
> 
> Females with SA = can be in a relationship
> Men with SA = cannot be in a relationship
> 
> I have accepted this.


If that's true, then there goes all your chances of ever having a relationship, ever, meaning you'll never be in one ever in your lifetime at this point. Never. Well I'm not sure if you've totally accepted the actual truth, just falsely accepted the feeling of depression in never getting into a relationship. There are things which you are not sure of, but we assume such and I think it's safe to assume that there's always a chance of a relationship, even if it sucks *** and doesn't live up to your expectations. so there's your pep talk. have hope man! Never assume such a thing cuz then it'll just nix the possibility altogether.


----------



## KennethJones

WintersTale said:


> Fear and loathing and insecurity is kind of what makes up social anxiety.
> 
> And I am not looking for anything except discussion. I have already decided that:
> 
> Females with SA = can be in a relationship
> Men with SA = cannot be in a relationship
> 
> I have accepted this.


You haven't accepted it yet. Just the fact that you are even talking about this means that you are still holding on to a small shred of hope. If you had accepted this, you wouldn't even be on this part of the forums.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding

KennethJones said:


> You haven't accepted it yet. Just the fact that you are even talking about this means that you are still holding on to a small shred of hope. If you had accepted this, you wouldn't even be on this part of the forums.


You're absolutely right.

And I believe in love. I've seen it happen to my friends and family, true "soulmate" love. So I know it exists.

I just need to hold out hope that it'll come for me someday.


----------



## Mona1234

joinmartin said:


> With love and respect, none of this makes sense. Male Attractiveness? Women notice it but take it for granted and then don't notice it? They have their pick of some imagined litter? How? Not every guy a girl likes is going to reciprocate that interest any more so than when a man expresses interest in girls.
> 
> It's an assumption that you're ugly. It's an assumption that changing your looks wouldn't matter. It's an assumption that women don't notice you. All constructed to hold yourself back.


:agree


----------



## i just want luv

I wont accept it instead but not expect it, things end up fabricated when its pre determined you know.
Like throwing a suprise party when the birthday boy set the decorations.


----------



## millenniumman75

Why do guys keep doing this?
We need to work on our self-esteem and the way we view ourselves.

We need a freakin' Masculinism movement the way dudes carry on about things.

I am far from being in a relationship, but I am having a blast learning about myself and what I can accomplish.


----------



## Sameer

> WintesTale
> I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


I never had any relationship either.I never searched for it because my career issue and that was because of the **** anxiety which caused it before some years...Don't worry..You will get what you want.Don't lose hope.



millenniumman75 said:


> Why do guys keep doing this?
> We need to work on our self-esteem and the way we view ourselves.
> 
> We need a freakin' Masculinism movement the way dudes carry on about things.
> 
> I am far from being in a relationship, but I am having a blast learning about myself and what I can accomplish.


Absolutely right...


----------



## Jessie203

WintersTale said:


> You're absolutely right.
> 
> And I believe in love. I've seen it happen to my friends and family, true "soulmate" love. So I know it exists.
> 
> I just need to hold out hope that it'll come for me someday.


She won't show up on your doorstep.
You have to work hard towards it, and likely conquer a lot of SA fears too.
(Same goes for me with dating)
Being single is fine though too.. life isn't about meeting someone and having children.. it's complex and there are thousands of different pathways.
It's more about your own happiness and attitude.. you deserve to be happy, don't you know that?


----------



## jimity

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.
> 
> I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


Don't despair. There is a girl who will one day possibly meet and you will find yourself lost in an amazing feeling of love and friendship with her and she will too. You will be like a magnet and she will be like a piece of iron, irresistably drawn to each other. When you look into her eyes it will be like looking into a mirror where you see her as yourself. The two of you will recognize each other as if you are very close and who have been together before yet in reality have not. You will instantly click with each other. When you meet the person, even for a short time, you are never the same again because you have met someone who is basically you even though you are two seperate people. Don't think you can actively search for her. She will turn up at the most unexpected times. The two of you will meet in unusual situations. Even with social anxiety, somehow it will be bypassed.


----------



## BetaBoy90

That's disheartening that you feel that way as you seem to be a solid dude. I hope things work out for you in the future.


----------



## gomenne

My theory is, there are over 7 billion people on earth. The probability that a pair of humans feeling the same for each other, is nearly not possible. How would you find that person among the 7 billion first of all ????
Mathematically it is not correct. Thus, "true love" never existed, does not exist, and never will. So when you apply this theory to real life, many people (billions) are alone. It is true though that many get married and are in realationships, but that is just so they wouldn't feel alone, they mostly are with their partners for that reason. And of course cheating, and things like that are bound to happen.


----------



## Deathinmusic

gomenne said:


> My theory is, there are over 7 billion people on earth. The probability that a pair of humans feeling the same for each other, is nearly not possible. How would you find that person among the 7 billion first of all ????
> Mathematically it is not correct. Thus, "true love" never existed, does not exist, and never will. So when you apply this theory to real life, many people (billions) are alone. It is true though that many get married and are in realationships, but that is just so they wouldn't feel alone, they mostly are with their partners for that reason. And of course cheating, and things like that are bound to happen.


What you're describing is something like "soulmates" and indeed it would take a pretty naive person to believe such a notion (in my opinion).

This is how I would look at it. There are close to 7 billion people on earth (I just checked Wikipedia...), so it would be very unlikely that there WOULDN'T be someone out there who would feel the same way about you that you feel about them. In fact I would argue that there are probably thousands of people out there who would be "the right one" for any given person.

With maybe a few exceptions. Some people may actually be so socially inept, emotionally unavailable or *add destructive personal issue* that there may not be anyone for them. At least not until they resolve those issues.


----------



## gomenne

Deathinmusic said:


> What you're describing is something like "soulmates" and indeed it would take a pretty naive person to believe such a notion (in my opinion).
> 
> This is how I would look at it. There are close to 7 billion people on earth (I just checked Wikipedia...), so it would be very unlikely that there WOULDN'T be someone out there who would feel the same way about you that you feel about them. In fact I would argue that there are probably thousands of people out there who would be "the right one" for any given person.
> 
> With maybe a few exceptions. Some people may actually be so socially inept, emotionally unavailable or *add destructive personal issue* that there may not be anyone for them. At least not until they resolve those issues.


I don't completely disagree with what you said, but it's like you are saying, 'there's someone for everyone' kind of thing. I dont beleive in that, if that was true, then why would things like loneliness even exist ? All these people on sas wouldn't have a problem dating and having partners in that case. Am I wrong ?


----------



## Deathinmusic

gomenne said:


> I don't completely disagree with what you said, but it's like you are saying, 'there's someone for everyone' kind of thing. I dont beleive in that, if that was true, then why would things like loneliness even exist ? All these people on sas wouldn't have a problem dating and having partners in that case. Am I wrong ?


I said that just based on numbers it seems more than likely that there's someone out there for pretty much everyone, but maybe not for all. How easy it is to find the right person for you, that's a different matter.

And even if there was someone out there for every single person it doesn't follow that loneliness wouldn't then exist. Maybe a bunch of people just haven't found the right person for them YET.


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## gomenne

Deathinmusic said:


> I said that just based on numbers it seems more than likely that there's someone out there for pretty much everyone, but maybe not for all. How easy it is to find the right person for you, that's a different matter.
> 
> And even if there was someone out there for every single person it doesn't follow that loneliness wouldn't then exist. Maybe a bunch of people just haven't found the right person for them YET.


I don't really believe in that 
Life is sad that's all I can say


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## Deathinmusic

gomenne said:


> Life is sad that's all I can say


We definitely agree there


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## gomenne

Deathinmusic said:


> We definitely agree there


:hs


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## jkquatre

Why I Will Never Have a Girlfriend - nothingisreal.com

Talking about mathematical proofs...


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## Just Tony

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.
> 
> I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


Noooooo unless my balls get chopped off I am never giving up on relationships.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

Just Tony said:


> Noooooo unless my balls get chopped off I am never giving up on relationships.


I suppose I've given up on girls.

After all, if something keeps on failing, is it worth it to keep on trying?

(The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.)

I don't expect different results. I just want to be left alone, to masturbate in peace.


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## Deathinmusic

Don't you think there's just a hint of self-pity and maybe bitterness in what you are "concluding" in this thread? Just a thought, because I can say for myself that my thinking tends to lean that way when it comes to this very issue. It's not attractive or constructive but it's hard not to feel those things when you can't get what you want and feel helpless to change things.

I don't think you have truly accepted what you are saying, and neither have I. This thread is probably more about venting frustration than declaring something for real, which is completely understandable but I think you should at least see what you are doing (if you don't).


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## jkquatre

Deathinmusic said:


> Don't you think there's just a hint of self-pity and maybe bitterness in what you are "concluding" in this thread? Just a thought, because I can say for myself that my thinking tends to lean that way when it comes to this very issue. It's not attractive or constructive but it's hard not to feel those things when you can't get what you want and feel helpless to change things.
> 
> I don't think you have truly accepted what you are saying, and neither have I. This thread is probably more about venting frustration than declaring something for real, which is completely understandable but I think you should at least see what you are doing (if you don't).


Really this is a generalization and perhaps projection of your feelings unto others, both are logical fallacies. I have accepted and come to terms with never having a girl. That is a fact for me that I do not bemoan or am frustrated over anymore than you are upset over a sudden thunderstorm. See the link in my previous post about the mathematical proof. I resent being called "bitter" and "self-pitying" when this is not the case.

I. do. not. care. at. all.

It hasn't mattered for a long time and I have honestly and whole-heatedly given up.


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## Deathinmusic

jkquatre said:


> Really this is a generalization and perhaps projection of your feelings unto others, both are logical fallacies. I have accepted and come to terms with never having a girl. That is a fact for me that I do not bemoan or am frustrated over anymore than you are upset over a sudden thunderstorm. See the link in my previous post about the mathematical proof. I resent being called "bitter" and "self-pitying" when this is not the case.
> 
> I. do. not. care. at. all.
> 
> It hasn't mattered for a long time and I have honestly and whole-heatedly given up.


Well apart from the fact that in one of his posts he already admitted he hasn't accepted it yet, I wasn't claiming to know for sure what his motivation is. I was offering a suggestion based on my own experience which I acknowledged in my message.

If you have accepted that you will never have a girlfriend and are content with this, I am glad for you. I think a lot of people aren't truly willing to accept such a thing even if they really feel that they can't achieve it since the desire for companionship and/or sex is so strong and near-universal.


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## coeur_brise

You guys have given up way too young and too early. Case in point, although my uncle has had girlfriends previously, he didn't get married until age 33 and another uncle at age 34 which is somewhat late by cultural standars. It's never too late, especially when you have your youthful looks. Even at 35 you can at least have one girlfriend, if you haven't had thousands previously.


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## CopadoMexicano

There's always time In finding someone even if your 80yrs old


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## DeeperUnderstanding

MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> There's always time In finding someone even if your 80yrs old


Yeah, look at Hugh Hefner!


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## Amocholes

Lord Baden-Powell (founder of the Boy Scouts) was 55 when he got married for the 1st and only time. He married a woman who was 22.


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## Dan iel

People are so incredibly negative in this thread.

I realised that when I'm happy everything is great, everything is going to work out fine, I can do anything!

When I'm sad, its the complete opposite, going to be lonely, no future, no job, no one likes me.

It's all in the mind and emotions and thoughts will snowball. When you notice you are thinking negative, stop the thought from getting worse.


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## saso

never say never. 
if you believe this i can almost bet money this is what you will end up having. 

don't accept that. its bs.


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## Hank Scorpio

Nothing wrong with accepting reality and not living in the fantasy world they feed you in kindergarden.
Never. There I said it.


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## jkquatre

Hank Scorpio said:


> Nothing wrong with accepting reality and not living in the fantasy world they feed you in kindergarden.
> Never. There I said it.


Better a cold truth than a comfortable delusion. 100% agree.


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## saso

Hank Scorpio said:


> Nothing wrong with accepting reality and not living in the fantasy world they feed you in kindergarden.
> Never. There I said it.


 okay its almost impossible to never say never. i just said it twice.4 times this thread. lol. I have seen male friends of mine with sa say they will never fall in love, sex, all of it and then bam they are hit with it in the face.and i had one friend who worked at putting himself out there and he met someone also. it also happened to me. I use to think this too.and i met someone. like i said total bs.


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## IcemanKilmer

WintersTale said:


> I suppose I'm content with this. After all, what do I have to lose? I have never had sex, so I haven't lost anything.
> 
> I suppose I will die alone, but that's okay. Maybe I'll be surrounded by friends when I go.


What's interesting is that if you are surrounded by friends when you die, you will probably have gotten laid at some point in your life. Friends are an enormous stepping stone to getting laid.


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## DeeperUnderstanding

IcemanKilmer said:


> What's interesting is that if you are surrounded by friends when you die, you will probably have gotten laid at some point in your life. Friends are an enormous stepping stone to getting laid.


I disagree. A loner can get laid, and someone who's physically undesirable (ugly) with a lot of friends can die a virgin.


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## Geronimo2006

Well I am a hideously ugly gay man and yet I am not a virgin so this notion that if you are ugly you will "never have sex" even once is untrue unless you want it to be. I've seen your photo in your profile and you look okay.


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## IcemanKilmer

WintersTale said:


> I disagree. A loner can get laid, and someone who's physically undesirable (ugly) with a lot of friends can die a virgin.


I should have explained a little more about what I meant.

Yes, a loner can get laid. I was just trying to point out that people with friends usually have a better chance of getting laid.

I don't have statistics, but I'm sure many people would agree that it's better to have friends if you want a dating life, than not having friends.


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## IcemanKilmer

saso said:


> i agree kinda. the more contact you have with people the more "contact" you're likely to have. :yes
> you can't get laid without physical contact. so yeah the more friends you have can't hurt for most. unlesss...the person is shutting out intimacy. you can have all the friends you want but if you're closed off to having sex or intimacy with another human it probably won't happen. yes


True, but I also think being around people opens people up more for intimacy.


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## saso

:agree


IcemanKilmer said:


> True, but I also think being around people opens people up more for intimacy.


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