# Balance the Immune System (Th1/Th2)



## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

http://www.ei-resource.org/articles...cheney:-balance-the-immune-system-(th1th2)-/



> CFIDS patients are Th2 activated. This means they over-respond to toxins, allergens, normal bacteria and parasites, and UNDER-RESPOND to VIRUSES (like the epstein barr virus), YEAST (like Candida), cancer and intracellular bacteria (Like that of Lyme's disease). Dr. Cheney suggests six products that can help rebalance the immune system.
> 
> Dr. Cheney explained that the immune system has two different modes of attack, based on the type of invader. One is Th1 (T Helper 1). It goes after organisms that get inside our cells ‚ intracellular pathogens. It is also known as cell-mediated immunity. The other is Th2 (T Helper 2). It attacks extracellular pathogens ‚ organisms that are found outside the cells in blood and other body fluids. Some call this humoral or antibody-mediated immunity. A healthy immune system is dynamic, able to switch back and forth as needed, quickly eradicating one threat and then resting before responding to the next.
> 
> ...


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Continued...



> 3) Pine Cone Extract (supplement
> , www.pinextra.com)
> Cheney said, "They make a tea from this in Southern Japan and they have significantly reduced cancer rates. It's thought to work at the gene level in lymphocytes, where it turns on IL-12. It also shuts down IL-10 at the gene level, and that causes a shift towards Th1. Pine Cone extract is expensive, but at just 10 drops a day (in the morning), of all the possibilities, it's probably the cheapest per day." It is called PineExtra, and 1 oz is about $60, but it lasts a long time.
> 
> ...


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

The point here is, no matter how many anti-fungal or anti-candida supplements we buy. No matter how many vinegar enemas we perform, we will never rid ourselves of candida effectively until we regulate the function of the immune system.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Here's another good link which explains this posted by proximo a while back

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C104791.html

http://grouppekurosawa.com/blog/2005_03_12_

"One of the classic immunological dysfunctions identified rapidly after HIV infections is a shift from the TH1 or cell mediated immune response to the TH2 or antibody based immune response. The nature of this shift has never been conclusively explained. One thing is certain...only TH1 dominant immune responses can clear the HIV and other viruses from their hiding places. Could zinc status be the "switch" that determines the direction of the immune response when confronted with specific pathogens?....

.....in a zinc deficient state, the TH1 response will be impaired, while the TH2 response will be dominant by default. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10944485
Effects of zinc deficiency on Th1 and Th2 cytokine shifts.

"Zinc deficiency in an experimental human model caused an imbalance between Th1 and Th2 functions. "


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Here's more info. on this issue posted by proximo and I over the last few months:

Microbiology Section, Department of Experimental Medicine and Biochemical Sciences, University of Perugia, Italy.

Resistance to Candida albicans infection in mice results from the development of T helper (Th) type 1 cell responses. Cytokines produced by Th1 cells activate macrophages and neutrophils to a candidacidal state. The development of Th2 responses underlines susceptibility to infection, because cytokines produced by Th2 cells inhibit Th1 development and deactivate phagocytic effector cells. With the recognition of the reciprocal influences between innate and adaptive Th immunity, it appears that the coordinated action of these two lines of immune defense is required to efficiently oppose the infectivity of the fungus and to determine its lifelong commensalism at the mucosal level.

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http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/9/5126?

Interleukin 18 Restores Defective Th1 Immunity to Candida albicans in Caspase 1-Deficient Mice

Microbiology Section, Department of Experimental Medicine and Biochemical Sciences, University of Perugia, 06122 Perugia, Italy,1 and Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut 065102

Received 22 February 2000/Returned for modification 1

May 2000/Accepted 20 June 2000

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T-helper cells are part of the immune system. These are a type of white blood cell. There are two types, 1 and 2. 1 works with cellular immunity. It's the part of the immune system that is activated right away during an infection. It's slower and uses no antibodies, but it activates macrophages. Type 2 is used by the Humoral system. This stimulated B-cells to make antibodies.

According to those links, increased activiy in Th 1 is helps fight candida while increase activity in th2 doesn't. So, in theory, anything that elevated Th1 activity, will help you fight candida.

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This th1 th2 imbalance is very important. and you know what else increases th1, SILICA.

References?

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too little Th1 acivity and too much Th2 contributes to aging.

References?

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"A failure of the Th1 arm of the immune system and an overactive Th2 arm is implicated in a wide variety of chronic illnesses. These include AIDS, CFS, candidiasis, multiple allergies, multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS), viral hepatitis, gulf war illness, cancer and other illnesses. If these two arms of the immune system could be balanced by stimulating Th1 and 
decreasing Th2, then many of the symptoms associated with these chronic illnesses would diminish or disappear and we would have found the answer to immune restoration and balance or the equivalent of a cure."

Found this,

"Transfer Factor, Th1 And Th2

If at all possible, you want to get the yeast under control with things that simulate the
immune system without damaging the liver. Such an agent is the specific transfer factor that Hugh Fudenberg, MD is working with. Transfer factor " educates" the immune system to express its Th1 (T-cell Helper type 1) response. The Th1 immune response is needed to control viruses, protozoa, and fungus. Transfer factor is a component of mother' s
first milk (colostrum) that provides immune system messenger molecules. If a transfer factor
is " specific," that means it contains immune components specific to a particular pathogen. For
example, if you have a particular strain of yeast overgrowth, a specific transfer factor product
could be made that targets that strain of yeast. However, I don' t know of any products that
target different strains of yeast that are available to the public at this time."

So, transfer factor, also known as proline-rich polypeptides favors TH1 over th2. Also, Lactoferrin binds to iron making it unavailable to pathogens. This got me thinking. Both these components are found in Colostrum. Colostrum all has immunoglobulins and a whole host of other things. Transfer factor is HELLA expensive and so is lactoferrin. So, why not just take 
colostrum???

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There are many natural agents available to help restore balance in an underactive Th1 arm. These include:

Omega-3 fatty acids, monounsaturated fats found in olive and hazelnut oils, vitamin A cod liver oil, l-Glutamine, Silica, digestive enzymes, friendly intestinal flora or soil based organisms (SBOs), ginseng (Red Korean or concentrated Siberian Ginseng extract), chlorella (spirulina and some other sea vegetables may have similar benefits), thyroid hormones, garlic (raw or aged extract), l-Glutathione (or products that raise levels), DHEA or AED (androstendiol), UV-A light, vitamin E, transfer factor (antigen specific) - protein immunomodulators extracted from colostrum, colostrum, low dose naltrexone, IP6, lentinian and certain other mushrooms, Thymus extracts, licorice root, dong quai, beta 1,3-glucan, noni, neem, gingko biloba, exercise, water (to aid detoxification), a positive attitude, the ability to forgive and be compassionate, and having long-term goals.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C104791.html


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Supplements that enhance TH1 immunity.

-Pineextract (web)
-Zinc
-Earth Dragon (amazon)
-LDN
-Thymic immune Factor (lef)
-Astragalus
-AHCC may increase Natural Killer (NK) Cell activity
-NK immune (source naturals)
-IP6
-Rice Bran Arabinoxylan Compound
-Epicor
-beta glucans
-Coconut/Olive oil
-Increased Glutathione
-Glutamine
-Colostrum
-Ginkgo
-Garlic (Fresh and aged)
-Chlorella
-Noni
-neem
-DHEA
-Silicon
-IP6
-Vitamin E
-Heparin
-Transfer factor


FAvors Th2 (need references to prove)
-Fish oil
-Vitamin A


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks Beggiota 

This topic definitely requires its own thread.

Th1 th2 imbalance is very important for health candida, anxiety, hypoglycemia and other problems we have. 

I can't believe how much progress we have made so far... 

I think it is just a matter of time and determination from now on


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> I can't believe how much progress we have made so far...
> 
> I think it is just a matter of time and determination from now on


I agree. You caught on to this issue early on. I needed to fill in the missing pieces in between to put everything together. Now I'm totally on-board with you.

I think the focus, aside from therapeutic maintenance for things like SAD, indigestion and cognitive problems, should be directed towards the diagnosis of a chronic pathogen and the regulation of the immune system.

From what I'm reading, regulating the th1/th2 function seems to revolve around the thymus gland and doing whatever possible to boost it's function including normalizing vitamin D levels, and maybe using thymus extract.

However, one question still remains.....why is there an imbalance of our immune system??

That's the next step. I hope it's something we already know, like a heavy metal toxicity.

This is one the supplements listed above. Looks promising. http://pine-extra.com/

I'm also trying to get my hands on LDN. But that's going to be hard to come about.

another product http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00224/Thymic-Immune-Factors.html

http://www.proboostmed.com/faq.html

All this stuff, candida, mercury, chronic illness, is all related. Some issues take precedent, like chelating heavy metals from our bodies, removing amalgams, etc. but I think fighting candida is a lost cause unless your immune system is regulated. That said, I'm still doing to to do a 5 day fast/colon cleanse followed by an ACV irrigation...just to see what comes out 

I've been on a sort of vacation the last few months. I start school in January once again and I'll have to fly back to the caribbean. This means no time to research and worse, no access to any kind of supplements. So whatever I do, I'll have to do it pronto


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## sparkationsgirl (Oct 25, 2008)

> CFIDS patients are Th2 activated. This means they over-respond to toxins, allergens, normal bacteria and parasites, and UNDER-RESPOND to VIRUSES (like the epstein barr virus), YEAST (like Candida), cancer and intracellular bacteria (Like that of Lyme's disease).





> FAvors Th2
> -Fish oil
> -Vitamin A


No wonder I've been getting indigestion and peeing more frequently lately since I've upped my dosage of fish oil and included vitamin A in my supplement regimen. I've been peeing every 20 min and farting and burping every 30 min lately. It must be the candida acting up cause i've been wreaking havoc on the balance of my immune system.

I also have a benign brain tumor too, so I better start taking more of the the supplements that enhance Th1 immunity and stop taking fish oil and vitamin A for the time being

Anyway, thanks sooo much for the info!!!!


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## ju_pa (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks for the great info. I have white spots on the finger nails and there is only 2 explanations. One is calcium deficent. Well I consumed alot calcium for some days and they didn't go. Those white spots on my finger nails must show that I am zinc deficient.

Thanks.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

ju_pa said:


> Thanks for the great info. I have white spots on the finger nails and there is only 2 explanations. One is calcium deficent. Well I consumed alot calcium for some days and they didn't go. Those white spots on my finger nails must show that I am zinc deficient.
> 
> Thanks.


From http://www.acu-cell.com/dis.html

White Spots on Fingernails: General mineral imbalance, low calcium, low iron, (not low zinc).

But again you might want to google it. Acu-cell is a nice site to see which minerals causes which disorders.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"Experimentally, Th1 polarization is readily transformed to Th2 dominance through depletion of intracellular glutathione, and vice versa. Mercury depletes glutathione and polarizes toward Th2 dominance. "

This part of the study says fish oil doesn't affect th1/th2 balance

"Several nutrients and hormones measurably influence Th1/Th2 balance, including plant sterols/sterolins, melatonin, probiotics, progesterone, and the minerals selenium and zinc. The long-chain omega-3 fatty acids EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) significantly benefit diverse inflammatory and autoimmune conditions without any specific Th1/Th2 effect."

sparkationsgirl,

If fish oil is giving you indigestion, you're probably not digesting it right. Consider using some digestive enzymes with Lipase or Ox bile and see it that helps. Don't stop fish oil! It's the single best thing you can take for your body.

"t now seems that Th1 cells and the pathway they dominate are heavily reliant on interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), and to a lesser extent interleukin-2 (IL-2) and interleukin-12 (IL-12). Th2 cells are most heavily reliant on interleukin-4 (IL-4) and sometimes interleukin-5 (IL-5) as well."


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## sparkationsgirl (Oct 25, 2008)

> sparkationsgirl,
> 
> If fish oil is giving you indigestion, you're probably not digesting it right. Consider using some digestive enzymes with Lipase or Ox bile and see it that helps. Don't stop fish oil! It's the single best thing you can take for your body.


oh okay, good thing you cleared things up. anyway, i will take digestive enzymes to see whether it helps with the indigestion!


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

Great job!! Very interesting reading despite my severe brain fog today*!! 

My candida is getting worse by the minute...these are some great tips. The hypoglycemia turns into severe anxiety for several hours at a time!!Lovely
I also wanted to add that when I take too much fish oil I get hyper. Wonder what that is about...

What about molybedeum (gotta love my spelling) any thoughts on taking that?


In the meantime I am going to try Swedish Bitters for enxymes and will report back. I couldn't take the other enzymes bromelein papain etc. Although I am going to Try Papain on it's own. But I am definately going to try some of the above stuff!!


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

Also wanted to ask how many of you are taking q10? I am now positive that it was the 30 mg q10 and the magnesium that took me from a typical CFS to having a normal energy level. I took carnitine for 3 months but it was not until I´took the q10 that Igot a normal energy level back. I can't handle more thant 30 mg because ya you now the hyper wired feelings come......


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

http://www.bulkmsm.com/DMG/web12.htm

DIETARY FACTORS THAT SUPPORT Th1 CYTOKINES

Omega 3 fatty acids (N3) found in cold water fish reduce IL-6, tumor necrosis factor and support DTH. Oleic acid, found in olive oil (cold pressed) and hazelnut oil, vitamin A and L-glutamine increases IgA and improve mucosal integrity. The use of two heat-treated strains of lactobacillus - L. Plantarum and L. Casei induces a strong IL-12 response and increases IFN-gamma and strengthen the systemic immune response against all intra-cellular infections and even cancers. The intestinal flora Bifidobacterium longum also increases IgA and improves mucosal immunity. Silica reduces excess IgG and this improves NK function and improves the integrity of the skin and mucus membranes.

1. Omega 3 fatty acids (DHA/EPA) found in all cold water fish, especially in salmon, sardines, mackerel, halibut and trout. Supplements: Max DHA (Jarrow Formulas) Salmon oil capsules, Cod liver oil. DHA - 1500 to 2500 mg daily and EPA - 500 to 1000 mg daily.

2. Oleic acids (Monounsaturated). Best choice is cold pressed olive oil (a therapeutic dose is 4 tablespoons daily), 2nd best - hazelnut or filbert oil. Also green and ripe olives, filberts and hazelnuts. Third - almonds and almond oil.

3. Vitamin A - 2 tablespoons of cod liver oil daily (Dale Alexander emulsified) or 25,000 i.u. daily of Vitamin A with vitamin D plus 1/2 to 1 lb daily of any of the following sourcesof carotenoids: cooked carrots, squash, pumpkin and sweet potatoes (yams).

4. L-Glutamine - 10 to 20 grams or more daily or as directed. Maintenance: 2000 mg daily.

5. Silica - One serving of cooked oatmeal or millet daily and/or the herb horsetail (3 caps 2X) or Bio-Sil (Jarrow Formulas) - the most bio-available form - 10 drops 3 times a day. Maintenance - 10 drops once a day.

6. L-plantarum and/or L casei and B. longum - up to 1 teaspoon of powder 2 or 3 times a day. After 7 to 14 days of use, you may only need to use this 3 days per week.

Other products like Neem, soil based organisms (SBO's) and supplemental factors that replace glutathione help Th1 responses. The more of the above items you use, the faster you will see results. It is critically important to completely avoid processed vegetable oils and foods cooked with them and other factors that promote Th2 cytokines.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

DIETARY FACTORS THAT INCREASE Th2 CYTOKINES

The three most common factors that drive Th2 cytokine responses are:

1. Faulty digestion leading to absorption of partially digested and unusable proteins and other food particles (increases IgG and IgE antibody responses that are directed against these foreign food particles). Here we see the therapeutic benefits of digestive enzymes, eating slowly mixing lots of saliva with food and eating only when hungry).

2. White sugar and glucose and all processed foods containing these (Coke, canned soda, candy bars, cake, pie, sweet rolls etc.) - directly weakens the functioning of macrophages, natural killer cells and other white blood cells and weakens systemic resistance to all infections.

3. Consuming trans-fatty acids found in most heated and processed vegetable oils (soy, canola, safflower, corn and sunflower) that are high in n-6 fatty acids (linoleic) and food products made with them (i.e. french fries and potato chips). Vegetable oils high in linoleic trans-fatty acids stimulate IL-6 and depress delayed type hypersensitivity (DTH) thus weakening CD8 Killer-T cell activity. The trans-fatty acids are twisted out of their normal “cis” shape and produce cell membranes that are porous and vulnerable to viral infections.

For example, persons who consume canned soda (i.e. Coco-cola) and french fries daily and are already immune compromised will worsen their condition by these dietary choices. Many other factors that stimulate a Th2 response will be discussed later. Some herbs (Echinacea and Astragalus) stimulate both Th1 and Th2 cytokines.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

a. Cayenne - 1 or 2 capsules taken before meals stimulates hunger and digestive enzymes. (support digestion of nutrients for mucosal membrane integrity)

b. Lemon juice or apple cider vinegar - taken with meals stimulates hydrochloric acid for protein digestion. (support digestion of nutrients for mucosal membrane integrity). Vinegar, any type, kills HIV and may other pathogens.

c. B vitamins - several kinds are needed to support hydrochloric acid production that is needed for protein digestion. B6 is very important for CMI.

d. Magnesium - needed by pancreas to produce pancreatin - used to digest proteins.

12. Garlic - raw or aged extract - promotes NK function and IL-2. Raw garlic kills HIV, many kinds of fungus and bacteria including MAC.

13. L-Glutathione - promotes antigen presentation and stimulates CD8 CTL’s. An antioxidant, it neutralizes free radicals. Alpha Lipoic acid, selenium, NAC, cold processed whey proteins, certified raw milk and L-glutamine support increased Glutathione levels.

14. DHEA or AED (androstendiol). - increases IL-2, IFN-gamma and decreases IL-6 and 10.

15. Acupuncture (points ST36, LI11 and RN6) increase IL-2, IFN-gamma and NK function.

16. UVA light - promotes IL-12.

17. Vitamin E - increases IL-2, NK function and IFN-gamma. Reduces NF-kappa B.

18. Transfer factor (antigen specific) - protein immuno-modulators extracted from colostrum from immunologically stimulated animals that promotes DTH and specific immunity to certain antigens (viruses etc.).

19. Colostrum - contains IgA - promotes mucosal immunity and immunity to specific antigens to which the animal was exposed.

20. Naltrexone - promotes NK function and resistance to candida albicans, thus reducing Th2 cytokines.

21. IP6 - found in brown rice and corn - promotes NK function.

22. NK911 - a transfer factor that stimulates NK function.

23. Lentinian and certain other mushrooms - promote Th1 cytokines and NK function.

24. Thy-Mate and thymic factors (Bio-Pro thymic Protein A) - increases IL-2 and T cell counts.

25. DNCB - promotes DTH and CD8 CTL activity

26. Licorice root and Dong Quai - reduces antibody production.

27. Beta 1, 3 glucan - found in the common yeast and in oats and oat sprouts/rye sprouts - stimulates macrophage and neutrophil function. Note: may also spike IL-6 levels indicating a cross-regulatory role.

28. Noni -Tahitian - 2 tablespoons twice daily - promotes NK function and immunity against cancer.

29. Neem - promotes IFN-gamma and increases CD8s - also, a powerful antiviral, antifungal and antibacterial herb.

30. Gingko Biloba - reduces cortisol production that suppresses Th1 cytokines.

31. Exercise - aerobic - light and fun. Walking, gardening, dancing, sports. increases endorphin levels - improves NK function - removes toxins from body.

32. Water- Drink 8 to 12 glasses daily - removes toxins - reduces stress on adrenals, liver and kidneys.

33. Positive attitude and prayer. - ability to forgive, compassionate, willingness to help others. Long term goals, not just daily and a will to live. Reduces stress on the adrenal glands.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

13 TYPES OF ENEMAS

Thirteen types of enemas being considered are

1. Garlic and apple cider vinegar.

2. Aloe vera juice - 1 cup to a enema bag filled with water

3. Witch Hazel - 1 tbsp in a cup of water to make a tea.

4. Lemon Balm - 1 tbsp in a cup of water to make a tea.

5. Chlorophyll - 1/4 cup to an enema bag.

6 Yogurt - plain/sour - add one cup to a 2 qt enema bag.

7. Buttermilk - 1 cup to an enema bag.

8. Ozonated water enema.

9. Urine retention enema. Add one cup of more of your first morning urine to the enema bag and fill the balance with water.

10. Coffee retention enemas.

11. Bitter melon.

12. Black walnut.

13. Charcoal. 1 heaping teaspoon to an enema bag filled with water (about 10 capsules broken open)

The Witch Hazel or Lemon Balm tea is then added to the enema bag and the balance is filled with lukewarm water.

My initial suggestion is to rotate these enemas every 7 days. The anti viral enemas are Garlic and vinegar, Lemon Balm, chlorophyll, charcoal, Bitter Melon, ozonated water and urine. Anti-parasitic enemas are garlic and black walnut. Anti-fungal enemas are garlic, vinegar and black walnut. Enemas to heal the mucus membranes are aloe vera, buttermilk, yogurt and witch hazel. Enema to detoxify the liver is coffee. Enema to implant good bacteria is yogurt. Enema to absorb toxins, viruses and bacteria is charcoal.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

SILICA - an anti-viral and immune booster

Silica is found in horsetail and in whole grain foods - the fiber portion. As a supplement, silica gel is sold over-the-counter; it is manufactured from crystalline quartz. A book called “SILICA - THE AMAZING GEL, by Klaus Kaufman, reports on a case where silica gel applied topically cleared a herpes lesion in 5 days. The author also reports that silica has been used to successfully treat tuberculosis, warts, intestinal infections and increases immunity to cancer as well as stimulates phagocytes (macrophages and neutrophils) and lymphocytes (T cells), claims that are documented from several sources. In Positive Health News, Report No 17, I reported on scientific research that indicates that silica decreases IgG, an immunoglobulin that when in excess diminishes Natural Killer cell activity.

In a surprising discovery, I have read several scientific articles about PCR testing for quantitating HIV particles that mention “silica” and imply that silica particles are used to bind to the HIV RNA proteins to help with the counting of the amount of HIV RNA plates in the blood serum. Another article mentioned “silica-immobilized” in references to Staphylococcus proteins. Silica may immobilize viruses by binding to their proteins. With its ability to bind to viral proteins, it is curious why silica has not been tested as a direct antiviral agent in controlled studies.

I have talked to many persons affected by AIDS and CFIDS who reports excess IgG in their lab reports. Excess IgG keeps the immune system locked in the TH2 cytokine mode. Silica could turn out to be an important discovery as both an anti-viral mineral and an immune modulator to improve NK function and decrease IgG and TH2 cytokine levels. Based on this research, it is more probable than possible that silica will provide immunological benefits for persons affected by AIDS, CFIDS and cancer.

Food sources of silica: Silica is found abundantly in the herb horsetail, millet, oats and the bran portion of whole grains and in onions and red beets. As a supplement, it is sold in health food stores as “Silica Gel.” A highly bio-available form of silica is Bio-Sil by Jarrow Formulas. Kaufman reports in his book that in Russia, a treatment for tuberculosis is to consume 20 grams (about 3/4 ounce) of pureed millet daily which provides 100 mg of soluble silica.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

very interesting article from JOURNAL OF CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME

http://www.cfids-cab.org/cfs-inform/Immunology/patarca-montero.etal01.pdf

Immunotherapy
of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome:
Therapeutic Interventions Aimed
at Modulating the Thl/Th2 Cytokine
Expression Balance


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Hey Beggiota it is written also here http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C104791.html

Factors that induce Th2 cytokines and suppress cell-mediated immunity. Processed, heated vegetable oils high in trans-fatty acids and linoleic acid (safflower, soy, canola, corn and sunflower), glucose (white sugar), asbestos, lead, mercury and other heavy metals, pesticides, air and water pollutants, progesterone, prednisone, morphine, tobacco, cortisol (in high doses), HIV, candida albicans, HCV, E coli and many other pathogens, continuous stress, thalidomide, UV-B light, pregnancy, melatonin (conflicting research suggests that high levels induce Th2 cytokines while very small amounts induce Th1 cytokines), alcohol (animals studies show that ethanol definitely suppresses Th1 cytokines and induces Th2; beer was not tested and there are some indications it may help), streptococcus thermophilis (sometimes found in yoghurt), candidiasis, circulating immune complexes (CICs - caused by a combination of leaky gut syndrome and poor digestion of proteins due to a lack or HCl and digestive enzymes), sedentary lifestyle, negative attitudes, low body temperature, acid saliva pH, chronic insomnia, inability to dream, weight lifting, and steroids (for muscle gain).

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asbestos, lead, mercury and other heavy metals, pesticides, air and water pollutants,
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HEHE, no question is remainig I guess, Let's chelate


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Found this: Heavy metals damage the myelin sheet of nerves.

http://overcomingcandida.com/autism_heavy_metal.htm

Apparently, zinc binds with and stabilizes the myelin sheath. Mercury increases urinary excretion of zinc (resulting in zinc deficiency). Mercury also interferes with zinc's binding with MBP and impairs MBP aggregation. Myelin sheath (the fatty acid complex that surrounds the axons of nerves) is derived from the amino acid serine and involves vitamin B12. A serine deficiency is seen in candidiasis and hypoglycemia. Serine is required for the growth and maintenance of muscle. An excess of serine and threonine is seen in vitamin B6 deficiency. One variation of serine, namely Phosphatidylserine, serves several important functions within the central nervous system including development of the myelin sheath. The amino acid glycine is a precursor to serine, and the two are interconvertible. This MBP damage can be ameliorated, further damage prevented or repaired through nutritional intervention and the removal of heavy metals. Specifically, by supplementing lecithin, and using the other nutritional interventions mentioned herein. Lecithin, though from soy, does not have the negative qualities of soy for it does not contain those negative substances of soy protein, copper, diadzen, and genistein. Lecithin has proved useful in the following conditions:

1. It prevents cholesterol from congealing in fatty clumps in the blood and attaching to the vessel walls. It lowers the "melt" point from something like 180 degrees Fahrenheit to somewhere in the range of 65-75 degrees, fully liquid in the blood.

2. Exhibits good antioxidant properties.

3. Supplies choline that is so necessary to proper use of fats, and which increases available acetylcholine in the brain. A lack of acetylcholine produces urinary retention, gastric reflux, reduced cognitive function, and myasthenia gravis. Manganese, methionine, and inositol work with choline to produce lecithin in the body.

4. Detoxifies lead, mercury, various drugs, and counteracts the effects of radiation and DDT, and neutralizes many poisons. It protects and repairs myelin sheath of nerve fibers damaged by heavy metals and toxins-neutralizing or minimizing the effects of nitrates and nitrites.

5. In cancer treatment, it prevents melena (blood in the stool from radiation damage).

6. Dr. Minea achieved improvement in 80% of MS patients with injections of lecithin. Copper is also needed for myelin sheath.

7. With the B-vitamins, rutin, calcium, magnesium, and unsaturated fatty acids, it gives relief of shingles.

8. With vitamin E, it reduced insulin requirements of diabetics in several patients.

9. Aids in protecting the eyes.

10. Lecithin and antioxidants should accompany supplemental fatty acids.

11. Being high in phosphorus, it can imbalance calcium if coupled with an intake of soft drinks, meats, and phosphate additives in processed foods. Studies in Germany (Hafer, 1979) related high levels of phosphate to troublesome behavior and hyperactivity in children, with marked improvement when the excess phosphate was removed from their diet. It is very easy to get excess phosphate from soft drinks, processed foods, and baked goods where it is used as an additive.


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

This is GREAT!! Iam going to read it and read it! Thanks!!


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Mercury...you baistard!


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20297524

Alum boosts TH2-type antibody responses to whole-inactivated virus influenza vaccine in mice but does not confer superior protection

Major difference between these groups of mice was the type of immune response induced, TH2 instead of TH1, indicating that a TH1 response plays a major role in viral clearance.
-------------------------------------

Beggiota I looked at your mineral analysis again and it seems to me that aluminium is on the limit.

The limit 7.0 and you got 6.6, I mean what happens after 7.0, alzheimer? Is this why we have similar problems to alzheimer patients?

We should chelate those toxic metals but not to forget taking silica I suppose. Seriously nothing makes me chill like silica.

This is related to chemical or material science but I think it would also show how metals react

Nanoporous silica removes mercury from water

http://www.performance-materials.net/htm/f20040601.185334.htm


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

OKay guys I just want to say I am really not doing good, despite the normal testing I am just not getting any where..getting sicker and sicker. My hypoglycemiawas so bad yesterday that I amost fainted The bloating is out of this world and I am loosig weight since there is not much I can eat.The insomnia is so severe that I had to take 3X my sleeping pill besides knowing of the risks and have slept only 4 hours and now am going to work. Yes the doctors can't explain ANYTHING. Infact I am still waiting for the results of my gastroscopy taking one month ago. 

Okay enough complaining...
I am taking zinc 15 mg, selenium 100 mg, magnesium 2-400 and I have lowered my fish oil to 1000 from 2000. I am know also taking Swedish bitters since the ACV and lemon juice makes me worse. 
After reading up I decided to order the pine cone extract and can't wait for it to arrive. I also am going to buy silica and e vitamin today. 
I received Andrew Cutlers book and some supplements that contain algin and I will take the q 10. 
I am also despite being broke going to goto England despite being broke and get my 8-9 mercury fillings out.
Wish me luck and and have mercy cause I can't hang in like this much longer. This is ruining my life. Now that we know so much the prognosis is not good unless I stop this from getting worse.
Nunni


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## sparkationsgirl (Oct 25, 2008)

> OKay guys I just want to say I am really not doing good, despite the normal testing I am just not getting any where..getting sicker and sicker. My hypoglycemiawas so bad yesterday that I amost fainted The bloating is out of this world and I am loosig weight since there is not much I can eat.The insomnia is so severe that I had to take 3X my sleeping pill besides knowing of the risks and have slept only 4 hours and now am going to work. Yes the doctors can't explain ANYTHING. Infact I am still waiting for the results of my gastroscopy taking one month ago.
> 
> Okay enough complaining...
> I am taking zinc 15 mg, selenium 100 mg, magnesium 2-400 and I have lowered my fish oil to 1000 from 2000. I am know also taking Swedish bitters since the ACV and lemon juice makes me worse.
> ...


I'm in a rut myself. My candida is totally flaring up. I've been having serious indigestion problems, farting, burping, peeing too frequently. It sucks cause I can't seem to think straight and concentrate on my schoolwork when I need to pee every 20 min and the overall bloating feeling I get.

Anyway, the thing I'm worried about is whether-due to the indigestion/malabsorption problems, I'm even able to absorb the vitamins and mineral supplements that I usually take. that just feeds into the vicious cycle because lack of nutrients absorbed leads to poor immune system, which then leads to candida overgrowth, which then leads to malabsorption which then leads to lack of nutrients absorbed again! making the malabsorption problem even worsee!! hooopefully, the digestive enzymes i'm currently taking will help with this. i suggest you take digestive enzymes as well to help with absorption

Right now, I'm taking heavy doses of cranberry concentrate capsules, digestive enzymes, 90 mg zinc, 1 g of vitamin C, and probiotics. I hope things clear up soon cause i have **** to do, i.e schoolwork, lol

anyway, hang in there.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Nuni,

Have you had your adrenals checked? Sounds like it could be related. If you buy vitamin E, make sure it's not synthetic and that it contains all eight molecules of the vitamin, 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols. Otherwise, you're wasting money. How does the apple cider vinegar and lemon make you worse?? There's a way to check if you have adrenal problems at home. It called the pupil test http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

Also, I think I'm going to order the pine cone extra as well. It sounds really promising and I like that one little bottle lasts a while. Are you getting it from Pineextra.com?

Sparktationgirl,

I think the cranberry extract is making you pee. The sugar in cranberry is not used by the body so it's flushed by the kidneys. But I'm just guessing.

I know how you all feel. I took me a while until I reached some sort of stability. Now I can focus better on the bigger problem at hand. But first, you have to learn how to live with yourself as you are and this is tricky.


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks for the encouragement s. girl!! 
B- I feel worse than ever and thanks will definately buy the vit. e thats non synthetic. 

I have adrenal fatigue and was tested and my adrenals are shot. 

Well I have a ph balance 5.6 so I am very acidic. It is either the magnesium glycinate or the ACV that is making me worse. 
Yes got it from pinecone extra.com
I have been sitting on the computer all day and you know my face burns when I do that..I have been obsessing for 10 hours today..


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I read something online about how to make your body more alkaline by increasing oxygenation. It involves making a drink of olive oil and lemons. That's it. Seems simple enough to try. You might want to google that and see if you find more info.

Also, I think I'm going to try Cat's claw to boost the immune system. It also seems to be effective for Lyme's for which I think I have. Anyways, instead of buying a bottle from Iherb, I found a couple sites that sell bulk (1 pound) powders really cheap so I'll be able to google hoards of this stuff down. Ya veremos..


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

B-Where are you ording your cats claw?? I have read great stuff about that!! I say at this point I don't have so much to loose! Will definately google the olive oil lemon thing!!
Thanks so much!!


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

I'm looking at cats claw from Rain-tree.com. They come straight from the amazon.

Found this study

[quote1: Altern Med Rev. 2001 Dec;6(6):567-79. Links
Review of antiviral and immunomodulating properties of plants of the Peruvian rainforest with a particular emphasis on Una de Gato and Sangre de Grado.

Williams JE.
California Acupuncture College, San Diego, CA, USA. [email protected]
Viral diseases, including emerging and chronic viruses, are an increasing worldwide health concern. As a consequence, the discovery of new antiviral agents from plants has assumed more urgency than in the past. A number of native Amazonian medicines of plant origin are known to have antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory activity, although only a few have been studied for their antiviral properties and immunomodulating effects. Those most studied include: Sangre de Grado (drago) (Croton lechleri) in the Euphorbiaceae family and Una de Gato (Uncaria tomentosa) in the Rubiaceae family. This article reviews the chemical composition, pharmacological properties, state of current research, clinical use, and potential antiviral and immunomodulating activity of these and other plants from the Peruvian Amazon.
PMID: 11804547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE[/quote]

So, cat's claw and sangre de grado ave antibacterial and antiviral properties.

That site, raintree had a lot of different products that come from the amazon. That seems like a great source of untapped potential there.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> I'm looking at cats claw from Rain-tree.com. They come straight from the amazon.
> 
> Found this study
> 
> ...


So, cat's claw and sangre de grado ave antibacterial and antiviral properties.

That site, raintree had a lot of different products that come from the amazon. That seems like a great source of untapped potential there.[/QUOTE]

Cat's claw is harmful on kidneys there is even a case where someone got kidney failure from it.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20;766828
Cat's claw is harmful on kidneys there is even a case where someone got kidney failure from it.[/QUOTE said:


> NOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo! I curse you mother earth, I curse you!!!!
> 
> Can you provide references for that?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9375835

Acute renal failure caused by 'cat's claw' herbal remedy in a patient with systemic lupus erythematosus.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Cats_Claw.asp

Studies have also shown that cat's claw contains tannins which, in large amounts, may cause upset stomach or even kidney damage. Small children and women who are pregnant or breast-feeding should not use this herb.

I hate that too. It seems there is no supplement without side effects but I would personnaly avoid the ones with serious consequences such as this.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Beggiatoa said:


> I read something online about how to make your body more alkaline by increasing oxygenation. It involves making a drink of olive oil and lemons. That's it. Seems simple enough to try. You might want to google that and see if you find more info.


I tried the Olive/lemon drink this morning and yesterday. I have a juicer so it makes it a lot easier. You're supposed to use the entire lemon and it's best to do it fasted.

Anyways, yesterday I didn't feel any different but today after drinking it, I feel a pressure/discomfort around my liver. I know this sounds insane, but it's true. It feels like it's working...that everything is moving there. It feels how your stomach does after eating a bad meal. I can only assume this is detoxing/flushing the liver since it was just lemon juice, olive oil and water.

There's definitely something to this.


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> I tried the Olive/lemon drink this morning and yesterday. I have a juicer so it makes it a lot easier. You're supposed to use the entire lemon and it's best to do it fasted.
> 
> Anyways, yesterday I didn't feel any different but today after drinking it, I feel a pressure/discomfort around my liver. I know this sounds insane, but it's true. It feels like it's working...that everything is moving there. It feels how your stomach does after eating a bad meal. I can only assume this is detoxing/flushing the liver since it was just lemon juice, olive oil and water.
> 
> There's definitely something to this.


How do you know how your liver works No I am not gonna do this. But I tried to explain this before there is some feeling that you know it is working it is like there was some problem and it is the feeling of relieve.


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

proximo20 said:


> How do you know how your liver works No I am not gonna do this. But I tried to explain this before there is some feeling that you know it is working it is like there was some problem and it is the feeling of relieve.


Yeah, I kept that thread in mind when I was writing this. The feeling was more like a constant pressure and very milk pain/discomfort. I'll try it again tomorrow and see how it goes. There are even diets to keep your blood levels alkaline..this seems like an easier way to do it.


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## nunni (Sep 12, 2008)

hmm sounds interesting!! Let us know how it goes !


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

> *1: *Altern Med Rev. 2003 Aug;8(3):223-46. Links
> 
> *Th1/Th2 balance: the hypothesis, its limitations, and implications for health and disease.*
> 
> ...


-So, raising glutathione favors Th1
-Fish oil has no effect
-Mercury lowers Th1
-Sterols/sterolins favors Th1 (I've see this on coming up again and again)


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> -So, raising glutathione favors Th1
> QUOTE]
> 
> I think whatever the main cause is it disrupts our glutathione metabolism in the first place it is directyl related to body ph, muscle ph and stomach acidity. It can be heavy metal toxicity but what else can it be?
> ...


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## Beggiatoa (Dec 25, 2004)

Proximo,

The acidity in the blood is caused in part by the buildup of Carbon dioxide (co2). This mixes with water and forms carbonic acid. Carbonic acid then breaks down into H and bicarbonate (Hco3)

H2CO3 <-----> H + Hco3

I've been using the lemon/oil mix and I'm pretty sure it's doing what it's supposed to. Lemons are supposed to be the best food to alkalinize your body (except the gut) so just make sure you sprinkle some in your food. It tastes great with everything. I use lemon on hard boiled eggs. Yummy!

I wrote before that some viruses and bacteria actually produce proteins that mimic cytokines which lower TH1 activity and favor TH2. This again points to the problem being chronic infection. I think we are wasting a lot of time trying to analyze every single symptom we have until we rule out the likely candidates:

Lyme's disease, Epstein barr virus, HHV-6 and a few others I listed before. I called around a few doctor's to test for lyme's disease. I don't have insurance so I was paying out of pocket. They wanted anywhere from 250-500 dollars just for the appointment. The test itself is $200. I don't mind the 200, but paying 700 dollars total is just insane. Anyways, If you have insurance, the best test for Lyme's disease is the Igenex IGG and IGM.

If you have joint pain and inflammation, low thyroid and adrenal function, I cannot think of anything else that will cause this along with the psychological problems we are having. We seem to have TOO many unrelated symptoms....blablabla.

I was going to buy all these supplements to help with the Adrenals but I didn't. I realized it was going to be a waste of time much like the hundred of others things i have tried. I need to address the underlying cause. I have some little critter doig havocin my body.

I wrote before that using benfotiamine got rid of the tremors I had. I really meant it, this stuff worked. When I ran out, I didn't re-buy to see if the symptoms would come back. Guess what? After a couple of weeks, they're slowly returning. So, benfotiamine was a great therapy and corrected the damage that is causing the tremors, but it didn't address the main cause, whatever that may be. I'll buy some again, but I know I have to keep looking.

I'm sorry If I'm ranting. My eyes have been really dry today, more than normal. I keep adding drops but nothing seems to help. My elbows hurt and pop all the time. I right shoulder comes out of the socket if I move it in a funny way. I tried lifting a little weights today and I felt so weak! How can I have so many different symptoms?


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

Beggiatoa said:


> I wrote before that using benfotiamine got rid of the tremors I had. I really meant it, this stuff worked. When I ran out, I didn't re-buy to see if the symptoms would come back. Guess what? After a couple of weeks, they're slowly returning. So, benfotiamine was a great therapy and corrected the damage that is causing the tremors, but it didn't address the main cause, whatever that may be. I'll buy some again, but I know I have to keep looking.


What Benfotiamine Does: 
Studies have shown that benfotiamine seems to help prevent complications of neuropathy, retinopathy and nephropathy by inhibiting the build-up of glucose in the vessels.

Benfotiamine is a fat-soluble form of vitamin B1. In clinical trials, it has been shown to be effective in reversing the damage caused by high blood sugar.

http://diabetes.about.com/od/whatsonthehorizon/p/benfotiamine.htm


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## nick1990 (Apr 4, 2010)

hey i joined just to post in this thread

This is not entirely SA related, but i have some thyroid/Th-1, TH-2 problems, and through searching, i found this thread

I know this is a very old topic, but hopefully someone can help me

I was wondering how you find out or know if you are TH1 or TH2 dominant?

Also, what would be the best form of treatment for either scenario?

Does this help the entire immune system?

thanks


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