# Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles



## shiznit (Nov 21, 2004)

Sad to see peeps respond so depressingly in this forum. Doesnt matter what peeps are going through. Do you really think your life sucks? My only Sister killed herself on the 27th of December, 2006. Whats worse that that?

JROB posted earlier in this forum and is 100% corrrect. There is nothing wrong with anyboby that considers themself as an SAer. Only thing wrong is that you think there is something wrong. Only reason SAers have SA is because they have allowed other people to influence the way they think. You who are reading, and yes you, have SA today because you allow it. Nobody can prove me wrong as I am right. You have SA today because you allow yourself to.

SAers think they are inferior to others and they are correct *because they think they are.* That is reality for SASers.

You are whatever the **** you want to be. I used to consider myself an SAer but have learned that SA is self taught. I had social anxiety because I told myself I did. I allowed others to agree with me on that in all forms of siuations I experienced.

Main point: I blame nobobody outside of myself for where I am today. How can any SAer really put their problems on other people? We of course cant expect others to solve our problems, yes? You are your solution if you want to be. Stop whining, figure out what you want, go for it because its there!!!!!

This will likekly be deleted by the mods, so enjoy while it lasts.


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## thatswet (Oct 22, 2006)

can you explain how you changed?


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

I don't have SA because I THOUGHT myself into having it. Is a child under the age of 5 able to do that? I don't think so. I've always responded to social situations with panic or anxiety attacks, before I knew what I was feeling, the term "social anxiety disorder", even before I knew how to read. So NO just telling myself that I'm okay will not make my SA disappear magically. It takes conditioning my brain to relearn how to think, feel, act, and perceive to make my SA go away.


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## shiznit (Nov 21, 2004)

Tuna:

I threw out my perspective. Never told anybody to just tell themselves they are OK. I am and will always know that people have full control over their own feelings and beliefs. You are exactly right if you dont agree. If you believe if will take a long time to condition your thinking, you are right. You define yourself and what you want in your life. 

You come off very negative and you will continue to attract negative into your life. Again just my perspective. 

You seem to think that because of your genes or maybe your upbringring that you are forced to live a life of struggle. You will continue to because you allow yourself to. One day, I hope you get fed up and realize you have so much more to offer the world.


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## shiznit (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



thatswet said:


> can you explain how you changed?


Good question!!!

I rewired my brain from negative thinking to positive thinking. I spend my forum time these days on positive forums.

Watch the movies suggested below. Its easy to do and provides excellent information about how powerful we all are.

Three I suggest are:

1) What the bleep do we know? 
2) Down the Rabbit Hole. (Sequel to what the bleep)
3) The Secret


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

I've done what you've said to do countless times before in the past. I told myself I didn't have any problems and insisted there's nothing wrong with me. Along with that I've also used the "I'm just shy" explanation, using anger, forcing myself to do things that cause me anxiety, thinking I'll outgrow it, etc. I've tried every method you can think of. None of those work. Actually it made me feel worse. I've tried everything to try to better myself but the only thing that does work is cbt from my experience. 

Actually I'm a pretty positive person. I don't think I'm inferior and I know I have a lot to offer. I've come a long way. I've realized the only thing that helps someone with SA is to not fight against the anxiety but to accept you have it and to work on it. Denying my problem isn't going to help because like I said I've tried that method.

From participating in cbt, I now realize that I do have the ability to gain control over my feelings and thoughts. However that takes time. People don't drastically change their thoughts and feelings overnight whether you have SA or not. If it was that simple, no one would be on this site.

No, I don't think I'm forced to live a life of struggle because of my genes or upbringing. I believe people can change if they're willing to put in the effort. However, I know that with SA there are not alot of qualified therapists to assist someone in their recovery. I have confidence that I will get rid of SA. I've been in therapy and will go to therapy again until I overcome this.

It is not my fault I have SA. I didn't ask for it nor did I choose it. I was too young to comprehend any of that. All I know is that I felt intense fear around people at a very early age. I didn't think there was something wrong with me for those feelings to come up. I had those FEELINGS FIRST. As I got older and realized that I didn't behave like my peers in social situations that's when I knew there was something wrong. My negative thoughts came about because of feeling fear. Not the other way around. So your theory of just telling people that there's nothing wrong with them doesn't fit because in my case the fear feelings came first and the negative thoughts second. I have to re-learn to not associate people with fear. It is my responsibility to get help for myself though, which is what I'm doing.

It is frustrating to hear people put themselves down on this site since that doesn't help them at all, but I know where they're coming from because I used to be like that. However, trying to belittle their pain, ignoring the negative experiences they have been through, and basically telling them they're stupid because they believe they have something called "social anxiety", isn't going to help anyone.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

Right, I guess I'm just imagining my panic attacks, and my OCD, and my GAD and everything else.


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## TheContrary (May 2, 2006)

hey peeps, i havent been here for little while. Sorry to here your sister killed herself, shiznit - are you doing okay? How old was she? 
I watched What the Bleep Do We Know.....choosing one's own reality - i love this. It's something i have to keep reminding myself of ...so very easy to fall back into old mindset.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

I agree with shiznit 100%. We have SA, because we allow ourselves to think that we have SA. Yes, it is our fault that we have SA, because we have a negative perception of reality. Heres something important: WE CAN ALL CHANGE OUR MINDSET, AND BE FREE OF SA. It is up to you to change it. I am very interested in paranormal, higher states of consciousness etc. stuff, and through methods like Silva, or meditation, it is possible to start thinking positively. I still have SA, but I am getting better and I am starting to realize that no one else, but myself can change my perception of the world.

If you keep blaming others for your problems, you will die alone, with SA, bitter because youve wasted your whole life. Only cowards do that. It is never too late to change. Pills will not help you. Therapist may help you, but if you sucess in theraphy depends only on how much you really want to change, and how much initiative you take.

ColdFury - you panick attacks are real indeed, but only because you let them happen. I think everyone on here has frequent panic attacks, but I also belive that it is possible to conquer them.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

I agree and disagree with some of this.

I do believe that some people have SA for different reasons. For a lot of people-- myself included-- SA is mostly mental, and all in the way you think. I honestly believe that I could get over my SA if I could figure out how to think differently. I don't have panic attacks or agoraphobia. I just have always felt like everyone looks down on me, and that I'm going to make a fool of myself. I cannot stand negative critisism at all.

I also believe that it is ignorant to think that everybody has SA because of the way they think. There are some hardcore cases where it can't possibly be all in the mind. 

It's also ignorant to say that pills can't help you. This messageboard alone has shown plenty of proof that medication can go a long way in helping people with SA. I haven't had any experience with meds, but I do admit that I think some of the positive results that people get are a placebo effect. Even still, there are people here that have gone from being completely housebound to making a complete turn around with the help of meds. I wouldn't knock 'em.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

Njodis said:


> I agree and disagree with some of this.
> 
> I do believe that some people have SA for different reasons. For a lot of people-- myself included-- SA is mostly mental, and all in the way you think. I honestly believe that I could get over my SA if I could figure out how to think differently. I don't have panic attacks or agoraphobia. I just have always felt like everyone looks down on me, and that I'm going to make a fool of myself. I cannot stand negative critisism at all.
> 
> ...


Pills are a quick fix. They have many side effects, and they almost never work. Not only do I have an aunt that is bipolar and her meds made her suicidal(shes tried many different pills, and none work) but also heard about many other people that have been victims of pills. On top of that they are expensive, and even if they work because of a placebo effect, you are stuck taking them for the rest of your life.


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## Disintegrate (Jun 28, 2006)

I think that it is a shame that people post under the guise of being "positive" when their main objective really seems to be to take out their frustrations on people that they consider to be complainers. Seems like fairly negative thing to do, really.

Statements such as "There is nothing wrong with anyboby that considers themself as an SAer" are ignorant and unhelpful, IMO. I mean, if you have SA, I think that right there is saying that something is wrong. It doesn't mean that it can't be helped, improved, or changed, but there is something wrong.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

Johnny1234 said:


> Njodis said:
> 
> 
> > I agree and disagree with some of this.
> ...


Assuming shiznit is 100% correct, you won't need to be on pills the rest of your life because a person who follows shiznit's method while using meds to assist overcoming SA will not depend on meds anymore because there is no SA to treat at that point. Also consider threads like http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/for ... hp?t=57472 where some people called Lexapro effective. There were some people that experienced side effect, and some that did not. But that is ok. Do what works. It is somewhat cynical to ignore something that is specifically designed to help people.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



Disintegrate said:


> I think that it is a shame that people post under the guise of being "positive" when their main objective really seems to be to take out their frustrations on people that they consider to be complainers. Seems like fairly negative thing to do, really.
> 
> Statements such as "There is nothing wrong with anyboby that considers themself as an SAer" are ignorant and unhelpful, IMO. I mean, if you have SA, I think that right there is saying that something is wrong. It doesn't mean that it can't be helped, improved, or changed, but there is something wrong.


No one s saying that there is nothing wrong with us, SAars. I am just trying to say that we have to change our negative perception of the world and start thinking positively, to cure ourselves.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



ColdFury said:


> Right, I guess I'm just imagining my panic attacks, and my OCD, and my GAD and everything else.


I know. It's like, "Crap my leg is broken. Oh, I only think it's broken. Nope, I'm fine." And then, "Crap I have a mental illness. Oh, I only think I have a mental illness. Nope, I'm fine." And so on: "Crap I'm mentally retarded..."


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

> I think that it is a shame that people post under the guise of being "positive" when their main objective really seems to be to take out their frustrations on people that they consider to be complainers. Seems like fairly negative thing to do, really.
> 
> Statements such as "There is nothing wrong with anyboby that considers themself as an SAer" are ignorant and unhelpful, IMO. I mean, if you have SA, I think that right there is saying that something is wrong. It doesn't mean that it can't be helped, improved, or changed, but there is something wrong.


I agree.


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

> I do believe that some people have SA for different reasons. For a lot of people-- myself included-- SA is mostly mental, and all in the way you think. I honestly believe that I could get over my SA if I could figure out how to think differently. I don't have panic attacks or agoraphobia. I just have always felt like everyone looks down on me, and that I'm going to make a fool of myself. I cannot stand negative critisism at all.


Yes. Mine's the opposite in that I felt fear first which caused me to negatively evaluate myself later on.



> I know. It's like, "Crap my leg is broken. Oh, I only think it's broken. Nope, I'm fine." And then, "Crap I have a mental illness. Oh, I only think I have a mental illness. Nope, I'm fine." And so on: "Crap I'm mentally retarded..."


Hahaha


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

> We have SA, because we allow ourselves to think that we have SA.


I've had SA since I was about 4 years old (my earliest memory). I had no clue about SA or mental disorders. Hell I wasn't even in school yet. Looking back now, I can see the SA signs that I exhibited, but at the time I had no clue that what I was doing or feeling wasn't normal. Even though I didn't know that I was not okay, I still felt extremely distressed. So your statement doesn't make any sense with my experience.



> Yes, it is our fault that we have SA, because we have a negative perception of reality.


It is not our fault we have SA. The negative perception of reality came from constant criticisms, rejection, and looks of disapproval from people around us growing up based on how we anxiously interacted with others. It would be hard not to grow up with a negative perception of reality if everywhere you went and everyone you met caused you to feel intense fear. Those negative feelings and thoughts about ourselves became so ingrained that it just became an automatic habit. I do believe that it is our responsibility now, since we know better, to get help for ourselves. The origins of SA is not our fault though. None of us CHOSE this.



> WE CAN ALL CHANGE OUR MINDSET, AND BE FREE OF SA


Yes. That's where cbt specialized for social anxiety with a knowledgeable and capable doctor comes into play. However, it's not as simple and easy as you guys make it out to be, especially if you have had severe SA your whole life. We can all overcome SA but it takes time, patience, and hard work. It's not easy to change your thoughts, perceptions, beliefs, actions, and feelings, but it can be done.



> If you keep blaming others for your problems, you will die alone, with SA, bitter because youve wasted your whole life


Blaming others doesn't solve anything but neither does blaming yourself, especially if you're not the one to blame. Like I said before blaming yourself (beating yourself up) never helps anyone. All it does is prolong and worsen the situation.



> ColdFury - you panick attacks are real indeed, but only because you let them happen.


Panic attacks are not a light switch you can just turn on and off whenever you feel like it. Who would consciously choose to have a panic attack? You can overcome them with appropriate therapy but it takes time.


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## Qolselanu (Feb 15, 2006)

Thank you tuna for developing tangible and useful post content.


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## justlistening (Dec 4, 2006)

I don't think people get born with a bad form of any anxiety. So yeah I believe it's to some point a mental thing. Like the hysteric reaction of a mother who causes the child arachnophobia, hysteric kids at school that will make you even more shy and anxious around them.

But you can't just change yourself from an introvert into an extrovert. I know I'll never be an outgoing person, but that's OK I was born as a quiet and shy kid. I just need to find the confidence again to be quiet around people and saying only the things I feel like saying, instead of feeling the need to talk as much as they do.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



> It is not our fault we have SA. The negative perception of reality came from constant criticisms, rejection, and looks of disapproval from people around us growing up based on how we anxiously interacted with others. It would be hard not to grow up with a negative perception of reality if everywhere you went and everyone you met caused you to feel intense fear. Those negative feelings and thoughts about ourselves became so ingrained that it just became an automatic habit. I do believe that it is our responsibility now, since we know better, to get help for ourselves. The origins of SA is not our fault though. None of us CHOSE this.


Thats where you are wrong. You only think that people constantly criticize you, reject you, and disapprove of you. Aight Ill agree that some people here have bene bullied, but more often then not we tend to exgarate or even imagine that others look down upon us. I tried talking to some people that I thought that i was weird, and you know what I found out? They think you are quiet, but they dont care. Its Cool. Even some people that used to make fun of me freshman year, have a joke/talk with me, once in a while. People are only what you imagine them to be.



> Yes. That's where cbt specialized for social anxiety with a knowledgeable and capable doctor comes into play. However, it's not as simple and easy as you guys make it out to be, especially if you have had severe SA your whole life. We can all overcome SA but it takes time, patience, and hard work. It's not easy to change your thoughts, perceptions, beliefs, actions, and feelings, but it can be done.


I agree that it may not be easy, but it is also not as hard as everyone in this thread is making it out to be. Maybe some of you should stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and try to make an effort, instead of posting in the frustration forums on how you are trying to go to a doctor, but you cant find the strength to do it.

Just in case you are wondering, I have SA, but I have realized that feeling sorry for yourself will not help you with anything. You have to take the iniative, and get yourself help.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

::Nevermind, no point, I'm too tired::


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

> Thats where you are wrong. You only think that people constantly criticize you, reject you, and disapprove of you.


If someone is telling me to my face "You're boring", "I don't like you", "I don't want to hang around you", "You're stupid", the message is pretty loud and clear. I'm not imagining any of that. But then again, you also believe that SA is a figment of our wild and crazy imaginations so I'm not surprised. I guess we're all just super creative people then?

You also totally ignored the part where I said if you grow up FEELING intense fear around everyone and in every social situation, no matter what people are actually saying to you or you think they're saying about you, it would be hard for someone to grow up with a positive outlook on life. It's not an excuse, but an explanation. There is a difference.

[/quote]Just in case you are wondering, I have SA, but I have realized that feeling sorry for yourself will not help you with anything. You have to take the iniative, and get yourself help.


> Yes, but the original post wasn't even about that. They said there is no such thing as SA so no need for therapy. If someone is going to try and tell me that everything I'm feeling and thinking is just my silly imagination, that's pretty condescending. They don't know what I'm thinking and feeling. They don't know what I've been through so they have no clue. Our feelings and thoughts are irrational but that doesn't make them any less strong or real. If you really want to help someone, you do it with positive reinforcement and encouragement, NOT in a condescending tone fueled with anger, negativity, frustration, and blame.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you have SA and were able to go to a doctor. Good for you. Just because you were able to do it, doesn't mean that everyone else should be able to do it too. There are different intensities of SA mixed in with other disorders, financial issues, and even availability of qualified docs nearby that makes it more complicated.
> 
> It is frustrating to hear people put themselves down all the time but all you can do is give them some _helpful_ advice and move on. You have no control over other people's actions so don't worry about it. Just accept that some people are not ready to get help right now.


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## Strength (Aug 12, 2006)

As a child I don't think I had a choice. But as an adult, I now fully take responsibility towards what I do and how I think from here on out. It's not necesarily fair that I have this battle that other people don't, but it is what it is. There's no use whining about it.


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



tuna said:


> > Thats where you are wrong. You only think that people constantly criticize you, reject you, and disapprove of you.
> 
> 
> If someone is telling me to my face "You're boring", "I don't like you", "I don't want to hang around you", "You're stupid", the message is pretty loud and clear. I'm not imagining any of that. But then again, you also believe that SA is a figment of our wild and crazy imaginations so I'm not surprised. I guess we're all just super creative people then?
> ...


First of all, thank you Strength for saying that, you made my day. As for Tuna: No I have not gone to a doctor, and I dont plan to, because I believe that I can fight SA on my own. But you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. I have no idea what you have been through?:fall. Do you honestly think that you are in some way special, or that your condition is worse then mine, or anyone's for that matter? I should be saying the same thing, yet i am out there trying to get help by reading books about SA and taking control of life. You can sit in front of your pc all the damn time you want, and feel sorry for yourself, but it will not help you at all. I just hope that one day you realize that you are capale of getting better.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> I should be saying the same thing, yet i am out there trying to get help by reading books about SA and taking control of life. You can sit in front of your pc all the damn time you want, and feel sorry for yourself, but it will not help you at all. I just hope that one day you realize that you are capale of getting better.


Its nice to see you developed mind reading powers where from your computer you can determine what people are "feeling sorry for themselves" and what people are doing things for their SA.

Did it ever occur to you that many people here are doing things for their SA, and they still have problems, so they're posting about it?


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## Johnny1234 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



ColdFury said:


> > I should be saying the same thing, yet i am out there trying to get help by reading books about SA and taking control of life. You can sit in front of your pc all the damn time you want, and feel sorry for yourself, but it will not help you at all. I just hope that one day you realize that you are capale of getting better.
> 
> 
> Its nice to see you developed mind reading powers where from your computer you can determine what people are "feeling sorry for themselves" and what people are doing things for their SA.
> ...


I was specifically referring to Tuna, and judged him by his posts.


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## tuna (Jun 25, 2006)

That's just silly Johnny. When did I ever say or express that I felt sorry for myself? You shouldn't assume things and actually read what others write. But I should probably tell myself that since I assumed with all your talk that you had gone to see a doc. I've already wrote in this thread that I've come a long way. I used to be a very depressed, negative person but through therapy I don't have depression anymore and have become a much more positive person. More than I thought I would ever become. 

I never said people should feel sorry for themselves. Actually we all agree that dwelling on self-pity is not good for SA. The difference is that you want to express your frustration about these people and I'm just saying I understand the position they're in because I used to be there. I was EXPLAINING to you why most of us develop SA and have a negative outlook on life. I didn't say we should dwell on self-pity because of those reasons though. I never said we should just give up and wallow in self-pity. I have repeatedly said, throughout this whole thread, that people can change and overcome SA. That doesn't sound negative and whiny to me, but that's just me. I also find it ironic that you say you're tired of hearing people complain and not take action but aren't you doing the same thing complaining about these people instead of just ignoring them?

I never said I was special or better than anyone. It's just common sense to know that everyone is different and are in different situations.

I have done alot for my SA. I've been in three groups with a fourth group coming up, seen a doc one-on-one for individual cbt, and have tried several medications. I've purchased and listened to Dr. R's tapes several times now and implement his strategies in my daily life. So no I don't just sit behind the computer.

Anyways the original post was saying that if we say and believe that we don't have SA, then we won't have SA. I disagreed with that and gave my reasons why.

Btw, I'm a female. I wonder why people assume I'm a guy?


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## HemisD (Jan 14, 2007)

I agree with Tuna all the way. We have to take SA by the chokehold. Its defintely worked for me and if it dosent, then im not trying hard enough. although I have joined this forum I dont fell like I belong to the majority vibe on these forums. I think the first step to recovery of SAD (which is possible In any case, I dont care what Anyone says) is to find out what you want in Life. Beyond all the failed social bc and interactions and uncomfortable situations, and regrets. What do we want out of Life. Do we want to be financially succesful? be faithful to our god, or gods or holy scriptures? Do we want to be a caring mother and start a family? Do we want to be a musician? Do we want to travel and discover new cultures, or do we want to paint or write books? or mabe even something more unconventional and deeper, whatever it is, we have to make the time, find the discipline to find out what we want out of Life. Once we have found that one thing, that one purpose in Life we should invest everything we have and everything else will fall into place and when negativity hits us we'll just ignore it, cos we ll know exactly what we want to achieve, and everything else wont matter.
I believe that thats the only perspective, yet again, its only my personal perspective...


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## HemisD (Jan 14, 2007)

mabe Im only speaking for myself now, but mabe this will help, that we cant have as a purpose being good in everyones books, or being good to people, through direct contact. Our purpose can never be to become social butterflies. I personally think, that we SAD has happened to us for a reason. It will either break us or make us. If it decides to make us we'll have so much potential and because we know so many wrongs, once well have overcome them we ll know all the rights. We cant have as a purpose to be normal or to be social. We have to get over that! The Lunchlady asks us whether we want chicken or beef and we choose potato salad. Thats the analogy, chosing to be more social, or being a sociable person is like chosing potato salad over Beef or chicken, when we all know that the potato salad gets served with the meats.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

Sometimes it takes a tragedy to put things in perspective. Sorry for your loss, shiznit.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



tuna said:


> It is frustrating to hear people put themselves down all the time but all you can do is give them some _helpful_ advice and move on. You have no control over other people's actions so don't worry about it. Just accept that some people are not ready to get help right now.


 :agree . Tuna's been demonstrating very clear and unmuddied thinking.


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## GURLWONDER (Oct 1, 2004)

I agree with the OP. My grandmother, who lives in fear (and from whose side of the family I believe that my SA comes from), is down at the rehab hospital recovering from a stroke. This is her second one.

When I think of all the things that she's never done in life, or how she's allowed fear to get in the way of doing things, like driving a car, and now she's laid up after being taken down by a blood clot. 

I've come to realize in the past 10 years, since high school, that life is too short and too painful to live in fear. Especially fear of what somebody thinks about me. I spent so many years thinking that people were always thinking about me only to realize that I wasn't that special for someone to be thinking about all the time.

My SA has caused me to become selfish and think that the world must revolve around me. 

I gonna start taking my happiness and good things where I can get them.


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## bigchris407 (Dec 20, 2006)

I agree with the original post to an extent. I am currently trying to start living this way but it's only been about a week so I can't say I'm happy happy joy joy yet. I have had enough experiences with people to believe from vast evidence that people will believe what you believe you are. I say that b/c I see people acting so fake and dishonest (although most people are too blind to see it) Good evening Mr. Bush... and everyone seems to love them or at least treat them with respect. When the number one show in America is American Idol, the very essence of masks and false personas.


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## fallingdownonmyface (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*

I did not bother reading through page 3, but I to share. First off, I read shiznits post and thought it was wonderful. I even referenced it in another one of my posts, having not read all the way through. I still agree it is great post, and I commend you for having overcome anxiety in spite of difficult times. But.....The change your thinking part....not THAT easy. For some people yes, for some people no. This is where I take a leap of faith and stand firm in my belief that one can change theirlife for the better where they are satisfied with it. But will it happen at whim? No way. Fact is some people just have more motivation than others. I go on with Tuna's post whcih capture those that are struggling and at the same time dealing with the pressure of simply chaniging their "thinking" which requires no difficulties whatsoever...And as for what came first, the thought or the feeling...this can never be answered. Brings up a whole nother topic of freewill which is a puzzle that won't ever be solved. It is better to focus on how we can better take control over these thoughts and feelings.



tuna said:


> If someone is telling me to my face "You're boring", "I don't like you", "I don't want to hang around you", "You're stupid", the message is pretty loud and clear. I'm not imagining any of that. But then again, you also believe that SA is a figment of our wild and crazy imaginations so I'm not surprised. I guess we're all just super creative people then?


Yea yea...I feel your pain. It's dumb. We have to deal with these feelings we were born with. Tuna, you aren't imagining all of this,and right now you have reason to feel down. Social rejection can really hurt and there are studies down that confirm this. But why is it that person A put in the same situation as person B when person C tells both A and B that they will get no where in life, that only person 'A' becomes emotionally hurt. And eventually falls into a cycle of self defeat? It is dumb to say that person A is doing all this on purpose. Person A was likely born more vulnerable to having panic attacks or they have reached their threshold after numerous bad experiences and now they are currently out of control. Person B may have been confident all their live.



> You also totally ignored the part where I said if you grow up FEELING intense fear around everyone and in every social situation, no matter what people are actually saying to you or you think they're saying about you, it would be hard for someone to grow up with a positive outlook on life. It's not an excuse, but an explanation. There is a difference.


 Exactly, we are going to have to work MUCH harder than those who were raised in environments that happened to work in the best of our interests by chance, just to find meaning in relationships, meeting new people, blah blah blah..



> Yes, but the original post wasn't even about that. They said there is no such thing as SA so no need for therapy. If someone is going to try and tell me that everything I'm feeling and thinking is just my silly imagination, that's pretty condescending. They don't know what I'm thinking and feeling. They don't know what I've been through so they have no clue. Our feelings and thoughts are irrational but that doesn't make them any less strong or real. If you really want to help someone, you do it with positive reinforcement and encouragement, NOT in a condescending tone fueled with anger, negativity, frustration, and blame.


 True..S.A is real and it exists. There have been times where I ran "positive self talk" through my head, that I would perform well at this social function and it didn't go too well. In fact it made me do worse. There are clearly no clear written rules as to HOW and WHAT exactly to think,say,and do, that will PREVENT one from having SA and better controlling their emotions. Our feelings our real obviously because they affect us, and we have to fight them because they are irrational. complete buoll****. Why should I feel anxious when I'm around a group of civilized people? Why should I feel anxious around my mother in law who does not like me? It is not like she is going to eat me is it? There is no real threat, and that is fact. The anxiuous, depressed moments seem too real when we are in them. SOmehow we must find a way out.



> It doesn't matter if you have SA and were able to go to a doctor. Good for you. Just because you were able to do it, doesn't mean that everyone else should be able to do it too. There are different intensities of SA mixed in with other disorders, financial issues, and even availability of qualified docs nearby that makes it more complicated.


 The brain itself is very complex and whoever denies human nature...well is the modern day and age relic scientologist. This is where meds come in, but some people actually fight their disorder head on without any aid. I know the person who is battling a mood disorder or phobia has not given up, they are just overwhelmed with how to treat thsi thing as it affects every thing in life. They need guidance, and this place is a good place to start.



> It is frustrating to hear people put themselves down all the time but all you can do is give them some _helpful_ advice and move on. You have no control over other people's actions so don't worry about it. Just accept that some people are not ready to get help right now.


Stay in there ..sooner or later hopefully you will get that motivation in you that has had enough of it. It doesn't matter how old you are, once you over come your fear, I'm sure it willbe a blissful experience. Just stay there, don't harm yourself.

All in all...no we are not going to come out of s.a that easily. many people on this board have family histories of various mental disorders/illnesses. The brain is an organ that was codified by DNA from our ancestors. Some of our parents or their parents or their parents or the monkeys parents, happened to pass us down a combination of genes that really are not doing us any good. If the condition is intense and serious, we have various drugs to play around with. We all know what to do, it is just a matter of when we feel we have the energy and motivation to do it. We got to just get to know ourselves better. Bring out all your fears on paper or something...start the battle. Don't ever feel discouraged that some people are just more natural in their abilities that you would like to have. They just happened to get it. Nothing more nothing less. Some of them worked hard to imrpove and conquer their fears, and it is people like these we can learn from. It will in the end come down to the person to realize where there real threshold for what they actually can get done and overcome is. Sometimes it can be staring you right in the eye, and other times it is hidden deep. I say find your inner self. Rest and relax now, but know that sooner or later you are going to have to begin making the changes you want to see in life. If people humilate you in the process, fkck them. You are working on yourself to better yourself and the end result will be much a much more lovely life. No one's gonna do all the work. All they can do is guide you to the ring. We throw our punches for ourselves.


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## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

tuna said:


> All I know is that I felt intense fear around people at a very early age. I didn't think there was something wrong with me for those feelings to come up. I had those FEELINGS FIRST. As I got older and realized that I didn't behave like my peers in social situations that's when I knew there was something wrong. My negative thoughts came about because of feeling fear. Not the other way around.


I actually learned the opposite in CBT: a thought always comes first, and an emotion follows. Emotions don't come out of the blue, even though it seems that way, when fear comes suddenly.

CBT has a "triangle" concept (Thought, Emotion, Behavior)

Thought leads to Emotion (fear)
Emotion leads to Behavior (avoidance)
Behavior leads to more Thoughts 
which leads to more Emotions (more fear and guilt over avoidance)

It's a nasty cycle. One goal of CBT is to change our thoughts, by practicing thought modification. It's believed when we gain control of our thoughts, the emotions will follow suit, and as a result, our behavior will change (less avoidance).

That doesn't mean you "chose" it when you were 5, and doesn't mean it's your fault. Maybe thoughts of insecurity triggered your fear around others when you were a kid...maybe you felt unsafe with new people, or being separated from your mom, but I'm just making a guess. I doubt anyone's born with a full-blown anxiety disorder. I think individuals are born with certain traits (like caution), and the feedback we get, starting from birth, can magnify some traits and subdue other traits. For SAers, our inclination to fear was obviously magnified, magnified from feedback, criticism, and experiences we've had in our lives. Fortunately, it's possible to change our thinking patterns, and function well in the world.

My therapist said this to me, "There's nothing wrong with your hardware (brain), you just have a bug in your software (thinking)."


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## MissMurder (Jan 27, 2007)

*Re: re: Reality for those who want amazing lifestyles*



whiteclouds said:


> I actually learned the opposite in CBT: a thought always comes first, and an emotion follows. Emotions don't come out of the blue, even though it seems that way, when fear comes suddenly.


So very true!!!


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## GraceLikeRain (Nov 9, 2003)

shiznit said:


> Sad to see peeps respond so depressingly in this forum. Doesnt matter what peeps are going through. Do you really think your life sucks? My only Sister killed herself on the 27th of December, 2006. Whats worse that that?


I'm staying out of the argument...
I just want to say that I am very sorry to hear about your sister :hug


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## adventurer (Nov 12, 2006)

I don't think its my fault for getting S.A., but I agree that most of us have the power to take back our lives. I was raised differently from most kids, so I didn't understand many things, but now I definitely have the power to take back my life. The progress has been slow, but anything is better than just accepting things the way they are. If I would have just given up I wouldn't now have a job and be going to college. I still don't have a girlfriend, am the worst person I know at public speaking, and can't make new friends. I'm still going to keep fighting SA though, its better than the alternative

On my job and at college I've seen people who have it worse than me(I'm not going to say how, because I don't want to make fun of anyone), but manage to lead a normal life or have the courage to continue on


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