# Why don't schools teach about money !



## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Ever since the economy went to dust at the start of the pandemic, I've been trying to educate myself on the world of finance. But its incredibly frustrating ! I feel like a kindergarten student trying to learn calculus.

And it got me wondering why is this so hard to learn....but then I remembered....we weren't taught anything about this in school !

I work in the field of medicine;

And before you say "well he is a Doctor so he should just know stuff" ....this isn't the world of Batman, or a Hollywood movie where having a particular social status means automatically means knowledge of all things from medicine to kung fu....I hate it when ppl assume because of my job I should be able to quote shakespeare, and name japanese cuisine.


....anyway ...continuing....most patients have at least a basic understanding of the human body because human biology is taught as a *mandatory* class whether you are a science student, business student or an art student.

Yet personal finances, loans, business tactics, how to negotiate, NON of this is taught as a mandatory subject in school despite the fact that ....understanding money is one of the most basic parts of adult life !

Im not one for conspiracy theories, but I really can't help but wonder if this isn't purposefully done to keep people financially dependent.


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Probably not a bad idea. I was always hopeless with money - I've only gotten better since my wife kicked me out and I decided I'd better try and keep some of it.

My son's about your age - he knows more than anyone else I know about it. Superannuation, shares, taxes - the works. And he's a programmer, not into finance. He just made it his business to find out about it. That boy will always have money.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

I just...find it so frustrating.....that by the time I would have paid off my student loans...gone back to study...become a specialist and "maybe" start making real money....I will be a middle aged man ! Non of the things I want to enjoy now would matter, because I would be to old to do it ! I want to have a home gym in my house....but what if by the time I can afford to build a house and put in a home gym.. Im already pushing 50, if it takes me 50 years to afford a home gym, then I might as well give up on that dream.

Im sorry if this makes me sound greedy or selfish...but I mean....I watched my parents get older. My mom loves to travel...my dad always said he wanted to take her on a cruise ship....but guess what...now that my parents are both retired and finished paying the house loan.....my Mom has severe Parkinson's and they are both too sick to do any of the things they planned to do in retirement !


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

harrison said:


> Probably not a bad idea. I was always hopeless with money - I've only gotten better since my wife kicked me out and I decided I'd better try and keep some of it.
> 
> My son's about your age - he knows more than anyone else I know about it. Superannuation, shares, taxes - the works. And he's a programmer, not into finance. He just made it his business to find out about it. That boy will always have money.


Everytime I try to think of a money making idea outside of my job as a Doctor....I draw a huge blank.
I see people with side hustles all the time....and I just can't figure out how they do it !

Hell....I can't even sell the used tires off girlfriend's car.


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

VIncymon said:


> I just...find it so frustrating.....that by the time I would have paid off my student loans...gone back to study...become a specialist and "maybe" start making real money....I will be a middle aged man ! Non of the things I want to enjoy now would matter, because I would be to old to do it ! I want to have a home gym in my house....but what if by the time I can afford to build a house and put in a home gym.. Im already pushing 50, if it takes me 50 years to afford a home gym, then I might as well give up on that dream.
> 
> Im sorry if this makes me sound greedy or selfish...but I mean....I watched my parents get older. My mom loves to travel...my dad always said he wanted to take her on a cruise ship....but guess what...now that my parents are both retired and finished paying the house loan.....my Mom has severe Parkinson's and they are both too sick to do any of the things they planned to do in retirement !


It doesn't make you sound greedy at all - and who cares if it does? Definitely not me. 

I love money - I just wish I hadn't spent so much of it in the past. The trick is knowing how to keep some of it. Self restraint - not one of my strong points I'm afraid. And definitely not when I'm manic.

My son is very different to me - he can put limits on himself in the short term because he looks at the bigger picture. I never did that - always just blew it and had fun. My wife is the sensible one. (That's why she has the nice house - and I don't. )


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

VIncymon said:


> Everytime I try to think of a money making idea outside of my job as a Doctor....I draw a huge blank.
> I see people with side hustles all the time....and I just can't figure out how they do it !
> 
> Hell....I can't even sell the used tires off girlfriend's car.


You live in the Carribean right? Do they have superannuation there? Apparently my son puts as much as possible into his super fund - up to the limit that it's tax free. (something like that anyway - I get confused when he starts talking about all this stuff)

Do you have an interest you could make money from? I sell rare books online - or I did until all this virus business came along. Maybe something online? So many different things some people seem to have going on nowadays.


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

or loss

the rate, when, how one loses everything gained

everything was a fake perk

nothing lasts

everything's a lie


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

VIncymon said:


> Im sorry if this makes me sound greedy or selfish...but I mean....I watched my parents get older. My mom loves to travel...my dad always said he wanted to take her on a cruise ship....*but guess what...now that my parents are both retired and finished paying the house loan.....my Mom has severe Parkinson's and they are both too sick to do any of the things they planned to do in retirement *!


I'm sorry to hear that btw - you often hear stories like that and it's very sad. Shame they can't go on a little holiday somewhere.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

Governments want the majority of people to stumble into huge debt before they can figure finances out for themselves & then by the time they understand what happened, it's too late & they have to spend the rest of their lives running to pay it off, that's how most economy's work.


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## rabidfoxes (Apr 17, 2016)

I see two different things going on here...

1) You think basic financial literacy should be taught at school (i.e. personal finance). I agree and in the U.K. Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert has been campaigning for that for ages.
2) You want knowledge to earn money (i.e. investment income). That's not taught probably because you need money to invest in the first place (school leavers are not generally rich) and it can be a form of gambling (there are losses).


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

blue2 said:


> Governments want the majority of people to stumble into huge debt before they can figure finances out for themselves & then by the time they understand what happened, it's too late & they have to spend the rest of their lives running to pay it off, that's how most economy's work.


I dont want to be one of those people. I want to enjoy life while I am young and able. The whole thing about, go to school get. Job. Save for retirement *does not work*

Heck, I cant even invite most of my family to my own wedding...and I still have no idea if or how...we can have a honeymoon. Hollywood lied to us. The education system lied to us.

Its not enough to just have a job. You have to know how to make a side hustle....but formal education doesn't teach that


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

Yep schools don't teach many things we need to know. Dave Ramsey taught me a lot.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

a lot of the stuff they teach in school isnt useful but i think its good to have a basic understanding about science and math and history and language. some countries place a lot of emphasis on grades from a young age although thats changing now since people realise it doesnt really matter at that point.

but its universities that really waste your time. i guess it worked before but they need to really revise their curriculums now that things have changed. more hands on experience type modules instead of classes and trying to memorise textbooks and lecture notes that people forget by summer. currently you have to be proactive to get these experiences but it would be nice and much more useful if the universities helped you along or set it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CNikki (Aug 9, 2013)

Kind of where I think removing vocational and technical courses and replacing them with some of the curriculum to which the majority would never apply throughout their life (geometry, calculus, etc.) had done a great disservice to our system. Keeping children back a year or subject for courses would drain out taxpayer dollars all the while the system continuously removes after school activities due to the deficit. Would've reaped quite a bit if I had not the subjects I still didn't put to use while in higher education.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

The problem is that a lot of that stuff should be taught by parents. Education system can't be held responsible for doing all the parenting. I'd say a very, very small percentage of people have any business being parents. I'd counter 'why can't schools teach xyz' with 'why can't parents teach xyz'.


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## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

i'm afraid school was just somewhere to put me. and teach me random facts to keep me busy. and pretend like i was ok since i managed to learn those facts. while ignoring everything that was wrong with me. in theory school should be there to fill in the failings of the parents. but no, its just a holding centre so the parents can go to work or just so they can dilute the blame for their neglect.

i believe some people get taught things from their parents and are involved in their extended family and community and also their peers at school, etc. all this should add up to something. for those that got none of that... this is not healthy. you are a victim of neglect.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

i wish i would of learned something about credit scores in high school


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## CNikki (Aug 9, 2013)

The ones who are suffering the most out of it are children from impoverished households whose parents cannot afford tutors or have their child attend programs that can help for them to learn and gain skills outside from school. Studies have even shown that preschool is not making that great of a difference for children to meet up with their more well-off peers who have parents and resources to encourage their children to learn faster. Also have to think about the fact that these parents might not be there because they have to work two jobs in order to keep a roof over the child's head. I say it's a mix of both schools and the home. Sadly the notion that parents are always correct tends to come from a culture that embraces individuality due such luxury, and in turn schools generally cave in because it's an overall losing battle to work together with parents among other administrative control that teachers generally have minimal control over. 

Not sure how this relates to the initial subject, but figured to respond because of the subject brought up that school cannot be held accountable for everything, which I do agree. But many other factors are involved and thus it does enable the perpetuation of demographics of children to repeat the same cycles as their parents, including financially. Education cannot bridge that gap but it can also improve in some areas to help prevent the possibility.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

mt moyt said:


> a lot of the stuff they teach in school isnt useful but i think its good to have a basic understanding about science and math and history and language. some countries place a lot of emphasis on grades from a young age although thats changing now since people realise it doesnt really matter at that point.
> 
> but its universities that really waste your time. i guess it worked before but they need to really revise their curriculums now that things have changed. more hands on experience type modules instead of classes and trying to memorise textbooks and lecture notes that people forget by summer. currently you have to be proactive to get these experiences but it would be nice and much more useful if the universities helped you along or set it up.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well it worked before because very few people went to university. After they started encouraging almost everyone to go it devalued higher education. Basically credential inflation.

Here's one example from wikipedia:



> For instance, in the late 1980s, a bachelor's degree was the standard qualification to enter the profession of physical therapy.[41] By the 1990s, a master's degree was expected. Today, a doctorate is becoming the norm.


It's also possible to be overqualified though depending on the job.



andy1984 said:


> i'm afraid school was just somewhere to put me. and teach me random facts to keep me busy. and pretend like i was ok since i managed to learn those facts. while ignoring everything that was wrong with me. in theory school should be there to fill in the failings of the parents. but no, its just a holding centre so the parents can go to work or just so they can dilute the blame for their neglect.
> 
> i believe some people get taught things from their parents and are involved in their extended family and community and also their peers at school, etc. all this should add up to something. for those that got none of that... this is not healthy. you are a victim of neglect.


Yeah I agree, it's also a bit comparable to a prison that you leave at the end of the day.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

They do have personal finance courses where they teach what you're talking about. (My high school I took 2 personal finance courses, and an accounting course covered some personal finance topics as well). 

The problem is they're electives & most people decide to take Art or Gender Studies as electives instead.

Reason they're not required is probably because they figure students are smart enough to take practical classes on their own. ( it turns out, a lot of them aren't.)


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Well it worked before because very few people went to university. After they started encouraging almost everyone to go it devalued higher education. Basically credential inflation.
> 
> Here's one example from wikipedia:
> 
> ...


But free college for everyone, right? Talk about something that would totally wreck the system even more.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

wmu'14 said:


> But free college for everyone, right? Talk about something that would totally wreck the system even more.


Education should be more widely accessible because it's useful in itself and I'm sure it works well/better in various European countries that have free university. The economic system is completely broken, unsustainable, but increasing numbers of people are realising that.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Education should be more widely accessible because it's useful in itself and I'm sure it works well/better in various European countries that have free university. The economic system is completely broken, unsustainable, but increasing numbers of people are realising that.


For sure the system is broken, but here what made it broken was increasing the accessibility to it.

I think the way to fix it is for colleges to cut a bunch of their overhead & useless degrees & offer & emphasize practical degrees & career availability after students graduate.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Even if everyone majored in computer science, accounting, engineering, or nursing that wouldn't create any more jobs. The number of jobs would remain the same, just those fields would be even more competitive. 

I don't know if graduates who are unemployed or underemployed would be any happier if their degree was in business instead of sociology.


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## mt moyt (Jul 29, 2015)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Well it worked before because very few people went to university. After they started encouraging almost everyone to go it devalued higher education. Basically credential inflation.
> 
> Here's one example from wikipedia:
> 
> ...


i was thinking about further education and i think with a couple years of experience and a masters would actually help with getting a decent job...i think.

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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

cause they dont really care about us. 



I try not to think too hard about my wasted time in school because it just depresses me.


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)

I see it as one of the things where there's so many grey areas of complexity, that you have to learn with life experiences. 

Same logic with why schools do not teach us how to hook up romantically, how to make friends, how to suck up to others, etc.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

wmu'14 said:


> For sure the system is broken, but here what made it broken was increasing the accessibility to it.
> 
> I think the way to fix it is for colleges to cut a bunch of their overhead & useless degrees & offer & emphasize practical degrees & career availability after students graduate.


It's not that simple there aren't enough of those jobs and automation will continue to eat up a bunch of other jobs. You can find people with stem degrees who struggle to get jobs in their subject areas.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

I think some of the problem w/ these engineers who can't find jobs is it might just not be a good fit for them. Engineering isn't always a job where you just sit at a computer all day. It can be a very business people-person oriented career depending on the position. 


Persephone The Dread said:


> It's not that simple there aren't enough of those jobs and automation will continue to eat up a bunch of other jobs. You can find people with stem degrees who struggle to get jobs in their subject areas.


Increasing accessibility (so even more people have these degrees) makes it worse.


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## wmu'14 (Sep 17, 2010)

Friend partied the hell out of college, didn't care for studying, didn't get good grades (not even B's), didn't earn his teaching certification, demands his student loans be forgiven & that college should be free for everyone (along with everything else).

I have no sympathy for him & have all but severed ties with him. There are many like him unfortunately. I understand there are many who did well in college & struggle with employment, but I'm highly against 'college for all' for precisely the examples of my friend.

In regards to OP, I'm sure there's classes, books, & online resources, in addition to the classes offered in high school students refuse to take.


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## RSxo (Apr 19, 2018)

I see a lot of people complain about this, and it's a fair criticism. But also need to point out that there's so many great resources on the internet to teach ourselves about finance, voting, politics etc. As the internet becomes more important in our lives (allowing this forum to exist, for example!), it's a great resource for learning for things that we don't get from school, home or work


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

RSxo said:


> I see a lot of people complain about this, and it's a fair criticism. But also need to point out that there's so many great resources on the internet to teach ourselves about finance, voting, politics etc. As the internet becomes more important in our lives (allowing this forum to exist, for example!), it's a great resource for learning for things that we don't get from school, home or work [/QUOTEp]
> 
> I've also seen a comment above saying "Its the parents responsibility"
> Well. If I had a kid....I wouldn't be able to teach this either...because I have no idea how it works !
> ...


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Ive seen some of my coworkers at the hospital come to work with random items for sale, like snacks, or car parts or fresh produce. And I often wonder ....how the heck do they get this random stuff to sell ?

And of course like any good businessman, they *never* reveal how they got the items in the first place....its always "I know a guy"

I cant even sell an extra set of tyres ! 
My fiancee bought her car, but the tyres were too small. So she had to replace them (yay, more money spent).

That was 6 months ago...I placed the tyres up on facebook and spoke about it at work. I still haven't got any sale.

I had a roommate in university who said all his cell phones were replaced by selling his old phone.

I have an old phone, that I haven't used in 2 years.

When I tried to sell my Dad's old car, I ended up getting much less for it than I initially wanted.

Maybe Im just not a good businessman, maybe I just don't have the salesman gene in me.

(Mood....feeling hopeless)


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

My economics class in high school taught personal budgeting, evaluating loans and other financial decision making. Granted that was 1996 but I'm surprised to hear it's not common.

Fortunately, in this century, you can use the internet to learn anything you want for free. Read about it, watch videos about it, take a free class about it, whatever you need.


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## cmed (Oct 17, 2009)

I didn't pay attention to anything in school so it would've been useless to me anyway. Not like I would've even cared in the first place. At that age my world consisted of video games and music. Everything else was just background noise.

As an adult I've learned everything I need to know about money from people like Dave Ramsey, Peter Schiff, Graham Stephan. In fact, a single YouTube video by a Call Of Duty streamer where he talked about how you can become a millionaire in 22 years is what warmed me up to investing and sent me down that rabbit hole. School never had a chance.


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## D'avjo (Sep 23, 2018)

might have been said, but from this year onwards, the tories have made religious studies mandatory gcse along with maths and english, and one or two others...I have no idea why.


Kids have to throw in some valuable hrs at school and studying at home, on ****ing RE now.


RE at school is for lobbing stuff across the room at each other, having the odd fight, trying to entice and then lock the teacher out on the flat roof, and winding him up to a point where he explodes with rage, and then start laughing and cheering. Not for exams.


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## SparklingWater (Jan 16, 2013)

So caveat. I rarely believe conspiracy theories and I try not to be too cynical. But this is a case in which I absolutely am. Tin foil hat time.

I truly suspect at some point it became a purposeful decision to leave finance out of curriculums. Teaching children basic life skills such as finances, cooking, even basic social skills and emotional regulation, **** people need their entire lives to be successful and happy- that's not good for the economy. Pple being broke, reckless with credit cards, buying into the consumerist belief that more, better, faster equals happier. Those are in service of capitalism. You can not manipulate pple's emotions through advertising to get them to buy if they're overall contented and happy. Getting pple into that trap of buying more, overextending themselves on credit, believing this or that thing will make them happy is great for the economy. Things like healthy relationships, deep connections, nature, being active, doing work and hobbies that feel meaningful to you, experiencing things- those things have been shown to truly affect happiness and contentment. Much of that isn't profitable. 

The world, as it is, is based on fear, greed, deep feelings of lack, manipulation and trauma. There are far better ways to help the vast majority of pple live content and happy lives, but 1. change takes time and 2. change is impeded by those deeply fear based, greedy, traumatized individuals who profit off of maintaining the status quo. 

I have many more thoughts on this type of ****, but tin foil hat off for today.


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## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

SparklingWater said:


> So caveat. I rarely believe conspiracy theories and I try not to be too cynical. But this is a case in which I absolutely am. Tin foil hat time.
> 
> I truly suspect at some point it became a purposeful decision to leave finance out of curriculums. Teaching children basic life skills such as finances, cooking, even basic social skills and emotional regulation, **** people need their entire lives to be successful and happy- that's not good for the economy. Pple being broke, reckless with credit cards, buying into the consumerist belief that more, better, faster equals happier. Those are in service of capitalism. You can not manipulate pple's emotions through advertising to get them to buy if they're overall contented and happy. Getting pple into that trap of buying more, overextending themselves on credit, believing this or that thing will make them happy is great for the economy. Things like healthy relationships, deep connections, nature, being active, doing work and hobbies that feel meaningful to you, experiencing things- those things have been shown to truly affect happiness and contentment. Much of that isn't profitable.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree. I feel this is purpusefully ignored. I mean seriously, even art and business students must learn about science. Science is always compulsory. You do not have a choice.
Now tell me....how many people make use of the photosynthesis chemical equation in daily life?

Now don't misquote me. I am a man of science. I am in no means saying science is not important.... rather what I am saying is that if science is a compulsory subject ...why isn't personal finance ?

It's so embarrassing...as a doctor or nurse, most patients you encounter have a basic understanding of the human body, from *grade school science*...yet when the same doctor enters a bank, there is no equivalent grade school training to help the doctor understand how to take a loan.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

D'avjo said:


> might have been said, but from this year onwards, the tories have made religious studies mandatory gcse along with maths and english, and one or two others...I have no idea why.
> 
> Kids have to throw in some valuable hrs at school and studying at home, on ****ing RE now.
> 
> RE at school is for lobbing stuff across the room at each other, having the odd fight, trying to entice and then lock the teacher out on the flat roof, and winding him up to a point where he explodes with rage, and then start laughing and cheering. Not for exams.


Wow not wanting to go off topic but I did not know this what the actual ****. Then again it was mandatory when I was at school too only it was only half a GCSE, so we could basically get away with putting very little work in until the last minute (I actually ended up with a B anyway in the final exam despite getting like E-F or something in the mock exams haha.)

Oh my God they're so gross:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cover-atheism-says-nicky-morgan-a6787951.html



> Both the Church of England and the Board of Deputies of British Jews have welcomed the Department's newest guidance. They said humanism and atheism could be taught in other subjects.


Yeah that makes sense a bit like how homophobia was taught in my maths class back when I was at school lol.


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## SwtSurrender (Nov 24, 2014)

Yeah it's really sad, to me it seems that schools teach just basic stuff and other important stuff like money and socializing should be learned on your own. Which sucks, because they're offering nothing but a one way ticket to homelessness and financial dependency. I guess it's up to our families to show us the door, didn't it happen to anyone else when they turned 18? That should be enough to get you into the path of college and jobs. Sarcasm.


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## D'avjo (Sep 23, 2018)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Wow not wanting to go off topic but I did not know this what the actual ****. Then again it was mandatory when I was at school too only it was only half a GCSE, so we could basically get away with putting very little work in until the last minute (I actually ended up with a B anyway in the final exam despite getting like E-F or something in the mock exams haha.)
> 
> Oh my God they're so gross:
> 
> ...


With the time the kids have missed due to virus, this is one subject they should bin, and let them catch up on some maths !!

My daughter will be starting year errr... well 3rd year at senior school in September, she had to take her options in March of the second year. I'm sure we did ours at the end of the 3rd year.

Some of the subjects they could choose, the kids were like errr what is it?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

D'avjo said:


> With the time the kids have missed due to virus, this is one subject they should bin, and let them catch up on some maths !!
> 
> My daughter will be starting year errr... well 3rd year at senior school in September, she had to take her options in March of the second year. I'm sure we did ours at the end of the 3rd year.
> 
> Some of the subjects they could choose, the kids were like errr what is it?


Yeah we picked subjects at the end of year 9 when I was at school (which was the 3rd year.) There wasn't a lot of choices, way more choices at a-level because I went to a large college but a lot of them were closed off to me because I enrolled late because my parents decided to go on holiday at that time + some subjects I didn't have the right GCSE's to take.


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## Fixxer (Jul 12, 2011)

Schools doesn't teach money because they don't care about the individuals themselves. Schools are a place to take the kids and mold them in what the government wants out of them. Then, you get to work and pay taxes. As long as you pay taxes and aren't a threat for society, the government agencies (school is part of that) are fine with you.


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## EmotionlessThug (Oct 4, 2011)

The main people who created schools and church don't want the citizens to know who is governing them. That would ruin the reality management program.



How can the teacher explain to a child that adults are socially dependent? When the teacher itself don't know how to create their own surgery, interaction, technology, products, house or hunt for their own food? The human race needs the correct social context to know who's governing them. Getting a partner or interaction is humanly impossible, without some sort of program using a selection process/algorithms to determine who should be wife, husband, friend, girlfriend or boyfriend. Impossible! 

I refuse to be mentally enslaved like the rest. I created my mind from scratch. I wouldn't want a wife anyway, because her mind - emotions, logic, meanings, social skills, memory, energy, communication, awareness, sexual impulses are fake and robotic. I need a sane female relationship with human features.


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