# I am 25 and I've never had a girlfriend



## wheretogo (Dec 27, 2008)

*I am 27 and I've never been in a relationship*

How pathetic is that???
I just realized that either I need to push myself out there risk looking desperate and try to get a girlfriend or "continue waiting until the right one comes along" like I've been doing for the past 10 years.

Will I be 30? still single and regret my entire life for being stupid?


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

:hug

There is nothing pathetic about that at all. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Getting yourself out there is a good idea. You won't look desperate. There are plenty of people out there trying to meet others.

Hang in there!!


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

There are a few people on here who are older and in the same situation so you're not alone.


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

yeah you don't have to look far around here to find people in the same boat.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

Yeah I'm gonna be 23 soon so I'm not too far behind you. I don't think the 'waiting game' or 'waiting for the right girl to bump into you' strategy is any good. We need to put ourselves out there, but not in a desperate way.


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## 99x (Oct 4, 2007)

23 here and in the same situation. In my case its the whole mindset of waiting for something to happen and fear of rejection. We just have to assert ourselves and put ourselves out there. WAY easier said than done, but may very well pay off.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

I'm 25 and I've never had a girlfriend either. 

Are you calling me pathetic?


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## SloopjohnB (Jan 1, 2009)

I was in my first relationship this past summer and I was 23. I was a real mess when we got together but it goes to show that even if I am at my lowest point I still got a girl.

I think with more self-confidence building and whatnot that it will get easier to be in more down the road.

It really does take one event and one girl to open your eyes.


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## hyacinth_dragon (Dec 28, 2008)

There's plenty of women in the same boat.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

It's not pathetic. I'm in the same situation, though two years younger. Sometimes it's a little depressing, but oh well. This seems to be a pretty common situation on this forum.


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## jane (Jan 30, 2006)

I'm 24 and have never had a boyfriend. It's increasingly frustrating - many of my girl friends didn't date a lot in their teens, but now that they've reached 22, 23, 24, they've found someone.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

Penny said:


> Getting yourself out there is a good idea. You won't look desperate. There are plenty of people out there trying to meet others.


I have been "getting myself out there" for 5 years and I'm still alone. I do have social anxiety, after all.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I am 26 and never had a girlfriend, either. I'm starting to believe that I will never have one.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

Hey, I'm almost 24 and I've never had a boyfriend. There's a lot of people here in similar situations, which probably isn't very comforting, but true nonetheless.


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## LoneLioness (Nov 16, 2003)

I'm 26 and never had a bf...cept online ones.


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## VCL XI (Jan 19, 2004)

Entering my 26th year of singledom in a few weeks. *W**HOOPIE!!!*


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## dax (Nov 19, 2004)

wheretogo said:


> How pathetic is that???
> I just realized that either I need to push myself out there risk looking desperate and try to get a girlfriend or "continue waiting until the right one comes along" like I've been doing for the past 10 years.
> 
> Will I be 30? still single and regret my entire life for being stupid?


I'm 30- I've had girlfriends in the past but the older I get the harder it seems to meet anyone. You should try to push yourself now rather than waiting. It only gets harder.


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## EagerMinnow84 (Sep 1, 2007)

I just turned 25 and never had a boyfriend and I doubt highly that will change. Joining OKCupid just furthers my belief that guys are not interested in me.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

BeNice said:


> I have been "getting myself out there" for 5 years and I'm still alone. I do have social anxiety, after all.


Oh, and I dont? :roll

Mr or Miss Right isnt going to find you by knocking on your door. Being around others increases one's chances of meeting people and possibly, someone you can hook up with. I am not trying to give some generic advice. How can you meet _anyone_ if you dont try to intermingle?

And, in today's world,intermingling includes SAS, various other message boards, Match.com etc and such. I can remember back in the dark ages when these avenues werent available. That is part of being out there. You think its hard now: I can remember in my earlier years where there wasnt even the internet and I must be sounding like a dinosaur but I had to deal with things without any kind of support AT ALL.

If I were single, I would definately be trying here at SAS. There are hundreds of people here, most of them younger. Its much harder for dinosaurs :b like me at a site that has such a predominantly younger age group.

Finding someone you click with can be a very hard thing SA or not....SA obviously makes it harder...but not impossible. That is all I am trying to say.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

I wasn't really being negative or dismissing what you said, Penny. Sorry if I came off that way. I'm just saying. I'm sure plenty of people here do get out. I probably have more of a social life than some people my age that don't have social anxiety simply because they work so much. 

I don't think I'll find anyone here. I don't really care to for the most part. Besides, even if someone was interested in me they may have lost that interest after reading enough of my posts. 

I was talking to some girl from OkCupid.com that seems pretty cool. She said she wasn't into making online friends and was looking for people to do things with. She wanted me to call. I said I would but still haven't. I don't think I will. She seems too cool for me.. and then I might have to hang out with her friends and all. I'm not into that stuff. 

I think I'll be single for a pretty long time and a lot of other people here will be too. I try to be realistic. It's kind of depressing but in my case I would almost rather have a better living situation before I have a girlfriend. I don't know. I guess that doesn't even matter that much. It's obviously my anxiety and quietness that holds me back with women.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

BeNice said:


> I was talking to some girl from OkCupid.com that seems pretty cool. She said she wasn't into making online friends and was looking for people to do things with. She wanted me to call. I said I would but still haven't. I don't think I will. _She seems too cool for me.. and then I might have to hang out with her friends and all. I'm not into that stuff._


Same boat, but I need to change the thinking on that. 
You may be too cool for her, BeNice. :yes


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## ShyFX (Mar 6, 2006)

Yeah, I'm about to turn 27 and never had a gf. Its my fault though, I go beyond not putting myself out there.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

> Yeah, I'm about to turn 27 and never had a gf. Its my fault though, I go beyond not putting myself out there.


Yeah, that's my problem, too. I've had women who were interested, but I didn't do my part and they became disinterested. It's my social anxiety holding me back.


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

WintersTale said:


> Yeah, that's my problem, too. I've had women who were interested, but I didn't do my part and they became disinterested. It's my social anxiety holding me back.


I seem to have a girl that is interested in me about every 6 months or so, or at least once a year. I just ruin it every time. I think it actually makes me feel worse than if I had asked a girl out and she said no.


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## hypestyle (Nov 12, 2003)

30+ & in the same boat.. ah well.. I find myself getting annoyed when people ask me if i'm seeing anyone (and of course the answer is no)
"well why not?"

(real answer)..."i have social anxiety and i've become increasingly bitter about it and resigned to not having any companionship"

(answer given) "say.. look at those flowers..."


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## S.T.A.T. (Jan 17, 2009)

oh come on everyone! That negative thinking won't help! 

get out there and at least try!


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## Koldfusion (Dec 3, 2011)

Yup Same here bro 24 going on 25 tried i dont know how many times now (think its somewhere in the 150s) i personally do not get it i'm told i'm confident, outgoing and decent looking by friends but it just won't happen for me i gave up on it about 2 months ago now didn't see a reason to keep getting rejected kinda got sick of it i guess everyone just says "oh your young don't worry itll happen i of course think in the of my head yea thats bull but i just try to hope that it will change in the future though i admit myself that it gets harder everyday to live with it (especially when you go out and couples love to flaunt in front of everyone) but i just look away and move on with my day and try to accept who i am and try to believe that i'l find someone when i least expect it (even though that sounds like a myth to me) all i can say is good luck. 

-Kold


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Here's a success story to kinda drown out all the negativity here: A friend of mine just got his first girlfriend (and kiss) at 26 years old. I remember him admitting to being envious of me because I was the attractive one (his words, not mine) and white (he said that white guys have it easy when it comes to dating. He's Chinese-Canadian). But hey he has a girlfriend now. He really followed through on his New Year's Resolution to become more social (I on the other hand didn't do quite as well. I had some successes. But I'm not where I would like to be). He found a good mixed-gender social circle of buddies to hang out with in college (he dropped out years ago but then went back). He's out there living life. A friend of his introduced him to a girl. They end up clicking. That's all she wrote. Meanwhile he was trying Plenty of Fish for ages and couldn't even get one date.

See this is the thing shy guys. You have to go out there and live life. Find yourself a nice core mixed-gendered social circle. It's the best way. It's easier said than done when you have finished college (like I have) or you are not in school anymore though. But there are still possibilities out there for grads I suppose.

And my friend is a pretty nerdy dude too. He used to just stay at home all the time playing video games, watching movies/tv/anime/etc. He's still into those hobbies but he doesn't let it rule his life. Here's the deal though: this guy is comfortable in his own skin. He didn't go on here whining about never having a girlfriend and being a virgin. Whether the fact that your limited relationship experience bothers you or not is UP TO YOU. It's up to your self-esteem. And this guy had similar concerns to myself, "I don't know what to talk about with girls". But he grew out of that funk. I'm happy for my friend.

It is funny how things play out because I remember when he came to my house a few months ago, he was all sociable and stuff. And I was lethargic, unsociable and really awkward. I think the difference between he and I is that his mental state is in a much better place, his self-esteem is in a much better place and he's motivated. He didn't need to look at PUA material or "how-tos" on how to be sociable and how to talk to women. He is just in a good place mentally and out there living life. I regressed. He progressed. I used to be in his position. But then I got really depressed, I isolated myself. Sometimes I have these moments where I'm really screwed up (ie. not even being able to form a coherent sentence on a job interview or out in public) and I'm just thinking, "what is wrong with me?! I was able to do this before. Why am I this bad now?"

The best way to feel good about yourself: Don't focus on getting a girlfriend. Don't focus on getting laid. The only thing that matters is how you feel about yourself.


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## BobtheBest (Aug 27, 2011)

^ Nice read and very awesome story. Kind of relates to me, in a way.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

the availability of porn and the fact that I can see just about any woman I want _(ethnicity, size, age, etc)_ naked with just one click of the mouse has made me care less about the fact that I've never been in a serious relationship

I see my siblings/cousins/friends with kids and hear them say things like _"I wish I never had them"_ or hear about their problems with their spouses and become grateful that I lack the ability to socialize which keeps my life simple and less frustrating


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## itisgoingtobefine (May 15, 2011)

I'm 32, and I have never had a girl friend. Actually I don't know if that's an honest statement or not. :stu Kindergarten? Then when I was 28 I got a girl sorta... And then I got an online girl friend. But really I don't think you can count these. Kindergarten is too young. The second one, was a crazy goofball, that every man she ever had, dumped her in a month. And the last one? An online girl friend living 3 states away, smells of failure. At any rate I don't feel like I actually picked these girls. Other circumstances put us together.... And circumstances ripped us apart before anything real could really become real! If you get my gist. :stu As with online dating, I get rejected 100 percent of the time! But even that statement might not be perfectly true. There are some girls I have talked with. And some I've talked with on the phone. But once again, nothing became real. WE never met, nor could we ever meet. So what was the point of that? :stu. I'm sorry I'm not being helpful. Just sympathizing / and self expressing.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I am 29 and never had a girlfriend.


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## cgcooper (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm 20 and I've only dated one girl. Feel ya dude. Let's face it, we're a bit pathetic. lol. But its never too late, y'know. Hope till it hurts, man.


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## Ckg2011 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am 28yr's old and have never had a serious real girlfriend. An the only girl that did show any interest in me. I didn't do anything about, cause I was to scared to ruin to the friendship.


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## falling down (Oct 17, 2011)

Welcome to the club, we have taken the liberty of leaving your confidence at the door.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

BobtheSaint said:


> ^ Nice read and very awesome story. Kind of relates to me, in a way.


Yeah it is inspiring. Though I do wonder if it's too late for me to get my life on track. My friend met his friends through college. It's been awhile since I graduated college. I made no new friends back in college and that was pretty much THE time to reinvent myself. That's the time when lots of people who were shy/awkward in highschool reinvent themselves. But now I need to find some other way to reinvent myself because I blew my college chance. Instead I just avoided people in college because I thought they would think that I was a freak once they found out more about me, my life, my SA, overall anxiety, awkwardness, etc. I have tried reconnecting with old friends in high school. But it just hasn't been working out for me. They never contact me unless I contact them. I'm just a small little speck in their lives. They don't include me in their own social circles.

I've hung out with my ex-girlfriend a few times. People say to basically avoid your exes and cut them out of your life. But she's pretty much the only friend who bothers to contact me without me contacting first. And she will also invite me to hang out sometimes. But not very often. I'm still like a speck in her life too. She's got a long-term boyfriend that she lives with and they're probably gonna get married. So if she hung out with me regularly, her bf would probably get suspicious and jealous (I don't even think he knows we had a history). Her cousin thinks I have an ulterior motive for hanging out with her. But in truth, I'm just isolated and badly in need of a social life.

And one of the people on here who I thought was my friend basically said that I was just playing the victim role and that I had to go out and take action (sounds like something pop psychologist Dr. Phil would say). But I don't know what action to take to improve my situation. I can't force people to accept me into their social circle. It's hard when you've been isolated for so long to make new friends. We have the SAS Chat here. But I don't find that very satisfying beyond a certain point. I want to hang out with people and not just socialize online.

I also have concerns about career as well. I am working in a field that I studied for in college. But I'm rather bored working in my job, they have me at part-time at the moment and my contract ends in a month so I will have to be looking for another job. And job hunting is really stressful when you have SA. And I have large work history gaps on my resume that are SA-related, which doesn't help me out.

I would like to have a girlfriend again. What holds me back is that I assume that I'm going to get rejected anyway either because they might think I'm a loser or they might want a guy to settle down with and I just don't fit the bill. And outside of that, it's really difficult for me to relate with people and have a conversation with them because I have been isolated for so long.

I need to get out there and make friends somehow. I haven't figured out just how yet. It's harder after college.


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## Zero From Outer Space (Jan 10, 2005)

I once made a long post on the internet somewhere about how I'd never had a girlfriend at 25. I didn't think it would ever happen for me. Then the next month I got one and we've been together for over 2 years now.

I won't bore you with the details. My point is that things can change. I know that isn't much consolation right now but you never know what tomorrow might bring.


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## humourless (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm 75 and never had a boyfriend


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## Doctorius (Sep 12, 2011)

I am 20 and I've never had a girlfriend! Oh well, at least I have money to spend in prostitutes............... nah just kidding I have no money either


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

25 and just got my first less than a year ago. I was making threads like this, pitying myself for years, and just doing nothing to change my situation (or at least not enough). Point is, when I really got down and dirty and worked my *** off to change things around for myself, things finally did. I just went full steam towards my goal, deflecting rejections and not having any regrets, and my goal is what I achieved. Sometimes it takes a passionate vow to change and then sticking to that vow against all odds to finally make things happen. You all have more to offer to women than you realize (not the least of which being empathy) - once you do that the hard part is over and it's just a matter of getting women to realize it.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> 25 and just got my first less than a year ago. I was making threads like this, pitying myself for years, and just doing nothing to change my situation (or at least not enough). Point is, when I really got down and dirty and worked my *** off to change things around for myself, things finally did. I just went full steam towards my goal, deflecting rejections and not having any regrets, and my goal is what I achieved. Sometimes it takes a passionate vow to change and then sticking to that vow against all odds to finally make things happen. You all have more to offer to women than you realize (not the least of which being empathy) - once you do that the hard part is over and it's just a matter of getting women to realize it.


We are both in our mid-20s (I'm a year older than you though). I would be interested in hearing about whatever transformation you went through. I isolated myself in college basically and have long since graduated. So I missed that boat. College is basically the time to reinvent yourself. But I no longer have that option to get myself out of a social funk. And I don't have any colleagues at work that are around my age. I'm the young newbie.

I believe you said before on a previous thread that you met your girlfriend off POF. I do have a POF account, which I haven't been using (I do have a profile and pic up though). But I find it difficult to talk to girls because it's rather difficult to relate to them. There isn't much for me to talk about myself. I don't have much going on with my life. My job, while related to my field, is boring and I don't like it. A lot of girls seem to want a guy who is passionate about what he does. But it would be disingenuous for me to pretend that I'm passionate about my job. I find myself constantly looking at the time on the bottom right of my computer screen at work.

Don't really have a social life going on. I just surf the internet (I especially waste a lot of time on the internet doing a whole bunch of nothing), play video games, watch some tv/movies, etc. I do volunteer. That is a hobby that people tend to find interesting and ask me about. And I have been exercising lately. But nothing special to talk about. I lead a rather uninteresting life and it's difficult to make that life interesting unless I have friends. But I find that if you are uninteresting, people don't want to make you their friend in the first place. I have tried re-connecting with old friends from high school. They don't seem interested in socializing with me. I always have to be the one that contacts them. They never contact me first. And I'm always the one that has to invite them to a social arrangement and make plans. They don't.

I wish there was some sort of road map laid out for me. But there isn't. A friend of mine turned his life around from total introvert to sociable guy with a girlfriend by finding himself a good core mixed-gender group of friends to hang out with. But he found this group through college. I long finished college. POF never worked for my friend. He found his girlfriend through a mutual friend. Online dating is stacked against guys and there are way too many girls who flake out on the internet.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright:1059497787 said:


> We are both in our mid-20s (I'm a year older than you though). I would be interested in hearing about whatever transformation you went through. I isolated myself in college basically and have long since graduated. So I missed that boat. College is basically the time to reinvent yourself. But I no longer have that option to get myself out of a social funk. And I don't have any colleagues at work that are around my age. I'm the young newbie.
> 
> I believe you said before on a previous thread that you met your girlfriend off POF. I do have a POF account, which I haven't been using (I do have a profile and pic up though). But I find it difficult to talk to girls because it's rather difficult to relate to them. There isn't much for me to talk about myself. I don't have much going on with my life. My job, while related to my field, is boring and I don't like it. A lot of girls seem to want a guy who is passionate about what he does. But it would be disingenuous for me to pretend that I'm passionate about my job. I find myself constantly looking at the time on the bottom right of my computer screen at work.
> 
> ...


I missed the boat in college too. I actually graduated two years late and I still couldn't get a life going for myself. I come home, get a job that's not all that exciting but is nevertheless related to my field and a good start to my career. I spend all my time working, working out, and playing video games..with no life to speak of. Fast forward 6 months or so and I am starting to get incredibly tired of the whole routine. Not to mention, feeling lonely for my whole life and never having kissed a girl made me feel horrible on a daily basis. Throw in SA and zero self esteem and you have quite the mess. The one thing I had going for me was that I was in great shape and I am a good looking guy, but the fact that I never got a girl even with that going for me made me feel even worse.

Despite all that, however, I had had enough. And I didn't meet my first gf online. I met her at a bar after about 5 weeks of going out with my one goal being to meet someone. Perhaps that wasn't the best goal ..it should have been to just have a good time. But I couldn't...I was too much of a mess..I needed a girl and I wouldn't give up until I got one. I played the game though...I didn't come off as desperate..I tried to use all the pua tricks and all that..and don't get me wrong, they helped me figure out what women like and what they don't. They were a great asset to me. But I found that when I was at my best was when I was just smiling and relaxing and kicking it...those were the times where I was able to get numbers. The other times where I was either rejected or didn't approach...well they sucked...but I didn't let them slow me down. For the first time in my life I just said **** it and stopped being so sensitive.

Anyways, point is I kept at it for a bit until I finally met my gf. We went on a few dates and then I went for the kiss. We eventually broke up and then I tried the online arena. I went on a few dates until I met my current gf. As for your job and relating to girls online, man my job isn't interesting but I make it sound interesting. I talk about it with pride. I do what I do and say what I say and don't let anyone tell me its wrong. Its why my gf now fell for me...because I was different...sensitive and caring but still confident at the same time. Confident enough to dress differently and be open and honest and be caring and all that stuff that she never got from other guys. Most other guys try so hard to be macho and make it known they are the ****. I know I'm the **** but I don't have to show it off to everyone. That's what a real man is, that's the attitude you have to have.

Btw if you need tips about online dating I could give you a ton.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I think it would be impossible to make my job seem exciting. lol. And it would seem fake if I pretended to be passionate about it. I have revealed to a couple girls I've talked to that I'm bored out of my mind at my job. That's probably a big no no in every dating guru or PUA handbook. But whatever. I'm being legit. Lying about how I feel about my job to seem more alpha with women is no different than being a beta people pleaser/door mat. But whatever, I get it. People are shallow. Every one is. People are judged on how "interesting" their lives are (especially true for men. Though women are under pressure to impress their girlfriends too), how attractive they are (this is especially true for women), by social status (especially men. But women are under tremendous pressure to impress their girlfriends and family), etc.

I don't think I could do the bar thing. Those are the type of girls that PUA material is geared towards. The girls that will make you take "tests" and expect me to be someone that I'm really not. I can appreciate the "don't be a people pleaser, don't be a door mat" type of advice that guys like David DeAngelo give out. That is advice that I need to take more often. I have viewed over half of DD's Man Transformation. But I don't agree with the head games or trying not to appear too eager. Or trying to put on the cool rational "woman stop being neurotic, I don't want to listen to your *****ing" role. Or trying to make it so that the guy is the one with the power and that the girl has to at least be slightly more subordinate to the guy rather than an equal partner in life.

Maybe I just sound rather cynical lately. Heh. I would like to be more connected. But I don't want to connect with just anyone. I want to connect with people that I can trust, that make me comfortable and that accept me for who I am. I don't want to "sell out" myself. I don't want to be shackled by SA (which does holds me back from revealing my true self), but I don't want to blatantly lie to people or prostitute my personality and core values. Whenever people ask me if I had a good day at work (I hate it when my mom asks me that question every single day), what am I supposed to say? "yeah". That's a lie. The proper answer is "eh alright I guess." But that's not "interesting" enough for people. Whatever. It's a job. It provides me with a paycheck. Ideally I'd like to make a living as a novelist or a self-employed indie game designer/developer or an entrepreneur in another area of interest. I want to stimulate my creativity. I hate being a cubicle drone taking orders from the bean counters at the top. But somebody has to be that cubicle drone right? And the odds of "making it" in the creative realms are slim. I probably should at least try to chase after the dream (and I have been thinking seriously about it). But the vast majority of people aren't living the dream. Most people who say they like their job are liars.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright:1059497870 said:


> I think it would be impossible to make my job seem exciting. lol. And it would seem fake if I pretended to be passionate about it. I have revealed to a couple girls I've talked to that I'm bored out of my mind at my job. That's probably a big no no in every dating guru or PUA handbook. But whatever. I'm being legit. Lying about how I feel about my job to seem more alpha with women is no different than being a beta people pleaser/door mat. But whatever, I get it. People are shallow. Every one is. People are judged on how "interesting" their lives are (especially true for men. Though women are under pressure to impress their girlfriends too), how attractive they are (this is especially true for women), by social status (especially men. But women are under tremendous pressure to impress their girlfriends and family), etc.
> 
> I don't think I could do the bar thing. Those are the type of girls that PUA material is geared towards. The girls that will make you take "tests" and expect me to be someone that I'm really not. I can appreciate the "don't be a people pleaser, don't be a door mat" type of advice that guys like David DeAngelo give out. That is advice that I need to take more often. I have viewed over half of DD's Man Transformation. But I don't agree with the head games or trying not to appear too eager. Or trying to put on the cool rational "woman stop being neurotic, I don't want to listen to your *****ing" role. Or trying to make it so that the guy is the one with the power and that the girl has to at least be slightly more subordinate to the guy rather than an equal partner in life.
> 
> Maybe I just sound rather cynical lately. Heh. I would like to be more connected. But I don't want to connect with just anyone. I want to connect with people that I can trust, that make me comfortable and that accept me for who I am. I don't want to "sell out" myself. I don't want to be shackled by SA (which does holds me back from revealing my true self), but I don't want to blatantly lie to people or prostitute my personality and core values. Whenever people ask me if I had a good day at work (I hate it when my mom asks me that question every single day), what am I supposed to say? "yeah". That's a lie. The proper answer is "eh alright I guess." But that's not "interesting" enough for people. Whatever. It's a job. It provides me with a paycheck. Ideally I'd like to make a living as a novelist or a self-employed indie game designer/developer or an entrepreneur in another area of interest. I want to stimulate my creativity. I hate being a cubicle drone taking orders from the bean counters at the top. But somebody has to be that cubicle drone right? And the odds of "making it" in the creative realms are slim. I probably should at least try to chase after the dream (and I have been thinking seriously about it). But the vast majority of people aren't living the dream. Most people who say they like their job are liars.


Most people would say you have a negative outlook. Yes, you are being honest about your feelings, but they are negative. People are drawn to confidence and positivity. Its simple as that. Luckily, becoming more positive is something you can change. And if you don't want to because its not who you are, well then that's just silly. Everyone wants to be happy, everyone wants to be positive. So many people here confuse going out of your comfort zone to be a more sociable person as being disingenuous and going against their core values. Well guess what? Its not. Its called trying to change yourself for the better. If your core values do not include the ability called self-improvement, then yes, we may have a problem here.

You say you don't want to do the bar thing because those aren't the type of people youre trying to attract. Well guess what again? My first gf was one of the sweetest, most genuine people I've ever met. I was completely at ease talking to her and I didn't have to pull any of those silly pus tricks to get her. It was all ME.

And about the job thing again: okay so your current job sucks. Its nothing to impress girls about. So then you talk about your future goals instead. "This job is good for me now but my dream is bla bla bla and I'm going to work my *** off to achieve it." If you can't take pride in your current job, then take pride in your goals and dreams. That passion will be extremely attractive. If you can't be passionate about that when talking to a girl, then you either have to get passionate or you have to hope she doesn't hold that against you too much. Girls like some enthusiasm. Learn to have some. As an aside I hooked up with my current gf for the first time without going into any depth about my job whatsoever. Its not always that important right away...most of the time in the beginning its more about asking the girl questions and focusing on her.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> Most people would say you have a negative outlook. Yes, you are being honest about your feelings, but they are negative. People are drawn to confidence and positivity. Its simple as that. Luckily, becoming more positive is something you can change. And if you don't want to because its not who you are, well then that's just silly. Everyone wants to be happy, everyone wants to be positive. So many people here confuse going out of your comfort zone to be a more sociable person as being disingenuous and going against their core values. Well guess what? Its not. Its called trying to change yourself for the better. If your core values do not include the ability called self-improvement, then yes, we may have a problem here.


I believe in self-improvement. And I don't believe going outside your comfort zone and being more sociable is disingenuous. It's about trying to explore yourself. I do have a negative outlook about people. But am I really wrong? Are humans not self-centered beings? Are they not primarily interested in what you can do for them? If you are not "interesting", they don't want anything to do with you. Humans live inside a matrix. We like to think we are enlightened but we are not. We are really just social pack animals looking to gain acceptance, social status, survive, spread our DNA, etc. Take a mass consumerist event like Black Friday and you have people trampling over each other, mugging each other, pepper spraying each other, etc. all to save some money. And we turn a blind eye to all the human suffering that is involved in making our smart phones, our computers, our clothes, etc. (I'm guilty of that too). People like to think of themselves as morally superior. But we are not. When I bring up this stuff, it makes people uncomfortable. They want to talk about Jersey Shore or whatever else instead (and hey that's fine, I like the Jersey Shore. Nice bread and circus). So yeah maybe I have a negative outlook. I see the world as one where I have to upgrade certain attributes (kind of like rpgs. I like rpgs) so that I an "impress" other people enough to like me and gain social rewards. But guess what? If I had a lot of those wonderful things in my life taken away from me, those same people would jump out of my life. Dogs are more loyal than humans.

I get what you are saying though. I guess we just have to accept reality the way it is, plug into the Matrix and do our best to play the little game and pretend like we are actually love each other and pretend that we are genuinely connecting with one another. Because after all there really is no purpose in life but to experience it until we die. And if you are going to experience it, you might as well be "winning" and not "losing" right? I guess I have to fake it until I make it with people who don't genuinely care about anyone but themselves so that I gain social brownie points and become a "winner" right? I'm f'n tired of trying to please people. Maybe I'm just getting more set in my isolationist ways as I get older.



> And about the job thing again: okay so your current job sucks. Its nothing to impress girls about. So then you talk about your future goals instead. "This job is good for me now but my dream is bla bla bla and I'm going to work my *** off to achieve it." If you can't take pride in your current job, then take pride in your goals and dreams. That passion will be extremely attractive. If you can't be passionate about that when talking to a girl, then you either have to get passionate or you have to hope she doesn't hold that against you too much. Girls like some enthusiasm. Learn to have some. As an aside I hooked up with my current gf for the first time without going into any depth about my job whatsoever. Its not always that important right away...most of the time in the beginning its more about asking the girl questions and focusing on her.


I am passionate about the future goals/dreams. The novel was something I had planned on 3 years ago. I put some serious planning and writing into it. But then I procrastinated on it and I kinda put it on the side because I wasn't pleased with how the project was turning out. But I plan on trying again with a different approach. Been procrastinating though. Considering the novel is mental health-related and much of it is auto-biographical, I would feel almost naked talking about the novel to a girl that I just met.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

So don't get too specific about it right away. As for plugging into the matrix, just because you have these thoughts - which a lot of people with SA probably have because a lot of times they are introspective, empathetic and insightful - doesn't mean you can't share these thoughts with a great girl who is just as insightful. It just means that some of those topics are too heavy to bring up when you're just getting to know someone and feeling them out. You can be deep and still know how to have a good time and talk about frivolous things. Use that intelligence to become multi-faceted...I'm sure if you probed into Jersey shore you could come up with some deep and hilarious insights about even something that inane. That's where you can shine. You have to learn to balance being deep and cynical with being positive and fun and smiling. It will make you a more well-rounded, happy individual in the end.


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

phoenixwright said:


> People like to think of themselves as morally superior. But we are not. When I bring up this stuff, it makes people uncomfortable.


I agree. It may be true that most people are doing their best to be good in whatever way they understand 'good' to be, but that doesn't negate all the unsavoury aspects of human nature, which almost all people are afflicted with. I wish more people would acknowledge this reality instead of holding to the idealistic notion that humans are morally advanced and enlightened beings and the bad things in the world are due purely to a small number of 'bad eggs'. The truth is that it is the failings inherent in ALL of us that cause the bad things to happen. The harm that humans inflict on each other is a manifestation of a collective expression of our flaws, rather than an individual expression of the flaws of a small number of people. So it is possible for most people to be good when judged individually, yet still unwittingly produce and enable all the strife in the world.

I think it is far better to acknowledge this reality than to pretend that most people are enlightened and innocent. That doesn't mean that we need to be judgemental - after all, most people are doing the best they can with what they've got, and it is hard to change things that are ingrained in us. But it at least helps us to be aware of our own nature and to make ourselves better.

Sorry for getting off-topic; I just saw that and wanted to interject my worthless opinion because it's something I've thought about a lot. :teeth


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Ape in space said:


> I agree. It may be true that most people are doing their best to be good in whatever way they understand 'good' to be, but that doesn't negate all the unsavoury aspects of human nature, which almost all people are afflicted with. I wish more people would acknowledge this reality instead of holding to the idealistic notion that humans are morally advanced and enlightened beings and the bad things in the world are due purely to a small number of 'bad eggs'. The truth is that it is the failings inherent in ALL of us that cause the bad things to happen. The harm that humans inflict on each other is a manifestation of a collective expression of our flaws, rather than an individual expression of the flaws of a small number of people. So it is possible for most people to be good when judged individually, yet still unwittingly produce and enable all the strife in the world.
> 
> I think it is far better to acknowledge this reality than to pretend that most people are enlightened and innocent. That doesn't mean that we need to be judgemental - after all, most people are doing the best they can with what they've got, and it is hard to change things that are ingrained in us. But it at least helps us to be aware of our own nature and to make ourselves better.
> 
> Sorry for getting off-topic; I just saw that and wanted to interject my worthless opinion because it's something I've thought about a lot. :teeth


Yeah I think many of us try to be "good" and see ourselves as "good". But there are a lot of unsavory aspects to our personalities that we don't like coming to terms with. It makes it hard for me to feel motivated to want to develop social bonds with other people when I keep this in mind. At first impression, people are quick to paint you negatively. Humans are mentally lazy and quick to prejudge you and write you off. It's not until they get to know you down the road that people are more willing to accept certain things about you. And this is why I don't feel very comfortable with making friends or (even worse) courting women. Especially if they are the gossipy type and I hear them say bad things about other people (co-workers at work or when I was in college, fellow classmates). I'm very uncomfortable with talking about myself at first. Because people will assume things about me without really even knowing me. This is why I see it as "selling out" to basically lie to people. And if I keep quiet or dodge certain questions/topics, that just magnifies my shyness/social anxiety/social awkwardness even more. For eg. this one girl asked me in-person why I was so shy. I joked that I'm a man of mystery. But she wouldn't take that for an answer. If I can't be honest with people and trust them, what's the point of having a relationship? Whether romantic or friendship.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm 27 and I never had a striped tie or a tiger for a pet or sound proof walls.


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## inerameia (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't beat yourself up... you have SA. I'm sure I won't have one at your age too. I've had two gfs but they lasted a week lol because I was so insecure... I was lucky to even have them... it was too much for me...


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## matutine (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm 21 and in the same boat. 

On the same track as well.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

It's pathetic that people think it's pathetic just because a guy never had a girlfriend.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I am 30 and in the same boat.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

almost 4 yr old topic


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

rymo said:


> almost 4 yr old topic


So?

I'm still in the same situation I was 4 years ago.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> So?
> 
> I'm still in the same situation I was 4 years ago.


Weren't you talking to someone in your class recently? How's that going?


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## Loveless (Apr 6, 2012)

MobiusX said:


> It's pathetic that people think it's pathetic just because a guy never had a girlfriend.


Lol. I'll keep my mouth shut.


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## R3served (Sep 8, 2012)

Never had a gf either and prob not 10 years from now either


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## Wacky Wednesdays (Apr 10, 2011)

My brother was gf-less until the age of 26. They're in love and their relationship has survived long distance...so don't stress, it's not entirely impossible ;P


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> almost 4 yr old topic


I know! lol. It's weird seeing posts of me from over a year ago here. My outlook was even worse then and I was living like a hermit aside from work then. Honestly I regret not getting involved socially (including dating) in college. And not getting started with online dating sites back when I first heard about them in 2008-ish (maybe even before that). What I know now would have been a lot more helpful to know at 18-22 years old instead of 27.


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## BillDauterive (Oct 24, 2012)

Same situation here as well, 25 currently and no experience with females. You certainly aren't ever alone with your issues on this forum at least. There's always someone to relate and offer empathy.


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## ravens (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm the same except I'm 42. No experience at all with women. It didn't use to bother me but now I look at myself as a failure.


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## mrhhh03 (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm an old fool myself. I never had a girlfriend until I was 19. She was not a good choice for me either, but being desperate, I married her, but it failed. My advice is not to sell yourself short and take anyone for the sake of having a girlfriend, it ends painfully. I still have not found meaningful love and at my age, their isn't much hope. I have always been the third wheel with my guy friends, they have the girl, I don't. I wish I had some encouraging words, but I don't. Remember one thing, the woman always picks her mate and no matter what you do it always comes down to that.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

mrhhh03 said:


> I'm an old fool myself. I never had a girlfriend until I was 19. She was not a good choice for me either, but being desperate, I married her, but it failed. My advice is not to sell yourself short and take anyone for the sake of having a girlfriend, it ends painfully. I still have not found meaningful love and at my age, their isn't much hope. I have always been the third wheel with my guy friends, they have the girl, I don't. I wish I had some encouraging words, but I don't. Remember one thing, the woman always picks her mate and no matter what you do it always comes down to that.


How long did each of your marriages last?  And what age were you when they ended?


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Hooray for joining the Club Pathetique.

If I could have known 4 years ago what was going to come of me, perhaps I would have gotten a head start on being a hermit. By that, I mean an intentional head start. Whatever. Get busy living or get busy dying.


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