# How much does it cost to, umm...



## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

How much does it cost to, umm
:um a hooker... in brooklyn ?

or is it all illegal altogether ?


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## Emptyheart (Sep 15, 2009)

Lol I was born in brooklyn...let me tell you there were strippers roaming in every corner.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Probably not the greatest forum to be asking. I would assume they have different rates anyway. Google it


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## Dane (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm pretty sure prostitution is illegal everywhere in the US except Nevada.


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## 1applehearts1 (Jan 7, 2010)

psssst....its illegal, and yeah dont ask that here  thats something very personal


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Some Russian Guy said:


> How much does it cost to, umm
> :um a hooker... in brooklyn ?
> 
> or is it all illegal altogether ?


Don't lower yourself man - they can be walking STDs and you'd never know it. I have :um seen those documentaries. They do some pretty weird stuff.

You are a decent looking guy, but you must work on yourself first - not wirh sex - you. Build up your self-esteem.
I don't think it is worth a criminal record either.


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## JFmtl (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm no expert, but those cost at least a few hundred dollars...or even more. Of course, protection is important with them. but beware, don't expect them to fill any emotional, sentimental void you may have, the only thing you will have is a warm body to...do your thing with. and of course it's illegal.

Now, is it worthed? better than nothing for those who don't have the ability to go to a bar and pick up a girl? that would be up to those who already hire the service of an escort or prostitute to give an honest answer to the question, only them can truly tell.


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## mazer (Feb 12, 2010)

Posted on the relationship forum? Hooker != relationship.
Seriously, this is something most people would regret in the future. It is illegal, potentially physically harmful, emotionally unsatisfying, and morally shaky.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

I'd guess $150 - $300 per hour for your craigslist or corner gal. Imports may be cheaper (as in sex slaves in smelly basements). High quality starts at about $1000 an hour. These prices aren't verified just speculation and based on perusing a few ads. Any way you cut it, it's gonna be costly if you want a fix atleast one time a weak.

Oh and if you checked out my other recent thread, you'd notice 50 - 70% of women will permanently blacklist a guy who uses a hooker. So either get good at telling lies, or write off most women.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

It might be fun for that night, but the long term effects could make your life even worse.


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## broseph (Jan 18, 2010)

If you don't mind catching aids then you could probably get someone for less than 100.

I'm just guessing here but I think if you want someone better you'll have to go through some sort of escort service.


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

If you go for the toothless wonder crack head on the street corner with HIV, then maybe $20:lol

If you go through an escort service and the girl is actually young and hot, then you can drop a lot more...$300-500.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

Classified said:


> It might be fun for that night, but the long term effects could make your life even worse.


I'm more worried that I can get hooked to sex and spend all my money on them, which I don't have that much...
All I want is not to become the real 40 year old virgin, therefore I want to lose my, umm... innocence, as soon as possible... to get this problem off my chest.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

I feel you, man, and I think it's totally okay to do it just to get the monkey off your back. I might do it myself, actually. I'd recommend you take a flight to Nevada and visit a brothel. Sure, it'll run up expenses, but it will be much safer and cleaner if you can do it in a place where it is regulated.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

mazer said:


> *Posted on the relationship forum? Hooker != relationship.*
> .


Good, I am not the only who noticed that.


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

As with anything - You get what you pay for.


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## Nintendo (Nov 17, 2009)

Can a hooker reject you? I mean, in a indirect way. Like if you're a fat, ugly guy who she wants nothing to do with ("I don't need the money this bad. I know I'll miss a payment on my Cadillac STS, but **** it" (I'm guessing this is what goes on inside a hooker's head)). She probably raises her price to where the 'customer' says no.

Is this possible, or do they have no dignity/self respect and they pretty much take anything that comes their way?


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Nintendo said:


> Can a hooker reject you? I mean, in a indirect way. Like if you're a fat, ugly guy who she wants nothing to do with ("I don't need the money this bad. I know I'll miss a payment on my Cadillac STS, but **** it" (I'm guessing this is what goes on inside a hooker's head)). She could probably raise her prices to where the 'customer' says no.
> 
> Is this possible, or do they have no dignity/self respect and they pretty much take anything that comes their way?


well if there was someone else getting their clients for them they probably wouldn't be able to reject a customer simply because they were fat or ugly. i really doubt they are attracted to most of them anyway.


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## Still Waters (Sep 18, 2008)

Let see - Possibility for HIV,STD's,oh,and a little thing called dignity. Pretty expensive I'd say!


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

mazer said:


> Posted on the relationship forum? Hooker != relationship.
> Seriously, this is something most people would regret in the future. It is illegal, potentially physically harmful, emotionally unsatisfying, and morally shaky.


If I lose virginity, I think it will be easier to get into a real relationship later on... I believe I will have more confidence to get girls...
But right now I can only umm, do it with a hooker, even though it's costly for me. It should be one time event only.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

how does using no 'real' effort whatsoever to get laid give someone confidence? it takes no skills, no charm, no attractiveness, no likeable qualities, and so forth, when you visit a prostitute for sex. i'd compare it to someone buying their way into a prestigious university instead of working hard at getting high grades and putting together a good application.

i can understand seeing a prostitute for sexual release, that makes sense. but for confidence? you are essentially paying someone to make you think they are attracted to you. how could that possibly make someone feel good about themselves? no one is that naive to think they can just ignore the fact that the prostitute very likely had no attraction and feelings and probably didn't particularly enjoy it.
if you actually want confidence during sex with future partners, don't feel ready to to put yourself in those situations and are willing to spend money, do research and gain knowledge (there are even class/workshops on these) to learn techniques on: how to be a thoughtful and giving lover, how to do cunnilingus, how to feel comfortable with yourself during intimacy, how to ensure your partner feels good, etc etc.


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## Ambivert (Jan 16, 2010)

Futures said:


> If you go for the toothless wonder crack head on the street corner with HIV, then maybe $20:lol
> 
> If you go through an escort service and the girl is actually young and hot, then you can drop a lot more...$300-500.


Or you can go "Elliot Spitzer" style and take a high class escort for $10,000+

but I don't think its worth it to go for a hooker at all, lol


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## AlwaysOnTheOutside (Jan 11, 2010)

You're in Brooklyn? I am working on picking up women in Manhattan...that might be the way to go, maybe you can join me.


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## BrokenDreams (Nov 22, 2008)

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it at all. If you think it is morally wrong to do so then I think you will regret it later, but if prostitution is not against your moral standards then I don't think you will lose self respect from using one. I think that opinions on this subject are necessarily based on the individuals view of the morality of prostitution.

If you do use one, you should definately use protection which reputable professionals will insist on anyway. It may or may not accomplish what you are hoping for. You may gain confidence in your ability to perform sexually and get some sexual release but probably will not gain confidence in your ability to approach / meet girls.


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

I'm gonna go against the girls and say that I completely understand why you want to. And I'll go with the ones who said if you must then go higher class with an escort, preferably somewhere it's legal. Or go with what "AlwaysOnTheOutside" suggested. I understand your frustration though, I'm not gonna preach.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

nothing to fear said:


> how does using no 'real' effort whatsoever to get laid give someone confidence? it takes no skills, no charm, no attractiveness, no likeable qualities, and so forth, when you visit a prostitute for sex. i'd compare it to someone buying their way into a prestigious university instead of working hard at getting high grades and putting together a good application.


Believe it or not it does take effort. It's an exposure exercise. You still need to negotiate price, talk to a girl, get naked and "perform". Going to a hooker is no different in practice than sex surrogates who apply hands on approaches to intimacy issues.

Life doesn't need to be hard for the sake of being hard. The means by which you arrive at your goal doesn't take away from what you get. Some will call it cheating, I call it working smarter not harder.

Besides how can you claim something's earned, when your success is based on predetermined circumstances? What if you're an ugly guy? Someone who can't talk to women without panic attacks? Is a good looking charismatic guy really earning anything by competing against handicapped people? No, I think that's like claiming to be talented at winning the lottery.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Delicate said:


> I'm gonna go against the girls and say that I completely understand why you want to. And I'll go with the ones who said if you must then go higher class with an escort, preferably somewhere it's legal. Or go with what "AlwaysOnTheOutside" suggested. I understand your frustration though, I'm not gonna preach.


I wasnt against the idea for the record. The only issue I have is the placement of a thread about hookers in the relationship forum.

If that is what OP wants to do, more power to him. Not my thing but there are plenty of brothels in Nevada offering the service. :stu


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

I agree with drealm- it is an exposure exercise and will help to desensitize us to the stress of physical contact with women, though it would most likely take multiple encounters for it to completely desensitize us to it.

This might be a useful link regarding options:
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/drasticaction


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## Nintendo (Nov 17, 2009)

nothing to fear said:


> well if there was someone else getting their clients for them they probably wouldn't be able to reject a customer simply because they were fat or ugly. i really doubt they are attracted to most of them anyway.


Oh. I guess they just close their eyes and go to their "safe place," then.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

STKinTHEmud said:


> I agree with drealm- it is an exposure exercise and will help to desensitize us to the stress of physical contact with women, though it would most likely take multiple encounters for it to completely desensitize us to it.
> 
> This might be a useful link regarding options:
> http://www.datinggroundwork.com/drasticaction


Okay wait a minute, if you want to get laid that is fine. But dont equate it with forming relationships with women. That is insulting. Paying a hooker to get laid is strictly that, it has NOTHING to do with forming relationships.


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## zomgz (Aug 17, 2009)

Some Russian Guy said:


> If I lose virginity, I think it will be easier to get into a real relationship later on... I believe I will have more confidence to get girls...
> But right now I can only umm, do it with a hooker, even though it's costly for me. It should be one time event only.


We're taught that virginity is a bad thing when in reality it's a good thing. Just my fifty cents .


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## Delicate (May 23, 2008)

WineKitty said:


> I wasnt against the idea for the record. The only issue I have is the placement of a thread about hookers in the relationship forum.
> 
> If that is what OP wants to do, more power to him. Not my thing but there are plenty of brothels in Nevada offering the service. :stu


 Not mine either I just thought I'd explore a different side. Oh yeah I totally agree it's not a relationship thing. My post wasn't directed at you by the way. Just I'd usually have a problem with this kind of thread myself.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> Okay wait a minute, if you want to get laid that is fine. But dont equate it with forming relationships with women. That is insulting. Paying a hooker to get laid is strictly that, it has NOTHING to do with forming relationships.


Your right it isn't, but for the right amount of money they'll make you think it's a relationship. It's their job to suspend reality and trick you into thinking it's something more.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't understand how paying for sex could help build confidence.


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## gandalfthegrey (Feb 14, 2010)

i dunno here its about 100£ for a descent escort for an hour never used but i have seen the ads


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

I have an idea. Seems theres a lot of guys on here looking for love and can't find any. There are a lot of women on here looking for love and can't find any. Why don't all you singles hook up? That sounds logical. I know he is scared. I know she is scared. Why not work through the issues together, be scared together. You guys can be honest with each other, give constructive feedback and everyone improves as a result.

I don't know. I may be dumb for even thinking it.


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## mazer (Feb 12, 2010)

Sounds like something I have read before:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/groups/21-plus-single-and-looking/


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

tlgibson97 said:


> I have an idea. Seems theres a lot of guys on here looking for love and can't find any. There are a lot of women on here looking for love and can't find any. Why don't all you singles hook up? That sounds logical. I know he is scared. I know she is scared. Why not work through the issues together, be scared together. You guys can be honest with each other, give constructive feedback and everyone improves as a result.
> 
> I don't know. I may be dumb for even thinking it.


- There's more men than women here (5 guys to every 1 woman).

- Most women here are already in a relationship.

- Most voluntarily single women here don't want to date.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

from polls here being made i remember there being a pretty equal amount of males and females.

errr, most women here are definitely not already in relationships. in fact i think most are single.

i would agree that i think a lot of them here aren't actively looking to date or might not think they want a relationship right away. i'm basing on my own experience and on the couples here that i know: i bet a lot of them began as friends before realizing they liked each other and deciding to get into a relationship. i can honestly say i would have never actively tried to date people here and wouldn't have participated if there were personals posted and such (the same goes in person). i always believe that getting to know people casually first with an open-mind is better... that's just my preference. anyway i just don't think you should give up hope and assume that no one would be interested before even making a decent amount of attempts.


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## mazer (Feb 12, 2010)

Not that this is anything close to scientific, but just going on the number of people that have indicated their gender, called themselves straight, and marked their relationship status as 'single, looking' we have:
Male - 257
Female - 95
Note: those numbers are not as far off as some might have assumed
Note: Most people don't update their relationship status
Note: Single, looking does not mean that someone is looking on the internet
Note: How many people even noticed that there was a 'Single, looking' option and just chose 'Single'
Note: Males on this site seem a lot more desperate regardless of the numbers
Note: Sorry bisexuals, I discriminated because pairings between straights and bisexuals are not simple (many straights would not pair with bisexuals)


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> You're in Brooklyn? I am working on picking up women in Manhattan...that might be the way to go, maybe you can join me.


Thanks, but...
I'm unable to socialize, I can't imagine how I can pick up girls with those nonexistent social skills of mine...

That's why hooker is my only option.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

drealm said:


> Believe it or not it does take effort. It's an exposure exercise. You still need to negotiate price, talk to a girl, get naked and "perform". Going to a hooker is no different in practice than sex surrogates who apply hands on approaches to intimacy issues.
> 
> Life doesn't need to be hard for the sake of being hard. The means by which you arrive at your goal doesn't take away from what you get. Some will call it cheating, I call it working smarter not harder.
> 
> Besides how can you claim something's earned, when your success is based on predetermined circumstances? What if you're an ugly guy? Someone who can't talk to women without panic attacks? Is a good looking charismatic guy really earning anything by competing against handicapped people? No, I think that's like claiming to be talented at winning the lottery.


besides the sexual release and relieving horniness, exposure is probably the other primary benefit i see. just like other situations you would put yourself in for exposure as an attempt to help your anxiety (and related problems), i still think you would need to do it repeatedly or at least have a variety of experiences.
how do you think you would have to "perform" when seeing a prostitute?

you don't think that the experience and 'journey' you go through before reaching the ultimate goal has any significant importance? it's not just for the sake of life having to be hard, but it seems essential in order to learn the appropriate skills and gaining confidence (and hopefully to gain some decent perspective or 'wisdom') for that final goal to be as fulfilling and positive as possible. how is it even a goal if you don't have to work much to attain it?

(sorry i don't mean to pick apart everything, just curious)


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## Your Crazy (Feb 17, 2009)

Some Russian Guy said:


> Thanks, but...
> I'm unable to socialize, I can't imagine how I can pick up girls with those nonexistent social skills of mine...
> 
> That's why hooker is my only option.


You still need social skills to get a hooker.


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm just saying we see women dogging themselves for not finding someone the same as men do. So hook up, satisfy the urges you all have and see where it goes. 

The only problem is the two that would want to hook up would naturally be on opposite sides of the earth. That and most people probably aren't into casual sex. I think there was a poll on that too.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

nothing to fear said:


> how do you think you would have to "perform" when seeing a prostitute?


Seeing a drop dead gorgous woman alone won't take care of business. When a guy is tackling severe anxiety no amount of hotness will change a guy's ability to "perform". I've read many cases of virgin guys going to prostitutes and walking away still "virgins" because they weren't able to "do the deed".



nothing to fear said:


> you don't think that the experience and 'journey' you go through before reaching the ultimate goal has any significant importance? it's not just for the sake of life having to be hard, but it seems essential in order to learn the appropriate skills and gaining confidence (and hopefully to gain some decent perspective or 'wisdom') for that final goal to be as fulfilling and positive as possible. how is it even a goal if you don't have to work much to attain it?


The journey can enrich the goal. You'll feel more accomplished if you struggled more. But does that really matter to a one legged runner in a 10k marathon? This is like saying grow another leg, you'll feel more accomplished. I'm sure the guy's just happy to walk with a stump leg rather than using a wheel chair.

If the option doesn't exist to "earn it", then you have cheat or resign to always losing. Always losing is called being a "good sport". Well after being "good sports" all our lives some of us don't care about sportsmanship anymore. We see it's a rigged game. Claiming to be good at getting women is like claiming to be talented at winning the lottery, it's a bogus claim. At the end of the day if you can lose but still get the trophy, you'll take it if you're desperate enough. Society has pushed us to be desperate, it's beyond our control to not seek out treatment for our desperation.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

Your Crazy said:


> You still need social skills to get a hooker.


god dammit, why everything has to be so complicated...


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## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

RussianGuy's no fool, this is all a *ploy *to get offers from women on here. Nicely played sir, nicely played. :b **goes to start his own thread too** :b (eh I meant offers to help him in a non-professional capacity btw)


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## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

Hey OP have you tried online dating?


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Some Russian Guy said:


> god dammit, why everything has to be so complicated...


Any professional escort service is probably familiar enough with SA/non-social clients and knows how to deal with them...

Tell her your problem and I'm sure she'll work with you... if the price is right...


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Going to a hooker simply is for sex; it will teach NOTHING, and I do mean NOTHING about how to have a real relationship with a woman. Just saying.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> Going to a hooker simply is for sex; it will teach NOTHING, and I do mean NOTHING about how to have a real relationship with a woman. Just saying.


It won't teach anything about getting into a relationship, I grant you that, but don't you think it might help expose him to an anxiety provoking situation and help desensitize him to that? More than that, don't you think it might demystify virgin guys about sex and women's bodies so that we no longer place women on a pedestal (as many older virgins do)? Don't you think this has value, perhaps not directly relating to relationships, but perhaps relating to interacting with women in general?



nothing to fear said:


> errr, most women here are definitely not already in relationships. in fact i think most are single.


Someone needs to make a poll about males/females in relationships vs. single vs. single and looking. Perhaps ask people to not post comments so that it doesn't get shut down?


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## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

STKinTHEmud said:


> It won't teach anything about getting into a relationship, I grant you that, but don't you think it might help expose him to an anxiety provoking situation and help desensitize him to that? More than that, don't you think it might demystify virgin guys about sex and women's bodies so that we no longer place women on a pedestal (as many older virgins do)? Don't you think this has value, perhaps not directly relating to relationships, but perhaps relating to interacting with women in general?
> 
> Someone needs to make a poll about males/females in relationships vs. single vs. single and looking. Perhaps ask people to not post comments so that it doesn't get shut down?


I wouldn't want to pay money for sex. I want to get a girl who wants me for me, and have free love, because its not about the sex if the sex is meaningless to both people involved. I understand where you are coming from though, we all want to get that monkey off our back, but I would rather have it with someone who I like and likes me back. As for the poll. I would love to see that, because I was wondering the same thing. It is a good idea but it might start a war between men and women on who has it easier. This is the main source of conflict on SAS. :duel


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

STKinTHEmud said:


> It won't teach anything about getting into a relationship, I grant you that, but don't you think it might help expose him to an anxiety provoking situation and help desensitize him to that?


No not really, having sex with someone you love versus a paid hooker are quite different things. If you think getting laid one time is going to "desensitize" you to anything sexual you are mistaken.



> More than that, don't you think it might demystify virgin guys about sex and women's bodies so that we no longer place women on a pedestal (as many older virgins do)?


Hard one for me to answer. Placing anyone on a pedestal is bound to lead to disappointment.



> Don't you think this has value, perhaps not directly relating to relationships, but perhaps relating to interacting with women in general?


Again, no I dont. I think you get laid. Period. Someone paid to screw you isnt the same thing and I cannot understand for the life of me how you think that isnt insulting to women.



> Someone needs to make a poll about males/females in relationships vs. single vs. single and looking. Perhaps ask people to not post comments so that it doesn't get shut down?


Not sure what you are saying here? That only certain people can comment on certain threads? :con


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## Oneiros (Oct 18, 2009)

We have legal brothels in Australia, costs around a couple of hundred for under an hour, and they check for visible STDs, use protection, etc. I've been considering it for a while.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

STKinTHEmud said:


> It won't teach anything about getting into a relationship, I grant you that, but *don't you think it might help expose him to an anxiety provoking situation and help desensitize him to that?* More than that, don't you think it might demystify virgin guys about sex and women's bodies so that we no longer place women on a pedestal (as many older virgins do)? Don't you think this has value, perhaps not directly relating to relationships, but perhaps relating to interacting with women in general?
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> 
> NO. And I mean NNNNOOOO. Everybody is different man, but that just sounds ******* crazy. I've only had a few sexual partners (4 to be exact...uhhmmm, let me double check...yep, 4...yeah, still 4). It did not work that way with me. There is no desensitizing yourself, at least not for me. And I never wanted to. Why would you want to desensitize yourself to that experience? So it can become as meaningless and second nature as say, putting on your shoes or brushing your teeth???
> ...


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## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

I think anyone here that's opposed to it for reasons other than the legality or morality of prostitution is basically against casual sex. In which case you'd argue he wait till he's married? In love? Deeply cares for a woman? Likes her a lot? Kinda likes her? Eh, thinks she's hot? And what? The woman should love him? Like him? Who decides what "standard"? I mean all that is totally fine, but some people are *ok* with casual sex.

Morality and legality aside, strictly from a psychological perspective, a casual sexual encounter (paid for or not) would have the potential to demystify women for him. Take them off the pedestal as someone else said. And yeah, it would not* desensitize*, but rather *acclimate* him to women. (Desensitizing would make him emotionally numb, and so I don't think the other people meant it in the strictest sense.)

Look, I mean, of course there's emotional risks. Like there isn't with an LTR? If anything, you could argue that paying for sex is less emotionally risky. Just like going out shopping might do an agoraphobic some good, or talking to strangers might do an SA person some good, insomuch as sexual relations are part of the social experience and experience (of any kind really) can help someone with confidence then, yeah, procuring sex might not be a bad idea for him. *I'm just saying his line of reasoning has merit: *sex (possibly paid for) = social encounter = life experience = good for SA. His logic is sound.

If you pay someone to have conversation with you, or to be an escort (no sex) would that not also help someone with SA? Sure it's not like a real friendship but I doubt RussianGuy has any illusions about that. In fact this forum and others and chat rooms, I bet they are *surrogate friendships* for countless people. And isn't that was RussianGuy was talking about? Surrogacy? A proxy? Yes it (sex, chat rooms, anything) can be abused but it can definitely help. It sure as hell makes it less lonely for a lot of people. Why don't we all get off this board and have "real" conversations?

And there's also the stigma--*valid or not*--of being sexually inexperienced. One way get over that would be simply to rationalize. But another equally valid way would be to have sex! Sexually inexperienced? Pay for sex. Problem solved. Simple equation.

Does that mean everyone should do it? No, but the notion of it not being effective for helping SA because it's shallow or somehow "meaningless" sex is not necessarily valid. In fact, *maybe it's* *better that he have "meaningless" sex*. Maybe. Maybe not. But the way sex is practically sanctified by society sometimes isn't realistic nor particularly helpful.

Harps don't play, angels don't sing, and the clouds don't part your first time or any other time. * Talk about putting something on a pedestal.* To say that it's not the same thing as in a relationship--well of course it's not the same thing--*but that's the* *whole point*. There are social skills that can be developed, understood, clarified in spite of (or maybe *because?*) it's a casual encounter. An escort (non-sexual) ain't a real friend either but it definitely could teach someone about human interaction and friendship, and casual sex could teach someone about relationships. Sex-any sex is a profound interaction with another human being at some level; it can't be completely "meaningless" anyway (only less meaningful). Either way, if you ask me, *that* would sure as hell would put the "B" in CBT. "Meaningless" sex just might be the best thing for him and if he feels that paying for it is necessary then, well, so be it. More power to him. Rock on RussianGuy. You do what you have to do, and follow your own path, I say. Whatever you decide, you know what's best for you.

**** what a rant huh?) :b


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

@ Rickthegreat,

You make some good points, seriously. My concern isn't whether or not he has casual sex. Whatever Russianguy wants to do, go for it, I sure as hell won't stand in anyones way on that point. Guess I'm just wired differently. I tried the one-night-stand-thingy once and I regretted it, I still do. Complicated my life far worse than I thought it would, in more ways than I ever thought it would, but hey, that's just me. I'm just not sure that paying a prostitute, or having any kind of casual sex will demystify women for him, or help him with the worshipping-on-a-pedastal thing. Anybody can get some experience in that area, become a better lover, not be so freaked out or apprehensive about the physical closeness. I think any "demystifying" that happens with a prostitute or with casual sex or whatever, if it does work, I would be surprised if the same feelings aren't just buried and resurface when he gets into a real relationship, when the stakes are high, when it really counts. You haven't really *done* anything to deal with the issues you have with women or relationships there, except the act. You haven't dealt with any issues in any way in my mind. Just my two cents, man, just wanted to clarify what I was trying to get out. May not be worth two cents.

Anyway shows what I know. If he thinks it will cure it, I guess then go for it, not my decision. But I don't get it & I don't really agree that it's a good idea.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

nothing to fear said:


> from polls here being made i remember there being a pretty equal amount of males and females.
> 
> errr, most women here are definitely not already in relationships. in fact i think most are single.





STKinTHEmud said:


> Someone needs to make a poll about males/females in relationships vs. single vs. single and looking. Perhaps ask people to not post comments so that it doesn't get shut down?


http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f36/are-you-a-guy-or-girl-83551/
% male 63.44%
% female 36.56%

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f36/gender-vs-relationship-status-69471/
% male 62.14
% female 37.87

I'm a girl and I'm single 30	29.13%
I'm a girl and I'm in a relationship 9	8.74%
I'm a guy and I'm single 56	54.37%
I'm a guy and I'm in a relationship 8	7.77%


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## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

Yeah there's no way to be sure how anyone would react. I'm just saying: afraid to fly? Flying might help. Afraid of going out? Going out might help. Afraid of girls? Meeting one might help. Talking to one might help. Having sex with one might help. What if it did let him ease up a lot around women? Or enough to get dates eventually? If anything could be a eye-opening catalyst it would be what he is after. He didn't say if he was a virgin but if he were to eh "familiarize" himself with a woman, it would help with the fear of the unknown. I sure had my Wheaties earlier with that rant though.  BTW I have a hard time seeing how a one-night stand could complicate your life so bad though, unless it was an STD or she stalked you? *gasp* Care to elaborate SickPuppy?


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

ehhh...no on the STDage, yes on the stalkage. No elaborate-age. Bad, bad stuff there, bad memories. Eeeecck. Surprised she didn't try to boil my bunny.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

seeing a prostitute for sex only =/= socializing. well, or any that i see as being significant enough to make it the main reason for visiting one. 

it's probably as accurate of a representation of actual sexual relations you would have with woman, as much as porn is an accurate representation of real-life situations.

i'm not even against prostitution, i strongly support its legalization. the reasoning for seeing one that is thrown around here sometimes and that is talked about in this thread just seems very far-fetched to me.


also, in the title keep on seeing "umm" as another word.. hahaha. which makes sense since it's essential just that.


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## Some Russian Guy (Mar 20, 2009)

umm is an euphemism in this case... :b


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

rickthegreat said:


> I think anyone here that's opposed to it for reasons other than the legality or morality of prostitution is basically against casual sex. In which case you'd argue he wait till he's married?


I am not against the idea, nor have I argued morality or anything of the sort. Of this we are in agreement. If he wants to go to the brothel then go, that is what they are there for.

But it IS WHAT IT IS: paid sex and has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with how relationships work. Period.

If he wants to get laid and "demystify" what a woman's body is like than I guess it would do that.

What isnt logical is to say that somehow paying a hooker to have sex with you is some kind of exposure to building relationships or dealing with women. That is the only issue I have with this whole thread. The equating that somehow paid sex at a brothel represents a training ground on how to approach women.



> ...And yeah, it would not* desensitize*, but rather *acclimate* him to women. (Desensitizing would make him emotionally numb, and so I don't think the other people meant it in the strictest sense.)


And on this we in agreement. If he wants to _have sex _and familiarize himself with it, having sex will do that.



> Look, I mean, of course there's emotional risks. Like there isn't with an LTR? If anything, you could argue that paying for sex is less emotionally risky.


Agreed.



> *I'm just saying his line of reasoning has merit: *sex (possibly paid for) = social encounter = life experience = good for SA. His logic is sound.


And again, agreed.

But having sex with a hooker does not prepare one for the building of a relationship, sorry but it doesnt. That isnt how it works in the real world.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> What isnt logical is to say that somehow paying a hooker to have sex with you is some kind of exposure to building relationships or dealing with women. That is the only issue I have with this whole thread. The equating that somehow paid sex at a brothel represents a training ground on how to approach women.
> 
> But having sex with a hooker does not prepare one for the building of a relationship, sorry but it doesnt. That isnt how it works in the real world.


Someone who actually used a hooker would be able say best whether it worked as an exposure exercise or not. Seeing as I haven't used a hooker, my views are based on speculation and could be wildly flawed and delusional. Maybe it's not the silver bullet we all hope for.

I take it you also don't see sex surrogates as exposure exercises then either? As these are professional counselors who's explicit purpose and function is to have sex with you to help you overcome sex and relationship issues? Or do you see a difference between sex surrogates and hookers? I personally don't see a difference, with the exception that sex surrogates may be higher quality and better suited for shy socially anxious clients.

Oh and historically hookers did serve as a training ground for men to prepare for their honeymoon. It's only with the "sexual revolution" and the birth of "casual sex" that hookers have lost their main function and gone out of style.


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## rickthegreat (Dec 22, 2008)

Yeah I was gonna mention surrogates. I think they supposedly offer coaching even on where to put their hands and on foreplay etc. They're sex coaches even offer emotional coaching.



WineKitty said:


> ...that somehow paid sex at a brothel represents a training ground on how to approach women...


Yeah I definitely agree that they are not a training ground on how to approach, deal or build relationships with women. Unless you like getting slapped! :b Nah but I think it was more about somehow getting over his fear of women. Based on some of his posts (no offense RussianGuy--and I *am* oversimplifying) but I think he feels he's nowhere near being able to have a relationship with a woman much less *build* one. I could be wrong but he didn't want exposure to dealing with women or building relationships--for that I guess you need an actual relationship--nice catch-22 --but he was seeking exposure to women.

I think he's pretty smart and will figure out that the social dynamics at a brothel between client and a worker are different than between a man and a woman in a conventional romantic relationship. Dear God, I *really* hope so. If not, a few slaps will set him straight. :b LOL. And on an even lighter note, if nothing else it would be like a sex ed lab. :b Hey why don't they have sex ed practicums? <--Nobody *touch* that word. :b

Deep thought:
_"For one human being to love another: that is perhaps the most difficult of our tasks; the ultimate, the last test and proof, the work for which all other work is but preparation."_ --Rainer Maria Rilke


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## Roberto (Aug 16, 2004)

Okay I've never done this, but what you do is call an escort service (seems like the girls on craigslist are usually police stings.) There is an agency fee and a standard "tip" for the escort's services. You want a full service escort. The idea is that you are just paying for her company and a massage, and the sex is something that happens between two consenting adults. There is a website somewhere that goes over the etiquette of this. I looked at it, long ago. The price depends on your location.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Okay....I am not going to keep this going, I am bowing out of this thread and I hope you all realize how difficult it is for me to keep my mouth shut around here. The very fact this thread is allowed shows the ongoing bias against women on SAS that is a fundamental problem with this site. 

Sure, banging hookers = women and relationships. You win. :roll :fall uke


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Roberto said:


> Okay I've never done this, but what you do is call an escort service (seems like the girls on craigslist are usually police stings.) There is an agency fee and a standard "tip" for the escort's services. You want a full service escort. The idea is that you are just paying for her company and a massage, and the sex is something that happens between two consenting adults. There is a website somewhere that goes over the etiquette of this. I looked at it, long ago. The price depends on your location.


those erotic 'massage' parlours are ridiculously easy to find. if i look at the adult personal ads in the papers here, it lists one at every major intersection closest to my house. crazy! i would have no idea they were there, although sometimes i'll see neon signs on the 2nd floor above stores for "24hr massage". then there are the prostitutes hanging out on the streets too, which i don't see as often in this area but i know someone who said they have been propositioned by a prostitute who hung out down the street. she said she had five kids by five different guys, jeez (her services cost $60).


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> Okay....I am not going to keep this going, I am bowing out of this thread and I hope you all realize how difficult it is for me to keep my mouth shut around here. The very fact this thread is allowed shows the ongoing *bias against women on SAS* that is a fundamental problem with this site.
> 
> Sure, banging hookers = women and relationships. You win. :roll :fall uke


Bogus out of the blue claim.

This post isn't worth another infraction, so I'll leave it at that.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

drealm said:


> Bogus out of the blue claim.
> 
> This post isn't worth another infraction, so I'll leave it at that.


As if your claims arent bogus. Because YOU say so it makes it gospel?

Which is why I am bowing out of the thread, in case you havent figured that out. I am well on my way to infractionville if I keep going. Think what you want.


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> As if your claims arent bogus. Because YOU say so it makes it gospel?
> 
> Which is why I am bowing out of the thread, in case you havent figured that out. I am well on my way to infractionville if I keep going. Think what you want.


I'll respond back when my infractions expire next month. Right now I don't have points cleared for ammunition.


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

WineKitty said:


> Not sure what you are saying here? That only certain people can comment on certain threads? :con


I wasn't saying anything by it. I was just curious to see what the numbers would look like. Thanks for clearing that up mindgames. I do kind of wish you had been more specific about what being in a relationship meant. I think you should also add casual dating and casual sex to the poll to get more accurate numbers.

As to your other points, rickthegreat answered them better than I could have. "Desensitized" was the wrong word to use there, "acclimated" to women's bodies would be better.



WineKitty said:


> Okay....I am not going to keep this going, I am bowing out of this thread and I hope you all realize how difficult it is for me to keep my mouth shut around here. The very fact this thread is allowed shows the ongoing bias against women on SAS that is a fundamental problem with this site.
> 
> Sure, banging hookers = women and relationships. You win. :roll :fall uke


I'm sorry if I offended you, but I don't see how we have been expressing bias towards women with this thread. As far as I can tell, most (if not all) of us agreed that paying for sex is not the same as a relationship.

Personally, I don't place much spiritual importance on sex. It is merely an intimate act, which I hear can feel pretty good. I also don't place any value my own virginity.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

*Would it change your perspective?*

I just wonder how many of those in favor of using casual sex as a lauch pad for "learning more about women and relationships" or as a "sex lab with a practicum" would change their views if they had to explain them to their wife and/or daughters.

Having my wife and 2 daughters in the other room, thinking about this whole subject, just about gives me a heart attack, I feel sick...

I need a drink....
I wish I could still drink...****!!!


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## borbiusle (Sep 26, 2009)

I used to participate in a little sub-community online (they referred to themselves as hobbyists). I usually visited private parlours that were invite-only. I have no idea how I got into these places lol, they didn't trust me at all since I was so awkward. Visiting hookers doesn't really build confidence at all since the whole interaction is fake and she'll only say things you want to hear. I only visited these places to experience "exotic" women and it's easy to fall into the trap of wanting more than they can give, like kissing/cuddling/deep conversation. 

If you're just looking to bust a nut, then go ahead. If you're looking to build some skill with dealing with women, you're not gonna learn alot anything going this route.


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## 1applehearts1 (Jan 7, 2010)

if you lose your virginity to a prostitute you will most likely regret it at some point in your near future


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## STKinTHEmud (Jun 21, 2009)

SickPuppy said:


> I just wonder how many of those in favor of using casual sex as a lauch pad for "learning more about women and relationships" or as a "sex lab with a practicum" would change their views if they had to explain them to their wife and/or daughters.


If we had a wife and daughters, we probably wouldn't be considering going to a prostitute to lose our virginity, now would we? I get the sense that you're trying to guilt us into thinking as you do.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

*There has been enough finger pointing and imposing morals in this thread.*


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