# Stimulant anxiety? Forget benzo's, take nebivilol and Candesartan



## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Those 2 safe blood pressure meds COMPLETELTY abolish the anxiety i got off stimulants, FAR FAR superior to benzo's, if anyone has this problem, give those 2 meds a try.


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

I might try one of these, if I go on a stimulant again. I already had a lot of anxiety before the stimulant, so for me, it was hard to tell if my anxiety was any worse. Initially when I started to take a stimulant, I felt like I was calmer, because I was able to concentrate and enjoy things more.

I am only on a low dose (tapering completely off of it now), but even with a stimulant, the good or bad effects from taking them, seemed subtle. On a daily basis, I couldn't tell when the drug kicked in or when it wore off. Perhaps I needed to be on a higher dose, or maybe once I'm completely off of the drug, I'll notice how much I depended on it.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

When i'm on my therapeutic doses of stimulants i cant even leave the house because of extreme paranoia, my SA is gone yeah, but some terrible other anxiety comes into return.


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## lonelygirl88 (Dec 25, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> When i'm on my therapeutic doses of stimulants i cant even leave the house because of extreme paranoia, my SA is gone yeah, but some terrible other anxiety comes into return.


Which stimulants in particular are you referring to?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

lonelygirl88 said:


> Which stimulants in particular are you referring to?


Dexedrine or adderall.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

What do you think of propranolol in place of nebivilol? Do you take both blood pressure medications at the same time? How do you get this stuff prescribed outside of having high blood pressure not controlled on a single medication?
sry for too many questions. I haven't seen this discussed before and it sounds interesting.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Nebivolol does not have an negative effect on insuline sensivity, blood glucose and excercise performance unlike the first generation beta blockers.

I have ordered both meds online, ARB blockers have been discussed before as they have potential in reducing anxiety so i wanted to try cardesertan too, here are some abstracts.


> Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2008 Dec;1148:360-6.
> Peripherally administered angiotensin II AT1 receptor antagonists are anti-stress compounds in vivo.
> Pavel J, Benicky J, Murakami Y, Sanchez-Lemus E, Saavedra JM.
> 
> ...





> Angiotensin II: multitasking in the brain.
> Saavedra JM, Benicky J, Zhou J.
> 
> Section on Pharmacology, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, Department of Health and Human Services, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA. [email protected]
> ...





> Neuropsychopharmacology. 2006 Jun;31(6):1123-34.
> A centrally acting, anxiolytic angiotensin II AT1 receptor antagonist prevents the isolation stress-induced decrease in cortical CRF1 receptor and benzodiazepine binding.
> Saavedra JM, Armando I, Bregonzio C, Juorio A, Macova M, Pavel J, Sanchez-Lemus E.
> 
> ...


I started them both at the same time so cant tell exactly wich one does what, i think they are both contributing to the end result.

Ive ordered them online but shouldnt be too hard to get prescribed!


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Interesting. I didn't know ARBs had an anti-anxiety effect. Not sure how easy it would be to get them prescribed though. They could be prescribed for high blood pressure resulting from stimulants, though in this situation some docs might opt for reducing the dose of / discontinuing the stimulant.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Its a matter of finding an easy doc, afterall it are just blood pressure meds and not benzo's or amphetamine's, can only say good luck here.


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## n95 (Jul 17, 2010)

thx for sharing experience, definitely will try and get mu hands on some, and of course if i do, I will share the experience I've had.

good luck, and good health to all you guys


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

n95 said:


> thx for sharing experience, definitely will try and get mu hands on some, and of course if i do, I will share the experience I've had.
> 
> good luck, and good health to all you guys


Allright, keep us updated.

I dont know wich med does most work, so try to get both!


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

crayzyMed said:


> When i'm on my therapeutic doses of stimulants i cant even leave the house because of extreme paranoia, my SA is gone yeah, but some terrible other anxiety comes into return.


I haven't had any paranoia, but it's still really hard to leave the house whether I'm on a stimulant or not. I thought you meant a stimulant might create or exacerbate a generalized anxiety problem.

That's good to know that the first generation beta blockers might not be the best choice. Initially, I was thinking of getting propranolol too.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

redtogo72 said:


> I haven't had any paranoia, but it's still really hard to leave the house whether I'm on a stimulant or not. I thought you meant a stimulant might create or exacerbate a generalized anxiety problem.
> 
> That's good to know that the first generation beta blockers might not be the best choice. Initially, I was thinking of getting propranolol too.


They induce some differend anxiety unrelated to SA for me, hard to explain, they dont make my "real" anxiety worse, actually drastically reduce it.


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## doze (Aug 9, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> They induce some differend anxiety unrelated to SA for me, hard to explain, they dont make my "real" anxiety worse, actually drastically reduce it.


 Yes I have the same problem 
usually first 2-3 hours i have euphoria, social anxiety decrease,no general anxiety
then i have comedown=> general anxiety increase,depression (fear of sudden death,accidents etc)
but this is not permanent side effect sometime i have it sometime i dont
yestarday i took adderall with galantamine and had completly different result 20mg worked all day no comedown no general anxiety but cause heavy dark depression.(?)
so far amfetamines work unstable, unpredictable for me(mood swings, crashes or no crashes)
today i just took 20mg and now having cold sweaty hands and feet(?)


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

In my experience 40mg memantine solved the horrible crash problem and the addition of those 2 meds solved the anxiety problem.

Without memantine, dexedrine works 2 hours and then it gives horrible anxiety, now it works 5 hours like it should, and with those 2 meds zero anxiety!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

To make things even better:


> J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 2001 Dec;38 Suppl 3:S33-5.
> Metabolic effects and safety profile of nebivolol.
> Pessina AC.
> Department of Clinical and Experimental Medicine, University of Padua, Italy.
> ...





> Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2000 Oct;50(4):377-9.
> Nebivolol decreases systemic oxidative stress in healthy volunteers.
> Troost R, Schwedhelm E, Rojczyk S, Tsikas D, Frölich JC.
> Institute of Clinical Pharmacology, Hannover Medical School, Germany. [email protected]
> ...





> [Effect of nebivolol on the state of pituitary-gonadal system and lipid peroxidation in young and middle aged men with hypertension]
> 
> [Article in Russian]
> 
> ...


ARB blockers:


> Disruption of the Ang II type 1 receptor promotes longevity in mice.
> Benigni A, Corna D, Zoja C, Sonzogni A, Latini R, Salio M, Conti S, Rottoli D, Longaretti L, Cassis P, Morigi M, Coffman TM, Remuzzi G.
> 
> Mario Negri Institute for Pharmacological Research, Via Gavazzeni 11, Bergamo, Italy. [email protected]
> ...





> Angiotensin receptors as determinants of life span.
> Cassis P, Conti S, Remuzzi G, Benigni A.
> 
> Mario Negri Institute for Pharmacological Research, Via Gavazzeni, 11, 24125 Bergamo, Italy.
> ...





> Behav Brain Res. 2009 May 16;199(2):235-40. Epub 2008 Dec 3.
> Candesartan improves memory decline in mice: involvement of AT1 receptors in memory deficit induced by intracerebral streptozotocin.
> Tota S, Kamat PK, Awasthi H, Singh N, Raghubir R, Nath C, Hanif K.
> 
> ...


And the above abstracts about anxiety and lots of other good stuff on pubmed.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Downside of ARB's:



> Researchers from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland examined data from previous trials of ARBs. They also looked at new cancer data in five trials involving 61,590 patients, common types of cancers (lung, prostate, breast) in another five trials of 68,402 patients, and cancer deaths in eight trials involving 93,515 patients.
> 
> Most of the patients in these trials (85.7%) had received the ARB telmisartan.
> 
> ...


http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-h...s/20100614/blood-pressure-drugs-linked-cancer


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## JWadd (Sep 17, 2010)

Crazymed, do you feel the two antihypertensives which you mentioned are more efficient for this purpose than all other drugs in the same class; bb's and arb's? I have been taking a good dose of dexedrine every day for several years and have been on a mission to find which antihypertensive drug works best in combination with amp. I have used clonidine and found it to be beneficial in smoothing out some of the unwanted peripheral nervous system stimulation. L-Theanine is an amino acid, which is derived from green tea and a natural influencer of GABA. I believe this is the reason why you become less jittery drinking a bunch of green tea than other beverages with caffiene. I have been curious about other antihypertensives, such as *Carvedilol, **Phentolamine, and possibly the nardivi*


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I think that every beta blocker will work just as good, but nebivilol lacks the long term side effects and the acute side effects of other beta blockers. As for candesartan, all arb's should work as good except maybe telmisertan since it doesnt increase agonism of AT2 and the other angiotensin receptors (by blocking AT1, the other receptors are agonized more).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

What amount in mg of dexedrine or Adderall induce extreme paranoia in you?

I personally haven't experienced that.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

UltraShy said:


> What amount in mg of dexedrine or Adderall induce extreme paranoia in you?
> 
> I personally haven't experienced that.


5 or 10mg, i'm very sensitive to stimulant induced paranoia:b. Wich used to be a pain in the *** since stimulants are the only thing capable of reducing my SA.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

crayzyMed said:


> 5 or 10mg, i'm very sensitive to stimulant induced paranoia:b. Wich used to be a pain in the *** since stimulants are the only thing capable of reducing my SA.


I get my Dex IR in 10 mg pills and take either whole or half, so you're far more sensitive than me.

I've never taken any amount that induced paranoia, though I've never exceeded 35 mg in a day as I just never felt the need to.


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## JWadd (Sep 17, 2010)

I just got back from the doc, He gave me a script for Bistolic (nebivolol). In addition to having a lower side effect profile, I was curious to see if the nitric oxide potentiating vasodilatory effect of this drug would have an added benefit when combined with d-amp. I am going to start at a dose of 10 mg for the first week. What is your dose crazymed?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

JWadd said:


> I just got back from the doc, He gave me a script for Bistolic (nebivolol). In addition to having a lower side effect profile, I was curious to see if the nitric oxide potentiating vasodilatory effect of this drug would have an added benefit when combined with d-amp. I am going to start at a dose of 10 mg for the first week. What is your dose crazymed?


5mg is enough for me, but i combine it with something else, altough id start with 5mg to see wheter thats enough for stim anxiety, if its not go up. (above 5mg it loses its selectivity for the beta receptor).

Dunno wheter the vasodilation will have any benefits, its an added bonus since amphetamine tends to be vasoconstrictive, but wont do anything you can notice.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> *Norepinephrine signaling through beta-adrenergic receptors is critical for expression of cocaine-induced anxiety.*
> Schank JR, Liles LC, Weinshenker D.
> 
> Department of Human Genetics, Emory University, Atlanta, GA 30322, USA.
> ...


Probably simular with amphetamine, so beta blockers are a very good way to block stimulant induced anxiety (atleast this study suggests so and my experience confirms that).


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## JWadd (Sep 17, 2010)

OK, I have been on 5 mg for the past three days. I plan on staying at this dose for 7 days and then will decide on whether to increase to 10 mg depending on whether or not my BP readings are back within normal range at that point. Still slight hypertension at this point.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

JWadd said:


> OK, I have been on 5 mg for the past three days. I plan on staying at this dose for 7 days and then will decide on whether to increase to 10 mg depending on whether or not my BP readings are back within normal range at that point. Still slight hypertension at this point.


Are you only taking this for BP or do you also have increased anxiety on amp? Yeah that sounds like a good plan.


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## Banana Cream (Aug 22, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> Dexedrine or adderall.


That's what they did to me too, but Desoxyn so much better. However, at 3 months I started getting nausea- not sure if it is that or Xanax/ Xanax daily withdrawal warning?


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

If you have racing thoughts or OCD would they be worsened by drugs like adderall, or would they help only if it's related to ADHD? I'm not sure if I qualify for ADHD or not but I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get one of these for depression (maybe not desoxyn lol). But I'm worried from its reputation as a study drug, I don't need anything making my mind sharper or more creative at ruining my life, I got that covered already.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

UltraShy said:


> What amount in mg of dexedrine or Adderall induce extreme paranoia in you?
> 
> I personally haven't experienced that.


I second the motion!


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Under17 said:


> If you have racing thoughts or OCD would they be worsened by drugs like adderall, or would they help only if it's related to ADHD? I'm not sure if I qualify for ADHD or not but I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get one of these for depression (maybe not desoxyn lol). But I'm worried from its reputation as a study drug, I don't need anything making my mind sharper or more creative at ruining my life, I got that covered already.


Stimulants work GREAT for my ocd! Just as good as they work for social anxiety, the paranoia they give me is unrelated to OCD or SA.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Banana Cream said:


> That's what they did to me too, but Desoxyn so much better. However, at 3 months I started getting nausea- not sure if it is that or Xanax/ Xanax daily withdrawal warning?


Withdrawal warning?

Ive got no idea, would be strange if desoxyn starts inducing nausia only after 3 months.
I wish i could get desoxyn lol, but its not available here.


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## Banana Cream (Aug 22, 2010)

Yeah, xanax is so short acting that desoxyn could "push" it out of my system and give me one of the earliest withdrawal symptoms- nausea.


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## Forza Italia (Oct 30, 2009)

How come you only have the abstracts ? Do you now how to get the whole article ?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Forza Italia said:


> How come you only have the abstracts ? Do you now how to get the whole article ?


?

I can get most full texts with pubget, why?


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## Forza Italia (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't like reading the abstracts because that kind of information is too much compromising to adequatly base a conclusion upon it. I would like to read the fulltexts and preferably some citings of it and above all, a review. Any idea how to come across that ?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

What abstracts do you want the full text off? List them and i'l see wheter i can acces them tomorrow (cant look now as i dont have the login data on this computer).


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## Forza Italia (Oct 30, 2009)

Well, actually every abstract article that I come across here, so that I can discuss with some of you here too. I want you to teach me how if it's okay. Normally, my college has is prescribed with PubMed, but I still can't seem to find the full articles, the citings, the references or the reviews :s


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Forza Italia said:


> Well, actually every abstract article that I come across here, so that I can discuss with some of you here too. I want you to teach me how if it's okay. Normally, my college has is prescribed with PubMed, but I still can't seem to find the full articles, the citings, the references or the reviews :s


Make a account on pubget as a start, on there you can read the full papers, but youll also need the login data, your college should provide you with that, once you have that, you can further login into pubget and youll have acces.


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## Forza Italia (Oct 30, 2009)

Thx, I'll check it out!

edit: Thx, it works now. I can see the 'sfx' mark.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Forza Italia said:


> Thx, I'll check it out!
> 
> edit: Thx, it works now. I can see the 'sfx' mark.


Cool, if you have more questions you can PM me


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm sure it was nebivolol that was doing most of the work, i ran out and get anxiety on 10mg of dexedrine right now.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I took my chances and tried to get nebivolol from a pharmacy without prescription (saying id bring it tomorrow) first one didnt work, but second was a hit lol, so just took 5mg to take care of that amp anxiety, allways worked like a charm.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Nebivolol significantly reduced the anxiety but didnt completely eliminate it, so i'm pretty sure it was the combination of candesartan and nebivolol that completely abolishes the anxiety.

I switched to telmisartan because it also activates the PPAR-delta-dependent lipolytic pathways, however it doesnt increase angiotensin II wich could be essential for the anxiolytic effects, so i just took a dose of candesartan and it seems to be kicking in, the last bit of my anxiety is going away.

I'l probably keep on taking the combo of candesartan and telmisartan, more AT1 antagonism seems to be only beneficial from what ive read B) .


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

So for anyone that wants to counteract amphetamine induced anxiety, it does appears that the 2 meds togheter are needed.


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## MilkWasABadChoice (Nov 16, 2010)

I was just put on clonidine for anxiet, which is a direct-acting a2 andregenic agonist. Is this similar to nebivolol?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

MilkWasABadChoice said:


> I was just put on clonidine for anxiet, which is a direct-acting a2 andregenic agonist. Is this similar to nebivolol?


No, nebivolol is a B1 receptor blocker.



> Pharmacology and biochemistry
> 
> [edit]β1 Selectivity
> Beta blockers help patients with cardiovascular disease by blocking β1 receptors, while many of the side-effects of these medications are caused by their blockade of β2 receptors.[3] For this reason, beta blockers that selectively block β1 receptors (termed cardioselective or β1-selective beta blockers) produce fewer adverse effects (for instance, bronchoconstriction) than those drugs that non-selectively block both β1 and β2 receptors. Nebilovol has been marketed by Micro Labs Ltd under the brand name "Nebilong" and by Menarani under the name Bystolic
> ...


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