# Why are guys so pretty?



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Let's talk about guys, guys. The first guys being guys the second guys being everyone.

*Edit:* I'm not actually asking this as a serious question lol. This is an old thread that someone decided to bump. The title was taken from another thread called 'why are girls so pretty.' Also I got tired of guys saying all guys are ugly.


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## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

I don't know. I can't help it. It just comes naturally.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)




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## Steinerz (Jul 15, 2013)

I'm not pretty. I'm handsome.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

I don't think that I am "pretty" or good looking in any way. When I look in the mirror I see a hideous person. Sorry to disappoint you.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Steinerz said:


> I'm not pretty. I'm handsome.












Fiiiiine then.


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## Steinerz (Jul 15, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Fiiiiine then.












Mm yes mhm.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Steinerz said:


> Mm yes mhm.












I'm kind of confused now, but also kind of want to see where this adventure will go, but I also have to go. So. I'll check back and see what's happened later if this thread is still around because complete chaos hasn't ensued.


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## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

(no ****)


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## Valter (Jan 20, 2016)

Pretty about what you see is normal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Because my baby face, perfect facial hair, and my tall, thin, and lightly muscular frame. That's why


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## Ominous Indeed (Sep 6, 2015)

I am coming to this thread in .. ready to fight!

Because there are so many wars on SAS, lets make one more, lets fight about which one is prettier 

Girls are prettier than Boys


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## Valter (Jan 20, 2016)

RelinquishedHell said:


> Because my baby face, perfect facial hair, and my tall, thin, and lightly muscular frame. That's why


Are you pretty?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Demon Soul said:


> Girls are prettier than Boys


I agree, no matter my best efforts. Any girl is gonna be prettier than me. Just the way it is.

Girls are just so soft, curvy, and sweet. Nothing can beat them.

I actually almost never see a guy that looks good. Most guys don't take care of themselves at all. Almost every guy I see has an ugly face, pot belly, and looks unwashed. I actually feel bad for girls for not having much to choose from.


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## ByStorm (Oct 22, 2013)

Because I'm baby faced, baby :3.


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## Evo1114 (Dec 9, 2012)

Cuz' they just have more attractive features then women. More hard, masculine ones. 

Plus penis.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

This thread isn't gonna get much replies.


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## someone123 (Jan 12, 2016)

Cuz' boobs.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

someone123 said:


> Cuz' boobs.


That's gross. Even girls are gross.


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## Stilla (May 13, 2009)

Evo1114 said:


> Cuz' they just have more attractive features then women. More hard, masculine ones.
> 
> Plus penis.


Qft


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## ShatteredGlass (Oct 12, 2012)

bc you think they are... attractiveness is subjective

is nobody going to listen to the smartest person in the room


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## unemployment simulator (Oct 18, 2015)

how do some men or boys have such amazing natural looks? they have stunning white teeth (brush them the same amount as most), no bags or dark circles under their eyes (even when they are stressed or have little sleep), perfect hair, perfect muscle tone (even though they don't work out). its like these people came from a robot production line! I feel like a monster when I walk into a room full of people that look like this. they have no imperfections!! are they real?


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## surviving (Oct 2, 2015)

unemploymentsimulator2016 said:


> how do some men or boys have such amazing natural looks? they have stunning white teeth (brush them the same amount as most), no bags or dark circles under their eyes (even when they are stressed or have little sleep), perfect hair, perfect muscle tone (even though they don't work out). its like these people came from a robot production line! I feel like a monster when I walk into a room full of people that look like this. they have no imperfections!! are they real?


I wouldn't be surprised if some of those guy's pictures were photoshopped and airbrushed to look more perfect.  That and some men do wear makeup XD


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## unemployment simulator (Oct 18, 2015)

surviving said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if some of those guy's pictures were photoshopped and airbrushed to look more perfect.  That and some men do wear makeup XD


could be camera trickery for sure, I see them on tv looking that good too. maybe that is the makeup?
im pretty sure I have been in social situations and seen people like this though.
maybe the robot infiltration master race has begun? :sus


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## Kovu (Jun 18, 2013)

Girls like pretty guys now.


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## sabbath9 (Dec 30, 2014)




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## 7th.Streeter (May 11, 2011)

Steinerz said:


> Mm yes mhm.


Daaaaaammmn...

Anyway, idk guys are definitely my weakness..if I didn't have Sa and was normal, id definitely have 2 kids by now &#128517; lol.
But yah, guys are just sexy.. I guess I love the contrast, where as I'm soft,feminine and they're rugged and masculine. I love it !

But now I'm sad, BC I dont have a man and probably never will. &#128557; lol uhh fml lol


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Because


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## 7th.Streeter (May 11, 2011)

peace_love said:


> You're young still...you will def find someone to have babies with.


But I'm 24 tho soon ill be 25 .. Then 30.. O.O so idk.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Majority of guys are ugly.


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## Odinn (Dec 15, 2012)

Everyone is just so damn pretty!


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

tfw you will never have sex with or be a 10/10 model hot guy 
why live
why even live, op?


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## Dark Shines (Feb 11, 2013)

I think the Cat said it best, "I bring pleasure to the world, because I have such a beautiful ***." :-

- 




In truth, I'm probably more Dwayne Dibley(His geeky, charmless alter ego for non Dwarfers)


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## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

They aren't, though. Well, the majority definitely aren't.


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

7th.Streeter said:


> Daaaaaammmn...
> 
> Anyway, idk guys are definitely my weakness..if I didn't have Sa and was normal, id definitely have 2 kids by now &#128517; lol.
> But yah, guys are just sexy..* I guess I love the contrast, where as I'm soft,feminine and they're rugged and masculine. I love it !
> ...


I'm more of a fem boi myself.
--
on topic, I think physically girls have the edge, but when a guy can be kind or say something intelligent to me, dayummmmm, that's attractive. emotionally, guys have been getting to me lately, even if they don't look all that great, lol.


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## Cletis (Oct 10, 2011)




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## farfegnugen (Aug 16, 2010)

hairy knuckles


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Dark Shines said:


> I think the Cat said it best, "I bring pleasure to the world, because I have such a beautiful ***." :-
> 
> -
> 
> ...


lol Cat is great. Speaking of ***:


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## 7th.Streeter (May 11, 2011)

Nathan18 said:


> They aren't, though. Well, the majority definitely aren't.


Lol I've been texting you. Where have yew beeennnn lol


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Most guys aren't pretty. Only a very small percentage who have won the genetic lottery truly are. There are more handsome men though. I see so many girls that are into those kpop guys now but that's an unrealistic beauty standard. Most guys simply don't look like that without plastic surgery.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

LichtLune said:


> Most guys aren't pretty. Only a very small percentage who have won the genetic lottery truly are. There are more handsome men though. I see so many girls that are into those kpop guys now but that's an unrealistic beauty standard. Most guys simply don't look like that without plastic surgery.


Meh most beauty standards are. But I see plenty of good looking guys out and about or even online, and many pretty guys too. Sans plastic surgery but some do wear makeup or style their hair etc.


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## JohnDoe26 (Jun 6, 2012)

I seriously ask myself this question sometimes. Maybe it's just the area I live in, but I swear some days it seems like the majority of men on the street look like they came out of a GQ cover. And a lot of them are tall...


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## Dark Shines (Feb 11, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> lol Cat is great.


Yeah, he's pretty inspirational and deadpool could just as well be a member here.lol I can't wait for series 11 and 12, they were right back on form with 10. Some more classic vanity from the Cat. :-


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## thinkstoomuch101 (Jun 7, 2012)

nubly said:


> Majority of guys are ugly.


speak for yourself, Nubby.

This guy? No photo shop, no air brushing.. just pure alpha!


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## thinkstoomuch101 (Jun 7, 2012)

and this guy.. even when he tries the "vulnerable look"..


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## thinkstoomuch101 (Jun 7, 2012)

men are hawt.. there's always something about them that just makes them that way..

(and i think they know it)..


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

@dune87


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

thinkstoomuch101 said:


> speak for yourself, Nubby.
> 
> This guy? *No photo shop, no air brushing*.. just pure alpha!


you gotta be kidding me, thats so photoshopped it looks like its not even in focus

if you reverse image search that pic you will find 3 different versions of that photograph where he has drastically different skin colour in each pic


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## dune87 (Aug 10, 2015)

Surly Wurly said:


> @dune87


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

dune87 said:


>


get OUTTA HERE with that nose good GRIEF


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## dune87 (Aug 10, 2015)

Surly Wurly said:


> get OUTTA HERE with that nose good GRIEF


Youre just jealous because my pout is puffier


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

dune87 said:


> Youre just jealous because my pout is puffier


oh look its your nose getting made


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## dune87 (Aug 10, 2015)

Surly Wurly said:


> oh look its your nose getting made


See? You made the connection too ^^ thats how i get all the ladies


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

dune87 said:


> See? You made the connection too ^^ thats how i get all the ladies


oh _you _


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## reaffected (Sep 3, 2011)

farfegnugen said:


> hairy knuckles


this x 10.


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## thinkstoomuch101 (Jun 7, 2012)

Surly Wurly said:


> you gotta be kidding me, thats so photoshopped it looks like its not even in focus
> 
> if you reverse image search that pic you will find 3 different versions of that photograph where he has drastically different skin colour in each pic


That's okay, Surly.. because he's even hotter in person.. Kate Middleton damn near dropped her drawers right there in front of Prince of her a husband when she met Idris.

:twisted:twisted:twisted


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## Surly Wurly (May 9, 2015)

thinkstoomuch101 said:


> That's okay, Surly.. because he's even hotter in person.. Kate Middleton damn near dropped her drawers right there in front of Prince of her a husband when she met Idris.
> 
> :twisted:twisted:twisted


pics or it never happened

edit - and he may well be a handsome man but your photoshop literacy leaves a lot to be desired


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)




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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Surly Wurly said:


> you gotta be kidding me, thats so photoshopped it looks like its not even in focus
> 
> if you reverse image search that pic you will find 3 different versions of that photograph where he has drastically different skin colour in each pic


I was thinking the same thing.

Also, I've just realized why I have an aversion to beards/facial hair. Pubes.


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## Arbre (Mar 9, 2014)

:love2


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

reaffected said:


> this x 10.


lol.. so..... i shouldnt shave my bear- hands then? is that a razor too far ? 

mine are slightly hairy lol....

woman are pretty... guys can be handsome. I think those are the masculine and feminine words best used to describe people.... they are kinda different.
I dont think i am pretty.. becasue that seems feminized to me.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

KILOBRAVO said:


> lol.. so..... i shouldnt shave my bear- hands then? is that a razor too far ?
> 
> mine are slightly hairy lol....
> 
> ...


OK but the other thread was titled pretty and I must point out that Ezra Miller's face alone makes all arguments invalid.

As does this cat:










'But H20 _is_ the chemical symbol for-' No, all arguments.


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## BullyPatrol (Nov 8, 2015)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Fiiiiine then.


That's a cute boy.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

It's like you people who think women are more attractive than men have never even seen good-looking men.


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## Unicornlaserhorn (Jul 25, 2014)




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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

BullyPatrol said:


> That's a cute boy.


I know right? I posted that photo mostly because I wanted a reaction pic for the post I quoted but it works on multiple levels. I guess I can't call him a boy though cause looking up his age he's 35, a good decade older than me lol.


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## JustThisGuy (Mar 24, 2012)

Sometimes you just look good to somebody. I'm baffled every time a compliment comes my way when it comes to my appearance or physicality. 


...anyone?  Jk.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

It is all illusion, a few snapshots taken in the right conditions, video recorded in a specific manner to reach your appeal. These guys could pass most of you in real life and you would likely not take notice, you just have been told this is what is attractive, you have been given an artificial lense of which to view the world. They capitalize on women models as well.

None of us are really pretty, most of us do not fit that image.


Blah blah blah, I'm just jealous.. phatooey!


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

zonebox said:


> It is all illusion, a few snapshots taken in the right conditions, video recorded in a specific manner to reach your appeal. These guys could pass most of you in real life and you would likely not take notice, you just have been told this is what is attractive, you have been given an artificial lense of which to view the world. They capitalize on women models as well.
> 
> None of us are really pretty, most of us do not fit that image.
> 
> Blah blah blah, I'm just jealous.. phatooey!


A lot of it is also whether they shaved recently or not, how much sleep, whether they showered just an hour ago or if they've been standing at work all day already... And a dozen other factors... Every guy I know including myself has a range of good days and bad days... Good years and bad years..


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## xxDark Horse (May 13, 2015)

Not every guy is pretty. In fact, most men arne't considered pretty at all. Unless they're in their 20s and still have a cute baby face and dress nice. Most men eventually lose the baby face look in their 20s.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Pretty is for girly men. Ruggedly handsome is were it's at.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

most guys ( not all) actually look like scruffs and I can't remember noticing many pretty guys however fair enough, i'm.also not looking to notice that. woman traditionally are always waaayyyyyy better to look at than males.

I'm.not a scruff however. yet, I've also been called handsome, good looking , and on an occasion I found out I was called fit so its also not an illusion. not that I care much what people think now about that anymore ... I'm.happy within myself about my appearance and that's way more important .

pretty is for ladies and handsome or good looking is for males.


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## Jadewolf (Sep 8, 2016)

> *Why are guys so pretty?*


I've no idea


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## Svarog11 (Jul 15, 2016)

all you care about is their looks reeee


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## PrincessV (Aug 17, 2015)

There ARE pretty men, they are flawless in looks and character, but it's all in the beholders eyes. I won't name him, but he is perfect. :love2 He's fictional BUT I don't care.


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## KelsKels (Oct 4, 2011)

nubly said:


> Pretty is for girly men. Ruggedly handsome is were it's at.


Agreed. I'm not super into "pretty" or feminine men.

Cut some trees, crush some sh**. Then crush me... Ayyyoooo!! :b


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## KelsKels (Oct 4, 2011)

Maggied29 said:


>


F*** bois aren't cute. I feel like he spends more money on his nails than I do lol


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## PrincessV (Aug 17, 2015)

KelsKels said:


> F*** bois aren't cute. I feel like he spends more money on his nails than I do lol


lol you're always so funny. :grin2:


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

CosmicJester said:


> Most guys are not pretty. They are ugly.
> 
> Guys do not take care of themselves because they noticed a trend of women dating lots of ugly guys.
> 
> Now if you do a google search you will find a lot of hot guys. But in real life they are rare.


Dude did you really bump my old thread just to post this. Rude.

lol I made this thread ages ago in response to a thread that was floating around at the time called 'why are girls so pretty' but I do like pretty, pretty guys and other cute guys. Though definitions of pretty vary anyway.

Seeing as this thread has been necrobumped though I might as well repost some gifs and images I recently posted in another thread here.



















Also for the record you can look kinda feminine but not be feminine at all. E.g Andrew Eldritch circa 1980s:






This is not the best example physically but this song is stupidly catchy and I've been listening to too much 80s music lately.


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## sarah089 (Aug 28, 2013)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> I don't think that I am "pretty" or good looking in any way. When I look in the mirror I see a hideous person. Sorry to disappoint you.


That saddens me to read this. :c I'm sure you aren't hideous.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

What defines a pretty boy?


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

sarah089 said:


> That saddens me to read this. :c I'm sure you aren't hideous.


Well a female member on here called me "Sexy" once, so I guess there is hope for me after all... lolz.

>


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Also for the record you can look kinda feminine but not be feminine at all. E.g Andrew Eldritch circa 1980s:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG! How did I forget about this album! I was obsessed with it ... when it came out ... 30 years ago.

Oh.

Anyway, I'm going to avoid spamming your thread with hot men you won't find attractive. Cause I'm nice like that.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

truant said:


> OMG! How did I forget about this album! I was obsessed with it ... when it came out ... 30 years ago.
> 
> Oh.
> 
> Anyway, I'm going to avoid spamming your thread with hot men you won't find attractive. Cause I'm nice like that.


Lol you can if you like in fact that's probably a good idea because I didn't want it to be about just one look. Especially a look most guys don't want to imitate :')


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## flyingMint (Aug 31, 2015)

Im not _pretty_

I'm SEXY

*walks out*

lel jk I'm a human potato...


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## Mondo_Fernando (Jun 26, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> What defines a pretty boy?


An older woman said I was a pretty boy.

From what I understand, a pretty boy is a man that is well presented with neat haircut, clothes, etc. Basically pretty like a woman is presentation wise.

I was told I should be a woman as my looks are wasted on a man.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

It's the feminization. It makes me want to grow a beard sometimes....Actually, I let it grow for two days, but shaved it off because I don't want to look older than I am. :lol

I am millenniummanly! :bat


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## VanitysFiend (Jun 13, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I've been listening to too much 80s music lately.


There ain't no such thing as too much 80's music!


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## Jadewolf (Sep 8, 2016)

gunner21 said:


> What defines a pretty boy?


This


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## Erroll (Jan 18, 2016)

@Persephone The Dread

Why are men so pretty?

Because they match your subjective view of what pretty is. You make them pretty because of what you are. We all 'bestow' pretty on people.

Some people think that 'pretty' is what everyone agrees on as pretty. But 'everyone' never agrees on anything.

Each of us have learned what is pretty through our life experience.

I doubt that even scientifically developed pretty gauges would work for everyone.

Whatever floats your personal boat is pretty, so if you judge yourself as unpretty, that does not hold for everyone else. You never know how pretty you might look through different eyes. So those who judge themselves unpretty are prejudiced that their opinion is superior to others' opinions ,and perhaps a bit too nearsighted sometimes too.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

I wish I wasn't such a puss about posting pics, or I'd post a pic of myself, but meh, that's just never gonna happen. Not on this site, anyway, no ****** way. I have on other sites.

I don't think I look like a "pretty boy", but I have a job in outside sales, and I have to dress the part man. I send my clothes to the dry cleaners oc, I take very good care of myself (I don't have a choice....if I showed up at my job looking like hell that could lead to a phone call that could lead to a real **** storm). I pay attention to detail. I try to make sure I look as good as I possibly can (with my ugly mug). But I'm not one of those guys that spends time looking at themselves in the mirror, ffs....I actually hate mirrors.

I sent a pic to an SAS friend a few years ago (and later met her in person) and she said my goatee and my overall look made me look like a biker, and she said it was kind of badass. Lmfao. If you know my personality you know nothing could be further from the truth. I'm not some badass biker dude. But that's what she said *shrug*

And I honestly don't see what women could possibly see in most guys. In my head (and I know this really doesn't make much sense when you think it through) I see most guys and it just reinforces how straight I am. Just....there is nothing, nothing I find attractive about most guys. Like was mentioned earlier, it seems like 90% of the guys I see are very overweight, they don't take care of themselves, at all.....what's to even attract a woman to a guy like that, but hey, wtf do I know....


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Svarog11 said:


> all you care about is their looks reeee


Nope I like guy's voices a lot too :3 guys have the best voices. Some guys I could probably listen to all day. Higher pitched cute male voices, low cute voices. All kinds of voices.



Jadewolf said:


> This


He went a bit overboard I think but I've seen some artful flower beards in my time. Also glitter beards (that sounds like a nightmare though you'd probably have to shave the beard to make sure you get rid of all the glitter later.) I'm not much a fan of beards in the sexual attraction sense (beard fever didn't get to me,) but I appreciate them in a platonic way and think about how I'll never be Gandalf. I'd put purple flowers in my beard  now and then.


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Guys are only pretty if they look like girls. Well ****


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## SvanThor (Sep 18, 2016)

Because just like femininity, there is a grace to masculinity as well.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

ANX1 said:


> An older woman said I was a pretty boy.
> 
> From what I understand, a pretty boy is a man that is well presented with neat haircut, clothes, etc. Basically pretty like a woman is presentation wise.
> 
> I was told I should be a woman as my looks are wasted on a man.


Heh, I've been called a pretty boy. Funny thing is, I barely spend any time on my appearance. The only thing I do extra is maybe 15-20 mins a week grooming my beard, make sure to always buy fitting clothes and never smell bad. If that makes me a pretty boy, then so be it.


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## Erroll (Jan 18, 2016)

SvanThor said:


> Because just like femininity, there is a grace to masculinity as well.


Great answer!


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## Mondo_Fernando (Jun 26, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> Heh, I've been called a pretty boy. Funny thing is, I barely spend any time on my appearance. The only thing I do extra is maybe 15-20 mins a week grooming my beard, make sure to always buy fitting clothes and never smell bad. If that makes me a pretty boy, then so be it.


That's a pretty boy, less time needed to look good as no makeup needed.

I always thought pretty boy was a Metro style of man that women seem to like.

Like this as an example with hair, clothing, etc -



__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/333125703658180120/

Supposedly comes with added six pack option.


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## Svarog11 (Jul 15, 2016)

@Persephone The Dread I wish I sounded like that but my voice sounds like a screeching raptosaurus that's getting fisted by a tyranorex after just inhaling that gas thingy that makes your voice squeaky


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Svarog11 said:


> @Persephone The Dread I wish I sounded like that but my voice sounds like a screeching raptosaurus that's getting fisted by a tyranorex after just inhaling that gas thingy that makes your voice squeaky


lol I doubt you sound like that.



DistraughtOwl said:


> Guys are only pretty if they look like girls. Well ****


Well I think people just assume guys who look more masculine are 'handsome' not to mention most guys don't want to be described as pretty as you can see from this thread lol. Also if you Google pretty boy this is the first result and I don't think he looks anything like a girl..

http://i.imgur.com/lkapAtv.jpg


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Well I think people just assume guys who look more masculine are 'handsome' not to mention most guys don't want to be described as pretty as you can see from this thread lol. Also if you Google pretty boy this is the first result and I don't think he looks anything like a girl..
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/lkapAtv.jpg


You're kidding right? You give that guy a clean shave and a wig and he will look very girly. He has fairly feminine facial features. Most men don't have those type of features.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

DistraughtOwl said:


> You're kidding right? You give that guy a clean shave and a wig and he will look very girly. He has fairly feminine facial features. Most men don't have those type of features.


He has narrow eyes and a masculine jawline, few people are 100% masculine or feminine but I would not say he looks like a woman.

More guys most people think are attractive that don't look like women:

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2010/database/100531/ryan-gosling-300.jpg

http://img.allw.mn/content/movies/2013/08/8_ian-somerhalder.jpg

http://images.boomsbeat.com/data/images/full/35531/channing-tatum-630-jpg.jpg

Honestly I know you said in posts before you wanted to look more feminine, and you obviously like femininity in women, so I think you've decided it's a universal ideal but it really isn't.


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> He has narrow eyes and a masculine jawline, few people are 100% masculine or feminine but I would not say he looks like a woman.
> 
> More guys most people think are attractive that don't look like women:
> 
> ...












How about now?

What I'm saying is that feminine features are idolized by both genders to some extent. Small noses, fair skin, plump lips, etc.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

DistraughtOwl said:


> How about now?
> 
> What I'm saying is that feminine features are idolized by both genders to some extent. Small noses, fair skin, plump lips, etc.


Everyone looks more feminine with makeup you've also softened his skin and his jawline.. Remember Photoshop doesn't exist in real life.

No. This isn't even a gender thing. People have different preferences in regards to their sexuality.


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Everyone looks more feminine with makeup you've also softened his skin and his jawline.. Remember Photoshop doesn't exist in real life.
> 
> No. This isn't even a gender thing. People have different preferences in regards to their sexuality.


All I did was remove his facial hair, put a wig on him, and some tacked on makeup. Photoshop doesn't exist in real life but foundation sure does. I've worn all kinds of makeup and I've never been able to look all that feminine. It's very difficult without the right facial shape and small nose.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

DistraughtOwl said:


> All I did was remove his facial hair, put a wig on him, and some tacked on makeup. Photoshop doesn't exist in real life but foundation sure does. I've worn all kinds of makeup and I've never been able to look all that feminine. It's very difficult without the right facial shape and small nose.


You look more feminine than he does with makeup, probably without makeup too. I think I had this conversation with you before though you don't seem to see it for some reason I don't know what to say.

If women aren't approaching you/attracted to you, it's not because you don't look feminine enough. There's a sentence I thought I'd never type.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

@DistraughtOwl There are plenty of beautiful masculine men out there. Male and female beauty have different aesthetics, but a man isn't more 'beautiful' just because he's more feminine. Not to most women, anyway.

You're confusing what the aesthetics have in common (symmetry and proportion) with beauty. Male beauty is linked to testosterone, which produces wider jaws, larger chins, more pronounced eyebrows (more pronounced bone structure and facial musculature in general), smaller/narrower eyes (owing in part to the development of eyebrows and to the widening and lengthening of the face in general), and facial hair. These changes do not make a man less beautiful to a woman, though they might make him less 'pretty'.

Feminine features:










Masculine features:










In no universe is Bieber more attractive just because he's more feminine.


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> You look more feminine than he does with makeup, probably without makeup too. I think I had this conversation with you before though you don't seem to see it for some reason I don't know what to say.
> 
> If women aren't approaching you/attracted to you, it's not because you don't look feminine enough. There's a sentence I thought I'd never type.


I cover my nose with contrast and use a lot of filters and things. Besides you haven't seen many photos of me. It's just every time I see a conventionally attractive male he always has a little bitty nose. Which is a case for most of the guys posted here.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

DistraughtOwl said:


> I cover my nose with contrast and use a lot of filters and things. Besides you haven't seen many photos of me. It's just every time I see a conventionally attractive male he always has a little bitty nose. Which is a case for most of the guys posted here.


My nose is pretty wide, not everyone has tiny pointed noses. When I was a kid I'd get a lot of insulting comments on it actually, and some racial based ones. It's odd looking generally though especially if I smile. But I doubt your nose is enough on its own to make people not find you attractive either even in real life.

I mean if you want to attract women there are more important things you should consider then your appearance anyway.


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I mean if you want to attract women there are more important things you should consider then your appearance anyway.


Yeah I'm working on making lots of money but I want to be beautiful for myself not just to attract females.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

DistraughtOwl said:


> Yeah I'm working on making lots of money but I want to be beautiful for myself not just to attract females.


OK but your responses are confusing because lol.. Basically you started off annoyed that women might like guys who look like girls (they for the most part do not past a certain age,) but you ultimately want to look more feminine anyway and you already kinda do. So you want to look very androgynous from the sounds of it? Which is fine but ultimately that will be what makes it more difficult for you to date straight women.

About half the time it sounds like you want to look more feminine because you think it will help you in dating, then the other half of the time you just want to look more feminine because you appreciate the look.

Also it will be more important once you have a job (any job,) to work on your social skills.


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## ChuckyFinster (Aug 2, 2013)

gunner21 said:


> What defines a pretty boy?


you.


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## DistraughtOwl (Mar 1, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> OK but your responses are confusing because lol.. Basically you started off annoyed that women might like guys who look like girls (they for the most part do not past a certain age,) but you ultimately want to look more feminine anyway and you already kinda do. So you want to look very androgynous from the sounds of it? Which is fine but ultimately that will be what makes it more difficult for you to date straight women.
> 
> About half the time it sounds like you want to look more feminine because you think it will help you in dating, then the other half of the time you just want to look more feminine because you appreciate the look.
> 
> Also it will be more important once you have a job (any job,) to work on your social skills.


You made the thread asking why guys are so pretty but it's more along the lines of "Why are guys on the internet so pretty?" Because guys aren't normally seen as being "pretty" irl, handsome maybe. Oh and I do have a job but it's more of a temporary thing until I go back to school.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

DistraughtOwl said:


> You made the thread asking why guys are so pretty but it's more along the lines of "Why are guys on the internet so pretty?" Because guys aren't normally seen as being "pretty" irl, handsome maybe. Oh and I do have a job but it's more of a temporary thing until I go back to school.


Yeah I responded to you saying something similar before actually about how I personally see many attractive guys in real life too earlier in the thread. I literally only made this thread (several months ago,) because at the time I was tired of people constantly claiming all guys are ugly. There was another thread with the same title I just swapped out girls for guys and figured someone would disagree... I didn't realise people later would take issue with the use of pretty. Or that it'd get necrobumped.

That was several months ago though. Someone bumped this thread and a few other old ones and then not long after their account and all their posts mysteriously got deleted either by them or someone else except for quotes. Their profile said 'banned' on it (not temp banned or perma banned just banned,) cause I clicked on it just before that happened. Their post count was 1 even though a second before it was 50 and no way they could have deleted them all that fast. That was pretty weird.

Also this site is loading really slowly again. Jeez it's so broken sometimes.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

ChuckyFinster said:


> you.


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## Rickets (May 5, 2014)

gunner21 said:


> What defines a pretty boy?


I would think probably androgynous/feminine type features face wise.

High cheekbones, thicker upper lips, styled hair among others. I have those, and iirc you have some of those features too. Not a bad thing, I prefer it over a baby face.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

_₮here is̍ n̲o̲ beauty f̼ou͇̼̮nd within ma᷿sc͠ulinity̔. Ɲàtur᷅e ͖itself is evidence͓ o᷉f that. Ǥuys with f͐emin̞ine feature᷂s g᷾et called 'prettyͩ gu͈ys' b͇e͇c͇a͇u͇s͇e͇ they ̣᷄᷁have ͅfe̲mi̞nine features. Ωtherwise, tͅhey get called ̙'hͣandsome'.͘ Ðo ̆y̤ou kn᷃ow why ͙females ar̈́e of͚ten considered the m̹ore̻ ̢beautȉful sex? ℑt ̌is be͉c̃aus͞e the͔ mājͭorit͋y of the᷾m lack masculine̴ features, indi͂cating that ̃beaut̎y is an i̺nher̅͏ently femi͟nineͭ trait. ₸hi̷s is ̤simp͝ly ẗhe t̲r̲u̲t̲h̲.̲ Λnd̠ it isn'̌t s͔ur͘prising̊ at a̺ll,᷂ considering the fe͋male body doesn't su͓ffer n͓early as̛ͥ mucͭh fro͢m the po͔iso᷿nous,͑ b̻eͨauty des͆troying effects of̑ ͡the can̻cͦer ̅called '̶t̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶'̶.̶_


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

What about all the plus sized men being forced to conform to societies unrealistic expectations of a muscular masculine physique?


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## Overdrive (Sep 19, 2015)

truant said:


> @*DistraughtOwl* There are plenty of beautiful masculine men out there. Male and female beauty have different aesthetics, but a man isn't more 'beautiful' just because he's more feminine. Not to most women, anyway.
> 
> You're confusing what the aesthetics have in common (symmetry and proportion) with beauty. Male beauty is linked to testosterone, which produces wider jaws, larger chins, more pronounced eyebrows (more pronounced bone structure and facial musculature in general), smaller/narrower eyes (owing in part to the development of eyebrows and to the widening and lengthening of the face in general), and facial hair. These changes do not make a man less beautiful to a woman, though they might make him less 'pretty'.
> 
> ...


This is sexy, his got it all, some women would kill for him.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

It's funny, these threads with all these good looking men make me feel insecure. I wonder if that's how women feel when they see threads filled with pictures of ideal women.


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## The Library of Emma (Mar 3, 2016)

Maggied29 said:


>





Steinerz said:


>


Am i the only one who thinks these guys are intensely creepy? they look like slightly aged-out cast members from a teen vampire flick. I can see why someone might find them attractive, but watch your neck...


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _₮here is̍ n̲o̲ beauty f̼ou͇̼̮nd within ma᷿sc͠ulinity̔. Ɲàtur᷅e ͖itself is evidence͓ o᷉f that. Ǥuys with f͐emin̞ine feature᷂s g᷾et called 'prettyͩ gu͈ys' b͇e͇c͇a͇u͇s͇e͇ they ̣᷄᷁have ͅfe̲mi̞nine features. Ωtherwise, tͅhey get called ̙'hͣandsome'.͘ Ðo ̆y̤ou kn᷃ow why ͙females ar̈́e of͚ten considered the m̹ore̻ ̢beautȉful sex? ℑt ̌is be͉c̃aus͞e the͔ mājͭorit͋y of the᷾m lack masculine̴ features, indi͂cating that ̃beaut̎y is an i̺nher̅͏ently femi͟nineͭ trait. ₸hi̷s is ̤simp͝ly ẗhe t̲r̲u̲t̲h̲.̲ Λnd̠ it isn'̌t s͔ur͘prising̊ at a̺ll,᷂ considering the fe͋male body doesn't su͓ffer n͓early as̛ͥ mucͭh fro͢m the po͔iso᷿nous,͑ b̻eͨauty des͆troying effects of̑ ͡the can̻cͦer ̅called '̶t̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶'̶.̶_


Calling bs on your bs-y bs. 

Men and women have different _aesthetics_, because testosterone. But the effects of testosterone, _by themselves_, have zero impact on _human_ beauty, only on where on the spectrum between male and female beauty a person lies. (And it's a complete spectrum: there are beautiful men, beautiful androgynes, and beautiful women.) Human beauty is based on _health, symmetry, and proportion_ -- none of which testosterone interferes with. You can prefer feminine beauty over masculine beauty, but it doesn't make any sense to say that women are more beautiful than men. (Though trust me: I 100% understand preferring the female aesthetic for yourself as a person, since I hate being cursed by testosterone myself.)

In our culture (and bear in mind, there have been plenty of cultures that prefer male beauty) there's a knee-jerk tendency to equate women and beauty and men and ugliness; that's a consequence of the way human attributes are divided between the genders (like men = strong, women = weak, or men = unemotional, women = emotional). That's an artifact of culture and the way our brains organize and filter cognitive categories: the cultural assumptions predispose us to look for beauty in women and for ugliness in men, we find what we're looking for (since both women and men provides plenty of examples of both) and we're satisfied with the results (of our incredibly biased search).

This cultural bias is reinforced by the media, which consistently focuses on female beauty and rarely notices male beauty -- not because it doesn't exist, but because women are defined by their beauty and men aren't. This cultural bias also leads women to take more care over their appearance than men, which adds to the bias; you're more likely to see an 'attractive' woman than an attractive man simply because most women are worrying about their appearance and most men aren't. (Should we really be surprised by any other result?)

There's a tendency, owing to this bias, for people to see anyone with healthy, symmetrical, and proportionate features as being 'feminine', regardless of how much testosterone they have flowing through their bodies, and anyone with unhealthy, asymmetrical, and disproportionate features as being more 'masculine', regardless of how much estrogen they have flowing through their bodies. People who do this automatically assume that when a person is beautiful, it's because they look feminine -- but really, it's just because they have _healthy, symmetrical, and proportionate features_ which belong equally to men and women.

Testosterone affects the skeleton, musculature, external genitals, and body hair. For starters, it doesn't make sense to say an ideal female body is 'more beautiful' than an ideal male body in any objective way because it's like trying to argue that bowls are more objectively beautiful than glasses, or boats are more beautiful than airplanes. They're two very different, though related, objects. You can meaningfully compare two female bodies, or two male bodies, but not a male and a female body; all you can do is state your personal preference.

When it comes to faces, testosterone creates more pronounced eyebrows (which creates deeper set eyes), wider jaws, longer and flatter chins, and the subjective impression of smaller eyes (since, compared to the total surface area, they take up less space). Testosterone makes bones thicker and denser, and the musculature stronger, so the traits specifically associated with male beauty are impressions of strength and hardness -- because that's what testosterone does to a body. It also creates facial hair, which is not unattractive in itself, just as the hair on a person's head isn't unattractive in itself. Testosterone has no negative impact on health, symmetry, or proportion, which means it's just as possible for a man to be beautiful as a woman.

Here's an example of the male aesthetic:










It doesn't make sense to say that Donny Lewis is attractive because he 'looks feminine' because it's not true; he's attractive because his testosterone-enhance jaw, chin, eyebrows, eyes, and facial hair are healthy, symmetrical, and proportionate. If you made him more feminine by reducing and softening his bone structure and musculature and shaving his chin, you'd make him _less_ attractive, not more attractive. He's just 'beautiful' in the way that men are beautiful instead of being beautiful in the way that women are beautiful. That's why some transwomen are less attractive _as women_ than they were as men -- because their beauty was dependent on the hardness and angularity distinctive to men which they've subsequently femininized.

What you're saying is that you don't like the male aesthetic. You haven't proven female beauty is superior, nor do I believe it's even possible for you to prove it.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _₮here is̍ n̲o̲ beauty f̼ou͇̼̮nd within ma᷿sc͠ulinity̔. Ɲàtur᷅e ͖itself is evidence͓ o᷉f that. Ǥuys with f͐emin̞ine feature᷂s g᷾et called 'prettyͩ gu͈ys' b͇e͇c͇a͇u͇s͇e͇ they ̣᷄᷁have ͅfe̲mi̞nine features. Ωtherwise, tͅhey get called ̙'hͣandsome'.͘ Ðo ̆y̤ou kn᷃ow why ͙females ar̈́e of͚ten considered the m̹ore̻ ̢beautȉful sex? ℑt ̌is be͉c̃aus͞e the͔ mājͭorit͋y of the᷾m lack masculine̴ features, indi͂cating that ̃beaut̎y is an i̺nher̅͏ently femi͟nineͭ trait. ₸hi̷s is ̤simp͝ly ẗhe t̲r̲u̲t̲h̲.̲ Λnd̠ it isn'̌t s͔ur͘prising̊ at a̺ll,᷂ considering the fe͋male body doesn't su͓ffer n͓early as̛ͥ mucͭh fro͢m the po͔iso᷿nous,͑ b̻eͨauty des͆troying effects of̑ ͡the can̻cͦer ̅called '̶t̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶'̶.̶_


Again, as with the other poster I addressed, you are projecting your view of yourself onto the world.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Rickets said:


> I would think probably androgynous/feminine type features face wise.
> 
> High cheekbones, thicker upper lips, styled hair among others. I have those, and iirc you have some of those features too. Not a bad thing, I prefer it over a baby face.


Are high cheekbones feminine? I don't think so I thought they were a universally attractive trait.


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## Carolyne (Sep 20, 2016)

Afreen88 said:


> I wouldn't say I find these men 'creepy' but I do not find them attractive _at all_. They honestly look like women to me, posing like that. I have never been interested in conventionally attractive men. I think I actually prefer men to be a bit 'ugly', it just seems more masculine somehow. Men who take care of their appearence are just uke


They definitely don't look like women, or even particularly feminine in my opinion. The second guy's eyes freak me out by the way, they must have shined a very bright light at him, those pupils are so small.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

truant said:


> Calling bs on your bs-y bs.
> 
> Men and women have different _aesthetics_, because testosterone. But the effects of testosterone, _by themselves_, have zero impact on _human_ beauty, only on where on the spectrum between male and female beauty a person lies. (And it's a complete spectrum: there are beautiful men, beautiful androgynes, and beautiful women.) Human beauty is based on _health, symmetry, and proportion_ -- none of which testosterone interferes with. You can prefer feminine beauty over masculine beauty, but it doesn't make any sense to say that women are more beautiful than men. (Though trust me: I 100% understand preferring the female aesthetic for yourself as a person, since I hate being cursed by testosterone myself.)
> 
> ...


_ℑ'll agrḛ̜e with ̄somẽ ̼of thê things you've said, bu͈ͥt overall̴, ℐ d̤i̤s̤a̤g̤r̤e̤e̤.̤ ₮̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶ certainly i᷿nterf᷀eres with human beautỵͯ͜ because ͒as ℑ've s᷇aid earlier͖, beauty i͝s ͥa feminiͩn̻e trait. Ǥra͋ce, softṇͧes͗s, curv̢es, e͝tc are thing͋s associ᷊ated with femininity̍. ℝugge᷾dne̻ss and stren̰gth are no̓t̫ one of̵̳᷀ them. Ɉus̪t loo̕k at femal̥e̾᷅ body͉bu̧ilders, for exampl̡e. ₸h̯ey lo᷈se their femi̷nin͞i᷂ty beca̰u͛se mušcleś make them look ̧mascu̅line. ₮his shouldn't͟ be d͊if̳̃fic͒ult t᷅o grasp. ₸he͡re's a re̳ason why the̠̿᷅re is even a distinction ̲b̉etw̳̘̔een '̫̫beautif̫̫ul̫̫̫' ̫and 'handso̫m̫e' in the ̈first ̝̇pl᷇ace. ℑf ̧they ᷉̚both meant the exact ̸sa̓me thing,᷉ then it mak᷆es no sens᷄͐e͛ that men are usually ca͟lĺed 'handsome' while w̰omeṇ are usual̵ly cͨalled 'ḅeautiful͞'. ₮h̠e̠ a̠n̠s̠w̠e̠r̠:̠ ℬot̡h have ͕diͬfferent traits ̜ând c̲a̲n̲n̲o̲t̲ be the ŝame. §o i͈t makes perfe̘c͑t s̪en̬se to say͈ t̽ha᷁t women are more beaͪutiful than men.̓ ℋuman beͮauty is ba̡sed on͌̕ healt̑h, sy̢mmetry,̔ proporţio᷀n and f̖e̖m̖i̖n̖i̖n̖i̖t̖y̖.̖

₸he cultural ᷅biases ̮y̪ou see are a result of n̠̼a᷁tur̜e, it̊'s no sur͊p͏rise̝ w̔hy females are oͥve̚rsexu͘alise̻d̓. Ψou̖ sͮ̄a͝id it yo᷀urself: "Ɯomen are defined by their beauty and men aren't." Ƹ͟x͟a͟c͟t͟l͟y͟.͟ ℳen are defin̿e͡d ̧͕by tr͛aits that a̩ren't beauty͍, hence why th͑e m̲edi̐a ̏dͥoesn't focusͩ͢ on it. ℒet's s̴͆ay there are tͤẃŏ diͣamonds befor͂e ͋you. Θne is cl̗ean,̼ while the ot͂her is coͤv͎ere̹d in dust. ₩h̵ichͩ one of them wͣo̦uld your ̬attention imm͞ediately g̯o to? Ðụṣṭ ̢᷂i͊s the p͟e͟r͟f͟e͟c͟t͟ comparison ͇͈to fac̼ial and ᷊body hair. ₮hey bo͗th͙ c᷂o᷂r᷂r᷂u᷂p᷂t᷂ beauty and serve ̘no real ͭ̋p͊urpose͒. ℑ̥t̥'̥s̥ ḁ f̥l̥ḁw̥.̥

Ɯhat truly͡ ̧doesn't make seͬ᷄nse is trying t᷈o de͕ny a͈ll of this.̞ ₸he᷂ male̗ͧ body is s͍tronger, while th᷿e fe᷀male bo̤dy i᷿s ̷more ̷beautifuͬl. ℬo͐th̷᷃ have ͛obj̸ective a͉᷊dvantage̴s and disadvan͛tages. ℐ don't eve̷n need͚ to proveͦ͊ ̂anyth᷉ing.̝ Ɲatur᷊e itself häs̺ alre͒ady don͡e that._


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## Tabris (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't help it. It must be my heavily receding hairline.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

senkora said:


> I don't mind the redefinition of words here, but I have a hard time squinting or blurring my eyes just right when you step from making distinctions to making value judgments about those distinctions. The ambiguity of the former can't grant the conclusions of the latter. You can let your sense of repulsion or even social consensus make measuring sticks, but these don't translate to worthwhile values by themselves.


_Ɯell, ̀ℐ thinͩk it'ş̨͗ safe to say ̺that the vas͉t maj̟oritͥy of people wouḷd prefér s̤ome᷅᷄thi̎ng that's clean as ͌op͗posed to ̈́dusty. Ðust and͊ facial/bo̵dy hair ȃ̴r̗e vẻryͦ simil͐ar,̈́ that's w̢hỵ̾ ℐ made that ̄comparis̎on._


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

senkora said:


> You don't think we're pretty any more?


No I just don't need a literal answer to the question lol. I know why _I_ find guys pretty and/or attractive.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

senkora said:


> So,
> 1) You can totally laser that off if you think that poorly of it.
> 2) Long head hair doesn't really serve a purpose either but we can find it attractive.
> 3) Can you really appreciate how women perceive men physically if you are a man?
> ...


_ℳy taste̩ͤ͞ has nͥothing̃ ̬to ͧdo with it, ℑ'm no͊t looking̕ for ᷀a relaẗ́ionshi͂p anyway. ₮h̷e w̼᷂hole po͉int of mͬy disc͙ussi̿ơn ͇with truant was ͚based on objectivity. ∆nd while head ͛ha̴ir doesͨn't really serv̡e ḁ purpoͫse eithͣer, ̫at ᷈ͫlea̴st it̑ enhances t᷀he nat͗ural b͕eauty oͥf thȩ human ̉body. ℱacial/body͆ ̇hair̗͇ does th͂e o᷿p᷿p᷿o᷿s᷿i᷿t᷿e᷿.᷿ ₸his i᷄s̫ a d᷆iscussion forum th᷁͒ough, ̓s̴o ℐ don't s̻ee any is̳sues._


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## Carolyne (Sep 20, 2016)

I don't see any of senkora's posts that you're replying to, what's going on here?


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

_ℐ have ᷂no idea ̚w̓ha͟t h̀appened to̦ §enkora's posts, they̸ were there j̈́ust ̧a f͍ew minut᷇es̴ ̕ago. Σi̐ͦther a glitch ̳or he dȅleted them.

ℰdit: Θnly on͐᷾e of ͑the͘m is ͏visible n͆ow. ℑf̽ you̞ want mͣe to delete̗ m̚y repli̕es t͚o your comments, §enkora, let m̡̎e know._


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _ℳy taste̩ͤ͞ has nͥothing̃ ̬to ͧdo with it, ℑ'm no͊t looking̕ for ᷀a relaẗ́ionshi͂p anyway. ₮h̷e w̼᷂hole po͉int of mͬy disc͙ussi̿ơn ͇with truant was ͚based on objectivity. ∆nd while head ͛ha̴ir doesͨn't really serv̡e ḁ purpoͫse eithͣer, ̫at ᷈ͫlea̴st it̑ enhances t᷀he nat͗ural b͕eauty oͥf thȩ human ̉body. ℱacial/body͆ ̇hair̗͇ does th͂e o᷿p᷿p᷿o᷿s᷿i᷿t᷿e᷿.᷿ ₸his i᷄s̫ a d᷆iscussion forum th᷁͒ough, ̓s̴o ℐ don't s̻ee any is̳sues._


A lot of people who are attracted to men find beards attractive.


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _ℑ'll agrḛ̜e with ̄somẽ ̼of thê things you've said, bu͈ͥt overall̴, ℐ d̤i̤s̤a̤g̤r̤e̤e̤.̤ ₮̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶ certainly i᷿nterf᷀eres with human beautỵͯ͜ because ͒as ℑ've s᷇aid earlier͖, beauty i͝s ͥa feminiͩn̻e trait. Ǥra͋ce, softṇͧes͗s, curv̢es, e͝tc are thing͋s associ᷊ated with femininity̍. ℝugge᷾dne̻ss and stren̰gth are no̓t̫ one of̵̳᷀ them. Ɉus̪t loo̕k at femal̥e̾᷅ body͉bu̧ilders, for exampl̡e. ₸h̯ey lo᷈se their femi̷nin͞i᷂ty beca̰u͛se mušcleś make them look ̧mascu̅line. ₮his shouldn't͟ be d͊if̳̃fic͒ult t᷅o grasp. ₸he͡re's a re̳ason why the̠̿᷅re is even a distinction ̲b̉etw̳̘̔een '̫̫beautif̫̫ul̫̫̫' ̫and 'handso̫m̫e' in the ̈first ̝̇pl᷇ace. ℑf ̧they ᷉̚both meant the exact ̸sa̓me thing,᷉ then it mak᷆es no sens᷄͐e͛ that men are usually ca͟lĺed 'handsome' while w̰omeṇ are usual̵ly cͨalled 'ḅeautiful͞'. ₮h̠e̠ a̠n̠s̠w̠e̠r̠:̠ ℬot̡h have ͕diͬfferent traits ̜ând c̲a̲n̲n̲o̲t̲ be the ŝame. §o i͈t makes perfe̘c͑t s̪en̬se to say͈ t̽ha᷁t women are more beaͪutiful than men.̓ ℋuman beͮauty is ba̡sed on͌̕ healt̑h, sy̢mmetry,̔ proporţio᷀n and f̖e̖m̖i̖n̖i̖n̖i̖t̖y̖.̖
> 
> ₸he cultural ᷅biases ̮y̪ou see are a result of n̠̼a᷁tur̜e, it̊'s no sur͊p͏rise̝ w̔hy females are oͥve̚rsexu͘alise̻d̓. Ψou̖ sͮ̄a͝id it yo᷀urself: "Ɯomen are defined by their beauty and men aren't." Ƹ͟x͟a͟c͟t͟l͟y͟.͟ ℳen are defin̿e͡d ̧͕by tr͛aits that a̩ren't beauty͍, hence why th͑e m̲edi̐a ̏dͥoesn't focusͩ͢ on it. ℒet's s̴͆ay there are tͤẃŏ diͣamonds befor͂e ͋you. Θne is cl̗ean,̼ while the ot͂her is coͤv͎ere̹d in dust. ₩h̵ichͩ one of them wͣo̦uld your ̬attention imm͞ediately g̯o to? Ðụṣṭ ̢᷂i͊s the p͟e͟r͟f͟e͟c͟t͟ comparison ͇͈to fac̼ial and ᷊body hair. ₮hey bo͗th͙ c᷂o᷂r᷂r᷂u᷂p᷂t᷂ beauty and serve ̘no real ͭ̋p͊urpose͒. ℑ̥t̥'̥s̥ ḁ f̥l̥ḁw̥.̥
> 
> Ɯhat truly͡ ̧doesn't make seͬ᷄nse is trying t᷈o de͕ny a͈ll of this.̞ ₸he᷂ male̗ͧ body is s͍tronger, while th᷿e fe᷀male bo̤dy i᷿s ̷more ̷beautifuͬl. ℬo͐th̷᷃ have ͛obj̸ective a͉᷊dvantage̴s and disadvan͛tages. ℐ don't eve̷n need͚ to proveͦ͊ ̂anyth᷉ing.̝ Ɲatur᷊e itself häs̺ alre͒ady don͡e that._


... I like how you said you agreed with some of Truant's points, and then continued to say the exact opposite. lol

"Beauty" cannot be an _inherently_ feminine trait, because femininity itself isn't inherent to anything. Femininity is a construct--a measure against which cultures use to organize and make sense of their social realities. We parse perceived differences between men and women, label those which we've decided match conclusively with women "feminine" and those with men "masculine." It doesn't mean those qualities are immutable, or even inseparable from that which they modify. That is a ridiculously short-sighted argument. Many cultures hold very different standards regarding what "femininity" and "masculinity" even _mean_, respective "traits" assigned aside.

Your analogy is actually demonstrative of more than you think, but also not in the way you think. You didn't prove anything that you set out to prove, only that you would personally prefer something that isn't covered in dust. "Cleanness" isn't an inherently _better_ (or more beautiful) trait because, in objectivity, value judgments don't exist. Therefore a dusty jewel could just as easily be beautiful, if the person looking upon it valued dustiness as a beautiful trait.

Beauty and objectivity are two concepts at complete odds with one another. You are stating preference. And that is it.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

This thread gave me rabies.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> A lot of people who are attracted to men find beards attractive.


_I̥ndeed, t̅hey̖ͪ are. A̘nd sin̬c̊e facial/bōdy h̺͓air is sơ si᷄mila͞r͊ to d̩u̩s̩t̩, iẗ ͐b͟a͟f͟f͟l͟e͟s͟ me that they fͧ᷈ind thi͙s at̅tract̀ivͅe. N̩o̩̩ o̩̩̩n̩̩e̩̩ l̩i̩k̩e̩̩̩s̩ d̩u̩̩s̩̩̩t̩̩̩.̩ It just̴ shows ͅhow irratio̲nal hum͓᷂a̲ns are._


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

probably offline said:


> This thread gave me rabies.


I think that's beautiful.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _ℑ'll agrḛ̜e with ̄somẽ ̼of thê things you've said, bu͈ͥt overall̴, ℐ d̤i̤s̤a̤g̤r̤e̤e̤.̤ ₮̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶ certainly i᷿nterf᷀eres with human beautỵͯ͜ because ͒as ℑ've s᷇aid earlier͖, beauty i͝s ͥa feminiͩn̻e trait. Ǥra͋ce, softṇͧes͗s, curv̢es, e͝tc are thing͋s associ᷊ated with femininity̍. ℝugge᷾dne̻ss and stren̰gth are no̓t̫ one of̵̳᷀ them. Ɉus̪t loo̕k at femal̥e̾᷅ body͉bu̧ilders, for exampl̡e. ₸h̯ey lo᷈se their femi̷nin͞i᷂ty beca̰u͛se mušcleś make them look ̧mascu̅line. ₮his shouldn't͟ be d͊if̳̃fic͒ult t᷅o grasp. ₸he͡re's a re̳ason why the̠̿᷅re is even a distinction ̲b̉etw̳̘̔een '̫̫beautif̫̫ul̫̫̫' ̫and 'handso̫m̫e' in the ̈first ̝̇pl᷇ace. ℑf ̧they ᷉̚both meant the exact ̸sa̓me thing,᷉ then it mak᷆es no sens᷄͐e͛ that men are usually ca͟lĺed 'handsome' while w̰omeṇ are usual̵ly cͨalled 'ḅeautiful͞'. ₮h̠e̠ a̠n̠s̠w̠e̠r̠:̠ ℬot̡h have ͕diͬfferent traits ̜ând c̲a̲n̲n̲o̲t̲ be the ŝame. §o i͈t makes perfe̘c͑t s̪en̬se to say͈ t̽ha᷁t women are more beaͪutiful than men.̓ ℋuman beͮauty is ba̡sed on͌̕ healt̑h, sy̢mmetry,̔ proporţio᷀n and f̖e̖m̖i̖n̖i̖n̖i̖t̖y̖.̖
> 
> ₸he cultural ᷅biases ̮y̪ou see are a result of n̠̼a᷁tur̜e, it̊'s no sur͊p͏rise̝ w̔hy females are oͥve̚rsexu͘alise̻d̓. Ψou̖ sͮ̄a͝id it yo᷀urself: "Ɯomen are defined by their beauty and men aren't." Ƹ͟x͟a͟c͟t͟l͟y͟.͟ ℳen are defin̿e͡d ̧͕by tr͛aits that a̩ren't beauty͍, hence why th͑e m̲edi̐a ̏dͥoesn't focusͩ͢ on it. ℒet's s̴͆ay there are tͤẃŏ diͣamonds befor͂e ͋you. Θne is cl̗ean,̼ while the ot͂her is coͤv͎ere̹d in dust. ₩h̵ichͩ one of them wͣo̦uld your ̬attention imm͞ediately g̯o to? Ðụṣṭ ̢᷂i͊s the p͟e͟r͟f͟e͟c͟t͟ comparison ͇͈to fac̼ial and ᷊body hair. ₮hey bo͗th͙ c᷂o᷂r᷂r᷂u᷂p᷂t᷂ beauty and serve ̘no real ͭ̋p͊urpose͒. ℑ̥t̥'̥s̥ ḁ f̥l̥ḁw̥.̥
> 
> Ɯhat truly͡ ̧doesn't make seͬ᷄nse is trying t᷈o de͕ny a͈ll of this.̞ ₸he᷂ male̗ͧ body is s͍tronger, while th᷿e fe᷀male bo̤dy i᷿s ̷more ̷beautifuͬl. ℬo͐th̷᷃ have ͛obj̸ective a͉᷊dvantage̴s and disadvan͛tages. ℐ don't eve̷n need͚ to proveͦ͊ ̂anyth᷉ing.̝ Ɲatur᷊e itself häs̺ alre͒ady don͡e that._


Women are on average less visually driven than men. Most men are attracted to women so people talk about women's appearance far more often as a result. This does not mean men are objectively less physically attractive.

Handsome is basically the equivalent to the term beauty btw, if it produces a less extreme reaction this is only because that person is less fussed about looks and more fussed about other stuff in the first place. They experience less primary sexual attraction (hope that's the term I'm looking for..) And more secondary probably as well.



Apoc Revolution said:


> _I̥ndeed, t̅hey̖ͪ are. A̘nd sin̬c̊e facial/bōdy h̺͓air is sơ si᷄mila͞r͊ to d̩u̩s̩t̩, iẗ ͐b͟a͟f͟f͟l͟e͟s͟ me that they fͧ᷈ind thi͙s at̅tract̀ivͅe. N̩o̩̩ o̩̩̩n̩̩e̩̩ l̩i̩k̩e̩̩̩s̩ d̩u̩̩s̩̩̩t̩̩̩.̩ It just̴ shows ͅhow irratio̲nal hum͓᷂a̲ns are._


OK.

Do you have OCD btw? The dust connection seems to be a big thing for you.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Ai said:


> I think that's beautiful.


At least I don't suffer from dry mouth anymore.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

Ai said:


> ... I like how you said you agreed with some of Truant's points, and then continued to say the exact opposite. lol
> 
> "Beauty" cannot be an _inherently_ feminine trait, because femininity itself isn't inherent to anything. Femininity is a construct--a measure against which cultures use to organize and make sense of their social realities. We parse perceived differences between men and women, label those which we've decided match conclusively with women "feminine" and those with men "masculine." It doesn't mean those qualities are immutable, or even inseparable from that which they modify. That is a ridiculously short-sighted argument. Many cultures hold very different standards regarding what "femininity" and "masculinity" even _mean_, respective "traits" assigned aside.
> 
> ...


_ℐ o͞n͒ly included͏ whͥat ℐ di᷄sa̤g̅re̲ed͕ with in m᷊y response to trủan̤t. ℐ was͋ talki͂n͗g a̳bout b̖i̓ologyͥ whìch is ob͛jective, not culture. ϓou ͖ma͔y ḅe right in ̿saying ̒that value judg͜m̩ents don't ̯̮exist in objec̾tive judgͥm̅ent, but it ͅst͆ill doe̼sn't change ͔the fact t̨᷄hat the vast m̂ajo̊rity of pe͊ople prefer cleanlin̎ess, so ̾I'm n̂o̬t entirely ̲wron͗g._


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Ai said:


> I think that's beautiful.


One could say that's pretty....


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Afreen88 said:


> I wouldn't say I find these men 'creepy' but I do not find them attractive _at all_. They honestly look like women to me, posing like that. I have never been interested in conventionally attractive men. I think I actually prefer men to be a bit 'ugly', it just seems more masculine somehow. *Men who take care of their appearence are just uke*


Wait, so men who take care of their appearance in any form are pukeworthy? WTF? So, you prefer slobs? I don't see how taking care of one's appearance makes one less manly.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Women are on average less visually driven than men. Most men are attracted to women so people talk about women's appearance far more often as a result. This does not mean men are objectively less physically attractive.
> 
> Handsome is basically the equivalent to the term beauty btw, if it produces a less extreme reaction this is only because that person is less fussed about looks and more fussed about other stuff in the first place. They experience less primary sexual attraction (hope that's the term I'm looking for..) And more secondary probably as well.


_Ɲah, h̾ands᷁omeness ̺is not t̒hͯe̪ same as ̾beaͅuty. ₸h͍ey̬ hav̚e di͈ffer̰ent traits. ℐ explain̪ed ᷆th͎at in my reply to t̓ruant as͢ well._



Persephone The Dread said:


> OK.
> 
> Do you have OCD btw? The dust connection seems to be a big thing for you.


_ℙ̲e̲r̲f̲e̲c̲t̲i̲o̲n̲i̲s̲m̲.̲_


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Sorry, I got summoned in here because beards were mentioned. Beards are beautiful on men and don't look like dust. Though mine does a bit cos its slightly greying.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

gunner21 said:


> One could say that's pretty....


This thread has almost ruined the word pretty for me.



Apoc Revolution said:


> _Ɲah, h̾ands᷁omeness ̺is not t̒hͯe̪ same as ̾beaͅuty. ₸h͍ey̬ hav̚e di͈ffer̰ent traits. ℐ explain̪ed ᷆th͎at in my reply to t̓ruant as͢ well._


You seem to associate beauty with only feminine physical attractiveness which is subjective use of the word tbh but anyway handsome is (mostly,) used for physically attractive guys so it's fundamentally the same thing because you're still talking about physical attractiveness.

You're saying 'men are not physically attractive in the same way women are,' which is usually true. Obviously. But attractive femininity is not objectively superior, as I said, men are more visual as a whole and most men are heterosexual. If most men were not heterosexual, you'd start seeing the complete opposite in society generally.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> This thread has almost ruined the word pretty for me.
> 
> You seem to associate beauty with only feminine physical attractiveness which is subjective use of the word tbh but anyway handsome is (mostly,) used for physically attractive guys so it's fundamentally the same thing because you're still talking about physical attractiveness.
> 
> You're saying 'men are not physically attractive in the same way women are,' which is usually true. Obviously. But attractive femininity is not objectively superior, as I said, men are more visual as a whole and most men are heterosexual. If most men were not heterosexual, you'd start seeing the complete opposite in society generally.


_₸hat's ͖not the onḻy thing ℐ co͐nsͩider ᷅beaͥutif̪ul, but if we᷁'͛re stri̫c̷tly talkîng about th̵ͩe human͟ body, then y͏es. §ayinĝ 'you're beautifu̐l' to a man͜ iͣmplie͜s he ̼has feminine features ̳that make h̉im̹ at͉tra͈ctive. §imiḻ͜arly, saying 'y͏ou're᷀ hands᷊ome' to a woman̋ ͯimplies she h͛as masc̱ulin͜e features th᷊at mak͓̉e her attractive. §o while͡ they both̾ seem t̲he same,̶ the᷇͂y're n̲o̲t̲.̲ ℋencĕ why͡ some men would feel ͛e͏mascu͊l̖ated if you̐ say͚ t̍h̔at to them.͞ ₮he fa͊ct tha̺t men are so ͎vis͗ual compared to wo͝men just provͦes my po͙i̚nt that t᷇he fe̖male͒ body is̱ ob᷃jectively m᷿õre bęautiful. ϓou ̘and oth͛e͐rs wil̓l not agr᷆͐ee, but ᷂̝̇that's okay. ℐ al̲ready̌ expected that befo͗re ℐ ̦͈ev̇en star̃tedͬ posting in᷂᷈ this thread._


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _₸hat's ͖not the onḻy thing ℐ co͐nsͩider ᷅beaͥutif̪ul, but if we᷁'͛re stri̫c̷tly talkîng about th̵ͩe human͟ body, then y͏es. §ayinĝ 'you're beautifu̐l' to a man͜ iͣmplie͜s he ̼has feminine features ̳that make h̉im̹ at͉tra͈ctive. §imiḻ͜arly, saying 'y͏ou're᷀ hands᷊ome' to a woman̋ ͯimplies she h͛as masc̱ulin͜e features th᷊at mak͓̉e her attractive. §o while͡ they both̾ seem t̲he same,̶ the᷇͂y're n̲o̲t̲.̲ ℋencĕ why͡ some men would feel ͛e͏mascu͊l̖ated if you̐ say͚ t̍h̔at to them.͞* ₮he fa͊ct tha̺t men are so ͎vis͗ual compared to wo͝men just provͦes my po͙i̚nt that t᷇he fe̖male͒ body is̱ ob᷃jectively m᷿õre bęautiful.* ϓou ̘and oth͛e͐rs wil̓l not agr᷆͐ee, but ᷂̝̇that's okay. ℐ al̲ready̌ expected that befo͗re ℐ ̦͈ev̇en star̃tedͬ posting in᷂᷈ this thread._


No, it doesn't. Gay men are usually visually driven too.


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## Apoc Revolution (Dec 2, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> No, it doesn't. Gay men are usually visually driven too.


_ℱine, ℐ should've᷿ ᷂͕wrote ͒hͤeteros᷂exuăl men the̲n._


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

probably offline said:


> This thread gave me rabies.


Baby rabies?


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

Guys have a way of looking absolutely angelic ... like I bet their eyelashes would taste like sugar. 

They don't all the time, but when they do, they can be so gosh darn rosy-cheeked and pure. Big innocent eyes that I want to corrupt ... boys are really beautiful.

There's one.... I want to live in his lap.


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## pied vert (Jan 23, 2016)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _₸hat's ͖not the onḻy thing ℐ co͐nsͩider ᷅beaͥutif̪ul, but if we᷁'͛re stri̫c̷tly talkîng about th̵ͩe human͟ body, then y͏es. §ayinĝ 'you're beautifu̐l' to a man͜ iͣmplie͜s he ̼has feminine features ̳that make h̉im̹ at͉tra͈ctive. §imiḻ͜arly, saying 'y͏ou're᷀ hands᷊ome' to a woman̋ ͯimplies she h͛as masc̱ulin͜e features th᷊at mak͓̉e her attractive. §o while͡ they both̾ seem t̲he same,̶ the᷇͂y're n̲o̲t̲.̲ ℋencĕ why͡ some men would feel ͛e͏mascu͊l̖ated if you̐ say͚ t̍h̔at to them.͞ ₮he fa͊ct tha̺t men are so ͎vis͗ual compared to wo͝men just provͦes my po͙i̚nt that t᷇he fe̖male͒ body is̱ ob᷃jectively m᷿õre bęautiful. ϓou ̘and oth͛e͐rs wil̓l not agr᷆͐ee, but ᷂̝̇that's okay. ℐ al̲ready̌ expected that befo͗re ℐ ̦͈ev̇en star̃tedͬ posting in᷂᷈ this thread._


what is up with your abuse of accents?


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _ℱine, ℐ should've᷿ ᷂͕wrote ͒hͤeteros᷂exuăl men the̲n._


That would have been completely irrelevant to my point.

If what you were saying made sense, lesbians (as a whole,) would be equally as visually driven as straight men are, but they're not.


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

Apoc Revolution said:


> _₮he fa͊ct tha̺t men are so ͎vis͗ual compared to wo͝men just provͦes my po͙i̚nt that t᷇he fe̖male͒ body is̱ ob᷃jectively m᷿õre bęautiful._


No, it doesn't. Because, again, you're misusing the word objectively.


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

pied vert said:


> Guys have a way of looking absolutely angelic ... like I bet their eyelashes would taste like sugar.
> 
> They don't all the time, but when they do, they can be so gosh darn rosy-cheeked and pure. Big innocent eyes that I want to corrupt ... boys are really beautiful.
> 
> There's one.... I want to live in his lap.


Can confirm...my eyelashes taste like a sugarcane.


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## Explorer5 (May 25, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Also for the record you can look kinda feminine but not be feminine at all. E.g Andrew Eldritch circa 1980s:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, the guy eating the ice cream/popsicle IS cute. And I say that as a straight guy (who can nevertheless appreciate the beauty of certain males, in an aesthetic sense).

So is this guy:


Arbre said:


> :love2


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

Arbre said:


> :love2


This is completely off-topic, but I knew this guy seemed familiar when I scrolled past before. I only just now had the sense to do an image search. I :heart Chungking Express... And now California Dreamin' is immediately stuck in my head... forever.


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## LadyApathy (Dec 2, 2014)

Sam and Dean Winchester <3 hotties!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

^ I knew this thread wouldn't escape at least one Jensen Ackles photo.



Apoc Revolution said:


> _ℑ'll agrḛ̜e with ̄somẽ ̼of thê things you've said, bu͈ͥt overall̴, ℐ d̤i̤s̤a̤g̤r̤e̤e̤.̤ ₮̶e̶s̶t̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶n̶e̶ certainly i᷿nterf᷀eres with human beautỵͯ͜ because ͒as ℑ've s᷇aid earlier͖, beauty i͝s ͥa feminiͩn̻e trait. Ǥra͋ce, softṇͧes͗s, curv̢es, e͝tc are thing͋s associ᷊ated with femininity̍. ℝugge᷾dne̻ss and stren̰gth are no̓t̫ one of̵̳᷀ them. Ɉus̪t loo̕k at femal̥e̾᷅ body͉bu̧ilders, for exampl̡e. ₸h̯ey lo᷈se their femi̷nin͞i᷂ty beca̰u͛se mušcleś make them look ̧mascu̅line. ₮his shouldn't͟ be d͊if̳̃fic͒ult t᷅o grasp. ₸he͡re's a re̳ason why the̠̿᷅re is even a distinction ̲b̉etw̳̘̔een '̫̫beautif̫̫ul̫̫̫' ̫and 'handso̫m̫e' in the ̈first ̝̇pl᷇ace. ℑf ̧they ᷉̚both meant the exact ̸sa̓me thing,᷉ then it mak᷆es no sens᷄͐e͛ that men are usually ca͟lĺed 'handsome' while w̰omeṇ are usual̵ly cͨalled 'ḅeautiful͞'. ₮h̠e̠ a̠n̠s̠w̠e̠r̠:̠ ℬot̡h have ͕diͬfferent traits ̜ând c̲a̲n̲n̲o̲t̲ be the ŝame. §o i͈t makes perfe̘c͑t s̪en̬se to say͈ t̽ha᷁t women are more beaͪutiful than men.̓ ℋuman beͮauty is ba̡sed on͌̕ healt̑h, sy̢mmetry,̔ proporţio᷀n and f̖e̖m̖i̖n̖i̖n̖i̖t̖y̖.̖
> 
> ₸he cultural ᷅biases ̮y̪ou see are a result of n̠̼a᷁tur̜e, it̊'s no sur͊p͏rise̝ w̔hy females are oͥve̚rsexu͘alise̻d̓. Ψou̖ sͮ̄a͝id it yo᷀urself: "Ɯomen are defined by their beauty and men aren't." Ƹ͟x͟a͟c͟t͟l͟y͟.͟ ℳen are defin̿e͡d ̧͕by tr͛aits that a̩ren't beauty͍, hence why th͑e m̲edi̐a ̏dͥoesn't focusͩ͢ on it. ℒet's s̴͆ay there are tͤẃŏ diͣamonds befor͂e ͋you. Θne is cl̗ean,̼ while the ot͂her is coͤv͎ere̹d in dust. ₩h̵ichͩ one of them wͣo̦uld your ̬attention imm͞ediately g̯o to? Ðụṣṭ ̢᷂i͊s the p͟e͟r͟f͟e͟c͟t͟ comparison ͇͈to fac̼ial and ᷊body hair. ₮hey bo͗th͙ c᷂o᷂r᷂r᷂u᷂p᷂t᷂ beauty and serve ̘no real ͭ̋p͊urpose͒. ℑ̥t̥'̥s̥ ḁ f̥l̥ḁw̥.̥
> 
> Ɯhat truly͡ ̧doesn't make seͬ᷄nse is trying t᷈o de͕ny a͈ll of this.̞ ₸he᷂ male̗ͧ body is s͍tronger, while th᷿e fe᷀male bo̤dy i᷿s ̷more ̷beautifuͬl. ℬo͐th̷᷃ have ͛obj̸ective a͉᷊dvantage̴s and disadvan͛tages. ℐ don't eve̷n need͚ to proveͦ͊ ̂anyth᷉ing.̝ Ɲatur᷊e itself häs̺ alre͒ady don͡e that._


Beauty isn't a feminine trait, just like intelligence isn't a masculine trait. In our culture it's just customary to think of it as a feminine trait because, when you only have two socially sanctioned genders, and you have two extremes of one trait (beauty/ugliness), one of those extremes has to line up with one gender, and one of them has to line up with the other. That's how gender stereotypes work. (Men are strong, women are weak; men are rational, women are irrational; etc., etc.)

In our culture, we assign 'beauty' to the big box of traits called 'feminine' and 'ugly' to the big box of traits called 'masculine' and then filter all our perceptions through this dichotomy; ie. we expect to find ugliness in men and beauty in women, so that's what we're primed to see, even though _objectively_, women and men can be equally beautiful or ugly. (In ancient Greece, men were considered the beautiful gender.) This dichotomy causes us to _interpret_ signs of ugliness as signs of masculinity and signs of beauty as signs of femininity. Your understanding of beauty, imo, is being entirely determined by current gender stereotypes.

Even though men select for beauty in women, both boys and girls inherit those traits (health, symmetry, proportion) indiscriminately from their mothers, so selecting beautiful women will also produce beautiful sons as well as daughters. (And men select for beauty because their courtship role is to decide who to approach, and the most direct way to do that is via appearance; if women were the ones deciding who to approach, they'd be forced to rely largely on appearance as well. Which is why having both men and women approach at equal rates is likely only going to increase the tendency for our culture, on the whole, to value beauty over other traits.)

There are probably _numerical_ differences in the number of beautiful women we see vs beautiful men we see, but, as I said, that's produced by cultural factors: since women are heavily selected for based on beauty, they have much larger incentives to engage in behaviors that enhance their beauty than men; also, feminine beauty is exploited by the media, which pumps our culture full of countless images of beautiful women instead of beautiful men. If men are valued for many traits, you will see many types of men in the media; if women are valued only for beauty, you will only see one type of woman in the media. This endless panorama of beautiful women distorts our perception of the relative beauty of men by overwhelming them through sheer numbers. It's straight up selection bias. (This is also one of the main reasons why people consider white people more attractive than black people, especially in the West.)

The distinction between 'handsome' and 'beautiful' is somewhat arbitrary, as it always is with language. Handsome does reflect masculine beauty, just as prettiness reflects feminine beauty; the reason why we associate 'beauty', which is the neutral median, with women and not men, is because our culture as a whole has decided to assign that trait to women. I have no problem calling men beautiful, because they are beautiful to me. I'm not distorting the meaning of the word by doing so. It's merely customary not to call men beautiful (for rather sexist reasons, frankly, since, ascribing a culturally feminine trait, 'beauty', to a man is seen as emasculating).

Your comment about female body builders doesn't prove anything; they're considered unattractive by many because they're failing to live up to feminine ideals of beauty, not because masculine traits are ugly (though, personally, I like very fit women with good muscle definition); feminine men, who look soft and delicate like women, are --quite contrary to what you might believe -- not considered more attractive than masculine men by most straight women or gay men, who are the people selecting men based on their appearance. And I'm really not even sure why I should need to explain _that_. Your argument doesn't explain female sexual preferences at all; frankly, it butchers them. As a bisexual, I can tell you quite definitively that both men and women are beautiful, and that they're beautiful for different reasons. Much as I can tell you that both salty and sweet things are both delicious to eat, even though they have different flavors.

And I happen to like body hair on men, thank you very much, much as I despise it on myself.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

Only girls are pretty to me


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

truant said:


> Baby rabies?












No.


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## ShatteredGlass (Oct 12, 2012)

MobiusX said:


> Only girls are pretty to me


for some reason i can see you getting triggered af at this thread LMAO


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## Were (Oct 16, 2006)

Ai said:


> This is completely off-topic, but I knew this guy seemed familiar when I scrolled past before. I only just now had the sense to do an image search. I :heart Chungking Express... And now California Dreamin' is immediately stuck in my head... forever.


Same.


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

Afreen88 said:


> I said they 'look like women to me, _posing like that_'. The piercings, the styled hair(!), the look into the camera. I don't consider it very masculine; preening is something that women do. When men go the great lengths to make themselves look physically attractive, as these 'men' have in the photographs, it gives off a very effeminate/gay vibe which automatically puts them in the 'woman' category for me.





Afreen88 said:


> There is a middle ground between a man who is a slob and a man who takes longer than you styling his hair, you know. I'm really talking about 'metrosexuals' - these men are 'pukeworthy' to me. Men who watch what they eat (when they don't need to) and talk about the gym all the time etc.
> 
> There was a gym buff I used to live with and he would go on and ON about his diet ('I am a sugar fiend'), took ages getting ready etc. In made me seriously nauseous.


... So men whose habits you perceive to be too "gay" make you "nauseous"? :| Endearing.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

metrosexuality:


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

Afreen88 said:


> Men who take care of their appearence are just uke


so you would prefer a dirty tramp off of the street living in a cardboard box who hasnt washed fro 5 months, and a beard as long as Gandalf's but full of whatever a tramps beard is full of? lol


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

Afreen88 said:


> Read post #160, my reply to gunner21. A choice between your example and a 'meterosexual', I'd rather be single (which is always a choice).


 read it. bit I still don't understand WHY you hate the grooming they do. you've just merely stated you hate it.

what do you think about women who dont shave legs then or very hairy forearms? what do you think about femininity in general and femininity in females?

I'm.just interested


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## Ai (Oct 13, 2012)

Afreen88 said:


> My feelings are not here to be endearing to you. They're here to navigate _my_ existence. Hopefully, to a masculine man - the definition of which I decide, because it's my life, not yours or any other offended person.


I like how any time anyone questions literally anything on the internet, they're "offended." :lol You're being awfully defensive for someone so aggressively opposed to endearment. Just as well, though, suppose... I'm much too hairy. We were never meant to be. 



Persephone The Dread said:


> metrosexuality:


That was actually more or less my first thought, many moons ago, when I first heard that phrase. :lol

Slippery slopes, indeed.


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

nubly said:


> Pretty is for girly men. Ruggedly handsome is were it's at.


girly men>handsome brutes.


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## Arbre (Mar 9, 2014)

Ai said:


> This is completely off-topic, but I knew this guy seemed familiar when I scrolled past before. I only just now had the sense to do an image search. I :heart Chungking Express... And now California Dreamin' is immediately stuck in my head... forever.





Were said:


> Same.


Best movie I've ever seen.


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## SwtSurrender (Nov 24, 2014)

Yes :sigh they attract me like the male peacocks.


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## clarkekent (Dec 2, 2015)

Were said:


> Same.


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## 2Milk (Oct 29, 2014)

From a pure aesthetic (not involving sexual attraction or non-physical traits) point of view, I think that gorgeous men are better looking than gorgeous women. I'm a heterosexual male by the way. 
The female body just can't compete with the male body (IMO).


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## Twilightforce (Aug 7, 2016)

That's dumb.


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## SparklingWater (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't know why, but i sure do appreciate it. David Gandy? Yes please. So many pretty guys in so many different ways.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

My secret is mud mask once a week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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