# Do you think computing has become too easy?



## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

I've been having a lot of fun for the past couple of days, playing around with an older operating system. Doing things as simple as trying to set it up to play mp3, stream audio, installing various libraries so it will display jpg files, configuring the browser, etc. 



It is just simple things, that probably annoy most people, but I get a kick out of troubleshooting computers and trying to fix them. It is a rush, after spending hours working on a computer, and surfing the web for obscure information when I get it to work.


That seems to be gone from modern computing, now almost everything works out of the box, there is little that needs to be configured, most troubleshooting is incredibly easy. Even when I do have a problem, it is just a quick and easy search on the web, that usually takes no more than a few minutes. 



It feels like everything has been streamlined so much, that there is little to nothing left to do.


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## firelight (Jan 31, 2019)

Yeah not to mention that giant corporations have their tentacles and ads everywhere. Internet was more fun when it had higher barrier to entry.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

firelight said:


> Yeah not to mention that giant corporations have their tentacles and ads everywhere. Internet was more fun when it had higher barrier to entry.


I enjoyed the Internet a lot more back then, I think it was the act of searching for sites which was more fun. Also, it was less social than it is now, the social aspect I think draws in more revenue as it keeps most people engaged and coming back to various sites - but it has completely restructured the web. What is worst, is that the web seems to be designed in such a way to create as much conflict as possible between people, at least that is the impression I get from most social media. What was once millions upon millions of personal webpages has become a few hundred incredibly popular sites that most people go to socialize with one another, often just arguing with one another.

I remember a year or two ago, going through my browser history to see how many sites I had visited that month, it came down to only about thirty or so.. that is absolutely horrible, in the earlier 2000s I imagine it would have numbered in a few hundred. Search engines in general do not help very much either, they typically lead to the same sites over and over again.

One search engine I have enjoyed a lot, is http://wiby.me which provides a far more entertaining means of browsing the web for me, when I want to do so out of leisure.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I've been having to help my mum a bunch recently since she's been working from home a bit more and having all kinds of problems with her laptop. She emailed tech support at work and I had to follow their instructions so they could get remote access to her laptop, because she couldn't. Then at one point she dropped it so the screen broke, and then she did something to the second monitor she set up so it turned off and needed me to fix that, and then later the school she worked for gave her an ipad and she couldn't figure out how to connect to the internet on that (I did despite having never used one in seconds.) She's pretty technophobic so will just panic, get really frustrated, and immediately ask me.

To me I've been using various technology from a young age, I have some vague memory of setting up some computer for my grandma I think when I was a kid. So I guess it's like that generational term 'digital native' but my mum can't do that (she's 60, though it's not just an age thing she really does seem to have some mild phobic reaction sometimes.)


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

zonebox said:


> I enjoyed the Internet a lot more back then, I think it was the act of searching for sites which was more fun. Also, it was less social than it is now, the social aspect I think draws in more revenue as it keeps most people engaged and coming back to various sites - but it has completely restructured the web. What is worst, is that the web seems to be designed in such a way to create as much conflict as possible between people, at least that is the impression I get from most social media. What was once millions upon millions of personal webpages has become a few hundred incredibly popular sites that most people go to socialize with one another, often just arguing with one another.
> 
> I remember a year or two ago, going through my browser history to see how many sites I had visited that month, it came down to only about thirty or so.. that is absolutely horrible, in the earlier 2000s I imagine it would have numbered in a few hundred. Search engines in general do not help very much either, they typically lead to the same sites over and over again.
> 
> One search engine I have enjoyed a lot, is http://wiby.me which provides a far more entertaining means of browsing the web for me, when I want to do so out of leisure.


It's designed to exploit people's emotions and be addictive like gambling, but because some emotions are more effective than others it defaults to anger a lot of the time. Also at a certain point more conservatives got online which meant the political landscape changed to be more heterogenous.

I think this is what capitalism does though it eventually results in monopolies it happens in every industry. It also happened with irl shops. A smaller and smaller group of people eventually own everything and then it becomes spiritually bankrupt, ****, and a cash grab. This is my primary problem with the economic model. It eventually produces crap. Just look at what happened to the video game industry with the larger companies and their micro transactions and loot boxes etc and every game in a series getting dumbed down and less content (and EA.)

EA (this is just my favourite rant about EA masquerading as a game review):






The amount of data companies started collecting and selling or giving away free to others including various governments was also a **** development.

Oh and then sometimes useful features are removed in updates to things. Like the YouTube update where the option to search playlists were removed. I ended up installing a script to keep the old YouTube although recently it's started failing more for some reason so sometimes when I load pages it still ends up on the newer YouTube layout. One advantage to the new layout is you can search your history though. But to search your playlist while adding to it you have to use browser search and then scroll down to find what has been highlighted this is a pretty small thing but requires more clicks and I didn't understand the point of removing that.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> It's designed to exploit people's emotions and be addictive like gambling, but because some emotions are more effective than others it defaults to anger a lot of the time. Also at a certain point more conservatives got online which meant the political landscape changed to be more heterogenous.
> 
> I think this is what capitalism does though it eventually results in monopolies it happens in every industry. It also happened with irl shops. A smaller and smaller group of people eventually own everything and then it becomes spiritually bankrupt, ****, and a cash grab. This is my primary problem with the economic model. It eventually produces crap. Just look at what happened to the video game industry with the larger companies and their micro transactions and loot boxes etc and every game in a series getting dumbed down and less content (and EA.)


It's a shame, if only there were a way to prevent corporations from growing so large that they swallow up all of the competition. I'm not an economist, and haven't a clue what is best for society so I can't speak with any authority on the topic - but I did very much enjoy when there were a bunch of different companies providing a variety of computers, that as well as when the Internet was in it's infancy and a variety of ISPs existed, as well as several different search engines. I can't really even blame the corporations though, because it is the people that continue to use them. It is so bad now, that when someone gets banned from a social media site, they complain they have lost their freedom of speech, it doesn't even occur to them that they can move to another social media site, they could push for others to as well. GAB, MeWe, Bit Chute, the list goes on and on - they could even create their own websites.

We are ultimately responsible for it I think. I'm just rambling now, it is just so strange to see how these larger corporations are held on to so strongly by people, who really don't like them to begin with. Whenever I go on to youtube, and view political related material it seems so crazy to me to see people complaining, and no leaving. It is the same with the Yahoo news comment section, which is a pretty wild ride. I think the only reason Yahoo is as big as it is, is because the people who absolutely hate that site keep going back to it to leave comments on their news articles :lol


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

No.......I spent enough time being frustrated. I enjoy tinkering with things at times (If I don't have to rely on them when it counts) but to me, computers are tools. I don't enjoy trying to use inferior tools for every job. I might use an obsolete tool just for the neato nostalgia of it but I wouldn't want to use it every day just to accomplish things that need to be done. Example -I'd rather use a cordless drill than a hand drill if I was always drilling things. Just for reasons of practicality. I'd only use an ancient hand drill all the time if I had to.

I remember when I got my first internet capable PC. I had no idea what I was doing and it had some glitches that I couldn't figure out (at the time) so I just put up with constant crashes and bluescreens and searching for answers to problems I didn't even know the names of. 20 years later, I'm glad that's behind me. And it can stay there. I did learn a lot (eventually) but it wasn't by choice and it wasn't fun pulling my hair out.

Back in the day, I had a TV, cable, a DVD collection, a CD collection, a complicated home theater system. My computer has replaced all of that and I'm fine with it. But in order for it to be a real replacement for all of that, it has to work right all the time and not be constantly glitching and not doing what I want it to. 

I guess maybe hardship is more appealing when you can turn it on and off.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

zonebox said:


> It's a shame, if only there were a way to prevent corporations from growing so large that they swallow up all of the competition. I'm not an economist, and haven't a clue what is best for society so I can't speak with any authority on the topic - but I did very much enjoy when there were a bunch of different companies providing a variety of computers, that as well as when the Internet was in it's infancy and a variety of ISPs existed, as well as several different search engines. I can't really even blame the corporations though, because it is the people that continue to use them. It is so bad now, that when someone gets banned from a social media site, they complain they have lost their freedom of speech, it doesn't even occur to them that they can move to another social media site, they could push for others to as well. GAB, MeWe, Bit Chute, the list goes on and on - they could even create their own websites.
> 
> We are ultimately responsible for it I think. I'm just rambling now, it is just so strange to see how these larger corporations are held on to so strongly by people, who really don't like them to begin with. Whenever I go on to youtube, and view political related material it seems so crazy to me to see people complaining, and no leaving. It is the same with the Yahoo news comment section, which is a pretty wild ride. I think the only reason Yahoo is as big as it is, is because the people who absolutely hate that site keep going back to it to leave comments on their news articles :lol


People are moving and use others like there's Bit Chute competing with YouTube and Parler with twitter, but I understand the complaining too over leaving silently as long as you do both it alerts others to how restrictive the websites are so they can also choose to leave. The thing is, these other sites then become 'conservative sites' sometimes so what's actually happening is that the divide that already exists is just being emphasised even more as people just go to their own space. I was watching a video recently that ended up age restricted and I think initially it was blocked but they reviewed that and made it age restricted instead, this was on YT so she uploaded it to *****ute but got tons of negative comments because she's left wing politically lol and so was her video addressing current events. Not sure that's an improvement if you're not consuming a variety of content but I guess it's the same problem as with TV networks.

Sometimes there isn't a decent alternative though, and it's very difficult for new businesses to compete with these large ones I think. I think it's easier to manage small businesses most of the decisions on YT are being made by underpaid workers in developing companies and AI.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280260696874287110


> deadass 70% of the website is unironic nazis. not *****utes fault thats just the nature of being a free speech platform. it's just hilarious.


When YouTube's biggest alternatives are a site that's also owned by a corporation (Twitch - Amazon,) has a bunch of strict rules and is gaming/creative focused or 'the Nazi site' it's not a lot of options lol.

Going a bit off topic now but LOL I forgot everyone (the conspiracy theorists,) thinks Shoe is secretly trans (she's not.)










Not that it matters but it's just hilarious that they're so OCD:






edit: I hadn't heard of GAB or MeWe (which is a point about how hard it is for these sites to gain attention,) but GAB is also mentioned as being a far-right site. So this is fairly depressing since many social media sites have a number of issues besides censoring far-right views but the sites that pop up in contrast all end up dominated by the far right. This is why forums and chat servers, are probably better. Although it's really only after 2014 that you find these guys everywhere because of that shift I mentioned.

I was thinking homonationalism seems insane but it's starting to make sense in how it develops. YouTube censors LGBT+ creators (but mostly gay ones,) and the far right, they move/commiserate, put them together homonationalism lol. (And it's not like most people aren't larping because they have no sense of community.)


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

No.

Computing hasn't become too easy. All the complexity is there for anyone who wants to crack open the hood and tinker around. I daresay computing is much more complicated now than it was 20 years ago, when you could still learn how to do just about everything yourself.

The user friendly interface is there to spare people who don't have decades to learn the ins and outs of computing. And I believe that's an incredibly good thing. I don't want to have to learn how to farm before I can eat, or learn medicine before I can have an operation, either.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

@Persephone The Dread

Imagine if social media were to vanish overnight, no more youtube, facebook, twitter, and all the others. I wonder what the world would look like, it is actually pretty fun to think about. I think for a lot of people, it drives them off the edge and into lala land. It is like a constant stream of programming, that eventually leads some to believe in a trans conspiracy that Shoe0nHead is part of. The flat Earth society would certainly lose some revenue in the process, and anti-vaxxers would not have so many supporters.

I bet more people wouldn't be freaking out over wearing masks too :lol Sometimes I think, a lot of people in general just can't handle the web. They get sucked into the virtual world, and begin to believe the strangest of things.


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)

I never really learned how to use MS-DOS.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

WillYouStopDave said:


> No.......I spent enough time being frustrated. I enjoy tinkering with things at times (If I don't have to rely on them when it counts) but to me, computers are tools. I don't enjoy trying to use inferior tools for every job. I might use an obsolete tool just for the neato nostalgia of it but I wouldn't want to use it every day just to accomplish things that need to be done. Example -I'd rather use a cordless drill than a hand drill if I was always drilling things. Just for reasons of practicality. I'd only use an ancient hand drill all the time if I had to.
> 
> I remember when I got my first internet capable PC. I had no idea what I was doing and it had some glitches that I couldn't figure out (at the time) so I just put up with constant crashes and bluescreens and searching for answers to problems I didn't even know the names of. 20 years later, I'm glad that's behind me. And it can stay there. I did learn a lot (eventually) but it wasn't by choice and it wasn't fun pulling my hair out.
> 
> ...


I can see your point, it is nice to have everything work. But I often find myself at the computer bored now, I liked running into problems and solving them. Plus, it is fun to overcome limitations and get my computer to do things it was not designed for. My computer is more than a tool to me, it is like an extension of myself, it is where I spend most of my time and I like to put a bit of myself into it - if that makes any sense. I mean.. don't have dirty thoughts ;p

With Windows 10, everything just works. If I need something, I just download it, run the installation, and it is done, there is nothing there for me to do but click a few buttons. With my Amiga, it is so much more involved and I feel a weird connection to it, as though I poured a bit of myself into it.

Yeah, I'm weird like that


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

truant said:


> No.
> 
> Computing hasn't become too easy. All the complexity is there for anyone who wants to crack open the hood and tinker around. I daresay computing is much more complicated now than it was 20 years ago, when you could still learn how to do just about everything yourself.
> 
> The user friendly interface is there to spare people who don't have decades to learn the ins and outs of computing. And I believe that's an incredibly good thing. I don't want to have to learn how to farm before I can eat, or learn medicine before I can have an operation, either.


I'm speaking in terms of a personal computer, for the most part it has become so incredibly easy that there is no challenge left. It is a good thing for most people, but I miss tinkering around with my computer to get everything to work correctly.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

Blue Dino said:


> I never really learned how to use MS-DOS.


I mostly used DOS to play games in, I did run a BBS through dos for a short period of time, I think even then though I was running it through a command prompt in windows. It has been so long I forget now, but back in the earlier 90s ms-dos ran games better than windows 

You can actually play a lot of older MS-DOS games through Internet Archive now, which is pretty cool:

https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games

I've installed a pretty cool program called DosBox, that allows me to run a bunch of those games as well, I actually have windows 3.11 setup in it that I like to play around with every now and then. I have a pretty cool program on there with virtual pets, which is fun, it is called Catz.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

@zonebox

I think if social media disappeared it might reduce some of the more out there conspiracies but I think similar numbers of people wouldn't be taking the virus seriously out of a need to seem tough and you still have 'leaders' like Trump and Bolsonaro saying random **** like the virus is a hoax or not wearing masks for political reasons. If you tell someone to do something, as a general rule in Western countries (especially America though,) they won't do it.

Also just thinking about new stuff I think there are a lot more errors/glitches problems these days though. Just the other day I was reading about some issue with a Windows 10 update that is causing emails to be deleted from the gmail app without permission, and lots of other problems with previous updates people talk about.

I guess if you're bored you could try modding furbies or something:


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

@*Persephone The Dread*

I wonder if Trump would have even been elected if it were not for social media though, he garnered quite a lot of support through it. I don't know if Clinton would have won, but I think it would have been pretty hard for Trump to get as far as he did.

I might have to repair one of the furbies I own, the poor thing fell off my bookshelf and into a bucket of mop water :lol I had it drying out in the garage for a few days, and was going to fix it before my appendix decided to blow up on me :lol I'll have to get out some batteries and see if there was any damage to the electronics.

Computers though, that is where my heart is - I still have my Amiga to goof around with. I was just bored and was curious if anyone else felt the same way I do when it comes to computers of today.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

@zonebox

yeah he probably wouldn't have been elected if not for social media. I also remember hearing he ran for president before as a third party candidate and didn't get elected (but no one can get elected as a third party candidate :/) I was more thinking if it just disappeared now.

Oh no hopefully the furby will be OK.

I haven't really used any older non-Windows computers. I used some Acorn computers (British company,) that were at my school when I was young but don't remember that much, and maybe the school my mum worked at as a young child when there was still more competition besides PC and Mac. Then the first computer we had at home in about 1998 was a IBM ps/2 which was from the 80s but I didn't really do much with that except play this one game that was installed (Blockout I think,) a lot.


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

sorry it ain't a verb

neither is shopping. buying. purchasing

or booking


no reason involve a paperbound object in arranging something.. event

as car'ing = driving (not cattle)

doing as no purpose til defined

babying? flatting? living? ßling?

Latin base. compounded words with common ending!! orr.. ..ed!!!


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Easier than ever with so many websites, forum and videos on youtube showing you how to do everything or to solve problems you might have. You plug most components now and it's plug and play, drivers basically install themselves.

10 or 20 years ago it wasn't always easy and components were a pain to install and didnt always work at all and setting up gamepads or racing wheels could drive you nuts. Now you plug it and it works right away for the most part with little to no setup.

You can order everything online and it comes to your house, don't even have to ever set foot in a store. If that's not easy, i dont know what is.

Building a computer from scratch is not even a feat reserved for nerds anymore. Anyone and their mother with some patience can do it with the help of youtube or some guide online. The internet made a whole lot of things easier to understand.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

@*Persephone The Dread*

I just put in some new batteries, and the furby is happily chatting away. It is a first generation one, so it did not have as many electronics to worry about. It is in desperate need of a cleaning though, the mop water did not seem to help out very much.

@*Scrub-Zero* 
That is something else I kind of miss, walking around in computer stores and finding upgrades for my computer. That, and a ton of games to sort through, and while doing so occasionally running into other gamers that would remark on whatever game I was looking at. I remember one time a guy all hyped up about EverQuest highly suggested it, and his girlfriend implored my girlfriend not to let me buy it :lol I think those were one of the very few stores I would like to browse around in.


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## Blue Dino (Aug 17, 2013)

zonebox said:


> You can actually play a lot of older MS-DOS games through Internet Archive now, which is pretty cool:
> 
> https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games


Thanks for this. This is pretty cool nostalgia. Always been wondering if there was something like this for as long as I remember.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

zonebox said:


> @*Persephone The Dread*
> 
> I just put in some new batteries, and the furby is happily chatting away. It is a first generation one, so it did not have as many electronics to worry about. It is in desperate need of a cleaning though, the mop water did not seem to help out very much.


Oh yeah I can imagine the fur got messed up. When I was younger on holiday on a camp site I got this little stuffed duck out of a claw machine (it was one of the rare ones where you were guaranteed a prize,) and I took it and a bunch of stuffed toys into the swimming pool and down the water slide (no you weren't supposed to do that I'd guess but yeah,) and after it got wet it ended up with a permanent kind of grumpy look. My brother had the same duck from the machine and his one was happier and less edgy looking lol. Although it might have just come out like that and I forgot but yeah it's fur was more messy and it was always kind of punk rock after that.



Scrub-Zero said:


> Easier than ever with so many websites, forum and videos on youtube showing you how to do everything or to solve problems you might have. You plug most components now and it's plug and play, drivers basically install themselves.
> 
> 10 or 20 years ago it wasn't always easy and components were a pain to install and didnt always work at all and setting up gamepads or racing wheels could drive you nuts. Now you plug it and it works right away for the most part with little to no setup.
> 
> ...


I think it's a good thing that stuff is more accessible to more people though (to some degree, obviously it's had a terrible effect on internet culture...) But hardware wise it's a good thing. Saying that most people still don't build their own computers and my mum definitely wouldn't lol.


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## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Not really - I'm actually glad things just keep getting easier. I was never really interested in computing as such - just what they can do for me. My son's always been into them though and is a software engineer.

I'm glad we have smart=phones now too - they've made things like listing on ebay a lot easier too. I can put an ad on in a minute or two and then just tidy it up on my laptop. It used to take ages loading the images on.

The easier the better as far as I'm concerned mate.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

zonebox said:


> @*Scrub-Zero*
> That is something else I kind of miss, walking around in computer stores and finding upgrades for my computer. That, and a ton of games to sort through, and while doing so occasionally running into other gamers that would remark on whatever game I was looking at. I remember one time a guy all hyped up about EverQuest highly suggested it, and his girlfriend implored my girlfriend not to let me buy it :lol I think those were one of the very few stores I would like to browse around in.


haha yes that's something i miss too. And also when you could go rent games(even PC games) in videoclubs and you had the occasional chit chat with other games about the game you wanted to rent.

I miss videoclubs honestly, it was nice to take a chance on a movie or game without watching 50 reviews online before watching it.



Persephone The Dread said:


> I think it's a good thing that stuff is more accessible to more people though (to some degree, obviously it's had a terrible effect on internet culture...) But hardware wise it's a good thing. Saying that most people still don't build their own computers and my mum definitely wouldn't lol.


my mom wouldn't be able to either haha. She often calls me when something new comes up on her tablet like an update and such and i have to explain to her what it is.

But in general computers are much easier to build than they used to be. Drivers and all online and there are so many guides. Most people don't build their own probably because it's easier to go to bestbuy and get one there without worries. Sad thing is those computer they sell are way overpriced and build on cheap components to save cost. They're basically legal scammer thieves.

And dear lord, the internet culture...some of it is great, a lot of it, not so much lmao.


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## Micronian (Nov 11, 2004)

Yeah, computing has become very easy. It has its good points and bad points. The good point is that by making computing so easy it brings in more people to use computers--and that was the point all along. All people needed to embrace the new technology, and this is accomplished by having everything work and have the computer environment as streamlined as possible. This is what APPLE was all about. I think both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates wanted that to happen.

Unfortunately, this trend has diminished the do-it-yourself attitude of the initial computer hobbyist. When the PC started, it was the hobbyist's domain and it spurned all sorts of creativity and variety and know-how. It created all sorts of hardware and software and so many ways to configure your own computer. I remember in the late 90s there were pages upon pages in the newspaper selling and promoting computer parts. Now, that just isn't necessary because all parts are integrated into one whole machine which people can't open, can't fix, enhance, or extend its longevity.

To me, that's the only real bad thing about today's computing; the entire software/hardware environment is enclosed. if something breaks down, you can't just tweak one component; you have to get the whole thing replaced. It makes the public far more dependent on the manufacturer of the computer.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

@Micronian

You can replace parts easily if you have a PC but after a certain amount of time you'll probably have to replace the motherboard and multiple parts.

I doubt it's easy/possible with tablets and smartphones though and afaik Apple have never really encouraged replacing parts (I've never owned any Apple products so I don't know if it's even possible.)

edit: on another weird note on TV almost all fictional characters use apple products usually a macbook. I was recently watching Silicon Valley and they all have macbooks kind of hard to believe. Especially Gilfoyle. I don't buy it lol.. (Though I guess he also used Linux at different points which fits better.)


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

@Wunderblitz Linux is fun, I play around with it every now and then but haven't had it on my main computer for years now. I do have raspian which I like to goof around with, but even that was incredibly easy to setup up and required no real effort on my part. Even overclocking it was pretty straight forward. There is a project out there for the PI, based off linux from scratch that I might try here shortly, it looks like it could be fun and challenging.

I think ReactOS looks like a really neat project, I had it running on virtualbox for a short time and had fun. What I would really love to do, is to get AROS running on my PC, but haven't had much luck getting it to run on my hardware. A newer Amiga is coming out that is using it as the main OS, which looks like so much fun to play around and I'd love to get but that new Amiga is retailing for around $600 USD.

Right now, I have been goofing with an older OS to get it to work the way I like and having a lot of fun.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

harrison said:


> I'm glad we have smart=phones now too - they've made things like listing on ebay a lot easier too. I can put an ad on in a minute or two and then just tidy it up on my laptop. It used to take ages loading the images on.


I also love my smartphone, the thing is like a Swiss army knife - camera, camcorder, notepad, gps, calculator, web browser, TV, that list just goes on and on, not to mention phone. It also is essential for my current job, delivering food. I really can't say enough about it, my phone has come in really handy for all sorts of things. I routinely use it when making repairs, the flashlight helps a lot and taking pictures from the camera makes everything so much easier for when I want to put everything back together.

One thing I rarely use my phone for though, is socializing :lol I think of it more so as a mini computer than a phone.



Micronian said:


> To me, that's the only real bad thing about today's computing; the entire software/hardware environment is enclosed. if something breaks down, you can't just tweak one component; you have to get the whole thing replaced. It makes the public far more dependent on the manufacturer of the computer.


Definitely, especially for tablets and phones. I've been able to repair small things, like replacing a headphone or power jack, and a cracked screen but anything more significant than that would be beyond my ability.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

@Wunderblitz

I think it really comes down to things that I find interesting, not to functionality or any particular purpose outside of entertainment. There really is no use for ReactOS or an Amiga that I can think of which Windows, Linux, or other modern operating systems already serve. Wine does a fine job of running windows programs and games, and UAE does an excellent job of emulating WorkBench, AROS 68k, and various amiga games.

The fun for me, is getting these operating systems operational, which involves a lot of troubleshooting, and searching for answers, which are difficult to find due to the lack of general interest. It is a hobby of mine. With a newer Amiga, the hardware itself, it is entirely based upon interest, at least for me, emulation works amazingly, in fact that is what I am using on my raspberry PI to emulate an incredibly fast Amiga.

That was the intent of the original post, I was curious how many people felt the same way as I do and miss when computing was a little more difficult, because they enjoy the process of getting their computers to work correctly.

Mention works by just putting the "@" in front of the name of the person you want to mention. I usually just quote the message, delete the post I'm responding to with the exception of the user's name and put the @ symbol in front of it.


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

I don't remember ever having trouble displaying a JPG file, streaming audio or using a web browser. Although I never even attempted to get internet running on Red Hat 6 because I had a winmodem at the time ('99). I do remember years of periodically losing 3D acceleration on new kernels due to proprietary drivers, but I certainly don't remember that fondly. There's nothing positive about bad driver support. And I certainly don't miss having to reinstall my OS every or two year either, yay for upgrades.

And I'd certainly like a lot of computing to be easier than it is now -- especially audio and video and image editors, which get quite tedious.

What I do remember a bit more fondly is buying books of BASIC programs to type in, and shareware stores.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

zonebox said:


> Definitely, especially for tablets and phones. I've been able to repair small things, like replacing a headphone or power jack, and a cracked screen but anything more significant than that would be beyond my ability.


Yeah phones and tablets are more precise work than a PC or laptop. You need the right tools to open them and inside is so small and tight. They sell good repair kits online though with everything you need pretty much to repair. And the repairing often require soldering etc.

Not something I'm good with honestly. I feel like buying a kit sometimes just to practice on old phones and all. Might be something fun to learn.


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## CeilingStarer (Dec 29, 2009)

I certainly miss the days when computing was a specialist hobby rather than a seamless part of life for the many.


Dialing up Bulletin Board Systems (BBS) and all the culture surrounding that were the best days of my life. This also extended to dial-up modem gaming (early FPS, RTS games).
Early Internet days were great too. It was a good balance of BBS community & WWW/IRC as you couldn't afford to stay online too long. Rich users would upload their Internet loot to the various BBSs!
Internet remained fun until Facebook and smart phones.



Linux was keeping the "specialist hobby" vibe alive, even up to the mid 2000s. Now a lot of that has been dumbed-down/made accessible on desktop and server. The whole cloud/virtualization direction does not interest me.


Don't really know what I'm saying - the magic has gone and it is what it is. You are correct though - computing is now super easy for the average user.


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## That Random Guy (Jan 31, 2015)

*Well...*

I mean, that's kind of been the whole point. Things evolve, change, and mature. Windows used to require drivers to be pulled and installed but now it'll do it automatically (usually).

I think when it comes to smaller things (and for things that are known), it will always be rather simple to troubleshoot. That being said, and as you eluded to, Google has come to foster an abundance of information related to problems people face with tech. You have so many websites now that offer answers be it in forums, Q&A, articles, etc.

Ok, but with all THAT being said, we are still human. Not all problems and issues that exist can be documented and most importantly, not all things can have an answer.

The more pieces you add to the puzzle, the more complex, the more static, and the more fragile the entire system becomes. This is more commonplace in enterprise/organizational environments, which is why helpdesk is and will continue to be a needed role//functionn in any company.

Some problems are easy, others are not or not as obvious to diagnose. It all boils down to what you know offhand and what you are able to do in the given circumstances.

Lastly, I think it would be accurate to same that-in some large degree-that a lot of things have matured well enough but software still causes problems and will still be buggy as long as humans are the ones making it.


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

As someone who's trying to teach basic stuff to a tech-illiterate middle-aged relative - lolno. We take a lot for granted after decades of using the same/similar OS and software.


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## zonebox (Oct 22, 2012)

CeilingStarer said:


> I certainly miss the days when computing was a specialist hobby rather than a seamless part of life for the many.
> 
> Dialing up Bulletin Board Systems (BBS) and all the culture surrounding that were the best days of my life. This also extended to dial-up modem gaming (early FPS, RTS games).
> Early Internet days were great too. It was a good balance of BBS community & WWW/IRC as you couldn't afford to stay online too long. Rich users would upload their Internet loot to the various BBSs!
> ...


Yep, the early days of dialing into a BBS, and even hosting a BBS were a blast. Even the early days of the Internet were a lot of fun, there was a distinct vibe to it all that is missing now. It is all pretty bland right now, compared to how it used to be.

I feel much the same way toward computing now as I did for World of Warcraft when Cataclysm was released, the game was never difficult, but there was a slight challenge when leveling and doing dungeons and I loved that, exploring the world was a bit dangerous. When Cataclysm was released, the game became incredibly streamlined, and the things that I enjoyed doing in it were made way too easy to the point that I just couldn't enjoy it anymore. Plus, information on how to build the perfect class, strategies to fight any mob, or do dungeons, all became incredibly easy to access. You would have to go out of your way to make the game more difficult. It is not the same though, because intentionally handicapping yourself is not as enjoyable, at least it is not for me.

I know a lot of people love that computers are far more accessible, and I can see their point, I also know that there are challenges out there if you really look for them. But from a purely hobbyist perspective, there is something missing from it all now, it is still kind of fun, but a bit to easy and the emotional rewards from solving technical issues are almost all gone.

I think for me, the drive to get something to work on a computer is missing, when I can just go the easy route and move over to Windows 10. Take for example, getting a video to play on an Amiga is fun - but not at all necessary, and if I really do feel like watching a video at that moment, I can just shift over to my Windows PC and play it.


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## EmotionlessThug (Oct 4, 2011)

I think computing has been purposely made easy for the public. The raw computing is forbidden and that is associated with quantum.


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## Fixxer (Jul 12, 2011)

A lot of people like the Plug and Play of modern stuff.
I do like to mess around though. I also have older stuff. I like to try many apps or do test or try stuff with them. Seeing how much a system can be optimized etc. - I think these days it goes a lot by giving away money and playing instantly. Gaming has become this way too. I initially thought it was a thread about games being easier because people pay to move forward instead of working hard to figure out how to beat the game.


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## asittingducky (Apr 23, 2013)

EmotionlessThug said:


> I think computing has been purposely made easy for the public. The raw computing is forbidden and that is associated with quantum.


Aren't they actively encouraging people to write quantum programs and build up the framework for applications in pharmaceuticals etc right now?


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## uziq (Apr 9, 2012)

I feel like this is just the natural progression of things. Computing was always destined to become more and more accessible, and it will just continue to be that way. Even programming is destined to become a thing of just having an idea, and drag-and-dropping blocks of code to manifest that idea. Or having an AI write it all up for you. Other niches will pop up over time to replace what were once enthusiast hobbies. But I don't really know what they might be. I don't have that kind of foresight, but I think it's inevitable nonetheless.

Perhaps in the future, there will be room for enthusiasts to create crazy quantum physics applications. Interacting with other dimensions. Playing with physical reality.


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## The Strong Silent Type (Sep 24, 2009)

CeilingStarer said:


> I certainly miss the days when computing was a specialist hobby rather than a seamless part of life for the many.
> 
> Dialing up Bulletin Board Systems (BBS) and all the culture surrounding that were the best days of my life. This also extended to dial-up modem gaming (early FPS, RTS games).
> Early Internet days were great too. It was a good balance of BBS community & WWW/IRC as you couldn't afford to stay online too long. Rich users would upload their Internet loot to the various BBSs!
> ...


Completely agree. I remember waiting until midnight so I can log into a BBS to download files or play text based games until my daily 30 minute limit expired. Writing scripts on mIRC and making custom menus. Creating crazy user interfaces on Redhat that would absolutely confuse the sht out of my coworkers. Not to mention all the unique Usenet groups on the net (including one dedicated to Quentin Tarantino movie theories).

Facebook ruined everything. Destroyed most of the good message boards, online gaming sites, along with nearly all chat rooms. Not to mention that the newsfeed is creepy as hell. You can't even like or comment on a post without it potential popping up on several friends' newsfeed.

I wouldn't say programming became much easier. Pascal, which was the most popular language in the mid 90s was very easy to learn. Now everything has libraries and objects and I don't know... I don't program anymore.


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## EmotionlessThug (Oct 4, 2011)

asittingducky said:


> Aren't they actively encouraging people to write quantum programs and build up the framework for applications in pharmaceuticals etc right now?


That's fake codes to write the quantum programs. Not a single programmer in the public can prove this place is digital. How the hell do these programmers in the public uses technology everyday and not know what this place is? Where did the programmers mind originated from?

Makes me think someone is just evaluating how the citizens behave at work using their incomplete tools and software.

You can go to hackforums(dot)net and get software programs so easily, because it's not real programs. The bootleg program can work, but runs incorrectly.

When I think about quantum, I think about emulation.

...Technologies that can perceived existence and copy existence...


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## asittingducky (Apr 23, 2013)

:O What would Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson say... Oh wait, Ken Thompson said every processor has inherent vulnerabilities so everything we're building up is already flawed from the very start.


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