# Facing a life without Love...



## MPS (Oct 27, 2005)

I've pretty much given up on looking for love. I just don't know how to open up to women and be myself. I'll turn 27 next week and my last relationship was when I was 16. I feel i've missed the boat. I'm incredibly inexperienced and even If I yearn for a soul mate, I doubt I could deal with the complexities of a relationship. I can barely hold myself together, how can any woman depend on someone like me?

I try to put this issue out of my mind, but when I see couples together or family members in loving relationships, it tears me up inside. 

Women are so hard to read. They never make the first move and almost always go for the confident, loud, macho types and I'll never be that. 

Life without intimacy, love, longing looks, laughter, sex, holding hands, walking, talking, saying I love you, joking, introduction to parents and marriage is something I'm just going to have to face.

Has anyone else given up on ever finding love?


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## Halcyon (Nov 24, 2003)

MPS said:


> I've pretty much given up on looking for love. I just don't know how to open up to women and be myself. I'll turn 27 next week and my last relationship was when I was 16. I feel i've missed the boat. I'm incredibly inexperienced and even If I yearn for a soul mate, I doubt I could deal with the complexities of a relationship. I can barely hold myself together, how can any woman depend on someone like me?
> 
> I try to put this issue out of my mind, but when I see couples together or family members in loving relationships, it tears me up inside.
> 
> ...


I'm in a similar situation as you, i turn 27 in a months time and the last relationship I had was wayyy way back in grade 7/8...I've been asked out by girls a few times in highschool but I always gave the excuse that I was too busy with basketball when actually I was just afraid and unsure of what to do once i had a girlfriend and was scared of holding someones hand going down the hallway in highschool...just terrible excuses that I regret

I don't think you should give up, there's so many people out there that if you put yourself out there you will find someone...I too am worried about lack of experience and how to properly treat a women and fear of what they'd think of me once they get to know me and many other personal insecurities. I'm also not the loud/macho or cocky type of guy and can't picture myself that way...

I've worked with some women and I tend to always throw questions at them and remain quiet and after 3 or 4 times working in close proximity with the same person I can't seem to form a connection at all, it's always the same as the first meeting for me, I can't seem to get comfortable or form a friendship...I think I'm probably too hard to read lol.


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## bobbyQ (Nov 4, 2006)

*scared!*

I hear your pain. Im actually scared of this myself. im 21, i had one girlfriend when i was 16 but i didn't even like her, and ive only had a few dates in my lifetime. To be honest Ive had no real experience in relationships with girls. I do have some friends with girls, but I fear because of my anxiey with girls that I will lose opportunities for them to feel attracted to me or comfortable around me.

I guess that the fear of this happening may cause me to do something to prevent it from happening. I mean, I am still young, but it seems that time is moving quickly than it used to, and so I may be 27 soon with still no love. I think that in any situation like this, if you want love bad enough you will do ANYTHING to face your fear of meeting a woman, and possibly going out with her. I think ive reached the point in my life where ive had enough of being alone, with no girl calling me, or wanting to be around me. I need a girl in my life so I can feel confident that who I am is attractive. I think that is what every guy wants.!

Good Luck mate and keep us informed about ur progress.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

MPS said:


> I've pretty much given up on looking for love. I just don't know how to open up to women and be myself. I'll turn 27 next week and my last relationship was when I was 16. I feel i've missed the boat. I'm incredibly inexperienced and even If I yearn for a soul mate, I doubt I could deal with the complexities of a relationship. I can barely hold myself together, how can any woman depend on someone like me?
> 
> I try to put this issue out of my mind, but when I see couples together or family members in loving relationships, it tears me up inside.
> 
> ...


You took the words right out of my mouth. (With the exception of the girlfriend at 16 part. I've never come close to even the slightest physical contact with a girl, forget any kind of relationship.)

I am so f'ing close to throwing in the towel for good. Then again, it's not like I've ever been "in the game" anyway.


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## travo (May 20, 2004)

MPS said:


> Women are so hard to read. They never make the first move and almost always go for the confident, loud, macho types and I'll never be that.


They go for guys who will talk to them, yes. That just makes sense, though. You don't have to be macho to talk to women. You do have to stop being afraid.

As for "experience with the opposite sex" that whole notion is somethng SAers worry about for nothing. The reason people will tell you to be yourself is - surprise - the opposite sex is not really such a magical thing, they are people, and you are a person. It's really about coping with a partnership with someone, which is not outside the realm of what you've handled before. I think people who crash and burn the worst in relationships are those that put it all on a pedastal. People who just look for an awesome friend tend to get married and be happy and all that.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Why don't you try joining a dating service like match.com You can even say that you are very shy in your profile.

I know girls who actually LIKE shy guys. And i'm sure after hanging out with them a few times you will feel more comfortable and open up a little.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> Why don't you try joining a dating service like match.com You can even say that you are very shy in your profile.


Good luck getting any replies


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## Matt J (Oct 19, 2006)

I refuse to give up, a life without love is no life at all. I know thats confronting for a lot of people..including myself, but you all know its the truth.

I figure im 33 now...I feel like im in my twenties..I look like im in my twenties...The few woman that do look at me are around my own age or quite a bit younger. Ya its not something I get every day...but I figure theres hope for me yet.

Over the last month Ive been thinking about being in a relationship more and more, of finding love, embracing someone, of intimacy, of sharing my life with someone. The thought of it alone gives me hope.

I aint waving the white flag yet.


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## Chrysalii (Jun 24, 2006)

:sigh 
I'm 19 now, and have never had a relationship. Which puts me on yet another island in regards to my family.
It really annoys me.


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## Lonelyguy (Nov 8, 2003)

> Has anyone else given up on ever finding love?


Pretty much. I'm 31 and I've never been on a date or even touched a woman other than a simple handshake. I don't know how its possible for me to do any of those things. I'm so painfully shy around women I can't even make eye contact. It hurts deeply inside being this way, seeing happy couples together and being reminded of what I don't have. Being like this is a major contributor to my depression, I'm very lonely and I've always had a strong desire for companionship. It feels hopeless right now that I'll ever be able to experience those things.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

AlekParker said:


> I know girls who actually LIKE shy guys.


i think you and i live in different worlds


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

I like your avatar.


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## TomB (Nov 5, 2006)

we will love you until you learn to love yourself, then who knows??


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## tastetheradio (Oct 23, 2006)

i'm 20, i've never had a girlfriend, or any kind of loving/romantic experience in my life. yet at the same time, i know i'm sweet/funny/romantic/charming, when i can be one on one with a nice girl. i rarely get the opportunity to spend time with anyone one on one, let alone a girl who might be receptive to me (the only girls i've ever gotten any time alone with tend to see me as the 'friend' type, nothing more). my biggest problem is, if i find a girl attractive, there are usually a number of non-SA afflicted guys surrounding her, and doing a significantly better job of connecting with her than i could ever hope to. i can't deal with competition, because i invariably lose out and fail to get noticed, and comparing myself to other guys without problems only makes me feel worse.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

I've met girls who find shy guys endearing. Also a sense of humor and charm helps. It's all about making a woman feel comfortable. When I used to talk to girls a lot of them would say i'm sweet and a bit odd, but in a good way. If you are friendly and shy you can come under the radar and not put on that outgoing player front and girls will actually like you. 

Although i've met most girls while i drink and am out, they tend to like me and enjoy my company. I'm very shy, but i push myself to be friendly and silly. I also tease a lot, in a playful endearing way and girls love it. I've had many girlfriends and most of them wouldn't consider me shy. They don't know because they only see what i project and not the inside. I even once told a girl that i'm shy. She said she was too, but she was totally outgoing. She pretty much thought i wasn't being serious, so this kind of shows how social anxiety is really an internal belief problem.

Anyways I'd recommend checking out "Overcomming Social Anxiety Step by Step" by Dr Richards, it's helped me a lot so far. But really there are a lot of other things that help like therapy, medication, books, psychiatry, group therapy, CBT, etc but really you have to push yourself and be motivated about it or else you can't change. When you have some ways to cope and deal with anxiety finding love won't be as bad. You don't have to rid yourself completely of social anxiety, you CAN still be shy and women will like you. Keep taking baby steps and eventually you can date a lot and find a woman who you really are compatable with. You have to change the way you think.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Also, here's a tip for talking to women. Just ask A LOT of questions. Women love to talk and when they have a guy who will actually LISTEN they love it more. A lot of girls i've been with were big talkers and probably loved the fact that i'm more laid back. Girls have said to me that they love how i actually listen to what they're saying. Focus on them, not on yourself and your symptoms. Most people are focused on themselves as we tend to be. Girls are like this, they are focused on themselves, telling their own stories and want what they talk about to be appreciated by YOU. Just show them that you appreciate it by listening and that will be a step in the right direction.

Every once in a while throw in a story that relates to what they are talking about, or else comment and give them your opinion on what they're saying. That's the basics of conversing with women or people in general. just get out there and do it.

You can have shyness and project it as just being laid back and chill. You don't have to come off as nervous if you project it the right way.


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## kevS (Dec 24, 2003)

I gave up looking many years ago in my mid twenties.It felt far better for a while as I could just ignore the problem and stop obsessing on it.Of course society will keep pressurizing us as the basis of any species is to reproduce so we are going against nature itself.

All these tips for talking to women are a load of crap if your shyness is too extreme.if you blush and stutter and show extreme awkwardness simple conversation is almost impossible.The girls at my last job treated me like a freak.Its not their fault of course,they are used to being flirted with and told jokes.Forget equality,the guys always expected to make the first move and know what to do.When he doesn't he's treated as a loser,geek,nerd etc.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

AlekParker said:


> I've met girls who find shy guys endearing. Also a sense of humor and charm helps. .


Well, the problem is this site is for anxious people. Being just shy is one thing but being shy and having anxiety problems is another story.

I've had some chances with girls but the more interested someone becomes the more anxious i get so nothing ever happend and these days i never meet any girls so i don't see any near future changes. 
I don't know if i can feel real love, maybe it's just a dream world inside my head


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

7 years ago i was as you describe "blushing stuttering and showing extreme awkwardness with simple convos" Through time I forced myself to join clubs and socialize even if it was painful. The anxiety doesn't go away, but i cope with it better now especially after reading books, going to therapy and now listening to tapes. I'd recommend you do this, it doesn't take months to get over it, it takes years and years, but along the way you can make it more fun and feel proud of your accomplishments. I've already had many relationships despite my shyness. I've spent years working on myself to get to this point. I've tried everything from drinking and forcing myself to do a speech drunk (this was really dumb) to just organizing get togethers with friends. Read everything you can and actually go through the whole process and you CAN CHANGE. I've had a lot of success with women because of this. It's not just about this though, it's about making yourself actually enjoy social situations. This takes time and practice, and definitely persistence. Alright i'm totally rambling, but overall what i'm saying is you can change, but it will take determination and a lot of time (and perhaps intense therapy)...


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> AlekParker said:
> 
> 
> > I've met girls who find shy guys endearing. Also a sense of humor and charm helps. .
> ...


i understand that. i have social anxiety disorder and i was diagnosed with it when i was 18 (6.5 years ago). Even though we are all SA, and we KNOW internally that we are SA, other people just perceive us as being shy, laid back, chill, reserved, or even arrogant. I had a problem where i would frown any time i talked to people and i later found out from a friend that other's viewed me as a reclusive *** hole.

Just as we are stuck in our heads, most other people are in their own as well. If you tell someone your socially anxious they will think about it for a little while and then not give a *** about it later because it really doesn't matter. They will perceive it as you just being a little shy but really they won't believe you fully. They will prob just say, oh your quiet and shy, not a big deal to them. There life goes on and you and i just continue thinking inside our heads our negative OVERthinking...


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## kevS (Dec 24, 2003)

AlekParker said:


> 7 years ago i was as you describe "blushing stuttering and showing extreme awkwardness with simple convos" Through time I forced myself to join clubs and socialize even if it was painful.


So did I but it got worse not better and I'm way way older than you so my chances have gone.I actually got over a lot of those problems through work but never enough and I would frequently go back to having anxiety attacks in very stressful situations.Things can improve for anyone at any age but many fail on the way.Life really is about survival of the fittest.The weak fail and dont get to breed and pass their genes on so perhaps its a good thing as I would never want any children of mine to feel so much unhappiness.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

AlekParker said:


> Carbon Breather said:
> 
> 
> > AlekParker said:
> ...


That's not me at all. On days when i wake up with high anxiety i sometimes look scared as hell and start to stutter in normal conversations that i other days don't have a problem with. People look at me in a strange way and wonder why im so nervous.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

kevS said:


> AlekParker said:
> 
> 
> > 7 years ago i was as you describe "blushing stuttering and showing extreme awkwardness with simple convos" Through time I forced myself to join clubs and socialize even if it was painful.
> ...


I believe in Natural Selection as well.... Your ancestors passed you survival genes from thousands and thousands of years of natural selection. Actually millions of years accumulated before the first primate ancestor (who was also succesful at reproducing and passing on his genes). The weak do fail and do not pass on their genes. You have succesful traits that run through your genes that made all of your previous ancestors successful in replicating. You have it in you to pass it on, your ancestors did, your dad and mom did and so will you. Just keep working on it.

You being anxious isn't the end of the world... you not doing something about it is.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

> I've met girls who find shy guys endearing. Also a sense of humor and charm helps.


Well sure. You know what also helps? Being tall, good looking, having lots of money, and great social skills. Not everyone has those things though.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> Also a sense of humor and charm helps.


Its pretty hard to crack jokes and be charming when you're having panic attacks and feeling massive anxiety.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

-


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## rebek (Aug 1, 2004)

I use to be so idealistic about love. I even would read romance novels when i was a kid. I also had a dad that really didn't care about me so I was really looking for love. This idealism along with being so shy in my teenage years made me really innocent. And honestly if I could do it again, I would still be a virgin at 30 because I never found my true love. I'm still open to it, and I have a good guy friend that we did date but now were just close friends. Although I'm still open to finding love its not a priority anymore. I was so boy crazy in my late teens, early twenties but I don't know I just don't care that much about it anymore. I'm more interested in doing things that interest me and that I've always wanted to do.


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## Quinzio (Aug 11, 2005)

Tastetheradio


> my biggest problem is, if i find a girl attractive, there are usually a number of non-SA afflicted guys surrounding her


that is the problem i think.
competition. 
we are in a world that we must face competition in everything.
among siblings you have to compete, among coworkers there's competition, among friends, etc..

The problem is that not only attactive girls are sorrounded by non SA/guys, but virtually every woman (ugly, beautiful, tall, short). Only few women are really *alone*. 
There's always somebody making circles around them and you've got to compete.

Shys are not definetly made for competition


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Nice to see you, Quinzio! 

He's right - the shy guys get pushed to the background unless they stand up for themselves!


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## Quinzio (Aug 11, 2005)

Zephyr said:


> > I've met girls who find shy guys endearing. Also a sense of humor and charm helps.
> 
> 
> Well sure. You know what also helps? Being tall, good looking, having lots of money, and great social skills. Not everyone has those things though.


Yep, that is my formula for success with girls. 
It's a multiplication.

Success with girls = (height) * (physical shape) * (money) * (social skills)

Take note that it's a multiplication and not an addition. 
If you lack only one of this traits the product is equal zero.

The best trade is to be balanced in all this traits.


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## Quinzio (Aug 11, 2005)

millenniumman75 said:


> Nice to see you, Quinzio!
> 
> He's right - the shy guys get pushed to the background unless they stand up for themselves!


Hello millennium, nice to see you again.

I've greeted you in another post, but the post got deleted I don;t know why.

I hope you're doing well.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

OOOH! :mum - I have all but the last one!


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Girls have told me that they liked me because i wasn't all loud, an ******* and a player. 

This thread is pretty depressing, yeah i guess you guys should just give up...


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

AlekParker said:


> This thread is pretty depressing, yeah i guess you guys should just give up...


What a thing to say.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

AlekParker said:


> Girls have told me that they liked me because i wasn't all loud, an @$$# and a player.
> 
> This thread is pretty depressing, yeah i guess you guys should just give up...


Heh... i Know many people here can be negative (me included) but i think that is because from experience what you say is not that easy. I have friends with far better social skills than me and they also have trouble finding love. It's one thing if you know some nice girls because then you have somewhere to start but if you don't, starting from zero with anxiety problems is not easy. And i have been out drinkin alot too with my social friends and girls coming up and talk to someone is a very rare thing. Maybe i should move to California....

We should try to be more positive but when nothing ever happens even if you try you get tired....


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## kevS (Dec 24, 2003)

What I find interesting is the cultural ridicule.The whole of society looks down on quiet or shy men as freaks,geeks etc so its no wonder we hide away like freaks and are ashamed to go out.It is a widely held view for women to avoid such nerdy men at all costs.They are far more likely to go for the sporty or successful types.When word got round what I was like at my job you could almost see girls looking at me in that weird way.Keep away from him.He's strange.Of course I have no confidence when the whole female race regarded me as a freak.The advice you read here is often only relevant for the person saying it.if you go to clubs or places as a lone very shy male you will be the object of ridicule by everyone there.What do you do?Sit in the corner of the room on your own reading Shakespeare?You have to conquer certain elements of your SA to even make basic conversation and be able to go out if your SA is too severe.There is a huge difference to being a nice shy guy who is a little quiet to being a nervous sweating wreck unable to think of a thing to say and stuttering.

I haven't given up as I am still alive.I got way better in the last few years as I got to understand SA.Its just that I am too old now so the chances are much smaller.if going to bars and clubs works for you then go for it.However you are just as likely to get worse if you sit in the corner on your own every time while the girls laugh at the freaky nerdy guy and still go for the social talkative confident men.That will cripple your confidence and make you worse.

I remember one very shy man at work a few years ago being egged on to chat a girl up by several other guys.I think you can imagine the approach,"come on go for it,you have nothing to lose" etc.When he finally plucked up the courage the girl reported him for harassment and he ended up having a complete mental breakdown.I'm sure she would mot have done that if he looked like Brad pitt and had confidence and charm.


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## moejo (Aug 29, 2005)

Quinzio said:


> Success with girls = (height) * (physical shape) * (money) * (social skills)
> 
> Take note that it's a multiplication and not an addition.
> If you lack only one of this traits the product is equal zero.
> ...


This is so well put. It's not that hard, and just having a little of each is usually enough.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> AlekParker said:
> 
> 
> > Girls have told me that they liked me because i wasn't all loud, an @$$# and a player.
> ...


Yeah i agree about it not being easy. Over the past 7 years i've put myself in a lot of situations that i dreaded, but after the situation i felt great. I really think people can change through hard work, persistence, positivity and a lot of Time. I know I have and I've become a lot more capable. I had major SA where I wouldn't talk to anyone at all and would dread even looking at people in my family in the eye. I couldn't even say hi to people and would not leave my room. In college for a while I skipped all my classes and avoided the dining hall. I would just order food directly to my room so i wouldn't have to leave it.

Through pushing myself over time I've also been able to become a lot more social at times and have a lot of friends and girl friends in the past. You can change, i'm not saying it's gonna be easy. It's not going to take a year, it's going to take years, or even a lifetime, but along the way you will have some crazy fun times. You have to learn to think different. You have to perceive the world as being neutral and not negative...

Lately i've been going out a lot. I drink moderately and that helps so much with my anxiety. I can actually go out and drink a little and become very social. I know i'm capable of that and now i have a pretty strong social circle. The only problem is lately i've had a sort of relapse in my social anxiety and have been very reclusive... at least now i know change is possible. I'm still not even 40% of where i want to be, but i'm working at it. Alright enough rambling...


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## Morningrise (Aug 7, 2006)

ColdFury said:


> > Why don't you try joining a dating service like match.com You can even say that you are very shy in your profile.
> 
> 
> Good luck getting any replies


 :lol


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

millenniumman75 said:


> OOOH! :mum - I have all but the last one!


That's ok dude. You can develop a social life and be fine. I'm not saying it's going to be over night... but keep working at it and you will succeed. I didn't have a social life at all a while ago, but now i do. keep self improving...


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Morningrise said:


> ColdFury said:
> 
> 
> > > Why don't you try joining a dating service like match.com You can even say that you are very shy in your profile.
> ...


I've told girls i'm shy on the first date and they were ok with that. I was a little buzzed at the time too lol... but i've been able to have relationships with girls who liked my introversion...


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## Smalltime (Nov 9, 2006)

Here is something that helped me:

Take your time choosing who you are going to approach. If it is someone you see everyday, but you can tell it's definitely not going to work out, don't bother. It will just give you a sour taste in your mouth.

Really judge everyone, take the time to look at what they wear, what they do, how they act. Only pursue people you would want to spend the rest of your life with. 

Some of you are saying it is hard to get to know people when you are so anxious, so you are going to have to try harder to get to know them before you get to know them. (Get it?)

Don't be so desperate, trust me it will come.

If you really are that anxious, as said before, a few drinks can help easen you up. Perhaps asking one of your close friends who is the same sex as you to recommend or introduce you to someone they know with the same traits/worries as you.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

AlekParker said:


> Morningrise said:
> 
> 
> > ColdFury said:
> ...


So.. how did you get dates? Did you walk up to someone in a store looking at clothes or something and started to chat like:

Hi, what's your name?
Girl:........
Want to go to a restaurant and eat with me?


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> If you really are that anxious, as said before, a few drinks can help easen you up.


I wish it was that simple.  I have to drink over 750 ml of hard alcohol before I notice any reduction in my anxiety.



> Perhaps asking one of your close friends who is the same sex as you to recommend or introduce you to someone they know with the same traits/worries as you.


That might work, but a lot of us here have no friends at all to introduce us to anyone.

I'm much too anxious to get to know anyone, regardless of who they are.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Most girls i've met either through friends, through school or when i'm drunk or buzzed at a bar. Most were through friends. I didn't get friends over night, i worked on it for years and worked on myself for years.... 

i used to be afraid to walk outside or even go for a drive, at one point about 6 yrs ago i would have panic attacks just if someone started talking to me. my physical symptoms were so bad people at my school would ask me why i'm frowning and all awkward all the time to my face. i would have panic attacks throughout the day... i've done a lot of work to get to where i am right now but i'm still a work in progress...

to anyone with major anxiety- have you read TONs of SA therapy books from cover to cover, forced yourself to go to therapy, forced yourself outside your social comfort zone, asked family and friends for help and support, and been persistent about actually getting help instead of just giving up helplessly? Try it... i'm not saying it will not be extremely difficult, i'm not saying it will take a little while to do... it will take years of mastery and persistence. stop being avoidant...


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Carbon Breather said:


> AlekParker said:
> 
> 
> > Morningrise said:
> ...


no i've actually spent years studying human interaction and dating. i'm talking about reading tons of books and asking people for relationship advice etc... i've gone a long way


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

I'm not talking theory. It's pretty useless to read hundreds of books and then you still can't find someone to date. And you say "i met girls etc..."
, i thought we were talking about finding a serious relationship not a one week relationship with a random girl.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

i've had a lot of long term relationships, that's what i'm talking about... i'm not talking about theory, i actually apply what i read. Also forcing myself to do a lot of things i have dreadful hatred for that's not the only thing i've done to get better...it takes years of diligence and lots of Pain.. it's not easy, it's very hard. Go get therapy, i'm saying this sincerely. That is if you want to get over this. I would give my left arm to be completely rid of this anxiety. I'd rather be fat and poor.


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

I know it's hard, i've tried for years also. Parties, bars , clubs, friends etc ... didn't get me a date. I try to talk to people but that doesn't mean something happens. If you have been in several relationships i don't see how it is so hard for you. Atleast something happens when you try.
I meant what did you say to get dates? To get them interested. You just walked up to someone and said they look interesting or what??


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

> Go get therapy, i'm saying this sincerely.


That doesn't always work either. I tried that for a while but I feel I'm still in the same place. Ditto for meds. And at this point, I can't afford to try either of them again.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> to anyone with major anxiety- have you read TONs of SA therapy books from cover to cover, forced yourself to go to therapy, forced yourself outside your social comfort zone, asked family and friends for help and support, and been persistent about actually getting help instead of just giving up helplessly?


Yes, I've read lots of books, I've been going to therapy for 5 years, done countless exposure exercises, I don't have any friends to ask for help, and my family is not supportive.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Alright guys, sorry about that, but don't you think you've come a long way? I would try match.com or something that's easier. 

Carbon Breather: The hardest thing is to approach the girl and let her know you like her.. ie: asking her on a date, buying her a drink, saying "i like you". It's much easier to go indirect and jsut ask them a question or making a general statement about the bar. Often after i've had a few drinks i'll just say to a girl "Hey what are you drinking" then i go into the same routine and ask her a general question which i ask to everyone when i'm out: "So do you think all rums taste differnt". They usually start saying no the higher end one's taste much better. Then i say no they're all the same, playfully. (i'm usually pretty buzzed when i do this. it took me going out like many times before i could even say hi to a girl even when i'm buzzed) Then start vibing with them, joking around, telling stories (telling stories takes years of practice to get good at) etc. I don't tell a girl i'm into her right away, i just let things flow and see if i like her as well. A lot of it is flirting: you just tease her playfully and she teases back. After talking for some time i will ask for her phone number. But i have a technique for doing this that makes it less awkward. Specifically: after talking for a while with her i'll say "hey so we should hang out again bla bla" talk about something fun. Then when the girl says yes we should she often asks ME for my phone number. Now i've turned the tables and she is now persuing me. This is just one example. I'm not saying this works every time. 

Don't get me wrong: when i do the above i feel so much pain and fear... i feel like crying sometimes. but i've done it so many times that it has become doable for me. I still feel so much anxiety, but once you connect with another person it's awesome and you just start flowing. It takes lots of practice and time, and pushing yourself to do something despite feeling lower then **** while doing it. Luckily alcohol has helped me much in this sense lol.

You get shot down or someone who is just not that interested countless times for every time you get a girl interested. It's kind of a numbers game and you have to find someone your compatable with. Good luck... i've been focusing on this part of my life for 2 yrs and am not quite where i want to get, but i'm getting dates and have had a lot of relationships. Girls are looking for good guys and you guys are all good guys. I have a lot of girl friends who say it's so hard to meet a good man and these are cute girls who are single. It takes a lot of balls to do this, but luckily i have alcohol LOL...


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> I would try match.com or something that's easier.


I don't know if they're that much easier. I've been on a ton of them for years and have barely got any replies to any messages. Seems like the girls on there are very selective.


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## MissBrownEyes (Nov 6, 2006)

Alright so I didnt sit here and read all 4 pages of every single post, but I read the main one.. and thats what I'm here to talk about. I'm over here from a girls point of view, I can never let go of the saying "there is someone for everyone" I beleive we all have a soul mate out there for us, and rather how long it takes I dont know but they are there.

Weird this situation should be mentioned b/c right now i'm into someone whos sorta in the same boat as you guys, he always tells me things like "well we lived differnt life styles youve been w/ a few more men then ive been w/ women" it seems everything we talk about relates back to that fact. We havent talked much about his past b/c he thinks its disrespectful to talk about ex's or the past you have had, this makes it hard, but i'm holding on.. you know what, im just gonna make a post about this in the relationships forum.

but, dear friend, i know im not one of a kind, and im holding onto someone who is sort of sailing in te same boat as you are, dont give up shes out there.


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## nesteroff (Nov 14, 2003)

I have a mad crush on a shy guy right now. I'm SO SICK of these aggressive, overly-forward, overly-extroverted guys that are pushy. This person I've met is so sweet and gentle and kind. He is everything I'm looking for. The fact that he is shy makes him more appealing to me because he understands my shyness.


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## Redox (Jan 20, 2006)

MissBrownEyes said:


> Alright so I didnt sit here and read all 4 pages of every single post, but I read the main one.. and thats what I'm here to talk about. I'm over here from a girls point of view, I can never let go of the saying "there is someone for everyone" I beleive we all have a soul mate out there for us, and rather how long it takes I dont know but they are there.


I think that's complete BS.

A life without love, you say? I've managed for 21 years without one, what's another 10 years, 20 years....etc.


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## jensen (Oct 5, 2006)

"Carbon Breather: The hardest thing is to approach the girl and let her know you like her.. ie: asking her on a date, buying her a drink, saying "i like you". It's much easier to go indirect and jsut ask them a question or making a general statement about the bar. Often after i've had a few drinks i'll just say to a girl "Hey what are you drinking" then i go into the same routine and ask her a general question which i ask to everyone when i'm out: "So do you think all rums taste differnt". They usually start saying no the higher end one's taste much better. Then i say no they're all the same, playfully. (i'm usually pretty buzzed when i do this. it took me going out like many times before i could even say hi to a girl even when i'm buzzed) Then start vibing with them, joking around, telling stories (telling stories takes years of practice to get good at) etc. I don't tell a girl i'm into her right away, i just let things flow and see if i like her as well. A lot of it is flirting: you just tease her playfully and she teases back. After talking for some time i will ask for her phone number. But i have a technique for doing this that makes it less awkward. Specifically: after talking for a while with her i'll say "hey so we should hang out again bla bla" talk about something fun. Then when the girl says yes we should she often asks ME for my phone number. Now i've turned the tables and she is now persuing me. This is just one example. I'm not saying this works every time. "

I'm curious. Did you learn to flirt from reading Tyler Durden or Mystery? They are pick up artists who believe you should attract girls using indirect method. They believe you should'nt show interest in a girl until you get her interested in you through your charm and personality. You mention "vibing" and "telling stories" which are techniques that these guys love to use to attract women. These guys teach their techniques to a lot of shy, introverted guys who want to improve their confidence and social skills with women.

Lately, I've been going to bars to meet women since I don't have to worry about destroying my reputation messing up compared to meeting women through my friends. I want to vouch that teasing and humor is a powerful technique guys can use to attract women. Girls love playful guys who know how to make them feel good.


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## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

> I want to vouch that teasing and humor is a powerful technique guys can use to attract women.


Yeah but....okay, to reiterate this again, a lot of people here *don't know how to do those things*. Just telling someone to 'be funny' or 'tease girls' doesn't tell one *how* to do those things. Long ago, I used to try to tease people and they would just get pissed off at me, so I stopped trying. Maybe I wasn't saying the right things or I wasn't doing it playfully enough, but in any case, it didn't come naturally.


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## el33 (Sep 18, 2006)

Zephyr said:


> > I want to vouch that teasing and humor is a powerful technique guys can use to attract women.
> 
> 
> Yeah but....okay, to reiterate this again, a lot of people here *don't know how to do those things*. Just telling someone to 'be funny' or 'tease girls' doesn't tell one *how* to do those things. Long ago, I used to try to tease people and they would just get pissed off at me, so I stopped trying. Maybe I wasn't saying the right things or I wasn't doing it playfully enough, but in any case, it didn't come naturally.


I have no sense of humor, nor can I pull off teasing successfully.

Actually, that's not completely true. I can do both, but the way I do it is extremely eccentric and geeky. It works easily with my geeky guy friends, but no one else, because they simply wouldn't understand any of it.

That's probably worse than not having a sense of humor at all.


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## MissBrownEyes (Nov 6, 2006)

well redox im sorry you look at it that, im not saying someone has to have someone, but what im saying is there is someone for everyone. its just my opion thats all


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

jensen, i know of them and have read them. i wouldn't recommend their exact styles for guys who are really anxious though because that could actually make you more self conscious. I have learned that all that technique crap doesn't mean anything if you are anxious... you really have to self-improve and build on yourself over years to be good with women, or people in general.

I have problems with a lot of their stuff and it's too methodical and unatural. I like being more natural, but their techniques are definitely a nice crutch if you're shy like me. I kind of blend it all into my own shyness. I like to just be playful and silly with girls and it seems to work and covers my anxiety. Have you heard of Juggler? i like his style more because he's less into impressing and putting down girls and more into building genuine connection with people. 

The problem with all these is that they are not really for guys who are super anxious like us. Throwing yourself into a bar full of women isn't going to cure your social anxiety. You need coping mechanisms from things like CBT or other therapies to deal with it. Getting over anxiety takes repetition, exposure, persistence, and pain. Good luck, if you want more help PM me.


--
I don't know how alcohol worked for you guys, but for me i used to drink it A LOT (too much) in college. Since then i drink a lot less, but i do it moderately when i go out to bars. This has helped me immensely. I don't think i would have had any relationships if it weren't for alcohol... it definitely quenches my anxiety and makes meeting people easier. I probably shouldn't be recommending this but it has worked for me. Just do it moderately and only socially....


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## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

AlekParker said:


> The problem with all these is that they are not really for guys who are super anxious like us. Throwing yourself into a bar full of women isn't going to cure your social anxiety. You need coping mechanisms from things like CBT or other therapies to deal with it. Getting over anxiety takes repetition, exposure, persistence, and pain. Good luck, if you want more help PM me.
> 
> .


Exactly. The problem is that it takes time, and not the same amount of time for everyone. I have done exposure stuff with my agoraphobia for like 10 years but i still sometimes feel like passing out when i walk in the city.

I think you have to be a certain type of person to be able to do stuff like that. You obviously are that type, i know many people without SA that have never met a girl without help from friends , at work etc.... So i don't know if getting rid of SA will really help. I mean, i look at people i know that have zero anxiety and they still can't find someone or get a date with someone they just met.


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

Sorry to hear that. Have you tried meeting with other SA people and maybe that would be a start towards a relationship? I truly think for every guy out there in search of a woman, there is a woman out there in search for a man. There are women with the same problems as you and want a relationship but cannot because of their anxiety. I think there's a website that is like match.com but for people with SA.

Actually i just googled it: http://www.socialanxietymatch.com/

These are people with the same problems as you and maybe u could meet up?
Another possibility is meeting someone at an SA therapy group? i don't know...


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## Lostsoul (Nov 18, 2004)

If I never met anyother person again I can at least say I experenced love. That quote it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all is true. Anyway love isn't just romatic as long you have family that's something. I think the harder you look for love for the relationships the more elusive they become. 

Anyway, worst comes to worst you can always buy a cute girl from China or Russia!


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

jensen said:


> Girls love playful guys who know how to make them feel good.


Girls love Slip and Slides, magic goats, and golden retrievers.

Where does this magical "girl" logic come from? No insult to you, Jensen. But if this stuff is true, do I really want to be with a girl that wants to be played with at a bar, while we are both drunk? It seems like the book and internet world has a steady population of guys telling guys what women want/like. Who knows... maybe some of it works.

I don't really think so for the most part


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

Zephyr said:


> > I want to vouch that teasing and humor is a powerful technique guys can use to attract women.
> 
> 
> Yeah but....okay, to reiterate this again, a lot of people here *don't know how to do those things*. Just telling someone to 'be funny' or 'tease girls' doesn't tell one *how* to do those things. Long ago, I used to try to tease people and they would just get pissed off at me, so I stopped trying. Maybe I wasn't saying the right things or I wasn't doing it playfully enough, but in any case, it didn't come naturally.


I agree. If teasing and humor is your strong suit, then go with it. There are _many_ things that make people appealing, not just a few strict categories. I guess, maybe, the majority of women are attracted to men by humor, playfulness, or whatever, but not all of them are. 
Personally, I am not at all attracted by "teasing." It pisses me off. 
I also don't care if a man is funny or not; that makes absolutely no impact on me whatsoever. There are more important things, really.


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## green and lonely (May 29, 2006)

MPS said:


> I've pretty much given up on looking for love. I just don't know how to open up to women and be myself. I'll turn 27 next week and my last relationship was when I was 16. I feel i've missed the boat. I'm incredibly inexperienced and even If I yearn for a soul mate, I doubt I could deal with the complexities of a relationship. I can barely hold myself together, how can any woman depend on someone like me?
> 
> Has anyone else given up on ever finding love?


Wow, there's so much here I relate to that I hardly know where to begin...and how did I miss this thread, anyway? Well, judging from the number of responses, there are a lot of us in the same situation. I've got roughly 24 hours left of my twenties, and my last relationship ended when I was 17. When I was younger, I never dreamt that I would be 30 and still unmarried. Now I seriously doubt that I ever will be. I've often wondered what would be crueller...losing hope completely or torturing oneself with that tiny remaining spark...

I still don't know. :stu

Reading through some of the responses in this thread, though, I've noticed some rather amazing assumptions that a lot of the men here are making about women. We're not all the same, you know. :lol And not all of us are attracted to the same things...we're not all looking for tall, dark, and handsome...or rich, either.



Njodis said:


> I am short ("5'5 on a good day) which no doubt plays a huge part in my social phobia. I just feel like everyone looks at me as a kid, even though I am in my 20s.


Hey, I'm only 5 feet tall, so you'd *tower* over me, if that makes you feel any better.  I know what you mean about being taken for a kid, though. I had someone tell me yesterday that they thought I was 19. She was off by more than a decade!

Sorry...forgive me if I'm rambling a bit. I'm exhausted and should probably have gone to bed instead of sitting up posting. ops


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## BeNice (Jan 2, 2004)

Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> I guess, maybe, the majority of women are attracted to men by humor, playfulness, or whatever, but not all of them are.
> Personally, I am not at all attracted by "teasing." It pisses me off.
> I also don't care if a man is funny or not; that makes absolutely no impact on me whatsoever. There are more important things, really.


Maybe this is true. I have no idea, really. My friend is "playful" and flirts with these girls. I call them his fan club. I almost find it disgusting. I have a sense of humor, but I don't wish to be interact that way with women. Maybe I'm just too serious or something, I dunno.


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## Skroderider (Oct 4, 2006)

Lostsoul said:


> Anyway, worst comes to worst you can always buy a cute girl from China or Russia!


No way! We're already having a shortage of them :lol


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## renholder (Nov 16, 2006)

After reading a lot of the intial posts, it seems to me that even if there were a chance, some of you guys might even deny it, saying if you did meet someone, your tendency might be to ignore the chance that might be in front of your eyes.

With all these anxiety disorders, especially S.A. I think meeting people are especially difficult, but any reasons you may come up with for not being able to interact with women, are more reasons that you should test.

Cuz lord knows I'm in the same boat. No matter the age, time or place, these are chances to put your believed "shortcomings" or worries to test. It ultimately is, a matter of the will. But getting yourself in the dumps about it, is the last thing that any of us would need to do. the motivation my friends, will come after the doing. I'm working on it... and I'm with ya guys in heart.



> the work the eyes is done, do now the work of the heart


 ~Rilke


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## MidnightBlu (Jun 11, 2006)

Story of my life. I feel frustrated about it. Why is it hard?


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## MidnightBlu (Jun 11, 2006)

Story of my life. I feel frustrated about it. Why is it hard?


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## AlekParker (Oct 31, 2006)

renholder said:


> After reading a lot of the intial posts, it seems to me that even if there were a chance, some of you guys might even deny it, saying if you did meet someone, your tendency might be to ignore the chance that might be in front of your eyes.
> 
> With all these anxiety disorders, especially S.A. I think meeting people are especially difficult, but any reasons you may come up with for not being able to interact with women, are more reasons that you should test.
> 
> ...


renholder so true... Keep working on it. Force yourself to do it even if it's painful. I've been hurt so many times and the more i have been the less it affects me. You only live life once, there's no rewind button so live in the present and just do it. What I've noticed by pushing myself into painful situations is that they are never as bad as i anticipate. Now I've been shutting down negative thoughts when it comes to anticipation, although during the situations i still have some anxiety. Basically you have to accept this and just push yourself anyways.

I think love and companionship is so important and we always put it in the backburner due to our anxieties. It's better to have loved and lost then to have never loved at all. Think about what you're so afraid of, rationalize how bad it really is, then force yourself to do it.

If you're focusing on hwo you will never love and get all depressed about it then you'll never find love. You have to start bettering yourself. Work on yourself and your fears... Once again I'm not saying this **** is easy, but life isn't as hard as we SA's make it seem. Just freaking do it.

Alek

ps

I love this: 
renholder wrote:


> But getting yourself in the dumps about it, is the last thing that any of us would need to do. the motivation my friends, will come after the doing.


It's so true.


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## ColdFury (Nov 6, 2003)

> After reading a lot of the intial posts, it seems to me that even if there were a chance, some of you guys might even deny it, saying if you did meet someone, your tendency might be to ignore the chance that might be in front of your eyes.


I have no chances to ignore. I haven't even talked to a (non-family) female in person for months and months.


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## renholder (Nov 16, 2006)

well, what I meant was not to overlook it, because sometimes the chances are there. If the case is that you really have had no contact, then maybe try to find some activities that might put you in the situation where you would have to interact with some women. There are meetups for people with the same interests with you I'm sure, and you can probably find those groups online. I just got into meetup.com. Invite the instances where you will have to interact too, simply when you are out and about, it could be a hello, and like many other experiences I have read on here, those simple hellos become long convos, and who knows. Invite the situations to arise! it might stir something up?


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## Mr. SandMan (Aug 24, 2007)

MPS said:


> I've pretty much given up on looking for love. I just don't know how to open up to women and be myself. I'll turn 27 next week and my last relationship was when I was 16. I feel i've missed the boat. I'm incredibly inexperienced and even If I yearn for a soul mate, I doubt I could deal with the complexities of a relationship. I can barely hold myself together, how can any woman depend on someone like me?
> 
> I try to put this issue out of my mind, but when I see couples together or family members in loving relationships, it tears me up inside.
> 
> ...


I know this **** is from a while ago. But I feel tha same way, I don't know if I believe in love.


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## odd_one_out (Aug 22, 2006)

I've never searched for it. I don't expect to come across it in the future.


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## deadwarrior666 (May 12, 2009)

MPS said:


> I've pretty much given up on looking for love. I just don't know how to open up to women and be myself. I'll turn 27 next week and my last relationship was when I was 16. I feel i've missed the boat. I'm incredibly inexperienced and even If I yearn for a soul mate, I doubt I could deal with the complexities of a relationship. I can barely hold myself together, how can any woman depend on someone like me?
> 
> I try to put this issue out of my mind, but when I see couples together or family members in loving relationships, it tears me up inside.
> 
> ...


I feel the SAME bro. I have totally given up. Atleast u had a relationship, i never had one. I am total failure with women and I dont care now. I seek other things


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## deadwarrior666 (May 12, 2009)

@MPS

try looking for women with SA, you might have chance with them


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

This thread is over 4 years old and yet it still rings true for some of the members who have posted in it, including myself.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Yeah, I have never had a first date, first kiss, anything.

I'm not a loser, except in dating and relationships.


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