# "Can't Think of Anything to Say" // Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)



## Tumbling Destiny (May 13, 2012)

I figure we could do with another SCT thread around here, since I don't think this topic is ever given much attention.

A bit of background: SCT is a condition in which a person is always in a kind of under-aroused state. It's been closely linked to the ADHD Primarily Inattentive subtype, although a lot of the latest research is stating that it's an entirely different disorder by itself. Another important distinction to make is that it's more often characterized by social withdrawal rather than the social aggression you often hear about with other ADHD subtypes.

I'm not sure if I have it, but I think my main symptoms kind of fall in line with it. I always feel like not all of my neurons are firing properly and general language comprehension has always been difficult. The right connections aren't always made, and when they are, it's terribly terribly slow. It's like some really strange mental block that prevents me from doing any meaningful thinking, because that would be too taxing on the brain (hahahaha). It's like my mind's natural state is blank and thoughts kind of pop in randomly unless a lot of energy is used. This contributes to my SA because finding the things you want to say in conversations becomes very difficult when you're not thinking anything meaningful...

Completely, astonishingly AWFUL working memory and processing speed are also two huge pains for me, although I've no idea if they're related. I have to write down and paraphrase EVERYTHING if I want it to make any kind of sense to me on a whole. I also find that my symptoms seem to mirror sleep deprivation symptoms, so perhaps it's that. I'm really hoping I gain a modicum of self-control so I can adopt a better sleeping schedule when I get to college.

If anyone could post what has helped them or how they deal with SCT, that would be tremendously helpful. Also how SA symptoms changed/lessened after treating this problem. Thank you! =)


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## enfield (Sep 4, 2010)

Cheery said:


> I figure we could do with another SCT thread around here, since I don't think this topic is ever given much attention.
> 
> A bit of background: SCT is a condition in which a person is always in a kind of under-aroused state. It's been closely linked to the ADHD Primarily Inattentive subtype, although a lot of the latest research is stating that it's an entirely different disorder by itself. Another important distinction to make is that it's more often characterized by social withdrawal rather than the social aggression you often hear about with other ADHD subtypes.
> 
> ...


umm what about TRYING A STIMULANT. it can change your life. for the better if you use them smartly, a lot for the better if you do that, or for the worse if you don't. but nothing compares. no other intervention to ADHD / SCT will stack up to the right prescriptions and the right dosing of the stimulants to the human.

exercise and having an optimal-ish diet is okay, but i am kind of taking for granted that you have figured those things out for yourself. but if you are eating junkfood, any at all, quit it, seriously. if i see you with a soda in your hand i will slap it right out of your little hand. to the ground. where it will spill out and form a medium sized puddle around the can, as tends to happen when soda cans get dropped by senseless soda-drinkers (or knocked from the hand, as the case may be).

i seem to to fit the diagnostic criteria ADHD inattentive subtype. i don't now what to do about this either. on the one hand the idea of more fluid general language processing might not be all that realistic. not all of us are prodigious like feelsbadmang. and this is something we will be forced to live with, notwithstanding futuristic scientific advancements which no one really believes in. but if you want to be able to function like how more normal people function there may be more of a chance for that. i don't know how much of a chance. but with medications? drugs? probably a big chance. without them? probably not much of a chance.

when you talk about wanting to gain self control i want to lose my self control and be shouty. better sleeping schedules in college? ahaha, not where you're going. (i'm being realistic. nonexceptional students at prestigious colleges in competitive programs do not sleep or even tend to have that much fun).


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## Tumbling Destiny (May 13, 2012)

Have you tried this? What stimulants have you used/worked for you? But yes, this is what I've been taking away from Google as well. Exercise and diet are fine, and I don't drink soda so I hope your mind is appeased. xD



enfield said:


> on the one hand the idea of more fluid general language processing might not be all that realistic. not all of us are prodigious like feelsbadmang. and this is something we will be forced to live with.


Aren't you contradicting yourself here? I think more fluid processing is a very realistic idea. I actually do have rare moments of clarity when I kind of feel like a normal human being (during LH surges - although you wouldn't understand this, since you are supposedly a male and all). I think it would be good to keep believing there is a way.

Yes, I laughed to myself while typing that bit about getting more sleep at college as well...


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## enfield (Sep 4, 2010)

Cheery said:


> Have you tried this? What stimulants have you used/worked for you? But yes, this is what I've been taking away from Google as well. Exercise and diet are fine, and I don't drink soda so I hope your mind is appeased. xD


.

i haven't. i was going to until i decided to forget it. now i would be embarrassed to go through the whole thing again - what if i ran into the same psychologist. i did make it past the initial screening, fielded the call by the nurse, but then didn't want to get the required blood tests, so i didn't, and never showed up to the psychiatric appointment. anyhow, for the socially anxious, adderall seems to generally be superior to ritalin since it's less anxiogenic. and the anxiogenic effects of stimulants can be a real problem to people who already have anxiety issues. one possible downside to adderall is it's neurotoxicity long term if taken frequently, while ritalin is never neurotoxic as far as we know. this is because their mechanisms of action are very distinct, which makes some of the general properties of each (half life, potency) vary even though they kind of do the same main thing. i don't really know what i'm saying but a lovely answer explaining the differences between the two can be found here, not that it's necessary to know any of that.you do have to be careful about tolerance and may not want to take them daily or more than daily depending on what the standard recommendations for the different formulations are - you may not want to take that advice. it works okay for some people, but far sub-optimally for others.



> Aren't you contradicting yourself here? I think more fluid processing is a very realistic idea. I actually do have rare moments of clarity when I kind of feel like a normal human being (during LH surges - although you wouldn't understand this, since you are supposedly a male and all). I think it would be good to keep believing there is a way.


oh, that's good. that sounds good. now i'm wondering where i can get one of these LH surges. it's good to have an accurate view of what kinds of benefits to a person can be expected from whatever beneficial thing they're trying. some people get too carried away with what is possible, some don't see all that is possible. but i don't know, i think have a sensitivity to those who have aspirations for themselves which they will (very likely) never reach. this seems sad.



> Yes, I laughed to myself while typing that bit about getting more sleep at college as well...


the student who ran the admissions blog that was supposed to be about MIT life wrote this. it's kind of long. but it's typical good writing. lolz..
http://tech.mit.edu/V132/N59/lydiakblog.html


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

SCT is terribly understudied. Most studies are (rather meaninglessly) studying the link between it, ADHD, and executive function. Psychology has come under fire recently for being terribly disconnected from neuroscience (and actual science, really).

We don't know the mechanism that causes ADHD to begin with and our best guess is something to do with norepinephrine and serotonin and the solution is to arrogantly play with the levels. I really think this is a naive solution to the problem of many mental disorders like SA, depression (especially), and ADHD.

The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But you have my deep sympathies, I've experienced foggy brain and the "slow brain" feeling quite a bit in my teens. It's quite ... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻, for lack of a better word.

The treatment options are bad, worse, and terrible. I find it difficult to recommend any stimulants beyond caffeine for SCT unless it's terribly debilitating.  Ritalin is a controlled substance for a reason (although it's not really abused by people who actually have a positive effect from it), but there are also cardiovascular stresses to consider. It's really up to you whether you think it's worth dabbling in just to fix your brain.

Sleep deprivation can exasperate your problem but it is not the underlying cause. There is something be said about increased anxiogenic effects from being sleep deprived which would then lead to worsened depression/ADHD. Chronic sleep deprivation typically doesn't manifest itself in this way and I do not believe you have it.

And as enfield said, there is a disturbing anxiogenic side effect to stimulants. A low dose of caffeine is anxiolytic, but the higher dose required to really boost mental functions is going to be anxiogenic. Finding a caffeinated tea you like just to help deal with anxiety (low caffeine) may be beneficial for SA and general well being, I'll expand more on teas later.

It's better to take a shot at some other things first. Diet and exercise can make differences in mental performance. Try cutting out specific things like dairy for a week or so and see if there's any improvement in how you're feeling. Dairy, soy, and grains (just cutting back, replacing with meats and vegetables). If you're really feeling experimental you could try hitting up ketosis and seeing how you respond to that (although I highly doubt sugar is your problem).

HIIT is the form of exercise I recommend, but I'd find something you enjoy. Any kind of exercise is going to improve your mood and generally everything, at least a bit. HIIT I recommend because it's going to be the most benefit to the cardiovascular system which can help you handle stimulants better (and requires less time for more physical improvement).

Playing around with various nootropics may be your safest bet. It might take a bit of experimenting to find the right blend, but they speed up mental processing while retaining a (mild) anxiolytic effect.

I am extremely fascinated by your feeling normal during LH surges. It would be important to tell the doctor about this. If the solution for you is a simple hormone imbalance that would be fantastic. Either way, I'm moderately convinced there's something more going on than some ADHD. It would be wise to have your levels tested at the very least.

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But at the end of the day we don't really know what's causing it and we're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.

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As for teas, they're quite wonderful. Chamomile has the pleasant effect of helping people sleep. Kava may also help if you need something heavier.

I don't really quite know how big your exposure to teas are, in terms of the caffeinated kinds, but I'm sure there's one out there you'll enjoy. Talk to me sometime and we can discuss different flavors (I always wanted to work in a tea shop).

Or invest in some over the counter sleeping pills (Doxylamine succinate, Diphenhydramine).

I can tell you that the herbs are fairly safe, but the OTC meds might cause some creepy side effects (but really, they're non habit forming and very safe and effective). I suppose if you're concerned you can ask a doctor about them.

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There's no reason to give up hope. There _is_ a reason you feel this way and we can find it and fix it.


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## yummynoodles (Apr 23, 2013)

i can never think of anything to say as im trying to think of what to say in my head without trying to talk first. sometimes people ask me what i just said,when i havent said anything,as i was still thinking.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

I didn't hear about this until another SAS member suggested it to me. I'm almost certain I have this. I can only think and articulate normally when I am alone and it's quiet. When I'm in social situations, I feel overwhelmed and taxed. Everything feels confusing. People's words sound like incomprehensible gibberish and I stay locked in my head.


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## FerociousFleur (Oct 30, 2012)

This is really interesting... never heard of SCT before, but I've definitely had those issues. Thanks for sharing so many tips! I really want to try some green/black tea and see if it helps


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## Mr Knight (Jan 21, 2014)

This is my first post here, joined a minute ago. I wanted to say that I've been trying to research my symptoms for four months and this is one of the closest things to what I've felt. Thank you very much! 

Completely agree with you about the "blankness" of mind and having to write things down to make sense of them. I find that even when I do, sometimes it makes no sense. 

At the same time, I find myself drawn to other peoples conversations. I don't know whether that has to do with being interested in social construction, or empathy, or just needing something to focus on. I never have a lot to say unless its something I've been doing for years and years or am in an extremely good mood. 
In the same vain, I enjoy watching sitcoms and feel as though that gives me power to enter conversations. I love the banter and back and forth talk, and can emulate characters I watch for a while after binging on a show like Modern Family, or The Office. 

Just trying to make sense of it all.


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## spacewoman (Mar 12, 2014)

I've not been diagnosed with SCT but I have manifested many of the symptoms all my life. However, going back to education as a mature student I realised tyhat I had developed coping skills that I didn't have when I was at school. I was always getting lost, never knew which class I was supposed to be in, was always disorganised, "scatter-brained", was accused of "spacing out", not understanding or being able to follow simple instructions, day-dreaming, being absent minded and forgetful, finding mental tasks, especially left brain activities very difficult. Mathematical problems always eluded me! I still have only sporadic concentration and will "space out" even when I'm not bored and I have difficulty processing information. However, I don't have poor language learning skills and I love reading so those last things are atypical of SCT. I'm very good at artistic pursuits which is not atypical and I have developed good social skills.
My main problem in adulthood has been holding down a job but I successfully completed an honours degree in English Literature with a high 2-1 so I know I'm not stupid. I would say, don't worry about college. You're probably going to spend a bit longer accomplishing tasks but you will get there if you apply yourself and leave yourself enough time as you will process information more slowly. You may find you lose concentration during lectures but that's not a problem as you can read up the subject in your own time. After college is going to be the biggest challenge as people out there don't understand this condition and don't make allowances for it. Unfortunately stimulants aren't really going to help you function normally and I do wish there was more help out there for adults with this condition. As yet, it seems, that there is not.


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