# Im gonas quit that SSRI. Thanks 5htp



## flapjacker (Nov 30, 2008)

Ive been mixing 5htp with SSRi, which is not recommended but considering I've lowered my sertraline dosage to the minimum and that my doctor recommended combining sertraline with prozac (for withdrawals, prozac has a longer half-life) which I think is craaazy, I feel that I am in no way out of line to experiment with low doses of 5htp.

So I've been experimenting for a while, and I have to say 5htp is very fast acting and has a tremendous effect on my mood. In fact it works just as well as if I stay at a certain dosage of SSRI (50mg normally). Now I don't want to be on SSRI forever. It's worked wonders for me, but I do not want to see a doctor for the rest of my life.

That said, I think I'm going to come off the SSRI completely and stick to 5htp for a while. I'll keep you posted.

Another bonus is I can take 5htp as needed. I don't exactly need to take it every day. Some days I just feel mentally drained than others. Theres usually factors to consider, recreation and my sleeping patterns. Anyway, I'm just giving props to 5htp. Works for me.


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## flapjacker (Nov 30, 2008)

Thank you for that information I will actually be taking it into consideration, especially for my next taper.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I wouldn't even dream of taking 5-htp long-term without carbidopa, unless you WANT to develop heart valve problems.

In fact, I believe in Europe the combination is fairly commonly prescribed for just this purpose.

Though I don't find it useful at all as an antidepressant.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

meyaj said:


> I wouldn't even dream of taking 5-htp long-term without carbidopa, unless you WANT to develop heart valve problems.
> 
> In fact, I believe in Europe the combination is fairly commonly prescribed for just this purpose.
> 
> Though I don't find it useful at all as an antidepressant.


+1
Taking 5HTP without cardidopa is a bad idea.


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## dizzy99 (Mar 20, 2010)

What would be the advantage of taking 5-HTP over Tryptophan?


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## mike8803 (Feb 21, 2010)

Try an MAOI.


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## mike8803 (Feb 21, 2010)

Stop mixing SSRI's together, taking loads of benzo's a day

Take 1 MAOI, two times daily, follow the food restrictions (not that many), and have success. But if you want to be an addict and pop pills daily, nothing is going to change.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

While most people associate MDMA with serotonin, it's a potent releaser of ALL 3 of the major neurotransmitters (SE/NE/DA). The euphoric effects have been demonstrated to be almost entirely mediated through the action of dopamine. Serotonin can play a role in modulating it, but not really the euphorigenesis itself.

Besides, there's a lot more to the antidepressant effects of SSRIs than merely flooding the brain with serotonin, a lot of which we still don't fully understand. In fact, as I know you're aware, most 5-HT receptors tend to exert the opposite effect you're looking for. SSRIs have also been shown to promote hippocampal neurogenesis with chronic use, as well as exerting a number of effects on pro-inflammatory cytokines that is very likely to help with the sickness behavior usually seen in depressed patients. As far as I'm aware, none of this has been demonstrated with any sort of 5-HT/precursor administration.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> You are incorrect I'm afraid. See this paper as an example:
> 
> 
> MDMA self-administration is abolished in serotonin transporter knockout mice (2007)
> I can go into more detail on this subject if you'd like. In any case, ask anyone who's done both high dose amphetamine (or methamphetamine) and MDMA and they'll tell you there's something 'magical' about MDMA in comparison, myself included.


The study is interesting but hardly provides absolute proof that I'm wrong. The subjective feeling of euphoria can be reinforcing (though animal models are not perfect in this regard), but simply being reinforcing does not at all absolutely imply euphoria.

I've done MDMA, I know what you mean about that "magical" feeling, but it's really not completely serotonin-mediated. Even methamphetamine is VERY serotonergic. Like I said, the experience of euphoria can be modulated by serotonin. I have very little doubt that this "magic" can largely be attributed to 5-ht2a agonism, but that is not in and of itself euphorigenesis, as you can easily see in the more typical psychedelics, so I'm not sure why you are providing high-dose amphetamine as a counter-example because, while it may not have the same quality, and few would consider it AS enjoyable, it is certainly euphorigenic itself.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> I would simply say that both serotonin and dopamine are crucially necessary for MDMA's magic and that even norepinephrine plays an important role as well.
> 
> This is also false. Both amphetamine and methamphetamine indeed have some in vitro serotonin-releasing activity but they're very, very weak relative to dopamine and norepinephrine and more than likely not significant at all, especially in humans. See these two tables:
> 
> ...


Fair enough on the numbers. I definitely recalled that pretty incorrectly. The cocaine numbers are very interesting to me... even though it's usually thought of as more of a traditional stimulant, the stuff I've tried in Central America always felt more like MDMA to me than amphetamine.

Also, I was not at all saying that dopamine is the only thing that plays a role in the subjective euphoria of MDMA, if that's what it seemed like. What I was trying to get at is that dopamine is absolutely necessary for any drug to have euphoriant effects, and that serotonin plays more of a role in altering the quality of that euphoria (the flavor of MDMA's magic, so to speak) than actually functioning as a euphorigenic. MDAI/MDMAI are likely excellent examples of serotonin's function in the drug.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> You edited your post.. I'll address the rest in a few.


Yeah, I tend to do that. Never satisfied with it the first time, heh.

Be my guest but I think I'm done, I'm a bit messed in the head and letting this thread stress me out a bit too much, so I'm not really going to try and argue anything further, for sanity's sake. OCPD blows.

Feel free to take this as conceding or finish up and try to convince anyone else in the thread or whatever you want.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

:lol don't worry about it, that's not what I meant. I'm much more upset with myself for taking so long to realize I was letting myself be sucked in... again. I waste a disgusting amount of time being so heavily invested in being "right."


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm glad you're so understanding


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

I take 200mg 5-htp w/L-Tyrosine about 4 days a week and it's pretty effective for my mood. Should I get some cardidopa also?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> I take 200mg 5-htp w/L-Tyrosine about 4 days a week and it's pretty effective for my mood. Should I get some cardidopa also?


Yes


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## inVis420 (Jul 15, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Yes


I gotta get that asap then. Also, can I take Phenibut w/memantine (I read that it has nootropic effects)?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

inVis420 said:


> I gotta get that asap then. Also, can I take Phenibut w/memantine (I read that it has nootropic effects)?


Yes, you can definatly take it with memantine.


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## pboy (Jul 18, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> +1
> Taking 5HTP without cardidopa is a bad idea.


Hey all.

I'm weaning off lexapro at the moment. Want to try 5htp once I'm off, but getting cardidopa is not going to happen for me. Can I still take 5htp? Everywhere I have read about 5htp use suggests using it with tyrosine so dopamine levels dont get pushed down, but never heard anything about cardidopa.


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## Bluemeow (Apr 18, 2009)

Try taking the sublingual form of 5htp and you will avoid the first liver bypass, which causes the problem of converting 5htp to serotonin in the body before it crosses the blood brain barrier. I use other medications trans-dermally, and I can tell you they are great! They are made by a compounding pharmacist. Any time you can take a drug via a trans-dermal route, it is probably better. The first liver bypass changes the molecular structure of the drug. I know this from my research on women's hormones.
You don't need a compounding pharmacist to make sublingual 5htp. Carlson makes a brand that I like and works well.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

flapjacker said:


> So I've been experimenting for a while, and I have to say 5htp is very fast acting and has a tremendous effect on my mood. In fact it works just as well as if I stay at a certain dosage of SSRI (50mg normally). Now I don't want to be on SSRI forever. It's worked wonders for me, but I do not want to see a doctor for the rest of my life.
> 
> Another bonus is I can take 5htp as needed. I don't exactly need to take it every day. Some days I just feel mentally drained than others. Theres usually factors to consider, recreation and my sleeping patterns. Anyway, I'm just giving props to 5htp. Works for me.


How much 5 htp are you taking per day?

Cheers,


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

pboy said:


> Everywhere I have read about 5htp use suggests using it with tyrosine so dopamine levels dont get pushed down, but never heard anything about cardidopa.


Yeah same. WTF is cardidopa????? :sus

Cheers,


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.imminst.org/forum/topic/...ake-for-5-htp-to-be-effective-for-depression/

5-HTP is useless when taken chronically.

It does work however as needed, and should be used as needed.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

inVis420 said:


> I take 200mg 5-htp w/L-Tyrosine about 4 days a week and it's pretty effective for my mood. Should I get some cardidopa also?


I have no idea what cardidopa is, but i think the 5htp + Tyrosine combo is pretty solid.

Cheers,


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

crayzyMed said:


> http://www.imminst.org/forum/topic/...ake-for-5-htp-to-be-effective-for-depression/
> 
> 5-HTP is useless when taken chronically.
> 
> It does work however as needed, and should be used as needed.


I have used 5 htp in the past, and it works pretty well.

I think it can be effectively used on a 5 days on, 2 days off type cycle.

Cheers,


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Eric69 said:


> I have used 5 htp in the past, and it works pretty well.
> 
> I think it can be effectively used on a 5 days on, 2 days off type cycle.
> 
> Cheers,


Thats possible, i havent seen the study showing tolerance myself yet so i dont know how fast tolerance builds, a regime with a few days off is definatly the way to go tough, so yours can work good.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Eric69 said:


> I have no idea what cardidopa is...


It's called Carbidopa and mostly used in combination with L-Dopa for persons with parkinson's disease.



> Carbidopa is also used in combination with 5-HTP, a naturally occurring amino acid which is a precursor to the neurotransmitter serotonin and an intermediate in tryptophan metabolism. Carbidopa prevents 5-HTP's metabolism in the liver and the resulting elevated levels of serotonin in the blood. Research shows that co-administration of 5-HTP and carbidopa greatly increases plasma 5-HTP levels. Without the use of carbidopa, there is a significant risk of heart valve disease when taking 5-HTP, due to serotonin's effect on the heart.[2][3] In Europe, 5-HTP is prescribed with carbidopa to prevent the conversion of 5-HTP into serotonin until it reaches the brain.[4]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbidopa


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Regular (small) breaks and cardidopa is the way to go with 5HTP.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Certain serotonin receptors in the heart, when activated, can cause heart valve damage.

If I remember correctly, carbidopa works by keeping 5-HTP inactive peripherally, and only allows it to metabolize to serotonin (5-HT) once it's past the blood-brain barrier (I assume this is because carbidopa is not able to cross the BBB itself, but that's just an educated guess). Anybody taking 5-HTP long-term should really be taking carbidopa in order to prevent this heart valve damage. In fact, in Europe, the combination of 5-HTP and carbidopa is widely available as a single-pill antidepressant.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> Absolutely not. Despite what some anecdotal reports may say, 5-HTP becomes more effective when taken chronically as the brain adapts to the increase in serotonin and antidepressant effects become apparent. Taking 5-HTP PRN will only result in negatives.


Do you have a source that when 5HTP is taken chronically results in increased serotonine, as this was posted by one of the MOST reputable members of mind and muscle:


> No, it's worse than that. With chronic dosing, 5-HTP doesn't even regulate or increase 5-HT in the brain. A tolerance builds. It only has an effect when used acutely. So really, the article is suggested an ineffective treatment in place of an effective one. Genius.


I know this guy doesnt post anything without some serieus back up for that claim, i dont have the source but i will ask him for it. (ex dubio from mind and muscle).


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Well, i asked the guy to back up that claim, so well see what he responds.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

rocknroll714 said:


> +1.


Welcome back!


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

meyaj said:


> Welcome back!


/sign


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

Can you take 5 htp with L dopa? Or do you want to take it with a precursor like L Tyrosine?

I haven't heard much about carbidopa, but ill look into it. I understand that 5 htp has to be taken with a dopamine precursor because you want a balance between serotonin and dopamine.

When you raise serotonin (on a longer timeline) dopamine levels drop.

I actually think this might be the reason for the pheltra of sexual side effects relating to SSri's. It's probably dopamine deficiency.

I wonder if people could supplement SSri + L Tyrosine.

Cheers,



rocknroll714 said:


> Yes. This is a must.
> 
> I would seriously not recommend taking 5-HTP without carbidopa AND a dopamine precursor due to the following:
> 
> ...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

There was a thread here about LDOPA+5HTP+Cardidopa, the combo did nothing for me tough.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

5HTP dont you think if it was that great ,you would ever need a shrink again, Just walk in your health shop an load up. 5htp is so weak its like a headache med. Its ok for when inbetween meds as a stop gap when whashing out, as when finished on your old med an your waiting to start a new one.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

foxy said:


> 5HTP dont you think if it was that great ,you would ever need a shrink again, Just walk in your health shop an load up. 5htp is so weak its like a headache med. Its ok for when inbetween meds as a stop gap when whashing out, as when finished on your old med an your waiting to start a new one.


5 htp and L tyrosine are naturally occuring amino acids. The pharmaceutical companies can't make money on an amino acid.

I personally think 5 htp is grrrrreat!! I totally forgot about it, but I used it a few years ago and it totally destroyed my depression. I have recently started it again, and within two days, I am feelin' a lot more "chipper" for lack of a better word 

And I have tried Wellbutrin AND a tricyclic already, so its not like I haven't tried meds.

I'm gonna give 5 htp a proper chance. I like how it's more natural, and unlike an SSri, it doesn't prevent reuptake of seratonin, it replenishes seratonin.

The science is sound, and makes total sense- it's like filling up your gas tank if its half empty.

Cheers


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

Hey man,

Thanks for the indepth reply.

I have both 5 htp and L dopa. I have been using the 5 htp, and i'm gonna add in the L dopa next week.

I am curious about LOW DOSE SSri use. Because I think that would prevent sides, especially sexual dsyfunction. I think the lower the dose, the less dopamine is depleted, and the more "intact" the libido stays.

I think the "finishing" issues are seratonin related, but libido is dopamine related. What do you think?

As for not taking drugs, technically these aren't drugs- they are naturally occuring amino acids. You can get 5 htp from eating a lot of turkey, or you can get it from a pill. The body can't really differentiate.

Cheers,



rocknroll714 said:


> L-DOPA _is_ a dopamine precursor. The metabolic pathway goes like this: L-phenylalanine -> L-tyrosine -> L-DOPA -> dopamine -> norepinephrine -> epinephrine. L-DOPA is by far the best dopamine precursor because it only requires one reaction to turn into dopamine. The others are far less potent in comparison. I highly recommend taking L-DOPA and not L-phenylalanine/L-tyrosine with 5-HTP. From my experience, L-tryptophan, L-phenylalanine, and L-tyrosine all suck, whereas L-DOPA and 5-HTP are good.
> 
> As for the thing about serotonin making dopamine levels drop, this only applies to 5-HTP and not SSRIs or other related drugs. 5-HTP only makes dopamine levels drop because it occupies the rate-limiting aromatic L-amino acid decarboxyase (AAAD) and thereby knocks L-DOPA off the enzyme, preventing it from becoming dopamine. SSRIs do not interact with AAAD and therefore do not cause this effect.
> 
> ...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Excellent post rocknroll.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

If SSri's lower dopamine (however they do it) they probably lower testosterone levels as well. Because dopamine and testosterone are closely connected. 

I don't know the mechanism that SSri's lower dopamine, but lets say they raise prolactin which lowers dopamine. That will also lower testosterone. 

OTOH, L Dopa will lower prolactin, raise dopamine, and raise testosterone. 

I'm too paranoid to take an SSri because of these types of interactions. The libido loss could be dopamine AND testosterone related. 


Cheers,


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=42316&st=0&gopid=613671&#entry613671

He took back what he said, so looks like rocknroll is correct here.


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## Timboslice (Jul 28, 2010)

So, I get that carbidopa prevents 5htp from being metabolized in the peripheral regions, which is excellent. But if not in the UK, how does one go about asking their doctor for this without having parkinson's? It seems like an excellent (and cheap) variant of the SSRI meds, and for someone without health insurance, this could be a step in the right direction.

I just don't want to take it whenever there is risk of heart issues for taking something I can get for 15 dollars at Amazon.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

rocknroll714 said:


> And yes, technically they are actually drugs..


No. Technically they are naturally occurring AMINO ACIDS. 

Cheers,


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

rocknroll714 said:


> In any case though, you appear to be correct, SSRIs lower testosterone levels (source).


Yeah my endocrinologist told me that SSri's MAY have a negative feedback on hormones, including testosterone.

Cheers,


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

:clap

If you want to play with semantics, ok it's a "drug"

But if you compare it to a pharmaceutical drug, it is much milder because it is NATURALLY OCCURRING in the body.

If you eat a copious amount of turkey or bananas, and you have sufficient vitamin b6, it will convert to 5 htp. So instead of eating the turkey, you are taking the 5 htp directly.

But you win champ :b its a "drug"

Cheers,



rocknroll714 said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, but...
> 
> Wikipedia:
> 
> ...


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Even vitamins are drugs in a sense, though we never think of them that way. They operate in an identical fashion. The only difference is that they are also essential nutrients, but their activity in the body is often identical to that of a drug.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

No worries man. I appreciate your insights and knowledge 

Cheers,



rocknroll714 said:


> I just don't like being contradicted.
> 
> Sorry if I seem ***hole-ish, blame the meds.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*5htp*

Lets face it, anyone with acute anxierty an clinical depression is going to get F*** all out of 5 htp. you carnt mix it with real meds. If you have a slight depression or you are a hypochondraic its just the med for you. IT dont have a place in real meds, its a stop gap, go in the health shop an see who buy,s it.People with a slight prob an are **** scared of real med,s. Anybody been to a shrink an he say,s take 5htp it would be because your not that ill an he wants you out the door. NEXT REAL NUT PLEASE


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

foxy said:


> Lets face it, anyone with acute anxierty an clinical depression is going to get F*** all out of 5 htp. you carnt mix it with real meds. If you have a slight depression or you are a hypochondraic its just the med for you. IT dont have a place in real meds, its a stop gap, go in the health shop an see who buy,s it.People with a slight prob an are **** scared of real med,s. Anybody been to a shrink an he say,s take 5htp it would be because your not that ill an he wants you out the door. NEXT REAL NUT PLEASE


Anger issues? :b

I can promise you I have "real" clinical depression. I have tried two anti depressants. I may try a third.

But do you understand the science behind 5 htp? Or are you just bashing it because its an over the counter product?

5 htp RAISES your seratonin. It is a precursor to seratonin. It puts more seratonin in your brain. This isn't debatable. The only time this wouldn't happen would be if you had insufficient vitamin b6 to convert the 5htp into sertatonin, and all you need is a good b complex to fix that.

If your seratonin gets RAISED, you feel happy.

As for SSri's, they RECYCLE the seratonin you currently have. They don't RAISE your seratonin levels.

So one could argue that they are WORSE than 5 htp in how they function.

Now maybe you have a dopamine deficiency or a norepherine deficiency. In that case, 5 htp won't work for you.

And even if you use 5 htp, you have to use Tyrosine along with it, to make sure your seratonin and dopamine levels remain balanced.

As for 5 htp VERSUS meds. I don't really know.

Some meds may work better, some (as i've experienced with Wellbutrin) work worse.

The side effects have to be considered too. 5 htp has virtually no sides.

Cheers,


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Actually, that's a very elementary understanding of "the science." Which by "the science" you mean "the conjecture" - at least as far as the degree to which you think it works. Because "science" is wholly based on empirical observation and study, and that science has shown us that 5HTP is virtually worthless for such purposes. Among other problems, not much 5HTP at all survives the digestive tract and the rest of the path on towards the BBB, its presence in the brain (and the right areas of the brain, at that) ends up being quite small. As for "no" side effects, I've consistently had intense nausea off just 100mg that seriously disagrees with such an outlandish assessment.

If you want something that RELIABLY raises serotonin levels (ESPECIALLY if you want to balance dopamine) in any remotely effective manner, that's what MAOIs are for.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*eric 69*

Meyaj, just about nail,s it with his answer. I take sertraline 100mg for serotonin real boost , that an lexapro are the top 2 ssris acording to a survey, side effects yes, but do you know when a med is working????? side effects?// if you get none then the med is proabily weak. Maoi,s for me are to hardcore with side effect on the organ faliure radar. But if nothing else work,s you play with the big boys


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## Bigbird (Feb 25, 2010)

meyaj said:


> Actually, that's a very elementary understanding of "the science." Which by "the science" you mean "the conjecture" - at least as far as the degree to which you think it works. Because "science" is wholly based on empirical observation and study, and that science has shown us that 5HTP is virtually worthless for such purposes. Among other problems, not much 5HTP at all survives the digestive tract and the rest of the path on towards the BBB, its presence in the brain (and the right areas of the brain, at that) ends up being quite small. As for "no" side effects, I've consistently had intense nausea off just 100mg that seriously disagrees with such an outlandish assessment.
> 
> If you want something that RELIABLY raises serotonin levels (ESPECIALLY if you want to balance dopamine) in any remotely effective manner, that's what MAOIs are for.


MAOI's might be the more effective solution for many but as far as comparing 5-htp to SSRI's, personally I think they both suck for treating SA and depression period.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*could be*



Bigbird said:


> MAOI's might be the more effective solution for many but as far as comparing 5-htp to SSRI's, personally I think they both suck for treating SA and depression period.


 Sure sertraline is for depression first, with a anxierty agent in it. i still have to take 4 mg of ativan a day with it . To cover anxierty better you need 150mg at least. but the side effects on my pork sword are to great at that level , 100mg im cool on the sex side. Jesus man i used to be on 10mg a day ativan


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

LOL

I'll take a bit of nausea over the dozen MAO side effects. I take the 5 htp before bed, and it knocks me out within half hour.

I'm not saying its more powerful than MAO's (obviously). MAOI's are very powerful drugs. They destroy the MAO so the seratonin doesn't get eaten up by the MAO enzyme and there's more seratonin in the synapse. And same with dopamine and norepherine.

Obviously a MAOI will be a billion times "better" than just 5 htp for depression.

But MAOI's have their own slew of side effects. I am personally a gym rat, and I love the gym. I don't want to worry about elevated blood pressure, or feeling too fatigued to workout, or weight gain (Nardil) or insomnia (Parnate)

As for 5 htp, yeah. The science isn't totally understood. But the science for anti depressants isn't even totally understood!!!! They still don't know why an SSri works by preventing reputake on the presynaptic nerve, and yet something like Remeron works, by blocking receptor sites on the post synaptic nerve. Those are two OPPOSITE mechanisms, yet both anti depressants seem to work. Whhaaaaat? Why?

There is even a theory that SSri's work after 2-3 weeks because the increased seratonin in the synapse actually causes a DOWN REGULATION on the post synaptic nerve (meaning there are less receptor sites for seratonin to bind to) which is totally counter intuitive!?!??!!

All I know, is that 5 htp > Seratonin > Seratonin in the Synapse > chance of binding to receptor sites > chance of feeling good!! 

Cheers,



meyaj said:


> Actually, that's a very elementary understanding of "the science." Which by "the science" you mean "the conjecture" - at least as far as the degree to which you think it works. Because "science" is wholly based on empirical observation and study, and that science has shown us that 5HTP is virtually worthless for such purposes. Among other problems, not much 5HTP at all survives the digestive tract and the rest of the path on towards the BBB, its presence in the brain (and the right areas of the brain, at that) ends up being quite small. As for "no" side effects, I've consistently had intense nausea off just 100mg that seriously disagrees with such an outlandish assessment.
> 
> If you want something that RELIABLY raises serotonin levels (ESPECIALLY if you want to balance dopamine) in any remotely effective manner, that's what MAOIs are for.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

foxy said:


> Meyaj, just about nail,s it with his answer. I take sertraline 100mg for serotonin real boost , that an lexapro are the top 2 ssris acording to a survey, side effects yes, but do you know when a med is working????? side effects?// if you get none then the med is proabily weak. Maoi,s for me are to hardcore with side effect on the organ faliure radar. But if nothing else work,s you play with the big boys


Yup

Some people have different issues.

Even doctors don't really know how anti depressants work in the brain, and why people are depressed sometimes.

It's trial and error to find out what works for you, with the best results + least sides.

Cheers


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I don't get any side effects on Parnate so I'm not sure what you mean by "a dozen MAOI side effects". There are restrictions on food and drugs, yes, but it's more easily handled than any other antidepressant I'm ever been on, and even the relatively high dose is more easily tolerated for me than even a moderate dose of 5htp.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

meyaj said:


> I don't get any side effects on Parnate
> and even the relatively high dose is more easily tolerated for me than even a moderate dose of 5htp.


Perhaps you are an anomaly.

Cheers,


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

As i think i may have said, side effects in england on meds are not treated and we just get on with it .Thankfull for any relief from ad or dd, you get one med an one only. They do not believe or supply suppliments, there theory is a med for side effects is another med with more side effects . In a way true ,say 4 med combo ,4 side effects ,an on an on you go till you body is one big side effect. We dont have wellbutrin it is banned over seizure scare, so yes if we are on an ssri or any anit depressant we get the ****ing lot, weight gain. erectile dysfunction, ****,s or constipation.vomiting, jiont pain ECT ECT. Do you think we would put up with all that if 5htp worked good enough on real depression. There is 5 bottles of 50mg 5htp in my med cabinet for use between meds.by real depression i mean bad?????? i am not aloud to fetch my own script for fear i may overdose like i have before . my wife is my carer an the meds are locked in a safe.now i dont want to kill myself ,but my brain sometimes does. 5htp is a *****CAT


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

My depression was bad. I tried to off myself earlier this year.

5 htp isn't a miracle cure, but it's helped me so far, with no sides.

Benefits i've noticed so far,

Less racing thoughts 
More calm and mellow feeling 
Much less irritable and less sensitive to things

The fact that i don't have racing thoughts anymore, is a huge benefit. My biggest problem, is that i'd dwell on sh*t, and dwell on it and dwell on it and dwell on it.

After starting 5 htp, I don't seem to dwell on stuff as much.

I like it 

Cheers,



foxy said:


> As i think i may have said, side effects in england on meds are not treated and we just get on with it .Thankfull for any relief from ad or dd, you get one med an one only. They do not believe or supply suppliments, there theory is a med for side effects is another med with more side effects . In a way true ,say 4 med combo ,4 side effects ,an on an on you go till you body is one big side effect. We dont have wellbutrin it is banned over seizure scare, so yes if we are on an ssri or any anit depressant we get the ****ing lot, weight gain. erectile dysfunction, ****,s or constipation.vomiting, jiont pain ECT ECT. Do you think we would put up with all that if 5htp worked good enough on real depression. There is 5 bottles of 50mg 5htp in my med cabinet for use between meds.by real depression i mean bad?????? i am not aloud to fetch my own script for fear i may overdose like i have before . my wife is my carer an the meds are locked in a safe.now i dont want to kill myself ,but my brain sometimes does. 5htp is a *****CAT


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

whatever works for you is cool by me. i have been scanning the wed sites an med info, an yes it has some positive feedback. the negative is ,hear is a piece from a lab tests an alert///////////////
Q. Is low sex drive or low libido or impotence a 5 HTP side effect?
A. Yes. Since 5 HTP converts into serotonin, it can dampen sexuality or sexual interest. Once you are no longer using a 5-HTP supplement, and you wish to increase your libido, consider a potent sexual enhancer called Passion Rx.n . it also should not be taken with benzo,s .///////never take with an ssri,unless you have a death wish


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah, i'm taking "horny goat weed" to help with libido.

I think anything that boosts seratonin will lower libido a bit. It's all good tho

Cheers,



foxy said:


> whatever works for you is cool by me. i have been scanning the wed sites an med info, an yes it has some positive feedback. the negative is ,hear is a piece from a lab tests an alert///////////////
> Q. Is low sex drive or low libido or impotence a 5 HTP side effect?
> A. Yes. Since 5 HTP converts into serotonin, it can dampen sexuality or sexual interest. Once you are no longer using a 5-HTP supplement, and you wish to increase your libido, consider a potent sexual enhancer called Passion Rx.n . it also should not be taken with benzo,s .///////never take with an ssri,unless you have a death wish


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*Anxierty*

Im starting to wonder how bad you people suffer anxierty. ok benzos are a no go with 5htp.Any one with a high level of anxierty will need a benzo at some time.So none of you on 5htp are on a strong benzo at any time. like xanax or ativan.5htp may have some small properties for depression.but its the anxierty that causes the depression %99of the time. Now me i am a regular at outpatients useually in the early hours , say about 10 times a year when anxierty frighten,s my family as i turn a grey colour like death , i am vertually in the dead zone.The first thing they do is inject 4 mg of ativan to get to my bloodstream as fast as it can so no tablets.stay the night on oxegen then back home.Now this forum is an anxierty forum, so say i was took to hospital an they say your on 5htp sorry no ativan injection is a bit of a bummer.I take 4mg of ativan aday itook me 20 years to get stable on 4.i have been up to 14 mg a day an not effected.I also flat lined after 14 ativan an a litre of brandy to stop anxierty attack. If you guys don need a benzo now an then ,you have low grade anxierty an 5htp is cool for you.i would love to be in your shoes , an not have to go in the metal ward now an then. As i say i never in hospital heard a shrink say get these 5htp down your neck, an i will never see you in this hospital again.I still remain upbeat an have a cool life inbetween all this ****.Could you lot do it its a life style i have had all the time. My friends an family dont no how i survive , but hey lifes a *****


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree that 5htp is not useful for anything but the mildest of problems, but the rest of your post is absolutely presumptuous and more than a tad judgmental, foxy. To say that the need for/use of benzos is somehow THE metric for gauging the severity of anxiety is just flat out wrong. Some people don't want to use benzos, some people can't get benzos, some people have what's called a "paradoxical reaction" and actually experience INCREASED anxiety with benzos, some people have a better ability to tolerate/cope with anxiety than others, and some people find success in controlling their anxiety with other drugs (and in some cases, even non-drug solutions.) 

In my case, for instance, once I started Parnate (an MAOI), my need to use benzos virtually disappeared. Without medication though, I am a mess. Even with a prescription for benzos to take whenever I needed it, just last year I had multiple doctors recommending electroconvulsive (aka "electroshock") therapy to treat what has been called and documented as "very severe" anxiety, and it is bad enough that the government considers me disabled and gives me benefits and $1,000 every month, and that my therapist has even said that despite it being the standard practice for the government to reject pretty much all Disability applicants and weed them out by forcing them to go through the appeals process, that I am her only client that has ever had them SO convinced that they automatically approved me right away. Bad enough that I am the only patient at both my outpatient mental health clinic (at the local hospital) AND my pharmacy to be prescribed an MAOI. But now that I have it under control with a different drug, I have pretty much no need to take benzos.

And the idea that you cannot mix 5-HTP with benzos is false. It's cautioned against because it has the interaction of "increased drowsiness", simply because both can make you drowsy. Maybe it's not a good idea to drive on the combo, but it certainly isn't dangerous, and there are millions of people who take both 5-HTP and benzos every single day. Any doctor refusing to give you a benzo because you are on 5-HTP is just using an excuse that happens to be available to them, but any doctor that is even remotely reasonable and knowledgeable will NOT refuse to give a patient benzos if they feel they really need it, simply because they're on 5-HTP.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, anyways. It's simply a precursor to serotonin. If that were true, you'd never be able to mix benzos with ANY antidepressants which is a totally ridiculous notion.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*hey.*

Unlike america we cannot get whatever is on offer. The biggest herb shop chain in england is holland an barretT. I was refused 5htp years ago for being on ativan, an thats just a health shop. They have a policy of asking what meds your on before you can buy. If they think its a wrong the only way you get them is with a docs letter. Its cool that you found a maoi that cover,s all you anxierty an very lucky indeed my friend. I dont know why your getting wound up , you have been put on a maoi so obviously your ill. most posters are on 5htp only.thats why i qestioned the level of illness in some poster,s.You dont score points with being on benifits for you illness, if you do i beat you hands down as i have a carer. my wife is payed by the goverment to look after a nut job like me. She had to leave a good job an has to have 6 pair of eye,s to watch me. i am not aloud anywhere near a med packet ,they are locked away an only prescibed in weekly dose,s , So if i got access to 5htp with my benzo,s it would count as dangerouse dont you think.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

foxy said:


> So if i got access to 5htp with my benzo,s it would count as dangerouse dont you think.


Only if you went overboard. Like I said, the combo is harmless and I'm not sure why you think doctors will refuse to give benzos to people on 5-HTP. At best, it seems like you might have dealt with a rookie doctor who looked up contraindications without looking at WHAT the actual interaction was - many times it's just harmless but included in an overzealous attempt to be thorough.

Heck, as an MAOI user I know a bit about contraindications, and if you actually went and looked at it, every single other drug I'm on (that's 4 other drugs) is supposedly NOT to be taken with MAOIs. And yet I can assure you I am side-effect free, much more so than I was on even a simple SSRI, which is pretty amazing. Thankfully, my doctors seem to know the difference between a useless contraindication, a cautious indication, and an ABSOLUTE contraindication (the kinds of drugs you should NEVER mix.) The last group makes up a surprisingly tiny percentage overall.

And no, it wasn't meant to be a competition, nor am I interested in one :lol I was simply trying to demonstrate that I am definitely not just a "mild" case. And I do agree with on one major thing - anybody using 5HTP and deriving actual benefit from it is practically only even borderline clinical.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

meyaj said:


> And I do agree with on one major thing - anybody using 5HTP and deriving actual benefit from it is practically only even borderline clinical.


Not sure what that really means.

So you are more depressed than me? And foxy is more depressed than you? Lets play the game "how many times have you tried to kill yourself" and then we can really see who is the most clinically depressed!!!! :boogie

Seriously though. 5 htp has helped me. I am not JOYOUS or anything, but my mood has mellowed out, and I have less "bad thoughts" if that makes sense. This morning I still had a few yucky thoughts, but I seem to dwell on them less. It has had a real benefit for me.

It could benefit some people, and it might not benefit some people.

It's not some magical cure that is > than a MAOI but it does have some positive definite NON PLACEBO effects. I feel them, and I know the difference it has made.

Cheers,


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Eric69 said:


> Not sure what that really means.
> 
> So you are more depressed than me? And foxy is more depressed than you? Lets play the game "how many times have you tried to kill yourself" and then we can really see who is the most clinically depressed!!!! :boogie


Nope, foxy was the one who tried to make it seem like a competition based on one aspect of what I said (ignoring the ECT stuff and a whole host of things.) But like I said, it's not a freaking competition and suggesting that one of us is worse than the other is laughable and neither capable of being accurate nor useful. Trying to rank people based on severity as if it's a good thing or gives you some sort of e-cred is just beyond stupid (as is anybody who participates in such BS).

Congrats, you tried to kill yourself the most (I don't know whether this is actually true but it's totally pointless so I'm awarding you the prize anyways. This is the worst example of a phallus-sizing competition I've ever seen. It's meaningless... the frequency of suicide attempts alone is subject to a ridiculous amount of factors, not just clinical severity. And since males tend to have quite a high rate of success, the fact that you've supposedly "attempted" it numerous times suggests they weren't even serious attempts in the first place, whether you realized it or not. Now I feel kind of wrong for minimizing such a serious matter, but you've literally attempted to turn it into a game in order to prove a point (which it doesn't, by the way.)

Anyways, you can rationalize it all you want but the science is pretty clear that 5-HTP is almost completely useless for even mild-moderate cases, and certainly less useful than plain old exercise, the benefits of which are almost always HUGELY overstated.

By the way, the whole point of the placebo effect is that patients can generally not distinguish it from genuine effects, so your insistence that it's "NON PLACEBO" means absolutely nothing. If it were at all possible, studies wouldn't even need to bother including a control/placebo group because the patients could just separate the real, drug-induced effects from any placebo effects, which is an absolutely ridiculous notion.

*I've been requested to make this edit by a mod, because apparently the diminutive form of the first name Richard is just too crude and constitutes _inappropriate language_.


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

Dude, i was being sarcastic with the "how many times" game. I was trying to say that clinical depression shouldn't be compared or trivialized based on whether 5 htp works for one person, and doesn't work for another.

I don't want your validation and i dont want the prize.

And as for placebo effect, i used to have "racing thoughts" I would dwell on things and dwell on them and dwell on them. After starting 5 htp, I can't dwell on stuff even if I want to. I've tried even. I'll start thinking negatively ON PURPOSE, and its like my mind can't do it. Which isn't a placebo because i've had the racing thoughts for months.

Irritability and emotional sensitivity is also way down.

The science isn't "quite clear" at all. If you goto revolution health, there are tons of people who have been on SSRi's and other anti depressants and they like 5 htp. OTOH, some people think it sucks and doesn't work for them.

I personally thought Wellbutrin sucked and it just made me angry and anxious. While some people think Wellbutrin is awesome and they love it.

So different people react to different meds.... differently.

Cheers,



meyaj said:


> Nope, foxy was the one who tried to make it seem like a competition based on one aspect of what I said (ignoring the ECT stuff and a whole host of things.) But like I said, it's not a freaking competition and suggesting that one of us is worse than the other is laughable and neither capable of being accurate nor useful. Trying to rank people based on severity as if it's a good thing or gives you some sort of e-cred is just beyond stupid (as is anybody who participates in such BS).
> 
> Congrats, you tried to kill yourself the most (I don't know whether this is actually true but it's totally pointless so I'm awarding you the prize anyways. This is the worst example of a sizing competition I've ever seen. And again, it's meaningless... the frequency of suicide attempts alone is subject to a ridiculous amount of factors, not just clinical severity. And since males tend to have quite a high rate of success, the fact that you've supposedly "attempted" it numerous times suggests they weren't even serious attempts in the first place, whether you realized it or not. Now I feel kind of jerkish for minimizing such a serious matter, but you've literally attempted to turn it into a game in order to prove a point (which it doesn't, by the way.)
> 
> ...


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

foxy said:


> Unlike america we cannot get whatever is on offer. The biggest herb shop chain in england is holland an barretT. I was refused 5htp years ago for being on ativan, an thats just a health shop. They have a policy of asking what meds your on before you can buy. If they think its a wrong the only way you get them is with a docs letter. Its cool that you found a maoi that cover,s all you anxierty an very lucky indeed my friend. I dont know why your getting wound up , you have been put on a maoi so obviously your ill. most posters are on 5htp only.thats why i qestioned the level of illness in some poster,s.You dont score points with being on benifits for you illness, if you do i beat you hands down as i have a carer. my wife is payed by the goverment to look after a nut job like me. She had to leave a good job an has to have 6 pair of eye,s to watch me. i am not aloud anywhere near a med packet ,they are locked away an only prescibed in weekly dose,s , So if i got access to 5htp with my benzo,s it would count as dangerouse dont you think.


What about just lying and not saying your on a benzo when buying the 5HTP, or just order it online, there's no problem getting it man.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

*dilutioned*

First crazy med, i could tell a lie an purchase the 5htp. But i have blood tests every 2 weeks so i think not. Anyway i have 5 50mg bottles i bought in the sale 5 years ago ,that say,s a lot for it dont it. I keep them for if i come of a med an use when wash out finished an waiting for new med,which i havent done in a long time as now i stick to ssri,s an tapper when pooped./////////////////// Now meyas ,i never known sombody be so **** headed with someone who agree,s with them. Your the one who started the on benifit crap because my doc says im to ill. So dont put that on me. listen suicide you make it sound like i do it for a hobby. 1suicide attempt an 1 flat line. First the flat line that had nothing to do with suicide i just drank to much one day on meds an my heart stopped when in hospital.NNNNNNNNNNNNow listen to the suicide and i dont think you would have come out this, first it was caused by a third world shrink. This is how it goes so keep up, First he said stopped the litre of brandy from now. Im ok with that,2ND stop dead 10mg of ativan, now that is a death sentence, an last he started me on 225mg effexor yes 225mg fron day one.All are good shrinks are in america on big money we get ****heads. Right my head is expoldeing an i suffer sizures. Took to gp shaking like a rattle snake. put me on 40mg of valium every 6 hours.UUUUseless ,death is better than this believe me. i dont no what im doing i dont right farwell notes like in a novel. i just bang in a box of effexor an take a giant swill of whisky, then pepple dash the wall with puke am meds. blue light hospital pint of charcoal an up on the nut ward. I you want to try a detox of that magnitude an high intake of the worse suicide induceing med out. book a coffin,


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

Been trying 5-htp for a month daily, does nothing at all. 

What dosage do you lot do? Waste of time, personally.


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## Libertine (Jul 13, 2009)

foxy said:


> First crazy med, i could tell a lie an purchase the 5htp. But i have blood tests every 2 weeks so i think not. Anyway i have 5 50mg bottles i bought in the sale 5 years ago ,that say,s a lot for it dont it. I keep them for if i come of a med an use when wash out finished an waiting for new med,which i havent done in a long time as now i stick to ssri,s an tapper when pooped./////////////////// Now meyas ,i never known sombody be so **** headed with someone who agree,s with them. Your the one who started the on benifit crap because my doc says im to ill. So dont put that on me. listen suicide you make it sound like i do it for a hobby. 1suicide attempt an 1 flat line. First the flat line that had nothing to do with suicide i just drank to much one day on meds an my heart stopped when in hospital.NNNNNNNNNNNNow listen to the suicide and i dont think you would have come out this, first it was caused by a third world shrink. This is how it goes so keep up, First he said stopped the litre of brandy from now. Im ok with that,2ND stop dead 10mg of ativan, now that is a death sentence, an last he started me on 225mg effexor yes 225mg fron day one.All are good shrinks are in america on big money we get ****heads. Right my head is expoldeing an i suffer sizures. Took to gp shaking like a rattle snake. put me on 40mg of valium every 6 hours.UUUUseless ,death is better than this believe me. i dont no what im doing i dont right farwell notes like in a novel. i just bang in a box of effexor an take a giant swill of whisky, then pepple dash the wall with puke am meds. blue light hospital pint of charcoal an up on the nut ward. I you want to try a detox of that magnitude an high intake of the worse suicide induceing med out. book a coffin,


You are prescribed 160mg valium per day? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I'm pretty sure that's way past what can be prescribed outwith institutionalised patients.

OH and by the way, I think you need to be sectioned.


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Libertine said:


> You are prescribed 160mg valium per day? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I'm pretty sure that's way past what can be prescribed outwith institutionalised patients.
> 
> OH and by the way, I think you need to be sectioned.


 hundreds of people are on massive doses of valium, , plus a cocktail of other meds. Are you real. 160mg of valium is ony 16mg of ativan. an i was takeing that a day between 10 an 16 for month,s. i only took that to combat massive withdrawl you plank,my gp had rung the hospital an they wanted to give me 60 mg for the first dose.you havent got a clue i was a hardcore ativan addict ,take them away like the **** shrink an you die, without a massive intake of the weekest benzo.In the end they gave me back 4mg of ativan or i would be dead, by my own hand or there ballsup.Take you foot out your mouth next time you open it. I spent months in my room detoxing 6to 10mg of ativan an 225mg of effexor banging my head against the wall.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

foxy said:


> First crazy med, i could tell a lie an purchase the 5htp. But i have blood tests every 2 weeks so i think not. Anyway i have 5 50mg bottles i bought in the sale 5 years ago ,that say,s a lot for it dont it. I keep them for if i come of a med an use when wash out finished an waiting for new med,which i havent done in a long time as now i stick to ssri,s an tapper when pooped./////////////////// Now meyas ,i never known sombody be so **** headed with someone who agree,s with them. Your the one who started the on benifit crap because my doc says im to ill. So dont put that on me. listen suicide you make it sound like i do it for a hobby.


Relax, the whole suicide thing wasn't directed at you whatsoever. You misinterpreted what I said I guess. I don't know if you're just so desperate for an argument that you will find one where it doesn't exist, but even though such a thing is all too common on this board, I'm just going to assume it was an innocent mistake.

Even where I mentioned your name it wasn't directed to you, but was rather only somewhat about you, and not in a way that I meant to attack you. I was simply responding to when Eric said, "So you are more depressed than me? And foxy is more depressed than you?" Because I never compared my own depression to anyone else, yet he was implying that I was trying to establish some sort of rank, which is ridiculous. I simply said my condition is severe (in order to show that I have first-hand experience of having severe anxiety without such an ABSOLUTE need for benzos) and I backed up the severity with some objective facts. You decided to turn it into a bit of a competition by saying "if you do i beat you hands down", not that it matters, because it's silly, it's a losing game, it's impossible to prove even with dozens of metrics let alone just one, and I could just as easily say that the simple fact you even have a wife means you're doing a hell of a lot better than me, heh. I've never been on a simple date (though I'm experiencing a lot of improvement in 2010 due to the MAOI so I really think that will change soon), and my "carer" would be my parents who I utterly depend on. Does it make me worse than you? Maybe, and maybe not, but our situations are different enough that comparisons are pointless, and even if we could compare, there'd be nothing to gain from a "who's more pathetic" contest anyways, and I hope we can agree on that.

Again, the ONLY thing I was doing by trying to establish my own severity was to establish some credibility with respect to benzo use so it didn't seem like my opinion on REQUIRING benzos was coming from somebody with something like mild, subclinical anxiety. I wasn't trying to make myself seem worse than anyone else, and didn't even really care when you attempted to do just that. What I cared about was when Eric started off his post implying that I was trying to make this some sort of mental health e-peen contest, when the only person who had was you, by saying that you had me beat - which in and of itself I didn't care about at all, only Eric's assertion that I was somehow participating in it.

At this point I feel like I'm going in a terribly roundabout manner, but the point is, I agree with you that 5-HTP is almost entirely useless, and had no serious problem or disagreement with you up until the point you decided to ****-talk and call me names simply because you had read posts as if they were standalone pieces, rather within the context of all the posts within the thread that come before them, which is why I basically had to explain things in terms of so many posts... to try and make that context clearer. I don't know if I was successful or not in doing so, so all I'll leave you with is that I for the most part agree with what you have to say regarding the topic of this thread, think you're terribly mistaken that I'm trying to argue over basically nothing with you, and that I really have no desire to get into some silly online fight, especially when the person I disagree with on this thread isn't you, but is actually the same person YOU disagree with heh


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

These back and forth's a bit ridiculous, no? 

I think we all have the same objective here. TO FEEL GOOD. 

I am still taking 5 htp, 200mg before bedtime. The jury is still out, but I like it, and i'm gonna stick to it. I am also taking L dopa in the morning. 

PS I had sex this morning  great anti depressant


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

Eric69 said:


> These back and forth's a bit ridiculous, no?
> 
> I think we all have the same objective here. TO FEEL GOOD.
> 
> ...


 with your hand dont count?????????????? HE HE


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## foxy (Jul 3, 2010)

MEYAS ////////// a piece from one of your posts
//////////Congrats, you tried to kill yourself the most (I don't know whether this is actually true but it's totally pointless so I'm awarding you the prize anyways. This is the worst example of a phallus-sizing competition I've ever seen. It's meaningless... the frequency of suicide attempts alone is subject to a ridiculous amount of factors, not just clinical severity. And since males tend to have quite a high rate of success, the fact that you've supposedly "attempted" it numerous times suggests they weren't even serious attempts in the first place, whether you realized it or not///////// Now that was below the belt as insulting. l defended you on the thread saying you were ill, if the doc has put you on a MAIO, an some on 5htp my not be so mentally ill. But for some reason instead of leaveing it at that you come back as if i said your not ill, did you read the post.You started going on about you doc said this your doc said that.Your ill buddy , i have had a lifetime of this.Have a go at eric he seem,s to be he one who got your back up.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Cool down guys.  If 5-htp or whatever supplement works for someone, great! If others have success with MAOIs and few if any side effects, great too!


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

foxy said:


> MEYAS ////////// a piece from one of your posts
> //////////Congrats, you tried to kill yourself the most (I don't know whether this is actually true but it's totally pointless so I'm awarding you the prize anyways. This is the worst example of a phallus-sizing competition I've ever seen. It's meaningless... the frequency of suicide attempts alone is subject to a ridiculous amount of factors, not just clinical severity. And since males tend to have quite a high rate of success, the fact that you've supposedly "attempted" it numerous times suggests they weren't even serious attempts in the first place, whether you realized it or not///////// Now that was below the belt as insulting. l defended you on the thread saying you were ill, if the doc has put you on a MAIO, an some on 5htp my not be so mentally ill. But for some reason instead of leaveing it at that you come back as if i said your not ill, did you read the post.You started going on about you doc said this your doc said that.Your ill buddy , i have had a lifetime of this.Have a go at eric he seem,s to be he one who got your back up.


foxy, that WAS directed at eric, buddy, not you. i already tried to explain that lol. because at the time that i wrote this i didn't even know you had ever attempted it, i'm sorry that you keep misunderstanding it, but i wasn't saying it to you.

I'm really not trying to fight with you lol... I promise


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## El Duderino (Aug 19, 2010)

foxy said:


> with your hand dont count?????????????? HE HE


lol


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

meyaj said:


> foxy, that WAS directed at eric, buddy, not you. i already tried to explain that lol. because at the time that i wrote this i didn't even know you had ever attempted it, i'm sorry that you keep misunderstanding it, but i wasn't saying it to you.
> 
> I'm really not trying to fight with you lol... I promise


:clap

it was still a low blow and judging from your posts i can obviously tell you have some issues. ill let you be man.

Cheers,


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Eric69 said:


> :clap
> 
> it was still a low blow and judging from your posts i can obviously tell you have some issues. ill let you be man.
> 
> Cheers,


I'm on a social anxiety board, of course I have issues. But it says loads about your character that is how you respond in such a manner to disagreement (or really, just being wrong)


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## peaceandlove09 (Aug 10, 2010)

meyaj said:


> I'm on a social anxiety board, of course I have issues. But it says loads about your character that is how you respond in such a manner to disagreement (or really, just being wrong)


Your issues go beyond social anxiety. Your mom needs to teach you some social ettiquette.

Cheers,


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

*-Thread lock advisory-*

Let's keep things civil please guys.


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