# Amygdala Removal



## Project Atlas (Jan 23, 2012)

I know this has nothing to do with medication, but I was not sure where to put this. It's really just a medical procedure. 
http://www.yalescientific.org/2011/04/fearless---literally/

It seems like removing the Amygdala, can remove fear. Not just through something like mind over matter, but actually making it physically impossible to feel any kind of anxiety. Has anyone else heard of this? And if any of you have ever had this done please share your experience.

I really want to find out how I can push to have this surgery. Without having to have had any kind of epilepsy. Just for anxiety. Aspergers as well. But the main reason I want this isn't because of my overall mental illness, it's to enjoy a hobby of mine without any inhibition. Does anyone have an idea of what I should say to my psychiatrist to convince them I "need" to have my Amygdala removed? I know people say there are lots of things that can help instead such as medication, therapy, etc. but that just won't give me the results I want.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

The chances of you getting this is slim to none. It's also a bad idea as we evolved to have this sort of inhibition for our own survival. You can get on a drug called propranolol, any doctor will prescribe it. The trick is to take it daily, not just as needed. It's active metabolite has a longer half life than the main drug and builds up in the system. This actually suppresses amygdala activity.

http://brainblogger.com/2009/02/26/erasing-fear-with-propranolol/

I currently take 20mg in the morning and 20mg in the afternoon and it is just awesome.


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## Project Atlas (Jan 23, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> The chances of you getting this is slim to none. It's also a bad idea as we evolved to have this sort of inhibition for our own survival. You can get on a drug called propranolol, any doctor will prescribe it. The trick is to take it daily, not just as needed. It's active metabolite has a longer half life than the main drug and builds up in the system. This actually suppresses amygdala activity.
> 
> http://brainblogger.com/2009/02/26/erasing-fear-with-propranolol/
> 
> ...


Thanks! I actually am on Propranolol but I was told just to take it as needed. I learned about it after finding out about Beta Blockers. It has been really useful in dampening negative emotions asscociated with memories that were stressfull. I take it as soon as I get back home. I'll ask my doctor for a larger dose for everyday use. Thank you again 
As for the Amygdala surgery, I know that some inhibition is good for us to stay safe. I just figured that common sense would be enough and that actual fear didn't have to factor in.


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## Project Atlas (Jan 23, 2012)

jameslp3230 said:


> You won't be able to get your Amygdala removed unless you maybe go to India and pay some neurosurgeons a very healthy bribe.
> 
> In the western world however you could get a limbic leucotomy, it won't remove fear but it will hopefully blunt/decrease negative emotional responses. That's what I'm hoping to get.
> 
> Surgery should make a comeback because I am sick of all these drug cocktails and partially effective/crappy drugs. It has good success rates for even the most refractory patients e.g. people who haven't responded to TCAs, MAOIs, Lithium, all combos, and even ECT.


Good luck then. And thanks for the advice! I will have to use something like propranolol first and then look into the surgery you mentioned as a second resort. Maybe surgery will make a comeback pretty soon. I can't be sure, but based on things I've read it looks like thats what more and more people are looking at


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

Call me old fashioned but lobotomies sound messed up.


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## basuraeuropea (Jul 25, 2012)

hazelblue said:


> Call me old fashioned but lobotomies sound messed up.


who mentioned lobotomies?


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## hazelblue (Jun 6, 2012)

basuraeuropea said:


> who mentioned lobotomies?


Leucotomy... same thing. I don't condone removing _any_ part of the brain for that matter (unless removing tumour).


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## dreamedm (Apr 17, 2013)

You want to lose your very humanity just to remove some fear and social anxiety that is natural to the human condition? Do you think G-d would want you to do this? I don't mean to sound sanctimonious, but even if you're an atheist, you'd be losing your very humanity by doing this, wouldn't you?


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

I think brain surgery should be reserved for people who are so depressed and/or anxious and suicidal that they practically have to be tied up to stop them acting out their suicide. The OP doesn't sound like this, though I could be wrong.


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

If you remove the amygdala you remove your ability to have any emotional response at all. You also would become a psychopath. The amygdala is important.


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## Zack (Apr 20, 2013)

mcmuffinme said:


> If you remove the amygdala you remove your ability to have any emotional response at all. You also would become a psychopath. The amygdala is important.


Precisely. Even brain surgeons themselves don't really know enough about the brain to start messing with it to cure minor neuroses. I think the doctor would laugh (inwardly at least) when the OP asks to have this procedure. Everyone seems to think they are a doctor on this site...


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

I thought about this, not actually doing it on myself but what happens if it's done on someone else. Maybe it wouldn't be a good idea since the brain alerts us when we are in danger by having us experience fear. I watch ghost shows like A Haunting and Paranormal Witness. I always wondered what would happen if the person in the house got that part of the brain removed. It's like he wouldn't feel scared or anything even after seeing things, hearing things, objects moving, etc... The ghost would get frustrated, lol.


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## GotAnxiety (Oct 14, 2011)

I'll preform the operation for free then I'll eat your amygdala like hannibal lecture off silences of the lambs. : D

You'd have the most hardcore treatment ever. A new leap into the future of treating social anxiety!!


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

someday I will undergo psychosurgery and live happily with no meds after that... One can dream...


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

GotAnxiety said:


> I'll preform the operation for free then I'll eat your amygdala like hannibal lecture off silences of the lambs. : D
> 
> You'd have the most hardcore treatment ever. A new leap into the future of treating social anxiety!!


I guess eating the amygdala would cause you extreme anxiety lol


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## Project Atlas (Jan 23, 2012)

I take it from all of your responses that this basically won't work. That's too bad. Even if could work, it won't matter if it's this hard ( basically impossible) to get a procedure like this done as a request. Which I really don't get why. If there was something I could sign to say that the surgeons were not liable for any death/damage I would sign without hesitation. I guess this will have to go on longer until I find something that works. And to answer somebody's question earlier, I have attempted suicide twice already. It was poorly done by swallowing bleach though. Not reliable at all. 
If anyone else here as had any success with medications though let me know.


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## ricca91 (Mar 11, 2012)

Do a "pharmacological amygdalectomy" by taking propranolol. It won't be as effective as removing the amygdalas, but it's also reversible and much more benign.

Propranolol depresses amygdala acivity.


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

dreamedm said:


> You want to lose your very humanity just to remove some fear and social anxiety that is natural to the human condition?


I couldn't ask for more in my life.


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## AsHatter (May 22, 2014)

Project Atlas said:


> I take it from all of your responses that this basically won't work. That's too bad. Even if could work, it won't matter if it's this hard ( basically impossible) to get a procedure like this done as a request. Which I really don't get why. If there was something I could sign to say that the surgeons were not liable for any death/damage I would sign without hesitation. I guess this will have to go on longer until I find something that works. And to answer somebody's question earlier, I have attempted suicide twice already. It was poorly done by swallowing bleach though. Not reliable at all.
> If anyone else here as had any success with medications though let me know.


The reason that they won't do it is that the Amygdala has many functions other than fear processing.

Not only that, fibre tracts connecting other brain areas for various functions run through it and removing the amygdala would destroy those pathways. The brain isn't neatly split up into compartments, it is a neuronal network of interdependent pathways which rely on these connections to function as a whole.

Removal can lead to behavioural changes such as increased aggression and social impairment. In some cases it can cause epilepsy. It can also cause Kluver-Bucy syndrome which has symptoms such as amnesia, dietry changes such as overeating, hyperorality (a desire to explore things by mouth) and hypersexuality (either in the form of heightened sexual activity or a desire to have sex with inappropriate objects).

Amnesia is not simply forgetfulness. It is debilitating and would cripple you more than your anxiety already does. Thankfully the surgeons know far more about how the brain works than you do and hence don't feel inclined to remove it and inflict further issues upon you.

If you would like to read more about it use google scholar which has thousands of scientific papers on the topic.


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## bloogel (Jan 23, 2015)

mcmuffinme said:


> If you remove the amygdala you remove your ability to have any emotional response at all. You also would become a psychopath. The amygdala is important.


Well, read this (pretty sure the people, like the ones who've gotten this because of their epilepsy, aren't psychopaths; that's naive to think): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...pathy-amygdala-remove-epilepsy_n_3920770.html


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## Zalinsky (Jul 18, 2014)

That article totally warned against it, though! Being fearless is more terrifying than being afraid, IMO.


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## SSRIManiac (Jun 14, 2014)

I personally wouldn't do it. But I'm not going to judge people's decisions. I'm going as far as taking Rapamycin to see if it helps my asperger's condition. 
I realize it's not social anxiety that I have. I have fear because I know I don't fit in and people view me as weird and that's the root cause of my anxiety.


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## Spungo (Jul 30, 2012)

mcmuffinme said:


> If you remove the amygdala you remove your ability to have any emotional response at all. You also would become a psychopath. The amygdala is important.


Yep. That guy who famously took a gun to a university in Austin was suffering from a brain tumor. Charles Whitman was his name.

In general, surgery should be the absolute last option. Think of it like taking a soldering iron to the circuits in your computer. You would never do that until you were certain that every other option had been exhausted and there was nothing to lose by attempting it. That's the situation you have when you're dealing with a brain tumor or some serious autoimmune disease. That's definitely not the situation in a regular depressed person.


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## Learydp01 (May 2, 2013)

We don't really have much of an understanding how the brain works, and a lot of what we do know is done through "cheating" if you will... using an MRI to see what area of the brain lights up during certain activities, and assuming the correlation based on what areas light up. You really think the technology exists to know what will happen by removing parts of your brain? This is a terrible idea, of course it isn't an option. Maybe in the distant future stuff like this will be reality, and even then I doubt it would involve the removal of an entire section of your brain, probably a smaller and more localized region.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

I saw this doc a couple of days ago, and it was a women there who had the left side of the brain removed. Some accident or such, but she said like, everyone should remove it, i feel great and all... Always!
She was probably nuts, or not...

But brain surgery, i don't know if im to down or depressed but i would never do it... Now i don't have any kids or people that really depends on me.


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## SSRIManiac (Jun 14, 2014)

I thought we were light years from surgery like this. I've thought out a theoretical analysis of this before removing a small portion or making the amygdala less sensitive so fear is no longer a problem but next thing you know you probably won't be scared of getting ran over by a bus or let's say your house is on fire and your amygdala is dead could be an issue. Maybe it won't necessarily remove all rational thoughts which fear is one of them but nobody knows what implications this will have.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

I was just listening to a story about a woman who had a calcified amygdala, meaning she could feel no fear. And she had been held at knifepoint multiple times and gunpoint once. Point being, there are evolutionary reasons for the structure.


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## painfully shy guy (Mar 22, 2015)

removing amygdala will remove fear is wrong logic...

removing amygdala will remove ability to process all emotions not only fear...

good luck becoming zombie


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## SSRIManiac (Jun 14, 2014)

Maybe someday with advanced technologies and more understanding of the brain, in theory this could be a procedure to consider but right now we have very little understanding about what would happen. I doubt anyone would want to go that far unless their anxiety is so bad they can't sleep, shower, eat, etc.. 

Possibly someday, it could be the cure for anxiety disorders w/o removing the cognition or important parts that play a role in logic, decision making, etc..


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## jaiho (Feb 14, 2015)

im already incapable of feeling emotion/fear/anxiety since i became depressed. Is there anyway to increase amygdala activity? i want to feel more human


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## socialproblems (Mar 28, 2015)

jaiho said:


> im already incapable of feeling emotion/fear/anxiety since i became depressed. Is there anyway to increase amygdala activity? i want to feel more human


Do you really not feel those things. and good things as well, or does the depression impair your ability to notice them?


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## socialproblems (Mar 28, 2015)

I was very close to having surgery. The one where they cut certain pathways in the brain. Then I realized it was too risky and I was doing better on my medication.


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## Supremegentleman (Nov 2, 2014)

So far no one has provided a rational arguement for why this wouldn't work


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## killahwail (Apr 16, 2015)

hazelblue said:


> Leucotomy... same thing. I don't condone removing _any_ part of the brain for that matter (unless removing tumour).


+1 on this. Unless it's absolutely necessary ( I have heard of a few extreme cases where the patient in a hospital setting was self-harming uncontrollably, and strapped for years)

Other than that I don't know. All this info is scaring me a bit. Do these such inhibitors give the overall individual in-tact? I would like to lose some of my anx, but some of it has resulted in unique thoughts and experiences I would have missed out on.

I don't know, every individual is different I guess. This is really interesting stuff.

I send my love and respect to all those in the struggle.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

A removal of the amygdala no, as others have stated the amygdala doesn't _just_ deal with fear, nor is it likely the only structure that deals with fear. Medications that potentially target it (and the other areas of the brain involved in anxiety / depression) would seem to be the way forward. I have no objection to the removal / reduction of the capacity for fear in our species though. This stuff isn't sacred due to us having evolved to have it. Our environment no longer necessitates such levels of fear, by and large, so any means to modify ourselves to reduce this fear would seem to be appropriate.

If anything this highlights the biological causes behind anxiety disorders, which is a good thing. It is endlessly tiring to hear of our problems being written off as 'psychological' as if its some magical thought based conjuration of our own choosing. Rather unsurprisingly, given that our brains are the physical structures responsible for our thoughts etc, mental health problems are going to be the result of problems / variations within that structure. It does no harm for people to realise and accept this.


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## Luli (Aug 12, 2015)

What is a Leucotomy ? Sounds interesting


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## Foh_Teej (May 5, 2004)

Luli said:


> What is a Leucotomy ? Sounds interesting


A procedure where doctors saw on parts of the brain responsible for thread necromancy.


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## Jkid (Nov 2, 2015)

This guy still had feared public speaking even after his amygdala was removed. It seems that this is not the cure..
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...-get-rid-of-amygdala-neurons-in-the-brain.htm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaiho (Feb 14, 2015)

swim said:


> I couldn't ask for more in my life.


Be careful what you wish for.
I'm on this forum for other reasons, but i have zero anxiety or fears. It's like i have no amygdala. 
Anhedonia is much worse than anxiety imo, i used to have anxiety in my younger years, and i'd give anything to feel that again.

To have no emotions / Anhedonia makes it impossible to feel alive, or enjoy anything. It's like you're dead inside and just floating along hoping it gets better.


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## coeur_brise (Oct 7, 2004)

Sure, some sort of brain surgery sounds tempting if it removed the entire spectrum of feeling, but at the same time, there's ways to combat that without undergoing the knife. Maybe try ECT? It does do a number on your brain, but at least it's not invasive and you still have all parts intact. That would be my last resort anyway.


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## rossala (Jan 28, 2016)

Project Atlas said:


> It seems like removing the Amygdala, can remove fear. Not just through something like mind over matter, but actually making it physically impossible to feel any kind of anxiety. Has anyone else heard of this? And if any of you have ever had this done please share your experience.
> 
> I really want to find out how I can push to have this surgery. Without having to have had any kind of epilepsy. Just for anxiety. Aspergers as well. But the main reason I want this isn't because of my overall mental illness, it's to enjoy a hobby of mine without any inhibition. Does anyone have an idea of what I should say to my psychiatrist to convince them I "need" to have my Amygdala removed? I know people say there are lots of things that can help instead such as medication, therapy, etc. but that just won't give me the results I want.


I probably will never convince the psychiatrist to say that its product doesn't work. Think about it.

Amygdala Surgery today is done with Gamma Knife treatment, that it's not a typical surgery with open skull etc.. it's no invasive, with slight collateral, you can work the day after the treatment.

It's easy to find in most advanced asian countries lik Korea India China, or Usa.

Best, Rossa


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## catharus guttarus (Oct 28, 2014)

The idea of having surgery done on my brain fills me with dread like no other thought. The thing is, once something is tampered with on that level, it is irreversible, it can never be undone. What if you lose something of your personality or your emotional flexibility? It seems to me that you could easily be turned into a docile lemming who is not able to respond to life's ordinary anxieties in the usual way that people are supposed to.

I heard of research on a vaccination that would remove the ability to be stressed out. That is a scary idea, too. Imagine if governments started vaccination programs to remove populations' normal responses to life's stressfulness. What impact would that have on working life when people could be made to work 12-hour days without the warning signs of stress and emotional fatigue? A nightmare vision of a totalitarian dystopia! No-one would have the sense to protest working conditions because no-one would have the sense to stay enough is enough. Why would they when they don't have normal human responses to those conditions?


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## Dying of Angst (Feb 20, 2016)

*Hi Everyone*

Hello!
I'm new to the group. I found you by looking up how to have my amygdala removed. I read a post with this link below, and I can't find you now to thank you for it! http://www.yalescientific.org/2011/04/fearless-literally/ It is just a surgery, and while I'm anti-surgery, if the need is great enough, I want to do it! I'd do careful research first, but some unbearable conditions warrant it.

I read some responses too. One was that if God wanted us not to have fear, etc. I remember something to the effect that God did not create man to live in fear. And I know that's true. And anyone who defends fear as a useful feeling is about to hear something new. Awareness is a useful feeling. With awareness, you don't need fear. I don't think that, without fear, people will cease to recognize boundaries or fail to "stress out normally." Did I really just read that? Stress may well be normal but it's hardly healthy or productive. It's a waste. And we want to keep and defend it why? Because we have the illusion that fear/stress protects us.

An example of how fear serves nothing is this: I walk outside and a bear starts to chase me. If that burst of fear causes me to run, I'm dead. The bear feels no fear from me - disarming. And since I lived with bears for 13 years and have no fear of them, I KNOW this is true. No chases ever happened either. With awareness, I KNOW not to go outside in the first place if a bear is in that mood.

For the man who wrote about not feeling anything anymore, God bless you. My doctor tried to give me Remeron, highly addictive, and it's a lobotomy in a pill. I refused to take it. I literally could not feel anything, not love, not joy, not myself or God, and I couldn't think straight. NO WAY was I taking that again! And I found a book suggesting "your drug may be your problem," so that's when I told my doc that I wanted to taper off 19 years of benzos. It's true that long term benzo use CAUSES anxiety. It's a slow and painful death. So a lot I covered since I don't know how to find the individual posts yet, but I hope it helps.

ALSO, I learned that 80% of Americans are magnesium deficient - a major cause of anxiety! I tried to post this once, but again I found angstrom magnesium chloride (100% bio-available) at Healthshop 101 and I'm replenishing magnesium as fast as I can. I understand it takes about 1 month for every year of magnesium deficiency, and I'm still waiting for the big calm, but I'm pretty sure it's coming.


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## SwtSurrender (Nov 24, 2014)

Project Atlas said:


> I know this has nothing to do with medication, but I was not sure where to put this. It's really just a medical procedure.
> http://www.yalescientific.org/2011/04/fearless---literally/
> 
> It seems like removing the Amygdala, can remove fear. Not just through something like mind over matter, but actually making it physically impossible to feel any kind of anxiety. Has anyone else heard of this? And if any of you have ever had this done please share your experience.
> ...


This is so cool, I never thought of removing the frikin' problem causing piece of **** as if it is a frikin' cancerous tumor growth! Awesome! This is so much better than being on medication - as long as there's no consequences of having the amygdalas removed, there's one in each hemisphere huh? Yeah!


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## Ascor (Jul 7, 2017)

*Important*

Dear R.
Hey,. This is very interesting to you and how you live after amygdala removal. 
If you are here, please talk.
Alex


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## cigpk (May 8, 2017)

Is this typical for people to have their amygdala removed for reduction of social anxiety? The amygdala plays a crucial role in the limbic system and this would 100% cause some very drastic (and probably bad) changes to one's emotions and thought-processing... It would remove the anxiety or the fear response but wouldn't it also remove the entire spectrum of emotions that we feel? aka a big part of what makes us human....?


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## anticristo (Jul 10, 2017)

I thought the ultimate solution was lobotomy but this seems even better.


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## The Buddha (Jul 12, 2017)

*Amygdala/Hippocampus removal?? Don't do it....*



rossala said:


> I probably will never convince the psychiatrist to say that its product doesn't work. Think about it.
> 
> Amygdala Surgery today is done with Gamma Knife treatment, that it's not a typical surgery with open skull etc.. it's no invasive, with slight collateral, you can work the day after the treatment.
> 
> ...


Trust me, if I would have been told the result of brain surgery, resulting in instant anxiety, and depression 2 years later, I would have demanded the GammaKnife, since it caused a nightmare. And I actually found it offensive they never, EVER told me I'd awake from brain cancer surgery with worse anxiety than before, they seemed to want to get all done asap. And some emotions were erased, anybody have emotions with a family member disappear?? Bull****....I still hate it, and considering antidepressants will probably need to be increased every year, forever, it's worse...


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## The Buddha (Jul 12, 2017)

I apologize; about 80% of the amygdala on the L side was removed, since the tumor was directly underneath, and they also removed about half of the hippocampus, so short-term memory was affected too. I'm a college student, and hit the deans list, somehow, 5 months after the bone saw, but the depression hit about 4 months later-severe, worse is that even when we feel outstanding after a brain surgery involving radical chopping of the pieces dealing w/ emotions & memory we know it's only temporary, we still feel it, not as drastic, but it's there, butterflies in the gut and anxiety migraines you'll never comprehend, going from where I was chopped to the middle of my back..study up b4 surgery!!


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## The Buddha (Jul 12, 2017)

Actually, if brain cancer chunks are _UNDER _the amygdala, we really have no choice, they will try to keep as much in as possible, though, because by removing it, we _CAN'T CONTROL _emotions, and contrary to peoples beliefs, removing it will cause anxiety and most of the time depression..GammaKnive's are the ticket, since we can retain emotions, and get away from depression that occurs with it. I speak from firsthand experience, and regret..


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## 546617 (Oct 8, 2014)

arent you supposed to remove the right amygdala for fear the left is more for emotions


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