# 20 reasons why I call Bull**** on the PICK UP ARTIST



## Gemini32 (Apr 12, 2011)

Here I'm starting a list of why that bull**** called the PICK up artist is bull**** and the last thing that people should read and waste time trying to mimic. I have read most those books so I'm not being one sided. I looked at both sides and took the other.


1) Develops false identity
2) You mimic someone else
3) Treat others like ****
4) Does not help with coping 
5) only talks about the good
6) Is used for "dumb" people
7) It was made for entertainment purposes
8)the original creator of the book was hoping it would be used for self improvement, but others saw it as a money making opportunity and just copied exactly what they did the teach others.
9) When money gets involved in picking up women never good
10) Mystery himself is just a magician and capitalized on the human psychology in mind ****ing.
11) does not bring out your natural self
12) does not build a foundation, just goes into straight how to pick up women
14) Women are not the answer to getting over SA and building confidence as the game and pick up artist preach so much.
15) The lines are used for drunken stupid girls at clubs and such
16) no one cares about a stupid opinion question ( ex. fight outside, you think men or women cheat more etc etc)
17) lose how to talk to others like a normal person
18)use stupid terms such as beta, rapport, kino etc etc.
19)it only shows the good of getting girls and doesn’t talk about rejection, coping and dealing with the rejection breaking up or getting put down. Doesn’t explain the months of harsh feelings and thoughts that run through your mind and how to deal with them. How to stay positive and move forward which is all key.
20) Makes things more complicated then it actually is.


Please, lets make this list continue.ADD-on to this list if you have anymore suggestions of why you hate,dislike, or enjoy the pick up artist
Thank you


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

I think the number 1 most important trait that pick-up artists have that allows them to do what they do is confidence (or at least the appearance of confidence). It's all about showing dominance and outward 'manliness'. They attract women who are shallowly interested in dominance in men, in the same way that some women attract men who are shallowly interested in hiked-up skirts and ample cleavage, etc. in women.


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## Gemini32 (Apr 12, 2011)

what they do your right seems as confidence but with zero foundation built . That bull**** confidence will only last for a little until they see right through them. Its about changing your overall life


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Are you a guy? Are you essentialy dateless because of your life circumstances? They want you!

The PUA industry was created by alpha males who are in the top 10%-20% of men who are absolute naturals with women. It's been around for years but it's only now that the issue of what my good man Steve Hoca, TFL, Involuntary Celibacy and the MRA groups talk about which is the taboo issue of all the lonely men out there who can't find a woman which in turn makes them chronically single and perpetually lonely. PUA preys on desperate men. I will never stoop to that level though because me I think PUA is garbage.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Are you a guy who hasn't actually asked a girl out because of assumptions about yourself and life and how women will react. Do you like to believe in conspiracy theories that make no sense and can be proved wrong in about five seconds? Do you like to get angry about nothing? If so, TFL wants you. And Hoca wants you to explain why Sex and the City isn't real life. Male shaming tactic. Sorry, but Hoca needs to grow up.



> Are you a guy? Are you essentialy dateless because of your life circumstances? They want you!


How is a guy dateless because of his life circumstances? Unless he's a monk or something. You're not dateless because of your life experience. You're dateless because you haven't actually asked a girl out.



> The PUA industry was created by alpha males who are in the top 10%-20% of men who are absolute naturals with women.


Okay, gonna stop you there because I happen to know a lot of pick up artists and the idea that they belong to some dreamed up Top 10% of "alpha males" is laughable. And they're not absolute naturals with women either. But the difference may come down to the fact that, more often than not, they actually approach women and see what happens.



> It's been around for years but it's only now that the issue of what my good man Steve Hoca, TFL, Involuntary Celibacy and the MRA groups talk about which is the taboo issue of all the lonely men out there who can't find a woman which in turn makes them chronically single and perpetually lonely.


Sex and the city? Real life? Skidmarks on underwear and other Hoca twaddle. This is not a taboo subject. Relationships and dating have been openly discussed all over the place. TFL and other wackos like to play the martyr card when their message is smashed and slashed to pieces by rational thought, critical thinking and actual experience of life. TFL are women haters. Not because they can't get girls. But because they hate women.

The fact that a guy hasn't yet found a woman does not make him perpetually lonely. He is only perpetually lonely if he just believes in conspiracy theories and doe nothing about the problem. Of course it's not easy all the time. But the man himself needs to work at it on an individual level. If that's with PUA, fine. But the guy has to do something if he wants to make a change. Change cannot be forced on people.



> PUA preys on desperate men. I will never stoop to that level though because me I think PUA is garbage.


TFL is utter garbage and prays on desperate men too. When you're angry and frustrated about a lack of "success" with women, it's very easy for some wacko, woman hating loon from TFL to come along and start preaching that it's okay, you don't have to actually do anything, it's all rigged and fixed and you can't win so don't try and get really cross for no reason.

I'm not saying anyone here has done that or become like that but such is the power of a dark message to some even if its utter twaddle.

But no, the individual has the power. They can choose to keep watching videos or not doing anything about the problem. They can choose to not let it bother them anymore. And they can choose to do something about it.


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## Spineshark (Mar 1, 2011)

The trouble with PUA is most people think it teaches them how to be good with women and find relationships but it was never created for that and if anything it reduces there chances of finding a relationship.

The sole purpose of PUA is to manipulate women into having one night stands.


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## Gemini32 (Apr 12, 2011)

joinmartin said:


> That's certainly one purpose of a variety of PUA techniques and schools but I'm not sure it's the sole purpose of it.
> 
> But getting into pick up when you're insecure isn't going to help you. It's going to hide you.


WELL SAID. I remember getting into this pick up stuff for a while. But everytime i would look at myself in the mirror and thought about how I talked to girls and such, it just wasnt me and who i felt i was. I feel 100 times better knowing a girl likes or loves me because of who I am and not portraying or acting as someone else.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

They do it because they are desperate. And have no options. And they are dateless. Or dating challenged. Take your pick. That's why.


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## Guest01 (May 5, 2011)

If being yourself means staying in the corner all night, just watching the girl like a creep, without ever talking to her, do you really expect "_just being yourself_" to work?

Staying your true self is overrated.


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## MojoCrunch (Mar 25, 2011)

Every girl I knows thinks Mystery is nasty.


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## mcmuffinme (Mar 12, 2010)

I saw the pick-up artist once. He was such an idiot. I couldn't believe guys were actually taking his advice! But what do we expect from a reality show on Mtv...or was it Vh1?

well, you see my point :/


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Mystery 
Hes a actor (Pretending to be what he isnt)


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## Harpuia (Apr 10, 2010)

> Sex and the city? Real life? Skidmarks on underwear and other Hoca twaddle. This is not a taboo subject. Relationships and dating have been openly discussed all over the place. TFL and other wackos like to play the martyr card when their message is smashed and slashed to pieces by rational thought, critical thinking and actual experience of life. TFL are women haters. Not because they can't get girls. But because they hate women.


What's with the Steve Hoca and skidmarks on underwear thing? Huh? *doesn't get it*


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Guest01 said:


> If being yourself means staying in the corner all night, just watching the girl like a creep, without ever talking to her, do you really expect "_just being yourself_" to work?
> 
> Staying your true self is overrated.


Interesting re-frame there. But in many cases it's the fear not the true self that stops a person from interacting with others.

And, whoever you pretend to be on a night out, eventually the girl is gonna meet the real you anyway so why not just be that guy to begin with?


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Harpuia said:


> What's with the Steve Hoca and skidmarks on underwear thing? Huh? *doesn't get it*


There's a very funny video clip of Hoca where he attempts to talk about women somehow "disliking guys because they might have skidmarks on their underwear". He then wonders whether women have skidmarks on their underwear too and then reveals he's getting all this from an episode of Sex And The City.

If you want to make a point about real life, don't use a fictional TV show. both Hoca and TFL loon Bill are widely seen on Youtube getting confused between TV and real life and then you just cannot stop laughing when they try and present themselves as serious commentators on anything.


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

Jeez. I didn't know there were whole volumes on this stuff. 

I was just planning on being nice and funny to get a girl :um


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## Guest01 (May 5, 2011)

Bluepanda said:


> Staying in the corner all night isn't being your true self though is it, It's more the opposite so your argument is flawed.


Huh?

With or without SA, I've never ever approached a girl in a similar situation. Therefore, is it not in my nature to do it. Period.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Guest01 said:


> Huh?
> 
> With or without SA, I've never ever approached a girl in a similar situation. Therefore, is it not in my nature to do it. Period.


So, it's not in your nature to do something you've never done before? If that is true, how did you end up doing all those things you did before? Because there must have been a time when you'd never done those things before. And you did those things and now those things are natural to you?


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## Quietguy90 (May 9, 2011)

you guys may want to check out RSD which is pua stuff with no lines etc etc, it aims to make you more confident and a better you and just socialize better in general. "The Blueprint" by them is all about self esteem and how you look at the world and has little to nothing to do with "picking up chicks". and no i dont work for them lol  it just really helped me out


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Quietguy90 said:


> you guys may want to check out RSD which is pua stuff with no lines etc etc, it aims to make you more confident and a better you and just socialize better in general. "The Blueprint" by them is all about self esteem and how you look at the world and has little to nothing to do with "picking up chicks". and no i dont work for them lol  it just really helped me out


There's some good stuff in The Blueprint for sure and I know it's helped a fair few guys. I've even posted videos from it on here before now. I've never been one for Power Of Now stuff and a lot of what Tyler/Owen comes out with is outside the planet bonkers so I find some of it hard to gel with or resonate with. But whatever helps helps and I like the focus on developing yourself rather than using daft lines on women that she's heard millions of times before anyway.


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## Guest01 (May 5, 2011)

joinmartin said:


> So, it's not in your nature to do something you've never done before? If that is true, how did you end up doing all those things you did before? Because there must have been a time when you'd never done those things before. And you did those things and now those things are natural to you?


I do things when I feel like it, and when I'm comfortable doing them.

Starting up a conversation with a person I've never seen before is not what I do. Unless I'm starting a new job, but that's different.


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## Gemini32 (Apr 12, 2011)

no point in arguing with guest101 still a new user. It's like trying to break a rock with a toothpick. should start up conversations with new people you never seen before, maybe it will be what you like to do. exposing yourself is key. 

That RSD stuff is alrite, but I believe another money making mumbo jumbo.

Joinmartin- why did you decide to became a NLP Practitioner? Doesnt it mainly look at patterns of experiences? why did you get into nlp in the first place?


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I love how a few years ago there were so many guys here who believed in the PUA stuff and bought into it. Now it is a 180.


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## Quietguy90 (May 9, 2011)

Its more about giving it a fair shot, i was never into any of the lines or crap like that but I believe that practice is key in order to gain social skills whatever you goals are, whether it is to have a nice social circle and a cool gf(my goal) or just bang as many chicks as you can find. either way you have to practice. Its tough but forcing myself out there has probably been the single biggest thing thats helped my SA


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## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

Rixy said:


> I was just planning on being nice and funny to get a girl :um


And how's that working out for yer?


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## ImWeird (Apr 26, 2010)

Aw, guys. Don't watch those videos... Those guys seem to be tools. I got myself a nice chuckle!


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

Harpuia said:


> What's with the Steve Hoca and skidmarks on underwear thing? Huh? *doesn't get it*


One of his critics chopped up one of his old videos and did a parody thing.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

stranger25 said:


> One of his critics chopped up one of his old videos and did a parody thing.


Not really. I mean, Hoca's stuff is so funny it's easy to parody. But all the person did was take a snippet of Hoca's video and show it to prove the point that Hoca is someone who talks utter crap. Absolutely fascinating bit where Hoca wonders whether women discriminate against men who may have skidmarks in their underwear. Hoca then wonders whether women have skidmarks in their underwear and then proceeds to try to use the example of an episode of Sex And The City as some kind of commentary on real life. It's absolutely hilarious drivel.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

If I was a moderator, I would ban any talk of Steve Hoca or TFL from this website. And anybody who went against that would get suspended or banned permanently.


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## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

Pua is garbage, if not careful, most of their methods can leave you worse of. The so called gurus don't bang hot girls as they say they do. The only good thing about pua is that it gets you to approach girls. It is obvious that your chances of picking up girls improve by approaching rather than not approaching at all.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

shynesshellasucks said:


> Pua is garbage, if not careful, most of their methods can leave you worse of. The so called gurus don't bang hot girls as they say they do. The only good thing about pua is that it gets you to approach girls. It is obvious that your chances of picking up girls improve by approaching rather than not approaching at all.


This is true.

And if you can just throw all the PU garbage out the window, and just approach girls, you'll have a head start.


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## Quietguy90 (May 9, 2011)

i think its more about developing yourself rather than following some method. 

Self development + grabbing ur balls and meeting new people= should equal some progress.


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## JTv1 (Jun 16, 2011)

Gemini32 said:


> Here I'm starting a list of why that bull**** called the PICK up artist is bull**** and the last thing that people should read and waste time trying to mimic. I have read most those books so I'm not being one sided. I looked at both sides and took the other.
> 
> 1) Develops false identity
> 2) You mimic someone else
> ...


You're not wrong. In fact, I agree with most on the list.

Thing is, no other resource in history has gotten more men out of the house than PUA.

With that said, the industry has evolved. Scammers have been outed, and the economy has weeded out the people not providing any value.


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## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

Bluepanda said:


> The trouble with PUA is most people think it teaches them how to be good with women and find relationships but it was never created for that and if anything it reduces there chances of finding a relationship.
> 
> The sole purpose of PUA is to manipulate women into having one night stands.


THANK YOU!
I think most guys on here want gfs and this PUA technique stuff is ridiculous for that.


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## OpiodArmor (Jun 15, 2011)

Wow those videos are insane. 

I got pissed off just watching that guy; maybe he can't understand the definition of confidence but if he started actually looking at the camera and stopped fidgiting around every 2 seconds he might look a little more so.

Why do guys buy into these crazy theories? Is it just a act of desperation and bitterness? Why can't they see that, just like EVERY OTHER PROBLEM, if you can't get a woman YOU -- YOU -- need to do something about it!

"All the cowards that won't say something about the unfairness of the dating world!" *Fidget* *Fidget* *Stare-into-space* -- God dude take a xanax. Really? Learn a second language and move to a different country? LOL. Really, just lol.


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## Ivan AG (Sep 29, 2010)

I find this site hilarious.

Takes the mickey out of the community.

http://www.puahate.com/index.php


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## 90%SAfree (Oct 8, 2009)

Completely disagree with the OP. Ive never used PUA but it depends on the person and how they use it. They can use it to have one night stands or use it as a way to get a woman interested and then be able to take her out on a date. I am an ******* to women that I want to take out because it gets them more interested in me. I then ask them out and if we click then we keep going out and if not then its on to the next girl.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

PUA didnt help my confidence, self esteem, depression, or anxiety. its used for entertainment. Out of thousands of girls ive approached i got one date but nothing more.


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## seraph1bk (Jun 21, 2011)

A lot of negativity here against PUA's. I agree that it has turned into a big marketing fiasco, but where there's a demand... hello supply! Someone's going to make money off of it and I feel nothing but love for these entrepreneurs. But like everything else in life, it is there to model after. 

Maybe you play guitar because of a favorite band.

Maybe you play a sport because of your favorite team. "Like Mike." was pretty common when I was growing up.

All these systems and methods are just that, systems and methods... It gives you something to say when you can't think of it yourself. Don't know where to put your hands? It's covered. Don't know where to stand? There's a diagram. Not sure how to dress? There are suggestions.

The message I get from that community would be that you should be the best you and fake it till you make it. I see no harm, no foul. But all that helping my this or that, it's all still on the individual. Don't get me wrong. I'm way terrified of it all. I was a PUA keyboard jockey for about a year... If you don't know what that means, it means I know practically all there is to know and haven't done a single approach... That part is still on me...


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