# Have you had a crush that went against your sexual orientation?



## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Simple question, have you ever had a crush on a person that went against your sexual orientation? Which means you crushed on a person of the same/opposite sex while you are heterosexual/homosexual.

Sorry that this won't apply to persons who are bisexual.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

I guess it's only fair for me to break the ice. Hetero people especially men may be reluctant to admit having crushed on same sex 

When I was in elementary school, I hanged out with a boy a lot. He's kind of a cool boy and I really liked him. I thought about him and even fantasized about being together with him more than I should XD. I think it qualified as being a crush. But there was no sexual element. This happened even before my first crush on a girl in middle school.

There was another boy, a classmate in elementary school, whom I was really close with. We hanged out even after elementary, but we were in separate middle school. I missed being in the same class with him very much, and thus it was to my great delight that he later transferred to the same middle school, same class as me, and we had a great time together until I later transferred. Though this one was more like a really close friendship than a crush. 

I really miss having this kind of feeling to another human being, especially having it reciprocated.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

good question. 

my answer will have to be boring though. No, is the answer. i cant remember crushing after anyone male. in fact, i dont remember having all that many anyway, but the few that there was were all females.


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## tea111red (Nov 8, 2005)

no.


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## sad1231234 (Jul 10, 2016)

No


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Some one who voted yes needs to share his/her story. 

Vote is boring, story is the interesting part.


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

Well, sort of I guess?

I thought I was straight until I had a crush on a guy in highschool

But that's more a case of not knowing what I was into, rather than going against my orientation


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I married an Argonian once in Skyrim.

Well Sapphire and Teldryn were never available, you take what you can get.

Ri'Saad wasn't either.


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Would genuinely love to reply to this thread, I find it interesting. Sadly, my orientation encompasses pretty much everyone. In order to go against it, I'd probably have to be looking at bestiality. Ah well.


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## Mc Borg (Jan 4, 2008)

Can't say that I have. A lot of my childhood crushes were tomboyish, though (that's not an offensive term now is it?).


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

You only get to marry NPC in this game right?



Persephone The Dread said:


> I married an Argonian once in Skyrim.
> 
> Well Sapphire and Teldryn were never available, you take what you can get.
> 
> Ri'Saad wasn't either.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

No, I never have had a crush on a guy. Have had plenty on girls but never have had any interest in guys at all.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

No. I am as straight as an arrow.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Arrow can be bent. How about straight as a beam of light?

(near a black hole )



iAmCodeMonkey said:


> No. I am as straight as an arrow.


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## noydb (Jun 29, 2016)

Yes, I had a crush on a female teacher for about a year when I was about 13. I can't remember if she even taught me at all. I just remember being completely infatuated with her. I though she was incredibly attractive and funny. I was so devastated when I found out she was married - not sure why I thought I had a chance???! It's very odd, looking back at it now, as I've never felt that way about a woman since, but at the time those feelings were strong! Though they did run concurrently with another crush that was on a guy, so :stu


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I married an Argonian once in Skyrim.
> 
> Well Sapphire and Teldryn were never available, you take what you can get.
> 
> Ri'Saad wasn't either.


>:wink2::grin2:

You have good taste in video games.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

springbreeze1 said:


> Arrow can be bent. How about straight as a beam of light?
> 
> (near a black hole )


haha!

Yeah, beam of light sounds better. >


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

noydb said:


> Yes, I had a crush on a female teacher for about a year when I was about 13. I can't remember if she even taught me at all. I just remember being completely infatuated with her. I though she was incredibly attractive and funny. I was so devastated when I found out she was married - not sure why I thought I had a chance???! It's very odd, looking back at it now, as I've never felt that way about a woman since, but at the time those feelings were strong! Though they did run concurrently with another crush that was on a guy, so :stu


Wow, you were not very loyal with your crushes lol. Just kidding.


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## noydb (Jun 29, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> Wow, you were not very loyal with your crushes lol. Just kidding.


Hahaha no that's fair... >


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> No, I never have had a crush on a guy. Have had plenty on girls but never have had any interest in guys at all.


I know a very petite and soft featured guy who does a lot of female character cosplay, very convincingly too

He's not transgender, he just likes how the outfits look.

What would you do if you had a crush on someone, and only found out they were male afterwards?


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

Red October said:


> I know a very petite and soft featured guy who does a lot of female character cosplay, very convincingly too
> 
> He's not transgender, he just likes how the outfits look.
> 
> What would you do if you had a crush on someone, and only found out they were male afterwards?


I'm just not gonna take the bait on that question my friend. No way lmao...nice try but no.

But I'd turn the question back to you also, and ask you WWYD? lol....

I'd just add that I'm not attracted to guys, at all. I'm very, very confident I could tell if he was a guy. I actually had a friend in hs and through college that was bisexual, and one night he brought one of his friends, who was mtf trans, to a houseparty we were at. They were trying to fool the guys there, to see if any of us could tell if she was trans, they were trying to see if any of us would be attracted, not knowing that she was trans. And I could tell. Right away.


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> But I'd turn the question back to you also, and ask you WWYD? lol....


I'd be fine with it, the guy I mentioned is seriously adorable lol



AllTheSame said:


> I'd just add that I'm not attracted to guys, at all. I'm very, very confident I could tell if he was a guy. I actually had a friend in hs and through college that was bisexual, and one night he brought one of his friends, who was mtf trans, to a houseparty we were at. They were trying to fool the guys there, to see if any of us could tell if she was trans, they were trying to see if any of us would be attracted, not knowing that she was trans. And I could tell. Right away.


Was anyone attracted? how did they react when they found out she was trans?


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

Red October said:


> I'd be fine with it, the guy I mentioned is seriously adorable lol
> 
> Was anyone attracted? how did they react when they found out she was trans?


Yeah there was a guy that seemed interested. The reaction when everyone "found out" was...there was a lot of eye rolling...it was very typical of my friend to do something like that, not surprising at all, so everyone was kind of like "get over yourself" lol. A couple of people were more like "go *** yourself" but it wasn't in a hateful way, it was more in a "just wait until I get you back for this" kind of way. There wasn't any hate or hard feelings or anything like that. I had absolutely nothing against her or him for doing that, it was kind of funny. I could just tell she was trans, and I wasn't attracted at all. Mostly the whole prank just failed.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

I've had crushes that go against other people's sexual orientation. Pretty sure all my crushes end up that way.


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

truant said:


> I've had crushes that go against other people's sexual orientation.


I had one like that back when I was at university, with an 'experimenting' guy

eventually he decided it wasn't for him, and started getting awkward around me :/


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Red October said:


> I had one like that back when I was at university, with an 'experimenting' guy
> 
> eventually he decided it wasn't for him, and started getting awkward around me :/


Too much of a boy for the people who like girls; too much of a girl for the people who like boys. Seems like the only people who are interested are the people who like pans. Must be my non-stick surface that appeals to them.


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

Yes. I've been pretty strongly hetero throughout my life, but I've had mild crushes on guys before. I realized fairly recently that I've always had a strong preference for befriending guys that I found somewhat attractive, which I know is kind of weird. Whether it was all attraction or some jealousy or whatever, I dunno. But I've definitely found some men attractive. And actually I've always found tomboyish girls most attractive, so maybe it's more potent than I realize.

And I'm okay with that. I'm pretty vocal in my support for the LGBTQ community, and while I don't think I could be bisexual I think it's awesome that many people are. It is what it is -- all part of the wonderful spectrum of human sexuality.

Edit: If you want a story then I'd probably point to my last RL friendship with a guy I met at work. At first I was very reluctant to even try to be friends with him even though I knew we had similar interests because we were both geeks -- SA makes it so hard, you know. But eventually I gave in -- partly because I thought he was really cute. Is it terrible of me to think of a guy as "cute"? I guess "handsome" would be more appropriate, but whatever. I found him attractive. One night we were over at his place alone playing Magic: The Gathering and I actually found myself thinking about kissing him! Jeez, it's embarrassing to admit even now. Of course I never brought it up and nothing ever happened but that was the first time I actually realized that I might not be 100% straight. The real hindrance to bisexuality for me is the whole idea of anal, which turns me right off. I have mild coprophobia so yeah... Couldn't do it. Er... is that TMI?


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Tetragammon said:


> Yes. I've been pretty strongly hetero throughout my life, but I've had mild crushes on guys before. I realized fairly recently that I've always had a strong preference for befriending guys that I found somewhat attractive, which I know is kind of weird. Whether it was all attraction or some jealousy or whatever, I dunno. But I've definitely found some men attractive. And actually I've always found tomboyish girls most attractive, so maybe it's more potent than I realize.
> 
> And I'm okay with that. I'm pretty vocal in my support for the LGBTQ community, and while I don't think I could be bisexual I think it's awesome that many people are. It is what it is -- all part of the wonderful spectrum of human sexuality.
> 
> Edit: If you want a story then I'd probably point to my last RL friendship with a guy I met at work. At first I was very reluctant to even try to be friends with him even though I knew we had similar interests because we were both geeks -- SA makes it so hard, you know. But eventually I gave in -- partly because I thought he was really cute. Is it terrible of me to think of a guy as "cute"? I guess "handsome" would be more appropriate, but whatever. I found him attractive. One night we were over at his place alone playing Magic: The Gathering and I actually found myself thinking about kissing him! Jeez, it's embarrassing to admit even now. Of course I never brought it up and nothing ever happened but that was the first time I actually realized that I might not be 100% straight. The real hindrance to bisexuality for me is the whole idea of anal, which turns me right off. I have mild coprophobia so yeah... Couldn't do it. Er... is that TMI?


Thanks for sharing your story. I think more people are not 100% straight than they themselves realize or are willing to admit.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> Thanks for sharing your story. I think more people are not 100% straight than they themselves realize or are willing to admit.


It is a cool story I guess...though I just can't really relate at all. I look forward to the day when straight guys can live in a world where their sexual orientation isn't questioned, and they're believed to be straight, and it's left at that. I'm kidding, of course. (sort of) lmao.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> It is a cool story I guess...though I just can't really relate at all. I look forward to the day when straight guys can live in a world where their sexual orientation isn't questioned, and they're believed to be straight, and it's left at that. I'm kidding, of course. (sort of) lmao.


I'm not questioning anyone's straightness. I just doubt absoluteness. There are hardly anything that's absolute, 100%. And I don't think it's necessary to see this as a challenge to your straightness. It should be seen as a default position and common sense, and thus doesn't convey much information.


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## Overdrive (Sep 19, 2015)

no


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> I'm not questioning anyone's straightness. I just doubt absoluteness. There are hardly anything that's absolute, 100%.


Well I'm absolutely, 100% straight, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for guys and girls to be absolutely, 100% straight (or gay). I agree absolutes are rare, and most things are not binary....I really believe my sexual orientation is, though. And I don't think I'm some sort of strange anomaly. I really think a good percentage of the population is the same way. Just my $.02 though.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> Well I'm absolutely, 100% straight, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for guys and girls to be absolutely, 100% straight (or gay). I agree absolutes are rare, and most things are not binary....I really believe my sexual orientation is, though. And I don't think I'm some sort of strange anomaly. I really think a good percentage of the population is the same way. Just my $.02 though.


No I don't believe that, and it's a position purely based on reason.

Human biology and psychology is based on too many factors for most anything to be 100%. Human beings are complex machines, such complex systems are more governed by statistical principles than by deterministic ones. Your feeling of attraction by men is completely dominated by that by women, that's what makes you straight. But that doesn't men have absolutely no sexual attraction to you. This attraction is just by far overshadowed by that from women.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> No I don't believe that, and it's a position purely based on reason.
> 
> Human biology and psychology is based on too many factors for most anything to be 100%. Human beings are complex machines, such complex systems are more governed by statistical principles than by deterministic ones. Your feeling of attraction by men is completely dominated by that by women, that's what makes you straight. But that doesn't men have absolutely no sexual attraction to you. This attraction is just by far overshadowed by that from women.


I couldn't disagree more. Guess we can just agree to disagree. But I do have a difficult time believing that you have a better understanding of my own sexual orientation than I do. I guess I wonder how anyone can have that much insight really, especially considering we don't know each other at all and have never really talked at all. That's pretty amazing, if you're that insightful....you really should right a book or something, or go on a tour, explaining the complexities of everyone's sexual orientation....so that, you know, they can have a better understanding of their own sexuality. Maybe you can even help people figure out their own sexual orientation? (/sarcasm)


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Tetragammon said:


> Yes. I've been pretty strongly hetero throughout my life, but I've had mild crushes on guys before. I realized fairly recently that I've always had a strong preference for befriending guys that I found somewhat attractive, which I know is kind of weird. Whether it was all attraction or some jealousy or whatever, I dunno. But I've definitely found some men attractive. And actually I've always found tomboyish girls most attractive, so maybe it's more potent than I realize.
> 
> And I'm okay with that. I'm pretty vocal in my support for the LGBTQ community, and while I don't think I could be bisexual I think it's awesome that many people are. It is what it is -- all part of the wonderful spectrum of human sexuality.
> 
> Edit: If you want a story then I'd probably point to my last RL friendship with a guy I met at work. At first I was very reluctant to even try to be friends with him even though I knew we had similar interests because we were both geeks -- SA makes it so hard, you know. But eventually I gave in -- partly because I thought he was really cute. Is it terrible of me to think of a guy as "cute"? I guess "handsome" would be more appropriate, but whatever. I found him attractive. One night we were over at his place alone playing Magic: The Gathering and I actually found myself thinking about kissing him! Jeez, it's embarrassing to admit even now. Of course I never brought it up and nothing ever happened but that was the first time I actually realized that I might not be 100% straight. The real hindrance to bisexuality for me is the whole idea of anal, which turns me right off. I have mild coprophobia so yeah... Couldn't do it. Er... is that TMI?


Yay MTG. That was probably just an intrusive thought? You're playing a card game together 
alone? It's sort of intimate in a way. Maybe your brain just 'went there' mine does that sometimes especially when I'm anxious with people I'm not attracted to.

Many gay guys don't do anal tbh or aren't that interested.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Guess we can just agree to disagree. But I do have a difficult time believing that you have a better understanding of my own sexual orientation than I do. I guess I wonder how anyone can have that much insight really, especially considering we don't know each other at all and have never really talked at all. That's pretty amazing, if you're that insightful....you really should right a book or something, or go on a tour, explaining the complexities of everyone's sexual orientation....so that, you know, they can have a better understanding of their own sexuality. Maybe you can even help people figure out their own sexual orientation? (/sarcasm)


I'm not saying I know more about your sexuality. I'm not talking about you specifically. What I mean is that I believe hardly anyone's sexuality is 100%, based on the reason I stated.

To really put things in perspective, imagine you are given 3 options, 1. no sex at all, for ever, 2. blow job from a hideous looking woman, 3. blow job from a beautiful transwoman who looks every bit like a woman (with clothes on that is). I would pick option 3 in a blink of eye. How about you? I would doubt your sincerity if you pick 1 or 2 over 3.

Or imagine that all the women in the world vanished, and there were only men left. Would you still insist that you would perform no sexual acts with men? That you wouldn't be attracted to some men over others?

Still, I can readily agree that for all practical purposes, you are as straight a man can be. Both of the above two scenarios are not very practical. I just don't believe that under absolutely no circumstances would you be attracted more to a man than a woman.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

springbreeze1 said:


> No I don't believe that, and it's a position purely based on reason.
> 
> Human biology and psychology is based on too many factors for most anything to be 100%. Human beings are complex machines, such complex systems are more governed by statistical principles than by deterministic ones. Your feeling of attraction by men is completely dominated by that by women, that's what makes you straight. But that doesn't men have absolutely no sexual attraction to you. This attraction is just by far overshadowed by that from women.


I don't think that's how it works for all people who call themselves straight. What you're describing sounds like someone with a strong preference and low aversion. Most super straight people do have a strong aversion, even to a romantic connection, due to social and biological causes. It would be the same with their equivalent homosexual group.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I don't think that's how it works for all people who call themselves straight. What you're describing sounds like someone with a strong preference and low aversion. Most super straight people do have a strong aversion, even to a romantic connection, due to social and biological causes. It would be the same with their equivalent homosexual group.


Well, that's where the habit of a mathematician comes in. Attraction and aversion are like positive and negative numbers. In math, positive and negative numbers are all numbers :grin2:


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## Kilgore Trout (Aug 10, 2014)

Yes. This guy in high school. Had a huge crush on him since day 1.

 I still have.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> I'm not saying I know more about your sexuality. I'm not talking about you specifically. What I mean is that I believe hardly anyone's sexuality is 100%, based on the reason I stated.
> 
> To really put things in perspective, imagine you are given 3 options, 1. no sex at all, for ever, 2. blow job from a hideous looking woman, 3. blow job from a beautiful transwoman who looks every bit like a woman (with clothes on that is). I would pick option 3 in a blink of eye. How about you? I would doubt your sincerity if you pick 1 or 2 over 3.
> 
> ...


Yeah not sure how this really factors in to real world scenarios, at all. But I'll play along. I would choose option 1 or 2. But never 3. Ever. And if every woman on earth suddenly disappeared (and again, not sure how this relates to any real life scenario) I would be having sex with myself or with no one at all, ever again. I guarantee it, man....I am absolutely 100% certain.

That's what I was really trying to explain....you and I are very, very different human beings when it comes to sexual identity, sexual orientation and preferences. There is absolutely no way I would ever do anything sexual with another man, under any circumstances. It's not just that I'm not attracted, the thought of doing anything sexual with another man is very repulsive to me. The idea really and truly kind of makes me feel sick. No offense to anyone who does....and none should be taken. That's just who I am. But at the same time I will never apologize for feeling that way, and I'll never water it down to make me appear more tolerant, or to be somehow less offensive in some people's eyes. I'm actually very tolerant...my own daughter is bisexual, ffs. I don't love her any less for being that way lol, of course not. In fact I probably respect her more than I ever have because she had the courage to come out to me and a few other people close to her.

Anyway, my sexual preferences are what they are. And I love women. And it's very much a black and white, all or nothing issue for me. I have never in my life once found a single man to be attractive, not in a sexual way. Nothing could turn me off more.

That really shouldn't be that hard to understand. If we can accept and understand that some people are bisexual or gay then surely we can accept that some people are strictly, 100% hetero. With no grey area there at all. Just because there's a grey area there for you does not mean there's one for me. Or for everyone, as you tried to claim earlier. Not everyone is the same lol.

~sent from my GalaxyS4


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

springbreeze1 said:


> What I mean is that I believe hardly anyone's sexuality is 100%, based on the reason I stated.


I agree. I think that a lot of people are downright scared of the stereotype of being even the tiniest bit "gay." It was a pejorative for so long, after all. Even today there's still a lot of pointless hatred and bigotry over sexuality and gender. And I think that any person, man or woman, who argues very strongly for a "black and white" straight vs. gay mentality is trying to prove it to themselves more than anyone else. Because they don't like the reality, that it's never 100%.

I hate a lot of gender stereotypes. I've always identified strongly as a male but I don't like sports or beer. I'm not that fond of cars or engineering. In fact I enjoy cooking and baking -- hobbies traditionally ascribed to women. I'd say I'm feminine in a lot of ways. That'd kill some guys to admit, but as I said I'm okay with it. And I feel kind of sad for these "macho" guys who cannot tolerate any femininity in their lives at all, entirely because of how it would "look" to others.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

@*Tetragammon*

because I fit into this "stereotypical heterosexual male" prototype that you pointed out...the type that happens to love sports (I love sports), working on cars, etc....that means I'm trying to "prove to myself" in your words that I'm what....100% heterosexual? Let's think about that for a moment. Are you ****** kidding me? Seriously? That's the most prejudicial, most ignorant, most irrational and biased and stereotyped, close-minded point of view you could have. That is the exact opposite of tolerant. That is putting me into a neat little category, one that you created, for all "heterosexual men" that do not doubt their own sexual orientation...and making huge, huge assumptions about us as a group. Wow. Just wow. Unbelievable, how you could make such assumptions about a group of people, and at the same time complain about us being close-minded. You seriously do not see the forest for the trees.

You are missing the whole point, imo. I'm not intolerant, or close minded. I just explained that my own daughter is bisexual, and came out to me just a couple of years ago. The difference between you and I is....I completely accept the fact that you have no problem with not being "100% heterosexual" as you've labeled it. I have no problem with you having some attraction to some men. I don't care. You, on the other hand, seem to have a very big issue with me being a totally hetersexual male, with no sexual desires whatsoever towards other males. That's the difference between us. You seem to have a problem with my sexual orientation, with my desires. And that's...wow....just pretty sad, really. I hope you get over that.


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## HenDoggy (Jul 26, 2014)

No, although I've been attracted to girls who look a bit androgynous? That the closest to crushing on the same sex.


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

@AllTheSame

Um, okay. I wasn't aiming my post at you though I see now how it came off that way. I apologize.

I'm sure that a great many men feel like they're 100% straight. I don't have a problem with that. To each their own. I just pointed out that those who feel the need to argue and defend themselves so vehemently against suggestions of even the slightest homosexual leaning tend to do so because they're afraid of the implications. Or because they're downright homophobic. And those are people I take issue with. I grew up around a lot of them -- hell, my own parents are very homophobic and it bothers me greatly.

I just don't understand why you're getting so upset over this.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

@*Tetragammon* I really didn't know how passionately I felt about this until I started being labeled for being straight lmao. I feel like it's been suggested that because I don't have any desire....because I've never had any crushes on other men....because I've never wanted to kiss another guy....(those are some of the things that have been mentioned in this thread)....because I've never felt that way some users are insinuating that I'm in denial about my own sexuality, or something.....which....is just ridiculous lol. It's been suggested in this thread (by you, also) that because you deny that you every have feelings towards the same sex (you are not 100% heterosexual) then you are living a lie. Wait a minute....wut?

No, I love women, it's as simple as that. I have zero, no, none, nada, no desire to hold hands with, have quiet romantic moments with, kiss, ***, mess around with, another guy. None. I'm 100% pursuing women.

If I'm OK with you identifying as a heterosexual male who also has some desires, wants, needs, fantasies about men also....if I'm OK with that, why can't you be OK with me being a totally heterosexual male, who has absolutely no desire to do anything with other males? Is it that difficult to be tolerant of my sexual preferances?

I really feel like this whole thread is becoming sort of a joke, a very surreal experience. I never thought I'd have to argue for the rights of heterosexual males to not be discriminated against. Am I dreaming right now?


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

Tetragammon said:


> One night we were over at his place alone playing Magic: The Gathering and I actually found myself thinking about kissing him! Jeez, it's embarrassing to admit even now. Of course I never brought it up and nothing ever happened but that was the first time I actually realized that I might not be 100% straight. The real hindrance to bisexuality for me is the whole idea of anal, which turns me right off. I have mild coprophobia so yeah... Couldn't do it. Er... is that TMI?





Persephone The Dread said:


> Yay MTG. That was probably just an intrusive thought? You're playing a card game together
> alone? It's sort of intimate in a way. Maybe your brain just 'went there' mine does that sometimes especially when I'm anxious with people I'm not attracted to.
> 
> *Many gay guys don't do anal tbh or aren't that interested.*


^this

even if you're not into anal stuff, what does the thought of kissing him do for you? any positive/negative reaction?


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

@AllTheSame

I don't think anyone had suggested here that you have to have experienced those desires you mentioned. I didn't say I had those desires either. I don't know why you think that way.

I clearly gave a "no" option. What I argued with you was a completely different question than the one asked in the title. I accept you "no" answer to that without any problem.


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

AllTheSame said:


> I really didn't know how passionately I felt about this until I started being labeled for being straight lmao.


I would so love for every single homophobic person in the world to feel that way at least once. Maybe then they'd be willing to change their views. If only...



AllTheSame said:


> It's been suggested in this thread (by you, also) that because you deny that you every have feelings towards the same sex (you are not 100% heterosexual) then you are living a lie.


Not necessarily, no. But there ARE some men (and presumably women) who live that lie. Who are so afraid of the stigma of being "gay" that they deny it, even to themselves. There must be a clinical term for the occurance but it's escaping me right now. Haven't you ever heard of the guys who beat up gay men because they secretly have homosexual leanings themselves which they cannot or will not accept? Or those people who vehemently stand against homosexuality only to have the public discover later that they were homosexual themselves?



AllTheSame said:


> No, I love women, it's as simple as that.


Great! I love women too! As I said I don't think I'd ever pursue a relationship with a man. But I'm willing to admit that I've been attracted to men before. I'm probably a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey Scale, while you're a 0. Fantastic. As I said, all part of the wonderful spectrum of human sexuality.



AllTheSame said:


> If I'm OK with you identifying as a heterosexual male who also has some desires, wants, needs, fantasies about men also....if I'm OK with that, why can't you be OK with me being a totally heterosexual male, who has absolutely no desire to do anything with other males? Is it that difficult to be tolerant of my sexual preferances?


Sorry if I gave you that impression. I only put forward the fact that there are SOME men who only pose as heterosexual because they cannot deal with the alternative.



AllTheSame said:


> I really feel like this whole thread is becoming sort of a joke, a very surreal experience.


So talking openly about sexuality and attraction is a joke now? That seems kind of offensive. We're trying to have a serious discussion here -- you're the only one getting all upset. Does it bother you that some men DO admit to same-sex attractions even though they're predominantly straight?


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

Red October said:


> ^this
> 
> even if you're not into anal stuff, what does the thought of kissing him do for you? any positive/negative reaction?


Yeah, that's why I mentioned that story; the thought of kissing him was really positive. Pretty much the same as thinking of kissing a girl. I didn't feel like the thought was intrusive or incidental at the time, though I guess it could have been.

Since I have no actual experience either way, perhaps the whole point is moot.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

Tetragammon said:


> I agree. I think that a lot of people are downright scared of the stereotype of being even the tiniest bit "gay." It was a pejorative for so long, after all. Even today there's still a lot of pointless hatred and bigotry over sexuality and gender. And I think that any person, man or woman, who argues very strongly for a "black and white" straight vs. gay mentality is trying to prove it to themselves more than anyone else. Because they don't like the reality, that it's never 100%.
> 
> I hate a lot of gender stereotypes. I've always identified strongly as a male but I don't like sports or beer. I'm not that fond of cars or engineering. In fact I enjoy cooking and baking -- hobbies traditionally ascribed to women. I'd say I'm feminine in a lot of ways. That'd kill some guys to admit, but as I said I'm okay with it. And I feel kind of sad for these "macho" guys who cannot tolerate any femininity in their lives at all, entirely because of how it would "look" to others.





springbreeze1 said:


> @*AllTheSame*
> 
> I don't think anyone had suggested here that you have to have experienced those desires you mentioned. I didn't say I had those desires either. I don't know why you think that way.
> 
> I clearly gave a "no" option. What I argued with you was a completely different question than the one asked in the title. I accept you "no" answer to that without any problem.


Look at the assumptions made in the first quote I posted here. Notice the sweeping generalizations. Wow.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> Look at the assumptions made in the first quote I posted here. Notice the sweeping generalizations. Wow.


I don't understand your strong urge to go out of your way to argue about this matter either. But I would refrain from making judgement.

Regardless, that's totally unrelated to what I said. Nobody is compelling your to admit that you have had those desires, or suggesting that you should have those desires, or that it's pretty cool to have had those.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

Tetragammon said:


> I agree. I think that a lot of people are downright scared of the stereotype of being even the tiniest bit "gay." It was a pejorative for so long, after all. Even today there's still a lot of pointless hatred and bigotry over sexuality and gender. And I think that any person, man or woman, who argues very strongly for a "black and white" straight vs. gay mentality is trying to prove it to themselves more than anyone else. Because they don't like the reality, that it's never 100%.
> 
> I hate a lot of gender stereotypes. I've always identified strongly as a male but I don't like sports or beer. I'm not that fond of cars or engineering. In fact I enjoy cooking and baking -- hobbies traditionally ascribed to women. I'd say I'm feminine in a lot of ways. That'd kill some guys to admit, but as I said I'm okay with it. And I feel kind of sad for these "macho" guys who cannot tolerate any femininity in their lives at all, entirely because of how it would "look" to others.





springbreeze1 said:


> _*I don't understand your strong urge to go out of your way to argue about this matter either.*_ But I would refrain from making judgement.
> 
> Regardless, that's totally unrelated to what I said. Nobody is compelling your to admit that you have had those desires, or suggesting that you should have those desires.


Look at the assumptions being made in the first quote here. Is there a better example of someone making assumptions, leaping to conclusions...passing judgments....I mean....it's right there in the quote....not every heterosexual male is "scared of the stereotype of being called gay" lmao. Some heterosexual males are just....heterosexual....100%.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> Look at the assumptions being made in the first quote here. Is there a better example of someone making assumptions, leaping to conclusions...passing judgments....I mean....it's right there in the quote....not every heterosexual male is "scared of the stereotype of being called gay" lmao. Some heterosexual males are just....heterosexual....100%.


Saying "I'm 100% heterosexual" means nothing to me. It's like someone asks you "how pure is your block of gold?" You answer "What do you mean how pure? It's 100% gold". Very few things in the world can be called 100% pure. For me it's just common sense.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Tetragammon said:


> Yeah, that's why I mentioned that story; the thought of kissing him was really positive. Pretty much the same as thinking of kissing a girl. *I didn't feel like the thought was intrusive or incidental at the time, though I guess it could have been. *
> 
> Since I have no actual experience either way, perhaps the whole point is moot.


If you felt positive about it then probably not. I think I misread your post earlier actually and thought you were more confused/negative about it for some reason.


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## SplendidBob (May 28, 2014)

Regarding orientation, if someone says they are 100% straight, or 100% gay, then I say take them at their word.

The thing is I suspect you can't objectively measure anyone's orientation without getting the all clear from their brain.

The brain takes all of the information available to it, the physical reactions, the way it _feels about those reactions_ and comes to a decision. That decision is what makes the orientation, without that decision you don't have an _orientation_, you just have someone running around trying to Donald other stuff with their hands and genitals.




So you could probably say something like "most people experience some kind of sexual reaction to non heterosexual stimuli" but you probably couldn't say "most people aren't 100% straight", because you can't bypass the brain with something like this. An orientation is something a person decides to self identify as, I think. Probably. Maybe (shrug).

Psychologists have no doubt studied this kind of thing, but I wouldn't necessarily trust them to get the idea of orientation properly nailed down before they began doing the experiments, piping in the filthiest of porn, observing physical reactions and then proclaiming "lololol everyone is secretly not straight" .


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

splendidbob said:


> Regarding orientation, if someone says they are 100% straight, or 100% gay, then I say take them at their word.
> 
> The thing is I suspect you can't objectively measure anyone's orientation without getting the all clear from their brain.
> 
> ...


Well I found a label that fit me 30 seconds ago based on something your post led me to think.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=agnostisexual

So the labels are. Still won't be using it mind due (mostly because it's kinda misusing the term agnostic :'))

Actually it still doesn't fit 100% but close enough.

I think it is fairly straight forward for most people because they can easily picture themselves having sex with people they're attracted to mentally, and instinctively know what they'd like or have real life experience. My brain on the otherhand is a cluster**** in regards to the first two points lol, and the sexual experience can't be relied upon either for other reasons, and the fact that it was limited on top of those other reasons.

Can still pick up certain things based on neurological/physiological reactions to other people though, although sometimes some feelings are harder to discern.


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## kesker (Mar 29, 2011)

I'm currently unable to stop looking at Donald and his.... felines.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Question for heterosexual men.

Would you marry this trans woman










Or this woman










Assuming you absolutely needed to pick one to marry for the sake of discussion.

Just to explain why I have trouble believing"100% hereto".

For me the line between repulsion and attraction doesn't coincide with the one between biological genders.


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

springbreeze1 said:


> Question for heterosexual men.
> 
> Would you marry this trans woman
> 
> ...


I think basing something like marriage or just relationships entirely on looks is dumb, no offense. Sure the trans woman is beautiful, but what if she has a terrible personality? Maybe the older lady is really sweet. I get what you're trying to say but still... I think that some hetero people wouldn't even be tempted by "traps" once they found out.


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


>


:heart


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> Question for heterosexual men.
> 
> Would you marry this trans woman
> 
> ...


Oh, that's not shallow. No. Not at all.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

@*springbreeze1*

Also....again....the main difference between you and I is....

I don't care that you might feel attracted to certain men in some ways. Go for it. I don't care that you have "grey areas" in your sexual orientation, that you don't have a problem exploring, thinking about...whatever....go for it.

But you seem to have a problem with me being totally, 100% heterosexual. You seem to have a problem with me never considering any guy attractive in a sexual way. You seem to have a problem with me not having this "grey area" in my sexual orientation.

So. Who is being intolerant here? Who is being close minded? Who's the with the tunnel vision, with the blinders on?


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

That is your problem. You see the statement "no one is 100% heterosexual" as people are compelling you to go out and "explore" with men.

I never said I want to "explore". That is totally straw man argument.

You seem to need the label "100% heterosexual" to guard yourself against unpleasant homosexual thoughts. I don't. I can safely admit I'm not 100% heterosexual without actually going out to engage in homosexual activity. I said I can feel attraction from pretty girlish boys but there are far more beautiful women who attract me a lot more.



AllTheSame said:


> @*springbreeze1*
> 
> Also....again....the main difference between you and I is....
> 
> ...


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

@springbreeze1 so.....educate me. What's the difference between how I think about my own sexual orientation (that I'm 100% straight and the thought of being attracted to a man makes me want to vomit) and your sexual orientation.....where you say there is this grey area. Explain. Clarify. State your position. If I'm wrong then tell me how it is.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Oh yeah, here we go again  "Everyone is beautiful". I should've seen that coming.



AllTheSame said:


> Oh, that's not shallow. No. Not at all.


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## AngstyTeenager (Oct 25, 2016)

I have always been confused with my sexuality, I am mainly attracted towards males, and I think this is because I haven't been able to express my sexuality favouring towards males; or how I deeply want a loving connection with a male. But I've also had feelings for a female briefly online, our personalities clicked but before I understood my feelings for her, we faded away from each other. We knew each other for a few months but I felt so close to her, which might sound dumb? I just can easily connect with others, even if I only know them for a few weeks but it seems so different in real life. I currently am talking to this guy online and he says that he finds me attractive/has feelings for me and yet he's 'straight,' and has never had feelings/sexual attraction towards other males before. We're both young however, meaning maybe he hasn't found himself out properly yet. But that's all I have to add to this conversation, really.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> @springbreeze1 so.....educate me. What's the difference between how I think about my own sexual orientation (that I'm 100% straight and the thought of being attracted to a man makes me want to vomit) and your sexual orientation.....where you say there is this grey area. Explain. Clarify. State your position. If I'm wrong then tell me how it is.


I didn't use the word "grey area", but I'm fine with that. The world is not black or white, but in many shades of grey 

I can feel attraction from some men (beautiful feminine men) but that's a far cry from wanting to have sex with them.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> Oh yeah, here we go again  "Everyone is beautiful". I should've seen that coming.


Lmao...yeah, well. In all seriousness though you seem to be having a real difficult time defending your position on this lol

~sent from my GalaxyS4


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## Losti (Aug 23, 2012)

Truly? No. I have admired guys from the past really strongly, ie thought they looked very attractive, were smart and athletic, maybe qualities I deep down wanted to see more in myself. Might sound strange, but during adolescence I could feel warmth or fuzziness if these guys would speak with me, but the feelings were never sexualised. It's really hard to explain, but that's probably the closest I've felt like I've ever been wired like a straight female observing an attractive guy. The last time this happened again, I was smoking on the rooftop of a hostel overseas with a tall, lanky Texan, both in our early 20's. The weird thing is despite both of us identifying as straight the fuzzy feeling was mutual. The guy also opened up about being socially phobic (without me directing it there) which only deepened our connection.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Losti said:


> Truly? No. I have admired guys from the past really strongly, ie thought they looked very attractive, were smart and athletic, maybe qualities I deep down wanted to see more in myself. Might sound strange, but during adolescence I could feel warmth or fuzziness if these guys would speak with me, but the feelings were never sexualised. It's really hard to explain, but that's probably the closest I've felt like I've ever been wired like a straight female observing an attractive guy. The last time this happened again, I was smoking on the rooftop of a hostel overseas with a tall, lanky Texan, both in our early 20's. The weird thing is despite both of us identifying as straight the fuzzy feeling was mutual. The guy also opened up about being socially phobic (without me directing it there) which only deepened our connection.


I don't think crush has to be sexual. It's more of a feeling of romantic attachment.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

I never had a crush on boys. I dislike most of them.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

No, I'm a straight guy.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

springbreeze1 said:


> Question for heterosexual men.
> 
> Would you marry this trans woman
> 
> ...


You know I think you need to deal with the fact that some people out there are, for all intents and purposes, 100% straight. It's a spectrum and so of course some people are going to be at either end and not in the grey area.

Andreja is beautiful though. Also kind of looks like an older Chloe Moretz sometimes.


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## thomasjune (Apr 7, 2012)

No. Never had a crush on another guy and I'm pretty sure I never will. Not that there's anything wrong with it...I just happen to be 100% straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> You know I think you need to deal with the fact that some people out there are, for all intents and purposes, 100% straight. It's a spectrum and so of course some people are going to be at either end and not in the grey area.
> 
> Andreja is beautiful though. Also kind of looks like an older Chloe Moretz sometimes.


I'm OK with using "100% straight" simply to say that for all practical purposes, a person is as straight as it can get. But from the very start, I had stated that this was more of a "theoretical" discussion. I never questioned anyone's straightness. I'm only reluctant to believe the extreme claims such as "I will never ever be attracted to a beautiful trans woman over a hideous looking biological woman", "I can always spot a trans woman and will never be 'fooled'". I have given "thought experiments" which we played through, which means we were accepting that we were not talking about practical situations. But I keep seeing it being reverted back to that, by saying a person is not 100% straight, it means he/she's actually going out experimenting. This is not what I mean. In this sense, I'm not in "grey area". I most likely will never "experiment" for the rest of my life.

Now I'm thinking the insistence on asserting 100% straightness has the element of homophobia in it. It's the reluctance to have anything to do with it, even if it's just some theoretical "thought experiment", people will take that as that "you are gay". For gods sake I admitted I'm attracted to a stunningly beautiful trans woman and the next moment I was about to go out experimenting homosexuality 

People have difficulty in keeping the goal post stationary.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> I'm OK with using "100% straight" simply to say that for all practical purposes, a person is as straight as it can get.


No, you clearly are not OK with it. That is just....laughable. Take a look at some of your statements (toward me esp) in this thread wrt that. And....take a look at the next line I quoted from you, in the very same post. You are clearly contradicting yourself.



springbreeze1 said:


> Now I'm thinking the insistence on asserting 100% straightness has the element of homophobia in it. It's the reluctance to have anything to do with it, even if it's just some theoretical "thought experiment", people will take that as that "you are gay".


You cannot say "I'm OK with using "100% straight...." and then say in the next breath the "100% straightness has the element of homophobia in it". A five year old could tell right now that you're contradicting yourself.

Your jumping to all kinds of conclusions, and making all sorts of assumptions here, none of which are fair. I can be 100% straight and not be homophobic.

Who is the one that's intolerant, that's closeminded in this thread again? Oh wait, that's right....it's the one calling straight people (that they don't even know on a personal level) homophobic.

I'm the least homophobic person I know, ffs. My own daughter is bisexual. My best friend through the last years of hs and into college was bisexual. It is absolutely ridiculous to say I'm homophobic, just because I'm straight or for any other reason. I'm secure enough in my sexuality that what you call me really doesn't bother me....except the pure ignorance of some of your statements just bothers me. This thread stops making any sense at all when you start jumping to conclusions like that...."oh well, if you're 100% straight you must be homophobic".

I'd actually question whether you're doing that to make yourself feel more secure in some way. "Well I have fantasized, thought about kissing, doing other things with other guys. So. If you haven't, there must be something wrong with you (and not me). Therefore you're homophobic". When....in reality there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. Lol. No one has suggested that, least of all me. And there's nothing "wrong" with me either, just because I'm 100% straight.

For fuqs sake, man. Get a grip.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

springbreeze1 said:


> A spectrum may or may not have ends (open interval), but either way, having a bunch of people at the ends is not a very well structured way of measuring sexuality, since, are those at the ends all equally gay or equally straight? It means the spectrum lacks the power to differentiate.
> 
> I'm OK with using "100% straight" simply to say that for all practical purposes, a person is as straight as it can get. But from the very start, I had stated that this was more of a "theoretical" discussion. I never questioned anyone's straightness. I'm only reluctant to believe the extreme claims such as "I will never ever be attracted to a beautiful trans woman over a hideous biological woman", "I can always spot a trans woman and will never be 'fooled'". I have given "thought experiments" which we played through, which means we were accepting that we were not talking about practical situations. But I keep seeing it being reverted back to that, by saying a person is not 100% straight, it means he/she's actually going out experimenting. This is not what I mean. In this sense, I'm not in "grey area". I most likely will never "experiment" for the rest of my life.
> 
> ...


Actually I'm more curious about why you are so determined to prove that 'everyone is at least a little bi,' just seems like projection and I find it tedious.

It might be homophobic sometimes, but often it's just a reaction from someone who objects to you insisting that everyone has an experience that doesn't fit their personal identity.

Personally I know I'm not 100% anything, but I do find it very irritating when someone can't accept that some people don't have exceptions.

Your thought experiment is ridiculous because it's a transwoman not a man. If you're attracted to the female charasteristics and temperement then that's not deviating from heterosexuality anyway.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Actually I'm more curious about why you are so determined to prove that 'everyone is at least a little bi,' just seems like projection and I find it tedious.
> 
> It might be homophobic sometimes, but often it's just a reaction from someone who objects to you insisting that everyone has an experience that doesn't fit their personal identity.
> 
> ...


I didn't start this argument.


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

AllTheSame said:


> No, you clearly are not OK with it. That is just....laughable. Take a look at some of your statements (toward me esp) in this thread wrt that. And....take a look at the next line I quoted from you, in the very same post. You are clearly contradicting yourself.
> 
> ...
> 
> For fuqs sake, man. Get a grip.


show me how I contradicted myself :smile2:


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> show me how I contradicted myself :smile2:


I just did. I literally just did.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

I don't really want to get in the middle of this argument, because I think most people who are adamant, are, like Persephone said, just frustrated about having their orientation questioned. That's a feeling I can understand and sympathize with. Sure, _some_ of them are homophobic, but I seriously doubt that's the most common reason for people to object.

But really, I just wanted an excuse to post Laith Ashley. :heart


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## springbreeze1 (Aug 4, 2016)

I wasn't challenging anyone's orientation. I had stressed this repeatedly. But I guess that my problem, my disconnection with society, with my tendency to take the theoretical approach. That's not how people usually think about things, and thus I'm repeatedly misunderstood.

Still, if I have a pattern of being misunderstood, I accept that's my fault, for emphasizing the wrong thing.

If you mention an obscure notion, which resembles a popular notion, but actually very different, people tend think you are talking about the popular notion.


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## AllTheSame (Mar 19, 2016)

springbreeze1 said:


> I'm not questioning anyone's straightness.


Uhmmm....yes, you most definitely were. You were questioning that I'm 100% straight. The quote below is your direct response to me saying "I'm 100% straight". Your response is....(below)...."No, I don't believe that".

I'm all for moving on from this thread because, tbh, it's getting to be a really old and tired argument. I think my side of this (being 100% straight) is honestly something I could explain to most people and they would "get it" right away. My ex-wife would, my kids would, my friends irl would, the girl I was seeing from this site would, my ex-gfs would. My parents would. You can deny the arguments all you want, but what you said is quoted below. Pretty hard to deny that, man.
"


springbreeze1 said:


> _*No I don't believe that, and it's a position purely based on reason.
> 
> Human biology and psychology is based on too many factors for most anything to be 100%*_.





springbreeze1 said:


> Human beings are complex machines, such complex systems are more governed by statistical principles than by deterministic ones. Your feeling of attraction by men is completely dominated by that by women, that's what makes you straight. _*But that doesn't men have absolutely no sexual attraction to you. This attraction is just by far overshadowed by that from women.*_


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## Tetragammon (Jun 2, 2015)

AllTheSame said:


> I'm all for moving on from this thread because, tbh, it's getting to be a really old and tired argument.


Why don't you move on, then? I don't understand why you keep coming back to this thread. You've proven that you're 100% heterosexual. Grats. Now leave the rest of us to our discussion.

Seriously, why are you still here and arguing so vehemently? I'm beginning to think you're a perfect example of my point from before.


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## Carolyne (Sep 20, 2016)

No, I never have.



springbreeze1 said:


>


You posted a woman's face. There might be a penis hiding somewhere off camera, but you didn't include that in the picture. You just included an attractive female face.


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## Red October (Aug 1, 2016)

I get the whole 'sexuality is a spectrum' thing, kinsey scale etc.

But even a scale like that still has the end points on either side

I prefer to just accept people's word on things like attraction though, it helps avoid so many misunderstandings


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