# Dexedrine & OCD



## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

my impression was that Dexedrine (i.e. pure d-amphetamine) did not necessarily have an adverse effect on OCD (i've even read a recent study where 30mg of IR Dexedrine was used in monotherapy as a *treatment* for the disorder).

i feel like Dexedrine really might be my last shot at getting my life back; the sad thing is i am not lacking for things to do. i have a career to get back to, friends who want to see me, etc. but i just kind of burned out amidst med trials, sleep problems, etc. now it's tough staying awake past 2pm, and even harder trying to piece a coherent thought together (which is sort of a prerequisite for the work i was involved in). 

i have a doctor who tried me on ritalin, but i didn't really care for it - it just made me anxious, and the comedowns sucked. i don't feel like it made my OCD particularly worse, but i did feel more depressed (i tried it for two weeks). the only other stimulant available to me is d-amphetamine IR, in a maximum dose of 20mg a day. 

now i tried a couple of dex pills from a friend and just felt high. i don't really wanna go down the path where i think it's working out because im euphoric, but then suddenly end up with psychosis or something. pretty deep into my Parnate trial (5 weeks), i started to get weird paranoid OCD symptoms at night from sleep-deprivation where i felt like i was going to lose my mind (more an OCD than schizo thing, granted, but the point is it drove my anxiety levels high). 

so is Dex (not adderall, but d-amphetamine) pretty safe overall, if i take it slow with the dose? any signs i should which out for which indicate i should back off? and are the paranoia/anxiety/OCD behaviours it might induce pretty easily resolved with the adjunct use of an anti-depressant? 

thanks


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## Selection10 (Oct 7, 2009)

It is pretty safe overall, though I recommend taking magnesium with it (especially magnesium taurate) to prevent tolerance and since it depletes magnesium and zinc from the body. Also start with the lowest dosage possible (as in 2.5mg) and see if that works, if not, slowly increase.

And yes even if you did develop paranoia, or even amphetamine induced psycosis(extremely rare), it's resolved by discontinuing.
It's unlikely to cause anxiety or worsen OCD I don't think, but if it does the use of an anti-depressant with it would address that issue most likely.

Another thing to watchout for that I experienced is burnout which led me to have really bad chronic fatigue. Dexedrine made me extremely productive to the point of exhausting myself and being nonfunctional once I got off the med. I resolved that with adrenal extracts & lifestyle changes, and low dose hydrocortisone. Doesn't happen to most people though.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

odspot said:


> my impression was that Dexedrine (i.e. pure d-amphetamine) did not necessarily have an adverse effect on OCD (i've even read a recent study where 30mg of IR Dexedrine was used in monotherapy as a *treatment* for the disorder).
> 
> i feel like Dexedrine really might be my last shot at getting my life back; the sad thing is i am not lacking for things to do. i have a career to get back to, friends who want to see me, etc. but i just kind of burned out amidst med trials, sleep problems, etc. now it's tough staying awake past 2pm, and even harder trying to piece a coherent thought together (which is sort of a prerequisite for the work i was involved in).
> 
> ...


by itself, it should make OCD worse, but if you use it with an SSRI/SNRI or other antidepressant, there wont be as much paranoia/anxiety/OCD.....i am taking Dexedrine with Memantine right now....the memantine appears to be preventing alot of the OCD/anxiety/paranoia, cuz memantine is used with SSRIs to treat OCD anyway. SSRI/SNRI + memantine should strongly reduce OCD/anxiety/paranoia caused by Dexedrine ( just my personal experineces, it might affect you differently) -and the development of it that would normally occur with Dexedrine. but if u cant get memantine, u should definetly take an SSRI/SNRI with it, at least a low dose of one, .....Dex by itself wont help OCD usually (it might help initially, for a couple days, but then the OCD/paranoia/anxiety would get ALOT worse....this is what happened to me)


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## BusterBluth (Sep 21, 2009)

Give it a shot; some people respond quite differently to dexedrine than they do to ritalin.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

Selection10 said:


> And yes even if you did develop paranoia, or even amphetamine induced psycosis(extremely rare), it's resolved by discontinuing.
> It's unlikely to cause anxiety or worsen OCD I don't think, but if it does the use of an anti-depressant with it would address that issue most likely.


thanks. the problem is that i probably don't have ADD, but something closer to chronic fatigue, so i have seen a separate ADD doctor in order to get stimulants prescribed (they're strictly reserved for ADD where i live). the guy kinda pushes stimulants over ADs - seeing them as a cure-all - so he seemed reluctant to use an AD as well (he also is only a GP, not a specialist). but i'll talk to him about an AD if things get messy.



> Another thing to watchout for that I experienced is burnout which led me to have really bad chronic fatigue. Dexedrine made me extremely productive to the point of exhausting myself and being nonfunctional once I got off the med. I resolved that with adrenal extracts & lifestyle changes, and low dose hydrocortisone. Doesn't happen to most people though.


that might be closer, like i say, to what i'm dealing with. the problem is i've spent close to two years in a state of fatigue, where my OCD has become dormant, but so has productivity/personality/my inner life. i've made a lot of lifestyle changes in that time, but need an extra push to get me back into working again. i've heard a stimulant (or stimulant antidepressant) can be useful in CF situations because it allows you to make the necessary changes. i know my limits now, so even if a low dose of dex will help me work part-time (i freelance) that will be more than enough.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> by itself, it should make OCD worse, but if you use it with an SSRI/SNRI or other antidepressant, there wont be as much paranoia/anxiety/OCD.....i am taking Dexedrine with Memantine right now....the memantine appears to be preventing alot of the OCD/anxiety/paranoia, cuz memantine is used with SSRIs to treat OCD anyway. SSRI/SNRI + memantine should strongly reduce OCD/anxiety/paranoia caused by Dexedrine ( just my personal experineces, it might affect you differently) -and the development of it that would normally occur with Dexedrine. but if u cant get memantine, u should definetly take an SSRI/SNRI with it, at least a low dose of one, .....Dex by itself wont help OCD usually (it might help initially, for a couple days, but then the OCD/paranoia/anxiety would get ALOT worse....this is what happened to me)


i wonder if it only makes certain kinds of OCD worse. it seems strange that the study, which was conducted over a 6 month period, showed a consistent reduction in OCD scores.

i think memantine + dexedrine alone would be too much dopamine (isn't memantine a serotonin antagonist?) to be of much use. i don't like SSRI's though. i wonder if moclobemide, which i found okay, would work in place of one? otherwise i have thought about a low-dose SSRI/moclobemide and low-dose dex, without the memantine to potentiate the dex.

i am not using dex to reduce my OCD per se, but enhance my thinking to the point where it doesn't cause a huge OCD flare-up.

when i tried memantine alone, at a low dose, i literally felt my mind awaken from a 2-year coma. unfortunately, the effect faded quickly. but at least i know my brain has the potential to 'work' again.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

Selection10 said:


> And yes even if you did develop paranoia, or even amphetamine induced psycosis(extremely rare), it's resolved by discontinuing.


oh yeah, and what are the preliminary signs of amph psychosis? obviously a lot of the time OCD shares similarities with paranoid thinking (ruminating over irrational dangers), so it's hard to differentiate for me. i have heard 'overthinking' is a sign, i.e. your brain never stops or calms down, but again that is kinda similar to OCD.

at what point does it cease to be OCD, and start to become psychosis? i'm wondering if there's a point where i can withdraw before i start hallucinating or anything funky


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## Selection10 (Oct 7, 2009)

odspot said:


> oh yeah, and what are the preliminary signs of amph psychosis? obviously a lot of the time OCD shares similarities with paranoid thinking (ruminating over irrational dangers), so it's hard to differentiate for me. i have heard 'overthinking' is a sign, i.e. your brain never stops or calms down, but again that is kinda similar to OCD.
> 
> at what point does it cease to be OCD, and start to become psychosis? i'm wondering if there's a point where i can withdraw before i start hallucinating or anything funky


As long as you don't take high dosages it should be an _extremely_ rare side effect that you'll like never encounter.

If you did it will show up as paranoid delusions & hallucinations (auditory and/or visual). If you already have over-thinking and paranoid thoughts, then any worsening or dramatic changes in your typical behavior or thoughts would be a good indicator to stop the d-amphetamine, as it likely isn't the medication for you if it's worsening your symptoms and not helping!

If you want a more in-depth medical article on it you can check out
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289973-overview


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

Selection10 said:


> As long as you don't take high dosages it should be an _extremely_ rare side effect that you'll like never encounter.
> 
> If you did it will show up as paranoid delusions & hallucinations (auditory and/or visual). If you already have over-thinking and paranoid thoughts, then any worsening or dramatic changes in your typical behavior or thoughts would be a good indicator to stop the d-amphetamine, as it likely isn't the medication for you if it's worsening your symptoms and not helping!
> 
> ...


cool thanks. i imagine, based on what you say, that the worst i'll experience is an aggravation of OCD. i'm not prone to paranoia (outside of OCD stuff - e.g. what if i cause a car accident, etc.) so should be okay.

one other question - how did you find out you had CF? i've been thinking of asking my doctor to conduct a cortisol test (the one time i tried Dex, i experienced pretty bad hypoglycemic-type symptoms + some agitation, but then again i did just have salad for breakfast + lunch). however, someone told me that sort of reaction to stims can also indicate adrenal burnout.

i really wish i knew what was going on. obviously a depression of some sort, but what's strange is that there's no emotional anguish. i just feel really flat, and suffer from profound mental fatigue. i've been thru most AD classes, including the MAOI's (which were great for mood), but nothing has specifically helped my ability to *think*, only my ability to react. the couple of psychs i've seen haven't been much help (one didn't even offer a diagnosis, but just declared that sometimes our neurotransmitters burn out????), so if i don't have much luck with dex, i might try a mood disorder specialist or something.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

odspot said:


> i wonder if it only makes certain kinds of OCD worse. it seems strange that the study, which was conducted over a 6 month period, showed a consistent reduction in OCD scores.
> 
> i think memantine + dexedrine alone would be too much dopamine (isn't memantine a serotonin antagonist?) to be of much use. i don't like SSRI's though. i wonder if moclobemide, which i found okay, would work in place of one? otherwise i have thought about a low-dose SSRI/moclobemide and low-dose dex, without the memantine to potentiate the dex.
> 
> ...


memantine is only a Serotonin 5ht3 antagonist....it doesnt really raise dopamine significantly, but it can in some cases. i was thinking the same thing, maybe moclobemide would work well with Dex, if you dont like SSRIs...cuz moclobemide is really weak compared to SSRIs....so like 150-300mg or so, 2-3 times a day wouldn't cause side effects like SSRIs...but it could still have weak antidepressant effects, and might potentiate dexedrine a little bit in reducing fatigue and depression.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Amphetamines completely cure me of OCD.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> memantine is only a Serotonin 5ht3 antagonist....it doesnt really raise dopamine significantly, but it can in some cases. i was thinking the same thing, maybe moclobemide would work well with Dex, if you dont like SSRIs...cuz moclobemide is really weak compared to SSRIs....so like 150-300mg or so, 2-3 times a day wouldn't cause side effects like SSRIs...but it could still have weak antidepressant effects, and might potentiate dexedrine a little bit in reducing fatigue and depression.


for some reason, when i tried moclobemide (the first AD i went on) my doc only prescribed a max of 300mg. i remember it being good for anxiety, and pretty clean cognitively, but causing a bit of apathy, so i think it might work well with dex. when i informed the first psych i saw, he was surprised i only tried 300mg, and said you can go as high as 900-1200mg a day.

how does dexedrine affect SE? do you think taking a low dose of memantine with dex might not necessitate an AD at all?


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> Amphetamines completely cure me of OCD.


i thought you said the effect was only transient?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> i thought you said the effect was only transient?


What does "transient" mean?
They cure me when i'm on them.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> What does "transient" mean?
> They cure me when i'm on them.


You sort of answered your own question. It kind of means temporary, or fleeting. Not permanent.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

crayzyMed said:


> What does "transient" mean?
> They cure me when i'm on them.


i thought i remembered you saying something of the effect that they work well for a couple of days, but then cause anxiety. maybe i was imagining it. why don't you stay on them?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> i thought i remembered you saying something of the effect that they work well for a couple of days, but then cause anxiety. maybe i was imagining it. why don't you stay on them?


Because i dont have them prescribed. I experimented with low daily doses of street amphetamine but i cant keep on doing that.

I dont think ive said, i did get paranoia from the amphetamine but thats a differend kind of anxiety.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

odspot said:


> i thought i remembered you saying something of the effect that they work well for a couple of days, but then cause anxiety. maybe i was imagining it. why don't you stay on them?


i think that might have been me who said they worked transiently for me....then they start to make my OCD worse, if im just taking Dexedrine/Adderall by itself. it wouldnt always make OCD worse for everyone.....maybe the assumption doctors have (that Stimulants make OCD worse) is just a hypothesis, resulting from the observation that some Stimulant users develop "OCD-like" symptoms after chronic use. im just guessing here also, but i think a large portion of Simulant-induced OCD is caused by alterations/increases in NMDA/glutamate activity,...as opposed to increased Dopamine causing it.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> i think that might have been me who said they worked transiently for me....then they start to make my OCD worse, if im just taking Dexedrine/Adderall by itself. it wouldnt always make OCD worse for everyone.....maybe the assumption doctors have (that Stimulants make OCD worse) is just a hypothesis, resulting from the observation that some Stimulant users develop "OCD-like" symptoms after chronic use. im just guessing here also, but i think a large portion of Simulant-induced OCD is caused by alterations/increases in NMDA/glutamate activity,...as opposed to increased Dopamine causing it.


yeah, that's the just of what i've heard - that stimulants are more likely to induce OCD behaviours in people. since i suffer from pure-o (ruminations with no compulsions) i wonder how i'll fare.

anyway, i've decided to go ahead with the trial. i'm seeing my doctor next week to arrange a prescription. at least i'm in weekly therapy, so my psychologist could monitor any drastic changes in my thoughts/behaviour.

i feel like i've been really dumb and kinda impulsive with med choices over the past year or two (wish i'd never opted for the MAOI's - i don't think my depression was ever bad enough, but i just got seduced by their clinical potency). but since i'm in CBT now i have a better understanding of what it is i want out of meds; i really feel like it's my executive function - the ability to think, plan, and organize my thoughts - which is suffering over everything else.

i keep freaking out thinking what if the Dex works but poops out, or i end up addicted, etc. etc. but i guess i gotta go ahead with what seems right now. i don't think my situations going to improve if i just continue in this state.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

odspot said:


> yeah, that's the just of what i've heard - that stimulants are more likely to induce OCD behaviours in people. since i suffer from pure-o (ruminations with no compulsions) i wonder how i'll fare.
> 
> anyway, i've decided to go ahead with the trial. i'm seeing my doctor next week to arrange a prescription. at least i'm in weekly therapy, so my psychologist could monitor any drastic changes in my thoughts/behaviour.
> 
> ...


well, if it does work, there are a few ways to prevent it from pooping out/getting tolerant, it can be made into a long term solution, if u use the right stuff with it to prevent tolerance.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

Vini Vidi Vici said:


> well, if it does work, there are a few ways to prevent it from pooping out/getting tolerant, it can be made into a long term solution, if u use the right stuff with it to prevent tolerance.


But the most important thing is to still take enough breaks+ reset periods. For now taking amphetamine daily is still an utopia.
But yes it can be made into a long term solution.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Man I felt really really good on Dexedrine today. I was out and about, feel both mentally and physically great (despite being very sleep deprived) and having no problems whatsoever being super-social. It's been a good day so far.

I notice if I take too much though, my focus and motivation gradually turn into obsessions and compulsions. Very difficult to explain, but these beneficial cognitive effects (to help with studying, for instance) almost seem like they're on the exact same spectrum as full-blown, uncontrollable OCD, and the only real difference is in the size of the dose and the proportionate response.


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## mark555666 (May 1, 2008)

Do you take your amphetamines without klonopin?


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Freesix88 said:


> Do you take your amphetamines without klonopin?


Yes, and then if I feel the Dexedrine is a bit too much I'll take the Klonopin to smooth it out. In general though, as long as I stick to reasonably low doses, the Dexedrine actually seems not to be just prosocial but flat-out anxiolytic as well, something I would NOT have believed had somebody told me this a month ago.


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## odspot (Sep 1, 2009)

this may sound strange, but does anyone here suffer from Restless Leg Syndrome? i always get it as a side-effect of AD's, but lately it just seems to be hanging around on its own, which is worsening my sleep quality, and in turn my daytime performance, etc. 

is there any reason to believe Dexedrine could worsen RLS? do its actions coincide with the pathways implicated in the syndrome at all?


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

odspot said:


> this may sound strange, but does anyone here suffer from Restless Leg Syndrome? i always get it as a side-effect of AD's, but lately it just seems to be hanging around on its own, which is worsening my sleep quality, and in turn my daytime performance, etc.
> 
> is there any reason to believe Dexedrine could worsen RLS? do its actions coincide with the pathways implicated in the syndrome at all?


Id actually say amph takes care of RLS.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

I'll be sure to report how Dexedrine works on SA, OCD, and depression once the lazy ***** at drugstore.com get off their *** and get it filled and sent out and the Pony Express manages to get it from NJ to WI.


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## fcbfcb (Sep 17, 2009)

Concerning OCD and amphetamines, I tend to become super focused on one specific task so that its very hard too pull myself away from it, which is great if its something productive but not so much if its something dumb, so this effect (which is somewhat dose dependant) can be very OCD-like in nature. But for Pure-O this may not be relevant - a more organized/focused train of though may be just what you need.

My doc wouldn't give me dexedrine (he's not experienced with prescribing it), so I got a sub-optimal dose of Adderall instead. I'm finding its not as calm as pure dextro which may be negating some of the pro-social effects I expected. The L-amphet pushing out more NE is likely the culprit. I'll make another push for dexedrine in my next appointment. If i can get a higher dose of adderral I wont complain, but for now I'm in the doghouse having already finished all the puny adderalls:bash


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

fcbfcb said:


> I'm in the doghouse having already finished all the puny adderalls:bash


What size Adderall did you get? CR or IR? I seem to recall Adderall IR comes in a whole bunch of sizes from 5 to 30 mg (that all cost the same, so those of us without insurance would cut pills).


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## fcbfcb (Sep 17, 2009)

UltraShy said:


> What size Adderall did you get? CR or IR? I seem to recall Adderall IR comes in a whole bunch of sizes from 5 to 30 mg (that all cost the same, so those of us without insurance would cut pills).


I got 10mg XR, at that dosage I would be better off with IR and have a decent 4-6 hours of efficacy. 10mg spread out over such a long period has minimal benefits for me (if any), maybe good enough for a child/teen or small female. And even generic XR is still super expensive, so its kind of a waste for the 10mgs.


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## Vini Vidi Vici (Jul 4, 2009)

odspot said:


> this may sound strange, but does anyone here suffer from Restless Leg Syndrome? i always get it as a side-effect of AD's, but lately it just seems to be hanging around on its own, which is worsening my sleep quality, and in turn my daytime performance, etc.
> 
> is there any reason to believe Dexedrine could worsen RLS? do its actions coincide with the pathways implicated in the syndrome at all?


yeah i do, all the time...i have ever since i started antidepressants 3 years ago. its a common/predictable side effect of SSRIs and SNRIs, RLS is kinda like really low-grade akathisia. When RLS gets really bad, its alot like akathisia.

Adderral, specifically, would reduce my RLS at first, (via enhanced Dopamine release/activity). but over time, i got the usual psychomotor sensitization to Adderral, resulting in less Dopamine effects, and increased Adrenergic/excitatory activity. my RLS became absolutely terrible on Adderral.....but on Dexedrine, i havent noticed this as much. its still present, but much less so (Dexedrine releases more Dopamine, and less Norepinephrine, usually). but i must mention, i am also taking alot of other medications, which are definetly reducing my RLS....so i cant say the Dexedrine is better, because i havent ever taken it by itself/without other meds.

Addy/Dexedrine should/can predictably worsen RLS after chronic use....because psychomotor stimulation increases (probably due to increased Norepinephrine, and also increased NMDA/glutamate/ other excitatory activity in certain regions of the brain) and D2 receptors become downregulated....Dopamine activity gradually decreases, while stimulation gradually increases, resulting in worsened RLS.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

fcbfcb said:


> And even generic XR is still super expensive, so its kind of a waste for the 10mgs.


Over the last month I checked prices on all of them. Yeah, generic XR is a bit more than 4 times the price of IR, about $165 for 30 XR capsules regardless of dosage size.


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