# Apology to Ballerina



## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

I am taking this opportunity to apologize to Ballerina for the remark that I made yesterday. It was wrong of me to do so. I reacted poorly because I was being pushed on an issue that I though had been ended two months ago. I am sorry for what I said.

Don


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

That's great. 

The only issue I have with the whole thing is that if a regular member here had said what you said, they wouldn't have the opportunity to apologize because they would have been banned, likely permanently.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

So you're apologising to her, but not to anyone else for the disgusting thing you said about women?

Excellent.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

The comment about rape and women asking for it needs to be addressed. It goes beyond just one user here, and extends to every rape survivor. It was extremely inappropriate.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Wow, that was some rude and inappropriate comment.

And this apology is appearing many times. Okay.

Okay, back to some other website. Enough perusing here.


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## TinyFlutter (Jun 19, 2011)

What you said sets a terrible example to other members on here. I recall an incident where I mentioned in a thread someone sending me inappropriate PMs and a member came out and said to me "that's the response I get for wearing fishnet stockings". I dress for myself and what I decide to wear on my own body isn't an excuse nor does it justify *other* people's actions. Because I wear hosiery, I am apparently "asking" for sexual remarks from guys...and I guess asking for *it* too right?


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

PiscesVixen said:


> What you said sets a terrible example to other members on here. I recall an incident where I mentioned in a thread someone sending me inappropriate PMs and a member came out and said to me "that's the response I get for wearing fishnet stockings". I dress for myself and what I decide to wear on my own body isn't an excuse nor does it justify *other* people's actions. Because I wear hosiery, I am apparently "asking" for sexual remarks from guys...and I guess asking for *it* too right?


Agreed. It's called victim blaming and it's not ok in any way, shape, or form.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't accept this. Not good enough. 

it was inexcusable and as far as I'm concerned, this shows that a double standard, one for regular posters and one for moderators, exists. Also, as has been astutely pointed out, the comment concerns more than one person. 

absolutely unacceptable.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

This thread needs a **** walk link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****Walk

I am actually considering going to the next one after reading this stuff here.


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## lad (Sep 26, 2011)

Are men allowed to go to **** walk?


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Yes, I posted several **** walk links in the thread that he closed, without even acknowledging what we were saying about his comment.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

Innamorata said:


> Yes, I posted several **** walk links in the thread that he closed, without even acknowledging what we were saying about his comment.


Yes, I saw your links. Thought that this thread needs them, too. :yes


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

I would like to take this opportunity to say that I believe the photo thread would be more enjoyable, and fair for everyone, if the comments and quotes option was not allowed. Comments could be made through PM. I see many decent looking people in there that no one commented on. That must be a huge blow to those peoples when they are completely ignored. All the pretty, popular, and half dressed girls getting page after page of quotes is just really disgusting to me.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

^ fair enough, good on you for coming up with a constructive suggestion. however, to bring this thread back to the subject at hand, it doesn't matter how anyone appears on that thread, no one deserves the comment being referred to on this thread.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

The apology does seem like a band-aid on a severed limb. The comment certainly was an insult to rape survivors and those who love them, which given the prevalence of sexual assault, is pretty much everyone. It's also an insult to decent standards.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Lisa said:


> Yes, I saw your links. Thought that this thread needs them, too. :yes


Every thread he posts in needs them :yes


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Too much emphasis on Words. I just hope for the thoughts that are in one's head. Words are difficult, but there are some things you shouldn't even think.

"We blame her for being there. But we are here. We are all guilty." -I.M.


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

leonardess said:


> ^ it doesn't matter how anyone appears on that thread, no one deserves the comment being referred to on this thread.


Yes, the comment was uncalled for, he's apologized.

Any girl posting a pic of herself dressed provocatively over the internet should expect harassment. 
Yes its wrong, but that's just the way sex deprived people react to skin flicks.

Surly everyone knows this fact.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

He's not apologised for the comment about rape.

And a bit of harassment online is completely different to rape.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

Tugwahquah said:


> Yes, the comment was uncalled for, he's apologized.
> 
> Any girl posting a pic of herself dressed provocatively over the internet should expect harassment.
> 
> ...


I disagree. again, on a privately owned, moderated forum, such comments as the one referred to here, is uncalled for, particularly from a moderator, and beggars belief. 
I suppose if I walk down a dark alley whilst going home at night, I should "expect" to be raped, mugged, whatever, but that does not make it okay.


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## Lasair (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm afraid to give my opinion now on this whole thing.......


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

What exactly did he say? I must have missed it.


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## ThatKidTotallyRocks (Oct 11, 2011)

I never saw the infamous thread, but I do think that flirty comments and the like directed at a person should be sent as a private message or a wall post. That way, the post doesn't get seen by people it's not meant for. Etc, etc...


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Tugwahquah said:


> Yes, the comment was uncalled for, he's apologized.
> 
> Any girl posting a pic of herself dressed provocatively over the internet should expect harassment.
> 
> ...


This was more than harassment. It was an embarrassment to men, and an insult to women. Again, words. I don't know what thoughts go through another's head, but....in defense of humans...People say stupid things. Some things are uncalled for, though, and should not be acted upon in words or actions.


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## ThatKidTotallyRocks (Oct 11, 2011)

Mercurochrome said:


> Tugwahquah said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the comment was uncalled for, he's apologized.
> ...


That is true. Everybody says things they wish they could take back.


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## CynicalOptimist (Dec 31, 2010)

I missed the thread in relation to the issue at hand. Can anyone let me know exactly what was said by Amocholes?

For what it's worth, I am definitely not a fan of victim blaming of any kind, but especially in relation to sexual assault or racism. I am disappointed to hear this has taken place, especially by that of a mod...very disappointing.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

I found it here: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f52/amochales-2-uncalled-for-comment-147868/


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

Holy ****.


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

guys, give him a break, he's deeply hurt for the comment he made, he has suffered enough, forgive him and get over it, seriously


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

Yes, people say stupid things, but when you're in a position of authority and power you have a responsibility to watch what you say. How could anyone possibly think that is an appropriate comment to make toward a member here— especially twice?

Amocholes has a history of insulting comments, banning people he dislikes, etc. I think mm75 and the rest of the crew do a good job, but this guy is not fit to be a moderator.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

ShinAkuma said:


> guys, give him a break, he's deeply hurt for the comment he made, he has suffered enough, forgive him and get over it, seriously


ShinAkuma, _he_ is hurt by _his _comment? Are you being serious?

Oh, hang on...... you are the one with those many, many threads about women. And how very interesting your viewpoints on women always are!


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Lisa said:


> ShinAkuma, _he_ is hurt by _his _comment? Are you being serious?
> 
> Oh, hang on...... you are the one with those many, many threads about women. And how very interesting your viewpoints on women always are!


*claps*


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

please, all, let's not turn this into another gender war between specific members of the forum.

the subject at hand here is a specific comment by a specific moderator, and what will be done about it. 

sometimes, people say things that cannot be undone. people make mistakes that they must learn from and move on. In my opinion, this is one of those times.


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

Lisa said:


> Oh, hang on...... you are the one with those many, many threads about women. And how very interesting your viewpoints on women always are!


Unfortunately, ****walking is not going to change the immoral world we are living in. ^


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

I think we are in need of at least one female mod. Half of SaS is unrepresented and I think it's part of the reason things like this happen. A few days ago, a perfectly legit thread discussing feminism was closed because apparently even mentioning feminism is ''starting a gender war'' while lots of more inflammatory threads specifically about portraying women in a negative light are allowed to continue. & then to top it off, there are mods making derogatory comments about women!


I don't and never have had any problem with Amo but I truly was upset at his use of that line. I'm glad he apologized. Time to move on. But, still, I think we could use a female mod.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

leonardess said:


> please, all, let's not turn this into another gender war between specific members of the forum.
> 
> the subject at hand here is a specific comment by a specific moderator, and what will be done about it.
> 
> sometimes, people say things that cannot be undone. people make mistakes that they must learn from and move on. In my opinion, this is one of those times.


I agree. Another gender war would not help.

It is just that I already had a hard time ignoring ShinAkuma and his threads. I did my best but that post of him tipped me over the edge. It was just one too many.



Tugwahquah said:


> Unfortunately, ****walking is not going to change the immoral world we are living in.


I don't quite know what to make of that. :stu


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

njodis said:


> Yes, people say stupid things, but when you're in a position of authority and power you have a responsibility to watch what you say. How could anyone possibly think that is an appropriate comment to make toward a member here- especially twice?
> 
> *Amocholes has a history of insulting comments, banning people he dislikes, etc. I think mm75 and the rest of the crew do a good job, but this guy is not fit to be a moderator.*


Agreed. Mods have to follow the guidelines just as any other member _in addition_ to the rules for moderating and implementing bans. If they violate those guidelines (which he has) and it's not just a one-time misunderstanding, they should be penalized in some way like we would if we break any rules.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

diamondheart89 said:


> I think we are in need of at least one female mod. Half of SaS is unrepresented and I think it's part of the reason things like this happen. A few days ago, a perfectly legit thread discussing feminism was closed because apparently even mentioning feminism is ''starting a gender war'' while lots of more inflammatory threads specifically about portraying women in a negative light are allowed to continue. & then to top it off, there are mods making derogatory comments about women!
> 
> I don't and never have had any problem with Amo but I truly was upset at his use of that line. I'm glad he apologized. Time to move on. But, still, I think we could use a female mod.


There used to be private groups on here and there was one women's group. It might be best to have discussions about feminism there. Public discussions on topics like that will always end in a gender war on the board. Always.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

Maybe he is hurt by the comments he has made, but I still wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

It seems Amocholes is the only moderator here who actually does something, although we could disagree with almost every action he's made. He needs to take a break from here, I think, and reevaluate his devotion to a website.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

I understand your frustration. however, arguing with that kind of viewpoint is like trying to reason with people who will swear up and down that the sky is yellow when it is clearly evident that it is blue.

I appreciate your agreement muchly.



Lisa said:


> I agree. Another gender war would not help.
> 
> It is just that I already had a hard time ignoring ShinAkuma and his threads. I did my best but that post of him tipped me over the edge. It was just one too many.
> 
> I don't quite know what to make of that. :stu


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Lisa said:


> There used to be private groups on here and there was one women's group. It might be best to have discussions about feminism there. Public discussions on topics like that will always end in a gender war on the board. Always.


Yeah, and I don't get it. Things like PUA, which clearly objectify women are allowed to be discussed but feminism isn't. Meh, whatever, I'm not looking to start a gender war but sometimes I feel like this site (like most of the internet) is a boys club. Anyway, I'm going to leave it there.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

Tugwahquah said:


> Any girl posting a pic of herself dressed provocatively over the internet should expect harassment.
> Yes its wrong, but that's just the way sex deprived people react to skin flicks.
> 
> Surly everyone knows this fact.


This is the sort of mentality that shifts responsibility from the harassers to the woman being harassed. This is very much a part of a victim blaming mentality that seems prevalent in society. As if it's her responsibility to anticipate how others will react to her photos and censor herself, while the people who are harassing her are expected to take virtually no responsibility in policing their actions. Being sex deprived is no excuse for harassing another person.

Seeing a woman in a revealing outfit is not an invitation to harass, or do worse to her. Surely everyone should know *this* fact. Unfortunately, many do not.

But anyway, back to the topic at hand. I don't feel like this is over, b/c the comment made was insulting to any rape survivors who post here. They deserve an apology as well.

I feel that if we have mods that make such comments (and apparently feel the need to post them not once, but twice) about victims of serious crimes....well, that sets a very dark and negative tone for the whole forum.

This incident was really upsetting to me on all accounts.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

au Lait said:


> *This is the sort of mentality that shifts responsibility from the harassers to the woman being harassed. This is very much a part of a victim blaming mentality that seems prevalent in society. As if it's her responsibility to anticipate how others will react to her photos and censor herself, while the people who are harassing her are expected to take virtually no responsibility in policing their actions. Being sex deprived is no excuse for harassing another person.
> 
> Seeing a woman in a revealing outfit is not an invitation to harass, or do worse to her. Surely everyone should know this fact. Unfortunately, many do not.*
> 
> ...


I agree with this.


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## wmw87 (Apr 20, 2011)




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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Rape - serious business.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

wmw87 said:


>


Usually this attitude is appropriate to online insults, but with this being an anxiety site with many people who may have been raped or assaulted looking for support here, things like this are damaging.


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

au Lait said:


> This is the sort of mentality that shifts responsibility from the harassers to the woman being harassed. This is very much a part of a victim blaming mentality that seems prevalent in society. As if it's her responsibility to anticipate how others will react to her photos and censor herself, while the people who are harassing her are expected to take virtually no responsibility in policing their actions. Being sex deprived is no excuse for harassing another person.
> 
> Seeing a woman in a revealing outfit is not an invitation to harass, or do worse to her. Surely everyone should know *this* fact. Unfortunately, many do not.


To clarify, I am a rape victim. I didn't ask for it. It took me several years to accept that what happened was not my fault. I'm just saying that "That" mentality of how the rapists think, will never go away. Certainly a woman doesn't EVER deserve to be raped.

Thanks for the apology Amocholes. I'm done here.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

The best way to combat ignorance is through education. Hopefully Amocholes will read Au Lait's explanation and understand why his comment was wrong.


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## melissa75 (Feb 16, 2010)

I hate to repeat what's already been said, but I sent a message to Drew this morning as you all should if you feel strongly about something a mod said that bothered you.

Also, an apology to Ballerina doesn't suffice obviously. I honestly do appreciate how difficult it is to make a public apology but what was said was very hurtful to a lot of people. I'm also concerned that the comment was initially posted in the moderator forum. Do all of the moderators find this type of mentality okay? 

Additionally, this forum is growing. We've retired 2 moderators and clearly don't have enough moderators and with all of the growth/constant "gender wars", we need more moderators, especially those of the female gender or that better support female issues. And soon. I feel that this is getting out of control and alienating females. I'm not sure what the guidelines are for being a moderator, but I would think that you need to be as unbiased and fair as possible. If you're unable to meet that requirement, then you shouldn't be a moderator. The members here are quite sensitive, so I would think this is a realistic expectation.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

^^^ I am sorry for what has happened to you, Tuwahquah. I too am a victim, by my own father. molestation and that sort of thing. 

the perpetrators of such crimes must be held accountable, no matter what their frame of mind. Doubly accountable, in fact. 

My meaning is not to turn this into a contest of who had it worse, or anything else, this is about an inappropriate comment by a moderator, a comment which has no business here, on this forum. it was inexcusable.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

Tugwahquah said:


> To clarify, I am a rape victim. I didn't ask for it. It took me several years to accept that what happened was not my fault. I'm just saying that "That" mentality of how the rapists think, will never go away.


I'm so sorry to hear that. :squeeze I understand all too well what you went through.

My post wasn't really directed towards you specifically, just towards the whole concept of victim blaming. Hopefully that mentality can be fought with education, like Neptunus said.


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## TinyFlutter (Jun 19, 2011)

It's disturbing to have encountered a similar remark made by a regular member, but now to see a mod on this forum make a similar (and more offensive) comment towards another female is upsetting.

I honestly hope that this type of behavior won't be further encouraged among other regular members as a result of this.


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## ambergris (Oct 15, 2010)

Even though it was directed at her, Ballerina was not the only person offended by that comment.

It has now become clear to me that if moderators are able to do things like this without any repercussions other than being told to say sorry, this is not an environment where I feel I can be right now.

I wish you all the best in your recovery.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

diamondheart89 said:


> Usually this attitude is appropriate to online insults, but with this being an anxiety site with many people who may have been raped or assaulted looking for support here, things like this are damaging.


Yea really. It seemed like sarcasm on their part heh.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

ambergris said:


> Even though it was directed at her, Ballerina was not the only person offended by that comment.
> 
> It has now become clear to me that if moderators are able to do things like this without any repercussions other than being told to say sorry, this is not an environment where I feel I can be right now.
> 
> I wish you all the best in your recovery.


sorry to see you go. all the best to you too.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

ambergris said:


> Even though it was directed at her, Ballerina was not the only person offended by that comment.
> 
> It has now become clear to me that if moderators are able to do things like this without any repercussions other than being told to say sorry, this is not an environment where I feel I can be right now.
> 
> I wish you all the best in your recovery.


I hope you change your mind. We need more good people like you on this forum.


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

leonardess said:


> I don't accept this. Not good enough.
> 
> it was inexcusable and as far as I'm concerned, this shows that a double standard, one for regular posters and one for moderators, exists. Also, as has been astutely pointed out, the comment concerns more than one person.
> 
> absolutely unacceptable.


Agreed.
With the 'double standards' part, too.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

ambergris said:


> Even though it was directed at her, Ballerina was not the only person offended by that comment.
> 
> It has now become clear to me that if moderators are able to do things like this without any repercussions other than being told to say sorry, this is not an environment where I feel I can be right now.
> 
> I wish you all the best in your recovery.


It's sad that people are leaving because of this.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

ambergris said:


> Even though it was directed at her, Ballerina was not the only person offended by that comment.
> 
> It has now become clear to me that if moderators are able to do things like this without any repercussions other than being told to say sorry, this is not an environment where I feel I can be right now.
> 
> I wish you all the best in your recovery.


I'm really going to miss seeing your posts, ambergris.  I wish you'd stay, but I understand why you'd want to leave (if that's what you choose).

I wish you all the best too. :squeeze


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

diamondheart89 said:


> Yeah, and I don't get it. Things like PUA, which clearly objectify women are allowed to be discussed but feminism isn't. Meh, whatever, I'm not looking to start a gender war but sometimes I feel like this site (like most of the internet) is a boys club. Anyway, I'm going to leave it there.


It's not really a boys' club, I think.

Sure, we only have male mods but when the women on here have a serious issue with something we tend to make ourselves heard. And the mods tend to listen. It might take a few days of explaining what we mean and how we see things but in my experience they come round to understanding our viewpoint. Things then usually end well.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

I hope so! I like that there are lots of strong women on here, and good men who support them.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

Innamorata said:


> I hope so! I like that there are lots of strong women on here, and good men who support them.


well said.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Would certainly like to see an active female moderator here because having only male moderators there will always be a level of ignorance at play with certain topics of discussion, just like there would be ignorance if all moderators were female. We need to find that balance.


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## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

What on Earth would posess you to say something like that...let alone think it? Do you realize the impact this can have on someone who is a victim? Some mistakes are in-excusable. 

A better apology would be your resignation from Moderator status and leaving this site...or having your posting priveledges revoked for life. It seems that you've got a few insults to hurl...your latest being in the PM you sent me about my remark to another member. Now who's the pot???


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

jhanniffy said:


> I'm afraid to give my opinion now on this whole thing.......


This is my fear. You should never be afraid to express yourself through words. (That said....oh SA!)

I don't believe in censorship, but words sometimes used spill actual blood, metaphorically and relatively.

This person should not be a moderator and should step down if not relieved of board authority by the forum owner.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Innamorata said:


> I hope so! I like that there are lots of strong women on here, and good men who support them.


Yup, for every ignorant guy there are many awesome, intelligent, supportive guys on here too. :yes


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

Am I the only person on this board who has never collided with Amocholes?


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## Jcgrey (Feb 5, 2011)

I have not. But I don't want to get involved in what's going on. I'm a coward sometimes I know.


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## Dreamscape (Sep 18, 2010)

I think that everyone should be able to recognize that comments like that are way out of line and shouldn't be tolerated, especially by a moderator on a support forum. :|


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

This isn't a gender thing. Men can be victims of rape as well!
Obviously, the victim is never to blame/responsible for assault.
I've never been assaulted, but have been bullied a lot, and it made me so furious when a therapist asked me, what I had done to make them bully me like that. Like it was my own fault, what they did to me.

I do believe I've seen a few threads on here about how to (hopefully) defuse bullying situations though, where people have genuinely tried to help others in a tough situation.
These have been filled with respect for the individual and not in any way blaming them for what they're going through or excusing the harm others are doing to them, even though they offer suggestions for how to avoid the harm by acting differently.
As long as the things said are said out of love and respect.

Like.. The 2 that bullied me were actually my 2 best 'friends' at that time and I'd keep hanging out with them all the time regardless.. :um
I'd get really mad if somebody said that made it my own fault or that justified what happened to me, but in hindsight I know it only made me more vulnerable and open to attack :\


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## Resonance (Feb 11, 2010)

Sigh.

I never wanted to see mods selected on gender - or race, religion or some other arbitrary characterisitic that has nothing to do with moderating, but hell maybe having a female mod would help keep things more civil around here. Certainly I can understand the frustration of women on this site when mods can be grossly sexist with total impunity and the only people to complain to are other men.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

One comment that was out of place which the poster admits was wrong and apologizes for, then why all this hate?


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## Dead Leaves (Aug 20, 2011)

alte said:


> One comment that was out of place which the poster admits was wrong and apologizes for, then why all this hate?


I imagine many of the users here have social anxiety disorder as a result of being raped. Rape victims often erroneously blame themselves instead of their abusers, a comment like the one Amocholes made is likely to stir up those feelings. It's a big slap in the face.

He's not just a "poster", he's a moderator.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

alte said:


> One comment that was out of place which the poster admits was wrong and apologizes for, then why all this hate?


Girls or guys that read that will think it is all their fault for being raped. It's not really a good feeling.


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

Dead Leaves said:


> I imagine many of the users here have social anxiety disorder as a result of being raped. Rape victims often erroneously blame themselves instead of their abusers, a comment like the one Amocholes made is likely to stir up those feelings. It's a big slap in the face.
> 
> He's not just a "poster", he's a moderator.


And he said the comment he made was uncalled for and not right. What else should a person have to do?

Also, he made a separate thread to apologize for the comment. That's quite a proper thing to do. How many trolls would have done this?


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## Dead Leaves (Aug 20, 2011)

alte said:


> And he said the comment he made was uncalled for and not right. *What else should a person have to do?*
> 
> Also, he made a separate thread to apologize for the comment. That's quite a proper thing to do. How many trolls would have done this?


It's not my place to say. But this discussion needs to happen, people are angry.


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## LifeGoesOn (Feb 7, 2011)

Milco said:


> Like.. The 2 that bullied me were actually my 2 best 'friends' at that time and I'd keep hanging out with them all the time regardless.. :um
> I'd get really mad if somebody said that made it my own fault or that justified what happened to me, but in hindsight I know it only made me more vulnerable and open to attack :\


I'm gonna hunt those two guys down and give 'em a bop on the head!!! :wife

:twak :twak


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

alte said:


> One comment that was out of place which the poster admits was wrong and apologizes for, then why all this hate?


Not hate, but feelings of anger and hurt. He apologized to one person, but obviously the comment in question was upsetting to more than just one member here. And there has been no additional apology to others who took offense, or word from Drew on this matter. To be frank, it feels as if the powers that be are just hoping it will blow over with the minimum action on the situation possible.

People have a right to voice how they feel on this. In fact, it's healthy to do so. If we all just kept these feelings in, that wouldn't be constructive, especially on a topic as serious and life alerting as rape.

But I think what is even more upsetting to people is that this doesn't seem like just a thoughtless comment, but a revealing peak into a very disturbing outlook on rape that someone who has power here possesses. And that has shocked many SAS members for obvious reasons.


----------



## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

^ likewise, this has nothing to do with anyone "hating" anyone. this has to do with a completely uncalled for inappropriate comment that is beyond any reason. in my opinion, it brought the forum to an all new low. I did find it shocking.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

au Lait said:


> But I think what is even more upsetting to people is that this doesn't seem like just a thoughtless comment, but a revealing peak into a very disturbing outlook on rape that someone who has power here possesses. And that has shocked many SAS members for obvious reasons.


^This. Perfectly said.


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## iamwhatiam (Mar 23, 2011)

Omg that was a terrible comment to make. Was that a just a terrible joke? If not you should probably take a good look at your views on rape... The fact that you have made that comment twice leaves me believe that in fact you do have a bit of a twisted view on stuff such as consent.


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

He said it twice?! Wow. That's kind of messed up.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

Glad that the mod apologized. It was obviously an extremely inappropriate remark.

I would give more of my opinion, but I am certainly not going to post it public. Let me just say I have not had any run-ins so far with Amocholes.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

leonardess said:


> I disagree. again, on a privately owned, moderated forum, such comments as the one referred to here, is uncalled for, particularly from a moderator, and beggars belief.
> I suppose if I walk down a dark alley whilst going home at night, I should "expect" to be raped, mugged, whatever, but that does not make it okay.


Uh no, it's not okay. That's not what he said.



au Lait said:


> The comment about rape and women asking for it needs to be addressed. It goes beyond just one user here, and extends to every rape survivor. It was extremely inappropriate.


Not to every rape survivor - you're turning it into that.
He made a remark about ONE incident. He was not thinking about dark alleys or all people who are victims of rape.

I can't believe what I am reading in this thread. First of all, a regular member would have gotten an infraction with an explanation, not a ban.
There is a lot of shunning of society due to our SA but you sound just like them with the accusations that are made in here. I find that equally disgusting.

There is a saying about getting the beam out of your own eye before going after the splinter in someone else's.


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## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

millenniumman75 said:


> Uh no, it's not okay. That's not what he said.
> 
> Not to every rape survivor - you're turning it into that.
> He made a remark about ONE incident. He was not thinking about dark alleys or all people who are victims of rape.
> ...


I'm not turning it into anything. It does extend to every survivor. Implying that women are asking to be raped is not ok and I am pretty disturbed that you would defend that. He didn't say one user in his comment, he said girls, meaning any woman who has been raped.

In addition, there are a few survivors in this thread who have expressed disapproval and discomfort with what he said. Are you trying to speak over them?

And to reply to your second remark, regular members are not moderators. I would think that mods would be held to higher standards, what with them holding the power and all.

Not even sure what you mean by saying I should get the beam out of my own eye. I'm not the one who made an inappropriate and offensive comment about rape.


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## Spindrift (Mar 3, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> There is a lot of shunning of society due to our SA but you sound just like them with the accusations that are made in here. I find that equally disgusting.


I'm not sure you're disgusted enough, considering that Amocholes felt comfortable enough to not only post his comment in the mod forum in the first place, but then post it for everyone else to see.

Did you not say something the first time? If not, why not? If a comment like the one your fellow mod made is bad enough to incur an infraction and a warning, why did Amocholes feel that it would be appropriate to dig it up and post it again? If he had been warned on the mod forum, surely he wouldn't have posted it again, right? Why didn't the other mods make it explicitly clear that his comment was wildly offensive?


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

The other day I read in the news that an attractive 20 year old women had sex with 3 teenaged boys aged,12, 14, and 15 respectively. I felt abhorred and realised that anyone from any background can be a victim or predator too, irregardless of sex.

With that said, these comments are pretty outrageous and one would think fairly disappointing coming from a mod.

Then again, I'm just a scumbag sleazy creep myself so I guess I'm not allowed to have a say anyway.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

au Lait said:


> I'm not turning it into anything. It does extend to every survivor. Implying that women are asking to be raped is not ok and I am pretty disturbed that you would defend that. He didn't say one user in his comment, he said girls, meaning any woman who has been raped.
> 
> In addition, there are a few survivors in this thread who have expressed disapproval and discomfort with what he said. Are you trying to speak over them?
> 
> ...


Excuse me? As if you have never said anything bad in your life. You know, we ALL have done bad things that we are not proud of - rubbing it in for five pages is a bit extreme. Ganging up and chiming in is nothing more than a group attack. He apologized - let it go.



Spindrift said:


> I'm not sure you're disgusted enough, considering that Amocholes felt comfortable enough to not only post his comment in the mod forum in the first place, but then post it for everyone else to see.
> 
> Did you not say something the first time? If not, why not? If a comment like the one your fellow mod made is bad enough to incur an infraction and a warning, why did Amocholes feel that it would be appropriate to dig it up and post it again? If he had been warned on the mod forum, surely he wouldn't have posted it again, right? Why didn't the other mods make it explicitly clear that his comment was wildly offensive?


To be brutally honest, Spindrift, I didn't even know the comment was made until it was reported from the main forum. I had no idea that he had posted it in the mod forum until he stated so - I did comment about it being inappropriate...but nowhere near the barrage that was posted here.



Nidhoggr said:


> The other day I read in the news that an attractive 20 year old women had sex with 3 teenaged boys aged,12, 14, and 15 respectively. I felt abhorred and realised that anyone from any background can be a victim or predator too, irregardless of sex.
> 
> With that said, these comments are pretty outrageous and one would think fairly disappointing coming from a mod.
> 
> Then again, I'm just a scumbag sleazy creep myself so I guess I'm not allowed to have a say anyway.


There is a 35-year old female teacher who got busy with FIVE high school football players near me - used alcohol and everything. Yeah, it goes both ways.

You are only a scumbag sleazy creep if you think you are one.


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## angus (Dec 18, 2010)

Amocholes said:


> I am taking this opportunity to apologize to Ballerina for the remark that I made yesterday. It was wrong of me to do so. I reacted poorly because I was being pushed on an issue that I though had been ended two months ago. I am sorry for what I said.
> 
> Don


Well well well, isn't this interesting 
This dude has banned me four times and I never got a chance to apologize! :mum
And I would like everyone to know that he has pulled pics that I have posted claiming they were to riskay and yet when I draw his attention to pic's that other people have posted that are just as bad he ignores me.
I would like to say more but I fear being banned, I don't have diplomatic immunity like some people :no


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## chinaski (Mar 1, 2010)

angus said:


> Well well well, isn't this interesting
> This dude has banned me four times and I never got a chance to apologize! :mum
> And I would like everyone to know that he has pulled pics that I have posted claiming they were to riskay and yet when I draw his attention to pic's that other people have posted that are just as bad he ignores me.
> I would like to say more but I fear being banned, I don't have diplomatic immunity like some people :no


I know, right?

We may all be guilty of a _little _"trolling," but it's all fun and games, and no one gets hurts. But this, yikes!, this is taking it too far. That's a pretty ****ed up thing to say.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

It is f***ed up and it's also f***ed up that people are defending what he said.


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

Innamorata said:


> It is f***ed up and it's also f***ed up that people are defending what he said.


The only poster I can see defending what he said was mm75

1 poster out of 41 doesn't exactly count as "people."


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

millenniumman75 said:


> Uh no, it's not okay. That's not what he said.......


I am extrapolating on the logic to be found in his comment. not a big leap at all.

I cannot believe your comments I've just found in this thread. I am very disappointed.


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

Not to excuse what Amocholes said, but lets not forget what Ballerina did to get this all started. A young beautiful girl posting a sexy pic of herself in fishnet stockings. I saw her pic.... "tisk tisk". Shameful was what I thought of it. This is an SAS site, not a porn site!

Oh, excuse me, Ballerina had the "am i wearing shorts under this sweater" look. Same goes.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Tugwahquah said:


> Not to excuse what Amocholes said, but lets not forget what Ballerina did to get this all started. A young beautiful girl posting a sexy pic of herself in fishnet stockings. I saw her pic.... "tisk tisk". Shameful was what I thought of it. This is an SAS site, not a porn site.


I don't recall when wearing hosiery ever became equal to having sex on camera.


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## WalkingDisaster (Nov 27, 2010)

Tugwahquah said:


> I would like to take this opportunity to say that I believe the photo thread would be more enjoyable, and fair for everyone, if the comments and quotes option was not allowed. Comments could be made through PM. I see many decent looking people in there that no one commented on. That must be a huge blow to those peoples when they are completely ignored. All the pretty, popular, and half dressed girls getting page after page of quotes is just really disgusting to me.


It seems a little extreme to ban compliments because not everyone recieves them. Yes, it can be unpleasant for people who don't recieve comments, but unfortunately that is life.

I'm not particularly attractive, and yes, I feel bad about myself sometimes, but I don't think it would be fair of me to try and make everyone else stop complimenting others on their attractiveness. What would that solve?

Also, I don't think many people on this site are "popular". If we were popular why would we need to visit this site? Many people enjoy the post a pic thread, it's been going for over a thousand pages I think, and it's a good way for people to see who they're talking to on the site, and most people on that thread enjoy giving/recieving compliments.


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## I Am Annie (Mar 8, 2011)

P.S - Bring on a female mod! A level-headed one if you can find her


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## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

In before Amocholes deletes this thread


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

rednosereindeer said:


> The only poster I can see defending what he said was mm75
> 
> 1 poster out of 41 doesn't exactly count as "people."





Tugwahquah said:


> Yes, the comment was uncalled for, he's apologized.
> 
> Any girl posting a pic of herself dressed provocatively over the internet should expect harassment.
> Yes its wrong, but that's just the way sex deprived people react to skin flicks.
> ...


Not exactly defending what he said, but still not great. Harassment should never be expected.



ShinAkuma said:


> guys, give him a break, he's deeply hurt for the comment he made, he has suffered enough, forgive him and get over it, seriously


Just incredibly stupid.



wmw87 said:


>


Idiotic and offensive.



alte said:


> One comment that was out of place which the poster admits was wrong and apologizes for, then why all this hate?


Seriously?



millenniumman75 said:


> Uh no, it's not okay. That's not what he said.
> 
> Not to every rape survivor - you're turning it into that.
> He made a remark about ONE incident. He was not thinking about dark alleys or all people who are victims of rape.
> ...


He said it about ALL women, not just one.

And I think a regular poster that said something so disgusting should get more than an infraction, never mind a moderator.

Is that enough people for you, or should I wait until more post?


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

I think millennium was speaking about the mob mentality going on in this thread. Millennium is not excusing Amocholes' behavior, and neither am I.

The bigger issue needs to be addressed, because this mentality goes on often here, and when a mod says it, it is bad for everyone, I certainly agree. 

However, it does no good to attack someone who was badgered repeatedly into saying something stupid and that they genuinely regret saying, and it certainly does no good to team up on the guy for making one careless remark that he regrets and that he said out of justifiable anger (yes, it was justifiable anger even though the response was certainly not) I truly believe this to be the case no matter what anyone else thinks/

Sorry if I am perceived as being insensitive. I realize rape victims are going to react very strongly, and they have every right to do so. However, I just don't truly believe that we are doing any good by putting all the blame on Amocholes. As long as it doesn't happen again, I think we should accept the apology.

And I'm not trying to be a brown-noser or anything. This is just my genuine opinion. I have no relationship with Amocholes whatsoever so I am not trying to take sides. 

Let's take this to another thread perhaps? 

And I agree with resonance, maybe it would be good to get a female mod in here or two, to balance it out. 

Ugh, I'm talking to much. I'm not coming back to this thread.


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## seychelle (Oct 23, 2009)

Yes, this board needs more women moderators!!! Was ignorants about the mods situation until now.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

Definitely needs women moderators, but the last thread about it was closed....by Amocholes for no reason. Doesn't really make me want to start a new one.

I think people are also angry because this isn't apparently the first comment that he's made like this, and he's still a moderator. Not that I can really talk about it because I only joined recently.


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## Syndacus (Aug 9, 2011)

We all say things out of line, some more potent and offensive than others. Some that are demeaning and wrongful especially from a person you kinda look up to as a person of well-meaning and level of respect. The comment disrespected a lot of people's views on the issue, it also disrespected the victims as well. No amount of apology can make this go away. If I was in your shoes I would quietly step down, take a break for awhile, then come back when all this has died down. I also wouldn't mind seeing a new batch of moderators just to give the existing ones a break. Having about 3-4 mods to govern a dozen forums is just poor planning.

Assigning mods to different forums and only giving them power to that forum, assigning a super moderator to govern all forums and make any final choices concerning a post or a user. 

Anyways, I doubt anything will change in the forum. Either you leave if you don't like it anymore or just deal with the whatever choices the administration makes.


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## caflme (Jun 7, 2009)

^^^^ I agree with Kev... this mob mentality attack is redundant and unnecessary in my opinion. I was sexually abused as a young teenager too (by my then brother-in-law) and I know it's serious and what he said is wrong... but it's getting to where I can't stand being on SAS anymore... not because of what Amo said... or other arguments going on... but because everyone is so quick to pick up on something ugly or negative or disrespectful and jump on it, elevate it, run with it... with almost gleeful abandon. I can nearly picture everyone around chanting fight fight fight.... or hit him, hit im again, kick him... and talking amongst themselves in the crowd and getting the fervor up... the bloodlust. The man screwed up, said the wrong thing, we ALL have done that at one point... none of us is perfect. One comment does not reflect all of who a person is... especially not if that comment was out of anger or frustration. I've said a LOT of stupid things when angry or frustrated... thank goodness it wasn't on this forum - oh yeah, it was once... and I got an infraction for it (deservedly). So I'm not taking Amo's side by stating all this... just that it should not have gone on for 6 pages... it should be over by now so that SAS can heal and get past it... healing is done on the inside... nothing on the outside can heal what happened... you can't walk around shooting arrows at anything that resembles what hurt you... that only perpetuates the hurt and anger.


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## caflme (Jun 7, 2009)

And I think it's very sexist to think that just because someone is a woman, that as a mod, they won't be ignorant... or sexist.... or impartial... has anyone looked at the women's movement lately - that will make you equally ill if the wrong one of them starts spouting off.

I think moderation should be based on things other than age, race or sex... I know a lot of men who understand women's issues and support them...


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## anonymous soul (Sep 8, 2011)

I will not defend what he said, and I disagree strongly with what he said. 

However, if we can't forgive others for their mistakes...then what hope do we have that ours will be forgiven?


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## caflme (Jun 7, 2009)

^exactly right


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

It depends on how bad the mistake is.


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## anonymous soul (Sep 8, 2011)

Innamorata said:


> It depends on how bad the mistake is.


I don't want to argue about this, and I can understand the sensitivity to this issue that some women have...just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

Forgiveness shows wisdom and understanding beyond yourself.


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## Innamorata (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm fresh out of wisdom and understanding, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?

Bored now, nothing's happening, it sucks.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I missed what he said. I've been gone recently.

However, there is no excuse for saying that, just because a person dresses a certain way, they deserve to be raped. That is just sick.

And if it came from this mod, I think he should be put on probation at the very least.


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## angus (Dec 18, 2010)

kev said:


> I think millennium was speaking about the mob mentality going on in this thread. Millennium is not excusing Amocholes' behavior, and neither am I.
> 
> The bigger issue needs to be addressed, because this mentality goes on often here, and when a mod says it, it is bad for everyone, I certainly agree.
> 
> ...


What??? that's happened to me and I was shown no sympathy, at the end of the day what's far for one is far for the other and I have demonstrated that that is not the case on this site. This site sux it's run by Nazi's.


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## anonymous soul (Sep 8, 2011)

Innamorata said:


> _*I'm fresh out of wisdom and understanding,*_ can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?


haha


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Whoa! :eek I just saw the comment that everyone is talking about.

This is sickening, and coming from a moderator, inexcusable.

I have tried my best to tow the line and be respectful on here. But if I had to put my thoughts into words, the mods would have no choice but to ban me!

This is supposed to be a family forum, right? *How would you like it if a man said to you, "hey, just because your daughter wears short skirts, that gives me an excuse to rape her, right?"

*_It's the same goddamn thing. 
_


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

A lot of members have been unhappy with Amocholes as a moderator. Maybe someone needs a little nudge off the power throne.


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## Hadron92 (Apr 17, 2009)

wow, you people are taking this too far. get a life. I've seen far worse being said on this site.


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## OldSchoolSkater (Jun 3, 2011)

I don't think you need to apologize to Ballerina, I think an open apology to all women (in general, but particularly on this forum) would be more appropriate. I would also like to point out that I have been temporarily banned by you for much less than that, and find it disturbing that you thought this was comment was alright to make.

EDIT: Wow, I just finished reading through most of this thread. It absolutely amazes me the mentality of many people. I agree that "ganging up" on someone on this website isn't a good idea, but I do think that when a moderator makes a comment like that TWICE that there really isn't anything you can say to make it right. I would urge the other moderators to evaluate the situation and decide whether or not Amochales should be allowed to continue as a moderator. Again, there have been several examples unfair and unnecessary bans/threats from Amochales, as well as several threads closed because they talk about women's issues and feminism, etc.

I know I shouldn't say anything, but from the sounds of it Amochales has some issues with women and I don't think we need anyone who constantly has clashed with several dozen members on here, especially with as distasteful comments as he has made before, as a moderator.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Amoch apologizing? What did I miss. I like arguing about rape.


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## anonymous soul (Sep 8, 2011)

VanDamMan said:


> Amoch apologizing? What did I miss. I like arguing about rape.


:spank No.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

VanDamMan said:


> Amoch apologizing? What did I miss. I like arguing about rape.


I'm thinking that humor? is misplaced here.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Atticus said:


> I'm thinking that humor? is misplaced here.


I might agree if I had a link to the conversation so I know what everyone is talking about.


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## Tugwahquah (Apr 13, 2011)

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f52/amochales-147698/


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## Misanthropic79 (May 6, 2011)

VanDamMan said:


> I might agree if I had a link to the conversation so I know what everyone is talking about.


Link @ page 2, Mercurochrome's post. Prepare for shock and awe, this thread is (understandably) heated as f**k.


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## Drew (Jan 23, 2006)

I will be addressing this publicly later today. I apologize for the delay of my response.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Misanthropic79 said:


> Link @ page 2, Mercurochrome's post. Prepare for shock and awe, this thread is (understandably) heated as f**k.


Thanks.

It was a dumb thing to say.His point was that clothes or lack of them can have unintended consequences. It was a poorly formed statement. But Amoch apologized for it. Issue is done. Not sure how this thread got beyond the first page.


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## OldSchoolSkater (Jun 3, 2011)

VanDamMan said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It was a dumb thing to say.His point was that clothes or lack of them can have unintended consequences. It was a poorly formed statement. But Amoch apologized for it. Issue is done. Not sure how this thread got beyond the first page.


Your comment, about "liking to argue about rape" seems very misplaced here (did not quote it here), as does this. I do not believe it was a poorly formed sentence, I found that it was as poorly formed thought that has no place on this forum, especially twice.

The fact that he has only apologized to Ballerina for his comment shows how oblivious he is to the potential results of such a comment. I don't care if a woman walks down the street naked alone at night, there is no excuse or justification for rape and no one here should ever point blame towards the victims. Yes, women should not put themselves in bad situations but at the same time you would think that men would be respectful, smart, and human enough not to do such a terrible thing no matter what. Rape, in any form, is absolutely unacceptable that is why it is called rape.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

OldSchoolSkater said:


> Your comment, about "liking to argue about rape" seems very misplaced here (did not quote it here), as does this. I do not believe it was a poorly formed sentence, I found that it was as poorly formed thought that has no place on this forum, especially twice.
> 
> The fact that he has only apologized to Ballerina for his comment shows how oblivious he is to the potential results of such a comment. I don't care if a woman walks down the street naked alone at night, there is no excuse or justification for rape and no one here should ever point blame towards the victims. Yes, women should not put themselves in bad situations but at the same time you would think that men would be respectful, smart, and human enough not to do such a terrible thing no matter what. Rape, in any form, is absolutely unacceptable that is why it is called rape.


I've had many disagreements with Amoch about his moding of my comments. I don't agree with many things he's done.

But I think you're using this as an opportunity to exact some revenge for him banning you or whatever he did. You're interpreting the literalness of his statement rather than the message. If he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of poor communication in this instance.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

VanDamMan said:


> I might agree if I had a link to the conversation so I know what everyone is talking about.


you have made a mistake. It would have been a wiser choice to look into the subject at hand before making a joke. This is one instance where I will say that a joke of any kind is inappropriate here.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

Drew said:


> I will be addressing this publicly later today. I apologize for the delay of my response.


thank you for your efforts regarding this matter, and I look forward to your response.


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## Misanthropic79 (May 6, 2011)

How is Ballerina handling this, does anyone know? Her response to the original comment was very passive, like the comment was that stupid to her she let it roll off like water off a ducks back and rose above it but it may have cut deeper than she let on.

I don't wanna bang on about this as there's enough fuel on this fire and my only suggestion would be to wait on Drew's word and then accept whatever it is and move on.

I DO endorse the request for a female Mod btw, it's only fair. Maybe something good will come of something bad.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

angus said:


> Well well well, isn't this interesting
> This dude has banned me four times and I never got a chance to apologize! :mum
> And I would like everyone to know that he has pulled pics that I have posted claiming they were to riskay and yet when I draw his attention to pic's that other people have posted that are just as bad he ignores me.
> I would like to say more but I fear being banned, I don't have diplomatic immunity like some people :no


You had multiple instances, not one.



Innamorata said:


> It is f***ed up and it's also f***ed up that people are defending what he said.





rednosereindeer said:


> The only poster I can see defending what he said was mm75
> 
> 1 poster out of 41 doesn't exactly count as "people."


Uh excuse me, I didn't defend what he said. I said the comment was inappropriate and he apologized. That was it. Stop making more out of it.



leonardess said:


> I am extrapolating on the logic to be found in his comment. not a big leap at all.
> 
> I cannot believe your comments I've just found in this thread. I am very disappointed.


Whose comments?



Tugwahquah said:


> Not to excuse what Amocholes said, but lets not forget what Ballerina did to get this all started. A young beautiful girl posting a sexy pic of herself in fishnet stockings. I saw her pic.... "tisk tisk". Shameful was what I thought of it. This is an SAS site, not a porn site!
> 
> Oh, excuse me, Ballerina had the "am i wearing shorts under this sweater" look. Same goes.


Actually, there was a similar picture a guy made that was removed with an infraction.



diamondheart89 said:


> I don't recall when wearing hosiery ever became equal to having sex on camera.


It doesn't. I don't understand why you just said this.


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## Lasair (Jan 25, 2010)

diamondheart89 said:


> Yup, for every ignorant guy there are many awesome, intelligent, supportive guys on here too. :yes


I second this


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## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

If he said it twice..then I don't know I think that's messed up. If it was just once then ok but twice?


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

this post demonstrates clearly to me that it is absolutely pointless to discuss this issue with you,however I am glad to see that you changed the wording of that last statement.

I await Drew's final response to the issue.



millenniumman75 said:


> You had multiple instances, not one.
> 
> Uh excuse me, I didn't defend what he said. I said the comment was inappropriate and he apologized. That was it. Stop making more out of it.
> 
> ...


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## OldSchoolSkater (Jun 3, 2011)

VanDamMan said:


> I've had many disagreements with Amoch about his moding of my comments. I don't agree with many things he's done.
> 
> But I think you're using this as an opportunity to exact some revenge for him banning you or whatever he did. You're interpreting the literalness of his statement rather than the message. If he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of poor communication in this instance.


And what was the message that I missed? That it is ok to blame victims of crimes? Also, I am not out for revenge at all. I simply do not agree with how he moderates this site so I asked if others had the same experiences. He then came to defend himself and said his comment, which he quoted himself saying in another topic as well. That is when not only myself but several others thought that this should be looked at more closely. He actually proved my point for me when all I really wanted to do was put in the frustration forum my experience and vent about it because it seemed unfair. It was moved out of there and became what it is. I don't want any revenge, have I asked for anything to come out of this? All I said was that I believe he owes all women, not just Ballerina an apology, as his comment affected more than just her and the fact that he can't see that shows his ignorance regarding what he said.

I'm not sure what revenge you are referring to?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

leonardess said:


> this post demonstrates clearly to me that it is absolutely pointless to discuss this issue with you,however I am glad to see that you changed the wording of that last statement.
> 
> I await Drew's final response to the issue.


It's pointless to discuss this issue at all, it is taken too many tangents. Nobody deserves to be attacked this badly.

About the post - so do I.


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## mind_games (Nov 30, 2008)

The comment was inappropriate and is indefensible.

This thread has been heavy on criticism of Amocholes so I'd like to say that apart from this comment (and I'm not downplaying the offensiveness or seriousness of this comment), I haven't noticed Amocholes being insensitive about women's issues. He's usually been pretty active about cracking down on those sorts of comments on the forum so this was a big (and puzzling) error in judgement from him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the issue of female mods Drew has publicly said he will soon be looking for both male and female mods.

I think the lack of female mods is a separate, unrelated issue. The presence of female mods wouldn't prevent such a comment being made again just as having male mods wouldn't prevent a female mod or female posters from making offensive comments against males. We only react to a post after it's come to our attention (ie after it's been posted _and_ noticed). We aren't aware of every post on the forum (or chat room).


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## ohgodits2014 (Mar 18, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> Uh excuse me, I didn't defend what he said. I said the comment was inappropriate and he apologized. That was it. Stop making more out of it.


Well, I didn't want to make more of it since I've never had real issues with Amo and I'd hate to rub in a mistake he's clearly regretted, but what he said was



> And girls wonder why rapists say "She was asking for it!"


And what you said was



> Not to every rape survivor - you're turning it into that.
> He made a remark about ONE incident. He was not thinking about dark alleys or all people who are victims of rape.


So yes, you were defending what he said. You were trying to make it something that it wasn't.


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm so torn on this.

Moderating a forum on the internet is a tough job...often thankless. 
You are basically signing up to take harassment from members that you have to "discipline". 
I think it's obvious a lot of the "hate" going on in this thread has a lot more to do with Amocholes saying what he said, as a moderator, more than what he said by itself.

If a regular member had said what Amocholes said, there's no way there would be 7 pages of people bashing him/her...but that's what happens when a person of authority says something controversial.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but considering this is a forum for people who have social anxiety...a problem that often causes us to say things we wish we hadn't said...I'm somewhat surprised at the number of people piling on, especially after an apology.

I disagree with Amocholes on the way I interpret his usage of power around here, but nobody deserves to be attacked this way, around here.
He's a moderator, but he also suffers from SA like the rest of us and this is a place for support. 
What he said was wrong, and the way we're all piling on and chastising him for that mistake is also wrong.


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## RockBottomRiser (Jun 5, 2011)

Can some kind soul tell me what was said?


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## Man Is An Island (Oct 12, 2009)

I think Amocholes should be punished for the sins of all men everywhere.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

rednosereindeer said:


> Well, I didn't want to make more of it since I've never had real issues with Amo and I'd hate to rub in a mistake he's clearly regretted, but what he said was
> 
> And what you said was
> 
> So yes, you were defending what he said. You were trying to make it something that it wasn't.


You already have - twisting my words around.

What I meant was that it was shortsighted - that was not "defending" him; it was stating fact and taking the words at FACE VALUE. There were NO LINES to read between. He NEVER said ANYTHING about dark alleys and all that. That was mentioned by other members - "filled in" to make it look worse than it already has.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

the cheat said:


> I'm so torn on this.
> 
> Moderating a forum on the internet is a tough job...often thankless.
> You are basically signing up to take harassment from members that you have to "discipline".
> ...


THANK YOU!!!!!
I have been trying to say exactly this and yet my words have been turned against me as well.


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## RockBottomRiser (Jun 5, 2011)

Now that i've brought up to speed on events...


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

Innamorata said:


> Not exactly defending what he said, but still not great. Harassment should never be expected.
> 
> *Just incredibly stupid.*
> 
> ...


I was the one who replied to ShinAkuma's post and I do not like him, his threads or his attitude towards women.

BUT: You aren't helping the situation here by launching personal insults. It will most likely cause you to get an infraction or a temporary ban. And the (male) mods would be right in issueing that.

Let's all chillax a bit.


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## CourtneyB (Jul 31, 2010)

Lisa said:


> Am I the only person on this board who has never collided with Amocholes?


One of a lucky few...



Dead Leaves said:


> *I imagine many of the users here have social anxiety disorder as a result of being raped.* Rape victims often erroneously blame themselves instead of their abusers, a comment like the one Amocholes made is likely to stir up those feelings. It's a big slap in the face.
> 
> He's not just a "poster", he's a moderator.


Thankfully, I am not one of those members, but I sincerely feel for those that have been a rape victim. I can only imagine the feelings of shock and rage his comment caused 

I don't agree with much of the comments I've seen him say, this being one of them... With that being said, I really have no reason or cause to jump on Amocholes so I will leave it be and watch from a distance.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

I don't see a mob of people attacking Amocholes. I do see many concerned about the nature of this board.

He said something horrible, but he is human.

Heck, I honestly don't like Amocholes (don't hate him, though), but I don't think he should be censored or kicked off the forum.

Maybe an evaluation of his status, and maybe an evaluation of all the moderators needs to take place.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Amocholes has given me enough breaks, when I'm flown off the handle and attacked people in anger, than any other mod. He's given me warnings instead of infractions.

I think he's a good person, but it's a common theory to think that just because someone is wearing sexy fishnet stockings, they deserve to be raped. :eek Sounds like that cop a year ago that said women should dress more conservatively, otherwise they will be raped (I believe he lost his job over his comments.)

Irregardless, I have said my piece. I only hope that *a fair and just action* will be taken by Drew over this. If that is revoking his mod privileges, so be it. If that is temporarily banning him, so be it. If that is doing something else, so be it.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> It doesn't. I don't understand why you just said this.


I said it because someone compared people wearing fishnet stockings in the pictures thread to porn, stating that it was ''shameful''. Which I do not understand at all.


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## OldSchoolSkater (Jun 3, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> Amocholes has given me enough breaks, when I'm flown off the handle and attacked people in anger, than any other mod. He's given me warnings instead of infractions.
> 
> *I think he's a good person, but it's a common theory to think that just because someone is wearing sexy fishnet stockings, they deserve to be raped*. :eek Sounds like that cop a year ago that said women should dress more conservatively, otherwise they will be raped (I believe he lost his job over his comments.)
> 
> Irregardless, I have said my piece. I only hope that a fair and just action will be taken by Drew over this. If that is revoking his mod privileges, so be it. If that is temporarily banning him, so be it. If that is doing something else, so be it.


Do you really think that this is a common theory? I certainly hope it is not, as you said the cop who made a similar comment got fired immediately for it.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

OldSchoolSkater said:


> Do you really think that this is a common theory? I certainly hope it is not, as you said the cop who made a similar comment got fired immediately for it.


Maybe not common. Perhaps that was a logical fallacy?

But still, a LOT of men think that. No, it's not the most healthy outlook, but I'd say that I've heard it more than twice.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

diamondheart89 said:


> I said it because someone compared people wearing fishnet stockings in the pictures thread to porn, stating that it was ''shameful''. Which I do not understand at all.


Fishnets are sexy. As someone who has a foot fetish, I can say this.

I don't agree that it's the same as porn, though.


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## Spindrift (Mar 3, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> Irregardless


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

WintersTale said:


> Maybe not common. Perhaps that was a logical fallacy?
> 
> But still, a LOT of men think that. No, it's not the most healthy outlook, but I'd say that I've heard it more than twice.


Where's this lot of men you refer to? Maybe I just don't hear blatant idiocy when stated.



WintersTale said:


> Fishnets are sexy. As someone who has a foot fetish, I can say this.
> 
> I don't agree that it's the same as porn, though.


Clothes are not the same as porn. Wow, thanks for clearing that up.


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## OldSchoolSkater (Jun 3, 2011)

Mercurochrome said:


> Where's this lot of men you refer to? Maybe I just don't hear blatant idiocy when stated.
> 
> Clothes are not the same as porn. Wow, thanks for clearing that up.


x2


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Why are you having a go at me? I just agreed with you!

Perhaps this thread needs to be closed? People are acting like idiots on here.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

If you're referring to me, I'm not having a go at you. I'm having a go at your WORDS in two of your posts. This is what this thread is all about. Semantics and ambiguity and humanity, etc. 

Stuff. Promises. Words. Things.

Apologies.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Mercurochrome said:


> If you're referring to me, I'm not having a go at you. I'm having a go at your WORDS in two of your posts. This is what this thread is all about. Semantics and ambiguity and humanity, etc.
> 
> Stuff. Promises. Words. Things.


This is what I said:

- _Some men_ think that women deserve to be raped, because of their clothing. *Not all men think that women deserve to be raped, because of their clothing.*
- I think that that argument is sick, and wrong, and unjustified.
- I don't support Amocholes in his thinking, I think it was sick what he said, and I think he should be given a suspension, at the very least. At the very most, his mod privileges should be removed. 
- Fishnet stockings are supposed to be sexy. They were created to be sexy.
- Wearing fishnet stockings, or short skirts, or...whatever, does not equal porn.
- Even if she did upload softcore porn, that still does not justify his comment.

*Now that I've cleared all that up, will you stop being such a retard?*


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

WintersTale said:


> *Now that I've cleared all that up, will you stop being such a retard?*


What is it with WORDS. I could get into how offensive using the word 'retard' to label someone who has disagreed with you, but that's another time and place.

People disagree. Live with it.


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## melissa75 (Feb 16, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> This is what I said:
> 
> - _Some men_ think that women deserve to be raped, because of their clothing. *Not all men think that women deserve to be raped, because of their clothing.*
> - I think that that argument is sick, and wrong, and unjustified.
> ...


Is it really necessary to call him (or anyone) names?

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked. It has definitely run its course a few times over.

I think we all understand now that what Amocholes said was in poor taste (as I'm sure he does, too). Drew said he was going to address it publicly later today. I think at this point, it's unnecessary to add any more feedback.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

WintersTale said:


> Maybe not common. Perhaps that was a logical fallacy?
> 
> But still, a LOT of men think that. No, it's not the most healthy outlook, but I'd say that I've heard it more than twice.


I believe you when you say you have heard it more than twice. Some men probably still believe that kind of thing. But in the 21st century it really isn't ok to voice stuff like that. It just isn't ok no matter who says it or how many say it. Women defend themselves against stuff like that with the ****walks. And I will go to the next one in my town.

It is unacceptable to say something like that.

At the same time I can see so many people who have had troubles with Amocholes coming out and joining in now just because they can.


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## estse (Nov 18, 2003)

I think we're trying to look for a moral high ground when there may be none. Words can hurt, even though some of us are taught from little that "words will never hurt me."

I still don't see this group/mob of people gaining up on one person. I just see people scared and/or scarred.

It's hard when people are afraid to voice what they feel and think. This is a SA forum, and we may know this all too well.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I apologize for the retard comment.

But honestly, I was just agreeing with everyone else, and Mercurochrome feels the need to personally attack me.

Maybe I'm oversensitive right now, but honestly, the last thing we need on a social anxiety support forum is personal attacks.

Anyway, I agree with melissa that this thread needs to be closed. Amo has apologized, and nobody seems prepared to accept his apology.


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## rumjungle (Feb 13, 2009)

I think enough has been said about the comment etc so I'm not going to add anything myself. I will say though that in defense of Amocholes in regards to his moderation, I have seen him defend women in the prevalent bitter dating threads that turn to blatant sexism/misogyny.

More mods and perhaps moderators having only certain boards to moderate would be a great idea though.


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## GunnyHighway (Sep 28, 2010)

All this thread is right now:































Just gonna wait for Drew's reply, anything that could have possibly been said about this has already been said so the bickering between people achieves nothing.


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## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

GunnyHighway said:


> All this thread is right now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im suprised it grew by 3 pages since I checked it this morning.

Im posting here because sometimes I kill threads. :um


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## Lasair (Jan 25, 2010)

Where is Drew?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

melissa75 said:


> Is it really necessary to call him (or anyone) names?
> 
> I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked. It has definitely run its course a few times over.
> 
> I think we all understand now that what Amocholes said was in poor taste (as I'm sure he does, too). Drew said he was going to address it publicly later today. I think at this point, it's unnecessary to add any more feedback.


It is now - this thread is WAY out of hand. I asked on two different occasions to simmer down, only to be told that I am out of line.
This has to stop and stop NOW! People are using it to do nothing more than spout off words, insinuating things, etc., and it is hurting EVERYONE in this thread. Including yours truly.

****Thread Lock Warning****


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## Drew (Jan 23, 2006)

I've posted a reply to Amocholes other thread here:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f24/an-apology-and-an-explanation-148058/#post1059378363

And additionally posted an announcement about allowing you to nominate new mods (I've already been searching for new mods behind the scenes since a moderator stepped down recently):
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f41/the-search-for-new-mods-148072/#post1059378350


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