# Which med for racing thoughts?



## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

I take fluphenazine (Prolixin) a typical antipsychotic with no side effects but afraid of long term treatment. is their anything else to help with racing thoughts?


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

Why are you on a typical antipsychotic, if you don't mind my asking? Psychosis? I'd never even heard of that drug before and had to look it up. I also read that this drug is commonly administered intravenously. Is that the case for you?

Racing thoughts can be helped with benzos and mood stabilizers, particularly the latter in the long-term, since they are a manifestation of mania or hypomania. Definitely not SSRIs or other A/Ds, though (or amphetamines, most likely).


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## californiakid18 (Jan 10, 2011)

^^^ amphetamines are great for racing thoughts its paradoxical.. stimulants focus your thoughts and let you organize them


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## Under17 (May 4, 2010)

The holy grail of course, opiates.


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## racingmind (Sep 26, 2010)

lithium will calm the bind for racing thoughts


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

californiakid18 said:


> ^^^ amphetamines are great for racing thoughts its paradoxical.. stimulants focus your thoughts and let you organize them


No, they're not. Racing thoughts are a clinical term for what happens in a hypomanic, manic, or mixed state. Stimulants should *not* be prescribed to someone who is currently experiencing hypomanic symptoms, whether dysphoric (mixed) or euphoric. That just fuels the fire. Instead, mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics, or benzos (or opiates, as mentioned above, but good luck with that) should be prescribed.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

Antipsychotics should never be prescribed unless it's to calm down dangerous psychotic behaviour.


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

Duke of Prunes said:


> Antipsychotics should never be prescribed unless it's to calm down dangerous psychotic behaviour.


That's a very broad and inaccurate statement. APs are sometimes used, quite effectively, for OCD and OCD-spectrum disorders (sometimes even "anxiety"-related symptoms like GAD, which may actually be a mixed state in some cases), particularly when nothing else works or as augmentation. Seroquel, in particular, is used for insomnia, usually under similar circumstances. APs are used for Asperger's and ASD-related stimming and other "overly" rigid behaviors and cognition.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

There's absolutely no excuse for prescribing such damaging drugs unless it's absolutely necessary. Most of those situations are rarely severe enough to warrant that kind of "treatment" (if you can call dumbing people down "treatment").


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

bmwfan07 said:


> That's a very broad and inaccurate statement. APs are sometimes used, quite effectively, for OCD and OCD-spectrum disorders (sometimes even "anxiety"-related symptoms like GAD, which may actually be a mixed state in some cases), particularly when nothing else works or as augmentation. Seroquel, in particular, is used for insomnia, usually under similar circumstances. APs are used for Asperger's and ASD-related stimming and other "overly" rigid behaviors and cognition.


Meh, their use for ocd and depression is retarded ****, my mum still suffers from tardive dyskinesia because of antipsychotics, she now often cries because she can barely talk on the phone, great depression relief ya rly, i posted this a while ago:

Refuse neuroleptics for 3 reasons:

1) Incosistent evidence based on small pilot study's wich hasnt been replicated in bigger study's AFAIK, as an example:


> J Clin Psychiatry. 2005 Oct;66(10):1289-97.
> Olanzapine/fluoxetine combination for treatment-resistant depression: a controlled study of SSRI and nortriptyline resistance.
> Shelton RC, Williamson DJ, Corya SA, Sanger TM, Van Campen LE, Case M, Briggs SD, Tollefson GD.
> 
> ...


2) Long term risks, wich includes a permanent movement disorder wich is no joke.


> Tardive dyskinesia and new antipsychotics.
> Correll CU, Schenk EM.
> 
> The Zucker Hillside Hospital, North Shore Long Island Jewish Health System, Glen Oaks, NY 11004, USA. [email protected]
> ...


3) Possibility of even higher risk when those drugs are being used offlablel, still need to check the full text of this one:


> Curr Drug Saf. 2010 Jul 2;5(3):263-6.
> Safety considerations of the use of second generation antipsychotics in the treatment of major depression: extrapyramidal and metabolic side effects.
> DeBattista C, DeBattista K.
> 
> ...


This "evidence" for OCD is also based on stupid pilot study's, the long term dangerous effects do NOT justify their use for OCD or depression, altough i admit that when your having parkinson like symptons you probably dont think about ocd as much!


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

bmwfan07 said:


> Why are you on a typical antipsychotic, if you don't mind my asking?.


 For racing thoughts and ocd symptoms. I also take it for hallucinations but it doesnt do anything for my delusions. ive been on fluphenazine for three years now and im worried about the potential dangers of movement disorders or diabetes.


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

Duke of Prunes said:


> There's absolutely no excuse for prescribing such damaging drugs unless it's absolutely necessary. Most of those situations are rarely severe enough to warrant that kind of "treatment" (if you can call dumbing people down "treatment").


What qualifies you to make that blanket generalization? I'm definitely not ignorant to the range of potential risks and side effects of anti-psychotics, but *MOST* people who take these don't these problems and are benefited by the drugs. If they weren't, they would not use or stay on them. I'm not saying they aren't overprescribed, but that doesn't prove that they shouldn't be prescribed at all.



crayzyMed said:


> Meh, their use for ocd and depression is retarded ****, my mum still suffers from tardive dyskinesia because of antipsychotics, she now often cries because she can barely talk on the phone, great depression relief ya rly, i posted this a while ago:
> 
> Refuse neuroleptics for 3 reasons:
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear about your mom's terrible experience... that is truly awful.

That said, it doesn't mean most people have those results, and the fact is, many of the folks who are on these drugs need them. The ones that don't and are on it for any significant loss of time with issues afterward are very possibly a result of medical malpractice and should deal with it as such.



MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> For racing thoughts and ocd symptoms. I also take it for hallucinations but it doesnt do anything for my delusions. ive been on fluphenazine for three years now and im worried about the potential dangers of movement disorders or diabetes.


Are your delusions OCD-based, or are they true delusions? That is, do you get an intrusive thought like, "My parents are poisoning me," which causes a spike in anxiety and constant rumination? Or, is it being *absolutely confident* that they are poisoning you. There is a major difference, as sometimes runaway OCD thoughts can turn into full-fledged delusions. The presence of hallucinations suggests that it's more of the latter, but it may not be.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> That said, it doesn't mean most people have those results


Offcourse, but what makes that risk acceptable? The risk is still pretty high for such serieus side effects.



> , and the fact is, many of the folks who are on these drugs need them.


Ppl with depression for example need them while bigger study's dont replicate the pilot study's?



> The ones that don't and are on it for any significant loss of time with issues afterward are very possibly a result of medical malpractice and should deal with it as such


I forese a great business for meds counteracting pdocs retardation.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> What qualifies you to make that blanket generalization? I'm definitely not ignorant to the range of potential risks and side effects of anti-psychotics, but MOST people who take these don't these problems and are benefited by the drugs. If they weren't, they would not use or stay on them. I'm not saying they aren't overprescribed, but that doesn't prove that they shouldn't be prescribed at all.


They are most often added to SSRI's, patients cant know wich med is working and will keep taking both.


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

A vast number of people who are having problems with antipsychotics aren't mentally fit enough to stop them and have them forced on them by carers, which is why the statistics don't really reflect the true nature of the drugs. They're only just starting to crack down on that. Before it was assumed that most of these people were just "stupid", but as soon as they take them off the antipsychotics, they "come back to life". It's mainly prevalent with old people who have dementia or other people with serious mental retardation (which is one of the most common off-label uses of antipsychotics, to control their "unpredictable" behaviour), which is why it's so overlooked.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

I vote for lobotomy for real mind numbing.


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

crayzyMed said:


> Offcourse, but what makes that risk acceptable? The risk is still pretty high for such serieus side effects.


Sometimes, these meds are about saving someone's life, or preventing them from being absolutely miserable--or a danger to themselves or others. I'm not advocating them as first-line medications; I'm simply saying that generalizing them as bad "except for dangerous psychotic behavior," as Duke of Prunes mentioned, is not really the answer. One does not need to be psychotic to require or benefit considerably from anti-psychotics.



> Ppl with depression for example need them while bigger study's dont replicate the pilot study's?


I don't think the vast majority people with depression need them, unless their depression includes a side order of psychosis.



> I forese a great business for meds counteracting pdocs retardation.


You should become a lawyer and start a law firm doing just this. You might just make a killing. There are some firms here that specialize in this kind of stuff.


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

Duke of Prunes said:


> A vast number of people who are having problems with antipsychotics aren't mentally fit enough to stop them and have them forced on them by carers, which is why the statistics don't really reflect the true nature of the drugs. They're only just starting to crack down on that. Before it was assumed that most of these people were just "stupid", but as soon as they take them off the antipsychotics, they "come back to life". It's mainly prevalent with old people who have dementia or other people with serious mental retardation (which is one of the most common off-label uses of antipsychotics, to control their "unpredictable" behaviour), which is why it's so overlooked.


Being unfit enough to reject medications and procedures does not apply to just psychiatric issues; it can be extrapolated to medicine at large. That does not mean the practice of medicating or operating without consent needs to stop; it's necessary unequivocally in many cases. It just means that doctors need to be better educated and less hasty in making their diagnoses and determining treatment options. The fundamental problem is not, in this case, the medication itself, it's the people administering the medication. There are risks and trade-offs in almost any significant medical procedure and disease treatment, and sometimes it can be argued whether a well-intentioned, but ignorant or wrong, doctor causes more harm than he does good. This problem can be minimized with appropriate education and knowledge, but to some extent, it is a permanent conundrum.


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## crayzyMed (Nov 2, 2006)

> I'm simply saying that generalizing them as bad "except for dangerous psychotic behavior," as Duke of Prunes mentioned, is not really the answer.


Id say its the answer, there are far better ways to augment antidepressants, right now we have people pulling off never before seen nonesense without any lack of pharmacology, the MAOI/stimulant/NRI combo should be used BEFORE antipsychotics, only after REALLY all options are tried then they can be an option imo, they are given WAAY to fast.



> these meds are about saving someone's life, or preventing them from being absolutely miserable--or a danger to themselves or others.





> The olanzapine/fluoxetine combination did not differ significantly from the other therapies at endpoint


I vote for the good old sugar placebo.



> You should become a lawyer and start a law firm doing just this. You might just make a killing. There are some firms here that specialize in this kind of stuff.


Would be too busy putting AMT back in clinical use, sounds good tough!


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

Nobody "benefits" from antipsychotics except for the people who have to care for the mentally ill and people with psychotic illnesses that can't be controlled by any other means. Some OCD cases I guess could benefit in the same way that schizophrenics benefit, but I'm sure there's better alternatives that don't involve simply dumbing the patient down to halt the thought patterns.

For the most part though, antipsychotics are prescribed for the benefits of carers because they make the patient stupid and docile while not really improving their mental state at all and in many cases, making them depressed and maybe even causing SA (D2 antagonism can cause SA).


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

bmwfan07 said:


> Are your delusions OCD-based, or are they true delusions? The presence of hallucinations suggests that it's more of the latter, but it may not be.


 Idea of reference is the root of my ocd delusions. If im anxious i begin with my repetitive thoughts of hearing things. their only symptoms.


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

crayzyMed said:


> Id say its the answer, there are far better ways to augment antidepressants, right now we have people pulling off never before seen nonesense without any lack of pharmacology, the MAOI/stimulant/NRI combo should be used BEFORE antipsychotics, only after REALLY all options are tried then they can be an option imo, they are given WAAY to fast.


Again, I'm not arguing that psychiatrists are not often irresponsible, ignorant, and overly hasty in their treatment protocol. In fact, that's my point: it's the practice that needs to change, not eliminating anti-psychotics as a treatment option unless "dangerous psychosis" is present.



Duke of Prunes said:


> *Nobody "benefits" from antipsychotics except for the people who have to care for the mentally ill and people with psychotic illnesses that can't be controlled by any other means.*
> 
> Some OCD cases I guess could benefit in the same way that schizophrenics benefit, but I'm sure there's better alternatives that don't involve simply dumbing the patient down to halt the thought patterns.


I never disagreed that APs are overprescribed or that they don't carry significant risks. That doesn't mean they should *only* be used in schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, because they confer benefits that, subjectively, outweigh risks in other disorders, too. If you've never had *severe* OCD or insomnia, to name a couple, and tried all meds in the book for those conditions, you really have no even anecdotal basis to make these generalizations. And on what scientific basis are you "sure there's better alternatives?" And on what basis are you claiming that antipsychotics "simply dumb the patient down to halt the thought patterns?" These are assertions you simply can't prove. They're opinions based on unfounded generalizations.



> For the most part though, antipsychotics are prescribed for the benefits of carers because they make the patient stupid and docile while not really improving their mental state at all and in many cases, making them depressed and maybe even causing SA (D2 antagonism can cause SA).


Again, another gross generalization. Show me evidence for APs causing either full-fledged depression or SA.


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## goodman (Oct 26, 2010)

Duke of Prunes said:


> Antipsychotics should never be prescribed unless it's to calm down dangerous psychotic behaviour.


I agree completely with this. Using anti-p's for minor things is like trying to hammer in a nail using a sledge hammer when a fricking normal hammer would do (i.e benzos, lithium or opiates). Anti-psychotics (especially typical nueroleptics) are not necesary as solution to insomnia or as an anxiolytic when there are viable alternative. Imo this is irresponsible prescribing by doctors but unfortunately thats what happens.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

so I shouldnt use an antipsychotic for racing thoughts. is there something the doctor isnt telling me?


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## bmwfan07 (Jun 3, 2007)

MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> so I shouldnt use an antipsychotic for racing thoughts. is there something the doctor isnt telling me?


Your doctor knows more about your particular situation than anyone here does; of that, I can positively assure you.

Your situation appears to have some complicating factors, such as some psychotic symptoms, that make the diagnostic and treatment pictures both less clear. I don't think it would be appropriate for anyone on the Internet to tell you, in this case, to disregard your doctor's advice or prescriptions and listen to them. And I hope no one has.


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## Sociald98 (Aug 21, 2012)

i take resperidone 4mg for racing thoughts and it does help. although it doesnt completely take it away i do however notice a big difference if i were to stop taking it


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## ricca91 (Mar 11, 2012)

Quetiapine is great! Especially if they keep you up at night... it doesn't zombify me like it does for a lot of people, but I have BP II, so it brings me back to earth when I'm in the sky!


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

high dose amisulpride
that is the AP with less side effects


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## wonderwoman57 (Mar 20, 2014)

I was given Ritalin for my racing brain, didn't help much. I'm currently on
Cymbolta-valium- serquel- neurontin 
for my mental alone... don't help my racing thoughts or mood swings at all
Im exhauseted and tired of being a Ginnie pig
:mum


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## PaTrYcK (Jun 2, 2013)

I have found that a small dose of Xanax or pretty much any benzo will calm my thoughts down enough to function properly. If you have a problem with drug dependency you may want to find an alternative, it is very habit forming. I've heard that Lithium is effective.


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