# Really tired of double standards when it comes to men and women



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

It's a big problem because it's not right. The main thing I want to address is the sex thing. It is clearly obvious that women are more judged for their sexual desires and acts than men are, at least in Western Societies. But it's not like only men are attacking women all the time for their sexual desire either, as women have also adopted this view and discriminate their own gender just as much as some men! You hear it all the time in the words "****s", "*****", etc.

The problem in holding women to be more "innocent" and more discriminated for their sexual desires than men is not healthy nor realistic in my opinion. It's not healthy because all it does is feed people with insecurities. Many women resort to lying about their sexual desires/acts/episodes, while men are left more off the hook?

I'm not saying people shouldn't keep these things private if they want to, but I just think there is an unhealthy double standard for women with regard to how open they can be with their sexuality, and because of this I think it is perpetuating the insecure being insecure and the discrimination to be exaggerated. I also think it makes an unrealistic viewpoint of women. Because after all, women like sex too, and if people can't get over that without resorting to name calling then they really need to ask themselves why the urge to hate bash?

I really want to keep this thread civil because I think it is an important topic, so please reframe from name calling or being stupid. Let's have a free and friendly discussion here...

Am I off my mark when I say there is a double-standard and a difference regarding women's sexual openness and a man's? I wouldn't bring this up if I didn't think there was. Doesn't this seem like a problem? Or am I just living in a bubble?


----------



## Unluckyiguess (Apr 3, 2013)

bwidger85 said:


> It's a big problem because it's not right. The main thing I want to address is the sex thing. It is clearly obvious that women are more judged for their sexual desires and acts than men are, at least in Western Societies.


Completely disagree. I can't let you believe this. Women have it better as far as sexual freedom more than ever in Western societies. In the past it was less to do with men holding women down and more to do with religion depending where on the globe you lived.



bwidger85 said:


> The problem in holding women to be more "innocent" and more discriminated for their sexual desires than men is not healthy nor realistic in my opinion. It's not healthy because all it does is feed people with insecurities. Many women resort to lying about their sexual desires/acts/episodes, while men are left more off the hook?


Where do you see this at? Even on this site I rarely see anyone ever tell women about something they need to change about themselves regarding sex or men. Even when the situation was one that could have been avoided by her. Both men and women have kinky things they like and both of us usually don't use it as a conversation starter.

I agree there is a double standard. Men are expected to approach, pay for the date and be confident ect.


----------



## Putin (May 21, 2013)

I would say women are encouraged to express their sexual desire, and female sexuality is put on a pedestal in our society, while male sexuality is seen as disgusting and depraved, and men are shamed for expressing their sexual desire.


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I thought this would happen :lol

*sits back* opcorn

sorry op.


But I do agree with you OP on the whole. Women are judged more for having a lot of partners than men are. I could say more but I'm tired and cba, but I feel that's what you were mostly getting at. Obviously men have issues too. There are many threads on that subject though.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

Putin said:


> I would say women are encouraged to express their sexual desire, and female sexuality is put on a pedestal in our society, while male sexuality is seen as disgusting and depraved, and *men are shamed for expressing their sexual desire*.


This. Society has been flipped. Now male sexuality is repressed and female sexuality is celebrated.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Unluckyiguess said:


> Completely disagree. I can't let you believe this. Women have it better as far as sexual freedom more than ever in Western societies. In the past it was less to do with men holding women down and more to do with religion depending where on the globe you lived.
> 
> Where do you see this at? Even on this site I rarely see anyone ever tell women about something they need to change about themselves regarding sex or men. Even when the situation was one that could have been avoided by her. Both men and women have kinky things they like and both of us usually don't use it as a conversation starter.
> 
> I agree there is a double standard. Men are expected to approach, pay for the date and be confident ect.


I suppose dumb "rules" and expectations go both ways, and I can see why you think men also have a double standard, as we do in certain areas. I kind of just wanted to discuss the **** shaming, but you've brought me back to center haha. Both genders deal with their own issues. What's new?

Men are shamed for expressing their sexual desire as well. Touche.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Putin said:


> I would say women are encouraged to express their sexual desire, and female sexuality is put on a pedestal in our society, while male sexuality is seen as disgusting and depraved, and men are shamed for expressing their sexual desire.


Yeah, this is true to an extent.


----------



## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

Putin said:


> I would say women are encouraged to express their sexual desire, and female sexuality is put on a pedestal in our society, while male sexuality is seen as disgusting and depraved, and men are shamed for expressing their sexual desire.


In some cases this is true. If a woman were to talk dirty to a guy she'd just met he'd probably have a great time listening to it and get turned on while if a guy did that to a woman he just met she'd probably find it disgusting and he'd probably be called a pig and she'd be grossed out.


----------



## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

arnie said:


> This. Society has been flipped. Now male sexuality is repressed and female sexuality is celebrated.


It's starting to seem that way. However people still shame a woman for being promiscuous by calling her a s***.


----------



## alienbird (Apr 9, 2010)

The guys in this thread...

You think women aren't shamed for their sexuality? Are we living on a different planet? o.o


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Unluckyiguess said:


> Where do you see this at? Even on this site I rarely see anyone ever tell women about something they need to change about themselves regarding sex or men. Even when the situation was one that could have been avoided by her. Both men and women have kinky things they like and both of us usually don't use it as a conversation starter.


Where do I see this? Everywhere. I see it at work, I hear it when girls talk about other girls, I see it on these forums as soon as a girl says she had some sexual experience that makes some guy/girl feel the need to lash out and **** shame. I see it in places like the bar when girls try not to look "****ty" in front of their friends; I see it when I want to have sex with a girl and she doesn't want to feel like a ****. It's a big insecurity that doesn't need to be there, and society does encourage the discrimination because you'll often will see back lash if a girl expresses her self to be a "*****". Guys hardly get this back lash.

But before you think I'm "white knighting", I'm not. lol. I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of this whole thing, and I also think men face similar stupid instances now that this was brought back to my attention.

One of the worst things you can call a girl is a "****" or a "*****". There is a reason for this. Insecurity, and it's perpetuated. Both men and women would benefit by not being labeled these things, because women wouldn't have to deal with the unnecessary guilt, and men could learn that women are human too.

But now that I think about it more, it is kind of funny how girls can dress all revealing and dance all seductive and it is seen as more "normal", but I'm sure there is a double-side to this too. Haha, society and it's views are strange sometimes...


----------



## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Pretty funny how fast people are to resort to "white knight" and pretending that female sexuality is completely free. There are big problems here in regards to things like perception and religion. especially for people who aren't models or celebrities. I never hear about men the kind of thing I heard about a female celebrity just this day (pretty much all "walking STD" jokes, and you should be able to infer what that implies). We should also make the distinction that ogling Kate Upton's assets isn't akin to celebrating female sexuality.

There are definitely double standards against us too, but I wouldn't say we're shamed. At least, listening to the radio and surfing the Internet, you hear things and they certainly aren't guys being shamed of talking about what they want to do or have done to some chick. On the contrary, we are expected to be sex-crazed.


----------



## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

arnie said:


>


I laugh every time I see this picture.

I don't believe that I'm any kind of white knight, but I do think that women are judged a lot more than guys for sleeping around. This is one of the things that they have it worse for. It's becoming more of the norm for them to have sex with whoever they want and not feel ashamed about admitting it, though.

I disagree with the OP when he says that this is a big problem. Why? If women want to have sex with a lot of people, she is totally free to do that. In the majority of western society, of course. Nobody cares if they sleep with loads of guys. Maybe less guys would date her, but she knows that's the risk when you sleep around. Society won't change in that regard. People see women as the one's that withhold sex. Men have to earn it. If they give it out too easily, they can potentially be called a ****. I have also recently heard people start calling men ****s. Equality, I guess.

On the flip side, men are made fun of for being virgins and having a lack of experience. It's not going to change. Is it a serious problem that needs to be addressed? Not really, in my opinion. Both aren't great, but that's life. I see no point in complaining about things like this. There are far more important matters that need addressing.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Nathan18 said:


> I laugh every time I see this picture.
> 
> I don't believe that I'm any kind of white knight, but I do think that women are judged a lot more than guys for sleeping around. This is one of the things that they have it worse for. It's becoming more of the norm for them to have sex with whoever they want and not feel ashamed about admitting it, though.
> 
> ...


I see what you mean when you say "that's life". There are these kinds of stupid instances happening everywhere regardless of what topic it is. That really_ is_ life. I do think it is a bit of a concern though because there does seem to be a wide affect on many women regarding this issue; it's everywhere. Obviously, some don't care and will do/say what they want. I suppose this argument may be a little childish, like high school stuff? Idk. It bothers me, what can I say? lol. But I think it bothers me because it direct ties to some of my own insecurities tbh. Just 'cause it bothers me doesn't mean it really might be a big of an issue as I think, so yeah, I hear ya there.


----------



## Gwynevere (Oct 6, 2013)

Okay I think there's some confusion about female sexuality here. When you say female sexuality is put on a pedestal or encouraged rather than shamed you don't actually mean female SEXUALITY, you mean female SEXINESS. What is encouraged and promoted is women acting in accordance with male fantasy, however women actually talking about or doing things that are actually sexually enjoyable for us is immediately ****-shamed as the OP described.

*What society wants is sexy virgins, not women actually expressing their sexuality.*


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Is this thread sexist?


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I have a feeling I've read this thread before.


----------



## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

Plenty of society don't want sexy virgins. Virgins don't have sex. There are guys that look for women to have sex with every Friday and Saturday night. This wouldn't be possible if none of them put out. 

Although, if the 80-20 ratio is to be believed, it is only a minority that would be concerned with more women that wouldn't put out.


----------



## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

Gwynevere said:


> *What society wants is sexy virgins, not women actually expressing their sexuality.*


And you know what society wants at the tender age of 19? This is completely untrue. There seems to be such a fixation on virginity on this forum. Get over it people!!


----------



## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Gwynevere said:


> *What society wants is sexy virgins, not women actually expressing their sexuality.*


I think this is closer to the truth yeah. Society wants sexy virgin women and confident stud-like dudes who have slept around - well the two kinda contradict, so unless the guys are screwing each other... :teeth


----------



## Morumot (Sep 21, 2011)

Paper Samurai said:


> I think this is closer to the truth yeah. Society wants sexy virgin women and confident stud-like dudes who have slept around - well the two kinda contradict, so unless the guys are screwing each other... :teeth


This is true, which is why I guess there would be 'bad girls' you would sleep with and 'good girls' you would marry but this kind of thinking I think is out of date.

I notice when people have opinions about gender issues, they stick to one gender. Gender equality isn't really going anywhere if there's two teams sticking to their own issues, but that is my opinion.


----------



## midnightson (Nov 6, 2013)

Women by nature are supposed to be selective in picking a mate to ensure good genetic health for their offspring. When a woman sleeps around it sets off an alarm, consciously or subconsciously, in most people that says she doesn't care about the health of her children, also to men that she may be impregnated by another guy and ruin their opportunity to spread their genes. Of course people can out think and be trained away from this instinct, I'm just saying the mentality doesn't _entirely_ spring from cultural influence. Males trying to stop females from having sex with other males has been seen in dolphins too.


----------



## Gwynevere (Oct 6, 2013)

Morumot said:


> this kind of thinking I think is out of date.





midnightson said:


> Women by nature are supposed to be selective in picking a mate to ensure good genetic health for their offspring. When a woman sleeps around it sets off an alarm


I think it's funny to see these two posts coming only a few minutes apart.:teeth


----------



## Morumot (Sep 21, 2011)

Gwynevere said:


> I think it's funny to see these two posts coming only a few minutes apart.:teeth


What I meant was it should be out of date but obviously it still exists -.-


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Morumot said:


> What I meant was it should be out of date but obviously it still exists -.-


I love your avatar.


----------



## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

All the men in this thread who say women don't get judged about sex - where are you living? I'd like to move there.



Nathan18 said:


> I don't believe that I'm any kind of white knight, but *I do think that women are judged a lot more than guys for sleeping around. *This is one of the things that they have it worse for. It's becoming more of the norm for them to have sex with whoever they want and not feel ashamed about admitting it, though.
> 
> I disagree with the OP when he says that this is a big problem. Why? If women want to have sex with a lot of people, she is totally free to do that. In the majority of western society, of course. *Nobody cares if they sleep with loads of guys.* *Maybe less guys would date her, but she knows that's the risk when you sleep around.*


You kind of contradicted yourself here, man.



Nathan18 said:


> People see women as the one's that withhold sex. Men have to earn it. If they give it out too easily, they can potentially be called a ****.


This is something I've noticed a lot and it really bothers me. It rests on the idea that women don't want or enjoy sex, or at least that they don't want sex as much as men do. Which, you know, just isn't true. If a woman wants sex as much as a man does, why should _she_ be the one who's expected to put the brakes on and say no to it? He can go full steam ahead with his desires, so why is she expected to be putting obstacles in place between herself and something she wants? It doesn't make sense.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

lisbeth said:


> This is something I've noticed a lot and it really bothers me. It rests on the idea that women don't want or enjoy sex, or at least that they don't want sex as much as men do. Which, you know, just isn't true. If a woman wants sex as much as a man does, why should _she_ be the one who's expected to put the brakes on and say no to it? He can go full steam ahead with his desires, so why is she expected to be putting obstacles in place between herself and something she wants? It doesn't make sense.


I agree. But, from the way I see it, a lot of women themselves are affected by this stereotype (not sure if that is the right word to use or not), and you can tell by the way many are ashamed to be so forthcoming about their desires or experiences to others; some won't even act on their desires because of this thinking.

I wonder if this is affecting only certain women; susceptible women, because there is also a lot of evidence that shows women act completely different as well? I would assume a more liberated woman wouldn't really give a crap what people thought about her sexual desires and actions.


----------



## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

lisbeth said:


> You kind of contradicted yourself here, man.


I stand by what I posted. Women get judged for it. Although, nobody is going to bring an angry mob to her house if she does sleep with a lot of men. I'm comparing the western way to how some countries in the east handle this. It's not something that is really tolerated in some countries. Women are allowed to do what they want in the UK/US (and the majority of the western world).



lisbeth said:


> This is something I've noticed a lot and it really bothers me. *It rests on the idea that women don't want or enjoy sex, or at least that they don't want sex as much as men do.* Which, you know, just isn't true. If a woman wants sex as much as a man does, why should _she_ be the one who's expected to put the brakes on and say no to it? He can go full steam ahead with his desires, so why is she expected to be putting obstacles in place between herself and something she wants? It doesn't make sense.


Science tells us that men generally have higher sex drives than women. I don't agree with your statement. Before contraception and abortion were created, I think I understand why people thought this way. Women could easily get pregnant, so they had to be careful with who they had sex with. We now have ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies. People haven't moved on from the olden day way of thinking.

As we all know, women that sleep around are generally held in a lower regard. I don't have a real answer as to why that is. That's just the way society thinks. I don't think that it will ever change. Men are starting to be called ****s now. That never used to happen before. **** is still a word that will be fired at a woman as an insult. Virgin is the opposite for men. Both can be used to offend the other way around, but rarely does it happen.


----------



## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

bwidger85 said:


> I agree. But, from the way I see it, a lot of women themselves are affected by this stereotype (not sure if that is the right word to use or not), and you can tell by the way many are ashamed to be so forthcoming about their desires or experiences to others; some won't even act on their desires because of this thinking.
> 
> I wonder if this is affecting only certain women; susceptible women, because there is also a lot of evidence that shows women act completely different as well? I would assume a more liberated woman wouldn't really give a crap what people thought about her sexual desires and actions.


You're right. A lot of women are affected by the stereotype that women are less sexual, and really internalise it to the point where they _are_ less sexual. They really repress their own desires so much because there's so much shame and guilt attached to having them.

I don't think it's a case of it only affecting susceptible women, though. I think it's more to do with things like upbringing, experiences, the values you've grown up with... and also I guess whether you've had much exposure to anything contradicting it, which a lot of women haven't. I know I wouldn't be nearly so comfortable talking about sex without the internet telling me it's normal and feminism telling me it's okay.

A liberated woman might give _less_ of a crap, but we're all human, we all give a crap. It's not realistic not to care at all what people think, because judgement leads to social rejection and other negative conseqences.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

lisbeth said:


> You're right. A lot of women are affected by the stereotype that women are less sexual, and really internalise it to the point where they _are_ less sexual. They really repress their own desires so much because there's so much shame and guilt attached to having them.
> 
> I don't think it's a case of it only affecting susceptible women, though. I think it's more to do with things like upbringing, experiences, the values you've grown up with... and also I guess whether you've had much exposure to anything contradicting it, which a lot of women haven't. I know I wouldn't be nearly so comfortable talking about sex without the internet telling me it's normal and feminism telling me it's okay.
> 
> A liberated woman might give _less_ of a crap, but we're all human, we all give a crap. It's not realistic not to care at all what people think, because judgement leads to social rejection and other negative conseqences.


I agree, and some valid points here. Makes me wonder how much I would be liberated to talk about my sexual experiences if I didn't have support of many men movements or of society in certain aspects? Religious beliefs play a huge role in this as well.


----------



## Putin (May 21, 2013)

I think so called "**** shaming" harms men more than women. The basic premise of **** shaming is that sexual contact with a male is enough to decrease the worth of a female, which I agree sucks for women, but... what does that say about men?


----------



## Gwynevere (Oct 6, 2013)

Putin said:


> I think so called "**** shaming" harms men more than women. The basic premise of **** shaming is that sexual contact with a male is enough to decrease the worth of a female, which I agree sucks for women, but... what does that say about men?


I don't think you needed to say "more", can't you just say it harms both and agree that it's got to go?

But to add to that, a part of this is that we're often taught from a young age not just that we need to control and suppress our own sexuality, but also that men's sexuality is not controllable by them and that it's our responsibility to keep men from doing sexual things by saying no, rather than men deciding for themselves whether they want to have sex or not.


----------



## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

Nathan18 said:


> I stand by what I posted. Women get judged for it. Although, nobody is going to bring an angry mob to her house if she does sleep with a lot of men. I'm comparing the western way to how some countries in the east handle this. It's not something that is really tolerated in some countries. Women are allowed to do what they want in UK/US (and the majority of the western world).


But in these countries, nobody's going to bring an angry mob to your house if you do anything.



Nathan18 said:


> *Science tells us that men generally have higher sex drives than women. I don't agree with your statement.* Before contraception and abortion were created, I think I understand why people thought this way. Women could easily get pregnant, so they had to be careful with who they had sex with. We now have ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies. People haven't moved on from the olden day way of thinking.
> 
> As we all know, women that sleep around are generally held in a lower regard. I don't have a real answer as to why that is. That's just the way society thinks. I don't think that it will ever change. Men are starting to be called ****s now. That never used to happen before. **** is still a word that will be fired at a woman as an insult. Virgin is the opposite for men. Both can be used to offend the other way around, but rarely does it happen.


Science isn't really as objective as people think - it's still affected by human biases. It also isn't really able to take into account, for instance, the difference between nature and nurture. No person exists who hasn't been affected by a culture one way or the other. Either way, even if biologically speaking men do have a higher sex drive than women - which is not something I take as given - there's no denying that many (most? idk) women have a strong sex drive. So my point still stands that women are the ones expected to be placing artificial boundaries between themselves and something that _they_ want.

I don't really have any answer for the rest of your post. Women who sleep around are held in less regard, it's the way society thinks, etc, it's all true. That is how it is. I wish it wasn't how it is, though, and I have hope that it's going to change in the next few decades.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Gwynevere said:


> I don't think you needed to say "more", can't you just say it harms both and agree that it's got to go?
> 
> But to add to that, a part of this is that we're often taught from a young age not just that we need to control and suppress our own sexuality, but also that men's sexuality is not controllable by them and that it's our responsibility to keep men from doing sexual things by saying no, rather than men deciding for themselves whether they want to have sex or not.


Lol. This is ironic you say this because you can also say that many men are so aggressive with sex because we think we have to be with more "innocent" girls who need to be encouraged. I know from personal experience, and from actually being involved in a lot of pickup forums, that many men feel like it is their duty to be aggressive in this aspect because the women are afraid of being ****-shamed (in other words, a lot of girls want it but will put up "token resistance"). I actually do think this is the case for a lot of women, as they don't want to appear that way. But yeah, it is a bad thing all the way around in my opinion.

But once again, anyone can come up with counter examples, so it is probably best to say that people are individuals, but this ****-shaming thing does seem to affect way more women than men, for sure.


----------



## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

lisbeth said:


> But in these countries, nobody's going to bring an angry mob to your house if you do anything.


I thought it was an offence in some countries to sleep with guys that you're not married to? I thought it was mostly based around religion. Honour killings and all that jazz happen.



lisbeth said:


> Science isn't really as objective as people think - it's still affected by human biases. It also isn't really able to take into account, for instance, the difference between nature and nurture. No person exists who hasn't been affected by a culture one way or the other. Either way, even if biologically speaking men do have a higher sex drive than women - which is not something I take as given - there's no denying that many (most? idk) women have a strong sex drive. So my point still stands that women are the ones expected to be placing artificial boundaries between themselves and something that _they_ want.
> 
> I don't really have any answer for the rest of your post. Women who sleep around are held in less regard, it's the way society thinks, etc, it's all true. That is how it is. I wish it wasn't how it is, though, and I have hope that it's going to change in the next few decades.


Well, I take what science suggests as the truth. Obviously not everybody is the same. Men just generally are and the averages are used. I don't know if women have high sex drives or not. On average. I guess it depends on what a high sex drive is classified as. Maybe some are suppressing the urges, because of the **** label? You hear a lot about guys that want to have sex, but their girlfriends don't want to. Rarely is it the other way around.

I don't think that it ever will. Men and women are not the same. We also will never be equal on everything. This is just one of those things that is not the same.


----------



## lisbeth (May 18, 2012)

Nathan18 said:


> I thought it was an offence in some countries to sleep with guys that you're not married to? I thought it was mostly based around religion. Honour killings and all that jazz happen.


To clarify, by 'those countries' I meant the UK and USA. As in it isn't really particularly telling that nobody brings a mob to your house for sleeping around, because there's pretty much nothing that _is_ going to bring a mob to your house.



Nathan18 said:


> Well, I take what science suggests as the truth. Obviously not everybody is the same.


Depends what kind of science it is. If it's Daily Mail evolutionary psychology 'science' where the study had a sample size of about 500, I don't really take it seriously. Obviously in a perfect world science would be purely objective, but in reality, it gets polluted by all sorts of things... I mean, basically it's impossible for it to entirely escape the biases and assumptions present in the society it's taking place in. There's all the issues of how they choose what data to collect, how to collect it, how to interpret what they collect, what data to take into or leave out of consideration... it can all easily be lead merely to support pre-existing beliefs/assumptions rather than seek an objective result. It's all subject to human limitations. Nothing is ever perfect.



Nathan18 said:


> Men just generally are and the averages are used. I don't know if women have high sex drives or not. On average. I guess it depends on what a high sex drive is classified as. Maybe some are suppressing the urges, because of the **** label? You hear a lot that a guy wants to have sex, but his girlfriend doesn't want to.
> 
> I don't think that it ever will. Men and women are not the same. We also will never be equal on everything. This is just one of those things that is not the same.


There's a big difference between being the "same" and being "equal". Men and women (arguably) being different from each other doesn't mean they shouldn't or can't be afforded equal respect and opportunities.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Clitoridectomies were performed in the US in the late 1800s, meaning, only a little over one century ago it was recommended to many women that they have their clitorises removed in order to maintain their social standing (since, if a woman was to masturbate, she could induce insanity and even find her way outside of the home [for shame!]. Not to mention that our wombs caused us hysteria---which, Science used to tell us those things were true. Science used to tell women that if they picked up a book, they could become infertile. Science used to say that homosexuality was a mental disorder and have homosexuals locked up. Science has been wrong, Science can be wrong. Science is not an all-knowing power or a perfect institution, it's people who have an objective in mind that they seek to prove. Since scientists and psychologists are people, sometimes their own biases get in the way. And as lisbeth said, it is hard to differentiate nature vs nurture). Even in the '30s, there's a couple of records showing a recommendation for a clitoridectomy---so not even 100 years ago, some women were told to remove their clitorises---the source of their pleasure. So women not only had the pleasure removed mentally, but also physically.

Not too long ago my grandmother told me to wait until marriage, that a man wouldn't want me if I had sex before then. When my mom found out I had sex she kicked me out and I had to sleep in my car at a truck stop over night. Women are outright, openly _shamed_ for their sexuality and told from a young age to suppress it, and in adolescence get to see sl*t-shaming appear among their peers ("You know she only had sex with one person? I thought she was promiscuous, she looks really promiscuous" "She slept with him she's a wh*re" blah blah blah---which, those things I heard recently by adults who you'd think wouldn't care). Like a woman descends into an inescapable class the moment she opens her legs, she becomes an untouchable to some).

To say that women's sexuality are less strong than mens, and that it's based biologically and not socially, is ridiculous. We can't know the difference, honestly. I used to think I was asexual, but I love sex and when I get it, I typically run 2 times a day. One time, 4 times. And yet I used to think I was asexual, I was disgusted. I didn't even get into the way that insecurities pray upon our sexuality. And I have Science to back me up, too.


----------



## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

lisbeth said:


> To clarify, by 'those countries' I meant the UK and USA. As in it isn't really particularly telling that nobody brings a mob to your house for sleeping around, because there's pretty much nothing that _is_ going to bring a mob to your house.


We were just on different pages, then. Yes, that kind of thing would never happen in those countries.



lisbeth said:


> Depends what kind of science it is. If it's Daily Mail evolutionary psychology 'science' where the study had a sample size of about 500, I don't really take it seriously. Obviously in a perfect world science would be purely objective, but in reality, it gets polluted by all sorts of things... I mean, basically it's impossible for it to entirely escape the biases and assumptions present in the society it's taking place in. There's all the issues of how they choose what data to collect, how to collect it, how to interpret what they collect, what data to take into or leave out of consideration... it can all easily be lead merely to support pre-existing beliefs/assumptions rather than seek an objective result. It's all subject to human limitations. Nothing is ever perfect.


Well, no, it's not the Daily Mail. I have looked on Google and there are many studies saying the same thing. A study like this, that is based around perception and people's opinions will never be perfect. I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that men are more interested in sex than women.

They go out of their way to obtain it more than the majority of women. Men buy far more sex than women. The number of men that masturbate supposedly outnumber women. They also do it a lot more, too.



lisbeth said:


> There's a big difference between being the "same" and being "equal". Men and women (arguably) being different from each other doesn't mean they shouldn't or can't be afforded equal respect and opportunities.


It depends. I don't see a large difference. People should have equal opportunities, regardless of who or what they are. They shouldn't be discriminated against. I don't think you can ever stop people thinking less of a person that sleeps around. How do you police that? Someone won't lose out on an opportunity for sleeping around. Well, apart from certain boyfriends, but people can date whoever they want.



Barette said:


> Science can be wrong. Science is not an all-knowing power or a perfect institution, it's people who have an objective in mind that they seek to prove. Since scientists and psychologists are people, sometimes their own biases get in the way.


I will back science, until I have a reason to disagree with it. It is not always people that have an unobjective mind. You have scientists that have different outlooks from the beginning of their tests and surveys. If the vast majority say one thing, I'm inclined to believe them. Bias will always be there. We still need to use science and surveys, even if they're not perfect. It's the best we have.

I also back nature over nurture, but that's for another thread.


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

meh i think you should be the change you want to see. stop comparing men and women and just see them as people.

if judgement is the enemy then look for judged people, not men or women.


----------



## Putin (May 21, 2013)

It's definitely true that men in general have much higher sex-drives than women. Social mores and norms undoubtedly influence the way men and women conduct themselves, but I reckon this is a biological thing. The majority of straight males probably will not turn down free sex with a reasonably attractive female.


----------



## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

Men have a lot more testosterone pumping around their bodies. This would increase male sex drive higher than women. Men get aroused easier and quicker and are usually the ones to finish first or too quick. This is probably an evolutionary thing since this increases the chance of impregnation.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Women are shamed for having too much sex, men are being shamed if they're not having enough.

Sucks for both genders.

*As for which gender wants sex the most?*

Check this ELLE/MSNBC.com Sex and Love Survey. Not the most reliable source, scientifically speaking, but close to 80 000 people answered which gives us a large pool.



> While only 38 percent of women said they think their partner wants sex more often, a whopping *66 percent of men said they do want more* (only 25 percent of women report wanting sex more often than their partner).


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12410071/ns/health-sexual_health/#.UxLvZIVFB_E

Also, it's worth noting that other studies suggest that around _30_ percent of young and middle-aged _women_ go through extended periods of feeling dim _desire_.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Barette said:


> Clitoridectomies were performed in the US in the late 1800s, meaning, only a little over one century ago it was recommended to many women that they have their clitorises removed in order to maintain their social standing (since, if a woman was to masturbate, she could induce insanity and even find her way outside of the home [for shame!]. Not to mention that our wombs caused us hysteria---which, Science used to tell us those things were true. Science used to tell women that if they picked up a book, they could become infertile. Science used to say that homosexuality was a mental disorder and have homosexuals locked up. Science has been wrong, Science can be wrong. Science is not an all-knowing power or a perfect institution, it's people who have an objective in mind that they seek to prove. Since scientists and psychologists are people, sometimes their own biases get in the way. And as lisbeth said, it is hard to differentiate nature vs nurture). Even in the '30s, there's a couple of records showing a recommendation for a clitoridectomy---so not even 100 years ago, some women were told to remove their clitorises---the source of their pleasure. So women not only had the pleasure removed mentally, but also physically.
> 
> Not too long ago my grandmother told me to wait until marriage, that a man wouldn't want me if I had sex before then. When my mom found out I had sex she kicked me out and I had to sleep in my car at a truck stop over night. Women are outright, openly _shamed_ for their sexuality and told from a young age to suppress it, and in adolescence get to see sl*t-shaming appear among their peers ("You know she only had sex with one person? I thought she was promiscuous, she looks really promiscuous" "She slept with him she's a wh*re" blah blah blah---which, those things I heard recently by adults who you'd think wouldn't care). Like a woman descends into an inescapable class the moment she opens her legs, she becomes an untouchable to some).
> 
> To say that women's sexuality are less strong than mens, and that it's based biologically and not socially, is ridiculous. We can't know the difference, honestly. I used to think I was asexual, but I love sex and when I get it, I typically run 2 times a day. One time, 4 times. And yet I used to think I was asexual, I was disgusted. I didn't even get into the way that insecurities pray upon our sexuality. And I have Science to back me up, too.


Actually, you are not arguing science, because science is a fact. You're arguing religion, which can, and will continue, to be wrong.

Extremely conservative religions, no matter what religion it is (Christian, Muslim, or Jewish) always leads to sexism. Liberal religions, on the other hand, tend to be more accepting. Look to the Unitarians, for example; they believe in gay rights, women's rights, and the right's of every man...it is ingrained in their own policies, and to be accepted into the church, you have to dedicate your time to bettering others.

Not everyone is a good person, but most people are good. Those that believe what you've suggested, either aren't good people, or they are ignorant and have low IQ's.


----------



## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

Maybe it's because the majority of women find most guys unattractive? :b You gotta commend them for still managing to grit their teeth and take one for the team every once and again. heh.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

diamondheart89 said:


> Maybe it's because the majority of women find most guys unattractive? :b You gotta commend them for still managing to grit their teeth and take one for the team every once and again. heh.


I honestly can agree that most men are unattractive. Women are generally very attractive.

But, then again, I'm straight, so I don't generally look at guys like that. There have been a few, but not enough to question whether I'm bi or not.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

diamondheart89 said:


> Maybe it's because the majority of women find most guys unattractive? :b You gotta commend them for still managing to grit their teeth and take one for the team every once and again. heh.


True. My theory is that for a man to have an attractive body he needs to work out in the gym for months to build that muscular physique. However, in the past this wasn't necessary because most jobs were physical outdoor ones. (Farming, building, fishing...) Working with your arms and hands all day long will make you just as muscular as going to the gym and this was every single guy. Every younger guy had a nice physique because they all did physical labor all day everyday. Nowadays most jobs are indoor non-physical ones, so most men don't get that look and women don't find them attractive anymore.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

arnie said:


> True. My theory is that for a man to have an attractive body he needs to work out in the gym for months to build that muscular physique. However, in the past this wasn't necessary because most jobs were physical outdoor ones. (Farming, building, fishing...) Working with your arms and hands all day long will make you just as muscular as going to the gym and this was every single guy. Every younger guy had a nice physique because they all did physical labor all day everyday. Nowadays most jobs indoor non-physical ones, so most men don't get that look and women don't find them attractive anymore.


I have a muscular arm.










Wait...no! No! Don't judge!


----------



## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

DeeperUnderstanding said:


> I honestly can agree that most men are unattractive. Women are generally very attractive.
> 
> But, then again, I'm straight, so I don't generally look at guys like that. There have been a few, but not enough to question whether I'm bi or not.


I don't know about objectively, but from what I see, women seem to have some sort of standards for sex (whether it's personality, looks, or whatever).... while a lot of men do not and will sleep with people they find otherwise disgusting just for the sake of having sex. At least from what I've seen around my area. Maybe it's because having more partners is glorified if you're male.

Women go crazy for sex too, but seemingly with specific guys. My friend was hooked to this one guy who really did it for her, and she practically jumped him for sex all the time. So, there's that.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

diamondheart89 said:


> I don't know about objectively, but from what I see, women seem to have some sort of standards for sex (whether it's personality, looks, or whatever).... while a lot of men do not and will sleep with people they find otherwise disgusting just for the sake of having sex. At least from what I've seen around my area. Maybe it's because having more partners is glorified if you're male.
> 
> Women go crazy for sex too, but seemingly with specific guys. My friend was hooked to this one guy who really did it for her, and she practically jumped him for sex all the time. So, there's that.


It may be a stereotype, but I do believe that men are more looks oriented, and women are more personality oriented.


----------



## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

DeeperUnderstanding said:


> It may be a stereotype, but I do believe that men are more looks oriented, and women are more personality oriented.


Maybe in dating but I know guys who've regularly slept with people they don't even find attractive at all. Weird.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

diamondheart89 said:


> Maybe in dating but I know guys who've regularly slept with people they don't even find attractive at all. Weird.


The way I see it, if I don't find you attractive, why would I want to sleep with you? If I can't imagine dating you, I wouldn't sleep with you.

Maybe I'm weird. I've always been the weird one.


----------



## Gentlecrab (Apr 14, 2013)

Nathan18 said:


> As we all know, women that sleep around are generally held in a lower regard. I don't have a real answer as to why that is. That's just the way society thinks


It's because a lot of women use sex as a bargaining chip. If you want to train a dog to sit you have to give it treats sparingly as a reward. If the dog has access to an unlimited supply of treats its not gonna sit on command.


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

arnie said:


> True. My theory is that for a man to have an attractive body he needs to work out in the gym for months to build that muscular physique. However, in the past this wasn't necessary because most jobs were physical outdoor ones. (Farming, building, fishing...) Working with your arms and hands all day long will make you just as muscular as going to the gym and this was every single guy. Every younger guy had a nice physique because they all did physical labor all day everyday. Nowadays most jobs are indoor non-physical ones, so most men don't get that look and women don't find them attractive anymore.


Some women don't care about that.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Gentlecrab said:


> It's because a lot of women use sex as a bargaining chip. If you want to train a dog to sit you have to give it treats sparingly as a reward. If the dog has access to an unlimited supply of treats its not gonna sit on command.


Did you really just compare a woman to a dog?


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

diamondheart89 said:


> I don't know about objectively, but from what I see, women seem to have some sort of standards for sex (whether it's personality, looks, or whatever).... *while a lot of men do not and will sleep with people they find otherwise disgusting just for the sake of having sex.* At least from what I've seen around my area. Maybe it's because having more partners is glorified if you're male.
> 
> Women go crazy for sex too, but seemingly with specific guys. My friend was hooked to this one guy who really did it for her, and she practically jumped him for sex all the time. So, there's that.


It makes me grossed out that men would actually do this.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

meganmila said:


> It makes me grossed out that men would actually do this.


I wouldn't do it.

I think guys are put under different pressures to have sex though in Western society. But you don't hear of guys bragging amongst themselves how they banged the 600lbs woman down the road, do you?

Personally, I love hearing women being misconstrued about men, because what it helps me realize that both genders overgeneralize probably too much. It helps me see that there are also people out there who aren't caught up in such generalizations.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Women seem to enjoy sex while they are having it but dont seem to have the same drive to get it in the first place as men do.

I think anyone who thinks women have the same sex drive as men just have to think of one word, prostitutes. The reason there are countless more female serving male customer prostitutes than the other way around is supply and demand. The demand for sex from females by males out strips the demand casually so prostitutes(sex for money) fills in the gap.

As for double standards, who can forget about women seeing themselves as more valuable than men when it comes to dating and going on dates, ie making the man pay for dinners, movies, travel etc. That it is just something that is expected from the man.

Or that men are expected to approach women while women just sit back and select from those who come to them instead of approaching men as well at anywhere near the same rate.

As someone mentioned before in this thread that a woman who has casual sex is deemed a **** but a guy who does the same is rewarded?


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Noca said:


> Women seem to enjoy sex while they are having it but dont seem to have the same drive to get it in the first place as men do.
> 
> I think anyone who thinks women have the same sex drive as men just have to think of one word, prostitutes. The reason there are countless more female serving male customer prostitutes than the other way around is supply and demand. The demand for sex from females by males out strips the demand casually so prostitutes(sex for money) fills in the gap.


This is a good observation, actually. Makes me wonder whether or not women prostitution is something only more common in certain cultures or globally, though.

And you can say ****-shaming is worse on women than men _possibly_ because women tend to have more options and thus abuse of power--and I think I may of just shoved my own foot in my mouth by speaking generally  Buuuuuut...I could be wrong! Once again, I'll likely always be confused trying to know how much society and how much biology goes into these things.

Bah, I'm done for the night...


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

There are tons more men watching porn than women. It seems like women can read a book like 50 Shades Of Grey, and get off, but guys need the visual aspect.

I'm sort of the same way. Not going to go into specifics, but I need to be able to see a girl to imagine having sex with her. I can't use a fantasy character and pretend, I don't know how people who can do that are able to do it (and I have a very good imagination, I write stories and songs and use deviantart, etc.)

I think, also, that personality can be a huge turnoff, or turnon. I remember being attracted to this one girl for like 5 mins, that was until she opened her mouth. She looked like a model, but was so annoying and a total airhead, that I just felt embarrassed to be around her.


----------



## Gentlecrab (Apr 14, 2013)

DeeperUnderstanding said:


> Did you really just compare a woman to a dog?


No, 
dog = man
treat = sex


----------



## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

diamondheart89 said:


> Maybe it's because the majority of women find most guys unattractive? :b You gotta commend them for still managing to grit their teeth and take one for the team every once and again. heh.


Although you're probably joking I always thought it was true. My recent dating adventures though has me changing my mind on this. Since I'm attracted to women I can't for the life of me understand why any woman would find a man attractive much less myself when I think I'm only slightly better than dirt.



diamondheart89 said:


> I don't know about objectively, but from what I see, women seem to have some sort of standards for sex (whether it's personality, looks, or whatever).... while a lot of men do not and will sleep with people they find otherwise disgusting just for the sake of having sex. At least from what I've seen around my area. Maybe it's because having more partners is glorified if you're male.


Women definitely has more standards for sex than men but I can't think of ever hearing of a man sleeping with someone he thinks is disgusting. I always thought men found a wide range of women attractive (myself included). Men at work often talk about some big and small girls and anything in between as attractive. Not every woman but you get my point.



> Women go crazy for sex too, but seemingly with specific guys. My friend was hooked to this one guy who really did it for her, and she practically jumped him for sex all the time. So, there's that.


I like hearing about women sex side of them. More insight from a different perspective since I have my own experiences and biases. R.e. me not understanding why women find men attractive.


----------



## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

And why does it matter if women are more judged for their sexual life?
Judging goes for both ways, good and bad.
Only immature people would judge people before they get to know their personality.

Feminism...it doesn't work well for you girls, you just work torwards being more masculin which doesn't make sense.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

midnightson said:


> Women by nature are supposed to be selective in picking a mate to ensure good genetic health for their offspring. When a woman sleeps around it sets off an alarm, consciously or subconsciously, in most people that says she doesn't care about the health of her children, also to men that she may be impregnated by another guy and ruin their opportunity to spread their genes. Of course people can out think and be trained away from this instinct, I'm just saying the mentality doesn't _entirely_ spring from cultural influence. Males trying to stop females from having sex with other males has been seen in dolphins too.


What's ironic is that 3rd wave+ feminism is giving men exactly what they want: Easy access to free and casual sex. Except on a fundamental level, most women don't actually want this; they want long lasting meaningful relationships but they can't get them when guys can sleep around so easily. They realize this after going through a few dozen guys are now in their 30s-40s and ready to settle down, but discover no man wants to marry an older woman that's had dozens of past sexual partners and a chip on her shoulder against men in general thanks to all the douchebags that used and abused her for easy sex in her 20s.

*Skip ahead to 5:00*


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Jesuszilla said:


> Although you're probably joking I always thought it was true. My recent dating adventures though has me changing my mind on this. *Since I'm attracted to women I can't for the life of me understand why any woman would find a man attractive much less myself when I think I'm only slightly better than dirt.*


I hear this quite often and I find it interesting because I think a lot of women are able to see what guys see in certain women, and appreciate female beauty on an aesthetic level, but a lot of guys seem unable to do that with other men.


----------



## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I hear this quite often and I find it interesting because I think a lot of women are able to see what guys see in certain women, and appreciate female beauty on an aesthetic level, but a lot of guys seem unable to do that with other men.


I can't speak for other men, but for me I see myself and other guys as disgusting. I don't see any beauty or sexiness or anything attractive in men. I can sort of see it when men dress nice or are clean shaven or take care of themselves from a fashion standpoint but when I look at a male body compared to a female I'm left questioning what's the big deal.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I hear this quite often and I find it interesting because I think a lot of women are able to see what guys see in certain women, and appreciate female beauty on an aesthetic level, but a lot of guys seem unable to do that with other men.


I can appreciate an attractive male body.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...-hairy-guys-807513/index3.html#post1070807570

Thank calichick and (no **** )


----------



## The Enclave (May 10, 2013)

Men are judged based on sex as well, so it all evens out.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

lisbeth said:


> This is something I've noticed a lot and it really bothers me. It rests on the idea that women don't want or enjoy sex, or at least that they don't want sex as much as men do. Which, you know, just isn't true. If a woman wants sex as much as a man does, why should _she_ be the one who's expected to put the brakes on and say no to it? He can go full steam ahead with his desires, so why is she expected to be putting obstacles in place between herself and something she wants? It doesn't make sense.





Barette said:


> To say that women's sexuality are less strong than mens, and that it's based biologically and not socially, is ridiculous. We can't know the difference, honestly.


False. You don't understand the effect of testosterone here:

There was an episode of This American Life that was all about testosterone, and one of the segments was about a lesbian woman who gave herself injections that gave her several times the levels as a normal man. And here's what she said the difference was walking around with that much testosterone:

""
The most overwhelming feeling is the incredible increase in libido and change in the way that I perceived women and the way I thought about sex. Before testosterone, I would be riding the subway, which is the traditional hotbed of lust in the city. And I would see a woman on the subway, and I would think, she's attractive. I'd like to meet her. What's that book she's reading? I could talk to her. This is what I would say.
There would be a narrative. There would be this stream of language. It would be very verbal.

After testosterone, there was no narrative. There was no language whatsoever. It was just, I would see a woman who was attractive or not attractive. She might have an attractive quality, nice ankles or something, and the rest of her would be fairly unappealing to me.

But that was enough to basically just flood my mind with aggressive, pornographic images, just one after another. It was like being in a pornographic movie house in my mind. And I couldn't turn it off. I could not turn it off. Everything I looked at, everything I touched, turned to sex.
""

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/transcript

tl;dr Women may enjoy sex just as much as men do, but because of testosterone men want it a lot more.


----------



## Gwynevere (Oct 6, 2013)

^lol at comparing elevated artificial levels of testosterone to what naturally occurs in your body.


----------



## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

Gwynevere said:


> ^lol at comparing elevated artificial levels of testosterone to what naturally occurs in your body.


What's your point? Men have 7-8 times as much testosterone as women and it's a proven fact that higher testosterone leads to a higher sex drive.

"Men who produce more testosterone are more likely to engage in extramarital sex."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I hear this quite often and I find it interesting because I think a lot of women are able to see what guys see in certain women, and appreciate female beauty on an aesthetic level, but a lot of guys seem unable to do that with other men.


Yeah, I talk to a guy and he can't find any men handsome or anything or don't see the attractiveness. I don't get why women can say "oh she's pretty" and actually appreciate a woman's looks but men can't do that. I like when men can admit that guy is handsome. Is it because they don't want to seem into guys? I'm not really into women but I can still say that girl is pretty. Just weird and also interesting as you say.


----------



## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

meganmila said:


> Yeah, I talk to a guy and he can't find any men handsome or anything or don't see the attractiveness. I don't get why women can say "oh she's pretty" and actually appreciate a woman's looks but men can't do that. I like when men can admit that guy is handsome. Is it because they don't want to seem into guys? I'm not really into women but I can still say that girl is pretty. Just weird and also interesting as you say.


I think its more the fact that they genuinely cannot see the appeal of it. In terms of faces, I can never see what is "handsome" or not, sure I could tell who would probably be considered more attractive out of a 1 and a 10 in comparison. But if you got two average looking guys together, I wouldnt be able to see anything appealing. I find a lot of guys are this way...


----------



## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

I personally can see when a guy is good looking. I have no problem pointing this out. It doesn't make you gay to see that another guy is decent looking. I don't find them sexually attractive, but I can understand why women would. Some guys are probably scared to point out a decent looking guy. I can kind of understand why.

In regards to women being better looking; women have more physical assets to help them look attractive. Face (while also using make up), breasts, stomach (where the curves are), legs, bum and feet (some men like these). This is a lot. Even if they're not so good in a couple areas, they have others to fall back on. Men have their face, stomach (abs), arms and back. If they fail in a couple, they don't have as many as women to fall back on. Getting abs and defined arms also takes a decent amount of work. 

Women tend to spend more time on their appearance than men. That extra time will help them to look more attractive. You can also add clothes to the equation. Women have a lot more clothes to choose from. Different types that can show off their best assets. Hair is also another variable.

I think this is why women are generally seen to be more attractive than men.


----------



## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

meganmila said:


> Yeah, I talk to a guy and he can't find any men handsome or anything or don't see the attractiveness. I don't get why women can say "oh she's pretty" and actually appreciate a woman's looks but men can't do that. I like when men can admit that guy is handsome. Is it because they don't want to seem into guys? I'm not really into women but I can still say that girl is pretty. Just weird and also interesting as you say.


For me I can't see what is so attractive in men. I base what guys are considered handsome or sexy based on what women I've met fancied but as far as understanding why I don't see it. It has nothing to do with being seen as gay or into men. Although I'm sure there are guys who refuse to acknowledge good looking for that reason.

The best example I can think of is when you see a beautiful woman dating an ugly guy or vice versa. And you wonder what she sees in him. Not sure I'm making sense.


----------



## yourfavestoner (Jan 14, 2010)

bwidger85 said:


> It's a big problem because it's not right. The main thing I want to address is the sex thing. It is clearly obvious that women are more judged for their sexual desires and acts than men are, at least in Western Societies. But it's not like only men are attacking women all the time for their sexual desire either, as women have also adopted this view and discriminate their own gender just as much as some men! You hear it all the time in the words "****s", "*****", etc.
> 
> The problem in holding women to be more "innocent" and more discriminated for their sexual desires than men is not healthy nor realistic in my opinion. It's not healthy because all it does is feed people with insecurities. Many women resort to lying about their sexual desires/acts/episodes, while men are left more off the hook?
> 
> ...


Fifty years ago I'd agree with this post.

These are the days of Sex and the City. Women can be open if they want to be. Some may shame them - just as some may shame men that are too open. America has been moving towards this for a long time and it's nowhere near over.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

yourfavestoner said:


> Fifty years ago I'd agree with this post.
> 
> These are the days of Sex and the City. Women can be open if they want to be. Some may shame them - just as some may shame men that are too open. America has been moving towards this for a long time and it's nowhere near over.


Yes, but they generally only approach one type of man. The nerds and geeks are not that type.


----------



## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

You know, I am one of the most sexually open females around, and I don't experience too much hate.

On the internet, sure, but it's the internet where crazy congregates. In real life, I actually get complimented on how comfortable and forthright I am with my sexuality. 

If I am being completely honest, rarely in life to I meet a male that I am direct with that seems turned off in any way.  Females either, speaking of which...


----------

