# starting nardil



## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I just picked up my script, and I'll take my first dose tomorrow morning. I'm super scared. This drug sounds like the devil--the side effects, I mean.

I'm going to avoid these foods for the first month and slowly integrate a few back in- http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html

There's just too much conflicting information out there on food. I'm currently vegetarian. I get my protein from peanuts, nuts, beans, protein shakes, and soy products. I guess I'm going to have to start eating meat again. Goodbye ethnic food. How will I ever eat out again?!

Anyone else buy a blood pressure monitor? They have them for like $40 on Amazon. It may be a good investment, I don't know.

My doc said to start at 15mg and then move on to 30mg after five days. I'm super sensitive to medication, so I think it may be best to stay on 15mg for a few weeks before moving to 30mg. Any suggestions?

I'm also taking 1 mg of Klonopin daily.

A friend of mine who is on the drug, who swears the ends justify the means, said that hypotension is also an issue. She carries around packets of salt to help raise her blood pressure when needed. Why have I never heard that before?


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

What made you get nardil over parnate ?
If your sensitive on meds i would have thought Parnate's more user friendly side effects list would have made it a better choice. 
I'm on Parnate and eat/drink what i want and haven't had a problem but everyone's different so start small if your going to eat the foods on the no no list.
Good luck


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

blakeyz said:


> What made you get nardil over parnate ?
> If your sensitive on meds i would have thought Parnate's more user friendly side effects list would have made it a better choice.
> I'm on Parnate and eat/drink what i want and haven't had a problem but everyone's different so start small if your going to eat the foods on the no no list.
> Good luck


Because I didn't know Parnate existed. I wonder how it effective it is in comparison to Nardil? If it's similar then that may be a better choice. I have pretty bad depressions but I think it's just in the context of social anxiety. Nardil I thought was the best for that.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> Because I didn't know Parnate existed. I wonder how it effective it is in comparison to Nardil? If it's similar then that may be a better choice. I have pretty bad depressions but I think it's just in the context of social anxiety. Nardil I thought was the best for that.


From what I've learned over the years, most people choose Nardil over Parnate (I think). I'm starting Nardil in about 7 days. This will be my 3rd time on it. It works really amazing, but kinda wore off after a while which is why I stopped it...but I cant wait to start it again.

So do you notice a difference yet? It hits you pretty hard with its amazingness how it just kills all your anxiety/depression. Let us know how its going.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> Because I didn't know Parnate existed. I wonder how it effective it is in comparison to Nardil? If it's similar then that may be a better choice. I have pretty bad depressions but I think it's just in the context of social anxiety. Nardil I thought was the best for that.


Have you ever tried Nardil? or only Parnate? And how effective would say Parnate has been for you on a 1 - 10 scale?


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

AprilEthereal said:


> From what I've learned over the years, most people choose Nardil over Parnate (I think). I'm starting Nardil in about 7 days. This will be my 3rd time on it. It works really amazing, but kinda wore off after a while which is why I stopped it...but I cant wait to start it again.
> 
> So do you notice a difference yet? It hits you pretty hard with its amazingness how it just kills all your anxiety/depression. Let us know how its going.


If nardil wears off on you, how come you want to take it again?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I just picked up my script, and I'll take my first dose tomorrow morning. I'm super scared. This drug sounds like the devil--the side effects, I mean.
> 
> I'm going to avoid these foods for the first month and slowly integrate a few back in- http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html
> 
> There's just too much conflicting information out there on food. I'm currently vegetarian. I get my protein from peanuts, nuts, beans, protein shakes, and soy products. I guess I'm going to have to start eating meat again. Goodbye ethnic food. How will I ever eat out again?!


I know how you feel man. I also started nardil a week ago and I've been absolutely terrified of the possible food interactions. I have been doing a lot of research into the foods, and yes it appears as though there is a lot of conflicting information which makes it all the more frustrating. The dr-bob list is probably the best, but I also found this helpful http://psychotropical.com/pdfs/maois_diet_full_v2.2.1.doc.pdf

In regards to nuts, I think the general consensus is that they are okay in small amounts. Unfortunately it seems that some foods just have to be tried in small amounts, due to the conflicting information. However, I would obviously avoid the usual ones like cheese, soy, fava/broad beans, etc.



> Anyone else buy a blood pressure monitor? They have them for like $40 on Amazon. It may be a good investment, I don't know.


Yep, I bought an automatic blood pressure monitor for this very reason.



> My doc said to start at 15mg and then move on to 30mg after five days. I'm super sensitive to medication, so I think it may be best to stay on 15mg for a few weeks before moving to 30mg. Any suggestions?


I started on 15mg the first two days, then went up to 30mg (morning and afternoon). After two more days I went up to 45mg (morning, afternoon, night).

I kept reading about all the harsh side effects of nardil and kept expecting the infamous "nardil insomnia". In fact I also wanted to get some seroquel when starting nardil just for this reason. However, to my surprise I never actually got the insomnia. Just about every SSRI has given me insomnia, so I'm very surprised that nardil hasn't when it does in the majority of people.

In fact I've actually tolerated nardil better than just about every SSRI. So far the only side effect is mild sedation, which was actually pleasant. It felt like I was taking benzos and actually helped my anxiety just from the side effect alone. As a result of being able to tolerate it well I was able to go up to 45mg pretty quickly. I am also normally very sensitive to medications, so again i'm surprised I have been able to go up to 45mg this quickly. I'll probably go up to 60mg this weekend and stay there.

So far I haven't experienced any hypotension either, but this wouldn't be too bad because my blood pressure is already slightly on the high end of normal.

I am still trying to decide if I should stay on nardil or not, due to the possible food interactions which scare the hell out of me. I'm thinking i'll at least give it 6 weeks, that way once it works (if it does) I can weigh up the risk vs benefit and make a decision. I have come very close to stopping nardil a few times (especially the first few days) just because the possible interactions scare me.

Nardil seems to be the only antidepressant where people really rave on about and speak so highly of. I have never seen anyone rave on about an SSRI to the same extent. There is a guy named "Ace" on the dr-bob forums who should be a sponsor for nardil. If you read some of his posts, you'll see what I'm talking about, eg http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080430/msgs/827439.html

In regards to nardil vs parnate I've heard that nardil is usually more effective for SA as it seems to hit GABA as well. Apparently parnate is also more stimulating, and is more likely to give insomnia (not good for me).


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

barry1685 said:


> If nardil wears off on you, how come you want to take it again?


Because it helped me more than anything I've ever tried before. And it wasn't until I was fully off of Nardil that I realized it WAS still working. I thought it crapped out, but it didn't. This time I plan to stay on it for good.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the information everyone! I still haven't started it yet, as I wanted to talk to my therapist yesterday about it -- he very adamantly doesn't want me going on it. I think I'm going to try anyway, though. I mean I just need a little relief. I'm going to start tomorrow.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I took my first dose yesterday. I haven't really felt much, but I don't expect to for a while. I have been feeling pretty good the past few days, though. I ate some tofu last night, which I probably shouldn't have, but from what I've read small, fresh amounts should be okay. 

One thing I'm worried about is protein powder. I drink a lot of protein shakes. I'm curious about L-Tyrosine. I think that converts to Tyramine in the body. What is everyone's opinion on protein shakes? Should I completely avoid, or maybe I can slowly test it out? I prefer Whey protein but maybe I can switch to an egg-white protein powder?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I think I found an answer to my question, for those following. Tyrosine is an amino acid, but it's not one of the essential amino acids. The non-essential amino acids are naturally produced by the liver, while the essential amino acids need to be taken as either supplements or in foods. A lot of the protein shakes are fortified with amino acids. I think as long as I find one that is fortified with only the essential amino acids I'll be fine.

The Trader Joe's Hemp Protein Powder includes only the essential amino acids. I tried to have a serving earlier, but it tasted so bad, I had to pour the rest out. I don't think it affected my blood pressure, although I am feeling very tired right now - but I think that's just a normal side effect from the drug.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

A lot of the protein stuff has soy extracts 
I'm on Parnate and i have eaten protein bars before. 
I have one on front of me and it says it has isolated soy protein but i never felt sick from eating anything while on Parnate.


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm taking a MAOI Emsam (selegilinehttp://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/wiki/Selegiline) at a dose that requires dietary restrictions... I've noticed that I cannot consume ANYTHING soy or my body reacts by an entire day of IBS like symptoms. Although, I'm not completely sure if the Emsam is entirely to blame, I've just been diagnosed with IBS. I really hope it's not, it's been working wonderfully.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

been on 4 weeks and the diet interactions in my experience are hype. (not to suggest other people don't have issue and to not be very careful)


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## A Sense of Purpose (May 8, 2011)

DistinctlyAmbiguous said:


> I'm taking a MAOI Emsam (sertraline) at a dose that requires dietary restrictions... .


Sertraline is an ssri.
Emsam is the MAOI selegiline
just fyi


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## DistinctlyAmbiguous (Aug 23, 2009)

A Sense of Purpose said:


> Sertraline is an ssri.
> Emsam is the MAOI selegiline
> just fyi


fixed, thank you for pointing that out I always miss-read the two.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

4 weeks of parnate today
Im taking 60 mg and i havent had any positive things yet
It feels just like the SSRI, i get hopeful and start taking it, work my way 2 max dose and it feels like a suger pill


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I got cocky with lack of side effects and went up to 60mg from 45mg too quickly (only after a week). I was taking 30mg in the morning and 30mg at night. At this dose it made me feel very dizzy and out of it (brain fog). 

Going back to 45mg three times a day for a while. My advice is don't go up to 60mg too quickly, there is a big jump in terms of side effects from 45mg, especially if taking twice a day instead of three times a day.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm at 30 mg Nardil now because I couldn't handle the anorgasmia at 60 mg. I feel like it works decently even at 30 mg. 60 mg would probably be better but oh well.

If you are having fatigue or heaviness in legs and arms, that side effect will probably go away eventually (at least it did for me).


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm only on day 3, at 15 mg each day, and ever since about 2PM yesterday, I've been sedated. I'm sort of getting that zombie-like feeling I had when I tried to get on Zoloft. It's very hard to concentrate. 

I've heard that getting up to a stable dose slowly helps counter this, which seems counter intuitive. Why would increasing the dose help?

Anyway, I go back to work tomorrow. I work in accounting, at the moment, and need to be extremely focused on detail to do my job. But, I don't care for my job so if I got laid off/fired it wouldn't be the end of the world. 

How long should I expect this sedation to last?


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

boostinggtir said:


> been on 4 weeks and the diet interactions in my experience are hype. (not to suggest other people don't have issue and to not be very careful)


Hi Boostinggtir, hows your experience so far with Nardil? Have you pushed up your dosage to 75mg yet??



kev said:


> I'm at 30 mg Nardil now because I couldn't handle the anorgasmia at 60 mg. I feel like it works decently even at 30 mg. 60 mg would probably be better but oh well.
> 
> If you are having fatigue or heaviness in legs and arms, that side effect will probably go away eventually (at least it did for me).


Hi Kev!! How long have you been on Nardil?? Just remember buddy; the only way you can really see the anti-anxiety effect is to push up your dose to 75 mg/day (and you'll have to wait another *6-10 weeks after you start 75mg* to see real benefits).. I don't understand what you really mean by saying it works decently even at 30mg.. Can you describe the effect that you feel at 30mg?

My humble advice to anyone just playing around at anything less than 60mg while you might need 75mg to 90mg for it to work; is that *you're simply wasting time*.. And its just a perfect recipe for quitting Nardil, and you'll for sure become one of those that just spread the really wrong message - 'Nardil does not work'.

Sure theres going to be side effects, I bet you at 60mg+. But, its about how badly you want to see real life. I've had enough of misery in my life; so I don't care about the side effects.

Btw: anorgasmia is supposed to be a temporary side effect which will not last more than 3-4 months. If anybody wants to get an idea on the side effects, just let me know. I'll be glad to help/ I'll somehow answer during this weekend.

Remember life is great on Nardil.. Learn exactly every single thing about the drug from people who have only positive things to say about it. If somebody is negative, man just run away from them - you know thats the general thumb rule of life. Good luck.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I'm only on day 3, at 15 mg each day, and ever since about 2PM yesterday, I've been sedated. I'm sort of getting that zombie-like feeling I had when I tried to get on Zoloft. It's very hard to concentrate.
> 
> I've heard that getting up to a stable dose slowly helps counter this, which seems counter intuitive. Why would increasing the dose help?
> 
> ...


At ~45mg the sedation was actually pleasant for me, it felt like a benzo. But once I hit 60mg that's when the mild sedation turned into a dizzy "zombie like" feel. I have had to go back to 45mg now because I went up to 60mg too fast.

I suggest just staying on a dose you find tolerable before going up, especially if you're working.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

Ashwin said:


> Hi Boostinggtir, hows your experience so far with Nardil? Have you pushed up your dosage to 75mg yet??
> 
> Hi Kev!! How long have you been on Nardil?? Just remember buddy; the only way you can really see the anti-anxiety effect is to push up your dose to 75 mg/day (and you'll have to wait another *6-10 weeks after you start 75mg* to see real benefits).. I don't understand what you really mean by saying it works decently even at 30mg.. Can you describe the effect that you feel at 30mg?
> 
> ...


Interesting, because I have heard some people do get benefit from 45mg. From what I've read 60mg seems to be the sweet spot in terms of therapeutic effect vs side effects. Once I hit 60mg again I think i'll stay there for a few weeks.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> At ~45mg the sedation was actually pleasant for me, it felt like a benzo. But once I hit 60mg that's when the mild sedation turned into a dizzy "zombie like" feel. I have had to go back to 45mg now because I went up to 60mg too fast.
> 
> I suggest just staying on a dose you find tolerable before going up, especially if you're working.


I'm actually not feeling as sedated now. I'll see how things go at work tomorrow before I bump up to 30mg, which my doc wants me to do on Thursday, ideally.

I'm also taking 1mg of Klonopin a day - .5 in the morning, .5 in the evening - and I wonder if that exasperates the sedation.

Either way, I am feeling better. I am actually feeling less anxious in general. I've done some strange things today, without experiencing much anxiety. I ran down the UPS man and demanded my package, called a bike shop, and then went into the shop and talked to one of the workers. I still felt anxious, but it's like I didn't hesitate to think about doing any of that. I doubt it's the medication, as it's only been three days, but I am feeling good, regardless.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Either way, I am feeling better. I am actually feeling less anxious in general. I've done some strange things today, without experiencing much anxiety. I ran down the UPS man and demanded my package, called a bike shop, and then went into the shop and talked to one of the workers. I still felt anxious, but it's like I didn't hesitate to think about doing any of that. I doubt it's the medication, as it's only been three days, but I am feeling good, regardless.


The first few days my anxiety was less too, but I think this was just due to the mild sedating side effect at a lower dose. That's probably all it is for you as well.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Today's my first day at 30mg. I just took my second 15mg about thirty minutes ago. I'm feeling pretty tired, but I haven't noticed any lack of depression or anxiety so far. In fact, I just took an Ativan as well because my anticipatory anxiety is pretty bad, as my girlfriend's family is coming over and then they're all going out for dinner. Fortunately, I don't have to go out to eat with them because of my food restrictions. Ha! Nardil is helping me avoid social situations.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Today is only day 3 on 30mg, but I've noticed that for about two hours before I take my second pill, I feel pretty manic-

7 AM - first pill
7 to 9 - feel exhausted
9 to 1 - feel normal anxiety, etc.
1 to 3 - feel a bit manic
3 PM - second pill
3 to 9 - feel exhausted

When is this damn exhaustion going to wear off?


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## Ashwin (Aug 6, 2010)

mjhea0 said:


> Today is only day 3 on 30mg, but I've noticed that for about two hours before I take my second pill, I feel pretty manic-
> 
> 7 AM - first pill
> 7 to 9 - feel exhausted
> ...


Hypomania/mania comes along for everyone when they just start Nardil. It normally doesn't last longer than 2-3 days. You'll be alright..I had the same thing too when I got started.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Ashwin said:


> Hypomania/mania comes along for everyone when they just start Nardil. It normally doesn't last longer than 2-3 days. You'll be alright..I had the same thing too when I got started.


The mania is great. I'm more worried about the exhaustion. How long will that last for?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm worried. I've heard that the higher the dose the less energy I'll have. I'm only on 30mg!


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

So, I've been on 30mg for a week now. The past three days I've been like a zombie, and my sleep has been terrible. I am really scared to go up to 45mg at this point. I don't think my doc knows enough about this drug. I mean he hasn't prescribed it in like 20 years. 

Should I just wait it out on 30mg until the side effects wear off, or should I just take the plunge and go up to 45mg?

I'd actually really like to just go back down to 15mg. It may sound crazy but I felt great at that dose. I am so sensitive to medication. ~5mg of Zoloft made me feel like a zombie. I couldn't get past 10mg of Lexapro. I feel 1mg of Lexapro every time I take it. I notice my blood pressure drop when I took 10mg of Propranolol. Hell, sometimes I even feel Tylenol. I'm wondering if it's necessary for me to get up to 60mg or so?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

I would stay on 30mg until the side effects become more tolerable. Everyone responds differently, and some take longer than others to adjust.

I have only just got used to 60mg, I had terrible afternoon sedation for the first 3 - 4 days, but its getting better now. Insomnia is still there but i'm taking doxylamine succinate which helps a lot for that. Are you able to get some of that for the insomnia? 

Alternatively if you can't tolerate nardil after a while, perhaps you could always try parnate?


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

Usually when I'd adjust my dosage, I'd feel awful until I had adjusted to the new amount. I waited two weeks to see how I felt, before changing my dosage. 

Does it take you a while to get to sleep? Are you only able to sleep for a few hours at a time? Let your doctor know how your sleep is being disturbed. Maybe he would be willing to prescribe you a sleep medicine.

While I had more energy initially with nardil and it worked better than any other medicine I tried, eventually I could barely sleep. I began to feel tired/sleepy all the time, yet if I manged to sleep it was only for about 3-4 hours. This went on for months, so I eventually had to get off it.


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## Projektpatrick (Jun 20, 2011)

I feel like we're in the same boat. I started a week ago, and I've been piling on the side effects already, making me a little nervous. I could jump ship to parnate, but part of me really wants to see what nardil is like first.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Projektpatrick said:


> I feel like we're in the same boat. I started a week ago, and I've been piling on the side effects already, making me a little nervous. I could jump ship to parnate, but part of me really wants to see what nardil is like first.


I'm on 60 mg Parnate and it gives me insomnia and i dont have the same energy level I used to. Like last night i went to do a work out and I just couldn't be 
stuffed doing cardio......i tried but could only do like 2 minutes skipping :um

Seroquel wipes out the Insomnia perfectly and Im hoping to add wellbutrin to help with the energy probz


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

I've been on Nardil now for about a week (maybe a couple days extra). I'm taking 45mg a day. I'm noticing that I have hardly any depression at all anymore, and my anxiety has been very manageable. No drastic change in my social anxiety, but its a little better. Very drastic change in my depression. Its like gone.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

So, the afternoon fatigue as well as the restless sleep have calmed down. It's strange. Last Thursday, the side-effects were pretty strong but I had very little anxiety. It felt great. Then on Friday, the side-effects went away but my anxiety immediately returned. I'm still only on 30 mg. 

I think this is a sign that it's time to increase my dose. I'm in no hurry, though, so I may wait a little longer just to see what happens.

Also, has anyone had acne breakouts as a side-effect? I'm breaking out more. I had an increase in breakouts from benzons, and I believe Nardil effects the GABA like benzos, so I'm worried that the Nardil is causing me to breakout more. I hope once I get used to this level, they will go away .. until I increase my dose.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

If you are having that zombie like feeling it's probably mild hypotension. I had that for like 2 days and I was in a complete fog. To get rid of the hypotension drink as much water as you can, this will raise your blood pressure.

To reduce side effects including hypotension I suggest taking 
your nardil on a full stomach. 
That completely got rid of my 
hypotension at 60 mg. 

My advice is to start on 15mg for a week and add one more pill 
each week until you reach 
60mg. Even after this I still felt 
like crap and thought I was taking a sugar pill. By my 4-5th week on 60 mg my anxiety slowly started reducing and a week later I am anxiety free and no depression.

Make sure you are taking 
supplementing with vitamin b6!! I
believe this is critical for a 
successful treatment. Nardil 
wipes out b6 and can cause a
deficiency, but more importantly
vitamin b6 is essential in 
neurotransmitter synthesis, 
including GABA. Without b6 you 
will not produce adequate 
amounts of GABA. I take a b 
complex with 50mg of b6 and 
then another 100mg capsule 
every morning. This could help 
you acheive benefits without 
having go even higher on the nardil dosage and get bad side effects. Hang in there everyone and be patient. You will be satisfied soon


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

mr t said:


> If you are having that zombie like feeling it's probably mild hypotension. I had that for like 2 days and I was in a complete fog. To get rid of the hypotension drink as much water as you can, this will raise your blood pressure.
> 
> To reduce side effects including hypotension I suggest taking
> your nardil on a full stomach.
> ...


I'm drinking tons of water as well as eating a lot of salt and potassium to counter the hypotension. So far hypotension as been more of an issue than hypertension yet it's something my doc didn't tell me about. I'm also supplementing with B complex.

It seems that people either get up to 60 mg fast, like in your case, or they go slow with it. I'm torn right now about trying to up my dose to 45 mg or to stay on 30 mg for few weeks before increasing my dose. I see my doc today so hopefully he'll help me decide. Either way, I'm not giving up. I don't see any long-term harm in either path as long as I stick it out.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

Up your dose to 45 mg. Dont take it all at once. That raises the chance of getting hypotension. Take like 30mg together in morning after breakfast on full stomach, then 15 in afternoon with a light snack. or you could do 15 15 15 throughout the day. I definitely recommend taking it with food.

If you up your dose to 45mg and it gives you problems just reduce your dose back to 30mg, its not really a big issue.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

So, after talking it over with my doc, I've decided to increase my dose to 45 mg. 30 mg in the morning, 15 mg in the afternoon.

I'm still breaking out pretty bad, but it's in my beard line and I have a beard. So it's more annoying than anything else. I do have a theory about that. I think it must relate to GABA. Benzos, which affect GABA, cause me breakouts. I believe that Nardil has an affect on GABA as well as B6. Since I just started taking a B-complex that may be affecting my GABA--and, thus, causing my acne, along with the Nardil of course. In any case, I think that once my body gets used to the B-complex and the Nardil (once I get on my stable dose) I should be fine. But that just all takes time, like everything else.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> So, after talking it over with my doc, I've decided to increase my dose to 45 mg. 30 mg in the morning, 15 mg in the afternoon.
> .


If you're going up to 45mg I would suggest 15mg three times a day to start with. I used to dose about 7am, 4pm, and just before bed.

Once you move up to 60mg you can divide it into twice a day (30mg morning and 30mg evening). However I find this hard at first so had to drop down to 45mg again for a while due to dizziness and daytime sedation.

Be aware though, once you hit 60mg that's when the severe insomnia may start. Try and get a powerful sedative.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

shy-one said:


> If you're going up to 45mg I would suggest 15mg three times a day to start with. I used to dose about 7am, 4pm, and just before bed.
> 
> Once you move up to 60mg you can divide it into twice a day (30mg morning and 30mg evening). However I find this hard at first so had to drop down to 45mg again for a while due to dizziness and daytime sedation.
> 
> Be aware though, once you hit 60mg that's when the severe insomnia may start. Try and get a powerful sedative.


Shy-one:

One of the reasons you are having bad insomnia is because you are taking 30mg of nardil in the evening! Take 30 mg in the morning and the second 30 mg right after lunch time!


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

yea ive just started getting a bit of insomnia. My dose was upped from 30 to 45mg, I'm going to try taking my 2X30 at night time to see if it helps with sleep. I feel alot better then I ever have, but am not all the way there yet. Plus we need that sleep to fell good regardless. I might try taking amitriptyline to help with sleep.. did when I first stated. zero interaction issuse, just better sleep.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Just started 70 mg Parnate today


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

blakeyz said:


> Just started 70 mg Parnate today


keep us posted as to how you go. I may try at some point, to see if is more beneficial then narild. I like the idea of it been more dopagenic or wat ever


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mr t said:


> Shy-one:
> 
> One of the reasons you are having bad insomnia is because you are taking 30mg of nardil in the evening! Take 30 mg in the morning and the second 30 mg right after lunch time!


This is inconvenient for me as my nardil needs to be refrigerated and i'm at work this time, so unable to keep it in a fridge.

Perhaps if I dose about 4:30pm instead of 7:30pm?


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

shy-one said:


> This is inconvenient for me as my nardil needs to be refrigerated and i'm at work this time, so unable to keep it in a fridge.
> 
> Perhaps if I dose about 4:30pm instead of 7:30pm?


Yea if you have to keep it refrigerated, which is strange, take it as early as possible.

What are the manufacturer imprints on both sides of your pill?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I quit the B-complex and my breakouts stopped. It happened overnight. Surprising, to say the least. I thought B vitamins were good for the skin? Maybe the amounts were just too much for me. Or maybe it's a bad brand. Maybe the fillers in the pills were the cause. Regardless, I'm just taking a multivitamin which only has 2mg of B6 in it. 

The mid-day tiredness and fatigue came back almost immediately too.

I feel a lot of pressure to get up to 60mg. A lot of people on this forum think that's the minimum amount needed to work. Maybe that's what's working for them. But everyone is different. I know people who are fine with just taking 30 mg. So, long story short, I haven't increased my dose to 45mg yet. I'm going to wait a week, see what happens. My anxiety has def. calmed down. I'm happy right now. No need to change .. not yet anyway.

Good luck to you all!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I feel a lot of pressure to get up to 60mg. A lot of people on this forum think that's the minimum amount needed to work. Maybe that's what's working for them. But everyone is different. I know people who are fine with just taking 30 mg. So, long story short, I haven't increased my dose to 45mg yet. I'm going to wait a week, see what happens. My anxiety has def. calmed down. I'm happy right now. No need to change .. not yet anyway.
> 
> Good luck to you all!


I know what you mean, but you gotta take it slowly man. Some can tolerate it quicker than others. Apparently I should be on 75mg ideally but there is no way in hell I can tolerate that yet.

Just go up slowly until you can tolerate it. If you find you still can't tolerate it after a while perhaps parnate might be an option.

I also experienced less anxiety at the start on 45mg, but I think this is just due to the mild sedating side effect and not the actual effect of the drug.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> I know what you mean, but you gotta take it slowly man. Some can tolerate it quicker than others. Apparently I should be on 75mg ideally but there is no way in hell I can tolerate that yet.
> 
> Just go up slowly until you can tolerate it. If you find you still can't tolerate it after a while perhaps parnate might be an option.
> 
> I also experienced less anxiety at the start on 45mg, but I think this is just due to the mild sedating side effect and not the actual effect of the drug.


Yeah, I'm just going to go at my own pace too. I'm in no hurry to get to up to the dose that I think may help me. 30 mg is making a big difference for me right now, anxiety wise. I'm not anxiety free, but then again I don't want to ever be anxiety free. Another thing I'm worried about is this drug working _too _well. I know that sounds crazy. I mean I want a little anxiety always there, otherwise I won't be able to work through it on my own. What would happen if it did totally erase my anxiety but then all of a sudden it stopped working? I'd be at where I was before I started the medication.

Anyhow, I'm probably over thinking this as always. I'm going to stick with 30 mg for another week or two and see where I'm at. I'm training for a half marathon right now as well, which is at the end of the month, and I don't want the fatigue to get in the way. I may just wait until after the marathon to increase my dose.

What dose are you on right now? I think you said you tried 60mg but that was too much and you dropped back to 45mg. Is that right?


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

does nardil hurt the sex drive at all??it seems it does as well as the insomnia kinda scares me away from it..i dont want to have get scribed seroquel ontop just to sleep..

how is nardil in promoting social drive??i know anxiety is less but do you find talking to people more enjoyable??


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

belfort said:


> does nardil hurt the sex drive at all??it seems it does as well as the insomnia kinda scares me away from it..i dont want to have get scribed seroquel ontop just to sleep..
> 
> how is nardil in promoting social drive??i know anxiety is less but do you find talking to people more enjoyable??


Loss of libido and anorgasmia are potential side effects. I'm still on a low dose (30mg) and I experience both of these to a certain degree. It's all about balance. Some of the side-effects are scary, yes. I think you should try it and work your way up slowly to help mitigate the side effects. If they become too much, and the therapeutic value isn't what you want, then you can always decrease your dose or get off the drug altogether.

I haven't found that Nardil makes me more social. Social situations are more enjoyable because I have less anxiety, but I wouldn't say that it makes me want to experience social situations any more. I am avoiding situations less though.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Yeah, I'm just going to go at my own pace too. I'm in no hurry to get to up to the dose that I think may help me. 30 mg is making a big difference for me right now, anxiety wise. I'm not anxiety free, but then again I don't want to ever be anxiety free. Another thing I'm worried about is this drug working _too _well. I know that sounds crazy. I mean I want a little anxiety always there, otherwise I won't be able to work through it on my own. What would happen if it did totally erase my anxiety but then all of a sudden it stopped working? I'd be at where I was before I started the medication.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm probably over thinking this as always. I'm going to stick with 30 mg for another week or two and see where I'm at. I'm training for a half marathon right now as well, which is at the end of the month, and I don't want the fatigue to get in the way. I may just wait until after the marathon to increase my dose.
> 
> What dose are you on right now? I think you said you tried 60mg but that was too much and you dropped back to 45mg. Is that right?


Yep that's right. I tried going up to 60mg only after a week and the sedation and dizziness was too much to handle so bumped down to 45mg again. I then tried 60mg again a week later and tolerated it better. I have now been at 60mg for two weeks, so I only have about 2 - 3 weeks before it possibly kicks in.

The reduction in anxiety you're experiencing isn't the actual effect of the drug. It is more likely be due to the sedating side effect (I experienced this at first). As I said at first it felt like a mild benzo.

When I hit 60mg the second time (two weeks ago) I'm pretty sure I experienced some mild euphoria for a few days which was very pleasant (apparently I kept smiling and music also sounded a lot better). I thought this was the real deal, but my depression then returned a few days later.

My biggest problem now at 60mg is severe insomnia. If I don't take any sedatives I sleep 4 hours on average a night with very broken sleep. It is very strange because when I was on 45mg I was actually sleeping BETTER than usual, but as soon as I hit 60mg it turned from good sleep to insomnia. I am trying my best to tolerate it without the use of antipsychotics, as these can often block dopamine a little and are also too sedating/groggy during the next day (not good if you have to work). Instead, I am alternating between one or two days of no sedatives (usually weekends) and having naps during the day. On work days sleep is more important so i'll alternate between nitrazepam and doxylamine to try and avoid tolerance. On really bad nights i'll combine nitrazepam and doxylamine which is a powerful combo.

Don't feel bad about not being able to tolerate more yet, you'll get there eventually. Remember go up slowly, increase it to 45mg once the side effects are bearable on 30mg.


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## jim_morrison (Aug 17, 2008)

shy-one said:


> My biggest problem now at 60mg is severe insomnia. If I don't take any sedatives I sleep 4 hours on average a night with very broken sleep. It is very strange because when I was on 45mg I was actually sleeping BETTER than usual, but as soon as I hit 60mg it turned from good sleep to insomnia. I am trying my best to tolerate it without the use of antipsychotics, as these can often block dopamine a little and are also too sedating/groggy during the next day (not good if you have to work). Instead, I am alternating between one or two days of no sedatives (usually weekends) and having naps during the day. On work days sleep is more important so i'll alternate between nitrazepam and doxylamine to try and avoid tolerance. On really bad nights i'll combine nitrazepam and doxylamine which is a powerful combo.


What about low dose seroquel? That's the only AP I can think of where you can get sedation at doses below the dopamine-blocking threshold.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

jim_morrison said:


> What about low dose seroquel? That's the only AP I can think of where you can get sedation at doses below the dopamine-blocking threshold.


Yeah still thinking about it if I can even get some. I tried it once (half a 25mg tablet) and it totally floored me the whole next day with severe dizziness and sedation. I'm very sensitive to antipsychotics. I tolerated zyprexa a little better (half a tablet of the lowest dose), but that would probably cause a lot of weight gain in combination with nardil.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> Yeah still thinking about it if I can even get some. I tried it once (half a 25mg tablet) and it totally floored me the whole next day with severe dizziness and sedation. I'm very sensitive to antipsychotics. I tolerated zyprexa a little better (half a tablet of the lowest dose), but that would probably cause a lot of weight gain in combination with nardil.


The XR version is much better for next day grogginess


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> My biggest problem now at 60mg is severe insomnia. If I don't take any sedatives I sleep 4 hours on average a night with very broken sleep. It is very strange because when I was on 45mg I was actually sleeping BETTER than usual, but as soon as I hit 60mg it turned from good sleep to insomnia. I am trying my best to tolerate it without the use of antipsychotics, as these can often block dopamine a little and are also too sedating/groggy during the next day (not good if you have to work). Instead, I am alternating between one or two days of no sedatives (usually weekends) and having naps during the day. On work days sleep is more important so i'll alternate between nitrazepam and doxylamine to try and avoid tolerance. On really bad nights i'll combine nitrazepam and doxylamine which is a powerful combo.


When are you taking your doses? I'm wondering if taking it all in the morning instead of spreading them out would help with the insomnia?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Well, it just felt right so I increased my dose to 45 mg today. I'm going to try to start taking 30 mg in the morning at 7 and 45 mg around noon. I hope this will help counteract the insomnia.

Right now, I'm feeling a bit manic and anxious. It's fairly unpleasant. It must be related to the increase in dose, as I am neither in a social situation nor am I worried about an upcoming social situation. Anyway, we'll see how it goes the next few days. My sleep is still fairly restless, but I am getting a full 8 hours.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

I've been on Nardil for about a month now. Its helping alot, but for some reason I'm soo tired during the day. Its hard to keep my eyes open. Anyone have this problem? Also, i've lost the ability to orgasm, which really really sucks. Anyone have this problem as well?


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> Well, it just felt right so I increased my dose to 45 mg today. I'm going to try to start taking 30 mg in the morning at 7 and 45 mg around noon. I hope this will help counteract the insomnia.
> 
> Right now, I'm feeling a bit manic and anxious. It's fairly unpleasant. It must be related to the increase in dose, as I am neither in a social situation nor am I worried about an upcoming social situation. Anyway, we'll see how it goes the next few days. My sleep is still fairly restless, but I am getting a full 8 hours.


Glad to hear its working for you, minus the insomnia part. I had bad insomnia like the first 2 weeks, now I'm so tired by the end of the day, I've been sleeping pretty good.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Well, it just felt right so I increased my dose to 45 mg today. I'm going to try to start taking 30 mg in the morning at 7 and 45 mg around noon. I hope this will help counteract the insomnia.
> 
> Right now, I'm feeling a bit manic and anxious. It's fairly unpleasant. It must be related to the increase in dose, as I am neither in a social situation nor am I worried about an upcoming social situation. Anyway, we'll see how it goes the next few days. My sleep is still fairly restless, but I am getting a full 8 hours.


Did I read this right? You increased to 75mg from 30mg (30mg morning + 45mg noon)? That's too soon man.

If I were you I would stop once you reach the magic 60mg mark (once you can tolerate it) and wait 4 - 6 weeks. A lot of people get benefit from 60mg.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

AprilEthereal said:


> I've been on Nardil for about a month now. Its helping alot, but for some reason I'm soo tired during the day. Its hard to keep my eyes open. Anyone have this problem?


Yep but that's mainly due to being so tired from lack of sleep for me



> Also, i've lost the ability to orgasm, which really really sucks. Anyone have this problem as well?


Haha yep, if you have a gf she will love the stamina though, but it sucks for you.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

AprilEthereal said:


> Glad to hear its working for you, minus the insomnia part. I had bad insomnia like the first 2 weeks, now I'm so tired by the end of the day, I've been sleeping pretty good.


I still only sleep 4 hours on average with nardil unless I knock myself out with something, it's the worst side effect.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Second day on 45 mg. I'm at work right now. I'm either very tired or am just extremely loopy--or both. I feel like I'm on like 1 mg of Klonopin. My cognitive abilities are lacking (I guess), I'm forgetting things, and bumping into things. I'm not liking this. It's hard to work.

I felt a little of this the first three or four days on 30 mg. I hope it goes away soon.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Second day on 45 mg. I'm at work right now. I'm either very tired or am just extremely loopy--or both. I feel like I'm on like 1 mg of Klonopin. My cognitive abilities are lacking (I guess), I'm forgetting things, and bumping into things. I'm not liking this. It's hard to work.
> 
> I felt a little of this the first three or four days on 30 mg. I hope it goes away soon.


It will, this sedation is always what usually happens when you first go up in dose, then its the insomnia.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> Second day on 45 mg. I'm at work right now. I'm either very tired or am just extremely loopy--or both. I feel like I'm on like 1 mg of Klonopin. My cognitive abilities are lacking (I guess), I'm forgetting things, and bumping into things. I'm not liking this. It's hard to work.
> 
> I felt a little of this the first three or four days on 30 mg. I hope it goes away soon.


It will start to fade. Last time I was on Nardil, I was like a walking zombie for bout a month(ish). I was on it for about a year, and trust me, it will pass. Don't worry. Worry more about gaining weight (which was really hard for me atleast). This is my 3rd time on Nardil, and I just started the groggy/look like your gonna fall asleep phase the other day. As long as I don't have the constant self consciousness and depression anymore, I really don't care about the side effects (except the weight gain which is a b*tch!).


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> It will, this sedation is always what usually happens when you first go up in dose, then its the insomnia.


LOL You've given me much to look forward to.

It's such a weird feeling. I feel sedated, but even more anxious. It can be just awful.

How are you doing with the insomnia?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> It will start to fade. Last time I was on Nardil, I was like a walking zombie for bout a month(ish). I was on it for about a year, and trust me, it will pass. Don't worry. Worry more about gaining weight (which was really hard for me atleast). This is my 3rd time on Nardil, and I just started the groggy/look like your gonna fall asleep phase the other day. As long as I don't have the constant self consciousness and depression anymore, I really don't care about the side effects (except the weight gain which is a b*tch!).


I'm not too concerned about the weight gain. I'm on point with my diet, and I'm training for a half-marathon. I figure as long as I keep running and don't binge, I should be fine.

How much weight did you gain?

Out of curiosity, why is this your third time on the drug? Did it not work before? Did it start working then stop?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> LOL You've given me much to look forward to.
> 
> It's such a weird feeling. I feel sedated, but even more anxious. It can be just awful.
> 
> How are you doing with the insomnia?


Really bad. Average 4 hours sleep a night. Only thing that helps is nitrazepam + doxylamine but can't rely on benzos forever so still trying to get a low dose of seroquel.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Really bad. Average 4 hours sleep a night. Only thing that helps is nitrazepam + doxylamine but can't rely on benzos forever so still trying to get a low dose of seroquel.


Sorry, that really sucks. When did the insomnia start - at what dose, I mean?


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> I'm not too concerned about the weight gain. I'm on point with my diet, and I'm training for a half-marathon. I figure as long as I keep running and don't binge, I should be fine.
> 
> How much weight did you gain?
> 
> Out of curiosity, why is this your third time on the drug? Did it not work before? Did it start working then stop?


You run marathons? Thats awesome. Running sounds like a good way to offset the weight gain from the drug. This is my third time on it because after I was on Nardil for a while I thought that it had stopped working. So I stopped taking it, and my doctor put me on a different drug. It wasn't until I was on my new medication that I realized that Nardil was still working, I just thought it wasn't. That constant self consciousness started again, and I realized I made a huge mistake stopping Nardil. I ended up doing the same thing again. Thought it stopped working, but it really was and I didn't notice it was working. I think I did this because i became so use to the benefits of Nardil that I had forgot how bad my social anxiety really was. As for the weight gain, I gained 80lbs. I went from 155-160 to being obese. The good thing though is when I stopped the Nardil, the weight just magically came off by itself (all of it). I didn't even exercise or nething. I just somehow lost the weight.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Sorry, that really sucks. When did the insomnia start - at what dose, I mean?


At 60mg. Strangely 45mg was actually improving my sleep but when I went up to 60mg I got severe insomnia. Does anyone know if the insomnia ever goes away with time?


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> At 60mg. Strangely 45mg was actually improving my sleep but when I went up to 60mg I got severe insomnia. Does anyone know if the insomnia ever goes away with time?


From what I remember being on it in the past, the insomnia does eventually go away after being on it for a while. Did you try asking your doctor for a sleeping medication?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> You run marathons? Thats awesome. Running sounds like a good way to offset the weight gain from the drug. This is my third time on it because after I was on Nardil for a while I thought that it had stopped working. So I stopped taking it, and my doctor put me on a different drug. It wasn't until I was on my new medication that I realized that Nardil was still working, I just thought it wasn't. That constant self consciousness started again, and I realized I made a huge mistake stopping Nardil. I ended up doing the same thing again. Thought it stopped working, but it really was and I didn't notice it was working. I think I did this because i became so use to the benefits of Nardil that I had forgot how bad my social anxiety really was. As for the weight gain, I gained 80lbs. I went from 155-160 to being obese. The good thing though is when I stopped the Nardil, the weight just magically came off by itself (all of it). I didn't even exercise or nething. I just somehow lost the weight.


Third time's a charm. 

You know what to expect at least. That's so strange about the weight--how it just all came off when you quit. Maybe try to do more exercise this time as your increasing your dose. Good luck!


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

AprilEthereal said:


> You run marathons? Thats awesome. Running sounds like a good way to offset the weight gain from the drug. This is my third time on it because after I was on Nardil for a while I thought that it had stopped working. So I stopped taking it, and my doctor put me on a different drug. It wasn't until I was on my new medication that I realized that Nardil was still working, I just thought it wasn't. That constant self consciousness started again, and I realized I made a huge mistake stopping Nardil. I ended up doing the same thing again. Thought it stopped working, but it really was and I didn't notice it was working. I think I did this because i became so use to the benefits of Nardil that I had forgot how bad my social anxiety really was. As for the weight gain, I gained 80lbs. I went from 155-160 to being obese. The good thing though is when I stopped the Nardil, the weight just magically came off by itself (all of it). I didn't even exercise or nething. I just somehow lost the weight.


The weight gain from nardil issue seems to effect pretty much all the users 
It's the only thing stopping me from chucking parnate in the bin and trying it.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

blakeyz said:


> The weight gain from nardil issue seems to effect pretty much all the users
> It's the only thing stopping me from chucking parnate in the bin and trying it.


It seems to me the weight gain must be from either water retention or craving sweets and other carbs. I don't see what else could be causing it. The water retention is difficult to combat, but the carb issue can be eliminated with a strict diet and exercise, in my opinion.

I'm actually losing weight right now, then again I am still on a low dose (45 mg) and am running like 20 miles a week.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

So, the initial sedation has worn off and now I'm feeling slightly euphoric. I feel really, really good. I found myself doing things at work today without worry. I felt like I was smiling more. I also got great sleep last night. I'm going to probably stay at 45 mg for a while, at least until after the half marathon at the end of the month.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> So, the initial sedation has worn off and now I'm feeling slightly euphoric. I feel really, really good. I found myself doing things at work today without worry. I felt like I was smiling more. I also got great sleep last night. I'm going to probably stay at 45 mg for a while, at least until after the half marathon at the end of the month.


THATS GREAT!:clap I'm so happy it finally kicked in for you. Doesn't it feel great now that you can do things without that constant self consciousness? For example: "am i walking right?" "what are others thinking of me when i do this?" Stuff like that. It just sorta goes away due to the awesomeness of Nardil. Again, I'm happy it finally kicked in for you.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> THATS GREAT!:clap I'm so happy it finally kicked in for you. Doesn't it feel great now that you can do things without that constant self consciousness? For example: "am i walking right?" "what are others thinking of me when i do this?" Stuff like that. It just sorta goes away due to the awesomeness of Nardil. Again, I'm happy it finally kicked in for you.


Thanks! I am concerned that it is only temporary since I am still on a low dose. But it does feel great! I'm just going to take it a day at a time, see how things go, and up my dose when and if I think I need to.

I hope things go for well for you too!


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

It's worked already? Wow. I've been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and nothing, except for unbearable insomnia. I'm starting to think it won't work for me


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> It's worked already? Wow. I've been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and nothing, except for unbearable insomnia. I'm starting to think it won't work for me


Sorry. I have no idea if it's really working. I still get anxiety, but it's not nearly as bad. I was anxious and sweated my *** off in a tattoo shop today, but then again getting a tattoo is pretty nerve-racking in itself.

I think it's too soon to tell if it's really _working _or not. I've been on 45 mg for less than a week. My plan is to still eventually get up to 60 before I really determine if it's _working _or not.

Again, I'm sorry about the insomnia. It may be a good sign, who knows? Maybe it shows that the Nardil is really hitting your system. I mean, maybe it will take a few months at 60 mg before it fully kicks in, at which time the insomnia will go away. I know that doesn't help you with the hell you're in now, but sometimes the ends do justify the means. Try to give it at least another week.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Sorry. I have no idea if it's really working. I still get anxiety, but it's not nearly as bad. I was anxious and sweated my *** off in a tattoo shop today, but then again getting a tattoo is pretty nerve-racking in itself.
> 
> I think it's too soon to tell if it's really _working _or not. I've been on 45 mg for less than a week. My plan is to still eventually get up to 60 before I really determine if it's _working _or not.


Given that you've only gone up to 45mg I highly doubt it. As I said before I experienced some mild euphoria for a few days when I first went up to 60mg, then it went away.



> Again, I'm sorry about the insomnia. It may be a good sign, who knows? Maybe it shows that the Nardil is really hitting your system. I mean, maybe it will take a few months at 60 mg before it fully kicks in, at which time the insomnia will go away. I know that doesn't help you with the hell you're in now, but sometimes the ends do justify the means. Try to give it at least another week.


I'm not sure how much longer I can keep going with the insomnia, its actually making me more depressed from lack of sleep.

You make a good point about it hitting my system, because at 45mg I felt almost no side effects. So perhaps 60mg is the right dose.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Given that you've only gone up to 45mg I highly doubt it. As I said before I experienced some mild euphoria for a few days when I first went up to 60mg, then it went away.


Yup, I def. jumped the gun. Anxiety is back, in full force, today. I guess I'll eventually go up to 60 mg. I am going to wait at least a month though.

Damn, I thought it had kicked in.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

shy-one said:


> It's worked already? Wow. I've been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and nothing, except for unbearable insomnia. I'm starting to think it won't work for me


A small positive in that I'm guessing the next med you will try is Parnate and it has a much better side effect profile. Where I will probably be doing the exact opposite and going to Nardil and becoming Jabba the hutt

Try hang in there for at least 8 weeks man, i know it sucks


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

blakeyz said:


> A small positive in that I'm guessing the next med you will try is Parnate and it has a much better side effect profile. Where I will probably be doing the exact opposite and going to Nardil and becoming Jabba the hutt
> 
> Try hang in there for at least 8 weeks man, i know it sucks


Parnate is supposed to be even WORSE for insomnia. God, i'd hate to think how bad that would be.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Yup, I def. jumped the gun. Anxiety is back, in full force, today. I guess I'll eventually go up to 60 mg. I am going to wait at least a month though.
> 
> Damn, I thought it had kicked in.


Get ready for some severe insomnia at 60mg, make sure you have a plan for sedatives before going up.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Get ready for some severe insomnia at 60mg, make sure you have a plan for sedatives before going up.


I already take .5 mg of Klonopin at night. I really don't want to have to add anything else to the mix. I guess my plan is to increase the Nardil to 60 mg in like a month and see how it goes. If I can't handle it, I'll go back down, and talk to my doc about getting something stronger to help me sleep.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I already take .5 mg of Klonopin at night. I really don't want to have to add anything else to the mix. I guess my plan is to increase the Nardil to 60 mg in like a month and see how it goes. If I can't handle it, I'll go back down, and talk to my doc about getting something stronger to help me sleep.


lol trust me you'll need something stronger. Try Klonopin + doxylamine, if that doesn't work you may need an antipsychotic such as seroquel. This is some of the worst insomnia i've ever experienced in my life.


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## mr t (Jan 28, 2010)

Try flurazepam (benzo hypnotic) for insomnia.

My doctor recently switched me to it because I was getting no sleep on every sleep med I tried (ambien, lorazepam 3mg, temazepam 60mg). The insomnia was killing me and I got only about *4 hrs of sleep in a whole week* on that crazy high temazepam dose!

Flurazepam has a half life of up to 250 hours so tolerance, rebound insomnia, and rebound anxiety is not really an issue. I combine that with 1.5-3mg of melatonin and I have been sleeping 8-9 hours a night and feeling very refreshed. The long half life can make some people groggy the first day or two but you quickly over come that. Another thing that's great with the long half life is that the effectiveness builds because their are still metabolites in your body from the previous dose when you dose at night. Feeling very fresh and happy with results. I took 30mg of flurazepam at first and it was not very effective, so my p doc put me on 45mg and I slept like a baby. After a few days my sleep continued to improve and I lowered back to 30mg and sleep just as well due to it's long half life.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> It's worked already? Wow. I've been at 60mg for 3 weeks now and nothing, except for unbearable insomnia. I'm starting to think it won't work for me


Sorry:no, that sucks. Thats really weird that its not working at all for you. I'd say keep at it for a while longer. It takes longer to kick in for some people. Hope you start getting relief soon. Did you ask your doctor about Seroquel? I take that before bed because of the insomnia, and I'm out like a baby. I don't take it every night though cause my body will eventually need a higher dose for it to work, plus it can cause depression.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm so freaked out about the insomnia. I'm up to 45 mg and haven't really experienced any side effects. It seems as if everybody who goes through this drug, experiences intense side effects for sometime and they eventually go away as the drug starts working. In other words, I will eventually have to go through some sort of intense side effects, whether that be insomnia or weight gain, before the drug starts working.

That, in itself, is depressing.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> I'm so freaked out about the insomnia. I'm up to 45 mg and haven't really experienced any side effects. It seems as if everybody who goes through this drug, experiences intense side effects for sometime and they eventually go away as the drug starts working. In other words, I will eventually have to go through some sort of intense side effects, whether that be insomnia or weight gain, before the drug starts working.
> 
> That, in itself, is depressing.


Yea, there is some side effects you have to deal with. But trust me, the relief that Nardil brings is worth every single side effect. I'd much rather have the side effects from using Nardil while feeling happy/normal, than having to live with my horrible debilitating social phobia and depression. Its DEFINITELY worth it to me.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I'm so freaked out about the insomnia. I'm up to 45 mg and haven't really experienced any side effects. It seems as if everybody who goes through this drug, experiences intense side effects for sometime and they eventually go away as the drug starts working. In other words, I will eventually have to go through some sort of intense side effects, whether that be insomnia or weight gain, before the drug starts working.
> 
> That, in itself, is depressing.


I feel the same way. As I mentioned if this were another ****ty ineffective SSRI there is no way in hell i'd be putting up with this severe insomnia, i'd be off it already.

The only reason i'm still on it is because nardil is supposed to be the most effective antidepressant there is for depression + SA. So I really want to give the most powerful one a try and suffer through the side effects if there is a chance of it working.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

shy-one said:


> I feel the same way. As I mentioned if this were another ****ty ineffective SSRI there is no way in hell i'd be putting up with this severe insomnia, i'd be off it already.
> 
> *The only reason i'm still on it is because nardil is supposed to be the most effective antidepressant there is for depression + SA. So I really want to give the most powerful one a try and suffer through the side effects if there is a chance of it working*.


Wait it out. It should start working. I don't know why it hasn't started to help you yet, but it will. Just give it time.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

Don't give up if it doesn't work for you either
I am cutting down on Parnate after 8-9 weeks and i was so disappointed at first that it did nothing that i felt like jumping in front of a train but there are other meds and we will find one that works eventually for us


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

blakeyz said:


> Don't give up if it doesn't work for you either
> I am cutting down on Parnate after 8-9 weeks and i was so disappointed at first that it did nothing that i felt like jumping in front of a train but there are other meds and we will find one that works eventually for us


Amen.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

I wasn't making fun of you with the "amen" post. Was just agreeing with you.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> Wait it out. It should start working. I don't know why it hasn't started to help you yet, but it will. Just give it time.


When did it first starting working for you? And at what dose?


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> When did it first starting working for you? And at what dose?


I started noticing a difference the 2nd or 3rd week on it at 45mgs a day. What sucks is now I've been taking 60mg a day and its helping alot, but my doc. only wants me to take 45mgs a day. I don't get it. Anyway, how many mgs are you on now, and how long have you been taking it? Have you still not noticed any kind of difference in how you feel?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> I started noticing a difference the 2nd or 3rd week on it at 45mgs a day. What sucks is now I've been taking 60mg a day and its helping alot, but my doc. only wants me to take 45mgs a day. I don't get it. Anyway, how many mgs are you on now, and how long have you been taking it? Have you still not noticed any kind of difference in how you feel?


Did you bump up to 60 mg before your doc wanted you to? Perhaps s/he just wants you to stay at 45 mg for a while before increasing?

I just hit my first week on 45 mg. I notice a little difference. Less anxious and depressed. I don't worry as much. But it's all very subtle. Still hard to tell. From what I've heard, people say it's like a switch goes off once it starts working. Maybe I'm expecting too much?


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> Did you bump up to 60 mg before your doc wanted you to? Perhaps s/he just wants you to stay at 45 mg for a while before increasing?
> 
> I just hit my first week on 45 mg. I notice a little difference. Less anxious and depressed. I don't worry as much. But it's all very subtle. Still hard to tell. From what I've heard, people say it's like a switch goes off once it starts working. Maybe I'm expecting too much?


Well, I started taking 60mg a day without telling him, and when I went to my appointment I told him I was taking 45mg like I was supposed to (he told me to stay at 45mg till I see him again). So since I was seeing him again, I thought he'd up my dosage to 60 cause he made it sound like the next time I seen him he would, but instead he said he wants to leave it at 45mg since I'm doing so good and possibly up it "once we reach that bridge", whatever that means.

It doesn't sound like you're experiencing "too much" since you say its "still hard to tell", but it sounds like its starting to work for you. You are less anxious and less depressed/don't worry as much. I bet you'll really notice the difference it makes once you've been on it longer and when you get up to 60mgs a day. When I was in the hospital a while back, they started me on Nardil at the dosage 60mg a day, so it may infact be that you just need to increase the dose some. Just speaking from experience.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

AprilEthereal said:


> I started noticing a difference the 2nd or 3rd week on it at 45mgs a day. What sucks is now I've been taking 60mg a day and its helping alot, but my doc. only wants me to take 45mgs a day. I don't get it. Anyway, how many mgs are you on now, and how long have you been taking it? Have you still not noticed any kind of difference in how you feel?


Wow, only 2-3 weeks at 45mg and its kicked in? You must be one of the few people where it kicks in so quickly at a low dose. Most people need to be on at least 60mg for 4 - 6 weeks before it kicks in. This will be my fourth week on 60mg and still nothing.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Entering my second week on 45 mg ...


Loss of libido sucks, and it's pissing my g/f off
I'm still sleeping about 6 to 7 hours a night but it's restless, broken sleep. I feel like I get much less, like 4 or 5 hours.
I guess I'm just going to stay at 45 mg until those side effects taper off before increasing to 60. Ugh.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

mjhea0 said:


> Entering my second week on 45 mg ...
> 
> 
> Loss of libido sucks, and it's pissing my g/f off
> ...


Sounds like me to a T... I upped to 60mg, from 30mg, when The doc said 45mg.... BANG, no sleep felt like crap. Came back down to 45 as was told, an am doing alot better. Sleep not the best, but was ****ing crap on 60mg. Will slowly work up to 60mg. I wonder if we increase the dose slow enough, if we can avoid the insomnia?

Though from what I've read on here, 60mg+ seems to be insomnia time, regardless of how slow is built up. Unless on sleep meds.:blank

Time will tell I guess.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

boostinggtir said:


> Sounds like me to a T... I upped to 60mg, from 30mg, when The doc said 45mg.... BANG, no sleep felt like crap. Came back down to 45 as was told, an am doing alot better. Sleep not the best, but was ****ing crap on 60mg. Will slowly work up to 60mg. I wonder if we increase the dose slow enough, if we can avoid the insomnia?
> 
> Though from what I've read on here, 60mg+ seems to be insomnia time, regardless of how slow is built up. Unless on sleep meds.:blank
> 
> Time will tell I guess.


I feel the same: no matter how slowly we take it, at 60 mg insomnia is going to hit. But I still wonder if it would be worth it to slowly increase to 60. Like do 60 every other day or something for a few weeks?

How long have you been on 45 mg?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Entering my second week on 45 mg ...
> 
> 
> Loss of libido sucks, and it's pissing my g/f off
> ...


No loss of libido for me, but I did get inorgasmia. Girls don't mind this though because it means you have more stamina lol.

As for the sleep, consider yourself lucky that you're getting 6-7 hours on nardil, I can only dream of that on 60mg.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I feel the same: no matter how slowly we take it, at 60 mg insomnia is going to hit. But I still wonder if it would be worth it to slowly increase to 60. Like do 60 every other day or something for a few weeks?
> 
> How long have you been on 45 mg?


When I first increased to 60mg it actually made me really drowsy and dizzy at first because I probably went up too quickly. So I went back down to 45mg for another week and tried 60mg again a week later. This time it was insomnia instead which is odd.

The jump from 45mg to 60mg is a big one, especially in terms of insomnia. At 45mg I was actually sleeping better than usual, but once I hit 60mg I was only sleeping a few hours a night. However this has got better recently as I can sleep as much as 5-6 hours which is considered a good night. I think you also get used to lack of sleep more after a while.

Yes the insomnia is horrific at first on 60mg, but it _slowly_ gets better after a few weeks. I would have some sedatives before making the jump, eg a hypnotic benzo + doxylamine. Seroquel might even be a better option if you can get hold of it and afford it.

Another tip is to try and take naps wherever possible, eg as soon as you get home from work or on the weekends. This will help you gain a few extra hours sleep.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

After seeing my doc today, we both agreed that increasing my dose to 60 mg should take place in a few weeks after my half marathon. He's a little worried about insomnia, as well. He gave me these suggestions, which I can try in this order, to help counter the insomnia if indeed it does happen-


Instead of taking .5 mg of Klonopin twice daily, in the morning and night, take 1 mg at night
Add in 1 mg of melatonin
Add in Benedryl or Unisom
Add in a stronger Benzo or Ambien or something of the sort
We also talked briefly about knowing when I'm at an adequate level. I mentioned that everything I've read has told me that you just _know _with this drug. He said that yes it's not as subtle as other anti-depressants but it's not going to be like "flicking a switch" as many people say. We came up with a list of questions I can ask myself every now and then to sort of objectify my experience, like "Do I feel more optimistic about the future?" "Am I more often than not feeling good about things?" "Am I worrying less" Etc.

Anyhow, I'll probably increase my dose around August 2nd.

My libido came back last night. The side effects from the increase to 45 mg have basically disappeared. I feel really good about this drug. I'm worried about my next increase, but I'll get through it.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

> Instead of taking .5 mg of Klonopin twice daily, in the morning and night, take 1 mg at night
> Add in 1 mg of melatonin
> Add in Benedryl or Unisom
> Add in a stronger Benzo or Ambien or something of the sort


Good to hear you're tolerating 45mg now. I haven't yet tried melatonin but might see if I can get some soon. I've heard that unisom is generally more potent than benedryl. When I take unisom I can barely walk to the loo if I get up in the night, probably because its a muscle relaxant.

My insomnia is improving quite a bit. I now sleep about 5 (6 if i'm lucky) hours a night without any sedatives, which is really good for nardil.

Unfortunately it still hasn't kicked in yet though at nearly 5 weeks on 60mg  I'm half thinking of going up to 75mg at the 6 week mark.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Good to hear you're tolerating 45mg now. I haven't yet tried melatonin but might see if I can get some soon. I've heard that unisom is generally more potent than benedryl. When I take unisom I can barely walk to the loo if I get up in the night, probably because its a muscle relaxant.
> 
> My insomnia is improving quite a bit. I now sleep about 5 (6 if i'm lucky) hours a night without any sedatives, which is really good for nardil.
> 
> Unfortunately it still hasn't kicked in yet though at nearly 5 weeks on 60mg  I'm half thinking of going up to 75mg at the 6 week mark.


Sorry it hasn't started working yet. I'm glad your sleep has somewhat stabilized. Good luck with the increase, if you decide that's what you need to do.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

I've been on 45 mg for about two weeks now and I FEEL GREAT.


I'm not worrying as much about things.
The depression has lifted, like the sun burning away fog. It's like it was never even there.
I'm optimistic about the future.
I'm enjoying the things I used to enjoy before the depression.
I'm engaging with people--and enjoying it.
I'm reconnecting with friends.
My confidence is growing. I'm smiling more. I'm enjoying life.
What more could I ask for? Is this medicine working? Yes. Could it work better at 60 mg? I don't know. I don't know if I've reached the drug's full potential, in other words. I'm going to stay put for now. I'm in a good place.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I've been on 45 mg for about two weeks now and I FEEL GREAT.
> 
> 
> I'm not worrying as much about things.
> ...


That's awesome man! I think it may have started to kick in for me today as well! Have a look at my thread for more info. You're lucky it worked at only 45mg. Did it only just kick in recently? If so, are you sure its the nardil and not just having a good day? That's what i'm unsure about. Only time will tell.

If I recall we both started at roughly the same time, except you're at 45mg and i'm at 60mg. So it must be around 7 weeks total for you as well?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Did it only just kick in recently? If so, are you sure its the nardil and not just having a good day? That's what i'm unsure about. Only time will tell.


It's still hard to tell, but this week has been great. You're right--only time will tell.



shy-one said:


> If I recall we both started at roughly the same time, except you're at 45mg and i'm at 60mg. So it must be around 7 weeks total for you as well?


I started on 6/11. So, yes, I'm somewhere between 6 and 7 weeks.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Still doing great ... well most days that is. About once a week I still get really depressed, which just so happens to be today. On days like today I feel like I need to increase my dose to 60 mg. But the other 5 or 6 days of the week I feel great. I have been sleeping pretty terrible lately. I'm going to try taking 25 mg of Unisom tonight.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Unisom didn't really work. Sure, it put me too sleep quickly but I still kept waking up in the night and I'm really groggy right now.

I'm depressed about the situation. I wanted to increase my dose to 60 mg next week but I don't think I should until I'm not getting any more side effects from 45 mg. Ugh.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

mjhea0 said:


> I feel the same: no matter how slowly we take it, at 60 mg insomnia is going to hit. But I still wonder if it would be worth it to slowly increase to 60. Like do 60 every other day or something for a few weeks?
> 
> How long have you been on 45 mg?


Hey I've gone back on to 60mg an am feeling ok.(only sleep aid I take is melatonin) It's clear I was just silly jumping from 30mg to 60mg to soon. I can sleep, maybe not quite as well as well as 45mg, but my body should be cool to learn to tolerate it better over time at this point. I am finding I am sweating quite a bit in the bed, even like a cold sweat wile lying in my bed with the aircon on high. Like I was cold but sweating, though am not %100 sure this was nardil related. Yea I guess any system that could help you ease in to 60mg could be good. Though I would never claim to be a expert. How long have you been on 45? I think it just needs to be taken slow. eg 30mg to 60mg masssive fail... no sleep, felt like ****. ect.. 45mg 3-4 weeks then to 60mg = ok. Still am looking to fell better, but think it just takes more time. Have come along way regardless.

also keep in mind, regardless of how powerful this stuff maybe, you will fell like **** an anxious with **** all sleep!!! :yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

boostinggtir said:


> Hey I've gone back on to 60mg an am feeling ok.(only sleep aid I take is melatonin) It's clear I was just silly jumping from 30mg to 60mg to soon. I can sleep, maybe not quite as well as well as 45mg, but my body should be cool to learn to tolerate it better over time at this point. I am finding I am sweating quite a bit in the bed, even like a cold sweat wile lying in my bed with the aircon on high. Like I was cold but sweating, though am not %100 sure this was nardil related. Yea I guess any system that could help you ease in to 60mg could be good. Though I would never claim to be a expert. How long have you been on 45? I think it just needs to be taken slow. eg 30mg to 60mg masssive fail... no sleep, felt like ****. ect.. 45mg 3-4 weeks then to 60mg = ok. Still am looking to fell better, but think it just takes more time. Have come along way regardless.
> 
> also keep in mind, regardless of how powerful this stuff maybe, you will fell like **** an anxious with **** all sleep!!! :yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes


I've been on 45 mg for about 3 weeks. The first two weeks went great. I was sleeping fairly well, but now I'm just sleeping terribly every night. I'm afraid it will just get worse at 60 mg.

How are you feeling at 60 mg? Has it kicked in yet?


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

I more or less felt better (then what I had been) as soon I started taking nardil.. I was in a major bad way. (hence thought **** I better do something or god knows what I'll do, hence internet research led me to nardil) I still don't feek quite on top of the world, but yea I'm pretty sure I'm feeling a slow improvment. Like most mornings I need a coffee/caffine hit to feel good, this morning I didn't take my coffee for a good wile, an seemed to be enjoying myself just doing my normal stuff. I think I have a way to go, but is very slowly improving. That's in relation to depression that is. With regards to anxiety, I'm alot improved. Like if someone is talking **** about me, I want have a problem to address a person an ask if we have a problem, vs been a push over in the past. I think it can take as long as 10weeks for this med to peak. So I read in a review by a person call spaceboy or something on here. Whom gave quite a good detailed review. I'm hoping/thinking I'll be the same. I'd just rock with 45mg for up another 4 weeks an go from there. 60mg is a bad idea if still having significant sleep issue on 45mg. Again, more time.


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

I've been on 60mg for about 2 weeks now. At first the insomnia was horrible. Some nights I didn't sleep at all, not at all. I took Seroquel a few nights and slept pretty good but that stuff makes me sooo tired in the morning. Now, the insomnia seems to be getting better. Last night I got about 7 hours, maybe a little less and woke up feeling good. And I didn't take any sleeping medication either. So, you are having bad insomnia, just know that it will get better. Oh, and I too experience the sweating while trying to sleep sometimes too. I hate that ****.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> I've been on 60mg for about 2 weeks now. At first the insomnia was horrible. Some nights I didn't sleep at all, not at all. I took Seroquel a few nights and slept pretty good but that stuff makes me sooo tired in the morning. Now, the insomnia seems to be getting better. Last night I got about 7 hours, maybe a little less and woke up feeling good. And I didn't take any sleeping medication either. So, you are having bad insomnia, just know that it will get better. Oh, and I too experience the sweating while trying to sleep sometimes too. I hate that ****.


What's your opinion on me increasing to 60 mg while I'm having problems sleeping on 45 mg? I'm getting about 5 to 6 good hours a night, which I guess isn't bad but I'm used to 7 or 8.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

Yea under 5hours is when you really start having issues in terms of brain performance, well been ect IMO. I'd say wait on 60mg for now, and with my experience last night, is probably relevant to you..

You say you slept well on 45mg for a week.. Though after a week is probably when the new 45mg dose would start hitting displaying it's potential side effects. ie **** sleep. 

So I've now been on 60mg for a week, an man I really didn't sleep to good last night. Not as bad as when I jumped the dose silly, though still felt tired, wile having the inability to FALL asleep. Hopefully my sleep last night was just a one off, though I have a feeling I'm about to feel the BIG 60mg effect :clap:clap:afr:rollin terms of sleep, after been on for a week.

I'd assume it's the same for you all the slightly lower dose. Though 5 hours is far from the end of the world..

You Americans an your sleeping drugs. lol Am I the only one not using them? haha(yes I'm jealous)


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> What's your opinion on me increasing to 60 mg while I'm having problems sleeping on 45 mg? I'm getting about 5 to 6 good hours a night, which I guess isn't bad but I'm used to 7 or 8.


lol only 5 to 6 hours? that's a good night's sleep on nardil. I was also used to 8 hours before starting nardil, but now i've gotten used to 5.

I guess you could always try going up to 60mg and see how bad it is. If you can't tolerate it then drop back down to 45mg for another week or two, that's what I did.

The insomnia does get a little better over time (after a few weeks), but you still won't get 8 hours. If I sleep 5 hours without any sedatives then its a good night. Sometimes i'll take benzo's which will increase it to about 7 hours max.

So far i'm loving nardil, but I feel like it could be better. I'm going to wait a few more weeks on 60mg then think about going up to 75mg if it doesn't keep getting better.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

shy-one said:


> lol only 5 to 6 hours? that's a good night's sleep on nardil. I was also used to 8 hours before starting nardil, but now i've gotten used to 5.
> 
> I guess you could always try going up to 60mg and see how bad it is. If you can't tolerate it then drop back down to 45mg for another week or two, that's what I did.
> 
> ...


Is 75 or 90mg considered the max dose?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> lol only 5 to 6 hours? that's a good night's sleep on nardil. I was also used to 8 hours before starting nardil, but now i've gotten used to 5.


It was about 4 hours last night. I guess this just caught me by surprise. This is my 3rd week on 45 mg. The first week went fine, and then the second week went really, really great. I thought the drug had kicked in. Huge decreases in depression and anxiety.

Now not only only am I dealing with the sleep issue, which I didn't think started happening for most until 60 mg, but the depression has really intensified and I feel like the anxiety is starting to creep back in. :sus


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

boostinggtir said:


> Is 75 or 90mg considered the max dose?


90mg


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> It was about 4 hours last night. I guess this just caught me by surprise. This is my 3rd week on 45 mg. The first week went fine, and then the second week went really, really great. I thought the drug had kicked in. Huge decreases in depression and anxiety.
> 
> Now not only only am I dealing with the sleep issue, which I didn't think started happening for most until 60 mg, but the depression has really intensified and I feel like the anxiety is starting to creep back in. :sus


I suspected this might be the case, you probably just had a bit of euphoria from going up to 45mg. The real deal doesn't usually kick in until you're at 60mg or higher for 4-6 weeks on average. For me it was 5 weeks.

Its working pretty well but I still think there is room for improvement. So I'll wait a few more weeks on 60mg then go up to 75mg if no further benefit.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> I suspected this might be the case, you probably just had a bit of euphoria from going up to 45mg. The real deal doesn't usually kick in until you're at 60mg or higher for 4-6 weeks on average. For me it was 5 weeks.
> 
> Its working pretty well but I still think there is room for improvement. So I'll wait a few more weeks on 60mg then go up to 75mg if no further benefit.


I'm so disappointed and depressed right now I thought what I was feeling _was _the real deal. When I increased to 45 mg the euphoria/mania didn't hit until about 1.5 weeks after I did the increase. I slept pretty good last night--at least 7 hours--so I'm feeling a bit better. I will probably increase to 60 mg next week. I just hope it doesn't affect my sleep anymore than 45 mg already is.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I'm so disappointed and depressed right now I thought what I was feeling _was _the real deal. When I increased to 45 mg the euphoria/mania didn't hit until about 1.5 weeks after I did the increase. I slept pretty good last night--at least 7 hours--so I'm feeling a bit better. I will probably increase to 60 mg next week. I just hope it doesn't affect my sleep anymore than 45 mg already is.


I know how you feel. I felt the same way when first went up to 60mg. Unfortunately you just have to be patient.

Do you have any benzos or antipsychotics? They will help.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> I know how you feel. I felt the same way when first went up to 60mg. Unfortunately you just have to be patient.
> 
> Do you have any benzos or antipsychotics? They will help.


Were you having trouble sleeping though on 45 mg?

I have quite a few benzos but I really don't like taking them. I'm just relying on Klonopin and Unisom at the moment. I may get some Ambien if I find I need some extra help. It's tolerable at the moment. I'm just afraid of what's to come.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Were you having trouble sleeping though on 45 mg?


Nope, but I was only on 45mg for 2 weeks. Strangely, 45mg actually improved my sleep. It wasn't until after going up to 60mg when the insomnia hit, but at first 60mg caused sedation for 1 or 2 days which is weird.



> I have quite a few benzos but I really don't like taking them. I'm just relying on Klonopin and Unisom at the moment. I may get some Ambien if I find I need some extra help. It's tolerable at the moment. I'm just afraid of what's to come.


I'm never touching ambien. I've seen first hand at people hallucinating on it and doing weird things in their sleep. Personally, that stuff scares me. But if you haven't had any problems it might be a good option because its a hypnotic.

Try and get a hypnotic benzo (better for sleep), and take it maybe every third day. For the other days you can take unisom. Klonopin won't be that good for insomnia because its a anxiolytic benzo, not a hypnotic benzo.

You could also try seroquel (antispychotic).


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## ThirdEyeGrind (Feb 7, 2006)

mjhea0 said:


> What's your opinion on me increasing to 60 mg while I'm having problems sleeping on 45 mg? I'm getting about 5 to 6 good hours a night, which I guess isn't bad but I'm used to 7 or 8.


Which medication are you asking about increasing? Nardil, or Seroquel? I think you're talking about Nardil....i think. If its Nardil you're asking about, first how long have you been taking 45mg for? If I was you, I'd make sure that I was taking 45mg for atleast 3 to 4 weeks before going up to 60mg. Are you planning on asking your psych. to go up to 60mg?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

AprilEthereal said:


> Which medication are you asking about increasing? Nardil, or Seroquel? I think you're talking about Nardil....i think. If its Nardil you're asking about, first how long have you been taking 45mg for? If I was you, I'd make sure that I was taking 45mg for atleast 3 to 4 weeks before going up to 60mg. Are you planning on asking your psych. to go up to 60mg?


Nardil. I've been on 45 mg for almost a month. It's already been approved by my psych. I'm just worried about the side effects.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I've been on 45 mg for almost a month. It's already been approved by my psych. I'm just worried about the side effects.


Just make sure you have sedatives, especially when you first go up and you should be right.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> Just make sure you have sedatives, especially when you first go up and you should be right.


I'm going to call my doc about that and see if he can call in a prescription for Ambien. You experienced an increase in insomnia right away. It didn't take your body time to get used to the increase in dose first?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> I'm going to call my doc about that and see if he can call in a prescription for Ambien. You experienced an increase in insomnia right away. It didn't take your body time to get used to the increase in dose first?


At first 60mg actually made me sedated and fatigued, but then it turned into insomnia a few days later. Nardil is a weird drug.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

So I got a prescription for Ambien. I talked to my doc today who said that I should definitely wait until I'm not experiencing insomnia as bad on 45 mg before increasing to 60 mg.

I'm actually feeling a lot better this week. Less depressed than the last, less anxious too. I'm a bit manic as well. Up, down, Up down ...


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

That's great news mate.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Still on 45 mg .. still having trouble sleeping .. still experiencing ups and downs with anxiety and depression

But overall I'm doing a lot better. 

I tried Ambien last night for the first time. I got 7+ hours of sleep, but I feel even more groggy today.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

mjhea0 said:


> Still on 45 mg .. still having trouble sleeping .. still experiencing ups and downs with anxiety and depression
> 
> But overall I'm doing a lot better.
> 
> I tried Ambien last night for the first time. I got 7+ hours of sleep, but I feel even more groggy today.


Hmm, sounds good mate. Keep in mind that I've yet to read anyone getting the full effect below 60mg. mine kicked in after been on 60mg for a few weeks. But of course you have to build up to that very slow, due to sides. Yea I've just gotten a few benzo's to help with sleep. Though you build a tolerance very fast. Also they but down, but dont keep me down to well. Are you taking Ambien as a longterm med? if continues to keep you down?? Do you tented to build a tolerance to it very fast? I would love to sleep that long on working nardil. As I feel great wen I get a good sleep on nardil. Be sure to get a good dose of caffine with waking all groggy. Should help a little.

Please keep us updated as to how the ambien goes for you. As may ask for wen benzos run out in about a week. Thanks


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Still on 45 mg .. still having trouble sleeping .. still experiencing ups and downs with anxiety and depression
> 
> But overall I'm doing a lot better.
> 
> I tried Ambien last night for the first time. I got 7+ hours of sleep, but I feel even more groggy today.


How much do you weigh? I would still go up to 60mg when you can.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

boostinggtir said:


> Hmm, sounds good mate. Keep in mind that I've yet to read anyone getting the full effect below 60mg. mine kicked in after been on 60mg for a few weeks. But of course you have to build up to that very slow, due to sides. Yea I've just gotten a few benzo's to help with sleep. Though you build a tolerance very fast. Also they but down, but dont keep me down to well. Are you taking Ambien as a longterm med? if continues to keep you down?? Do you tented to build a tolerance to it very fast? I would love to sleep that long on working nardil. As I feel great wen I get a good sleep on nardil. Be sure to get a good dose of caffine with waking all groggy. Should help a little.
> 
> Please keep us updated as to how the ambien goes for you. As may ask for wen benzos run out in about a week. Thanks


I don't plan on taking Ambien again for a while. I actually feel better right now on 5 hours of sleep from last night than 7.5 that I got on Ambien.

I know I should go up to 60 mg. I've been on 45 mg for like 6 weeks now. I just don't know how I can operate on even less sleep.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

shy-one said:


> How much do you weigh? I would still go up to 60mg when you can.


Between 150 and 155. I'm already sleeping pretty bad. Besides, I am doing so much better already. Highs are still pretty high, lows not so bad. I don't really want to go up if it's just going to mean even less sleep. I'm so torn right now on what to do.


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## boostinggtir (May 27, 2011)

mjhea0 said:


> I don't plan on taking Ambien again for a while. I actually feel better right now on 5 hours of sleep from last night than 7.5 that I got on Ambien.
> 
> I know I should go up to 60 mg. I've been on 45 mg for like 6 weeks now. I just don't know how I can operate on even less sleep.


O ok, may give it a try myself.

Yea, below 5 hours is when it gets really ****ed. Had like two 4 hours sleeps a few days ago, felt destroyed. No energy, no concentration, Driving reflex was dodgy ect..


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

boostinggtir said:


> O ok, may give it a try myself.
> 
> Yea, below 5 hours is when it gets really ****ed. Had like two 4 hours sleeps a few days ago, felt destroyed. No energy, no concentration, Driving reflex was dodgy ect..


Yeah I know what you mean. So, if I'm already only getting like 5 to 6 on 45 mg, do you think it will only get worse on 60 mg?


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Yeah I know what you mean. So, if I'm already only getting like 5 to 6 on 45 mg, do you think it will only get worse on 60 mg?


I would suggest you just give it a try and see if you can tolerate it yet. If not, you can always drop back to 45mg for a while longer and try again later, thats what I did.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Well, I just changed generics today, and I know I should wait at least a week to see how it affects me any differently BUT I went ahead and decided to increase my dose to 60 mg. I've managed to fall into a pretty deep depression these past few days without really noticing it until last night. Anyway, I hope I'll be feeling better in a month or so.


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## shy-one (May 10, 2008)

mjhea0 said:


> Well, I just changed generics today, and I know I should wait at least a week to see how it affects me any differently BUT I went ahead and decided to increase my dose to 60 mg. I've managed to fall into a pretty deep depression these past few days without really noticing it until last night. Anyway, I hope I'll be feeling better in a month or so.


Let us know how you go on 60mg. I've decided to increase mine to 75mg in a few days. That's as high as i'm going to go.


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

Brief update: I decided to stay on 45 mg. I actually went down to 30 mg for a week just to see what would happen, and my anxiety and depression returned. So, I know the drug is working at least. 

Due to Walgreens being a crappy pharmacy, I had to switch generics because their supplier ships whatever is in stock. When I made the switch, I started sleeping even worse. I'm averaging about 5.5 hours a night. Fortunately, my body has adapted. Unisom and Ambien don't help. I think I may ask for Restoril next time I see my pdoc.

All is well otherwise.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

mjhea0 said:


> Brief update: I decided to stay on 45 mg. I actually went down to 30 mg for a week just to see what would happen, and my anxiety and depression returned. So, I know the drug is working at least.
> 
> Due to Walgreens being a crappy pharmacy, I had to switch generics because their supplier ships whatever is in stock. When I made the switch, I started sleeping even worse. I'm averaging about 5.5 hours a night. Fortunately, my body has adapted. Unisom and Ambien don't help. I think I may ask for Restoril next time I see my pdoc.
> 
> All is well otherwise.


Have you put on any flab ?


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## mjhea0 (Oct 1, 2009)

blakeyz said:


> Have you put on any flab ?


I've lost like ten pounds. I'm eating less because I'm working so much and I'm running a lot because I'm not depressed anymore.


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## kev (Jan 28, 2005)

Ashwin said:


> Hi Boostinggtir, hows your experience so far with Nardil? Have you pushed up your dosage to 75mg yet??
> 
> Hi Kev!! How long have you been on Nardil?? Just remember buddy; the only way you can really see the anti-anxiety effect is to push up your dose to 75 mg/day (and you'll have to wait another *6-10 weeks after you start 75mg* to see real benefits).. I don't understand what you really mean by saying it works decently even at 30mg.. Can you describe the effect that you feel at 30mg?
> 
> ...


Hi Ashwin... I just saw this post now. I actually am trying boosting it up to 45 mg. and it seems okay - with no orgasmia. I will take what you say to heart --- I'm not a fan of anorgasmia, but perhaps it is necessary to weigh the options. And perhaps, the anorgamisa might go away after awhile (???). I will definitely think about what you said... for now I'm sticking with 45 though... we'll see.


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