# Self-treatment with kratom



## nanobyte

I'm currently treating myself with kratom. It acts as a life saver. Without it, I might already have jumped off the next bridge. It actually gives me some joy back and makes experiencing traditionally socially stressful situation easier.

Has anyone here any experience with kratom and SA?


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## longway

I've never taken it but there's a risk of losing efectiveness over time I think. how long have you been taking it? and how much do you take everyday? just curious.
It's great you found something which work for you. =)


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## nanobyte

I only take it in preparation for stressful situations. Tolerance is not an issue, it builds up very slowly and can be controlled easily - by taking several days off.


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## Formerly Artie

I've tried high-potency Kratom, and it does nothing for anxiety, at least as far as I can tell. In a way, it's a bit like Kava; a mild mood-enhancer at best, and may make you a bit pro-social, but that's about it.

I never have luck with these things for some reason.

As a side note, I find it interesting how Kratom is illegal to use in its native Taiwan, and a few other countries near that region. The punishment for using it is death I believe. Absolutely ridiculous.


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## nanobyte

That is indeed ridiculous. Word has it that they ban it because it is competition for illegal substances that sell at much higher prices (of which some percentage stays with corrupt officials...)

It absolutely works (it helps many beat various addictions). There are different varieties. For maximum effect, take it on an empty (!) stomach and wait at least 45 min. With some experimentation you will find the right dosage.


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## Guitar_Guy44

ive heard that its a weed substitute, does it compare to weed? also does it give u munchies?? and do u get it online or from a store???


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## nanobyte

It's most and foremost an anxiety killer / mood enhancer. You won't experience any strong highs with it by itself (e.g. you can't just sit in a corner with your eyes closed and enjoy the trip - it won't work).

Go to http://www.kratomforum.com for all your questions, they have been answered there dozens of times.


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## matt404

It's odd someone mentioned this here. I have something of an interest in gardening and growing things and I came across a website just yesterday that sells seeds of "rare and sacred plants." Kratom was one that I thought would be interesting to try to grow. Apparently it can grow to be a rather large tree that would do well in my climate. I hadn't thought of using it to treat my SA, though.


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## nanobyte

Really? Why? Does it look spectacular (the tree)?


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## matt404

It apparently can be a fast-growing and interesting-looking houseplant. Its leaves are shiny and ribbed, and if kept in the right conditions it produces kind of cool-looking spherical flower clusters.

Wow, I think this post may have the highest hyphen to word ratio of any I've ever posted.


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## Micliph

Was wondering if anyone else has positive feedback from kratom and anxiety?
I've tried it now and it works somehow. It does somehow ease anxiety but not much, but it makes it bearable to have anxiety and while under the influence of kratom (not intoxicated just subtle effect). It enhanced my mood so I don't get so while and after anxious situation.


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## asandscarab

I've had a lot of experience with kratom. I was a user of many different substances at the time, as I had suffered with depression and strong anxiety throughout my whole life. I was looking for legal substances that could help with my anxiety.

Kratom greatly helped with my issues. It made me euphoric, eager to socialize, and generally improved my mindset. 

HOWEVER, I began using daily due to the great benefits I was having. My tolerance rose, and I started to use high potency extracts. In short, I became horribly addicted. 

Kratom is a legitimate opioid. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's safe. I've been struggling the past couple of years just to get off of the stuff.

Sorry for the somewhat scary post, I just had to warn you that if you take kratom for anxiety, please be careful and only dose one or two times a week. If you get into daily use, you will become addicted, and its a hard drug to quit (at least it is for me).

Good luck, please stay safe.


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## fcbfcb

I noticed the other day that Kratom has made it onto the DEA's list of "Drugs & Chemicals of Concern"...

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugs_concern/kratom.htm


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## Micliph

Okay.. 1 or 2 times a week. I'll remember that, thanks..


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## n1kkuh

I'm gonna put this on my list of stuff that I want to try, especially if it might become illegal soon. How does it compare to an opiate high? The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of using raw opium as a possible once in a while treatment for SA.


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## n1kkuh

anyone have any experience with the extract form of kratom that they sell online? What's a good dosage for it?


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## flapjacker

I find kratom in moderation to be beneficial. Ive used it as much as 2-3 times a day for 8 or so months now. Currently I limit myself to once a day, usually before work.

It has some remarkable medicinal properties. That given, it can affect you psychologically if you find yourself depending on it. It can dehydrate you due to its diuretic properties. There's many factors surrounding kratom's benefits.

Another thing, for the unfamiliarized, therer are 4 main strains of Kratom. Bali & Indo (more sedating, relaxing), and Thai and Malaysian (this is stimulating, Malaysian is a more balanced mix of alkaloids providing stimulating and sedating effects.)

Just because it's not marketed by big pharm, I would not dismiss kratoms benefits. *In moderation*, it can be helpful against anxiety, stress, even sickness such as the flu (although kratom should not be your ONLY relief, it just helps to provide comfort).

Anyway, theres a whole forum dedicated to kratom (kratomforum). For those interested, I suggest you go and do some reading. I also suggest staying away from extracts unless you just looking to get a buzz. If you stick to plain leaf crushed or ground, youll find yourself hardly affected by tolerance or withdrawals.

Just my two cents.


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## Unlikely hero

Kratom is a opiate. I took the stuff once and felt so sick, like I took a bunch of perks or something. Im not reccamending it.


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## jamaica aroma

I've just ordered (anxiety xD) a Sample Pack 56 Thai-28 Bali/Indo - 28 Maeng Da powder.

I hope it helps with my social anxiety/depression. I'll report the differences between them.


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## MaddyRose

Does anyone know about reverse tolerance of Kratom, or maybe Kratom not working at all the first couple times somebody takes it? I've tried it twice since I got my order in and I've had no noticeable changes in mood or anxiety level. I really hope I didn't get some bum stuff 

Also if someone has some dosage guidelines that would be awesome if you'd like to share, perhaps I'm not taking enough?


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## Under17

MaddyRose said:


> Does anyone know about reverse tolerance of Kratom, or maybe Kratom not working at all the first couple times somebody takes it? I've tried it twice since I got my order in and I've had no noticeable changes in mood or anxiety level. I really hope I didn't get some bum stuff
> 
> Also if someone has some dosage guidelines that would be awesome if you'd like to share, perhaps I'm not taking enough?


It's been a couple weeks since I last tried it, I think almost all kratom online comes from the same few places, potency for me has been pretty hit or miss, first time I tried it I did somewhere between 2-4g of UEI, weak analgesia but potentiated naproxen so I could get a slight painkilling effect. I felt a little "high" like 2mg of klonopin does to me, mildly stimulated, and then started to nod after taking a bath. Not very euphoric but totally not addicting mentally. It was subtle but pleasant. I hear the physical addiction comes fast and sucks. Some people have to take it in doses of 10g to feel anything, and then sometimes the nausea is more trouble than it's worth. I always took DPH beforehand and didn't have too much histamine problems. AFAIK there's no set dosage that's one drawback to these herbal extracts.

Some people seem to think there's a lot of bunk going around, check your vendor on safeorscam.com (don't list it here of course) and try requesting samples from various other places if you think yours is bunk. I've been thinking about getting High Potency Kratom Isolate since I got a scale, hopefully it is more cost effective. I think the main reason kratom is not so popular is because it's too expensive and not always worth it.


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## MaddyRose

Thanks for the reply  Yeah the vendor I got it from gets pretty good reviews, so maybe it's just lower potency stuff. What I'm after is the increased sociability and stimulating effect, I'll probably only enjoy the sedating effects once in a while since it's so expensive. I'm not going to be taking it everyday for the same reason, so I'm not in danger of dependancy I think.

What I'll do is try it again soon on a totally empty stomach and follow the method to the letter, I'm crossing my fingers.


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## dennybird

*kratom and SA*

I was suffering from severe panic attacks and SA starting about 5 years ago and was feeling suicidal on a daily basis. I was alienated from just about everyone I knew. I discovered kratom about 2 years ago and it may have saved my life. Living in an extremely dangerous and toxic environment is a major factor in my condition, and I can't afford to move. Anyway, the problem with some people, as myself, is that the kratom was and is very effective, meaning that if the underlying conditions are not addressed there is a danger in becoming addicted to the kratom. When I ran out I experienced terrible withdrawal that included pain and anxiety at extreme levels, and a high fever. In the last two years I have had to triple the doses to receive the same affect as when I first started. I cannot afford to continue the kratom treatment and I fear the suicidal feelings that come with withdrawal. The underlying conditions continue as well as dependence on kratom. If you have an "addictive" personality you want to be careful with this stuff.


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## bikhuk

Great share Denny, frequent usage of kratom can indeed build up a tolerance and withdrawal symptoms can be serious as well. It is recommended to keep the dosage as low as possible and use exercise, diet and supplements to keep the tolerance under control. For example with a mixture of calcium and magnesium citrate supplements (or a good daily portion of green vegatables like spinach) you can keep tolerance a bit under control, when kratom is used in combination with potentiators (Pepper, Grapefruit juice etc), you can keep the dosage a bit lower as well. Another way is to use different strains of kratom from time to time, this seems to work well. But most important is to take regular " days off" , if you can.

I have used it for years and have had some of the problems you described as well, but when I started to follow the methods above and used it more wisely, I became good friends again with this herb.


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## FabledHero

Kratom's best effect imo is anti-anxiety. It doesn't get you really high like other opiates, it's different, it's really subtle high, but you don't feel tired etc, and you have very little anxiety on it. I'd definitely recommend using it, as others said though, you need to take days off in between to avoid a physical addiction, and also so tolerance doesn't develop too fast.


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## bikhuk

I can recommend Sumatra White Vein kratom, as the name states it is originated from Sumatra and especially the white veined leaves work wonders. It is available online (you can google my name as well for more information)


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## Ambivert

I bought some of this stuff at the local bong shop and tried it out a few weeks ago. wwwwoooooo it made me so incredibly mellow, this is what happens to a person like me who doesn't have access to a stable supply of pot to mellow out his anxiety. You look for interesting alternatives eh?

Except when I first bought I stupidly stuck it in my smoke pipe and tried to smoke it, doh! you're supposed to make a tea out of it not smoke it, it's most effective in drink form. But yeah it really mellows out, good stuff, only negative is the price per gram (19$ for a little packet? I better use it sparingly).


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## LALoner

I tried Kratom a few times. I could never be an opium addict because taking good poops is too important to me.


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## Micliph

Kratom works wonders for my severe social anxiety! 
Too bad tolerance develops and you have to take "days off" to get the same effect as before. But it increases much slower than i expected - much slower than for example Lyrica which also helps me very much, but with Lyrica tolerance develops soo fast..


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## bazinga

Kratom calms my nerves. That's the best thing for me. Being on edge from anxiety 24/7 is very draining. Xanax is calming but tiring. Kratom does a better job of keeping me relaxed and puts me in a better mood when having to be around people.

Without it I am just way too anxious ALL the time. I'm dependent upon it now though. I have been for probably 1 1/2 yr now. I am trying to stop and relearn how to relax on my own.


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## Attica! Attica!

I think I'll give it a try.. so spendy though


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## bazinga

If you are looking for relaxing, Bali is THE way to go. If there's too many side effects, try super indo.

If you want something speedy, try something Thai. Malaysian is relaxing/stimulating at the same time (although it never seemed to scratch the itch I had).

The best sedative extracts are UEI (Ultra Enhanced Indo). There are other various tinctures and extracts like ISOL. I recommend staying away from extracts. They are expensive and the withdrawals are worse than plain leaf kratom. UEI is fun though.

I can't really recommend it. It has addictive properties, and could potentially be dangerous for some people.

also this place is THE place for k info http://thekratomforum.com


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## bikhuk

Few (hopefully helpful) comments regarding the good advice above. 
"Bali" is indeed a more sedative strain of kratom, but it originates from Borneo, so sometimes its offered also as Borneo Red Vein, Kalimantan, Kali etc.

The Malay peninsular and Sumatra have a strain that is more uplifting and energizing, Sumatra White Vein is a very good alternative to the Thai strains (which are much more expensive normally), and the Green Malay has the unique features of being both uplifting and euphoric but in a relaxed and mellow way. (Check Bikhuk's Green Malay for the best deal around!).

As for the UEI's mentioned above, I would not recommend this, to often unfortunately the kratom is mixed with other substances then only pure natural kratom. Users on other forums have already reported side effects that have clearly nothing to do with natural kratom. So careful.

As for the Kratom forum, keep in mind that this is not a 100% objective place, its rumored to promote the interests of a select group of (mostly expensive) vendors. 
I can however recommend http://www.kratomconnoisseurs.com as forum, with objective and clear reviews on various sellers and products!


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## Recipe For Disaster

i tried kratom over the weekend. i only got mild effects from it, not sure why but perhaps i did not take enough. i'm planning to try it again at a higher dosage but i'm a bit concerned the nausea will be increased. i made tea with it and discarded the powder. i used about a tablespoon and a half of the bali. can anyone recommend how much i should try next time?


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## Dreamscape

I haven't found the right amount that I should be taking to get the best effect, but sometimes it does seem to help me feel a bit of euphoria, calmer, and a desire to be more social with people. Unfortunately I don't think I can even finish the rest of what I have. The taste... is just horrible. My mental expectation of it seems to get worse over time to where now even just the thought of it makes my stomach feel slightly nauseous and I can't really handle it. It literally makes me shiver in disgust when I take it now. I think if anything I'll have to put it in capsules if I want to continue at all.


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## bikhuk

Recipe For Disaster said:


> can anyone recommend how much i should try next time?


Nausea can be lessened by adding a bit of ginger to the mix. 
I personally like to drink my powders in this since it also hides the taste a bit.

As for dosage, that really depends a bit on the desired effects. I have a page on dosage and effect for indo kratom and malay strains here;
http://www.bikhuk.com/p/kratom-powder.html


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## dave88

*kratom not an opiate*

kratom is not an opiate opiate means derived from the poppy plant it is not it is in fact more closely related to the coffee family it acts like an opiate because it activates your mu opioid receptors this is why it relives pain depression and anxiety PLEASE stop saying it is an opiate it is because of people making that mistake that it may become illegal it is a wonderful plant and should maintain its legal status thank you please do research before damning things in the future Thank You :mum Sincerly a concerned kratom fan


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## pixies

I heard about this Kratom stuff today and I'm glad to see a thread about it on this forum.

Does anyone know of any potential harm when taking it with Paroxetine (paxil/seroxat)? I am wondering about trying to get some of this Kratom but if it would react badly with my meds then I couldn't.


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## aalina

To actually _treat_ anxiety its _self_ you need to do some fundemental work on your way of life and looking at life.. _Kratom_ is used for this purpos.


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## xoort

*Don't order kratom from overseas-customs is now seizing these orders*

Customs has been seizing these orders and the vendors are well aware of this but do not inform the customers. And then they take zero responsibility and say "that's your problem with customs."

Bikhuk.com is the company who stole my money and then ignored further inquiries. IF they were unaware of the issue I would agree, but they are well aware that numerous customers are getting ripped off and hide this fact. The contact person, Lucas, at Bikhuk is even quoted in an article discussing these seizures, but still no warning to customers anywhere on their website. 

http://www.thedaily.com/article/2012/09/01/090112-news-kratom/

Otherwise kratom has always worked well and been safe for anxiety, pain, depression, etc., for me. The only negative I've had w/it is upset stomach if taking too much.


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## Borisbmx

*wonderful results*

Hi All, ive had great results with this for 2 1/2 years. I take 4-ish gram before work in the morning or going to the gym to socialize. 
It does help you to be carefree somewaht. I buy the powder and use 00 capsules. I take 1 or 2 days off each week. Pricing: i have ordered from BHK and pay $99 for 28 ounces or 800 grams, far less then $10 to $15 an ounce many outlets charge. I usually split the package with friend so we each have 14 ounces for $50, a bargin.
All in all Kratom is probably in my top 2 along with Phenabut, with each doing its own thing. Nice to combine them!


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## Fieldsy

Kratom is NOT an opiate. Learn the facts before you spread lies.

Kratom is a lifesaver. Do not abuse it and it will treat you good.

Stay away from extracts. They build your tolerance. 

Bali is my favorite.


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## naes

I tried bali kratom from kratom crazy today for the first time. I took 1g at first on empty stomach and noticed the effects pretty suddenly around 1 hour after taking it. The effects were some lightheadness and a feeling really calm and just overall relaxed. I decided to take another gram about 15 minutes after noticing the effects and around 40 minutes later went out to get some food. I didn't notice any anxiolytic effects when i was getting my food from the restaurant but i did notice that i was pretty drowsy and super relaxed. It was hard to keep my eyes open lol. It's been 2 hours since my last dose now and overall i would say that bali kratom is really good for relaxing and being calm but doesn't have anxiolytic effects on me.


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## dcon94

I got some Kratom last year initially to help with my SA, it worked really well for one off occasions like giving powerpoint presentations at uni, I just felt really relaxed and a bit numb so I was thinking the usual distruptive thoughts, and that came across to the people I was giving the presentations to. I started to use it recreationally, just to mong out and fall asleep with whilst listening to trippy music, it feels pretty great to be honest, you feel amazingly relaxed, especially in your limbs. 

A couple of bad points though, like others have said you can't really use it every day, i wouldn't recommend using it more than three times a week, and that's at a push. It's not very pleasant to consume, i think i was sick the first couple of times i tried (but maybe that was just my method). And, I ultimately stopped taking it because I got really really ill for like a month and lost one stone in weight because I couldn't eat anything, the doctors reckon it was gastritis, and Kratom was the only change I had made in my diet or whatever you want to call it. Obviously I can't confirm that it was a result of Kratom, but it just made me really cautious of it, I do miss it though!


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## DerrickOdea

kratom has a strong effects on anxiety, mood and energy levels.... It is good for reducing anxiety level and help in panic attacks...
I had never tried this but have read somewhere about this supplement.


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