# Why do so many girls think they can change a man?



## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

They seem to really dig this scenario in which they fall in love with a guy for what he might be in their own minds, not for what he is. So they are convinced they will change him from a drunkard junkie ******* man**** into a loyal loving caring family guy. Of course, most of the time that ends up in a complete failure, but they still seem to have this pathological/delusional pattern of thinking. I don't get it.

Or they love to think that despite he treated all his past girlfriends like crap, it wasn't his fault. They just didn't understand him like she does. Or he will change for her cause she and her love for him are the only ones special and true.

What makes them act this way? Why feel the need to change people? Why approach damaged guys? Cause they think they can fix them, although nobody managed that in a lifetime and usually people do not want to change anyway? Why not look for the dream guy from the start? Is it in any way related to misguided maternal feelings? Do they like to play the rescuer?

(Yes, some men may act the same but women are usually in this position)


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't know but there have been times in the past when I would have been willing to try to change for the right girl. But honestly, I think it would have been a mess.


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## Mrs Salvatore (Mar 27, 2014)

I don't think this actually happens.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Mrs Salvatore said:


> I don't think this actually happens.


It does. Considering this is a mental health forum, I imagine more women from this site are doing it or have done it.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

[not the same thing, but I got reminded of the following]

I have an ex who changed behavior a lot while being with me(but that was not my aim). He used to be the worst "cold-hearted" player, but after he fell in love with me he became a puppy dog(we were together for 6 months). He had a very hard time getting over me dumping him, and called me crying for years afterwards when he had been out drinking(actually he even showed up at my house several times).


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

^^ "years"? Wow, and only together 6 months. 

As for the topic I don't think people consciously date someone with the intention of changing them into the perfect spouse, it's more a case of (unintentionally?) falling for someone who isn't completely right for you and as a result wanting to make changes for the survival of the relationship.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

@probably offline: If I am not intruding, why did you dump him? Cause he was no longer a ''badboy''?


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## Conviction07 (Aug 23, 2013)

sad vlad said:


> @probably offline: If I am not intruding, why did you dump him? Cause he was no longer a ''badboy''?


I second the request for details on this debacle. brb, just gonna go make some popcorn first.


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## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

probably offline said:


> [not the same thing, but I got reminded of the following]
> 
> I have an ex who changed behavior a lot while being with me(but that was not my aim). He used to be the worst "cold-hearted" player, but after he fell in love with me he became a puppy dog(we were together for 6 months). He had a very hard time getting over me dumping him, and called me crying for years afterwards when he had been out drinking(actually he even showed up at my house several times).


Is it because you're so amazing?


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## RayOfLight123 (Dec 4, 2009)

Some men need changing


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

sad vlad said:


> @probably offline: If I am not intruding, why did you dump him? Cause he was no longer a ''badboy''?


No. I'm not retarded. I never said that he was a badboy, either. I said that he was a player before we got involved. _He had sex with many women_, and didn't care to stick around with them. I made him wait for sex, because I knew about this. I had to make sure that his feelings were sincere(and they were). I got involved with him because he was a great and funny guy.



chefdave said:


> Is it because you're so amazing?


How am I supposed to know? Why don't you ask him?


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

RayOfLight123 said:


> Some men need changing


Your signature is a good example for the spirit of this thread.


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## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

probably offline said:


> How am I supposed to know? Why don't you ask him?


I think you did him a favour tbh.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

probably offline said:


> No. I'm not retarded.


Never said you are.



probably offline said:


> I never said that he was a badboy, either. I said that he was a player before we got involved.


''cold-hearted player'' is usually part of being a so called ''badboy''. Nevermind, this is not my field. ''Players'' of all kind usually make me puke.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I think there is a bit of idealization.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

chefdave said:


> I think you did him a favour tbh.





sad vlad said:


> ''cold-hearted player'' is usually part of being a so called ''badboy''. Nevermind, this is not my field. ''Players'' of all kind usually make me puke.


Why did I even bother replying to this thread? I even had a disclaimer at the beginning of my post, since I was telling a side-story about something else. Someome, who I wasn't trying to change, changed his typical behavior while being with me. We got together, and broke up, for reasons that I didn't even bring up. But yeah, I must be a horrible person for this(and him too apparently). He obviously can't have any good qualities if he has slept with many women.


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## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

probably offline said:


> Why did I even bother replying to this thread? I even had a disclaimer at the beginning of my post, since I was telling a side-story about something else. Someome, who I wasn't trying to change, changed his typical behavior while being with me. We got together, and broke up, for reasons that I didn't even bring up. But yeah, I must be a horrible person for this(and him too apparently). He obviously can't have any good qualities if he has slept with many women.


I think you must be pretty amazing if the guy in question can't get enough of you when you're lashing out every 5 minutes to anyone you come into contact with. Perhaps you're stunningly attractive. That's the only logical explanation.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

It's like I'm in some sort of parallell universe, where you get blamed for things you haven't even done.


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## eveningbat (Jan 21, 2013)

I do not really believe people can change. Maybe this is the reason why a lot of relationships break up - because the two people can not put up with some significant flaws of each other, and they can not change. 
As to your question why, I think it is because a woman wants to have a man by her side, some women may settle down with the men who abuse them (either by error because they do not know how to tell a good person from a blackguard or because they recognize and cherish some other qualities in those men, or for some other reasons). There might be different reasons.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

eveningbat said:


> I do not really believe people can change.


I tend to think the same way. It's in people's nature to reject changes just because they got comfortable the way they are. After a certain age you already have your personality well-defined and it is unlikely you will change it. It takes a huge effort to make even small changes, not to mention radical changes. People usually don't want to put any effort. It's a lot easier to blame the other person or ask to be accepted the way you already are. Or it's easier to pretend you have changed. At least for a while. The mask will crumble after a while.

If it would be so easy to change in a radical way, none of us would still be on this site, having all the mental issues that we have. We would just change ourselves with no sweat, no money wasted on therapy and medication. Just like that.

I think minor changes are possible, but in a long time and with a lot of effort. It takes all that to build a new alternative pattern of thinking and behaving(a new road to walk on if you want) after you were using a different boulevard for your whole life.


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## Imbored21 (Jun 18, 2012)

I want a girl that can change me for the better. Girls don't seem to want to change someone like me though.


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## eveningbat (Jan 21, 2013)

Imbored21 said:


> I want a girl that can change me for the better. Girls don't seem to want to change someone like me though.


What changes for better would you like to make? And how should a girl encourage you to change?


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## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

I think a big part of it is about protection. It's the same reason people like pit bull dogs. They like the fact that the dog may become become violent towards others if someone tries to attack the owner but the owner also loves the fact that the dog is completely loyal to only them. 
So basically the girl likes the idea of taking a "tough" guy and domesticating him to be loyal to only her but still leave enough toughness to the rest of the world for protection.


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## KILOBRAVO (Sep 17, 2011)

why is it always seen that its the guy / man who is at fault, and HE has to change for her ( on her opinion) 


anyone ever stopped to think that some girls / women should have to change their ways for the man? I bet not. Another example of the double standard of the days we live in.

Frankly, if some one cannot accept me for the way i am , .. then obviously then you would have to question your suitability or the other persons suitability... relation-wise. I see no reason to change anything about myself.


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## Fetchbarbie (Apr 12, 2014)

funnynihilist said:


> I think a big part of it is about protection. It's the same reason people like pit bull dogs. They like the fact that the dog may become become violent towards others if someone tries to attack the owner but the owner also loves the fact that the dog is completely loyal to only them.
> So basically the girl likes the idea of taking a "tough" guy and domesticating him to be loyal to only her but still leave enough toughness to the rest of the world for protection.


bingo.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Mrs Salvatore said:


> I don't think this actually happens.


Oh yeah it does. I've seen it a lot. My older sister thought she could make her sociopathic boyfriend stop cheating by being even more nice to him and spending all her money on him. Then she would go off about how all men are this and that, yet she would exclusively date arrogant dicks only. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, but it wasn't the first or last time I've seen something like that.

It wasn't until I caught him trying to have sex with some girl in my little brother's bed that she finally accepted it. Then a month later, she got back together with him thinking he had changed. Fast forward another few months and he breaks up with her to chase another girl. It was ridiculous, she acted like he was the only guy left on earth and there were no other guys to choose from.


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## momentsunset (Nov 10, 2009)

Love I guess. My friends bf treats her like crap, but she comes up with a ton of excuses for him. She's not a stupid girl, but I think her love for him blinds her from what's really going on.


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## M0rbid (Jan 11, 2011)

I love this thread. Sad Vlad is right on. We call it "The Twilight syndrome".


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## Cmasch (Jan 24, 2015)

It does happen, I've even had girls tell me this was their thought process. The ones who think like this don't seem to be the brightest though, and tend to date the same guy over and over and wonder what is wrong. This isn't all women though or even a majority, the people who do this are their own kind of special type lol.


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## Cmasch (Jan 24, 2015)

funnynihilist said:


> I think a big part of it is about protection. It's the same reason people like pit bull dogs. They like the fact that the dog may become become violent towards others if someone tries to attack the owner but the owner also loves the fact that the dog is completely loyal to only them.
> So basically the girl likes the idea of taking a "tough" guy and domesticating him to be loyal to only her but still leave enough toughness to the rest of the world for protection.


I've heard this said before as a theory and this one is always weird to me though, how do they know he is actually a tough guy. The guys I know or have met that actually know how to fight or are tough are usually quiet and sure of themselves, it's almost written into combat sports code. The loud mouth insecure d-bag type or the guy who talks about being tough is usually the last guy who knows how to fight or is tough. I guess if you fake it hard enough people will buy it lmao.


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## Raeden (Feb 8, 2013)

sad vlad said:


> Or they love to think that despite he treated all his past girlfriends like crap, it wasn't his fault. They just didn't understand him like she does. Or he will change for her cause she and her love for him are the only ones special and true.
> 
> What makes them act this way? Why feel the need to change people? Why approach damaged guys? Cause they think they can fix them, although nobody managed that in a lifetime and usually people do not want to change anyway? Why not look for the dream guy from the start? Is it in any way related to misguided maternal feelings? Do they like to play the rescuer?


You pretty much answered your own questions in your previous paragraph. They're women who want to feel speshul and needed. They want to believe that their super awesome strain of love is just what is needed to turn some loser's life around. If the guy changes for them, then it would validate their feelings of being special. They haven't become realistic enough to realize that people don't actually change.


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## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

Raeden said:


> They want to believe that their super awesome strain of love is just what is needed to turn some loser's life around.


I would agree with this IF they weren't going after a certain type of "loser". Girls don't want just any old loser they want a loser with a certain image and ones who fit into well defined sub-cultures.


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## M0rbid (Jan 11, 2011)

funnynihilist said:


> I would agree with this IF they weren't going after a certain type of "loser". Girls don't want just any old loser *they want a loser with a certain image and ones who fit into well defined sub-cultures.*


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## Raeden (Feb 8, 2013)

funnynihilist said:


> I would agree with this IF they weren't going after a certain type of "loser". Girls don't want just any old loser they want a loser with a certain image and ones who fit into well defined sub-cultures.


Well, the loser still has to make their ovaries tingle, and only certain types of dudes can manage that.


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

RelinquishedHell said:


> My older sister thought she could make her sociopathic boyfriend stop cheating by being even more nice to him and spending all her money on him. Then she would go off about how all men are this and that, yet she would exclusively date arrogant dicks only.


I've seen it a fair couple of times as well, though never as close up as you have.
I think there are many factors involved, but your post reminded me of things I've heard about cognitive dissonance.
I obviously don't know your sister, so take this as more general points, rather than something specifically related to her, but one reason why she might say or believe that all men are like that or worse, is because it helps explain to yourself why you are staying in a situation that is obviously bad - self-justifying is often easier than confronting the issue.
A variant is the "Ben Franklin effect", which states that when we do a favour for another person, we end up liking them more as a result, because this helps us makes sense of why we did a favour for that person. This in turn makes us more likely to do another favour, and yet another, and so on. The reverse is true as well; treating someone bad makes you dislike that person to help you justify why you treated them bad.
Those mechanisms can obviously lead to some bad or even dangerous situations. But sometimes people can get really trapped in these patterns and need help to break free. But that too is hard of course, as the self-justification can start pushing away people trying to help, claiming they're just jealous or mean and trying to ruin everything.

*Edit:*
Just in case it wasn't clear, these are things all people are prone to, so it's not gender specific. But it might manifest itself in more obvious or more extreme ways in certain scenarios.


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## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

Cmasch said:


> I've heard this said before as a theory and this one is always weird to me though, how do they know he is actually a tough guy. The guys I know or have met that actually know how to fight or are tough are usually quiet and sure of themselves, it's almost written into combat sports code. The loud mouth insecure d-bag type or the guy who talks about being tough is usually the last guy who knows how to fight or is tough. I guess if you fake it hard enough people will buy it lmao.


Absolutely! They are really looking for guys who tick off certain qualities that resonate with their biological impulses. 
This isn't a strategy based in logic, it's a strategy based in biology.
And the whole thing is wrapped in the warm blanket of feminine love so the strategy makes the woman look like the good girl who just loves too much when really she had a use for the tough guy all along. 
But the strategy usually fails because these guys are in demand and they often have mini harems, so the "love" of just one girl isn't all that valuable. 
However, I have seen it happen a few times where tough guys were domesticated into protectors/providers and the woman becomes a housewife.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

probably offline said:


> It's like I'm in some sort of parallell universe, where you get blamed for things you haven't even done.


Sadly, I think that's just the normal universe.



Raeden said:


> You pretty much answered your own questions in your previous paragraph. They're women who want to feel speshul and needed. They want to believe that their super awesome strain of love is just what is needed to turn some loser's life around. If the guy changes for them, then it would validate their feelings of being special. They haven't become realistic enough to realize that people don't actually change.


Kind of like the way many men feel that they need to protect or rescue their "speshul angels" from the big bad world? This attitude is equally delusional, but so many men adopt it that it almost seems normal.

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This isn't even remotely a gendered issue. Men are just as guilty of trying to change women as women are of trying to change men.

I stayed with an abusive partner for 5 years. You want to know why? Because I was young and foolish and I heard over and over and over again from everyone that relationships are hard and that they take work.

It's very, very easy to convince yourself that if your relationship isn't working it's because you're not trying hard enough. So you keep trying, day after day after day to make it work until you finally DO realize that it's a lost cause.

It's easy to criticize people who've been through this kind of thing when you've never been there yourself. I doubt very much that most of the people criticizing women in these kinds of relationships would have handled it any better than they did.


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## funnynihilist (Jul 29, 2014)

KILOBRAVO said:


> why is it always seen that its the guy / man who is at fault, and HE has to change for her ( on her opinion)
> 
> anyone ever stopped to think that some girls / women should have to change their ways for the man? I bet not. Another example of the double standard of the days we live in.


And this aint even the worst part! If a guy does change for a woman then many women will, over time, lose respect for the guy because he allowed her to change him! Makes you want to run right out and get married don't it? lol


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> They seem to really dig this scenario in which they fall in love with a guy for what he might be in their own minds...


Have you been watching rom-coms again?

Because women in real life don't have time for this ****.

And if she does... run.


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## Bored Alien (Feb 5, 2015)

truant said:


> Sadly, I think that's just the normal universe.
> 
> .


Yeah, she must be a special kind of privileged person if the concept of being blamed for things you didn't do is new to her.


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## Rainbow369 (Apr 5, 2015)

I helped change my boyfriend ..he had anger issues and was just plain nasty most of the time...but I knew that he also had a good side ..a very kind and caring one at that...It took me about 2 and a half years of fighting against his bad side but now he is totally different ! He treats me so much nicer and seems to care more..It was a battle but it was worth it..after a while I'd had enough and I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that i had to leave for my own good and he just changed...I think he realised what he'd lose if he didn't try and change. I don't believe you can change someone by yourself though...they need to want to change if you know what I mean ..


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> Have you been watching rom-coms again?
> 
> Because women in real life don't have time for this ****.
> 
> And if she does... run.


No clue what a rom-com is. Do you mean telenovela? I don't watch those at all.

Oh, but they do have time.


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## MoveAlong91 (Jan 10, 2015)

momentsunset said:


> Love I guess. My friends bf treats her like crap, but she comes up with a ton of excuses for him. She's not a stupid girl, but I think her love for him blinds her from what's really going on.


If she's being treated like crap, then wouldn't that count as being stupid because she's continuously accepting the bs. I've known many women like this, and no matter how crappy the boyfriend treats them, they keep running back for more of the crap. I never really made any since, but I guess it's because those kind of men genuinely show that they don't need their significant other, and we always want what we can't have. IDK haha. Doesn't make sense to me.


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## SamanthaStrange (Jan 13, 2015)

sad vlad said:


> No clue what a rom-com is. Do you mean telenovela? I don't watch those at all.
> 
> Oh, but they do have time.


Rom-Com = Romantic Comedy movies.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

SamanthaStrange said:


> Rom-Com = Romantic Comedy movies.


Oh, I see. Thanks.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

sad vlad said:


> No clue what a rom-com is.



No clue?


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## Mattsy94 (Feb 11, 2013)

I wish some girl would come along and try to change me.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

Rainbow369 said:


> I helped change my boyfriend ..he had anger issues and was just plain nasty most of the time...but I knew that he also had a good side ..a very kind and caring one at that...It took me about 2 and a half years of fighting against his bad side but now he is totally different ! He treats me so much nicer and seems to care more..It was a battle but it was worth it..after a while I'd had enough and I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that i had to leave for my own good and he just changed...I think he realised what he'd lose if he didn't try and change. I don't believe you can change someone by yourself though...they need to want to change if you know what I mean ..


Just because it worked out in your particular instance doesn't mean it was a good idea. My sister got involved with a drug dealer who dropped his gun in the middle of our living room and after him a guy who beat her, and then after him a guy who she got a felony trying to help... Its like she just kept taking in strays, trying to rehabilitate them, thinking that if she loved them enough and if they got some money in their pockets they would change, and all they did was **** her life up.... From having observed all the **** that happened to her, I don't feel that it is a smart idea to date "fixer uppers", usually doesn't turn out well


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## gunner21 (Aug 4, 2012)

Lol why was everyone ****ting on Proboffline?


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