# A different kind of CBT



## Formerly Artie (Jun 26, 2007)

As a few people might know, I'm a huge fan of magic and illusions, and one very obscure subset of it in particular - NLP, or Neuro-Linguistic Programming - is in a category all of its own. One might even think of it as advanced hypnotherapy, but without falling unconscious. While CBT and NLP aren't exactly the same thing, they can certainly be combined, as the following clips will demonstrate.

During my time here, I've noticed many guys have self-esteem and confidence issues, which is perfectly understandable, especially when it comes to the opposite sex. The clips are 20 minutes total in length, but what you'll see is very much real, despite the somewhat comical nature of it.

And please, no eating glass to gain confidence without adult supervision. 

Clip 1:

[youtube:2oz7c50e]lmL5scv32Z4[/youtube:2oz7c50e]

Clip 2:

[youtube:2oz7c50e]S57lr-WCjfE[/youtube:2oz7c50e]


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

IMO NLP is completely useless, and all it really does is make Paul McKenna and Bandler rich. I tried several NLP books (and something I else I will mention later) and applied the 'techniques' but TBH it just made me seem even weirder to people than I did already. The methods just make you seem bizarre. The more internal directed stuff never touched any of my anxiety or depression, and when I see these guys giving a seminar to 2000 mildly depressed housewives and doing Stage Hypnosis routines ("ahahaha!!! yes everyone in the room really IS NAKED!! oh HAHAHAHAAAAA!!") I soon realised it was a ton of ****.

If they are trying to combine it with CBT then this is because they finally realised that NLP doesnt do jack, and are trying to sell some more books. 

NLP is one very big rabbit hole that leads nowhere. trust me - I did an Advanced Practitioners course in it. You may experience a momentary lift when you first apply it especially when listening to Mr MCKenna's MOOOOTIVAAATIIING voice - but you will not experience any long term benefit which sticks. When i read Tony Robbins books, I noticed he had started to take CBT ideas and name them something else.

My opinion? Save your money.


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## Formerly Artie (Jun 26, 2007)

I know of Paul McKenna, and yes, he does do stage hypnosis and positive thinking. I'm not a fan of his, but what he does he does well, I suppose, even if there's nothing really deep about what he does at all.

Derren Brown, however, IS advanced in NLP, and nothing like the McKennas and Robbins of the world. What he does is something which can't easily be classified. I've been following what he does for 2 years, so I think I would know what I'm talking about.

And please don't take this the wrong way, but just by the way the phrased your entire post indicated to me that you didn't watch the clips at all - which is fine btw - you just bashed NLP and the lightweights like McKenna, Bandler and Robbins, but they don't really specialize in advanced NLP anyway, so bringing those guys up at all is a bit of a moot point. Given all that, CBT and NLP might not work for me, but I've discovered that they do work for many people *provided they have no neural chemical imbalance of any kind*, which is a important to remember. And yes, I do save my money on this type of stuff since it's educational and entertainment for me, while it may be life-changing for somebody else without a chemical imbalance.

If you're cured, Ross, of SA by reading books on CBT, then great, but I certainly wouldn't bash it simply because it doesn't work for me, which is what it appears you're doing with NLP.

Take care,
Jeff


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Im sorry if I seemed a little off - I just view any one who sells NLP, given my experience with it - as a hustler.

Over here in the UK, Derren Brown is considered in EXACTLY the same category as McKenna and Bandler. He is a stage magician whose act involves mentalism. He performs some incredible tricks, I think he's great. But what he does is still only magic, and if you ask anyone from the UK what Derren Brown does they would say he's cool, but wouldnt want him a s therapist.

There is STILL NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that the 'chemical imbalance' theory is true. People accept it as fact because they have heard it so many times on adverts, on this board and so on - but Its STILL A THEORY! No neuroscientist will tell you that depression or anxiety is 'caused by' a chemical imbalance. To say that is as good as saying "this will not work on anyone who is depressed or anxious". Yes the meds do the job, but they dont know why, and there is no current test that can tell you whether you HAVE a chemical imbalance, short of actually placing an IV into the brainstem (the way they do it with rats) because every one has their own set point. How then, would Derren Borwn determine who has one or not, and who it wont work on? Are you telling me that NLP researchers have actually done invasive surgery to measure the flux of neurotransmitters in the brain in several people to test this theory? 

Im sorry Artie, I like you and I like your posts, but in all honesty I think you have fallen for slick production and pseudoscience weaved in with some commonly accepted ideas. Im not attacking you personally, I just think that NLP should be consigned to the dustbin once and for all, especially as its had £500 of my cash and did nothing. Yes, £500. I did a full course in it, so Im not just saying this to be flippant.

Sorry dude but it will take more than a video to change my mind :stu

I was 'cured' by seeing a therapist and many years of hard work, not 'just by reading books'. I know I have made you angry, but please do not belittle the experience I have been through just because we are having an intellectual disagreement, okies?


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## Formerly Artie (Jun 26, 2007)

Hey Ross, no problem. I'll agree with you on some things, but disagree with you on others.

But first let me state that no, I'm not angry. It's not really in my nature to be angry unless somebody did me wrong (kick me in the groin or something). If I ever "appear" angry on here, then just think of it as being passionately opinionated. 

However, since the debate surrounding gene-inheritence and chemical imbalances can go the distance, I'll try to keep this short. While I do believe in both, it's the severity that certain people have of the imbalance. I've maintained to myself for a while now that a specific SA gene is bogus, but a predisposition to it is not. As it pertains to me, I've brought up the following before, but I think it's important to bring up again. Two of my relatives a generation older than me have a very similar form of anxiety that I have, and I'm sad to say one died last year due to his ~20 years of being literally housebound. From what I was told through word of mouth, he never went outside at all. He just collapsed one day as he went downstairs, and then died. My other relative, although faring a little better, is still languishing pretty badly. Both never had any jobs, never drove, and never had any friends, among other things. I fear the one who's still alive may die a premature death too, but unfortunately there's nothing that I can really do about it. And even though there's no way I can prove it, I'm fairly confidence I've inherited the same predisposed gene, and I'm definitely not having an easy time because of it. All three of us are from our grandfather's side of the family.

With that said, I will agree with you that behavioral therapy, or a similar therapy, will work for a lot of people if they're accepting of it, and if their fear isn't preventing them from going to it in the first place. I don't like to bring other members into a discussion, but Karl once said that he can never go to CBT because he's too afraid to. Believe it or not, I'm actually the same way. While I may be able to do it on a high dose of medication (the quick fix), it begs the question on whether CBT or a change in one's environment would be a permanent fix for anybody having such a chemical imbalance, especially on extreme end of the scale. The brain is the most complicated organ in the body, and I would be doing a disservice if I spoke about it as though I was an expert on it, which I'm certainly not.

Here's a reliable link which would seem to corraborate both of our theories:

http://www.socialanxietyinstitute.org/chemical.html

Given what is said, would CBT or growing up/living in a different environment work on somebody like me? Maybe, but only if I was on constant medication or if the amount of GABA in my brain didn't get absorbed as quickly as it does without it first attaching themselves to the GABA receptors.

I'll leave the discussion about Derren Brown for another time, but I'll just go to say he's far more than just a "stage magician", and I personally wouldn't even call him that. He has in fact literally changed people's lives around - not many people, but enough to prove without a shadow of a doubt that other forms of therapy besides CBT do work.

Btw, I'm sorry to hear that you spent 500 Pounds on something that didn't work for you. With the amount of money I make, that would really get to me too. However, I am glad to see that you did conquer SA in the manner you described above. I find that to be inspirational to other people who may never have considered CBT as an option, but just so long as they have no imbalance, else it would be a complete waste of time, money and resources in my opinion.


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## ~AJ~ (Jan 23, 2008)

they cut out everything he said when he was doing the only part that mattered!!!! they showed all the light bulb eating stuff, which has nothing to do with fears with people.
They showed that mirroring thing which once again has nothing to to do with fears. then they just zip threw the most significant part and cut out what he did to actually make the changes happen and he just briefly explains it!! why did they do that??!!


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## mountain5 (May 22, 2008)

I read some stuff by authors advocating NLP a while back and I was not impressed at all. My belief level in any kind of hypnotherapy is 0%.

For CBT to work at all you need to be drilling yourself on self talk and slow talk daily, a la the Dr. Richards program. I advocate that program because it does specifically hammer on that need for repetition and mental habit forming, and it doesn't expect you to come up with a whole game plan all on your own like so many CBT workbooks are prone to doing.


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