# Social anxiety is caused by low testosterone increased cortisol ratio.



## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

It's well known fact, testosterone causes dominant status seeking behaviour, also I read tons of studies that show test to go up when a team wins and test to go down when a team loses. This is major proof testosterone has antidepressant effects as it boosts your mood makes you feel alpha and causes neurogensis in the hippocampus( depressed inviduals have atrophy of this key brain region involved in learning and memory). Testosterone as I mentioned gives you that manly drive and confidence it makes you stand out from the betas. It's well known that men with social anxiety are betas as they run away from confrontation testosterone causes the opposite it makes you competitive. That's why pit bulls have higher testosterone levels than poodles. 


The other hormone I want to mention is cortisol. The stress hormone which is the complete opposite of testosterone in terms of its effects in the body and brain. Low cortisol and increased testosterone causes dominant aggressive brave kind if behaviour. High cortisol individuals have been shown to be the ones that crumble under pressure. 


These antidepressants and what not are all useless, I don't even think ppl can even comprehend how powerful your hormones are at altering your behaviour and mindset.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

I took Proviron which is a DHT derivative, which doesn't shut your production of testosterone as it's not testosterone but a more potent form of testosterone called DHT. Almost immediately my social anxiety disappeared. Not exaggerating hear, I had this dominant alpha male aura around me. Ppl were like scared of me, people were treating me with more respect and authority, on top that my voice was loud and assertive. Ppl would shut the mouths when I would talk I swear no exaggeration hear, I believe the reason why Proviron had such a powerful effect on my behaviour and mood was due to the fact that rhodiola rosea has inhibited my hpa axis. Thus Proviron having. Powerful effect. Also I've been walking around with a boner all day long.  also I've slept with 7 different girls in last weekend, I want to mention I had zero fear of anyone, I felt brave beyond words zilch social anxiety. I also have this scary crazy look in my eyes which makes ppl avoid eye contact with me as they are scared I mean I can tell ppl are scared of me because they act nervous around me. before I had this sad lame look.

One more thing I like to mention is that am not scared getting into fist fights any more, we're as before I would wilt like a pansy when ppl get aggressive, know iam the one making ppl wilt like a pansy, I believe ppl can sense my androgenic levels. Thus their scared of me. Also the idea of getting into a fight makes me excited all of a sudden. It's like I enjoy when ppl get angry it makes me excited. Wierd feeling I must say. At least to someone who used to suffer from social anxiety.


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## Kilgore Trout (Aug 10, 2014)

Very informative post. Thanks.
I have always been a bit girlish, and am attracted to some boys. I'm pretty sure i have below-normal masculine hormones.


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## simon234 (Jul 10, 2014)

What dose you taking?


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

50mg each day of Proviron. Remember Proviron is DHT much more androgenic than testosterone.


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## Caedmon (Dec 14, 2003)

Buckyx said:


> this combination doesnt do anything good, poisoned body, mentally and physically you suffer from that of course


Mustafa is a troll that takes 50% real information and mixes it with 50% nonsense.

_Caveat lector_


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## PaulAlexander (Apr 29, 2014)

What a load of **** lol!
You do realise DHT is what causes male pattern baldness right?


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

PaulAlexander said:


> What a load of **** lol!
> You do realise DHT is what causes male pattern baldness right?


DHT is the strongest androgen. If you think about it where do you think DHT comes from? Testosterone is useless unless it doesn't get converted to DHT. Most of testosterone effects except for red blood synthesis and protein synthesis is controlled by DHT.

Btw mpb is not caused by high DHT or testosterone. In fact DHT levels go down as men go older. Young men have higher DHT than old men, know tell me which group suffers most from DHT

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15219653

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15251256

DHT is testosterone metabolite, without testosterone getting converted into DHT their is no hippocamal neurogenesis. The fact of the matter is no amount ssri or any other garbage will ever cure you, in fact they will make things much worse.


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## yukn (Jun 30, 2013)

Maybe for some people, SA can be explained by low testosterone, but certainly not all. How does that explain really effeminate guys or women who have outgoing personalities? Being outgoing and a tough guy aren't mutually inclusive. I know plenty of extroverts who would be terrified of physical confrontation, and my anxiety in social situations isn't due to thinking the other person is stronger or a better fighter.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

No wonder, it's because the teams here lose constantly and cause a lot of stress.


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## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

> tons of studies that show test to go up when a team wins and test to go down when a team loses. This is major proof testosterone has antidepressant effects as it boosts your mood makes you feel alpha


This would seem to suggest that testosterone is released because of your mood, rather than testosterone causing your mood.


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## PaulAlexander (Apr 29, 2014)

Mustafa said:


> DHT is the strongest androgen. If you think about it where do you think DHT comes from? Testosterone is useless unless it doesn't get converted to DHT. Most of testosterone effects except for red blood synthesis and protein synthesis is controlled by DHT.
> 
> Btw mpb is not caused by high DHT or testosterone. In fact DHT levels go down as men go older. Young men have higher DHT than old men, know tell me which group suffers most from DHT
> 
> ...


 Well as someone who has been on both Testosterone cream and SSRI's - I would choose SSRI's any day. I'm basing this on personal experience and not on anecdotal evidence.

I've had my testosterone levels checked before and after being on SSRI's. Testosterone levels were higher after being on SSRI's for some time. It would seem my hormone levels corrected themselves due to relief in stress levels due to the SSRI's working. Even more so being on Nardil.

I'm not denying that there is some correlation between cortisol and T levels but to say that SSRI's make it worse is definitely far fetched.


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## DeafBoy36 (Dec 12, 2009)

that's not true. I have HIGH testosterone level, always have HIGH libido pretty much since puberty. So that has nothing to do with SA. It always has been HIGH regardless of EVERY medication I have been on and I have taken a lot. 

In fact, mine's near at the end range of the normal range for testosterone level.

Cortisol, on the other hand, yes.


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## simon234 (Jul 10, 2014)

Well you only need to search Google and the bodybuilding forums to see the reports that DHT's improve well being and confidence.

Whether it's any good for SA or you general, I suspect only one way to find out.


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## TabbyTab (Oct 27, 2013)

Does this only apply to guys?


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

DeafBoy36 said:


> that's not true. I have HIGH testosterone level, always have HIGH libido pretty much since puberty. So that has nothing to do with SA. It always has been HIGH regardless of EVERY medication I have been on and I have taken a lot.
> 
> In fact, mine's near at the end range of the normal range for testosterone level.
> 
> Cortisol, on the other hand, yes.


Then yes your high cortisol is canceling out testosterone effects on your mood and behaviour. Your testosterone levels should be higher than your cortisol levels.


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

I am sorry to say, that is horribly stupid. Aside from the testosterone increase, (which I do agree can cause aggressive behavior). It has to do with one's perceptions, which is psychological and mental. For example, some people on this site are extremely "built" muscularly (at least by their profiles or picture uploads) many lift weights and such as well or practice martial arts, etc. Being "loud and assertive" and walking around with a boner isn't a solution, it's being obnoxious, irresponsible, and everything you probably once hated because you envied lol.

None of those things have anything to do with one's self-perception and ability to "connect" socially with other human beings on a similar level. Take soldiers for example that suffer from PTSD, that often results in Major Depression, Depersonalization, and symptoms similar to Social Anxiety or Agoraphobia because of the detachment and inability to connect with others.

In short, it's not about "dominating" anyone, or being an "alpha" those are horrid terms for ignorant people. It's about treating people as equals, and connecting on a similar level in terms of interests or in a general sense of socializing. Which often causes one to be "comfortable" with other people, often times through similar experiences, etc. However, even then, Social Anxiety is something that is often times within the person on an individual level from past negative experiences, perceptions, or overall discomfort and irrational fear. Which also could be a "fear of failure" in many cases, and self-pressure for an idealized notion of standards of behavior or many other reasons. There is no one cause for it, as many people here seem to suffer from quite the different life experiences, other psychological issues, all under the same umbrella term of "Social Anxiety".


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Being alpha and being dominant go hand in hand. Testosterone makes you competitive and dominant. I think you mean arrogant not ignorant two different words. No testosterone doesn't make you arrogant like as if your superior but it causes dominant behaviour in the way you behave especially around other men. It. Testosterone doesn't cause aggressive behaviour, it causes dominance which usually leads to aggression, for example a male lion would usually kill the cub of another male lion so he could be the alpha and the dominant one, this is a aggressive behaviour but their is a reason why. Testosterone doesn't make you aggressive and angry for no reason like a 12 year old girl on the periods, that's. myth the media try's to put out. Testosterone is the most powerful antidepressant in the male body only if cortisol levels are low, if cortisol is high it cancels most of the testosterone effects on your mood, behaviour and body.


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## Learydp01 (May 2, 2013)

Another person obsessed with Alpha/Beta theory... sigh. Look, I can see how being overly submissive could contribute to social anxiety, but it's far from the only reason. Either way, you're kidding yourself if you think reading some study instantly means its a "well known fact." Good luck with that philosophy.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Learydp01 said:


> Another person obsessed with Alpha/Beta theory... sigh. Look, I can see how being overly submissive could contribute to social anxiety, but it's far from the only reason. Either way, you're kidding yourself if you think reading some study instantly means its a "well known fact." Good luck with that philosophy.


Thank you :clap


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## WillCedar (Feb 25, 2013)

I can attest to the fact that Mustafa is a troll. I used to take him seriously and took his advice in the past. I actually purchased magnesium oil and rhodiola rosea because he was raving about them saying it would cure your social anxiety, and looking for any relief I used them every day for 4 months. Didn't help one bit. Don't listen to this guy. Lessons learned!


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## BeautifulSilence (Nov 18, 2014)

Mustafa said:


> DHT is the strongest androgen. If you think about it where do you think DHT comes from? Testosterone is useless unless it doesn't get converted to DHT. Most of testosterone effects except for red blood synthesis and protein synthesis is controlled by DHT.
> 
> Btw mpb is not caused by high DHT or testosterone. In fact DHT levels go down as men go older. Young men have higher DHT than old men, know tell me which group suffers most from DHT
> 
> ...


How does DHT control hippocampal neurogenesis and what relevance does this have?


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

It's an oversimplification to claim that there's one same cure for everyone.

On the other hand, hormones can clearly affect one's mental health when these are out of whack. Checking for imbalances is not done nearly as much as it should be - instead prozac is the first line of treatment. Psychiatrists have tunnel vision: they only care to analyze patients' thought processes and finding drugs which seem to fit the symptoms via guesswork.

I have a testosterone deficiency and in February I'm seeing my doc again, to see if it's time to finally go on TRT. We'll see if it helps with SA & depression.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

BeautifulSilence said:


> How does DHT control hippocampal neurogenesis and what relevance does this have?


Well you see depressed ppl have smaller hippocampuses than non depressed ppl. Alzheimer's disease first attacks the hippocampus, in fact most of the memory deficits from this disease is caused by dysfunctional hippocampus. Exercise increases DHT in the hippocampus which causes neurogenesis. You see DHT is 10 more potent than test and can suppress cortisol which has a anti neurogenesis effect on this key brain region involved in memory and learning.

Marijuana users have been shown to have smaller hippocampuses than non my users. This could partly been due to the fact that mj has anti androgen effects.also marijuana raises cortisol the stress hormone which can shrink the hippocampus.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> It's an oversimplification to claim that there's one same cure for everyone.
> 
> On the other hand, hormones can clearly affect one's mental health when these are out of whack. Checking for imbalances is not done nearly as much as it should be - instead prozac is the first line of treatment. Psychiatrists have tunnel vision: they only care to analyze patients' thought processes and finding drugs which seem to fit the symptoms via guesswork.
> 
> I have a testosterone deficiency and in February I'm seeing my doc again, to see if it's time to finally go on TRT. We'll see if it helps with SA & depression.


Don't take testosterone, take a DHT derivative like Proviron.


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## BeautifulSilence (Nov 18, 2014)

Mustafa said:


> Well you see depressed ppl have smaller hippocampuses than non depressed ppl. Alzheimer's disease first attacks the hippocampus, in fact most of the memory deficits from this disease is caused by dysfunctional hippocampus. Exercise increases DHT in the hippocampus which causes neurogenesis. You see DHT is 10 more potent than test and can suppress cortisol which has a anti neurogenesis effect on this key brain region involved in memory and learning.
> 
> Marijuana users have been shown to have smaller hippocampuses than non my users. This could partly been due to the fact that mj has anti androgen effects.also marijuana raises cortisol the stress hormone which can shrink the hippocampus.


Thanks for this, I'm still a bit confused about what you're saying though. I understand the role of the hippocampus, what I don't understand is how you're linking neurogenesis as a result of exercise to SA or depression. Neurogenesis occurs in the absence of DHT, it just doesn't increase after exercise in the absence of DHT -is this correct? And if someone doesn't exercise they'd never have this increase, so how can DHT be that relevant? 
I know that some antidepressants are though to work through increasing neurogenesis, But if DHT only increases neurogenesis after exercise this won't be relevant to most people.
Generally memories are formed by increasing the strength of synapses, forming networks and pathways. Neurogenesis promotes the formation of new memories but also 'erases' old memories - the extensive neurogenesis in infants is thought to be why they don't remember things. Do you know how memories are thought to link to depression? (Besides the smaller hippocampus)


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## Umpalumpa (Jan 26, 2014)

How many camels would it cost me?


To anyone who take this seriously, a little advice... Dont listen to people online when it comes to medication.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Mustafa said:


> Don't take testosterone, take a DHT derivative like Proviron.


I don't doubt that DHT is a great compound. It's been used as an anti-depressant to treat dysthymia in the 80s if I remember.

However, getting my hands on Proviron would be too much trouble.

Plus, DHT isn't near as anabolic as testosterone. If I take testosterone, it'll help me build mass and a chunk of that T is going to convert to DHT anyways.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

BeautifulSilence said:


> Thanks for this, I'm still a bit confused about what you're saying though. I understand the role of the hippocampus, what I don't understand is how you're linking neurogenesis as a result of exercise to SA or depression. Neurogenesis occurs in the absence of DHT, it just doesn't increase after exercise in the absence of DHT -is this correct? And if someone doesn't exercise they'd never have this increase, so how can DHT be that relevant?
> I know that some antidepressants are though to work through increasing neurogenesis, But if DHT only increases neurogenesis after exercise this won't be relevant to most people.
> Generally memories are formed by increasing the strength of synapses, forming networks and pathways. Neurogenesis promotes the formation of new memories but also 'erases' old memories - the extensive neurogenesis in infants is thought to be why they don't remember things. Do you know how memories are thought to link to depression? (Besides the smaller hippocampus)


We'll exercise can relieve depression because not only can it increase your hippocamal volume but it makes you shed body fat.

Low body fat = low cortisol


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## BeautifulSilence (Nov 18, 2014)

Mustafa said:


> We'll exercise can relieve depression because not only can it increase your hippocamal volume but it makes you shed body fat.
> 
> Low body fat = low cortisol


This theory is very flawed. And low body fat doesn't mean low cortisol.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

BeautifulSilence said:


> This theory is very flawed. And low body fat doesn't mean low cortisol.


Ok


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> I don't doubt that DHT is a great compound. It's been used as an anti-depressant to treat dysthymia in the 80s if I remember.
> 
> However, getting my hands on Proviron would be too much trouble.
> 
> Plus, DHT isn't near as anabolic as testosterone. If I take testosterone, it'll help me build mass and a chunk of that T is going to convert to DHT anyways.


Whatever floats your boat.


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Mustafa said:


> Being alpha and being dominant go hand in hand. Testosterone makes you competitive and dominant. I think you mean arrogant not ignorant two different words. No testosterone doesn't make you arrogant like as if your superior but it causes dominant behaviour in the way you behave especially around other men. It. Testosterone doesn't cause aggressive behaviour, it causes dominance which usually leads to aggression, for example a male lion would usually kill the cub of another male lion so he could be the alpha and the dominant one, this is a aggressive behaviour but their is a reason why. Testosterone doesn't make you aggressive and angry for no reason like a 12 year old girl on the periods, that's. myth the media try's to put out. Testosterone is the most powerful antidepressant in the male body only if cortisol levels are low, if cortisol is high it cancels most of the testosterone effects on your mood, behaviour and body.


That is not necessarily true. There are many "alphas" to use your lingo, which are not dominant in any sense of the word. Respect is gained and given based on moral integrity, emotional intelligence, creative expression, intellectual capacity, and wide array of other things. For example, we can look at female Politicians, Doctors, Lawyers, CEO's, or other leaders in whatever field is the expertise. In your theory, would they be considered "alpha females" with a lot of testosterone? Even though many are quite feminine.

No I don't mean arrogant, I mean ignorant, as in using terminology to show one's lack of understanding in psychology or social dynamics. Or a total lack of respect for individuality, and either gender to designate people as "alphas" and "betas". That sort of mentality just shows a simple mentality and tunnel vision towards a broader perspective that people are different.

A male lion is a male lion, it's instinctual for the most part for their survival. Lion's are predators, carnivores, and live within a pack lol, which has nothing to do with human behavior.

Depression is caused by a wide variety different circumstances and cannot be boxed in by a "lack of testosterone". Some men who have extreme amounts also suffer from depression because of many of the reasons I mentioned above. A lot of it is self-perception, past experiences, or inability to connect to others. As well as more abstract types such as existential depression.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

Zyriel said:


> That is not necessarily true. There are many "alphas" to use your lingo, which are not dominant in any sense of the word. Respect is gained and given based on moral integrity, emotional intelligence, creative expression, intellectual capacity, and wide array of other things. For example, we can look at female Politicians, Doctors, Lawyers, CEO's, or other leaders in whatever field is the expertise. In your theory, would they be considered "alpha females" with a lot of testosterone? Even though many are quite feminine.
> 
> No I don't mean arrogant, I mean ignorant, as in using terminology to show one's lack of understanding in psychology or social dynamics. Or a total lack of respect for individuality, and either gender to designate people as "alphas" and "betas". That sort of mentality just shows a simple mentality and tunnel vision towards a broader perspective that people are different.
> 
> ...


Cool story dude. :clap


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Mustafa said:


> Cool story dude. :clap


I'm glad you agree, I'm not the epitome of cool like you though


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

Mustafa said:


> I took Proviron which is a DHT derivative, which doesn't shut your production of testosterone as it's not testosterone but a more potent form of testosterone called DHT. Almost immediately my social anxiety disappeared. Not exaggerating hear, I had this dominant alpha male aura around me. Ppl were like scared of me, people were treating me with more respect and authority, on top that my voice was loud and assertive. Ppl would shut the mouths when I would talk I swear no exaggeration hear, I believe the reason why Proviron had such a powerful effect on my behaviour and mood was due to the fact that rhodiola rosea has inhibited my hpa axis. Thus Proviron having. Powerful effect. Also I've been walking around with a boner all day long.  also I've slept with 7 different girls in last weekend, I want to mention I had zero fear of anyone, I felt brave beyond words zilch social anxiety. I also have this scary crazy look in my eyes which makes ppl avoid eye contact with me as they are scared I mean I can tell ppl are scared of me because they act nervous around me. before I had this sad lame look.
> 
> One more thing I like to mention is that am not scared getting into fist fights any more, we're as before I would wilt like a pansy when ppl get aggressive, know iam the one making ppl wilt like a pansy, I believe ppl can sense my androgenic levels. Thus their scared of me. Also the idea of getting into a fight makes me excited all of a sudden. It's like I enjoy when ppl get angry it makes me excited. Wierd feeling I must say. At least to someone who used to suffer from social anxiety.


Does this resemble a stimulant/C high?


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

however, to cut a long story short, according to mustafa's theory depression and SA are symptoms of hypogonadism, is that right?


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

Mr Bacon said:


> I don't doubt that DHT is a great compound. It's been used as an anti-depressant to treat dysthymia in the 80s if I remember.


Perhaps big pharma would reintroduce it to treat depression and spread a prostate cancer epidemic among depressed oupatients, causing a overall drop in depression rates worldwide.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

swim said:


> Perhaps big pharma would reintroduce it to treat depression and spread a prostate cancer epidemic among depressed oupatients, causing a overall drop in depression rates worldwide.


Prostrate cancer is not related to dht levels or testosterone. Prostrate cancer is caused by estrogen. Read it on pubmed.


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## Smanguaru (Jan 9, 2015)

I heard that testosterone supplements are also good for increasing your muscle mass and promoting leanness. 

I've heard it's desirable for both men and women who are involved in fitness. And I think alongside exercise, it should theoretically increase confidence levels too


Very interesting post here


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## skyisblue (Nov 7, 2014)

I have seen this before firsthand, testosterone may have an impact. It does seem to me that almost every guy I have been around has more testosterone than me. 

What I have found weird is that my voice has pretty good bass so it makes me wonder what my testosterone level is. I guess I don't know much about that. 

What I do know is most guys are more aggressive than me from a social level, and I can't help but wonder if that is due to more testosterone. Most guys have been more competitive than me on a social level.

My own theory on people who have extreme SA (enough to where it effects their life in a considerable way) is that they have a problem with muscle tension. I would say that's the biggest reason for SA from what I've seen, as from what I've noticed, people who are shy don't look as relaxed as the extrovert outgoing crowd. This goes for both genders. 

What I'm saying is I believe the main cause for SA is lack of relaxation, and the main cause for extroversion and constant talking is relaxation. 

I do believe for men, the stoppage of testosterone and muscle tension are relative. A guy that can't relax as well as most men will not be able to properly use testosterone he has.

I could go on, but I'll stop here. The last thing I want to point out is that as a kid I obviously didn't get enough T because my body didn't fill out like the majority of guys and honestly my penis never really grew. No that's not a joke, it's just an honest assessment of how I didn't get enough T as a child at least....which definitely supports what you are saying that low T is a factor. 

The thing i do find interesting is that obviously not every guy who has SA has a small unit, so I do believe there are other factors besides testosterone that are involved in SA.

I'm not sure what my T level is now in my life. I wouldn't be surprised if it is low.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

Mustafa said:


> The other hormone I want to mention is cortisol. The stress hormone which is the complete opposite of testosterone in terms of its effects in the body and brain. Low cortisol and increased testosterone causes dominant aggressive brave kind if behaviour. High cortisol individuals have been shown to be the ones that crumble under pressure.
> 
> These antidepressants and what not are all useless, I don't even think ppl can even comprehend how powerful your hormones are at altering your behaviour and mindset.


Could you explain more about it, i know its effecting the HPA-axis. And was a sign of stress specially acute stress like working out or such...

Then i heard of "Adrenal fatiuge" due to chronic stress, or CNS burnout. Where it was the oppossit=low cortisol.

It lowered the Cortisol,= increased Noradrenaline signaling trying to compensate... causing all kind of problems from problem sleeping to diabetes...

What role does cortisol play, and should i eat some supplements or medicine to optimize it, either to lower it or raise it???


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## hoddesdon (Jul 28, 2011)

TabbyTab said:


> Does this only apply to guys?


I would say so - it is not a good idea to take the wrong or opposite hormone.


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## Mustafa (Aug 15, 2012)

watertouch said:


> Could you explain more about it, i know its effecting the HPA-axis. And was a sign of stress specially acute stress like working out or such...
> 
> Then i heard of "Adrenal fatiuge" due to chronic stress, or CNS burnout. Where it was the oppossit=low cortisol.
> 
> ...


Adrenal fatigue is pseudoscience monkey ****. Rhodiola rosea inhibits the hpa axis, thus testosterone will have a much stronger effect on your mood and emotions. Rhodiola rosea completely inhibited my hpa axis, the doctor tested me with Dex. After being on rhodiola for 6 months it's impossible for me to feel any kind of stress. Rhodiola rosea is 10 times more effective at inhibiting the hpa axis compared to impiramine. I took imipramine, didn't completely inhibited my stress response, but rhodiola on the other completely blocked my fear response . It's like iam not bothered by jack **** I don't feel stressed, I could be homeless and not feel stress. I could get shot in the leg and not be stressed. I feel way calm under the pressure. But my emotions and feelings is still their. I just don't feel bothered by negative stuff anymore.


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

@Mustafa

Is it safe to take rhodiola with ssri?


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## Saiga (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm only 22 so I haven't had my testosterone checked, but I'm very masculine, not feminine and I am a heterosexual who also doesn't allow people to push me around (self-dominant). Note that I have nothing against homosexuals, I am just stating I am only interested in women since someone else stated they are interested in some other males. I also lift and enjoy doing things most men enjoy doing. Perhaps after I turn 35 I'll have my testosterone checked, until then I don't think I'll blame that. I respect that fact that it could cause someone to be timid, among other things (lack of muscle, weight gain, fatigue, low sex drive). 

However if I was going to do something about low testosterone I'd do it the proper medical way by going to a doc and getting hormone replacement therapy where they inject slow release pellets into you. Since they are slow release they don't cause problems with estrogen etc.


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## WillCedar (Feb 25, 2013)

I took rhodiola for 4 months and it didn't do anything for me.


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## Pancho35 (Nov 28, 2014)

Saiga said:


> I'm only 22 so I haven't had my testosterone checked, but I'm very masculine, not feminine and I am a heterosexual who also doesn't allow people to push me around (self-dominant). Note that I have nothing against homosexuals, I am just stating I am only interested in women since someone else stated they are interested in some other males. I also lift and enjoy doing things most men enjoy doing. Perhaps after I turn 35 I'll have my testosterone checked, until then I don't think I'll blame that. I respect that fact that it could cause someone to be timid, among other things (lack of muscle, weight gain, fatigue, low sex drive).
> 
> However if I was going to do something about low testosterone I'd do it the proper medical way by going to a doc and getting hormone replacement therapy where they inject slow release pellets into you. Since they are slow release they don't cause problems with estrogen etc.


You're dominant and you have social anxiety? Riiiiiiiight


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## Saiga (Jul 18, 2012)

Pancho35 said:


> You're dominant and you have social anxiety? Riiiiiiiight


Yes. There are different kinds of social anxiety. If you're simply afraid of people, like that they may or CAN harm you or that you won't be able to stop them from doing harm to you, well that might be paranoia and not anxiety, but that's different.

My social anxiety revolves around being afraid I'll say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, and being judged in general... Basically afraid of screwing up. That's where my social phobia comes from. I don't see how that links to dominance at all. Im actively working on getting over my social phobia too, as I personally have a belief that a lot of the time phobias like social phobia and agoraphobia are best being worked out than medicated. Medication doesn't seem to make me talk to people better and doesn't make me any less nervous outside my home. I have to actually spend time (slowly) doing those things. Today I spent like an hour and a half on the phone with my ISP (they are REALLY frustrating) and I didn't choke up. On top of that I'm tapering off Klonopin right now and was dropped 1mg straight away from 4mg to 3mg. For my agoraphobia I just go to the store, visit family more often, and try to make sure I don't allow myself to be isolated for too long.

Also started seeing a psychologist who claims my problems are probably a chemical imbalance. That may be true for my GAD and the panic attacks I used to have, but I think a phobia needs to be overcome and I'm going to seek his assistance with that next visit (a few days thankfully).

I respect your opinion even if it is a little bit rude and arrogant.

I'm the kind of guy who is very quiet, but when you talk to me I'm very polite and I make friends quickly. Most of the time if someone starts talking to me, we form a very good long term friendship. On the other hand, if someone steps the wrong way with me, I can be quite unpleasant and make them have a very, very bad day. I don't advocate violence, almost ever... Except in cases of self defense which is what I'm talking about.

Some may call it an "ego problem" but if someone is rude to me I'm rude back, if they get in my face I don't flinch and if they tell me "say that again" I say it again. I call it sticking up for myself - part of being the alpha of your own life. Not letting people walk all over you.


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## Polo1 (Jan 4, 2015)

Low test might cause it, but in most cases thats not the issue. I also agree with that taking meds wont help you the way you need to be helped.


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## Pancho35 (Nov 28, 2014)

Saiga said:


> Yes. There are different kinds of social anxiety. If you're simply afraid of people, like that they may or CAN harm you or that you won't be able to stop them from doing harm to you, well that might be paranoia and not anxiety, but that's different.
> 
> My social anxiety revolves around being afraid I'll say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, and being judged in general... Basically afraid of screwing up. That's where my social phobia comes from. I don't see how that links to dominance at all. Im actively working on getting over my social phobia too, as I personally have a belief that a lot of the time phobias like social phobia and agoraphobia are best being worked out than medicated. Medication doesn't seem to make me talk to people better and doesn't make me any less nervous outside my home. I have to actually spend time (slowly) doing those things. Today I spent like an hour and a half on the phone with my ISP (they are REALLY frustrating) and I didn't choke up. On top of that I'm tapering off Klonopin right now and was dropped 1mg straight away from 4mg to 3mg. For my agoraphobia I just go to the store, visit family more often, and try to make sure I don't allow myself to be isolated for too long.
> 
> ...


Well if someone got in your face wouldn't you be afraid of making a lame comeback if you're afraid of what people will think of you if you say something dumb?


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Saiga said:


> Yes. There are different kinds of social anxiety. If you're simply afraid of people, like that they may or CAN harm you or that you won't be able to stop them from doing harm to you, well that might be paranoia and not anxiety, but that's different.
> 
> My social anxiety revolves around being afraid I'll say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, and being judged in general... Basically afraid of screwing up. That's where my social phobia comes from. I don't see how that links to dominance at all.


That's a great explanation sir. I can relate pretty well, as mine is somewhat similar. Past experiences, guilt, personal feelings of shame, etc. A lot of it is in my head, but something that can't be overcome easily, even with new experiences as the perceptions still stays with me. In a sense though, it is who I am as a person. I often have that fear of failure as well.

When I was on medications (various), I lost most of the paranoia or SA, and general anxiety. However, I also lost most of my creativity, became apathetic (in general) but also to the feelings of others, and often didn't think of the potential consequences of my actions. Which made me "act" more on impulse and such. I didn't like any of these behaviors in myself.


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## Saiga (Jul 18, 2012)

Pancho35 said:


> Well if someone got in your face wouldn't you be afraid of making a lame comeback if you're afraid of what people will think of you if you say something dumb?


No. I'm an adult, I'm not in middle school. Talk is cheap. I basically tell them to pound sand.


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## Pancho35 (Nov 28, 2014)

Saiga said:


> No. I'm an adult, I'm not in middle school. Talk is cheap. I basically tell them to pound sand.


So you lied then when you said earlier that you worry about saying something stupid?


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## Saiga (Jul 18, 2012)

Pancho35 said:


> So you lied then when you said earlier that you worry about saying something stupid?


Negative. I am worried about making mistakes in friendly or casual conversations. If someone is being aggressive towards me and the testosterone and adrenaline start flowing, I will say something to them. Getting in someone's face and having a normal conversation are two completely different things.

Have a nice day.


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## DeafBoy36 (Dec 12, 2009)

Want to increase your T-level naturally? do lots of squats. It helps.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/366650-squats-to-increase-testosterone/


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## Gully (Jan 11, 2015)

Mustafa said:


> It's well known fact, testosterone causes dominant status seeking behaviour, also I read tons of studies that show test to go up when a team wins and test to go down when a team loses. This is major proof testosterone has antidepressant effects as it boosts your mood makes you feel alpha and causes neurogensis in the hippocampus( depressed inviduals have atrophy of this key brain region involved in learning and memory). Testosterone as I mentioned gives you that manly drive and confidence it makes you stand out from the betas. It's well known that men with social anxiety are betas as they run away from confrontation testosterone causes the opposite it makes you competitive. That's why pit bulls have higher testosterone levels than poodles.
> 
> The other hormone I want to mention is cortisol. The stress hormone which is the complete opposite of testosterone in terms of its effects in the body and brain. Low cortisol and increased testosterone causes dominant aggressive brave kind if behaviour. High cortisol individuals have been shown to be the ones that crumble under pressure.
> 
> These antidepressants and what not are all useless, I don't even think ppl can even comprehend how powerful your hormones are at altering your behaviour and mindset.


So women with SAD have low testosterone?


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## swim (Apr 4, 2011)

SSRIs for the omega male.


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## wealldead (Jun 20, 2014)

What's up, here, something news about Testo ?


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## Gurjot (Jan 31, 2015)

Metyrapone and Tolcapone???


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## Imbored21 (Jun 18, 2012)

If it was that simple no one would have social anxiety.


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## M4dScientist (May 17, 2013)

what do u guys suggest as the best method of lowering cortisol levels?? im in a predicament where my anxiety/depression fuels my high cortisol levels, and my high cortisol levels fuels my anxiety/depression. 

n Mustafa, you could be a troll which would make this information useless, but whatever. why not take a tribulus supplement if youre looking to boost testosterone levels naturally. it works GREAT for a lot of people.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

M4dScientist said:


> what do u guys suggest as the best method of lowering cortisol levels?? im in a predicament where my anxiety/depression fuels my high cortisol levels, and my high cortisol levels fuels my anxiety/depression.
> 
> n Mustafa, you could be a troll which would make this information useless, but whatever. why not take a tribulus supplement if youre looking to boost testosterone levels naturally. it works GREAT for a lot of people.


I wouldn't really say its that bad with Cortisol lvls... Although i just got my testresults back and while on betablockers and Benzo i had 823, refferens range being 200-800.. Would be interesting to see how high it would be without taken these meds.

I was down really low while being on the MAOI-Parnate like 152 our such...

But accute stress increase it, so the saliva sample at home 5times a day would probably be more accurate...

There are Supplements and such, 7-Keto a version of DHEA, for instence...

From the article on Cognetive enhancers for Anxiety Dissorder
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3114287/
"In contrast to strategies to enhance cortisol levels, many anxiolytic (benzodiazepine or antidepressant) medications suppress cortisol or hinder cortisol reactivity (e.g., Curtis, Abelson, & Gold, 1997; Fries, Hellhammer, & Hellhammer, 2006; Pomara, Willoughby, Sidtis, Cooper, & Greenblatt, 2005; Rohrer, von Richthofen, Schulz, Beyer, & Lehnert, 1994). "

And lifestyle... Skipping breakfast is linked to higher cortisol lvls

*Physiol Behav. 2014 Dec 26. Female breakfast skippers display a disrupted cortisol rhythm and elevated blood pressure.*
Chronic stress and over-activity in the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis may link breakfast skipping and poor cardiometabolic health. Missing the first major meal of the day in rodents prolongs elevated circulating corticosterone at a time when it's normally decreasing. To extend these findings to humans, we hypothesized that habitual breakfast skippers would display a similar pattern of circulating cortisol and alterations in meal and stress-induced cortisol reactions. Normal weight to obese women aged 18-45 years old who were strictly defined as either breakfast skippers (n=30) or breakfast eaters (n=35) were invited to participate in our study. Normal breakfast habits were maintained for the entire study period and each participant attended 4 lab visits. Over the first 2 lab visits, body composition, fasting clinical chemistries, and self-reports of chronic stress were assessed. On each of 2 additional days (lab visits 3 and 4), salivary free cortisol was measured at home upon waking and at bedtime, and in the lab in response to a standard lunch, ad libitum afternoon snack buffet, and stress and control (relaxation) tasks. The order of the control and stress test visits was randomized. While body weight, body composition, HOMA-IR, total and HDL cholesterol did not statistically differ (p>0.05), both diastolic and systolic blood pressure was elevated (p<0.01) and LDL cholesterol was lower (p=0.04) in the breakfast skipper group. Compared to the breakfast eaters and on the control task visit only, breakfast skippers had higher circulating cortisol from arrival to midafternoon (p<0.01) and during the snack buffet (p<0.05). Furthermore, the lunch-induced cortisol reaction was larger in the 'skippers' (p=0.03). On both stress and control visit days, the diurnal cortisol amplitude was significantly (p=0.02) blunted in breakfast skippers. Self-reports of chronic stress did not differ between the groups. These data indicate that habitually skipping breakfast is associated with stress-independent over-activity in the HPA axis which, if prolonged, may increase risk (e.g., hypertension) for cardiometabolic disease in some people.


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

As a sidenote to the whole testo thing and just my 2cents... i have tried the Steroids Dianabol and 1-Testo... The Dianabol actually increased my anxiety, i could not walk on the sidewalk, because when anytime a car passed me i felt like "ohh man i almost got hit"...

Now Mustafa will likely turn this around saying it aromatize to estrogen and that was the problem...


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## wealldead (Jun 20, 2014)

Can really explain true S.A only by hormons, I don't think so, also many childs have no testo and are super sociable or dominant, same for women....
It's psycological


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## Paxil123 (May 12, 2013)

i will begin a treatmant on oxytocin who decrease our cortisol level. i tested it a mouth ago but a very low dose. It seemed to decrease my anxiety after 5 min. I'll have more oxitocyn tommorrow and i'll take it everyday. 

I will keep you informed


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## llodell88 (May 15, 2011)

hoddesdon said:


> I would say so - it is not a good idea to take the wrong or opposite hormone.


actually i saw a study a while ago that showed women w/ sa have relatively low T compared to women without it too.


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## M4dScientist (May 17, 2013)

Paxil123 said:


> i will begin a treatmant on oxytocin who decrease our cortisol level. i tested it a mouth ago but a very low dose. It seemed to decrease my anxiety after 5 min. I'll have more oxitocyn tommorrow and i'll take it everyday.
> 
> I will keep you informed


Hey Paxil, how do u supplement oxytocin??


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## slowlyimproving (Jan 2, 2014)

No.


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