# Guys who can't make first moves: what should we do?



## vicente

Some guys are "straight" in that they are males who are attracted to females. But initiating physical contact and being "the man" just isn't natural to us.

What should we do to find love?


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## Resonance

vicente said:


> *Some guys are "straight" in that they are males who are attracted to females.* *But* initiating physical contact and being "the man" just isn't natural to us.
> 
> What should we do to find love?


What an odd thing to say


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## Haydsmom2007

I know easier said than done, but I've just sucked it up before and made the first move. It was nerve racking but afterward everything was fine and I was thinking to myself "why did it take me so long to do that?"


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## heroin

Where's the "die alone" option?


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## kiirby

Just go without. I'd rather never have a girlfriend than be thought of as a creep.

Oh, and cats. Lots and lots of cats.


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## Milco

Cats all the way :b



Haydsmom2007 said:


> I know easier said than done, but I've just sucked it up before and made the first move. It was nerve racking but afterward everything was fine and I was thinking to myself "why did it take me so long to do that?"


I'm happy you were positively surprised when you confronted the fear, but it's not going to be that way for everyone :\
I think it's worth trying whenever you can make yourself do so, just because you challenge your situation and fight for what you want, but I have asked out - not loads, but a fair number of girls all things considered - and it hasn't gone so well.. yet.


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## vicente

Resonance said:


> What an odd thing to say


Not really, if you think about it. Men are supposed to be "the man" in the relationship and women are supposed to be "the woman". If you're male and you don't feel the urges to exert your masculinity on a female, then being "straight" is in quotes.



Haydsmom2007 said:


> I know easier said than done, but I've just sucked it up before and made the first move. It was nerve racking but afterward everything was fine and I was thinking to myself "why did it take me so long to do that?"


Are you a man or a woman?


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## Resonance

vicente said:


> Not really, if you think about it. Men are supposed to be "the man" in the relationship and women are supposed to be "the woman". If you're male and you don't feel the urges to exert your masculinity on a female, then being "straight" is in quotes.


It really isn't, personal weakness has nothing to do with sexual orientation. You can blind, castrate and paralyse a man, and lock him in a cupboard away from all human contact - oh and also disable his voicebox - he is now in no position to assert any masculinity or dominance over anyone. He is not, however, suddenly gay.


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## Ape in space

Alcohol seems to be the best remedy for all things SA. It hasn't ever gotten me to approach a girl, but it has made me think I could.


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## emptybottle2

Work out, groom yourself really well, dress nice. Go to bar/party environments, make eyes at women, hope that a woman will be bold enough to approach you.

Ooobviously, chances are slim that a woman _you find attractive _will approach you if you're not particularly good-looking. So either take whoever approaches you, or suck it up/drink up and make a move on the ones you want.

Get dogs. Cats are for spinsters.


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## vicente

Resonance said:


> It really isn't, personal weakness has nothing to do with sexual orientation. You can blind, castrate and paralyse a man, and lock him in a cupboard away from all human contact - oh and also disable his voicebox - he is now in no position to assert any masculinity or dominance over anyone. He is not, however, suddenly gay.


I'm not saying that we're gay, but usually when people think of sexual orientation, they include gender roles in the definition. Straight men are expected to like chasing women, pushing the envelope as to how far the woman will let him go, hopefully until the woman "puts out". We're straight in only the strictest definition: XY being attracted to XX.



emptybottle2 said:


> Work out, groom yourself really well, dress nice. Go to bar/party environments, make eyes at women, hope that a woman will be bold enough to approach you.


So you're voting for option 1.



> Get dogs. Cats are for spinsters.


We ARE spinsters.


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## rdrr

emptybottle2 said:


> Work out, groom yourself really well, dress nice. Go to bar/party environments, make eyes at women, hope that a woman will be bold enough to approach you.
> 
> Ooobviously, chances are slim that a woman _you find attractive _will approach you if you're not particularly good-looking. So either take whoever approaches you, or suck it up/drink up and make a move on the ones you want.
> 
> Get dogs. Cats are for spinsters.


I think I remember a thread about something that talked about if men should be settling for someone that they find less attractive...


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## emptybottle2

vicente said:


> We ARE spinsters.


No, you're *~ bachelors ~*.

Dogs are supposedly chick magnets, right? And babies.


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## Amocholes

If you wait for her to ask you then you may be waiting a long time. It depends on how bad you want something. If you want something bad enough, you will do what it takes to get it.


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## Paper Samurai

Haydsmom2007 said:


> I know easier said than done, but I've just sucked it up before and made the first move. It was nerve racking but afterward everything was fine and I was thinking to myself "why did it take me so long to do that?"





vicente said:


> Are you a man or a woman?







:b


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## vicente

Haydsmom2007 said:


> I know easier said than done, but I've just sucked it up before and made the first move. It was nerve racking but afterward everything was fine and I was thinking to myself "why did it take me so long to do that?"





Paper Samurai said:


> She's a Lady
> :b


Lol, but I think a woman telling a man to just suck it up and make the move is like a man telling a woman, "I don't understand why you're so obsessed about your looks. I'm average looking and don't care about fashion yet I get along just fine in the world. Nobody judges you by what you look like or the clothes you wear, they judge you on your personality and intelligence." Sometimes the opposite sex can't have empathy or understanding because their experiences are completely different.


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## zebra00

forget about it and stop trying


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## Karsten

You gotta make moves. From what I've seen, if a woman is approaching you, you are either extremely good looking, or she is preying on you for a free drink at a bar, OR she is 16, really drunk and obnoxious and wants to talk about the Jersey Shore before vomiting all over your shoes...


I would say try a shot of liquor, but that just leads to 8 or 9 (if you're like me)


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## Arisa1536

thekloWN said:


> You gotta make moves. From what I've seen, if a woman is approaching you, you are either extremely good looking, or she is preying on you for a free drink at a bar, OR she is 16, really drunk and obnoxious and wants to talk about the Jersey Shore before vomiting all over your shoes...
> 
> I would say try a shot of liquor, but that just leads to 8 or 9 (if you're like me)


Wow you must have had some lousy experiences or been hurt by females in the past to come to that conclusion.
Guys do not have to make the first move.
If I like a guy, i let them know, simple as that. Its not always easy and it often ends in rejection but then again not always because sometimes the guy is nervous and shy and appreciates the effort the girl made to let him know and therefore responds 

I don't drink so i have never been drunk when approaching someone i had liked in the past nor was the person i admired or had crushes on usually the best looking of the bunch, its a personality thing


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## ValiantThor

every girlfriend ive had the girl approached me, and they were not 16, or looking for drinks.


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## Karsten

Bad luck I guess, lol... Or just the paranoia kicking in...


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## vicente

Arisa1536 said:


> Wow you must have had some lousy experiences or been hurt by females in the past to come to that conclusion.
> Guys do not have to make the first move.
> If I like a guy, i let them know, simple as that. Its not always easy and it often ends in rejection but then again not always because sometimes the guy is nervous and shy and appreciates the effort the girl made to let him know and therefore responds
> 
> I don't drink so i have never been drunk when approaching someone i had liked in the past nor was the person i admired or had crushes on usually the best looking of the bunch, its a personality thing


Were you the first one to make physical contact, the one who made the first kiss?



ValiantThor said:


> every girlfriend ive had the girl approached me, and they were not 16, or looking for drinks.


Were you the first one to make physical contact, the one who made the first kiss?


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## odd_one_out

Other: I'm gay today.

But also, I don't think it's worth seeking love. People mess it up badly and don't know what they're doing. Trouble is I cannot uninstall the programming desiring it.

I've found females with a different cultural background (usually a sizeable minority in large cities) seem more accepting of males with social differences/issues. This is also based on observing my family members who are socially odd.


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## Paul

Just try to make some friends -- which doesn't require first moves, only common activities -- and one of them will turn out to be more than that. If someone's interested in you, there may be a lot of difficult hinting around for a while but she'll eventually ask you if you're interested back.

Cats are a good idea too though.


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## cafune

Honestly speaking, why should the guy have to make the first move? That is simply the burden that society places on a man. Why shouldn't the female be able to make the first move? I am sure that several do. 

I don't really believe that there are characteristics or distinctly "male" qualities, nor do I believe in the idea of "masculinity". I actually don't believe in the idea of "female" qualities/emotions/actions either. Society has simply decided which gender should play what role, although, innately, I do not think that is who we are, or even who we were meant to be... I am definitely a queer theorist... although, if I get into that I'll definitely be going off-topic.

So for guys who can't make the first moves, I'm sure that at least one female will come along that will make the first move instead!


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## sean88

I always just hope the girl I like happens to like me back, and somehow we'll both be like "HEY, I like you!", but of course that never happens.


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## heroin

odd_one_out said:


> I've found females with a different cultural background (usually a sizeable minority in large cities) seem more accepting of males with social differences/issues.


Naw, they just like white dudes so they're willing to cut some slack.


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## vicente

Live Laugh Love said:


> Honestly speaking, why should the guy have to make the first move? That is simply the burden that society places on a man. Why shouldn't the female be able to make the first move? I am sure that several do.
> 
> I don't really believe that there are characteristics or distinctly "male" qualities, nor do I believe in the idea of "masculinity". I actually don't believe in the idea of "female" qualities/emotions/actions either. Society has simply decided which gender should play what role, although, innately, I do not think that is who we are, or even who we were meant to be... I am definitely a queer theorist... although, if I get into that I'll definitely be going off-topic.
> 
> So for guys who can't make the first moves, I'm sure that at least one female will come along that will make the first move instead!


Are you my sister? She's from Toronto (well, Mississauga) and loves the Beatles (mostly John Lennon) and also believes the same thing about gender roles.

The problem is that what society is, is different from what society should be. I don't like the concepts of masculine and feminine either, but everyone else uses it. Theoretically there should be more women who take the active role and ask guys out and make the first moves. But due to sexism and cultural expectations, women are socialized to NOT take the active role and to prefer men who DO take the active roles. Pretending that women make up 50% of CEOs and that Black people get as many Ph.D.'s as White people won't make it so. Pretending that male-female romantic relationships are equal gender-neutral partnerships won't make them so and will only leave men like us to a lonely life of eternal bachelorhood.


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## cafune

vicente said:


> Are you my sister? She's from Toronto (well, Mississauga) and loves the Beatles (mostly John Lennon) and also believes the same thing about gender roles.
> 
> The problem is that what society is, is different from what society should be. I don't like the concepts of masculine and feminine either, but everyone else uses it. Theoretically there should be more women who take the active role and ask guys out and make the first moves. But due to sexism and cultural expectations, women are socialized to NOT take the active role and to prefer men who DO take the active roles. Pretending that women make up 50% of CEOs and that Black people get as many Ph.D.'s as White people won't make it so. Pretending that male-female romantic relationships are equal gender-neutral partnerships won't make them so and will only leave men like us to a lonely life of eternal bachelorhood.


Haha, sorry to disappoint, but no I'm not. I've only got one brother but he's younger than me, and he's sitting right across from me too. =) Oh, and my favourite Beatle's George Harrison by the way!

I am not asking for people to pretend that these societal norms do not exist; I do not believe feigned ignorance is the answer. And I realize that we still live in a largely patriarchal society but I am hoping that more males and females will begin to challenge societal norms. I am hoping for change, perhaps not in the near future but in the distant future. For now, I realize that men will be expected, more so than women, to make the first move. Although I do not agree, I do understand that belief. However, the beliefs of today's society disgust me... for example, the belief that one must behave/act in one way simply because they are what they are. As Simone de Beauvoir stated, "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."


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## emptybottle2

odd_one_out said:


> I've found females with a different cultural background (usually a sizeable minority in large cities) seem more accepting of males with social differences/issues.


From what I've observed, this is only true if you're white and the girl is Asian.


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## scriabin221

I've never understood that. I've known plenty of straight couple where woman made the first move. It only applies in theory. In practice, anyone can make the first move. If a girl is waiting for the guy to make the first move, then she's the wrong girl anyway and will expect you to be everything you're not. But be careful making the first move, you may come off creepy, especially if the girl doesn't know you.


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## Melinda

Sometimes you just have to man/woman up and make the first move.

I've had two boyfriends in the past, and I've had to make the first move with both of them. People with poor self image or SA often need to be convinced that yes, someone _really_ likes you that way and thus can be oblivious to advances. I know this because I'm this way and so is my boyfriend of 2+ years.


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## Aloysius

Cats.


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## Perfectionist

Wait for me to find you. I always end up making the first move.


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## VCL XI




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## Tsubasa_

This is just a little something I read somewhere in relation to this topic, but I read on some other forum, that this one lady once wrote for herself that one of the primary reasons for not making the first move is "not to be seen as easy".

As for myself, I don't always make the first move because I have learned that it takes years to truly know someone. Add this on top of the fact that I am never sure if the girl is single or not. I try to find this out by fishing for as much information as possible without actually asking. This is actually a very bad habit of mine, because I should just simply ASK to get the direct answer. :sus But I don't always feel comfortable doing that...
The very first girl that I ever liked started out with friendship, of course. But after I realized I was really attracted to her, I decided to make the first move. The worst thing happened though. Rejection? No no. Nothing as affirming as that. She just *ignored* me. Gawd, that was such a bummer. Hated that moment so badly. Worst thing you can do is to ignore someone else's brave attempt as they confess their feelings for you. People deserve an honest answer.
So with that in mind, I decided to take my next opportunity to confess once again because I wanted an answer. This time though, she actually said she liked me back too. I almost couldn't believe it, that it was almost too good to be true.
Turns out it was too good to be true. To keep a long story short, she just played with my feelings. Another bummer. I was pretty angry and down about it for a while. But on the positive side (hurray for being optimistic! :boogie) I learned a lot from the experience. Best part is that we are friends still today.

Unfortunately though, where I currently live, there are a lot of alpha males as you would refer to them. Lots of upfront confidence, very loud and obnoxious and tremendously short-minded. Of course, these kind of guys get the girls a lot easier because they display themselves as available and confident. Kind of sucks for a guy like me who is more reserved, but on the positive side boogielol) I know what kind of things I am looking for in a woman. So I do my best in trying to find these traits in women before I make any moves. This isn't always easy, but I keep trying.
Point is though, I don't always make the first move because I am never sure about certain details such as one I mentioned above if she is single or not, or things like that. Plus, I hate coming across as either awkward or freaky. So I am careful.


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## liferebooted

emptybottle2 said:


> From what I've observed, this is only true if you're white and the girl is Asian.


Sounds perfect to me...


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## companioncube

i think i'll get some cats and eventually die alone


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## heroin

companioncube said:


> i think i'll get some cats and eventually die alone


Yeah, except for the cats. Not really a pet person.


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## 1outof10

What do you do if you don't/can't drink (For fear of becoming an alcoholic)?


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## heroin

1outof10 said:


> What do you do if you don't/can't drink (For fear of becoming an alcoholic)?


Bad analogy. Alcohol can't insult you or destroy your dignity unless you let it. An encounter with a prospective romantic interest can.


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## VanDamMan




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## TenYears

a box of 30 tablets man???
Wtf?


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## TRENNER

vicente said:


> Some guys are "straight" in that they are males who are attracted to females. But initiating physical contact and being "the man" just isn't natural to us.
> 
> What should we do to find love?


Sometimes, pushing yourself into the situation helps. You can get less anxious once you are in the process and the female is responding positively. That would happen with me sometimes in the past. I also got more confident as time progressed. It will be very difficult at first, but does get easier.

Also, finding a good therapist can really help.


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## nemesis1

Escorts


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## stranger25

Live Laugh Love said:


> So for guys who can't make the first moves, I'm sure that at least one female will come along that will make the first move instead!


http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/1775643-post27.html

yeah, right.


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## LostPancake

Well, you could do like me, and completely and utterly give up all hope of finding a girl. I mean, really completely believe it. Then you have less anxiety around them, because you know that there's no way they would like you or want you, so you're not trying to impress them. So you are actually more your authentic self. 

That is the weird way in which I often got attention from women. Actually translating that into something more required doing CBT though, and challenging some negative thoughts. 

As for making the first move physically, usually that happens mutually, because you both feel something, and you can see it in the other person - they're obviously nervous and excited, and so you know it's okay to make a move. I've never tried it otherwise - it's just too potentially awkward. 

So, if you're sitting there all stiff and frozen with anxiety, they're not going to be getting those signals, and so nothing is likely to happen. Not that it won't, it would just require the other person to do all the work, and make the assumption that it would actually be welcomed.


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## David777

This is a perfect example of why I love online dating.

There is no guess work.
If you message her it is because you have an interest in her.
If she messages back then she obviously has an interest in you too.

And you two can go from there.

In the real world it is too confusing!
First you need to become friends.
Then hint around to whether or not she has a husband or boyfriend.
And if she does, you then find yourself in this incredibly awkward place of... well, I think you've all been there before. No need to explain.


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## percyblueraincoat

Guys who can't make the first move?

What, did they chop off their legs and make them mute?

What's really talked about here is guys who are AFRAID to make the first move.

And that's natural and all that. But that's not a can't. That's a "I'm scared too..."

A bad romantic encounter/rejection cannot destroy anything about you. Unless you let it. Unless you make rejection mean that you're not good enough.

If you don't believe in yourself, you call to everything else in this world that doesn't believe in you. And boy are they not good company.

If you do believe in yourself, you've suddenly called to a heck of a lot of friends. 

You don't need to become friends with her. Sometimes it works well that way and sometimes it doesn't. But you can just ask her out. She's not going to call the police if you ask her out. She can only say no. If she's rude, then well...you made the wrong decision about her being worth your time. Plenty of other girls.


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## cafune

stranger25 said:


> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/1775643-post27.html
> 
> yeah, right.


Those are two different ideas. Guys who can't make the first move are not necessarily "shy" guys. I meant that they do socialize with the girl, they just seem unable to ask her out... in which case, some girls would probably be able to do it instead.


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## Kennnie

VanDamMan said:


>


 +1


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## cold fission cure

If they make the first move then technically they have to pay on the date. That in itself is a good enough reason to wait around for them (females) to put moves on you.


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