# God doesnt give a f---, does he



## Ventsalot (Jun 30, 2016)

What kind of God is this that watches people suffer and turns a blind eye to it? _Staff edit_


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## Innocent James (May 13, 2016)

You're suppose to do God's work, It's not life if God dose everything.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

God has given us authority to rule the earth and free will. With interference of free will we would not be free and able to choose anymore. So do you want an earth with obeying slave robots, or free beings and the consequences of their free choices?


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

He died on a cross for you. Thats how much he loves you....

He gave you life....

He can give you enternal life with no pain and sorrow......if you just accept him.

No human can nor would give us this, only god.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)




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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)




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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

We were supposed to take care of each-other.


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## obiwanpepperoni (Aug 15, 2016)

Sometimes I wonder if all of this is just an experiment. A game of sorts.

And He's the mastermind behind the game. He created it all. 

He can see the future, right?

Despite knowing the end of the story, He decided to make this game. He put the players in their places. 

Sigh, I don't like this game.


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

Royals said:


> With interference of free will we would not be free and able to choose anymore.


Not able to choose anymore ? It seems like God already chosen for me a life with severe panic attacks, debilitating anxiety and chronic suicidal depression. Cause I certainly didn't choose that.

The only power I have here is to try and find a cure, but it seems so far that a cure isn't exactly God's plan for me, and wasn't for the past 1 and a half decade. Plan, will, call it however you like, God's will can't be changed.

God even knows who will end up in hell and who will end up in heaven even before anyone is born, even before creating humans. It's all predetermined from the start/Genesis, so what do we actually choose ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive towards you, that is not my intent, everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I'm just angry at God...


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

RenegadeReloaded said:


> Not able to choose anymore ? It seems like God already chosen for me a life with severe panic attacks, debilitating anxiety and chronic suicidal depression. Cause I certainly didn't choose that.
> 
> The only power I have here is to try and find a cure, but it seems so far that a cure isn't exactly God's plan for me, and wasn't for the past 1 and a half decade. Plan, will, call it however you like, God's will can't be changed.
> 
> ...


Anxiety and fears are a combination of genes, experiences, the way you were raised, and the way you react to others. Because there is never one cause or one to blame. But I learned that i have influence over how others treat me. Problems arise because of the way we view others, how we interact with others, and how we treat ourselves and others. If we are kind to others, or have more self esteem and self love, others will treat us with more respect. So others treat us the way we treat them. That is the way it works. You get what you give. It's not about what others do or say but how we react to them or how sensitive we are to feedback. When I realize I can't change others only myself I can work on solutions.


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## WhaleAndWasp (Jul 17, 2016)

RenegadeReloaded said:


> Not able to choose anymore ? It seems like God already chosen for me a life with severe panic attacks, debilitating anxiety and chronic suicidal depression. Cause I certainly didn't choose that.
> 
> The only power I have here is to try and find a cure, but it seems so far that a cure isn't exactly God's plan for me, and wasn't for the past 1 and a half decade. Plan, will, call it however you like, God's will can't be changed.
> 
> ...


This reminds me of that quote: "God will never give you more than you can bear."

I've never bought it, as an atheist, as a deist, as a Christian, as whatever I've ever been spiritually in my life. It's just a washed-up platitude created to make you feel better. If he never gives you more than you can bear, then why did he give people mental illnesses that make it impossible for them to bear certain things?

Rubbish.


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## hoddesdon (Jul 28, 2011)

RenegadeReloaded said:


> Not able to choose anymore ? It seems like God already chosen for me a life with severe panic attacks, debilitating anxiety and chronic suicidal depression. Cause I certainly didn't choose that.


This is the result of the free will of others, who make the wrong decisions.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

hoddesdon said:


> This is the result of the free will of others, who make the wrong decisions.


Other people are to blame for someone being born with a depressive disorder?


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## RenegadeReloaded (Mar 12, 2011)

AussiePea said:


> Other people are to blame for someone being born with a depressive disorder?


No, they aren't to blame for that. But they are to blame, in a way, for being abusive or overprotective to children when raising them and the children, as a result, grow up to be dysfunctional adults. I say in a way cause most of the time parents think they are doing the right thing, like my cousin that beats up his kid with the belt to discipline him.

Environment you were raised in can overcome bad genetic predisposition, so even if you have genes that make you fall into depression easier, that won't happen if the environment provides you with what you need. That gene is suppressed and doesn't activate (epigenetics).


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## findyourself (Aug 8, 2012)

God promises free will to all and everyone. There is nothing more to be said.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

im tired of my tooth pain


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

Ventsalot said:


> What kind of God is this that watches people suffer and turns a blind eye to it? _Staff edit_


it's the same thing people do with animals so it's no different


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## eukz (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm sure that before they die a lot of people secretly look back in time and realise that they did almost the entire job (living) by themselves.

Discussing about free will in this forum is completely useless btw.


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## porter (Jan 22, 2016)

Ventsalot said:


> What kind of God is this that watches people suffer and turns a blind eye to it? _Staff edit_


I use to wonder the same thing at one time. It really seems and feels like a very harsh and painful life. So many in the world suffer greatly and it's hard for me to fathom sometimes. Yet God is God and appears to do nothing about it. Either that or God intends for it to be this way for a little while.

Consider how short and fragile life is. I think that is at least one thing we can be thankful to God for. The human body can only take so much before it dies simply because it cannot take anymore, physically and mentally.

Sometimes it feels like I went to sleep as a child, and woke up an over the hill adult. Time goes by so fast.

It helps me greatly to know God will make up for it with a type of comfort and love only He can provide. He doesn't always intend for it to be this way. We just need faith to believe He knows what He is doing.

Ask for strength so that you may endure, ask for wisdom so that you may understand, ask for patience in all your trials and tribulations. Don't lose hope as you meditate on these promises from God.

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off *ALL FACES*; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


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## coeur_brise (Oct 7, 2004)

Innocent James said:


> You're suppose to do God's work, It's not life if God dose everything.


+1
When you're in the mouth of hell, climb out and really, go towards the light to get to edge of heaven.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

ljubo said:


> im tired of my tooth pain


Have you been to a dentist? The longer you wait, the worse it will get. There could be an infection going on.

And yes, God does care - there are times where he is waiting for us to make a move before He can proceed with our blessing!


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## rewired (Jul 31, 2016)

Ventsalot said:


> What kind of God is this that watches people suffer and turns a blind eye to it? _Staff edit_


It is US that turns the blind eye - Do not fall into the trap of blaming something else that does not exist. That's a cop out all too short and sweet. In fact ... that's what creates the pain to start with.

We are ourselves Gods. We need no external source, blessing or confirmation in order to overcome the malevolence of such limiting beliefs.

There is nothing spiritual about such ideals. They exist only to break the spirits of others and control the mob. Pay it no attention and it will fade away. Focus on praising yourself and be grateful only to that which you know to be true. The those things you can touch, taste and feel. Anything else does not exist. Praise be to me and you.


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## SA go0n (Mar 5, 2014)

ljubo said:


> im tired of my tooth pain


Your suffering from your tooth pain will build character.


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## Friendonkey (May 13, 2016)

I can't tell what God is doing with me right now.

He gave me hope and happiness a few days ago, it seems he wants to take it away now.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

We always cry why God let's bad things happen but we never think to look at ourselves and take responsibility for our own lives and others. God told everything we needed to know to live a peaceful live. We received free will, we abused it. We received control of earth, we destroyed it. We were told to love others as ourselves, and love God, but we deciced to go to war and hate others. We complain about bad things happening but then again we don't want to lose our free will and become willingless robots under God's control. People who complain don't take enough reponsibility to change the world or to ask God's strength to serve Him and others through Him.


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## The Starry night (May 23, 2015)

Always believe god will show you mercy and He will.


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## The Starry night (May 23, 2015)

Royals said:


> We always cry why God let's bad things happen but we never think to look at ourselves and take responsibility for our own lives and others. God told everything we needed to know to live a peaceful live. We receveived free will, we abused it. We received control of earth, we destroyed it. We were told to love others as ourselves, and love God, but we deciced to go to war and hate others. We complain about bad things happening but then again we don't want lose our free will and become willingless robots under God's control. People who complain don't take enough reponsibility to change the world or to God's strength to serve Him and others through Him.


Spot on.:clap


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

The Starry night said:


> Spot on.:clap


Thanks  It's either/or. I rather accept how the world is and try my best to change my own life and try to inspire others to be positive. Than keep on asking why God does what He does and blame Him or others for how things are.


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Royals said:


> *We always cry why God let's bad things happen but we never think to look at ourselves and take responsibility for our own lives and others*. God told everything we needed to know to live a peaceful live. We received free will, we abused it. We received control of earth, we destroyed it. We were told to love others as ourselves, and love God, but we deciced to go to war and hate others. We complain about bad things happening but then again we don't want to lose our free will and become willingless robots under God's control. P*eople who complain don't take enough reponsibility to change the world or to ask God's strength to serve Him and others through Him*.


But when good things happen we attribute it to God. How many times have you heard miracles happen and Christians say "thank you God." And yet when bad things happen it's not attributed to God, but to people. If God is capable of doing good things then he should also be capable of doing good by preventing bad things from happening. I often hear Christians thanking God for the little things. At my past church people get up and say "thank you God for giving me a raise at work" or "I had misplaced my phone and found it a few days ago and so now I don't need a new one, thank you God." And yet there are entire countries and continents where people pray everyday for a morsel of bread and for the bare minimums to live and yet thousands still die of poverty, illnesses, and starvation. Surely if God can grant somebody a cell phone he should be able to grant starving children some food, no? We should take responsibilities for our actions, you are right. But this includes both the good and the bad. To attribute bad things to humans and good things to God would be biased and erroneous.

Furthermore, religion is not a new phenomenon; it's been around for eons. I have to laugh when people say that more people need to turn to God to make this world a better place. Historically we can see this is not true. Back in the Medieval times, religion dominanted all aspects of daily living. If we look at the quality of life during these times it was worse than today; females were repressed and had no rights, aristocrats/upper class had the most privilege, there were slaves and peasants who had very few rights, and the justice system was very unjust. So to say not enough people ask God's strength to serve him to change the world, would again be erroneous. People have tried this in the past and it never works. Religion is obviously not the answer. It has been done before and did not produce. If we look at today's society and how we have advanced with better rights for women, better judicial system, better understanding of cures for illnesses and improved healthcare, equal rights for minority groups etc. I think we can attribute this to the weakening hold of the church on the state. If the church was still in control of all aspects of life (as it was), there would be little advancement in these areas I'm sure of it.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

nothing else said:


> But when good things happen we attribute it to God. How many times have you heard miracles happen and Christians say "thank you God." And yet when bad things happen it's not attributed to God, but to people. If God is capable of doing good things then he should also be capable of doing good by preventing bad things from happening. I often hear Christians thanking God for the little things. At my past church people get up and say "thank you God for giving me a raise at work" or "I had misplaced my phone and found it a few days ago and so now I don't need a new one, thank you God." And yet there are entire countries and continents where people pray everyday for a morsel of bread and for the bare minimums to live and yet thousands still die of poverty, illnesses, and starvation. Surely if God can grant somebody a cell phone he should be able to grant starving children some food, no? We should take responsibilities for our actions, you are right. But this includes both the good and the bad. To attribute bad things to humans and good things to God would be biased and erroneous.
> 
> Furthermore, religion is not a new phenomenon; it's been around for eons. I have to laugh when people say that more people need to turn to God to make this world a better place. Historically we can see this is not true. Back in the Medieval times, religion dominanted all aspects of daily living. If we look at the quality of life during these times it was worse than today; females were repressed and had no rights, aristocrats/upper class had the most privilege, there were slaves and peasants who had very few rights, and the justice system was very unjust. So to say not enough people ask God's strength to serve him to change the world, would again be erroneous. People have tried this in the past and it never works. Religion is obviously not the answer. It has been done before and did not produce. If we look at today's society and how we have advanced with better rights for women, better judicial system, better understanding of cures for illnesses and improved healthcare, equal rights for minority groups etc. I think we can attribute this to the weakening hold of the church on the state. If the church was still in control of all aspects of life (as it was), there would be little advancement in these areas I'm sure of it.


Ofcourse because God is only good, holy, almighty and loving. God is love and He blessed us and doesn't curse us.
Either God is all good or all evil, He can't be both like us humans. I have learned when you are thankful more you will
receive more. If you are positive more you will attract more positivity. It's just the way it goes. I often pray and I receive
it. But not at my own times and I trust that I get it when God things it's best. So I am happy with that.

Just because God is good doesn't mean He approves of evil or has to stop it at our command. 
Like I told you sometimes God intervenes with miracles to show His power and His love. But if He would intervene and stop 
evil all the time there would be no need for free will anymore. We have to be able to choose right? For example, Everytime if 
you decide you want to get drunk or steal imagine God stopping you with force would you like that? I wouldn't. God already gave 
His word and commandments so we should know what He wants. We all know the 10 commandments. There is no excuse to 
commit evil. So God is not to blame.
You want to be free and have freedom but at the same time want to be controlled without free will. Can't have both. 
Good and evil have to exist for people to make a choice. The best concept God made is free will, a free world. It would be
unloving for God to force us to do anything He wants even if we don't want to. That would be unfair and torture. That is what
satan does. He controls people and influences them to sin. I hate to be tempted and do something wich makes me feel
bad, guilty, or shameful. So I am happy God gave me free will and the power to resist and overcome sin and evil. 
Just because people are poor doesn't mean they don't experience God's comfort and love. Often poor people believe in God
stronger because He is all there is left. Do you expect food to fall from the sky? Money to grow on trees? Everything is created
for us and nature is full of resources and for all of us. Some people just choose to control the resources and not share them
equally. Life and death are natural, and consequences how we live our lives. 
It makes no sense to attribute bad things to God because a good, holy being can't bring evil. Who would believe in such a
hypocritical being? Because God always gives love, peace and protection I am able to trust Him.

Roman society became more peaceful under the rule of Constantin. Science flourished because of Christianity. Slavery was
ended because Christianity. People are saved from death and experience everlasting happiness because of Christianity. Society
in the West is free and not under dictatorship because of Christian background. So yes, loving others as yourself and loving God
will make this a better world. The Middle Ages had many struggles and wars. Remember Joan of Arc? She was inspired by God.
Many writers, rulers, scientists and philiosophers back then were inspired by God and they were righteous people. Christ means
love, and obeying His word means peace. If practiced non hypocrtiically. Mandmade religion might no alwayst be the answer but
loving God is. If only we listened to God and intrepreted His word the right way. Yes society progressed because of a history of Christianity.
Do you know how much good the church has done? Helping the poor and bringing the gospel? How much people found comfort in
church? How must beautiful art has come because of it?
Also you think society/the world is changed much? Lifestyles of human are even more immoral and perverted than before. Just look
at music video's, videogames and movies, look at the wars going on, the terrorism, the worship of idols, false prophets, new age, 
occultism, gayness. This world only has proven that it needs a Savior to get rid of sin once and for all.


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## Overdrive (Sep 19, 2015)

Bob Moog !


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Royals said:


> Ofcourse because God is only good, holy, almighty and loving. God is love and He blessed us and doesn't curse us.
> Either God is all good or all evil, He can't be both like us humans. I have learned when you are thankful more you will
> receive more. If you are positive more you will attract more positivity. It's just the way it goes. I often pray and I receive
> it. But not at my own times and I trust that I get it when God things it's best. So I am happy with that.
> ...


*" I often pray and I receive. I have learned when you are thankful more you will receive more."*

This is wrong. There are many people who don't believe in God and they receive more. Think about the Christians who are thankful for God and they are being persecuted and then the celebrities who do not believe in God and they receive more. I also just told you there are thousands of examples where people pray and they don't receive it. You can't claim just based on your own personal experiences that God provides for you when you pray, because this is not true for everybody. You also can't prove that your praying is directly what led to what you received. There are thousands of factors that can lead to an outcome. Because you're a Christian it is your own belief that praying led to what you received. But beliefs don't equate to truth. A Muslim could pray for better health and attribute it to Allah while you could pray for better health and attribute it to Jesus. The outcome of better health cannot be directly linked to Allah or Jesus, it's who you attribute it to.

*"But if He would intervene and stop evil all the time there would be no need for free will anymore."*
Helping thousands of starving kids and people would be nice. Even if he doesn't help everybody, I'm sure he can help more. You just said before that "you often pray and receive it." If God can give you stuff and he loves us unconditionally, then why can't he help others who need more help than you? (you have access to a laptop and are typing to me now, sorry but your issues aren't as severe as poverty). 
*If you decide you want to get drunk or steal imagine God stopping you with force would you like that? I wouldn't. *
And yet there are violent passages in the Bible where God does use force to deal with situations.

*Good and evil have to exist for people to make a choice. The best concept God made is free will, a free world.*
Are you suggesting that children choose to have cancer and people in third world countries choose to starve? There are many situations where people are trapped for unfortunate reasons and they don't have much choice to deal with their circumstances.
*So I am happy God gave me free will and the power to resist and overcome sin and evil. *
But you don't resit evil. Nobody overcomes sin. That's why we all have it. And if you think bad things are the work of the devil then the devil is more powerful at convincing humans than God. All you have to do is turn on the news and see all the bad stuff going on in the world. The devil is better than God at tempting humans to do bad things. So there's evidence here on Earth that God isn't that powerful since the Devil has a stronger hold on humans. 
*It makes no sense to attribute bad things to God because a good, holy being can't bring evil. Who would believe in such a hypocritical being?* 
Clearly you're not reading the same Bible as I am then. There are several instances where God kills others, wipes out nations, murders children and women, and is a vengeful God. It appears you're one of those Christians that likes to hide this stuff under the rug and focus on the peachy things that make you feel fuzzy and warm inside and ignore the other stuff. It's quite ironic that you mentioned the word hypocritical when you're the one who is cherry picking. 
*People are saved from death and experience everlasting happiness because of Christianity. *
Tell that to the Native Americans. Also, unless you talked with somebody who died thousands of years ago, you don't know if everlasting happiness is true or not. 
*Mandmade religion might no alwayst be the answer but loving God is. If only we listened to God and intrepreted His word the right way. *
Good luck with that. There are several Christian denominations. If Christians cannot even agree on the right way to interpret the Word, have fun trying to get the world to listen. Nobody knows the right way to interpret his Word. Are you that arrogant that you think your interpretation is correct? I can ask a thousand Christians how they interpret certain passages and they will all be different. Some Christians believe that homosexuals are living in sin, abortion is wrong, women are lower than men on the hierarchy, etc. while others believe that sexual orientation doesn't matter, women are equal to men, and Jesus loves all. All religion is manmade. A religion that is not manmade is one based on personal experience. Something based on personal experience cannot be claimed as the truth. 
*
Do you know how much good the church has done? *
Clearly not enough. Also look at how much bad it has done.
*Also you think society/the world is changed much? Lifestyles of human are even more immoral and perverted than before. Just look at music video's, videogames and movies, look at the wars going on, the terrorism, the worship of idols, false prophets, new age, occultism, gayness. This world only has proven that it needs a Savior to get rid of sin once and for all. *
lmao. Gayness has been around since the dawn of time. Many Romans engaged in homosexual acts way back in the day. Are you really that naïve to think that gayness just came around in the new age? It's because people feel less repressed and equal and so they are out with their gayness. Back then people where still gay but it was less acceptable so they chose to hide that lifestyle. Look at all the wars that went on back then. Do you think wars and terrorism are new things? Look at all the different religions that existed back then, do you think false prophets is really a new thing in society? All this stuff that you mentioned existed back then as well, they are nothing new. About the only new thing that can have bad repercussions is technology. If you don't like it, then don't partake in it, simple. You're using technology right now to respond to me so if you're against the internet and movies and video games and all that "bad stuff" then don't use it.


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

nothing else said:


> But when good things happen we attribute it to God. How many times have you heard miracles happen and Christians say "thank you God." And yet when bad things happen it's not attributed to God, but to people. If God is capable of doing good things then he should also be capable of doing good by preventing bad things from happening. I often hear Christians thanking God for the little things. At my past church people get up and say "thank you God for giving me a raise at work" or "I had misplaced my phone and found it a few days ago and so now I don't need a new one, thank you God." And yet there are entire countries and continents where people pray everyday for a morsel of bread and for the bare minimums to live and yet thousands still die of poverty, illnesses, and starvation. Surely if God can grant somebody a cell phone he should be able to grant starving children some food, no? We should take responsibilities for our actions, you are right. But this includes both the good and the bad. To attribute bad things to humans and good things to God would be biased and erroneous.
> 
> Furthermore, religion is not a new phenomenon; it's been around for eons. I have to laugh when people say that more people need to turn to God to make this world a better place. Historically we can see this is not true. Back in the Medieval times, religion dominanted all aspects of daily living. If we look at the quality of life during these times it was worse than today; females were repressed and had no rights, aristocrats/upper class had the most privilege, there were slaves and peasants who had very few rights, and the justice system was very unjust. So to say not enough people ask God's strength to serve him to change the world, would again be erroneous. People have tried this in the past and it never works. Religion is obviously not the answer. It has been done before and did not produce. If we look at today's society and how we have advanced with better rights for women, better judicial system, better understanding of cures for illnesses and improved healthcare, equal rights for minority groups etc. I think we can attribute this to the weakening hold of the church on the state. If the church was still in control of all aspects of life (as it was), there would be little advancement in these areas I'm sure of it.


if islam ruled the west it would be better than secularism. secularism is better than the church but still secularism is very sexist, racist, violent. and full of poverty. with islam as the rulers such things would be almost gone.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

@*No one* else

If you are more thankful you will receive more. Say thank you more and people will like you more. If you complain a lot and are an unkind person you will less open to receive.
You don't understand. I mean spiritually. Worldly people without God are not as blessed spiritually than believers. Because wordly people only have material things. Because even persecuted Christians still have their faith to hold on to. But if materially rich people lose their money they have nothing left. Eventually you will receive what you ask,
sooner or later. And if not in this life, in the afterlife. And most believers know God is not some kind of genie in a bottle who grants every wish at that moment. Prayer is about trust and knowing that you will receive it in advance befoe you get it. If you don't get what you want you have not enough faith or trust or try to fool God. I have heard so many
Christians who received everything they prayed for and who been blessed. So it's true that a life with God is blessed. Well if I want something but can't get it and I pray I know it's from God. Maybe if you believe in luck but I don't. I believe everything is meant to be or it wouldn't happen. Human's have personal subjective truth, only God has absolute
truth because He is the only moral authority and all knowing Creator. A muslim could pray for healing but is it through the right source? If a bad energy or spirit heals you, you're not really healed but worse of. I have seen so many people getting saved and healed through God and who are truelly healthy and better of. So you just draw your conclusions based on conversations, testimonies, experiences, and stories.

Who are you to say what God can do or not? You don't even believe in Him. God does enough. He saves so many people. So many converts and healings every day. Just because not everyone is healed doesn't mean He doesn't perform miracles. If someone needs more help than another is all based on subjective and moral opinion. How can God
think that way? Put another of His creations over another? No, He loves us all equally. But try understand that God created us a certain way. He gave free will and authority over the earth to us. So we are responsible for each other. He clearly has made His truth clear enough. So it's our fault if we mess up and choose to deny Him and ask for His help.
And no, I don't know why God decides someone has to die or someone doesn't heal. For me it's all about how close to God you are. Because God doesn't want to intervene with sin or take free will away. He is love and the opposite of evil. So He hears those who repent and choose to follow Him. Sinners choose not to, and reap what they sowe. You have
to see the consequences of sin and learn from your ways. Become humble and remorseful enough over your sin to turn from it and go to God. That is the plan. See God made it this way, I didn't. I just try to better understand Him and His plans. See, you wouldn't want God to stop you, but then again you want God to stop another person sinning. Either God stops both of you because He loves you both as much, or He doesn't. Would it be fair if God loved you more than another person? God used people who follow Him and listen
to His commandments. He is with the righteous. So yes, God can do wonders in those people's lives. But He won't tell people to sin or stop sinning. He hates sin.

They don't choose to be sick but disease and starvation are only consequences of an imperfect sinful world. Humans made it that way. Remember God's creation once was perfect (God saw it was good) and humans and animals lived side by side in paradise. Humans create their living circumstances. Humans chose to produce babies. Humans
chose to live in certain surroundings. Humans chose to sin or not. It's like the old excuse of people in the ghetto who have no option to sell drugs or move out the ghetto. Ofcourse you do. Plenty made it out with determination, motivation and hard work. There's drugs but you don't have to sell them or smoke them. Resist temptation. If you shoot a gun is the gun at fault or you? You ofcourse. So it's all choices we can freely make.

How do you know? I fight sin everyday as best as I can. I don't choose to sin everyday. Not willingly that is. And yes, Christians are reborn and through salvation God has set you free from the bondage of sin so that you no longer live in it. Christians have the ability to sin but they don't live in sin anymore. And if you might stumble there is forgivness. For sinners living in sin there is no forgiveness if they don't ask. Ofcourse the devil is good at sinning, who isn't? Resisting and overcoming sin is actually hard to do. Try it daily. God doesn't tempt He sets free from evil so He's more powerful. The light overcomes the darkness. Good defeats evil. Satan was thrown on earth to try to deceive as many as he can. So it's not about being more powerful, it's about God allowing people to choose between Him and satan.

I said that God can't be hate and love at the same time. His actions are always righteous. He has reasons for His actions. We just can't always see or understand.

Well I can see if God or Jesus makes people happy in their words, actions or how they look. Not hard to see.

What the Bible teaches is not that hard. Love others as yourself, and love God is the most important message. There might be many denominations but we agree on the most basic and important message. Also I don't look at man or his fault but at God and His word. So I have no problem how a certain person might believe. It's personal.
And because we are all different. We all agree God is love and that Jesus saves and that is the most important. So God can be truth and humans not. There is a reason Christians do not believe in, and worship humans, but God.

Again, you minimalize religion and what it can do. I don't only look at the bad but also the good.

I only said there's more evil at the same time. Nature disasters increased, wars increased, terrorism increased, immorality, Christian persecution....That is why a lot of Christians believe we are living in the last days. Look at the pop stars of today and how they are dancing almost naked in video's, performing all sorts of perverted acts.
Video's are more xplicit than ever before. Games more violent and occult. Movies also. The Bible says that when immorality will increase the end is near. Technology combining with humans. and producing human robots is a dangerous concept. Also microchips implanted in humans. That is the danger of technology I'm talking about.


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

*"If you don't get what you want you have not enough faith or trust or try to fool God."*

So a girl who wants to stop being repeatedly raped by her uncle every night and prays to God for it to end, is not praying hard enough? Nice way to victim blame. The problem with your argument is that sometimes prayers come true and sometimes they don't. When your prayers don't come true you're basically saying that it's the person who doesn't have enough faith in God. So this is clearly blaming the person and will make people go around feeling that they are guilty of everything. I would be careful saying those word around somebody who is on the verge of suicide. You will drive them closer to that bridge.

God doesn't love everybody equally. Africa must be the black sheep of the family then. Christians are also not reborn. That's their way of making excuses for bad things that they do. "Oops I just drank too much, oh well God will forgive me because he loves me." Probably why it's not surprising that religiosity is a strong factor related to serial killers. When people do bad things they try and find ways to reconcile it; namely religion.

And I still stand to my fact that the Devil is stronger than God. People are horrible. We are selfish and born to be this way; it's inherent in all of us. We put our children and family above others, our jobs above others, our lives above others. We are selfish. This is a fact you cannot deny. If you weren't selfish then you would throw away all your material possessions and help others in need. This would show you truly love others which the Bible so easily taught us (according to you). Many Christians probably don't follow God because of their true love for him but because of their fear of going to hell. God promises believers an eternal afterlife in heaven. I'm sure because we are genetically predispositioned to be selfish, many people are scared and so follow God out of fear. And the light does not defeat the darkness. As long as there are humans on this earth, there will always be wars, debauchery, evilness, etc. It will never stop. It's been here since the dawn of time and it will stay here until the end. So basically the Devil has a stronghold on humans and we are doomed.

As an aside, most Christians think they are special because they have God in their life but they aren't. People are people. I don't judge on colour, sexual orientation, gender, occupation status, or whatever, people are people. I know many Christians who thought they were super friendly and easy going and all-loving people, but to me I saw them no differently than anybody else. Just because you're Christian doesn't make you this friendly, accepting, all loving person. A lot of people are pretentious and phony. Like everybody else, they too only care about themselves. I remember a leader at the church I "used to go to" said that everybody should give away their shirts to help others because they could live with only two shirts (it isn't vital to have two shirts to live). Now do you think anybody would seriously do this? Probably not. And yet you have to ask yourself, why not? It's easy to downgrade. Several Christians who spout out BS about "we need to love others" don't act on it. As the famous saying goes, you should walk the walk instead of just talking the talk. If your motto is to love others, then show it. Give up everything you have (like Jesus did) and help others. You won't, because you're selfish as is every human on this planet.

So instead of going through and responding to my large response, I ask you this one question, would you give up everything you have to help somebody else and love them? Surely you could live in a tent outside and keep some items, but you'd be living like most poor people in third world countries.


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## Dreaming1111 (Aug 31, 2016)

I tend to follow what's in A Course in Miracles. We separated from God a long, long time ago asking if this was all there was. We became separated from God and feel guilty for this. We project our guilt of the separation into the world and on to other people. The world is an illusion/dream/matrix, what have you. We actually never left God but we think we have. God is aware we are in some sort of dream of our own creation and we are creating with everyone around us. God is not responsible for the pain in the world that is the ego at work. (The ego is the negative or evil pretty much) We work our way out of the guilt by doing forgiveness work. All the injustices we see is the projection of our guilt. The ego judges everything around us in a negative way. The way out of the illusion, dream, matrix is by doing forgiveness work. Forgiveness and love is the way. Easy to say hard to do. 
I have a hard time accepting how it is allowed that babies and children suffer as they cannon defend themselves. I guess it is all part of the separation guilt. 
BTW This is basically what Jesus tries to teach. Love and forgiveness is the way. Love and light is the way. Shine a light into the darkness and the darkness cannot continue. Use your love and shine your light in all the dark places and they cannot continue to exist. Peace and Love! <3


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## hoddesdon (Jul 28, 2011)

nothing else said:


> *"If you don't get what you want you have not enough faith or trust or try to fool God."*
> 
> So a girl who wants to stop being repeatedly raped by her uncle every night and prays to God for it to end, is not praying hard enough? Nice way to victim blame. The problem with your argument is that sometimes prayers come true and sometimes they don't. When your prayers don't come true you're basically saying that it's the person who doesn't have enough faith in God. So this is clearly blaming the person and will make people go around feeling that they are guilty of everything. I would be careful saying those word around somebody who is on the verge of suicide. You will drive them closer to that bridge.


I do not think there is anything to say that she could not leave and end it that way. There are women's shelters where she could go, which does detract from your comments that everyone is totally or overwhelmingly selfish. Yes, there are large areas of that,especially where someone does not judge the other person's difficulty to be serious enough. That judgement can itself be influenced by selfishness, since they want to give themselves an excuse not to act. However, there are many ways in which things are more humane than they used to be, e.g. universal health systems in some countries, so I do not think that things are as bleak as you portray. The Devil probably is more powerful than we are, but not more powerful than God, otherwise the abolition of slavery etc would not have taken place.


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## hoddesdon (Jul 28, 2011)

ljubo said:


> if islam ruled the west it would be better than secularism. secularism is better than the church but still* secularism is very *sexist, racist, violent. and full of poverty. with islam as the rulers such things would be almost gone.


????????????????????

In Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive and must be accompanied everywhere by a male relative.


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## Avolition (Aug 31, 2016)

MobiusX said:


> it's the same thing people do with animals so it's no different.


I feel like if God is real this is how he and humanity functions.

I am nothing to him, whatever happens to me I'm just another soul of legion. While I don't go out of my way to antagonize his supposed laws, teachings or whatever in the written form neither do I worship his godliness and supposed goodness. Why do, I never experienced his love or sympathy or support in my life, and who can prove all those fantastic stories anyway? None of that happens anymore, God is MIA, andI wouldn't be surprised if the faith and stories were made or hijacked by past heirophants or maybe nobles for political advantage.

But if he is real he is indifferent to me, why worship a God who doesn't care? Instead of worship anything I'll just focus with surviving as myself.


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

hoddesdon said:


> I do not think there is anything to say that she could not leave and end it that way. There are women's shelters where she could go, which does detract from your comments that everyone is totally or overwhelmingly selfish. Yes, there are large areas of that,especially where someone does not judge the other person's difficulty to be serious enough. That judgement can itself be influenced by selfishness, since they want to give themselves an excuse not to act. However, there are many ways in which things are more humane than they used to be, e.g. universal health systems in some countries, so I do not think that things are as bleak as you portray. The Devil probably is more powerful than we are, but not more powerful than God, otherwise the abolition of slavery etc would not have taken place.


My point wasn't what a raped victim would do. It was more the reason for it happening in the first place. I don't think people who "lack faith" suffer more or get punished. When bad things happen to people I would hope Christians wouldn't go around saying "you lack faith, you need to believe more." That's really insensitive.

I wouldn't say that the abolition of slavery was because of God. Slavery should have not existed in the first place if God could intervene. Further, there are areas in the Bible that don't really say to rise up against slavery, and so I would find it odd that people would believe that Christianity ended slavery.

Ephesians:
_Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ_

Imagine telling a slave this for some inspiration :grin2:


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## MobiusX (Nov 14, 2008)

Avolition said:


> I feel like if God is real this is how he and humanity functions.
> 
> I am nothing to him, whatever happens to me I'm just another soul of legion. While I don't go out of my way to antagonize his supposed laws, teachings or whatever in the written form neither do I worship his godliness and supposed goodness. Why do, I never experienced his love or sympathy or support in my life, and who can prove all those fantastic stories anyway? None of that happens anymore, God is MIA, andI wouldn't be surprised if the faith and stories were made or hijacked by past heirophants or maybe nobles for political advantage.
> 
> But if he is real he is indifferent to me, why worship a God who doesn't care? Instead of worship anything I'll just focus with surviving as myself.


Some people believe he is good, others evil, but you don't find many people like me who believe he is both. Once after 7th grade was over and it was revealed to my parents I would be going to summer school I was sent to my room for the rest of the day and all I know is that I slept, that's all I remember. But my brother and his friend tell of a different story. They were at the end of the street and some man pulls over in his car and goes to my brother and tries to take him inside. Someone who looks exactly like me including the freaking clothes I wore interfered and pulled the man's hands away from the man on the sidewalk and the guy just looked scared and drove away in his car. My brother and his friend ran back to tell my mom. I asked them where was the last place they saw me and they said I stayed back and was walking behind a tree and they didn't see where I went after that. I only heard this story the next day when they told it to my mom again with my sibling and his friend and the friend's mother. I grew up as a 7th Day Adventist and it's a well known belief plus written in the bible that angels can take human form. Both my sibling and his friend said they had a close up look and swear to this day it was me and could not be mistaken for somebody else.


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## porter (Jan 22, 2016)

You raise some very good points nothing else. Consider a few of these statements found in the bible and make up your own minds. Statements like the below leave no doubt in my mind about the true character of God.

*"I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace *[good]*, and CREATE EVIL; I the LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS."* Isa. 45:7

*"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL AND GOOD?"* (Lam. 3:38).

​ *"...an experience of EVIL hath God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby"* (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Translation).

​ *"Or has not the potter *[GOD]* the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor,  yet, on for DISHONOR?"* (Rom. 9:19-25).

​ *"...I *[GOD]* will bring EVIL from the north, and a GREAT DESTRUCTION"* (Jer. 4:6).

​ *"...Hear, O earth: behold, I *[GOD]* will bring EVIL upon this people..."* (Jer. 6:19).

​ *"And he said, I *[the lying spirit]* will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets... and He *[GOD]* said, ...GO forth, and DO SO"* (I Kg. 22:22).

​ *"He *[GOD]* turned their heart to HATE HIS PEOPLE..."* (Psa. 105:25).

​ *"...Thus said the Lord; Behold, I FRAME EVIL AGAINST YOU, and devise a device against you..."* (Jer. 18:11).

​ *"O LORD, why has THOU MADE US TO ERR from thy ways, and HARDENED OUR HEART from thy fear?"* (Isa. 63:17).

​ *"...so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until he have destroyed you..."* (Josh. 23:15).

​ *"...shall there be EVIL in a city, and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?"* (Am. 3:6).

​ *"Thus saith the Lord of hosts... go and SMITE Amelek... DESTROY... SLAY both man and woman, INFANT AND SUCKLING..."* (I Sam. 15:2-3).

​Truth is God not only created evil, but that He also creates and controls the evil circumstances we often find ourselves in. That does not mean I believe God forces us to do things we dont want to do, it's just usually we want to do evil things because God created us too weak to resist.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

nothing else said:


> *"If you don't get what you want you have not enough faith or trust or try to fool God."*
> 
> So a girl who wants to stop being repeatedly raped by her uncle every night and prays to God for it to end, is not praying hard enough? Nice way to victim blame. The problem with your argument is that sometimes prayers come true and sometimes they don't. When your prayers don't come true you're basically saying that it's the person who doesn't have enough faith in God. So this is clearly blaming the person and will make people go around feeling that they are guilty of everything. I would be careful saying those word around somebody who is on the verge of suicide. You will drive them closer to that bridge.
> 
> ...


Yes, it your faith, trust and closeness to God matters. The stronger and better your relationship the more God can work in your life. Ofcourse this is fair. Would it be fair that sinners (farest from God) who don't care about God get blessed as much as believers (closest to God) who try their best to remain faithful and keep the faith during all their struggles? Do you think it would be fair sinners get blessed as much as believers? Ofcourse not. That is the difference between sinners and believers. God hates sin, and loves righteousness. Jesus said it's all about belief and faith. Why don't you have faith? Your faith is too small! Either you have faith in yourself only or in God. We make choices, we choose to sin, so it's our fault not God's. God only loves us, is willing help us.

God loves us equally. His sun shines on the righteous and unrighteous. We choose not to love Him equally. God is always waiting for us to answer/call. He is there by your side during your struggles. But we often curse Him. So why should He help if you don't want Him to?
And you are only describing hypocritical Christians. True Christians live Christ like and don't live in sin.

THe devil only has as much power as God allows. He is only an angel. God created Him holy originally. In fact, we Christians even can judge angels. So we are even stronger. People chose to sin. And he who sins is of the devil. So people give satan all the power in their lives. So the devil only is as strong depending on how much power you give him. "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions, and to overcome ALL the power of the enemy". I agree, sinners as selfish, their live for their ego, lust, materialism, addiction, and sin destroys themselves and others. So I decide to live an opposite lifestyle. I want to love others as myself and God. You act like people have no choice to sin. Like they can't help it being that way. While it's a willingly choice to rebel against God. If I didn't love you I wouldn't take the time to tell you all of this. Like I said it's not about having wealth. God promises He will give us everything we need. It is about not loving the world and it's possesions and gathering them, but gathering treasures in heaven. I do also help good causes. So love is not only material but spiritual and emotional. Again, being afraid of God and living in fear is not true love. True love casts out all fear. So the promise of an eternal life should take it away.

If God asks me directly to give up everything I would. But He doesn't ask that. He only asks that we don't live for wordly things and don't give our soul to those things but live for God's kingdom. So I agree hypocritical belief and fear is not good. Just because there is evil doesn't mean it will win. The light is always stronger, sin wis only temporary, God is eternal. The spirit is eternal and can never die. The mortal body with sin is not everlasting. Evil one day will be gone when the new earth will come. That is a nice prospect. The only thing you can do is try your best to spread love and warn people for the consequences of sin. The devil only has his way on this tiny earth, and most people still believe in God. So, what power does satan really have? God rules this universe.

Christians aren't perfect or special. But God thinks we are all special and equal. We are only happy because we are saved from sin and death. I believe we shouldn't judge when with sin, but we (Christians) can judg righteously when it's needed and justified. I believe it's very loving from Christians to tell the truth and try to bring people to God so that they might be saved from death. Sinners don't even care to do that because they live their lives egoistically and selfishly. And I believe we should care for each others enough to help them from destruction. That is the only reason we tell God's word. It's about others and not ourselves. Do you know how many people everyday get saved because someone told them the word? It would be a hopeless world without Christians. Because the Bible says we are the light of the world. So let your lamp shine. God sees your true intentions. Some atheists can be more friendly and accepting than Christians sure. That is why God looks at our hearts and not our deeds or appearance. We are saved by grace through faith, not through works. So do what you can. I agree with a lot you say, but you have to realize this is about sin, redemption and righteous in the eyes of God.

Like I said, it's not about material things. But about spiritual matters. Make sure you spirit is righteous and holy. You go sell your possesions if you are about talk the talk. God doesn't ask that of us. He blesses us with everything we ask. So please realize this is about living not in sin and loving God and loving others as yourself.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

"He only asks that we don't live for wordly things and don't give our soul to those things but live for God's kingdom"

When did he ask you that ?


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## ljubo (Jul 26, 2015)

The god of christianity does not care.

But allah cares.


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## SFC01 (Feb 10, 2016)

Allah cares ? I suggest that he brushes up on his caring skills.


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Royals said:


> Yes, it your faith, trust and closeness to God matters. The stronger and better your relationship the more God can work in your life. Ofcourse this is fair. Would it be fair that sinners (farest from God) who don't care about God get blessed as much as believers (closest to God) who try their best to remain faithful and keep the faith during all their struggles? Do you think it would be fair sinners get blessed as much as believers? Ofcourse not. That is the difference between sinners and believers. God hates sin, and loves righteousness. Jesus said it's all about belief and faith. Why don't you have faith? Your faith is too small! Either you have faith in yourself only or in God. We make choices, we choose to sin, so it's our fault not God's. God only loves us, is willing help us.


So I guess with that logic you would conclude that this 21-month year old who was beaten to death by her father lacked faith and that is why God didn't do much work in her life? I guess this 21-month old made the wrong choice then.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/york-father-admits-killing-cancer-052601502.html

Anyway you can't convince me otherwise so please don't. It's still a hopeless world with Christians. The last time I checked, Christianity was the predominant religion and our world is still a horrible place (unless you think babies getting beaten to death is good, along with all the other atrocities). And by you being on this site you must be struggling with a mental illness and therefore your faith must be weak. If your faith was strong then why else would you be suffering? Right??

Sorry to break it to you but Christians will not solve these world problems. In fact the man who murdered his daughter claimed he was inspired by God. Ironic isn't it.


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## porter (Jan 22, 2016)

Seems almost kind of silly to have to say this, but I'm fairly sure bad things happen to not only non Christians, but Christians also.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:*it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by i*t.

Likewise, both the 'righteous' and the 'unrighteous' are blessed also.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: *for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust*.

A true believer would know that 'trials and tribulations' are the norm while following Christ's footsteps with an assurance and confidence that all things are working for the best possible outcome.

Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I think we can all agree life can be tough and very painful at times. Blaming or even trying to defend God is the wrong approach to understanding. He has an incredible plan for all of humanity, we just need to trust He knows what He is doing with *HIS* creation. Much easier said then done being able to trust Him, believe me I know.


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## annaloverlee (Sep 24, 2016)

Ventsalot said:


> What kind of God is this that watches people suffer and turns a blind eye to it? _Staff edit_


I think if you are really reaching out and searching, you might ponder this perspective.

It's an article titled: "We can't be trapped by evil."

Here is a quick excerpt:

"If God, Spirit, truly fills all space and is all-powerful, there couldn't be another equal and opposite power eternally fighting God-and trapping man in a perpetual state of mental and physical warfare. God, who is good, couldn't create or cause evil. His offspring are created in His spiritual likeness, and evil is no inherent part of our real nature as the sons and daughters of God."

http://sentinel.christianscience.com/shared/view/rkivxd5z7q?s=e


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

SFC01 said:


> "He only asks that we don't live for wordly things and don't give our soul to those things but live for God's kingdom"
> 
> When did he ask you that ?


Jesus said that so I obey.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

nothing else said:


> So I guess with that logic you would conclude that this 21-month year old who was beaten to death by her father lacked faith and that is why God didn't do much work in her life? I guess this 21-month old made the wrong choice then.
> 
> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/york-father-admits-killing-cancer-052601502.html
> 
> ...


The baby didn't do anything wrong. The dad did. The dad didn't follow God. The baby went to heaven and is in everlasting peace with God. The dad reaps what he sowes and is punished. Sinful behavior and sin is just a consequence of a fallen world. And you can't accept that. But sin will be punished sooner or later so God is righteous.

I don't need to convince you. I am just saying that Christians still help the poor the most and donate the most money to good causes. Churches and Christian NGO's help the most of all organisations. And their prayers heal al lot of people and God save a lot of souls. So yes, without God's people this world would be worse off. Ofcourse sin isn't gone as long as people choose to sin. But still, the most people in this world believe in God and are good people. You can see how it's going in communist countries and with atheistic dictator leaders during the ages. Death and no freedom of speech. Christians are still persecuted for their faith like Jesus predicted. You don't focus on the good, only choose to focus on the evil. I rather find a way how to heal the world. And still, only Christ teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves and to love our enemies. So only in Him we will find true peace and love for ourselves and others.

You drawed your own conclusions. I am on this site to help others, to talk to them, give them advise, share my video's, not to look for help. I want to love others as myself and share God's light and love. My faith is strong, the spirit is strong, the flesh is weak. The fear is in the flesh. But God makes me strong. Jesus never promised a life without worries. But He promises you can overcome your problems and helps to resist temptation. So who knows where I would be without God. So suffering is unavoidable. I just choose not to drown in my sorrows but instead use positivity to focus on the good.


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Royals said:


> The baby didn't do anything wrong. The dad did. The dad didn't follow God. The baby went to heaven and is in everlasting peace with God. The dad reaps what he sowes and is punished. Sinful behavior and sin is just a consequence of a fallen world. And you can't accept that. But sin will be punished sooner or later so God is righteous.
> 
> I don't need to convince you. I am just saying that Christians still help the poor the most and donate the most money to good causes. Churches and Christian NGO's help the most of all organisations. And their prayers heal al lot of people and God save a lot of souls. So yes, without God's people this world would be worse off. Ofcourse sin isn't gone as long as people choose to sin. But still, the most people in this world believe in God and are good people. You can see how it's going in communist countries and with atheistic dictator leaders during the ages. Death and no freedom of speech. Christians are still persecuted for their faith like Jesus predicted. You don't focus on the good, only choose to focus on the evil. I rather find a way how to heal the world. And still, only Christ teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves and to love our enemies. So only in Him we will find true peace and love for ourselves and others.
> 
> You drawed your own conclusions. I am on this site to help others, to talk to them, give them advise, share my video's, not to look for help. I want to love others as myself and share God's light and love. My faith is strong, the spirit is strong, the flesh is weak. The fear is in the flesh. But God makes me strong. Jesus never promised a life without worries. But He promises you can overcome your problems and helps to resist temptation. So who knows where I would be without God. So suffering is unavoidable. I just choose not to drown in my sorrows but instead use positivity to focus on the good.


And you think that is just and fair, that a baby should die based on the sin of her father? The baby had her own future and she was robbed of a life. How is that a God of justice when he punishes the baby for nothing that she did? This doesn't sound like a peaceful God to me. I have to laugh when Christians justify the death of innocent people by saying that they are in an "everlasting" heaven. You completely overlooked my comment; eternity is a long time. There is no way to justify that God needed that baby to be in heaven when she could have had a chance at life, and then have a whole eternity to be in heaven. With your logic then you should go around killing kids and then tell their parents that they are now in an everlasting heaven, and therefore you didn't do anything wrong. Sounds moronic doesn't it.

And your argument that people would be worse off without Christians is flawed. Contrary to what you may think, religion actually separates people, it does not bring them together. Most of the underlying reasons why people are divided (i.e. in the middle eastern, western values etc) is that their religious and cultural beliefs are fundamentally different. If humans never created religious dogma or doctrine, there would be less fights over "which God is better." People can argue and say most wars and disagreements are for political or economical reasons, but the underlying cause lies in the social and cultural structures in which countries and people are embedded; at the core of this is their religious beliefs.

And not only Christ teaches us about loving our enemies and neighbours. I'm pretty sure people who don't follow the Bible still have morals (a lot of morals are actually based on common sense: don't lie, don't steal, don't murder etc.). And the fact that several Christians read the Bible and still end up doing immoral things (many serial killers identify as Christian) is evidence that the Bible is not a book to teach morals. People are people. Religiosity does not dictate how people will behave. If the wrong Christian reads the Bible and misinterprets it he can do dangerous things. If the right Christian interprets the Bible he can do good things. So what this essentially boils down to is the individual and not Christianity itself that fosters moral values. A lot of people learn about morals from their parents too and other social supports. I know many people who were raised Christian who turned out....not so good. So there's your theory debunked.

You can go ahead and share "God's light and love" but your approach of cherry picking will sadly not be overlooked. You can't claim God is a God of love when there's direct passages in the very Bible that you preach which describe him as vengeful, angry and to be feared. So you can freely preach to gullible people but most people who have read through the Bible and don't follow things blindly without reason, will see that God cannot be encapsulated with terms of peace and love, rather he is a multi-construct that includes perhaps more negative characteristics as well. Maybe these darker characteristics are needed and useful. But I don't understand why Christians ignore this and choose to sweep these things under the rug. Throughout the Bible we don't see a unidimensional representation of God as unconditionally loving; there are instances where he acts in violence. To say otherwise would exude pretentiousness, which isn't very becoming when you're supposed to be holy and all.


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