# Sister is teaching my 3 year old neice (her daughter) about "God"



## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Saying things like what's Gods name? and she replies _"Jesus"_, Whats the evil God's name that makes us do bad things? _"That's the devil" _Where do bad people go when they die?_ "Hell with the devil"_. I literally cringed when I overheard that conversation. I feel like its child abuse to indoctrinate a child that young before they have the ability to make a decision for themselves on the matter. To instill the fear of a concept of some imaginary "Evil being" torturing you for eternity if you don't behave is indeed abuse. Children take things literally and don't understand metaphors, I know I did as a child. And what happens when she one day becomes accepted to some prestigious university and goes into her biology 101/anthropology class expecting to learn about Adam and Eve? I feel like people are just setting their children up for future disapointment or a lifetime of being sheep who can't think for themselves by brainwashing them like this .

I didn't say anything to my sister about it but I think I should. I'm sure that conversation won't go well though, because she doesn't have much sense.

Should I say anything about it?


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## Famous (Sep 6, 2011)

Knowbody said:


> Saying things like what's Gods name? and she replies _"Jesus"_, Whats the evil God's name that makes us do bad things? _"That's the devil" _Where do bad people go when they die?_ "Hell with the devil"_. I literally cringed when I overheard that conversation. I feel like its child abuse to indoctrinate a child that young before they have the ability to make a decision for themselves on the matter. To instill the fear of a concept of some imaginary "Evil being" torturing you for eternity if you don't behave is indeed abuse. Children take things literally and don't understand metaphors, I know I did as a child. And what happens when she one day becomes accepted to some prestigious university and goes into her biology 101/anthropology class expecting to learn about Adam and Eve? *I feel like people are just setting their children up for future disapointment or a lifetime of being sheep who can't think for themselves by brainwashing them like this *.
> 
> I didn't say anything to my sister about it but I think I should. I'm sure that conversation won't go well though, because she doesn't have much sense.
> 
> Should I say anything about it?


Well, I dont think that your niece will get brainwashed into being a sheep by learning to discern between good and bad, 
But perhaps if someone plonkes her infront of a screen full of corp ads and misinformation(ie; the tv/net) everyday for the rest of her childhood it may result in a desire to herd with other members of the flock


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

theres gotta be a better way of teaching a child the general concepts of "good" from "bad" (these terms are really hazy anyway and opinions on whats good/bad varies) without mentioning an Invisible being in the sky.


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## The Silent 1 (Aug 21, 2011)

This is one of the things I would worry about if I married a woman who was very religious. Once a doctrine like this takes hold at such a young age, it becomes so engrained in you that it becomes that much more difficult to get rid of. I've had long arguments with theists where I've countered every argument they've had, shown them research, and facts that dispute what they're saying only for them to simply throw up their hands and decide they will still believe because of "faith".

At the end of the day though, thats her 3 year old daughter so you shouldn't say anything. If your sister has those values shes going to teach them to her.


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## Famous (Sep 6, 2011)

Knowbody said:


> theres gotta be a better way of teaching a child the general concepts of "good" from "bad" (these terms are really hazy anyway and opinions on whats good/bad varies) without mentioning an Invisible being in the sky.


I hear you, perhaps you could sublty remind her that there are other brands of "fairy story" out there which help to cultivate morals in our youth...
For instance; Hans Christian Andersen, or The Brothers Grimm, or hmmm, 3 y o might be a bit young for learning the life morals though?


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Knowbody said:


> Saying things like what's Gods name? and she replies _"Jesus"_, Whats the evil God's name that makes us do bad things? _"That's the devil" _Where do bad people go when they die?_ "Hell with the devil"_. I literally cringed when I overheard that conversation. I feel like its child abuse to indoctrinate a child that young before they have the ability to make a decision for themselves on the matter. To instill the fear of a concept of some imaginary "Evil being" torturing you for eternity if you don't behave is indeed abuse. Children take things literally and don't understand metaphors, I know I did as a child. And what happens when she one day becomes accepted to some prestigious university and goes into her biology 101/anthropology class expecting to learn about Adam and Eve? I feel like people are just setting their children up for future disapointment or a lifetime of being sheep who can't think for themselves by brainwashing them like this .
> 
> I didn't say anything to my sister about it but I think I should. I'm sure that conversation won't go well though, because she doesn't have much sense.
> 
> Should I say anything about it?


Is it indoctrination? Three-year-olds can't completely put things into words like adults can.

You don't have much of a right to say anything to her as much as she could say anything to you about your kids. Your niece may be all right in the long run.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

millenniumman75 said:


> Is it indoctrination? Three-year-olds can't completely put things into words like adults can.
> 
> You don't have much of a right to say anything to her as much as she could say anything to you about your kids. Your niece may be all right in the long run.


Teaching a child that she'll burn in hellfire for eternity is child abuse, because at that age they don't realize its rubbish and they actually believe such a thing will happen. Its no different than the racist family who were arrested for child abuse because they named their children Aryan Nation and Adolf Hitler, you shouldn't force those ideals on a child so young. Wait until they have the ability to make the decision on their own. I don't have any kids but if I did I certainly would not force my atheist worldview on them, I'll answer their questions and let them know that this is only "my" opinion but ultimately I would want them to follow their own path and find their own way. I'd want them to think for themselves instead of just simply regurgitating what someone tells them.


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## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

Knowbody said:


> Teaching a child that she'll burn in hellfire for eternity is child abuse, because at that age they don't realize its rubbish and they actually believe such a thing will happen. Its no different than the racist family who were arrested for child abuse because they named their children Aryan Nation and Adolf Hitler, you shouldn't force those ideals on a child so young. Wait until they have the ability to make the decision on their own. I don't have any kids but if I did I certainly would not force my atheist worldview on them, I'll answer their questions and let them know that this is only "my" opinion but ultimately I would want them to follow their own path and find their own way. I'd want them to think for themselves instead of just simply regurgitating what someone tells them.


She is probably teaching her children to differentiate between good and evil in her way even though I probably wouldn't agree with some people's method. I certainly wouldn't compare it with how someone would teach their children to hate instead. Most people are against the idea of teaching the young to hate, but not so much to be good. These ideas are instilled in children books, kid shows, and etc. Shows what happens to bad people and rewards good people and etc.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Nada said:


> She is probably teaching her children to differentiate between good and evil in her way even though I probably wouldn't agree with some people's method. I certainly wouldn't compare it with how someone would teach their children to hate instead. Most people are against the idea of teaching the young to hate, but not so much to be good. These ideas are instilled in children books, kid shows, and etc. Shows what happens to bad people and rewards good people and etc.


You're indirectly teaching them to be separate and divisive from other people, which can lead to bigotry and hatred. What happens when the child runs into another child who was taught that Allah was God? 30 years later we're having holy wars _(I'm exaggerating but you get the point) _If some of these Taliban guys weren't brainwashed as youth with Islamic Fundamentalism then MAYBE they wouldn't be blowing themselves up and flying planes into buildings right now.


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## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

Knowbody said:


> You're indirectly teaching them to be separate and divisive from other people, which can lead to bigotry and hatred. What happens when the child runs into another child who was taught that Allah was God? 30 years later we're having holy wars _(I'm exaggerating but you get the point) _If some of these Taliban guys weren't brainwashed as youth with Islamic Fundamentalism then MAYBE they wouldn't be blowing themselves up and flying planes into buildings right now.


Ok what you are trying to do is instill your beliefs on other people's children, you have no right to do that.


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## squidlette (Jan 9, 2012)

That's her prerogative with her child. Best you can do is be a positive example of someone who lives their life without a deity, so that if the child decides as she grows up that she doesn't believe in any of it she knows she won't be alone. Everybody has to come to terms with what they believe or don't believe on their own.


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## albrecht (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't know if teaching children their parents' religion, especially hell, is necessarily brainwashing, but it will likely make their children more hesitant to (openly) disagree with their parents about anything. A child doesn't know what religion is. He/she just understands that it is what the parents believe, and that unbelief is punished for eternity.

I've often heard religious parents compare teaching children about hell to teaching them not to run into the street. First of all, one can teach a child about Christianity without teaching them that they (or others) are going to hell if they don't believe. Using positive reinforcement for behavior that aligns with Christian teachings - putting others before oneself, showing patience, being kind, not acting as if anyone is better or worse than oneself - is more effective (and scientifically shown to be so) than negatively reinforcing belief by teaching them that disobedience deserves (postponed) torture. Telling a child "I'm happy you're behaving as Christ would" is more effective than saying "People who don't behave this way are going to hell." Especially telling children that they ought to believe things that have no practical consequences - the doctrine of the Trinity, for example, or that bread and wine are the literal body and blood of Christ - in order to be 'saved,' seems counterproductive. 

Practical Christian ethics do not require the same "in-group/out-group" mentality as abstract, unverifiable teachings. Doctrines such as the Trinity act only as in-group, cult-like signifiers. Nothing about teaching children about the different ways they can show love to their neighbors requires that mentality.

Knowbody, perhaps rather than confronting your sister about the negative aspects of teaching her child about hell, you could try to act as the positive reinforcer for your niece. Rather than telling her that hell is false, reward her with love and affection for good behavior. Discourage any feelings of shame by showing her how proud you are of her when she does good things (including thinking for herself when it is done in a positive and respectful way).


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

Whether or not it's a problem really depends on what flavor of religion is being taught. Teach acceptance, love thy neighbor, help the poor, that sort of thing? No problem, carry on.

Teach some backwards fundie faith that, for example, paints homosexuals as subhuman - and then there is a problem. Both because the child can become an insufferable bigot, and because of the potential damage to the child.

I know someone who was raised in a very fundamentalist family, then on puberty, discovered they were bisexual. That turned into a horror story.


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## Kennnie (Oct 21, 2010)

Stop THAT ***** NOW!!!!!!!!! QUICK SHE ****IN CRAZED


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## BobbyByThePound (Apr 4, 2012)

Honestly, I don't think it's ideal. It's not how I would raise my child. But there's nothing you can do about it and just about every child gets taught to be religious and obviously not everybody with a religious upbringing ends up being messed up.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Quite honestly it's none of your business. The mother has every right to instill her beliefs onto her own child and from what I have read they are not hurtful or negative. In time the child will grow up to make her own choices like so many do.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

That's so sad :/ Nothing like indoctrinating a little kid that doesn't have the ability to make sense of those concepts yet. It's just as comparable as indoctrinating them with their political beliefs at that age. Which isn't right at all either. But because it's religion it will get a special pass :roll Should you say anything about it though...not really. Just hope the kid is good at seeing through stupidity and bad evidence later in life.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

The mother believes that to be the truth. It would hardly seem like 'abuse' to enlighten your child to the truth.... even if it actually isn't. Burning in hell for sins is as real as boiling water to her. She would also teach the kid not to touch boiling water. I really don't see the problem, other than they are teaching against _your _beliefs.


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

So the mother can be excused from being criticized due to her own ignorance? That's quite handy.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Knowbody said:


> Saying things like what's Gods name? and she replies _"Jesus"_, Whats the evil God's name that makes us do bad things? _"That's the devil" _Where do bad people go when they die?_ "Hell with the devil"_. I literally cringed when I overheard that conversation. I feel like its child abuse to indoctrinate a child that young before they have the ability to make a decision for themselves on the matter. To instill the fear of a concept of some imaginary "Evil being" torturing you for eternity if you don't behave is indeed abuse. Children take things literally and don't understand metaphors, I know I did as a child. And what happens when she one day becomes accepted to some prestigious university and goes into her biology 101/anthropology class expecting to learn about Adam and Eve? I feel like people are just setting their children up for future disapointment or a lifetime of being sheep who can't think for themselves by brainwashing them like this .
> 
> I didn't say anything to my sister about it but I think I should. I'm sure that conversation won't go well though, because she doesn't have much sense.
> 
> Should I say anything about it?


100% agreed. The indoctrination of children is immoral and wrong.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Knowbody said:


> You're indirectly teaching them to be separate and divisive from other people, which can lead to bigotry and hatred. What happens when the child runs into another child who was taught that Allah was God? 30 years later we're having holy wars _(I'm exaggerating but you get the point) _If some of these Taliban guys weren't brainwashed as youth with Islamic Fundamentalism then MAYBE they wouldn't be blowing themselves up and flying planes into buildings right now.


Indeed. Children should only be taught the natural human moral values which have existed for hundreds of thousands of years and allow us to life in big social groups and prosper. While religions do teach most of them they aren't required in this day and age, and they also teach mainly nonsense and myth, which is wrong and abusive, so should be abolished. With modern criminal justice systems there should be no reason to scare people with the fear of god.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

It's nonsense and myth to you maybe, but not to the mother. Not going to get into a debate about religion, I myself do not believe in God, but I fail to see what is wrong with the mother teaching the daughter her beliefs which she believes will help her own child through life. And for a lot of people those beliefs DO help them through life.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Ospi said:


> It's nonsense and myth to you maybe, but not to the mother. Not going to get into a debate about religion, I myself do not believe in God, but I fail to see what is wrong with the mother teaching the daughter her beliefs which she believes will help her own child through life. And for a lot of people those beliefs DO help them through life.


The teaching of ignorance is wrong and mankind should strive to abolish it.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

I decided to leave it alone


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Knowbody said:


> I decided to leave it alone


Boo. But fair enough, you obviously have your reasons.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

she'll figure it out eventually if she has any common sense _(we all were brought up religious and yet I managed to break away from it)_, but if she doesn't then more power to her.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Knowbody said:


> she'll figure it out eventually if she has any common sense _(we all were brought up religious and yet I managed to break away from it)_, but if she doesn't then more power to her.


Yeah hopefully reason wins.


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## Dark Alchemist (Jul 10, 2011)

Quite unfortunate. But I hope you can be a cool uncle (or aunt idk) as she grows older and perhaps glean some healthy skepticism and freethinking traits from you.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Knowbody said:


> Saying things like what's Gods name? and she replies _"Jesus"_, Whats the evil God's name that makes us do bad things? _"That's the devil" _Where do bad people go when they die?_ "Hell with the devil"_. I literally cringed when I overheard that conversation. *I feel like its child abuse to indoctrinate a child that young before they have the ability to make a decision for themselves on the matter.* To instill the fear of a concept of some imaginary "Evil being" torturing you for eternity if you don't behave is indeed abuse. Children take things literally and don't understand metaphors, I know I did as a child. And what happens when she one day becomes accepted to some prestigious university and goes into her biology 101/anthropology class expecting to learn about Adam and Eve? I feel like people are just setting their children up for future disapointment or a lifetime of being sheep who can't think for themselves by brainwashing them like this .
> 
> I didn't say anything to my sister about it but I think I should. I'm sure that conversation won't go well though, because she doesn't have much sense.
> 
> Should I say anything about it?


What so its child abuse to teach a child your beliefs now?

Hmmm, so is it child abuse to let your child grow up witnessing a gay/bi/straight relationship?

Is it abuse to teach your child that all religion is wrong?

Is it abuse to tell children about santa and the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy?

Is it abuse to serve your child mashed potato rather than roast potato with their meals?

Its incredible how far people are taking this... truly bigoted..

Its not like the kid is PERMANENTLY set as a christian for life.. ****ing hell, so touchy, so hateful some of you are


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

Knowbody said:


> I decided to leave it alone


True words from someone who didn't reeeeeally mind what his niece grows up believing... just someone who found an excuse to bash religion.


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## Dark Alchemist (Jul 10, 2011)

Droidsteel said:


> True words from someone who didn't reeeeeally mind what his niece grows up believing... just someone who found an excuse to bash religion.


You don't need an excuse to bash religion. It deserves it.


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## The Silent 1 (Aug 21, 2011)

Droidsteel said:


> What so its child abuse to teach a child your beliefs now?
> 
> Hmmm, so is it child abuse to let your child grow up witnessing a gay/bi/straight relationship?
> 
> ...


Religious guilt is a powerful thing. Even people who realize they have no reason to believe in god, still have trouble shaking that guilt. I've heard atheists say they have trouble now even going into a church. The guilt that tells them that they are inherently deserving of an eternal damnation. The guilt that tells them theres a god watching their every actions and who cares if they masturbate or have premarital sex. Another poster on here was recently talking about how they were told in Church that their personal sins put Jesus on the cross and hammered in each nail and whip lash. I was told the same thing, and that can affect you. This sort of indoctrination at this age matters greatly because at this age it really becomes engrained in you and affects your development.

I agree with you that you shouldn't tell your children that all religion is wrong either. If I had kids I would tell them objectively what each religion had to say. If they asked me where I stood I wouldn't hide it, but would encourage them to think for themselves. I know atheist parents whose children later converted and they had no problem with it. I think this is the proper way to raise children.

When you teach them about this god at a young age, that becomes apart of their reality. They accept it like they accept any sort of rational explanation of things.

Forcing you kids to eat what you say isn't indoctrination, nor is having a gay/bi relationship in front of them. I dont' even know why you'd bring that up.


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## Jnmcda0 (Nov 28, 2003)

Personally, I think kids should be taught to think critically and to question why they believe things. At Yale University, there is a course on New Testament Studies and the professor's motto for the class is a Latin phrase: "De Omnibus Dubitandum", which means "question everything".


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## 50piecesteve (Feb 28, 2012)

its da end of tha world


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## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

So, I was out on a walk today and saw something that reminded me of this thread. I was walking down the sidewalk and happened to go past a building that does pregnancy screening, etc. And directly across the street from it is a mother and her 2 kids, all holding signs to protest. From my guesstimate, the kids had to be between the ages of 5 and 10. Both of the kids had big anti-abortion signs hanging in front of them and the mom had them handing out anti-abortion literature. It was perhaps the most depressing sight I've seen all week.

At what point is it wrong for the mother to impart her beliefs on children so young? Children of that age do not have the experience, knowledge, or ability to comprehend an issue as complex as abortion. If she wants to protest the issue, fine. But leave the children out of it. They can form their own beliefs on it as they grow up.

But at the same time I think of it from the mentality of someone who actually believes their actions are supported by religious scripture and I wonder who is really to blame here. I'd like to say the mother is at fault. But what am I really blaming her for? Intellectual laziness? An inability to fully comprehend the consequences of her actions on her children (though from her vantage point her actions are quite justified)? It just amazes me that people think it's OK to involve their children in something like this. I think what's largely to blame is an education that apparently doesn't do enough to teach people critical thinking skills, and a culture where challenging religious practices and ideas seems to be considered taboo.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

huh said:


> So, I was out on a walk today and saw something that reminded me of this thread. I was walking down the sidewalk and happened to go past a building that does pregnancy screening, etc. And directly across the street from it is a mother and here 2 kids, all holding signs to protest. From my guesstimate, the kids had to be between the ages of 5 and 10. Both of the kids had big anti-abortion signs hanging in front of them and the mom had them handing out anti-abortion literature. It was perhaps the most depressing sight I've seen all week.
> 
> At what point is it wrong for the mother to impart her beliefs on children so young? Children of that age do not have the experience, knowledge, or ability to comprehend an issue as complex as abortion. If she wants to protest the issue, fine. But leave the children out of it. They can form their own beliefs on it as they grow up.
> 
> But at the same time I think of it from the mentality of someone who actually believes their actions are supported by religious scripture and I wonder who is really to blame here. I'd like to say the mother is at fault. But what am I really blaming her for? Intellectual laziness? An inability to fully comprehend the consequences of her actions on her children (though from her vantage point her actions are quite justified)? It just amazes me that people think it's OK to involve their children in something like this. I think what's largely to blame is an education that apparently doesn't do enough to teach people critical thinking skills, and a culture where challenging religious practices and ideas seems to be considered taboo.


:|

What chance have those poor kids got? The anti-abortion lot are scum. You can bet it's them who are the homophobes and racists in our societies as well, and will be brainwashing their kids with an array of awful beliefs.


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## The Sleeping Dragon (Sep 29, 2011)

It's about time parenting should be licensed.


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## Princess143 (Jan 30, 2012)

I as a spiritualist do not believe in heaven or hell, how I described my father's death to my daughter was like this, I said picture a glass of water sitting in the sun, when you come back days later the water will appear to be gone, but it isnt, it just turned into water vapor, a persons spirit is like that too, it is made of energy and the energy in turn goes up and out of the body, so it is not really gone, it is everywhere, that is my take on death and eternity, although I do believe in the presence of a diving spirit or something called "god". It helped her to deal with his death, knowing that to her he is still present in her life, just as another energy form. I know people have differing opinions but this is mine ...


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

Nada said:


> She is probably teaching her children to differentiate between good and evil in her way even though I probably wouldn't agree with some people's method. I certainly wouldn't compare it with how someone would teach their children to hate instead. Most people are against the idea of teaching the young to hate, but not so much to be good. These ideas are instilled in children books, kid shows, and etc. Shows what happens to bad people and rewards good people and etc.


And some people never grow out of these fairytales


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## silentk (Apr 22, 2012)

First things first: I'm not an atheist, and I'm not going to put my beliefs on here.

I'd just like to say that your sister runs her own life and raises her own child. I think she should be allowed to teach her child however she wants, because that's probably what she believes. Just let her raise her daughter in the manner that she thinks will be best for her.

-K


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

ugh1979 said:


> 100% agreed. The indoctrination of children is immoral and wrong.


How do you raise a child and NOT indoctrinate them? Where does it stop? Forcing them to go to school, to learn a specific language, to live a certain way, to eat certain foods, to behave in a certain way, to be taught specific and established morals and rules and laws, to wear specific types of clothing, or clothing at all.

To raise a child IS indoctrination into a specific culture or society.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

ugh1979 said:


> The teaching of ignorance is wrong and mankind should strive to abolish it.


That's probably what the mother says as well. She probably thinks you are as ignorant about her truth as you believe she is of yours.


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## borsello0216 (Apr 26, 2012)

albrecht said:


> I don't know if teaching children their parents' religion, especially hell, is necessarily brainwashing, but it will likely make their children more hesitant to (openly) disagree with their parents about anything. A child doesn't know what religion is. He/she just understands that it is what the parents believe, and that unbelief is punished for eternity.
> 
> I've often heard religious parents compare teaching children about hell to teaching them not to run into the street. First of all, one can teach a child about Christianity without teaching them that they (or others) are going to hell if they don't believe. Using positive reinforcement for behavior that aligns with Christian teachings - putting others before oneself, showing patience, being kind, not acting as if anyone is better or worse than oneself - is more effective (and scientifically shown to be so) than negatively reinforcing belief by teaching them that disobedience deserves (postponed) torture. Telling a child "I'm happy you're behaving as Christ would" is more effective than saying "People who don't behave this way are going to hell." Especially telling children that they ought to believe things that have no practical consequences - the doctrine of the Trinity, for example, or that bread and wine are the literal body and blood of Christ - in order to be 'saved,' seems counterproductive.
> 
> ...


It is not you go to hell if you do bad. It is to teach a child if you deny him he will deny you.


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## albrecht (Oct 18, 2011)

borsello0216 said:


> It is not you go to hell if you do bad. It is to teach a child if you deny him he will deny you.


Which is actually far more disturbing and grotesque.


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## Foh_Teej (May 5, 2004)

it's perfectly ok to teach morals by using bull**** and lies.... as long as it works out for the greater good right?


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

The Sleeping Dragon said:


> It's about time parenting should be licensed.


I've been saying this for the longest, its just too easy to have kids and virtually anyone can have them which should be illegal. There should atleast be a 2 year class one should pass before being eligible to procreate.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

If anything you should at least let the child know you don't believe in anything, although I could imagine if i done it it being a possiblity that someone said i ended up like i am (sa ect.) because i dont believe in god. So it could backfire if she thinks you have a bad life (No offence meant).


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## borsello0216 (Apr 26, 2012)

Knowbody said:


> I've been saying this for the longest, its just too easy to have kids and virtually anyone can have them which should be illegal. There should atleast be a 2 year class one should pass before being eligible to procreate.


Who decides what we teach? You?


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## borsello0216 (Apr 26, 2012)

jJoe said:


> If anything you should at least let the child know you don't believe in anything, although I could imagine if i done it it being a possiblity that someone said i ended up like i am (sa ect.) because i dont believe in god. So it could backfire if she thinks you have a bad life (No offence meant).


You can have a perfectly good and blessed life without God, it is what happens after this that a Christian looks at. I don't see anything wrong with wanting the best in life for your child. Not all of us think that is money power homes education. It is moral and principals and principalities.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

borsello0216 said:


> Who decides what we teach? You?


Nope, all the top scientist, psychologist, intellects etc from across the world would have to meet up and decide on what should be required.


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## borsello0216 (Apr 26, 2012)

Knowbody said:


> Nope, all the top scientist, psychologist, intellects etc from across the world would have to meet up and decide on what should be required.


How do I roll my eyes on this thing. Do our leaders not have enough power, now they are going to tell me what I can teach my kid? What if they all got together and decided the bible was right and that is what the 2 year class will be, a big ole bible study, would you then feel equal to tell your child God does not exist, no then that would be unlawful. If you want equal rights, great, do not step on mine.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

borsello0216 said:


> You can have a perfectly good and blessed life without God, it is what happens after this that a Christian looks at. I don't see anything wrong with wanting the best in life for your child. Not all of us think that is money power homes education. It is moral and principals and principalities.


I think that the child should at least be shown options, seeing their uncle is an atheist could help them decide on their own what they want.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

Knowbody said:


> Nope, all the top scientist, psychologist, intellects etc from across the world would have to meet up and decide on what should be required.


I think theres too many culture conflicts to decide on this to be honest, if the goverment attempted to put laws into place like this there would be a huge back lash by both the east and west parts of the world.


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## borsello0216 (Apr 26, 2012)

jJoe said:


> I think theres too many culture conflicts to decide on this to be honest, if the goverment attempted to put laws into place like this there would be a huge back lash by both the east and west parts of the world.


Well. for fear of looking like a "religous nut" as some may view me. The bible does speak of the last of the prophecies to be fulfilled where there will be one government, one form or trade for goods and service, and peace throughout the world, and a special treat for those who hate, refuse or reject God, his church, his people will all just vanish.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

borsello0216 said:


> Well. for fear of looking like a "religous nut" as some may view me. The bible does speak of the last of the prophecies to be fulfilled where there will be one government, one form or trade for goods and service, and peace throughout the world, and a special treat for those who hate, refuse or reject God, his church, his people will all just vanish.


Do you mean just christians or people who believe in god from numerous religions? I can't believe in something which hasn't been proved and dying for it seems harsh.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

borsello0216 said:


> How do I roll my eyes on this thing. Do our leaders not have enough power, now they are going to tell me what I can teach my kid? What if they all got together and decided the bible was right and that is what the 2 year class will be, a big ole bible study, would you then feel equal to tell your child God does not exist, no then that would be unlawful. If you want equal rights, great, do not step on mine.


All the people i mentioned aren't "leaders" or are in politics. They're basically intellectual hippies. I'd rather have scientist deciding on important stuff for our country than lying politicians with law degrees or right wing ********.

Truth be told alot of the crime in our country could have been prevented if certain people _(poor and ignorant)_ didn't have babies. If you have no idea how you're going to pay for your childs education once he/she turns 18 and you're living pay check to pay check barely getting by then you have no right to have a child. An innocent child in modern times shouldn't have to grow up in poverty. When one does its entirely their parents fault. _(I know there are other social and political issues at hand as to why their parents were there but why further sour a bad situation by having a child? it only makes it worse)_

I'm barely above poverty myself and the only reason why I don't have kids or want them now _(Besides my SA)_ is because I can't afford one and probably won't be able to at any point in time in the future.


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## McShakesalot (Apr 25, 2012)

My mom raised me as a Catholic but when I was 17 I stopped going to church and started believing on what I thought was right and she wasn't bitter. When you're young you need someone to guide you but when you get older its up to you to decide for your own.


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## Joe (May 18, 2010)

McShakesalot said:


> My mom raised me as a Catholic but when I was 17 I stopped going to church and started believing on what I thought was right and she wasn't bitter. When you're young you need someone to guide you but when you get older its up to you to decide for your own.


I think thats a really good point


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## borsello0216 (Apr 26, 2012)

Knowbody said:


> All the people i mentioned aren't "leaders" or are in politics. They're basically intellectual hippies. I'd rather have scientist deciding on important stuff for our country than lying politicians with law degrees or right wing ********.
> 
> Truth be told alot of the crime in our country could have been prevented if certain people _(poor and ignorant)_ didn't have babies. If you have no idea how you're going to pay for your childs education once he/she turns 18 and you're living pay check to pay check barely getting by then you have no right to have a child. An innocent child in modern times shouldn't have to grow up in poverty. When one does its entirely their parents fault. _(I know there are other social and political issues at hand as to why their parents were there but why further sour a bad situation by having a child? it only makes it worse)_
> 
> I'm barely above poverty myself and the only reason why I don't have kids or want them now _(Besides my SA)_ is because I can't afford one and probably won't be able to at any point in time in the future.


Poor and ignorant should not have babies? Being that was the most ignorant statement I have ever heard then this includes you. It is my right to have children and raise them the way I choose, they are my child. There are extreme religous cults that choose to go underground with their children to be able to teach as they choose. In your perfect world I would be beside them, not in there beliefs in God, but there belief that I am free to do as I choose.


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## Knowbody (Jul 5, 2011)

Enforcing poverty and a harsh upbringing on an innocent being who just came into existence is also a form of child abuse 

It's a selfish thing to do IMO


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## justpassinby (Oct 21, 2008)

Knowbody said:


> Nope, all the top scientist, psychologist, intellects etc from across the world would have to meet up and decide on what should be required.


What if the elite top scientists, psychologists and intellects meet up and decide people with SA should be sterilized and required to be put away as they "believe" they do not contribute much to society? Your idea is a bit Hitler-ish.


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## lazy (Nov 19, 2008)

oh nature, you cruel paradox producing ***. What is this double edged sword you call a neocortex? If I was a slug, I wouldn't have to worry about all this.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

I think some of the people in this thread are overrating a little...

I mean people are talking about teaching stuff to kids as if it will be their permanent belief for life. People do learn and change as they get older ya know, otherwise we'd all still believe in santa clause and be scared of monsters under the bed.

Also, a lot of people on here are acting as if getting taught about Christianity as a kid is equivalent to sending them to a death camp! Guys.. its not that bad. Please calm down.


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## The Sleeping Dragon (Sep 29, 2011)

Droidsteel said:


> Also, a lot of people on here are acting as if getting taught about Christianity as a kid is equivalent to sending them to a death camp! Guys.. its not that bad. Please calm down.


Watch the documentary "Jesus Camp". But of course nothing is black and white. I've been taught about Christianity and I'm an atheist now. But that's because my parents were moderate and there was room for me to grow. Now if my parents were evangelicals, Jehovah's witnesses or Amish it would be a totally different think. The more extreme take parents take on religion the harder it is for the kid to grow as an individual. But like I said moderate Christians are fine. Sure Church sucked but it wasn't the end of the world. 

Life is not black or white. It's grey.


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## LittleSister (Jan 22, 2011)

As I've discovered (the hard way) there is an unwritten law that exists.... 

*Unless someone is not feeding, clothing or washing their child you have no right to say ANYTHING to them in any form* - And if you do --- the parents will come down on you like a ton of f*cking bricks. 

Usually with insults that go something along the lines of "You don't have kids so you wouldn't know... They're mine so i'll do what I like!" 

And then they will tell all of their friends with kids who will join in on the persecution... This is because they have spent so much time with their kids & watching Home and Away that they have no idea how to act like a civilized adult. 

I freaking hate it... Hate it when people do these things like what you described... But there isn't much we can do  

So. Frustrating.


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