# Any Atheistic (LaVeyan) Satanists Here?



## Katamari

Since I am assuming many people will click this not knowing LaVeyan Satanist is, I will just give a basic summary of it.

LaVeyan Satanists do not actually believe in Satan, at least not as a deity. He is supposed to be a manifestation of "good" sins, like being gay or smoking or sex before marriage, you know, things that make you feel good, but aren't illegal and don't actually hurt anybody. That is what they worship, the idea of sinning for fun. It's also a self-worshiping religion. AKA every human being is a god. Some people say this is narcissistic, but what it's really saying is that everyone is the God of their own life and outside the law, nobody really has the right to tell you how to live your life happily. Satanists do have their rules and such, like obeying the law, not harming anyone, not following the status quo to fit in, etc. Basically, the rule of Satanism is "be you, but don't break the law or hurt anyone"

If you want more details, I really recommend going to churchofsatan.com and doing some research. Even if you don't believe in it, it's really interesting.

I know Satanism is a very underground religion and a lot of people just don't like to come out and speak about it, but I was just suddenly hit with a burst of curiosity and wanted to know if there were any LaVeyans out there with social anxiety because I have personally found sometimes it is difficult to indulge in some of the sins which make you happy and to obey the fifth Satanic Sin because standing out in the crowd to be you can trigger your social anxiety.

But if anyone else is not LaVeyan and just wants to ask some questions or contemplate it, feel free to pop in a comment! I just enjoy talking about Satanism because it terrifies people when it's probably the most accepting "religious" group of people.


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## Red October

Hey, just a garden-variety nonbeliever here; but i'm wondering how you decide which pleasures are sinful if you dont actually believe in a divine set of prohibitions against certain activities?

Does it differ much from more philosophical approaches to pleasure seeking, like hedonism?


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## Tetragammon

I read through the "Satanic Bible" by LaVey in college but it was still way too dogmatic for me. I appreciate some of the ideas but in the end I prefer irreligious hedonism. I do harbor a bit of a fascination with atheistic Satanism though, especially in the sense that they directly and openly oppose Christianity. I do imagine that people with SAD would have trouble standing out in the crowd. I know I do. Online I'm very vocal and passionate about my beliefs, or lack thereof, but in person I will never bring it up and hate when anyone else does because it makes me extremely uncomfortable. 

Just out of curiosity (and I don't mean to derail your thread or anything) have you ever heard of The Satanic Temple? They're completely atheistic as well and have some really excellent social initiatives, mainly fighting for the separation of church and state as well as individual liberty here in the US. I encourage anyone to go read their 7 Fundamental Tenets if you have the time -- they're a hell of a lot more reasonable than the Ten Commandments. TST was recently allowed to give an "invocation" at a Pensacola FL city meeting, which was hilarious -- you can find it on Youtube. And they're planning on bringing "After-School Satan Clubs" to elementary schools in an effort to combat all of the "Good News" Christian clubs and give kids an actual choice. The clubs aren't about worshiping Satan at all, but focus on teaching kids about free inquiry and rationalism. Good stuff.


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## Shredder

> Basically, the rule of Satanism is "Be you, but don't break the law or hurt anyone"


I call this "common sense". Any individual who has the ability to think for themselves can achieve this without any type of doctrine whether it's Christian or Satanist. All the bull**** humanity creates makes for some interesting reading though. I guess we have to do something we our time.


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## EmyMax

I started studying Satanism when I was only 15.
It was a very particular moment of my life, where my school teachers bashed on me for no apparent reason (probably because I was wearing piercings, listening to Marilyn Manson, doing crazy stuff, I dunno) and where Christianity started to seem so dull and dumb to me.
I felt like I didn't belonged to this world. So, one day, I decided to drop off the Christian school I was going to for nearly 4 years, and started digging around the Internet for a "serious" book regarding Satanism, and so I came to "The Satanic Bible", which at first, it scared me a little. But then, when I read the highly positive reviews of the book on Amazon, and saw that it only costed 10 bucks, I said "Yeah, whatever!". And so I started reading it, and immediately something clicked inside of me. And I finally started to see some light. And all the bad thoughts and hatred I had for Christianity, which I always had when I was going in the Christian school, did actually started to make sense. And from there on, it's all history.
I wouldn't call myself a Satanist (as I never performed any ritual or did any other kind of stuff that's written in "The Satanic Bible", or in any other book by Anton LaVey) though, but more of a free-thinker. As, throughout the years, I also read, studied and integrated into my life, many different books of various different topics, ranging from metaphysics to spirituality, to Yoga, Meditation and to Scientology, and from psychology to medicine and so on.
Needless to say that I have actually learned a lot. And if it wasn't for all the stuff I read and studied, I wouldn't had probably be here, today, at this time of the year. 
But, anyway. If you wanna talk about some LaVeyan Satanism topics, feel free to hit me up.


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## EmyMax

Tetragammon said:


> Just out of curiosity (and I don't mean to derail your thread or anything) have you ever heard of The Satanic Temple? They're completely atheistic as well and have some really excellent social initiatives, mainly fighting for the separation of church and state as well as individual liberty here in the US. I encourage anyone to go read their 7 Fundamental Tenets if you have the time -- they're a hell of a lot more reasonable than the Ten Commandments. TST was recently allowed to give an "invocation" at a Pensacola FL city meeting, which was hilarious -- you can find it on Youtube. And they're planning on bringing "After-School Satan Clubs" to elementary schools in an effort to combat all of the "Good News" Christian clubs and give kids an actual choice. The clubs aren't about worshiping Satan at all, but focus on teaching kids about free inquiry and rationalism. Good stuff.


Once you bring Heirarchy, tenents, rules and all that non-sense crap inside a philosophy (specially in a VERY elite and individualist philosophy such as Satanism), it's no longer a philosophy. But just another cult.....another way to make money.
You don't have to join the Church Of Satan or The Satanic Temple to be identified as a Satanist, nor you need a sporting-red plastic membership card. 
You just have to live your life according to what you learned and that's all.
Plus, in a age where the Internet is full of information and resources, anyone who wants to learn more about a specific subject can find ANYTHING they want, from complete books to articles, without necessarily having to be part of an organization, or having an actual organization proselitizing and promoting their stuff, down in schools or people houses.
Plus, what's with the "After-School-Clubs"? Sounds so familiar to "proselitism" to me. And proselitism, at least in LaVeyan Satanism, has always been a big NO-NO.
What they're trying to achieve with that initiative? What they're hoping to change? 
I highly doubt it will ever change people minds on the all "Satan" stuff. Satanism will always remain the most feared religion of all. There's no way to change that ever. And it will always be plagued with misconceptions and hyper-criticism from opponent religious groups, regardless of the status and politeness of an organization.
Good luck to them. But I don't see that move as a great way to promote Satanism at all.


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## Tetragammon

EmyMax said:


> Plus, what's with the "After-School-Clubs"? Sounds so familiar to "proselitism" to me. And proselitism, at least in LaVeyan Satanism, has always been a big NO-NO.
> What they're trying to achieve with that initiative? What they're hoping to change?


They're trying to change the rampant spread of "Good News" i.e. Christian clubs in our public schools. In the opinion of myself and lots of other people, religion has NO PLACE anywhere outside of churches/mosques/temples/etc. The fact is that Christian groups are actively preaching to susceptible children in the public domain and I don't think that's acceptable -- do you?? Like I said, there's supposedly no proselytizing to it at all -- they leave that to the clubs they're actively trying to get *removed* from public schools. The After-school Satan clubs are supposedly all about teaching free thought and rationalism, giving kids the "tools" to form their own beliefs instead of getting sucked into those of others.

To my mind, the main problem with atheism in general is that it's not organized at all. I mean sure there may be some "atheist organizations" but they can't really get things done -- they can't combat religion because they're not on the same ground. That's where Satanism comes in, all very tongue-in-cheek of course -- they can CLAIM to be a religion and fight for "equality" while subtly mocking Christianity and other major religions. They're promoting "Satan Clubs" just to get the Christians to pull out of public schools altogether.

FYI I'm not a member -- I don't have a "card" or whatever else. I'm supremely skeptical of any "organization" that has "hierarchy, tenets, rules and all that non-sense crap" just like you are. But I do support their initiatives, at least in theory. We've got to fight against the spread of Christian BS in the public domain somehow.


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## Katamari

Yes, in a philosophical sense, hedoism is the same as Satanism. I think what really makes the two of them different other than the teasing image of Satan is that Satanism really tries to push people more forcefully towards their happiness and individualism.
For example, hedoism really just says (from what I see, correct me if I am wrong) "do whatever makes you happy", but Satanism will tell you to do things like "avoid herd conformity so you think for yourself", where hedoism doesn't really do that.
But yeah, when you get down to the basic principles and the purpose behind each belief, they are one and the same.


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## Katamari

Shredder said:


> I call this "common sense". Any individual who has the ability to think for themselves can achieve this without any type of doctrine whether it's Christian or Satanist. All the bull**** humanity creates makes for some interesting reading though. I guess we have to do something we our time.


I do agree, LeVayan Satanism is really based in common sense, but I feel it can separate itself from normal atheism because not all atheists (or all religious people) have common sense, but Satanism also has really specific rules that people can debate if it is common sense or not. For example, Satanism is heavily against herd conformity.
There isn't really much doctrine behind Satanism, just logic. But also, since the Satanic church can call themselves a religion despite being based in atheism and common sense, it makes it much easier for an organized group of people to rise up against religious inequality in places such as the government and public venues such as schools.


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## Shredder

Katamari said:


> There isn't really much doctrine behind Satanism, just logic.


Logic at work >>> 









Actually who cares about logic when I could be a part of this action... where do I sign up?? >


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## Katamari

thedevilsblood said:


> I have the book somewhere but haven't read it yet. I had read the 11 rules and as you said thought it was mostly based on common sense. But i see some paradox about claiming to be part of a movement, when that philosophy is clearly very individualistic.


Yeah, I kinda understand what you mean by that. But couldn't you argue that point for any religion? For example, everyone views Bible excerpts and rules in their own different and unique ways depending on what they as in individual deem the moral high ground. Like, some people say God loves gay people and some say god hates gay people, both using real excerpts from the Bible. Does that mean that because every individual views it differently, it cannot be a movement or real group?

One thing every Satanist undeniably believes, though, is in advocating for a separation of church and state and not letting people have more power because of their religion. THAT is where Satanists act as one group with the same beliefs. We all work together to ensure one religion is not deemed to be morally or legally more important than another.


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## Katamari

Shredder said:


> Logic at work >>>
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> Actually who cares about logic when I could be a part of this action... where do I sign up?? >


Hahaha, you do know those pictures are just for show, right? It's to scare away Catholics and Christians and make them fear us. No LaVeyan Satanist actually does stuff like that in all seriousness.


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## doe deer

i've read about it but i feel like it's just an excuse to sound edgy (i hate that word but it does fit here) while having the same values as most other non religious people. don't really see why does it have to be a form of satanism except those ridiculous ceremonies pictured above lmao anton was a smart man, got himself a lot of ladies :lol anyway why would you do any of that just to scare christians? don't you have anything better to do? pretty pointless in my opinion. i see how this would be popular for people in their teens but being an adult and considering yourself a part of this seems immature.
also, advocating for the separation of church and state is just common sense that is held by many people.


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## iAmCodeMonkey

I have the authorized autobiography of Anton LaVey: https://www.amazon.ca/Secret-Life-Satanist-Authorized-Biography/dp/0922915121

I need to read it more often. Quotes from the Satanic Bible are fun to troll people with.

Hence my status. >


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## ljubo

Satanism is not good religion. It has bad influence on people.


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## doe deer

lol


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## ljubo

Drugs, orgy, human sacrifices etc.


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## doe deer




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## Barakiel

Supposedly LaVey described his version of Satanism as "just Ayn Rand's philosophy with ceremony and ritual added" (or it's been described by others as such, dunno which). If that's the case, then I would imagine that LaVeyan Satanism isn't all that different from the Republican party...


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## Overdrive

Katamari said:


> LaVeyan Satanists do not actually believe in Satan


That makes a lot of sense :lol.


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## iAmCodeMonkey

ljubo said:


> Satanism is not good religion. It has bad influence on people.


So does Islamic Extremism. :wink2:


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## discoveryother

hm i hadn't heard much about it before. but it seems to encapsulate a bunch of my beliefs. if there was a LaVeyan church here, i would love to be a part of it.


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## ljubo

[Quran 2:208] O you who believe, you shall embrace total submission; do not follow the steps of Satan, for he is your most ardent enemy.


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## Tetragammon

ljubo said:


> Satanism is not good religion. It has bad influence on people.


Yeah, because aspiring to rationalism and free thought is so terrible for one's health! :roll:

The truth is that Satanism isn't a "religion" at all -- it's an anti-religion. The vast majority of Satanists don't literally believe in or worship an entity called "Satan" -- he's just the ultimate symbol of individualism and free thought. Which the Abrahamic religions do everything they can to destroy. Because if believers actually learned to think for themselves and ask critical questions about their beliefs, the whole thing would fall apart.



ljubo said:


> [Quran 2:208] O you who believe, you shall embrace total submission; do not follow the steps of Satan, for he is your most ardent enemy.


This is so ironic because it's EXACTLY what true religions want for all people -- to be totally submissive. Don't think for yourself at all. Don't question your beliefs or leaders. Because that way they gain more power, influence and money, while riding on the backs of their slaves. Wake up, dude: YOUR religion is the bad influence here.


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## Katamari

Barakiel said:


> Supposedly LaVey described his version of Satanism as "just Ayn Rand's philosophy with ceremony and ritual added" (or it's been described by others as such, dunno which). If that's the case, then I would imagine that LaVeyan Satanism isn't all that different from the Republican party...


"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." - Ayn Rand

That sounds like the Republican party to you?
The "reason as his only absolute" sounds like the polar opposite of how republican politicians think.


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## Katamari

ljubo said:


> Drugs, orgy, human sacrifices etc.


You know, except for the fact that not all Satanists do drugs and it is neither promoted or shamed by the Satanic church, that orgies are just as common among Satanists as for anyone else because it's neither promoted or shamed by the Satanic church, and human sacrifice would probs be the easiest way to get kicked out of the Satanic church because a vital part of the movement is to not harm anyone as you do these things that make you happy.

AKA, your entire argument is invalid here. 
For devil worshippers, yeah, this may be a good argument. But not for LaVeyanism.


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## novalax

Didn't LaVey describe his brand of Satanism as akin to "I-theism"? If that is the case, then it sounds like an individualist dream, which I would support. It's almost a shame I'm beholden to christianity, but alas I am.

Also, it was James R. Lewis who said it is "a blend of Epicureanism and Ayn Rand's philosophy, flavored with a pinch of ritual magic." again, all of that sounds pretty good. Although, I flirt with objectivism (Rand's philosophy), I wouldn't call myself one.


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## bedeviled1

Isn't that why satan was kicked out if heaven. I...Me...Mine...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheInvisibleHand

God is great.


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## Blag

Katamari said:


> Basically, the rule of Satanism is "be you, but don't break the law or hurt anyone"


Are you talking about Satanism in general or this particular type of Satanism called LaVeyan Satanism? (Some guy's name?)


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## Blag

Katamari said:


> AKA every human being is a god. Some people say this is narcissistic, but what it's really saying is that everyone is the God of their own life and outside the law, nobody really has the right to tell you how to live your life happily. Satanists do have their rules and such, like obeying the law, not harming anyone, not following the status quo to fit in, etc. Basically, the rule of Satanism is "be you, but don't break the law or hurt anyone"


May apologize beforehand for what some people may think is "preaching". But, i think this is very interesting, and bringing similar religions/belief systems is important.

So, i always thought satanists were those who sacrificed goats and humans, drank goat blood instead of water and human blood instead of wine and swam in alcohol and drugs. But when i was reading OP's post, especially this paragraph, its so different from what i thought about satanism i think that that you're borderline lying. Yeah i understand, its only "LeVeyan Satanism" etc. etc.

So, now to the point, i want to mention one very old (and debatably oldest) belief system which i'm from, although its a slightly tweaked, strict and supernatural than what you've mentioned above, that is Jainism. You know what, i'll show you how:



Katamari said:


> AKA every human being is a god.


Jainism, against the mono and polytheistic religions of its time, established that humans, through meditation, abstinence and a **** load of self discipline which would put "God" to shame, can become real gods themselves. Its based on the premise that the omnipotent and omniscient potential of becoming god is hidden in all life forms individually on several different levels. So, humans in their normal form also are gods, but with limited power.



Katamari said:


> Satanists do have their rules and such, like obeying the law, not harming anyone, not following the status quo to fit in, etc.


When it comes to religion-enforced rules, jainism is very free, and this has been quoted as one of the main reasons why its unpopular compared to its close but corrupted brother Buddhism. Although, jains often follow status quo to fit in because festivals and ceremonies were almost compulsory to exist socially before the enlightenment age.

Against to contrary belief and knowledge, Buddhism branched out of Jainism, so those who know buddhism, consider Jainism as buddhism with less buddhas and supernatural stuff and mantras and more of the rational stuff, and a bigger hunger for knowledge.



Katamari said:


> He is supposed to be a manifestation of "good" sins, like being gay or smoking or sex before marriage, you know, things that make you feel good, but aren't illegal and don't actually hurt anybody. That is what they worship, the idea of sinning for fun.


Anyway, your point about drugs and sinning for fun.
First of all, indulging in drugs and alcohol is not sinning, you're the boss of your own body, mind and soul, do whatever the **** you wanna do with yourself. Sinning only occurs when it involves others, imo, like hurting, harming, killing, destroying, disturbing, etc.
Jainism has a different take on this, and its the only difference i can find between what you wrote and what basic Jainism believes in. Jainism says that stuff like that causes disturbance to others (harms others), takes you further from base reality and yourself. So, usually jains abstain from narcotics (if used for pleasure).

Personally, i dont do drugs and alcohol because i fear that i'll become homicidal and borderline sexual offender when im under the influence, my track record isn't clean but fortunately its anonymous, and i do not wish to lose a decade of containment because of 1 trip or 1 drunken night. I accept to the rest although I do not accept your definition of sinning >


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## Mur

I'm not a Satanist at all but I would like to ask you a question, do you consider The Satanic Temple folks to be "real Satanists" or are they a bunch of pretenders?


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## SorryForMyEnglish

From what I know, they claim not to believe in spiritual world or whatever spiritual creatures. It may be just out of my ignorance, but I wonder why they practice magic then and what magic is for them.


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## mezzoforte

I think there is a common misconception that LaVeyan Satanists literally worship Satan, but that isn't accurate. They're atheists. They don't believe in any supernatural beings. Rituals are a form of therapy and catharsis, rather than hocus pocus magic.

I agree with most of the fundamental beliefs of Satanism. But I don't agree with the morality of "eye for an eye."


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## iAmCodeMonkey

No, but I might as well be at this point.


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## Persephone The Dread

No I like Satanic imagery and occultism, but I'm not interested in being part of a select group like that. I generally find organised religions cringe (the more organised, the more cringe.) However when it comes to Satanic groups I also probably prefer the The Satanic Temple to the Church of Satan (LaVeyan) philosophically, but I don't like that they're tax exempt so that's a large minus imo. 

But yeah so this is on the basis that - and this is with superficial knowledge - The Church of Satan is more Randian and focused on social Darwinism, and The Satanic Temple is more about protecting the 'other,' challenging Christian hegemony in politics, reciprocal altruism and intellectual curiosity.

But like I say large scale organised religions have a lot of problems. I don't agree with either of those groups 100% either.

Also this thread is ooold.


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