# PLEASE help me STOP



## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

I get into arguments with people on online forums. I can't give up the petty bickering. Some of the things are not even related to me but the narrow-minded, short-sighted things some people say just piss me off. 

This makes me really unpopular in forums and I want to cool off. But I can't. I keep seeing narrow-mindedness all around and I was to scream at them "YOU STUPID LOT!". 

I just got banned from a Buddhist forum. They warned me first to back down with my radical views on Buddha statues. I said worshiping a statue was stupid. After the warning I went and started yet another debate with a senior, respected member who was condemning abortion. 

I don't use abusive words as such but I keep generating chaos. Is it wrong to say something is wrong when I think it is wrong. My question is, am I wrong to express myself or is it just them for not being able to listen to a different opinion? Am I suffering from some intolerable condition?


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## cavemanslaststand (Jan 6, 2011)

Perhaps remind yourself that while debate keeps discussions healthy, you are not really paid to post, so ease up and don't be so hard on yourself too.


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

I know the feeling- someone writes something idiotic and naturally you want to engage them in debate over it.
But there is so much ridiculous **** all over the internet- if you get worked up every time someone says something stupid, you will spend every minute annoyed or trying to use logic with a person who doesn't do logic. 
You have to pick your battles!


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## Winterwalk (Apr 11, 2013)

There are also a lot of misunderstandings on internet forums .


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## march_hare (Jan 18, 2006)

Did you actually call them "stupid"? It's not abusive as such, but talking in such a way might make people feel disrespected. Disagreements are fine, but the way you word them can lead to drama...


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## Pam (Feb 14, 2009)

I can get caught up in a little drama sometimes, but it's probably because I'm bored or something. It's not healthy, I know it, so I do try to avoid it.

On the other hand, to answer your question--It is not wrong to express yourself! But you can just do it, and let the chips fall where they may, rather than actually thinking you're going to win any argument or change someone's mind. 

I guess only you know deep inside whether you are genuinely expressing an opinion, or stirring up the drama pot. So you can monitor yourself I'm sure. You sound quite smart. 

I had to laugh at the getting kicked off of a buddhist site. It seems kind of ironic.


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## N2Trouble (Jan 26, 2013)

TheVoid said:


> I don't use abusive words as such but I keep generating chaos. Is it wrong to say something is wrong when I think it is wrong. My question is, am I wrong to express myself or is it just them for not being able to listen to a different opinion? Am I suffering from some intolerable condition?


Constructive debating is a good thing as long as it is done without using personal attacks. Everyone has a right to an opinion and to express that opinion, but it is something different when one uses insults and attacks someone personally. I have been subjected to this countless times on forums and on Facebook and when it happens, I retaliate with as much rudeness and harshness as I have received. Some people are simply trolls and they get a thrill out of insulting others. Those are the ones that I do not mind making angry by throwing ugly insults back. Is this the right thing to do? Probably not, but I can't help myself.

I recently had an ugly argument with my own father, who resorted to personal attacks and "disowning me" after I made an innocent remark he disagreed with. It seems that there are a lot of people, including family, who are closed minded and will stick to their beliefs even when proven wrong. Since they cannot debate with facts, they resort to personal attacks. Etiquette is something that many people do not possess!


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

TheVoid said:


> I just got banned from a Buddhist forum. They warned me first to back down with my radical views on Buddha statues. I said worshiping a statue was stupid.


 Don't say things like that. Be tactful. Say something like "I don't understand why people would worship a statue." Calling people stupid is a sure way to keep getting banned.


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## IcedOver (Feb 26, 2007)

The easy answer is to avoid going to those forums. You'll be surprised when your interest in it wanes after doing that. It looks like you want to pick fights with people, though, and shoot down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Is that right? I'm saying that because from what you said, it appears you wade into a forum that's against what you believe and then cause problems. I wouldn't do that. For instance, I wouldn't go to a forum that had as its sole purpose the adulation of {political figure removed for the sake of being generic} and yell at people. They have a right to their opinion as well. You may call it narrow-mindedness and intolerance, but they would say the same to you. If it's in a forum that welcomes both sides, debate is more appropriate. You appear to be somewhat intolerant, though. You don't want to become an Opinion Nazi.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

scarpia said:


> Don't say things like that. Be tactful. Say something like "I don't understand why people would worship a statue." Calling people stupid is a sure way to keep getting banned.


I didn't say it. I implied it, but not in the diplomatic way you have shown. I was pissed and was not capable of diplomacy.


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## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

I use to have high anxieties when I would reply to a post that for awhile I would just reply and never go back to thread because I didn't want to read their response. It was because I was very confrontational and my replies often come off sounding insulting. I couldn't help it, it was just how I was. I don't do that anymore, I'm more understanding of where others may view things and try to be respectful in my replies. It's just a waste of time trying to argue your point across, because most time you'll never convince them or just give up anyways.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

N2Trouble said:


> Constructive debating is a good thing as long as it is done without using personal attacks.


I almost never use personal attacks or abuse. I'm a well seasoned troll. 

But I challenge some belief systems in a relentless way. My problem is probably that. I look for trouble in forums that have groupies who have been chanting the same mantra to newbies over and over again. I go there on purpose, knowing they would retaliate. I just can't seem to stop. I just want to challenge their views.

Naturally all the vulnerable newbies take the side of the old timers in the forum who have moderator and admin rights and generally well accepted. My voice there only creates chaos. But I have this irresistible desire to tell them to suck it up.


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

People want other people out if they don't follow them or if they are different. State your opinionion and you are kicked out... :roll


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## Marc999 (Mar 25, 2013)

Haha, "Worshiping a statue is stupid"

Would you say that in person? No, likely not. Because you're online, it's much easier for people to be more direct at the risk of being rude or uncourteous. 
If you did say that on a Buddhist forum, can you really blame them for banning you? 
I can't and that's definitely not debating, that's just tossing insults. After all, there have to be consequences to these actions, even online.

Maybe you need to step away from the computer for awhile and go for a hike? That's what I do, works wonders. Too much computer time can make one loopy.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

Marc999 said:


> Haha, "Worshiping a statue is stupid"
> 
> Would you say that in person? No, likely not. Because you're online, it's much easier for people to be more direct at the risk of being rude or uncourteous.
> If you did say that on a Buddhist forum, can you really blame them for banning you?
> ...


Looks like I will have to repeat this a lot more than I anticipated. I did NOT say it. I just implied it.

Whether or not I debate in person shouldn't be so hard to figure out given that we are on SA forums.


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## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Just remember that you don't have to belittle people to get your point across/"win" an argument(if you do that). It's hard to say why you upset and/or annoy people without getting examples of how you express yourself.


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## ToucanSam (Mar 22, 2012)

people often create drama to compensate for a lack of vitality in their life. The next time you get the urge to flame, interpret it as a sign that your mind is trying to get your attention; as in "I'm bored! Take me somewhere more exciting than this."


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

I kind of have the same problem op, so I don't really have any advice. Sometimes I stop myself but usually I don't it's just so easy to type a response online, I think that's partly the problem. You don't really have to ask yourself if its worth it because it takes no time at all and you're not even forced to listen or deal with their response if you don't want to.

Then again you're entitled to disagree with people maybe try to find things you agree with too to balance it out?

Calling people stupid for worshipping statues is probably a bit over the line though yeah maybe find a way to say you don't agree without belittling people's beliefs at the same time. Also the nature of the forum and its purpose is important as well.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

ToucanSam said:


> people often create drama to compensate for a lack of vitality in their life. The next time you get the urge to flame, interpret it as a sign that your mind is trying to get your attention; as in "I'm bored! Take me somewhere more exciting than this."


Yea I think this is it. I have so much built up inside and it is almost impossible to confront people in real life, so an Internet forum is the only place we have to let it all out. It sounds miserable but I think that's the bitter truth. :yes


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Calling people stupid for worshipping statues is probably a bit over the line


I didn't say it.


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## tennislover84 (May 14, 2010)

It's funny. I have the opposite problem. My whole mind is screaming at me not to replying to people, when they disagree with me. I strongly dislike conflict, and I don't want to upset other people. I don't want to "win" arguments either, because it feels like imposing myself on other people. I have to keep telling myself that it's not wrong to write a strongly worded response, as long as it's polite and respectful.

I actually force myself to keep replying on certain subjects, despite my discomfort, because some ideas are too important not to stand up for. I feel like it's cowardly to run away, if I know I have something worthwhile to add, and that it might help somebody to hear me say it.

This probably isn't very helpful to you, so sorry about that. I just thought it was interesting that you're my opposite. 

And worshipping statues is kinda stupid.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

tennislover84 said:


> some ideas are too important not to stand up for.
> 
> And worshipping statues is kinda stupid.


:yes Exactly!

It's not like I said it was stupid out loud. But it pisses me off when forum groupies flock in to approve any BS an old timer says just because s/he happens to be a moderator/admin or self-proclaimed "wise man". I'm probably ranting for nothing but I get the feeling some folks agree with anything someone says not based on what they say but based on who they are. These dynamics are common in small forums.


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## popeet (Dec 8, 2005)

I have a question: Isn't worshipping a statue not so much Buddhism as it is a preexisting cultural or religious practice that later absorbed Buddhism? So in the context of Buddhism itself it makes no sense but in the context of various local cultures/spritual practices it makes sense? 

Otherwise, I've had a simlar problem with forums. It took time for me to mellow out. I express myself emphatically, and debate in real life too. I also think that there are some things too important not to stand up for. But I must do it for me I think, because the majority of people won't get it and don't care. You are right about personality cults/group dynamics. It's not about the ideas. 

I wish I could learn to stop the impulse and intense sense of urgency I feel. It's two things for me: assertive/cathartic/connecting *and* a way of getting hooked or 'attached' to a position, self image and trying to force others to follow my way. In the end I've wasted my breath on people, but it felt unavoidable and compelling (satisfying) in the moment. I'm wondering if it's more of a safety valve behavior than anything else. There are ways and places I can't assert myself because of shame (even if everyone is being ridiculous/don't know what they're talking about) so that pressure gets transferred to areas where I feel solid and strong (e.g. social commentary.)

Btw it is frustrating to have to go up against self proclaimed wise men whom everyone follows when you know you are making sense. It's even worse to get patronized and then hit on by them, lol.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Just try to stay on the topic.
Don't turn anything into a personal attack. The same kind of rules apply here.


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## christacat (Aug 6, 2010)

I have the same problem...if I see someone online slagging off something I like, I just get stuck into them. It's probably because I am bored and lonely .And I feel worse after I do it too. But I have gotten abit better at controlling myself of late, almost did it today but didn't


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

popeet said:


> I have a question: Isn't worshipping a statue not so much Buddhism as it is a preexisting cultural or religious practice that later absorbed Buddhism? So in the context of Buddhism itself it makes no sense but in the context of various local cultures/spritual practices it makes sense?


Yes, according to the original Buddhists texts, the Buddha himself had not encouraged blind faith or inanimate object worshiping. Being too attached to a statue is probably missing the point entirely.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

millenniumman75 said:


> Just try to stay on the topic.


Done.


millenniumman75 said:


> Don't turn anything into a personal attack.


Done.

Official reason for banning? Cause of unrest and chaos in the forums.
Unofficial reason for banning? Their long-term members don't like their views challenged.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

TheVoid said:


> Done.
> 
> Done.
> 
> ...


I don't know about the unofficial reason - that's not always true.


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

I can relate to that a lot. That is one major reason I barely post on any forums because I get into heated debates usually. I try to keep things, "on topic" and without emotion. However, illogical arguments infuriate me especially ignorant ones. People have very, lets say, narrow views of most topics. Without realizing most of anything is connected in various ways to other topics or subjects. I usually support my arguments with different subject matter that corresponds to the underlying points I am making. That usually loses people as they only see the "boxed" idea in which their beliefs/education has taught them and regurgitate facts without understanding the concepts behind them.

With your references to Buddhism, I agree with you 100% I live in a predominantly Asian community where Buddhism is the main religion. However, many people do not understand the concepts behind it and are very materialistic. Most are of Far Eastern Asian or Southern Asian decent, where Buddhism has had a huge influence with Confusion and Taoism. But within Far Eastern culture, "Fortune, Long Life, and Happiness", take precedence so Budai (The Fat Buddha) often becomes a idol to them. He is usually seen with children and a sack of gold/food, handing it out. It was originally intended to show humility and generosity, yet in modern times has been accepted as fortune lol. I have seen and be told by very "devout" Buddhists that rubbing the belly brings good luck lol. So they give offerings. Which I find completely ironic as it gets so far away from the concept of seeking enlightenment through ridding the self of ignorance, desire, and anger, by seeking wealth in the material world.

From my own culture, Japanese often worship Buddha too, or another incarnation of him. I think this idea has been influenced from Christianity coming to Japan in the 1500s since it shows a lot of idolatry and an idea of a new "coming Buddha". They worship Amidabuddha which is like the next incarnation of Buddha to bring a new world of Enlightenment. During the Sengoku Jidai (Age of Country at War) in feudal Japan there were actually sects of Warrior monks who would go on religious crusades in the name of Buddha lol. (Akin to concept of Jihad and Crusade in their respective religious counterparts) which also is totally against the original teachings of Gautama Buddha. Here's a picture of a Sohei: 









And Amidabuddha:









But anyway, Buddhism is usually classified in two main factions:

Mahayana (The Great Vehicle) and Theravada. In the Far Eastern sections, Mahayana has the stronger influence and has incorporated much ideology from Taoism and Shamanism, and in Japan Shintoism. So many gods are also acknowledged as "protectors of Buddha". Many gods (Especially in Japan) are old Shinto Gods, identified with Hindu ones. In the case of Bishamonten, which is the God of War and protector of Budda's sacred temple, is identified with Tamonten, the original Shinto God of War, but is also the Hindu God Vaisrasvana, one of the "Four Heavenly Kings". Similar ideas go further into mythology as well, like the Naga which are identified with Chinese Dragons both in China and Japan. Mahayana Buddhism has a lot of esoteric beliefs and over how many thousand years has splinted into various different sects, such as Pure Land, Nichiren, Shingon, and Zen.

Theravada (Teaching of the Elders) Buddhism is actually closer to the originally concept Gautama Buddha taught. It is mainly prevalent in places like Thailand, India, Cambodia, and Laos.

To get back to your point though, I have gotten in similar arguments with people in contexts of martial arts and spirituality since the influence on many are often changed throughout the course of history. People often have a way of looking at things as concrete, when in fact, everything is inspired by something else. An idea takes hold and assimilates other ideas, cultures, religions to create something new. Often times the origins are forgotten or just overlooked. Like Buddhism emerging from Hindu beliefs. Or Islam from Abrahamic beliefs, Christianity from Judaism, Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and Pagan rituals, and Judaism from ancient Egyptian rights. But all the previous probably originated from earlier systems that have been lost to the sands of time.

Try not feel bad about debating with people. People often get emotionally attached to their beliefs and arguments. Intelligence is often scorned, and knowledge itself is not wisdom. Questioning, is also a main facet to Buddhism ideology, which many believers of Buddhism have forgotten lol. Many already have the answers they seek, just don't ask the right questions.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

millenniumman75 said:


> I don't know about the unofficial reason


Of course you don't. I do.


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## Taney (Apr 4, 2013)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because your opinion doesn't fit into their reality doesn't make them stupid or wrong, and vice versa. If you want them to respect your right to your opinions, you have to be willing to do the same. 

There are a lot of things that I see that I don't agree with, but aggressively confronting people won't make people change their minds. I find that agreeing to disagree about a subject and leaving it alone is usually the best way to go.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

Zyriel I really enjoyed your post. Thanks a lot. I follow the theravadha Thai forest Buddhist tradition with a lot of emphasis on meditation, letting go and releasing.


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## ToucanSam (Mar 22, 2012)

TheVoid said:


> I have so much built up inside and it is almost impossible to confront people in real life, so an Internet forum is the only place we have to let it all out. It sounds miserable but I think that's the bitter truth.





TheVoid said:


> it pisses me off when forum groupies flock in to approve any BS an old timer says just because s/he happens to be a moderator/admin or self-proclaimed "wise man"...These dynamics are common in small forums.


actually, both of those comments are true for most Internet forums, not just SAS. Browse any hobby or sports or political forum - there's lots of touchy tempers and prickly pride out there.

Internet forums are society's safety release valve.


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

ToucanSam said:


> Internet forums are society's safety release valve.


Free therapy I guess


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## riderless (Jul 21, 2013)

ToucanSam said:


> *people often create drama to compensate for a lack of vitality in their life.* The next time you get the urge to flame, interpret it as a sign that your mind is trying to get your attention; as in "I'm bored! Take me somewhere more exciting than this."


 that is so true
now let me take my workplace for instance....................................


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## TheVoid (Nov 2, 2008)

Oh boy, I'm so glad this thread was dug up from the graves because I read Zyriel's reply again and really enjoyed it...

I think the Thai Buddhist tradition is great and helped me find a lot of peace. I have read a lot of anxiety management stuff on the net and offline programs and a lot of things actually concur with what is taught in the Buddhist Thai forest tradition. It has a beautiful way of life - the present moment awareness. Kind of hard to practice at first but the more you practice the better you feel. It is an excellent anxiety controlling tool. It also teaches the acceptance perspective that I have seen a lot of therapists teach now.

Guys, if you have the time, please investigate this great tradition:


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