# Phenibut Experience (2g)



## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Here is my detailed experience with the over-the-counter substance known as Phenibut. I know there is a lot of interest on the forum with Phenibut as a possible SA treatment and I was keen to try it after reading some positive reviews about it.

I won't go into detail about what Phenibut is and how it works on the brain since you can read it about it on Wikipedia, suffice to say it acts on GABA and it's fairly widely available online without prescription as a health supplement in most countries I believe.

I took it yesterday and made some notes. This is my retrospective review based on those notes and my impressions of Phenibut the next morning after taking it.

Background

I have recently begun exploring medication options again for SA as I've relapsed and been going through a bad patch with my SA the last year or so. I'm self-medicating and not seeing a doctor, as I have pretty much tried every medication there is for SA (except Nardil/Parnate) over the last 20 years, and have therefore given up on conventional treatments. I'm self-employed and work from home, and have to post things every day and have frequent deliveries at my home, so I need something to keep me functional and stable.

My level of SA

It's quite severe. Even small things like answering the door to sign for a parcel, or going outside to put the garbage out can be difficult for me. Going to post a letter a short distance, or going to the post office to hand something in, are intensely difficult for me.

Phenibut Brand Tested

Phenibut XT by Serious Nutrition Solutions (SNS). 90 x 500mg capsules (gelatine). Cost £23 (ouch).

The experience
============

Before taking the Phenibut I was feeling really good and have been having an excellent week so far. My SA was not too severe and my other problems (low energy/lethargic, low mood/motivation, manic mood swings) had all gone away. I think this was partly due to my starting exercising and partly due to considerably reducing my daily caffeine intake. So anyway to summarise, I was feeling fine and had no SA when I took the Phenibut. Apart from taking 0.5 Xanax about 24 hours prior, I had not taken any other substances.

My reason yesterday then for taking the Phenibut was partly to see what effects it would have (physical), but was primarily to see how effective it would be for SA if I took myself out of my comfort zone and went into SA-provoking situations. With that in mind, I had planned a day out as it was a really hot sunny day and it seemed a shame to stay indoors with very few days like this left. I had planned to take a long bike ride, partly to enjoy the countryside, and partly to do an outside review of my bike (on camera). I find doing these reviews difficult. Especially speaking into a camera. I have had some requests to do one, so I was wondering if the Phenibut might help make me more talkative for that.

As it turned out, yesterday was quite a busy day for me work-wise. I had a lot of work to do and a whole bunch of stuff that had to be delivered in town at the postal sorting office, before I could begin my excursion and bike review. I ended up not leaving until late afternoon due to the extra workload, around 4pm.

I decided to take the Phenibut early to give it plenty of time work, so I took it at 2pm. At this point I should say, I had done a "baseline" test the day before where I took just one capsule (500mg). I always do a baseline test with any new substance I take as I can assess the strength of it and whether there are likely to be any adverse effects. As it turned out, the baseline test had zero effects, neither good or bad. With this in mind, and after reading reports suggesting higher doses 1-2g are needed, I decided to try the higher end and take 2g (4x500mg capsules) which I took on a fairly empty stomach with a glass of water. I had only eaten a very light (high protein) lunch an hour or so earlier.

So 2 hours or so later after taking the Phenibut, it's now after 4pm, and I'm all ready to leave. I'm not feeling any effects at all at this point strangely and begin thinking Phenibut is yet another waste of money like the Picamilon I had tried (a similar Russian substance, also from the Soviet-era).

I felt quite relaxed doing my postal delivery drop-off and generally quite relaxed cycling around town. I put this down to my generally upbeat mood and confidence level from the last few days, nothing to do with Phenibut. Maybe there was some Placebo effect going on here too, knowing I had taken something new.

I did my excursion and bike review, and didn't find it any easier really. I wasn't any more friendly, talkative or outgoing around people. By 6.00pm I'm feeling really hungry, so I decided to start heading home. At this point I had been cycling for about 2 hours almost non-stop with few brief resting periods and had encountered quite a few people and situations along the way.

So I arrived home a little before 6.30pm and I'm still feeling disappointed about the Phenibut at this point. I eat a candy bar while I'm waiting for my dinner, and then WHAM the Phenibut hit me suddenly and without any warning. Within a few minutes of eating some of the candy bar, I start to feel a definite and very familiar physical sensation.

It felt very much like the prescription med Pregablin I have tried. The effect built up and up over the next 2 hours reaching a plateau phase by around 8-9pm. It felt very much like a moderate to high dose of Pregablin (300mg-450mg). My coordination was slightly effected at times, but only slightly. I felt a slight bit of dizziness and uneasiness/queasy feeling in my stomach after I ate dinner, but it quickly passed away. It seemed, the more I ate food, the stronger the effects of Phenibut were becoming. This is interesting because Pregablin works exactly the same for me. When I take it, I get the same delayed reaction, often 4 or 6 hours later, suddenly upon eating some food, it just kicks in. I don't know if this is unique to my own physiology, or common for Pregablin/Phenibut in general.

The next part of the experience is where it started to get interesting. I was trying to watch something on my PC and having major problems as my computer broke. I tried 3 different computers and had more technical problems with each computer, and was getting more and more desperate to watch my video. I found myself getting more angry and wound up than I normally would. More emotional. Focusing on cognitive tasks became more difficult. I was unable to remember passwords I use regularly, and unable to type properly at times. There was definitely some short-term memory problems.

After an hour or two of struggling I was able to watch my video and then began watching YouTube music videos. I found myself drawn to nostalgic things and feeling a bit sad/depressed, but at the same time slightly euphoric. Then I began feeling horny but not physically aroused. Very weird. Like thoughts were coming about sexual things and mental cravings for stimulation and pleasurable things. This definitely started to feel like a GHB-type experience now (I took GHB extensively in the 90s). By 10pm I was feeling very intoxicated, very much the same as I would feel about 2 or 3 beers. No sign of tiredness, in fact quite the opposite, quite stimulated mentally with deep thoughts. I found my thoughts coming quickly and moving from one thing to another, common to euphoric and intoxicated states.

I should note at this stage, that by around 8pm I was also experiencing an unpleasant side effect. Not a headache as such, but rather an alcohol-type early "hangover" is the only way I can put it. I get the exact same feeling from alcohol which I can no longer tolerate even in relatively small amounts.
The best to describe it is like a dull pain, or sore feeling in the brain. This suggests to me, that Phenibut has a very similar action to alcohol on the brain and is a "dirty" drug, as my Doctor used to put it. A "blunt instrument", so to speak, as far as drugs are concerned. Certainly at 2g doses, for myself anyway.

By around 11:40 I began to feel tired and ready to sleep. I had no trouble sleeping and the dull pain feeling in the head wasn't too bad, but was still there as I drifted off to sleep.

I slept normally, actually fairly well and peacefully with undisturbed sleep and woke up after 7am. Upon waking I felt some slight residual effects from the Phenibut, but only very slight and I felt fine.

Summary:

Phenibut is definitely clinically active and is a million miles away from Picamilon. I would compare it more to alcohol for its effects, but would also place it somewhere between Pregablin and GHB. It's a pity I didn't get to feel the effects in a social setting. I feel it might have some potential in that regard and I'm keen to test it again. Although definitely at a lower dose, maybe 1g next time. 2g was too much for me and I found my emotional state was all over the place. I would say it has some recreational potential for those looking for a euphoria and alcohol-type intoxicated feeling. Although for me its similarity to alcohol is a no no as I wouldn't be able to tolerate doses high enough for the recreational benefits. Is it worth the money? Maybe. I would have to test it further to assess its value with SA. Definitely worth exploring further.

And that concludes my first test of Phenibut. I hope it's been useful and interesting! I will do a second test shortly at 1g and test it out in a social setting next time by timing the dose better. I'd welcome your comments and experiences with Phenibut.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

*Word of caution*

Due to the way this substance made me feel, particularly the sudden sadness and slightly depressed state (even thinking about suicidal things, although not thinking about actually committing suicide) I would advise caution to anyone thinking of taking Phenibut if you're inclined to have suicidal thoughts or have depression. I'm not normally given to sudden bouts of sadness/depression and suicidal thoughts and given that I felt very positive and fine before taking Phenibut, this for me is an alarm bell that this substance may effect people profoundly on an emotional level (and for the worse) possibly. Of course, this may just be my own experience and not typical of Phenibut (comments?). Just be careful at higher doses.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

*Follow-up*

It seems my "morning after" assessment upon waking was a bit premature as I wrote the review in bed this morning before getting up.

Upon getting up, I felt quite unwell. Physically weak, unsteady on my feet a little and quite "shaky" inside. My eyes were also very bloodshot and sensitive to light. This to me is all the familiar morning-after symptoms I would get from heavy alcohol use and alcohol binges. It maybe reinforces what I was saying earlier, about the action of Phenibut being very similar to alcohol.

That said, I also feel slightly more talkative and social, even despite feeling shaky. I used to feel the same after alcohol the next day too.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Nice write up.

In my year of once a week Phenibut use i've never had it have the effect you experienced at one point of feeling very depressed/sad. It's always been quite the opposite and always made me feel better than if I hadn't taken it.

I know quite a few people report getting a hangover from it but I've never experienced one.

I know Phenibut does effect people differently though.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> Nice write up.
> 
> In my year of once a week Phenibut use i've never had it have the effect you experienced at one point of feeling very depressed/sad. It's always been quite the opposite and always made me feel better than if I hadn't taken it.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I'm wondering if the Xanax might of had something to do my emotional state worsening on the Phenibut briefly. It was more than a "passing moment" though. I actually felt like a sinking feeling in my stomach twinges of deep emotional sadness and despair that almost made me feel like crying (extremely rare for me). I was thinking about suicide for maybe 10-15 minutes. The trigger for this was listening the song "Stay Another Day" by East 17 which I discovered was written by one of the band members about his brother who committed a planned suicide. OK so that is a sad thing and anyone would get sad by it, but I think the way it affected me was more emotionally than it normally would and I began to internalise it and start thinking, maybe I'd be better off doing suicide too. Maybe I'm overreacting a bit though.

I have just noticed that Xanax can cause suicidal tendencies (rarely) in some people. Since I took the Xanax less than 24 hours before, it was probably still in my system. Will have to see if it happens again next time I take Xanax.

I'd very be interested to know if you ever experienced any "delayed onset" in the effects like I mentioned, several hours between taking it and getting any effects?


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

I wouldn't think there should be any issue with taking 0.5mg of Xanax 24 hours before. 

However, I know Phenibut can trigger a wider range of emotions than you may be used to. I've had one experience (at my sisters wedding) where due to the high emotions of the event it triggered a really really low period lasting half the day. I've never had the huge low again since, but I am aware that I become far more emotional on it, and it can often set off tears in my eyes much more easily when on it (thankfully tears of euphoric joy 99% of the time! It was the same with GHB.)

As for delayed onset, that's standard for Phenibut. I usually take it at 7am and don't expect to feel the peak/plateau until the afternoon. There's always at least a couple of hours before feeling anything. Sometimes I feel it the strongest up to 10 hours after i've taken it.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> I wouldn't think there should be any issue with taking 0.5mg of Xanax 24 hours before.
> 
> However, I know Phenibut can trigger a wider range of emotions than you may be used to. I've had one experience (at my sisters wedding) where due to the high emotions of the event it triggered a really really low period lasting half the day. I've never had the huge low again since, but I am aware that I become far more emotional on it, and it can often set off tears in my eyes much more easily when on it (thankfully tears of euphoric joy 99% of the time! It was the same with GHB.)
> 
> As for delayed onset, that's standard for Phenibut. I usually take it at 7am and don't expect to feel the peak/plateau until the afternoon. There's always at least a couple of hours before feeling anything. Sometimes I feel it the strongest up to 10 hours after i've taken it.


Woah that's very interesting, thanks. It seems then I was just experiencing a heightened emotional state trigged by listening to that song over and over most likely!

It's interesting what you say about the bringing emotions to the forefront etc, makes you wonder if this drug has some therapeutic value eh? Could it be useful for relationships too to get people to open up more. SA I find tends to make me blunt/cold emotionally with people and less able to express my feelings with partners in the past.

I hear what you're saying about GHB I remember the same emotional lifting and feeling more profound and happy emotional state on it.

Very interested to experiment further at lower doses, and relieved to hear the delayed onset thing is not just me! I was beginning to think there is something medically wrong with me in that regard.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Indeed, I would say it does have therapeutic value.

Likewise due to my SA I'm a very cold/blunt person from the outside, and Phenibut helps me change that.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> Indeed, I would say it does have therapeutic value.
> 
> Likewise due to my SA I'm a very cold/blunt person from the outside, and Phenibut helps me change that.


Oh one more thing I wanted to ask..do you ever feel the sore head/slight headachey/hangover type feeling while you're experiencing the full effects of the Phenibut at higher doses?


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

I can occasionally get a slight sore head when at it's peak, but nothing I'd call a hangover. A couple of paracetamol fixes it.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

Very interesting report, I like such being-in-another-person's-skin kind. I noticed the same things that often surprise me in other phenibut's experiences here (is that due to deferences between our sold-as-med russian phenibut and your supplements, don't know). Being a very experienced and long-term phenibut user, I can still feel as less as 250 mg (1 standard tablet). Doses like 1-2 g daily are high for me, despite the notorious tolerance developing to the drug. And I feel the effect within 20-30 min, without this often mentioned delay.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

broflovski said:


> Very interesting report, I like such being-in-another-person's-skin kind. I noticed the same things that often surprise me in other phenibut's experiences here (is that due to deferences between our sold-as-med russian phenibut and your supplements, don't know). Being a very experienced and long-term phenibut user, I can still feel as less as 250 mg (1 standard tablet). Doses like 1-2 g daily are high for me, despite the notorious tolerance developing to the drug. And I feel the effect within 20-30 min, without this often mentioned delay.


Interesting broflovski. I guess that could be as you say, to do with the different production methods and because it's sold as a health supplement and not standardised or licensed etc..whereas in Russia it has a history as proper medicine?


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

I wouldn't think so, as Baclofen is 'proper' medicine and it has the same effects of a slow onset and long duration as it analogue Phenibut on me.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> I wouldn't think so, as Baclofen is 'proper' medicine and it has the same effects of a slow onset and long duration as it analogue Phenibut on me.


I also don't believe very much that 'properness' is the matter. Probably it's more my individual reaction. But still want to mention that baclofen is not resemble phenibut very much. That single chlorine atom makes the difference, converting subtle nootropic phenibut to potent muscle relaxant baclofen.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

broflovski said:


> I also don't believe very much that 'properness' is the matter. Probably it's more my individual reaction. But still want to mention that baclofen is not resemble phenibut very much. That single chlorine atom makes the difference, converting subtle nootropic phenibut to potent muscle relaxant baclofen.


I have on my desk a bottle of Baclofen (100 x 10mg) which arrived this morning. I'm interested to see how this compares to Phenibut and Pregablin! I'm not taking it today though and want to have a wash out before I try it.

What I am trying today though is Phenibut again (1g) I have taken it just 2 hours ago and will do another report shortly.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

broflovski said:


> I also don't believe very much that 'properness' is the matter. Probably it's more my individual reaction. But still want to mention that baclofen is not resemble phenibut very much. That single chlorine atom makes the difference, converting subtle nootropic phenibut to potent muscle relaxant baclofen.


I can't feel any difference in effects between the 2. They are completely interchangeable for me.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> I can't feel any difference in effects between the 2. They are completely interchangeable for me.


Ok, it might be my prejudice. I've already talked about it (that baclofen background), may be interesting.


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## brown324 (Oct 1, 2011)

First post here, I hope to have something to contribute to this disscussion. I am currently taking 1,500 mg of phenibut daily for my SA and I personally have found it to be the best substance I have ever used for SA. I have taken ssri's, tricyclics, beta blockers and all of the traditional herbal remedies, but notably I have not ever used benzo's as I have a history of drug abuse, this has not been an option for me. 

I do however take hypnotic sleep aids, zolpidem, eszopiclone and zaleplon. I have found phenibut to help relieve anxiety and make me pro social comparable to that of hypnotic and alcohol use. I have an appointment in 2 weeks with a p doc that will prescribe baclofen, I hope this medication will have pro social results for me, and I will report back when I have the chance to start the drug. 

There is some fantastic information out there about the use of GABA B agonists for anxiety treatment, especially when comorbid with substance abuse or alcoholism. Based on my positive experience with phenibut, I think more people with SA and GAD deserve to learn about the possible benefits of GABA B agonists.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

brown324 said:


> First post here, I hope to have something to contribute to this disscussion. I am currently taking 1,500 mg of phenibut daily for my SA and I personally have found it to be the best substance I have ever used for SA. I have taken ssri's, tricyclics, beta blockers and all of the traditional herbal remedies, but notably I have not ever used benzo's as I have a history of drug abuse, this has not been an option for me.
> 
> I do however take hypnotic sleep aids, zolpidem, eszopiclone and zaleplon. I have found phenibut to help relieve anxiety and make me pro social comparable to that of hypnotic and alcohol use. I have an appointment in 2 weeks with a p doc that will prescribe baclofen, I hope this medication will have pro social results for me, and I will report back when I have the chance to start the drug.
> 
> There is some fantastic information out there about the use of GABA B agonists for anxiety treatment, especially when comorbid with substance abuse or alcoholism. Based on my positive experience with phenibut, I think more people with SA and GAD deserve to learn about the possible benefits of GABA B agonists.


Great first post and welcome to the forum. It's very interesting and encouraging to hear your positive review of Phenibut as a treatment for SA. As you can see from my first test I have limited experience still and I'm eager to experiment further so your post is very encouraging. The 1.5g dose you mentioned is interesting because I took 1g yesterday which had little to no effect at all oddly, while 2g had the intense effects I described, so perhaps 1.5g is a good dose for me try next as it works so well for you.

I was interested to see you're getting Baclofen on prescription too. I have just got a load of this (off-prescription) which I'm planning to try shortly. I'm looking forward to hearing your experiences and comparing notes with you. I'm wondering why you're considering taking it tho instead of just sticking with your Phenibut? Is it because you're planning to cycle them to reduce tolerance risk, cost factor maybe? I was wondering about cross tolerance between different GABA-B substances..I think rapid tolerance risk is the only draw back with these types of meds so perhaps they should be used either sparingly like benzos, or cycled, 1-2 weeks on, 1-2 weeks off etc.

It is a good line of discussion I think as these are effective treatment alternatives to benzos as you say, particularly where there is a history of drug addiction/alcoholism.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

*1g test yesterday had zero effects worth mentioning*

Yesterday I did a second test of Phenibut at 1g dose this time which I took at 11am and I went outside for a long bike ride again later in the afternoon, around 4pm. I waited a long time for the Phenibut to work and ate a light snack before leaving, but oddly it had zero effect at all. At that point, I took 25mg Stablon and 0.5 Etizolam as my mood was a bit low yesterday and I was feeling a bit reluctant to go out but wanted to give myself a push as I was reluctant to stay indoors..You know that "want to go/can't go" frustrating limbo feeling!

I know it was probably foolish and bad idea to mix up meds like that and a waste of good Stablon too. I wanted to wash out my system and test each drug separately, but for some reason I just downed them yesterday out of desperation. That may have effected the Phenibut and prevented it working, but I doubt it. Comments?

So this isn't a proper review as such. I felt absolutely nothing to report really. Nothing like any of the effects experienced the first time, not even a hint of the physical "Pregablin-like" onset feeling.

Maybe the dose was just too low and 1.5g as I posted earlier will be the sweet spot for me.


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## brown324 (Oct 1, 2011)

DK3- gaba B agonism does not work for everyone, although it does have a very high rate of success among those who have tried it. To give an honest shot at it I think you need to try to be medication free for about 12 hours prior, and then take a 1.5 g dose, wait about an hour and then eat something, then simply put yourself out there and resist the urge to take any other meds that may affect the experience and see how you feel. 

The baclofen route is much safer and controled. Basically phenibut and baclofen both act as a gaba B agonist, but baclofen being a prescription med has strict quality controls on the amount and quality of substance being ingested. 

Baclofen is also touted as not having the tolerance or dependence issues of phenibut, making baclofen a viable daily treatment without worrying about extreme tolerence resulting in rapid titration. 

On another note, there is a forum called -my way out- that is for recovering alcoholics. Dr. oliver ameisen discovered about 7 years ago that baclofen has the ability to "cure" alcoholism as well as other drug dependency issues by stoping cravings. While this treatment is still gaining momentum and is not well known yet, it has shown very promising results. A large number of people with dependency issues also have comorbid anxiety disorders, and the underlying anxiety is often the actual cause of binge drinking and drug abuse. There are some posts on this forum dedicated to the anxiolitic effects that baclofen has for these people. There are many testaments that proclaim that baclofen has not only cured dependency issues but has also cured long term debilitating anxiety for a large number of people.

Baclofen needs to be titrated up properly to be effective and safe. You should start small like 5 mg 2 times per day, then every 3-5 days increase the dosage by 10 mg, and you can continue to go up until the positive effects are achieved. Many people with dependency issues actually end up at 300+ mg per day before they achieve the results they are looking for, although my understanding is that it takes much less than this for anxiety relief, somewhere in the 50- 90 mg per day range.

As I said before I will definitly give an honest review based on my own experiences once I start the medication.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

brown324 said:


> DK3- gaba B agonism does not work for everyone, although it does have a very high rate of success among those who have tried it. To give an honest shot at it I think you need to try to be medication free for about 12 hours prior, and then take a 1.5 g dose, wait about an hour and then eat something, then simply put yourself out there and resist the urge to take any other meds that may affect the experience and see how you feel.
> 
> The baclofen route is much safer and controled. Basically phenibut and baclofen both act as a gaba B agonist, but baclofen being a prescription med has strict quality controls on the amount and quality of substance being ingested.
> 
> ...


Very useful and informative response, many thanks for that. I must say, over the last few days I have been thinking very much along the same lines, i.e. that Phenibut may not be a good choice as a daily treatment and wondering about the safety side of it because it doesn't seem to have undergone ANY clinical trials as far as I can tell, in the West at least. And as you say, you have no idea what you're getting in supplements, how it's made and the standards of purity etc. It's like rolling the dice a bit I feel. It might be perfectly safe, it might not if you use it long term. That said, it probably is still a useful substance for occasional use in some situations or treatment strategy.

What you say about Baclofen being a good safer alternative makes a lot of sense then and the other contributors to this thread have experienced it and say it's the same more or less. I have just got 100 pills of Baclofen so will begin testing it soon I think.

Coming back to the issue of daily use and tolerance, what's your thoughts or reading on that? Do you think dose could escalate quickly if it's used continually? That does seem to be a common feature of GABA acting substances. Perhaps cycling as I said could reduce that risk..maybe find the ideal cycle, like 3 days on, 2 days off.. or 2 weeks on, 1 week on low maintenance dose. This is probably where being under a Dr's care would be useful as he will know the best regime most likely.

I'm also wondering about any possible issues or interactions with taking Baclofen concurrently with an anti-depressant like Stablon or St John's Wort maybe. In theory from what I understand, it shouldn't pose any interaction issues or reduce the effectiveness of Baclofen? Alcohol would be one to watch though due to potentiation.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

I've been taking baclofen both therapeutically and recreationaly for some time, and gave it up. I vote for phenibut. It's approved anxiolytic, nootropic, not only GABA-B, but indirect GABA-A activator, subtle dopaminergic and it reduces anxiogenic action of phenethylamine. I've found its action much more stable than baclofen, and side effects more benign. Baclofen is nothing but muscle relaxant officially (and cheap intoxicant for russian teens). And btw, tolerance is much worse for baclofen.
Btw my findings about baclofen (as the whole thread) may be interesting.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

broflovski said:


> I've been taking baclofen both therapeutically and recreationaly for some time, and gave it up. I vote for phenibut. It's approved anxiolytic, nootropic, not only GABA-B, but indirect GABA-A activator, subtle dopaminergic and it reduces anxiogenic action of phenethylamine. I've found its action much more stable than baclofen, and side effects more benign. Baclofen is nothing but muscle relaxant officially (and cheap intoxicant for russian teens). And btw, tolerance is much worse for baclofen.
> Btw my findings about baclofen (as the whole thread) may be interesting.


Broflovski you're probably the best person to ask then.. just how safe is phenibut?...what kind of clinical trials has it undergone in Russia post-Soviet era? Is it licensed currently in Russia as a pharma med?

Also I know you're very knowledgeable about the chemistry side of things.. do you think there is any danger in purity or quality between different OTC Phenibut? I note that most of it seems to be manufactured (or at least sold) from the States. Would it be wise to stick to a known safe brand perhaps? I'm probably over worrying a little, but if you're thinking about taking something long term which is not licensed or regulated over here, I think you need to consider these issues eh.


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## GSH (Jul 16, 2009)

broflovski said:


> I vote for phenibut.


I started taking phenibut occasionally a few weeks ago after reading your reviews on it. Its probably the best thing that ive taken for SA, generalized anxiety and depression. I have a cabinet full of AMP, AntiDe, Benzos and other supplements and phenibut beats these hands down when taken sensibly. 500 mg is the perfect amount for me. Thanks man


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

Meh, Phenibut, makes me feel like puking everytime I think about it. Horrible experience with it.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

phenibut works very well especially for being legal an cheap..havent noticed any side effects from it except for tiredness...

phenibut does not make me pro-social at all really...Ghb is the only thing that makes me pro-social and boosts my energy while relieving my anxiety..its literally the full treatment almost except that it only lasts 2-3 hours tops.. 

i wish phenibut acted as a pro-social drug for me but it doesnt...


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

GSH said:


> I started taking phenibut occasionally a few weeks ago after reading your reviews on it. Its probably the best thing that ive taken for SA, generalized anxiety and depression. I have a cabinet full of AMP, AntiDe, Benzos and other supplements and phenibut beats these hands down when taken sensibly. 500 mg is the perfect amount for me. Thanks man


Glad for you, some russian inventions surprisingly work Keep in mind the possible tolerance. But for me 750 mg of phenibut every day work well (in 5-6 day row, then the same long break).


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

barry1685 said:


> Meh, Phenibut, makes me feel like puking everytime I think about it. Horrible experience with it.


I feel nauseous on high doses sometimes, but nothing serious (the thing that makes me feel like you feel about phenibut is baclofen).


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

DK3 said:


> Broflovski you're probably the best person to ask then.. just how safe is phenibut?...what kind of clinical trials has it undergone in Russia post-Soviet era? Is it licensed currently in Russia as a pharma med?
> 
> Also I know you're very knowledgeable about the chemistry side of things.. do you think there is any danger in purity or quality between different OTC Phenibut? I note that most of it seems to be manufactured (or at least sold) from the States. Would it be wise to stick to a known safe brand perhaps? I'm probably over worrying a little, but if you're thinking about taking something long term which is not licensed or regulated over here, I think you need to consider these issues eh.


Have you read this. I'll try to find clinical trials report, thousands them I've always been under impression that it is highly clinically researched in this country. It is licensed in some sense, it's a prescription drug here. Have no idea on purity of American OTC variations of phenibut. You're better to search for reports online, to compare brands.


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## GSH (Jul 16, 2009)

broflovski said:


> Glad for you, some russian inventions surprisingly work Keep in mind the possible tolerance. But for me 750 mg of phenibut every day work well (in 5-6 day row, then the same long break).


It seems to stay in my system around 2 days. I think I could get by with taking it every other day and then taking Saturday and Sunday off.
You taking SNS or Primaforce?


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

GSH said:


> It seems to stay in my system around 2 days. I think I could get by with taking it every other day and then taking Saturday and Sunday off.
> You taking SNS or Primaforce?


Don't know what you're talking about. There are some russian manufacturers, their phenibut is sold in any drugstore here.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

GSH said:


> It seems to stay in my system around 2 days. I think I could get by with taking it every other day and then taking Saturday and Sunday off.
> You taking SNS or Primaforce?


The time I took it 5 days in a row I had the worst withdrawal ever after it. Never again. Strictly 2 days in a row with 5 or 6 days wash out for me or I get problems.


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## GSH (Jul 16, 2009)

ugh1979 said:


> The time I took it 5 days in a row I had the worst withdrawal ever after it. Never again. Strictly 2 days in a row with 5 or 6 days wash out for me or I get problems.


Worse then benzos?


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

I've never taken benzos enough to get a withdrawal so couldn't say. I'm guessing it's very similar though.


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## DK3 (Sep 21, 2011)

*Phenibut Experience Part Three (1,500mg)*

Ok guys, here's my latest experience with Phenibut for those interested...

As I posted a few days ago, I tried 1000mg (2x500mg capsules) after my 2000mg first experience. Since it had absolutely no noticeable effect, I decided to try 1,500mg on Monday.

This dose certainly seems to be the sweet spot for me. I got the full on effects, but not quite as intense as 2000mg, and none of the sore head/headache I experienced either at that dose.

I am taking Stablon (an anti-depressant) at the moment, but I don't think it interferes with Phenibut.

Here's a summary of the experience:

11:00 - Took 1500mg Phenibut empty stomach

12:00 - Took 12.5mg Stablon

13:00 - Feeling quite anxious and over-stimulated physically and mentally, quite unpleasant. Believe it's the strong black tea I drank earlier combined with the Stablon.

13:17 - Starting to feel the onset of Phenibut.

13:30 - Ate an apple and some nuts earlier for lunch which seemed to bring on the effects more.

14:20 - Believe its now reached plateau phase, feels much less intoxicating than at 2g, but still very noticeable physically. Feels like having drunk a glass of wine or a shot of whisky. There is some subtle motor coordination changes and concentrating and maintaining eye focus is affected slightly.

17:02 - It seems to have some empathic qualities, as listening to music while working, the music (Jean Michel Jarre) sounds very good and I'm drawn "into it" deeply, my thinking has become much more deeper and imagination is unlocked. Mood is very upbeat and positive too, almost like an anti-depressant effect, edging on euphoric, yet not manic and no frequent thoughts or sexual stimulation like at 2g. At this point I'm very keen to get outside and yearning to go out but I have to finish my work.

17:30 - Feels like the effects are beginning to wear off a bit. Went out for an hour. Social anxiety was immediately at the forefront. I felt edgy and not very friendly around people. Found it difficult smiling and acknowledging people. Big disappointment. I still felt the Phenibut was in my system, but it just didn't help socially.

19:19 - Feeling very tired and sleepy.

Summary:

1,500mg seems to be the right therapeutic dose for me. I find it very difficult to judge when best to take it, because of the long delay before onset. I guess this comes with more experience of using it and getting used to it.

I'm not sure if the experience was marred by having the caffeine (which I've been trying to avoid) or whether the stimulant effect of the Stablon made me edgy. Or it may have just been that the Phenibut was wearing off by the time I went out. I should try to do the experiment again clean on just Phenibut.

I can't say at this stage it's helping with SA or making any significant difference, but this is only one experience. I would need to take it a few more times to be sure.


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

DK3 said:


> I am taking Stablon (an anti-depressant) at the moment, but I don't think it interferes with Phenibut.


I experienced an extremely and profound opioid-like euphoric high when took 1000 mg of phenibut (gradually in 3-4 hours) and then tianeptine 12,5 or 25 mg, don't remember. It was something comparable to high dose of good kratom or codeine, but more mentally clear. I was surprised. But I had no success in attempt to reproduce it lately. Just one kiss of God.


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## sethVacelli (Sep 24, 2012)

*Phenibut is ruling & ruining my life!!!*

I started almost 8years ago, me & some firends. We never used those tiny spoons, teaspoons instead, never measured? Whatever made me feel better. "i now go through 1 - 200gram container a week!" where i was using 500grams a month! Which you know with $, i could of made a nice car paid off by now! It has changed my brain chemistry at these dosages? Ive lost family members, girlfriends, friends, and jobs! Ive went to detox's just to have me be delusional after 5days, there to a depression hospital & then some? I need 2talk 2someone who has done this feat!!! Or a doctor that knows anything about it? Because no pyschians in michigan dont??? Because everybodys posts dosages "i wish i would of started!!!" if someone could give me some advise or who 2call? It would be more appreciated than you"ll ever know!!! My regular e-mail is [email protected]~so lost seth~~


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

You should buy some baclofen off the net and slowly replace it with that


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

DK3 said:


> Due to the way this substance made me feel, particularly the sudden sadness and slightly depressed state (even thinking about suicidal things, although not thinking about actually committing suicide) I would advise caution to anyone thinking of taking Phenibut if you're inclined to have suicidal thoughts or have depression. I'm not normally given to sudden bouts of sadness/depression and suicidal thoughts and given that I felt very positive and fine before taking Phenibut, this for me is an alarm bell that this substance may effect people profoundly on an emotional level (and for the worse) possibly. Of course, this may just be my own experience and not typical of Phenibut (comments?). Just be careful at higher doses.


The same thing happened to me after I took my first dose of Phenibut. About an hour after I took it I started feeling really emotional and I sat in my room while listening to sad music and crying. I had some really messed up side effects with my first two doses, but those side effects went away. I actually took 1g this morning before I went to work and I felt upbeat and focused all day, I also had no anxiety. I'm impressed with this stuff, but just like benzos I know I can't take it everyday. I really wish there was something I could take every day that would work as well as a benzo or phenibut. Especially after dealing with the joke that is Zoloft.


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## tornadobill (Dec 14, 2011)

be careful with baclofen.Far more powerful than phenibut.In lower dose its similar to phenibut(for some people).High doses without tirtating up slowly can be dangerous.Hallucinations,euphoria,paranoia,insomnia,agitation common in overdose.More severe overdose can lead to seizures,hypertension and deep coma and death.I tried this once and it was similar to 2cb or 4 aco DMT(psilacetin).Despite being a GABA B agonists it has a strong phenethylamine and serotongergic feel.Thes side effect fade quickly however and baclo becomes anti dopamine anti serotonergic.Its unsafe for recreation and never know what it will do to you.High dose baclo is quite unpridictable.Also long term use can sometimes lead to dangerous withdrawals.


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## CD700 (Apr 22, 2010)

tornadobill said:


> be careful with baclofen.Far more powerful than phenibut.In lower dose its similar to phenibut(for some people).High doses without tirtating up slowly can be dangerous.Hallucinations,euphoria,paranoia,insomnia,agitation common in overdose.More severe overdose can lead to seizures,hypertension and deep coma and death.I tried this once and it was similar to 2cb or 4 aco DMT(psilacetin).Despite being a GABA B agonists it has a strong phenethylamine and serotongergic feel.Thes side effect fade quickly however and baclo becomes anti dopamine anti serotonergic.Its unsafe for recreation and never know what it will do to you.High dose baclo is quite unpridictable.Also long term use can sometimes lead to dangerous withdrawals.


What doses were you using ?
I started at 30mg yesterday and have taken 60mg spread out over today and haven't noticed any s/e or benefits


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## tornadobill (Dec 14, 2011)

I took over 120 mg at once.Started at 9.00 pm and hallucinations at 10.Effects lasted 6-8 hours.Less pleasant than 2cb or shrooms/4 aco DMT.That was a year ago.Never again! Dont try it-terrible body load and mindf****. You took 30 mg so didnt have side effects.Some people can be sensitive at 30 others not.You are lucky or got weak baclo-potentcy varies from brands and from pill to pill and body chemistry.


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## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

blakeyz said:


> What doses were you using ?
> I started at 30mg yesterday and have taken 60mg spread out over today and haven't noticed any s/e or benefits


60mg at once is the sweet spot for me. 30mg, or 60mg spread over the day and I don't feel much.

I find 60mg to equal 2g Phenibut. A nice all day long anxiolytic.

I've been using Phenibut and Baclofen for over 2 years now but strictly no more than 2 days a week, and have had no problem with tolerance or dependency.

As the poster above said, dosing 120mg+ Baclofen might not be too pleasant.


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## MissNurseSusie (Aug 2, 2013)

I've just started taking phenibut 3 weeks ago. It worked good the first two days. Then, by the second day I was extremely nauseous. I actually threw up. I've ears if you wait it out, that stuff disappears. It did not disappear. I've taken a few days off inbetween. I thought I'd give it another go, and the same thing happened: very nauseated. I hate feeling nauseated. So, I threw out all my pills. I'm just going to stop taking it. I was taking 1,000-3,000 mg a day. Other things that have happened to me are: increase in weight. I mean sudden increase, of about 8 lbs. Dark urine, water retention to the point my body was sore to the touch, funny tastes and smells, sudden acne and extremely bloated abdomen. I don't think this stuff is good for the liver, or kidneys. From what I know it's a lot like Baclofen, the muscle relaxer that's also used for alcohol withdrawal. I don't recommend using this product.


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

MissNurseSusie said:


> I've just started taking phenibut 3 weeks ago. It worked good the first two days. Then, by the second day I was extremely nauseous. I actually threw up. I've ears if you wait it out, that stuff disappears. It did not disappear. I've taken a few days off inbetween. I thought I'd give it another go, and the same thing happened: very nauseated. I hate feeling nauseated. So, I threw out all my pills. I'm just going to stop taking it. I was taking 1,000-3,000 mg a day. Other things that have happened to me are: increase in weight. I mean sudden increase, of about 8 lbs. Dark urine, water retention to the point my body was sore to the touch, funny tastes and smells, sudden acne and extremely bloated abdomen. I don't think this stuff is good for the liver, or kidneys. From what I know it's a lot like Baclofen, the muscle relaxer that's also used for alcohol withdrawal. I don't recommend using this product.


Yea.....dark urine doesn't sound very good. Did you have any kidney or liver pain? Well I dosed something like 2,100mg and wound up puking and being sick the entire day, not to mention it slowed my respirations. That night I had liver pain. So I wouldn't be surprised if this supplement caused kidney or liver damage.


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

barry1685 said:


> Yea.....dark urine doesn't sound very good. Did you have any kidney or liver pain? Well I dosed something like 2,100mg and wound up puking and being sick the entire day, not to mention it slowed my respirations. That night I had liver pain. So I wouldn't be surprised if this supplement caused kidney or liver damage.


Weird I needed 4-5 grams to feel anything and that wasn't tolerance. From the get go.

Stuff is probably not as safe as people think.


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## barry1685 (May 25, 2011)

kehcorpz said:


> Weird I needed 4-5 grams to feel anything and that wasn't tolerance. From the get go.
> 
> Stuff is probably not as safe as people think.


I think I'm hypersensitive to medicines.


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## SupaDupaFly (Sep 1, 2011)

This stuff if not used properly will really mess you up. If this is your first time trying and buying phenibut just read a lot about it and be informed.


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## Marcus Hunter (Jan 12, 2015)

*Suffering for 8 years now*

I suffer from Generalized anxiety, and panic disorder among other things. And upon doing some research I came across this website www.noofen.com

The website is a great help. I currently take klonopin for anxiety, but the information on www.noofen.com helped me lower my anxiety even more.

As many of you know, anti-anxiety medicine doesn't always get rid of your anxiety, it simply makes it manageable. Well, if you're a responsible person you may just be able to "get rid" of your anxiety. The information of this site is by no means a cure, but it will lead you down the right path. The path that may considerably help improve your anxiety symptoms.

Interestingly, my anxiety is cause by PFS. It's incredibly uncommon, and the sir effect of a prescription drug. Anyway, I've tried everything for my anxiety and this helped a little but you need to read about it first before jumping in.

God Bless,

Marcus


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