# Stubborn Calves!



## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

I posted this in another forum but I thought I might get some feedback on here. Anybody find any effective routine/ideas for calf growth? I've tried most everything over the years and while I've had a bit of success (not much) I'm still searching and experimenting.

Routines tried:

High Volume
Heavy weights
Explosive reps (Jumping)
Using pressure cuff
Tippy toeing for 5 minutes
Static holds
Slow reps
Varying positions (toes pointing in, toes pointing out)
Tibialis anterior exercises
Sprinting
Multiple exercises (Donkey raises, One-legged calf raise, etc.)
etc.

P.S. My calves are not too high. Probably medium length. The thing is that my hams, glutes and quads can grow but I don't develop them on purpose because I don't want to have the frog look (big thighs, small calves). At least they are somewhat proportional now. Skinny but proportional. I have looked at MRI cross-sectional pics of calves and the soleus muscle seems to be much bigger than gastrognemius muscle. (see link below) I tried sitting calf raises in past because of this but with little results. I also tried emphasizing stretches. I got zilch from it. Any ideas or am I doomed to having smaller calves?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray440_color.png

Here's my calf pic:


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## littlepickles (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't have any advice... but I think you have nice calves. I usually hate guys legs, but I like yours for some reason haha.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

littlepickles said:


> I usually hate guys legs,


So do most guys, I think. Guy's legs look like seagulls. They tend to have big upper bodies and chicken legs. Females have much better looking legs (aesthetically-speaking). What's worse about guys is they tend to wear long baggy shorts and this makes their legs look even more like seagulls/chickens and shorter than they are. Since guys tend to have dispropoprtianally short legs compared to their height, they look even stumpier. The worst is the bodybuilders that get huge on top but have tiny legs below. They look like gorillas. I guess I am very judgemental when it comes to physiques, after all. I never wear shorts because the long shorts make me look like a seagull. And if you wear shorter, slightly less baggy ones, everybody will look at you in a funny way, unless you're in Europe.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Its well known that calves are the muscle least likely to grow in size due to exercise. I would just give up on this.


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## Still Waters (Sep 18, 2008)

Horrid Heifers!!- Never mind, you may carry on-


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

Some people just seem to find it harder to develop their calves than others. It could be genetics. Maybe if you develop your thighs/glutes more your calves will grow more readily. Squats and deadlifts are known to build strength and mass throughout the body. They could help to bring your calves along. Who knows? :stu

You know you've done a decent set of squats when you feel a bit like you're going to pass out.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

TheoBobTing said:


> Squats and deadlifts are known to build strength and mass throughout the body. They could help to bring your calves along. Who knows? :stu


I'm not sure. I know many claim this but I'm not a big fan of that theory. I've looked at wheel-chair bodybuilders and they can get huge upper bodies without ever doing any leg/glute work. Look at this link:

http://www.wheelchair-bodybuilding.com/2007_caveman_classic


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## TheoBobTing (Jul 8, 2010)

Well, I hear you. You often see people with big upper bodies and small leg muscles. But I've also heard talk about people squatting to get bigger biceps. Some say that big compound weightlifting exercises force your body to release higher amounts of anabolic hormones.

Maybe squats/deadlifts would help your calves, maybe they wouldn't. I can't really say. What I do know is that barbell squats/deadlifts are generally just awesome.


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## Ready To Freak Out (Jul 20, 2010)

Did you actually measure your calves when you were doing all those calf exercises? I doubt that you can bulk up your calves too much, but I wonder if they didn't stay proportionate to your upper legs with all those exercises. When you have an area of your body that you're not happy with, it's difficult to see any progress.

And I think your calves look fine, for what it's worth. They look in good proportion to your upper legs.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

Ready To Freak Out said:


> Did you actually measure your calves when you were doing all those calf exercises? I doubt that you can bulk up your calves too much, but I wonder if they didn't stay proportionate to your upper legs with all those exercises. When you have an area of your body that you're not happy with, it's difficult to see any progress.
> 
> And I think your calves look fine, for what it's worth. They look in good proportion to your upper legs.


I kept a detailed log for almost 10-15 years. My calves were as high as 15" (currently 14.5-14.75") and as low as 14". Same with my arms. My forearms are also small (11") also. My chest is relatively bigger (44"). I have a few pics from when I was ~20 yrs old to present. I definitely gained size.

My upper thighs and chest develop quite easily but my arms and lower legs always fall behind. I tried using just compound-only movements (squats/leg press, deads, pulldowns, bench, shoulder press, etc.). I even tried just isolation-type movements (leg extension, leg curls, leg addution/abduction, standin calf raises, sitting calf raises, etc.) without much difference.

My calves and arms do not seem to respond. Currently, I'm doing more calf work at home using the stairs (on top of my bi-weekly routine calf work). I think it's hard to alter genetics. I've been trying for deacades. On the positive, I lose fat pretty easily. I even tried vascular occlussion around my calves(via tensor) when doing calf work. It did nothing permanent. Temporay gains occurred though.


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## Ready To Freak Out (Jul 20, 2010)

Maybe you just need to make peace with your calves and worry about being as physically fit as possible?

ETA: I don't mean that to sound glib, btw. I just think that it sounds like you've tried all you can try, and 15" is the max for your calves. At some point, I think we have to accept the limitations of our genetics and try to be happy with our bodies. Easier said than done, I know, but it might be a more doable goal than bulking your calves.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Ready To Freak Out said:


> Maybe you just need to make peace with your calves and worry about being as physically fit as possible?


The moral of the story. Listen to her because she could probably kick your ***! Focus on becoming better overall. As long as you can accomplish physical feats, who cares what your body looks like?

What are you really accomplish in getting bigger calves? I advise you get involved in some kind of martial art. In fact I recommend BJJ where you'll learn that although weight is a factor like in life, it definitely isn't everything. When you experience the humility of getting your *** handed by a guy twice as little as you, it'll teach you some lessons. It's also quite an intelligent martial art, I think you would enjoy it because you have technical style of thinking.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> The moral of the story. Listen to her because she could probably kick your ***! Focus on becoming better overall. As long as you can accomplish physical feats, who cares what your body looks like?
> 
> What are you really accomplish in getting bigger calves? I advise you get involved in some kind of martial art. In fact I recommend BJJ where you'll learn that although weight is a factor like in life, it definitely isn't everything. When you experience the humility of getting your *** handed by a guy twice as little as you, it'll teach you some lessons. It's also quite an intelligent martial art, I think you would enjoy it because you have technical style of thinking.


I used to wrestle when I was younger. I was actually pretty good. I like to be strong but I'm not obsessed with it. Moreover, even martial arts won't provide much defense against a gun. I want bigger calves so I could be more comfortable wearing shorts. I'm pretty sure I had/have a bit of BDD, that's why I care. My mom has BDD also. It's not like I have a choice. I didn't wear a short-sleeve shirts until I hit 18 yrs old or so because I thought my arms were too skinny. And then when I did start, I wore them even in winter. But shorts is a different story. Still haven't being able to do that except in the beach when few people around. I'm just extremely shy of the smallest flaws. I don't know why?


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## sprinter (Nov 22, 2003)

Do you use a calf machine? I couldn't get my calves to grow until I built a calf machine, one of those leverage types with a chain that goes from the top to the bottom lever where I stack the plates.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I have thick ankles - and nice calves. Part of it is genetics; the other is finding the right exercise. I run, which really gets that area going.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

sprinter said:


> Do you use a calf machine? I couldn't get my calves to grow until I built a calf machine, one of those leverage types with a chain that goes from the top to the bottom lever where I stack the plates.


I've used that type of calf machine (or the one you put the pin through) in many gyms and also the seating calf machine that's supposed to target the larger soleus muscle. Currently I do calf pushes on a leg press machine and also 1-legged dumbell calf-raises plus 1-legged calf raises on my kitchen stairs on some of the other non-workout days. I really do think there is some truth to the claim that calves and forearms are very difficult to grow. Many women seem to have awesome calves. It's one of my favourite woman turn-on parts (after the usual ones).



millenniumman75 said:


> I have thick ankles - and nice calves. Part of it is genetics; the other is finding the right exercise. I run, which really gets that area going.


Mine is 9.25" (my ankle, that is).


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Well, your legs are fine nonetheless. I don't think there is anything wrong with them considering your body type. :stu


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## proximo20 (Nov 25, 2006)

This is good instruction.






Edit: I noticed that you already tried different angles, but I also realized that unless your calves are as big as your your thighs you'll think you have small calves. I don't see any disproportion in your legs.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I'm a firm believer in very high volume training for the calves, that is how I have gotten them to respond for me. I usually do them twice a week. I do it for aesthetic purposes (calves are show-off muscles really) though, I have big upper legs and naturally my ankles are smaller but I've always had a big gastro so it looks fine, looks like a big softball popping out now. Don't neglect the soleus or tib. anterior as well. 

It is true for a lot of people big calves it is simply genetic. They don't have to do much. You can't do much with your natural bone structure (wrists/ankle girth) or insertion points. So you are not going to put on much muscle down by the ankle where it is bone, tendon, ligaments, ligaments, thin muscle passing through. You can develop the bigger muscles on the calf though. Plus a high insertion point (long achilles tendon) is usually a very good thing as far as jumping and sprinting.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Kon said:


> I used to wrestle when I was younger. I was actually pretty good. I like to be strong but I'm not obsessed with it. Moreover, even martial arts won't provide much defense against a gun. I want bigger calves so I could be more comfortable wearing shorts. I'm pretty sure I had/have a bit of BDD, that's why I care. My mom has BDD also. It's not like I have a choice. I didn't wear a short-sleeve shirts until I hit 18 yrs old or so because I thought my arms were too skinny. And then when I did start, I wore them even in winter. But shorts is a different story. Still haven't being able to do that except in the beach when few people around. I'm just extremely shy of the smallest flaws. I don't know why?


That's even more of a reason. I'm certain you'd enjoy BJJ, especially with a wrestling background. It doesn't matter if it's useless against a gun because if someone resorts to brandishing a gun in society and not war, they're are a coward, plain and simple.

I don't see anything wrong with your calves personally. You just have to love yourself and know what your body is capable off. Doesn't mean you have to stop trying to get bigger calves, but it's torturing to think you aren't good enough because you have flaws.

Those flaws you have, I know what it's like. I don't have the best calves either, stubborn biceps I'm certain we have a similar body type. But why be ashamed of it? It's who you are. If you want bigger calves, that's fine, but don't become so objectively obsessed that one muscle group is going to make or break you. Know what I mean?


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

Kon said:


> I'm not sure. I know many claim this but I'm not a big fan of that theory. I've looked at wheel-chair bodybuilders and they can get huge upper bodies without ever doing any leg/glute work. Look at this link:
> 
> http://www.wheelchair-bodybuilding.com/2007_caveman_classic


totally body workouts provide extra growth hormones that weak muscles can use. Wheelchair guys' legs don't benefit because they don't work the legs. So yeah, working your neck can improve you ankles, provided you are working ankles.

All that said, you are being dumb. Most people have calves small than their quads. You sound like you are getting obsessive-compulsive.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

VanDamMan said:


> totally body workouts provide extra growth hormones that weak muscles can use. Wheelchair guys' legs don't benefit because they don't work the legs. So yeah, working your neck can improve you ankles, provided you are working ankles.
> 
> All that said, you are being dumb. Most people have calves small than their quads. You sound like you are getting obsessive-compulsive.


I'm not talking about their legs benefiting. I'm talking about their upper bodies still benefiting major hypertrophy/strength despite the lack/omission of leg/hip work. They are not working legs and hips because they can't and yet they get very big upper bodies. So the transient increase in anabolic hormones that occur with doing squats/deads (that they missed) does not seem to affect their upper body growth.

As to your second paragraph, I know I'm a bit obsessive-complusive and anal and perfectionist and have anxiety issues but comments like yours don't help. Why not say that we're dumb/retarted for having SAD. It's not like we have a choice and can will it away. We can improve and deal with it but it will always be there (to some extent) for most of us until we die. Strength training has helped my issues quite a bit and I know where I stand but it's human nature to seek improvement even if it can seem a bit obsessive/anal at times. I actually enjoy watching and finding out what works sometimes more than the actual results.



Prodigal Son said:


> I'm a firm believer in very high volume training for the calves, that is how I have gotten them to respond for me.


I think I agree. My calves were biggest when I was my heaviest. The constant daily hauling around 190 lbs or so seemed to make my calves reach the 15" mark but once I lost the 20 lbs. I went back to where I was. But my bodyfat was way too high at 190 lbs. Maybe calves don't grow as much because of the relatively high % of ST fibers that seems to occur in the major calf muscle (the soleus). From what I vaguely recall it has a very high % of ST fibers versus FT fibers. I'm not sure I buy this view though because my forarms and arms are also slow to respond (and yet have a relatively high % of FT fibers) whereas my chest grows very quickly. I think it's just genetics. I pretty well stopped working out chest because of it. I don't like that huge chest look.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

It is not only the higher % of slow twitch, but the muscles in the lower legs and forearms just aren't as big as persay the hips, chest, quads, hams which have a ton of potential for hypertrophy. The more distal a structure is the less vascular it tends to be and capillary density can be improved usually through high volume training, the more blood flow to that area the more potential for growth.


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## Kon (Oct 21, 2010)

An interesting site of various athletic body-type (male and female) galleries. It's surprising how light some of these athletes are given their builds:

"This is a photoshoot of various Olympic-level athletes by Howard Schartz and Beverly Ornstein titled "The Athlete". Like many others I tend to fall into the trap of drawing the same body type over and over for athletic characters. This photoshoot serves as awesome reference reminding us artists that strong bodies come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and muscles show up in different ways. It also helps us keep in mind that not everyone who is fit is also lean. There's often a layer of fat over the muscles, making them less visible for some. I wanted to share this in a convenient way so here it is:"

http://ninamatsumoto.wordpress.com/2010/12/18/athletic-body-diversity-reference-for-artists/


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## PuRex (Mar 19, 2011)

My calves are actually kinda nice and big because I don't do a lot of walking or running so I have a bit of fat stored in the area.. lol


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## silverback777 (May 9, 2012)

Ready To Freak Out said:


> Maybe you just need to make peace with your calves and worry about being as physically fit as possible?
> 
> ETA: I don't mean that to sound glib, btw. I just think that it sounds like you've tried all you can try, and 15" is the max for your calves. At some point, I think we have to accept the limitations of our genetics and try to be happy with our bodies. Easier said than done, I know, but it might be a more doable goal than bulking your calves.


What a stupid ***** don't listen to her never give up on your goals .

If you aren't gaining anymore you should jump on the juice it helped me go from 16 inch calves to almost 20 inchers within 2 years 16 inchers looked horrible on me cuz I'm 6'3.


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

I think my calves are too thin too, and I hate it. :\


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Walking up steep hills...


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## silverback777 (May 9, 2012)

mezzoforte said:


> I think my calves are too thin too, and I hate it. :\


Yeah most black people have thin calves because of the high placement on the bone and very long achilles tendon in other words black people have the sprinter/jumper type legs very fast and explosive big at the top small on the bottom lol but on the other hand black people usually have to best *** muscles hahahha.


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