# Too picky for unnattractive girls, not confident enough for the better looking ones.



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm in an unfortunate situation. 

I've been single for over ten years (most of my adult life) and I sometimes browse a bit on PoF without any real intent. Indeed, between the ages of 23 and 30 I nearly forgot girls existed I had such little contact with them. Getting a gf seemed about as likely as becoming an astronaut so I buried it and concentrated on surviving. I've become a little more interested recently but the problem is I don't find the girls I can realistically get with attractive and I'm not confident that I'll be able to maintain the interest of a girl I find attractive. 

Singledom forever?


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

missamanda said:


> Most unfortunate.


Thanks for that.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

missamanda said:


> What response would be helpful?


Well preferably one that wasn't dripping in sarcasm.


----------



## Bert Reynolds (Dec 18, 2013)

I can understand your situation. I find it's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. You're attracted to what you are attracted to and there's nothing you can do to change it. The only way to "lower" your standards is to compromise, but yet I feel doing so is just a way to settle and to remain unsatisfied. But then again, maybe it's better than nothing. I have no exact solution to this myself besides working on your confidence level through exposure and practice.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

missamanda said:


> I can't help it we have different definitions of the word unfortunate.


Do we? Awesome.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

Bert Reynolds said:


> I can understand your situation. I find it's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. You're attracted to what you are attracted to and there's nothing you can do to change it. The only way to "lower" your standards is to compromise, but yet I feel doing so is just a way to settle and to remain unsatisfied. But then again, maybe it's better than nothing. I have no exact solution to this myself besides working on your confidence level through exposure and practice.


I feel like I'm compromised by genetics: how ever hard I work at things I'll only be worthy of girls that I don't find attractive because I'm not that attractive myself. I'm not hideous I don't think. I'm not morbidly obese or a dwarf or anything like that. But if I was a great catch I wouldn't have been single for a over decade. It's very tricky!


----------



## To22 (Apr 6, 2012)

I have a feeling there are some great reads on this subject outside of SAS. Good luck though, man.


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

You can't help what/who you're attracted to, but you'll have to come to terms with the fact that unfortunately you might end up being alone for a long time because of it. I mean that's the only way you'll be happy anyway, but easier said than done at times I know.


----------



## Yer Blues (Jul 31, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Well preferably one that wasn't dripping in sarcasm.


Oh, well I'm out.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I think as we get older, we're supposed to become less shallow. 

Unfortunately for those of us who haven't had a lot of luck, we tend to become even more. And porn doesn't help. I'm actually trying to stay porn free, because most women don't look like that, and you can't aim for those women when you're a 3 or a 4.

Most unfortunate, but that's the way it goes, I guess.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

Don't settle for **** when you don't have to.....work on your confidence and then start talking to girls...you can do it.....start by playing a sport or something trust me it works great


----------



## sweetpotato (Apr 5, 2012)

jsmith92 said:


> Don't settle for **** when you don't have to.....work on your confidence and then start talking to girls...you can do it.....start by playing a sport or something trust me it works great


Idk if you're using "****" to describe stuff in general, so I apologize if I'm misreading this. But to me it sounds like you're saying that less attractive women are "**** not worth settling for". I get it -- you can't help who you're attracted to, but I think it's a little unreasonable to prioritize looks above everything (that is what this thread is about), and to expect these women whom you choose solely for their looks to like you just for your personality.

I'm not trying to be discouraging to OP. There's someone out there for everybody and your time will come. It's just that this reply sounds a little bit objectifying to women.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

sweetpotato said:


> Idk if you're using "****" to describe stuff in general, so I apologize if I'm misreading this. But to me it sounds like you're saying that less attractive women are "**** not worth settling for". I get it -- you can't help who you're attracted to, but I think it's a little unreasonable to prioritize looks above everything (that is what this thread is about), and to expect these women whom you choose solely for their looks to like you just for your personality.
> 
> I'm not trying to be discouraging to OP. There's someone out there for everybody and your time will come. It's just that this reply sounds a little bit objectifying to women.


I'm not saying that they are **** I'm just saying that like if you aren't attracted to them dating them is not going to work out and you should build up your confidence and talk to people who you are attracted to.....I wasn't trying to discourage the OP either..I actually am trying to give him some hope that he will be able to talk to people who he is attracted to....by going for girls that you aren't attracted to you will be settling for ****...because the relationship will probably not work out and you won't be very happy either.....its just an analogy nothing more....I hope I didn't offend anyone


----------



## sweetpotato (Apr 5, 2012)

jsmith92 said:


> I'm not saying that they are **** I'm just saying that like if you aren't attracted to them dating them is not going to work out and you should build up your confidence and talk to people who you are attracted to.....I wasn't trying to discourage the OP either..I actually am trying to give him some hope that he will be able to talk to people who he is attracted to


Definitely. You'd be surprised how many girls say yes, OP


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

sweetpotato said:


> Definitely. You'd be surprised how many girls say yes, OP


Yeah


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

sweetpotato said:


> Idk if you're using "****" to describe stuff in general, so I apologize if I'm misreading this. But to me it sounds like you're saying that less attractive women are "**** not worth settling for". I get it -- you can't help who you're attracted to, *but I think it's a little unreasonable to prioritize looks above everything (that is what this thread is about), and to expect these women whom you choose solely for their looks to like you just for your personality. *
> 
> I'm not trying to be discouraging to OP. There's someone out there for everybody and your time will come. It's just that this reply sounds a little bit objectifying to women.


I'm not saying that. I wouldn't expect someone to settle for me either. It's just frustrating to know that you only have a chance (and even then it's not guaranteed) with girls you're not initially attracted to. Also when it comes to prioritising looks I would say that women are exactly the same as men. They tend to favour 'tall, dark and handsome' men over short, fat balding ones. Although to be fair if you have a large bank balance they may be willing to overlook this.


----------



## sweetpotato (Apr 5, 2012)

chefdave said:


> I'm not saying that. I wouldn't expect someone to settle for me either. It's just frustrating to know that you only have a chance (and even then it's not guaranteed) with girls you're not initially attracted to. Also when it comes to prioritising looks I would say that women are exactly the same as men. They tend to favour 'tall, dark and handsome' men over short, fat balding ones. Although to be fair if you have a large bank balance they may be willing to overlook this.


I can understand that. I'm ugly. I know where you're coming from. I disagree with the last part, though. No amount of money could entice me to sleep with Danny Devito.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

I don't think people get what an actual connection is, and that's why even the most attractive (by popular societal standards) end up being/feeling alone either by being single or in empty relationships.


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not here to deny reality but I'll tell you this much. You're being a little too ummmm.....honest when you use words like "unattractive" to describe the people you're not interested in. While they may not be attractive to you, they're human beings and they have feelings. Lots of people read this forum. It wouldn't hurt to use a little more tact when you're talking about people's looks.

Just my two cents. I'm sure you don't mean any offense but I keep seeing this thread and I kind of wince. And I'm not that easy to offend.


----------



## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

chefdave said:


> I sometimes browse a bit on PoF


^ Is this a problem?

On a dating site, you're just scanning picture icons and maybe giving a few quick glances to some still pictures on people's profiles.

If you interacted with these girls in real life, you would probably see them in a more attractive light (figuratively and literally).

I would argue that a person's physical standards would tend to be a bit higher on a dating site (looking at pixels on a screen) than they would be in the real world (looking at actual human beings). Get off the computer and into the real world.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

WillYouStopDave said:


> I'm not here to deny reality but I'll tell you this much. You're being a little too ummmm.....honest when you use words like "unattractive" to describe the people you're not interested in. While they may not be attractive to you, they're human beings and they have feelings. Lots of people read this forum. It wouldn't hurt to use a little more tact when you're talking about people's looks.
> 
> Just my two cents. I'm sure you don't mean any offense but I keep seeing this thread and I kind of wince. And I'm not that easy to offend.


Hmmm, I'm not sure it's offensive to admit that you find some people attractive and other people less so. Anyone who says that they find everyone equally attractive and nobody unattractive is either an angel or a liar!


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

Just Lurking said:


> ^ Is this a problem?
> 
> On a dating site, you're just scanning picture icons and maybe giving a few quick glances to some still pictures on people's profiles.
> 
> ...


It's a lot easier to find someone online as you have the choice of hundreds of people and you don't even have to leave the house. "Getting off the computer and getting out into the real world" as you aggressively put it is costly in terms of time and money and less likely to lead to success. What I'm I supposed to do, go join a pottery club for 6 months in the hope of meeting a single lady, lol? Don't have the time or energy for speculative adventures like that.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Hmmm, I'm not sure it's offensive to admit that you find some people attractive and other people less so. Anyone who says that they find everyone equally attractive and nobody unattractive is either an angel or a liar!


True


----------



## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Hmmm, I'm not sure it's offensive to admit that you find some people attractive and other people less so. Anyone who says that they find everyone equally attractive and nobody unattractive is either an angel or a liar!


 Here are the key parts to what I wrote.



WillYouStopDave said:


> I'm not here to deny reality......*It wouldn't hurt to use a little more tact* when you're talking about people's looks.
> 
> *Just my two cents.* I'm sure you don't mean any offense


 Like I said. You obviously weren't trying to be offensive and it isn't necessarily offensive to everyone. I've been around the web long enough to know that if you don't chose your words carefully, you WILL offend someone. And you probably will no matter what you say.

I was just trying to offer a little constructive criticism. I'm not going to pretend I'm always a pleasant character around here but most of my differences with other people are political. That said, this place can sometimes be overwhelmingly negative even for someone like me. There are a lot of people who come here who are unhappy about the way they look. I've seen a lot of that and it's kind of sad because no matter what you look like there's probably somebody who would find you attractive. Regardless, most people don't like the thought that 99% of humanity finds them unattractive. To refer to people as "unattractive" implies that they are definitively and officially unattractive and not just in your opinion.

Again, you probably didn't mean it that way but that's kind of the way it could come across.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Hmmm, I'm not sure it's offensive to admit that you find some people attractive and other people less so. Anyone who says that they find everyone equally attractive and nobody unattractive is either an angel or a liar!


 No that just means a person realizes that just because *"you're"* not attracted to someone doesn't make that person unattractive. There is a difference between telling someone "*I'm* not attracted to you" and telling someone "*you're* unattractive."

Let me put it to you this way. I can never look at anyone and say they are ugly. And that's my honest perception of the world. I see beauty in everyone even on the surface. Everyone projects a certain "vibe", I guess that's what I see. But I can tell someone "hmm I'm not attracted to you, there is nothing there, I'm not feeling any kind of spark." That does not mean that person is unattractive that just means my vibe isn't in touch with yours.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

purechaos said:


> No that just means a person realizes that just because *"you're"* not attracted to someone doesn't make that person unattractive. There is a difference between telling someone "*I'm* not attracted to you" and telling someone "*you're* unattractive."
> 
> Let me put it to you this way. I can never look at anyone and say they are ugly. And that's my honest perception of the world. I see beauty in everyone even on the surface. Everyone projects a certain "vibe", I guess that's what I see. But I can tell someone "hmm I'm not attracted to you, there is nothing there, I'm not feeling any kind of spark." That does not mean that person is unattractive that just means my vibe isn't in touch with yours.


You have got to be lying


----------



## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Maybe you should work on improving yourself (your appearance, confidence, etc.) so that you'll have better chances with the girls you're attracted to. I don't think you should settle for someone you don't find attractive...you'd just be unhappy.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

mezzoforte said:


> Maybe you should work on improving yourself (your appearance, confidence, etc.) so that you'll have better chances with the girls you're attracted to. I don't think you should settle for someone you don't find attractive...you'd just be unhappy.


Yeah that's what I was saying


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

jsmith92 said:


> You have got to be lying


 Ok let me put it to you this way. There is a girl at work. Lots of people (ignorant ones), run their mouths about how "ugly" she is. Wouldn't you know it this girl has a boyfriend whose attracted to her. Would you say this dude is delusional or crazy? Or could you fathom that what you are attracted to is more about your personal relationship to reality and not the person you are viewing. I could relate this to how people relate to colors. For instance, say you are not a fan of the color green but are attracted to the color blue. Is the color green really an unattractive color? Or is it just *YOUR* relationship to the color green that is unattractive. YOU vibe with blue and not green, but green can still be pretty and beautiful.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

purechaos said:


> Ok let me put it to you this way. There is a girl at work. Lots of people (ignorant ones), run their mouths about how "ugly" she is. Wouldn't you know it this girl has a boyfriend whose attracted to her. Would you say this dude is delusional or crazy? Or could you fathom that what you are attracted to is more about your personal relationship to reality and not the person you are viewing. I could relate this to how people relate to colors. For instance, say you are not a fan of the color green but are attracted to the color blue. Is the color green really an unattractive color? Or is it just *YOUR* relationship to the color green that is unattractive. YOU vibe with blue and not green, but green can still be pretty and beautiful.


If other people find her ugly I would as well.....I'm not going to seem like an idiot for liking someone who nobody else finds attractive


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

jsmith92 said:


> If other people find her ugly I would as well.....I'm not going to seem like an idiot for liking someone who nobody else finds attractive


 So other people define your personality, and your likes and dislikes?


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

purechaos said:


> So other people define your personality, and your likes and dislikes?


No I just don't want to be the one left out and picked on sorry.....its better to be a follower than be different and get bullied for it


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> No that just means a person realizes that just because *"you're"* not attracted to someone doesn't make that person unattractive. There is a difference between telling someone "*I'm* not attracted to you" and telling someone "*you're* unattractive."
> 
> Let me put it to you this way. I can never look at anyone and say they are ugly. And that's my honest perception of the world. I see beauty in everyone even on the surface. Everyone projects a certain "vibe", I guess that's what I see. But I can tell someone "hmm I'm not attracted to you, there is nothing there, I'm not feeling any kind of spark." That does not mean that person is unattractive that just means my vibe isn't in touch with yours.


I'm not sure about all this. Just because a few women may prefer John C Reilly to Brad Pitt I don't think that means they're as equally attractive. Sure, you're never going to be able to measure beauty perfectly, I never claimed this. But generally speaking it is possible to identify the people who have been blessed physically and if we take two people at opposing ends of the spectrum we're able to tell who is the more attractive.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> Ok let me put it to you this way. There is a girl at work. Lots of people (ignorant ones), run their mouths about how "ugly" she is. Wouldn't you know it this girl has a boyfriend whose attracted to her. Would you say this dude is delusional or crazy? Or could you fathom that what you are attracted to is more about your personal relationship to reality and not the person you are viewing. I could relate this to how people relate to colors. For instance, say you are not a fan of the color green but are attracted to the color blue. Is the color green really an unattractive color? Or is it just *YOUR* relationship to the color green that is unattractive. YOU vibe with blue and not green, but green can still be pretty and beautiful.


How do you know that you're not just projecting *your *feelings onto their relationship? He might want out.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

chefdave said:


> How do you know that you're not just projecting *your *feelings onto their relationship? He might want out.


Exactly


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

jsmith92 said:


> No I just don't want to be the one left out and picked on sorry.....its better to be a follower than be different and get bullied for it


 Don't wanna be a game changer eh? Throwing authenticity out the window to avoid social stigma? I'd rather be true to myself. The only reason people bully is because of their own ego and desire to feel superior or better.



chefdave said:


> I'm not sure about all this. Just because a few women may prefer John C Reilly to Brad Pitt I don't think that means they're as equally attractive. Sure, you're never going to be able to measure beauty perfectly, I never claimed this. But generally speaking it is possible to identify the people who have been blessed physically and if we take two people at the opposite ends of the spectrum we're able to tell who is more attractive.


 You *can't* measure attractiveness like that. There is no ruler or scale. It's just *YOUR* perception. You create the opposite ends of the spectrum there is no absolute. A person seems more attractive to you than another person because of YOUR attraction level and your relationship with reality. I wish I could explain it better. Popular *opinion* means absolute crap too.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> How do you know that you're not just projecting *your *feelings onto their relationship? He might want out.


 cause he talks about how much he loves her all the time. :roll


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> You *can't* measure attractiveness like that. There is no ruler or scale. It's just *YOUR* perception. You create the opposite ends of the spectrum there is no absolute. A person seems more attractive to you than another person because of YOUR attraction level and your relationship with reality. I wish I could explain it better. Popular *opinion* means absolute crap too.


You can measure attractiveness actually. Its called Hot or Not. And we all know the sort of people who are going to do well on that site: the hot ones. Yes I know physical beauty isn't set in stone but good looking people know they're good looking and the people looking at them know if they're good looking or not too. Just because we can't measure physical attractiveness with 100% certainty it doesn't mean it isn't true.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> You can measure attractiveness actually. Its called Hot or Not. And we all know the sort of people who are going to do well on that site: the hot ones. Yes I know physical beauty isn't set in stone but good looking people know they're good looking and the people looking at them know if they're good looking or not too. Just because we can't measure physical attractiveness with 100% certainty it doesn't mean it isn't true.


 So you say we can measure it actually, then at the end you say we can't measure it certainly, then you say that doesn't mean it isn't true? That makes no sense. You put a stick to a ruler it measures 2 inches, its true its 2 inches. You weigh a box at 10 pounds it's truly 10 pounds. 10 people are attracted to X, 5 people aren't. What does that mean? It means 5 people aren't and 10 people are attracted to X. But maybe a couple are only following what the other 8 are doing.

And there are actually people who are found to be good looking by a majority who don't find themselves good looking.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

It doesn't matter if a guy looked like this







If he has no confidence he is going to get nowhere


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> So you say we can measure it actually, then at the end you say we can't measure it certainly, then you say that doesn't mean it isn't true? That makes no sense. You put a stick to a ruler it measures 2 inches, its true its 2 inches. You weigh a box at 10 pounds it's truly 10 pounds. 10 people are attracted to X, 5 people aren't. What does that mean? It means 5 people aren't and 10 people are attracted to X. But maybe a couple are only following what the other 8 are doing.
> 
> And there are actually people who are found to be good looking by a majority who don't find themselves good looking.


I'm saying you know what it is when you see it and it is quantifiable but we can't measure it with the same degree of accuracy as weight or height. If you have an 8.5 rating on hot or not the chances are you're hot. If your rating is 2 the chances are you're not, and the people scoring 2's and 8.5's know they're going to get a high or low score before they've uploaded a thing.

It's like saying that it's impossible to measure the beauty of cars because 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. OK, fair enough. But we all know that Porsche 911 is a better looking car than a Lada.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> I'm saying you know what it is when you see it and it is quantifiable but we can't measure it with the same degree of accuracy as weight or height. If you have an 8.5 rating on hot or not the chances are you're hot. If your rating is 2 the chances are you're not, and the people scoring 2's and 8.5's know they're going to get a high or low score before they've uploaded a thing.
> 
> It's like saying that it's impossible to measure the beauty of cars because 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. OK, fair enough. But we all know that Porsche 911 is a better looking car than a Lada.


 some people don't give a **** about cars and are indifferent. Hot or not isn't even a scientific measurement. In fact that's nothing more than high school mentality rolled up into a website.

Taken from Hot or Not...

---------------------------------------------------------------
*Want to know how Hot you are?*

Of course you do. The concept of Hot or Not is simple, we show you who *thinks* you are Hot nearby. At home, in a coffee shop, at a gig, on the street, you can make new connections!
*Who We Are*

Hot or Not, the Original, was created over a decade ago, and now it's back! Created by a group of young innovative minds, reminiscing about the fun they used to have on Hot or Not, they got together to produce Hot or Not for 2014.
We all want to have answers to questions like "How cool am I?", "Would people say I'm popular?", "How can I get connected to new people in my area?". Hot or Not has the answer for all these questions... let us do the work for you.

-------------------------------------------

HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!! Going on that site is like going for a swim in a puddle on the side of the road. No depth. How cool am I? Really? People still need other people to validate how cool they are?

Can't really compare that to a calculator.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> some people don't give a **** about cars and are indifferent. Hot or not isn't even a scientific measurement. In fact that's nothing more than high school mentality rolled up into a website.


You missed the point. Even though we can't definitively say that a brand new Porsche is 'better looking' than a Lada because 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' etc we all know which is the better looking car and we all know which one we'd prefer to be seen in. I'm not suggesting that it's OK to go up to the owners of Ladas of course and tell them how ugly their car is, that would be insensitive. But to deny that there's a difference between the two is frankly bonkers.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> You missed the point. Even though we can't definitively say that a brand new Porsche is 'better looking' than a Lada because 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' etc we all know which is the better looking car and we all know which one we'd prefer to be seen in. I'm not suggesting that it's OK to go up to the owners of Ladas of course and tell them how ugly their car is, that would be insensitive. But to deny that there's no difference between the two is frankly bonkers.


 You keep saying "we" :mumThe only difference is your perception. You can't say EVERY person will prefer the Porshe. And this is my point. It wouldn't really be wrong of you to tell someone that you "think" their car is ugly. It would be delusional of you to think that your opinion is the universal truth though.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

I will never ever ever consider being in a relationship with someone unattractive sorry I can't stand it


----------



## mb47 (Sep 30, 2013)

missamanda said:


> Most unfortunate.


Like.

I was going to reply, "What a quandary!"

Our minds are rather aligned on the subject.


----------



## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

chefdave said:


> Don't have the time or energy for speculative adventures like that.


Dating sites are meant to *supplement* your dating life; they're not intended to *be* your dating life.

If you can't handle the real world, then how are you going date? If you think _finding_ someone takes such energy, how are you going to handle actually _dating_?

Maybe you need to focus first on why you lack this energy (and how to improve your self-confidence in general). Priorities.


----------



## Bert Reynolds (Dec 18, 2013)

DeeperUnderstanding said:


> I think as we get older, we're supposed to become less shallow.
> 
> Unfortunately for those of us who haven't had a lot of luck, we tend to become even more. And porn doesn't help. I'm actually trying to stay porn free, because most women don't look like that, and you can't aim for those women when you're a 3 or a 4.
> 
> Most unfortunate, but that's the way it goes, I guess.


Me personally, I don't view most female porn stars to be anything more exceptional looks wise than an average-looking woman. Don't forget, in the studio they doll up a whole lot wearing a good amount of make-up, not to mention all of the special effects/photo editings done on the computer.


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

if anything, i find being attracted to someone based on physical attraction annoying. but i am more picky about other things.

but if you want to find someone, then its easier to be less picky than to change how confident you are, etc.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

andy1984 said:


> if anything, i find being attracted to someone based on physical attraction annoying. but i am more picky about other things.
> 
> but if you want to find someone, then its easier to be less picky than to change how confident you are, etc.


I'm not changing my standards and accepting an ugly person just so I can be in a relationship......yuck


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

jsmith92 said:


> I'm not changing my standards and accepting an ugly person just so I can be in a relationship......yuck


 No one is saying you should. But if you were attracted to someone and then your friends told you she was ugly, and you left her, I might say it isn't you that has the standards.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

OP, I believe the words you are looking for in your title are, "too shallow" and "not attractive enough".

I hear girls dig honesty, so hey at least we can make some progress here.


----------



## idoughnutknow (Apr 7, 2014)

Generally, someone is about as attractive as the people that would consider them for a relationship (as outlined by the matching hypothesis). If the only people that are interested in you are (what you perceive to be) ugly, then in all likelihood you're probably not very much of a catch in the first place. If someone wants to attract (what they perceive to be) more desirable partners, be it more attractive, interesting, or intelligent people, they should work on improving themselves first and foremost which will allow them to attract their desired kind of partner.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

purechaos said:


> No one is saying you should. But if you were attracted to someone and then your friends told you she was ugly, and you left her, I might say it isn't you that has the standards.


You don't get what I'm saying omg


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

chefdave said:


> I'm saying you know what it is when you see it and it is quantifiable but we can't measure it with the same degree of accuracy as weight or height. If you have an 8.5 rating on hot or not the chances are you're hot. If your rating is 2 the chances are you're not, and the people scoring 2's and 8.5's know they're going to get a high or low score before they've uploaded a thing.
> 
> It's like saying that it's impossible to measure the beauty of cars because 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. OK, fair enough. But we all know that Porsche 911 is a better looking car than a Lada.


If you can't afford a Porsche and you're too stuck up to get a Lada, well you're gonna have to ****ing walk aren't you?


----------



## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

sweetpotato said:


> I can understand that. I'm ugly. I know where you're coming from. I disagree with the last part, though. No amount of money could entice me to sleep with Danny Devito.


Not you, but plenty of hot girls would.


----------



## Farideh (Nov 13, 2011)

No worries. I also get annoyed and bothered when ugly guys show attraction towards me. I'm like "hell no dude." Then the cute or at least decent looking guys ignore me and I'm just like "Well I'd rather be solooo."


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

andy1984 said:


> If you can't afford a Porsche and you're too stuck up to get a Lada, well you're gonna have to ****ing walk aren't you?


Is this level of aggression really acceptable just because I said that I find some girls unattractive? Just another macho keyboard warrior, I'm sure you're just as confrontational in real life.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> You keep saying "we" :mumThe only difference is your perception. You can't say EVERY person will prefer the Porshe. And this is my point. It wouldn't really be wrong of you to tell someone that you "think" their car is ugly. It would be delusional of you to think that your opinion is the universal truth though.


OK, blowing your lid isn't going to help. It's also delusional to claim that beauty is entirely subjective. Just because it can't be measured with100% accuracy it doesn't mean it's something I've just made up off the top of my head. Your position is an absolutist one of little merit. Beauty exists, it can be measured (by asking people's opinions, shock horror!) and it's silly to suggest that we're all equally attractive when there's so much genetic variation.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

Just Lurking said:


> Dating sites are meant to *supplement* your dating life; they're not intended to *be* your dating life.
> 
> If you can't handle the real world, then how are you going date? If you think _finding_ someone takes such energy, how are you going to handle actually _dating_?
> 
> Maybe you need to focus first on why you lack this energy (and how to improve your self-confidence in general). Priorities.


Dating sites make it more convenient to find dates, just as Autotrader makes it more convenient to find cars. You don't go checking in supermarkets and joining book clubs on the off chance that someone has a motor they want to sell, similarly if you want a *date *it's more efficient if you join some type of singles club instead of going around the houses.

Also I like the way I'm getting attacked _personally _for the general statement that I find some girls unattractive. It seems some people aren't worried about offending others at all.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

Sacrieur said:


> OP, I believe the words you are looking for in your title are, "too shallow" and "not attractive enough".
> 
> I hear girls dig honesty, so hey at least we can make some progress here.


Thanks for your brutal honesty Sacrieur, I'll remember that the next time you bare soul on here.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> OK, blowing your lid isn't going to help. It's also delusional to claim that beauty is entirely subjective. Just because it can't be measured with100% accuracy it doesn't mean it's something I've just made up off the top of my head. Your position is an absolutist one of little merit. Beauty exists, it can be measured (by asking people's opinions, shock horror!) and it's silly to suggest that we're all equally attractive when there's so much genetic variation.


 The fact that beauty is based on "opinion" makes it entirely subjective.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> The fact that beauty is based on "opinion" makes it entirely subjective.


Its a fact that we all look different and as physical beauty is based upon looks it's also a fact that some people are more attractive than others. I'm sorry if reality offends one or two of the more sensitive posters here.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Its a fact that we all look different and as physical beauty is based upon looks it's also a fact that some people are more attractive than others. I'm sorry if reality offends one or two of the more sensitive posters here.


 Not offended, just annoyed at your lack of knowledge, of a definition of a simple word (subjective).


----------



## Alone75 (Jul 29, 2013)

I see this thread has ruffled a few feathers! Women on here have made similar threads and haven't got as much hostility, but then it's little wonder given the huge double standards in dating. 

If you're a woman who won't date or rejects a guy she finds physically unattractive, then she has "standards". If you do the same as a man, then you're "shallow".
Anyway OP keep looking and also improve yourself so you stand more a chance. It's a highly competitive market and woman do the choosing. Whatever you do to make yourself better, do it for you, not for any woman.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

AceP said:


> I see this thread has ruffled a few feathers! Women on here have made similar threads and haven't got as much hostility, but then it's little wonder given the huge double standards in dating.
> 
> If you're a woman who won't date or rejects a guy she finds physically unattractive, then she has "standards". If you do the same as a man, then you're "shallow".


Link me some.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

AceP said:


> I see this thread has ruffled a few feathers! Women on here have made similar threads and haven't got as much hostility, but then it's little wonder given the huge double standards in dating.
> 
> If you're a woman who won't date or rejects a guy she finds physically unattractive, then she has "standards". If you do the same as a man, then you're "shallow".
> Anyway OP keep looking and also improve yourself so you stand more a chance. It's a highly competitive market and woman do the choosing. Whatever you do to make yourself better, do it for you, not for any woman.


Finally, a bit of sensible advice! Thanks for returning this thread back to normality. :clap


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> Not offended, just annoyed at your lack of knowledge, of a definition of a simple word (subjective).


Do you think Simon Cowell would pick 5 chubby, balding, bespectacled X Factor hopefuls to create a new boyband with? If he was following your "objective" advice this wouldn't present a problem as there's "no objective thing as beauty" so there's no way of telling whether teenage girls would prefer this new band to conventional boybands like One Direction. This is patently absurd of course. There's being polite, and then there's sticking the blinkers on in the name of political correctness. I fear you've taken a reasonable idea a step too far.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Do you think Simon Cowell would pick 5 chubby, balding, bespectacled X Factor hopefuls to create a boyband with? If he was following your "objective" advice this wouldn't present a problem as there's "no objective thing as beauty" so there's no way of telling whether teenage girls would prefer this new band to conventional boybands like One Direction. This is patently absurd of course. There's being polite, and then there's sticking the blinkers on in the name of political correctness. I fear you've taken a reasonable idea a step too far.


 What "objective" advice have I given??? Again, you're missing the point of what subjectiveness is. You're living in a box thinking everyone in the world thinks or should think the same way you do, when they don't. I'm not saying you're being offensive, I'm saying you're living in a box. Some people are attracted to size 12s verses a size 2, some people like long hair, some people prefer brown eyes over blue, etc.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> What "objective" advice have I given??? Again, you're missing the point of what subjectiveness is. You're living in a box thinking everyone in the world thinks or should think the same way you do, when they don't. I'm not saying you're being offensive, I'm saying you're living in a box. Some people are attracted to size 12s verses a size 2, some people like long hair, some people prefer brown eyes over blue, etc.


Yes I'm living in a box, along with Simon Cowell, the entire advertising industry, the entire fashion industry, the music industry, nearly all men and most women who would prefer to be a size 10 than a size 18. We're all living a box and should open our eyes to the possibility of a boyband fronted by 5, balding, middle aged men. :yes


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> I'm in an unfortunate situation.
> 
> I've been single for over ten years (most of my adult life) and I sometimes browse a bit on PoF without any real intent. Indeed, between the ages of 23 and 30 I nearly forgot girls existed I had such little contact with them. Getting a gf seemed about as likely as becoming an astronaut so I buried it and concentrated on surviving. I've become a little more interested recently but the problem is I don't find the girls I can realistically get with attractive and I'm not confident that I'll be able to maintain the interest of a girl I find attractive.
> 
> Singledom forever?


 Aside from arguing about subjectiveness. Have you considered broadening your horizons to somewhere like meetup.com? This may help with your confidence and you could meet people with similar interests at the same time, as well as have a little fun. You could get to know people with no real intent or pressure and might end up meeting someone in process that you are attracted to and connect with.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Yes I'm living in a box, along with Simon Cowell, the entire advertising industry, the entire fashion industry, the music industry, nearly all men and most women who would prefer to be a size 10 than a size 18. We're all living a box and should open our eyes to the possibility of a boyband fronted by 5, balding, middle aged men. :yes


 Not all people live in boxes that way, you're generalizing.


----------



## chefdave (Dec 16, 2013)

purechaos said:


> Aside from arguing about subjectiveness. Have you considered broadening your horizons to somewhere like meetup.com? This may help with your confidence and you could meet people with similar interests at the same time, as well as have a little fun. You could get to know people with no real intent or pressure and might end up meeting someone in process that you are attracted to and connect with.


No, thank you I'll take a look. I really would just like a couple of female friends I can occasionally go out to dinner or have a coffee with. I enjoy restaurants but both the girls (old friends) I would usually go with have long term boyfriends so it's a bit awkward. Going with one other bloke is a bit weird too, although I have done it before with a friend of mine. All my friends have partners so it's difficult to get out sometimes.


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> No, thank you I'll take a look. I really would just like a couple of female friends I can occasionally go out to dinner or have a coffee with. I enjoy restaurants but both the girls (old friends) I would usually go with have long term boyfriends so it's a bit awkward. Going with one other bloke is a bit weird too, although I have done it before with a friend of mine. All my friends have partners so it's difficult to get out sometimes.


 Yeah meetup might be your cup of tea then ....


----------



## Sourdog (Sep 13, 2011)

Talk about a derailed thread, eh?


----------



## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

It was derailed, rerailed, then derailed and rerailed again lol


----------



## yourfavestoner (Jan 14, 2010)

sweetpotato said:


> Idk if you're using "****" to describe stuff in general, so I apologize if I'm misreading this. But to me it sounds like you're saying that less attractive women are "**** not worth settling for". I get it -- you can't help who you're attracted to, but I think it's a little unreasonable to prioritize looks above everything (that is what this thread is about), and to expect these women whom you choose solely for their looks to like you just for your personality.
> 
> I'm not trying to be discouraging to OP. There's someone out there for everybody and your time will come. It's just that this reply sounds a little bit objectifying to women.


The thread title told me this thread was gonna head to a men vs women showdown, and after reading the first page I can see it trending that way. It's not just a guys only forum boys, there are women here as well.

I think my concern OP is that this is an excuse to not approach women. You won't bother with those you deem unattractive, but you acknowledge you're intimidated by those that YOU DO find attractive. So what I infer from that is you're scared to make the approach with ANY woman.

I'm not trying to insult you - it's something a lot of guys struggle with. But I think in your case it's important to recognize that is more likely just you rationalizing your way OUT of talking to any women. And that's not the mindset you want to have.


----------



## Sindelle (Oct 22, 2010)

Well OP, maybe if you tried to get to know some of these women who are attractive, but maybe not perfect 10's you would find that you develop an attraction? Just a suggestion.


----------



## hybridmoments (Feb 24, 2014)

it's hard with SA but you need to get out there and meet people to become less picky! I was the same way, but now when I meet people and I'm not attracted to just looks.
Unfortunate for women though, I feel I'm on the same boat. SA, no self-esteem, awkward, loner, and I don't think I'm attractive at all. NO ONE likes me. Yet, you have to believe it will happen.
Shiny, nice things are great to look at but they don't always last the same.
good luck buddy.


----------



## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

chefdave said:


> Singledom forever?


Why not... Honestly there isn't a whole lot a women in a relationship can offer.

The really attractive ones, are great, but they are normally a lot to deal with. You get jealous, they have so much opportunity, they move on quickly.

The not so attractive ones, are great as well, but normally they've got insecurities that are no fun to deal with.

What's wrong with singledom?

I spend a lot of time being nothing but friends/acquaintances for a reason. Women are quite frankly the best to simply hang around. As soon as dating gets involved it's almost as if it's ruins everything. I'd rather run into a friend, than an ex-girl-friend.



hybridmoments said:


> NO ONE likes me.


Oh they do... guys love women... doesn't matter what they look as... women in general are simply a different breed and alot more fun than guys...

Anyways, it's all smoke and mirrors. Makeup. Seriously. Guys are attracted to makeup and artistry.

Well, some are attracted to bodies and not much else, but generally it's the style. Then it's the personality. Genuinely. It's the personality that is the most attractive thing about a woman. Well, style really helps, but there are plenty of good looking women who simply lack any sort of personality what-so-ever. They are really boring people.

Let's put things this way... all women without makeup look the same as boys. No lie.


----------



## hybridmoments (Feb 24, 2014)

MrKappa said:


> Why not... Honestly there isn't a whole lot a women in a relationship can offer.
> 
> The really attractive ones, are great, but they are normally a lot to deal with. You get jealous, they have so much opportunity, they move on quickly.
> 
> ...


"all women without makeup look the same as boys. No lie" lmao. 
sooo true! I laughed so hard :clap:clap
yeah, I guess so. I had a classmate tell me that it's my personality. and I do, I try to get fixed up more often, even when i feel like ishh. I am so self-conscious and no self-esteem, so I need to work on that.Its happened where people, guys and people, like look at me like they expect more and then they realize how lame I am and they lose interest.
It's just so hard. But i have to have to have to work on it!
thanks for that!!!


----------



## MrKappa (Mar 18, 2013)

I find that insecure women get upset if guys relax around them and their eyes fail to glaze over. They get suspicious or something strange along those lines.

Well... with some women who have mastered the art of makeup and style, it happens more easily. With some women who are great sexual partners, the eyes glaze over right after sex. With other people it happens after a slow bonding through friendship.

So... guys eyes cannot be glazed over all the time...

In any event, it is true, guys love women. All women.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

Sindelle said:


> Well OP, maybe if you tried to get to know some of these women who are attractive, but maybe not perfect 10's you would find that you develop an attraction? Just a suggestion.


Very true......as long as a girl is somewhat attractive and in shape I will be attracted to her... 10s are way too much work and very annoying to deal with .....because most of the time they are either stoners or complete sex freaks....


----------



## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

I find that the prettiest women tend to be the worst people. Of course this not true of all beautiful women. I'm just saying that there is a disproportionate amount of vain narcissists among beautiful women. 

Some of them only think about fashion, shoes, makeup, hair and nothing else. That's it. And a disproportionate number of them are completely brainless. I think some beautiful women are not motivated to improve themselves or study.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm going to be alone forever though........I'm not worth anyone's time so what is the use


----------



## TheMachine (Nov 24, 2009)

I know how you feel man. when I see a girl you're attracted to, I automatically think she's wayy out of my league. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's probably not the case, but the fact that we think that low of ourselves that we're not worthy of having relations with someone we're attracted to. We feel that we can only get girls we're not attracted to because it's not what we want and we think that we don't deserve the things we get drawn to.

It's how it is with me but again, you can correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

TheMachine said:


> I know how you feel man. when I see a girl you're attracted to, I automatically think she's wayy out of my league.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but it's probably not the case, but the fact that we think that low of ourselves that we're not worthy of having relations with someone we're attracted to. We feel that we can only get girls we're not attracted to because it's not what we want and we think that we don't deserve the things we get drawn to.
> 
> It's how it is with me but again, you can correct me if I'm wrong.


No you're completely right...I like this girl but I am s miserable ****...so nobody would want to be in a relationship with me


----------



## Loveless (Apr 6, 2012)

Man da hell is wrong with people? Oh look at me I'm ugly a girl will never like me. Oh look at me I'm unattractive but because I feel sorry for myself and because the world revolves around me, I am entitled to a person who is extremely attractive even though I myself have nothing to offer but arrogance, narcissism, self-pity, and selfishness. Wake up people. You are not entitled to a relationship. Someone is not going to knock on your some day and go " aww you have been single for 7 years. I'm here to be your girlfriend that you so richly deserve and I will do everything you want because that's what you deserve for being single." The entitlement, the self-pity, the pathetic little sadness in your heart is exactly why people don't deserve love. If you judge people for being unattractive when you yourself aren't you are a hypocrite. The selfishness and stupidity of society is just sad. I myself have had to grow out of those stupid delusions and I have been guilty for doing this too. It's high time people realized the universe does not cater to them respectively and that no one deserves anything in this world. Just work your *** off and do something. If love is all you want, if that is the one thing you want in life, you will forever feel empty.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

Loveless said:


> Man da hell is wrong with people? Oh look at me I'm ugly a girl will never like me. Oh look at me I'm unattractive but because I feel sorry for myself and because the world revolves around me, I am entitled to a person who is extremely attractive even though I myself have nothing to offer but arrogance, narcissism, self-pity, and selfishness. Wake up people. You are not entitled to a relationship. Someone is not going to knock on your some day and go " aww you have been single for 7 years. I'm here to be your girlfriend that you so richly deserve and I will do everything you want because that's what you deserve for being single." The entitlement, the self-pity, the pathetic little sadness in your heart is exactly why people don't deserve love. If you judge people for being unattractive when you yourself aren't you are a hypocrite. The selfishness and stupidity of society is just sad. I myself have had to grow out of those stupid delusions and I have been guilty for doing this too. It's high time people realized the universe does not cater to them respectively and that no one deserves anything in this world. Just work your *** off and do something. If love is all you want, if that is the one thing you want in life, you will forever feel empty.


That's what I thought...... I knew that this was true.......I'm not worthy of a relationship and that's why I haven't been in one


----------



## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

sweetpotato said:


> No amount of money could entice me to sleep with Danny Devito.


He makes up for it by being a silver tongued fox. His words reverberate at just the right frequency to make panties fall off.


----------



## pandalicious (May 26, 2014)

sweetpotato said:


> No amount of money could entice me to sleep with Danny Devito.


LOL agreed!


----------



## huh (Mar 19, 2007)

Sindelle said:


> Well OP, maybe if you tried to get to know some of these women who are attractive, but maybe not perfect 10's you would find that you develop an attraction? Just a suggestion.


Not the OP, but I've done this several times already. For the most part I don't bother with attractive women (what is typically considered attractive among most men anyway) anymore because they pretty much wont acknowledge my existence. However, I grew very attached to several girls that I initially felt no physical attraction to, and had a few long-ish relationships with some.

The problem is somewhat two-fold here though. Most socially anxious guys are probably more likely to resort to online dating. I've found that in online dating people are much pickier than they would be in real life. I send genuine messages to people I'm interested in, mention common interests from their profile, etc. If I'm lucky I get 1 out of 10 to respond back. And I'm not sending these messages to "10's" or anything. When things get that competitive/choosy, you either accept your situation and make the best of it, or try your luck offline But without a large social circle to connect with others (assuming the average for most socially anxious individuals on here) , or really putting yourself on the line in a social environment, then it is extremely difficult to ask others out this way. Obviously it's still possible, but there's a lot to overcome.

Anyway, my advice to the OP would be to try to date a few girls even if you don't initially have a physical attraction to them. If you share some common interests or views with them, you may be surprised how that attraction can change over time after getting to know them.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

huh said:


> Not the OP, but I've done this several times already. For the most part I don't bother with attractive women (what is typically considered attractive among most men anyway) anymore because they pretty much wont acknowledge my existence. However, I grew very attached to several girls that I initially felt no physical attraction to, and had a few long-ish relationships with some.
> 
> The problem is somewhat two-fold here though. Most socially anxious guys are probably more likely to resort to online dating. I've found that in online dating people are much pickier than they would be in real life. I send genuine messages to people I'm interested in, mention common interests from their profile, etc. If I'm lucky I get 1 out of 10 to respond back. And I'm not sending these messages to "10's" or anything. When things get that competitive/choosy, you either accept your situation and make the best of it, or try your luck offline But without a large social circle to connect with others (assuming the average for most socially anxious individuals on here) , or really putting yourself on the line in a social environment, then it is extremely difficult to ask others out this way. Obviously it's still possible, but there's a lot to overcome.
> 
> Anyway, my advice to the OP would be to try to date a few girls even if you don't initially have a physical attraction to them. If you share some common interests or views with them, you may be surprised how that attraction can change over time after getting to know them.


I cannot see myself with a physically unattractive girl ever, if she's not good looking I will run like hell sorry it's just how I am


----------



## HelpfulHero (Aug 14, 2013)

jsmith92 said:


> Don't settle for **** when you don't have to.....work on your confidence and then start talking to girls...you can do it.....start by playing a sport or something trust me it works great


this


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

HelpfulHero said:


> this


It's my philosophy most of the time unless I'm depressed


----------

