# Have any of you actually ever been helped by anything?



## Ryukil (Jun 2, 2011)

Just wondering.


----------



## Bohuw (Feb 1, 2013)

I am currently feeling the help from CBT. Before you listen to anyone saying CBT doesnt work, just remember there are many CBT techniques to be explored. Some are more effective than others depending on the person. For me, i find experiential and visual techniques much more effective.

Simply put, CBT is just therapy to reprogram your mind. It attempts to change your reactions to anxiety provoking situations into responses. Everyone has anxiety however us that have SA, GAD etc. struggle to control it or react to it in ways which perpetuate and exaggerate it.


----------



## InTheEvening (Dec 30, 2012)

Certainly, some of the methods I've learnt in CBT have been very helpful


----------



## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Exposure helped me a lot. I often force myself to talk to random strangers and it has gotten to the point that it isn't that difficult anymore.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

My depression is of biological origin and no amount of therapy can help that. My anxiety disorders are biological as well, but I used self-help CBT to reason my way through panic attacks so I won't freak out in public and disturb those around me. I can reason that there is nothing from which to feel fear, but yet my body feels like it's jumped off the side of a cliff.

I've seen more therapists than I can count, and have taken more graduate-level counseling courses than I care to admit. Nothing and no one has helped me......only myself. In fact, I was stigmatized and declared unemployable when I did seek help, despite the fact that I've never been hospitalized and am not violent or angry.

The entire field of psychology is a JOKE. The only ones licensed to practice it are disturbed themselves, even moreso than the rest of us for having gone through demoralizing doctorate programs where they were beat-up on by egomaniacs.


----------



## whattothink (Jun 2, 2005)

Pills.


----------



## thisismeyo (Feb 15, 2013)

Trying to change mindest to be more positive helped a lot, and exposure. I tried counseling but it didnt help


----------



## pbanco (Jan 13, 2013)

FormerOptimist said:


> My depression is of biological origin and no amount of therapy can help that. My anxiety disorders are biological as well, but I used self-help CBT to reason my way through panic attacks so I won't freak out in public and disturb those around me. I can reason that there is nothing from which to feel fear, but yet my body feels like it's jumped off the side of a cliff.
> 
> I've seen more therapists than I can count, and have taken more graduate-level counseling courses than I care to admit. Nothing and no one has helped me......only myself. In fact, I was stigmatized and declared unemployable when I did seek help, despite the fact that I've never been hospitalized and am not violent or angry.
> 
> The entire field of psychology is a JOKE. The only ones licensed to practice it are disturbed themselves, even moreso than the rest of us for having gone through demoralizing doctorate programs where they were beat-up on by egomaniacs.


I think most all psychological issues have a biological basis but are caused
by events in our histories. that doesn't mean counseling can't help.
There are maybe hundreds of different forms of therapy, not including medications. They exist because people find them helpful and you can
probably find something helpful also if you keep trying.


----------



## River In The Mountain (Jun 6, 2011)

Hitting a punch bag and screaming abuse at it. Diet change also helped a lot with the biological side of things.


----------



## Implicate (Feb 1, 2011)

Self CBT-medication and therapy have been a sadistic joke for me.


----------



## Relz (Oct 31, 2011)

No. Therapy was an expensive waste of time.

I've tried self-help books but they never seem to be comprehensive enough (SA isn't my only mental issue). A book on SA assumes the reader only has SA; but some things it suggests will be impossible because of depression, OCD, phobias, etc., etc...

Never tried meds because of my fear of swallowing pills--see I have too many problems to be helped.

If you aren't as messed up as I am you might find something that helps.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

I don't want to discourage people who might benefit from therapy but overall I find it to be of little to no use. I will even venture to suggest that psychotherapy might be the biggest fraud perpetrated in human history but that's for another discussion.

Every therapist I've ever seen displayed some degree of abusiveness. The latest one, who is a physician, was probably the best one I've had but even she is disappointing. No doubt biology plays a role but in my case the additional environmental components are huge even though they are complicated. Most of my problems stem from not belonging to a community or a social network and having been trained to be loser by weak outcast parents. For this and other reasons I become acutely aware of social status and am more needy than others of being validated and included. I achieved a few things but also failed at most things that mattered in life and was punished for it socially. With this current 'therapist' it is especially offensive to have her diminish the importance of social inclusion through achievement as though people do not care about social status as much as I claim because SHE HERSELF SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE THAT I AM RIGHT EVERY TIME I SEE HER. She admitted to trying several times to get into med school and tried to pretend it wasn't about social status. Eventually I had her cornered once and she blurted out that she wanted to make more money. She also now tries to claim that money is not connected to status even though way back in the first session she admitted that is part of the pecking order in medicine, a pecking order that rivals that of lawyers in its obsession with status by her own accounts. Moreover, every time I mention something that I have failed at that she has succeeded at I see her face light up because she is in fact, like most people, driven by a need to be validated by having status bestowed upon her, which includes the purported right the look down on and exclude others. She stated that she likes people who are smarter...but what she would not admit to in its full consequence is that that is because, among other things, she wants to view herself as smarter...because she likes to be able to distinguish herself from others by claiming intellectual superiority and very obviously needs that to be granted to her through status achievements. Yet when I attribute my negative mood and view of society to that very issue, and to the fact that my successes have not been allowed to materialize into full status because of coming from a classless position in the first place, she tries to 'cbt' me into operating on the premise that status should not, and for most does not, figure prominently. It really adds insult to injury when the person telling you that is evidence of the opposite. 

I told her that I am now in a different master's program at a less well reputed school and again, I see on her face a look of personal satisfaction as she writes something down. She covets her successes as a means of distinguishing herself from others...such as me in this very situation. Yet she pretends that I can improve my life by believing that people don't operate that way and that happiness is based on other things alone. It's worse than just being a bull****ter because she herself is an example of what the social realities are that lead to my being depressed and bitter. Not only that but the rare times when she is in fact willing to go along with a negative critique of society it is because I use the university I was recently in as an example and she hates that university. She goes along with trashing it and the people who go there simply because she knows that they are the kind of conservative snobs who would never have let her into med school (she went to the 'alternative school' of this jurisdiction and even tries to put down the snobby university's med school). It is so infuriating to watch her prove that my cynicism is right while 'counselling' me with the opposite propositions and instructions. She also has a very obvious bias that because I am half Indian I must be crazy in this way because of casteism...yet she comes from a family in which her father was a doctor...hmm, I wonder whether that has anything to do with her motivation to become a doctor and trying to get in several times??? She is so smug and certain about it yet my dad was raised in a british boarding school from the age of five, went to british universities and was an atheistic marxist so he's not exactly the prime candidate for casteism...unless of course british casteism and the classism I mention as governing most people's lives is what we are talking about. But no, we are very obviously not talking about that because that supposedly doesn't exist. In case she didn't know, there is a word for not having a caste/class in Spanish and in French because it is acknowledged as a social reality that is in fact considered to be a serious tragedy. It really really disturbs me to have to sit there and watch her lie while proving me right...I see more every time I go there that I lost in life because my outsider status makes me more needy, which in turn makes people less likely to accept me, which in turn makes people place higher burdens of performance on me, which in turn leads to concrete failures, which in turn leads to more exclusion, etc etc...and this POS doctor lives her life according to that same principle while pretending otherwise. 

Therapy is...the easiest possible way for someone to make money?? Other than that I don't think it has much value. Most people would get better if they just had a social network that included them such that loyalty and acceptance was unconditional. Most people who don't have that have bad lives. The others compete a bit amongst themselves but they know they are accepted in a clan and support group regardless. They know their network/community/class/caste will always help them keep going and will always buoy their status rather than excluding them and diminishing them, because that group competes against other groups and they are on the team. She herself benefits from belonging and in fact the only reason she can be so ridiculous as to imply unacceptable casteist attitudes to me is because she, unlike myself, is in a de facto caste while I am alone on my knees. It is tiresome and even adds to my mood problems but believe it or not the other therapists have all been even more abusive.


----------



## Sleeper92 (Oct 3, 2010)

only by my parents,i helped or tried helping other people as much as i can


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

To respond to the op, some meds have provided a bit of help but not enough to cure / resolve my situation.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

Further to what I wrote about my therapist, it is also noteworthy that I have numerous things going on in my personal life but when I came in to see her the first thing she asked about was my gf's application to med school...I kid you not. She also can't remember things about my history that have been discussed in previous sessions and takes up time asking the same things every session but oddly she remembered what university my sister went to...because it is a 'prestigious' school.


----------



## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

I feel like everything done to me has brought more harm than good.


----------



## Ronald321 (Feb 12, 2013)

Anxiety is something that most individuals come one way or another of our lives. In other words, anxiety attack is known to be a panic attack. An intense form of body's response to stress, fear or even excitement. You may feel an overpowering sensations such as breathing discomfort, losing out of control, chest pain, nausea, fast heart beat, sudden feeling of fainting and other. But some people have different symptoms, its better if you'll get to control them.

Do not let yourself carry on these emotions or feelings you might felt on it. Actually, there are better solutions to your problems. Anxiety attacks can be controllable and manageable; all you have to do is to follow some of the tips:

In your case then, I highly recommend you to do some counseling and therapies: 
Tip # 1: Engaged yourself in therapy
Therapy such as Aromatherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy and even a massage therapy will basically help you overcome panic attack without the use of medications. 
Tip # 2: A good and healthy diet will preferably do 
One of the simplest ways to mainly overcome panic attack without taking medications, a nutritious diet helps the mind fight off stress and anxiety which are very common in panic attacks. 
Too discover my top secret for how to cure anxiety and panic attack, check out my valuable resourcer below --->

http://curepanicattackv.com


----------



## St1mpak (Dec 11, 2012)

Ryukil said:


> Just wondering.


Exposure, healthy eating, and heavy exercise


----------



## Permanent Pajamas (Feb 20, 2013)

*Prozac*

I was better almost immediately and I dropped 40 pounds.


----------



## brunteca (Jan 17, 2013)

Alcohol and lots of it.


----------



## chris7 (Jan 7, 2013)

ThatOneQuietGuy said:


> Exposure helped me a lot. I often force myself to talk to random strangers and it has gotten to the point that it isn't that difficult anymore.


What do you and said stranger talk about? And how long do these conversations usually last?


----------



## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

chris7 said:


> What do you and said stranger talk about? And how long do these conversations usually last?


It could be as simple as overhearing someone asking what time it is. Just turn around and tell them the time. If you overhear people talking about something that you know about, just politely add something to what they were saying. You will get a positive response from most people.


----------



## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Exposure therapy with the help of SSRI and Benzos has changed my life for the better. It was hard work though, as it will be for anyone to really make progress. I now no longer take any meds either.


----------



## roblox (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't want to talk to someone about my issues, because frankly I don't like to talk to people so therapy is out of the question. Am I supposed to stay on pills for ever? 

In college I studied communications to try to get me out of my comfort zone and force me to do speeches and work with people. It just made my anxiety 100 times worse when I finished and now I feel so screwed. I wish I had the motivation and concentration because I would go back to school and get a stay at home job.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

pbanco said:


> I think most all psychological issues have a biological basis but are caused
> by events in our histories. that doesn't mean counseling can't help.
> There are maybe hundreds of different forms of therapy, not including medications. They exist because people find them helpful and you can
> probably find something helpful also if you keep trying.


I'm not sure you know the extent of my education and my own therapeutic experiences. No one has studied the topic of clinical counseling more than I have. Your optimistic outlook will help you greatly in life.

There is no proof that there is a biological basis for psychological disorders. I was TOLD mine was genetic (I was born with these certain dud genes, supposedly). Again, psychology is NOT based in FACT....only well-studied hypotheses that never result in any conclusive results.

I'm a Christian and we have a theory......that all human beings were created with a hole inside of us that only God can fill. The mass failure of today's head medicine seems to support that.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

roblox said:


> I don't want to talk to someone about my issues, because frankly I don't like to talk to people so therapy is out of the question. Am I supposed to stay on pills for ever?
> 
> In college I studied communications to try to get me out of my comfort zone and force me to do speeches and work with people. It just made my anxiety 100 times worse when I finished and now I feel so screwed. I wish I had the motivation and concentration because I would go back to school and get a stay at home job.


I've had a stay-at-home job (e-commerce) and it was stifling, even for my introverted self. If you have no motivation, working at home as an independent will drive you insane.

I can relate to how you feel about your education. In my undergrad business program, I gave PowerPoint presentations weekly -- my longest was an entire class period (45 minutes). I was operating on adrenaline back then and am very persistent....that's the only way I made it through to graduation.

I actually went and pursued masters degrees in other fields, and couldn't use those degrees either once I finished. I don't believe getting another degree is going to help you much (unless the occupation you're looking at requires a license that requires a degree).

Some people do take pills forever....if they work for you and won't damage you further, then taking them is worth it to improve your quality of life. I'm back to giving the pill-route another try.....started my new regimine last week.

If you can't tell a therapist about your problems, is it possible that you're trying to suppress certain emotions that could be inhibiting you? Maybe if you force yourself to be honest about your situation, and put a voice it, you may improve. It does work for some people -- you can't discount it if you haven't tried it. I had a prideful male friend confide in me once, and he must have really liked the experience because he sort-of became addicted to it......would not shut up for months. lol But dwelling on the negative can be bad to -- you need to find that middle ground of acknowledging the problem, accepting the problem, then moving on from the problem. Good luck!


----------



## roblox (Jan 22, 2013)

FormerOptimist said:


> I've had a stay-at-home job (e-commerce) and it was stifling, even for my introverted self. If you have no motivation, working at home as an independent will drive you insane.


You're absolutely right, I've thought about that a lot too. Especially with my fatigue and trouble concentrating maybe that wouldn't be the best route. Hopefully some day something will come about that I like to do.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

Before this physician I had seen a psychologist briefly. She was no better. It was obvious that she does not really want her patients to do well in life because then she would lose her position of superiority. When she read a previous report I had had done about me from another psychologist I could see that as she read over the parts that were flattering about me she grew nervous and started breathing harder, even shaking the pages a bit because her hands were trembling...seriously! Then she calmed down and nodded her head patronizingly when she got to the parts about my weaknesses...like she is nice and is going to help me...but that's not really what was going on. She likes having vulnerable people come to her on their knees because it makes her feel superior. That is why when she read certain things about me that were flattering it made her nervous. I also noticed a very visible reaction when I mentioned plans that included possible goals that would place me on her level again in terms of social status. Her face suddenly shifted in appearance: at first stunned by a loss of smug confidence and then trying to remain neutral but conspicuous its effort to do so. The only reason she reacted that way is because she liked seeing someone on their knees and pretending she might help them up...so long as they don't really get up completely, especially if that would mean they would then be doing as well as she is.

It's dirty.


----------



## roblox (Jan 22, 2013)

bent said:


> Before this physician I had seen a psychologist briefly. She was no better. It was obvious that she does not really want her patients to do well in life because then she would lose her position of superiority. When she read a previous report I had had done about me from another psychologist I could see that as she read over the parts that were flattering about me she grew nervous and started breathing harder, even shaking the pages a bit because her hands were trembling...seriously! Then she calmed down and nodded her head patronizingly when she got to the parts about my weaknesses...like she is nice and is going to help me...but that's not really what was going on. She likes having vulnerable people come to her on their knees because it makes her feel superior. That is why when she read certain things about me that were flattering it made her nervous. I also noticed a very visible reaction when I mentioned plans that included possible goals that would place me on her level again in terms of social status. Her face suddenly shifted in appearance: at first stunned by a loss of smug confidence and then trying to remain neutral but conspicuous its effort to do so. The only reason she reacted that way is because she liked seeing someone on their knees and pretending she might help them up...so long as they don't really get up completely, especially if that would mean they would then be doing as well as she is.
> 
> It's dirty.


It's funny because they probably have more issues then us, but they're to good to realize it.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

Reading the book 'The Divided Self' by RD Laing.

Reading that book was a bolt from the blue, and explained everything I had ever experienced in my life with regard to my condition, but could never understand until that point. I fully understood what was wrong with me, and why - though it doesn't solve it, but it does IDENTIFY what is wrong and where it is coming from, the process and mechanism by which it develops.

Others of his books are excellent also, eg Self and Others, and Sanity, Madness and the Family.

Another book that I found helpful was Colin A Ross 'Trauma Model Therapy'.

Never been in therapy, never took a pill. Reading other posts on here, I can just totally sympathize with the disappointment some people have experienced with therapy.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

bent said:


> I don't want to discourage people who might benefit from therapy but overall I find it to be of little to no use. I will even venture to suggest that psychotherapy might be the biggest fraud perpetrated in human history but that's for another discussion.


I think you could be right there, though some therapists like Colin A Ross are different and good.

It sounds like you have analyzed your therapists even more than they have analyzed you - perhaps you should bill them. I think you are just seeing the fundamental laws of human life - the academic success game, the social success game. And I sense you have not come up to scratch in either of these. You should not attempt to compete where you have little chance of success. I sense you have been forced into academic study and career, probably from a young age, but its not really for you. You have to channel your energies elsewhere, otherwise you're wasting your life.

There are some people you just cannot beat - just walk away - with your head held high.

All this academic competitiveness and snobbery leads only to evil things - it has even caused murders to be committed.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Yes, meds and CBT as I go.


----------



## sadcat (Jan 2, 2013)

Self-help books, good eating, and consistent exercise have helped me more than anything pharmaceutical ever did. I've been through a half dozen psychotherapists, as well as more medications that I know what to do with. I still have a mountain of benzos in my closet, gathering dust.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

starburst said:


> I think you could be right there, though some therapists like Colin A Ross are different and good.
> 
> It sounds like you have analyzed your therapists even more than they have analyzed you - perhaps you should bill them. I think you are just seeing the fundamental laws of human life - the academic success game, the social success game. And I sense you have not come up to scratch in either of these. You should not attempt to compete where you have little chance of success. I sense you have been forced into academic study and career, probably from a young age, but its not really for you. You have to channel your energies elsewhere, otherwise you're wasting your life.
> 
> ...


I think you are correct about my life and about academia. In my case, I was in a program I didn't like and wanted to get into a different program but I did not have a bachelors degree in that subject so it was a tall order. I took grad courses in that dept in case they might have been helpful about my goal but they were not helpful at all and even wanted to impose unusual burdens on me in order to take advantage of the fact that I was an outsider who wanted to get in. They were not even forthcoming about ultimately helping with my goal if I tried to appease them, just rude and opportunistic in typically slippery academic ways. There was even some political bias that was really obvious but in their incredible arrogance, an arrogance that society allows them to have in their mentally ill bubble, they simply weren't able to bring themselves to confront their own hypocrisy. It was a program I had a personal interest in but it turned out that half the people in it were doing it to prepare for a different, more difficult and competitive degree that I already have. There is some pathetic competitiveness between these two fields for reasons I won't go into so I am sure that also played a role in the reception I got.

But what really bothers me is that even though these facts are available to the physician, I am sure she allowed herself to construct a different version of reality that flattered her and made her feel more validated by ostensibly placing me beneath her. She is not the competition...although infuriatingly she probably thinks she is. It is more acute with her because she went to a really bad medical school that is known for being the 'alternative med school' and she is obviously insecure about it. So you have two similarly insecure people in a room and one of them is billing for what amounts to lying while surreptitiously aggravating the other's insecurity and social problems in order to alleviate her own insecurity...downright satanic. And yes, I agree with you that these dynamics should be considered a serious and unacceptable form of mental illness that have indeed led to murder. But instead she bills, I am supposed to thank her and if I were to complain to her face it would probably only make her feel better because she would enjoy, in addition to being able to medicalize my complaints with impunity, just being in a socially perceived position of power over me regardless of how egregiously abused and unmerited it really is. Now I am in another master's program in the faculty I had already gotten a degree in long ago but it is at another school that is obviously not as well ranked as the one I just left voluntarily. She likes this because before finally getting into a crappy med school she studied the subject I just walked away from, so she probably tells herself she did something superior and it makes her feel good by supposedly being above me...this is my therapist...can you imagine???


----------



## Sagacious (Jun 29, 2010)

Only from temporarily believing that things were suddenly better.. or going to be better, but that came to a halt quickly. I can't pretend to be confident and positive when everything just feels the complete opposite.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

roblox said:


> You're absolutely right, I've thought about that a lot too. Especially with my fatigue and trouble concentrating maybe that wouldn't be the best route. Hopefully some day something will come about that I like to do.


Me personally, I've given up on finding work that I "like" to do and would be satisfied to settle for something that I "can" do. I don't know many people who actually like their jobs.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

bent said:


> Before this physician I had seen a psychologist briefly. She was no better. It was obvious that she does not really want her patients to do well in life because then she would lose her position of superiority. When she read a previous report I had had done about me from another psychologist I could see that as she read over the parts that were flattering about me she grew nervous and started breathing harder, even shaking the pages a bit because her hands were trembling...seriously! Then she calmed down and nodded her head patronizingly when she got to the parts about my weaknesses...like she is nice and is going to help me...but that's not really what was going on. She likes having vulnerable people come to her on their knees because it makes her feel superior. That is why when she read certain things about me that were flattering it made her nervous. I also noticed a very visible reaction when I mentioned plans that included possible goals that would place me on her level again in terms of social status. Her face suddenly shifted in appearance: at first stunned by a loss of smug confidence and then trying to remain neutral but conspicuous its effort to do so. The only reason she reacted that way is because she liked seeing someone on their knees and pretending she might help them up...so long as they don't really get up completely, especially if that would mean they would then be doing as well as she is.
> 
> It's dirty.


YES, I have witnessed this same situation myself! Shrinks and therapists with their own bus-load of baggage cannot deal with a patient who seems more together than they are. I know exactly what you are talking about.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

Sagacious said:


> Only from temporarily believing that things were suddenly better.. or going to be better, but that came to a halt quickly. I can't pretend to be confident and positive when everything just feels the complete opposite.


I'm a bad actor as well, and the adult world is all about being able to wear masks appropriately. I sometimes wonder if I should fall somewhere on the autism spectrum......I'm too literal, too ethical, and too grounded in actual reality for my own good.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

FormerOptimist said:


> Me personally, I've given up on finding work that I "like" to do and would be satisfied to settle for something that I "can" do. I don't know many people who actually like their jobs.


You are REALISTIC - so many people are just wasting time looking for the ideal career or job


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

starburst said:


> OMG don't change! God absolutely loves you!


Thanks. I do know God loves me (as He does ALL of us), but He isn't in any human resource departments handling hiring here in the U.S., and He doesn't keep my lights on or buy my groceries.


----------



## won (Nov 8, 2012)

Therapy helped a bit


----------



## pbanco (Jan 13, 2013)

FormerOptimist said:


> I'm not sure you know the extent of my education and my own therapeutic experiences. No one has studied the topic of clinical counseling more than I have. Your optimistic outlook will help you greatly in life.
> 
> There is no proof that there is a biological basis for psychological disorders. I was TOLD mine was genetic (I was born with these certain dud genes, supposedly). Again, psychology is NOT based in FACT....only well-studied hypotheses that never result in any conclusive results.
> 
> I'm a Christian and we have a theory......that all human beings were created with a hole inside of us that only God can fill. The mass failure of today's head medicine seems to support that.


I think there is a lot of evidence, not quite proof, of a biological
basis for psychological disorders. I have respect for all of
your knowledge gained through studying clinical counseling.
I am sure you know from your studies that their are numerous
approaches and theories. What I have noticed is that on this
website the information here is not a good representation of
all the approaches available. With your studies of clinical 
counseling, what was emphasized?
What I have learned comes from a lot of self studying and therapy experiences. I work in healthcare and that's what I studied in college.
Some of my optimism comes from the changes brought about by therapy.
You say that psychology is not based on fact, only well studied hypotheses. This is true, and there are important
hypotheses and areas of knowledge not well covered in schools.


----------



## ak3891 (May 15, 2012)

Diet!


----------



## Alloy (Jul 19, 2012)

Meditation helps me sleep better and I was notorious for tossing and turning at night worrying about past, present, and future. 

Nothing has worked to alleviate the actual condition.


----------



## Pam (Feb 14, 2009)

Lots of books have helped me. One that comes to mind is the chapter on being addicted to approval in Feeling Good by David something....can't remember. But it put an end to my suicidal feeling I'd had for 25 yrs.

I'm about to order the book Trauma Model Therapy by Colin Ross (as mentioned above by stardust)

I do inner child work (writing in diary form to process old stuck feelings around traumatic events from childhood) Self-taught, not with therapist.

Talking to people on SAS, Facebook, YouTube, etc. has really helped me.

That's all I can remember right now. Therapy--not that much.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

Pam said:


> I'm about to order the book Trauma Model Therapy by Colin Ross (as mentioned above by stardust)


I hope you enjoy it ! I certainly gained many good insights from reading this book. It is a professional therapists training manual but written in a style accessible to the lay reader.

He has also written 'The Great Psychiatry Scam', which I've not read yet - but sounds very interesting!

Guitar sounds quite good! Keep at it!


----------



## hipolito (Sep 25, 2012)

bent said:


> Therapy is...the easiest possible way for someone to make money?? Other than that I don't think it has much value. Most people would get better if they just had a social network that included them such that loyalty and acceptance was unconditional. Most people who don't have that have bad lives. The others compete a bit amongst themselves but they know they are accepted in a clan and support group regardless. They know their network/community/class/caste will always help them keep going and will always buoy their status rather than excluding them and diminishing them, because that group competes against other groups and they are on the team. She herself benefits from belonging and in fact the only reason she can be so ridiculous as to imply unacceptable casteist attitudes to me is because she, unlike myself, is in a de facto caste while I am alone on my knees. It is tiresome and even adds to my mood problems but believe it or not the other therapists have all been even more abusive.


sometimes I wish they would begin a project for android therapists - like the Emergency Medical Hologram from Star Trek. ones that contain every terabyte of information there is on psychology & bedside manner, and nothing else. but then I think, there's nothing like human sympathy. But if i had to choose one over the other it would be the android.

After talking to a few depressives who crave support, i realize that everyone is really _not _entitled to a support network. They want to put in no work into becoming better but they want to be loved, and I'm not even sure if they plan on changing. They want unconditional love. but you have to present yourself, and be a team player for whatever support network you join. It's tough when you've grown into a position where you're a learned pessimist (I'm a learned pessimist) but i never walk up to anybody thinking I command their support just because I'm a decent human being.
i'm not even saying this because this is the harsh reality (it is) but I honestly don't think someone deserves it until they're willing to own up. But I'm not saying everyone who owns up is successful. and sometimes owning up is the elusive goal itself.


----------



## IdontMind (Dec 31, 2011)

I believe exposure at a moderate rate is that best way to cure SA. Prove to yourself that the situations you fear the most aren't that bad.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

Re Hipolito,

The problem is that most learned pessimists are so for valid reasons. They did have things worse than other people when all factors are examined together and they did have greater burdens imposed upon them than most people who are optimists had to contend with. I'm not talking about the exceptions to the rule who are always brought up anecdotally as though that is evidence of the pessimists' moral delinquency. I'm talking about the normal response that most people would have to a bad set of circumstances. Now when those people go to therapy if the therapists tries to operate on the faulty premise that their pessimism is based on illegitimate interpretations of reality and illegitimate reactions, then it won't work. Essentially most of the therapy boils down to faking it till you make it except you aren't supposed to admit that you're faking it. Because it's hard to fake it for a lot of people and it becomes extremely unlikely for anyone after a certain length of time with cumulative negative experiences. So now where does therapy come in? How can it address that fact that you will continue to have a bad life while supposedly correcting your pessimism? The patient has good reason to be pessimistic and cannot invent real optimism out of nothing. Only luck and pills can help and pills barely do.

As for support networks, I think one of the ways they work is precisely that if you aren't in a position to be optimistic and therefore generally desirable to be associated with, you still get some sympathy and some loyal support so that it doesn't become a downward cycle, so that something external is offered to assist you in your state of weakness and bad luck. It's not just that your chances of falling past a socially acceptable point are lower in the first place, its also that if you do fall past it the people in the network are still going to help you and might even understand your situation rather than looking at it with coldness the way they might at a stranger.

But if you aren't in a network what will you do? The truth is there is nothing you can do. You would somehow need to compensate for your situation and if you are not able to, which is probably the case if you are already depressed, anxious and socially odd, then you can only hope for a lucky break. Pretending that you should and can be optimistic is nonsensical. It would not correspond to anything to do with your life so optimism would require a much more radical intervention than talking about how the glass is half full. There is nothing for the pessimists to own up to other than having made the mistake of being aware of their situation without having the resources to correct it.


----------



## hipolito (Sep 25, 2012)

bent said:


> Re Hipolito,
> 
> The problem is that most learned pessimists are so for valid reasons. They did have things worse than other people when all factors are examined together and they did have greater burdens imposed upon them than most people who are optimists had to contend with. I'm not talking about the exceptions to the rule who are always brought up anecdotally as though that is evidence of the pessimists' moral delinquency. I'm talking about the normal response that most people would have to a bad set of circumstances. Now when those people go to therapy if the therapists tries to operate on the faulty premise that their pessimism is based on illegitimate interpretations of reality and illegitimate reactions, then it won't work. Essentially most of the therapy boils down to faking it till you make it except you aren't supposed to admit that you're faking it. Because it's hard to fake it for a lot of people and it becomes extremely unlikely for anyone after a certain length of time with cumulative negative experiences. So now where does therapy come in? How can it address that fact that you will continue to have a bad life while supposedly correcting your pessimism? The patient has good reason to be pessimistic and cannot invent real optimism out of nothing. Only luck and pills can help and pills barely do.
> 
> ...


aw man, I'm sorry. you know, I've agreed with what you just said for as long as I can remember, and for good reason (the ones that you named) but my rant was about a certain type of people. I have a person in mind that was given unconditional support, and they do appreciate it, but all they want to do is sit tight and drink it all up. Some people think they're entitled to that too. they think it is their right to sit still and drink up people's support and if the other person realizes how futile it is they will feel indignant and think of them as a terrible person. Once you're given the backing, you're supposed to get up and give it a shot, not just get used to it. That's where the learned helplessness comes into play. The type of person who gets used to anything. I understand if it's more realistic & adaptive for you to get used to misery, but why get used to it when you don't have to? The only difference for them is that they have someone to whine to. Even if the change is as simple as a change in mindset, that's all the support network asks of you. It is wrong to drink up support.
Btw none of this is directed at you


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

bent said:


> Re Hipolito,
> 
> The problem is that most learned pessimists are so for valid reasons. They did have things worse than other people when all factors are examined together and they did have greater burdens imposed upon them than most people who are optimists had to contend with. I'm not talking about the exceptions to the rule who are always brought up anecdotally as though that is evidence of the pessimists' moral delinquency. I'm talking about the normal response that most people would have to a bad set of circumstances. Now when those people go to therapy if the therapists tries to operate on the faulty premise that their pessimism is based on illegitimate interpretations of reality and illegitimate reactions, then it won't work. Essentially most of the therapy boils down to faking it till you make it except you aren't supposed to admit that you're faking it. Because it's hard to fake it for a lot of people and it becomes extremely unlikely for anyone after a certain length of time with cumulative negative experiences. So now where does therapy come in? How can it address that fact that you will continue to have a bad life while supposedly correcting your pessimism? The patient has good reason to be pessimistic and cannot invent real optimism out of nothing. Only luck and pills can help and pills barely do.
> 
> ...


Bent, I want to say that this post is the most intelligent, enlightened post I have ever read on any forum. You hit the nail on the head as far as my personal situation goes. I do not have the linguistic ability to word my situation as eloquently as you can. It's very moving to know that someone out there actually understands how optimism can be lost amongst those with mental issues who have tried and tried and tried to correct or better manage their plight, only to have experienced nothing but failure after failure -- it is quite exhausting to deal with.

I have had to accept my situation fully (and ignore those who patronize me) in order to have peace in my life. Living for the next treatment miracle that never comes caused me so much angst, I was suicidal. Sometimes we have to accept the role that God gave us on this earth and do the best with what we have.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

hipolito said:


> aw man, I'm sorry. you know, I've agreed with what you just said for as long as I can remember, and for good reason (the ones that you named) but my rant was about a certain type of people. I have a person in mind that was given unconditional support, and they do appreciate it, but all they want to do is sit tight and drink it all up. Some people think they're entitled to that too. they think it is their right to sit still and drink up people's support and if the other person realizes how futile it is they will feel indignant and think of them as a terrible person. Once you're given the backing, you're supposed to get up and give it a shot, not just get used to it. That's where the learned helplessness comes into play. The type of person who gets used to anything. I understand if it's more realistic & adaptive for you to get used to misery, but why get used to it when you don't have to? The only difference for them is that they have someone to whine to. Even if the change is as simple as a change in mindset, that's all the support network asks of you. It is wrong to drink up support.
> Btw none of this is directed at you


You're assuming that receiving support from others is a cure-all for mental issues. If that were the case, none of us would be mental. The metally ill do not "drink-up" support or "learn helplessness" -- they are not able to process and use support from others the same way that neurologically healthy people can. Your response it typical of the ignorance that exists in society regarding the conditions of the mentally ill.


----------



## hipolito (Sep 25, 2012)

FormerOptimist said:


> You're assuming that receiving support from others is a cure-all for mental issues. If that were the case, none of us would be mental. The metally ill do not "drink-up" support or "learn helplessness" -- they are not able to process and use support from others the same way that neurologically healthy people can. Your response it typical of the ignorance that exists in society regarding the conditions of the mentally ill.


no I'm not making that assumption!
we were talking about support networks alone. If you crave one, you probably have an idea of why. When you get one, at least _try _to use it in the way that you imagined. you probably won't be able to spot where I said that this will happen immediately, but there's a difference between being unsuccessful and not trying. plus, there's lots of types of mental illnesses ... I'm talking about those with SA alone (i thought that was the assumption?)


----------



## pbanco (Jan 13, 2013)

bent said:


> Re Hipolito,
> 
> The problem is that most learned pessimists are so for valid reasons. They did have things worse than other people when all factors are examined together and they did have greater burdens imposed upon them than most people who are optimists had to contend with. I'm not talking about the exceptions to the rule who are always brought up anecdotally as though that is evidence of the pessimists' moral delinquency. I'm talking about the normal response that most people would have to a bad set of circumstances. Now when those people go to therapy if the therapists tries to operate on the faulty premise that their pessimism is based on illegitimate interpretations of reality and illegitimate reactions, then it won't work. Essentially most of the therapy boils down to faking it till you make it except you aren't supposed to admit that you're faking it. Because it's hard to fake it for a lot of people and it becomes extremely unlikely for anyone after a certain length of time with cumulative negative experiences. So now where does therapy come in? How can it address that fact that you will continue to have a bad life while supposedly correcting your pessimism? The patient has good reason to be pessimistic and cannot invent real optimism out of nothing. Only luck and pills can help and pills barely do.
> 
> ...


Much of what you say here seems based on CBT where the therapist
is trying to get you to change your thought patterns. 
But I think pessimism often springs from something internal. Trying to change thoughts won't touch the source feelings from which the 
thoughts arise. Sometimes the pessimism is actually 
creating the circumstances, not the other way around. What I mean is that there is a pessimistic personality and a feeling based therapy can 
help with that. Once some of the real source of the pessimism is
healed, the person feels enabled to make life changes.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

^^ pbanco: is there any evidence that it works? if so I would try it, although I would still have to deal with the valid reasons for pessimism which are compounded by social realities as well as finding a therapist who wasn't billing while making themselves feel better by surreptitiously placing themselves above me and thereby indirectly putting me down.

Re FormerOptimist: thanks for the compliment, I'm glad if my post helped someone clarify their own similar frustrations. Often it is exactly that kind of advantage that a network offers: similar ideas and opinions fleshed out in efficient and time tested scripts are available to those in the network in order for them to make their case more easily.

Re: Hipolita: thanks for clarifying where you were coming from. I think a lot of people who don't make as much use of available networks have secondary disorders beyond SA but even just having a lot of anxiety would require a lot of support. I myself have felt bad in the past because I saw that a few people made slight efforts to help me in minor ways and I was unable to capitalize on it. It might have looked as though I wasn't trying but in fact it was just too little too late and it was coming from strangers.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

hipolito said:


> After talking to a few depressives who crave support, i realize that everyone is really _not _entitled to a support network. They want to put in no work into becoming better but they want to be loved, and I'm not even sure if they plan on changing. They want unconditional love. but you have to present yourself, and be a team player for whatever support network you join.





hipolito said:


> I have a person in mind that was given unconditional support, and they do appreciate it, but all they want to do is sit tight and drink it all up. Some people think they're entitled to that too. they think it is their right to sit still and drink up people's support
> 
> Once you're given the backing, you're supposed to get up and give it a shot, not just get used to it.
> 
> It is wrong to drink up support.


@hipolito: This is a quite important point you are making, and one easily missed or totally misunderstood. Getting 'used to' something or someone is a mistake all too easily made, and usually it is made without even realising it. It is one of those things that requires a kind of 'third eye' to see yourself as others see you. When we get an opportunity and someone offers to help us, or give us a chance, or we get access to a support network, what we should do is to grab the ball and run with it - it really is a team player effort that is needed. Part of dealing with mental illnesses is to restore the person's sense of self-responsibility, ie they have to consider just how their own actions affect others. Its only by doing this that relationships can work.



FormerOptimist said:


> The metally ill do not "drink-up" support or "learn helplessness" -- they are not able to process and use support from others the same way that neurologically healthy people can.


That is correct - they are simply unaware of the fundamental rules of relationships, and somehow they need to learn all over again from scratch. Its understandable that people suffering from mental illness may be drowned in self-pity due to terrible experiences they have had in the past, but nonetheless they need to somehow learn how to do things a better way, and give themselves a chance of integrating and living a better quality of life.


----------



## tobi08 (Dec 29, 2008)

meditation helps me. Mindfullness and relaxation sessions help me. I use thinkrightnow cds and they help to some extend, keeping me more positive.


----------



## pbanco (Jan 13, 2013)

bent said:


> ^^ pbanco: is there any evidence that it works? if so I would try it, although I would still have to deal with the valid reasons for pessimism which are compounded by social realities as well as finding a therapist who wasn't billing while making themselves feel better by surreptitiously placing themselves above me and thereby indirectly putting me down.
> 
> Re FormerOptimist: thanks for the compliment, I'm glad if my post helped someone clarify their own similar frustrations. Often it is exactly that kind of advantage that a network offers: similar ideas and opinions fleshed out in efficient and time tested scripts are available to those in the network in order for them to make their case more easily.
> 
> Re: Hipolita: thanks for clarifying where you were coming from. I think a lot of people who don't make as much use of available networks have secondary disorders beyond SA but even just having a lot of anxiety would require a lot of support. I myself have felt bad in the past because I saw that a few people made slight efforts to help me in minor ways and I was unable to capitalize on it. It might have looked as though I wasn't trying but in fact it was just too little too late and it was coming from strangers.


 Bent: There is evidence that it works, and it works for me.
Yes, there can be valid reasons for some pessimism but a lot of
those things should be passing feelings rather than something
continual. I think most of us here realize that various disorders
like depression can be tied in with SA. After I got some relief
from SA, that helped with my depression and other things.
That didn't happen over night.


----------



## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

bent said:


> ^^ pbanco: is there any evidence that it works? if so I would try it, although I would still have to deal with the valid reasons for pessimism which are compounded by social realities as well as finding a therapist who wasn't billing while making themselves feel better by surreptitiously placing themselves above me and thereby indirectly putting me down.
> 
> Re FormerOptimist: thanks for the compliment, I'm glad if my post helped someone clarify their own similar frustrations. Often it is exactly that kind of advantage that a network offers: similar ideas and opinions fleshed out in efficient and time tested scripts are available to those in the network in order for them to make their case more easily.
> 
> Re: Hipolita: thanks for clarifying where you were coming from. I think a lot of people who don't make as much use of available networks have secondary disorders beyond SA but even just having a lot of anxiety would require a lot of support. I myself have felt bad in the past because I saw that a few people made slight efforts to help me in minor ways and I was unable to capitalize on it. It might have looked as though I wasn't trying but in fact it was just too little too late and it was coming from strangers.


Bent, I think you're focusing too much attention on social status and perceptions of your therapists interactions and reactions to you. Maybe those things you've listed are true and are what are occurring, but certainly social status and family upbringing aren't the only possible contributors to social anxiety. There are other things that are worth paying attention to. That you have more control over that can hopefully lead to a reduction in symptoms.

My own experience, and I'll put it as honestly as I can. CBT did not really help me. I did exposure therapy for about 6 months, where we actually did do structured exposures each lasting for a little over an hour. Public presentations, interviews, going out in public and interacting with strangers, going to clubs. Etc. Etc. The anxiety would come down after an hour or so of a panic attack, but the effects didn't really generalize outside of that setting. In the next few days I would still have similar levels of anxiety in social situations and didn't really make much progress other than lowering the barrier and threshold of my avoidance. I.E. I was more likely to expose myself to situations just based off my earlier experiences with being able to withstand horrible horrible panic attacks. And I kind of can see how research is biased in psychology, because they had me do the same tests over and over to track my "progress" and really I just self selected scores to be lower because I wanted to believe so much that I was actually getting better when in actuality I really wasn't. Was it completely useless? No, there were some helpful things it did for my social anxiety. But at the end of the day I still could not function on a basic social level in a social setting due to immense anxiety.

Medications didn't help at all. I did a few SSRIs, they helped with OCD, but not really social anxiety. Xanax was useful for presentations, but I only took them for acute things like that. I don't know if taking them as a daily medication would work or not, but I never wanted to try. Also it was inconsistent for presentations, sometimes it would work sometimes it wouldn't. Propanolol didn't really help either, although it kind of made social interactions a little bit more bearable.

I never gave nardil a serious go as that medication is kinda serious. Some people I hear have had nardil give them SA free life. But man, that's some scary **** lol. I have other health issues that I think preclude me from nardil.

For the past few months I've been doing psychodynamic therapy, although we haven't really gone into orthodox past experiences or anything like that. I feel I've made the most improvements so far in this type of therapy setting, because I'm able to speak my feelings and mind as I want. I can't really explain it, but I feel like things I didn't realize I was missing in my socializing with others are starting to come to light. I realize that social situations are really about just being able to access your feelings, needs, and desires, and to be able to express those things. It's been baby steps but I've noticed significant improvements in my ability to socialize just by being given an environment where I can express my feelings safely.

Some of the changes I've observed is that I've been able to confront people, that I've been able to do small public presentations with minimal anxiety, and that I've been able to access my own base personality and have reactive feelings in social situations that guide me to participate. I still get situations where my physical mind-body symptoms dominate, but I've been able to do things like go out on dates that I wouldn't have been able to do in the past.

I would suggest psychodynamic over CBT, just based off my experience.

With an emphasis on finding a therapist who you feel safe with and can connect in common goals for yourself.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

jangle1 said:


> Bent, I think you're focusing too much attention on social status and perceptions of your therapists interactions and reactions to you. Maybe those things you've listed are true and are what are occurring, but certainly social status and family upbringing aren't the only possible contributors to social anxiety. There are other things that are worth paying attention to. That you have more control over that can hopefully lead to a reduction in symptoms.
> 
> My own experience, and I'll put it as honestly as I can. CBT did not really help me. I did exposure therapy for about 6 months, where we actually did do structured exposures each lasting for a little over an hour. Public presentations, interviews, going out in public and interacting with strangers, going to clubs. Etc. Etc. The anxiety would come down after an hour or so of a panic attack, but the effects didn't really generalize outside of that setting. In the next few days I would still have similar levels of anxiety in social situations and didn't really make much progress other than lowering the barrier and threshold of my avoidance. I.E. I was more likely to expose myself to situations just based off my earlier experiences with being able to withstand horrible horrible panic attacks. And I kind of can see how research is biased in psychology, because they had me do the same tests over and over to track my "progress" and really I just self selected scores to be lower because I wanted to believe so much that I was actually getting better when in actuality I really wasn't. Was it completely useless? No, there were some helpful things it did for my social anxiety. But at the end of the day I still could not function on a basic social level in a social setting due to immense anxiety.
> 
> ...


So far, Bent is the only person with an accurate insight into how things really are in the counseling "profession." Having gone through a master's in counseling program myself, I feel the need to reply to jangle1's comment.
I like the way jangle expressed how CBT did NOT work for him, then went on to promote psychodynamic models. There have been numerous studies just within the past 5 years which has shown that the old end-all-be-all CBT is of no benefit without medication; and even with medication, the results are nil or temporary at best.
Although I may be wrong, Jangle1's comment smacks of a counselor trying to promote their own method of therapy (since it's just a matter of time before the public realizes that this CBT mess is nonsense), so I am here to explain and clear up the psychodynamic therapy approaches.
Firstly, out of 8 counseling textbooks, only 1 even mentioned the psychodynamic models in the subject index, and it was my family therapy textbook because psychodynamic models are primarily used with families. Psychodynamics focuses on the relationship held between 2 specific people (mother-daughter; father-daughter; employee-boss; etc) and does not utilize methods for treating general social anxiety.
*"Psychodynamic models emphasize insight, motivation, unconcious conflict, early infant-caregiver attachments, unconscious intrapsychic object relations, and, more recently, actual relationships and their impact on inner experience"* (Goldenberg & Goldenberg, 2013, p. 167).
Pay careful attention to the criteria in the above definition. If you know yourself, know what motivates you, know what you want, are aware of how your family and parents have impacted your emotional life, and realize how you respond to people and circumstances in your external environment, then psychodynamic therapies will be of no use to you.
Freud (a real nutjob, IMHO) believed in drive motivation (everything we do is based on sex), the unconscious, and disregarded the social realm completely. Adler looked at the whole person and realized the importance of peer groups in forming one's self. Fairbairn believed that "the basic human drive is to relate to outside objects, and those objects inevitably are people" (Goldenberg & Goldenberg, 2013, pp. 173, 183). All of the opinions of the professionals who developed psychodynamic concepts disregard those of us who do not actually desire close relationships outside of our circle.
Adler's approach makes the most logical sense to me - we can all see how bullying is detrimental to growing children, so there is support for Adler's psychodynamic theories. Here are the techniques used in Alderian-based psychodynamic therapy:
*1. Family constellation:* Information is obtained about birth order, siblings, relationships between parents, family climate, physical conditions, academic achievement, etc.
*2. Early recollections:* Each member is asked to share 8 memories from early childhood, each of which is analyzed according to theme and developmental maturity.
*3. Typical day:* Family members are each asked to describe in detail events in a complete typical day.
*4. Encouragement:* Techniques are used to convey respect and equality among family members.
*5. Paradoxical intention:* The therapist assigns the presenting problem or symptom as a homework assignment.
*6. Family council:* Family meetings are held on a regular basis in which all members participate in the discussion of issues. Each person's views are taken into consideration.
*7. Use of logical consequences:* Parents are taught how to use natural and logical consequences with their children without arguing or criticizing them.
*8. Confrontation:* Therapist points out mistaken personal logic (Goldenberg & Goldenberg, 2013, p. 172).
As you can see, the above techniques were designed for family therapy, but can be spun for individual therapy. For those of us hitting 40 who have spent the better part of 25 years analyzing the "whys" of life, ouselves, and our situations; we can't learn anything new from this new spun version of psychodynamic therapy.
I have much more comprehensive information on CBT than any other therapy, and plan to post about it in detail (specifically the techniques used in therapy) when I am feeling a little better. If you can muster up the motivation to make it into a counselor's office for therapy, then you have all you need to pursue self-therapy if you have the right information. No counselor or therapist out there can make things better - that has to come from inside each person.
The greatest gift a person can do for themselves is to discover a purpose for being on this planet and pursue that purpose. If you can't discover a purpose, then make one. You can be loved unconditionally by someone or many people, but without a sense of purpose, one will never find contentment.
Reference
Goldenberg, H., & Goldenberg, I. (2013). _Family therapy: An overview _(8th ed.). Belmont, CA: Brooks/Cole.


----------



## changeme77 (Feb 22, 2013)

An introspective LSD trip helped me the most. Currently I am doing CBT therapy.


----------



## FormerOptimist (Feb 15, 2013)

pbanco said:


> Bent: There is evidence that it works, and it works for me.
> Yes, there can be valid reasons for some pessimism but a lot of
> those things should be passing feelings rather than something
> continual. I think most of us here realize that various disorders
> ...


How did you go about getting "relief from SA" while having depression? Sometimes I believe people confuse a sour mood with depression but they are two different beasts. Regardless, what steps did you take to get relief from SA?


----------



## jangle1 (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm advocating for psychodynamic based off my experience. Although I use the term psychodynamic loosely as I stated in my original post we haven't really done any of the typical stuff one would think of in psychodynamic type therapy.

Mostly my therapy has been just being able to communicate freely and openly about my feelings and reframing how I've come to approach social situations. This is where I've made my progress and that's what I'm advocating others might find helpful as well. To find a therapy or therapist that they can establish a good relationship with. The actual labeling of the therapy is less important or even insignificant.


----------



## pbanco (Jan 13, 2013)

FormerOptimist said:


> How did you go about getting "relief from SA" while having depression? Sometimes I believe people confuse a sour mood with depression but they are two different beasts. Regardless, what steps did you take to get relief from SA?


The relief I got from SA was from feeling based therapy (primal therapy). 
Feeling expression; a lot of crying and anger etc, which eventually connect
with childhood memories, (an extreme summary of how it works).
I think both SA and depression is the result of repressed feelings; at least for me that was true. Also, some social success after relief found through therapy helped with my depression, and the positive feeling from realizing the therapy was working. 
I might feel "down" sometimes but no longer experience depression and my SA problem, which was severe, is a thing of the past.
Primal therapy is also a tool I can use when difficult life events occur, as it is
an on-going process.


----------



## SASsier (Apr 9, 2010)

bent said:


> I don't want to discourage people who might benefit from therapy but overall I find it to be of little to no use. I will even venture to suggest that psychotherapy might be the biggest fraud perpetrated in human history but that's for another discussion.
> 
> Every therapist I've ever seen displayed some degree of abusiveness. The latest one, who is a physician, was probably the best one I've had but even she is disappointing. No doubt biology plays a role but in my case the additional environmental components are huge even though they are complicated. Most of my problems stem from not belonging to a community or a social network and having been trained to be loser by weak outcast parents. For this and other reasons I become acutely aware of social status and am more needy than others of being validated and included. I achieved a few things but also failed at most things that mattered in life and was punished for it socially.


I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS POST. Every therapist I've had has been ABUSIVE, too. You are totally right that for many of us, our problems come from not belonging to a community or social network.

My problems all come from being grossly STIGMATIZED and REJECTED by society - all because of my shy outward demeanor. People completely disregard all that is good about me. They just reject me because they don't get me and they look down on me - and it's only what they see on the outside! Society is extremely superficial and judgmental. We live in a sad, sad world.


----------



## SASsier (Apr 9, 2010)

minimized said:


> I feel like everything done to me has brought more harm than good.


Yes, that's true in my case, too.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

SASsier said:


> My problems all come from being grossly STIGMATIZED and REJECTED by society - all because of my shy outward demeanor. People completely disregard all that is good about me. They just reject me because they don't get me and they look down on me - and it's only what they see on the outside! Society is extremely superficial and judgmental. We live in a sad, sad world.


I really sympathize with this experience, and know what it feels like to be judged negatively and bullied.

Always believe in your worth, and never feel you have to CHANGE just to conform with extrovert type people. Everybody is different, everybody has different temperament - God made everybody different. There is no sense in which being extrovert communicative and sociable is better than being quiet and shy - that is a ludicrous assertion.

You need to be more proud of who you are.


----------



## britisharrow (Jun 18, 2009)

The drug Nardil (phenelzine) does have an impact. It wasn't easy to get on it as it isn't widely prescribed where I am.

However considering it used to take me a shot of whisky to make a short phone call and now I can do that, amongst other things, Nardil has personally helped me a lot.

I'm now augmenting it with Lyrica (pregabalin), I've only just started this so I'm not aware of an affect yet. My doctor said he is not familiar with combining these two medications in his career and he had to do some extended research before prescribing it.

I am lucky to have a young psychiatrist who is worth his weight in gold and gives me an hour per appointment and I did not have to wait long to see him. This is common in the UK National Health Service.

So yes Nardil has been good so far.

-----

EDIT: Oh and in terms of work outside of medication, NLP has been quite an eye opener. It's quite complex but there are good introductory books.


----------



## britisharrow (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh I see now that this thread is for therapy and not meds, well take my nardil comments as mis-threaded medication ones then.


----------



## thewall (Feb 1, 2009)

I've been taking SSRIs for the past six months and it's helped some, I guess. I have less anxiety, but I still hate myself more than anything in the world, so it's not like they've made everything hunky dory.


----------



## pbanco (Jan 13, 2013)

If you can muster up the motivation to make it into a counselor's office for therapy, then you have all you need to pursue self-therapy if you have the right information. No counselor or therapist out there can make things better - that has to come from inside each person.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]
FormerOptimist: On what you say here; the changes have to happen
within us to make things better, but I think a therapist can be of critical
importance to help with that. The right information is not necessarily
enough to make it happen. With SA the tendency is to want to
do things on our own, at least for me it was. I think it's a much
easier process with the right kind of help.


----------



## sansd (Mar 22, 2006)

Exposure, not guided by a therapist.


----------



## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Like some of you have already posted, therapy/CBT did little for me, I'm not saying that those methods are useless - some people have had great success with them for instance - but it just goes to show that anxiety has many causes and we can't just have a one size fits all solution.

Generally speaking, I personally like meditation & EFT to help calm myself and slow but progressive exposure exercises to get me use to anxiety situations.

I've tried a lot of different e-books over the years, and most of them are a little too 1 dimensional for my liking and not too effective. The only exception has been this guy's ebook/course:

http://social expression.net/

*get rid of the space.

Now sadly, I feel that he's needlessly made his one a little too expensive. But like I said, I do feel it's one of the best online and I'd be glad to pm you details if you want them.


----------



## britisharrow (Jun 18, 2009)

Paper Samurai said:


> Like some of you have already posted, therapy/CBT did little for me, I'm not saying that those methods are useless - some people have had great success with them for instance - but it just goes to show that anxiety has many causes and we can't just have a one size fits all solution.
> 
> Generally speaking, I personally like meditation & EFT to help calm myself and slow but progressive exposure exercises to get me use to anxiety situations.
> 
> ...


Yea I can vouch for EFT. Looks like a silly process but I've found it making memories fade. I have the course on DVD and some books.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

starburst said:


> I hope you enjoy it ! I certainly gained many good insights from reading this book. It is a professional therapists training manual but written in a style accessible to the lay reader.
> 
> He has also written 'The Great Psychiatry Scam', which I've not read yet - but sounds very interesting!
> 
> Guitar sounds quite good! Keep at it!


I am going to try to look into the Trauma Model Therapy book as well. If anyone knows where I might find important excerpts or a summary of it online for free please let me know. Otherwise I might have to...buy it? Let's hope it doesn't come to that haha.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

bent said:


> I am going to try to look into the Trauma Model Therapy book as well. If anyone knows where I might find important excerpts or a summary of it online for free please let me know. Otherwise I might have to...buy it? Let's hope it doesn't come to that haha.


I found it very helpful but to be honest it might not be suitable for everyone - it gives an insight into the therapeutic process, and emphasizes non-drug based therapy approaches, and its quite insightful with some of the case studies of real patients, and describes the workings of numerous mental disorders.

Another book that explained a lot for me was The Divided Self by RD Laing - though again it depends on what you want - some people prefer more traditional self-help type of books - the above two books go into more depth of what the mental condition actually is.

And yes you get a lot of PDF's on the web these days, can save some money, Kindle edition of this book seems quite cheap though.


----------



## G4Z (May 8, 2013)

I have. You can call it "god".


----------



## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

I don't want help.


----------



## worldcitizen (Aug 28, 2011)

visualkeirockstar said:


> I don't want help.


Why is that?


----------



## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

No. I went to several therapists over the course of 6 years, then stopped going for 3 years, then tried another therapist for a few sessions several months ago. None of them have ever helped me; I have improved a lot more by working on myself as well as with the support of my friends and family. Therapists have never really had my goals in mind and rarely gave me coping skills or any sort of advice; they mostly just sat there and assumed that by talking about my problems, I would magically be able to solve them myself.


----------



## Marc999 (Mar 25, 2013)

tbyrfan said:


> No. I went to several therapists over the course of 6 years, then stopped going for 3 years, then tried another therapist for a few sessions several months ago. None of them have ever helped me; I have improved a lot more by working on myself as well as with the support of my friends and family. Therapists have never really had my goals in mind and rarely gave me coping skills or any sort of advice; they mostly just sat there and assumed that by talking about my problems, I would magically be able to solve them myself.


Bingo. Yes, that's what I found with therapists, almost unnerving. You're sitting there talking while he/she stares at you and waits for you to say something. At the end of the session, you write a check and say thanks.

Perhaps if I went to more sessions it would help, but after 3-4 sessions of listening to myself yap, I didn't know why I was paying him. I did this a few times.
What was likely most helpful were the social workers who would give you cognitive behavioral therapy books to try. Unfortunately I never stuck with the text books but really should give it a good try again.

Statistically speaking: medication and CBT combined, have the highest success rate. Unfortunately or fortunately, I'm not willing to including medication again. Just hated the side effects.

It's going to be different for everybody what works. I just hope we all get there sooner, rather than later. Life is too short to watch the other people have all the fun.


----------



## Captainmycaptain (Sep 23, 2012)

carambola said:


> Exposure, not guided by a therapist.


I expose myself everyday and everyday I continue to get worse.


----------



## TrueColor (Apr 21, 2013)

Like a number of people writing here, I didn't find therapists helpful either.. although I don't regret going along. There was actually a small side benefit to seeing the therapists were just human and didn't have a magic wand.. didn't have The Answer and actually had a lot of their own problems. 

I've been to three therapists. The first was in college, looking back I think she was probably a trainee. The second was 4 years ago. She was incredibly manipulative, mixed me up with other clients of hers (forgetting what I'd previously told her, and talking to me about things that had nothing to do with me and obviously referred to another client of hers), along with a number of other things. 
It was a really hurtful experience and put me off therapy. But out of desperation I went to someone else the year after that. She wasn't manipulative, thankfully, but didn't find it at all helpful. 

The only time I've felt "well" from S.A. were brief times in the past when I connected with one or two people, and actually felt human again. They had their own problems (nothing to do with SA).. and I had SA.. but I just realised all of us are broken, whether you have SA or not. Things really seemed on the upward then... The fact even one or two people accepted me freed me up in other social situations in some kind of way. Unfortunately they had to emigrate for work and that was the end of that.

The things that have helped me survive... keeping a journal - the only place I can express what I am really thinking and feeling... Reading a LOT of therapy books, psychology books etc.. Steve Hein's website about emotions (eqi.org)... learning (still a steep learning curve) not to reactively bury painful emotions, trying to be self-compassionate, prayer, music, reading the many comforting passages in the Bible. I would have long been 6 foot under or at the very least an emotional car crash and write-off without God in my life.


----------



## Alienated (Apr 17, 2013)

It fails because you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

If you believe you are powerless or learned your helpless you are. You got to get sick and tired of being sick and tired. You got to want it and work for it with all you got.

A half-assed effort gets you half-assed results.


----------



## bent (Aug 4, 2005)

This is a very tired and weak attempt at apologetics for the fraudsters who want to set themselves up for life as parasites living off vulnerable people while actually contributing to their vulnerabilities. 

People show up to a therapist since they cannot do it alone, obviously. The issue of motivation is itself within the purview of what is supposed to justify a therapist (be it a doctor, psychologist, or anything else) having a specialized expertise that warrants being paid and having some additional credibility about their interpretations and choice of interactions with the patient/client. If they can't even get that part right they are truly useless. Moreover, I think it is clear that people who take the trouble to keep going to therapists and who have extreme consequences to their lives as a result of their problems are putting their energy into the therapy...oh wait, I sense some more bs coming from the therapists after this one...let's now redefine free will and motivation shall we? No way clowns, your fraud is evident. It continues to fail grotesquely because it is bogus and involves preying on the client/patient to some degree, if not entirely.


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

bent said:


> This is a very tired and weak attempt at apologetics for the fraudsters who want to set themselves up for life as parasites living off vulnerable people while actually contributing to their vulnerabilities.
> 
> People show up to a therapist since they cannot do it alone, obviously. The issue of motivation is itself within the purview of what is supposed to justify a therapist (be it a doctor, psychologist, or anything else) having a specialized expertise that warrants being paid and having some additional credibility about their interpretations and choice of interactions with the patient/client. If they can't even get that part right they are truly useless. Moreover, I think it is clear that people who take the trouble to keep going to therapists and who have extreme consequences to their lives as a result of their problems are putting their energy into the therapy...oh wait, I sense some more bs coming from the therapists after this one...let's now redefine free will and motivation shall we? No way clowns, your fraud is evident. It continues to fail grotesquely because it is bogus and involves preying on the client/patient to some degree, if not entirely.


Excellent post - it is scandalous that some therapists could in fact be contributing to the vulnerabilities of their patients - there is little point in spending money on such ineffectual bogus therapies. I think the medical profession generally is fairly untrustworthy.


----------



## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Medication has helped me at different times. Talking therapy hasn't, although it can provide support and perspective.


----------



## loumon (Jul 6, 2012)




----------



## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

Ryukil said:


> Just wondering.


No, just the illusion of helping. I don't mean to say that some basic areas of life haven't been helped by outside factors or resources, just the main thing I've ever wanted in life has never been helped by anything, nothing has ever gotten me closer.

Other than that, I guess you might have to define what you're referring to being helped? Do you mean helped regarding SA, something else, or all problems in general?


----------



## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

bent said:


> The problem is that most learned pessimists are so for valid reasons. They did have things worse than other people when all factors are examined together and they did have greater burdens imposed upon them than most people who are optimists had to contend with. I'm not talking about the exceptions to the rule who are always brought up anecdotally as though that is evidence of the pessimists' moral delinquency. I'm talking about the normal response that most people would have to a bad set of circumstances. Now when those people go to therapy if the therapists tries to operate on the faulty premise that their pessimism is based on illegitimate interpretations of reality and illegitimate reactions, then it won't work. Essentially most of the therapy boils down to faking it till you make it except you aren't supposed to admit that you're faking it. Because it's hard to fake it for a lot of people and it becomes extremely unlikely for anyone after a certain length of time with cumulative negative experiences. So now where does therapy come in? How can it address that fact that you will continue to have a bad life while supposedly correcting your pessimism? The patient has good reason to be pessimistic and cannot invent real optimism out of nothing. Only luck and pills can help and pills barely do.


This is exactly, almost word-for-word what I told my therapist after just a few weeks. A couple months ago I even told him I came to the conclusion that I knew I could finally heal, that it were possible, and I knew exactly how. He asked how and I told him that it would take getting what I really desire. In other words, I feel bad and I feel the way I do because of my inability to get a very specific thing that has been out of my grasp my whole life, something I see almost everyone in the world around me experiencing it like it was some kind of plentiful resource. I can see my own cure and it is that, it is not "feeling good about not having it".

The absolutely only response he gave me, and essentially the same response I've gotten in different forms from various resources is that I don't have what I want because of the way I am. But the way I am is BECAUSE I don't have what I want.



bent said:


> As for support networks, I think one of the ways they work is precisely that if you aren't in a position to be optimistic and therefore generally desirable to be associated with, you still get some sympathy and some loyal support so that it doesn't become a downward cycle, so that something external is offered to assist you in your state of weakness and bad luck. It's not just that your chances of falling past a socially acceptable point are lower in the first place, its also that if you do fall past it the people in the network are still going to help you and might even understand your situation rather than looking at it with coldness the way they might at a stranger.


The thing for me in regards to finding and having such a support network is that the people within it have to have knowledge about HOW I can ultimately get what I want. They can't look at me like a therapist and presume the problem is solely from the inside. If it were, I'd have been healed and got what I want ages ago after "faking it til I made it" for years. The support network needs to not only be there to accept me even in my lowest and darkest, they have to know how to give me the tools to go out and get what I want and be able to listen to my progress and re-align me as I go out and try again.

I sometimes wish I was not as intelligent as I am. Smart enough to get through life but dumb enough to not be aware of the reasons that brought me to my emotional problems. Then I might be just fuzzy enough to maintain motivation indefinitely.


----------



## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

Medication has helped significantly. No therapy or talking to doctors, shrinks, psychologists etc etc has ever really achieved anything.

Xanax really works but taken long term every day will turn your brain into mush. ( It did mine anyway) It is easily the most effective medication for any sort of anxiety - and I've tried a lot of pills. An SSRI will take the edge off marginally if you can find one that works for you and can tolerate the side-effects.


----------



## arealghost (Feb 20, 2013)

Besides getting abuse. Nope.

If I'm not getting banned it's abuse/cheek

Wrong forum...

Therapy? You'll never see me near one....


----------



## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> The absolutely only response he gave me, and essentially the same response I've gotten in different forms from various resources is that I don't have what I want because of the way I am. But the way I am is BECAUSE I don't have what I want.


You could drive yourself crazy thinking like that. Its sounds like you're in some kind of psychological box that you can't get out of - this is symptomatic of the society we live in and its norms, as much as it has to do with our individual self. It does strike me that North America with its highly structured suburbanized living environment is an especially unhealthy place psychologically - it seems that people there are living in a world of images, and increasingly so.

So what is the solution? The way it seems to me is we often conform to expectations, terrified to break out the box, and do something different. Its like we have just become boring compliant androids who perform certain functions. We are Stepford people. Its a case of doing something different - BEING different - its TERRIFYING - but its not criminal that will deprive you of property, freedom, and rights.

You could one day 'get what you want' - but do you seriously expect it to just fall into your lap? You have to fight for what you want, and prove yourself worthy - good luck


----------



## green9206 (May 13, 2013)

So it seems that neither therapy nor meds work to help with social anxiety ? So it is ourselves that can truly help us and no one else ?


----------



## running n circles (Apr 29, 2011)

Exposure has been the only thing that seems to make it a lil easier but even then sometimes it feels like torture. Also, if I don't constantly try to do that I tend to slip back fairly quick.


----------



## harrison (Apr 14, 2012)

don36 said:


> Medication has helped significantly. No therapy or talking to doctors, shrinks, psychologists etc etc has ever really achieved anything.
> 
> Xanax really works but taken long term every day will turn your brain into mush. ( It did mine anyway) It is easily the most effective medication for any sort of anxiety - and I've tried a lot of pills. An SSRI will take the edge off marginally if you can find one that works for you and can tolerate the side-effects.


I remembered today that Mindfulness exercises used to really work. I used to do them at the hospital - a staff member would bring a CD in and we'd all sit there doing it. We did it at 8;30 every morning and for the time that I did it, it felt like I'd had a valium or something. I was very relaxed for the entire morning.

I really should get into the habit of doing that again - it's only laziness and forgetfulness that stops me.


----------



## TrueColor (Apr 21, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> ... I came to the conclusion that I knew I could finally heal, that it were possible, and I knew exactly how.... that it would take getting what I really desire. In other words, I feel bad and I feel the way I do because of my inability to get a very specific thing that has been out of my grasp my whole life, something I see almost everyone in the world around me experiencing it like it was some kind of plentiful resource. I can see my own cure and it is that, it is not "feeling good about not having it".


I'm in this place too the last year or so... I've realised I've done everything I _can..._ I've strained and strived, studied, researched, read, gone to therapy etc. 
Last few months I've been thinking about the idea of *acceptance*....that this is me... this has been my life... It hasn't been the picture perfect life... lots of aspects have been desperately sad...
I've been working a little on acceptance and actually it has helped a lot in reducing anxiety... The anxiety I feel even having this problem.

There's a sense of hidden blame in having anxiety or depression or anything like that. Lots of advice from all angles... and the implication is that if you are not healed it is somehow _your _fault... you haven't worked hard enough etc.

It also helps to remember that an enormous amount of people have desperate lives, way worse than mine, and I'm thankful for the things that are good.

.


----------



## DesertStar91 (Feb 1, 2012)

anti depressants would probably help me talk, but I've been on them and all they did was make me hypomanic. I am trying to cure myself by going places alone and saying hi to people on the streets. Going to school helps, and going places that scared me before. I noticed that I am less nervous, but it hasn't gone away.


----------



## tvegen (May 29, 2013)

DesertStar91 said:


> anti depressants would probably help me talk, but I've been on them and all they did was make me hypomanic. I am trying to cure myself by going places alone and saying hi to people on the streets. Going to school helps, and going places that scared me before. I noticed that I am less nervous, but it hasn't gone away.


Self-exposure as already mentioned previously is definitely effective for a lot of SA cases I would think, it would have to be to the extend that it feels like torture though - Consistent Torture.


----------



## VanGogh (Jan 13, 2013)

TrueColor said:


> I'm in this place too the last year or so... I've realised I've done everything I _can..._ I've strained and strived, studied, researched, read, gone to therapy etc.
> Last few months I've been thinking about the idea of *acceptance*....that this is me... this has been my life... It hasn't been the picture perfect life... lots of aspects have been desperately sad...
> I've been working a little on acceptance and actually it has helped a lot in reducing anxiety... The anxiety I feel even having this problem.


I can't accept it, though. I've never wanted to nor able to if I could find a way to want to.


----------



## percon21 (May 25, 2013)

Forcing myself to talk has helped a little. I am not as shy as I used to be but only by a small increment. I still go over the conversations feeling like I said something stupid or that I am off a certain way.


----------



## John316C (May 1, 2011)

fghfh


----------



## TrueColor (Apr 21, 2013)

VanGogh said:


> I can't accept it, though. I've never wanted to nor able to if I could find a way to want to.


I get what you're saying. Reason I came to think about the idea of 'acceptance' was my job last few years working with very ill children :blank

I was thinking about the number of people that have awful health problems, really sucks... And I was thinking how the kids responded. They didn't know life could be any different, so they didn't suffer bitterness or angst, or recriminations or self-critcism etc. etc re their illness.

And I could see the benefits of that... I realised actually we probably have a false picture of life.. the way it should be.. no two ways about it, it is hard.

I felt working on 'acceptance' would bring me a little peace.. and it has... doesn't mean I don't cry my eyes out either at times... 

.


----------



## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Klonopin. That's it. Whenever I take it, it makes me feel like a completely normal person. It not only eliminates anxiety, but it puts me in a calm, carefree mood.


----------



## Buddy900 (Apr 9, 2012)

I applied for a job in retail a while ago, and I had to do a quick training course to show me how to properly interact with customers. It boosted my confidence.


----------



## samuraimunki (Jun 2, 2013)

Ryukil said:


> Just wondering.


The Linden method is extremely effective, it helps you to replace negative beliefs and behaviors with positive ones. For more info go here www.helpwithanxiety.net


----------



## TrueColor (Apr 21, 2013)

samuraimunki said:


> The Linden method is extremely effective, it helps you to replace negative beliefs and behaviors with positive ones. For more info go here www.helpwithanxiety.net


That's interesting. Hadn't heard about this before but am curious to know more. I googled it... seems to have loads of positive reviews.

Have you personally found it beneficial? thanks


----------



## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

TrueColor said:


> That's interesting. Hadn't heard about this before but am curious to know more. I googled it... seems to have loads of positive reviews.
> 
> Have you personally found it beneficial? thanks


 http://resonatingthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/linden_scam/


----------



## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

samuraimunki said:


> The Linden method is extremely effective, it helps you to replace negative beliefs and behaviors with positive ones. For more info go here www.helpwithanxiety.net


----------



## TrueColor (Apr 21, 2013)

jonny neurotic said:


> http://resonatingthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/linden_scam/


Thanks for that!

.


----------



## SASsier (Apr 9, 2010)

DRUGSAREnotGOOD said:


> I expose myself everyday and everyday I continue to get worse.


Same here. Exposure therapy DOES NOT WORK for everyone. It certainly hasn't worked for me at all.

Therapists think they're always right. Whenever I tell them I've given a good-faith effort with exposure/CBT and it didn't work, they'll blame me for not working hard enough. I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't.


----------



## Ryukil (Jun 2, 2011)

@Bent and all the people talking about therapy

You know what's funny though? If a therapist were to see this thread, they would just write it off since we're all "crazy". Or that's how I think some of them would probably react. Most of the mental health professionals I have been to have been exceedingly arrogant (with at least a single exception; the last psychologist I saw, a younger woman, wasn't like that at all). They sit behind their desks, the stigma of mental illness filling their minds, looking down at you. Or that's how I feel, anyway.


----------



## SASsier (Apr 9, 2010)

Ryukil said:


> Most of the mental health professionals I have been to have been exceedingly arrogant


Yes, my experiences exactly.



Ryukil said:


> (with at least a single exception; the last psychologist I saw, a younger woman, wasn't like that at all).


I've noticed that less experienced, younger therapists, such as interns, tend to be nicer, better listeners, and less judgmental. They're new and they're trying harder.

Also, when I've called crisis hotlines and friendship lines, the volunteers tend to be empathetic and compassionate.

I'm still desperate for therapy/counseling despite all my terrible, abusive experiences with therapists. And I'm focusing my search on less experienced interns or volunteers because I think they'd be kinder and easier to work with.

It's horrendous that therapists are routinely so abusive to people. Therapy, of all professions, should only attract people who genuinely want to help *all* their clients. But instead, therapists play favorites. They're only kind and supportive to the clients that they like or find attractive or whatever. Humans are shockingly judgmental and cruel.


----------



## shelkay (Jul 4, 2013)

Recovery from social anxiety has been a lifelong process for me. Many factors went into creating it - genetics, many unfortunate parenting mistakes, my family moving during critical points in my social development, some specific traumatic experiences...

One important healing factor was meeting the man who is now my husband of 6 years. Another was getting connected to the church group we are a part of. He and my church give me a sense of being "at home." Everywhere else in the world is a little bit alien and foreign to me, but my husband and church friends "get" me and they truly love me. 

Another part of my healing has been finally fulfilling my lifelong dream of finishing my masters degree (2nd time around, long story) and becoming a mental health counselor. I really love what I'm doing and I can see that my clients are really being helped (despite the crap the agency throws in my way.)

Another part is that kindof by accident I found the right combo of meds. My neurologist was prescribing for migraines and I ended up with effexor and topamax, which - tada! - ended up helping my PMDD and social anxiety as well!


----------



## Twelve Keyz (Aug 28, 2011)

nope. Psychotherapy is a scam. Exposure doesn't seem to make a difference for me either. Meds may work but they have nasty side effects.



John316C said:


> you can only be helped if you believe it can help you


ah, the placebo effect... classic



Ryukil said:


> @Bent and all the people talking about therapy
> 
> You know what's funny though? If a therapist were to see this thread, they would just write it off since we're all "crazy". Or that's how I think some of them would probably react. Most of the mental health professionals I have been to have been exceedingly arrogant (with at least a single exception; the last psychologist I saw, a younger woman, wasn't like that at all). They sit behind their desks, the stigma of mental illness filling their minds, looking down at you. Or that's how I feel, anyway.


true dat.


----------

