# University was made for overachievers



## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

Why is it that all of a sudden, university has become a place overrun with such fking overachievers??? I hate that I can't stop hearing people talk about how they got 90s and even 100s on tests that I couldn't even pass. I remember when I first reentered school in the winter of last year and in the fall of 2012, it wasn't like this. People regularly failed and bombed tests to the point that we had averages as low as 5/15. One time in the winter of last year, my calc prof sent out an email saying that no one got over 40 on a test that was out of 50, so he decided to make everyone's scores out of 40 instead. I used to hear people talk about how they were 'happy' about getting 67 on a test, and now it seems like no one is satisfied with anything less than 90.

This year, everything changed. It all started with my programming class back in the fall. It seemed like everyone in that class knew exactly what they were doing except for me. I failed just about every lab quiz that everyone else seemed to find really easy, and had to defer a midterm that almost everyone in my section had apparently aced. The lab TA would tell me every time I got a quiz handed back that I was 'missing something from the bottom,' and so I wouldn't be able to work my way up. He even told me that my way of thinking seemed 'very strange' compared to everyone else judging by the answers I'd write on the lab quizzes, and he couldn't even fathom my reasoning behind them. He even advised me to consider dropping the course before the deadline since time was running out, and by that point it may be too late to catch up.

This semester I am retaking two courses, and of course it's the same story all over again. My profs often talk about how 'many students got a full mark of 100' although the average is somewhere below 60. I know they just don't mention how many people must have failed in order to balance it all out, but I feel like I am functioning at the absolute bare minimum level compared to just about everyone else at my school. I feel deeply ashamed and embarrassed, although I know it isn't really my fault. I just feel like there is no point to continue and no point in trying because I will never be anywhere near the same level as 99% of the population. Why should I even care when the world has shown me since the very beginning that it hasn't cared about me in the slightest? Anytime I am given even a bit of happiness, it gets snatched away just as quickly.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

I disappoint everyone including myself. It was a terrible idea to try to pursue this program.


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## russianruby (Jan 29, 2013)

The reason for this is because that is how you choose to see it. I bet there are people as clueless as you in some of those classes, and that's o.k. because the world is not run by overachievers but by average people. I quit University because I felt out of place and am now in community college where everything is a whole lot simpler. I plan on going to a different university as well next semester, which hopefully isn't as complicated.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

s2panda said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself. I mean you got into the program (guessing engineering?) and STEM fields aren't exactly easy. There's a lot of others in much easier programs that are failing.


Yeah, I know it isn't really my fault. I had a lot of mental and physical health problems ever since I got back into school, and I also got really unlucky this semester because the department just happened to decide that the exams should be multiple choice this time around (I've always been terrible at MC, and partial marks aren't given for the process so getting the wrong answer even if you have the right process means 0 marks), AND because of the 2 horrid profs teaching the other sections in this course, they won't allow us to transfer our first midterm marks to the final even though the averages in their sections were 40%. This would be ok for other students who failed I guess, because they can easily drop and take this course again during the summer or fall when it's more relaxed, but I can't afford to do that because this is the second time I'm taking it.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

russianruby said:


> The reason for this is because that is how you choose to see it.


It's seriously hard not to see things that way when everyone around me seems to be doing much better.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Programming classes are among the most failed classes in pretty much every university.

Computer science also has one of the highest attrition (leaving the major) rates.

I wouldn't feel bad. Programming is actually incredibly difficult. People who tell you otherwise are either geniuses who lack perspective or are are internet tough guys who want to make themselves seem superior.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

InfiniteBlaze said:


> Programming classes are among the most failed classes in pretty much every university.


Lol, the people in my introductory programming class last term would beg to differ. They had one of the highest group averages I've seen for any course.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Earl of Lemongrab said:


> Lol, the people in my introductory programming class last term would beg to differ. They had one of the highest group averages I've seen for any course.


That's just a statistical outlier. Your class just happened to have a lot of wiz-kids (or cheaters) in it.

On average, programming is one of the most failed classes. Google "computer science failure rates" and you'll see a lot of research come up.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

s2panda said:


> Sorry InfiniteBlaze but intro to programming is not difficult. If you're struggling with it, you should seriously consider switching programs.


Been there, done that. I'm in accounting now.

And programming may not be difficult for you but it is for a lot of people. Even my professor recognized that it isn't for everyone and advised failing students to drop and even switch majors.

You're probably naturally inclined to be better at programming. Please try to have some perspective.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

s2panda said:


> What program are you in? A BSc that just requires Programming as a pre-req or a computer science major?
> 
> Most people entering computer science already know how to program because they learned it from a young age or took it in high school. So they understand the basic fundamentals and have a passion for the field. There are very few people who blindly pick computer science as a major without prior programming experience.
> 
> Sorry InfiniteBlaze but intro to programming is not difficult. If you're struggling with it, you should seriously consider switching programs.


Well, herein lies the problem. Intro to programming is a class intended for beginners without prior experience, but since they can't exactly dictate which students are allowed to register for the course, it just so happens that a lot of people who are too advanced for the material end up registering.

Actually, at the beginning of the semester when asked which students in the class had prior experience, a lot of people answered that they didn't have any. It seems to me that I just happened to enter a course with a lot of people who either had experience, or were VERY fast learners.


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## mike91 (Sep 23, 2012)

aleast you made it to uni I failed the first two years of highschool then dropped on the 3rd year now I work a **** job I hate


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/

You're kidding yourself if you say that programming isn't hard (if not impossible) for the majority of people. Programming is a unique kind of beast.


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## londonguy202 (Jan 10, 2014)

InfiniteBlaze said:


> http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/
> 
> You're kidding yourself if you say that programming isn't hard (if not impossible) for the majority of people. Programming is a unique kind of beast.


Personally, thanks for referring my old university, Attending a BSc course in computing at Middlsex uni was the best time of my life. I was taught by Ray Adams, He was a great and fun lecturer.

I did programming and, Oh My Gosh, its hard, especially when you do Java. I am more prefer to SQL or HTML mainly because I can use adobe dreamweaver. 
I also did a masters degree at Surrey uni in the UK


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

londonguy202 said:


> I did programming and, Oh My Gosh, its hard, especially when you do Java. I am more prefer to SQL or HTML mainly because I can use adobe dreamweaver.
> I also did a masters degree at Surrey uni in the UK


Interesting you mention that Java is a hard language, since it's the most popular beginners' language at universities and it's considered the most popular high level language. How can you even compare it with HTML? They're not even in the same category, unlike Java and C++.


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## londonguy202 (Jan 10, 2014)

Earl of Lemongrab said:


> Interesting you mention that Java is a hard language, since it's the most popular beginners' language at universities and it's considered the most popular high level language. How can you even compare it with HTML? They're not even in the same category, unlike Java and C++.


Sorry, I mention I did use C and C++. Java was good but the IDE I used was JCreator which is annoyed because I can never know what the error is. I did start to use Netbeans IDE now which is much better and I can use Python,Java, C and c++.

I first diped my toes in programming when I was 12 and completed a small database using C and the easier GUI creator.

I do like Java as it is easy to create GUI using JOptionPane. HTML is easy to create sites.

This is me from MDX https://connect.innovateuk.org/web/karthics8


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## russianruby (Jan 29, 2013)

I took programming in university, and I thought I was going to assassinate the professor by the end of the semester. It is really that hard. The lab teacher couldn't speak english well, and I spent dozens of hours trying to figure stuff out on my own. There wasn't even any text or material for the course and the exams consisted of spending over half an hour following a single sorting method which you would get wrong if you made a single mistake. I got about 30% on my final exam and I was happy that I got a B in the class. As for the other students, there was one who was a complete genius, and a handful of other wiz's but otherwise most people were as troubled as I. The problem is that programming isn't taught enough in school before college and even there you can't collaborate with others on assignments which would make learning so much easier.


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## longshot (Mar 3, 2014)

This is interesting. I have to do programming as a part of a physics degree and I struggle immensely. I was getting the hang of it but found there was only a few weeks of the semester left and I was only a third of the way through the material, so then I just ended up copying other people and not learning anything at all. I've got 80%+ in modules like astrophysics and quantum, so it's not as if I'm too stupid.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

longshot said:


> This is interesting. I have to do programming as a part of a physics degree and I struggle immensely. I was getting the hang of it but found there was only a few weeks of the semester left and I was only a third of the way through the material, so then I just ended up copying other people and not learning anything at all. I've got 80%+ in modules like astrophysics and quantum, so it's not as if I'm too stupid.


I ****ing despise how they make you take at least some form of programming for pretty much everything STEM. When I dropped out of computer science, there were a lot of majors I considered but later dismissed as I found out I had to take one or more programming classes. Thank ****ing goodness accounting doesn't require me to go anywhere near anything that resembles programing.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

InfiniteBlaze said:


> I ****ing despise how they make you take at least some form of programming for pretty much everything STEM. When I dropped out of computer science, there were a lot of majors I considered but later dismissed as I found out I had to take one or more programming classes. Thank ****ing goodness accounting doesn't require me to go anywhere near anything that resembles programing.


Over here you have the option to take Java or C programming for first year physics, and then you have C programming for any non computer engineering major (including electrical). What I don't get is the people who choose to double major in engineering and computer science, of which there are quite a few at my school. One or the other is hard enough. You might as well qualify to apply for MIT if you think engineering itself isn't hard enough.


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## AceEmoKid (Apr 27, 2012)

I am considered an overachiever yet I by no means am able to handle university. I'm dropping out next semester due to combined mental/emotional stress and financial issues. I was teetering on the edge of a C grade for my math class last semester, and it was supposedly one of the easiest courses to take. Guess I'm just retarded.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

AceEmoKid said:


> I am considered an overachiever yet I by no means am able to handle university. I'm dropping out next semester due to combined mental/emotional stress and financial issues. I was teetering on the edge of a C grade for my math class last semester, and it was supposedly one of the easiest courses to take. Guess I'm just retarded.


Oh well come now you don't really believe that do you?

I couldn't even handle college the first go around and you know how I am.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

AceEmoKid said:


> I am considered an overachiever yet I by no means am able to handle university. I'm dropping out next semester due to combined mental/emotional stress and financial issues. I was teetering on the edge of a C grade for my math class last semester, and it was supposedly one of the easiest courses to take. Guess I'm just retarded.


Which math class was it exactly? College algebra? Math is all about building blocks and if you don't have the necessary foundation to build on, then you'll easily fail. Don't call yourself retarded over something like that.


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## xlavenderx (Feb 23, 2014)

Earl of Lemongrab said:


> Why is it that all of a sudden, university has become a place overrun with such fking overachievers??? I hate that I can't stop hearing people talk about how they got 90s and even 100s on tests that I couldn't even pass. I remember when I first reentered school in the winter of last year and in the fall of 2012, it wasn't like this. People regularly failed and bombed tests to the point that we had averages as low as 5/15. One time in the winter of last year, my calc prof sent out an email saying that no one got over 40 on a test that was out of 50, so he decided to make everyone's scores out of 40 instead. I used to hear people talk about how they were 'happy' about getting 67 on a test, and now it seems like no one is satisfied with anything less than 90.
> 
> This year, everything changed. It all started with my programming class back in the fall. It seemed like everyone in that class knew exactly what they were doing except for me. I failed just about every lab quiz that everyone else seemed to find really easy, and had to defer a midterm that almost everyone in my section had apparently aced. The lab TA would tell me every time I got a quiz handed back that I was 'missing something from the bottom,' and so I wouldn't be able to work my way up. He even told me that my way of thinking seemed 'very strange' compared to everyone else judging by the answers I'd write on the lab quizzes, and he couldn't even fathom my reasoning behind them. He even advised me to consider dropping the course before the deadline since time was running out, and by that point it may be too late to catch up.
> 
> This semester I am retaking two courses, and of course it's the same story all over again. My profs often talk about how 'many students got a full mark of 100' although the average is somewhere below 60. I know they just don't mention how many people must have failed in order to balance it all out, but I feel like I am functioning at the absolute bare minimum level compared to just about everyone else at my school. I feel deeply ashamed and embarrassed, although I know it isn't really my fault. I just feel like there is no point to continue and no point in trying because I will never be anywhere near the same level as 99% of the population. Why should I even care when the world has shown me since the very beginning that it hasn't cared about me in the slightest? Anytime I am given even a bit of happiness, it gets snatched away just as quickly.


Wow... literally went through the same thing, and still occasionally am in university. I think the stakes are higher with the job market, so everyone's so eager to do well, or, university just attracts those type of people maybe.

I saw a great Ted Talks where a woman talked about not feeling like she fit in, and that she didn't deserve to be where she was, and then said she realized she had to "fake it until she became it".

From my own experience, pave your own path. Work as hard as you want, and don't compare yourself to others. Everyone has different backgrounds and talents. If you didn't do well on one assignment/test/class, there will be another one for you to try even harder on. A challenge is a good thing. It means you're growing.

I would suggest working hard and not letting other people get to you. A prof/TA will more likely comment on how good a class did, opposed to how crappy other people did.

You have your own unique talents and interests, and so what if you're not the "best"? I really don't think that's a reason to completely give up. School really doesn't reflect the real world.


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## Hussle (Mar 5, 2014)

edit


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## loneliness (Oct 3, 2013)

It seems like you are going to a really nice university or something, because I attend an average university and I've never had a physics/math/computer science class where "everyone seemed to get 90s or 100s." The average for my mechanics course was a D and half the people dropped, and for my C++ class at least half the class bombed most of the tests.

Don't compare yourself to others. It's not healthy. Maybe they are simply smarter than you, or maybe they put in an incredible amount of study time compared to you. Whatever the case is, don't compare yourself to them.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

loneliness said:


> It seems like you are going to a really nice university or something, because I attend an average university and I've never had a physics/math/computer science class where "everyone seemed to get 90s or 100s." The average for my mechanics course was a D and half the people dropped, and for my C++ class at least half the class bombed most of the tests.


Hahaha, not even close. My university doesn't really have any kind of international reputation to speak of, and in previous years it seemed like everyone was failing (with the exception of a few hardcore geniuses) in the classes that you mentioned. And yet this year, it seems as though everything has changed and suddenly it's become overrun with overachievers. I wonder why that is :roll


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## loneliness (Oct 3, 2013)

Earl of Lemongrab said:


> Hahaha, not even close. My university doesn't really have any kind of international reputation to speak of, and in previous years it seemed like everyone was failing (with the exception of a few hardcore geniuses) in the classes that you mentioned. And yet this year, it seems as though everything has changed and suddenly it's become overrun with overachievers. I wonder why that is :roll


Okay, so it's just some bizarre anomaly? Why get worked up over that? There's no need to feel bad that you struggle somewhat in classes that are quite difficult. And again, judging your worthiness based on the performance of others only leads to dark places.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

loneliness said:


> Okay, so it's just some bizarre anomaly? Why get worked up over that? There's no need to feel bad that you struggle somewhat in classes that are quite difficult. And again, judging your worthiness based on the performance of others only leads to dark places.


You're right, I'm just unfortunate being surrounded by the kinds of people I am around on a daily basis. I also think I have selection bias because I only ever hear about the people who got perfect on exams, but that just means the people who bombed them haven't announced it out loud.


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## callmebas (Jan 11, 2013)

It's even worse when people who don't study all that much get same or even better grades than you do. It is not that they are smarter , i'm certain about that, it's how unfair this system works focusing around marks and numbers. Also it's true, some studies are not for everyone.

It is harder for people with sa when found in a 'not so suitable to them' field of study. Little did i know, but back then i didn't care nor knew much about this 'condition', and how harder everything would be. It is the pressure to succeed and make money in this fast paced world that one doesn't get the time to think for themselves. 

=/


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## blueman1027 (Aug 9, 2013)

At my uni, achievement varies greatly between different classes. A's and B's are the norm in classes that are specific to a major, but the grades in general ed classes are downright pathetic. The class average in my college algebra class is at 42% right now.


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## greyandgreenbean77 (Dec 23, 2013)

*Join the Club*

I'm a Biochemistry Major in my 4th year about to graduate and I absolutely suck at math and I'm really not cut out for this major at all. I liked general chemistry and got As easily but then I took harder classes and started getting Cs like barely and now like seriously sucking like failing, and most of the people in my classes are rather intelligent and get good grades. Point blank, programming is a difficult major, STEM majors are hard period, underacheivers don't waste their time in these courses because they are underacheivers ie your competing w/ the top of the line. My advice is find a different major while you can or just put up w/ it, graduate, and do whatever job or career you want after the degree. If your far along like I am then your screwed trying to switch unless you want to live in school and I for one loathe school w/ a passion.


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