# Grade liars



## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

One of the things that highly irritates me is people who compulsively lie about their grades and their study effort.

Examples:
"University: exams stats101? Yeah, I study the night before" -> You ****ING liar! Not even the brightest guys I know (whose IQ ranges around 145) can do that

"High school: yeah I study 3 hours before the exam and I get an A" -> another blatant lie

I am a very intelligent guy and I hang around very intelligent people. Now, I have some friends who study in the medical sector (senior year med students, those are the best). All I had to do was ask them how long they studied for their senior finals for for example: general surgery. They told me they have been studying day in day in, 16 hours per day, for at least five months, just to be barely ADMITTED to a medical position. The minimum you had to get was 90%. Now those friends of mine, they are actually realistic about studying. I believe them because a) they are an intimate group of friends of mine b) we study at the same prestigious and incredibly difficult university (Stanford/MIT level) and c) I have the same experience as them and I am not a retard (my IQ has been confirmed to be at least 129. Yes, I know IQ does not indicate much).

So liars out there, say all you want, but I won't believe you. I find it incredibly offensive to say you studied 3 hours for a CALCULUS exam at a UNIVERSITY (note the capitalization on that to indicate I am being serious about how difficult it is). I have been three years on campus, I had good grades and so did my peers, but by God I had to study undescribably hard to achieve those grades. I do not for a second believe in people who claim to study 1 day before the exam and pass the course with glory. No, 1 day is not enough, 3 days is not enough, 2 weeks is not enough, 1 month is not enough.

I've had over 20 courses of various difficulties and specialized sciences at university and each one of them took me at least two months to study, 8 hours per day, so I know very, very well what I am talking about.


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## Steestee (Feb 20, 2014)

It's not necessarily about IQ, some people just have the gift. I am a very good test taker, probably one of those people that piss you off, so I apologize. I don't have an aptitude for calculus, and I can't imagine doing that in medical school, but I can look over the material for a history, economics, or foreign language exam once or twice and ace the test. A lot of it has to do with being able to listen and retain material from class, so that it's not the first time you see the material when you begin studying for the test. 

Unfortunately, when tests come easily like that, you don't learn how to prepare for tasks that are actually challenging. I might not graduate for a long time because I can't seem to put in the time required to do my undergraduate research, because I never learned how. I don't even want to imagine how quickly I'll flunk out of law school. So yeah, the moral of the story is, hard work will pay off much better in the long run than their test-taking ability will for them.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Steestee said:


> It's not necessarily about IQ, some people just have the gift. I am a very good test taker, probably one of those people that piss you off, so I apologize. I don't have an aptitude for calculus, and I can't imagine doing that in medical school, but I can look over the material for a history, economics, or foreign language exam once or twice and ace the test. A lot of it has to do with being able to listen and retain material from class, so that it's not the first time you see the material when you begin studying for the test.
> 
> Unfortunately, when tests come easily like that, you don't learn how to prepare for tasks that are actually challenging. I might not graduate for a long time because I can't seem to put in the time required to do my undergraduate research, because I never learned how. I don't even want to imagine how quickly I'll flunk out of law school. So yeah, the moral of the story is, hard work will pay off much better in the long run than their test-taking ability will for them.


Yes, this is true. Don't flunk out though. Do your best.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

Asperger's?


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Some people seem to fail to understand they've been in my ignore list for ages.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

s12345 said:


> Some people seem to fail to understand they've been in my ignore list for ages.


Oh I know, I just don't care :b


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

failoutboy said:


> I see this sometimes too but I don't get why they think it is cool to brag about how little they worked on something. Being lazy isn't something to be proud of. It is kind of like the people who brag about how drunk they got last night.


Yep.  Or those weirdos like: "Oh duuuude I'm sooo high".


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## SPC (May 14, 2011)

effort is relative and the beauty of natural talent is that it makes life unfair.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

TicklemeRingo said:


> Asperger's?


Aspies are good at specific subjects because they study them relentlessly with a passion. Their other subjects are often lackluster in comparison due to the lack of focus.

I agree with the OP, they're liars. No one can do that in uni courses. Unless you're at some pathetic community college or in a weak low hour class. And trust me I know because I have an exceptional memory and the ability to focus for extended periods of time. It's not happening, you can't do it.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> Aspies are good at specific subjects because they study them relentlessly with a passion. Their other subjects are often lackluster in comparison due to the lack of focus.
> 
> I agree with the OP, they're liars. No one can do that in uni courses. Unless you're at some pathetic community college or in a weak low hour class.


Now now.. let us not ridicule community college people. I studied community college after high school and after I got that community college degree I took up university. That doesn't mean I didn't study hard (well, I studied less hard) or that it was easy to pass those exams. I still had to study, but of course the difference was that in community college where I would get a 90%, here at this university I would get maybe 30% because my knowledge (in their eyes) would be 'ok, but not at all sufficient'. I've been through many long roads of experience to know the differences. University is so difficult that right now during the studying for my statistics exam my brain is actually hot (my head feels hot). Well, I am going to take a break and eat something first.

In any case, it's true: those guys are just liars. Even if they have talent, it would still take great effort to pass courses at university.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

s12345 said:


> Now now.. let us not ridicule community college people. I studied community college after high school and after I got that community college degree I took up university. That doesn't mean I didn't study hard (well, I studied less hard) or that it was easy to pass those exams. I still had to study, but of course the difference was that in community college where I would get a 90%, here at this university I would get maybe 30% because my knowledge (in their eyes) would be 'ok, but not at all sufficient'. I've been through many long roads of experience to know the differences. University is so difficult that right now during the studying for my statistics exam my brain is actually hot (my head feels hot). Well, I am going to take a break and eat something first.
> 
> In any case, it's true: those guys are just liars. Even if they have talent, it would still take great effort to pass courses at university.


I don't mean to trash community colleges, but the standards for their curriculum are lower. And by pathetic I mean the community colleges that are pathetic, not all community colleges in general.

I know for a fact some technical degrees like pharmacy tech is something you wouldn't be able to just memorize all right before the test unless the tests themselves were totally soft.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

Sacrieur said:


> Aspies are good at specific subjects because they study them relentlessly with a passion. Their other subjects are often lackluster in comparison due to the lack of focus.
> 
> I agree with the OP, they're liars. No one can do that in uni courses. Unless you're at some pathetic community college or in a weak low hour class. And trust me I know because I have an exceptional memory and the ability to focus for extended periods of time. It's not happening, you can't do it.


 I meant the OP. I seem to remember that getting abnormally angry about things that other people would see as trivial is a symptom.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

TicklemeRingo said:


> I meant the OP. I seem to remember that getting abnormally angry about things that other people would see as trivial is a symptom.


I don't think it's trivial, but then again I'm an aspie so meh.

I know exaggerating things is just one of things everyone does.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> I don't mean to trash community colleges, but the standards for their curriculum are lower. And by pathetic I mean the community colleges that are pathetic, not all community colleges in general.
> 
> I know for a fact some technical degrees like pharmacy tech is something you wouldn't be able to just memorize all right before the test unless the tests themselves were totally soft.


Looking at this from a statistical point of view: if your entire exam is multiple choice (like my stats exam) and each question has 4 choices, you have 1/4*n chance of passing the exam. In fact, you can just guess away, but the chances of passing are very slim (around 10%). You can verify that in R cran with dbinom(x,n,p) I think.


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## AceEmoKid (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm more inclined to excel on exams that test subjects I'm interested in, without even studying or paying attention in class. I've aced exams before without taking a moment to formally study outside of class. However, this can depend on the definition of "study" we're talking about, as well as the difficulty and type of exam that is administered.

Knowledge is everywhere, so whatever I research on my own time on the internet or via other resources can easily overlap with subject matter from class. I'm not very social (obviously), so I spend most of my free time just researching stuff on the internet for fun, gravitating especially toward certain topics that may overlap with exam material. In some way, it's sort of like studying. But it's not formally catered exactly toward the exam material, and it doesn't _feel_ like studying. I don't pay attention in any of my classes most of the time due to an auditory processing problem, ADD, and other conditions (I only attend to get attendance credit), yet my free form research makes up for everything I've missed and more.

As for test form, I do really well on written tests that incorporate short responses and essays. There's a lot of leeway, and writing free form grants the student the liberty to "show off" any extra information not explicitly asked of them, unlike multiple choice/fill in the blank/etc questions.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Hmmm. This may be why we don't see eye to eye. I am one of those people that can study the day before an exam (not looking at the material all semester) and get a perfect score. Maybe split it up into two days, depending on the exam and the complexity of the topic.

My study method is insanely efficient and I think my "gift" is that I learn very fast. My memory is killer..verging on photographic. I also know a guy who remembers EVERYTHING he hears.

It is very possible to ace a test with minimal study effort. Some professors are predictable in what they put on exams. Some people may lie...but I am not I and I know there are people who can do it.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Primitive Fish said:


> Hmmm. This may be why we don't see eye to eye. I am one of those people that can study the day before an exam (not looking at the material all semester) and get a perfect score. Maybe split it up into two days, depending on the exam and the complexity of the topic.
> 
> My study method is insanely efficient and I think my "gift" is that I learn very fast. My memory is killer..verging on photographic. I also know a guy who remembers EVERYTHING he hears.
> 
> It is very possible to ace a test with minimal study effort. Some professors are predictable in what they put on exams. Some people may lie...but I am not I and I know there are people who can do it.



Let's test it.

Post your score.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Lol. Of what?


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> Let's test it.
> 
> Post your score.


Hahahaha. 
Hey that looks like fun! I'm going to take it. 

Ok so I took it. Here's my score:










I might have done a better job if I slept better and if I didn't just take 5 statistics101 tests and just came from studying 2,5 hours. 

Nonetheless, fun test. 
I tend to do well on Brain Challenge memory test. It says I score excellently at short term memory.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Oh. Couldn't see a link on the phone. Um...no. I'm not playing silly games.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Primitive Fish said:


> Oh. Couldn't see a link on the phone. Um...no. I'm not playing silly games.


Then you are simply a grade liar until proven otherwise.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't see how a memory test proves that I can study all the material for an exam in one night and get a perfect score.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Primitive Fish said:


> I don't see how a memory test proves that I can study all the material for an exam in one night and get a perfect score.


I don't see how we should believe you.


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## apx24 (Jan 31, 2012)

I am one of the people that can coast and study little and get decent grades (well for me anything over 60% is decent), but that's because I study a **** course, if I studied a course like medicine or calculus I would fail instantly if I studied the same way as I do now. 

Just remember that those who study little and get good grades probably study an easier course than you. If these people were in your position they would fail badly.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

apx24 said:


> I am one of the people that can coast and study little and get decent grades (well for me anything over 60% is decent), but that's because I study a **** course, if I studied a course like medicine or calculus I would fail instantly if I studied the same way as I do now.
> 
> Just remember that those who study little and get good grades probably study an easier course than you. If these people were in your position they would fail badly.


That is exactly my point.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Primitive Fish said:


> Oh. Couldn't see a link on the phone. Um...no. I'm not playing silly games.


If you truly have a "near photographic" memory this game would be easy for you. It's visual working memory.

I can tell you what I ate for breakfast last week. I'm not even a visual person and I scored a 42385. That's how I know you people are lying.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Sacrieur said:


> If you truly have a "near photographic" memory this game would be easy for you. It's visual working memory.
> 
> In fact I can tell you what I ate for breakfast last week. I'm not even a visual person and I scored a 42385. That's how I know you people are lying.


What the heck? Insane score.  You must have been extremely focused.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

For a lot of courses, if you've been keeping up with the work you don't need to study 16 hours per day for 3 weeks before the exam. A few hours of refresher and you're ready to go.

Or get angry about it. That works too.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

s12345 said:


> What the heck? Insane score.  You must have been extremely focused.


I'll be honest, my actual object limit is around nine. But I can still continue by splitting the blocks into larger groups with specific patterns.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

zookeeper said:


> For a lot of courses, if you've been keeping up with the work you don't need to study 16 hours per day for 3 weeks before the exam. A few hours of refresher and you're ready to go.
> 
> Or get angry about it. That works too.


I'll bet they're not engineering courses or medicine courses. For those you need 20 years in a laboratory of daily extensive research to actually get somewhere. This is no kid's playground..


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Sacrieur said:


> If you truly have a "near photographic" memory this game would be easy for you. It's visual working memory.
> 
> I can tell you what I ate for breakfast last week. I'm not even a visual person and I scored a 42385. That's how I know you people are lying.


My score doesn't matter. I remember what I need/want to remember. I don't give a flying crap about blocks on a screen. Lol.

This test only proves that I'm good at memorizing block patterns. It doesn't show that I can grasp concepts rapidly, solve novel problems on a test, and predict exam questions with one day of preparation. My field isn't easy (although I'm sure people will disagree) and I went to an excellent school.

People have different skills and abilities. Just because someone doesn't study the same way as everyone else (hours and hours), doesn't mean they are lying and can't be successful too. You study a lot. That's great! Do what works for you to kick butt in school. I don't need to study like that for courses in my field of study. That's ok too and I can still be successful. You don't have to believe me...I'm still going to do awesome things with my education.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Primitive Fish said:


> My score doesn't matter. I remember what I need/want to remember. I don't give a flying crap about blocks on a screen. Lol.
> 
> This test only proves that I'm good at memorizing block patterns. It doesn't show that I can grasp concepts rapidly, solve novel problems on a test, and predict exam questions with one day of preparation. My field isn't easy (although I'm sure people will disagree) and I went to an excellent school.
> 
> People have different skills and abilities. Just because someone doesn't study the same way as everyone else (hours and hours), doesn't mean they are lying and can't be successful too. You study a lot. That's great! Do what works for you to kick butt in school. I don't need to study like that for courses in my field of study. That's ok too and I can still be successful. You don't have to believe me...I'm still going to do awesome things with my education.


Don't make claims you can't back up. Like claiming that you have a near photographic memory, but when given a simple test that tests basic visual memory, you make excuses.

The problem is that your dishonesty is causing other people to feel inadequate about their own performance.


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## Anti depressant (Jan 29, 2011)

S12345, I must be one of the people you dislike then. I spent only about 3 hours a day studying. The rest I spend goofing off or doing other things, like, trying to research or apply myself to other aspects of life.

I find research and trying to learn about new things than what you know is more important than just studying. If we just study and keep what we know, then, we won't really get it. If that makes any sense.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad. Really. People have different ways of studying. An A is an A. It doesn't matter how you get there. 

The only reason I responded is that the post is calling people who don't study as much liars. They may not be lying. I can cram study and get an A...but you know what? My retention is terrible. I bet you remember a lot of what you study bc you put the time in. I don't and that's nothing to be proud of lol. Personally, I put little importance on courses. I spend my time doing things like research. I learn so much more that way and I actually enjoy it. I hate class...so I do what I have to do to work less in class and give myself free time to explore other interests.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Anti depressant said:


> S12345, I must be one of the people you dislike then. I spent only about 3 hours a day studying. The rest I spend goofing off or doing other things, like, trying to research or apply myself to other aspects of life.
> 
> I find research and trying to learn about new things than what you know is more important than just studying. If we just study and keep what we know, then, we won't really get it. If that makes any sense.


This is me!!!


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## Melodies0fLife (Sep 17, 2012)

Definitely depends on the type of test too, imo... Multiple choice is easy. You don't have to know everything. Know enough to get by and through logical reasoning, get the correct answer by guessing. That's how I do it. Lol. However, it's a lot harder to get a good grade for short answers/essay exams. Those, you have to study and actually know the material. Well, of course I know there are those who like to brag but...it's not everyone. Well... Just because I study my *** off to get a good grade on an exam, doesn't mean everyone else must have to do the same thing to get the same grade. Some people really are gifted at taking tests or rather, absorbing the information. They go to lecture, only listen to the teacher and that's enough for them. I've seen students too who never come to lecture and just appear for the exam and they still do well. There are people who can just read a book without taking notes and they'd understand what they're reading right away. That's impossible for me, imo, (I need my notes!!) but I have my own talents too; I'm very good at writing. At my old university, I would procrastinate until the day before a paper was due, then I'd start to research/write and I would get the A the next day but other people, like my friends would start a month before but they wouldn't do as well. And this would happen from Freshman year all the way to Senior year. It really depends on people's talents too... It's a big world out there; you can't really deny that these people exist.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

Some of my classmates legitimately never open their books outside of school and ace it.That said I am only in highschool.I'd take such a statement with a pinch of salt if I was in university but 16 hours? That's insane.


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## Iwantham (Sep 7, 2013)

I wish I could pay my schoolwork as much attention as you guys.

Physics and Chemistry put me to sleep within 5 minutes on picking up the book.

I don't know if I'm just lazy or if it's because neither subject has managed to impress me yet. Finals are on friday and I have 3 years worth of material to learn.


:blank


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## Tumbling Destiny (May 13, 2012)

s12345, universities/schools in general can vary widely in terms of effort needed to get the same grade. Furthermore, intelligence and ability to study/learn for tests in school are two things that can be pretty different.

I feel your pain; I'm also one of those people that has to study for quite some time in order to grasp material well enough to do well on tests in university. However, I realize that I am an extremely slow, meticulous learner. I've witnessed many, many of my friends grasp new concepts much more quickly than me. I believe it is definitely within the realm of human capability to study for a high school test in a few hours, and maybe even a university test. I don't think many of these people are blatantly lying. Exaggerating sometimes? Sure. And I do agree that it can be a little insensitive to those of us who take longer. But in the end, we all have our own strengths, and that's what you should focus on.


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## AlchemyFire (Mar 4, 2013)

I can actually compare university and college, in my country at least (I'm Canadian).

College is pretty pathetic here. I got an 85 in chemistry with barely studying. I thought maybe I had a good grasp on it because other people were doing poorly in my class. Then I went to university. Hell, no. I put in about 25 hours a week to learning the material and doing assignments because that's all the time I could afford and came out with a 65. This is even with a personal tutor and spending several hours a week with grad students helping me with it. It was ridiculously hard.

Compare this to my friend. She's studied sociology in both university and college. In university she was getting 50s and was put on academic probation for not getting high enough grades to stay in her program. After transferring to college, similar types of classes? 90 average, and on the president's honour role.

The bottom line is it all depends what school you go to and what subjects you take. If you're in an easy program in college you might not have to study much, but if you're in the hard sciences at university you bet your *** those books are going to be your life.


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## mca90guitar (Sep 12, 2012)

For none technical classes I can do this. But for math, physics, chem and the like I have to study hard.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Melodies0fLife said:


> Definitely depends on the type of test too, imo... Multiple choice is easy. You don't have to know everything. Know enough to get by and through logical reasoning, get the correct answer by guessing. That's how I do it. Lol. However, it's a lot harder to get a good grade for short answers/essay exams. Those, you have to study and actually know the material. Well, of course I know there are those who like to brag but...it's not everyone. Well... Just because I study my *** off to get a good grade on an exam, doesn't mean everyone else must have to do the same thing to get the same grade. Some people really are gifted at taking tests or rather, absorbing the information. They go to lecture, only listen to the teacher and that's enough for them. I've seen students too who never come to lecture and just appear for the exam and they still do well. There are people who can just read a book without taking notes and they'd understand what they're reading right away. That's impossible for me, imo, (I need my notes!!) but I have my own talents too; I'm very good at writing. At my old university, I would procrastinate until the day before a paper was due, then I'd start to research/write and I would get the A the next day but other people, like my friends would start a month before but they wouldn't do as well. And this would happen from Freshman year all the way to Senior year. It really depends on people's talents too... It's a big world out there; you can't really deny that these people exist.


I've asked my own university dean and he told me: the truth is, it is a statistical extremity/rarity. Many students lie about their efforts and grades. We have the statistics to prove this.

So yeah.. anyway, my talents are: drawing, running, sports.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

SaladDays said:


> Some of my classmates legitimately never open their books outside of school and ace it.That said I am only in highschool.I'd take such a statement with a pinch of salt if I was in university but 16 hours? That's insane.


If you ever want to get into medicine or engineering you better study that much. I just at this very moment helped out a fellow student of mine with his engineering problem.. in like 15 minutes, while him and his buddy were taking more than two hours to figure it out and they still couldn't. So how come I figured it out so fast? Because I'm not like them. I don't go out, I don't do sports anymore. In short: I don't get distracted from the material. I am focused on it at all times. I know all the details of the material and it were these details that managed to make me help out the guy quickly. 

I am very curious as to how these so called bright people here manage to study 2500 pages worth of engineering, 2500 pages worth of mathematics in a few days or hours. I mean, really. Study and understand? Sorry, but that just takes me months if not years.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Iwantham said:


> I wish I could pay my schoolwork as much attention as you guys.
> 
> Physics and Chemistry put me to sleep within 5 minutes on picking up the book.
> 
> ...


Hmm.. not interested?

I think this guy does a very good job at getting people interested in chemistry. I would say it's worth having a look at.  He managed to explain it very well for me. ^^


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Tumbling Destiny said:


> s12345, universities/schools in general can vary widely in terms of effort needed to get the same grade. Furthermore, intelligence and ability to study/learn for tests in school are two things that can be pretty different.
> 
> I feel your pain; I'm also one of those people that has to study for quite some time in order to grasp material well enough to do well on tests in university. However, I realize that I am an extremely slow, meticulous learner. I've witnessed many, many of my friends grasp new concepts much more quickly than me. I believe it is definitely within the realm of human capability to study for a high school test in a few hours, and maybe even a university test. I don't think many of these people are blatantly lying. Exaggerating sometimes? Sure. And I do agree that it can be a little insensitive to those of us who take longer. But in the end, we all have our own strengths, and that's what you should focus on.


Indeed they can be pretty different: studying for tests is studying for a pathetic subset of the material you learned, while the ability to study the material and actually learn is a whole different animal.
Yes, I am an extremely slow, meticulous learner as well.  However, for me it has been the opposite.  I watch myself grasp concepts much more quickly than others. Sometimes, they manage to grasp it more quickly than me. I suppose that depends.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

AlchemyFire said:


> I can actually compare university and college, in my country at least (I'm Canadian).
> 
> College is pretty pathetic here. I got an 85 in chemistry with barely studying. I thought maybe I had a good grasp on it because other people were doing poorly in my class. Then I went to university. Hell, no. I put in about 25 hours a week to learning the material and doing assignments because that's all the time I could afford and came out with a 65. This is even with a personal tutor and spending several hours a week with grad students helping me with it. It was ridiculously hard.
> 
> ...


Ok, you just stated two wonderful truths:

1. I put in about 25 hours a week to learning the material and doing assignments because that's all the time I could afford and came out with a 65. This is even with a personal tutor and spending several hours a week with grad students helping me with it. It was ridiculously hard.

2. but if you're in the hard sciences at university you bet your *** those books are going to be your life.

How come no one else realizes this? Maybe because they are not in hard sciences at university like I am. -_- Who knows, maybe they are in some easy college.


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## Primitive Fish (Apr 12, 2013)

Seems like there's a diff between my definition of studying and doing course work....I always go to class and do the work. I usually pick things up in class or take good enough notes that I can figure it out later. The studying for the actual exam takes me no time at all, but this is in my major field (hard science). I do the work, but I don't sit down and study during the semester unless there is a test. This is the scenario in which I can memorize everything for the test in a night. Many of my tests are short answer/essay...so they are more about understanding than memorization. 

If I have trouble with a course (organic chem), I do study for a considerable amount of time. But maybe a week at the most and a few hours a day before the test. It's only in my major that I can get away with not studying because I "get" the material almost instantly. Outside of my major? Forget it. If I ever dared to take a history course I'd die.


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## SaladDays (Nov 26, 2013)

s12345 said:


> If you ever want to get into medicine or engineering you better study that much. I just at this very moment helped out a fellow student of mine with his engineering problem.. in like 15 minutes, while him and his buddy were taking more than two hours to figure it out and they still couldn't. So how come I figured it out so fast? Because I'm not like them. I don't go out, I don't do sports anymore. In short: I don't get distracted from the material. I am focused on it at all times. I know all the details of the material and it were these details that managed to make me help out the guy quickly.
> 
> I am very curious as to how these so called bright people here manage to study 2500 pages worth of engineering, 2500 pages worth of mathematics in a few days or hours. I mean, really. Study and understand? Sorry, but that just takes me months if not years.


That's great and all but I think you're under the impression that university is the meaning of your life,which is fine but don't force that onto others.Most people enjoy having a normal life.Do they pass? Then they're doing something right.Why are you so caught up with what they do?


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

SaladDays said:


> That's great and all but I think you're under the impression that university is the meaning of your life,which is fine but don't force that onto others.Most people enjoy having a normal life.Do they pass? Then they're doing something right.Why are you so caught up with what they do?


Like many people, I can't stand liars.


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## BillDauterive (Oct 24, 2012)

Some people just manage to buck that linear trend. 

For instance, my brother eats exactly as much junk food as me, and does the same little amount of exercise, but he's still skinny as heck while I just keep on packing the pounds. Oh well....that's life for ya. Thanks life, I love you too!!!


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## Meanderer (Apr 2, 2013)

s12345 said:


> I've asked my own university dean and he told me: the truth is, it is a statistical extremity/rarity. Many students lie about their efforts and grades. We have the statistics to prove this.


Is there actual research data on it? I'd be curious enough to read it.

Although I know many people exaggerate about how much they study, I don't think that many flat out lie. I also don't think it's that much of a rarity to come across someone who requires little study time, especially if you're in a better school.

Unfortunately I never really took any difficult classes in college. Most of my gen eds were a joke, just like high school. I don't think I've ever studied for more than an hour for a test in my life. A large majority of the time, if I studied it would be 5-20 minutes before the time of the actual test itself.

This will sound stupid...but what does one do when studying all those hours? I really have trouble imagining it. Is it mostly memorization or learning concepts? With concepts, either you get it or you don't right? Why does it take that long, do people just memorize things until they actually understand the reasoning behind it? Or is it just concepts after concepts in these higher level classes?

Sorry if that sounds dumb, I really just never understood studying except in the form of cramming shortly before hand.


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## Melodies0fLife (Sep 17, 2012)

s12345 said:


> I've asked my own university dean and he told me: the truth is, it is a statistical extremity/rarity. Many students lie about their efforts and grades. We have the statistics to prove this.
> 
> So yeah.. anyway, my talents are: drawing, running, sports.


Well yeah, of course people lie but I'm saying there are people who don't lie and actually do have the ability to just get a good grade with minimum effort. Just that the first post seem to think everyone lies, which annoyed me because it sounded like a one sided viewpoint.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

shiori said:


> I rarely tell anyone my grades. But when I'm asked about my study habits, I do often downplay the amount that I study. That's because I am very insecure about my intelligence (or lack thereof). I'm one of those people who needs to spend a ton of time studying in order to do well. And although it's kind of stupid, I'm also insecure about people thinking I spend all my time studying (I was told several times to my face in high school that I only got good grades because I didn't do anything but study/"had no life"). So that's why I'm not totally honest about it, although I don't brag about my grades either.
> 
> That being said, I know there are people who indeed study very little and manage to do extremely well. But I think some people also lie as well because they're insecure like me.


Yes, when asked, the reflex is always to lie.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Meanderer said:


> Is there actual research data on it? I'd be curious enough to read it.
> 
> Although I know many people exaggerate about how much they study, I don't think that many flat out lie. I also don't think it's that much of a rarity to come across someone who requires little study time, especially if you're in a better school.
> 
> ...


I heard from my dean that the population mean of study time per week is around 63 hours. So that's an average of 9 hours of study time per day outside of classes, which I think is ok and realistic in terms of how hard university is. He didn't tell me the standard deviation yet - even though it is equally important. The outliers though have been confirmed to study around.. what was it.. 25 hours less per week, so that's still 5 hours per day. Those guys who only study 3 hours before an exam are either extreme outliers (I'd say they're in the 99.9th percentile, 3 times the standard deviation) or just liars.

I heard a nice quote once: talent is what is difficult for normal, genius is what is difficult for talent.  I agree with that, because I have a talent for drawing. Back in art school I used to do no effort at all for drawing (surprisingly enough). Like magic, I could just sit down, focus for a few hours and manage to get an A+ on my drawings (but not without breaking a sweat). Other students would sit there for two to three months every week trying to imitate me and watching themselves fail. For some reason, their brain was failing to understand the concepts of perspective and natural colors and how they intertwined. I'm telling you, I have never had such an easy time as in art school. I would just come there totally unprepared and still outperform everyone else. It's a peculiar phenomenon..



> I don't think I've ever studied for more than an hour for a test in my life.


 I dated a doctor (girl) once and she told me it takes the brain a minimum of 20 minutes to even begin focusing. My average focused study time is about 10 hours. When I really want to push it, it goes to 12 or more. 



> A large majority of the time, if I studied it would be 5-20 minutes before the time of the actual test itself.


So are you telling me you can understand chaos math, discrete mathematics, advanced engineering concepts in 20 minutes? Why, you must be a genius! 



> This will sound stupid...but what does one do when studying all those hours? I really have trouble imagining it. Is it mostly memorization or learning concepts? With concepts, either you get it or you don't right? Why does it take that long, do people just memorize things until they actually understand the reasoning behind it? Or is it just concepts after concepts in these higher level classes?


Again, like my ex girlfriend doctor said: the brain does not suffice with a mere blueprint of an idea. The brain has to be endowed in the entire concept before it can fully grasp it. Did you also know it requires 10.000 hours of doing something to become an expert at it? The better part of my study time I spend trying to get it, trying to  learn. Do you realize it took my co-student of 145 IQ an entire month to understand double and triple integrals (I don't have that math yet but I hope I will)? Do you realize it takes a minimum of two hours (and that is if you are very good with it!) to calculate double integrals?! So no, if you want to apply what you learned, one hour is not enough. Why do you think you see so many videos of mathematical professors spending their entire lives working out formulas on a blackboard? Einstein did this until his deathbed. You cannot simply look at advanced physics, mathematics or engineering in an hour and poof, get it. At least for me, I have to read it, over and over, look at examples, look on google, go to my university library, pick up books on it, read them enitrely, trying to apply the examples in those books (that's how I got an A in most of my courses by the way - naturally because it is the recommended way by our university and it works), picking up other books, reading them, understanding them, applying them. Re-reading them entirely, from back to front, trying to see if I focused equally on each little topic and seeing if I really understood each topic. Calling in people to help me, calling in my own university to see if they can find grad students who can help me out, keeping a graph of how much time I spend on studying, filling in that graph, go to the private databases of my research field and pick up/print/download research papers, read them all, trying to link them to the books I read, each hour taking a memorization test, watching Youtube videos on the topic, chatting with other people about the topic.. ok the point is: I spend most of the time trying to understand and learn. And it's actually not much about memorization.. it's just concepts after concepts and that makes it hard.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

Meanderer said:


> Why does it take that long, do people just memorize things until they actually understand the reasoning behind it? Or is it just concepts after concepts in these higher level classes?
> 
> Sorry if that sounds dumb, I really just never understood studying except in the form of cramming shortly before hand.


This is a small summary of one of my tests for statistics101:










Are you saying you could grasp this in one hour? If yes, then I am astonished.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Melodies0fLife said:


> Well yeah, of course people lie but I'm saying there are people who don't lie and actually do have the ability to just get a good grade with minimum effort. Just that the first post seem to think everyone lies, which annoyed me because it sounded like a one sided viewpoint.


Quite a few do, though.

I take offense to it because despite an exceptional memory, I can't do it. I could do it in high school, back when all I had to do was look at a list of twenty or so things while I walked to class the day of a quiz.

But not in college, sans philosophy. And there's always up. Just because you get an A does not mean you're performing well. Usually with a curve it just means you're performing a little bit better than everyone else. It's a shame classes don't take the top student and use them for the curve. But more people would fail then.


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## apx24 (Jan 31, 2012)

s12345 said:


> This is a small summary of one of my tests for statistics101:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look man, there's no point in getting riled up. You study a difficult course, anyone who says that they put little into their work and get good grades are blatant liars.

Only people who study crap and pointless degrees (like me) can get away with coasting.


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## Nessie91 (Jan 5, 2012)

There is one guy in my course last year who was hardly EVER in. This year he is in my course too.. I overheard him talking to this guy he sits beside in class and he asked what was his grades like last year and his response was "Really good maaaan, I got A's" xD

If I had the guts I would have ****ing exposed him for the fraud he is. I hate people who lie about their grades. What do you get out of doing that? Lie all you want, it won't make any difference.


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## Meanderer (Apr 2, 2013)

s12345 said:


> I heard from my dean that the population mean of study time per week is around 63 hours. So that's an average of 9 hours of study time per day outside of classes, which I think is ok and realistic in terms of how hard university is. He didn't tell me the standard deviation yet - even though it is equally important. The outliers though have been confirmed to study around.. what was it.. 25 hours less per week, so that's still 5 hours per day. Those guys who only study 3 hours before an exam are either extreme outliers (I'd say they're in the 99.9th percentile, 3 times the standard deviation) or just liars.
> 
> I heard a nice quote once: talent is what is difficult for normal, genius is what is difficult for talent.  I agree with that, because I have a talent for drawing. Back in art school I used to do no effort at all for drawing (surprisingly enough). Like magic, I could just sit down, focus for a few hours and manage to get an A+ on my drawings (but not without breaking a sweat). Other students would sit there for two to three months every week trying to imitate me and watching themselves fail. For some reason, their brain was failing to understand the concepts of perspective and natural colors and how they intertwined. I'm telling you, I have never had such an easy time as in art school. I would just come there totally unprepared and still outperform everyone else. It's a peculiar phenomenon..


So you believe people who are naturally inclined to art exist, but you don't think there's a significant number of similar people in math and science? Do you think your art abilities are 1 in a thousand then or what?

I went the opposite route as you, even though I'm best at math/science I went into a design field(why I mentioned I had never taken an actual difficult class). I would see numerous kids who would just spout amazing drawings like they've been doing it since they stepped out of the womb. Although they may of not been common, it surely was not just the 99.9th percentile capable of this. Also, I still would be curious to see actual research data on study hours. The idea of studying for 9+ hours a day just blows my mind.



s12345 said:


> I dated a doctor (girl) once and she told me it takes the brain a minimum of 20 minutes to even begin focusing. My average focused study time is about 10 hours. When I really want to push it, it goes to 12 or more.
> 
> So are you telling me you can understand chaos math, discrete mathematics, advanced engineering concepts in 20 minutes? Why, you must be a genius!


I was actually curious what it was like to really study. I've never taken a difficult class, nor did I try to claim I could learn advanced concepts in such low amount of times.

I'm quite envious you can focus for so long. Rather than taking 20 minutes to focus, 20 minutes is more like my cap for how long I can focus.



s12345 said:


> Again, like my ex girlfriend doctor said: the brain does not suffice with a mere blueprint...
> 
> ...it's just concepts after concepts and that makes it hard.


Above shortened for fear of post length. Thanks for this explanation. I had heard rumors of what seriously studying was like, but had not witnessed it. But I'm still not convinced that people who can get away with significantly less study time are some kind of unicorn.


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## InfiniteBlaze (Jan 27, 2011)

Nessie91 said:


> There is one guy in my course last year who was hardly EVER in. This year he is in my course too.. I overheard him talking to this guy he sits beside in class and he asked what was his grades like last year and his response was "Really good maaaan, I got A's" xD
> 
> If I had the guts I would have ****ing exposed him for the fraud he is. I hate people who lie about their grades. What do you get out of doing that? Lie all you want, it won't make any difference.


He probably studied the textbook and only showed up for the exams. Some students actually do that believe it or not. I wouldn't recommend anyone do it though because more and more professors are trying to make people come to classes via participation grades (the bane of my existence even if I do show up) and by handing out assignments not on the syllabus. He will suffer in some classes no matter how well he understands the textbook.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Y'all are getting really angry over the fact that people internalize information in different ways. Maybe you'd get better marks if you spent less time concerned with what other people are doing and more time learning.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

shiori said:


> I'm just saying there's a reason for it. I would honestly prefer if just no one asked me at all.
> 
> I too went to a very academically competitive university and I cannot believe that the average student there spent 9 hours a day studying on top of class time and other activities (extracurriculars, research, etc.) which most students were involved in. 9 hours a day is a lot of study time for one day let alone everyday. I understand that difficult courses require a lot of study time, but to me that seems like a ridiculous amount.


It's still true though. It is our defining normal distribution. It's widely known around campus.


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## s12345 (Jul 11, 2011)

shiori said:


> In any case, I'd be curious to know how that statistic is taken.


Method: from all the people who passed the course, they are asked: "So how many hours did you study?" and each time the number is written down. Finally, a normal distribution model is set up.

Yes I know, that model data can be seriously messed up because many people lie.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

Why does it matter what people say about their grades?


Oh that's right, it doesn't :b


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