# There is no such thing as Social Anxiety Disorder



## Must be the Ganja

Back in the earliest days, the cavemen days, humans still had to reproduce, yet there was no language, no spoken word. We had vocals, so we had vocal tone, but surely we weren't ready to communicate effictively without the aid of body language, eye contact, touching and like I said vocal tone.

If we were able to seduce the opposite sex without words, and make friends with the same sex, then that is hardwired into our genes. You can't fight your genes. If you were born with a passion for engineering, and you admired your father for being a good engineer, you are going to be UNABLE to stay away from engineering.

You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. Why? Because it is NOT a real condition. It is NOT a real illness. It's man-made. It's a disorder invented by doctors and scientists who were trying too hard, to make money. We're a socialised species, it's in our nature to connect and be friends with the humans around us. For a doctor to say that some people are born without the necessary survival skills (not self-survival, I'm talking about the survival of our species) is arrogant beyond beleif, not to mention cruel. 

You want to know what kind of person YOU are, as a "sufferer of SAD"? You are a people person. You have an incontrollable desire to make the other people around you happy. You can't fight it. You can't hide it. You've been blessed with that much sincerity, even if you did your best to stay silent, your natural instincts will fight your mind, and this will manifest itself in the form of blushing, sweating, stuttering, nausea etc. 

The mind is the last sacred thing left. We don't know how it works, and we never will. The will is locked away in the mind. That's why if a surgeon and science team was to cut it open to find out how it works, like it is some sort of man-made machine they want to analyze and fix, your will to live will be tapped, and you will die. 

SAD is a by-product of modern society. The more the man tries to control us, there will be more speculation about mental illnesses and disorders. Speculation, in this sense, is bad. Why would we analyze what CAN go wrong? What COULD be wrong? Will that help the sufferer? To tell them what's wrong, and they must do this, they must take these meds, they must see this expert, to be cured? Cured from an illness, that is locked away inside the mind? Can anyone read minds? Does anyone know how the mind REALLY works? If I didn't know how laptops worked, would you trust me to know what's wrong with YOUR broken laptop? No, you wouldn't, because I don't have the knowledge necessary to diagnose. And neither do the self-proclaimed SAD gurus.

I live in the moment. In school I wanted to speak to everyone, but society taught me to fear strangers. Why should I? Why should I fear my fellow humans? But I listened to society. I feared to make new friends, to become isolated and be alone with my own thoughts. But even then, my thoughts turned outwards to other people. BECAUSE IM A HUMAN, I AM SOCIALISED. I-AM-NOT-HARDWIRED-TO-BE-ALONE. If the earliest humans avoided each other and isolated themselves, we would not be here.

You wanna have a good conversation with a stranger? Make them talk about themselves, and keep that subject going as long as possible. Don't plan the conversation out in your head beforehand. When a man approaches a girl he likes, he will try to plan the interaction, he will visualize a routine and hope it happens. What DOES happen, then? The interaction goes nothing like the way he imagined, and he started stuttering and panicing. This what you do, isn't it? Before you start a conversation with your friends, people your comfortable with, do you try and plan out the conversation? Do you choose a list of topics to arm yourself with beforehand? No. What do you do? You run with it, in the moment. Proper conversation is LIVE and flowing. It's instinctive. It does not require concious thought or any effort on your part. IT...IS...HARDWIRED!!! This is what I am doing now. I am thinking ALOUD. I am typing my thoughts onto this screen as they occur to me. If we were face-to-face, it would NOT be more difficult. It would be EASIER. Why? Because we have body language, vocal tone, eye contact and everything else to help communication.

The only thing in this world that matters, is SURVIVAL in REPLICATION. Love, friends, sex, food, chemicals, water and comfort. Those are the things we're HARDWIRED to seek. All the rest? Such as money, is a means to an end. Most of the material CRAP that money can buy is non-essential. It is BULL****.


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## Must be the Ganja

You want to make people happy.

The compliment the person above you thread has over a 1000 replies. That is some proof.

If you want to understand, deeper, what I'm telling you, then watch the film Fight Club.

You all need to forget this Social Anxiety **** because it's an illusion that is made real by the mind, not unlike the subliminal message underneath the surface of The Matrix film, really. 

Stop trying to force it. Stop thinking with your concious mind. Let go, ffs.


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## Selbbin

You sound like an opinionated, ill-informed, idiotic, film-geek. I love fight club, but if you think that has all the answers, well... that speaks for itself...


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## uhmm doh

Nice post, hope you weren't high on ganja while typing it 

I too hate calling myself a 'sufferer' of SAD. 

I disagree that we don't understand the human mind. We're getting better and better at it. I'm sure every psych student will agree. Yes we're hardwired to be social beings, but some of us are not able to do what we're hardwired for, and that's why its called a mental disorder.

I loved the passion in your post! I could see the flow, the words in caps, the ramble, loved reading it  especially towards the end. I really need to stop planning conversations and allow myself to be in-the-moment. 

So thank you, that ramble towards the end of your post made my day.


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## Must be the Ganja

Selbbin said:


> You sound like an opinionated, ill-informed, idiotic, film-geek. I love fight club, but if you think that has all the answers, well... that speaks for itself...


I am surmising that you think fight club is about fighting, soap, going round pissing people off and the ending - suicide.

"People do it everyday, they talk to themselves, they imagine themselves, as they'd like to be, but no one has the courage you have, to just run with it." - Tyler Durden.

Are you not doing this all the time? Are you imagining yourself being good with people, making them laugh, making them happy, making them comfortable?

I am not a film geek in the slightest. Some films touch me, and I tend to watch and re-watch them. The concepts of the film fight club got me like a needle in the eye, but it was a welcome needle.


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## Must be the Ganja

uhmm doh said:


> Nice post, hope you weren't high on ganja while typing it
> 
> I too hate calling myself a 'sufferer' of SAD.
> 
> I disagree that we don't understand the human mind. We're getting better and better at it. I'm sure every psych student will agree. Yes we're hardwired to be social beings, but some of us are not able to do what we're hardwired for, and that's why its called a mental disorder.
> 
> I loved the passion in your post! I could see the flow, the words in caps, the ramble, loved reading it  especially towards the end. I really need to stop planning conversations and allow myself to be in-the-moment.
> 
> So thank you, that ramble towards the end of your post made my day.


Smoking ganja is self-discovery. Stopping weed is self re-creation. I have stopped and I am now innovating and trying new things. The newest thing for me is making conversation with total strangers, and getting them interested enough to want the conversation continue.

You think we're getting better but in actual fact, the opposite is true, we're getting worse and we're getting so side-tracked that we're actually going to cripple the mind. Depression is nothing more than a hormonal response when the mind stops producing seratonin, hence why chemicals are vital to our survival, like I said in my first post. As seratonin decreases, suicidal thoughts increase. The will power to live is struggling.

Every individual mind is different. Hence why I said a persons will is locked away inside it. You can't do surveys, scientific studies or anything to summarise how the mind works and how to treat whatever illness they're going to imagine next. Have you noticed that the more we study the mind, the more psychological disorders are being created? Humans are creating these illnesses, or the illusion of them, thereof.


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## writingupastorm

Am I really expected to read all this?


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Am I really expected to read all this?


You are not expected to do anything. You must do whatever your will is telling you.

If you look at what drives and motivates a baby. You will notice that they only eat, drink, sleep, cry (seek love and comfort), **** and piss. This is before society has had it's way with them. What's also notable, is that they do it whenever it pleases them, in the moment. That's why they sometimes throw food away and don't sleep much at night.

Babies are remanicent of the earliest humans, as they can't communicate with words, but you can bet your ****ing genitals they'll get what they need, eventually. If you look at what babies need to be happy, the mysteries of what is required for your own happiness are laid bare.

I am rid of my own "SAD" because I have acknowledged that it does not exist. I am having a spontaneous social gathering with my best friend of many years tonite and two beautiful girls, and I can't wait. I am now free to enjoy myself. I am lucky in that respect, becuase it would seem that some people are destined to wallow in their own self-pity, and latch themselves onto the falicy that they're different from everyone else in the mind. And that, my friend, is why your trawling an internet forum collecting sympathy and nice nothings, and shooting down people who are genuinely trying to help you.

Peace and love.


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## Must be the Ganja

You are not anxious posting over an internet forum. It's ironic that people who beleive they don't have the ability to communicate properly can create thousands upon thousands of threads and replies. So why is it easy to communicate on a forum?

Because you have time to think and gague what the "valid" response is, to what is being said. In a live conversation, there is no time to do this, but you try to do it anyway and your concious mind simply cannot keep up. Communication is instinctive and should be taken care of by the sub-concious. This is when the symptoms of "anxiety" begin, when you try too hard and use your concious mind.

If you keep living in the past and worrying about the future, you do NOT exist in the present. And that's why life is passing you by.


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## Must be the Ganja

Alot of people are going to ignore this.

Why?

You are desperate for an external solution to an internal problem. A problem put there by society that is constantly ****ing with people's beleifs. I am telling you to look inside yourself and find the problems there, and the answers there as well. This requires effort. It is far easier to believe that you are different, that you are "ill". The easy option never works, btw. 

I am trying to tell you that you are NOT ill, that you are fine. If you DON'T think that this is a gift in shining golden wrapping paper, then you are ****ing lost.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> Alot of people are going to ignore this.
> 
> Why?


Because you're rambling incessantly? :sus


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## Atticus

I agree that it probably is the ganga.


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## Must be the Ganja

LoL. Your well funny.


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## Must be the Ganja

Atticus said:


> I agree that it probably is the ganga.


You agree that *what* is the ganja, quick wits?


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## Must be the Ganja

I don't think some people are cut out for this positive thinking forum, LoL.


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## cgj93

there is no such thing as oxygen because I cant see it


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## Oblivion

Must be the Ganja said:


> Stop trying to force it. Stop thinking with your concious mind. Let go, ffs.


If only it was as easy as that.

Two years ago I had no idea what SAD was, and I never thought of myself having a mental disorder. I thought I was just too shy. But despite that my life was still so ****ed up.

Imagine not being able to sleep EVERY SINGLE ****ING night before school just because you're too nervous and can't get those scary thoughts out of your head. If this isn't a mental disorder then I don't know what is.

OP, I didn't read all that tl;dr but I can tell it's all bull****. Sorry.


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## fredbloggs02

No need to be rude to people, you diddn't really understand fight club or where it truly came from if this is where it lead you. I've seen fight Club. Good Hollywood, grotesquely Americanized trash in parts Brad Pitt doesn't have all the answers. The film was a crude assortment of ideas from different cultures that take discipline, perserverence and concentration to master of themselves. "FFS LET GO" isn't advice and I promise you if you took that anywhere but the computer it wouldn't serve you for anything but a mind willing to fight you, every step of the way. The computer doesn't bother you enough to really challenge you. Try it now if you don't believe me. Tell yourself to "FFS LET GO" of something that bothers you and see if your mind empties. Even Buddha himself conceded 3 beaths was as far as he could keep entirely in the moment. I could keep my mind clearer than yours for longer simply because letting go is like working a muscle to build and takes practice If you're interested I set up a group to help people out who wanted to learn about meditation and start practising it themselves. http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/groups/meditators-of-sas/ I don't expect you to listen to me though, you'll likely need to experience a fall as I did before you start building on something useful.


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## ratbag

It takes a lot of time to realize it's not real. That is the hard part. You have to actually realize, not just hear it.


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## laura024

uhmm doh said:


> Yes we're hardwired to be social beings, but some of us are not able to do what we're hardwired for, and that's why its called a mental disorder.


This.

You're going to look at babies and cavemen as the basis for how _we_ should live? We are not really like them. Their brains are not well-developed. They don't have the capabilities to think in-depth about what other people think. Their main concern is survival. This is not the case for us modern adults. We have what we need to get by. We also have a significantly larger brain that can produce negative thoughts and feelings of anxiety during social interaction. So I agree that SA _is_ a product of the modern society biologically. And genetically, some people are predisposed to mental disorders. Humans have been around a long time; things go wrong and it's passed down through generations. It's hard to fight nature and "get over" SA. I also have to argue that traumatic past experiences can determine who develops SA, with or without genetic predispositions. The more complex and democratic a society, the more life experiences that can occur.

Nevertheless, social anxiety is quite real. If you say it's imagined, you would have to claim other mental disorders are imagined. And by observing and evaluating people with some other disorders, like schizophrenia, it's a very hard claim to make. If denying its existence gets rid of your anxiety, that's great for you. However, it is not that easy to just ignore for the rest of us.


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## Must be the Ganja

Ok so your all agreeing that we're a social species, that we're hardwired with the need to connect with other humans, but you're also saying that this "disorder" interferes too much with that instinct. Do I have this right?

If so...

The only way this disorder could have possibly began, is that an introverted shy person was simply too scared, they never actually got around to practicing social encounters enough, and they then passed on this gene, this is a lack of experience and conditioning, and it was passed on enough times for the snowball effect to carry it all the way to what we now call "Social Anxiety Disorder". It's man made, and anything man-made eventually returns to the natural world, it obviously can't be any other way.

It's one thing, and one thing only - fear. Like that oblivion guy above me stated, he can't even sleep properly because he fears talking to people so much.

How do you get over fear of heights? You go skydiving! You go to the top of the tallest building you can find, and you look down at the ground and take it all in! What do YOU do? You go and talk to people! You can start off as small as you need to. Your gonna get the symptoms, sure, the person at the top of the building is going to get them as well, but eventually they're going to disappear or become latent enough that NO ONE can tell they fear the height and the potential fall. 

From what I've seen of the replies, you haven't all had it as easy as I have. You have a longer road to salvation than me, maybe. BUT how are we alike? Because I've had the SAME thoughts. I thought I WOULD never be comfortable around people. I NEVER thought I would be popular or have the balls to show my natural charisma and energy. But I do because I took steps, just like you have. Even if you've done NOTHING else but join this website, you have already started, because you've acknowledged that this is a problem, and it can be fixed!

We've all got a personal responsibility to right the wrongs of society. Social Anxiety Disorder is one of these wrongs, and as long as your working through it and returning to your natural, socialised state, then you are doing your bit. 

I've got faith in all of you. And the worse your disorder is, the better your achievments are. Be up for the challenge, but make baby steps first, but DO make them. 

On a side note: laura, you look very attractive in that photo, one day, it will be a group photo!


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## yourfavestoner

I like this new guy.


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## Kennnie

me and you think a lot alike


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## UltraShy

Must be the Ganja said:


> For a doctor to say that some people are born without the necessary survival skills (not self-survival, I'm talking about the survival of our species) is arrogant beyond beleif, not to mention cruel.


To say everyone is born with the necessary survival skills is naive beyond belief.


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## Must be the Ganja

UltraShy said:


> To say everyone is born with the necessary survival skills is naive beyond belief.


My friend...

NO ONE is born with "skills". You are born with instincts. Your instincts are telling you that you MUST connect with people, you just don't have the skills necessary to do it well - yet.

You'll have to excuse what was the wrong choice of word on my part.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> My friend...
> 
> NO ONE is born with "skills". You are born with instincts. Your instincts are telling you that you MUST connect with people, you just don't have the skills necessary to do it well - yet.
> 
> You'll have to excuse what was the wrong choice of word on my part.


But not everyone is born with the same levels of instincts, leading some people to develop low levels of skills in socializing, leading to SA. It's not rocket science.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> But not everyone is born with the same levels of instincts, leading some people to develop low levels of skills in socializing, leading to SA. It's not rocket science.


If you have found some way to measure instincts, pray, show me...

Some people are content and fully happy with a circle of very close friends, and some need to be noticed and loved by as many peple as possible. Is this what you mean?


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## writingupastorm

Maybe it is rocket science. Never mind. Of course SA exists. You didn't make some huge scientific discovery. I'm sorry.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Maybe it is rocket science. Never mind. Of course SA exists. You didn't make some huge scientific discovery. I'm sorry.


I am not a scientist, researcher or a doctor. I am more of a philosopher.

Don't apologise, the only one that warrants any sympathy is you.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Maybe it is rocket science. Never mind. Of course SA exists. You didn't make some huge scientific discovery. I'm sorry.





> Alot of people are going to ignore this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> You are desperate for an external solution to an internal problem.


One should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity. I am VERY sorry.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> I am not a scientist, researcher or a doctor. I am more of a philosopher.
> 
> Don't apologise, the only one that warrants any sympathy is you.


Did you ever stop to think that your metaphysical rambling might actually cause a couple people to stop working on their SA and they could lose a couple years of progress because of it before they realize it was all just philosophical nonsense?

And yes, I do need sympathy. I have a cold and I'm going through klonopin withdrawal. Thank you.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Did you ever stop to think that your metaphysical rambling might actually cause a couple people to stop working on their SA and they could lose a couple years of progress because of it before they realize it was all just philosophical nonsense?
> 
> And yes, I do need sympathy. I have a cold and I'm going through klonopin withdrawal. Thank you.





> What do you do? You run with it, in the moment. Proper conversation is LIVE and flowing. It's instinctive. It does not require concious thought or any effort on your part. IT...IS...HARDWIRED!!! This is what I am doing now. I am thinking ALOUD.


No, friend, I am not stopping to think.

Sorry about the cold, but not nearly as sorry as I am for your attitude, your determination to ruin a positive thread and your inability to read and understand what I am writing down.

In your mind, this is incessant ramble, so why are you still reading and replying?

I'll tell you - because you know I am right. Either get in line or go and read more scientific studies, because they're obviously going to help you, aren't they?


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Did you ever stop to think that your metaphysical rambling might actually cause a couple people to stop working on their SA and they could lose a couple years of progress because of it before they realize it was all just philosophical nonsense?
> 
> And yes, I do need sympathy. I have a cold and I'm going through klonopin withdrawal. Thank you.


In addition, they could waste years on philosophical nonsense, or they could waste their entire lives waiting for a scientific breakthrough that might, and probobly won't happen.

Every individual will is different, it's locked away in their mind. It's up to them.


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## Must be the Ganja




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## Brightpaperwarewolf

At least you smoke good ganja, I give you that. Message is good, but you sound high as a kite.


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## Must be the Ganja

When I registered on this website I was a heavy, habitual cannabis smoker. Look at my join date.

I have since kicked this habit. 

I was never this clear about my ideas when I was high - because it made me THINK way too much. It made me anxious, it made my latent SAD return 1000 times stronger, but I was so ****ing depressed, the 5 minutes of euphoria to be had from smoking a joint were worth it, at the time. 

I've done years 5 years of soul searching, and made many trials and therefore many errors. And now I'm starting to collect proof, with every girl I date, with every friend I make, that the answers were ALWAYS within me. 

If I sound high - that is fine. Alot of sober people are too boring to listen to these days - but you already know that.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

I'm happy you are finding your way and harnessing a positive energy and the fact you sound like you smoke ganja without the ganja is quite an accomplishment.


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## Tamiele

I am new to the board and only recently wondered if SAD is my issue. I know I am fearful and it is creating SAD based on that, so I am still in the process of dicovery to determine the root of the problem. The OP made some interesting points. I liked the idea that we should interact with others without an agenda - just be in the moment - and let the conversation be about them, not us. Basically How To Win Friends and Influence People comes to mind. I think it is great to share ideas, after all, we are all trying to figure out what makes us tick and to do something about it. My advice would be if you want people to listen to your points of view, it would be better received if you didn't slap them in the side of the head at the same time by being so critical of SAD. Whether you believe it or not - people are of different opinions and I think whatever helps the next guy and can give him a measure of peace - and perhaps help him/her to do one thing today that breaks them out of their comfort zones - is a good thing. Maybe as time goes on, others might even come to the same conclusions as you do - but it won't happen if you brow beat them at the same time. jmo.


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## jijiji

Must be the Ganja said:


> Smoking ganja is self-discovery. Stopping weed is self re-creation. I have stopped and I am now innovating and trying new things. The newest thing for me is making conversation with total strangers, and getting them interested enough to want the conversation continue.
> 
> You think we're getting better but in actual fact, the opposite is true, we're getting worse and we're getting so side-tracked that we're actually going to cripple the mind. Depression is nothing more than a hormonal response when the mind stops producing seratonin, hence why chemicals are vital to our survival, like I said in my first post. As seratonin decreases, suicidal thoughts increase. The will power to live is struggling.
> 
> Every individual mind is different. Hence why I said a persons will is locked away inside it. You can't do surveys, scientific studies or anything to summarise how the mind works and how to treat whatever illness they're going to imagine next. Have you noticed that the more we study the mind, the more psychological disorders are being created? Humans are creating these illnesses, or the illusion of them, thereof.


i agree with all of this. it's hard to admit when you're in pain that this stuff really is just a product of modern society. how are you supposed to admit to that when the pain you feel is very real? yet, admitting to this is the key to recovery

i agree with this wholeheartedly:



Must be the Ganja said:


> Stop trying to force it. Stop thinking with your concious mind. Let go, ffs.


that's the secret. just let go. it might seem like the hardest thing in the world to do, but actually it's the easiest

there is no simple, quick, easy, magical solution. no easy move that you can utilize to make yourself BE

it is just... FORCING yourself..

MAKE yourself. DO it. JUST be. TRY and try until you can let go. and then you'll find that to let go................ you eventually stop trying. because that is what it means, to not try to be anything, not even to try to 'just be'

make yourself let go for a while

walk outside, in the dark, on a cold night, breathe everything in.... and let everything go

your world is just as perfect as it is now... and you are just fine too


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## paulyD

Must be the Ganja said:


> Back in the earliest days, the cavemen days, humans still had to reproduce, yet there was no language, no spoken word. We had vocals, so we had vocal tone, but surely we weren't ready to communicate effictively without the aid of body language, eye contact, touching and like I said vocal tone.
> 
> If we were able to seduce the opposite sex without words, and make friends with the same sex, then that is hardwired into our genes. You can't fight your genes. If you were born with a passion for engineering, and you admired your father for being a good engineer, you are going to be UNABLE to stay away from engineering.
> 
> You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. Why? Because it is NOT a real condition. It is NOT a real illness. It's man-made. It's a disorder invented by doctors and scientists who were trying too hard, to make money. We're a socialised species, it's in our nature to connect and be friends with the humans around us. For a doctor to say that some people are born without the necessary survival skills (not self-survival, I'm talking about the survival of our species) is arrogant beyond beleif, not to mention cruel.
> 
> You want to know what kind of person YOU are, as a "sufferer of SAD"? You are a people person. You have an incontrollable desire to make the other people around you happy. You can't fight it. You can't hide it. You've been blessed with that much sincerity, even if you did your best to stay silent, your natural instincts will fight your mind, and this will manifest itself in the form of blushing, sweating, stuttering, nausea etc.
> 
> The mind is the last sacred thing left. We don't know how it works, and we never will. The will is locked away in the mind. That's why if a surgeon and science team was to cut it open to find out how it works, like it is some sort of man-made machine they want to analyze and fix, your will to live will be tapped, and you will die.
> 
> SAD is a by-product of modern society. The more the man tries to control us, there will be more speculation about mental illnesses and disorders. Speculation, in this sense, is bad. Why would we analyze what CAN go wrong? What COULD be wrong? Will that help the sufferer? To tell them what's wrong, and they must do this, they must take these meds, they must see this expert, to be cured? Cured from an illness, that is locked away inside the mind? Can anyone read minds? Does anyone know how the mind REALLY works? If I didn't know how laptops worked, would you trust me to know what's wrong with YOUR broken laptop? No, you wouldn't, because I don't have the knowledge necessary to diagnose. And neither do the self-proclaimed SAD gurus.
> 
> I live in the moment. In school I wanted to speak to everyone, but society taught me to fear strangers. Why should I? Why should I fear my fellow humans? But I listened to society. I feared to make new friends, to become isolated and be alone with my own thoughts. But even then, my thoughts turned outwards to other people. BECAUSE IM A HUMAN, I AM SOCIALISED. I-AM-NOT-HARDWIRED-TO-BE-ALONE. If the earliest humans avoided each other and isolated themselves, we would not be here.
> 
> You wanna have a good conversation with a stranger? Make them talk about themselves, and keep that subject going as long as possible. Don't plan the conversation out in your head beforehand. When a man approaches a girl he likes, he will try to plan the interaction, he will visualize a routine and hope it happens. What DOES happen, then? The interaction goes nothing like the way he imagined, and he started stuttering and panicing. This what you do, isn't it? Before you start a conversation with your friends, people your comfortable with, do you try and plan out the conversation? Do you choose a list of topics to arm yourself with beforehand? No. What do you do? You run with it, in the moment. Proper conversation is LIVE and flowing. It's instinctive. It does not require concious thought or any effort on your part. IT...IS...HARDWIRED!!! This is what I am doing now. I am thinking ALOUD. I am typing my thoughts onto this screen as they occur to me. If we were face-to-face, it would NOT be more difficult. It would be EASIER. Why? Because we have body language, vocal tone, eye contact and everything else to help communication.
> 
> The only thing in this world that matters, is SURVIVAL in REPLICATION. Love, friends, sex, food, chemicals, water and comfort. Those are the things we're HARDWIRED to seek. All the rest? Such as money, is a means to an end. Most of the material CRAP that money can buy is non-essential. It is BULL****.


i wholeheartedly disagree with u 100%


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## pinkcupcake

I see what you are saying though I don't believe in cavemen. Years ago, there were no meds, no psychiatrists, etc. Now theres a drug for everything! Our fast paced society is what is causing these problems and society dictates how you are to live- you have to wake up at this hour, eat at this time, etc even ADD- was that a real problem 200 years ago? I think all the electronic, tv, government, etc is ruining our lives.


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## Must be the Ganja

Tamiele said:


> I am new to the board and only recently wondered if SAD is my issue. I know I am fearful and it is creating SAD based on that, so I am still in the process of dicovery to determine the root of the problem. The OP made some interesting points. I liked the idea that we should interact with others without an agenda - just be in the moment - and let the conversation be about them, not us. Basically How To Win Friends and Influence People comes to mind. I think it is great to share ideas, after all, we are all trying to figure out what makes us tick and to do something about it. My advice would be if you want people to listen to your points of view, it would be better received if you didn't slap them in the side of the head at the same time by being so critical of SAD. Whether you believe it or not - people are of different opinions and I think whatever helps the next guy and can give him a measure of peace - and perhaps help him/her to do one thing today that breaks them out of their comfort zones - is a good thing. Maybe as time goes on, others might even come to the same conclusions as you do - but it won't happen if you brow beat them at the same time. jmo.


I see it like this...

This is a positive thinking forum, and this thread is a positive one. What could be more positive than eliminating the reality of Social Anxiety Disorder, and to stop thinking of yourself as disadvantaged?

If you were in a 100m sprint race, and you stood at the starting block convincing yourself that you were slower than ALL of your opponents, are you going to win? Are you going to even BEGIN the race? Or are you just gonna stand there wallowing and defeat yourself?

People should not reply to this thread if they're going to call my ideas bull****, because others are positive enough to realise that this philosphy could work. Would these same people go into a catholic church and claim Jesus never existed? No, they wouldn't. There is NOTHING to be gained by calling other people's beleifs total bull****. They're just that, beleifs.

OR if your going to disagree, atleast tell me why. Atleast illustrate with examples and real life scenarios. Do this by PM if you need to. Because I swear to God, not a single one of the skeptics in this thread have given me a reason to doubt myself yet, all they've given me is their own assurances that I am completely wrong. And that, THAT, is not enough to work on me.

Live with the fear. Let your SAD motivate you to start more conversations, because your a 1000 times braver than the other person standing there with you, the one with the polished social skills (I've noticed very few people have these, btw, especially among the younger generation). You go out and talk to people, as a person with SAD, and that makes you a ****ing soldier.

A brave person is not someone who acts without fear, it's someone who feels fear, but acts anyway.

It's gonna be hard at first, and that's why my respect for you is that high. Imagine a fat guy who smokes 30 a day going on the treadmill for the first time in years, if you will. He's going to ****ing DESPISE the affect it has on him, but it will be well worth it when he gets to where he wants to be. You want to be socialised and comfortable speaking and communicating. You struggle with it, the fatman struggles with running, but the more he does, the easier it becomes. There is no med he can take that will magically make him an athlete, and there isn't for you. There are no magic fixes, like the guy above me said, only what works.

Socialising, unfortuantely, is fast becoming a skill that MUST be self-taught. In school we learn crap like how to add and subtract, how clouds form and rain falls, what happens to magnesium when it's burned, what the ancient egyptians built and what names they gave to their leaders...but we DON'T learn about relationships, respect, friendship, loyalty, conversation, laughter, humour etc. and if you don't learn that from your parents then you have yourself a problem. A problem, but a fixable one.


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## Must be the Ganja

Just to clarify another thing....

I am not actually anti-meds like it might come accross.

Meds are helpful. They can grease the gears and help them rotate more smoothly. As long as they're not seen as the solution, they are not, but I think you all have the common sense and the info from the doctors to know that. But don't get too deep into that ****, trying to find the perfect medicine for you, because finding the right medicine is not the aim here. Your just looking for whatever can help you. 

They will alter the chemical balance of your brain, and put together with my philosphy, easing the symptoms of anxiety will help you beleive that anxiety is not actually real. It's just fear. THEN, your in a better position to act. 

But meds are easy, man. Don't rely on them.


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## Tamiele

I am still making my way through your post. It has some great stuff. I wanted to comment on what you said about how giving SAD a label and wearing it can psychologically still make you feel at a disadvantage. I can only speak for myself but I have been floundering around wondering what is my problem, and I felt sort of liberated to see a name to it and to find a community of folks who feel like I do. I don't see it as a disadvantage but a jumping-off point to getting my head on straight. I have ordered some materials to work through at home here and begin to overcome. Like I said, I think the root of my problem is still not known but I hope that by following some of the therapy for this particular disorder, it will help lead me to it. Hope that makes sense.


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## Must be the Ganja

Tamiele said:


> I am still making my way through your post. It has some great stuff. I wanted to comment on what you said about how giving SAD a label and wearing it can psychologically still make you feel at a disadvantage. I can only speak for myself but I have been floundering around wondering what is my problem, and I felt sort of liberated to see a name to it and to find a community of folks who feel like I do. I don't see it as a disadvantage but a jumping-off point to getting my head on straight. I have ordered some materials to work through at home here and begin to overcome. Like I said, I think the root of my problem is still not known but I hope that by following some of the therapy for this particular disorder, it will help lead me to it. Hope that makes sense.


Ok I see your way of thinking. I was the same with depression. I was releived that I had a diagnoses tbh. All that time I was miserable, refused to make eye contact, couldn't enjoy the things I used to, couldn't sleep properly, couldn't look people in the eyes or be interested in talking to them and felt the suicidal fantasies I had becoming realistic, viable options - I thought it was my own fault entirely, when actually it was nothing more than my brain not pumping out enough seratonin and dophamine. Alot of people are worried when they're diagnosed with something like that, but like you, I was pleased, I seen it as a first step...a foundation to build from.

BUT...is depression really the problem? My REAL problem was, I wasn't happy. Depression was an obstacle in the way of my happiness, it was a roadblock. Getting rid of depression is not the aim, being happy is. That's what I mean. Social Anxiety Disorder is not your problem, being uncomfortable around people is, and SAD/shyness is a major roadblock in the way of your social salvation.

I wish I could help you more closely. I wish I could meet up with you in person, get to know you, make you reveal yourself to me, and then we could go round and make conversation with strangers. This is what doctors etc should be doing with this "illness". They should take a practical approach to it. But thanks to limited resources, they cannot.


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## TenYears

You make some good points, but I don't think it's as easy as just "thinking" or willing my way out of my situation.

Bottom line is, people do not want to suffer.

I don't spend hundreds, thousands of $ a month on therapy, miss work, miss my kids baseball games, put most of the "social" responsibility that comes with being a parent all on my wife's shoulders because I like to. It's not fun. The aftermath, the arguments, from my wife and the inlaws and my family and her friends and everyone F*ing else...it's not fun.

I do not enjoy this. At all. I'm a miserable, f****** miserable human being. Ask any of my wife's friends (I don't have any of my own). I self-medicate with alcohol, on top of meds. Sometimes I black out. All this is not fun for me.

If the solution was right there in front of me, if I could just accept that this isn't real, why wouldn't I have done so?

I liked the Tyler Durden clip, but I have some issues with a lot of what was said. *Bad emotions are a valid excuse not to act??? *That explains social or generalized anxiety disorder? I get up and go to work every day, to a job I absolutely, totally fing hate, I close my office door, it's kept closed for 8-12 hours a day, there are days when I say "hey" and "see ya" if that much to the people I work with. But I do get up and go to work every day, despite my emotions telling me to stay home, keep the doors locked, and the shades drawn. I use that philosophy to get my * to work, because I have to bring home a paycheck or my family will be homeless. I get the job done, and I leave when it's done, end of story. Social interactions and getting through really uncomfortable social situations are totally different, man. That's where I get lost in this whole, "you just feel bad", or don't want to man up to do what you have to do philosophy. It doesn't make sense to me.

My 3 kids have started to get old enuf to notice, just a little bit, that I get anxious sometimes. Me & my wife fight about it, constantly. Divorce has come up a lot lately.

If it was as easy as you suggested, if it was acknowledging that this was all in your head (which in a way, it is), why don't I make life easier for myself? I agree it sort of is all in my head, I mean, it's not a physical disability, but if it was a) b) c) just do this, just do that as you suggest, I wouldn't be here typing this. Instead of having insomnia & trying to forget and beat myself up over todays (yesterdays) social f*ups, I'd be just getting home from a night out with the guys, maybe bar-hopping. Maybe me & the wife would've went out on an actual date, something that hasn't happened in years. Maybe all kinds of ****, but no I'm a nervous fing wreck that can't sleep, trying to find others on this board that think like me, to reassure myself that I'm not the only one out there, that I'm not crazy.

And I do this because I want to? The solution is right there, as you suggest, but I would rather be this miserable, because I choose to? That's crazy, man....


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## wickedtruth

I agree with Ganja but you missed out some key points on what created SAD. I think people will understand you better if you clear up more on the why.

As above post pointed out - It is life experiences that put you in that position. The stress that our society gives to us is something that becoming debatable on whether our mind can cope with it.

Overload a computer and what does it do? Over heat and shut down.

There are human beings that want the easiest trip through life and the life society planted out for us is far from easy. It is facing a wide range of choices and being under pressure to make the right one. At such a young age, you feel you must choose a career for life because society told you to - 'What are you going to do when you leave school?' is being programed into our mind and emotions are born out of it - which add on to what we currently have. As in, before someone asked you this - you didnt give a flying monkey about what you are going to do after school. Until other people/media made you aware. Does this explain better on how SAD is man-made? It's peer pressure, and peer is society as well. It's poorly informed. If the child was made aware that there is no pressure to get a career straight away and explore oneself first would be ideal - that would be healthier for the human mind so it can do self discovery without the expectation/pressure from society. But society cannot allow it to happen because it need control on us. Those that escaped from it control are shunned from society - the irony.
We have so much expected from each and every one of us. It produce these phantom emotions.

This is only one of many areas as SAD is very broad.

I will back up Ganja - A baby is born with a brain that is exactly the same 30,000years ago. Society is trying to program us into mindless drones - Tell me when we are REALLY free as society claim that we are more free then ever... 
If so, that we are 'free', is the freedom to make choices something that human minds cannot cope with?

We are adaptable creatures and I think SAD is created in our mind as a way to adapt and cope - I believe it because at a young age, we are more encouraged to detach then resort to our natural instinct of 'fight or flight'.
Mummy tell you off for punching the kid who laughed at you - little kid doesnt understand that he/she need to tell mother the reason why he punched the kid -and running away is not an option - it is inflicted by others, a weak thing to do and human beings need to survive - weak dont survive. I mean, when a kid run away, others laugh at him for being wimpy. In the kid mind, he doesnt understand whats the right thing to do - so he withdraw in himself. I know I have not explained this well but my point being our society doesnt make things clear and expect us to lump it. Which is why parenting is sooooo important as the mother should of explained better to the child and taught him how to cope.

Parenting/family is important in this time and age - sadly society yet to realise that. Communication is the key but how do we know what to ask to get a clear understanding? 

Self discovery is restricted because our memories can only hold so much. Hardly anyone remember what happened before the age of 3.

Ganja, it is refreshing to read your posts and Im sad to see people quick to shoot you down with no real explantion.

My theory is, they need this phantom to hide behind - sub conciously because the world is a lot bigger and meaner then our mind can cope. Get out there and have a truckload of stress piled on top or hide away and be free from stress. 
Stress could be anything to simply talking to someone to working in a job to getting married to doing school work - stress is everywhere.

Turn off the computer and let it cool down - same with the mind. As in doing things that relax you. Mine is horse riding. Its just me and the horse - my problems are left outside the stable yard.

As for making friends - I have yet to solve that but I have a real condition that stop me - Im deaf and it is very anti social disability. People dont have the patience for me. You have to repeat 5/6 times with me as I lip read. We live in a rush rush society. No, I dont know how to sign. So it narrow my option. We live in a sterotyping society but thats another debate altogether.

Wickedtruth.


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## Must be the Ganja

Hey man, I ALREADY like you. Why? Because you've just opened up to me, you're emotions just washed over me along with a large wave of sincerity and pain. So now, I'm feeling it. I can tell your so far down the deep, dark road that you have forgotton what the memory of light even ****ing looks like. You cling to those meds, you chase the bottom of an alcohol filled glass, (like I did with joints) because that temporary respite (and sometimes it's not even worthy of the name respite) makes it all bearable for a while. 

You've already hit what alot of people would agree to be "rock bottom". If you keep going like this, your going to re-define rock bottom, your going to dig to a new rock bottom. What can you do? You HAVE to start again. You HAVE to tell people of your plight, including your kids, you can't hide it, and it will drive you mad trying. Your kids need you, love you, you are their model for God, and their God CANNOT hide ANYTHING from them, because they're always gonna look to you and your wife, man. 

You are dealing with this all on your own. This makes your power of will stronger than a generous percentage of the population. How can opening up a little to your colleagues, to your wife, to your wives friends, POSSIBLY be more uncomfortable than your current quality of life? I'll tell you why - because your mind is telling you so. It is ALL in your mind. It will take a gigantic leap of faith at first, but watch what happens when you open up to someone, like you just did to me. And I don't mean a therapist, a counseller, a doctor or ANYONE who earns a paycheque to listen to you. I'm talking about a PERSON. 

If it doesn't go the way you wanted it to at first - come back and talk to me. I've got faith, you CAN do this. FIGHT!

...your already fighting, but unfortunately, it's a losing battle that your fighting, and you deserve to be a winner.


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## Must be the Ganja

wickedtruth said:


> I agree with Ganja but you missed out some key points on what created SAD. I think people will understand you better if you clear up more on the why.
> 
> As above post pointed out - It is life experiences that put you in that position. The stress that our society gives to us is something that becoming debatable on whether our mind can cope with it.
> 
> Overload a computer and what does it do? Over heat and shut down.
> 
> There are human beings that want the easiest trip through life and the life society planted out for us is far from easy. It is facing a wide range of choices and being under pressure to make the right one. At such a young age, you feel you must choose a career for life because society told you to - 'What are you going to do when you leave school?' is being programed into our mind and emotions are born out of it - which add on to what we currently have. As in, before someone asked you this - you didnt give a flying monkey about what you are going to do after school. Until other people/media made you aware. Does this explain better on how SAD is man-made? It's peer pressure, and peer is society as well. It's poorly informed. If the child was made aware that there is no pressure to get a career straight away and explore oneself first would be ideal - that would be healthier for the human mind so it can do self discovery without the expectation/pressure from society. But society cannot allow it to happen because it need control on us. Those that escaped from it control are shunned from society - the irony.
> We have so much expected from each and every one of us. It produce these phantom emotions.
> 
> This is only one of many areas as SAD is very broad.
> 
> I will back up Ganja - A baby is born with a brain that is exactly the same 30,000years ago. Society is trying to program us into mindless drones - Tell me when we are REALLY free as society claim that we are more free then ever...
> If so, that we are 'free', is the freedom to make choices something that human minds cannot cope with?
> 
> We are adaptable creatures and I think SAD is created in our mind as a way to adapt and cope - I believe it because at a young age, we are more encouraged to detach then resort to our natural instinct of 'fight or flight'.
> Mummy tell you off for punching the kid who laughed at you - little kid doesnt understand that he/she need to tell mother the reason why he punched the kid -and running away is not an option - it is inflicted by others, a weak thing to do and human beings need to survive - weak dont survive. I mean, when a kid run away, others laugh at him for being wimpy. In the kid mind, he doesnt understand whats the right thing to do - so he withdraw in himself. I know I have not explained this well but my point being our society doesnt make things clear and expect us to lump it. Which is why parenting is sooooo important as the mother should of explained better to the child and taught him how to cope.
> 
> Parenting/family is important in this time and age - sadly society yet to realise that. Communication is the key but how do we know what to ask to get a clear understanding?
> 
> Self discovery is restricted because our memories can only hold so much. Hardly anyone remember what happened before the age of 3.
> 
> Ganja, it is refreshing to read your posts and Im sad to see people quick to shoot you down with no real explantion.
> 
> My theory is, they need this phantom to hide behind - sub conciously because the world is a lot bigger and meaner then our mind can cope. Get out there and have a truckload of stress piled on top or hide away and be free from stress.
> Stress could be anything to simply talking to someone to working in a job to getting married to doing school work - stress is everywhere.
> 
> Turn off the computer and let it cool down - same with the mind. As in doing things that relax you. Mine is horse riding. Its just me and the horse - my problems are left outside the stable yard.
> 
> As for making friends - I have yet to solve that but I have a real condition that stop me - Im deaf and it is very anti social disability. People dont have the patience for me. You have to repeat 5/6 times with me as I lip read. We live in a rush rush society. No, I dont know how to sign. So it narrow my option. We live in a sterotyping society but thats another debate altogether.
> 
> Wickedtruth.


Man this is a ****ing awesome post and if people don't have the patients to recieve your opinion, your insights and your ability to get them across effectively then more fool them, **** them, THEY are missing out. Don't YOU feel bad. 

There's a guy who gets in a social club round the corner from me. He was a welder back in the day, and he got mouth cancer and he needed his tongue cut out in order to save his life. What does he do now to socialise? He walks around with a notepad and paper, he used hand gestures, body language, facial expressions and touching to communicate. About 7% of communication is verbal, and he is walking proof of this because he's one of the most popular guys in the club, everyone knows his story and they make time for him to write because they have much respect for the guy. He doesn't NEED the spoken word to be part of it all.

Moral of the story. Don't put too much weight on the spoken word, like EVERYONE does these days. Everyone knows the correct thing to say, but everyone also has an ability to judge sincerity. If your forcing yourself to say the right thing, to get a positive reaction, then you will be shot down weather you said the right thing or not. Why do you think gorgeous women can shoot down men who approach them, so easily? These men look anxious because they're trying too hard to impress the woman, and this is visible from a mile off (through body language, vocal tone, eye contact and so on).

Society has limitless forms of control over us. But they CANNOT control us at will unless we let it. Stop trying to control everything, and just LET GO.


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## Must be the Ganja




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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Must be the Ganja said:


> Man this is a ****ing awesome post and if people don't have the patients to recieve your opinion, your insights and your ability to get them across effectively then more fool them, **** them, THEY are missing out. Don't YOU feel bad.
> 
> There's a guy who gets in a social club round the corner from me. He was a welder back in the day, and he got mouth cancer and he needed his tongue cut out in order to save his life. What does he do now to socialise? He walks around with a notepad and paper, he used hand gestures, body language, facial expressions and touching to communicate. About 7% of communication is verbal, and he is walking proof of this because he's one of the most popular guys in the club, everyone knows his story and they make time for him to write because they have much respect for the guy. He doesn't NEED the spoken word to be part of it all.
> 
> Moral of the story. Don't put too much weight on the spoken word, like EVERYONE does these days. Everyone knows the correct thing to say, but everyone also has an ability to judge sincerity. If your forcing yourself to say the right thing, to get a positive reaction, then you will be shot down weather you said the right thing or not. Why do you think gorgeous women can shoot down men who approach them, so easily? These men look anxious because they're trying too hard to impress the woman, and this is visible from a mile off (through body language, vocal tone, eye contact and so on).
> 
> Society has limitless forms of control over us. But they CANNOT control us at will unless we let it. Stop trying to control everything, and just LET GO.


That's the opposite from what I observed, especially watching my friend last night. The ones who approach easily and casually are the ones that are successful. Any hesitation and you have lost.


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## fredbloggs02

God bless you Brad Pitt you superhuman, you brigand! Yes yes society is to blame and we'd all be fine if we were Burt Reynolds. Grossly over-simplified I'm afraid as any Historian, psychologist or philosopher from this site will tell you.

If you were following fight club code lol blaming society wouldn't even be part of how you went about getting cured, it would be taking responsibility and attacking it not moping around winging about it whilst insulting other people in some quasi Buddhist, philosopher, fight club apprentice fashion I feel you've misinterpreted. GOD BLESS YOU BRAD PITT, you superhuman, you brigand!


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## Must be the Ganja

fredbloggs02 said:


> God bless you Brad Pitt you superhuman, you briand! Yes yes society is to blame and we'd all be fine if we were Burt Reynolds. Grossly over-simplified I'm afraid as any Historian, psychologist or philosopher from this site will tell you.
> 
> If you were following fight club code lol blaming society wouldn't even be part of how you went about getting cured, it would be taking responsibility and attacking it not moping around winging about it whilst insulting other people in some quasi Buddhist, philosopher, fight club apprentice fashion I feel you've misinterpreted. GOD BLESS YOU BRAD PITT, you superhuman, you brigand!


I am blaming society for the creation of social anxiety disorder, but I am blaming you for listening to society. I am afraid that you are the one who has misinterpreted, my friend.



Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> That's the opposite from what I observed, especially watching my friend last night. The ones who approach easily and casually are the ones that are successful. Any hesitation and you have lost.


This is what I meant. By easy, I meant how can the woman shoot some men down so easily. Because they have a sixth sense for hesitation and anxiety and can smell it from a mile off. You, also, misinterpreted.

He who hesitates, masturbates.

But, atleast your reading, and willing to call me on any errors you think I have made.

And also, the quotes of philosphers and historians are still echoed today. We'll see how many scientists and doctors are remembered a couple years down the line, shall we?


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## writingupastorm

I'm actually huge on facing fears, you wouldn't even believe me if I told you about how I grew up. I think it's just the title "no such thing as SA" and the long posts that are turning me off. I'm not going to expend valuable energy and time to read long posts from somebody who I've never heard of who doesn't even believe that social anxiety exists. At least explain the thread title in 50 words or less if you want me to read any of it.


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## Must be the Ganja

fredbloggs02 said:


> God bless you Brad Pitt you superhuman, you briand! Yes yes society is to blame and we'd all be fine if we were Burt Reynolds. Grossly over-simplified I'm afraid as any Historian, psychologist or philosopher from this site will tell you.
> 
> If you were following fight club code lol blaming society wouldn't even be part of how you went about getting cured, it would be taking responsibility and attacking it not moping around winging about it whilst insulting other people in some quasi Buddhist, philosopher, fight club apprentice fashion I feel you've misinterpreted. GOD BLESS YOU BRAD PITT, you superhuman, you brigand!


I find this post sarcastic, rude, arrogant and your attitude verrrrryyy bad. YOUR social anxiety disorder, (your inability to connect with people and generate love and comfort), is perhaps nothing more than a smoke screen, an external scapegoat for your disgusting attitude...THAT being the REAL reason your unable to do the things listed in brackets. Observe my posts, have I done anything other than try to help those who are listening to me, and dismiss the one's (including yourself) who question me?

If your looking for a quick and easy put-down to ease your ego imbalance, I suggest you get up and take your tiny testicles and go to a different thread, because you have not found here, Frederick.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> I'm actually huge on facing fears, you wouldn't even believe me if I told you about how I grew up. I think it's just the title "no such thing as SA" and the long posts that are turning me off. I'm not going to expend valuable energy and time to read long posts from somebody who I've never heard of who doesn't even believe that social anxiety exists. At least explain the thread title in 50 words or less if you want me to read any of it.


If your huge on facing fears, perhaps you should face your fear of long posts?

There is no Social Anxiety Disorder - only fear.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Must be the Ganja said:


> I am blaming society for the creation of social anxiety disorder, but I am blaming you for listening to society. I am afraid that you are the one who has misinterpreted, my friend.
> 
> This is what I meant. By easy, I meant how can the woman shoot some men down so easily. Because they have a sixth sense for hesitation and anxiety and can smell it from a mile off. You, also, misinterpreted.
> 
> He who hesitates, masturbates.
> 
> But, atleast your reading, and willing to call me on any errors you think I have made.
> 
> And also, the quotes of philosphers and historians are still echoed today. We'll see how many scientists and doctors are remembered a couple years down the line, shall we?


I definitely agree with that. Women smell it on me, there's no point in even trying. I hesitated bad in a few instances last night, women tried to dance with me and I resisted because of my shyness, as soon as each realized, I was like a piece of **** to them. I seemed ultra confident when I was dancing, but I just tried to have a good time, despite my inadequacies.

Exactly, he who hesitates masturbates! That's a good one. I don't disagree at all what you are saying, I'm trying to go against society and do things my way, but the problem is everyone else is so ingrained in it.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> If your huge on facing fears, perhaps you should face your fear of long posts?
> 
> There is no Social Anxiety Disorder - only fear.


Don't be a smart ***. Learn how to think critically and write concisely, if you want more people to listen. Changing the name of "social anxiety disorder" to "fear" without actually changing anything but the name doesn't warrant a diatribe. You simply got yourself caught up in a little metaphysical loop. You'll get through it eventually. Just try not to drag too many people under with you.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Don't be a smart ***. Learn how to think critically and write concisely, if you want more people to listen. Changing the name of "social anxiety disorder" to "fear" without actually changing anything but the name doesn't warrant a diatribe. You simply got yourself caught up in a little metaphysical loop. You'll get through it eventually. Just try not to drag too many people under with you.


Like I said, I am doing this all in the moment, and typing my thoughts as they occur.

What I meant by the fear line is this - everyone experiences anxiety when confronted by something they fear. You fear socialising with people. Hence - Social Anxiety Disorder. It is not actually a mental illness, or an illness at all, just a lack of conditioning.

Unless, if you disagree, we can happily rename "fear of flying" to a mental disorder by the name of "Aviation Disorder". That sounds as though it's down your flight path, but let's hope you don't get caught up in a storm, storm.


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## CompanionLess

Absolutely agree that doctors made up many "diseases" just to make money! Be aware people your doctor is not always thinking the best for you


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## Must be the Ganja

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> I definitely agree with that. Women smell it on me, there's no point in even trying. I hesitated bad in a few instances last night, women tried to dance with me and I resisted because of my shyness, as soon as each realized, I was like a piece of **** to them. I seemed ultra confident when I was dancing, but I just tried to have a good time, despite my inadequacies.
> 
> Exactly, he who hesitates masturbates! That's a good one. I don't disagree at all what you are saying, I'm trying to go against society and do things my way, but the problem is everyone else is so ingrained in it.


The last comment is the best one. EVERYONE is ingrained in society. VERY few people are living in the moment these days, and these are the people who attract other people to them, because they have no ulterior motive.

This is probobly why someone who disagrees with me keeps returning to the thread, even though he doesn't like reading long posts, and that in his mind I've got it all wrong.


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## Must be the Ganja

CompanionLess said:


> Absolutely agree that doctors made up many "diseases" just to make money! Be aware people your doctor is not always thinking the best for you


Exactly. It is the darker side of ambition at work.


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## Must be the Ganja

Let go of this SAD ****, people, please. 

You lack experience and conditioning, sure, but you still have the same potential as to socialise as smoothly as everyone else.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> Like I said, I am doing this all in the moment, and typing my thoughts as they occur.
> 
> What I meant by the fear line is this - everyone experiences anxiety when confronted by something they fear. You fear socialising with people. Hence - Social Anxiety Disorder. It is not actually a mental illness, or an illness at all, just a lack of conditioning.
> 
> Unless, if you disagree, we can happily rename "fear of flying" to a mental disorder by the name of "Aviation Disorder". That sounds as though it's down your flight path, but let's hope you don't get caught up in a storm, storm.


Fear of flying is called Aerophobia, just like fear of socializing is called Social Phobia, sometimes referred to as Social Anxiety Disorder. I'm not quite even sure what you're getting at anymore.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Fear of flying is called Aerophobia, just like fear of socializing is called Social Phobia, sometimes referred to as Social Anxiety Disorder. I'm not quite even sure what you're getting at anymore.


You seem eager to flaunt your intelligence and your knowledge. Intelligence does not always get you respect. Look at scientists who design and build nuclear weapons, for example. Are any of these remembered in history? Unlike the creator or the light bulb, which is a far simpler contraption device.

If you really do not get what I'm trying to say, that is fine. You may leave.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Must be the Ganja said:


> The last comment is the best one. EVERYONE is ingrained in society. VERY few people are living in the moment these days, and these are the people who attract other people to them, because they have no ulterior motive.
> 
> This is probobly why someone who disagrees with me keeps returning to the thread, even though he doesn't like reading long posts, and that in his mind I've got it all wrong.


What exactly is right and what exactly is wrong? What might be the right thing for one person could be the wrong thing for another. Maybe some feel better just following the herd, chasing acceptance. I don't see anything wrong with that, I'm jealous of those people, that they are willing to be similar to connect.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> Let go of this SAD ****, people, please.
> 
> You lack experience and conditioning, sure, but you still have the same potential as to socialise as smoothly as everyone else.


Having Social Anxiety Disorder never implies that someone has less potential at socializing than anyone else. That's why there is therapy and medication. I think it is you who's outlook is flawed here. You think the SAD label somehow implies that it's impossible to socialize, when it doesn't. It's just a label used by doctors and psychologist so that they can know what the heck they are treating you for.


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Fear of flying is called Aerophobia, just like fear of socializing is called Social Phobia, sometimes referred to as Social Anxiety Disorder. I'm not quite even sure what you're getting at anymore.


I refuse to get high anymore, despite my name, maybe I have aerophobia?


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> I refuse to get high anymore, despite my name, maybe I have aerophobia?


lol


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## Must be the Ganja

writingupastorm said:


> Having Social Anxiety Disorder never implies that someone has less potential at socializing than anyone else. That's why there is therapy and medication. I think it is you who's outlook is flawed here. You think the SAD label somehow implies that it's impossible to socialize, when it doesn't. It's just a label used by doctors and psychologist so that they can know what the heck they are treating you for.





> But not everyone is born with the same levels of instincts, leading some people to develop low levels of skills in socializing, leading to SA. It's not rocket science.


If it's just a label, don't be that label. Don't use it as crutch when you feel bad about isolating yourself.


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## writingupastorm

Must be the Ganja said:


> If it's just a label, don't be that label. Don't use it as crutch when you feel bad about isolating yourself.


That I can agree with.


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## Must be the Ganja

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> What exactly is right and what exactly is wrong? What might be the right thing for one person could be the wrong thing for another. Maybe some feel better just following the herd, chasing acceptance. I don't see anything wrong with that, I'm jealous of those people, that they are willing to be similar to connect.


The right thing is whatever makes you happy with yourself, obviously.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Must be the Ganja said:


> The right thing is whatever makes you happy with yourself, obviously.


What makes me happy is a bane for others. When you are different, society treats you like cancer, the mainstream of society are like antibodies, when they detect someone different, they destroy it. That's how most act towards me. I live happy on my own terms and when people see it, they try to destroy it.


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## wickedtruth

The title is to make you think. - We are born with anxiety, its a natural survial process. But our society feeds it instead of nurturing it gently.

Stick it up to the man, is the way to go. 

I'm sorry to say this, but if you are so bias on his mentioning of 'Fight Club' film, then this is the reason why the world cannot move forward. People need to step out of the box more often then not, to understand better. 
I hand you a cookie and you eat it - as in the information you get given, you take it as it is. Where the world is going wrong.
I hand you a cookie and you question it - stepping out of the box and wondering why/what/how/when/where. To gain a better insight and understanding.

Ganja, I will have to say that it is a huge debate on that area - I understand it is possible, believe me I have tried, but our society is rush rush rush. To deal with me, takes time. I'm too smart to settle for a very simple conversation that people generally have with me. I need intellectal indepth conversations. What would take 1 hour debate, would take 3 hours with me and for that reason, people are not interested.


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## Must be the Ganja

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> What makes me happy is a bane for others. When you are different, society treats you like cancer, the mainstream of society are like antibodies, when they detect someone different, they destroy it. That's how most act towards me. I live happy on my own terms and when people see it, they try to destroy it.


What makes you happy?


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Must be the Ganja said:


> What makes you happy?


I have to admit this is a pretty loaded question.

Being a hippie is what makes me happy, living that lifestyle. I don't care about getting the biggest house, the nicest car or having lots of money, I just want to live a simple life being around people I love and want to live their life in the limited freedom we have been granted. A life that revolves around helping others out of true generosity, expecting nothing in return. Be successful in my career, but not have the career consume my life. That's how I live my life, but every day, I see people only friending people to get to "the next level" not out of genuineness. That if you don't do certain things, you are a bum, useless, a loser.

The expectations of society is something I feel I can never meet.


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## Must be the Ganja

Brightpaperwarewolf said:


> I have to admit this is a pretty loaded question.
> 
> Being a hippie is what makes me happy, living that lifestyle. I don't care about getting the biggest house, the nicest car or having lots of money, I just want to live a simple life being around people I love and want to live their life in the limited freedom we have been granted. A life that revolves around helping others out of true generosity, expecting nothing in return. Be successful in my career, but not have the career consume my life. That's how I live my life, but every day, I see people only friending people to get to "the next level" not out of genuineness. That if you don't do certain things, you are a bum, useless, a loser.
> 
> The expectations of society is something I feel I can never meet.


O-m-f-g.

You are JUST like me.

I just want to vibe with people. I want to make a conversation about anything, and keep it going and cycle through as many topics as needed, as long as the participants are speaking, laughing and interested.

I do have a dream of becoming a card counter and making money playing Blackjack. But atm, it's just a dream, and will take many steps before I can make a living out of it, consistantly. But, it's achievable. But most importantly, I am free from tax, free from shifts, free from MOST of the bonds that keep us attatched to "society". I can sit at a table and earn money, and I can talk to other players, most of which will be having fun.

They look at us weird because they're confused. They're not used to seeing people WITHOUT an ulterior motive, because most DO have one.


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## Must be the Ganja

wickedtruth said:


> Ganja, I will have to say that it is a huge debate on that area - I understand it is possible, believe me I have tried, but our society is rush rush rush. To deal with me, takes time. I'm too smart to settle for a very simple conversation that people generally have with me. I need intellectal indepth conversations. What would take 1 hour debate, would take 3 hours with me and for that reason, people are not interested.


I know what you mean, I feel your pain.

We have all been in a situation/conversation, which cycles round to a topic that we have ALOT to say about. We have opinions on it, we have beleifs on it and we WANT to share these with people and receive feedback and their own insight. BUT, what happens? Most people just shoot you down. It's a knee-jerk reaction for alot of people, they just won't allow themselves to be interested, and for that reason, they ARE disinterested. Selfishness is a many-headed beast, and I've seen this particular head many times, and I preceive the face as one of the ugliest.

But, it's worse for you, by the sounds of it. I can only imagine your frustration, and I imagine it to be in huge amounts. You have joined in this debate and I'm glad you did (and not just because you backed me up:b), do you often use the internet to debate? Do you get any enjoyment out of listening to debates? Because I do. Sometimes more than participating. It's a good way to learn about the debated topic, usually.


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## Must be the Ganja

wickedtruth said:


> The title is to make you think. - We are born with anxiety,


I forgot to say. Babies are always born crying their eyes out. What is a bigger indicator of stress and anxiety than that? Eventually they stop when their mother holds them, and they realise that they're not alone, that they've just been saved.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

Must be the Ganja said:


> O-m-f-g.
> 
> You are JUST like me.
> 
> I just want to vibe with people. I want to make a conversation about anything, and keep it going and cycle through as many topics as needed, as long as the participants are speaking, laughing and interested.
> 
> I do have a dream of becoming a card counter and making money playing Blackjack. But atm, it's just a dream, and will take many steps before I can make a living out of it, consistantly. But, it's achievable. But most importantly, I am free from tax, free from shifts, free from MOST of the bonds that keep us attatched to "society". I can sit at a table and earn money, and I can talk to other players, most of which will be having fun.
> 
> They look at us weird because they're confused. They're not used to seeing people WITHOUT an ulterior motive, because most DO have one.


Yes! I love to entertain people, make sure everyone I'm with has a good time, even at the expense of my own. Nothing makes me happier than to see others having fun. Whether enjoying good conversation, going out relaxed, having fun, trying to have the time of our lives.

I hope you realize your dream, bit by bit because it sounds like you would truly be free from the constraints of society. That sounds cool, living life doing something you love. That is freedom, defying convention. Aspects of convention is something that ingrained in me though. Like I'm fighting myself, resisting to be who I really am.


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## Daktoria

After reading the OP, I honestly can't tell if there's an effort to have an honest discussion or if this is just a huge provocation.

I mean I want to have an honest discussion about this, but I don't know if it's worthwhile because it's an extremely complex issue.

Fundamentally, the problem is that the OP is presenting an empirical argument.

However, empirically speaking, "correlation does not mean causation" does not apply. Empiricism is based on induction, and there is extensive empirical "evidence" demonstrating mental disorders.

In order for the OP's conclusion to be realized, empiricism, particularly empiricism with regards to social sciences, has to be dismissed, but the OP doesn't seem to be willing to do that, especially since it refutes free will.

In short, I'd like to agree, but given the OP's context, it'd be irresponsible to sympathize. Coming to the right answer the wrong way doesn't count.


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## TenYears

Must be the Ganja said:


> How can opening up a little to your colleagues, to your wife, to your wives friends, POSSIBLY be more uncomfortable than your current quality of life? I'll tell you why - because your mind is telling you so. It is ALL in your mind. It will take a gigantic leap of faith at first, but watch what happens when you open up to someone, like you just did to me. And I don't mean a therapist, a counseller, a doctor or ANYONE who earns a paycheque to listen to you. I'm talking about a PERSON.


It's a dead issue really...my wife made a fake screen name, & read every single one of my posts, my blog, before I deleted it, showed it to her friends for a good laugh. Her, her friends & her family have fun at my expense. At one point at the opening day thing yesterday, my wife who's sitting a few people down from me shouts out "HEY, WHY DON'T YOU WORK THE BOOTH TODAY, INSTEAD OF ME?!?!" (barbeque booth to raise $ for the team). I just gave her a blank stare, froze up, as usual, and her friends started laughing so hard I thought they were gonna pee their pants. I'm a joke.

It's not really anything other than what I would expect. Not because I'm wallowing in self-pity, but because people don't _*get* _this stuff, man. It's wierd to them, it scares them off, they don't know how to react to it, & they sure as h*** don't know how to help me. I can't really blame them. It's a constant back & forth in my head between blaming other people/society/social rules, and blaming myself because apparantly I will always be lame, I will always be wierd, I will always be a social liability.

I've tried getting over it, years ago, I actually tried pretending it was something I could beat, that it was all in my head, & forced myself to get out there a little more. I crashed & burned, every time, so I gave up. I'm so far behind. There's a learning curve to all this, that most people learn over a series of years, there's an art to fitting in, being funny, being comfortable in a crowd, picking up on social cues, knowing when to talk & when to STFU. I missed too much of this. I feel like a five year old, hiding behind his mama's pants leg at the grocery store every time I go out. Thanks for the response, I like this thread, because it is thought-provoking, I hate the same, over-used, stagnant threads that always seem to show up here, this one is at least food for thought.

I really think they are the exceptions, but some people like myself are too f***** far gone to get over it. There aren't enuf years left in my life to change my twisted, messed up perceptions, opinions, fears, false judgements in my head. It's not fair to my wife. It's not fair to my kids. It's not fair to either of our families, or her friends. But I can't change. If I didn't have kids, I would probably have killed myself by now. Seriously.

On a good morning, I will have drank or drugged myself into oblivion so much so, that I won't remember much of what happened the day before.


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## Must be the Ganja

Daktoria said:


> After reading the OP, I honestly can't tell if there's an effort to have an honest discussion or if this is just a huge provocation.
> 
> I mean I want to have an honest discussion about this, but I don't know if it's worthwhile because it's an extremely complex issue.
> 
> Fundamentally, the problem is that the OP is presenting an empirical argument.
> 
> However, empirically speaking, "correlation does not mean causation" does not apply. Empiricism is based on induction, and there is extensive empirical "evidence" demonstrating mental disorders.
> 
> In order for the OP's conclusion to be realized, empiricism, particularly empiricism with regards to social sciences, has to be dismissed, but the OP doesn't seem to be willing to do that, especially since it refutes free will.
> 
> In short, I'd like to agree, but given the OP's context, it'd be irresponsible to sympathize. Coming to the right answer the wrong way doesn't count.


I don't understand most of the post, and I had to look up the meaning of the word "empirical", and I still don't understand. Out of interest, do you talk to people in person like this? Because that could be your problem.


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## Daktoria

No, I don't, lol.

Well, sometimes, but only with people I trust, and only if they're very intelligent.

Look up empiricism. That's what I'm talking about.

Look up methodenstreit too. There are extensive parallels between empiricism and historicism. Pragmatism as well.

The point I was making is that what you're talking about is a very philosophical question, but if you're not willing to be deeply philosophical, then your point is probably best not answered to because of how hastily you're drawing conclusions.

I mean the mere definition of anxiety isn't necessarily health based. It can be life strategy based as well. What's viewed as curing anxiety in one culture can be viewed as brainwashing in another.


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## Must be the Ganja

Until a scientists finds a way of systematically making friends, socialising and seducing the opposite sex, then I am not going to listen to the **** they have on social anxiety. Why? Because those three things I mentioned are the bare essentials for survival in replication. You can't do surveys or learn **** like that in a lab (unless the lab is in fact a social gathering), you can't summarise their importance, or the right way to go about doing them, with surveys, scientific studies or (probobly espeically) listing numbers and chemical formulas. If you could, would we be here having this discussion? They might some day, but that's a long shot and you could be long gone by the time it's even fired. 

We must choose what philosphies appeal to us, and run with them. Only on our deathbeds can we be REALLY sure if they worked. 

I realise my claim is an ambitious one to make for a 21 year old supermarket shelf stacker, when there's well educated and well connected doctors and scientists out there telling you the opposite. But the reality of it is, this is working for me. None of their science and medical bollocks ever has. It just made me all the more obsessive and all the more socially anxious. 

But really, it's not a claim, it's a philosophy. Learn from and analyze the past, to help you live better in the moment, in order to salvage the future.


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## Daktoria

OK, but then you can't refute free will. Free will is rejected by empiricism as well such that our experiences, actions, and knowledge are only physically based.

Acknowledging anxiety is a practical judgment like acknowledging happiness or frustration or satisfaction or fear. It's an internal diagnostic. Nobody else in the world can tell you that you are anxious even if they can tell you that you seem anxious. Only you can realize it because only you have the appropriate perspective.

A psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist might say you're anxious, but that depends on his interpretation of your feedback (and your interpretation of his feedback). It's a highly instrumentalist exchange that ultimately depends upon trust.

That's why I'm against court ordered psychiatry. It forces people to trust each other. Not only does that corrupt any possible treatment, but it also forces psychiatric interpretation to coincide with the culture behind the law. That imposes upon the dignity of citizens as choosers of their own culture which negates the notion of justice, particularly with conditions such as SA, schizophrenia, and psychosis. Even insanity, technically speaking, is a strictly legal term for determining if someone is in a proper state of mind.


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## Must be the Ganja

Daktoria said:


> OK, but then you can't refute free will. Free will is rejected by empiricism as well such that our experiences, actions, and knowledge are only physically based.
> 
> Acknowledging anxiety is a practical judgment like acknowledging happiness or frustration or satisfaction or fear. It's an internal diagnostic. Nobody else in the world can tell you that you are anxious even if they can tell you that you seem anxious. Only you can realize it because only you have the appropriate perspective.
> 
> A psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist might say you're anxious, but that depends on his interpretation of your feedback (and your interpretation of his feedback). It's a highly instrumentalist exchange that ultimately depends upon trust.
> 
> That's why I'm against court ordered psychiatry. It forces people to trust each other. Not only does that corrupt any possible treatment, but it also forces psychiatric interpretation to coincide with the culture behind the law. That imposes upon the dignity of citizens as choosers of their own culture which negates the notion of justice, particularly with conditions such as SA, schizophrenia, and psychosis. Even insanity, technically speaking, is a strictly legal term for determining if someone is in a proper state of mind.


I understand what your saying...I think. :b What I do know for sure is that this is viewed as an extremely complex area for alot of you, and what I'm trying to do is make a philospohy that simplifies Social Anxiety Disorder. I want to reduce the fear and the notion that you, the sufferer, are weird, or some unfortunate soul that is destined to be an outcast. Only you can define yourself as an outcast - by giving up on people.

I want people to think of themselves as not a product of society. Society, these days, is a kind of production line that takes feedstock in the form of children and educates them with ALOT of crap. Because that's what society needs. It needs it's people to be labourers, soldiers, anaylysts, designers, technicians and a whole lot else. Children are manipulated (this is my choice of word for it) into thinking THEY must find their place in society, and quickly. They must do this course, they must have this amount of experience, they must be decisive even without the life experience to make informed decisions and if you make the wrong decision, it's yet ANOTHER struggle to try and turn things around. What children are not taught (unless their parents recognise this vital need, which alot of them don't) is about relationships, friendships, loyalty, teamwork, connecting, building bridges, talking to the opposite sex, sex itself and finding yourself. Not your job or area of expertise, your ACTUAL self.

Instead of being a product of society, why not think of yourself as the being you actually are - a human, a biological machine. In the early days it's assumed humans lived in tribes. Imagine if you were part of a tribe for so many years, and for the sake of the argument you left and joined another. How would you feel at first? Would your prehistoric self be as comfortable socially in the second tribe as you were the first? No, you wouldn't. You would be fearful. You have no reason to be comfortable with these new tribesmen, you have no reason to trust them, but given the right amount of time, you might well do. Your chances are even better if you used the social skills you learned in the first tribe, and applied them to the second. It's ok to be afraid of new people, it's a defense mechanism designed to keep you alive. You, the modern-day sufferer of Social Anxiety, are, in effect, FEARING the FEAR itself that you experience when meeting new people. You don't want to feel anxious, you don't want to feel afraid, so you hide, you isolate, but your thoughts ALWAYS turn outwards to your other humans in the form of "why doesn't anyone understand me?" , "why don't people behave this way when I do this?" , "why do they look at me funny? , "why?".

Don't fear Social Anxiety itself. Don't fear the symptoms of a survival mechanism, because your hardwired to have them. There is NOTHING you can do to remove social anxiety completley. Even the worlds greatest Pick Up Artist, Mystery, has openly admitted and filmed himself fearing the approach of a strange woman (and he has dates supermodels), and for those trained to look for body language cues and such, he is not faking it.

I was having a conversation with a shopkeeper yesterday when buying cigarettes and we exchanged phone numbers. She stated at one point during this conversation that she won't answer her phone unless she has the number saved. This is Social Anxiety, is it not? This is a SHOPKEEPER who is chatting to people pretty much ALL day. Does she think of this Social Anxiety as a Disorder? Nope. Nor should you. It's ok to be afraid, but it's not okay to let fear rule you.


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## JimmyDeansRetartedCousin

I know what you're trying to say OP and I had those same sorts of thoughts, I tried being really super naively objective for a while it worked. But it's way oversimplified, there's way too many variables and SA is such wide umbrella term that any therapeutic effects from thinking like that will be short lived.

We're massively complex beings, seriously mind bogglingly complicated. And what you're claiming isn't wrong in theory, but it's not right either.

Must be the ganja :stu


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## RawrJessiRawr

Must be the Ganja said:


> You want to make people happy.
> 
> The compliment the person above you thread has over a 1000 replies. That is some proof.
> 
> If you want to understand, deeper, what I'm telling you, then watch the film Fight Club.
> 
> You all need to forget this Social Anxiety **** because it's an illusion that is made real by the mind, not unlike the subliminal message underneath the surface of The Matrix film, really.
> 
> Stop trying to force it. Stop thinking with your concious mind. Let go, ffs.


Ive watched it many times >_< I just dont agree with you, stop trying to understand, stop trying to find the answers, the real answer is, yes the human mind is strong but with bad experience, bad times, lack of certain aspects of a normal humans life can change your mind, can affect it. So yes SA is what we all have, the more you try to denie it the more you probably wont learn a thing about life or yourself.
here is an example- 
Law and order SVU, episode on a mother and child with aids 
The mother and child were blinded by the thought of maybe they dont have aids, their doctor came up with his own theory somewhat like yours, saying doctors just want to get money, that they really dont know. He believed with any illness, like the common cold, if they could go away with time, aids would too. This forced their mind to actually believe they didnt have this illness, why pay, why bother when they thought they knew the answer. After long hours of court time for the doctor, since they discovered other cases of patients he also gave his theory to that seem to be worse or dead, they discover at the end that both the teen boy and mother did have AIDS. you cant run from what you have but just accept it. get help for it, and ease it, thats all. 
In the fight club, The main character not only avoids his insomnia, but also distracts himself from his illness by going to random support groups, he never went to a doctor so saying all doctors just want money is crazy. Maybe if the main character would have gone, would have gotten help, he wouldnt have lost his mind. We all know the human mind without a certain amount of sleep can go crazy, the human mind is fragile.
A baby without affection (no touching, hugging, talking to, ect ect) will die, so people with SA do need help, do exist. You cant just tell people to forget they have SA, its like telling someone with aids, to just forget it, its probably not real. sounds pretty silly to me


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## Must be the Ganja

You have Social Anxiety Disorder in a world where ALOT of people have precious little social skills (for the reasons I have mentioned in reguard to bs schooling). This can make the "Disorder" seem alot worse than it actually is. In order for a conversation to flow and a friendship to result, the two people conversing need to be competent enough with social dynamics. You do not have this competency, and therefore fear even trying to learn, live in the field. BUT, neither does the other person (usually), but you also do not consider the other person as a sufferer of Social Anxiety Disorder. You consider the person as someone who simply does not see that you have an inhibiting condition, and your right, but then again how would they know? You, the sufferer of SAD, a person who has took so much responsibility on themselves to the point where your willing to call yourself mentally ill, take the FULL blame for the unsuccessful interaction, simply because you have Social Anxiety Disorder. 

You can use meds. You can ease the anxiety symptoms. But they're not the solution, they don't fix the problem. A mechanic can open up a machine and remove a faulty drive shaft, removing the clanking noise (the symptom) but until he replaces it, he has not fixed the machine. BUT, removal of symptoms is a necessary step and he must do this. Meds are your own decision - how bad are your symptoms? Are they worth it or not?

I am not trying to prove a theory or make an award-winning discovery. What I want to inspire is a mindset. A new way to look at this. The REAL goal you should all strive for is being comfortable enough with people (only you can decide where the finish line is for that) and be able to make friends. The goal should NOT be to "remove and beat Social Anxiety Disorder". SAD should be viewed as nothing more than an obstacle preventing you from reaching the REAL goal aforementioned. 

The more you focus on a problem, the more it becomes a problem.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf

As Daktoria stated, you ignore the concept of freewill. Medicines work for some people, so does god. Many methods work, they are tools used to try to treat SA. Life has so many factors. A person must decide for themselves what works for them and what doesn't. There's no singular way to accomplish this. 

Each person is on his own journey where paths are crossed with others. Where that journey leads them is the concept of free will. There's no right or wrong, just trial and error while gathering experience to become more comfortable talking to others. Life works in unexpected ways, it can bring you to the point where being positive and trying to love people would be the last thing on your mind. Life is a struggle and will always be. The only thing you can do is be the best person you can be and keep learning, working through anxiety. That's all you can do.


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## singingherbs

Must be the Ganja said:


> You have Social Anxiety Disorder in a world where ALOT of people have precious little social skills (for the reasons I have mentioned in reguard to bs schooling). This can make the "Disorder" seem alot worse than it actually is. In order for a conversation to flow and a friendship to result, the two people conversing need to be competent enough with social dynamics. You do not have this competency, and therefore fear even trying to learn, live in the field. BUT, neither does the other person (usually), but you also do not consider the other person as a sufferer of Social Anxiety Disorder. You consider the person as someone who simply does not see that you have an inhibiting condition, and your right, but then again how would they know? You, the sufferer of SAD, a person who has took so much responsibility on themselves to the point where your willing to call yourself mentally ill, take the FULL blame for the unsuccessful interaction, simply because you have Social Anxiety Disorder.
> 
> You can use meds. You can ease the anxiety symptoms. But they're not the solution, they don't fix the problem. A mechanic can open up a machine and remove a faulty drive shaft, removing the clanking noise (the symptom) but until he replaces it, he has not fixed the machine. BUT, removal of symptoms is a necessary step and he must do this. Meds are your own decision - how bad are your symptoms? Are they worth it or not?
> 
> I am not trying to prove a theory or make an award-winning discovery. What I want to inspire is a mindset. A new way to look at this. The REAL goal you should all strive for is being comfortable enough with people (only you can decide where the finish line is for that) and be able to make friends. The goal should NOT be to "remove and beat Social Anxiety Disorder". SAD should be viewed as nothing more than an obstacle preventing you from reaching the REAL goal aforementioned.
> 
> The more you focus on a problem, the more it becomes a problem.


wow I just whizzed through this whole thread and am deeply inspired. Thank you Ganga!
I've had this disorder for my whole life, well the later half of it (I'm 20), and I'm finally seeing the light, this thread just accelerated my self even more.

Not fearing the fear is sooo key! As humans we have fundamental fears that are hardwired within us that we must accept. I watched the Tyler Durden video you posted and YES I make up soooo many excuses why NOT to talk to someone or why I should stay home instead of going out to a party where I'll most likely have lots of fun and make lots of new and exciting connections with people.

When you said that people with SA are people persons, yes this made sooo much sense. It saddens me when I can't interact with someone, it has been the CAUSE of my depression, that I am getting over currently.

When I am in the zone/focused/clear mind, I'm a really funny, social, awesome girl, it's just a joy to watch yourself on autopilot and become amazed at how well you're doing, it's like watching a child learning how to walk for the first time over and over.

Just think of the people in your life, or when you see someone on the street, observe your innate DESIRE to connect with that person. I get that feeling with pretty much EVERY SINGLE person I see, the anxiety is caused when society pins it WRONG to go up to people and talk to them. SA sufferers, we want to connect with EVERYBODY and imagine how taxing it is when society, your parents, life has taught you that sorry, you can't, it's not acceptable, eeeee makes me nervous, where do I turn...I turn to myself, I blame myself, cue the resentment, fear, depression and worry. No you must forgive yourself, you must forgive society, you must forgive everybody. We're all in this together (haha high school musical had it right ). Celebrate where you've come from, and celebrate where you're going.

Thanks Ganga, let's revolutionize, the time is now.


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## singingherbs

I've been practicing taking action no matter WHAT level of fear I am feeling, and I can't explain to you how this has been affected my life. It's like a switch that you flick on and off. Am I going to do this? or am I not going to do this.

It's just trusting yourself and choosing to do IT. Perfection only exists within your own beliefs, within your own mind. Here is an example that actually happened to me today having to do with exercising:

thought: I should exercise
...but I'm too tired, then I won't have energy for later on in the day, I forgot my "good" running shoes at my dad's house, I think I tore something in my knee I should let that heal some more.

then I thought, actually I didn't think, I just put on my "not as good" running shoes and started running. Now it's later on in the day and I have so much energy and I feel so good!

Get clear by: drinking lots of water, exercising, meditation, EFT (youtube this, it works very well), taking natural herbs (Maca, Reishi and Mucuna are working wonders for me).

Once you are somewhat clear you can SEE your behavioural patterns, you can SEE how your parents raised you, you can SEE where you're at. Then, you forgive, you forgive your parents, your highschool "friends" that made fun of you, your ignorant teachers, your boss, your siblings...then you forgive yourself....then you love yourself...then you sense you could possibly change, you could be yourself, you can relax, you don't have to be this perfect image of the self your parents wanted you to be, you can hang out, you can be you, you're allowed.

Here is some SA related affirmations I've concocted: say this to yourself in the mirror:

I deserve to have friends.
I deserve love.
I am lovable.
I love you ____insert name
I deserve to have fun with people.
I have a clear energy space around me.
I deserve to tap into my personal power.
They're just people.

As you say these affirmations you may not be able to keep eye contact or become emotional. Please, let emotions such as sadness (crying), or anger etc. come up to be cleared away. I've been crying so much the past few days it's crazy, the good crying, like you are releasing emotional pain. If you don't feel anything the first day you do these affirmations, don't worry. The point is to do them everyday and you will reach a certain energetic momentum, no the physical mind cannot comprehend it, just let it happen.

It also helps to imagine yourself having good social moments with other people.

Wow Ganga your rant is greatly contagious.


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## atticusfinch

I feel that your argument can be applied to most things in life. To a certain extent, social anxiety could be a simulated disorder, but that doesn't matter... if its fake or not. what it all comes down to is that it is existing.


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## Ojee

*your first post*

I find that your post presumes quite a bit. Myself, I have never met these charming, gentle cavemen, nor have I met the ones who so often say 'ugh'. I presume, though, you have not spent a lifetime documenting their overtly social behaviour. You can always prove me wrong with documentation. I would avoid the bible or koran, as they tend to describe (or prescribe) the victories, rape, murder, and booty these friendly troglodytes have shaped this world in.

Many people are born with physical deficiencies, as we are all not cut from the same cookie mold. I find it unimaginable for anyone to believe that mental illnesses are all just some neurosis that can simply be turned on and off. Some are born with deficiencies, and our environments have a lot with how they develop.

In one instance you say it's all in our mind, but later point out that we do not know how the mind works. It leaves one to wonder, does yours.

Your post may have meant to be encouraging, but I feel it was full of misunderstandings, and based on limited insight and experience. It's quite the nerve to hold a whole people to your own limited experiences and ideals.


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## DreamyDove

Must Be The Ganja, from what I read of your posts I think you have an enlightened way of thinking that I appreciate, and find you very interesting. One thing a person must accept though is that not everyone has a receptivity to such a paradigm shift; the horses don't always drink when you lead them to water.


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## Daktoria

Must be the Ganja said:


> I understand what your saying...I think. :b What I do know for sure is that this is viewed as an extremely complex area for alot of you, and what I'm trying to do is make a philospohy that simplifies Social Anxiety Disorder. I want to reduce the fear and the notion that you, the sufferer, are weird, or some unfortunate soul that is destined to be an outcast. Only you can define yourself as an outcast - by giving up on people.
> 
> I want people to think of themselves as not a product of society. Society, these days, is a kind of production line that takes feedstock in the form of children and educates them with ALOT of crap. Because that's what society needs. It needs it's people to be labourers, soldiers, anaylysts, designers, technicians and a whole lot else. Children are manipulated (this is my choice of word for it) into thinking THEY must find their place in society, and quickly. They must do this course, they must have this amount of experience, they must be decisive even without the life experience to make informed decisions and if you make the wrong decision, it's yet ANOTHER struggle to try and turn things around. What children are not taught (unless their parents recognise this vital need, which alot of them don't) is about relationships, friendships, loyalty, teamwork, connecting, building bridges, talking to the opposite sex, sex itself and finding yourself. Not your job or area of expertise, your ACTUAL self.
> 
> Instead of being a product of society, why not think of yourself as the being you actually are - a human, a biological machine. In the early days it's assumed humans lived in tribes. Imagine if you were part of a tribe for so many years, and for the sake of the argument you left and joined another. How would you feel at first? Would your prehistoric self be as comfortable socially in the second tribe as you were the first? No, you wouldn't. You would be fearful. You have no reason to be comfortable with these new tribesmen, you have no reason to trust them, but given the right amount of time, you might well do. Your chances are even better if you used the social skills you learned in the first tribe, and applied them to the second. It's ok to be afraid of new people, it's a defense mechanism designed to keep you alive. You, the modern-day sufferer of Social Anxiety, are, in effect, FEARING the FEAR itself that you experience when meeting new people. You don't want to feel anxious, you don't want to feel afraid, so you hide, you isolate, but your thoughts ALWAYS turn outwards to your other humans in the form of "why doesn't anyone understand me?" , "why don't people behave this way when I do this?" , "why do they look at me funny? , "why?".
> 
> Don't fear Social Anxiety itself. Don't fear the symptoms of a survival mechanism, because your hardwired to have them. There is NOTHING you can do to remove social anxiety completley. Even the worlds greatest Pick Up Artist, Mystery, has openly admitted and filmed himself fearing the approach of a strange woman (and he has dates supermodels), and for those trained to look for body language cues and such, he is not faking it.
> 
> I was having a conversation with a shopkeeper yesterday when buying cigarettes and we exchanged phone numbers. She stated at one point during this conversation that she won't answer her phone unless she has the number saved. This is Social Anxiety, is it not? This is a SHOPKEEPER who is chatting to people pretty much ALL day. Does she think of this Social Anxiety as a Disorder? Nope. Nor should you. It's ok to be afraid, but it's not okay to let fear rule you.


I guess you're very anxious yourself then.

At the beginning, you treat people as objects because you want people to change.

At the end, you treat anxious people as objective because, to you, anxious people believe they invoke responses.

You can't change people. That's what makes people a recognizable category of entities.

Likewise, if you truly believe anxious people aren't doomed, then again, you can't refute free will.

I think it all really comes together in this line:

"Instead of being a product of society, why not think of yourself as the being you actually are - a human, a biological machine."

That doesn't make sense. A machine, by definition, does not think. It reacts. It does not deliberate. You're suggesting people accept a noble lie.

I'm not denying that's pragmatic. It is pragmatic. Even DBT emphasizes noble lies in the ways of emphasizing feeling in the moment, accepting your circumstances, and prayer. These are all aesthetic sanctuaries which is begging the question of you being a person, of you having a self. Plenty of people who overcome or aren't plagued by anxiety use techniques like those.

However, the deeper question is, "Why is pragmatism valuable? Why is life meaningful?" If aesthetics (and in turn, natural forces) are everything, then self-control, as well as the experience and cure for anxiety, would be an illusion.

Therefore, everything would be irrelevant, or more appropriately, nothing(ness) (literally) would be relevant. Both a world lacking of entities and a world dominated by chaos would be proper.

You come across as intelligent, so I believe you'll understand this. I had friends in junior high, high school, and college like you. They didn't do the best in classes, they didn't get the best grades, but they were very thoughtful. They cared.


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## Must be the Ganja

Ojee said:


> *A dose of white noise*


I respect your efforts. Now...shhhhhhhhhhh. :boogie


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## Must be the Ganja

atticusfinch said:


> I feel that your argument can be applied to most things in life. To a certain extent, social anxiety could be a simulated disorder, but that doesn't matter... if its fake or not. what it all comes down to is that it is existing.


They are shy guys and gals on this website who think they have a mental disorder simply because they exhibit some of the symptoms of social anxiety disorder. The symptoms have been listed and confirmed in order to help Doctors make the "correct" diagnosis. However, just because I have a runny nose and a chesty cough, does not mean I have full-blown man flu, despite the symptoms being similar. The point I'm trying to make here is...the lines drawn along the spectrum between being a little shy to a full-on SAD (when people isolate themselves completely) are unclear to me, but despite WHERE those lines are, I fully beleive they're conquerable, until one day the "sufferer" is as close to social freedom a potentially possible for them.

This is an ongoing thing. It must be applied for the rest of your life. There is NO finish line. There is no magic point where and when you will feel no social anxiety whatsoever, it is simply impossible, and so it should be, because we're hardwired to fear and be cautious sometimes for our own good. Even the most popular, social extrovert will be anxious speaking to, say, a world-famous murderer or rapist.

Me? I'm still working through this. Sometimes I go red at certain people's mere proximity.

There's an amazing girl I work with. She's rare. She's got the looks and body of a supermodel, not to mention a proud, athuorative posture (she always stands up straight to her tallest), she moves about with grace and elegance, but what else? She's got a great personality, a great outlook on life, she has the sole motive of making other people as happy as she feels in herself, she shows NO outward arrogance whatsoever and she never assumes she is above anyone (even though, really, she's above most). This girl makes me tense up sometimes, I blush, and I have to get away. It's happened a couple of times, but this is my motivation to have a conversation with her and build some rapport and comfort (I'm not going to try and pull her btw), and I will. What's her secret? She used to get beaten up by her ex-bfs. She's been through ALOT of crap. And this is the point I'm trying to make about people who fear. This girl could've isolated herself, never trusted men ever again, let EVERYTHNG slide as she nursed herself with booze, anti-depressants (granted, sometimes these are pretty much necessary) and whatever other quick fixes that are out there. But she didn't. Nor should you or anyone else.

"Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing" - Tyler Durden

@Daktoria - I feel you are now becoming far too analytical, and picking holes wherever you see them. I can't prove this theory, this ideaology over a message forum, it's intended for people to take live into the field and discover it for themselves. I don't think we will ever see eye-to-eye on this matter.

But, I _do_ like you. :yes


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## TenYears

Self-reflection, introspection, trying to figure myself out always leads me to feeling 10X more depressed than I was before, so I don't know why I do this...somewhere in me there must be a tiny microscopic grain of hope. I wonder if my wondering is a waste of time though. It's like a dentist trying to fix his own teeth. It's all about perspective I guess.



joinmartin said:


> *It's not all in your head. A lot of it is. And that's not saying it's not real. Just that, well...a lot of it has to do with you head because that's where the brain is. Where the mind is. But describe to me what "crashing and burning" was in this context? What exactly were you supposed to have accomplished during those times that would have proven to you that this was something you could beat?*
> 
> Yeah, there were things I should have accomplished. I gave up sometime at the end of my stay at university, before I dropped out, 12 hours short of getting my degree. What bothers me even more than dropping out is why the only friends I had just dropped me. It was on a very superficial level, but at least they were friends on some level. I drank a whole, whole lot, it helped me fit in, but it wasn't enough. A group of about 10 of us would walk across the street 2, 3, 4 times a week to this club, every week for a couple of years. There are several universities within 100 miles of this one...it was a huge, huge club, so packed you could barely move. There were a few of us that would wait in line at the bar, get our drinks, get back in line, and refill, strike up conversations in line. It was "any coin any drink night". It was all about drinking, making friends, possibly getting laid. The others in my group would be out picking up girls & dancing. To this day I cannot think of a more perfect setting in which to hook up with, or at least _talk _to a date. *It does not get any easier than this.* It would be midnight, 1:00, 1:30, I was always, always, the only one at the end of the night by myself. I just froze up. It was like paralysis. One of (I thought)my best friends & roomate said to me several times, f***, man, even the biggest loser I know can get someone at the *end *of the night at this club. WTF is your problem??? You don't even talk to girls, are you a f** or something? This happened over & over. Wasn't that I got shot down, I couldn't even approach a woman. It would have been bad anyway if I had actually ever got the balls to do it. The few friends I had disappeared.
> 
> *You have a heartbeat, don't you? If you do, it's nowhere near too late. People do "learn" this stuff, yes. But they also "crash and burn" no matter how skilled they appear so, in a way, you "crashing and burning" could well be seen as a sign that you were making more progress than you thought you were, couldn't it?*
> 
> I should have been more clear. I don't crash & burn, I don't even approach. I freeze up. And, yeah, it is too late. People my age don't want to hang out with someone who has the social skills of an anxious 16 yr old.
> 
> *Okay, your wife's friends? It's not fair to them? I do get the sense that you might have said "it's not fair to the Pope" before you even mentioned what was fair to you. And it's good to be a caring, compassionate person. Of course it is. But you're not solving your issues just for other people. You're doing it for you. I mean, seriously, look at those kids of yours. What do you think is in their eyes when they look back at you? Because they can't see the SA and they don't see the SA. They see their father. My father can make a fool of himself singing country and western songs at the top of his voice in the bath. He's also embarrassed me at parties. I would still lay down all that I am and all that I have to make sure he's safe and happy though. *
> 
> *Love is power. But you're most likely not letting that in because you've got one heck of a low opinion of yourself and letting that love in would be difficult and unfamiliar to handle right now. And that's okay. But it is there. *
> 
> You're right. This is something I don't know how to fix. I wish self esteem was something you could learn from self-help books, something you could buy. My sense of worthlessness is probably doing more harm to my kids than my SA, or anything else I have.
> 
> *Drinking can be fun sometimes. But personally, If I were you, I'd stop for a bit and work on the issues and problems. Are you seeing a therapist right now? You matter. Your mental health is important. This can be dealt with and sorted out. There's support and guidance out there.*
> 
> Not seeing a therapist now, stopped seeing my therapist 3 months ago. I started seeing psychiatrists when I was 16, I've seen over a dozen, at one point when I was in a psychiatric hospital I was seeing a team of them. I appreciate you giving me hope, saying this can be dealt with & sorted out, but deep down I really don't think it can. Again, I know I don't have any kind of perspective...I can't see myself in real, unbiased terms, so I can't fix myself. I'm searching for a new shrink now, getting meds is my only real motivation. I seem to be a litlle bit saner when I'm on them. I do need to stop mixing meds with alcohol, I black out a lot (which I don't mind doing sometimes). Also, my GP says I'm close to getting cirrhosis of the liver. I need to stop. The only thing that keeps me sane some days & I need to stop.


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## trendyfool

Must be the Ganja said:


> Back in the earliest days, the cavemen days, humans still had to reproduce, yet there was no language, no spoken word. We had vocals, so we had vocal tone, but surely we weren't ready to communicate effictively without the aid of body language, eye contact, touching and like I said vocal tone.
> 
> If we were able to seduce the opposite sex without words, and make friends with the same sex, then that is hardwired into our genes. You can't fight your genes. If you were born with a passion for engineering, and you admired your father for being a good engineer, you are going to be UNABLE to stay away from engineering.
> 
> You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. Why? Because it is NOT a real condition. It is NOT a real illness. It's man-made. It's a disorder invented by doctors and scientists who were trying too hard, to make money. We're a socialised species, it's in our nature to connect and be friends with the humans around us. For a doctor to say that some people are born without the necessary survival skills (not self-survival, I'm talking about the survival of our species) is arrogant beyond beleif, not to mention cruel.
> 
> You want to know what kind of person YOU are, as a "sufferer of SAD"? You are a people person. You have an incontrollable desire to make the other people around you happy. You can't fight it. You can't hide it. You've been blessed with that much sincerity, even if you did your best to stay silent, your natural instincts will fight your mind, and this will manifest itself in the form of blushing, sweating, stuttering, nausea etc.
> 
> The mind is the last sacred thing left. We don't know how it works, and we never will. The will is locked away in the mind. That's why if a surgeon and science team was to cut it open to find out how it works, like it is some sort of man-made machine they want to analyze and fix, your will to live will be tapped, and you will die.
> 
> SAD is a by-product of modern society. The more the man tries to control us, there will be more speculation about mental illnesses and disorders. Speculation, in this sense, is bad. Why would we analyze what CAN go wrong? What COULD be wrong? Will that help the sufferer? To tell them what's wrong, and they must do this, they must take these meds, they must see this expert, to be cured? Cured from an illness, that is locked away inside the mind? Can anyone read minds? Does anyone know how the mind REALLY works? If I didn't know how laptops worked, would you trust me to know what's wrong with YOUR broken laptop? No, you wouldn't, because I don't have the knowledge necessary to diagnose. And neither do the self-proclaimed SAD gurus.
> 
> I live in the moment. In school I wanted to speak to everyone, but society taught me to fear strangers. Why should I? Why should I fear my fellow humans? But I listened to society. I feared to make new friends, to become isolated and be alone with my own thoughts. But even then, my thoughts turned outwards to other people. BECAUSE IM A HUMAN, I AM SOCIALISED. I-AM-NOT-HARDWIRED-TO-BE-ALONE. If the earliest humans avoided each other and isolated themselves, we would not be here.
> 
> You wanna have a good conversation with a stranger? Make them talk about themselves, and keep that subject going as long as possible. Don't plan the conversation out in your head beforehand. When a man approaches a girl he likes, he will try to plan the interaction, he will visualize a routine and hope it happens. What DOES happen, then? The interaction goes nothing like the way he imagined, and he started stuttering and panicing. This what you do, isn't it? Before you start a conversation with your friends, people your comfortable with, do you try and plan out the conversation? Do you choose a list of topics to arm yourself with beforehand? No. What do you do? You run with it, in the moment. Proper conversation is LIVE and flowing. It's instinctive. It does not require concious thought or any effort on your part. IT...IS...HARDWIRED!!! This is what I am doing now. I am thinking ALOUD. I am typing my thoughts onto this screen as they occur to me. If we were face-to-face, it would NOT be more difficult. It would be EASIER. Why? Because we have body language, vocal tone, eye contact and everything else to help communication.
> 
> The only thing in this world that matters, is SURVIVAL in REPLICATION. Love, friends, sex, food, chemicals, water and comfort. Those are the things we're HARDWIRED to seek. All the rest? Such as money, is a means to an end. Most of the material CRAP that money can buy is non-essential. It is BULL****.


okay. So I read through this entire post. I think you have an interesting perspective, and it's refreshing to hear from someone who isn't overcome by negative thinking on this forum. I agree with you that everyone is hardwired to be social and to some extent that social anxiety is worsened by today's society. Technology causes isolation and isolation causes anxiety.

I wish I could go through what you said quote by quote the way I'm supposed to, but unfortunately I don't know how lol. But I disagree with a lot of your points. I understand where you're coming from because I felt the way you do, before. Sometimes it feels good to say, "society sucks!" and feel like a rebel. But you're going to turn off a lot of people with that mindset. I feel like you're not actually trying to help people--maybe it feels like you are, and maybe you are trying, but you're not going to genuinely reach and help people with your attitude. You need to have more compassion for people. I feel like you look down on people who think negatively...and you can't do that, if you want to help them think positively.

"SAD is a by-product of modern society. The more the man tries to control us, there will be more speculation about mental illnesses and disorders. "

You can't blame society for all psychological problems. Sorry. It just doesn't work like that.

"The mind is the last sacred thing left. We don't know how it works, and we never will. The will is locked away in the mind. That's why if a surgeon and science team was to cut it open to find out how it works, like it is some sort of man-made machine they want to analyze and fix, your will to live will be tapped, and you will die."

We will never know how the mind works completely. This is true. But we can understand it to some extent. The more we understand about the human mind the more we can help people with mental problems. Sure we're an overmedicated society and we probably overdiagnose a lot of mental conditions, and I can see how it's a bad thing to just use your diagnosis of SAD like a crutch, but therapy medicine and a good diagnosis help a great deal of people. I know they've helped me.

"You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. "

You have absolutely no way of knowing whether this is true or not.

"If we were able to seduce the opposite sex without words, and make friends with the same sex, then that is hardwired into our genes. You can't fight your genes."

Okay, so what about the people who are genetically predisposed to be socially anxious? You think they can't fight their genes?

Hm. I feel like I can't argue with you, but that's only because your stance and overall message aren't clear to me. Something about your attitude bothers me. And it's not because of my SAD, or because I'm a negative person, or because I'm controlled by fear (I'm not), it's just because you come across as condescending


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## Must be the Ganja

*okay. So I read through this entire post. I think you have an interesting perspective, and it's refreshing to hear from someone who isn't overcome by negative thinking on this forum. I agree with you that everyone is hardwired to be social and to some extent that social anxiety is worsened by today's society. Technology causes isolation and isolation causes anxiety.*

The last sentence is spot-on. You'd be suprised by how many people that sit in their rooms nowadays, wasting hours on console gaming, facebook etc. This sort of isolation is re-conditioning their minds, so when they go out to socialise, they're not as conditioned (to socialise) as they would be, say, after a long phone call with an old friend or chatting to their parents.

However, it's only in recent years (when you consider how long humans have been around) that technology has become readily available. Our minds are still more predisposed to accept social conditioning than sitting on Call of Duty for hours on end. The problem is, alot of people drink alcohol when they socialise, and this causes a dependance (as it reduces inhibitions) and people, again, don't feel confident socialising without it.

*I wish I could go through what you said quote by quote the way I'm supposed to, but unfortunately I don't know how lol. But I disagree with a lot of your points. I understand where you're coming from because I felt the way you do, before. Sometimes it feels good to say, "society sucks!" and feel like a rebel. But you're going to turn off a lot of people with that mindset. I feel like you're not actually trying to help people--maybe it feels like you are, and maybe you are trying, but you're not going to genuinely reach and help people with your attitude. You need to have more compassion for people. I feel like you look down on people who think negatively...and you can't do that, if you want to help them think positively.*

I am not exactly saying "society sucks". Society is trying to help, but they're clueless as to how to go about it. How would you feel if your doctor gave you the treatment plan I'm giving all of you now? "Go out and talk to people, only then will you reduce anxiety". I would bet my life right now that you would go and see another Doctor. Because you could've thought of this treatment yourself. But you don't have the confidence in yourself to run with it. Or maybe your so clinically depressed (like I have been) to even remember what confidence feels like.

Society does not suck, not always. It needn't be one extreme or the other.

On negative people - I have to punish people who come into this thread and say that I am wrong without giving a clear explanation. If they're going to do that, it would help if they give me an account of some of their first-hand experiences first, and expand on them, and say why it might disprove what I am saying. You can't disprove a philospohy, but for those willing to try, they're going to have to do better than waltzing into thread and mock my taste in films or call me brain dead. These people I will either ignore or punish, and rightly so.

*"SAD is a by-product of modern society. The more the man tries to control us, there will be more speculation about mental illnesses and disorders. "*

*You can't blame society for all psychological problems. Sorry. It just doesn't work like that.*

Yes I can. But not as much as I can blame the sufferer for listening to society, their upbringing, whatever influences have caused their depression etc. All of these are a part of society are they not? Haven't the sufferers parents been brought up in, and tainted by society also? Does the sufferer not go to a Doctor, who is working to a pre-listed set of diagnoses and treatment guidelines, that have been developed by society? When someone feels depressed because they can't pay the bills, is this not the fault of society?

*"The mind is the last sacred thing left. We don't know how it works, and we never will. The will is locked away in the mind. That's why if a surgeon and science team was to cut it open to find out how it works, like it is some sort of man-made machine they want to analyze and fix, your will to live will be tapped, and you will die."*

*We will never know how the mind works completely. This is true. But we can understand it to some extent. The more we understand about the human mind the more we can help people with mental problems. Sure we're an overmedicated society and we probably overdiagnose a lot of mental conditions, and I can see how it's a bad thing to just use your diagnosis of SAD like a crutch, but therapy medicine and a good diagnosis help a great deal of people. I know they've helped me. *

No, no, no, no, NO. WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE MIND WORKS! Every mind is different. We will NEVER summarise it. We will NEVER have enough paper to create a textbook that fully explains how the mind works. Why? There is several billion minds on this earth, and ALL of them think differently.

This is what I am talking about. The more we move towards conformity, the less individual each person is becoming. Only the mind keeps us individual. In short, we DO NOT *WANT* TO KNOW HOW "THE MIND" WORKS. ALL WE WANT, IS TO FIGURE OUT *HOW OUR OWN MIND WORKS.*

*"You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. "*

*You have absolutely no way of knowing whether this is true or not.*

True. It's more of a beleif.

But in the early days, there must've been very little order. Therefore, anything being labelled a "disorder" is unlikely. But the language (whatever that sounded like) in those days must've been restricted to words like "fire, kill, run, food, water" so...a little difficult to be anxious wouldn't you agree?

It would be interesting to know when the world's first diagnosis for Social Anxiety Disorder was. I'm guessing, not long after it was "created". Or was invented because one shy person simply was not up to it? And they beleived themselves to be different, unable? Did they then put a label on that person? I don't know.

*"If we were able to seduce the opposite sex without words, and make friends with the same sex, then that is hardwired into our genes. You can't fight your genes."*

*Okay, so what about the people who are genetically predisposed to be socially anxious? You think they can't fight their genes? *

What I do know is. If you were unable to be around people from birth (and therefore, a genetic predisposition to social anxiety disorder) you would now be dead.

*Hm. I feel like I can't argue with you, but that's only because your stance and overall message aren't clear to me. Something about your attitude bothers me. And it's not because of my SAD, or because I'm a negative person, or because I'm controlled by fear (I'm not), it's just because you come across as condescending  *

I don't know what condescending means.

So yes I could be condescending. I am not perfect.


----------



## Must be the Ganja

From my favourite video game of all time (and I've played Super Mario All-Stars)

There is alot of crap that you won't understand in these two videos, but the social commentary part's you might well understand.


----------



## Must be the Ganja

First Draft:-

Why do I isolate?
So I can meditate
So I can visualize
The look in their eyes
When I talk to them
The ultimate zen
When I make them laugh again
Another friend
Another smile to send
Another ear to lend
What if I offend?
　
Anxiety creeps up
Maybe I should shut up
I'm better off staying quiet
Complete silence
While they all riot
I sweat and blush
I was right to shush
I must get away
I'll try another day
I'll isolate again
That ultimate zen
　
In solitude
Where I am least alone
My favourite zone
From core to ozone
From slave to throne
I am alone
　
If, courage shown
I could set the tone
Be the life and soul
The ultimate goal
I am a people person
When alone
I worsen
Social insertion
Should be my cooercion

Listen now
Your Anxiety Disorder
Created by societal order
Does not exist
If you persist
To enlist
To listen to a therapist
Please resist


They do not know you
As well as you do
Only you walk the path
Placed in front of you
People can guide you too
But the print behind you
Was made by your shoe
You are a people person
Time for action
For social insersion 

by Must be the Ganja


----------



## Scorpius

I did not read all posts but most of it and I agree with you generally about everything you said...I have also tried to explain to others that there's no such thing as social anxiety "disorder" but people seem to have hard time understanding what exactly that means or what we are really trying to say..they just seem to get the wrong idea

For some reason they think or interpret it as if we are saying there's nothing really wrong with them and it's just in their head and they should just get over it which is NOT what we are trying to say at all..

Yes you have social anxiety issues and that we all agree on but it should not be "treated" as a mental "disorder" or an illness because it's NOT a mental illness...this is what the original poster is trying to say

Like another poster said it's like overloading a computer...and this is exactly why it is a condition largely related to modern society..because modern society is overloading your mind with bull crap and nonsense expectations..it's too much for a normal human to take so you "naturally" experience anxiety and depression because those emotions are there to tell you that there's something wrong going on and you need to do something about it..just like a thermostat that is telling you that this is too much and you need to cool down

And this is why trying to treat social anxiety as if it's a mental illness or something defective is a wrong approach in the first place because there's nothing really wrong with you as a human being or who you are...you HAVE to feel anxious and depressed when you are overloaded and that's what makes you a human being...to try to medicate yourself or treat it like it's an illness is like hiding or "masking" anxiety and depression so you can "overclock" your mind and overload it even more...the problem is not in WHO YOU ARE..the problem is in your subconscious mind and your deep beliefs...the problem is in the stress infested and ego maniac society you live in..it has to do with the bull crap software society loaded your mind with from an early age..it has to do with your deep believes and that's what people mean when they say you have to LOOK INSIDE to find the answers...you need to unlearn what you learned...you need to look at your deep beliefs and behaviors and correct them..you have to somehow get in touch with your subconscious mind where the old software is loaded and become more aware of how it's controlling you and running your life so you can fix it and you do this by becoming more aware and observant of your mind in the moment..by living more in the present and less in the past and future because when you are living in the past and future you are letting the old defective software run your life..

Nobody is saying this is easy..it's not and it will take time for most of us but this is at least the right direction where you will find the answers...I used to be very depressed and had a lot of anxiety and avoidance issues but at least my depression now is very minimized and i got it under control..I'm a lot better at handling social situations, talking to people, etc..I still have avoidance and social anxiety issues in many situations that I lack experience at but that just means I have to keep looking deeper and learn to be more present to get over my fears and most importantly drop society superficial standards and expectations..

I'm tired of writing about this but if anyone interested I wrote a more detailed reply on this issue in another thread but too lazy to type and explain all that again..

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...led-the-difference-between-sa-and-avpd-94565/


----------



## Scorpius

It's not supposed to make sense to everyone..wish I could do that though..would be nice..lol
and yes the mind is not a computer..it's jut a metaphor..
I don't think I disagree with what you're saying..it seems like another way of saying what I'm saying from your perspective..

But I don't necessarily agree that SA is mental disorder..this implies that there's something wrong with you that needs to be fixed or a "hardware" problem..and that's a lie made real only if you believe in it...because the problem is not really in yourself in the first place..it's in the society you live in..the values it feeds you and its unrealistic standards and expectations..going back to the computer example..it's like overloading a computer with junk and viruses..yes there's something wrong with the computer now but that's because you kept overloading it and it should be expected to act in a nasty way...that's NORMAL but you shouldn't treat it as if there's something wrong with the computer itself because that's not where the problem is..the computer was FINE in the first place and it does not need to be fixed..the problem is in the software (society) because you are overloading the computer with more than it's capable of...and that's what society is doing to people..overloading them with lies, more than they need and more than they should handle..you just need to get rid of the junk software and viruses and put your own..your own values, beliefs, thoughts and emotions and not what society tries to tell you or expects from you..that junk software that needs to be fixed or aligned is deep in your subconscious..it's what holds you back..so you have to "look inside" to find the answers and fix the problem...looking outside for solutions or answers is like trying to deal with the "hardware" which isn't going to fix the real problem..hope that makes sense

But anyways..that's just my perspective on social anxiety..i don't think we actually disagree that much..it's just different use of words and different way of seeing things..


----------



## kavetra

**

just ignore him everyone he's in phase 4 of SA........ DENIAL


----------



## Must be the Ganja

Scorpius said:


> I did not read all posts but most of it and I agree with you generally about everything you said...I have also tried to explain to others that there's no such thing as social anxiety "disorder" but people seem to have hard time understanding what exactly that means or what we are really trying to say..they just seem to get the wrong idea
> 
> For some reason they think or interpret it as if we are saying there's nothing really wrong with them and it's just in their head and they should just get over it which is NOT what we are trying to say at all..
> 
> Yes you have social anxiety issues and that we all agree on but it should not be "treated" as a mental "disorder" or an illness because it's NOT a mental illness...this is what the original poster is trying to say
> 
> Like another poster said it's like overloading a computer...and this is exactly why it is a condition largely related to modern society..because modern society is overloading your mind with bull crap and nonsense expectations..it's too much for a normal human to take so you "naturally" experience anxiety and depression because those emotions are there to tell you that there's something wrong going on and you need to do something about it..just like a thermostat that is telling you that this is too much and you need to cool down
> 
> And this is why trying to treat social anxiety as if it's a mental illness or something defective is a wrong approach in the first place because there's nothing really wrong with you as a human being or who you are...you HAVE to feel anxious and depressed when you are overloaded and that's what makes you a human being...to try to medicate yourself or treat it like it's an illness is like hiding or "masking" anxiety and depression so you can "overclock" your mind and overload it even more...the problem is not in WHO YOU ARE..the problem is in your subconscious mind and your deep beliefs...the problem is in the stress infested and ego maniac society you live in..it has to do with the bull crap software society loaded your mind with from an early age..it has to do with your deep believes and that's what people mean when they say you have to LOOK INSIDE to find the answers...you need to unlearn what you learned...you need to look at your deep beliefs and behaviors and correct them..you have to somehow get in touch with your subconscious mind where the old software is loaded and become more aware of how it's controlling you and running your life so you can fix it and you do this by becoming more aware and observant of your mind in the moment..by living more in the present and less in the past and future because when you are living in the past and future you are letting the old defective software run your life..
> 
> Nobody is saying this is easy..it's not and it will take time for most of us but this is at least the right direction where you will find the answers...I used to be very depressed and had a lot of anxiety and avoidance issues but at least my depression now is very minimized and i got it under control..I'm a lot better at handling social situations, talking to people, etc..I still have avoidance and social anxiety issues in many situations that I lack experience at but that just means I have to keep looking deeper and learn to be more present to get over my fears and most importantly drop society superficial standards and expectations..
> 
> I'm tired of writing about this but if anyone interested I wrote a more detailed reply on this issue in another thread but too lazy to type and explain all that again..
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...led-the-difference-between-sa-and-avpd-94565/


Yes. Excellent post my friend. :yes

Computer wise, our brains are like one of those early acorn computers that were about in 1995, but society treats us as though we are the latest HP supercomputer, and therein lies the problem. We must focus on ourselves and our own maintenance, and build on that. That would be, re-programming (conditioning) to reduce anxiety in social situations.

With the right approach, computers can be fixed. Some of the faults are so underlying and so far along that they will take longer to fix than others, but seeing as though alot of the members on this board are young enough, this is not much of an issue. But, if you leave it too long, it might be worth it to throw that computer in the trash or lock it away in a cupboard to collect dust (the SAD sufferer who has accepted a fate of isolation and depression). Don't _any_ of you be one of these people, please.


----------



## Must be the Ganja

kavetra said:


> just ignore him everyone he's in phase 4 of SA........ DENIAL


For the sake of my keyboards working life, and the wellbeing of those who dislike long posts, and your own feelings, I am going to assume this is an innocent joke. :b

Could be that denial kicking in again...:b


----------



## Must be the Ganja

Since I started applying this "No SAD" mindset, my lifes become a little bit like a blur. There isn't many social situations now that I haven't been in, so the anxiety is reducing (but nowhere near eliminated). 

I still get that thing what I like to call "backwards anxiety". Where you look back at a social encounter you had and wonder how you could've done better. It's not necessarily a bad thing, because it could also be the fact that we are "people people" we NEED to analyze every single encounter that we have and how we could've done better. It only becomes a problem when you obsess. But this forum is a perfect outlet for stuff like this.


----------



## curly

Must be the Ganja said:


> Back in the earliest days, the cavemen days, humans still had to reproduce, yet there was no language, no spoken word. We had vocals, so we had vocal tone, but surely we weren't ready to communicate effictively without the aid of body language, eye contact, touching and like I said vocal tone.
> 
> If we were able to seduce the opposite sex without words, and make friends with the same sex, then that is hardwired into our genes. You can't fight your genes. If you were born with a passion for engineering, and you admired your father for being a good engineer, you are going to be UNABLE to stay away from engineering.
> 
> You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. Why? Because it is NOT a real condition. It is NOT a real illness. It's man-made. It's a disorder invented by doctors and scientists who were trying too hard, to make money. We're a socialised species, it's in our nature to connect and be friends with the humans around us. For a doctor to say that some people are born without the necessary survival skills (not self-survival, I'm talking about the survival of our species) is arrogant beyond beleif, not to mention cruel.
> 
> You want to know what kind of person YOU are, as a "sufferer of SAD"? You are a people person. You have an incontrollable desire to make the other people around you happy. You can't fight it. You can't hide it. You've been blessed with that much sincerity, even if you did your best to stay silent, your natural instincts will fight your mind, and this will manifest itself in the form of blushing, sweating, stuttering, nausea etc.
> 
> The mind is the last sacred thing left. We don't know how it works, and we never will. The will is locked away in the mind. That's why if a surgeon and science team was to cut it open to find out how it works, like it is some sort of man-made machine they want to analyze and fix, your will to live will be tapped, and you will die.
> 
> SAD is a by-product of modern society. The more the man tries to control us, there will be more speculation about mental illnesses and disorders. Speculation, in this sense, is bad. Why would we analyze what CAN go wrong? What COULD be wrong? Will that help the sufferer? To tell them what's wrong, and they must do this, they must take these meds, they must see this expert, to be cured? Cured from an illness, that is locked away inside the mind? Can anyone read minds? Does anyone know how the mind REALLY works? If I didn't know how laptops worked, would you trust me to know what's wrong with YOUR broken laptop? No, you wouldn't, because I don't have the knowledge necessary to diagnose. And neither do the self-proclaimed SAD gurus.
> 
> I live in the moment. In school I wanted to speak to everyone, but society taught me to fear strangers. Why should I? Why should I fear my fellow humans? But I listened to society. I feared to make new friends, to become isolated and be alone with my own thoughts. But even then, my thoughts turned outwards to other people. BECAUSE IM A HUMAN, I AM SOCIALISED. I-AM-NOT-HARDWIRED-TO-BE-ALONE. If the earliest humans avoided each other and isolated themselves, we would not be here.
> 
> You wanna have a good conversation with a stranger? Make them talk about themselves, and keep that subject going as long as possible. Don't plan the conversation out in your head beforehand. When a man approaches a girl he likes, he will try to plan the interaction, he will visualize a routine and hope it happens. What DOES happen, then? The interaction goes nothing like the way he imagined, and he started stuttering and panicing. This what you do, isn't it? Before you start a conversation with your friends, people your comfortable with, do you try and plan out the conversation? Do you choose a list of topics to arm yourself with beforehand? No. What do you do? You run with it, in the moment. Proper conversation is LIVE and flowing. It's instinctive. It does not require concious thought or any effort on your part. IT...IS...HARDWIRED!!! This is what I am doing now. I am thinking ALOUD. I am typing my thoughts onto this screen as they occur to me. If we were face-to-face, it would NOT be more difficult. It would be EASIER. Why? Because we have body language, vocal tone, eye contact and everything else to help communication.
> 
> The only thing in this world that matters, is SURVIVAL in REPLICATION. Love, friends, sex, food, chemicals, water and comfort. Those are the things we're HARDWIRED to seek. All the rest? Such as money, is a means to an end. Most of the material CRAP that money can buy is non-essential. It is BULL****.


You seem to be very confused. Social anxiety is very real.

To say that social anxiety is not a real problem because it is not a naturally occurring free-floating entity but merely something that happens in our minds is absurd. There are many human behaviours and beliefs that arise out of our interactions - language, morals, aesthetics and dozens more. The fact that these are socially constructed does not make them any less real.


----------



## Must be the Ganja

curly said:


> You seem to be very confused. Social anxiety is very real.
> 
> To say that social anxiety is not a real problem because it is not a naturally occurring free-floating entity but merely something that happens in our minds is absurd. There are many human behaviours and beliefs that arise out of our interactions - language, morals, aesthetics and dozens more. The fact that these are socially constructed does not make them any less real.


You are correct my friend.

Social anxiety is real. But the point is, it's not a mental "disorder".


----------



## S to the Power of 3

<--------- Must be the Ganja has returned under a new username. I had some issues with my other account, I lost my password and the e-mail used with my account has been deleted due to the amount of spam that was accumulating. But, here I am. Must be the Ganja = S to the Power of 3.

I am having a hard time letting this thread go. I truly beleive in what I am saying to the point where I KNOW I am right and that it works. Unfortunately, alot of people on here are not going to believe something that cannot be proven. And this is the problem, I cannot prove to you that what I am saying is true. My only hope is to convince you enough to try it long enough and find out for yourself. You are not as alone in this "Social Anxiety" as you think you are.

They're only two purposes. You have been charged with two primary instincts that influence every ****ing thing you do in your life. They are: to survive AND to replicate. Modern society makes surviving ALOT easier. Back when the world began, humans must have constantly been on the run from other predators, the elements and god knows what else that could kill them. Modern society has made replication ALOT harder. Take a look at the divorce statistics in the USA and the UK. Take a look at the amount of fatherless children in the USA and the UK. Take a look at the amount of quality alpha females walking all over nice guy losers, parting them with their cash whilst drinking the semen of bad boys and criminals on the sly.

To touch a little more on replication, where do you meet your future husband/wife these days? On the street (live conversation with a complete stranger your attracted to, yeah, good one), in a nightclub (pelting her with drinks all night so you can taint your limp cock with clymidia, no thanks), on the internet (hmmm, but can you REALLY be sure the person is all they're making themself out to be?), on holiday (this is a long shot for a **** load of reasons) or at work? Work is probobly the best option if you look at it from a certain point-of-view. But then again, if it doesn't work out, if the relationship doesn't work out, it could easily become breaktime/staffroom gossip and your chances of meeting someone in that same workplace are then greatly reduced. This is subject to the breakup situation itself of course, but I'm sure you can see the element of risk surrounding that one. 

To the person who said that Social Anxiety Disorder is not a "free-floating entity". I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I think you mean that it's real because the mind makes it real? Which would be an excellent point. When you read a well-written book, the author touches your mind with his creativity and you get a mental picture of the scenes he sets out and you have an emotional response to certain characters. BUT the characters are not actually real, they're just words printed on papers, but your mind makes them real. This is EXACTLY the point I'm making about Social Anxiety Disorder. It's all in your mind. It's man-made. It's ALL in the concious mind. It's you thinking "Social Anxiety Disorder" everytime someone becomes uncomfortable with your presence or takes a disliking to you. It's you thinking "Social Anxiety Disorder" everytime you receive a party invite. It's you thinking "Social Anxiety Disorder" when you can feel yourself slipping into a state of depression. It's supposed to just be a name to acknowledge a condition that is considered treatable and beatable. But some people don't see it that way. Some people hide behind it and use it as a scapegoat to call upon when things get too bad (maybe not always, but still). Some people.....they are a walking advert, a personification, a self-defining/defined Social Anxiety Disorder. They are owned by it. They are controlled at will just by the thought of it (all thanks to the man). But I want to change that. 

Fight club philosophy: You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else. You are not your bank account. You are not the clothes you wear. You are not the contents of your wallet. YOU ARE NOT YOUR BOWEL CANCER. You are not your grande late. You are not the car you drive. You are not your ****ing khakis!

The one in caps is the most applicable here.


----------



## S to the Power of 3

There is no such thing in the world as absoloute reality. What you think is real is actually only your mind telling you it is. 

You do not have a disorder. Whatever has happened in your past that has made you scared of socialising is actually a lesson on how NOT to treat people. It depends on what you do with this lesson. Do you keep it to yourself and repeat it over and over with the voice in your mind, while you isolate yourself from people not as wise as you are? Do you go out and preach to everyone and tell them how they should behave, like you know it all? Or do you find a balance? Do you have faith that there is also wonderful people in this world, as well as the bad people? Do you want to even give yourself a CHANCE to find them? Alot of people in this thread have called me interesting, stated they liked me, added me as friends, defended my view etc...would this of happened if I had remained shackled to my "Social Anxiety Disorder"? Would I even be here, bothering to post essays? Would I have elicited defensive responses from the non-beleivers (who cannot say why I am wrong, but still say that I am)? 

I look around other threads on this website and I see so much potential completely ****ing wasted. So many brilliant and intelligent minds, thoughtful, insightful, caring, sympthatetic, understanding and with a willingness to boost each others shattered self-esteem...all of this trapped behind a keyboard. So that what should be said and done out in the real world is instead remaining hidden out in the cyber darkness, in a remote corner of the internet where only your fellow "sufferers" know or think to look.


----------



## caithiggs

You lost me at "There's no such thing as Social Anxiety" hahaha. People always lose me with that opinion.

Cave men probably didn't have SA though. Except I bet there were violent cave men that like beat their children and stuff. Maybe cave men still had psych issues, they just didn't have words for it. Also, do you have proof of when language began? Nope! Cave men could probably read minds.


----------



## S to the Power of 3

Cave men had bodies so they had body language. 

We have always had vocals, so therefore we have always had language. What do you think, just because your not fluent in the earliest human languages (grunting and screaming) does not mean that they weren't. A language is defined as a way two beings communicate how they are feeling or what they are thinking.

People who are scared of socialising display closed gestures (eyes down, unsmiling, arms crossed, back to the room etc) as a defense mechanism. It's a non-verbal cue that they want to be left alone, you don't even think about it, you just do it. It works a HELL of alot better than going around every person in the room and saying "Don't talk to me".


----------



## S to the Power of 3

caithiggs said:


> You lost me at "There's no such thing as Social Anxiety" hahaha. People always lose me with that opinion.
> 
> Cave men probably didn't have SA though. Except I bet there were violent cave men that like beat their children and stuff. Maybe cave men still had psych issues, they just didn't have words for it. Also, do you have proof of when language began? Nope! Cave men could probably read minds.


I know you typed "hahaha" but I would bet my annual wage that you did not laugh at my post. And I would win.


----------



## S to the Power of 3

joinmartin said:


> Scorpius, some of the stuff you say is interesting and some of it doesn't make sense.
> 
> The whole computer thing is the old metaphor for the mind. The mind is not a computer. It created the computer not the other way around.
> 
> Newer therapy and development processes work more from the personal ecology metaphor of the human system.
> 
> However, of course, there is some merit in utilisation of the computer metaphor.
> 
> Having said that, a blanket assumption that the problem is in the subconscious is a risky and a tricky one.
> 
> Yes, there may well be some subconscious stuff going on but we need to look at positive intention and many things besides and seek alignment rather than assuming that we need to go in and fix these things like they are some sort of defective software or broken part.
> 
> Yes, SA is a mental disorder. It can manifest itself as that.


What's the definition of a computer?

I thought it was something that recieved an input, processes it and then outputs accordingly.


----------



## caithiggs

S to the Power of 3 said:


> I know you typed "hahaha" but I would bet my annual wage that you did not laugh at my post. And I would win.


Hey, internet talk is a type of language. Do you ever laugh in your head though? Like you know how you have thoughts in sentences in your head, do you ever have laughter in there too? I do! I also laugh a lot in real life. When I'm having verbal out loud conversation, I laugh outloud. When I'm having nonverbal, reading or writing, conversation, I laugh in my head or in text. Maybe I am the only one? Now if you saw me type "lol", which you may in fact see me do. I can assure you I unlikely laughed out loud, or even in my head. I probably literally went "lol" in my head. My "lol"s are nervous laughter. My "hahaha"s are genuine laughter, albeit, not out loud.

Yes, you deserved that lengthy explanation. Ha!


----------



## voospenvi2734

Sorry... ops


----------



## diamondheart89

Well, thank god you have it all figured out! 
:|


----------



## S to the Power of 3

caithiggs said:


> Hey, internet talk is a type of language. Do you ever laugh in your head though? Like you know how you have thoughts in sentences in your head, do you ever have laughter in there too? I do! I also laugh a lot in real life. When I'm having verbal out loud conversation, I laugh outloud. When I'm having nonverbal, reading or writing, conversation, I laugh in my head or in text. Maybe I am the only one? Now if you saw me type "lol", which you may in fact see me do. I can assure you I unlikely laughed out loud, or even in my head. I probably literally went "lol" in my head. My "lol"s are nervous laughter. My "hahaha"s are genuine laughter, albeit, not out loud.
> 
> Yes, you deserved that lengthy explanation. Ha!





Dustii7 said:


> This is my first time actually talking with an insane person. its kind of exciting! Never know what your gonna say next.


Listen just because she laughs in her own head, but not aloud, you don't have to call her insane. It's cruel man.


----------



## S to the Power of 3

diamondheart420 said:


> Well, thank god you have it all figured out!
> :|


Figured what out? What do you mean by "it all"?

It's fine that you don't want to run with this. I'm under no delusions and in no way did I expect everyone to agree or see my point of view. In fact, I'm suprised at the amount of people so far that have.

What's interesting though is why non-beleivers would come into this thread (which is posted in the positive thinking forum btw) and say that I am wrong without offering reasons why. I mean, seriously, if you backtrack through this thread there isn't a single non-beleiver who has shared any of their past experiences or revealed anything about themselves that would help them discredit what I am saying. They just come in, say I am wrong, insult me or make a sarcastic comment and then leave. Normally I wouldn't care, but there are other people in this thread who think I have a point and I believe I can give them a better outlook on this whole "Social Anxiety Disorder" but your comments can serve for nothing but stiring doubt in these people who are trying to better their lives. If you don't like me/believe me, then fine, but for the sake of the others I've mentioned, make yourself scare and do your own thing.


----------



## Jrock123

Yeah dumbahss i grew up in a social life i always had people around me but do you think i adjusted and felt normal in that social type environment? No cuz i have a disorder!! and as hard as i try to make conversation or try not look nervous, it doesnt work! Ur brain is fried! shut up!


----------



## doodleflap

S to the Power of 3 said:


> Figured what out? What do you mean by "it all"?
> 
> It's fine that you don't want to run with this. I'm under no delusions and in no way did I expect everyone to agree or see my point of view. In fact, I'm suprised at the amount of people so far that have.
> 
> What's interesting though is why non-beleivers would come into this thread (which is posted in the positive thinking forum btw) and say that I am wrong without offering reasons why. I mean, seriously, if you backtrack through this thread there isn't a single non-beleiver who has shared any of their past experiences or revealed anything about themselves that would help them discredit what I am saying. They just come in, say I am wrong, insult me or make a sarcastic comment and then leave. Normally I wouldn't care, but there are other people in this thread who think I have a point and I believe I can give them a better outlook on this whole "Social Anxiety Disorder" but your comments can serve for nothing but stiring doubt in these people who are trying to better their lives. If you don't like me/believe me, then fine, but for the sake of the others I've mentioned, make yourself scare and do your own thing.


"Non-believers" (such as myself) come into this thread because the title is provocative and invalidating to the way we experience the world. The term "Social Anxiety Disorder" merely describes a group of people who experience the world in a similar, and pathogenic, way. In that definition, it exists because we exist.

So what is your main argument here? That

1. people are biologically programmed to be social beings
2. modern society and technology have overridden this programming to make people more isolated and less social
3. Social Anxiety Disorder is not a true mental illness, but a made-up construct

I don't think anybody is arguing with 1 and 2. And as for 3, sidestepping the fact that it doesn't logically follow from your other points, I would partially agree with you as well. The term itself, "Social Anxiety Disorder," is in fact a made-up, constructed term. It's not intended as anything more than a diagnosis, which is just a category doctors use to figure out the best treatment for a patient. Are there some people who receive a diagnosis and then come to adopt it as their identity? Of course, but that happens with any and all long-term illnesses which negatively affect our quality of life (cancer, depression, personality disorders, etc.).

I have social anxiety. And PTSD, and depression. Why? Because, as you said, my brain has been re-wired by my life experiences to no longer function as intended. Not only psychologically, but physiologically as well -- long-term trauma (in my case sexual abuse), pathological thinking and extended periods of depression can physically alter brain chemistry. Neurological pathways get broken and cross-wired.

So what is the solution? With or without the aid of professionals, we attempt to re-wire our minds. This takes years. In the interim, what can we do? By posting this topic with the intentionally grating title "There is no such thing as Social Anxiety Disorder," what did you hope to accomplish, and why are you surprised when our hackles are raised?


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## S to the Power of 3

Jrock123 said:


> Yeah dumbahss i grew up in a social life i always had people around me but do you think i adjusted and felt normal in that social type environment? No cuz i have a disorder!! and as hard as i try to make conversation or try not look nervous, it doesnt work! Ur brain is fried! shut up!


I also grew up in a social life. My mum and dad are known, liked and respected by everyone in our home town (within a certain age bracket), they are PEOPLE people. I have an extremely close family beyond them as well, my brothers, sisters (all atleast 20 years older), aunties, uncles, in-laws, cousins, nephews and neices who visit our house EVERY single week. They come round our house, just to chat and be with their family. This is the perfect social background. But despite it all, in school and work I have always been the shy guy. I have exhibited all the symptoms of social anxiety disorder (except maybe the most severe ones) and recently it drove me to clinical depression and daily suicidal thoughts (not fantasies, I mean actually considering it as a viable option). In school I would only talk to the people in my own small social circle, with anyone else I would just tense up and go blank.

No one in my family has ever heard of Social Anxiety Disorder, they were addament I was just a little shy and frightened to come out of my shell. Out of fear, more than anything. If I was exposed to the idea of Social Anxiety Disorder at a young age then I would no doubt of hidden myself behind it like you are now.

I hope your attitude is not always like it is now. Being good at socialising is not exactly about "making conversation" or "not lookinng nervous", it's about making the people around you feel comfortable. Something which that kind of response would not do.


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## puffins

i hate this thread so much....i cant even read anything. Didnt the main guy in fight club have an obvious mental illness?


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## S to the Power of 3

doodleflap said:


> So what is the solution? With or without the aid of professionals, we attempt to re-wire our minds. This takes years. In the interim, what can we do? By posting this topic with the intentionally grating title "There is no such thing as Social Anxiety Disorder," what did you hope to accomplish, and why are you surprised when our hackles are raised?


To fire people up and inspire them to go out and do something. With me being one of the worst for procrastination, I feel it is important. Afterall, anyone reading this thread is, in fact, procrastinating, because posting on an internet forum does very little for Social Anxiety experienced in the "real world".

You say "intentionally grating" as though I purpose to annoy people and take Social Anxiety Disorder away from them. I have absoloutely nothing to gain by doing that and you will just have to take my word for it that I despise people who troll internet forums.

The outlook is to stop looking at yourself as someone hanicapped, and disadvantaged. Instead look at yourself as someone who is not socially conditioned. Someone who has not explored enough of humanity. Alot of people have not been through the things that you, for one example, have. This means that, socially, your starting block to be good at socialising (and to be someone who enjoys it) is well behind the average persons. Luckily though, there is no finish line, except death. And I have not stated that this is quick fix, that you could read this thread and suddenly become popular or change your life overnight. I agree with you, it could take years to become socially skilled intuitive, to change your "nerological pathways" until you enjoy socialising. If it's going to take that long, then I don't see what extra motivation can do to harm the situation.

You read bad thoughts and bad, depressing posts on this site all the time and you give kind replies. What's ironic that when someone comes on here and tries to be positive and get you fired up, that person is questioned, laughed at, disagreed with etc and not given the time and thought to even be properly understood. It's a funny old world, ey? But you know that.


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## puffins

Okay so i ended up reading some of this page...i think the problem is that everyone has had anxiety from a different point in their life...some well accomplished socially suddenly find inner thoughts and judgements projected onto other people...some just havent been in enough social situations to feel comfortable. The problem with some opoinions here is theyre not written to be opinions but rather facts, which sets up a discussion turned sour and offensive.


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## S to the Power of 3

puffins said:


> i hate this thread so much....i cant even read anything. Didnt the main guy in fight club have an obvious mental illness?


Yes he had psychosis.

Instead of helping himself he set out to destroy himself. The book of fight club differed from the film ending. In the book, Tyler Durden killed himself right before the rigged buildings were blew up.

The philosophies are still relevant to self-help though. The story had to have an outrageous plotline and a mentally disturbed character, because, let's be honest, who the **** is gonna be interested in a story where the main character sets out to self-improve? Well maybe a few, but it's not going to stick out and provoke as much thought as Fight Club. And that's what artists, writers and philosphers are trying to do - provoke thoughts. Make people think and act thereafter.


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## S to the Power of 3

puffins said:


> Okay so i ended up reading some of this page...i think the problem is that everyone has had anxiety from a different point in their life...some well accomplished socially suddenly find inner thoughts and judgements projected onto other people...some just havent been in enough social situations to feel comfortable. The problem with some opoinions here is theyre not written to be opinions but rather facts, which sets up a discussion turned sour and offensive.


Written as facts and not opinions. Spot on. Maybe it's the desire to summarise and classify everything because one might be too lazy to think deeply and explore as much. I smoked weed habitually for years so I couldn't help but think deeply into things. Notice how the stoner on the first page took to my me and my opinion straight away.


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## puffins

yeah....i didnt like that movie. All it made me think of is how hot brad pitt is....


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## puffins

and to the author of the first post, although i dont doubt your intentions were good, maybe a bit more research is warranted. You kinda opened yourself to a backlash...


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## doodleflap

S to the Power of 3 said:


> To fire people up and inspire them to go out and do something. With me being one of the worst for procrastination, I feel it is important. Afterall, anyone reading this thread is, in fact, procrastinating, because posting on an internet forum does very little for Social Anxiety experienced in the "real world".
> 
> You say "intentionally grating" as though I purpose to annoy people and take Social Anxiety Disorder away from them. I have absoloutely nothing to gain by doing that and you will just have to take my word for it that I despise people who troll internet forums.
> 
> The outlook is to stop looking at yourself as someone hanicapped, and disadvantaged. Instead look at yourself as someone who is not socially conditioned. Someone who has not explored enough of humanity. Alot of people have not been through the things that you, for one example, have. This means that, socially, your starting block to be good at socialising (and to be someone who enjoys it) is well behind the average persons. Luckily though, there is no finish line, except death. And I have not stated that this is quick fix, that you could read this thread and suddenly become popular or change your life overnight. I agree with you, it could take years to become socially skilled intuitive, to change your "nerological pathways" until you enjoy socialising. If it's going to take that long, then I don't see what extra motivation can do to harm the situation.
> 
> You read bad thoughts and bad, depressing posts on this site all the time and you give kind replies. What's ironic that when someone comes on here and tries to be positive and get you fired up, that person is questioned, laughed at, disagreed with etc and not given the time and thought to even be properly understood. It's a funny old world, ey? But you know that.


Well I say intentionally grating because it's obvious that posting a topic with the title you chose on a forum specifically for people WITH Social Anxiety would be provocative. Invalidating someone's world experience isn't positive. Maybe the outcome could be positive, maybe you could cause them to reflect more and think about your words and why they were upsetting, but the gut instinct reaction is to express anger or frustration. Which isn't surprising.


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## Jrock123

yeah dude you need to give the computer a break and not think too much or you're gonna hurt your poor lil brain


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## S to the Power of 3

doodleflap said:


> Well I say intentionally grating because it's obvious that posting a topic with the title you chose on a forum specifically for people WITH Social Anxiety would be provocative. Invalidating someone's world experience isn't positive. Maybe the outcome could be positive, maybe you could cause them to reflect more and think about your words and why they were upsetting, but the gut instinct reaction is to express anger or frustration. Which isn't surprising.


So trying to eliminate their negative world view is NOT positive? Strange logic.

As for the latter - they should not take it personally. It's not the sufferers own fault they have Social Anxiety Disorder anymore than it's their own fault when they catch a cold. Would they get offended if I tried to play down the fact they had a cold? Maybe yes because they wouldn't feel as "damaged", but maybe no because they require more sympathy. Having said all of that, if they let Social Anxiety Disorder rule them and not do anything about it, then that is their own fault.


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## S to the Power of 3

Jrock123 said:


> yeah dude you need to give the computer a break and not think too much or you're gonna hurt your poor lil brain


Using a computer requires very little thought for me, but I'm greatful for your concern.


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## puffins

why is everyone trying to prove everyone else wrong here..........i smell some overinflated egos....and it stinks.


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## S to the Power of 3

Everyone wants the other readers to understand what they're saying. 

They are a few exceptions, of course, who know who they are.


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## puffins

why is everyone trying to prove everyone else wrong here..........i smell some overinflated egos....and it stinks.


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## voospenvi2734

S to the Power of 3 said:


> Listen just because she laughs in her own head, but not aloud, you don't have to call her insane. It's cruel man.


I'm not quoting anyone, I'm responding to the original post. The views are very radical and kind of over the line. There is no such thing as SAD, just people who want to make other people happy? I know for a fact that is not true. Original poster disregards all scientific studies and research on the subject, and substitutes something with no basis for it, except implying that it's all a conspiracy by scientists and doctors to make people think they need medicine.

You don't think that's weird? I am also offended that you would tell me how I think. Plus, why bring up something that reduces hope for treatment of this on an SA support site?


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## Jrock123

S to the Power of 3 said:


> Using a computer requires very little thought for me, but I'm greatful for your concern.


k good


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## S to the Power of 3

Dustii7 said:


> I'm not quoting anyone, I'm responding to the original post. The views are very radical and kind of over the line. There is no such thing as SAD, just people who want to make other people happy? I know for a fact that is not true. Original poster disregards all scientific studies and research on the subject, and substitutes something with no basis for it, except implying that it's all a conspiracy by scientists and doctors to make people think they need medicine.
> 
> You don't think that's weird? I am also offended that you would tell me how I think. Plus, why bring up something that reduces hope for treatment of this on an SA support site?


I AM the original poster.

So you don't want to make other people happy? Interesting.

WHAT scientific studies and research are you referring to?

The point about the medicine takes the biscuit and proves you have not read the whole thread, let alone made the effort to understand the points therein.

Do not be offended, I have not once told you how you think.

How does it reduce hope for treatment, exactly?


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## voospenvi2734

S to the Power of 3 said:


> I AM the original poster.
> 
> So you don't want to make other people happy? Interesting.
> 
> WHAT scientific studies and research are you referring to?
> 
> The point about the medicine takes the biscuit and proves you have not read the whole thread, let alone made the effort to understand the points therein.
> 
> Do not be offended, I have not once told you how you think.
> 
> How does it reduce hope for treatment, exactly?


1. Hello OP
2. Do not twist my words. You said the whole reason people have SA is because they have an unfightable instinct to make other people happy. I do like making other happy, as much as any normal person, no more no less (well possibly less actually). 
3. the studies showing what social anxiety is, what causes it, how to treat it, those ones
4. No I didn't read the whole dam thread, I already told you I was responding to the original post. If you made your point clearer throughout the thread, pls clarify it for me. What I got is that you think that the mind is to understudied to know how to treat SA, and medication is not helpful and just a way for doctors and scientists to make money. 
5. Ok
6. You said there was no proper cure except inside your mind or whatever. So all these medicines and therapists are useless. Why would anyone want to believe that there is no real help?


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## S to the Power of 3

Dustii7 said:


> 1. Hello OP
> 2. Do not twist my words. You said the whole reason people have SA is because they have an unfightable instinct to make other people happy. I do like making other happy, as much as any normal person, no more no less (well possibly less actually).
> 3. the studies showing what social anxiety is, what causes it, how to treat it, those ones
> 4. No I didn't read the whole dam thread, I already told you I was responding to the original post. If you made your point clearer throughout the thread, pls clarify it for me. What I got is that you think that the mind is to understudied to know how to treat SA, and medication is not helpful and just a way for doctors and scientists to make money.
> 5. Ok
> 6. You said there was no proper cure except inside your mind or whatever. So all these medicines and therapists are useless. Why would anyone want to believe that there is no real help?


1. Hello.
2. Do not twist my words, I did not say it was the whole reason. 
3. Again, which studies?
4. If you don't want to read the whole thread, this is up to you. 
6. There is no cure for Social Anxiety. You will always become anxious to some degree when talking to strangers. Hence why "non sufferers" don't strike up conversations in the street and walk off chatting away like best friends. I didn't say therapists and medicines are useless. The point was is that they can't help you as much as you can. (and by being too lazy to read the thread concerning your disorder, wrote by someone trying to help, that has elicited over 100 replies and over 2000 views, and many thoughtful responses from people just like you is a strange way to go about helping yourself)

And no one would want to beleive that there is no help, your right in what your implying there.


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## george constanza

Must be the Ganja said:


> I don't understand most of the post, and I had to look up the meaning of the word "empirical", and I still don't understand. Out of interest, do you talk to people in person like this? Because that could be your problem.


lmfao


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## S to the Power of 3

george constanza said:


> lmfao


Thought you'd start over Jrock123?


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## voospenvi2734

3. Not going to list off the thousands of studies, google 'social anxiety' and see for yourself

6. Why read the entire thread? I understand the gist of what you are saying, and I have an opinion on it, I don't need to read the rest of the thread to decide how I think. *sigh* yessssss I know you can't be cured, do you really not understand what my point was?


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## S to the Power of 3

Dustii7 said:


> 3. Not going to list off the thousands of studies, google 'social anxiety' and see for yourself
> 
> 6. Why read the entire thread? I understand the gist of what you are saying, and I have an opinion on it, I don't need to read the rest of the thread to decide how I think. *sigh* yessssss I know you can't be cured, do you really not understand what my point was?


The point is you don't agree. So, pray, why are you still here?


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## voospenvi2734

Your right, this is pointless. You will not back down. 

Sorry I called you insane, was in a bad mood and was currently in an argument with a friend so I vented here. 

My opinion still stands that SAD is real, and can be properly treated with medication and therapy.


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## Jessie203

Mr. Ganga.. if you are able to get past SA somehow without meds or therapy and believing this caveman story which I could only stand to read half of.. that is grand and I'm happy for you. But I kindly, highly disagree.. it's definitely listed as a mental disorder for a reason, but hey you think differently.. there are shamans in different countries who would treat it differently too, no hate lol, but it's not on my level at all where you are thinking.


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## S to the Power of 3

Dustii7 said:


> Your right, this is pointless. You will not back down.
> 
> Sorry I called you insane, was in a bad mood and was currently in an argument with a friend so I vented here.
> 
> My opinion still stands that SAD is real, and can be properly treated with medication and therapy.


There is no hard feelings Dustii. You've stood up for what you believe in and actually stayed in the thread to get your point accross properly, unlike alot of people who disagreed and then progressed to petty insults and sarcasticness in order to put me down.

You say that this can be properly treated with medication and therapy, and you are right. This is what I like. A positive attitude. It's when you begin to doubt yourself and your own beleifs that things start to go wrong, and it can be a slippery slope. Trust me, I know it all too well. Medication and therapy are just tools, a kind of fuel, but you...you are the vehicle, your own progress and your own salvation are ultimately down to you.

Do not think of it as "I am going to overcome social anxiety disorder". Think of it as "I am going to become good with people...become a people person who people are comfortable and love to be around". It's possible. It's in you.

Just like people with depression should not think of it as "I am going to overcome depression." They should think of it as "I am going to be happy." You see....the more you focus on a problem, the more it becomes a problem. That's why you should keep your eyes firmly on the goal that the problem is preventing you from reaching.

"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal."


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## S to the Power of 3

kathy903 said:


> Mr. Ganga.. if you are able to get past SA somehow without meds or therapy and believing this caveman story which I could only stand to read half of.. that is grand and I'm happy for you. But I kindly, highly disagree.. it's definitely listed as a mental disorder for a reason, but hey you think differently.. there are shamans in different countries who would treat it differently too, no hate lol, but it's not on my level at all where you are thinking.


Without meds or therapy, haha.

I'm afraid not. I am on meds. Without meds and therapy, overcoming a complex psych issue could take years of trial and error and much stress, and the resulting stress could lead to secondary disorders, depression being one the most crippling.

I have been taking Duloxetine for my depression and am currently 1 month into a 3 month course. I have my first therapy session schedualed next week...but my beleifs in the point I've put accross here in this thread have been solified by the amount of progress I've made on my own, without the therapist.

You might ask why or how. Well, I've got a pretty good therapist at home in the shape of my own mother. She's 65, so very wise, and she's an excellent listener. She's the one who everyone in my family goes to when they need help with something, no matter how great or small. I overlooked the fact that alot of people may not be as lucky as I am in this respect. If a therpist is your greatest chance of being listened to, then obviously you HAVE to use therapy.

The Fight Club philosophy. The one about hitting "rock bottom". The one about "it's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything". Well...from a social standpoint...I have recently hit this rock bottom, or as close to it as reasonably possible for me. I have to say...it WAS freedom. To know that everyone had written me off. To know that everyone thought they had me figured out, was amazing. I no longer cared what people thought anymore (because I was only then doing what truly pleased me)...because what could be worse than everyone thinking your a waster that is going to spend his life fueling a pointless narcotic drug habit that he uses to treat his own depression? (which no one believed that I was suffering with. they just had me tagged as a miserable **** by nature). I still remember the feeling I got when it happened. The precise moment. When I got a rush of excitement from the pit of my stomach that rose up through me. I will always ****ing remember that.


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## spacebound_rocketship

Yeah um, the world is a lot different now. We're not cave people.


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## S to the Power of 3

tOkiOmOnsteR said:


> Yeah um, the world is a lot different now. We're not cave people.


The world is different, yes, but we are not. Not that much anyway.

Caves is just where the people *could* have lived in the early days, as they were shelter from the elements. These days, houses are the caves.


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## Ahmed 2

Some time I feel that SAS is just an illusion embedded deeply in our mind. So I think to just go out and soclize and have friend. But the problem is that whenver I do that and try to socialize, I look weired and like if I don't fit any where and I realize that SAS is real.

What to do ???


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## Witan

Must be the Ganja said:


> You think cavemen and tribesmen and women suffered from Social Anxiety Disorder? No. Why? Because...it's man-made....SAD is a by-product of modern society.


Skimmed through your post (tl;dr), but basically I agree with what I quoted above. I think the same about depression (bipolar excepted). Our technological and social development have taken us WAY out of our evolutionary element. The result is pathological. That's why therapists tell people with SA or depression to go out, take a walk, be in nature, etc.

In other words, do the things we did daily back in the "caveman days", without even thinking about it.

Planting plants and watching them grow, or being outside right as the sun is setting and the sky is turning shades of orange and red, with a cool breeze against my skin, have done more for me and my depression than any pill has *ever* done.


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## Mauricio5

Chuck palahniuk himself has agoraphobia and likely has panic disorder too.


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## warentucker

Must be the Ganja said:


> Alot of people are going to ignore this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> You are desperate for an external solution to an internal problem. A problem put there by society that is constantly ****ing with people's beleifs. I am telling you to look inside yourself and find the problems there, and the answers there as well. This requires effort. It is far easier to believe that you are different, that you are "ill". The easy option never works, btw.
> 
> I am trying to tell you that you are NOT ill, that you are fine. If you DON'T think that this is a gift in shining golden wrapping paper, then you are ****ing lost.


 so your telling me to not think so much and let things flow because this is whats natural which if tru it would still seem that i have an un natural compulsion to obsess over the very things your telling me to just let go even if i did let go there would still be doubt about whats transpierd later on and its beyond my controll i cant simply will myself not to focuse on it trust me ive tried it festers it sits it waits and when i least expect it it sends me into a spiral


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## MsDaisy

Wow, I really like this old Ganja thread. I only made it through page 4, so Ill be back after my nap.


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## rawrguy

writingupastorm said:


> Am I really expected to read all this?


This.


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## SummerSweetHeart34

It's because it isn't social anxiety disorder: it is being shy. Some of us aren't confident; some of us have become distrusting ; some of us have a hard time communicating through spoken words. Socially anxious=shy.


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## Famous

Blank brain from a good doobie is a different form of blank brain from stress related anxiety,
The former is comical.  and the latter is terrifying.


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## apx24

And people wonder why so many of us think that positive thinking is delusional.


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## Srylance

Social Anxiety is just giving a name to the beast.


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## 4evermore

Must be the Ganja said:


> You are correct my friend.
> 
> Social anxiety is real. But the point is, it's not a mental "disorder".


While, I do agree with this, bluntly telling people that 'social anxiety disorder isn't real' isn't helping anything. What I think your trying to say is that it's not a disorder because it's not in our genes. (Although medical experts beg to differ) It's something that's developed because of an event, or just over time, even if we do not remember this. It's more like an addiction than anything. A bad habit that feels impossible to control, and we hate ourselves because of it. But bad habits can be changed with time and hard work.
If that's what you meant, it would have been easier and more sensitive to say that because the term 'Social Anxiety Disorder' personally helped me identity my problem and (hopefully) work towards getting through it. For me, you saying 'there's no such thing' really shook me up that I went and cut myself. Because that term, as weird as it sounds, gives me the tiniest glimmer of hope that I'm not just shy. That this isn't part of my personality. That the confident, outgoing person I know I am inside is real. Without that knowledge, I'm better off dead.

So while I do (think) get what you're saying, try to be a little more considerate. You're not talking to your computer. There are real LIVING people on this site.


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## JustALonelyHeart

Blessed be this thread, agreed with what was said, and yes there is no social anxiety, only fear, social anxiety is just a name for the beast etc.Congrats for starting a challenging and real conversation.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333

So this guy found a time machine and decided that cavemen didn't feel any anxiety when meeting others? I call bs.


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## Athena Selene

*I am Pissed*

You are so effing stupid it's not even funny. Why don't you do some more research on Social Anxiety Disorder. It's a real mental illness and just like a physical illness like cancer, people can't help if they have it. I am not a social person thanks to my social anxiety. I am too scared to talk to people and everywhere I go I feel like I am constantly being judged. And that is only a small portion of it. People like you seriously piss me off.


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