# Any programmers here?



## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

I was watching a documentary and one of the programmers (forgot where he is from) said that programmers are in high demand because there aren't that many. The company he works for is trying to get schools (I think HS) to teach programming to kids because not that many people are getting into programming.

How long did it take you to get your degree? Is it easy to find jobs? Is the median pay around $50-60k?


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## Rainbat (Jan 5, 2012)

Programming is something that anyone can learn by simply ordering a few C++ books off amazon and keeping up with the latest languages. You can have a full-time job and start programming little projects here and there in your free time.

Software engineering is different. It incorporates all aspects of developing software, from designing flowcharts, version control, team management, programming, debugging, software life-cycles, release, etc.

Both usually possess a 4 year degree in computer science, but it's common to see programmers without a degree.

As for finding jobs, it is easy, provided you have a decent resume showing that you've worked on your own projects and enjoy learning more about the field. If you literally just have a degree, you won't like the competition. Plus, you likely have to live in a city. Rural areas aren't always great for programming work.

As for the pay, it's usually around $50k right when you start, with the median career pay being around $70-90k. Plenty of senior software engineers make six figures.


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## Earl of Lemongrab (May 15, 2012)

^Yeah, better go with a degree in computer or electrical engineering rather than CS if you only want your degree to matter.
I just noticed thatgamecompany (the developer of games like Flower and Journey) has about 6 different job openings on their website - all in technical positions like server and systems engineering. That seems to be the best route to get into game development as well - companies always need about 5x the amount of technicians than artists, so you'd much more likely get into the industry with a computer engineering degree than an arts one.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Earl of Lemongrab said:


> ^Yeah, better go with a degree in computer or electrical engineering rather than CS if you only want your degree to matter.
> I just noticed thatgamecompany (the developer of games like Flower and Journey) has about 6 different job openings on their website - all in technical positions like server and systems engineering. That seems to be the best route to get into game development as well - companies always need about 5x the amount of technicians than artists, so you'd much more likely get into the industry with a computer engineering degree than an arts one.


It's worth noting though that games development is a ***** to get into (any area, although programming is much easier than art) and that they often require you to have experience within the industry (2 years is often a standard, 5 years often for more senior roles) and they'll want to see a lot of game related projects in your portfolio.

If you do a degree try and find one that has a guaranteed work placement. Or will go out of it's way to help you get a work placement because it's a mandatory requirement (like for a year of the degree.) I'm in the UK, but all the computing related degrees (except mine which was also part of the art faculty) had mandatory work experience and though some people completely failed to get anything I'd say like 90% of people on most courses seemed to get work experience and mostly paid at that.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

hmm well I've been looking at salaries at major companies in seattle(where I want to move), microsoft entry level engineers make 90k+ and google's around there too, valve engineers make 100k+, I think im going to enjoy living there.

hmm which documentary is it?


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

^ Don't recall what the documentary was called. It'll come out again, they always do, and I'll let you know what it was.

Good to know you don't need a degree. The classes are insane, no wonder not that many people want to be programmers.

http://www.csn.edu/PDFFiles/Degree ..._Information_Technology-Software_Emphasis.pdf


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## SoloArtist (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm a senior in programming and had an internship this past summer. It was quite fun and I am enjoying it a lot.

NOT looking forward to the competition i will face in the job market. There are a lot of super nerds out there, I wish I was one. I don't have a good aptitude for taking on projects on my own, I never seem to get anywhere with them. I suck at everything I try to start. (I've been playing music since I was young and I still feel like I suck most of the time. The technical skills are there but the creativity and time management skills are not there at all!) I will probably be one of the 15% of computer science grads who honestly does not take a job in his field.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

SoloArtist said:


> I don't have a good aptitude for taking on projects on my own, I never seem to get anywhere with them. I suck at everything I try to start. (I've been playing music since I was young and I still feel like I suck most of the time. The technical skills are the


Same I can start projects, but then lose motivation and never finish them (just look at my github filled with dead projects). And I've seen the super nerds at competitions, at my school im considered a near genius (at least I hope I so, probably not) but I pale in comparison to what I've seen elsewhere.



nubly said:


> ^ Don't recall what the documentary was called. It'll come out again, they always do, and I'll let you know what it was.


thanks


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

nubly said:


> I was watching a documentary and one of the programmers (forgot where he is from) said that programmers are in high demand because there aren't that many. The company he works for is trying to get schools (I think HS) to teach programming to kids because not that many people are getting into programming.
> 
> How long did it take you to get your degree? Is it easy to find jobs? Is the median pay around $50-60k?


You thinking about into getting into programming Nubly ?

Generally speaking the pay is pretty good, particularly over your way in America from what I've been told - but for the most part the same can be said for any technical job requiring an actual skill.


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## Mugen Souls (Jun 3, 2013)

nubly said:


> ^ Don't recall what the documentary was called. It'll come out again, they always do, and I'll let you know what it was.
> 
> Good to know you don't need a degree. The classes are insane, no wonder not that many people want to be programmers.
> 
> http://www.csn.edu/PDFFiles/Degree ..._Information_Technology-Software_Emphasis.pdf


Yeah, it's super tough, especially c++. One misplaced brace and you're whole program is F'ed up. It pays very highly for a good reason.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

Mugen Souls said:


> Yeah, it's super tough, especially c++. One misplaced brace and you're whole program is F'ed up. It pays very highly for a good reason.


Yep that's why I love python, fewer syntactical details. If anyone's is interested my advice is to learn a easier higher level language (python, ruby though im personally biased towards python)


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Mugen Souls said:


> Yeah, it's super tough, especially c++. One misplaced brace and you're whole program is F'ed up. It pays very highly for a good reason.





galacticsenator said:


> Yep that's why I love python, fewer syntactical details. If anyone's is interested my advice is to learn a easier higher level language (python, ruby though im personally biased towards python)


True, but the reward for learning a harder language is clearly there :b

My brother's girlfriend programs C++ applications - she's on £47,000 ($80,000). And shes' only 27 years old ! Imagine making that kind of money in your twenties :sus


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

So could I learn C++ and say, design a simple phone app and potentially make a few quid? Not saying it would be easy but is it doable?


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

low said:


> So could I learn C++ and say, design a simple phone app and potentially make a few quid? Not saying it would be easy but is it doable?


Apps aren't written in C++, for iphone in objective-c and for android in java though you could use the NDK to write a native app, just more complicated.

I've developed pointless android apps before just to learn but I would assume creating a really good commercial app would be quite hard. Here's the android SDK to get you started http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

galacticsenator said:


> Apps aren't written in C++, for iphone in objective-c and for android in java though you could use the NDK to write a native app, just more complicated.
> 
> I've developed pointless android apps before just to learn but I would assume creating a really good commercial app would be quite hard. Here's the android SDK to get you started http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html


So is java hard to learn for a layman or is it really a degree thing?

Edit: Sorry man, the second paragraph didn't even register - brain fart. Didn't mean to be ignorant when you've already answered me. Thank you.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

low said:


> So could I learn C++ and say, design a simple phone app and potentially make a few quid? Not saying it would be easy but is it doable?


The app Gold Rush from a few years ago has died down to a large extent - a lot of big companies have come on the scene and consumers have become more disconcerning.

I wouldn't get into programming apps with the idea of making a ton of money from your own creations, although it's still worth while as a skill that can make you more employable.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

low said:


> So is java hard to learn for a layman or is it really a degree thing?
> 
> Edit: Sorry man, the second paragraph didn't even register - brain fart. Didn't mean to be ignorant when you've already answered me. Thank you.


I don't know if it's a degree thing as im not in college yet though I do know it's taught as an introductory language in many CS programs, the language itself isn't that hard but there are many other languages that are easier to learn.

Before writing something as complex as an app I would take up a tutorial on the language you want to learn, and write some console applications first then go to graphical phone apps and such, though that may seem boring it will be far easier to debug and learn the language in then directly making apps first. I also wouldn't advice just doing this for money, if you dislike it but still continue for the money you're just going to hate it even more.



Paper Samurai said:


> The app Gold Rush from a few years ago has died down to a large extent - a lot of big companies have come on the scene and consumers have become more disconcerning.
> 
> I wouldn't get into programming apps with the idea of making a ton of money from your own creations, although it's still worth while as a skill that can make you more employable.


Apparently it's still a popular skill in applying for engineering jobs, I remember seeing this infographic about google's hiring for specific positions and app dev was up there.


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

SoloArtist said:


> I'm a senior in programming and had an internship this past summer. It was quite fun and I am enjoying it a lot.
> 
> NOT looking forward to the competition i will face in the job market. There are a lot of super nerds out there, I wish I was one. I don't have a good aptitude for taking on projects on my own, I never seem to get anywhere with them. I suck at everything I try to start. (I've been playing music since I was young and I still feel like I suck most of the time. The technical skills are there but the creativity and time management skills are not there at all!) I will probably be one of the 15% of computer science grads who honestly does not take a job in his field.


Although I already graduated and currently have a job, I feel the same way. I switched majors my junior year, and kind of fell into software engineering. I was pretty good at it in an academic sense, and I'm pretty good at it on the job, but I am totally not motivated enough to actually work on building my knowledge during my off hours. I actually had an interview on site for Amazon and totally bombed it. I understand how it can seem like, in this field at least, that you can never be good enough. I've personally settled my expectations of myself by knowing that whenever the need arises, I can learn what I need to to get the job done, but that I don't really have a hobby or passion in this field. I'm not sure if that helps you at all, but I think a lot of people don't really know what they want to do so soon in life.


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## Warpedsanity (Sep 12, 2011)

I was going to go to college for it but late 10th grade I decided to go the drafting route, the plus side being I really enjoy it...the bad side is pay kinda sucks since I didn't take the college route. Only make like 25k a year, always wanted to learn programming in my free time to see if I would of loved it as well but never did. Any tips as in which route to take if your teaching yourself, which languages to start with, etc...? Never really wanted to go to college for anything after I realized I didn't have to for drafting but I suppose having a degree yields more money and easier hires I would imagine.


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

Warpedsanity said:


> I was going to go to college for it but late 10th grade I decided to go the drafting route, the plus side being I really enjoy it...the bad side is pay kinda sucks since I didn't take the college route. Only make like 25k a year, always wanted to learn programming in my free time to see if I would of loved it as well but never did. Any tips as in which route to take if your teaching yourself, which languages to start with, etc...? Never really wanted to go to college for anything after I realized I didn't have to for drafting but I suppose having a degree yields more money and easier hires I would imagine.


Without going to school, I don't know how successfully or likely it would be that someone could teach themselves the fundamental computer science ground work. I'll admit that there are many jobs you could get where you wouldn't need to know that info, but to really progress in this field I've noticed that you need to either be a good people person (very rare in IT, and much easier because of that), get a degree and study hard so you can apply that knowledge in the right situations on projects, or be a prodigy who is really good at "getting things done".

As far as how to get started, some people would recommend selecting an easy language and then creating simple apps. I'd suggest to use whatever language you want, but work on making something meaningful. It will be much easier to stay motivated if you're working towards something rather than just doing it to learn. For instance, if making games interests you, I'd say start with the a game engine like Unity because it has a lot already done for you and it's easy to use. I wouldn't try going bare bones by using Python or a similar scripting language alone, although there are books for beginners that teach you how to.

Also all of the above is assuming you want to do Programming and not Software Engineering, which almost always requires a degree and/or a lot more skill.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

this is the degree plan at one of my top university choices, a lot isn't it?
http://www.washington.edu/students/gencat/academic/comp_sci.html


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## TheaterofHope (Dec 11, 2012)

If money is your end goal you'll burn out quick. Its a passion.

Programmers always have to keep up to date with the new paradigms (e.g. languages/methods) in their work, ontop of that 8 hours of screen activity per day and constant thinking/memorizing can drag you down.

The better the pay the more you get sucked in into your career and drained. Unless you like doing it..


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

TheaterofHope said:


> 8 hours of screen activity per day


I think I get 13 maybe 14+ a day.


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## TheaterofHope (Dec 11, 2012)

galacticsenator said:


> I think I get 13 maybe 14+ a day.


Same. I think you should be worried more about the wrists and muscles associated with typing...


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

Programmers don't make as much money as you would think, and the market is pretty saturated with them too. If it's not your passion you probably won't make it big. I actually made more money as a engineer designing I.P. networks/phone systems. It did include programming too but it was a small part of the job. I made a good 85k doing that. I had a purely programming job at 60k before. It could differ too, who knows if in the United States things are different.


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## TheaterofHope (Dec 11, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Programmers don't make as much money as you would think, and the market is pretty saturated with them too. If it's not your passion you probably won't make it big. I actually made more money as a engineer designing I.P. networks/phone systems. It did include programming too but it was a small part of the job. I made a good 85k doing that. I had a purely programming job at 60k before. It could differ too, who knows if in the United States things are different.


If you own your own software, have clients, and direct a team who patches/updates it regularly you will make 100k+ and maybe one day
sell the company for 7-8 digits of $$$


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## thevandal (Aug 12, 2013)

I studied vb.net, C++ and Java in school. I really like Java. I don't code much anymore these days because I'm more into the hardware stuff. I build systems.


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## Nono441 (May 14, 2012)

kehcorpz said:


> Programmers don't make as much money as you would think, and the market is pretty saturated with them too. If it's not your passion you probably won't make it big. I actually made more money as a engineer designing I.P. networks/phone systems. It did include programming too but it was a small part of the job. I made a good 85k doing that. I had a purely programming job at 60k before. It could differ too, who knows if in the United States things are different.


Nonsense mate, the "business java code monkey low-risk low-pay 9-5" market might be saturated but the more obscure skillsets are still quite in demand at the moment. That said I agree 100% on being passionate, besides if you are then you'll naturally become more proficient in lots of different programming domains as you go, and should always find a decent job.

I hear DBA's are quite the gold mine lately as well, though it's not strictly programming :yes


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

TheaterofHope said:


> If you own your own software, have clients, and direct a team who patches/updates it regularly you will make 100k+ and maybe one day
> sell the company for 7-8 digits of $$$


You don't have to own your own software. Edward Snow was making between $145k and $200k depending on who you believe. He is 29 and basically working for a government contractor.

I work for a Wall Street firm and people here make $120K to $200k if they are not upper management. Climb up the ladder another notch and you're making $300k. Climb another rung to Managing Director of a department and you're making $400k. But that's not even the top of the ladder.

As a programmer you have to find the industries that pay the big bucks.


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

AngelClare said:


> You don't have to own your own software. Edward Snow was making between $145k and $200k depending on who you believe. He is 29 and basically working for a government contractor.
> 
> I work for a Wall Street firm and people here make $120K to $200k if they are not upper management. Climb up the ladder another notch and you're making $300k. Climb another rung to Managing Director of a department and you're making $400k. But that's not even the top of the ladder.
> 
> As a programmer you have to find the industries that pay the big bucks.


I was reading how wall street programmers for HFT made more than that, but it sounds like a soulless job.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

galacticsenator said:


> I was reading how wall street programmers for HFT made more than that, but it sounds like a soulless job.


The money makes up for the soul crushing.


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## Secret Sparkplug (Aug 18, 2013)

> programmers are in high demand because *there aren't that many*


:haha


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## twitchy666 (Apr 21, 2013)

*Statement*

sorry if it's too much details
I am a details man

programming and computer are words I don't like to hear. I am an expert.

Both these words were the most important to me at pre-school age.

As for: drugs. Mmmm. There are... hmmm :afr a LOT of those
Some proportion are publicly for sale (face cream... make-up) some strictly prescription. Vitamin supplements. Many restricted / illegal... sport legislation...Anyone who says "drugs?" I can't deal with these people. Specify one? I want to hacksaw, chainsaw or crowbar them.
Weather? bit cold? Bit warm? Bit wet?

A person says 'computer'. I assume on a grand scale that they mean THE WEB. Or a game. Personal Com-poo-tah? There are machines that won't fit into Buckingham Palace, and might explode until severely air conditioned.
Food on a plate in a restaurant. Know how it got there? Care? North Sea fishermen? Caribbean Island coconut? Spice from India? Just eat it?

I got so lucky to get involved with databases because corporate businesses need them. Hospitals. The military. Corner shops too. Not a toy. 'A computer' is not a fluffy lapdog with buttons on it. If you read this, it just came across the planet from an expensive hot processor and an array of spinning disks. Look at members here and ask for them to listed by the one who made the most posts, or how many per section, ie. Geek Central. It'd take a while to count and write the result on your forefinger.

Data Analysis ain't boring. Years of telecomms, I'll never forget the number of countries, provinces, states, counties and their area codes and setting a tariff for each line who calls another... Christmas Island, Coco Island, Hebrides...

I thought I'd be coping with deep calculus and Computer Aided Design of cars, ships, bridges... The world thinks of nothing but Business and earning the most money. Maths to summarise trillions of dates of sales per customer (cars per country from which country and which colour sells the most? No .NET, java, javascript, python, php. Ruby-on-Rails and so many latest buzzwords for IT. "IT" Some think it's really complex. Some think it's so basic, boring and weird. It's none of that.


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

twitchy666 said:


> sorry if it's too much details
> I am a details man
> 
> programming and computer are words I don't like to hear. I am an expert.
> ...


You have an interesting way of communicating.. :blank


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

yukikodunkzone said:


> You have an interesting way of communicating.. :blank


That's cuz he's a com-poo-tah programmer 

But I would argue that DBA's are not computer programmers. The database is a computer program written by programmers that DBA's use. Stored procedures are procedural but they are 90% SQL.


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## forex (Dec 29, 2010)

low said:


> So could I learn C++ and say, design a simple phone app and potentially make a few quid? Not saying it would be easy but is it doable?


Lol , its not something you do overnight ... You know how hard it is ...


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

AngelClare said:


> That's cuz he's a com-poo-tah programmer
> 
> But I would argue that DBA's are not computer programmers. The database is a computer program written by programmers that DBA's use. Stored procedures are procedural but they are 90% SQL.


What area of programming are you in btw? I get the impression you know your stuff. :b


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

AngelClare said:


> That's cuz he's a com-poo-tah programmer
> 
> But I would argue that DBA's are not computer programmers. The database is a computer program written by programmers that DBA's use. Stored procedures are procedural but they are 90% SQL.


I think it would be a little clearer if we used more specific job titles, instead of "programmer". I would say that DBA's manage the database, database developers create it, and software engineers use the database for the applications they write. The latter two could be considered programmers, but they work in different areas.

I work in a very small and disorganized place, and we don't even have a database., so my 2 cents might not be accurate.


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

Paper Samurai said:


> What area of programming are you in btw? I get the impression you know your stuff. :b


I used to do J2EE programming but the last 5 years I've been doing C# and core java at an investment bank. I'm definitely not elite. My SA has always made me feel incompetent but recently as I've been asked to interview candidates with amazing credentials who can't answer my very fair questions I've started to think a little better of myself.


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## GetOutOfMyHouse (Jan 9, 2012)

...


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## nullptr (Sep 21, 2012)

GetOutOfMyHouse said:


> I'm a certified Java Programmer but I don't have a job because of my SAD, I like to program in different languages but Java is my favorite.
> 
> Right now I'm a freelance programmer (including web development and sometimes graphic desing) for a cousin's company but is not really that much what I make, I don't know what makes you believe there's not many people programming I think the opposite is happening...


Then you haven't had much experience with a variety of languages, I hate to sound elitist but once you've seen a non java language it changes your life.


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

AngelClare said:


> I used to do J2EE programming but the last 5 years I've been doing C# and core java at an investment bank. I'm definitely not elite. My SA has always made me feel incompetent but recently as I've been asked to interview candidates with amazing credentials who can't answer my very fair questions I've started to think a little better of myself.


One of the key reasons I've decided to seek help with my SA is how horribly I do during interviews! I think I know my stuff pretty well, but for some reason I always trip up during interviews. I had one a few weeks ago where some guy was trying to set a scenario up for a database design question. He was telling me all this extra information that had nothing to do with the problem, and he even changed the problem when I started to ask questions. I totally didn't understand what it was he wanted and felt like I flunked not because I couldn't design a simple database for his situation, but because I didn't know how to ask for clarification, or how to ask him to repeat himself but with fewer words and slower. I still am not sure how to act in an interview. Next time I think maybe I should ask if I can write it down and then read back the question. I hope you ask simpler/shorter questions during your interviews!


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

AngelClare said:


> I used to do J2EE programming but the last 5 years I've been doing C# and core java at an investment bank. I'm definitely not elite. My SA has always made me feel incompetent but recently as I've been asked to interview candidates with amazing credentials who can't answer my very fair questions I've started to think a little better of myself.


Dude, that sounds pretty cool. Are you more into recruitment now then?



yukikodunkzone said:


> One of the key reasons I've decided to seek help with my SA is how horribly I do during interviews! I think I know my stuff pretty well, but for some reason I always trip up during interviews. I had one a few weeks ago where some guy was trying to set a scenario up for a database design question. He was telling me all this extra information that had nothing to do with the problem, and he even changed the problem when I started to ask questions. I totally didn't understand what it was he wanted and felt like I flunked not because I couldn't design a simple database for his situation, but because I didn't know how to ask for clarification, or how to ask him to repeat himself but with fewer words and slower. I still am not sure how to act in an interview. Next time I think maybe I should ask if I can write it down and then read back the question. I hope you ask simpler/shorter questions during your interviews!


Are you my long lost twin :b I have the exact same problem, I failed a couple of interviews in the last few months myself. One was a phone interview too (which I thought would be better) but I started to panic for some reason and totally fluffed it. :doh

I did manage to land a short term contract with a software company at the start of the year though - so I can occasionally fake confidence I guess.


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

Paper Samurai said:


> Dude, that sounds pretty cool. Are you more into recruitment now then?
> 
> Are you my long lost twin :b I have the exact same problem, I failed a couple of interviews in the last few months myself. One was a phone interview too (which I thought would be better) but I started to panic for some reason and totally fluffed it. :doh
> 
> I did manage to land a short term contract with a software company at the start of the year though - so I can occasionally fake confidence I guess.


That's funny, because a few months ago I started a very short term contract part time, while I worked my full time job. It was for a startup and they were all very close knit and talked throughout the day in a very open office. It was terrifying. I never said a single thing unless we were out to lunch or something. For some reason at lunch, I was almost the only one talking. But in a big group setting like at work, I don't get how people can talk as much as they were and get stuff done. After a few days, every stopped talking to me or saying hi and I felt kinda invisible. Needless to say, they did not want to extend the contract (it was just for a week to see if I'd fit in, I guess).


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## AngelClare (Jul 10, 2012)

yukikodunkzone said:


> One of the key reasons I've decided to seek help with my SA is how horribly I do during interviews! I think I know my stuff pretty well, but for some reason I always trip up during interviews. I had one a few weeks ago where some guy was trying to set a scenario up for a database design question. He was telling me all this extra information that had nothing to do with the problem, and he even changed the problem when I started to ask questions. I totally didn't understand what it was he wanted and felt like I flunked not because I couldn't design a simple database for his situation, but because I didn't know how to ask for clarification, or how to ask him to repeat himself but with fewer words and slower. I still am not sure how to act in an interview. Next time I think maybe I should ask if I can write it down and then read back the question. I hope you ask simpler/shorter questions during your interviews!


@Paper Samurai,

In our team, if we are hiring someone new who will be doing work similar to my specialty I will interview them. My manager and other higher ups also interview them but I probably do the more technical interview. At the end we all share our impressions of the candidate.

@yukikodunkzone

For an interview, just study certification material and interview questions on the internet. Some interviewers ask unfair pointless trivia questions. So you can't ace every interview. If you're nervous take a few interviews for jobs you don't really want. It warms you up. Or just accept that you may flop the first few interviews. After a while, you'll see the same questions over and over again and you ace the interview.

I've never had a conference about a candidate where anyone cared if they were nervous. They just want you to answer the questions correctly. Even a single wrong answer can cost you the job because the questions asked are things the interviewer expects that you should know.

Very basic things you absolutely should know:

How threads communicate. What a database index is. The difference between clustered and non-clustered indexes. How to design a simple normalized database schema. How to resolve memory leaks. Common causes of memory leaks. Garbage collection and memory management. Common design patterns. How to write thread safe code.


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

AngelClare said:


> Very basic things you absolutely should know:
> 
> How threads communicate. What a database index is. The difference between clustered and non-clustered indexes. How to design a simple normalized database schema. How to resolve memory leaks. Common causes of memory leaks. Garbage collection and memory management. Common design patterns. How to write thread safe code.


What bugs me is that I consider those very advanced topics. Most entry level software engineers only have rudimentary knowledge of databases. What bugs me even more is that a few "senior" developers I know don't even know how to do OO, even though they've been writing Java apps for 2+ years. :roll Sure I can memorize those topics you've mentioned, but how the heck am I going to have actual experience using them?


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## GetOutOfMyHouse (Jan 9, 2012)

...


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## newusernamethatdoesntexi (Jun 15, 2013)

GetOutOfMyHouse said:


> It's actually not that difficult, you just have to do it once, try at home, and you're right about the senior developers, my ex-collage mates tell me about it.


If it's something I can learn at home and without an actual database, I'm sure it could be picked up on the job. Personally for me, I probably won't remember anything I do on my own in a small isolated sample problem. I either need a lot of background info and do a lot of studying up, or I need to actually be doing it multiple times.

For instance, we learned factory patterns for OOP in school, but it wasn't until I created factories on the job a few times, and used them, that I actually began to really understand it. Maybe that's not what they look for in interviews though like maybe they just want to know that you've heard of it?


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## riptide991 (Feb 1, 2012)

yukikodunkzone said:


> If it's something I can learn at home and without an actual database, I'm sure it could be picked up on the job. Personally for me, I probably won't remember anything I do on my own in a small isolated sample problem. I either need a lot of background info and do a lot of studying up, or I need to actually be doing it multiple times.
> 
> For instance, we learned factory patterns for OOP in school, but it wasn't until I created factories on the job a few times, and used them, that I actually began to really understand it. Maybe that's not what they look for in interviews though like maybe they just want to know that you've heard of it?


I'm like the opposite. You give me one of those books that teaches by examples and I will be all like "wtf". You give me a book on theory that also goes over syntax, I can sit down and start programming right away.

Hell the way I learned C# is by learning about the compiler/common language runtime, everything there is to know about the headers, how it converts solutions to intermediate language the entire inner workings and I was able to code in c# really well pretty much right away without any practice. I never even picked up any books that taught by example.

I just need to know how something works. If i don't get how a compiler works and its rule sets I will just find it tough.


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## haine (Jul 22, 2013)

Wow there are a lot of programmers in here. I studied Java,C++,visual basic,html and php in school, but I really dont feel it. Maybe because its too hard for me lol. 
But if i have to choose a specialty, i would choose html or php or any web based programs.


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