# What if therapy is basically a joke?



## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

Ever thought about this? What if therapy doesn't work and even the therapists are aware of this but since they're paid for it they don't care?

Imagine someone who has low self-esteem goes to a therapist and then complains about how unworthy he is and what a loser he is and the therapist then simply tells him what he wants to hear like you're not a loser and yadda then first of all the therapist could as well be wrong the person could really be a loser and why should it make any difference what a freaking therapist thinks or says? Even if he says you're not a loser why should this change anything? He's not God, what does his opinion matter? Is suddenly everything different because a strange person which gets paid for listening to your stuff tells you that you're not a loser? I think this is somehow rather sad when you need to get affirmation from strangers. Wouldn't it be more effective to figure out a way to affirm yourself without depending on strangers which take money for it?
The fact that they take money for it already makes it harder to even believe them. If someone who doesn't take money and who is genuinely interested in helping said something to me then it would have more weight than if a therapist said something to me where I know that if I ran out of money he'd also not see me anymore and not give a crap about me and what happens to me.


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## Endorphin (Dec 4, 2011)

If you dont believe in something in the first place, it wont work period. Just like people cant get hypnotized by another person against their will. (except television)

haha google "conspiracy keanu" PLEASE do it!


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

Endorphin said:


> haha google "conspiracy keanu" PLEASE do it!


That made me lol.

But seriously, why should a therapist know what the truth is?
Why should his words have any weight? He basically only says what one wants to hear but that doesn't mean what he says is the truth.


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## Endorphin (Dec 4, 2011)

norad said:


> That made me lol.
> 
> But seriously, why should a therapist know what the truth is?
> Why should his words have any weight? He basically only says what one wants to hear but that doesn't mean what he says is the truth.


You are right. They do not KNOW anything for sure. Their job is to make you think positive thoughts. The only person who knows the truth is you


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## Gryffindor85 (Nov 7, 2011)

Which is why therapy probably wouldn't work for me unless it actually worked on me developing social skills.


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## Monroee (Aug 26, 2009)

What you're describing is exactly what my therapist does. He just tries to compliment me & tell me that my thoughts are wrong. I agree with you. Why should I believe someone that I "pay"? Obviously, for example, if he secretly thought that I "was" ugly, or something like that, he wouldn't admit it, because I would stop seeing him & "paying" him.

Now - but that's only a generic type of therapy. I've also just started with another therapist, actually a doctor (as if that makes it different), but he does psychoanalysis, & to me, this seems like a true type of therapy. He doesn't tell me what I want to hear or any such nonsense such as that. We are actually working on figuring out my subconscious. OoooOOooo. Mysterious & serious, yo.


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

Therapists are paid to try to cure or allieviate a person's mental suffering. They will tell you stuff that may or may not be true but if you can believe it then it seems to work. My advice: do self help first because you can achieve A LOT without the use of a therapist for social anxiety.


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

What if for example a person has low self-esteem because this person was bullied in school or never had friends then how shall this person simply change that without actually causing some real change? If this person still has no friends then how can she simply believe something different when in reality nothing changes? That would be like an obese person trying to believe that she's actually not obese.
Or maybe the therapist would try to make it look like the reason for not having friends was that this person had low self-esteem but this is like the hen and the egg. It makes no sense to say that the reason a person was bullied is because she thought the wrong thoughts. It's rather the other way around. The person developed certain thoughts based on how other people treated her but then you can't simply change your thoughts and expect to believe them if your environment still acts the same way.
Or imagine a professional golf player who always fails under pressure and thinks he's a loser. How can he simply change his belief about himself if he still fails under pressure? Then he'd only feel like a hypocrite. 
I doubt that having a therapist who reaffirms to him that he's not a failure would do much for him.

@ Monroee

Does psychoanalysis try to find the causes for certain problems which lie somewhere in the past? What happens if you should find the cause for something? Did you therapist explain to you what happens then?


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## SweetNSour82 (Dec 19, 2011)

norad said:


> Ever thought about this? What if therapy doesn't work and even the therapists are aware of this but since they're paid for it they don't care?
> 
> Imagine someone who has low self-esteem goes to a therapist and then complains about how unworthy he is and what a loser he is and the therapist then simply tells him what he wants to hear like you're not a loser and yadda then first of all the therapist could as well be wrong the person could really be a loser and why should it make any difference what a freaking therapist thinks or says? Even if he says you're not a loser why should this change anything? He's not God, what does his opinion matter? Is suddenly everything different because a strange person which gets paid for listening to your stuff tells you that you're not a loser? I think this is somehow rather sad when you need to get affirmation from strangers. Wouldn't it be more effective to figure out a way to affirm yourself without depending on strangers which take money for it?
> The fact that they take money for it already makes it harder to even believe them. If someone who doesn't take money and who is genuinely interested in helping said something to me then it would have more weight than if a therapist said something to me where I know that if I ran out of money he'd also not see me anymore and not give a crap about me and what happens to me.


This is why I stopped going.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Therapy isn't a joke. It really has helped me.


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## Toeter (Oct 29, 2011)

Therapy is fiction. Good for creating well paid jobs so at least its not totally useless


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

A man walks into therapy.

The therapy doesn't work and even the therapists are aware of this but since they're paid for it they don't care.

That's a classic!


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

norad said:


> What if for example a person has low self-esteem because this person was bullied in school or never had friends then how shall this person simply change that without actually causing some real change? If this person still has no friends then how can she simply believe something different when in reality nothing changes? That would be like an obese person trying to believe that she's actually not obese.
> Or maybe the therapist would try to make it look like the reason for not having friends was that this person had low self-esteem but this is like the hen and the egg. It makes no sense to say that the reason a person was bullied is because she thought the wrong thoughts. It's rather the other way around. The person developed certain thoughts based on how other people treated her but then you can't simply change your thoughts and expect to believe them if your environment still acts the same way.
> Or imagine a professional golf player who always fails under pressure and thinks he's a loser. How can he simply change his belief about himself if he still fails under pressure? Then he'd only feel like a hypocrite.
> I doubt that having a therapist who reaffirms to him that he's not a failure would do much for him.
> ...


I assume you are referring to cognitive behavioural therapy. For therapy to work, it will take more than a change in belief. Changing a belief about yourself and others (even if evidence is available to point out negative beliefs are infact true) will produce a change in mood but that is only half the problem. You, yourself will need to change your behavioural patterns. If you are being bullied, you might have to stand up to them or simply leave the environment. A change from "it's me" to "it's them" will help preserve self esteem, but toxic environments are still toxic and will eventually erode confidence in other people.

Therapy will show you errors in the way you think and solutions to them. If the problem is with the environment then solutions will be suggested but at the end of the day you are simply doing psychological gymnastics with your therapist.

Psychoanalysis tries to shed light on the cause of current problems and suggests these problems are caused by faulty interaction with parents, siblings or significant others or some kind of psychic trauma from the past. For example, losing a teddy bear as a child might have caused distress at the time. Might not seem like a big deal now but could be influencing certain emotional reactions as an adult. The therapist will try to explain the reason for the things that occured so as to cause an emotional understanding of the event and to see it in a different light. Cure rate for borderline personality disorder is around 30% for psychoanalysis whereas with schema therpay it is around 70%.


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## YUMYUMYUMYUMYUM (Dec 30, 2011)

My doctor has arranged for me to receive conselling sessions
Theyre free for me because i live in the UK; i probably wouldnt bother otherwise, however was offered a description of what I should expect to get oout of the sessions (during an 'assessment' meeting), & some of it sounded as though it could be useful
The counsellor explained that he would help me to attempt to identify the reasons underlying my illness, & offer a variety of ways in which I might deal with instances of anxiety...
Only time will tell whether or not counselling sessions prove useful in my case; I half expect that I will spend the durations of each session humoring a talentless hippie


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## Ambitious (Apr 17, 2011)

"the patient knows neither self nor other"

http://www.selfpsychologypsychoanalysis.org/mollon.shtml


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## nSpace (Feb 18, 2011)

Most therapists openly admit that the change has to come from within you. I view therapists more as advice givers in life, those who can point you in the right direction. If you are going to a therapist to have him/her change your life for you then you missed the point entirely. Oh yeah and money is a fact of life. They need to eat, have shelter/clothing etc... Their time is valuable as they ARE generally more knowledgeable than you are in your disorder. Don't let the fact that we all need money to survive blind you to the reality that therapy is meant more to help the patient then to serve the therapist. I have had one therapist openly admit that I do not really need to see her anymore, and that I have made vast improvements. This is ofcourse not something I believe just because she said so. It is something I feel aswell. Ofcourse their are bad therapists out there.. just like there are bad (insert any jobs) out there. Cynicism will close your mind to positive change.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

CBT or GTFO. 

Most therapy is nonsense. Especially when they want to analyse your dreams. CBT is the only empirically based therapy...


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## trendyfool (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm in CBT. Without my therapist I might have stopped cutting, and probably wouldn't be going to school or leaving my house much. He has made me not just work on changing my beliefs but also on changing my circumstances and way of life. I still have quite a ways to go but CBT and my therapist's support has been crucial in getting me to where I am today and I will always be grateful to him for that. CBT changed my life.


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## peril (Jan 7, 2012)

Therapy has helped me understand the things I'm going through. Although, having someone (other than me) talk about makes it more real. My therapist also makes me accountable for things that I have to do to change my life and although she's not forcing me, I don't want to disappoint her so I try my best to actually do something. I'm a procrastinator so this takes huge effort from me but I know that I have to do it...for me.


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## foszae (Jan 8, 2012)

the reason therapy works is that it gives you your own chance to explore your behaviours and think of ways to act differently. the therapist doesn't provide answers so much as an atmosphere to explore and compare what's going on for you. if you don't feel comfortable sharing, or you're not interested in changing your way of doing things, therapy isn't going to bring you through quite the same way. they're not miracle workers, and are only there to guide you on your individual struggle. of all the things you can change, the work is still realizing, talking about issues and trying to change the way you do things on your own end.


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## tanya elizabeth (Dec 14, 2011)

I'll answer your question with another question... why do believe a doctor when they tell you you're sick? I mean, by your logic, they're just paid to tell you you're sick, after all.

Therapists are trained to help you to think about things differently (or at least that is in the case of CBT). I find it good to have an outsiders perspective on how you are feeling and one that actively knows how to help you fix it.


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## wootmehver (Oct 18, 2007)

If someone is fascinated by the workings of the mind and embarks on a lifelong in-depth study of it and becomes properly credentialed and wants to use their talents, skills and abilities to dedicate their life to helping others make their minds work better they should be financially rewarded for it, just as any skilled professional in any other field.


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## Mindful Eyes (Dec 16, 2011)

jonny neurotic said:


> CBT or GTFO.
> 
> Most therapy is nonsense. Especially when they want to analyse your dreams. CBT is the only empirically based therapy...


Well CBT isn't the only empirically supported treatment. In fact, the Society of Clinical Psychology has made a list of Empirically Support Treatments, which you can click here.

You will notice that Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, Emotion-Focused Therapy, Interpersonal Therapy are evidence-based treatments for certain diagnoses.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

joinmartin said:


> It's nonsense because you say it is is it? CBT is one approach to therapy which works with some people and not with other people. Mostly because people are not machines.
> 
> Therapy is not a joke and we are not paid in some conspiracy to keep that from clients.


Which particular brand do you sell?


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## Cupcakes (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm digging here a thread with almost 3 months old lol

Anyway, sometimes I have the same thoughts about my therapeutic process.
I pay quite a lot for the sessions, psychoanalysis, let's say... half of my earnings go directly to there - yeah sounds crazy!

I don't even want to think what many other things I could do with that money, because I need support so badly! I have suicidal thoughts and I surely don't want to choose that path anymore, don't even want to feel like doing it again.

If it works or not, I'm trying to keep in mind that I was feeling pretty much worse before, without any support or someone to hear me.

But I can relate yes, those thoughts of "this is a joke, it's never going to work" they come up once in a while.

I have a psychologist in my family, she tells me that the therapeutic process is not directly about what the therapist says. In fact that doesn't matter that much, it's secondary.
The "real deal" about it is recreating a relationship with your therapist, like a child to a mother or father - could we call it love, trust and care?
Reconstructing something that went wrong in your life - past relationships through someone who is there for you and not judging. It's the empathy and trust you develop between you and the therapist that actually takes you anywhere.

This actually only works if you like the professional who's guiding you and you feel empathy.
It doens't matter if he/she's the best known professional around. If you don't like her/him, it simply won't do anything for yourself.

I like my psychoanalyst, I love the way she is so direct and tells me the truth no matter how it can hurt, because she knows that I can handle it, or better, I need to know it. Like, when I fully complain about other people attitudes and then she tells me "aren't you harsh for them too? think of it." 
I still have trust issues with her, which I know that are my issues, not hers - i have it with everyone.
I wish I could tell her someday how I feel about this.


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## jg43i9jghy0t4555 (Jul 31, 2011)

foszae said:


> the reason therapy works is that it gives you your own chance to explore your behaviours and think of ways to act differently. the therapist doesn't provide answers so much as an atmosphere to explore and compare what's going on for you. if you don't feel comfortable sharing, or you're not interested in changing your way of doing things, therapy isn't going to bring you through quite the same way. they're not miracle workers, and are only there to guide you on your individual struggle. of all the things you can change, the work is still realizing, talking about issues and trying to change the way you do things on your own end.


yeah.

Therapy isn't always going to work, it's about giving you the tools to change yourself.. and if you aren't ready for that, it means a lot of work.. which will cost a lot of money because it's more therapy over time.

It would be something to worry about if everyone who went to therapy wasn't able to get better. But it's not that simple. People do get better.

Also, 1) it's best to try it first before you begin to be cynical about it, and 2) seeing the more negative responses on a forum like this, or another.. it might be that most people who have fixed their problem are all somewhere else and you're being left to construct a negatively biased opinion.

So anyway, at least try the therapy that's been proven to work.. CBT for example. These things have real costs if someone needs to be trained in a profession and then needs to spend lots of 1-hour sessions with the patient.. unfortunately.



Cupcakes said:


> I like my psychoanalyst, I love the way she is so direct and tells me the truth no matter how it can hurt, because she knows that I can handle it, or better, I need to know it. Like, when I fully complain about other people attitudes and then she tells me "aren't you harsh for them too? think of it."
> I still have trust issues with her, which I know that are my issues, not hers - i have it with everyone.
> I wish I could tell her someday how I feel about this.


Me too I have that :/

I even find myself really not appreciating the people that are there to support me. And I'm not working or paying either. I really wish I didn't have to see my support worker twice a week, but it's making me much better. Slowly.. but it works. I have a huge respect for these people even though at the same time I wish I didn't have to face them.

Well... it's difficult still, after almost 2 years. I still don't even say goodbye / thank you to these people, I worry that I won't ever get a chance to. :/ But I'm getting better and my support worker has told me, that's why he does his job. <3


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## CipherAgent (Feb 22, 2012)

It depends on the type of therapy. I suggest cognitive behavioural theory for Social Anxiety types.


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## HackerZC (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm starting to wonder this myself. 
It seems like whenever I say something negative about myself my therapist says the opposite... and for some things that HAS helped. There are some things however that it doesn't help with at all. 
Honestly it seems like the only reason to go anymore is to vent. I even apologize for dumping all my crap on him (even if he's getting paid to listen). 
But none of it really seems to help anymore. Venting doesn't do much for me anymore. I don't really take away anything useful from the sessions. It's starting to seem more and more like a money sink. 
In fact, lately it's even CAUSED me more grief than anything else. So I really am starting to question the reasons why I go anymore.


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

Therapy is so fake and stupid imo. How is sitting in a room talking to some uptight idiot who doesn't give a **** about me supposed to help? You're just dollar signs to them really, they tell you what you want to hear so you keep coming back. It's bull****.


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## IllusionOfHappiness (Sep 6, 2007)

Heh, that's why I saw a free one.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

If you go in thinking it won't work, then there's a good chance it probably won't. That is why SA is such a killer. Self-fulfilling prophesies abound.


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## elmandelafoto (Jan 28, 2012)

listen... therapy isn't a joke.... if you doctor or therapist is an ignorant then thats a different story, but there are a few cures to SOCIAL ANXIETY out there that have been proven to be effective, so you cant say something that has been tested and studied to give RESULTS is a joke...

depends on what you are doing..... i tried to cure social anxiety in the wrong way for years... and it was painfull, but you know what, im hungry, and driven and i don't want to live like this for the rest of my life, so i kept searching and finally bumped into CBT... if you say CBT is a joke, then your either talking without knowing, or have a serious IQ problem my friend...... (not to be rude, but your pessimism doesn't help the other members of this forum that come here to get SOLUTIONS, positivity, and that push that we need to overcome this SA) 

we wren't born with SA, i personally had friends, and a social life, and was comfortable around people.. i developed SA because i surrendered to my negative irrational thoughts, and started giving them more and more power by avoiding people... eventually i was very uneasy around everybody and super nervous..

but guess what? CBT is just forcing yourself to THINK and BEHAVE in the opposite manner that you did when you developed SA... when you were developing SA you where negative and avoiding.. when you do CBT you get positive, cut down the negativity, and tell yourself statements that eventually condition your brain to THINK and FEEL different...

its very rational, very scientific and very logical and has proven to work in thousands of cases.... so if i were you i would do my research instead of complaining about how much you hate your life and acting like it ALWAYS will have to be that way... you can stay like that if you want, its your life, but i personally choose to see the therapyt that works, use it, and cure myself completely... just to let you know, i'm around 75% cured of sa, i am a total different person now, i wouldn't leave my house in the past, wouldn't have a social life, and now im alwayz active, and barely in my mind anymore in social settings, i have SEEN the progress, i have SEEN the changes and my mental patterns, chemistry and habbits changing from very nervous and irrational... to more confident, rational, comfortable and att ease, and im loving it..... but i guess i'd never would have expierenced these changes, if i had the attitude "what if this therapy, is a joke"


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## Shrinking Violet (Oct 11, 2010)

I've been skeptical of therapy myself, simply because I don't think anyone has all the answers. While some therapists might be very healthy and advanced, I am sure there are many that are just in it for the money. If I had the financial ability to see a counsellor regularly, I might try it, but I don't think it's the solution to all problems.

Instead of seeking counselling over the past several years, I tried to learn about the roots of anxiety myself, and I think I have a lot of insights now. I see SA as an essentially value-based problem. Everyone has scripts or values that they maintain and that guide decisions in their lives. Often, you don't even recognize that you are making these decisions or having certain thoughts because they are automatic. I suppose that any therapy that helps you access this subconscious activity would be useful, but you can do it on your own as well.


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

Do I think therapy, a profession people spend years learning in school and devote their lives to, a profession that has a clinically proven track record, a profession so nuanced and varying that it can hardly be typified into simply "telling people what they wants to hear," a profession that has the support of thousands of hard working academics is a joke? 

No.


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

wxolue said:


> Do I think therapy, a profession people spend years learning in school and devote their lives to, a profession that has a clinically proven track record, a profession so nuanced and varying that it can hardly be typified into simply "telling people what they wants to hear," a profession that has the support of thousands of hard working academics is a joke?
> 
> No.


What is a therapist supposed to tell me that I don't already know?


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

GD8 said:


> What is a therapist supposed to tell me that I don't already know?


I'm not a therapist, so I don't know specifically. However, they don't go to college for 8-12 long years just to lie around and dream about fking people over once they get their degree.


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## guss (Feb 28, 2012)

I don


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

wxolue said:


> I'm not a therapist, so I don't know specifically. However, they don't go to college for 8-12 long years just to lie around and dream about fking people over once they get their degree.


Lawyers go to school for about that long (probably a little less) and all they do is lie and **** people over so what's the difference?

Way I see it therapists are pretty much the same thing as "psychics". You just pay them to tell you **** you want to hear.


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

GD8 said:


> Lawyers go to school for about that long (probably a little less) and all they do is lie and **** people over so what's the difference?
> 
> Way I see it therapists are pretty much the same thing as "psychics". You just pay them to tell you **** you want to hear.


CBT is clinically successful in a majority of those who are treated with it. Millions upon millions of people have been helped by this therapy, and thats just one of many that are efficacious. However, not all therapists are created equal. If you find that yours isn't helpful after a few sessions, I suggest moving on to another one.

In the end, lawyers go to school to provide a service to people: the interpretation of the law. They try to perform this service to the best of their ability. Unfortunately, and UNLIKE psychotherapy, being a lawyer is often a zero sum game. There's always a winner and a loser, which explains the negative connotation people associate with lawyers.

Psychotherapy on the other hand, when done correctly, can be a win win situation. If therapists really did just tell us what we want to hear, and it didn't work, I would stop seeing them after a few sessions. If all therapists did this, they would go out of business pretty fast. On the other hand, if they really did commit 8-12 years of their life to the study of mental illness to actually help people (although I guess you think they did this just to learn how to con some poor suckers out of money), success with therapy would also lead to more money, as the people who benefited from the therapy would spread the word to friends and family, and would likely keep going to keep up with the therapy that's working for them.

You don't need to go to school for 8 years just to learn how to tell people what they want to hear. You can do that in a few hours. Also, I'm pretty sure that millions upon millions of people across the globe aren't capable of keeping a secret that their whole profession is actually just a load of crap. There would be at least a few psychologists coming out to say "guess what! we made psychology up lololololol." Even that wouldn't work since you still can't explain why some therapies have helped so many people. If therapists are really just doing it for the money, why don't they work at a job that's more lucrative? At best you can live comfortably as a therapist, and at worst you make next to nothing. There's no promise of fantastic wealth.

The argument that therapy is a joke falls flat on many levels. Spreading nonsensical conspiracy theories about psychotherapy may only drive people away from seeking treatment, which on all accounts is a worse choice than getting help. Psychotherapy may not have worked for you in the past, but thats no reason to spread lies about an honorable profession devoted towards helping people. There are other evils in this world that deserve censure much more than a medical profession.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

GD8 said:


> What is a therapist supposed to tell me that I don't already know?


A lot. And it's not just that, it's having a support system and knowing you're strong enough to take that first step towards improving, amongst other things.


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## JamesC (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi guys,

Thought I'd pipe in with my opinion. Just joined the forum.

I overcame SA many years ago now but have only just got my head around what it was and how I did it.

I feel a lot of your comments about therapy is a waste of time. I personally went through therapy myself at some point in my journey and I found it both paradoxically helpful but completely unhelpful in a way.

Ultimately you are sitting in a room with a stranger to discuss your feelings, sometimes these are feelings that you are ashamed/embarassed about and are completely unable to tell your family or friends about. I think the benefit with therapy is this - non-judgemental space to express your feelings.

On the other hand it feels completely unhelpful because you aren't actually "going anywhere". In my experience and personal opinion (I'm not a therapist please be aware) a good therapist doesn't encourage the patient that they can "fix them".

Many patient's attend therapy feeling that the therapist can make all their problems go away but the reality is they can't nor should they.

Good therapy is just allowing the patient to realise that perhaps their beliefs about a certain situation might possible to open to interpretation - essentially injecting an element of doubt into otherwise black/white scenarios. CBT does this well. I never have had CBT formally but my little brother is, and it was certainly a key element in me overcoming my social anxiety (self administered).

Ultimately there is no black or white answer as to whether therapy is good or bad but I don't think you can really comment unless you try it. Remember we are dealing with the mind and that is completely subjective. Social anxiety is about PERCEPTION and if someone else percieves it is helping them then it will help them.

James


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> Lawyers go to school for about that long (probably a little less) and all they do is lie and **** people over so what's the difference?
> 
> Way I see it therapists are pretty much the same thing as "psychics". You just pay them to tell you **** you want to hear.


Well that's great. Why don't you try to find a therapist who will tell *YOU* what *you* want to hear? I don't think you will find one that easily because you come across as a rather negativistic person and any therapist worth their salt would probably tell you stuff you'd rather not hear.

What's the difference between a lawyer and a therapist? You tell me. And while you are at it tell me what the difference is between a lawyer and a psychic. I ask *YOU *to tell *ME* because I think you know better than to ask such silly questions and I also think it would do you good to think it through a bit...


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

jonny neurotic said:


> Well that's great. Why don't you try to find a therapist who will tell *YOU* what *you* want to hear? I don't think you will find one that easily because you come across as a rather negativistic person and any therapist worth their salt would probably tell you stuff you'd rather not hear.
> 
> What's the difference between a lawyer and a therapist? You tell me. And while you are at it tell me what the difference is between a lawyer and a psychic. I ask *YOU *to tell *ME* because I think you know better than to ask such silly questions and I also think it would do you good to think it through a bit...


Lol I'm not negative, I just think therapy is bull**** and there's nothing they could possibly tell me that's going to make me have some major epiphany. I have friends as my support system, I don't need to talk to some stranger and act like he actually gives a **** about anything I'm saying.

I didn't ask what the difference between a lawyer and a therapist is either, they're two totally different professions but lawyers, "psychics", and therapists are alike in that they all get paid to lie to people.

Dunno why you're getting so mad anyway, calm your tits bro


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> Lol I'm not negative, I just think therapy is bull**** and there's nothing they could possibly tell me that's going to make me have some major epiphany. I have friends as my support system, I don't need to talk to some stranger and act like he actually gives a **** about anything I'm saying.
> 
> I didn't ask what the difference between a lawyer and a therapist is either, they're two totally different professions but lawyers, "psychics", and therapists are alike in that they all get paid to lie to people.
> 
> Dunno why you're getting so mad anyway, calm your tits bro


Don't tell me to calm my tits and don't call m bro. You obviously do not understand the point of therapy and that is fine, just don't try to put other people off. You are clearly negativistic because of the things you write. That's negativistic not negaitve. Look the term up, you may learn something about yourself...


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> ... calm your tits bro


*Negativism* [ˈnɛgətɪvˌɪzəm]_n_*

1.* a tendency to be or a state of being unconstructively critical.


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## TigerRifle1 (Jan 25, 2012)

GD8 said:


> Lol I'm not negative, I just think therapy is bull**** and there's nothing they could possibly tell me that's going to make me have some major epiphany. I have friends as my support system, I don't need to talk to some stranger and act like he actually gives a **** about anything I'm saying.
> 
> I didn't ask what the difference between a lawyer and a therapist is either, they're two totally different professions but lawyers, "psychics", and therapists are alike in that they all get paid to lie to people.
> 
> Dunno why you're getting so mad anyway, calm your tits bro


What happens when your friends aren't around anymore, in say 4 or 5 years.


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

jonny neurotic said:


> Don't tell me to calm my tits and don't call m bro. You obviously do not understand the point of therapy and that is fine, just don't try to put other people off. You are clearly negativistic because of the things you write. That's negativistic not negaitve. Look the term up, you may learn something about yourself...


I'm not trying to turn people away from getting help. The OP asked what if therapy is a joke and in my opinion it IS a joke. What's wrong with that? Maybe don't read a thread titled "what if therapy is basically a joke?" if you don't want to see people talking **** about therapy.



TigerRifle1 said:


> What happens when your friends aren't around anymore, in say 4 or 5 years.


they've been around most of my life so I don't see them going anywhere any time soon


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## Quinn the Eskimo (Jan 22, 2012)

I believe therapy can help in some cases

is it basically a joke? in my opinion, yeah pretty much, therapists are not going to give you the full picture, and *can not* give you the full picture


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

You can call therapy inefficacious. You can even call it pseudo science. Calling therapy a joke however is insulting to the hundreds of thousands of medical professionals out there that are legitimately concerned with the well-being of their patients. Therapy is a terrible way to make money, if that's the only thing you're interested in.


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## JamesC (Feb 28, 2012)

GD8 said:


> I'm not trying to turn people away from getting help. The OP asked what if therapy is a joke and in my opinion it IS a joke. What's wrong with that? Maybe don't read a thread titled "what if therapy is basically a joke?" if you don't want to see people talking **** about therapy.
> 
> they've been around most of my life so I don't see them going anywhere any time soon


What therapy are you talking about here? All therapy or just certain types?


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## Minipurz (Aug 25, 2009)

GD8 said:


> Therapy is so fake and stupid imo. How is sitting in a room talking to some uptight idiot who doesn't give a **** about me supposed to help? You're just dollar signs to them really, they tell you what you want to hear so you keep coming back. It's bull****.


Do you have any experience with any kind of therapy at all ?

Ive been in group cbt therapy, and its like 7/8 patients who gained alot out of the sessions and the methods we've learned.

The therapists have been very helpfull in identifying negative thoughts and making new alternative thoughts.

At no moment have we sat and been told what we want to hear, lol, more like the opposite, trying to motivate / push us to do exposure therapy and socialise.

And at no moment have I thought they dont give a ****. :no

Sounds like you are talkin **** about stuff you dont know **** about tbh.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> I'm not trying to turn people away from getting help. The OP asked what if therapy is a joke and in my opinion it IS a joke. What's wrong with that? Maybe don't read a thread titled "what if therapy is basically a joke?" if you don't want to see people talking **** about therapy.


What experience do you have of the theraputic process? You clearly know nothing of it and you comments are in no way helpful to anyone. If you had a good reason not to like it then that would be acceptable but you are just BSing. You can't even decide on an appropriate analogy. Are therapists like lawyers or psychics? What are you even talking about? The OP asks a reasonable question and, I imagine, was looking for something approaching an intelligent discussion on the matter and the best you can offer is some half baked aspersion based on nothing other than the first thing that popped into your head. You are "dissing" therapists as a whole and so, in turn, I am "dissing" you_(only I have more panache and are more disposed toward writing something of consequence)._


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> ...in my opinion it IS a joke. What's wrong with that?


Answer these posts while maintaining this attitude...



trendyfool said:


> I'm in CBT. Without my therapist I might have stopped cutting, and probably wouldn't be going to school or leaving my house much. He has made me not just work on changing my beliefs but also on changing my circumstances and way of life. I still have quite a ways to go but CBT and my therapist's support has been crucial in getting me to where I am today and I will always be grateful to him for that. CBT changed my life.





peril said:


> Therapy has helped me understand the things I'm going through. Although, having someone (other than me) talk about makes it more real. My therapist also makes me accountable for things that I have to do to change my life and although she's not forcing me, I don't want to disappoint her so I try my best to actually do something. I'm a procrastinator so this takes huge effort from me but I know that I have to do it...for me.


____________________________________________________________________________________________



GD8 said:


> What is a therapist supposed to tell me that I don't already know?


I can think of a few things you could be told about yourself but my post would be deleted...


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Deleted


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

I think those who had success with therapy were simply lucky and found a good therapist but overall I cannot take psychotherapy seriously or maybe I simply always came across therapists who sucked. But what already pisses me off is the underlying premise that when you're depressed or have a problem you're not clever enough to solve it and a therapist can always help you deal with it. This would mean there could never be such a thing as a depressed therapist how ridiculous is this? I am sure therapists are as messed up as ordinary people they simply sit in their chairs and act like they got it all figured out. I could do the same. Playing a smartass and giving smart advice isn't that hard. Putting it into practice and making it work is hard.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

You will never improve as long as the whole basis of your thinking is negative. You could have the best therapist in the world but end up construing things negatively.


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## norad (Oct 24, 2011)

How am I supposed to stop thinking negative when all therapists I come across suck? Kinda hard to think positive when nothing positive happens.


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## rubyruby (Jun 17, 2009)

Some people need medication along with therapy. sometimes when you are on medication you are less irritable and sort of open to looking at things from another perspective.


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

Minipurz said:


> Do you have any experience with any kind of therapy at all ?
> 
> Ive been in group cbt therapy, and its like 7/8 patients who gained alot out of the sessions and the methods we've learned.
> 
> ...


I'm talking about my experiences with therapy, not yours. I'm not saying therapy CAN'T have results but I *personally *think it's a joke and it hasn't done anything for me in the past. I have no experiences with CBT therapy either so I won't comment on it.



jonny neurotic said:


> What experience do you have of the theraputic process? You clearly know nothing of it and you comments are in no way helpful to anyone. If you had a good reason not to like it then that would be acceptable but you are just BSing. You can't even decide on an appropriate analogy. Are therapists like lawyers or psychics? What are you even talking about? The OP asks a reasonable question and, I imagine, was looking for something approaching an intelligent discussion on the matter and the best you can offer is some half baked aspersion based on nothing other than the first thing that popped into your head. You are "dissing" therapists as a whole and so, in turn, I am "dissing" you_(only I have more panache and are more disposed toward writing something of consequence)._


Why do you even care so much? I've tried therapy before and it did nothing for me whatsoever, that's reason enough imo so get off my dick. I could care less about your experiences with it, if it actually worked for you then you wouldn't be on this site.

No one says dissing anymore by the way, is this 2004 or some ****?



jonny neurotic said:


> I can think of a few things you could be told about yourself but my post would be deleted...


So PM it to me. I'd really love to hear what you have to say about me.


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## Pam (Feb 14, 2009)

norad said:


> I think those who had success with therapy were simply lucky and found a good therapist but overall I cannot take psychotherapy seriously or maybe I simply always came across therapists who sucked. But what already pisses me off is the underlying premise that when you're depressed or have a problem you're not clever enough to solve it and a therapist can always help you deal with it. This would mean there could never be such a thing as a depressed therapist how ridiculous is this? I am sure therapists are as messed up as ordinary people they simply sit in their chairs and act like they got it all figured out. I could do the same. Playing a smartass and giving smart advice isn't that hard. Putting it into practice and making it work is hard.


I have also come across several who seem to have no idea what they are doing, including breaking rules and being unprofessional, nevermind not understanding me (and I'm really good at explaining myself.)

But if you provoke, you have to expect (and I assume you actually want) a response. And yeah, it'll probably be negative! Are you familiar with transference and counter-transference? Sometimes I have seen that negative transference will bring on a negative, inappropriate, or unempathic response from a therapist. This will inevitably happen because they aren't perfect, BUT you just HOPE that they are professional enough, and sensitive enough, and smart enough to be able to straighten this out with you. A lot of them are not self-aware enough to even know themselves what has really happened so they can work on repairing it with you. THAT is something I've been lacking with mine. Sometimes our standards are very high for them and they will one day mess up. I have a hard time myself forgiving them, but it really should be the goal, to mend the break and continue on.

If you feel the need to provoke etc, I would think they would ask you questions about why and what you really feel, how this is related to your past, etc, and get you to feel your feelings rather than act them out. But if you are seeing someone who is not used to being in depth like that, then they won't be able or willing to do that (I'm thinking of CBT therapists are not too keen on doing this) and it will just end up being a negative experience for you of retaliation on their part. A never-ending argument....

Just my opinion based on my education, stuff I've read on my own, and experiences as a patient. :|


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

Deleted


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> I'm talking about my experiences with therapy, not yours. I'm not saying therapy CAN'T have results but I *personally *think it's a joke and it hasn't done anything for me in the past. I have no experiences with CBT therapy either so I won't comment on it.
> 
> Why do you even care so much? I've tried therapy before and it did nothing for me whatsoever, that's reason enough imo so get off my dick. I could care less about your experiences with it, if it actually worked for you then you wouldn't be on this site.


 You did not say_ "In my experience..."_ you made a comment about "therapy" as a whole. Now you tell me you've been to therapy, I would be inclined to ask you what that actually entailed. As it stands I have not been to a formal therapy session in my life but I have read a lot about it and I have employed the principles of CBT, as I understand them, to good effect. The reason I am here in the first place is because I have a condition that does not respond well to therapy because it is genetic. In fact I have two, and only by trying to better understand myself through a theraputic process_(of sorts)_ was I able to reach a point where I knew that there was something that couldn't be dealt with in this way, and that prompted further research that ultimately lead to my realising that I needed a certain kind of medication.



> No one says dissing anymore by the way, is this 2004 or some ****?


I am sure phrases like these go in and out of fashion in different places through cycles of varying frequency. Perhaps in your small part of the world it is currently out of fashion but my little cousin and here friends use it now a days, and I am sure there are those who would have thought it _passé_ back in 2004 or whenever people in your area used it.

Tell me, what word* do* people from your area now use in that context? I take an interest in these things...



> So PM it to me. I'd really love to hear what you have to say about me.


Oh, really?

*Pfft!*


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

GD8 said:


> I have no experiences with CBT therapy either so I won't comment on it.


I don't think someone who hasn't tried the most widely used and easily the most efficacious therapy is in a position to deride and debase the profession as a whole.


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

jonny neurotic said:


> You did not say_ "In my experience..."_ you made a comment about "therapy" as a whole. Now you tell me you've been to therapy, I would be inclined to ask you what that actually entailed. As it stands I have not been to a formal therapy session in my life but I have read a lot about it and I have employed the principles of CBT, as I understand them, to good effect. The reason I am here in the first place is because I have a condition that does not respond well to therapy because it is genetic. In fact I have two, and only by trying to better understand myself through a theraputic process_(of sorts)_ was I able to reach a point where I knew that there was something that couldn't be dealt with in this way, and that prompted further research that ultimately lead to my realising that I needed a certain kind of medication.


Lol you've never even BEEN to therapy and you're on my dick about how great it is? Why am I wasting my time with you again?



jonny neurotic said:


> I am sure phrases like these go in and out of fashion in different places through cycles of varying frequency. Perhaps in your small part of the world it is currently out of fashion but my little cousin and here friends use it now a days, and I am sure there are those who would have thought it _passé_ back in 2004 or whenever people in your area used it.
> 
> Tell me, what word* do* people from your area now use in that context? I take an interest in these things...


Is it still 2004 in scotland?


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## elmandelafoto (Jan 28, 2012)

you guys are acting really whack... its annoying to listening to your *****ing, because you don't even understand the issue, or the cure, yet you have no guilt in complainging about finding no cure and telling people your problem has no solution..... 


you guys.. COGNITIVE...BEHAVIOURAL...THERAPY......

COGNITIVE = MIND
BEHAVIOURAL = EXPOSURE AND ACTION IN THE SOCIAL WORLD

= 

THE CURE

the cognitive part trains your mind to stop thinking negatively and irrationally about yourself..... eventually, and after some EFFORT, yes EFFORT, not *****ing on a forum, you change your thought processes and thinking patterns..... just like learning a sport, you need practice and sacrifice, but over time its easy and you can see results... after your thougts are changed... you change the way you feel... you are more rational.. confident, relaxed, and calmed.....


then comes the BEHAVIOURAL PART... you expose yourself, step out of the comfort zone, push yourself a little bit, a little extra each day, talk longer, say hi more, make eye contact, call friends, hang out, etc... you combine some cognitive strategies like saying statements like "talking to people use to be very scary for me, but with time i have realized im not as bad as i thought and that i can do a pretty good job" + exposing yourself to the situation results in changing your beliefs about it... if your mind believed all the NEGATIVE IRRATIONAL CRAP, it can sure as heck believe this rational truth your feeding it and together with your sweat, you will change the way you feel about yourself, think about yourself, and act in social situations, THEY WILL GET LESS SCARY, THEY WILL GET EASIER, AND THEY WILL BE EASY TO MANAGE, if you get up out of your arse and DO the EXERCISES...

GOING TO A THERAPIST THAT TELLS YOU YOU ARE PERFECT, AND AMAZING, WILL NOT HELP.......... its like watching lebron james in a basketball game and wanting to improve by just watching him....... 

do the wrong therapy, and you will stay the same, just a day older and more frustrated...

attack the issue with the right therapy, and you will get better...


TRUE STORY...EVERYWORD... NOW SNAP OUT OF THE DEPRRESING STATE.....


OK.. THANKS... BYE!!!!


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

GD8 said:


> Lol you've never even BEEN to therapy and you're on my dick about how great it is? Why am I wasting my time with you again?


My god. Will you stop talking about your genitals. You still haven't told me what "therapy" you have been to, and no, I haven't been in therapy but I do educate myself on things before forming an opinion of them. That way when I say something there is substance to it. You have yet to qualify either of the analogies you drew in your first post on the matter and you have yet to tell me on what you base your disdain for therapy as a whole. Your assertion that a therapist is there to tell you what you want to hear does not correspond to any therapeutic process that I am familiar with. So tell me; what *are* you talking about?



> Is it still 2004 in scotland?


Great attempt, but I did say "area" not "country" and your failure to grasp the concept that these things do go in and out of fashion over the decades fails to impress. Whether you and your contemporaries, in the particular part of the country in which you live, consider it to be "old" or not, you don't strike me as being particularly disposed to bounds of originality, so I don't doubt that many of the terms you currently use are consider out of date by people in other parts of the country.

The reason I used such a term is because I realised that I was dealing with someone of a lower level of literacy than myself, as is my little cousin from whom I borrowed it.


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

GD8 said:


> Why do you even care so much? I've tried therapy before and it did nothing for me whatsoever, that's reason enough imo so get off my dick. I could care less about your experiences with it, if it actually worked for you then you wouldn't be on this site.


You're bringing others down with your excessively negative attitude. Therapy does work for many people, but it won't because you refuse to change your attitude. When you want to get better it will probably work. Otherwise right now you're just being a jerk.


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## GD8 (May 7, 2011)

jonny neurotic said:


> My god. Will you stop talking about your genitals. You still haven't told me what "therapy" you have been to, and no, I haven't been in therapy but I do educate myself on things before forming an opinion of them. That way when I say something there is substance to it. You have yet to qualify either of the analogies you drew in your first post on the matter and you have yet to tell me on what you base your disdain for therapy as a whole. Your assertion that a therapist is there to tell you what you want to hear does not correspond to any therapeutic process that I am familiar with. So tell me; what *are* you talking about?
> 
> Great attempt, but I did say "area" not "country" and your failure to grasp the concept that these things do go in and out of fashion over the decades fails to impress. Whether you and your contemporaries, in the particular part of the country in which you live, consider it to be "old" or not, you don't strike me as being particularly disposed to bounds of originality, so I don't doubt that many of the terms you currently use are consider out of date by people in other parts of the country.
> 
> The reason I used such a term is because I realised that I was dealing with someone of a lower level of literacy than myself, as is my little cousin from whom I borrowed it.


I honestly don't give two ****s about this "conversation" so I'm done now. You didn't win though, I'm just too lazy to type up a response so take that as you will.



srschirm said:


> You're bringing others down with your excessively negative attitude. Therapy does work for many people, but it won't because you refuse to change your attitude. When you want to get better it will probably work. Otherwise right now you're just being a jerk.


I don't get why you people are so ****ing obsessed with defending therapy. The thread title is "what if therapy is basically a joke?" and in *MY* opinion (which I'm entitled to) is that therapy is a joke. My experiences with therapy sucked, was a complete waste of my time. Does that mean I'm saying therapy won't work for you? No, so calm your tits and stop blowing **** out of proportion.


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## Minipurz (Aug 25, 2009)

lol, claiming that therapy as a whole is bogus because you got negative experience with 1 form, is like if one was experiencing negative effects / no positive effects from some medicine and then going ":mum omg omg medicin is a joke, its a fraud, it costs money and it didnt help me, ergo its a fraud:mum "


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## RoflSaurus (Feb 25, 2012)

Reading this massive unnecessary arguement has really upset me. In the end you ALL have to realize that these are JUST opinions! Everyone has their own views on things and what might have worked wonders for some may have driven others into the ground. People came to this thread to respond to the OP -based solely- on their OPINION. People are diverse in their thoughts and this will never change.


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## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

RoflSaurus said:


> Reading this massive unnecessary arguement has really upset me. In the end you ALL have to realize that these are JUST opinions! Everyone has their own views on things and what might have worked wonders for some may have driven others into the ground. People came to this thread to respond to the OP -based solely- on their OPINION. People are diverse in their thoughts and this will never change.


Yes, but some opinions are based on knowledge and understanding and some are just brain farts. I don't think it was helpful for him to make the comment he did so I questioned it. What's wrong with that? I think though it does show how much both of us need therapy. ಠ‿ಠ

There are some types of therapy that are based on empiricism but even with those if the therapist is crap then the attempt may be for nothing. I would be interested to know what kind of therapy others have been through and what their experiences were but writing the things GD8 wrote is just crass and does not contribute at all to the debate. I think the OP asked an important question and was not prompting a b:tching session_(I could be wrong)._

I don't regard counseling as therapy and I don't think it is good for much except talking about something that you would normally talk about with a family member or close friend. I think that counseling is severely limited in it's scope and offers very little in the way of a structured therapeutic process. CBT appeals to me because the therapist is simply a teacher and the work must be done my the client. It is about growing and developing as a person in a way that is acceptable to the individual rather than having someone behind a desk analysing your dreams and telling you that you want to have sex with your own mother...


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