# On looks



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

_We want to show you guys that trivial things like looks, money and status aren't necessary in order to attract a girl._

**Edit* Video removed*


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Well, just think about all those guys who are good looking and still can't get a girlfriend. Obviously, there is much more than looks that are important. But I won't get into it right now.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)

... says the good looking guy that attracts lots of girls :roll


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

arnie said:


> ... says the good looking guy that attracts lots of girls :roll


Jessie is pretty handsome, you're right. :roll


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## pete24 (Oct 13, 2010)

I find it hard to believe, but then again I know a few people who are far from good looking who get nice looking girls. Of course with that its all about confidence and how the come across.

Although I wouldnt trust that to work for the long term. Being physically attracted to someone is always an important factor. Otherwise later on when you know their full personality and what they are like you will be bored.

Experienced that with a fair few women. Great personality's, which probably made them seem more physically attractive, but later on found myself bored and in worst cases embarrassed to be seen with them,

1 girl specifically about 5 years ago had such a great personality which made me somehow find her physically attractive. I was happy to show her off to friends and happy to be seen out with her. A few of my friends pointed out she wasnt that hot and I could do better... Although I put it down to my personal taste. Towards the end of things I realised she actually isnt nice looking and not my type physically, things went down the pan and whenever I see her now I just dont know how I could of ever wanted to be with her


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## Rossy (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah right.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Rossy said:


> Yeah right.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

These videos are never done by people who may be considered not so good looking.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

little toaster said:


> These videos are never done by people who may be considered not so good looking.


They've had videos of bootcamp students. One of the guys was a chubby, baby-faced guy with a medium-pitched voice, and he had a lot of success. I would post it but it's from Project Go which is subscription-based. Some guy on this forum was posting the videos to a private Youtube channel, you might be able to find them somewhere.


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## PaysageDHiver (Jun 18, 2011)

I like the dryer sheet idea.


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## T-Bone (Oct 1, 2010)

Dude spent 5 minutes talking about poop and buttcrack, then basically goes on to say looks don't matter as long as you rub yourself down with fabric softener sheets. Yea, i think i'll take my advice from someone else.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

I don't think there's a lot of legitimacy to PUA's arguments. It's part of the whole marketting process to convince ANYBODY they can get laid if they just buy this PUA's method etc... Inspire people that everything is possible, and then gently slipping your website adress in the description box...

Nonetheless, looks don't matter as much as we think they do. I'm good looking and I suck at dating! Having that nice symmetrical face will only serve you when making a first impression. When people see you from far away, they think highly of you, because they assume good looking people are better at everything... until you actually engage in conversation. Then, you're labelled as boring, socially awkward etc... just like anybody.

*To sum it up, being aesthetically pleasant is nothing but a little bonus. It gives you a small headstart in the race.*

Ever heard of Baptiste Giabiconi? He's the French male model with the biggest paycheck. And he also happens to be a rather introverted/shy guy. He talks about having a hard time finding a girlfriend in some of his interviews.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

There are plenty of unattractive people who are married or in long-term relationships. The majority of people would rather have that companionship than be lonely. This is especially true as people get older.


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## theseventhkey (Jul 22, 2012)

SomebodyWakeME said:


> Dude spent 5 minutes talking about poop and buttcrack, then basically goes on to say looks don't matter as long as you rub yourself down with fabric softener sheets. Yea, i think i'll take my advice from someone else.


:yes, my thoughts on any "internet guru's". Find your own damn way.


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## Lonelygirl1986 (Sep 4, 2012)

I'd say you have to be sexually attracted to them a little bit or it won't work. That is the difference between platonic and romantic love.


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## Ivan AG (Sep 29, 2010)

Looks give you a head start.

Jessie isn't being completely honest here, but then again that would turn off some of his subscribers. 

Overall good advice.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

If I hear another dude say "pua" when it comes to guys meeting girls I'm going to explode...


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## alte (Sep 4, 2010)

It is easier to live life if you are good looking, just as it is easier if you are talented or are born into a family with connections or a wealthy family. None of this is necessary but it is something nice to have.


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

That guy is dumb, I think I'll just do my own thing.


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

he gets way too gross in that video. :no


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

It just reminds me of the way that Hollywood blows everything out of proportion, incorporates all kinds of fantasies, and makes all kinds of jokes without saying anything serious (unless it's funny by insult).

Like one of the commenters said in a thread I started, a lot of the stuff said is to get more views, IMO.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Delete this thread plox, no one responds to anything but negativity on this site.


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## Logitech (Jul 30, 2011)

Obviously. We've lost hope in a world that is consumed with a fixed image, and in this age we have access to the Internet where our identities are hidden. Why WOULDN'T we whine? This is our outlet.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Logitech said:


> Obviously. We've lost hope in a world that is consumed with a fixed image, and in this age we have access to the Internet where our identities are hidden. Why WOULDN'T we whine? This is our outlet.


That's nice.


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## Logitech (Jul 30, 2011)

Pardon? I can't tell if that was an attack on me, because I was simply stating what I observe to be sensible truth about these things. It's not like we all have supportive and emotionally connected male (I'm assuming, seeing as it's quite difficult for most males on this forum to talk to females) friends to divulge into these matters with. Might as well be extremely pessimistic on an open forum.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Logitech said:


> Pardon? I can't tell if that was an attack on me, because I was simply stating what I observe to be sensible truth about these things. It's not like we all have supportive and emotionally connected male (I'm assuming, seeing as it's quite difficult for most males on this forum to talk to females) friends to divulge into these matters with. Might as well be extremely pessimistic on an open forum.


Alrighty.


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## Logitech (Jul 30, 2011)

You've been broken too easily. You expect to garner success on such a grandiose level from other human beings? Human beings who have gone most of their life without success that many men find natural? It's like telling someone in the seventeenth century to look at birds and how they glide and fly and how he can do it too. There were so many theories circulating around about how to go about it, it made your head spin, and often, they would fail. So why wouldn't you be pessimistic and a little pissed off with someone just waltzing up to you and giving you advice, telling you your preconceptions are completely wrong? I'm not trying to belittle your mission, as it is quite noble. I am far to impatient to do something like this myself... But I think you went into this with expectations too high for people too broken to be fixed by conventional means.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Logitech said:


> You've been broken too easily. You expect to garner success on such a grandiose level from other human beings? Human beings who have gone most of their life without success that many men find natural? It's like telling someone in the seventeenth century to look at birds and how they glide and fly and how he can do it too. There were so many theories circulating around about how to go about it, it made your head spin, and often, they would fail. So why wouldn't you be pessimistic and a little pissed off with someone just waltzing up to you and giving you advice, telling you your preconceptions are completely wrong? I'm not trying to belittle your mission, as it is quite noble. I am far to impatient to do something like this myself... But I think you went into this with expectations too high for people too broken to be fixed by conventional means.


Calm down, I'm just having a bad day. I'm allowed one, right?

I have no intention or interest in throwing words at people and expecting them to magically be cured of SA. I just give the best advice I can from my own experience. It is admittedly frustrating when person after person makes excuses or the same person complains about the same thing over and over WITHOUT trying to work on their situation. It's more than frustrating. It's sad. And I only say that because even when I was at my worst - deeply depressed and regretful and beyond socially anxious - I was always open to new ideas. Open to listening. Taking advice. Sure, I complained my fair amount, and when I was depressed I could hardly get out of bed let along venture forth into the world. But barring depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or something equally bad - I don't see why people are so damn negative and dismissive and so afraid to TRY something that they will make any excuse against it.

Alright, vent...vent away...but stop ****ting on other peoples' ideas (this is not directed towards you, Logitech, just a general, pointless rant). Anyways, I should just be positive, but I suppose this is my own venting. And around we go.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> Delete this thread plox, no one responds to anything but negativity on this site.


Not a fan of simplepickup. But it is true that looks don't matter to the extent that people on SAS tend to think. I see unattractive people with girlfriends/wives all the time. Just saw an acquaintance on Facebook that fits the description.

The most important thing in a relationship is forming a connection with someone.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> Not a fan of simplepickup. But it is true that looks don't matter to the extent that people on SAS tend to think. I see unattractive people with girlfriends/wives all the time. Just saw an acquaintance on Facebook that fits the description.
> 
> The most important thing in a relationship is forming a connection with someone.


Thank you phoenix, that was impressively positive.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

There's a lot of emphasis on looks, because pretty people are nice to look at. But looks are entirely meaningless, and people realize that. If you're concerned with getting a person that values looks above everything else, then by all means feel insecure about the way you look. But if you want a relationship, then stop giving a ****. Like the guy said, just have good hygiene. Other than that, you fall for a person's personality, intelligence, how caring they are, and all that. If you want a relationship, then you put effort into developing and becoming confident in those areas, and people won't be able to resist you. If you feel confident about your looks but hate who you are as a person, then congrats you're beautiful, but no one's gonna want to be around you. 

Some of y'all will say "But I want someone attracted to me" You don't need to be gorgeous to get people attracted. I've become attracted to people's personalities when I wasn't initially attracted by their looks. And plus, I feel like a lot of people on here act like they're trying to lay Amber Heard or something. Like they're putting an emphasis on finding an attractive woman, so they feel insecure about their looks themselves. Of course you need to be attracted, but you don't need to be a 10 to have someone feel attracted to you.

So looks don't matter at all as long as you don't let them stand in your way. Because at the end of the day if people remember you most for how great you look, then you didn't make a true impression. If they remember how funny and smart and friendly and warm you were, then you've opened a door there.

ETA: Probably none of this makes sense, I'm very scattered right now and didn't proofread or try to organize my thoughts.


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> Not a fan of simplepickup. But it is true that looks don't matter to the extent that people on SAS tend to think. I see unattractive people with girlfriends/wives all the time. Just saw an acquaintance on Facebook that fits the description.
> 
> *The most important thing in a relationship is forming a connection with someone.*


absolutely, if you want something lasting that is mutually supportive to both partners.

I've been around a fair few years and I've been divorced and married four times and in relationships without being married.

pay attention to the words in bold above. if you can't form connections with others, or can't LET yourself form connections because you think you aren 't good enough, etc, etc, you are in for a rough, lonely time.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Barette said:


> There's a lot of emphasis on looks, because pretty people are nice to look at. But looks are entirely meaningless, and people realize that. If you're concerned with getting a person that values looks above everything else, then by all means feel insecure about the way you look. But if you want a relationship, then stop giving a ****. Like the guy said, just have good hygiene. Other than that, you fall for a person's personality, intelligence, how caring they are, and all that. If you want a relationship, then you put effort into developing and becoming confident in those areas, and people won't be able to resist you. If you feel confident about your looks but hate who you are as a person, then congrats you're beautiful, but no one's gonna want to be around you.
> 
> Some of y'all will say "But I want someone attracted to me" You don't need to be gorgeous to get people attracted. I've become attracted to people's personalities when I wasn't initially attracted by their looks. And plus, I feel like a lot of people on here act like they're trying to lay Amber Heard or something. Like they're putting an emphasis on finding an attractive woman, so they feel insecure about their looks themselves. Of course you need to be attracted, but you don't need to be a 10 to have someone feel attracted to you.
> 
> ...


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

^And y'all see? That was cause I said some awesome words there, nothing to do with looks.

But seriously, do any of y'all really want a relationship where at the first wrinkle or gained pound the person dumps you? Where because the relationship was built on being good-looking, that once those looks fade then the emptiness of the relationship is exposed? I really doubt that. I'm sure y'all want a relationship where you can enjoy every single day you spend with that person because you like _who they are_. So why lament about not getting that hot chick that scoffs at you? Why would you want her? Just focus on building who you are, and learning to like yourself, because sure looks attract people, but what's inside is what keeps them around. And you know what?

I wouldn't date Brad Pitt, because he's boring and vanilla as all hell. He puts me to sleep when I watch interviews. I'd date Jonah Hill though, cause the dude would make me laugh.

ETA: Changing your attitude towards how you view who you are as a person would be SO MUCH more rewarding than changing your appearance. Because I can tell you, once the looks fade, then you're left with nothing again. But if you learn to say "**** how I look, cause 50 years from now I won't have any looks anyway. But I will have my brain, and I gotta learn how to get along with myself and that I'm worth being around and meet the people who share that opinion." (I'm probably getting off topic here but again, scatter-brained right now)


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

Barette said:


> ^And y'all see? That was cause I said some awesome words there, nothing to do with looks.
> 
> But seriously, do any of y'all really want a relationship where at the first wrinkle or gained pound the person dumps you? Where because the relationship was built on being good-looking, that once those looks fade then the emptiness of the relationship is exposed? I really doubt that. I'm sure y'all want a relationship where you can enjoy every single day you spend with that person because you like _who they are_. So why lament about not getting that hot chick that scoffs at you? Why would you want her? Just focus on building who you are, and learning to like yourself, because sure looks attract people, but what's inside is what keeps them around.
> 
> I wouldn't date Brad Pitt, because he's boring and vanilla as all hell. He puts me to sleep when I watch interviews. I'd date Jonah Hill though, cause the dude would make me laugh.


We can't avoid seeing ourselves in the mirror when we get ready in the morning, though.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

little toaster said:


> We can't avoid seeing ourselves in the mirror when we get ready in the morning, though.


Yes, I struggle with that very much so myself, but it's important to learn how to look past those looks because they are what matters least about who we are. And lamenting about those looks are going to get us nowhere because they're the things that we can't change, and they're the things that won't be around forever. Who we are though, and how we view ourselves, we can adjust that, and those adjustments can last forever.

ETA: And plus (rambling here, not even directed at you littletoaster), but once you get those looks perfect, then where do you go from there? You're at a dead end again. We all like to think that fixing those looks will help, but they won't. Because the fact that we'd put such an emphasis on how we look in the first place shows that we don't value who we are on the insides. If we did, then we wouldn't give as much of a **** because we'd know we have better stuff to offer than pouty lips or nice cheekbones.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

I'll say one more word about this: A lot of us let our looks become a scapegoat for our issues. "Well if I was better-looking this or that or this or that would happen." Well no, if you were better-looking, then you'd be pretty and miserable, instead of average and miserable. Either way _you still don't like who you are_ and from that _still won't be happy._ And we let it stand in the way of self acceptance, like we can't accept ourselves for who we are cause these pesky looks stand in the way. But that's all our own brains looking for something to put that blame on. To look for something that lets us stay stagnant, so that we don't need to make self-improvements or any motions towards a better life. Again, not everyone does this, but I'm very guilty of it, and I see other people on here guilty of it as well. Because looks do not define who we are, and if you were to let them, then you'd be shallow and an empty person. Who are the people who have impacted your life the most. Is it because they had thick hair? Or bright eyes? I really doubt it. Maybe that's something about them you remember, or is indeed a physical trait (i.e. least important trait) of them, but it's not what made them important to you. My best friends in life, I didn't choose them because they were pretty and likewise they didn't choose me for that reason. We chose each other because we could spend days and days together and have an awesome time and have fun with whatever we did. 
So I get wallowing, because I wallow all the time, and god knows if you've read my posts here you'll know I don't follow what I'm saying right now, but the logical part of my brain is alive enough to see that what I'm saying is very applicable to life. Because looks DON'T matter.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

But pretty people always get invited to parties and get to go out with other pretty people.

Ok, maybe just in movies and TV shows. But that's what some of us think.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

little toaster said:


> But pretty people always get invited to parties and get to go out with other pretty people.
> 
> Ok, maybe just in movies and TV shows. But that's what some of us think.


If you place your self-value on party invites and if your friends are pretty. Personally, I don't. And I've been to a party or two and I can tell you they're not all pretty.


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## pete24 (Oct 13, 2010)

Fair enough like people are saying, connecting to someone is essential and can build that attractiveness but I think I put a point where surely you just cant base a relationship on the fact you connect well with them well only.

Its human nature to take things for granted and become bored of things. There were other threads here before that had people saying they would get bored if they were with someone they didnt find attractive.

Looks must take a part later on down the line. Offering everything else but not being attractive to a person can put problems on things in the long term. 

If you dont think you look good and dont change that so you always look your best then your not going to feel your best, and how can you have the confidence when you cant help but think people are thinking your looking ugly


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Yes, attraction is one of the most important keys in a relationship, probably the most important. But you don't need to be good looking to attract someone, and there are many facets to attraction.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

Barette said:


> Yes, attraction is one of the most important keys in a relationship, probably the most important. But you don't need to be good looking to attract someone, and there are many facets to attraction.


What if the only thing missing is being better looking, and no one tells us that?

You know people who won't say anything for whatever reason and expect you to figure out what is wrong or what the other person doesn't like.


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

little toaster said:


> What if the only thing missing is being better looking, and no one tells us that?
> 
> You know people who won't say anything for whatever reason and expect you to figure out what is wrong or what the other person doesn't like.


Then maybe that person wasn't attracted to you. That's gonna happen all the time, for anyone. You say "Okay, fine" and try to find another person who might be attracted. Good-looking guys have tons of women not attracted to them. Attraction is a very fickle thing. Some say it's immediate, some say it can grow over time. Either way, you can't control it. I go through the cutest guys thread and don't think like 75% of them are anything special, but whoever posted their photo does. I've had people tell me I was gross, I've had people tell me I was lovely. If we're gonna base how we feel about our looks based on how many people are attracted to us, then none of us would have a self-esteem.


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## Doomed (Jul 29, 2012)

Looks are the most important thing in a beginning of a potential relationship. They absolutely do matter, and men with good looks have a tremendous advantage over an ugly man.

General advice doesn't work for unattractive people.

"Be yourself!"
"Be confident!"
"Have a sense of humor!"

Doesn't apply with ugly people. Sure, there will be _someone_ in a planet of 3.5 billion (assuming you are heterosexual) potential mates to find you attractive, but this means sacrificing your own standards and settling for a partner in your league. The number will be cut in half further once you realize many of the women are married and taken. The number again takes a huge cut once you take into account how you look. Then you have to adjust your standards and settle for someone in your league.

You can help a chubby man who needs to lose some pounds around the waist. You can tell a man who wears glasses to change to contacts and get a nice haircut. But it's not possible to change a face unless you have an incredible amount of money to spend on plastic surgery. I've seen men who would be lucky to find a partner, and if they do find a partner, she would have to be just as ugly or barely above average. People tend to stay in their own class of attraction. That's not being cruel, it's just an observation that I've happened to make. The better you look, the better looking people you attract. It's just that simple.

And here is the biggest contradiction of this advice that I hear: You need to be happy with whom you are. Be confident, and if you don't have any, fake it and pretend. Accept your flaws and shortcomings, yet the first pillar of advice to help someone score more dates is to completely change your appearance! And this just completely reaffirms my point that looks are the most important key in finding a mate.


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## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

Doomed said:


> fake it and pretend. Accept your flaws and shortcomings, yet the first pillar of advice to help someone score more dates is to completely change your appearance!


Which kind of makes you understand why people lie in the beginning or in the middle of their relationships. Of course, there's always drama when the girl finds out that the guy hadn't been honest from the beginning. Because dating someone for 2 years and then having a nasty break up is being better than being friends for 2 years and not getting anywhere. In those 2 years, she could end up dating someone else, break off your friendship for her SO, etc.

When you run out of your "fake and pretend" act, you're stuck. Then what do you do? Disappoint her and admit it was all just an act? I don't think you can live the rest of your life faking and pretending. You're going to run out of that energy some time. Even if you have the energy, there will always be some triggers to set you off and show who you really are.


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## Doomed (Jul 29, 2012)

little toaster said:


> Which kind of makes you understand why people lie in the beginning or in the middle of their relationships. Of course, there's always drama when the girl finds out that the guy hadn't been honest from the beginning. Because dating someone for 2 years and then having a nasty break up is being better than being friends for 2 years and not getting anywhere. In those 2 years, she could end up dating someone else, break off your friendship for her SO, etc.
> 
> When you run out of your "fake and pretend" act, you're stuck. Then what do you do? Disappoint her and admit it was all just an act? I don't think you can live the rest of your life faking and pretending. You're going to run out of that energy some time. Even if you have the energy, there will always be some triggers to set you off and show who you really are.


Completely agree with your points. And these pick up techniques work to score a date and have sex with a woman, but if you're looking for a long-term relationship, the woman is going to see through your casenova, fake confidence bull**** eventually. Your true character and mannerisms are going to filter out, and she is going to perceive you as a completely different person. Not the best idea to base a foundation of trust on a lie.

If women truly value personality over looks, then we are essentially lying to her by putting on a show in the trial period of the relationship.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Time to offend some people so we can spread the truth!

All those males who say looks are equally as important as personnality, or that looks are a huge boost in your game... you're wrong. Just... plain wrong.

I'm assuming the reason why you say that is because *you're average looking and you guys don't have ANY experience of any kind when it comes to relationships.* *Hence in your mind, you make the following connection: average looks = no girls.* *You guys aren't entitled to have the right to say such things.* You're just going to reinforce some other SAS people's belief that looks are what is holding them back. When really it isn't. So please, spare us your rantings. :mum

For god's sake, I can't count the males in my life who are uglier than me but constantly form relationships with people of the opposite sex.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

What Bacon said. I have landed dates from girls on online dating sites almost entirely on looks alone. But when it comes to the actual date and you don't have chemistry and can't connect, that isn't going to matter. Even if a woman is interested in casual sex, pretty much every woman who does wants to have some sort of connection with the guy. Not necessarily romantic with lovey dovey feelings or whatever.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Doomed said:


> Completely agree with your points. And these pick up techniques work to score a date and have sex with a woman, but if you're looking for a long-term relationship, the woman is going to see through your casenova, fake confidence bull**** eventually. Your true character and mannerisms are going to filter out, and she is going to perceive you as a completely different person. Not the best idea to base a foundation of trust on a lie.
> 
> If women truly value personality over looks, then we are essentially lying to her by putting on a show in the trial period of the relationship.


It's not putting on a show. The idea is to do your best to be confident, and over time, with hard work and positive thinkng, you actually _will_ become confident. Then it's no show. It's no fake. It's YOU. Unfortunately, people use being "ugly" (even though 95% of the time they're actually not even bad looking) as an excuse to not even TRY to develop confidence, and instead just wallow in a pool of their own misery. I understand being upset or complaining about it, but when guys define their existence by it or pin their lack of success on their looks time and time again without even really TRYING, it's just like, "oh boy, this old excuse again."

Look at Neil Strauss, for crying out loud. The guy is tiny and isn't exactly super handsome, but he gets more girls than anyone:


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Doomed said:


> Completely agree with your points. And these pick up techniques work to score a date and have sex with a woman, but if you're looking for a long-term relationship, the woman is going to see through your casenova, fake confidence bull**** eventually. Your true character and mannerisms are going to filter out, and she is going to perceive you as a completely different person. Not the best idea to base a foundation of trust on a lie.
> 
> If women truly value personality over looks, then we are essentially lying to her by putting on a show in the trial period of the relationship.


It's not putting on a show. The idea is to do your best to be confident, and over time, with hard work and positive thinkng, you actually _will_ become confident. Then it's no show. It's no fake. It's YOU. Unfortunately, people use being "ugly" (even though 95% of the time they're actually not even bad looking) as an excuse to not even TRY to develop confidence, and instead just wallow in a pool of their own misery. I understand being upset or complaining about it, but when guys define their existence by it or pin their lack of success on their looks time and time again without even really TRYING, it's just like, "oh boy, this old excuse again."

Look at Neil Strauss, for crying out loud. The guy is tiny and isn't exactly Brad Pitt, but he gets more girls than anyone:


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Yes, it's like seeing a twig in the road and acting like an entire tree is blocking the way. Yes, looks are a bonus to have in life there's never gonna be any denying that, but looks sure are not the make it or break it for happiness, or relationships, or dating, or anything, really.


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I can't judge by this video, or make a comment in this thread, because _there is no video linked. _


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## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

That's ridiculous! They probably removed it because the guy cursed a lot. Because, we all have such pristine virgin ears that cannot be sullied by such rude words.


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## Ivan AG (Sep 29, 2010)

Barette said:


> That's ridiculous! They probably removed it because the guy cursed a lot. Because, we all have such pristine virgin ears that cannot be sullied by such rude words.


Speak for yourself.

I'm a vulgar mofo in real life.


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## Doomed (Jul 29, 2012)

rymo said:


> It's not putting on a show. *The idea is to do your best to be confident, and over time, with hard work and positive thinkng, you actually will become confident.*


That's very general advice. I can't imagine that helping anyone. Confidence comes from how you feel about your appearance. Which supports my original point. Looks are the most important factor in determining how you will fare in the dating world. Looks afford you multiple opportunities with women. An ugly man would have a very limited amount of opportunities with the same pool of average woman. It's a very simple idea and has been proven true over the course of time.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Doomed said:


> That's very general advice. I can't imagine that helping anyone. Confidence comes from how you feel about your appearance. Which supports my original point. Looks are the most important factor in determining how you will fare in the dating world. Looks afford you multiple opportunities with women. An ugly man would have a very limited amount of opportunities with the same pool of average woman. It's a very simple idea and has been proven true over the course of time.


I can give you as specific advice as you need to develop confidence, it wouldn't do any good if you're not open to putting it into action.


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## Doomed (Jul 29, 2012)

rymo said:


> I can give you as specific advice as you need to develop confidence, it wouldn't do any good if you're not open to putting it into action.


I wasn't asking for your advice, Hitch. It's just a simple discussion and I have a different point of view.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Doomed said:


> I wasn't asking for your advice, Hitch. It's just a simple discussion and I have a different point of view.


Same here.


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## Droidsteel (Mar 22, 2012)

little toaster said:


> These videos are never done by people who may be considered not so good looking.


This!

I totally get that anyone _can_ get in a relationship regardless of how ugly they are, but I refuse to believe anyone who is significantly above average has trouble in that area.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

I disagree with this thread, only because i have seen specific scientific data that shows that women are physically attracted first. Physical attractiveness is the number one factor (Height, Facial Symmatry, Muscles and Muscular definition)

this was actually in a Yale university online course i took, and the instructor provided strong data from hundreds of studies. Men higher in testesterone will also produce higher pheremones that attract women on an subconcious level (Also now proven)

I believe money comes in second, followed by Confidence, and then other personality traits

So my scale, 

1) looks
2) Money (Not rich but at least average or above)
3) Confidence and strong male traits
4) other personality traits (Social, humor) etc.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

I highly recommend the site PUAHATE.com. I used to listen to this one guy David Deangelo, then i saw what he married and i was like no!


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Sphere said:


> Anything involving a bootcamp is setup. All the girls are in on it, they are paid/hired or just friends that will always flirt and respond positively too new recruits and make them believe they didn't just waste $3,000.
> 
> I can't believe people fall for this **** lol, granted they get a huge confidence boost but what they actually said and did wouldn't have worked in reality.
> 
> ...


LOL it's all a conspiracy...oooOOoooOOoOooo


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

Zeeshan said:


> I disagree with this thread, only because i have seen specific scientific data that shows that women are physically attracted first. Physical attractiveness is the number one factor (Height, Facial Symmatry, Muscles and Muscular definition)
> 
> this was actually in a Yale university online course i took, and the instructor provided strong data from hundreds of studies. Men higher in testesterone will also produce higher pheremones that attract women on an subconcious level (Also now proven)
> 
> ...


just wanted to also mention this, while this is how women choose their mates, there is an aspect called misattribution that takes place, which if you look at the entire PUA scheme is built around missatribution, giving the impression that you are something you're not.

For the most part women fall in love on three bases, similarity, fimiliarity and proximity.

Similarity: Takes into account physical attractiveness, they seek mates that have the same level of physicall attractiveness, social standing, values, money, etc.

Fimilarity: A woman is more likely to fall in love with someone she knows then a stranger.

Proximity: Human beings, initially from Tribes, obviously look for mates closer to home.

Missatribution: Woman assumes man to be something he is not. So he is not one of the above, but she mistakens him. This usually leads to heart break when reality sets in


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Zeeshan said:


> I highly recommend the site PUAHATE.com. I used to listen to this one guy David Deangelo, then i saw what he married and i was like no!


PUAhate members are at least as dumb, and probably worse, than PUA advocates. They each take an opposite end of the spectrum.

PUAs: Confidence is the only thing that matters! Apply this trick and any virgin loser can become a confident alphamale!

PUAhaters: looks and money are the only thing that matters!


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr Bacon said:


> PUAhate members are at least as dumb, and probably worse, than PUA advocates. They each take an opposite end of the spectrum.
> 
> PUAs: Confidence is the only thing that matters! Apply this trick and any virgin loser can become a confident alphamale!
> 
> PUAhaters: looks and money are the only thing that matters!


but looks and money give you confidence

its an accumalative formula, everything contributes to confidence. Are you telling me that if you won the lottery today, your confidence wouldnt be through the roof


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Zeeshan said:


> but looks and money give you confidence
> 
> its an accumalative formula, everything contributes to confidence. Are you telling me that if you won the lottery today, your confidence wouldnt be through the roof


I'm good looking, and happen to be the son of two wealthy parents. I'm also studying in my country's equivalent of Harvard. That doesn't make me socially confident, unfortunately. Different strokes for different blokes, my friend. There's unfortunately no 'one-size-fits-all' formula.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr Bacon said:


> I'm good looking, and happen to be the son of two wealthy parents. I'm also studying in my country's equivalent of Harvard. That doesn't make me socially confident, unfortunately. Different strokes for different blokes, my friend. There's unfortunately no 'one-size-fits-all' formula.


Once again i would ofcourse mention that this board is geared towards social anxiety and as such is not representative of the population.

you dont have social confidence, that okay, i think you have just failed to get yourself out there


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Zeeshan said:


> Once again i would ofcourse mention that this board is geared towards social anxiety and as such is not representative of the population.
> 
> you dont have social confidence, that okay, i think you have just failed to get yourself out there


You're being condescending! I used to be in the whole PUA philosophy a long time ago, putting myself out there is something I have tried over and over again. Drop that 'I know it all' attitude, please.


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## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

Mr Bacon said:


> You're being condescending! I used to be in the whole PUA philosophy a long time ago, putting myself out there is something I have tried over and over again. Drop that 'I know it all' attitude, please.


What made you stop putting yourself out there?


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

rymo said:


> What made you stop putting yourself out there?


I still have short encounters with girls, occasional make out sessions... although not as frequently as I would like to. The booze obviously helps with confidence.

But when it comes to relationships, I've had nothing but bad breakups where the girl dumped me shortly after starting to go out with me. Nowadays, I don't put myself out there in the "relationship market", because I don't want any more rejections to break down my self-esteem. At least not until I manage to get my chronic depression under control. My depression was the reason I couldn't manage to form relationships in the first place... When I find the right meds, I'll get back in the game. Right now, I need a long break.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr Bacon said:


> I still have short encounters with girls, occasional make out sessions... although not as frequently as I would like to. The booze obviously helps with confidence.
> 
> But when it comes to relationships, I've had nothing but bad breakups where the girl dumped me shortly after starting to go out with me. Nowadays, I don't put myself out there in the "relationship market", because I don't want any more rejections to break down my self-esteem. At least not until I manage to get my chronic depression under control. My depression was the reason I couldn't manage to form relationships in the first place... When I find the right meds, I'll get back in the game. Right now, I need a long break.


Exactly depression which is a disease


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Mr Bacon how do you relate with people other than women you want to date/have sex with?

I haven't come to the realization until the ripe age of 27 that my social relationships with pretty much everyone isn't all that strong. It sounds awful but I'm not terribly interested in what goes on in the lives of people I know (I feel guilty even admitting this! lol) The reason why I suck at talking with girls is because I never really care to ask my friends how their day/weekend was and all that kind of stuff. I don't have the basic foundation for a balanced relationship in my platonic life. Why would I in my romantic life? I usually just go straight into talking about what I want to talk about. With girls I want to maketh the sexy time with, I do not do this because I understand that the way I talk with my friends (dominating conversations, not asking them about what's going on in their life, me waxing philosophically and the "good ole boy" nature of a lot of our conversations) is just going to annoy chicks. That's why I'm largely lost with conversing with them. lol.

I think it's amusing how I'm often quiet on dates. Meanwhile if I have something I want to talk about, I will not shut the **** up sometimes with friends. And I often annoy them with how I dominate a conversation.

I've come to one of two conclusions: Either other people are more willing to be reciprocal in their social interactions with others because they fundamentally understand that they will be rewarded in the end. Or two, I have some sort of different wiring in my brain that makes me not give a **** about people's lives all that much.

My two-way conversational skills have improved (after a few dud dates, I went on a what I thought was a date with a cute SA girl that turned out rather pleasant. Only to find out she is a lesbian). But I think it's pretty bad that I have to force myself to say things like how are you? how was your weekend? I'm trying to figure out if I am just wired to not care. Or whether others are just faking it and I just happen to be reluctant to?

There are times where social anxiety makes me quiet for sure. But it's not always like this. I can be rather quiet with friends that I trust. Sometimes I just don't have anything to say.

I suspect that a lot of guys who have trouble with girls have some other mental disorder other than social anxiety or depression. With increasing knowledge and awareness of the autistic spectrum, lots of people these days are getting diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. And I suspect that a lot of guys who have trouble with women have Asperger's (which has like a 4:1 male:female ratio. People on the autistic spectrum have highly "male-oriented" brains) and have difficulty relating to people in general due to their own eccentric quirks. I was diagnosed with high-functioning autism in 1990. But the understanding of autism was rather limited back then. If I went through the school system as a kid now, they'd probably say that I have Asperger's.


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## Ivan AG (Sep 29, 2010)

phoenix, maybe you have a schizoid personality?


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## lisa anne (Dec 6, 2011)

I find it kind of funny how some of the men on here are insecure because they want girls to like them for things other than looks, money and status. Yet they say things like "My friend isn't the best looking but he has a good looking girlfriend." I'm sorry but that really contradicts itself... if you want a girl who wants you for things other than money status and looks, you have to give her the same.


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

phoenixwright said:


> Mr Bacon how do you relate with people other than women you want to date/have sex with?
> 
> I haven't come to the realization until the ripe age of 27 that my social relationships with pretty much everyone isn't all that strong. It sounds awful but I'm not terribly interested in what goes on in the lives of people I know (I feel guilty even admitting this! lol) The reason why I suck at talking with girls is because I never really care to ask my friends how their day/weekend was and all that kind of stuff. I don't have the basic foundation for a balanced relationship in my platonic life. Why would I in my romantic life? I usually just go straight into talking about what I want to talk about. With girls I want to maketh the sexy time with, I do not do this because I understand that the way I talk with my friends (dominating conversations, not asking them about what's going on in their life, me waxing philosophically and the "good ole boy" nature of a lot of our conversations) is just going to annoy chicks. That's why I'm largely lost with conversing with them. lol.
> 
> ...


I'm generally an introvert, rather boring guy. Sometimes I really do want to participate in conversation with extroverts, but they're just too fast. My brain doesn't catch up or something.

You know, I've stopped over-analyzing everything after a while. I just accept things as they are, and see where I can go from there.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

How many of you actually try to meet women in real life? I'd rather get some statistics than hearing from the peanut gallery. Because, as far as I'm concerned, online is horrible for most guys, so relating your evidence to that is pretty flawed in my opinion.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> I disagree with this thread, only because i have seen specific scientific data that shows that women are physically attracted first. Physical attractiveness is the number one factor (Height, Facial Symmatry, Muscles and Muscular definition)
> 
> this was actually in a Yale university online course i took, and the instructor provided strong data from hundreds of studies. Men higher in testesterone will also produce higher pheremones that attract women on an subconcious level (Also now proven)
> 
> ...


Money is hardly an issue. You can be broke as hell and still meet lots of women. That is one of the worst fallacies of our time. It helps, but if you ain't got nothing going on beyond that you still suck and women won't like you

If you want to marry someone and start up a family or share expenses then obviously money matters but it falls in comparison to other "attraction" factors.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Would you date a hot woman if you have no chemistry with them? It would probably last a week at best before you'd rather run the other way. Not any emotionally healthy individual would date a girl purely on looks if the girl was emotionally unappealing.

On the other hand, an average looking girl will win every time over a hot girl if the average girl makes the man feel good and there is mutual respect and chemistry.

How the hell can you expect to date someone you despise or hate? How can you date someone you have no intellectual or moral respect for? How can you date someone that doesn't like you? These things are not attractive regardless of how beautiful the person appears to be.

While all you ***** about not being able to date someone because you're "ugly" I'll be out there actually talking to girls and dating the ones I FIND ATTRACTIVE. Personally, I can give two ****s about what you think of them. Some of the worst encounters I've ever had were with girls who were beautiful but HORRIBLE personalities..it wanted to make me throw up. You think to yourself, "wow, she's really pretty" and then some obnoxious personality trait or disgusting inner-side to her reveals itself and I end up despising her.

I'll go for a women with average looks over a model with a horrible personality any day. The model girl may catch my eye but once she reveals her true self to me and if it's ugly then I'll automatically find the average girl more attractive. Keep in mind that when I say "ugly personality" it isn't always all-encompassing either--it can be ONE little thing about them you really don't like and it'll ruin the whole package. I think women tend to feel the same way.

Fortunately for average looking people there are a lot of "beautiful" people with ugly personalities so never shoot yourself in the foot. If that person decides to be with you and your average looks then they made a decision over other options and when a person makes their mind up about what they want they generally are satisfied when they get it even in the face of opposition (beautiful people)

Fortunately for me I'm the coolest most bad *** mother ****er ever to walk the planet regardless because that's what I decide. Obviously people aren't gonna agree but just the belief alone will carry me heaps beyond most lames


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

bwidger85 said:


> Would you date a hot woman if you have no chemistry with them? It would probably last a week at best before you'd rather run the other way. Not any emotionally healthy individual would date a girl purely on looks if the girl was emotionally unappealing.
> 
> On the other hand, an average looking girl will win every time over a hot girl if the average girl makes the man feel good and there is mutual respect and chemistry.
> 
> ...


Also, as you've probably experienced yourself, when you aren't attracted to someone for WHATEVER reason (looks, personality, etc.) then what you tend to do is shut yourself off to them which makes it seem like you don't like them (because you don't). So when a HEALTHY minded person sees you shut yourself off to them they think to themselves, "man, this person sucks. i don't like them".... in other words, people like people who like them even if they aren't consciously aware of it.

People will go around saying someone has an ugly personality because that person has shut themselves off to them, but in reality the person who shut themselves off might have a wonderful personality. If you go around moping about your sad lot in life and don't give yourself permission to talk to these people you find attractive them you are essentially shutting yourself out before even given the opportunity to see if it can work.

A pessimist would say that ALL attractive people are only attracted to other attractive people. While the attractive person may get more notices or invitations this holds little weight to a person who knows he/she is a boss. When you are an attractive person and all you get is ****ty-*** losers approaching you then you will be more accepting of someone who is a boss. If you are a good looking person but you suck on the inside then the person who doesn't suck on the inside will be more attractive. Lol. It's really that simple.

Good looking people tend to have more confidence because they feel attractive because of what society shows them, and confidence (being a boss) is attractive. However, as seen in these forums alone, many attractive people have little confidence and that isn't as attractive compared to someone with more confidence. So how does an average or even an "ugly" person have confidence if it's what society gives them? I would argue the people with high levels of confidence who aren't as attractive as others find it within themselves and they basically give themselves permission to be bad asses, which is attractive.

Also consider that those who respect themselves tend to look after themselves psychically and hygienically. When you dress well and have good hygiene you are more attractive. Unless you have some really deformed face then you can literally dress nice and take care of your body to a degree where if you are a "5" you'd jump up to an 8. Meanwhile the "attractive" person can dress mundanely and be considered less attractive based on style or hygiene alone.

My point is, so many things make someone attractive. Looks may get you the initial glance or invitation but if you ain't got the other things handled then you'll lose out to less attractive people simply because those people are bosses and love and take care of themselves. Being less attractive is generally either a facial thing you can't really control or it's something else you actually can control.

Let me end this clearly though,_ if all things are equal_, an attractive person will get more opportunities than a less attractive person generally, but not all things are equal!


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Money is hardly an issue. You can be broke as hell and still meet lots of women. That is one of the worst fallacies of our time. It helps, but if you ain't got nothing going on beyond that you still suck and women won't like you
> 
> If you want to marry someone and start up a family or share expenses then obviously money matters but it falls in comparison to other "attraction" factors.


I disagree completely. I never said that a lack of any one thing is an issue, i said that these are positives. All have a cumulative effect. Like it or not Women, regardless of how much they make, are interested in Men who make money and drive rich cars. Women are also interested in good looking guys, and confident guys.

Its all cumulative, which is whats improtant. No one single factor changes anything, but they all have a positive cumulative effect.

Money represents a man's ability to bring home the "hunt". Traditional role for a women is to raise the children. Remember we still have the same BRAIN as our ancestors. Nothings changed except social behavior, but unconcious behavior remains the same.

Money = provider
Looks = good and healthy genes for offspring
Confidence and Muscles = Mans ability to defend her against other men
Social traits = Man's popularity with other men who are unlikely to attack him due to his social standing

cant you see, its all the same


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Zeeshan said:


> I disagree completely. I never said that a lack of any one thing is an issue, i said that these are positives. All have a cumulative effect. Like it or not Women, regardless of how much they make, are interested in Men who make money and drive rich cars. Women are also interested in good looking guys, and confident guys.
> 
> Its all cumulative, which is whats improtant. No one single factor changes anything, but they all have a positive cumulative effect.
> 
> ...


These factors are obviously all cumulative. *Nonetheless, money and looks are so far behind personnality in terms of importance.* Unless you live in a third world country or are into gold diggers, money doesn't mean much! A guy in my year at univ happens to be a 25 year old millionnaire. He's also, unfortunately, a social recluse, and doesn't do too well with girls, even if he owns 3 sports cars and 2 Audis.

The guy who gets laid the most that I know of, is an average looking, happy, overly confident dude who works 2 minimum wage jobs. He didn't even go to university. The guy has had sex in parking lots, trains, public staircases, with a married woman behind the husband's back, with customers, and has had threesomes. He's just the most fearless, charismatic, badass guy I have ever seen and I envy him. I'd be ready to give away all my networth and my good looks to be like him.

Look reality in the eye! Don't tell me the only players you know are rich douches or male models!


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr Bacon said:


> These factors are obviously all cumulative. *Nonetheless, money and looks are so far behind personnality in terms of importance.* Unless you live in a third world country or are into gold diggers, money doesn't mean much! A guy in my year at univ happens to be a 25 year old millionnaire. He's also, unfortunately, a social recluse, and doesn't do too well with girls, even if he owns 3 sports cars and 2 Audis.
> 
> The guy who gets laid the most that I know of, is an average looking, happy, overly confident dude who works 2 minimum wage jobs. He didn't even go to university. The guy has had sex in parking lots, trains, public staircases, with a married woman behind the husband's back, with customers, and has had threesomes. He's just the most fearless, charismatic, badass guy I have ever seen and I envy him. I'd be ready to give away all my networth and my good looks to be like him.
> 
> Look reality in the eye! Don't tell me the only players you know are rich douches or male models!


Personality lags behind physical attractiveness, and we arent talking about players,

the main strategy used by players is to identify loose women, and play the numbers games. There are loose women everywhere, and anyone willing to chase women without fear of rejection, will succeed with them. He will just keep going to women after women until he does

I never said that confidence wasnt used (lets just not use personality but just use the word confidence for fearlessness, charisma, and badass), it is one of the factors.

The fact that your friend has all those things and cant get laid likely has to do with his anxiety issues, and his inability to put himself out there. Women love money and millionaires, he just has to go where these women are. He probably doesnt.

I hold firm that there are three factors involved and all are cumulative

they are physical attractiveness, money, confidence (including personality), i am not going to bother saying one is superior to another, if i had a million my life would be difference, and i can buy looks and confidence.

So if i had to rank them in terms of what works with women i will go

Physical attractiveness
Money
Confidence

but all three are very very close. Lets say they are worth 33.3% each. Having a ridicolous amount of either of the three results in extreme success


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> I disagree completely. I never said that a lack of any one thing is an issue, i said that these are positives. All have a cumulative effect. Like it or not Women, regardless of how much they make, are interested in Men who make money and drive rich cars. Women are also interested in good looking guys, and confident guys.
> 
> Its all cumulative, which is whats improtant. No one single factor changes anything, but they all have a positive cumulative effect.
> 
> ...


Money is no issue. Like I said, money is only important if the girl is a gold digger or if she has special plans like a house that she'd like to share with you or kids or something, but even then most guys can afford this in america (maybe not a house but w/e).

Even if money had some effect to turn a woman on minutely, it still is no comparison to passion and love or even a hot stud. Not only do I personally have evidence that money doesn't matter but so do all my friends and there friends, friends... hell, i drive a beat up, rusted 1995 ford torus and i live with my dad while i go to school...i date girls i want...what more evidence do you need?

Think what you will but this is something I'm 100% certain of with no questions about it. All you have to do is go to a bar or a restaurant or somewhere where couples go and you can see all over the place money doesn't mean ****. That's a easy one to figure out, unlike the whole looks thing which tends to be more complicated


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Zeeshan said:


> Personality lags behind physical attractiveness, and we arent talking about players,
> 
> the main strategy used by players is to identify loose women, and play the numbers games. There are loose women everywhere, and anyone willing to chase women without fear of rejection, will succeed with them. He will just keep going to women after women until he does
> 
> ...


What makes you entitled to say your theory is correct? What gives you the right to say that?

I have looks, a wealthy family background, and most likely a brilliant professional future ahead of me. I also bump into a few brilliant people where I study, and I've stated clear exemples to demonstrate what I meant.

*What do you have, exactly?*


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> Personality lags behind physical attractiveness, and we arent talking about players,
> 
> the main strategy used by players is to identify loose women, and play the numbers games. There are loose women everywhere, and anyone willing to chase women without fear of rejection, will succeed with them. He will just keep going to women after women until he does
> 
> ...


"loose" women? lol. come on man.... easy women aren't the only ones who have sex for sex. lots of good women have sex for sex too. you talk about being controlled by societal bull**** but you yourself fall victim to the belief that girls who have casual sex are some how bad. why contradict yourself?

sex does not equal bad!

some people get too emotionally attached with sex and so they may not like it casually, and i actually read that women release ocitocin (spellcheck) during sex that is like a bonding hormone which men aren't affected as much to it, which kind of explains why some women get emotionally attached after sex and most men not so much. anyway, side tangent......

i'm more the emotional type believe it or not so even though i talk about casual sex and stuff i really don't do that much at all and if i find a girl i like i'm not going to just break her heart.... i'm not an *******... i just recently relized how much women may get emotionally attached after sex which makes me feel kind of bad about ranting about the **** forever because i simply didn't understand, but i wouldn't put all women in that category either


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> Money is no issue. Like I said, money is only important if the girl is a gold digger or if she has special plans like a house that she'd like to share with you or kids or something, but even then most guys can afford this in america (maybe not a house but w/e).
> 
> Even if money had some effect to turn a woman on minutely, it still is no comparison to passion and love or even a hot stud. Not only do I personally have evidence that money doesn't matter but so do all my friends and there friends, friends... hell, i drive a beat up, rusted 1995 ford torus and i live with my dad while i go to school...i date girls i want...what more evidence do you need?
> 
> Think what you will but this is something I'm 100% certain of with no questions about it. All you have to do is go to a bar or a restaurant or somewhere where couples go and you can see all over the place money doesn't mean ****. That's a easy one to figure out, unlike the whole looks thing which tends to be more complicated


Keep in mind though, you and i live in two very different places. From what i gather from the news, things are not very good in Ohio. Its relative to what everyone has. Maybe at your age over there, no has anything.

I think that you are considering things from a very restricted get laid point of view. you ought to be considering it from a broader point of view in life in general. If you are meeting some one your age, and she doesnt want a house or children in her future, then wouldnt you be asking where am i going with her.

I think money is huge. Money can outright buy looks. Seen what plastic surgery can do this days, personal trainers, nutrition, help you build a great body, get expensive clothes, looks can be completely overriden by money. If i had a million bucks, id be a way better looking guy. Id have a trainer, a nutritionis, i might even get a bigger jaw, have a personal shopper who picks out the best in clothes for me, get 500 dollar hair cuts.

I know there are people with money, who have no idea how to utilize it to improve their lifes. however i think you are letting your current lack of money effect your viewpoint


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## Ivan AG (Sep 29, 2010)

tl;dr

Looks matter, but not to the same degree as personality.

On the other hand, you can NEVER convince me a Danny Devito clone will have the same chance as a male model with a 10/10 face/body just because he has a better personality.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> Keep in mind though, you and i live in two very different places. From what i gather from the news, things are not very good in Ohio. Its relative to what everyone has. Maybe at your age over there, no has anything.
> 
> I think that you are considering things from a very restricted get laid point of view. you ought to be considering it from a broader point of view in life in general. If you are meeting some one your age, and she doesnt want a house or children in her future, then wouldnt you be asking where am i going with her.
> 
> ...


I agree that the lifestyle attracts ANYONE regardless of the sex but it won't be what keeps them. If the guy has all this money and he gets _attention_ because of that--which is actually a rare percentage of men who stand out that much--but he is depressed and is a workaholic or something I can almost guarantee the women won't be satisfied because women are humans too and want emotional fulfillment in some way. Just because you are rich doesn't mean a woman will want to stay with you if you can't bring her the emotional fulfillment she wants. she'll dump your *** in time given her feeling lonely and unfulfilled. but be real, how many people you know that are rich, rich, rich? not that many unless you are from the Hamptons or some rich place then of course the people would be more picky because that's their demographic. But as soon as that pool boy comes along who switches all her buttons on, while the rich husband is an emotional and sexual depravity, you can bet she'll be more attracted to the pool boy.

I mean, what kind of money are we talking here? Like rich or average or what? Give me an example of what you mean exactly


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Ivan AG said:


> tl;dr
> 
> Looks matter, but not to the same degree as personality.
> 
> On the other hand, you can NEVER convince me a Danny Devito clone will have the same chance as a male model with a 10/10 face/body just because he has a better personality.


That's an extreme example. Most guys aren't chubby, balding, half-midgets like danny divito. Most guys are average in appearance and let themselves go


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

bwidger85 said:


> I agree that the lifestyle attracts ANYONE regardless of the sex but it won't be what keeps them. If the guy has all this money and he gets _attention_ because of that--which is actually a rare percentage of men who stand out that much--but he is depressed and is a workaholic or something I can almost guarantee the women won't be satisfied because women are humans too and want emotional fulfillment in some way. Just because you are rich doesn't mean a woman will want to stay with you if you can't bring her the emotional fulfillment she wants. she'll dump your *** in time given her feeling lonely and unfulfilled. but be real, how many people you know that are rich, rich, rich? not that many unless you are from the Hamptons or some rich place then of course the people would be more picky because that's their demographic. *But as soon as that pool boy comes along who switches all her buttons on, while the rich husband is an emotional and sexual depravity, you can bet she'll be more attracted to the pool boy.*
> 
> I mean, what kind of money are we talking here? Like rich or average or what? Give me an example of what you mean exactly


loool, made me think of the young gardener, in Desperate Housewives :b


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## RelinquishedHell (Apr 10, 2012)

Looks can only get your foot in the door, everything else beyond that you have to work towards.
No amount of rubbing dryer sheets on your clothes is gonna help you in that aspect.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr Bacon said:


> What makes you entitled to say your theory is correct? What gives you the right to say that?


The fact that its my opinion, and i am entitled to it. Its not a theory, its evolution.

Its good that you have access to such great resources, you will do well in life and with women, and when you do think of me, and how i was right


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> I agree that the lifestyle attracts ANYONE regardless of the sex but it won't be what keeps them. If the guy has all this money and he gets _attention_ because of that--which is actually a rare percentage of men who stand out that much-*-but he is depressed and is a workaholic* or something I can almost guarantee the women won't be satisfied because women are humans too and want emotional fulfillment in some way. *Just because you are rich doesn't mean a woman will want to stay with you if you can't bring her the emotional fulfillment she wants. * she'll dump your *** in time given her feeling lonely and unfulfilled. but be real, how many people you know that are rich, rich, rich? not that many unless you are from the Hamptons or some rich place then of course the people would be more picky because that's their demographic. *But as soon as that pool boy comes along who switches all her buttons on, while the rich husband is an emotional and sexual depravity, you can bet she'll be more attracted to the pool boy.*
> 
> I mean, what kind of money are we talking here? Like rich or average or what? Give me an example of what you mean exactly


Notice how many prejudices were included in your answers. Likely fueled by today's television, and pornography scenes. i assure you that not all well off educated people are depressed. In fact most people that i know make 6 figures+ work 9 to 5, and have tons of other hobbies as well.

I think that making a decent income which is six figures or higher can do wonders for your love life. Again there are guys on here that do, and don't get any. I once again point out that this forum is representative of individuals with SOCIAL ANXIETY and does not represent the population.

i am not even talking about a million dollars, i am talking about being above average, and being a good provider. I think women highly consider that an important trait. How do i know this, i dont have to. I only have to look at evolution, and evolution clearly tells us that men who were able to feed women (During times of scarcity of food) were the ones able to ensure survival of their genes.

I think a guy with a career is also a great boost. I have worked with guys who dont make a lot, and men who do, and there is a huge difference in Confidence.

I never discounted the factor of Confidence, i dont know why you guys are saying i did. I only mentioned that CONFIDENCE was a cumulative factor of elements such as looking good, being wealthy, having social value, experience etc.

Also its important to note, i am not talking about being a player or getting laid. These things are indifferent to me. If i was to meet a girl who had sex in the parking lot, i would have seriously question her wife materialness. Women who are good wife materials and exhibit keeper characteristics are not that easy to come by.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> Notice how many prejudices were included in your answers. Likely fueled by today's television, and pornography scenes. i assure you that not all well off educated people are depressed. In fact most people that i know make 6 figures+ work 9 to 5, and have tons of other hobbies as well.
> 
> I think that making a decent income which is six figures or higher can do wonders for your love life. Again there are guys on here that do, and don't get any. I once again point out that this forum is representative of individuals with SOCIAL ANXIETY and does not represent the population.
> 
> ...


OK, so if a woman has an option to choose between two men who are equal with everything besides money (equal in personality, looks, confidence but one was poor and the other wealthy) then of course she'd probably want the guy who has lots of money. Notice this is no different if it was a man comparing two women of the same scenario, so clearly this isn't a male/female thing. However, I do agree that women want men who can provide for them and aren't losers. I don't think men care as much about women providing for them as much as some women do, but in our society there are also plenty of independent women who are more than capable of taking care of themselves and don't need men for money. I do agree that biologically it makes sense women would want a man who can support her in all aspects, not just money-wise.

We also need to take into consideration the fact that not all personalities align with each other and things beyond depression are taking place. Two happy people can still hate each other and won't want to get together regardless of how sexy or wealthy they are. You give the impression that money is somehow more important than chemistry or bonding with someone, which is false, I'm sorry, UNLESS the woman is a gold digger and using him for money, which really isn't a relationship at all and the woman will likely be completely unsatisfied emotionally with the man. The dude can look good and have tons of cash and be happy but that STILL doesn't mean the woman will want him over someone of lessor abundance simply because there is no chemistry or connection between them. It's like how you wouldn't date a model looking girl if you felt there was no chemistry--you may very briefly and then lose interest fast is what is likely to happen.


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> OK, so if a woman has an option to choose between two men who are equal with everything besides money (equal in personality, looks, confidence but one was poor and the other wealthy) then of course she'd probably want the guy who has lots of money. Notice this is no different if it was a man comparing two women of the same scenario, so clearly this isn't a male/female thing. However, I do agree that women want men who can provide for them and aren't losers. I don't think men care as much about women providing for them as much as some women do, but in our society there are also plenty of independent women who are more than capable of taking care of themselves and don't need men for money. I do agree that biologically it makes sense women would want a man who can support her in all aspects, not just money-wise.
> 
> We also need to take into consideration the fact that not all personalities align with each other and things beyond depression are taking place. Two happy people can still hate each other and won't want to get together regardless of how sexy or wealthy they are. You give the impression that money is somehow more important than chemistry or bonding with someone, which is false, I'm sorry, UNLESS the woman is a gold digger and using him for money, which really isn't a relationship at all and the woman will likely be completely unsatisfied emotionally with the man. The dude can look good and have tons of cash and be happy but that STILL doesn't mean the woman will want him over someone of lessor abundance simply because there is no chemistry or connection between them. It's like how you wouldn't date a model looking girl if you felt there was no chemistry--you may very briefly and then lose interest fast is what is likely to happen.


Ah, but you have ignored the common denominator. What is Chemistry? Chemistry is a persons feelings wouldnt you say. How we feel about others has to do with what they can do for us. I believe its either you or Rymo who said this in the other thread as well. All human beings are interested in what the other party can do for us. When this is significant, feelings develop.

So who is to say Gold Diggers and Trophy wife hunters dont fall in love with each other since feelings are the result of what we want. So lets take looks for example.

A woman is more likely to fall in love with a man whose physical appearance is beautiful. its not lust, its chemistry, now when asked she will say I LOVE HIM FOR WHO HE IS, but the underlying factors maybe different, and they may lie in the unconscious.

If i gave the impression that money is more important then love, then that was not my intent. I agree Love is more important, but falling in love is not how Disney tells us it is. It is rather a cumulative factor of what the other person can do for us, how similar we are, how familiar we are, etc.

I agree with most things in this thread, I think that in hindsight it doesnt require a lot to get a girl, a beautiful one at that. I think we have to learn to play the numbers game and get intent out there. What we need, is to define what confidence is. I dont think we have dont that. What is confidence is the true question, once we define it, we can begin to gather on where and how it comes from.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> Ah, but you have ignored the common denominator. What is Chemistry? Chemistry is a persons feelings wouldnt you say. How we feel about others has to do with what they can do for us. I believe its either you or Rymo who said this in the other thread as well. All human beings are interested in what the other party can do for us. When this is significant, feelings develop.
> 
> So who is to say Gold Diggers and Trophy wife hunters dont fall in love with each other since feelings are the result of what we want. So lets take looks for example.
> 
> ...


I agree that chemistry or bonding can happen later after getting to know someone, but I think most people wouldn't really be excited to date someone who they at first had zero chemistry with. I think the building a connection overtime regardless of how much they didn't like each other at first thing is pretty rare and it probably happens more when people are forced to be around each other like work or something. Usually most girls wouldn't date a guy who she thought she couldn't connect with unless her intentions were purely sexual or using him for something else. Yes, feelings can develop overtime but I would think it is rare people even would put themselves in a position trying to date someone if they didn't initially feel like they would get along. This instance is rare in my opinion and takes more persuasion or forced interaction for it to happen than normal as the two really won't want to be around each other.

I've answered confidence a lot on this forum. Confidence is fluid, meaning it changes depending on experience, how you think and what you do. You can lose confidence even though you once had it and then you can gain it back. You can be confident person even though you know in a certain instance you'll be not confident because the confident person realizes that he/she has the ability to gain confidence in what ever area they put their attention to. I am a confident person because I know I gain confidence in things I put dedicated time and focus on regardless of how insecure I am at first. Confidence, in this regard, is also known as situational confidence, meaning you can be confident in one thing and not confident in another but these things can change in the future.

Regarding why confidence is attractive to women: confidence is attractive to most people because it opposite of weak and unsure. People have a harder time trusting, believing and listening to insecure people because insecure people tend not to believe it themselves and are unsure. Confidence is sexy because it displayed strength, fortitude, experience and all that good stuff people like other people to be so they can trust, believe, and feel safe with.

I'm sure there are other examples why confidence is important but I just randomly blurted this stuff out...


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

You can also argue lack of chemistry or connection and being repelled by that is also biologically driven because it ensure lack of support and/or contribution to help each other in times of need, so your idea of thinking women will want someone because of money regardless if they get along or not can be disputed biologically as well 

I personally believe people align themselves with other people driven by the deepest reasons of biology. So yeah, you can be the most desired person in people magazine but if she doesn't like you when she meets you because of lack of connection or chemistry or w/e then biologically she can be protecting herself from aligning herself with someone who won't work in her favor type thing ;P


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> I personally believe people don't align themselves with other people driven by the deepest reasons of biology.


On the contrary all factors of attraction are actually based on biological needs. True Story. In fact for the longest time it was believed that human beings didnt have pheremones, now it is widely accepted that we do have pheremones, and that they are used widely by women on an unconcious level.

All needs are biological, because human beings are 100 % biological

Furthermore all human being decisions are made primarily on an unconcious level.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> On the contrary all factors of attraction are actually based on biological needs. True Story. In fact for the longest time it was believed that human beings didnt have pheremones, now it is widely accepted that we do have pheremones, and that they are used widely by women on an unconcious level.
> 
> All needs are biological, because human beings are 100 % biological
> 
> Furthermore all human being decisions are made primarily on an unconcious level.


That's a typo on my part. I mean to say I DO believe most people align themselves because of biology. Sorry. going to have to edit that


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't buy into psychoevolutionary theory and other biological arguments.

Gay people can't even reproduce ffs. There's no biological point to being gay. Why are there people who are gay or bisexual?

I don't think it's a case of "zomg he's so confident and full of social status and tall, I'm unconsciously wet. I want his DNA in me!!!" 

I think a lot of our preferences are culturally determined. For eg. In Europe where people are not so obsessed with height as the United States (and to a lesser extent Canada. Canada is always like in between the US and Europe on issues), it's less unusual for women to be dating shorter men there or guys who are their height or not much taller than them. The height obsession is more pronounced in Anglo-Celt culture. American CEOs are also taller than European CEOs even though American men aren't any taller than European men (shorter than some of the Northern Europeans even). Girls in Europe are more open-minded. It's not about psycho-evolutionary bull****.

Next thing you know, you're gonna tell me that the preference for white girls to date white guys is biologically determined. Meanwhile there is a minority of white girls who love black guys and sometimes have sex with nothing but black guys.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

^I'm not just talking about height; I'm talking about stuff like aligning yourself to others because of mutual interests and personalities and yada yada yada. I also think cultures are an influence.

Anyway, everything we do comes down to survival obviously so of course it's biologically driven. everything

buuuut what do i know? I'm just some SAS troll :roll


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> ^I'm not just talking about height; I'm talking about stuff like aligning yourself to others because of mutual interests and personalities and yada yada yada. I also think cultures are an influence.
> 
> Anyway, everything we do comes down to survival obviously so of course it's biologically driven. everything
> 
> buuuut what do i know? I'm just some SAS troll :roll


Heigth is huge though,If i was 4 inches taller my life would have gone very differently, unfortunately at 5'7 i stand


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> Heigth is huge though,If i was 4 inches taller my life would have gone very differently, unfortunately at 5'7 i stand


EXCUSE. You're 5'7 and you're going to blame that on you not meeting any girls? There is way, way more than that. Until you show me what you've done to prove 5'7 is the reason then you are unsuccessful with girls then you are using excuses


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

bwidger85 said:


> EXCUSE. You're 5'7 and you're going to blame that on you not meeting any girls? There is way, way more than that. Until you show me what you've done to prove 5'7 is the reason then you are unsuccessful with girls then you are using excuses


well its a factor certainly, never the less


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

For the record, I am 5' 11", and I don't have any luck with girls. So it's not necessarily because of your height.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeeshan said:


> well its a factor certainly, never the less


sry man, last post of mine may of came off as a tad harsh. may be a slight factor but sincerely doubt that's the main reason. anyway...


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## PaysageDHiver (Jun 18, 2011)

Dryer sheet tip is money. Cheap option, and it gives a fresh smell that's better than body spray or cologne.


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## rdrr (Dec 31, 2008)

PaysageDHiver said:


> Dryer sheet tip is money. Cheap option, and it gives a fresh smell that's better than body spray or cologne.


Dryer sheets have cancer causing toxins, and I have stopped using them. Not sure I would want to use them in this capacity as well.


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## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Deodorant also has cancer-causing toxins. Everything does. It's ridiculous


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> Deodorant also has cancer-causing toxins. Everything does. It's ridiculous


Deodrant also masks a male's natural pheromones.


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

I hate rich good looking guys, there is always something wrong with them :x


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

tbyrfan said:


> Rich or poor, good-looking or not, the world is full of jerks.  Just gotta keep searching for nice people, they're out there!


Yes, of course they are


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## AustinAnxiety (Jun 21, 2012)

SnowFlakesFire said:


> Yes, of course they are


 your right! Too bad most people think looks are important! D :


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## Zeeshan (Sep 4, 2011)

SnowFlakesFire said:


> Yes, of course they are


You all talk about nice guys but you are all super attracted to arrogant jerks. You will friendzone the nice guy like that!


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## SnowFlakesFire (Aug 23, 2012)

Zeeshan said:


> You all talk about nice guys but you are all super attracted to arrogant jerks. You will friendzone the nice guy like that!


:roll

I have friendzoned zero guys, guys are not so good friends, lol

Actually my boyfriends are just those nice guys and meanwhile looking for one nice guy more only jerks are available. Nice guys are all taken


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