# What does therapy actually 'do'?



## anonymous259 (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm asking people who have done therapy how therapy actually helps and what it does to improve SA. I am considering going to therapy but part of me thinks that it won't help, as I will still lack friends =/ I'm not sure if it would actually solve anything, except maybe improve depression. I honestly have no idea though.

I'd love to here of you therapy experience (including the type of therapy you had and your SA severity) so I can try and understand how it works


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## sherbert (Jun 24, 2005)

Therapists will have a broad range of methods that they will attempt. Frankly, if they claim they are of a particular school, that is a red-flag. It's fine if they say (for example) Humanism to be their preferred method, but only in conjunction with others. 


No, going to a therapist will not get you friends. Maybe things that you discuss there will entice you to seek them out, but recovery and maintenance is largely up to you. What A therapist does is listen and provides insight into your issues.They are bound by law to keep any information that you discuss, outside of the immediate risk to harm others or yourself.


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## justagirl9 (Jun 13, 2010)

I wish I could see a real psychiatrist like in the movies or something. Where I live we have one mental health place. I've been there twice in the last 5 years. Apparently I'm not bad enough (ha) to get the 1 psychiatrist they have on staff. The first time they gave me a counselor fresh out of college. She was nice but she was so inexperienced that she said things like "oh, I read about your problem in a book". Plus I wasn't ready. Then last year I saw a male counselor. I only went because my job go to so overwhelming I needed help. He only ended up insulting and hitting on me. Plus he said I would have to see him 2-3X a week ($100 a pop) for months before I'd be prescribed anything. I guess because he had to get someone else to do it. So I feel like even that option is out for me.


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

CBT (the most common form of therapy for anxiety disorders) is based around the simple understanding that your thoughts, actions, and feelings are all connected, and reinforce each other. For example, you think you aren't cool enough to be at a club. You go to a club and feel extremely anxious. This reaffirms your belief that you don't belong in clubs, so you avoid going to them, allowing your thoughts to dominate your understanding of you and clubs.

CBT attempts to break this cycle in two ways.

First: Your negative thought patterns are changed. Depending on how long you've had anxiety and how severe it is, this can be incredibly difficult. Not only does it take a lot of willpower at a time where you feel panicky, but it takes unrelenting persistence. In addition, the process of changing your thinking takes a while, requires a constant effort, and does not yield many noticeable results until well into the therapy session.

Second: You force yourself into anxiety provoking situations in order to replace outlandish thinking with reality. Needless to say, this requires a lot of effort and can be quite uncomfortable.

Will therapy give you friends? No, but why don't you have friends in the first place? Unable to reach out to people? Have a hard time getting comfortable with acquaintances? Unsure of how people will like you? The belief is, that by changing your negative thought patterns your anxiety will dissipate and making friends will be just as natural as with anyone else.

All in all, therapy is expensive, takes a while (at least a couple months, although some people have cited years), takes a ton of effort, and takes persistence. However, if you're looking for a truly permanent solution, therapy is the way to go. Good luck!


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## anonymous259 (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks for the information everyone  I understand what sort of thing to expect now. From what I gather, its not an overnight fix and takes a lot of work from the patient. Does medication help improve it at all?


Healthcare's free here so money isn't an issue, its just summoning the courage to actually go


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

I've never tried an SSRI, so I am not speaking from experience. SSRIs are a good option if therapy just isn't enough. I've always been turned off from the idea because I don't see it as a permanent solution and don't like the idea of thinking, socializing, and existing through the filters of a drug. Needless to say, I'm stubborn, biased, and close minded about medication, but thats just me


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

justagirl9 said:


> I wish I could see a real psychiatrist like in the movies or something. Where I live we have one mental health place. I've been there twice in the last 5 years. Apparently I'm not bad enough (ha) to get the 1 psychiatrist they have on staff. The first time they gave me a counselor fresh out of college. She was nice but she was so inexperienced that she said things like "oh, I read about your problem in a book". Plus I wasn't ready. Then last year I saw a male counselor. I only went because my job go to so overwhelming I needed help. He only ended up insulting and hitting on me. Plus he said I would have to see him 2-3X a week ($100 a pop) for months before I'd be prescribed anything. I guess because he had to get someone else to do it. So I feel like even that option is out for me.


psychiatrists are ****ty counselors the whole point of becoming a psychiatrist is so you dont have to be a counselor. clinical psychologists are best. i have one and hes ok.


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

wxolue said:


> I've never tried an SSRI, so I am not speaking from experience. SSRIs are a good option if therapy just isn't enough. I've always been turned off from the idea because I don't see it as a permanent solution and don't like the idea of thinking, socializing, and existing through the filters of a drug. Needless to say, I'm stubborn, biased, and close minded about medication, but thats just me


and me.


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## donavan (Jun 23, 2010)

i had 3 different types of therapy:

1)counselling
2)cbt
3)nlp/hypnosis

1) completely useless for overcoming SA. had about 5 sessions of just talking to somebody. got me absolutely no were. the only use for counselling is to feel like you have somebody to support you and listen to you and you can get things off your chest .

2)this works by helping you to look at your past and change the thinking processes that you developed as a result of your past. this changing of thinking helps to lessen your anxiety which makes it easier for you to behave in better ways . this was quite useful but the changes were quite slow

3)this works fast and only requires a few sessions. when a social phobic is in a social situation they experience a phobic response. the reason for this is their unconcious mind filters the experience differently to normal people due to the social phobic having different memories and beleifs , than normal people, stored in their uncocnious mind. this works by fxing the fault in the unconcious mind so that in future when in a social situation the person has a different response i.e a rational response instead of an irrational phobic response


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## Chri588 (Jun 26, 2010)

I see a councellor and a psycotherapist who gives lectures. Have only been to two sessions so far so it's a bit early to tell if it helps. I think it may help eventually but i suppose it has different effects on different people. 

At the moment, my councellor and I are going over 'triggers', how I react, and then what usually is the outcome. Next week we are going to discuss how to change my thinking and behaviour to try and see what I could do in situations differently. He has given me some usefull advice and have learnt a few things about myself, but I don't feel my SA has improved yet.

The lectures are covering ways to calm myself when my SA gets bad. I was very nervous about going to these because there is other people there but It is a good way of getting some 'exposure therapy' and i find that it is never as bad as I worry it will be. Again I've learnt a few things but like the man says he's only giving me the tools to fight this but its up to me to get out there and work at it.

My SA is quite bad but im going to keep going to these people. I think you should give it a try because you have nothing to lose and you may find that it helps, but like I said it probably effects different people in different ways and also the therapists probably have their own methods for dealing with this.

Good luck


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## rctriplefresh5 (Aug 24, 2009)

donavan said:


> i had 3 different types of therapy:
> 
> 1)counselling
> 2)cbt
> ...


cbt involves flooding and such right>? exposing you to fears.


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## donavan (Jun 23, 2010)

rctriplefresh5 said:


> cbt involves flooding and such right>? exposing you to fears.


o right


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## drealm (Jul 7, 2009)

It drains you're wallet and gives you a placebo effect for the hour or so you're in the session. Right as you step out the door, you realize you've been duped. Or if you're stupid like me, you reschedule to blow another check.

You'd think from this I'd be against therapy. I'm not really. I just don't think therapy is cost effective. If you can get therapy for free or are rich, then go.

But if you're poor, it's the equivalent of spending hard earned cash on voodoo, witchcraft, fortune tellers, ect. Except this is a legally certified scam that provides a temporary relief.

Group therapy is probably more cost effective and provides a longer high.


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## fallingdownonmyface (Dec 3, 2006)

waste of time. sometimes it helps i guess.


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## wxolue (Nov 26, 2008)

Although i think anxiety is intended for more than a short high (I think it performs this way too), I will concede that it is expensive. For people without health insurance, sometimes it simply is not an option, which is a serious problem.


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## rickey (Jun 22, 2010)

right now im seeing a personal counselor. Besides my SA i have other emotional problems, so those two things are what i talk about. This is the time to think out loud. Because I dont that enough I try to do this at least twice a week. I feel relieved talking about what bothers me. Cause now someone else knows these things, and that someone doesnt judge me at all, and could maybe help in some way. Thats what I get out of it.


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

donavan said:


> i had 3 different types of therapy:
> 
> 1)counselling
> 2)cbt
> ...


How does option 3 work? I want to go through this but exactly how? Do you listen to tapes? Or what?


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## RobAlister (Apr 4, 2010)

Well I don't believe I've ever had therapy but I have been to a psychiatric facility before. It's not for me. I find it much better to discuss it with other people who know what I'm going through. Like this website for example.


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## donavan (Jun 23, 2010)

Positive said:


> How does option 3 work? I want to go through this but exactly how? Do you listen to tapes? Or what?


well it works like this . when in a social situation you have a certain response (i.e phobic response) and the reason for this is that your mind percieves the events in a certain way. the goal is to get you to have a completely new response to the same situation and you do this by making your mind percieve it differently.

nlp/hypnosis allows you access to your mind in order to change the fault that is making you percive the situation irrationally .

you can use tapes and cds and things like that or you can see a therapist or use both. i like to use both. therapy usually only lasts for 1 session , no more than 2. after that i use cds at home. you can also get cds that do the exact same thing that a therpay session would do

a therapy session is all about getting your mind to percieve the event differently.

cd's are usually to help you build new habits and become the new you and are designed for you to use over a long period of time

a therapy session usually involves time line therapy and/or the nlp fast phobia fast phobia cure. both of these techniques work by releasing the fear from certain memoires that you have that casued the phobia in the 1st place

cd's at home usually contain things like suggestions and beleif installing, self image visualizations, modelling vizualisations, mental rehearsal etc...


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

"this works fast and only requires a few sessions."

You may feel that such a therapy worked fast for you. But it should be clearly stated that that is not necessarily what would happen with everyone who went for such a course of therapy. It is not a cure and will not work the same for every single person. For some people, it may not work at all.

"when a social phobic is in a social situation they experience a phobic response. the reason for this is their unconcious mind filters the experience differently to normal people due to the social phobic having different memories and beleifs , than normal people, stored in their uncocnious mind."

To some extent, we've had this argument. And we're never going to agree. But with respect, the idea that these so called "normal people" all have unconscious minds who filter the experience of socialising in a different way to the unconscious minds of a "social phobic" is a massive, sweeping and dangerous assumption. There could be any number of reasons why a person has that response in social situations. If they have self hatred going on then how they react to and act in social situations may well have little to do with how their "unconscious mind" (part of a model of the mind. A way of explaining the mind. Other models include: wider mind and pinpoint awareness, conscious mind, subconscious mind, super-conscious mind....model of the mind. Way of explaining the mind) is filtering the experience.

"this works by fxing the fault in the unconcious mind so that in future when in a social situation the person has a different response i.e a rational response instead of an irrational phobic response".

Assuming the existence of a "fault" in the "unconscious mind" is a sweeping and dangerous assumption. This approach seems to rely on creating a metaphor that the mind is some sort of broken TV set or computer and you just go inside and change one or two things and everything begins to run normally again. Well, for a start, there's no such thing as "normal" and the healing process is there to improve quality of life and personal happiness, not change people into some idea of what a "normal" person should be. People with phobias or SA are not broken or defective. They have problems and so do lots of the so called "normal" people out there.

Plus, as has been discussed on my psychotherapy course (not an authority on things necessarily but mentioned here to give some insight into alternative views) it can sometimes be far better to treat the behaviour and then give the individual the chance to re-align themselves and begin a healing process that was being stopped by the constant maintenance of behaviour that was harmful to the person or without a good purpose. The whole "fault in the mind" approach sounds a bit like the search for and worship of an assumed "cause" for all the problems. As if removing this one thing will make everything ok again. Now, sometimes, maybe that does work for some people. But there could be loads of different things causing what might outwardly look like one problem and a lot of the time people assume that something is causing something, only to discover during the healing process that it was actually something different causing the problem.

Therapy really needs to take account of the "system", not just the mind. A lot of people on here think that I'm constantly going on about it being "all in people's heads". That's not true. I challenge negativity where I see it to see if doing so can prompt other people to challenge their own negativity and give themselves room to breathe or get a decent night's sleep and maybe begin their own healing process.

The healing process has to work with the system as a whole. Body and mind are linked. I've used it before but the example holds: I broke my arm and was in a lot of pain. The doctor's didn't sit there going: "oh, it's your mind causing the whole problem. Here's some pain killers to stop that horrible fault in your mind from causing you pain". No, they gave me pain killers and fixed the arm too. Because, guess what, to some degree, that pain I was feeling was a message shouting at me saying: "fix your arm".

Last time I used that example, I was reminded that SA is a mental problem. True. But it's a mental problem with lots of potential causes and a whole heap of physical manifestations too. If the doctors, when I'd broken my arm, had just fixed the arm and not given me pain killers, I'd have been in agony every waking moment. But they didn't just assume that the problem was localised in one part of the system. They didn't just decide to treat the thing the assumed was the problem. The treated more than one area and didn't assume that "oh, this is a physical problem because he's broken a bone so we only need to focus on physical things". The system needed to heal as a whole.


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## donavan (Jun 23, 2010)

joinmartin said:


> "this works fast and only requires a few sessions."
> 
> You may feel that such a therapy worked fast for you. But it should be clearly stated that that is not necessarily what would happen with everyone who went for such a course of therapy. It is not a cure and will not work the same for every single person. For some people, it may not work at all.
> 
> ...


_*Assuming the existence of a "fault" in the "unconscious mind" is a sweeping and dangerous assumption. This approach seems to rely on creating a metaphor that the mind is some sort of broken TV set or computer and you just go inside and change one or two things and everything begins to run normally again. Well, for a start, there's no such thing as "normal" and the healing process is there to improve quality of life and personal happiness, not change people into some idea of what a "normal" person should be. People with phobias or SA are not broken or defective. They have problems and so do lots of the so called "normal" people out there. *_

if a person has a completely IRRATIONAL response to a nromal everyday situation, a situation that most people respond normally to, and the reason for this response is becasue of the way their unconcious mind filters the event then i think its fair to say that their is a fault in their unconcious mind, i dont know any other way to put it.
every nlp practionaire ive come across compares the unconcious mind to a computer and nlp is the tools that enable you to fix any problem that lies there. paul mckenna, one of the worlds best nlp p[ractionaires, says exactly that. tony robbins is another one. who are you gonna take more seriously and who are you going to listen to in a debate about nlp ? you or the likes of paul mckenna and tony robbins? hhhmmmmm thats a hard one

_*To some extent, we've had this argument. And we're never going to agree. But with respect, the idea that these so called "normal people" all have unconscious minds who filter the experience of socialising in a different way to the unconscious minds of a "social phobic" is a massive, sweeping and dangerous assumption. There could be any number of reasons why a person has that response in social situations. If they have self hatred going on then how they react to and act in social situations may well have little to do with how their "unconscious mind" (part of a model of the mind. A way of explaining the mind. Other models include: wider mind and pinpoint awareness, conscious mind, subconscious mind, super-conscious mind....model of the mind. Way of explaining the mind) is filtering the experience.*_

for some reason you dont seem to beleive that the unconcious mind and the memories and beleifs that are held their are the casue of social anxiety and you dont see to accept that people filter reality through their unconcious mind. 
that is very strange considering that even scientists will back up my last point , and as for my 1st point i also find that very strange considering you are actually trained in hypnosis 
so my question to you is - WHAT CAUSES SOCIAL ANXIETY ?

_*The healing process has to work with the system as a whole. Body and mind are linked. I've used it before but the example holds: I broke my arm and was in a lot of pain. The doctor's didn't sit there going: "oh, it's your mind causing the whole problem. Here's some pain killers to stop that horrible fault in your mind from causing you pain". No, they gave me pain killers and fixed the arm too. Because, guess what, to some degree, that pain I was feeling was a message shouting at me saying: "fix your arm".*_

i honestly dont get this metaphor. the reason you are in pain is becasue the arm is broken. if the arm wasnt broken the pain would not be there. the broken arm is the CAUSE of the problem
their is a cause for SA and the cause is int he mind. SA might also produce physical problems like blushing , shaking etc... but they are the effect of the mind, the mind is the casue of them.
here's a better metaphor for you:

_if you look at your shadow on the pavement and then go over to it and grab a hold of it and try to move it , will it move? of course not, thats ridiculous. however if you move your actual arm the shadow automatically follows.

_that is why things like medication never work. becasue the medication trys to move the actual shadow so to speak instead of moving the actual arm.
for a problem like SA there is a definitive cause and that cause must be dealt with in order to fix the problem


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## LostPancake (Apr 8, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> the idea that these so called "normal people" all have unconscious minds who filter the experience of socialising in a different way to the unconscious minds of a "social phobic" is a massive, sweeping and dangerous assumption.


How so? Isn't that the underlying assumption behind cognitive therapy? ie that your negative interpretation of events (often unconscious) is what causes distress?

And as I understand it, NLP is just trying to change some of those core beliefs that are buried so deeply you're not even aware of them.

Although I liked what I read in this cognitive therapy workbook recently - it's not about replacing negative thoughts with positive ones. But just being more aware of the different possible interpretations of events, and of how your mind often jumps to negative conclusions based on flimsy evidence. Which is an unconscious filtering of events.

I guess my concern with NLP would be that you could end up just replacing your overly negative filters with overly positive ones, and end up being out of touch with reality. You'd be 'happier', but still out of touch with people. So I like the approach of cognitive therapy - it's based on looking at the actual evidence, not just declaring something to be true.


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## BuzzAldrin (Jun 20, 2010)

I had CBT for about 9 months last year. It did help quite a bit, I allowed me to understand my negative thoughts and how they affect my behaviours. It also helped me to drop some of my 'safety behaviours' which has lessened my anxiety. 
So therapy did help my SA but not to the point where I could feel completely comfortable in social situations. Basically, I can walk down the street without looking at the ground and answer the phone witness less anxiety. 
I think it's worth doing, but bare in mind it takes time and most likely won't 'cure' your anxiety completely.


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## donavan (Jun 23, 2010)

joinmartin said:


> "if a person has a completely IRRATIONAL response to a nromal everyday situation, a situation that most people respond normally to, and the reason for this response is becasue of the way their unconcious mind filters the event then i think its fair to say that their is a fault in their unconcious mind, i dont know any other way to put it."
> 
> With respect, it assumes the existence of a normal person, it assumes that other people in general respond to this situation "normally" and then it goes on to assuming that the reason this person doesn't respond "normally" is because of the way their unconscious mind filters the event and then assumes that there has to be a fault in the individual's unconscious mind.
> 
> ...


i think it's fitting that i begin this post by quoting 3 totally ridiculous comments from yourself in order to highlight to other people what utter clap trap comes out of your mouth and hopefully to convince others not to listen to anything that comes out of your mouth regarding nlp and hypnosis as you obviously dont know what you are talking about in general. so here we go:

_*You could argue the cause of the shadow is the arm or that the shadow is the cause of the arm*_

ok time for a debate . anyone on this forum please vote. is the movement of your arm caused by the movement of your shadow? how many people voted yes ? 0% o what a surprise

_*In other words: stop the person having a panic attack before they die or collapse and then work with them on other issues too*_

eeerrr how many people have died from a panic attack

_*If someone is on the floor having a panic attack then you don't go inside their mind and "fix" something you've decided must be a "fault". You stop them from dying and then help them make the changes they want to make*_.

:rofli wasnt aware that people died from having a panic attack. thanks for making me laugh though

im not even gonna reply to the rest of your thread, apart from one comment, cos its basically all a load of clap trap and your only gonna answer back to my replys with even more claptrap, so i might as well just save my breath and let you beleive what you want to beleive

_*I've listened to what you've had to say, thought about it and appreciated it and I respectfully disagree on many points. Some points are open for further thinking but I'm standing by my opinion. Doesn't make it correct. But I will stand by what I think.*_

yes but what is your opinion? you havent given it. you keep dodging my question and refuse to give a straight answe to it
you know my opinion, ive told you it. i beleive social anxiety is caused by unconcious beleifs and memories , thats my opinion. what is yours though? ''there are many different causes to SA'' is not a straight answer so i will ask you again :

*what SPECIFICALLY is the casue of social anxiety? could i please have a response to that ?


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## donavan (Jun 23, 2010)

LostPancake said:


> How so? Isn't that the underlying assumption behind cognitive therapy? ie that your negative interpretation of events (often unconscious) is what causes distress?
> 
> And as I understand it, NLP is just trying to change some of those core beliefs that are buried so deeply you're not even aware of them.
> 
> ...


couldnt have put it better myself lostpancake :yes


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## QuackQuack (Mar 18, 2008)

donavan said:


> 3)nlp/hypnosis
> 
> 3)this works fast and only requires a few sessions. when a social phobic is in a social situation they experience a phobic response. the reason for this is their unconcious mind filters the experience differently to normal people due to the social phobic having different memories and beleifs , than normal people, stored in their uncocnious mind. this works by fxing the fault in the unconcious mind so that in future when in a social situation the person has a different response i.e a rational response instead of an irrational phobic response


So this actually worked for you?


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## Positive (Jun 29, 2009)

^^I'm wondering too... Trying to listen to tapes, but seems like a genetic thing.


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