# Nardil Augmentation - Please leave your comments, suggestions.



## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

For me, Xanax and Klonopin do not work quite the same as they do on Nardil. It may have to do with the way Nardil already inhibits that GABA enzyme? I actually believe I need less klonopin, and xanax know that I am on a MAOI, because it messes with it's effects, is that true for other people? I know it is for some. For me Nardil takes away the anti anxiety properties of benzo's and just makes me sedated. Blah.

On the other hand, I think Lyrica is the best augmentator. It is very easy to get, I had a doc throw it at me, it is FAST ACTING, and some say it make you feel like your on GHB on high doses(GHB I read is awesome for anxiety, but illegal and highly addictive). Low doses don't do nothing but sedate you, and make you feel out of it. But when you get into the 400-600mg range it actually SPEEDS you up, give you EUPHORIA, and actually for me totally changes the WAY I FEEL. The first few days, you may fall asleep on a high dose because it can be sedating before it turns to stimulating, thats why it is best to start at 100mg and go up. 

But it is not without side effects, I feel dizyness, If you take it you will probably feel like your stoned, and some may people may comment that your eyes look glazed- like they do me, also for some reason you eat like a pig (Does anyone else get this effect).. The eating part is good for me, because it takes away my nausea (I have a vomiting disorder called- Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome. But, it is a pretty benign drug and really easy to get. All you have to do is say that you have some nerve pain, or fibormyalgia, that is easy for a doc to believe because people with fibro are alway depressed. And if your depressed you might feel some pain, I know I do. I think that is why they advertise cymbalta for pain. Actually it has been approved in EUROPE for General Anxiety Disorder I think, and also been recommended for Social Anxiety, I read many people approve of it for SA, like PHDS in many books, and med sites like pub med, and using google scholar I found this information.

If your psychatrist has heard of it he might prescribe it for social anxiety or GAD, psychs used to give out it's little brother neurotin (which is no way as good I think). I have not tried neurotin though..does anyone know if it works as good as lyrica for anxiety? I know it was used for mood stablization. But, many people said that it overprescribed, and not good for the reasons they were giving it out like Bipolar, it was not clinically effect. Some compared it to a sugar pill. Lyrica is scheduled and NOOO way a sugar pill, take some and you will see! woah.

Like I believe I said it's pretty easy to get from a regular doctor, or registered nurse. Most doctors love this drug, as my doctor does. I hope they don't find out it can get you high for a bit on large doses (although the high goes away) because I am afraid that they will take it away or move it up to a higher schedule. Too much people are telling there doctor that this drug makes them stoned and are ruining it for the people who need it.

Beware getting off it, there is mild WD when coming it, less that benzo WD though, If you can handle benzo WD you can deff handle getting off lyrica. I heard of some people going to PSYCH WARD because they were freaking out when they stopped taking it...BABIES!! People should know that meds cause physical dependence. You should never get of medication without consulting your doctor anyways. Yes you will feel a little sick, and want to vomit. Low doses are easy as cake though, but if your on a dose high is me (400mg -600mg) then you will have to taper. I had no problems with tappering down within just a week, some nausea, and a little depression.

Your doctor may start you off at a low dose maybe, 25mg twice a day, or 50mg, twice a day. If you like it, demand more say it works well. I started off at at least 100mg, and worked my way up too 200mg, for a complete change in behavior, attitude, altered consious, changed thinking try 400mg. The max is 600mg, that is a little hard to get that is why I only get 400mg from my doc. But, when I feel like changing my mood and ablerterating(sp?) anxiety I take 600mg one day, and 200mg the next so I don't run out early.
It seriously alters how you feel in every way, your personality, your thoughts, your speech(chat, chat, chat), and you walk different at first (watch those walls!).

By the way it is also totted as NON-ADDICTING, they will even give it to substance abuser for some reason, although it is scheduled but I think it's a lower lever than even benzos?

My doctor will not prescribe Ritalin, or Adderal XR, because they are highly contradicted and some say here it is a recipe for disaster. You don't want to go to the hospital. I went behind my PDOC back and got some Adderal, I tried it with Nardil a couple times (maybe like 4) I did not get any hypertension even at doses 40mg of adderal xr, but now looking back it was not a good idea, and I and you don't want to risk it getting hypertension, and I didn't want my doctor find out I was taking without his knowledge so I stopped. Does anyone else do, or ever took a stimulant without the doc that give you MAOI's knowing? If you really want to try adderal xr make sure you doctor knows don't do what I did! I hope he don't find out about it. Do you think he will find out, I see him today, and I don't want him to take it away yet.

If you doctor is well versed in MAOIS, and has read many studies, you might get a low dose of dexedrine which is like adderal, but has one amphetamine salt, instead of four, I think this is why it is less dangerous BUT ACTUALLY A LOT MORE POTENT for some people. I still think it's dangerous.

Even Provigil is contradicted and a doctor who is not versed in MAOI probablly will not perscibe that either. I really want to try PROVIGIL.. do you think it is a stupid idea to order progvigil online, because it is less risky? I probably wont. But I really want to try modnafil..because Nardil give me HEAVY sedation,and hypotension . I think Provigil is less dangerous than the highly scheduled amphetamines, and dopamine antagonist. 

Do you think Provigil/Modnafil it will help with Sedation, Concentration, and hypotension that Nardil gives me, if so I really want provigil. But, still probably would not take it with out caution it still effect some of the same receptors as Anti Depressant and Stims, which are not allowed I think, right?

I would not personally augment it with lamictal, lithium, or any antipsychotic, unless I was bipolar or heard voices, This will probably make me sedated as heck, even though they are not contradicted I don't think it's worth a try. How many others here take lamicatal, lithium or anti psychotics with a MAOI?

I think Benzo's do have there place but probably are better tolerated with parnate then nardil, because again nardil affects the enzyme that inhibits GABA. So, it may react differently there was someone who took KLONOPIN with Nardil, and had a panic attack, which was very strange, but belivable, because of how I think it changes the effect of drugs like klonopin. I think nardil effect KLONOPIN more than xanax, and valium for some reason, i tried them all.


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## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

If you really have to take a benzo like I do sometimes take one, out of the three benzos(klonopin, xanax, and valium), I would take Xanax because it is fast acting, and gets out of your system quick so you don't build a tolerance.
Unless, you want to take a benzo long term then I would take valium with it, instead of klonopin because people on nardil don't do well with kpinz, valium also is great for anxiety and has a long half life, so it is better for long term use, you don't have to worry about missing a dose as much, and you can get off it much easier.

If your taking a benzo once in a while, xanax is the way. Xanax is very effective for night time insomnia too.

Another thing people augment nardil with is T3, the pill is called cytomel and it speeds up your thyroid, and metabolism I think. One doctor put me on it because he said it augments antidepressants and make them work faster, I actually got more energy and enjoyed it, I really think it worked! but then two other psychatrist said they never heard of it, and one took me off it because he said that was a stupid idea and the other doctor did not have a clue what he was doing......yeah right, it was the other way around.

I read people augment Nardil with T3 all the time.

I wonder what the true reason is for this, and how it actually works?

It would not hurt to try, I really don't know how it reacts on other people, and I don't know if it will give you energy like it did me because it is not a stim.

Another drug that is highly effective for treatment resistant depression is BUPRENORPHINE.

I get it for generalized pain, and was also given it to get off a stronger opiate i was taking, methadone and morphine.

I only take 4mg, to 8mg a day although I am scripted the max 32mg a day. MOST people say that lower doses work better on depression and anxiety from personal experience, I read this over and over again.

Even though it's a opiate it is non addicting, that is why it's approved to get off narcotics (opiates) the effects are not that noticable if you already were on a strong opiate, but if you try it with out being on another drug first you will get a strong effect like maybe taking 4 vicodens, but it wares off quickly. It actually is a Partial MU antagonist, not a full one, that is why that it don't get you high, It's cling to one of the MU recptors in your stomach so hard, that if you took another opiate it would render it useless. It is also affect the KAPPA receptors, I have no idea if this is responsible for antidepressant effects. I know it has been proven to work on depression especially TREATMENT RESISTANT DEPRESSION, and it has been tested and studied for this reason. And, for me it's the second best augmentor for nardil, behind lyrica.

In the US, physchatirst and doctors have to have a special license to prescribe it, so if you live in another country I don't know if you can get it. If you live in Europe you will probably get it easy because they use it for PAIN more than they do in the US, because it is not offically FDA recommended for pain in the US right now, but I think it will, or should be soon.

If you get it, it probably wont be for depression anyways, unless you have a real cool doctor, or someone who reads the studies or someone who is really willing to help. Read the studies it works, buprenorphine works GREAT for DEPRESSION for a lot of people.

On the other hand, Nardil has not been working well for me as of late, unless I augment it with lyrica, and buprenorphine and maybe a benzo, because I don't know if it has kicked in yet, I have been taking it for a month, I will give it one more month and if it does not work, I am switching to parnate or getting off antidepressant all together, and probably just use anti-anxiety agents. I have tried a bunch of anti D's (zoloft, remeron, effexor, paxil, lexpro, trazadone, anafranil, prozac, and probally many more also stims ritalin, concerta, ritalin sr, adderal, adderal xr, dexadrine, focalin xr, and anti psychotic geodon, serquel, haladol, and mood stabalizor depakote ) 

I just don't think antidepressant are for me, I even read in some studies MAOI's are no more effective than the newer SSRI's and if that is true I am screwed. That means I will probably have to wrestle with depression all my life. There is also studies on SSRI's(KIRSH) saying that antidepressants are no more effective that placebo. Again if that is true, I will probably end up living a sub par life- either on disability, or floating around, I just hope that I dont turn to drugs, or suicide, god please I hope I have a breakthrough so that does not happen.

I think Nardil has real bad effects on my concentration, another reason I wish I was prescibed a stimulant, but oh well, stimulants don't work as well on social anxiety as they do on depression and ADHD anyways. They can make you jittery and more anxious.

Oh yeah, I make sure I take a B-Complex because nardil has been proven to deplete vitamin B-6. I would also take a multi vitamin.

It is also great to take something with DHA, and EPA, like fish oil, and flax seed. I put a bunch of flax seed on my oatmeal everyday. Fish oil is better for OMEGA 3's though, actually HEMP has the most balanced OMEGA 3's EPA, and DHA, for the human body. EPA, and DHA, have been studied and been proven to calm the mind, and help with disorders like depression and anxiety, good for the mind. And, does not interact at all.

Also, do not drink protein shakes, they may be healthy but some contain SOY (which is contradicted) and a lot have a ton of Amino Acids, some have even more added because amino acids are really good for you but, in most blends of amino acids there is TYROSINE which is basically the pre-curser to TRYAMINE, I may be mistaken but I think I read that somewhere. I know if you took a Tyrosine pill (which is stimulating) you would probably have a trip to the hospital because of it's filled with TYRAMINE, even more than aged CHEESE I think.

Ok, that about sums it up. Good luck with the Nardil! I hope it kicks in for me, or it's the blue for me.....


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

T3's are wimpy pain killers, at least try Percocets...


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

Why should thyroid hormone be a pain killer? It's used as an antidepressant augmentation strategy sometimes. And I'm not sure Percocets would help him much for pain as he is on 8mg Buprenorphine.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Medline said:


> Why should thyroid hormone be a pain killer? It's used as an antidepressant augmentation strategy sometimes. And I'm not sure Percocets would help him much for pain as he is on 8mg Buprenorphine.


I didn't read that part, just the part where he was thinking about T3's and Percocets are clearly better choice. I remember dispensing them all the time to patients who were also on oxycontin 20mgs+ at the pharmacy where I worked, I never dispensed Buprenorphine as I dont think its even available here though I could be wrong.


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## Jguy22 (Oct 18, 2008)

Buprenorphine Theoratically is stronger than morphine, and 8mg of Buprenorphine would be way stronger than percocet. But it's NOT!! Because it only a partial mu-opiod receptor antagonist you don't feel like the effects like you would if it was a full one.

But, in europe they still use it as a pain medication, under the name temegisic and believe it or not the dose is like .02 mg!! I can not believe I take something that is 40x times the dose! And they give it instead of potent meds like oxycotin to cancer patients, I don't understand how .02mg of bupe would help a cancer patient.

It help depression though!

Oh, and I got yelled at by my psychatrist for mixing adderal xr with my Nardil. I can not believe it the pharmacy called and told on me! He scolded me and asked me if I had a death wish. 

I guess I deserved it, for being so stupid, I read it was ok on a website, I guess you should not believe everything you read.

Oh, and he would not give me Provigil, he looked it up in his book and it said can not take with MAOI's. He said if another doctor gave me Provigil he would not care, but he does not want to take the chance.

That sucks, because I know provigil would be safe.

And medline is right T3 is a med that augments antidepressants, and is supposed to speed up there action, they sometimes give it to suicidal patients in hopes that it will pull them out of there massive depression faster, because they don't have time to wait a month.


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## Medline (Sep 23, 2008)

> I didn't read that part, just the part where he was thinking about T3's and Percocets are clearly better choice.


I think you got things wrong. He considers Thyroid Hormone (triiodothyronine (=T3)) as an augmentation strategy for his depression. You probably meant Tylenol 3.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Medline said:


> I think you got things wrong. He considers Thyroid Hormone (triiodothyronine (=T3)) as an augmentation strategy for his depression. You probably meant Tylenol 3. These wouldn't work for him in case of pain by the way because of the u-opioid-antagonistic action of the Bupe he is on.


yes I was under the understanding that T3= Tylenol 3's, 325mgs of acetaminophen, 30mgs of codeine, and 15mgs of caffeine.


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## guitarguy (Aug 12, 2008)

Jguy22 said:


> If you really have to take a benzo like I do sometimes take one, out of the three benzos(klonopin, xanax, and valium), I would take Xanax because it is fast acting, and gets out of your system quick so you don't build a tolerance.
> Unless, you want to take a benzo long term then I would take valium with it, instead of klonopin because people on nardil don't do well with kpinz, valium also is great for anxiety and has a long half life, so it is better for long term use, you don't have to worry about missing a dose as much, and you can get off it much easier.
> 
> If your taking a benzo once in a while, xanax is the way. Xanax is very effective for night time insomnia too.
> ...


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## rayearth05 (Oct 29, 2008)

*Nardil interaction*

I Was playing around with interactions with nardil. I tried to add levodopa and cabidopa once but that sent me to the hospital with a painful hypertensive crisis. I know that you are desperate to get rid of your depression, but slow down.. Currently I am trying to add Carbidopa by itself with Nardil or Carbegoline with Nardil and possibly carbidopa also. According to my theories that should be the final cure for my depression based on the action of all three meds together. I just have to make sure that any of them do not interact like levodopa does for sure; otherwise I better have the copayment ready and strong arteries and veins to stand another painful hypertensive crisis


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## PsychInsighter (Jul 9, 2010)

*New Nardil Augmentation*

*New Nardil* needs to be augmenting because of its loss in some of its specific benefits and effects when it was reformulated to generic!!! Here are the Cocktails that seem to work if you have had Anxiety resurface and or more ups an downs!
*Neurontin* at high dosages seems to be with the new Nardil great for suppressing Anxiety and for Social phobia.. Where the Old Nardil kicked *** on SP and anxiety.. Now if you ad Neuron-tin in its more like the Original Nardil..
*Lamictal* in the mix can boost the antidepressant effects of the new nardil and level off mood swings..
*Seroquel* can help with sleep and also help level moods and enhance anti-depressant effects...
The New Nardil Has lost its kick basically in how it is metabolized because of its coating...Now it needs to be enhanced with other meds in order to get it back more like its originally formulation.. I have spent 16 years on Nardil and went thru its reformulation transition and the withdrawals when it lost effects in its new Formulation by Pfizer in 2003...
I have spent years trying add-On meds to test and manipulate nardil...
I also found that if you take 2 or 3 15mg tabs at night it will metabolize more and you will awake like if you were on the old nardil..
I am on 90mg a day and where it says take 1 tab six times a day..I found its better too take 2 in a.m. 1 in afternoon and 3 at night and it metbolizes more and effects you more like the old Nardil!!!!
ALL and the application of *Lyrica.*.May Help like Neurontin because its Neurontins big Sister and more potent....but Neurontin seems to work more rapidly......


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## JohnnyAlonzo (Jan 25, 2013)

PsychInsighter said:


> *New Nardil* needs to be augmenting because of its loss in some of its specific benefits and effects when it was reformulated to generic!!! Here are the Cocktails that seem to work if you have had Anxiety resurface and or more ups an downs!
> *Neurontin* at high dosages seems to be with the new Nardil great for suppressing Anxiety and for Social phobia.. Where the Old Nardil kicked *** on SP and anxiety.. Now if you ad Neuron-tin in its more like the Original Nardil..
> *Lamictal* in the mix can boost the antidepressant effects of the new nardil and level off mood swings..
> *Seroquel* can help with sleep and also help level moods and enhance anti-depressant effects...
> ...


 Totally wrong. The reformulation only means you have to adjust your dose up or down. I also don't understand why people add so many other ant anxiety drugs to Nardil and complain that Nardil's AD effect isn't working well.. Funny thing is, when they come off the other anti anxiety meds the Nardil AD effect is perfect again. Hmmm... Everyone has some anxiety whether it be general or social. Medicine is designed to bring it back to normal levels again not totally erase it to 0 and make you feel totally blank and anxiety free.


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## zendog78 (Jan 27, 2010)

Seriously? You bump a thread started in 2008 just to give your opinion? Oh, its about Nardil, what a surprise :b


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## watertouch (Nov 4, 2013)

JohnnyAlonzo said:


> Totally wrong. The reformulation only means you have to adjust your dose up or down. I also don't understand why people add so many other ant anxiety drugs to Nardil and complain that Nardil's AD effect isn't working well.. Funny thing is, when they come off the other anti anxiety meds the Nardil AD effect is perfect again. Hmmm... Everyone has some anxiety whether it be general or social. Medicine is designed to bring it back to normal levels again not totally erase it to 0 and make you feel totally blank and anxiety free.


For a generic or such is allowed to be sold in Sweden/EU it must contain the same amount of the active substance as the Original...

And as i seen you mentioned "NEVER CUT PILLS"... Phenelzine comes in 15mg pills...
So a dose increasement/decrease of 15mg should be used?


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