# Going out on a date with an older woman (33, I'm 26 going on 27)



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Really nervous going into this tonight. Worrying that she might think I'm too immature for her (I often times feel like I'm not quite where I should be in life stages at my age to begin with.) Worried that maybe I won't seem as good looking in-person as in my photos to her. Even though girls in the past have said Im more good looking in-person than in my photos (though I've gotten feedback that my body language often makes me seem unconfident and less attractive.) Worried that she might be turned off by my relative relationship inexperience and overall life experience in general.

Being unconfident has brought me nothing though. My successes have stemmed from confidence. You nee that certain level of confidence to communicate inviting body language and signals. To be at your full potential and be yourself (shyness holds back your true self). And I shouldn't rely so much on external validation from women. I feel that I'm a catch. If I was a chick, I'd date me. lol. But I say stuff like "but oh women want this and that and I don't have that. Women are this certain way and they want men to be this certain way." I base it entirely on their acceptance and I paint women out to be these cruel monsters to avoid taking chances. Because if I get rejected, I risk confirming those negative things I assume women think about me.

I firmly think in a great guy. That doesn't mean I'm not open to improving things about myself and my life. Doesn't mean I'm not open to feedback. But Im not a bad/inferior person for whatever shortcomings I have. If anything obsessing about my shortcomings and growing bitter is what makes me a bad person at times.

All I can really do I guess going into this is not put myself down and see myself as her inferior. Just be myself and not freak out if I happen to not answer whatever interview questions she throws at me to her satisfaction. Or be too hard on myself for screwing up. And just accept mistakes as part of life and a chance for growth as well as the successes. Worrying about protecting my fragile ego takes precedence over improving my quality of life. That's not right.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

She's an older women who likes younger guys, she obviously found you attractive from your pictures, and she suggested a date fairly quickly. She's not the type to want anything more than the guy to be himself and have a good time with her. So just focus on that - having a good time. That's all you can do. You got this.


----------



## winesipides (Jul 10, 2012)

rymo said:


> She's an older women who likes younger guys, she obviously found you attractive from your pictures, and she suggested a date fairly quickly. She's not the type to want anything more than the guy to be himself and have a good time with her. So just focus on that - having a good time. That's all you can do. You got this.


yep.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Ok she says that she's not feeling well and asked if its ok to reschedule. I said that's fine and asked her when she like to reschedule. No reply yet. It's been 40 mins.

Honestly this is a classic first date flake type of thing to do that you see so often. But what can you do? On to the next


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

I know she's older but I wouldn't class that as 'going with an older woman' in the general sense.

26 and 33 isn't a massive age gap.
Go have fun. 
You'll be guaranteed that she knows what she wants.


----------



## little toaster (Jul 5, 2012)

Jollygoggles said:


> 26 and 33 isn't a massive age gap.


What about 10 years? Is that too much? If she was 36 or so.



phoenixwright said:


> Ok she says that she's not feeling well and asked if its ok to reschedule. I said that's fine and asked her when she like to reschedule. No reply yet. It's been 40 mins.


Did you send a text? An email? Talk on the phone?

She could have work during the day or could be waiting until she feels better.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

Jollygoggles said:


> I know she's older but I wouldn't class that as 'going with an older woman' in the general sense.
> 
> 26 and 33 isn't a massive age gap.
> Go have fun.
> You'll be guaranteed that she knows what she wants.


That's exactly what I was thinking. It's only six years and the post makes it seem like she's a "cougar".


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I guess I'm getting up there in age to the point that 6 And change years is not a big deal. 

Anywho she rescheduled for the next day. Hopefully her canceling because she wasn't feeling well was legit.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

little toaster said:


> What about 10 years? Is that too much? If she was 36 or so.


Who cares how old anyone is once you pass your mid-twenties? It's two adults. Sure, you may not be as mature but it's a learning experience. It's a new experience. You can learn something new from everyone. Just embrace it. It may be short and sweet but who cares.

Variety is the spice of life. :yes

AllToAll is right. It's only 6 years.

EDIT: And I think this goes for all the love sick people on this forum. If some of you stopped imaging your love life should be something out of puritanical leaflet on the 'Do's of a good relationship' or being hyper judgemental of dabbling in things outside the 1950's ideas of courtship > marriage > babies and actually started experimenting and opening yourself to the idea of mixing it up, learning from mistakes, meeting all different types, sleeping with a person once and then moving on then you'd find your life much more fulfilling and fun.


----------



## winesipides (Jul 10, 2012)

Jollygoggles said:


> Variety is the spice of life. :yes


:yes


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Looking at her profile, she's not looking to rush into anything serious at all. She just wants to date. That puts me more at ease. According to her okcupid match answers, she's also more sexually permissive than most women. ie. She will sleep with a guy on the first date if she really likes him. So yeah maybe she just wants to have fun and doesn't expect me to be this mature gentlemen who has all his **** together and life figured out and what not.

It's an intimidating situation because she has lived a much more full life. Whereas I feel like I have wasted many years of my life. I don't even feel 26. I feel more like 22 maybe. And in some aspects of my life (ie. relationships as opposed to career, where I'm improving), I feel like I'm still a teenager. I have talked to a girl on SAS who is nearly 4 years younger than me who had multiple multi-year relationships. I feel like I'm her junior, rather than the other way around. lol. (though career-wise, I don't seem to be doing too bad for myself at the moment. Making good money but I'm still behind the curve since I'm juggling two part-time jobs within my field and stuck on a short-term temporary contract for one of them). It's fitting that I have a baby face and look young for my age. One stripper nearly 6 years my junior commented that I looked young. When I told her I was 26, she was shocked but said "that's still young though".


----------



## Nada (Dec 19, 2004)

Had an older woman who wanted to go on a date. She was pretty persistent got me to call her then set up the time to meet up and etc. Then when the time came, she totally flaked on me.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> Looking at her profile, she's not looking to rush into anything serious at all. She just wants to date. That puts me more at ease. According to her okcupid match answers, she's also more sexually permissive than most women. ie. She will sleep with a guy on the first date if she really likes him. So yeah maybe she just wants to have fun and doesn't expect me to be this mature gentlemen who has all his **** together and life figured out and what not.
> 
> It's an intimidating situation because she has lived a much more full life. Whereas I feel like I have wasted many years of my life. I don't even feel 26. I feel more like 22 maybe. And in some aspects of my life (ie. relationships as opposed to career, where I'm improving), I feel like I'm still a teenager. I have talked to a girl on SAS who is nearly 4 years younger than me who had multiple multi-year relationships. I feel like I'm her junior, rather than the other way around. lol. (though career-wise, I don't seem to be doing too bad for myself at the moment. Making good money but I'm still behind the curve since I'm juggling two part-time jobs within my field and stuck on a short-term temporary contract for one of them). It's fitting that I have a baby face and look young for my age. One stripper nearly 6 years my junior commented that I looked young. When I told her I was 26, she was shocked but said "that's still young though".


It's the first date. Don't feel so nervous. You're not going to tell her about all your insecurities and anxieties off the bat. If anything, completely refrain from that! 
The best thing about a first is that you don't know anything about the person, and they don't know anything about you. Enjoy giving out details about yourself that you feel proud off and see how it goes from there.

Are you looking for a long-term relationship or just _fun_?


----------



## JGreenwood (Jan 28, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> Looking at her profile, she's not looking to rush into anything serious at all. She just wants to date. That puts me more at ease. According to her okcupid match answers, she's also more sexually permissive than most women. ie. She will sleep with a guy on the first date if she really likes him. So yeah maybe she just wants to have fun and doesn't expect me to be this mature gentlemen who has all his **** together and life figured out and what not.
> 
> It's an intimidating situation because she has lived a much more full life. Whereas I feel like I have wasted many years of my life. I don't even feel 26. I feel more like 22 maybe. And in some aspects of my life (ie. relationships as opposed to career, where I'm improving), I feel like I'm still a teenager. I have talked to a girl on SAS who is nearly 4 years younger than me who had multiple multi-year relationships. I feel like I'm her junior, rather than the other way around. lol. (though career-wise, I don't seem to be doing too bad for myself at the moment. Making good money but I'm still behind the curve since I'm juggling two part-time jobs within my field and stuck on a short-term temporary contract for one of them). It's fitting that I have a baby face and look young for my age. One stripper nearly 6 years my junior commented that I looked young. When I told her I was 26, she was shocked but said "that's still young though".


You have a strange concept of time. Again, not really a big difference between 22 and 26. It's like saying...I don't feel white, I feel caucasian.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

AllToAll said:


> It's the first date. Don't feel so nervous. You're not going to tell her about all your insecurities and anxieties off the bat. If anything, completely refrain from that!
> The best thing about a first is that you don't know anything about the person, and they don't know anything about you. Enjoy giving out details about yourself that you feel proud off and see how it goes from there.
> 
> Are you looking for a long-term relationship or just _fun_?


The more "careful" I am to avoid painting myself in a negative light at all and only showing the positives, the less likely I am to be comfortable and confident though. I'm going to do my best to put my best face forward. But At the same time I can't over-think things and second-guess myself when talking to her. I need to be natural and not be so concerned with trying to impress her.

As for what I'm looking for, I'm definitely looking for fun. Dating, hanging out, having shared experiences and adventures with a good woman. Yes, sex too. But it's not all about sex.

I'm interested in a long-term relationship and finding love too. I ache for finding love. But I worry about commitment.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Just see how things go.

You're overthinking. And that will lead you to misery, because you will end up writing this woman off before you get to really know her.

Just go out on a date, and have a good time. What's the problem? If she doesn't like you by the end of the date, she will let you know; if she does, she will see you again.


----------



## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

you'll do great. I bet she's interested in some sexytime. let us know how it goes!


----------



## Strwbrry (Jun 28, 2012)

It's obvious that woman wants a good time, so be cool. Don't overthink, be charming and just relax and have a good time. Thumbs up, fingers crossed


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Where are you going on the date?


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

We're meeting at an Irish pub for drinks and dinner I'm guessing. I'm eating. I don't know if she will. That would make it awkward. It's at 7pm. That's like a dinner slot.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> We're meeting at an Irish pub


The best kind.

You'll be grand.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Just don't overthink the age thing. Get a seat in a dark corner - maybe you can get her drunk and cornhole her under the table!


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

We're having our date on the patio. She hinted at getting Tipsy/drunk but she might have been joking. Lol. I'm driving there so I can't overdo it 

I'm really looking forward to tonight. And getting less nervous now. Looking at this from a glass half full rather than a lass half empty perspective as I usually do. I didn't even rehearse what I was gonna say or go over her profile and what we talked about. I want to be as natural as possible.

I asked her how she was (via iMessage) on my break and we chatted a little bit then. But I wanted to save the chatting for the date so I didn't press conversation too much. I'm a good conversationalist. I just shouldn't over think or try to impress or self-censure so much.


----------



## Strwbrry (Jun 28, 2012)

You'll be fine! Just as you said, save the talk for the date


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

OP's gonna get a lil' somethin' somethin' tonight!


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I bombed it badly. Really, really badly.


----------



## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

It can't have been that bad, surely?


----------



## centrino (Sep 27, 2010)

how was it? BTW, Did you meet her at a dating site?


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

It was pretty bad. She was talking almost pretty much the whole time. And she pointed this out. And also pointed out that she noticed that I pretty much mostly talk about work. And she pointed out that two things I mentioned were not good things to talk about on a first date (ie. about a trip to a gay sex toy shop during Pride Week and about how two gay guys invited me to a strip club and I turned it down. She didn't like that I brought up strippers on a first date. Says I should maybe save those stories for later dates.)

Then she said that she's done enough talk about herself. She wants me to talk about myself. And I was like "what specifically?" And she's like anything. And I was at a loss. What do you say to that? I couldn't just regurgitate my profile. You need to give me something to work with. What do you say to a question like that?

EDIT: She was also like "I take it you don't date very much do you?"


----------



## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

Damn, those types are the worst. They say everything that comes into their head and make you feel like crap when they decide to point out to you whatever flaws they see in you. Don't worry about it, it's not your fault. I wouldn't do any better in that situation.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> It was pretty bad. She was talking almost pretty much the whole time. And she pointed this out. And also pointed out that she noticed that I pretty much mostly talk about work. And she pointed out that two things I mentioned were not good things to talk about on a first date (ie. about a trip to a gay sex toy shop during Pride Week and about how two gay guys invited me to a strip club and I turned it down. She didn't like that I brought up strippers on a first date. Says I should maybe save those stories for later dates.)
> 
> Then she said that she's done enough talk about herself. She wants me to talk about myself. And I was like "what specifically?" And she's like anything. And I was at a loss. What do you say to that? I couldn't just regurgitate my profile. You need to give me something to work with. What do you say to a question like that?
> 
> ...


* She was talking almost pretty much the whole time. And she pointed this out*

Phoenixwright: _Did ya ever think that maybe you just talk too much? _

*I should maybe save those stories for later dates*

Phoenixwright: _The 19th of July isn't a good date for funny stories? Tell me which dates are more appropriate so I can mark them on my calendar :b_

*She wants me to talk about myself.*

Phoenixwright: _I work at [] and I love it, I really want to go for [] in the future and really get my career going so I can be financially secure and spend my days doing [] and []. Sometimes it's hard though..my boss..what a character, one time [funny boss story]. What about you? What are your ambitions?_

*I take it you don't date very much do you?*

Phoenixwright: _I'm nubile little angel ready to be corrupted. Feast on my soul, grandma._


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> * She was talking almost pretty much the whole time. And she pointed this out*
> 
> Phoenixwright: _Did ya ever think that maybe you just talk too much? _


Yeah I should have used that one!

*



I should maybe save those stories for later dates

Click to expand...

*


> Phoenixwright: _The 19th of July isn't a good date for funny stories? Tell me which dates are more appropriate so I can mark them on my calendar :b_


Good one. lol.

*



She wants me to talk about myself.

Click to expand...

*


> Phoenixwright: _I work at [] and I love it, I really want to go for [] in the future and really get my career going so I can be financially secure and spend my days doing [] and []. Sometimes it's hard though..my boss..what a character, one time [funny boss story]. What about you? What are your ambitions?_


I was talking about work though. She said that she noticed that I pretty much mostly talk about work (we're both from the same field).

*



I take it you don't date very much do you?

Click to expand...

*


> Phoenixwright: _I'm nubile little angel ready to be corrupted. Feast on my soul, grandma._


Somehow I doubt she'd appreciate that kind of humour. I don't know. She didn't seem to like my story about my trip at a gay sex toy shop. And also a funny conversational exchange I had with a stripper.


----------



## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

Okay - here's my take on this. frankly, assuming that all you report really are all the relevant facts I need to know (perception is everything), I would say the problem is hers. I would have loved to share stories about Gay Pride, my trips to San Francisco and what I saw, etc etc etc and that crazy movie called "Jeffrey" which I loved. there's nothing wrong with the stories you had. that was a completely judgmental thing for her to do. 

and get this: I've been on dates through POF and EVERY time, the guy's opener was a telling of the last ***** they were with and how she went all t*ts up on them, etc etc. I always left feeling like Dear Abby. I'd rather have been on your date any day.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> Yeah I should have used that one!
> 
> Good one. lol.
> 
> ...


I know, I was kidding about the last one 

---------------------------------------------------

Here's the good news. She's an annoying, conservative ***** and probably isn't worth your time.

Here's the bad news. You were taking everything she said to heart, and this could really hurt you in a date with someone you actually like. Though, I'm sure next time the girl won't be nearly as critical. Regardless, if a date criticizes you, the ABSOLUTE BEST way to handle it is to either turn it back around on her in a humorous way, or just show her that she's wrong by..well..proving her wrong. If you stare at her blankly or get defensive, she will sense that in an instant. It's really hard for a lot of people with SA to NOT get defensive considering our low self-esteem. But I'm telling you. The more you try to not give a **** what the person thinks/says and just try to make light of the situation the more you will like yourself and the more you will notice other people liking you more.

Take my date on Monday, for example. I've gotten pretty good at busting girls' balls (so to speak), but this girl could dish it right back. There were a few times I felt myself going back to that old defensive mode, but I forced myself to snap out of it and just keep the interaction moving smoothly by joking around or asking her a question. I actually just called her a few hours ago and she didn't answer nor have I gotten a response yet, but whereas in the past I would be cursing her soul to hell, now I don't take it personally (okay, a little :b). The disappointment for me is just that I really think we are a match and I'm dying to see where it goes. We'll see what happens.

Anyways, about the "tell me about yourself" question. If you've already talked about work, you could just talk about your hobbies, what you like to do, what you want out of life in general, etc. And mix in some humor as well.:

"Yeh I like working out...I'm only up to benching 600 lbs so far tho " (and then flex your bicep and tell her to feel it).

Just be loose, don't over-think it. If you take the question TOO seriously, you'll just end up being boring. She's not testing you to see if you are working on the cure for cancer, she's testing you to see if you can think on your feet and mix it up. Ultimately though, after you answer the question, just flip it back on her.

"So what about you? Do you like working out as well? Oh yeh? Let's see that bicep!!!"


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

It's not like she dominated the conversation. I just wasn't talking enough in response to what she was saying. And when I was responding, it was pretty much mostly work-related. There was very little of a personal slant. Very little of me talking about me. But I don't know how I would take things in that direction or how to go about it.

The thing is I thought she would actually be cool and not conservative. She's not religious at all and mentioned to me that it would be a problem if I was religious. So being a liberal, I thought she'd be cool with my 15 inch dildo comment (that I saw at the gay sex shop) and the talk of strippers on the first date.

As for talking about my hobbies, I didn't know what to say really. I mentioned that I like to hang out with my buddies at bars and what not and she's like "you already mentioned this in your email to me. I already know that." What else am I going to say? I think I pretty much covered my hobbies in my few emails to her. 

This **** just really discourages me. At the same time though, it's not like she has won me over either though.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> It's not like she dominated the conversation. I just wasn't talking enough in response to what she was saying. And when I was responding, it was pretty much mostly work-related. There was very little of a personal slant. Very little of me talking about me. But I don't know how I would take things in that direction or how to go about it.
> 
> The thing is I thought she would actually be cool and not conservative. She's not religious at all and mentioned to me that it would be a problem if I was religious. So being a liberal, I thought she'd be cool with my 15 inch dildo comment (that I saw at the gay sex shop) and the talk of strippers on the first date.
> 
> ...


Honestly. Say anything. It doesn't matter sometimes. Most of the time it's more about your delivery and the confidence behind what you say versus the actual content. Maybe she thought you told that dildo story in a creepy way, but honestly if that's the case then you just have to handle it and move on. It's extremely difficult sometimes but you have to play it cool on a date and not get discouraged because once you start to get discouraged it can snowball very quickly and leave your brain and mouth completely paralyzed. I'm now picturing you drooling with your eyes rolled back in your head because you can't think of anything to say :b (though it was more likely due to her droning on about herself).

If you find a girl droning on, do something funny like pretend you're falling asleep. Mess with her a little bit. Conversation on a date needs to be fun. It shouldn't be a question/answer session. Mix things up. Let loose. Forget all of the other things going on in your life (or not going on, if that's the case), and just try to have FUN. The most memorable first dates are FUN dates where both parties are laughing and having a good time, so next time keep that in mind, don't get discouraged, and don't hold back. If you want to tell a dildo story and she doesn't like it, oh well. That's your sense of humor, if she doesn't get it or like it then there's no way in hell you guys would end up getting along. But if you go on a date with some other girl and you tell the same story and it gets a laugh, go with it. Take that laugh for all it's worth and ride it to victory!!!!!!!!!

In other words, if a girl is feeling you in the beginning, go with it and have a good time. If she's not and you can sense that, try to switch things up a bit and not get so defensive/discouraged, and maybe the interaction will end up going great. In this particular case, it really doesn't sound like she was the type of person you would be interested in anyway, so it ultimately really doesn't matter. But next time, don't assume you have nothing to say because you DO. You were just getting overly discouraged by her criticism.

A little challenge, if you will. Pretty young girl meets you for coffee, sits down, and asks, "So, tell me more about yourself."

YOU SAY:


----------



## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

I missed the bit about the stripper thing. not so good on a first meeting. Just my opinion.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> Honestly. Say anything. It doesn't matter sometimes. Most of the time it's more about your delivery and the confidence behind what you say versus the actual content. Maybe she thought you told that dildo story in a creepy way, but honestly if that's the case then you just have to handle it and move on. It's extremely difficult sometimes but you have to play it cool on a date and not get discouraged because once you start to get discouraged it can snowball very quickly and leave your brain and mouth completely paralyzed. I'm now picturing you drooling with your eyes rolled back in your head because you can't think of anything to say :b (though it was more likely due to her droning on about herself).
> 
> If you find a girl droning on, do something funny like pretend you're falling asleep. Mess with her a little bit. Conversation on a date needs to be fun. It shouldn't be a question/answer session. Mix things up. Let loose. Forget all of the other things going on in your life (or not going on, if that's the case), and just try to have FUN. The most memorable first dates are FUN dates where both parties are laughing and having a good time, so next time keep that in mind, don't get discouraged, and don't hold back. If you want to tell a dildo story and she doesn't like it, oh well. That's your sense of humor, if she doesn't get it or like it then there's no way in hell you guys would end up getting along. But if you go on a date with some other girl and you tell the same story and it gets a laugh, go with it. Take that laugh for all it's worth and ride it to victory!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


That one is easy because the girl at a coffee shop hasn't already read my dating site profile and learned about myself from the emails we exchanged back and forth (and like I told you, I didn't even exchange much email and text with her. But I pretty much summed up the "tell me about myself" in those emails). I didn't really know what else to say man. I tried to get her to tell me specifically what she wants to know about me. And all she asked me were a couple things: "do you have brothers and sisters?" and "do you live on your own or with your family or?"

I have knocked it out of the park before with extroverts who don't seem to mind that I'm shy. But in order to "evolve", I have to learn how to take a more "active" role. And when I do take a more "active" role, well surprise, surprise, I break a "taboo" (ie. mentioning the dildo thing or the strippers). I don't understand why it's so bad to mix things up a bit and say something outrageous on the first date like that.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

leonardess said:


> I missed the bit about the stripper thing. not so good on a first meeting. Just my opinion.


First date I went on earlier this week we were already talking about how many people we've slept with. Mentioning strippers in a story is incredibly tame. IMHO!


----------



## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

sounds fan-bloody-tastic.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

leonardess said:


> sounds fan-bloody-tastic.


Phoenix are you sure it wasn't leonardess you were on a date with tonight? :b


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I understand that it's very likely that she's not the right type of girl for me. I figured she'd be a lot more chill. I imagined her to be some cougar looking to prey on young meat (based on her sex on the first date answer on the OkCupid match questions and her openness to date younger men. And based on other sex-related things on her OkCupid match answers: ie. preference for rough sex, her liking of anal sex, analingus, etc. I thought I could have potentially had fireworks with a freak. But I hit a stalemate with her man. You need to lead up to the sex stuff. You can't just jump right into it). If that was what she was all about, I would have shown her a really good time. I have went into absolute beast mode in the sack with women in the past and it throws them off big time. Because they don't expect a shy guy to just attack her like that. My previous successes however have given me the confidence to just say "**** her man".

But I am still very much self-conscious about my weaknesses. ie. Not being able to properly answer a simple question like "tell me about yourself."

When I told her that I am a little bit introverted (I said it with a joking smile. Knowing that I'm making a huge understatement!) she was like "no, I'm a little bit introverted. You must have been locked in a trunk." (she said that with a smile and a laugh but still) And she also said that she doesn't know how I was able to get past the interview stage to get the job that I have in my field if I can't even answer a question like "tell me about yourself". I pointed out "but when I answer that question, I make it work-related. You just said that I talk about work a lot."

She also said, "oh now I know why you are in <sub-field of my filed>. It's the one sub-field in that field that allows you to talk the least."


----------



## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

She's sound kind of hard to get along with. I hate when people ask me to talk or to say something about myself. I'll admit that if a guy talks about sex or sexual things graphically on a first date or on messenger, I get the feeling that he is not terribly interested in dating me, more just interested in getting laid. Guys tend to treat women differently depending on how much they like them and their intentions. I don't mind talking about those things though.

I've also learned to keep my mouth shut about certain things. I don't mention my fondness for love hotels to American guys anymore. It's normal in Japan but for some reason Americans think it's sleazy or whatever.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

komorikun said:


> She's sound kind of hard to get along with. I hate when people ask me to talk or to say something about myself. I'll admit that if a guy talks about sex or sexual things graphically on a first date or on messenger, I get the feeling that he is not terribly interested in dating me, more just interested in getting laid. Guys tend to treat women differently depending on how much they like them and their intentions. I don't mind talking about those things though.


Glad you chimed in. Since you can provide a more mid-thirties-ish female perspective on this (she's 2 years younger than you but still).

She really had me stumped with the "I have been talking mostly about myself. We haven't talked much about yourself. Tell me about yourself." "What about myself do you want to know?" "Anything" It's hard to say something to that when I basically covered that in my profile and my emails. I asked her what specifically she wants me to tell her about myself and she only gave me a couple examples of things she'd like to know and I promptly answered those questions.

I joked in a later text to her that it's my inner virgo's need for organization that gets me stumped at questions like that. I need structure, ie. what do you want to know about me specifically.

She hasn't replied to the two texts I sent out to her (I can tell she read them on iMessage. I love you Steve Jobs for creating iMessage. Now I can tell when iPhone users read my texts). I even explained to her in the second text (that i sent an hour after the first post-date text) that I had social anxiety and attending a support group. And that I've mainly had success with more talkative, extroverted women and have run into roadblocks with introverts before. But I'm getting nothing from her. I bet she's going to cluck to all her 50 Shades of Grey reading girlfriends about how much of a disaster date I was. Meanwhile, all I wanted to do was get my **** wet with her. She was nothing special at all. Plain jane (she had one pretty pic on her profile. And in real-life, she looked like the plain jane pics). Nothing about her personality that draws me in. No chemistry. No connection. She even wore a hoodie on our date with a ponytail. Come on now.

Apparently she likes it rough in bed and she puts out on the first date and is open to a lot of things sexually. It's too bad. I would have shown her a good time and she would have been begging for more. Girls are absolutely shocked at how much more assertive I am in the bedroom (and I've had compliments about my ability to last long, my girth and the physicality of our encounters) compared to the image of the shy guy they first had. But she would have never known that side of me. If I tried to show her that side of me "too early", I bet she'd think I was a creep anyway. **** that. If I just wanted sex, it's called the oldest profession in the world. It's always there as an option if I absolutely need it. Ideally I want a relationship or at least sex on the regular (ie. **** buddy or friends with benefits). And to get that, I need to form a connection at least. And it doesn't seem like this wasn't gonna happen with this woman.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I understand that it's very likely that she's not the right type of girl for me. I figured she'd be a lot more chill. I imagined her to be some cougar looking to prey on young meat (based on her sex on the first date answer on the OkCupid match questions and her openness to date younger men. And based on other sex-related things on her OkCupid match answers: ie. preference for rough sex, her liking of anal sex, analingus, etc. I thought I could have potentially had fireworks with a freak. But I hit a stalemate with her man. You need to lead up to the sex stuff. You can't just jump right into it). If that was what she was all about, I would have shown her a really good time. I have went into absolute beast mode in the sack with women in the past and it throws them off big time. Because they don't expect a shy guy to just attack her like that. My previous successes however have given me the confidence to just say "**** her man".
> 
> But I am still very much self-conscious about my weaknesses. ie. Not being able to properly answer a simple question like "tell me about yourself."
> 
> ...


Jesus H. Christ, she is such a *****. **** her.

Anyhoo, you are definitely overthinking the question. I'll try and answer it just to give you an example. I know this is through the internet and I have all day to think about it, but just to give you some idea of one possible way to go about it.

So. Cute girl meets me for coffee, sits down and says, "So, tell me more about yourself."

I say (assume I already talked about work):

I am a person who has had a lot of obstacles I've had to overcome, and I've gotten to be really strong because of it (feel my bicep ;p). Seriously though, I had a tough time in high school and college in a lot of ways but I've learned so much about myself and the world in the last few years and I'm really excited to just continue working hard and playing hard. I joined OkCupid to help me meet new people, and so...here we are.

So now that you've cut deep into my psyche and have me tearing up, let's lighten the mood a bit okay? No need to be so serious and dark all the time  What's your favorite movie?


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> Jesus H. Christ, she is such a *****. **** her.
> 
> Anyhoo, you are definitely overthinking the question. I'll try and answer it just to give you an example. I know this is through the internet and I have all day to think about it, but just to give you some idea of one possible way to go about it.
> 
> ...


The worst thing is that she won't even reply to my two post-date texts when I actually tried to explain myself. She's a ****. I think a reasonable woman would have replied to those texts. Who the **** does she think she is?

It's much appreciated that you gave an example of what you would say. I might say something similar to that. I actually did think about bringing up my social anxiety on the date itself. But my instinct was telling me, "don't show weakness." But I was involuntarily showing weakness anyway. I was pretty much ****ed.

This woman was actually kind of like my worst nightmare. She "confirmed" a lot of the negative thoughts I had about women. She was like a stereotype of that. And yes I did beat myself up over the mistakes I made and even apologized to her. BUT on the other hand, I walked away from this thinking "**** this ho." What's the point of caring about what some ***** thinks when she's "some *****"?

In a way this experience hasn't made me feel more bitter towards women or more negative towards them. Which is odd. Somehow I walked away from this thinking "**** this ho, I'll try to find another one who isn't a *****." While I thought that facing my fear head-on would hurt my self-esteem and make me cower, in a way it actually makes me stronger. I walk away thinking "yeah I'm a social retard alright. (acceptance that yes I have a social anxiety disorder. And this struggle is a part of who I am. But I am not my social anxiety disorder) But who the **** are you to think you're all high and mighty and ****?" lol.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

First rule in dating: Never justify your actions and decisions. 

It sends out vibes of insecurity, and to make it short, a turn-off.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

TPower said:


> First rule in dating: Never justify your actions and decisions.
> 
> It sends out vibes of insecurity, and to make it short, a turn-off.


What are you referring to specifically? When I explained myself post-date with text message? There was no way to even salvage anything with that chick after that disaster of a date so I figured I had nothing to lose. She might look at those texts and laugh about it and show it to her clucking 50 Shades of Grey reading mother****ing bffs. But whatever, **** that noise. I don't care about coming off like the "loser" in this to her. This isn't a competition.

Unless you're referring to what I did on the date itself.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

I was referencing the post-date text.

Some chicks will come running after you if you don't give them a second call after a date because it plays with their own insecurities. Except of course if the date was a complete disaster.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

TPower said:


> I was referencing the post-date text.
> 
> Some chicks will come running after you if you don't give them a second call after a date because it plays with their own insecurities. Except of course if the date was a complete disaster.


So the date wasn't a complete disaster? lol. Ok maybe not COMPLETE disaster. But it seemed pretty bad.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

I see only one avenue of recourse: the witch must die. /I kid

Sounds like a little bit on her end and a little on yours. 
Just learn and move on and try not to beat yourself up too much.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

Jollygoggles said:


> Who cares how old anyone is once you pass your mid-twenties? It's two adults. Sure, you may not be as mature but it's a learning experience. It's a new experience. You can learn something new from everyone. Just embrace it. It may be short and sweet but who cares.
> 
> Variety is the spice of life. :yes
> 
> ...


I believe you have the "Jeremy Kyle" show. Here in the States, it's Jerry Springer or Maury "of six month-old Jasper, Schmuck, you ARE the father!" Povich.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I can't believe OkCupid said we were 93% compatible.

The OkCupid match system is useless.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I can't believe OkCupid said we were 93% compatible.
> 
> The OkCupid match system is useless.


I can't remember ever even looking at the % when deciding whether or not to talk to a girl. Maybe when I first started using it. That's about it.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

The thing I don't really get about this girl is why she wouldn't give me specifics as to what she wanted me to talk about myself. She asked me about two things and then I talked about that and we had some interplay there (her asking a further question). And then that was exhausted. The whole "tell me about yourself" is such a lazy *** question. It's like something that you'd ask in an interview (oh wait, she works in HR. Just like me. lol). What is it that you really want to ****ing know about me? What about a man makes you tick?


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> The thing I don't really get about this girl is why she wouldn't give me specifics as to what she wanted me to talk about myself. She asked me about two things and then I talked about that and we had some interplay there (her asking a further question). And then that was exhausted. The whole "tell me about yourself" is such a lazy *** question. It's like something that you'd ask in an interview (oh wait, she works in HR. Just like me. lol). What is it that you really want to ****ing know about me? What about a man makes you tick?


You're falling into the trap again man. I know you're frustrated, I would be beside myself if I were in your shoes. Sometimes I can barely keep it together over the stupidest ****. But you have to realize, that's just what it is. Stupid ****. Her question means NOTHING. You're taking it too seriously, and you're assuming that she should be perfect and ask you all the right questions all the time. But guess what? No question is perfect. If you think she's interviewing you and it's annoying you, then SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT! "Is this an interview or a date? Cmon! Let's talk about something fun. etc..."


----------



## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

This is why it's always best to be drunk on a first date. Sober 1st dates have the tendency to turn into weird job interviews. Your personalities probably just didn't click and there wasn't enough physical attraction to overcome that.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm really hurting right now from this experience. My ego feels pretty badly bruised up. I have thoughts of, "who am I kidding? I'm a socially awkward, socially inexperienced loser and I'll never get out of this rut." (though I did once think "oh I'll never lose my virginity without paying for it" and well, I proved myself wrong. lol) And I get these thoughts of "see women are *****es just like I thought!" But ok so I'm going to "retire" from dating and resign myself to staying at home surfing the net and playing video games for the rest of my life. Is that it? Am I just going to settle on that? Why not at least try to keep climbing? It's not like taking some time away from my precious videogames to message girls on dating sites is all that big of a deal. She hurt me but it wasn't as bad as I would have imagined it. Ok so a woman thinks I'm a loser who was stuck in a trunk all his life. Whoopde****ingdoo. I think she's a homely hoodie-on-date-wearing, ponytail-on-date, wishing I was getting BDSM'd by Mister Gray *****. (dude do women even try anymore to look pretty on first dates? She tells me that it's important to make a good first impression on a first date and that talking about 15 inch dildos and strippers doesn't cut it. Well ditch the hoodie princess. Unless you're hawt. Then you can pull it off. If I look prettier than a chick on a date, something is wrong)



komorikun said:


> This is why it's always best to be drunk on a first date. Sober 1st dates have the tendency to turn into weird job interviews. Your personalities probably just didn't click and there wasn't enough physical attraction to overcome that.


Since I drove there, I needed to stay within the legal alcohol limit (.05 BAC). So I just had the 1 pint. I'm like 165 lbs so 2 pints would have been enough to get me over the legal limit. In one case, 2 pints within an hour period was enough to get me visibly inebriated (clumsiness, slower motor reaction, etc. I even had a headache after! lol)! I could have took the bus. But I was banking on getting lucky. And if I got lucky, I don't think she'd be impressed by going on a bus or cab ride with me. I refuse to risk driving while over the legal limit. All a cop has to do is pull you over, give you a breathalsyer and you get slapped with a DUI and your life is ****ED.


----------



## Garretoo (Jan 19, 2011)

Honestly she sounds arrogant and seems like she has a lack of empathy in general. There is someone out there that will appreciate you for who you are, because its obvious your are a honest intelligent person. Good luck man, and try not to let this experience get you down.


----------



## Strwbrry (Jun 28, 2012)

She seems like.... An old witch..
Really, she's not worth it. Not a bit. And you shouldn't take it too personally. On to the next one!


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I have trouble sleeping a full 7-8 hours. And it's my day off. lol. I am rather unsettled by this experience clearly. Trust me, this nightmare scenario is not as bad as I imagined it would be. But I feel really upset. At myself for "****ing up" and not talking enough about myself. But at her for being a ***** and not helpful at all.

Whenever I would *TRY* to start talking about something about myself to try to break the silence after she forced me to start talking about myself, she wouldn't give me a whole lot to work with. I'd say "oh I majored in Psychology at x University" and she's like "ohhhhkkkkaaayy" or "I volunteer at such and such place" "It's a very rewarding experience even though often times it can be annoying becausse of this and that ""ohkkkkaaayy"

Jesus Christ, what a *****.

She was also looking for a way out "do you want to end the date now? You're not doing much talking." And I'm like "do you want to end it?" And she's like "no that's up to you". And when the bill came, she volunteered to split right away before I even had the chance to speak. That was cold. But there was no chance in hell I should be offering to pay for that witch. She only started getting nasty with me like a bit before the bill actually came though.



Garretoo said:


> Honestly she sounds arrogant and seems like she has a lack of empathy in general. There is someone out there that will appreciate you for who you are, because its obvious your are a honest intelligent person. Good luck man, and try not to let this experience get you down.


YES lack of empathy. Couldn't have said it better myself.

And yes she is a 33 year old, never married woman. I don't want to judge women in their mid-30s who are never married. But I think it's safe to say that many of them are still single for a very good reason or two. And instead of just shifting the blame to the guy or guys (I bet she rips apart many dates she meets from OkCupid), she should evaluate why she is still single and why no man wants to put a ring on it and just wants to tap that *** (and that's no great achievement. She was a "5" on the outside. Probably a "3" on the inside. The fact that I wanted to get into her pants only means that I want to get into the pants of about 50% of the potential female targets out there. And lots and lots of guys are like that. Not so picky about who they'd sleep with. But they would never commit, let alone put a ring on it with a girl like her.)

I'm still hopeful that there are women around her age and older who are single and not *****es like her. My ex's cousin (who is a few months younger than me) acted similarly with me too a year ago and I did not appreciate that. She was like "ok I have done enough talking up to this point, you have to start talking now. Just you. Go" Like wtf. What do you say to that? My ex's cousin even had the nerve to ask me if I was a virgin too (My ex totally chastized her for being harsh with me like that). Man what is going on? Is there a ***** epidemic out there right now? An epidemic of women who lack empathy and enjoy "picking apart" men?

EDIT: She texted me back. She said that she was sorry to hear that (that I had social anxiety disorder). And said that if I had told her before or on the date, she would have been understanding. I texted her back saying yeah I should have. But you know how it is with revealing that stuff on first dates.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> So the date wasn't a complete disaster? lol. Ok maybe not COMPLETE disaster. But it seemed pretty bad.


Every mistake is an opportunity to learn something. The date wasn't a disaster in that respect. In an earlier post you said you were a good conversationalist - apparently you were wrong about that. So now you know to work on that.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

Bloody women. Grrr! Horrible people really. Texting back and acknowledging they'd have been more understanding if only you'd told them the truth in the first place. Yeaah! Horrible creatures.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I joked in a later text to her that it's my inner virgo's need for organization that gets me stumped at questions like that. I need structure, ie. what do you want to know about me specifically.
> 
> She hasn't replied to the two texts I sent out to her (I can tell she read them on iMessage. I love you Steve Jobs for creating iMessage. Now I can tell when iPhone users read my texts). I even explained to her in the second text (that i sent an hour after the first post-date text) that I had social anxiety and attending a support group. And that I've mainly had success with more talkative, extroverted women and have run into roadblocks with introverts before. But I'm getting nothing from her. I bet she's going to cluck to all her 50 Shades of Grey reading girlfriends about how much of a disaster date I was. Meanwhile, all I wanted to do was get my **** wet with her. She was nothing special at all. Plain jane (she had one pretty pic on her profile. And in real-life, she looked like the plain jane pics). Nothing about her personality that draws me in. No chemistry. No connection. She even wore a hoodie on our date with a ponytail. Come on now.
> 
> Apparently she likes it rough in bed and she puts out on the first date and is open to a lot of things sexually. It's too bad. I would have shown her a good time and she would have been begging for more. Girls are absolutely shocked at how much more assertive I am in the bedroom (and I've had compliments about my ability to last long, my girth and the physicality of our encounters) compared to the image of the shy guy they first had. But she would have never known that side of me. If I tried to show her that side of me "too early", I bet she'd think I was a creep anyway. **** that. If I just wanted sex, it's called the oldest profession in the world. It's always there as an option if I absolutely need it. Ideally I want a relationship or at least sex on the regular (ie. **** buddy or friends with benefits). And to get that, I need to form a connection at least. And it doesn't seem like this wasn't gonna happen with this woman.


If you keep texting her she is going to put you on a "don't date him girl" list.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I have trouble sleeping a full 7-8 hours. And it's my day off. lol. I am rather unsettled by this experience clearly. Trust me, this nightmare scenario is not as bad as I imagined it would be. But I feel really upset. At myself for "****ing up" and not talking enough about myself. But at her for being a ***** and not helpful at all.
> 
> Whenever I would *TRY* to start talking about something about myself to try to break the silence after she forced me to start talking about myself, she wouldn't give me a whole lot to work with. I'd say "oh I majored in Psychology at x University" and she's like "ohhhhkkkkaaayy" or "I volunteer at such and such place" "It's a very rewarding experience even though often times it can be annoying becausse of this and that ""ohkkkkaaayy"
> 
> ...


 You are getting WAY too overwrought over a bad date.


----------



## BKrakow (Jul 8, 2010)

phoenixwright said:


> I imagined her to be some cougar looking to prey on young meat (based on her sex on the first date answer on the OkCupid match questions and her openness to date younger men. And based on other sex-related things on her OkCupid match answers: ie. preference for rough sex, her liking of anal sex, analingus, etc.


you can fill in info like this on okcupid? omg :haha


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Jollygoggles said:


> Bloody women. Grrr! Horrible people really. Texting back and acknowledging they'd have been more understanding if only you'd told them the truth in the first place. Yeaah! Horrible creatures.


What are you suggesting that I should have been upfront with her about my social anxiety disorder? That's like the ultimate #1 no-no on the unofficial dating/PUA guide for men. I have been upfront before and being upfront got me laid. But not every girl is that understanding. And I see it as my fault that I have social anxiety and that this is something that I have to overcome. That the girl shouldn't be dealing with it or accomodating me. But what can you do? It's a part of who I am. It's readily apparent something is amiss when talking to me. I don't want to be defined by the disorder. Because I don't feel that me being shy is who I am. But it has impacted my life in a major way and shaped who I am today.



scarpia said:


> Every mistake is an opportunity to learn something. The date wasn't a disaster in that respect. In an earlier post you said you were a good conversationalist - apparently you were wrong about that. So now you know to work on that.


Ok so I'm weak in that area. But I need guidance. Like how the hell do you answer to "ok I've noticed that I've been talking about myself pretty much the whole time and you haven't talked much. And when you do talk, it's pretty much mostly about work. Now you talk. Tell me about yourself"? Rymo gave me some ideas I can try in the future. But still, it's just a really bad question and seems pretty lazy.

Part of the problem too is that in our exchange, I failed to relate what was going on in my life to much of what she was saying. So aside from work-related stuff (which dominated the conversation), it was kinda like a monologue. The only thing I could relate to was work-related stuff since we're both in the same field. When she talked about her time at Boston, there wasn't much I could really say. I could have pointed out that I have family that lives near Boston (I never visited them though) but that did not occur to me at the time. And honestly aside from the work-related stuff and her vacation and going to gay village to celebrate her friend's bday, I can't remember anything else she said. Maybe she didn't talk about herself (outside work) much either now that I think about it honestly.

Plus I think it's too late for me to "work on that". I'm already at such an advanced age that it seems hopeless that women would be able to give me a chance. It's an immediate redflag if a guy at my age has relatively little relationship experience. And it might be too late to get my social skills to where they need to be. This is a competitive world. Women, just like employers, are not charity cases. They want the best candidate they can get. They don't want a guy who is weak. I think it's fitting that I got ripped up apart job interview style by a woman who works in HR (my own field to boot. Though I work in a completely different sub-section that doesn't involve interviewing). Since it shows that very real parallel between dates and job interviews.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> What are you suggesting that I should have been upfront with her about my social anxiety disorder? That's like the ultimate #1 no-no on the unofficial dating/PUA guide for men. I have been upfront before and being upfront got me laid. But not every girl is that understanding. And I see it as my fault that I have social anxiety and that this is something that I have to overcome. That the girl shouldn't be dealing with it or accomodating me. But what can you do? It's a part of who I am. It's readily apparent something is amiss when talking to me. I don't want to be defined by the disorder. Because I don't feel that me being shy is who I am. But it has impacted my life in a major way and shaped who I am today.
> 
> Ok so I'm weak in that area. But I need guidance. Like how the hell do you answer to "ok I've noticed that I've been talking about myself pretty much the whole time and you haven't talked much. And when you do talk, it's pretty much mostly about work. Now you talk. Tell me about yourself"? Rymo gave me some ideas I can try in the future. But still, it's just a really bad question and seems pretty lazy.
> 
> ...


NOT too late to work on it. But you have to have a better, more positive attitude about it or you're going to get nowhere. I understand being upset but you're taking it too far. I gave you some ideas, so use that to think about your own possible answers to the question. I mean you can't just keep condemning a question as being lazy. You're going to get TONS of "lazy" questions in your lifetime. I keep trying to reiterate, it's not about answering it with some perfect, impressive magical answer. It's all about HOW you answer it. HOW you carry yourself when someone is criticizing you. Do you overreact and get defensive? Or do you turn the date around and lead the interaction? LEAD! Handle the question, move on.

_"How do I do that if I have SA?"_

PRACTICE!

This was a learning experience, learn from it! Stop bashing the girl (as much of a lame date she was)! I've been on some lame dates before, but guess what? I just make the best out of it and try to have FUN and try to not give a ****. If she busts my balls, I bust her right back (in a joking way, of course). I'm not perfect, I mean I was freaking out about my date this week and I even kissed the girl at the end for christ's sake. Like...couldn't have gone better but I was still worried and critical of myself. But I was critical only after the fact. During the date, I just tried to have fun, no matter the circumstances. I knocked over and broke a glass, oh well..made a joke about it and moved on. Stepped on her toe, oops...apologized real quick and move on. You ARE a good conversationalist and you can have fun, you just need to loosen up a bit. Again, the only way to do that is to practice and learn from your mistakes. So go get em tiger.

P.S. stop texting her. It's pointless and silly. Don't let her win so easily. You're giving her WAY too much credit. You think she's lame...so why would what she has to say matter? No one's perfect, she's no better than you, nor is anybody else.


----------



## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

phoenixwright said:


> I have trouble sleeping a full 7-8 hours. And it's my day off. lol. I am rather unsettled by this experience clearly. Trust me, this nightmare scenario is not as bad as I imagined it would be. But I feel really upset. At myself for "****ing up" and not talking enough about myself. But at her for being a ***** and not helpful at all.
> 
> Whenever I would *TRY* to start talking about something about myself to try to break the silence after she forced me to start talking about myself, she wouldn't give me a whole lot to work with. I'd say "oh I majored in Psychology at x University" and she's like "ohhhhkkkkaaayy" or "I volunteer at such and such place" "It's a very rewarding experience even though often times it can be annoying becausse of this and that ""ohkkkkaaayy"
> 
> ...


Lord, I hope not. I will be dating a few of them in the near future.
It might be a different story for me, though.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> P.S. stop texting her. It's pointless and silly. Don't let her win so easily. You're giving her WAY too much credit. You think she's lame...so why would what she has to say matter? No one's perfect, she's no better than you, nor is anybody else.


I was wondering if I could salvage something from this because she acutally did reply this morning and say that she was sorry to hear about that (the social anxiety) and that I should have told her before or on the date I have social anxiety because she would have been understanding. But yeah I don't think anything can be salvaged really. Plus there was nothing about her that genuinely interested me. If she offered up a lay, I would take it because she's not repulsive looking and it's free. That's about it. lol. As much as women make it about the guy having to prove himself, she hasn't done jack **** to win me over. Wearing a hoodie with a ponytail on a first date. Come on now. Lots of women ***** about guys using them for sex. But if you're giving a guy little reason for wanting anything more than your body, what do you expect?

You are right. I should not be putting myself in the "*****" position. Being all apologetic and stuff. And allowing her to push the blame on to me. I am being too "nice".

Honestly rymo why should I even try to impress a girl like that by turning it around with my humour? Do you really want to be with a girl who will push the blame onto you and not take partial responsibility when it's warranted?


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I was wondering if I could salvage something from this because she acutally did reply this morning and say that she was sorry to hear about that (the social anxiety) and that I should have told her before or on the date I have social anxiety because she would have been understanding. But yeah I don't think anything can be salvaged really.


What are you trying to salvage, exactly? You know she's not into you, and you know you're not into her. It sounds like the only thing you're trying to salvage is your ego, but you give that away the second you text her after the date complaining about it. You don't need to make excuses to her, she doesn't matter. What matters is what you think about yourself, and if you learn and do better next time, you will think much more highly of yourself.

And do not tell a girl you have SA before a date (I know you didn't, but don't listen to her). Not only will that increase the chances that she will flake, but it's like you're trying to apologize for your conversational skills before the interaction even really begins ("oh I'm sorry for the awkward silence. I have SA." - oh yeh..that'll win 'em over). YOU DON'T HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR BEING YOU! Don't ever use SA as an excuse. Don't make excuses period. BE YOURSELF and stop giving a **** what anyone else thinks.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> What are you trying to salvage, exactly? You know she's not into you, and you know you're not into her. It sounds like the only thing you're trying to salvage is your ego, but you give that away the second you text her after the date complaining about it. You don't need to make excuses to her, she doesn't matter. What matters is what you think about yourself, and if you learn and do better next time, you will think much more highly of yourself.
> 
> And do not tell a girl you have SA before a date (I know you didn't, but don't listen to her). Not only will that increase the chances that she will flake, but it's like you're trying to apologize for your conversational skills before the interaction even really begins ("oh I'm sorry for the awkward silence. I have SA." - oh yeh..that'll win 'em over). YOU DON'T HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR BEING YOU! Don't ever use SA as an excuse. Don't make excuses period. BE YOURSELF and stop giving a **** what anyone else thinks.


I should stop giving a **** what anyone else thinks. Honestly I'm not sure if that was the reason why I even froze though. I just didn't know what to really say.

There are things I could have just thrown out there if I really had to. I could have talked about music. Taste in movies. Or tv shows. But she had put me on the spot. And after she did, I was taking that question too seriously I guess and I felt like talking about lame **** like the music/movies/tv shows I like wasn't enough to impress her or whatever.

As for social anxiety disclosure, it's not necessarily game over if you tell a girl you have SA. It depends on the girl. I've told girls on the first date or they kinda clued in that something was up. And they still went to bed with me. I find that the social anxiety does severely limit my pool. But it's not like I missed out on a quality girl or anything in this case.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I should stop giving a **** what anyone else thinks. Honestly I'm not sure if that was the reason why I even froze though. I just didn't know what to really say.
> 
> There are things I could have just thrown out there if I really had to. I could have talked about music. Taste in movies. Or tv shows. But she had put me on the spot. And after she did, I was taking that question too seriously I guess and I felt like talking about lame **** like the music/movies/tv shows I like wasn't enough to impress her or whatever.


Exactly. And it doesn't have to be just the stereotypical entertainment interest type of questions, it could be something deeper or more interesting as well. It's all about mixing it up. Talk about movies one minute, aspirations the next, sex after that (well, not with this woman ). That's what makes conversation interesting, by talking about a lot of different things. Delving deep into some, scratching the surface of others. That engaging variety of topics and depth in conversation is part of what will get a girl attracted to you. And I know you say, "oh..maybe it's too late for me." But TRUST ME, it can be learned. I'm certainly no expert but I've literally studied what girls find attractive and through my experiences with women my conversational skills have improved in general. Yours will too.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> Exactly. And it doesn't have to be just the stereotypical entertainment interest type of questions, it could be something deeper or more interesting as well. It's all about mixing it up. Talk about movies one minute, aspirations the next, sex after that (well, not with this woman ). That's what makes conversation interesting, by talking about a lot of different things. Delving deep into some, scratching the surface of others. That engaging variety of topics and depth in conversation is part of what will get a girl attracted to you. And I know you say, "oh..maybe it's too late for me." But TRUST ME, it can be learned. I'm certainly no expert but I've literally studied what girls find attractive and through my experiences with women my conversational skills have improved in general. Yours will too.


I have thought about bringing up "deeper" topics too. But I had worried that they would be too controversial for a first date. ie. I knew that she was really turned off by religious guys. I had thought about talking about religion with her and get all philosophical and ****.

As for talking about sex, you'd think that a girl like her would be very open to that. Based on her OKCupid match question answers. But I just didn't get the impression talking with her that she was sexually assertive. Then again, I'm pretty sure she did not get that impression of me either! But god, I can't even talk about 15" dildos and strippers with her. Come on.

She clearly didn't seem to give a **** about winning my approval (hell she wore a hoodie to a date!). There's no reason why I should give a **** about winning her approval to be honest.

You brought up an important point: it's all about salvaging my EGO. That's what this is all about.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> I have thought about bringing up "deeper" topics too. But I had worried that they would be too controversial for a first date. ie. I knew that she was really turned off by religious guys. I had thought about talking about religion with her and get all philosophical and ****.
> 
> As for talking about sex, you'd think that a girl like her would be very open to that. Based on her OKCupid match question answers. But I just didn't get the impression talking with her that she was sexually assertive. Then again, I'm pretty sure she did not get that impression of me either! But god, I can't even talk about 15" dildos and strippers with her. Come on.


 This is the problem with online dating - you can't really tell how well you will interact based on how many checkmarks you have in common - even if everyone tells the truth about everything (which they don't).


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> You are right. I should not be putting myself in the "*****" position. Being all apologetic and stuff. And allowing her to push the blame on to me. I am being too "nice".


You are not being too nice - you are being too uptight. Maybe you could try a dating coach.


----------



## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

She obviously doesn't know how to read someones body language. She noticed you were quiet and seemed shy, yet she had absolutely no problem with putting you on the spot by saying "so tell me about yourself". She needs to be a little smoother in her delivery. Who the **** would say that? I mean, just come right out and ask that question? That would tell me that my date isn't paying attention. Also, she is a little bit of a *****! Sure, you repeated something you told her in an email, but she doesn't have to say "yeah, you already told me about that". OMFG, excuse me Princess for repeating myself!! :rolleyes 

I wouldn't have been so nice in that situation, but props for keeping your cool. Dude, you didn't miss anything other than some sex, and that probally would have sucked since she's got a broomstick up her butt. NEXT!


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

What's the problem with the question " Tell me about yourself" ? Well of course you would ask someone that if you want to get to know them or could ask a more specific question. I skimmed through some of the huge paragraphs so I don't know what the deal is about that.


----------



## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

It's too vague, IMO. I'd rather be asked a more specific question. I would ask...what are your hobbies, future plans, ect... That way, each subject could lead to another subject."Tell me about yourself" is just a lazy question to ask on a date.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

jsgt said:


> It's too vague, IMO. I'd rather be asked a more specific question. I would ask...what are your hobbies, future plans, ect... That way, each subject could lead to another subject."Tell me about yourself" is just a lazy question to ask on a date.


And not being able to answer it is just as lazy


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

meganmila said:


> What's the problem with the question " Tell me about yourself" ? Well of course you would ask someone that if you want to get to know them or could ask a more specific question. I skimmed through some of the huge paragraphs so I don't know what the deal is about that.


The problem is that I already answered that question basically in the few emails I exchanged with her. And it was already answered on my profile. What else is there to really say to that on a date? The date gives you that chance to concentrate on specifics.

Plus when I actually made an attempt to talk about random things about myself when she pressed me to start taling about myself and stop making the conversation about work or about her (ie. my volunteer work, where I studied and my program of study), she wasn't asking many questions. She was mostly like "ohhhhkkkaaayy." She wasn't making the situation easy for me. She's not a very friendly person. And I wouldn't be surprised that this has something to do with why she's 33 and single. I'm socially anxious and awkward and that's my issue. But I don't think she's without her glaring faults either.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> The problem is that I already answered that question basically in the few emails I exchanged with her. And it was already answered on my profile. What else is there to really say to that on a date? The date gives you that chance to concentrate on specifics.
> 
> Plus when I actually made an attempt to talk about random things about myself when she pressed me to start taling about myself and stop making the conversation about work or about her (ie. my volunteer work, where I studied and my program of study), she wasn't asking many questions. She was mostly like "ohhhhkkkaaayy." She wasn't making the situation easy for me. She's not a very friendly person. And I wouldn't be surprised that this has something to do with why she's 33 and single. I'm socially anxious and awkward and that's my issue. But I don't think she's without her glaring faults either.


sigh...


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

rymo said:


> sigh...


What?


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

This is being over analysed.


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

^ A little bit.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Jollygoggles said:


> This is being over analysed.


I know. I'm just really distressed about this situation. I wasn't even able to get a decent night's sleep today. 4 hours at best. It's not that I lost whatever opportunity with her because it seemed like it would be going nowhere no matter what I could do. It's more about how I feel about myself walking away from this. I feel like ****.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

Roll with the punches chap.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Dating coach or therapist dude.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

scarpia said:


> Dating coach or therapist dude.


So it's all my fault? Is that what you are saying?

She put me on the spot like I was in some sort of job interview ffs (how fitting since she's in HR!). It didn't feel like a date after that point. No fun.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

What's with the weird blame thing you're doing? Nobody is to blame for anything.

What he's saying, and what is blatantly obvious, is that your reaction is WAY over the top to such an innocuous thing. 

Dating couch or therapist is right.

EDIT: or coach, you know, whatever. A dating couch is definitely a real thing though.


----------



## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm sorry, I have to weigh in on this again, although I'm probably the last person you want to hear from. 

emotional resilience - the secret to a satisfying life. I'd like to suggest you read up on it. 

I did think that bringing up stripper stories on a first meeting was a mistake, but that's simply my opinion. On to more germaine topics:

this is just a learning experience. You need to try to get used to it, because life is one long learning experience, an experiment that doesn't end til the day you die. You feel bad for walking away because you feel you were not "successful", that somehow you failed. You did not. You made yourself go do something you wanted to do - that in itself is a success. you're not happy with her reaction to you - you cannot beat yourself up over that because people, being the many faceted and varying creatures that they are, are *always* going to be unpredictable in that they will not fit the picture you have in your head, or follow the script you may not even realize you have written. That's the nature of human interaction. 

You are walking away because you realize you have nothing in common with this person, and they are not a good match for you whatever the goal may have been. that's all that this experience means. 

the most important relationship you will ever have is the one you have with yourself. it really does pay off to develop things about yourself that you like, to get to know yourself well, and get really concrete about your goals and needs and wants. Follow through on them, and I promise you things like this will not send your self esteem plummeting.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I never remember how I'm able to get out of my shell and form connections with people in those early stages. Whether it be male or female. It just happens. And admittedly, most of my connections have been with males. I find it harder in general to relate to women. Even if I have no interest in them. I already wrote off a couple girls ive talked to as prudes and yet I still lack the ability to connect with them. I guess it's easier for me to find things in common with men? Anyone find this a problem they have? Relating to the opposite sex.


----------



## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

Oh my god she tried to get to know you better by making conversation and asking you questions about yourself? RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!! 

She was just making conversation. You sound like you are reading too much into everything she did and trying to find ways to be insulted. You're also jumping to a lot of conclusions about her, and getting pretty nasty (rating her a 5 and insulting her personality, etc) over something as simple as not having a connection with someone on the first date. It happens. It's normal. You are overreacting. Not to mention revealing a lot about your ****ty mentality towards women. Gosh I wonder why you have trouble connecting with the opposite sex..it's a real mystery.

Look within and learn to like what you see before you look anywhere else.


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

au Lait said:


> Oh my god she tried to get to know you better by making conversation and asking you questions about yourself? RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> She was just making conversation. You sound like you are reading too much into everything she did and trying to find ways to be insulted. You're also jumping to a lot of conclusions about her, and getting pretty nasty (rating her a 5 and insulting her personality, etc) over something as simple as not having a connection with someone on the first date. It happens. It's normal. You are overreacting. Not to mention revealing a lot about your ****ty mentality towards women. Gosh I wonder why you have trouble connecting with the opposite sex..it's a real mystery.
> 
> Look within and learn to like what you see before you look anywhere else.


I do kind of agree.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> So it's all my fault? Is that what you are saying?
> 
> She put me on the spot like I was in some sort of job interview ffs (how fitting since she's in HR!). It didn't feel like a date after that point. No fun.


 YOU are the one to blame for getting all bent out of shape over one bad date. YOU are the one who was saying earlier that you were a good conversationalist - then it turned out that you aren't. You seem to have very little insight into your problems and limitations.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

No.Way. She had the AUDACITY to ask you about yourself on a _date_!?!? Doesn't the dumbass know it's ALL on your profile!! Augh! And then go and feel guilty about doing most of the talking?! That b!tch. How did you go through with it, you poor poor thing? Maybe "grandma" just didn't read your profile because she wanted so badly to just have sex. Older women...

:roll

You're angry at her because you didn't come off the way you would've liked. She made you feel like **** because you were nervous and didn't do as well on the date as you wanted. She made you feel ****ty, not because she was mean, but because of how you felt around her: anxious and insecure. 
Also, let's try to get over the fact that she just so happens to be five years older than you (I'm talking to you, rymo). That's nothing. Were the tables turned, no one would be batting an eye.



au Lait said:


> Oh my god she tried to get to know you better by making conversation and asking you questions about yourself? RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> She was just making conversation. You sound like you are reading too much into everything she did and trying to find ways to be insulted. You're also jumping to a lot of conclusions about her, and getting pretty nasty (rating her a 5 and insulting her personality, etc) over something as simple as not having a connection with someone on the first date. It happens. It's normal. You are overreacting. Not to mention revealing a lot about your ****ty mentality towards women. Gosh I wonder why you have trouble connecting with the opposite sex..it's a real mystery.
> 
> Look within and learn to like what you see before you look anywhere else.


Yes to everything.


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

And judging someone cause they are 33 and single and/or hasn't been married. Well some people don't want to get married and maybe she hasn't found the right person or wanted to be single...33 is not even old.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

AllToAll said:


> Also, let's try to get over the fact that she just so happens to be five years older than you (I'm talking to you, rymo). That's nothing. Were the tables turned, no one would be batting an eye.


k


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

Au lait and the other chicks takjng her side: Did you even read the nasty **** she was saying to me or are you taking her side because she's female? Do you want me to point out in bullet form all the nasty things she said in case you forgot?

If you turn the genders around and it was a non-SA guy and a SA girl, you'd think the non-SA party (the guy) was an *** in this situation.

Whatever. Go ahead and put the blame on me.

And when I actually did try to come up with random **** to talk about myself, she barely probed me with further questions or she seemed uninterested, she said "oooohhhhkkay" to most of what I was saying when I talked about my volunteer work and also my college education after she complained that I wasn't talking about myself (outside of work stuff), she really put me on the spot and busted my balls.

I think the issue is that I couldn't relate to her (not an uncommon issue for people with SA). That's why I couldn't naturally interject details about my non-work self into the conversation when she was talking about stuff going on in her non-work life. I feel a general disconnect with women. And it's not because I "hate" women or whatever you want to say. The bitterness followed after years of struggling to relate. Go ahead and personally attack me on a support site. I like it when you reveal what you truly think about me. I don't want people to be fake with me. If I'm a woman hater, them tell me what it means to not be a woman hater? To kiss this woman's *** and say she's in the right and wasn't mean to me at all? She was vicious to me. And if I was a woman hater, I'd assume all women are like that but that would be a depressing way to view life.

I am kinda tipsy btw. Had a lot of fun at a karaoke bar. Helped me feel a lot better about this and more hopeful. There are things I can do (ie. rymo's suggestions) and also some things I came up with when confronted with that kinda scenario. I don't know if the me being able to relate what she was talking about herself to myself thing was possible though. I was just not into the conversation. If she was a dude, I wouldn't hang out with her. A gf should be your best friend and a friend with benefits should be a friend. Doomed from the start probably.


----------



## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

phoenixwright said:


> And based on other sex-related things on her OkCupid match answers: ie. preference for rough sex, her liking of anal sex, *analingus*, etc.


Can you send me a link to her OKCupid profile, please?


----------



## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

Sometimes, it's not what you say, but how you say it. I know you all understand that, right? There's no reason to be rude to someone just because you don't like what they've said. She was RUDE in the way she said "you already told me about that". Any considerate person wouldn't have said it like that. Let it go! No need to call them out for repeating theirself. For those that think it was ok, do you honestly think that there's nothing at all wrong with that? I think it could have been worded differently. She could have said "Yeah, I remember you mentioned that in the email. How did you end up going there?" Or something to that effect. See how painless that was??? Instead of putting an end to the comment, use it to turn the convo towards a new direction. 

Being more sensitive to the other persons feelings will get you alot farther with them than being blunt. Maybe it's just the way she speaks to people. Some actually think it's ok to talk to people like that. :no Anyway, phoenix... don't stress over this budrow. She is obviously not the type for you, so why give an ounce of care towards her opinion of you?


----------



## River In The Mountain (Jun 6, 2011)

She sounds like a bag of beetches. Don't let her ruin other, much nicer women for you. She was most likely the problem. And a hoodie on a date??? No no no.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

Jollygoggles said:


> I see only one avenue of recourse: the witch must die. /I kid
> 
> Sounds like a little bit on her end and a little on yours.
> Just learn and move on and try not to beat yourself up too much.


This should've pretty much concluded the whole discussion. She was a smartass and you were too quiet.



phoenixwright said:


> The thing I don't really get about this girl is why she wouldn't give me specifics as to what she wanted me to talk about myself.


Because she's not your boss or teacher.



phoenixwright said:


> *And yes she is a 33 year old, never married woman. I don't want to judge women in their mid-30s who are never married. But I think it's safe to say that many of them are still single for a very good reason or two. *And instead of just shifting the blame to the guy or guys (I bet she rips apart many dates she meets from OkCupid), she should evaluate why she is still single and why no man wants to put a ring on it and just wants to tap that *** (and that's no great achievement. She was a "5" on the outside. Probably a "3" on the inside. The fact that I wanted to get into her pants only means that I want to get into the pants of about 50% of the potential female targets out there. And lots and lots of guys are like that. Not so picky about who they'd sleep with. But they would never commit, let alone put a ring on it with a girl like her.)
> 
> I'm still hopeful that there are women around her age and older who are single and not *****es like her. My ex's cousin (who is a few months younger than me) acted similarly with me too a year ago and I did not appreciate that. She was like "ok I have done enough talking up to this point, you have to start talking now. Just you. Go" Like wtf. What do you say to that? My ex's cousin even had the nerve to ask me if I was a virgin too (My ex totally chastized her for being harsh with me like that). Man what is going on? Is there a ***** epidemic out there right now? An epidemic of women who lack empathy and enjoy "picking apart" men?


"I don't want to be judgmental, BUT I will be..."
You do realize that in this day and age some women DON'T want to get married? And if she was "sexually experience/liberated" she could've been one of those. Not to mention 33 is not old. At all. You're complaining about how she didn't laugh at your gay anecdotes or whatever because she's a conservative and not liberal "like you thought," yet you go and say something so simple-minded as "she's 30 and single for a reason! ha-ha!"



phoenixwright said:


> Au lait and the other chicks takjng her side: Did you even read the nasty **** she was saying to me or are you taking her side because she's female? Do you want me to point out in bullet form all the nasty things she said in case you forgot?
> 
> If you turn the genders around and it was a non-SA guy and a SA girl, you'd think the non-SA party (the guy) was an *** in this situation.
> 
> Whatever. Go ahead and put the blame on me.


Jesus H Christ. No one is defending her, but you're not coming off as the most sensible person right now. You're judging her based on her age and the fact that she's "still" single at the oh-so old age of 33 (you do realize you'll be her age pretty soon, too, right?). If anyone is holding double-standards here, it's you. I could give a rat's *** about her. In fact, she does seem like an *******, but you are going down to that level by making sexist comments about her age and generalizations about women. You can be sad and disappointed about your date, but don't blame it all on her.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

AllToAll said:


> This should've pretty much concluded the whole discussion. She was a smartass and you were too quiet.


Agreed. There was more I could have said. Kind of hard to think on your feet like that when you feel attacked.



> Because she's not your boss or teacher.


What do you say to a girl who tells you, "you don't do this dating thing much do you?" She was insulting me. I felt disrespected. To be honest with you, I wanted to get up from our table and leave as soon as I paid my tab after I felt attacked like that. But I figured that doing so would be "giving in" to my social anxiety disorder and what not. I felt disrespected though. I didn't like this person. I felt like she was looking down on me. It's hard to make with conversation when you just want to get out of there and can't stand the person in front of you.

I failed to interject non-work details about myself in response to the stuff she was saying about herself. That's something I need to work on. When I go on dates with nicer girls.



> "I don't want to be judgmental, BUT I will be..."
> You do realize that in this day and age some women DON'T want to get married? And if she was "sexually experience/liberated" she could've been one of those. Not to mention 33 is not old. At all. You're complaining about how she didn't laugh at your gay anecdotes or whatever because she's a conservative and not liberal "like you thought," yet you go and say something so simple-minded as "she's 30 and single for a reason! ha-ha!"


Not every 33 year old never married woman is the same. I was going into this hoping that she was going to be this "cougar" who would prey on me and corrupt me or something (I've had a sexual offer from a woman like this. But I found her repulsive on the outside and inside so I declined.) Instead, I got the impression that she was one of those bitter, judgmental Sex and the City spinsters. Except the girls on Sex and the City would probably appreciate 15" dildo talk (ok maybe not Charlotte.)



> but you are going down to that level by making sexist comments about her age and generalizations about women. THAT'S why other users have turned against you, because you don't deserve any sympathy right now. You can be sad and disappointed about your date, but don't blame it all on her.


Yeah I shouldn't be going down to that level. You are right. I don't judge every single woman whose 33+ and never married. But when you dislike someone, you say things like "oh so that's why you are 33+ and never married!" If I really held a universally negative view of 33 year old single women, I would stop pursuing older woman. She won't be the last one I pursue (though I have a preference for younger women). And I'm not blaming it all on her. I feel it was doomed no matter what. But there were some areas for improvement I need to target.


----------



## Ironpain (Aug 8, 2010)

Good times last night, got you out, got you relaxed but it was great hanging out with you last night anyways. When in doubt bro you need to remember the golden rule if the first words out of your mouth sounds like something Rob would say you need to catch yourself, be aware of what you are saying. Word of advice don't talk about that other stuff (the work stuff you can interject later on) but anything Rob like is just going to get you in trouble bro.

When she was throwing you Q's she was giving you a chance to actively listen and ask questions, for example You could ask her something like have you ever come on a date or out with friends here before, if she was from somewhere else she would have replied. 

Actually this is my first time here I just moved here from where ever, you could have said maybe I've run into you I was up there before say what part ask her how often she goes back and crack a smile, I try and come out here every week, one of my favorite bands, have you ever heard them before? this is just an example.

Early on she was giving you opportunity to feed off of what she was saying, I was not privy to your convo bro so I can't tell you what exactly you should have said to what she said but when she asked you to talk about yourself, she was showing you that she was interested in you, she didn't need an entire life story, talk about what your goals and aspirations are, talk about where you see yourself at the moment. 

Before you went on this date you had to have known you would have to talk about yourself and talking about Work is a very bland subject matter, you have to learn the art of humor and I don't mean Dirty Rob humor either, you want lighten the mood. 

Things just become too awkward, you have to head you just over thought the situation, she was no better with the way she spoke to you but it wasn't hard to figure out that she eventually felt you knew enough about her she felt you should interject something about yourself and on a side note the conversation would have flowed if you had actively listened and interjected some comments based on what she was saying. 

Your a nice guy you just need to avoid the Rob effect, you said she was worried about your immaturity if you are going to bring up sex related stuff right off the bat she's going to be really uncomfortable don't force things, I'm only telling you this as your bro I'm not trying to beat up on you I know what that feels like about things in my life but you should know as one of your best friends that you are going to stumble and fall, don't beat yourself up either because you'll learn your lesson for next time. 

DO NOT SAY: "Sorry if you don’t hear me talk much, I’m boring when it comes to conversations." Or, "I hate it when I always...." Or, "I suck at...."
Even if you don’t mean these things, because you say it yourself, your date may take it seriously and have a decreased confidence in your potential as a man who is fascinating and interesting.

What did you say on your profile? you should have used that, what ever attracted her to you in the first place gave you little hints,unless they were lies of course than you don't want to go there but remember what I said keep it real bro and recognize what I'm saying you feel me?
Basically when you are talking about yourself give her enough info on your likes, dislikes, where you like spending time with your family, ask her does she have any siblings, anyways I don't mean to stress you even more PW so be chill my bro and loosen up or you'll end up like me stiff and always stressing about stuff.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> Not every 33 year old never married woman is the same. I was going into this hoping that she was going to be this "cougar" who would prey on me and corrupt me or something (I've had a sexual offer from a woman like this. But I found her repulsive on the outside and inside so I declined.) Instead, I got the impression that she was one of those bitter, judgmental Sex and the City spinsters. Except the girls on Sex and the City would probably appreciate 15" dildo talk (ok maybe not Charlotte.)


Exactly. There you go again with the judgments. She's not a cougar. She's a woman who wanted to go out on a date. It still doesn't sink in that she's not much older and you're not that young. Get over her age already. Why are you referring to her as a spinster? That's so unnecessary and sexist.



> Yeah I shouldn't be going down to that level. You are right. I don't judge every single woman whose 33+ and never married. *But when you dislike someone, you say things like "oh so that's why you are 33+ and never married!" *If I really held a universally negative view of 33 year old single women, I would stop pursuing older woman. She won't be the last one I pursue (though I have a preference for younger women). And I'm not blaming it all on her. I feel it was doomed no matter what. But there were some areas for improvement I need to target.


You, perhaps, which is telling of the views you hold. It's like calling a black person N word in "the heat of the moment" when you wouldn't on a normal day; it's still telling of your views on race.


----------



## hypestyle (Nov 12, 2003)

i just want to meet someone who is genuinely interested in me, whether she's (slightly) older or I am..


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

AllToAll said:


> Exactly. There you go again with the judgments. She's not a cougar. She's a woman who wanted to go out on a date. It still doesn't sink in that she's not much older and you're not that young. Get over her age already. Why are you referring to her as a spinster? That's so unnecessary and sexist.
> 
> You, perhaps, which is telling of the views you hold. It's like calling a black person N word in "the heat of the moment" when you wouldn't on a normal day; it's still telling of your views on race.


Sexist this. Sexist that. God I'm glad I didnt get matched up with you on okcupid.

I got matched up with a woman with a lot of attitude and I was frustrated and took it too personally. And could have talked more. That's it.

I do have to learn not to take scenarios like this too seriously. Like she mentioned that what she was saying (about herself outside of work, which is the only thing i can relate to since we work in the same field) was bouncing off my head. That's a sign of disinterest on my part and she sensed that and decided to get defensive and attack me. I need to find someone else that actually interests me. Someone I can relate to. Now this is an area where I'm weak. I find it hard to relate to most women. We dont have much in common. I just smile and laugh and think about wanting to get them in bed. It's rare that I actually have a genuine interest in a girl. I know that sounds bad. But I can't control who I'm attracted to on a mental level. I'm more outgoing these days and my interests are more diverse these days. But I still find myself having the most fun with guys.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> Sexist this. Sexist that. God I'm glad I didnt get matched up with you on okcupid.


It is sexist. You wouldn't have called a man spinster if he were 33 and never married. You were judging/insulting her based on her sex. Simple as that.
Lucky for you (and me) I don't have an OKCupid account.



> I got matched up with a woman with a lot of attitude and I was frustrated and took it too personally. And could have talked more. That's it.


If only you'd left it at that.



> I do have to learn not to take scenarios like this too seriously. Like she mentioned that what she was saying (about herself outside of work, which is the only thing i can relate to since we work in the same field) was bouncing off my head. That's a sign of disinterest on my part and she sensed that and decided to get defensive and attack me. I need to find someone else that actually interests me. Someone I can relate to. Now this is an area where I'm weak. I find it hard to relate to most women. We dont have much in common. I just smile and laugh and think about wanting to get them in bed. It's rare that I actually have a genuine interest in a girl. I know that sounds bad. But I can't control who I'm attracted to on a mental level. I'm more outgoing these days and my interests are more diverse these days. But I still find myself having the most fun with guys.


If you keep making men and women seem as different as day and night you're never going to find anything in common with one. 
Good luck.


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

I think cause he doesn't connect well with women people are thinking he's sexist.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't like how everyone, besides River, is ignoring that she wore a hoodie to a date.

A hoodie


on a date.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

AllToAll said:


> It is sexist. You wouldn't have called a man spinster if he were 33 and never married. You were judging/insulting her based on her sex. Simple as that.
> Lucky for you (and me) I don't have an OKCupid account.


i would have called the guy a douche and confirmed bachelor (male equivalent) if he acted like her.



> If you keep making men and women seem as different as day and night you're never going to find anything in common with one.
> Good luck.


maybe. But there are certain ways you can relate with a man that you can't a woman. This guy I barely knew at a bar. He talked about how he could go for a blowjob right about now and we bonded like cavemen talking about chicks and sex. Can't do thy with a chick. I'm forced by default to be more reserved around women.

And I have more in common with men in general.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

If anyone is confused by that last statement I'd just like to make it clear that cavemen were notoriously good at bonding.


----------



## meganmila (Jul 25, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> maybe. But there are certain ways you can relate with a man that you can't a woman. This guy I barely knew at a bar. He talked about how he could go for a blowjob right about now and we bonded like cavemen talking about chicks and sex. Can't do thy with a chick. I'm forced by default to be more reserved around women.


Looks like you have been around the wrong kind of women lol.


----------



## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

AllToAll said:


> You, perhaps, which is telling of the views you hold. It's like calling a black person N word in "the heat of the moment" when you wouldn't on a normal day; it's still telling of your views on race.


Wow. No.

People are WAY too quick to throw out the word "sexist." While what he said may have been rude and a little douchey, it's not inherently misogynistic. It's not like he said every 33-year-old unwed woman is like that; he was talking about THIS woman specifically. Huge difference.

What you're saying is more along the lines of him getting into an argument with this girl and being like, "Shut up, *****! Women shouldn't even be allowed to speak! Get back in the kitchen."

What he did was more along the lines of getting into an argument with a black guy who, say, complains about being discriminated against due to racism and being like, "People don't hate you because you're black. They hate you because you're an *******." Is he saying every black person who complains about racism is really just an ******* that nobody likes? No. He's talking about that specific one.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

phoenixwright said:


> i would have called the guy a douche and confirmed bachelor (male equivalent) if he acted like her.


Female equivalent of bachelor is bachelorette. Spinster has negative connotations whereas bachelor doesn't. You're making judgments based on her gender.



> maybe. But there are certain ways you can relate with a man that you can't a woman. This guy I barely knew at a bar. He talked about how he could go for a blowjob right about now and we bonded like cavemen talking about chicks and sex. Can't do thy with a chick. I'm forced by default to be more reserved around women.
> 
> And I have more in common with men in general.


So you talk 24/7 about sex?



meganmila said:


> I think cause he doesn't connect well with women people are thinking he's sexist.


No, because of the way he's talking about this woman I think he's sexist.



Peter Attis said:


> Wow. No.
> 
> People are WAY too quick to throw out the word "sexist." While what he said may have been rude and a little douchey, it's not inherently misogynistic. It's not like he said every 33-year-old unwed woman is like that; he was talking about THIS woman specifically. Huge difference.


You don't seem to get that had it been a man, he would've never made judgments on him based on his age and the fact that he was unmarried. He was insulting her (and laughing when rymo called her grandma) for being 33, single and unmarried. He called her a spinster, for christ's sakes. I'm not just throwing the word sexist around like confetti. I'm calling it like I see.
Not to mention if the genders were reversed, no one would've remarked on the oh-so huge age difference he kept pointing at since the beginning of the thread.



> What you're saying is more along the lines of him getting into an argument with this girl and being like, "Shut up, *****! Women shouldn't even be allowed to speak! Get back in the kitchen."


Eh, that's pretty sexist considering you said what he wrote isn't sexist...



> What he did was more along the lines of getting into an argument with a black guy who, say, complains about being discriminated against due to racism and being like, "People don't hate you because you're black. They hate you because you're an *******." Is he saying every black person who complains about racism is really just an ******* that nobody likes? No. He's talking about that specific one.


He was making generalizations based on her sex; it's the same as making generalizations based on race.


----------



## Jollygoggles (Mar 3, 2011)

Call off your hounds, AllToAll. That's enough.

You think he's sexist. Well done. NEXT!


----------



## Taija (Nov 3, 2008)

Jollygoggles said:


> I don't like how everyone, besides River, is ignoring that she wore a hoodie to a date.
> 
> A hoodie
> 
> on a date.


I don't see a huge problem with that?

I guess it really depens on the person. If it's a big, baggy, boring hoodie, I could see why it's a problem, but there are a lot of good-looking hoodies and it fits with some people's style.

I personally like to wear a small, tight hoodie and kind of hippie-looking baggy pants when the weather is cold (when it's warmer, it's a mini-skirt and a tank top all the way).



phoenixwright said:


> maybe. But there are certain ways you can relate with a man that you can't a woman. This guy I barely knew at a bar. He talked about how he could go for a blowjob right about now and we bonded like cavemen talking about chicks and sex. Can't do thy with a chick. I'm forced by default to be more reserved around women.
> 
> And I have more in common with men in general.


The way you keep talking about sex seems very strange to me.

I mean, a lot of people like having sex and talking about it. But for some reason, you seem to find the need to point out in every single post how much you love sex and how great and confident you are in bed. You even heavily criticised this woman for not wanting to chat about sexual things with you as well as for not being a "cougar" and as sexually forward as you would have liked, as if how people act on the first date defines their openness and sexuality.

Are you playing down your own insecurities and boosting your ego by emphasizing this one thing you feel you're great at? The fact that you started talking about dildos and strippers on the first date also kind of implies that you were trying to use that one thing you feel comfortable about to impress and make you feel better about yourself (and when she didn't respond well to that, you felt hurt and nervous). I can see why a person with SA would do that (I've actually done that, too - once I was being very quiet and nervous around a guy so I just started talking about sex to make myself seem confident).

And you know, a lot of women do like talking about sex. More than you would even imagine. I have no problem talking about my sex life (which includes whips, restraints and force, as well as one foursome) with my friends, men or women, and I know a lot of girls who are just as open as me. You probably just started talking about it the wrong kind of way or she would rather get to know you a bit first before getting into that kind of stuff (it was a date and not a hook up, right?).


----------



## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

AllToAll said:


> No, because of the way he's talking about this woman I think he's sexist.


Yeah, THIS woman. He is talking about ONE specific woman. The fact that he called her a spinster has to do with the fact that she was rude to him on the date, not the fact that she's a woman.



> You don't seem to get that had it been a man, he would've never made judgments on him based on his age and the fact that he was unmarried.


1. We don't know that.
2. He's said otherwise in this thread.
3. The situation would have been entirely different because they wouldn't have been on a date.



> He was insulting her (and laughing when rymo called her grandma) for being 33, single and unmarried. He called her a spinster, for christ's sakes.


Insulting her because he felt she was rude to him on a date. You think he would have said that had the date gone WELL?

Immature, yes. Sexist, no.



> I'm calling it like I see.


Yeah, and so is he. He's not (necessarily) sexist for that.



> Not to mention if the genders were reversed, no one would've remarked on the oh-so huge age difference he kept pointing at since the beginning of the thread.


That's because of the general taboo of younger men and older women. Take that up with society, not him.



> Eh, that's pretty sexist considering you said what he wrote isn't sexist...


Wait... what are you even trying to say here?



> He was making generalizations based on her sex; it's the same as making generalizations based on race.


No, he was saying, "I see why you're still single at 33 because you're rude and aggressive," just like in the example, he would be saying, "I see why people don't like you because you're rude and aggressive." Sex and race have are not part of the equation.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

Peter Attis said:


> Yeah, THIS woman. He is talking about ONE specific woman. The fact that he called her a spinster has to do with the fact that she was rude to him on the date, not the fact that she's a woman.


Yes, and making some big generalizations about her. This is just one example.



> 1. We don't know that.
> 2. He's said otherwise in this thread.
> 3. The situation would have been entirely different because they wouldn't have been on a date.


1. He called her a spinster. There's no male equivalent for that word. Had the genders had been turned, no one would've called her grandma and his age wouldn't have been an issue to judge him.
2. That doesn't mean anything when his previous words are evidence of the opposite.
3. Good one?



> Insulting her because he felt she was rude to him on a date. You think he would have said that had the date gone WELL?


Yeah, call her an ******* or a *****. Don't make personal insults based on her gender. It's the same as my previous example.



> Immature, yes. Sexist, no.


Immature? Yes. Sexist? Definitely yes.



> Yeah, and so is he. He's not (necessarily) sexist for that.


So she's a spinster because she's 33 and unmarried? That's not calling it like you see it; that's making an assumption on someone using their gender. Again, no one would call a 33 year-old, single man a spinster. He'd be a bachelor, which has positive connotations.



> That's because of the general taboo of younger men and older women. Take that up with society, not him.


He's part of society, so whatever negative tropes he's perpetuating I will point out.



> Wait... what are you even trying to say here?


I was referring to your (poor excuse of an) analogy.



> No, he was saying, "I see why you're still single at 33 because you're rude and aggressive," just like in the example, he would be saying, "I see why people don't like you because you're rude and aggressive." Sex and race have are not part of the equation.


Race doesn't, but gender does. The fact that you wish to ignore is on you.
After that statement (the one you paraphrased) he went on to say "I don't want to make judgments on women who are 33 and never married, but *insert generalization*." He was making generalizations about women in their 30s based on this archaic idea that women, if unmarried in their 30s, are old, bitter maids (i.e. spinster).


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

Taija said:


> The way you keep talking about sex seems very strange to me.
> 
> I mean, a lot of people like having sex and talking about it. But for some reason, you seem to find the need to point out in every single post how much you love sex and how great and confident you are in bed. You even heavily criticised this woman for not wanting to chat about sexual things with you as well as for not being a "cougar" and as sexually forward as you would have liked, as if how people act on the first date defines their openness and sexuality.
> 
> Are you playing down your own insecurities and boosting your ego by emphasizing this one thing you feel you're great at? The fact that you started talking about dildos and strippers on the first date also kind of implies that you were trying to use that one thing you feel comfortable about to impress and make you feel better about yourself (and when she didn't respond well to that, you felt hurt and nervous). I can see why a person with SA would do that (I've actually done that, too - once I was being very quiet and nervous around a guy so I just started talking about sex to make myself seem confident).


That's exactly what I was thinking. His proceeding comments have all involved sex as if that's what "defines" him, or what he's actually able to talk about.



> And you know, a lot of women do like talking about sex. More than you would even imagine. I have no problem talking about my sex life (which includes whips, restraints and force, as well as one foursome) with my friends, men or women, and I know a lot of girls who are just as open as me. *You probably just started talking about it the wrong kind of way or she would rather get to know you a bit first before getting into that kind of stuff* (it was a date and not a hook up, right?).


True. I don't have a problem with weird dildo anecdotes, but not within 20 minutes of knowing you. It would seem very creepy to me.


----------



## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

AllToAll said:


> Yes, and making some big generalizations about her. This is just one example.
> 
> 1. He called her a spinster. There's no male equivalent for that word. Had the genders had been turned, no one would've called her grandma and his age wouldn't have been an issue to judge him.
> 2. That doesn't mean anything when his previous words are evidence of the opposite.
> ...


I'm just gonna respond to this in one fell swoop.

You're just seeing what you want to see, just like in that thread where the guy was talking about his wife taking care of the house while he was at work. He called her a spinster not because she was 33 and single, but because she was RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE to him. Would people look negatively on a man who was 33 and single? That depends. Is he rude to women? Awkward around them? Because if so, they certainly would, especially if he were (heaven forbid) a virgin/inexperienced.

I'm getting really tired of this "faux feminist" mantra where apparently you can't say anything to a woman without being called a sexist, especially when he was talking about ONE SPECIFIC WOMAN.

There are some cases (on this board especially) where the sexism card can be thrown out, but this isn't one of them.


----------



## AllToAll (Jul 6, 2011)

Peter Attis said:


> I'm just gonna respond to this in one fell swoop.
> 
> You're just seeing what you want to see, just like in that thread where the guy was talking about his wife taking care of the house while he was at work.


Of course, I want to see sexist comments from strangers. It really makes my day....?
I use the information given by the OP when I write my posts. Check back to the thread of the wife cleaning the house (where I never posted he was sexist, fyi) if you need some clarification.



> He called her a spinster not because she was 33 and single, but because she was RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE to him. Would people look negatively on a man who was 33 and single? That depends. Is he rude to women? Awkward around them? Because if so, they certainly would, especially if he were (heaven forbid) a virgin/inexperienced.


Do you know the definition of spinster? How about the history of the word? Calling a woman a spinster is basically calling her an expired product. It's a derogatory term referring to an older woman past her prime. He may not have been talking about a number of women (hence my example of the N word), but he is using a word that stems from a double standard (i.e. he's a bachelor she's an old maid/spinster). A word used to put *women* down; to shame them for not being married or with children. Again why I wrote this wouldn't have even been an issue had the genders been reversed.



> I'm getting really tired of this "faux feminist" mantra where apparently you can't say anything to a woman without being called a sexist, especially when he was talking about ONE SPECIFIC WOMAN.


You can call a woman an *******, dumb ****, an idiot, whatever insult you'd prefer, but when it's derived from her gender, when it's used to put her down/judge her as a woman, _that's_ sexist. It's not some "faux feminist mantra," but these insults have been normalized in society to the extent where putting women down is A-OK.



> There are some cases (on this board especially) where the sexism card can be thrown out, but this isn't one of them.


I beg to differ.


----------



## au Lait (Sep 8, 2010)

Peter Attis said:


> He called her a spinster not because she was 33 and single, but because she was RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE to him. Would people look negatively on a man who was 33 and single? That depends. Is he rude to women? Awkward around them? Because if so, they certainly would, especially if he were (heaven forbid) a virgin/inexperienced.


He didn't though. He specifically related it to her being a woman who is over 30 and single. As I recall, he flat out said something along the lines of something being wrong with women who are over 30 and not married:



phoenixwright said:


> I think it's safe to say that many of them are still single for a very good reason or two


He wasn't talking about his date specifically, but women as a group. If you think it's wrong for people to judge male virgins, then you should take issue with a woman being called a spinster as well, otherwise you are being a hypocrite. If someone had said something like that about a male virgin the thread would have turned into a total **** storm. But of course it's totes ok to throw that kind of judgement at an older woman. There have even been posts by other members calling her "an old witch" and other derogatory names. If such comments had been posted about a male virgin, I guarantee that many people on the site would not hesitate to call the OP on it, and their opposing POV would not be questioned or dismissed. But when similar comments are made about a women and anyone tries to call the OP on it, that person gets labeled as a crazy "feminazi" and written off.



Peter Attis said:


> I'm getting really tired of this "faux feminist" mantra where apparently you can't say anything to a woman without being called a sexist, especially when he was talking about ONE SPECIFIC WOMAN.


You can say and feel whatever you want about women. But if it's a negative generalization based on gender then expect people of that gender to call you out on it. The same thing would happen if you made a negative generalization based on race. If the things you are saying about women make you feel like you are constantly being called sexist, then maybe it's time to take a look at the things you are saying, rather than getting mad at feminism for existing.

The initial post may have been based on one specific women, but there were a few instances in the thread where the OP linked her behavior to being a woman in general, and not just the behavior of one specific woman.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

If a guy is a male virgin and a douchebag, I'd say "no wonder he's a virgin." I don't automatically judge all older females who are single


----------



## Peter Attis (Aug 31, 2009)

au Lait said:


> He wasn't talking about his date specifically, but women as a group.


No, not women as a group, a group of women. Huge difference.



phoenixwright said:


> If a guy is a male virgin and a douchebag, I'd say "no wonder he's a virgin." I don't automatically judge all older females who are single


Also, that.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

I've got another date lined up with a girl (not the one at work) and her digits. LIKE A BOSS! This one is 20 years old. So 6-7 years my juniour (reverse situation! lol). We talked more online than I did with the older woman (via instant messaging this time instead of e-mail). I met this 20 year old off a hookup site. We hit it off. I asked her out to drinks and she said sounds good. But it won't be for another week since she's in the process of moving (to my city) and just joined the site. 

I think there is a good chance I'm getting it in with this new one. I'm getting a good vibe from her. She's on the shy side. But she's responding rather well to my assertiveness. I can tell she's in that giddy stage a girl is in when a cute guy is interested. Just so you know I'm not looking to wife up this one. Just a fling. For me to even consider a relationship with a girl, she has to be a 7 (this one is more like a 5. But with a pleasant personality this time). I refuse to settle because I don't want to give up on love. It's not the same when the girl is into you but you're not all that into her.

I'm not going to give up on my cougar hunt. RAWR! But yeah I guess it's easier for me to vibe with a girl 6-7 years younger than me. Instead of going 6-7 years older.

While scarpia insists that my conversational skills suck, I think I under-rate myself in that area if anything. I'm not that bad at conversation. I just need to be more assertive and trust my instincts more. Because if I do, this will lead me to the woman right for me. There are lots of women who won't like "my style" but you can't please everyone. Rymo is right there. I don't think it's that I ****ed up with a lot of these other women. It's probably just that they just weren't that into me in the first place or a bad match/no chemistry/no common interests/etc. 

You can't expect me to be a good conversationalist when I don't find myself "into" the conversation with the person or find it difficult to relate to them. Unless good conversationalist also means knowing how to be a good bull****ter (in terms of real-life utility, that's probably true though! At work lunches/dinners, I'm often tuned out and bored out of my mind and this doesn't reflect well on me). Then I'm definitely a bad conversationalist. Guilty as charged.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

phoenixwright;1060157831 said:



> While scarpia insists that my conversational skills suck, I think I under-rate myself in that area if anything. I'm not that bad at conversation. I just need to be more assertive and trust my instincts more. Because if I do, this will lead me to the woman right for me. There are lots of women who won't like "my style" but you can't please everyone. Rymo is right there. I don't think it's that I ****ed up with a lot of these other women. It's probably just that they just weren't that into me in the first place or a bad match/no chemistry/no common interests/etc.
> 
> You can't expect me to be a good conversationalist when I don't find myself "into" the conversation with the person or find it difficult to relate to them. Unless good conversationalist also means knowing how to be a good bull****ter (in terms of real-life utility, that's probably true though! At work lunches/dinners, I'm often tuned out and bored out of my mind and this doesn't reflect well on me). Then I'm definitely a bad conversationalist. Guilty as charged.


You don't relate well to women in any way except for wanting to have sex with them. So you are only a good conversationalist about sex. That is not going to cut it with most women.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

scarpia said:


> You don't relate well to women in any way except for wanting to have sex with them. So you are only a good conversationalist about sex. That is not going to cut it with most women.


I can relate to women in other ways. But I do find that in general, it's a lot easier for me to relate to men. And generally, men tend to be more fun to be around as companions.

Also this far I only said something sexual once thus far (were texting now too). When I stated my liking of cunnilingus (just a little something for her to think about before our date. lol). It fit perfectly into the context of the coversation even though it doesnt have to do with sex (I seem to always find a way... LOL)

I have to admit that much of the vibing going on probably goes back to sexual tension even though we're not talking about sex. It's not like "zomg we have so much in common." it's just there's an implicit understanding that I want sex and she wants sex. And Im just being myself. Cracking jokes (non-sexual ones too. Im a well-rounded comedian. I love sarcasm. But I make sure to put jk at the end of text messages to signal when I am being sarcastic. My sarcastic humor has got me in trouble before with people. Same with neg hits. I used those before I even knew they were a concept in pua. Because its part of my natural personality to poke fun at people.

EDIT: we are carrying on a lengthy text message conversation with me taking on a more assertive role (she seems to be the shy type.) not talking about sex. I don't think I'm doing badly at all. I'm a pretty knowledgeable guy who can talk about a lot of ****. I think chemistry and the vibe the girl puts out probably has something to do with the variance in results. Also confidence on my part.


----------



## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

If this ever happens again you say I gotta go the washroom and get up and leave. It actually happened to me once. lol!


----------



## XxArmyofOnexX (Aug 13, 2007)

opcorn


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Have you worked out how to answer if she asks "Tell me about yourself"?


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

scarpia said:


> Have you worked out how to answer if she asks "Tell me about yourself"?


I've already built up enough sexual tension that I'm confident that I can let my penis just take the steering wheel here.

I already have some ideas about what I'd say to tell me about yourself but she isn't the ***** man-eater type anyway.

I'm concentrating more on this other girl that I'm actually interested in beyond sex. Met her in-person. Hit it off. Got her number. Texted a good bit yesterday. Going to set up a first date with her. The plan is to have sex on the first date with the girl I just want a fling with and then end it when I get in a relationship with the girl I really want. It's all legal. You can't have one-itis. Girls are playing the field too. Explore free agency until the exclusivity is official.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

26 dating an 33 year old woman is hardly an age gap in relationships


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

joinmartin said:


> I agree girls are playing the field too. Just be sure that the girl you want just a fling with knows what's going on and that you're not serious about her.
> 
> In fact, if there's a girl you want then why not just go for her in the first place? I mean, would you like being the guy that some girl didn't really want but ended up with anyway?
> 
> ...


I'm going for both of them to keep my options open. In case things fall through with the one I want, I have the "fling" option with the other girl. I'm going to ask out the one I want on a date today. Coffee date. Nothing special. I met her in-person on Saturday, we hit it off, talked for about 15 minutes, I got her number. Texted a good bit Sunday. Text with her some more today and ask her to meet me for coffee.

The one I want a fling with, we've already agreed to drinks. But it's not confirmed yet when her move-in date will be (she's new to town). She's hoping she moves in tomorrow.

But if all goes well with the girl I want, I might go with that one for coffee tomorrow and then delay the other girl until the next day. And hopefully it goes well with the preferred girl, we build more rapport, get to know each other more and I go for the kiss and it works out. Maybe we could even do something after coffee if she wants (if the date turns out well). The one I want has social anxiety so I'm concerned she might think I'm too aggressive if I go to kiss her on the first date. A friend of mine suggested to go for the cheek and then from there see if she wants me to take it further. Don't know if going for the cheek would be considered a weak move or what. I never was good at making the first moves unless the girl gave a dead obvious signal that she wanted me to kiss her.


----------



## hasbeenpugged (Nov 10, 2013)

Something about this thread makes me a bit nauseous.


----------



## brooke_brigham (Nov 28, 2013)

hasbeenpugged said:


> Something about this thread makes me a bit nauseous.


so you bumped it up from 2 years ago??


----------



## hasbeenpugged (Nov 10, 2013)

There is a behavioral pattern in this form that can be found even now in some threads.
To be honest, I don't even know how I got to this thread.


----------



## phoenixwright (Jun 22, 2011)

hasbeenpugged said:


> Something about this thread makes me a bit nauseous.


There is nothing wrong with simultaneously going on dates with multiple girls. Oneitis is the worst possible thing you could pick up. You should never pursue a girl exclusively until you've already had sex with her or she's made it clear that you are boyfriend/girlfriend or exclusive. Women often go on dates with multiple guys at once themselves. Though a lot of them still just want that one alpha male and will only consider one candidate at a time.


----------



## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

hasbeenpugged said:


> *There is a behavioral pattern* in this form that can be found even now in some threads.
> To be honest, I don't even know how I got to this thread.


what pattern? You mean like bumping necro threads because they dont want to restart a new thread?


----------



## hasbeenpugged (Nov 10, 2013)

Nothing wrong with the idea of going out with different girls at the same time, given that you are honest about your intentions.

This thread revival was unintentional, as I got here through a related link, not observing the time stamp.


----------



## hypestyle (Nov 12, 2003)

i wish I could meet a hot older woman who doesn't mind a guy with little 'experience'--


----------



## Alienated (Apr 17, 2013)

My last girl fiend was 11 years older than me, I was 28 and she was 39... Oh dude it was like heaven, we dated 6 months and NEVER argued... NOT once !! It could be a good thing you got, just relax and let her lead... She knows what she wants, and if she is mature, she will let you know.


----------



## To22 (Apr 6, 2012)

Rymo's advice is a gift from the heavens


blessed be his name


----------

