# How did you manage to get a partner since you've got SA?



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

This question is mainly for the males because we're the ones that usually have to initiate things with the opposite sex.

So, how the hell did you get a girlfriend/have a girlfriend? Is it because you have generalised SA and you're not shy around girls?

Thanks.


----------



## Kardax (Dec 29, 2004)

Oh, that's easy: we haven't 

Actually, there are a couple lucky ones out there who might reply to this... you should visit the Relationships forum here (bottom of the list) to find many posts on this subject.

-Ryan


----------



## mserychic (Oct 2, 2004)

From this site woo!


----------



## Mellah (Nov 10, 2003)

I found my bf through my little brother. They are friends and he found out that he had SA so my brother told me and got his screen name and we started talking online and finally met about 4/5 years ago and have been together since


----------



## FearNoMore (Mar 29, 2006)

I was lucky because my wife pursued me in the beginning. I guess this gave me courage to grit my teeth and pursue her back after that. Looking back though, I sure wish I had been able to date earlier in life. I am just fortunate that my wife is a wonderful person. I had a girlfriend briefly in high school, but she couldn't deal with me. I never dated anyone else until I met my wife ten years ago. Sorry I don't have any advice for you. Good luck to you though, I know things can get better for you!


----------



## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Yep, I've had girls initially approach me and make the first move because I didn't have the balls to do it. 

It is not until last year that I learned as a man that rejection is a huge part of the dating game. You have to make the first move and expect to get shot down a lot. Brush yourself off and move on.

Woman have it easier in this respect and can get away with a lot more. But really, if a woman is ultra shy, it will be difficult for her to get a partner as well.

Good luck.


----------



## missnat84 (Dec 31, 2004)

I met my bf at work,he was the one who asked me to go out with him and he asked me three times on different occasions before i eventually said yes :lol


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

It's just as hard for a female as for a male. A male will ask a woman out that he likes. A woman gets asked out by a man she may or may not like. Or she may not get asked at all.  Then when he says those three little words, "I'll call you," she waits for a call that's likely not to come.

I called a guy I'd known to some degree most of my life (he was the brother of a childhood friend and his parents lived next door to me) and asked him out because he'd been flirting with me and hitting on me whenever I ran into him, even just shortly before I called. He turned me down because he said he was living with his girlfriend. Guess he left that part out when he hit on me. Can't win sometimes. 

So, I disagree that it's easier for women. 

On another note, this was brought up somewhere else on SAS and I commented there that I can't believe that it's still frowned upon, generally speaking, for a female to call a man and ask him out. 

Girls were calling my older brother on the phone almost every day 35 years ago!!! Why is there a stigma to that today? 

I say screw stereotypes, and women should be able to call a guy without a stigma attached to it. 

A lot of guys say they're flattered when a women makes the move. Come on guys, is this true? Would you want a woman to call you?

For a shy guy, if you just can't ask a woman you like out, then, if you have the opportunity and think she'd be receptive to you, give her your phone number and let her know she can call you. Let her know you'd like it if she called you, in fact. If you're interested in a woman who doesn't have SA or has it mildly, this would probably work well.  The ball is then in her court, so to speak. Women have been going through this for as long as there've been phones. :b 

Dating for both sides is risky to one's ego, especially a fragile ego.


----------



## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

Veggie1 said:


> It's just as hard for a female as for a male. A male will ask a woman out that he likes. A woman gets asked out by a man she may or may not like. Or she may not get asked at all. Then when he says those three little words, "I'll call you," she waits for a call that's likely not to come.
> 
> So, I disagree that it's easier for women.
> 
> A lot of guys say they're flattered when a women makes the move. Come on guys, is this true? Would you want a woman to call you?


So you think it's as easy to approach someone as it it to get asked out? I disagree. If i could just hang out somewhere and a girl came up to me and asked if we could do something in the evening everything would be much easier.

And if he says i'll call you why wouldn't he if he aprroached the girl.

I'd love women to call me. Go ahead :banana


----------



## redkit (Mar 14, 2006)

My observation and experience says it much much more easier for shy women to find a date. They only need to say yes.
I live in Turkey and I visit the native forums for SA. All of the female members have partners or partnership experiences and nearly all of the male members are virgins.
However, I dont claim shy women are luckier because no love relationship means no problem and every love relationship causes brain damage.


----------



## PBNC (Mar 4, 2006)

I met my husband on the Internet - I had posted a very honest, very specific personal ad on craigslist, he responded, and the rest is history.


----------



## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

I met my gf off this site.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

FearNoMore said:


> I was lucky because my wife pursued me in the beginning. I guess this gave me courage to grit my teeth and pursue her back after that. Looking back though, I sure wish I had been able to date earlier in life. I am just fortunate that my wife is a wonderful person. I had a girlfriend briefly in high school, but she couldn't deal with me. I never dated anyone else until I met my wife ten years ago. Sorry I don't have any advice for you. Good luck to you though, I know things can get better for you!


Things will never get better, I'm 30 and not one woman in the whole of my life has ever shown interest in me.


----------



## FearNoMore (Mar 29, 2006)

Things will never get better, I'm 30 and not one woman in the whole of my life has ever shown interest in me.[/quote]

I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. Perhaps women have shown interest in you, but you just never noticed. I have had women tell me that they gave up giving me hints that they were interested because I never showed any interest back. We often live life with blinders on, only seeing what we choose or are able to see. I am absolutely positively confident that there are women out there who would be interested in you, if they could get to know you. Please hang in there!


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

> So you think it's as easy to approach someone as it it to get asked out? I disagree. If i could just hang out somewhere and a girl came up to me and asked if we could do something in the evening everything would be much easier.
> 
> And if he says i'll call you why wouldn't he if he aprroached the girl.
> 
> I'd love women to call me. Go ahead


I've been on both sides, asker and askee (I was turned down, as in above post). It's just as hard to be asked, because you know the guy likes you for whatever reason, and is waiting for a reply. When you have SA, like me, it is just as terrifying to get asked as it is to ask.

You may get asked by someone you're not interested in at all, which is a very difficult situation, to find a nice way to turn him down so as not to hurt his feelings. A man usually doesn't approach and ask a woman out he's not interested in, so that situation wouldn't even come up.

I'm referring to the common situation after the first date, where at the end of the date, a guy pretty much always says he'll call, but doesn't. It happens all the time.

Good for you to want a woman to call you! I still don't understand why there is stigma today for women to do that.


----------



## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

redkit said:


> My observation and experience says it much much more easier for shy women to find a date. They only need to say yes.


I am a shy woman, and I do not think it is easier for us because I don't even get asked out on dates. I have accepted that the only way for me to get a boyfriend is if I am the one initiating.


----------



## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

IMO it is tougher for guys as they have to do a large part of the pursuit and deal with the rejection the majority of the time. But it is not easy for shy woman either.


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Ross said:


> FearNoMore said:
> 
> 
> > I was lucky because my wife pursued me in the beginning. I guess this gave me courage to grit my teeth and pursue her back after that. Looking back though, I sure wish I had been able to date earlier in life. I am just fortunate that my wife is a wonderful person. I had a girlfriend briefly in high school, but she couldn't deal with me. I never dated anyone else until I met my wife ten years ago. Sorry I don't have any advice for you. Good luck to you though, I know things can get better for you!
> ...


Me either. Such is life when you aren't attractive...


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

FearNoMore said:


> Things will never get better, I'm 30 and not one woman in the whole of my life has ever shown interest in me.


I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. Perhaps women have shown interest in you, but you just never noticed. I have had women tell me that they gave up giving me hints that they were interested because I never showed any interest back. We often live life with blinders on, only seeing what we choose or are able to see. I am absolutely positively confident that there are women out there who would be interested in you, if they could get to know you. Please hang in there![/quote]

I've tried looking for signs of interest like women looking my way, but I always get nothing, they don't notice me.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm missing the magic ingredient which makes people attracted to you, like pheremones or something.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

Zephyr said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > FearNoMore said:
> ...


I'm not really sure whether I'm attractive or not, in the mirror and on some photo's I think I look really nice looking, but there's lot's of photo's where I do look ugly, plus girls have called me ugly too. So I honestly don't know.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

I suppose it depends on the situation, if I felt comfortable I'd naturally flirt back.

Anyway, even if I can't do anything about it it would still make me feel really really happy and would be so great for my well being for a woman to at least once show interest.

I can understand how it would kill you inside to not be able to do anything about it though, maybe I'd end up feeling like that too on the third or fourth time.

The first time a woman shown interest in me online, I was over the moon, but now if it happens, especially if they start talking about sexual stuff that they'd like to do with me, it feels very emotionally painfull since I can't do anything about it because they're always in a different country, and even if they lived the same country as me I still couldn't do anything about it becuase of my SA and having no money and no car.


----------



## itsmemaggi (Sep 26, 2005)

Met him here. Things were great. _Were._

xoxo
Maggi


----------



## FearNoMore (Mar 29, 2006)

I still cannot accept the comments about being ugly! Do you guys not think that there are women out there that think they are ugly also? I don't care if you think you are ugly. I am certain that there are women who think you are beautiful! I just know this is true! You guys are getting me fired up here! You are not thinking straight. Besides there are different kinds of ugly. I would much rather be with someone who is beautiful on the inside and ugly on the outside, compared to someone who is beautiful on the outside but ugly on the inside. You cannot give up hope. The "magic" that you are missing may have to do with your lack of belief in yourself. Women are attracted to confidence. I know it is extremely difficult to improve your confidence, but it can be done. Keep trying please.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

I used to belive in myself as far as attracting women is concerned but that still didn't make any difference.

I've just got to accept that I'm going to be single for the rest of my life.


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Ross said:


> The first time a woman shown interest in me online, I was over the moon, but now if it happens, especially if they start talking about sexual stuff that they'd like to do with me, it feels very emotionally painfull since I can't do anything about it because they're always in a different country, and even if they lived the same country as me I still couldn't do anything about it becuase of my SA and having no money and no car.


Ah, but you've gotten interest online? That's more than someone like me has had. So at least there's that hope for you. Me, I'm just as ignored in cyberspace as in real life.

You're Ross from that incel forum aren't you?


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

FearNoMore said:


> I still cannot accept the comments about being ugly! Do you guys not think that there are women out there that think they are ugly also? I don't care if you think you are ugly. I am certain that there are women who think you are beautiful! I just know this is true! You guys are getting me fired up here! You are not thinking straight. Besides there are different kinds of ugly. I would much rather be with someone who is beautiful on the inside and ugly on the outside, compared to someone who is beautiful on the outside but ugly on the inside. You cannot give up hope. The "magic" that you are missing may have to do with your lack of belief in yourself. Women are attracted to confidence. I know it is extremely difficult to improve your confidence, but it can be done. Keep trying please.


Some people just aren't good looking. I thought you would have realized that at some point. I wasn't born with the genes that women want to mix theirs with.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

Zephyr said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > The first time a woman shown interest in me online, I was over the moon, but now if it happens, especially if they start talking about sexual stuff that they'd like to do with me, it feels very emotionally painfull since I can't do anything about it because they're always in a different country, and even if they lived the same country as me I still couldn't do anything about it becuase of my SA and having no money and no car.
> ...


Yeah, how did you know?


----------



## Redferne (Feb 15, 2005)

redkit said:


> My observation and experience says it much much more easier for shy women to find a date. They only need to say yes.


How are you supposed to say "yes" when no one ever asks? :um

There's a guy who's been staring at me for over 6 months now - and still won't say a bloody word to me. And he's totally extroverted and friendly with other people. So what gives?! :stu


----------



## On the way (Feb 9, 2006)

Ross said:


> This question is mainly for the males because we're the ones that usually have to initiate things with the opposite sex.
> 
> So, how the hell did you get a girlfriend/have a girlfriend? Is it because you have generalised SA and you're not shy around girls?
> 
> Thanks.


I find it much, much easier to share myself with women via writing than in person. So, talking to and meeting women over the internet has, for the last decade, been my main way of finding girlfriends. I've always been pretty good at expressing myself in written form, so the 'net is an ideal place for me to start a relationship. That's how it's worked for me.


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

> Sing with me! "In the navy, Come on and join your fellow man, In the navy, Come on be bold and make a stand"


 Memorized the Village People, eh? Just teasing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. (again) :b


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

My post will be longer than the others, but I think it's pertinent to the topic, and it should be read fully (especially by the guys).

Ross... the next time you go outside for a long period of time, you should look at a bunch of the couples that you see paired up out there. You'll hardly find the so-called "perfect couple" that is exemplified by the media (TV, movies, magazines) walking hand in hand down the street. Likewise, "pretty" people aren't always hooking up with other "pretty" people, and "ugly" people aren't solely hooking up with "ugly" people. You'll come to notice that there are all kinds of pairings going on out there, and many of them don't fit any standard (physically or psychologically) whatsoever.

You seem to think (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's a kind of miracle if a guy with SA has a girlfriend/wife, and I think you may be selling guys with SA (yourself included) short. Try not to do that. It seems to me that life is a complex matter where relationships are concerned, and each person's circumstances for meeting a partner are different. Try not to generalize what every person with SA's situation should be based on assumptions.

In my case, I spent many years alone, afraid to go out and meet anyone for fear of being rejected. There have been several instances in my life where nice looking (some of them were actually what us guys would call "fine" looking) women would approach me and make a point to stand/sit next to me - in school, at bus stops, train stations, libraries, etc. - giving me every indication to introduce myself and talk to them.

Now, I am not a "GQ model type", but I do dress neatly and keep a clean-cut appearance. But none of that matters when you struggle with SA and the memories of past insults and humiliations get in the way of you taking advantage of the opportunities that most guys without SA would jump at. As a result of my fears, I reacted to each woman's interest in getting to know me by "looking down at the ground", or "burying my nose in a book", or just "staring into space", so to speak.

I let the fears that rose from the insults of people who weren't even worth thinking about keep me from taking the chances that most guys would have to take in order to meet a dateable girl in today's society. Most women (if their worth being with) are going to aproach a guy with some tact, and they're not going to just throw themselves in your lap and say "Take me, I'm yours."

But I wasn't thinking about that. Instead, I let negative thoughts like "maybe she's just a tease trying to get a rise out of me" or "maybe she's a golddigger who thinks I've got some cash to spend" or "maybe I'll open my mouth and come off sounding like a loser to her" keep me from pursuing someone who might have turned out to be my future girlfriend/wife.

I've been going to therapy and taking medication to lower my anxiety, and I've learned that the root of SA comes from our fear to deal with the things that most people deal with everyday on some level - failure, rejection, insult. It's a tough battle, but it's one we have to wage if we're ever going to get some happiness out of life.

I have a "date" set up this coming week for me with a girl through a mutual partnership between my therapist and one of her colleagues who knows the girl personally. It's nothing spectacular - just a cup of coffee and some (hopefully intelligent) conversation between two people - but that where it all starts...

To meet someone worthwhile we SA sufferers have to do what everybody else who meets someone in this world have to do... we have to get out there and take chances. It's hard... we might fail... the girl might be a jerk like a hundred other jerks we've encountered in our lives... or the girl might be the best person to ever come into our lives.

It's the realization of that last possibility that should be the motivation we take with us whenever we "brave the elements" and forge out into society. SAers are just like everybody else, except that we have more fear and apprehension keeping us from doing what everyone else who gets anything out of life does - get out there and take chances!!!

I'm going to be taking my share of chances before this life of mine is done (with respect to a great many things)... the jerks I meet will get tossed into my "mental trash can" where all jerks belong, and the people that are worth spending time with will become treasured friends, and one of those may even become a lover.

So in conclusion Ross... don't sell guys with SA short when it comes to matters of attraction. Every girl doesn't like the loud-mouthed extrovert - just the girls that aren't right for us. And it's not always about physical appearance either, as a quick study of the couples you see walking around everyday will prove.

Well, the dissertation is over... class dismissed!!!

Take care, and keep fighting the fear!

:duel


----------



## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

Zephyr said:


> Some people just aren't good looking. I thought you would have realized that at some point.


I thought you would have noticed that most of the ugliest people you ever encounter are married or dating.


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Paul said:


> Zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Some people just aren't good looking. I thought you would have realized that at some point.
> ...


Um, no, I haven't seen that. I've encountered very few people uglier than I, and those ones certainly weren't married or dating.


----------



## Kate (Mar 4, 2006)

.delete


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

Kate,

:int 
I'm curious about your situation. How long from the time you first started communicating online to the time you first spoke on the phone? Did you IM on the computer, or e-mail, or both? I guess I'm asking about how long between each step of your relationship? I'm not really looking to 'hook up' (in any sense of the word) with anybody right now, but would still like to know.


----------



## americanguy (Nov 14, 2003)

Ross said:


> This question is mainly for the males because we're the ones that usually have to initiate things with the opposite sex.


Ok lets get back to the original question and how it is directed toward males with SA. 
Veggie, There is no doubt about it that men with sa have a HELL of alot harder time having a relationship of any kind with the opposite sex. Yes of course there is the once in a million chance that a woman is going to come up to us and show interest and initiate the conversation. But society as a whole expects the man to take initiative and to hold up the conversation,etc... I mean in all honesty you can be a woman who is shy or has social anxiety and you will have some guy come up to you and show interest. From there you can let the man do all the talking, do all the flirting, initiate the dating process,propose to you, get married and he can support you and at the same time doesn't have to worry about you going out and picking up another guy b/c your socially inept. Lets get real here..It doesn't work the same for males with sa. What woman is going to be with a guy who is like that, it just doesnt happen and you know that. You have better odds getting hit by lighting. Its just the world we live in and thats the bottom line. How many males out there agree with me?


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

Yes, let's get real.

I disagree with you that it's harder for men. I never said it was easy for men with SA, but it's not any easier for a woman with SA. Maybe that's how it is in the movies and TV, but not in real life. Or don't my personal experiences count? I'm not married. I'm not supported by anyone. I've spent more money on guys than they've spent on me in the relationships that I did have with men.

When you're a woman with SA, some of us take what we get, as far as the men who "chose" us, and it's often not what we want. I've been asked by guys to support them before. Didn't, but still were expensive relationships for me. No guy has ever supported me financially, besides my father when I was young. Most women I've known, that are in relationships, none have SA, have jobs. My mother worked. My sisters worked.

Men always ask a women out that they LIKE. If a women gets asked out at all, it may not be by a man she likes.

I keep asking why there is STILL a stigma to a woman asking a guy out, and no one seems to have an answer. It's ridiculous in this day and age.



> It doesn't work the same for males with sa. What woman is going to be with a guy who is like that, it just doesnt happen and you know that.


 Are you saying here that a guy with SA can't get a woman? If not, I don't know what you mean. I'm sure the guys with SA who have girlfriends and wives would disagree with that.

I know I'd like a guy who was shy, but if I'm sitting back waiting for him to ask me and he's too shy to approach me, how does this make it "easier" for me than him?


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

*americanguy and Veggie1:*

I think you *BOTH* make excellent points, but IMO it's not a competition as to which sex has the hardest time getting a relationship started.

If you read my post earlier (I know it's long, but please give it a read in your spare time), I talked about my past experiences where girls approached me first. None of them walked up and said "Hi... I think you're cute! Wanna go out on a date with me? Here's my number... call me!!" Most women don't do that, and of those that do, most guys (SA or not) would be suspicious of their motives and be hesitant to respond.

What the girls in my case did was get physically close to me and make eye contact with me in a way that assured me they wanted me to initiate some sort of communication with them. It wasn't _their_ fault for not giving a clear enough message, it was _my_ fault for not responding to their message... purely out of fear!

*Veggie1:*

Your experiences count a great deal, Veggie - but so do mine, and americanguy's, and all the rest of us here. That's what makes this forum so great. We can learn from each other, 'cause we come from different places, but we're joined by a common problem - SA!

I think, for me, I'd like a girl to ask me out (verbally), but just like when a guy asks a girl out, it's the way it's done that makes a difference. If the woman is intelligent and speaks well, and says something complimentary but not overly-suggestive, I think that would be great. It's never happened to me that way before, but hell... I wouldn't count it out if it did!

You asked "why there's still a stigma about women asking guys out", and you also made a statement about "men always asking women out that they like, but if a woman gets asked out at all, it may not be by a man she likes". IMO that's not always the case. There're plenty of circumstances that come into play that have nothing to do with who likes who.

For example, there are guys that ask women out that they have _no_ attraction to whatsoever, but are merely looking for sex, an easy meal ticket, a green card, etc. Likewise, there are women that have such a detailed list of what they want in a guy that they "cheat themselves" out of what may be a good thing in their lives. I mean, what's more important... a guy who has everything on a woman's checklist at first glance, or a guy who grows with you over time that genuinely loves you?

This, to me, is why so many relationships fail... because both sides are looking for what stimulates them "RIGHT NOW" and aren't thinking about what to expect several years from NOW. The only way to find that out is over time... LOT'S OF TIME with that person.

I'll bet if you interview couples that have grown old and happy together and ask them what they thought of each other when they first met, few of them will say "oh, he/she was my first choice, and I knew we were meant for each other." Most of them probably dated for a reasonable period of time, fell in love with what each other represented as human beings, and the rest happened naturally.

Yes, I agree that the world we live in makes it tough for people with or without SA to get together and stay together, but I hardly think of it as being tougher for EITHER sex. It's equally tough for BOTH - just in different ways.

There's a lot you guys/gals say that's right-on-point, but I think it won't help guys or girls find a quality relationship (if that's your goal) by "pointing fingers" and saying "see... it's tougher for us than it is for them!" All I'm trying to say is "LIGHTEN UP" everybody.

Everything's tough out there, for sure, but a (positive) change in our attitudes will go a long way in making things easier. I get angry about the whole "finding a mate" thing too, but a little time and perspective yields wisdom.

:group


----------



## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

Paul said:


> Zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Some people just aren't good looking. I thought you would have realized that at some point.
> ...


Exactly, relationships have almost nothing to do with looks. There are lots of people of the opposite sex that aren't that good looking either that you could have a relationship with if you really think you're that ugly..

But i see many ugly guys everyday with pretty wifes/girlfriends.

I think i am one of the most good looking persons in my group of friends. I work out, care about what i wear. But i have never had a girlfriend. Some girls have shown interest but when i was a teenager i was too nervous (still am) to make a move so i never learned how relationships work.


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

social_misfit,

I know you're trying to make peace. I'm not interested in battling with anyone on here, myself.

However, let me clarify that I never said it was easier for men than for women, only that it's just as hard for women as men.

As you can see, americanguy addressed me in his above post and said, "There is no doubt about it that men with sa have a HELL of alot harder time having a relationship of any kind with the opposite sex." I disagree and I responded as to why.

I am really more interested in Kate's above post at this point, than I am in a battle of the sexes.


----------



## itsmemaggi (Sep 26, 2005)

Zephyr said:


> Paul said:
> 
> 
> > Zephyr said:
> ...


I highly doubt you're ugly. I've never really seen anyone I can really judge as truly ugly. Especially if they're a good person (as you are). In my eyes, at least, they're automatically more attractive.

At the beginning, I wasn't super-attracted to Darrin, but the more I got to know him, the more I thought him to be the handsomest man I've ever seen... So that when we finally met, I couldn't take my eyes off him...

xoxo
Maggi


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

itsmemaggi said:


> Zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Paul said:
> ...


nevermind..


----------



## isolyde (Apr 6, 2006)

Veggie1 said:


> social_misfit,
> 
> I know you're trying to make peace. I'm not interested in battling with anyone on here, myself.
> 
> ...


Sorry, maybe I shouldn't bring this discussion back to life if it has already come to an end, but I think even saying it's just as hard for women as it is for men is also meaningless. It _can be_ just as hard, but it can also be harder or even easier (I know I'm probably overanalyzing what you said, Veggie1, but I'm not only picking on you ). Doesn't it all depend on the individual? I know I'm not interested in any relationships, so being a guy actually makes it easier for me than if I was a woman. Turning down people would not be an easy thing for me to do. I don't know if I should be happy or sad that nobody ever asks me out. :b

Anyway, I was going to go through all kinds of specific examples of a man having it harder than a woman and other cases where a woman has it harder than a man, but I changed my mind. I'll just say it depends on a lot of factors, like:
- how hard it is for you to reject someone
- how hard it is for you to ask someone out
- how hard it is for you to act natural around the people you like
- how desperately you want a relationship
- how other people perceive you (just because you're a woman doesn't mean you're going to be asked out, and just because you're a guy doesn't mean you're never going to be asked out)

I could probably go on, but I think it would be wise of me to stop typing now.


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

Veggie1:

Sorry for any misunderstanding. Ross' topic is a pretty good one to stir up feelings about. Hope you find out more about Kate's situation.

I'd personally have to be with the person for a while before taking a big step like moving in, but maybe Kate and her b/f clicked on some level that she didn't go into.

Good luck!


----------



## anthrax (Apr 4, 2006)

I answered many personals ads. Finally I found a girl who had similar interests and we've been married more than a decade. Don't give up, keep looking.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

I've already given up.


----------



## Mr_Twig (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm 20 and never dated anyone, which surprises no one who knows me. I can't say I blame other people for my lack of love-I'd say it has more to do with me being the ugly, noxious pond scum that I am. Somedays I really feel like a vile waste of a human being...


----------



## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

It seems like a few people here would rather be right about being hopeless than consider, even remotely entertain, any idea to the contrary. So there must be a payoff to insisting that you'll be alone forever? What is the payoff?


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

It's very hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

I honestly cannot imagine any woman being interested in me, and it is definatley true that they've never shown interest, I just suppose I don't entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe it could be possible that someone somewhere in the world might be interested because it enables you to accept your situation a lot more easier and forget about it, instead of hoping and wanting all the time.

I hope that explains it well enough.


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Atticus said:


> It seems like a few people here would rather be right about being hopeless than consider, even remotely entertain, any idea to the contrary. So there must be a payoff to insisting that you'll be alone forever? What is the payoff?


The payoff is that some of us actually want to be alone because it's a lot less stressful that way.



Ross said:


> I honestly cannot imagine any woman being interested in me


Well you don't really have the right to say that, because you said that you've had interest expressed in you online.


----------



## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

But Ross, you seem to be having some difficulty accepting your situation. I won't offer any rah rah pep talk, or at least I don't see it that way. But I've often wondered how I manage to attract women. I'm not ugly, in the way most adults don't actually cause nausea or frighten children. But I don't think I'm much to look at, yet I get what I've *learned* to recognize as interest from women.

I'm probably more physically attractive than I believe. I may also unknowingly create some mystery because I'm hard to get to know. The only thing I do that I know is considered attractive by many women is show passion for things I believe in.

Anyway, attitude can help or hurt you in this area, and your attitude probably isn't helping. Would you disagree?


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

Zephyr said:


> Atticus said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of course I have the right to say that, I'm talking about offline. And I'm not exactly some studd online anyway, out of the 4 online women I've spoke to in private only 2 seemed genuinley interested. Anyway how did you know I'm from the incel board?


----------



## Zephyr (Nov 8, 2003)

Ross said:


> Zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Atticus said:
> ...


No, what I'm saying is that if they've shown you interest, then they've shown you interest. Does it really matter if it's online or offline?


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

Yes, just because it's possible for me to attract a woman online doesn't mean it's possible offline. Offline and online are two completely different worlds, and my real life & real world exists offline. I also probably don't come across offline anything like how I do online, I may even look way worse than my photo which I've shown online.

Also, I'd just like to add, every single other woman online doesn't even seem to be interested in talking to me.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

Atticus said:


> But Ross, you seem to be having some difficulty accepting your situation. I won't offer any rah rah pep talk, or at least I don't see it that way. But I've often wondered how I manage to attract women. I'm not ugly, in the way most adults don't actually cause nausea or frighten children. But I don't think I'm much to look at, yet I get what I've *learned* to recognize as interest from women.


I suppose, but I feel like I'm accepting it a lot more now, I feel like I'm absolutley sick of women & my sex drive is very low because of the medication, I'm also starting to frequent an asexual board.



Atticus said:


> I'm probably more physically attractive than I believe. I may also unknowingly create some mystery because I'm hard to get to know. The only thing I do that I know is considered attractive by many women is show passion for things I believe in.
> 
> Anyway, attitude can help or hurt you in this area, and your attitude probably isn't helping. Would you disagree?


I think it's helping me a lot, it's good for my well being.


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

You don't need to give up though dude, you've just said women show interest in you. Once or if you eventually beat your anxiety, your dates should go fine.


----------



## Mr_Twig (Apr 10, 2006)

michael douglas said:


> Whereas I personally don't think guys are like that. I think men see more than just looks. Sorry for stereotypying women as being shallow, I know not all women are like that. But women have told me that its looks that they go on. And I know there are a lot of men who think the same, I have a friend who thinks its all about looks. That's life!


I don't think it's just women (sorry if I misunderstood). If anything, we guys are, on average, even worse. That being said, it is all about looks. It's just natural selection at work. My only option is to cultivate other interests for myself and stop bothering with it-which I don't really do now. However, I can't help being attracted to women. I feel terrible for it-they're so much better than me that I really have no business finding them attractive.

It's disapointing to have given up on something at a young age, but I really see no reason why I shouldn't. It's funny how people always say things get better at college; I see no difference, and I'm sure I never will.


----------



## alternativesong (Apr 5, 2006)

> know not all women are like that, but the vast majority are looking for the most handsome guy available. Whereas I personally don't think guys are like that. I think men see more than just looks. Sorry for stereotypying women as being shallow, I know not all women are like that. But women have told me that its looks that they go on. And I know there are a lot of men who think the same, I have a friend who thinks its all about looks. That's life!


For me of course I notice a guy that I find attractive as any human being does but honestly that's by no means anywhere near the most important thing. I really don't think that men are any better than women when it comes to this (and I realize you eluded to that at the end). There are lots of people that just go on looks but there's plenty others that don't. For example, I usually am attracted to taller men, and the reason for that is simple. I've actually had "boys" (note that I said boys on purpose) say they couldn't date me because I was taller than them. Not to my face mind you but I heard about it later... So I normally gravitate to taller men but no doubt if a shorter guy asked me out I'd think nothing of it. My main checkpoint is a guy that's comfortable in his manhood and not afraid to be with a woman that's strong, independent, and not willing to sell herself short.


----------



## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

Atticus said:


> It seems like a few people here would rather be right about being hopeless than consider, even remotely entertain, any idea to the contrary. So there must be a payoff to insisting that you'll be alone forever? What is the payoff?


*raises hand* Am I allowed to ask what would constitute "any idea to the contrary"? Isn't this whole matter merely an "Either/Neither" proposition? There IS no room for anything that stands contrary to the "forever alone" option in cases where that's the only thing you're allowed to have.

False hope is one of those good intention bricks in the road to hell.

And there is no payoff, unless you get used to the notion of being alone. Then you come full circle in a sense. But that's a tough thing to do, and to be honest, I don't think that suggestion should be shoved down any person's throat just because they don't fit the accepted standards of attractiveness. In practice as well as theory, any person should be allowed to have the most basic things that other people can have. Food, shelter, a decent income, love. There shouldn't be a system in place where only the "best" people get the most basic things.

Of course, this is human society I'm talking about. So reality dictates otherwise. But it is ridiculous, and I can understand anyone who would not want to meekly accept the "alone" option if they never wanted it in the first place.


----------



## Veggie1 (Jan 12, 2006)

social_misfit said:


> Veggie1:
> 
> Sorry for any misunderstanding. Ross' topic is a pretty good one to stir up feelings about. Hope you find out more about Kate's situation.
> 
> ...


No need to apologize. I'm in no hurry to find somebody right now, just found Kate's situation interesting. Thanks for wishing me luck, though. 



> Veggie1, did people that you know tell you that it is wrong for women to call men, or is this mainly something you read in books? I always had to pursue guys; I've never really been asked out. I wonder if some of my lack of success in the past was due to my trying too hard. I never seem to give enough thought to social stigmas.
> 
> I did have some serious troubles with dating in the past but I still tend to believe that guys have it harder, on the average...


Most of the females I've known, relatives, friends, and acquaintenances of various ages, lifestyles, education, whatever--did not call guys first. They waited to be called. They might've made it clear that they were interested, sometimes, but they didn't do the calling. I'm not saying that's true in every single case, but, _usually_ is the case. In addition, all aspects of the media rarely portray a woman as the caller, unless she's "loose," as well. On here, from what I've read, most of the girls would rather a guy call her than be the one to make the first call. I get the impression it's not just SA, but society itself. There are always exceptions, I'm referring to _in general_.

I'd almost forgotten that I, too, pursued a few guys when I was younger, but nothing ever worked out. Nor the time much more recently when I called a guy I knew, who had been blatantly flirting with me at that time, and he still turned me down.

I've been on both sides and still say it's just as hard for women as for men. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Maseur Shado,

I know from experience that your defenses on this topic are impregnable (no pun intended), so I'll skip any "curse the darkness rather than light a candle" stuff. But I won't give up.

Lets say there is a male version of you. Forget whether you can get comfortable with that image, the point is to imagine someone with similar qualities and personality, but the appropriate body parts. Wouldn't you and this person be a good match? Are you so unique that this person can't possibly exist?


----------



## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

michael douglas said:


> I know not all women are like that, but the vast majority are looking for the most handsome guy available. Whereas I personally don't think guys are like that. I think men see more than just looks. Sorry for stereotypying women as being shallow, I know not all women are like that. But women have told me that its looks that they go on. And I know there are a lot of men who think the same, I have a friend who thinks its all about looks. That's life!


I disagree. Most women don't care about looks, they care about confidence. I've met many pretty women with average or below average looking guys. The guys are never nervous they don't have a problem talking to anyone, they have a job and are social. That's what most girls want.

Many guys want a hot girlfriend that they can show their friends and family.


----------



## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

Atticus said:


> Maseur Shado,
> 
> I know from experience that your defenses on this topic are impregnable (no pun intended), so I'll skip any "curse the darkness rather than light a candle" stuff. But I won't give up.
> 
> Lets say there is a male version of you. Forget whether you can get comfortable with that image, the point is to imagine someone with similar qualities and personality, but the appropriate body parts. Wouldn't you and this person be a good match? Are you so unique that this person can't possibly exist?


Well, all good castles must have strong defensive fortifications. Otherwise, they aren't castles, just hotels. :lol

As for a male version of me existing...given the amount of people alive on this planet, it's about .0005% likely that there is someone who is enough like me that we could connect on a decent level. But the possibility of me ever meeting said theoretical male counterpart are far less than .0005%.

And even if we met, could our similarities overcome any differences we might have? One person could have so much in common with another...but one or two major differences could doom any relationship between them. For example, I have never wanted, and will never have, children. Now, even if I met my theoretical opposite, what if he wanted kids? I won't budge one inch on that issue, and neither would he. That wouldn't be fair to either one of us.


----------



## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

Maseur,

Clearly, he shares your:

A. concern for overpopulation
B. aversion to children
C. aversion to people shorter than you (he's your height)
D. all of the above

So the kid issue isn't. 

Ok, I'll stop. My point is that some of you seem so hurt by your inability to connect with someone romantically that you may be letting your hurt limit real possibilities. I don't mean to poke fun at or to argue with your pain or its legitimacy. I really am sorry some of you are in such pain, or have given up on romance because its painful. Its hard to read these comments and not respond.


----------



## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

Atticus said:


> Maseur,
> 
> Clearly, he shares your:
> 
> ...


I'm rather confused by this statement. Are you suggesting that under ideal circumstances this thereotical male counterpart of mine would share my views on not having children? You do realize that at this point, it's no longer a thought experiment, but a bad romantic comedy, right? :b :lol



Atticus said:


> My point is that some of you seem so hurt by your inability to connect with someone romantically that you may be letting your hurt limit real possibilities.


I don't think many here WOULD automatically limit real possibilities, if those possibilities actually presented themselves. But for some of us, those opportunities have never happened. I guess that really is hard for a lot of people to understand...especially when it comes to the female side of the problem. But it does happen. Hey, it even happens to so-called "normal" people.

Actually, I think it might be more uncommon for ANYONE to find their best match. What often winds up happening is that you find someone who is a little bit compatible, and you try to make do with the best you can find at the time. That's the reason why so many relationships break apart, because there's this whole notion that everyone has to be coupled. And in order to do that, you have to settle. Well, ugh. Most people wouldn't expect you to settle for a-less-than-ideal job the rest of your life. Why should it be any different with a romantic partner? But that's for another discussion elsewhere. 

I avoid the pain of future relationships because I had the past of painful relationships. Should I have to put up with being abused and used just because I'm not good enough? Of course not. But the rules put in place by others say otherwise. If that's the way it's supposed to be for me, no thanks. I'll stay away entirely.


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

I don't know how anyone else here feels... but I think Ross has come up with one of the most interesting topics I've seen on this site in a long time. I'm learning so much from you guys' posts, and I hope my posts give some insight as well.

Here's my own personal example of how attitude can change one's whole outlook on this "I'll never find anyone that wants me" idea that I'm getting from a lot of the posts:

Yesterday I met the girl I spoke about in my previous post for coffee at an outdoor cafe. I took the train to get there, and I took the train back home after the date (more like an informal introduction). If any of you had known me a year ago, doing any of this would have been impossible - but now I'm able to handle such things with grace and charm.

Now, the "date" itself was a disaster, but not from my end... instead it was _she_ who totally bombed!

I was personable, very likeable and treated her like a total gentleman... I was far more comfortable and easy-going than I ever imagined I could be in such a setting, but she was angry, hid behind a pair of reflective sunglasses the entire time, and generally just stared at me with an angry look on her face! She was a total "cold fish" from a social perspective.

Now, in the past I would have taken a situation like that and said to myself "she didn't like me", "something must be absolutely horrible about me", "I must be extremely ugly-looking, and I just don't realize it", and "I blew yet another date, so why bother going through this b*llsh*t time and time again? I might as well quit, find a cabin in the mountains and become eunuch."

Rather than beating myself up about the way the date went (internalizing everything that went wrong) I looked at what really happened on the date:

1. I was great... I exuded a very calm, likeable personality that anyone with normal brain cells would have responded to with equal positivity.

2. She was awful! She acted rude and standoff-ish, despite my kindness to her (heck, I even paid for her drink, like a true gentleman, despite her bad attitude).

3. She left the cafe in the same rotten mood that she was in before she got there, while I left feeling good about myself, because I got out and did something sociable with confidence and style and put my best self forward!

After reading a bunch of these posts, I'm not going to even try to tell anybody how to feel or think or do... that's for every individual to work out on their own. But for me, I'm going to continue my plans to do more sociable things.

The summer is coming up soon, and I always used to let my fear keep me locked away indoors, but this year I'm going to be going to outdoor concerts, maybe a few boat rides, and hanging out on the beach from time to time. I'm also going to be strong for my mother as she battles the effects of chemotherapy and radiation treatment throughout the summer.

I have every right to everything good that anyone else in the world does, and physical looks are not a strong enough barrier to hold me back.

I couldn't give a crap about who's prettier than who... that's the kind of garbage that will always keep someone with SA down, and why should a person who's only claim to superiority is that they were born with a handsomer face than mine be given "carte blanche" over me?

I say, when you see these "lovelies" flash their magnificent personalities your way SAers, just flash them a lovely middle finger to show them what you think of them. Don't cower away and let their behavior lower your self-esteem. They might have the prettier face (a lot of them don't, by the way), but you're definitely the better person.

I'm not posting all of this to try to make everybody stop feeling down about themselves. Hell, I've been there more years than I care to count. I'm posting this as an affirmation that life doesn't have to be what someone else makes it, and I'm going to fight for every scrap of life that I can until I take my last breath on this earth.

So again I say to anybody who wants to listen and agrees with me...
KEEP FIGHTING THE FEAR!!!
And don't let the so-called "pretty people" ace you out of a life you deserve as much as anybody else does.


----------



## matt404 (Feb 8, 2006)

social_misfit said:


> . . . If any of you had known me a year ago, doing any of this would have been impossible - but now I'm able to handle such things with grace and charm.
> 
> .
> .
> ...


Congratulations on your date (even if it didn't go well)! I hope someday I'll get to the place you've gotten to. Your post makes complete sense. It's what I tell myself all the time and the logical part of my brain knows it's true, but some other part of me doesn't yet want to believe it. I still get that instinctive "I'm inferior" reaction whenever I'm near a girl I consider attractive. But if you overcame it, maybe I can someday as well. I hope your mom does well in her chemo!


----------



## Maseur Shado (Jun 7, 2005)

n/m


----------



## Longie (Jul 14, 2004)

Atticus said:


> It seems like a few people here would rather be right about being hopeless than consider, even remotely entertain, any idea to the contrary. So there must be a payoff to insisting that you'll be alone forever? What is the payoff?


Interesting question. When I stop and think about it, there are probably two reasons for why I feel that way. Like someone else said, in a way its easier because you don't have to deal with all the difficulties of actually trying to make a relationship work.

The second reason is that its a simple defence mechanism. A defence against getting your hopes up and seeing them shattered for the teenth time. I have been severely disappointed by basically all of my attempts to get anywhere with dating and initiating relationships, and there's only so much anyone can take of it. You reach a point where you see hope as a dangerous thing, dangerous because you feel so much worse when your hopes are dashed than if you never had any hopes in the first place. Sure, telling yourself you'll always be alone sucks *** as well, but its more like a dull ache which you can sometimes push to the back of your mind, unlike the fresh wound of rejection.

Overcoming the first of these fears is obviously necessary if you ever want to have a relationship - you have to allow it a chance to work. But being hopeful and positive about it? For people in our position, maybe that's just not possible anymore.


----------



## matt404 (Feb 8, 2006)

Longie said:


> The second reason is that its a simple defence mechanism. A defence against getting your hopes up and seeing them shattered for the teenth time. I have been severely disappointed by basically all of my attempts to get anywhere with dating and initiating relationships, and there's only so much anyone can take of it. You reach a point where you see hope as a dangerous thing, dangerous because you feel so much worse when your hopes are dashed than if you never had any hopes in the first place. Sure, telling yourself you'll always be alone sucks *** as well, but its more like a dull ache which you can sometimes push to the back of your mind, unlike the fresh wound of rejection.


 :agree I know that's why I've basically accepted that I'll always be alone. After years of getting your hopes up only to have them smashed over and over again, it's just something that naturally happens. I never consciously thought about it, I just realized one day that I'd accepted it. I don't really want to accept it; it hurts too, but it is easier to push that pain aside than to go through the rollercoaster of hope and rejection. I know everyone, even people without SA, get rejected or have bad relationships, but I'm willing to bet those people got at least a tiny amount of positive feedback at some point in a relationship. That was all they needed to try again. For those of us who've never gotten anything but rejection, it's just a little hard to try anymore. :sigh


----------



## alternativesong (Apr 5, 2006)

I've been rejected quite a few times due to different things, some of which I probably blew out of proportion, and I'll admit each one left a mark. I really do believe though that I'll find someone eventually even though I've never had any positive feedback when I've shown my feelings for someone (which I'll admit hasn't been often.) I know I'm a few years younger which might attribute to my optimism  but I do believe that you'll find someone and I hope that you won't settle for being alone because you certainly have alot to offer. Keep your head up or better yet, keep on truckin... I don't know why but I've always liked that saying lol


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

Thanks Matt for the kind words. We're "crossing our fingers" that the chemo and radiation does the trick and gets rid of any chance that my mom's cancer is still present.

Just to let you know, from my perspective (I'm twice your age, by the way), there's no such thing as "overcoming" or "curing" what we have in SA. It's a day to day battle with the fears and insecurities that we carry inside of ourselves. Today you could be ready to fight the world, and tomorrow you could be hiding under your sheets afraid to leave your room! It's like the weather... one day it's sunny and warm and you feel like going out, then a day later it's pouring rain and overcast and you just want to stay indoors.

By the way, the girl that I had the "date" with was hardly attractive (I saw her from a distance and she looked so angry and unappealing that I considered not approaching her and calling her cell phone to make up an excuse not to go through with it, but I knew that (thanks to my therapy sessions) it would be a good idea to battle my SA by interacting with a variety of types of people, so I approached her and did my part to be sociable.

I noticed you said _"I hope someday I'll get to the place you've gotten to. Your post makes complete sense. It's what I tell myself all the time and the logical part of my brain knows it's true, but some other part of me doesn't yet want to believe it. I still get that instinctive "I'm inferior" reaction whenever I'm near a girl I consider attractive."_

I've been at the place you're at for many years, so I know I can't put you on the "fast track" to feeling differently with a few words about my experiences. When I felt the way you do, people used to do that with me all the time, and it never worked. We're all on our own time clock as far as battling our SA is concerned.

But here's some tips that you might want to try sometimes (maybe even write down on a piece of paper and carry around with you if you want) that are helping me a bit (if they sound stupid OR TOO LONG-WINDED for you, forget it and move on to the next post):

*1. STOP THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE IN TERMS OF THEIR LOOKS!!!*
Our society makes it so easy for people to get off easy if they fit a certain physical profile... the jock; the cheerleader; the model; the bully - these are types who usually spark the most trouble with the least repercussions. They also represent the types of people that have the least to offer beyond their physical appearance, and *MUST BE IGNORED*.

*2. START THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE IN TERMS OF THEIR ATTITUDE!!!*
Would you rather spend the next five years of your life with a girl who looks like Heather Locklear but has the personality of an evil b*tch, or a girl who's plain-looking but is easy to talk with, who isn't absorbed in the endless maze of "who's better-looking", and who has a healthy approach to life? *YOUR CHOICE HAS TO BE THE LATTER*.

*3. STOP FEELING DOWN ABOUT YOURSELF!!!*
I don't care if you look like King Kong on crack cocaine - if you dress nicely, wash and groom yourself regularly, and highlight the elements of your personality that are lovable and personable, you'll feel better about yourself... especially if you follow the first two tips ahead of this one! *NOBODY'S BETTER THAN YOU ARE!!!*

*4. REALIZE THAT THERE IS NO CURE FOR SA!!!*
SA isn't a disease that you can take an antidote for. It's not a sickness that someday we'll all be totally rid of. It's a daily collection of fears and apprehensive thoughts that have spawned in our minds from years of abusive treatment that NONE OF US deserved to have gone through, and it's our defense mechanism to cope with that abuse. All the therapy and meds in the world won't erase it, but the right kind of therapy and medication can help to get your mind headed in a more positive direction, get more sleep (VERY IMPORTANT) and give you a more relaxed "I don't give a crap about the negative people in my life" attitude. *YOU WON'T CURE YOUR SA... YOU MUST THINK OF IT AS A DAILY SERIES OF BATTLES THAT YOU MUST WIN TO GET ENJOYMENT OUT OF LIFE!!!*

I'll be 46 in the next four months, and I'm still battling SA, but I've made immeasurable strides in my thoughts and actions. I hope you (and anyone else who takes the time to read my posts) will do the same!! Most of my posts have a double-edged purpose... (a) to give people a fresh perpective on how to battle SA and (b) to remind myself of what I'm trying to achieve with my life.

Some people on this forum respond to the way things are in the world today by saying "that's life". I disagree. Life is what you allow it to be! Don't let dumb prejudices about your looks (or anything else for that matter) get in your way. The people who _think_ they're better than you are *AREN'T!!* Believe it... know it... live it.

KEEP FIGHTING THE FEAR!!!

:duel


----------



## alternativesong (Apr 5, 2006)

Wow that was an excellent post!


----------



## Mr_Twig (Apr 10, 2006)

That was indeed an excellant post...unfortunately I'm not likely to change any time soon.


----------



## Anatomica (May 23, 2005)

alternativesong said:


> Wow that was an excellent post!


 :agree great post, I felt uplifted after reading that, post more hehe, I love reading encouraging posts!


----------



## Ross (Apr 10, 2004)

It kinda made me depressed to be honest, to hear him say that SA will always be with you and you can never really beat it.

Is that true? What about all the people who have talked about their SA being gone and how they now feel really great, confident, going to parties ect?


----------



## rb27 (Jul 17, 2005)

Ross said:


> It kinda made me depressed to be honest, to hear him say that SA will always be with you and you can never really beat it.
> 
> Is that true? What about all the people who have talked about their SA being gone and how they now feel really great, confident, going to parties ect?


No, I don't believe so. I'm not sure if you can completely get rid of SA, but there's certainly ways of managing it. I know that on the few occassions I'm feeling great, my SA disappears and I can do things I'd otherwise die trying. That can't be coincidence.


----------



## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

Ross said:


> FearNoMore said:
> 
> 
> > I was lucky because my wife pursued me in the beginning. I guess this gave me courage to grit my teeth and pursue her back after that. Looking back though, I sure wish I had been able to date earlier in life. I am just fortunate that my wife is a wonderful person. I had a girlfriend briefly in high school, but she couldn't deal with me. I never dated anyone else until I met my wife ten years ago. Sorry I don't have any advice for you. Good luck to you though, I know things can get better for you!
> ...


I know what you mean. In fact I find the reaction to be more repulsed or a feeling of sorrow for me but no real interest. I'm sure I'd get blown off as soon as I said my name. I get looked at sometimes but I know it's not a postive attraction but rather a negative attraction. In fact I've seen women try to get away from me as fast as possible and avoid any eye contact that might say I have a chance. Maybe I look like a psychopath. I don't have an attractive personality, and have no money. I just wish my body would accept these facts and move on; darn testosterone.


----------



## seagreen16 (Sep 24, 2005)

Ross said:


> It kinda made me depressed to be honest, to hear him say that SA will always be with you and you can never really beat it.
> 
> Is that true? What about all the people who have talked about their SA being gone and how they now feel really great, confident, going to parties ect?


I think it's an individual thing and depends on how bad yours is, what your circumstances are, how much effort you put into overcoming it, and how much help you get from other people and the environment. The younger you start, the easier probably because you aren't supposed to have everything figured out when you are younger. When you get older, people feel you are more fixed in your ways and will expect you to be an adult already. I've had pretty bad SA, and I think I still have nervousness and discomfort with people at times. People still call me the shy, quiet girl who is unsure of herself, but I don't really care anymore. People will see you how they see you. I stopped letting what people think of me bother me or stop me from doing things to some degree. I need to worry about myself and living my life and not let what people say or think about me affect my moods so much. That's the first step in reducing some of my discomfort around people.

There is kind of this snowball effect. I started trying to become more comfortable around people a long time ago, and then I stopped because I had school to worry about. I made another push at it about 2 years ago. Just think of it this way, it can't get any worse (given that you don't undergo any trauma or excruciating life circumstance that sets you backwards). You can only get better and develop more skills and grow.

The hardest part is where you are right now. In the beginning, I always felt like things were getting worse and worse, and that was just my anxiety getting the best of me making me feel like my life and me was so awful. the snowball effect is that it is the hardest in the beginning, but longer you work on it, the easier things will get and things will start rolling by themselves a bit. Like you will have more comfort around people and that enables you to try something new and trying something new will help you learn something so that you know more and can do more. It might take a while to get to this point, but it does happen if you put the effort. So just look for little things you can do to cheer yourself up or change your behaviors or attitudes a little bit. You need to cheer yourself up instead of put yourself down. You need to root for yourself instead of telling yourself you are a has-been or hopeless case. You need to stick up for yourself even when you have no friends.

I've felt very desperate about myself in the past and felt like I should do everyone a favor and drop out of life already. Well, just think that you can only learn from every experience even from the experiences that hurt you the most. Even though the experience was painful,, think about how you gained from it like maybe you learned something about other people or something about yourself. You have to change your attitude to emphasize the positive and make yourself realize what you can gain by participating instead of everything you can lose. You need to encourage yourself so you don't go back to that cave where you are stuck and alone.

After dealing with this for the last 2 years, I think progress is getting easier. So that's the snowball effect. It is the hardest in the beginning, but after a while, it gets easier to make changes.

yikes, this is long, but I hope it is helpful to someone.


----------



## Lonelyguy (Nov 8, 2003)

matt404 said:


> Longie said:
> 
> 
> > The second reason is that its a simple defence mechanism. A defence against getting your hopes up and seeing them shattered for the teenth time. I have been severely disappointed by basically all of my attempts to get anywhere with dating and initiating relationships, and there's only so much anyone can take of it. You reach a point where you see hope as a dangerous thing, dangerous because you feel so much worse when your hopes are dashed than if you never had any hopes in the first place. Sure, telling yourself you'll always be alone sucks *** as well, but its more like a dull ache which you can sometimes push to the back of your mind, unlike the fresh wound of rejection.
> ...


Totally agree. After being alone for so long and being rejected for most of my life its hard to have hope anymore. I still want someone but having my hopes crushed all the time hurts like hell. It got to the point where I couldn't take the pain of going through that anymore, so I haven't really gone anywhere in the past few years with the intention of meeting someone. I know that's not helping my situation any but I just couldn't deal with the feelings of depression and frustration after getting my hopes up only to have things fall apart.


----------



## JenWiz (Feb 24, 2006)

well i had met one on the internet. I travelled far just to have sex. I realize after its not worth it.


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

Ross said:


> It kinda made me depressed to be honest, to hear him say that SA will always be with you and you can never really beat it.
> 
> Is that true? What about all the people who have talked about their SA being gone and how they now feel really great, confident, going to parties ect?


I just thought I'd type a response Ross, since you're the one that started (as the number of posts is indicating) the most thought-provoking topic of the year (I don't know if there's a prize for that... maybe you can ask the administrator! Just kidding.)

Don't worry... I'm gonna keep this post shorter than my previous ones (the forum says "hoorray" in the background).

What I posted about "SA always being with you" is just my personal opinion. I'm not trying to come off like some expert who has all the answers (as we all know, most of those b*stards are wrong anyway, lol).

If what I have to say helps you, great... if it doesn't, hey, it's your life... you have to find your own way to handle it!

People who have talked about their SA being gone and who talk about feeling really great, confident, going to parties, etc. probably found their own answers to their problems. It's the same for all of us. NOBODY'S way is *THE* way.

Take it easy, and thanks for opening up one hell of a topic!


----------



## JenWiz (Feb 24, 2006)

well its been 4 times now. I have a problem attaining orgasm, its very hard for me..i wonder if its because i didnt start early in my life.


----------



## free thinker (Nov 11, 2003)

It seems I've gotten into this discussion a little late but I just wanted to add something to the debate about which gender has it easier. As far as I can see there are two ways to resolve this question. One way is to have a research group do a study; the other method would be to dress up as a member of the opposite sex and see what life would be like for the other gender. To the best of my knowledge no study has been done regarding this issue. On the other hand there actually has been someone who has lived life for a period of time as a member of the opposite sex.

One such person is Norah Vincent and she reveals her experience in her book, _My Life As a Man_, which was just recently released. In the book she acknowledges just how difficult it is for men to pursue women. According to her, men have a much more challenging task than women. Below is her website. It should be noted however that Ms. Vincent does not have SA. 
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2006/01/20/vincent


----------



## Woody (Nov 16, 2003)

...


----------



## Longie (Jul 14, 2004)

social_misfit said:


> What I posted about "SA always being with you" is just my personal opinion. I'm not trying to come off like some expert who has all the answers (as we all know, most of those b*stards are wrong anyway, lol).
> 
> If what I have to say helps you, great... if it doesn't, hey, it's your life... you have to find your own way to handle it!
> 
> People who have talked about their SA being gone and who talk about feeling really great, confident, going to parties, etc. probably found their own answers to their problems. It's the same for all of us. NOBODY'S way is *THE* way.


I think there is a lot of truth in what you said about how SA can't be 'cured'. I personally cannot see a time when I will never have any social anxiety in any situation, ever. But, I can see a time when I've reduced it considerably, and even when it still happens, I don't let it get the best of me.

For most if not everyone posting here, SA has had a big impact on their life. It would indeed be odd if such a major issue didn't shape the rest of our lives considerably, even if we reduce the actual symptoms a lot. As a result of my experiences, I will never look on work, social life, or relationships in the same way as someone who has never had this kind of problem. Its a negative thing in a lot of ways, because its limited me a lot in the past, and still does - especially with relationships. But its not all negative, necessairily.

I like your description of SA as a series of battles that must be fought, and won, every day. I know that's the only way I've ever gotten anywhere with this disorder. Thinking about it like that actually makes me a bit more hopeful. I almost _like_ the idea of being someone who had such a major struggle to achieve a lot of things that most people take for granted. If I achieve those things, I will feel so much more grateful for them, and at the same time its given me motivation to do _more_, to achieve more, than an 'average' person might do, to prove to myself and other people that its possible.


----------



## pixiedust (Aug 11, 2005)

chic_canadian_gurl said:


> I've given up on the idea of ever having a relationship. I'm so far behind on the social skills needed for it that there is no hope really. I'm also ugly, which doesn't help. It's just easier for me to accept what I can't have vs. wishing for what can't be.


me too :?


----------



## Mr_Twig (Apr 10, 2006)

pixiedust said:


> chic_canadian_gurl said:
> 
> 
> > I've given up on the idea of ever having a relationship. I'm so far behind on the social skills needed for it that there is no hope really. I'm also ugly, which doesn't help. It's just easier for me to accept what I can't have vs. wishing for what can't be.
> ...


Same here. Does your club have punch and pie?


----------



## social_misfit (Oct 14, 2005)

Longie said:


> I like your description of SA as a series of battles that must be fought, and won, every day. I know that's the only way I've ever gotten anywhere with this disorder. Thinking about it like that actually makes me a bit more hopeful. I almost _like_ the idea of being someone who had such a major struggle to achieve a lot of things that most people take for granted. If I achieve those things, I will feel so much more grateful for them, and at the same time its given me motivation to do _more_, to achieve more, than an 'average' person might do, to prove to myself and other people that its possible.


I agree with you totally. Yesterday (Thursday) I went to my weekly therapy session, and I took a train and a bus to get there and back. On the way back from the session, I bought a bottle of grape juice from a mini-market, made a deposit at my bank, and bought batteries for my walkman from the drug store, all in the same neighborhood, then I got back on the bus and the train (fighting through my negative thoughts of being stared at and laughed at by strangers - a big issue and a major source of my past fears - the whole time) to return home.

These were personal achievements for me that I set out to accomplish everyday. Sometimes I handle them with great strength and determination, and sometimes I barely make it back home, falling down on my bed in a heap of depression.

But the main thing is that no matter how my day ends, I did something to improve my lot in life, and that makes me feel good. It also gives me the motivation to get up the next day and try again... and again... and again.

Keep up the good work battling your SA!!!


----------



## Carbon Breather (Mar 13, 2005)

Gumaro said:


> i cant give up. aside from the one girlfriend ive had, ive only been on four dates with two girls


That's not bad.

That's four dates more than many people here have been on.


----------



## ott (Aug 2, 2005)

I've always been too gutless to have any contact with girls other than brief, superficial conversations. Now that I've improved a lot and feel ready for a relationship, I'm still unable to get any closer contact with girls other than brief, superficial conversations. It's a tad frustrating :sigh 
I just don't know how to proceed.

My poor self image doesn't help either. I've never received any attention from girls, so perhaps I'm just not seen as dating material.


----------



## bellicose (Sep 16, 2004)

I recently started dating a girl, it took a lot of moves on both our parts (we're both somewhat shy in addition to my having SA). We've both been wanting it for weeks and it finally happened the other night (and we both thought the other didn't want it, but we pursued each other anyway, hahah) :squeeze I didn't even have to tell her about my SA, we were just talking about psychiatrists THE SECOND NIGHT we hung out together and when I mentioned the word "anxiety" she asked, "Social anxiety?" I was kind of stunned and didn't say anything, so she said, "Yeah, I figured. It's okay," and held onto me even tighter. Suuuch a sweet girl :love


----------



## Softy785 (Apr 16, 2006)

i've been with my boyfriend for over two years and looking back i still dont know how it all happened. we met at church and then we started talking online and we became really really good online friends. and then we started hanging out in person during my freshmen year of college and then we were best friends for about six months before we finally made our relationship official. it all seemed so natural and easy, it was like we just clicked from the start. it's amazing because i've never had a friend that i got along with so well like that and i dont think i ever will again.


----------

