# Are you gentlemen?



## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Men on this forum having such a hard time getting dates: are you a gentleman?

Do you drive
Do you pay for dates
Do you pull out the seat and sit last
Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car
Do you hold off on sex until you're in love
Do you listen honestly and interestedly 
Do you dress clean and sharp
Do you hold doors

And what other things should be added to this list?


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Sometimes.. A lot of those are impractical since men make like 45% of the income adjusted they did a generation ago, hard to pay for everything and wow a woman who probably makes more than you do.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Since when is driving making one a gentleman? That one makes no sense to me whatsoever. That is an expectation some women may have, not a criteria for a gentleman. The lowest *******s out there can drive as well. Are, let's say, truck drivers gentlemen? I wonder.

I would open buildings' doors(opening the door of a car is exaggerated for these times, unless she really needs help cause she can't open it or something), let her enter first(although these days, some would interpret this as acting submissive), pay for the date, listen and be honest.

As for dressing clean and sharp, aren't you supposed to be clean any way, in the day to day life? I don't know what dressing sharp means. If you mean elegant and sophisticated, looking a bit snobbish, I am not a fan of that. If it is some official date and I know she will dress that way, I will probably wear some nice outfit(although I would dread every second of it). I would prefer hanging out, something casual, less pressure. People aren't living every second of their life dressed sharp anyway. People usually wear things they are comfortable in.

Waiting for sex till love... Well, I have always been an idealist, which is probably why I have never been a Casanova. Nothing to win really, but a lot to lose. In pure theory, yes. In practice, I can't exclude being unsure it is really love I am feeling, so having sex if a girl I like agrees to it. But, there will surely be no one night stands.


I must say, some women would probably be offended being treated the way you have written above, though. This is no longer the 1950's. Some do not want to fit in the usual roles or would feel patronized, considering the guy acting that way, is only doing it cause he thinks women are weak/vulnerable and should be treated like babies instead of equal partners(maybe some self-proclaimed feminists with misandrist tendencies, or fulltime misandrists).


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Being a gentlemen is irrelevant in this day and age when it comes to getting dates. It certainly doesn't help guys with social anxiety. But, it certainly will help pile onto their already substantial anxiety. Ain't nobody got time for dat.


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## Steinerz (Jul 15, 2013)




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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

I think more guys should act like gentleman and at least at the bare minimum do the things in my first post. Be MEN.


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Waifu said:


> I think more guys should act like gentleman and at least at the bare minimum do the things in my first post. Be MEN.


I learned from feminists that a number of the things listed in the first post are sexist. Can women not drive? Can they not open doors? Must I put on this superficial show of respect? Shouldn't I just respect her for the person she is and not pretend via outdated dating rituals that I respect her because of her sex?


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

What difference does driving make?


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Rixy said:


> What difference does driving make?


The woman shouldn't have to drive to her own date that would be ridiculous.


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## M0rbid (Jan 11, 2011)

No im not elliot rodgers.


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## Jammer25 (Feb 22, 2014)

I try to do most of the things listed in the OP, but it also depends on the woman I'm dating. I don't do them with an expectation of sex or something, I do those things because I consider them being respectful towards others.


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## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

Waifu said:


> I think more guys should act like gentleman and at least at the bare minimum do the things in my first post. Be MEN.


They already are being 'men'. Just not the sort catering for you.

Abiding by those attributes does not necessarily make anyone attractive to anyone. It's more complex than that.


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## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

0/10 troll thread. So whose duplicate account is this?


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## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Waifu said:


> *Do you drive*
> *Do you pay for dates*
> Do you pull out the seat and sit last
> Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car
> ...


My boyfriend does the bolded. Good enough for me. :b Some of the things aren't necessary of course, but I still appreciate them a lot.


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

Waifu said:


> The woman shouldn't have to drive to her own date that would be ridiculous.


Oh boo hoo. Women are just delicate little flowers who can't get about by themselves?

I don't have a car, so she can get the bus instead.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

In a Lonely Place said:


> A Gentleman never tells.


Good but I would broaden it to a gentleman maintains the privacy in the relationship.



mezzoforte said:


> My boyfriend does the bolded. Good enough for me. :b Some of the things aren't necessary of course, but I still appreciate them a lot.


That sounds great congratulations.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm an excellent driver.


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## Cyclonic (Oct 25, 2012)

*Do you drive*
Yes

*Do you pay for dates*
I wouldn't mind doing it occasionally, but I would expect both of us to pay our own way most of the time

*Do you pull out the seat and sit last*
The only time this situation occurred was at prom, and yes I did

*Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car*
No experience

*Do you hold off on sex until you're in love*
No experience

*Do you listen honestly and interestedly *
Yes, I dislike when people are distracted while I talk to them (usually with a smartphone) so I don't do it out of respect of others. "Interested" depends on the subject, but you will have my full attention.

*Do you dress clean and sharp*
I think so

*Do you hold doors*
Yes, I do this regardless of gender or age


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## inerameia (Jan 26, 2012)

Seeing as I'm a teen and majority of jobs are retail and i am a ***** with have social anxiety, none of them applies to me. I need to work on the inside first.

Thanks for the thought


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## Crimson Lotus (Jul 26, 2013)

I treat all women as I wished to be treated, with due respect and consideration.

No idea if that makes me a "gentleman".


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Isn't this thread sexist? You're saying that men have to live up to a gender role (be the knight in shining armour)


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## scooby (Jun 24, 2009)

No, I'm far from it.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Paper Samurai said:


> Isn't this thread sexist? You're saying that men have to live up to a gender role (be the knight in shining armour)


You don't *have* to live up to that role but then don't expect most girls to be interested in you. The least attractive thing a guy can do is treat a girl like she's not special.


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## Cyclonic (Oct 25, 2012)

Waifu said:


> The least attractive thing a guy can do is treat a girl like she's not special.


Doesn't that work the other way around too?


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Madax said:


> Doesn't that work the other way around too?


I don't know. Does it? I don't know what guys are attracted to. Apparently not thigh gaps though. Some guy should make a thread about that.


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## caelle (Sep 9, 2008)

Your definition of a gentlemen is different than mine. All you have to do to be a gentlemen in my eyes is to let me have the last slice of pizza. I'll love you 5ever <3


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## Lazarusx (Apr 14, 2013)

Not in the slightest, i have no interest in chivalry.

I get more respect from women when i don't make them the center of my universe; which is a common trait among stereotypical 'nice guys' which is rooted in a distinct lack of self-esteem.

Im not suggesting this is specific to every situation, but on a general scale. Yes i am generalizing because i feel it's warranted here.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

What's the point of going on a date if you're not going to have sex with her? Might as well save money and stay home to masturbate.


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Nice guy enabler! Get her!


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## bluecrime (Jan 27, 2013)

I find this thread both sexist and offensive to both women and men, as well as possibly those on a lower income. Men should not be expected to act in this way, as should women not be expected to act in a submissive way towards men. Now I can’t be the only person here who believes that in a ‘relationship’ (ugh) the man and the woman should be seen as equal partners. Right? Being a person who neither aspires for conventional social relationships nor has any interest in following the social norms of society I don’t really care. Though please don’t try to tell others how things like their relationships should be. And if you absolute feel you should tell someone how to act, at least tell them something that will help them liberate themselves from the chains of society, not something that will further enchain them still.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Waifu said:


> You don't *have* to live up to that role but then don't expect most girls to be interested in you. The least attractive thing a guy can do is treat a girl like she's not special.


I'm just kidding around with you. :b If that's what you want in a relationship, fair enough. But I don't think it's fair to say that all men have to act in a certain way.


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## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

Waifu said:


> I don't know. Does it? I don't know what guys are attracted to. Apparently not thigh gaps though. Some guy should make a thread about that.


:um


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Lazarusx said:


> Not in the slightest, i have no interest in chivalry.


Chivalry you say...


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## Cyclonic (Oct 25, 2012)

Waifu said:


> I don't know. Does it? I don't know what guys are attracted to. Apparently not thigh gaps though. Some guy should make a thread about that.


I just feel that, in a relationship, both parties should make each other feel special, it's not exclusive to one gender. A man shouldn't feel "honored" that a woman would grace him with her presence, and a woman shouldn't expect it from a man, not in today's society. As bluecrime mentioned, they should be equal partners.

We live in an era where it's common for both the man and the woman in a relationship to have a job/career, both should be capable of independence, and both can take care of themselves.

Men and women should treat each other with mutual respect.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Yay for stereotypical gender roles! 

But how come domestic violence isn't on the list? I mean, if we're pining for traditional gender roles, let's keep it old school.


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## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> Yay for stereotypical gender roles!
> 
> But how come domestic violence isn't on the list? I mean, if we're pining for traditional gender roles, let's keep it old school.


Remember the 'rule of thumb' now, don't use an object any wider


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

In a Lonely Place said:


> *ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH*
> 
> WTF? Glad I didn't wave you off and wish you well now :lol


The SAS crack is hard to quit.


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## Cheesecake (Feb 2, 2007)

I have a theory on who Waifu is, but I'm not going to share it.

On-topic: I try to be polite to people, but I don't like being polite in ways that are unnecessary.


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Cheesecake said:


> I have a theory on who Waifu is, but I'm not going to share it.
> 
> On-topic: I try to be polite to people, but I don't like being polite in ways that are unnecessary.


Does it start with a G?


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Cerberus said:


> Does it start with a G?


That's who came to my mind too but I'm not so sure they are the same anymore.


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## Jesuszilla (May 26, 2013)

I just treat the women how I'd like to be treated. I've been called a gentlemen but it's not something I go out of my way for. I just strictly follow my belief of the golden rule.



Persephone The Dread said:


> I can't. Why did I have to click.. I've barely managed two days ;_; I'm terrible. But I just can't, and some people are actually taking this seriously.


Don't feel bad, I quit SAS once a week.

My record was 6 days :lol


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## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

nubly said:


> That's who came to my mind too but I'm not so sure they are the same anymore.


mmmm Well, the way she's ignoring negative posts directed at her in the way that G did is suspicious


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## extremly (Oct 25, 2012)

I think gentlemen-ness (failed, not a word) has lost the social cliche it had (e.g: its popularity) just like getting married, being a gentlemen is no longer something cool men do. Most men now a days have other ambitions as to what they want to become.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)




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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

Probably not.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

I'd do a lady one but I don't think it would fly well around here


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

knightofdespair said:


> I'd do a lady one but I don't think it would fly well around here


Please do. Who would be mad?


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

I've never been on a date, so...

But what does holding off on sex have to do with anything?

Also, paying for dates... goddamn it, it's the 21st century, stop expecting to be coddled.

You say that ladies want to be treated as though their special... it seems kind of old-fashioned, having the guy treat their dates like princesses. I feel this causes unrealistic expectations. While I won't go as far as advocating what those dumb PUA's say...


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I can't. Why did I have to click.. I've barely managed two days ;_; I'm terrible. But I just can't, and some people are actually taking this seriously.
> 
> They don't have to do any of those things really, and the bolded one.. Are women perpetually drunk or something in your mind?
> 
> ...


That's why bans were nice. But no, it was easier to not let people wait out what they requested...


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## Darktower776 (Aug 16, 2013)

minimized said:


> I've never been on a date, so...
> 
> But what does holding off on sex have to do with anything?
> 
> Also, paying for dates... goddamn it, it's the 21st century, stop expecting to be coddled.


I know this is a troll thread but here goes anyway. Imagine a guy saying the following about a girl:

I can't believe I actually had to go pick her up for the date. And then she had the nerve to split the tab for dinner instead paying for my meal too. Then she did the same at the movies instead of buying my ticket as well. I mean what a cheapskate! She didn't even think to hold open the door to the theater for me either - so inconsiderate.

Worst first date ever. Not going to be calling her again.

I'm pretty sure most people would think that guy sounds like an entitled jerk. But whatevs.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

minimized said:


> I've never been on a date, so...
> 
> But what does holding off on sex have to do with anything?
> 
> ...


It's not coddling it's proving that she's valuable to you and showing her how valuable she is. Do you really want to tell a girl she's not worth an extra 70 dollars?


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Waifu said:


> It's not coddling it's proving that she's valuable to you and showing her how valuable she is. Do you really want to tell a girl she's not worth an extra 70 dollars?


Kind of... I don't have $70 to give. But I'd still want to use my own money on myself and have her do the same. She can be independent. Unless she's got a dowry waiting for me. :b

I do believe in equality and so I take it to the conclusion. Does she want me to put a money value on her or does she want to be treated like a person instead of a child?

I do hate traditional gender roles... I hate that I'm afraid that if I did ever go on a date, I'd be judged negatively for not adhering.

Hey, when do I get to feel special? When does she show me how valuable I am? Or am I not supposed to be, because I'm just a guy...

And I'm guessing sex is supposed to be that, because that's all I am, a horndog guy... but then the "value" assigned to her would be her use as a sexual object...

There's something very a-romantic about expressing someone's value in money, but I suppose this is the game we play...


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Darktower776 said:


> I know this is a troll thread but here goes anyway. Imagine a guy saying the following about a girl:
> 
> I can't believe I actually had to go pick her up for the date. And then she had the nerve to split the tab for dinner instead paying for my meal too. Then she did the same at the movies instead of buying my ticket as well. I mean what a cheapskate! She didn't even think to hold open the door to the theater for me either - so inconsiderate.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that guy would get real far too, wouldn't he?

I think what we're getting at here is that in this context vagina is more valuable than penis.


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## Apoc (Nov 12, 2010)

You cannot be serious? So much entitlement. I need to buy a vagina.


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## sad vlad (Nov 9, 2013)

Waifu said:


> It's not coddling it's proving that she's valuable to you and showing her how valuable she is. Do you really want to tell a girl she's not worth an extra 70 dollars?


But how is the girl showing the guy how valuable he is? Simply granting him the huge honour of being in her presence, breathing the same air!? Isn't that acting superior, or having a seriously inflated ego, by today's standards?

I was raised in a more traditional society, so I am doing some of those things cause I was taught that way. But if you start looking into things, some do not look right. On some aspects, some women are keep complaining that they are not treated as equals by men, but on some other aspects, same women are expecting(and trying to impose through shaming) guys to bow in front of their greatness, maybe reduce them to the role of a simple valet.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

sad vlad said:


> But how is the girl showing the guy how valuable he is? Simply granting him the huge honour of being in her presence, breathing the same air!? Isn't that acting superior, or having a seriously inflated ego, by today's standards?
> 
> I was raised in a more traditional society, so I am doing some of those things cause I was taught that way. But if you start looking into things, some do not look right. On some aspects, some women are keep complaining that they are not treated as equals by men, but on some other aspects, same women are expecting(and trying to impose through shaming) guys to bow in front of their greatness, maybe reduce them to the role of a simple valet.


Exactly. A bit of a double-standard here. Apparently being in a girl's presence is worth the honor of doubling the bill.

It seems to me to be an awful precedent, too. Not as bad as starting off giving a girl gifts, but you're still buying her company and giving her reason to be expectant in a negative and self-serving way...


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

*Do you drive*

I drive myself crazy with insecurity every day. No car though.

*Do you pay for dates*

Of course, what would I do, grab a handful and run?

*Do you pull out the seat and sit last*

No, too theatrical. Should we start doffing our hats, too? Kissing hands? Is this 1850? If you have functioning limbs, take your own seat.

*Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car*

For my great aunt with dementia, sure.

*Do you hold off on sex until you're in love*

I've held out my entire life.

*Do you listen honestly and interestedly*

Ayup.

*Do you dress clean and sharp*

Clean, mostly. No idea what constitutes as sharp. Khakis and a T-shirt are my staple out of work. You won't find me in a suit and tie.

*Do you hold doors*

Sure, it's common courtesy. Unlike the above, letting a door slam in someone's face is actively offensive and thoughtless.


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

SadSack1987 said:


> *Do you drive*
> 
> I drive myself crazy with insecurity every day. No car though.
> 
> ...


:love2


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

Didn't realize there are so many guys against paying on a date


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

minimized said:


> Exactly. A bit of a double-standard here. Apparently being in a girl's presence is worth the honor of doubling the bill.
> 
> It seems to me to be an awful precedent, too. Not as bad as starting off giving a girl gifts, but you're still buying her company and giving her reason to be expectant in a negative and self-serving way...


Well the time period when this was common, most young women stayed at home and didn't work and men made quite a lot more compared to the cost of housing, etc. They could easily afford to pay double and the 'lady' had no income of her own.


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## eveningbat (Jan 21, 2013)

I know a few good gentlemen on this website.  But this has nothing to do with driving though.


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

i'm not really sure what constitutes a gentleman these days

Do you drive - y
Do you pay for dates - i'll offer as a courtesy she should at least contest it
Do you pull out the seat and sit last - yeah right after tipping my fedora m'lady
Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car - i'm not a limo driver
Do you hold off on sex until you're in love - lold
Do you listen honestly and interestedly - i try
Do you dress clean and sharp - do i smell? no
Do you hold doors - yes but i'd hold the door for anyone esp if its one of those mcdonalds doors that auto closes those things are lethal


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## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

eveningbat said:


> I know a few good gentlemen on this website.  But this has nothing to do with driving though.


Indeed. That's the most ridiculous thing on the list. I can simply not afford to drive a car because a lot of my money goes to taking care of my ma who was cancer and my sister that has worse SA than me plus avoidant personality disorder, since both of them can't work or go to school. A car is the least of my concerns right now. If that suddenly does not make a man a "gentleman" then I don't care. Besides, having a girl hold on to you while she's on your bicycle is much more intimate anyway.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Motorcars are such a crude invention, the Penny Farthing is the Gentlemen's preferred mode of transportation.


 I prefer coconuts.


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## drganon (Aug 10, 2011)

I don't wear a top hat or monocle, so no.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Get yourself a penny farthing, the birds love it
> 
> The poll don't lie. *http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ore-attracted-to-gentlemen-who-ride-a-420065/*


Looks like a one seater though.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

knightofdespair said:


> Well the time period when this was common, most young women stayed at home and didn't work and men made quite a lot more compared to the cost of housing, etc. They could easily afford to pay double and the 'lady' had no income of her own.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's another one of the old traditions buoyed by circumstance that doesn't hold up so well today. Even though the idea of pursuit still exists, status, job quality, pay grade, none of those are consistently reflective in the way society assumes the male must continue to the pursuer and the benefactor.

The world is a little different now and I wouldn't mind seeing those outdated traditions not hang so strongly around our necks.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Surprised there's not been more mentions of being the 'Supreme Gentleman ™' in this thread. That's the go to reference right now after all.


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## SilentLyric (Aug 20, 2012)

what a dumb list. stop living in the past.


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## Bert Reynolds (Dec 18, 2013)

I'm the supremest of all the supreme Gentlemen around.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Bert Reynolds said:


> I'm the supremest of all the supreme Gentlemen around.


I'm pretty sure the supremest of gentlemen play for the wrong team.


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## Paper Samurai (Oct 1, 2009)

Cerberus said:


> Damnit! Why didn't I think of that. Bad Cerberus. Bad.
> 
> *boobs jiggle while hitting self*


Glad to help. And congrats on your recent sex change Cerberus :b



Bert Reynolds said:


> I'm the supremest of all the supreme Gentlemen around.


This guy gets it. :yes


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## Darktower776 (Aug 16, 2013)

Paper Samurai said:


> Surprised there's not been more mentions of being the 'Supreme Gentleman ™' in this thread. That's the go to reference right now after all.


Dang it I was going to make that joke in an earlier post but went off on something else instead. 

Btw, I'm not against paying for my date and other things similar to that- It was just the thought of a girl EXPECTING all of that and if the guy didn't meet that neat little check list then she would not consider dating him again that bothered me.

Turning it around and having a guy say and expect all those things from a girl sounds ridiculous to pretty much everyone though.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Darktower776 said:


> Turning it around and having a guy say and expect all those things from a girl sounds ridiculous to pretty much everyone though.


Because it is based on customs and employment opportunities that have changed dramatically. Women used to do all the housework and make the guy a sandwich the second he got in the door too.


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## Darktower776 (Aug 16, 2013)

knightofdespair said:


> Because it is based on customs and employment opportunities that have changed dramatically. Women used to do all the housework and make the guy a sandwich the second he got in the door too.


I get what you're saying. Just wanted to point out to any females that thought the way I described in my earlier post sounded pretty ridiculous. And that if a guy demanded those things from his female dates then how he would hypocritically be looked at like an entitled jerk.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Darktower776 said:


> I get what you're saying. Just wanted to point out to any females that thought the way I described in my earlier post sounded pretty ridiculous. And that if a guy demanded those things from his female dates then how he would hypocritically be looked at like an entitled jerk.


Sometimes I think they like it.. I've pretty much given up trying to figure them out.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Oh and give girls your jacket if it's cold out we need it more than you.

And don't make her have to tell you she likes you first don't be a coward be a man and say it first.


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## Marakunda (Jun 7, 2011)

I wouldn't want to be a gentleman. 
My life having restrictions and "rules" I have to follow would be, torturous. 
Relationships have always been simple to me. At least, the thought of them have. 

It should be kept that way, simple.

How about we mutually live for each other/love each other until we both die?
Seems pretty simple. Seems worth it.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Back when men were gentlemen, they dressed dapper and still beat their wives.


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## monotonous (Feb 1, 2013)

im an ugly poor self loathing gentleman


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## Wirt (Jan 16, 2009)

Are you a gentlelady?

*digs through my gender role checklist*


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## eveningbat (Jan 21, 2013)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Motorcars are such a crude invention, the Penny Farthing is the Gentlemen's preferred mode of transportation.


wow, what a picture!


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## Steinerz (Jul 15, 2013)

Callsign said:


> Mental gentlemen surely


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## Bert Reynolds (Dec 18, 2013)

Penny farthing can't be comforting to the crotch, that's for sure.


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## Elad (Dec 6, 2009)

do girls really still expect guys to pay? 

if its not pre arranged as gift/treat whatever then its kind of a d*** move, may as well just pretend you forgot your purse

i mean i'll offer as a courtesy but i expect them to fight to pay their way a little, if she just says ok then thanks i'd make me want to escape via bathroom window


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## nothing else (Oct 27, 2013)

Driving isn't really related to being a gentlemen. With your logic poor people could never be gentlemen then or people who live out in the bushes in Papua New Guinea or Inuit or Eskimos.


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## Patriot (Oct 14, 2011)

I dress sharp, stay groomed, try to be confident, polite always, joking and stuff. Don't know if I'd say a gentleman, but I'm not an *******.


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## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

It seems to me how blind dates are so prone to failure, maybe people should just stop having them. As in get to know someone over a month or two before 'dating' them. 

You already know whats expected of each other. Maybe some of these gender role faux pas would be overlooked.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

moroff said:


> It seems to me how blind dates are so prone to failure, maybe people should just stop having them. As in get to know someone over a month or two before 'dating' them.
> 
> You already know whats expected of each other. Maybe some of these gender role faux pas would be overlooked.


But these aren't just things you should be doing for a date though. This is what men should be doing for all women. That's what makes you a gentleman and not the Nice Guy™


----------



## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

Waifu said:


> But these aren't just things you should be doing for a date though. This is what men should be doing for all women. That's what makes you a gentleman and not the Nice Guy™


 Fair enough. But you can you see how one-sided this can be in some situations?


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

moroff said:


> Fair enough. But you can you see how one-sided this can be in some situations?


We all have our roles to play. Different but complementary.


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## Cellophane (Jul 24, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Men on this forum having such a hard time getting dates: are you a gentleman?
> 
> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> ...


I think by the same toke, women must go back in time and be "ladies." Don't they? And be fragile and helpless and all of the other norms expected of them as such. And what's that about "help her balance?"

.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Cellophane said:


> I think by the same toke, women must go back in time and be "ladies." Don't they? And be fragile and helpless and all of the other norms expected of them as such. And what's that about "help her balance?"


I don't think you're remembering history right. Women weren't fragile and helpless. Take a look at women in history http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1551.html

I do think we need to go back to when women weren't so s**tty and polyamorous though. That is not a positive development. I'm all for progress but lets progress to a better society not a dump.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Waifu said:


> We all have our roles to play. Different but complementary.


And let's not forget that "proper ladies" keep their ****ing mouths shut, don't speak unless spoken to, and acquiesce to all of their man's desires, no matter how they feel about it.

I mean, we all have our roles to play, non?


----------



## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Waifu said:


> I don't think you're remembering history right. Women weren't fragile and helpless. Take a look at women in history http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1551.html
> 
> I do think we need to go back to when women weren't so s**tty and polyamorous though. That is not a positive development. I'm all for progress but lets progress to a better society not a dump.





zookeeper said:


> And let's not forget that "proper ladies" keep their ****ing mouths shut, don't speak unless spoken to, and acquiesce to all of their man's desires, no matter how they feel about it.
> 
> I mean, we all have our roles to play, non?


See the answer I gave to cellophane. That's not how things were.


----------



## Cellophane (Jul 24, 2014)

Waifu said:


> I don't think you're remembering history right. Women weren't fragile and helpless. Take a look at women in history http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1551.html
> 
> I do think we need to go back to when women weren't so s**tty and polyamorous though. That is not a positive development. I'm all for progress but lets progress to a better society not a dump.


Most of these indeed great women were not considered "ladies." And they would've probably objected to your proposition right now. The term "lady," just like the term "gentleman," is associated with certain norms that are unrealistic and oppressive usually. Can you tell me why a man is expected to help a woman "balance?" Are women inherently unable to balance while men are? I understand that to many this is just considered "courtesy," but it usually comes with a package that most women wouldn't like.

.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Cellophane said:


> Most of these indeed great women were not considered "ladies." And they would've probably objected to your proposition right now. The term "lady," just like the term "gentleman," is associated with certain norms that are unrealistic and oppressive usually. Can you tell me why a man is expected to help a woman "balance?" Are women inherently unable to balance while men are? I understand that to many this is just considered "courtesy," but it usually comes with a package that most women wouldn't like.
> 
> .


To demonstrate that he's looking out for her and cares about her safety.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Waifu said:


> See the answer I gave to cellophane. That's not how things were.


It kind of actually was absolutely how things were. Finding a list of a handful "feisty" and "uppity" women does not change the fact that, historically, traditional gender roles have relegated women to positions approximately between **** and "the help".


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Cellophane said:


> Most of these indeed great women were not considered "ladies." And they would've probably objected to your proposition right now. The term "lady," just like the term "gentleman," is associated with certain norms that are unrealistic and oppressive usually. Can you tell me why a man is expected to help a woman "balance?" Are women inherently unable to balance while men are? I understand that to many this is just considered "courtesy," but it usually comes with a package that most women wouldn't like.
> 
> .


You silly womenses, can't even decide whether you want to stand up straight or not. Good thing you've got a stoic, rational man around to help you not to fall on your emotional face.


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## Cellophane (Jul 24, 2014)

Waifu said:


> To demonstrate that he's looking out for her and cares about her safety.


From what? Again, are women inherently fragile and helpless and need men to protect them and ensure their safety and "balance"? This is what this implies from where I'm sitting. In such a world, women used to constantly keep "smelling salts" on their person and _fake _fainting at every opportunity to keep this Gentleman/Lady binary going. Both women and men are required to "demonstrate" and "pretend."

.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Cellophane said:


> From what? Again, are women inherently fragile and helpless and need men to protect them and ensure their safety and "balance"? This is what this implies from where I'm sitting. In such a world, women used to constantly keep "smelling salts" on their person and _fake _fainting at every opportunity to keep this Gentleman/Lady binary going. Both women and men are required to "demonstrate" and "pretend."
> 
> .


Yes. It doesn't need to go that excessive. Both should pretend. Let him help you out of the car or reach things from high places. He'll feel manly and like you more than the girl who said she didn't need his help.


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## Cellophane (Jul 24, 2014)

zookeeper said:


> You silly womenses, can't even decide whether you want to stand up straight or not. Good thing you've got a stoic, rational man around to help you not to fall on your emotional face.


Alas, those of us who don't have men around are doomed indeed. :no


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## Cellophane (Jul 24, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Yes. It doesn't need to go that excessive. Both should pretend. Let him help you out of the car or reach things from high places. He'll feel manly and like you more than the girl who said she didn't need his help.


Okay great. So would you like to invite men to make you a list of their ideal "pretend" lady and compare the two? I assure you most women won't like the result.

PS. How on earth could a woman pretend to be short when she's not?


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Cellophane said:


> Okay great. So would you like to invite men to make you a list of their ideal "pretend" lady and compare the two? I assure you most women won't like the result.


I did.



knightofdespair said:


> I'd do a lady one but I don't think it would fly well around here





Waifu said:


> Please do. Who would be mad?





Cellophane said:


> PS. How on earth could a woman pretend to be short when she's not?


Well I don't know your height. You might not be able to use that one. Most women are shorter than men so it's a good one in general.


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## Cellophane (Jul 24, 2014)

Waifu said:


> I did.


Yea, most of what I see in this thread is ridicule, accusations of sexism, _and _assertions that"gentleman" beat their "lady" wives.



Waifu said:


> Well I don't know your height. You might not be able to use that one. Most women are shorter than men so it's a good one in general.


Never fear, with my thinness, I still have other tricks up my sleeve.

.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Remember guys if there are no more seats left don't make a woman stand. That makes you look very bad.


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## ScorchedEarth (Jul 12, 2014)

It must be neat sitting back, taking none of the risks, expecting to be treated like royalty and then paid for. Wonder what kind of delusion it takes to think that this is fair on both parties.


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## TicklemeRingo (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm just going to type the word "Blowjobs" and leave it here without comment.

Blowjobs.


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## riderless (Jul 21, 2013)

Less and less these days as I try to defend myself against female verbal assaults...


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## Znuffle (Jul 22, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> Do you pull out the seat and sit last
> Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car
> ...


- I drive.
- I pay for the date ofc.
- Pull out seat and sit last?... If i meant something to her and if I was told to do it I'd do it for her. But wouldn't do it normally
- Rarely.. They seem to walk just fine and they are more comfortable if I didn't touch them in anyway for some reason. 
- Nope.. Tho I'd only want to have sex if my partner wanted me badly.
- Honestly.. Always.
- Nope.. Ain't got the money for that and I hope she likes me for who I am not how I dress..
- Yes if I know she is close behind me and I like her I'd do that for her <3

I'm not a gentleman right? Thought so :'(


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## Alas Babylon (Aug 28, 2012)

Waifu said:


> Oh and give girls your jacket if it's cold out we need it more than you.


That's certainly an odd point of view. It's almost as if rom-com's became a social code.



> And don't make her have to tell you she likes you first don't be a coward be a man and say it first.


Ha. If I'm dating someone, I expect them to be an adult and be able to talk to me.

If they want to date me, they can ask.



Waifu said:


> I do think we need to go back to when women weren't so s**tty and polyamorous though. That is not a positive development. I'm all for progress but lets progress to a better society not a dump.


Why isn't it positive?

I know some women who are very 'sex positive'-ish, and they're probably some of the most accepting and well-adjusted people I know. I like people who know their own needs, and are able to be open about it.

Why are they wrong?



Waifu said:


> Men on this forum having such a hard time getting dates: are you a gentleman?
> 
> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> ...


Who the hell even cares?

My essential thoughts about the gender roles around dating are "***** that". No one _has_ to do anything.

If you want a traditional experience, go for t. But it doesn't mean anyone else has to play along, and it certainly doesn't mean they aren't a 'real man' or woman because they don't.

You can quite easily date people of any gender without adhering to such trite.



Waifu said:


> I think more guys should act like gentleman and at least at the bare minimum do the things in my first post. Be MEN.


At least? You have some high expectations.



Waifu said:


> The woman shouldn't have to drive to her own date that would be ridiculous.


I hope, and suspect, that you are trolling.

But I replied seriously just because I dislike this kind of thinking. You get a lot of people who would prefer a 'traditional' style of dating, and that's fine, but then they act like anyone different should follow suite just because.


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## Testsubject (Nov 25, 2013)

Doubtful some arbitrary list is needed to validate some subjective sense of being a gentlemen, much less a man.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Alas Babylon said:


> My essential thoughts about the gender roles around dating are "***** that". No one _has_ to do anything.
> 
> If you want a traditional experience, go for t. But it doesn't mean anyone else has to play along, and it certainly doesn't mean they aren't a 'real man' or woman because they don't.
> 
> You can quite easily date people of any gender without adhering to such trite.


That's right you don't have to be a gentleman or follow these rules. If you're having great success with dating and already found the love of your life then congratulations and you don't need my advice. But a lot of men here are posting about their inability to get dates or when they do she doesn't want a second date with him. Those are who this thread is aimed at.


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## Alas Babylon (Aug 28, 2012)

Waifu said:


> . But a lot of men here are posting about their inability to get dates or when they do she doesn't want a second date with him. Those are who this thread is aimed at.


I hardly think posting your own criteria for what you find attractive, or simply desire, in a man constitutes as 'advice' with so much as a target audience. You'd have to be fairly egotistical to think that your personal preferences are so widely applicable or relevant.

Acting like the only way to get a girl is by adhering to what a handful of posters define as 'gentlemanly' is quite a fallacy. It's simply misleading to say anyone needs to act like this unless they want to do so.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Alas Babylon said:


> I hardly think posting your own criteria for what you find attractive, or simply desire, in a man constitutes as 'advice' with so much as a target audience. You'd have to be fairly egotistical to think that your personal preferences are so widely applicable or relevant.
> 
> Acting like the only way to get a girl is by adhering to what a handful of posters define as 'gentlemanly' is quite a fallacy. It's simply misleading to say anyone needs to act like this unless they want to do so.


I never said it was the only way. I wonder if you're disagreeing because you actually don't believe me or because you just don't want it to be true. Do you really believe that, all else equal, a man who drives won't have more dating success on average than a man who takes the bus? That a man who pays for the date won't have a higher chance of getting a second? Don't let your idealism blind you to reality.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Indeed, I always offer a lady to sit on my lap if all the seats are taken.


Lol this - Yeah the guy wants to stand all day for some woman who could care less if he fell over and died on the spot.. Maybe they should put more seats on the bus?


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## anomnomnom (May 28, 2013)

aint no one got time for dat

Glad I'm single and not looking :sus

Would have zero intention of wanting to be with any woman who expected all that ****.

I'll treat them with respect, I'll be kind...I'm not even against paying for a date (but I'd at least want them to "offer" halves even if I go on to reject them) 

The holding doors, yeah fair enough I do that but thats just "not being a d***" in general

eh, I aint going through the rest of it, it aint the 1900's, I'm sure you can manage to get out of a car unassisted :|


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## Schmosby (Jan 26, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Men on this forum having such a hard time getting dates: are you a gentleman?
> 
> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> ...


Wtf are any of those to do with being a gentleman, it looks more like a list for pulling gold diggers.


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## low (Sep 27, 2009)

*Do you drive*
No

*Do you pay for dates*
No because women earn just as much as men (more in some controlled studies) as well as having privilege under 'positive' discrimination in work placement. Therefore I don't see why I should have to pay for someone just because they have a vagina. Nor do I see how doing so would make me a gentleman, as most women claim to want equality. It's basically holding on to old behaviours which benefit women at mens expense. Etc. But I don't date as I don't seek female vailidation, and this is all hypothetical anyway.

*Do you pull out the seat and sit last*
No. She can pull her own seat in. She's not a child and she's not royalty. Women need to get over their princess syndrome.

*Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car*
Could do that, no problem.

*Do you hold off on sex until you're in love*
No.

*Do you listen honestly and interestedly *
Always try to.

*Do you dress clean and sharp*
Clean but no, fashion sucks.

*Do you hold doors*
Yes. For anyone in general. It's polite.


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## anomnomnom (May 28, 2013)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Pig!
> 
> :no


I know, I'm such an a**hole 

I doubt I'd pull the seat out for her either! it gets worse


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

It's cute that my bf insists on walking on the outside edge of the pavement. To protect me from the grave danger of being splashed by passing vehicles.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

diamondheart89 said:


> It's cute that my bf insists on walking on the outside edge of the pavement.


Aww. Totally forgot that one. Add it to the list!


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## Rixy (Oct 4, 2009)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Next you'll be saying you don't throw your coat down over a puddle to stop a fair maiden getting her shoes dirty.
> 
> :no


I ain't putting my coat down unless she's getting me a new one afterwards.


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## anomnomnom (May 28, 2013)

In a Lonely Place said:


> Next you'll be saying you don't throw your coat down over a puddle to stop a fair maiden getting her shoes dirty.
> 
> :no


I hold my hands up, you got me...I probably wouldn't

Boy am I a catch 

You know, in response to this thread, if a guy actually did Everything in the list I'd bet a fair wad of money that the girl would probably be commenting to all her friends about the "weirdo" she just had a date with, my ex wouldn't have appreciated being treat like a child..


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## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

>"men on this forum having a hard time getting dates"
>Lists actions that involve a date to begin with


No offense, but this seems a little bit contradictory, don't you think?


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

diamondheart89 said:


> It's cute that my bf insists on walking on the outside edge of the pavement. To protect me from the grave danger of being splashed by passing vehicles.


Or maybe you guys could use some common sense and not go right next to wet holes in the road where you could get splashed...


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

The Exodus said:


> >"men on this forum having a hard time getting dates"
> *>Lists actions that involve a date to begin with
> *
> 
> No offense, but this seems a little bit contradictory, don't you think?


Almost none of those require having a date.

hold doors open for *all* women.
treat your coworker or classmate to lunch even if she's not dating you.
never sit down before the women in your party are seated and always stand up when another woman enters.
etc.


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## midnightson (Nov 6, 2013)

Waifu said:


> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> Do you listen honestly and interestedly
> Do you hold doors


Yes.



Waifu said:


> Do you pull out the seat and sit last
> Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car
> Do you hold off on sex until you're in love


lol no.


----------



## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

anomnomnom said:


> I hold my hands up, you got me...I probably wouldn't
> 
> Boy am I a catch
> 
> You know, in response to this thread, if a guy actually did Everything in the list I'd bet a fair wad of money that the girl would probably be commenting to all her friends about the "weirdo" she just had a date with, my ex wouldn't have appreciated being treat like a child..


Meh I'm pretty close to just taking up "Waifu" on her offer.. Find out how many of the 'ladies' on here are making their guy a sandwich, making him dinner every night, and putting out whenever he has needs.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> Do you pull out the seat and sit last
> Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car
> ...


This was excellent advice 100 years ago.

I have my own list which I use to find out if a girl I'm interested in is high maintenance:

Does she expect you to drive everywhere?
Does she expect you to pay for everything?
Does she expect you to treat her like an invalid?
Does she withhold sex to get what she wants?
Does she expect you to pay attention when she gives orders?
Does she get irritated when your appearance reflects poorly on her?

Not my cuppa, but have at, gents.


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## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Almost none of those require having a date.
> 
> hold doors open for *all* women.
> treat your coworker or classmate to lunch even if she's not dating you.
> ...


I don't know, it still seems a little bit over the top, but I'll go through it anyway;

*Do you drive*

I shouldn't have to, I'm 17, I can hardly get a real drivers license yet, and even if I did, I'm pretty sure my anxiety would get in the way of driving anywhere. So, because I have anxiety, does that not make me a gentleman?

*Do you pay for dates*

I don't see why that's my duty alone. I'd be happy to split it, and maybe pay for it wholly occasionally, but certainly not all the time. That's just ridiculous.

*Do you pull out the seat and sit last*

Seems a bit unnecessary. Unless my date is incapable of pulling it out themselves, why is that my responsibility?

*Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car*

Why would she struggle to get her balance? If she's having trouble getting out of a car, then maybe, but I've never seen anyone struggle to get out of a car before.

*Do you hold off on sex until you're in love*

I'm not interested in sex until I'm in a well founded relationship, so yes I would.

*Do you listen honestly and interestedly *

I do that with everyone, so yes.

*Do you dress clean and sharp*

Depends whether it's necessary to go black tie / white tie to a date. Personally, if it's just for a coffee, I don't see why it should be. It depends how deep into the relationship we are.

*Do you hold doors*

I hold doors for everyone.


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## Uncertain (Aug 2, 2014)

Looking at this, I personally feel like this is catering and over-coddling to the woman. At least some of these. :/
This isn't back in the day. We live in the now where if you're 50/50, everyone wins.
I mean, sure, its nice to be able to enjoy a date without worrying about expenses or the road. I think the one hosting the date (who asked first and setting everything up) should take care of these two here. Doesn't matter if the man or the woman. 
I personally took care of the expenses and place of the date for my first one. It put me in a state of control of comfort. I didn't worry about feeling like a free loader (as I usually do when someone tries to pay for my meals) and knowing in-mind where to go next and where to drive gave me confidence and helped me focus on the date. 
I like knowing what I'm doing and me handling it myself.

Don't get me wrong- guys who do this, good for them.
I personally wouldn't like it if a guy did all this. The idea of him being in charge and treating me like a fragile flower would tick me off.


----------



## UndreamingAwake (Apr 11, 2011)

^ That's what I call being a real woman.


----------



## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

The Exodus said:


> I shouldn't have to,
> I don't see why that's my duty alone.
> Seems a bit unnecessary.
> why is that my responsibility?
> ...


So you don't ever do anything that isn't necessary? You live your life like a robot doing only the absolute essentials and analyzing every single moment to make sure you're doing only the bare minimum that you can to survive? Why even date or make friends or be social at all if that's how you feel?


----------



## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

Uncertain said:


> Looking at this, I personally feel like this is catering and over-coddling to the woman. At least some of these. :/
> This isn't back in the day. We live in the now where if you're 50/50, everyone wins.
> I mean, sure, its nice to be able to enjoy a date without worrying about expenses or the road. I think the one hosting the date (who asked first and setting everything up) should take care of these two here. Doesn't matter if the man or the woman.
> I personally took care of the expenses and place of the date for my first one. It put me in a state of control of comfort. I didn't worry about feeling like a free loader (as I usually do when someone tries to pay for my meals) and knowing in-mind where to go next and where to drive gave me confidence and helped me focus on the date.
> ...


This is a very good answer. Nowadays, equality is more important than one being taken care of. I mean, cool if a guy does all that, but it would only be fair of him to expect a girl who took as much care of him as well.

Personally, I'd love taking care of my girlfriend and doing a lot of favours for her (it's hard at the moment since it's long distance), but I don't think there should ever be an explicit list of things I "need" to do to be good enough and I like it when she shows that she cares about me too. It's not like it's only the guy's job to help the person they love.


----------



## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

Waifu said:


> So you don't ever do anything that isn't necessary? You live your life like a robot doing only the absolute essentials and analyzing every single moment to make sure you're doing only the bare minimum that you can to survive? Why even date or make friends or be social at all if that's how you feel?


All of these things are completely unnecessary, and looking at other posts on here, I can see that other people more or less see it the same way. I don't see how not pulling out a chair for someone or not holding on to someone makes me a robot. Last time I checked, women were pretty capable of doing these things themselves. Why is this all directed towards men? Are women not supposed to pay for dinner, hold open doors, help others out of cars, etc. ? These all seem almost archaic. What happened to gender equality?


----------



## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

The Exodus said:


> All of these things are completely unnecessary, and looking at other posts on here, I can see that other people more or less see it the same way. I don't see how not pulling out a chair for someone or not holding on to someone makes me a robot. Last time I checked, women were pretty capable of doing these things themselves. Why is this all directed towards men? Are women not supposed to pay for dinner, hold open doors, help others out of cars, etc. ? These all seem almost archaic. What happened to gender equality?


Equality shouldn't mean clones of each other. People are different. Gender equality should mean equal but complementary roles. Not duplicate roles.


----------



## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Equality shouldn't mean clones of each other. People are different. Gender equality should mean equal but complementary roles. Not duplicate roles.


So, what do you personally think would constitute a decent female role in this whole ordeal?


----------



## Ntln (Apr 27, 2012)

Waifu said:


> Equality shouldn't mean clones of each other. People are different. Gender equality should mean equal but complementary roles. Not duplicate roles.


I agree with this point, it's not like you have to do the EXACT same things to your partner as they do to you, as long as what you return is equivalent. But, it still feels like you're enforcing gender roles. I mean, a relationship where the guy cooks and cleans and the girl does all this "gentlemanly" stuff would still be considered equal. It's perfectly fine for you to demand such things from a boyfriend. But it feels like you're essentially saying all men should be like that, and you were awfully specific about what it is required in the first post. Some couples don't put much emphasis on this, and some women might have a completely different list of things they demand from a man that could be completely different from yours. There's no point in judging other people's relationships and choice of partner, since everyone has different wants and needs.


----------



## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

The Exodus said:


> So, what do you personally think would constitute a decent female role in this whole ordeal?


Well I was hoping guys would tell me what they expect but since none did: my opinion is that men show they care physically and women show they care emotionally.



Ntln said:


> I agree with this point, it's not like you have to do the EXACT same things to your partner as they do to you, as long as what you return is equivalent. But, it still feels like you're enforcing gender roles. I mean, a relationship where the guy cooks and cleans and the girl does all this "gentlemanly" stuff would still be considered equal. It's perfectly fine for you to demand such things from a boyfriend. But it feels like you're essentially saying all men should be like that, and you were awfully specific about what it is required in the first post. Some couples don't put much emphasis on this, and some women might have a completely different list of things they demand from a man that could be completely different from yours. There's no point in judging other people's relationships and choice of partner, since everyone has different wants and needs.


I said a few times it's not for everyone but I also said lets be realistic here and look at reality. Most women want that. Who would have more dating success the guy who drives or the guy who doesnt? The guy who pays or the guy who makes her split? If you don't want that and don't want a girl who likes those things then fine but you're closing out probably 2/3rds of your possible dating pool. Almost no one except feminazis will be upset if you do these things but many will be upset if you don't.


----------



## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

I always give her a good gift on her birthday and xmas, how about that?


----------



## The Exodus (Jul 31, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Well I was hoping guys would tell me what they expect but since none did: my opinion is that men show they care physically and women show they care emotionally.


I'm rather in tune with my own emotions, so I'm capable of caring physically and emotionally, if I'm required to. I'd consider myself more of an emotional kind of person.

In all honesty, my ideal girlfriend would be almost a mirror image of my own personality, ideologies and interests. This isn't to say she has to be a clone, but I would love it if she acted in a much similar way to how I do. This is why I find doing these things would completely jeopardise my situation, because it would effectively be like giving her special treatment, when she really doesn't differ much from myself. If she actually requested I do these things, that just makes me feel like she's taking advantage, and I don't think I'd want that kind of relationship.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

diamondheart89 said:


> It's cute that my bf insists on walking on the outside edge of the pavement. To protect me from the grave danger of *being splashed by passing vehicles*.


Isn't that more for protection of a car going onto the pavement.


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## diamondheart89 (Mar 21, 2011)

^
It was a thing before cars, I have no idea why but it's still cute.



knightofdespair said:


> Or maybe you guys could use some common sense and not go right next to wet holes in the road where you could get splashed...


Thanks. I'm totally going to run my relationship and life based on your advice. :yes


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## blacknight112 (Dec 11, 2013)

truant said:


> This was excellent advice 100 years ago.
> 
> I have my own list which I use to find out if a girl I'm interested in is high maintenance:
> 
> ...


Lol

Does she prepare and cook your meals?
Does she keep her mouth closed in public(attitude or anger in check)?
Does she respect your reign as king of the household?
Does she clean the house from top to bottom?
Does she launder your clothes?

Did I miss anything.... anybody wanna add?


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

What's all this 'Does he drive?' business? A true gentleman will pick me up in a horse and carriage!


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## Donnie in the Dark (Mar 15, 2011)

A gentleman also polishes his shoes, belt and nose daily.


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## zoslow (Jun 2, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Well I was hoping guys would tell me what they expect but since none did: my opinion is that men show they care physically and women show they care emotionally.


What do you mean with women showing that they care emotionally more precisely?

I am in favour for more traditional gender roles in a relationship and so I wouldn't mind doing a lot of things that men are 'supposed' to do like handy work around the house, possibly be the one that works the most and brings in the most money, be a gentleman and pay for some things for her, get doors for her, whatever it is really, look after and care for her. Also since I'm not the most emotional person I could be more of a steady rock in the relationship.

But then I would expect her to fulfill her part too in the relationship as a woman and for instance if she works less, be the one that looks after the house more and cleans/cooks, basically make things go around at home. I would also expect her to behave like a lady and don't go running at clubs in ****** outfits all the time or flirting with other guys, much like I'd be a gentleman and faithful to her. I would also expect that when I desired her or needed her I knew she would be there for me.

However though I am in favour of the traditional gender roles as I said, I don't think it is something that should be written in stone. Of course I could do some housework now and then for instance, no problem. And if it came to a point where I felt weak for once I'd like to be able to show it to her and have her comfort me even if it would usually be the other way around. But overall I would probably have difficulties being with someone that wants everything to be equal and alike in the relationship.


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

W A N D E R L U S T said:


> I would never let a guy pull my seat out for me! The danger of him thinking he's funny and pulling it out from under me just as I'm going to sit down is *very real*.


Oh good, I'm not the only one with that fear


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## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Paper Samurai said:


> Surprised there's not been more mentions of being the 'Supreme Gentleman ™' in this thread. That's the go to reference right now after all.


I don't know that one, so I'll go with this one:
_"Well, it has been said that I'm a gentleman, but never a gentle man."_


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## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

blacknight112 said:


> Lol
> 
> Does she prepare and cook your meals?
> Does she keep her mouth closed in public(attitude or anger in check)?
> ...


You forgot BJs.

As the old saying goes, "_to keep a man satisfied, all you have to do is fill his stomach and empty his balls._"


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Well I was hoping guys would tell me what they expect but since none did: my opinion is that men show they care physically and women show they care emotionally.


Women expect men to be emotionally caring as well. Try getting through a relationship without being emotionally caring to your gf, see how long that lasts. Being in relationship is about being partners, emotionally _and_ physically, not cardboard cutouts of Victorian gender roles.



blacknight112 said:


> Lol
> 
> Does she prepare and cook your meals?
> Does she keep her mouth closed in public(attitude or anger in check)?
> ...


And don't forget...








TheWelshOne said:


> What's all this 'Does he drive?' business? A true gentleman will pick me up in a horse and carriage!


A true gentleman will help me climb on his mastodon.


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## GilMon (Aug 4, 2014)

The True Gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and who appears well in any company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

You mention all things men can do, but not how they should be. When someone doesn't fit those requirements they must not be a gentlemen. It seems women expect a lot from men but have you ever heard a man give a list like that? She should turn on the tv, she should put out the garbage, she should always say please... it's quite nonsense. Guys and girls should just be kind to each other, stimulate each other, love each other, no matter what they do or how they act. And a relationship should be equal, not one sided. So both men and women can help each other, share payments, give as much attention, listen... That doesn't mean I don't open doors, or listen well, it just means both of us can show we appreciate each other!


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

truant said:


> A true gentleman will help me climb on his mastodon.


Where's your concern for a woman's safety? Those things are dangerous 



Waifu said:


> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> Do you pull out the seat and sit last
> Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car
> ...


In all seriousness, I wouldn't hold most of these as 'gentlemanly' behaviours.

If this is my first date with a guy who's practically a stranger, I am not getting into his car. I will meet him wherever he wants to go.

Again, first date, I wouldn't be averse to him paying if it was his idea, but I wouldn't expect it. Every other date, I would split the cost, and if there was something that I suggested we do then I would pay for the whole thing.

I would never want a guy to hold a chair for me, because I wouldn't trust him (as W A N D E R L U S T said).

Fairly sure the 'helping out of a car' thing is only necessary when women wear ridiculously high heels that they can't walk in but think make them attractive. I don't wear them, therefore I need no help getting out of a car.

I wouldn't expect a guy to hold off having sex until he's in love - just until I was ready.

Listening honestly and interestedly... the only fault I find in this one is that it shouldn't only apply to women you're trying to date. This is just common courtesy.

Dressing clean, again common courtesy. Dressing sharp, if it's expected for the venue, go ahead. Otherwise I'm in jeans and a T-shirt and you can wear whatever the hell you want.

*I* hold doors for people - even men sometimes.


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## Royals (Jul 20, 2012)

TheWelshOne said:


> Where's your concern for a woman's safety? Those things are dangerous
> 
> In all seriousness, I wouldn't hold most of these as 'gentlemanly' behaviours.
> 
> ...


Now this is how all independent women who want to be/feel equal to men should act


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## Cenarius (Aug 2, 2014)

I walk my coworker to her car on the nights that we have to stay late because we work in a not so good neighborhood. Does that make me a gentleman?


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

TheWelshOne said:


> Where's your concern for a woman's safety? Those things are dangerous


A real gentleman knows how to train his mastodon. And if he doesn't, and his mastodon tries to step on me, I expect him to kill it and cook it.

Mm. Thick, juicy mastodon steaks.



Cenarius said:


> I walk my coworker to her car on the nights that we have to stay late because we work in a not so good neighborhood. Does that make me a gentleman?


Does she know you're walking her to her car? It's the difference that makes a difference.


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## Cenarius (Aug 2, 2014)

truant said:


> Does she know you're walking her to her car? I find that makes all the difference.


Lol, yes, she asked me to.


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## TheWelshOne (Sep 29, 2013)

truant said:


> A real gentleman knows how to train his mastodon. And if he doesn't, and his mastodon tries to step on me, I expect him to kill it and cook it.
> 
> Mm. Thick, juicy mastodon steaks.


Well wait, if he's a gentleman then he'll expect *us* to do the cooking.

And just remember, to thank him for killing his beloved mastodon, let him give you something else thick and juicy


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## Noll (Mar 29, 2011)

I try to be nice to everyone, the whole white knight demeanor disgusts me to be honest.


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## Durzo (Jun 4, 2011)

I have a question for you waifu....

For arguments sake, lets assume that a man abides by these gender roles you laid out. He is a gentleman in the utmost definition of the word. Then would you agree that it is the wifes duty to give sex whenever he wants? As it is your job to keep your man sexually satisfied? I am not saying this is the correct or wrong way, I am curious as to what you think.

As for my opinion on these "criteria" you have clearly outlined, and probably wrote just to annoy people, they sound pretty insane. The one statement you said that paying for women even if you aren't dating, just because they have a vagina and I would have a penis so I should feel obligated to pay is ludicrous to be honest. I am not going to put anyone on a pedestal because of their genitalia, and neither should any one else, man or woman. If I was rich enough sure I would pay for anyone, but the fact is if they are my colleague, they probably make similar money to me. So why is it fair to pay for them?

I sincerely hope you are trolling.


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## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

TheWelshOne said:


> Well wait, if he's a gentleman then he'll expect *us* to do the cooking.


That depends. Is it a BBQ? Everyone knows that's men's work.



TheWelshOne said:


> And just remember, to thank him for killing his beloved mastodon, let him give you something else thick and juicy


Yes. A real gentleman gives and gives and gives. It's just the right thing to do.


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## 87wayz (Jul 5, 2012)

Not at all, but it's mainly because I have a hard time figuring out how to be considerate and read social cues. And I can be very stubborn and irritable. I hate that. I'm like an old man.


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Men on this forum having such a hard time getting dates: are you a gentleman?
> 
> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> ...


And at the same time women want to be equal to men. hmmm something is not right here.

Pulling out a seat for a girl on a date or holding her hand while she gets out of a car is very very weird. They are outdated. As for the rest on the list, I'd say i do them not because I want to be a gentlemen but because they are essential. everyone should have a car and dress nicely. I should expect the same from any girl I date. Although, I also find paying for the date is also really outdated and hopefully one day this will evaporate from society. It just doesn't make any sense that a man should pay for both when the girl/woman has a job that pays the same or close to the mans paycheck.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

rainynights said:


> And at the same time women want to be equal to men. hmmm something is not right here.
> 
> Pulling out a seat for a girl on a date or holding her hand while she gets out of a car is very very weird. They are outdated. As for the rest on the list, I'd say i do them not because I want to be a gentlemen but because they are essential. everyone should have a car and dress nicely. I should expect the same from any girl I date. Although, I also find paying for the date is also really outdated and hopefully one day this will evaporate from society. It just doesn't make any sense that a man should pay for both when the girl/woman has a job that pays the same or close to the mans paycheck.


The man pays because a date is his audition for the woman and it would be ridiculous to make her pay for his chance.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

Good thing I don't need to audition for women. It's not like I'm going to be in a play anytime soon. The plays of life are most odious indeed.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Waifu said:


> The man pays because a date is his audition for the woman and it would be ridiculous to make her pay for his chance.


I... can't... even...


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Noll said:


> I try to be nice to everyone, the whole white knight demeanor disgusts me to be honest.


Me too


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

How the f*** did I miss this thread? :blank

So much I could reply to, but I'll pick and choose...And given the length of this thread, I'll probably end up losing my marbles at some point...



Waifu said:


> It's not coddling it's proving that she's valuable to you and showing her how valuable she is. Do you really want to tell a girl she's not worth an extra 70 dollars?


Any woman who gets upset that I didn't spend "an extra $70" on her won't get a second date from me. Dating isn't about how much you spend on a woman. Women who expect to be treated with expensive dinners and anything that's "an extra $70" is a gold digger.

I'm not against paying on a date, but I'm also not made of money.



Waifu said:


> Oh and give girls your jacket if it's cold out we need it more than you.
> 
> And don't make her have to tell you she likes you first don't be a coward be a man and say it first.


I don't have a problem offering my jacket... But what if I'm not wearing one either? I tend to be an a**hole and not wear jackets a lot.

What if the date shows me how I don't like her? After all, that's the purpose of dating... Figure out if you like each other. She could be someone who expects me to be her servant and bank account rather than be a date.

Being serious, if a woman likes a man, why should she not say it herself? Why is it ok for women to be a bit timid, but not ok for men? If I'm a coward because I don't speak up when that time comes, so is she if she likes me and says nothing.

I get the sense that Waifu isn't a big fan of gender equality.



Waifu said:


> That's right you don't have to be a gentleman or follow these rules. If you're having great success with dating and already found the love of your life then congratulations and you don't need my advice. But a lot of men here are posting about their inability to get dates or when they do she doesn't want a second date with him. Those are who this thread is aimed at.


Oh really... Lets go through your list...

Do you drive... I own a car, yes. So does every woman I've dated. Most women these days drive themselves to at least the first few dates.

Do you pay for dates... I have and I like to when I can afford it. Not all of us are rich. Does that mean we don't deserve to date? Women I've dated have all been good at picking up the bill on occasion.

Do you pull out the seat and sit last... In a formal setting, I probably would. In any average restaurant, I've never had a woman wait for that. What if we get a booth? Do I need to pick her up and sit her down like I'm putting a baby into a highchair?

Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car... Again, never had a woman wait for that. If she's riding with me, she's out of the car and standing on her own two feet usually before I am as I make sure I do things like put the ipod away, make sure I have my phone and hide any valuables that might be in the car.

Do you hold off on sex until you're in love... Nope. Sexual compatibility is a requirement for love. I know you will argue that. What you cannot argue, is that most women are quite sexual and want it just as bad as guys do. The fact is that the 5 women I've had sex with all initiated the first times with me and I only ever fell in love with one of them.

Do you listen honestly and interestedly... Yup. Just like I do anyone else who I'm interested in listening to (co-workers, friends, family... well most of them anyway).

Do you dress clean and sharp... Always showered and clothes are clean. "Sharpness" depends on the setting, but I also refuse to pay top dollar for clothes that I won't wear often. I find women to be the same. If we're going somewhere nice, she'll dress nice too. If we're going somewhere more average, we both just might wear a hoodie and jogging pants.

Do you hold doors... I hold doors for anyone who is walking behind me, men or women. However, I am no longer surprised when a random woman swears at me for being a sexist pig and telling me that she can do it herself. Yes, that really does happen. I told her if that's how she felt, we can go back outside, try again and I would then let the door slam in her face. (Goes with my personal policy that if you're going to be an a**hole to me, I'm going to be an a**hole to you.)

Not being a gentleman is not why I have trouble getting dates. However, your version of a gentleman is my version of a servant and a doormat.



Waifu said:


> Well I was hoping guys would tell me what they expect but since none did: my opinion is that men show they care physically and women show they care emotionally.


Here are my expectations...

I have a car and a decent job, I expect her to as well.

I have no problem driving us anywhere, neither should she.

I like to pay for dates, but my wallet is not bottomless. It's nice to not have to pay every last dollar.

I will hold a door for you. If you get there first, I would expect you to show the same courtesy.

I will listen to how your day went, as long as you listen to how mine went. I will not listen to your gossip and drama (aka talking behind anyone's back) and I will not bring that to the conversation table myself.

We will be physically active. Being healthy is a priority.

I will be there for you on your bad days, and I expect you to be there for me on mine. Note: This is NOT that cliché "if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best". That's a load of s*** because it's a license to be a complete b**** all the time. Our efforts every day need to focus on being good to each other while taking care of each other during the bumps in the road.

Sex will happen when we're both ready. While I do believe that sexual compatibility is a requirement to finally be in love, the only two people who should have any input into whether it happens on Date 1 or 100 are the two people involved. Those two people are also the only ones who should have an opinion on whether or not they did it too soon or if they waited too long. Nobody else's two cents on my sex life means anything to me.

I'm sure there are more, but I'm not typing everything at 2am.



Waifu said:


> The man pays because a date is his audition for the woman and it would be ridiculous to make her pay for his chance.


Holy f***! A date is a man's audition for the woman he's with. I will actually give you that specific point... HOWEVER, a date is also a woman's audition for the man she's with. What if I go on a date and she ends up being a total c***? We're not f***ing cavemen. We have thoughts that go beyond putting the P in the V. It is possible for us to be turned off on a date and not want to see a woman for a second time.

I'm curious as to why you haven't replied to many (if any) of the women here who see right through this outdated bull**** you brought to the table in this thread.

Ah f*** it... Gwyn??


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Benevolent sexism is still sexism.


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## arnie (Jan 24, 2012)




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## TheHopeless (Sep 11, 2013)

The fedora-wearing self-proclaimed "nice guys" have ruined the word "gentleman" for me.

So, no, I'm not a "gentleman" because that word just makes me think of those fedora-wearing idiots who complain about "the friend zone" all the time and think women are only for sex. You know, those guys who are always like, "Hurdy hurdy hurdy, that girl had _one_ conversation with me. She _owes_ me sex now, but she won't give it to me because I'm a _nice guy_ and girls only like jerks. Guh, stupid women! I demand they give me sex right now! Gosh, women are such biotches. They need to stop acting like human beings with needs and goals of their own so they can just get on their knees and suck on my peepee already, because women aren't people! Ugh, the life of a nice guy in the friend zone!"

I'm not a "gentleman" but I am a nice person, more or less. I'm polite and considerate toward strangers, but deep down I hate everyone. I just don't want to act like an a-hole due to my misanthropy, because otherwise I'd be no better than all the other a-hole humans.


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Waifu said:


> The man pays because a date is his audition for the woman and it would be ridiculous to make her pay for his chance.


Well men should pay for the first date because typically men ask out the women but should a man be paying for every date after the first one.

If a man or women does something that makes him seem like a genuine or nice person then that's great but If society says men should pay for every date then it's not really reflected on the man rather then the man obeying to society to carry out this deed because everyone else says to do it.

Now if two people both pay for their own food or drinks etc then they both come off as friends which isn't good. I'm just saying that women should feel just as obligated to pay for a date.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Waifu said:


> Do you drive?
> Do you pay for dates?
> Do you pull out the seat and sit last?
> Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car?
> ...


Lets see here...

1: No. I have vision issues which prevents this altogether.

2: I will pay, yes. Although I would not mind if the woman would pay also. That is how it is supposed to be. Give and take. Not one-sided towards either gender.

3: I have not needed to do that.

4: I have not needed to do that.

5: I hold off sex all the time since I have never gotten that far. Ever.

6: Yes.

7: I try to.

8: All the time if I can see someone behind me.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

TheHopeless said:


> I'm not a "gentleman" but I am a nice person, more or less. I'm polite and considerate toward strangers, but deep down I hate everyone. I just don't want to act like an a-hole due to my misanthropy, because otherwise I'd be no better than all the other a-hole humans.


This sounds like me.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

rainynights said:


> Well men should pay for the first date because typically men ask out the women but should a man be paying for every date after the first one.
> 
> If a man or women does something that makes him seem like a genuine or nice person then that's great but If society says men should pay for every date then it's not really reflected on the man rather then the man obeying to society to carry out this deed because everyone else says to do it.
> 
> Now if two people both pay for their own food or drinks etc then they both come off as friends which isn't good. I'm just saying that women should feel just as obligated to pay for a date.


Why should women feel just as obligated to pay when the date is the man's opportunity to audition for her? She shouldn't have to pay for his chance to get with her.


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Why should women feel just as obligated to pay when the date is the man's opportunity to audition for her? She shouldn't have to pay for his chance to get with her.


A date is two ways. No one is auditioning for anyone. Men and women can both be turn offs. You're assuming all women are the same and they are these perfect mythical greek godesses that are only released to those men that seem deserving. A women is only as good as the first sex you have with her. Keeping her requires a lot more.

This is kind of off topic but

The problem with a lot of single women these days is that they feel like some prince charming will swoop them off their feet and take care of them for eternity because hollywood loves to illustrate this. If more women these days didn't feel so ashamed to ask out a guy every once in a while then there wouldn't be soo many depressed, lonely people from both genders. I'm pretty sure there would also be a decline in social anxiety. Norms and traditions are nothing but baggage that chain people to the ground. They shouldn't exist in modern day society.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

rainynights said:


> A date is two ways. No one is auditioning for anyone. Men and women can both be turn offs. You're assuming all women are the same and they are these perfect mythical greek godesses that are only released to those men that seem deserving. A women is only as good as the first sex you have with her. Keeping her requires a lot more.


That's why I recommend girls wait until 6 months to a year into the relationship to have sex.

The man is interested in the girl and that's why he asked her out. She's not interested in him so he has to impress her on the date so the date is his audition for her to judge him and decide if he's worth dating.


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

Waifu said:


> That's why I recommend girls wait until 6 months to a year into the relationship to have sex.
> 
> The man is interested in the girl and that's why he asked her out. She's not interested in him so he has to impress her on the date so the date is his audition for her to judge him and decide if he's worth dating.


So, it would be better for a man to just drug his date and molest her while she's passed out? Because you're good with that.


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## Cyclonic (Oct 25, 2012)

Why would a woman agree to go out on a date with a man she isn't interested in?


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## inane (Oct 21, 2013)

Waifu said:


> Men on this forum having such a hard time getting dates: are you a gentleman?
> 
> Do you drive
> Do you pay for dates
> ...


This would make me think I have a slave, not a boyfriend.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

Lol @Waifu reading your replies are so interesting. Not that there's anything wrong with them you just seem like the total opposite of any girl I have ever dated xD 
You seem so.. Submissive, like you want to be controlled and coddled.

Girls pay for my food hahahahahaha! xD I do drive though. Never pull out seats lmfao what is this 1950. I never really hold hands. Sex until love? Lol what is love. Sex when she's ready to give it up! Yes I listen because my GF is my Girl-FRIEND so of course I'll listen to my friend  Dress clean and sharp? Definitely clean but I always wear sweatpants and a tank top! No matter what! Holding doors is polite and I'll do it or anyone 

What else should be added?

Are you fun to be around 
Do you make her laugh 
Do you make her feel safe 
Do you make her feel beautiful and secure 
etc etc..

THAT'S what you guys should do ^ not be her personal tampon


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## llodell88 (May 15, 2011)

Madax said:


> Why would a woman agree to go out on a date with a man she isn't interested in?


I would go on a date with a guy I wasn't interested in because I might be interested in him after the date. It's not like I have men throwing themselves at me so I'm not going to be picky about a date...afterwards is different. I don't think women in general know if they're attracted to men as quickly as men are to them...but I might be projecting here so idk.


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Waifu said:


> That's why I recommend girls wait until 6 months to a year into the relationship to have sex.
> 
> The man is interested in the girl and that's why he asked her out. *She's not interested in him* so he has to impress her on the date so the date is his audition for her to judge him and decide if he's worth dating.


:um

So let me get this straight.

You aren't interested in men. 
You aren't PHYSICALLY attracted to them whatsoever. 
YOU just want someone to carry you around and make you feel like a princess.
You want him to buy you things so that you feel special.



Lets keep going with this list. I think i'm starting to understand what kind person you really are.

You want to do NOTHING. You want this fantasy man to

1.Open doors for you wherever you go
2. Drive you to your locations
3. Pull out chairs for you wherever you go
4. Pay for your meals, I'm guessing even spoon feed you too while using a train as a metaphor for the spoon?
5. Kiss you on the hand and call you madame
6. raise your dress before you sit down

ohhhhhh....here it comes.....the icing on the cake........

And FINALLY not have sex until 365 days later.

You must be a very special lady. very special indeed. It's my honor to even be in the same forum as you.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

rainynights said:


> You must be a very special lady. very special indeed. It's my honor to even be in the same forum as you.


Every girl is that special and it saddens me that so many of them don't know their worth and think they have to pay or give up sex.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

Waifu said:


> Every girl is that special and it saddens me that so many of them don't know their worth and think they have to pay or give up sex.


Sex is not something you "give up". 
It's an activity. 
Guys don't care about how pure you are. 
We care about your loyalty and fun you are to be around. 
If you want to be coddled not many guys wanna do that. '

Some guys will treat you like you want to, but don't go thinking that you are superior to other girls haha. You just have different needs.


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

CowGoMoo said:


> Sex is not something you "give up".
> It's an activity.
> * Guys don't care about how pure you are. *
> We care about your loyalty and fun you are to be around.
> ...


Yes they do that's the most important thing they care about and I'm not superior to other girls I said they are valuable too and they just don't realize it and they should start to realize how worth it they are.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Waifu said:


> Yes they do that's the most important thing they care about and I'm not superior to other girls I said they are valuable too and they just don't realize it and they should start to realize how worth it they are.


Oh so you know how men think now as well. You're a goddamn modern miracle.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

Waifu said:


> Yes they do that's the most important thing they care about and I'm not superior to other girls I said they are valuable too and they just don't realize it and they should start to realize how worth it they are.


Trust me we don't as much as you'd think. Well I realize I can't speak for ALL guys but for the most part a lot of us just want you to be loyal. Now if you've ****ed 20 guys then yeah that's something we care about haha. If you've ****ed like 4 or 5 by your age then we really don't care at all


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Waifu said:


> Every girl is that special and it saddens me that so many of them don't know their worth and think they have to pay or give up sex.


No one forces a girl to have sex. If a girl is average in attractiveness and interesting to be around then they will be more respected then a girl that wears short skirts, cleavage but has no brain. What you wear and how you act advertises what kind of person you are.

As for the whole purity thing, as long as a girl doesn't have aids, herpes or HIV and she's loyal. Nothing else matters.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

rainynights said:


> No one forces a girl to give up sex. If a girl is average in attractiveness and interesting to be around then they will be more respected then a girl that wears short skirts, cleavage but has no brain. What you wear and how you act advertises what kind of person you are.


Pretty much this


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

zookeeper said:


> So, it would be better for a man to just drug his date and molest her while she's passed out?


Until the rape charge comes to fruition once she wakes up and remembers what happened the night before.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Madax said:


> Why would a woman agree to go out on a date with a man she isn't interested in?


Immature women do not know what they want in a man. Did you not get that memo?


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## zookeeper (Jun 3, 2009)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> Until the rape charge comes to fruition once she wakes up and remembers what happened the night before.


In normal, rational world? Yes. This is a terrible thing to do.

In waifu world? Have at it...



zookeeper said:


> So, if a woman is unconscious and we're gentle enough to leave her "unharmed and undistressed from the sex", is that consensual enough?
> 
> I mean, if we're unconscious we're nothing more than breathing meat, so same thing, right?





Waifu said:


> Yes. If she's undistressed by it then of course it's not rape. I have a hard time believing she won't be distressed to find out that happened though...


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## Steve123 (Sep 13, 2009)

Bit of a diversion but this reminds of of an odd social experiment I did once where I just held doors for as many random women as possible in a few days to gauge their reactions.

Interesting variety of responses, in one instance I got the most wonderful smile in response and a sort of bashful hanging of the head like she was melting or something (if that makes sense).

On another occasion a woman and I were passing through a series of doors and after I held the first door for her she immediately reciprocated by holding the next for me. tit or tat.

Another time, omg, I held a door for one woman and she just... gave me this look of infernal hatred I had never seen in my life, like I had called her names and threatened to rape her or something. It's probably worth mentioning that this one took place on the campus of my university where a lot of the student body were quite ardently far left. With no shortage of feminists who would find traditional gender roles and the social gestures that go with them to be inherently oppressive, misogynistic, patriarchical etc. etc.

To try and make this ramble _somewhat_ relevant I suppose I could just say I found different people have different expectations and different reactions to what you do...

Personally I always just offer a dowry of three sheep and a bushel of wheat and hope for the best!


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Steve123 said:


> Bit of a diversion but this reminds of of an odd social experiment I did once where I just held doors for as many random women as possible in a few days to gauge their reactions.
> 
> Interesting variety of responses, in one instance I got the most wonderful smile in response and a sort of bashful hanging of the head like she was melting or something (if that makes sense).
> 
> ...


I would have stalked her until she got ready to sit down. You get in front of her, act like a gentlemen, pull the chair out too far back. She falls. Boom quick take your pants off, time to be an actual gentlemen she wants. NUTSACK TO THE FACE.

If you don't get a date from that then your execution was weak.


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## Steve123 (Sep 13, 2009)

rainynights said:


> I would have stalked her until she got ready to sit down. You get in front of her, act like a gentlemen, pull the chair out too far back. She falls. Boom quick take your pants off, time to be an actual gentlemen she wants. NUTSACK TO THE FACE.
> 
> If you don't get a date from that then your execution was weak.


LOL As charming as that sounds, where I come from we have CRRAAZY laws against that


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## rainynights (Aug 23, 2014)

Steve123 said:


> LOL As charming as that sounds, where I come from we have CRRAAZY laws against that


Laws are for people that can't run. And if you get caught..........

:duel

Challenge the cop'pers in a sword fight.


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Waifu said:


> Why should women feel just as obligated to pay when the date is the man's opportunity to audition for her? She shouldn't have to pay for his chance to get with her.


Again, it's the woman's audition as well. Glad to see you ignored my post.



Waifu said:


> That's why I recommend girls wait until 6 months to a year into the relationship to have sex.
> 
> The man is interested in the girl and that's why he asked her out. She's not interested in him so he has to impress her on the date so the date is his audition for her to judge him and decide if he's worth dating.


 It's not your place to recommend to anyone how long they wait to have sex with a new partner.

If a woman isn't interested in a man, she won't say yes to a date. If I ask a woman out and she says yes, that tells me that she is indeed interested in me. That's just common sense.



Waifu said:


> Every girl is that special and it saddens me that so many of them don't know their worth and think they have to pay or give up sex.


 Sex isn't something you "give up". You seem to think it's like a string you hold over a kitten who can't quite reach it. I have news for you... Sex is something that you both partake in. It is pleasurable for both men and women. Yes, women want it as much as men.

I'll tell you right now, I would never date a woman who thinks the way you do. You're not as special as you think you are. You're a person, on the same level as every man out there.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Waifu said:


> The woman shouldn't have to drive to her own date that would be ridiculous.


:no

"lowers dating standards even more"


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> :no
> 
> "lowers dating standards even more"


If you make it too much effort then she's just not going to show up.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

depends on the vibe of the girl... atleast form my own experience really girly girls like the whole gentlemen thing but most girls only really care that you are fun to be around and that you pick up the tab and that you drive


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## PGVan (May 22, 2004)

Waifu said:


> If you make it too much effort then she's just not going to show up.


A woman driving herself to a date is too much effort? All the women I've had first dates with would roll their eyes at that notion.


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> Immature women do not know what they want in a man. Did you not get that memo?


They're all immature then xD


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## CowGoMoo (Apr 14, 2013)

PGVan said:


> Sex isn't something you "give up". You seem to think it's like a string you hold over a kitten who can't quite reach it. I have news for you... Sex is something that you both partake in. It is pleasurable for both men and women. Yes, women want it as much as men.
> 
> I'll tell you right now, I would never date a woman who thinks the way you do. You're not as special as you think you are. You're a person, on the same level as every man out there.


Lol exactly man I wanna see a pic of @Waifu xD


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Waifu said:


> If you make it too much effort then she's just not going to show up.


Seeing as I cannot drive due to vision issues from my birth, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard a woman tell me. Then again, I have heard my own mother tell me that I cannot be choosy and can only take what I can get. She also probably wants grandkids from me too.

But can you blame me for being terrified of women based on statements like yours? No. I have lost so much of my libido that I will probably become asexual if I never get over my fear of women by 30 or so.

Or a masochist, seeing as I have been whacking myself in the head with my fist or biting my finger until it bleeds since I was 2. I still do it on occasion even at my age due to the fact that I do indeed feel a sense of genuine relief from my extreme loneliness. I find that if I feel moderate physical pain, it tends to dull whatever emotional pain I am feeling in the moment.

Enough about me. Lets continue this thread, shall we?


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## Alas Babylon (Aug 28, 2012)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> Seeing as I cannot drive due to vision issues from my birth, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard a woman tell me. Then again, I have heard my own mother tell me that I cannot be choosy and can only take what I can get. She also probably wants grandkids from me too.
> 
> But can you blame me for being terrified of women based on statements like yours? No. I have lost so much of my libido that I will probably become asexual if I never get over my fear of women by 30 or so.
> 
> ...


Man, take pretty much anything Waifu has said with a grain of salt.

You know those guys who act like they are entitled to female attention? The ones who can't have a friendly encounter with a decently hygienic girl without pining for her and then complaining about the friendzone?

Basically, those guys who see women as objects to romanticise, and not just ordinary people.

People who look at men like Waifu does, are the female equivalent. Men do not exist to adhere to someone's schoolgirl rom-com fantasies.

People like that aren't entitled to anything from men, nor do they hold all the power in a dating or romantic situation, nor are they the ones who 'choose' whether the relationship goes ahead. A relationship is a two way street, not an audition for American Idol and a guy isn't a bike or a horse, he's a goddam person with his own desires and ideas.

Anyone who has been in a serious relationship can tell you that.


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Alas Babylon said:


> Man, take pretty much anything Waifu has said with a grain of salt.


Sure. I shall try to. You can never tell what peoples emotions are on the Internet. So it is hard to tell if she is joking or not.


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## Perkins (Dec 14, 2010)

Yes, I am gentlemanly.


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## Alone75 (Jul 29, 2013)

What a bunch of BS, I can fit the criteria of being a gentleman, it doesn't matter if you still act off and have SA. Plus being poor with no job, or a crap dead end one doesn't exactly help either!

"Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car"  that one made me lol.


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## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

This crap again..... It's like the movie groundhog day.....


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Waifu said:


> If you make it too much effort then she's just not going to show up.


I don't think you should go on dates with guys you're so unenthusiastic about that you can't be bothered making your way there...



TobeyJuarez said:


> depends on the vibe of the girl... atleast form my own experience really girly girls like the whole gentlemen thing but most girls only really care that you are fun to be around and that you pick up the tab and that you drive


What's the big deal with driving? Is this just an American thing, or an I've-been-mostly-socially-isolated-since-uni-when-pretty-much-no-one-drove-anyway-thing?



purechaos said:


> This crap again..... It's like the movie groundhog day.....


:lol


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## karenw (Aug 20, 2012)

AceP said:


> What a bunch of BS, I can fit the criteria of being a gentleman, it doesn't matter if you still act off and have SA. Plus being poor with no job, or a crap dead end one doesn't exactly help either!
> 
> "Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car"  that one made me lol.


Balancing out of the car made me laugh, she's obv made of wood or a mannequin, lobbed over the shoulder she goes.


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## blue2 (May 20, 2013)

I would challenge a ruffian to game of fisticuffs for insulting a ladies honour.....:duel


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## Cenarius (Aug 2, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> What's the big deal with driving? Is this just an American thing, or an I've-been-mostly-socially-isolated-since-uni-when-pretty-much-no-one-drove-anyway-thing?


If the girl drives then she can't drink, and if she can't drink, the guy is going to seem a lot less charming and funny.

Or the more cynical explanation, by being the one to drive she feels dependent on you.


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

Cenarius said:


> If the girl drives then she can't drink, and if she can't drink, the guy is going to seem a lot less charming and funny.
> 
> Or the more cynical explanation, *by being the one to drive she feels dependent on you.*


Why would most women want that?

I don't think that's it. I mean I see people bring up the must be able to drive thing a lot on this forum, not just because of dating. Also what if the guy wants to drink?

I don't know what magic elixir you think alcohol is lol but unless you're getting pretty drunk/tipsy (which is probably not something you want to do on a first date,) it's not going to do much of anything... At least in my opinion.


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## Cenarius (Aug 2, 2014)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Why would most women want that?
> 
> I don't think that's it. I mean I see people bring up the must be able to drive thing a lot on this forum, not just because of dating. Also what if the guy wants to drink? I don't know what magic elixir you think alcohol is lol but unless you're getting pretty drunk/tipsy (which is probably not something you want to do on a first date,) it's not going to do much of anything... At least in my opinion.


Women want to be taken care of by the guy, he has to be her provider.

The guy can't drink, he needs his wits to talk her into bed.

And yeah, driving is a big deal outside of dating too. If you can drive, you can do things. Public transportation is basically nonexistent in most of the USA so without a car you are home and that's it. If you live in a city then you don't have to, but otherwise you need a car.


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## TobeyJuarez (May 16, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I don't think you should go on dates with guys you're so unenthusiastic about that you can't be bothered making your way there...
> 
> What's the big deal with driving? Is this just an American thing, or an I've-been-mostly-socially-isolated-since-uni-when-pretty-much-no-one-drove-anyway-thing?
> 
> :lol


its probably an American thing, cause isn't the gas over there super expensive? and don't you pay some really expensive tax in the UK to own and drive a car?


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## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Cenarius said:


> The guy can't drink, he needs his wits to talk her into bed.


What if you have no wit?


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

iAmCodeMonkey said:


> What if you have no wit?


That's when the handkerchief and chloroform come in.


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## purechaos (Dec 18, 2013)

nubly said:


> That's when the handkerchief and chloroform come in.


Smh.... Lol


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## Soilwork (May 14, 2012)

Sexism that benefits men = the Patriarchy
Sexism that benefits women = Being a Gentleman


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

TobeyJuarez said:


> its probably an American thing, cause isn't the gas over there super expensive? and don't you pay some really expensive tax in the UK to own and drive a car?


For the Brits, petrol in the U.S. is currently ~ 52 pence per litre, taxes included.

In most American cities, including some big ones in the U.S. South, buses only come once an hour, even on weekdays, and only cover a small portion of the city.


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## knightofdespair (May 20, 2014)

Soilwork said:


> Sexism that benefits men = the Patriarchy
> Sexism that benefits women = Being a Gentleman


If the woman is hot enough.. maybe.. But really she better be damn hot to bother going through all that crap.


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Lol I probably fail at most of that stuff on the list, but for the sake of idealism and goodwill, "While I'm not always a gentleman, when I am, it's manly in the most gentle of ways." Clearly a need of a hat tip and hair flip, and cape flourish, possibly with a cane :b Think we all need some lessons from this guy lmao:






"Alien abductors have asked him, to probe them."

"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt."

"See those nuts? They're there to make us thirsty. While I don't like being coerced, I will make an exception." Haha xD


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## Waifu (Jul 21, 2014)

Was this helpful to anyone?


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## RandomGentleman (Aug 4, 2014)

Well that's what my name says.


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## aaaa1111bbbb2222cccc3333 (May 10, 2015)

Soilwork said:


> Sexism that benefits men = the Patriarchy
> Sexism that benefits women = Being a Gentleman


Lol



Waifu said:


> Was this helpful to anyone?


No


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## a degree of freedom (Sep 28, 2011)

Do you drive (yes)
Do you pay for dates (yes, might depend on the person after the first one)
Do you pull out the seat and sit last (.... what?)
Do you hold women's hands to help her balance or get out of a car (no)
Do you hold off on sex until you're in love (I would want a future together, but I wouldn't ask myself to be committed at that point, so that may or may not qualify depending on how you count)
Do you listen honestly and interestedly (yes)
Do you dress clean and sharp (clean and nice)
Do you hold doors (when I can)

But overall, I'm probably not a gentleman because I tend to think a woman can get in and out of a car by herself and that it's silly to act differently. It depends on the person though, if I think they would appreciate that sort of thing or if they're more the independent type.


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## identificationunknown (Jan 23, 2014)

I do all of that except..

Do you hold off on sex until you're in love

It is a physiological need..


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Lol this thread clearly needs:


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## Kevin001 (Jan 2, 2015)

I try to be a gentlemen :stu.


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