# Avoidant personality disorder



## Halfie (Dec 29, 2007)

Does anybody else have avoidant personality disorder? I do. It's severe enough that my psychiatrist recommended putting me in a day hospital program for a couple weeks. (By the way, has anybody been to a day hospital? Did it help?) He also told me that my personality disorder is the reason why I'm still depressed despite all the meds I've been taking for almost two years now. There's no pill to fix a personality disorder. Has anybody had APD and is now cured? Or any personality disorder? It seems like a personality disorder would be much harder to treat than a simple chemical imbalance.


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## LostinReverie (Mar 18, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that I do, although not so severe. I've never been to a psychiatrist because I avoid people at all costs.


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## Classified (Dec 7, 2004)

It's been two years and they are just now figuring it out?

While the meds really won't change you into something you aren't. The meds might help you not feel as much anxiety if you weren't avoidant and talked to someone.

What would be accomplished by going to this day hospital program? Is it just forced interactions? I don't know what the best treatment for you at your stage would be, but I bet there would be a few more options to try first.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

i have never been diagnosed but the description fits me perfectly. i am getting help for my SA.. but AvP seems so much more complex to treat. i've never brought it up with my doctor.


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## nightmahr (Jan 2, 2008)

Same here I just read about it and it seems like I have that problem worse than the general social anxiety (and of course I have a bit of every related 'disorder' as well). I sympathize with what LostinReverie says about seeing someone for your problems. I see everyone on this site mentioning their therapists and psychiatrists and wonder how they can possibly do that if they have such problems with people. So I guess that's where the avoidance comes in. I have to get better with this stuff. A month ago I would have called everything depression and left it at that.


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## BeachGaBulldog (Feb 13, 2007)

I have never been told that I have APD, but I know that I have it. I avoid people as much as possible. Besides this and SA, I have OCD and ADD.


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## coldmorning (Jul 4, 2007)

I'm currently reading Kantor's book on avoidant personality disorder. I believe I have many of the symptoms.


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## endtroducing (Jan 6, 2008)

I think my avoidant personality is much stronger than my social anxiety. I haven't seen a psychiatrist for either.


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## sab_07 (Oct 15, 2007)

^ Same for me. I didn't really think I had AvPD until I started going to my therapist..everything became really clear to me, how my avoiding behavior and mindset is so programmed into my brain. It just makes it so much harder to get better.


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## Pole Pig (Oct 30, 2007)

APD and SAD are two labels for the same thing. APD can best be described as social anxiety that has gone untreated and has severely impacted your behavioral habits and major life decisions, making treatment more difficult.

Take these diagnoses with a grain of salt. We have a need for labels, and psychiatrists are happy to provide them for us, but that doesn't make them any less arbitrary. As far as you're concerned, it doesn't matter if you have SAD or APD -- the treatment remains the same. Knowing that you have the "less treatable" APD instead of SAD can become a self-fulfilling prophesy.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Pole Pig said:


> it doesn't matter if you have SAD or APD -- the treatment remains the same.


 :ditto


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## Mc Borg (Jan 4, 2008)

LostInReverie said:


> I'm pretty sure that I do, although not so severe. I've never been to a psychiatrist because I avoid people at all costs.


 :ditto


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## sakura01 (Jan 19, 2008)

I think I may have it as well since sometimes I'd rather feel safer being alone than suffer from the anguish of being uncomfortable with someone else. I also notice that I try to avoid people by acting like I'm so busy or engrossed with the task at hand that I don't have time to talk to them. I really want to improve but it's hard to tackle with weak social skills.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

APD is just another name for severe social anxiety. Just like social anxiety is just another name for social phobia.

Every month or two this issue comes up and after years of discussion I've yet to see how APD differs from SA, other than APD is a more specific name since it signifies severe SA, while merely saying SA doesn't tell you how severe it is.

I perfectly match the definition of APD, but my official diagnosis is: "Social phobia, severe, with generalized anxiety. DSM 300.23"


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## Halfie (Dec 29, 2007)

UltraShy said:


> APD is just another name for severe social anxiety. Just like social anxiety is just another name for social phobia.
> 
> Every month or two this issue comes up and after years of discussion I've yet to see how APD differs from SA, other than APD is a more specific name since it signifies severe SA, while merely saying SA doesn't tell you how severe it is.
> 
> I perfectly match the definition of APD, but my official diagnosis is: "Social phobia, severe, with generalized anxiety. DSM 300.23"


I disagree, actually. I think you're right about "garden variety" social anxiety being more like a phobia, where in that person's case, it's the _social situation_ that's inherently frightening.

With me, on the other hand, it's all about the fear of rejection. For me, the prospect of being less than 100% liked after any encounter feels like a fate worse than death. I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.

I think the biggest difference between me and somebody with classic SA, is that somebody with classic SA is too preoccupied with the terrifying feelings they're going through to really care in that precise moment whether the other person likes them or not. If they try to recall what happened later, they probably wouldn't remember anything about how the other person was reacting at the time. But for me, it's ALL about the other person. I scrutinize them like a hawk, reading way too deep into every little gesture, or flick of the eyebrow, looking for anything that can be interpreted as a sign of rejection. I can often recall in searing detail the expressions on everyone else's faces, their body language, what they said, the tone in which they said it, etc. I couldn't care less how _I _feel in that moment. The person I'm talking to might be acting like a complete jerk, but I'm usually too busy bending over backwards to be as pleasant as possible and saying whatever I think they want to hear for it to even occur to me to take offense. "I'm" only relevant to the extent that I can shape the other person's reactions to me by acting a certain way, or saying things they want to hear. My feelings don't count.

So the reason I'm afraid of social situations isn't because I find social situations inherently frightening, it's because the stakes are so high because I feel like I'm defending my whole self-worth every time. When the stakes are that high, of course you're going to get nervous. And oftentimes rather than put myself through such a stressful ordeal, it's simply easier to avoid social contact altogether. But for somebody with "classic" SA, I don't think there's nearly this much calculation involved. They just find social situations inherently terrifying, like people afraid of spiders are inherently afraid of spiders. They aren't afraid because they've made some emotional cost/benefit calculation, it's simply a reflexive response. I don't find all social situations terrifying--for example, it makes a big difference if I'm in group therapy with other people with similar issues, because we all come in with vulnerabilities, so there's very little risk of being judged or condemned. I feel completely at ease in that environment. But people with classic SA just wouldn't feel comfortable around ANY strangers, even if those strangers were other people with SA themselves. Because, again, it's the social aspect that terrifies them, not the fear of rejection/judgment aspect.

So yeah. I think APD is a mix of factors, mainly an intense, abnormal need to be liked, and an extremely low self-esteem and sense of self-worth, which makes me deeply insecure and constantly suspicious that other people don't like me--or maybe they like me now, but if they only got to know "the real me" they would have no choice but to recoil in disgust. So, I'm hypersensitive to rejection, AND I'm inclined to see signs of rejection everywhere because when people do like me, I literally can't believe it. That's a killer combo.


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## Iron Butterfly (Nov 13, 2007)

I definitely do.


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## nightmahr (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I agree, Halfie. Your post helped a bit, thanks.


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## LarryM (Jan 15, 2008)

I don't know or to be honest care what its called, but my inability to deal with people judging me (real or otherwize) has gotten so bad that I haven't been able to work. I am also about to start a 3 week day program. I don't know if it will help but I need to do something. Good luck


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## User57854 (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm thinking this may be my primary disorder.

I've literally been :hide from people for years now - relatives, mostly. It's just easier for me to avoid situations where I know uncomfortable life-questions are sure to be asked (life?).

I doubt I'll ever get diagnosed with AvPD because I'm so used to keeping how I feel bottled up. I can't imagine myself ever having to explain to someone what's 'wrong' with me.


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## User (Mar 20, 2004)

Wow. What an excellent post, *Halfie*. That sheds a lot of light on the distinction between SA and APD. It's a subtle distinction, but it's there.

To some extent, I agree with *Pole Pig*'s post. In my psychotherapy, I don't want to be seen as a social phobic, manic-depressive or any of the other diagnoses that fit my problems. I want to be seen and treated as an individual. Labels serve their purpose, mainly regarding pharmacotherapy. However, I've found that the underlying problems are so complex and unique that labels quickly become meaningless.


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## there.is.no.they (Jun 5, 2008)

Halfie said:


> ... I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.


 :ditto

Do you compare yourself to other people a lot that's why you feel inept? I can't help but keep doing that, eventhough I remind myself of the cliche on not comparing yourself to others. Most of the time I end up feeling inferior in everything.

I just started reading/researching more about AvPD this morning, and most of the symptoms fit me. My psych has mentioned to me before about the possibility of me having AvPD, but I wasn't officially diagnosed yet. It's just with SA and bipolar. I'm gonna have to ask her on my next session if I really have it.

I really hate the feeling of being inadequate because even here online, it hinders me from having friends and expressing and being myself. I've been a li'l depressed these past few days because I have been avoiding contact with my online friends. It made me upset however because I feel guilty neglecting them. Aside from the other worries I'm having right now, I think it's due to my insecurities, that I feel I am not deserving and I'm no good for them (or to anyone else). If I haven't received a reply to a message or comment I've posted for friends, it's a sign that I have done/said something inappropriate. Whenever we talk/chat I am preoccupied with the thought that they're thinking less of me because of a possible bad grammar, foot in mouth remarks, etc. that's why I fail to enjoy the interaction. Well I do enjoy it, but not as much as I think I should be. That's why I tend to be a perfectionist and it makes stuff even more complicated.

I know that they're not the ones to judge, but I just can't remove the thought that I might say/have said something wrong. They may be thinking that I'm aloof because I keep a lot to myself and don't tell them much when they ask how I am. I'm reluctant to share my feelings because I might be too negative and may ruin their day. They have SA as well, but I dunno if I should tell why it's not easy for me to converse with them because I wouldn't want to make them feel bad. Should I? (I mean finally tell it to them) :stu

Replies would be greatly appreciated.
:thanks


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## nobodyknowz211 (Nov 26, 2008)

Halfie thats exactly how i am. i was diagnosed with AVPD a few years ago. I study people too. Way too much. in a convo i worry about what they are thinkin of me, the tone of there voice, any lil tiny comment that i dont know how to take, body language, everything, AND at the same time then i worry that they are noticing that i'm too busy bein preoccupied with all of that to actually HAVE a convo with them and then i start worryin about MY body language and tone of voice. I am SOOO sensitive to critism. if something someone says to me is not 100% positive i fall apart. its ridiculous but i cant help it so i avoid people.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

I haven't had time to read all these posts, but in my view, the whole term 'personality disorder' is derogatory. Who is to decide whose personality is normal and whose isn't? AvP IS like severe social phobia - many people with social phobia fear rejection - feel inadequate - etc etc. I am not sure how psychiatrists think that labelling someone's entire personality as being 'disordered' is going to help a patient with their self esteem. Most people i know who fit the Avp criteria are those who are highly sensitive - who have been rejected at some point in the lives by either peers or family - and are introverted and thoughtful - now how can these people be labelled as having a personality that is disordered? - i mean - having such intense social phobia is a problem and needs to be treated - but in my view - labelling someone with a personality disorder somehow suggests that their whole personality is inadequate and flawed. 

Sorry - i know that some of you will really disagree with me - and what i say is a bit controversial - but i got a dx of AvP several years ago and the label caused me far more damage than good. I didn't know i was even labelled with it until i looked in my medical records - they gave me the label but then offered me no therapy - no support whatsoever from anyone - now WHY WHY would someone want to label someone else in these circumstances? It felt more like a punishment. Yes - i am truly sensitive and can be very shy at times - but all my closest friends and family would say that i am adventurous, warm, spontaneous, clever, fun, interesting etc etc - and a few days ago, someone at work said that i came across as so confident and outgoing that they could never imagine me being shy (we were talking about shyness in people in general). People are so complex - they can change - to diagnose someone's whole personality is just crap.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

And just one more comment - i am training to be a psych nurse - and most psych nurses unfortunately don't know the difference between avoidant personality disorder and borderline personality disorder (or any of the other PDs) - they often simply talk about 'personality disorder' and do not recognise that there are different types. Once you have that label in your records - it can really work against you in the future. I'm really sorry if this post isn't helpful, but it's something i feel strongly about - and i have been hurt far more by psychiatrists than helped. 
I hope this post doesn't offend the person who started the thread - remember, i also got the same diagnosis and i am just being honest. I am quite sure that you are not alone and that many many people here are like you in many ways. I hope the course you start helps you deal with your feelings of inadequacy etc - because i bet that you are a sensitive and intelligent and kind person (most people i know who are shy are smart and sensitive).


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## nightwalker (Nov 20, 2008)

I used to.


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## flapjacker (Nov 30, 2008)

I've yet to see a therapist, but I've taken a personality disorder test online a few times. I always score high in avoidant personality disorder.


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## BrokenDreams (Nov 22, 2008)

I fit at least 5 of the 6 criteria for APD (AvPD) but the following represents the prevailing opinions on APD vs. SAD

Research has found few differences between the kinds of symptoms that people with SAD and APD have. Because of the similarities between SAD and APD, people are often diagnosed as having both disorders. Like SAD, the central fear of people with APD is rejection, ridicule and humiliation by others. However, people with APD tend to have a broader range of symptoms, and the symptoms tend to be more severe.

APD is treated in much the same way as social anxiety disorder. Cognitive-behavioral therapy, social skills training, group therapy, and medication have all been shown to have some impact on the disorder.
It doesn't matter if they are the same or not, or which one you have, you still need to do the same things if you want to fix it.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

AvP is not a disorder - it's not a case of having it or not having it - it's not an illness - YOU can decide whether or not you fit the criteria - you know yourself best - so really you don't need a psychiatrist to tell you what your personality is like. A LOT of psychiatrists don't find it particularly helpful to use personality disorders as diagnostic labels - and i don't believe people should label themselves as having a disordered personality either.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Schema therapy would be nice to have in treating a personality disorder or social anxiety to those who need more than medication and cbt. too bad yeah yeah yeah isnt here anymore.


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## rb1088 (Jan 24, 2008)

I thought I did but my doctor says no. I still think I have it though because I have been on medication and it did not help. I have gone to a day hospital and it did work. They gave me alot of helpful information, and they were also very nice people. I go to a social worker every two weeks now and that seems to help also (alot better then visiting my doctor). In my opinion you should try the day hospital.


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## anabolic2894 (Feb 6, 2008)

Halfie said:


> I disagree, actually. I think you're right about "garden variety" social anxiety being more like a phobia, where in that person's case, it's the _social situation_ that's inherently frightening.
> 
> With me, on the other hand, it's all about the fear of rejection. For me, the prospect of being less than 100% liked after any encounter feels like a fate worse than death. I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.
> 
> ...


OMG..... Your me. In every interaction with people it's the same thing. And the more I like someone the harder it is to interact with them because the fear that they will realize who I really am is terrifying. I notice that I appease jerks and morons because all I'm doing is scanning for their approval. The slightest gesture can crush my emotions whether its a smile that didn't last long enough to be real or if their eyes wonder off, the tone of their voice seems sarcastic or condescending. It's very hard to trust people and when they do like me I can't see it either and in turn I reject everyone around me because I felt rejected first.


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## Ghizwiz (Sep 30, 2008)

Halfie said:


> With me, on the other hand, it's all about the fear of rejection. For me, the prospect of being less than 100% liked after any encounter feels like a fate worse than death. I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.


Wow. That is a powerful post for me. It hit me because I remember being there. And, don't know if it helps at all, but you made me feel a little better about myself tonight. Cuz somehow, I got past that. And I remember how hard that was. You helped me realize, I have made a lot of progress (okay, it took me until my 40's to be able to say this, but still).

Anyway, thanks for posting that. I don't really have any help, as I still have my challenges (sigh). But I did get past that point you describe, and I do remember, keenly, how much it hurt to be there.

Hugs,
Ghizwiz


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## quietgirl2222 (Dec 7, 2008)

I have always been afraid of rejection, having someone yell or raise their voice at me, and what others thought of me. this fear has caused me to not approach anybody without being certain I could trust them. It also led to me becoming very paranoid, I always think people are talking about me or thinking I am something that I'm not. For example, when watching a movie about drugs in class, I thought people were thinking I did drugs because the girl in the movie had no friends like me, so I decided to make a funny face and stick my tongue out everytime the people were doing drugs just to make sure people knew I didn't do drugs.

I also made up a fantasy life in which I am popular, outgoing, and pretty. This has lasted for 4 years and I don't think it is normal.

I know I have social phobia, but I think I also have APD. Is that possible?


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

Quiet girl - you're 15 years old! So many people at your age have problems with confidence. It doesn't mean that you have a personality disorder. However, therapy could probably help you. I'm so sorry you don't have any friends - a lot of people go through times in life when they don't have friends and feel alone. Maybe with time you're confidence will really grow and you might meet people who you can relate to and who appreciate and value you. Living in an imaginary world isn't 'abnormal' either - it's a coping strategy and means that you have a vivid imagination.


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## Mr Deuce (Nov 14, 2008)

I have almost all the symptons of APD. :b


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## Noirette (Sep 6, 2008)

I have this. Along with selective mutism and dysthemia. I feel like such a freak sometimes. I can't speak for sh*t when I'm around a lot of people or out in public. I feel like there's a frog in my throat and I can't get my words to come out. Which results in awkward moments when someone talks to me in a social setting. With dysthemia, my brain is foggy and being around people all day at school makes to mentally tired. So tired, I can't do anything else socially for the rest of the day, which is making it hard for me to get a job. I don't think I could handle it all at once.

With avoidant personality disorder, I can't focus on a conversation, and when I try to talk to someone (if I'm able to), the words come out all quiet and jumbled. I'm very introverted and shy away from any kind of group gathering, and if I have to go, I worry about it before, during, and even after the event. 

One time, I was at a church gathering with my father, and we were early so there weren't many people at the time. I was sitting at a table by myself, and I kept worrying about how many people are going to be coming, what they're going to say to me, and it all started making me feel overwhelmed. My palms were getting sweaty, I felt hot, and I started to get nauseous. I asked my dad to take me home, but he said he wouldn't because we already drove so far to get there, and this was our first time at this congregation party and my dad wanted to stay. So I went back to my seat and started crying my eyes out. Everyone was staring at me and giving me weird looks. I felt like such an idiot, so I got up and walked to the bathroom. My dad's gf saw me, and she talked to me and my dad, and convinced him to take me home. I'm so glad she did, because I was on the verge of having a panic attack. I hate being like this, so afraid of social situations, it makes me literally ill.

Sorry for ranting, I just needed to get this out. Since I obviously have no one else to tell this to.


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## silvergyrl (Nov 4, 2008)

These posts have really opened my eyes up to the possibility that I may not have SAD but rather AvPD. I've always been a shy person but I've never felt that I've had anxiety in more than a few certain social situations. 

I sometimes avoid certain people and certain things at all costs. It's not every situation but there usually is a trigger for me, like say I accidently slept in for class one day and missed handing in an assignment. The next class I would feel completely embarrassed about not handing in the assignment so I will avoid it until I can work up enough courage to finally attend. I mean, when I do have to speak to someone I've never met before, I get a dry mouth and blotchiness on my neck but I feel fine after the initial contact. I always feel fine after I jump over the initial barrier, such as stepping into the classroom.

I think whatever social anxiety I do have stems from my avoidance.


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## cclivesinherhead (Dec 14, 2008)

I absolutely have APD. I have every single symptom of it. If you have APD, do you definitely have SA? Or can you have APD without having SA? I assume I have both, but I haven't been diagnosed or seen doctors about it.


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## Grim619 (Dec 12, 2008)

I defenitly have APD. I think it stemmed from having SA for soo long. They are not the same but very similar... This is my own personal take on it- If you have extreme SA you become avoidant, if you have extreme APD you become aware of it and develop anxiety...I think? Or something to that effect. I could be totally wrong


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## fauxhawk (Oct 26, 2008)

I wonder if this disorderly has been correctly classified because it seems like so many people can only partially relate to the criteria.


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## njodis (Nov 8, 2006)

I fit most of the DSM-IV criteria for both Avoidant Personality Disorder and SA. There's so much overlap between the two of them, though, that I don't think it really makes much of a difference.

To me, AvPD basically looks like "social anxiety disorder, with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism."

That would pretty much be me.


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## 2Talkative (Nov 1, 2007)

njodis said:


> social anxiety disorder, with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism


That would be me as well. BTW I've avoided everything and now there really isn't much to avoid anymore .


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## fauxhawk (Oct 26, 2008)

> To me, AvPD basically looks like "social anxiety disorder, with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism."


That's an interesting way of putting it. Social anxiety with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism.


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## kaye (Oct 14, 2008)

That's the thing, avoiding doesn't make the fear go away. The fear follows you, you become afraid again. The only way to dissipate the fear is to face it, to challenge yourself, in some small way, bit by bit. Running away/avoiding does not make the fear go away. As far as I know. You just get anxious about something else.

The problem is what the mind is doing. The way the mind is interpreting things. That's why CBT is helpful, bc it works with how the mind interprets.

Some of y'all are just so darn young. Adolescence is difficult, so don't rush to label yourself and decide you've got unsolvable problems. Labels are tools to communicate, but each person is different. And sticking yourself to a label isn't a helpful thing. You put yourself in that position and then start viewing yourself a certain way, "weak, sicko," (which admittedly I've been doing a bit to myself), and down goes the self-esteem. NOT helpful. So avoid buying into these rigid identities the psychiatric profession has created.

I've written on here before two tools that have helped me with my social anxiety and panic are surrender and self-love. This means accepting your wicked slimeball dork-*** self (hope they don't edit that) right in that moment, right when you're panicked, right when you're scared. Accept it, let it flow through you, breathe, surrender to life and what is.

And also really finding a way to value yourself. Self-esteem is basic to success and happiness in life for everyone. This bears repeating : Self-esteem is basic to success and happiness in life for everyone. Learn to like yourself. Try and even "fake it 'til you make it." It's essential.

And once again I'm going to mention this issue of being HSP "Highly sensitive Person," here's a website where you can find out more: www.hsperson.com. Being overly sensitive to other peoples' feelings, the environment including sounds, lights, and lots of activity, is normal for HSP's. Studies have found about 20% of the general population is HSP. So, this means that the societies we live in are populated mostly by the other 80%. So things aren't set up to fit the comforts of HSP's. It's helpful to learn about this and maybe get beyond feeling "sick" because we have social anxiety?

Wishing everyone well.


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## fauxhawk (Oct 26, 2008)

^that's an interesting perspective. I'd have to agree that modern Psychology might not have quite a handle on everything. After all look at it's history. It's been pretty off base in the past. Look at Sigmund Freud the father of Psychology and his Oedipus complex theory. It's hard to separate our modern understanding of the world from the hindsight that we'll gain in the future. In some ways modern Psychology really irritates me. Many in the profession seem to be a little bit overly confident in Psychology's worldly presumptions. Labeling does bring us confidence, but we could stand to remember that it's a mad, mad world and that it will forever be beyond our understanding.


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

I have read the symptoms of AVPD and all of them fit me. I think that I am much more avoidant than anything else.


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## Cypress (Dec 17, 2008)

njodis said:


> To me, AvPD basically looks like "social anxiety disorder, with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism.".


I'm sure some people do have APD, but it looks like I have what you have described. If I avoid something, I remove the possibility of having SA when out.


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## RedTulip (Nov 9, 2004)

I've never been diagnosed but I do avoid things. I also have anticipatory anxiety that's for sure. I anticipate the worse most of the time.


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## yakubu (Nov 4, 2008)

Halfie said:


> Does anybody else have avoidant personality disorder? I do. It's severe enough that my psychiatrist recommended putting me in a day hospital program for a couple weeks. (By the way, has anybody been to a day hospital? Did it help?) He also told me that my personality disorder is the reason why I'm still depressed despite all the meds I've been taking for almost two years now. There's no pill to fix a personality disorder. Has anybody had APD and is now cured? Or any personality disorder? It seems like a personality disorder would be much harder to treat than a simple chemical imbalance.


i have avpd and im making great progress with it. you treat it exactly the same way you treat social phobia cos they are both the same thing. the only difference is that avpd is more extreme than sa. there's certainly no need to go to day hospital, wot good is that going to do you ? you havent got schizophrenia or anything. youve just cos i very perverse and extreme form of social anxiety


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## kintrovert (Oct 28, 2005)

A former psychiatrist of mine was pushing a day program on me - she did it on several occassions. I was just too unmotivated of a mess to even consider it - too unmotivated (not to mention too avoidant) to be around the people and to do the work.

I've forgotton all of the features of avoidant personality disorder - but I'm pretty sure my symptoms are severe enough that I can easily be diagnosed with this (if I haven't been already). On the other hand - I believe AvPD includes an actual desire to be around people, but just overwhelming anxiety, right? Well - these days, I lack the desire to be around people 98% of the time (but a good question to ask myself is - is this lack of desire due to the anxiety, or is it more of a pure lack of desire? Or is the anxiety due to the lack of desire?). My old computer is located in my house's basement - and I would be content to be down there for many hours at a time - alone....just me and the computer. Now that my computer has conked out on me and I'm forced to use the new family laptop (my computer stopped working almost as soon as my dad bought this laptop - go figure) that is located in the kitchen - I often get anxious whenever someone enters the kitchen, and I wish for them to go away. I cherish a lot of personal space, and constant "alone time".

Right now, I'm in my comfort-zone: it's 5:20 a.m. - I'm in the kitchen alone - and everyone is back in their bedrooms. I have peace and quiet - and I'm in my own world. I'm just a highly-avoidant, highly-introverted person.


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## KC-Blu-Eyez (May 30, 2008)

I think I have this too.


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## Halcyon Daze (Dec 22, 2008)

njodis said:


> To me, AvPD basically looks like "social anxiety disorder, with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism."





Cypress said:


> I'm sure some people do have APD, but it looks like I have what you have described. If I avoid something, I remove the possibility of having SA when out.


I use avoidance as my primary coping method too. It works a little too well.


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## Coyote (Dec 27, 2008)

I sort of feel like echoing what a lot of people have said. Actually I find it a little surprising that so many people seem to identify with what halvie wrote. The whole carefully anaylyzing other people's reactions thing. I do that like crazy. I think that I feel, on some level, that if I can identiy how i might be annoying people, that I can somehow self correct it. Or maybe that if I am, then itll give me an excuse to get the heck out of dodge. But that's silly.

I really am starting to think that the only way out is through. You just have to put yourself into difficult situations, really, situations just beyond your normal capacity. too much and it can hurt you. I forced myself to endure a job dealing with customers for a few months even though it was excruciatingly difficult. Everytime I got yelled at for minor things that everyone gets yelled at for, i felt like someone was cutting off my arm. I found out later that i was actually scratching grooves into my face without realizing it.

Heh, so yeah. I think it's a balance and you have to pull yourself back from avoiding difficult situations nice and easy.

I actually have a small New Years party to go to on Wednesday that i'm trying not to obsess about. It'll be the second time around this group of people, and the first time was torture. I kept fantasizing about jumping out their window. Lol.

I almost got pushed into a "go away somewhere" type situation as well. So I am curious about what other people think about that.


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## screwjack (Dec 19, 2008)

Wow thanks for these posts, I always thought that SA didn't exactly fit my diagnosis though it is there it's not as big as my avoidant personality. I didn't even know what it was called, i've been trying to describe it here in the forums but couldn't find the right words. 

Course it dosen't really change anything but it's nice to be aware of it. I fit all the criteria to a T every single one. I wonder how my treatment would have gone if my therapists had actually diagnosed me right. 

It definately comes from childhood and a fear of rejections from your peers and parents: I'm even more pissed at my family now :mum I am 100% sure they are the cause of my mental illness now.


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## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

LostInReverie said:


> I'm pretty sure that I do, although not so severe. I've never been to a psychiatrist because I avoid people at all costs.


:ditto


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## nightwalker (Nov 20, 2008)

umm i think APD is a result of Social anxiety.. i mean. we avoid people because we're afraid of them, right? I think it's just when your anxiety is very extreme. I used to have this problem too.


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## Jinnix (Jul 6, 2006)

"characterized by a pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation and avoidance of social interaction"

I never heard of this until now, but it describes me more perfectly than SA ever did. I knew that I couldn't stand certain social situations but SA never described the reason behind it. After discovering this I'm not sure I have SA, I just show certain symptoms of it because of APD.

As someone else mentioned, I also scrutinize every detail of the other person and recall the social encounter long long after it occurred and cringe.


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## Lightspeed (Dec 31, 2008)

Wow. This is a very insightful post, Halfie. Great job.


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## Spectator31 (Jan 25, 2009)

I have it too. I have all of its symptoms. Now I'm confused. Is my SA really an AvP disorder?


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## sweet_tiff4prez (Oct 11, 2008)

i most likely have apd than sa..though both are similiar. 
it is true. personality disorders are generally harder to treat than other disorders

ie social anxiety is not easy to treat but easier than apd

bipolar disorder is not easy to treat but easier than borderline personality disorder


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## sweet_tiff4prez (Oct 11, 2008)

Halfie said:


> I disagree, actually. I think you're right about "garden variety" social anxiety being more like a phobia, where in that person's case, it's the _social situation_ that's inherently frightening.
> 
> With me, on the other hand, it's all about the fear of rejection. For me, the prospect of being less than 100% liked after any encounter feels like a fate worse than death. I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.
> 
> ...


ditto. this is how it was explained in my psych course. that is the main differences


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## Freedom2010 (Jan 29, 2009)

Halfie said:


> But for me, it's ALL about the other person. I scrutinize them like a hawk, reading way too deep into every little gesture, or flick of the eyebrow, looking for anything that can be interpreted as a sign of rejection. I can often recall in searing detail the expressions on everyone else's faces, their body language, what they said, the tone in which they said it, etc. I couldn't care less how _I _feel in that moment. The person I'm talking to might be acting like a complete jerk, but I'm usually too busy bending over backwards to be as pleasant as possible and saying whatever I think they want to hear for it to even occur to me to take offense. "I'm" only relevant to the extent that I can shape the other person's reactions to me by acting a certain way, or saying things they want to hear. My feelings don't count.
> 
> So the reason I'm afraid of social situations isn't because I find social situations inherently frightening, it's because the stakes are so high because I feel like I'm defending my whole self-worth every time. When the stakes are that high, of course you're going to get nervous. And oftentimes rather than put myself through such a stressful ordeal, it's simply easier to avoid social contact altogether. But for somebody with "classic" SA, I don't think there's nearly this much calculation involved. They just find social situations inherently terrifying, like people afraid of spiders are inherently afraid of spiders. They aren't afraid because they've made some emotional cost/benefit calculation, it's simply a reflexive response. I don't find all social situations terrifying--for example, it makes a big difference if I'm in group therapy with other people with similar issues, because we all come in with vulnerabilities, so there's very little risk of being judged or condemned. I feel completely at ease in that environment. But people with classic SA just wouldn't feel comfortable around ANY strangers, even if those strangers were other people with SA themselves. Because, again, it's the social aspect that terrifies them, not the fear of rejection/judgment aspect.
> 
> So yeah. I think APD is a mix of factors, mainly an intense, abnormal need to be liked, and an extremely low self-esteem and sense of self-worth, which makes me deeply insecure and constantly suspicious that other people don't like me--or maybe they like me now, but if they only got to know "the real me" they would have no choice but to recoil in disgust. So, I'm hypersensitive to rejection, AND I'm inclined to see signs of rejection everywhere because when people do like me, I literally can't believe it. That's a killer combo.


Weird. Someone feels the exact same way I do about social situations. I thought I was the only one who felt like that. For me though, I am afraid of the social situation itself, and I am also afraid of being rejected. I didn't even realize I studied every move the other person made toward me, but I guess I do.

I refuse to say that I have AVPD or SAD because I refuse to call my shyness a disorder. I think I can fix this as soon as I am willing to face my fears. A disorder sounds so incurable. Especially a personality disorder. Whose to say that there is something wrong with my entire personality???


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## Canadian Brotha (Jan 23, 2009)

Halfie said:


> With me, on the other hand, it's all about the fear of rejection. For me, the prospect of being less than 100% liked after any encounter feels like a fate worse than death. I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.
> 
> I think the biggest difference between me and somebody with classic SA, is that somebody with classic SA is too preoccupied with the terrifying feelings they're going through to really care in that precise moment whether the other person likes them or not. If they try to recall what happened later, they probably wouldn't remember anything about how the other person was reacting at the time. But for me, it's ALL about the other person. I scrutinize them like a hawk, reading way too deep into every little gesture, or flick of the eyebrow, looking for anything that can be interpreted as a sign of rejection. I can often recall in searing detail the expressions on everyone else's faces, their body language, what they said, the tone in which they said it, etc.
> 
> So yeah. I think APD is a mix of factors, mainly an intense, abnormal need to be liked, and an extremely low self-esteem and sense of self-worth, which makes me deeply insecure and constantly suspicious that other people don't like me--or maybe they like me now, but if they only got to know "the real me" they would have no choice but to recoil in disgust. So, I'm hypersensitive to rejection, AND I'm inclined to see signs of rejection everywhere because when people do like me, I literally can't believe it. That's a killer combo.





kintrovert said:


> Well - these days, I lack the desire to be around people 98% of the time (but a good question to ask myself is - is this lack of desire due to the anxiety, or is it more of a pure lack of desire? Or is the anxiety due to the lack of desire?).... I cherish a lot of personal space, and constant "alone time".
> 
> Right now, I'm in my comfort-zone: it's 5:20 a.m. - I'm in the kitchen alone - and everyone is back in their bedrooms. I have peace and quiet - and I'm in my own world. I'm just a highly-avoidant, highly-introverted person.





njodis said:


> To me, AvPD basically looks like "social anxiety disorder, with avoidance being the primary coping mechanism."
> 
> That would pretty much be me.


This totally describes me, I avoid people mostly because I cherish alone time & also because I hate being miserable around others, they pick up on it & I feel as though I ruined things for everyone. I also have panic attacks/extreme anxiety in social situations as well so it's a mix between the 2 but I definitely relate to AVPD.


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## Jinnix (Jul 6, 2006)

I used to think I had social anxiety, but then I learned about AvPD. I still post here because the symptoms and effects are pretty much the same.


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## solasum (Nov 17, 2008)

I think any psychologist would say I have this. This does seem to fit very well. :um I saw that someone posted that he/she wouldn't see a psychologist because he/she avoids people... that's just like me. I wouldn't see anyone because I don't think that anyone can help. They couldn't tell me anything I don't already know (I don't mean that as arrogant as it sounds).


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Halfie said:


> Does anybody else have avoidant personality disorder? I do. It's severe enough that my psychiatrist recommended putting me in a day hospital program for a couple weeks. (By the way, has anybody been to a day hospital? Did it help?) He also told me that my personality disorder is the reason why I'm still depressed despite all the meds I've been taking for almost two years now. There's no pill to fix a personality disorder. Has anybody had APD and is now cured? Or any personality disorder? It seems like a personality disorder would be much harder to treat than a simple chemical imbalance.


The only people I've met who admit to having AvPD have been online friends. So far I've met only four people who claim to have overcome AvPD.

One claimed he cured it with Kundalini Yoga.
Two claimed Zoloft cured them.
One claimed getting her first boyfriend cured her. I guess he was a hell of a guy.

All these people were under the age of 25. Ouch.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

Here's a thought, instead of thinking about the difference between SA and AvPD maybe we should be thinking about the difference between SA/AvPd and Depersonalization Disorder.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

Okay, i understand that many here can relate to the diagnostic criteria for Avpd, but i don't understand why people want to label their personalities as being 'disordered'. Surely by accepting that your personality is 'flawed' (if you read the DSM or ICD-10 then this is what personality disorder essentially is) - you only make yourself feel worse about yourself. And personality disorders are deeply ingrained - most therapists and psychiatrists do NOT think they are 'curable' - and furthermore, a lot have very poor opinions of people with 'PD' and are reluctant to work with them. I know - i work in psychiatry and am often appalled by the way healthcare workers talk about those patients with a 'PD' label. they often refer to them as being 'inadequate'. Why would you want to label yourself as that? It must reflect how terribly low self-esteem you people have!


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

LALoner said:


> Here's a thought, instead of thinking about the difference between SA and AvPD maybe we should be thinking about the difference between SA/AvPd and Depersonalization Disorder.


Depersonalisation can be a symptom of anxiety or depression - or can occur in psychosis - or occurs sometimes in healthy people. I'm not sure how we are to compare it with SA or AvPD. Please explain


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## zta (Jul 5, 2008)

solasum said:


> I think any psychologist would say I have this. This does seem to fit very well. :um I saw that someone posted that he/she wouldn't see a psychologist because he/she avoids people... that's just like me. I wouldn't see anyone because I don't think that anyone can help. They couldn't tell me anything I don't already know (I don't mean that as arrogant as it sounds).


I saw a psychologist and he told me I was the most well informed patient he ever had. We ended up just chatting in our sessions. I stopped going because I don't have money to spend just for chats. So yea I wouldn't see a psychologist again because I've had a couple of other similar experiences. (If you're already insightful and keep your eyes/ears open to the world around you, there's not much new they can tell you.) I am very interested in CBT though. I can't afford it. I really think I may have avoidant pd but I'm not sure of the defining difference between SAD and APD. (My former psychologist insisted I didn't have any personality disoder. Two other therapists said the same thing. I just think they were making that decision too fast.) I haven't read this whole thread which I will do now.

Edit: I have a question. Are others good at putting on an act when it's necessary like a job interview. I've developed a skill of putting on what people want to see (once I figure out what they want to see). I'm really good at it but it's not real. I can look confident but there's so much fear underneath. I'll get hired but I'll quit from the stress of interacting at work. Sometimes I've held out for a year and a half before I quit. Sometimes it's after one day. Is the need for an "act" indicative of a pd?


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## FairleighCalm (May 20, 2007)

*United States of Tara - Showtime. Might interest some peeps.*


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## tim78 (Nov 2, 2008)

I definitely have avoidant personality disorder. I just don't know what to do about it. Since i was probably in high school I hated people getting to know me. I always kept people at a distance. I'm still that way now. I have acquaintances but I usually wont socialize with them, for fear they might get to know me and find out that I'm really a loser or something. I also don't date for the same reason.


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## LALoner (Dec 3, 2008)

determinedtowin said:


> Depersonalisation can be a symptom of anxiety or depression - or can occur in psychosis - or occurs sometimes in healthy people. I'm not sure how we are to compare it with SA or AvPD. Please explain


What I mean is that its qualitatively different and this qualitative difference would make more of a difference in treatment than the difference between SA and AvPD. Its a distinction that matters more. Lots of people on the Depersonalization forums claim to also have SA and AvPD. I think the difference between the depersonalized and non depersonalized socially anxious is more important the difference between the extremely and moderately socially anxious.


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## Spectator31 (Jan 25, 2009)

zta said:


> Edit: I have a question. Are others good at putting on an act when it's necessary like a job interview. I've developed a skill of putting on what people want to see (once I figure out what they want to see). I'm really good at it but it's not real. I can look confident but there's so much fear underneath. I'll get hired but I'll quit from the stress of interacting at work. Sometimes I've held out for a year and a half before I quit. Sometimes it's after one day. Is the need for an "act" indicative of a pd?


Guilty! Last year, I switched jobs 3x in a span of 5 mos. I'd be all confident during the interview then after I start the job, my confidence level starts to decrease. I "self-destruct" after a few weeks then I'd want to quit so I can "start over" by applying in a new job. And so the cycle begins.....again. :no


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## Lirael (Jan 6, 2009)

Wow, this sounds a lot like me. I had my mom read about it on wikipedia and she couldn't believe how much it describes my situation. I've got an appointment with a psychiatrist in a few weeks so I'll try not to self diagnose but... thanks for posting this. I'd never heard of it.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

Lirael said:


> Wow, this sounds a lot like me. I had my mom read about it on wikipedia and she couldn't believe how much it describes my situation. I've got an appointment with a psychiatrist in a few weeks so I'll try not to self diagnose but... thanks for posting this. I'd never heard of it.


If you think there is something wrong with your personality, the best person to talk to is a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists generally don't like to 'treat' someone's personality because it's not considered a mental illness as such. It's more of a well ... problem with 'who a person is'. Therapy is the best way forward - although most think that a personality can't really be changed becaus it is so deeply ingrained. Good luck with your pdoc.


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

Ive been hospitalized for depression but not for a personality disorder.


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## Eugenie (Feb 17, 2009)

416girl said:


> It's just easier for me to avoid situations where I know uncomfortable *life* questions are sure to be asked. (My life's ****, btw).


Yep, that's the same reason I avoid people too. I don't think I have APD though, because I don't feel this is really me. Which is part of the reason its so frustrating.


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## Eugenie (Feb 17, 2009)

determinedtowin said:


> Okay, i understand that many here can relate to the diagnostic criteria for Avpd, but i don't understand why people want to label their personalities as being 'disordered'. Surely by accepting that your personality is 'flawed' (if you read the DSM or ICD-10 then this is what personality disorder essentially is) - you only make yourself feel worse about yourself. And personality disorders are deeply ingrained - most therapists and psychiatrists do NOT think they are 'curable' - and furthermore, a lot have very poor opinions of people with 'PD' and are reluctant to work with them. I know - i work in psychiatry and am often appalled by the way healthcare workers talk about those patients with a 'PD' label. they often refer to them as being 'inadequate'. Why would you want to label yourself as that? It must reflect how terribly low self-esteem you people have!


YES the PD labels scare the hell out of me. I had a "friend" tell me she thought I had Borderline Personality Disorder. I don't know whether its true or not, but the threat of it really hangs over me and can only be destructive. Maybe there's some comfort in hiding under a diagnosis. But I don't think we should ever define ourselves solely in relation to these things.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

Eugenie said:


> YES the PD labels scare the hell out of me. I had a "friend" tell me she thought I had Borderline Personality Disorder. I don't know whether its true or not, but the threat of it really hangs over me and can only be destructive. Maybe there's some comfort in hiding under a diagnosis. But I don't think we should ever define ourselves solely in relation to these things.


I agree - a lot of psychiatrists are quite reluctant to diagnose PD because the label is a very derogatory one. It's one thing to be told that you suffer from a mental illness - but to have your entire 'personality' labelled as being somehow 'inept' is quite a different matter. I work in psychiatry, and in my experience, a lot of people who are given a dx of PD, experience some form of relief from these 'PD symptoms' when their axis 1 dx is treated, which suggests that a lot of PD symptoms are a part of an 'illness' rather than part of the 'person'. Besides, being shy, sensitive, cautious, introverted are not necessarily bad things - so i don't believe the whole personality should be labelled as being 'flawed' - because these same traits can also be positive. As Eugiene said, it's not always good to 'hide behind' a label - a PD label is quite a controversial one - in the fiture i really believe the DSM and ICD will drop most of the PD classifications because they are not helpful.


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## determinedtowin (Nov 19, 2008)

Eugenie said:


> YES the PD labels scare the hell out of me. I had a "friend" tell me she thought I had Borderline Personality Disorder. I don't know whether its true or not, but the threat of it really hangs over me and can only be destructive. Maybe there's some comfort in hiding under a diagnosis. But I don't think we should ever define ourselves solely in relation to these things.


Unless your 'friend' is a psychiatrist then they are not qualified to dx - ignore your 'friend' - and anyhow, a lot of people could squeeze themselves into the 'borderline' description - especially those that are a little temperamental, artistic, impulsive or insecure etc etc. Actually, iam sure that i read somewhere that the next DSM is going to classify 'borderline' as a mood disorder/PTSD - rather than a personality problem. 'Borderline traits' are very very common among those with bipolar disorder - and probably among mental health patients in general.


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## Titanic Explorer (Feb 22, 2009)

I do..
and at 40, I'm trying to break out of it.......

After work, all i want to do is go home and be snug ....I'll spend weekends, and certainly whole vacations cooped up inside- and when I do go out, won't intereact with anyone- Save for my best friend, i don't have friends- 

In college, I locked myself in my dorm room, alone when other college kids were having fun..

I want to change this, I am desperate to change this, and have started going out, and forcing myself to interact with poeple.

My uncle had it till his last day on earth, and at his funeral, it was clear- He had never made any friends- Only the immediate family mourned for him....

I don't want that!!!
But is it too late for me? I hope not..

Could this be genetic? My cousin is the same way, as was my late uncle (both on my mother's side of the family), and to some extent my estranged father- My father is 82, very outgoing, he travels everywhere- but he doesn't have any friends...I figured I just followed his bad example, and my brothers followed my mother's example of being very outgoing and gregarious.

My siblings have ZERO sympathy or understanding of my social awkwardness.


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## Titanic Explorer (Feb 22, 2009)

BeachGaBulldog said:


> I have never been told that I have APD, but I know that I have it. I avoid people as much as possible. Besides this and SA, I have OCD and ADD.


That describes me to a T....

My OCD involves my spending 5 minutes checking and rechecking to see I locked the door, and to make sure a letter I dropped in the mailbox went all the way in.....My ADD is such I can rarely sit through a whole song or show, and I always repeat questions in a converation that had been answered...


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## Eugenie (Feb 17, 2009)

determinedtowin said:


> Unless your 'friend' is a psychiatrist then they are not qualified to dx - ignore your 'friend' - and anyhow, a lot of people could squeeze themselves into the 'borderline' description - especially those that are a little temperamental, artistic, impulsive or insecure etc etc. Actually, iam sure that i read somewhere that the next DSM is going to classify 'borderline' as a mood disorder/PTSD - rather than a personality problem. 'Borderline traits' are very very common among those with bipolar disorder - and probably among mental health patients in general.


Yes I know borderline is thought of as a fairly questionable diagnosis in a lot of circles. She herself is borderline and thought I seemed to have similar issues. I would say I have borderline tendencies- I just revisited the criteria and they are so me its kind of unnerving. But I don't think I'm ready for an institution quite yet!


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## Titanic Explorer (Feb 22, 2009)

Do you go out and paint the town on friday nights and weekends, or stay home?
I stay in....


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## zta (Jul 5, 2008)

This is someone's summary of a book on apd I found online. 

"Type I avoidants, the classic avoidants, are withdrawn. There are two subtypes of withdrawn avoidants. The first is the shy individual who cannot seem to tolerate, flinches in the face of, and pulls back from any form of social contact. The second suffers from a Social Phobia, which is a delimited pull back from a situation or event that symbolizes relationships, for example, from public speaking or eating in public. Though shy and social phobic avoidants are the main and virtually exclusive focus of today's scientific literature, these avoidants may not even be in a majority, but may represent only the tip of the avoidant iceberg. 

Types II and III avoidants, almost entirely ignored by the literature, also suffer from relationship anxiety -- but their relationship anxiety takes the form not of shyness or Social Phobia but of unstable relationships due to a fear of commitment. Type II avoidants shift from relationship to relationship afraid of closeness due to a fear of commitment ("mingle" avoidants such as the perpetual bachelor or femme fatale). They are therefore the opposite of withdrawn. These are hyperrelated individuals who can relate easily, widely and well but have difficulty sustaining the relationships they form. Theirs are unstable relationships, marked by a tendency to abandon relationships before they fully develop, especially when closeness threatens and commitment looms. Type III avoidants form lasting relationships only to disrupt them after months or years of apparent functionality. These are what I call the "seven year itch" avoidants who form what appear to be solid relationships -- only to tire of them after a shorter or longer period of time, then leave them with little warning. That is, they abandon their relationships after some time has passed, and they often do so suddenly and without warning. 

Type IV avoidants hide out in a codependent relationship with one person to avoid having healthy relationships with many people. They sink into one relationship to avoid all others. Some are dependent on their family. Others are dependent on a lover with whom they form a merger relationship that protects them from the anxiety associated with relationships outside of the primary relationship. 

These are all patients with APD."


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## bballfan (Mar 1, 2009)

yes ive experienced avoiding people all my life


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## Lumiere (Jun 13, 2009)

Halfie said:


> I disagree, actually. I think you're right about "garden variety" social anxiety being more like a phobia, where in that person's case, it's the _social situation_ that's inherently frightening.
> 
> With me, on the other hand, it's all about the fear of rejection. For me, the prospect of being less than 100% liked after any encounter feels like a fate worse than death. I feel my heart beating in my head even when I'm checking replies to my forum posts on here, and if anyone has a less than completely approving post, I take it really, really hard. I feel like nothing less than my entire self-worth is on the line with every single interaction, no matter how trivial.
> 
> ...


This is exactly my experience, too.

I only looked into AvPD in detail for the first time last night and I seem to fit almost all the criteria for diagnosis.

I avoid EVERYTHING. However, I agree that this all seems in a way to be on a spectrum of symptoms with SA and that a lot of people here seem to have similar issues to me and a lot don't. It seems like the two "disorders" are definitely mixed up together in most cases to varying degrees.

I think I definitely have AvPD, but thankfully the methods of overcoming it seem to be identical to SA.

edit: a classic example of my avoidance is that I have an appointment with my diabetic doctor at the hospital, this afternoon; who I haven't seen for well over a year. I really need to see him, as I'm quite concerned about several things, but I'm so anxious right now and I'm seriously considering phoning up and making an excuse. I won't, though, as it's virtually impossible for several reasons, but that's how bad my avoidance is.
I will (and have) literally put off seeing a doctor for months, even if it's for something that's potentially quite serious.


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## travisbickle77 (Aug 3, 2009)

*nosleepin6years*

i was diagnosed w/ APD. maybe thats because i have an ancient, deeply ingrained anxiety and a 6 year old insomnia problem and i never know what to say to people and act like i am busy with something to avoid (!) having to interact or look at them. i think the only hope is to find people like me, but i am deeply convinced that there is no one else like me in the whole world, and in the end the social isolation will break me and lead to me doing god knows what. i think APD is just the label the psychs slap on those patients who aren't acting cheerful, bubbly and manipulative enough, and you are considered sick or contrary if you dont accept things the %*@$-ed up way they are, instead of trying to change it for the better. i hesitate to go to shrinks because 1: no health Ins; 2: i was once involuntarily "admitted" to a hospital without ever being told why--this makes my mistrustfulness of people (especially mhp's) deeper and makes me feel more alone, threatened ,and hopeless...


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

LarryM said:


> I don't know or to be honest care what its called, but my inability to deal with people judging me (real or otherwize) has gotten so bad that I haven't been able to work. I am also about to start a 3 week day program. I don't know if it will help but I need to do something. Good luck


Larry please don't take this the wrong way, but do you think it is a good idea to put so much faith and energy into your psychiatric diagnoses? I notice you have them as your signature. Try to see yourself as a human being first who may have some challenges to deal with. You don't want to see yourself JUST as a diseased person. I wish you the best with your treatment. Good luck.


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## antonina (Oct 25, 2008)

Halfie said:


> Does anybody else have avoidant personality disorder? I do. It's severe enough that my psychiatrist recommended putting me in a day hospital program for a couple weeks. (By the way, has anybody been to a day hospital? Did it help?) He also told me that my personality disorder is the reason why I'm still depressed despite all the meds I've been taking for almost two years now. There's no pill to fix a personality disorder. Has anybody had APD and is now cured? Or any personality disorder? It seems like a personality disorder would be much harder to treat than a simple chemical imbalance.


My own psychiatrist said that they may even collapse social anxiety disorder and APD into the same disorder because they are so much alike and the treatment is still the same. I also can tell you medication does help. You will still have to change your ingrained behavior patterns though.

I also have heard that APD is the most treatable of all the personality disorders. Here is a website about it run by people with it: http://www.avoidantpersonality.com/?sidemenu

People can improve, don't give up hope. I hope your treatment goes well.


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## meyaj (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah I think there's an unbelievable of overlap between the two. Personally, I don't see how you can have one without the other.

I also find there's a significant amount of overlap with "Atypical Depression." I've been diagnosed with all 3, unsurprisingly enough, in addition to ADD (ADHD-I in DSM-IV) and GAD. But it's that trifecta of social anxiety, avoidance, and depression that affects my quality of the life most.

What is a day hospital anyways? My psychiatrist keeps asking me to admit myself for a week or so (normal hospital), and I wouldn't mind except for the stigma associated with that, and the talk that would no doubt be circulating at the very least my extended family. Kind of ****ty... the disorder gets in the way of its own treatment!


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## psychstudent (Apr 12, 2012)

*Social Phobia and Avoidant Personality Disorder*

Hi, I am a high school student conducting a research project about the similarities between social phobia and avoidant personality disorder for my Independent Research G/T class. It would be a huge help if you could complete this form. All answers are completely anonymous.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dEhydjhtWHJhdGR4Q1FYOHdqV3gzWUE6MQ


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## big ted 1 (Sep 13, 2012)

*avoidant personality disorder*

I think i have AVP, i'ts got to the point were i'm virtually a loner, no friends, no job, no girlfriend, no hope of anything changing, i tried to see somebody to talk to but never stayed in contact long enough for me to get a proper diagnosis because it's very hard for me to talk to people,i have been on medication on and off for the the past five years but nothing has helped, i'v never been on a forum like this before and i'm not sure what to expect, if there is anybody out there who thinks they can relate i'd love to hear from you


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## jimity (Jan 12, 2011)

big ted 1 said:


> I think i have AVP, i'ts got to the point were i'm virtually a loner, no friends, no job, no girlfriend, no hope of anything changing, i tried to see somebody to talk to but never stayed in contact long enough for me to get a proper diagnosis because it's very hard for me to talk to people,i have been on medication on and off for the the past five years but nothing has helped, i'v never been on a forum like this before and i'm not sure what to expect, if there is anybody out there who thinks they can relate i'd love to hear from you


I'm pretty much the same except I work (thanks to my dad, he made me get a job). There is no hope at the moment of anything changing. I recently made friends with someone but it was next to hell talking to them and my anxiety didn't change one bit. I was drinking most of the time just to message them. This was just over the internet so I can only imagine real life being far worse. I cut off the relationship because my fear got in the way.


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## lordtecs (Dec 13, 2012)

.


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## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

This is an old thread that I never saw before. Usually when this comes up a copy/paste and explanation of SA vs. AvPD:

AvPD is an axis II disorder. Social phobia or SAD is an axis I. But they do have lots of overlap in symptoms. Most people who have AvPD develop SAD or GAD. But a person could have SAD without having AvPD. Here's the way I have heard the difference:

In Personality Disorders in Modern Life, they explain very well the difference between Axis I disorders and Axis II disorders. With that information people should distinguish easily an Axis I disorder like Social Anxiety and an Axis II disorder like Avoidant Personality Disorder.


They explain that:
Axis I disorders are analogous to diseases. They are ultimately the reason why you end up in psychiatric treatment. Those are depression, anxiety, depersonalisation, psychosis, and all those mental disorders that you can have. So they are analogous to the flu, the cold, the plague, etc: this is why you end up in the hospital.

Axis II disorders are analogous to the immune system. Personality disorders are analogous to a compromised immune system. In normal people, events in life are unlikely to lead to an Axis I disorder. However, if you have a personality disorder, you are almost certain to develop Axis I disorders, since it's as if you have a weakened immune system: any minimal infection leads to development of a disease. And like with compromised immune systems, you can also have something analogous to auto-immune diseases where the mere fact of having a personality disorder will lead to an Axis I disorder without requiring any life event at all. ; similar to auto-immune diseases like Lupus and Multiple Sclerosis, where the disease is caused by the immune system itself. The "immune system" is so overreactive that it ends up destroying instead of protecting the person.


For example, if you see Avoidant Personality Disorder as a compromised immune system (a defense mechanism, because that's really what it is), then you can see what "diseases" it makes you particularly prone to. A defense strategy that involves avoiding difficulties will simply reinforce the tendency to "avoid", such as increasing the fight or flight response, making you more and more prone to anxiety over time. It will become very easy to develop a "disease" like social anxiety even under minimal pressure, and with strong cases of avoidance, the "immune system" itself can end up spawning social anxiety by itself without even needing an outside agent. Same thing that this immune system makes you very likely to develop depression over minimal life event, and even develop depression "just like that" with no life event attached to it.

So Social Anxiety Disorder and AvPD are not even the same "category" of disorders. Axis I and Axis II are not based on the same assumptions. "Anybody" is at risk of developping SAD when under suffisant pressure, but somebody with AvPD will need significantly less pressure, and AvPD can go as far as to spawn SAD by its mere presence.

In other words, if you have an Axis II disorder, Axis I disorders will be the story of your life. You can get immediate help for Axis I disorders, but Axis II disorders tend to be particularly hard to solve and many people simply take the easy route of solving the Axis I disorders that the Axis II spawns.

Here's another way I saw someone explain it. They said their psychiatrist said AVPD is a pattern of behavior that has existed for a long long time. It starts out as SAD but becomes AVPD without treatment. AVPD is where the person deals with anxiety through avoidance. However the person still feels anxiety if they have to do things they don't like. It's just that they try to structure their lives in ways to avoid the things that make them feel anxiety.


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## Introspect (Aug 9, 2013)

i just searched this because i believe i have AVPD. and after reading 'comparisons' and 'differentiation's i think i'm starting to get my head around how these two disorders are so similar yet different.

i think with social anxiety/SAD, a person has all of the symptoms of the 'social phobia' that is shared with Avoidant Personality Disorder. so in other words - all people with AVPD have Social Anxiety Disorder. but not all people with Social Anxiety Disorder, have AVPD. depending on what end of the spectrum (mild, severe, etc) these people may suffer with the symptoms and fears, but it might not be so bad that they're esteem is necessarily affected, or their beliefs of them selves are negative. it doesn't necessarily make them socially inept or inadequate. i think there is also a more specific emphasis on Social situations, not specifically people or necessarily rejections for all sufferers of SAD.

Avoidant Personality Disorder is different. not because AVPD sufferers don't have SAD, its because they have an EXTRA disorder. heres how:

we know what a disorder means, so lets just put that word aside. 

what were talking about, are two different things - Personality, and Phobia. 

a Phobia is not a personality. and a Personality, is not a phobia. so in other words,

having a Phobia of something is not the same as having a Personality Disorder.
avoiding a phobia is normal behaviour. by avoiding social situations, it doesn't mean you have AVPD. forget the emphasis on avoiding. emphasise instead, on the personality.

lets say we have two people with Social Anxiety Disorder, turn up to a party. both are individuals. they will share the same Anxiety and same fears in this situation. but what still separates them is their personality, the behaviour of it. they can still be completely different and individual in their behaviour in how they act and react to people.

AVPD is a personality disorder. so lets say we send two people to the same party with AVPD. they will have the same feelings as the two with Social Anxiety Disorder but the two with AVPD will have personality traits in common that are to do with the personality disorder. so, simply put - SAD people are afraid and phobic of the same things, but they maintain their individual personality and characteristics of their personality. the AVPD sufferers will not just be afraid. their SAD affects their PERSONALITY. 

AVPD people will have personality traits in common - an unhealthy need to be liked, or be popular. they arent just afraid of humiliation or rejection - they simply cannot tolerate it. this affects their personality - they will shape their personality around someone if it means avoiding rejection or disapproval. they arent just afraid of what people might think, its Important to them. its important so they scrutinise, analyse, and study people as they talk with them. Halfies post on page 1 really is a good description of how their personality is affected.

i don't think i've done a good job on trying to explain my thoughts, i didn't find it as easy as i hoped. but i definitely see the difference. i know what a phobia is like by its self, as i have a phobia that hasnt got anything to do with my social issues. (phobia of vomiting, called emetophobia) my emetophobia has nothing to do with my personality, i avoid eating outside and i worry about getting sick. i have anxiety and panic attacks when i feel off or nauseas. and i feel terrified if i can tell i'm going to vomit. thats it. 

so in summary - SAD are people who deal with physiological symptoms and worry / have anxiety about their fear - which is of humiliation / rejection / perhaps criticism. and their mind/thoughts become preoccupied with how they look, how they sound when they talk, what other people are judging or thinking of them.

AVPD is when this phobia/fear/anxiety is actually affecting your personality in relation to other people - how you treat them, behave towards them - as a result of your MIND. your mind thinks suspiciously, believes you're not good enough, or that people will reject you/not like you, you think it>feel it>believe it. you feel thats whats in store for you everytime with a person. you need to be liked/accepted. 

SAD suffers avoid facing their phobia as a result of their worry/fear/anxiety.

AVPD suffers will avoid people, because they think that the other person doesn't like them, they might distance themselves from friends and people they don't even get anxious with usually (friends/family) if these people criticise them or say anything remotely negative. AVPD suffers think/believe it in their mind. SAD people imagine it, worry it, get anxious over it. take away the social anxiety then the SAD sufferer is effectively cured.

take the social anxiety away from the AVPD sufferer and they will not be cured. they may stop worrying, stop feeling anxious, and stop avoiding socialising in general as much - because they feel comfortable. 

but they will NOT stop believing and thinking. their mind behaves exactly the same. and despite not having anxiety, the pain of dealing with criticism/rejection, and losing esteem/self worth, makes them still avoid someone who doesn't LIKE them. even though not being liked doesn't make them feel anxious, it still affects them.

AVPD is relevant beyond social situations or even specific people. is entirely relevant to the individual sufferer in their whole life. whole personality, and it follows them into every interaction with every single person, except for maybe a spouse/partner/parent. because the problem is integrated in their personality - need to be liked/accepted.


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## digmeup (Jul 8, 2015)

Halfie said:


> UltraShy said:
> 
> 
> > APD is just another name for severe social anxiety. Just like social anxiety is just another name for social phobia.
> ...


Thank you for clearing that up. Too many people think that AvPD and severe generalized social anxiety disorder are the same thing. But they are two different disorders. Why else would one be a personality disorder and the other an anxiety disorder?

AvPD makes way more sense to me. If I had the courage to get a therapist lol I would probably talk to them about this, cause it makes so much sense. Most people on this forum have apprehension, dread, and fear while I feel like I have more social "paranoia" than most people on this forum. Like you said, I analyze peoples' facial expressions to the point of obsession. I don't exactly feel fear as much as I feel like people are negatively evaluating me. This causes me to avoid any situations where I have to talk to others. For me it's less of a fear of temporary judgment and more of a fear of rejection.

People with SA can go hang out with friends as long as they know everyone in the group and are comfortable with them. But when it comes to performing, they feel intense anxiety. People with AvPD can't feel comfortable around anyone, because at any moment those people could just outright reject them. The later explains me perfectly.

I avoid situations way more than anyone in my area. But I don't think it's extreme enough to be AvPD, at the most it's probably mild AvPD. I avoid just as much as people on this forum.


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## visualkeirockstar (Aug 5, 2012)

I think I do.


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