# Stronger benzo than Xanax?



## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

I've looked all over and I don't know what to do. My social anxiety is so severe that even Xanax doesn't really help. Perhaps my issues are more deep-seated and need to be worked out through therapy, but even on 4mg of Xanax, I still feel very anxious. Obviously, I FEEL it, but it doesn't take away the anxiety. And since my tolerance is kinda low, I'm slightly impaired, but STILL anxious.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

Clonazepam


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

Dr House said:


> Clonazepam


I know of Clonazepam. I'm currently prescribed 60 Xanax (1mg) and 60 Clonazepam (1mg). It doesn't help much either.

Can you tell me anything about Ativan? I've heard it's great for Social Anxiety, but if Xanax or Clonazepam don't help much, do you think a weaker benzodiazepine could make a difference, just by the way it works? Also, I'd like to stay off of SSRIs, but I am open to other alternatives other than Benzodiazepines.


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

Benzos doesnt treat SA. You are only winning a for life addiction in that way.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

JohnG said:


> Benzos doesnt treat SA. You are only winning a for life addiction in that way.


Well, recommend, rather than condemn. And yes, at this point, most benzos are just escapism for depression and anxiety, rather than actual treatment. If you know of a non-SSRI/SNRI treatment, let me know. Thanks.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

Mirtazapine, Bupropion, Addy, Etc. Benzos are addictive, depressant (in the long term) substances, use with care.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

JohnG said:


> Mirtazapine, Bupropion, Addy, Etc. Benzos are addictive, depressant (in the long term) substances, use with care.


Addy as in Adderall? I have considered that an option, but I'm afraid my psychiatrist will think I'm digging for drugs and blacklist me. She may come in and talk to him about, because from my recrational experiences it DOES greatly increase motivation, but imo, it's just as bad as Xanax, if not worse for the neurotoxicity. I'll ask my Psychiatrist about Mirtazapine net time I see him as well. Thank you.


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## Ambitious (Apr 17, 2011)

Does your doctor know about how much you are taking?


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

Ambitious said:


> Does your doctor know about how much you are taking?


I kind of lie and pretend like I take less than I do, mostly because of my anxiety and fear of being black-listed. So...if I brought up a tolerance issue, it may help.


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## Ambitious (Apr 17, 2011)

I understand being the fear of him/her taking the pescription away from you. But you should be honest as much as you can, now, as much as you possibly can, seriously. I am very concerned for you for the amount you are taking. Also did your doc not suggest therapy for you first??

You are going down a road of which recovery is very very difficult. 

How often are you taking xanax? An average week whats the dosage for you?


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

Ambitious said:


> I understand being the fear of him/her taking the pescription away from you. But you should be honest as much as you can, now, as much as you possibly can, seriously. I am very concerned for you for the amount you are taking. Also did your doc not suggest therapy for you first??
> 
> You are going down a road of which recovery is very very difficult.
> 
> How often are you taking xanax? An average week whats the dosage for you?


First of all, I appreciate your concern. i usually burn though my Xanax within a week or two, out of boredom...or addiction. But only because it doesn't help me socially. I am starting therapy, but I'm not sure how much it will help. I've had my first appointment and it went all right, but I feel as if I'm just wasting my mother's money and I won't make any real progress. Feel me?


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## WISEguy (Apr 27, 2011)

You need to understand that benzo aren't a permanent solution. You should check out a CBT therapist specialized in social anxiety.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

WISEguy said:


> You need to understand that benzo aren't a permanent solution. You should check out a CBT therapist specialized in social anxiety.


That's what I'm currently doing. I'm giving it a shot, but I'm afraid it won't work due to my amotivational nihilistic standpoint. Like I said, though, I'm giving it a shot.


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## belfort (May 3, 2009)

^i think thats hat therapy tries to curb, is the nihilistic, depressed mindset..

just gobbling benzos alone for the rest of your life isnt going to work..if i did that i would be a shell of a person a few years down the road as benzos make me very lethargic, apathetic, and eventually depressed...

some people swear by them though..i would love to see an accurate statistic on how many folks that are prescribed benzos can use them only as recommended and NOT every single day!


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

belfort said:


> ^i think thats hat therapy tries to curb, is the nihilistic, depressed mindset..
> 
> just gobbling benzos alone for the rest of your life isnt going to work..if i did that i would be a shell of a person a few years down the road as benzos make me very lethargic, apathetic, and eventually depressed...
> 
> some people swear by them though..i would love to see an accurate statistic on how many folks that are prescribed benzos can use them only as recommended and NOT every single day!


Well, hopefully, it'll work. I just worry that my disdain for this world is external rather than internal. Y'know with all the injustice and unnecessary suffering. Something drugs or therapy can't cure. But like I said, I'm giving it a shot. I'd love to not be constantly depressed and/or bored.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

..).


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## Socia (May 5, 2011)

as for Benzo's , Clonazepam woked best for me. and it's less addictive than xanax(alprazolam) because it has a longer half life.

benzo's should be used with caution, from personal experience they don't get u addicted if ur not taking them on daily basis. i take em only when i need em


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

Klonopin is the beast - don't touch it.


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## d829 (Jul 29, 2010)

WISEguy said:


> You need to understand that benzo aren't a permanent solution. You should check out a CBT therapist specialized in social anxiety.


+1 these pills are not to be used as a way of life - it's HELL coming off them for most people.

CBT and BioFeedback plus eating right are the skills

skills not pills


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## broflovski (Feb 1, 2011)

DEFO said:


> Well, recommend, rather than condemn. And yes, at this point, most benzos are just escapism for depression and anxiety, rather than actual treatment. If you know of a non-SSRI/SNRI treatment, let me know. Thanks.


From benzos to amphetamines... sounds not very promising. Maybe some experimental but more benign combo like rhodiola rosea, DL-phenylalanine, tianeptine (!), afobazole and bromantane.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

broflovski said:


> From benzos to amphetamines... sounds not very promising. Maybe some experimental but more benign combo like rhodiola rosea, DL-phenylalanine, tianeptine (!), afobazole and bromantane.


I'll look it up and try it out. Thank you.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

low dose opiates will work, almost for sure. I dont mind suggesting it as in my mind taking benzos is far worse, having experienced addiction to both.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

bben said:


> low dose opiates will work, almost for sure. I dont mind suggesting it as in my mind taking benzos is far worse, having experienced addiction to both.


I have little experience with opiates, but they do help with anxiety and depression a lot. I know that's an unhealthy road, but of course, so are benzos. Problem is, I don't think a psychiatrist can recommend an opiate for depression or anxiety. I mean, I DO have severe social anxiety, general anxiety disorder, and major depressive disorder...but, like...legally, are they even allowed to prescribe opiates for that? Of course, I'm a little street-savvy and COULD get some on my own, but I assume this isn't the forum to talk of such things.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

DEFO said:


> I have little experience with opiates, but they do help with anxiety and depression a lot. I know that's an unhealthy road, but of course, so are benzos. Problem is, I don't think a psychiatrist can recommend an opiate for depression or anxiety. I mean, I DO have severe social anxiety, general anxiety disorder, and major depressive disorder...but, like...legally, are they even allowed to prescribe opiates for that? Of course, I'm a little street-savvy and COULD get some on my own, but I assume this isn't the forum to talk of such things.


Its legal to use suboxone which is an opiate to treat addiction. Go to a psychiatrist that can give it, say your an addict with cravings who just got out of withdrawl. Bam you have legal opiates forever. Its not illegal either in any way, if you want to be 100% honest with it just take opiates for like 2 weeks before and show up in opiate withdrawl. It was well worth it for me, of course i am an opiate addict legit. Beats the **** out of brain damaging benzos, and i get a nice buzz every morning i get up and no SA ever..


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

bben said:


> Its legal to use suboxone which is an opiate to treat addiction. Go to a psychiatrist that can give it, say your an addict with cravings who just got out of withdrawl. Bam you have legal opiates forever. Its not illegal either in any way, if you want to be 100% honest with it just take opiates for like 2 weeks before and show up in opiate withdrawl. It was well worth it for me, of course i am an opiate addict legit. Beats the **** out of brain damaging benzos, and i get a nice buzz every morning i get up and no SA ever..


Nah, I can't lie like that. That loop-hole's just denial. I want something to treat my anxiety, not an escape route. Besides, Psychiatrist's aren't retarded. I'm being prescribed two benzos. If I tell him I'm doing opiates, he'll blacklist me anyway. Having a crooked Suboxone connect would be nice, but that treatment is the equivalent to suicide to me. My mom would prefer me an addict rather than dead, but still.


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

DEFO said:


> Nah, I can't lie like that. That loop-hole's just denial. I want something to treat my anxiety, not an escape route. Besides, Psychiatrist's aren't retarded. I'm being prescribed two benzos. If I tell him I'm doing opiates, he'll blacklist me anyway. Having a crooked Suboxone connect would be nice, but that treatment is the equivalent to suicide to me. My mom would prefer me an addict rather than dead, but still.


You want to treat your anxiety, not escape and yet you take brain damaging benzodiazepines ahahhahaa..... what do you think your doing??? Your escaping dude.

As far as your mom rathering you an addict then dead, opiates dont kill you... but benzo withdrawls can!

But i respect your choice to use brain damaging benzodiazepines that can cause permanent neurological damage in the form of memory loss and compromised ability to learn. They can also cause emotional problems for years when you stop if you dont have actual organic brain damage. Opiate withdrawl is over in 2 weeks-2 months.

I have been addicted to both and opiates are the FAR better choice long term. Im just sick of the opiophobia i see everywhere....

BUT i can see where your coming from legally, so i guess it makes sense for you.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

bben said:


> You want to treat your anxiety, not escape and yet you take brain damaging benzodiazepines ahahhahaa..... what do you think your doing??? Your escaping dude.
> 
> As far as your mom rathering you an addict then dead, opiates dont kill you... but benzo withdrawls can!
> 
> ...


I'm not afraid of Opiates, man. I know they're pretty safe, and I know they're safer than Benzos. However, what I'm trying to get across is that I'm looking for something that will help treat my anxiety rather than keeping me in a pacified, purgatorial state, which is all my Benzos really do now (except not well), and it will be the same with Opiates. I know the withdraw from Benzos is worse than with Opiates. I'm just not going to risk ****ing myself or my doctor over, and I don't think my mom's okay with giving me money to self-medicate with opiates bought from drug-dealers.

edit: also, when I said my mother would prefer me an addict rather than dead, I meant that to defend your point. Because I view using opiates as treatment as mere pacification for a life I'm genuinely unhappy with, I may as well commit suicide because it's the same oblivion I'm looking for (in terms of escapism). I was on your side by saying that my mom would prefer me being an addict to committing suicide, so Opiates would be okay as a last resort. Right now, I'm looking for a treatment that will help me get/keep my life on track, so I can live like a normal person. Go to school, talk to girls, get a job, get my license, etc. Do you even have Social Anxiety or do you just come to this forum to glorify opiates?


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## bben (Oct 24, 2009)

DEFO said:


> I'm not afraid of Opiates, man. I know they're pretty safe, and I know they're safer than Benzos. However, what I'm trying to get across is that I'm looking for something that will help treat my anxiety rather than keeping me in a pacified, purgatorial state, which is all my Benzos really do now (except not well), and it will be the same with Opiates. I know the withdraw from Benzos is worse than with Opiates. I'm just not going to risk ****ing myself or my doctor over, and I don't think my mom's okay with *giving me money to self-medicate with opiates bought from drug-dealers*.


thats why you do it legally through suboxone doctors, but i get your point. Long term id take curcumin, ****s good for mental health.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

bben said:


> thats why you do it legally through suboxone doctors, but i get your point. Long term id take curcumin, ****s good for mental health.


I don't even think my mother can afford to see a separate psychiatrist.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

49erJT said:


> I've never heard of a doctor using opiates to treat an anxiety disorder....I'd be willing to give it a try but I think most doctors would look at you like a drug addict.


Exactly. He knows I have a history with habitual Marijuana consumption, and I'm already prescribed what may be the two most commonly abused Benzos (Xanax and Clonazepam). There's no way in hell he'd give me opiates.


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## Bacon (Jul 4, 2010)

Xanax and Klonopin are the most powerfull benzo's out of the popular bunch nothin else thats more potent really.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## Rbk (Aug 5, 2010)

> Xanax and Klonopin are the most powerfull benzo's out of the popular bunch nothin else thats more potent really.


In theory. For me xanax(alprazolam) dosen't work at all and clonazepam is very weak. The best benzo for me is lorazepam which works for me much better than "strongest" benzos like alprazolam and clonazepam.

But remember that lorazepam isn't a toy like xanax. It really can be dangerous, especially when mixed with other drugs.


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## Bacon (Jul 4, 2010)

Rbk said:


> In theory. For me xanax(alprazolam) dosen't work at all and clonazepam is very weak. The best benzo for me is lorazepam which works for me much better than "strongest" benzos like alprazolam and clonazepam.
> 
> But remember that lorazepam isn't a toy like xanax. It really can be dangerous, especially when mixed with other drugs.


 Yeah everyone is unique in how meds effect them ativan didnt do much for me. Medication effects everyone uniquely. But speaking medically Ativan is half the potency of Xanax. 1.5 MG of Xanax = 3MG Ativan.


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## Rbk (Aug 5, 2010)

Bacon said:


> But speaking medically Ativan is half the potency of Xanax. 1.5 MG of Xanax = 3MG Ativan.


Yes I know. Xanax was my first benzo and I was very dissapointed from its effect on me. Clonazepam works for me but from 1,5mg which is much for the beginner and the effect is comparable to effect of 1mg of lorazepam. 3mg of lorazepam is enough to kill every kind of anxiety in my case


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## InnerPeace (Apr 21, 2011)

Based on potency Brotizolam is likely the "strongest". Admittedly, I never heard of it before, but a quick Google search brought it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotizolam


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

InnerPeace said:


> Based on potency Brotizolam is likely the "strongest". Admittedly, I never heard of it before, but a quick Google search brought it up:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotizolam


Yeah, I was looking at the most potent benzos through Wikipedia, and there are PLENTY that are more potent. They're just used as sedative-hypnotics rather than anxiolytics. So...according to a few charts, Xanax IS the strongest, and Clonazepam IS the 2nd strongest. I should note, I've been seeing this psychiatrist for over a year. Started with 0.5mg Clonazepam, then moved to 5mg Diazepam, then moved to 1mg Xanax, now I'm on 1mg Xanax and 1mg Clonazepam. I don't know where to go from here. Perhaps he can just increase the dose, because I feel like I need it.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

49erJT said:


> You take two benzos?


Not simultaneously. The Clonazepam are for 1-2mg each morning as needed (which takes the edge off a little, but doesn't completely treat) and the Xanax is for special occasions such as late night outings with friends and things like that. He doesn't tell me to take them in conjunction (though, even though combining CNS depressants is dangerous, that probably would be a strong enough effect to kill my anxiety, but I'd be impaired).


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## JohnG (Sep 3, 2010)

Do you have a diagnose? Which SSRI did you tried ? Usually they work pretty good for OCD, general anxiety disorder, but not for SA.


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## DEFO (May 5, 2011)

JohnG said:


> Do you have a diagnose? Which SSRI did you tried ? Usually they work pretty good for OCD, general anxiety disorder, but not for SA.


I've been diagnosed with severe Social Anxiety Disorder and Major Depressive Disorder. The SSRIs I've taken have been Lexapro, Citalopram, and Abilifiy (that was an antipsychotic for MDD, but I can't recall if it was an SSRI or not). I haven't liked any of them. I have no good experiences with anti-depressants or anti-psychotics.

edit: Oh, and I think I was also diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder. Social situations is just where it gets _*REALLY*_ bad.


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## 49erJT (Oct 18, 2010)

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