# My therapist says I already "know everything."



## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I had another session this weekend, and I brought the book Reinventing Your Life, as she requested. She looked at it and seemed impressed, writing it down and saying she should suggest it to clients. I thought it was a little strange that she'd suggest a book she hadn't even read before, but it was as if she could just take my word on it.

At one point she said, "See, I think you already have the answers up there [in my mind]. You seem to already know everything because I think you think about this a great deal."

She also said that I intellectualize in place of addressing emotions because the world of thinking is neat and more controllable than the world of emotions, which is chaotic and experienced rather than controlled. I already know this, and I told her that I just have problems accessing emotions and identifying my needs in the first place. I am stumped when attempting to dream about the future because there's so much fear/anxiety involved with almost every situation I envision (the more unfamiliar it is, the more troubling).

I have trouble identifying an ideal career because my imagination becomes clouded by imagining the anxiety I'd feel in this or that position. I can't accurately figure out what interests me as a result, because the anxiety/fear becomes the overwhelmingly dominant influence, rather than any sincere interest in a subject/career. It's like I notice no passions as a result. I'm very good at picking out what I _wouldn't_ like to do, but I've always had a difficult time coming up with ideas of what I _would_ like to do (lifelong problem that time alone hasn't solved).

I _think_ that this is something I need to be addressing first and foremost. If I could feel secure and comfortable in where I was going in life, I might be able to chill out a bit and address other issues more effectively and consistently. Then again, perhaps this process isn't "secure" or "comfortable" at all, which adds to the difficulty.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 3, 2008)

Perhaps you do "know everything" but a therapist should still be there to be supportive and help you take action. I hope she is doing this?

Odd that she hasn't read the book. Is it something you personally reccomend? What's it about (I'm interested  )?

As for a career, I understand what you are getting at completely. It can be horrifying and seem impossible. My idea of a career is working at home alone and being a housewife. XD
Actually, I'm serious, and am working hard towards this.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

The book regards schema therapy, and it's fascinating. It was my introduction to schemas, and it continues to give me the tools to understand my difficulties better. I definitely recommend it, particularly if your struggles are related to issues that go beyond SA.

She asked that I bring it in when I told her about how I had been reading it. She had heard of it, but not read it before.

The only dream I have is having enough money where I wouldn't have to work at all! :lol

I even had a dream last night that I won $271,000, and I was already imagining how I would invest it to maximize the long-term benefits... Then I woke up. :sigh


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Dude

Have you researched AvPD at all?

I think you may have triggered your therapists "not smart enough" schema .. she sense you dont wanna do things her way and is perhaps feeling stumped. Emotional expression is something that will help you for sure, especially as looking into the future is just hazy (I get that too). But right now is definitely not the time to be giving up - you just started to peel some of the scabs off and the wounds need proper care.

If that means a new therapist or just increased emotional honesty and feeling from you, then that may be whats needed.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

> The ICD-10 Classification of Mental and Behavioral Disorders
> World Health Organization, Geneva, 1992
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


I'm right on the border for qualifying. It's not obvious, but it's not like I totally don't relate to those characteristics either.

(a) is kind of strange because it doesn't mention a context, which suggests that this tension/apprehension is occuring all the time, regardless of context. This isn't true for me.

(b) is something I can relate to on a gut level (as well as intellectually at times).

(c) is something that is definitely on my mind in some social situations.

(d) doesn't apply because I have contacted, met, and interacted with people despite not knowing whether they'd like me (there is some restraint of course, but not "unwillingness").

(e) sounds kind of vague to me, so I'm not sure. The only way I am interpreting it is in such a way that it would apply to everyone, so that must not be correct. I guess I don't understand what this means specifically.

(f) applies frequently.

So there's 3, at least according to how I interpreted them (which may or may not be how they are intended to be interpreted).


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

Thats ICD-10 - try DSM-IV


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

> The American Psychiatric Association's DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines avoidant personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy, and hypersensitivity to negative evaluation, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
> 
> 1. Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
> 2. Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
> ...


1. Yeah, I'm pretty limited there.
2. No. Same reason as before.
3. Um, I can't say yes strongly enough. I feel ashamed to even think about intimacy.
4. I just wonder how "preoccupied" is required for this. In some contexts, I am very preoccupied with this, making me sort of close up and fade into the background. In others, I'm okay.
5. Inhibited in new social situations, more often than not. I resort to being generic and getting the attention off of myself.
6. Sometimes, as described earlier.
7. I am reluctant, but again, I don't know how reluctant it takes to qualify for this one.

So I might qualify for anywhere from 3 to 6 categories.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

LOL and who says you try to intellectualise your way out of emotional problems? :lol

J/K ... 



I spose schema would still be the best .. cant you have an affair with a schema therapist or something?


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Haha, sure, since affairs are so easy for me to have! :lol

I do have a minor urge to just quit the therapy (and even stronger urge to can this stupid Paxil and cancel contact with the psychiatrist).

I think I've been just as effective working on my own, but I do seem to get some benefit out of the therapist in regards to getting practice being more openly honest than I am with anyone in my family.

I just feel like my therapist doesn't have any sort of plan though, so I think this small benefit is all I can expect out of it with her seeming lack of direction. There's no structure to any sessions, and she doesn't provide me with any new tools or insights. 

Also, I feel somewhat subjugated by both my therapist and psychiatrist, as I sometimes see them more as obligations rather than solutions/helpers. It would be hard for me to stand up and say I don't want to see them anymore. I wonder if they'd LET me?! :lol :sigh


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## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

I dont think I have to understand the complexity of social anxiety or anyother mental disorder. learning how to live, deal, and maybe change some beliefs about myself helped.


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## danielk (Jun 4, 2008)

I have "all of the tools" necessary, and I agree with my psychologist on that point. My problem is _synthesizing_ my knowledge with action!


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## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

ardrum said:


> The only dream I have is having enough money where I wouldn't have to work at all! :lol


Hell, don't we all have that dream...

I also tend to think we have the answers inside ourselves. Sometimes it takes a therapist, friend, or a kick in the *** by life before we unlock them.


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## yeah_yeah_yeah (Mar 27, 2007)

:agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree

:yes :yes :yes :yes :yes :yes 

As you can see, I am enthused


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Hmm...maybe Paxil's kicking of my *** will help me in the long run. I feel like I'm fast approaching depression, but that might give me an incentive to change.


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## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

I'd so much rather think about a problem, consider solutions, and then consider my reluctance to DO the solution, and then think about how I never seem to get past this juncture, and maybe I'm mis-diagnosed, and so on.

I think following a path toward better mental health is a bit like forming a relationship (or a career choice). There are several suitable paths, just like there are various people we might form a good relationship with. Some paths and some people may appear better than others, but none is perfect. We can choose to try and follow the imperfect path or to love the imperfect person perfectly, or we can wait for perfect to come along :no

I say this in the context of doing next to nothing theraputic right now. Definitely thinking way more than doing these days :nw


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

How is your progress with the therapy? I have not seen any updates on this thread unless you have created another thread.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

We seem to be focusing now on the thing that is most bothering me... my job. I get a sense that I'm trapped in my job (or most situations I find myself in), and then I feel as though I can't get out. 

I get the sense that I'm lucky anyone employed me, let alone one that pays me enough to live on my own (and even save money). So I cling to this job as though it were my very life. Speaking of saving money, that's another thing I do...obsessively. 

My one dream is to have enough money where I wouldn't have to work anymore. I wouldn't care if I'd have to live right around the poverty line in my distributions of savings, but once the math is right, I have always planned to stop working (or at least switch to something part-time). For now, at my age, I've tried to save as much as I can to take advantage of compounding interest. I still kick myself for only starting when I was 23.

Anyway, I save so much because I have a hard time imagining that there could be any job out there that I could remotely enjoy (one that doesn't feel like I'm a prisoner). My therapist claims that such a job is out there, but that I close the doors to such consideration due to having horrible experiences trying to get jobs.

She is trying to get me to brainstorm things I would want in a job, and I've been writing out the jobs I've had and writing out what I liked and didn't like about them. 

I'll admit though that I don't find it likely that I will ever enjoy 1/3 of my life (work). So I'll never stop my cheap lifestyle...The less I spend, the sooner I can be free.


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

I laughed out loud when I read your post. I could have written it.



ardrum said:


> We seem to be focusing now on the thing that is most bothering me... my job. I get a sense that I'm trapped in my job (or most situations I find myself in), and then I feel as though I can't get out.


I felt this way through out my career. I would stay for two years at a job and quit because I felt trapped. My friends could not figure out why I quit as I was very good at work and got along well. My managers spoke highly of me.

One of my managers told me I feared conflict. When ambition hits the road there is conflict. I avoid conflict. Thus I was not good at office politics. The longest job I ever held was a consultant for 7 years. (I quit because I was tired of travelling and scared of making presentations). As a consultant, I was at client site for a year or two. I tried to bail out from a client after 18 months. In hindsight, consulting is a series of jobs with one employer. So I have never worked at a site for more than 2 years.

Second, I cannot ask for a raise. If I am rejected I would feel depressed and then I would quit. Peers who were worse than me made more money and it made me mad and so I quit.


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

ardrum said:


> Speaking of saving money, that's another thing I do...obsessively.
> 
> My one dream is to have enough money where I wouldn't have to work anymore. I wouldn't care if I'd have to live right around the poverty line in my distributions of savings, but once the math is right, I have always planned to stop working (or at least switch to something part-time). For now, at my age, I've tried to save as much as I can to take advantage of compounding interest. I still kick myself for only starting when I was 23.
> 
> ...


I save money with obsession. I have no furniture and yet I earn over 100K. I drive a used car. I do not date because it costs money.

But here is the deal. Once I saved enough money to live a cheap lifestyle, my job became fun as I did not need it anymore. I have enough money to live cheaply without working. So I work to avoid being lonely.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

tomcoldaba said:


> ardrum said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of saving money, that's another thing I do...obsessively.
> ...


I envy your salary! I bet I'll never make that much, even considering inflation, for my entire life.

I have 7 shirts I wear to work. I've used them for a full year, rotating. I rotate TWO pairs of pants.

I have never bought a piece of furniture, and I don't buy any sort of thing to decorate my apartment.

I wish I had your salary though (I'm at about a third of that). I wouldn't change my lifestyle at all, but I'd be able to save all of the difference to vastly reduce my WLE (Working Life Expectancy, hehe).

I saved a little over a third of my after-tax income, but it still feels like not nearly enough.

Also, it's nice to hear that once you felt you didn't NEED the job, that you were more satisifed. That's what I want. As of now, I'm a prisoner to this "work" concept. If I don't need it to survive though, maybe I wouldn't feel so subjugated by it.

It's just going to take me forever though since I can't save as much as I'd like to (saved about $10k of about $27k after tax money).


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

ardrum said:


> I have 7 shirts I wear to work. I've used them for a full year, rotating. I rotate TWO pairs of pants.
> 
> I have never bought a piece of furniture, and I don't buy any sort of thing to decorate my apartment.


LOL. I had the same number of shirts and pants. I had 2 pairs of shoes. I do not own a piece of furniture and dont buy stuff to decorate my apartment.

Since I lived a lonely life. I spent all my free time reading up on my work. I taught myself programming. I'm a CPA. I studied tax regulations, federal accounting regulations. Now I make good money because I am highly skilled. Because of my SA I am making over 100k. If I did not have SA, I would make over $300k given my skill set.

If I make give you "free" advice, keep on learning something in your field instead of worrying about a dream job. After a while you become an authority in your field. That is job security IMO. It worked for me.

Good luck.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

I can't stand the legal field though. It's dreadful.


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

I really relate to your original post. Finding out what I like is tricky as panic and pick apart anything I come up with and can only find things I don't like.
I was wondering if a) you're in therapy that will just take a very long time and maybe you need to talk through some of these things. I ended up talking to my therapist when depressed and got a lot of things out in the open which really helped b) you need a new therapist, I've felt up to my current therapist I wasn't dealing with my problems really.
I've ended up going through 7 years of university and now need my first graduate job, which has not happened after a year of looking. I keep alternating between thinking a job would be good, but overwhelmingly panicking that I could ever do a job like that, or that anyone would think I am worth that job. I've got qualifications/skills coming out of my ears, but no confidence in myself.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

shy_chick said:


> I really relate to your original post. Finding out what I like is tricky as panic and pick apart anything I come up with and can only find things I don't like.
> I was wondering if a) you're in therapy that will just take a very long time and maybe you need to talk through some of these things. I ended up talking to my therapist when depressed and got a lot of things out in the open which really helped b) you need a new therapist, I've felt up to my current therapist I wasn't dealing with my problems really.
> I've ended up going through 7 years of university and now need my first graduate job, which has not happened after a year of looking. I keep alternating between thinking a job would be good, but overwhelmingly panicking that I could ever do a job like that, or that anyone would think I am worth that job. I've got qualifications/skills coming out of my ears, but no confidence in myself.


I do think it will take significant time. She has me doing assignments to do outside of sessions to try to get me to start thinking about what it is I want to do.

Then, I share what I write out in the session while she tries to probe a bit. I still get pretty significant walls to keep me from the emotions. I tend to intellectualize a ton in sessions.

I don't think there is a "perfect" career out there for me, but even if I could just feel mildly satisfied and happy with a job (rather than uncomfortable and totally unmotivated), that would be a major improvement.

I've also considered the idea of a new therapist, but at the moment nothing seems to be jumping at me as an option. I wanted a schema therapist, but the nearest one is too far away.

I know what you mean about being qualified on paper but not having those qualifications reflected in your confidence and sense of direction. I always did very well in school (valedictorian of high school, top of my department in college with 3.95), but simply doing well academically doesn't guarantee success by any means. I wish it were that simple.


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

ardrum said:


> I know what you mean about being qualified on paper but not having those qualifications reflected in your confidence and sense of direction. I always did very well in school (valedictorian of high school, top of my department in college with 3.95), but simply doing well academically doesn't guarantee success by any means. I wish it were that simple.


Success depends on good communication skills. With SA, it is hard to communicate because of the fear we feel. If you don't communicate effectively, no matter how smart or well educated you are, you just don't fare well IMO.

Good communication skills helps you to become a good politician. Good politicians end up holding positions of power in government, business and academia.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

tomcoldaba said:


> ardrum said:
> 
> 
> > I know what you mean about being qualified on paper but not having those qualifications reflected in your confidence and sense of direction. I always did very well in school (valedictorian of high school, top of my department in college with 3.95), but simply doing well academically doesn't guarantee success by any means. I wish it were that simple.
> ...


You're right...and every single critique I had in my first annual job evaluation regarded how I needed to improve my communication skills.


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## shy_chick (Sep 27, 2006)

4 out of 7 of my job interviewers said I wouldn't be confident enough with clients and thats why I didn't get the job (technical writing/editing/patent law). It's painful when you know it won't change without lots of therapy. 
I wonder if there is a job/employer where communication is less important, or if faking at interview is enough or I'll be stuck in a poor job forever.


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## tomcoldaba (Jul 1, 2007)

shy_chick said:


> 4 out of 7 of my job interviewers said I wouldn't be confident enough with clients and thats why I didn't get the job (technical writing/editing/patent law). It's painful when you know it won't change without lots of therapy.


Join toastmasters. I belong to 3 clubs. In 9 months, I went from a shy person to a confident speaker. It is hard work but it is something I had to do to overcome my SA. Therapy and Toastmasters will do the trick. I have not tried therapy. Instead I used intensive toastmastering.



shy_chick said:


> I wonder if there is a job/employer where communication is less important, or if faking at interview is enough or I'll be stuck in a poor job forever.


Unfortunately, communication is the key to good jobs. Poor communication skills means stuck in a poor job forever. That has been my experience. I avoided higher paying jobs because of my SA.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Yeah, I cancelled this weekend's appointment and I have no real desire to make any additional appointments.


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## somnath.genius (Aug 11, 2008)

I have been fighting with my fears without medicine for the last 5 years and i will have to keep on fighting with my fears for the rest of my life. Never accept defeat .


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