# Diazepam (Valium) not working for me unless I take a high dose



## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

*Diazepam (Valium) not working for me unless I take a high dose (first time)*

10mg - nothing, a little dizzy
20mg - same thing
30mg - same thing
40mg - anxiety not so bad, managed to have a 10 minutes conversation with my sister which was the most i've spoken to her in years.

should I try alprazolam (xanax) instead?


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

I don't know why I can't edit my post, but anyway:

I waited 2 hours between each dose to make sure it was actually doing anything, anyone with similar experience care to chime in and give me your thoughts?


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## ourwater (Jun 2, 2012)

15 mg was plenty for me for anxiety. I have taken 50 mg because I was also on steroids after surgery, and I kept rolling over on my side in my chair the first night of surgery so when I woke up I stayed up. I decided to put in the movie Akira, reclined back, and fell asleep half way through the movie. When I woke up I was still lying on my back, so it served it's purpose. I asked my plastic surgeon for it because I told him I had anxiety.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

ragnarok said:


> should I try alprazolam (xanax) instead?


Sure, it's worth a try.

Similar to you, I don't find benzos to do much, if anything. I was planning to do an experiment to see how much Xanax it would take for me to feel a true impact where I can be certain it's actually doing anything. Or if a clear effect cannot be achieved at any level (I'd limit myself to one bottle, which for me is 300 mg). I don't suggest anyone try this, so don't blame me if you do.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

Diazepam is probably the most effective drug I take. It has a very long half life, so it will build up your system over days. If you're looking for a benzo to take as needed the alprazolam might be a better bet. I find Diazepam pretty useful for chronic anxiety. Though it's effects don't really noticeably kick in, it just reduces my anxiety. i.e. it's not like a high or a punch in the stomach or some amazing feeling of sociability, mood lifting, etc. Just keeps the anxiety at bay.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

istayhome said:


> Diazepam is probably the most effective drug I take. It has a very long half life, so it will build up your system over days. If you're looking for a benzo to take as needed the alprazolam might be a better bet. I find Diazepam pretty useful for chronic anxiety. Though it's effects don't really noticeably kick in, it just reduces my anxiety. i.e. it's not like a high or a punch in the stomach or some amazing feeling of sociability, mood lifting, etc. Just keeps the anxiety at bay.


I see, so if I keep taking it daily it will 'build up' and start working better?

I took alprazolam once, about 3-4mg, (really underestimated the strength) and then I woke up the next morning with no memory of anything that happened and my mother was furious because she said I was acting drunk out of my mind. Obviously I don't want that, I can get alprazolam again and just take a lower dose, but on the come-down of the alprazolam, I felt at such peace. It was like a weight had been lifted from my entire being, I no longer felt anxious, scared, it was the best feeling in the world. I just don't really get that on the amount of diazepam I took yesterday which was pretty surprising because I thought that 0.5 alprazolam = 10mg diazepam.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Again I can't edit my post (damnit, why!)

But anyway I can't find any clear answers on this via google because there's so much misinformation out there I just don't know what to believe, so a couple things:

How long does it take valium to kick in and start feeling the effect?
How long do the effects last? I'm not talking about how long until the drug is completely gone from your system from any drug tests, just how long the effects will last.

Same questions regarding alprazolam (Xanax)

Thanks again everyone you've been helpful.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Also, sorry to triple post.. but should I just be swalling these things whole with water, crushing them up first (I tried one like that, it tasted like ****) or let it dissolve under my tongue, or even stick it up my anus. Does it really make a difference?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

ragnarok said:


> Also, sorry to triple post.. but should I just be swalling these things whole with water, crushing them up first (I tried one like that, it tasted like ****) or let it dissolve under my tongue, or even stick it up my anus. Does it really make a difference?


In a decade of using Xanax I've never tried the rectal method; I'd say stick it in the other end.

Being an immediate release pill, it doesn't matter if you crush it. Though given how Xanax tastes I can't imagine why anyone would want to. The only time I "crush" Xanax is when I'm out and no beverage is readily available. Then I simply pop one in my mouth and chew. I've done that so many times I've gotten so used to the taste it doesn't much bother me any more. Though I don't imagine anybody would find it a tasty treat.

Some will argue that putting a benzos under your tongue works faster, though Xanax wasn't made to be used that way & all you end up with is a mouthful of chalky residue that you end up swallowing anyhow. And you get to enjoy the unique flavor of Xanax that way too, so I'm thinking you'd prefer to avoid it.


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## Recipe For Disaster (Jun 8, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> Sure, it's worth a try.
> 
> Similar to you, I don't find benzos to do much, if anything. I was planning to do an experiment to see how much Xanax it would take for me to feel a true impact where I can be certain it's actually doing anything. Or if a clear effect cannot be achieved at any level (I'd limit myself to one bottle, which for me is 300 mg). I don't suggest anyone try this, so don't blame me if you do.


And this is why your stance on Ashton is so ridiculous. If you dont think benzos are a miracle cure for anxiety, why would you go to such great lengths to defend them when you yourself admit they can be very harmful? Remember, I am not a prohibitionist. I am in favor of you being able to have whatever drug you wanted. I just think that if you could get your hands on whatever drug you wanted, you would throw your benzos in the trash and take something that is both more effective and less dependence inducing.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Don't derail my thread guys 

what about the other 2 posts above the one you answered? (and thanks for that) I still need answers!

Also remember, this is diazepam (valium) i've got right now. I *know* alprazolam (xanax) works fine for me.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

don36 said:


> I used to take HUGE amounts of Xanax though


I'd be very curious to know what HUGE is in terms of mgs?

One man's huge is another man's small. My script is for up to 10mg a day, an amount I actually used at one time. (Yes, I'm talking about Xanax and that really is a TEN, not a typo where a decimal place was missed. As in 5 bars of the highest dosage size Xanax comes in daily.)

I used 4 mg Saturday, 6 mg Friday, and 4 mg Thursday for example. I have no set schedule, just taking it as I feel the need.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Just reposting this (with edits, hooray I can edit now!) incase it gets lost in the thread.

I can't find any clear answers on this via google because there's so much misinformation out there I just don't know what to believe, so a couple things:

- How long does it take valium to kick in and start feeling the effect? Some people say 10 minutes - 30mins, but wikipedia says 1-1.5hours. I'm 5'7" and about 160lbs, taken an an empty stomach.

- How long do the effects last? I was told that diazepam lasts longer than alprazolam, so really I need to know about diazepam not alprazolam or any other pharmaceuticals. 
I'm not talking about how long until the drug is completely gone from your system from any drug tests, just how long the effects will last.

I actually took 4 (10mg) at once this morning and I can feel the effects much better than when I waited 1-2hours between each dose yesterday, could that be a factor? Should I be taking them all at once rather than spread out?

-------------
Same questions regarding alprazolam (Xanax) but isn't as important since I don't have any right now.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

don36 said:


> Valium has a longer half-life - not exactly sure whether this effects the length of time it actually has a noticeable effect or just how long it stays in your system


Yeah, exactly, this is all I can find when I google the information.



> As far as taking more all at once - this will definitely give you a much more noticeable effect.


Good to know. But I don't really want to have to drop 4x 10mg pills 3 times a day. I suppose it's possible my pills aren't that good, or maybe i'm just naturally more tolerant? (can you become tolerant to anxiolytics?)

Or maybe i'm just comparing it to the euphoric feeling I had after taking alprazolam for the first time.

I'll wait for more replies of course anyway.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Recipe For Disaster said:


> And this is why your stance on Ashton is so ridiculous. If you dont think benzos are a miracle cure for anxiety, why would you go to such great lengths to defend them when you yourself admit they can be very harmful?


Where did I say they can be "very harmful"? The potential harm of benzos is greatly exaggerated in many cases.



Recipe For Disaster said:


> emember, I am not a prohibitionist. I am in favor of you being able to have whatever drug you wanted. *I just think that if you could get your hands on whatever drug you wanted, you would throw your benzos in the trash* and take something that is both more effective and less dependence inducing.


You got that right. More effective is my #1 concern. Dependency is a distant issue on my list. I'd gladly take a truly effective drug even if it meant a dependency so extreme that there was no going back, with use of the drug not being possible to stop till death.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Can someone explain why being addicted to benzos is even a bad thing? That's like saying someone with another medical condition like chronic pain is addicted to painkillers - if it's what helps them get through the day, and they have an unlimited supply of it, why does it matter?

To me, addiction only matters when the person is on hard drugs (heroin?) or something and it's ruining their life, stealing **** to pay for their next "fix" etc, so what's wrong if you have easy access to the drug at all times?

Sure, i'll want to come off it eventually if (when) I do get addicted, but at least for the next few years i'm going to use these wonderful drugs to give me the life I deserve. I'm 24 and after that first alprazolam I felt like I could be myself for the first time in all those years - i'm not about to just give up on that.

Still looking for some answers on these though just to keep them relevant. Sorry if someone answered one already I didn't see anything:


> - How long does it take valium to kick in and start feeling the effect? Some people say 10 minutes - 30mins, but wikipedia says 1-1.5hours. I'm 5'7" and about 160lbs, taken an an empty stomach.
> 
> - How long do the effects last? I was told that diazepam lasts longer than alprazolam, so really I need to know about diazepam not alprazolam or any other pharmaceuticals.
> I'm not talking about how long until the drug is completely gone from your system from any drug tests, just how long the effects will last.
> ...


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## reef88 (Mar 5, 2012)

I am the same with Clonazepam. I have to take 10mg or more to feel it properly.


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

ragnarok said:


> Just reposting this (with edits, hooray I can edit now!) incase it gets lost in the thread.
> 
> I can't find any clear answers on this via google because there's so much misinformation out there I just don't know what to believe, so a couple things:
> 
> ...


To answer your questions from my experience, having taken Diazepam and Alprazolam for a couple years.

Diazepam: I take 10 mg, 3 times a day. The onset seems to take about 40 minutes. The peak is in about 2 hours and the effects are noticeable for about 16 hours. Since I take it evenly spaced out throughout the day every day, for me it's just a preventative to the otherwise crippling General and Social anxiety I would experience. As far as taking all at once vs. spreading out. I spread them out because I'm not trying to feel the acute effect of a benzo. I'm trying to prevent inter-dose withdrawals (which don't really happen with valium because it lasts so long) and to keep all of the anxiety at bay so I can actually do things. Maybe the first time I took valium I "felt" something, After that I would need to take 50+ mg to "feel" that same sensation. The point is not to feel something, it makes it so you don't feel as anxious. Valium makes it so I can go about my normal day without feeling that otherwise crippling anxiety that would keep me locked in my room. But it doesn't make me feel euphoric or any more social or anything other than just calming the anxiety to the point where life is manageable.

Don't take a benzo with the expectation of feeling something. The first couple times you take it you'll notice a pleasant difference of feeling less anxiety but after that you'll just get used to that feeling.

As for dose. It may be that you simply require more of it than someone else to get suitable effects. I am on 30 mg diazepam and 5 mg alprazolam a day. Most new psychiatrists I see act shocked at these "high" amounts but I've been on the same dose for two years and it's what I need. Lower doses simply were not enough to make a difference. Brain chemistry most likely.

Alprazolam: Again, onset seems to be within 40 minutes, peak is in about 2 hours and noticeable effects seem to be around 6 hours.

That's just my experience. You may metabolize them slower/quicker, etc.

I hope that helps. People generally like that more noticeable effect of xanax but I really prefer the more constant, stable effect of valium. Having xanax is great for panic attacks, anticipatory anxiety, or insomnia. That's why I have both.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

ragnarok said:


> Can someone explain why being addicted to benzos is even a bad thing? That's like saying someone with another medical condition like chronic pain is addicted to painkillers - if it's what helps them get through the day, and they have an unlimited supply of it, why does it matter?
> 
> To me, addiction only matters when the person is on hard drugs (heroin?)...


I'd note that heroin is diacetylmorphine -- which Bayer branded & sold as Heroin. It's just a slightly modified version of morphine, not substantively different from other potent opioids.

Now back on track: dependency is the fully expected outcome of long-term benzo use, especially at high dosages. Same as chronic pain patients taking opioids daily.

Almost without exception, benzo horror stories which abound online have one common element: "I had no idea this innocent looking pill could result in addiction (dependency)." One should be made aware of this & make an informed choice on if they wish to use them or not. I'd say the same of any drugs.

Benzos have one special characteristic. Stopping cold turkey, especially from a high dose, can produce seizures -- which can be fatal. Same is true of alcohol. I must say that I'm not aware of any specific case where anybody has died in this manner. If a doctor cut off one's benzo supply abruptly resulting in death that would seem to be a huge malpractice suit.

Withdrawal from heroin won't by itself kill anyone, except indirectly if it pushes them to suicide. They'll feel so terrible they may wish to die, but by itself it won't result in death.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks for the posts everyone, really helpful.

I'm going to the doctors in 3 hours (the same one that has been dosing me with useless SSRI's the past few years) and i'm going to tell him i've been taking benzos for months now and that they really helped, but now my mother found my stash and flushed it because "I didn't have a prescription", and since they're not allowed to let patients go "cold turkey" because of the whole siezure thing and malpractice thing, do you think he'd prescribe me some?

(This is in the UK, where doctors seem to think benzos are the devil incarnate and wouldn't prescribe them if your life depended on it - mine does!)


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## istayhome (Apr 4, 2012)

I personally would never tell a doctor about illegal prescription drug use if you want them to trust you with said prescription drugs. They will think you are a drug seeker. In your situation in the UK, if you told the doctor that, it is far more likely that they would send you to a detox facility rather than prescribe you more drugs which you admit to abusing. Not a good idea if you want to be prescribed benzos.

It's a rough game but to do it right you have to stick to the lame medi-go-round. Tell the doctor how bad your anxiety is and how your previous treatments have failed you. If your doctor is unreasonable, find a better one.


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## metamorphosis (Dec 18, 2008)

Here we go with another benzodiazepine issue. Its pretty easy there is a comparison chart and if it's not right for you...........Don't take it, yo

http://www.psychresidentonline.com/Benzodiazepine Comparison.htm


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

istayhome said:


> I personally would never tell a doctor about illegal prescription drug use if you want them to trust you with said prescription drugs. They will think you are a drug seeker. In your situation in the UK, if you told the doctor that, it is far more likely that they would send you to a detox facility rather than prescribe you more drugs which you admit to abusing. Not a good idea if you want to be prescribed benzos.
> 
> It's a rough game but to do it right you have to stick to the lame medi-go-round. Tell the doctor how bad your anxiety is and how your previous treatments have failed you. If your doctor is unreasonable, find a better one.


Well as I say, I know this doctor i've been seeing him for years, I think I can convince him that this is what's best for me, after all, doctors are there to serve YOU, only you know what your mind is feeling like, they can try to diagnose it, but only you know how you truly feel.

I've been to this doctor for a few years now about my anxiety so it's not like he thinks i'm some walk-in off the street looking for a quick benzo fix, he's had me on SSRIs and CBT, none of which worked, this is my last resort. If he doesnt give me any, then so be it, i'll buy more illegally online and self medicate, then when it comes time to give them up I can go to him and ask for advice and help (that's what they're for, surprise)

Anyway, i'm going to uni in 3 months and I feel like this is the only way I can cope, I tried last year and had to leave home after 1 week because it was far too much for me to handle being around so many young people all the time with my terrible social skills (i'm a hermit).

Anyway, based on what i've said what do you think?


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

istayhome said:


> I personally would never tell a doctor about illegal prescription drug use if you want them to trust you with said prescription drugs. They will think you are a drug seeker.


I hope everyone sees the irony & total illogic in this manner of thinking by doctors. Honest patients get punished for being honest, causing many a patient lie their *** off.

Optimal treatment would seem to come from an open & honest relationship of trust between doctor & patient, with both working together as partners in health. As opposed to an adversarial relationship where anything you say can & will be used against you.

-Doc: "Do you consume alcohol?"
-Patient: "Never." -- such could be said by both a teetotaler or a guy who drinks till passing out every night.

Some questions don't even require outright lying:

-Doc: "Do you use any street drugs?"
-Patient: "I don't even use pot" ('cause I'm too busy snorting coke)


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Well, I just got back from my doctors, I took 60mg valium a few hours before to relieve my anxiety about the whole thing and I was able to talk to my doctor for about 20mins-half an hour (maybe longer I dunno) about my whole anxiety situation and that these are the only things that thelp, how i'm not going to stop acquiring them illegally etc but he siad he wouldn't prescribe me anything and would talk to another doctor at the practice who is more specializied in these things about my situation and call me on wednesday. i'm not hopeful. looks like I might have to keep buying my meds illegally just to feel normal. sucks.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

ragnarok said:


> Well, I just got back from my doctors, I took 60mg valium a few hours before to relieve my anxiety about the whole thing and I was able to talk to my doctor for about 20mins-half an hour (maybe longer I dunno) about my whole anxiety situation and that these are the only things that thelp, how i'm not going to stop acquiring them illegally etc but he siad he wouldn't prescribe me anything and would talk to another doctor at the practice who is more specializied in these things about my situation and call me on wednesday. i'm not hopeful. looks like I might have to keep buying my meds illegally just to feel normal. sucks.


Sorry to hear about the unsucessful outcome, though I'm not at all surprised. Many docs are anti-benzo, and in the UK benzo use means you get 2 weeks of a dinky dose of Valium if you're lucky. The only folks in the UK who get benzos for anxiety have a title such as "Sir" preceding their name.

Well, I suppose sufficient wealth will get one a willing private doctor even if you haven't been nighted by her Majesty. I suspect when Ozzy is feeling bad, he can find a doc who is ever so happy to make a house call to his UK estate & is most cooperative saying "What would you like for me to prescribe, Mr. Osbourne?" When a big check is waiting, a private doc I'm sure knows how to say "Yes, Sir!"

As for you, you're screwed. I certainly have sympathy for you since I know all to well the kind of crap patients have to put up with, as I've experienced it myself. Though I've had a 10 mg per day Xanax script since 2004 (in 2003 it started out as an 8 mg script). Unfortunately, benzos have never done much for me. I thought a larger amount would do it as 40 mg Valium (equivalent to 4 mg Xanax) was the most my GP was willing to go. Well, more never did the job.

I've suggested meprobamate (wildly popular back in the 1950s) & phenobarbital as things to try. My pdoc rejects such ideas even though Dr. Expert can't come up with anything that works. Not like my ideas could fail any worse than the useless crap he gives me. Tomorrow I have to call to tell him how SSRI #6 is a total f'ing failure. I'm going to get to enjoy discussing sexual function including orgasm (or lack thereof) with Barb, his receptionist. I intend to put it bluntly: I like orgasm & Celexa takes away my ability to have them, thus I'm extremely dissatisfied with it.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

UltraShy said:


> Sorry to hear about the unsucessful outcome, though I'm not at all surprised. Many docs are anti-benzo, and in the UK benzo use means you get 2 weeks of a dinky dose of Valium if you're lucky.
> 
> I've suggested meprobamate (wildly popular back in the 1950s) & phenobarbital as things to try. My pdoc rejects such ideas even though Dr. Expert can't come up with anything that works. Not like my ideas could fail any worse than the useless crap he gives me. Tomorrow I have to call to tell him how SSRI #6 is a total f'ing failure. I'm going to get to enjoy discussing sexual function including orgasm (or lack thereof) with Barb, his receptionist. I intend to put it bluntly: I like orgasm & Celexa takes away my ability to have them, thus I'm extremely dissatisfied with it.


Thanks, and yeah, the other day I went to see another doctor (not my normal one) and told him the same thing only it took about 5 minutes, he gave me seven 3mg diazepam. Even if I took all of those at once it wouldn't do anything for me, is it not possible for people to have different tolerance levels even when starting out?

Anyway, i'm not screwed because I can purchase legit benzos online for pretty cheap, it's just retarded that I have to *BREAK THE LAW* in order to feel like a normal person. It boggles the mind.


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## Konami (Jul 5, 2011)

ragnarok said:


> Again I can't edit my post (damnit, why!)
> 
> But anyway I can't find any clear answers on this via google because there's so much misinformation out there I just don't know what to believe, so a couple things:
> 
> ...


if your anxiety is sooooo severe then i think you should try Oxy(the original 8mg pill from a licensed pharmacy not from the street )now...if you get it do not take more than 8mg cuz your heart could slow down and stop.


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## ourwater (Jun 2, 2012)

konamitech said:


> if your anxiety is sooooo severe then i think you should try Oxy(the original 8mg pill from a licensed pharmacy not from the street )now...if you get it do not take more than 8mg cuz your heart could slow down and stop.


Inderal overdose would be a painless death, my heart would stop. Opiate overdoses cause your respiratory to shut down before your heart stops, that would be painful.


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## ragnarok (Jun 10, 2012)

Well, my doctor called me today and said he spoke with another doctor in the facility who specializes in these kinds of things and she agreed with him - I made an impassioned plea to my doctor and he suggested that I see this other doctor face to face and explain the situation, i've written down most of my thoughts on the matter and what i'm going to say so I don't forget, but it's not until the 18th.

Since this doctor specializes in this kinda thing, i'm not very hopeful AT ALL, but i'm going to mention things like how I almost committed suicide after being at freshers week in uni after 1 week before I went home last year, because I just couldn't cope with the anxiety and anguish and how this is the only thing that makes me feel normal.

I've been taking these things for the past 1-2 weeks now, and I feel like my life has improved at least 300%. I have actually gone outside my house multiple times, to the shops, to the park, when I was in the waiting room at the doctors, I didn't give a **** about anything, usually I feel like all eyes are on me and people are watching my every move, but I just... didn't care. I was so chill. It's the same with anyone I interact with while on valium/xanax and I just wish the beurocrats in the UK wouldn't have made it so hard to get a hold of. If I had obtained this last year before going to university, I could have stayed there, be there now, made a group of friends, maybe even had a relationship of two (single, virgin, never kissed a girl) but because I have to break the law just to be able to function like a normal person pisses me off so much.

Sorry for the rant, i'll update you guys on the 18th on how it goes, or just reply to any posts since then.

Thanks for reading.


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