# Dating - Women vs. Men



## Steven G. (May 18, 2006)

I don't know if this has been posted before, but it's been on my mind for awhile...

Do social anxiety women have it easier then men when it comes to dating? I think they do. I think a guy would be much more understanding of a women with socoal anxiety. He would help her, he would comfort her.

But a man? I think most confident women would see a man with social anxiety as a loser, freak, wierdo. They don't wonna be around you, they don't even want you to look at them. Most guys know that women can be "really" mean sometimes. This is why alot of guys are scared to ask girls out. This is why alot of guys act as if women are not even human. Becuase it seems like they are always judging you, becuase your not being a "man".

I think both confident and SA women want a strong confident man. Really, how many SA women here wants a man as scared as you are? You want someone you can hold on to becuase your scared, right?

Disagree or agree. This is just something I been thinking about in my mind...


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

Steven G. said:


> You want someone you can hold on to becuase your scared, right?


No.


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## Steven G. (May 18, 2006)

Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> [quote="Steven G.":ff063]You want someone you can hold on to becuase your scared, right?


No.[/quote:ff063]

Sorry Drella. Did that up set you? Anytime someone replys with a simple "No" they must be mad. :hide


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I believe so, just for the simple fact a man is traditionally is the initiator and that is still expected in many situations for the man to make the first moves. 

The whole 'bad boy' or 'super confident' appeal has been discussed and argued before. IMO women put a higher priority in confidence when looking for a mate than men. But I won't touch the bady boy label.


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## Catarina (May 3, 2006)

Steven G. said:


> You want someone you can hold on to becuase your scared, right?


:lol 
Not quite. That's such a typical way of thinking for a guy.

I do believe there are more expectations on guys when it comes to dating. First you have to get brave enough to even ask the girl out, or at least make the first move. Which is where I'd have the hardest time, if I were a guy. Not that girls can't ask guys out, but for the most part it's still considered the guy's role.

Oh, and women are mostly just mean to other women. I judge other girls all the time, because I see them as competition. I rarely judge guys though. And all the insecurities guys may feel - trying to live up to expectations and impress others - us women feel too, so we're pretty much equal in that area.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

Steven G. said:


> [quote="Drella's_Rock_Follies":f7bc4][quote="Steven G.":f7bc4]You want someone you can hold on to becuase your scared, right?


No.[/quote:f7bc4]

Sorry Drella. Did that up set you? Anytime someone replys with a simple "No" they must be mad. :hide[/quote:f7bc4]
No, I'm not mad at all. I didn't mean to sound like I was. I was simply stating that it's not something I look for in a potential partner. I don't need anyone to hold me because I feel frightened. I can handle myself. I want someone cynical and self-loathing to brood with.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Drella's_Rock_Follies said:


> I want someone cynical and self-loathing to brood with.


Yay! Cynical and self-loathing! :banana

You are joking...right?


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> [quote="Drella's_Rock_Follies":bc7c5]I want someone cynical and self-loathing to brood with.


Yay! Cynical and self-loathing! :banana

You are joking...right?[/quote:bc7c5]

now she knows you arent cynical. the banana smiley gave it away.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I was being sarcastic was curious if she was as well. I'm unable to read between the lines.


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

sarcasm and message boards rarely go well with each other. no,seriously! i mean it


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

I guess I should put </sarcasm> in there, but I was hoping banana man gave it away.


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

im just laughing at the thought of a scared man being held by his confident girl...making him feel temporarily safe


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

*pictures a 220 pound man being held by 115 pound girlfriend and crying*

:loL: I'm going to hell for sure.


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

thats basically what popped into my head when i read this thread, and its still funny now.


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

Steven G. said:


> I think most confident women would see a man with social anxiety as a loser, freak, wierdo. They don't wonna be around you, they don't even want you to look at them.


duuuuuuuuh... thats why we rarely go out in public and never make eye contact with females

^^^^*sarcasm with hint of truth*


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## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

> Oh, and women are mostly just mean to other women. I judge other girls all the time, because I see them as competition. I rarely judge guys though. And all the insecurities guys may feel - trying to live up to expectations and impress others - us women feel too, so we're pretty much equal in that area.


I hear women make fun of guys or comment on guys all the time in a negative manner. But at the same time there are guys that do the same thing examples "she walks funny", "she's flat", "she's fat", "she's anorexic skinny", "she's got no*ss", "she's a ho" etc. I don't do it but if guys are doing it why shouldn't women be allowed to do the same. I take that back I have talked about women but it's britany spears, christina aguilera and others that I believe are bad role models.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Men say that half *** joking around with their buddies, women are mean to other women because they see them as competition. 

There are advantages to being women in relationships but I do agree that women tend to be kind of "catty" and unusually cruel to each other when they get jealous. It seems quite immature but I have seen this even in women in their 30's. Though age isn't the best measure of maturity.


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## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

> Men say that half *** joking around with their buddies, women are mean to other women because they see them as competition.


I guess that's true. Maybe it's a protection thing that guys put up. I'm sure most of them would deal with whatever issue they came across with a girl. If they actually got somewhere with a girl they talked negatively about they'd have some excuse for why they went after her; I won't list any specific ones but usually it's something to the extent that she made up for it in other ways.


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## Ghost (Nov 17, 2003)

Steven G. said:


> I don't know if this has been posted before, but it's been on my mind for awhile...
> 
> Do social anxiety women have it easier then men when it comes to dating? I think they do. I think a guy would be much more understanding of a women with socoal anxiety. He would help her, he would comfort her.
> 
> ...


I agree, women want a man with confidence.
A male with social anxiety can look like a model and have problems with dating women.
A woman with social anxiety that looks like a model attracts men and men want to get to know them.
A man is supposed to be a fearless knight in shining armor while women "alot of the time" just have to look nice.
A socially anxious male is almost poop out of luck in gaining a romantic relationship with a woman unless he somehow finds the inner strength to change himself for the better.


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> women tend to be kind of "catty" and unusually cruel to each other when they get jealous. It seems quite immature but I have seen this even in women in their 30's.


yea, guys mostly make physical comments about girls, and pretty much dont pick on other guys (at least once you are out of highschool)

But women.... unusually cruel is a perfect description of how they can get. They dont stop at making a joke at someones expense, I've witnessed girls trying to really cause mental anguish to people, male and female.

ps, im not talking about "you", the woman reading this post...im talking about other women :b


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

Prodigal_Son said:


> women are mean to other women because they see them as competition.


Well thank you for clearing that up! :doh


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## instil (Aug 19, 2005)

hahahaha

although that was painfully obvious to you, dont forget that it is a guy that said that. To him, that might have been a great insight and breakthrough into the psychology of women.

We're trying hard to understand you women.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

archaic said:


> Prodigal_Son said:
> 
> 
> > women are mean to other women because they see them as competition.
> ...


No problem, I'm glad I could clear things up for you.


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## dez (Jun 25, 2005)

Steven G. said:


> Do social anxiety women have it easier then men when it comes to dating? I think they do. I think a guy would be much more understanding of a women with socoal anxiety. He would help her, he would comfort her.


Um, in general I don't believe a guy would be any more understanding than a girl would be when dating a social phobic. It varies per situation.



Steven G. said:


> But a man? I think most confident women would see a man with social anxiety as a loser, freak, wierdo. They don't wonna be around you, they don't even want you to look at them. Most guys know that women can be "really" mean sometimes. This is why alot of guys are scared to ask girls out. This is why alot of guys act as if women are not even human. Becuase it seems like they are always judging you, becuase your not being a "man".


 Yeah, many confident women seem to exhibit this behavior. Confident males can be just as mean, though. I've had experiences where guys would approach me and in a conversation would be rude if I came off as too quiet or anxious, eventually moving on to someone else.



Steven G. said:


> I think both confident and SA women want a strong confident man. Really, how many SA women here wants a man as scared as you are? You want someone you can hold on to becuase your scared, right?


 ....
My preferance is actually dating shy guys although I'd see either type. I must be a freak or an alien or something that doesn't fit into this class of women... I've seen so many comments like this on the forum... :bah



Ghost said:


> A man is supposed to be a fearless knight in shining armor while women "alot of the time" just have to look nice.


So cliche but it's true in this society. If you're not the fearless knight or the beautiful damsel then you're screwed.



Prodigal_Son said:


> women are mean to other women because they see them as competition.


No wonder I have no female friends... :lol


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## ShesKrayZ (May 9, 2006)

SA guys tend to have a really skewed view of the way women think. Women are people. They think like people. Some people are kind, compassionate and generous. Some are open-minded and accepting. Some are narrow-minded, hateful and cruel. I can't tell you what the girl who lives next to you is thinking, I don't know her. Maybe a big part of the problem is SA people tend to seek out people to reinforce what they already believe. If you think you are an ugly stupid incompetent loser, the only people you believe are the ones who tell you that you are an ugly stupid incompetent loser. All other input must be a lie or about someone else or just mistaken.


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## medea (May 6, 2006)

All I know is that a guy can spot a needy, insecure girl almost immediately and most don't want to seriously date someone like that. My experience as a SA girl is that you get fed a bunch of lines and promises until you fall hard enough to **** him then you get dumped for a girl who is more fun. If you're lucky the guy doesn't make fun of you with all his friends about how pathetic you are.


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## tewstroke (Feb 18, 2006)

ShesKrayZ said:


> SA guys tend to have a really skewed view of the way women think. Women are people. They think like people. Some people are kind, compassionate and generous. Some are open-minded and accepting. Some are narrow-minded, hateful and cruel. I can't tell you what the girl who lives next to you is thinking, I don't know her. Maybe a big part of the problem is SA people tend to seek out people to reinforce what they already believe. If you think you are an ugly stupid incompetent loser, the only people you believe are the ones who tell you that you are an ugly stupid incompetent loser. All other input must be a lie or about someone else or just mistaken.


 :ditto Please people stop the generalizations. And about the whole "catty" thing it doesn't just occur in one sex, there are "catty" men too.


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## DeusExMachina (Jun 11, 2006)

Yeah, I think that women have it "easier" as far as that stuff goes. 

The man is generally expected to be the one who initiates contact, to make the first approach. This is less expected of women. Sometimes they do but for the most part it's expected of the man. 

So women with SA often don't have to do much...other non-SA males will approach. But for a guy with SA it's not often the other way around...and approaching women can be one of the harder things for someone with this condition.


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

tewstroke said:


> :ditto Please people stop the generalizations. And about the whole "catty" thing it doesn't just occur in one sex, there are "catty" men too.


Just not near as often to the point that they pretty much don't exist, well at least with straight men.


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## tewstroke (Feb 18, 2006)

Prodigal_Son said:


> tewstroke said:
> 
> 
> > :ditto Please people stop the generalizations. And about the whole "catty" thing it doesn't just occur in one sex, there are "catty" men too.
> ...


NO to that point. It's just that it is much more suttle. Men size up other men like women do all the time.


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## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

medea said:


> All I know is that a guy can spot a needy, insecure girl almost immediately and most don't want to seriously date someone like that.


 :agree

Where are all the women on SAS? I'm surprised there aren't more posts here describing how horrible it really is to be a socially anxious female. I agree it is more socially acceptable for a woman to be shy than a man, but it is totally NOT easier for a shy woman to date. If it were true that shy girls have it easier, than guys might actually appreciate me, and I might actually have some dating experience under my belt (pun intended). But nope......I am a very shy woman, and at the age of 23, I have never had a boyfriend. And I certainly don't have guys approaching me who are interested.

Hasn't anyone ever made any observations in school, at work, or in public places? Obviously, the flirty, confident girls get more guys than the shy ones. I usually don't hear men say, "My dream girl is someone who doesn't have any friends, is difficult to hold a conversation with, is afraid to return my calls, and will take forever to let her guard down and trust me."

And if anyone out there sincerely wants a girl like that, I admire your humanitarianism.

I agree it is true that the man is generally expected to make the first move...but do you know what is just as worse? Waiting for a guy to make the first move! It really sucks to see men approaching confident women, and ignoring me. And apparently, I am lacking in magnetism, and deviod of social skills, because when I try to initiate a friendly conversation with a man, they seem a little creeped out and turn their attention to a more charming girl.


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## GraceLikeRain (Nov 9, 2003)

whiteclouds said:


> Where are all the women on SAS?


*Waves* I never know what to say in these threads...other people say it better, anyway.



whiteclouds said:


> Obviously, the flirty, confident girls get more guys than the shy ones. I usually don't hear men say, "My dream girl is someone who doesn't have any friends, is difficult to hold a conversation with, is afraid to return my calls, and will take forever to let her guard down and trust me."


Exactly


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## Prodigal Son (Dec 11, 2005)

Two people with SA don't hook up because the anxiety causes them not to make the first move. Sorry, as much as I'd like to blame women, men w/SA just have to step up and be a man. The burden is on us and it sucks but getting rejected isn't so bad...when you are drunk.


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## noregrets (May 4, 2006)

I say online personals are the way to go for a girl with SA. Sure, you get a freakin' lot of rejections because guys don't want the "insecure, needy" girl... and that can be a huge blow to an already low self-esteem. But eventually it's possible to find an insecure and needy guy who doesn't mind. I think it's easier for a girl than a guy because there are vastly more guys than girls on these sites. 

That's just the cumulative experience of the few guys and girls I've known who've tried it... your experience may vary.


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## Ghost (Nov 17, 2003)

noregrets said:


> I say online personals are the way to go for a girl with SA. Sure, you get a freakin' lot of rejections because guys don't want the "insecure, needy" girl... and that can be a huge blow to an already low self-esteem. But eventually it's possible to find an insecure and needy guy who doesn't mind. I think it's easier for a girl than a guy because there are vastly more guys than girls on these sites.
> 
> That's just the cumulative experience of the few guys and girls I've known who've tried it... your experience may vary.


 :agree


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## scairy (Sep 18, 2005)

whiteclouds said:


> medea said:
> 
> 
> > All I know is that a guy can spot a needy, insecure girl almost immediately and most don't want to seriously date someone like that.
> ...


I don't know I kind of see it as cute. The thing is hearing you say it makes it this way but perceiving the actions through my eyes I'd probably think you were grossed out by me and not even attempt it. That's the problem I believe. It doesn't have to do with your anxiety or shyness as much as the tendency for it to be misconstrued. The confident women appear more friendly and are seen as wanting attention from guys.


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## matt404 (Feb 8, 2006)

scairy said:


> whiteclouds said:
> 
> 
> > medea said:
> ...


I agree. "flirty, confident girls" tend to annoy me; I like shy, reserved girls. However, I'd be unlikely to actually hold a conversation with a shy girl because I'd interpret her shyness as disinterest (I'm constantly looking for signs of disinterest any time I'm within 50 feet of a girl). Regarding your initiation of conversations whiteclouds, I don't know how many times you've done it or under what circumstances, but maybe you just got unlucky and got some superficial guys (there are a lot of them). I'm pretty sure I saw your picture in the Member Photos forum and you're definitely _not_ unattractive!

As to the original topic, I do think it is _in general_ easier for girls with SA. Even if you've never had anyone, at least there's always the possibility that some guy will eventually approach you. With guys, unless they get over their fears and approach some girl, and also somehow manage to be decently charming, they have pretty low prospects.


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## biz_e (Nov 21, 2005)

It's not at all easier for girls. I have almost run out of fingers for the number of times I reckon I've been dumped for seeming disinterested, boring, needy and insecure. I'm shy in a way but I do something even more irritating - I often talk crap and act like an arse, rather than shutting up and saying nothing. Or I just agree with everyone robot fashion.

Either way - when I'm shy or when I put on this other persona - I'm evidently extremely unattractive and unapproachable. I wouldn't mind if I was dull and distinterested but I'm not.

But I do like confident, outgoing blokes. I guess I hope they'll drag me out of my shell or something.


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## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

> I'm pretty sure I saw your picture in the Member Photos forum and you're definitely _not_ unattractive!


Thank you. 



> As to the original topic, I do think it is _in general_ easier for girls with SA. Even if you've never had anyone, at least there's always the possibility that some guy will eventually approach you.


Yes that's true, assuming the girl leaves the house. :lol :hide


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## whiteclouds (Mar 18, 2004)

To respond to this thread in general, I don't think girls have it easier than boys. People sometimes assume that as long as you have a vagina, there will always be a guy (or guys) interested in you...that simply being female is the only requirement to secure a chance at a date. In reality, some females are more desireable than others in looks or personality...just like how some men are more desireable than others. And the desireable ones (both male and female) tend to get picked over, leaving the rest of us to struggle for companionship.


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## archaic (Jan 16, 2006)

Right on, whiteclouds!


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## Paul (Sep 26, 2005)

Prodigal_Son said:


> Sorry, as much as I'd like to blame women, men w/SA just have to step up and be a man.


Every time someone says something about being a _man_, which is quite often, I expect a knock on the door which will cart me off for an involuntary gender change operation. The world can't stop reminding me that because I don't wish to act in certain ways that I usually consider stupid, or in this case just consider impossibly assertive, I'm not allowed to keep the gender I was born as. Talk of "manly" things and the "be a man" phrase gets on my nerves. Interestingly, it manages to insult both men and women at once.

Anyhow, as far as the rest of the topic, it's largely pointless to argue that one gender or the other has things easier. Circumstances are unique to individuals.


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## dianac (Feb 11, 2006)

Paul said:


> Prodigal_Son said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, as much as I'd like to blame women, men w/SA just have to step up and be a man.
> ...


I agree. We are all individuals. 
I'd say that both have it hard if you have SA. Especially when you feel as though you have to behave in an expected role. I am a female so I have to do it this way or I am male so I have to do it the other way. We get stuck trying to act the way we think we are supposed to act rather than what feels right for us as an individual and then feel worse for trying (or not trying) and usually failing.


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## silentbutdeadly (May 28, 2005)

Steven G. said:


> Most guys know that women can be "really" mean sometimes. This is why alot of guys are scared to ask girls out. This is why alot of guys act as if women are not even human. Becuase it seems like they are always judging you


so true i couldnt have said it better


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## SAgirl (Nov 15, 2003)

Yes, I think that I am scared of everyone else in the world. I like to feel safe in a guy's arms, yet this never makes my sa better or myself more confident. I have the same sa whether I'm in a relationship or not. 

Is the alpha male the perfect looking guy. The one that I was with was a narcisstic jerk. He just thought of me as lazy and unmotivated.


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## dianac (Feb 11, 2006)

SAgirl said:


> He just thought of me as lazy and unmotivated.


My ex was like that I think. He didn't think I had any goals. When I told him what I wanted to do, he said they weren't really goals. When you have SA your goals may seem foolish to some who can't understand but we have to live on a different level when it comes to motivation and goals. Some of us would just like to have an ordinary "normal" life with spouse, kids, decent job and home. It may be that these are expected things for some so their goals are more specific to career or such.

I'm not forgetting that our goals may even be smaller to some than that. Like just wanting to be able to talk on the phone or go out shopping without anxiety etc.

I didn't mean to go off topic (but I did anyway?)

The first thing guys see is if the woman is attractive or not I believe. I think they are just wired that way. More and more women are going that route too. That puts a lot of anxiety on anyone with SA to live up to a physical standard that is sometimes unreal whether they are male or female. And that is just the first barrier. Approaching someone, talking to them or being the one who is approachable and receptive. It doesn't matter which gender or side you are on, there is always some challenge.


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