# Nardil making me feel awful



## V1bzz

Hi all, I have had to make this thread because I have not been able to find anythinelse on the forum of people feeling like I do on Nardil.
I'm on my 6th dose of 45mg and every day I just feel horrible on it, I feel high but not in a good way. I have no energy. My pupils are tiny. The feelings are similar to how I felt once the days after an overdose and this worries me.

Do I need to stop taking this med? or do i just need to chill and let it get into my system.

It's got so bad now where I don't think I should even drive my car now. I stumble about. It takes me ages to write stuff online as I have to keep checking my spelling for the frequent mistake. I just totally feel on edge and unwell at the moment.

I don't want to give up on this and won't because i want to get well, just need to know this is not unusual and it will pass.

Thanks to anyone who replies.


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## UKguy

Are you on day 6 in total or have you been on it a while and just increased the dose to 45mg?

If you are on day 6 in total then I would say it is very early days and some side effects usually occur before any benefits - that is true for most antidepressants. 

Perhaps also 45mg is too high for a starting dose... or just too high for you full stop. Could you take a bit less until it gets into your system a bit more?


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## forever in flux

It might be low blood pressure.

I know that it's not uncommon for people to experience severe hypotension when starting Nardil. @UltraShy had severe hypotension when starting Nardil, will see if I can find his thread.

Here's a thread discussing Nardil hypotension from 2014:

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/5-weeks-on-nardil-and-no-hypotension-1280562/

I've never taken Nardil so I'm unsure of how quickly you're supposed to up the dosage but perhaps you could drop it down until the worst of the start up effects pass. Start low and go slow works for me with antidepressants to lessen the side effects but I've never tried MAOIs.


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## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> Hi all, I have had to make this thread because I have not been able to find anythinelse on the forum of people feeling like I do on Nardil.
> I'm on my 6th dose of 45mg and every day I just feel horrible on it, I feel high but not in a good way. I have no energy. My pupils are tiny. The feelings are similar to how I felt once the days after an overdose and this worries me.
> 
> Do I need to stop taking this med? or do i just need to chill and let it get into my system.
> 
> It's got so bad now where I don't think I should even drive my car now. I stumble about. It takes me ages to write stuff online as I have to keep checking my spelling for the frequent mistake. I just totally feel on edge and unwell at the moment.
> 
> I don't want to give up on this and won't because i want to get well, just need to know this is not unusual and it will pass.
> 
> Thanks to anyone who replies.


6 days is very early but 45mg is too high to start IMO. Some might be ok with it but you should probably drop to 30mg. When I try nardil I took 15mg for 4 days then 30 gor one week.


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## forever in flux

Here's Ultrashy's hypotension thread:

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nardil-the-horror-story-1541570/


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## V1bzz

Hi all, I took 2 days at 15, 1 day at 30 then am so far on 45mg for 6 days.

I just poured some salt into a glass with hot water and drunk it, vile but im hoping maybe the salt will help.
I feel abit cold in my chest so wondering if these feelings are low blood pressure.

Thanks for all the replies, I will go read that thread by shy one now.


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## SFC01

I feel so lucky - I got zero side effects from nardil, never ever have done. Sorry, you probably didnt want to hear that !


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I feel so lucky - I got zero side effects from nardil, never ever have done. Sorry, you probably didnt want to hear that !


Rub it in why don't ya? hahaha, kidding.

I think i will maybe try 30mg first thing then 15 early afternoon as I have noticed that when its time to go to sleep arounf 1am I feel pretty much ok. still wobbly when i get up but the feelings which i have all day of feeling ill are gone.


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## UKguy

I think you ramped up the dose too quickly. What did your doctor suggest (plus how did you manage to get a prescription for it)?


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## ameris

You could be having MAOI induced mania/irritability. I recommend getting off of it. Go to a top psychiatrist if you believe your issues are complex and chronic with a long history. 

This medication can cause intense OCD like symptoms. Initially you will get sleepy. This is why you should start with taking one tablet per day for a few days, then two, and finally two + one.


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## Iza707

Yeh, give it some time. Try 30mg for awhile longer before going to 45mg especially if you already feel like crap. If you stick it out then things should start to balance out. If it works for you, then you'll be glad you gave it a try. When I jump up in dose too quickly I get intense side effects. I hate waiting for meds to kick in but with Nardil it is better to take it slow so you have success with it. For me, I would give at least a 7-10 days per 15mg increase. Give it a chance!


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## V1bzz

UKguy said:


> I think you ramped up the dose too quickly. What did your doctor suggest (plus how did you manage to get a prescription for it)?


Doc said take 3 a day. that was it. I just asked for it, she looked in her book and prescribed it.

I'm glad she did. I always research stuff myself before requesting something. I had 3 suggestions which i thought might be a good shot at helping, my first choice was hydroxyzine, 2nd was Nardil and 3rd was buspirone.

The instructions i got from the pharmacist was to take 3 daily also....oh and to keep it in the fridge.


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## V1bzz

Iza707 said:


> Yeh, give it some time. Try 30mg for awhile longer before going to 45mg especially if you already feel like crap. If you stick it out then things should start to balance out. If it works for you, then you'll be glad you gave it a try. When I jump up in dose too quickly I get intense side effects. I hate waiting for meds to kick in but with Nardil it is better to take it slow so you have success with it. For me, I would give at least a 7-10 days per 15mg increase. Give it a chance!


Thanks, im kinda looking at that feeling this ****e means its going to work lol


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## V1bzz

Quick update on how i'm feeling.
I only took 30mg yesterday, still felt crappy after each dose so decided to just go back to 45mg and deal with it.
Been taking vit b complex every night before bed and vit e when i wake up.

I think I turned the corner ever so slightly today. Just something feels different. I'm still wobbly and not feeling great but I feel like there is a warm haze in my head (only way i can describe it).

When I woke up this morning I felt depressed, literally felt like I was going to burst into tears and just thought whats the point of all this. you know.

I look at this as a sign it's starting to work, from experience i always used to feel truy fed up when a med was starting to do something.

Hoping by the end of this week my body will be used to the dosing and I can function as a human been abit more.

Today is day 8 of my nardil experience.

p.s does anyone else feel like they are dry inside. I know this doesn't make any sense. Let me try to explain better. Nope i can't lol.

Hope all are well.

as you can see my typing has improved slightly haha


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## SFC01

sounds **** mate but hopefully its a sign of better things.

How long have you been taking the vit B ? and what kind of dose ? Vit B supps seem to make me feel **** so I stay well clear these days, and I get enough in my diet.

Dry inside ? like struggling to piss, blocked nose etc ?


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> sounds **** mate but hopefully its a sign of better things.
> 
> How long have you been taking the vit B ? and what kind of dose ? Vit B supps seem to make me feel **** so I stay well clear these days, and I get enough in my diet.
> 
> Dry inside ? like struggling to piss, blocked nose etc ?


No like as if you have dry skin but inside lmfao. i know it doesn't make any sense.

It's a vit b complex....

B1 - 1.1mg
B2 - 1.4mg
B3 - 16mg
B5 - 6mg
B6 - 1.4mg
B12 - 2.5


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## Blue Table Space

V1bzz said:


> When I woke up this morning I felt depressed, literally felt like I was going to burst into tears and just thought whats the point of all this. you know.
> 
> I look at this as a sign it's starting to work, from experience i always used to feel truy fed up when a med was starting to do something.
> 
> Hoping by the end of this week my body will be used to the dosing and I can function as a human been abit more.


Yup that sounds like Nardil is doing something. The second month when i was on Nardil was depressing as hell. Plagued with apathy, I just couldn't find the energy to be bothered doing anything. There was a time when I was just lying on the floor...waiting lol. That depressing phased started to lifted thankfully near the end of the 2nd month. By the 9th week it finally kicked in like a lightbulb and has been working ever since.

Just keep at it and it should all blow over!


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## V1bzz

Blue Table Space said:


> Yup that sounds like Nardil is doing something. The second month when i was on Nardil was depressing as hell. Plagued with apathy, I just couldn't find the energy to be bothered doing anything. There was a time when I was just lying on the floor...waiting lol. That depressing phased started to lifted thankfully near the end of the 2nd month. By the 9th week it finally kicked in like a lightbulb and has been working ever since.
> 
> Just keep at it and it should all blow over!


Hi,

9-10 weeks is what im expecting for full nardil affects.

Could really do without the depressed phase though lol


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## UltraShy

The BP lowering effect went away pretty fast (within a month).

Probably could have entirely avoided Nardil's lowering of BP by simply starting at a low dose and increasing slowly.

This is something Parnate doesn't do -- no matter how fast you ramp up the dose nor high how you go. And I don't know of anyone on SAS who went as high as me.


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## V1bzz

UltraShy said:


> The BP lowering effect went away pretty fast (within a month).
> 
> Probably could have entirely avoided Nardil's lowering of BP by simply starting at a low dose and increasing slowly.
> 
> This is something Parnate doesn't do -- no matter how fast you ramp up the dose nor high how you go. And I don't know of anyone on SAS who went as high as me.


I feel like in general now, day 10 that i'm not feeling much bp change effect. Had a moment earlier but I think it may be because i was drinking pepsi? also playing ufc 2 on xbox which was making me angry prob didnt help.

Still feel like dog poop. Felt less out of it and wobbly though this morning, body is slowly addapting i think.

Yesterday I felt rather agitated. everything was annoying me and i just wanted to be left alone in peace. Didn't enjoy feeling like that.

Looking forward to better days to come


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## V1bzz

Hey all, im on day 11 now.

Feeling less effects from taking each tablet now.

Side effects i'm getting is the feeling like my skin is really dry, sensitive and itchy.

Mood still sucks, feeling of lethargy and not wanting to meet people.

example, i got asked to go for steak today and my immediate thought was of dread. it's stupid isn't it?
I replied saying can't eat steak lol but then sent a pm to them on facebook saying i would love to go out with them when i'm feeling abit better. (he knows ive started taking nardil)

hope all is well.

Any ideas when I should start to see the light at the end of the tunnel?


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## V1bzz

Forgot to say, still on 45, take 1st dose at about 09:30, 2nd dose around 13:00 and third dose around 17:00.

I think i will look at upping my dose around the 7th to 60mg.


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## zeusko87

For me Nardil is the most effective if i take 3 pills before breakfast
and other 2 pills few hours later.


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## V1bzz

zeusko87 said:


> For me Nardil is the most effective if i take 3 pills before breakfast
> and other 2 pills few hours later.


Hi,
Have you been taking Nardil for long?
I think once my body gets used to the medication I will start trying to dose closer together. It sure is a pain taking 3 doses at different times of the day.

Do you find its affects your bp taking large doses in one shot?

I think if i done the 45mg together in the morning I would just feel out of it right now.


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## V1bzz

Day 12,

Had my first bout of insomnia last night and extreme itching.

I dropped a bcomplex and cetirizine about 4am and went right off to sleep.

Is it a big no no for me to be dropping anti histamines while on nardil?
I just can't cope with the extreme itching i'm getting at the moment, i will not be defeated by insomnia either. Spent far too many yrs of not being able to sleep and seem to finction quite well with 4 hours kip.

update of dosage, ive done for 30mg first thing and will do the last 15mg at 13:00.

Hoping this will help with the night itching and insomnia.

oh, this might be a case of TMI but it's also becoming harder to #2, it's like extreme pushing for pebbles.

I know i know, i'm sorry lol.

update on mood, no positive improvement on mood yet, not that i have noticed anyway.


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## V1bzz

Still early days


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## V1bzz

Day 14

Dose 45mg, all 3 taken in the morning.

Last two days have been rubbish feelings wise. It was a feeling of being high but the sort of high that you feel so fubared that you just want to be left alone and just someone asking you something makes you really aggitated. I had moments of feeling paranoid too. Not enjoyable at all.
I think it was my body getting used to a new style of dosing.

I wonder if these meds are slow release? I seem to be more out of it 8-12 hrs after taking meds.

Today dosed the same, all 3 in morning and have had little negative effect from it so far (hoping i'm not going to feel fubared later on today)

definitely starting to feel some positive effects from Nardil today, moments of positivity and future seeming a little bit brighter.

Did anyone watch the boxing last night? christ, when hayes ankle went and he was all over the place like a drunk man I felt overwhelmed with emotion. My heart was pounding and thought i was having some sort of weird panic attack. Very odd but I put it down to meds making me feel totally fubared. 

Onwards and upwards


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## V1bzz

I will increase my dose to 60mg mid week or late week.


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## UltraShy

I'm on Nardil and have been for two years now. That's after a year of Parnate at a high dose (120 mg -- yes, that's 12 pills per day).

Parnate is definitely the more user friendly MAOI, with zero side effects in my experience. Well, except for that I had to take it in multiple doses each day as it would raise BP a bit (like 10 points perhaps) if taken all at once. Divided up it had no detectible effect on BP, even though each dose for me was still rather large given that 12 pills a day is still a lot even when you divide by 3.

I take Nardil as a single daily dose of 90 mg in the morning. While not as user friendly, Nardil is more effective for SA (presumably due to it raising GABA, something which no other drug does).


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## cubsfandave

UltraShy said:


> I'm on Nardil and have been for two years now. That's after a year of Parnate at a high dose (120 mg -- yes, that's 12 pills per day).
> 
> Parnate is definitely the more user friendly MAOI, with zero side effects in my experience. Well, except for that I had to take it in multiple doses each day as it would raise BP a bit (like 10 points perhaps) if taken all at once. Divided up it had no detectible effect on BP, even though each dose for me was still rather large given that 12 pills a day is still a lot even when you divide by 3.
> 
> I take Nardil as a single daily dose of 90 mg in the morning. While not as user friendly, Nardil is more effective for SA (presumably due to it raising GABA, something which no other drug does).


Ultrashy, does that combination of meds help you become social?


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## UltraShy

cubsfandave said:


> Ultrashy, does that combination of meds help you become social?


I would rate Nardil #1 in terms of efficacy. It really should be used vastly more often, though the vast bulk of MDs are entirely ignorant regarding MAOIs. About all the average MD knows about MAOIs is that they're really scary and they would rather hold a live grenade than prescribe what they perceive as a lawsuit waiting to happen. Google Libby Zion to see what I mean. She would be the most recent MAOI-related death I'm aware of and 1981 sure isn't recent.

Despite unrivaled efficacy, less than 1% of antidepressant scripts are for MAOIs. I have played "stump the pharmacist" asking if she could identify either tranalcypromine or phenelzine (Parnate & Nardil) and she could not, demonstrating how a few years of intense study in pharmacy school failed to tell her about MAOIs. When I asked for Parnate a highly-rated pdoc with 28 years in practice had to look it up in a book! This is on par the Wizard of Oz where they pull back the curtain and discover the wizard isn't a wizard at all. You'd think to maintain a sense of superiority, he'd at least look it up in another room, such that I wouldn't see that I literally know more about MAOIs than he does.

Don't expect magic from Nardil (or any other pill) though it certainly helps.

Also, you're going to have to ask for it specifically. If you wait for your pdoc to suggest it, you'll most likely be waiting till hell freezes over. I can think of a guy who's had something like a dozen pdocs who have had him on everything under the sun, except an MAOI.


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## V1bzz

UltraShy said:


> I'm on Nardil and have been for two years now. That's after a year of Parnate at a high dose (120 mg -- yes, that's 12 pills per day).
> 
> Parnate is definitely the more user friendly MAOI, with zero side effects in my experience. Well, except for that I had to take it in multiple doses each day as it would raise BP a bit (like 10 points perhaps) if taken all at once. Divided up it had no detectible effect on BP, even though each dose for me was still rather large given that 12 pills a day is still a lot even when you divide by 3.
> 
> I take Nardil as a single daily dose of 90 mg in the morning. While not as user friendly, Nardil is more effective for SA (presumably due to it raising GABA, something which no other drug does).


Geeze, 12 pills a day! :O


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## V1bzz

UltraShy said:


> I would rate Nardil #1 in terms of efficacy. It really should be used vastly more often, though the vast bulk of MDs are entirely ignorant regarding MAOIs. About all the average MD knows about MAOIs is that they're really scary and they would rather hold a live grenade than prescribe what they perceive as a lawsuit waiting to happen. Google Libby Zion to see what I mean. She would be the most recent MAOI-related death I'm aware of and 1981 sure isn't recent.
> 
> Despite unrivaled efficacy, less than 1% of antidepressant scripts are for MAOIs. I have played "stump the pharmacist" asking if she could identify either tranalcypromine or phenelzine (Parnate & Nardil) and she could not, demonstrating how a few years of intense study in pharmacy school failed to tell her about MAOIs. When I asked for Parnate a highly-rated pdoc with 28 years in practice had to look it up in a book! This is on par the Wizard of Oz where they pull back the curtain and discover the wizard isn't a wizard at all. You'd think to maintain a sense of superiority, he'd at least look it up in another room, such that I wouldn't see that I literally know more about MAOIs than he does.
> 
> Don't expect magic from Nardil (or any other pill) though it certainly helps.
> 
> Also, you're going to have to ask for it specifically. If you wait for your pdoc to suggest it, you'll most likely be waiting till hell freezes over. I can think of a guy who's had something like a dozen pdocs who have had him on everything under the sun, except an MAOI.


If you don't mind me asking, how many weeks were you on nardil before you had a noticable difference and knew it was having the desired effect?

I'm so damn impatient >


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## ManInAShed

UltraShy said:


> I'm on Nardil and have been for two years now. That's after a year of Parnate at a high dose (120 mg -- yes, that's 12 pills per day).
> 
> Parnate is definitely the more user friendly MAOI, with zero side effects in my experience. Well, except for that I had to take it in multiple doses each day as it would raise BP a bit (like 10 points perhaps) if taken all at once. Divided up it had no detectible effect on BP, even though each dose for me was still rather large given that 12 pills a day is still a lot even when you divide by 3.
> 
> I take Nardil as a single daily dose of 90 mg in the morning. While not as user friendly, Nardil is more effective for SA (presumably due to it raising GABA, something which no other drug does).


How have you found the Nardil in treating your SA? I've been on this forum for years and know you've pretty much tried everything under the sun and haven't had much success so I'm interested in hearing your opinion on Nardil. I don't want to get my hopes up too much but for me it's proving to be a miracle med which has changed my opinion on antidepressants now that I'm beginning to see how effective it can be.


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## V1bzz

ManInAShed said:


> How have you found the Nardil in treating your SA? I've been on this forum for years and know you've pretty much tried everything under the sun and haven't had much success so I'm interested in hearing your opinion on Nardil. I don't want to get my hopes up too much but for me it's proving to be a miracle med which has changed my opinion on antidepressants now that I'm beginning to see how effective it can be.


This is great to read. How long have you been on it and at what dose?


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## V1bzz

I've got terrible twitching in my right eye last night and today. Hope it's not making me look like too much of a freaktard lol 

Same dose today, 45mg first thing in morning. Body is just about used to the dose now, apart from this weird eye twitching which is kinda annoying.


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I've got terrible twitching in my right eye last night and today. Hope it's not making me look like too much of a freaktard lol
> 
> Same dose today, 45mg first thing in morning. Body is just about used to the dose now, apart from this weird eye twitching which is kinda annoying.


Tell me about it, I had to just stop aripiprazole as it was making my tongue and lips do involuntary movements, so much so I couldn't speak at times. When I was trying to sleep, my tongue was just wriggling about in my mouth - ****in nightmare !!

I`m sure it will pass for you. Dont think nardil is known for any movement side effects but I might be wrong.

Keep the posts up and good luck with nardil kicking in soon.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Tell me about it, I had to just stop aripiprazole as it was making my tongue and lips do involuntary movements, so much so I couldn't speak at times. When I was trying to sleep, my tongue was just wriggling about in my mouth - ****in nightmare !!
> 
> I`m sure it will pass for you. Dont think nardil is known for any movement side effects but I might be wrong.
> 
> Keep the posts up and good luck with nardil kicking in soon.


Cheers mate, damn your meds sound like a nightmare.

I have noticed i keep biting my tongue in my sleep.


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Cheers mate, damn your meds sound like a nightmare.
> 
> I have noticed i keep biting my tongue in my sleep.


Yeah, the aripiprazole was a good med for energy but **** that tongue think - I`m only on nardil right now, may leave that way.


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## ManInAShed

V1bzz said:


> This is great to read. How long have you been on it and at what dose?


It's been roughly two months now at 60mg.


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## V1bzz

ManInAShed said:


> It's been roughly two months now at 60mg.


Can't wait to reach that stage. I do think im getting something off of it now but i'm not really going out much because i'm abit wobbly like im drunk so it's hard to know for sure.


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## V1bzz

Day 16.

Dose 3 x 15mg as soon as i woke up then 15mg at 15:00

Hoping upping the dose will stop this weird pain and weakness in my legs. hopefully not make me walk around drunk even more too


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## V1bzz

Leg pain seems to have gone since i took the last 15mg to go to 60mg.

I kinda feel all warm and fuzzy, not a unpleasant feeling at all 

Is it possible just changing dose by 15mg can have an instant effect on how you feel?


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## UltraShy

V1bzz said:


> Geeze, 12 pills a day! :O


Generic Parnate is only made by one company: Par Pharmaceuticals. And Par humorously makes it in 100-count bottles. So when I got a 90-day supply in the mail, 1,080 pills, they would send me 10 factory bottles + a pharmacy bottle with the extra 80. A box of 11 bottles does indeed look quite stunning.

The price at that dose is also stunning: $12,000 per year.


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## V1bzz

UltraShy said:


> Generic Parnate is only made by one company: Par Pharmaceuticals. And Par humorously makes it in 100-count bottles. So when I got a 90-day supply in the mail, 1,080 pills, they would send me 10 factory bottles + a pharmacy bottle with the extra 80. A box of 11 bottles does indeed look quite stunning.
> 
> The price at that dose is also stunning: $12,000 per year.


Wow that is funny. you would need some kind of drug box for it lol :grin2:


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## V1bzz

Day 17..

60mg all 4 in the morning.

Feeling really tired and groggy.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah, the aripiprazole was a good med for energy but **** that tongue think - I`m only on nardil right now, may leave that way.


Hey mate, I started taking 60mg yesterday. Today, I took at 09.30 60mg and at about 3pm the feelings i got and am still feeling now this evening is not unlike being high on drugs. Everything about it bar the feeling of being in heaven. Very odd. Would be great if I got that old skool early 90's xtc feelings too lol.

I can wish can't i :nerd:>


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## ManInAShed

V1bzz said:


> Hey mate, I started taking 60mg yesterday. Today, I took at 09.30 60mg and at about 3pm the feelings i got and am still feeling now this evening is not unlike being high on drugs. Everything about it bar the feeling of being in heaven. Very odd. Would be great if I got that old skool early 90's xtc feelings too lol.
> 
> I can wish can't i :nerd:>


It was like that for me, it just suddenly started working, and these past view weeks have been like a very weak sort of mania. I think it's starting to die down now and settle a bit but the drug is still just as effective. Are you looking to treat mostly SA or depression as well?


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## V1bzz

ManInAShed said:


> It was like that for me, it just suddenly started working, and these past view weeks have been like a very weak sort of mania. I think it's starting to die down now and settle a bit but the drug is still just as effective. Are you looking to treat mostly SA or depression as well?


Severe SA and paranoia. Wondering if its allowed to take nardil at night time?
Seems to make sense to me that I could just sleep through all these fcuked up feelings.


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## ManInAShed

V1bzz said:


> Severe SA and paranoia. Wondering if its allowed to take nardil at night time?
> Seems to make sense to me that I could just sleep through all these fcuked up feelings.


I don't see any problem with taking it at night time, nardil to me is calming so its helped my sleep somewhat.


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## V1bzz

ManInAShed said:


> I don't see any problem with taking it at night time, nardil to me is calming so its helped my sleep somewhat.


I think I will give it a try. really hate not being able to think straight during the day. I had a job interview yesterday and felt like a total mong. If they had asked me my name it would have took me 5 seconds to think of the answer. It was not good lol


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## 546617

did you have the nardil euphoria first week?


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## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> did you have the nardil euphoria first week?


Hi, I didn't feel euphoria but had the rest of the feelings. I think my brain is so broken that I just don't get that euphoria that maybe people who haven't taken a ton of xtc and speed would get.

I actually feel really fed up and down today. I didn't get the job and I know normally I would have got the job easily. The combination of having a little panic attack just before i went in for the interview and these meds clouding my mind just made it so i was a total fcuktard when they were asking me questions.

I'm not so upset about not getting the job as I am about how I feel like right now i'm just a dumbass incapabale of doing anything.

The meds are kicking in I know as I now have Inorgasmia.


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## V1bzz

Day 19, day 3 of 60mg all taken in the morning.

Having abit of sleep disruption. Tossing and turning, waking up after a few hrs sleep. Not causing me any problems though and not feeling tired the next day because of it

Dry mouth and Inorgasmia. Shaky hands, my hands are always shaky until meds kick in so looking at this as a sign were not there yet. Gladly so as I'm not noticing any improvment in things.

Was feeling abit down about life yesterday but feel fine today.

Should I be feeling beneficial effects by now? nearly 3 weeks in?


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Should I be feeling beneficial effects by now? nearly 3 weeks in?


Its hard to say mate.

I felt it kick in after the second week but a lot people mention 1 -2 months, even 3.

Just hang in there !


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Its hard to say mate.
> 
> I felt it kick in after the second week but a lot people mention 1 -2 months, even 3.
> 
> Just hang in there !


Thanks for the reassurance.

I think once my body starts to get used to it more, so i'm not feeling fubared every day I may start to see the difference then :smile2:

Plus it's only day 3 at 60mg


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Thanks for the reassurance.
> 
> I think once my body starts to get used to it more, so i'm not feeling fubared every day I may start to see the difference then :smile2:
> 
> Plus it's only day 3 at 60mg


Apparently 60mg is the real therapeutic dose where you get sufficient MAO inhibited for a response so hopefully another couple of weeks (sooner I hope) and you should start to feel something.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Apparently 60mg is the real therapeutic dose where you get sufficient MAO inhibited for a response so hopefully another couple of weeks (sooner I hope) and you should start to feel something.


Hoping so.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Apparently 60mg is the real therapeutic dose where you get sufficient MAO inhibited for a response so hopefully another couple of weeks (sooner I hope) and you should start to feel something.


I decided to drop another 15mg just to see if going up 1 dose 1 time will help with how i feel at 60mg.

Feeling uber chilled right now. Kinda feel like im on drugs but without the feeling euphoric part.


----------



## Gillman fan

@ OP - read a bit of your posts and I am sorry, I got off lucky I am a Parnate guy. It is the "EZ mode" MAOI at least when it comes to titration.

Ultrashy I am on 150 mg Parnate now  The cost to my insurance company makes me laugh. Parnate is on their formulary so I am not in any danger of them trying to pull the plug on me. 

One thing I will note - there has been an MAOI fatality since Libby Zion. I can't find a link right now but I read this in an academic journal. Someone died in 2007 from Imipramine + MAOI. Again, this is due to doctor incompetence, at least in the Anglosphere doctors have known for years that Imipramine and Clomipramine (but not the other tricyclics) are off limits. As Dr. Gillman notes, Imipramine is basically the least potent med that can cause lethal serotonin toxicity... so doctors can be lured into false confidence if they prescribe it 10 times without any problems.

OP it is kind of late now since you have already experienced some of the worst side effects, but IMO there is absolutely no reason for you to suffer through it without co-medication to treat the sides. Nortriptyline is quite helpful in several different areas, generally I think sleep meds like Zopiclone are a bad idea in the long run, but a short-term prescription to adjust to MAOI titration is a logical and compassionate decision. I could go on... unfortunately as Ultrashy said many doctors regard MAOIs as a live grenade, and if they do write you a prescription they will probably be hunkered under their desks, chewing on their fingernails, unwilling to prescribe completely safe meds to help you adjust.

SAD!


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> @ OP - read a bit of your posts and I am sorry, I got off lucky I am a Parnate guy. It is the "EZ mode" MAOI at least when it comes to titration.
> 
> Ultrashy I am on 150 mg Parnate now  The cost to my insurance company makes me laugh. Parnate is on their formulary so I am not in any danger of them trying to pull the plug on me.
> 
> One thing I will note - there has been an MAOI fatality since Libby Zion. I can't find a link right now but I read this in an academic journal. Someone died in 2007 from Imipramine + MAOI. Again, this is due to doctor incompetence, at least in the Anglosphere doctors have known for years that Imipramine and Clomipramine (but not the other tricyclics) are off limits. As Dr. Gillman notes, Imipramine is basically the least potent med that can cause lethal serotonin toxicity... so doctors can be lured into false confidence if they prescribe it 10 times without any problems.
> 
> OP it is kind of late now since you have already experienced some of the worst side effects, but IMO there is absolutely no reason for you to suffer through it without co-medication to treat the sides. Nortriptyline is quite helpful in several different areas, generally I think sleep meds like Zopiclone are a bad idea in the long run, but a short-term prescription to adjust to MAOI titration is a logical and compassionate decision. I could go on... unfortunately as Ultrashy said many doctors regard MAOIs as a live grenade, and if they do write you a prescription they will probably be hunkered under their desks, chewing on their fingernails, unwilling to prescribe completely safe meds to help you adjust.
> 
> SAD!


Hey there. Thanks for the info. Yeah I won't even bother asking my doctor for something to help as I doubt they would prescribe anything. It is getting easier day by day, I will continue to ride it out as i'm sure once my body adjusts to this strong *** medication I should start to feel the benefits. Really can't wait for that :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

quetiapine (25 to 75mg) can be a good alternative to the z drugs for sleep and should be easy enough to get from the doc. I`ve used it successfully with nardil for sleep and it sometimes uplifts my mood even more.

Stating the obvious but sleep is important especially with someone suffering a mood disorder and from experience too little sleep over a few days would even start to mask any benefit nardil.

Just something to bear in mind as nardil can cause occasional sleep issues at any stage during treatment.


----------



## V1bzz

Do you guys know if the Inorgasmia will pass? sure I read on here somewhere that it does. Really sucks having that in your life.


----------



## SFC01

yes it does


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> quetiapine (25 to 75mg) can be a good alternative to the z drugs for sleep and should be easy enough to get from the doc. I`ve used it successfully with nardil for sleep and it sometimes uplifts my mood even more.
> 
> Stating the obvious but sleep is important especially with someone suffering a mood disorder and from experience too little sleep over a few days would even start to mask any benefit nardil.
> 
> Just something to bear in mind as nardil can cause occasional sleep issues at any stage during treatment.


Nardil is already affecting my sleep. what the heck, next time i speak to my doc i will ask for some of that. what exactly is it?


----------



## SFC01

well officially its an anti-psychotic but thats at the high dosages - 400mg plus - buts its quite commonly given out for sleep at low dosages where it only acts as a strong anti-histamine and nothing else. 

Like I say, you will only need 25mg - 50mg odd. No interactions with MAOI's.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> well officially its an anti-psychotic but thats at the high dosages - 400mg plus - buts its quite commonly given out for sleep at low dosages where it only acts as a strong anti-histamine and nothing else.
> 
> Like I say, you will only need 25mg - 50mg odd. No interactions with MAOI's.


Sweet, thanks for the info, will ask about that the next time i speak to the doc :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> well officially its an anti-psychotic but thats at the high dosages - 400mg plus - buts its quite commonly given out for sleep at low dosages where it only acts as a strong anti-histamine and nothing else.
> 
> Like I say, you will only need 25mg - 50mg odd. No interactions with MAOI's.


Do you think I should do 75mg for a couple more days then go back to 60? do you think that will help me feel less fubared at 60mg?


----------



## Iza707

If you already have issues sleeping then Nardil will probably increase your insomnia. Weight gain and insomnia are pretty common. i was getting only 2-3 hours per night. It did get better but I wish I had asked my pdoc for something to help me sleep. I'll probably see if I can get Seroquel (quetiapine) also. I would have gotten a lot more out of Nardil if I hadn't let myself become sleep deprived. 

V1bzz.. hope you start feeling better soon. I can tell when I go up in dose it can sometimes make me more angry/irritable before the other good chems kick in. It feels like some of the neurotransmitters are getting inhibited quicker than others. I feel like augmenting with Valproic Acid this time has helped that agitation/irritation I get. I get pretty tired on Nardil but the valproic acid gives me an energy kick plus I drink a lot of coffee (with no effects on bp). I hope the depressive side effects aren't just due to the nardil fatigue.. maybe try hitting some caffeine? At some point you do have to just take it easy and rest. I've learned not to fight the fatigue. 

For dosing, I feel I get the best kick out of Nardil by taking it closer together. My doc suggested taking it three times a day but that doesn't work for me. At the highest dosage of 60 or 75 I would take 3 upon waking then 1-2 maybe 3-4 hours later. I think it has a half life of up to 4 hours? I would have lots of motivation from the morning dose then just rest in the afternoon. So maybe dose in the morning and get things done then plan on resting from fatigue in the PM. That's just how it works best for my body.


----------



## V1bzz

Iza707 said:


> If you already have issues sleeping then Nardil will probably increase your insomnia. Weight gain and insomnia are pretty common. i was getting only 2-3 hours per night. It did get better but I wish I had asked my pdoc for something to help me sleep. I'll probably see if I can get Seroquel (quetiapine) also. I would have gotten a lot more out of Nardil if I hadn't let myself become sleep deprived.
> 
> V1bzz.. hope you start feeling better soon. I can tell when I go up in dose it can sometimes make me more angry/irritable before the other good chems kick in. It feels like some of the neurotransmitters are getting inhibited quicker than others. I feel like augmenting with Valproic Acid this time has helped that agitation/irritation I get. I get pretty tired on Nardil but the valproic acid gives me an energy kick plus I drink a lot of coffee (with no effects on bp). I hope the depressive side effects aren't just due to the nardil fatigue.. maybe try hitting some caffeine? At some point you do have to just take it easy and rest. I've learned not to fight the fatigue.
> 
> For dosing, I feel I get the best kick out of Nardil by taking it closer together. My doc suggested taking it three times a day but that doesn't work for me. At the highest dosage of 60 or 75 I would take 3 upon waking then 1-2 maybe 3-4 hours later. I think it has a half life of up to 4 hours? I would have lots of motivation from the morning dose then just rest in the afternoon. So maybe dose in the morning and get things done then plan on resting from fatigue in the PM. That's just how it works best for my body.


Thanks for the advice, yeah i also do all 4 in the morning. find it works best for me.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Do you think I should do 75mg for a couple more days then go back to 60? do you think that will help me feel less fubared at 60mg?


I`m not sure mate as I didn't get any side effects (sorry to mention that again) but maybe stick to 60mg until you feel less ****ed and then try @ 75mg again. I guess you have to suck it and see as they say, and whatever you do, it won't effect how nardil is going to work for you in the long run.

May be try and structure your day a bit to help ie go to bed and get up @ sametime each day, schedule in a nap at the same time in the afternoon and don't over sleep, no caffeine after midday, get some exercise in the AM and some after your nap etc

Just a suggestion and of course you may do this already !!


----------



## V1bzz

I think it may be starting to work. When I was at the supermarket I felt generally more calm and not so super aware of everyone as I usually am. This is a good start, it's horrible always noticing everyone around you and feeling panic even doing simple things like scanning your shopping.

Can't wait to keep improving, i'm actually super excited. I can't tell you how awesome it will be just not being so aware of people when i'm out. good times are a coming im sure


----------



## SFC01

Good to hear mate, lets hope its the start and then keeps getting better.


----------



## 546617

what brand are you using? vibbz? I see ur from UK . so archimedes nardil? also how is the food restrictions going for you? like are you sensetive or? cuz when I was on nardil I could eat lots of the things on the forbidden list.


----------



## Iza707

I was able to go to the store the other day, too. It's amazing how programmed you get to being panicky in situations that you automatically assume you are going to freak out in. Then all of a sudden you realize how calm you feel and it completely changes everything. So Nardil can help by changing your thinking about social situations once you start experiencing the relief it gives. Then you start going to the store thinking this is easy instead of the opposite. I just wish I didn't go right back into panic mode once I'm off of it. 

It seems like leg cramps, fatigue, body aches, etc. are the same symptoms you get with potassium deficiency. Supposedly, sodium can make your body excrete excessive amounts of potassium so you get deficient. Maybe Nardil might be causing the same thing? I'm going to start eating more potassium rich food and see if this helps at all.


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> what brand are you using? vibbz? I see ur from UK . so archimedes nardil? also how is the food restrictions going for you? like are you sensetive or? cuz when I was on nardil I could eat lots of the things on the forbidden list.


Hey, yeah im on the archimedes brand. I am aware of the food restrictions list but have been eating normally. I will just make sure I don't eat aged cheese or marmite. 
Apart from that I have been eating whatever and not worrying about it. If I eat something and it makes me feel ill I won't eat it again, haven't had that problem so far though.

I find im smoking alot more since being on nardil and drinking a lot more tea also.


----------



## V1bzz

Iza707 said:


> I was able to go to the store the other day, too. It's amazing how programmed you get to being panicky in situations that you automatically assume you are going to freak out in. Then all of a sudden you realize how calm you feel and it completely changes everything. So Nardil can help by changing your thinking about social situations once you start experiencing the relief it gives. Then you start going to the store thinking this is easy instead of the opposite. I just wish I didn't go right back into panic mode once I'm off of it.
> 
> It seems like leg cramps, fatigue, body aches, etc. are the same symptoms you get with potassium deficiency. Supposedly, sodium can make your body excrete excessive amounts of potassium so you get deficient. Maybe Nardil might be causing the same thing? I'm going to start eating more potassium rich food and see if this helps at all.


Please let me know if that helps.

I find my legs don't hurt as much any more since going up to 60mg. I have done 75mg for the last two days and have been sleeping really well. Makes my neck and shoulders ache though, i'm also wobbly and seem drunk. It just reminds me off my days taking xtc. Every now and then you would get a smacky one and the feelings were very similar.

I think the aching is from dopamine release? just a guess as my body feels the same way now as after i used to have a good raving session.

It's rather interesting on 75mg, I just feel fubared all day and I must admit, its not unpleasant at all. I'm kinda gutted when it's time to go to bed lol


----------



## V1bzz

I actually just stood up and went all light headed and now have ringing in my ears.

Read about that somewhere on the forum. Will have to look it up. Is that low blood pressure?


----------



## SFC01

yep, thats hypotension, apparently a good sign !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> yep, thats hypotension, apparently a good sign !!


I am defo starting to feel it working. feel so much brighter today and happy :grin2:

I have done 75mg again today. am i getting ahead of myself now, I should drop back to 60mg shouldnt I?

I done it just to boost me through the feelings of 60mg but i'm kinda enjoying how it makes me feel lol


----------



## SFC01

stay at 75mg then if it feels good - it worked for me at 60mg but when I went up to 75mg, the effect was a lot more consistent.


----------



## V1bzz

I will just stick to 60mg now as i think my body is just about used to it.
Can't wait for the effects of 60 to get to work. then go up if i'm not happy with where im at


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> stay at 75mg then if it feels good - it worked for me at 60mg but when I went up to 75mg, the effect was a lot more consistent.


I feel like i'm being abit OCD'ish on 75mg. but maybe its cos of the massive amounts of dopamine going around my body.

What do you think?


----------



## SFC01

no idea on that one mate as I've never had ocd on nardil, or at all but you may be right if its something that is new for you. It will probably settle down in a few days.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> no idea on that one mate as I've never had ocd on nardil, or at all but you may be right if its something that is new for you. It will probably settle down in a few days.


Just taking 60mg defo makes me feel really tired during the day. I seem to be less so on 75.

Was just going to do 60 today but I feel like i just want to go to sleep right now so popped another 15


----------



## V1bzz

Nardil update day 22

Dose 60mg with a 15mg boost for the last 3 days to help get my body used to the 60mg

Feeling of being high at 60mg and really high at 75mg has now turned to extreme tiredness. Struggling to keep my eyes open.

I have been feeling more positive and bright shortly after taking my morning dose of 60mg. Feeling like I want to go out and defo feeling more chatty.

Will stay at 60mg tomorrow with out the extra 15mg boost and get into a routine of taking an early afternoon nap for an hour or so.

Looking forward to seeing how I feel as each day progresses now. Hopefully this extreme tiredness doesn't stick around


----------



## V1bzz

I dropped a Vit B complex and feel much better


----------



## V1bzz

*Day 23*
*1 week at 60mg *

Taken all at once in the morning.
B vit complex around lunch.

Body seems to be just about used to the dosing now. Get an initial buzz when i first take the meds, life feeling abit brighter and motivated.

Had a light headed moment earlier which is a good sign i believe. This afternoon its hard to describe how I feel. Feel abit unwell as if getting a cold and abit flat emotionally. Also had a couple of spells where I feel really cold. Jumping into the shower seems to help stop that though and feel warm again after.

Something abit tmi now. I think this might be the 2nd day of not needing a #2. Not really feeling that hungry either, which is fine by me. Need to shed a few pounds I have put on around the middle from the SSRI's

My wight gain was pretty much the only positive from taking all the other meds I tried. I was stuck at about 10 stone, sometimes dropping under when I was feeling crap with the SA. Looking far too skinny and ill.

I'm holding at around 12 stone now. Happy with this weight, just not the spare tire lol


----------



## V1bzz

I feel really light headed and weak, feel like I weigh about 50 stone when I walk. So tired!


----------



## V1bzz

*Day 25
Day 8 at 60mg*

Have been having hypotension in the afternoons. I have decided to take a b vit complex and a multi vit around lunch time to combat this. I also jump in the shower when I feel uber cold.

Don't really feel any initial feelings after taking my 60mg dose in the morning now. Just feel tiredness and lightheadedness building as the day progresses.

When I have to get up during the night it's a task, I have to take it slow as not to fall down the stairs lol
Sleeping really well at the moment, not taking me hours to fall asleep. Some night tossing and turning though.

One massive positive i've noticed is the severe restless and hot feet I usually get at night when lying in bed has just about gone. This is such a good thing for me as it was a major annoyance having to get my room freezing cold just to be able to sleep.

No Noticeable improvement on SA yet.


----------



## 546617

how long are you gonna give Nardil?


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> how long are you gonna give Nardil?


I've only been on it just over 3 weeks so its far too early to think about coming off it.

I will give it 6 months and if it doesn't work try Parnate


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> stay at 75mg then if it feels good - it worked for me at 60mg but when I went up to 75mg, the effect was a lot more consistent.


Hey SFC01, did you happen to feel damn cold once the Nardil started kicking in?
I'm bloody freezing at the moment from the time I wake up until whenever i take a really hot shower.

It's quite different from SSRI's where I felt hotter all the time that's for sure.

Hope it passes.

I was reading an old thread earlier today with you and some other new nardil user (in 2016 i think) talking about waking up more motivated to get up. I am also feeling this the last few days, waking up earlier and just wanting to get up and get on with the day. This is so unlike me. Usually wake up super tired and groggy not wanting to do sh1t!


----------



## SFC01

Hi Mate, no didn't get anything like that, I`ve never been one to feel the cold. Could be the noradrenaline/dopamine increase maybe ?

Yeah I always wake up really motivated since being on nardil and it can be an issue sometimes as I wake up at stupid times wanting to get up and do stuff ! A good sign for you maybe ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi Mate, no didn't get anything like that, I`ve never been one to feel the cold. Could be the noradrenaline/dopamine increase maybe ?
> 
> Yeah I always wake up really motivated since being on nardil and it can be an issue sometimes as I wake up at stupid times wanting to get up and do stuff ! A good sign for you maybe ?


Yeah hoping so mate.
I'm guessing the coldness is hypotension which is also a good indicator of it starting work isnt it?


----------



## SFC01

yeah according to Dr Ken Gillman, an expert on MAOI's, hypotension is a good sign


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> yeah according to Dr Ken Gillman, an expert on MAOI's, hypotension is a good sign


Sweet! Can't wait for it to start working. I was in the shops today and there was a lady next to me looking at something with confusion which i knew the answers for and I wanted to talk to her, I did in the end but it took a long time of thinking about it in my head before I did. Will be glad for that to be gone from my life because its just ridiculous!


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> how long are you gonna give Nardil?


Hey :smile2: what drug are you on now? did you find something to help your SA? if not, have you thought about trying Nardil again? I've read others have been successfull 2nd try. Did you try Parante at all? also read thats the one to go to if Nardil fails.


----------



## 546617

V1bzz said:


> Hey :smile2: what drug are you on now? did you find something to help your SA? if not, have you thought about trying Nardil again? I've read others have been successfull 2nd try. Did you try Parante at all? also read thats the one to go to if Nardil fails.


well im waiting for my doc to book an appointment then I will bring up a few medications to try:
- california rocket fuel (is a medical slang term for the combined administration of mirtazapine (a NaSSA) and venlafaxine (an SNRI).)
-anafranil
and Parnate.

Right now I take 100mg Seroquel XR daily. It keeps my mood balanced but doesen't do much for my depression or anxiety. When you read about Nardil working for others the second try, did they try another brand or can you link me the threads? It doesen't make sense why it would unless they try a diff brand.


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> well im waiting for my doc to book an appointment then I will bring up a few medications to try:
> - california rocket fuel (is a medical slang term for the combined administration of mirtazapine (a NaSSA) and venlafaxine (an SNRI).)
> -anafranil
> and Parnate.
> 
> Right now I take 100mg Seroquel XR daily. It keeps my mood balanced but doesen't do much for my depression or anxiety. When you read about Nardil working for others the second try, did they try another brand or can you link me the threads? It doesen't make sense why it would unless they try a diff brand.


It was on this forum somewhere amongst all the chat so couldn't find it off hand. search nardil 2nd try or something on google. I also remember someone trying it for the 3rd time is i remember rightly.

I found the best drug for improving my mood for depression to be Citalopram, have you tried that?

Man venlafaxine and mirtazapine is seriously going to knock you out. Mirt is a sleeper and it makes you tired about 45mins after taking until you get used to it. Also gives you the munchies bad like you would get from smoking dope.
Never tried them mixed though as you have written so can't say what that would be like, I have only ever taken one at a time. Maybe that was the mistake? who knows.

I have been quite lucky with depression, well i say lucky, not really as it has nearly destroyed me a few times. The last time in 2012 was the worst for me and I said then, once I had got better that I wouldn't get that ill again. So far I haven't, which is why I say i'm lucky. Depression really sucks ***.

Please do let us know how you get on with what your doc gives you. Parnate sounds great as a second option for an MAOI but maybe you will be better suited on other type anti-depressants.

Hope it works out for you, depression/anxiety is a sh1t battle for anyone to fight in.

Cheers,


----------



## SFC01

Mirtazapine gave me hunger like you have never seen and made me angry - I was like an ethiopean incredible hulk.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Mirtazapine gave me hunger like you have never seen and made me angry - I was like an ethiopean incredible hulk.


:haha :haha


----------



## V1bzz

I tell ya these Nardil make it damn hard to keep your eyes open sometimes!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Mirtazapine gave me hunger like you have never seen and made me angry - I was like an ethiopean incredible hulk.


Sorry for all the questions but did you get light headedness when you first started Nardil?
I get dizzy spells on it during the day but the worst is when I wake during the night. I now have to literally sit on the side of my bed for a minute before standing because I feel close to fainting. Once I do get up I walk very slowly as i'm walking like i'm drunk.

Not sure if I should be worried about this or just accept, as I currently am, that it's my body just getting used to the 60mg dosing.

It's not a nice feeling experiencing that during the night, hope it will pass. Didn't get it like this at 45mg so i'm guessing its me just adjusting to the new dosage. Its been just under 2 weeks since I went to 60mg I think.

Feel damn tired a couple of hours after taking in the morning too, eyes get so heavy. I find dropping bvit complex and multi vit helps abit.
I had to drop 3 of the badboys last night just to be able to stay awake!


----------



## V1bzz

I read earlier actually a thread about lightheadedness that suggested it could be because I drink Pepsi every day. Been addicted to the damn stuff since Mirtazapine.
I will give it a miss for a few days and see if it improves.


----------



## Sweeto

I'm on nardil day 11 and I have so intense orgasm as never before. This is what I think of heaven to be


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I'm on nardil day 11 and I have so intense orgasm as never before. This is what I think of heaven to be


hahaha yeah I was kinda horny at the start too. I feel like i'm not interested in sex now. hopefully this stage will pass soon 

What dose you on?


----------



## rm123

Anyone combined it with lithium?


----------



## Sweeto

So far 60mg but But I will jump to 75mg tomorrow



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on nardil day 11 and I have so intense orgasm as never before. This is what I think of heaven to be
> 
> 
> 
> hahaha yeah I was kinda horny at the start too. I feel like i'm not interested in sex now. hopefully this stage will pass soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What dose you on?
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Anyone combined it with lithium?


Nope, im just on nardil. I doubt my doc would ever let me take more than one med at a time. Have never asked though to be fair so who knows.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> So far 60mg but But I will jump to 75mg tomorrow


Ah you started at the hardcore dose then. I'm 2 weeks on 60mg tomorrow but done about 2 weeks at 45mg.
A few days after I went to 60 I took another 15mg to take it to 75 for a few days and boy did I feel high lol.
Massive dopamine release in my body was crazy. Walked about like I was high too and legs hurt from the dopamine. Was fun.
Just makes me tired now when i bump up cos i think my body is starting to get used to 60,

Do you get fatigue yet? It's a struggle to keep my damn eyes open these last few days!


----------



## V1bzz

*2 weeks at 60mg*

To be honest I am not noticing any positive results from the meds so far. Lots of side effects though, hypotesion, loss of libido, anorgasmia, feeling like i'm going to faint when I stand up, really bad during the night. Constipation now for 6 or 7 days and extreme day time fatigue.

I am however sleeping great but waking up stupidly early wanting to get up and get on with the day. I'm prob averaging 6 hrs a night at the moment.

It is early days for the 60mg though and I'm still hoping for good things. Have not lost the faith yet


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> *2 weeks at 60mg*
> 
> To be honest I am not noticing any positive results from the meds so far. Lots of side effects though, hypotesion, loss of libido, anorgasmia, feeling like i'm going to faint when I stand up, really bad during the night. Constipation now for 6 or 7 days and extreme day time fatigue.
> 
> I am however sleeping great but waking up stupidly early wanting to get up and get on with the day. I'm prob averaging 6 hrs a night at the moment.
> 
> It is early days for the 60mg though and I'm still hoping for good things. Have not lost the faith yet


2 weeks is nothing ! Just wait !

With parnate I have to force myself sleeping because usually I'm good to go with 4 hours of sleep and it's not healthy at all (super tired in the afternoon though but the afternoon nap cannot offset such a lack of sleep).

I would like to try nardil eventually, parnate is good for depression but for SA there is room for improvement, not more efficient than paxil.


----------



## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> 2 weeks is nothing ! Just wait !
> 
> With parnate I have to force myself sleeping because usually I'm good to go with 4 hours of sleep and it's not healthy at all (super tired in the afternoon though but the afternoon nap cannot offset such a lack of sleep).
> 
> I would like to try nardil eventually, parnate is good for depression but for SA there is room for improvement, not more efficient than paxil.


Yeah im finding the afternoon naps don't really help as i'm waking up about 30mins after wanting to get up and get on again lol.

I was on 45mg for a couple of weeks, so about a month now and 60mg for 2 weeks. Defo not giving up yet


----------



## V1bzz

Popped to the pharmacy, thought it was time to get the ole BP done since i'm experiencing alot of hypotension at the moment.

They did it on the arm 3 times and this was the results.

120/80 being normal, mine were...

1st - 97/65 
2nd - 100/63
3rd - 100/66


----------



## Sweeto

No fatigue yet. I've no side effects at all. The first day on 75mg and no difference it seems to be as a placebo so far.



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far 60mg but But I will jump to 75mg tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Ah you started at the hardcore dose then. I'm 2 weeks on 60mg tomorrow but done about 2 weeks at 45mg.
> A few days after I went to 60 I took another 15mg to take it to 75 for a few days and boy did I feel high lol.
> Massive dopamine release in my body was crazy. Walked about like I was high too and legs hurt from the dopamine. Was fun.
> Just makes me tired now when i bump up cos i think my body is starting to get used to 60,
> 
> Do you get fatigue yet? It's a struggle to keep my damn eyes open these last few days!
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> No fatigue yet. I've no side effects at all. The first day on 75mg and no difference it seems to be as a placebo so far.


It's very strange how it affects people so differently. I felt fcuked when I first started taking 60mg and more so on 75mg

Are you getting any positive effects yet for your SA?


----------



## Sweeto

Unfortunately no effects at all...still waiting. What brand of Nardil do you have?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Unfortunately no effects at all...still waiting. What brand of Nardil do you have?


Archimedes, a uk brand.

I know it sounds horrible but it gives me hope that you are nearly at 2 weeks and not feeling it yet. Just means its far too early yet for both of us, hopefully in another two weeks we will be telling a different story. :wink2:

Let us know when you start to get hypotension, that's a good sign its starting to work.
Even though, saying that, SFC01 had no side effects at all, I don't think.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey all, the last two or so days I have had such bad muscle fatigue, it really feels like an olympic event just to hoover downstairs and i feel exhausted after. My constipation is however easing up, I was finally able to have a half decent poop last night (TMI lol).

I am also noticing less severe lightheadedness during the night when i have to get up. Seems like all the SE's im having maybe slowly dissipating.

It's kinda hard to tell if i'm feeling less anxiety at the moment cos I look like a zombie when I go out, watery eyes that look stoned which i can hardly see through lol. This is from the hypotension and fatigue i'm guessing. Hopefully it will pass soon.

Am sleeping much better, seem to fall asleep very quickly after getting into bed instead of the hours it used to take. My body wakes up about 6am though ready to get going. I managed to force myself back to sleep this morning till 07:30 though.

Waiting for my Vit D to come through the post to help with this muscle fatigue, it truly sucks feeling you have just done a hard session at the gym just from walking up the stairs haha


----------



## V1bzz

Just got my Vit D2/D3 tablets. Will let y'all know if they help with this damn muscle fatigue


----------



## Gillman fan

For the early waking you do not need medication. Just use bright light therapy - before - yes before - you go to bed.

I have explained this to enough incredulous people that I am just gonna be lazy and link the study. Don't take my word for it. http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/280510.pdf


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> For the early waking you do not need medication. Just use bright light therapy - before - yes before - you go to bed.
> 
> I have explained this to enough incredulous people that I am just gonna be lazy and link the study. Don't take my word for it. http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/280510.pdf


Thanks for the info. I slept great last night though and didn't wake up till 8am :grin2:

I genuinly think the nardil might be starting to work now, First day, something just feels abit different. Guess I will know for sure in the next few days. fingers crossed :clap


----------



## V1bzz

The Vit D defo helps with the muscle fatigue and day time tiredness 

Your only supposed to take 1 a day 2000iu according to the bottle but i know that 5000iu is needed for extreme fatigue and tiredness so boshed 2 about 11am and another 2 4pm. :nerd:

Nice so far not struggling to keep my damn eyes open :laugh:

EDIT - done another 2 at about 6pm.

The vit D has really helped me get through the day today without wanting to sleep


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Mirtazapine gave me hunger like you have never seen and made me angry - I was like an ethiopean incredible hulk.


I'm starting to get the munchies for carbs, that's a good sign in it? :smile2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'm starting to get the munchies for carbs, that's a good sign in it? :smile2:


It could be mate, I never got that though !!

How is your mood, any change for the better yet ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> It could be mate, I never got that though !!
> 
> How is your mood, any change for the better yet ?


I don't think so mate. I felt a little bit different when i went to the shops yesterday but figured it was just me not feeling so fatigued because I dropped 4000ui of Vit D.

Don't feel ay different this morning, guessing i will feel different all the time? or is it just something i will notice in SA situations?

I guess because i'm asking these questions its not working yet? (hope so) lol


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Don't feel ay different this morning, guessing i will feel different all the time? or is it just something i will notice in SA situations?


I never had SA, it was depression and GAD and I noticed it all the time when nardil kicked in as it removed the depression and GAD completely - it was like a new lease of life. I`m sure when it kicks in you'll notice that too not just in situations you currently struggle with.


----------



## Sweeto

Hi SFC, do you think it's normal that I don't have any negative side effects from Nardil? Day 15, dosage 75mg.

day 1-3 - 15mg
day 3-6 - 30mg
day 7-10 - 60mg
day 11-now 75mg

I split doses to two. 3x15mg in the morning and 2x15mg at noon


----------



## SFC01

@*Sweeto* , I dont know if you remember but I never got any side effects from nardil either and it worked perfectly for me and your dosing regime for 75mg is exactly the same as mine.

Its day 15 so I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet and btw I have the same brand as you as well.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I never had SA, it was depression and GAD and I noticed it all the time when nardil kicked in as it removed the depression and GAD completely - it was like a new lease of life. I`m sure when it kicks in you'll notice that too not just in situations you currently struggle with.


I also have GAD and paranoia, every kind of anxiety I got it lol.

Hoping to feel it kick in soon mate and for this eye tiredness to lift so i can start getting on with things


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hi SFC, do you think it's normal that I don't have any negative side effects from Nardil? Day 15, dosage 75mg.
> 
> day 1-3 - 15mg
> day 3-6 - 30mg
> day 7-10 - 60mg
> day 11-now 75mg
> 
> I split doses to two. 3x15mg in the morning and 2x15mg at noon


Show off :lol

List all the side effects and i've sure had every single one!! :rain lol


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @*Sweeto* , I dont know if you remember but I never got any side effects from nardil either and it worked perfectly for me and your dosing regime for 75mg is exactly the same as mine.
> 
> Its day 15 so I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet and btw I have the same brand as you as well.


I think i'm going to go up to 75mg as it seems everyone else is haha. I think 75 to 90 is the therapeutic dose for anxiety issues anyway isn't it?


----------



## V1bzz

For anyone reading, unless it's just another side effect passing, Vit D2 & D3 really helps with the hypotension and lightheadness. It's been pretty much non existent the last two days since taking the Vit D :wink2::nerd:


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz - see your profile says house music producer, got any tunes / mixes / links you can pm me ?

Need some new sounds seeing that we are in for some decent weather for a bit.


----------



## zeusko87

From my experience you need to take higher doses of Nardil to get relief from social anxiety.
For depression usually 60-75 mg is enough, but not for SA.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz - see your profile says house music producer, got any tunes / mixes / links you can pm me ?
> 
> Need some new sounds seeing that we are in for some decent weather for a bit.


Yeah man, will message you my soundcloud 

P.s how do you tag someones name in a post?


----------



## V1bzz

zeusko87 said:


> From my experience you need to take higher doses of Nardil to get relief from social anxiety.
> For depression usually 60-75 mg is enough, but not for SA.


What dosage do you suggest for anxiety?

I've just gone up to 75mg, well actually im on day 2 of 75.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hi SFC, do you think it's normal that I don't have any negative side effects from Nardil? Day 15, dosage 75mg.
> 
> day 1-3 - 15mg
> day 3-6 - 30mg
> day 7-10 - 60mg
> day 11-now 75mg
> 
> I split doses to two. 3x15mg in the morning and 2x15mg at noon


Sweeto how many days you been on 75mg for now. i'm on day 2. would be good if its about the same time as we can see what each others progress is as far as feeling better.


----------



## Sweeto

It will be 5 days tomorrow, yeah that's a good idea. Do you have any serious side effects?



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi SFC, do you think it's normal that I don't have any negative side effects from Nardil? Day 15, dosage 75mg.
> 
> day 1-3 - 15mg
> day 3-6 - 30mg
> day 7-10 - 60mg
> day 11-now 75mg
> 
> I split doses to two. 3x15mg in the morning and 2x15mg at noon
> 
> 
> 
> Sweeto how many days you been on 75mg for now. i'm on day 2. would be good if its about the same time as we can see what each others progress is as far as feeling better.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sweeto

Great and what's your weight? When did Nardil kick in for you?



SFC01 said:


> @*Sweeto* , I dont know if you remember but I never got any side effects from nardil either and it worked perfectly for me and your dosing regime for 75mg is exactly the same as mine.
> 
> Its day 15 so I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet and btw I have the same brand as you as well.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> It will be 5 days tomorrow, yeah that's a good idea. Do you have any serious side effects?


Yeah i've had everything mate.

I've had hypotension for ages. feeling really cold after taking dose. constipation. anorgasmia. loss of libido. extreme muscle fatigue. Nearly fainting when i get out of bed during the night. walking about like i'm drunk during the day. lightheadedness when i stand up. Eyes really tired and heavy all day, I look like i'm stoned. Feeling like im ready for sleep all day. just everything haha.

I had the constipation now for over a week, it has got better but still can't go fully. I've also put on a ton of weight on my stomach. So yeah, this med hasn't been great for me so far lol

I've started taking vitamins to help, Vit B complex. Vit D2/D3 for last two days which really helps with the lightheadedness and hypotension actually. The head tiredness and heavy eyes is back with a vengeance though and abit wobbly again since going to 75mg.

What worries me is that I got nothing from being on 45 for a month. I know its too early for the 60mg dose but im apprehensive.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey all, Just writing to say I spread my dose out today. 3x15 at 0800 this morning and have just done the other 2 at 12:00. So far feeling much better on the meds, less fatigued with tired heavy eyes. I would at some point like to just be able to take the whole dose at once in the morning but maybe this is why i am currently getting all side effects. Will see how it goes doing it this way for a few days


----------



## Sweeto

That's exactly the way I'm using Nardil 3x15+2x15. Soon you should feel something, that's over 4 weeks since your first dose


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz - see your profile says house music producer, got any tunes / mixes / links you can pm me ?
> 
> Need some new sounds seeing that we are in for some decent weather for a bit.


Can you remember if when it first started work you had nice feeling on your skin, like rushes? i'm getting that today and it feels good when i get them :nerd:

Just generally a nice feeling through out my body since i took the extra 30mg, me likey. Feel abit heavy eyed and tired again though.


----------



## Sweeto

Ok so little update on my side effects. I've got a constipation but I've solved it with beans. I'm not 100% cured so far but fortunately I could ****


----------



## UltraShy

I feel normal on 90 mg, though that's after two years.

Parnate is the very user-friendly MAOI, Nardil, not so much.

Nardil is a FANTASTIC med and my advice to everyone is to start low, go slow, and give it plenty of time to work before you even consider giving up on this wonder drug. 60 years and the pharmaceutical industry has yet to produce anything better.

Everyone with serious SA should give Nardil a real try. Though you WILL have to specifically demand it, as hell will freeze over before a doc offers it to you.

Yes, it is indeed a PITA at the start, but after you see what it can do, I bet you will consider it worth it.


----------



## UltraShy

Sweeto said:


> Ok so little update on my side effects. I've got a constipation but I've solved it with beans. I'm not 100% cured so far but fortunately I could ****


You can buy fiber capsules in bulk bottles + Miralax (OTC or prescription, depending on which is cheaper) + docusate which it OTC an also available in bulk bottles of like #300.


----------



## V1bzz

UltraShy said:


> I feel normal on 90 mg, though that's after two years.
> 
> Parnate is the very user-friendly MAOI, Nardil, not so much.
> 
> Nardil is a FANTASTIC med and my advice to everyone is to start low, go slow, and give it plenty of time to work before you even consider giving up on this wonder drug. 60 years and the pharmaceutical industry has yet to produce anything better.
> 
> Everyone with serious SA should give Nardil a real try. Though you WILL have to specifically demand it, as hell will freeze over before a doc offers it to you.
> 
> Yes, it is indeed a PITA at the start, but after you see what it can do, I bet you will consider it worth it.


Stop it, your making me get excited :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Ok so little update on my side effects. I've got a constipation but I've solved it with beans. I'm not 100% cured so far but fortunately I could ****


I know this is abit gross but I think I cleared everything out today. It took some serious pushing though with serious nardil headspins but finally glad this constipation seems to be passing, literally :b


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> That's exactly the way I'm using Nardil 3x15+2x15. Soon you should feel something, that's over 4 weeks since your first dose


Yeah I copied you and SFC :b:nerd:

Do you not get tired heavy eyes from the meds?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Can you remember if when it first started work you had nice feeling on your skin, like rushes? i'm getting that today and it feels good when i get them :nerd:
> 
> Just generally a nice feeling through out my body since i took the extra 30mg, me likey. Feel abit heavy eyed and tired again though.


Yeah still get the nice feeling now and again - could be the dopamine tingles !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah still get the nice feeling now and again - could be the dopamine tingles !!


Yeah I think thats what it was, was shortly after taking the 2nd dose.

Wish I would get past this damn heavy tired eyes stage, really sucks! :serious:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah I think thats what it was, was shortly after taking the 2nd dose.
> 
> Wish I would get past this damn heavy tired eyes stage, really sucks! :serious:


You sleeping ok at night ? Weren't you going to ask your doc about quetiapine?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> You sleeping ok at night ? Weren't you going to ask your doc about quetiapine?


Yeah i'm sleeping great at the moment since starting the meds. I fall right to sleep shortly after getting in to bed. Bed feels so damn comfortable. Am just waking up early. Not too bad this morning, was about 7ish. its mostly 6am with tossing and turning, waking up then sleeping again from about 5am.

Really happy that I can just sleep so great again after about 10yrs of having to watch the tv for hours until I fall asleep. I don't even get to watch my programs now as I fall right to sleep.

When I used to fall asleep before these meds my body was programmed to wake straight up again to turn off the tv. I often wake up now with the TV still on and 3 hrs have passed.


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> Great and what's your weight? When did Nardil kick in for you?


Probably heavier than you  - I`m about 15 and a half stone but when I started nardil I was fatter than that as I was on lyrica and 150mg quetiapine and ate like a pig.

I am sure nardil kicked in within 2 weeks for me Sweeto, I know it was early on. I was severely depressed one day and the next I was literally depression and anxiety free - it was quite a remarkable turn around.

All my enzymes and gene's must be built for nardil !!


----------



## Captainmycaptain

I took a month and a half break from Nardil (one of the biggest mistakes of my life), yet just within a few days of dosing 45-60 mg a day, the feeling of desperation and sadness feels slightly lifted. This is not my imagination, but it seems impossible that the medication is working again so quickly after, presumably, being washed out of my system.


----------



## V1bzz

DRUGSAREnotGOOD said:


> I took a month and a half break from Nardil (one of the biggest mistakes of my life), yet just within a few days of dosing 45-60 mg a day, the feeling of desperation and sadness feels slightly lifted. This is not my imagination, but it seems impossible that the medication is working again so quickly after, presumably, being washed out of my system.


I think these meds give off a pretty instant huge dopamine release. Probably why I find it hard to focus all bloody day lol.
I did notice this when first starting the meds, massive dopamine feelings in my body. aching legs, feeling high kinda feeling.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Probably heavier than you  - I`m about 15 and a half stone but when I started nardil I was fatter than that as I was on lyrica and 150mg quetiapine and ate like a pig.
> 
> I am sure nardil kicked in within 2 weeks for me Sweeto, I know it was early on. I was severely depressed one day and the next I was literally depression and anxiety free - it was quite a remarkable turn around.
> 
> All my enzymes and gene's must be built for nardil !!


Sounds like it mate :grin2:

I wonder if i'm having so many side effects because I haven't taken meds this strong before? for example I have never taken a benzo or anything. I'm just trying to justify feeling the way I do. I just had a massive lightheadedness moment and it's the first time ive said omg and felt ill for abit after, really unsteady and confused. Was abit worrying. 
Apart from that I have just the usual heavy foggy eyes where its difficult to see anything. Defo from the dopamine these meds give off after taking.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Sounds like it mate :grin2:
> 
> I wonder if i'm having so many side effects because I haven't taken meds this strong before? for example I have never taken a benzo or anything. I'm just trying to justify feeling the way I do. I just had a massive lightheadedness moment and it's the first time ive said omg and felt ill for abit after, really unsteady and confused. Was abit worrying.
> Apart from that I have just the usual heavy foggy eyes where its difficult to see going on.




Dont sweat it mate, I haven't read many reviews of phenelzine where people had no side effects like me. Your experience sounds just like many others.

When it works then you'll forget all these side's, which should disappear for you in time anyway.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Dont sweat it mate, I haven't read many reviews of phenelzine where people had no side effects like me. Your experience sounds just like many others.
> 
> When it works then you'll forget all these side's, which should disappear for you in time anyway.


I look forward to that day


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> I think these meds give off a pretty instant huge dopamine release. Probably why I find it hard to focus all bloody day lol.
> I did notice this when first starting the meds, massive dopamine feelings in my body. aching legs, feeling high kinda feeling.


It seems to spark a reaction in me that is somewhere between hypomania and normal. It is not clear whether a side-effect of phenelzine is hypomanic feelings or whether that is something that only happens to people who have bipolar II. Anyone who has the answer to that is lying. My psychiatrist felt that I was bipolar II for several reasons, including my three-day hypomanic episode which followed a period of being awake for four days and having a nervous breakdown. Ironically, even though phenelzine is one of the oldest antidepressants, in my opinion, it is one of the least understood medications. That is why I try to keep myself from laughing when I meet a new psychiatrist who, besides having never tried the medication themselves, has never treated someone using Nardil, and miraculously knows so much about the medication that they would receive the Nobel Prize if the put their ruminations to paper.


----------



## V1bzz

*3 Weeks at 60mg, 5 weeks at 45mg*.... still nothing


----------



## SFC01

ah man, stick with it - i was super early with my response @ 2 weeks, that doesn't seem to be normal at all - it'll come through for you mate, and if it doesnt, you could maybe give parnate a go.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> ah man, stick with it - i was super early with my response @ 2 weeks, that doesn't seem to be normal at all - it'll come through for you mate, and if it doesnt, you could maybe give parnate a go.


Yeah I will give the 75mg at least 2 months I guess then if nothing still I will have to think about giving up.
I still have hope but as time passes it just fades little by little.

Still early for the 60mg dose im guessing? I expected to get something at least from 45mg though. is 5 weeks stil learly days for that dose for most? do you know?

I do wake up more motivated and less negative for the day I think. I don't really have depression any more, just the kind of depressive feeling s that come with anxiety so maybe thats why i'm not noticing it so much. I'm pretty sure i've read that 45mg is more for depression then higher doses for anxiety. I think someone may have even said that in this thread.


----------



## V1bzz

zeusko87 said:


> From my experience you need to take higher doses of Nardil to get relief from social anxiety.
> For depression usually 60-75 mg is enough, but not for SA.


Yes here. I don't know what dose is suggested though.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Still early for the 60mg dose im guessing? I expected to get something at least from 45mg though. is 5 weeks stil learly days for that dose for most? do you know?
> 
> I do wake up more motivated and less negative for the day I think. I don't really have depression any more, just the kind of depressive feeling s that come with anxiety so maybe thats why i'm not noticing it so much. I'm pretty sure i've read that 45mg is more for depression then higher doses for anxiety. I think someone may have even said that in this thread.


I have read that to get the therapeutic amount of MAO inhibition then you need to be on at least 60mg, so 45mg is probably too low. How much you need to go above 60mg for the full effects I guess will depend on the individual make up - seems to be quite a few factors involved around genetics, enzymes, weight etc.

Were you offered parnate as well when they gave you nardil ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I have read that to get the therapeutic amount of MAO inhibition then you need to be on at least 60mg, so 45mg is probably too low. How much you need to go above 60mg for the full effects I guess will depend on the individual make up - seems to be quite a few factors involved around genetics, enzymes, weight etc.
> 
> Were you offered parnate as well when they gave you nardil ?


No, I just randomly came across Nardil the day I asked for it. Never heard of Parnate until I joined this forum.
I pretty much request what I want to try now at the docs because I have tried every thing else.

3 weeks at 60mg is nothing really then is it?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> No, I just randomly came across Nardil the day I asked for it. Never heard of Parnate until I joined this forum.
> I pretty much request what I want to try now at the docs because I have tried every thing else.
> 
> 3 weeks at 60mg is nothing really then is it?


No 3 weeks is nothing mate, plenty of time still.

Randomly came across nardil haha

Some people on this forum plan for ages, printing off studies and testimonies, diet lists and have several appointments with pyschiatrists before they get it.

And you turn up at the docs, having only heard of that day !! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> No 3 weeks is nothing mate, plenty of time still.
> 
> Randomly came across nardil haha
> 
> Some people on this forum plan for ages, printing off studies and testimonies, diet lists and have several appointments with pyschiatrists before they get it.
> 
> And you turn up at the docs, having only heard of that day !! :grin2:


I didn't know it was this wonder drug, it was in a list of 3 meds I made for the docs appointment and literally came across it a couple of hrs before appointment. Wasn't even my first choice :kma

I guess i'm some kind of lucky, flukey SOB lol :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I guess i'm some kind of lucky, flukey SOB lol :grin2:


Some would say so 

I got mine first time of asking as well !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Some would say so
> 
> I got mine first time of asking as well !!


I have got really bad side effects at the minute. literally everytime I stand up I feel like i'm going to collapse. It's that intense that I get hearing loss and I feel really hot and start sweating. Not a quick thing either like before. Lasts for about 30 seconds, dies down and then kicks back in again.
I'm guessing this is the hypotension returned but more severe! :frown2:

I'm also semi constipated again. Had a bad stomach last night and cleared 2 weeks worth of the brown stuff, have never seen anything like it :shock Now it's a major workout again with intense headspins from pushing so hard lol

I'm guessing this could be the 60mg starting to kick in as I got hypotension when the 45 did? 
Christ i'm not looking forward to the hypotension from 75!!!


----------



## V1bzz

Could this possibly be because I took an antihistamine??


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Could this possibly be because I took an antihistamine??


I wouldnt have thought so, I take anithistamines for sleep sometimes, as well as quetiapine which is also a anthistamine.

The only time I get hypotension is the day after taking amphetamines, my vision almost goes sometimes but otherwise I never get it at 75mg.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I wouldnt have thought so, I take anithistamines for sleep sometimes, as well as quetiapine which is also a anthistamine.
> 
> The only time I get hypotension is the day after taking amphetamines, my vision almost goes sometimes but otherwise I never get it at 75mg.


Christ, if it ends up not working after all these nasty side effects i'm going to scream. At the moment I look at it as my body doing this because the nardil is working and i'm just adjusting to it, hope I don't end up looking like a fool! :frown2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Christ, if it ends up not working after all these nasty side effects i'm going to scream. At the moment I look at it as my body doing this because the nardil is working and i'm just adjusting to it, hope I don't end up looking like a fool! :frown2:


calm down calm down :grin2:

Give it time mate, try and forget about it if you can - if it was like me, there is no mistaking it when it kicks in so no need to analyse stuff too much - the hypotension suggests you are getting up to the therapeutic range now so hopefully once all your wiring gets sorted, you''ll start to feel it.

You said nardil wasn't your first choice, what was ?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'm also semi constipated again. Had a bad stomach last night and cleared 2 weeks worth of the brown stuff, have never seen anything like it :shock


Oh yeah, thanks for this, please keep sharing the details :grin2:

2 weeks oh dear !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Oh yeah, thanks for this, please keep sharing the details :grin2:
> 
> 2 weeks oh dear !!


Sorry :haha:haha


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> calm down calm down :grin2:
> 
> Give it time mate, try and forget about it if you can - if it was like me, there is no mistaking it when it kicks in so no need to analyse stuff too much - the hypotension suggests you are getting up to the therapeutic range now so hopefully once all your wiring gets sorted, you''ll start to feel it.
> 
> You said nardil wasn't your first choice, what was ?


Hydroxyzine. You heard of it, any good?
2nd choice was Nardil and 3rd choice was Buspirone.


----------



## Gillman fan

V1bzz said:


> Can you remember if when it first started work you had nice feeling on your skin, like rushes? i'm getting that today and it feels good when i get them :nerd:
> 
> Just generally a nice feeling through out my body since i took the extra 30mg, me likey. Feel abit heavy eyed and tired again though.


I am not on Nardil, I am a Parnate man. This body buzz sensation you are describing is one of the earliest signs that the med is working. Very good sign.

As far as hypotension check out Dr. Gillman's website. www.psychotropical.com. He is the most knowledgeable expert on MAOI safety, and he also explains how hypotension can be measured as a proxy for MAO inhibition.

Re: Hydroxyzine - that is a VERY obscure medication. How did you come across that? It looks like Mirtazapine with a few small changes, mainly 5ht2c antagonism swapped for D2 antagonism. I guess it could be useful as a "one pill solution" for several problems but the modern practice is generally to prescribe several meds if you can generate equivalent effects.

Buspirone sucks. Never tried it but I have never heard a patient say good things about it.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> I am not on Nardil, I am a Parnate man. This body buzz sensation you are describing is one of the earliest signs that the med is working. Very good sign.
> 
> As far as hypotension check out Dr. Gillman's website. www.psychotropical.com. He is the most knowledgeable expert on MAOI safety, and he also explains how hypotension can be measured as a proxy for MAO inhibition.
> 
> Re: Hydroxyzine - that is a VERY obscure medication. How did you come across that? It looks like Mirtazapine with a few small changes, mainly 5ht2c antagonism swapped for D2 antagonism. I guess it could be useful as a "one pill solution" for several problems but the modern practice is generally to prescribe several meds if you can generate equivalent effects.
> 
> Buspirone sucks. Never tried it but I have never heard a patient say good things about it.


Hey, thanks for your reply. You have filled me with hope again, which is a good thing. I will read that link at some point today.

Umm the Hydroxzine and Buspirone seemed to have good reviews for anxiety on drugs.com (think that was where I spotted them).

I stumbled upon this forum the day I got Nardil just from a random post coming up in a random google search. Had never read or even seen this forum until that day. Lucky for me


----------



## Sweeto

3 weeks in with no changes. One week on 75mg. Btw my weight is 84kg so I hope it's not necessary to increase the dosage to 90mg


----------



## Captainmycaptain

Sweeto said:


> 3 weeks in with no changes. One week on 75mg. Btw my weight is 84kg so I hope it's not necessary to increase the dosage to 90mg


What brand of Nardil are you taking? I am one of the few people on here who has been on two brands of Nardil: Archimedes and Gavis. The Gavis brand, who many say is most similar to the original formulation before it was changed in 2003, was significantly more effective for me than the Archimedes. Within a few days after switching from Archimedes to Gavis, I noticed that the side effects became far more significant even though I was on the same dose. At the same time, my depression lifted and the hypomanic effects become more noticeable. I did not feel any different during my time on Archimedes.

I know there is at least one other member who swears by Archimedes so maybe it effects different people in different ways. However, other members have said that they felt nothing from Archimedes. I have also heard bad things about the Greenstone brand. When I got my prescription for Nardil, I went to three pharmacies and asked the pharmacist which company manufactured the Nardil and CVS and Walgreens told me Greenstone. I finally found Gavis Nardil at Costco.


----------



## Sweeto

Archimedes and honestly I have no side effects at 75mg. I hope it will work though


----------



## Captainmycaptain

Sweeto said:


> Archimedes and honestly I have no side effects at 75mg. I hope it will work though


Is Archimedes the only manufacturer that produces phenelzine where you live? I am not sure if Gavis is available where you live but I strongly feel that Gavis is by far the most effective brand of Nardil. There have been some mixed reviews on here about the effectiveness of phenelzine and I am suspecting that the inconsistencies have to do with the brand of phenelzine people are taking.


----------



## Sweeto

There is no phenelzine where I live but Archimedes is the only one which is for good price. 0.35/pill.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Archimedes and honestly I have no side effects at 75mg. I hope it will work though


I honestly think its far too early days for you yet. what is the total time you have been on Nardil, 2 or 3 weeks?
Give it more time, plus some people are lucky not to feel any ill effects. Me? I have had everything going and it sucks, yet I am not feeling anything yet either positive effects wise.

I would say your constipation is a side effect. I'm also on the same brand as you. I think SFC is too?


----------



## V1bzz

DRUGSAREnotGOOD said:


> Is Archimedes the only manufacturer that produces phenelzine where you live? I am not sure if Gavis is available where you live but I strongly feel that Gavis is by far the most effective brand of Nardil. There have been some mixed reviews on here about the effectiveness of phenelzine and I am suspecting that the inconsistencies have to do with the brand of phenelzine people are taking.


I'm just about to get more so I will ask if I can have the Gavis brand. Even though i'm getting every side effect going on archimedes


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I'm just about to get more so I will ask if I can have the Gavis brand. Even though i'm getting every side effect going on archimedes


Good luck! Hope you get the Gavis brand and it works out better than Archimedes.

I wouldn't be able to put up with all those horrendous side effects. If I were you, I'd try starting at 15mg again for at least 10 days, then 30 for 1 week, then 45, then don't go up until side effects are manageable. That's my plan.. I just started today. Wish me luck! :afr


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Good luck! Hope you get the Gavis brand and it works out better than Archimedes.
> 
> I wouldn't be able to put up with all those horrendous side effects. If I were you, I'd try starting at 15mg again for at least 10 days, then 30 for 1 week, then 45, then don't go up until side effects are manageable. That's my plan.. I just started today. Wish me luck! :afr


Good luck, let us know how it goes in this thread 

My lightheadedness/hypotension has been pretty much non existant today, just a couple of mild spells so far :smile2:
However...OMG I have the worst muscle fatigue ever today. Walking really is about as much as I can do and that is an extremey tiring exercise. I often have to sit down to let the pain and aching tiredness in my muscles subside. Really crazy!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I honestly think its far too early days for you yet. what is the total time you have been on Nardil, 2 or 3 weeks?
> Give it more time, plus some people are lucky not to feel any ill effects. Me? I have had everything going and it sucks, yet I am not feeling anything yet either positive effects wise.
> 
> I would say your constipation is a side effect. I'm also on the same brand as you. I think SFC is too?


Yep, I`m on the same brand. Some sites say archimedes is the best out there, others say gavis. I think we can only get archimedes in the UK from the NHS but as you know its worked miracles for me so its the real deal.


----------



## V1bzz

*1 Week 75mg*
*4 Weeks at 60mg*

Still having quite severe hypotension but mild some days. Extreme muscle fatigue but bareable some days.
Still sleeping great and waking up earlier motivated to get up and get on with the day.
Afternoon tiredness still affects me but a quick 30min nap seems to sort that out until the evening.
I feel like my anxiety was very slightly less today than usual, Could be the Nardil or I could be having one of my good days.

Nothing so far that lets me know 100% that I am on Nardil and its working.

Is 4 weeks at 60mg still too early days?

This morning I had mild hypotension , This afternoon I have mild tiredness and fatigue and the body tingles, me likes them, yup i does


----------



## Sweeto

With me nothing new beside constipation which is quite horrible. Still on 75mg, but I'm thinking about to move to 90mg


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> With me nothing new beside constipation which is quite horrible. Still on 75mg, but I'm thinking about to move to 90mg


I genuinly think you need to give the 75mg more time to work mate.
Yeah the constipation stinks, no pun intended!

Mine started to clear the evening after doing some dorsal raises. don't know if that helped? it was quite disgusting unloading 2 weeks worth of sh1t.

I've became constipated again since but am able to clear out little amounts. I honestly think it may be the dorsal raises helping to move it.

Have you started to gain weight on your stomach? i've become a little fatty with bloatedness


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah the constipation stinks, no pun intended!


lol


----------



## Sweeto

I thouhgt 1mg is equal to 1kg and my weight is about 84kg so therefore I'm thinking about raising the dosage.

Yes I'm gaining weight very fast lol. 4kgs for 1 month :-O. What about you?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I thouhgt 1mg is equal to 1kg and my weight is about 84kg so therefore I'm thinking about raising the dosage.
> 
> Yes I'm gaining weight very fast lol. 4kgs for 1 month :-O. What about you?


I havent weighed myself but man, I can just look down at my stomach and see lol

Didn't know that about the 1mg to 1kg conversion. is that a genuine thing people use to get effective results from nardil?

Christ I just weighed myself and have put on 5 pounds :O
81kg up from 76.9


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Didn't know that about the 1mg to 1kg conversion. is that a genuine thing people use to get effective results from nardil?


Cant be or when I started nardil I would have been on **** loads !!!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Cant be or when I started nardil I would have been on **** loads !!!


75 would have been the correct dose for me but not now lol :rofl


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> 75 would have been the correct dose for me but not now lol :rofl




Just keep an eye on it.

As you can probably guess, I have never got that side effect :grin2:

I`ve lost weight easily on nardil since I gave up lyrica a while back and the only time i get peckish is when I take quetiapine.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Just keep an eye on it.
> 
> As you can probably guess, I have never got that side effect :grin2:
> 
> I`ve lost weight easily on nardil since I gave up lyrica a while back and the only time i get peckish is when I take quetiapine.


You just love to keep rubbing it in don't ya? haha :grin2:


----------



## 546617

curious to see if the GAVIS brand will make any difference.


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> curious to see if the GAVIS brand will make any difference.


Worth a shot mate. From what i've seen on this forum it works for the people that don't really get anything off the archimedes brand.

Also giving it another try on the archimedes might be worth it, who knows it may work second time. It has for others on this forum.


----------



## Sweeto

I've seen many posts that claim aegis wasn't? superior to archimedes. There are many users for example zeusko or spc and many others who are satisfied with archimedes. Lot of users from EU are satisfied with archimedes because of availability and good price


----------



## Sweeto

And in addition, it's clear that Nardil is successful for up to 70% of users. If I'm among these 30% than it's only ect or opiates as a possibility to treat anxiety. Maybe Adderall but it's not available for most of us


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> You just love to keep rubbing it in don't ya? haha :grin2:


Who me? I dont like to talk about it !! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Who me? I dont like to talk about it !! :grin2:


:lol:haha:rofl


----------



## zeusko87

Sweeto said:


> I've seen many posts that claim aegis wasn't? superior to archimedes. There are many users for example zeusko or spc and many others who are satisfied with archimedes. Lot of users from EU are satisfied with archimedes because of availability and good price


Many people on this forum (including me) take Archimedes brand of Nardil with great results.

SFC01, shy-one, ChopSuey, Barry1865, ilem, UltraMagnus, Mancman...

Here is the poll: _"Which Nardil Brand Do You Take"
_
*http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nardil-users-which-brand-do-you-take-863818/*


----------



## V1bzz

I'm pretty sure I had my first food interaction today. Hard to tell though, I ate a load of chocolate chip cookies then shortly after had massive intense hypotension and really extreme muscle fatigue where as I felt like I was going to collapse just from walking. I really felt quite unwell and had to lie down.

Anyone know if that's what happens with food interactions with Nardil?


----------



## V1bzz

zeusko87 said:


> Many people on this forum (including me) take Archimedes brand of Nardil with great results.
> 
> SFC01, shy-one, ChopSuey, Barry1865, ilem, UltraMagnus, Mancman...
> 
> Here is the poll: _"Which Nardil Brand Do You Take"
> _
> *http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nardil-users-which-brand-do-you-take-863818/*


Thanks for sharing this. Gives me hope about this stuff finally kicking in 
What dose do you take and how long did it take to feel beneficial effects?

Cheers


----------



## pheniboner

Sorry but nardil is overrated


----------



## CascadeII

I just skimmed through this thread (and then had to re-register because the forgot password request function is not working for me).

I've been on Nardil for over four years. I had many failed attempts the first year all caused by raising the dosage too quickly. After a year I decided to try a new approach. I started at 15 mg and decided to only increase once my body tolerated that amount and the side effects subsided. It turned out that it would take a month. After each month, I would increase it by another 15 mg. After four months I was steady at my targeted 60 mg with no side effects. I can't say those four months were fun. With each increase I would deal with a new round of hypotension (helped by using an abdominal binder), horrible insomnia, and generally just feeling like crap. During that period I had no energy and could not walk far. After the four months though all issues went away. The medication completely rid me of my social anxiety and helps with depression. Without the social anxiety, I don't live in constant fear of social interactions and just live. You have to be patient with this medication. You have to accept that the period of your body adjusting to it is going to be hell. It can also be frustrating because I did have the hypomania in the beginning, which felt great, but when it subsides you feel like the medication has stopped working. You need to give it time for its full effect to be realized.

No one should ever say any medication is over-rated. While any given medication may not work for one person, it has likely saved the life of another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rm123

CascadeII said:


> I just skimmed through this thread (and then had to re-register because the forgot password request function is not working for me).
> 
> I've been on Nardil for over four years. I had many failed attempts the first year all caused by raising the dosage too quickly. After a year I decided to try a new approach. I started at 15 mg and decided to only increase once my body tolerated that amount and the side effects subsided. It turned out that it would take a month. After each month, I would increase it by another 15 mg. After four months I was steady at my targeted 60 mg with no side effects. I can't say those four months were fun. With each increase I would deal with a new round of hypotension (helped by using an abdominal binder), horrible insomnia, and generally just feeling like crap. During that period I had no energy and could not walk far. After the four months though all issues went away. The medication completely rid me of my social anxiety and helps with depression. Without the social anxiety, I don't live in constant fear of social interactions and just live. You have to be patient with this medication. You have to accept that the period of your body adjusting to it is going to be hell. It can also be frustrating because I did have the hypomania in the beginning, which felt great, but when it subsides you feel like the medication has stopped working. You need to give it time for its full effect to be realized.
> 
> No one should ever say any medication is over-rated. While any given medication may not work for one person, it has likely saved the life of another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did that really work for you? Bc Nardil is amazing for my anxiety but I'm thinking of switching to cymbalta just bc I can't tolerate the muscle pain


----------



## V1bzz

CascadeII said:


> I just skimmed through this thread (and then had to re-register because the forgot password request function is not working for me).
> 
> I've been on Nardil for over four years. I had many failed attempts the first year all caused by raising the dosage too quickly. After a year I decided to try a new approach. I started at 15 mg and decided to only increase once my body tolerated that amount and the side effects subsided. It turned out that it would take a month. After each month, I would increase it by another 15 mg. After four months I was steady at my targeted 60 mg with no side effects. I can't say those four months were fun. With each increase I would deal with a new round of hypotension (helped by using an abdominal binder), horrible insomnia, and generally just feeling like crap. During that period I had no energy and could not walk far. After the four months though all issues went away. The medication completely rid me of my social anxiety and helps with depression. Without the social anxiety, I don't live in constant fear of social interactions and just live. You have to be patient with this medication. You have to accept that the period of your body adjusting to it is going to be hell. It can also be frustrating because I did have the hypomania in the beginning, which felt great, but when it subsides you feel like the medication has stopped working. You need to give it time for its full effect to be realized.
> 
> No one should ever say any medication is over-rated. While any given medication may not work for one person, it has likely saved the life of another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yay another Nardil success story. thanks for letting us know here in this thread. The side effects truly are a nightmare, its hard to tell if its actually started working when you feel so crap all day.
Looking forward to better days and these kinds of posts help greatly. Thanks


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Did that really work for you? Bc Nardil is amazing for my anxiety but I'm thinking of switching to cymbalta just bc I can't tolerate the muscle pain


Have you tried Vitamin D and B to help with this? I find it helps. It generally only gets me now when i'm having the muscle fatigue day, such a horrible thing!

I've been dropping Pro plus today to help with the eye tiredness and fatigue, it helps a little.

I think the vits also help the hypotension if you are still in that stage? well it helps on the normal days.

I always class my days in that its either going to be a severe hypotension day or severe muscle fatigue day. Today is hypotension day for me. The vits do help but i think on the day like today there really isn't much you can do. Sucks donkey balls that's for sure!


----------



## rm123

V1bzz said:


> rm123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did that really work for you? Bc Nardil is amazing for my anxiety but I'm thinking of switching to cymbalta just bc I can't tolerate the muscle pain
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried Vitamin D and B to help with this? I find it helps. It generally only gets me now when i'm having the muscle fatigue day, such a horrible thing!
> 
> I've been dropping Pro plus today to help with the eye tiredness and fatigue, it helps a little.
Click to expand...

I take gabapentin to help, but it makes me so sleepy and drunk-like, so I dnt know if it's appropriate for every day (I start a new job soon)


----------



## rm123

rm123 said:


> V1bzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rm123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did that really work for you? Bc Nardil is amazing for my anxiety but I'm thinking of switching to cymbalta just bc I can't tolerate the muscle pain
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried Vitamin D and B to help with this? I find it helps. It generally only gets me now when i'm having the muscle fatigue day, such a horrible thing!
> 
> I've been dropping Pro plus today to help with the eye tiredness and fatigue, it helps a little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I take gabapentin to help, but it makes me so sleepy and drunk-like, so I dnt know if it's appropriate for every day (I start a new job soon)
Click to expand...

I've tried multivitamins, magnesium and something that says it helps muscle and joint pain. Nothing helped


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> I've tried multivitamins, magnesium and something that says it helps muscle and joint pain. Nothing helped


Man that sucks. Have you tried cannabis oil? really good for pain but its an expensive habit.

Good luck with the new job, hope the pain doesn't cause you too much hastle!


----------



## Sweeto

Ok I'm on 90mg - 3 weeks and 2 days.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Ok I'm on 90mg - 3 weeks and 2 days.


That the time since you started Nardil?


----------



## Sweeto

Yes, I was on 75 mg about 10 days. Do you see any progress with you btw?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Yes, I was on 75 mg about 10 days. Do you see any progress with you btw?


I'm not sure to be honest, I think that maybe 5% its helping, it's taking a very slight edge off, its really hard to tell for sure because I feel like crap every day.

I've been on it about 5/6 weeks or so total but started on 45mg for 2 weeks. 60 for 3 weeks and now 1 week at 75 so yeah about 6 weeks.

I expected more by now.


----------



## 546617

when are you changing brand??


----------



## V1bzz

If this is the 45mg working (if its working at all) it should be fun once the 75 kicks in. I can see myself maybe having to go up to 105mg if this is it for 45.

Its so innefective its hard to know for sure if its the nardil 45 or im just having a goodish run


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> when are you changing brand??


Don't think there is an option to change brand in the UK?
I will give archimedes lots more time yet for each dose to fully get in my system. I guess I will know when that happens cos I will stop feeling like crap.


----------



## 546617

V1bzz said:


> Don't think there is an option to change brand in the UK?
> I will give archimedes lots more time yet for each dose to fully get in my system. I guess I will know when that happens cos I will stop feeling like crap.


when my doc was gonna choose the nardil brand for me on the computer I saw like 3 different Nardil on the list. you have to speak to whoever gave you nardil to look if theres other brands avalibale . I dont live in UK but its not too far away from sweden so I would assume you have the same options


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> when my doc was gonna choose the nardil brand for me on the computer I saw like 3 different Nardil on the list. you have to speak to whoever gave you nardil to look if theres other brands avalibale . I dont live in UK but its not too far away from sweden so I would assume you have the same options


Cheers. Just received a letter from my doc telling me i need to make an appointment for a blood test and to get my bp checked. Not sure what the blood test is for?

I will ask her then if she has options of different suppliers and once the 75mg has kicked in, if its not working will try different brand then


----------



## V1bzz

I think the lower dose maybe slowly starting to kick in for me now. If it wasn't for the hypotension and stoned eyes I think i'm feeling pretty good today. Have mild sensations of niceness going through my body.

Could be the dopamine release though as I take all 5 first thing in the morning now. I found spreading the dose not to be beneficial for me to stopping the sides.

If it is just starting to kick in that's 6 weeks at 45 so expect the same for the 60 and 75 before i may or may not start to feel something from the higher dosing.

I sure hope this is the 45mg just starting to work, I will let you guys know as the days pass.

I also feel like my libido is slowly returning, hot women are starting to make me horny again lol


----------



## Sweeto

Great news! Do you feel antidepressant effects or relief in social anxiety?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Great news! Do you feel antidepressant effects or relief in social anxiety?


I wasn't really depressed any way. Just the kinda depressed thoughts that come with anxiety. Last time I got severely depressed was in 2012, it was not a good time and it took me a few yrs to recover. I went through it med free. Got so sick that when I came out of the black hole I said that I would never get ill like that again. Thank fully so far I haven't. Touch wood.

The anxiety is still there because of how bad i'm feeling and looking like i have stoned misty eyes. That in itself causes me anxiety when I go out because its very noticable to me. I just have a mild nice feeling in my body today and i feel like the edge has been ever so slightly taken off. I noticed it a couple of times when having to talk to people. I didn't think what to say as much and just spoke. it was refreshing noticing after. I still feel really uncomfortable though.

I'm hoping this is the 45mg just starting to start working and the start of my nardil journey. I will only know for sure over the next week or two i guess as it should keep improving.


----------



## Sweeto

Nice I'm glad for you. Do you think about raising your dosage to 90 or take 6 pieces at once?


----------



## 546617

my guess is the blood test she just wanna see if you're healthy and nardil aint damaging you since it's a strong med.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Nice I'm glad for you. Do you think about raising your dosage to 90 or take 6 pieces at once?


I'm going to leave it at 75mg for a few weeks and see how it goes once all the doses have kicked in


----------



## V1bzz

KurdishFella said:


> my guess is the blood test she just wanna see if you're healthy and nardil aint damaging you since it's a strong med.


Cheers. Yeah hopefully it's not fcuking me up lol


----------



## V1bzz

These vitamin D really are a life saver. the tiredness is still there but they just keep me able to stay up and keep going! no afternoon nap today and only got 3hrs sleep last night (by choice. stayed up till 3.30am and got up at 7am)

Pretty sure it's helping with the hypotension and no2 also. Winner!

It's good sh1t man :grin2:


----------



## rm123

Might give them a try! Just woke up from my afternoon nap haha


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Might give them a try! Just woke up from my afternoon nap haha


haha >


----------



## V1bzz

V1bzz said:


> *Day 25
> Day 8 at 60mg*When I have to get up during the night it's a task, I have to take it slow as not to fall down the stairs lol


^^^ this has returned for me, last night was really bad when I got up durig the night. Wondering if there is some sort of pattern here I should be noticing.

Maybe a month or so on a new dose, is it about a month since I have been on 60? pretty sure it's round about that.

(update - yes this started happening to me at about 4 an half weeks at 45mg. So guessing this effect is from the 60mg doing whatever its doing to my brain)

Lets see if I get it again around the 20th april or shortly after as that will be 1 month on 75mg.

It's really troubling that feeling during the night when I wake up. I woke up all negative this morning because of it, it was so intense last night that I nearly fell over. You feel like a total bag of crap when it's happening too. really not nice at all!


----------



## Sweeto

Hmm I hope it will get better! What about your SA?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hmm I hope it will get better! What about your SA?


I know this sounds weird but I feel less uncomfortable when I smoke at the window. It's hard to explain but i used to feel really open and noticable but now i don't care so much if people drive past or park or whatever.

I'm not really getting out much to notice in social situations as I'm still feeling really head tired and hypo. Muscle fatigue is alot better since taking the pro plus, it also helps with the daytime hypotension and keeps me abit more alert mentally.

The eye tiredness is the hardest thing at the moment to deal with. I get glazed eyes and just look stoned lol
I don't think, until these side effects let up, that i'm really going to be able to get a good idea of where I am anxiety wise as feeling like this and looking stoned makes me feel anxious in itself when i go out. Know what I mean?


----------



## V1bzz

I have terrible postural hypotension today.
Thought it best to go to the doctors and use the BP machine they have there.

*90/59* - Lowest so far!


----------



## Sweeto

I know but fortunately I don't experience these feelings so far. Beside constipation I'm unable to have orgasm. Btw my average BP is 115/60. Few days ago I had 110/38 so I was scared of it but I got better next days.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> I have terrible postural hypotension today.
> Thought it best to go to the doctors and use the BP machine they have there.
> 
> *90/59* - Lowest so far!


I was at that level or lower for well over a month. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I know but fortunately I don't experience these feelings so far. Beside constipation I'm unable to have orgasm. Btw my average BP is 115/60. Few days ago I had 110/38 so I was scared of it but I got better next days.


I've actually had pretty good hypo for the last two weeks with it being a mild spell here and there. I truly believe this is because the 60mg dose is attaching to my brain or whatever it does lol. Last time, which wasn't as bad I got it was from the 45mg doing the same.

it is the worst so far today, i'm worried what 75mg is going to do to me once it kicks in. I literally can't stand up today. when I do the whole time my head spins, i get ringing in my ears or a buzzing sound and my vision goes as if i'm going to faint. I have to keep sitting down.

Yeah I also have anorgasmia whatever its called. Really sucks.

I'm also finding it very difficult to urinate today but I think thats just because when i'm on my feet i'm in a constant 'im going to faint' feeling. Hard to concentrate feeling like that haha.


----------



## V1bzz

DRUGSAREnotGOOD said:


> I was at that level or lower for well over a month. I wouldn't worry about it.


Hey, thanks for letting me know. it is very troubling to experience it as intense as it is today. I know though it's a good sign. I am really worried about if i'm going to be able to physically take it once the 75mg kicks in though as i'm right at the edge today. So close to fainting.


----------



## Sweeto

I've decided that I go back to 75mg tomorrow. Side effects are brutal and I did well on 75mg.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I've decided that I go back to 75mg tomorrow. Side effects are brutal and I did well on 75mg.


Yeah I can imagine. what sides did you get at 90?


----------



## Sweeto

I'm terribly hungry all the time, fatigue, no orgasm and dangerously low BP


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I'm terribly hungry all the time, fatigue, no orgasm and dangerously low BP


Are you also being light headed from the low bp? its not nice i know, if you are.

Sounds like it's kicking in for you. have you had sides before this? i can't remember


----------



## Sweeto

No light headed at all but I feel I have very low BP though.

For a long time I didn't have any side effects. They kicked in when I reached 75, but it was still manageable there. At 90 i cannot function so I hope it's ok to go back to 75.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> No light headed at all but I feel I have very low BP though.
> 
> For a long time I didn't have any side effects. They kicked in when I reached 75, but it was still manageable there. At 90 i cannot function so I hope it's ok to go back to 75.


I think it's maybe for the best to go back down to 75 until you know it has fully kicked in. Then once the mild side effects go you can decide to go up or not.

All we do know is that we don't really know how long each dose takes to fully kick in. Best to be safe than sorry I think.

I'm wondering if the side effects are the 45mg kicking in? so you will soon get the 60mg sides then the 75.
Im on the 60 sides now. not looking forward to what i hope i'm not going to get at 75mg lol


----------



## SFC01

Hope things improve soon @Sweeto and @V1bzz

I had a load spare so I'm up at 90mg at the mo before the they go past end date.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hope things improve soon @Sweeto and @V1bzz
> 
> I had a load spare so I'm up at 90mg at the mo before the they go past end date.


Cheers me too mate @SFC01 , yesterday was not fun at all. Hoping for more positive effects to start happening soon 

Yay the tag worked 

So far the hypotension seems ok today. hoping today is my day off from it lol


----------



## V1bzz

Not feeling too bad side effects wise so far but thought i would go get my BP done just for the crack.

Was expecting it to be way up from yesterday but it's actually fallen some more :O

Wtf man!!

*87/59*

I did it 3 times and kept the best reading. one actually came back as *77/56*

Should I start thinking about making a doctors appointment sooner than the one I have on the 18th April?


----------



## Sweeto

SFC: thx mate!
V1bzz: your BP is crazy! If I were you I would visit GP asap. Btw any progress with your SA? Most users who take 60mg is doing pretty well on Nardil and it seems to be enough so we'll? see how it goes...

Anyway you're on Nardil for a really long time so you should feel something


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> SFC: thx mate!
> V1bzz: your BP is crazy! If I were you I would visit GP asap. Btw any progress with your SA? Most users who take 60mg is doing pretty well on Nardil and it seems to be enough so we'll? see how it goes...
> 
> Anyway you're on Nardil for a really long time so you should feel something


Hey, no not really. I am getting something but very mild. I had to walk into a busy waiting room to take my bp today and nearly didnt do it because i knew there would be alot of people there.
Did do it and noticed I was able to not have to look at people to get to the machine, felt really anxious still though. I didn't turn into a wreck though so i guess something is going on.

I hope this stuff bloody kicks in soon. I do hope i'm not going through all this **** for nothing :frown2:


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto @SFC01

My side effects are a hell of alot better today. I'm hoping this continues. I'm just abit shaky and weak. :wink2:

Was expecting today to be the same as normal when I got intense postural hypotension about an hour after my meds but as far as i can remember maybe two times max i've had it again since but very very mildly. Was also expecting to use the toilet and have the usual battle to have #1 and #2 but booyakashan everything worked perfectly. I was in shock lol. :O

There is something different sides wise today, hoping this is me past that nasty sh1t! :grin2:

It's great feeling semi normal today 8)


----------



## SFC01

Good to hear mate !! at least no backing up for 2 weeks on #2 - I`m glad


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Good to hear mate !! at least no backing up for 2 weeks on #2 - I`m glad


:haha yeah that was not good


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto I got the nardil hunger for first time today. Looks like i'm gunna get fatter with these hunger pains. huff!


----------



## V1bzz

*2 Weeks at 75mg
5 weeks at 60*

No point doing an update of how I feel because with this hypotension and weakness it's quite impossible to tell.
I would say though from encounters i've had, while experiencing hypotension or not, maybe a 5-10% improvement. Very slightly noticeable.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

The more side effects you are feeling, you better it is working. I am 100% sure of this.


----------



## V1bzz

@Paisano hi, does the hypotension go away? i mean, it is a sign that the meds are kicking in. once a dose is kicked in does it go.
I still have 75mg to kick in yet and want to know that i can tell its working when the hypo goes? or will this ****e always be with me on nardil?


----------



## Sweeto

5-10% improvement is nothing :-(, don't you think about raising your dosage to 90?

That's the way I feel, I'm hungry 24/7 and have gained 10kg/4 weeks lol. I don't really know what to do with it but if I continue to eat this way, I'll be so fat

Do you still have any side effects beside hypotension?


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> @Paisano hi, does the hypotension go away? i mean, it is a sign that the meds are kicking in. once a dose is kicked in does it go.
> I still have 75mg to kick in yet and want to know that i can tell its working when the hypo goes? or will this ****e always be with me on nardil?


It definitely goes away. I just took 75 mg of Nardil and felt no hypotension. At first, it was scary falling down, but it started to feel good to me. I sort of enjoyed being lighted head and falling down. I miss some of the crazy effects.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> 5-10% improvement is nothing :-(, don't you think about raising your dosage to 90?
> 
> That's the way I feel, I'm hungry 24/7 and have gained 10kg/4 weeks lol. I don't really know what to do with it but if I continue to eat this way, I'll be so fat
> 
> Do you still have any side effects beside hypotension?


Hypotension and still the muscle fatigue, it's exhausting. also sometimes it's really difficult to urinate.
The instense hypotension when i wake up during the night is still there but last night it was different, i don't know how to explain it, as it was a really negative feeling in my body but it troubled me greatly. I had to sit in the room with the light on for abit it troubled my mind that much. Hope for that to never happen again!

I've just bought myself a load of Lucozade sport to see if that helps with this hypo.


----------



## V1bzz

Paisano said:


> It definitely goes away. I just took 75 mg of Nardil and felt no hypotension. At first, it was scary falling down, but it started to feel good to me. I sort of enjoyed being lighted head and falling down. I miss some of the crazy effects.


OMG :lol:haha:haha


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> Hypotension and still the muscle fatigue, it's exhausting. also sometimes it's really difficult to urinate.
> The instense hypotension when i wake up during the night is still there but last night it was different, i don't know how to explain it, as it was a really negative feeling in my body but it troubled me greatly. I had to sit in the room with the light on for abit it troubled my mind that much. Hope for that to never happen again!
> 
> I've just bought myself a load of Lucozade sport to see if that helps with this hypo.


Where are you feeling discomfort? I remember for four days before I had my nervous breakdown, I felt this dull pain in my stomach.


----------



## V1bzz

Paisano said:


> Where are you feeling discomfort? I remember for four days before I had my nervous breakdown, I felt this dull pain in my stomach.


It was just a one off so far. I really can't put into words what it was, have never experienced anything like that before. It was a thought and feeling, something horrific but i don't know what. I wish I could explain it better. I was truly disturbed by it though.

Last night was completely different, had a great sleep and didnt wake up every hour or two needing to take a piss that took me ages to do cos i had to concentrate so hard.

When the cat woke me up about 4am to let him out I got up and walked around bent over like an old man with just one eye open lol. it helped big time with the hypotension.


----------



## V1bzz

I feel pretty good today. No hypotension so far but can feel fatigue starting to kick in. So nice not spinning out every 2 minutes lol


----------



## Sweeto

But the most important is if you still have SA. I'm week 4 with no improvement yet


----------



## SFC01

@Sweeto and @V1bzz , how long are you going to stick with the nardil ? What are your options if it doesn't work out?


----------



## rm123

I've finally found the best way is to take one pill every 3-4hrs. Apart from some muscle fatigue, I feel gooood!!! My SA is gone!


----------



## SFC01

@rm123, great to hear


----------



## Sweeto

SFC: I hope it will work and I rather don't think about it... I've read that it lasts 5-6 weeks to kick in in average


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @Sweeto and @V1bzz , how long are you going to stick with the nardil ? What are your options if it doesn't work out?


I still think it's early days. only been 2 weeks for the 75mg yet 

My hypotension has been really good all day so far. Pretty confident it is because I am now drinking Lucozade sport 3 times a day :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> I've finally found the best way is to take one pill every 3-4hrs. Apart from some muscle fatigue, I feel gooood!!! My SA is gone!


 @rm123 how long have you been taking it now and at what dose?
Great news, i feel kinda jealous!! lol


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> SFC: I hope it will work and I rather don't think about it... I've read that it lasts 5-6 weeks to kick in in average


Your the same as me, I just can't think about this not working!

I have read on this forum some folks who have alot of experience with nardil saying it can take up to two months to start working so not to give up on it like many others have. This is another hope to hold on to for me. I just can't bare to think of this not being 'the one' :'(


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I still think it's early days. only been 2 weeks for the 75mg yet
> 
> My hypotension has been really good all day so far. Pretty confident it is because I am now drinking Lucozade sport 3 times a day :nerd:


LOL I'm glad you guys are a couple weeks ahead of me so I know what to expect and what to do if I experience hypotension. And when it eventually kicks in for you, I'll have extra incentive to hang in there.

Are you planning on staying at 75 till it kicks in? Initially I was planning on staying with 60 till the effects become noticeable, but is that too low? Tomorrow I'm starting 30. :yes


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> LOL I'm glad you guys are a couple weeks ahead of me so I know what to expect and what to do if I experience hypotension. And when it eventually kicks in for you, I'll have extra incentive to hang in there.
> 
> Are you planning on staying at 75 till it kicks in? Initially I was planning on staying with 60 till the effects become noticeable, but is that too low? Tomorrow I'm starting 30. :yes


Hoping you feel the effects quickly without too many sides.
It's only week 2 for me on 75 so will give it more weeks. I may go up to 90mg soon. Will leave it until the 18th when i have a doctors appointment. She is prolly gunna go ape that im at 75mg haha. I went up from 45 to 60 to 75 on my own accord. I for sure know more about Nardil than her though.

So how many weeks were you on 15mg?

p.s so were the guinea pigs? haha :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Dosing wise I would say go with how you feel. All depends i guess what does it kicks in for you and how bad the sides are if any.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Hoping you feel the effects quickly without too many sides.
> It's only week 2 for me on 75 so will give it more weeks. I may go up to 90mg soon. Will leave it until the 18th when i have a doctors appointment. She is prolly gunna go ape that im at 75mg haha. I went up from 45 to 60 to 75 on my own accord. I for sure know more about Nardil than her though.
> 
> So how many weeks were you on 15mg?
> 
> p.s so were the guinea pigs? haha :grin2:


I think we all know more about Nardil than 90% of doctors out there. :grin2: Even the pharmacist I called didn't know anything about it and kept putting me on hold to look up answers, probably just googled it.

I've been on 15mg for 10 days. I was going to start 30 tomorrow but just decided I might as well take 1 now. I just finished a big dinner (I'm extra hungry these days), then plan to go for a run in about 2 hours. I just googled "Nardil on full stomach" and as expected got conflicting information ... just like everything else regarding Nardil. My gut is telling to take it now rather than right before my run. So here goes my first 30mg/day. Wish me luck!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I think we all know more about Nardil than 90% of doctors out there. :grin2: Even the pharmacist I called didn't know anything about it and kept putting me on hold to look up answers, probably just googled it.
> 
> I've been on 15mg for 10 days. I was going to start 30 tomorrow but just decided I might as well take 1 now. I just finished a big dinner (I'm extra hungry these days), then plan to go for a run in about 2 hours. I just googled "Nardil on full stomach" and as expected got conflicting information ... just like everything else regarding Nardil. My gut is telling to take it now rather than right before my run. So here goes my first 30mg/day. Wish me luck!


You will be fine but good luck for your nardil 30mg journey :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

@rm123 stop teasing me and bloody tell me what dose you are on and for how long? :grin2:>


----------



## rm123

V1bzz said:


> @rm123 stop teasing me and bloody tell me what dose you are on and for how long?


Ohh my apologies  I'm on 60mg but it's been a year, so you would expect it to be working by now! Try dosing one pill every 3/4hrs, & remember to go up to 60mg fairly quickly!! Good luck


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Ohh my apologies  I'm on 60mg but it's been a year, so you would expect it to be working by now! Try dosing one pill every 3/4hrs, & remember to go up to 60mg fairly quickly!! Good luck


haha thats ok, was only playing.

How many weeks were you on 60mg when it kicked in?

I've been on 60mg 5 weeks now and 75mg for 2 weeks.

I don't really want to say because I don't want to jinx myself but I think the hypotension may have passed. I just get it when i get up during the night. Constipation is back abit, still hard to urinate from evening onwards. Anorgasmia/inorgasmia whatever you bloody call it, sucks, but the muscle fatigue and hypotension seems to be fading. touch wood!

I'm hoping now the nardil can finally start to really kick in


----------



## V1bzz

I ttagged all who i could remember, sorry if I missed you.. @rm123 @WillComp @Paisano @Sweeto @SFC01

I've got some good news guys. My hypotension for the last two days has been very very mild. I'm just having a few mild vision disturbance and light head a day.

Now, I went out this morning to the shops and then to the bookies and I can say definitely that the Nardil is finally working. I would say I was at about 40% anxiety inhibited today while I was out. I also have a strange feeling in my body. I'm not great at describing things but it's kinda like a restless feeling in my body, slight body high with a slight feeling of not being all there lol. I am tired though and have mega heavy eyes. I didn't get to sleep till 00:30 and woke up not being able to sleep at 04:45.

I have a feeling what is happening is what I had hoped for weeks. That once the nasty side effects started to die off the Nardil effects would be able to start shining through.

Today is a good day :grin2: when i was in the bookies i would usually sit facing the wall, trying to do whatever i was doing with intense awareness of everyone around me. feeling too uncomfortable to turn around to face the open room and all the people. Sit there for 20 minutes just trying to build up the confidence to walk out or whatever. Today I kinda didn't give a sh1t. I was in my own little world lol.

Today is genuinly the first day since I started Nardil that I can definitely say it's starting to work!! :grin2::grin2::nerd::grin2:>

By the way, thats about 8 weeks at 45mg, 5 weeks at 60mg and 2 weeks at 75mg.
So guys don't give up, it may take a while like it has with me, 2 months and it's just starting to work.
I know it's going to get better too as this maybe just the 45 and slight effects of 60 i'm getting. I think it's too early for full effects of 60 and defo for 75 :grin2::grin2:

P.s I had to go back to taking the whole dose at once after trying for a few days to spread it out. 
I take it shortly after waking up. I was finding that I couldnt remember what I had taken. Easier for me just to do it all at once so I knew for sure.


----------



## Sweeto

Nice news! Do you have any kind of euphoria or something similar? And what about your ability to have orgasm?

I've got hypotension the last days, in average I have 105/50


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Nice news! Do you have any kind of euphoria or something similar? And what about your ability to have orgasm?
> 
> I've got hypotension the last days, in average I have 105/50


I still have hypotension but mild spells now, also same with the muscle fatigue but figured that could be connected to the hypo?

Yeah i had a slight body high all day today. I'm abit naughty, decided to drop another 15mg late this afternoon to see if it took away the tired eyes feeling. It didn't, just made me have the kinda high feelings i used t get when i first started on the 60mg.
I still can't orgasm and its doing my head in because my libido has returned and i feel horny lol. It's been about 4-6 weeks now since i've been unable dammit. Maybe longer!
I'm also still abit constipated and find it hard to urinate. it just starts and stops and its hard to get going again sometimes. The worst hypotension I get now is trying to take a sh1t lmfao. pushing too hard and i nearly faint lol.

Sweeto don't lose the faith man, it's still well early days for you and I think if it can work on me it can work on anyone. I think my anxiety issues are so complex that it's difficult for anything to do the job. Don't forget that the hypotension is a great sign too that its doing stuff on your brain to fix you. You may feel it as I have once the side effects start to go.I'm still far from feeling normal but it's just great not to nearly faint every time i stand up.

Looking forward to hitting higher % inhibition now with the anxiety. It will be such a relief!

p.s I know my blood pressure is still low as i feel cold all the bloody time. Especially after taking the meds in the morning.


----------



## rm123

More boasting on my part: I have no problem achieving orgasm. Goo Nardil!!!


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> More boasting on my part: I have no problem achieving orgasm. Goo Nardil!!!


:mum:wife:steam:x:spank:duel:bash

>


----------



## V1bzz

The hypotension has kicked back in for me today. Im guessing and hoping this is the 60mg starting to do it's thing.
I think the fatigue is connected to the hypotension. It makes me feel exhausted!


----------



## Sweeto

Thx, hope it will get better soon. I don't care so much for hypotension, it's better to give your heart rest than to have hypertension 200/100. But for fatigue could be modafinil the best choice for you.

I hate inability to achieve orgasm, I don't feel as a man and I've never thought that I would became impotent one day. My desire to have sex is still there but its absolutely impossible.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Thx, hope it will get better soon. I don't care so much for hypotension, it's better to give your heart rest than to have hypertension 200/100. But for fatigue could be modafinil the best choice for you.
> 
> I hate inability to achieve orgasm, I don't feel as a man and I've never thought that I would became impotent one day. My desire to have sex is still there but its absolutely impossible.


Yeah it really sucks. I couldn't even get an erection at one point for a couple of weeks, my libido was totally gone! My libido has dropped massively since yesterday too.
With the not being able to orgasm thing, it will pass. I think its something we just have to deal with right now to get better but it will return and we will be riding like a horse lol. I think i quite possibly have the heaviest balls in the world right now, thinking of contacting guiness. :lol


----------



## V1bzz

My constipation has lifted again today. #2 at least 4 times. 
I wonder if i'm seeing a pattern?. 
I had it when I was on 45 then it stopped after a week or two, wonder if this is the signal the 60mg is kicking in? 
The 75 constipation is coming next if i'm right lol...and the hypotension and fatigue.

Actually hoping that this is just a sign my body has got used to the meds and the sides will settle down now so i can enjoy the 60 and 75 kicking in.


----------



## CascadeII

rm123 said:


> Did that really work for you? Bc Nardil is amazing for my anxiety but I'm thinking of switching to cymbalta just bc I can't tolerate the muscle pain


It does really work. I can't imagine life without it. Every time I start lowering the dosage, the social anxiety comes back and I am reminded of how excruciating life was before that. That said, I am having horrible muscle pain too. I had been attributing it to another medical condition, but it just dawned on me that it might be the Nardil and I came back on here and saw this. Do other people have issues with muscle pain? What are your symptoms @rm123? I have horrible leg cramps to the point I can't sleep. I once read a study that said Nardil could be used to combat leg cramps, but I now fear it could be the culprit.


----------



## Sweeto

My experience is that you have to eat as much fiber as possible to avoid constipation. I'm on 75mg over 3 weeks and if I eat enough fiberfood (beans etc) so there is no problem with it.


----------



## rm123

CascadeII said:


> rm123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did that really work for you? Bc Nardil is amazing for my anxiety but I'm thinking of switching to cymbalta just bc I can't tolerate the muscle pain
> 
> 
> 
> It does really work. I can't imagine life without it. Every time I start lowering the dosage, the social anxiety comes back and I am reminded of how excruciating life was before that. That said, I am having horrible muscle pain too. I had been attributing it to another medical condition, but it just dawned on me that it might be the Nardil and I came back on here and saw this. Do other people have issues with muscle pain? What are your symptoms @rm123? I have horrible leg cramps to the point I can't sleep. I once read a study that said Nardil could be used to combat leg cramps, but I now fear it could be the culprit.
Click to expand...

Leg muscles and arm muscles are the worst. Had to quit a fast faced job bc I was always late, it was at the top of a hill & I couldn't make it up without crying. None of the nsaids the doc had given me help, paracetemol doesn't help, even tramadol wears off quickly. The only slight relief has been from gabapentin but then that worsens fatigue.

I am in the process of BEGGING my gp for modafinil or Wellbutrin bc anxiety wise I have never felt better in my life & I know if I come off Nardil it'll come back. I can't go through anxiety again :-(


----------



## SFC01

rm123 said:


> I am in the process of BEGGING my gp for modafinil or Wellbutrin bc anxiety wise I have never felt better in my life & I know if I come off Nardil it'll come back. I can't go through anxiety again :-(


Have you tried any supplements at all? acetyl l carnitine can noticeably increase energy and has been studied for its anti anhedonia effects.
@V1bzz, glad to hear you are noticing some benefits - can you still feel them ?


----------



## rm123

SFC01 said:


> rm123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am in the process of BEGGING my gp for modafinil or Wellbutrin bc anxiety wise I have never felt better in my life & I know if I come off Nardil it'll come back. I can't go through anxiety again :-(
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried any supplements at all? acetyl l carnitine can noticeably increase energy and has been studied for its anti anhedonia effects.
> @V1bzz, glad to hear you are noticing some benefits - can you still feel them ?
Click to expand...

I'm taking multivitamins with b3, 6 & 12 which seems to have helped. Idk, the side effects don't seem great - fishy scent to breath or sweat?? I dnt think so lol?


----------



## rm123

rm123 said:


> SFC01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rm123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am in the process of BEGGING my gp for modafinil or Wellbutrin bc anxiety wise I have never felt better in my life & I know if I come off Nardil it'll come back. I can't go through anxiety again :-(
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried any supplements at all? acetyl l carnitine can noticeably increase energy and has been studied for its anti anhedonia effects.
> @V1bzz, glad to hear you are noticing some benefits - can you still feel them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm taking multivitamins with b3, 6 & 12 which seems to have helped. Idk, the side effects don't seem great - fishy scent to breath or sweat?? I dnt think so lol?
Click to expand...

That question mark was meant to be a smiley, just so u know I'm not being rude!! I literally appreciate any suggestions so much


----------



## V1bzz

This stuff is defo working for me now. Not where I want it to be but i just found myself talking sh1t to two of the staff in the local supermarket. I would never do that how i was usually.

Good times, can't wait for it to kick in more :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> I'm taking multivitamins with b3, 6 & 12 which seems to have helped. Idk, the side effects don't seem great - fishy scent to breath or sweat?? I dnt think so lol?


Try some vitamin D2/D3, supposed to be really good for muscle fatigue. Not sure about pain relief though.
For the fatigue i get that sounds similar to what you guys have (apart from pain, I just have utter and complete exhaustion) I drop energy tablets like pro plus and drink lucozade sport when its super bad. Seems to Help, also with the hypotension.

@SFC01 most definitely


----------



## Sweeto

How do you feel today? Are you still little high and without anxiety?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> How do you feel today? Are you still little high and without anxiety?


Hey, i'm having a bad side effects day today. hypotension and feeling really physically exhausted so haven't really been out much.
I think it will still be working, i just need much more. I would have liked so anti-depressent type effects which im not getting. You know like feeling happier, more motivated etc. Maybe I am though but just not noticing.

I guess I will be able to give a cleaer picture of where i'm at when these bloody side effects go. i'ts embarrassing and causes me anxiety to just start randomly feeling like i'm going to faint in the shops.
Someone was explaining something to me the other day and it happened ad i just had to stand there and pretend nothing was happening. Felt like i must have looked weird though. I sure felt like sh1t!

Hows it all going with you? Feeling any benefits yet or are the sides too much to tell? my biggest problem right now seems to be uninating in the evenings. I have to concentrate so hard and i just can't go sometimes. I really don't want that!

big test for me will be next tuesday when i have a doctors appoinment. I usually have panic attacks sitting in the waiting room. Will let you all know how it goes


----------



## Captainmycaptain

I recently raised my dose to 105 mg a day. The daytime exhaustion is pretty bad. Does anyone else get stiff legs that are hard to bend when you walk? I find myself at times almost walking like a tin soldier. It's ridiculous.


----------



## V1bzz

Paisano said:


> I recently raised my dose to 105 mg a day. The daytime exhaustion is pretty bad. Does anyone else get stiff legs that are hard to bend when you walk? I find myself at times almost walking like a tin soldier. It's ridiculous.


Yeah I get it quite abit (of course cos i get all the sides). I believe its from the dopamine these meds release throughout the day. Try Vit D and pro plus, it helps some.


----------



## Sweeto

Hey, I'm doing quite well when it comes to side effects. Diastolic pressure is 45-50 in average but beside this and insomnia it's ok.

My mood has lifted and am not so depressed as I was before, but still nothing special. Tomorrow it'll be 5 weeks since the start and about 3.5 weeks on 75mg. No progress with social anxiety yet though.



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel today? Are you still little high and without anxiety?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, i'm having a bad side effects day today. hypotension and feeling really physically exhausted so haven't really been out much.
> I think it will still be working, i just need much more. I would have liked so anti-depressent type effects which im not getting. You know like feeling happier, more motivated etc. Maybe I am though but just not noticing.
> 
> I guess I will be able to give a cleaer picture of where i'm at when these bloody side effects go. i'ts embarrassing and causes me anxiety to just start randomly feeling like i'm going to faint in the shops.
> Someone was explaining something to me the other day and it happened ad i just had to stand there and pretend nothing was happening. Felt like i must have looked weird though. I sure felt like sh1t!
> 
> Hows it all going with you? Feeling any benefits yet or are the sides too much to tell? my biggest problem right now seems to be uninating in the evenings. I have to concentrate so hard and i just can't go sometimes. I really don't want that!
> 
> big test for me will be next tuesday when i have a doctors appoinment. I usually have panic attacks sitting in the waiting room. Will let you all know how it goes
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hey, I'm doing quite well when it comes to side effects. Diastolic pressure is 45-50 in average but beside this and insomnia it's ok.
> 
> My mood has lifted and am not so depressed as I was before, but still nothing special. Tomorrow it'll be 5 weeks since the start and about 3.5 weeks on 75mg. No progress with social anxiety yet though.


That's a good sign. it's supposed to hit the depression first before the anxiety. your time is coming :grin2:
Took 8 weeks for me to feel something so hoping to get alot more effects yet.
Took my BP today and it's still in the hypotension zone. it was *91/58*

I am also having Urinary retention. Really don't want this, I can handle constipation but not being able to do a full piss is worrying me. I've read people have to come off Nardil because it gets so bad. At the moment i'm able to get maybe half out. I will be p1ssing and then it will just randomly stop and thats it, no more is coming out.

I aint coming off nardil because of this, aint happening!

I just wonder how many more side effects I can get. Talk about getting every single one ffs :frown2:


----------



## Sweeto

Mate you should try tamsulosin for urinary retention. In many cases it solves this problem caused by nardil.

Your BP is still crazy mostly systolic. I've got problems only with diastolic which has hit 38 level lol. Was very scared then and since I'm moving between 45-60 so most of the time I have hypotension but it's only the number and I'm feeling great though.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Mate you should try tamsulosin for urinary retention. In many cases it solves this problem caused by nardil.
> 
> Your BP is still crazy mostly systolic. I've got problems only with diastolic which has hit 38 level lol. Was very scared then and since I'm moving between 45-60 so most of the time I have hypotension but it's only the number and I'm feeling great though.


I have docs next tuesday so will ask then. Yeah it seems my systolic is 1 into normal now and my diastolic is 2 below normal. So not too worried. The hypotension has been bearable yesterday and today so far. Muscle fatigue still sucks though. 90/60 i think is the baseline for normal.

Glad you are feeling great. This morning I was feeling abit depressed thinking the meds aren't working because i'm not feeling happier or any anti depression effects. My anxiety has definitely improved but still have a long way to go to being able to have any kind of normal life. I just hope it keeps improving and I don't have to take more.

My doc is already going to be pissed at me for going above 45 (i think). I will try to assure her that I know what i'm doing and that the starting dose for anxiety really is only around 75 so may need to go up. If it gets hairy I will ask for her email and send her some links to that guy who is the MAOI expert in the world. Just to show her things are going pretty normal. I will give her the link to this forum too so she can read what people who have been taking nardil a long time say about the dosing. They all pretty much say the higher the better too.

Oh for me it's...
*3 Weeks @ 75mg
6 Weeks @ 60mg*

I would like to start thinking about going up to 90mg soon, hoping though the 60 has still got to kick in yet. I started to feel a difference at 8 weeks, hopefully that was just the 45


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> I have docs next tuesday so will ask then. Yeah it seems my systolic is 1 into normal now and my diastolic is 2 below normal. So not too worried. The hypotension has been bearable yesterday and today so far. Muscle fatigue still sucks though. 90/60 i think is the baseline for normal.
> 
> Glad you are feeling great. This morning I was feeling abit depressed thinking the meds aren't working because i'm not feeling happier or any anti depression effects. My anxiety has definitely improved but still have a long way to go to being able to have any kind of normal life. I just hope it keeps improving and I don't have to take more.
> 
> My doc is already going to be pissed at me for going above 45 (i think). I will try to assure her that I know what i'm doing and that the starting dose for anxiety really is only around 75 so may need to go up. If it gets hairy I will ask for her email and send her some links to that guy who is the MAOI expert in the world. Just to show her things are going pretty normal. I will give her the link to this forum too so she can read what people who have been taking nardil a long time say about the dosing. They all pretty much say the higher the better too.
> 
> Oh for me it's...
> *3 Weeks @ 75mg
> 6 Weeks @ 60mg*
> 
> I would like to start thinking about going up to 90mg soon, hoping though the 60 has still got to kick in yet. I started to feel a difference at 8 weeks, hopefully that was just the 45


If you have enough pills, I would avoid telling your psychiatrist that. Nothing pisses off a psychiatrist more than changing your dose without telling them. We all know more about dosing than 99 percent of doctors, but they still have their ridiculous egos.

My exhaustion is completely out of control. I dropped down my dose to 75 mg a night. I am not sure how long it takes a person to adjust to a lower dose of Nardil. I am curious when the exhaustion of being on 90-105 mg will go away now that I'm at a lower dose.

In addition to the exhaustion, when I pee it is a deep yellow color. I supposed I should try to drink more water. Also, I have gained several pounds and it appears to all be in my stomach. My stomach looks like I am nine months pregnant.

The most noteworthy side effects I have experienced happened a good year ago when I was on Nardil. The postural hypotension was so bad that one time I went to the bathroom in the middle of the night, collapsed right before I reached the door. For five minutes, I tried to get up and reach the bathroom door handle to pull me up. I eventually gave up and peed myself. I got a good chuckle out of that. The other significant side effect I experienced was being blinded when I would go from outside to indoors or from indoors to outdoors. When outside, I could only see white for a minute or two and when coming inside once, everything was black and I was feeling around the apartments for door handles in order to find my apartment.


----------



## V1bzz

Paisano said:


> If you have enough pills, I would avoid telling your psychiatrist that. Nothing pisses off a psychiatrist more than changing your dose without telling them. We all know more about dosing than 99 percent of doctors, but they still have their ridiculous egos.
> 
> My exhaustion is completely out of control. I dropped down my dose to 75 mg a night. I am not sure how long it takes a person to adjust to a lower dose of Nardil. I am curious when the exhaustion of being on 90-105 mg will go away now that I'm at a lower dose.
> 
> In addition to the exhaustion, when I pee it is a deep yellow color. I supposed I should try to drink more water. Also, I have gained several pounds and it appears to all be in my stomach. My stomach looks like I am nine months pregnant.
> 
> The most noteworthy side effects I have experienced happened a good year ago when I was on Nardil. The postural hypotension was so bad that one time I went to the bathroom in the middle of the night, collapsed right before I reached the door. For five minutes, I tried to get up and reach the bathroom door handle to pull me up. I eventually gave up and peed myself. I got a good chuckle out of that. The other significant side effect I experienced was being blinded when I would go from outside to indoors or from indoors to outdoors. When outside, I could only see white for a minute or two and when coming inside once, everything was black and I was feeling around the apartments for door handles in order to find my apartment.


Yeah i've also turned into a fatty. about a stone or more but it just seems to be on my stomach. looks so bad, my body isnt used to that look and neither am I.
The vision thing, everytime i have a mild hypotension moment my visio is all speckly, fuzzy and yellow, so hard to see. I also get a buzzing type sound in my ears.

I'm pretty much getting used to walking about half blinded now lol. yeah same about really yellow pee.
I think its hard for me to lie to my doc because they like to give me a month dose at a time, 1 bottle, so me upping my dose even further would be obvious to them i think. still not gunna stop me though if i feel i need to go up. nothing is stopping me this time from getting better. well unless my doc stops prescribing of course lol


----------



## V1bzz

Does anyone know what tablets I can ask for, for this muscle fatigue? it's destroying me. I get exhausted just from driving the car. I know that sounds like i'm joking but i'm not. my legs get so tired. I can't walk 50 metres without feeling like i need to sit down or collapse.

any ideas?


----------



## Sweeto

Maybe baclofen I have a few tablets at home so I will try it.. btw i was also surprised that I had pain in my back when I just walked on the street so nardil is the reason...

I've read nardil feels like extasy when it kicks in so I hope I'll get that feeling lol


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Maybe baclofen I have a few tablets at home so I will try it.. btw i was also surprised that I had pain in my back when I just walked on the street so nardil is the reason...
> 
> I've read nardil feels like extasy when it kicks in so I hope I'll get that feeling lol


Damn i want that feeling too!!! :grin2:

Let me know if those tablets help :smile2:

EDIT - man i just googled Baclofen, I wouldn't risk it. Check out these listed side effects...The common side effects of this drug include headaches, *dizziness*, *drowsiness*, nausea, *low blood pressure*, and *constipation*

Screw that on top of Nardil lol

oh btw my body just decided not to be constipated anymore again. That was me on the toilet for a whole hour non stop ****ting in severe stomach ache pain. That was not fun. Hopefully I lost a few pounds though


----------



## Sweeto

Lol good to know! I'm planning to increase my dosage to 90 mg but I already was there and I was so f.uc.ked up than. That was in fact like another level of side effects and a bigger jump than from 60 to 75.

What about you today? I'm still waiting...


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto

Not really sure tbh, I think I will feel great but this fatigue is keeping me from doing anything. I feel kinda weird today, like slightly high in a way. When i take off a jumper for example i get nice tingles on my skin. I think I feel pretty good today but right now i need to lie own on the bed and rest this aching body of mine and take a nap. My back bloody aches just from sitting at the laptop writing this msg.
My hypotension for the last 3 days has been bearable, its still there but only occasional now is strong enough to make me have to sit down. every time it hits though mild or hard my vision goes to **** and i get a buzzing in my ears. I honestly think it's starting to ease off now finally (hopefully not spoke too soon)

My constipation cleared last night which is good. wasn't good at the time though. I've noticed I am also able to pee nearly all the way during the day. its at night time and through the night its a real struggle and will get half out if lucky.

I am still waking up at 06.30 but the motivation to get up isn't as great as it used to be. I'm still sleeping great though, Literally fast asleep about 10 minutes of getting into bed. I'm guessing the fatigue helps. Thing with the fatigue though is that if I sit down to watch a tv program I have to fight like a mo fo just to stay awake. I had an appointment yesterday and was the same lol.

It's good for night time sleeping but really not ideal for during the day.

Need to find out what meds I can ask for that is safe to go with nardil. i'm pretty sure unless i know when i go to my doc she will say she will have to look up what i can have and to go back in 2 weeks or summin. I really want to get it sorted tuesday. Something that stops this fatigue but isnt going to cause me to not be able to sleep.

I think thats everything lol. sorry for my long posts.


----------



## Sweeto

Probably you're getting better and the most of side effects are disappearing. You could try 90mg for a few days if it's bearable for you. Btw unlike you I have horrible insomnia, this night was nasty I slept for no more than 2 hours and this is lasting for at least 3 weeks, but anyway I've enough energy through the days.

My main side effects:
Little constipation
Horrible anorgasmia
Insomnia
Hypotension
Weight gain (11kg in a month)

You should ask for modafinil to treat fatigue it helps tremendously and in addition it's mood and confidence elevator


----------



## Sweeto

Btw I want to try concerta and am going to my doctor next week. I hope I'll get rx to concerta cos it's under strict control


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Probably you're getting better and the most of side effects are disappearing. You could try 90mg for a few days if it's bearable for you. Btw unlike you I have horrible insomnia, this night was nasty I slept for no more than 2 hours and this is lasting for at least 3 weeks, but anyway I've enough energy through the days.
> 
> My main side effects:
> Little constipation
> Horrible anorgasmia
> Insomnia
> Hypotension
> Weight gain (11kg in a month)
> 
> You should ask for modafinil to treat fatigue it helps tremendously and in addition it's mood and confidence elevator


Thanks, I will ask my doctor for that on Tuesday (after I do some googling about it).
Looking at your side effects it is surely going to kick in at some point for you. I would be careful with your dosing because I can see it all kicking in at once. 75mg boom, high as a kite lol.

The weight thing, I am 81.2kg now 12,7 stone and all of that has gone onto my damn stomach. I look pregnant and am getting on the habit of holding it in when i go around people haha.

Christ my hypotension is severe this evening. I'm finding it hard to even stand up. I get 2 or 3 instense attacks just walking to the kitchen where i have to either sit down or kneel and hold onto something.

Maybe that feeling earlier was a build to this? hopefully this is the 60 kicking in.

Knew i was gunna jinx myself earlier lol
@Sweeto I meant to say have you tried getting some antihistamine, ones that make you really drowsy and take 1 an hour or so before bed? may help you sleep abit more. 
I take one every night before bed and it defo helps me sleep better.


----------



## zeusko87

Sweeto said:


> Btw I want to try concerta and am going to my doctor next week. I hope I'll get rx to concerta cos it's under strict control


I am not trying to dissapoint you but do not expect much from Ritalin/Concerta regarding anxiety.

I have tried isopropylphenidate and ritalin with Nardil but after few days both drugs increased my anxiety and made me angry and irritable.They also produced obsessive thoughts and behavior. I have never tried Adderall but with iso and ritalin there is no euphoria at all. Most of the time it feels like too much caffeine.

Modafinil is much stronger mood booster than both phenidates from my experience. However, isoprophylphenidate works great for keeping you awake and focused.

You can also try Phenylpiracetam. Many people claim it is like "smoother Vyvanse". My experience with PP is very positive but tolerance developes quickly so it is best to take it once or twice per week.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

Sweeto said:


> Btw I want to try concerta and am going to my doctor next week. I hope I'll get rx to concerta cos it's under strict control


Just to add to what Zeus said, I also have never tried concerta with Nardil, but I did take dextroamphetamine for around two weeks while taking around 90 mg of Nardil a night. I was shocked at what happened. I found myself falling down at least forty times a day, I had one seizure, and fainted at least five times, including breaking a glass that I was holding and falling into the shower. I realized that the combination of Nardil and dex was causing this, got off the Nardil and tried dex alone. While the fainting stopped, and my concentration would get better for a few hours, I was in fact quite anxious and irritable, especially as it wore off. I thought the dopamine from dextroamphetamine would at least give me a few hours respite from the anxiety, but that wasn't the case at all.


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> Just to add to what Zeus said, I also have never tried concerta with Nardil, but I did take dextroamphetamine for around two weeks while taking around 90 mg of Nardil a night. I was shocked at what happened. I found myself falling down at least forty times a day, I had one seizure, and fainted at least five times, including breaking a glass that I was holding and falling into the shower. I realized that the combination of Nardil and dex was causing this, got off the Nardil and tried dex alone. While the fainting stopped, and my concentration would get better for a few hours, I was in fact quite anxious and irritable, especially as it wore off. I thought the dopamine from dextroamphetamine would at least give me a few hours respite from the anxiety, but that wasn't the case at all.


Christ you've been through the wars with these different meds!


----------



## V1bzz

Update on how i'm feeling.My anxiety is just its normal self today. Didn't know it until I popped out quickly, seen an old friend of 10yrs or more and felt uncomfortable as hell, not knowing what to say. The usual crap.

I know this is weird but it causes me more anxiety seeing people i know, friends, family than it does a complete stranger. I was in the shops before this and was talking randomly to a woman about pepsi in the shop. So it was working then, obviously just a very small amount of anxiety relief.

I don't think the 75mg has kicked in yet but it should in the next week or two, maybe. if still no improvement im gunna have to go up to 90mg.

Disapointed is not the word, I really expected much more from Nardil. I was wrong about 40%, after today I would say it was 10% and 0% with my weird anxiety situations.

Wondering if i'm going to have to give up on this soon. So long I have put up with every side effect imaginable and still do every single day, yet, still seem to be waiting for the damn stuff to actually work =(


----------



## rm123

V1bzz said:


> Update on how i'm feeling.My anxiety is just its normal self today. Didn't know it until I popped out quickly, seen an old friend of 10yrs or more and felt uncomfortable as hell, not knowing what to say. The usual crap.
> 
> I know this is weird but it causes me more anxiety seeing people i know, friends, family than it does a complete stranger. I was in the shops before this and was talking randomly to a woman about pepsi in the shop. So it was working then, obviously just a very small amount of anxiety relief.
> 
> I don't think the 75mg has kicked in yet but it should in the next week or two, maybe. if still no improvement im gunna have to go up to 90mg.
> 
> Disapointed is not the word, I really expected much more from Nardil. I was wrong about 40%, after today I would say it was 10% and 0% with my weird anxiety situations.
> 
> Wondering if i'm going to have to give up on this soon. So long I have put up with every side effect imaginable and still do every single day, yet, still seem to be waiting for the damn stuff to actually work =(


How long have u been on Nardil ??


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> How long have u been on Nardil ??


8 or 9 weeks 45mg
6 weeks 60mg
3 weeks 75mg


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 @rm123 @zeusko87 @Captainmycaptain

Just a quick question. You know when you take antidepressants, you know when they are starting to work because they make you feel fed up and depressed for a couple of days.

Wondering if Nardil is the same?


----------



## Captainmycaptain

Wish I knew the answer to that. This medication is so unpredictable. Right now, I sleep at least 16 hours a day. The other 8 hours are spent either eating or staring at youtube videos with my eyes half open. I am exhausted with no motivation. I take 60 mg at night and 15 in the morning. Did you go through this period of being absolutely exhausted and did it go away for you?


----------



## rm123

Captainmycaptain said:


> Wish I knew the answer to that. This medication is so unpredictable. Right now, I sleep at least 16 hours a day. The other 8 hours are spent either eating or staring at youtube videos with my eyes half open. I am exhausted with no motivation. I take 60 mg at night and 15 in the morning. Did you go through this period of being absolutely exhausted and did it go away for you?


The exhaustion is hell. Forcing yourself to do the tiniest of exercise might help though, seems to help me. But then it increases the muscle pain side effect :\


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> Wish I knew the answer to that. This medication is so unpredictable. Right now, I sleep at least 16 hours a day. The other 8 hours are spent either eating or staring at youtube videos with my eyes half open. I am exhausted with no motivation. I take 60 mg at night and 15 in the morning. Did you go through this period of being absolutely exhausted and did it go away for you?


Na I still feel exhausted every day. I have massive leg twitches just as im falling asleep that wake me up. my hands shake like i have parkinsons and my legs shake with weakness just walking down the stairs.

I have been feeling abit fed up last couple of days, was hoping it was a sign nardil was starting to work. On antidepreesants I always felt megs fed up and depressed for a few days as they kicked in.

Had nothing like that from nardil really, just every side effect imaginable. Far too much for the benefits i'm getting. Only real benefit so far is my motivation to get up early in the mornings (06:30) every morning, i'm exhausted by 1-2pm though and need to take a nap.

Many people have said in numerous threads that i've read not to give up on nardil, sometimes it takes a long time to work.
I'm on 75mg now though and it's having minimal effect. Only two more doses I can try and that means probably many more months of feeling terrible and not being able to work. I can't go on like this really.

One positive, I have doctors today and hoping she will prescribe me Modafinil so i can get some kind of normal life back while I wait and hope for nardil to finally kick in better than it currently has.
My hypotension is much better again on a daily basis but i know i will have that day where it's hard to stand and gets severe again.

So far Nardil has just made me feel like an old man. Still have hope even after 2 months that good things will come from this. Feel like I may be being foolish and should know when to give up as nothing ever works for me!


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, sorry to hear the side effects are still **** and hopefully you can get the modafanil today, fingers crossed for ya.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, sorry to hear the side effects are still **** and hopefully you can get the modafanil today, fingers crossed for ya.


 @SFC01 you ever tried it mate?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* you ever tried it mate?


No, I haven't tried it yet mate, quite a few others on the board have with some decent results - bit more wakefulness and mood uplift apparently.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> No, I haven't tried it yet mate, quite a few others on the board have with some decent results - bit more wakefulness and mood uplift apparently.


Ah, sounds like exactly what I need I think!


----------



## V1bzz

Ok so went to the doctors, said about the extreme fatigue and falling asleep etc, said i wanted to go higher with nardil cos of minimal positive effects.
She is going to look into it all as well as prescribing me modafinil.

Good news, my BP has gone up. Was abit crazy for a sec cos the doc done it and it was 120 over 91 or summin and she said it's high. I said well how can it be super low to go to that so randomly. She says our bodies change.

Anyhoo I didn't believe that and used the BP machine I have been using in the waiting room on my way out and got a reading of *97/64*. I knew it had gone up because my hypo has been really good for the last couple of days. Looks like it's finally returning to normal.

Taking fibre drinks which is starting to help the constipation.Urinary retention seems to have eased also.

That just leaves me with 1 side effect now and that's the damn muscle fatigue. I honestly don't think she believed or cared when I told her how severe it was. I swear she thinks I just want another med to get high or summin lol. Like yeah, that's what this is all about. I'll do some coke if I want that ffs!

So she is calling me next thursday about my dosing of nardil and also the modafinil. I'm thinking it may be time to transfer to a psych. I really want to go up now the hypotension is going.

Oh in the waiting room I found myself sitting near the door to the doctors as i always do, theres 2 seats with a wall behind kinda seperating the waiting room area abit. Think it's just habit as I had to confidence to ask the lady sitting there if she could move her bag so i could have the other chair and we sat talking for the 30mins i was waiting. I wouldn't have done that normally.

Nardil is working for me, just not at the level I need it to be so far. I still have hope i'm not feeling the 75mg yet as its only been 3 weeks. Heck im hoping only the 45mg has kicked in and i still have 60 + 75 to kick in lol


----------



## SFC01

@*V1bzz* , yeah I've had a few bollockings as well over the years - never one to stick to the prescribed dose !!


----------



## V1bzz

Does anypne here know where I could buy nardil online, same make and is safe. That way i could get the 60 from the docs and just buy a bottle to dose myself more if I want?

Feels dodgy buying it online but if anyone knows of a safe seller that would be cool. Hopefully its not mega expensive!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @*V1bzz* , yeah I've had a few bollockings as well over the years - never one to stick to the prescribed dose !!


Think i'll just have to blag it and say yeh ok i'll go back to 60 then just continue on with what i'm doing. >


----------



## V1bzz

Been reading the threads on this forum again and read it took some members 2 months before they started feeling the proper effects of nardil. I won't give up on it, I will just keep going. What it is doing is better than nothing at the moment, at least I can communicate better with people 

I just wish there was a set pattern so i knew for sure you know.

4-6 weeks i'm sure it used to always take on antidepressants.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> Does anypne here know where I could buy nardil online, same make and is safe. That way i could get the 60 from the docs and just buy a bottle to dose myself more if I want?
> 
> Feels dodgy buying it online but if anyone knows of a safe seller that would be cool. Hopefully its not mega expensive!


Pm me. I know where you can get Gavis no script.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Been reading the threads on this forum again and read it took some members 2 months before they started feeling the proper effects of nardil. I won't give up on it, I will just keep going. What it is doing is better than nothing at the moment, at least I can communicate better with people
> 
> I just wish there was a set pattern so i knew for sure you know.
> 
> 4-6 weeks i'm sure it used to always take on antidepressants.


Good luck, V1bzz! I plan on doing the same thing. I can't see myself giving up. Hopefully in a couple months we'll have experienced a noticeable life changing transformation and life is a lot easier and enjoyable for us. Fingers crossed!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Good luck, V1bzz! I plan on doing the same thing. I can't see myself giving up. Hopefully in a couple months we'll have experienced a noticeable life changing transformation and life is a lot easier and enjoyable for us. Fingers crossed!


That sure sounds good to me. Fingers crossed for everyone waiting for the magic to happen!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Fingers crossed for everyone waiting for the magic to happen!


Here Here mate !! I want to share some of my nardil goodness !!

Good luck to all !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Here Here mate !! I want to share some of my nardil goodness !!
> 
> Good luck to all !!


There you go rubbing it in again :mum >

haha Kidding, thanks mate. Hopefully for us waiting....our time is soon :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> There you go rubbing it in again :mum >
> 
> haha Kidding, thanks mate. Hopefully for us waiting....our time is soon :grin2:


:grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

*7 Weeks @ 60mg
4 Weeks @ 75mg*

Slight improvement in anxiety so far. Taking fibre drinks which is helping with the constipation. Still have muscle fatigue, anorgasmia. The urinary retention is improving. I take my dose in the morning but it seems to effect urinating in the evenings and through the night the most. I can pretty much empty the bladder during the day without too much struggle and deep concentration.
I look like im pregnant so have started doing some abdominal exercises, have also ordered some herbal tablets which is good for bloating and water retention.

My BP went up out of hypotension zone for about 4 days but now it must have dropped again as my hypotension is pretty bad so far today. 
The hypo moments seem to be lasting longer with vision going funny, light headedness and buzzing in ears. Gutted that it's back to be honest, was really nice not having it for a few days. I wonder if this is because another dose is kicking in? the 75mg or hopefully this is just the 60?


----------



## V1bzz

I've noticed that with the hypotension comes the severe muscle fatigue. When it was gone the muscle fatigue was defo less draining.


----------



## V1bzz

Been feeling abit off today so decided to pop down the docs and use their BP machine.

I can't believe what came out. I did it 3 times total just because I thought the machine had broken lol...

*1st - 73/49
2nd - 75/53
3rd - 79/55*

That's the lowest it has ever been. I was back in the normal zone (just) a few days ago.
Is this what happens when you eat something that your not supposed to or does that cause hypertension?

Could this be that the 75mg is starting to kick in? Theres got to be some reason for the sudden return. It's like my body was getting used to whatever the other dose it was getting used to 45? 60? ad now its going even lower because of the 75mg.

What do you think?

Wish I didn't get it done now because it sends a ticket to the nurse or doctor and don't want them all panicking and wanting to take me off nardil. Of course I will refuse so they may stop prescribing


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, the worng food should cause hypertension so its probabaly the 75mg dose that is doing it.

You taking anything else, supplements etc


----------



## rm123

Had to do a lot of walking yesterday and could not get up this morning. Like my arms were physically too weak to push my body up. Was almost crying w frustration.Had to cancel plans w this guy, now he's mad at me, I am sick to death of this fatigue. I might turn on the waterworks at the doctors, do anything to get some sort of stimulant prescribed. If they still refuse I'm definitely going the online route


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, the worng food should cause hypertension so its probabaly the 75mg dose that is doing it.
> 
> You taking anything else, supplements etc


Just some fibre drink for the constipation and I purchased some dehydration drink powder after feeling abit hypo this morning.

You know what though, you would think my hypo was horrendous today with that bp but since this morning it has been totally fine. I just feel abit off with bad fatigue today. I don't feel really cold or anything. shaky hands and legs though.

The machine is broke, it's gotta be lol. Or i'm just used to this sh1t now :smile2:

The reason i went to check my BP was because I was feeling really hot and sweating abit. Very unusual for me since being on nardil....then my bp is super low. Im totally confused right now lol


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Had to do a lot of walking yesterday and could not get up this morning. Like my arms were physically too weak to push my body up. Was almost crying w frustration.Had to cancel plans w this guy, now he's mad at me, I am sick to death of this fatigue. I might turn on the waterworks at the doctors, do anything to get some sort of stimulant prescribed. If they still refuse I'm definitely going the online route


Man that sounds really bad, mine is no where that bad, I don't do long walks though at the moment. it really is a struggle to do 50 metres lol. shouldnt laugh really cos it aint funny feeling like an old man!

Hope your doc sorts you out. mine is ringing me next week hopefully to say i can have modafinil and hopefully not that she wants me to drop my dose to 60mg. that would suck still taking 75 and hoping she don't notice :wink2:


----------



## SFC01

@rm123 and @V1bzz , I know its only a supplement and will not be in the same league as stims or modafanil but magnesium malate has been very good for energy/fatigue and even mood for me when I`m feeling tired.

Had a mad weekend speed binge a couple weeks back and it pulled me through that very nicely.

Have read some success stories as well for magnesium malate on ME/Chronic Fatigue forums

ALCAR (acetyl l carnitine) is another good one I tried but a bit more pricey so I dont use that anymore. This one even got me a bit buzzy when i went too high on it, almost like abilify.

Both have had some good results in studies for this kind of thing.

Just sharing my vast wealth of knowledge haha


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @rm123 and @V1bzz , I know its only a supplement and will not be in the same league as stims or modafanil but magnesium malate has been very good for energy/fatigue and even mood for me when I`m feeling tired.
> 
> Had a mad weekend speed binge a couple weeks back and it pulled me through that very nicely.
> 
> Have read some success stories as well for magnesium malate on ME/Chronic Fatigue forums
> 
> ALCAR (acetyl l carnitine) is another good one I tried but a bit more pricey so I dont use that anymore. This one even got me a bit buzzy when i went too high on it, almost like abilify.
> 
> Both have had some good results in studies for this kind of thing.
> 
> Just sharing my vast wealth of knowledge haha


Sharing is caring :grin2: will get googling!

Cheers mate.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Sharing is caring :grin2: will get googling!
> 
> Cheers mate.


You know me mate, all heart and no side effects:grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Sharing is caring :grin2: will get googling!
> 
> Cheers mate.


while you are googling, check out magnesium threonate - i just have and some people say it was just like ritalin !!!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> while you are googling, check out magnesium threonate - i just have and some people say it was just like ritalin !!!


So which one is best to go for? have found both, first one being about half the price of the other.

I can get get...

Magnesium L-Threonate, 667 mg, 45 Capsules - £9.38
OR
Magnesium Malate 1250 mg. - 90 Tablets - £5.58

Any ideas what mg dosing we are talking about? 2nd one seems best dea to me so far


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> So which one is best to go for? have found both, first one being about half the price of the other.
> 
> I can get get...
> 
> Magnesium L-Threonate, 667 mg, 45 Capsules - £9.38
> OR
> Magnesium Malate 1250 mg. - 90 Tablets - £5.58
> 
> Any ideas what mg dosing we are talking about? 2nd one seems best dea to me so far


I've not tried the threanote, so maybe try the magnesium malate first - I usually take 1 x 1250mg of malate but when I need a boost in energy like recenty after a heavy weekend I upped to 3 a day. The recommended dosage on mine is 3 x 1250mg a day and to be honest I may stick at that dose now.

Does ok for me but obviously no guarantee it will help you, so no refund :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I've not tried the threanote, so maybe try the magnesium malate first - I usually take 1 x 1250mg of malate but when I need a boost in energy like recenty after a heavy weekend I upped to 3 a day. The recommended dosage on mine is 3 x 1250mg a day and to be honest I may stick at that dose now.
> 
> Does ok for me but obviously no guarantee it will help you, so no refund :grin2:


:serious::crying: :mum

:grin2:will try the cheaper ones, see if they help :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

Really don't understand the BP machine at the Docs.
Got it done again today just because it was so dang low yesterday.

I always like to take it 3 times and then go for the middle result.

1st - 81/54
2nd - 93/50
3rd - 97/56

My systolic pressure seems to be all over the place, of course i gave the last one to the receptionist lol


----------



## SFC01

what time did you take these measurements @V1bzz ?


----------



## V1bzz

Umm must of been about 10am ish @SFC01


----------



## SFC01

ok, just wondering if it is a timing issue - the only time my blood pressure was off on nardil was when I had an appointment at 8.45AM, and it was low, although I didnt feel any symptoms at all.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> ok, just wondering if it is a timing issue - the only time my blood pressure was off on nardil was when I had an appointment at 8.45AM, and it was low, although I didnt feel any symptoms at all.


I will have to test that out, next week i'll go in morning and afternoon, see the difference.


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 my BP is all over the place man. At the moment i'm sweating and hot as fcuk and my chest is tight. Bet it aint low now. WTF is going on lol
Gotta be the 75 kicking in I reckon


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* my BP is all over the place man. At the moment i'm sweating and hot as fcuk and my chest is tight. Bet it aint low now. WTF is going on lol
> Gotta be the 75 kicking in a reckon


Lets hope it is kicking in mate after all the **** you have been through so far !!

This will cheer you up though, been up to 90mg for a few weeks and I`ve got a ****ing side effect !! hypotension like you 

Hopefully you'll sleep well tonight after hearing that !! Although its not bad, quite enjoy the dizziness and vison ****ing up haha.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Lets hope it is kicking in mate after all the **** you have been through so far !!
> 
> This will cheer you up though, been up to 90mg for a few weeks and I`ve got a ****ing side effect !! hypotension like you
> 
> Hopefully you'll sleep well tonight after hearing that !! Although its not bad, quite enjoy the dizziness and vison ****ing up haha.


:teeth:spit:haha









Only kidding, it sucks mate.

Just a thought, this could well be the 60mg doing its thing. i'm 7 weeks at 60 and remember i first felt something at around 8 weeks. That was hopefully just the 45 :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> :teeth:spit:haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only kidding, it sucks mate.
> 
> Just a thought, this could well be the 60mg doing its thing. i'm 7 weeks at 60 and remember i first felt something at around 8 weeks. That was hopefully just the 45 :grin2:


:grin2:

Looks like the 90mg is kicking in for me around the 3 week mark ! My mood hasnt changed so may drop back down to 75mg again if the hypotension gets worse but like I say, its quite enjoyable at the mo - bit like being pissed up for a few secs.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2:
> 
> Looks like the 90mg is kicking in for me around the 3 week mark ! My mood hasnt changed so may drop back down to 75mg again if the hypotension gets worse but like I say, its quite enjoyable at the mo - bit like being pissed up for a few secs.


:grin2:

Damn it, why you havin all the fun?!! makes me feel like dog poop!


----------



## SFC01

now you are making me feel bad 

You still thinking of getting extra nardil or you gonna wait until the doc gets back to you?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> now you are making me feel bad
> 
> You still thinking of getting extra nardil or you gonna wait until the doc gets back to you?


I think i'm gunna wait and see wtf is going on in me right now. For all i know this could be the 60 just kicking in!

Hopefully she gives me the modafinil to help with this damn fatigue. if she moans about 75 i will say i will go to 60 but we all know that aint happening for a while yet until i get complete maoi inhibition!


----------



## V1bzz

Split my dose today, generally feel abit better. Haven't felt the need to take a nap yet. No feeling cold, no hypotension. muscle fatigue is still there but very mild compared.

Took 3 at 7am and the other 2 at 12.30.

Will take just 2 in the morning tomorrow and the other 3 in the afternoon. see how that works. still got abit of eye tiredness from the 3 once they had kicked in.

Constipation is back, 2nd day now. as soon as I run out of fibre drinks lol. 
Can't aford to buy them every 2 days ffs!

I seem to have a pattern on nardil. 2 weeks of little pebble poo's then a big painful hour long clear out. rinse and repeat. This time though totally constipated, sh1t aint playing 

I think it's cos a dose is kicking in. hopefully the 60mg.

Oh think I had a hypertensive thing last night. ate about 6 small bars of toffee chrisp and felt hot and sweat, heart pounding, tight chest and feeling quite unwell.
I've never had one before so not sure, does that sound like a food reaction to anyone that knows?

Feeling really hot today too actually and sweating abit. wonder if my bp has done a reversal on me and gone high? won't find out till next weeks huff.
summin has defo changed with the bp, gotta be because another dose is kicking in.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Oh think I had a hypertensive thing last night. ate about 6 small bars of toffee chrisp and felt hot and sweat, heart pounding, tight chest and feeling quite unwell.
> I've never had one before so not sure, does that sound like a food reaction to anyone that knows?


Never had a food reaction before either mate, but I think a banging headache is the main symptom, though could be wrong.

Not sure toffee crisps would do it though, nothing in those would kick it off I wouldn't have thought


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Never had a food reaction before either mate, but I think a banging headache is the main symptom, though could be wrong.
> 
> Not sure toffee crisps would do it though, nothing in those would kick it off I wouldn't have thought


Must be the new dose, whatever that may be, kicking in and having a little play lol.

@SFC01 - Here's my new track if you like Deep House? https://www.cloudbounce.com/v1bzz/tracks/sunset-orgy


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Must be the new dose, whatever that may be, kicking in and having a little play lol.
> 
> @*SFC01* - Here's my new track if you like Deep House? https://www.cloudbounce.com/v1bzz/tracks/sunset-orgy


Like the track, you have some talent there pal !!

Hope nardil has been good to you today, btw looks like my hypotension side effect has gone0


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Like the track, you have some talent there pal !!
> 
> Hope nardil has been good to you today, btw looks like my hypotension side effect has gone0


Yeah my hypotension has gone for the last 2 days but i did have a couple of moments a couple of hrs after taking the last pill at about 4pm. My anxiety is back to normal today, felt it when I went to the shops.
3 days constipated again.

Did your anxiety come back at all at random periods while on Nardil or when you were dosing up at the begininng? (if you can remember)

Cheers.

Thanks about the track. I love making deep house


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Did your anxiety come back at all at random periods while on Nardil or when you were dosing up at the begininng? (if you can remember)


@ 60mg it did, it was until i got to 75mg that the improvement in mood became consistent


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @ 60mg it did, it was until i got to 75mg that the improvement in mood became consistent


Cheers. Hoping I got more to kick in yet and finally get to nardil heaven. Got hypo again today huff! Surely you only get hypo when the med is kicking in? I was hypo free for about 4 days, was great. I like to think that was the 45 or 60 finished kicking in. Hopefully 45. I am no where near to feeling in no anxiety bliss yet. Still holding at 0-10%

Wonder how the others are getting on? Haven't heard from you guys in a while @Sweeto @rm123 @WillComp @Captainmycaptain


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I'm nowhere feeling anxiety bliss either.
> 
> But I an in as much bliss as I've been in years, as I'm currently in Mexico at an all-inclusive, on a balcony overlooking the spectacular clear turquoise ocean and pools below. Thankfully I only have 1 side effective: heart palpitations. For the last 5 days or so, I get a pounding heart beat that feels like my hearts gonna jump outta my chest..it happens every 5 min or so. It comes with a rapid heart beat a lot of the times too. Occasionally it goes away for part of the day. It's definitely not putting a damper on my vacation. &#128512;


Man I am so jealous right now! Mexico is one of my favourite places on this earth. Paradise!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> It's amazing! First time in Mexico. It's absolute paradise. I'm cherishing every second of it, since I'm only here for a week. Then back to reality and work.


Yes, perfect place for your nardil to kick in. can't think of a better situation to be in really.

I would keep an eye on that heart beat, doesn't sound too good. funny how nardil effects people in different ways. Mine slows my heart down as if it's in there smoking a joint saying chill man, yeah i'll do summin in a min man. while im having fatigue and hypotension cos it's too lazy to work properly

Then theres yours running around having some kind of rave, screaming lets get it on, let get on it and everyone's telling it to calm the F down and chill out! LOL

Have you felt any kind of hypermania yet? I was unfortunate to never get that. Possibly a bad sign for me and my nardil hopes. It's been a long time for me on this stuff. 5 weeks at 75 on thursday, will give it two months then give up as that would mean i have also been on 60mg just under 3 months then, 45 two weeks longer. obviously i've got to take the hint then that im one of the unfortunate ones. Will see if my doc will give me parnate. My final final last hope of curing this horrible thing we all suffer from.

*Come on Nardil you *******, WORK!!!!*:mum:mum:mum:mum:mum

fingers, eyes and toes crossed!! 0

Really hope it kicks in for the rest of you guys, if i cant get there i want you all to. I want you see you all write how great you feel, I will love it but feel totally gutted and probably cry lol


----------



## Sweeto

I'm at week 7 and Nardil is really good for mood and depression, no suicidal thoughts and I'm enjoying the life. My social anxiety has been decreased by 30% but I still waiting improvement.

But I'm taking 90mg for 2 weeks in a row.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I'm at week 7 and Nardil is really good for mood and depression, no suicidal thoughts and I'm enjoying the life. My social anxiety has been decreased by 30% but I still waiting improvement.
> 
> But I'm taking 90mg for 2 weeks in a row.


Wow i'm so glad its started working for you mate. Hopefully you have alot more to come. I was hoping you hadn't been on because it had started working.

I'm doing another medication test tonight. I'm going to take it all in the evening. I've noticed that when i take it in the morning I feel like crap all day but in the evening at about 10pm I feel pretty good, as in no side effects or anything. Motivated too and not tired. Tired all bloody day then wide awake at night.
I'm wondering if i can switch it so i feel like sh1t while i sleep and feel good while i'm awake.

Man I wish I had 30% inhibition, im still stuck at about 10% to 0% some days.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> If it doesn't work for any of us, then it must be a scam. LOL


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto so did it start working once you went up to 90mg?

I think we have been on 75 about the same amount of time haven't we? i'm 5 weeks tomorrow.
Did the horrible side effects at 90 pass pretty quickly then? or did you not get any.
Sure i've read that it seems like a big jump from 75 to 90, compared to from 60 to 75 or whatever.

I really want to go to 90 but my doc is already pissed that i went above 60, says she can only legally prescribe 60 max.


----------



## Sweeto

I think 75mg is working for now but I jumped to 90mg for better effects.

Side effects have been reduced, now I have:

Anorgasmia
Insomnia

Other have been diminished


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> Anyway, I'm hoping it kicks in soon for you guys too. At least one of us needs it to happen. Then the rest of us can live vicariously through the lucky one! If it doesn't work for any of us, then it must be a scam. LOL


you are all starting to make me think I'm only feeling a placebo effect !!


----------



## V1bzz

The nardil is not working for me. I just popped in the doctors really quick to take my BP and nearly had a panic attack just walking the short distance out past everyone. I had that 1 day weeks ago where it felt great having some relief but nothing since.

Can't tell you how fed up and down I am about all this right now.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> The nardil is not working for me. I just popped in the doctors really quick to take my BP and nearly had a panic attack just walking the short distance out past everyone. I had that 1 day weeks ago where it felt great having some relief but nothing since.
> 
> Can't tell you how fed up and down I am about all this right now.


as you say, you could switch to panate but I think the redommended upper lmit here in the UK is 40mg and that doesnt seem anywhere near high enough.

40mg parnate wasn't particularly great for me but if you could get your doc to commit to 60mg parnate if you decide to switch then it may be enough.

Could try selgeline I guess if your doc would go for that or there is one other irreversible MAOI - Marplan - but not heard many experiences of that.


----------



## Sweeto

You can still try Benzos, Tramadol, Opiates, DXM. All of them have very great impact on reducing depression and anxiety. Other meds suck


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> The nardil is not working for me. I just popped in the doctors really quick to take my BP and nearly had a panic attack just walking the short distance out past everyone. I had that 1 day weeks ago where it felt great having some relief but nothing since.
> 
> Can't tell you how fed up and down I am about all this right now.


You've only been on 75mg for five weeks. I was on 90mg for around 10 weeks before I started to feel the effects a year ago. Have you considered going up to 90mg? I still really feel that it's going to be successful for you given all the side effect you've been through.

I'm also curious if you had any luck dealing with the pot belly issue. I've been taking extra strength ex-lax as well as Metamucil. I will drop absolute MOABs in my toilet, but my belly still looks like there's an alien in it. It's almost freakish. I have gained 20 pounds in a month and a half.


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 @Sweeto @Captainmycaptain 
Sorry I didn't reply yesterday guys, I was in a foul mood all day. You all know what i mean. Just didn't feel like talking to nobody yesterday.

Hoping my doc prescribes me Modafinil today just to help me get some energy and function back in my life. I'm back to not wanting to do anything again and having a negative mindset about everything i'm asked to do. You know, the usual crap anxiety fueled existance where people think your just lazy because they don't understand what you have to go through mentally just to do the simplist things.

I also had alot of hope it was going to work from having every single side effect possible. My current side effects are urinary retention and my body shaking like I have parkinsons disease. It's really embarrasing using my legs to do the simplist things as they shake so stupidly. I feel like a right freak.

For the pot belly im taking Aqua-Ban, its a herbal thing for bloating and water retention. It's too early to say for that, will let you know, i'm also getting some leg raises back in my life, anything that works that damn unborn i have.
I don't know if it's just a coincidence but since I started taking the constipation has totally gone. 100% gone, I think i'm actually #2'ing more than usual. 4-5 times a day. So may have unknowingly found a constipation cure.

I took my 5 pills of nardil at about 8pm last night, im seeing if I can sleep through all the crap. Will have to et you guys know how I feel sides wise through out today. I slept like a log though!

dosing time length is...

*10 weeks @ 45
8 weeks @ 60
5 weeks @ 75*

I was thinking about asking to switch to parnate at around 8 weeks 75mg, so another 3 weeks but now i'm wondering if to give it longer after what @Captainmycaptain Just said. also captain, my doc is really pissed that i'm already at 75mg, says she can only legally prescribe me 60mg. she is not a happy bunny with me. I expect she will tell me to drop 15 today when she calls.

It's hard to know what to do when you are not feeling any kind of depression or anxiety relief from a med you have been taking for 10 weeks total.

It's also been about 9 weeks since I have had any manly type of relief and 9 weeks since i have shaven. Was too fcuked the first 3 weeks on nardil to be bothered to shave and decided to just keep growing it until nardil works. I have my first ever beard!! LOL.

Hopefully I can shave it soon


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> my doc is really pissed that i'm already at 75mg, says she can only legally prescribe me 60mg. she is not a happy bunny with me. I expect she will tell me to drop 15 today when she calls.


Is it a legal thing? Not aware she is legally bound at all but might be wrong. Anyone in the UK now this.


----------



## SFC01

oh did you get the magnesium malate? Not help ?


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> @SFC01 @Sweeto @Captainmycaptain
> Sorry I didn't reply yesterday guys, I was in a foul mood all day. You all know what i mean. Just didn't feel like talking to nobody yesterday.
> 
> Hoping my doc prescribes me Modafinil today just to help me get some energy and function back in my life. I'm back to not wanting to do anything again and having a negative mindset about everything i'm asked to do. You know, the usual crap anxiety fueled existance where people think your just lazy because they don't understand what you have to go through mentally just to do the simplist things.
> 
> I also had alot of hope it was going to work from having every single side effect possible. My current side effects are urinary retention and my body shaking like I have parkinsons disease. It's really embarrasing using my legs to do the simplist things as they shake so stupidly. I feel like a right freak.
> 
> For the pot belly im taking Aqua-Ban, its a herbal thing for bloating and water retention. It's too early to say for that, will let you know, i'm also getting some leg raises back in my life, anything that works that damn unborn i have.
> I don't know if it's just a coincidence but since I started taking the constipation has totally gone. 100% gone, I think i'm actually #2'ing more than usual. 4-5 times a day. So may have unknowingly found a constipation cure.
> 
> I took my 5 pills of nardil at about 8pm last night, im seeing if I can sleep through all the crap. Will have to et you guys know how I feel sides wise through out today. I slept like a log though!
> 
> dosing time length is...
> 
> *10 weeks @ 45
> 8 weeks @ 60
> 5 weeks @ 75*
> 
> I was thinking about asking to switch to parnate at around 8 weeks 75mg, so another 3 weeks but now i'm wondering if to give it longer after what @Captainmycaptain Just said. also captain, my doc is really pissed that i'm already at 75mg, says she can only legally prescribe me 60mg. she is not a happy bunny with me. I expect she will tell me to drop 15 today when she calls.
> 
> It's hard to know what to do when you are not feeling any kind of depression or anxiety relief from a med you have been taking for 10 weeks total.
> 
> It's also been about 9 weeks since I have had any manly type of relief and 9 weeks since i have shaven. Was too fcuked the first 3 weeks on nardil to be bothered to shave and decided to just keep growing it until nardil works. I have my first ever beard!! LOL.
> 
> Hopefully I can shave it soon


First of all, how much do you weigh? All literature says that people should take about a mg for every kg you weigh. I was in a lucky situation where I met this bizarre Japanese doctor while I lived in Japan who had never heard of Nardil. He looked it up on his computer and said, "Ok, ok, ok, ok...let's see...aha Nardil......so 15 mg a day, right?" I said, "No, they are 15 mg pills. I want to take 90 mg a day." He said, "Oooh, let's see...but that's the maximum dose." I said, "Yes." He said, "Oh, ok, well please wait in the waiting room for your prescription." Now, when I returned to America from Japan, I brought the bottle of Nardil that this loon had prescribed me and the doctor here continued with the program. Once you get a prescription for 90mg, you can continue with that for the rest of your life. Of course, always keep one of the empty bottles. You should bring in all the literature to your doctor that states that a person should take 1 mg for every kg they weigh. Send it to your doctor if that will be easier on their ego. Or get another doctor if she will not go along with the program. If you are not 90 mg, start eating.

In other news, I really think there is a way to hack this medication. I think it has something to do with lowering the dose and then spiking it. I was taking 60mg or 75mg for a few days and then spiked it up to 90mg and am feeling that fearless feeling that is somewhere between hypomania and normal. I'm experimenting for my sake and your guys' sake to figure this out. There is a way to hack this medication with altering the dose as well as some sleep deprivation. I will update on any discoveries I make.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> oh did you get the magnesium malate? Not help ?


Still waiting on delivery. It's coming from the US. Should arrive today I think  hopefully i won't need it because the doc gives me the good sh1t lol, not feeling confident though. You know when you feel like your doc just doesn't really give a fcuk, thats the feeling I get. She is my 3rd doctor now cos the other 2 seemed that way too.

I always get the feeling that they think your just trying or wanting to get high, not get better.

Of course this could be my illness making me think this.


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> First of all, how much do you weigh?


I'm just under 13 stone now. was about 12 stone 1 when i started. (about 169 pounds i think)



Captainmycaptain said:


> In other news, I really think there is a way to hack this medication. I think it has something to do with lowering the dose and then spiking it. I was taking 60mg or 75mg for a few days and then spiked it up to 90mg and am feeling that fearless feeling that is somewhere between hypomania and normal. I'm experimenting for my sake and your guys' sake to figure this out. There is a way to hack this medication with altering the dose as well as some sleep deprivation. I will update on any discoveries I make.


Oh man I hope you find a way to force kick start it. you think i should drop to 45mg for 2 or 3 days then take 90 for a day then drop back to my usual dose of 75?


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> I'm just under 13 stone now. was about 12 stone 1 when i started. (about 169 pounds i think)
> 
> Oh man I hope you find a way to force kick start it. you think i should drop to 45mg for 2 or 3 days then take 90 for a day then drop back to my usual dose of 75?


It's worth a try since you are not having much success, even though, like I said, you haven't been on a high for that long. But give it a try. You have nothing to lose. Also, how are your sleep habits? Have you tried some sleep deprivation?


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> It's worth a try since you are not having much success, even though, like I said, you haven't been on a high for that long. But give it a try. You have nothing to lose. Also, how are your sleep habits? Have you tried some sleep deprivation?


Well I sleep great on Nardil but only get between 6-7hrs a night.


----------



## V1bzz

So y doc rings and she's going on about how they have a new mental health nurse at the surgery and she wants me to see him on the 8th, I agree. I'm waiting for her to say about modafinil or about my nardil dosing going up to 90 and i get nothing. I think to myself fcuk it i'll sort my own dosing of the nardil but i really need modafinil as i'm completely exhausted all day every day from doing simple things, so ask her, were you able to sort modafinil to me because i really need help with this exhaustion. She says she didn't get round it!! WTF, she is my doctor and she didn't get round to it??? in other words she forgot, I think that is more the truth.
So i sorta say you were supposed to sort this out for me so she says she will try to get on it after she has seen everyone and give me a call back....guess what? no call.

Sick of this doc not taking me seriously and leaving me to suffer. I swear she is damn useless!


Still though, I aint going to get to see this mental health guy until the damn 8th of May!!

Totally sick of feeling this bad every day. I write this message with my myscles aching and in pain because i made the bed. it's ridiculous!!

I'm taking 30mg for the next 2 nights then will do 90g for 1 night then go back to 75. hoping i can kickstart this dang thing


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> So y doc rings and she's going on about how they have a new mental health nurse at the surgery and she wants me to see him on the 8th, I agree. I'm waiting for her to say about modafinil or about my nardil dosing going up to 90 and i get nothing. I think to myself fcuk it i'll sort my own dosing of the nardil but i really need modafinil as i'm completely exhausted all day every day from doing simple things, so ask her, were you able to sort modafinil to me because i really need help with this exhaustion. She says she didn't get round it!! WTF, she is my doctor and she didn't get round to it??? in other words she forgot, I think that is more the truth.
> So i sorta say you were supposed to sort this out for me so she says she will try to get on it after she has seen everyone and give me a call back....guess what? no call.
> 
> Sick of this doc not taking me seriously and leaving me to suffer. I swear she is damn useless!
> Thing is i can't complain too much because i think this clueless behaviour is why she prescribed me nardil in the first place without knowing anything about it.
> 
> Still though, I aint going to get to see this mental health guy until the damn 8th of May!!
> 
> Totally sick of feeling this bad every day. I write this message with my myscles aching and in pain because i made the bed. it's ridiculous!!
> 
> I'm taking 30mg for the next 2 nights then will do 90g for 1 night then go back to 75. hoping i can kickstart this dang thing


Docs are like that, ****s me off so much. It might not be important to them but it sure is to you - they still don't seem to take mental health seriously.

The only mental health nurse I`ve seen told me to lie on a bed at home and tense one muscle after the other and that would sort me out !! 

Can you get to see a psychiatrist ? You got enough readies to pay privately for a couple seesions?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Docs are like that, ****s me off so much. It might not be important to them but it sure is to you - they still don't seem to take mental health seriously.
> 
> The only mental health nurse I`ve seen told me to lie on a bed at home and tense one muscle after the other and that would sort me out !!
> 
> Can you get to see a psychiatrist ? You got enough readies to pay privately for a couple seesions?


She said actually about referring me and i told her that when she couldnt help me anymore i would have to change. Looks like we are about at that point.

If that guy says that **** to me i'll tell him he's taking the piss and walk out. wtf is lying down going to do but cause me hypotension?? (which has gone by the way  ) only sides i have now is struggling to piss and this horrible muscle fatigue. oh and muscle twitching when im falling asleep. thats kinda weird lol


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> She said actually about referring me and i told her that when she couldnt help me anymore i would have to change. Looks like we are about at that point.
> 
> If that guy says that **** to me i'll tell him he's taking the piss and walk out. wtf is lying down going to do but cause me hypotension?? (which has gone by the way  ) only sides i have now is struggling to piss and this horrible muscle fatigue. oh and muscle twitching when im falling asleep. thats kinda weird lol


With any doctor you see, remember, there are only 75,000 people taking it worldwide, so you will without a doubt be the first patient the doctor has treated using this. But DEFINITELY, see a psychiatrist, preferably one whose done a lot of training in pharmaceuticals. While you will be their first patient taking Nardil, they should know quite a bit about it. I am seeing a new psychiatrist on May 3rd. I fully expect him to continue on with 90mg a day. I will be out of Nardil on that date and if he doesn't renew it, things will be very unpleasant until I find another psychiatrist who will prescribe it. I went off of Nardil cold turkey a few months ago and had nightmares every night for weeks that made A Nightmare Before Elm Street look like a walk in the park. My parents heard screams all night like I was going through a possession. I was literally scared to go to sleep.

In addition to the Nardil, I am going to ask my doctor for oxybutynin for hyperhidrosis which is considerably exacerbated while on Nardil. I literally look like I have just taken a shower as bullets of sweat are running down my face. I want to think watertouch for the oxybutynin recommendation. I am also going to ask about modafinil. Do you know if it is an expensive medication to buy even with insurance?


----------



## rm123

I get your frustration. I waited weeks to get to see a doctor today, explained about my fatigue, and she said.... she doesn't know. Doesn't know why I'm so tired, doesn't know what she can do about it. I've to go back in another week's time and maybe she'll have a better idea then. 

It's getting so frustrating my mum actually came in with me to demand why nothing is being done about this, no matter how many visits to the doctor I make. Told her how I even slept for a full 24hr period last week (which I did). Nothing. The doctor had no answers. She was sympathetic at least, but she had no answers.

Idk what else to do now really. She refused to prescribe modafinil or bupoprion. Idk what difference a week is going to make


----------



## SFC01

rm123 said:


> I get your frustration. I waited weeks to get to see a doctor today, explained about my fatigue, and she said.... she doesn't know. Doesn't know why I'm so tired, doesn't know what she can do about it. I've to go back in another week's time and maybe she'll have a better idea then.
> 
> It's getting so frustrating my mum actually came in with me to demand why nothing is being done about this, no matter how many visits to the doctor I make. Told her how I even slept for a full 24hr period last week (which I did). Nothing. The doctor had no answers. She was sympathetic at least, but she had no answers.
> 
> Idk what else to do now really. She refused to prescribe modafinil or bupoprion. Idk what difference a week is going to make


Why dont you buy modafanil online ? Even if you cant afford to do that long term, at least you can see if it will actually work for your fatigue.


----------



## Apexio

Captainmycaptain said:


> With any doctor you see, remember, there are only 75,000 people taking it worldwide, so you will without a doubt be the first patient the doctor has treated using this. But DEFINITELY, see a psychiatrist, preferably one whose done a lot of training in pharmaceuticals. While you will be their first patient taking Nardil, they should know quite a bit about it. I am seeing a new psychiatrist on May 3rd. I fully expect him to continue on with 90mg a day. I will be out of Nardil on that date and if he doesn't renew it, things will be very unpleasant until I find another psychiatrist who will prescribe it. I went off of Nardil cold turkey a few months ago and had nightmares every night for weeks that made A Nightmare Before Elm Street look like a walk in the park. My parents heard screams all night like I was going through a possession. I was literally scared to go to sleep.
> 
> In addition to the Nardil, I am going to ask my doctor for oxybutynin for hyperhidrosis which is considerably exacerbated while on Nardil. I literally look like I have just taken a shower as bullets of sweat are running down my face. I want to think watertouch for the oxybutynin recommendation. I am also going to ask about modafinil. Do you know if it is an expensive medication to buy even with insurance?


Your new doc won't be very comfortable prescribing nardil, but what option does he have considering you are already on that medication. Modafinil is a whole other thing, your insurance won't normally pay for it unless you have narcolepsy as it is expensive as fu**. Luckily, you can get it very easy on the internet.


----------



## Sweeto

I've got prescribed modafinil without any problems. I said my doctor to diagnose me as a narcoleptic to get it. It normally costs 60? for 30pcs/ 100mg and my insurance pays 100% of it.

This always depends on willingness of doctor.


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> I get your frustration. I waited weeks to get to see a doctor today, explained about my fatigue, and she said.... she doesn't know. Doesn't know why I'm so tired, doesn't know what she can do about it. I've to go back in another week's time and maybe she'll have a better idea then.
> 
> It's getting so frustrating my mum actually came in with me to demand why nothing is being done about this, no matter how many visits to the doctor I make. Told her how I even slept for a full 24hr period last week (which I did). Nothing. The doctor had no answers. She was sympathetic at least, but she had no answers.
> 
> Idk what else to do now really. She refused to prescribe modafinil or bupoprion. Idk what difference a week is going to make


Yeah i waited a month for my appointment just to be told she would look into it and call me in a week.

I have PM'd you :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I've got prescribed modafinil without any problems. I said my doctor to diagnose me as a narcoleptic to get it. It normally costs 60? for 30pcs/ 100mg and my insurance pays 100% of it.
> 
> This always depends on willingness of doctor.


Damn it! first the nardil starts working and now this!! :mum

:grin2:

Please let us know if it helps and how you feel on it etc etc


----------



## V1bzz

On the *Drop dose to kick start Nardil* experiment, I took 30mg last night before bed. Had a messed up nightmare, toss and turned all night and woke up feeling really tired and not wanting to get up. Also had head shocks mid afternoon so took a 15 at about 5.30pm. Will take 30mg tonight before bed to up it to 45mg.

Tomorrow night i'm doing 90mg so will feel fubared then back to 75mg from then on.

Didn't expect it to affect me so quickly dropping the dose, i did however go from 75-30, I am thinking though that there is a possibility to kickstart it if i get affected dropping it.

Here's hope the experiment works!! Guess i'll let you know in a couple of days 

My magnesium Malate comes tomorrow (finally) so will take that for a week or two until the good stuff arrives 

@rm123 Magnesium Malate proved to be very helpful with the fatigue for many people on this forum..
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=magnesium+malate

Check out the 3rd article thing down.

SFC01 told me about it, works well for him


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto do you mind if I ask what your dosage regimen is going to be on the Modafinil?


----------



## Gillman fan

Try Agmatine. Need more people to try it for testimonials thread. It is $20 on Amazon Prime for a 200 day supply. 
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> Try Agmatine. Need more people to try it for testimonials thread. It is $20 on Amazon Prime for a 200 day supply.
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/


Will go check this out. thanks for sharing :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 @Captainmycaptian

Does it make any sense to take 60 for 2 or 3 days a week so I can take 90 for 2 or 3 days a week? would that work to get a 90mg into my system theraputically? (spell check lol)

Or even take 90 once or twice a week where it would really be noticable on me having to order more nardil more often.

Hope the first bit isnt a stupid question lol, feels like it is but nardil seems to work different from other meds.


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, yes you could do it that way, I have done 75-90 on alternate days, and also 75mg from Mon to Wed and 90 from Thurs to Sunday but it was already working well and in my system. There is no harm it trying it mate.

Not sure 90mg once a week will make too much difference though.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> Try Agmatine. Need more people to try it for testimonials thread. It is $20 on Amazon Prime for a 200 day supply.
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/


OMG I need to get this just to get the damn nardil working!!! i'm defo buying this when i get paid!! :O

Looks like it will sort out the urinary retention and anorgasmia. I know someone in this thread will be very happy about that lol

everyone in this thread should read the link @Gillman fan posted. it's got me all excited


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, yes you could do it that way, I have done 75-90 on alternate days, and also 75mg from Mon to Wed and 90 from Thurs to Sunday but it was already working well and in my system. There is no harm it trying it mate.
> 
> Not sure 90mg once a week will make too much difference though.


Think I will give it a go doing 2 or 3 days at 90 then the other days at 60 so it doesnt effect my prescription dose.
Oh and i'm getting some agmatine as soon as I can! really want it like right now lol


----------



## V1bzz

@Gillman fan

Is this the right stuff? want to get some ordered today to get my nardil working!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agmatine-Sulphate-Tablets-99-45-30-x-150mg-FREE-UK-Postage/391326658641?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Dbc9897e824e645fe8a9dd74e9cb28fde%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D19%26sd%3D252181032739

How much mg a day were you taking for it to get your parnate working? also how long did it take to get it working?
Thanks, this stuff has got me excited lol


----------



## V1bzz

Just took my 90mg for the *kickstart nardil experiment*
Will do 90mg tomorrow and monday then go back to 75. 
Then Will do 90mg every Friday,Saturday and Sunday then 75mg for the other 4 days from now on.

Fingers crossed


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Just took my 90mg for the *kickstart nardil experiment*
> Will do 90mg tomorrow and monday then go back to 75.
> Then Will do 90mg every Friday,Saturday and Sunday then 75mg for the other 4 days from now on.
> 
> Fingers crossed


Do you notice any difference taking 90mg at once, as compared to spreading it out over the day?


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Do you notice any difference taking 90mg at once, as compared to spreading it out over the day?


Nardil isn't working for me yet but not really feeling that I took 90 at all at the moment :serious:

Umm i don't think i did notice any difference tbh. the side effects were just the same. My hypotension has gone for the moment so it doesnt seem to make a difference how or when i take it. I prefer to take all in one go so i dont forget any doses. my memory isnt the best at the moment.

EDIT - of course just the usual mass fatigue feelings


----------



## V1bzz

@SCF01 well my order hasn't come yet :mum


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @SCF01 well my order hasn't come yet :mum


Damn it !!

My agmatine didn't arrive !!:mum


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Damn it !!
> 
> My agmatine didn't arrive !!:mum


*******s just love to see us suffer :mum:mum:mum lol


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Nardil isn't working for me yet but not really feeling that I took 90 at all at the moment :serious:
> 
> Umm i don't think i did notice any difference tbh. the side effects were just the same. My hypotension has gone for the moment so it doesnt seem to make a difference how or when i take it. I prefer to take all in one go so i dont forget any doses. my memory isnt the best at the moment.
> 
> EDIT - of course just the usual mass fatigue feelings


Sound like one needs to play around with the dose and such to find the sweetspot!.

Good luck though!


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Sound like one needs to play around with the dose and such to find the sweetspot!.
> 
> Good luck though!


Indeed, last few days I have been trying to kickstart it with dose changes. went to 30 for a day (wanted to do 2 but got brain zaps) so went to 45 next day, now 90 today. Will do 90 tomorrow and Monday then back to 75.

Oh, I think it's quite important to mention that I have only been on 75mg 5 weeks. 8-10 weeks for 60 & 45.

Of course, in a couple of weeks all could be solved with the help of Agmatine. Dying to know what nardil feels like.

Saying that, I felt abit off for about an hour couple of hrs ago, really thirsty, bit moody and abit unwell. Now though I aint feeling too bad, Not bad at all. Guessing it's the extra Dopamine


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Saying that, I felt abit off for about an hour couple of hrs ago, really thirsty, bit moody and abit unwell. Now though I aint feeling too bad, Not bad at all. Guessing it's the extra Dopamine


Hehe one would hope so, would be crappy if it was like "low bloodsugar", and there is like *no *positive effect of the medicine :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Hehe one would hope so, would be crappy if it was like "low bloodsugar", and there is like *no *positive effect of the medicine :grin2:


Yeah haha. I kinda miss feeling fcuked up when I first started on nardil. Just sitting off my t1ts :grin2:


----------



## Gillman fan

V1bzz said:


> @*Gillman fan*
> 
> Is this the right stuff? want to get some ordered today to get my nardil working!
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agmatine-Sulphate-Tablets-99-45-30-x-150mg-FREE-UK-Postage/391326658641?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Dbc9897e824e645fe8a9dd74e9cb28fde%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D19%26sd%3D252181032739
> 
> How much mg a day were you taking for it to get your parnate working? also how long did it take to get it working?
> Thanks, this stuff has got me excited lol


I think you found my Agmatine thread and I hope to get some nice recommendations going in that thread  But I will answer your questions.

1)~560 3 times / day, upon waking, at noon, and in the evening when I take my evening Parnate dose.
2) I noticed immediate (30 minutes after dose) benefits from Agmatine, relaxation, pro-social and pro-cognitive effects. Took more like 3 days before it potentiated Parnate, at first I experienced increased mood and _more _Parnate side effects. After a week, _no _side effects, except severe insomnia that requires medication.

Hope this helps.

Also I am in your thread and I think it is shameful your doctor makes you suffer like this, due to their own ignorance and timidity. I think Rxing a norepinephrine booster should be standard practice during MAOI dosage adjustment. Nardil can do some horrible horrible things until you reach therapeutic dose, and even then the SE can be pretty messy.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> I think you found my Agmatine thread and I hope to get some nice recommendations going in that thread  But I will answer your questions.
> 
> 1)~560 3 times / day, upon waking, at noon, and in the evening when I take my evening Parnate dose.
> 2) I noticed immediate (30 minutes after dose) benefits from Agmatine, relaxation, pro-social and pro-cognitive effects. Took more like 3 days before it potentiated Parnate, at first I experienced increased mood and _more _Parnate side effects. After a week, _no _side effects, except severe insomnia that requires medication.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Also I am in your thread and I think it is shameful your doctor makes you suffer like this, due to their own ignorance and timidity. I think Rxing a norepinephrine booster should be standard practice during MAOI dosage adjustment. Nardil can do some horrible horrible things until you reach therapeutic dose, and even then the SE can be pretty messy.


Thanks, yeah she's a pain in the ***, thankfully I found this forum though, have learnt alot and am now able to sort myself out :smile2::nerd:


----------



## zeusko87

Captainmycaptain said:


> In other news, I really think there is a way to hack this medication.* I think it has something to do with lowering the dose and then spiking it.* I was taking 60mg or 75mg for a few days and then spiked it up to 90mg and am feeling that fearless feeling that is somewhere between hypomania and normal. I'm experimenting for my sake and your guys' sake to figure this out.


This seems to be the only way to make Nardil effective long term and from my experience it really works.
My strategy: 1 week on 15-30 mg, then 2 weeks on 75 mg, then again 1 week 15-30 mg...

I have also ordered Agmatine Sulphate (NMDA antagonist) in hope to prevent Nardil tolerance.


----------



## Iza707

I'm actually on my 4th time around with Nardil and I took it hella slow this time. I'm on 3 1/2 pills (52.5mg) and added Depakote. I've been up to 120mg in the past. I swear the Depakote has augmented the Nardil in a great way. I gained 40 lbs each time on Nardil, became angry, and had a lot of the usual side effects. With the Depakote, I feel like I'm more on Parnate, no crazy food cravings and I'm actually losing weight. I also have lots of energy until the afternoon crash from Nardil but it's still not anything like it was before. I swear Nardil can cause bipolar disorder IV which is medication induced (even if you aren't bipolar). So, if you are feeling this way then adding a mood stabilizer might actually help. 

Anyways, there always a period for me where I'm feeling some improvement in the beginning on Nardil but then the real effect kicks in after 2-3 months where I get the "normal" feeling and sense of well-being. I almost forgot about it because it is taking so long. So, just give it time and then one day it will just hit you. It's a great feeling.. and other MAOI users know it's not just the euphoria I'm talking about. I just feel my anxiety and panic is completely fixed. I also like the GABA-T effect of Nardil which I think Parnate does not have.

I think you are supposed to lower the dose once you've reached ideal MAO inhibition. I'm going to try playing around with it too. I didn't get the tolerance last time but I am concerned about it eventually happening.


----------



## SFC01

zeusko87 said:


> I have also ordered Agmatine Sulphate (NMDA antagonist) in hope to prevent Nardil tolerance.


Look at us all buying agmatine now haha - it better be the real deal @*jaiho* !!:grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Look at us all buying agmatine now haha - it better be the real deal @*jaiho* !!:grin2:


Hopefully we'll all be off our t1ts soon and loving life :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Took my BP today and am well happy, had a good feeling about it because i have been feeling much better. I am just literally dealing with water retention and extreme fatigue now. hypotension has 95% gone. but reminds me every now and again how **** it feels to have it.

BP...
*102/64*

My anxiety feels milder today. going in to get my BP done wasn't a total headspin and panic moment. Feel abit brighter also today.
Hopefully the dosage experiment has made the nardil start to kick in.

I made myself another prescription today and left a note saying about the fatigue and that i need modafinil (again)
Ended by saying turn that frown upside down lol.

I'm defo more upbeat today, especially for someone who's been up since 05:15.

If i could bin this fatigue that mkes my eyes heavy as fcuk all day i think i would feel pretty good 

Come on Mr postman, give me my treats!! =D


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## SFC01

@V1bzz, glad things feel a little better.

Expecting my agmatine any moment now from the postie - quite looking forward to it so it better turn up.

Not really sure why I am getting it though as I`m feeling good as it is, I guess I just like dabbling with things !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, glad things feel a little better.
> 
> Expecting my agmatine any moment now from the postie - quite looking forward to it so it better turn up.
> 
> Not really sure why I am getting it though as I`m feeling good as it is, I guess I just like dabbling with things !!


why wouldn't you if you can turn good into great :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> why wouldn't you if you can turn good into great :grin2:


exactly !!but another no show from Health Monthly !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> exactly !!but another no show from Health Monthly !!


Are they uk based? i've now been waiting 2 weeks for my magnesium, i write them earlier and told em i dont want it. the bloody thing hasn't even left the us yet!

That company is called lucky vitamin. will not be using them again!

Damn it, thats who i ordered mine from ((health monthly)). hopefully it will come tomorrow because of bank holiday back up?

My order went to stage 2 of 3 three days ago. Tired of waiting for things mate!

Hopefully the modafinil will only take 7 days. they estimate 7-14 but its a uk company. just stick it in the damn post and i can get it tomorrow. why the fcuk 14 days and why the fcuk did i have to pay 8 quid for airmail??? lol.
they do take the piss out of us in need. not funny!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Are they uk based? i've now been waiting 2 weeks for my magnesium, i write them earlier and told em i dont want it. the bloody thing hasn't even left the us yet!
> 
> That company is called lucky vitamin. will not be using them again!
> 
> Damn it, thats who i ordered mine from ((health monthly)). hopefully it will come tomorrow because of bank holiday back up?
> 
> My order went to stage 2 of 3 three days ago. Tired of waiting for things mate!
> 
> Hopefully the modafinil will only take 7 days. they estimate 7-14 but its a uk company. just stick it in the damn post and i can get it tomorrow. why the fcuk 14 days and why the fcuk did i have to pay 8 quid for airmail??? lol.
> they do take the piss out of us in need. not funny!


Yeah its a pain the arse, mine went to stage 3 last Monday ! That why I used to love the research chemical sites when they were legal. Could get yourself a nice buzz the very next day!!

Did you ever use any of the research chems @V1bzz?


----------



## Gillman fan

Just use Amazon dudes.


----------



## SFC01

Gillman fan said:


> Just use Amazon dudes.


Unfortunately wasnt available on amazon uk - first place i looked (unless I missed something)


----------



## Gillman fan

That sucks. I got my Agmatine next day from Amazon. I was pretty excited because it is kinda like opening a christmas present - I wasn't sure exactly what I had in store


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Unfortunately wasnt available on amazon uk - first place i looked (unless I missed something)


I also looked there, they only had bodybuilding powder if i remember correctly in the uk. I bloody wish they did have it, i would be benefiting from it already.

Na never used research chems. what was it like? did you manage to take anything that was like the old xtc super pills from the late 80's early 90's? boy was that some kind of heaven!


----------



## V1bzz

Wish I had found this forum two yrs ago when i was trying every anti dep under the sun. Could have saved myself alot of time and frustration i think.
This forum is great for getting info and the product most needed 

I was a good boy just doing every D they wanted to give me hoping every time it was going to be the one.

So lucky i randomly found nardil the day i got it as it also made me find this forum


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Na never used research chems. what was it like? did you manage to take anything that was like the old xtc super pills from the late 80's early 90's? boy was that some kind of heaven!


Great xtc pills in those days, from what i can remember they started going a bit downhill in the late 90's but cheap as chips by then - stopped taking them around then as my ex missus wasnt into it. Must of had my last sneaky one in the mid 2000's. ****ing miss those babies !!

No idea what they are like these days, dont wanna **** around with that on nardil.

The research chems were great although I had kids by then and didnt really want to take any xtc analogues - I used to get the many benzo's on offer and some of the stims were good. Ethyphenidate was great, every bit as good as speed but less duration.

A gram of ethylphenidate and some etizolam or clonazolam made for a good day.

Sorry for rambling on, every now and again, nardil kicks up a notch for me and I get a bit buzzy like now - you may have noticed I`ve posted a lot today !! :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

Gillman fan said:


> The average doctor's prescribing habits are based on whichever new drugs are marketed the most heavily


Something my psychiatrist admitted when I asked him why MAOI's weren't prescribed more. At least he had the balls to give it to me first time of asking.


----------



## V1bzz

> Sorry for rambling on, every now and again, nardil kicks up a notch for me and I get a bit buzzy like now - you may have noticed I`ve posted a lot today !! :grin2:


Yeah nothing like the pills in them days. i tried some maybe 5 yrs ago and it was just dirty nasty and skanky, nothing like XTC. All I know is that they drop about 10 in one go these days. LOL I used to be floating around the dancefloor on half for 8hrs back in the day.

I would like to point out that you just love to keep rubbing it in don't ya? :mum:mum:mum:grin2:


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## Gillman fan

I had Parnate early awakening today at 8 am after going to bed at 4am. Makes me feel fantastic and super energized all day  Actually I should be doing some chores but I just love psychopharmacology stuff.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> I had Parnate early awakening today at 8 am after going to bed at 4am. Makes me feel fantastic and super energized all day  Actually I should be doing some chores but I just love psychopharmacology stuff.


That's one of the things I got from Nardil quite early on. I wake up at 06:30 ever since I started taking it. It's starting to wear off now, starting to feel groggy and sh1t again when i get up. I set my alarm now though for that time as (i never ever thought i would say this) I enjoy getting up super early. I usually put the headphones on and make music :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

Suppose I may as well do an update 

*6 weeks @ 75mg*

Ok still not getting the desired effects from Nardil. I have noticed this week that it is working maybe 20% anxiety relief. I'm able to communicate with people much better. Still a long way to go but at least i'm slowly getting there.

My blood pressure has gone back into the normal zone and i'm feeling much better...
*NO HYPOTENSION* :grin2: 
*NO CONSTIPATION* :grin2:

I am still sleeping really great but lately not so much, waking up much more and feeling abit tired and groggy in the mornings. takes about 15mins for that to pass. I used to wake up at 06:30 naturally and just get up and crack on with the day. Last couple of days I have had to set the alarm (i now enjoy waking up stupid o clock in the morn) :smile2:

Side effects I currently have are muscle fatigue, some times its really painful to do simple things. When I say painful I mean muscle burn aching. you just feel extremely worn out from really simple tasks. Not all day are aextreme like that but its always there. Been trying to get *Modafinil* for the last 2-3 weeks but i've came to realise that my doctor is totally incompetent. I am totally frustrated at her. She is happy to leave me in pain while she forgets or just doesn't bother to help me out. Also sick of having to have a 'discussion' with her every time I put in a perscription for more. She has become tiresome and i look at her as another bad side effect.

I also have abit of urinary retention, it's difficult to get going and keep going. It has come and gone before so hoping it goes again soon.

Other thing is that i now have the Nardil pot belly. it's pretty gross, I look like im 9 months pregnant.
I have tried abdominal exercises, water retention tablets, bloating tablets but nothing will defeat the beast inside of me.

Well that's pretty much it, getting there slowly. hoping for the effects of nardil to keep increasing.

Something very odd, I can smell bratwwurst all the time, its a really sickly smell. I've now attached it to a stage of Nardil doing something, I just don't know what. I also had it at a certain point while I was on 60mg.

Very weird. My back is knackered and in pain just writing this update. Today is bad muscle fatigue day. It really sucks, hoping to get it sorted soon!

Hope this dairy is helping someone reading in some way, hopefully not putting anyone off.
The side effects sucks but still, even this long into Nardil I have good hope about it. If I didn't I would have binned it weeks ago. Keep the faith :smile2:

Oh, I am waiting for some Agmatine to arrive through the mail. There's a good chance this will help kick start the Nardil while also making me feel more social all on it's own


----------



## SFC01

I`ve also learned to love waking at stupid o clock in the am - it goes in phases with me, sometimes I`ll be up and ready to go at 4/5AM for a few weeks and then I`ll fall back to 6-6.30AM with the alarm clock waking me - I feel a bit disappointed when its the alarm that wakes me.

Jeez mate, you have really ****ing suffered with these sides - its so weird how it all works for different people. Hope they go for you soon.

Did you get the script ok from the doc after the chat ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I`ve also learned to love waking at stupid o clock in the am - it goes in phases with me, sometimes I`ll be up and ready to go at 4/5AM for a few weeks and then I`ll fall back to 6-6.30AM with the alarm clock waking me - I feel a bit disappointed when its the alarm that wakes me.
> 
> Jeez mate, you have really ****ing suffered with these sides - its so weird how it all works for different people. Hope they go for you soon.
> 
> Did you get the script ok from the doc after the chat ?


She didn't ring! :haha Unbelievable right? in bloody competent! I will need to go in tomorrow and make sure I still get my prescription. My doc is such a fcuk wit. Seriously!

Yeah I feel annoyed when it's the alarm that wakes me. when its the body clock you just wake up feeling good. I also had about a week of waking up 5am ish. Doesn't matter what time you go to bed either, think I had 3 hrs one night and was still ready to go when I woke.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> She didn't ring! :haha Unbelievable right? in bloody competent! I will need to go in tomorrow and make sure I still get my prescription. My doc is such a fcuk wit. Seriously!
> 
> Yeah I feel annoyed when it's the alarm that wakes me. when its the body clock you just wake up feeling good. I also had about a week of waking up 5am ish. Doesn't matter what time you go to bed either, think I had 3 hrs one night and was still ready to go when I woke.


Piss take mate !! They cant just stop your refill and let you go without - I`m sure it will be ok.

When I go through my early awakening phase, I keep waking up at 1AM, 2AM etc, looking forward to the time I can reasonably get up and get on with doing some things. Its during this as well when I just dont want to go to bed, as sleep gets in the way !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Piss take mate !! They cant just stop your refill and let you go without - I`m sure it will be ok.
> 
> When I go through my early awakening phase, I keep waking up at 1AM, 2AM etc, looking forward to the time I can reasonably get up and get on with doing some things. Its during this as well when I just dont want to go to bed, as sleep gets in the way !!


hahaha funny reading that as thats exactly how I was for ages. Waking up just wishing it was time to bloody get up! and feeling gutted when it was time to go to bed.
So weird LOL


----------



## WillComp

Damn V1bzz, you've been through a lot! Kudos for not giving up. This gives me motivation to keep going, no matter what. All we can do is keep the faith! :grin2:


So far, my side effects aren't that bad. I've been on 60 for almost a week. In total I've been on Nardil for 5 weeks and 2 days. 


I had my 2nd appointment with the psych on Monday, and he gave me another 2 month supply.:boogie


The palpitations I was experiencing went away for the most part. I gave up the B-complex and just started taking a one-a-day multivitamin instead. Occasionally I'll still get them, like today when I had a bit of anxiety, instead of that usual weird drop in my stomach and feeling sick with anxiety, I got the palpitations. It's as if Nardil's doing something. 


Right now I'm going through that fatigue stage. The last 3 days have been brutal, especially at work. Actually fell asleep for a few min because I couldn't keep my eyes open. It's so bad that I'm stopping by the store after work and getting those caffeine pills.. if I can find them. It's awesome at night though, when I lie down to go to sleep, my bed feels like the most comfortable thing in the world, and I fall asleep in less than 5 minutes. I usually wake up stupid o'clock in the AM too.. LOL.. except I hate going to work so much I just start swearing like a madman. :x 


I also experienced urinary retention 3 times already. Hope this passes and doesn't become a trend.. won't be too happy if this causes problems for me. 


Another thing I have is extremely dry mouth. I can hardly talk to people at work, I'm always licking my lips just so I can open my mouth. These people must think I'm nuts. Luckily I have these moisture drops that helps a little bit, although it has soybean oil in it, which freaks me out. 


I'm also a bit depressed to be back from vacation... and back to reality. I'm hoping this kicks in soon, and it's all worth it in the end. I'm expecting more side effects, hopefully it's not too bad. Coming here and reading people's diaries helps a ton. Keep up the updates!


----------



## Gillman fan

Grats V1.
Have you tried caffeine pills? Might help with sedation and you don't have to argue with doctor / insurance.
There are like 30 great prescription options to help with MAOI fatigue, but due to insurance and many of these being "officially" contraindicated it can be a pain getting relief from side effects.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Damn V1bzz, you've been through a lot! Kudos for not giving up. This gives me motivation to keep going, no matter what. All we can do is keep the faith! :grin2:
> 
> So far, my side effects aren't that bad. I've been on 60 for almost a week. In total I've been on Nardil for 5 weeks and 2 days.
> 
> I had my 2nd appointment with the psych on Monday, and he gave me another 2 month supply.:boogie
> 
> The palpitations I was experiencing went away for the most part. I gave up the B-complex and just started taking a one-a-day multivitamin instead. Occasionally I'll still get them, like today when I had a bit of anxiety, instead of that usual weird drop in my stomach and feeling sick with anxiety, I got the palpitations. It's as if Nardil's doing something.
> 
> Right now I'm going through that fatigue stage. The last 3 days have been brutal, especially at work. Actually fell asleep for a few min because I couldn't keep my eyes open. It's so bad that I'm stopping by the store after work and getting those caffeine pills.. if I can find them. It's awesome at night though, when I lie down to go to sleep, my bed feels like the most comfortable thing in the world, and I fall asleep in less than 5 minutes. I usually wake up stupid o'clock in the AM too.. LOL.. except I hate going to work so much I just start swearing like a madman. :x
> 
> I also experienced urinary retention 3 times already. Hope this passes and doesn't become a trend.. won't be too happy if this causes problems for me.
> 
> Another thing I have is extremely dry mouth. I can hardly talk to people at work, I'm always licking my lips just so I can open my mouth. These people must think I'm nuts. Luckily I have these moisture drops that helps a little bit, although it has soybean oil in it, which freaks me out.
> 
> I'm also a bit depressed to be back from vacation... and back to reality. I'm hoping this kicks in soon, and it's all worth it in the end. I'm expecting more side effects, hopefully it's not too bad. Coming here and reading people's diaries helps a ton. Keep up the updates!


Hey mate, hope you enjyed the rest of your time in awesome Mexico :grin2:
I have also had palpatations but not like yours. maybe 2 or 3 times since i started nardil. oh also the dry mouth, if i remember correctly I also got that at 60mg but it goes pretty quickly. 2-3 weeks. I LOL'd when you said about it being hard to talk. I remember sitting in the car before I had to go in the garage telling myself off in the mirror saying how the fcuk can i go in the garage when i can't friggin talk properly and rubbing my lips and tongue with my hand saying work ffs :lol
Seems this whole waking up thing is a common side effect :smile2: I also get into bed and it feels so comfy that i fall asleep super quick. I'm still not used to that even after 2 months. It used to take me sometimes up to 4 hrs to get to sleep before Nardil :O
Another thing i remembered nardil has helped me for is i used to get hot restless feet once i got into bed and no longer have that. man so happy that sh1t has gone :grin2:

Man you have the holiday blues, you will feel alright in a few days once you get back into things.

question, are you going to order some Agmatine to help kickstart your Nardil? Gillman fan is already on some, aswell as a few others, me and sfc01 have ordered ours and awaiting delivery. it's kind of an experiment but its looking good so far. Go read here - http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/index2.html


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> Grats V1.
> Have you tried caffeine pills? Might help with sedation and you don't have to argue with doctor / insurance.
> There are like 30 great prescription options to help with MAOI fatigue, but due to insurance and many of these being "officially" contraindicated it can be a pain getting relief from side effects.


Hey, Yeah I was on caffeine pills for ages. Mainly through the 60mg stage of struggling to keep my eyes open.
That isnt so much of a problem at 75, it still is on occasion but if your keeping busy and not sitting down I don't notice it. It's pain I get now in mostly my legs and lower back, it's just muscle exhaustion and really bad muscle burn and I get to a point in the day where I just can't do any more. For me it was about 2pm yesterday.
My Modafinil should be here in a week or so, really looking forward to not feeling so exhausted all the time.
I now can relate to old people, because i bloody feel like one and move like one at the moment!


----------



## rm123

I have the doctors in a few hours, feel sooo nervous. Hopefully she agrees to prescribe something this time!

I'm really intrigued my agmatine (also Kratom and phenibut but they're addictive so might not be the best route to go down), kinda deviously waiting to see what you two guys who are still waiting for delivery say abt it before committing to ordering some lol. But really hope it works out for you's.

Hopefully we can beat the Nardil fatigue!! Xxx


----------



## rm123

Well the doctor won't prescribe anything. She said hopefully the fatigue will go away on its own.

Weeks and weeks of waiting to be told there's nothing that can be done to help me.


----------



## SFC01

@rm123 , sorry to hear that but not suprising !! Woud you consider dropping nardil and trying parnate for example or a non maoi ?


----------



## rm123

SFC01 said:


> @rm123 , sorry to hear that but not suprising !! Woud you consider dropping nardil and trying parnate for example or a non maoi ?


My pdoc has refused to prescribe parnate and if I come off Nardil my anxiety will come back, plus I've complained of fatigue on every antidepressant I've been on since I turned 18 but it's fallen on deaf ears.


----------



## Gillman fan

V1bzz - I strongly suspect that the specific symptoms you are experiencing now (muscle burn and weakness) will resolve if you can add a norepinephrine drug to your cocktail. Unfortunately they are all "officially" contraindicated. Make it a norepineprine reuptake inhibitor and you also can eat what you want without fear of hypertensive crisis from tyramine.


----------



## rm123

Bought some Siberian ginseng pills and Korean ginseng tea. Will see if these help


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> V1bzz - I strongly suspect that the specific symptoms you are experiencing now (muscle burn and weakness) will resolve if you can add a norepinephrine drug to your cocktail. Unfortunately they are all "officially" contraindicated. Make it a norepineprine reuptake inhibitor and you also can eat what you want without fear of hypertensive crisis from tyramine.


Mate my doctor won't do anything to help me. I totally think I was just lucky to get nardil off her. i've been asking for 3 weeks for help and she either ignores my request or says she will look into it. So totally fcuked off with her right now.

I just noticed today that i now have swollen feet and ankles. No wonder its getting extremely difficult for me to simply move about like a normal person.

I'm going to have to buy to help myself get well. As long as she continues to prescribe Nardil. I have a feeling though that she is going to pull it from me. I get sooo much drama every single time I put in a prescription.

My modafinil will be here soon, my agmatine hopefully in the next 5 days (but doubt it) and I will be on to helping myself with these things. my doctor is fcuking useless. She is happy to leave me in pain.
I have to see a psyc nurse on monday, hoping he is abit more competent than her. Would be hard not to be to be fair!


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Bought some Siberian ginseng pills and Korean ginseng tea. Will see if these help


Please let us know how it goes mate. Have you considered buying some modafinil?


----------



## Apexio

rm123 said:


> Bought some Siberian ginseng pills and Korean ginseng tea. Will see if these help


"Siberian ginseng" is not actually ginseng, but a totally different species that was renamed for marketing purposes. You should get some red panax ginseng extract. Panax Ginseng extract has a proven effect on NA/DA. I posted the results of a case study in which it was used to augment a SSRI with good success. You can look it up in my parnate log thread.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Hey mate, hope you enjyed the rest of your time in awesome Mexico :grin2:
> I have also had palpatations but not like yours. maybe 2 or 3 times since i started nardil. oh also the dry mouth, if i remember correctly I also got that at 60mg but it goes pretty quickly. 2-3 weeks. I LOL'd when you said about it being hard to talk. I remember sitting in the car before I had to go in the garage telling myself off in the mirror saying how the fcuk can i go in the garage when i can't friggin talk properly and rubbing my lips and tongue with my hand saying work ffs :lol
> Seems this whole waking up thing is a common side effect :smile2: I also get into bed and it feels so comfy that i fall asleep super quick. I'm still not used to that even after 2 months. It used to take me sometimes up to 4 hrs to get to sleep before Nardil :O
> Another thing i remembered nardil has helped me for is i used to get hot restless feet once i got into bed and no longer have that. man so happy that sh1t has gone :grin2:
> 
> Man you have the holiday blues, you will feel alright in a few days once you get back into things.
> 
> question, are you going to order some Agmatine to help kickstart your Nardil? Gillman fan is already on some, aswell as a few others, me and sfc01 have ordered ours and awaiting delivery. it's kind of an experiment but its looking good so far. Go read here - http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/index2.html


I think I'll wait to see how it goes for you guys. :grin2: Not sure if I wanna be a lab rat. I'm still a couple weeks behind you guys - if Nardil doesn't kick in for me in a couple weeks and I read that Agmatine did the trick for you all, I'll likely order some at that time. Right now I feel like I'm popping too many pills.

Good to hear that the dry mouth went away pretty quickly for you. I'll just have to hang on for a few more weeks, maybe it won't even take that long to go away.

This fatigue is worse than ever today. I've caught myself falling asleep 3 times already today. I was eating my lunch at home, eating a sandwich watching tv, struggling to keep my eyes open, and I dozed off for a few seconds while chewing on my sandwich.. no joke! I'm actually worried about driving home. Yesterday I looked all over for caffeine pills and couldn't find any. I'll try CVS after work, if I can actually get there without veering off the road. :O I fell asleep last night watching tv around 7pm, woke up at 10pm and went straight to bed. This stuff is knocking me out bigtime!

One other side effect: cold intolerance. Yesterday it was 73 degrees (23 Celsius) and I was shivering so much (I had to eat dinner at an outdoor café) I pulled a muscle in my lower back. Back is in serious pain today. I look and feel like an old man getting in and out of my car.. or just standing up from my chair at work. Today it's even cooler outside (63 F - 17 C) and it feels like the middle of winter. This side effect came out of nowhere.

I don't know if this means I'm about to die. But the strangest thing of all is.. I don't care.. and these side effects aren't bothering me. I'm taking it all in stride. You'd think I'd be a basket case now, but I'm just numb and feel.. strangely fine. Maybe I'm just too damn sedated to feel anything, which is a good thing I guess. :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I think I'll wait to see how it goes for you guys. :grin2: Not sure if I wanna be a lab rat. I'm still a couple weeks behind you guys - if Nardil doesn't kick in for me in a couple weeks and I read that Agmatine did the trick for you all, I'll likely order some at that time. Right now I feel like I'm popping too many pills.
> 
> Good to hear that the dry mouth went away pretty quickly for you. I'll just have to hang on for a few more weeks, maybe it won't even take that long to go away.
> 
> This fatigue is worse than ever today. I've caught myself falling asleep 3 times already today. I was eating my lunch at home, eating a sandwich watching tv, struggling to keep my eyes open, and I dozed off for a few seconds while chewing on my sandwich.. no joke! I'm actually worried about driving home. Yesterday I looked all over for caffeine pills and couldn't find any. I'll try CVS after work, if I can actually get there without veering off the road. :O I fell asleep last night watching tv around 7pm, woke up at 10pm and went straight to bed. This stuff is knocking me out bigtime!
> 
> One other side effect: cold intolerance. Yesterday it was 73 degrees (23 Celsius) and I was shivering so much (I had to eat dinner at an outdoor café) I pulled a muscle in my lower back. Back is in serious pain today. I look and feel like an old man getting in and out of my car.. or just standing up from my chair at work. Today it's even cooler outside (63 F - 17 C) and it feels like the middle of winter. This side effect came out of nowhere.
> 
> I don't know if this means I'm about to die. But the strangest thing of all is.. I don't care.. and these side effects aren't bothering me. I'm taking it all in stride. You'd think I'd be a basket case now, but I'm just numb and feel.. strangely fine. Maybe I'm just too damn sedated to feel anything, which is a good thing I guess. :grin2:


Last time you seen your doc did they do a blood pleasure test? sound sto me like you now have low blood pressure..have you been having much/any hypotension?
I also was freezing cold all the time. people sweating because its hot and moaning at me cos im sitting there with a jacket on with the heater at full heat moaning i'm cold lol.
Thankfully that has pretty much gone from me since my bp started to hit the normal zones. sucked feeling cold all the time.

Looks like the side effects are picking up for you. hope you don't get hypotension. that really makes you feel like crap.

The whole falling asleep thing, I am still like that daily now. I find the worst time for me is between 1pm-2pm. I am literally fighting to keep my eyes open, but i go boss eyed and squint like feck! must look like a right freak hahaha.
I can't even lie on my bed a watch my daily dose of stargate atlantis because i fall asleep and wake up at the end arg!

It's really tough huh? its like your brain goes to sleep because even if you manage to keep your eyes open you feel all groggy and weird as if you have just woken from a nap. makes me feel like crap.
Everytime i'm a passenger in a vehicle i fall asleep after about 10mins. Driving has been ok, get the real tired eyes but i guess the concentration of driving keeps you awake. I must look stoned to other drivers lol.

so many annoying side effects on this damn stuff, it better start working 100% or it has turned me into an old man all for nothing :mum

Im sure @SFC01 will pop in and mention about not having any side effects  :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Im sure @*SFC01* will pop in and mention about not having any side effects  :grin2:


Think you have the wrong man !! :grin2: but seeing as you mention it.......


----------



## V1bzz

Bar humbug lol


----------



## WillComp

I saw my dr on Monday and BP was 149/89. A month earlier when they took my BP it was a bit higher - can't remember the exact numbers. 


I don't think I've ever had hypotension. 


I'm beginning to wake up now, probably getting pumped that I have an hour left of work and it's finally the weekend. And I'll probably sleep all weekend.. like an old man.. LOL


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I saw my dr on Monday and BP was 149/89. A month earlier when they took my BP it was a bit higher - can't remember the exact numbers.
> 
> I don't think I've ever had hypotension.
> 
> I'm beginning to wake up now, probably getting pumped that I have an hour left of work and it's finally the weekend. And I'll probably sleep all weekend.. like an old man.. LOL


wow dude that BP is dayum high!! be careful man.


----------



## V1bzz

So I seen the psyc nurse today. Seems a nice enough guy, didn't bull**** me with cbt or other worthless crap. Actually didn't mention it at all. TBH the appointment felt very rushed. alot of the time I didn't get to finish what I was trying to say. To be fair I think I overwhelmed him. I go in to see these people and end up being the expert and blow them away so they feel useless.

One good thing is that he is going to speak to a competent doctor about getting me Modafinil to help with this nasty fatigue.
Fingers crossed now, the doc he's under is pretty good. Had her myself for a time.

I also told him that my incompetent doctor left me with 1 day supply left of Nardil, so he's gunna sort that for me too and giving me a call at 12.30. I said to him, you will actually call won't you? my doctor always said that and never did lol.

Fingers eyes and toes crossed people that I get the modafinil. I don't expect I will, don't know why but lets be pleasantly surprised today shall we :grin2:









Done my BP, it's now in low normal levels *99/67* :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

He didn't call


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> He didn't call


Omg!! :fall

What's up with all these worthless doctors and nurses?

Sorry if I've already asked this.. have you tried caffeine pills for the fatigue? I finally bought some and will give em a try this afternoon. It should be VERY interesting to see how they work when the inevitable afternoon fatigue starts setting in around 2PM and I can't keep my eyes open.

I don't wanna jinx myself but I think Nardil may have started working for me, or maybe I'm entering a weird hypomania/placebo effect stage.. or it's just coincidence or circumstance that I feel a reduction in SA at work.

I'm not sure when it started; I think it was maybe Wed or Thurs last week, and most noticeably this morning (by the way I'm not sleepy yet.. fatigue will start setting in this afternoon). I have been talking to co-workers and my boss more easily. There's a calmness and alertness when I'm forced to have a conversation. I can think more clearly and I'm not coming across as overly nervous. It used to be nearly impossible to talk to these same people. :O


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> wow dude that BP is dayum high!! be careful man.


Hey V1, I just read that Nardil only works for people with high BP! Lucky for me!! LOL


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> I have been talking to co-workers and my boss more easily. There's a calmness and alertness when I'm forced to have a conversation. I can think more clearly and I'm not coming across as overly nervous. It used to be nearly impossible to talk to these same people. :O


I have never had SA but this was one thing I noticed early on with nardil was my calmness when talking to people, it was like everything slowed down and I had time to think, listen, properly correct myself if i mumbled something out, hold eye contact and crack jokes. I started initiating loads of conversations where I wouldnt usually.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Omg!! :fall
> 
> What's up with all these worthless doctors and nurses?
> 
> Sorry if I've already asked this.. have you tried caffeine pills for the fatigue? I finally bought some and will give em a try this afternoon. It should be VERY interesting to see how they work when the inevitable afternoon fatigue starts setting in around 2PM and I can't keep my eyes open.
> 
> I don't wanna jinx myself but I think Nardil may have started working for me, or maybe I'm entering a weird hypomania/placebo effect stage.. or it's just coincidence or circumstance that I feel a reduction in SA at work.
> 
> I'm not sure when it started; I think it was maybe Wed or Thurs last week, and most noticeably this morning (by the way I'm not sleepy yet.. fatigue will start setting in this afternoon). I have been talking to co-workers and my boss more easily. There's a calmness and alertness when I'm forced to have a conversation. I can think more clearly and I'm not coming across as overly nervous. It used to be nearly impossible to talk to these same people. :O


Thats awesome news mate :boogie:clap
The Pnurse did ring back but just to tell me my doc wont prescribe modafinil, she says its an amphetamine. Not sure it is in that class tbh but doc knows best 
I'm going to try and see a Pdoc now but not sure how without a referral from GP, it takes me weeks to get to see my doc. literally 3 or more.
Funny how nardil tries to KO us all at around the same time. My 'you will sleep mother flucker' time starts at about 1pm-ish and is a frickin nightmare about 2pm for a while. I go boss eyed and sh1t trying to keep my eyes open at work.

I am also feeling like you lately, cracking jokes, talking to people easier. I'm still really anxious to walk into the office and things like that though. Felt really anxious when i was stood in the queue at the doctors a few mins ago waiting to pick up my prescription. feel like everyone is looking at you. it eased off though and i was more relaxed and joking with the receptionist. its defo working for me but got a long way to go.

I am supposed to only be on 60mg nardil so i've gotta work out how to take 75 wiuthout them noticing by my meds running out quicker. 
I have a plan though, I feel better at 90mg so want to stay at that now so thinking I will do 90mg for 4 days a week then drop to 60 for 3 days. huff, why does life have to be so awkward. I think dropping to 60 for those 3 days may help relieve the pot belly and exhaustion a touch.
I gotta figure it out. Think the pot belly comes at 75mg unless anyone else here has it at 60?

So glad you are starting to feel it, I think it may be working gradually for you. Here's hoping it continues to get better and better.
I think it's working that way for me, i'm at about maybe 30% anxiety relief most days now. Even that much helps me function so much better as a human being. I honestly think I would feel great if it wasnt for the constant aching and tiredness from the fatigue.

oh, yeh i did do pro plus and then tesco version of pro plus, i was having to pop 4 at a time so wasnt really affective for me. did help though, just not enough. need my modafinil man. should be here this week but it worries me that their support doesnt seem to bother answering support emails. Will be gutted if it doesn't come.


----------



## SFC01

modafanil is not an amphetamine - stupid ****ing doctor


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I have never had SA but this was one thing I noticed early on with nardil was my calmness when talking to people, it was like everything slowed down and I had time to think, listen, properly correct myself if i mumbled something out, hold eye contact and crack jokes. I started initiating loads of conversations where I wouldnt usually.


Yeah man, me too, it's so lush being able to be yourself abit more without thinking about it first :grin2:
I still have lots of moments of thinking before i speak which actually makes saying it really awkward and wrong, gotta be spontanious.

I will get there, we will get there then we can all have psychedelic as our mood thing >


----------



## watertouch

Sounds like Edema, specially since you mention your ankles.

https://pro.psychcentral.com/this-m...d-reflections-on-the-use-of-maois/002956.html


> edema (which I have treated with hydrochlorothiazide)


"Modafinil is an amphetamine"... :sus
hopefully that was the nurse talking and not something the Dr had said... Then again i met my fair share of Drs so it wouldn't be that surprising.

Its the damn EMA guidelines
http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index....news_detail_001061.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1


> The European Medicines Agency has recommended restricting the use of modafinil-containing medicines.* The medicine should only be used to treat sleepiness associated with narcolepsy.* Doctors and patients should no longer use the medicine for the treatment of idiopathic hypersomnia, excessive sleepiness associated with obstructive sleep apnoea and chronic shift work sleep disorder.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I still have lots of moments of thinking before i speak which actually makes saying it really awkward and wrong, gotta be spontanious.


To think before you speak is like wiping your *** before you crap!


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> To think before you speak is like wiping your *** before you crap!


Wise words my man - good to have you back mate. Dont go ****ing off again though


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Sounds like Edema, specially since you mention your ankles.
> 
> https://pro.psychcentral.com/this-m...d-reflections-on-the-use-of-maois/002956.html
> 
> "Modafinil is an amphetamine"... :sus
> hopefully that was the nurse talking and not something the Dr had said... Then again i met my fair share of Drs so it wouldn't be that surprising.
> 
> Its the damn EMA guidelines
> http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index....news_detail_001061.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1


Yeah it was the doctor that said it. see what i gotta deal with here? that was a different doctor from me incompetent one too.
Screw the EMA I should have some this week :grin2:

Yeah the swelling is kinda like that but without bruising. fluck sake, how much stuff am i going to have to deal with because of nardil? lol
I have told them i have swollen feet and ankles and they don't seem to look at it as a problem. actually i say about it and its brushed over and were onto the next thing.

not a serious problem is it? am going to have to google. Tired of taking all this different sh1t for different things now, will be rattling soon!


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Yeah the swelling is kinda like that but without bruising. fluck sake, how much stuff am i going to have to deal with because of nardil? lol
> I have told them i have swollen feet and ankles and they don't seem to look at it as a problem. actually i say about it and its brushed over and were onto the next thing.
> 
> not a serious problem is it? am going to have to google. Tired of taking all this different sh1t for different things now, will be rattling soon!


Its usually not to serious, problem is of course that the Dr.s might rather take you of Nardil.

I would try to hang in there and give Nardil a proper trial though... 3month or so.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Its usually not to serious, problem is of course that the Dr.s might rather take you of Nardil.
> 
> I would try to hang in there and give Nardil a proper trial though... 3month or so.


Yeah I said it was because of the muscle fatigue and the Pnurse agreed. I was using it as more persuation to get prescribed modafinil. I thinkif he could prescribe he would have given me whatever i asked for. shame.


----------



## WillComp

Man, I sure hope all these side effects subside over time for you! Most of the testimonials I've read say the sides go away after a couple months, so if that's true we don't have much longer to wait. 


True / sad story: I have serious anorgasmia now that I'm at 60mg. After 2 weeks on 45, my libido was still through the roof and would reach climax with no effort at all. In other words, my vacation was a blast! 


All the sudden, at 60, it's dead. I might as well throw in the towel. No libido and if I'm lucky to get up, I'm wasting another 4 hours. Sorry for TMI - I'll save you all the details - but I was so determined to reach climax on Saturday that nothing was gonna stop me - and then I eventually threw out my lower back. No joke! 


After what seemed like hours in the most risky of positions, I felt a shock in my lower back and the pain was so intense I thought I was going to be immobile for a week or 2. Luckily it's healed quickly over the last 2 days, and I'm only having trouble getting in and out of the car. Still painful but not as bad as I thought it would be. 


Anyway, when I pulled out my lower back and figured I'd end up in the ER, after a few minutes of shock I painfully managed to make it back to my bedroom.. and proceeded to not give up... LOL.. 1 hour later, success! Needless to say, I'm not going through that again. I've decided to try the nofap/abstinence thing for the next 90 days. I figured there's no better time than now to try this out.


----------



## WillComp

Oh, by the way, that caffeine pill worked like a charm! Surprisingly the pill was 100% effective. I was literally falling asleep at 2pm and while nodding off I grabbed the bottle of "Stay Awake Aid - 200 mg caffeine pills" and took 1 pill. I fought to stay awake for the next 30 minutes. 45 min later I was wide awake!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I will get there, we will get there then we can all have psychedelic as our mood thing >


You have to earn your psychedlic mood thing !! You'll get there !


----------



## watertouch

WillComp said:


> Anyway, when I pulled out my lower back and figured* I'd end up in the ER*,


Hehe not awkward at all! 
- So how did you hurt your back... :blush


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Man, I sure hope all these side effects subside over time for you! Most of the testimonials I've read say the sides go away after a couple months, so if that's true we don't have much longer to wait.
> 
> True / sad story: I have serious anorgasmia now that I'm at 60mg. After 2 weeks on 45, my libido was still through the roof and would reach climax with no effort at all. In other words, my vacation was a blast!
> 
> All the sudden, at 60, it's dead. I might as well throw in the towel. No libido and if I'm lucky to get up, I'm wasting another 4 hours. Sorry for TMI - I'll save you all the details - but I was so determined to reach climax on Saturday that nothing was gonna stop me - and then I eventually threw out my lower back. No joke!
> 
> After what seemed like hours in the most risky of positions, I felt a shock in my lower back and the pain was so intense I thought I was going to be immobile for a week or 2. Luckily it's healed quickly over the last 2 days, and I'm only having trouble getting in and out of the car. Still painful but not as bad as I thought it would be.
> 
> Anyway, when I pulled out my lower back and figured I'd end up in the ER, after a few minutes of shock I painfully managed to make it back to my bedroom.. and proceeded to not give up... LOL.. 1 hour later, success! Needless to say, I'm not going through that again. I've decided to try the nofap/abstinence thing for the next 90 days. I figured there's no better time than now to try this out.



welcome to the land of anorgasmia where the king is a ****ing ******* lol


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> You have to earn your psychedlic mood thing !! You'll get there !


Hopefully i'll be earning that bad boy this week :grin2::clap


----------



## V1bzz

@watertouch just an fyi, i got this msg when trying to reply to your pm (watertouch has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.)


----------



## watertouch

thx, fixed it.


----------



## V1bzz

Today is a good day, not do I only get 1 surprise but 2!! :nerd:

Yes my *modafinil* and *agmatine* arrived!!!! :boogie:clap:boogie:clap:boogie:clap 


I will take 50mg of modafinil in the morning and let you guys know tomorrow how it felt :grin2:

Also, I took 500mg of agmatine about an hour ago and swear i can feel niceness and calmness in my body already!! guess it could be a placebo. I dropped another 500mg to find out for sure :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Me right now...


----------



## V1bzz

Wow, I have put on so much weight... *10.1kg*, *1.5stone*, *22.2pounds*
I was 12.1st when i started nardil. Now I'm 13.7st


----------



## SFC01

**** me, wish I was 13.7 stone, 14.7 would ****ing do


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> **** me, wish I was 13.7 stone, 14.7 would ****ing do


I reckon Modafinil has to be good for abit of weight loss, guessing :nerd:


----------



## Captainmycaptain

I put on 22 pounds in a month. It's difficult to tell whether it's the Nardil, the Seroquel I take for sleep, or both. I am hoping to switch over to Trazodone and stop Seroquel because of the weight gain. Actually, my face doesn't look big and most of my body doesn't appear to be fatter. It is just my stomach. It appears as if there is a 22 pound baby in my stomach. It's really disturbing. I hope to find a girl who has a fetish for guys with pot bellies.


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> I put on 22 pounds in a month. It's difficult to tell whether it's the Nardil, the Seroquel I take for sleep, or both. I am hoping to switch over to Trazodone and stop Seroquel because of the weight gain. Actually, my face doesn't look big and most of my body doesn't appear to be fatter. It is just my stomach. It appears as if there is a 22 pound baby in my stomach. It's really disturbing. I hope to find a girl who has a fetish for guys with pot bellies.


----------



## V1bzz

I'm defo feeling something from it. Just not sure how to describe it.
awesome thing is, I just took a piss and had little to no urinary hesitation,
it felt so good taking a normal piss 

hopefully this will be next...


----------



## V1bzz

Man i've got stinky *** nardil farts going on. never been this potent before


----------



## Nardan

I'm starting it in a couple weeks (are there any bridge meds your doctors scripted, because coming off my anti has been rough.) Hopefully some people have lost weight on this, because I need to...


----------



## Gillman fan

Bridge med: Nortriptyline. No reason to stop using it during MAOI treatment. Quite safe.


----------



## V1bzz

Nardan said:


> I'm starting it in a couple weeks (are there any bridge meds your doctors scripted, because coming off my anti has been rough.) Hopefully some people have lost weight on this, because I need to...


Yay good luck. Hope it works straight away for you :smile2: Keep us updated here in this thread of how your getting on. We have been through it all with nardil and may be able to help :nerd:


----------



## SFC01

know of someone else on the board who has just started nardil as well - hopefully the word is getting round to all these pdocs !!


----------



## Gillman fan

OK Alex, thanks for the advice.

It is clear that you have taken a first step towards a better life.

If you want to take another step, I would recommend you work on spelling and grammar. Your mind is urging you to type quickly, put a lot of posts up on different internet pages. It feels good for your mind to hastily type out a post and hit "post," it gives you a rush of dopamine to share your thoughts with as many people as possible. Getting "likes" on Facebook is just what your mind wants. But you are not your mind. 

Take a deep breath before you post, read what you have typed, and take a look at the words highlighted by the red squiggly lines. You may not be familiar with these words, but you are in control. The spell check feature is there to help you. If you start to take pride in your writing and self-expression you will feel better about yourself.


----------



## V1bzz

Apparantly these - https://www.absorbyourhealth.com/product/adrafinil-300-mg-30-70-100-150-capsules-nootropic/?ref=744&campaign=adrafinil Turn into modafinil in the gut.

Who wants to test it?

I took 300mg of modafinil today as a mega test to see if it works. I do feel more chatty when i'm out (been chatting alot of **** lol) and it helps with the anxiety also. 300mg is too much though, well for me anyway as i have a banging headache and feel abit sick at times. It hasn't helped with the muscle fatigue though =(
I think if I didn't have the real thing I would try out those on the link above.

@SFC01 - i doubt there will be a jiffy bag with these lol

Oh the taste of them, i put one under my tongue and let it desolve. didn't taste of much but when i swilled it around my mouth to swollow omg man, i nearly puked. It tastes like speed did back in the day. took ages to get that foulness out of my mouth erg!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* - i doubt there will be a jiffy bag with these lol


Good, cant have the old dear poking around looking for my stash !!

Have heard of adranifil before, apparently not as good as modafanil though.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Good, cant have the old dear poking around looking for my stash !!
> 
> Have heard of adranifil before, apparently not as good as modafanil though.


If your going to look into getting moddy check out armodifil or as i like to now call it armoddy lol, im shortening everything, tired of trying to spell chit!

The armoddy is more potent. read that site, they all do slightly different things. very odd. also armoddy is the newer version of moddy. produced in 2007. Also won't keep you awake at night, just a purer moddy i think.


----------



## V1bzz

Alex Alvarez said:


> I know what is is to have social anxiety it suck, but the reason you are not happy is because you keep thinking the same thing over and over again we keep playing the same records in our minds telling us negative thoughts,
> 
> The first thing you need to do is, to understand that your mind and you are two separate beings, It's as if you were one and your mind another person living inside of you. OKAY,
> 2 You have to learn to disidentify yourself from your mind, because the mind is always thinking negative thoughts so you learn to observe it, without judging it, let it be as it is, bu know that you are not your mind, you can't because the minds only job is to survive, that's all it wants to do.
> 3 You must become present, This is what I teach my readers. How to become present, close you eyes Imagine, you have been blind for 10 years and after 10 years, you gain your eyesight and the first thing you see is Your mother your son daughter*whoever is the most special and important person in your life, How would you feel? intensify that feeling.*
> 
> Put these in your wallet and read em until they become programed in your mind
> 
> Replace the negative programed thoughts with these words,
> I am in a situation where I'm not familiar but I'm control
> I am not abandoned,
> I can breath
> There is not problem.
> 
> Hope this helps, If you would like to learn more about this you can purchase my book on Amazon.com*
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521261172/ref=rdr_ext_tmb
> 
> Friend on FBK thanking me today.
> Omg Alex thank u and of course, i will buy it really did help me a lot on everything that u talked to me about i been feeling better now. Of course some days i do feel a little down but then i just read the pics u sent me to read and it helps me. Man, i can really say from my heart thank u for helping me out im so glad i reached out to u for help at first i was scared to tell u because i usually dont like to tell people about how i feel but thank u again and i will support ur movement and i will purchase ur book.
> Thank you


Cheers for the post.

Unfortunately for me none of that would work for me. My brain is broken pure and simple. I can tell you the exact moment I broke it, thought all the people who were my raving friends 5 minutes before were now people who were going to tie me up naked and kill me. I can not start to tell you how scary that is.

There are two types of anxiety related illnesses. Some can be fixed by mental exercising, Others are just damaged and need medication to help get a better life.

Please learn and get a better understanding of this illness. really offends me and flucking pisses me off/makes me angry when people think you can just fix it like that. Do you not think we who are all broken have not tried everything under the sun to try and fix ourselves?!?

Don't post here again until you fully understand of what you speak. You are disrespectful to all of us here trying to make a better life for ourselves through alot of pain and discomfort. We battle every single minute of every single day to get better!

That is all.


----------



## V1bzz

Anyone heard of Etizolam? I hear its for anxiety but would like to know more about it


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Anyone heard of Etizolam? I hear its for anxiety but would like to know more about it


I`ve taken plenty of etiz in my time - its a benzo analogue - fast acting but shortish duration and it can make you quite sleepy - great drug though.

Used to be available on these research chemical sites which are now banned in the UK.

Have you found somewhere to get them from ?


----------



## Nardan

Are there any other MAOI/Nardil groups? I saw a post about a FB one that was no longer active.


----------



## Gillman fan

Not that I have seen. It is a niche topic.


----------



## Nardan

Not that niche for here it seems.


----------



## V1bzz

Forgot to say yesterday *10 Weeks at 75mg*

I working out a new stack to go with nardil. Will update later.

So far i'm taking *Nardil + Agmatine + Modafinil*

Be back later


----------



## V1bzz

Nardan said:


> Not that niche for here it seems.


Lots of people on this forum with alot of knowledge about MAOI's and just about any other drug too lol.

I have learnt so much since i started my nardil journey couple of months ago :nerd:


----------



## Captainmycaptain

On Monday, I will get a refill of Gavis Nardil. For the past month and a half, I've been using 60mg of Archimedes Nardil and 30mg of Gavis Nardil. I had to use my supplementary supply of Archimedes Nardil after I fired my last psychiatrist and had to wait a month and a half to meet with a new psychiatrist. At Costco, they have Gavis Nardil, so starting Monday I will be taking 90 mg of Gavis Nardil a day. I will know without a shadow of a doubt within a few days whether Gavis is stronger than Archimedes brand.


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> On Monday, I will get a refill of Gavis Nardil. For the past month and a half, I've been using 60mg of Archimedes Nardil and 30mg of Gavis Nardil. I had to use my supplementary supply of Archimedes Nardil after I fired my last psychiatrist and had to wait a month and a half to meet with a new psychiatrist. At Costco, they have Gavis Nardil, so starting Monday I will be taking 90 mg of Gavis Nardil a day. I will know without a shadow of a doubt within a few days whether Gavis is stronger than Archimedes brand.


Look forward to yuor update :smile2:

how are you feeling from what you have taken so far?


----------



## Captainmycaptain

My depression is completely relieved, but my anxiety is still as bad as ever.


----------



## watertouch

^You guys are really selling this Nardil thing, hehe. 
Well there aint that much else left to try, but still...


----------



## V1bzz

Any of you guys get the random agmatine smokey breath? I think they disolve on the way down. 
If anyone had just seen me they would have thought I just took a massive drag of a cigarette.
Fluck man it's done it a few times now, freaking me right out!


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> My depression is completely relieved, but my anxiety is still as bad as ever.


I believe they say that an effective nardil hits depression first then starts to deal with the anxiety side of things.

They say

:nerd:


----------



## Gillman fan

I believe Dr. Gillman said that somewhere. 

The whole Nardil metabolism thing is bizarre. I think Nardil's metabolite is actually responsible for inhibiting GABA transimerase? So Nardil disables MAO, but some of it needs to be metabolized by MAO in order to create that GABA effect.

I wonder if Nardil starts to lose effectiveness at higher doses? I have no idea how the interaction of MAO and Nardil works out at the molecular level. Basically they are both trying to kill each other... probably what matters is which "end" of the molecules end up colliding.


----------



## WillComp

I'm wondering the same thing about Nardil. To be honest, I'm a bit confused by the level of doses. I started Nardil 6 weeks ago -- I'm now at 2 weeks at 60. After reading mr t's sticky thread a few weeks ago, I decided I would work my way up to 60 and then stay there until I feel the full effect. I believe he said he was at 60 for over a year and it completely destroyed his SA. Then he went down to 45 as a maintenance dose and felt just as good. He also said there's a trick to combat low libido/anorgasmia. After a few months on 60, if you're still dealing with sexual sides, simply reduce to 45 for 2 weeks, then go back up to 60. That did the trick for him. 

Why should anyone go past 60, especially if they say once it kicks in you should continue to feel improvements for up to a year? I've read that most people go up to 60, 75 or 90. If 60 isn't enough, how and when would I know to increase my dosage? It's all so confusing.


----------



## watertouch

WillComp said:


> Why should anyone go past 60, especially if they say once it kicks in you should continue to feel improvements for up to a year? I've read that most people go up to 60, 75 or 90. If 60 isn't enough, how and when would I know to increase my dosage? It's all so confusing.


It is based from experience by Drs who treat their patients with MAOIs .

Here is some links you might find interesting.

*Jonathan O. Cole, MD*
_Senior consultant in psychopharmacology McLean Hospital, Belmont, MA Professor of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School_ 
https://pro.psychcentral.com/this-m...d-reflections-on-the-use-of-maois/002956.html


> *TCPR: What would have been a more adequate dose?*
> *Dr. Cole:* At least 60 mg, but probably higher. One rule of thumb I got from my colleague Don Robinson, who has done most of the work on Nardil, is that 1 mg/kg is a good threshold for Nardil.
> *TCPR: That would mean about 75 mg/day or more for many patients. That is a pretty high dose!*
> *Dr. Cole:* I know. But what Robinson found was that people below that threshold had a 30% improvement rate versus a 60% improvement rate above that dose. Jay Amsterdam at the University of Pennsylvania goes up as high as 120 mg of Parnate(tranylcypramine) and claims fewer side effects at higher doses.


Another page, Jonathan Cole writes more here about dosing. Page 2 is worth a read.
http://www.mdedge.com/currentpsychi...itors-option-worth-trying-treatment-resistant


> A rule of thumb is to start with one MAOI pill the first day and increase the dosage by one pill every 4 to 7 days until these levels are reached:
> 
> 
> 1 mg/kg/d for phenelzine;
> 40 mg/d for tranylcypromine and isocarboxazid;
> 45 mg/d for selegiline.
> Reduce the dosage if side effects occur, or increase it if improvement is not noted in 1 to 2 months. We've tried starting patients on the 1 mg/kg dose of phenelzine the first day and elicited rapid and severe insomnia. Other intolerable side effects can also emerge from too-rapid dosage escalation. Clinical experience suggests the dosage ranges shown in table1


Dr Ken Gillman about how long it takes after reaching a high enough dose
http://www.neiglobal.com/Activities/2012CurbConsultPosted/tabid/328/Default.aspx


> Once that dose has been reached how long it takes to notice a response rather depends on who is looking, and for what. If you concentrate on anergia and anhedonia you will see significant improvements more rapidly than if you concentrate on subjective symptoms (especially anxiety). In patients demonstrating even minor degrees of psychomotor retardation improvements in volume, speed and tone of voice, and reactive facial expression, these improvements are frequently observable within days (the word "animation" is perhaps the most satisfactory single descriptor). Substantial improvement in energy levels are likely to be noticeable within 10 to 14 days (of reaching a proper therapeutic dose). It is remarkable how many patients do not report subjective improvement for longer periods.
> Note: When phenelzine is used for chronic anxiety allow 2-3 months for improvement.
> P. Ken Gillman, MB, BS, MRC Psych.​


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I'm wondering the same thing about Nardil. To be honest, I'm a bit confused by the level of doses. I started Nardil 6 weeks ago -- I'm now at 2 weeks at 60. After reading mr t's sticky thread a few weeks ago, I decided I would work my way up to 60 and then stay there until I feel the full effect. I believe he said he was at 60 for over a year and it completely destroyed his SA. Then he went down to 45 as a maintenance dose and felt just as good. He also said there's a trick to combat low libido/anorgasmia. After a few months on 60, if you're still dealing with sexual sides, simply reduce to 45 for 2 weeks, then go back up to 60. That did the trick for him.
> 
> Why should anyone go past 60, especially if they say once it kicks in you should continue to feel improvements for up to a year? I've read that most people go up to 60, 75 or 90. If 60 isn't enough, how and when would I know to increase my dosage? It's all so confusing.


would reducing so much not cause witdrawals. sounds interesting what this guy/gal says but i'm confused with the what to do next....


----------



## WillComp

Thanks watertouch for the info and links. Lot of interesting information there I didn't know about. Some of it cleared up my confusion, and other statements seemed too vague and possibly made up, like the data about 60% improvement at higher than 75 vs 30% at lower than 75. Really? LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> would reducing so much not cause witdrawals. sounds interesting what this guy/gal says but i'm confused with the what to do next....


I'm confused about what to do next too.

I was really hoping to stay at 60. Anything more than that is too damn expensive.

I guess if that rule of thumb is true, 1mg/1kg, then I need to eventually increase to at least 75. I'm gonna wait at least 3 months though before I decide to go up.

Believe it or not, I'm getting every single **** SE that you've been inflicted with. It's crazy we're all going through the same ****.

The worst is ED and anorgasmia, constipation, urinary hesitation, dry mouth, confusion, feeling unwell, diminished cognitive function, can't write a post without spelling errors in just about every sentence (just re-read my post before editing and... holy ****, :wtfOmg this is freaking me out) extreme fatigue, and yep just got it: hypofreakintension!! :fall

I just drove to the store, got out of the car too fast and literally blacked out walking through the parking lot. It scared the crap out of me. I have no idea how I stayed on my feet. I luckily found a bench to sit on outside the door, but continued to feel like I was going to faint for another 5 min. I thought there was no way I wasn't going to faint.. dizzy as **** and stars everywhere, OMG!

I swear this better all be worth it in the end. Hhahah. I'm holding on and keeping the faith! And good luck to you, V1!. Congrats on making it to 10 weeks!







:clap I'm jealous you're that far along. I think you're almost there, about to see the light at the end of this long-***** tunnel. Crossing my fingers for you!


----------



## watertouch

WillComp said:


> Thanks watertouch for the info and links. Lot of interesting information there I didn't know about. Some of it cleared up my confusion, and other statements seemed too vague and possibly made up, like the data about 60% improvement at higher than 75 vs 30% at lower than 75. Really? LOL
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Na i think that statement is about the threshold of the 1mg/kg dose compared to doses that are lower (< 0.8 mg/kg). 


> Thus, within a patient group receiving a fixed phenelzine dosage schedule of 60 mg/day, lighter patients who get the greater relative dose tend to improve more than the heavier patients


http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/nardil-dosing-1902930/

But something that is not adressed is the initial Nardil "hypomania" that alot of people get.
So i think that the 2-3 month is a better time frame, specially for anxiety...

Its an article by Blanco 2010, that mentions MAIOs, and social anxiety. Im gonna see if i can find it.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I'm confused about what to do next too.
> 
> I was really hoping to stay at 60. Anything more than that is too damn expensive.
> 
> I guess if that rule of thumb is true, 1mg/1kg, then I need to eventually increase to at least 75. I'm gonna wait at least 3 months though before I decide to go up.
> 
> Believe it or not, I'm getting every single **** SE that you've been inflicted with. It's crazy we're all going through the same ****.
> 
> The worst is ED and anorgasmia, constipation, urinary hesitation, dry mouth, confusion, feeling unwell, diminished cognitive function, can't write a post without spelling errors in just about every sentence (just re-read my post before editing and... holy ****, :wtfOmg this is freaking me out) extreme fatigue, and yep just got it: hypofreakintension!! :fall
> 
> I just drove to the store, got out of the car too fast and literally blacked out walking through the parking lot. It scared the crap out of me. I have no idea how I stayed on my feet. I luckily found a bench to sit on outside the door, but continued to feel like I was going to faint for another 5 min. I thought there was no way I wasn't going to faint.. dizzy as **** and stars everywhere, OMG!
> 
> I swear this better all be worth it in the end. Hhahah. I'm holding on and keeping the faith! And good luck to you, V1!. Congrats on making it to 10 weeks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :clap I'm jealous you're that far along. I think you're almost there, about to see the light at the end of this long-***** tunnel. Crossing my fingers for you!


Mate i'm really sorry your having to go through all that chit. it really is a horrible time. just know that the hypotension will pass in a few weeks as mine did. Your just going to have to take it easy for a little bit. Get into the habit of when you get out of bed or a seat to just move slowly up, let the chit pass until you can stand then wobble about the house walking like a ftard lol. People used to ask me if I was drunk, i used to tell them to fluck off.

I had my first drink of alcohol this year last night and i need to go for a piss so bad but this urinary thing won't let me. I stood there for about 30mins and just a trickle came out. My agmatine ran out yesterday so missing that big time. it really does help with the side effects. the first day i took it i was able to urinate like a normal person for the first time in 2 months.

Please try and get some. I also notice when I don't take my aggy how much it is actually helping, it defo gives you an improved mood.

Even though your are in a rough crappy time right now mate don't let it make you give up, the prize you get at the end is supposed to be amazing


----------



## V1bzz

Had my first drink of this year last night and i woke up with the usual hanging feeling saying im never drinking again, why did i do it etc etc.
So I take my nardil and the hangover negative feelings just go, must be the massive dopamine release they initially give. loving that. So once they kick in, combining hangover tiredness and nardil tiredness i'm literally falling asleep at the keyboard. I really don't want to sleep all day so drop 100 modafinil...it doesnt help so drop a whole 200mg. Give it time to work and still sitting at the laptop falling asleep trying to mix an old song i made in fl studio.

So i wait for abit and i'm still just flaking out at the keyboard. Really missing my aggy right now, ran out last night and waiting for new stuff to be delivered. I think the aggyy would have pushed this tiredness away.

so still falling asleep i drop another 200mg of modafini (moddy) thats my dose at 500mg now. well at the moment i'm still falling asleep and have really bad muscle fatigue in my lower back and butt cheeks.

By thew way i know my moddy is real as have done a lick and met in mouth test, its exactly as everyone describe it online. when i melt it under my tongue it jut tastes gritty and powdery. that is until i swill it around my mouth to swollow, it then tastes like how speed used to taste in the early 90's.
makes me wonder if they sent pills with a touch of speed in it and not the proper stuff. I say that because speed doesn't work for me anymore, it is what broke my brain 15yrs ago through abuse.

will let you guys know if this 500mg actually does anything. at the moment i'm still falling asleep at the keyboard trying to play ufc 2 on xbox and mix music lol.

For any of you that didn't know, I make house music for 4 record labels, mainly deep house at the moment but sometimes abit of tech house.
I have a deep house track called 'sunset orgy' going through the release process now. will let you guys hear once it fully goes through.

I maybe releasing this soon - https://www.cloudbounce.com/v1bzz/tracks/wish

Let me know if you think i should?
dsmn its so hard keeping my eyes open lol, damn moddy is a piece of chit!


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## Xtcismygo2

You aren't alone. I've experienced hypotension fatigue and headaches. But I'm more wimpy than you. The highest dose I've taken is 30mg. My bp is normally normal; now it's slightly below normal. I'm now back down to 15mg and tapering off. Hypotension is a side effect that usually doesn't go away when continuing a med as you've noticed. Hypotension can also cause depression. Nardil may not be for you man.


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## V1bzz

Xtcismygo2 said:


> You aren't alone. I've experienced hypotension fatigue and headaches. But I'm more wimpy than you. The highest dose I've taken is 30mg. My bp is normally normal; now it's slightly below normal. I'm now back down to 15mg and tapering off. Hypotension is a side effect that usually doesn't go away when continuing a med as you've noticed. Hypotension can also cause depression. Nardil may not be for you man.


My hypotensio has passed now my bp went back into ormal zones last week:grin2:

by thr way the modafinil has made me feel much worse than i did.terrible worthless stuff, the rest is going on the bin. need to take a nap now as feel terrible.


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## watertouch

@*V1bzz* 
I might be completely tonedeath, but your song, from 1:48 and abit forward, sound abit like the intro 7seconds in, of Kent-Kärleken väntar


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## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> @*V1bzz*
> I might be completely tonedeath, but your song, from 1:48 and abit forward, sound abit like the intro 7seconds in, of Kent-Kärleken väntar


Maybe different ears. I can't hear it lol but you may be right cos im abit flucked up today. that modafinil had made me feel like i have a serious case of flu! horrible worthless, useless dirty stuff has found a new home in the bin!!


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## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Maybe different ears. I can't hear it lol but you may be right cos im abit flucked up today. that modafinil had made me feel like i have a serious case of flu! horrible worthless, useless dirty stuff has found a new home in the bin!!


Its the melody of your "synth/piano" "track" im thinking of, yours is however faster, than the Kent song...

But yeah, otherwise it sounds ok! 
Not my type of music though.

Make sure to send @SFC01 a copy, so he can use it for his rave partys! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Its the melody of your "synth/piano" "track" im thinking of, yours is however faster, than the Kent song...
> 
> But yeah, otherwise it sounds ok!
> Not my type of music though.
> 
> Make sure to send @SFC01 a copy, so he can use it for his rave partys! :grin2:


Yeah haha, we'll get SAD rave going on in here...


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## V1bzz

I've just realised why I feel so terrible today....the damn hypotension is back!!
Couldn't put a finger on what was familiar about how bad i felt today...then i stood up and remembered!
Man I forgot how bad it used to make me feel, can't believe i put up with this for months!

This is cos of the moddy, im sure of it. damn horrible stuff!


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## SFC01

watertouch said:


> *Not my type of music though.*
> 
> Make sure to send @*SFC01* a copy, so he can use it for his rave partys! :grin2:


 @V1bzz, throw some ABBA samples in next time then watertouch will be the one raving :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, throw some ABBA samples in next time then watertouch will be the one raving :grin2:


It's too late, it was all a ruse!
Someone sent me this video of him listening to my track...


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## SFC01

haha, I`ve felt like that a good few times !!


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## V1bzz

Indeed. I miss those days!


----------



## Xtcismygo2

How are you feeling now that you've been on nardil for More than a month. I'm just starting week 3 at 30 mg and I feel poisoned. Just an overall nasty feeling.


----------



## sad1231234

Im quite hesitant to take any medications. Im very wary of any negative side effects or of accidentally mixing it something else. Does nardil have a big impact on SA?


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> throw some ABBA samples in next time then watertouch will be the one raving :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Xtcismygo2 said:


> How are you feeling now that you've been on nardil for More than a month. I'm just starting week 3 at 30 mg and I feel poisoned. Just an overall nasty feeling.


Hey, I find it does pass but then returns for abit every new dosage. I'm in the nast zone again now for the 75mg kicking in. It's not nice but you just have to ride it out :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

sad1231234 said:


> Im quite hesitant to take any medications. Im very wary of any negative side effects or of accidentally mixing it something else. Does nardil have a big impact on SA?


Yes I think it's classed as the top drug for anxiety. It just has alot of side effects but you may be lucky like others here and not get any :smile2:


----------



## WillComp

I've been on Nardil for 7 weeks and I've had terrible side effects as well, but many of them are slowly fading away, like urinary hesitation and constipation. 


I've found ways to combat most of my side effects. Grapes are the best thing ever! It's a laxative, and I've been snacking on them all day long at my desk. Grapes has so many health benefits - the most noticeable benefit is helping with dry mouth. It's better than water or Luden's moisture drops. If someone comes to my office and I'm forced to talk, I just snack on some grapes and it gets rid of the dry mouth immediately and lasts a long time. 


I'm back to weight training and running, and that's helped a lot with the fatigue side effect. Another way to combat fatigue is to fight to stay awake and never take any naps during the day. If I find myself nodding off, I get up, walk around and then surf the internet for things that keep me alert (e.g. news on Trump's impending impeachment :haha). 


Then I go to bed at 9:30 and get a good 8-9 hours of sleep. Before I was doing this, I would fall asleep at my desk and was forced to take caffeine pills. Now I don't even need caffeine, and my sleep apnea (waking up every 30 min by a weird, embarrassingly loud snorting or sudden body jolt) is improving each night. Last night I only woke up 3 times. During the day I don't feel much fatigue anymore. 


Some of the other side effects and ways to combat are a bit TMI so I won't go into detail. LOL 


After 7 weeks on Nardil, I can honestly say I'm finally feeling relief from SA. I'm still at 60 and don't plan on increasing any time soon. Before Nardil, every day at work was a nightmare. My office neighbors were so weirded out by me because I never talked and when I did I'd be so nervous and full of anxiety. Now I can actually function and think straight when I talk. My anxiety on most days is pretty much non-existant, at least compared to what it was 7 weeks ago. 7 weeks ago, SA on a typical work day = 8/10. Now, SA on a typical day = 3/10. It still hasn't fully kicked in. I'm not sure when it started kicking in, it's been very subtle which I wasn't expecting. 


On Friday I have to give a 30-second update in front of a bunch of people in a staff meeting. I've done this 4 times in the past and each time my voice was really shaky and even if read my notes in front of me I'd still stumble over my words and struggle to string a sentence together. I would also blush and get sweaty hands. Basically my anxiety leading up to me talking would become so intense that by the time I'd talk I was in full-mode panic. The whole dynamic of the room would change, it would get real quiet and tense. Anyway, Friday will be the biggest test for Nardil yet. Thinking about it now, my anxiety is getting higher - probably a 4 out of 10. 


I always write long posts - I'll try to keep them shorter from now on. :grin2:


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## WillComp

If anyone wants to read a very encouraging thread, check out this Nardil thread, My Nardil Journey, started by Barry1685 in July 2014: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/my-nardil-journey-1111641/

It took him about 2 months for it to kick in. I don't know how I missed this thread.. I read it yesterday, the whole thread, and it got me pumped!


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


>


**** me mate, all that beer and training finally paying off Big A.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> For any of you that didn't know, I make house music for 4 record labels, mainly deep house at the moment but sometimes abit of tech house.
> I have a deep house track called 'sunset orgy' going through the release process now. will let you guys hear once it fully goes through.
> 
> I maybe releasing this soon - https://www.cloudbounce.com/v1bzz/tracks/wish
> 
> Let me know if you think i should?
> dsmn its so hard keeping my eyes open lol, damn moddy is a piece of chit!


I've been out of the loop for a couple days. Is this for real?

I'll have to check it out when I get home. :boogie


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## Xtcismygo2

Okay wow. It's been just over two weeks at 30mg. I feel so calm today. Damn I haven't felt this way since forever. If only nardil doesn't poop out then this is my drug for life. I really feel calm around people now at work. I also supplement with propranolol for essential tremor. I'm feeling great!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I've been out of the loop for a couple days. Is this for real?
> 
> I'll have to check it out when I get home. :boogie


Yeah, do you like it? :grin2: I've actually made quite a few changes and had it mastered. I released it tonight, self release so should start to appear in stores shortly :smile2:

This is the new mastered version 




Just an FYI for everyone here. I've decided to start again on the Nardil. I really think I rushed it too much thinking the higher the dose the better. As from tomorrow i'm going down to 45 for a week then i will drop to either 30 or 15, 15 depending on how it feels after a few days. I'm going to give my brain abit of a break and let MAO recover then start all again lol. this time though i'm taking it slower. I won't move up until sides are gone from each dosing. 
I went out today to visit a friend in hospital and I couldn't wait to get out of there, checking the clock every 30 seconds. Not being able to speak in my normal voice. Speaking really quiet and then flucking it up. I was back to normal today 0% anxiety inhibition.
Something weird happened when i spotted him and walked into the ward, its like I blacked out for a few millaseconds. felt wobbly and weird for a few more. It really freaked me out. I'm also getting heart palpiations again, shaky nervous hands, well everything is back to normal. So i'm going to try again.

Wish me luck folks, I need it. Have been so down today because of this crap. I'm not giving up, just having a set back for a few weeks and then i'll be back on it lol.

Hopefully I will get it working like it has for everyone else. I will get this to work so i can live!!


----------



## Xtcismygo2

MAOIs are going to make a serious comeback. It's a good thing we have the internet so people can know the truth about big pharma and their profit driven motives with newly patented WORTHLESS SSRIs.


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, good luck with it mate !!

How long do you think you will drop to 15mg for, just a day or so ?


----------



## V1bzz

Xtcismygo2 said:


> Okay wow. It's been just over two weeks at 30mg. I feel so calm today. Damn I haven't felt this way since forever. If only nardil doesn't poop out then this is my drug for life. I really feel calm around people now at work. I also supplement with propranolol for essential tremor. I'm feeling great!


Wow it's really working quick for you. really happy for you :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, good luck with it mate !!
> 
> How long do you think you will drop to 15mg for, just a day or so ?


Thanks buddy. Don't really know to be honest. I'm just winging it right now. I guess this is a good way to know if Nardil was doing anything but make me feel ill lol
I don't know what it is about this drug but I feel like I can't give up on it just yet. I guess it's because it seems to work for everyone in this thread. I feel really happy for them but gutted at the same time. I wanted us all to get better together. I don't know whats up with me. My brain just won't let me get better, it's like it's punishing me for all the crap I put it through lol


----------



## watertouch

Xtcismygo2 said:


> Okay wow. It's been just over two weeks at 30mg. I feel so calm today. Damn I haven't felt this way since forever. If only nardil doesn't poop out then this is my drug for life. I really feel calm around people now at work. I also supplement with propranolol for essential tremor. I'm feeling great!


Nice!, Yes research and experience from Physicans, puts Nardil as the weapon of choice for treatment resistent Social Anxiety/social phobia. 
Note: Both Phenelzine and propranolol can lower you Bloodsugar lvl. Also Phenelzine usually cause weight gain.

Do a search on: Bayer contour 
Its a bloodsugar messuring device, if your lucky, they send out a free device to the country and adress that your at. They usually cost like 20£ $ €...
One usually gets 5 needles+5strips with it.Good for 5 readings
(its the strips and needles that cost money, thats how they get ya)...
*Im not saying that you need a bloodsugar device!!! *
But that, if its free and with them meds, why not.



> *Phenelzine efficacy in refractory social anxiety disorder: A case series*
> Phenelzine is effective in social phobia, and *no treatment has been shown to be superior to phenelzine*. Hence, phenelzine is a reasonable option for patients unresponsive to other treatments


http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08039480310002110

I have his book, (its ehh ok).


----------



## watertouch

For you chaps in the UK see if this link works for a free bloodsugar messuring device.
https://diabetes.ascensia.co.uk/SSL/eligibility-form/nc.php?type=contour-black-web


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Yeah, do you like it? :grin2: I've actually made quite a few changes and had it mastered. I released it tonight, self release so should start to appear in stores shortly :smile2:
> 
> This is the new mastered version
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/v1bzz%2Fwish-in-stores-soon


Just listened to it. I like it, good job man. Sounds tight.. sounds like something you'd hear in a club or on the radio at 2:30 in the morning. There's definitely a market for this and sounds great.

V1bzz is the man! :nw


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Just listened to it. I like it, good job man. Sounds tight.. sounds like something you'd hear in a club or on the radio at 2:30 in the morning. There's definitely a market for this and sounds great.
> 
> V1bzz is the man! :nw


Haha, that's just the drugs talkin :grin2:


----------



## Sweeto

What's better with Nardil, go cold turkey or tapering down?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> What's better with Nardil, go cold turkey or tapering down?


Got to be tapering I reckon man but not sure. depends what you are doing. seen some members write that they just stopped taking it for a couple of days then went back to their normal dose.

why whats up? everything ok?

Update by the way. I'm *8 weeks @ 75mg* but i'm *day 1 at 30mg* cos i'm starting again.

Weird poo was happening in my sleep last night once during the night and twice within 30mins about 5am. How do i describe this, it wasn't the usual twitching I get as i'm dropping off to sleep. I was dreaming and banged into something in my dream and my body jerked and i kicked the end of the bed really hard (ouch toes!)
Then twice this morning same little dream, as random as this is i was on like a kids plastic toy car or tractor or summin and bumped into the corner of a building. made my body severely jerk both times so i woke up, but woke up saying ouch because of how much I jerked back or sideways.

I'm a weird flucker aint I lol :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Weird poo was happening in my sleep last night once during the night and twice within 30mins about 5am. How do i describe this, it wasn't the usual twitching I get as i'm dropping off to sleep. I was dreaming and banged into something in my dream and my body jerked and i kicked the end of the bed really hard (ouch toes!)


I had just had an operation on my elbow where they had put an external metal frame into my arm and I kept getting infections - one night when I had a fever I dreamt that I was being chased by ISIS into a hotel whilst shooting at me, so I jumped down behind this wall to get away and woke up with a bang, stuck in a tangled mess between my bed, the armchair and wardrobe !! **** me it hurt

and, there was the time before that when I woke up at the bottom of the stairs with my left arm sticking out all ways !! I was on trimipramine then !!


----------



## WillComp

I haven't been dreaming much lately. When I first started Nardil, I was remembering every weird vivid dream. I miss the dreams and deep sleep.  

Lately I've been dealing with sleep apnea, waking up randomly by jerks or loud noises I make, usually as I'm falling asleep. It's so strange, it's mostly the same noise each time, like a very loud snorting noise similar to what you hear when someone snorts while laughing. But this is twice as loud as a normal snort. And sometimes I'll grunt just as I'm falling asleep. 

The other night I was waking up to random jerks as I'd fall asleep.. and once I had a full body jolt sort of like you'd see when someone's dying and they're trying to revive them by shocking the body. You'd think I'd be freaked out, but I immediately laughed, turned over and tried to go back to sleep. I'm definitely a different person on this drug. LOL


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I had just had an operation on my elbow where they had put an external metal frame into my arm and I kept getting infections - one night when I had a fever I dreamt that I was being chased by ISIS into a hotel whilst shooting at me, so I jumped down behind this wall to get away and woke up with a bang, stuck in a tangled mess between my bed, the armchair and wardrobe !! **** me it hurt
> 
> and, there was the time before that when I woke up at the bottom of the stairs with my left arm sticking out all ways !! I was on trimipramine then !!


OMG!! 

P.s - check out my new vid in my siggy, actually why am i saying this, it's hard to miss it LOL!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I haven't been dreaming much lately. When I first started Nardil, I was remembering every weird vivid dream. I miss the dreams and deep sleep.
> 
> Lately I've been dealing with sleep apnea, waking up randomly by jerks or loud noises I make, usually as I'm falling asleep. It's so strange, it's mostly the same noise each time, like a very loud snorting noise similar to what you hear when someone snorts while laughing. But this is twice as loud as a normal snort. And sometimes I'll grunt just as I'm falling asleep.
> 
> The other night I was waking up to random jerks as I'd fall asleep.. and once I had a full body jolt sort of like you'd see when someone's dying and they're trying to revive them by shocking the body. You'd think I'd be freaked out, but I immediately laughed, turned over and tried to go back to sleep. I'm definitely a different person on this drug. LOL


I think this must be a common thing with nardil. exactly the same mate


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, brill tune and vid mate, well done, and yeah it was hard to miss.

If you want me pulling some moves in your next vid then give me a shout, may have to edit out my left arm though so I`ll only charge half my normal fee.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, brill tune and vid mate, well done, and yeah it was hard to miss.
> 
> If you want me pulling some moves in your next vid then give me a shout, may have to edit out my left arm though so I`ll only charge half my normal fee.


I'll get us all in it, will be brilliant, big nardil tits and pot bellies everywhere hahaha :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'll get us all in it, will be brilliant, big nardil tits and pot bellies everywhere hahaha :grin2:


:grin2: haha, yeah the birds will love it !!


----------



## Laedus

SSRIs were the devil. Not only did they break my dick but they didn't do ANYTHING for anxiety!

Mirtazapine was the best thing for me but the weight gain was horrible and the poop out level is high.

Is this the right drug for me? I need something mostly for anxiety and a little for depression. I can get over depression but I can't get over anxiety.

I need something that doesn't disturb libido. I'm sick of these drugs that ruin your sex life and I will never take them.


----------



## SFC01

Laedus said:


> SSRIs were the devil. Not only did they break my dick but they didn't do ANYTHING for anxiety!
> 
> Mirtazapine was the best thing for me but the weight gain was horrible and the poop out level is high.
> 
> Is this the right drug for me? I need something mostly for anxiety and a little for depression. I can get over depression but I can't get over anxiety.
> 
> I need something that doesn't disturb libido. I'm sick of these drugs that ruin your sex life and I will never take them.


It removed all traces of anxiety for me Laedus, every last bit !! and did the same for my depression.

As for libido, well I`m hornier than a revved up goat on meth.


----------



## Laedus

SFC01 said:


> It removed all traces of anxiety for me Laedus, every last bit !! and did the same for my depression.
> 
> As for libido, well I`m hornier than a revved up goat on meth.


That's amazing. How do I sample it without spending $150 on a doctors visit?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> It removed all traces of anxiety for me Laedus, every last bit !! and did the same for my depression.
> 
> As for libido, well I`m hornier than a revved up goat on meth.


----------



## WillComp

WillComp said:


> On Friday I have to give a 30-second update in front of a bunch of people in a staff meeting. I've done this 4 times in the past and each time my voice was really shaky and even if read my notes in front of me I'd still stumble over my words and struggle to string a sentence together. I would also blush and get sweaty hands. Basically my anxiety leading up to me talking would become so intense that by the time I'd talk I was in full-mode panic. The whole dynamic of the room would change, it would get real quiet and tense. Anyway, Friday will be the biggest test for Nardil yet. Thinking about it now, my anxiety is getting higher - probably a 4 out of 10.


Update on the today's meeting: I had to talk longer than the 30 seconds. More like 1-2 minutes. I had anxiety in the days leading up to today, and when I woke up I felt anxious and heart started beating rapidly. I didn't have that usual sick anxiety feeling throughout my body though.

Took 25 mg Atenolol + .75 mg Klonopin + my usual dosage of Nardil (30 in the morning) at 7:45 before leaving for work. Meeting started at 10:00. Leading up to the meeting, I decided to write down notes, exactly what I'd say, since I tend to stumble over my words and lose track of my thoughts in mid-sentence. In the minutes leading up to the meeting, I had little anxiety, much less than usual. I had to wait for my turn to talk and never went into panic mode, just a little bit nervous. When it was my turn to speak, I started reading my notes, looking up every now and then, so it wouldn't look so awkward. Room was still quiet and tense. My voice was shaky during 2 sentences at the beginning, I stumbled over a few words, like I said "I'll need to correct the area" instead of "I'll need to correct the error", but it wasn't as bad as before. I didn't blush, hands stayed dry, and as I got going my tone changed and I expressed myself more rather than speaking in a monotone voice.

I had to speak twice after that, and both those times I looked forward to speaking, and I came off perfectly normal. Those first few sentences where my voice started to shake and stumbled over a few words might have been a bit awkward though. That said, I'm proud of myself. I never thought I'd be able to talk in my normal sounding voice and finally come off as normal in a staff meeting. I'm already nervous about next time though. Doh! My mind is fukced. :doh


----------



## Jaffa012524

WillComp said:


> Update on the today's meeting: I had to talk longer than the 30 seconds. More like 1-2 minutes. I had anxiety in the days leading up to today, and when I woke up I felt anxious and heart started beating rapidly. I didn't have that usual sick anxiety feeling throughout my body though.
> 
> Took 25 mg Atenolol + .75 mg Klonopin + my usual dosage of Nardil (30 in the morning) at 7:45 before leaving for work. Meeting started at 10:00. Leading up to the meeting, I decided to write down notes, exactly what I'd say, since I tend to stumble over my words and lose track of my thoughts in mid-sentence. In the minutes leading up to the meeting, I had little anxiety, much less than usual. I had to wait for my turn to talk and never went into panic mode, just a little bit nervous. When it was my turn to speak, I started reading my notes, looking up every now and then, so it wouldn't look so awkward. Room was still quiet and tense. My voice was shaky during 2 sentences at the beginning, I stumbled over a few words, like I said "I'll need to correct the area" instead of "I'll need to correct the error", but it wasn't as bad as before. I didn't blush, hands stayed dry, and as I got going my tone changed and I expressed myself more rather than speaking in a monotone voice.
> 
> I had to speak twice after that, and both those times I looked forward to speaking, and I came off perfectly normal. Those first few sentences where my voice started to shake and stumbled over a few words might have been a bit awkward though. That said, I'm proud of myself. I never thought I'd be able to talk in my normal sounding voice and finally come off as normal in a staff meeting. I'm already nervous about next time though. Doh! My mind is fukced. :doh


That's awesome news mate!! If you're improving like that now you'll have more confidence doing the next one so you'll sound even better :grin2:


----------



## Cassoulet94

WillComp said:


> WillComp said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday I have to give a 30-second update in front of a bunch of people in a staff meeting. I've done this 4 times in the past and each time my voice was really shaky and even if read my notes in front of me I'd still stumble over my words and struggle to string a sentence together. I would also blush and get sweaty hands. Basically my anxiety leading up to me talking would become so intense that by the time I'd talk I was in full-mode panic. The whole dynamic of the room would change, it would get real quiet and tense. Anyway, Friday will be the biggest test for Nardil yet. Thinking about it now, my anxiety is getting higher - probably a 4 out of 10.
> 
> 
> 
> Update on the today's meeting: I had to talk longer than the 30 seconds. More like 1-2 minutes. I had anxiety in the days leading up to today, and when I woke up I felt anxious and heart started beating rapidly. I didn't have that usual sick anxiety feeling throughout my body though.
> 
> Took 25 mg Atenolol + .75 mg Klonopin + my usual dosage of Nardil (30 in the morning) at 7:45 before leaving for work. Meeting started at 10:00. Leading up to the meeting, I decided to write down notes, exactly what I'd say, since I tend to stumble over my words and lose track of my thoughts in mid-sentence. In the minutes leading up to the meeting, I had little anxiety, much less than usual. I had to wait for my turn to talk and never went into panic mode, just a little bit nervous. When it was my turn to speak, I started reading my notes, looking up every now and then, so it wouldn't look so awkward. Room was still quiet and tense. My voice was shaky during 2 sentences at the beginning, I stumbled over a few words, like I said "I'll need to correct the area" instead of "I'll need to correct the error", but it wasn't as bad as before. I didn't blush, hands stayed dry, and as I got going my tone changed and I expressed myself more rather than speaking in a monotone voice.
> 
> I had to speak twice after that, and both those times I looked forward to speaking, and I came off perfectly normal. Those first few sentences where my voice started to shake and stumbled over a few words might have been a bit awkward though. That said, I'm proud of myself. I never thought I'd be able to talk in my normal sounding voice and finally come off as normal in a staff meeting. I'm already nervous about next time though. Doh! My mind is fukced.
Click to expand...

A bit of advice, maybe you know it already.

It may seem counter intuitive but having fully written notes tend to make it more difficult because then you tend to read like you would when you read a text in your mind. Problem is, you can't speak as fast as your mind read (and you don't speak as you write), so it usually leads to bad breathing control. As a result you get more anxious and your voice more shaky. 
The best is to have partially written notes (you can write all what you want to say but do not write full sentences) so your brain is not in full reading mode, you focus more on the topic and your voice sounds better.

Also when you are anxious you tend to read faster than you realize so you should read slower than what you think is a normal speed.

And lastly people don't get "tense" because you're anxious that's just a feeling created by anxiety. And they judge you less harshly than you think for being anxious, usually they tend to feel compassionate (it still suck I know).


----------



## Sweeto

I was on 90mg for 6 weeks and overall 9 weeks on Nardil.

My last dose of Nardil - monday 90mg.
Tuesday - 30mg.
Since Tuesday 0mg.

So far no side effects but I hope all my side effects will disappear as soon as possible. On wednesday it was the first time I could have orgasm, it was really strange. But I tried it also today and yesterday without any success



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's better with Nardil, go cold turkey or tapering down?
> 
> 
> 
> Got to be tapering I reckon man but not sure. depends what you are doing. seen some members write that they just stopped taking it for a couple of days then went back to their normal dose.
> 
> why whats up? everything ok?
> 
> Update by the way. I'm *8 weeks @ 75mg* but i'm *day 1 at 30mg* cos i'm starting again.
> 
> Weird poo was happening in my sleep last night once during the night and twice within 30mins about 5am. How do i describe this, it wasn't the usual twitching I get as i'm dropping off to sleep. I was dreaming and banged into something in my dream and my body jerked and i kicked the end of the bed really hard (ouch toes!)
> Then twice this morning same little dream, as random as this is i was on like a kids plastic toy car or tractor or summin and bumped into the corner of a building. made my body severely jerk both times so i woke up, but woke up saying ouch because of how much I jerked back or sideways.
> 
> I'm a weird flucker aint I lol
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Update on the today's meeting: I had to talk longer than the 30 seconds. More like 1-2 minutes. I had anxiety in the days leading up to today, and when I woke up I felt anxious and heart started beating rapidly. I didn't have that usual sick anxiety feeling throughout my body though.
> 
> Took 25 mg Atenolol + .75 mg Klonopin + my usual dosage of Nardil (30 in the morning) at 7:45 before leaving for work. Meeting started at 10:00. Leading up to the meeting, I decided to write down notes, exactly what I'd say, since I tend to stumble over my words and lose track of my thoughts in mid-sentence. In the minutes leading up to the meeting, I had little anxiety, much less than usual. I had to wait for my turn to talk and never went into panic mode, just a little bit nervous. When it was my turn to speak, I started reading my notes, looking up every now and then, so it wouldn't look so awkward. Room was still quiet and tense. My voice was shaky during 2 sentences at the beginning, I stumbled over a few words, like I said "I'll need to correct the area" instead of "I'll need to correct the error", but it wasn't as bad as before. I didn't blush, hands stayed dry, and as I got going my tone changed and I expressed myself more rather than speaking in a monotone voice.
> 
> I had to speak twice after that, and both those times I looked forward to speaking, and I came off perfectly normal. Those first few sentences where my voice started to shake and stumbled over a few words might have been a bit awkward though. That said, I'm proud of myself. I never thought I'd be able to talk in my normal sounding voice and finally come off as normal in a staff meeting. I'm already nervous about next time though. Doh! My mind is fukced. :doh


Conrats man, that is so awesome :O:grin2::clap:boogie

I'm not sure why i haven't asked before but what brand of nardil is everyone taking?
Me and SFC01 are on archimedes, it has worked brillinatly for him but has 0% effect on me now. I did get up to a nice 30% but i'm completely back to normal now, basically a complete nervous wreck.

I managed to pluck up the courage today to speak to my pharmacist, it was a real awkward situation with me shaking , heart pounding, voice sounding different and quiet etc. She was really helpful, I asked her if she was able to get me any different brands of nardil as archimedes has been giving me hellish side effects but none of the benefits. She checked, unluckily they only have archicrapedes in the warehouse. She could see i was gutted and obviously really nervous and anxious so she told me a little trick. She said if you get your doctor to write what brand you want on the prescription THEY HAVE TO get you that brand!! She also said to go round all the chemists in the area and ask them what brand they get and what brands they have available!

Unfortunately i will have to ask my incompetent doctor to write that brand, even though it's something so easy i'm sure it will turn into a nightmare, i hate that i have to see her again. she is just such a terrible doctor...seems wank i have to wait till the 19th of june to see her. i'm dreading it already!

There still is hope though! a little bit.

i've dropped my dose to 45mg now, hoping that doing so will somehow get it to start working again. it's probably a really stupid thing to say and think but i just gotta keep on trying!!

what brand you guys on that nardil is working for?

so chuffed for you willcomp, i still have hope to join you on your way to nardil heaven


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I was on 90mg for 6 weeks and overall 9 weeks on Nardil.
> 
> My last dose of Nardil - monday 90mg.
> Tuesday - 30mg.
> Since Tuesday 0mg.
> 
> So far no side effects but I hope all my side effects will disappear as soon as possible. On wednesday it was the first time I could have orgasm, it was really strange. But I tried it also today and yesterday without any success


I forget @Sweeto because my head is a mess, nardil is working for you right? I remember we started around the same time i think, or i was maybe a week or two ahead of you.

what brand you on?


----------



## Sweeto

My rating - depression 8/10, anxiety 4,5-5/10
Brand - Archimedes

Yes it was working especially against depression but it was side effects which made me almost crazy. But my family was very pleased? and I was so good-moody all the time.

I've found that combination klonopin+tramadol /klonopin+subex is the best for me.

What about your side effects?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> My rating - depression 8/10, anxiety 4,5-5/10
> Brand - Archimedes
> 
> Yes it was working especially against depression but it was side effects which made me almost crazy. But my family was very pleased? and I was so good-moody all the time.
> 
> I've found that combination klonopin+tramadol /klonopin+subex is the best for me.
> 
> What about your side effects?


I had pretty much every side effect but insomnia, best i got was maybe 2/10 anxiety but that feels high, 0/10 depression from the start. I had 1 day on nardil where i thought it had started, i felt great anxiety wise but side effects were too aweful to enjoy. I have never experienced it again. I was a long way in when i got that one day. last 2 or 3 weeks it was taking the edge off where i could speak better and be abit more myself but that has all gone now. I think maybe taking modafinil (which didnt work either) or agmatine may have caused what little i had to stop. probably the modafinil.

Just back to my normal self now and it sucks. even the very little help from nardil made life a bit easier. I felt like i was ok talking to people and felt motivated to get up and i got back into work again, enjoyed it. Now everything is just horrible again.

My side effects currently are still no orgasm, mild constipation, unable to piss properly and muscle fatigue, shaky legs especially walking down the stairs and really shaky hands all day. hypotension sometimes maybe once or twice in a day and no motivation. fighting to stay awake at 10 in the morning and pretty much everytime i sit still for too long. Last few days i've been having head shocks as if withdrawing and mini blackouts of a few milliseconds and heart palpitations. also weird dreams (big clue its not working)


----------



## Gillman fan

Hey guys,

I am making a community FAQ and I want to include people who are having difficulties on MAOIs, or who want to describe their side effects, etc. I don't want to paint an overly rosy red picture, these Nardil side effects are something else. 

There are tons of ways you can contribute even if Nardil hasn't helped you. If nothing else, get people to try Parnate first 

The FAQ post is stickied to the top of this forum and is still very much a work in progress, if you want to contribute please PM me and I will PM you the link to the Google document. 

V1bzz - I was in the same boat with no benefits (but no sides either) all the way up to 150 mg Parnate, then 150 mg Parnate + ketamine gave me mild benefits that didn't last. Total drug tolerance. I added Agmatine and my cocktail is now helping me in ways that would require several pages to adequately describe. I think the whole of my cocktail is much greater than the sum of its parts, any one or even any two of these meds and I would still gain no benefit... but the Triple Threat Australian Cocktail has a multiplicative (even exponential) effect.

My point is, you have waited a fairly long time, you should think about augmenting Nardil. I am not going to say my approach is necessarily the best... I don't know how much the triple threat cocktail would help with social anxiety, it made a tremendous difference for me in how I interact with people socially, but my social issues may not be typical. Actually I find "depression" and "social anxiety" to not be very helpful labels. 

Don't give up! You just gotta boost Nardil. Like I said I have 0 experience with Nardil... my cocktail may or may not be helpful to you, but you should start looking into augments for sure.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> My side effects currently are still *no orgasm,* mild constipation, unable to piss properly and* muscle fatigue, shaky legs especially walking down the stairs and really shaky hands all day*.


stop masterbating all day then:grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> stop masterbating all day then:grin2:


Busted!!


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am making a community FAQ and I want to include people who are having difficulties on MAOIs, or who want to describe their side effects, etc. I don't want to paint an overly rosy red picture, these Nardil side effects are something else.
> 
> There are tons of ways you can contribute even if Nardil hasn't helped you. If nothing else, get people to try Parnate first
> 
> The FAQ post is stickied to the top of this forum and is still very much a work in progress, if you want to contribute please PM me and I will PM you the link to the Google document.
> 
> V1bzz - I was in the same boat with no benefits (but no sides either) all the way up to 150 mg Parnate, then 150 mg Parnate + ketamine gave me mild benefits that didn't last. Total drug tolerance. I added Agmatine and my cocktail is now helping me in ways that would require several pages to adequately describe. I think the whole of my cocktail is much greater than the sum of its parts, any one or even any two of these meds and I would still gain no benefit... but the Triple Threat Australian Cocktail has a multiplicative (even exponential) effect.
> 
> My point is, you have waited a fairly long time, you should think about augmenting Nardil. I am not going to say my approach is necessarily the best... I don't know how much the triple threat cocktail would help with social anxiety, it made a tremendous difference for me in how I interact with people socially, but my social issues may not be typical. Actually I find "depression" and "social anxiety" to not be very helpful labels.
> 
> Don't give up! You just gotta boost Nardil. Like I said I have 0 experience with Nardil... my cocktail may or may not be helpful to you, but you should start looking into augments for sure.


Hey, I did start actually to get a stack going, I was on nardil, agmatine and then i added modafinil. The moddy was just useless crap and made me feel off after taking, i also think it may be the cause to why nardil has completely died on me.
Just waiting for my new bottle of aggy to come through then i'll see if it will help boost me at lower levels, im at day 3 now of being on 45mg, a drop from 75mg 3 days a week and 90mg 4 days a week.
I'm actually pretty sure the modafinil is the culprit to ruining everything. I only took it a few times too. took 500mg one day just to make sure it was useless, it was!...for the next 4 days i felt really sick. really weak, hypotension and then realised i had hit rock bottom again.

Oh i'm also waiting for my Piracetam to arrive. if that works i will go onto Noopept. a new 1000 times more potent version of piracetam. noopept is still legal right now so can be easily bought. will get banned soon imo.


----------



## WillComp

I'm taking the Gavis brand. Before Nardil, on average anxiety was super high (8/10), many days I couldn't function, SA was killing me, even w/ klonopin as needed and atenolol once a day. I try to limit klonopin to 5 times a week (anything more and it stops working) and it only lasts 3 hrs, then starts to wear off and I'm back to being paranoid.

With Nardil, anxiety is now 3/10 on average.. never had much depression, only when anxiety got over 8/10. On average, depression was 4/10, now it's 1/10. Nardil is definitely working for me and I couldn't be happier. Well, I'm a little pissed at the moment cuz I woke up at 3am and realized I missed my 30mg last night (I'm on 60/day). Fell asleep right when I got home from work. For those w/experience, will missing this dose affect me in any way?


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Hey, I did start actually to get a stack going, I was on nardil, agmatine and then i added modafinil. The moddy was just useless crap and made me feel off after taking, i also think it may be the cause to why nardil has completely died on me.
> Just waiting for my new bottle of aggy to come through then i'll see if it will help boost me at lower levels, im at day 3 now of being on 45mg, a drop from 75mg 3 days a week and 90mg 4 days a week.
> I'm actually pretty sure the modafinil is the culprit to ruining everything. I only took it a few times too. took 500mg one day just to make sure it was useless, it was!...for the next 4 days i felt really sick. really weak, hypotension and then realised i had hit rock bottom again.
> 
> Oh i'm also waiting for my Piracetam to arrive. if that works i will go onto Noopept. a new 1000 times more potent version of piracetam. noopept is still legal right now so can be easily bought. will get banned soon imo.


Hey man, I'm pulling for you. Don't give up, keep trying different things w/ it. I wouldn't be surprised if all your sides are preventing nardil from kicking in.

I got the same sides as you but I don't think mine are as bad as yours. If you could somehow lessen the severity of the sides, you might start feeling the benefits of nardil. If I had to bet, I'd say if you stick w/ it, it'll eventually start working and soon enough you'll be in Nardil heaven!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> With Nardil, anxiety is now 3/10 on average.. never had much depression, only when anxiety got over 8/10. On average, depression was 4/10, now it's 1/10. Nardil is definitely working for me and I couldn't be happier. Well, I'm a little pissed at the moment cuz I woke up at 3am and realized I missed my 30mg last night (I'm on 60/day). Fell asleep right when I got home from work. For those w/experience, will missing this dose affect me in any way?


Glad its working well so far, and no, missing the dose wont effect you.

I`ve missed whole days before and its been fine - when I had to give up nardil for surgery - it wasnt until the 3rd/4th day that I noticed a drop in mood.


----------



## V1bzz

Feeling super fed up today, anxiety related depression because i have a big party to go to in a few hours. I honestly feel close to tears with all of this today. it's my neices 18th surprise birthday and i was looking forward to being able to go and feel comfortable and relaxed etc. I know I will want to leave the whole time i'm there and just sit uncomfortly playing with my hands looking down feeling really paranoid. Heck I feel so down that I don't really want to go at all now. Such a horrible thing to think and say.
@WillComp - since i dropped to 45 my sides have been pretty well behaved. dreaming has returned though, like i'm dreaming alot.
My fatigue has eased up abit, im getting head shocks now though and mini blackouts. I worked yesterday and could feel i wasn't the same as the last time i worked for the company. I think Nardil has just completely died on me. I could feel it in my motivation to work and interact with people.

I really miss the little bit it was working now it has gone, it was just enough to help me be just a little bit more of my true self. 
Hope my agmatine arrives today. could really do with taking some of that now. I'm sure it helped lift my mood the few days I was taking it.

I won't give up mate, I just feel abit lost again right now.
4 days at 45mg again. wonder if i should do something crazy like drop 105mg just today and see if it shocks the system back into working?
I'm up for trying anything right now =(


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Feeling super fed up today, anxiety related depression because i have a big party to go to in a few hours. I honestly feel close to tears with all of this today. it's my neices 18th surprise birthday and i was looking forward to being able to go and feel comfortable and relaxed etc. I know I will want to leave the whole time i'm there and just sit uncomfortly playing with my hands looking down feeling really paranoid. Heck I feel so down that I don't really want to go at all now. Such a horrible thing to think and say.


Maybe have a couple beers beforehand ?

Its not a horrible thing to say or think, you are suffering mentally right now so you are not going to be in the mood for it. Can you just go for a couple hrs and make an excuse to leave ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Maybe have a couple beers beforehand ?
> 
> Its not a horrible thing to say or think, you are suffering mentally right now so you are not going to be in the mood for it. Can you just go for a couple hrs and make an excuse to leave ?


I think the universe knew I needed a little helping hand today, i just had 3 deliveries through the post!

First the aggy i ordered 8 days ago
second the Piracetam that i didnt expect for another week or more
and third the aggy we both ordered that tried to scam us.

Today ive taken...
x3 Nardil
x1 650mg aggy
and I will take 1g of piracetam

I believe reccomended dosage is 4-9grams of priacetam. this is why noopept is the go to thing now for piracetam, because of the crazy dosing size!


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, guess what just arrived from the postie !! They actually ****ing sent it.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, guess what just arrived from the postie !! They actually ****ing sent it.


Man this is slowly turning into a good day lol


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01

I have taken..
3x nardil
1x aggy
1.2g Piracetam

Will let you know how it goes with the piracetam, if it's anything like the moddy it will be going in the bin and i won't be using that supplier any more.

Will drop another aggy when we leave for the party and maybe another 400-800mg piracetam depending on how it makes me feel over the next couple of hours. If it goes well I will order some Noopept as I only have 30x400mg piracetam. at these dosages they wont last long.

Fingers crossed!


----------



## V1bzz

I was just thinking, smart drugs use alot of choline but doesn't nardil stop choline production?
I have been taking a fat metaboliser for a few days trying to get rid of this pot belly, it possibly may be working a little, just noticed though that it contains choline, good for the piracetam I took but not good for the nardil.

So, could one stop the other from working? for example, say you take alot of smart drugs and take a choline supplement to improve its effectiveness, wouldn't that be bad for nardil? also though taking a smart drug while on nardil would make the effects of the smart drug or even the nardil diminish? as one needs choline and the other doesn't like it.

Or am I looking at it wrong, nardil depletes choline, smart drugs use alot of choline therefore benefiting the nardil but your not going to get effectiveness from the smarts as i didn't from modafinil. Just made me feel poo!

ok i'm totally confused now!

I think this is a question for @watertouch


----------



## V1bzz

Off to the party soon. Not really noticing anything from the Piracetam so dropped another 1.2g

EDIT - actually abit of clarity, clear mindedness


----------



## watertouch

Yeah or the "release of acetylcholine"

Its the action/effect on adrengergic recepors that medicines/substances have that increase noradrenaline/norepinephrine.

This can also happen when people are stressed. (think politicans that have a glass of water standing by, when in a debate)

(urinary hesitancy, constipation and dry mouth, etc.)
An Alpha 1 blocker like tamsulosin can be used specialy for urinary problems, but with an MAOI it can cause lower BP and Orthostatic BP.

The article on mdedge by Jonathan Cole, mentions this problems about MAOI, and how to treat it.
http://www.mdedge.com/currentpsychi...ion-worth-trying-treatment-resistant/page/0/3


> MAOIs are adrenergic agonists, and dry mouth and constipation can occur as side effects; these can be treated with bethanechol.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethanechol


> Bethanechol is a powerful cholinergic agent which does not cross the blood - brain barrier and may have powerful nootropic properties in enhancement of neural signaling and processing speed as well.


Im not sure how something like Citicholine or Alpha- GPC would work for this though, the whole mechanism is really complex.

See this book for a comprehensive overview. 
Goodman & Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, 12th Ed 2011
Link to PDF of that book, 
http://freepages.school-alumni.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dpok/Goodman%20&%20Gilman%27s%20The%20Pharmacological%20Basis%20of%20Therapeutics,%2012th%20Edition.pdf


----------



## watertouch

Otherwise a good breakfast is like 5scrambled eggs, lots of protein and choline! Breakfast for champs!


----------



## Gillman fan

That is an excellent link water. I read some other Jonathon Coleman articles but this one goes into the most detail on treating side effects. I never bothered reading any textbooks.

I think adding meds to treat side effects is one where doctors are very reluctant to pull the trigger. Having good medical citations in this section (such as this article) would help a lot in the FAQ. 

Read any Preskorn textbooks? He was the biggest name before Stahl, at least in the US.


----------



## watertouch

Gillman fan said:


> That is an excellent link water. I read some other Jonathon Coleman articles but this one goes into the most detail on treating side effects. I never bothered reading any textbooks.
> 
> I think adding meds to treat side effects is one where doctors are very reluctant to pull the trigger. Having good medical citations in this section (such as this article) would help a lot in the FAQ.
> 
> Read any Preskorn textbooks? He was the biggest name before Stahl, at least in the US.


No but i will check Preskorn up, or maybe you have some interesting links? 
(or maybe, it did ring a bell. or the words Preskorn and lybbnot or something, after some googleing "Lippincott", came up...)

YES the whole idea that one needs to use another medicine to combat some of the side effects scares Drs.

Ive experienced this first hand, when i was on Parnate and modafinil. 
"Parnate is a stimulating medicine, it works like Amph. You shouldn't need modafinil" :grin2:

They could not understand that i both complained about being tired, but also claimed to have problems falling asleep. While on Parnate....


----------



## V1bzz

Today is kickstart day.

it's been 5 days ir so at 45mg nardil.

I am extremely hungover today so figured good time to fkuc myself up further and see if i can shock the nardil into working again.

my doses so far are...
120mg Nardil
x9 piracetam 3600mg
2000mg agmatine

so far my hangover is much improved. expected to feel fkucked from the nardil but feeling ok so far. will prob be nap time shortly though lol


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Otherwise a good breakfast is like 5scrambled eggs, lots of protein and choline! Breakfast for champs!


Thanks for the excellent info in the links mate. much appreciated!
hope you are doing good today:smile2:


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Thanks for the excellent info in the links mate. much appreciated!
> hope you are doing good today:smile2:


Thanks man! Naa i finally got around to fix the "legs" to that table, the IKEA thing i showed you a picture of... I hurt my back while doing so, i also had to clean that table before, it had my medical chart/journal on it, so i read some of it.
It always puts me in a bad mood! I need to have it destroyed, but this is not something usually done.

How you doin?


----------



## zeusko87

V1bzz said:


> Today is kickstart day.
> 
> it's been 5 days ir so at 45mg nardil.
> 
> I am extremely hungover today so figured good time to fkuc myself up further and see if i can shock the nardil into working again.
> 
> my doses so far are...
> 120mg Nardil
> x9 piracetam 3600mg
> 2000mg agmatine
> 
> so far my hangover is much improved. expected to feel fkucked from the nardil but feeling ok so far. will prob be nap time shortly though lol


If you want to try most potent racetam you should get phenylpiracetam.

200 mg of phenylpiracetam with caffeine helps a lot with mood, motivation, energy.

btw, does Agmatine help at all?


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Thanks man! Naa i finally got around to fix the "legs" to that table, the IKEA thing i showed you a picture of... I hurt my back while doing so, i also had to clean that table before, it had my medical chart/journal on it, so i read some of it.
> It always puts me in a bad mood! I need to have it destroyed, but this is not something usually done.
> 
> How you doin?


did you manage to work out what the fluck that picture was about? confusing sh11t

yeah sometimes its not good to go back and see how you were. it can be a really negative thing. you got to try and always look forward man. 
I still get judged for things, mistakes i made 10 years ago when i was really sick with depression and drinking alot of alcohol. it really fcuks me off. people don't seem to give a fcuk that you were ill and just like to remind you of the bad times.
If i had a journal of the things i had done around that time i think it would destroy me mentally now and set me back really far.


----------



## V1bzz

zeusko87 said:


> If you want to try most potent racetam you should get phenylpiracetam.
> 
> 200 mg of phenylpiracetam with caffeine helps a lot with mood, motivation, energy.
> 
> btw, does Agmatine help at all?


Thanks. I will give that a google. funny thing is i find that nothing works on my fcuked up brain. I felt **** from modafinil and feel nothing from piracetam.

I haven't come across many in life that has as fcuked up a brain as me. it won't let anything work to help it.

the aggy isn't a really potent affect but it does help, it helps with my mood. for example I was really unwell and sick earlier from alcohol. usually it is the worst thing ever for me. i used to have severe anxiety and paranoia for about 6 days after drinking.
I wasn't capable of being online but the aggy just gave me something to be able to.
man 120mg is killing me from muscle fatigue, so damn painful, even just sittig here writing this the top of my right leg is burning from tiredness, as if i'm working it out.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> did you manage to work out what the fluck that picture was about? confusing sh11t
> 
> yeah sometimes its not good to go back and see how you were. it can be a really negative thing. you got to try and always look forward man.


Naa i just drilled it on... The picture was wrong! 

In my case some 2 years ago a Pdoc made a typo, so the chart/journal says i take some 250mg diazepam per day... Max dose is like 40mg.

So in my case this is effecting me and the care i get.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Naa i just drilled it on... The picture was wrong!
> 
> In my case some 2 years ago a Pdoc made a typo, so the chart/journal says i take some 250mg diazepam per day... Max dose is like 40mg.
> 
> So in my case this is effecting me and the care i get.


Christ, 250mg!
whats the highest dose you have done?

brilliant that the instructions were wrong. wtf! you could sue for that if you was in the US lol


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Christ, 250mg!
> whats the highest dose you have done?
> 
> brilliant that the instructions were wrong. wtf! you could sue for that if you was in the US lol


Yeah or that i tock BZ equivalent to that dose.
First she claims that i take a higher dose of Xanax then i do, and then she calculate it wrong.

So 8mg Xanax and 2mg flunitrazepam= 260mg diazepam....
1mg Xanax is equivalent to 10mg diazepam. 
(I have papers and even a recording of a meeting there i confront her about it, but i just don't have the energy to file a complaint)

I have no idea really on highest dose i tried, some 10years ago i was in a dark place, might have tried like a couple of pills just to sleep...

Yes the instructions was really bad. All i can think of is that it tries to show that i should first drill that plate to the underside of the table, before attaching the legs to them.
But hmm that was about 9-10 days ago that i talked with you about it. It feels like it haven taken abit to long time to actually get around and do it...:grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> It feels like it haven taken abit to long time to actually get around and do it...:grin2:


Yeah i know that feeling lol

I have been thinking today. I wonder if capping my pills with something like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alchemists-Apothecary-Empty-Gelatine-Capsules/dp/B007L3BR0Q/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1495448574&sr=8-5&keywords=empty+capsules would help me get a more effective dose of nardil by much more of it getting into my system.

Has anyone ever tried this?

@SFC01
@watertouch
@Gillman fan
@Captainmycaptain
@Sweeto
@zeusko87
@UltraShy
@rm123 @WillComp


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah i know that feeling lol
> 
> I have been thinking today. I wonder if capping my pills with something like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alchemists...qid=1495448574&sr=8-5&keywords=empty+capsules would help me get a more effective dose of nardil by much more of it getting into my system.
> 
> Has anyone ever tried this?


Only done this with non-legit powders !!

No idea if it will help tho - you gonna crush the nardil and put in ?


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Has anyone ever tried this?


LoL, Yes, i have that one!


----------



## watertouch

Its a video on youtube of how it works, but Naa maybe if you have alot of Powder.
search on youtube of : Capsule Machine for Making Herbal Capsules


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Only done this with non-legit powders !!
> 
> No idea if it will help tho - you gonna crush the nardil and put in ?


Maybe just force the flucker in there or cut it in half


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Its a video on youtube of how it works, but Naa maybe if you have alot of Powder.
> search on youtube of : Capsule Machine for Making Herbal Capsules


I think I will get some and give it a try. I could also buy some agmatine powder which is cheaper, stronger and will last much longer and chuck that in pills too.

I usually feel the effects of nardil about 45mins after taking. pretty quick. if i can double that time im pretty sure my system will get much more of active nardil in it?
Is that how it works. i'm not great at this kinda stuff.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I think I will get some and give it a try. I could also buy some agmatine powder which is cheaper, stronger and will last much longer and chuck that in pills too.
> 
> I usually feel the effects of nardil about 45mins after taking. pretty quick. if i can double that time im pretty sure my system will get much more of active nardil in it?
> Is that how it works. i'm not great at this kinda stuff.


user: Barry1685 had those thoughts to, he even tried piperine to increase absorption, but it didn't really work.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> user: Barry1685 had those thoughts to, he even tried piperine to increase absorption, but it didn't really work.


hmm bummer. I still have a chance to get nardil working though. my pharmacist told me all i have to do is get my doctor or whoever does rx repeats to put gavis nardil, pfizer nardil, just whatever, ad the chemist has to get me that brand of nardil. I am going to try next week and say the gavis brand is more effective for me and the archimedes gives me alot of side effects. Hopefully the way it is written they will assume i've had gavis before from the pharmacy and just write it on the rx.

Sounds simple enough if it wasnt for having the most useless doctor on this planet lol

Not 100% sure what is best, pfizer or gavis. i believe gavis is very quick effects. quicker than the hour or so it take archimedes to hit and pfizer is much slower to hit taking a few hrs. maybe i'll just see if i can get both to see what suits me better. like the sound of a slow acting nardil. should have a nice buzz from the dopamine for half a day i reckon.

The game is not over yet for me, it is supposed to be a game of 2 halves but im finding ways to keep the flucker going, were in the 4th quarter and i will will it go to the 10th quarter if i can keep coming up with ideas lol
I'm so tired of anxiety that i'm fighting now i have the best medicine to get it beat! the most i have ever given a med is 4 months. i truly believe nardil has to be the one and will keep working with it until it helps me live instead of survive.

drops the mic and walks off stage :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

Did the word 'Nardil' just go red or am i just tripping out that i havent noticed before. (ok its gone now)

@SFC01 
@watertouch 
@Sweeto 
@zeusko87 
@rm123 
@WillComp

Any of you guys get swollen feet and ankles? my feet are fat person feet now and are actually starting to get really painful!

it's one thing after another with me and nardil isn't it? 

seriously, i have had every fcuking side effect going. i was just looking through a list of nardil side effects going 'yep' 'yep' 'yep'


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Did the word 'Nardil' just go red or am i just tripping out that i havent noticed before. (ok its gone now)
> 
> @*SFC01*
> @*watertouch*
> @*Sweeto*
> @*zeusko87*
> @*rm123*
> @*WillComp*
> 
> Any of you guys get swollen feet and ankles? my feet are fat person feet now and are actually starting to get really painful!
> 
> it's one thing after another with me and nardil isn't it?
> 
> seriously, i have had every fcuking side effect going. i was just looking through a list of nardil side effects going 'yep' 'yep' 'yep'


Yeah it's one thing after another for me too. :x

Haven't gotten the swollen feet and ankles yet, although I've gained 8 pounds since I started Nardil. For me, that's a good thing. I was a bit skinny, now I'm filling out and lookin sexier. :laugh:

Hey man, I meant to ask earlier, how did the party go the other night? Do you think the Nardil had any effect? By the way, where do you get your smilies - I want some of those!!


----------



## WillComp

Quick update on my Nardil journey:

I've been on 60mg since May 1st. I feel it's working but a bit inconsistent. Over the weekend I had to go to the movies, it was a full theater and had to sit in the middle of a row. I was a little disappointed because I felt more uncomfortable than I have in a long time. I didn't know where to put my hands, and I didn't have the guts to talk to the person next to me. It felt like Nardil wasn't working at all. 

The weirdest thing happened this morning. I woke up, sat up on the side of my bed for a few seconds as usual, then stood up and got that terrible ringing and deafening sound of rushing wind in my ears. Then I noticed I couldn't see at all. There was a blinding white light, almost complete loss of vision. So I walked to the bathroom, didn't feel dizzy at all. I looked in the mirror and couldn't even see myself. Just a huge white spot in front of my eyes everywhere I looked. I managed to get ready for work and slowly went away after 15 minutes. :wtfWAS THAT? It's one thing after another.. LOL.. I'm beginning to think this Schits poison! 

Then at work I couldn't keep my eyes open. Fortunately I have my own office, I closed my door and turned on the alarm on my phone for 10 minutes. The next thing I know after I put my head on my desk is the music on my alarm was waking me up. Needless to say I didn't get anything done today. 

I did have a bright spot during the day. I decided to test out Nardil at lunch. I went to this place for lunch that spooks me out. You have to stand in line and order from this intimidating loud jokester type guy in front of everyone. For some reason this place gives me the jeebies and the last time I went there I had the worst SA. Today I felt as comfortable as you could get. No SA at all and I even chatted comfortably with the loud mouth and laughed at his jokes as if nothing was wrong with me. 

Incidentally I ordered some'n I shouldn't have.. rice with shrimp and sweet ginger teriyaki sauce. When the lady brought it to my table, I asked if the sauce had any soy sauce in it and she said yes. I was still relaxed and said I was allergic to soy sauce. She kindly took it away and brought back another dish with Chipotle sauce. The entire time I couldn't have been more relaxed and people at other tables were looking at me.. but as if nothing was wrong with me. It was great! So I guess sometimes Nardil works and sometimes it doesn't.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Yeah it's one thing after another for me too. :x
> 
> Haven't gotten the swollen feet and ankles yet, although I've gained 8 pounds since I started Nardil. For me, that's a good thing. I was a bit skinny, now I'm filling out and lookin sexier. :laugh:
> 
> Hey man, how did the party go the other night? Do you think the Nardil had any effect?


Yeah I was 10 stone before i started ssri's. I held at about 12 stone until nardil, now im 13.7 now. possibly higher. If i can get rid of the stomach and tone up abit the new fat I will enjoy this weight.

No the nardil had zero effect on my anxiety at the party. I was a mess. for the first hour i couldnt make a roll up because my hands were shaking so bad. I wasn't drinking either until the evening and it was hard man. I didn't want to drink but a nice girl turned up and i wanted to be relaxed enough to at least talk to her without sounding like an idiot because i cant think straight and speak in my normal voice.

I haven't given up yet though. maybe it will just kick in again.


----------



## WillComp

Ah man, that sucks, sorry to hear. That's a bummer. I think it just takes some ppl longer than others to kick in. Once it kicks in, you'll know it!! Only a matter of time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Quick update on my Nardil journey:
> 
> I've been on 60mg since May 1st. I feel it's working but a bit inconsistent. Over the weekend I had to go to the movies, it was a full theater and had to sit in the middle of a row. I was a little disappointed because I felt more uncomfortable than I have in a long time. I didn't know where to put my hands, and I didn't have the guts to talk to the person next to me. It felt like Nardil wasn't working at all.
> 
> The weirdest thing happened this morning. I woke up, sat up on the side of my bed for a few seconds as usual, then stood up and got that terrible ringing and deafening sound of rushing wind in my ears. Then I noticed I couldn't see at all. There was a blinding white light, almost complete loss of vision. So I walked to the bathroom, didn't feel dizzy at all. I looked in the mirror and couldn't even see myself. Just a huge white spot in front of my eyes everywhere I looked. I managed to get ready for work and slowly went away after 15 minutes. :wtfWAS THAT? It's one thing after another.. LOL.. I'm beginning to think this Schits poison!
> 
> Then at work I couldn't keep my eyes open. Fortunately I have my own office, I closed my door and turned on the alarm on my phone for 10 minutes. The next thing I know after I put my head on my desk is the music on my alarm was waking me up. Needless to say I didn't get anything done today.
> 
> I did have a bright spot during the day. I decided to test out Nardil at lunch. I went to this place for lunch that spooks me out. You have to stand in line and order from this intimidating loud jokester type guy in front of everyone. For some reason this place gives me the jeebies and the last time I went there I had the worst SA. Today I felt as comfortable as you could get. No SA at all and I even chatted comfortably with the loud mouth and laughed at his jokes as if nothing was wrong with me.
> 
> Incidentally I ordered some'n I shouldn't have.. rice with shrimp and sweet ginger teriyaki sauce. When the lady brought it to my table, I asked if the sauce had any soy sauce in it and she said yes. I was still relaxed and said I was allergic to soy sauce. She kindly took it away and brought back another dish with Chipotle sauce. The entire time I couldn't have been more relaxed and people at other tables were looking at me.. but as if nothing was wrong with me. It was great! So I guess sometimes Nardil works and sometimes it doesn't.


This is great, hopefully it will kick in fully for you soon. Yeah there was that sort of cocky ahole at the party, the sort of person you try to avoid if you have anxiety because you know he will try and make you look like a **** even though he doesn't know you, just because he thinks he's so awesome. Hate scum bags like that. They think they are funny trying to make others look stupid but everyone just thinks they are a rude dickhead. Back in the day I would have just punched him and threw him out of the party. I hate how anxiety makes me feel like a coward because I don't know how to act in certain situations anymore.

Good for you though man. hope it continues for you. Just to have felt like a normal human being must have been so nice! :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

Put in a new prescription today asking for Gavis Nardil (Phenelzine) to be written on the prescription.
Wish me luck as it seems my doctor is incapable of doing even the simplist of tasks.


----------



## Iza707

I also get the swollen ankles and feet. It's from poor circulation and pretty much edema. I notice it more the higher I go up in dose. It helps to reduce sodium intake and drink more water. Exercise helps improve circulation and try to avoid standing on your feet for too long.


----------



## V1bzz

Iza707 said:


> I also get the swollen ankles and feet. It's from poor circulation and pretty much edema. I notice it more the higher I go up in dose. It helps to reduce sodium intake and drink more water. Exercise helps improve circulation and try to avoid standing on your feet for too long.


Yeah I had a party on saturday and was on my feet more that usual. my feet are like hippo feet since lol.
I cross my legs alot and earlier when i uncrossed them i had a big *** indentation on my leg for about haf an hour. it went in about an inch.
I've dropped to 45mg and maybe going to 30 so hopefully that helps. Dont know about yours but mine bloody hurts!
Really need to do more exercise to get rid of this pot belly but its bloody hard with muscle fatigue and hippo feet


----------



## V1bzz

Morning all...

It's too early to say for sure but my kickstart tactics way have worked. It's like i'm starting to go through the early side effects of Nardil again.
I'm back to not wanting to go to bed (went to sleep about 1am i think) and waking up millions of times wondering if it's time to get up yet (Been awake since 4am).
Also had hypotension during the night like back in the day.

The annoying thing about the few hours sleep i did get last night was that any slight noise startled me awake, jumping out of my friggin skin man lol

Could it be that different doses have different side effects? i just always thought it was a progression of side effects until you were adapted to the drug?
Could it be that I overloaded my brain at 75 and 90mg and it just stopped working? Now I am lower it's kicking in again as if I have just started at 45mg?
Kinda feels like it to me, I guess we will see how things go over the next couple of weeks.

Hopefully i'm right and i've managed to kick start this thing again. I had a weird hopeful feeling when i got up about being able to get rid of this pot belly lol. very random.

I've been @ 45mg for 1 week so far


----------



## rm123

V1bzz said:


> Morning all...
> 
> It's too early to say for sure but my kickstart tactics way have worked. It's like i'm starting to go through the early side effects of Nardil again.
> I'm back to not wanting to go to bed (went to sleep about 1am i think) and waking up millions of times wondering if it's time to get up yet (Been awake since 4am).
> Also had hypotension during the night like back in the day.
> 
> The annoying thing about the few hours sleep i did get last night was that any slight noise startled me awake, jumping out of my friggin skin man lol
> 
> Could it be that different doses have different side effects? i just always thought it was a progression of side effects until you were adapted to the drug?
> Could it be that I overloaded my brain at 75 and 90mg and it just stopped working? Now I am lower it's kicking in again as if I have just started at 45mg?
> Kinda feels like it to me, I guess we will see how things go over the next couple of weeks.
> 
> Hopefully i'm right and i've managed to kick start this thing again. I had a weird hopeful feeling when i got up about being able to get rid of this pot belly lol. very random.
> 
> I've been @ 45mg for 1 week so far


Honestly, I've been on Nardil a year + 1 month now, and I've gone through periods like you've described - where it feels as though I'm going through withdrawals. But they always pass eventually. Maybe this is just a normal part of being on Nardil?? It's been a while since I've felt that way and - happily - much of the side effects for me have eased off now too. Just a thought.


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Honestly, I've been on Nardil a year + 1 month now, and I've gone through periods like you've described - where it feels as though I'm going through withdrawals. But they always pass eventually. Maybe this is just a normal part of being on Nardil?? It's been a while since I've felt that way and - happily - much of the side effects for me have eased off now too. Just a thought.


I'm getting withdrawal headshocks since last night and all day today. not very nice. i was on 75mg and am now on 45mg.

don't forget it's not working for me yet. how long did it take to get going for you?
You may have told me already, my brain is just fried!


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I'm getting withdrawal headshocks since last night and all day today. not very nice. i was on 75mg and am now on 45mg.
> 
> don't forget it's not working for me yet. how long did it take to get going for you?
> You may have told me already, my brain is just fried!


If I were you, I'd stay on 45 for 1 more week, then go up to 60 and stay there for 1-2 months. I've read so many posts that say 60 is the golden dose. I think after a while, once side effects ease off a bit, then you can go up to 75 if you feel the positive effects are too inconsistent.

I didn't feel much at 45 either. At 60, I started feeling it work, although it was subtle. I don't remember exactly when it kicked in, I just realized I've had very few days of SA and it wasn't even that bad. Before Nardil, almost every day was excruciating. Today I'm relaxed as could be, it's like that thick blood throughout my body that always made me sick and the internal earthquakes have gone away, and I'm on a relaxing vacation on a secluded island by myself. Yet I'm actually at work and just had a normal chat with my office neighbor. Soon they'll wonder what's up, why I don't look so nervous all the time anymore. :laugh: Hope you get to experience this soon. It's Nardil heaven! :grin2:

By the way, V1, where do you get your smilies? I want some of those!

Gotta get back to work - I'm swamped here today and probably won't get to check in till tomorrow or later this week. :crying:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> If I were you, I'd stay on 45 for 1 more week, then go up to 60 and stay there for 1-2 months. I've read so many posts that say 60 is the golden dose. I think after a while, once side effects ease off a bit, then you can go up to 75 if you feel the positive effects are too inconsistent.
> 
> I didn't feel much at 45 either. At 60, I started feeling it work, although it was subtle. I don't remember exactly when it kicked in, I just realized I've had very few days of SA and it wasn't even that bad. Before Nardil, almost every day was excruciating. Today I'm relaxed as could be, it's like that thick blood throughout my body that always made me sick and the internal earthquakes have gone away, and I'm on a relaxing vacation on a secluded island by myself. Yet I'm actually at work and just had a normal chat with my office neighbor. Soon they'll wonder what's up, why I don't look so nervous all the time anymore. :laugh: Hope you get to experience this soon. It's Nardil heaven! :grin2:
> 
> By the way, V1, where do you get your smilies? I want some of those!
> 
> Gotta get back to work - I'm swamped here today and probably won't get to check in till tomorrow or later this week. :crying:


Here we go mate http://www.sherv.net/rolling.floor.laughing-emoticon-3073.html I do love a good emiticon :grin2:

Sounds really great how you are feeling. I will give it a go mate. Will stay on 45 for another week or until the headshocks go (so i know higher dose is out of system) then go up again.
Hopefully I will have a gavis prescription waiting for me tomorrow. I will replace 1 archi while at 45 then 2 of each at 60mg. I will be patient this time and just wait it out. Think I was only at 60 for 3 weeks (if that) before I hit 75. Then I was even more impatient and started to dose 90 every few days to eventually doing more 90 than 75. Thats when it stopped working altogether actually. Maybe it was just too much, that plus modafinil and agmatine. I prob just overloaded my brain.

Hopefully this time it will work


----------



## Gillman fan

All this Nardil lore really belongs in the FAQ, e.g. drop down the dose, sit there, raise it again etc. 

Going too high on dosage? My 150 mg of Parnate laughs at that!


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto

I don't wanna rub it in (pun intended) but for the last couple of days my libido is super high and I have been able to orgasm   You gotta put a few hours in (TMI LOL) and its hard going but woohooo 

I'm glad this is an open minded forum


----------



## UltraShy

V1bzz said:


> Yeah i know that feeling lol
> 
> I have been thinking today. I wonder if capping my pills with something like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alchemists-Apothecary-Empty-Gelatine-Capsules/dp/B007L3BR0Q/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1495448574&sr=8-5&keywords=empty+capsules would help me get a more effective dose of nardil by much more of it getting into my system.
> 
> Has anyone ever tried this?
> 
> @SFC01
> @watertouch
> @Gillman fan
> @Captainmycaptain
> @Sweeto
> @zeusko87
> @UltraShy
> @rm123 @WillComp


Guess I should reply, since I am mentioned.

So you'd crush your Nardil to dust and then put it in these gelatin capsules to get more of it into your bloodstream, hopefully?

I doubt it makes any difference. I'm not aware of pooping out undigested Nardil tablets, though I must admit I don't do an examination of my excrement in search of undigested Nardil.


----------



## V1bzz

So I had this emoticon ready to go in this post before I headed off to get my prescription for *GAVIS* Nardil









For an hour or so I was abit like that, went through the usual drama of nightmares every time I need my doctor to do anything.
She even ****s up taking my BP for crying out loud, last time she done it she thought i was having a hypertensive crisis, even though I knew it was super bloody low.
Even managed to see in passing anormal doctor who i know actually is capable of doing doctor stuff, spoke to her on the sly and said i want her to be my doc cos im tired of this sh11t with my prescriptions. She was cool and said i will give you a call about it. She will too, unlike the other incompetent one. Ok enough blasting of my doctor.

So my prescription is done, i say about it needs to say the brand gavis. receptionist then says ok take a seat, i need to speak with the doc. an hour or so later I finally have the rx in hand with that special word on it *GAVIS*.

wooooohooooo thank fluck for that. New prescription, new doctor sorted. Lots of weight lifting from my shoulders. I literally felt like i was either going to cry or explode with anger just before i walked in the docs. She is such a nightmare and i have so much trouble getting anything done.

So relieved right now. I should have my gavis in hand tomorrow or saturday barring no unforseen problems!! 

Oh my BP is now *116/74*


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz - cool mate, glad the doc came through and hopefully the change of brand may give it the kick you need !


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz - cool mate, glad the doc came through and hopefully the change of brand may give it the kick you need !


Thanks mate, yes, i've got another life line now


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto

Wondering if I should change my forum name to Sir Cums Alot 



Least we all know how to do it now if the frustration becomes too much and we need some relief. Just drop to 45mg for 7 days. For me it was a couple of days after the headshocks started. It's intense chit man, seriously, I think I nearly passed out lmfao. I could hardly walk after, the headshocks increase in severity 1000 fold!
To be honest now though im sick of having labido like I am a teenager again (maybe worse). I think about sex 21hrs a day, the rest is sleeping and begins again once awake. All friggin day. It's too much after a few days. Lucky or possibly unlucky i'm single, my GF would be loving it or walking about like a cowboy after riding the biggest baddest bull in town.

Next time I will drop to 30 for 4 days and see if that works.


----------



## V1bzz

So, on wednesday night I had about 3hrs sleep, Thursday night about the same.
Last night I just never really thought about going to bed so just stayed up all night.
Feel pretty good actually apart from sometimes taking me a while to focus.
Thankfully i'm not around women as i don't think the slightly boss eyed look works for me


----------



## Sweeto

Is it necessary to wait 14 days before starting another serotonin drug?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Is it necessary to wait 14 days before starting another serotonin drug?


Yes mate. wtf has happened???? your not coming off nardil are you????


----------



## V1bzz

(this forum is driving me nuts today. simple quick post has taken me bloody ages lol)


Hey guys, sorry I haven't updated in a while. Had to make a few changes because I felt like crap and back to normal.

I decided to drop my dose from 75mg 3 days a week and 90mg 4 days a week to 45mg. Everything felt like it was going wrong for me on my treatment from Nardil. I will post a little update below.

I was flucked yesterday. I kinda went on a mission and today i'm asking myself why. it's very odd behaviour lol.

I had 3 hrs sleep wednesday, same thursday, done an allnighter friday and was tired all day but then decided to do another allnighter. By the time it was about 11am Sunday I was flucked. slept until 5pm then stayed up till 1am and got up at 7. I feel totally fine today.

Just thinking to myself what the whole point was and i'm not really sure haha.

I think nardil maybe kicking in. not 100 sure yet but my piss is super dark and stinks of nardil. it was dark last time but not this dark and it didnt smell. 
I'm feeling pretty calm and noticed tody while smoking at the window that i had forgot to be paranoid about people looking at me until thinking about it after.
Good signs I think so far. Little to no side effects this time that i can think of. The ole anorgasmia is back damn it. 
no hypotension. felt abit hypo when i first woke up. very mild but none since. I think once i can get rid of these swollen old man legs I will feel much better.

It's only 3rd day back at 60 since dropping to 45mg 10 days ago but it took the head shocks away. Libido is settling down too which is nice. Just don't want to lose it altogether. It was just too much at 45. I think any lower and i might explode. fluck knows whats going to happen if I come off Nardil. Has it flucked my libido for good or is it part of withdrawal???

My appetite isn't like it was before. pot belly is softening i believe and i have lost 2 pounds. Taking Fat metaboliser though by protein world and stopped caining loads of cookies and stuff like that. Man I love cookies lol. 
Also stopped drinking pepsi cos it was bad for the ole pot belly. Thought i would give coke a go and it's kinda perfect because it goes flat quickly. no gas = no adding to bloated pot belly.

Sh11t feels like its coming together. hopefully now i don't have extreme side effects i will be able to feel changes from nardil. we will see.
Defo feel better than I did couple of weeks ago thats for sure. The new dosing plan is working good too i think. 2 in morning after breakfast then two at about lunch time. I don't even feel like i'm on anything any more.

Big difference from the 5 i used to take in one go at 7am. This feels like a completely different nardil journey to the last one 

How is everyone else going?


----------



## WillComp

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


dude your post didnt come through. this forum has issues right now!!


----------



## Sweeto

Yes, I couldn't handle side effects and it did help my SA not so much. But for depression and energy it's the best med I've ever taken.

What about you?

Btw I'll probably try testosterone therapy soon



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it necessary to wait 14 days before starting another serotonin drug?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes mate. wtf has happened???? your not coming off nardil are you????
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Yes, I couldn't handle side effects and it did help my SA not so much. But for depression and energy it's the best med I've ever taken.
> 
> What about you?
> 
> Btw I'll probably try testosterone therapy soon


Dude pls don't give up. do what i did and drop to 45, let the sides fluck off then go up again. I'm feeling really good man and guess what... *TODAY I CAN FEEL THE NARDIL THIS TIME!!!!*

Don't do it to yourself, if I can get to where I am today, you can too!!! Don't give up on yourself! 

Look how miserable I was 2 weeks ago. Now the only side effects I have are swollen feet and ankles. Yeah this is coming from the guy that had every side effect listed! and that is an understatement. I went through the whole list of listed side effects and i had 95+%

I don't even have that disabling fatigue anymore. I don't feel tired through the day. My energy levels are really good. I feel like a different person on the nardil now to how i was a few days ago.

please trust me, we can get it all under control with abit of work. at least try what i did and if it doesnt help then you can move on from it.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> . *TODAY I CAN FEEL THE NARDIL THIS TIME!!!!*


about ****ing time nardil !!!


----------



## Sweeto

I'm happy for you! Keep going! ? Has your SA been diminished or you are just feeling great?

I don't take Nardil 13 days so I think I would have to start again from the beginning... All side effects were disappeared? fortunately...


----------



## SFC01

@Sweeto, how compatible is testosterone therapy with nardil, is it contraindicated?

Nardil for depression and Test for SA ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> about ****ing time nardil !!!




Me today -   

I know summin is going on because i only went and downloaded that fitness thing on xbox one lol


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I know summin is going on because i only went and downloaded that fitness thing on xbox one lol


ah that will be the motivation kicking in !!


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I'm happy for you! Keep going! ? Has your SA been diminished or you are just feeling great?
> 
> I don't take Nardil 13 days so I think I would have to start again from the beginning... All side effects were disappeared? fortunately...


Do it mate. I take 2 after breakfast then 2 at lunch time. pls also get agmatine. It could be the key. I take 1 650mg with morning and afternoon nardil dose.

I feel good today man. I found this info out when it was too late but I picked my parents up from seeing this band and was told about some old family friends being there. First thought was being gutted cos if i knew i would have got ready and went down to see them!! :O that just aint me mate.

I have a really nice body high right now, its calming and feels like the universe is giving me a soothing hug. I'm wondering if i'm on my way to that hypermania everyone seems to get as nardil kicks in. I had nothing like that last time. In fact, how i feel today, i've had nothing like that either. it's hard to describe. it's just niceness. 

Did you get the head shocks during withdraw? thats the only thing i got, was intense at times but nothing like how i used to feel 24hrs a day. all my body turned to normal in that time, all the sides went best was being able to orgasm, i could feel myself getting closer each day lol (yeah i was testing lol).

It's all very strange and doesnt make sense to me, how it can make me feel so bad and ill and not work to then me starting again and it working. mm i just had some nice arm rushes then 

Only troubles i have now is pain in my legs. but that eased also. A new thing i have which is difficult to explain is, let me give you an example. it was raining here bad earlier and a dropped my parents off to the band. on the way there were 3 young lads wanting to get soaked from the puddles. so i thought right i'll get em on the way back. I did so, soaked em good lol :grin2: but sometimes just randomly and only for maybe a second or less i get like a massive shock go through my head. it's very hard to explain. not brain zaps. just intense quick sudden shock like bam, i don't know man but i swear my brain just stops in that time then comes back. like brain blacking out. its weird. i'm not troubled by it yet its just abit wtf'ish.

Get some agmatine, pills if you can, if not grab some power. its purer anyway. you may need to buy some capsules to put it in so you can swollow. you can also just put it under the tongue until it disolves. increased the severity of my head shocks though when i did that so have gone back to pill form.

man im rambling, did i even answer your question? lmfao >


----------



## SFC01

the post above @V1bzz, is evidence nardil is working


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> ah that will be the motivation kicking in !!


This is unbelievable and i'm so confused. I feel really good today. I can't wait for it to keep getting more and more. I will finally find that nardil heaven. if its more than how i'm feeling tody life is gunna be so fookin good!!

just can't believe it. I felt it a little earlier about munch time and has just got stronger as the day has gone on.

I can imagine you appreciate that i'm scared to what i'm going to feel tomorrow. Remember i had the one good day? nothing like this by the way but next day it was back to nothing! if i feel like this tomorrow :grin2::grin2:
did i say i feel fookin great right now :grin2:

This is surely the agmatine working with the nardil. wonder if the sleep deprivation helped. sure someone said to try that. this certainly is one weird ole drug aint it?
@Sweeto, I would say you are in the perfect position to get it going again side effect free. do it man. don't give up yet please!


----------



## Sweeto

It should be ok, but no one knows, you know...



SFC01 said:


> @Sweeto, how compatible is testosterone therapy with nardil, is it contraindicated?
> 
> Nardil for depression and Test for SA ?


----------



## Sweeto

Thanks for support, I will think about it...

What's your current dose?



V1bzz said:


> SFC01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah that will be the motivation kicking in !!
> 
> 
> 
> This is unbelievable and i'm so confused. I feel really good today. I can't wait for it to keep getting more and more. I will finally find that nardil heaven. if its more than how i'm feeling tody life is gunna be so fookin good!!
> 
> just can't believe it. I felt it a little earlier about munch time and has just got stronger as the day has gone on.
> 
> I can imagine you appreciate that i'm scared to what i'm going to feel tomorrow. Remember i had the one good day? nothing like this by the way but next day it was back to nothing! if i feel like this tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did i say i feel fookin great right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is surely the agmatine working with the nardil. wonder if the sleep deprivation helped. sure someone said to try that. this certainly is one weird ole drug aint it?
> 
> @Sweeto, I would say you are in the perfect position to get it going again side effect free. do it man. don't give up yet please!
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

V1bzz said:


> I felt it a little earlier about munch time


----------



## WillComp

I'm so stoked for you V1. It sounds like it's finally kicking in. That's so awesome. I started 60 on May 1st and have definitely felt it working the last few wks. Your experience today is similar to most days for me. I get that nice calm tingly feeling throughout my body almost like the universe is giving me a giant comforting hug. Feels euphoric. 

I'm still dealing w/ horrendous sides though. I think I'm a couple wks behind V1 and others on here so hopefully the fact that your sides are easing up now means mine will too in a couple wks. 

Still got constipation, urinary retention (more severe than urinary hesitation -- haven't pissed once today) and the damn sexual sides. Haven't orgasmed in almost 4 wks, and have been trying relentlessly. Talk about fluckin with ur head. I've come to the conclusion I'm 100% incapable now, and won't even try for another month or so. I'm not gonna reduce the dosage though. I'm gonna wait it out till Aug 1st and if sexual sides are still a problem I'll reduce to 45 for 1-2 wks. Hopefully that'll do the trick! 

The worst side is the hypo which is at its worst yet. This morning I passes out twice in the bathroom. The 2nd time happened about 2 min later while I was sitting down. I starting shaking uncontrollably, swaying back and forth and side to side like I was actually having a seizure, and the next thing I know.. Bang! I hit my head really hard against the wall, hurt like hell, and now I have a big bump on the side of my head. I had no control over my movements, it was like I was blacking out and was unable to move my hands to protect my head. Scary schit.

Weird thing was I wasn't troubled over the whole deal, just a little pissed at myself, then quickly got up and had no trouble walking back to my room. 

Two hrs later I had to go to a memorial day party with the fam and all their friends. I normally dread these parties but today was kinda fun, except for the fact I made an @$$ outta myself and regret saying some stupid stuff. I hate embarrassing myself and getting that wtf look.

Oh well, I should expect to come across like a clown now that I'm talking more, just because I'm so damn inexperienced. Overall it was a flucked up day, but as usual I'm feeling nice and lovely atm.

Sweeto- don't give up man. I think if u can tough out the sides this calmness and tremendous reduction in SA is so f'in worth it. Just get back on it and go slow. Don't go above 60, stay at 60 for a while and in the future if u think it'll be beneficial to increase to 75, go for it. Otherwise many ppl stay at 60, feel full benefits and claim that 60 is the golden dose that works best.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Thanks for support, I will think about it...
> 
> What's your current dose?


I'm on my 4th day at 60mg. if you hurry up we can do it together again lol :kiss:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I'm so stoked for you V1. It sounds like it's finally kicking in. That's so awesome. I started 60 on May 1st and have definitely felt it working the last few wks. Your experience today is similar to most days for me. I get that nice calm tingly feeling throughout my body almost like the universe is giving me a giant comforting hug. Feels euphoric.
> 
> I'm still dealing w/ horrendous sides though. I think I'm a couple wks behind V1 and others on here so hopefully the fact that your sides are easing up now means mine will too in a couple wks.
> 
> Still got constipation, urinary retention (more severe than urinary hesitation -- haven't pissed once today) and the damn sexual sides. Haven't orgasmed in almost 4 wks, and have been trying relentlessly. Talk about fluckin with ur head. I've come to the conclusion I'm 100% incapable now, and won't even try for another month or so. I'm not gonna reduce the dosage though. I'm gonna wait it out till Aug 1st and if sexual sides are still a problem I'll reduce to 45 for 1-2 wks. Hopefully that'll do the trick!
> 
> The worst side is the hypo which is at its worst yet. This morning I passes out twice in the bathroom. The 2nd time happened about 2 min later while I was sitting down. I starting shaking uncontrollably, swaying back and forth and side to side like I was actually having a seizure, and the next thing I know.. Bang! I hit my head really hard against the wall, hurt like hell, and now I have a big bump on the side of my head. I had no control over my movements, it was like I was blacking out and was unable to move my hands to protect my head. Scary schit.
> 
> Weird thing was I wasn't troubled over the whole deal, just a little pissed at myself, then quickly got up and had no trouble walking back to my room.
> 
> Two hrs later I had to go to a memorial day party with the fam and all their friends. I normally dread these parties but today was kinda fun, except for the fact I made an @$$ outta myself and regret saying some stupid stuff. I hate embarrassing myself and getting that wtf look.
> 
> Oh well, I should expect to come across like a clown now that I'm talking more, just because I'm so damn inexperienced. Overall it was a flucked up day, but as usual I'm feeling nice and lovely atm.
> 
> Sweeto- don't give up man. I think if u can tough out the sides this calmness and tremendous reduction in SA is so f'in worth it. Just get back on it and go slow. Don't go above 60, stay at 60 for a while and in the future if u think it'll be beneficial to increase to 75, go for it. Otherwise many ppl stay at 60, feel full benefits and claim that 60 is the golden dose that works best.


Ah mate chuffed for you. dang that hypo sounds worse than mine. I never passed out. came very very damn close lots of times though. I don't know if this will help you but when i had the massive hypo where i couldn't walk I found closing my eyes helped massively, especially during the worst ones, oh and sit the fluck down as quickly as possible or go into squat position, i found that helped alot, just get my head down man asap.

Just know that **** will pass. it had stopped for me even at 75/90 dosing. I think dropping down was the best thing i ever did. I think 45mg is the place to be for getting libido back and being able to orgasm, its still touch though. Next time I need relief i'm going to drop to 30mg hopefully for 3 or 4 days. have some fun then go back up again lol. If I remember right @Captainmycaptain used to pass out alot too.

Great you are being more social.

I'm looking forward to taking my first dose today. I remember reading peoples posts about feeling great shortly after taking nardil and feeling ready to go bla bla for the day. I used to think wtf is wrong with me then, it makes me feel really ill for the whole day.

Yesterday I knew what they were on about, first time ever, excited to see what today brings :grin2:

whats your bp at now?
@Sweeto, don't think. *DO!!* >:nerd:0


----------



## V1bzz

Man I feel great again today, I have soooo much motivation back for my music. First time in a long time i've been dancing round the house like a maniac to my own music 

I got a feeling the mania **** on onsetting. so much fookin energy today. I was dancing and my tits were bouncing all over the place.

This was me  but in my head I was rockin out like this mo fo


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Man I feel great again today, I have soooo much motivation back for my music. First time in a long time i've been dancing round the house like a maniac to my own music


So what are you saying, the nardil dance team is back on again for your next video ? I`ll have to work harder at toning the moobs !!

Glad its seems to be kicking in proper this time, good stuff :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> So what are you saying, the nardil dance team is back on again for your next video ? I`ll have to work harder at toning the moobs !!
> 
> Glad its seems to be kicking in proper this time, good stuff :grin2:


No way man, it's all about the moobs!

I feel good again today, now me being me im hoping its not that mania sh11t and im gunna go flat again.
Think i've surely been on nardil too long for manai. for crying out loud ive been on so long the sides have even got bored and decided to fook off. :grin2:

I guess 3 months of hell was all the punishment i needed for busting up my brain as badly as I did. :nerd:

I feel abit frisky today, like, I feel like i wanna just go and chat up some nice looking lady. wtf man!! :O

P.s have lost a belt size in weight. pot belly isn't looking so outragious! :grin2:

All my life my fam used to take the piss out of my legs for being skinny. at one point my calves were bigger than the quads lmfao. aways had good calves though lol. Now i get called mr blobby ffs, just can't win sometimes haha.
The other week i caught a glimpse of my thighs in the shower and was shocked. they are beasts!! (not muscle though lol)


----------



## WillComp

SFC01 said:


> So what are you saying, the nardil dance team is back on again for your next video ? I`ll have to work harder at toning the moobs !!
> 
> Glad its seems to be kicking in proper this time, good stuff :grin2:


Hey I'm in. It's ok to drink a couple beers with Nardil, right?


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Ah mate chuffed for you.
> 
> whats your bp at now?


Thanks man! I'm feeling good again today. Just got to work and feeling calm and motivated and in a great mood, and most importantly feeling a noticeable reduction in SA. This is despite not being able to urinate this morning.. thankfully was able to last night. It seems like I can only go once a day and constantly feel like I have to go. I hope it doesn't get much worse and hope I don't have to take drastic measures (go back to the hospital) to get rid of this side. Hope it just goes away on its own. Fortunately didn't experience hypo this morning.. closed my eyes as I was getting out of bed. 

I'm not sure what my bp is now. I don't have a personal bp monitor, last time it was checked was on May 1st and it was really high. Now it's obviously too low. I'm not concerned about it though. I'll get through June and July just fine.. sides will pass.. and August will be a blast!


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> It's ok to drink a couple beers with Nardil, right?


Yes, how do you think I got my moobs :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Thanks man! I'm feeling good again today. Just got to work and feeling calm and motivated and in a great mood, and most importantly feeling a noticeable reduction in SA. This is despite not being able to urinate this morning.. thankfully was able to last night. It seems like I can only go once a day and constantly feel like I have to go. I hope it doesn't get much worse and hope I don't have to take drastic measures (go back to the hospital) to get rid of this side. Hope it just goes away on its own. Fortunately didn't experience hypo this morning.. closed my eyes as I was getting out of bed.
> 
> I'm not sure what my bp is now. I don't have a personal bp monitor, last time it was checked was on May 1st and it was really high. Now it's obviously too low. I'm not concerned about it though. I'll get through June and July just fine.. sides will pass.. and August will be a blast!


Closing the eyes works don't it :grin2:

dude that water retention is nasty, i had it too until i dopped to 45mg. still going ok at the moment. I feel really good today, just at peace and it feels just so awesome. I have mild euphoria in my body, tingling in the tips of my fingers as I type this. I feel like i'm walking around with a big fook off smile and keep giggling at sh11t. I feel eotional writing that because it has been so long that I have felt this much peace, about 15yrs of thinking complete strangers were laughing at me and talking about me, looking at me, looking down on me as if i was a piece of sh11t.
I really like this, I just hope it stays for a while. It cn only get better I think, Nardil seems to be working now like it was supposed to first time. just under 2 weeks to feel nice from 45mg. 4 days so far on 60mg so have got that look forward to in a week or two.

I still can't wrap my head around it all. I have been on nardil for close to 3 months (or longer), i've lost track and it was just hell, with no relief for depression or anxiety. Can you guys remember me always saying that shouldnt i at least be feeling some anti depressive effects? I was literally feeling nothing. Something simple like just dropping down, withdrawing and starting again and its kicked in so damn quick. I feel so happy right now.

I hope people are reading this now long *** thread and are seeing that anyone can make this work if they just fight to get there and not give up on it. I just knew in my head that I had to stick it out, like you guys and here we are.

We just need to get @Sweeto to get back on it and see if he has as much luck as i am having. come on mate. If I can get here, anyone can. don't give up on Nardil!!


----------



## Sweeto

So I'm starting Nardil again after 2 weeks break. What dose should I take? Will Nardil effects take a few months to kick in?


----------



## Xtcismygo2

So update for me since I've recently started nardil 4 weeks ago. Im at 45 mg with modest improvements in social anxiety and depression. Klonopin is still king imo with regards to social anxiety. I'm only able to take that twice a week though before I develop a tolerance. In other words I need something more consistent. I will probably take klonopin for as long as I work because work is what stresses me out. moobs are getting trendy. They should sell bras for guys now since estrogen is basically in all the milk we drink now.


----------



## SFC01

Xtcismygo2 said:


> They should sell bras for guys now since estrogen is basically in all the milk we drink now.


I have my own line in bra's, @V1bzz and @WillComp just ordered a pair from the large series !

Good luck with the nardil though, when are you getting up to 60mg?


----------



## Xtcismygo2

So for some reason my psychiatrist put me on 30mg for two months, but I upped it myself to 45 and scheduled an early visit with him next month since I'll run out of pills before the scheduled two month visit. So mid June I'll ask him for a dosage increase. I am curious to see how I'll respond to a higher dosage, but I've set my expectations low because I haven't found anything that's even as remotely effective as klonopin; however, I like nardil so far from the lack of sexual side effects that I get with standard Ssris. Like I said I'm not expecting a miracle with nardil but hoping for about 60 to 70 percent reduction of SA on my non klonopin working days.


----------



## rm123

You's are making me curious to drop down for a few weeks and see if I can get this euphoria haha.

I went through a horrible time recently, extremely suicidal and intense crying spells, even lost my little weekend job bc I started showing up late or not at all. Every time I had a shift I would start shaking and crying or my body would feel so heavy I physically couldn't haul myself out of bed. Entirely my fault I got fired of course but was a major blow at the time.

Happily though I've had the motivation to workout everyday recently, I'm seeing changes and it def helps my mood! Except now for some reason I cannot sleep, no matter how hard I try, and if it gets to the point I pass out it's only for a few hours at a time, so my body's aching from exhaustion a little.

May have a silver lining though. The tiredness I was experiencing which doctors said they couldn't help, well I happen to have a very low iron count, like 23 when it should be up in the 200's. however it's only considered an iron deficiency if below 20 so the docs wouldn't give me any iron tabs! A bit ridiculous I thought when I was complaining of such extreme fatigue (and if u could see, im so pale, go out in the snow and I disappear!)

But, my mum got prescribed iron tablets today, and she is insisting I take some too to see if it helps my fatigue (it upsets her too to see me miserable or catch me sobbing in my bedroom). so hopefully this will help me feel better :~)

(I think from my rambling post, something's definitely working! I do feel extremely lonely right now and have regressed into hermit mode, but I am motivated to do things, which is something I was extremely lacking before.)

Anyway! I hope everyone continues to feel better :--)


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> So I'm starting Nardil again after 2 weeks break. What dose should I take? Will Nardil effects take a few months to kick in?


Go for 45 mate. take 2 in morning with or after breakfast then take other two early afternoon, lunch time.
Thats exactly how i'm doing it and I feel great :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> You's are making me curious to drop down for a few weeks and see if I can get this euphoria haha.
> 
> I went through a horrible time recently, extremely suicidal and intense crying spells, even lost my little weekend job bc I started showing up late or not at all. Every time I had a shift I would start shaking and crying or my body would feel so heavy I physically couldn't haul myself out of bed. Entirely my fault I got fired of course but was a major blow at the time.
> 
> Happily though I've had the motivation to workout everyday recently, I'm seeing changes and it def helps my mood! Except now for some reason I cannot sleep, no matter how hard I try, and if it gets to the point I pass out it's only for a few hours at a time, so my body's aching from exhaustion a little.
> 
> May have a silver lining though. The tiredness I was experiencing which doctors said they couldn't help, well I happen to have a very low iron count, like 23 when it should be up in the 200's. however it's only considered an iron deficiency if below 20 so the docs wouldn't give me any iron tabs! A bit ridiculous I thought when I was complaining of such extreme fatigue (and if u could see, im so pale, go out in the snow and I disappear!)
> 
> But, my mum got prescribed iron tablets today, and she is insisting I take some too to see if it helps my fatigue (it upsets her too to see me miserable or catch me sobbing in my bedroom). so hopefully this will help me feel better :~)
> 
> (I think from my rambling post, something's definitely working! I do feel extremely lonely right now and have regressed into hermit mode, but I am motivated to do things, which is something I was extremely lacking before.)
> 
> Anyway! I hope everyone continues to feel better :--)


what does are you on at the moment mate? makes me feel bad to read your not in a cool place.
Is nardil not working for you?
I would say drop down if it isnt doing its job. do a restart like me and sweeto.


----------



## watertouch

Is it only the Captain that gets increased sweatning from Nardil or do you others get it to, and do you know why?

Summer is bad as it is, i actually find Parnate to be helpfull against the sweatning, but Nardil might be a different Thing.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

watertouch said:


> Is it only the Captain that gets increased sweatning from Nardil or do you others get it to, and do you know why?
> 
> Summer is bad as it is, i actually find Parnate to be helpfull against the sweatning, but Nardil might be a different Thing.


Two of my coworkers commented on my sweating today. It's embarrassing. I wonder if a general practitioner would prescribe oxybutynin for me. My psychiatrist wants me to see an endocrinologist. I work five days a week. I can't be seeing three different doctors. Do you guys think I should ask my general practitioner for a medication to stop the sweating?


----------



## Sweeto

V1: should I wait till I get agmatine (up to 2 days) with starting of Nardil?


----------



## Sweeto

I've just found agmatine sulphate 100x500mg. Is sulphate ok? Thx


----------



## rm123

watertouch said:


> Is it only the Captain that gets increased sweatning from Nardil or do you others get it to, and do you know why?
> 
> Summer is bad as it is, i actually find Parnate to be helpfull against the sweatning, but Nardil might be a different Thing.


No I've noticed that too lol, I got a special deodorant off the doc before, u put on at night & it helped loads! Need to get it again. I know you can just buy it out the pharmacy too but can't remember what it's called.

It's esp annoying if u go for a shower, go to bed & wake up needing to shower again!! or if ur not sleeping in ur own bed, makes me a little paranoid haha


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Is it only the Captain that gets increased sweatning from Nardil or do you others get it to, and do you know why?
> 
> Summer is bad as it is, i actually find Parnate to be helpfull against the sweatning, but Nardil might be a different Thing.


Not me mate. I do in the evening though, get abit damp, oh and i sweat a little too and feel hot. Prob cos i'm wanking too much?


----------



## V1bzz

Xtcismygo2 said:


> So for some reason my psychiatrist put me on 30mg for two months, but I upped it myself to 45 and scheduled an early visit with him next month since I'll run out of pills before the scheduled two month visit. So mid June I'll ask him for a dosage increase. I am curious to see how I'll respond to a higher dosage, but I've set my expectations low because I haven't found anything that's even as remotely effective as klonopin; however, I like nardil so far from the lack of sexual side effects that I get with standard Ssris. Like I said I'm not expecting a miracle with nardil but hoping for about 60 to 70 percent reduction of SA on my non klonopin working days.


Sounds to me like he may be trying to keep you from the fast dosing extreme side effects. If I knew what I do now I would have taken it slower too. 
I know it's frustrating because feeling better is a strong motivator to try and rush things through.
How are you feeling on 45mg?

I was at a cross between 75/90mg after two months. I see now looking back it was the biggest mistake. You gotta take it slow with Nardil and try to impatiently be patient lol.


----------



## V1bzz

*P.S. To all....*

Wow this thread is 35 pages long now :grin2: wonder if thats a record for a serious topic?
Hopefully many are learning from our mistakes and doing this right. 
I really like the thought of helping others not go through the hell I was in for 2 months 

Update on how i'm feeling. Was abit annoyed at myself that I forgot to set my alarm and woke up at 9am! Been feeling like crap most of the day too because of that. Had a med hangover this morning boo!

My nardil feelings are still here, has been very mild, nearly unnoticable, that was until I dropped my lunch time two. Now i'm feeling all fuzzy again =)
My libido is going as each day passes, bit gutted, was hoping to just keep a normal level at least. Constipation is back abit but all is good.

I honestly feel like I can feel the 60mg kick in already. Since I took the second two my eyes are feeling abit heavy every now and then, not heavy is a tired way but heavy in a 'i'm kinda high' way lol.
The tingling is back too, I likes that I does.

My appetite is abit below normal at the moment but i'm happy with that. at 75/90 as soon as i woke up i would want to go and get cookies lol. I would do two packs at a time dipping it in my tea. no bloody tea left by the time i had finished lmao.

I'm kinda being a good boy food wise without trying. I think i'm on my way to getting some kind of fitness back in my life.
Once I have abit of spare cash each month I will be joining a gym, the main one where i live is one of them ones where i'm pretty much going to be perving the whole time im in there. I may have to invest in some mirror shades again.

Ok nardil is making me ramble again LOL. Think I covered everything I didn't know I was going to say 

@Sweeto take it slow this time 

I know i've said this a few times but i cant believe that nardil is working for me now. it's makes me literally laugh when i think about it. It wasn't long ago i would take my dose and it would make me feel terrible and ill all day.
Now i take it and it makes me feel awesome. How is this possible???????

P.P.p frigin P.s - Never thought I would ever get to change my mood on this forum to anything but feeling ill or tired or fed up lol


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> Two of my coworkers commented on my sweating today. It's embarrassing. I wonder if a general practitioner would prescribe oxybutynin for me. My psychiatrist wants me to see an endocrinologist. I work five days a week. I can't be seeing three different doctors. Do you guys think I should ask my general practitioner for a medication to stop the sweating?


Yeah speak to your gp about it, this is one of the only times they are helpful. just make sure its nardil friendly though 
Is your bp really high do you know?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I've just found agmatine sulphate 100x500mg. Is sulphate ok? Thx


Yep, na don't wait, just go for it man :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> No I've noticed that too lol, I got a special deodorant off the doc before, u put on at night & it helped loads! Need to get it again. I know you can just buy it out the pharmacy too but can't remember what it's called.
> 
> It's esp annoying if u go for a shower, go to bed & wake up needing to shower again!! or if ur not sleeping in ur own bed, makes me a little paranoid haha


My nephew had it where his arms were always sweating. I used to have it just under one of my arms too.spray on deodorant can sometimes make the sweating much worse. Give a rub on deod a try.

There's things like this but they are very fookin expensive - https://www.suredeodorant.co.uk/men/men-active-maximum-protection-antiperspirant-deodorant-45ml.html

Seeing a GP is the best bet I reckon.

or you guys talking about all over sweatyness?


----------



## Sweeto

Nice to see your posts... Ok so I'll start in 2 days - and begin with 30mg for a few days and after that 60mg. When did Nardil kick in for you?


----------



## WillComp

Sweeto - that seems a bit quick to go back up to 60. I didn't go up to 60 until after a month. 


If I were you, I would start at 15 for a few days, then 30 for a few more days, then 45 for 2 weeks. 60 is when all the nasty side effects kick in. I think when the sides eventually subside and become manageable is when you first start feeling Nardil work. 


At 45, I experienced little to no side effects. I could orgasm in 15 min - libido was high as usual. Reduction in SA wasn't noticeable yet. Then a day or 2 after taking 60 is when all the awful side effects kicked in. I couldn't orgasm even if I stayed up all night. It's still completely impossible. And the thought of sex is actually a turn-off; my brain doesn't get why it's supposed to be exciting. :crying: 


Major hypotension and being late to work because you can't go to the bathroom (or get out without fainting) also sucks. You're probably aware or have experienced all these sides before. If they start at 60, then to me that means we should probably stay there until sides ease up. A ton of people eventually get the full benefits from Nardil at 60.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> Yeah speak to your gp about it, this is one of the only times they are helpful. just make sure its nardil friendly though
> Is your bp really high do you know?


I think a lot of those medications are not Nardil friendly, unfortunately. I haven't checked my blood pressure in awhile. I usually just check it if I don't feel well. Somewhat off-topic, but does anyone know how dangerous it is to have soy sauce while on Nardil? Have any of you guys had soy sauce while on Nardil, and did you have any blood pressure issues? My aunt's friend who is Japanese invited me out to a Japanese restaurant and pretty much all Japanese food revolves around soy sauce.


----------



## Sweeto

Yes, but I was on 90mg 2 months ago so I don't think I need to go from the beginning to feel kick in. I was on Nardil 3 months (2 months on 90mg)



WillComp said:


> Sweeto - that seems a bit quick to go back up to 60. I didn't go up to 60 until after a month.
> 
> If I were you, I would start at 15 for a few days, then 30 for a few more days, then 45 for 2 weeks. 60 is when all the nasty side effects kick in. I think when the sides eventually subside and become manageable is when you first start feeling Nardil work.
> 
> At 45, I experienced little to no side effects. I could orgasm in 15 min - libido was high as usual. Reduction in SA wasn't noticeable yet. Then a day or 2 after taking 60 is when all the awful side effects kicked in. I couldn't orgasm even if I stayed up all night. It's still completely impossible. And the thought of sex is actually a turn-off; my brain doesn't get why it's supposed to be exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Major hypotension and being late to work because you can't go to the bathroom (or get out without fainting) also sucks. You're probably aware or have experienced all these sides before. If they start at 60, then to me that means we should probably stay there until sides ease up. A ton of people eventually get the full benefits from Nardil at 60.


----------



## Sweeto

Don't be so paranoid, I was on 90mg and ate all except red vine and aged cheese with no problems



Captainmycaptain said:


> V1bzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah speak to your gp about it, this is one of the only times they are helpful. just make sure its nardil friendly though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your bp really high do you know?
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of those medications are not Nardil friendly, unfortunately. I haven't checked my blood pressure in awhile. I usually just check it if I don't feel well. Somewhat off-topic, but does anyone know how dangerous it is to have soy sauce while on Nardil? Have any of you guys had soy sauce while on Nardil, and did you have any blood pressure issues? My aunt's friend who is Japanese invited me out to a Japanese restaurant and pretty much all Japanese food revolves around soy sauce.
Click to expand...


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Not me mate. I do in the evening though, get abit damp, oh and i sweat a little too and feel hot. Prob cos i'm wanking too much?


Yes probably! Stop wanking!
But yeah hormones, like "high evening cortisol". or low bloodsugar.


----------



## Xenacat

I want to try this medication, how can I get it?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Nice to see your posts... Ok so I'll start in 2 days - and begin with 30mg for a few days and after that 60mg. When did Nardil kick in for you?


No way man, at least go to 45 for a week to 10 days as I did. I think thats too much of a big step.

well i've been on nardil for like 3 months now lol. it didnt start working until 3 days ago. about two weeks after dropping from 75/90mg.

I'm not sure but over the course of today I think a few sides are coming back, very very very mild hypo. barely noticable and fatigue has come back ever so slightly. I can feel it weighing me down abit.

That being said. I woke up this morning feeling abit unwell and still do now so it could be that. I think I got too much sleep as I forgot to set my alarm. I find I can function better on less sleep.
I now know why I felt like crap all the time for yrs, I was getting far too much sleep. maybe 4 hrs a night more than i am now with an afternoon nap if i was able.

No afternoon naps for me since I dropped down and last couple of days I been counting down the time when it's time to get up again. That's before I have even gone to bed lmfao. 
It was 3am when i went to sleep, i was happy cos i only had to wait 3 hrs before being able to get up again. unfotunately i forgot to set my alarm and woke up at 9am. Bodyclock no longer wakes me up like it used to.

Man its my hot and sweaty time, happens every evening! touching my skin now and it feels cool. inside though i'm fookin sweating my saggy balls off!


----------



## V1bzz

Xenacat said:


> I want to try this medication, how can I get it?


.Hey and welcome to our messed u thread lol. We need a ladies touch around here 0

Um you will need to speak to your doc/pdoc and ask for it. it's very rarely prescribed. 
You can buy it online i think from a few places but its expensive stuff.

Maybe you will get lucky like me. I was literally googling anxiety meds an hour or so before my doctors appointment, found nardil literally 10-15mins before i left. It was 2nd on my list of 3. went in, showed her my choices, wasnt able to prescribe first and bam she gave me nardil my 2nd choice. I thinkI was super lucky because i now know that my doc is a total ftard who is incapable of doctoring anyone. She knew nothing about it, gave me no advice. jut looked in her little book and said take 1 pill 3 times a day and i was off lol.

I guess the universe gave me a break that day. :smile2:
(then punished me for 3 months after seeing if i would break, this time i won!!)


----------



## Xenacat

V1bzz said:


> .Hey and welcome to our messed u thread lol. We need a ladies touch around here 0
> 
> Um you will need to speak to your doc/pdoc and ask for it. it's very rarely prescribed.
> You can buy it online i think from a few places but its expensive stuff.
> 
> Maybe you will get lucky like me. I was literally googling anxiety meds an hour or so before my doctors appointment, found nardil literally 10-15mins before i left. It was 2nd on my list of 3. went in, showed her my choices, wasnt able to prescribe first and bam she gave me nardil my 2nd choice. I thinkI was super lucky because i now know that my doc is a total ftard who is incapable of doctoring anyone. She knew nothing about it, gave me no advice. jut looked in her little book and said take 1 pill 3 times a day and i was off lol.
> 
> I guess the universe gave me a break that day. :smile2:
> (then punished me for 3 months after seeing if i would break, this time i won!!)


I got an appointment Friday, here in the US, a psychiatrist- I already told them I want it or Parnate. Hope I get it, if I do I will post. I would like to hear if ladies have the same side effects, such as sexual side effects and weight gain? I definitely don't need that.


----------



## Sweeto

Do you still feel niceness or it was just temporary?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Do you still feel niceness or it was just temporary?


Yeah I still feel it mate. Especially after my lunch time dose :grin2:
I'm sure the agmatine helps it you know. Like, gives it a kick up the arse


----------



## Sweeto

Great, your on 60 if I remember, right? Btw now I have to take 100mg tramadol because of one event, half-life is 6 hours. If I take 100mg tramadol now, is it ok to take Nardil tomorrow 10am? 

It will be 3x half-life since tramadol dose. In fact 12.5mg in my body...


----------



## rm123

Xenacat said:


> V1bzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> .Hey and welcome to our messed u thread lol. We need a ladies touch around here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um you will need to speak to your doc/pdoc and ask for it. it's very rarely prescribed.
> You can buy it online i think from a few places but its expensive stuff.
> 
> Maybe you will get lucky like me. I was literally googling anxiety meds an hour or so before my doctors appointment, found nardil literally 10-15mins before i left. It was 2nd on my list of 3. went in, showed her my choices, wasnt able to prescribe first and bam she gave me nardil my 2nd choice. I thinkI was super lucky because i now know that my doc is a total ftard who is incapable of doctoring anyone. She knew nothing about it, gave me no advice. jut looked in her little book and said take 1 pill 3 times a day and i was off lol.
> 
> I guess the universe gave me a break that day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (then punished me for 3 months after seeing if i would break, this time i won!!)
> 
> 
> 
> I got an appointment Friday, here in the US, a psychiatrist- I already told them I want it or Parnate. Hope I get it, if I do I will post. I would like to hear if ladies have the same side effects, such as sexual side effects and weight gain? I definitely don't need that.
Click to expand...

Hello! I guess the ppl on this thread don't know I'm actually a woman aha :~) I've been on Nardil for over a year, experience abs no sexual side effects, quite the opposite actually. As for weight gain, your cravings for sugar are gonna increase. Chocolate will never have tasted so good in ur life! So you'll need some willpower to resist.

Tbh, I did experience mild bloating, & it can be p annoying. I can take a pill & within 30mins my stomach has increased & I get a little preview of what I'll look like in early pregnancy. But when I say mild, I truly mean that. Maybe compare it to period bloating, or even less. Def worth it for the benefits of Nardil.

I should point out though, I have never gained weight or had sexual issues on any antidepressant - SSRI's, SNRI, TCA. So if you've had these issues before then I'm not sure if it'll be different for u. However u can get other pills prescribed to help w this (trazadone is meant to be great for libido, doesn't even get prescribed to hypersexuals bc it worsens their symptoms).

All things considered, having a life where you're not terrified of every tiny social interaction is well worth the side effects Nardil has, which u will have to be prepared to deal w for a while. Good luck at the psych's!


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> Hello! I guess the ppl on this thread don't know I'm actually a woman aha :~) I've been on Nardil for over a year, experience abs no sexual side effects, quite the opposite actually. As for weight gain, your cravings for sugar are gonna increase. Chocolate will never have tasted so good in ur life! So you'll need some willpower to resist.
> 
> Tbh, I did experience mild bloating, & it can be p annoying. I can take a pill & within 30mins my stomach has increased & I get a little preview of what I'll look like in early pregnancy. But when I say mild, I truly mean that. Maybe compare it to period bloating, or even less. Def worth it for the benefits of Nardil.
> 
> I should point out though, I have never gained weight or had sexual issues on any antidepressant - SSRI's, SNRI, TCA. So if you've had these issues before then I'm not sure if it'll be different for u. However u can get other pills prescribed to help w this (trazadone is meant to be great for libido, doesn't even get prescribed to hypersexuals bc it worsens their symptoms).
> 
> All things considered, having a life where you're not terrified of every tiny social interaction is well worth the side effects Nardil has, which u will have to be prepared to deal w for a while. Good luck at the psych's!


And you let me call you mate all this time!!!


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Great, your on 60 if I remember, right? Btw now I have to take 100mg tramadol because of one event, half-life is 6 hours. If I take 100mg tramadol now, is it ok to take Nardil tomorrow 10am?
> 
> It will be 3x half-life since tramadol dose. In fact 12.5mg in my body...


Don't know mate? my lovely? :grin2:

I'm just checking here now. Pretty handy link to save - https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/phenelzine,nardil.html

Hmm, you need to find out how long you have to wait to go back on nardil. Says major interaction :O
https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2221-0,1839-1190

I've only just gone up to 60mg, im at day 4 or summin. Done 10 or more days at 45 first. Pretty muc has soon as I couldn't take the headshocks any more. I was aiming for 14days. The headshocks and out of control libido made me dose up sooner.

See how you feel on 45, I would say to try and stay there for at least 2 weeks.


----------



## WillComp

rm123 said:


> Hello! I guess the ppl on this thread don't know I'm actually a woman aha :~) I've been on Nardil for over a year, experience abs no sexual side effects, quite the opposite actually. As for weight gain, *your cravings for sugar are gonna increase. Chocolate will never have tasted so good in ur life! So you'll need some willpower to resist.
> *
> Tbh, I did experience mild bloating, & it can be p annoying. I can take a pill & within 30mins my stomach has increased & I get a little preview of what I'll look like in early pregnancy. But when I say mild, I truly mean that. Maybe compare it to period bloating, or even less. Def worth it for the benefits of Nardil.
> 
> I should point out though, I have never gained weight or had sexual issues on any antidepressant - SSRI's, SNRI, TCA. So if you've had these issues before then I'm not sure if it'll be different for u. However u can get other pills prescribed to help w this (trazadone is meant to be great for libido, doesn't even get prescribed to hypersexuals bc it worsens their symptoms).
> 
> All things considered, having a life where you're not terrified of every tiny social interaction is well worth the side effects Nardil has, which u will have to be prepared to deal w for a while. Good luck at the psych's!


OMG, you can say that again! :grin2: I had some chocolate cake on Memorial Day and was in heaven. It was the best thing I've eaten in my life. And it was just a simple chocolate cake. Your taste buds are super sensitive and everything you eat gives you a major high. Best side effect of Nardil, imo.


----------



## Xenacat

rm123 said:


> Hello! I guess the ppl on this thread don't know I'm actually a woman aha :~) I've been on Nardil for over a year, experience abs no sexual side effects, quite the opposite actually. As for weight gain, your cravings for sugar are gonna increase. Chocolate will never have tasted so good in ur life! So you'll need some willpower to resist.
> 
> Tbh, I did experience mild bloating, & it can be p annoying. I can take a pill & within 30mins my stomach has increased & I get a little preview of what I'll look like in early pregnancy. But when I say mild, I truly mean that. Maybe compare it to period bloating, or even less. Def worth it for the benefits of Nardil.
> 
> I should point out though, I have never gained weight or had sexual issues on any antidepressant - SSRI's, SNRI, TCA. So if you've had these issues before then I'm not sure if it'll be different for u. However u can get other pills prescribed to help w this (trazadone is meant to be great for libido, doesn't even get prescribed to hypersexuals bc it worsens their symptoms).
> 
> All things considered, having a life where you're not terrified of every tiny social interaction is well worth the side effects Nardil has, which u will have to be prepared to deal w for a while. Good luck at the psych's!


Thanks for the great advice mate! Lol, I do gain weight easily so that is a lil' scary but if I don't change I'm gonna lose my job. I'm gonna go for it.


----------



## WillComp

Xenacat said:


> Thanks for the great advice mate! Lol, I do gain weight easily so that is a lil' scary but if I don't change I'm gonna lose my job. I'm gonna go for it.


Just one more piece of advice. If Nardil works for you, you'll keep your job, but you might not wanna change your personality too much.

I just learned the hard way. I thought I was going to lose my job, since every non-Klonopin day was miserable for me and I could barely function, even after a few hrs of taking Klonopin. Now that I'm on Nardil and it's working, I act like a different person at work.

Today something happened that has me a bit worried, I don't know what to think. The VP came in my office and sat down (he's never done that before, and if he did in the past I would have freaked) and I was as calm and professional as could be. He wants me to take on a new responsibility: conducting interviews for temp positions, and he's gonna train me tomorrow. He also wants me to take a class tomorrow and introduce myself in front of everyone. The class includes eating lunch with everyone at 12:00. The only response my brain knows is utter dread and anxiety/panic attacks. We'll see what happens tomorrow though.

Today he seemed impressed with me and was friendlier than I've ever seen him. He usually avoids me. Basically I think he wants me to take on more responsibilities and maybe get a promotion in the upcoming months. Now I have mixed feelings, mostly freaked out. What if Nardil stops working? What if Klonopin stops losing its efficacy, which is already slowly happening? Then I'm screwed! :afr


----------



## Xenacat

WillComp said:


> Just one more piece of advice. If Nardil works for you, you'll keep your job, but you might not wanna change your personality too much.
> 
> I just learned the hard way. I thought I was going to lose my job, since every non-Klonopin day was miserable for me and I could barely function, even after a few hrs of taking Klonopin. Now that I'm on Nardil and it's working, I act like a different person at work.
> 
> Today something happened that has me a bit worried, I don't know what to think. The VP came in my office and sat down (he's never done that before, and if he did in the past I would have freaked) and I was as calm and professional as could be. He wants me to take on a new responsibility: conducting interviews for temp positions, and he's gonna train me tomorrow. He also wants me to take a class tomorrow and introduce myself in front of everyone. The class includes eating lunch with everyone at 12:00. The only response my brain knows is utter dread and anxiety/panic attacks. We'll see what happens tomorrow though.
> 
> Today he seemed impressed with me and was friendlier than I've ever seen him. He usually avoids me. Basically I think he wants me to take on more responsibilities and maybe get a promotion in the upcoming months. Now I have mixed feelings, mostly freaked out. What if Nardil stops working? What if Klonopin stops losing its efficacy, which is already slowly happening? Then I'm screwed! :afr


I think you worry too much. I have done interviews and public speaking before at work because I work HR. The more you do it the easier it gets - good luck. Klonopin doesn't do anything for me and I really need my job. I know easier said than done but just roll with it, if ya can't do it they will move on to someone who can. I have a harder time with personal 1-1 friendships than a group of folks I have to speak in front of but that is just me.


----------



## WillComp

Xenacat said:


> I think you worry too much. I have done interviews and public speaking before at work because I work HR. The more you do it the easier it gets - good luck. Klonopin doesn't do anything for me and I really need my job. I know easier said than done but just roll with it, if ya can't do it they will move on to someone who can. I have a harder time with personal 1-1 friendships than a group of folks I have to speak in front of but that is just me.


Thanks! I'll update in this thread how it all went down. Hopefully it won't be too bad. I have a harder time in group situations than with 1-1 interactions. It's always been a phobia of mine. Actually any social interaction was always anxiety-provoking for me. It's good to know it gets easier the more you do it, especially on Nardil. Now I just gotta roll with it!


----------



## Xenacat

rm123 said:


> Hello! I guess the ppl on this thread don't know I'm actually a woman aha :~) I've been on Nardil for over a year, experience abs no sexual side effects, quite the opposite actually. As for weight gain, your cravings for sugar are gonna increase. Chocolate will never have tasted so good in ur life! So you'll need some willpower to resist.
> 
> Tbh, I did experience mild bloating, & it can be p annoying. I can take a pill & within 30mins my stomach has increased & I get a little preview of what I'll look like in early pregnancy. But when I say mild, I truly mean that. Maybe compare it to period bloating, or even less. Def worth it for the benefits of Nardil.
> 
> I should point out though, I have never gained weight or had sexual issues on any antidepressant - SSRI's, SNRI, TCA. So if you've had these issues before then I'm not sure if it'll be different for u. However u can get other pills prescribed to help w this (trazadone is meant to be great for libido, doesn't even get prescribed to hypersexuals bc it worsens their symptoms).
> 
> All things considered, having a life where you're not terrified of every tiny social interaction is well worth the side effects Nardil has, which u will have to be prepared to deal w for a while. Good luck at the psych's!


Crash and burn. Nope, they want me to stay on my current meds before switching! I told her the stuff wasn't working! Argh!


----------



## Gillman fan

Sounds like you are doing better v1! Contrats. I would find all that waiting rather annoying.


----------



## V1bzz

Xenacat said:


> Crash and burn. Nope, they want me to stay on my current meds before switching! I told her the stuff wasn't working! Argh!


Damn it, you should have said they were making you ill. They have no choice then to take you off them.
What you could do is start to come off your current meds slowly, make an appointment with another doc and say you started to come off them because they were making you feel terrible, hopefully you get it as easy as i was able to. I was the luckiest guy on this forum to get mine lol. found out about nardil about 15mins before my doc appointment. had it as second choice of 3, was refused the first and given the second lol. Jammy. 
Have been told people beg to get on it and print off articles and such to back their case and try for yrs.

Would have been perfect if it hadn't made my life hell for the first 3 months


----------



## Cassoulet94

Xenacat said:


> WillComp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just one more piece of advice. If Nardil works for you, you'll keep your job, but you might not wanna change your personality too much.
> 
> I just learned the hard way. I thought I was going to lose my job, since every non-Klonopin day was miserable for me and I could barely function, even after a few hrs of taking Klonopin. Now that I'm on Nardil and it's working, I act like a different person at work.
> 
> Today something happened that has me a bit worried, I don't know what to think. The VP came in my office and sat down (he's never done that before, and if he did in the past I would have freaked) and I was as calm and professional as could be. He wants me to take on a new responsibility: conducting interviews for temp positions, and he's gonna train me tomorrow. He also wants me to take a class tomorrow and introduce myself in front of everyone. The class includes eating lunch with everyone at 12:00. The only response my brain knows is utter dread and anxiety/panic attacks. We'll see what happens tomorrow though.
> 
> Today he seemed impressed with me and was friendlier than I've ever seen him. He usually avoids me. Basically I think he wants me to take on more responsibilities and maybe get a promotion in the upcoming months. Now I have mixed feelings, mostly freaked out. What if Nardil stops working? What if Klonopin stops losing its efficacy, which is already slowly happening? Then I'm screwed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you worry too much. I have done interviews and public speaking before at work because I work HR. The more you do it the easier it gets - good luck. Klonopin doesn't do anything for me and I really need my job. I know easier said than done but just roll with it, if ya can't do it they will move on to someone who can. I have a harder time with personal 1-1 friendships than a group of folks I have to speak in front of but that is just me.
Click to expand...

Hey,

I agree don't focus too much on what might happen if that and that and that... nardil is not like klonopkin it's not like its effect will stop all of a sudden. Plus as already said the more you do something the less you feel anxious about it so even if nardil was to stop working, you would still be able to relate on past experience.


----------



## V1bzz

Got an update for you guys. I have been at 60mg now for 1 week and I have decided that I am dropping back down to 45 again.
Last couple of days I have been feeling ****ty again. My fatigue is returning and the pain in my legs. I can also feel the start of the urinary retention kicking in. I have anorgasmia. I think I have gone up far too soon. 

I want to do it properly this time and not break it and my body like last time.

I will go back to 45 starting from tomorrow (just need to remember how i was dosing 3?) and just stay at it for a couple more weeks or so. I want my body to adjust more before moving up. I was only 2 weeks at 45 yesterday so i basically went up a dose after 1 week. Thats far too soon imo, body needs to adjust for i think maybe 2-4 weeks.

I had to have my first afternoon nap today in weeks. I feel heavy, tired and sluggish where as I felt light, happy and full of beans (gay!) at 45.

It seems I am the nardil mistake man. if one can be made i'll find it and do it. Just don't follow my lead 

Take your time guys and gal. Let your body fully adjust before moving up or it will be the same old sh11t, different day.

Dunno about you guys but i'm sick of feeling like dog sh11t every day!

I moved up sooner than I wanted because my libido was out of control. worse than when i was a teenager lol. I would prefer to be horny as fook than feel like a bag of poopenhausen tha's for sure.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> Sounds like you are doing better v1! Contrats. I would find all that waiting rather annoying.


It was very annoying mate. I think it was once me feeling like i was dying every day suddenly passed that it started working


----------



## Sweeto

Hi, that's sad... But beside side effects, is it still working on your SA and mood? I'm beginning tomorrow



V1bzz said:


> Got an update for you guys. I have been at 60mg now for 1 week and I have decided that I am dropping back down to 45 again.
> Last couple of days I have been feeling ****ty again. My fatigue is returning and the pain in my legs. I can also feel the start of the urinary retention kicking in. I have anorgasmia. I think I have gone up far too soon.
> 
> I want to do it properly this time and not break it and my body like last time.
> 
> I will go back to 45 starting from tomorrow (just need to remember how i was dosing 3?) and just stay at it for a couple more weeks or so. I want my body to adjust more before moving up. I was only 2 weeks at 45 yesterday so i basically went up a dose after 1 week. Thats far too soon imo, body needs to adjust for i think maybe 2-4 weeks.
> 
> I had to have my first afternoon nap today in weeks. I feel heavy, tired and sluggish where as I felt light, happy and full of beans (gay!) at 45.
> 
> It seems I am the nardil mistake man. if one can be made i'll find it and do it. Just don't follow my lead
> 
> Take your time guys and gal. Let your body fully adjust before moving up or it will be the same old sh11t, different day.
> 
> Dunno about you guys but i'm sick of feeling like dog sh11t every day!
> 
> I moved up sooner than I wanted because my libido was out of control. worse than when i was a teenager lol. I would prefer to be horny as fook than feel like a bag of poopenhausen tha's for sure.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Got an update for you guys. I have been at 60mg now for 1 week and I have decided that I am dropping back down to 45 again.
> Last couple of days I have been feeling ****ty again. My fatigue is returning and the pain in my legs. I can also feel the start of the urinary retention kicking in. I have anorgasmia. I think I have gone up far too soon.
> 
> I want to do it properly this time and not break it and my body like last time.
> 
> I will go back to 45 starting from tomorrow (just need to remember how i was dosing 3?) and just stay at it for a couple more weeks or so. I want my body to adjust more before moving up. I was only 2 weeks at 45 yesterday so i basically went up a dose after 1 week. Thats far too soon imo, body needs to adjust for i think maybe 2-4 weeks.
> 
> I had to have my first afternoon nap today in weeks. I feel heavy, tired and sluggish where as I felt light, happy and full of beans (gay!) at 45.
> 
> It seems I am the nardil mistake man. if one can be made i'll find it and do it. Just don't follow my lead
> 
> Take your time guys and gal. Let your body fully adjust before moving up or it will be the same old sh11t, different day.
> 
> Dunno about you guys but i'm sick of feeling like dog sh11t every day!
> 
> I moved up sooner than I wanted because my libido was out of control. worse than when i was a teenager lol. I would prefer to be horny as fook than feel like a bag of poopenhausen tha's for sure.


Sorry to hear that, mate! You were feeling so great before these 60 sides started kicking it. That's what I call them: 60 sides. For me, they only kicked in after starting 60.

Don't be surprised if it stops working while you're back at 45. And the sides may come back in full force when you increase to 60 again. I don't think it's a bad idea though to go down to 45. No matter what, I think whenever you decide to go back to 60, you'll feel that nice and lovely feeling again, and eventually that amazing reduction in SA. Good luck! You deserve the best from Nardil!


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## WillComp

Here's an update on today: 
Today was by far the best day I've felt on Nardil since I started. It's been 1 month since I started 60mg. 
When I first got to work, I had no anxiety. I felt great too. Nice lovely peaceful feeling. The VP stopped by my office to provide training on conducting interviews, and I had zero anxiety. He was in here for about 30 minutes, and I felt that I was professional the whole time, smiled a lot and did the best I could when answering questions. And I wasn't prepared at all. 
After that I had to attend a training class with 12 people from another company that wants to merge with us, plus a few others from my company. We had to introduce ourselves and tell an interesting thing about ourselves. I didn't even have anxiety. My voice cracked twice but wasn't that noticeable&#8230; I'm not gonna be a pro just yet... LOL. After a while we toured the facility, and I chatted with a few people. They treated me like I was normal. 
After all that, I had to sit in the training room, desks in a circle, and eat lunch with everyone (and of course the standard catered food tasted like it was from a 5-star restaurant). The entire lunch was 1 group conversation rather than 1 on 1 conversation because it's really quiet in there. I talked more than most people in the room, asked a few questions when the conversation turned to the host running a marathon and I described to the group what it's like running over the Charleston Bridge. I actually put 2 sentences together, multiple times... Hurray! LOL After lunch, I got up and said I have to get back to work and it was great meeting you all - if you need anything my office is right next door. 
Now I'm feeling on cloud 9. Not because I accomplished something I never thought I would, but because I feel so damn good&#8230; despite all the side effects. Still have urinary retention, constipation, fatigue, hypo, anorgasmia, sore muscles, and many more. Gotta figure out some creative ways to get rid of them. But they're not gonna pull me down.. not when I'm on cloud 9. 0


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## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hi, that's sad... But beside side effects, is it still working on your SA and mood? I'm beginning tomorrow


Yeah it's still working abit mate, I just don't feel all warm and fuzzy anymore like I was. I went into the chinese tonight to pick up some food and it was real busy. the kind of siuation i dread while you stand there waiting. I could feel my paranoia there but it didn't overwhelm me like it usually would. I was still able to talk with abit of confidence in my voice. Its very early days for me since nardil kicked in, about a week or less so at this stage i am happy with where i am at anxiety wise with it.
It's just the sides, started to feel them building last couple of days and it reminded me of how sick it made me. I'm not up for that again so am going to spend a little bit more time at 45 and do as @SFC01 has suggested to me.
I will wait until I feel like im back at 45 in my system, in other words a raging hound dog :grin2: and then after about a week or so start introducing the 60mg. maybe one every 2nd or 3rd day. get it into me slowly.

Sounds like a plan and I will give it a go. I'm not rushing this like last time. Slow and steady wins the race.

I know us folks with this illness are impatient fluckers, just sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do to get better. I have tried the just ram the nardil down my throat all at once 90mg approach and it just doesnt work for me lol. I even done a day of 120mg.

If i can go back to 45 and feel like i was a few days ago then that would be awesome for now :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Here's an update on today:
> Today was by far the best day I've felt on Nardil since I started. It's been 1 month since I started 60mg.
> When I first got to work, I had no anxiety. I felt great too. Nice lovely peaceful feeling. The VP stopped by my office to provide training on conducting interviews, and I had zero anxiety. He was in here for about 30 minutes, and I felt that I was professional the whole time, smiled a lot and did the best I could when answering questions. And I wasn't prepared at all.
> After that I had to attend a training class with 12 people from another company that wants to merge with us, plus a few others from my company. We had to introduce ourselves and tell an interesting thing about ourselves. I didn't even have anxiety. My voice cracked twice but wasn't that noticeable&#8230; I'm not gonna be a pro just yet... LOL. After a while we toured the facility, and I chatted with a few people. They treated me like I was normal.
> After all that, I had to sit in the training room, desks in a circle, and eat lunch with everyone (and of course the standard catered food tasted like it was from a 5-star restaurant). The entire lunch was 1 group conversation rather than 1 on 1 conversation because it's really quiet in there. I talked more than most people in the room, asked a few questions when the conversation turned to the host running a marathon and I described to the group what it's like running over the Charleston Bridge. I actually put 2 sentences together, multiple times... Hurray! LOL After lunch, I got up and said I have to get back to work and it was great meeting you all - if you need anything my office is right next door.
> Now I'm feeling on cloud 9. Not because I accomplished something I never thought I would, but because I feel so damn good&#8230; despite all the side effects. Still have urinary retention, constipation, fatigue, hypo, anorgasmia, sore muscles, and many more. Gotta figure out some creative ways to get rid of them. But they're not gonna pull me down.. not when I'm on cloud 9. 0


That's awesome mate, really chuffed for you :grin2::clap


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## Sweeto

V1: I've taken 30mg + agmatine 500 mg right now. How long should I wait till kick in? It'll be 18 days since my Nardil withdrawal


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## V1bzz

Ok hint taken @WillComp @Sweeto I'll stop being a p#$sy and carry on at 60! :kiss:
@Sweeto, hmm i've never done 30mg, maybe just 3 days? then hit 45, don't know man. I would just go from 45 to be honest.


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## Sweeto

At lunch time I'll take another 15mg


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## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> At lunch time I'll take another 15mg


I felt like sh11t yesterday, the whole day and I think it's because i was doing a test by not taking my agmatine with my dose. I went back to normal today and feel great again, lots of energy etc etc. Could be a coincidence so i am going to double my aggy dose and see if i notice a difference. I have been doing 650mg with my 2 nardil in the morning and the same early afternoon.

Tip for you, dont take aggy at night or late afternoon, i noticed early on it effects how peaceful your nights sleep is. I was tossing and turning like a mo fo!


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto 
Don't forget to split the dose, i think its an important part of getting the nice feelings. I do 2 first thing then the other two between 1-2pm. I aint no expert of feeling good lmao but it seems to be going ok so far


----------



## WillComp

Pulling for you guys!

By the way, we should start a log or something on ways to deal with side effects.

V1's advice to close your eyes when getting up to reduce the symptoms of hypo was super helpful.

Now the other sides.

I know we're all different but someone's advice might help someone else out. For me personally, after giving it a lot of thought I've concluded I'm not interested in other pills to combat sides, except caffeine pills for fatigue. They've been a life saver for me, esp at work.

Urinary retention: I've had it about a month. In my experience, sitting down is easier. Then let your mind wander, out to some wacky fantasy place. Always make your thoughts as positive as possible. This is key.

For me, I let my mind wander to a deserted island, sitting on an old tire deep in the woods. Can hear the waves just outside the trees
No ones around, no one knows you're there. you have a boat but ain't goin anywhere anytime soon. You're having the best time of your life. Keep dreaming and eventually you'll start to go. If not, try again in a few hrs. Just don't dwell on it.

Well, to keep this post short I'll leave my suggestions/advice for other sides later.

What are some ways you all combat sides to make them manageable?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I felt like sh11t yesterday, the whole day and I think it's because i was doing a test by not taking my agmatine with my dose. I went back to normal today and feel great again, lots of energy etc etc. Could be a coincidence so i am going to double my aggy dose and see if i notice a difference. I have been doing 650mg with my 2 nardil in the morning and the same early afternoon.
> 
> Tip for you, dont take aggy at night or late afternoon, i noticed early on it effects how peaceful your nights sleep is. I was tossing and turning like a mo fo!


Awesome.. Woohoo! I think we're all gonna feel our best in July or Aug. Can't wait for the upcoming months.

By the way, what exactly does aggy do and what does it help with? I'm planning to start saving more, so not sure if I wanna pay more $ for this, just curious how it works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## V1bzz

Hope nobody here has a fetish for skanky feet? Thought I would show you what they are like.  They have actually drasticly inproved. When I used to take my socks off there was an indentation of about an inch deep, I sh11t you not......and yes i have bent toes from sitting all my life with them bent so don't go there 

mmm cheesy

Took my socks off about 45mins ago

Don't look too bad in photos


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Pulling for you guys!
> 
> By the way, we should start a log or something on ways to deal with side effects.
> 
> V1's advice to close your eyes when getting up to reduce the symptoms of hypo was super helpful.
> 
> Now the other sides.
> 
> I know we're all different but someone's advice might help someone else out. For me personally, after giving it a lot of thought I've concluded I'm not interested in other pills to combat sides, except caffeine pills for fatigue. They've been a life saver for me, esp at work.
> 
> Urinary retention: I've had it about a month. In my experience, sitting down is easier. Then let your mind wander, out to some wacky fantasy place. Always make your thoughts as positive as possible. This is key.
> 
> For me, I let my mind wander to a deserted island, sitting on an old tire deep in the woods. Can hear the waves just outside the trees
> No ones around, no one knows you're there. you have a boat but ain't goin anywhere anytime soon. You're having the best time of your life. Keep dreaming and eventually you'll start to go. If not, try again in a few hrs. Just don't dwell on it.
> 
> Well, to keep this post short I'll leave my suggestions/advice for other sides later.
> 
> What are some ways you all combat sides to make them manageable?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man I was totally there in that place reading this. Yeah sitting down is the key, i have tried many things, like sitting on the toilet with the tap running and putting my hand under it but as you said its all about mentality. It's not too much of a mission if you aint really thinking about it too much or bothered. Saying that, sometimes I think it works better to stand because its the pissing position, where as sitting is poo position lol.

I always sit for a piss even normal. I learnt it back in the day from a friend to deal with massive hangover.

For the coldness feelings my tip is to take a shower (bath would be better), as hot as you can, sit down as I do (if you can) and just stay in there until you feel hot and want to get out. I find that after doing that i'm ok for a long time.

I just done this today because i have been feeling cold. hopefully the bp doesnt go down to 75 like it did before. That was not fun times feelings at all!!

Yeah the closing eyes helps a damn lot, also when you feel it coming on drop into squat position. it tends to stop it or make it less severe.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Awesome.. Woohoo! I think we're all gonna feel our best in July or Aug. Can't wait for the upcoming months.
> 
> By the way, what exactly does aggy do and what does it help with? I'm planning to start saving more, so not sure if I wanna pay more $ for this, just curious how it works.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not really sure what the aggy does as we are all kinda testing it. It has properties to enhance the nardil, even increasing the likelyness of it working. Prob why mine is working now, but who knows. Nobody really knows what this stuff does. Body builders take it though because it makes them get better gains and have more strength?

I took double the aggy today, i think it just helps with the sides. I felt no different from when I do 650mg. 
Had a funny half hour this afternoon where I felt abit ill with moments of feeling like I was going to be sick. Feel fine now though after taking my shower:smile2:

Sides wise I don't feel too bad, was having one of my dancing moments after my first dose but started to feel abit gross after the second dose. No where near how I felt first time around though, my word. It was not nice. Not that I keep saying that or anything


----------



## Sweeto

V1: Ok thx and when should I expect to feel kick in? I have to mention that I had a pause from Nardil for 18 days or so.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> V1: Ok thx and when should I expect to feel kick in? I have to mention that I had a pause from Nardil for 18 days or so.


Really don't know mate because I never expected to ever feel anything. I thought I would drop right down and essentially start again. Only got as far as 45 because it started to work :grin2:

Hopefully it will be as quick for you. This is how it is supposed to kick in. I had 3 months of nothing, started again and it worked. still dumbfounds me now lol.

Weird day for me today,felt goodish early on, energy for abit of room dancing lol. took 2nd dose and felt like poo for a few hours and tired. had a nap, felt like crap, had a shower to warm up and have felt ok since. I actually feel great at the moment. Great mood, just feeling good. Drove to mcdonalds about an hour ago and loved every minute of it lol. radio 1 house tunes on full blast, sun shades on. Really enjoyed that little trip haha.


----------



## V1bzz

If you mean the aggy, my very first dose I noticed improved mood. Think it has a low half life thats why you should probably take 3 a day but not after 5pm. I do just 1 in morning and 1 lunch time and im ok all day.


----------



## neonknight77

V1bzz said:


> If you mean the aggy, my very first dose I noticed improved mood. Think it has a low half life thats why you should probably take 3 a day but not after 5pm. I do just 1 in morning and 1 lunch time and im ok all day.


You do know that this is not amphetamine and it only inhibits MAO enzymes that break-down neurotransmitters? Doesn't release them.


----------



## V1bzz

neonknight77 said:


> You do know that this is not amphetamine and it only inhibits MAO enzymes that break-down neurotransmitters? Doesn't release them.


I'm glad it's not amphet, that stuff nearly killed me. I really don't know what it does, more intelligent folks here on the forum who know about these things started a trial and I jumped on board. Funny enough the guy who said it would be good to test it couldnt get his parnate working, now it works great. It may or may not have got my Nardil working after 3 months of extreme sides and no benefits.

I don't think anyone really knows the full potential of it but it is starting to be recognised by pharma.

Thats all I know. Please share more info if you have it, would be good to know :smile2:

Did you also test it?
@KurdishFella have you tried it mate? not on it's own but with a med? we will get something doing the job for you yet!! thought about giving nardil another go. You may be lucky like me as many others have been second time around. Hope you are well. :smile2:


----------



## Sweeto

So today it's the second day since I take Nardil again. I've split does to two, morning and launch and nothing has changed so far. Of course I take agmatine together with Nardil...

Maybe this strategy is not for me...


----------



## Cassoulet94

Sweeto said:


> So today it's the second day since I take Nardil again. I've split does to two, morning and launch and nothing has changed so far. Of course I take agmatine together with Nardil...
> 
> Maybe this strategy is not for me...


Euh... but what were you expecting exactly after two days ?


----------



## zeusko87

Nardil takes 6-8 weeks to start working. 
2 days is nothing


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> So today it's the second day since I take Nardil again. I've split does to two, morning and launch and nothing has changed so far. Of course I take agmatine together with Nardil...
> 
> Maybe this strategy is not for me...


Chill man. I still had nardil in my system when i dropped. you've got to get it in your system again. 1-2 weeks


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Hope nobody here has a fetish for skanky feet? Thought I would show you what they are like.  They have actually drasticly inproved. When I used to take my socks off there was an indentation of about an inch deep, I sh11t you not......and yes i have bent toes from sitting all my life with them bent so don't go there
> 
> mmm cheesy
> 
> Took my socks off about 45mins ago
> 
> Don't look too bad in photos












Nah man, that's not too bad. I've seen some crazy google images of swollen feet or where people's sock indents looked like their feet were about to fall off. Mine have gotten pretty bad too, especially if I wear tight socks. I'm starting to get bulging veins in my legs too, I think they're varicose veins. There's not much you can do to get rid of them. I noticed them in the mirror when I was at the gym today. I doubt it's the Nardil; I think I'm just starting to get old. :O


----------



## WillComp

Sweeto said:


> So today it's the second day since I take Nardil again. I've split does to two, morning and launch and nothing has changed so far. Of course I take agmatine together with Nardil...
> 
> Maybe this strategy is not for me...


Keep taking Nardil. Don't worry about anything else. As for the sides, don't dwell on them, just tough em out. Think ahead about how awesome August will be; that's only 2 months away. By August, we'll all be on cloud 9. :laugh:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Nah man, that's not too bad. I've seen some crazy google images of swollen feet or where people's sock indents looked like their feet were about to fall off. Mine have gotten pretty bad too, especially if I wear tight socks. I'm starting to get bulging veins in my legs too, I think they're varicose veins. There's not much you can do to get rid of them. I noticed them in the mirror when I was at the gym today. I doubt it's the Nardil; I think I'm just starting to get old. :O


Mate its weird you said that, i noticed some veins today on the side of my left leg just above knee. Never had anything like that before! was not happy lol means im turning into an old fart!!

Lets blame nardil! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Keep taking Nardil. Don't worry about anything else. As for the sides, don't dwell on them, just tough em out. Think ahead about how awesome August will be; that's only 2 months away. By August, we'll all be on cloud 9. :laugh:


 @WillComp I'm getting weird head shock, brain zap type things since yesterday. Did you experience this at all?
I'm on day 9 at 60mg. Don't have the niceness any more after i take my doses either. Still have moments of goodness though.

Just don't know whats going on, last time i had this was when i was withdrawing from 75/90 to 45. Unless im still getting them but they stopped for a few days?

Worried it's failing on me =(


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> @WillComp I'm getting weird head shock, brain zap type things since yesterday. Did you experience this at all?
> I'm on day 9 at 60mg. Don't have the niceness any more after i take my doses either. Still have moments of goodness though.
> 
> Just don't know whats going on, last time i had this was when i was withdrawing from 75/90 to 45. Unless im still getting them but they stopped for a few days?
> 
> Worried it's failing on me =(


No, I've never experienced the head shocks. How often do you get them, and what does it feel like? I wonder if many other people get the same thing.

It sucks that we can't rely on doctors to give us proper advice or even have simple knowledge on all the potential side effects. Otherwise I'd recommend asking your doctor. Maybe we could ask Dr. Gillman; I've heard he responds to emails and has more knowledge on nardil than most people. I haven't emailed him personally yet though.

Today I got out to the gym for the first time since starting nardil. I felt like I was gonna faint walking into the gym (still have terrible hypotension). I took it easy lifting weights but felt I had a great workout. Felt awesome afterwards. Wouldn't be surprised if some of my sides dissapear if I keep up a routine at the gym. I would definitely recommend weight lifting. I think you'd feel a ton better and might combat some of your sides till time eventually gets rid of them.

I don't get the niceness feeling either after I take my dose. I think that warm fuzzy niceness feeling comes sporadically because of the hundreds of pills in our system, not necessarily because of a single dose. I usually get that feeling on the way to work or at night or after a nice meal or even when taking showers. The other part of the day it's just a calm peaceful feeling as if my body got rid of that aweful anxiety sickness. I can breathe now and I'm never terribly nervous anymore. So freakin strange!!

I don't think it's stopped working for you. Unfortunately I think you just need to weather the storm.. the storm is always temporary and sometimes a lot longer for some ppl. Maybe it messed up or "confused" your system by taking different dosages over that last few months. I would stick with 60 and NEVER take a different dosage till at least Aug, the "cloud 9 month".. LoL. If it doesnt work by the 1st of Aug, then maybe try Parnate or another med that would work better. I still believe it'll work wonders for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> No, I've never experienced the head shocks. How often do you get them, and what does it feel like? I wonder if many other people get the same thing.
> 
> It sucks that we can't rely on doctors to give us proper advice or even have simple knowledge on all the potential side effects. Otherwise I'd recommend asking your doctor. Maybe we could ask Dr. Gillman; I've heard he responds to emails and has more knowledge on nardil than most people. I haven't emailed him personally yet though.
> 
> Today I got out to the gym for the first time since starting nardil. I felt like I was gonna faint walking into the gym (still have terrible hypotension). I took it easy lifting weights but felt I had a great workout. Felt awesome afterwards. Wouldn't be surprised if some of my sides dissapear if I keep up a routine at the gym. I would definitely recommend weight lifting. I think you'd feel a ton better and might combat some of your sides till time eventually gets rid of them.
> 
> I don't get the niceness feeling either after I take my dose. I think that warm fuzzy niceness feeling comes sporadically because of the hundreds of pills in our system, not necessarily because of a single dose. I usually get that feeling on the way to work or at night or after a nice meal or even when taking showers. The other part of the day it's just a calm peaceful feeling as if my body got rid of that aweful anxiety sickness. I can breathe now and I'm never terribly nervous anymore. So freakin strange!!
> 
> I don't think it's stopped working for you. Unfortunately I think you just need to weather the storm.. the storm is always temporary and sometimes a lot longer for some ppl. Maybe it messed up or "confused" your system by taking different dosages over that last few months. I would stick with 60 and NEVER take a different dosage till at least Aug, the "cloud 9 month".. LoL. If it doesnt work by the 1st of Aug, then maybe try Parnate or another med that would work better. I still believe it'll work wonders for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheers man, i've been feeling ok today. Completely lost my mojo though


----------



## WillComp

Hang in there, V1. You'll get your mojo back, I swear! :boogie :yes 


I'm at work now so can't type a long post. I need to post more about combatting these side effects. I was late to work cuz I couldn't take a piss. And still can't finish - anorgasmia is killing me. Also, the last 2 days have been cloudy, and I've noticed that hypotension is down when the sun's not so bright. What's up with that? When it's bright and sunny outside, I can't even walk through a parking lot without going blind and feeling like I'm gonna collapse. So many other sides too. 


... But I wanted to updated on positive benefits.


Today's a huge marked improvement in mood and relief from anxiety. I think it's the best day yet. I keep feeling better and better, and more confident. And this is one of my non-klonopin days. On k, I never feel this good. I've been talking to strangers and coworkers as confidently as I ever have in my life. What the hell's going on? It's almost too good to be true. If this feeling ever goes away, I'll be one pissed off m'r-f'r.


----------



## V1bzz

We got any techies here?

Prob @SFC01 might know

I'm trying to make myself a hdtv for my laptop. not a subscription but build one myself by combining the different softwares needed. Thing is, i'm a total noob at this kinda stuff and am kinda winging it at the moment. This is why i haven't been around last few days, been trying to sort this, messing it up, learning something then trying again. I don't like to give up lol.

So I figured today I needed a software tuner then a software hdtv platform.

So far i have a DBD Viewer which i think, not sure, is the tuner? hahaha
I'm looking at media portal as the hd/tv?

anything else i need?

update on me to get back on topic as i don't want this thread to stop, the journey isn't over yet.

OK, still at 60mg, I was thinking earlier about how different it was for me last time at 60. I had a crazy dopamine buzz after the dose, wobbling about all day as if drunk and crazy, crazy hypotention. worst during the night when i would nearly collapse after getting up and would have to walk real slow and stumble my way to the toilet, then not be able to piss cos the hypo was too intense.
This time, nothing, really. I'm feeling abit tired every now and then, still have my sore feet and now sore knees but apart from that, nothing. 
This is just a completely different journey from last time, last time really was hell, not that you don't know, either because you went through it with me on this forum or because i mention it alot lmfao.

I do feel abit stroppy sometimes and at times feel like i've got too much to do, so get stressed. When it's only two things I gotta do like hoover, or shower or something. Distractions don't sit well with me at the moment. Prob cos i'm trying to crack this HDTV thing.
I would kinda imagine this being like the modafill if it had worked for me.

I've been eating much less, by choice. I cut out pepsi and all the cookies and sh11t i used to snack on. I just have breakfast at 07.30 of 3 slices of toast then don't eat until dinner.

Ole Mr pot belly is slowly going. I am taking fat metaboliser too though.

Umm that's about it from me, it will be 3 weeks @45 on thursday and 2 weeks @ 60 on Saturday. Still very early days yet, it could all go pete tong and my mate Mr sides comes to stay for a while. Hope not but you never know.

How is everyone else getting on?

@WillComp how many weeks you at 60 for now? and @Sweeto, what day you on now and how are you feeling?
It's funny because first time around we were all pretty close, i was lead man that time. Now its willcomp.
Were all really close again though. funny how shiit works out sometimes.

We should have all been on 60 for about 3-4 months now loving life, but nope, here we are just at the start of the journey again lol
@WillComp yeah man, i certainly don't miss walking around half blind and half deaf. trust me though you get used to it. Good timing for you now to get the shades on, i had on em quite abit and it helps with the hypo.

I need to think. I took something and it helped me piss. think it was something for constipation lol. Fibre powder, let me think on that. Apart from that I don't think i found anything to help the piss situation.

Mate your gunna have to just give up on it, get to work on time and then you can go for a sit down wee lol.

When i get abit of free time from trying to catch this hdtv thing i will search through this thread. I remember writing something about this. unless i'm remembering wrong!

Man sounds like you are having an awesome day. can't wait to get there


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> We got any techies here?
> 
> Prob @*SFC01* might know


I told you mate, I may work for a Global IT company but I know **** all about computers :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I told you mate, I may work for a Global IT company but I know **** all about computers :grin2:




Was it a nardil making me feel great i can blag this job kind of situation? lol


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Was it a nardil making me feel great i can blag this job kind of situation? lol


Got the job long before nardil !!

been at the same company for, jeez, 20 years - **** !! Only just thought about that, but I did leave twice to go travelling.

Was 1996/97 I got it so no doubt I was speeding my tits off at the interview :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Got the job long before nardil !!
> 
> been at the same company for, jeez, 20 years - **** !! Only just thought about that, but I did leave twice to go travelling.
> 
> Was 1996/97 I got it so no doubt I was speeding my tits off at the interview :grin2:










[/URL]

I remember once me and a mate took this girl to play a county netball match, during the match everyone kept looking at us in the car. It's because we were both snorting speed and were so ****ed we were both sitting there with rolled up fivers up our nostrils! 
Needless to say she never asked us again! 

That was 95 I think


----------



## SFC01

****ing 90s, anywhere we went was an excuse to take drugs - weddings, footy matches, bbqs, the beach - one summer I used drop E's first thing for my morning pick me up, chatting with my mum over brekky whie completely buzzed.


----------



## WillComp

SFC01 said:


> ****ing 90s, anywhere we went was an excuse to take drugs - weddings, footy matches, bbqs, the beach - one summer I used drop E's first thing for my morning pick me up, chatting with my mum over brekky whie completely buzzed.










Sounds like me on Nardil. Did your mum have any idea?


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> @*WillComp* how many weeks you at 60 for now?


Been at 60 for 5 weeks and 1 day. I wonder if the positive effects will continue to improve or if I've achieved full therapeutic effects.

Btw, has anyone read Nardil's wikipedia page? First paragraph: "It is typically available in 15 mg tablets and doses usually range from 30-90 mg per day, with 15 mg every day or every other day suggested as a maintenance dose following a successful course of treatment." Can we trust this.. and what exactly is and how long is a "successful course of treatment"?


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> Sounds like me on Nardil. Did your mum have any idea?


I like to think no :smile2:

but I can remember getting the rushes from E whilst doing my best to keep a straight face, she must have thought something was up.


----------



## rm123

WillComp said:


> Hang in there, V1. You'll get your mojo back, I swear!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm at work now so can't type a long post. I need to post more about combatting these side effects. I was late to work cuz I couldn't take a piss. And still can't finish - anorgasmia is killing me. Also, the last 2 days have been cloudy, and I've noticed that hypotension is down when the sun's not so bright. What's up with that? When it's bright and sunny outside, I can't even walk through a parking lot without going blind and feeling like I'm gonna collapse. So many other sides too.
> 
> ... But I wanted to updated on positive benefits.
> 
> Today's a huge marked improvement in mood and relief from anxiety. I think it's the best day yet. I keep feeling better and better, and more confident. And this is one of my non-klonopin days. On k, I never feel this good. I've been talking to strangers and coworkers as confidently as I ever have in my life. What the hell's going on? It's almost too good to be true. If this feeling ever goes away, I'll be one pissed off m'r-f'r.


I've noticed this too, esp when my side effects were much worse at only being on it a few months! I started crying from pain trying to walk up a hill to work during summer and eventually had to just quit bc the heat mixed w the physical demands of my job were too much!

I read on tumblr just yesterday that it's really important to stay hydrated and stay in the shade if you're on antidepressants, bc they can increase your body temperature! Guess that's why some of us have experienced more sweating whilst on Nardil.

So, nothing much you can do except stay hydrated, try & stay cool, sit or lie down if you can if you start to feel dizzy/faint from the sun. A great thing to buy is one of those cooling sprays - they're really cheap & useful for quickly cooling your face and body down!

Look after yourselves this summer!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I like to think no :smile2:
> 
> but I can remember getting the rushes from E whilst doing my best to keep a straight face, she must have thought something was up.


Did she not wonder why all of a sudden you were helpful and caring and kept wanting to give her a hug? lmfao
man the 90's were very good times.
I dropped a pill once to go to the gym. why? just cos I could. Even dropped some speed on the way to work lol.
Man looking back that was some risky business hahaha.

lol @ willcomp if i get that old skool feeling i will be the happiest man alive!!


----------



## V1bzz

rm123 said:


> I've noticed this too, esp when my side effects were much worse at only being on it a few months! I started crying from pain trying to walk up a hill to work during summer and eventually had to just quit bc the heat mixed w the physical demands of my job were too much!
> 
> I read on tumblr just yesterday that it's really important to stay hydrated and stay in the shade if you're on antidepressants, bc they can increase your body temperature! Guess that's why some of us have experienced more sweating whilst on Nardil.
> 
> So, nothing much you can do except stay hydrated, try & stay cool, sit or lie down if you can if you start to feel dizzy/faint from the sun. A great thing to buy is one of those cooling sprays - they're really cheap & useful for quickly cooling your face and body down!
> 
> Look after yourselves this summer!


Reminds me of when i was on escitalopram. I always looked forward to and wanted to go on holiday but on that stuff just the thought of heat was enough to put you off.

Ive noticed on this drug i go from feeling super hot first thing then abit chilly during the day after meds to damn hot in the late evenings and during the night.

Do you guys feel awful in the mornings? this is another thing thats different this time around for me. I'm feeling uber tired in the mornings ad it takes me 30mins or so to get going.
Last time it was boom, up and away!!
Can't complain though, feeling like this in the mornings for a short time is better than feeling hypo all damn day thats for sure!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Did she not wonder why all of a sudden you were helpful and caring and kept wanting to give her a hug? lmfao


Even the power of E wouldnt make me do that !! 

How you feeling ?


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Been at 60 for 5 weeks and 1 day. I wonder if the positive effects will continue to improve or if I've achieved full therapeutic effects.
> 
> Btw, has anyone read Nardil's wikipedia page? First paragraph: "It is typically available in 15 mg tablets and doses usually range from 30-90 mg per day, with 15 mg every day or every other day suggested as a maintenance dose following a successful course of treatment." Can we trust this.. and what exactly is and how long is a "successful course of treatment"?


I've been at 60 mg for more than three months now. My mood got a lot better after a few weeks, and then I felt like I didn't get any further. I wanted to get even better.

After a few weeks of being a bit frustrated, I have noticed myself getting even better over the past couple of weeks. I think it has something to do with the side effects slowly subsiding (no chance of getting back to my normal life unless I can keep awake and move around), and also to do with me feeling better for quite some time now, so that I can finally relax and enjoy it. I have been worried about the medication, the side effects, worried that the effect may wear off, that it might just be a lucky fluke.

So yeah, after 3 months on 60 mg I once again feel progress. I am not even sure I want to ask my doc to increase the dosage any more.

So: I got better after a few weeks on Nardil, then I stayed in one place for a few weeks, and now I am recognizing improvement once again.


----------



## rm123

V1bzz said:


> rm123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed this too, esp when my side effects were much worse at only being on it a few months! I started crying from pain trying to walk up a hill to work during summer and eventually had to just quit bc the heat mixed w the physical demands of my job were too much!
> 
> I read on tumblr just yesterday that it's really important to stay hydrated and stay in the shade if you're on antidepressants, bc they can increase your body temperature! Guess that's why some of us have experienced more sweating whilst on Nardil.
> 
> So, nothing much you can do except stay hydrated, try & stay cool, sit or lie down if you can if you start to feel dizzy/faint from the sun. A great thing to buy is one of those cooling sprays - they're really cheap & useful for quickly cooling your face and body down!
> 
> Look after yourselves this summer!
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of when i was on escitalopram. I always looked forward to and wanted to go on holiday but on that stuff just the thought of heat was enough to put you off.
> 
> Ive noticed on this drug i go from feeling super hot first thing then abit chilly during the day after meds to damn hot in the late evenings and during the night.
> 
> Do you guys feel awful in the mornings? this is another thing thats different this time around for me. I'm feeling uber tired in the mornings ad it takes me 30mins or so to get going.
> Last time it was boom, up and away!!
> Can't complain though, feeling like this in the mornings for a short time is better than feeling hypo all damn day thats for sure!
Click to expand...

My body temp is like that too haha. Constantly taking my jacket on & off, walking w/o it in the rain bc to use my hood I'd need my jacket & im so damn hot! Or it'll be a nice day and I could be freezing haha.

Yea, I feel terrible in the mornings. Have to force myself to get up, take a 15mg pill, maybe an iron pill or some gabapentin, and coffee lol. When I get to my 2nd cup I'm normally feeling good again!


----------



## V1bzz

ok, i wont be using my phone again to reply. I see none of them posted ffs. don't you just hate writing something in detail and losing it??? grrr

@SFC01 im feeling ok mate. I think nardil may have stopped working again, or its no working very much. 3 weeks at 45 tomorrow. I sure do miss those 3 days i had. that was defo nardil working but had nothing since 

my mum guessed i was on drugs back in the day because she said i would come round and stand at the window humming a choon over and over from the night before lol. The my sister dobbed!!

@WillComp. yeah i just sit there and mong for about 30 mins lol. my body is really sore in the mornings and that doesn't help get going. speak to the doctor on the 9th, hopefully she will be able to help me with my legs, like give me a new pair for xmas or summin? or even better, just some advice or meds to help. My knees are gone now, i struggle to squat, it really hurts and i have to push off the ground or pull on something to get up again and it's a real struggle. pot belly is coming back too grrr!

@Tandorini hey and welcome. I've heard that it can take up to a year to feel full benefits. its when you hit that zone that they advise maintenance levels of nardil. I don't think many listen to that nonsense though lol.

Have you ever thought about dropping 15 for 2 or 3 days? I don't know how it works, this nardil is weird stuff but its a good way to kick it up the arse.
I wouldn't rush to 75, the sides up there are not nice! maybe give it a go at 6 months? i've found the key to winning is to take your time with it. I was on it for 3 months and in hell with no positive effects. I dropped down ro 45 from 75/90 and within a week to 10 days nardil kicked in for me for the first time ever. i had 3 days of pure heaven. it's gone now so i'm worried, don't really feel anything, hoping for another kick in soon from the 60


----------



## watertouch

Captainmycaptain said:


> Do you guys think I should ask my general practitioner for a medication to stop the sweating?


You being on Nardil should first try!
Something like Odaban handcream, *yes *handcream on your face at night.
www.odaban.com
(after looking up their products i see that they actually also have a spray that seems to be used on the face)
http://www.odaban.com/products/antiperspirant-spray/
Its like a weaker form of Drysol, Drysol is to strong and will cause redness, itching, burning sensation.

Your GP might wanna do som basic bloodwork to rule out some commen medical conditions that might cause the sweatning. 
*Do that! Specially check for Diabetes.
*focal hyperhidrosis from your face could be a sign of an underlying condition.

*Oxybutynin *, could help for FH (facial hydrosis)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21738960/
*The mouth dryness is just to brutal, *

*I think you should first try:*
glycopyrrolate in 0.5% solution, topical on your face (its also an anticholinergic medicine). might give less side effects compared to Oxybutynin
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12144084
( the above article mentions using the 0.5% "solution" on the face, in case you need to print it out for your Dr.)
It was mentioned in that article below on Facial Hyperhidrosis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857824/
And its noted to have less side effects compared to oral anticholinergics
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001250050677
(i have no idea how the Oxybutynin patch, or long working tablets would work).

Informative article from 2017 about Hyperhidrosis
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1073359-overview


> The temperament and character profile for patients with essential hyperhidrosis has stimulated interest, [12] but data suggest that hyperhidrosis is not related to social phobia or personality disorder.


----------



## V1bzz

Damn the Nardil tiredness has returned for me. Will have to get myself some pro plus again. They helped abit. It's crazy sitting down and nearly falling asleep. While i'm writing this im fighting to keep my eyes open!! 

Guess the 60's kicking in  pretty sure i could feel some very very very very very mild hypotension earlier, hopefully thats the most i get 

Think i'll jump in the shower to wake my *** up!!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @*Tandorini* hey and welcome. I've heard that it can take up to a year to feel full benefits. its when you hit that zone that they advise maintenance levels of nardil. I don't think many listen to that nonsense though lol.
> 
> Have you ever thought about dropping 15 for 2 or 3 days? I don't know how it works, this nardil is weird stuff but its a good way to kick it up the arse.
> I wouldn't rush to 75, the sides up there are not nice! maybe give it a go at 6 months? i've found the key to winning is to take your time with it. I was on it for 3 months and in hell with no positive effects. I dropped down ro 45 from 75/90 and within a week to 10 days nardil kicked in for me for the first time ever. i had 3 days of pure heaven. it's gone now so i'm worried, don't really feel anything, hoping for another kick in soon from the 60


The doc at the hospital talked about a low maintenance dose, but he never said anything about when.

I was at 75 mg for a couple of weeks, I think, and even tried 90 mg four days. I did nothing but sleep, really. It came to a point where the side effects felt so horrible I had to battle with myself for every dose, it felt like I was feeding myself poison. So now that I am finally a bit relieved from the worst, I think I'm gonna stick to 60 mg. After I went from 90 mg to 60 mg it took two weeks for me to get back to where I was before I tried the 90 mg. So I can't really "afford" trying for a few days.

I am at the same time trying to increase my work hours, having been called off sick from work for more than a year. And going back to work goes real bad together with fatigue and OH.

The worst of the OH is over, that's a huge relief. I several times measured my BP at around 55/35 during night time. Now I usually don't drop any lower than 90/60 standing up, which seems to be kind of a limit for me for when I feel physical signs of the OH. It was not uncommon for me to feel a bit lightheaded when getting up before I started Nardil either, it is quite common, at least for women. I didn't have a monitor back then, so I have no idea what the numbers were.

The muscle weakness is still bothering me a lot, but I can function, in some ways. I have to take the elevator and not the stairs, and catch the bus to work instead of walking that mile, but at least I am not stuck in bed sleeping.

And anything is better than being so depressed I was earlier this year. I mean - sleeping for 18 hours a day and spending those 6 hours in the couch, but not crying, is better than being physically well but depressed. I am not joking - I prefer the Nardil side effects. But they do sometimes scare me, they do.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Damn the Nardil tiredness has returned for me. Will have to get myself some pro plus again. They helped abit. It's crazy sitting down and nearly falling asleep. While i'm writing this im fighting to keep my eyes open!!
> 
> Guess the 60's kicking in  pretty sure i could feel some very very very very very mild hypotension earlier, hopefully thats the most i get
> 
> Think i'll jump in the shower to wake my *** up!!


Tell me about it. LOL

For the past 4 or 5 weeks I've been nodding off at work, can't even keep my eyes open. I live with my brother and in the evenings I'll be sitting down watching tv and my bother will be talking to me and all the sudden he'll have to wake me up. My head just dropped and I fell asleep while sitting there.

Oh, and I finally got the head/brain zaps. That's the only way I can describe them. Happened 3 times within 5 min before going to bed.. very intense. Then my brain got stuck in a weird cycle while sleeping last night. I had over 20 moments where I'd suddenly wake up, sometimes jumping in the air, from the same type of 2 second vivid dream over and over throughout the night.

The dreams involved my head smashing into something so hard that I would die (then wake up). Some were head-on collisions in my car so hard that I'd experience all the sounds, sights and sensations of my brain being smashed in and dying. Others were of me falling face first through the air and smashing onto the ground, and the 1 second aftermath of impact. Some of the most vivid dreams I've ever had. Now I know what it's like to die. It was kinda peaceful actually. I wasn't disturbed at all by the dreams.. laughed at one of them. If these continue though, then I might start freaking out. WTF was that all about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Tell me about it. LOL
> 
> For the past 4 or 5 weeks I've been nodding off at work, can't even keep my eyes open. I live with my brother and in the evenings I'll be sitting down watching tv and my bother will be talking to me and all the sudden he'll have to wake me up. My head just dropped and I fell asleep while sitting there.
> 
> Oh, and I finally got the head/brain zaps. That's the only way I can describe them. Happened 3 times within 5 min before going to bed.. very intense. Then my brain got stuck in a weird cycle while sleeping last night. I had over 20 moments where I'd suddenly wake up, sometimes jumping in the air, from the same type of 2 second vivid dream over and over throughout the night.
> 
> The dreams involved my head smashing into something so hard that I would die (then wake up). Some were head-on collisions in my car so hard that I'd experience all the sounds, sights and sensations of my brain being smashed in and dying. Others were of me falling face first through the air and smashing onto the ground, and the 1 second aftermath of impact. Some of the most vivid dreams I've ever had. Now I know what it's like to die. It was kinda peaceful actually. I wasn't disturbed at all by the dreams.. laughed at one of them. If these continue though, then I might start freaking out. WTF was that all about?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL, i shouldn't lol but mine were abit different from that. i was in one of them toy platci car things that kids go about in with the roof. damn hang on, i need to find a pic.....









and i would smash into the corner of a building and jump and twist so violently i would instantly wake and be in pain. same dream too, happened to me twice, same dream. same reaction.

some crazy shizzle thats for sure. nardil is for weirdo's lol, must be the right drug for me 

i'm totally pissed off right now, i missed the call from the doc AGAIN!!!!!!! I really need to f'ing talk to her about these gawd damn legs of mine!
I will now have to go in and try to get her to ring me or get an appointment and wait for 5 weeks to see her.

I'm not gunna say what this situation is because i'm embarrassed by it cos its so stupid but i had to go somewhere today and its a situation which for some reason, i don't know why is a high anxiety thing for me. like pretty high up the list. I dread every time i have to go. so i go and im feeling as i usually do but i guess a little less intense. my head started shocking (new thing on nardil when im in high anxiety situation) and i didnt know how to stand or where to look etc. gets me down when this happens because it makes me think nardil has quit on me again. I had them 3 days but nothing since. I think my only option is that i will have to give it 2 more weeks or so and then drop back down to 45. Those 3 days were the first time i knew what everyone was on about when they talked about nardil feelings, i hoped that was my new life. it felt so fukukin awesome. but alas, here i am.

can you guys remember how you felt at 2 weeks @ 60? I can't compare it to last time because i was so severly ill. were you constantly feeling great once it kicked in, or did you just get a few days then it stoppedfor abit before kicking in again?


----------



## SFC01

thats **** to hear mate @V1bzz - 60mg was good for me but showed some inconsistency in mood which i why I went up to 75mg.

I`ve just started back on 50mg amitriptyline as my elbow is giving me some grief (hope it aint falling apart already!!  ) - will let you know if it adds anything to the nardil like it did before, in case you start looking at adding some other meds into the mix.


----------



## Tandorini

My anxiousness (not SA or anything, just a general anxiety I feel when I am severly depressed) went away after a couple of weeks, I was at 30 mg by then. I just felt a slight improvement all the time, I think. I increased by 15 mg a week up to 60 mg. I still feel my mood getting better after 3 months on it.

I haven't had any of those boosts or anything that other people talk about. I haven't been experimenting much with the dosages either. I wasn't able to at first, as I for the first couple of months only got the exact amount of tablets I was to take. Now I get "normal" prescriptions, but still, Nardil scares me a bit, I don't want to do too much on my own.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> thats **** to hear mate @V1bzz - 60mg was good for me but showed some inconsistency in mood which i why I went up to 75mg.
> 
> I`ve just started back on 50mg amitriptyline as my elbow is giving me some grief (hope it aint falling apart already!!  ) - will let you know if it adds anything to the nardil like it did before, in case you start looking at adding some other meds into the mix.


I just googled it and it says not to take on a maoi, did you know this already?
Im tempted to drop to 45 starting tomorrow and give myself more time there. i moved up quicker than i wanted because i was just too damn horny! lol
I do kinda miss it a little bit now my libido is dead to the world!


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> My anxiousness (not SA or anything, just a general anxiety I feel when I am severly depressed) went away after a couple of weeks, I was at 30 mg by then. I just felt a slight improvement all the time, I think. I increased by 15 mg a week up to 60 mg. I still feel my mood getting better after 3 months on it.
> 
> I haven't had any of those boosts or anything that other people talk about. I haven't been experimenting much with the dosages either. I wasn't able to at first, as I for the first couple of months only got the exact amount of tablets I was to take. Now I get "normal" prescriptions, but still, Nardil scares me a bit, I don't want to do too much on my own.


So it was a progression of feeling more and more better as time went on?
I'm at a loss right now, i want to hold on at 60 because it may kick in again but i also wonder about 45 because i had those nice days there, maybe i upped too quickly again, or maybe 45 is just the sweet spot for me.
so confused by all this because a couple of weeks ago i had been on it 3 months or more and felt nothing but extremely ill every single day. I had a day I couldn't even stand up lol. had to move about on my bum. was so ill that day.

I was so happy that i finally got to feel something but its just gone again :crying:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I just googled it and it says not to take on a maoi, did you know this already?


they said the same about **** loads of speed and coke but they were wrong !!

Amitriptyline is fine with MAOI's, most TCA meds are apart from a couple. I was on it for a good 6 months or so before and no prbs, my pdoc let me have it.


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> I just googled it and it says not to take on a maoi, did you know this already?


You can ! You just have to be careful. From Stahl's Essential:

" •Although generally prohibited, a heroic but potentially dangerous treatment for severely treatment-resistant patients is for an expert to give a tricyclic/tetracyclic antidepressant other than clomipramine simultaneously with an MAO inhibitor for patients who fail to respond to numerous other antidepressants •Use of MAOIs with clomipramine is always prohibited because of the risk of serotonin syndrome and death •Amoxapine may be the preferred trycyclic/ tetracyclic antidepressant to combine with an MAOI in heroic cases due to its theoretically protective 5HT2A antagonist properties "


----------



## neonknight77

Cassoulet94 said:


> You can ! You just have to be careful. From Stahl's Essential:
> 
> " •Although generally prohibited, a heroic but potentially dangerous treatment for severely treatment-resistant patients is for an expert to give a tricyclic/tetracyclic antidepressant other than clomipramine simultaneously with an MAO inhibitor for patients who fail to respond to numerous other antidepressants •Use of MAOIs with clomipramine is always prohibited because of the risk of serotonin syndrome and death •Amoxapine may be the preferred trycyclic/ tetracyclic antidepressant to combine with an MAOI in heroic cases due to its theoretically protective 5HT2A antagonist properties "


What did it say about Imipramine?


----------



## SFC01

imipramine shouldnt be taken either with MAOI, I believe somebody died from that combination but might be wrong


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> So it was a progression of feeling more and more better as time went on?
> I'm at a loss right now, i want to hold on at 60 because it may kick in again but i also wonder about 45 because i had those nice days there, maybe i upped too quickly again, or maybe 45 is just the sweet spot for me.
> so confused by all this because a couple of weeks ago i had been on it 3 months or more and felt nothing but extremely ill every single day. I had a day I couldn't even stand up lol. had to move about on my bum. was so ill that day.
> 
> I was so happy that i finally got to feel something but its just gone again :crying:


Yeah, that's right, it was a progression. Then my mood and physical shape (side effects) didn't improve anymore for maybe 2-3 weeks, and I was a little disappointed, thinking about upping the dose. But then a couple of weeks ago the side effects started subsiding a bit, and that in itself made my mood a bit better. I am able to do more now, like working a few hours a week, and spending time with friends outside the house, not only having them come visit me.

Being severly depressed I wasn't really able to lead a normal life, and even when I got better, I couldn't go back to my normal life, as the fatigue and everything else kept me at home most of the time. Now that the fatigue and OH is a bit better, I can do more stuff. Together with the improvement in my mood I can actually somewhat enjoy it, and I have yet again felt an improvement in my mood. I have been at 60 mg about 3,5 months now (around easter I was at 75-90 mg for about two weeks, but other than that, steady at 60 mg).

I feel I am more my old self again. I have been depressed for nearly three years, I have tried all kinds of meds, and I have been hospitalised several times. I had a failed suicide attempt in February. I am just a different person now, really. And I hope that the side effects will continue to go away, or at least not grow stronger, so that I can gradually do more and more. That gives me a sense of achievement, which in itself will help me move on and get better.

I do have good days and bad days still. But I don't get that sense of hopelessness. I feel more resilient. I know that one bad day doesn't mean I am on my way downhill, and will end up in the hospital again. I just started therapy with a new psychiatrist as well - a therapy method called ISTDP. A few months ago I wouldn't have been able to cope with tough therapy, but I think now I can.

I have up until now only worked for about 6 hours a week (2 hours three days a week), but next week I am going for 4 hours three days. I am actually a little excited about that, wondering how it will make me feel. I hope to get back to work full time soon. A few months ago I couldn't care less.

I really hope (and believe) that you will feel better at Nardil. I don't know what dosage you should be on,but just remember you will have good and bad period on the drug as well. Imagine if you never had a bad day, that would mean the Nardil just shut all of your feelings and emotions off, like being a zombie. The goal must be to get through those bad days without panicing about the following few days, and not let things get to you the way they used to.


----------



## V1bzz

Hmmm will have to look into this. If I ever get to see a doctor again this year, hopefully the new one I think I have a good chance of getting one of these if I explain properly. Obviously she doesn't want me to die though, you know what they are like lmfao.
So cluckin pissed off with myself that I keep missing these phone calls. Damn nardil memory.

can you believe it @SFC01 that I still havent been able to get that referral because of this.
I have an appointment with my old doctor on the 19th, think i'm just gunna have to go! ugh!!

Will pop in today and tell them i need whoever the doctor is on call backs to give me a call.
When your legs get like mine your supposed to see a doctor asap. well, still havent managed and its been close to 8 weeks now.!
It's spreading up my legs now and i'm starting to lose my knees.

When I first told that pnurse about it, it was only in my ankles, he totally ignored it and now its up to my knees.
It's not an ideal look for shorts wear this summer


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Yeah, that's right, it was a progression. Then my mood and physical shape (side effects) didn't improve anymore for maybe 2-3 weeks, and I was a little disappointed, thinking about upping the dose. But then a couple of weeks ago the side effects started subsiding a bit, and that in itself made my mood a bit better. I am able to do more now, like working a few hours a week, and spending time with friends outside the house, not only having them come visit me.
> 
> Being severly depressed I wasn't really able to lead a normal life, and even when I got better, I couldn't go back to my normal life, as the fatigue and everything else kept me at home most of the time. Now that the fatigue and OH is a bit better, I can do more stuff. Together with the improvement in my mood I can actually somewhat enjoy it, and I have yet again felt an improvement in my mood. I have been at 60 mg about 3,5 months now (around easter I was at 75-90 mg for about two weeks, but other than that, steady at 60 mg).
> 
> I feel I am more my old self again. I have been depressed for nearly three years, I have tried all kinds of meds, and I have been hospitalised several times. I had a failed suicide attempt in February. I am just a different person now, really. And I hope that the side effects will continue to go away, or at least not grow stronger, so that I can gradually do more and more. That gives me a sense of achievement, which in itself will help me move on and get better.
> 
> I do have good days and bad days still. But I don't get that sense of hopelessness. I feel more resilient. I know that one bad day doesn't mean I am on my way downhill, and will end up in the hospital again. I just started therapy with a new psychiatrist as well - a therapy method called ISTDP. A few months ago I wouldn't have been able to cope with tough therapy, but I think now I can.
> 
> I have up until now only worked for about 6 hours a week (2 hours three days a week), but next week I am going for 4 hours three days. I am actually a little excited about that, wondering how it will make me feel. I hope to get back to work full time soon. A few months ago I couldn't care less.
> 
> I really hope (and believe) that you will feel better at Nardil. I don't know what dosage you should be on,but just remember you will have good and bad period on the drug as well. Imagine if you never had a bad day, that would mean the Nardil just shut all of your feelings and emotions off, like being a zombie. The goal must be to get through those bad days without panicing about the following few days, and not let things get to you the way they used to.


Sounds like it has done a world of good for you. hope the muscle fatigue passes for you. It really is a pain in the ***.
I was doing 75 3 days a week and 90 4 days a week. All my sides eventually passed also ad I was just left with the fatigue, which is enough all by itself. difference for me though was that I had zero improvement. From the very start I had zero antidepressant affects. It really frustrated me for many man weeks, always writing here 'but shouldnt i be feeling happier at least' etc etc, but no nothing. I was also getting 0% anxiety relief.
I did get some for a short while, no nice feelings but just an ability to communicate and be more myself around people. I guessed at the time I had about 30% anxiety relief. it went though and i was literally back to myself as if i hadn't taken anything. That's when I decided to drop to 45mg 3 weeks ago.

I have 1 hope as I always think that certain side effects are indicators something is changing. I had the head shocks at 45 but then they died down. I figured it was because of the big drop and i was having withdraws. Now though they have returned again at 60mg, think they started again last night after the stress moment and i have had them all day today as soon as i move my head.
I'm hoping, like at 45 it will die and i will feel it working again :nerd:

I really wish i didnt have to hurry from 45, makes me wonder if i broke it again by going too fast. My libido was just crazy though, I think it was even worse than when i was a teenager. I just couldn't handle literally thinking about sex every second I was awake. It was crazy! it was like, if i could explain it, waking up, taking a deep breath and just going phwooooaaaaaar for the whole damn day in one constant breath. (i'm so bad at explaining things lmfao)

Shame I didn't have a girlfriend, sure she would have loved the new me :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Managed to book another call back but for tonight, 3rd time lucky ay 

ffs just realised its a nurse, no f'kin good for me. i need to speak to a doc.


----------



## V1bzz

Ok so after realizing it was a nurse calling me i kinda flipped out a little bit. I don't do flipping out often cos i'm not very good at it. Figured 2 months or whatever it is was enough patience from me about my legs.

I'll keep it short, I went on the website to write a complaint but they only had an option to write a damn letter and send it off to some place. Not good enough so i rang the surgery, explained everything and she put me through to this lady at another surgery who is like a higher upper. She was on holiday lol so i go through to reception and ask to speak to dr unwin, practice manager....he is on holiday. I start venting to the receptionist about how i have been trying to get treatment for my legs and have told the doctor many times and she just flucks me off, told a pnurse who totally ignored it and now i no longer just have sore and swollen feet but sore and swollen legs up to my knees. Also that i cant walk more than 20metres without feeling like i'm going to collapse and in severe pain through out the whole of my legs as if i have just done a speed walk of the london marathon lol.

Funny enough through my ranting and her realizing just how incompetent my doctor is they suddenly had a cancellation and i have a doctors appointment Monday. I said to her, that's all i want, i just want a bloody doctor to give me some help with this, at least look at the damn things ad make sure they aint falling off lol.

I'm not a kick off kinda guy, totally not my personality but damn, this is such a long time now of trying to even just get the things looked at and maybe get abit of help med wise to combat the sheer exhaustion they feel when i walk.

It's listed as a severe side effect for a damn reason with a note saying seek medical advice immediately or whatever.
I remember waiting for a couple of weeks for a call back from my doctor while she looked into the best medication i could take while on nardil, when she rang she spoke nothing about what the whole point of the call was about. I had to say to her...umm did you manage to sort out anything to help me with a reply of 'I didn't get round to it' WTF...surely that isn't the right behaviour from your doctor, she may as well have said i couldnt be arsed or she forgot.

Incompetent piece of sh1t!!

ok sorry, rant over lol


----------



## V1bzz

oh, @SFC01 ... i got the old twitchy eye syndrome going on last couple of days huff


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> oh, @*SFC01* ... i got the old twitchy eye syndrome going on last couple of days huff


twitchy eye sydrome, ****ing helll mate, have you had every side effect on the list so far !!

hope the docs goea well on Monday, make sure you push for that pdoc appointment.

You still taking the aggy ?


----------



## Cassoulet94

neonknight77 said:


> Cassoulet94 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can ! You just have to be careful. From Stahl's Essential:
> 
> " ?Although generally prohibited, a heroic but potentially dangerous treatment for severely treatment-resistant patients is for an expert to give a tricyclic/tetracyclic antidepressant other than clomipramine simultaneously with an MAO inhibitor for patients who fail to respond to numerous other antidepressants ?Use of MAOIs with clomipramine is always prohibited because of the risk of serotonin syndrome and death ?Amoxapine may be the preferred trycyclic/ tetracyclic antidepressant to combine with an MAOI in heroic cases due to its theoretically protective 5HT2A antagonist properties "
> 
> 
> 
> What did it say about Imipramine?
Click to expand...

In the book nothing. Doesn't sound very safe though: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1161396
Anyway as mentionned tca and maoi must be combined under the supervision of a knowledgable doc since it can be risky.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> twitchy eye sydrome, ****ing helll mate, have you had every side effect on the list so far !!
> 
> hope the docs goea well on Monday, make sure you push for that pdoc appointment.
> 
> You still taking the aggy ?


dude you gotta see the size of my legs now, especially my calves. it's beyond funny now even though it cracks me up when i look at them. i've gone from skinny legs to tree trunk legs! lol
can't see a prob getting the referral (I hope) I will insist if there is explaining that they are not qualified to help me and i'm getting pissed off and will start making official complaints.

Yeah finished the 650mg bottle today. may take 2 of the 500mg's now. dunno. oh i have dropped to 45 again. I'm just gunna have to deal with the hornyness haha. am downloading lots of IPTV porn as we speak (kidding).
I think i rushed it, plus im sure the legs unswelled (is this a word?) abit down there. I want to spend a month or two at 45 and just let it do its thing while i get some relief. 45 is where i got those nice days so maybe, just maybe that is my zone. I will never know until I try it properly. I really didn't want to go down but talked myself around because i can just go back up anytime, it's not like my options end if i do.
Going by the side effects I've had ummm every single one of them listed lol, i may have a low tolerance to Nardil. I will never know until I try it properly.

Bring on the raging horn!!! >:grin2:


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> My nephew had it where his arms were always sweating. I used to have it just under one of my arms too.spray on deodorant can sometimes make the sweating much worse. Give a rub on deod a try.
> 
> There's things like this but they are very fookin expensive - https://www.suredeodorant.co.uk/men/men-active-maximum-protection-antiperspirant-deodorant-45ml.html
> 
> Seeing a GP is the best bet I reckon.
> 
> or you guys talking about all over sweatyness?


I do get fairly sweaty throughout my upper body, but the biggest problem is with facial sweating. I met with my GP yesterday. I mentioned Oxybutynin as a possible treatment but she thought that would be a big mistake given all of the side effects. Instead, she prescribed me Drysol 20% which I think is the highest concentration. The reviews of it are mainly for underarm sweating but everyone says that they were completely dry the day after applying it. I just put some on my face and the pain was pretty intense. It felt like a bunch of bees were stinging me. Apparently, this is fairly normal the first couple of times putting it on. I'll try to remember to make an update after a few days. If this stops my facial sweating, it would be a miracle.

I also practically begged my doctor to put me on low dose Accutane (10 mg every other day), but she refused. She said I would need to see a dermatologist for that. If I saw a dermatologist, after the $45 copay, there would be a good chance that the person would not prescribe it since my acne is not severe. If they did prescribe it, I would have to see the dermatologist monthly and get blood tests and I don't have that kind of money to being pay three doctors for copays.I can't believe that even with insurance, I am being charged $45 for a copay. In Japan, it was a $5 copay, $25 to a see a GP without insurance, and $45 to see a psychiatrist without insurance. When I lived in Japan, I ordered Accutane over the internet for next to nothing, since Accutane is not prescribed in Japan. Unfortunately, that website doesn't deliver to the United States. If anyone knows where I can get cheap Accutane, I would really appreciate a private message about it. 10% benzoyl peroxide wash and cream doesn't keep my acne at bay.


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> I do get fairly sweaty throughout my upper body, but the biggest problem is with facial sweating. I met with my GP yesterday. I mentioned Oxybutynin as a possible treatment but she thought that would be a big mistake given all of the side effects. Instead, she prescribed me Drysol 20% which I think is the highest concentration. The reviews of it are mainly for underarm sweating but everyone says that they were completely dry the day after applying it. I just put some on my face and the pain was pretty intense. It felt like a bunch of bees were stinging me. Apparently, this is fairly normal the first couple of times putting it on. I'll try to remember to make an update after a few days. If this stops my facial sweating, it would be a miracle.
> 
> I also practically begged my doctor to put me on low dose Accutane (10 mg every other day), but she refused. She said I would need to see a dermatologist for that. If I saw a dermatologist, after the $45 copay, there would be a good chance that the person would not prescribe it since my acne is not severe. If they did prescribe it, I would have to see the dermatologist monthly and get blood tests and I don't have that kind of money to being pay three doctors for copays.I can't believe that even with insurance, I am being charged $45 for a copay. In Japan, it was a $5 copay, $25 to a see a GP without insurance, and $45 to see a psychiatrist without insurance. When I lived in Japan, I ordered Accutane over the internet for next to nothing, since Accutane is not prescribed in Japan. Unfortunately, that website doesn't deliver to the United States. If anyone knows where I can get cheap Accutane, I would really appreciate a private message about it. 10% benzoyl peroxide wash and cream doesn't keep my acne at bay.


Did you have the acne before the sweating? if not if this stuff stops the sweating your acne should clear abit. made me chucle when you said you put it on your face, i just love how zero fcucks are given with your meds lmfao.

I hear that the best way to get your body used to that sweat stuff is to put it on your balls, honest! >:grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz: Way to stand up for yourself through that phone call, and it got you somewhere too - that's great! It doesn't sound like you get all that much out of Nardil, that really sucks. I don't know enough about it to have any idea on what to recommend on dosages and how much time to give it.

Those shocks in the head that people talk about, would it feel anything like "ice pick headaches"? https://www.migrainesurvival.com/stabbing-headache-or-icepick-headache I get those from time to time ever since I was a kid, long before I was on any medication. I last got it a few weeks after starting Nardil, tho. Ibuprofen takes the pain away for a few hours at a time.

My doctor called me yesterday, appearantly she'd had a meeting with some doctors who know more about Nardil. They all agreed I am not to go above 30+30 mg, and even with that it is up to me whether I want to tolerate the side effects or not. They also agreed that fatigue is a side effect some people get.

It kind of pisses me off, that no one has acknowledged the fatigue to be a Nardil side effect, up until a few weeks ago. I kept telling them while I was in the hospital, that my total lack of energy was new to me, even when I am depressed I get so anxious I cannot just lay in bed. The staff told me that no, this was typical for depression. When I got out I told me psychiatrist that I had this lack of energy that was killing me, and was getting worse. She said it must be because I had been through so much, and at the time was enrolled in a new therapy program. After the therapy program I was feeling even better mentally, but the fatigue was a huge problem. My psychiatrist this time told me that maybe my body was just reacting to getting better after being ill for such a long time.

I went to my GP to have blood tests done to see if something was wrong with me, I measured my BP loads of times to see if that OH was what was bothering me. I thought maybe I had damaged something through my suicide attempt.

Why couldn't they just have F** told me that this was Nardil fatigue from begin with? I would have accepted is as a side effect, hoping it would go away. Instead I was researching and worrying. That pisses me off. But other that than, I have been quite lucky with my doctors. They have been available to me, and given me lots of follow up.

Now I am waiting to see the pscychomotoric I went to earlier. Maybe she has some tricks up her sleave on how to deal with the fatigue and muscle weakness.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> Did you have the acne before the sweating? if not if this stuff stops the sweating your acne should clear abit. made me chucle when you said you put it on your face, i just love how zero fcucks are given with your meds lmfao.
> 
> I hear that the best way to get your body used to that sweat stuff is to put it on your balls, honest! >:grin2:


While I am pretty reckless with how I administer my medicine (I was once forcibly locked into the ICU in Japan and put in diapers for four days after passing out from heat exhaustion, doing a face dive into the pavement and having a seizure that I think was triggered by overheating and sweating from Nardil. It's also possible the paramedics gave me something while in the ambulance while I was unconscious that caused serotonin syndrome), Drysol actually can be put on your face. On the package insert, it even talks about how to apply it to your face. That would be interesting to see if the sweating was partially responsible for the acne. Since age 13 or so, I have always sweat a lot from my face so it is difficult to know if that contributed to the acne later on.


----------



## V1bzz

Well, I have been wondering what these head shocks are all about so thought I would do a test. They remind me of when i would be withdrawing from an ssri. Decided to take 30mg today. 15 at about 07:30 and 1 at lunch time. The head shocks are horrible this evening, really intense, actually making me feel abit travel sick from walking lol.

I knew it, nardil has stopped working for me again. I suppose 3 days is better than nothing :'(

I will go back to 45mg tomorrow and just stay there for a while before giving up, I think it's clear by now that Nardil doesn't have the ability long term to sort the mess out that is called my brain. It's like it keeps teasing me to how i could feel, a feeling of peace, then it goes back to zero relief. I've been in a horrible depressed mood all day, felt like crying at points.

I just don't know what to do any more. I don't want to try anything else. I have put my body through enough of firing all these pills into it for the last 3 yrs to no avail.

I lived with this **** for 15yrs, looks like im just gunna have to deal with it for the rest of my life and never really have a life or be happy. Guess its just the way the cookie crumbles.

My own fault for breaking it so badly in my late teens and early 20's. yeah I have felt it getting stronger and stronger over those yrs, from about the age of 23. I'm 41 now.

Guess my life is just going to be all about thinking everyone is talking about him or laughing at him and never being able to speak to anyone ever again!

little feel sorry for myself over!

****ing pissed off V1bzz OUT!!


----------



## watertouch

^ 
Vibez thats the anxiety talking, i don't think anyone on this forum look or think about you that way!
You seems like a nice and stand up kind of guy!
(yes i know vibez isn't your nick, but i cant recall what you said it was) :smile2::grin2:

Water, over and out!


----------



## V1bzz

I did the ultimate test last night, the one that 100% lets you know if Nardil is working, even though I had no libido, AT ALL, I was able to accomplish what I set out to do, with no trouble what so ever!

I will drop the aggy now, it's possible its having the opposite effect on me from what it is supposed to do.
When I had those nice 3 days, in the build up to it, I knew Nardil was in my system, I could smell it, especially when I went for a #1 or #2...I even could taste. I just knew it was in my system and pretty strongly.

At the moment everything toilet wise is 100% normal with no trouble doing either, no smelly pee or anything. The only thing I have been getting is the head shocks, I now believe that to be withdrawal.

I have taken 3 altogether this morning, see if I get any clue that there is anything actually getting into my system!

How can I be taking something which apparently is not even in my system?

Forgot to say earlier, fixing nardil has taken over my mind today. @watertouch thanks for the comment. much appreciated mate. I will fix this stupid head yet!!


----------



## V1bzz

Ok, by now you all know what i'm like. Yes I was seriously flucked off yesterday but today is a new day and i'm going to crack this and find out whats going on. I aint giving up, flucking piece of sh11t lol.

Ok lets have a look at what i have been taking.

45mg Nardil
4 x protein world fat Metaboliser (dosing with meals)
650mg Agmatine
Vit B complex whenever I remember (1 every 2-5 days)

I dropped 75mg today and feel nothing but the usual head shocks. more proof my body is rejecting this some how before it gets into my system (this is the route im researching today)

Ok so we know too much B vit is not good for nardil but 1 every few days is a good idea (if you so wish)

So it's not the B vit.

The Aggy is literally pure agmatine. However it is manufactured on equipment that processes products containing milk, egg and soy. Possibility as those 3 are on the no no list but doubtful this is affecting me in any way = dead end.

Ok last thing is the fat metaboliser to help combat the nardil pot belly. I'm sick and tired of walking with my stomach tensed lmfao.
So I look at the ingredients and can't believe what I see............Vit B6, Vit B12, L Tyrozine, Choline and a bunch of other stuff that could possibly have interctions with nardil but i couldnt be arsed to look them up :grin2:


Ok so we know too much vit B is not going to help nardil do its job. L tyrozine has big interactions with nardil possible leading to hypertensive shock or whatever its bloody called. Choline, this name is very familiar to me, I researched it's connection to nardil and nootropics.

My memory sucks but its something like Nardil lowers Choline levels as they effect its ability to function and nootropics need choline to work to their full potential.

These fat tablets have so much sh11t in them that just looking i know i shouldn't be taking them with nardil.

I think I have possibly found the culprit that may be supressing nardil medicinal effects.

I'm not done yet though, i'm not happy that is the only thing that is going on and am looking at something that may be the key.
When I know for sure I will post here.

P.s always wish all the time that i could rename this thread. There are alot of people i think could gain so much from reading through this thread but maybe pass it by because of the title.

Nearly 1000 posts , I think we joined the forum and broke records and before all is done I will break this nardil sh11t so it works for every mother flooker.

I may not be the sharpest tool in the box or the brainiest but when it comes to researching and getting to the bottom of something i'm pretty good. I always end up becoming an expert on the subject lmfao.
Last thing i fully researched was Iraq as I wanted and did invest in them. I knew more about them than I did about myself and my country. I packed in following what was going on in country about a year and a half or so ago. I researched it daily for 4 yrs or so. You get to a point that your brain can't take it any more and you need to stop.

right, back to work seeing if i can crack this crap so i can fix my damn self!!


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## V1bzz

Wonder if anyone has dissolved their Nardil in water and taken it before? I'm thinking this will make more of it get into my system?
What do you think? @SFC01 @watertouch

Are nardil slow release even though you get the initial dopamine release after about an hour?

It is possible that I have something similar to *Malabsorption syndrome* and this is why sometimes Nardil gets into my system but most of the time it is rejected.

Only thing I can think of right now, well apart from something that would be very emotional. nardil under the tongue or in cheeks. thats one sure fire way to get this bad boy straight into my system.

I took 75mg of Nardil this morning and i sh1t you not I have had zero anything that lets me know that any of that got into my system. No tired, no farting, absolutely nothing. That's crazy right?

Im now sucking on another 15mg, well it's under my tongue, if nardil farts tasted of something, it would be this.

Impossible for it to not get into my system this way. It's not an ideal way to take my meds but i guess I will just have to get used to it.
Will let you know if i can feel anything in my body today from sucking. they do say suck it and see lol

This is 90mg Nardil I have taken today, crazy that i am feeling nothing!
Last time even though all i had was sides, this dose would have knocked me the fluck out, i would have extreme fatigue.

Honestly I feel nothing, no side effects, nada!
In a good mood though to be fair.
p.s just came back to edit this post and i can feel nardil entering my system yay!!


----------



## V1bzz

Ok I can feel that I have taken some Nardil now.

hmm am I brave enough to do another 3 as that would be my 45 under the tongue?

that would be 135mg today :O

I'm worried the other 75mg randomly kicks in from the under the tongue dose working.
I can defo feel it in my system from under the tongue, Feel it in my eyes at the moment.

Think its prob best for me to leave it now and start afresh tomorrow :smile2:

2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon under the tongue, going to be interesting.

Man I really don't get this. Just from 15mg under the tongue i can feel the tingling start to come back in my fingers and starting to increase on my arms. Thats how i know the nardil is in there is when i have tingley fingers.

anyone else get that? weird sensation.

staying on topic, here's one for @SFC01 ... back in the day my gateway drug to xtc and speed etc was acid lol
I always knew if my acid was going to work every single time after about 20mins or so. With Nardil its the tingly fingers. With acid I used to see a black outline of a panther as if it was leaping through the air. not a moving outline. just a freeze shot. Once I seen that I used to tap my mate and say, its going to be a good night man.

I'm a weird flucker aint I? lol not weird eccentric :laugh:

p.s i can confirm 100% feeling effects from Nardil under the tongue. Feels pretty strong actually. The hand tingling and im also feeling it now all over my body.

Hopefully i've got it cracked for the 3rd time lmfao!!


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> staying on topic, here's one for @*SFC01* ... back in the day my gateway drug to xtc and speed etc was acid lol
> I always knew if my acid was going to work every single time after about 20mins or so. With Nardil its the tingly fingers. With acid I used to see a black outline of a panther as if it was leaping through the air. not a moving outline. just a freeze shot. Once I seen that I used to tap my mate and say, its going to be a good night man.


Gateway drug for me was sniffing tippex :grin2:

No, was actually speed and xtc, then weed, acid, coke with some ketamine thrown in somewhere, oh and plenty of shrooms !

Used to love the initial buzz from speed, that tingly, super confident, excited feeling and those first few rushes from xtc - man I miss that drug. Acid used to take 45 mins for me to work, yes I used to time it  and it would start with nothing specific, just a general ****ing up of everything 

Took acid loads of times but only ever had one unpleasant trip, not bad, but just hoping it wouldnt get more on top - that was when I took it at home alone on a sunday morning (a couple of strawberry tabs) and after a few hours the house started to close in on me, so I went outside and everybody looked really short and squat with mean faces, eyes darting around, sometimes staring at me - had to go back home and jump in bed for a bit  . I remember watching tennis on tv and it was making that old atari game noise - ****ed up !!

Did you ever take those little brown microdot balls ?

Back to nardil, what did that taste like under the tongue ?


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Gateway drug for me was sniffing tippex :grin2:
> 
> No, was actually speed and xtc, then weed, acid, coke with some ketamine thrown in somewhere, oh and plenty of shrooms !
> 
> Used to love the initial buzz from speed, that tingly, super confident, excited feeling and those first few rushes from xtc - man I miss that drug. Acid used to take 45 mins for me to work, yes I used to time it  and it would start with nothing specific, just a general ****ing up of everything
> 
> Took acid loads of times but only ever had one unpleasant trip, not bad, but just hoping it wouldnt get more on top - that was when I took it at home alone on a sunday morning (a couple of strawberry tabs) and after a few hours the house started to close in on me, so I went outside and everybody looked really short and squat with mean faces, eyes darting around, sometimes staring at me - had to go back home and jump in bed for a bit  . I remember watching tennis on tv and it was making that old atari game noise - ****ed up !!
> 
> Did you ever take those little brown microdot balls ?
> 
> Back to nardil, what did that taste like under the tongue ?


Mate I probably did, micro dots sounds very familiar when i think of acid. I took so much of it, loved it. never had a bad trip on it ever. My mate used to always come up and disappear so i would go looking around the club for him. always found him in time in the phone queue waiting to ring home lmfao. He was worse on xtc. The amount of times i had to run like **** to find him just about to finish dialing his mum. used to have to talk him out of it then we would hit the dance floor for the rest of the 12 hrs.
Took this one trip, wish i could remember the name, it was the most intense come up I have ever experienced, i literally felt like my mind was going to explode. remember saying to my mate as i help on to the side of the table for dear life that I had to stop coming up now, i couldnt take it. Had such a great night once it settled down. 
I got so friendly with everyone at the Brunel room in swindon that when i was coming up they used to let me get on the lighting controls and strobe and smoke every fflucker out. really good times. wouldn't change t for the world. 
It was bass (pure speed paste) that broke me. I met a group of new people, started hanging with them, one of them was a speed dealer. hated me at first but then we became good friends which meant i got everything free. we would do it for days, until that day came for me that when i took it, everything was different. It was such a horrible feeling. After a few times of the new feeling i once demanded my friend to take me home and was sneaking about the house with a big blade. I could hear people up in the attic and when i looked i could see the outlines of people in the shadows. I could see people hiding in bushes and moving about outside. it was a living nightmare. I'm so glad nobody came to the house that day, I fear i would have stabbed them. It was not a good place to be and i tried to cut my wrists a couple of times but the knife was too blunt

After that experience I knew that I had to stop and i did. I never went raving again and never seen those friends again. I missed the last few yrs of how the rave scene used to be. I went to get back into it a few years later and everything had changed. Everyone had to wear smart clothes. People wernt being allowed into the house room because they were fat or didn't meet expectations,it had suddenly turned into high brow and all the fun had been taken away.....and the drugs had turned into a pile of crap. I took a pill and was wondering wtf this weak arse nasty crap was. People were taking 10 over a night when i used to do 1 pill and half a gram of speed and be in heaven for 8 hours.

Everything had got legal and commercial, it was no longer about hardcore music lovers and dodgy geezers with bulldogs but about money and people now going because it had suddenly became the cool thing to do. really sicked anus..........right, i could talk about it all day lol.
I wrote a journal type thing back in the day, i would write how the night went and how i was feeling, writing all the crap that went into my head. Few peeps read it yrs later and said i should get it published because it was amazing and deep into the mind of a drug user. I lost that journal some how, gutted cos it' the sort of thing that would be a pleasure to sit down and read 20 yrs later, laughing and smiling remembering good times.

The nardil tastes nasty mate, real nasty but i will get used to it i guess. Joke is i can feel the nardil in my system now, I took 2 under the tongue and 75mg in the stomach. 105mg total and i feel nothing at all from the 75.

That is crazy right?

Looks like I get a third attempt though, I have a feeling, because of how i feel from the two that this time will be the one. Just need to get it back in my system now and look forward to feeling more and more lush days like the 3 i had before. I feel good enough now. tingly. not euphoric or anything but just cool, you know.

Can't wait to do 2 in the morning and two at lunch tomorrow. I think I may have cracked this! :grin2:
You should all give it a try, the nardil is well into my system and i've only taken two 

I was thinking about just dropping two in my tea in the morning but then realised thats going to go in my stomach and prob be rejected, i'll just stick to sucking me thinks. It takes a while and its horrible but very effective 

Wonder if kurdish ever did it under the tongue?


----------



## V1bzz

Man day 1 of sucking Nardil...YUCK!!


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Man day 1 of sucking Nardil...YUCK!!


I would try it but its bad enough taste just swigging it back - report back soon with the effects please :grin2:


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I would try it but its bad enough taste just swigging it back - report back soon with the effects please :grin2:


That starter taste from the coating is the pleasurable part about the whole experience, it gets worse and takes about an hour.

Just been reading that your not supposed to drink smoke or eat when you do meds that way at the same time and for a time after. Fluck that, I need a cuppa tea to sip to help take my mind off it.

Is nardil classes as a slow acting med? if it is im not supposed to be doing it under the tongue because certain chemicals need to be released over time. but wtf can i do if ingesting it is not getting into my system.
75mg and nothing yesterday. Not sure what happened, maybe because my body got so ill last time from nardil it rejected it?
but i got those 3 nice days then started withdrawing again. any ideas wtf is going on here? i'm at a loss to be honest.

Funny thing is, just from the two last night getting into my system, it is now getting harder already to #2 and i had epic fail last night trying to do the thing that came easy the night before.

Hopefully doing it under the tongue it will be more controlled in it's dose. if my body rejects it this way then i guess there is not much else i can do, I would have one last try taking a supplement with the meds that helps absorbsion and then there really is nothing else to try......hmmm just thought, ok, last option is i'll snort it. nardil up the membrane, goes straight to the brain lol


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## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Wonder if anyone has dissolved their Nardil in water and taken it before? I'm thinking this will make more of it get into my system?
> What do you think? @*SFC01* @*watertouch*


You don't really seems to have a problem with absorbtion (you are getting all the side effects). More rapid "onset" might give abit more of a "release" of dopamine and such.

Question here would be if taking Nardil sublingual would bypass "first pass liver metabolism to other active metabolites". see (Baker GB)

But basicly crusing it, disolve it= faster absorbtion. Might cause an more noticable effect of "the pill"....

I chew all my pills (unless its XR/depot), its an whole science how to take a pill 
http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article/Pages/2013/v74n10/v74n1002.aspx

But ehh be carefull! You seems to do ok but for others, taking it sublingual ehh, it could go wrong....


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## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> You don't really seems to have a problem with absorbtion (you are getting all the side effects). More rapid "onset" might give abit more of a "release" of dopamine and such.
> 
> Question here would be if taking Nardil sublingual would bypass "first pass liver metabolism to other active metabolites". see (Baker GB)
> 
> But basicly crusing it, disolve it= faster absorbtion. Might cause an more noticable effect of "the pill"....
> 
> I chew all my pills (unless its XR/depot), its an whole science how to take a pill
> http://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/article/Pages/2013/v74n10/v74n1002.aspx
> 
> But ehh be carefull! You seems to do ok but for others, taking it sublingual ehh, it could go wrong....


How do you mean it could go wrong?
Mate I don't get side effects from nardil anymore, it completely stopped working again. I had withdraw headshocks. I took 75mg in one go yesterday and felt zero effects lol. still cant believe it.
I then took 2 under the tongue a couple of hrs apart and could feel nardil effects.

Today I have had 4 under the tongue and I know it's in there because of the the tingling i get in my fingers.
I honestly think I have had a total withdraw and will need to let it get back into my system again.
I have no side effects now like last time, I don't know what happened, i went from having every side effect to having none. I just still have the swollen legs now.

Seen a new doctor today and it was refreshing, he basically said I am not happy you are on Nardil and not seeing a specialist, I think i shouted 'OMG THANK YOU!!!' in my head at that point. I told him that was my second reason I was there. I threw away a referral a couple of yrs ago, i didnt see it as my doc giving me the best possible help but as her rejecting me because she had got fed up trying all the different meds with me.

He said he couldnt give me anything for the water retention in my legs because the meds lower BP and i'm still recovering from last time when i got really sick. That is my legs get worse I will have to come off Nardil....
Thats not happening if i get it to work. will not mention it again and find a way to cure it myself.
Was really nice sitting there with a doctor and him basically saying exactly the same as me about things. I was worried he was going to pull it at first, i was thinking uh uh, don't go there bro.

So, basically he said, don't see that doctor anymore. here is the name of the Pnurse make an appointment to see him asap and you can get a referral from him or maybe even use him as a middle man between you and a Pdoc.
It has just been really strange since i rang up moaning my @*** off. I got offered a Pnurse appointment for this afternoon but i had literally just returned from the docs and couldn't be arsed to travel back down there again. So I see him next Wednesday.

I seem to be getting the help I am seeking now, all it took was me to say that i was getting p1ssed off at being ignored for so long.

Hopefully this new way will get things going for me again for some relief 

Nardil aren't slow release/time release are they? I actually think its a slower release in my mouth, I don't get that dopamine boost and it takes about an hour or so to fully dissolve. it's only emotional for about the first 30mins haha, intense nasty **** in your mouth wanting to make you gag.


----------



## V1bzz

I'm talking at the moment with 'Ken Gillman, MD. Retired psychiatrist and renowned pharmacologist' in email. I write the email and he replies with a voice recordings. I explained my whole situation about what i have taken and where im at etc etc.

Believe it or not he said to take it sublingually for the next week or two and see how i get on =))))

Also said about taking sertraline with it and to try parnate if i cant get it to work.


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> I'm talking at the moment with 'Ken Gillman, MD. Retired psychiatrist and renowned pharmacologist' in email. I write the email and he replies with a voice recordings. I explained my whole situation about what i have taken and where im at etc etc.
> 
> Believe it or not he said to take it sublingually for the next week or two and see how i get on =))))
> 
> Also said about taking sertraline with it and to try parnate if i cant get it to work.


What, taking sertraline with nardil ?


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## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> What, taking sertraline with nardil ?


Yeah. I've took it on it's own, didn't help. Have seen a few mention here that they take sertraline or gabapentin with Nardil.


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah. I've took it on it's own, didn't help. Have seen a few mention here that they take sertraline or gabapentin with Nardil.


Sertraline with nardil ? doesnt sound like a good idea mate - was it clear on the voice recording that he said sertaline? Gabapentin is fine with nardil as it has no serotonin action but sertraline is obviously an SSRI.

Sure he didn't seroquel or something else?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Sertraline with nardil ? doesnt sound like a good idea mate - was it clear on the voice recording that he said sertaline? Gabapentin is fine with nardil as it has no serotonin action but sertraline is obviously an SSRI.
> 
> Sure he didn't seroquel or something else?


Possible, I will have a listen through a bit later again.

The nardil is getting back into my system again now i'm putting them under my tongue. Feeling pretty tired again in the afternoons. Not a bad thing really as I think i need to catch up on some sleep. was doing 3-4hrs a night for weeks.

I just feel abit off today, abit fed up and depressed, sucks feeling like this.

I'm going to go take a nap.


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> SFC01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sertraline with nardil ? doesnt sound like a good idea mate - was it clear on the voice recording that he said sertaline? Gabapentin is fine with nardil as it has no serotonin action but sertraline is obviously an SSRI.
> 
> Sure he didn't seroquel or something else?
> 
> 
> 
> Possible, I will have a listen through a bit later again.
> 
> The nardil is getting back into my system again now i'm putting them under my tongue. Feeling pretty tired again in the afternoons. Not a bad thing really as I think i need to catch up on some sleep. was doing 3-4hrs a night for weeks.
> 
> I just feel abit off today, abit fed up and depressed, sucks feeling like this.
> 
> I'm going to go take a nap.
Click to expand...

Yep you should double check because mixing a ssri (like sertraline aka zoloft) can give you serotonin syndrom, which is potentialy lethal.

How much time on nardil was necessary for the side effects to appear. I started nardil 15 days ago and I m on 45mg but I don't have SE for now but I think the dose is too low anyway.


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## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> Yep you should double check because mixing a ssri (like sertraline aka zoloft) can give you serotonin syndrom, which is potentialy lethal.
> 
> How much time on nardil was necessary for the side effects to appear. I started nardil 15 days ago and I m on 45mg but I don't have SE for now but I think the dose is too low anyway.


If you have taken your body past that dose already, like up to 75 or whatever and stayed there and let your body get used to it, it will be unlikely for you to experience any side effects now :smile2::yes

Even though my sides eventually passed at 75mg, i noticed that once i had dropped my body hd began to feel more normal, yeah the fatigue goes too!!


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> Possible, I will have a listen through a bit later again.
> 
> The nardil is getting back into my system again now i'm putting them under my tongue. Feeling pretty tired again in the afternoons. Not a bad thing really as I think i need to catch up on some sleep. was doing 3-4hrs a night for weeks.
> 
> I just feel abit off today, abit fed up and depressed, sucks feeling like this.
> 
> I'm going to go take a nap.


I just have to know because I tried taking Nardil last night under my tongue. How the hell do you deal with the taste? Those things barely melt so the taste goes on and on. After two minutes, I gave up and swallowed them.


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## V1bzz

I uploaded the audio for you guys to listen...

*Ken Gillman, MD. Retired psychiatrist and renowned pharmacologist*
clyp.it/5ebtfm5x?token=06a998aaabf762bc25d1fba71ac61c1b

*Reply to my plea for help lol*


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## Shai Hulud

Antihistamines are no problem, if they don't have other mechanism that could be a problem. 
If you can get it, take Doxepin. 
It's the strongest antihistamine and very selective up to 20 mg. 
Try to get capsules. You can open them and take just as much powder as you need


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## V1bzz

My bad he says about a TCA and sertraline. i'm guessing as another option

I need to get on skype really to get better info. haven't used it for years. not sure i'll be able to login lol

If any of you guys are on skype you should add him. he's pretty open to helping people get better


----------



## V1bzz

Captainmycaptain said:


> I just have to know because I tried taking Nardil last night under my tongue. How the hell do you deal with the taste? Those things barely melt so the taste goes on and on. After two minutes, I gave up and swallowed them.


 

Mate it's not ideal i know but i really have no other option now. I swallowed 75mg and had zero effect. Got more effect from sucking just 15! crazy!

It emotional at the start but gets easier once your taste buds settle down. takes about an hour for me, i have to keep moving them cos they seem to burn right into the gum/skin. I go under tongue until i can feel it getting funny then front of teeth in bottom of lip so i look like bubba then each cheek. I also have a mint in my mouth and sip a drink to take the taste away.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Mate it's not ideal i know but i really have no other option now. I swallowed 75mg and had zero effect. Got more effect from sucking just 15! crazy!
> 
> It emotional at the start but gets easier once your taste buds settle down. takes about an hour for me, i have to keep moving them cos they seem to burn right into the gum/skin. I go under tongue until i can feel it getting funny then front of teeth in bottom of lip so i look like bubba then each cheek. I also have a mint in my mouth and sip a drink to take the taste away.


That **** sounds nasty mate, I`ll give it a miss !!

You could always plug it up the arse haha, no tastebuds there :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> That **** sounds nasty mate, I`ll give it a miss !!
> 
> You could always plug it up the arse haha, no tastebuds there :grin2:


 

Ahh that gives me another option, so far i got sucking, sniffing and now rimming >


----------



## V1bzz

<------ Christ look at that fat face!!! Still got the beard, started growing it when i first started nardil, didn't expect to still be waiting for it to work lol.

I seriously need to lose some weight, bit hard though with hippo legs


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## Captainmycaptain

Is it possible to smoke Nardil like crack? Crush it up, put it on a coke can and light it. Another member gave me the idea and says he's going to smoke Rohypnol


----------



## zeusko87

Captainmycaptain said:


> *Is it possible to smoke Nardil like crack?* Crush it up, put it on a coke can and light it. Another member gave me the idea and says he's going to smoke Rohypnol


haha, this is the first time i hear about this


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## zeusko87

I have tried taking Nardil sublingually but after only 5 min it made me so sick that i had to throw up


----------



## V1bzz

smoking it like crack, inserting it up ones anus, sniffing it......we are bad bad people!!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> smoking it like crack, inserting it up ones anus, sniffing it......we are bad bad people!!


Try all 3 at one go and report back please mate


----------



## V1bzz

I can't i spread my dose out these days. should have asked me a couple of weeks ago when i was taking 5 at one go lmfao

1 up the bum
1 in the eye
1 in the mouth
1 up the nose
1 in a pipe

:grin2::lol


----------



## V1bzz

Just took my afternoon two under the tongue. 

I kinda feel like my body maybe starting again as if it hadn't had nardil. The tiredness is starting to return, i'm having earlier nights now and afternoon naps again. I kinda feel lethargic, i'm not as motivated as i was towards the day, i used to feel like the days were too short. Now i'm finding myself to be bored with nothing to do, so i take a nap. 

I do think it is doing something this time. I don't know. I will know better when this fkcu'ed off feeling passes. I have been feeling aggressive and moody and that's totally not me. I've seen others write about them feeling like this when they first started nardil so i guess in a way it's a good sign, also the tiredness and the slow return of feelings of fatigue.

My legs are still bad, my knees really hurt now and i'm unable to squat down and get back up again without alot of pain and the need to push myself off the floor or pull on something.

Swear nardil is turning me into an old man lol

Think this is day 3 sublingually 45mg....damn i've been taking 60. no wonder i have anorgasmia. what a dumbass lol. couldnt wrap my head around that, that will be why mr fatigue is coming back too. arg!!
ok 45mg starting from tomorrow lol. flucks sake!


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> Just took my afternoon two under the tongue.
> 
> I kinda feel like my body maybe starting again as if it hadn't had nardil. The tiredness is starting to return, i'm having earlier nights now and afternoon naps again. I kinda feel lethargic, i'm not as motivated as i was towards the day, i used to feel like the days were too short. Now i'm finding myself to be bored with nothing to do, so i take a nap.
> 
> I do think it is doing something this time. I don't know. I will know better when this fkcu'ed off feeling passes. I have been feeling aggressive and moody and that's totally not me. I've seen others write about them feeling like this when they first started nardil so i guess in a way it's a good sign, also the tiredness and the slow return of feelings of fatigue.
> 
> My legs are still bad, my knees really hurt now and i'm unable to squat down and get back up again without alot of pain and the need to push myself off the floor or pull on something.
> 
> Swear nardil is turning me into an old man lol
> 
> Think this is day 3 sublingually 45mg....damn i've been taking 60. no wonder i have anorgasmia. what a dumbass lol. couldnt wrap my head around that, that will be why mr fatigue is coming back too. arg!!
> ok 45mg starting from tomorrow lol. flucks sake!


I must say I admire you for sticking with nardil despite that ****load of SE. If I had experienced the same I would have quitted long ago.


----------



## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> I must say I admire you for sticking with nardil despite that ****load of SE. If I had experienced the same I would have quitted long ago.


If it was anything but Nardil it would have been in the bin the moment I got hypotension the first time around.
I don't know, something keeps me fighting with this drug, I think my intuition, that thing i should listen to more is telling me to stick with this and get it working. I feel like i'm in a battle, the mind against the body. Body clearly doesn't want me to get well but the mind keeps thinking of different way to go about it. Sublingually may be a winner. 
I don't have many options left now though before I am forced to give up.

Bloody annoyed at myself that I have been taking 60 instead of 45!
@Cassoulet94 I think your BP got lower than mine didn't it? I hit something like 75/47 (off the top of my head)


----------



## V1bzz

@Sweeto @WillComp

How you guys getting on?


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> If it was anything but Nardil it would have been in the bin the moment I got hypotension the first time around.
> I don't know, something keeps me fighting with this drug, I think my intuition, that thing i should listen to more is telling me to stick with this and get it working. I feel like i'm in a battle, the mind against the body. Body clearly doesn't want me to get well but the mind keeps thinking of different way to go about it. Sublingually may be a winner.
> I don't have many options left now though before I am forced to give up.
> 
> Bloody annoyed at myself that I have been taking 60 instead of 45!
> @*Cassoulet94* I think your BP got lower than mine didn't it? I hit something like 75/47 (off the top of my head)


Nahh I think you're confusing me with someone else. I have been taking nardil for only 16 days, 45mg for 9 days. So far my BP hasn't moved but I doubt it will with such a dose. I usually need to take fairly solid dose of AD to feel something, whether SE or positive effects. With parnate at 60mg my BP was very slightly affected. I want to increase to 60mg as soon as I can.

Have you tried parnate ? It didn't help me so much with SA but depression wise it was not bad at all and I could have gone higher. I really had no side effects at all, it's a pretty clean drug. Well I had musle pain for some weeks but that just me, MAOIs do that to me (nardil does to) and I don't think it's very common. Parnate is considered to have significantly fewer side effects than nardil.

Anyway hope the sublingual works for you !


----------



## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> Nahh I think you're confusing me with someone else. I have been taking nardil for only 16 days, 45mg for 9 days. So far my BP hasn't moved but I doubt it will with such a dose. I usually need to take fairly solid dose of AD to feel something, whether SE or positive effects. With parnate at 60mg my BP was very slightly affected. I want to increase to 60mg as soon as I can.
> 
> Have you tried parnate ? It didn't help me so much with SA but depression wise it was not bad at all and I could have gone higher. I really had no side effects at all, it's a pretty clean drug. Well I had musle pain for some weeks but that just me, MAOIs do that to me (nardil does to) and I don't think it's very common. Parnate is considered to have significantly fewer side effects than nardil.
> 
> Anyway hope the sublingual works for you !


Parnate is my next option 

You feeling anything yet from the Nardil. I wouldn't rush up too quickly, I made that mistake and it was side effect hell!
I would let 45mg kick in for at least a month. everyone is different though i guess. it depends how it is affecting you. I never had any positive effects from nardil for nearly 4 months, i had every single side effect listed. it was horrific lol, my doctor wasn't interested either. didn't give a sh11t. was happy to leave me in a mess.

wasn't until i dropped from 75/90 to 45 that it kicked in after about a week. I had 3 days of awesomeness but then it stopped working again. I started to feel head shocks like i did from dropping from a high to low dose. Took me a day do realize that Fkuckk I was withdrawing again. I even tested it out by taking 75g and I had zero anything to let me know i had actually taken anything. I'm so messed up man haha.

I think something is happening sublingually. Far to soon to know for sure though. it's day 4 tomorrow and ive taken the wrong dose for the last two days. so really day two at 45mg tomorrow 

Hoping two weeks from now i'm dancing around my bedroom like i was for those 3 days. was so awesome, it's like the old me was starting to return :grin2:

I get confused easily with the names, damn nardil messes with my memory big time! I'm sometimes writing and i forget common words and names of people I have been speaking to for months in this thread really annoying!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> If it was anything but Nardil it would have been in the bin the moment I got hypotension the first time around.
> I don't know, something keeps me fighting with this drug, I think my intuition, that thing i should listen to more is telling me to stick with this and get it working. I feel like i'm in a battle, the mind against the body. Body clearly doesn't want me to get well but the mind keeps thinking of different way to go about it. Sublingually may be a winner.
> I don't have many options left now though before I am forced to give up.
> 
> Bloody annoyed at myself that I have been taking 60 instead of 45!
> @*Cassoulet94* I think your BP got lower than mine didn't it? I hit something like 75/47 (off the top of my head)


Maybe you're confusing C94 with me? Mine has hit something like 55/37 a couple of times. It's better now, though, allthough it varies from day to day. I have stopped measuring really, but I actually did measure it earlier today. Been at my feet for hours, just finished walking about 30 minutes back from the mall, and I was at 90/60. Sitting/lying down I am usually at 110-120/70-80. At 60 mg now.

At 75 mg I collapsed at the floor not being able to get up for several minutes. I have no idea what my BP was then, when I finally managed to get back to bed I was in no shape to measure it, I just went to sleep.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Maybe you're confusing C94 with me? Mine has hit something like 55/37 a couple of times. It's better now, though, allthough it varies from day to day. I have stopped measuring really, but I actually did measure it earlier today. Been at my feet for hours, just finished walking about 30 minutes back from the mall, and I was at 90/60. Sitting/lying down I am usually at 110-120/70-80. At 60 mg now.
> 
> At 75 mg I collapsed at the floor not being able to get up for several minutes. I have no idea what my BP was then, when I finally managed to get back to bed I was in no shape to measure it, I just went to sleep.


Holy poop poop, 55/37, you must have felt so ill!
I think mine went lower before i started doing my bp checks, i had a day when i couldn't stand up at all, had to move about on my bum like a weirdo lol :grin2:

You feeling any positive effects from nardil yet? I think i can remember now you saying that you are.

It's really weird, because i felt so ill before, the higher the dose the worse. im trying to remember now with bad nardil memory but i think the sides passed at 75, were horrendous at 60. tbh i think that it just stopped doing anything, not that it gave me anything positive anyway.
I got 3 days of awesomeness when i dropped back down to 45mg, had head shocks for about a week then bam, it kicked in for the first time ever. It felt awesome.
It stopped working again after 3 days so am now taking it under my tongue. It is defo getting back into my system again, i've been getting the early afernon extreme tiredness where i struggle to keep my eyes open and the tingles in my fingers and arms are returning :grin2:

Do you take pro plus or anything? it helps.....oh i just remembered. Lucozade sport helps ALOT with the hypotension. I used to drink a bottle as soon as i started getting my first spin outs of the day.

I had to stop taking it though because i have asthma and it was giving me a really sore chest.
Maybe you should give it a go, see if it helps? also now the weather is better chuck on some shades, that helps too. also finding a stable position and closing your eyes.

For a long time i walked about with my eyes closed around the house lol
oh, getting into a squat position really helps it pass quicker too.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Holy poop poop, 55/37, you must have felt so ill!
> I think mine went lower before i started doing my bp checks, i had a day when i couldn't stand up at all, had to move about on my bum like a weirdo lol :grin2:
> 
> You feeling any positive effects from nardil yet? I think i can remember now you saying that you are.
> 
> It's really weird, because i felt so ill before, the higher the dose the worse. im trying to remember now with bad nardil memory but i think the sides passed at 75, were horrendous at 60. tbh i think that it just stopped doing anything, not that it gave me anything positive anyway.
> I got 3 days of awesomeness when i dropped back down to 45mg, had head shocks for about a week then bam, it kicked in for the first time ever. It felt awesome.
> It stopped working again after 3 days so am now taking it under my tongue. It is defo getting back into my system again, i've been getting the early afernon extreme tiredness where i struggle to keep my eyes open and the tingles in my fingers and arms are returning :grin2:
> 
> Do you take pro plus or anything? it helps.....oh i just remembered. Lucozade sport helps ALOT with the hypotension. I used to drink a bottle as soon as i started getting my first spin outs of the day.
> 
> I had to stop taking it though because i have asthma and it was giving me a really sore chest.
> Maybe you should give it a go, see if it helps? also now the weather is better chuck on some shades, that helps too. also finding a stable position and closing your eyes.
> 
> For a long time i walked about with my eyes closed around the house lol
> oh, getting into a squat position really helps it pass quicker too.


Yeah, at that low BP I lost my vision, I just measured it without seeing anything, and had to check the reading several minutes after. 

But the OH really has gotten better. My friends notice it too. The had just become used to me stopping all of a sudden, going all glazy eyed for maybe 10-20 seconds, and then continue whatever I was doing. Full focus on trying not to pass out or fall over. Now I hardly ever do that anymore. Some days are worse than others, though, but even then it's maybe just 5-6 times I get a sudden BP drop. Squatting down certainly makes it better, but I try not to do that in public  I had to do it a few weeks ago getting out of a swimming pool. Was gonna ask the staff a question, and felt my vision fade, and had to squat down in a hurry. I think she nearly hit the panic button, haha.

I remember walking the streets, feeling faint a lot of the time. It's really not that much of a problem anymore.

The first couple of months on 60, and the couple of weeks on 75 mg was the worst. At 75 mg I got down without being able to get up again. At 90 I don't even remember, I just stayed in bed, sleeping.

I've been on so many meds, trying to think of perfect combinations, asking the doctors to let me try this and that. Increasing and decreasing doses, with or without their knowledge. I am so sick and tired of trying stuff now, really. The doctor was quite firm last time too, that 60 mg was enough for now, concidering the side effects. So I'm just gonna be a compliant patient for now. I think experimenting with dosages will only confuse me, it's hard to know what's working and what isn't. Heck, it took two weeks for me to feel back to "normal" after decreasing from 90 to 60 mg. And taking it sub-lingually? Holy crap, I see you guys talking about it. No way I'm doing anything like that. 

We don't get Lucozade over here (Norway). But really, OH isn't a huge problem for me now. I take 200 mg instant release Seroquel at night, and maybe a multivitamin tablet daily. I don't think I want to take any more drugs or supplements. They're quite expensive too, those supplements. Nardil and Seroquel I don't pay for, but anything non-prescription I would have to pay fully for.

I am seing my psychomotoric next week. I will ask her about the fatigue, muscle weakness and twitching. Maybe she has some advice.

My mood is definitely better. I started Nardil while hospitalised following a failed suicide attempt in February. So...yeah, a lot better. I am not a 100 %, but I am getting on quite well, and I'm able to benefit from therapy now. I'm also increasing my working hours, hoping to be back full time within the next few months.


----------



## V1bzz

I don't like to say guys cos I always worry that i'm going to jinx myself but, I think I can feel nardil kicking in. This is the same way as the last time when i got the 3 days. really really tingly hands, I had abit of mania earlier, felt really hyper (but i had moments like that before nardil lol).
Summins going down, that's for sure.


Oh by the way, when you take nardil under the tongue/ in cheeks, it's all you can taste all bloody day!!

Man the tingling in my fingers is intense. I had a couple of trippy visuals moments early on today too.

Ok i'm gunna shut up now cos i dont want to bloody jinx myself!


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Yeah, at that low BP I lost my vision, I just measured it without seeing anything, and had to check the reading several minutes after.
> 
> But the OH really has gotten better. My friends notice it too. The had just become used to me stopping all of a sudden, going all glazy eyed for maybe 10-20 seconds, and then continue whatever I was doing. Full focus on trying not to pass out or fall over. Now I hardly ever do that anymore. Some days are worse than others, though, but even then it's maybe just 5-6 times I get a sudden BP drop. Squatting down certainly makes it better, but I try not to do that in public  I had to do it a few weeks ago getting out of a swimming pool. Was gonna ask the staff a question, and felt my vision fade, and had to squat down in a hurry. I think she nearly hit the panic button, haha.
> 
> I remember walking the streets, feeling faint a lot of the time. It's really not that much of a problem anymore.
> 
> The first couple of months on 60, and the couple of weeks on 75 mg was the worst. At 75 mg I got down without being able to get up again. At 90 I don't even remember, I just stayed in bed, sleeping.
> 
> I've been on so many meds, trying to think of perfect combinations, asking the doctors to let me try this and that. Increasing and decreasing doses, with or without their knowledge. I am so sick and tired of trying stuff now, really. The doctor was quite firm last time too, that 60 mg was enough for now, concidering the side effects. So I'm just gonna be a compliant patient for now. I think experimenting with dosages will only confuse me, it's hard to know what's working and what isn't. Heck, it took two weeks for me to feel back to "normal" after decreasing from 90 to 60 mg. And taking it sub-lingually? Holy crap, I see you guys talking about it. No way I'm doing anything like that.
> 
> We don't get Lucozade over here (Norway). But really, OH isn't a huge problem for me now. I take 200 mg instant release Seroquel at night, and maybe a multivitamin tablet daily. I don't think I want to take any more drugs or supplements. They're quite expensive too, those supplements. Nardil and Seroquel I don't pay for, but anything non-prescription I would have to pay fully for.
> 
> I am seing my psychomotoric next week. I will ask her about the fatigue, muscle weakness and twitching. Maybe she has some advice.
> 
> My mood is definitely better. I started Nardil while hospitalised following a failed suicide attempt in February. So...yeah, a lot better. I am not a 100 %, but I am getting on quite well, and I'm able to benefit from therapy now. I'm also increasing my working hours, hoping to be back full time within the next few months.


Ah yes I remember parts of what you said above now. Do you have gatorade or powerade. thats the same thing, gatorade is the best i would say but it's good its passing for you now. I truly don't miss feeling freezing cold all the bloody time thats for sure.

Yeah i'm sick of taking loads of sh11t now, im just on nardil and just started taking agmatine again. Really do think that stuff helps nardil you know.
I'm not sure there is anything that can be done about the fatigue away from medications. I haven't got it too much now I dropped and started again. I struggled to walk 10 metres without feeling like i was going to collapse last time. I would feel my legs burning just driving the car lmao!!
I feel frustrated because the doctors here seem to ignore my requests for help by taking another med. I don't even feel onfident this pnurse will be any use next wednesday. I seen him once before and he seemed too much in a rush to actually let me speak or listen to what i was saying. I know he won't be able to give me meds. He had to ask the doctor last time and she said no. :serious:
I'm just going to ask him for a referral, i'm sick and tired of useless doctors now.

Made me chuckle about the hypo, i used to walk about half blind with a loud buzzing in my ears, just kinda got used to it after a while lol.


----------



## V1bzz

Man my laptop died on me, finally got it back up and running, lost thousands of pounds worth of software but i have what could be a brand spanking new laptop. Clean install with none of the crap that widows puts on. The laptop is literally empty.

Looks like it will be a fresh start on the music, will see if i can get stuff done with standard plugins and syths n sh11t 

Bit quiet around here, whats everyone up to?


----------



## Tandorini

Aw, that sucks about your laptop, but pretty sweet you got a new one, though.

I've been googling Agmatine. That stuff really works? With the fatigue and muscle weakness, or the general effect of Nardil?

Norway is ridiculously strict about all these supplements and meds that are sold OTC in other countries. I can't get Agmatine here. But I do think that it would be legal for me to order it from within the EU. Do you have a webpage you would recommend?


----------



## V1bzz

oi you lot, im talking to myself here @WillComp @Sweeto @SFC01 @Tandorini 
I literally can't remember anyone elses name right now lol. damn nardil memory is terrible.

how is everyone getting on?


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Aw, that sucks about your laptop, but pretty sweet you got a new one, though.
> 
> I've been googling Agmatine. That stuff really works? With the fatigue and muscle weakness, or the general effect of Nardil?
> 
> Norway is ridiculously strict about all these supplements and meds that are sold OTC in other countries. I can't get Agmatine here. But I do think that it would be legal for me to order it from within the EU. Do you have a webpage you would recommend?


no, its the same laptop, just a completely fresh and new windows on it but without all the crap they add, programs and apps etc.

If your gunna get aggy its quite difficult to get a hold of in Europe. your best bet would be to get Agmatine sulphate powder. what the body builders use.

umm aggy on its own kinda lifts your mood, makes you feel abit more social but it seems to augment medications.

It has got parnate working for one of the testers, it strengthens nardil for another and i'm pretty sure it makes mine more potent also.

I couldn't get nardil to work then suddenly it worked for a few days couple of weeks after starting agmatine (aggy).
Nobosy knows really what it can do, it has a lot of potential though. a few of us have been testing it here - http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/index7.html


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> no, its the same laptop, just a completely fresh and new windows on it but without all the crap they add, programs and apps etc.
> 
> If your gunna get aggy its quite difficult to get a hold of in Europe. your best bet would be to get Agmatine sulphate powder. what the body builders use.
> 
> umm aggy on its own kinda lifts your mood, makes you feel abit more social but it seems to augment medications.
> 
> It has got parnate working for one of the testers, it strengthens nardil for another and i'm pretty sure it makes mine more potent also.
> 
> I couldn't get nardil to work then suddenly it worked for a few days couple of weeks after starting agmatine (aggy).
> Nobosy knows really what it can do, it has a lot of potential though. a few of us have been testing it here - http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/agmatine-testimonials-1993449/index7.html


Hm. Might work then, but if it's dificult to get a hold on, I don't think I'll be bothered  I'm going to Croatia next month - maybe they got it over there?

Yesterday morning I had the slight "lactid acid" feeling from the time I got out of bed. I decided to try ignoring it, and went to my yoga class and spinclass in the morning. I did okay at yoga, but during spin class I couldn't really get my heart beat and breath up. Went home, slept for 90 minutes. Still tired. Decided to catch the bus to the mall, still forcing myself through this fatigue and muscle weakness. Regretted it after getting there - I felt like I couldn't walk anymore. Got home, slept for another 90 minutes. Got up, and my legs felt worse than ever. Lactid acid, tingling, led-like feeling.

Woke up this morning, and it's still bad.

The point of it all was to see if I should/could battle the fatigue and other symptoms. Whether it's really a sign my body needs rest, or whether it will stay the same, no matter what I do. Or maybe even get better. My experience from yesterday was that I definitely should take it more easy on those days. I cancelled today's yoga class, just gonna relax at home, and see if I get any better.

This really sucks - Thursday and Friday I actually did not sleep during the day, for the first time since mid-april. I thought the sides were getting better, and now I'm back to this. It's so frustrating, I love being fit, going to the gym at least four times a week. Now I can't even do enough cardio to maintain it, much less work out with weights and stuff.

(And yeah, I get really frustrated with these things, but it passes once I remember that without Nardil I was stuck in the hospital, definitely not being able to do much.)


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hm. Might work then, but if it's dificult to get a hold on, I don't think I'll be bothered  I'm going to Croatia next month - maybe they got it over there?
> 
> Yesterday morning I had the slight "lactid acid" feeling from the time I got out of bed. I decided to try ignoring it, and went to my yoga class and spinclass in the morning. I did okay at yoga, but during spin class I couldn't really get my heart beat and breath up. Went home, slept for 90 minutes. Still tired. Decided to catch the bus to the mall, still forcing myself through this fatigue and muscle weakness. Regretted it after getting there - I felt like I couldn't walk anymore. Got home, slept for another 90 minutes. Got up, and my legs felt worse than ever. Lactid acid, tingling, led-like feeling.
> 
> Woke up this morning, and it's still bad.
> 
> The point of it all was to see if I should/could battle the fatigue and other symptoms. Whether it's really a sign my body needs rest, or whether it will stay the same, no matter what I do. Or maybe even get better. My experience from yesterday was that I definitely should take it more easy on those days. I cancelled today's yoga class, just gonna relax at home, and see if I get any better.
> 
> This really sucks - Thursday and Friday I actually did not sleep during the day, for the first time since mid-april. I thought the sides were getting better, and now I'm back to this. It's so frustrating, I love being fit, going to the gym at least four times a week. Now I can't even do enough cardio to maintain it, much less work out with weights and stuff.
> 
> (And yeah, I get really frustrated with these things, but it passes once I remember that without Nardil I was stuck in the hospital, definitely not being able to do much.)


I think it will pass, well i bloody hope it does. I don't have it really bad at the moment, just intense enough to let me know that i really need to get my *** back in the gym, I feel so unfit.

Was going to ask @SFC01 if the sides passed because he has been on it over a year but he will just rub it in that he got no sides at all. not one lol

All of my other sides passed after a while when i was at 75/90mg. I think the only thing i was left with was the fatigue and up at that dose it really is bad, just physical exhaustion, muscles burning etc.

I think it will pass though, if the others all go then why not that.

I really do wonder how @WillComp and @Sweeto are getting on?
stupid memory of mine, think it was @WillComp that started again, he stopped because of the exhaustion if im remembering correctly. how you getting on with it this time mate?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Was going to ask @*SFC01* if the sides passed because he has been on it over a year but he will just rub it in that he got no sides at all. not one lol


Sides ? what are they? :grin2:

Got the kids at the moment so will have a read and catch up later !!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I think it will pass, well i bloody hope it does. I don't have it really bad at the moment, just intense enough to let me know that i really need to get my *** back in the gym, I feel so unfit.
> 
> Was going to ask @*SFC01* if the sides passed because he has been on it over a year but he will just rub it in that he got no sides at all. not one lol
> 
> All of my other sides passed after a while when i was at 75/90mg. I think the only thing i was left with was the fatigue and up at that dose it really is bad, just physical exhaustion, muscles burning etc.
> 
> I think it will pass though, if the others all go then why not that.
> 
> I really do wonder how @*WillComp* and @*Sweeto* are getting on?
> stupid memory of mine, think it was @*WillComp* that started again, he stopped because of the exhaustion if im remembering correctly. how you getting on with it this time mate?


It's the fatigue and feel of lactid acid in all my body that's bugging me the most. Gonna loose everything I worked so hard for at the gym for the past few years, if it keeps up like this. Well, I guess not really, as I do walk a lot, and I bike and go to the gym when I have better days. But still. I can't work out as hard as I used to.

Yeah, at 90 mg all I did was sleep. I was up for like an hour at a time, and then going straight back to sleep. My doctors won't let me increase the dosage again after hearing that. Nearly four months on 60 mg now (and in there somwhere a couple of weeks on 75 and 90), the sides should start going away... Wonder how long I'm gonna stick to it if the fatigue persists. Will probably still stay on it, but not really having the good life Nardil could have given me.


----------



## Tandorini

I have no idea whether this page is reliable or not, but: http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/nardil/fatigue/

155 out of 1693 people on Nardil experience fatigues. None reported it as a side effect between 6 months and 5 years on Nardil. So if this page has some truth to it, it should go away after 6 months, but is likely to hit again after 5-10 years.

There are age/gender and more differences.


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> oi you lot, im talking to myself here @*WillComp* @*Sweeto* @*SFC01* @*Tandorini*
> I literally can't remember anyone elses name right now lol. damn nardil memory is terrible.
> 
> how is everyone getting on?


:smile2: Sorry mate, busy with sprogs and enjoying the lovely weather !!

How am I getting on with nardil ? Well you did ask, ****ing great :grin2:
@all on nardil, a lowish dose of TCA's (not clomipramine or imipramine though) works really well with nardil - the 50mg amitriptyline I just started taking for pain has also giving me a great uplift in mood. I think zeusko is taking some as well and I believe its helping him.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> It's the fatigue and feel of lactid acid in all my body that's bugging me the most. Gonna loose everything I worked so hard for at the gym for the past few years, if it keeps up like this. Well, I guess not really, as I do walk a lot, and I bike and go to the gym when I have better days. But still. I can't work out as hard as I used to.
> 
> Yeah, at 90 mg all I did was sleep. I was up for like an hour at a time, and then going straight back to sleep. My doctors won't let me increase the dosage again after hearing that. Nearly four months on 60 mg now (and in there somwhere a couple of weeks on 75 and 90), the sides should start going away... Wonder how long I'm gonna stick to it if the fatigue persists. Will probably still stay on it, but not really having the good life Nardil could have given me.


I think it may have been you that i said this to already, cant remember :grin2: but you should drop down for a few days. give your body and brain a rest then kick it back up. Instead of going up go down. I know it doesn't make sense but it works.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :smile2: Sorry mate, busy with sprogs and enjoying the lovely weather !!
> 
> How am I getting on with nardil ? Well you did ask, ****ing great :grin2:
> @all on nardil, a lowish dose of TCA's (not clomipramine or imipramine though) works really well with nardil - the 50mg amitriptyline I just started taking for pain has also giving me a great uplift in mood. I think zeusko is taking some as well and I believe its helping him.


I'm asking for this on wednesday when i see the pnurse, I know for a fact that i have a better chance of sucking on my left testicle than one of the docs down there giving me something on top of nardil.

The apt i have is for 30 mins so better than the 5 mins i got last time. I will insist if i have to or see it going the wrong way, maybe force the fecker to ring up a pdoc and stop being a damn noob!!
How many friggin months have i been trying to get help with my legs??!!!? lol
Started with just really bad muscle fatigue in my legs, now they are swollen and my knees and ankles have gone! its real embarrassing having to stop at a high curb to think how best to get down it


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'm asking for this on wednesday when i see the pnurse, I know for a fact that i have a better chance of sucking on my left testicle than one of the docs down there giving me something on top of nardil.
> 
> The apt i have is for 30 mins so better than the 5 mins i got last time. I will talk to it if i have to and if i am having trouble and can see it not happening i may insist, if not force the fecker to ring up a pdoc and stop being a damn noob!!
> How many friggin months have i been trying to get help with my legs??!!!? lol
> Started with just really bad muscle fatigue in my legs, now they are swollen and my knees and ankles have gone! its real embarrassing having to stop at a high curb to think how best to get down it


:grin2: you waddling about ?

Might be worth looking on pubmed and printing off some stuff about how its safe for TCA and MAOI together. Docs and uneducated pdocs/nurses will take one look in their med book where it will say its contraindicated and not prescribe it.


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I think it may have been you that i said this to already, cant remember :grin2: but you should drop down for a few days. give your body and brain a rest then kick it back up. Instead of going up go down. I know it doesn't make sense but it works.


 To ease the side effects, or to boost the effect of Nardil?

So muscle weakness for you eventually became badly swollen feet and legs? As in water retention? The doctors won't even give you any diuretics?

So - and extreme long shot here - could the muscle weakness I feel actually be an early sign of water retention, meaning that if I take some diuretics, the muscle weakness would ease? Couldn't hurt to try. I can get my hands on some diuretics, that's no problem. What do you think?


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: you waddling about ?
> 
> Might be worth looking on pubmed and printing off some stuff about how its safe for TCA and MAOI together. Docs and uneducated pdocs/nurses will take one look in their med book where it will say its contraindicated and not prescribe it.


Mate do me a favour and post me some links to the stuff i need. I went on there and didn't know wtf i was doing lmao. even after i searched nardil and amitriptyline.

I'm such a noob at this, not quite doctor noob but noob enough


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> ​ To ease the side effects, or to boost the effect of Nardil?
> 
> So muscle weakness for you eventually became badly swollen feet and legs? As in water retention? The doctors won't even give you any diuretics?
> 
> So - and extreme long shot here - could the muscle weakness I feel actually be an early sign of water retention, meaning that if I take some diuretics, the muscle weakness would ease? Couldn't hurt to try. I can get my hands on some diuretics, that's no problem. What do you think?


It is defo worth a try. Yeah doc won't give me diuretics cos he said they lower blood pressure and after how low it has been which i'm still recovering from (still abit low, not much though) he didn't want to set me back.

You may not get the water retention, it's just i have had every other side effect so my body is working through the 'rare' section now :grin2:

your nardil questions, the answer is both. I have no side effects now at 45, i was really sick even at this dose last time. go read the start of this thread. at 60 i have no sides either, that was horrendous for me last time.
I just feel really unfit now and have the bad legs. The swelling has gone down actually. I walked the other day and was happy with myself that i didn't feel like i was going to collapse through fatigue at all...as i said, i just felt unfit.

Dropping helps with sides and for some weird reason it boost nardils effectiveness. look at me for example. 3 months and no positive effects so i drop down to 45 from 75 3 days a week and 90 4 days a week. go through head shocks from withdrawal then bam, nardil kicked in after 8 or 9 days!! I felt f'ing awesome. I was dancing round my room when i went omg, the old me has returned.


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## V1bzz

Lots and lots of long time nardil users also say to up and down the dose, i think the change in doses help the effectiveness of nardil. Don't ask me why lol.

Has to be something to do with maoi inhibition. once its blocked you can drop the dose to maintenance levels, not 15 though lol, and bump it up and down to suit yourself. drop to 45, if you need a boost for an event 2 days before go up to 60 for a few days.

Nardil is like a high maintenance girlfriend lol


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> It is defo worth a try. Yeah doc won't give me diuretics cos he said they lower blood pressure and after how low it has been which i'm still recovering from (still abit low, not much though) he didn't want to set me back.
> 
> You may not get the water retention, it's just i have had every other side effect so my body is working through the 'rare' section now :grin2:
> 
> your nardil questions, the answer is both. I have no side effects now at 45, i was really sick even at this dose last time. go read the start of this thread. at 60 i have no sides either, that was horrendous for me last time.
> I just feel really unfit now and have the bad legs. The swelling has gone down actually. I walked the other day and was happy with myself that i didn't feel like i was going to collapse through fatigue at all...as i said, i just felt unfit.
> 
> Dropping helps with sides and for some weird reason it boost nardils effectiveness. look at me for example. 3 months and no positive effects so i drop down to 45 from 75 3 days a week and 90 4 days a week. go through head shocks from withdrawal then bam, nardil kicked in after 8 or 9 days!! I felt f'ing awesome. I was dancing round my room when i went omg, the old me has returned.


Hm. I might try playing with the dose a bit, then.

My doc definitely wouldn't give me diuretics, first and foremost because I don't have any water retention. But loads of people are on them, I can easily get a hold of a few just to check them out. But then I remembered about the hypotension, and that it can get worse with diuretics. I was gonna say my OH isn't all that bad at the moment, but appearantly I jinxed it. Went to bed early, but woke up at around 11 pm from some noise outside. I think I must have gone to look out the window, and then all I can remember is screaming in pain. I fell face forward at the worst possible place of my apartment. I must have grabbed a hold of the curtains, as the curtain rod has been bent. I must have hit the radiator with my upper left arm, a massive bruise is forming there. With my right hip I must have hit the dresser, and then my knees and chin as I finally fell to the floor. So...now I'm bruised all over, and need a new curtain rod. Think I'm gonna stay off diuretics for now 

Kept waking up every ten minutes from around 3 am, and eventually gave up and got up at 5.15. This will be a looooong day.

And yeah, the lactic acid feeling is still there. On Saturday I just fought through it, and it got worse. So I did very little on Sunday. I did some very light house work, but apart from that I just watched the telly, read a book and so on. Thought that would help, but no.

I defnitely have a love/hate relationship with this drug.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hm. I might try playing with the dose a bit, then.
> 
> My doc definitely wouldn't give me diuretics, first and foremost because I don't have any water retention. But loads of people are on them, I can easily get a hold of a few just to check them out. But then I remembered about the hypotension, and that it can get worse with diuretics. I was gonna say my OH isn't all that bad at the moment, but appearantly I jinxed it. Went to bed early, but woke up at around 11 pm from some noise outside. I think I must have gone to look out the window, and then all I can remember is screaming in pain. I fell face forward at the worst possible place of my apartment. I must have grabbed a hold of the curtains, as the curtain rod has been bent. I must have hit the radiator with my upper left arm, a massive bruise is forming there. With my right hip I must have hit the dresser, and then my knees and chin as I finally fell to the floor. So...now I'm bruised all over, and need a new curtain rod. Think I'm gonna stay off diuretics for now
> 
> Kept waking up every ten minutes from around 3 am, and eventually gave up and got up at 5.15. This will be a looooong day.
> 
> And yeah, the lactic acid feeling is still there. On Saturday I just fought through it, and it got worse. So I did very little on Sunday. I did some very light house work, but apart from that I just watched the telly, read a book and so on. Thought that would help, but no.
> 
> I defnitely have a love/hate relationship with this drug.


damn, glad your ok, you know what i mean.
You not taking anything for the lactic acid? I get that kind of feeling all the time also but not really strong enough to annoy me. you should be able to get something from your local pharmacy i reckon.

Sucking on nardil isn't too bad now, i'm starting to kinda like it, it's starting to taste like sweets :grin2:

What is OH? am i having a moment?

I sleep awesome on Nardil, it has helped my sleeping problems big time. That IS the only side effect I didn't get


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## V1bzz

I'm having GAD at the moment again in the mornings, sucks.

wonder if @SFC01 still has moments of it in the mornings?
oh stupid me, what's the point of bloody asking lol, Mr no sides and nardil working awesome haha


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> damn, glad your ok, you know what i mean.
> You not taking anything for the lactic acid? I get that kind of feeling all the time also but not really strong enough to annoy me. you should be able to get something from your local pharmacy i reckon.
> 
> Sucking on nardil isn't too bad now, i'm starting to kinda like it, it's starting to taste like sweets :grin2:
> 
> What is OH? am i having a moment?
> 
> I sleep awesome on Nardil, it has helped my sleeping problems big time. That IS the only side effect I didn't get


Well, falling asleep is easier now (helped by Seroquel as well, but I was already on that before I started Nardil), but waking up in the wee hours is starting to bug me.

Nardil is starting tasting like sweets? Well, it's definitely got you high somehow. I can't even bear the smell of my hand after keeping them there for a little while too long (I'm on the refridgerated kind), or the smell of my pee for the first couple of hours after taking them. 

What kinda stuff would help for the lactic acid? It would be awesome if I could get anything OTC. In Norway we hardly get anything OTC though, compared to other countries, so feel free to suggest anything you can think of, and maybe I'll get lucky.

OH: Ortostatic hypotension. Yeah, I think you're having a moment


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Well, falling asleep is easier now (helped by Seroquel as well, but I was already on that before I started Nardil), but waking up in the wee hours is starting to bug me.
> 
> Nardil is starting tasting like sweets? Well, it's definitely got you high somehow. I can't even bear the smell of my hand after keeping them there for a little while too long (I'm on the refridgerated kind), or the smell of my pee for the first couple of hours after taking them.
> 
> What kinda stuff would help for the lactic acid? It would be awesome if I could get anything OTC. In Norway we hardly get anything OTC though, compared to other countries, so feel free to suggest anything you can think of, and maybe I'll get lucky.
> 
> OH: Ortostatic hypotension. Yeah, I think you're having a moment


I know what you mean about the smell of them in your hand. I hate that smell too. I miss having the smelly wee and farts hahaha, cos its a sign that nardil is well and truly in your system, which is a good thing. The smell has gone from me. When I had those 3 awesome days all i could smell was nardil, i swear it was coming out of my pores.

I'm trying something different today, maybe this will help with your lactic acid.
I just got some bicarbonate of soda and some lemon juice from the shop. First i added a teaspoon of bicarb then a squirt of lemon and mixed it up into a paste. Brushed my teeth with it (no longer than 2 mins) then swilled it about my mouth - what this does is it whitens your teeth and cleans plaque and also cleans your mouth and top of throat. I had yellow tongue this morning and now its normal. I was spitting out some weird coloured nasty ****.

Then with the rest of the paste I added to a pint of cold water, added some juice for flavour and am now drinking it - it is the ultimate detoxifying drink and it removes belly fat.
I'm hoping it will sort my body out to accept Nardil better again while also helping me lose the pot belly and get whiter teeth :grin2:

are you on archimedes?


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I know what you mean about the smell of them in your hand. I hate that smell too. I miss having the smelly wee and farts hahaha, cos its a sign that nardil is well and truly in your system, which is a good thing. The smell has gone from me. When I had those 3 awesome days all i could smell was nardil, i swear it was coming out of my pores.
> 
> I'm trying something different today, maybe this will help with your lactic acid.
> I just got some bicarbonate of soda and some lemon juice from the shop. First i added a teaspoon of bicarb then a squirt of lemon and mixed it up into a paste. Brushed my teeth with it (no longer than 2 mins) then swilled it about my mouth - what this does is it whitens your teeth and cleans plaque and also cleans your mouth and top of throat. I had yellow tongue this morning and now its normal. I was spitting out some weird coloured nasty ****.
> 
> Then with the rest of the paste I added to a pint of cold water, added some juice for flavour and am now drinking it - it is the ultimate detoxifying drink and it removes belly fat.
> I'm hoping it will sort my body out to accept Nardil better again while also helping me lose the pot belly and get whiter teeth :grin2:
> 
> are you on archimedes?


Archimedes, yeah.

Wow. Pot belly. Can't wait until that side effect appears. 

Just had an appointment with the psychologist. He told me he's going on nearly four weeks of vacation now, and that he finally has the name of a psychiatrist, but that he will also be going on vacation from now. I asked him who I should talk to if I had any questions regarding Nardil. My GP or the emergency room, was his response. Awesome. He just doesn't understand a thing, does he. First of all they wouldn't know **** about Nardil. Second of all, they wouldn't have either the insight to my history, nor the competence to, know how important it is to have me stay on Nardil, and therefore concider other drugs to add on, rather than just reducing Nardil. I can ensure you, if I went to the ER tonight, and told them about my fatigue, and showed them the bruises from my latest OH, they would make me come off it. Which would be catastrophical if you look at how far I've come on Nardil.

So this sucks. I said a couple of days ago that I was gonna be a compliant patient and stick to what the doctor said for now. But guess what, there is no doc at the moment. So now I'm in charge.

The psychologist said that for emergencies I would have to go to my GP or the ER anyways, that the psychiatrist has at least a two week waiting list when I call. But that wasn't it with the other doctor's I've had at that clinic. I could always call them. Maybe not see them, but they would be available. This sucks. All of a sudden I've got a lot less support and help than what I've had before.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Archimedes, yeah.
> 
> Wow. Pot belly. Can't wait until that side effect appears.
> 
> Just had an appointment with the psychologist. He told me he's going on nearly four weeks of vacation now, and that he finally has the name of a psychiatrist, but that he will also be going on vacation from now. I asked him who I should talk to if I had any questions regarding Nardil. My GP or the emergency room, was his response. Awesome. He just doesn't understand a thing, does he. First of all they wouldn't know **** about Nardil. Second of all, they wouldn't have either the insight to my history, nor the competence to, know how important it is to have me stay on Nardil, and therefore concider other drugs to add on, rather than just reducing Nardil. I can ensure you, if I went to the ER tonight, and told them about my fatigue, and showed them the bruises from my latest OH, they would make me come off it. Which would be catastrophical if you look at how far I've come on Nardil.
> .
> So this sucks. I said a couple of days ago that I was gonna be a compliant patient and stick to what the doctor said for now. But guess what, there is no doc at the moment. So now I'm in charge.
> 
> The psychologist said that for emergencies I would have to go to my GP or the ER anyways, that the psychiatrist has at least a two week waiting list when I call. But that wasn't it with the other doctor's I've had at that clinic. I could always call them. Maybe not see them, but they would be available. This sucks. All of a sudden I've got a lot less support and help than what I've had before.


Just don't go collapsing on us any more!!
May be a good time to drop to 45 for abit? how long you been @ 60 again?
I've been 8 or 9 days at 45 so went to 60 today. I think it is working, I don't feel any different though, like how i felt for those 3 days. It is moderately helping with social situations, long way to go though, looking forward to being able to talk and sound like me and not some freak who speaks really weird or goes completely blank (which i did today grr).

You do still have support, better support than any doctor can give. The people here on this forum. I had no support from my doctor or anyone else. I got through **** on my own and by talking with people here.

You will be ok, may be a good thing for you to learn that you can cope without them. just let us know here if your going funny on us and we'll talk you out of that nonsense


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## V1bzz

30°C/86ºF here today, i wonder how it would have helped my hypo-tension last time. I always felt damn cold!

@SFC01 mate is she doesn't go for that drug your on do you have any other suggestions? don't really fancy.......brain block......thinking thinking..................damn it, am having to google 'antidepressants' hahaha.......on wiki......damn i just remembered without using it, popped into my head! lol.....gabapentin again. I tried to OD on that. Only time it worked for me was the next day. had no anxiety but also couldnt walk in a straight line lol...or maybe it will be completely different with Nardil..... Actually, no, I don't want to go on that again.
I need something to help with my sore ankles, knees and lower back (in mornings) but would be good if it helped with depression/anxiety too.

I write this feeling they won't even think about giving me something with nardil. Have had zero help from these feckers. I even told the pnurse who i'm seeing on wednesday that i needed something and he was just too busy to care or actually let me finish what i was saying.

May write the local paper about this one day because its pretty disgusting care isnt it?
@Tandorini - I have to wait for around 5-6 weeks to see my doctor, yeah a normal gp, 5-6 damn weeks.
by the time i get to see them a minor thing is now a major thing you know. that's why i kicked off recently. I told them months ago my feet were swelling when i had a 5 min apt with the pnurse, he didn't give a **** and it went over his head. I have not been able to see a doctor since last monday, it took me kicking off to get seen. at that point the sore feet was big fat michelin man legs hahaha, even the doctor said omg lol my loose fitting jeans were now skinny jeans lmao


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## V1bzz

Damn it, i'm pretty sure I just had some hypotension, very mild but a very familiar feeling. I guess the 45 is kicking in 
Least i know its working in my system sublingually 

My mood is stuck between pissed off and happy cos 1 sucks but it means the other is working yay


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> 30°C/86ºF here today, i wonder how it would have helped my hypo-tension last time. I always felt damn cold!
> 
> I write this feeling they won't even think about giving me something with nardil. Have had zero help from these feckers. I even told the pnurse who i'm seeing on wednesday that i needed something and he was just too busy to care or actually let me finish what i was saying.
> 
> May write the local paper about this one day because its pretty disgusting care isnt it?
> @*Tandorini* - I have to wait for around 5-6 weeks to see my doctor, yeah a normal gp, 5-6 damn weeks.
> by the time i get to see them a minor thing is now a major thing you know. that's why i kicked off recently. I told them months ago my feet were swelling when i had a 5 min apt with the pnurse, he didn't give a **** and it went over his head. I have not been able to see a doctor since last monday, it took me kicking off to get seen. at that point the sore feet was big fat michelin man legs hahaha, even the doctor said omg lol my loose fitting jeans were now skinny jeans lmao


Thanks for you support.  Might hang out in this forum a bit from now on. I texted a friend yesterday about all this, so she came over last night, that also helped a lot. She knows how I get when I'm down, that I always feel an urgent need to change medications and treatment. She says she's gonna keep an eye on me from now on. 

I really am lucky with the health care I am provided. It's just that there are a lot of changes at the moment, my psychologist and psychiatrist at the psychiatric hospital's out patient clinic both got transferred to other wards at approx. the same time. The new psychologist seems great at what he does, but he doesn't seem to work together with doctor's and the rest of the staff to the degree that my old psychologist was. Then again - she must have been one of a kind, always talking to people for me, offering me psychomotoric therapy without me having requested it, and she is also the one who picked the new psychologist for me, instead of just putting me back in the system waiting for a random one to appear. Other patients I have been talking to are a lot less satisfied. So I guess I've been a bit "spoiled". Two weeks to wait for a psychiatrist isn't much, but the old one, I could call during office hours if I had a question. I only called her like once or twice in the year I had her, but still, it's good to have someone to contact.

My GP is absolutely amazing. He has followed me through everything, but of course doesn't know anything about Nardil. He doesn't want to take responsibility for my medication. Not only does the hospital have more skills at this, but also, he can't mess with what the specialists have prescribed for me, unless they say it's okay. My GP has actually given me his private cell number, and said I can call him anytime. I have never done so, but it's really nice of him, and I know I've got that as a final resolution. Last summer I was doing pretty bad, and I told him I would never seek help in the ER for a psychiatric condition, you never know what doctor you'll meet, and they are always so busy. My GP was going on vacation, but told me that if I felt I needed to be admitted to the hospital, I could call him, and he would call them and give them my history from what he remembered. That's pretty great.

My GP only has patients three days a week, as he teaches twice a week. But there are five doctors at that clinic, and if I call early in the morning with an acute problem, I always get an appointment the same day, allthough I might have to see a different doctor. If the situation isn't an emergency I will have to wait anywhere from one to four weeks.

So yeah, I can't really complain. But losing what I had still feels bad, and I feel very insecure not even having met the new psychiatrist. So I don't know if I will get along with him. I just want to get that first appointment out of the way, and ask him what I am to do with questions that appear regarding Nardil.

Totally off topic: Trying to change my focus yesterday I was gonna watch some downloaded TV series, and I connected my Verbatim back up drive to my Samsung Smart TV, to see if the files would appear there. They wouldn't, so I plugged it back into my Macbook air to transfer them to the USB stick I usually use. Now my mac won't even recognice it. It flashes blue, but it doesn't appear in Finder. I've tried switching ports, restarting the mac a couple of times, plugging it in and out heaps of times, but nope. Anyone got a clue? I've got all my backup on that portable disc :/ (Might as well send me a pm so we don't disrupt this thread too much)


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## SFC01

V1bzz;1090012113
@[B said:


> SFC01[/B] mate is she doesn't go for that drug your on do you have any other suggestions? don't really fancy.......brain block......thinking thinking..................damn it, am having to google 'antidepressants' hahaha.......on wiki......damn i just remembered without using it, popped into my head! lol.....gabapentin again. I tried to OD on that. Only time it worked for me was the next day. had no anxiety but also couldnt walk in a straight line lol...or maybe it will be completely different with Nardil..... Actually, no, I don't want to go on that again.
> I need something to help with my sore ankles, knees and lower back (in mornings) but would be good if it helped with depression/anxiety too.


So I take amitriptyline for my elbow pain and if she doesn't go for that one, then maybe ask for nortriptlyine instead - they are very similar, in fact Amit converts into Nort in the body. They both help pain so you could use your sore joints etc for a reaons to take it. For amirtrityline you would only need to ask for say 30mg - I`m on 50mg but to start with ask for something lower.

The other suggestion was lyrica, which you have tried before I think ? Again it helps with pain and anxiety but nothing for depression but the reason I mentioned that one is that when I started nardil, I was taking lyrica and (i have to say it) got no sides - probably has nothing to do with it but maybe worth a try again.


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## V1bzz

Update on me and where im at. Bet you all thing christ he likes the sound of his own voice lol. This is really the only way i can talk like me. in real life it aint happening yet.

So i'm on 3rd try because my body rejected nardil for some reason and i think i pretty much totally withdrew from it.
This time i'm taking it sublingually, it was pretty emotional at first but now it's nothing to me, there's actually a point in the process of dissolving that i think it tasted pretty nice LOL. I tried snorting one the other day but it got stuck in my nostril, my memory is so bad i forgot to crush it first...kidding!!! story for ya, i done that with kalms once lol.

ok so itook 45mg for about 7-9 days sublingually, now im on day 2 of 60mg taken the same way. as from yesterday i can officially say that it must be getting into my system this way because i am starting to get some sides again booo!!
That weird tiredness is back, you know the one where if you sit down or relax the battle begins to keep your eyes open, it's intense sh11t man. really don't like it at all but hey ho..
I can feel that the hypotension is coming back, i can feel it in my eye balls. I hope that makes sense to someone hahaha.
I had a mild hypo moment last night....just a quick thought, why don't i call nardil nardy? anyhoo, yeah, also had a couple of very mild moments today where my vision went slightly funny and i got the noise in my ears. it's usually a buzzing in my ears, i think Nardy  does it to p1ss me off because since 2007 i have had ringing in my ears so would only notice a buzzing, not the normal noise as its already there lol.

I think the 45mg started to kick in yesterday. I had a couple of moments where i reacted normally and not how i would, i just cracked up at something and made a comment to someone in the shop and no way i would usually do that med free, uh uh. I would have to think first for 10minutes about what i'm going to say, make it become super uncomfotable then say it and fluck it up and say it with mouse voice.

So thats where i'm at, if your having trouble with getting nardil to work, my advice would be to give it one last shot and whack it under the tongue and suck it and see (see what i did there  )

oh i can tell the fatigue is returning, it could be the heat we are currently having in the uk though. it been hot, damn hot!!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> So I take amitriptyline for my elbow pain and if she doesn't go for that one, then maybe ask for nortriptlyine instead - they are very similar, in fact Amit converts into Nort in the body. They both help pain so you could use your sore joints etc for a reaons to take it. For amirtrityline you would only need to ask for say 30mg - I`m on 50mg but to start with ask for something lower.
> 
> The other suggestion was lyrica, which you have tried before I think ? Again it helps with pain and anxiety but nothing for depression but the reason I mentioned that one is that when I started nardil, I was taking lyrica and (i have to say it) got no sides - probably has nothing to do with it but maybe worth a try again.


Cheers mate. I'm just printing off some info in a moment for tomorrow. I will ask for that one too. yeah I tried to overdose on pregab so don't really want to go there again. That drug was terrible for making me feel unmotivated and fatigued all day...and sleep a sh11t load.
I worked at a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center for abit and most of the residents were on that sh11t lol

I had a moment while driving the car today. i'm finding nardil is feckin with my memory really badly, short term, long term, recall. so i was driving and just for a moment i kinda forgot how to drive lmfao. i wasnt sure which peddles my feet were on and i was unsure if there was two or 3. hope that doesnt happen too often hahaha. can you imagine forgetting what the steering wheel does


----------



## SFC01

Icantgetoutofmyhouse1 said:


> Doesn't Lyrica affect serotonin. I notice my brain zaps (from ssri withdrawal) goes away if I take lyrica. I dont think its a good med to mess with?


no it doesn't touch serotonin at all, not that I have read anywhere in the studies on pubmed etc - i never noticed any brain zaps at all.

I used to mess with lyrica a lot, like 1500mg plus sometimes and found it no problem and I quit cold turkey with no problems either.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Cheers mate. I'm just printing off some info in a moment for tomorrow. I will ask for that one too. yeah I tried to overdose on pregab so don't really want to go there again. That drug was terrible for making me feel unmotivated and fatigued all day...and sleep a sh11t load.
> I worked at a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center for abit and most of the residents were on that sh11t lol
> 
> I had a moment while driving the car today. i'm finding nardil is feckin with my memory really badly, short term, long term, recall. so i was driving and just for a moment i kinda forgot how to drive lmfao. i wasnt sure which peddles my feet were on and i was unsure if there was two or 3. hope that doesnt happen too often hahaha. can you imagine forgetting what the steering wheel does


Good luck tomorrow mate, hope you get what you need, if not you can tell your doc to give me a call and I`ll set her straight !! :grin2:

Thats strange re the memory loss, has anyone else complained about that on this thread ? Maybe you are just getting on a bit :grin2:


----------



## watertouch

Do you guys have morning wood on Nardil?


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Do you guys have morning wood on Nardil?


You perv :grin2: mind your own business !!

Yeah i do mate, but its a bit of waste as my arm really doesnt feel in the mood at that time of the morning, bit like my ex missus !!


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> You perv :grin2: mind your own business !!


Haha yes, have we not met! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Do you guys have morning wood on Nardil?





SFC01 said:


> You perv :grin2: mind your own business !!
> 
> Yeah i do mate, but its a bit of waste as my arm really doesnt feel in the mood at that time of the morning, bit like my ex missus !!





watertouch said:


> Haha yes, have we not met! :grin2:


What is it with you and the damn morning wood?? 

Man, good way to start the day with a good ole laugh, had me in stitches :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Haha yes, have we not met! :grin2:





watertouch said:


> Do you guys have morning wood on Nardil?


I dare you, no, double dare you to go around all the threads just posting that one question!! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Ok so had an appointment with pnurse today, triedto get other meds to go with nardil to help with my sore legs and this crazy falling askeep sh11t.....walked out empty handed again, what a bloody surprise lol
I said to the pnurse that this isn't working out and how does he feel about being a middle man for me with a pdoc, he agreed and to be fair he's been on it 100% for me today.

In only a few hours he has spoken to a pdoc and discussed my case, she says I need to get a health check up with a doctor before she can medicate me. So he made me an appointment for this friday, unfortunately I can't make it, typical isn't it? haha.
So he got off the line, rings me back and i have an appointment on the 3rd of july. I didn't have the heart to tell him i can't make that date either. I will have to try and work something out for that, i'm actually holding myself back now. Fair play to the pdoc, he has changed my opinion of him today.

@SFC01 this is the track I was working on before the laptop died - https://clyp.it/stf131bw?token=237acfad2573352fd1e7e0b7a3f3e322
Was nearly finished too, just had sfx and some mixing to do.

It's lost forever now as I managed to save my laptop but my external hard drive where i had all my samples for safe keeping bloody died too. unfixable. =(

Can't just make it again either, doesn't work like that. oh well, moving on...


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I dare you, no, double dare you to go around all the threads just posting that one question!! :grin2:


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I dare you, no, double dare you to go around all the threads just posting that one question!! :grin2:


I guess i might have to, i have made like 2 threads in the forum over the years about this...

Its not like i can PM people or write to them over the *chat* saying something like: Hey buddy! Morning wood on Nardil?
*That would just be wrong and weird...*  :grin2:

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/maoi-no-rem-sleep-morning-wood-yes-no-1252169/


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


>


 

I need to be tagged in every post :grin2:tag us all, we all need the laugh >


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> I guess i might have to, i have made like 2 threads in the forum over the years about this...
> 
> Its not like i can PM people or write to them over the *chat* saying something like: Hey buddy! Morning wood on Nardil?
> *That would just be wrong and weird...*  :grin2:
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/maoi-no-rem-sleep-morning-wood-yes-no-1252169/


No, NO, that would be brilliant!! :grin2::grin2:>


----------



## Tandorini

I went to see the psychomotoric today, that was quite useful. She is a physical therapist with further education in psychology, and links between the body and mind, or whatever. She works at the psychiatric clinic I go to.

I told her about the fatigue, and asked her advice on it. So far I've been trying different approaches, like just resting, or trying to battle through it, doing stuff even if I don't really have the energy. She says that when I suffer from fatigue I should listen to my body and rest. Not trying to "wake up" my body in any way. She also pointed out that on the days I feel energetic, where the fatigue isn't bothering me, I should also take it easy. Not burn myself out doing everything just because I can. I have definitely been doing that. Working out, visiting friends, doing groceries, housework, as it feels great being energetic, and also because I might be behind on those things due to the other days where I haven't been able to do much.

Makes sense in a way, but it's good to hear it from someone who (should) know what they're talking about.

Anyway, about the lactic acid. She understood what I was talking about. I have been going to her earlier, before I started Nardil. She knows what my muscles usually feel like. She is used to me having pains here and there from working out too hard, but other than that she knows I don't have any muscle or joint pains in general. Today she worked her way over most of my body, feeling my muscles, giving me a light massage. We were both surprised. Almost everywhere, I was tender. I jumped several times as she ran her hands over the muscles of my legs and thighs, and again when she reached me upper back and neck. That has never happened before. 

Before Nardil, I was very tense. I struggled with anxiousness related to the depression. I worked with the psychomotoric to find ways to relax, and I started doing yoga. But even though I was quite tense, it was mostly in my neck and jaw the muscle would be sore. Now I never feel anxious. I told her I feel relaxed. But my muscles tell a different story.

She said it must be that my body is more tense now, but that I don't notice it. And that if I work my muscles so much that I get sore all over, it might not be such and odd thing, that I have the feeling of lactic acid so much of the time. I am seing her next week. I think the focus will be on light massage and relaxation tecniques. I don't feel tense, but I will still try those tecniques, maybe it will work.

I got my hopes up today. That maybe there is something I can do about some of the side effects I am experiencing. I know a lot of you guys are struggling with the same. What do you think?


----------



## watertouch

Have any of you had any bloodwork done?

If such, could you take a picture of it, open it in paint and cover/black out any names or personal info. then upload it to something like www.imgur.com and link it to me in a PM...


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I went to see the psychomotoric today, that was quite useful. She is a physical therapist with further education in psychology, and links between the body and mind, or whatever. She works at the psychiatric clinic I go to.
> 
> I told her about the fatigue, and asked her advice on it. So far I've been trying different approaches, like just resting, or trying to battle through it, doing stuff even if I don't really have the energy. She says that when I suffer from fatigue I should listen to my body and rest. Not trying to "wake up" my body in any way. She also pointed out that on the days I feel energetic, where the fatigue isn't bothering me, I should also take it easy. Not burn myself out doing everything just because I can. I have definitely been doing that. Working out, visiting friends, doing groceries, housework, as it feels great being energetic, and also because I might be behind on those things due to the other days where I haven't been able to do much.
> 
> Makes sense in a way, but it's good to hear it from someone who (should) know what they're talking about.
> 
> Anyway, about the lactic acid. She understood what I was talking about. I have been going to her earlier, before I started Nardil. She knows what my muscles usually feel like. She is used to me having pains here and there from working out too hard, but other than that she knows I don't have any muscle or joint pains in general. Today she worked her way over most of my body, feeling my muscles, giving me a light massage. We were both surprised. Almost everywhere, I was tender. I jumped several times as she ran her hands over the muscles of my legs and thighs, and again when she reached me upper back and neck. That has never happened before.
> 
> Before Nardil, I was very tense. I struggled with anxiousness related to the depression. I worked with the psychomotoric to find ways to relax, and I started doing yoga. But even though I was quite tense, it was mostly in my neck and jaw the muscle would be sore. Now I never feel anxious. I told her I feel relaxed. But my muscles tell a different story.
> 
> She said it must be that my body is more tense now, but that I don't notice it. And that if I work my muscles so much that I get sore all over, it might not be such and odd thing, that I have the feeling of lactic acid so much of the time. I am seing her next week. I think the focus will be on light massage and relaxation tecniques. I don't feel tense, but I will still try those tecniques, maybe it will work.
> 
> I got my hopes up today. That maybe there is something I can do about some of the side effects I am experiencing. I know a lot of you guys are struggling with the same. What do you think?


She sounds like she knows her stuff. I did actually listen to my body today when it was forcing me to sleep, I went to sleep. Don't feel so tired now. the fatigue is killing me again already. I have just been looking at stools for the shower hahaha. omg what has gone wrong!!!

So how did she say to combat the fatigue? just to rest? thing is though the strong tiredness that comes on is not a natural decision by the body, it's nardil. I have work tomorrow and it's going to be tough, i'm hoping because i'm working i don't notice it as much. So far I don't have the lactic acid thing back, I feel for you because its bloody horrible feeling like you just ran a marathon just from walking 10 metres. It does pass though, think close to 4 months for me, hmm you guys know my memory is bad on nardil. that may have been the hypotension. I think I still had the lactic sh11t.

There's gotta be a cure for that, we just need to find it. Resting is the right answer i think from that lady but thing is you cant bloody rest for 3 months lol, I already got moobs and fat little belly after being toned my whole life. I had a six pack before I went on to mirtazapine, man that sh11t has junk food cravings worse than smoking weed. I've gone off track i think lol.

I was going to buy guarana today but it is listed as a severe interaction with nardil ffs
I think im going to give these a try...
https://store.mindnutrition.com/formulas/9-ultra-caffeine








@watertouch @SFC01 is L-theanine and inositol and actually that much caffeine ok to take with Nardil?


----------



## Shai Hulud

watertouch said:


> Have any of you had any bloodwork done?
> 
> If such, could you take a picture of it, open it in paint and cover/black out any names or personal info. then upload it to something like www.imgur.com and link it to me in a PM...


I'd be interested in that, too. What are you thinking it could be?

Two things coming to my mind:
1) PLP deficiency. Not necessarily because there's not enough B6, but could also be low B2, B3 or zinc (conversion and cellular uptake of B6)
Edit: My line of thought here is that the problem was there before, but Nardil was the straw that broke the camel's... err V1bzz's back
2) Nardil is known to cause hypoglycemia (or just symptoms of?). There are Hydrazine drugs known to inhibit complexes in OxPhos. Maybe that's the reason? V1bzz, did you change your diet since starting Nardil?

Edit2:...confused user. This was about tandorini, not V1bzz


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*watertouch* @*SFC01* is L-theanine and inositol and actually that much caffeine ok to take with Nardil?


not quite sure what inositol is mate, but yeah 200mg theanine and 100mg caffeine will be fine with nardil.


----------



## watertouch

Yes L-Theanine doesn't seem to cause an interaction with MAOI,(litterature is abit blurry about this, ie "mechanism"/pharmacodynamics (ive also tried this myself)...

Caffeine, well that depends how you tolerate it, When i was on MAOI-Parnate i used like 5x200mg caffeine pills/day (not all at once). So it *decreased *my sensitivity for caffeine. 
Some people get *increased *sensitivity for caffeine while on MAOI.

Check www.examine.com about Guarana, maybe it have some liver enzyme interaction or such.

Insoitol B8 is sometimes used for varius mental problems usually higher doses, up to 18grams/day if i recall right (dont quote me on this)... 
It can cause "the runs" so try it towards night/at home, not in the morning before hitting the streets.


----------



## watertouch

Shai Hulud said:


> I'd be interested in that, too. What are you thinking it could be?


Yes what you mention is something i usually ask people on Nardil, "checking for low bloodsugar lvls" or eat something and see if that helps...

But otherwise im thinking more about MAOIs (since i had these effects on Parnate). So anything like Aldosterone, renin, kidneys, cortisol, elektrolytes.

Hemoglobin and such (if the fatiuge has something to do with the oxygen)...

I was also into something like "lactic acidos" or PH lvls of the blood/urin when i was on Parnate... 
But then my docs withraw the prescribtion i had of Parnate so i had to stop... So i stoped investigating this.

The "goto" answer from Drs "well then it seems like its the medicine that causes it" doesn't really "fly" in my book.:mum


----------



## watertouch

I got something that is kinda like POTS on Parnate (post orthostatic tachyadria syndrome)... 
So when i went from lying down to uppright position my pulse usually went up really high (trying to compensate for the BP drop)...

Ive found the betablocker Inderal/propranolol to help against this... (this however can lower the BP and should probable not be used with an MAOI if BP is already low)...


----------



## Shai Hulud

watertouch said:


> I got something that is kinda like POTS on Parnate (post orthostatic tachyadria syndrome)...
> So when i went from lying down to uppright position my pulse usually went up really high (trying to compensate for the BP drop)...
> 
> Ive found the betablocker Inderal/propranolol to help against this... (this however can lower the BP and should probable not be used with an MAOI if BP is already low)...


There was a time I got this side effect from Nardil. 
Dr. Gillman advised an beta blocker, I used metoprolol. If I remember correctly the idea was from some other doctor who worked in emergency or so. And one doctor more on Parnate was the one treated 
Beta blocker seem to have contrary effects in different tissues, probably related to different distribution of noradrenergic receptor types. So what they should do (and did for me) is balancing bp, not dropping it even more (of course this may be dose dependent).


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Yes L-Theanine doesn't seem to cause an interaction with MAOI,(litterature is abit blurry about this, ie "mechanism"/pharmacodynamics (ive also tried this myself)...
> 
> Caffeine, well that depends how you tolerate it, When i was on MAOI-Parnate i used like 5x200mg caffeine pills/day (not all at once). So it *decreased *my sensitivity for caffeine.
> Some people get *increased *sensitivity for caffeine while on MAOI.
> 
> Check www.examine.com about Guarana, maybe it have some liver enzyme interaction or such.
> 
> Insoitol B8 is sometimes used for varius mental problems usually higher doses, up to 18grams/day if i recall right (dont quote me on this)...
> It can cause "the runs" so try it towards night/at home, not in the morning before hitting the streets.


Mate i'm English, tea is like one of our 5 a day lol.
@SFC01 100mg doesn't seem that much? to be fair though im not up on my how much that actually is compared to a cup of tea.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Mate i'm English, tea is like one of our 5 a day lol.


Ehh im from the cold, dark north!
2cups of black coffee and 3 **** (breakfast for champs)...


----------



## V1bzz

I just shared this private photo with a friend on the forum so thought i would share it here also. I will tell you a little about the story then have the photo. (don't think the damn message went through, stupid forum) @Tandorini so i'll write the last bit of my message here as i think it's relevant.

We were talking about weight and i said about how I was 10stone, sometimes under that because of anxiety. When i started sri's they took my weight up to about 10stone 6 pounds....that was until I got to Mirtazapine. That stuff has worse craving for junk food than smoking weed does and it comes right on after dosing. Eventually i landed at about 12 stone, was really happy with that weight. Before i obsessed with trying to put on weight and never could. I now weigh just under 14 stone from nardil, put most of it on in 5 weeks or so.
I have totally lost my chain of thought here...ok yeah so about the weight, I got into 9 stone in 2012 because I fell into a depressive state, it was the worst i had ever had, it was a living hell and i suffered it unmedicated. I felt like taking meds would just put the battle off to another date and I just had to fight my demons. I was in the hell place for about a year, I finally managed to fight my way out but was not out of the depression for another 2 yrs or so. When I finally climbed out of the hole, the deepest hell I had ever been that nearly destroyed me I demanded to said to the universe that i would never get that ill again!!
Well it's 2017 and I can honestly say I have not had it since, sure i have moments related to my anxiety but not really 'depression' touch wood.
So maybe about a year ago I came across an old photo of me, I had come out of the worst but was still struggling with massive anxiety and bad depression. I kinda felt sick and shamed looking at the photo for allowing myself to get in such a mess, I compared it to a photo of me completely better from depression which i will post below.
I think photos are a great way of showing how far we have come. I don't really like posting photos of myself, its an axiety thing, y'all know the score but when i seen this photo it made me go wow and actually gave me more strength to continue the fight with a good attitude.
I'm posting this photo to show all who suffer from depression that you can beat it, you just got to keep on fighting and never give up on yourself.

P.s. this forum is going so damn slow, took me ages to write this!!









Photo on left is from 2013 and photo on right is 2015


----------



## SFC01

jeez mate, like two different people ! great post though.

I put on weight when I was depressed thanks to Ben and his mate Jerry !! Ended up looking like Tony Soparana haha salute


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> jeez mate, like two different people ! great post though.
> 
> I put on weight when I was depressed thanks to Ben and his mate Jerry !! Ended up looking like Tony Soparana haha salute


Hhaha, mate i was eating all kinds of crap but just could never put on weight. you see my forum photo i have now. one with yellow t-shirt. i was about 101/2 stone there and this photo was taken maybe 2 weeks before i dropped into the hell. I look at peace in the photo, i was in a very healing place but boy, my anxiety was horrendous!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Mate i'm English, tea is like one of our 5 a day lol.
> 
> @*SFC01* 100mg doesn't seem that much? to be fair though im not up on my how much that actually is compared to a cup of tea.


No 100mg aint too much, less than a redbull, bout the same as a coffee. The caffeine pills I take are from bulkpowders.co.uk - really cheap and you get a **** load, they are 200mg each, Think you get those on amazon for aboyt 4 quid


----------



## watertouch

Shai Hulud said:


> Dr. Gillman advised an beta blocker, I used metoprolol. If I remember correctly the idea was from some other doctor who worked in emergency or so. And one doctor more on Parnate was the one treated


Yes (thumb up icon) 
Gillman mentioned this to me when i talked to him, having a friend who was also a doctor that took Parnate and propranolol for that side effect.
We where talking about OH and the baroreflex and such...


----------



## watertouch

Usually caffeine is classed (atleast where i live) as a medicine, so many caffeine pills are not "pharm grade", but actually caffeine Anhydrous, Its not really as effective as pharmgrade caffeine...


----------



## Shai Hulud

watertouch said:


> Usually caffeine is classed (atleast where i live) as a medicine, so many caffeine pills are not "pharm grade", but actually caffeine Anhydrous, Its not really as effective as pharmgrade caffeine...


That's interesting. So a cup of coffee or tea with a comparable amount of caffeine would also be weaker than pharm grade caffeine?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> No 100mg aint too much, less than a redbull, bout the same as a coffee. The caffeine pills I take are from bulkpowders.co.uk - really cheap and you get a **** load, they are 200mg each, Think you get those on amazon for aboyt 4 quid


yeah i think its 2 a day on my ones but will save them both for that afternoon thing where my brain start trying to go to sleep and i look like a boss eyed mo fo trying to fight it. Not really ideal me driving in that state lmfao


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> Yes what you mention is something i usually ask people on Nardil, "checking for low bloodsugar lvls" or eat something and see if that helps...
> 
> But otherwise im thinking more about MAOIs (since i had these effects on Parnate). So anything like Aldosterone, renin, kidneys, cortisol, elektrolytes.
> 
> Hemoglobin and such (if the fatiuge has something to do with the oxygen)...
> 
> I was also into something like "lactic acidos" or PH lvls of the blood/urin when i was on Parnate...
> But then my docs withraw the prescribtion i had of Parnate so i had to stop... So i stoped investigating this.
> 
> The "goto" answer from Drs "well then it seems like its the medicine that causes it" doesn't really "fly" in my book.:mum


I've had heaps of bloodwork done, checking all kinds of things. I've never gotten the results printed to read for myself, but the various doctors and nurses tell me the results came back normal. The last bloodwork I did was earlier this month. I never heard back from the doctor after that, so I suppose it's still okay. I've also had a couple of EKGs done.

Hemoglobin is fine, I actually checked it myself the other day, at work. Don't remember the excact figure, but it was within normal.

I'm gonna see at work today if we've got any of those urine sample kits that also measures PH and lactic acid. It's not the kind we normally use, but I remember a couple of years ago an extended version started to appear, maybe we got some left.

Well, a theory may be that I am subconciously straining my muscles, making my body tired without being aware of it. So I am gonna give relaxation tecniques and massage a try. Couldn't hurt, anyway.


----------



## Tandorini

Shai Hulud said:


> I'd be interested in that, too. What are you thinking it could be?
> 
> Two things coming to my mind:
> 1) PLP deficiency. Not necessarily because there's not enough B6, but could also be low B2, B3 or zinc (conversion and cellular uptake of B6)
> Edit: My line of thought here is that the problem was there before, but Nardil was the straw that broke the camel's... err V1bzz's back
> 2) Nardil is known to cause hypoglycemia (or just symptoms of?). There are Hydrazine drugs known to inhibit complexes in OxPhos. Maybe that's the reason? V1bzz, did you change your diet since starting Nardil?
> 
> Edit2:...confused user. This was about tandorini, not V1bzz


Hi, see my previous answer.

Nardil may cause hypoglycemia I think, but all bloodwork comes back normal. I know that I am quite insulin sensitive from before, whenever I eat (just) sugary stuff, my glucose level get quite low after a couple of hours. But it stabilizes on it's own after that. Anyway, I am used to that, it doesn't bother me much.

I take a multivitaminsupplement every day. It contains both vitamins and other stuff like iron, zinc, etc.

I haven't changed my diet since starting Nardil. Even the stuff on the list is mostly stuff I don't eat much, so it hasn't had a great impact. I usually have a slice of multigrain bread with gouda-like cheese, ham or something like that for breakfast and lunsj. For dinner I'll usually have something containing meat/chicken, vegetables and either pasta, rice or potatoes. For snacks during the day I eat fruits and yoghurts. I am quite the sweet tooth and often have some chocolate or similar in the evenings, but the regular meals, they are quite healthy and balanced. And most important - not changed over the past few years, really. I don't always bother making dinner though, and eat bread instead, but I make dinner a lot more often now than I did before.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I just shared this private photo with a friend on the forum so thought i would share it here also. I will tell you a little about the story then have the photo. (don't think the damn message went through, stupid forum) @*Tandorini* so i'll write the last bit of my message here as i think it's relevant.
> 
> We were talking about weight and i said about how I was 10stone, sometimes under that because of anxiety. When i started sri's they took my weight up to about 10stone 6 pounds....that was until I got to Mirtazapine. That stuff has worse craving for junk food than smoking weed does and it comes right on after dosing. Eventually i landed at about 12 stone, was really happy with that weight. Before i obsessed with trying to put on weight and never could. I now weigh just under 14 stone from nardil, put most of it on in 5 weeks or so.
> I have totally lost my chain of thought here...ok yeah so about the weight, I got into 9 stone in 2012 because I fell into a depressive state, it was the worst i had ever had, it was a living hell and i suffered it unmedicated. I felt like taking meds would just put the battle off to another date and I just had to fight my demons. I was in the hell place for about a year, I finally managed to fight my way out but was not out of the depression for another 2 yrs or so. When I finally climbed out of the hole, the deepest hell I had ever been that nearly destroyed me I demanded to said to the universe that i would never get that ill again!!
> Well it's 2017 and I can honestly say I have not had it since, sure i have moments related to my anxiety but not really 'depression' touch wood.
> So maybe about a year ago I came across an old photo of me, I had come out of the worst but was still struggling with massive anxiety and bad depression. I kinda felt sick and shamed looking at the photo for allowing myself to get in such a mess, I compared it to a photo of me completely better from depression which i will post below.
> I think photos are a great way of showing how far we have come. I don't really like posting photos of myself, its an axiety thing, y'all know the score but when i seen this photo it made me go wow and actually gave me more strength to continue the fight with a good attitude.
> I'm posting this photo to show all who suffer from depression that you can beat it, you just got to keep on fighting and never give up on yourself.
> 
> P.s. this forum is going so damn slow, took me ages to write this!!
> 
> Photo on left is from 2013 and photo on right is 2015


Sure looks like to different fellas! That's great that you got so much better, you look great.

Mirtazapine is definitely the worst (best) for putting on weight. At work we use it for the elderly patients, mostly. Can't eat, feel sad, can't sleep, feeling anxious? Mirtazapine! It's a wonder drug. Skinny, distressed patients wandering about at night all of a sudden sleep through the night and wake up for breakfast, eating loads, chatting with the other patients. Myself, I would never touch the thing.

I've been depressed since the fall of 2014. I've also suffered from depression before, but never as serious as this, and also, Prozac worked for me. I started getting neurological side effects from it, and had to discontinue. So when I again got depressed in 2014, I had to try other meds to see if they worked. Since that, and up until now, I've been trying loads and loads of medicine, none working, until I tried Nardil. I was so frustrated, I had the worst feeling of hopelessness, throughout this depression. I was angry at myself for not commiting suicide, when there really was no other thing I wanted more, than to just be released from all that emotional pain. I finally hit rock bottom in February, trying to commit suicide. Needless to say, I failed. I felt miserable, being on of the persons now with a failed suicide attempt behind me. I've always shook my head at them, thinking they didn't try hard enough, that they must not have wanted to die. But now, I was one of them. After a few days though, it gave me comfort to know that if I ever am to hit rock bottom again, I WILL be able to go for another attempt. I had started thinking I never would be able to, and felt a panicky feeling, thinking there is no escape.

Now I know what rock bottom feels like. I know I can't sink any lower than that, and if I am close to that, I will have the guts to off myself. Hopefully with a bit more resources at my hands than what I could obtain that afternoon back in February.

I see I come off as kind of depressive here, but atm I am not, really. I'm just describing how it was back then. And a week or two later, I started Nardil. I got released from the hospital in the beginning of March, I started group therapy four days a week for six weeks, and after that (we're at the beginning of May by now) I have started to ease back into work. I hang out with friends, I sometimes work out, and I live a quite normal life. Except for the fatigue, of course. That's keeping me from enjoying the full effect of Nardil. But anyone is to wonder why _I_ chooses to suffer the Nardils side effects, well, then this is why. Because I know how I have been since the fall of 2014. I remember February. I never wanna go back to the state I was in, and I never wanna sleep another night at the p hospital.

I have been lucky not to gain weight from the meds I've been on, but I haven't tried anything like mirtazapine either, I am sure I too would gain weight on that. I was on Bupropion (Wellbutrin) for 6 months, that was like a diet pill for me. I lost weight the whole time. I just lost interest in food. I would never eat unless a headache or slight dizziness reminded me it was time. I would feel sick in the morning, sometimes throwing up my breakfast, but the rest of the day I just didn't have an interest. Sure, I could eat a couple of bites of this and that, but I would never make a meal. I think I made a hot meal for myself three or four times during those 6 months. I lost 10 kilos or something like that.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Sure looks like to different fellas! That's great that you got so much better, you look great.
> 
> Mirtazapine is definitely the worst (best) for putting on weight. At work we use it for the elderly patients, mostly. Can't eat, feel sad, can't sleep, feeling anxious? Mirtazapine! It's a wonder drug. Skinny, distressed patients wandering about at night all of a sudden sleep through the night and wake up for breakfast, eating loads, chatting with the other patients. Myself, I would never touch the thing.
> 
> I've been depressed since the fall of 2014. I've also suffered from depression before, but never as serious as this, and also, Prozac worked for me. I started getting neurological side effects from it, and had to discontinue. So when I again got depressed in 2014, I had to try other meds to see if they worked. Since that, and up until now, I've been trying loads and loads of medicine, none working, until I tried Nardil. I was so frustrated, I had the worst feeling of hopelessness, throughout this depression. I was angry at myself for not commiting suicide, when there really was no other thing I wanted more, than to just be released from all that emotional pain. I finally hit rock bottom in February, trying to commit suicide. Needless to say, I failed. I felt miserable, being on of the persons now with a failed suicide attempt behind me. I've always shook my head at them, thinking they didn't try hard enough, that they must not have wanted to die. But now, I was one of them. After a few days though, it gave me comfort to know that if I ever am to hit rock bottom again, I WILL be able to go for another attempt. I had started thinking I never would be able to, and felt a panicky feeling, thinking there is no escape.
> 
> Now I know what rock bottom feels like. I know I can't sink any lower than that, and if I am close to that, I will have the guts to off myself. Hopefully with a bit more resources at my hands than what I could obtain that afternoon back in February.
> 
> I see I come off as kind of depressive here, but atm I am not, really. I'm just describing how it was back then. And a week or two later, I started Nardil. I got released from the hospital in the beginning of March, I started group therapy four days a week for six weeks, and after that (we're at the beginning of May by now) I have started to ease back into work. I hang out with friends, I sometimes work out, and I live a quite normal life. Except for the fatigue, of course. That's keeping me from enjoying the full effect of Nardil. But anyone is to wonder why _I_ chooses to suffer the Nardils side effects, well, then this is why. Because I know how I have been since the fall of 2014. I remember February. I never wanna go back to the state I was in, and I never wanna sleep another night at the p hospital.
> 
> I have been lucky not to gain weight from the meds I've been on, but I haven't tried anything like mirtazapine either, I am sure I too would gain weight on that. I was on Bupropion (Wellbutrin) for 6 months, that was like a diet pill for me. I lost weight the whole time. I just lost interest in food. I would never eat unless a headache or slight dizziness reminded me it was time. I would feel sick in the morning, sometimes throwing up my breakfast, but the rest of the day I just didn't have an interest. Sure, I could eat a couple of bites of this and that, but I would never make a meal. I think I made a hot meal for myself three or four times during those 6 months. I lost 10 kilos or something like that.


Man I think Bupropion was the first or 3rd one i had on my list, nardil being second. glad i didn't get that then, doesn't sound very nice.
And this suicide stuff, you *WILL NOT* try to kill yourself ever again! That is all.

Everyone here is better than that, you have to choose to fight. I also tried to kill myself maybe 3 or 4 times but OD never worked for me, it seems I just never had enough even when I stashed loads.
knives always seemed too blunt...Jumping out of the moving car didn't work, I just rolled really far grazing my whole body which was really painful.
universe telling me to get a grip I think!

It was that last time in 2012

that I knew I had to fight it this time, I put the Escitalopram (i think it was) in the drawer and left them there.

Me saying this to everyone is not me going, look at me i'm awesome. That is totally not me and I am far from thinking i'm awesome. Up until lately I couldn't even stand to see my ugly face in the mirror :grin2:

I'm just trying to show you, we do have the strength if we just don't give up, you just gotta keep fighting, the easy way out rarely works.

I say it alot here and prob sound stupid but don't give up on yourself :nerd:


----------



## Shai Hulud

V1bzz said:


> Photo on left is from 2013 and photo on right is 2015


Looking great.
I'm 193 cm tall and it took till my 20s to get to 70 kg. Before that, it was most of the time as low as 62,5 kg and didn't change if I ate a lot or just a little bit. Really hated it, but there was nothing I could do with the knowledge I had back then. And don't get me started about doctors...


----------



## Shai Hulud

Tandorini said:


> Hi, see my previous answer.
> 
> Nardil may cause hypoglycemia I think, but all bloodwork comes back normal. I know that I am quite insulin sensitive from before, whenever I eat (just) sugary stuff, my glucose level get quite low after a couple of hours. But it stabilizes on it's own after that. Anyway, I am used to that, it doesn't bother me much.


I trust they checked your liver? Gillman told me Nardil-induced liver damage is very, very rare.
Probably idiopathic. I'm low on time now and couldn't check how long you've been taking it.


----------



## Tandorini

Shai Hulud said:


> I trust they checked your liver? Gillman told me Nardil-induced liver damage is very, very rare.
> Probably idiopathic. I'm low on time now and couldn't check how long you've been taking it.


They have checked the liver a few times too, yeah. I started Nardil in mid February, and have been on 60 mg for close to four months now. Tried 75-90 mg for a short period, but the side effects got too harsh.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Man I think Bupropion was the first or 3rd one i had on my list, nardil being second. glad i didn't get that then, doesn't sound very nice.
> And this suicide stuff, you *WILL NOT* try to kill yourself ever again! That is all.
> 
> Everyone here is better than that, you have to choose to fight. I also tried to kill myself maybe 3 or 4 times but OD never worked for me, it seems I just never had enough even when I stashed loads.
> knives always seemed too blunt...Jumping out of the moving car didn't work, I just rolled really far grazing my whole body which was really painful.
> universe telling me to get a grip I think!
> 
> It was that last time in 2012
> 
> that I knew I had to fight it this time, I put the Escitalopram (i think it was) in the drawer and left them there.
> 
> Me saying this to everyone is not me going, look at me i'm awesome. That is totally not me and I am far from thinking i'm awesome. Up until lately I couldn't even stand to see my ugly face in the mirror :grin2:
> 
> I'm just trying to show you, we do have the strength if we just don't give up, you just gotta keep fighting, the easy way out rarely works.
> 
> I say it alot here and prob sound stupid but don't give up on yourself :nerd:


A friend of mine is on Bupropion, and she doesn't get the lack of appetite, so I guess it's just one of those side effects that some people get, but most people don't. At least not to the degree I got it.

Nah, don't worry, I am far from suicidal atm. And with Nardil, hopefully I will never go back to being as sick as I was. But I sure hope the sides will ease up a bit after a while. It's a high price to pay for being in a better mood. But I am gonna stick to them for now.


----------



## watertouch

Shai Hulud said:


> That's interesting. So a cup of coffee or tea with a comparable amount of caffeine would also be weaker than pharm grade caffeine?


Naa i actually find a cup of black coffee to work better then caffeine pills...(of course coffee contains other agents)
So this was discussed on another forum, and about why would a different brand of caffeine pills work better... So i went on more or less about the "fillers" but hell i chew all my pills so... 
Heres the "*cop out*" answer you get from the manufacture about why his caffeine pills are not as effective.



> We use 1,3,7-trimetyl-1H-purin-2,6(3H,7H)-dion 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimetyl-1H-purin-2,6-dion, CAS 58-08-2 with a molecylweight of 194.19g/mol in XXX, the worst thats on the market....(smiley face)
> 1,3,7-trimetylxantin is the chemical name of caffeine . A distrubitor that doesnt know that the name is "koffeinanhydrat" and not "koffein anhydrous") i would never buy from...Amateurs.


(see what he did there)

But if you can explain the difference, or such feel free to do such!
(ill PM you)


----------



## V1bzz

Hey guys, just checking in cos I haven't posted much the last few days.

I had work Friday, walked out the door at 0800 and didn't walk back through it until 19.30...I was surprised, I didn't have Nardil tiredness at all during the day, I guess I was just too damn busy to let it seap in. I was literally non stop all bloody day.

Totally different from today, i got up at 0720, was going to have a lie in but Mr Nardil kept waking me up from about 0600. Still managed to get a little bit though.

My dosing at the moment is 30mg AM, maybe an hour or so after waking, then 30mg always between 1-2PM. My only side effect at the moment (it's early days) is that weird narcolepsy thing, not even sure you can really call it that but it's very similar in the way it hits, just not as instant.

My ankles are really bloody sore today but that is expected from the day I had yesterday. I think even without my pains I would still be aching a bit today.
Anyway, ignoring that I decided to walk to Tesco (supermarket) it's about a mile from my house. Last time I couldn't walk 10 metres on Nardil because of the lactic burning in my lower body going to my lower back, I would always feel like I was going to collapse. I'm trying to combat that early by taking these walks. I walked back also so 2 miles total and it wasn't too emotional.

I get home and take my 2nd dose and shortly after I just feel totally fkuced. I had to sleep, I tried to battle it but it was too much.
OMG I ended up sleeping from 2pm - 6.30pm, totally wasted the whole day 

I'm still feeling abit unmotivated and lethargic, I know because I always lose interest in making music when I get this and I NEVER lose interest in making music, I love it too much and never get bored of it ever! it's pretty much my life. Little story, when I was healing from that terrible depression I sat down and knew I had to do something to keep my mind busy to stop myself getting down. Always wanted to make choones since I was 14 so started looking it up and got my first DAW..Digital Audio Workstation, that was the beginning of the journey. I suggest to you all to force yourself to do that thing that you have always wanted to do, I believe with me saying I would never get ill again and that, it pretty much saved my soul.

I believe its 2 weeks tomorrow I started dosing, i'm getting all confused with the dates lol, on my little calendar right bottom of the screen it say monday but i had a msg on the sleep login screen saying it's tomorrow.

@SFC01 @watertouch @Tandorini

My vit complex arrived today. 3rd day after ordering, how quick is that! I really like Healthspan, they don't fkuc about. I thought it was coming from the US cos it said allow 10 working days but its here.
I would recommend them if you want vits and such quickly. Dirt cheap too but excellent products.

I'm gunna write down whats in them, take a 10 minute break, go grab a cup of tea, make yourself a coffee 
I'm gunna sit on my bed and write this down, my little finger and the finger next to it have gone numb, I was reading its because I rest my arms on a desk to type and its a problem with the nerve in the elbow. I have lost about 25% function in my right hand now. Good for fapping (hate that word) good for whacking one off, bashing one out, god i'm vile hahaha. (write down your names for it in the comments section  )

Ok....

Vit A - 800µg Vit C - 80mg Chloride - 36mg Phosphorus 40mg
Vit D3 - 5µg Chronium - 20µg Potassium - 40mg
Vit B1 - 1.1mg Vit E - 12mg a-TE Copper - 1mg Selenium - 55µg
Vit B2 - 1.4mg Vit K1 - 37.5µg Iodine - 150µg Zinc - 100mg
Vit B3 - 16mgNE Biotin - 50µg  Iron - 14mg
Vit B5 - 6mg Folic Acid - 200µg Magnesium - 75mg
Vit B6 - 1.4mg Boron - 50µg Manganese - 2mg
Vit B12 - 2.5µg Calcium - 200mg Molybdenum 25µg

Ok thats the main ones, there's about 30 more listed in ingredients.
Never heard of a couple of the main ones. What worries me about this complex is the sheer amount of B vits.

What do you guys think, pretty good complex eh?

(EDIT - damn forum, spent ages setting it all out and it just throws it all together!!!)


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'm gunna sit on my bed and write this down, my little finger and the finger next to it have gone numb, I was reading its because I rest my arms on a desk to type and its a problem with the nerve in the elbow. I have lost about 25% function in my right hand now. Good for fapping (hate that word) good for whacking one off, bashing one out, god i'm vile hahaha. (write down your names for it in the comments section  )


burping the worm? or my favourite - feeding the ducks !! :grin2:

I have that numbness in my little finger and the finger next to it all the time since I had my last elbow operation !!

Re the vitamin complex, how is your diet anyway ? I tracked my food intake on one of those chron-o-meters once and the only ones I was deficient in was magnesium, vitamin d and vitamin e - and I`m no health freak !! I was already supplementing with vit d and magnesium so just upped my vit e intake with a few mangos and nuts I think it was.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> burping the worm? or my favourite - feeding the ducks !! :grin2:
> 
> I have that numbness in my little finger and the finger next to it all the time since I had my last elbow operation !!
> 
> Re the vitamin complex, how is your diet anyway ? I tracked my food intake on one of those chron-o-meters once and the only ones I was deficient in was magnesium, vitamin d and vitamin e - and I`m no health freak !! I was already supplementing with vit d and magnesium so just upped my vit e intake with a few mangos and nuts I think it was.


hahaha

looking forward to seeing @watertouch version haha. he will prob just come out with, do you get morning wood with nardil :grin2:

Umm i don't eat too badly but far from eating healthy. Nardil has been pretty good for me food wise, its put me off buying burgers and eating bacon sandwiches, sausage sandwiches etc.
I went through a bad munchies stage of ole nardy, massive cravings for cookies. I would do 2 whole packs n one go, dipping em in tea and leaving nothing to drink haha.

I'm being a good boy at the moment  makes a bloody change lol.

God knows how i stayed up for those 2 days without sleep, finding myself to be really bored at the moment, that kinda bored where you can't be bothered doing anything you think of.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Hey guys, just checking in cos I haven't posted much the last few days.
> 
> I had work Friday, walked out the door at 0800 and didn't walk back through it until 19.30...I was surprised, I didn't have Nardil tiredness at all during the day, I guess I was just too damn busy to let it seap in. I was literally non stop all bloody day.
> 
> Totally different from today, i got up at 0720, was going to have a lie in but Mr Nardil kept waking me up from about 0600. Still managed to get a little bit though.
> 
> My dosing at the moment is 30mg AM, maybe an hour or so after waking, then 30mg always between 1-2PM. My only side effect at the moment (it's early days) is that weird narcolepsy thing, not even sure you can really call it that but it's very similar in the way it hits, just not as instant.
> 
> My ankles are really bloody sore today but that is expected from the day I had yesterday. I think even without my pains I would still be aching a bit today.
> Anyway, ignoring that I decided to walk to Tesco (supermarket) it's about a mile from my house. Last time I couldn't walk 10 metres on Nardil because of the lactic burning in my lower body going to my lower back, I would always feel like I was going to collapse. I'm trying to combat that early by taking these walks. I walked back also so 2 miles total and it wasn't too emotional.
> 
> I get home and take my 2nd dose and shortly after I just feel totally fkuced. I had to sleep, I tried to battle it but it was too much.
> OMG I ended up sleeping from 2pm - 6.30pm, totally wasted the whole day
> 
> I'm still feeling abit unmotivated and lethargic, I know because I always lose interest in making music when I get this and I NEVER lose interest in making music, I love it too much and never get bored of it ever! it's pretty much my life. Little story, when I was healing from that terrible depression I sat down and knew I had to do something to keep my mind busy to stop myself getting down. Always wanted to make choones since I was 14 so started looking it up and got my first DAW..Digital Audio Workstation, that was the beginning of the journey. I suggest to you all to force yourself to do that thing that you have always wanted to do, I believe with me saying I would never get ill again and that, it pretty much saved my soul.
> 
> I believe its 2 weeks tomorrow I started dosing, i'm getting all confused with the dates lol, on my little calendar right bottom of the screen it say monday but i had a msg on the sleep login screen saying it's tomorrow.
> 
> @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Tandorini*
> 
> My vit complex arrived today. 3rd day after ordering, how quick is that! I really like Healthspan, they don't fkuc about. I thought it was coming from the US cos it said allow 10 working days but its here.
> I would recommend them if you want vits and such quickly. Dirt cheap too but excellent products.
> 
> I'm gunna write down whats in them, take a 10 minute break, go grab a cup of tea, make yourself a coffee
> I'm gunna sit on my bed and write this down, my little finger and the finger next to it have gone numb, I was reading its because I rest my arms on a desk to type and its a problem with the nerve in the elbow. I have lost about 25% function in my right hand now. Good for fapping (hate that word) good for whacking one off, bashing one out, god i'm vile hahaha. (write down your names for it in the comments section  )
> 
> Ok....
> 
> Vit A - 800µg Vit C - 80mg Chloride - 36mg Phosphorus 40mg
> Vit D3 - 5µg Chronium - 20µg Potassium - 40mg
> Vit B1 - 1.1mg Vit E - 12mg a-TE Copper - 1mg Selenium - 55µg
> Vit B2 - 1.4mg Vit K1 - 37.5µg Iodine - 150µg Zinc - 100mg
> Vit B3 - 16mgNE Biotin - 50µg Iron - 14mg
> Vit B5 - 6mg Folic Acid - 200µg Magnesium - 75mg
> Vit B6 - 1.4mg Boron - 50µg Manganese - 2mg
> Vit B12 - 2.5µg Calcium - 200mg Molybdenum 25µg
> 
> Ok thats the main ones, there's about 30 more listed in ingredients.
> Never heard of a couple of the main ones. What worries me about this complex is the sheer amount of B vits.
> 
> What do you guys think, pretty good complex eh?
> 
> (EDIT - damn forum, spent ages setting it all out and it just throws it all together!!!)


I had a look at the vitamin complex when you first posted the link to it. It is very similar to the one I take, so I guess it's quite common amounts of the different kinds of vitamins and stuff. I had a quick look at the amounts of vitamin B, comparing them to prescription supplements, and this OTC vitamin complex contains a lot less of the vitamins than them. I have no idea how they are affecting Nardil or not. Haven't really explored the pharmacologal (?) mechanisms of Nardil.

Yeah, I too force myself to lead an as normal life as possible. With Nardil it's not really a problem. But before that, I forced myself to the gym, meet up with friends, stay in touch with work even though I was called off sick. Did housework, tried reading books, watched TV shows I knew I would have liked. I think it is both important for remembering what life is supposed to be like, but also to get back to the normal/old life once you're better.

Some depressed people just let everything slide, and when they finally get better, they discover that they have lost touch with their friends, their house is a mess, they are unpopular at work, and maybe ruined their economy by not paying bills or making sure they get the income/benefits they are entitled too. Luckily I have always been able to maintain all this, so that it's easier to choose to go back to.

Awesome that you very able to walk two miles. Have you ever concidered taking Nardil later than 1-2 pm? At the hospital they always gave me the first dose in the morning, and then the second dose right before bed time. I don't know if that is any better, but I've been doing that ever since. I have been thinking of experimenting with the time I take them, but I think it will be more difficult for me to remember them mid-day. I take seroquel every night anyway, so I just take my Nardil with that. And I keep it in the fridge, so it's a routine taking the tablets with breakfast.

Been struggling a lot with my sleep, but slept like a baby when I took 10 mg of Oxazepam last night (together with the 200 mg of Seroquel I always take). That was awesome. But I am actually feeling tired again now, only three hours after getting up this morning.


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

I remember reading on this drug and it saying that in a study done to prove its effectiveness, 70 percent of the social anxiety patients trying the drug saw huge improvements, while the 30 percent went off the drug because of its side effects. you might be a part of that 30 percent, but as i would and i assume you will be, try and see if you can make it work but if not then try Parnate which is plan B for all of us looking for the medical cure. gl


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I had a look at the vitamin complex when you first posted the link to it. It is very similar to the one I take, so I guess it's quite common amounts of the different kinds of vitamins and stuff. I had a quick look at the amounts of vitamin B, comparing them to prescription supplements, and this OTC vitamin complex contains a lot less of the vitamins than them. I have no idea how they are affecting Nardil or not. Haven't really explored the pharmacologal (?) mechanisms of Nardil.
> 
> Yeah, I too force myself to lead an as normal life as possible. With Nardil it's not really a problem. But before that, I forced myself to the gym, meet up with friends, stay in touch with work even though I was called off sick. Did housework, tried reading books, watched TV shows I knew I would have liked. I think it is both important for remembering what life is supposed to be like, but also to get back to the normal/old life once you're better.
> 
> Some depressed people just let everything slide, and when they finally get better, they discover that they have lost touch with their friends, their house is a mess, they are unpopular at work, and maybe ruined their economy by not paying bills or making sure they get the income/benefits they are entitled too. Luckily I have always been able to maintain all this, so that it's easier to choose to go back to.
> 
> Awesome that you very able to walk two miles. Have you ever concidered taking Nardil later than 1-2 pm? At the hospital they always gave me the first dose in the morning, and then the second dose right before bed time. I don't know if that is any better, but I've been doing that ever since. I have been thinking of experimenting with the time I take them, but I think it will be more difficult for me to remember them mid-day. I take seroquel every night anyway, so I just take my Nardil with that. And I keep it in the fridge, so it's a routine taking the tablets with breakfast.
> 
> Been struggling a lot with my sleep, but slept like a baby when I took 10 mg of Oxazepam last night (together with the 200 mg of Seroquel I always take). That was awesome. But I am actually feeling tired again now, only three hours after getting up this morning.


Thats the only problem when you get more sleep than usual, you feel bloody tired all day.
Have you considered that taking nardil at night time maybe affecting your sleep? many people can't sleep because of nardil so dose earlier in the day, thats how i picked up my dosing regime from reading this forum about nardil.
I sleep awesome on nardil and have taken it about an hour before bed and still slept awesome, still felt tired during the day next day though, changing the time of dose didnt benefit me at all.
Take your dose before 5pm today and see how you sleep tonight 

I took 3 in one go this morning (my body is used to taking 7 at one go) to see if i can combat the weird afternoon thing, so far i had a very brief moment where i thought it was going to force me to sleep a couple of hrs after waking but it was short lived and passed in a few minutes. Been all good since then and am now just about to suck my last one....mmm you really do get used to the taste, its still not nice but it doesnt bother you. most times i forget it's even under my tongue and its sore as feck when i move it, it eats into the skin so be careful to move it about if you anyone decides to try it. under tongue, front of teeth, cheeks.
I also bite them in half now to make it dissolve better.

Damn, chatting chit about myself againm sorry!


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> hahaha
> 
> looking forward to seeing @*watertouch* version haha. he will prob just come out with, do you get morning wood with nardil :grin2:


How about "playing pocket ping-pong", "pull a Tarzan".

on a side note: Morning wood on Nardil? :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 a week i've been at it and only got this far  Boy I miss my samples!!

https://clyp.it/f42f4djs?token=f77e5bcc54ba32297bb93ef85d2c747a


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> How about "playing pocket ping-pong", "pull a Tarzan".
> 
> on a side note: Morning wood on Nardil? :grin2:


 

Yeah, this guide comes in the nardil packet (lmfao @ #2!!!)


----------



## WillComp

Hahahaha!!! 

Too funny! The guy in the drawing is actually lucky. At this point, if I'm lucky enough to get morning wood, I forget it even happened while I'm walking to the bathroom with those dizzying white-out spells. When I get to that point, I think I'll start with pic #3. LOL.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Hahahaha!!!
> 
> Too funny! The guy in the drawing is actually lucky. At this point, if I'm lucky enough to get morning wood, I forget it even happened while I'm walking to the bathroom with those dizzying white-out spells. When I get to that point, I think I'll start with pic #3. LOL.


Welcome back :grin2:

Pic 3 is normal for me ever since my very first hangover haha. I've been having that nasty narcolepsy thing mate. not long after i wrote the post above I was talking to @watertouch and was going through it, it f'ing sucks man. The only thing that I know beats it, well for me at least is jumping in the shower, i'm alright after that. 
Can't really say to the boss though, 'just popping home for a quick shower' :grin2:

There's gotta be a way to crack it, I forgot to order them caffeine things, pro plus, energy tablets don't cut it for me.
I'm glad the moments don't last as long as last time though, i think it last for about 30mins max.
I wonder if something as simple as popping to the toilet and washing your face and head would do the trick. Not ideal if you style your hair but perfect if you shave it all off like moi :nerd:

Good to see you back mate. hope you had a nice break, sometimes it's good for the soul to take a time out


----------



## WillComp

Hey thanks, mate. It's nice to be back posting again. 

I'm still getting that too, had to take another regular 200mg caffeine pill which seemed to do its job but only lasted about an hr or so. It's a weird feeling when it first comes on, you can't even keep your eyes from shutting or your head from dropping. It'll be nice when that side effect subsides. 

Same with the white-out / fainting spells. Yesterday I came super close to passing out while crossing the street at a busy intersection. All cars stopped and watching me cross the street. I did everything I could to stay on my feet as I wobbled in a zig zag line, like a drunk, and I have no idea how I managed to make it without falling on my face. 

Today I stayed in, relaxed, cleaned the apt and did laundry so I wouldn't get that nasty narcolepsy feeling, and didn't feel dizzy at all. Virtually no side effects today. But if I had to guess, they'll return with a vengeance either tomorrow or in a few days. At least I'm feeling amazing when the sides are manageable. Nardil is definitely working, and it's making dealing with the sides a lot easier.


----------



## Tandorini

Hm. Now that's at least one side that doesn't affect me. Morning wood. Got the rest of them. Wouldn't be surprised if my body managed to get some new, previously unheard of, weird side effect just to compensate for me not being able to get morning wood. After all, what's the fun of Nardil if you don't get all the sides, eh? :mum


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hm. Now that's at least one side that doesn't affect me. Morning wood. Got the rest of them. Wouldn't be surprised if my body managed to get some new, previously unheard of, weird side effect just to compensate for me not being able to get morning wood. After all, what's the fun of Nardil if you don't get all the sides, eh? :mum


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Hey thanks, mate. It's nice to be back posting again.
> 
> I'm still getting that too, had to take another regular 200mg caffeine pill which seemed to do its job but only lasted about an hr or so. It's a weird feeling when it first comes on, you can't even keep your eyes from shutting or your head from dropping. It'll be nice when that side effect subsides.
> 
> Same with the white-out / fainting spells. Yesterday I came super close to passing out while crossing the street at a busy intersection. All cars stopped and watching me cross the street. I did everything I could to stay on my feet as I wobbled in a zig zag line, like a drunk, and I have no idea how I managed to make it without falling on my face.
> 
> Today I stayed in, relaxed, cleaned the apt and did laundry so I wouldn't get that nasty narcolepsy feeling, and didn't feel dizzy at all. Virtually no side effects today. But if I had to guess, they'll return with a vengeance either tomorrow or in a few days. At least I'm feeling amazing when the sides are manageable. Nardil is definitely working, and it's making dealing with the sides a lot easier.


Mate I will reply to you better in the next day or two, i had bad faitgue all day while working and now i have that narcolepsy ****, been going on about an hour now, I hate it! 
I've been googling trying to find something to help this...google '*Gotu Kola*'
It's supposed to really help, also i was reading the comments and one fella said it got rid of his swollen feet, winner!! :grin2::nerd:

Do you have Holland & Barret in the US? They have it. i'm sick of buying **** trying to get rid of nardil side effects. first time i spent far too much money.

Question - who was it that got prescribed the Modafinil?


----------



## V1bzz

Huff, i'm going through a phase where I can't be arsed to do anything. It's possible i'm just exhausted. I have worked every day this week, hard busy shifts and it is the first time in months. Taking it's toll I think.

No joy from Nardil yet, 2 weeks at 60 on Monday 3rd july, 3 weeks at 45.

Hopefully will return to my normal self soon


----------



## WillComp

Hey V1, how you feeling now? Did you ever get that Gotu Kola? Man,this nardil is like a roller coaster with all the symptoms. Its taking a toll on me, plus I'm exhausted too from work and overtime. 

On Saturday I slept about 80% of the day. I felt I needed it. 

I developed a new side effect: extreme muscle soreness. I posted about it in the sticky thread, Nardil questions, contact me. Can't even lift my arm 2 min when brushing my teeth. Walking out to the car is exhausting. 

It's still working for me about 90% of the time which has been amazing. Ive had several occasions this week where I felt anxious, even dropped my car keys while walking out to the car with a coworker. lol Combination of noticeable nerves and muscle tiredness. Needless to say it felt mighty good to sleep all day.

Hope everyone else is getting along alright. Let's keep this thread alive!


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> I developed a new side effect: extreme muscle soreness. I posted about it in the sticky thread, Nardil questions, contact me. Can't even lift my arm 2 min when brushing my teeth. Walking out to the car is exhausting.
> 
> It's still working for me about 90% of the time which has been amazing. Ive had several occasions this week where I felt anxious, even dropped my car keys while walking out to the car with a coworker. lol Combination of noticeable nerves and muscle tiredness. Needless to say it felt mighty good to sleep all day.
> 
> Hope everyone else is getting along alright. Let's keep this thread alive!


Hey WillComp, did you see the answer I posted in that sticky thread? If you got access to some muscle relaxants (I used oxazepam), try that for a couple of days (or nights). It really did the trick for me. Dunno if that's the big solution, or that it only worked by chance, but it's worth a shot. It's like my muscles finally got some rest, and ever since I tried that, it hasn't been quite as bad. I guess it takes time to build up all that lactic acid.

The exhaustion and the need for naps is there, but I don't have to take breaks while brushing my teeth atm


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Hey WillComp, did you see the answer I posted in that sticky thread? If you got access to some muscle relaxants (I used oxazepam), try that for a couple of days (or nights). It really did the trick for me. Dunno if that's the big solution, or that it only worked by chance, but it's worth a shot. It's like my muscles finally got some rest, and ever since I tried that, it hasn't been quite as bad. I guess it takes time to build up all that lactic acid.
> 
> The exhaustion and the need for naps is there, but I don't have to take breaks while brushing my teeth atm


Hey thanks Tandorini. Very interesting! That's exactly how I would describe it. It feels like acidity is building up in all my muscles and making me really sore. I don't have access to any muscle relaxants.. I'll look into the oxazepam. For me, I've noticed the most effective muscle relaxant is sleep. Just laying in bed and taking a long nap seems like it relaxes my muscles. Yesterday I spent almost the whole day in bed and I feel much better today. I'm sure this side effect will continue though for a period of time.

This evening I plan to go to the gym at my apartment complex and continue my weight lifting routine (Sunday is my "pull" routine). Pull-ups, dumbbell rows, bicep curls, deadlifts, cable rows, etc. for about 45 minutes. I haven't been to the gym on a routine basis since I started 60. I'm gonna give it my all. Two days a week, I'm gonna do the high intensity interval training, and hopefully I'll slowly improve each week. Two weeks ago, when hiking up that mountain I saw this dude wearing a t-shirt that said "Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body". That phrase has stuck in my mind, especially since I was in so much pain at the time. I might have to buy that shirt now; it looks pretty cool.

I'm sure it'll be frustrating not being able to lift or run like I used to, but I think if I continue to improve in my workouts every couple weeks it'll be quite encouraging, and I'll feel better about myself than if I sat around watching tv. I can't stand watching political pundits on tv these days anyway. If I see a certain someone on tv, I literally get sick to my stomach.. and I don't need to deal with yet another adverse side effect.


----------



## V1bzz

wondering if anyone gets the random index finger twitching? im tired of it pressing random keys for me lol


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> wondering if anyone gets the random index finger twitching? im tired of it pressing random keys for me lol


The crazy finger ? Got it with lyrica lol really annoying.

With nardil no. This med seems to **** my skin but apart from that zero side effects. Also the good dose for me seems to be 75mg: I tried it for two days and I had some light hypotension. It went away quickly when I went back to 60mg. So it's really different for everyone. I need to ask my doc for 75mg (then I would reach a perfect 1mg/kg).

You get some benefits now ? After five weeks I don't think I do.


----------



## V1bzz

promise i will reply to you guys tomorrow. Nardil i forcing me to sleep right now, my mind /head went to sleep 3 or 4 times reading your podts. not cos they were boring lol.

@WillComp you increased your dose??

I'll talk better tomorrow, my brain keeps shutting dow at the momet. bee doing it all day.
the lactic muscles fatigue passes after a while. fair play to you to still be hitting the gym,

I got drunk last night, first time i a long time. boy nardil is intense today. basically ko me all day.

i hv=ave the leg doctor tomorrow, will let you guys know how it does. gotta sleep now. fighting to stay awake it making my body feel exhausted.
@Cassoulet94 still early days for you i think


----------



## V1bzz

guys i just wrote a long @*** reply and this damn forum didn't post it and it didn't save a draft.
I really cant write all that again, stupid ****ing piece of **** thing. omg i feel so pissed off now because of that.


----------



## V1bzz

@Cassoulet94 - Not really getting anything yet but its doing enough to stop my panic attacks though, still really early days though.
I'm only at 2 weeks at 60mg today and 3 weeks at 45mg.
Do you also get tingling in your fingers?

@WillComp if i remember right mate that nasty extreme fatigue only passed for me when i hit higher doses. it's a horrible damn phase, really hope i dont get it again. Honestly, fair play that your still forcing your *** to hit the gym. reading your post brought back memories for me of feeling knackered just driving the car and having to take breather breaks while brushing my teeth cos of being out of breath and having shoulder burn.
It was that, that made me start sitting in the shower, just to conserve energy lol.
I still sit now actually because of the pain in my knees.

I think I will give nardil a couple more months then try parnate. i'm not giving up on it though, i think if it doesn't fully work when i know it can make me feel awesome, like it did for those 3 days. it may be a good idea to give my body a break from it, give parnate a try. then go back to nardil. I think Parnate is more for depression.
After i had drunk on saturday I had a strong desire to end it all on the sunday morning. It was a place I hadn't been to for a long time. I'm lucky to have a friend who understands what i go through and he talked me out of it by throwing loads of old great memories at me, it worked quickly and effectively. I went from crying to laughing.

I haven't been myself lately, you may have all noticed because i stopped posting. I think how i have been feeling was building to that moment. i'm hoping its because nardil is flucking with my brain chemistry and is working to fix it. I remember on all anti-depressants they made me feel bloody depressed for about a week as they started to kick in. stupid drug wants to kill you before it works/doesnt work.

@WillComp try dropping or increasing by 15 for 2 or 3 days. see if that helps.

Nardil is such a ****ed up drug, never seen anything like it before :/

hope you are all well!

*p.s* the doctor i seen today asked me if i had a medical background or training :grin2: :nerd:


----------



## WillComp

I'm gonna try to reply on my phone. It's usually more of a pain and gets lost before it gets posted. That's happened to me too, V1. I lost a full 4 paragraph post the other day using my phone.. so just went back to bed. I might have tapped something wrong cuz my fingers are super shaky and I get that crazy finger jerk too. Wtf? It's so weird we're all going through the same ****. 

Good to see you posting again, V1. Before my break a few weeks ago I went to a really dark place too. It only lasted a short while though, got really emotional and introspective about my life. I usually don't get that low.. but I may be able to relate to what you went through. Maybe it's something to do with nardil. 

Just realized it's the fingers on my left hand that are shaking, now I'm resorting to typing w/ 1 hand. :no

I saw my dr again today too. He prescribed 75 and wants to follow up in mid October. I'm kinda scared to go up. I'm most worried about the OH. My brother's noticed me walking sideways when I get a spell. If more people start noticing it'll be pretty embarrassing. And the worst would be if I fainted and collapsed in front of someone I know. It worries me like crazy. 

I'm hoping that forcing myself to be active will eventually combat the OH.. and the narcolepsy. Lifting weights was actually easy, I got an adrenaline rush again. But cardio's much tougher. I wanted to post this pic of me about 2 wks ago at the summit of my favorite mountain. It just shows the back of me. While up there I got a trippy white out spell, all trees everywhere turned bright white.. so awesome. :yes


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I'm gonna try to reply on my phone. It's usually more of a pain and gets lost before it gets posted. That's happened to me too, V1. I lost a full 4 paragraph post the other day using my phone.. so just went back to bed. I might have tapped something wrong cuz my fingers are super shaky and I get that crazy finger jerk too. Wtf? It's so weird we're all going through the same ****.
> 
> Good to see you posting again, V1. Before my break a few weeks ago I went to a really dark place too. It only lasted a short while though, got really emotional and introspective about my life. I usually don't get that low.. but I may be able to relate to what you went through. Maybe it's something to do with nardil.
> 
> Just realized it's the fingers on my left hand that are shaking, now I'm resorting to typing w/ 1 hand. :no
> 
> I saw my dr again today too. He prescribed 75 and wants to follow up in mid October. I'm kinda scared to go up. I'm most worried about the OH. My brother's noticed me walking sideways when I get a spell. If more people start noticing it'll be pretty embarrassing. And the worst would be if I fainted and collapsed in front of someone I know. It worries me like crazy.
> 
> I'm hoping that forcing myself to be active will eventually combat the OH.. and the narcolepsy. Lifting weights was actually easy, I got an adrenaline rush again. But cardio's much tougher. I wanted to post this pic of me about 2 wks ago at the summit of my favorite mountain. It just shows the back of me. While up there I got a trippy white out spell, all trees everywhere turned bright white.. so awesome. :yes


ahh looks awesome mate, wish i had somewhere like that to walk to. I know I shouldn't but that cracked me up when you said about walking sideways lol. I could just picture it in my head and it made me chuckle.
I know this doesn't make sense but when does anything on nardil do that? but i think the hypo goes at higher doses, i remember everything did for me but the muscle fatigue. Never could find a way to beat that at higher doses, prob taking another med will but my doc would never give me anything no matter how much i tried.
I only ever noticed an improvement when i dropped my dose down to 45, none of us are ready for a maintenance dose i don't think though.

Maybe our bodies will just adapt but it's going to take a while longer.

Have work today, really not feeling like it at all. I feel like i just wanna lie down and mong all day. I'm gunna have to blag that i'm not feeling well or something, say i've got a cold cos they are sure to notice im not my usual self.

Man why do i have to work!! I have that feeling in my chest that lets me know i'm gunna have heart palpitations today. Hope I perk up in the next hour or so, really don't want to go in feeling like this.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> After i had drunk on saturday I had a strong desire to end it all on the sunday morning. It was a place I hadn't been to for a long time. I'm lucky to have a friend who understands what i go through and he talked me out of it by throwing loads of old great memories at me, it worked quickly and effectively. I went from crying to laughing.


Hi mate, remember you have online friends on here too - just PM me for a chat or call if you feel that way again and your mates are not around. You can turn it around without a doubt either with nardil or without.

I`ll reply to your pm in a bit whne i have bit more time but that TCA I was talking about was trimipramine - I have been on it and it was good for me. RockyRaccoon on here takes it as well currently, if you have any questions.


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> I think I will give nardil a couple more months then try parnate. i'm not giving up on it though, i think if it doesn't fully work when i know it can make me feel awesome, like it did for those 3 days. it may be a good idea to give my body a break from it, give parnate a try. then go back to nardil. I think Parnate is more for depression.
> After i had drunk on saturday I had a strong desire to end it all on the sunday morning. It was a place I hadn't been to for a long time. I'm lucky to have a friend who understands what i go through and he talked me out of it by throwing loads of old great memories at me, it worked quickly and effectively. I went from crying to laughing.
> 
> I haven't been myself lately, you may have all noticed because i stopped posting. I think how i have been feeling was building to that moment. i'm hoping its because nardil is flucking with my brain chemistry and is working to fix it. I remember on all anti-depressants they made me feel bloody depressed for about a week as they started to kick in. stupid drug wants to kill you before it works/doesnt work.


Hey sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon.

You're still lucky to have good friends you can talk to about your feelings, I wish I had that !

Really you should not drink, you probably know it but when you're depressed, it's one of the worst thing you can do. I am usually not suicidal but a few times I seriously thought about killing myself and it was always after I had drunk a lot. Alcohol seriously messes with your neurotransmitters. When I was a teenager I cut myself a few times and it was always under the influence of alcohol. If you really want to drink at least wait until you have found a med that works so your mood is stable.

I agree that maybe you should try something else. Maybe nardil is not for you, at least not at the present moment, given that you have so many SE and very few benefits. Trying parnate may be a good idea, since it has less side effects and it is a very good antidepressant. If you are thinking about ending it then maybe addressing your depression is important.

Also I don't know if you have tried lyrica (pregabalin) but maybe it could help you. I feel really ****ty currently because I may have to stop nardil (which hasn't kick in) and the uncertainty plus the depression makes me really unmotivated, I just don't care about anything anymore and I don't feel like doing anything because I am tired of always being anxious with people around; I really can't take it anymore. Lyrica boosts my mood and reduces my anxiety so I can do things rather than ruminating all day. I feel a little spaced out, like I'm a little drunk, but at least I don't feel to depressed. Maybe it could help you until nardil (or something else) kicks in.

Also maybe you have talked about that before but what your symptoms of social anxiety ? You seem to have a good social circle so I wonder, what are the things that bother you ?


----------



## V1bzz

How is everyone's Nardil journey going this week?

Im at 3 weeks 60mg next Monday 10th. Not really feeling anything yet, a few days ago I did feel it's anti-depressant effects for a few hrs. Felt motivated to go into work, over a few hours though it turned into a day of feeling totally out of energy. I do believe it is working abit, just not the anxiety yet.
I'm starting to get the early wake ups again which is great, it seems to be around 05:45 this time. Was a well restless nights sleep last night so I think I will be returning to the afternoon nap phase whenever possible, especially in this heat.

Anorgasmia is returning and also slight constipation/very slight urinary retention. Have also had a couple of mild spin outs when at work from crouching to standing position. Legs are still damn sore, especially knees and ankles and the swelling comes and goes.

Side effects are not even on the scale compared to that first time, hopefully this way I will be able to feel the benefits more 

I'm tempted to go up to 75mg for a few days to see how it effects the legs/fatigue and general well being.

At least no withdrawal head shocks so far. I stopped sucking them because I felt like it made me more tired. Just bite em in half now and swallow.

Oh, I do get the dry mouth again lately just not super intense like i know it can be where your sucking your lips trying to talk haha


----------



## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> Hey sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon.
> 
> You're still lucky to have good friends you can talk to about your feelings, I wish I had that !
> 
> Really you should not drink, you probably know it but when you're depressed, it's one of the worst thing you can do. I am usually not suicidal but a few times I seriously thought about killing myself and it was always after I had drunk a lot. Alcohol seriously messes with your neurotransmitters. When I was a teenager I cut myself a few times and it was always under the influence of alcohol. If you really want to drink at least wait until you have found a med that works so your mood is stable.
> 
> I agree that maybe you should try something else. Maybe nardil is not for you, at least not at the present moment, given that you have so many SE and very few benefits. Trying parnate may be a good idea, since it has less side effects and it is a very good antidepressant. If you are thinking about ending it then maybe addressing your depression is important.
> 
> Also I don't know if you have tried lyrica (pregabalin) but maybe it could help you. I feel really ****ty currently because I may have to stop nardil (which hasn't kick in) and the uncertainty plus the depression makes me really unmotivated, I just don't care about anything anymore and I don't feel like doing anything because I am tired of always being anxious with people around; I really can't take it anymore. Lyrica boosts my mood and reduces my anxiety so I can do things rather than ruminating all day. I feel a little spaced out, like I'm a little drunk, but at least I don't feel to depressed. Maybe it could help you until nardil (or something else) kicks in.
> 
> Also maybe you have talked about that before but what your symptoms of social anxiety ? You seem to have a good social circle so I wonder, what are the things that bother you ?


Hey, I wish I had a social circle, only way I get to connect with friends is through Facebook. I never go out or have anyone to go out with or am ever asked to go out with anyone, not even family really. TBH though i'm still at a place where I don't want to go out, so if one of my friends did randomly ask me to do something I would likely turn them day, say i'm busy or what have you. I feel like I can't go out and not drink just to be able to not feel like **** cos of the anxiety, same even with family. I have as much anxiety around them, talking to them as I do anyone else, maybe worse sometimes. I think if it wasn't for fffffffacebook, writing it like that just incase they block the word. I would be totally alone with nobody to talk to....oh and of course now this forum too :smile2:

I won't go out drinking again now for a long time, some times I just think it would be nice to feel totally relaxed. I went out with my nephew and a couple of his friends who i know to talk about his marriage plans, they all just made me feel really uncomfortable and i got angry told them that they were pissing me off and to fluck off and walked off. That and how too much alcohol makes you feel sent me over the edge I guess. I ended up just staying out on my own as usual, can't remember where i went though, hate that, another reason I don't like to drink. I can usually take their nonsense and give it as much as i get but being totally blanked by my nephews girlfriend really f'ing annoyed me. why was she there in the first place? was supposed to be the guys discussing things and she turns up and totally blanks/ignores everything i say, doesn't even acknowledge that i'm talking by looking at me. I would usually just sit there and feel like crap and go quiet, i did but then i got pissed off and left.
I totally feel like I have no time for my nephew and her now, i don't want to see them or speak to them.

Woke up totally miserable the next day, contacted them, she told me to grow up and blocked me on fffffacebook lol.
I have seen moments of her nastiness and have now seen what she is really like.

So, thats what that was all about, another moment of feeling like a piece of **** worthless human being and being made to feel like that from family friends and family. The friends apologized to me, shame my nephew and the ***** couldn't. Of course it was my fault lol


----------



## V1bzz

I was sat in the doctors surgery today in the main waiting room and I felt ok!
The anxiety was there, just not as intense you know.

It wasn't rammed busy but even if it was I think I would have been far from a panic attack.

PROGRESS!! me likes progress, yup I does. I was moving my leg to the music, singing a little bit, it was only when I started to do my leg shaking restless thing that i felt increased anxiety and awareness.

For any of you that is new to the thread. Doctors surgery is usually a high anxiety situation for me, I used to have palpitations just walking in and then massive panic attack after being there a few minutes.

Hopefully soon I will be walking in like this dude, giving zero flucks :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

> Also I don't know if you have tried lyrica (pregabalin) but maybe it could help you. I feel really ****ty currently because I may have to stop nardil (which hasn't kick in) and the uncertainty plus the depression makes me really unmotivated, I just don't care about anything anymore and I don't feel like doing anything because I am tired of always being anxious with people around; I really can't take it anymore. Lyrica boosts my mood and reduces my anxiety so I can do things rather than ruminating all day. I feel a little spaced out, like I'm a little drunk, but at least I don't feel to depressed. Maybe it could help you until nardil (or something else) kicks in.
> 
> Also maybe you have talked about that before but what your symptoms of social anxiety ? You seem to have a good social circle so I wonder, what are the things that bother you ?


I forgot to reply to this bit @Cassoulet94 please don't give up on nardil, if it doesnt work with how you are doing it now, drop down and start again a different way. how long have you been on it and is not not helping anything at all?

I can tell you are feeling the nardil energy sucking stage, i'm in it too at the moment, i have little to no motivation to do anything at the moment. everything just feels like an effort, huffing and puffing.

I hated it when i was on pregab, made me feel like crapola and tired all damn day and didn't help with anxiety for me.

I don't know how to describe my anxiety, it's always there bugging me. I broke my brain about 18yrs ago and can remember when everything changed for me, it was from excessive drug use, in particular a substance called bass, which is a purer form of speed, like a putty type substance.

My parents always thought i was just a lazy bum for years because i didn't want to do anything they asked. water the garden, go shopping anything and everything...it was because of anxiety.
Unfortunately what I suffer from can't ever be fixed, i'm just hoping to get some relief from it so i can start to enjoy life again, do simple things like take up an activity, join a gym, go shopping, go to the cinema, eat out etc.
I just can't do anything.

I would just like to be able to do things, like, just jump in the car one day and go to the beach and not have to find a place where there are no people to be able to relax. would actually be awesome to be near people and chat to them and have a laugh like i used to do before i broke myself. I used to make friends everywhere i went, was the social one who was silly and done silly things, the one who didn't care what people thought. Always had girls interested in him, always had people wanting to do stuff with him. I don't have anything like that now, i'm single sad and lonely lol, probably the correct name for that is a loser 

The only time I got relief from pregab was when i overdosed on it, the next day i had zero anxiety but couldn't walk in a straight bloody line and looked like a wreck.

Please try mixing it up a little bit with your nardil routine, it's not like normal drugs where you take it and can forget about it. it's got to be played with to get it working sometimes. This is my 3rd try in about 4 or 5 months now. 1st time was hell, it was all about the side effects with one day of anxiety relief during that time.
second time I had 3 days of feeling awesome (so I know it works) but then my body rejected it for some reason and I did a full withdrawal, not by choice.

This is my 3rd time now and I think i'm starting to get relief 4 weeks in, on and off relief.

I think with Nardil its too good of an opportunity to get better to give up.

What dose you on and maybe we can come up with a plan to try and get it working better, or 'shock it' into working as i like to call it.
I would say to bite them in half and swallow them for now, giving your body a better chance for it to get into the system. See how you are feeling in a week and go from there....

I boosted up to 75 today and defo feel improved mood, will do the same tomorrow then drop back down to 60. I want to give my body at least a month there before moving up to 75 full time.


----------



## WillComp

Agree with V1 - everyone should stick it out with nardil. Some people feel relief after 4 months or less; for others it takes much longer. Just give it some time and try not to think about quitting. 

When Nardil kicks in, you feel like a different person. It's like you're living in a dream and SA doesn't bother you anymore. You feel much happier, relaxed and full of confidence. Not in every situation, but I'd say in about 90% of situations that used to cause anxiety and panic. 

My outlook has changed too. Of course I'm more grateful since nardil's changing my life at the moment, and I also feel good about myself. How could I not when I've been sick with anxiety my entire life. I realize I'll always be that socially awkward nerd who can't put 2 sentences together and has an abysmal vocabulary, especially when talking with someone. I have terrible social skills, and I'm single and don't have any friends... but now I'm okay with it. It would be nice to meet someone in the future who I could call a friend, but now I can make it along fine with online friends.  

I own the fact that I'm a nonconformist and don't conform to what everyone else thinks is cool. I live life my own way, do thinks that make me happy, try to be kind and helpful to people without any strings attached, and I think that makes me a real and genuine person. 

I think if everyone stuck it out, there's a high likelihood of nardil eventually kicking in. I'm not sure why I'm going up to 75 starting on Sunday, it could screw everything up for me but I've decided to take that risk. 

V1 - what does it feel like when you go up to 75 for the first time? I'm a bit worried about that. I'm a wuss when it comes to increasing dosage. You're a lot braver than me. It sounds like you're slowly starting to feel the relief. For me it was very subtle and then eventually I noticed I never became overly anxious anymore and could do things I would never dream of. 

I'm hoping that happens to all you guys who haven't felt the real benefits yet. Crossing my fingers, legs, sore acidic arms and everything else for you all! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Agree with V1 - everyone should stick it out with nardil. Some people feel relief after 4 months or less; for others it takes much longer. Just give it some time and try not to think about quitting.
> 
> When Nardil kicks in, you feel like a different person. It's like you're living in a dream and SA doesn't bother you anymore. You feel much happier, relaxed and full of confidence. Not in every situation, but I'd say in about 90% of situations that used to cause anxiety and panic.
> 
> My outlook has changed too. Of course I'm more grateful since nardil's changing my life at the moment, and I also feel good about myself. How could I not when I've been sick with anxiety my entire life. I realize I'll always be that socially awkward nerd who can't put 2 sentences together and has an abysmal vocabulary, especially when talking with someone. I have terrible social skills, and I'm single and don't have any friends... but now I'm okay with it. It would be nice to meet someone in the future who I could call a friend, but now I can make it along fine with online friends.
> 
> I own the fact that I'm a nonconformist and don't conform to what everyone else thinks is cool. I live life my own way, do thinks that make me happy, try to be kind and helpful to people without any strings attached, and I think that makes me a real and genuine person.
> 
> I think if everyone stuck it out, there's a high likelihood of nardil eventually kicking in. I'm not sure why I'm going up to 75 starting on Sunday, it could screw everything up for me but I've decided to take that risk.
> 
> V1 - what does it feel like when you go up to 75 for the first time? I'm a bit worried about that. I'm a wuss when it comes to increasing dosage. You're a lot braver than me. It sounds like you're slowly starting to feel the relief. For me it was very subtle and then eventually I noticed I never became overly anxious anymore and could do things I would never dream of.
> 
> I'm hoping that happens to all you guys who haven't felt the real benefits yet. Crossing my fingers, legs, sore acidic arms and everything else for you all! :grin2:


Hey mate, well today I felt nothing but an improved mood when I took 75mg 
First time I went up to 75 was when i was having the terrible side effects, I felt an immediate dopamine hit, increased fatigue for a little bit but other than that I seemed to lose all the side effects, haven't really felt them since, not the ones that made me really sick anyway. Of course I'm still getting the tiredness and stupid fatigue but apart from that, nothing. I think 75 is the turning point for side effects, or maybe it was just the timing.

We are all different though, I would say go for it, if you don't like how you feel after a few days you can always just drop back down.

christ just took off my socks and have a crazy indentation on my right leg, wondered why they felt so sore again. it clears up then comes back again. If it doesn't stop they are seriously going to take me off nardil!!
Apart from my damn legs I feel pretty good today from the 75 :nerd: :smile2:

I met a really nice doctor the other day, she was giving me a check up for the psychiatrist to make sure it was side effects on my legs and not.. arg can't remember what she called it, thrombosis?
I wish i had her from the start, she would have given me so much help the first time. she told me that if my legs swelled again I had to walk into the doctors surgery and see a doctor. I'm not going to though, im not being forced to be taken off nardil at this point. I feel like i'm finally getting somewhere. The doctors have tried already and I outright refused. They can't take me off if im willing to endure the pain but if it becomes a medical risk i will be forced off. that would be just my luck that would!


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Hey mate, well today I felt nothing but an improved mood when I took 75mg
> First time I went up to 75 was when i was having the terrible side effects, I felt an immediate dopamine hit, increased fatigue for a little bit but other than that I seemed to lose all the side effects, haven't really felt them since, not the ones that made me really sick anyway. Of course I'm still getting the tiredness and stupid fatigue but apart from that, nothing. I think 75 is the turning point for side effects, or maybe it was just the timing.
> 
> We are all different though, I would say go for it, if you don't like how you feel after a few days you can always just drop back down.
> 
> christ just took off my socks and have a crazy indentation on my right leg, wondered why they felt so sore again. it clears up then comes back again. If it doesn't stop they are seriously going to take me off nardil!!
> Apart from my damn legs I feel pretty good today from the 75 :nerd: :smile2:
> 
> I met a really nice doctor the other day, she was giving me a check up for the psychiatrist to make sure it was side effects on my legs and not.. arg can't remember what she called it, thrombosis?
> I wish i had her from the start, she would have given me so much help the first time. she told me that if my legs swelled again I had to walk into the doctors surgery and see a doctor. I'm not going to though, im not being forced to be taken off nardil at this point. I feel like i'm finally getting somewhere. The doctors have tried already and I outright refused. They can't take me off if im willing to endure the pain but if it becomes a medical risk i will be forced off. that would be just my luck that would!


That would be awesome if 75 was the turning point for my side effects too. I also read from someone else that the first few days after an increase you feel an extra high boost (mania) which normalizes after a few more days. Maybe I should wait 2 weeks so it falls in the same week I have to train the hot temp. Lol

V1,have you tried something like this for your legs? It supposedly gets rid of swelling and feels good on your legs. Gets good reviews too.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/4400548428267912735?q=leg+stockings+for+thrombosis&prmd=ivns&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR__H7xfjUAhVIKiYKHaEJAfQQ8wIIDzAB
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> That would be awesome if 75 was the turning point for my side effects too. I also read from someone else that the first few days after an increase you feel an extra high boost (mania) which normalizes after a few more days. Maybe I should wait 2 weeks so it falls in the same week I have to train the hot temp. Lol
> 
> V1,have you tried something like this for your legs? It supposedly gets rid of swelling and feels good on your legs. Gets good reviews too.
> 
> https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...ved=0ahUKEwjR__H7xfjUAhVIKiYKHaEJAfQQ8wIIDzAB
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm interesting, think i will grab a pair and give them a go.
Christ, you would think i was an old man all the crap im getting since i have been on nardil.

If I remember i will take a photo of the indentation when i take my socks off. hmm i really should take my socks off to be fair. My legs look in sh!t state lol :b


----------



## WillComp

You'd think I was an old man too with all these side effects. I look like the old guy, starting to gain weight, veins poppin up everyone, hands shaking, getting up slowly out of the car and standing in one place for 20 seconds, walking sideways, and nodding off throughout the day. :yawn I feel like I could sleep for 5 straight days - I'm exhausted. 

I thought these sides were subsiding but they keep popping up again. Has anyone here gotten the myoclonic jerks? This just appeared out of nowhere for me in the last week. I get these jerks throughout the whole day, 1 random jerk here and there. And it's beginning to get more noticeable. 

I was praying it wouldn't happen in the restaurant last night with my dad, but surely enough, bam - it happened. And my dad looked over at me with another concerned look, like 'whatever f'in drug you're on you need to get off now'. He didn't say anything but all these weird sides have to be adding up in his head. :O

Thank god it's Saturday. I wonder if sleeping all day would get rid of these sides. Sleep morning to evening; take walk outside with my earbuds on; go back to bed. Sounds like a productive Saturday.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> You'd think I was an old man too with all these side effects. I look like the old guy, starting to gain weight, veins poppin up everyone, hands shaking, getting up slowly out of the car and standing in one place for 20 seconds, walking sideways, and nodding off throughout the day. :yawn I feel like I could sleep for 5 straight days - I'm exhausted.
> 
> I thought these sides were subsiding but they keep popping up again. Has anyone here gotten the myoclonic jerks? This just appeared out of nowhere for me in the last week. I get these jerks throughout the whole day, 1 random jerk here and there. And it's beginning to get more noticeable.
> 
> I was praying it wouldn't happen in the restaurant last night with my dad, but surely enough, bam - it happened. And my dad looked over at me with another concerned look, like 'whatever f'in drug you're on you need to get off now'. He didn't say anything but all these weird sides have to be adding up in his head. :O
> 
> Thank god it's Saturday. I wonder if sleeping all day would get rid of these sides. Sleep morning to evening; take walk outside with my earbuds on; go back to bed. Sounds like a productive Saturday.


I meant to say to you before that you going up in dose will be totally different for you than it was for me. I expect you will feel awesome for a few days.
When I had those 3 days of it working, it was like i was taking another drug, for example. The first time around, about an hour after taking the dose i would feel like crap, hypo would kick in with every other thing to ruin my day.
Now, when i took nardil when it was working them 3 days, about an hour after taking i would feel on top of the world, just great. I could finally feel what i was supposed to feel after taking my dose. but alas, after 3 days it done a forced withdrawal on me. god only knows why.

Now here I am 3rd try, waiting to get back to that place of glory, really can't wait to feel that great again but every single freakin day. Hope, because me and nardil don't really get on, I don't think i would talk to him in real life LOL, Hoping I can feel that again soon. No head shocks so far this time which is the sign of withdraw for me on nardil so fingers crossed i am close to that place again.

Man i was planning so much **** to do in my head, get a well paid office job working around people, one with hot babes every where, joining a gym. man i just wanted to do sh!t again.
really cant wait for it to hit me again.

Last time it hit i had awesome body rushes for a day or two before, so i'm waiting for that. it's just in my hands at the moment.

back to your post...mate do it, take a day of rest, i have just woke up from a 3hour nap. got up at 07:15 then took a nap at about 12 - 3pm lol. such a wasted day but fluck it, our bodies need these days of rest.
Not had those jerks through the day that i can remember, just always the weird finger tap which seems to have calmed a bit lately.

Was the jerk in your head also, like you blacked out or something for a millasecond? I had that but it passed after a couple of weeks. didn't like that, was scary stuff when it would happen while driving. its like your body suddenly goes into massive shock for way less than a second. very odd indeed. not sure if my body jerked, my memory is letting me down again. i think its possible it did but it was most intense in my brain.

too hard to explain it really.

Can you not tell your dad your on medication? tell him it sometimes has weird side effects but the positives far out weigh that.

I was kinda forced to tell my parents, i had kept it all secret until nardil but knew they would be able to tell i was on something and i was right haha.

wonder how @Tandorini @SFC01 @watertouch @Cassoulet94 are doing???

damn watertouch asked me every day for about two weeks if i got morning wood on nardil, now he has disappeared and I feel so used! :crying: :grin2: >


----------



## V1bzz

> walking sideways




That still gets me!


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> Hey, I wish I had a social circle, only way I get to connect with friends is through Facebook. I never go out or have anyone to go out with or am ever asked to go out with anyone, not even family really. TBH though i'm still at a place where I don't want to go out, so if one of my friends did randomly ask me to do something I would likely turn them day, say i'm busy or what have you. I feel like I can't go out and not drink just to be able to not feel like **** cos of the anxiety, same even with family. I have as much anxiety around them, talking to them as I do anyone else, maybe worse sometimes. I think if it wasn't for fffffffacebook, writing it like that just incase they block the word. I would be totally alone with nobody to talk to....oh and of course now this forum too :smile2:
> 
> I won't go out drinking again now for a long time, some times I just think it would be nice to feel totally relaxed. I went out with my nephew and a couple of his friends who i know to talk about his marriage plans, they all just made me feel really uncomfortable and i got angry told them that they were pissing me off and to fluck off and walked off. That and how too much alcohol makes you feel sent me over the edge I guess. I ended up just staying out on my own as usual, can't remember where i went though, hate that, another reason I don't like to drink. I can usually take their nonsense and give it as much as i get but being totally blanked by my nephews girlfriend really f'ing annoyed me. why was she there in the first place? was supposed to be the guys discussing things and she turns up and totally blanks/ignores everything i say, doesn't even acknowledge that i'm talking by looking at me. I would usually just sit there and feel like crap and go quiet, i did but then i got pissed off and left.
> I totally feel like I have no time for my nephew and her now, i don't want to see them or speak to them.
> 
> Woke up totally miserable the next day, contacted them, she told me to grow up and blocked me on fffffacebook lol.
> I have seen moments of her nastiness and have now seen what she is really like.
> 
> So, thats what that was all about, another moment of feeling like a piece of **** worthless human being and being made to feel like that from family friends and family. The friends apologized to me, shame my nephew and the ***** couldn't. Of course it was my fault lol


Hey man,

You're not the first to behave like a fool while being drunk, I have done it so many time; I know the feeling, when, you wake up and you feel so ashamed and worthless. The shame will fade with time, I know it's easier said than done but try to forget that, it's meaningless. What you do when you're drunk is not the reflect of your personality. When you're anxious and depressed all time it's normal to try to escape that feeling, even if it's sometime a mistake to use alcohol for that.

I don't know your life, but maybe if some people are toxic you should try to remove them of your life,a t leas temporarily, so you can concentrate on what is important.

Alcohol feels good but if you cross the line you tend to unleash what's inside, the anger, the frustration, the sadness. If there is someone you don't like around, it's likely that you'll just go of the rails and things will get nasty. I have been there many times lol. I have also been locked up in a police station with a broken nose, no tee shirt and no remembrance of what happen ! I was singing super loud in the cell and I made chicken noises every time a cop was passing by lol. I think the mix effexor + alcohol made me complexity maniac. It's like a lottery, sometimes alcohol makes me super chill and sometimes I just get super hostile and I let go all the frustration I have inside. Also I lost friends and offended a lot of people while drunk. I hate alcohol and in the same time I love it also because it gives me so much confidence and I can get girls pretty easily, while it's almost impossible when I'm sober.

Weird that you changed so much. I don't believe you can't be fixed, I think it's the depression talking.

My doc and I decided that I will stop nardil because of the vascular side effect. Too bad because except that I did not have any side effects at all. I think I would have had to hit 75mg or 90mg to really have benefits I tend to respond to high doses of medications. I'll try a SSRI since they work a little for ma and I will try to augment it with lyrica, maybe a stimulant like ritalin for motivation and my ADHD, and maybe an AP if it doesn't work. Also I will try a group therapy for social anxiety and continue my acting class.

Don't give up, I really think that you have to go and do things even if you don't feel the need because if you stay at home all the time to tend to disconnect from life and to feel like you don't belong anymore. Did you try group therapy, or acting class for shy people (or normal acting class, that's what I did and it helped a lot to feel connect again, and to have a goal). Really meds are important but don't put all your hope in them, group therapy and social activities exposure are also extremely useful even if you don't feel like doing it.

Good luck don't lose hope :smile2:

I just took 900mg of lyrica lol now heading to the bar, see you !


----------



## Shai Hulud

Cassoulet94;1090222825
My doc and I decided that I will stop nardil because of the vascular side effect[/QUOTE said:


> What are the vascular side effects?


----------



## jaiho

Is Agmatine still helping v1bzz?


----------



## V1bzz

jaiho said:


> Is Agmatine still helping v1bzz?


Hey, I ran out a couple of weeks ago and haven't missed it or noticed it not doing anything. Thinking about it i wonder if it was holding nardil back, the nardil seems to be working into my system nicely now. where as my body rejected nardil while i was on agmatine.

I think nardil is working for me now, building up in my system. it could be that i boosted to 75 yesterday and today. I will go back to 60mg tomorrow. I noticed earlier that i was out the front just chatting sh!t to my neighbour. usually im really conscious and cant get my words out and feel really anxious that people may be looking at me from their houses. I'm feeling pretty good today, just stupidly tired and have no energy. I would say I am doing better without agmatine and it is very possible it made my body reject nardil.

I don't think there are any success stories so far for agmatine with nardil but there are a couple for parnate.

Have you tried it at all?


----------



## Cassoulet94

Shai Hulud said:


> Cassoulet94;1090222825
> My doc and I decided that I will stop nardil because of the vascular side effect[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the vascular side effects?
> 
> 
> 
> I have petechiae all over my body except on the face. There is only a few of them but they appeared exactly when I started nardil. Also I have a lot of spider veins now and one month ago (when I started nardil) I had none. So I don t know if it s nardil but my plateys are normal and I don t see what else it could be. Yes spiders veins can come when you get older but not that fast.
> 
> I don t want to look like an alcoholicxin a few months so I decided to stop and my doc agreed.
Click to expand...


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> wonder how @*Tandorini* @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Cassoulet94* are doing???


Hi Mate, sorry I aint been around for much what with the sunny weather and all, staring at woman etc but yes, I`m good thanks - the amitriptyline is still doing a great job along with nardil, I really do recommend it for anyone who is not quite getting there with nardil alone - and its also cleared up my elbow pain which why I took it in the first place.

Good to hear nardil maybe working again. You working this week ?

As for @*watertouch* , now that he has got all his wanking material from us and our stories of morning wood - he'll be busy for a few weeks 

*@Cassoulet94*, 900mg lyrica - thats my boy  Its a great buzz when you get to that dose and it used to last all day for me. May have to go back to the doc ask for lyrica for my elbow pain, tell her amitriptyline is good but not quite good enough !!


----------



## Tandorini

Just a quick reply - thanks for asking how I am. I have been busy with family visiting, so haven't logged on to the forum for a while. The last visitors left yesterday though, so I'll have more time to myself again. But now I'm off to work, so gonna have to catch up later. Have a nice day, you guys


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi Mate, sorry I aint been around for much what with the sunny weather and all, staring at woman etc but yes, I`m good thanks - the amitriptyline is still doing a great job along with nardil, I really do recommend it for anyone who is not quite getting there with nardil alone - and its also cleared up my elbow pain which why I took it in the first place.
> 
> Good to hear nardil maybe working again. You working this week ?
> 
> As for @*watertouch* , now that he has got all his wanking material from us and our stories of morning wood - he'll be busy for a few weeks
> 
> *@Cassoulet94*, 900mg lyrica - thats my boy  Its a great buzz when you get to that dose and it used to last all day for me. May have to go back to the doc ask for lyrica for my elbow pain, tell her amitriptyline is good but not quite good enough !!


What is the standard dose for pregab? i cant remember. swear i was nowhere near 900mg though lol, more like 75 or summin, canne remember with my memory. No wonder it didnt work at such a low dose for me then.

how the fluck can you walk in a straight line at 900mg? :grin2:
@SFC01 yeah figured it was the nice weather and you being a perve. I would do the same if i could stand the damn heat. I'm a sun lover usually but the heat is wiping me out on nardil.

Funny thing for ya, i have been doing 75 for the last 3 days, done usual 60 today and i swear the body fatigue, sluggishness is less up there. well not a funny thing but you know what i mean.

I've dropped back down because i don't want to make mistakes of old and rush chit. will do a month or so at 60, maybe longer before hitting 75 for good.

Was really anxious today when i went to the library so having an off day today. it could have been enhanced though because i knew i was about to do something in there on the sly. install a program on my USB, that's a big no no, nearly got it done but was stopped by it asking me for admin username and password doh!!

Still feeling really lazy, just can't be arsed to do anything really. lazy ******* > hope it passes soon.

oh @WillComp, that weird narcolepsy thing has passed for me already  been taking naps though


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Just a quick reply - thanks for asking how I am. I have been busy with family visiting, so haven't logged on to the forum for a while. The last visitors left yesterday though, so I'll have more time to myself again. But now I'm off to work, so gonna have to catch up later. Have a nice day, you guys


Have a good one and don't be a stranger! :smile2:


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz, glad your narcolepsy thing has passed. I'm still dealing with it but it's encouraging to hear that it passes - maybe I just have a few more weeks. 

This is the most awake I've felt in 4 days. Yesterday was a weird day.. I took a klonopin in the morning right before work, just because I hadn't had one in a few days and didn't want any withdraw symptoms. Shortly after getting to work, the klonopin (along with the 75 mg of nardil) wiped me out. I call it narcolepsy because I saw a commercial recently for a narcolepsy drug where people would suddenly fall asleep in random places.. and they looked exactly like me.. lol. 

Anyway, when I started nodding off yesterday, I couldn't stay awake. I had an important project to work on too. It was different this time though. Instead of realizing I was about to nod off, I would start typing and a few minutes later I would wake up. It was like a seamless transition from awake to sleep. This lasted about 45 minutes; fell asleep about a dozen times without realizing it until I woke up. I kept telling myself I need to stand up but I was too damn sleepy. Then I fell asleep again and immediately woke up as my head was falling towards my desk. Hopefully no one noticed me throughout that hour and hopefully there's no cameras up here looking in my office. 

So as soon as I woke up, I quickly got up, said 'F this" and took a walk around the halls. Came back and nearly fell asleep again. So I reached for a caffeine pill - I wanted to hold off on these till later in the day - and within 30 minutes of taking the pill I was wide awake. Crazy how effective it was.. and I stayed awake the entire day. 

Still dealing with OH too.. and walking sideways. :grin2: And those random jerks. I started 75 on Sunday, so this is Day 3 of 75. I'm not going any higher; this is the highest dose I'll go, no matter what. 

Well, gotta get back to work - way too busy. Wish I had more time to post. Will try from home later .. sometime during the All-Star game.. if I can stay awake. :lol


----------



## phebus

WillComp said:


> V1bzz, glad your narcolepsy thing has passed. I'm still dealing with it but it's encouraging to hear that it passes - maybe I just have a few more weeks.
> 
> This is the most awake I've felt in 4 days. Yesterday was a weird day.. I took a klonopin in the morning right before work, just because I hadn't had one in a few days and didn't want any withdraw symptoms. Shortly after getting to work, the klonopin (along with the 75 mg of nardil) wiped me out. I call it narcolepsy because I saw a commercial recently for a narcolepsy drug where people would suddenly fall asleep in random places.. and they looked exactly like me.. lol.
> 
> Anyway, when I started nodding off yesterday, I couldn't stay awake. I had an important project to work on too. It was different this time though. Instead of realizing I was about to nod off, I would start typing and a few minutes later I would wake up. It was like a seamless transition from awake to sleep. This lasted about 45 minutes; fell asleep about a dozen times without realizing it until I woke up. I kept telling myself I need to stand up but I was too damn sleepy. Then I fell asleep again and immediately woke up as my head was falling towards my desk. Hopefully no one noticed me throughout that hour and hopefully there's no cameras up here looking in my office.
> 
> So as soon as I woke up, I quickly got up, said 'F this" and took a walk around the halls. Came back and nearly fell asleep again. So I reached for a caffeine pill - I wanted to hold off on these till later in the day - and within 30 minutes of taking the pill I was wide awake. Crazy how effective it was.. and I stayed awake the entire day.
> 
> Still dealing with OH too.. and walking sideways. :grin2: And those random jerks. I started 75 on Sunday, so this is Day 3 of 75. I'm not going any higher; this is the highest dose I'll go, no matter what.
> 
> Well, gotta get back to work - way too busy. Wish I had more time to post. Will try from home later .. sometime during the All-Star game.. if I can stay awake. :lol


Hey Willcomp
I've experienced the samething as you described with nodding off. It happened to me at 75mg of Nardil as well, i think it's a side effect and for an hour or so in the afternoon I could barely function and I often ended up having a nap. Imagine if it happened when you were in a meeting or something: "Simon are you feeling ok?", "Yeah just a bit sleepy I can barely keep my eyes open", "You don't look so good do you need to see a doctor?", "Nah I'm fine it's just a side effect of my medication for treatment resistent major depression and anxiety" haha . Seriously the daytime fatigue went away after I went down to 60mg. Hope all is good with ya buddie. :nerd:


----------



## Tandorini

Thought I'd give a report on my side effects. Been on 60 mg for 5.5 months now. 

First of all: Nardil works for me. I am not depressed. I don't feel joy or very much satisfaction, but I don't struggle coping from day to day anymore. 

My ortostatic hypotension is mostly gone. I get it from time to time, but then again, I sometimes experienced it even before Nardil, so I can't really blame everything on the medication. I'd go as far as to say that OH as a side effect has passed.

Fatigue. Well. My life doesn't depend on afternoon naps anymore, but I certainly don't have all the energy I used to have. I tire easily (but leaving some of that for the next paragraph), but then again, I have made a habit of having afternoon naps/rests now, so my body expects it I suppose. I certainly have less physical energy than I used to, but it is loads better than it was.

Muscle weakness/lactic acid. That's still a pain. I am seeing a psychomotoric (physical therapist) for that now. The theory I (we) have now is that I am very tense, and that I subconciously am using my muscles all the time, hence building up that lactic acid. I have tried Oxazepam a few nights and felt better in the morning, which contributes to the theory about me not relaxing my muscles enough. The physical therapist and I are working on relaxation tecniques, hopefully it will solve some of the problem. This is a major problem for me, but I am coping okay, making new habits, new routines on how to do stuff. Take the elevator instead of the stairs, sitting down in the shower if I am really tired, catching the bus instead of walking, taking breaks often.

Sleep. I have been waking up really early ever since I started Nardil. Feeling refreshed at 5 am, forcing myself to stay in bed until at least six. I have had four good nights in a row now, but I don't dare to feel optimistic. For the past few months my nights have mostly been like this: Fall asleep at 10.30. Wake up at 11.30, going back to sleep. Waking up at 3 am, struggling to sleep. Sleeping for ten minutes at a time between 3 and whatever time I eventually give up. 

Myoclonic jerks/twitching. Better than what it was, but it varies from day to day. I only get these jerks while really well relaxed, which means they can interfere with my sleep/naps. So they don't interfere with work or social stuff. I have been wondering if these jerks may contribute to my poor sleep (that they wake me up), but I haven't investigated into it.

Going through it all I see that I actually do have more side effects than what I thought initially when I started to write this post. I thought I'd give a summary of how everything is a lot better, really. So I think that it's mostly about me being accostumed to my body being like this now. The OH is mostly gone so that I don't fall and injure myself anymore (well, it happened last about 3 weeks ago, but it's quite rare now), and the other stuff I am getting more and more used to.

I have been working more, and the gym has a reduced time table because of the summer holidays, so I haven't really been missing working out that much. I have also been a lot more with my friends, which makes time pass quickly. My everyday activity level is a bit different than what it was before Nardil, but I still lead a fairly active life.

I am seing my new psychiatrist in 5-6 weeks. I am not sure if I may want to increase to 75 mg. I mean, I am okay now, but Nardil has had such an amazing effect, that I really would like to investigate further, to see if I can get even better. Actually feel some joy.


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp - the sleep thing went when i went up to 75 i think but as @phebus said it was different for him/her and they felt it more at 75, i guess you just gotta try it to find out. @Tandorini i reckon the same goes for you, you won't know until you try it.

I think it's weird how i went from having every side effect to none really now. also being able to switch between whatever dose i feel like and not feel much difference at all, i think i felt less fatigued for the 4 days i was taking 75.
I didn't need to take a nap yesterday and didn't feel tired at all for the whole day. Maybe it will kick back in now though i have dropped back down to 60? we will see.
Hoping my body is in a better state for Nardil to be able to work properly this time, i think first time I was just too ill. @Tandorini the lactic acid thing was also a killer for me first time, now i don't get it.
I just have fat hippo legs which is painful and makes me move about like a ftard quite often. @WillComp - did notice at the doctors surgery the other day that when i have been sitting for a while, when i walk im abit sideways too at the start lol. walk ike a total loon for about 5 metres haha.
oh, 2nd time i had the hand shakes really bad but this time don't even have that often, very rare. also the twitching finger has calmed down and the night jerks i get when falling asleep are very mild now, no kicking the end of the bed full force and being in pain for 10 minutes or waking up during the night from a massive twisting jolt.

All in all i'm feeling pretty good health wise this time. Lack of motivation is still an issue though, first time I had tons of the stuff but was too ill, go figure!


----------



## Shai Hulud

I had the exact same problems when I took Nardil the first time. 
Things to consider :
- Make sure you can sleep. If necessary, use Doxepin / Trazodone or a combination of both. 
- this could be energy / blood sugar related. Either because Nardil can cause Hypoglycemia, but also because it can cause sugar cravings. Spikes in insulin / blood sugar will activate neuronal nitric oxide synthase, which will downregulate brain mitochondrial activity. This is a protective mechanism, as massive energy production through mitochondria in the brain will result in oxidative stress. This downregulation is one reason one can get tired. It's the same as after a high carbohydrate meal. Avoiding high sugar/refined carb meals will help

- low blood pressure. Check this. If it is a problem, take a beta blocker with your Nardil dose, it will level fluctuations out


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> wonder how @*watertouch* are doing???
> 
> damn watertouch asked me every day for about two weeks if i got morning wood on nardil, now he has disappeared and I feel so used! :crying: :grin2: >


Thanks for asking! Im doing kinda ok but Ive strained my back and such+ the summer heat is brutal.

Ohh please, you liked the attention! :grin2:


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> As for @*watertouch* , now that he has got all his wanking material from us and our stories of morning wood - he'll be busy for a few weeks


Its funny because its true...:wink2:

Now with the Testosterone kicking in ive been playing around with my CoC to much and hurt myself, gonna have to dial that down abit. :um

*CoC *as in *Captains of Crush *(grippers)
Strongman Magnus Samuelsson closing the CoC#4 gripper.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Thanks for asking! Im doing kinda ok but Ive strained my back and such+ the summer heat is brutal.
> 
> Ohh please, you liked the attention! :grin2:


Hmm, all this talk about morning wood and now you have strained your back. It's weird. I feel like it could be related in some way? 

jokes aside, sore backs really suck ***. hope you get past it soon matey.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Its funny because its true...:wink2:
> 
> Now with the Testosterone kicking in ive been playing around with my CoC to much and hurt myself, gonna have to dial that down abit. :um
> 
> *CoC *as in *Captains of Crush *(grippers)
> Strongman Magnus Samuelsson closing the CoC#4 gripper.


----------



## V1bzz

Have decided to go up to 75mg, it's been 3 1/2 weeks at 60 and i defo feel better physically at 75 than i do at 60.

Thats it, do or die dose, will just leave it now and hope for full effects


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Have decided to go up to 75mg, it's been 3 1/2 weeks at 60 and i defo feel better physically at 75 than i do at 60.
> 
> Thats it, do or die dose, will just leave it now and hope for full effects


This is my do or die dose too. In the last week I've definitely noticed a dip in the positive effects. My mood is down, I'm more irritable and my SA is creeping back up. I don't think it has anything to do with going up to 75 (I'm only on day 5 of 75). It was just starting to dip during my last days on 60, I just didn't want to admit it to myself. I asked my brother, who I live with, and he said he's noticed a 180 in the last week. :no Hoping the 75 kicks in soon. I was so frustrated this morning I decided not to take a klonopin even though I have a staff meeting in less than an hour. I wanna see how I do. If I think about it, my anxiety levels increase; if I don't think about it I'm fine. I've never been to a staff meeting before without a klonopin so this should be interesting. :sigh


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Thought I'd give a report on my side effects. Been on 60 mg for 5.5 months now.
> 
> First of all: Nardil works for me. I am not depressed. I don't feel joy or very much satisfaction, but I don't struggle coping from day to day anymore.
> 
> My ortostatic hypotension is mostly gone. I get it from time to time, but then again, I sometimes experienced it even before Nardil, so I can't really blame everything on the medication. I'd go as far as to say that OH as a side effect has passed.
> 
> Fatigue. Well. My life doesn't depend on afternoon naps anymore, but I certainly don't have all the energy I used to have. I tire easily (but leaving some of that for the next paragraph), but then again, I have made a habit of having afternoon naps/rests now, so my body expects it I suppose. I certainly have less physical energy than I used to, but it is loads better than it was.
> 
> Muscle weakness/lactic acid. That's still a pain. I am seeing a psychomotoric (physical therapist) for that now. The theory I (we) have now is that I am very tense, and that I subconciously am using my muscles all the time, hence building up that lactic acid. I have tried Oxazepam a few nights and felt better in the morning, which contributes to the theory about me not relaxing my muscles enough. The physical therapist and I are working on relaxation tecniques, hopefully it will solve some of the problem. This is a major problem for me, but I am coping okay, making new habits, new routines on how to do stuff. Take the elevator instead of the stairs, sitting down in the shower if I am really tired, catching the bus instead of walking, taking breaks often.
> 
> Sleep. I have been waking up really early ever since I started Nardil. Feeling refreshed at 5 am, forcing myself to stay in bed until at least six. I have had four good nights in a row now, but I don't dare to feel optimistic. For the past few months my nights have mostly been like this: Fall asleep at 10.30. Wake up at 11.30, going back to sleep. Waking up at 3 am, struggling to sleep. Sleeping for ten minutes at a time between 3 and whatever time I eventually give up.
> 
> Myoclonic jerks/twitching. Better than what it was, but it varies from day to day. I only get these jerks while really well relaxed, which means they can interfere with my sleep/naps. So they don't interfere with work or social stuff. I have been wondering if these jerks may contribute to my poor sleep (that they wake me up), but I haven't investigated into it.
> 
> Going through it all I see that I actually do have more side effects than what I thought initially when I started to write this post. I thought I'd give a summary of how everything is a lot better, really. So I think that it's mostly about me being accostumed to my body being like this now. The OH is mostly gone so that I don't fall and injure myself anymore (well, it happened last about 3 weeks ago, but it's quite rare now), and the other stuff I am getting more and more used to.
> 
> I have been working more, and the gym has a reduced time table because of the summer holidays, so I haven't really been missing working out that much. I have also been a lot more with my friends, which makes time pass quickly. My everyday activity level is a bit different than what it was before Nardil, but I still lead a fairly active life.
> 
> I am seing my new psychiatrist in 5-6 weeks. I am not sure if I may want to increase to 75 mg. I mean, I am okay now, but Nardil has had such an amazing effect, that I really would like to investigate further, to see if I can get even better. Actually feel some joy.


It's amazing how similar our side effects are. Your description of side effects are like a mirror image of mine.

I just started getting those myoclonic jerks and they won't go away. They're getting worse over the last few days. I've noticed I get them too when well relaxed, although I've had a few instances when they occur in front of people and not been relaxed. Very embarrassing.

Interesting to hear how you're combating the muscle weakness. This has been a problem for me too. Can't play one of my favorite sports, tennis. Anything to do with running or cardio is impossible. However I can still lift weights. Went to the weight room last night and had a good work out and felt great afterwards. I perform my reps really slow so I don't get out of breath but I was really encouraged last night how my workout went. After the workout, I tried sitting on the couch and watching tv.. and inevitably couldn't stay away, jerking and snorting every time I fell asleep. It'll definitely be nice when all these side effects begin to subside!


----------



## WillComp

phebus said:


> Hey Willcomp
> I've experienced the samething as you described with nodding off. It happened to me at 75mg of Nardil as well, i think it's a side effect and for an hour or so in the afternoon I could barely function and I often ended up having a nap. Imagine if it happened when you were in a meeting or something: "Simon are you feeling ok?", "Yeah just a bit sleepy I can barely keep my eyes open", "You don't look so good do you need to see a doctor?", "Nah I'm fine it's just a side effect of my medication for treatment resistent major depression and anxiety" haha . Seriously the daytime fatigue went away after I went down to 60mg. Hope all is good with ya buddie. :nerd:


Hope all is good with you too, phebus.

LOL @ nodding off during a meeting. I can't imagine if that happened. That sounds like a nightmare. haha. I'm surprised something like that hasn't happened yet, because I'm always nodding off at work. What if I went to a meeting, couldn't stay away and kept snorting and jerking as I nodded off, in front of all my coworkers. :lol

I just had a staff meeting this morning, it was the first time I've ever attended a meeting without a klonopin in the last 6 yrs or so. And I was fine. What a relief! I didn't have anxiety at all, however I noticed my eyes and shoulders were tense at usual, so I immediately relaxed my shoulders and eyes, and felt completely normal as if I was home alone. My brain had automatically tensed my muscles as usual even though I felt no anxiety.

I thought the nardil had stopped working a bit in the last few days but the meeting today proved that it's still working. My anxiety has never really gone up the way it used to. I can still start worrying about things at home or at work and get myself worked up over things but when placed in a usual high anxiety situation my SA doesn't get out of control like it used to. So all is good now. I'm on day 5 of 75 and still waiting to notice the extra benefits.


----------



## V1bzz

> After the workout, I tried sitting on the couch and watching tv.. and inevitably couldn't stay away, jerking and snorting every time I fell asleep. It'll definitely be nice when all these side effects begin to subside!




Oh, I spoke too soon about the fighting to stay awake crapola, this afternoon has been a real struggle with it. Everytime i sit back and relax mr boss eyes fighting to stay awake takes over!


----------



## V1bzz

I got reminded today of how anxiety destroys friendships, found out one of my best mates i used to hang with before i realised i had to stop drinking cos i was acting like a cock, went for a stag do in spain last week, HIS stag do, he gets married in 5 weeks.
Found out he invited all the others in our old group of friends to the stag do and the wedding, just not me.

I wrote him a long *** message on Facebook explaining a few things and pointed out that maybe instead of being rejected when i started to change and act weird that maybe it was an indication there was something wrong and to maybe ask or come to see if i was ok. I told him what was going on with me at the time. told him nobody cared or was there for me. Told him that I could never have imagined he would get married and not involve me and that i could never imagine getting married without them lot there.

Also told him how it pisses me off still a little bit how people who have known you for 20-30 yrs will judge you on your worst of times and not the many many years of excellent times you all had. I also told him how i had been there for him every time he needed me, through bad times, the same i am still for all my old friends.

I think he pretty much feels like a cnut now, pretty terrible way to treat someone you used to call every day (landline before mobiles) go to the pub with every thursday,friday,saturday and sunday. basically do everything together. He even woke up at my house one xmas, i walked in to find him drinking a bottle of sherry lol.

I found out about all of this because someone im not even friends with had the nerve to write me on facebook and ask me for funny stories for his best mans speech.

Im still speechless about it all and hurt. crazy times.


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> I got reminded today of how anxiety destroys friendships, found out one of my best mates i used to hang with before i realised i had to stop drinking cos i was acting like a cock, went for a stag do in spain last week, HIS stag do, he gets married in 5 weeks.
> Found out he invited all the others in our old group of friends to the stag do and the wedding, just not me.
> 
> I wrote him a long *** message on Facebook explaining a few things and pointed out that maybe instead of being rejected when i started to change and act weird that maybe it was an indication there was something wrong and to maybe ask or come to see if i was ok. I told him what was going on with me at the time. told him nobody cared or was there for me. Told him that I could never have imagined he would get married and not involve me and that i could never imagine getting married without them lot there.
> 
> Also told him how it pisses me off still a little bit how people who have known you for 20-30 yrs will judge you on your worst of times and not the many many years of excellent times you all had. I also told him how i had been there for him every time he needed me, through bad times, the same i am still for all my old friends.
> 
> I think he pretty much feels like a cnut now, pretty terrible way to treat someone you used to call every day (landline before mobiles) go to the pub with every thursday,friday,saturday and sunday. basically do everything together. He even woke up at my house one xmas, i walked in to find him drinking a bottle of sherry lol.
> 
> I found out about all of this because someone im not even friends with had the nerve to write me on facebook and ask me for funny stories for his best mans speech.
> 
> Im still speechless about it all and hurt. crazy times.


Did the guy answered ?


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I think he pretty much feels like a cnut now, pretty terrible way to treat someone you used to call every day (landline before mobiles) go to the pub with every thursday,friday,saturday and sunday. basically do everything together. He even woke up at my house one xmas, i walked in to find him drinking a bottle of sherry lol.
> 
> I found out about all of this because someone im not even friends with had the nerve to write me on facebook and ask me for funny stories for his best mans speech.
> 
> Im still speechless about it all and hurt. crazy times.


*
Ehh don't let it get to you*! 
I know how it is... I think that the person probable didn't really know how you feel, or actually how to respond to how you feel.
(it took my twinbrother 10years and after using Woormwood against some bacteria/parasite infection, getting panic attacks and such he asked: is this how you normally feel... Heck i thought of offing myself)

*You are more then welcome to my wedding!* @SFC01 will use his private jet and fly you here. 
(sadly russian mailorderbrides seems to have even higher standards then me!) (and i set that bar pretty low, kinda like my humor) :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Cassoulet94 said:


> Did the guy answered ?


Nope, he knows its wrong. I wrote him after and said i think our friendship is done and that i can't allow people to hurt me, even if they don't mean it, not when i'm trying to get better.

So he's gone completely from my life now, i think i made the right decision. imagine how bad i would feel when the wedding photos started getting posted.

He's hurt me enough.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> *
> Ehh don't let it get to you*!
> I know how it is... I think that the person probable didn't really know how you feel, or actually how to respond to how you feel.
> (it took my twinbrother 10years and after using Woormwood against some bacteria/parasite infection, getting panic attacks and such he asked: is this how you normally feel... Heck i thought of offing myself)
> 
> *You are more then welcome to my wedding!* @SFC01 will use his private jet and fly you here.
> (sadly russian mailorderbrides seems to have even higher standards then me!) (and i set that bar pretty low, kinda like my humor) :grin2:


it's ok, maybe we can get one from Thailand, you could get a ladyboy, you would have the best of both worlds, a hot chick and someone to ask about morning wood :grin2:>


----------



## phebus

A trip to thailand sounds good. I went there 15 years ago, delicious dirt cheap food. The girls like western guys, nothing is expensive if you are coming from a western country. Did I mention that a lot of girls there like western guys? I guess they aren't the super educated types of girls but beggars can't be choosers!


----------



## V1bzz

I just wanted to watch a movie today, the new alien one, fell asleep for 2 1/2 hours. 

Damn it, it's Saturday, I just want to relax and watch a damn movie!!!


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> It's amazing how similar our side effects are. Your description of side effects are like a mirror image of mine.
> 
> I just started getting those myoclonic jerks and they won't go away. They're getting worse over the last few days. I've noticed I get them too when well relaxed, although I've had a few instances when they occur in front of people and not been relaxed. Very embarrassing.
> 
> Interesting to hear how you're combating the muscle weakness. This has been a problem for me too. Can't play one of my favorite sports, tennis. Anything to do with running or cardio is impossible. However I can still lift weights. Went to the weight room last night and had a good work out and felt great afterwards. I perform my reps really slow so I don't get out of breath but I was really encouraged last night how my workout went. After the workout, I tried sitting on the couch and watching tv.. and inevitably couldn't stay away, jerking and snorting every time I fell asleep. It'll definitely be nice when all these side effects begin to subside!


I saw my pscychologist last week, and he asked me whether I was sure or not that the fatigue was all related to the Nardil. And I was like for f* sake, are we still discussing this? Well, I said that I was sure, and he nodded and wrote it down.

Today I'm totally exhausted. I spent last night at a friends house, and didn't get home until about 1 am, which is really late for me. I also had maybe four or five units of alcohol. Enough to be more chatty, but far from being hung over. Anyway, feeling so tired today (slept from 2 am to 8 am), and have had two one hour naps.

I promised to take my friend's baby for a walk, so that was nearly two hours on my feet. I really battled the fatigue, and after a while I didn't feel it much. But after sitting in their couch for maybe half an hour after we got back there, I was so tired I just had to leave.

She just moved to an apartment at the second floor, with no elevator. That means climbing the outside porch steps with the pram, placing it under the stairs, and then grabbing the 8 kilo baby and carrying him up to flights of stairs. Seriously, I can barely do it. I felt SO bad for her living there, having to do this several times a day, until I remembered that up until a few months ago that wouldn't have been a problem for me. An inconvinience, but not a problem. When I lived in Spain I was at the second floor with steep and narrow staircase. I had to buy water at the supermarket and bring it up the stairs. I got sweaty and I hated it, but it wasn't a problem. Now it would have been. I hate feeling so un fit. I don't get short of breath, I don't get sweaty, it just feels like my muscles are at a breaking point from the start.

Too tired to write anymore today. Also leaving for Croatia in a couple of days, so I'll be absent for a week and half or so. Talk to you guys later!


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I saw my pscychologist last week, and he asked me whether I was sure or not that the fatigue was all related to the Nardil. And I was like for f* sake, are we still discussing this? Well, I said that I was sure, and he nodded and wrote it down.
> 
> Today I'm totally exhausted. I spent last night at a friends house, and didn't get home until about 1 am, which is really late for me. I also had maybe four or five units of alcohol. Enough to be more chatty, but far from being hung over. Anyway, feeling so tired today (slept from 2 am to 8 am), and have had two one hour naps.
> 
> I promised to take my friend's baby for a walk, so that was nearly two hours on my feet. I really battled the fatigue, and after a while I didn't feel it much. But after sitting in their couch for maybe half an hour after we got back there, I was so tired I just had to leave.
> 
> She just moved to an apartment at the second floor, with no elevator. That means climbing the outside porch steps with the pram, placing it under the stairs, and then grabbing the 8 kilo baby and carrying him up to flights of stairs. Seriously, I can barely do it. I felt SO bad for her living there, having to do this several times a day, until I remembered that up until a few months ago that wouldn't have been a problem for me. An inconvinience, but not a problem. When I lived in Spain I was at the second floor with steep and narrow staircase. I had to buy water at the supermarket and bring it up the stairs. I got sweaty and I hated it, but it wasn't a problem. Now it would have been. I hate feeling so un fit. I don't get short of breath, I don't get sweaty, it just feels like my muscles are at a breaking point from the start.
> 
> Too tired to write anymore today. Also leaving for Croatia in a couple of days, so I'll be absent for a week and half or so. Talk to you guys later!


Know how you feel, my legs feel like they are made of lead at the moment.
Enjoy your trip, sounds fun


----------



## V1bzz

Quick update on what dose i'm at and how long..

*Monday 17th July*
4 weeks @ 60 mg, 5 weeks total (45)
5 days @ 75 mg

Patiently waiting. Side effects are just having a sore body. I have to sit on the side of my bed for about 30 minutes before I can actually move and do anything. Really sore lower back, sore legs.

The first time and second time actually, I had really dark wee, strong smelling and also strong smelling nardil farts. Constipation etc.
This time I don't have any of those things, maybe a very mild constipation.
I know Nardil is in my system but it makes me wonder if much is getting in at all.

I'm starting to worry cos im starting to get through my pills a bit fast as they will only give me 60 mg max.
I want to stay at 75 for 4 weeks then go up to 90.

My feeling is that maybe I need to take more to get a lower dose of effects. This is when chit starts to get difficult.
I should have got more pills at the start of the month i think but forgot due to having loads from dropping down to 45.

how is everyone else getting on?


----------



## V1bzz

I went to the shops today and felt anxious but i could tell the meds were trying for me not to be, i sort of went in and out of the anxious feeling while going through the checkout.

it kinda felt like damn i feel like **** as always, no i dont, im alright, damn i feel like crap, no actually im coping quite well, im alright, like a switch being turned on and off.

does this sound familiar to anyone when they were at about 4 weeks? I know i've been taking it about 5 months but first time i felt no benefit at all so still really don't know what to expect. i'm kinda hoping it's always like them 3 awesome days i had the 2nd try :


----------



## V1bzz

Hey @watertouch @SFC01 - do you know if Nardil lowers Potassium levels? i'm sure it does but i thought i would run it past you two smart @rses first :grin2:

*Symtoms of Edema*
Swollen limbs - yep
Dimples that remain in the skin after pressing - fluck yeah
Puffy face - yep
Abdominal bloating - big flipping yep LOL
Muscle pain - yep
Shortness of breath - yep


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Hey @*watertouch* @*SFC01* - do you know if Nardil lowers Potassium levels? i'm sure it does but i thought i would run it past you two smart @rses first :grin2:


Watertouch is the smart one mate, I`m just the arse :grin2:

No idea mate, have you looked on the web anywhere and found something or just a hunch at the moment ?

Re your second to last post and the anxiety at the shops - I remember the depression lifting first and foremost but as I got out and about more, I realised my anxiety was gone too - it was like suddenly not giving a **** about much - a lot like when I was in my 20's or something (sounds very similar to how you were).

I dont mean not giving a **** as in - its pointless - but as in I couldnt get fazed by anything anxiety related. Anything troubling or anxiety provoking on the horizon was just like, **** it, I deal with it when it happens. If i made an idiot out of myself by mumbling or getting words wrong etc, I couldn't care less about what anyone else thought about it, I just calmly recover the situation or just walk off laughing 

and eye contact as well, I could stare any mother ****er out again if I wanted to


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Watertouch is the smart one mate, I`m just the arse :grin2:
> 
> No idea mate, have you looked on the web anywhere and found something or just a hunch at the moment ?
> 
> Re your second to last post and the anxiety at the shops - I remember the depression lifting first and foremost but as I got out and about more, I realised my anxiety was gone too - it was like suddenly not giving a **** about much - a lot like when I was in my 20's or something (sounds very similar to how you were).
> 
> I dont mean not giving a **** as in - its pointless - but as in I couldnt get fazed by anything anxiety related. Anything troubling or anxiety provoking on the horizon was just like, **** it, I deal with it when it happens. If i made an idiot out of myself by mumbling or getting words wrong etc, I couldn't care less about what anyone else thought about it, I just calmly recover the situation or just walk off laughing
> 
> and eye contact as well, I could stare any mother ****er out again if I wanted to


hahaha sounds awesome. > 

I randomly came across a post about potassium and magnesium deficiency, I should have made it clearer when i wrote my list but i have exacty the same symptoms as that. pot belly, swollen legs, chubby face, hurting body etc etc.
If I am right hopefully I have found a way to get rid of this nasty pot belly but most of all my sore legs and back :grin2:

Apparently its very common to have the pot belly if your suffering from water retention in the legs.

I ordered some 'Holland & Barrett Super MultiMineral 100 Tablets ' last night.
With my vitamins and that i think i've pretty much got everything covered. it's quite possible i may turn into superman. I will let you know :nerd:

Ingredients are - With calcium, chromium, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorous, potassium, selenium, zinc & boron


----------



## WillComp

How is everyone doing today? Do you guys feel any improvement in mood and anxiety relief? 


I'm feeling good, however not as good as I did on 60. Now that I'm on 75, my mood is noticeably worse, and my anxiety is just a little bit worse than a few weeks ago. 


Before nardil, my main problem was SA. Out of 1 through 10 (10 being the most debilitating) , SA was definitely a 10. Now it's about 4 or 5 out of 10. Definitely a huge improvement. Would like to see more improvements though, hopefully soon I'll start feeling a massive improvement and feel like a happy superhero :grin2:. 


By the way, for those who don't venture out of this thread, I started a new thread, "New Nardil Side Effect: What is this?" Hoping that side effect goes away quickly!!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> How is everyone doing today? Do you guys feel any improvement in mood and anxiety relief?
> 
> I'm feeling good, however not as good as I did on 60. Now that I'm on 75, my mood is noticeably worse, and my anxiety is just a little bit worse than a few weeks ago.
> 
> Before nardil, my main problem was SA. Out of 1 through 10 (10 being the most debilitating) , SA was definitely a 10. Now it's about 4 or 5 out of 10. Definitely a huge improvement. Would like to see more improvements though, hopefully soon I'll start feeling a massive improvement and feel like a happy superhero :grin2:.
> 
> By the way, for those who don't venture out of this thread, I started a new thread, "New Nardil Side Effect: What is this?" Hoping that side effect goes away quickly!!


I'm at the stage now where im suffering from physical exhaustion. I totally forgot about this phase. i'm literally fcked all day, tired and too exhausted to do anything. My legs shake like fook again walking down the stairs.
Can't remember how long it last last time, hopefully not too long!

I've been massaging my legs from ankle to knee for a couple of days and the water retention seems to have improved slightly. My compression socks will hopefully arrive this week.
My knees and ankles are so damn sore at the moment I don't know what to ask for at my next appointment, something for the pain or something to help keep me awake!


----------



## WillComp

When the fcuk does this pass over? I'm suffering from the same thing too, except for the noticeable water retention. My legs are super sore and shake like crazy walking down stairs. Last night I told myself I'd rather suffer at the gym than fall asleep watching tv, so I recorded Big Brother and walked over to the gym in my apartment complex.

Had a great workout lifting weights, felt perfect. Then played pool by myself and generally enjoyed the evening. On the way back, I decided to run up the flight of stairs to my 3rd floor unit and did it just fine. As soon as I walked in the door, got really dizzy with the usual white-out and stars, started wobbling, and fully collapsed on my carpet floor. Glad it was carpet cuz it was a hard fall. Anyway, got right up as of nothing happened and took off my shoes and went about my way
Watched Big Brother and managed to stay awake, however I kept getting dizzy every time I got up.

Its probably dumb of me to go all out and lift weights/run, and it sucks that I got dizzy and collapsed, but I'd rather enjoy my evenings after work than sit around and inevitably fall asleep on my recliner.

At work I'm a mess, always exhausted and nodding off and taking caffeine pills. My legs and anxles get sore just sitting down all day. V1, you'll have to give us a review of those comprssion socks. That's awesome you ordered those. I might have to get some myself. And I need something to combat the dizziness/collapsing/wobbling/trembling. Its getting old.. need it to pass soon!!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> When the fcuk does this pass over? I'm suffering from the same thing too, except for the noticeable water retention. My legs are super sore and shake like crazy walking down stairs. Last night I told myself I'd rather suffer at the gym than fall asleep watching tv, so I recorded Big Brother and walked over to the gym in my apartment complex.
> 
> Had a great workout lifting weights, felt perfect. Then played pool by myself and generally enjoyed the evening. On the way back, I decided to run up the flight of stairs to my 3rd floor unit and did it just fine. As soon as I walked in the door, got really dizzy with the usual white-out and stars, started wobbling, and fully collapsed on my carpet floor. Glad it was carpet cuz it was a hard fall. Anyway, got right up as of nothing happened and took off my shoes and went about my way
> Watched Big Brother and managed to stay awake, however I kept getting dizzy every time I got up.
> 
> Its probably dumb of me to go all out and lift weights/run, and it sucks that I got dizzy and collapsed, but I'd rather enjoy my evenings after work than sit around and inevitably fall asleep on my recliner.
> 
> At work I'm a mess, always exhausted and nodding off and taking caffeine pills. My legs and anxles get sore just sitting down all day. V1, you'll have to give us a review of those comprssion socks. That's awesome you ordered those. I might have to get some myself. And I need something to combat the dizziness/collapsing/wobbling/trembling. Its getting old.. need it to pass soon!!


All i know mate is that it does pass and i'm sure it was at 75mg for me the first time. I can't really remember how long i was suffering with it before that, i just remember it was hell and felt like forever but was maybe only a month.

The compression socks i am waiting on are under the knee ones, figured they would do for now. I don't think i have the swelling on my knees but they are the worst pain for me right now. I'm in agony crouching and to get back up is even worse, i have to use something, like a door or whatever to pull myself up with. I have just got over strained wrists and have a really bad elbow lol. fckin falling to bits mate haha.
Gunna ring a number i was given by the chemist yesterday to see if they will give me some over the knee pressure socks. just the thought of that feels like it will be such a relief.

Do you have a really sore back in the morning? lower middle back. it's still hurting me now an hour after waking but when i first get up man i cant move its so painful. I have to sit for a bit on the edge of my bed and then stand a bit, put my shorts on by hanging them and trying to get one leg in at a time lol.

Man i'm only 41 and have been pretty fit all my life. don't like feeling like a 90yr old man every day haha.

By the sounds of it you live above ground level? does that affect the hypo going up all the time?
I think you need to get up slower, its a pain in the *** but may stop your tremors.
I used to have to do it when waking during the night, i would feel so ill and knew i would collapse if i got up any sooner than 1 or 2 mins adjusting on the bed (while my cat is nagging the fck out of me lol) I used to then walk with my eyes closed, peaking through every now and then to see how it felt.
Man i don't miss that, having to walk really slowly, using everything i could hold onto to move forward, banging into **** nearly falling over. Just a complete mess.
I kinda got into a routine during the day though of getting up in stages.

Have you tried gatoraid yet? i was using locozade sport and it helped massively for the hypo, had to stop though as it was giving me a bad chest. I used to do one in the morning, mid day and early evening at first, I then changed it to when i could feel it coming on i cracked open a bottle and downed it. seemed to help.

Forgot to say, i have some potassium and magnesium tablets on the way. I really think they will help with the leg pain, swelling and pot belly, fatigue. All of those things are signs of low potassium/magnesium levels. I would say from the amount of people that get these symptoms nardil lowers those levels.

Will let you know how it goes, hopefully they will crack this for me


----------



## V1bzz

@Tandorini @WillComp

*symptoms of low potassium* -

*hypokalemia* include excessive *diuresis*, *decreased contractility of the muscles*, *metabolic alkalosis*, Weakness, tiredness, or cramping in arm or leg muscles, sometimes severe enough to cause inability to move arms or legs due to weakness (much like a paralysis)
*Tingling or numbness*
Nausea or vomiting
Abdominal cramping, *bloating*
*Constipation*
Palpitations (feeling your heart beat irregularly)
*Passing large amounts of urine or feeling very thirsty most of the time*
*Fainting due to low blood pressure*

*Symptoms of low Magnesium* -

Neurological:

Behavioral disturbances
*Irritability and anxiety*
*Lethargy*
*Impaired memory and cognitive function*
Anorexia or loss of appetite
Nausea and vomiting
Seizures

Muscular:

*Weakness*
*Muscle spasms (tetany)*
*Tics*
Muscle cramps
Hyperactive reflexes
*Impaired muscle coordination (ataxia)*
*Tremors*
Involuntary eye movements and vertigo
Difficulty swallowing

Metabolic:

Increased intracellular calcium
Hyperglycemia
Calcium deficiency
Potassium deficiency

Cardiovascular:

Irregular or rapid heartbeat
Coronary spasms

*Look how many symtoms we all get from Nardil. I think taking a Potassium and Magnesium combo could help us all massively!!
Low potassium levels also causes water retention in the ankles and legs, it causes sore muscle joints,
pot belly and chubby face. I think it's pretty clear that Nardil lowers Potassium and Magnesium levels!!*


----------



## V1bzz

This is a bit crazy to say and I don't know if it's because the 75 mg is kicking in, 75 seems to be the dose for me that all sides go..well i took my first does of potassium and magnesium today and I really think it has instantly helped. My tummy is certainly flatter than usual and my legs are not shaky at all walking down the stairs and the pain is bearable today. I just squatted to test it and yes it hurt but i was able to do it unaided :grin2:

I will be back to this before I know it 
@WillComp @SFC01 @Tandorini @Captainmycaptain @watertouch


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I will be back to this before I know it
> 
> @*WillComp*
> @*SFC01*
> @*Tandorini*
> @*Captainmycaptain*
> @*watertouch*


Lets hope so, about ****ing time haha

You still got that magnesium malate ?


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> This is a bit crazy to say and I don't know if it's because the 75 mg is kicking in, 75 seems to be the dose for me that all sides go..well i took my first does of potassium and magnesium today and I really think it has instantly helped. My tummy is certainly flatter than usual and my legs are not shaky at all walking down the stairs and the pain is bearable today. I just squatted to test it and yes it hurt but i was able to do it unaided :grin2:
> 
> I will be back to this before I know it
> 
> @*WillComp*
> @*SFC01*
> @*Tandorini*
> @*Captainmycaptain*
> @*watertouch*


Good to hear! If it keeps working for you and some others, I'll give it a try.

I like that banana, reminds me I haven't bought bananas in a while; bananas are full of potassium. I'd eat that whole thing, peels and all. Oh wait, can we eat that? :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Lets hope so, about ****ing time haha
> 
> You still got that magnesium malate ?


Holy shiite, totally forgot about that. yeah i bet its around here somewhere with the millions of others bottles of **** i've bought the last few months haha


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Good to hear! If it keeps working for you and some others, I'll give it a try.
> 
> I like that banana, reminds me I haven't bought bananas in a while; bananas are full of potassium. I'd eat that whole thing, peels and all. Oh wait, can we eat that? :grin2:


That's a point haha, prob not allowed anything with potassium in it ffs >


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> millions of others bottles of **** i've bought the last few months haha


the dangers of joining the sas anxiety forum haha


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> the dangers of joining the sas anxiety forum haha


Dude, I think i binned them. wtf man, 13 quid for them fckers and i binned em? :O


----------



## V1bzz

Damn I bounced out of bed this morning, think that morning thing is coming back for me @SFC01 yay, friggin love it. @WillComp my back knees, ankles, legs in general feel good today mate. There was no sitting on the bed for 30 minutes this morning, as i said above to sfc, i jumped out of bed.

I can not tell you how good it feels to not wake up in agony and then to walk about pain free!

Honestly, this will be me soon enjoying the use of my legs again


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, cool mate, love that early morning nardil feel.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, cool mate, love that early morning nardil feel.


I just had pins and needles in my lower legs for about 10 mins as if the blood was finally circulating properly around there. I have so much damn energy in my legs I could go for a run haha :grin2::grin2:

This has just gotta be good timing I think, potassium and magnesium can't be that awesome!
I think 75 is the dose for me that all my sides go, if i remember correctly i just had slight fatigue left.

I feel pretty good today cos of the ole legs, i'm feeling such relief down there, hopefully it works its way up to the third leg


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> hopefully it works its way up to the third leg


:grin2: at least it will put some life in the old fella


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: at least it will put some life in the old fella




I'm hopefully not gunna jinx myself but I can feel the Nardil today, looks like it's starting to kick in :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Got me old man socks on now too


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Got me old man socks on now too


The ladies on this forum will be pm'ing you left right and centre now after this pic - :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> The ladies on this forum will be pm'ing you left right and centre now after this pic - :grin2:




Just in case...yes I am single ladies


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Just in case...yes I am single ladies


Dude, Sweeeet socks!! :clap

Are those the ones from the link I posted? I want some too. I've heard they're good for bulging varicose veins and spider veins, and they get rid of pain/discomfort. That's awesome that you got those.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Dude, Sweeeet socks!! :clap
> 
> Are those the ones from the link I posted? I want some too. I've heard they're good for bulging varicose veins and spider veins, and they get rid of pain/discomfort. That's awesome that you got those.


Hey, na i found a shop abit closer that sells em for a fiver a pair. They do help actually but I think I may need a tighter pair. Had em on all day yesterday and took em off just before bed. It was weird cos they had softened up the water retention, it's usually tough, but i could easily move it up my shin lol.

The ones I got are called 'Pretty Legs compression socks' 
They are women's but zero fcks were given when ordering - https://www.tightstightstights.co.u...-c8/pretty-legs-ribbed-compression-sock-p3728 

I feel kinda sexy


----------



## V1bzz

The water retention has pretty much gone in my left leg already. The magnesium and potassium really help a great deal with the pain. My left ankle is still really swollen but have had issues with it for many yrs after getting hit by a car.
Right leg is still really swollen but better than it was. I can indent on my leg maybe about half an inch deep now instead of a full inch.
The magnesium/potassium isn't helping with the pot belly just yet. When I eat sh1t like biscuits it swells up so damn bad.
Check out the pic below, this is because i munched on 2 packs of Oreo's....
This is another one for the ladies 










This is now my Facebook profile image just cos i look like i'm about to drop :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Photo is a bit bigger than I expected


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> The water retention has pretty much gone in my left leg already. The magnesium and potassium really help a great deal with the pain. My left ankle is still really swollen but have had issues with it for many yrs after getting hit by a car.
> Right leg is still really swollen but better than it was. I can indent on my leg maybe about half an inch deep now instead of a full inch.
> The magnesium/potassium isn't helping with the pot belly just yet. When I eat sh1t like biscuits it swells up so damn bad.
> Check out the pic below, this is because i munched on 2 packs of Oreo's....
> This is another one for the ladies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is now my Facebook profile image just cos i look like i'm about to drop :grin2:


**** me mate - looks like a beautiful pic of the moon with the sun in the background !! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Do you think it's safer if I close my PM for a bit mate? @SFC01


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> **** me mate - looks like a beautiful pic of the moon with the sun in the background !! :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Do you think it's safer if I close my PM for a bit mate? @*SFC01*


I would either shut your pm down, or make it very clear to the ladies oot there you are spoken for otherwise we could have a stampede on our hands :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I would either shut your pm down, or make it very clear to the ladies oot there you are spoken for otherwise we could have a stampede on our hands :grin2:


hahahaha  :grin2:>


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Do you think it's safer if I close my PM for a bit mate? @*SFC01*


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Hey @*watertouch* @*SFC01* - do you know if Nardil lowers Potassium levels? i'm sure it does but i thought i would run it past you two smart @rses first :grin2:


Have you done any bloodwork/tests?

be carefull with supplementing since it can cause heartproblems and such if taken to much.

Magnesium can probable be good to supplement with specially in the summer, be sure to use citrate form or such and not oxide since it will cause the runs, (can be good if Nardil cause constipation)


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Have you done any bloodwork/tests?
> 
> be carefull with supplementing since it can cause heartproblems and such if taken to much.
> 
> Magnesium can probable be good to supplement with specially in the summer, be sure to use citrate form or such and not oxide since it will cause the runs, (can be good if Nardil cause constipation)


Yo, welcome back, good to see you again.

The magnesium and potassium has helped so much with my legs man, literally about an hour after taking first dose the pain had all but gone :grin2: it's a flippin miracle drug, crazy!


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Yo, welcome back, good to see you again.
> 
> The magnesium and potassium has helped so much with my legs man, literally about an hour after taking first dose the pain had all but gone :grin2: it's a flippin miracle drug, crazy!


Thx! Right back at you! I can see your thread have gotten 1000replies!, i got some reading up to do since i last checked it out!

Hehe Placebo for the win! :grin2:

What was your grandmothers reaction about you borrowing her support socks in secret? >:grin2:


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> What was your grandmothers reaction about you borrowing her support socks in secret? >:grin2:


:grin2:

Never mind that Big A - I wanna know how NASA got that photo of the @V1bzz belly !!

Hope you are well mate.


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> :grin2:
> 
> Never mind that Big A - I wanna know how NASA got that photo of the @*V1bzz* belly !!
> 
> Hope you are well mate.


Haha i was just gonna quote your previus post about the moon, and write something witty about astronomy :grin2:

Im doing kinda Ok, but it took 3Vyvanse... Hope you are doing Ok!


----------



## V1bzz

Come on now, play nice 

May have figured out why I get sudden bouts of that narcolepsy sh1t!! - Icecreams, like the 99 ones with the flake. I munched on one earlier and started to feel the head tiredness coming...but alas it went. Then I cained 3 of the badboys after dinner, an hour later had serious narcolepsy head. I'm still awake so i guess i won. Really don't like that sh1t though, horrible bloody feeling!

Think im gunna ring my pdoc a week before my appointment on the 2nd and get him to consult with the phyc and see what they can give me to keep this crapola from forcing me to sleep. I will do a good sob story, hopefully she will give me summin awesome


----------



## watertouch

^ 
It can backfire and they will take you off Nardil.

In theory a small dose of a betablocker can help (betablockers decrease Melatonin). There are probable other stuff that effects Melatonin. (MAOIs increase Melatonin)


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> ^
> It can backfire and they will take you off Nardil.
> 
> In theory a small dose of a betablocker can help (betablockers decrease Melatonin). There are probable other stuff that effects Melatonin. (MAOIs increase Melatonin)


They've already tried to take me off cos of the legs mate, i refused, nothing they can do if i am willing to put up with the pain. What i can do is see what they come up with and if they start going on about me coming off nardil i'll kick off. not going through all the sh1t that i have to be taken off it now it is slowly starting to work.

I see your point though, ill have a chat with the pdoc, he's the one that said they can't make me stop unless its life threatening. I will see what he says about getting something, he's pretty honest with me and if he thinks to not bother I won't.

This could be all solved if they just all stopped being so damn selfish and prescribed me MDMA >


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 - old skools making a come back - http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/31093/1/why-are-pills-so-strong-right-now


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp

Just wondering mate if you are still getting the tiredness? narcolepsy type sh1t?

I noticed yesterday that i get it when i eat ice cream. I had one early afternoon and felt the tried head kicking it, luckily it passed without too much drama. Later on though I had 3 or 4 lol, about an hour or two after that i was fighting the narcolepsy really bad.

I'm wondering if you can notice that it comes on after eating a certain food which has a high tyramine content? for example yogurts, certain fruits, aged cheese, gravy etc etc.

I think if you can notice what you eat to make it happen you may crack it


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> This could be all solved if they just all stopped being so damn selfish and prescribed me MDMA >


Haha Yes!
I strongly and fully believe that if i have had a "key" to the phamarcy i would have been "cured" over a decade ago!


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Haha Yes!
> I strongly and fully believe that if i have had a "key" to the phamarcy i would have been "cured" over a decade ago!


me too!


----------



## watertouch

^ 
Have you tried probiotics for the bloating? Or cutting out dairy or such?

You need to fix this! (before i go on Nardil and get these side effects) >:grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

Whoa guys, I'm offline for a week, and I come back to posts about grandma's socks and seminude pics? Seems like you can't be left alone even for a minute! :haha

Oh well, I'm back I guess. Been taking Oxazepam every night for the past week. It certainly improves my sleep, but I don't think it does wonders for the lactic acid anyway (the idea being that my muscles were tense, causing lactic acid to build up). So that's another thing I can put down to not working for me.

The magnesium and potassium combo is interesting. I have had so much blood work done that I know I don't lack either of them, but if Nardil users could use a little extra, it couldn't hurt. What you can get OTC is mild enough that you don't need to worry too much about potassium levels getting too high, I think. And yeah, there's plenty of potassium in bananas, and plenty of tyramine in the peel. So eat the banana, throw away the peel 

I went to my GP the other day and got some iron supplements. I wasn't seriously low, the level was to be between 10 and 167, and I was at 13. So he thought it wouldn't hurt to give me a supplement. They're supposed to be taken without food, but who the hell remembers stuff like that while on holiday. Anyway, it takes time to build up the iron levels. Back for new blood tests in a couple of months. 

Interesting thing - I think I tolerate the heat better now. I was in Croatia, with about 30 degrees and high humidity. The others got parasols for shade at the beach, while I was fine in the sun. Of course I got really, really got, and went for a swim every 20 minutes or so, but still. They were complaining about the heat a lot more than I did. I have always been the one needing the shade, while others are sunbaking. And also - while the others thought the water was a little chilly, I could barely get myself to duck my body under. I remember that from last winter when I started Nardil - it felt like my insides were made of ice. I couldn't get warm, I wore ridiculous amounts of clothing to be able to go outside.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* - old skools making a come back - http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/31093/1/why-are-pills-so-strong-right-now


interesting post mate, cheers.

*"Dr Adam Winstock: *Buying a pill shouldn't be like going to the pub, buying a round and saying cheers, and everyone going off"

Never did me any harm :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> ^
> Have you tried probiotics for the bloating? Or cutting out dairy or such?
> 
> You need to fix this! (before i go on Nardil and get these side effects) >:grin2:


Fluck sake, am I still the Nardil guinea pig? :grin2:

Yes i was reading about pro biotics, will give them a try. Bloating has been well behaved today, good little alien :smile2:

I don't have any diary products (apart from ice creams at the mo) are ice creams classed as diary products? :serious:

I only have milk in my tea and that's it. maybe 3 cups a day at mo max.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Whoa guys, I'm offline for a week, and I come back to posts about grandma's socks and seminude pics? Seems like you can't be left alone even for a minute! :haha
> 
> Oh well, I'm back I guess. Been taking Oxazepam every night for the past week. It certainly improves my sleep, but I don't think it does wonders for the lactic acid anyway (the idea being that my muscles were tense, causing lactic acid to build up). So that's another thing I can put down to not working for me.
> 
> The magnesium and potassium combo is interesting. I have had so much blood work done that I know I don't lack either of them, but if Nardil users could use a little extra, it couldn't hurt. What you can get OTC is mild enough that you don't need to worry too much about potassium levels getting too high, I think. And yeah, there's plenty of potassium in bananas, and plenty of tyramine in the peel. So eat the banana, throw away the peel
> 
> I went to my GP the other day and got some iron supplements. I wasn't seriously low, the level was to be between 10 and 167, and I was at 13. So he thought it wouldn't hurt to give me a supplement. They're supposed to be taken without food, but who the hell remembers stuff like that while on holiday. Anyway, it takes time to build up the iron levels. Back for new blood tests in a couple of months.
> 
> Interesting thing - I think I tolerate the heat better now. I was in Croatia, with about 30 degrees and high humidity. The others got parasols for shade at the beach, while I was fine in the sun. Of course I got really, really got, and went for a swim every 20 minutes or so, but still. They were complaining about the heat a lot more than I did. I have always been the one needing the shade, while others are sunbaking. And also - while the others thought the water was a little chilly, I could barely get myself to duck my body under. I remember that from last winter when I started Nardil - it felt like my insides were made of ice. I couldn't get warm, I wore ridiculous amounts of clothing to be able to go outside.




Nardil is here to help us understand what it is to be old people I think haha.
The picture of you going out with loads of clothes on cracked me up :grin2:
I was the same though, on a hot day in a van with people moaning its too hot and me sitting with a jumper and jacket on turning the heater up full blast and shivering haha.

Since i started the magnesium and potassium the pain in my knees and ankles has become very bareable. Also my legs rarely shake now when walking down the stairs or when i bend them. Defo not placebo @watertouch :kiss:

Sounds like you had a good holiday, I really can't bare the heat and sun at the moment, complete opposite of how I was pre nardil. I usually love the sun and getting a nice tan. This is the whitest I have ever been in summer I think.

Hope you enjoyed the photos


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> interesting post mate, cheers.
> 
> *"Dr Adam Winstock: *Buying a pill shouldn't be like going to the pub, buying a round and saying cheers, and everyone going off"
> 
> Never did me any harm :grin2:


Me either > never ever had a single problem with xtc. I was a safe raver though, safe crazy mo fo lol.

I still cant agree with what he says about old skool pills being just MDMA, i think thats bullsh1t....but obviously he can't say publicly that it had at least 2 other MD's in it. No way was it just pure mdma uh uh (wags finger)
They call them super pills now when they look back at what we took, they wernt though because every pill was just that good compared to the sh1t they take these days.

I have even read stuff yrs ago talking about the 90's pills having MDMA and MDA and another one?

Just MDMA my @rse, if it was that every pill would have been the same, the fact is they wernt!

Of course only different depending on the dosage of mdma in the pill.

Do I look chinese to anyone else in my profile picture? :/


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Me either > never ever had a single problem with xtc. I was a safe raver though, safe crazy mo fo lol.
> 
> I still cant agree with what he says about old skool pills being just MDMA, i think thats bullsh1t....but obviously he can't say publicly that it had at least 2 other MD's in it. No way was it just pure mdma uh uh (wags finger)
> They call them super pills now when they look back at what we took, they wernt though because every pill was just that good compared to the sh1t they take these days.
> 
> I have even read stuff yrs ago talking about the 90's pills having MDMA and MDA and another one?
> 
> Just MDMA my @rse, if it was that every pill would have been the same, the fact is they wernt!


What was your record number in one sitting ? I took 7 once on a Saturday afternoon, buzzing my tts off watching footbal focus . I lived with my mate at the time and he had a load of pills in and gave me a couple. I asked him to charge me £10 for any extra hoping it would put me off from taking any more, ended up spending 50 squid. My face was gurning all over the show !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> What was your record number in one sitting ? I took 7 once on a Saturday afternoon, buzzing my tts off watching footbal focus . I lived with my mate at the time and he had a load of pills in and gave me a couple. I asked him to charge me £10 for any extra hoping it would put me off from taking any more, ended up spending 50 squid. My face was gurning all over the show !!


hahaha, well back in the day 2 max with maybe a gram or two of speed. Later in the 90's I took about 5 or 6 one night. they wernt very good though, i think pills were dying then.

The pills were still strong *** when i quit the rave scene, it was still early days in the scene when i fkcuked my brain. knew i had to stop and to stop seeing that group of people. cut everything out. Sad times but good for my health, i would prob be dead now if i carried on the way i was. I kinda always figured i would be able to go back to it all after a few yrs break. who would have known the drugs went bad and the rave scene was dying :crying:

I look back often and feel gutted about all that I missed out on. Totally gutted. Had a lot of friends at the Brunel rooms, apparently i just missed out on Mitsubishi's and grey doves


----------



## Tandorini

@V1bzz

What dosage of magnesium and potassium do you take?


----------



## V1bzz

umm - maggy 3 times a day 375mg. The potassium in these tablets is only listed as an ingredient so not sure how much. When I ordered it said it was a magnesium/potassium product. Im guessing its the RDA. its a total of 375mg for the 3 tablets. one after breakfast, lunch, dinner.








http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product//holland-barrett-super-multimineral-tablets-60005580

*Unique formulation of major & trace minerals
With calcium, chromium, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorous, potassium, selenium, zinc & boron
For individuals who may not receive enough major & trace minerals through diet alone*

@SFC01 Maggy and Potty :grin2::grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

A random thought for @WillComp - do you suck on mints alot? I noticed i get uber dry mouth after brushing and when i have a polo mint in my mouth!


----------



## Cassoulet94

V1bzz said:


> umm - maggy 3 times a day 375mg. The potassium in these tablets is only listed as an ingredient so not sure how much. When I ordered it said it was a magnesium/potassium product. Im guessing its the RDA. its a total of 375mg for the 3 tablets. one after breakfast, lunch, dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product//holland-barrett-super-multimineral-tablets-60005580
> 
> *Unique formulation of major & trace minerals
> With calcium, chromium, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorous, potassium, selenium, zinc & boron
> For individuals who may not receive enough major & trace minerals through diet alone*
> 
> @SFC01 Maggy and Potty


You mean 375mg of magnesium a day or 375×3=1125mg a day ? Because it would be way too much and not healthy. Don't take too many supplements randomly it can actually be bad for you.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* Maggy and Potty :grin2::grin2:


Sounds like a double date - you can have potty and smash her back doors in and I`ll beat the back out of maggy :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

@Tandorini -After you have taken x3 that should be a total of 375mg in your system. Goes around the stomach too!

I have just ordered myself this today, can't go wrong at £2.50









Also just been speaking with a woman at the supermarket (my anxiety was much better than usual, I was able to talk but just quieter) and she said she had a bad bloated stomach and took charcoal tablets and it got rid of it quick smart. They were out today so will be getting some tomorrow.
I've taken charcoal in the past but to help with hangovers


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Sounds like a double date - you can have potty and smash her back doors in and I`ll beat the back out of maggy :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> umm - maggy 3 times a day 375mg. The potassium in these tablets is only listed as an ingredient so not sure how much. When I ordered it said it was a magnesium/potassium product. Im guessing its the RDA. its a total of 375mg for the 3 tablets. one after breakfast, lunch, dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product//holland-barrett-super-multimineral-tablets-60005580
> 
> *Unique formulation of major & trace minerals
> With calcium, chromium, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorous, potassium, selenium, zinc & boron
> For individuals who may not receive enough major & trace minerals through diet alone*
> 
> @*SFC01* Maggy and Potty :grin2::grin2:


Hm...It contains 33 mg of Potassium, giving a daily dose of 99 mg (which is only 5 % of RDA). I am already taking a multi vitamin supplement which contains magnesium and potassium, but it doesn't state what dose.

I was actually thinking about buying and OTC potassium supplement, it contains 10 mmol per capsule, and it's recommended to take twice a day for profylaxis, and four a day if you actually have hypokalemia. My calculations (I was never any good at chemistry, tho  ) is that 10 mmol would be 391 mg pr capsule. Does that seem right?

I do usually eat a banana every day, which contains approx. 400 mg of potassium in itself, so I dunno. Might go for one of those capsules a day, and see how I go. Norwegian law is really strict about OTC drugs, we can hardly get anything without a prescription, so I reckon it would be safe enough.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hm...It contains 33 mg of Potassium, giving a daily dose of 99 mg (which is only 5 % of RDA). I am already taking a multi vitamin supplement which contains magnesium and potassium, but it doesn't state what dose.
> 
> I was actually thinking about buying and OTC potassium supplement, it contains 10 mmol per capsule, and it's recommended to take twice a day for profylaxis, and four a day if you actually have hypokalemia. My calculations (I was never any good at chemistry, tho  ) is that 10 mmol would be 391 mg pr capsule. Does that seem right?
> 
> I do usually eat a banana every day, which contains approx. 400 mg of potassium in itself, so I dunno. Might go for one of those capsules a day, and see how I go. Norwegian law is really strict about OTC drugs, we can hardly get anything without a prescription, so I reckon it would be safe enough.


I wrote a review and complained. where did you find out how much potassium is in it? yeah I've started having a banana a day. hmm i think in chemistry class i used to just set fire to the bun-son burner and squirt water through disused ones :grin2:
Prob may guess but I didn't even collect my GCSE results, there was no point.
As an example of how stupid I was at school, the students were allowed to take something in to exams for good luck, i took a tin of beans and beef burgers


----------



## V1bzz

Had my first food interaction earlier, or something similar to it, I still feel like sh1t from it now.
Lately i always enjoy a packet of Oreo's, well today I had some and about 45 mins later started to feel really sick and ill and the narcolepsy thing kicked in really intense but i didn't feel tired, my head just felt really fkcuked. I then got a piercing migraine in the right front of my head. I felt really really ill so laid down, felt like i was going to be sick lying down. I closed my eyes for a few seconds because the migraine was really painful, the next thing I know is my phone went off and it was 2 hrs later. I forced myself awake and have been feeling really bad in my head and stomach, I feel so bloody weak too.

I do feel a bit better now about 7 hrs after having the biscuits but still feel weak and my head feels tired and heavy.

So looks like no more Oreo's for me  i'm guessing its because the 75 mg is getting in to my system because I have eaten them and been fine on lower doses.

Totally ruined my morning and day so far!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Had my first food interaction earlier, or something similar to it, I still feel like sh1t from it now.
> Lately i always enjoy a packet of Oreo's, well today I had some and about 45 mins later started to feel really sick and ill and the narcolepsy thing kicked in really intense but i didn't feel tired, my head just felt really fkcuked. I then got a piercing migraine in the right front of my head. I felt really really ill so laid down, felt like i was going to be sick lying down. I closed my eyes for a few seconds because the migraine was really painful, the next thing I know is my phone went off and it was 2 hrs later. I forced myself awake and have been feeling really bad in my head and stomach, I feel so bloody weak too.
> 
> I do feel a bit better now about 7 hrs after having the biscuits but still feel weak and my head feels tired and heavy.
> 
> So looks like no more Oreo's for me  i'm guessing its because the 75 mg is getting in to my system because I have eaten them and been fine on lower doses.
> 
> Totally ruined my morning and day so far!


Sounds like an awful experience :/ But what could Oreo contain that would cause a food reaction? Doesn't really make sense to me. But yeah, something certainly happened to you :/ Glad you lived to tell the tale!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I wrote a review and complained. where did you find out how much potassium is in it? yeah I've started having a banana a day. hmm i think in chemistry class i used to just set fire to the bun-son burner and squirt water through disused ones :grin2:
> Prob may guess but I didn't even collect my GCSE results, there was no point.
> As an example of how stupid I was at school, the students were allowed to take something in to exams for good luck, i took a tin of beans and beef burgers


I just clicked the link you gave, and clicked "show more" when the list of ingredients came up.

Just stopped by the pharmacy to buy potassium, which say "750 mg kaliumchloride equal to 10 mmol K+", so I'm confused. I never got to set fire to the chemistry lab, I was too busy watching my teacher make a hole through the ceiling in one of his attempts to show us an experiment. :hahaAnyway, I've decided to start off with just one capsule, instead of the two capsules which are recommended for preventing hypokalemia. Hm. I just googled "symptoms of hyperkalemia". It says muscle weakness. Which is the symptom we're trying to treat, right? Probably gonna OD on the thing, thinking it's Nardil that's eating at my muscles. But we've got to be a little careful playing with potassium supplements, as both low and high values impact the electrical system of the heart.

Bought magnesium as well, 300 mg. Had a look at my multi vitamin supplement, it contains 100 mg. So that will make 400, which is just above the recommended daily dose of 375 mg. Have no idea of the potassium content of the multi vitamin though.

So, starting tomorrow I'll try 10 mmol potassium (which I still believe is 391 mg) and 300 mg magnesium. Can't start tonite as it can't be taken together with the iron supplement.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> As an example of how stupid I was at school, the students were allowed to take something in to exams for good luck, i took a tin of beans and beef burgers


Genius in my book :grin2:

I was quite clever at school but because i played footy all my mates were thick as **** haha - at our school whilst I was doing double maths, my mates were ****ing about on mopeds in the playground learning how to drive on their B-Tec course - we used to hang out the window shouting B-Tec in a spazzy voice at them !! Now some of them are ****ing minted and I`m back living with ma and ****ing pa !! **** education.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I just clicked the link you gave, and clicked "show more" when the list of ingredients came up.
> 
> Just stopped by the pharmacy to buy potassium, which say "750 mg kaliumchloride equal to 10 mmol K+", so I'm confused. I never got to set fire to the chemistry lab, I was too busy watching my teacher make a hole through the ceiling in one of his attempts to show us an experiment. :hahaAnyway, I've decided to start off with just one capsule, instead of the two capsules which are recommended for preventing hypokalemia. Hm. I just googled "symptoms of hyperkalemia". It says muscle weakness. Which is the symptom we're trying to treat, right? Probably gonna OD on the thing, thinking it's Nardil that's eating at my muscles. But we've got to be a little careful playing with potassium supplements, as both low and high values impact the electrical system of the heart.
> 
> Bought magnesium as well, 300 mg. Had a look at my multi vitamin supplement, it contains 100 mg. So that will make 400, which is just above the recommended daily dose of 375 mg. Have no idea of the potassium content of the multi vitamin though.
> 
> So, starting tomorrow I'll try 10 mmol potassium (which I still believe is 391 mg) and 300 mg magnesium. Can't start tonite as it can't be taken together with the iron supplement.


Now i'm really confused, so high potassium levels is indicated by muscle weakness yet low levels have the same indication wtf

Low potassium symptoms
Weakness, tiredness, or cramping in arm or leg muscles, sometimes severe enough to cause inability to move arms or legs due to weakness (much like a paralysis)

My legs have been weak as fook since i had that weird thing earlier, now wondering if its because of the magnesium as theres not really that much potassium in these tablets.

Oh I dunno, i'm totally lost now. I will be trying the charcoal tablets tomorrow (really pisses me off when my finger twitches and i move the curser or refresh the page, always do something to really piss me off)
off my topic slightly but did i mention how i awoke at 0545 this morning. I'm not sure if it happened or was a dream but my legs jolted, not just once but multiple times getting faster and faster until my legs were straight, it woke me up and i remember it still doing it but i can't remember if it was real or a dream now for some reason. Weird!!

ok charcoal tablets - "ctivated Charcoal For Stomach Bloating. With its ability to absorb most poisons, charcoal can be very effective in soaking up the less harmful, but uncomfortable, acids and gases that accumulate in your gut"
Lady at the local supermarket (Tesco) told me about them, said it got rid of her bloated stomach really quickly.
I have googled to see if there is an interaction with nardil and there isn't. I would advice though to not take the charcoal around the same time of day as the nardil. May absorb it.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Genius in my book :grin2:
> 
> I was quite clever at school but because i played footy all my mates were thick as **** haha - at our school whilst I was doing double maths, my mates were ****ing about on mopeds in the playground learning how to drive on their B-Tec course - we used to hang out the window shouting B-Tec in a spazzy voice at them !! Now some of them are ****ing minted and I`m back living with ma and ****ing pa !! **** education.


Yeah I never really wanted to learn anything at school, it just didn't interest me. When something did hold my attention I usually graded well in it. I think in the whole 5 yrs maybe one thing kept my attention haha :grin2::nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Genius in my book :grin2:
> 
> I was quite clever at school but because i played footy all my mates were thick as **** haha - at our school whilst I was doing double maths, my mates were ****ing about on mopeds in the playground learning how to drive on their B-Tec course - we used to hang out the window shouting B-Tec in a spazzy voice at them !! Now some of them are ****ing minted and I`m back living with ma and ****ing pa !! **** education.


Me and a mate opened the tin later on that day and as we were walking across the bridge that went over the road spotted an oncoming bicycle rider. I chucked a burger and it splatted all over his bald head, it was a perfect shot hahaha. for the next hour we were running from one side of the bridge to the other as he chased us blocking our exit. Man I remember not being able to run very well because I was laughing so hard!! :grin2::grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Now i'm really confused, so high potassium levels is indicated by muscle weakness yet low levels have the same indication wtf
> 
> Low potassium symptoms
> Weakness, tiredness, or cramping in arm or leg muscles, sometimes severe enough to cause inability to move arms or legs due to weakness (much like a paralysis)
> 
> My legs have been weak as fook since i had that weird thing earlier, now wondering if its because of the magnesium as theres not really that much potassium in these tablets.
> 
> Oh I dunno, i'm totally lost now. I will be trying the charcoal tablets tomorrow (really pisses me off when my finger twitches and i move the curser or refresh the page, always do something to really piss me off)
> off my topic slightly but did i mention how i awoke at 0545 this morning. I'm not sure if it happened or was a dream but my legs jolted, not just once but multiple times getting faster and faster until my legs were straight, it woke me up and i remember it still doing it but i can't remember if it was real or a dream now for some reason. Weird!!
> 
> ok charcoal tablets - "ctivated Charcoal For Stomach Bloating. With its ability to absorb most poisons, charcoal can be very effective in soaking up the less harmful, but uncomfortable, acids and gases that accumulate in your gut"
> Lady at the local supermarket (Tesco) told me about them, said it got rid of her bloated stomach really quickly.
> I have googled to see if there is an interaction with nardil and there isn't. I would advice though to not take the charcoal around the same time of day as the nardil. May absorb it.


Too much magnesium won't give the same symptoms as too much potassium. I checked the pharmacy's pages about the magnesium supplements, it says you can try 300-600 mg for RLS, and that they have no data on what too much magnesium is, and what it may do. In other words, no major stuff has happened to people who take a lot of magnesium, as it then would have been documented. So I am not worried about the magnesium. It's the potassium I have respect for, but I'm gonna try. I wish we analysed potassium at our own lab at the ward (we analyse only stuff like CRP, Hb, INR), then I could have checked it myself. But we need to send all samples to the hospital lab, which would require a doctor's name on it, and they would get my results.

Going for bloodtests in mid september to check my iron levels - gonna tick off magnesium and potassium on the form before I hand it to the nurse, so at least I'll get it done then.

Yeah, and about the charcoal - that's really intended for soaking up tablets or booze or whatever, you know that, right? They give that to people who try ODing on drugs. So Nardil should not be in your stomach at all when ingesting charcoal, or it will soak them up, inactivating them. Charcoal's nasty stuff, I hope you got tablets or capsules rather than the liquid stuff. And yeah, your poop will be black from now on  Let us know how it works! (For the stomach bloating, we don't need pictures of your poop.)


----------



## V1bzz

> we don't need pictures of your poop


Dang it


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Too much magnesium won't give the same symptoms as too much potassium. I checked the pharmacy's pages about the magnesium supplements, it says you can try 300-600 mg for RLS, and that they have no data on what too much magnesium is, and what it may do. In other words, no major stuff has happened to people who take a lot of magnesium, as it then would have been documented. So I am not worried about the magnesium. It's the potassium I have respect for, but I'm gonna try. I wish we analysed potassium at our own lab at the ward (we analyse only stuff like CRP, Hb, INR), then I could have checked it myself. But we need to send all samples to the hospital lab, which would require a doctor's name on it, and they would get my results.
> 
> Going for bloodtests in mid september to check my iron levels - gonna tick off magnesium and potassium on the form before I hand it to the nurse, so at least I'll get it done then.
> 
> Yeah, and about the charcoal - that's really intended for soaking up tablets or booze or whatever, you know that, right? They give that to people who try ODing on drugs. So Nardil should not be in your stomach at all when ingesting charcoal, or it will soak them up, inactivating them. Charcoal's nasty stuff, I hope you got tablets or capsules rather than the liquid stuff. And yeah, your poop will be black from now on  Let us know how it works! (For the stomach bloating, we don't need pictures of your poop.)


How much time should I give it before taking after Nardil? is a couple of hours enough? should be right?


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> How much time should I give it before taking after Nardil? is a couple of hours enough? should be right?


I dunno. I would probably give it more time. Depends on what else is in your stomach too. If nardil is there with loads of food it takes much longer for it all to pass on.


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp @SFC01 @Tandorini @watertouch

Smashed my interview, test and driving assessment today. I was cracking jokes when we were chatting and wasn't too anxious driving with a stranger assessing me.

They said they will offer me a proposal today at some point for me to accept or refuse, so i had a good attitude and seemed perfect for the role. I just smashed it today folks, anxiety was there at times but i was able to speak normally and allow my character to come through more :grin2::clap

This business is going to make me crazy money, they are going to pay me £500 a week just while i'm training. Totally not used to making this much money. For so long now I have just done menial work and part time work cos of the anxiety, now i'm going to be the boss and run my own business. Really proud of myself for going for this, i'm just tired of life passing me buy doing sh1t jobs with sh1t pay when I know I can do much better than that. Nardil has given me the drive to do this, so it must be working, I just don't feel it much. Exciting but hard times ahead. They say I can earn anywhere from 30k - 60k my first year. crazy money :O
I'm not a material person at all, not sure what I will do with it, I will finally be able to get some decent music promotions going on though and get a new wardrobe 

Once I had finished about an hour after I felt really unwell, head was spinning and felt sick, then narcolepsy kicked in. Lasted about an hour and now I am fine again.

Sounds gay but I think it out of me a bit today. That or these meds are doing weird **** to me at the moment. It wasn't unlike how I felt yesterday when I thought I had the food interaction. Looking now like it's some kind of weird side effect :serious:
@Tandorini - they still didn't have the charcoal in :wife

My routine is a get up, do my vitamin pill then take the magnesium while trying to drink a pint of water. I make a cup of tea and wait for my body to wake up, then take my nardil by either under the tongue or biting in half and swallowing, or sometimes take them just before eating toast.


----------



## V1bzz

*A Bit about activated Charcoal.....*
.
*Activated charcoal tablets are a 100% natural way to ease indigestion, heartburn and flatulence.

It alleviates the symptoms of Dyspepsia (chronic or recurrent discomfort in the abdomen accompanied by bloating, belching, nausea) offers relief from occasional diarrhoea

You can take in case of food, alcohol poisoning.

Benefits of Activated Charcoal:

- Neutralise and Absorb Gases;

- Maintains a Clean Colon; 









- Supports Healthy Digestion;

- Maintain Fresh Breath;

- Can be taken during pregnancy and lactation;

- 100% Natural.*
.

I've purchased just 20 tabs from below to test out, if these don't work then there is no cure for Nardil pot belly...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151887398437


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I just smashed it today folks, anxiety was there at times but i was able to speak normally and allow my character to come through more :grin2::clap


Nice! Hope it works out for you!!!

Let you character come through more, is that a good thing? > Hahaha You seem to be on the same low lvl as me and @SFC01 :grin2: :clap But i like it!!!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @WillComp @SFC01 @Tandorini @watertouch
> 
> Smashed my interview, test and driving assessment today. I was cracking jokes when we were chatting and wasn't too anxious driving with a stranger assessing me.
> 
> They said they will offer me a proposal today at some point for me to accept or refuse, so i had a good attitude and seemed perfect for the role. I just smashed it today folks, anxiety was there at times but i was able to speak normally and allow my character to come through more :grin2::clap
> 
> This business is going to make me crazy money, they are going to pay me £500 a week just while i'm training. Totally not used to making this much money. For so long now I have just done menial work and part time work cos of the anxiety, now i'm going to be the boss and run my own business. Really proud of myself for going for this, i'm just tired of life passing me buy doing sh1t jobs with sh1t pay when I know I can do much better than that. Nardil has given me the drive to do this, so it must be working, I just don't feel it much. Exciting but hard times ahead. They say I can earn anywhere from 30k - 60k my first year. crazy money :O
> I'm not a material person at all, not sure what I will do with it, I will finally be able to get some decent music promotions going on though and get a new wardrobe
> 
> Once I had finished about an hour after I felt really unwell, head was spinning and felt sick, then narcolepsy kicked in. Lasted about an hour and now I am fine again.
> 
> Sounds gay but I think it out of me a bit today. That or these meds are doing weird **** to me at the moment. It wasn't unlike how I felt yesterday when I thought I had the food interaction. Looking now like it's some kind of weird side effect :serious:
> 
> @Tandorini - they still didn't have the charcoal in :wife
> 
> My routine is a get up, do my vitamin pill then take the magnesium while trying to drink a pint of water. I make a cup of tea and wait for my body to wake up, then take my nardil by either under the tongue or biting in half and swallowing, or sometimes take them just before eating toast.


Thats great about the job! Awesome, congrats!

I have a job, but have been called off sick since april last year. Been working a few hours a week, but since starting Nardil Ive bern able to work a lot more. Gonna work this weekend, it will be my first evening shifts and first time I work three days in a row. I hope ill manage okay.


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Nice! Hope it works out for you!!!
> 
> Let you character come through more, is that a good thing? > Hahaha You seem to be on the same low lvl as me and @*SFC01* :grin2: :clap But i like it!!!


Brothers from some other mothers :grin2:

That will mean more threads ruined now there is 3 of us !!


----------



## SFC01

oh and well done today @V1bzz, good stuff mate


----------



## watertouch

Tandorini said:


> Going for bloodtests in mid september to check my iron levels - gonna tick off magnesium and potassium on the form before I hand it to the nurse, so at least I'll get it done then.


Can be good to check, you being a female and bleeds once a month. Me being male im carefull of not taking any Iron supplements, (since im also high in Hb and iron)...

But make sure you stop the Iron Supplement a couple of days before the test or it will give a false "high", also...

Check not only *iron *but also Transferrin... "P-Järnmättnad" can be of value and S-ferritin if you are low/high.

Nice for you to have access to some "bloodtest thingy" with your job, I would so be the wrong person to have access to that :b, like Gluten/celiaki fast test, other test sticks and "SR" tests.

Hehe my Dr gave me this and said: Make sure it *doesn't *get over *10 vials*/tubes of blood and fill in what else you wanna check! :grin2:


http://imgur.com/BkDrO

(i should have taken an after picture from when i was done with it!)


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> Brothers from some other mothers :grin2:
> 
> That will mean more threads ruined now there is 3 of us !!


*Haha yes!*
Question would be if its not better to NOT get any replies or this?:grin2:>
(and then we 3amigos ruins it)
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/a-parnate-to-nardil-thread-2013289/#post1090036057


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Nice! Hope it works out for you!!!
> 
> Let you character come through more, is that a good thing? > Hahaha You seem to be on the same low lvl as me and @SFC01 :grin2: :clap But i like it!!!


hahaha yeah and I love being able to let it out naturally :grin2::b


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Thats great about the job! Awesome, congrats!
> 
> I have a job, but have been called off sick since april last year. Been working a few hours a week, but since starting Nardil Ive bern able to work a lot more. Gonna work this weekend, it will be my first evening shifts and first time I work three days in a row. I hope ill manage okay.


That's great. I think you will do just fine. It's weird, the nardil side effects are less noticeable when working hard, seems to be worse when you get to think about it and feel it more because of thinking about it too much haha :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Brothers from some other mothers :grin2:
> 
> That will mean more threads ruined now there is 3 of us !!


Dude I have such a bad rep for doing that from other forums hahaha, it's like a favourite past time of mine >

You guys need to tag me more, do you just join threads showing on the right there ------>>>
Or is there another way to see what topics are trending or new?

I'm such a noob on this forum even though ive been here since March. I hve this thread book marked on my browser so always click that to come here.
Sometimes write in other threads but don't know how to keep up with it if i'm not tagged or mentioned.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Can be good to check, you being a female and bleeds once a month. Me being male im carefull of not taking any Iron supplements, (since im also high in Hb and iron)...
> 
> But make sure you stop the Iron Supplement a couple of days before the test or it will give a false "high", also...
> 
> Check not only *iron *but also Transferrin... "P-Järnmättnad" can be of value and S-ferritin if you are low/high.
> 
> Nice for you to have access to some "bloodtest thingy" with your job, I would so be the wrong person to have access to that :b, like Gluten/celiaki fast test, other test sticks and "SR" tests.
> 
> Hehe my Dr gave me this and said: Make sure it *doesn't *get over *10 vials*/tubes of blood and fill in what else you wanna check! :grin2:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/BkDrO
> 
> (i should have taken an after picture from when i was done with it!)


> I can imagine


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> *Haha yes!*
> Question would be if its not better to NOT get any replies or this?:grin2:>
> (and then we 3amigos ruins it)
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/a-parnate-to-nardil-thread-2013289/#post1090036057


:grin2::grin2: omg that cracked me up reading that hahaha>>:clap:clap:clap


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> *Haha yes!*
> Question would be if its not better to NOT get any replies or this?:grin2:>
> (and then we 3amigos ruins it)
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/a-parnate-to-nardil-thread-2013289/#post1090036057





> If it fails again I will try snorting then i guess @SFC01 option. I may even dissolve it down with water and tip it in my eye, if i get desperate enough ill by a bike pump and squirt that **** through my ear or possibly up my japs eye. desperate times, desperate measures.


----------



## V1bzz

Christ that thread is brilliant, just had me in stitches the stupid crap we were posting that day. hilarious and brilliant :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz - ****ing japs eye haha - thats what its called though - I know of no other name for it haha

Yeah I usually look to the right for any thread to join to ruin and maybe sometime to add a bit of knowledge. Will tag you in a bit more so you can join the fun.

Me and @watertouch have done the same as above to quite a few threads now


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz - ****ing japs eye haha - thats what its called though - I know of no other name for it haha
> 
> Yeah I usually look to the right for any thread to join to ruin and maybe sometime to add a bit of knowledge. Will tag you in a bit more so you can join the fun.
> 
> Me and @watertouch have done the same as above to quite a few threads now


Laughter is the best cure mate :grin2::grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Laughter is the best cure mate :grin2::grin2:


Like the photo mate :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Like the photo mate :grin2:


Sums me up perfectly LOL


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Sums me up perfectly LOL


quite, didnt want to say anything :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Just found the perfect picture to sum up how I felt when I first started taking Nardil!! lmfao


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> @*WillComp* @*SFC01* @*Tandorini* @*watertouch*
> 
> *Smashed my interview, test and driving assessment today. I was cracking jokes when we were chatting and wasn't too anxious driving with a stranger assessing me.*
> 
> They said they will offer me a proposal today at some point for me to accept or refuse, so i had a good attitude and seemed perfect for the role. I just smashed it today folks, anxiety was there at times but i was able to speak normally and allow my character to come through more :grin2::clap
> 
> This business is going to make me crazy money, they are going to pay me £500 a week just while i'm training. Totally not used to making this much money. For so long now I have just done menial work and part time work cos of the anxiety, now i'm going to be the boss and run my own business. Really proud of myself for going for this, i'm just tired of life passing me buy doing sh1t jobs with sh1t pay when I know I can do much better than that. Nardil has given me the drive to do this, so it must be working, I just don't feel it much. Exciting but hard times ahead. They say I can earn anywhere from 30k - 60k my first year. crazy money :O
> I'm not a material person at all, not sure what I will do with it, I will finally be able to get some decent music promotions going on though and get a new wardrobe
> 
> Once I had finished about an hour after I felt really unwell, head was spinning and felt sick, then narcolepsy kicked in. Lasted about an hour and now I am fine again.
> 
> Sounds gay but I think it out of me a bit today. That or these meds are doing weird **** to me at the moment. It wasn't unlike how I felt yesterday when I thought I had the food interaction. Looking now like it's some kind of weird side effect :serious:
> 
> @*Tandorini* - they still didn't have the charcoal in :wife
> 
> My routine is a get up, do my vitamin pill then take the magnesium while trying to drink a pint of water. I make a cup of tea and wait for my body to wake up, then take my nardil by either under the tongue or biting in half and swallowing, or sometimes take them just before eating toast.


 @V1bzz - Brilliant! Nice job, man! That's definitely Nardil working.

When Nardil starting working for me, it was very subtle. It didn't suddenly kick in like other people describe. After a few day/weeks, you'll notice that this happens more frequently and you're less anxious and more like your true character in front of people.

Congrats on the successful interview. Now you gotta wear those glasses out in public. :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> That's great. I think you will do just fine. It's weird, the nardil side effects are less noticeable when working hard, seems to be worse when you get to think about it and feel it more because of thinking about it too much haha :nerd:


Well, it's more like battling through the fatigue and stuff, I guess. Which my physical therapist really recommended I don't do. When I get home I am really, really worn, and it may take me a couple of days to fully recover. So I am a little anxious, but I am free to do what I want - I can just call in and tell them I'm not coming anyway. But I really wanna try this time, and make a point of not having a single plan on Monday, so that I can just relax.


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> Can be good to check, you being a female and bleeds once a month. Me being male im carefull of not taking any Iron supplements, (since im also high in Hb and iron)...
> 
> But make sure you stop the Iron Supplement a couple of days before the test or it will give a false "high", also...
> 
> Check not only *iron *but also Transferrin... "P-Järnmättnad" can be of value and S-ferritin if you are low/high.
> 
> Nice for you to have access to some "bloodtest thingy" with your job, I would so be the wrong person to have access to that :b, like Gluten/celiaki fast test, other test sticks and "SR" tests.
> 
> Hehe my Dr gave me this and said: Make sure it *doesn't *get over *10 vials*/tubes of blood and fill in what else you wanna check! :grin2:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/BkDrO
> 
> (i should have taken an after picture from when i was done with it!)


Yeah, I know all that, I'm a nurse, remember?  Nah, thanks for the advice though. It's the ferritin that was low, hemoglobin was okay. I didn't get the values on any of them except for the ferritin, though. On the next blood tests the doctor checked all boxed related to iron and stuff.

I've been meaning to check my blood sugar when at work, just to see how it is, but I am never really fasting while at work, except if I am late for lunch. I always have breakfast before work. I've never done an SR on myself, allthough I have access to it. Mostly I let students or new employes practice on me if the need to, that way I can keep an eye on stuff like hemoglobin


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> How much time should I give it before taking after Nardil? is a couple of hours enough? should be right?


If you take all your other meds in the morning, why not just take the charcoal at night time? That way you're 100 % safe. Or take it after dinner or something, it might soak up some of the calories


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz - Brilliant! Nice job, man! That's definitely Nardil working.
> 
> When Nardil starting working for me, it was very subtle. It didn't suddenly kick in like other people describe. After a few day/weeks, you'll notice that this happens more frequently and you're less anxious and more like your true character in front of people.
> 
> Congrats on the successful interview. Now you gotta wear those glasses out in public. :grin2:


Thanks man....that photo was taken on a night out :grin2::nerd: funny what a couple of bottles of red wine will do to a man lol


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Well, it's more like battling through the fatigue and stuff, I guess. Which my physical therapist really recommended I don't do. When I get home I am really, really worn, and it may take me a couple of days to fully recover. So I am a little anxious, but I am free to do what I want - I can just call in and tell them I'm not coming anyway. But I really wanna try this time, and make a point of not having a single plan on Monday, so that I can just relax.


That sounds like a good plan, maybe sleep all day :nerd:

When I did those 4 days work in a row I was totally done in for the 3 days the following week and that was after 3 days off. Was totally exhausted!

This new job will be 5 days, it's a couple of weeks before I start and then 4 weeks training so i'm hoping the fatigue improves rather than gets worse for me in that time before hitting the road and running about like an idiot...well i can't run yet cos of the knees and ankles, just walk as fast as my pot belly will allow :b


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> If you take all your other meds in the morning, why not just take the charcoal at night time? That way you're 100 % safe. Or take it after dinner or something, it might soak up some of the calories


Yeah, I was thinking the same. They arrive on Monday :clap Hoping this is the last thing I have to buy now!!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Dang it


Told a patient today the exact oppsite - I told him he had to show me his poop. He was not happy. Thought about you. You'd have been thrilled. :banana


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Told a patient today the exact oppsite - I told him he had to show me his poop. He was not happy. Thought about you. You'd have been thrilled. :banana


----------



## Tandorini

Totally off topic, but I just realised something that was a bit upsetting. Not many people irl know that I am active at any forums, so wasn't really sure who to talk to. A couple of days ago there was this Norwegian 15 year old girl who stabbed a 17 year old to death at a grocery store, and seriously injured another woman.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2017/07/27/teen-dies-after-grocery-store-stabbings/

What I just realised is that this is the girl who was very active at the Norwegian forum I am on. She kept going on and on about not getting any help, while obviously being helped in all kinds of ways, just not the way she wanted. She was chronically suicidal and attention seeking, as well as loads of other stuff. I remember finding her somewhat creepy at first, she wrote like an adult, or rather like a psychiatrist. She must have read through all her journals, researching everything, she would seem so detached, summing up her life and illnesses like she was writing up a report. So full of "insight" of her own problems, but still totally unwilling to take responsibility for them. Probably the only way she knew how to talk about these things. She was taken from her family a few years ago, been in care ever since.

It just feels so odd. I didn't know her, I don't think I ever commented on her posts, but I read a lot of them, and she wrote a LOT, really giving up all her information except for her name and town. So finding out she at last got so desperate she got a knife and stabbed two people, that's just unreal. I figured she'd eventually kill herself, not another person. She said she was aggressive and stuff, but I never thought of her as someone who would be a threat to another person's life.

So. A bit off topic, as I said. Just had to let it out somewhere.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Totally off topic, but I just realised something that was a bit upsetting. Not many people irl know that I am active at any forums, so wasn't really sure who to talk to. A couple of days ago there was this Norwegian 15 year old girl who stabbed a 17 year old to death at a grocery store, and seriously injured another woman.
> 
> http://www.newsinenglish.no/2017/07/27/teen-dies-after-grocery-store-stabbings/
> 
> What I just realised is that this is the girl who was very active at the Norwegian forum I am on. She kept going on and on about not getting any help, while obviously being helped in all kinds of ways, just not the way she wanted. She was chronically suicidal and attention seeking, as well as loads of other stuff. I remember finding her somewhat creepy at first, she wrote like an adult, or rather like a psychiatrist. She must have read through all her journals, researching everything, she would seem so detached, summing up her life and illnesses like she was writing up a report. So full of "insight" of her own problems, but still totally unwilling to take responsibility for them. Probably the only way she knew how to talk about these things. She was taken from her family a few years ago, been in care ever since.
> 
> It just feels so odd. I didn't know her, I don't think I ever commented on her posts, but I read a lot of them, and she wrote a LOT, really giving up all her information except for her name and town. So finding out she at last got so desperate she got a knife and stabbed two people, that's just unreal. I figured she'd eventually kill herself, not another person. She said she was aggressive and stuff, but I never thought of her as someone who would be a threat to another person's life.
> 
> So. A bit off topic, as I said. Just had to let it out somewhere.


Wow that must be a proper head fckuk, very very random indeed. For all you know though she could have just been a psycho. They can't understand the way they are or the way they think. I classic sign of someone who is likely to kill someone is someone who tortures and kills animals, like cats dogs etc.

I feel for her that she is that messed up, I feel more for the lives she has destroyed and the fact is, she was probably just a psycho. By the sounds of it she wrote like one.

Ugh hope we don't meet anyone here like that. Can't be arsed with the wondering if you could have said anything to change sh1t like your prob thinking a lot about now. don't do it to yourself


----------



## V1bzz

Earth calling @WillComp come in @WillComp

We haven't seen you around for a bit mate. hope everything is ok? let us know dude in pm or here so we don't worry.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Wow that must be a proper head fckuk, very very random indeed. For all you know though she could have just been a psycho. They can't understand the way they are or the way they think. I classic sign of someone who is likely to kill someone is someone who tortures and kills animals, like cats dogs etc.
> 
> I feel for her that she is that messed up, I feel more for the lives she has destroyed and the fact is, she was probably just a psycho. By the sounds of it she wrote like one.
> 
> Ugh hope we don't meet anyone here like that. Can't be arsed with the wondering if you could have said anything to change sh1t like your prob thinking a lot about now. don't do it to yourself


I never talked to her, if I had had a lot of contact with her I would probably have wondered if there was something I could have done. Not by changing her in any way, but by alarming the authorities. The hospital admitted their mistake too - they thought her dangerous of herself, not of others. Exactly like I thought. She had been violent against others before, but that was with fosterparents, carers, guards and stuff, in situations where they would try to enforce rules or something. Her stabbing innocent people was really something that took everyone by surprise. I can't help but think that a person like her, so desperate to be at institutions, wanting to be taking care of at the hospital - could she have thought that oh well, at least this will make them have to keep me locked up?

Just a little shook up and surprised right now, I am in no way blaming myself or anything. Just had to share it with someone.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I never talked to her, if I had had a lot of contact with her I would probably have wondered if there was something I could have done. Not by changing her in any way, but by alarming the authorities. The hospital admitted their mistake too - they thought her dangerous of herself, not of others. Exactly like I thought. She had been violent against others before, but that was with fosterparents, carers, guards and stuff, in situations where they would try to enforce rules or something. Her stabbing innocent people was really something that took everyone by surprise. I can't help but think that a person like her, so desperate to be at institutions, wanting to be taking care of at the hospital - could she have thought that oh well, at least this will make them have to keep me locked up?
> 
> Just a little shook up and surprised right now, I am in no way blaming myself or anything. Just had to share it with someone.


Yeah it's sad to think about it that way, that she felt like she had to do something that drastic to finally get the help that she needs in a mental hospital.
Damn, I feel bad for her now. Especially since I know how hard it is to get the right help, must be so much worse for a 15 year old girl! nearly impossible in fact, I would imagine.

Too many different angles to look at of what may or may not have happened.

The saddest thing about it is that a 15 year old girl should be feeling that way at all. She had either been through a lot of bad stuff, or was born a psycho...


----------



## V1bzz

Quick update on moi, Been at 75 mg for 2 1/2 weeks now, am feeling some axiety relief, still hoping for the 3 perfect days to return and be a part of my life full time 

My Activated Charcoal arrived yesterday, Took my first dose (x3) at about 4-5 pm, then second (x3) between 8-9 pm.
Last night I realized a noticeable difference in the pot belly and also this morning. After 2 doses!! My stomach was nearly flat at times!! :grin2::grin2:
Once it's completely gone I will take a maintenance dose of (x3) 2 or 3 times a week just to keep the bad boy from coming back.

♪♫♬ Oh, happy day ♪♫♬
♪♫♬ (Oh, happy day) ♪♫♬
♪♫♬ Oh, happy day ♪♫♬
♪♫♬ (Oh, happy day) ♪♫♬


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Yeah it's sad to think about it that way, that she felt like she had to do something that drastic to finally get the help that she needs in a mental hospital.
> Damn, I feel bad for her now. Especially since I know how hard it is to get the right help, must be so much worse for a 15 year old girl! nearly impossible in fact, I would imagine.
> 
> Too many different angles to look at of what may or may not have happened.
> 
> The saddest thing about it is that a 15 year old girl should be feeling that way at all. She had either been through a lot of bad stuff, or was born a psycho...


She had a terrible childhood, with a lot of domestic violence, where she was singled out to take most of the blame. A kid raised in that kind of environment will get permanent damage, as she lived there until the age of 11 or so. Of course she is sick, but I always have little patience for those who complain about the system the whole time. She bragged about being able to manipulate anyone. She climbed the fence signaling she wanted to jump off bridges 7 times over a short period of time. After on of the attempts she wrote about how she finally had a good conversation with someone, that the police had been great, the officer talking to her had really got how she felt. And being attention seeking as she was, and struggling to cope with life like other people live it, she used those "bridge jumps" as a way to communicate. She really needed therapy, to be able to learn how to deal with personal crisis in other ways. People like her should almost never be admitted to hospitals, because that will be their strategy - having someone else limit their freedom and in that way not having to do anything themselves. Again and again her problems are dealt with by restraints, hospitals, police, and she will not learn to control herself in any other way.

Like if I get really mad and wanna break something (doesn't really happen, but just for the purpose of an example), I would have to calm myself down, right? I have the abilities to think of consequences, and just take control over my emotions, at least prevent myself from acting impulsively. She doesn't have that control. So she does something drastic - either saying she wants to jump from a bridge, or take a lot of tablets. That way someone has to help her, and take control. It's a vicious circle - that's her only coping mechanism. Of course she has to level up from time to time to still be heard.

It often seems cruel, unresponsible, malpractice, when doctors won't admit suicidal teens. But it really isn't in their best interest over time. They will only get worse. When leaving all control to other people, of course you will also blame them when something goes wrong. She has PTSD and borderline personality disorder, and she is cronically suicidal. Probably has other diagnoses as well, a lot of what she tells of as her "symptoms" really fit antisocial personality disorder. From a young age fighting, running away, straying from place to place.

I feel bad for her upbringing, and bad for the damage that has been done to her. I don't doubt she is in massive emotional pain. But once you kill some random young people...then I dunno. I just lost most of my compassion for her. Inflicting pain on herself, tying up the emergency resources, being aggressive to carers...that's mostly pain for her. And people who work with this as their profession. Killing someone innocent however, that's a completely different story.

Last year there was this really devastating article (only in Norwegian) about a 30 year old woman who had been in a psyciatric hospital for years. For the past two years mostly in restraints. She had restraints on her arms and around her belly when sitting in chairs, sleeping, showering, mostly at all times. She had aspergers syndrome and I don't remember what else. She did a lot of self harm. She had done something to her neck/throat, which required bandages, and it was a wound that would heal terribly slow. Once she was out of restraints she would rip the bandages off, digging into the wound with her hands. She said she just couldn't help it.

She went to court to try to get herself released from the hospital. The article was called "sentenced to live". The debated what kind of life was this, how could this be in her best interest. The doctors admitted that this was quite a hopeless situation, but then again, if they released her of her restraints and set her free, they were 100 % sure she would commit suicide right away. So the situation was really bad - the more they keep her in restraints, the worse she will get. But if releasing her, she will off herself in a heart beat. They have no idea how to make her better. Having aspergers syndrom she is really hard to treat, as her social and cognitive functions aren't all that great. I wonder what's going to happen to her in the years to come. There was a lot of debate around this, and everyone agreed that they should have done something else in the first place, that putting her in restraints was a bad idea from begin with, but then again, what should they have done.

Imagine living a life in restraints. How are you ever going to grow up and be a normal adult, living an independent life, taking resposibility of your actions, when you for the past few years haven't even been allowed to control your own arms?

Wow, this got long. Probably bad English too, as I didn't really think much, just poured it all out here


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Quick update on moi, Been at 75 mg for 2 1/2 weeks now, am feeling some axiety relief, still hoping for the 3 perfect days to return and be a part of my life full time
> 
> My Activated Charcoal arrived yesterday, Took my first dose (x3) at about 4-5 pm, then second (x3) between 8-9 pm.
> Last night I realized a noticeable difference in the pot belly and also this morning. After 2 doses!! My stomach was nearly flat at times!! :grin2::grin2:
> Once it's completely gone I will take a maintenance dose of (x3) 2 or 3 times a week just to keep the bad boy from coming back.
> 
> ♪♫♬ Oh, happy day ♪♫♬
> ♪♫♬ (Oh, happy day) ♪♫♬
> ♪♫♬ Oh, happy day ♪♫♬
> ♪♫♬ (Oh, happy day) ♪♫♬


That's great! Both about the anxiety and the charcoal.

I am not feeling any effect of the potassium and magnesium. I still jerk/twitch when relaxing, and feel muscle weakness. But I do believe that the lactic acid has gotten gradually better over the past few weeks, which makes me think it might someday go away.

I just think it is so odd how sore and stiff my muscles are. I haven't been working out or doing much yoga for a few weeks, but I got quite flexible when doing yoga, and I wasn't all that bad from to begin with either. But now when I try some excercises at home, I feel my muscles and tendons being sore, and I have to work really hard to stretch into the positions I did before. It's like starting all over again, or even at a lower level than I was before I started yoga. It's so weird. My neck is stiff, the muscles on the back of my thighs are tight. Really all muscles in my thighs are tighter than before. That's where I get most cramps and start shaking too. So annoying.

Also I hurt my achilles heel somehow, so I can't do stretches with my left ancle. Starting to hurt more and more when I do daily activitites too. Went to the doctor and got a referral to physiotherapy, and started calling the clinics near where I live. Hardly anyone answered the phone, and the one clinic which did, told me to call back on Aug 14th... I am afraid of it just getting worse and become cronic. Gonna have to call some private clinics tomorrow I think, just to get started, and then switch to one in the public health system once they're done with their lengthy summer vacations.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> That's great! Both about the anxiety and the charcoal.
> 
> I am not feeling any effect of the potassium and magnesium. I still jerk/twitch when relaxing, and feel muscle weakness. But I do believe that the lactic acid has gotten gradually better over the past few weeks, which makes me think it might someday go away.
> 
> I just think it is so odd how sore and stiff my muscles are. I haven't been working out or doing much yoga for a few weeks, but I got quite flexible when doing yoga, and I wasn't all that bad from to begin with either. But now when I try some excercises at home, I feel my muscles and tendons being sore, and I have to work really hard to stretch into the positions I did before. It's like starting all over again, or even at a lower level than I was before I started yoga. It's so weird. My neck is stiff, the muscles on the back of my thighs are tight. Really all muscles in my thighs are tighter than before. That's where I get most cramps and start shaking too. So annoying.
> 
> Also I hurt my achilles heel somehow, so I can't do stretches with my left ancle. Starting to hurt more and more when I do daily activitites too. Went to the doctor and got a referral to physiotherapy, and started calling the clinics near where I live. Hardly anyone answered the phone, and the one clinic which did, told me to call back on Aug 14th... I am afraid of it just getting worse and become cronic. Gonna have to call some private clinics tomorrow I think, just to get started, and then switch to one in the public health system once they're done with their lengthy summer vacations.


arg, yes my muscle fatigue has returned today also. hope its not here to stay! always in my lower back just above the bum and also my legs! (just above the poop hole :grin2: )
Are you still taking the magnesium? I take it just once a day now. It really does seem to help with my sore knees and ankles. since i cut down the pain has mostly returned and movement flexibility has been restricted. back to an old man lol


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> She had a terrible childhood, with a lot of domestic violence, where she was singled out to take most of the blame. A kid raised in that kind of environment will get permanent damage, as she lived there until the age of 11 or so. Of course she is sick, but I always have little patience for those who complain about the system the whole time. She bragged about being able to manipulate anyone. She climbed the fence signaling she wanted to jump off bridges 7 times over a short period of time. After on of the attempts she wrote about how she finally had a good conversation with someone, that the police had been great, the officer talking to her had really got how she felt. And being attention seeking as she was, and struggling to cope with life like other people live it, she used those "bridge jumps" as a way to communicate. She really needed therapy, to be able to learn how to deal with personal crisis in other ways. People like her should almost never be admitted to hospitals, because that will be their strategy - having someone else limit their freedom and in that way not having to do anything themselves. Again and again her problems are dealt with by restraints, hospitals, police, and she will not learn to control herself in any other way.
> 
> Like if I get really mad and wanna break something (doesn't really happen, but just for the purpose of an example), I would have to calm myself down, right? I have the abilities to think of consequences, and just take control over my emotions, at least prevent myself from acting impulsively. She doesn't have that control. So she does something drastic - either saying she wants to jump from a bridge, or take a lot of tablets. That way someone has to help her, and take control. It's a vicious circle - that's her only coping mechanism. Of course she has to level up from time to time to still be heard.
> 
> It often seems cruel, unresponsible, malpractice, when doctors won't admit suicidal teens. But it really isn't in their best interest over time. They will only get worse. When leaving all control to other people, of course you will also blame them when something goes wrong. She has PTSD and borderline personality disorder, and she is cronically suicidal. Probably has other diagnoses as well, a lot of what she tells of as her "symptoms" really fit antisocial personality disorder. From a young age fighting, running away, straying from place to place.
> 
> I feel bad for her upbringing, and bad for the damage that has been done to her. I don't doubt she is in massive emotional pain. But once you kill some random young people...then I dunno. I just lost most of my compassion for her. Inflicting pain on herself, tying up the emergency resources, being aggressive to carers...that's mostly pain for her. And people who work with this as their profession. Killing someone innocent however, that's a completely different story.
> 
> Last year there was this really devastating article (only in Norwegian) about a 30 year old woman who had been in a psyciatric hospital for years. For the past two years mostly in restraints. She had restraints on her arms and around her belly when sitting in chairs, sleeping, showering, mostly at all times. She had aspergers syndrome and I don't remember what else. She did a lot of self harm. She had done something to her neck/throat, which required bandages, and it was a wound that would heal terribly slow. Once she was out of restraints she would rip the bandages off, digging into the wound with her hands. She said she just couldn't help it.
> 
> She went to court to try to get herself released from the hospital. The article was called "sentenced to live". The debated what kind of life was this, how could this be in her best interest. The doctors admitted that this was quite a hopeless situation, but then again, if they released her of her restraints and set her free, they were 100 % sure she would commit suicide right away. So the situation was really bad - the more they keep her in restraints, the worse she will get. But if releasing her, she will off herself in a heart beat. They have no idea how to make her better. Having aspergers syndrom she is really hard to treat, as her social and cognitive functions aren't all that great. I wonder what's going to happen to her in the years to come. There was a lot of debate around this, and everyone agreed that they should have done something else in the first place, that putting her in restraints was a bad idea from begin with, but then again, what should they have done.
> 
> Imagine living a life in restraints. How are you ever going to grow up and be a normal adult, living an independent life, taking resposibility of your actions, when you for the past few years haven't even been allowed to control your own arms?
> 
> Wow, this got long. Probably bad English too, as I didn't really think much, just poured it all out here


That was an enjoyable read and the english was fine. Would write a longer reply but narcolepsy has kicked in because i had a bloody ice cream and i'm fighting to stay awake right now :frown2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> arg, yes my muscle fatigue has returned today also. hope its not here to stay! always in my lower back just above the bum and also my legs! (just above the poop hole :grin2: )
> Are you still taking the magnesium? I take it just once a day now. It really does seem to help with my sore knees and ankles. since i cut down the pain has mostly returned and movement flexibility has been restricted. back to an old man lol


How much magnesium were you on, and what are you taking now? I take 300 mg, been taking it for roughly a week, I guess. Maybe a little less. I worked straight away for you, didn't it? Stuff never works straight away for me. Takes ages.

I'm not in pain anywere (well, some of my muscles get sore, but that's mostly when I touch them, like if I have tense or stiff muscles). The weakness has mostly been in my thighs, never in my back. Weakness and lactic acid has been throughout my legs and arms, not my core or neck. Tense muscles (certain points that are hurtful to touch) are several places - right now my thighs (several places), two places on my upper back and my face/jaw.

I just had a 90 minutes nap, it's been a while since I last slept during day time, at least for that long. But then again, I've been working a lot, so I could just be exhausted from that. Starting work again in one hour, and then the weekend of work is over, thank God. Both me and my coworkers know that I am not supposed to work at full pace, and control my own time, but it's hard when I see everyone else struggle. Especially during the summer, where there are a lot of new people, and a lot of employes without any formal education, so that the nurses has to do a lot of the chores around their patients too. And the nurse in charge was only barely out of school herself, not knowing the ropes around the ward, and not knowing all the equipment and assessment. She was happy I was there, which felt good of course, but I couldn't just have her run around doing stuff she wasn't sure of, so I've been working my *** off as well. At the other ward at the floor there was only one nurse as well, so I had to go over there to assist a few times. It feels good to contribute, hearing more than once this weekend I have been a true life saver. But I have to stop and think about who I'm doing this for. I am exhausted and feel down now, it's been too much work and stress. I will go to work tonight, but these three days in a row shows me that I am not ready to step up work time this much just yet.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> How much magnesium were you on, and what are you taking now? I take 300 mg, been taking it for roughly a week, I guess. Maybe a little less. I worked straight away for you, didn't it? Stuff never works straight away for me. Takes ages.
> 
> I'm not in pain anywere (well, some of my muscles get sore, but that's mostly when I touch them, like if I have tense or stiff muscles). The weakness has mostly been in my thighs, never in my back. Weakness and lactic acid has been throughout my legs and arms, not my core or neck. Tense muscles (certain points that are hurtful to touch) are several places - right now my thighs (several places), two places on my upper back and my face/jaw.
> 
> I just had a 90 minutes nap, it's been a while since I last slept during day time, at least for that long. But then again, I've been working a lot, so I could just be exhausted from that. Starting work again in one hour, and then the weekend of work is over, thank God. Both me and my coworkers know that I am not supposed to work at full pace, and control my own time, but it's hard when I see everyone else struggle. Especially during the summer, where there are a lot of new people, and a lot of employes without any formal education, so that the nurses has to do a lot of the chores around their patients too. And the nurse in charge was only barely out of school herself, not knowing the ropes around the ward, and not knowing all the equipment and assessment. She was happy I was there, which felt good of course, but I couldn't just have her run around doing stuff she wasn't sure of, so I've been working my *** off as well. At the other ward at the floor there was only one nurse as well, so I had to go over there to assist a few times. It feels good to contribute, hearing more than once this weekend I have been a true life saver. But I have to stop and think about who I'm doing this for. I am exhausted and feel down now, it's been too much work and stress. I will go to work tonight, but these three days in a row shows me that I am not ready to step up work time this much just yet.


Yes, you have to take it easier with the fatigue. The bottle say 1 - 3 times a day then says 375 mg next to the magnesium.
I'm gunna have to take a nap, this narcolepsy is killing me. Nardil has decided it's time for me to wake up every morning at 05:45 so a nap is a good plan i think.

I was fine all day yesterday. didnt feel tired once or get the narcolepsy thing, i didn't have any ice creams though.
Nardil doing my head in, all the nice stuff i like to treat myself with i'm not able to eat :frown2:

Maybe you should try it and see how you sleep? lol


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Yes, you have to take it easier with the fatigue. The bottle say 1 - 3 times a day then says 375 mg next to the magnesium.
> I'm gunna have to take a nap, this narcolepsy is killing me. Nardil has decided it's time for me to wake up every morning at 05:45 so a nap is a good plan i think.
> 
> I was fine all day yesterday. didnt feel tired once or get the narcolepsy thing, i didn't have any ice creams though.
> Nardil doing my head in, all the nice stuff i like to treat myself with i'm not able to eat :frown2:
> 
> Maybe you should try it and see how you sleep? lol


Maybe I should double up on the magnesium then, making it 600 mg.

Yeah, I should take it easy because of the fatigue, but also because of the stress work gives me. I have worked more and more lately, but always being in addition to the other staff, but this weekend I've really had to help out. Didn't even have the time to redress the two wounds I was supposed to. Everyone gets exhausted after a work day like that, but for me the stress leads to more depressed thoughts. This weekend I have noticed myself thinking a lot about the past couple of years, about my hospital stays, about my suicide attempt. Seems like that's a sign of me being too exhausted. But before, that used to happen if I worked more than like 3 hours, even if I controlled my own time. Now I can do a lot more, but I certainly am not far from my breaking point, I can see it. So. Back to vacation.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Maybe I should double up on the magnesium then, making it 600 mg.
> 
> Yeah, I should take it easy because of the fatigue, but also because of the stress work gives me. I have worked more and more lately, but always being in addition to the other staff, but this weekend I've really had to help out. Didn't even have the time to redress the two wounds I was supposed to. Everyone gets exhausted after a work day like that, but for me the stress leads to more depressed thoughts. This weekend I have noticed myself thinking a lot about the past couple of years, about my hospital stays, about my suicide attempt. Seems like that's a sign of me being too exhausted. But before, that used to happen if I worked more than like 3 hours, even if I controlled my own time. Now I can do a lot more, but I certainly am not far from my breaking point, I can see it. So. Back to vacation.


Yep! sounds like you have done enough work for now! try to chill for a bit and concentrate on getting better, not work.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Earth calling @*WillComp* come in @*WillComp*
> 
> We haven't seen you around for a bit mate. hope everything is ok? let us know dude in pm or here so we don't worry.


Still alive and kicking. My hypotension and narcolepsy are worse than ever. I can't remember all the times I've dropped my phone in the middle of a post from falling asleep. I'm still not wide awake now so I'll keep it short.

I keep fainting too. I had to wake up super early this morning, and as I was getting ready to walk out the door and zipping up my backpack, I once again got really dizzy. Tried to sit down on the floor quickly and the next thing I knew I collapsed and hit my chin on the side of a wooden chair, making a loud crash. My brother who had been sleeping ran in from the other room freaked out, said it was one of the loudest crashes he's heard, and said my face was bleeding all over. Now I have a deep cut on my chin and may need stitches.

If these 2 side effects pass soon, I'll be elated. But if this continues, I don't know how long I can take this.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Still alive and kicking. My hypotension and narcolepsy are worse than ever. I can't remember all the times I've dropped my phone in the middle of a post from falling asleep. I'm still not wide awake now so I'll keep it short.
> 
> I keep fainting too. I had to wake up super early this morning, and as I was getting ready to walk out the door and zipping up my backpack, I once again got really dizzy. Tried to sit down on the floor quickly and the next thing I knew I collapsed and hit my chin on the side of a wooden chair, making a loud crash. My brother who had been sleeping ran in from the other room freaked out, said it was one of the loudest crashes he's heard, and said my face was bleeding all over. Now I have a deep cut on my chin and may need stitches.
> 
> If these 2 side effects pass soon, I'll be elated. But if this continues, I don't know how long I can take this.


Sorry to hear your struggling so bad with the sides. Can you drop down to a lower dose for a while?

I've been at 60 mg for just over four months now. The hypotension is not bothering me anymore. I was really struggling as well for a while, falling over, a couple of times ending up bruised and scratched. The fatigue and need for sleep has also gotten better. It took maybe 3 months for it to become bearable, but there's hope. The sides on this drug are strong and long lasting, but for me they have eased up a great deal now. I got less lactic acid too.

Make sure you do something about that cut! Also, if you fall down a lot, try moving some furniture and things around so that you are less likely to fall on sharp edges and stuff if you faint again.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Still alive and kicking. My hypotension and narcolepsy are worse than ever. I can't remember all the times I've dropped my phone in the middle of a post from falling asleep. I'm still not wide awake now so I'll keep it short.
> 
> I keep fainting too. I had to wake up super early this morning, and as I was getting ready to walk out the door and zipping up my backpack, I once again got really dizzy. Tried to sit down on the floor quickly and the next thing I knew I collapsed and hit my chin on the side of a wooden chair, making a loud crash. My brother who had been sleeping ran in from the other room freaked out, said it was one of the loudest crashes he's heard, and said my face was bleeding all over. Now I have a deep cut on my chin and may need stitches.
> 
> If these 2 side effects pass soon, I'll be elated. But if this continues, I don't know how long I can take this.


Damn mate I think your gunna have to drop back down again. maybe go back to 60, 6 days a week, and drop a 75 just before bed or something if it doesn't affect your sleep. It's really weird because my first time I was super ill on every dose but the 75 mg. It could be 75 is too much for you.

Your going to have to try this mate seriously. for a few days bite them in half and put under your tongue, many say you don't get side effects from taking it this way and that's why i don't really have any. I have hypotension moments but very very mild compared to the first time.

Please try it under your tongue for a few days, it's nasty as fkuck but i would say having that taste for 30 mins is surely a lot better than fainting and collapsing all the time. You don't even have to do it that way every day, for example i just swallowed my morning dose today but will likely put the 2 i take at lunch time under my tongue. 
It's worth a shot.

Get that chin sorted before it gets infected!
Hope your feeling better today, weird because I never fainted once through my worst period. I was lucky not to be working through that time, I was signed off from work because I was far too ill. Is it possible for you to pull a sicky and give your body a rest. Work and 75 mg Nardil is clearly too much for your body to take right now, sounds like you need loads of rest.

Have you tried things like putting salt on every meal and drinking a **** load of water? also i'm still certain the narcolepsy thing is related to food somehow. When I eat ice cream it hits me bad, when I don't I am fine.
arg this is such an awkward drug because the first time though i didn't eat ice cream and was sick as ****.

Try sucking em and if it doesnt ease the side effects drop back to 60 mg and just add 75 in now and again to get your body used to it, maybe 75 every 3 days? 4 days? then move it closer by a day until you don't really feel a difference n dose side effects wise.

It may be worth googling everything you eat quite often and checking the tyramine content in it.
.
*Foods that can cause a severe reaction*
 Cheese: hard, soft, mature, processed or cheese spreads
 Foods containing cheese: e.g. pizzas, lasagne, pies, quiche
 Sour cream
 Meat or yeast extracts or meals containing these extracts, e.g.
Bovril®, Oxo®, Marmite®, gravy granules, stock cubes,
brewer's yeast
 Savoury meal replacements: Complan®/Build-Up® soups
 Tinned or packet soups
 Tinned meats or ready made dishes
 Smoked or pickled fish, e.g. herrings, caviar, salted dried fish
 Game, fermented sausage, pâtés, e.g. salami/pepperoni,
black pudding
 Broad bean pods, banana skins
 Flavoured crisps
 Any food that has been kept for a long time or has
gone mouldy.
.
*Foods which may on rare occasions cause a reaction*
 Overripe avocados or broad beans, canned or overripe figs
 Soya sauce, fermented soya products, Worcestershire sauce
 Shrimp paste
 Too much caffeine, e.g. coffee, tea or cola unless
decaffeinated
 Too much chocolate
 Ginseng
 Plums, raspberries (in large amounts)
 Spinach (in large amounts) or sauerkraut
 Sausages
 Vinegar
 Artificial sweeteners.
.
*Alcohol*
Due to the yeast involved in the brewing process avoid alcohol,
low alcohol and non-alcohol beers, lagers and wines. Drinks that
may particularly be a problem include chianti, homemade beers
and wines, real ales and red wine.
.
*Specific foods with high tyramine content include:*
strong or aged cheeses like cheddar, blue cheese, or gorgonzola
cured or smoked meats or fish, such as sausage or salami
beers on tap or home-brewed
some overripe fruits
soy products like miso soup, bean curd, or tofu
certain beans, such as fava or broad beans
some sauces or gravies like soy sauce, teriyaki sauce, or bouillon-based sauces
pickled products like sauerkraut
sourdough breads.
.
http://www.healthline.com/health/tyramine-free-diets#foods4
.
http://www.sussexpartnership.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/documents/maoi_leaflet_-_june_2017_0.pdf


----------



## V1bzz

@Tandorini - I'm just taking one magnesium in the morning for sure. I forget most of the other doses but will take one if i remember after dinner or whatever. i'm not much help am I? haha


----------



## V1bzz

Christ I took my own advice today, because I know I have hard work starting next Monday, thought I would lie down and rest even though I didn't feel tired today and had a decent amount of sleep last night (7-8hrs) .

I would say literally a minute or less after lying down I was *gone* man, I have only just woke up and I had to really really force myself to get out of bed. I was properly in it too as in under the covers so at some point went from nap time to bed time lol.

I really could have just stayed in bed sleeping all the way through until tomorrow! I feel like **** when I wake up from a sleep, anyone else? Right now I kinda feel like I did when my blood pressure was really low, I hope that's not happening again. I have felt chilly at times but nothing like before.

Do any of you guys get this on Nardil? the ability to just instantly fall asleep when ever you choose?

I have a doctors appointment tomorrow and i'm going to make it clear there can be no fkcing about this time when I ask and that I need something to stop me falling asleep when i relax, something that gives me abit of energy.
It only needs to be for 5 weeks as I have classroom training starting next Monday.

I am really worried that if i find a comfortable position in a chair that I am going to just fall asleep. This is not a good way to start a new business!!

I'm going to be fluckin angry if I walk away from there tomorrow with nothing again. There is alot more at stake now!


----------



## V1bzz

I can't believe this. Stood up from making this post and nearly fainted...my hypotension is back!!!

Great flipping timing. Everything was going to perfect for me damn it :crying:

Looks like i'm coming on the ride with you @WillComp

Shall i tell you what, i guarantee you it was because i swallowed them today!!

I will suck them tomorrow Will and if I don't get any hypo there is your solution.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I can't believe this. Stood up from making this post and nearly fainted...my hypotension is back!!!
> 
> Great flipping timing. Everything was going to perfect for me damn it :crying:
> 
> Looks like i'm coming on the ride with you @WillComp
> 
> Shall i tell you what, i guarantee you it was because i swallowed them today!!
> 
> I will suck them tomorrow Will and if I don't get any hypo there is your solution.


V1, I figured it out!

When you sleep longer than usual, your bp goes way down, and when you finally get up, you experience severe hypotension, to the point you get white-out/ringing ears episode and feel like fainting. If it's really bad, your legs will shake and you better sit down before you collapse.

I realized this when I thought back to my episodes. Always on the weekend after sleeping in. During my work week (Mon thru Fri), I seldom get dizzy. Once in a while I'll get hypotension but it's fairly mild.

This past weekend, I slept in, got up, felt dizzy, had my breakfast, and guess what? I got serious narcolepsy. So I went back to bed. This action causes more narcolepsy and severe hypotension.

The key: Go to bed later and get no more than 7 hrs of sleep. On nardil, you can't get more than that. So what about daytime narcolepsy? Find something engaging and don't ever close your eyes.

For me, I'm gonna have to make detailed plans for the evenings, and especially the weekends, in order to do something engaging (play pool, lift weights, go out to a sports store, go hiking, be creative), all for the sole purpose of not getting in relaxed state. Relaxed state = deadly. Long sleeps/naps cause severe hypotension and more narcolepsy for the next 1 or 2 days. Try your hardest to not get in a relaxed state until bedtime. And I'm certain these sides wi'll become manageable!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> V1, I figured it out!
> 
> When you sleep longer than usual, your bp goes way down, and when you finally get up, you experience severe hypotension, to the point you get white-out/ringing ears episode and feel like fainting. If it's really bad, your legs will shake and you better sit down before you collapse.
> 
> I realized this when I thought back to my episodes. Always on the weekend after sleeping in. During my work week (Mon thru Fri), I seldom get dizzy. Once in a while I'll get hypotension but it's fairly mild.
> 
> This past weekend, I slept in, got up, felt dizzy, had my breakfast, and guess what? I got serious narcolepsy. So I went back to bed. This action causes more narcolepsy and severe hypotension.
> 
> The key: Go to bed later and get no more than 7 hrs of sleep. On nardil, you can't get more than that. So what about daytime narcolepsy? Find something engaging and don't ever close your eyes.
> 
> For me, I'm gonna have to make detailed plans for the evenings, and especially the weekends, in order to do something engaging (play pool, lift weights, go out to a sports store, go hiking, be creative), all for the sole purpose of not getting in relaxed state. Relaxed state = deadly. Long sleeps/naps cause severe hypotension and more narcolepsy for the next 1 or 2 days. Try your hardest to not get in a relaxed state until bedtime. And I'm certain these sides wi'll become manageable!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you may be right about the sleep thing, i had a good 8hrs last night and then about 6 hrs in the afternoon LOL, thats when i got the hypo shortly after. I usually get between 6-8hrs a night at the moment, leaning more towards 6 but i get a couple of hrs nap in the afternoon.

I think then the combination of far too much sleep than im used to and swallowing my meds was the perfect combination for the hypo.

I'm exactly the same with having to keep my attention engaged, this is why i'm worried about the 5 weeks of class training i have coming up!
I have to be honest though, my narcolepsy is pretty good at the moment, it hits me real bad when i eat things i love like cookies, icecreams, drinking pepsi etc.

I've just noticed tonight (because im being a good boy junk food wise) the TEA..yes a cup of tea makes my stomach really blow out. This really sucks finding out, i'm british ffs. first thing i have in the morning is a cup of tea. wtf am i supposed to do now??? arg :crying:

Mate please do a day taking nardil sublingually, if even just for me. I'm curious to know how you feel that day. I'm betting you feel much better overall.
You may get a mild tiredness going on while they dissolve but i think thats because of the initial dopamine release. swallowing it usually hits about after an hour but sublingually you get it while they are dissolving, prob 5-10 mins after you start.

mate if it starts to sting under your tongue just put it in a cheek behind the teeth. it does burn until your mouth gets used to it, they seem to dissolve super quick for me now with no burning, under the tongue.
The taste is still gross so have a drink near by just to put something nice into your mouth every once in a while. @Tandorini, I really want you to try it too

come on guys, play fair. be the guinee pig for me just for this one thing :grin2::smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp - what do you have for breakfast, if its cereal then there possibly lies your problem. Try toast for a few days and see if the narcolepsy sh1t improves. I stay away from milk, except in my tea.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> @WillComp - what do you have for breakfast, if its cereal then there possibly lies your problem. Try toast for a few days and see if the narcolepsy sh1t improves. I stay away from milk, except in my tea.


Yeah I have cereal every day for breakfast. But I use that almond milk and don't drink it from the bowl after I finish the cereal. I have been eating ice cream lately at family get togethers and come to think of it, the next day I've been extra dizzy. Hmmm. I'm gonna stay away from ice cream and all types of milk to see if I notice a difference.

This narcolepsy sh1t could be danderous! Imagine getting it while behind the wheel, not being able to keep your eyes open and nodding off while you keep swerving over into incoming lanes. Terrifying to think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Mate please do a day taking nardil sublingually, if even just for me. I'm curious to know how you feel that day. I'm betting you feel much better overall.
> 
> You may get a mild tiredness going on while they dissolve but i think thats because of the initial dopamine release. swallowing it usually hits about after an hour but sublingually you get it while they are dissolving, prob 5-10 mins after you start.
> 
> mate if it starts to sting under your tongue just put it in a cheek behind the teeth. it does burn until your mouth gets used to it, they seem to dissolve super quick for me now with no burning, under the tongue.
> 
> The taste is still gross so have a drink near by just to put something nice into your mouth every once in a while.
> 
> @*http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/member.php?u=860561]Tandorini*
> , I really want you to try it too.
> 
> come on guys, play fair. be the guinee pig for me just for this one thing


Sure, I'll try this!

I can usually put up with nasty tasting sh1t, so it shouldn't be a problem for me.

Most days this week will likely be stressful for me, except for Wednesday, so I'll experiment on that day. I'll let you all know what it felt like late Wednesday night.

I'm curious to sense a difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I think you may be right about the sleep thing, i had a good 8hrs last night and then about 6 hrs in the afternoon LOL, thats when i got the hypo shortly after. I usually get between 6-8hrs a night at the moment, leaning more towards 6 but i get a couple of hrs nap in the afternoon.
> 
> I think then the combination of far too much sleep than im used to and swallowing my meds was the perfect combination for the hypo.
> 
> I'm exactly the same with having to keep my attention engaged, this is why i'm worried about the 5 weeks of class training i have coming up!
> I have to be honest though, my narcolepsy is pretty good at the moment, it hits me real bad when i eat things i love like cookies, icecreams, drinking pepsi etc.
> 
> I've just noticed tonight (because im being a good boy junk food wise) the TEA..yes a cup of tea makes my stomach really blow out. This really sucks finding out, i'm british ffs. first thing i have in the morning is a cup of tea. wtf am i supposed to do now??? arg :crying:
> 
> Mate please do a day taking nardil sublingually, if even just for me. I'm curious to know how you feel that day. I'm betting you feel much better overall.
> You may get a mild tiredness going on while they dissolve but i think thats because of the initial dopamine release. swallowing it usually hits about after an hour but sublingually you get it while they are dissolving, prob 5-10 mins after you start.
> 
> mate if it starts to sting under your tongue just put it in a cheek behind the teeth. it does burn until your mouth gets used to it, they seem to dissolve super quick for me now with no burning, under the tongue.
> The taste is still gross so have a drink near by just to put something nice into your mouth every once in a while.
> @*Tandorini* , I really want you to try it too
> 
> come on guys, play fair. be the guinee pig for me just for this one thing :grin2::smile2:


You should see me spasm up and wince if I don't swallow them at first try, I have no idea how I would ever be able to keep them in my mouth until they dissolve, haha. Gonna have to take time to psych myself up for it. Putting it in your cheek should be the same as chewing and swallowing, while doing it sublingually might be the one thing that would make a difference. Do you take the whole dose in one go in the morning? I take 30 in the morning and 30 before bedtime, with the Seroquel. And now I'm on the iron supplement as well, which I try taking an hour before breakfast, as that's really my only chance of remembering to take them without meals. And then I take the potassium and magnesium at night because if I take them with the iron supplement there will be a chemical reaction between them, making them all inactive or something like that. There's so much stuff to remember, I really try doing stuff as simple as I can. Going away for a week again on Thursday, so any new projects with the tablets will have to wait until after that. Can't afford to get unexpected reactions while on holiday.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Sure, I'll try this!
> 
> I can usually put up with nasty tasting sh1t, so it shouldn't be a problem for me.
> 
> Most days this week will likely be stressful for me, except for Wednesday, so I'll experiment on that day. I'll let you all know what it felt like late Wednesday night.
> 
> I'm curious to sense a difference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe do it on the stressful days, it gets into your system way faster with no flucking about in the gut or whatever :smile2:

went to the docs, it's tomorrow ffs, well at least i'm a day early this time instead of a day late. Nardil really fcuks with my memory!


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> You should see me spasm up and wince if I don't swallow them at first try, I have no idea how I would ever be able to keep them in my mouth until they dissolve, haha. Gonna have to take time to psych myself up for it. Putting it in your cheek should be the same as chewing and swallowing, while doing it sublingually might be the one thing that would make a difference. Do you take the whole dose in one go in the morning? I take 30 in the morning and 30 before bedtime, with the Seroquel. And now I'm on the iron supplement as well, which I try taking an hour before breakfast, as that's really my only chance of remembering to take them without meals. And then I take the potassium and magnesium at night because if I take them with the iron supplement there will be a chemical reaction between them, making them all inactive or something like that. There's so much stuff to remember, I really try doing stuff as simple as I can. Going away for a week again on Thursday, so any new projects with the tablets will have to wait until after that. Can't afford to get unexpected reactions while on holiday.


So do it *TODAY* with your next dose :grin2: where you off to Thursday?

I used to do one at a time, full tablet under the tongue. I now take 3 all bitten in half under the tongue so they dissolve quicker :smile2:

It's not going to mess you up hehe, you just get a better quicker dose. The only difference is the dopamine hit, you get it while its dissolving and not in one go like when swallowed.
So if the trigger for the hypo and other things is that dopamine hit (which it used to be for my hypo) you shouldn't get that. Give it a go and tell me how much better your side effects were tomorrow :clap:b


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Yeah I have cereal every day for breakfast. But I use that almond milk and don't drink it from the bowl after I finish the cereal. I have been eating ice cream lately at family get togethers and come to think of it, the next day I've been extra dizzy. Hmmm. I'm gonna stay away from ice cream and all types of milk to see if I notice a difference.
> 
> This narcolepsy sh1t could be danderous! Imagine getting it while behind the wheel, not being able to keep your eyes open and nodding off while you keep swerving over into incoming lanes. Terrifying to think about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, not a nice thought!

I'm sure in the food restrictions it has yoghurts...that's why i figured to stay away from milk products.
I haven't had cereal for yrs and I love it. Used to always have a bowl of summin before bed. It took me a while but I finally figured it was the reason to why I was waking up every night not being able to breath, with a really sore chest. so, as you know i like to do, I did a little bit of research lol....what happens is milk makes your body produce more mucus and when laying down it builds up in your chest.

So I stopped and that was that problem solved :smile2:

I'm defo sure dairy products cause the narc, if i have 1 ice cream i just feel a tiny bit of tiredness, if i eat 3, about an hour later the battle to stay awake begins!
I also get it if I eat cookies :crying: I fluckin love cookies!!!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> So do it *TODAY* with your next dose :grin2: where you off to Thursday?
> 
> I used to do one at a time, full tablet under the tongue. I now take 3 all bitten in half under the tongue so they dissolve quicker :smile2:
> 
> It's not going to mess you up hehe, you just get a better quicker dose. The only difference is the dopamine hit, you get it while its dissolving and not in one go like when swallowed.
> So if the trigger for the hypo and other things is that dopamine hit (which it used to be for my hypo) you shouldn't get that. Give it a go and tell me how much better your side effects were tomorrow :clap:b


Yeah, what I meant, is do you take Nardil just once a day, or do you take it in two doses? I take them morning and night.

I just doubled the magnesiumdose, with the multivitamin I am now at 700 mg of magnesium a day, I'll try that for about 10 days.

Not off to do much exciting stuff - just visiting my parents and sister who live 500 km south of me. Will probably meet up with some old friends and maybe some more relatives, I dunno. I usually just show up, and they've got stuff planned  Last time I was there I had to struggle to keep the whole fatigue and lactic acid thingy from them, but I really think I am doing better now. I snook in some power naps here and there last time, I remember. I think I might not have to this time around. Last time I was there was in May.

Nardil gives me hypertension in the morning, it used to get me up to 175/115 there for a while, last only about 15-20 minutes, but still. It's better now, but I still feel a little sceptical about absorbing it any quicker than I already do.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Yeah, what I meant, is do you take Nardil just once a day, or do you take it in two doses? I take them morning and night.
> 
> I just doubled the magnesiumdose, with the multivitamin I am now at 700 mg of magnesium a day, I'll try that for about 10 days.
> 
> Not off to do much exciting stuff - just visiting my parents and sister who live 500 km south of me. Will probably meet up with some old friends and maybe some more relatives, I dunno. I usually just show up, and they've got stuff planned  Last time I was there I had to struggle to keep the whole fatigue and lactic acid thingy from them, but I really think I am doing better now. I snook in some power naps here and there last time, I remember. I think I might not have to this time around. Last time I was there was in May.
> 
> Nardil gives me hypertension in the morning, it used to get me up to 175/115 there for a while, last only about 15-20 minutes, but still. It's better now, but I still feel a little sceptical about absorbing it any quicker than I already do.


Oh you now get hypertension!
do you get it when your nardil kicks in?
brainy people have said that you shouldn't get side effects taking something sublingually. my hypo went cos i started sucking them again, im just left with the usual **** of tiredness in my legs and lower back and this water retention which is really bad again at the moment. not much pain though since i started the magnesium.

Waiting for the Pnurse to ring me back to tell me if he managed to get me something to help me through the training starting monday. I pretty much know it will be the same old sh1t, so sick of it again/

They came up with a plan that I see the Pnurse, he speaks to a Pdoc and i'm able to get the meds i need that way.
Twice i've seen him now and he keeps asking the normal doctor who i know are going to say no to everything i suggest.
If i get failed again today i will be making one of my phone calls. I'm just totally fckuced off with all this nonsense now.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Oh you now get hypertension!
> do you get it when your nardil kicks in?
> brainy people have said that you shouldn't get side effects taking something sublingually. my hypo went cos i started sucking them again, im just left with the usual **** of tiredness in my legs and lower back and this water retention which is really bad again at the moment. not much pain though since i started the magnesium.
> 
> Waiting for the Pnurse to ring me back to tell me if he managed to get me something to help me through the training starting monday. I pretty much know it will be the same old sh1t, so sick of it again/
> 
> They came up with a plan that I see the Pnurse, he speaks to a Pdoc and i'm able to get the meds i need that way.
> Twice i've seen him now and he keeps asking the normal doctor who i know are going to say no to everything i suggest.
> If i get failed again today i will be making one of my phone calls. I'm just totally fckuced off with all this nonsense now.


No, the hypertension was worst in the beginning. When I was at 60 mg, and took the morning dose of 30 before breakfast, my BP would rise quickly, and I would feel my heart beating really hard, though slow. Once I got a monitor I could see that I every morning got up to between 160-175/110-115, while my pulse went down to it's low fourties. (My regular resting heart rate is in it's low 50's, so it's not that big of a difference). Anyway, I don't wanna go back to that.

Taking stuff sublingually can give you side effects, but whether it gives less sides with Nardil, I dunno. I just don't like the idea of having to take the tablets the "wrong" way, I mean, they should work the way they are supposed to. I do understand what you mean though, so I might try it sometimes just to see what happens.

It sounds really frustrating, your (lack of) communication with the docs. Always having to speak to someone who then has to speak to other people only delays things and leads to misunderstandings too.

I told you guys ages ago I was to get a new psychiatrists. Still haven't met him. I got a letter a while back now, he has made an appointment for me on the 21st of August, so I'll finally meet him. I don't really need anything special right now, but I really wanna know who he is, if I get along with him, if he know his stuff. He'll be the one in charge of my Nardil treatment now (probably already has been for a while), so I need to know if he is any good.

The psychologist will be back from vacation soon too, my next appointment is August 14th. Seems like that's when we'll really start the treatment. I have only been with him since June or so, and appearently all he has done so far has been exploring my reaction patterns and defense mechanisms, to see if I'm ready for the treatment he's got planned. I was kind of disappointed when he told me, as I thought we had already started, with the sessions being really tough and all. But I guess they're not supposed to be much harder, as what he's done is testing my limits, and now will try keeping within those limits. Dunno if that made any sense to anyone else than me. But at least that's what I am trying to tell myself. I need therapy, I just don't wanna be a total wreck, getting worse again, for several months before I get any better. Then again, I know that leaving it all alone ain't doing any good, as that's what I've been doing for years.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'm just totally fckuced off with all this nonsense now.


Hello Mate, so you got this new business venture up and running ? If so, put some readies asids and get referred to a private shrink.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hello Mate, so you got this new business venture up and running ? If so, put some readies asids and get referred to a private shrink.


Hey mate, I start next Monday, 5 weeks of classroom training, it's going to be a real struggle to stay awake.
Hopefully I will be surprised when he calls me. How many times have I said that?

Private shrink sounds expensive. any ideas how much per session or however it's done?

can you believe i'm still trying to sort this sh1t out? feel like i'm going round in circles with them.

Doc aint gunna give me sh1t, have never helped, can't see it being any different this time!

@Tandorini does the psychologist fckuk with your emotions then in each session? christ id'e end up stabbing him in the eye with his pen.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Private shrink sounds expensive. any ideas how much per session or however it's done?


Well good luck next week for the training.

My one was £180 for first appointment I think and then generally £120 - pretty sure I saw at least one for only £80.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @*Tandorini* does the psychologist fckuk with your emotions then in each session? christ id'e end up stabbing him in the eye with his pen.


Yeah, it's kind of like exposure therapy, only with feelings, not phobias. Try to identify my feelings, which I've been pretty much neglecting in the time I've been depressed. Have tried not feeling anything, to avoid being so sad and feel hopeless. But appearantly, if you can't feel sad, you can't feel happy either. So that's the goal. Getting the feelings out again. Don't know much about it yet, the therapy form. But he said he'd video tape everything. Sounds a bit scary.

And yeah, I probably will feel like stabbing him. And then he'll make me word it out, letting him know if I am angry, or sad, or scared, or whatever. When I just wanna leave, or better yet, have him leave. I'm curious how the therapy will go. I hope I am well enough to be able to handle it now. So that I can actually stick to therapy, not having it break me down and get more depressed again. He was kind of worried about that as well, that's what we talked about last time. I tried convincing him I am well enough. I really can't wait any longer now. Feels like my life is on hold.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Well good luck next week for the training.
> 
> My one was £180 for first appointment I think and then generally £120 - pretty sure I saw at least one for only £80.


wow and I thought I was going to be on good money.

Oh the doctor was awesome today, spoke to the pdoc, he said i'll speak to the doctor and sort something out and ring you back. Get the call around 5pm and man the doc must have went all out, got the book and studied hard on the best thing to give me to help. you know what they suggested.... *PRO PLUS!!!*



That's it now, formal complaint being done tomorrow, if not only for the fact they advised me to take something that has bad interactions with nardil (lots of caffeine) and could potentially kill me but for all the months I have been trying to get help for one thing or another.

I was fuming earlier. The whole point of me having to get a check up and make sure my legs were side effects and ot something more serious (i was told) was to satisfy the Pdoc so he/she could start treating me through the Pnurse. I feel like i'm being lied to know and they are making me run in circles. First thing that pnurse done was said i'll speak to the doctor and i was like, whats the point of that, speak to the Pdoc, he said something along the lies of oh no im not contacting them for that...or something and i'm left dumbfounded yet again at the complete incompetence of the people i have to deal with at that surgery. the whole point of me seeing that useless cnut was he was supposed to be my middle man to the Pdoc. now it seems that was all bullsh1t.

I've already set my plans for tomorrow. print out official complaint form, fill it out and drop it off where it needs to go, fkcuk posting it!

I thought i had finally got this sh1t sorted. They are getting close to pushing me too far!


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Yeah, it's kind of like exposure therapy, only with feelings, not phobias. Try to identify my feelings, which I've been pretty much neglecting in the time I've been depressed. Have tried not feeling anything, to avoid being so sad and feel hopeless. But appearantly, if you can't feel sad, you can't feel happy either. So that's the goal. Getting the feelings out again. Don't know much about it yet, the therapy form. But he said he'd video tape everything. Sounds a bit scary.
> 
> And yeah, I probably will feel like stabbing him. And then he'll make me word it out, letting him know if I am angry, or sad, or scared, or whatever. When I just wanna leave, or better yet, have him leave. I'm curious how the therapy will go. I hope I am well enough to be able to handle it now. So that I can actually stick to therapy, not having it break me down and get more depressed again. He was kind of worried about that as well, that's what we talked about last time. I tried convincing him I am well enough. I really can't wait any longer now. Feels like my life is on hold.


 hmm maybe it is too soon but i guess you are the judge of that. what's waiting another month. man you are more impatient than me! haha. that realy is saying summin you know :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> wow and I thought I was going to be on good money.


Yeah I didnt pay mate, I have mandatory medical insurance at work which is cool because I dont have to slum it with the, lets say, more common people :grin2:

**** news re the docs today, you got another surgery in the area you can transfer too?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah I didnt pay mate, I have mandatory medical insurance at work which is cool because I dont have to slum it with the, lets say, more common people :grin2:
> 
> **** news re the docs today, you got another surgery in the area you can transfer too?


yeah but its part of the surgery im with. mate i will go in tomorrow and demand for a call back and get my damn referral then i will write out the complaint form - http://www.rosebankhealth.nhs.uk/website/L84059/files/Complaints Form.pdf

That box on the right is nowhere near big enough, i'll have to attach a couple of sheets of A4 to it. I **** you not!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> hmm maybe it is too soon but i guess you are the judge of that. what's waiting another month. man you are more impatient than me! haha. that realy is saying summin you know :grin2:


A month more wouldn't make much of a difference. I haven't really been working with a therapist since January. I was admitted to the hospital in February, and after that it's all been about Nardil, and then changing therapists. The new one said that ideally I should be even more stable, like a year, but that they understand that people can't really wait that long.

Anyway, this is the therapist I've been referred to, and he's got time for me now. If I ask to postpone, then maybe something will happen and he won't be able to treat me anyway, and I have to go to someone else. This guy was chosen by my old therapist, because she thought he would be best for me. So I really wanna try. And if it is too hard, then maybe we could take a break.

I struggle trying to find out what to use my energy on. If I should try working more, trying to just live life and see if I can find more happiness, or if I should go all in on therapy. But I think that going to therapy is really the only thing that can give longlasting effect, and hopefully the other things will go better. I mean, I've been trying to step up the work hours for ages, but haven't been able to. Once I had effect of Nardil however, I could work more. I really shouldn't focus on the symptoms, it's better to go to the core of it all.

It's like when I get really, really depressed, I also get some anxiety. But there's no need to try treating the anxiety (except for symptomatic relief with medication or other support), as it just disappears once the depression is better.

So yeah, starting therapy now. If it's too hard, I'll have to talk to him, and hopefully I will be able to admit that it's too hard before it's too late and I get very ill again.

They're building a new psychiatric hospital building atm, where all the four "emergency wards" are to move into. Everytime I walk past the building site I keep telling myself I will never sleep in there. I think it's opening in either September or November, so I certainly can't afford to get ill now. Sure, the old place was really worn out, and the new hospital must be great, but still. I'm never going in there.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey @Tandorini sorry haven't replied sooner, I've just been damn busy with the new website and sorting things out for the new job start this coming Monday. Plus I have been a bit p1ssed off with this whole doctor fiasco.
Are you on holiday now? just chill and enjoy your time, don't think about the hospital, you will never be in there again 
If you don't think you are ready don't do that therapy, sounds like it would be a challenge for even people not suffering from mental illness!

Hope all is ok with everyone else here too 

p.s weighed myself today and am now 14 stone 3 pounds. really not happy!
Need to lose a stone asap!!


----------



## WillComp

I'm gaining weight fast too. I've always been underweight and now I'm on the verge of having my first pot belly.. so I gotta be careful. Sweets and desserts give me a major high like never before.

Overall I feel really good on 75. Haven't had a bad hypotension episode since I collapsed last Sunday. I think I'm just being more careful now, getting up slower, walking slower and not rushing myself. It's been a good week.

This week I feel like myself, same emotions, same thought process, same everything as pre-nardil.. except no more panic and anxiety attacks. It just feels like my overactive defective amygdala was taken out during surgery and I was given a normal one. LOL. Now I'm in recovery waiting for the side effects to pass. Life is so much easier now and I'm trying to be as grateful as I can be and not take any of these days for granted.

Hope you all are doing well too. I was thinking the other day I feel blessed to be a part of this forum and thread, haha.. there's a handful of us going thru the same thing, experiencing the wild ride on nardil together. No one else knows what we're going through. It would be cool if we could all meet one day. I think that would be fun! It would certainly be memorable!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I'm gaining weight fast too. I've always been underweight and now I'm on the verge of having my first pot belly.. so I gotta be careful. Sweets and desserts give me a major high like never before.
> 
> Overall I feel really good on 75. Haven't had a bad hypotension episode since I collapsed last Sunday. I think I'm just being more careful now, getting up slower, walking slower and not rushing myself. It's been a good week.
> 
> This week I feel like myself, same emotions, same thought process, same everything as pre-nardil.. except no more panic and anxiety attacks. It just feels like my overactive defective amygdala was taken out during surgery and I was given a normal one. LOL. Now I'm in recovery waiting for the side effects to pass. Life is so much easier now and I'm trying to be as grateful as I can be and not take any of these days for granted.
> 
> Hope you all are doing well too. I was thinking the other day I feel blessed to be a part of this forum and thread, haha.. there's a handful of us going thru the same thing, experiencing the wild ride on nardil together. No one else knows what we're going through. It would be cool if we could all meet one day. I think that would be fun! It would certainly be memorable!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We'll be the group of fat people in McDonald sitting in the corner talking about the good ole days when we were skinny haha.

sounds like your feeling damn good at the moment, happy for you! :nerd: Not feeling too bad myself really, I feel like my thought processes may be calming down some what. Thats awesome that you fee like your old self, i had that for 3 days so can imagine how great life feels again. hope I will be joining you soon! :grin2:

My weight was always a high anxiety/depression thing for me, I hated seeing myself in shop windows and stuff. Before I hit my first med i was holding at around 10 stone, trying all kinds of different ways to put on weight.
The first and second med i tried, can't remember what they were, think maybe citalopram and some other thing started to help me gain weight nicely, i slowly went up to about 11 stone and was so happy. I was on one thing or another for a while, while i tried out every drug possible, then i got onto mirtazapine and put a stone/stone and half on really damn quick. I forced myself to go on holiday (which sucked really) and remember my belly swelling out and getting trapped gas pills a few days before holiday. All the new clothes i had bought no longer fit me haha. 
I held at about 12 stone while i tried 3 or 4 other meds. a decent weight. Man then i got on nardil and have put on 2 stone in 5 months or whatever it is and just to top it off have the crazy pot belly too.
I looked in the mirror just a few days ago and thought, omg i got fat. Really not happy being this heavy, it's prob why my knees and ankles are sore, from the rapid weight change?

I need to get it off some how, started doing a few exercises but its a struggle man, when i do press ups i now feel like i got a sumo wrestler on my back ffs haha.

Never ever thought I would get fat, ever ever ever!!

Hopefully soon i will hit that place again where i felt like my old self, i will drop the weight so quickly just dancing round my bedroom like i was, ah good times :laugh:

P.s. did you try it sublingually at all?


----------



## SFC01

Hey Fatboys @V1bzz and @WillComp, hopefully the weight gain will stop for you both - I dont get any hunger from nardil and can easily stick to 2000-2500 cals a day.

Just decide to stop eating the most fattening thing in your diet for a month, and then the next month, choose something else - no need for crash diets, just make some small and gradual changes to your dieting and exercising and it will soon just become a lifestyle change. Even if you only exercise for 10 mins a day to start with, you will soon build that up after a few months to something more beneficial. Try not to eat after 6PM in the evening and wait for brekky until 9ish.

If you just try and live through any hunger for a couple of days (drink water, have a coffee and an apple if you really need food) you body soon starts to adapt to that and the appetite should lower. I was huge after being on lyrica, quetiapine and imipramine but I did the above and lost 3 stone in a year whislt on nardil without turning into some health freak


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hey Fatboys @V1bzz and @WillComp, hopefully the weight gain will stop for you both - I dont get any hunger from nardil and can easily stick to 2000-2500 cals a day.
> 
> Just decide to stop eating the most fattening thing in your diet for a month, and then the next month, choose something else - no need for crash diets, just make some small and gradual changes to your dieting and exercising and it will soon just become a lifestyle change. Even if you only exercise for 10 mins a day to start with, you will soon build that up after a few months to something more beneficial. Try not to eat after 6PM in the evening and wait for brekky until 9ish.
> 
> If you just try and live through any hunger for a couple of days (drink water, have a coffee and an apple if you really need food) you body soon starts to adapt to that and the appetite should lower. I was huge after being on lyrica, quetiapine and imipramine but I did the above and lost 3 stone in a year whislt on nardil without turning into some health freak


Thanks for the advice!
Yeah im replacing stuff with bananas at the moment :grin2: wonder if i'll look like a monkey soon :wink2:


----------



## Tandorini

Have any of you ever had a hypertensive reaction eating tacos? This is my second time shortly after eating them that i feel a strong heart beat and my pulse goes down. After a large meal my pulse is usually around 65-70, but today it went down to 50. Didn't get a headache, so it wasn't severe, but certainly a reaction. 

I had
Minced meat with taco spices
Cheese (gouda and one slightly more matured)
Taco sauce, mild
Lettuce, corn, cucumber, red onion
Sour cream
Tortilla wrap
Taco shell
Two canned beers

Last time it happened i didn't have beer. 

I have minced meat quite often, also that kind of cheeses. The vegetables too. 

So. Shells, wraps, sauce and taco spice. Those are the only things they i only eat when having tacos. I don't get it. What do you guys reckon?


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Have any of you ever had a hypertensive reaction eating tacos? This is my second time shortly after eating them that i feel a strong heart beat and my pulse goes down. After a large meal my pulse is usually around 65-70, but today it went down to 50. Didn't get a headache, so it wasn't severe, but certainly a reaction.
> 
> I had
> Minced meat with taco spices
> Cheese (gouda and one slightly more matured)
> Taco sauce, mild
> Lettuce, corn, cucumber, red onion
> Sour cream
> Tortilla wrap
> Taco shell
> Two canned beers
> 
> Last time it happened i didn't have beer.
> 
> I have minced meat quite often, also that kind of cheeses. The vegetables too.
> 
> So. Shells, wraps, sauce and taco spice. Those are the only things they i only eat when having tacos. I don't get it. What do you guys reckon?


Throwing a guess I would say it was the sauce. I try to avoid all those types of sauces because they are highly ranked on the interactions list, it's on the severe/fatal reaction list along with gravy 

*FOODS THAT MUST BE COMPLETELY AVOIDED:*

*- *Cheeses: All aged and mature cheeses, since it is impossible to know the tyramine content all cheeses should be avoided. Including but not limited to cheddar, swiss, blue cheese, mozzarella, parmesan, romano, cheese spreads, cheese casseroles or any foods made with cheese. Only Exceptions: Ricotta, cottage cheese, cream cheese and processed cheese slices.(per the ADA)
Note: The American Dietetic Association is the only reference below that has included "processed cheese slices" as permissible.

*- *Yeast, Brewers and Extracts Includes brewers yeast, extracts such as *marmite* :crying:, yeast vitamin supplements, sourdough and fresh homemade yeast leavened breads; yeast found in prepared foods, soups, can foods, frozen foods, should be checked for the addition of yeast abstracts and should be avoided.
Note: Breads that ARE NOT sourdough, fresh homemade yeast leavened breads are permissible.

*- *Meats/Fish All smoked, aged, picked, fermented, or marinated meats must be avoided. Including but not limited to picked fish, Shrimp paste, picked herring, meat extracts, livers, Non-fresh meats, (such as leftovers), Wild game, Dry sausages or prepared, such as salamoni, bologna, pepperoni, frankfurters, bacon, bologna, liverwurst and ham.
Note: Any smoked, picked, fermented, aged meat or spoiled food may contain high levels of tyramine and must be avoided. Caution should be used in restaurants. Any protein food that is improperly stored or mishandled can contain high levels of tyramine, chicken and beef liver, liver pate and game usually contain high levels due to mishandling. Freshness of food is a key issue while taking an MAOI in order to prevent a potential hypertensive crisis. Thus, eat perishable foods within two days after purchase. Protein Extracts Includes liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements

*- *Fruits and Vegetables. Banana Peels (also *overripe bananas**(damn it, does that mean when they are soft?)* must be avoided as the tyramine becomes high as the banana ages) Sauerkraut (since the tyramine contents in sauerkraut differ widely all should be avoided)
Note: All overripe and spoiled fruits should be avoided. Limited Exceptions: Limit intake of 1/2 cup (4oz) of only one per day, providing same is fresh of the following: avocados, bananas, canned figs, raisins, rasberries, red plums.

*- *Beans Includes Broad fava beans, Italian beans, chinese pea pods, beans pastes, fermented bean curds, fermented soya beans, soya sauce, soya bean pastes, Tofu, Miso soup.

*- *Condiments/Seasonings In that protein and yeast extracts are found in various condiments and seasonings and should be avoided, those to be avoided includes but are not limited to bouillion cubes/powder, meat tenderizers, dry packaged and canned soups, gravy, sauces, stew mixes, instant soup dry powder bases, Soy Sauce and Teriyaki.

Soy Sauce (has been reported to contain high levels of tyramine and reactions have been reported with Teriyaki)

Soups Prepared, can, frozen, dry packaged, restaurant soups should be avoided as Protein Extracts, bouillions may be present; furthermore, Miso Soup is prepared from fermented beans and contain high leveles of tyramine, additionally bouillons should also be avoided.

Beverages/Alcholic and Non Includes Beer, Ales, domestic and imported, Wines, especially Chianti vermouth, Whiskey and liqueurs, such as Drambuie and Chartreuse. Nonalcoholic varieties of beers and wines should also be avoided.

Ginseng Some preparations have resulted in adverse reactions and should be avoided


----------



## V1bzz

Guys I have a fresh start at life starting tomorrow, wish me luck. I feel really good about it, am not anxious or anything. My intuition is with this ad has been from the moment I seen it. Only thing that I have a few thoughts about, not really worries, just thoughts is that my legs are going to let me down on the job and also if i'm going to be fighting for dear life the next few weeks to stay awake in the training classes. from about 1-3 I feel the tiredness real bad. unless i'm active, mentally and physically.
My intuition is onboard with everything so far and i am excited what the future holds again.

This is a truly life changing move for me, thank you nardil and you lot here for helping me be able to take it


----------



## Tandorini

Had a look at the ingredients in the sauce, couldn't find anything alarming. But suppose that's got to be it. Will give it a try when i get home, with my bp monitor present. 

Typing from my mobile, on my way to bed, so haven't really had a chance to read up on your posts. But i wish you all the best, and will write more once i get back on my computer.


----------



## V1bzz

I have finally made a report to the NHS about my surgery, something happened today and it made me ill for 4 or 5 hrs.
I will fill you guys in when I have a bit more time. up at 0530 tomorrow. training was boring as fluck and I nearly fell asleep a couple of times.
Have any of you guys taken pro plus on Nardil? it made me really ill today. It's what the doctor advised me isn't it. I'm so glad I only took 1, if i had popped 5 like i usually would cos im hardcore lol, i believe i would have ended up in hospital.


----------



## V1bzz

How is everyone getting on? @SFC01 @watertouch @WillComp @Tandorini


----------



## V1bzz

I made a complaint about my surgery a few days ago to the NHS complaint board. They got back to me today with 3 forms I have to fill in to get the investigation going.

I feel bad but there lack of care for me as a patient this year has been disgusting, the final straw was telling me to take pro plus, high amounts of caffeine being on the middle interactions list with Nardil.

I felt really tired that day at work training and was fighting a hard battle to stay awake, I could have quite easily took 5 pro plus and would have got very ill. 1 was bad enough.

It's just not good enough!

Today was even worse, had one of the top managers giving us a slide show and i was a mess trying not to fall asleep!!


----------



## iamhappyandsocial

SFC01 said:


> Hey Fatboys @V1bzz and @WillComp, hopefully the weight gain will stop for you both - I dont get any hunger from nardil and can easily stick to 2000-2500 cals a day.
> 
> Just decide to stop eating the most fattening thing in your diet for a month, and then the next month, choose something else - no need for crash diets, just make some small and gradual changes to your dieting and exercising and it will soon just become a lifestyle change. Even if you only exercise for 10 mins a day to start with, you will soon build that up after a few months to something more beneficial. Try not to eat after 6PM in the evening and wait for brekky until 9ish.
> 
> If you just try and live through any hunger for a couple of days (drink water, have a coffee and an apple if you really need food) you body soon starts to adapt to that and the appetite should lower. I was huge after being on lyrica, quetiapine and imipramine but I did the above and lost 3 stone in a year whislt on nardil without turning into some health freak


What medication do you take now?


----------



## SFC01

iamhappyandsocial said:


> What medication do you take now?


who me ? I am still on nardil, plus I take amitriptyline for pain.


----------



## WillComp

I'm getting along fine. Last week I didn't have any severe postural hypotension episodes, however this week it's back worse than ever. I finally bought some sodium chloride tablets. They're arriving on Friday so I'll see how they work this weekend. For some reason, Sunday is usually horrendous when it comes to hypotension. I don't know if it has to do with finally getting sufficient rest after a 5-day week. By the 2nd day of rest on the weekend, my bp is down more than normal. I'm hoping that taking a salt tablet every morning will get rid of the hypotension/dizziness/collapsing once and for all. 

In addition, I bought sugarless gum from the store today, however when I got home I noticed at the end of the ingredients, there's a box that says in bold and all caps, "Phenylketonurics: contains Phenylalanine". Is this dangerous? Should I throw this away? All the other packages of gum I looked at listed soy lecithin in the ingredients, which I've also read can be dangerous. Has anyone chewed on gum while on Nardil that had either of these ingredients? The reason I bought this was for dry mouth, which has become unbearable if I don't have a cold drink nearby. If it's not icy cold, the drink doesn't help with the dry mouth. I also purchased Luden's Moisture Drops from Amazon for extreme dry mouth

Last but not least, I bought some more Maximum Strength Stay Awake Aid pills (caffeine pills 200mg), which have worked extremely well whenever I'm nodding off at work. I'm always wide awake within 45 minutes of taking 1 pill. Can't beat this stuff! 

Now I need to find something for my jerks. This side effect is also worse than ever. Numerous times within the last few weeks, I'll just be sitting down and suddenly my leg or arm or head or another part of my body will jerk or kick out. Yesterday I was sitting in the lobby of an auto repair shop with a bunch of people sitting all around me, I was crossing my leg and slowly getting sleepy when my top resting leg kicked out quickly and all the way forward, as if a doctor had hit my knee hard with a rubber mallet. Everyone lifted their eyebrows to check me out; they must've assumed I had turret syndrome.

Can I expect these horrendous side effects to pass at a certain time or do they stick around forever? Right now I'm falling asleep again, and the feeling is terrible. When I wake up tomorrow, it's inevitable I'll have hypotension, and when I walk into work I'll have to fight hard to focus and stay on my feet until I finally sit down in my chair. My ears will be ringing loudly, my vision will be disturbed by a blinding white light everywhere I look, and my hands will be noticeably shaking. If I stay seated, these sides disappear within 2 minutes or so. However every time I stand up, it comes back.. until the afternoon. I rarely get hypo in the afternoon/evening. 

I thought for sure all sides would disappear by August. Boy was I wrong! I can't keep my eyes open for more than a minute so gotta hit the bed now. I need to write more later.. I tried taking 2 pills sublingually but got nauseous. The taste was awful but I could get used to it. I don't have much time in the morning or evening to take it sublingually. I like to swallow it and be on my way towards my busy schedule. One of these days I'll find time to do this and report back on the forums. OMG I've fallen asleep about 10 times writing this post and getting confused as ever. I'm out..


----------



## WillComp

Update on the sugarless gum that says "Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine" in bold. The gum is Trident Perfect Peppermint Sugar Free Gum. Glad to report this causes no side effects. I've been chewing this gum for the last 2 days. I've already had 6 sticks and have been chewing them nonstop.

Best news is that it's PERFECT for getting rid of dry mouth. Finally I found something that works. This is a huge benefit and will greatly improve my mood throughout the day, since the dry mouth had gotten so bad I literally couldn't even talk to people even after drinking, eating or sucking on dry mouth drops. For me, nothing worked except sugar free gum.

Now if the salt tablets work for orthostatic hypotension (taking 1 pill every day), I'll be one happy Nardil warrior! I read one review from this kid who said his little sister had to take these because she had OH and kept fainting. The pills were so effective that she never fainted or felt dizzy at all after the first week. He said 'This is a game changer'. Cute review. :grin2:

How's everyone else getting along? @*V1bzz* @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Tandorini* (aka @nardilwarriors) :clap.. I know there's some others too.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Update on the sugarless gum that says "Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine" in bold. The gum is Trident Perfect Peppermint Sugar Free Gum. Glad to report this causes no side effects. I've been chewing this gum for the last 2 days. I've already had 6 sticks and have been chewing them nonstop.
> 
> Best news is that it's PERFECT for getting rid of dry mouth. Finally I found something that works. This is a huge benefit and will greatly improve my mood throughout the day, since the dry mouth had gotten so bad I literally couldn't even talk to people even after drinking, eating or sucking on dry mouth drops. For me, nothing worked except sugar free gum.
> 
> Now if the salt tablets work for orthostatic hypotension (taking 1 pill every day), I'll be one happy Nardil warrior! I read one review from this kid who said his little sister had to take these because she had OH and kept fainting. The pills were so effective that she never fainted or felt dizzy at all after the first week. He said 'This is a game changer'. Cute review. :grin2:
> 
> How's everyone else getting along? @*V1bzz* @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Tandorini* (aka @nardilwarriors) :clap.. I know there's some others too.


Hey mate, yeah i'm alright. glad you finally found the dry mouth cure :grin2:
I finally decided to report my doctors surgery to the Nhs for their lack of care and support for me since I started Nardil.

My anxiety has been a bit pants the last two days, I kept making silly mistakes in one of my work training sessions, kept getting flustered and nervous about things that didn't bother me the day before. I felt really overwhelmed yesterday which made it such a bloody hard day! I hate it when anxiety turns me into a fluck tard!

Don't know what else to say really, just going to keep going with 75 mg and hopefully it will kick in properly at some point. I have been also experiencing very mild hypotension feelings but im guessing taking them in my mouth keeps them very mild.
I'm just over 4 weeks @ 75 mg now


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Hey mate, yeah i'm alright. glad you finally found the dry mouth cure :grin2:
> I finally decided to report my doctors surgery to the Nhs for their lack of care and support for me since I started Nardil.
> 
> My anxiety has been a bit pants the last two days, I kept making silly mistakes in one of my work training sessions, kept getting flustered and nervous about things that didn't bother me the day before. I felt really overwhelmed yesterday which made it such a bloody hard day! I hate it when anxiety turns me into a fluck tard!
> 
> Don't know what else to say really, just going to keep going with 75 mg and hopefully it will kick in properly at some point. I have been also experiencing very mild hypotension feelings but im guessing taking them in my mouth keeps them very mild.
> I'm just over 4 weeks @ 75 mg now


Overall, is your anxiety reducing, mate? On most days I have virtually no social anxiety and can talk to most people a lot differently than before nardil. My mood is great and I show no signs of SA.

Then out of the blue, I'll have a bad day. I can feel the anxiety wrecking my body, I feel awful, shaky, total avoidance and paranoid. However, not nearly as bad as pre-nardil.

So I figure I'll have bad days (sometimes 2-3 bad days in a row) but overall 90% of my days are wonderful. Before nardil, I couldn't function around people every single day, now I'm completely calm most of the time.

Hopefully you'll start feeling like that on most day. It's amazing knowing you're not going to freak out walking into a store or talking to people at work.


----------



## Tandorini

Hi guys, managed to forgot my password and wasn't able to do the reset-thingy from my mobile. But I'm back home now, and again able to log on.
@WillComp Hang in there, the sides will get better. I've been on Nardil 60 mg nearly 6 months now, and I am getting better. The hypotension is basically gone, and the fatigue is a LOT better. Now I don't know what really is fatigue, and what is me having created a habit of taking afternoon naps. Maybe it's mostly in my head now.

I really haven't been having much trouble with lactic acid over the last couple of weeks. I need to start writing these things down, I easily forget time frames. But I know I was bothered by it in Croatia, which was late July. Maybe later too, I don't know. I don't know if this is the side effect slowly passing, or if the magnesium and potassium I started taking that is actually helping. Atm I am taking 600 mg of magnesium and the potassium I take one tablet of (I don't remember the milligrams, but I wrote it here earlier). I'm certainly gonna keep taking those two supplements for a few weeks. I started an iron supplement at the same time, but it's too early for that to kick in just yet.

Today I am definitely going to a spin class. I logged into the gym's web page, and see that I haven't been to a spin class since June 17th. I mean, I used to go two or three times a week! Throughout my depression I worked out a lot because I felt restless and anxious, and working out helped me a great deal. Now I'm feeling better and don't feel that urgent need to work out, and also I have struggled with the lactic acid etc. But now I am better, I really should start working out again, before I lose everything I've worked so hard for.

I'm seeing both my psychologist and my psychomotoric on Monday, it'll be a hard day. And then the week after it will be my new psychiatrist. I'm gonna discuss dosages with him. Part of me wants to go up to 75 mg, now that I tolerate Nardil better. But then again - why would I wanna get the side effects back, now that I am finally catching a break?

I do feel voulnerable - I am not really depressed, but I feel it's never far away. I worked a bit too much a few weeks ago, which resulted in the old thought pattern where I think about my illness, what I've been through, what life's gonna be like etc. Maybe 75 mg of Nardil would get me even better.
@V1bzz Hope you are able to keep up with your training, and that you don't let the nervousness get a hold of you. Some days are better than others, and hey, being in a new environment, with people monitoring your skills, that would stress anyone out.

And no, still haven't taken them sublingually. I've been at my parents' house, and I don't like the idea of them knowing about my medication. I had to keep them in the fridge, so even though I put them in an unmarked box, I bet someone has opened it to see what it is. But anyway, I tried taking the pills quite discreetly, which sometimes resulted in me having to keep them in my mouth for maybe 10-15 seconds while I got myself a drink of water. I could barely take it. So I am far from attempting taking them sublingually.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey guys, yeah my anxiety is improved most day. I expect it will get better too as I have only been at 75 mg just over 4 weeks 

Back to training again tomorrow, was supposed to be out on my own Tuesday but the garage has delayed me getting the van until Tuesday so I expect I will be going out on Wednesday, means more classroom training tomorrow huff, I suppose though it gives me one more day to try and learn the current stuff that is confusing me.

Am still waiting for that night that I get really cool rushes all over my body, I know then there is a good chance that when I wake up and take my meds I will feel awesome, can't wait 
@SFC01 did your order come yet mate?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* did your order come yet mate?


Hi Mate, got the phenylpiracetam through so have taken that these last couple of days - I give it a thumbs up without being amazing. Seems to give me more motivation and energy but a little bit of anger, not too much though. Will be ordering again.

Regarding the armodafanil, my debit card wouldn't go through so it was either an international bank transfer with another £20 on top of costs or bit coin and I have no idea what I am doing with bit coin. If you have the time to PM me and talk me through it that would be appreciated :grin2:. Otherwise may just go for the wire transfer.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi Mate, got the phenylpiracetam through so have taken that these last couple of days - I give it a thumbs up without being amazing. Seems to give me more motivation and energy but a little bit of anger, not too much though. Will be ordering again.
> 
> Regarding the armodafanil, my debit card wouldn't go through so it was either an international bank transfer with another £20 on top of costs or bit coin and I have no idea what I am doing with bit coin. If you have the time to PM me and talk me through it that would be appreciated :grin2:. Otherwise may just go for the wire transfer.


Done!


----------



## V1bzz

Guys sorry I haven't been writing much lately, just really tired this week but at least i know i am getting fitter and am also slowly losing some weight 
My nardil memory problems are making it real difficult to hold information, it really makes me look like I am a thicko and then i get really anxious because I can't remember everything  and feel super nervous when i know i have to do something.

Really can't wait to get to the levels you guys are all at and stop worrying about these things so much.

will chat more at the weekend when im a bit less tired.

Hope all are ok


----------



## Tandorini

Been feeling more tired, more down, lately. I suppose I'm exhausted. I worked too much, I've been on vacation and having to be around people all the time, I guess it's all taken a toll on me. At least that's what I hope, so that I will get better once I get some rest.

Seeing the new doctor on Monday. I can't decide whether I should go for 75 mg, or stay at 60 mg. I'm less bothered by side effects now. But do I really wanna get them back again? Then again - I'm obviously not a 100 % well, as I feel depressed when I get exhausted. I hope he's nice, and that I will be able to discuss the pro's and con's with him. If not, I will have to make a quick decision and tell him. I think I might go for 75 mg.


----------



## cigpk

Lol this thread is crazy - you guys have had such rough nardil experiences!! I feel for you. I am on day 4 of Nardil, 45 mg. I am planning on staying at this dosage for a month or so with the HOPE that it may lessen sides if/when I move up to 60 mg... My doc wanted me to move up to 60 after just one week but I'm going to move very slow, or is that not smart...? 

The only thing I've noticed so far is head zaps/vertigo when changing head/eye position. Looking in different directions sends a zap down my head but I think that's from cold-turkeying the parnate at 60 mg. I began 45 mg Nardil the same day I took my last 60 mg parnate with 0 issues... 

Did you all see ANY benefit at all on 45 mg? I'm optimistic though. Thanks for writing about your experiences here everyone!


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> Did you all see ANY benefit at all on 45 mg? I'm optimistic though. Thanks for writing about your experiences here everyone!


Yeah I noticed some pretty significant improvement in mood on 45mg, and it started to work quite quickly, couple of weeks I think it was. The improvement was a bit inconsistent at that dose though but became consistently good at 75mg.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Lol this thread is crazy - you guys have had such rough nardil experiences!! I feel for you. I am on day 4 of Nardil, 45 mg. I am planning on staying at this dosage for a month or so with the HOPE that it may lessen sides if/when I move up to 60 mg... My doc wanted me to move up to 60 after just one week but I'm going to move very slow, or is that not smart...?
> 
> The only thing I've noticed so far is head zaps/vertigo when changing head/eye position. Looking in different directions sends a zap down my head but I think that's from cold-turkeying the parnate at 60 mg. I began 45 mg Nardil the same day I took my last 60 mg parnate with 0 issues...
> 
> Did you all see ANY benefit at all on 45 mg? I'm optimistic though. Thanks for writing about your experiences here everyone!


Yeah, this thread is crazy. That's what Nardil will do to to you. >

Those zaps might be due to the Parnate, yeah.

I did feel slight improvement at 45 mg, I did. But I was severly depressed, and didn't really recognize or appreciate it much. But I now realise I was slowly improving even at 45 mg. I went from 0 to 60 in about three weeks, I think. Then after maybe 4 or 5 weeks I went up to 75 mg, and then to 90, but the side effects were too severe, so I had to go back to 60 mg.

No need to take it slow if you're not bothered too much by side effects, I reckon.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah I noticed some pretty significant improvement in mood on 45mg, and it started to work quite quickly, couple of weeks I think it was. The improvement was a bit inconsistent at that dose though but became consistently good at 75mg.


off topic but it has to be said...innocent my arse!! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Been feeling more tired, more down, lately. I suppose I'm exhausted. I worked too much, I've been on vacation and having to be around people all the time, I guess it's all taken a toll on me. At least that's what I hope, so that I will get better once I get some rest.
> 
> Seeing the new doctor on Monday. I can't decide whether I should go for 75 mg, or stay at 60 mg. I'm less bothered by side effects now. But do I really wanna get them back again? Then again - I'm obviously not a 100 % well, as I feel depressed when I get exhausted. I hope he's nice, and that I will be able to discuss the pro's and con's with him. If not, I will have to make a quick decision and tell him. I think I might go for 75 mg.


I would say to go with what you feel about going up or not, follow that little feeling in your chest.

I don't want to say this and for it to be wrong but im going to say it anyway, I think that once you get past the sides that is your body finally used to it so hopefully you will not feel any worse side effects wise.
I don't get any of the worst now, I have been working my *** off the last two weeks and have been coping physically just fine, i just have to bare the screaming pain in my lower back and the pain in my legs.

I gotta tell yall summin, I was 14.4 stone 2 weeks ago, i am now 13.7 stone :O:O:O
I am literally sweating my titter tatters off every day, never sweated like it haha, weight is falling off me...one thing is consistent and present still though, the damn pot belly!

Good luck with what you decide, it sounds to me like you are ready for the next step


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Lol this thread is crazy - you guys have had such rough nardil experiences!! I feel for you. I am on day 4 of Nardil, 45 mg. I am planning on staying at this dosage for a month or so with the HOPE that it may lessen sides if/when I move up to 60 mg... My doc wanted me to move up to 60 after just one week but I'm going to move very slow, or is that not smart...?
> 
> The only thing I've noticed so far is head zaps/vertigo when changing head/eye position. Looking in different directions sends a zap down my head but I think that's from cold-turkeying the parnate at 60 mg. I began 45 mg Nardil the same day I took my last 60 mg parnate with 0 issues...
> 
> Did you all see ANY benefit at all on 45 mg? I'm optimistic though. Thanks for writing about your experiences here everyone!


haha your not wrong there, welcome to the thread and us nut jobs :grin2:

Nardil is different for everybody so just go with it, see how it goes at 45, hopefully you will be blessed with minimal side effects and it will work for you really quickly like @SFC01 , hopefully you don't rub it in as much though >

If you got any questions just ask, tell us what your feeling or what problems you are having and we will try to help. we have tried sooo many different things but also learnt some ways to deal with the worst that nardil gives if you get it.

really hope it is a nice painless journey for you and it helps straight away :smile2:

Did you read through all of the thread? :O haha


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I would say to go with what you feel about going up or not, follow that little feeling in your chest.
> 
> I don't want to say this and for it to be wrong but im going to say it anyway, I think that once you get past the sides that is your body finally used to it so hopefully you will not feel any worse side effects wise.
> I don't get any of the worst now, I have been working my *** off the last two weeks and have been coping physically just fine, i just have to bare the screaming pain in my lower back and the pain in my legs.
> 
> I gotta tell yall summin, I was 14.4 stone 2 weeks ago, i am now 13.7 stone :O:O:O
> I am literally sweating my titter tatters off every day, never sweated like it haha, weight is falling off me...one thing is consistent and present still though, the damn pot belly!
> 
> Good luck with what you decide, it sounds to me like you are ready for the next step


Thanks for your support, yeah, maybe I won't be as bothered by the sides this time.

That's great work, losing weight! I have no idea what a stone is, but percentagewise you have lost quite a lot in only two weeks! I have gained a few kilos over the summer, which I am planning to lose again, at least not gain any more. But my clothes still fit me, so I'm not gonna worry too much about it. I gained because I ate a lot over the holidays, once I get back into my normal routine I think I'll adjust. But the spin class I went to made my body quite exhausted for several days, I think.

Got quite a bit of the lactic acid today. Seems it wasn't all gone after all. Hopefully it will bother me less from now on.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Lol this thread is crazy - you guys have had such rough nardil experiences!! I feel for you. I am on day 4 of Nardil, 45 mg. I am planning on staying at this dosage for a month or so with the HOPE that it may lessen sides if/when I move up to 60 mg... My doc wanted me to move up to 60 after just one week but I'm going to move very slow, or is that not smart...?
> 
> The only thing I've noticed so far is head zaps/vertigo when changing head/eye position. Looking in different directions sends a zap down my head but I think that's from cold-turkeying the parnate at 60 mg. I began 45 mg Nardil the same day I took my last 60 mg parnate with 0 issues...
> 
> Did you all see ANY benefit at all on 45 mg? I'm optimistic though. Thanks for writing about your experiences here everyone!


This thread is full of crazy stuff, but we actually do discuss side effects and stuff that work against them, so if you read through it all, you'll find plenty of tips and tricks. I wouldn't really recommend that though, rather ask us again, and we'll tell you. You would just get confused trying to separate good and bad advice from the people in this thread 

The guys will have you order all kinds of stuff online, taking triple doses of it. Me, I will probably tell you to stick to the stuff available OTC in your country. 

Does your prescribing doc know Nardil well? I think that's what a lot of people here have in common - we have been prescribed Nardil by doctors who don't really have any experience with the drug, and who are not prepared for all the side effects which may also need treating. That's why we have to do some experiments on our own.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> haha your not wrong there, welcome to the thread and us nut jobs :grin2:
> 
> Nardil is different for everybody so just go with it, see how it goes at 45, hopefully you will be blessed with minimal side effects and it will work for you really quickly like @SFC01 , hopefully you don't rub it in as much though >
> 
> If you got any questions just ask, tell us what your feeling or what problems you are having and we will try to help. we have tried sooo many different things but also learnt some ways to deal with the worst that nardil gives if you get it.
> 
> really hope it is a nice painless journey for you and it helps straight away :smile2:
> 
> Did you read through all of the thread? :O haha


Thank you for the kind words and encouragement!

Yes I did! I've been reading it every now and then since before I started Nardil just to get updates on yall's progress actually. It sounds like things are starting to settle down a little bit so that's nice. I remember some of the pot belly posts and laughing my *** off (with you guys, not at you :laugh. I'm glad things have been looking up though! I haven't had any side effects YET except for some disruption in my sleeping patterns, but I have never been completely side-effect free on ANY medication so I'm sure they'll come at some point. I just gotta wait and see I guess. The head zaps from quitting parnate have just about gone but I have noticed I'm a little sensitive/over-emotional the past couple of days but I assume that's from quitting the 60mg parnate cold-turkey rather than starting the Nardil.



Tandorini said:


> This thread is full of crazy stuff, but we actually do discuss side effects and stuff that work against them, so if you read through it all, you'll find plenty of tips and tricks. I wouldn't really recommend that though, rather ask us again, and we'll tell you. You would just get confused trying to separate good and bad advice from the people in this thread
> 
> The guys will have you order all kinds of stuff online, taking triple doses of it. Me, I will probably tell you to stick to the stuff available OTC in your country.
> 
> Does your prescribing doc know Nardil well? I think that's what a lot of people here have in common - we have been prescribed Nardil by doctors who don't really have any experience with the drug, and who are not prepared for all the side effects which may also need treating. That's why we have to do some experiments on our own.


My doc doesn't know jack about MAOIs. He is going straight off of google whenever I ask him a question about it. I am taking 45 mg Nardil for my 5th day today and I take 50 mg Trazodone at night. My sleep has been a little weird... I'll have trouble falling asleep or I'll fall asleep easily and then wake up 4 hours later and have to pop some melatonin because I'm wide awake. But whenever I get going in the morning I'm not sleepy at all. A little coffee normally does the trick..

I take a Maca supplement too which increases my blood pressure a little as well as provides me some nice energy boosts. That could be something to look into if you guys haven't already? It is supposed to boost libido too but it may be doing about as much as a tic-tac for all I know - wishful thinking I guess.

My current supplements are:
-Morning: Maca, calcium, Vitamin D, Zinc, fish oil, agmatine
-Afternoon: Arginine/citruline, L-theanine serene
-Night: Multivitamin, Magnesium, L theanine serene

I'm taking 30 mg Nardil upon waking and 15 mg about 1-2 hours later. Do you guys have any other suggestions? I used to take several supplements to prevent high blood pressure on parnate but I assume I can quit taking these? It seems like nardil lowers blood pressure on it's own for most individuals?

Thanks for reading and for any advice! Good luck to everyone!


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> My doc doesn't know jack about MAOIs. He is going straight off of google whenever I ask him a question about it. I am taking 45 mg Nardil for my 5th day today and I take 50 mg Trazodone at night. My sleep has been a little weird... I'll have trouble falling asleep or I'll fall asleep easily and then wake up 4 hours later and have to pop some melatonin because I'm wide awake. But whenever I get going in the morning I'm not sleepy at all. A little coffee normally does the trick..
> 
> I take a Maca supplement too which increases my blood pressure a little as well as provides me some nice energy boosts. That could be something to look into if you guys haven't already? It is supposed to boost libido too but it may be doing about as much as a tic-tac for all I know - wishful thinking I guess.
> 
> My current supplements are:
> -Morning: Maca, calcium, Vitamin D, Zinc, fish oil, agmatine
> -Afternoon: Arginine/citruline, L-theanine serene
> -Night: Multivitamin, Magnesium, L theanine serene
> 
> I'm taking 30 mg Nardil upon waking and 15 mg about 1-2 hours later. Do you guys have any other suggestions? I used to take several supplements to prevent high blood pressure on parnate but I assume I can quit taking these? It seems like nardil lowers blood pressure on it's own for most individuals?
> 
> Thanks for reading and for any advice! Good luck to everyone!


I take Nardil 30 mg morning and 30 mg evening (with breakfast and then together with Seroquel before I go to bed at night), as instructed by my doctor. Since starting Nardil I haven't had much trouble falling asleep, but I wake up in the wee hours of the morning. I see a lot of people do that. That too has gotten a little better. It's a side effect I kinda miss, though. Waking up really early, actually wanting to get up and get on with the day. Now I am back to being tired in the mornings again. Had to use the alarm on my phone in order to get up at 6 am this morning.

Nardil causes ortostatic hypotension (blood pressure is normal or just a little low to beging with, but drops when standing up) in most people I've heard about. Supplements to rise blood pressure would give too high blood pressure throughout the day, even if it might help you not falling or anything when it drops. The first couple of months on Nardil my blood pressure rose to up to 170/115 after the morning dose, staying like that for maybe 15 minutes until slowly going back to normal. At the same time I would have serious ortostatic hypotension several times throughout the day. My BP would be measured to 60/40 and 170/115 at different times on the same day. So I couldn't have taken anything to either make it go up or down.

I take an iron supplement (prescribed by my doctor) and Seroquel. Supplements I take are potassium and magnesium (trying these two out to see if my muscles will feel less sore) a multi vitamin and cod liver oil capsules


----------



## cigpk

Tandorini said:


> I take Nardil 30 mg morning and 30 mg evening (with breakfast and then together with Seroquel before I go to bed at night), as instructed by my doctor. Since starting Nardil I haven't had much trouble falling asleep, but I wake up in the wee hours of the morning. I see a lot of people do that. That too has gotten a little better. It's a side effect I kinda miss, though. Waking up really early, actually wanting to get up and get on with the day. Now I am back to being tired in the mornings again. Had to use the alarm on my phone in order to get up at 6 am this morning.
> 
> Nardil causes ortostatic hypotension (blood pressure is normal or just a little low to beging with, but drops when standing up) in most people I've heard about. Supplements to rise blood pressure would give too high blood pressure throughout the day, even if it might help you not falling or anything when it drops. The first couple of months on Nardil my blood pressure rose to up to 170/115 after the morning dose, staying like that for maybe 15 minutes until slowly going back to normal. At the same time I would have serious ortostatic hypotension several times throughout the day. My BP would be measured to 60/40 and 170/115 at different times on the same day. So I couldn't have taken anything to either make it go up or down.
> 
> I take an iron supplement (prescribed by my doctor) and Seroquel. Supplements I take are potassium and magnesium (trying these two out to see if my muscles will feel less sore) a multi vitamin and cod liver oil capsules


Yeah that makes sense. Mine sits at about 130/80 at the highest point in the day so I guess saying Maca raises BP is a little bit of an overstatement but I do think it can be good for energy if it doesn't have too much of an effect on your BP.

As for taking Nardil at night - do you notice it disrupts your sleep at all? I'm taking 30 mg first thing in the morning and notice I feel a little woken up but I can't tell if that's just a placebo effect (or maybe it's also coffee lol).


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Yeah that makes sense. Mine sits at about 130/80 at the highest point in the day so I guess saying Maca raises BP is a little bit of an overstatement but I do think it can be good for energy if it doesn't have too much of an effect on your BP.
> 
> As for taking Nardil at night - do you notice it disrupts your sleep at all? I'm taking 30 mg first thing in the morning and notice I feel a little woken up but I can't tell if that's just a placebo effect (or maybe it's also coffee lol).


What is Maca, anyway? Never heard of it before.

I have no trouble falling asleep, but I did have trouble with waking up after a few hours, not being able to go back to sleep. But I don't get that anymore. I started Nardil while I was in the hospital, and they always gave me the tablets morning and evening, so I continued following their schedule after going back home. Maybe I would have been better off taking them in the middle of the day, but I find it very hard to remember tablets during day time. With breakfast or before bed I remember, but not at other times. Besides, I might be out or something, with no access to my tablets. I use the kind which need to be refridgerated. It's just easier, the way I take them now.


----------



## cigpk

Tandorini said:


> What is Maca, anyway? Never heard of it before.
> 
> I have no trouble falling asleep, but I did have trouble with waking up after a few hours, not being able to go back to sleep. But I don't get that anymore. I started Nardil while I was in the hospital, and they always gave me the tablets morning and evening, so I continued following their schedule after going back home. Maybe I would have been better off taking them in the middle of the day, but I find it very hard to remember tablets during day time. With breakfast or before bed I remember, but not at other times. Besides, I might be out or something, with no access to my tablets. I use the kind which need to be refridgerated. It's just easier, the way I take them now.


Ok cool! I think I'll have to play around with dosing schedules to find what works best.

Honestly, Maca may be completely useless lol but I started taking it years ago to counteract SSRI side effects and I saw some benefits to energy, sex life, and mood (unless they were placebo... it's so hard to tell sometimes!!). I also have struggled with VERY low testosterone levels in the past (I'm on TRT now because my levels dropped to 85+ year old levels...  they think years of drug abuse and hormone deficiencies did this...) and it's supposed to help "balance" hormone levels - NOT increase your testosterone or something to unhealthy levels - it has a VERY light, natural effect on hormones)

*"Maca Root benefits include increased fertility in both men and women, hormone balance, booster for the immune system, and increased energy, stamina, improved sexual function, memory, and focus. (1, 2)

Maca is considered an "adaptogen", a name given to certain herbs, plants, and natural substances that help the body naturally adapt to stressors like a busy schedule, demanding job, or illness, for example. (3)

Another unique fact about maca root is that historically it has been considered a very potent aphrodisiac and a traditional fertility secret of populations living in the Andes.

Consuming maca often makes people feel more "alive", energetic, and leaves them with a sense of well-being, all of which are thought to be due to its ability to restore proper hormone balance and elevate "feel good" endorphins. Another benefit of maca is its relatively high amount of absorbable plant-based nutrients, including protein, fiber, calcium and magnesium, among others."*

I do know that it can increase agitation if taking too much which it has for myself so I limit myself to just one capsule now. I take this brand: https://www.amazon.com/capsules-Per...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3W55RXXBS8GNKRR49PRS

It's pretty cheap - there are prob better quality sources out there but that's what I've currently got in my stash of supplements. I like the taste of it too so I normally pour it out into my coffee in the morning.

It might be a **** supplement though - someone else may come in and say that but I haven't seen any downside from it so I figured why not, ya know?


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Ok cool! I think I'll have to play around with dosing schedules to find what works best.
> 
> Honestly, Maca may be completely useless lol but I started taking it years ago to counteract SSRI side effects and I saw some benefits to energy, sex life, and mood (unless they were placebo... it's so hard to tell sometimes!!). I also have struggled with VERY low testosterone levels in the past (I'm on TRT now because my levels dropped to 85+ year old levels...  they think years of drug abuse and hormone deficiencies did this...) and it's supposed to help "balance" hormone levels - NOT increase your testosterone or something to unhealthy levels - it has a VERY light, natural effect on hormones)
> 
> *"Maca Root benefits include increased fertility in both men and women, hormone balance, booster for the immune system, and increased energy, stamina, improved sexual function, memory, and focus. (1, 2)
> 
> Maca is considered an "adaptogen", a name given to certain herbs, plants, and natural substances that help the body naturally adapt to stressors like a busy schedule, demanding job, or illness, for example. (3)
> 
> Another unique fact about maca root is that historically it has been considered a very potent aphrodisiac and a traditional fertility secret of populations living in the Andes.
> 
> Consuming maca often makes people feel more "alive", energetic, and leaves them with a sense of well-being, all of which are thought to be due to its ability to restore proper hormone balance and elevate "feel good" endorphins. Another benefit of maca is its relatively high amount of absorbable plant-based nutrients, including protein, fiber, calcium and magnesium, among others."*
> 
> I do know that it can increase agitation if taking too much which it has for myself so I limit myself to just one capsule now. I take this brand: https://www.amazon.com/capsules-Per...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3W55RXXBS8GNKRR49PRS
> 
> It's pretty cheap - there are prob better quality sources out there but that's what I've currently got in my stash of supplements. I like the taste of it too so I normally pour it out into my coffee in the morning.
> 
> It might be a **** supplement though - someone else may come in and say that but I haven't seen any downside from it so I figured why not, ya know?


I googled it, seems it's illegal here in Norway. There are a lot of restrictions here, hardly anything can be bought OTC, and a lot of stuff isn't available with prescription either. Oh well. I'll stick with what I'm already on.


----------



## watertouch

Tandorini said:


> I googled it, seems it's illegal here in Norway. There are a lot of restrictions here, hardly anything can be bought OTC, and a lot of stuff isn't available with prescription either. Oh well. I'll stick with what I'm already on.


Does the custums grab it if one order supplements over the internet?

Maca powder taste really bad, so its like a psychological effect that it probable helps with say Libido and such.

No morning wood on Nardil? >


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> Does the custums grab it if one order supplements over the internet?
> 
> Maca powder taste really bad, so its like a psychological effect that it probable helps with say Libido and such.
> 
> No morning wood on Nardil? >


I am happy to report I still don't have any trouble with morning wood. :grin2:

Yeah, customs will grab it. Tried ordering melatonin once, got a letter from customs telling me it was seized. While not being illegal, I had ordered it from outside the EU, which in intself is illegal. I then ordered from the UK, and received it. That was years ago. You can get melatonin here now, but only by prescription. It's not used very much.

You can order drugs which are OTC/legal in the other country, as long as it is within the EU, then you will be able to keep it. Unless it is on the list of what is illegal in Norway. Which is quite a bit. Some stuff is only seized and you'll be notified, some stuff will get you in trouble.


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Yeah that makes sense. Mine sits at about 130/80 at the highest point in the day so I guess saying Maca raises BP is a little bit of an overstatement but I do think it can be good for energy if it doesn't have too much of an effect on your BP.
> 
> As for taking Nardil at night - do you notice it disrupts your sleep at all? I'm taking 30 mg first thing in the morning and notice I feel a little woken up but I can't tell if that's just a placebo effect (or maybe it's also coffee lol).


There are some really fun stages on Nardil, sounds like one is coming on for you already. I myself have always been able to fall asleep so so quickly on nardil, before it used to take me about 4hrs to drop off, now im gone in 5 minutes :grin2: , the fun stage i am on about is early on nardil makes you feel like your wasting time when you sleep, your body wakes you up a lot and you constantly look at the time wanting it to be a decent enough time to be able to get up, my body clock set itself for waking at about 0545 - 0.630. you get to see the sun come up and hear the birds singing morning song, i never appreciated it before as i used to sleep until 09:30 every single day. Through this phase you wake up un-tired and motivated ready to get on with the day. it's really a cool phase, just prepare yourself to start taking afternoon naps.

You also have a manic phase to come, unfortunately for me I was too ill with side effects to experience this phase but you will feel awesome for about a week, life couldn't be better, everything is bright and beautiful. 
Please just know that it will stop after about a week so don't get up thinking it's stopped working.

I would stop taking macca for now and do a search for drugs.com interactions. it has a thing where you can match up any drug against nardil to find out if there are any listed interactions.

@ everyone, I accidentally took 105 mg two days ago, totally forgot i took my afternoon dose while working. Came home opened the bottle and did another two, realized my error and quickly popped 5 activated charcoal.

Few hrs later I was in nardil world, i actually remember thinking that it was a good dose for me and i needed to stay there. Next day though i was so tired and groggy, forced myself out of bed at 09:00 but fell back to sleep at about 1-2pm, i slept until 6pm, completely wasted the day 

Feel alright today. Before nardil I had totally lost the ability to connect with people, it's like i knew people but was unable to take it past the first meeting emotionally, there fore being unable to form any kind of connection or friendship.

Just recently at the new job I have noticed I am now able to do that :grin2: its such a weird feeling, I have already made a friend is used to be a professional MMA fighter, was pretty famous in it, didnt know until he told me. is a wiki about him and everything, his fights were on tv lol. I watch his fights on youtube and compare to the person i know and it is like a completely different person, he's a really nice non aggressive guy. I'm pretty sure pre nardil I would have felt very threatened by his fighting.
I am also starting to build friendships with others, because i don't care so much about being me. 
people i have worked with for a day, I feel like I know them a little bit and can now talk to them easily now the next time i see them and crack a laugh with them. My stupid naughty personality is coming back too. I just bought myself an luminous yellow head sweat band for work because when im loading I sweat so bad because it hurts my body, especially lower back fatigue and because i am so damn unfit.
I would never have worn something to stand out before just recently. too many people would look at me and i would die inside.

Really glad I stuck it out with nardil, it has taken a long long time with a lot of pain and sweat along the way, but i am slowly getting there. I am far from healed but just these few things have helped me a great deal in my life already 
@Tandorini really wish the morning thing would come back for me too, I have to get up every morning at 05:30 and it takes me a while to get going!

As usual hope all are well


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> There are some really fun stages on Nardil, sounds like one is coming on for you already. I myself have always been able to fall asleep so so quickly on nardil, before it used to take me about 4hrs to drop off, now im gone in 5 minutes :grin2: , the fun stage i am on about is early on nardil makes you feel like your wasting time when you sleep, your body wakes you up a lot and you constantly look at the time wanting it to be a decent enough time to be able to get up, my body clock set itself for waking at about 0545 - 0.630. you get to see the sun come up and hear the birds singing morning song, i never appreciated it before as i used to sleep until 09:30 every single day. Through this phase you wake up un-tired and motivated ready to get on with the day. it's really a cool phase, just prepare yourself to start taking afternoon naps.
> 
> You also have a manic phase to come, unfortunately for me I was too ill with side effects to experience this phase but you will feel awesome for about a week, life couldn't be better, everything is bright and beautiful.
> Please just know that it will stop after about a week so don't get up thinking it's stopped working.
> 
> I would stop taking macca for now and do a search for drugs.com interactions. it has a thing where you can match up any drug against nardil to find out if there are any listed interactions.
> 
> @ everyone, I accidentally took 105 mg two days ago, totally forgot i took my afternoon dose while working. Came home opened the bottle and did another two, realized my error and quickly popped 5 activated charcoal.
> 
> Few hrs later I was in nardil world, i actually remember thinking that it was a good dose for me and i needed to stay there. Next day though i was so tired and groggy, forced myself out of bed at 09:00 but fell back to sleep at about 1-2pm, i slept until 6pm, completely wasted the day
> 
> Feel alright today. Before nardil I had totally lost the ability to connect with people, it's like i knew people but was unable to take it past the first meeting emotionally, there fore being unable to form any kind of connection or friendship.
> 
> Just recently at the new job I have noticed I am now able to do that :grin2: its such a weird feeling, I have already made a friend is used to be a professional MMA fighter, was pretty famous in it, didnt know until he told me. is a wiki about him and everything, his fights were on tv lol. I watch his fights on youtube and compare to the person i know and it is like a completely different person, he's a really nice non aggressive guy. I'm pretty sure pre nardil I would have felt very threatened by his fighting.
> I am also starting to build friendships with others, because i don't care so much about being me.
> people i have worked with for a day, I feel like I know them a little bit and can now talk to them easily now the next time i see them and crack a laugh with them. My stupid naughty personality is coming back too. I just bought myself an luminous yellow head sweat band for work because when im loading I sweat so bad because it hurts my body, especially lower back fatigue and because i am so damn unfit.
> I would never have worn something to stand out before just recently. too many people would look at me and i would die inside.
> 
> Really glad I stuck it out with nardil, it has taken a long long time with a lot of pain and sweat along the way, but i am slowly getting there. I am far from healed but just these few things have helped me a great deal in my life already
> 
> @Tandorini really wish the morning thing would come back for me too, I have to get up every morning at 05:30 and it takes me a while to get going!
> 
> As usual hope all are well


Thanks for all the insight on the "stages of nardil!" I can't tell if I'm in a slightly hypomanic stage yet - it has been strange this week since I discontinued the parnate and immediately began the nardil. I think I was sort of dealing with some wonky emotional ups and downs because of the switch but I do feel pretty good overall! Very positive about things and SA is pretty low! I went out to a brunch with my roommate and his gf today and did not feel any anxiety most of the time! I was able to just enjoy myself and be present.

Today marks one full week on Nardil! I am noticing a little more fatigue than usual today. I drank 3 cups of coffee this morning though and I felt zero anxiety from it, just the benefits of being caffeinated and more talkative!! Normally 3 cups of coffee would send me into panic mode with crazy high BP but my BP was normal which is a new thing for me!

My gf and I (long history but recently got back together after 3 years of being apart) had sex this weekend for the first time since we've been back together and I lasted a whopping 2 minutes lol. Sorry if this is all TMI but whatever - I did notice I was VERY anxious at first and I was REALLY struggling to get an erection but once I did it was no problem at all - I just had a lot of performance anxiety which is nothing new for me, especially since we haven't had sex in ages. I've noticed I don't last long at all since I switched from 60 mg parnate but I think I didn't have time to adjust to the parnate. I know ED is a common issue with Nardil but I was thinking maybe I could prevent it by staying at 45 mg for a month or so and then moving up to 60? Or what about moving up to just 52.5 mg Nardil with just half a tablet? That may be pointless though, does anyone have experience with halving the tablets? I do plan to move up to 60 but I'm just trying to pace myself. Maybe I'm being overly cautious though.

I have been very happy with this week so far though! I also have wellbutrin on hand if ED and fatigue becomes an issue but I'm planning to hold off on adding anything to the nardil for now since I'm already taking trazodone to sleep. And that's the other thing - I'm sleeping much better over the past few days compared to the beginning of last week. Things are looking up!


----------



## Tandorini

Be careful about adding Wellbutrin - I know some people do that, but it's listed as dangerous to take with MAOIs. 

Wellbutrin really fukced with my mind. Made me feel I had thought that weren't mine, and that scared me. I told my doc, and he persuaded me to get admitted to the hospital, which I didn't really want at the time. When I got there they admitted me to the high dependency ward, which really sucked. Luckily I was only there for 24 hours before being "released" to the other ward. That's a year ago now. Seems like forever. 

I think I lost maybe 10 or 12 kilos during the months on Wellbutrin. I just lost all interest in food. I ate when I got a headache, because only then I would realise I hadn't eaten for hours. I never threw the tablets away. Might need some of them as diet pills.  (But no, they way they messed up my mind, I will most likely never touch them.)

I'm seing my new psychiatrist in a couple of hours. Kinda nervous. He'll be in charge of my medication from now on. I hope he has some insight into MAOIs. I haven't decided if I am going to ask for 75 mg or not. I keep going back and forth in my mind about that. Hopefully he'll be a decent doctor, who can help me with the decision.

And yeah, going up to 75 will probably give me anorgasmia for a couple of months again. I really should have made more out of last weekend. Crap. Might have to go out to the pubs tonight, before starting 75 tomorrow. :grin2:0

I never did get the hypomanic state that the others talk about. But then again, my main problem has been depression, not SA. So on the "mood scale" I was so far from hypomanic/manic that I never rose to that, I suppose. I wish I did, though. :clap

Never tried half a tablet. They are not meant to be cut into two pieces, so you'll have a hard time getting exactly 52,5 mg a day. But I guess it doesn't really matter whether you're getting 50 or 55 mg, your aim is not to get the full 60 mg. You could try, I guess. Have a look at the leaflet that comes with your brand of Nardil. Unless it specifically says not to chew or divide it, it should be safe enough.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Does the custums grab it if one order supplements over the internet?
> 
> Maca powder taste really bad, so its like a psychological effect that it probable helps with say Libido and such.
> 
> No morning wood on Nardil? >


Welcome back  where ya been?


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Be careful about adding Wellbutrin - I know some people do that, but it's listed as dangerous to take with MAOIs.
> 
> Wellbutrin really fukced with my mind. Made me feel I had thought that weren't mine, and that scared me. I told my doc, and he persuaded me to get admitted to the hospital, which I didn't really want at the time. When I got there they admitted me to the high dependency ward, which really sucked. Luckily I was only there for 24 hours before being "released" to the other ward. That's a year ago now. Seems like forever.
> 
> I think I lost maybe 10 or 12 kilos during the months on Wellbutrin. I just lost all interest in food. I ate when I got a headache, because only then I would realise I hadn't eaten for hours. I never threw the tablets away. Might need some of them as diet pills.  (But no, they way they messed up my mind, I will most likely never touch them.)
> 
> I'm seing my new psychiatrist in a couple of hours. Kinda nervous. He'll be in charge of my medication from now on. I hope he has some insight into MAOIs. I haven't decided if I am going to ask for 75 mg or not. I keep going back and forth in my mind about that. Hopefully he'll be a decent doctor, who can help me with the decision.
> 
> And yeah, going up to 75 will probably give me anorgasmia for a couple of months again. I really should have made more out of last weekend. Crap. Might have to go out to the pubs tonight, before starting 75 tomorrow. :grin2:0
> 
> I never did get the hypomanic state that the others talk about. But then again, my main problem has been depression, not SA. So on the "mood scale" I was so far from hypomanic/manic that I never rose to that, I suppose. I wish I did, though. :clap
> 
> Never tried half a tablet. They are not meant to be cut into two pieces, so you'll have a hard time getting exactly 52,5 mg a day. But I guess it doesn't really matter whether you're getting 50 or 55 mg, your aim is not to get the full 60 mg. You could try, I guess. Have a look at the leaflet that comes with your brand of Nardil. Unless it specifically says not to chew or divide it, it should be safe enough.


How did it go?


----------



## cigpk

Soooo I think I am definitely in the hypomanic stage now. I am excessively excited about every little thing. I think what confirmed it for me is that my 3-week summer break ends today and I start back in class this morning - I am actually excited about it??!! If that's not a sign that I'm hypomanic, then I donno what is because I normally go into a depressive state when class starts back up...

I was initially being hopeful that this was just Nardil starting to work but being that I'm only on 45 mg and just one week in, I find that hard to believe - but a boy can dream right?!

One thing I was reading about was some people have found their dosage "sweet spot" to be 37.5 or 52.5 and many have had no issues with splitting a tablet. I think I will try 52.5 before I (inevitably) move up to 60 mg. This is just because I have a HUGE fear of the constipation side effect.. I have had severe constipation in the past from medication and it really messed with my mental state. Erectile dysfunction is also a worry if I move up to 60 because me and my gf literally just started having sex this weekend and I don't want to interrupt that immediately...  But I also know that it passes eventually and I am definitely willing to sacrifice a little sex if it means I have a better mental state.

I noticed a few posts about taking a dose sublingual to lessen side effects? How does that work? I figured it would increase side effects because of increased bioavailability but I may be wrong... 

Hope everyone else is doing well!

One last note - I haven't experienced any orthostatic hypotension since making the switch from parnate to nardil - it was a regular occurrence for me on Parnate. Maybe I'm at too low of a dose to experience OH? I'm thinking about moving up to 52.5 at the end of this week.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

cigpk said:


> Soooo I think I am definitely in the hypomanic stage now. I am excessively excited about every little thing. I think what confirmed it for me is that my 3-week summer break ends today and I start back in class this morning - I am actually excited about it??!! If that's not a sign that I'm hypomanic, then I donno what is because I normally go into a depressive state when class starts back up...
> 
> I was initially being hopeful that this was just Nardil starting to work but being that I'm only on 45 mg and just one week in, I find that hard to believe - but a boy can dream right?!
> 
> One thing I was reading about was some people have found their dosage "sweet spot" to be 37.5 or 52.5 and many have had no issues with splitting a tablet. I think I will try 52.5 before I (inevitably) move up to 60 mg. This is just because I have a HUGE fear of the constipation side effect.. I have had severe constipation in the past from medication and it really messed with my mental state. Erectile dysfunction is also a worry if I move up to 60 because me and my gf literally just started having sex this weekend and I don't want to interrupt that immediately...  But I also know that it passes eventually and I am definitely willing to sacrifice a little sex if it means I have a better mental state.
> 
> I noticed a few posts about taking a dose sublingual to lessen side effects? How does that work? I figured it would increase side effects because of increased bioavailability but I may be wrong...
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing well!
> 
> One last note - I haven't experienced any orthostatic hypotension since making the switch from parnate to nardil - it was a regular occurrence for me on Parnate. Maybe I'm at too low of a dose to experience OH? I'm thinking about moving up to 52.5 at the end of this week.


I think hypomania is a little different.


----------



## cigpk

Captainmycaptain said:


> I think hypomania is a little different.


Yeah I've never experienced hypomania before so I don't know! My mood elevation may have been related to me being super excited about how awesome the game of thrones episode was because I posted immediately after watching that. I was also super caffeinated, but my mood has sort of returned to baseline.

So I think you're right.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Welcome back  where ya been?


"_Under your bed_"... :twisted

Naa but i have gotten abit more energy lately so i finally got around to watch some "streaming" movies and binge watching some series...

How is the pain thing going?
Ive started supplementing with Magnesium citrate and MSM it seems to work abit for my back pain.

Interesting to hear about how you percive the "world" less "dark and "intimidating" with the Nardil!!!

If this Parnate doesn't work out this time (lucky nr:7) im so going on Nardil!!!


----------



## watertouch

cigpk said:


> Yeah I've never experienced hypomania before so I don't know! *My mood elevation may have been related to me being super excited about how awesome the game of thrones episode was* because I posted immediately after watching that. I was also super caffeinated, but my mood has sort of returned to baseline.


:grin2:

How soon after Parnate did you start with Nardil?

It seems like Phenelzine needs MAO to work, and Parnate inhibit this enzyme strongly.

*Phenelzine: An Old Drug That May Hold Clues to The Development of New Neuroprotective Agents *


> In rats, inhibition of MAO prior to PLZ administration markedly reduces the inhibition of GABA-T activity and the elevation of brain GABA (15,21), suggesting that a metabolite produced by the action of MAO on PLZ is responsible for these actions on GABA. This metabolite has subsequently been demonstrated to be ß-phenylethylidenehydrazine (PEH)


----------



## cigpk

watertouch said:


> :grin2:
> 
> How soon after Parnate did you start with Nardil?
> 
> It seems like Phenelzine needs MAO to work, and Parnate inhibit this enzyme strongly.
> 
> *Phenelzine: An Old Drug That May Hold Clues to The Development of New Neuroprotective Agents *


I actually took my last parnate dose a week ago today (in the morning) and took my first Nardil dose a week ago (that night). This was probably risky and stupid and I don't recommend it but I had no issues whatsoever with that.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> "_Under your bed_"... :twisted
> 
> Naa but i have gotten abit more energy lately so i finally got around to watch some "streaming" movies and binge watching some series...
> 
> How is the pain thing going?
> Ive started supplementing with Magnesium citrate and MSN it seems to work abit for my back pain.
> 
> Interesting to hear about how you percive the "world" less "dark and "intimidating" with the Nardil!!!
> 
> If this Parnate doesn't work out this time (lucky nr:7) im so going on Nardil!!!


Yeah its great, I some times still have paranoia but overall I dont see people as threatening as i used to and am able to function normally and get on with my job without being 100% aware of their movements.

I bloody told you magnesium took away my leg pain almost instantly and you said it was placebo haha :grin2:
Mate ever since i started on the maggy my legs have been much much better. I was almost able to jog properly the other day.

slowly but surely, onwards and upwards.

so damn glad i never quit on nardil, its taken alot to get here aint it haha but i finally know it is helping me function as a human being much better. I'm actually able to talk to attractive women on my route and be a bit flirty with them. I got asked in for 3 cups of tea the other day >

wonder where @SFC01 and @WillComp have got to? hope they are both ok!
They should know I worry like their mother when they don't come here to see me


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Soooo I think I am definitely in the hypomanic stage now. I am excessively excited about every little thing. I think what confirmed it for me is that my 3-week summer break ends today and I start back in class this morning - I am actually excited about it??!! If that's not a sign that I'm hypomanic, then I donno what is because I normally go into a depressive state when class starts back up...
> 
> I was initially being hopeful that this was just Nardil starting to work but being that I'm only on 45 mg and just one week in, I find that hard to believe - but a boy can dream right?!
> 
> One thing I was reading about was some people have found their dosage "sweet spot" to be 37.5 or 52.5 and many have had no issues with splitting a tablet. I think I will try 52.5 before I (inevitably) move up to 60 mg. This is just because I have a HUGE fear of the constipation side effect.. I have had severe constipation in the past from medication and it really messed with my mental state. Erectile dysfunction is also a worry if I move up to 60 because me and my gf literally just started having sex this weekend and I don't want to interrupt that immediately...  But I also know that it passes eventually and I am definitely willing to sacrifice a little sex if it means I have a better mental state.
> 
> I noticed a few posts about taking a dose sublingual to lessen side effects? How does that work? I figured it would increase side effects because of increased bioavailability but I may be wrong...
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing well!
> 
> One last note - I haven't experienced any orthostatic hypotension since making the switch from parnate to nardil - it was a regular occurrence for me on Parnate. Maybe I'm at too low of a dose to experience OH? I'm thinking about moving up to 52.5 at the end of this week.


Mate it's not because you are too low it's just because nardil will still be getting into your system. I think it hit about week 3 or 4 for me, cant honestly remember.
It was me that started taking nardil sublingualy, its because my body rejected it my 2nd attempt, just after i had 3 days of feeling 100% normal and just so awesome i cant describe.
it is because of those 3 days, the first time i ever had any effect from nardil that i just had to give it a 3rd try. I did it sublingualy for a few weeks to allow it to get into my system cutting out the gut. I now just started swollowing them again a week ago and can feel them entering my system ok 
i did sublingual then biting them in half sublingual, then biting in half and swallowing, now swallowing whole.
Seems to have worked :clap:clap:clap


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I bloody told you magnesium took away my leg pain almost instantly and you said it was placebo haha :grin2:
> I got asked in for 3 cups of tea the other day >
> 
> wonder where @*SFC01* and @*WillComp* have got to? hope they are both ok!
> They should know I worry like their mother when they don't come here to see me


Haha yeah i recall that "placebo for the Win", not sure if i meant magnesium for the pain though. Its like everytime i logg in here this thread is like 3pages to read up on!!! :grin2::grin2::grin2:
Speaking of which, @*WillComp* t*hank you for asking how everyone (me included) are doing, reason i haven't replied is usually because of above mentioned reason!!! *

Ive been using Magnesium previusly for sleep, it wasn't untill my backpain started i recalled that it helped you, so i i thought whatta heck. (scared about my liver from all the Paracetamol).

I saw @*SFC01* yesterday, in this thread
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/priapism-on-ssri-sildenafil-viagra-2037737/
Thought about taggin you, but hehe i had just read the "forum rules" and hehe it could gone wrong. :grin2:

You of course took her up on the tea and let her lick your Japeye ? > 
(had no idea what that was, or what to call it in english before you and SFC01 started talking about it) :laugh:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> wonder where @*SFC01* and @*WillComp* have got to? hope they are both ok!
> They should know I worry like their mother when they don't come here to see me


Sorry mum, I have been out abusing others on the forum :grin2:

Glad to hear the old nardil starting do the trick for you. How is the new job going ?

Got my phenylpircatem thru, quite liked it actually, nice bit of focus and motivation for exercise and work - probably recommend it. Didn't get any armoddy tho but tried some moddy and it went quite well with the phenylpiracetam so will get some more next month. Found a couple sites that get both delivered next day rather than waiting for a couple of weeks.


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> You of course took her up on the tea and let her lick your Japeye ? >
> (had no idea what that was, or what to call it in english before you and SFC01 started talking about it) :laugh:


Oh no watertouch, you gonna be asking people "how is your morning wood and japs eye?" from now on.?


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> Oh no watertouch, you gonna be asking people "how is your morning wood and japs eye?" from now on.?


Im sencing this starting to become a "standing" joke from you guys... :grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Im sencing this starting to become a "standing" joke from you guys... :grin2::grin2::grin2:


We wouldnt do that to you Big A :grin2:

Did I read that you are back on the parnate ?


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> We wouldnt do that to you Big A :grin2:
> 
> Did I read that you are back on the parnate ?


Hehe, of course you guys wouldn't..... :grin2:

yeah im on day 4, kickstarted it, and yeah morning wood is gone! *FYI *:grin2:

But then again ive sleept really bad these last days, quetiapine is crappy as a sleeping pill for me
. 
Was expecting a call from my Pdoc today and felt abit nervous about that, so i thought ill take a pill of quetiapine, it should mellow me out abit...

Of course i fell asleep and missed the call, even though the phone was next to me and on highest ringing volume! :clap


----------



## cigpk

I had some moderate orthostatic hypotension on parnate but this has gone away since I switched to Nardil. I remember Dr. Gillman considering this a sign that MAO inhibition is occurring. Is this the same for Nardil in that I should start to experience OH on Nardil at a certain dose?

Sorry for all the questions dudes!


----------



## cigpk

watertouch said:


> :grin2:
> 
> How soon after Parnate did you start with Nardil?
> 
> It seems like Phenelzine needs MAO to work, and Parnate inhibit this enzyme strongly.
> 
> *Phenelzine: An Old Drug That May Hold Clues to The Development of New Neuroprotective Agents *


This may be a dumb question but does Nardil inhibit MAO as well? I think my reasoning is off but if I switched immediately without allowing MAO to build up again, would I not be giving Nardil a chance to work at all or does MAO still build back up even though I'm on Nardil? The way these MAOIs work still is a little (or way) over my head..


----------



## watertouch

cigpk said:


> I had some moderate orthostatic hypotension on parnate but this has gone away since I switched to Nardil. I remember Dr. Gillman considering this a sign that MAO inhibition is occurring. Is this the same for Nardil in that I should start to experience OH on Nardil at a certain dose?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions dudes!


If it is "hypotension"... Did you get "OH" in the morning with Parnate? (before taking the pills).
Otherwise it seems like orthostatism and a postural drop. (I get this on Parnate if i take more then 30mg at once and it starts working)

With Nardil it seems more that people get "hypotension".


----------



## watertouch

cigpk said:


> This may be a dumb question but does Nardil inhibit MAO as well? I think my reasoning is off but if I switched immediately without allowing MAO to build up again, would I not be giving Nardil a chance to work at all or does MAO still build back up even though I'm on Nardil? The way these MAOIs work still is a little (or way) over my head..


Yes but it seems like it also needs the MAO enzyme. So that article i linked to showed that Nardil only inhibits GABA-T and raise GABA lvls verry little after "pre-treatment" with Parnate...

So it might take you some 1-2 weeks maybe until Nardil can work "fully"= blocking GABA-T, and increasing GABA lvls!

Feel free to report if this happens! (that you notice an increase in effect after 1-2weeks that is)


----------



## cigpk

watertouch said:


> Yes but it seems like it also needs the MAO enzyme. So that article i linked to showed that Nardil only inhibits GABA-T and raise GABA lvls verry little after "pre-treatment" with Parnate...
> 
> So it might take you some 1-2 weeks maybe until Nardil can work "fully"= blocking GABA-T, and increasing GABA lvls!
> 
> Feel free to report if this happens!


Ahh I see. I was worried that I had made a mistake making a direct switch and that I'd have to come off the Nardil for two weeks to allow the MAO enzyme to build back up before I could resume treatment on Nardil.

And I will definitely report back! I am one week in on Nardil/one week post-parnate. So hopefully I see some of the Nardil magic in the next week!


----------



## watertouch

Wow i feel like Bond, James Bond.
It was a spider in the kitchen zink, a big one that can jump and run really fast. Didn't really know how i would be able to get it...


----------



## cigpk

watertouch said:


> Wow i feel like Bond, James Bond.
> It was a spider in the kitchen zink, a big one that can jump and run really fast. Didn't really know how i would be able to get it...


:clap 8 legs = no problemo for me. But if we're talking > 8 legs like a centipede, millipede, any other kinda pede I may not know about... it's game over. I'm brining out the big guns. And by big guns I mean hiding in the corner until I can make a run for it without getting near that mother.. :b


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> This may be a dumb question but does Nardil inhibit MAO as well? I think my reasoning is off but if I switched immediately without allowing MAO to build up again, would I not be giving Nardil a chance to work at all or does MAO still build back up even though I'm on Nardil? The way these MAOIs work still is a little (or way) over my head..


Both are MAOI, and will therefore have some of the same side effects. You have just been on Parnate, dealing with the side effects. They may not occur again for you, going straight onto Nardil. Just a theory.

It's like if you start an SSRI, and get nauseous and sick to your stomach for a couple of weeks, and then it passes. If you switch straight over to another SSRI, without several weeks/months without any medication, you will not get those side effects once more, as you are already through that phase.

It's awesome that you already feel Nardil work. Placebo or not, lasting or not - you had a few great experiences! To me, that's what gives me hope. A small glimse of what life can be like.


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> You of course took her up on the tea and let her lick your Japeye ? >
> (had no idea what that was, or what to call it in english before you and SFC01 started talking about it) :laugh:


Do I even dare ask? :O0


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> How did it go?


Thanks for asking!

It went very well, I think. I have no hope of getting a doctor who knows anything about Nardil, really. And now that I have been on Nardil for so long, and know so much by experience, I would probably just end up arguing with a doc who thinks he knows a lot about MAOIs. 

The doctor was nice. A young guy, very sympathetic. As I have no real issues with severe depression or my other medication at the moment, and I am already going to therapy with a psychologist, we devoted most of the time to Nardil. I said I have been feeling a bit more down lately, but I think that is related to me working more, trying to do more stuff, rather than Nardil having less of an effect. And that maybe that shows that 60 mg of Nardil is enough for me while just working a little bit, and taking it easy, but that I need more to be fully active again. Then again, I am worried about the sides kicking in again, after finally being better for a few weeks.

I told him about taking potassium and magnesium. I don't think he had much of an opinion on that, other than that it couldn't hurt. I liked him, because when we agreed I would go up to 75 mg he was very clear that we had to make a plan to evaluate. He asked me how much more side effects I was willing to suffer, and for how long. Then we decided that I would stick with 75 mg for 1 month, and then we'll meet again to discuss how it has been. For me it's good to make a plan like that, because if not, I will go around on a daily basis wondering whether to alter the dose again, depending on how I feel. He also made me fill out a BDI form (for depression) yesterday, and gave me another to fill out before our next appointment.

He appearently hadn't read much about me beforehand, all he knew was that I was on Nardil. Because I said something about being in the hospital, and he asked me whether that was my last hospital stay. But it wasn't, I had another hospital stay after that, which is when I started Nardil, at the time where I had my failed suicide attempt. He didn't know anything about that.

Sometimes it's good to get a new beginning, I guess. He didn't need to know all the details. If I had been there to evaluate new medication, it would have been frustrating if he hadn't read up on everything that had been tried. But in my situation atm it doesn't really matter. I feel so different than what I did before I started Nardil, so everything that's in my journal from before that is like it is about another person.

I feel rather nervous about the 75 mg. I hope I don't get terrible fatigue. I started the 75 yesterday, so this is my second day. Lots of lactic acid in my thighs this morning, but that happens from time to time. I just hope I will still be able to work, that I don't get so tired I can't function. It should be different this time, than last time I started on 75 mg. My body is way more accostumed to Nardil now. Did wake up early today, though. Every ten minutes from 4 am.

Wonder if I'll get the OH again. It's been two months since I last fell. I have gotten used to the luxury of keeping my balance now.


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> This may be a dumb question but does Nardil inhibit MAO as well? I think my reasoning is off but if I switched immediately without allowing MAO to build up again, would I not be giving Nardil a chance to work at all or does MAO still build back up even though I'm on Nardil? The way these MAOIs work still is a little (or way) over my head..


I`ve switched twice from parnate straight back to nardil on the same day and for me, nardil kicked in almost instantly, I also never got hypotension on nardil either but it stiil worked.


----------



## yourfavestoner

I also switched back immediately from Parnate to Nardil. No issues

I NEED SOMETHING FOR MY SINUSES. I am guessing there are those that have tried supposedly major contraindicated stuff like pseudophedrine and lived to tell. But I'd rather not risk it. THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOMETHING. Even some herb or some ****.

And no thanks to nasal sprays, they've never done a lick of good for me. It's keeping me up. I NEED SLEEP.

Thanks boys.


----------



## SFC01

yourfavestoner said:


> I also switched back immediately from Parnate to Nardil. No issues
> 
> I NEED SOMETHING FOR MY SINUSES. I am guessing there are those that have tried supposedly major contraindicated stuff like pseudophedrine and lived to tell. But I'd rather not risk it. THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOMETHING. Even some herb or some ****.
> 
> And no thanks to nasal sprays, they've never done a lick of good for me. It's keeping me up. I NEED SLEEP.
> 
> Thanks boys.


Well its a nasal spray but only a sea salt spray and it does ok for me when I need it, and I usually stick a twisted hand wipe right up there as well. The nasal strips can work well also. As for herbal, the only one that worked for me is olbas oil but it doesn't last long.


----------



## cigpk

Well I guess I'm not completely side effect free - ive noticed I'm sort of itchy all over.. I read about liver toxicity but seeing as how I've only been on Nardil a week, I can't imagine it has anything to do with that.. my allergies have been acting up like crazy too. Maybe it's from coming off the parnate? Who knows...

Looks like some others have had itchiness when starting Nardil too so I'm not too worried about it.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Haha yeah i recall that "placebo for the Win", not sure if i meant magnesium for the pain though. Its like everytime i logg in here this thread is like 3pages to read up on!!! :grin2::grin2::grin2:
> Speaking of which, @*WillComp* t*hank you for asking how everyone (me included) are doing, reason i haven't replied is usually because of above mentioned reason!!! *
> 
> Ive been using Magnesium previusly for sleep, it wasn't untill my backpain started i recalled that it helped you, so i i thought whatta heck. (scared about my liver from all the Paracetamol).
> 
> I saw @*SFC01* yesterday, in this thread
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/priapism-on-ssri-sildenafil-viagra-2037737/
> Thought about taggin you, but hehe i had just read the "forum rules" and hehe it could gone wrong. :grin2:
> 
> You of course took her up on the tea and let her lick your Japeye ? >
> (had no idea what that was, or what to call it in english before you and SFC01 started talking about it) :laugh:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Sorry mum, I have been out abusing others on the forum :grin2:
> 
> Glad to hear the old nardil starting do the trick for you. How is the new job going ?
> 
> Got my phenylpircatem thru, quite liked it actually, nice bit of focus and motivation for exercise and work - probably recommend it. Didn't get any armoddy tho but tried some moddy and it went quite well with the phenylpiracetam so will get some more next month. Found a couple sites that get both delivered next day rather than waiting for a couple of weeks.


could you send me the links in pm? sharing is caring >


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Hehe, of course you guys wouldn't..... :grin2:
> 
> yeah im on day 4, kickstarted it, and yeah morning wood is gone! *FYI *:grin2:
> 
> But then again ive sleept really bad these last days, quetiapine is crappy as a sleeping pill for me
> .
> Was expecting a call from my Pdoc today and felt abit nervous about that, so i thought ill take a pill of quetiapine, it should mellow me out abit...
> 
> Of course i fell asleep and missed the call, even though the phone was next to me and on highest ringing volume! :clap


Have you been having the same problems that i had with nardil? like getting it to work?
if so do it sublingually, i hear its quite common on parnate :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Well I guess I'm not completely side effect free - ive noticed I'm sort of itchy all over.. I read about liver toxicity but seeing as how I've only been on Nardil a week, I can't imagine it has anything to do with that.. my allergies have been acting up like crazy too. Maybe it's from coming off the parnate? Who knows...
> 
> Looks like some others have had itchiness when starting Nardil too so I'm not too worried about it.


The itching is a pain in the *** and last for about a week or so if i remember correctly. I have eczema so i felt like it may have been enhanced more. i've had it first time around and this time around. I took prescription antihistamine, one a day stuff and had to take two at times. ripped my skin to pieces before that though lol..it helped quite a bit. I actually take antihistamine quite regular any way but needed it much more through that nasty itching phase.

I wouldn't worry too much about the constipation, its weird in that you just dont need to poo so you don't have that feeling at all. i used to get stomach ache every 2 weeks ish and be on the toilet for an hour clearing it all out >
I still get it now randomly but with only 2 or 3 day spells.

Yeah hypotension is the nardil thing, supposed to be a good sign its going to work but i personally no longer believe it. I was quite seriously ill with it and nardil never worked once for me through all of the hell it put me through.


----------



## V1bzz

@Tandorini, your pdoc sounds pretty cool. You will probably teach him a few things haha.

I popped into my doctors the other day and tried to speak to a doctor called doctor quick, she, in the past, has always gave me a minute to talk to her. this time though boy oh boy did i instantly pick up the bad vibes from her. The doctors there must have been spoken to about my complaint.......or its just another example of the lack of care that has been shown towards me.

The NHS complaints board are waiting for me to get back to them with permission to carry out a serious investigation into the going on of my treatment there this year.....i decided to give them one more chance and hold off for a week or two giving the NHS permission to go forward, people will lose their jobs over this!
well the way she was with me is not good for them, it has pushed me closer to carrying on with prosecution investigation.
I have so much evidence, the main one being i have pretty much reported everything about what they have done in this thread. I have overwhelming evidence against them.

anyway, and @SFC01 will be happy to hear this, i got tired of this nonsense with the pnurse and write a note on a prescription form that i want her to ring me with a referral to a pdoc. one would think they would be happy to get me out of their hands. I will go flucking mental if i get no call this week. Since march i have been trying to get help and have still not had any. just take the p1ss suggestions like take pro plus!! *******s!!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @*Tandorini* , your pdoc sounds pretty cool. You will probably teach him a few things haha.
> 
> I popped into my doctors the other day and tried to speak to a doctor called doctor quick, she, in the past, has always gave me a minute to talk to her. this time though boy oh boy did i instantly pick up the bad vibes from her. The doctors there must have been spoken to about my complaint.......or its just another example of the lack of care that has been shown towards me.
> 
> The NHS complaints board are waiting for me to get back to them with permission to carry out a serious investigation into the going on of my treatment there this year.....i decided to give them one more chance and hold off for a week or two giving the NHS permission to go forward, people will lose their jobs over this!
> well the way she was with me is not good for them, it has pushed me closer to carrying on with prosecution investigation.
> I have so much evidence, the main one being i have pretty much reported everything about what they have done in this thread. I have overwhelming evidence against them.
> 
> anyway, and @*SFC01* will be happy to hear this, i got tired of this nonsense with the pnurse and write a note on a prescription form that i want her to ring me with a referral to a pdoc. one would think they would be happy to get me out of their hands. I will go flucking mental if i get no call this week. Since march i have been trying to get help and have still not had any. just take the p1ss suggestions like take pro plus!! *******s!!


Of course you need to go through with this thing! Don't worry about people losing their jobs. They don't do what they're supposed to anyway, do they? This isn't only about you, I cannot believe you are the only patient they have given **** care to. You have started this, so just give them the all clear to go ahead with the investigation. They really do deserve serious reprimands and be forced to provide quality services. If not, they can go clean toilets at McDonalds or hit the strip poles, for all we care.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> The itching is a pain in the *** and last for about a week or so if i remember correctly. I have eczema so i felt like it may have been enhanced more. i've had it first time around and this time around. I took prescription antihistamine, one a day stuff and had to take two at times. ripped my skin to pieces before that though lol..it helped quite a bit. I actually take antihistamine quite regular any way but needed it much more through that nasty itching phase.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the constipation, its weird in that you just dont need to poo so you don't have that feeling at all. i used to get stomach ache every 2 weeks ish and be on the toilet for an hour clearing it all out >
> I still get it now randomly but with only 2 or 3 day spells.
> 
> Yeah hypotension is the nardil thing, supposed to be a good sign its going to work but i personally no longer believe it. I was quite seriously ill with it and nardil never worked once for me through all of the hell it put me through.


Phew.. I was getting a little worried about the itching but it's very nice to hear that it passes!!

To everyone - Super dope that all you people are here to provide your experiences and put my mind at ease through the whole process! I was very anxious about starting Nardil but it seems like everyone has been working through similar side effects.


----------



## Tandorini

My second day on 75 mg. No big changes just yet. A bit more lactic acid, the need for an afternoon nap (while I really had the chills. I hate that, the feeling that it's my blood, or my marrow, that is made out of ice). The twitching/jerks I get are slightly worse. Was at a friends house yesterday, she knows all about this Nardil stuff, so when I needed a nap she lay next to me just playing with her phone. She kept laughing at all my jerks and twitches. Nice friend  She's used to it, though. I can't count how many naps I've taken in her bed, in her couch, or just anywhere in her house, haha. It's nice though, having a friend like that, where I don't have to go home when I get that Nardil sleepiness. I would have become quite isolated then, I think.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz;1090671225\
wonder where @[B said:


> SFC01[/B] and @*WillComp* have got to? hope they are both ok!
> They should know I worry like their mother when they don't come here to see me


Here here, I'm here mum! :lol









Hope everyone's doing well on their Nardil journey. Surprisingly my journey has been a roller coaster lately.

My sleepiness/narcolepsy has gotten really bad. I keep falling asleep everywhere. I've tried posting in the last few days and couldn't stay awake. It feels incredibly strange when you get into that state where you're asleep and awake at the same time. An hour goes by and you realize you've been dozing off, sometimes a few seconds at a time, and still dreaming, and sometimes a few minutes at a time. It's always the worst after work.

I don't wanna bring down the mood here, but I have to be honest, the last 3 days have been terrible. I've been going back in this thread and reading all my posts like it's a journal, just to see when a certain event happened and what I've been through since May, when I first started getting side effects. Does anybody else do that? :lol

I started 15mg on March 29th and slowly got up to 60. I started 60mg on May 1st and a few days later got all the horrendous side effects. Meanwhile the benefits subtly started increasing and my mood and anxiety improved eachday. I wrote in this thread that the best day so far, probably the best day of my life, was on June 2nd. To this day, June 2nd stands as the best day on Nardil (I was still on 60). Remembering back, June 2nd was a 10/10.

After that, things started going downhill until I reached a state of little or no change at maybe 6/10. In July I started 75mg, and on average seemed to improve to maybe a 7/10 for most days. Of course some days were better than others. Then on Sunday August 20th, I began feeling that nasty SA again, just like pre-Nardil. I had no idea the next day would be even worse.

Yesterday, August 21st was the worst day so far on Nardil. Down to a 2/10. It was one of the darkest days I can remember in a long time (no pun intended) and my anxiety was so bad I couldn't stop thinking about future events, upcoming meetings, how everything seemed so entirely overwhelming, and I could tell that everyone around me knew my SA and paranoia was back in full force.

Earlier in the morning I had a meeting and was full of anxiety before it even started. Got so panicky I could hardly talk and get my words out, my voice was shaking and cracking, and my whole body was shaking like a leaf, back to my old pre-Nardil self. Throughout the day I was having suicidal thoughts, fantasizing about how it would be a relief and the first time someone cared or the first time my life mattered to someone. I would never actually go through with it and I'm sure we've all had those thoughts, but I hadn't felt so dark since before Nardil.

Luckily I got the afternoon off, went to a park next to a giant lake by myself to watch the eclipse. A crowd had gathered to watch the eclipse, left disappointed that it barely got dark. Oh well, at least I got the afternoon off.

Today I felt much better. For the most part I sat quietly in my office and felt numb. It sucks that I got so low, I didn't think that was possible on Nardil. I'm wondering if it was just a bad day and we'll all go through those, but at this moment I have no idea what to think.

OMG... I got through a post.. whooohooo!!! :clap


----------



## Captainmycaptain

I am down to 15 mg of Nardil and am insanely depressed. Most of my days are spent in my bed often crying several times a day. My life is me waking up and waiting for the next day to start. I don't know if this is depression from getting off of Nardil or if Nardil was actually working. It may also have to do with life circumstances since I've been turned down for around 90 jobs. I need to figure this out soon because I'm really getting to a very dark place where I hate life and want it to be over. I feel I'm in this alone: My psychiatrist doesn't know all that much about these older anti-depressants as do most doctors. I live alone. I have no friends. The suicide support line is a joke.


----------



## WillComp

I know how u feel captain. Hang in there. I'm there for you and everyone else here is too. You probably don't want to hear this but there's gotta be a lot of ppl out there who think you're a great guy, super smart and fcukin cool personality. I think it has a lot to do with circumstances in life. Most ppl who were in your position would be a lot worse off.

Life goes by way too fast. Before you know it, in a magical sort of way, everything will be going your way. You'll be in a wonderful place for a damn long time. Just ride the wave and try not to think too much. If I were you I'd give nardil another try. We'll have good days and hellish days but overall I think we're better off on nardil, esp when u think back to how every day was a nightmare before starting nardil.

Good luck mate! Do what makes u happy and hang in there while things are going rough. You're in for an upswing soon before you know it!


----------



## Captainmycaptain

WillComp said:


> I know how u feel captain. Hang in there. I'm there for you and everyone else here is too. You probably don't want to hear this but there's gotta be a lot of ppl out there who think you're a great guy, super smart and fcukin cool personality. I think it has a lot to do with circumstances in life. Most ppl who were in your position would be a lot worse off.
> 
> Life goes by way too fast. Before you know it, in a magical sort of way, everything will be going your way. You'll be in a wonderful place for a damn long time. Just ride the wave and try not to think too much. If I were you I'd give nardil another try. We'll have good days and hellish days but overall I think we're better off on nardil, esp when u think back to how every day was a nightmare before starting nardil.
> 
> Good luck mate! Do what makes u happy and hang in there while things are going rough. You're in for an upswing soon before you know it!


Thanks. That's nice of you to say. I sometimes think about my life and it's been a lot of mental torture. No friends for years, dealing with years of depersonalization, ocd, panic attacks, almost always nervous, almost always alone, near agoraphobic, nobody in my family understands me, unemployed for several months, turned down for close to 100 jobs--a person can only take so much. I might need to go back up on Nardil, but far less than what I was taking. 90 mg a day changes me even though I feel normal. My mother told me a few days ago that I was acting like an alien from another planet while on Nardil. While taking Nardil in the past, I was called into my employers office twice, from two different employers. I remember both employers having this look of utter concern for me and saying I had changed. But this medication is so underutilized that I don't know what the hell is going on. My psychiatrists don't seem to understand what is going on. I don't know whether to listen to my psychiatrist or not. He wanted me to get off of Nardil and get on some new SSRI. But what if that doesn't work? He'll up the dose. If that doesn't work? He'll try a different SSRI. If that doesn't work? He'll suggest I supplement it with therapy. If that doesn't work? More therapy.


----------



## Tandorini

I had totally forgotten how bad my sleep was the first few months on Nardil. I fall asleep quickly, and then sleep for about 4-5 hours, then I start waking up every ten minutes, my body all restless. I had just gotten over that side effect a few weeks ago, I think. Now it's back, big time. 

Yesterday I took some Oxazepam at 2.30 am, to relax my body. Helped a little, I think. Last night I took it before going to bed, as I didn't wanna take it too close to work time. I slept from 11pm to 4 am. So restless after that. Got up at 5.30. Ready for a nap now, really (nearly 7 am), but I need to leave for work in 30 minutes, so I have to try staying awake. Hopefully being at work will distract me from sleepiness, and I won't need a nap until I get back home.


----------



## sadness

Captainmycaptain said:


> Thanks. That's nice of you to say. I sometimes think about my life and it's been a lot of mental torture. No friends for years, dealing with years of depersonalization, ocd, panic attacks, almost always nervous, almost always alone, near agoraphobic, nobody in my family understands me, unemployed for several months, turned down for close to 100 jobs--a person can only take so much. I might need to go back up on Nardil, but far less than what I was taking. 90 mg a day changes me even though I feel normal. My mother told me a few days ago that I was acting like an alien from another planet while on Nardil. While taking Nardil in the past, I was called into my employers office twice, from two different employers. I remember both employers having this look of utter concern for me and saying I had changed. But this medication is so underutilized that I don't know what the hell is going on. My psychiatrists don't seem to understand what is going on. I don't know whether to listen to my psychiatrist or not. He wanted me to get off of Nardil and get on some new SSRI. But what if that doesn't work? He'll up the dose. If that doesn't work? He'll try a different SSRI. If that doesn't work? He'll suggest I supplement it with therapy. If that doesn't work? More therapy.


My mom said I changed on Nardil as well, (for the worse).

Getting off Nardil and life circumstances are definitely contributing to why you feel horrible right now. I am finally off it. It took me forcing myself to be around my parents even though i would fight with them and get angry all the time. Being around them kept me from thinking too much, which is good. I also expressed some of my fears and hopelessness, just TELLING someone helps. Crying helps too. Just keep pushing through this. Don't listen to anyone that says "You need to get back on Nardil." Drugs can stop working. Some aren't right for people. We all have unique chemistry and circumstances. Nardil completely stopped benefiting me. If that happens, one should defiantly try something new.


----------



## cigpk

Captainmycaptain said:


> I am down to 15 mg of Nardil and am insanely depressed. Most of my days are spent in my bed often crying several times a day. My life is me waking up and waiting for the next day to start. I don't know if this is depression from getting off of Nardil or if Nardil was actually working. It may also have to do with life circumstances since I've been turned down for around 90 jobs. I need to figure this out soon because I'm really getting to a very dark place where I hate life and want it to be over. I feel I'm in this alone: My psychiatrist doesn't know all that much about these older anti-depressants as do most doctors. I live alone. I have no friends. The suicide support line is a joke.


Sorry to hear you're feeling so down dude. I know the feeling.. The scariest moments for myself have been when I realized that no amount of substances I ingested into my body could make me feel any better - didn't matter if it was alcohol, benzos, heroin, or a bottle of benadryl.. However, it was a wonderful realization for me that these feelings are TEMPORARY!!! I didn't realize this until after the fact, but I was lucky enough to have that realization before any successful fatal attempts at my own life. Depression is such a sh!tbird of a disease man - it can slowly creep up on us for years or it can blindside us like a train and remove every bit of joy we have in our lives. In my experience though, things always get better - I really have a feeling they will for you too. It seems like you have worked so hard to fight your mental health issues and I think that will pay off with some serenity for you eventually..

Like everything, *these feelings will pass*, and when my suicidal ideation and attempts passed, I couldn't believe I was feeling that way two weeks later. I was overcome with gratitude that I was still able to live and feel and _have a chance_ at enjoying life and I was so happy I never succeeded in any of my unfortunate attempts to end everything. We just gotta push through these dips (to put it lightly) in our mood and wait for the inevitable joy that life has to offer - it's there man, you just have to make sure you hang on long enough to get through this unfortunate ****ty time.

As for the medication - I can't offer much advice there since my experience with Nardil has been very brief thus far. I'm just on 45 mg and I think I've seen a little improvement in my SA and depression and I'm hopeful it will continue to improve! Hopefully your psych or some other users can offer more experience to guide you with that decision.

Last thing I'll say - I've seen you post some incredibly helpful things on this forum for others and even for myself (in relation to my OCD). You've got a lot to offer dude, don't forget that - keep up the good fight and hold out for the good times to come!! :smile2:


----------



## cigpk

Only day 11 of 45 mg Nardil..

Last night I decided to start taking Allegra (Fexofenadine, safe antihistamine) because my itching is pretty bothersome. Especially my head and the back of my neck. I have pretty bad OCD and skin picking is a symptom of that and the itching wasn't helping... Hopefully Allegra helps out and in a week or so I can quit taking it once the itching phase has passed. I've also noticed I'm a little more fatigued over the past couple of days and I'm able to drink coffee at pretty much any point in the day. I was crazy energized the first couple days of Nardil even only on 3 hours of sleep but I'm back to baseline, I even took a nap yesterday. However, I noticed a diet coke (yes, I know about Aspartame interactions ) really boosts my energy and mood late in the day.

Positives: I'm not actively avoiding my roommate which is nice.. I normally avoid all interaction with him just because I get anxious talking to him even though I've known him for over 10 years lol.. social anxiety is such a b!tch sometimes.. My anxiety is good, I had some heart palpitations the other day before speaking up in class.. But then last night I had to speak briefly in front of a group using a microphone (that kinda stuff get's me all kinds of jacked up anxiety-wise) and I can't remember experiencing any heart palpitations which is exciting. I had a little bit of anxiety but no heart palps = happy me.

Hopefully things continue to look up!!


----------



## watertouch

Tandorini said:


> Do I even dare ask? :O0


Haha no its just us boys, being boys.... (although we are all over 30):grin2:

Can't teach an old hound dog to sit! >


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> Haha no its just us boys, being boys.... (although we are all over 30):grin2:
> 
> Can't teach an old hound dog to sit! >


I guess I appreciate the secrecy. :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Only day 11 of 45 mg Nardil..
> 
> Last night I decided to start taking Allegra (Fexofenadine, safe antihistamine) because my itching is pretty bothersome. Especially my head and the back of my neck. I have pretty bad OCD and skin picking is a symptom of that and the itching wasn't helping... Hopefully Allegra helps out and in a week or so I can quit taking it once the itching phase has passed. I've also noticed I'm a little more fatigued over the past couple of days and I'm able to drink coffee at pretty much any point in the day. I was crazy energized the first couple days of Nardil even only on 3 hours of sleep but I'm back to baseline, I even took a nap yesterday. However, I noticed a diet coke (yes, I know about Aspartame interactions ) really boosts my energy and mood late in the day.
> 
> Positives: I'm not actively avoiding my roommate which is nice.. I normally avoid all interaction with him just because I get anxious talking to him even though I've known him for over 10 years lol.. social anxiety is such a b!tch sometimes.. My anxiety is good, I had some heart palpitations the other day before speaking up in class.. But then last night I had to speak briefly in front of a group using a microphone (that kinda stuff get's me all kinds of jacked up anxiety-wise) and I can't remember experiencing any heart palpitations which is exciting. I had a little bit of anxiety but no heart palps = happy me.
> 
> Hopefully things continue to look up!!


Awesome that you are experiencing effect this early!

About aspartam - I drink diet coke or similar every day. Haven't had any problems. I've also had plenty of soy sauce, cheddar, gouda, parmesan, edam, salami, bouillon cubes, kim chee, beer, cider and wine. I've had I've eaten several kinds of sausages and bacon (not sure whether that's on the list), and haven't ever had a rise in BP. I had most stuff on the list, except for blue cheese and smoked salmon, which I don't like. So I don't worry about the food interactions, really. I would probably be a little more careful while on holiday in another country, or otherwise far from emergency services. Allthough I did have alcohol and several cheeses while on vacation in Croatia.

Hm. Come to think of it - should I once again be a little careful, now that I increased my dosage?


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Have you been having the same problems that i had with nardil? like getting it to work?
> if so do it sublingually, i hear its quite common on parnate :smile2:


Hehe yes thats why its like time 7 and not time 2 or so:grin2:...
First time in 2011 i was on it i could only sleep for 3.5hours night and then a 30min nap when the afternoon fatigue kicked in... But i felt that i rather take it, then go back to how i normally feel...

Last year after Skypin with Dr. Gillman i learned how to combat a side effect i got, and "hot damn" it worked, but then my Drs withdraw the Parnate for me and refused to refill the prescribtion...

Now i finaly got it back (after being more or less prone to bedrest for a year) wieeee (borderline malepractice!)....


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> I`ve switched twice from parnate straight back to nardil on the same day and for me, nardil kicked in almost instantly, I also never got hypotension on nardil either but it stiil worked.


Of course....You are the damn Poster Boy for Nardil! :grin2:
While poor @*V1bzz* get every side effect mentioned in the book, (and then some!) >


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Of course....You are the damn Poster Boy for Nardil! :grin2:
> While poor @*V1bzz* get every side effect mentioned in the book, (and then some!) >


:grin2: a match made in heaven !

dont mention me and side effects in the same sentence mate - it winds @V1bzz up a little bit


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> dont mention me and side effects in the same sentence mate - it winds @*V1bzz* up a little bit


Hehe i know...> hehe.
Maybe i should post this so he doesn't feel that im stepping on him :grin2:


----------



## watertouch

Tandorini said:


> Hm. Come to think of it - should I once again be a little careful, now that I increased my dosage?


Maybe at breakfast or such incase you still get that BP-Spike, Otherwise its probable "ok", but don't take my word for it, (i never tried Nardil) and everyone is different and differently sensitive to Tyramine. or Histamine.

So eat smaller amounts at first and see how you react...

Keep us informed how the dose increase works out for you!!!!

Best wishes!
Alex


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: a match made in heaven !
> 
> dont mention me and side effects in the same sentence mate - it winds @V1bzz up a little bit


:crying::spank


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> Maybe at breakfast or such incase you still get that BP-Spike, Otherwise its probable "ok", but don't take my word for it, (i never tried Nardil) and everyone is different and differently sensitive to Tyramine. or Histamine.
> 
> So eat smaller amounts at first and see how you react...
> 
> Keep us informed how the dose increase works out for you!!!!
> 
> Best wishes!
> Alex


Thanks. I don't get that spike anymore, I think. Will try remembering to measure my BP one morning.

I was at 75 mg for a while in april/may as well. Don't remember what I ate and not back then. This is my second attempt at 75 mg. Hopefully I am more adjusted to the medication now, so that the increase in dose won't be as bad.

I was at work today, feeling so fatigued. I actually had to turn down people who asked me to do stuff. Well, I did work the whole time. There was enough work in the medicine room for me and another nurse to be there all day, but initially they were going to put another nurse in there with her. So I just had to tell them that if I was to do anything today, it would have to be in there, not running around the ward. People are very understanding, but I still don't like having to be like that. After work I was so tired, I barely got myself home, got into bed and slept for just over an hour before I was awoken by a phone call.

They asked me if I wanted to work a few hours over the weekend, but I declined. So got time off until Tuesday now.


----------



## watertouch

Captainmycaptain said:


> I live alone. I have no friends. The suicide support line is a joke.


Did you feel better after comming back from Japan and lived with you parents from now living alone?

Now im just some dude on the internet, but we have talked on the SAS chat several times over the years, and to be honest, you always struck me as a cool dude. (thats why i have you on my "friends" list).

Maybe you feelings are just temporary, (i get that you have been feeling bad for years). But if you manage to get a job or such, things might feel better.

Speaking of which, getting Turned down for close to 100jobs and still trying... Ive mentioned this to you before, but *you are probable one of the thoughest persons i know!!!!*
U manage to travel and work in Japan and all....
Getting that setback "evaluation" from your boss.
Setbacks from Drs....

Hang in there!!!
You are one of my main sources for inspiration!!!


----------



## V1bzz

Hey all, sorry not been around much again but I have this narcolepsy thing really bad at the moment. It's making me feel fed up because I am not being able to enjoy any free time I have. As soon as i'm mentally and physically relaxed Mr Narc turns up.

I just hate the damn feeling it gives you, it's so hard to fight, fight it and it makes you have super restless legs and just a nasty emotional feeling in your body, don't fight it and your going to be sleeping for England. It's not the same feeling as being tired, it's almost a super drunk kind of tiredness but your sober, you wobble about, look like your stoned and just are a complete mess until it either goes or you go to sleep. I have fought it many times but I just can't stand the feelings of fighting it. It is emotionally very hard work.

I gave myself a lie in this morning and got up at 0900, was fine and dandy for a couple of hrs but Mr Narc turned up about 1200. I was writing a friend on facebook and BAM my head dropped forward and I was KO for a millasecond or two.

I ended up taking a nap at about 1300 expecting it to just be an hour or two like my normal naps. I was awoken by my cat jumping on me wanting to go out, looked at the time and it was 7pm for fluck sake. Another whole day wasted!

This is the worst it has ever been for me, I guess it's because I am working again. It's scaring me because I don't want to sleep all day every time I have free time, me no likey


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Hey all, sorry not been around much again but I have this narcolepsy thing really bad at the moment. It's making me feel fed up because I am not being able to enjoy any free time I have. As soon as i'm mentally and physically relaxed Mr Narc turns up.
> 
> I just hate the damn feeling it gives you, it's so hard to fight, fight it and it makes you have super restless legs and just a nasty emotional feeling in your body, don't fight it and your going to be sleeping for England. It's not the same feeling as being tired, it's almost a super drunk kind of tiredness but your sober, you wobble about, look like your stoned and just are a complete mess until it either goes or you go to sleep. I have fought it many times but I just can't stand the feelings of fighting it. It is emotionally very hard work.
> 
> I gave myself a lie in this morning and got up at 0900, was fine and dandy for a couple of hrs but Mr Narc turned up about 1200. I was writing a friend on facebook and BAM my head dropped forward and I was KO for a millasecond or two.
> 
> I ended up taking a nap at about 1300 expecting it to just be an hour or two like my normal naps. I was awoken by my cat jumping on me wanting to go out, looked at the time and it was 7pm for fluck sake. Another whole day wasted!
> 
> This is the worst it has ever been for me, I guess it's because I am working again. It's scaring me because I don't want to sleep all day every time I have free time, me no likey


That really sucks, that you spend so much time sleeping :/ I take more naps now that I am at 75 mg, but somehow I always wake up after an hour. I force myself to get up then, promising myself that if I still feel superdrowsy in 30 minutes times, I'll allow myself to another nap.

Had a few drinks with a friend last night, like we do almost every weekend. What I didn't think of beforehand was that I had increased my dosage. Actually felt kinda drunk after having four units in four hours. Usually I just get a little chatty. Need to remember that for next weekend, that I have to be more careful.

Nardil is fukcing with my brain now. It's weird, because I get these suicidal impulses, even though I am not feeling suicidal from before. A few months ago I was suicidal and desperate, and increasing the dosage gave me increased impulses, and I felt out of control. I was in the hospital at the time. Now I don't have the desperate feeling, because I am doing a lot better. Which makes it feel so odd, that I have these urges in my head. Feels like it's not my own thoughts. Last time I tried explaining how the thoughts weren't really mine to a doctor, I was increasing Wellbutrin at the time, I was locked up in the high dependency ward for 24 hours, before spending a week in the acute psych ward. But, the difference is that I was suicidal to begin with. I don't feel the same lack of control now. But it bugs me, it does. Don't wanna think these thoughts. They don't belong in my life right now, they just appear.


----------



## V1bzz

I started to take 90 mg yesterday and Mr Narc has done one, no tiredness at all, all day and evening  zero other side effects too. will keep updated as it gets into system. So far so good!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I started to take 90 mg yesterday and Mr Narc has done one, no tiredness at all, all day and evening  zero other side effects too. will keep updated as it gets into system. So far so good!


ah cool mate, good to hear.

Is it still chipping away some of that anxiety ?

How is the training/work going ?

Will catch up via a pm soon.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> ah cool mate, good to hear.
> 
> Is it still chipping away some of that anxiety ?
> 
> How is the training/work going ?
> 
> Will catch up via a pm soon.


Hey mate, yeah i defo feel like I can handle being around people better, like the customers i deliver to. Had a few moments through out the day, someone i know at work said he had heard something he didnt want to hear, so me being me got really paranoid thinking it was about me and then i started thinking other people were whispering and then stopping when i was close. Didn't enjoy that, reminded me of what my life used to be like all day every day. Once i had got on the road though i was ok, so much more chilled today. Usually im sweating buckets highly stressed out trying to find every where, today was peaceful and uneventful. Had one moment that i can remember wen i really hot lady answered the door and i went a bit pre nardil speechless. felt really stupid with what i said.

Im pretty sure its just because of the dosage change. so so happy that i have been able to chill and chat online tonight without the narc man trying to KO me. weird how its an instant change from yesterday before i took a 6th dose around 9pm.

I'm hoping this dose will get me to where i need to be now. If I can ever go out socially and not feel like i need to drink to feel comfortable I will be a happy man


----------



## V1bzz

Trying to remember...who was it that got leg cramps at a certain dose? was it you @WillComp?

I had a terrible nights sleep last night, calves kept going into cramp, ouch!!


----------



## V1bzz

oh check this out @SFC01 @Tandorini @watertouch

So i went into the chemist today to pick up my prescription, as usual the doctor flucked it up so it wasn't in there.
I go into my doctors surgery next door and theres a pretty little thing on reception, may be about 20. I start talking to her about all the trouble i have had with my prescriptions and then went on to tell her all the trouble i have had with getting treatment or any help all year. We speak for a bit and she goes 'would you be able to hang on for a couple of minutes'... I say sure, off she goes out of the reception area, i'm waiting for about 5 minutes and she comes back and says I have made you a doctors appointment with one of the partners of the surgery, will you be able to come next wednesday, of course I say yes!! she then says how she has made the appointment slot longer so that me and the doctor have time to go through everything and tell him whats going on with me, what i need etc etc!!!

I'm thinking in my head, wow, this young girl is about 20 and she has shown me more concern and care in 5 minutes than all of the doctors have combined over this whole year.

I was really taken aback about how she realized it was all wrong and got up and had the balls to go right to a partner and get an appointment sorted for me, what an angel!!

If I get this all sorted next week I believe a gift will be in order for her, I bet she doesn't even realize how much she has just helped me out. Bless her kind little caring soul 

What a legend!


----------



## watertouch

:clap

:grin2:

You gonna see, you will probable get the most humane Dr also, that make you think what kinda quacks have ive met previusly....

Hope you all the best @*V1bzz* YOU DESERVE IT!!!


----------



## watertouch

:yay

Buy her some flowers, next time you go there. That will probable brighten her day!!! 


But it was the Nardil that made you confident to even start a conversation, or just bitter rage of Doc who failed to get the meds right???


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> :yay
> 
> Buy her some flowers, next time you go there. That will probable brighten her day!!!
> 
> But it was the Nardil that made you confident to even start a conversation, or just bitter rage of Doc who failed to get the meds right???


Ah thanks man, appreciate it :smile2:
Mostly rage and annoyance but obviously the nardil helped me to get it all out so she could help me. I would usually not say anything, especially to a little hottie like her.

Guys i have to mention, just tonight i am starting to feel the 90mg kick in already, the head and arm rushes are back :grin2: and I feel kinda great and feel like i can type at a million miles an hour, i also have the giggles and am thinking of naughty funny **** to do to people as a joke and its cracking me uop. Basically right now i feel kinda high and awesome!!!!!!!!! :grin2:

Last time I felt like this I had those 3 awesome days a few days later....pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease let it be so!!!! 
Im buzzing right now hahaha, wtf man, it's time to settle down at this time of night not feel hyper wanting to put on loud music and dance :grin2::grin2:

Nardil has to be the weirdest thing i have ever taken, giving me hell then short bursts of good times then calmness then normalness. I really hope i have finally found the dose. oh, cant remember if i said already as i can't be arsed to look but i have the tingles back in my fingers, havent had them for a while :grin2:

Hopefully no leg cramps tonight though, man that pain is just damn painful


----------



## watertouch

Morning wood on 90mg?

On a serius side, my Parnate i take some 100mg+ per day, ohh the "genital numbness" Its worse then maxdose of the SSRI-Paroxetine!!! Have not been able to reach climax for about 2 weeks! :frown2: ( On a side note ive been able to free up almost half the space on my DVR)


----------



## watertouch

What do you guys/girl.s use against constipation???

Ive tried coffee, psylliumseeds, magnesium, and bought some laxative pills at the pharmacy which doesn't work...


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> What do you guys/girl.s use against constipation???
> 
> Ive tried coffee, psylliumseeds, magnesium, and bought some laxative pills at the pharmacy which doesn't work...


is this one of those "side effects" that I hear people speak off ? :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

That's awesome, @V1bzz! I bet that the doctor you're seeing is a really nice one too, that recepcionist would have picked the best guy for you.

I'm struggling with the side effects of 75 mg. The fatigue is the worst. When I feel better I do loads of stuff, but then the next day I'm barely able to move. I had quite busy days on Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday all I could do was sleep and sit/lie on the couch. Yesterday was quite bad too. A little better today, I think. I need to be better at conserving my energy again. Remind myself that I will pay the next few days if I burn through the little energy I've got, all in one go.

My legs (from my hips down, really) feel antsy all day long now, especially in the evenings. But for some reason I jerk and twitch less.

My fitness has gone down. I get out of breath more easily now, so I am really noticing how I haven't been doing much cardio since I started Nardil in February. I will try relaxing as much as I can today too, and then go to a spin class tomorrow. 
@watertouch I don't have serious constipation problems, but when things are a little slow, I take Duphalac/Betulac, that oily, sugarly liquid you take once or twice a day. Works like a charm for me.


----------



## cigpk

watertouch said:


> What do you guys/girl.s use against constipation???
> 
> Ive tried coffee, psylliumseeds, magnesium, and bought some laxative pills at the pharmacy which doesn't work...


If my morning coffee doesn't make me take a dump then my morning smoothie will. I drink it pretty much every single morning and I'm the most regular I've ever been. Maybe it could help! It has chia seeds, oatmeal, coconut oil, almond milk, banana, kale, and blueberries. Sometimes I put a small scoop of peanut butter in there too. Lots of a fiber and I think it tastes good! If I don't have time to prepare it in the morning I just make it the night before and then throw it in the blender with some ice in the morning - very easy.

Update on Nardil - about 3 weeks on 45 mg. I feel pretty good! Almost completely devoid of side effects (knock on wood). I do notice some slight urinary hesitancy but that is it. My mood/behavior has sort of stabilized after feeling verrrry social the first two weeks. I'm considering moving up 7.5 mg to 52.5 mg tomorrow.

My thought is that 3 weeks on 45 mg is enough to let me body adjust? And since I have no side effects I figured it couldn't hurt to try a higher dose! If I don't see any changes on 52.5 I'll prob up it to 60 mg after two weeks.

Also are nardil burps and weird smelling pee a thing? Maybe it's in my head but I've noticed that too lol


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> What do you guys/girl.s use against constipation???
> 
> Ive tried coffee, psylliumseeds, magnesium, and bought some laxative pills at the pharmacy which doesn't work...


Actually, I have an old light therapy lamp which I dug out last winter just help with my sleep cycle. I would put it on within half hour of waking for 30 minutes or so and I noticed I started taking regular dumps during or straight after exposure.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> If my morning coffee doesn't make me take a dump then my morning smoothie will. I drink it pretty much every single morning and I'm the most regular I've ever been. Maybe it could help! It has chia seeds, oatmeal, coconut oil, almond milk, banana, kale, and blueberries. Sometimes I put a small scoop of peanut butter in there too. Lots of a fiber and I think it tastes good! If I don't have time to prepare it in the morning I just make it the night before and then throw it in the blender with some ice in the morning - very easy.
> 
> Update on Nardil - about 3 weeks on 45 mg. I feel pretty good! Almost completely devoid of side effects (knock on wood). I do notice some slight urinary hesitancy but that is it. My mood/behavior has sort of stabilized after feeling verrrry social the first two weeks. I'm considering moving up 7.5 mg to 52.5 mg tomorrow.
> 
> My thought is that 3 weeks on 45 mg is enough to let me body adjust? And since I have no side effects I figured it couldn't hurt to try a higher dose! If I don't see any changes on 52.5 I'll prob up it to 60 mg after two weeks.
> 
> Also are nardil burps and weird smelling pee a thing? Maybe it's in my head but I've noticed that too lol


Haha, that's not just you - Nardil pee really has a weird smell to it!

Sounds like you're quite lucky to avoid most side effects. 3 weeks on 45 mg should be enough. I increased every week up to 60 mg, before staying at 60 for a few months.

Oh, I am so jelous of you and @SFC01 who don't struggle with all the side effects. I feel like I've been battling Nardil ever since I started taking it in February. Every day is about the side effects. The fatigue is killing me. Anything is better than how I was before, there's no doubt. But I sure wish the side effects would ease up a bit.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Oh, I am so jelous of you and @*SFC01* who don't struggle with all the side effects. I feel like I've been battling Nardil ever since I started taking it in February. Every day is about the side effects. The fatigue is killing me. Anything is better than how I was before, there's no doubt. But I sure wish the side effects would ease up a bit.


If I could take some of yours and @V1bzz side effects off you I would, well yours anyway :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> If I could take some of yours and @*V1bzz* side effects off you I would, well yours anyway :grin2:


Aaaw, there really is something to that quotation beneath your posts. 

Yeah, you could try having them for a couple of weeks, giving me a break. I wonder what it would feel like. I can't really imagine anymore, how I was energy wise. It's so hard to recall.

But I have always had loads of energy. I worked a part time job throughout my three years of nursing studies, during vacations I would work a lot, pulling loads of double shifts. I would work out, and hang with friends. If there was time in my schedule, I would never see a problem squeezing another thing in there. I've always needed my sleep at night, but during day time, I could keep going from morning till bed time. Might get a little exhausted, but after a good night's sleep, I'd be fine again. I really miss that.

What I don't miss is the constant urge to move around and do things while being depressed, though. I hated the fact that I could never relax, just watching TV, without all these bad thoughts bothering me. I had to do something physical to change focus.

I am happy that I can now spend hours in the couch not HAVING to do anything to keep bad thoughts catching up. But I sure would have liked to be able to do whatever I wanted.

I am happy though, that the fatigue is only for physical things. I can spend the whole day at a friends house, as long as I don't do much more there than I do at home. I don't get more fatigue from people talking or children playing. I suppose I have to be thankful for that. I can only imagine how people with CFS live. Not even standing daylight or voices.

Oh well. I made a deal with the doc that I would stick to 75 mg for a month, and then we'll meet up again. If it's still bad, we can agree on one more month, or just give up. I don't wanna give up, just having a taste of the ****ty side effects and then weaning myself off the dose again, making it a completely useless attempt. But I don't wanna feel real bad for 6 more months either.

75 mg now is no where near as bad as the last time I tried, though. I don't get the OH all that much, and my legs are not so weak they are shaky. But last time I was at 75 mg was before the doctor's would accept the fatigue and everything to be side effects of Nardil, so I didn't really keep track, I tried ignoring the fatigue, hoping it would pass as I got better from my illness. It was first when I got up to 90 mg, and I found this forum, that I got "proof". From that point of time, the doctors finally believed me, and now no one is doubting me.

Wow. I just keep babbling on here. Had to empty the vault. 

But yeah, I'll ship the side effects to you, express service over night. Can't wait to get up tomorrow morning!  :clap


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Aaaw, there really is something to that quotation beneath your posts.


Believe me, there's not :grin2:

It is really strange how it effects different people - on all the meds I have been on I have only suffered one real bad side effect and that was on abilify, and of course the annoying sexual dysfunction you get from SSRI's, otherwise its only been minor side effects that have hardly been troubling.

but yeah, I`ll get up early for the delivery of those side effects - can I check what ones your sending over just so I can prepare ?


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> If I could take some of yours and @*V1bzz* side effects off you I would,* well yours anyway* :grin2:


Hahaha!!!

>


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Believe me, there's not :grin2:
> 
> It is really strange how it effects different people - on all the meds I have been on I have only suffered one real bad side effect and that was on abilify, and of course the annoying sexual dysfunction you get from SSRI's, otherwise its only been minor side effects that have hardly been troubling.
> 
> but yeah, I`ll get up early for the delivery of those side effects - can I check what ones your sending over just so I can prepare ?


All of them. >

Lets see...loads of overwhelming fatigue, a few litres of lactic acid in arms and legs (from thighs and down), some general muscle weakness especially in the thighs, loads of awakenings throughout the night and never sleeping more than six hours anyway, some mouth dryness, plenty of restless legs/antsy feeling and a sprinkle of hypotension. Might be some other stuff in there as well, stuff that I have gotten so used to I forget it's not normal. Like aches and pains in lots of my muscles, probably due to increased muscle tension. Enjoy!

Except for Efexor and Edronax, which kept me vomiting all day long (like having a stomach bug, it was so bad), most drugs have been kind to me side effect wise. I've gotten side effects, but they have passed. Seroquel is a little mean, though. Blurred vision in the morning persisted for a couple of months, and the constipation for several months. Urinary retention as well, the first few weeks I could never pee until the morning, so I had to be careful about drinking in the evenings. All these sides have passed now, except for rest less legs, which I still get periodically, but always related to the intake of Seroquel. I was at 4-500 mg at the time, though. Am at 200 mg now. Wellbutrin made me not want to eat - I lost 10 kilos in a few months. Prozac gave me tremors and panic attacks after succesful treatment on it for several years. All of a sudden I got side effects so bad I couldn't take them anymore. Uhm. Yeah. No, I guess drugs haven't been all that kind to me after all. But Nardil is absolutely the worst one. But also the last option, so I'm sticking with it.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> All of them. >
> 
> Lets see...loads of overwhelming fatigue, a few litres of lactic acid in arms and legs (from thighs and down), some general muscle weakness especially in the thighs, loads of awakenings throughout the night and never sleeping more than six hours anyway, some mouth dryness, plenty of restless legs/antsy feeling and a sprinkle of hypotension. Might be some other stuff in there as well, stuff that I have gotten so used to I forget it's not normal. Like aches and pains in lots of my muscles, probably due to increased muscle tension. Enjoy!


errrr, i forgot I am away for a few weeks, yeah, thats right, definitely away somewhere so it will have to wait !! :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Hahaha!!!
> 
> >


:grin2: just kidding, I love our brother from a another different mother really.


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> errrr, i forgot I am away for a few weeks, yeah, thats right, definitely away somewhere so it will have to wait !! :grin2:


You can run, but you can't hide.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> You can run, but you can't hide.


:grin2:

If i get those sides I wont be able to run anywhere


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> :grin2:
> 
> If i get those sides I wont be able to run anywhere


I know. And yeah, I might have forgotten to type a working return address on that package. So feel free to discard of it if you can.


----------



## watertouch

Tandorini said:


> I know. And yeah*, I might have forgotten to type a working return address on that package.* So feel free to discard of it if you can.


Hahaha!!! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Something random for you all, I wonder if this is just me but.....have any of you guys noticed that you can't sneeze properly?
It's a bit like inorgasmia but with a sneeze, you can't quite finish it off to get the reward LOL!

Damn spiteful Nardil!! Grrrrr


----------



## cigpk

That's an interesting one @V1bzz ... I've only been on it for 23 days but just sneezed this morning a few times. I love sneezing so I hope that doesn't happen!

*I have a question for everyone about anorgasmia though*... So I am still on 45 mg, and I have 0 sexual side effects. If anything, I find I'm orgasming very quickly and easily. I've been lasting like 4 minutes tops in bed and normally that's not the case for me.. I honestly don't really care about that though - my fear is the impending anorgasmia that I'm expecting to have once I raise my dose.

I was going to up the Nardil from 45 mg to 52.5 mg and from what I've been seeing, doses > 45 mg is where anorgasmia starts to kick in for most people. I was curious how long this typically lasts for people? Weeks... months? I know it's different for everyone but in most cases it seems to be a pretty persistent issue.

Lastly, if I do get anorgasmia, I read that some people lower back down to 45 mg for a few weeks and then go back up without any sexual side effects? Also - when people experience anorgasmia is there also difficulties getting aroused/keeping an erection?


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> *I have a question for everyone about anorgasmia though*... So I am still on 45 mg, and I have 0 sexual side effects. If anything, I find I'm orgasming very quickly and easily. I've been lasting like 4 minutes tops in bed and normally that's not the case for me.. I honestly don't really care about that though - my fear is the impending anorgasmia that I'm expecting to have once I raise my dose.
> 
> I was going to up the Nardil from 45 mg to 52.5 mg and from what I've been seeing, doses > 45 mg is where anorgasmia starts to kick in for most people. I was curious how long this typically lasts for people? Weeks... months? I know it's different for everyone but in most cases it seems to be a pretty persistent issue.
> 
> Lastly, if I do get anorgasmia, I read that some people lower back down to 45 mg for a few weeks and then go back up without any sexual side effects? Also - when people experience anorgasmia is there also difficulties getting aroused/keeping an erection?


Nardil may well have given me anorgasmia at the start but I was on full whack dose of lyrica at the time and that always gave me sexual dysfunction so it may not have I dont know. I do know however that as soon as I stopped lyrica everything went back to normal, and has always been that way since.

If you can go without knocking one out yourself then you could may be just drop down a dose a few days before you get it on with that lucky lady (or man, I dont know  ). Or just take a couple days off nardil, it shouldnt hit your mood much at all, if any.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I have a question for everyone about anorgasmia though*... So I am still on 45 mg, and I have 0 sexual side effects. If anything, I find I'm orgasming very quickly and easily. I've been lasting like 4 minutes tops in bed and normally that's not the case for me.. I honestly don't really care about that though - my fear is the impending anorgasmia that I'm expecting to have once I raise my dose.
> 
> I was going to up the Nardil from 45 mg to 52.5 mg and from what I've been seeing, doses > 45 mg is where anorgasmia starts to kick in for most people. I was curious how long this typically lasts for people? Weeks... months? I know it's different for everyone but in most cases it seems to be a pretty persistent issue.
> 
> Lastly, if I do get anorgasmia, I read that some people lower back down to 45 mg for a few weeks and then go back up without any sexual side effects? Also - when people experience anorgasmia is there also difficulties getting aroused/keeping an erection?
> 
> 
> 
> Nardil may well have given me anorgasmia at the start but I was on full whack dose of lyrica at the time and that always gave me sexual dysfunction so it may not have I dont know. I do know however that as soon as I stopped lyrica everything went back to normal, and has always been that way since.
> 
> If you can go without knocking one out yourself then you could may be just drop down a dose a few days before you get it on with that lucky lady (or man, I dont know  ). Or just take a couple days off nardil, it shouldnt hit your mood much at all, if any.
Click to expand...

I see I see. It's a lady friend  not that it matters one way or the other - whatever floats your boat and makes you happy, right? But anyway, I'll prob make the switch up in the next few days. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the anorgasmia never comes. Although that would be some next level stuff that only those like yourself are capable of  but we'll see! I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on my sexual prowess


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah first few weeks is very sexual on nardil i remember, the good ole days they were when you could leave your door unlocked or open.

Your libido will completely die after that for a while. well it did for me anyway. it's back now but i just cant do a damn thing about it lol


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> I see I see. It's a lady friend  not that it matters one way or the other - whatever floats your boat and makes you happy, right?


The man doth protest too much ?? :grin2:

but yes, do keep us updated on it - @watertouch insists on it.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah first few weeks is very sexual on nardil i remember, *the good ole days they were when you could leave your door unlocked or open.
> *


is that a Gloucestershire euphemism ? :grin2:


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> Yeah first few weeks is very sexual on nardil i remember, the good ole days they were when you could leave your door unlocked or open.
> 
> Your libido will completely die after that for a while. well it did for me anyway. it's back now but i just cant do a damn thing about it lol


Was it moving up to 60 that caused it to die for you or did it die on 45 mg? Did you ever try the whole drop down dose for a few weeks and then go back up?


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> The man doth protest too much ?? :grin2:
> 
> but yes, do keep us updated on it - @*watertouch* insists on it.


Yeah you folks better!!!!
Im gonna lower my Parnate 120mg/day down to 40, and see how that works, if not, augment it or ****....

Have managed to get "*one *****ty orgasm" in 3 weeks!!!
And im kinda OK with it, since my "libido" is totally gone!..

Girls... Yukk!!! :cry


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Girls... Yukk!!! :cry


but men, mmmm ? whats happend to you big A ? all that test ?


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> but men, mmmm ? whats happend to you big A ? all that test ?


Fricking Quetiapine for sleep and Parnate at 120mg/day...

On a plus side my porn surfing has gone down with 100%....

Whatever plus that is...


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Whatever plus that is...


well for one, those blisters will heal !


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> well for one, those blisters will heal !


Yeah but ivee think i mentioned earlier ive cleared out half of my DVR, recording device...

What should i do now when im "asexual"???


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> but men, mmmm ? whats happend to you big A ? all that test ?


Hehehe then again, why did you think i asked you and @V1bzz about morning wood....

You know you 2 are the hottest guys on this forum (after me that is)....>

Maybe im just looking at the wrong kind of pornografi....


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> You know you 2 are the hottest guys on this forum (after me that is)....>


:grin2: when god was handing hot stuff, us 3 were at the front of queue. The ladies on this forum are lucky to have us.


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: when god was handing hot stuff, us 3 were at the front of queue. The ladies on this forum are lucky to have us.


Hehe Well @Tandorini anyway. She seems to have the same "cool" humor as us!!! :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> *I have a question for everyone about anorgasmia though*... So I am still on 45 mg, and I have 0 sexual side effects. If anything, I find I'm orgasming very quickly and easily. I've been lasting like 4 minutes tops in bed and normally that's not the case for me.. I honestly don't really care about that though - my fear is the impending anorgasmia that I'm expecting to have once I raise my dose.
> 
> I was going to up the Nardil from 45 mg to 52.5 mg and from what I've been seeing, doses > 45 mg is where anorgasmia starts to kick in for most people. I was curious how long this typically lasts for people? Weeks... months? I know it's different for everyone but in most cases it seems to be a pretty persistent issue.
> 
> Lastly, if I do get anorgasmia, I read that some people lower back down to 45 mg for a few weeks and then go back up without any sexual side effects? Also - when people experience anorgasmia is there also difficulties getting aroused/keeping an erection?


I don't know when it started, as I was still in the hospital up to 60 mg. A while after I came home I noticed, however, the anorgasmia. It lasted a couple of months for me, I think. I am not completely sure, as I didn't really see the need to check on a daily basis.  But one day it was gone, and now I am like I used to be. After increasing to 75 mg two weeks ago, I have had no more sexual side effects either. Just all the other sides. 

I think I do sneeze like before, though. Allthough - now I will be thinking about it. And probably jinx it. Making me unable to sneeze from now on.


----------



## Tandorini

watertouch said:


> Hehe Well @*Tandorini* anyway. She seems to have the same "cool" humor as us!!! :grin2:


I trust the language barrier to filter away the worst of your filthy talk. :kma You might not get too many native English speakers lining up after reading this thread, tho. :evil


----------



## cigpk

*So I have a plan!! and I would like to hear what you guys think* .... and to everyone - I apologize for harping on the sexual side effects so much but I really want to try my best to avoid them if at all possible.. They plagued me while on SSRIs and Nardil has been very beneficial for me thus far so I'd like to continue without anorgasmia, or at least try my best to. My gf and I already have been going through a minor rough patch and I don't want to add sexual difficulties to that, ya know?

I have been on 45 mg for almost a full month now. I am going to increase my dose from 45 mg by a quarter of a tablet, just 3.75 mg every 3 or 4 weeks to a point where I have full remission of anxiety symptoms and depression. I am still noticing physical symptoms of social anxiety, especially before speaking up in class or in front of any groups of people (speaking in any form, I'm not talking about presentations which also give me heart palpitations). My depression is pretty good right now, OCD is meh but getting better..

That would put me at 48.75 mg for a couple of weeks and then up to 52.5 mg and if needed, eventually all the way up to 60mg. Do you all think this would be a way to minimize side effects like anorgasmia/hypotension/constipation or is this plan kinda stupid? I don't know much about how Nardil works.. I figured moving the dose up by just 3.75 mg over a drawn out period would be a good way to lessen sides but still get up to a good therapeutic dosage.

Good plan or sh!t plan? I'm open to suggestions and once again, thanks for you all for your continued advice!!


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> *So I have a plan!! and I would like to hear what you guys think* .... and to everyone - I apologize for harping on the sexual side effects so much but I really want to try my best to avoid them if at all possible.. They plagued me while on SSRIs and Nardil has been very beneficial for me thus far so I'd like to continue without anorgasmia, or at least try my best to. My gf and I already have been going through a minor rough patch and I don't want to add sexual difficulties to that, ya know?
> 
> I have been on 45 mg for almost a full month now. I am going to increase my dose from 45 mg by a quarter of a tablet, just 3.75 mg every 3 or 4 weeks to a point where I have full remission of anxiety symptoms and depression. I am still noticing physical symptoms of social anxiety, especially before speaking up in class or in front of any groups of people (speaking in any form, I'm not talking about presentations which also give me heart palpitations). My depression is pretty good right now, OCD is meh but getting better..
> 
> That would put me at 48.75 mg for a couple of weeks and then up to 52.5 mg and if needed, eventually all the way up to 60mg. Do you all think this would be a way to minimize side effects like anorgasmia/hypotension/constipation or is this plan kinda stupid? I don't know much about how Nardil works.. I figured moving the dose up by just 3.75 mg over a drawn out period would be a good way to lessen sides but still get up to a good therapeutic dosage.
> 
> Good plan or sh!t plan? I'm open to suggestions and once again, thanks for you all for your continued advice!!


I suppose the slower you go, the less side effects you will get. But you don't know whether you'd actually be getting nasty side effects at 60 mg, so it might just be a lot of work and thinking for nothing. I would have tried 60 mg, and then go back down to 45 if the sides get to bad, and then maybe try your plan.

The slower you increase, the slower you get better, too.


----------



## cigpk

Tandorini said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So I have a plan!! and I would like to hear what you guys think* .... and to everyone - I apologize for harping on the sexual side effects so much but I really want to try my best to avoid them if at all possible.. They plagued me while on SSRIs and Nardil has been very beneficial for me thus far so I'd like to continue without anorgasmia, or at least try my best to. My gf and I already have been going through a minor rough patch and I don't want to add sexual difficulties to that, ya know?
> 
> I have been on 45 mg for almost a full month now. I am going to increase my dose from 45 mg by a quarter of a tablet, just 3.75 mg every 3 or 4 weeks to a point where I have full remission of anxiety symptoms and depression. I am still noticing physical symptoms of social anxiety, especially before speaking up in class or in front of any groups of people (speaking in any form, I'm not talking about presentations which also give me heart palpitations). My depression is pretty good right now, OCD is meh but getting better..
> 
> That would put me at 48.75 mg for a couple of weeks and then up to 52.5 mg and if needed, eventually all the way up to 60mg. Do you all think this would be a way to minimize side effects like anorgasmia/hypotension/constipation or is this plan kinda stupid? I don't know much about how Nardil works.. I figured moving the dose up by just 3.75 mg over a drawn out period would be a good way to lessen sides but still get up to a good therapeutic dosage.
> 
> Good plan or sh!t plan? I'm open to suggestions and once again, thanks for you all for your continued advice!!
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the slower you go, the less side effects you will get. But you don't know whether you'd actually be getting nasty side effects at 60 mg, so it might just be a lot of work and thinking for nothing. I would have tried 60 mg, and then go back down to 45 if the sides get to bad, and then maybe try your plan.
> 
> The slower you increase, the slower you get better, too.
Click to expand...

Hmm that's a good point - I often build up this fear that "ahhhh the side effects are coming!!!" But you're right, they may not.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Hmm that's a good point - I often build up this fear that "ahhhh the side effects are coming!!!" But you're right, they may not.


I don't blame you though, after reading everything written in this thread


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> is that a Gloucestershire euphemism ? :grin2:




@watertouch .... I ran out of magnesium, figured i would be ok. WRONG!!!!! I am in flucking agony and can hardly walk again :frown2:
Work has become a real challenge physically right now. I was sweating buckets at work yesterday loading my van, my legs were killing me and I had massive fatigue burning in my lower back. The sweat was pissing off me.

I really hope tomorrow is not the same, I forgot how much pain I was in before I started taking that.
@SFC01 .... I'm going back on the maggy malate mate, should arrive tomorrow. Magnesium truly is a saviour for my nardil pains.

Oh i was listening to the radio today and they were talking about a new illness that takes about 7yrs to be recognized in patients, the symtoms are basically the side effects of Nardil lol. bloated stomach, cramps, muscle fatigue and pain etc etc etc.

Got me thinking.....


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Was it moving up to 60 that caused it to die for you or did it die on 45 mg? Did you ever try the whole drop down dose for a few weeks and then go back up?


Yeah I think 60 kills it. I dropped down to 45mg for a week and have never felt so damn horny in my life. It was so intense i went back up in dose because i couldnt handle it. I sh1t you not!!


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Fricking Quetiapine for sleep and Parnate at 120mg/day...
> 
> On a plus side my porn surfing has gone down with 100%....
> 
> Whatever plus that is...


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: when god was handing hot stuff, us 3 were at the front of queue. The ladies on this forum are lucky to have us.


At least they are blessed with photos of my stomach and @Tandorini obsessing over my poo >


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I don't know when it started, as I was still in the hospital up to 60 mg. A while after I came home I noticed, however, the anorgasmia. It lasted a couple of months for me, I think. I am not completely sure, as I didn't really see the need to check on a daily basis.  But one day it was gone, and now I am like I used to be. After increasing to 75 mg two weeks ago, I have had no more sexual side effects either. Just all the other sides.
> 
> I think I do sneeze like before, though. Allthough - now I will be thinking about it. And probably jinx it. Making me unable to sneeze from now on.




man you lot are cracking me up tonight, needed it :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Hmm that's a good point - I often build up this fear that "ahhhh the side effects are coming!!!" But you're right, they may not.


Agree with you and @Tandorini but I also can't remember anyone doing it the way you plan it. If you are in no hurry do it an let us know how things feel. Honestly though I son't think you will get away from the anorgasmia but also don't feel negative about it, just fake it like women do, you will be able to go for hrs. You will be a sex god!
Your missis is surely going to appreciate it, well maybe not so much when she's walking about like a cowboy riding a horse >


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Yeah I think 60 kills it. I dropped down to 45mg for a week and have never felt so damn horny in my life. It was so intense i went back up in dose because i couldnt handle it. I sh1t you not!!


:grin2:
Holy crap, that's encouraging!! I've always been a VERY horny guy so I can't even imagine. Right now I'm on 75.. would dropping down to 60 for a week do the same thing? Believe it or not, I've been trying relentlessly but haven't finished in 4 months. I Just bought libido max and will take it for 4 weeks while giving myself a break from trying. Then go down to 60 for a week. Then buy a tarp.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> :grin2:
> Holy crap, that's encouraging!! I've always been a VERY horny guy so I can't even imagine. Right now I'm on 75.. would dropping down to 60 for a week do the same thing? Believe it or not, I've been trying relentlessly but haven't finished in 4 months. I Just bought libido max and will take it for 4 weeks while giving myself a break from trying. Then go down to 60 for a week. Then buy a tarp.


I went from 90/75 mixture to 45, 4 days later I was cutting about like a million dogs on heat. It's really intense, like thinking about sex constantly, all day every day, everything just turns you on. Couple of days like that was cool but it was just too much in the end hahaha :grin2:


----------



## watertouch

The problem i see is that people doesn't give Nardil enough time or such...

Alot of the side effects are to do with "anticholinergic" effects. (dry mouth, constipation, urinary retention, and so on)... (from stimulating adrenergic receptors)...

An approach here would either be to "stick with it, and hopefully it gets better (with receptors downregulation and such)...

Lower the dose, *Here is the kicker *when lowering the dose it will probable take (im pulling this number from my behind) 3 weeks to adjust. One will of course feel the dose decrease *much *faster.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> I went from 90/75 mixture to 45, 4 days later I was cutting about like a million dogs on heat. It's really intense, like thinking about sex constantly, all day every day, everything just turns you on. Couple of days like that was cool but it was just too much in the end hahaha :grin2:


This is kinda funny, i get this on Parnate to, specially when i stop. It last for maybe 3 weeks or so..
My andrologist had no real clue or such about it.

But yeah that whole "libido" increase is actually better then this Testosterone therapy im on.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> This is kinda funny, i get this on Parnate to, specially when i stop. It last for maybe 3 weeks or so..
> My andrologist had no real clue or such about it.
> 
> But yeah that whole "libido" increase is actually better then this Testosterone therapy im on.


How the testosterone thingy going for you mate? I can imagine it ****s with your emotions quite a bit?


----------



## V1bzz

So.....finally got sent to get some blood tests done. get in there and it is like a ticket type system and i have 25 people ahead of me. 30 mins in a start to fall asleep huff so get up and walk out. Pissed off I head straight into A&E and ask if its possible to speak to someone about my side effects.
First I am waiting for the triage nurse to call when i am called to the desk and told i am going to see the top GP/manager of the doctors at the hospital, high up on the food chain.

Chatting to her she can see how totally frustrated I am about everything, she is honest and kind though and actually shook my hand to welcome me and say good bye which was nice. She sees that I have lost all confidence in doctors but talks me into joining a different surgery saying I need to find someone I can trust and build a relationship with. Also though she tells me I need to be working with a psychiatrist too but she wants me to get out of the system of NHS head banging and seek a private psychiatrist.
She talks with me about my surgery saying they are known as being massively under staffed and tried to explain that the reason I was going in circles is because nobody knew what to do to help me. I kinda say no **** but in a nice way lol.

I actually cried a little but stopped quickly just from the sheer frustration of finally sitting with someone who actually gives a fluck and wants to help me and is being honest!

So thats what i'm up to now, searching for a psychiatrist in my area that is female, has a sexy white shirt with lots of buttons undone, breasts nearly falling out, glasses, black hair...ok ok I've been watching too much porn! we can dream!! 

Not great having to pay 200 squids for a session but it has to be done. It has came at the right time where I am able to financially support myself for once. One i've found so far i can tell she will be wanting me to meditate and all that sort of stuff rather than medicate but i wrote her anyway. wonder if she likes ape balls?

I have found a guy in gloucester but i dunno, summin about his name makes me think he aint gunna get it.

Wish me luck


----------



## WillComp

Good luck V1bzz. I'm with you on this; it can be super frustrating when these side effects stick around longer than 6 months, especially when you can't get help. It's great that you can financially support yourself, that takes a lot of weight off the stressful situation.

The 2 main sides I'm still dealing with are the damn anorg and narco. I was actually dozing off today at work. Don't even remember drifting off. All the sudden I'd have a massive jerk and wake up. This happened about 10-20 times today. :smh

By the way, I looked up videos of narcolepsy and it's kind of funny to see these people doze off just like me. :lol.

Even dogs have it.. check this out.


----------



## cigpk

You guys are warriors... I don't think I'd be able to last more than a month or two of intense side effects like that, so major kudos to you mates.. I hope it gets easier soon!

I'm about a week into 48.75 (haha such an odd dosage) and nothing big to report. I have noticed I'm a bit more sleepy at this dose but nothing too crazy. Maca has seriously been wonderful for me. I notice I have much lower BP without it so it helps with that and kicks my energy up a little too. No changes in libido/sexual function as of yet - it's still about double what it was when I wasn't on Nardil and I'm one month in. It would be awesome if it stayed around here or maybe even dropped a little because I could stand to lose some at this point, it's almost too high. 

My gf and I are potentially splitting up (I've just been hesitant to let go  but I know it's prob the right move. We have a super long history and the idea of dating again is kind of scary...) but honestly I'm not too upset about it because I know it will all be ok. I don't know how I'd be handling this without Nardil because I can really lose my sh1t with stuff like this normally.

I may stick around 48.75 for a little bit and then move up to 52.5. The itchiness started back up again as soon as I increased the dose so I really hope that goes away soon.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Good luck V1bzz. I'm with you on this; it can be super frustrating when these side effects stick around longer than 6 months, especially when you can't get help. It's great that you can financially support yourself, that takes a lot of weight off the stressful situation.
> 
> The 2 main sides I'm still dealing with are the damn anorg and narco. I was actually dozing off today at work. Don't even remember drifting off. All the sudden I'd have a massive jerk and wake up. This happened about 10-20 times today. :smh
> 
> By the way, I looked up videos of narcolepsy and it's kind of funny to see these people doze off just like me. :lol.
> 
> Even dogs have it.. check this out.


aww bless hahaha :grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> You guys are warriors... I don't think I'd be able to last more than a month or two of intense side effects like that, so major kudos to you mates.. I hope it gets easier soon!
> 
> I'm about a week into 48.75 (haha such an odd dosage) and nothing big to report. I have noticed I'm a bit more sleepy at this dose but nothing too crazy. Maca has seriously been wonderful for me. I notice I have much lower BP without it so it helps with that and kicks my energy up a little too. No changes in libido/sexual function as of yet - it's still about double what it was when I wasn't on Nardil and I'm one month in. It would be awesome if it stayed around here or maybe even dropped a little because I could stand to lose some at this point, it's almost too high.
> 
> My gf and I are potentially splitting up (I've just been hesitant to let go  but I know it's prob the right move. We have a super long history and the idea of dating again is kind of scary...) but honestly I'm not too upset about it because I know it will all be ok. I don't know how I'd be handling this without Nardil because I can really lose my sh1t with stuff like this normally.
> 
> I may stick around 48.75 for a little bit and then move up to 52.5. The itchiness started back up again as soon as I increased the dose so I really hope that goes away soon.


Sorry to hear about the split up but it may be easier for you to get better not in a relationship.
cool that your dosing seems to be going ok., keep us updated with your progress :smile2:


----------



## WillComp

Yes, please keep us updated. It's always fun reading what others are going through and how Nardil is improving their lives. You can get great advice/tips here. And we've all become friends around here.

I honestly feel like my horrible side effects are finally subsiding. I hope I'm not jinxing myself. I still haven't tried out the anorgasmia in a while, gave myself a lengthy break, but I think the next time I try I'll finally finish (it's been almost 5 
frustrating months). I'm taking Max Libido, feeling super horny now,and will soon drop my dose till I feel like V1 did. If I experience what he did, there's gonna be some lucky girl(s) out there. LOL.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WillComp

I need some advice or any help from all you Nardil warriors or those of you who are still benefiting from the drug long term.

About 2 months ago I increased my dose from 60 to 75. 60 felt great but was a bit inconsistent. Now it's the same thing on 75. Every few weeks I get 2 - 3 consecutive days where I feel worse than before Nardil. My SA, specifically anticipatory anxiety (where I feel severely sick and am unable to stop obsessing over upcoming social events) appears with a vengeance. The anxiety is overwhelming. All the physical symptoms are back and I can barely funcion, I just feel like hiding and crying all day. My stomach keeps dropping like I'm going down on a coaster and i feel like I'm going to throw up. Just seems like a cycle and it's been going on for a couple months now. 

After those bad days pass, Nardil starts kicking in again and once again I feel amazing, a huge relief from SA, anticipatory anxiety and depression. I feel like I can conquer the world again and life doesn't seem so bad. Today was one of those days. I feel amazing, so relaxed and calm and full of energy, happiness and confidence, however I'm concerned about this ongoing pattern. 

What if I'm on one of my bad days and I have to attend a meeting or fly to a business conference across the country knowing I have to speak in front of 50 people the next day. I would die.

What would you do if u were in my shoes? Why is this happening and what can I do to get rid of the bad days? I wish every day could be peaceful. I need stability in my life now. Any advice, tips, insight will be greatly appreciated! :smile2:


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> I need some advice or any help from all you Nardil warriors or those of you who are still benefiting from the drug long term.
> 
> About 2 months ago I increased my dose from 60 to 75. 60 felt great but was a bit inconsistent. Now it's the same thing on 75. Every few weeks I get 2 - 3 consecutive days where I feel worse than before Nardil. My SA, specifically anticipatory anxiety (where I feel severely sick and am unable to stop obsessing over upcoming social events) appears with a vengeance. The anxiety is overwhelming. All the physical symptoms are back and I can barely funcion, I just feel like hiding and crying all day. My stomach keeps dropping like I'm going down on a coaster and i feel like I'm going to throw up. Just seems like a cycle and it's been going on for a couple months now.
> 
> After those bad days pass, Nardil starts kicking in again and once again I feel amazing, a huge relief from SA, anticipatory anxiety and depression. I feel like I can conquer the world again and life doesn't seem so bad. Today was one of those days. I feel amazing, so relaxed and calm and full of energy, happiness and confidence, however I'm concerned about this ongoing pattern.
> 
> What if I'm on one of my bad days and I have to attend a meeting or fly to a business conference across the country knowing I have to speak in front of 50 people the next day. I would die.
> 
> What would you do if u were in my shoes? Why is this happening and what can I do to get rid of the bad days? I wish every day could be peaceful. I need stability in my life now. Any advice, tips, insight will be greatly appreciated! :smile2:


Of course, we can all expect moods to fluctuate whether on nardil or not but may be not to the extreme that you mention above.

Try and have a think to see if these bad days correlate with anything else that may be occuring in your life, or any supplements that you may take - you may find some pattern somewhere and can fix it that way.

You could always ask the doc for some benzos for occasional use when you feel this way, may be 5-10mg diazapam, along with something like propranalol. Or you could just increase nardil dose again to 90mg or split in half and go to 82.5mg ?


----------



## cigpk

WillComp said:


> Yes, please keep us updated. It's always fun reading what others are going through and how Nardil is improving their lives. You can get great advice/tips here. And we've all become friends around here.
> 
> I honestly feel like my horrible side effects are finally subsiding. I hope I'm not jinxing myself. I still haven't tried out the anorgasmia in a while, gave myself a lengthy break, but I think the next time I try I'll finally finish (it's been almost 5
> frustrating months). I'm taking Max Libido, feeling super horny now,and will soon drop my dose till I feel like V1 did. If I experience what he did, there's gonna be some lucky girl(s) out there. LOL.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you tried dropping down by just half a tablet for a week or something? I donno if that would help at all.. just throwing that out there.

I'm on day 9 of increasing my dose by just a quarter tablet.. I can't believe that small change made a difference. Here is what I've noticed...
-SUPER itchy (especially after consuming nicotine or drinks containing aspartame)
-Early awakenings have started again.. I got up at 3:30 am yesterday and I wasn't tired AT ALL throughout the day.
-I feel super cold sometimes... I was in the shower with the heat on full blast the other day and STILL felt cold.
-Libido increased for a couple days initially but now it's back to normal
-Increased emotional responses to things (in a good way though)
-Meditation is seriously 1000x more effective. I've been doing guided meditation and I feel incredibly in touch with myself during these sessions - much more so than meditating in the past. I'm able to be present so much more.

Today marks 1 month on Nardil. It has been the most effective med I have taken and I really hope it continues to stay that way. The itchiness has reeeeeally kicked up again since increasing my dose and I really hope that goes away soon. Does anyone have any tips? I was taking Allegra for a little bit since I saw that an antihistamine has helped others in the past but it's still pretty bothersome. It's strange how it's triggered by things like nicotine though - I may have to chill out on that until the itchiness passes.


----------



## Tandorini

Itchiness is one of the few side effects I have NOT experienced (knock on wood  )

I've been nearly four weeks at 75 mg now. I feel more fatigued, but I can handle it for now. The lactic acid that was bothering me for so long didn't get any worse at 75, and I think it's mostly gone, really. And the twitching has actually decreased. I'm seeing the psychiatrist next Friday, we will then decide whether to stay at 75 or go back down to 60. I think that I might tell him I want to try 75 a while longer.

It's hard to tell, but I do think my mood has improved slightly. I wasn't very depressed at 60 mg either, but I still feel better. I have more interest in things, I think. I need more time on 75 to see if it is a lasting change, or just coincidental.

BP is bothering me, though. Even though I eat breakfast first, the 45 mg of Nardil I take in the morning causes my blood pressure to rise, making me feel my heart beat, kind of like I am having a panic attack without being scared. I measured it this morning, and it was 161/97, with a pulse of 48. It only last up to half an hour, but it still bothers me. I cannot take any medication towards that either, as I also get ortostatic hypotension during the day. I have been measuring my BP walking about, and it seems to be 85-90/60 most times. It doesn't make me feel faint though, the systolic has to drop beneath 80 for me to feel symptoms. I remember at 90 mg, my BP was 175/115 in the morning, and got down to 55/37 when I got up during the night. :O (Well, a few times it just said "error", so it might have been even lower. I would be crawling on the floor by then, not being able to see.)


----------



## cigpk

I'm moving up to 52.5 mg today! so I spent about 4 weeks at 45 mg, 10 days at 48.75 mg, and I'll prob try to stick with 52.5 mg for at least 3-4 weeks before moving up again (but hopefully I won't need to!).

Something I'm really struggling with now is ruminating over things I've said/wanted to say in social situations and heart palpitations before speaking in groups. My OCD is getting better with meditation and journaling, which have been much more effective and useful on Nardil.

I can't tell if I'm having delayed ejaculation or just trying to get off too often. I think I need to quit playing with myself







unless I'm with my lady. That's prob the only way to see how Nardil is affecting the sex life - although I'm also less worried about it now and I think I'm just gonna have to trudge through whatever happens.

One quick thing about the itching.. and I'm 100% completely theorizing out of my azz with this one so if anyone knows whether or not I'm grasping at straws with this, lemme know yo. I think taking an antihistamine is preventing my body from naturally responding to the itching (maybe there is a histamine increase with MAOIs? I donno...) and so when I quit taking one, my itching just comes back and I'm prolonging the side effect when I start taking one again. I've decided to quit taking an antihistamine to see if my body can just overcome the side effect.. although moving up to 52.5 mg may be kind of rough with the itching for a few days.

Hope everyone else is doing ok! If 52.5 if too much for me I'll prob just drop back to 45 mg for a while.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> How the testosterone thingy going for you mate? I can imagine it ****s with your emotions quite a bit?


Hi! Thanks for asking! 
*How you doin?*

The Testosterone thing kinda works "ok", but Its effect went lower after some weeks. Since one of my intress is "psychopharmacology", I kinda asked my Andrologist about "receptor downregulation".... 
And the Andro was actually totally on about this.(i did not get called delusional or such).... But he had actually noticed this himselfs amongs the patients.

But yeah "we" upped the dose... That whole "receptor downregulation" and "cycling" Testosterone he thought i should wait with.... :wink2:

not sure what to do though, its probable better to do 3 weeks on 2 weeks of or such.... And feel good for those 3 weeks... As compared to "normal"...

Quit the quetiapine. 1 week ago, also tried to quit Parnate, However i recon i was on to high dose of Parnate to quit "cold turkey".... Got "brain zaps" and the *Vivid nightmares*.... (this is 7th time on Parnate)
So i kept Parnate however at a lower dose!!!

*Aaa the wicked vivid dreams....* 
I dreamt that i was sitting in one of those "computer chairs"... But it was placed on top of the kitchen table, and i was spinning around, so i tried to lower the seat, instead i manage to adjust the back support, it went backwards.... 
So i was like lying down in the computer chair, that was spinning around on a kitchen table...
Then i fell off! I went down on the floor... Slided for like 3yards and hit a wall...After coming to a Stop, i said something like, ohh damn i fell off. 
*Wooke up!*, thought that i would have fell out of the bed, naa...

I would say stoping Parnate "cold turkey" at higher doses 120mg day have placed it one my top 3 list of medicines hard to stop....


----------



## watertouch

cigpk said:


> Something I'm really struggling with now is ruminating over things I've said/wanted to say in social situations and heart palpitations before speaking in groups. My OCD is getting better with meditation and journaling, which have been much more effective and useful on Nardil.
> 
> I can't tell if I'm having delayed ejaculation or just trying to get off too often. I think I need to quit playing with myself
> 
> One quick thing about the itching.. and I'm 100% completely theorizing out of my azz with this one so if anyone knows whether or not I'm grasping at straws with this, lemme know yo. I think taking an antihistamine is preventing my body from naturally responding to the itching (maybe there is a histamine increase with MAOIs? I donno...)


In no particular order, yes MAO increase histamine signaling, i remember myself on Parnate and after dring "hard cider" same as i always drink getting an histamine "flush" reaction getting all red over my upper arms, chest, face.... 
But yeah this could also have an effect on the itching, if i recall right you had previus problems with itching?... Hmm i would either try some strong antihistamine for it like Hydroxyzine or maybe even giving Nardil a break,* If its to bothersome that is

Rumination is a *****!*, and its usually not even "real"... Rumination is something i struggle with but doesn't really fit into this thread i guess....
About public speaking, add a betablocker like propranolol or Atenolol or metropolol or such to get the heartrate down.... After a while, or you get comfortable with it you can stop using it...

Delayed Ejacualtion, or Premature ejaculation, take your pick....:grin2:
But i say when i cum its right on time!!!


----------



## cigpk

watertouch said:


> In no particular order, yes MAO increase histamine signaling, i remember myself on Parnate and after dring "hard cider" same as i always drink getting an histamine "flush" reaction getting all red over my upper arms, chest, face....
> But yeah this could also have an effect on the itching, if i recall right you had previus problems with itching?... Hmm i would either try some strong antihistamine for it like Hydroxyzine or maybe even giving Nardil a break,* If its to bothersome that is
> 
> Rumination is a *****!*, and its usually not even "real"... Rumination is something i struggle with but doesn't really fit into this thread i guess....
> About public speaking, add a betablocker like propranolol or Atenolol or metropolol or such to get the heartrate down.... After a while, or you get comfortable with it you can stop using it...
> 
> Delayed Ejacualtion, or Premature ejaculation, take your pick....:grin2:
> But i say when i cum its right on time!!!


Haha that skit is one of the best. I still have hopes to see Dave Chapelle one day....

As for the itching... I have good news!!!! For one, I just quit using massive amounts of soap all over my body in the shower as I think this was drying out my skin. But yesterday I did a little searching on what could relieve itching and I came across something about Biotin easing dry/itchy skin. So I took some biotin yesterday and again this morning and I have had the least amount of itching since I started taking Nardil.. And that's without any antihistamines as well!!

I know Nardil can have some weird interaction with B6 and I'm not in any way saying it interacts with B7 (Biotin) but it appears that supplementing with Biotin was very beneficial for my itching!! Wooo!!!!!!!


----------



## watertouch

cigpk said:


> Haha that skit is one of the best. I still have hopes to see Dave Chapelle one day....


Hahaha Yes, im guessing he won't come to my part of the world though...
Can't blame him, but he can fill an whole arena in US and have the showmanship to keep it going for over an hour!!!

Guess one would be pretty sour in the abdominal region the day after watching him hahaha :grin2:


----------



## cigpk

Sorry to be blowing up this thread lately.. but another thing I've noticed is I don't have much of an appetite on Nardil... I've lost like 7 or 8 pounds since I began taking it a month ago.. I've always eaten super healthy and still do, but does the increased appetite or weight gain on Nardil kick in at higher dosages or something?


----------



## cigpk

Also here is my current regimen.. if any one is interested 

*First thing in the morning:*
30 mg Nardil
1G agmatine (to prevent Nardil tolerance and helping to increase blood flow before working out - I really just began taking it on Parnate and never quit taking it )
Caffeine (from Coffee)

*With breakfast*: 
22.5 mg Nardil
Maca (has helped with energy and low BP)
Ginkgo biloba (has helped with cognition)
Zinc (recommended from doc)
Biotin (helps with itching or so it seems - will likely discontinue soon)
Fish oil
Vitamin D (recommended from doc)
Arginine/Citruline complex (pretty small dose, thinking about getting rid of this)

*With dinner:*
Trazadone 50 mg
Melatonin 1.25 mg PRN
Multivitamin
Magnesium (I'm prone to constipation and this has been wonderful for that)
Calcium (not on my multivit for some reason)


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Also here is my current regimen.. if any one is interested
> 
> *First thing in the morning:*
> 30 mg Nardil
> 1G agmatine (to prevent Nardil tolerance and helping to increase blood flow before working out - I really just began taking it on Parnate and never quit taking it )
> Caffeine (from Coffee)
> 
> *With breakfast*:
> 22.5 mg Nardil
> Maca (has helped with energy and low BP)
> Ginkgo biloba (has helped with cognition)
> Zinc (recommended from doc)
> Biotin (helps with itching or so it seems - will likely discontinue soon)
> Fish oil
> Vitamin D (recommended from doc)
> Arginine/Citruline complex (pretty small dose, thinking about getting rid of this)
> 
> *With dinner:*
> Trazadone 50 mg
> Melatonin 1.25 mg PRN
> Multivitamin
> Magnesium (I'm prone to constipation and this has been wonderful for that)
> Calcium (not on my multivit for some reason)


The reason calcium is not in your multivitamin is probably that it reacts with iron supplements (which a lot of the multivitamins contain). The uptake of iron decreases with 20-60 % if taken together with calcium. Make sure you take them at least 2 or 3 hours apart, to be on the safe side.

My multivitamin doesn't contain calcium either.


----------



## Tandorini

I think I do have a slightly increased effect on my mood after going up to 75 mg. Also increased most of the side effects, but heck, I'm used to that by now. I have a bit more interest going on - can plan my meals for the next day, not just browsing the fridge whenever I feel hungry, I miss being with friends if I am alone for a whole day etc.

I have been working a few weekend shifts too. I only work 5-6 hours, as opposed to the normal shift which is 7-8 hours. I do mostly administrative work, work at the lab or medicine room, give out medications and collect blood samples and do other procedures. I don't shower the patients or help them dress and stuff like that, I feel that it takes a too big toll on my energy. I last longer if I can do less physical work. There's a lot of stuff to do, so I am never just sitting around without anything to do, which would have made me feel lazy.

Yesterday we had an emergency situation at work, a patient without a prior history of epilepsy all of a sudden went into some kind of seizure and we couldn't get him out of it. I am glad I was there when it happened, as I could again practice all my nursing skills, and get proof that even though I've been sick and off work for a long time, I haven't lost my skills. I had a foreign nurse who is new at the ward to help me, and a couple of nurse's assistants. So I lead the whole thing, calling the emergency number, giving history, coordinating the help. I was so happy when I managed to get one of the fattest i.v. needles we got in at first try, even though my hands were shaking a bit. (AND the patient was seizing, none the less.) The ambulance was there in eight minutes, but that's a heck of a long time when someone's seizing without you knowing the reason why, and that's eight minutes where you really can prepare a whole lot of things before the ambulance arrives, to give the patient as good of a chance as possible.

I feel like I'm bragging now, but really, I just wanna share how this made me feel a lot better about myself, and about going back to work. I might be fatigued and still sometimes feel down, but my colleagues and my patients can be sure that I can still be trusted, as much as before. And I guess this goes hand in hand with me getting better from depression. I can appreciate stuff like this now, while before I wouldn't have cared much. Might have found something I did wrong during the situation, and blame myself for that, instead of focusing on everything I did right.


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> I think I do have a slightly increased effect on my mood after going up to 75 mg. Also increased most of the side effects, but heck, I'm used to that by now. I have a bit more interest going on - can plan my meals for the next day, not just browsing the fridge whenever I feel hungry, I miss being with friends if I am alone for a whole day etc.
> 
> I have been working a few weekend shifts too. I only work 5-6 hours, as opposed to the normal shift which is 7-8 hours. I do mostly administrative work, work at the lab or medicine room, give out medications and collect blood samples and do other procedures. I don't shower the patients or help them dress and stuff like that, I feel that it takes a too big toll on my energy. I last longer if I can do less physical work. There's a lot of stuff to do, so I am never just sitting around without anything to do, which would have made me feel lazy.
> 
> Yesterday we had an emergency situation at work, a patient without a prior history of epilepsy all of a sudden went into some kind of seizure and we couldn't get him out of it. I am glad I was there when it happened, as I could again practice all my nursing skills, and get proof that even though I've been sick and off work for a long time, I haven't lost my skills. I had a foreign nurse who is new at the ward to help me, and a couple of nurse's assistants. So I lead the whole thing, calling the emergency number, giving history, coordinating the help. I was so happy when I managed to get one of the fattest i.v. needles we got in at first try, even though my hands were shaking a bit. (AND the patient was seizing, none the less.) The ambulance was there in eight minutes, but that's a heck of a long time when someone's seizing without you knowing the reason why, and that's eight minutes where you really can prepare a whole lot of things before the ambulance arrives, to give the patient as good of a chance as possible.
> 
> I feel like I'm bragging now, but really, I just wanna share how this made me feel a lot better about myself, and about going back to work. I might be fatigued and still sometimes feel down, but my colleagues and my patients can be sure that I can still be trusted, as much as before. And I guess this goes hand in hand with me getting better from depression. I can appreciate stuff like this now, while before I wouldn't have cared much. Might have found something I did wrong during the situation, and blame myself for that, instead of focusing on everything I did right.


 @Tandorini , great post! That sounds like an incredibly stressful situation yet you took charge and saved someone's life. I'm sure Nardil had a a lot to do with keeping you calm and confident.

Did you ever find out what happened to this person and why he had a seizure? I had another episode yesterday that was a bit disconcerting. Here I thought my sides had passed.

I was at my dad's house, got up from the couch and walked over to the counter and got dizzy again and started walking sideways. For a second I thought I was about to collapse and got nervous. Then as I grabbed onto the fridge door for support and opened it, I started shaking uncontrollably again. So I walked away out of sight from everyone else and continued to shake for 1-2 min.. and finally stopped. It was frustrating that this happened again, and if anyone ever sees this they'll make it into a big scene.

Other than that I feel fine. Thanks to @SCF01 for the response regarding the pattern I've been experiencing with extreme dips in mood and anxiety relief. Sorry I haven't posted much lately. I've had a very busy month at work and trying to get caught up in the evenings.

I'm considering changing my dose, however I don't know which way to go. Back to 60? Up to 90? I want that noticable confidence, that feeling I know it's working and want to talk to everyone. While I feel a sense of peace and reduction in SA, I no longer wanna approach people - I'm finding myself avoiding people more.


----------



## V1bzz

@Tandorini You will be happy to hear I finally took the plunge and sent off the request forms back to the NHS complaint committee today. It was better for my mental health to do so, I always felt so much anger and frustration every time I thought about the hell they have allowed me to go through this year. My legs are still a mess and very painful, I just don't post about it my troubles much any more because they have become part of my every day life. My legs are in agony daily but once in a while my lower back decides to join in the fun and give me that burning muscle fatigue pain when i'm loading my van at work. It's really embarrassing because I keep the pain inside and carry on best I can but the pain comes out in sweat and I end up being soaking wet with sweat dripping off my face.
I joined a new surgery today and am still seeking a private psychiatrist using google. It's much harder than I had hoped!
@WillComp i'm like you mate, I have times where I think damn the nardil isn't really helping that much. For example today I was registering at the new surgery and this guy came in about 55ish speaking so badly to the female receptionists that I had to ask him why he was so rude and horrible and to be more respectful, It was no big deal really, if I had to I could have thrown him out and kicked his *** so easily i wouldn't even sweat...yet after I was a shaking wobbly mess.

I have a few encounters in my job and its weird, I can nearly crash into someone on the country lanes and giggle as i'm sliding towards them and be fine and have a laugh with them about how it was a close one, but then, I will have some angry cyclists shouting at me like they do, cos they own the roads, and i'll be shouting back and my head shocks so bad, it makes me feel really weird.
I think if i ever had to defend myself I wouldn't be able to because the head shocks would kick in and I wouldnt know whats going on.
I bought some stress relief tablets from the supermarket today containing Valerian and passion flower. I know they are supposed to be really good for helping minor anxiety, will let everyone know if it benefits the nardil in any way.

Really annoys me the shaking and head shocks, it's like nardil now allows me to be more myself and stand up for myself yet my body goes into a quick shock type of thing when I do. Makes me wonder if I will ever be able to get fully better 
@watertouch I had morning chubby this morning  I have also been able to release the good stuff every couple of days but have to put a good few hours into it. I'm going to try and stop trying now for a month or two and see if I can get my energy to level out through out my body.
It's looking likely that in the next couple of weeks or less I may finally get some kind of treatment for my legs


----------



## V1bzz

> I'm considering changing my dose, however I don't know which way to go. Back to 60? Up to 90? I want that noticable confidence, that feeling I know it's working and want to talk to everyone. While I feel a sense of peace and reduction in SA, I no longer wanna approach people - I'm finding myself avoiding people more.


Give it abit more time mate to settle into your system. Have you spoke to your pdoc about the shake thing?, it troubles me when you post about it, you need to make sure its not something that is going to damage you.
I also want to go to 90, I think I may have to hit 105 or higher to get better effects on nardil. It's still far to its full potential for me, i'm putting it down to being treatment resistant. When I had them 3 awesome days where nardil was working 100%, it was shortly after I dropped from taking 90 4 days a week and 75 the rest. I want to find that special place again and I think it's up there in the higher doses some where. I really need a Pdoc!


----------



## V1bzz

> Yesterday we had an emergency situation at work, a patient without a prior history of epilepsy all of a sudden went into some kind of seizure and we couldn't get him out of it. I am glad I was there when it happened, as I could again practice all my nursing skills, and get proof that even though I've been sick and off work for a long time, I haven't lost my skills. I had a foreign nurse who is new at the ward to help me, and a couple of nurse's assistants. So I lead the whole thing, calling the emergency number, giving history, coordinating the help. I was so happy when I managed to get one of the fattest i.v. needles we got in at first try, even though my hands were shaking a bit. (AND the patient was seizing, none the less.) The ambulance was there in eight minutes, but that's a heck of a long time when someone's seizing without you knowing the reason why, and that's eight minutes where you really can prepare a whole lot of things before the ambulance arrives, to give the patient as good of a chance as possible.


This is awesome, congrats to you :nerd::grin2:
Nurse i'm wondering if you can take a look at my poop >

Do you find you get distracted a lot at 75? I do a heck of alot, its not so much a negative thing though as it's I know I have something I need to do but first I must sort my paperwork out, so i do it then I must do something else. Kinda organising frenzy, it's then 2hrs have passed and I still haven't done the first thing I must do because i've been doing many other things that need to be done.

I hope i make sense, i get really motivated (not all the time though) to get things in order but im massively distracted by then thinking of something else that should be sorted out, then another thing before actually doing the first thing i meant to do. Kinda sounds like OCD when I write it down haha


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> @*Tandorini* , great post! That sounds like an incredibly stressful situation yet you took charge and saved someone's life. I'm sure Nardil had a a lot to do with keeping you calm and confident.
> 
> Did you ever find out what happened to this person and why he had a seizure? I had another episode yesterday that was a bit disconcerting. Here I thought my sides had passed.
> 
> I was at my dad's house, got up from the couch and walked over to the counter and got dizzy again and started walking sideways. For a second I thought I was about to collapse and got nervous. Then as I grabbed onto the fridge door for support and opened it, I started shaking uncontrollably again. So I walked away out of sight from everyone else and continued to shake for 1-2 min.. and finally stopped. It was frustrating that this happened again, and if anyone ever sees this they'll make it into a big scene.
> 
> I'm considering changing my dose, however I don't know which way to go. Back to 60? Up to 90? I want that noticable confidence, that feeling I know it's working and want to talk to everyone. While I feel a sense of peace and reduction in SA, I no longer wanna approach people - I'm finding myself avoiding people more.


The patient came back a few hours later, he'd had a CT scan and been seen by a neurologist. There was no bleed or signs of stroke in his brain, so they concider it to be epilepsy, and started him on medication for that. He was still mostly unconcious coming back to my ward, as he had loads of diazepam and stuff to stop the seizure. Going to work in a few minutes, I hope he is back to his old self today. I'm gonna to adminstrative work today, but I'm gonna stop by his room to talk to him at some point during the day.

I am not so much bothered with feeling faint anymore, but actually, that day at work, a couple of hours after the emergency, I got up from the table where I had had my lunch, and I felt everything go black, so I had to hastily sit down, but my legs were already failing me, so I wasn't able to do a "controlled" action, and ended up tumbling backwards, hitting my spine on an iphone charger being plugged into the wall  ...and all my work mates were there of course, as we were on our lunch break.

I really hope you will get less of this as well, as it's really annoying, and always keeps you "on guard" for it.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> This is awesome, congrats to you :nerd::grin2:
> Nurse i'm wondering if you can take a look at my poop >
> 
> Do you find you get distracted a lot at 75? I do a heck of alot, its not so much a negative thing though as it's I know I have something I need to do but first I must sort my paperwork out, so i do it then I must do something else. Kinda organising frenzy, it's then 2hrs have passed and I still haven't done the first thing I must do because i've been doing many other things that need to be done.
> 
> I hope i make sense, i get really motivated (not all the time though) to get things in order but im massively distracted by then thinking of something else that should be sorted out, then another thing before actually doing the first thing i meant to do. Kinda sounds like OCD when I write it down haha


Haha, google Bristol stool chart, and evaluate your poop yourself! >

Nah, don't think I get distracted more than usual, really. When I am depressed it's definitely worse. I do forget stuff, and can get overwhelmed, but I guess so can anyone, and I could get that too, before I got sick. So I can't blame everything on the Nardil or the depression.

I mean, at work, I can have like 15 tasks to do, so things can get forgotten easily. I write them down, usually.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @*Tandorini* You will be happy to hear I finally took the plunge and sent off the request forms back to the NHS complaint committee today. It was better for my mental health to do so, I always felt so much anger and frustration every time I thought about the hell they have allowed me to go through this year. My legs are still a mess and very painful, I just don't post about it my troubles much any more because they have become part of my every day life. My legs are in agony daily but once in a while my lower back decides to join in the fun and give me that burning muscle fatigue pain when i'm loading my van at work. It's really embarrassing because I keep the pain inside and carry on best I can but the pain comes out in sweat and I end up being soaking wet with sweat dripping off my face.
> I joined a new surgery today and am still seeking a private psychiatrist using google. It's much harder than I had hoped!


Just a quick reply - I'm gonna be late for work. Great that sent those request forms! And it still sucks about your legs and stuff. Feel free to complain, that's what we're here for!


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Also here is my current regimen.. if any one is interested
> 
> *First thing in the morning:*
> 30 mg Nardil
> 1G agmatine (to prevent Nardil tolerance and helping to increase blood flow before working out - I really just began taking it on Parnate and never quit taking it )
> Caffeine (from Coffee)
> 
> *With breakfast*:
> 22.5 mg Nardil
> Maca (has helped with energy and low BP)
> Ginkgo biloba (has helped with cognition)
> Zinc (recommended from doc)
> Biotin (helps with itching or so it seems - will likely discontinue soon)
> Fish oil
> Vitamin D (recommended from doc)
> Arginine/Citruline complex (pretty small dose, thinking about getting rid of this)
> 
> *With dinner:*
> Trazadone 50 mg
> Melatonin 1.25 mg PRN
> Multivitamin
> Magnesium (I'm prone to constipation and this has been wonderful for that)
> Calcium (not on my multivit for some reason)


You don't get a rise in BP in the morning, after taking Nardil?

I go up to about 150-160/90-100 half an hour after taking my 45 mg in the morning. That's if I take them after breakfast. It's worse if I take them without any food in my stomach. Quite annoying really, as I start off every morning with the high BP, making me feel stressed, even though I'm not.

I take:
When I get up:
Iron supplement (from doc)

With breakfast:
45 mg Nardil
2 capsules of Omega 3

Before bed:
30 mg Nardil
200 mg Seroquel (normal tablets)
600 mg Magnesium
Potassium (don't remember how much)
Multivitamin


----------



## cigpk

Tandorini said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also here is my current regimen.. if any one is interested
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *First thing in the morning:*
> 30 mg Nardil
> 1G agmatine (to prevent Nardil tolerance and helping to increase blood flow before working out - I really just began taking it on Parnate and never quit taking it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Caffeine (from Coffee)
> 
> *With breakfast*:
> 22.5 mg Nardil
> Maca (has helped with energy and low BP)
> Ginkgo biloba (has helped with cognition)
> Zinc (recommended from doc)
> Biotin (helps with itching or so it seems - will likely discontinue soon)
> Fish oil
> Vitamin D (recommended from doc)
> Arginine/Citruline complex (pretty small dose, thinking about getting rid of this)
> 
> *With dinner:*
> Trazadone 50 mg
> Melatonin 1.25 mg PRN
> Multivitamin
> Magnesium (I'm prone to constipation and this has been wonderful for that)
> Calcium (not on my multivit for some reason)
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get a rise in BP in the morning, after taking Nardil?
> 
> I go up to about 150-160/90-100 half an hour after taking my 45 mg in the morning. That's if I take them after breakfast. It's worse if I take them without any food in my stomach. Quite annoying really, as I start off every morning with the high BP, making me feel stressed, even though I'm not.
> 
> I take:
> When I get up:
> Iron supplement (from doc)
> 
> With breakfast:
> 45 mg Nardil
> 2 capsules of Omega 3
> 
> Before bed:
> 30 mg Nardil
> 200 mg Seroquel (normal tablets)
> 600 mg Magnesium
> Potassium (don't remember how much)
> Multivitamin
Click to expand...

Nice! I always like seeing others supplement/vitamin routines - I find them interesting for some odd reason.

As for the Nardil in the morning - it may cause a slight rise in BP (especially since I drink coffee right away) but it's not noticeable enough to cause anxiety or for me to even notice. I think taking Agmatine with my Nardil dose helps with any potential BP rises (just a theory) because Agmatine has been known to temporarily lower my BP when I take.

Does taking nardil at night not cause any sleep issues for you? I hadn't really considered that.


----------



## SFC01

My current regime -

AM - 45mg Nardil,
PM - 30mg Nardil and 50mg Amitriptyline (for pain)

Nice and simple eh !!

Although in the last week I have added 800mg of sulbutiamine and 800mg pramiracetam just to see if it will make my job seem at least slightly interesting !! So far definite jump in energy and motivation, and here's one for all you sufferers - libido increase (may be the sulb doing that). May replace pramiracetam with phenylpiracetam when I get paid, as I have tried that before and it is quite stimulating when you need it.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> I take:
> When I get up:
> Iron supplement (from doc)
> 
> With breakfast:
> 45 mg Nardil
> 2 capsules of Omega 3
> 
> Before bed:
> 30 mg Nardil
> 200 mg Seroquel (normal tablets)
> 600 mg Magnesium
> Potassium (don't remember how much)
> Multivitamin


Hi Tandorini, can i ask why you take seroquel ? I used to take it quite a bit for sleep, only 50-75mg, and after initially thinking it had some mood benefits as well with nardil, I decided to stop it as I didnt really need it for sleep anymore. I felt brighter, more energetic etc and now and again when I do need some help with sleep, if i take it for a few days I can feel its kind of blunting effect. Just my experience that I thought I would share.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> My current regime -
> 
> AM - 45mg Nardil,
> PM - 30mg Nardil and 50mg Amitriptyline (for pain)
> 
> Nice and simple eh !!
> 
> Although in the last week I have added 800mg of sulbutiamine and 800mg pramiracetam just to see if it will make my job seem at least slightly interesting !! So far definite jump in energy and motivation, and here's one for all you sufferers - libido increase (may be the sulb doing that). May replace pramiracetam with phenylpiracetam when I get paid, as I have tried that before and it is quite stimulating when you need it.


Did you ever notice any sleep issues by dosing Nardil at night? Also, did you ever try Agmatine? I thought I remembered you saying something about it but I'm curious if you noticed any differences on/off of it?

I really like the idea of simple vitamin routines and I will likely decrease my supplements as I get more used to Nardil. I haven't felt any changes to my libido as of yet but I know that some of the supplements I already take (Maca, ginkgo) are supposed to boost libido so I'm kind of hesitant to drop them...


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Nice! I always like seeing others supplement/vitamin routines - I find them interesting for some odd reason.
> 
> As for the Nardil in the morning - it may cause a slight rise in BP (especially since I drink coffee right away) but it's not noticeable enough to cause anxiety or for me to even notice. I think taking Agmatine with my Nardil dose helps with any potential BP rises (just a theory) because Agmatine has been known to temporarily lower my BP when I take.
> 
> Does taking nardil at night not cause any sleep issues for you? I hadn't really considered that.


I'm not really sure about that, I started taking Nardil while in the hospital, and they always gave it to me like that, in the morning and evening. So I just continued the same routine when I was let out. I fall asleep quite easily now, but I do wake up very early.

I can't take them all at once in the morning, as that would cause my BP to sky rocket. And taking medicine during day time never works for me, I always forget. Morning and evening will fit into my routine, but remembering to take stuff in the middle of the day is always hard.


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Hi Tandorini, can i ask why you take seroquel ? I used to take it quite a bit for sleep, only 50-75mg, and after initially thinking it had some mood benefits as well with nardil, I decided to stop it as I didnt really need it for sleep anymore. I felt brighter, more energetic etc and now and again when I do need some help with sleep, if i take it for a few days I can feel its kind of blunting effect. Just my experience that I thought I would share.


I started taking Seroquel for both my depression, but increasing the dose for my sleep. It's now clear that it doesn't do much for my depression, but what it does for me is make me have peaceful nights. Like when I am really depressed, and awake a lot of the night, my thoughts don't wander like they might do without Seroquel. I am more peaceful. While I was in the hospital, and they wanted to start med on Nardil, they wanted to take me off Seroqeul first. It was a true nightmare. In the end I just said that they could forget about the Nardil, I wanted my Seroquel back. They listenened to me and let me have both. When they took away Seroquel I felt ill, really like I was coming down with something. And I couldn't sleep, and I could never have some peaceful rest either. It was terrible.

200 mg might sound like a lot, but I metabolize Seroquel really fast. On 400 mg my blood showed the value 28, while the reference window is between 50 and 700. So at 200 mg it'll be even less.


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> Did you ever notice any sleep issues by dosing Nardil at night? Also, did you ever try Agmatine? I thought I remembered you saying something about it but I'm curious if you noticed any differences on/off of it?
> 
> I really like the idea of simple vitamin routines and I will likely decrease my supplements as I get more used to Nardil. I haven't felt any changes to my libido as of yet but I know that some of the supplements I already take (Maca, ginkgo) are supposed to boost libido so I'm kind of hesitant to drop them...


No, i take the nardil and amitriptyline mid afternoon (50mg amitriptyline doesnt sedate me in the slightest). Oh and I forgot, I also take magnesium malate daily.

Yeah I tried agmatine and it didnt do anything, if anything it was detrimental to my mood which was a shame as I had high hopes for it. I binned it in the end. I think, with the consistency of the nardil antidepressant and other beneficial effects, I get, I find it easy to spot any supplements or meds that dont mix right.

So far amitriptyline is the best addition to augment the benefits of nardil with, by quite some way.


----------



## WillComp

My current regime:

AM: Wake up, use the bathroom, then take 30mg Nardil. Half an hour later, eat breakfast, then immediately take 1 salt tablet (1 Gm). 

10-20 min later I take 1 Atenolol (25mg). If I have a major anxiety provoking day coming up, for example a stressful morning meeting, I'll take 1 Klonopin (.5 prn) immediately after the Atenolol. On average I take four .5 klonopins a week.

After lunch I take 1 fish oil tablet. 

PM: 1 or 2 hrs before bed I take 45 mg Nardil. I don't like the idea of laying down after taking medication. I feel sitting up or standing up gives the medicine an easier path through the body.


----------



## cigpk

Itching is gone!!! Woooo!!! 

But now I got bloating reeeeally bad. It sets in right after lunch and doesn't let up no matter what I do!! Should I take a probiotic? Activated charcoal?

I'm also only sleeping 5-6 hours a night which has been kinda ****ty but bearable


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Itching is gone!!! Woooo!!!
> 
> But now I got bloating reeeeally bad. It sets in right after lunch and doesn't let up no matter what I do!! Should I take a probiotic? Activated charcoal?
> 
> I'm also only sleeping 5-6 hours a night which has been kinda ****ty but bearable


You will grow to love the early wake ups. Try and enjoy the sounds of the morning while you can. Nice and peaceful with the birds singing and getting to see the sun come up. I really loved that stage of nardil. Don't have it any more :frown2:

Yes I tried agmatine for a few months, initially i'm sure it lifted my mood but realised it was prob placebo once I stopped taking it and felt no different...also didn't help Nardil like I had hoped it would.

Unfortunately welcome to the man boobs pot belly gang, you are officially now a member. Nothing got rid of it for me, I tried everything, charcoal, bloated tablets, water retention...so many, all failed.

My morning dose is x 45mg, 1 x multi vit, 2 x Magnesium malate for pain. (0630)
Afternoon 30mg, x 2 magnesium malate (1300-1400)


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Itching is gone!!! Woooo!!!
> 
> But now I got bloating reeeeally bad. It sets in right after lunch and doesn't let up no matter what I do!! Should I take a probiotic? Activated charcoal?
> 
> I'm also only sleeping 5-6 hours a night which has been kinda ****ty but bearable
> 
> 
> 
> You will grow to love the early wake ups. Try and enjoy the sounds of the morning while you can. Nice and peaceful with the birds singing and getting to see the sun come up. I really loved that stage of nardil. Don't have it any more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I tried agmatine for a few months, initially i'm sure it lifted my mood but realised it was prob placebo once I stopped taking it and felt no different...also didn't help Nardil like I had hoped it would.
> 
> Unfortunately welcome to the man boobs pot belly gang, you are officially now a member. Nothing got rid of it for me, I tried everything, charcoal, bloated tablets, water retention...so many, all failed.
> 
> My morning dose is x 45mg, 1 x multi vit, 2 x Magnesium malate for pain. (0630)
> Afternoon 30mg, x 2 magnesium malate (1300-1400)
Click to expand...

In another thread was a post about a low carb diet - may give it a try if nothing changes.

Other thing I'm noticing - reeeally bad muscle soreness in my back and legs. It's most noticeable when I'm sleeping. I've noticed laying on my side helps but it kept me up all night last night (( I really thought my slow progression to 52.5 would lessen side effects but I think they're finally here.. I don't have many but the ones I do have are pretty annoying.

Bloating
Muscle pain
Early waking/insomnia


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> Bloating
> Muscle pain
> Early waking/insomnia


As @V1bzz says, you may begin to enjoy the early awakening. I get bouts of it now and again and I love it, you wake up full exictement and motivation. It got to a point where i was waking every 30 mins or so from 1AM ish to check the clock to see if it was a reasonable time to get up - I decided 4AM was reasonable!

Haven't had one of those bouts for a while now and I miss them to be honest.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bloating
> Muscle pain
> Early waking/insomnia
> 
> 
> 
> As @V1bzz says, you may begin to enjoy the early awakening. I get bouts of it now and again and I love it, you wake up full exictement and motivation. It got to a point where i was waking every 30 mins or so from 1AM ish to check the clock to see if it was a reasonable time to get up - I decided 4AM was reasonable!
> 
> Haven't had one of those bouts for a while now and I miss them to be honest.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just get worried that the lack of sleep is going to catch up to me but I guess I should just enjoy it for now! My current regimen has been to take like 1.25 of melatonin with my trazodone to help fall asleep and then when I wake up 3.5-4 hours later, I take another 1.25 mg and I end up sleeping about 6-7 hours on a good night. I'm thinking about just taking 2.5 to get a solid 6 hours and call it a night.

Or should I just cut out the melatonin all together?

All in all though - things are gravy right now on 52.5. I have spinal canal stenosis and foraminal stenosis at my C4 vertebrae and my back has been acting up a little. I may have to look into amitriptyline at some point for pain. Im having to change psychiatrists right now though so I have to find someone knowledgeable on MAOIs and that hasn't been easy...


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> Yeah I just get worried that the lack of sleep is going to catch up to me but I guess I should just enjoy it for now! My current regimen has been to take like 1.25 of melatonin with my trazodone to help fall asleep and then when I wake up 3.5-4 hours later, I take another 1.25 mg and I end up sleeping about 6-7 hours on a good night. I'm thinking about just taking 2.5 to get a solid 6 hours and call it a night.
> 
> Or should I just cut out the melatonin all together?
> 
> All in all though - things are gravy right now on 52.5. I have spinal canal stenosis and foraminal stenosis at my C4 vertebrae and my back has been acting up a little. I may have to look into amitriptyline at some point for pain. Im having to change psychiatrists right now though so I have to find someone knowledgeable on MAOIs and that hasn't been easy...


I have never liked melatonin as it gives me vivid dreams which I guess means I wake up a lot and it also definitely lowers my mood, which I think is a known side effect of it.

As for the pain, yeah try and get some amitriptyline - it works wonders for my elbow pain at 50mg, and you may have heard me mention, it goes great with nardil.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I just get worried that the lack of sleep is going to catch up to me but I guess I should just enjoy it for now! My current regimen has been to take like 1.25 of melatonin with my trazodone to help fall asleep and then when I wake up 3.5-4 hours later, I take another 1.25 mg and I end up sleeping about 6-7 hours on a good night. I'm thinking about just taking 2.5 to get a solid 6 hours and call it a night.
> 
> Or should I just cut out the melatonin all together?
> 
> All in all though - things are gravy right now on 52.5. I have spinal canal stenosis and foraminal stenosis at my C4 vertebrae and my back has been acting up a little. I may have to look into amitriptyline at some point for pain. Im having to change psychiatrists right now though so I have to find someone knowledgeable on MAOIs and that hasn't been easy...
> 
> 
> 
> I have never liked melatonin as it gives me vivid dreams which I guess means I wake up a lot and it also definitely lowers my mood, which I think is a known side effect of it.
> 
> As for the pain, yeah try and get some amitriptyline - it works wonders for my elbow pain at 50mg, and you may have heard me mention, it goes great with nardil.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wonder if melatonin has been affecting my mood. I just get very anxious about sleep and/or insomnia and I HATE laying in bed without knowing im going to be able to fall asleep. I used to have pretty severe OCD rituals revolving around my sleep/getting to sleep and while I've overcome those, I still get very agitated and nervous when I'm laying in bed and can't sleep. This is why I'm so quick to take melatonin because I know it may help me fall asleep - but it may be detrimental too 

Also - I've noticed along with my muscle soreness, I'm getting some muscle fatigue. Lol it makes sexual activity difficult because I'm having delayed ejaculation (which will hopefully lessen) and I get tired so easily!

I guess if worse comes to worse I'll just go back to 48.75 mg


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> I just get very anxious about sleep and/or insomnia and I HATE laying in bed without knowing im going to be able to fall asleep. I used to have pretty severe OCD rituals revolving around my sleep/getting to sleep and while I've overcome those, I still get very agitated and nervous when I'm laying in bed and can't sleep.


Sorry cos I keep banging on about it on threads but meditation is great for that bedtime anxiety - you need to practice during the day when not sleepy but once you get used to lying down, focusing on your breath, then after a few weeks you can then try it before bed or in bed when you are feeling agitated. My ****ed elbow stopped me sleeping in my usual position so sometimes i get agitated and uncomfortable - then I just focus on the breath and before I know it I`m asleep. It has solid evidence backing it up for insomnia as well.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I just get worried that the lack of sleep is going to catch up to me but I guess I should just enjoy it for now! My current regimen has been to take like 1.25 of melatonin with my trazodone to help fall asleep and then when I wake up 3.5-4 hours later, I take another 1.25 mg and I end up sleeping about 6-7 hours on a good night. I'm thinking about just taking 2.5 to get a solid 6 hours and call it a night.
> 
> Or should I just cut out the melatonin all together?
> 
> All in all though - things are gravy right now on 52.5. I have spinal canal stenosis and foraminal stenosis at my C4 vertebrae and my back has been acting up a little. I may have to look into amitriptyline at some point for pain. Im having to change psychiatrists right now though so I have to find someone knowledgeable on MAOIs and that hasn't been easy...
> 
> 
> 
> I have never liked melatonin as it gives me vivid dreams which I guess means I wake up a lot and it also definitely lowers my mood, which I think is a known side effect of it.
> 
> As for the pain, yeah try and get some amitriptyline - it works wonders for my elbow pain at 50mg, and you may have heard me mention, it goes great with nardil.
Click to expand...




SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just get very anxious about sleep and/or insomnia and I HATE laying in bed without knowing im going to be able to fall asleep. I used to have pretty severe OCD rituals revolving around my sleep/getting to sleep and while I've overcome those, I still get very agitated and nervous when I'm laying in bed and can't sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry cos I keep banging on about it on threads but meditation is great for that bedtime anxiety - you need to practice during the day when not sleepy but once you get used to lying down, focusing on your breath, then after a few weeks you can then try it before bed or in bed when you are feeling agitated. My ****ed elbow stopped me sleeping in my usual position so sometimes i get agitated and uncomfortable - then I just focus on the breath and before I know it I`m asleep. It has solid evidence backing it up for insomnia as well.
Click to expand...

Oh hell yea! I actually am on a meditation roll! I've done it 8 of the past 9 days! I haven't been trying to use it to fall asleep though.. that's a wonderful idea


----------



## SFC01

here you go, study on pubmed re mindfulness and insomnia treatment (it has plenty of other benefits as well)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24512477

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25142566

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26390335


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> As @V1bzz says, you may begin to enjoy the early awakening. I get bouts of it now and again and I love it, you wake up full exictement and motivation. It got to a point where i was waking every 30 mins or so from 1AM ish to check the clock to see if it was a reasonable time to get up - I decided 4AM was reasonable!
> 
> Haven't had one of those bouts for a while now and I miss them to be honest.


Me too mate, was the best phase of nardil by far for me. I miss it! I remember staying up for 2 nights and three days just because it felt like such a waste of time to sleep lol


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Yeah I wonder if melatonin has been affecting my mood. I just get very anxious about sleep and/or insomnia and I HATE laying in bed without knowing im going to be able to fall asleep. I used to have pretty severe OCD rituals revolving around my sleep/getting to sleep and while I've overcome those, I still get very agitated and nervous when I'm laying in bed and can't sleep. This is why I'm so quick to take melatonin because I know it may help me fall asleep - but it may be detrimental too


How about adding some Seroquel? I take Seroquel every night. Sometimes I can't sleep, or I wake up during the night, but it makes me relaxed. I don't lay in bed worrying. I tried without Seroquel for a week or so, and I couldn't get peaceful rest in bed, all I did was laying awake worrying. Then back on Seroquel - and laying awake doesn't bother me much. Besides - it usually gets me fast asleep, I don't lay awake much.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> How about adding some Seroquel? I take Seroquel every night. Sometimes I can't sleep, or I wake up during the night, but it makes me relaxed. I don't lay in bed worrying. I tried without Seroquel for a week or so, and I couldn't get peaceful rest in bed, all I did was laying awake worrying. Then back on Seroquel - and laying awake doesn't bother me much. Besides - it usually gets me fast asleep, I don't lay awake much.


Yes, seroquel is very good for sleep and despite what I said earlier about blunting mood a little, if I have issues with insomnia again I woud go back to using it as it seems to be the most effective sleep med for me everytime.

Also, although the 50mg amitriptyline doesn't sedate me, I have noticed that the early awakenings I used to get every now and again havent occured really since I have been on ami.

There is always a SAD lamp as well to try which can help with sleep patterns - I have one which I use in the Winter, not for SAD, but I just close my eyes and put my face right in it - makes it feel like you are lying on a hot beach in the summer with sun blazing down - its great on a dark, cold, rainy monday morning January.


----------



## cigpk

4:30 am and I'm wide awake!! Haha but I actually did not take any melatonin last night - I was out by 9:30 and woke up maybe once or twice. I feel much better this morning though. Also - I had zero muscle soreness in the middle of the night.. I don't know if that is related to melatonin or not but it was very noticeable the night before.

@Tandorini I actually used to take Seroquel when I was on Parnate but switched to trazadone because seroquel was having an effect on my mood. I guess if the trazodone quits doing the job I could switch back but I'm encouraged by last nights result of only using traz!


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> 4:30 am and I'm wide awake!! Haha but I actually did not take any melatonin last night - I was out by 9:30 and woke up maybe once or twice. I feel much better this morning though. Also - I had zero muscle soreness in the middle of the night.. I don't know if that is related to melatonin or not but it was very noticeable the night before.
> 
> @Tandorini I actually used to take Seroquel when I was on Parnate but switched to trazadone because seroquel was having an effect on my mood. I guess if the trazodone quits doing the job I could switch back but I'm encouraged by last nights result of only using traz!


Never heard of Trazodone before, I googled it and see that it's not available here where I live. Amitryptiline is though, and know it's great for neurological pain.

For me, Nardil and Seroquel works for now. Finally!


----------



## V1bzz

You guys should seriously try a product if you can find one that has hop strobile, valerian and passion flower. I find it to be very calming. It's helping me a great .
@SFC01 get some from tesco's mate. its their tesco brand stress relief tablets near stuff like pro plus, vitamins etc.
I have better more composed stress free days since I started taking it. I stopped for a day and had the most angry stressful day ever. Nardil has never helped me in that respect. Helps just enough really for me to now be working again


----------



## WillComp

It's pretty cool @V1bzz and @SFC01 and I are all steady on 75! Who else here is on 75?

Anyone still dealing w/ side effects? What about anorgasmia? Last week was the first time since May. :O But surprisingly it wasn't euphoric. I think it was the Max Libido that helped me. Now I'm finished with the bottle and again it's 100% impossible.

I wanna stick with 75 for the time being just to let that dosage settle into my system for a while, but it's not perfect. Maybe it's not supposed to be.

So let's say I want my libido and a fully functional 
:evil back! Even just for a week. Whaddayu say I do?


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> It's pretty cool @*V1bzz* and @*SFC01* and I are all steady on 75! Who else here is on 75?
> 
> Anyone still dealing w/ side effects? What about anorgasmia? Last week was the first time since May. :O But surprisingly it wasn't euphoric. I think it was the Max Libido that helped me. Now I'm finished with the bottle and again it's 100% impossible.
> 
> I wanna stick with 75 for the time being just to let that dosage settle into my system for a while, but it's not perfect. Maybe it's not supposed to be.
> 
> So let's say I want my libido and a fully functional
> :evil back! Even just for a week. Whaddayu say I do?


I'm at 75 mg now, been at it for 5 weeks I think. Anorgasmia only lasted the first couple of months after starting Nardil I think, I didn't get it again after increasing to 75 mg. But got all the other side effects. Fatigue, muscle weakness, twitching (actually better at 75 than 60 mg), constipation, disturbed sleep. Probably more too, I dunno. Yeah, some ortostatic hypotension, but not as bad as when I initially started Nardil. High BP in the morning after taking my morning dose of 45 mg.

I just mentioned in another thread that I haven't been drunk on Nardil. This far I've had a maximum of 5-6 units spread over an entire afternoon/evening, staying in full control the whole way. On Friday however, a friend of mine and I went out to the pubs after first having six units at home. Worst idea ever. Met up with some friends, had loads to drink. Got a major hangover. It wasn't until the night after that I remembered that I was having draft beer and everything (which is one of the few things on the food list I've had total respect for). I have no idea whether I got hypertension or not, as I hardly even remember going to bed at around 5 am that morning. So...definitely gonna think twice before doing that again. I mean, I was fine and everything, but it's safe to say I didn't have control over anything. We had some junk food on our way home too, no idea what was in it.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> You guys should seriously try a product if you can find one that has hop strobile, valerian and passion flower. I find it to be very calming. It's helping me a great .
> 
> @*SFC01* get some from tesco's mate. its their tesco brand stress relief tablets near stuff like pro plus, vitamins etc.
> I have better more composed stress free days since I started taking it. I stopped for a day and had the most angry stressful day ever. Nardil has never helped me in that respect. Helps just enough really for me to now be working again


Thanks for tip mate, but I have tried valerian and passion flower quite a few times before nardil and while there was an effect on me maybe once or twice after the first couple of doses, it was only a minor effect. Dont really need help in that area anymore thank god.

Both of those do have some science backing them up though so glad they are doing the trick for you.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Thanks for tip mate, but I have tried valerian and passion flower quite a few times before nardil and while there was an effect on me maybe once or twice after the first couple of doses, it was only a minor effect. Dont really need help in that area anymore thank god.
> 
> Both of those do have some science backing them up though so glad they are doing the trick for you.


The nardil defo helps with the anxiety aspect of things, no where near perfect but enough to be able to work again. I still have moments still where I get confused and get really paranoid.
Other than that I feel completely flat, stressed out easily and getting super mad. I had contemplations of driving my van into a tree when I was working on Saturday. That was the day I decided not to take the valerian and passion.

Not really sure whats going on with me at the moment, I hope its just another Nardil phase and I will start to feel happier.

I'm finally closer to securing myself a good doctor and a good psychiatrist who will work as a team to help me.
My first appointment with the pco will be the 26th october if i'm able to square things away with the new doctor.
When I joined the surgery I was very clear with what I needed, a doctor who will work with my psychiatrist, a doctor i can connect with.
I popped into the surgery today to talk to the receptionists again making sure I get the right doctor, i told them I don't want to see a doctor that im going to be fighting with every step of the way to get better, i need someone who will work with the pdoc.

They are nice ladies on reception especially since the first time I went in there was a guy being disgustingly rude to them who I had a big go at. So they know me as the guy that told the dick head to shut the fluck up and speak with respect to other people. I was honestly close to dragging him out by his comb over lol >

so anyhoo, the receptionists chose a good doctor for me saying she is really nice and caring. All i need her to do now is fax over a referral and my details and everything will be good to go.
I finally can see a light at the end of the tunnel. The Pdoc is going to cost me £180 each consultation so hoping I can get everything sorted medically the first time around and then just see her maybe every 6 months or so.

Well thats where i'm at. Hope everyone else is doing better :smile2:


----------



## cigpk

Today is day 10 of 52.5mg. Definitely feeling more fatigued in the afternoon - I think hypotension is the main reason for that. Also I slept until 6 am today and didn't feel the normal "wide awake jump out of bed feeling" that I've gotten used to over the past couple of weeks. I've also noticed my morning workouts the past couple of days have been less intense/I'm tiring more easily.

No bloating today which has been nice - I basically cut out all carbs in my dinners and that has helped I think. Overall, my OCD and anxiety have been wel controlled. Still engaging in some cyclical obsessive thought patterns but less ritualistic behaviors.


----------



## WillComp

I can't go on with this anorgasmia much longer. Is it true that dropping the dose for 1 week will get rid of anorgasmia? I'm at 75, so should I drop to 60 or 45?


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I can't go on with this anorgasmia much longer. Is it true that dropping the dose for 1 week will get rid of anorgasmia? I'm at 75, so should I drop to 60 or 45?


I wouldn't mess with your dose mate if its working ok for you.
However, im at 75 too and my anorgasmia is starting to go so i think it will for you too.
I don't think nardil has ever worked for me as good as you though.

when i was on 75/90 i dropped to 45 and after 3 or 4 days i was the horniest i have ever been in my life!
still think the anargasmia was there but your just so damn horny that you will go at it for days :grin2:>:grin2:

I couldn't handle any more after about a week and upped my dose to 60 lol, Nardil was zero working for me when I did that though.


----------



## cigpk

Does anyone ever have success on just 45 mg Nardil? I feel like 60 is the minimum dose everyone uses


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> Does anyone ever have success on just 45 mg Nardil? I feel like 60 is the minimum dose everyone uses


Nardil kicked in for me at 45mg, just may be not as consistent as it is on 75mg , sometimes I like to go for the full whack just for the sake of it  and as I wasn't getting any side effects I thought why not increase. Maybe if I had stuck at 45mg, things would still be good.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone ever have success on just 45 mg Nardil? I feel like 60 is the minimum dose everyone uses
> 
> 
> 
> Nardil kicked in for me at 45mg, just may be not as consistent as it is on 75mg , sometimes I like to go for the full whack just for the sake of it  and as I wasn't getting any side effects I thought why not increase. Maybe if I had stuck at 45mg, things would still be good.
Click to expand...

Yeah I gotcha, I was doing so good with side effects until I moved up to 52.5 

I'm considering dropping back to a once in the morning dose of 45 mg just to see how I do.

Bloating and insomnia are becoming a major pain. Plus I'm feeling fatigue and can't overcome it no matter how much coffee I drink. Maca is helping out as much as I thought it would..

My worry is I won't feel as good as I did on 45 mg the first time around.


----------



## cigpk

I've decided to stick with the 52.5 mg for at least 4 weeks. Then depending on how I feel/if I have no side effects, I may try 60 mg. 

I have been reading a lot about Nardil dosing requiring (for many people, obviously not everyone) a titration up to 60mg minimum to get sufficient MAO inhibition, then staying there for a minimum of 4 weeks before lowering down to the whole "maintenance" dose. What's with this whole maintenance dose thing? I think if I was to drop my dose down, I would keep it to 45 mg at least. 30 mg or 15 mg just doesn't seem like it would be enough? The whole MAO inhibition thing is above me, I don't really understand it.


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> I've decided to stick with the 52.5 mg for at least 4 weeks. Then depending on how I feel/if I have no side effects, I may try 60 mg.
> 
> I have been reading a lot about Nardil dosing requiring (for many people, obviously not everyone) a titration up to 60mg minimum to get sufficient MAO inhibition, then staying there for a minimum of 4 weeks before lowering down to the whole "maintenance" dose. What's with this whole maintenance dose thing? I think if I was to drop my dose down, I would keep it to 45 mg at least. 30 mg or 15 mg just doesn't seem like it would be enough? The whole MAO inhibition thing is above me, I don't really understand it.


I`m not sure that maintenance dose thing is considered the best way of doing things these days although its still on the leaflet. I have never come across anyone on the internet that has tried this but I guess it would be interesting to see if it would work. I think it was Shah Odud on this board who used take 60/75mg every other day and it still worked for him, and I can see how that would still do the trick.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> cigpk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've decided to stick with the 52.5 mg for at least 4 weeks. Then depending on how I feel/if I have no side effects, I may try 60 mg.
> 
> I have been reading a lot about Nardil dosing requiring (for many people, obviously not everyone) a titration up to 60mg minimum to get sufficient MAO inhibition, then staying there for a minimum of 4 weeks before lowering down to the whole "maintenance" dose. What's with this whole maintenance dose thing? I think if I was to drop my dose down, I would keep it to 45 mg at least. 30 mg or 15 mg just doesn't seem like it would be enough? The whole MAO inhibition thing is above me, I don't really understand it.
> 
> 
> 
> I`m not sure that maintenance dose thing is considered the best way of doing things these days although its still on the leaflet. I have never come across anyone on the internet that has tried this but I guess it would be interesting to see if it would work. I think it was Shah Odud on this board who used take 60/75mg every other day and it still worked for him, and I can see how that would still do the trick.
Click to expand...

How's that sulbutiamine treating you?


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> How's that sulbutiamine treating you?


Its going ok, although I`m about to stop it for a week or so and then start again as apparently best to cycle it. I can feel that its lost some of its benefit with the regards to energy uplift. The boost in libido and some motivation/focus is still there.

All in all, I like it as it mixes well with nardil (as in no negative aspect).

Essentially, I have just been promoted at work, but with **** all increase in money or moving up company grade level ie they have dumped a load of senior level **** on me without saying thanks :smile2: - there will be regular meetings with ****ing regional VPs etc and this is a huge company I`m talking about. So this is why I`m experimenting with sulb and racetams etc for some good focus for work. So this month I`m going to alternate during the week with modafinil, phenylpiracetam and sulb - tried these before, all work, and none have any negative impact on nardil.


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, guess what is coming back after using my light therapy lamp ?? That early morning buzz  been waking at 4.30AM wanting to get up.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, guess what is coming back after using my light therapy lamp ?? That early morning buzz  been waking at 4.30AM wanting to get up.


aw man send us a link to one. sharing is caring!!! really really want that phase back in my life!!! >


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> aw man send us a link to one. sharing is caring!!! really really want that phase back in my life!!! >


here you go mate, this is what I have

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Redstone-S...&qid=1506625523&sr=1-6&keywords=light+therapy


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> V1bzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> aw man send us a link to one. sharing is caring!!! really really want that phase back in my life!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here you go mate, this is what I have
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Redstone-S...&qid=1506625523&sr=1-6&keywords=light+therapy
Click to expand...

How do these things work? And congrats on the promotion!


----------



## Tandorini

I'm so sick and tired of Nardil. Of being fatigued, of not being able to work full days, and having to plan for naps during daytime. Of not being able to work out, of having to plan my days so that I don't exhaust myself. Got the morning off, starting work at 3pm. Would have liked to work out first. Or just go around downtown, looking at the shops. Or fix the squeky sound the pedals on my bike have begun to make. But I need to relax, so that I will be fit for work this evening. I hate this. 

I've been at 75 mg since August 21 now. My friend commented yesterday that I seem to be getting worse, really. Energy wise. And I get so cold, sometimes. Having to snuggle up under blankets with my jacket on. I also developed huge cravings for sugar and stuff after I started 75 mg. My physical shape is going down, which I fear will turn into a vicious spiral now. I was really fit when the fatigue started, which made me able to a lot of stuff even though I was exhausted. Now I get out of breath faster, making everything harder. I am still in good shape, but I notice that it's getting worse. And right now there's not much I can do about it.

I went to work yesterday morning, with lactic acid in my thighs I biked there (only about a mile). When I got there I felt really ill, with cold sweating and dizziness. It only lasted for 20 minutes or so, but I feared I would have to go back home, but really not being able to do that until I felt a little better either. I don't know what caused me to feel like that. Maybe low blood pressure, I dunno.

Enough is enough. I can't handle all the side effects anymore. I have to continue to take Nardil, I am still not well enough to go off it. This IS after all better than several hospital stays and severe depression. But maybe I should go down to 60 mg, or even 45.

I was with the pdoc just a week ago, agreeing to stay at 75 mg until the next visit in mid November, but now I have changed my mind. This way I'll never go back to work full time. I am scared to feel worse depression wise, but I know I was doing fine at 60 mg too. I felt a small boost after maybe 3 weeks on 75 mg, but I think the fatigue has a negative impact on my mood as well. 

Then again - I have suffered through 5-6 weeks at 75 mg now. If I go back to 60 mg now, I probably won't ever try 75 again. I really wanted to go up to 90 mg to see how it would make me feel. But I just can't bear the side effects any longer. If I go back to 60 mg now, I will just have to start all over with increased side effects if I ever wanna try 75 mg again.

But the more I think about it, the more I feel that it is right to go back down to 60 mg now. Yesterday I told myself I should probably think about it for about a week, and if I still was sure, I could go down. But this morning I just couldn't stand the idea of taking the full dose, I feel like those little red pills are harming me now. 

So. What do you guys reckon? The fatigue seems to be getting worse, not better. Can I still trust it to be side effects or Nardil? Or is there something else going on? Anyone else experiencing "late side effects" like that?


----------



## SFC01

@Tandorini, could try ditching all the supplements you take, unless some they are for specific health issues. I know you dont want to ditch the seroquel, but could you maybe slowly lower it 175-150-125 etc down to about 100mg?

Maybe ask your doc about adding something like modafinil, wellbutrin or a NE TCA like ami or nort?

What kind of magnesium do you take ?


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> @*Tandorini* , could try ditching all the supplements you take, unless some they are for specific health issues. I know you dont want to ditch the seroquel, but could you maybe slowly lower it 175-150-125 etc down to about 100mg?
> 
> Maybe ask your doc about adding something like modafinil, wellbutrin or a NE TCA like ami or nort?
> 
> What kind of magnesium do you take ?


You reckon the supplements are doing any damage? I take magnesium and potassium, I told the pdoc that, he was okay with it. Took blood samples, showing I'm still within normal range.

I have serious doubts the doc will prescribe anything to help with a side effect that may be helped by reducing the dose..He's never had a patient on Nardil before, but he works at a large clinic and may seek advice from collegaes.

What would Wellbutrin do? According to the literature it's not supposed to be combined with Nardil because of the risk of serotonin syndrome (or whatever it's called in English), and I again doubt the doc will dare do that. Besides, I used Wellbutrin last year, and lost like 10 kilos in a few months. I just lost all interest in food. By all means, I could lose the 10 kilos again, as I have gained a few since starting Nardil (not because of the Nardil, but because I got better and had my appetite back, I think) 

The Magnesiumtablets are these:

https://www.komplettapotek.no/produ...mineraler/nycoplus-magnesium-tabletter-300mg#

These are the potassium ones:

https://www.komplettapotek.no/produ...taminer-og-mineraler/kaleorid-depottab-750mg#

Both are non-prescription, but are often prescribed by doctors anyway, I give them to a lot of my patients.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> You reckon the supplements are doing any damage? .


I really dont know, it was just a suggestion as I have supplemented before and it had a detrimental effect with nardil but I cant see how magnesium or potassium would be an issue to be honest. I cant make out from that link what kind of magnesium it is, as there are a few different types that have different benefits or better absorption rate. I take magnesium malate and that noticeably increases energy during my work outs.

I have read that nardil can actually lower norepinephreine after a while and low NE can cause pain and fatigue, thats why I suggested wellbutrin or a NE TCA (wellbutrin wont cause serotnin syndrome) but understand it will be hard to get alongside a MAOI, so maybe nortriptyline or amit?

I`m not sure what else suggest really, may be try a low dose of Vit B complex and zinc for a bit


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> I really dont know, it was just a suggestion as I have supplemented before and it had a detrimental effect with nardil but I cant see how magnesium or potassium would be an issue to be honest. I cant make out from that link what kind of magnesium it is, as there are a few different types that have different benefits or better absorption rate. I take magnesium malate and that noticeably increases energy during my work outs.
> 
> I have read that nardil can actually lower norepinephreine after a while and low NE can cause pain and fatigue, thats why I suggested wellbutrin or a NE TCA (wellbutrin wont cause serotnin syndrome) but understand it will be hard to get alongside a MAOI, so maybe nortriptyline or amit?
> 
> I`m not sure what else suggest really, may be try a low dose of Vit B complex and zinc for a bit


In the Norwegian thingy where all drugs are listed, and where you can see their properties, contraindications and stuff, all those you mention say that they should not be combined with MAOIs. Whether that's a real danger, or just in theory, I don't know. But I am quite sure my doctor would never prescribe anything that specifically says not to combine with Nardil. Don't really feel like adding anything either. What is NE TCA anyway?

How long would it take for Nardil to lower norepinephreine? My fatigue kicked in right away, really. But it has become worse, I guess.

Nah, I'm really edging more towards lowering the Nardil dose. Have only taken 60 mg today. I was fine at 60 mg too. But I have had a slight effect on my mood from increasing to 75 mg. But only slightly, and right now I feel like it's not worth it.

I was at work this afternoon. I usually am able to work at my own pace, but things are more unpredictable at the ward on a weekend night where there's only a few of the normal staff around, the rest are people working weekends here and there. The other nurse knows that I am supposed to take it easy, but then we had a patient who died in the early afternoon, so there was really not much time to relax. I felt I had to help as much as possible, being the most senior staff there that night. Locating the doctor on call, ringing next of kins, get the patient his final bed bath and a lot of documentation. While all this was going on the phone was ringing, the dish washer was broken so we had to use the one at the next ward, a patient fell and was bleeding everywhere, etc etc. Who am I to say "hey guys? I need to put my legs up for a bit. You mind keeping it down?" :grin2:

I am glad I am handling the situations, and that I can help, but today I was so exhausted even before the shift started, so it was a living hell, really. Got tomorrow off, though. I wish I could say I am gonna sleep all day, but I can't even sleep anymore. I sleep for 3 or 4 hours straight, then I wake up feeling sooo restless I toss and turn and sleep for ten minutes at a time until I can finally get up. I've tried increasing the Seroquel, it didn't work. I tried Oxazepam, no effect. I tried zopiclone, and no effect.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> In the Norwegian thingy where all drugs are listed, and where you can see their properties, contraindications and stuff, all those you mention say that they should not be combined with MAOIs. Whether that's a real danger, or just in theory, I don't know. But I am quite sure my doctor would never prescribe anything that specifically says not to combine with Nardil. Don't really feel like adding anything either. What is NE TCA anyway?
> 
> How long would it take for Nardil to lower norepinephreine? My fatigue kicked in right away, really. But it has become worse, I guess.
> 
> Nah, I'm really edging more towards lowering the Nardil dose. Have only taken 60 mg today. I was fine at 60 mg too. But I have had a slight effect on my mood from increasing to 75 mg. But only slightly, and right now I feel like it's not worth it.
> 
> I was at work this afternoon. I usually am able to work at my own pace, but things are more unpredictable at the ward on a weekend night where there's only a few of the normal staff around, the rest are people working weekends here and there. The other nurse knows that I am supposed to take it easy, but then we had a patient who died in the early afternoon, so there was really not much time to relax. I felt I had to help as much as possible, being the most senior staff there that night. Locating the doctor on call, ringing next of kins, get the patient his final bed bath and a lot of documentation. While all this was going on the phone was ringing, the dish washer was broken so we had to use the one at the next ward, a patient fell and was bleeding everywhere, etc etc. Who am I to say "hey guys? I need to put my legs up for a bit. You mind keeping it down?" :grin2:
> 
> I am glad I am handling the situations, and that I can help, but today I was so exhausted even before the shift started, so it was a living hell, really. Got tomorrow off, though. I wish I could say I am gonna sleep all day, but I can't even sleep anymore. I sleep for 3 or 4 hours straight, then I wake up feeling sooo restless I toss and turn and sleep for ten minutes at a time until I can finally get up. I've tried increasing the Seroquel, it didn't work. I tried Oxazepam, no effect. I tried zopiclone, and no effect.


Sorry to hear you are feeling so crappy. I also am. I'm seriously considering a restart again. I think the sweet spot for me is between 75 and 45, i took 1 1/2 this morning and 2 in the afternoon.
I'm crapping my pants though at parts of my illness sneaking back in like the paranoia and anxiety. 
I work around a lot of people now in the mornings for maybe about 3 hrs before i get on the road. Scared of not being able to communicate again and starting to disconnect as I do from the relationships I have began to build at work. Before nardil I had got to the point where I could not connect with anyone and was happy to stay in every day.
The nardil does help with that, also the paranoia and panic attacks but i just feel totally flat and not happy at all.
I work and come home and don't want to do anything.

Maybe you should drop by half and see how you feel? i think its worth a shot at least.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Sorry to hear you are feeling so crappy. I also am. I'm seriously considering a restart again. I think the sweet spot for me is between 75 and 45, i took 1 1/2 this morning and 2 in the afternoon.
> I'm crapping my pants though at parts of my illness sneaking back in like the paranoia and anxiety.
> I work around a lot of people now in the mornings for maybe about 3 hrs before i get on the road. Scared of not being able to communicate again and starting to disconnect as I do from the relationships I have began to build at work. Before nardil I had got to the point where I could not connect with anyone and was happy to stay in every day.
> The nardil does help with that, also the paranoia and panic attacks but i just feel totally flat and not happy at all.
> I work and come home and don't want to do anything.
> 
> Maybe you should drop by half and see how you feel? i think its worth a shot at least.


This is my third day at 60 mg. I think I'm gonna try that for a little while. When I have finally decided, I'll call my pdoc and tell him. I know I was doing okay at 60 mg as well, I just wanted more, an extra boost, maybe feel joy from time to time. But I've got things into perspective now. I can't handle this lack of energy.

I was so tired yesterday, I went to bed at 9pm. Woke up at 1am, then slept quite restlessly until 3. I took a sleeping tablet (zopiclone) then, and slept until a little past seven. Maybe that's the solution for me, keeping a tablet like that ready on my night stand. Because I fall asleep no problem at first, it's around 3 am the trouble starts.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> Sorry to hear you are feeling so crappy. I also am. I'm seriously considering a restart again. I think the sweet spot for me is between 75 and 45, i took 1 1/2 this morning and 2 in the afternoon.
> I'm crapping my pants though at parts of my illness sneaking back in like the paranoia and anxiety.
> I work around a lot of people now in the mornings for maybe about 3 hrs before i get on the road. Scared of not being able to communicate again and starting to disconnect as I do from the relationships I have began to build at work. Before nardil I had got to the point where I could not connect with anyone and was happy to stay in every day.
> The nardil does help with that, also the paranoia and panic attacks but i just feel totally flat and not happy at all.
> I work and come home and don't want to do anything.
> 
> Maybe you should drop by half and see how you feel? i think its worth a shot at least.


Sorry you're feeling so rough. Hopefully you can bounce back. I've noticed huge differences in just adding 7.5 mg of nardil so maybe adjusting your dose up/down may help?

Also - do you still take agmatine? I decided today to cut it out my routine for a few weeks and then I may try again later on to see if it actually makes a difference.

I've been taking agmatine ever since I started Nardil and I have this fear that Nardil is going to quit working for me now that I cut it out (although I know that's an irrational thought). I remember Gillman fan saying it greatly increased the benefit and lessened his side effects of parnate and stuff so I figured I'd try it. Hopefully I'll have an experience like @SFC01 and realize that agmatine has been hindering nardil this whole time and I'll feel better now that I cut it out!


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Sorry you're feeling so rough. Hopefully you can bounce back. I've noticed huge differences in just adding 7.5 mg of nardil so maybe adjusting your dose up/down may help?
> 
> Also - do you still take agmatine? I decided today to cut it out my routine for a few weeks and then I may try again later on to see if it actually makes a difference.
> 
> I've been taking agmatine ever since I started Nardil and I have this fear that Nardil is going to quit working for me now that I cut it out (although I know that's an irrational thought). I remember Gillman fan saying it greatly increased the benefit and lessened his side effects of parnate and stuff so I figured I'd try it. Hopefully I'll have an experience like @SFC01 and realize that agmatine has been hindering nardil this whole time and I'll feel better now that I cut it out!


Na I don't take it now. initially i felt a lift in mood but felt no benefits on nardil from it. Stopped taking it and felt the same if i remember correctly. i'm finding my hop strobile, valerian and passion flower to have a great calming effect on me. I definitely feel less angry on it, I was getting so angry while at work lately that on occasion i felt like wrapping my van around a tree on hitting an oncoming vehicle head on. I was very close to doing the tree one and it scared me that me saying nah in my head was the only thing that stopped me. not rational thought process or calming down, just down to a shall i shant i.
This stage i'm going through I have not ever been angry like this my whole life. This is a side effect some people get. I guess nardil couldn't cope with me beating every other side effect it threw at me, it's trying this one too now. I need to get to see the pdoc asap but wont get an appointment till the end of october. I have normal doc on the 7th, maybe she will be brave and allow me to take a pain Tricyclic. Take my pain and help improve this mood.

Funny how we all go through these weird stages. sound like @Tandorini is going through another cycle too. We just gotta try and ride these nasty phases knowing a better phase is on the way mate.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Funny how we all go through these weird stages. sound like @*Tandorini* is going through another cycle too. We just gotta try and ride these nasty phases knowing a better phase is on the way mate.


Sounds scary, losing control over your anger that way, especially while driving. I hope it passes more quickly than the other side effects.

I wouldn't say I'm going through another cycle - it's the increase to 75 mg that has been bothering me. I wonder how long it will take for me to feel better, now that I am down to 60 mg again. I am so sick and tired of the fatigue.

I slept well last night, though. I was at work from 3pm to 8 pm, feeling really exhausted the whole time. Went home, had a shower, and was in bed by nine. I slept from 10 pm to nearly 6 am, almost without waking up. So maybe the sleeping problems are over for now. I certainly hope so. Whenever I wake up, though, I have such restlessness in my body, I have to get up quite immediatly. Also, I still get these chills. I remember last night, I was about to fall asleep, and I felt it coming. I had to curl up and put the duvet over my head, trying to stay as warm as possible. Those chills came again at 75 mg, I hope they pass soon.

I would give anything to experience one of the "old days" again, before all the fatigue. Feeling how my body was back then. I'm beginning to forget. I don't even know if one of my good days now is similar to how I was before.


----------



## cigpk

I haven't necessarily had a sh1tty day but it def has been one of my worst days since starting nardil. I didn't take Agmatine this morning as I'm gonna see how I feel without it for a few days. I noticed that my morning dose of Nardil didn't really put me in a great mood like it normally does (maybe because of no Agmatine or maybe it's just in my head) but i also had a presentation for about 60 people this morning and was prepping for that so maybe that's why i wasn't too excited about the day...

I also had a BP spike this morning from drinking coffee which I normally don't experience. Agmatine does help regulate BP so it could be related.

I woke up with a headache and I used to have chronic cluster headaches so any time I have a headache it really messed with my mood.

I got to campus today and saw everyone for the presentation (and found out I was getting filmed for the presentation) and immediately got crazy anxious, heart palpitations and everything so I took a propranolol which I haven't had to take in months. Unfortunately, I ended up having to present first so the propranolol didn't even have time to take effect until after my presentation ended lol so now I'm just tired as heck probs from hypotension - coffee hasn't helped either. I'm having difficulty keeping my eyes open in class but my mood hasn't gotten a lil better.

I'm gonna lay off the Agmatine again tomorrow to see if I feel any different but if I keep noticing low mood i may start it again later this week. 

Hope everyone else is hanging in there!


----------



## cigpk

I will say though that I could definitely feel the benefits on Nardil during my presentation - I was anxious but still able to be confident and think and speak relatively clearly. It's still crazy to me how much this medication has improved my social anxiety and outlook on life.


----------



## V1bzz

Just to let yall know, i'm dosing my nardil sublingually again. I think my gut has only been letting small amounts through.
I can feel that it is going into my system properly again as my tingly fingers are starting to come back. Will update you all in a week or so to let you know if the new dose taken sublingually is helping.

Im just taking magnesium malate and nardil for now.

just the ole maggy mally with some nally but not in the belly, under me swally @SFC01 LOL

@WillComp mate im wondering if i was able to you know what just fine lately because nardil dose wasn't getting through. Since i've started sublingually again I am getting slight urinary retention and the big A is returning 
I always know when nardil is in my system properly because I get the tingly feelings in my fingers.
Haven't had them or skin rushes for ageeeeees!!!!

Wonder what it will take for me to give up on this shizzle.

@Tandorini, give yourself a boost, bite em in half and do them sublingually and let me know if your mood and energy improves over the next few days please. do as your told 
@cigpk well done for getting through that. the thought of that situation is too much for me to even think about, I would collapse I think. Glad nardil seems to be going in the right direction for you.
There's no hiding from nardil side effects so expect them and prepare. read back through and see what we came up with to combat things...well apart from the pot belly. nothing shifted that. Mine isnt too bad these days. I had to literally cut out everything I loved like biscuits (all biscuits) and stuff like that. I woke up yesterday and my stomach was flat. Plus i have lost some weight since starting work and am active for 8 hours a day.

or of course it could just be that the nardil dose lowered and now it will return taking it sublingually.
@WillComp my narcolepsy thing is much much better now mate, as soon as i cut out everything that made it come on about an hour after eating...usually any and all kinds of biscuits.

I still nearly fall asleep while driving for longer than 30mins and have to drop 3 or 4 energy pills. That's the only time I really get it these days since i cut every thing out....but as i said above, could be because nardil wasnt getting into my system properly.

Hopefully 52.5 sublingually is the dose for me. will let you all know. As i said above, i can defo feel it getting into my system again 
@SFC01 @watertouch where you guys causing trouble at the moment? lol as soon as im not feeling so flat im up for taking over threads with nonsense again haha. how is you both?
I'm feeling quite horny lately and often have morning chubby


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> .
> 
> just the ole maggy mally with some nally but not in the belly, under me swally @*SFC01* LOL
> 
> @*SFC01* @*watertouch* where you guys causing trouble at the moment? lol as soon as im not feeling so flat im up for taking over threads with nonsense again haha. how is you both?


How about up your alley? 

I`ve been a good boy recently, mainly anyway but will copy you in on some threads if I deem them stupid and open to disruption :grin2:

Overall mate, yeah I have been good, **** load of work as I have to take over some stuff from some top bods, but at least they have awarded me with the sum total of sweet **** all, and they have offered me some assistance from an an employee called Jack Sh*t

Btw didn't hear back from my pdoc secretary, do you want me to chase again?


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Just to let yall know, i'm dosing my nardil sublingually again. I think my gut has only been letting small amounts through.
> I can feel that it is going into my system properly again as my tingly fingers are starting to come back. Will update you all in a week or so to let you know if the new dose taken sublingually is helping.
> 
> Im just taking magnesium malate and nardil for now.
> 
> @*Tandorini* , give yourself a boost, bite em in half and do them sublingually and let me know if your mood and energy improves over the next few days please. do as your told


Haha, I totally forgot about that sublingual tryout. Hm...I dunno. 

Did five hours at work today, didn't feel quite as exhausted as I have the other days, and today I was really quite busy, doing lots of stuff all over the ward. Not feeling the tiredness in my legs that I usually do. Maybe some of the worst fatigue from the 75 mg is wearing off. Been at 60 for the past 5 days. Hm...wonder what 45 would feel like.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Haha, I totally forgot about that sublingual tryout. Hm...I dunno.
> 
> Did five hours at work today, didn't feel quite as exhausted as I have the other days, and today I was really quite busy, doing lots of stuff all over the ward. Not feeling the tiredness in my legs that I usually do. Maybe some of the worst fatigue from the 75 mg is wearing off. Been at 60 for the past 5 days. Hm...wonder what 45 would feel like.


sublingual sounds disgusting with nardil, couldnt do that every day.
@V1bzz, do you not crush them up into powder first? Would be quicker dissolving that way I would imagine.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> How about up your alley?
> 
> I`ve been a good boy recently, mainly anyway but will copy you in on some threads if I deem them stupid and open to disruption :grin2:
> 
> Overall mate, yeah I have been good, **** load of work as I have to take over some stuff from some top bods, but at least they have awarded me with the sum total of sweet **** all, and they have offered me some assistance from an an employee called Jack Sh*t
> 
> Btw didn't hear back from my pdoc secretary, do you want me to chase again?


It's looking like i'm all sorted now mate. I see the new normal doc next monday and she just needs to send the info requested by the pdoc, referral, notes etc then I will get an appointment at the end of this month. think its about £180 or so, worth it though if she can help me feel abit better. I'm thinking i may have to come off nardil and give parnate a try. i'm not giving up on nardil, i think my body just needs a break maybe, then i will start all over. It's hard for me to give up on something that made me feel 100% like my old self before all the **** took control, all be it for only 3 days. gunna stick at 52.5mg till the appointment, hope its the sweet spot dose that i hit when i was withdrawing


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> sublingual sounds disgusting with nardil, couldnt do that every day.
> @V1bzz, do you not crush them up into powder first? Would be quicker dissolving that way I would imagine.


I bite em in half and mostly forget that they are even under my tongue. some days its foul, others not..but yeah when im sick of it taking so long i crunch it up and put back under the tongue.


----------



## cigpk

Well I got hit with the whole gamut over the past week and a half. Insomnia worsened and so my daytime fatigue has exponentially increased - I was in a one on one meeting today and I couldn't focus on anything being said and it was nearly impossible to keep my eyes open. Coffee isn't helping no matter how much I drink.

I didn't realize it until today but I look sort of sickly/gaunt because I've lost like 10 pounds on Nardil now. 

Anorgasmia (or severe delayed delayed ejaculation) has set in as well. This has been progressively getting worse since I upped the dosage.

Then on top of alllll these ****ty side effects, my gf split up with my yesterday. We have a super long 7+ year history. However, I am seeing the positive side of things and I know it was for the best. I didn't want to say goodbye or let go because of our history but I realize now that we weren't meant for each other. Also, this is terrible news for someone with social anxiety cuz fukc dating lol.

But anyway, life is still good. I really can't complain. I have decided to back it down to 45 mg for a couple weeks though until my side effects have all disappeared (or that's the hope at least). I really need to get some sleep and I'm already taking trazodone for insomnia. I will then evaluate how I'm feeling and if I need to increase again. I was feeling good at 45 mg initially but I decided to increase just to see how I got by. 

I also plan to take a break off of Maca which is supposed to boost energy and libido. I'd like to see how I get by on just the Nardil.

If I like 45 mg, I may look into augmenting with L-theanine or something. There is something called L theanine serene that I used to take which would pair well with Nardil I think.

Hope everyone else is still chugging along!


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Well I got hit with the whole gamut over the past week and a half. Insomnia worsened and so my daytime fatigue has exponentially increased - I was in a one on one meeting today and I couldn't focus on anything being said and it was nearly impossible to keep my eyes open. Coffee isn't helping no matter how much I drink.
> 
> I didn't realize it until today but I look sort of sickly/gaunt because I've lost like 10 pounds on Nardil now.
> 
> Anorgasmia (or severe delayed delayed ejaculation) has set in as well. This has been progressively getting worse since I upped the dosage.
> 
> Then on top of alllll these ****ty side effects, my gf split up with my yesterday. We have a super long 7+ year history. However, I am seeing the positive side of things and I know it was for the best. I didn't want to say goodbye or let go because of our history but I realize now that we weren't meant for each other. Also, this is terrible news for someone with social anxiety cuz fukc dating lol.
> 
> But anyway, life is still good. I really can't complain. I have decided to back it down to 45 mg for a couple weeks though until my side effects have all disappeared (or that's the hope at least). I really need to get some sleep and I'm already taking trazodone for insomnia. I will then evaluate how I'm feeling and if I need to increase again. I was feeling good at 45 mg initially but I decided to increase just to see how I got by.
> 
> I also plan to take a break off of Maca which is supposed to boost energy and libido. I'd like to see how I get by on just the Nardil.
> 
> If I like 45 mg, I may look into augmenting with L-theanine or something. There is something called L theanine serene that I used to take which would pair well with Nardil I think.
> 
> Hope everyone else is still chugging along!


Aw, that sucks, about the breakup. But hopefully you're able to handle it now, with the effects of Nardil on your health.

I've been at 60 mg for a week now, going down from 75 mg. I feel so much better physically. For the past two or three days I have had more energy, being able to do lots of stuff. I have to be a bit careful though, not burn all my energy at once. I feel a bit more exhausted today, which is probably a result from me doing way too much over the past few days.

My sleep is so much better. I slept from about 11pm until 7.15 today, only waking up once during the night. Haven't slept that well for ages. For the past three days or so I haven't even slept during day time, while at 75 mg I had to sleep once or twice a day. At 75 mg I also had desperate cravings for sugary stuff, which is now a lot less. I think 60 mg is right for me. Maybe even 45, after a while. I told my psychomotoric therapist yesterday that I decreased the dose, she was going to leave a note for the pdoc.


----------



## cigpk

Tandorini said:


> Aw, that sucks, about the breakup. But hopefully you're able to handle it now, with the effects of Nardil on your health.
> 
> I've been at 60 mg for a week now, going down from 75 mg. I feel so much better physically. For the past two or three days I have had more energy, being able to do lots of stuff. I have to be a bit careful though, not burn all my energy at once. I feel a bit more exhausted today, which is probably a result from me doing way too much over the past few days.
> 
> My sleep is so much better. I slept from about 11pm until 7.15 today, only waking up once during the night. Haven't slept that well for ages. For the past three days or so I haven't even slept during day time, while at 75 mg I had to sleep once or twice a day. At 75 mg I also had desperate cravings for sugary stuff, which is now a lot less. I think 60 mg is right for me. Maybe even 45, after a while. I told my psychomotoric therapist yesterday that I decreased the dose, she was going to leave a note for the pdoc.


That's awesome... getting a full 8 hours of sleep sounds incredible :nerd: have you noticed any changes in mood/anxiety?

My only fear with dropping my dose this early is that I was only on 52.5 mg for 2-3 weeks. Everyone says you need to get at least up to 60 for like 4 weeks or something before dropping down to 45 (if side effects are unbearable) so that a sufficient amount of MAO inhibition can take place or some crap. I think I'm going to stay at 45 until all of my side effects of insomnia/fatigue are gone (anorgasmia is already gone and I'm only on day 3 of 45 mg). So probably like 1 - 2 weeks hopefully, then I can move back up to 52.5 mg as I've heard this whole "drop the dose for a couple of weeks and move back up" can be a good way to diminish side effects. Then after 52.5 for a while, I may try the same thing moving up to 60 for 4 weeks, then dropping down to 52.5 mg. So it will be a little bit of a process but I feel like I'm in a good place to where I can handle it.

And yes, you're right - I think Nardil has helped immensely with my whole view of the break-up. I'm not all sad and down about it because I'm able to see that it was probably the right thing. I do get emotional when I think about her but I'm also very grateful to have experienced the time I did with her. She is the most kind person I know and I'll miss her, but I know it was the best thing for both of us.

Later gators!


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> That's awesome... getting a full 8 hours of sleep sounds incredible :nerd: have you noticed any changes in mood/anxiety?
> 
> My only fear with dropping my dose this early is that I was only on 52.5 mg for 2-3 weeks. Everyone says you need to get at least up to 60 for like 4 weeks or something before dropping down to 45 (if side effects are unbearable) so that a sufficient amount of MAO inhibition can take place or some crap. I think I'm going to stay at 45 until all of my side effects of insomnia/fatigue are gone (anorgasmia is already gone and I'm only on day 3 of 45 mg). So probably like 1 - 2 weeks hopefully, then I can move back up to 52.5 mg as I've heard this whole "drop the dose for a couple of weeks and move back up" can be a good way to diminish side effects. Then after 52.5 for a while, I may try the same thing moving up to 60 for 4 weeks, then dropping down to 52.5 mg. So it will be a little bit of a process but I feel like I'm in a good place to where I can handle it.
> 
> And yes, you're right - I think Nardil has helped immensely with my whole view of the break-up. I'm not all sad and down about it because I'm able to see that it was probably the right thing. I do get emotional when I think about her but I'm also very grateful to have experienced the time I did with her. She is the most kind person I know and I'll miss her, but I know it was the best thing for both of us.
> 
> Later gators!


I think it's too early to feel any change in my mood.

I was never much bothered by anxiety, the little I had was related to my depression. So that was the first thing that went, while the depression took longer to treat. I know I was okay at 60 mg too, perhaps a tad bit better at 75 mg. But I have decided it's not worth it now, the side effects. The effect on my mood was only tiny, so I'll be best off at 60 mg.


----------



## WillComp

@V1bzz : I'm finally feeling Nardil's benefits on a consistent basis. What I've noticed is that Nardil does not help with anticipatory anxiety. For example, I still freak out weeks before a terrifying anxiety-provoking event, just because my brain is programmed to dwell and obsess over those type of events, getting myself sick. Then when the event finally comes around, I have virtually no anxiety at all. I feel calm, comfortable, energetic, talkative (of course my vocabulary is embarrassingly low, I have terrible social skills and I'm still unable to tell stories, however I actually talk and can keep a conversation going comfortably now), I'm able to listen, look in people's eyes, smile, joke and if I say something stupid I don't care, I just let it roll off my back. Completely opposite of what I used to be like. One of my coworkers told me this week, "you look so happy and comfortable these days; you look really well; I'm happy for you." :smile2:

After 6 months on Nardil.. and 3 months steady at 75mg, I only have 2 side effects left: anorgasmia and narcolepsy. Narcolepsy doesn't bother me, because caffeine pills are 100% effective for me. If I find myself nodding off at inappropriate times, I pop a caffeine pill and within 30-45 minutes I'm awake again. I had to take 1 an hour ago, and now I'm wide awake. As for the anorgasmia, I've taken a 3 week break from trying. If I had to guess, I won't be successful. I'm not gonna even try for 2 more weeks. Since all my other sides have passed, for example I never feel dizzy or muscle pain any more, I think my anorgasmia will eventually pass too. It's just gonna take a lot longer than the other sides. That's ok though. Been there, done that a million times anyway.

The thing that helped my fatigue and muscle soreness was weight lifting. I couldn't even walk far without feeling like a ran a marathon. I took it slow with the weights and didn't bother with cardio. Soon enough I was progressing with my lifting, and before I knew it I was giving it my all and feeling wonderful. I would get super sore afterwards for a day or 2, but I could tell it was a different kind of pain. It was the same soreness from a typical killer workout. No pain, no gain. I'm also losing pounds every day by weight training. I go to the gym 3 times a week, and now I'm beginning to walk more again as well. I just go to the mall and walk around for an hour or so. Lifting weights is actually one of the highlights of my week. The adrenaline when lifting is ten times more euphoric than pre-Nardil. I just feel so good all over. Incidentally, not long ago I saw this dude wearing a t-shirt that said "Pain is weakness leaving the body". Now I don't even feel it. I went hiking again this week and only felt soreness in my legs the first 10 minutes. After that, the pain left and I had no problem at all making it up to the summit, faster than most people on the trails. By the time I got to the top I was sweating bullets like everyone else, however no soreness or heavy breathing at all. I just felt great all over.

I'm not a religious person at all, in fact I'm probably the least religious person of anyone here, however today I actually felt like praying to someone, anyone, anybody who could hear me, maybe even the creator of life, anyone that cared, and whispered a short prayer of thankfulness. I've never felt so grateful in my life. I hate exaggerating, so this is no exaggeration at all.. but Nardil has literally saved my life. I had a lot of stuff I wanted to add but don't have time right now. Will write more later. :smile2:


----------



## RCMC

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz : I'm finally feeling Nardil's benefits on a consistent basis. What I've noticed is that Nardil does not help with anticipatory anxiety. For example, I still freak out weeks before a terrifying anxiety-provoking event, just because my brain is programmed to dwell and obsess over those type of events, getting myself sick. Then when the event finally comes around, I have virtually no anxiety at all. I feel calm, comfortable, energetic, talkative (of course my vocabulary is embarrassingly low, I have terrible social skills and I'm still unable to tell stories, however I actually talk and can keep a conversation going comfortably now), I'm able to listen, look in people's eyes, smile, joke and if I say something stupid I don't care, I just let it roll off my back. Completely opposite of what I used to be like. One of my coworkers told me this week, "you look so happy and comfortable these days; you look really well; I'm happy for you." :smile2:
> 
> After 6 months on Nardil.. and 3 months steady at 75mg, I only have 2 side effects left: anorgasmia and narcolepsy. Narcolepsy doesn't bother me, because caffeine pills are 100% effective for me. If I find myself nodding off at inappropriate times, I pop a caffeine pill and within 30-45 minutes I'm awake again. I had to take 1 an hour ago, and now I'm wide awake. As for the anorgasmia, I've taken a 3 week break from trying. If I had to guess, I won't be successful. I'm not gonna even try for 2 more weeks. Since all my other sides have passed, for example I never feel dizzy or muscle pain any more, I think my anorgasmia will eventually pass too. It's just gonna take a lot longer than the other sides. That's ok though. Been there, done that a million times anyway.
> 
> The thing that helped my fatigue and muscle soreness was weight lifting. I couldn't even walk far without feeling like a ran a marathon. I took it slow with the weights and didn't bother with cardio. Soon enough I was progressing with my lifting, and before I knew it I was giving it my all and feeling wonderful. I would get super sore afterwards for a day or 2, but I could tell it was a different kind of pain. It was the same soreness from a typical killer workout. No pain, no gain. I'm also losing pounds every day by weight training. I go to the gym 3 times a week, and now I'm beginning to walk more again as well. I just go to the mall and walk around for an hour or so. Lifting weights is actually one of the highlights of my week. The adrenaline when lifting is ten times more euphoric than pre-Nardil. I just feel so good all over. Incidentally, not long ago I saw this dude wearing a t-shirt that said "Pain is weakness leaving the body". Now I don't even feel it. I went hiking again this week and only felt soreness in my legs the first 10 minutes. After that, the pain left and I had no problem at all making it up to the summit, faster than most people on the trails. By the time I got to the top I was sweating bullets like everyone else, however no soreness or heavy breathing at all. I just felt great all over.
> 
> I'm not a religious person at all, in fact I'm probably the least religious person of anyone here, however today I actually felt like praying to someone, anyone, anybody who could hear me, maybe even the creator of life, anyone that cared, and whispered a short prayer of thankfulness. I've never felt so grateful in my life. I hate exaggerating, so this is no exaggeration at all.. but Nardil has literally saved my life. I had a lot of stuff I wanted to add but don't have time right now. Will write more later. :smile2:


Congrad!! People with SAD is difficult to have a grateful life. Hopefully I would be there soon~


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> @*V1bzz* : I'm finally feeling Nardil's benefits on a consistent basis. What I've noticed is that Nardil does not help with anticipatory anxiety. For example, I still freak out weeks before a terrifying anxiety-provoking event, just because my brain is programmed to dwell and obsess over those type of events, getting myself sick. Then when the event finally comes around, I have virtually no anxiety at all.


Get doing some mindfulness then mate !! :grin2:

That will definitely help the anticipatory anxiety.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> The thing that helped my fatigue and muscle soreness was weight lifting. I couldn't even walk far without feeling like a ran a marathon. I took it slow with the weights and didn't bother with cardio. Soon enough I was progressing with my lifting, and before I knew it I was giving it my all and feeling wonderful. I would get super sore afterwards for a day or 2, but I could tell it was a different kind of pain. It was the same soreness from a typical killer workout. No pain, no gain. I'm also losing pounds every day by weight training. I go to the gym 3 times a week, and now I'm beginning to walk more again as well. I just go to the mall and walk around for an hour or so. Lifting weights is actually one of the highlights of my week. The adrenaline when lifting is ten times more euphoric than pre-Nardil. I just feel so good all over. Incidentally, not long ago I saw this dude wearing a t-shirt that said "Pain is weakness leaving the body". Now I don't even feel it. I went hiking again this week and only felt soreness in my legs the first 10 minutes. After that, the pain left and I had no problem at all making it up to the summit, faster than most people on the trails. By the time I got to the top I was sweating bullets like everyone else, however no soreness or heavy breathing at all. I just felt great all over.


That's really interesting, about the weightlifting. I've been thinking I need to save my energy for cardio, to try to stay fit. But maybe I should try lifting some weights instead. Been ages since I last did, must have been before Nardil, i.e. in January or so.


----------



## WillComp

SFC01 said:


> Get doing some mindfulness then mate !! :grin2:
> 
> That will definitely help the anticipatory anxiety.


I've never done that. How would someone who has never tried it begin the mindfulness? I'd be interesting in trying, however it's hard to control my thoughts; they're all over the place.


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> That's really interesting, about the weightlifting. I've been thinking I need to save my energy for cardio, to try to stay fit. But maybe I should try lifting some weights instead. Been ages since I last did, must have been before Nardil, i.e. in January or so.


With weightlifting, you can basically stand in one place. You can just keep your feet planted in one place and bend your knees slightly.

All you need is 30 minutes of weightlifting 3 days a week. Later if you want to extend it to 45 minutes, go ahead, although there's no need to do more than that.

I do a 3 day full body workout. Sunday: Pull; Tuesday: Push; Thursday: Legs

If you want you can look these up online. These are the exercises I've been doing.

Monday: Deadlifts= 3 sets; Pull-ups= 3 sets; one-arm dumbbell row= 2 sets; close-grip pull-down= 2 sets; barbell curls= 3 sets; hammer curls= 2 sets; dumbbell incline rows= 2 sets; standing cable rows= 3 sets 

Tuesday: Flat barbell bench press= 3 sets; incline barbell bench press= 2 sets; reverse grip triceps pushdown= 2 sets; seated dumbbell military press= 3 sets; overhead dumbbell extension= 3 sets; side dumbbell laterals= 2 sets; cable pushdowns= 2 sets= cable crossovers= 3 sets 

Thursday: Squats= 4 sets; stiff-legged deadlifts= 2 sets= walking lunges with dumbbells= 2 sets; Leg curls/leg press machine= 2 sets; calf legs= 3 sets; reverse leg bench press curl= 2 sets; dumbbell squats= 2 sets; leg stretch shrugs= 3 sets


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> With weightlifting, you can basically stand in one place. You can just keep your feet planted in one place and bend your knees slightly.
> 
> All you need is 30 minutes of weightlifting 3 days a week. Later if you want to extend it to 45 minutes, go ahead, although there's no need to do more than that.
> 
> I do a 3 day full body workout. Sunday: Pull; Tuesday: Push; Thursday: Legs
> 
> If you want you can look these up online. These are the exercises I've been doing.
> 
> Monday: Deadlifts= 3 sets; Pull-ups= 3 sets; one-arm dumbbell row= 2 sets; close-grip pull-down= 2 sets; barbell curls= 3 sets; hammer curls= 2 sets; dumbbell incline rows= 2 sets; standing cable rows= 3 sets
> 
> Tuesday: Flat barbell bench press= 3 sets; incline barbell bench press= 2 sets; reverse grip triceps pushdown= 2 sets; seated dumbbell military press= 3 sets; overhead dumbbell extension= 3 sets; side dumbbell laterals= 2 sets; cable pushdowns= 2 sets= cable crossovers= 3 sets
> 
> Thursday: Squats= 4 sets; stiff-legged deadlifts= 2 sets= walking lunges with dumbbells= 2 sets; Leg curls/leg press machine= 2 sets; calf legs= 3 sets; reverse leg bench press curl= 2 sets; dumbbell squats= 2 sets; leg stretch shrugs= 3 sets


Thanks! That's great, that you work out three times a week. I do already have a set of exercises I used to do before, though. Think I might start off with those, as they are familiar to me. I can also get one of the trainers at the gym set up a program for me, they do that free of charge. When I was depressed I was also very restless, I couldn't keep still, I needed to do something physically do try to change my focus, get away from my thoughts. So I worked out a lot back then. I was so frustrated over the fact that I could never enjoy a quiet day inside the flat, like other people can. Now I am enjoying sitting in the couch in front of the television a little too much  I still go out and stuff though, but haven't been working out very much. A friend of mine lives a 15 minute bike ride away, I go there quite often. It's about the same distance to see my therapist and pdoc, so I get these short workouts, and I also do some yinyoga. But I am a little "jealous" of my old self, who would go to the gym every day, like I really needed it to feel okay.

Overall, I prefer how I am today, though. Happier, more relaxed. But yeah, I really should go back to working out, not losing too much of all I worked so hard for.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz : I'm finally feeling Nardil's benefits on a consistent basis. What I've noticed is that Nardil does not help with anticipatory anxiety. For example, I still freak out weeks before a terrifying anxiety-provoking event, just because my brain is programmed to dwell and obsess over those type of events, getting myself sick. Then when the event finally comes around, I have virtually no anxiety at all. I feel calm, comfortable, energetic, talkative (of course my vocabulary is embarrassingly low, I have terrible social skills and I'm still unable to tell stories, however I actually talk and can keep a conversation going comfortably now), I'm able to listen, look in people's eyes, smile, joke and if I say something stupid I don't care, I just let it roll off my back. Completely opposite of what I used to be like. One of my coworkers told me this week, "you look so happy and comfortable these days; you look really well; I'm happy for you." :smile2:
> 
> After 6 months on Nardil.. and 3 months steady at 75mg, I only have 2 side effects left: anorgasmia and narcolepsy. Narcolepsy doesn't bother me, because caffeine pills are 100% effective for me. If I find myself nodding off at inappropriate times, I pop a caffeine pill and within 30-45 minutes I'm awake again. I had to take 1 an hour ago, and now I'm wide awake. As for the anorgasmia, I've taken a 3 week break from trying. If I had to guess, I won't be successful. I'm not gonna even try for 2 more weeks. Since all my other sides have passed, for example I never feel dizzy or muscle pain any more, I think my anorgasmia will eventually pass too. It's just gonna take a lot longer than the other sides. That's ok though. Been there, done that a million times anyway.
> 
> The thing that helped my fatigue and muscle soreness was weight lifting. I couldn't even walk far without feeling like a ran a marathon. I took it slow with the weights and didn't bother with cardio. Soon enough I was progressing with my lifting, and before I knew it I was giving it my all and feeling wonderful. I would get super sore afterwards for a day or 2, but I could tell it was a different kind of pain. It was the same soreness from a typical killer workout. No pain, no gain. I'm also losing pounds every day by weight training. I go to the gym 3 times a week, and now I'm beginning to walk more again as well. I just go to the mall and walk around for an hour or so. Lifting weights is actually one of the highlights of my week. The adrenaline when lifting is ten times more euphoric than pre-Nardil. I just feel so good all over. Incidentally, not long ago I saw this dude wearing a t-shirt that said "Pain is weakness leaving the body". Now I don't even feel it. I went hiking again this week and only felt soreness in my legs the first 10 minutes. After that, the pain left and I had no problem at all making it up to the summit, faster than most people on the trails. By the time I got to the top I was sweating bullets like everyone else, however no soreness or heavy breathing at all. I just felt great all over.
> 
> I'm not a religious person at all, in fact I'm probably the least religious person of anyone here, however today I actually felt like praying to someone, anyone, anybody who could hear me, maybe even the creator of life, anyone that cared, and whispered a short prayer of thankfulness. I've never felt so grateful in my life. I hate exaggerating, so this is no exaggeration at all.. but Nardil has literally saved my life. I had a lot of stuff I wanted to add but don't have time right now. Will write more later. :smile2:


Thats awesome mate, it was good to be a part of the journey with you as you progressed. I still have hopes I will get there one day but I have decided its time for me to give up on Nardil, it just seems im so broken not even the best of the best can fix me. I am so thankful though that it at least tried and let me have 3 days of complete peace, I will never forget how amazing it felt to be free for those three days. I just felt like the me before the illness completely took over everything in my life. I knew it was over yesterday, i was getting angry so quickly. I threatened to 'do you in' to some guy in his late 50's because he spoke to me disrespectfully. I instantly flipped out, punched the inside door of my van, basically told him if he didn't shut the fluck up i would go over and do him. It really scared me when i settled down because that type of behaviour is so far out of character to me its crazy. That person wasn't me, i've never been anything like that my whole life. I think nardil is being forced to bring out the worst of me because it is unable to bring out the best. :frown2:

I have a doctors appointment on monday and i will ask her if i can switch to parnate, i'm sure it will fail too but if it lifts my mood and makes me feel happier inside I will take it!

If or once I get to the stage where i know parnate isnt going to work either I want to give nardil one more chance.

There has to be a time when you have to just give up on something and I believe my brain is telling me that time has come. I noticed today how anxious i was when i had to go in somewhere with people standing in a group and just even knowing how to communicate easily with one person. Life just really sucks right now, I am not a happy person at all.

I'm totally gutted Nardil to come off nardil but it's just not doing anything positive for me any more, well, it has stopped my panic attacks and made it easier to talk but i need much more than that. I want a life again!


----------



## SFC01

@*WillComp* , have pm'd you re meditation.

@*V1bzz* , incredibly gutted for you, but I think you are doing the right thing. Hopefully you can get your hands on some parnate soon enough and that will work for you.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @*WillComp* , have pm'd you re meditation.
> 
> @*V1bzz* , incredibly gutted for you, but I think you are doing the right thing. Hopefully you can get your hands on some parnate soon enough and that will work for you.


Just wasn't meant to be mate, at least I can't say I didn't give it a good go. Never know, maybe me deciding to stop will make it start working better. crazy thing the mind and body so who knows, anything is possible :smile2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Just wasn't meant to be mate, at least I can't say I didn't give it a good go. Never know, maybe me deciding to stop will make it start working better. crazy thing the mind and body so who knows, anything is possible :smile2:


You certainly did a great job of giving it a go with all those sides, must have been hard.

Your last sentence though has given me an idea, how about coming off nardil, starting something like amitriptyline/nortryptyline for a month or two, and then add nardil again, a bit more slowly than last time? Amitriptyline is the better choice I would say than nortriptyline for depression/anxiety.

Parnate is probably the best option to go with, but the above is another option at least if parnate doesn't do it for you.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> You certainly did a great job of giving it a go with all those sides, must have been hard.
> 
> Your last sentence though has given me an idea, how about coming off nardil, starting something like amitriptyline/nortryptyline for a month or two, and then add nardil again, a bit more slowly than last time? Amitriptyline is the better choice I would say than nortriptyline for depression/anxiety.
> 
> Parnate is probably the best option to go with, but the above is another option at least if parnate doesn't do it for you.


Thats what I was thinking mate, give something else for a couple of months, maybe it will fix whatever is blocking the nardil. totally clear my system of nardil, get some relief from the pain for a couple of months and then have a totally fresh start on the nardil. I'm still not ready to totally give up on it. Those few days are enough motivation to not totally give up on it just yet.

I will go for parnate mate. I think I may have a good chance of getting it from the new doc as it is less dangerous than what i have been on so why not?

thats what im thinking anyway. Anything else should be easier for her to prescribe, surely?

I'm also going to say I have been withdrawing for 10 days in preparation for the parnate and need something asap before all my crap starts fully kicking in again.

I think im withdrawing from nardil again anyway, been getting the headshocks for a few days. I found myself lying in bed last night worrying about nothing, just that feeling in your body. Have not missed that feeling at all!

I still think i have no serotonin left sometimes and this is why nothing works!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Thats what I was thinking mate, give something else for a couple of months, maybe it will fix whatever is blocking the nardil. totally clear my system of nardil, get some relief from the pain for a couple of months and then have a totally fresh start on the nardil. I'm still not ready to totally give up on it. Those few days are enough motivation to not totally give up on it just yet.
> 
> I will go for parnate mate. I think I may have a good chance of getting it from the new doc as it is less dangerous than what i have been on so why not?
> 
> thats what im thinking anyway. Anything else should be easier for her to prescribe, surely?
> 
> I'm also going to say I have been withdrawing for 10 days in preparation for the parnate and need something asap before all my crap starts fully kicking in again.
> 
> I think im withdrawing from nardil again anyway, been getting the headshocks for a few days. I found myself lying in bed last night worrying about nothing, just that feeling in your body. Have not missed that feeling at all!
> 
> I still think i have no serotonin left sometimes and this is why nothing works!


Ok mate, yeah parnate is the obvious next choice but check out sparky10's "Parnate to be withdrawn from the UK" thread. And of course, I will get a sutable actor to play you in the film, I was thinking Julian Clary maybe?


----------



## UKguy

Is it possible to take something like Nardil AND nortryptyline at the same time?

Sorry to hear Nardil hasn't worked out for you anyway.


----------



## cigpk

Aw man I'm sorry to hear that @V1bzz you've been a huge inspiration for me getting through my side effects even though you had it much rougher than myself. Keep your head up and do your best to trudge the road of medications if you decide to continue on that route. You'll find something that works. I also think going through experiences such as this are all part of overcoming the SA so the experience wasn't for nothing in my opinion.

Parnate was good for myself - If Nardil ends up being a dud for me (fingers crossed it won't be, so good so far) I will definitely go back to Parnate. That's a bummer about the UK withdrawing it from the market but you never know, maybe that's not going to happen.

Best of luck to you though mate!


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Aw man I'm sorry to hear that @V1bzz you've been a huge inspiration for me getting through my side effects even though you had it much rougher than myself. Keep your head up and do your best to trudge the road of medications if you decide to continue on that route. You'll find something that works. I also think going through experiences such as this are all part of overcoming the SA so the experience wasn't for nothing in my opinion.
> 
> Parnate was good for myself - If Nardil ends up being a dud for me (fingers crossed it won't be, so good so far) I will definitely go back to Parnate. That's a bummer about the UK withdrawing it from the market but you never know, maybe that's not going to happen.
> 
> Best of luck to you though mate!


Thank you for saying that mate, i'm so glad this thread is helping other people. It makes everything I went through worth it imo.
I really hope nardil kicks for you and you feel what I did for 3 days, its indescribable and amazing. It was very strange, the ight before I had more body rushes than usual. Got up feeling normal, as i had been for a while, took the nardil and boom, it kicked in. it was the first time I had felt nardil work after taking it. I actually didn't realise at first because I felt great, I first clicked that everything had changed when I was dancing around my bedroom to my music (sad but true), when I took the second dose, as it kicked in a could feel waves of goodness come all over my body and i felt fcklucking great.

Usually when I take nardil I feel nothing, sometimes I have a weird nervous feeling in my body, otherwise though I wouldn't even know I took anything. When it kicks in you know you have taken it, it's like you have dropped an illegal and are coming up =)

I wish and hope you feel that very soon. I totally understood what others had said about it feeling like xtc for a short time and life felt truly amazing. 
I was wanting to do something, planning stuff to do like join a gym, get a job in an office with loads of sexy women...just all the things that used to make me a mess were now stuff i wanted to do.

As others have said also, it wasn't a slow progression to that point. It was like someone flicked a light switch while I was sleeping.

I truly will never forget those 3 days, never!


----------



## V1bzz

I just dropped x4 Nardil. One final last attempt to jolt this sh1t into action.

Total dose today...
Morning - 22.5mg
Afternoon - 30mg
Evening - 60mg

Total
112.5mg


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Ok mate, yeah parnate is the obvious next choice but check out sparky10's "Parnate to be withdrawn from the UK" thread. And of course, I will get a sutable actor to play you in the film, I was thinking Julian Clary maybe?


What happens if it gets withdrawn? Will you not be able to get it by prescription then?

No MAOIs are on the market in Norway, the few that were have been withdrawn. But you can still get it by application. The doc has to do some paperwork, and I have to show some papers at the pharmacy, and then I can get it. I think my Nardil is from the UK, it's Archimedes, and all the information on it is in English.


----------



## Tandorini

So, some of you guys have tried quitting Nardil. I'm curious - what kind of withdrawal symptoms did you get? Is it horrible to withdraw from? I went from 75 to 60 without any trouble, that's all I know.

I tried quitting Seroquel once, it was horrible. The last 25-50 mg (I was at 200 to begin with) was the worst. I couldn't sleep, I had a feeling of malaise, I was dizzy, I just felt awful. Like I had the flu or something. I didn't know it was withdrawal symptoms either, as I couldn't believe the last 25 mg would be so bad to withdraw from, while I really hadn't felt much going from 200 to 50. I decided to continue Seroquel, I definitely need it for my sleep.

SSRIs I have had no problems withdrawing from. I went from 60 mg of Fluoxetine to 0 in one day, didn't feel anything. Also went from 30 mg of Escitalopram to 0 mg a few days later, didn't feel anything then either. Except for some back pain, I remember. Quitting Lamotrigine wasn't any trouble either, allthough I did do that "by the books", going down by 50 or 100 a week.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> What happens if it gets withdrawn? Will you not be able to get it by prescription then?
> 
> No MAOIs are on the market in Norway, the few that were have been withdrawn. But you can still get it by application. The doc has to do some paperwork, and I have to show some papers at the pharmacy, and then I can get it. I think my Nardil is from the UK, it's Archimedes, and all the information on it is in English.


I dont know to be honest, it would probably mean you will not be able to get a NHS prescription, which is only £9 per item so you would have to stump up the money yourself, which, given the price, not many people will be able to afford to. The cost to the NHS now is something like £250 for a months worth of 10mg

Its possible they would issue private prescriptions which you would then order from abroad, but again you would have to pick up the bill.

Hopefully these are just rumours though.


----------



## Tandorini

Do you guys feel any different drinking alcohol on Nardil? I get drunk faster, I think. But also, I tend to black out more easy. I mean, before, if I got really drunk, there would be certain holes in my memory from the night out. But now these holes are there even if I don't drink so much, there may be stuff from very early on in the night that I don't remember.

Spent the evening with a few friends yesterday. We were at my apartment for pre-drinks, and I had maybe six or seven units. I can remember when we went out, which pub we were at, what we were drinking. That we went out to have some junk food after. But I can't remember the walk over to the pub. I can't remember my friend spilling wine when I gave her a hug (she told me today). I can't remember walking home or going to bed. But I do remember what I ate at Burger King. 

It's weird. I mean, I would get these "holes" before too. But that would be later at night, and with loads to drink. 

I guess I shouldn't be getting drunk while on Nardil. But I mean, I might be on Nardil for a long, long time, I still wanna have fun with my friends. But I know I lose control over the diet restrictions and stuff when I get drunk. Like a couple of weeks ago I was out at a pub, and only a couple of days later I realised I had been drinking several draft beers that night. I have been very careful not to do that before, but I just totally forgot.

I did have quite a few drinks last night, I did. But I am barely even hungover, which tells me I really shouldn't have that many holes in my memory. I don't think I act any differently than I usually do when I'm drunk, at least no one's said anything. It's just this memory thing.


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> I dont know to be honest, it would probably mean you will not be able to get a NHS prescription, which is only £9 per item so you would have to stump up the money yourself, which, given the price, not many people will be able to afford to. The cost to the NHS now is something like £250 for a months worth of 10mg
> 
> Its possible they would issue private prescriptions which you would then order from abroad, but again you would have to pick up the bill.
> 
> Hopefully these are just rumours though.


Are you sure there is no kind of system for this? I know both Norway and Sweden has it. There are several medications that are used which are not on the market here. If the doctor applies and it gets approved, the cost is the same as for any other prescription. The doctor needs to put in the application that you have tried what's already on the market.

Medication for chronic/long lasting illness is covered by the "safety net" of 2000 NOK (under 200 pounds) a year. You pay for doctor's appointments and those type of prescriptions until you reach that limit. After that everything's free of charge.

I paid for the first bottle of Nardil, 100 tablets cost me 700 NOK. At 4 tablets a day that lasts me 25 days, so I would have been able to afford it even if it wasn't covered.

A lot of stuff is not officially on the market, but the pharmacies still stock some of it, as it is prescribed by application anyway. I actually found that a few pharmacies in my town stock Nardil. The one closest to me didn't, but now they do, as I told them I would be picking up all my prescriptions from them for now. (If I go to another pharmacy I need to bring the paper work again, while if I use the same one, they will have made a note that I have been approved.)

Only a few years ago Melatonin was brought on the market here. Before that, it was quite often prescribed by application, and foreign packets of the medicine were given out. As with Lorazepam - it is often used in the acute wards of the psychiatric hospitals, but it is not on the market here in Norway.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Are you sure there is no kind of system for this? I know both Norway and Sweden has it. There are several medications that are used which are not on the market here. If the doctor applies and it gets approved, the cost is the same as for any other prescription. The doctor needs to put in the application that you have tried what's already on the market.
> 
> Medication for chronic/long lasting illness is covered by the "safety net" of 2000 NOK (under 200 pounds) a year. You pay for doctor's appointments and those type of prescriptions until you reach that limit. After that everything's free of charge.
> 
> I paid for the first bottle of Nardil, 100 tablets cost me 700 NOK. At 4 tablets a day that lasts me 25 days, so I would have been able to afford it even if it wasn't covered.
> 
> A lot of stuff is not officially on the market, but the pharmacies still stock some of it, as it is prescribed by application anyway. I actually found that a few pharmacies in my town stock Nardil. The one closest to me didn't, but now they do, as I told them I would be picking up all my prescriptions from them for now. (If I go to another pharmacy I need to bring the paper work again, while if I use the same one, they will have made a note that I have been approved.)
> 
> Only a few years ago Melatonin was brought on the market here. Before that, it was quite often prescribed by application, and foreign packets of the medicine were given out. As with Lorazepam - it is often used in the acute wards of the psychiatric hospitals, but it is not on the market here in Norway.


I have no idea to be honest but being withdrawn from the UK market probably just means that the NHS wont subsidise it any longer. I would imagine it will still be available via a private prescription, but as far as I`m aware most private medical insurance companies will not cover medication costs for a long term period - mine doesn't.

I have had private prescriptions for small amounts of medication written before from a pyschiatrist and whilst the consultancy fees were covered by my insurance, for medication I had to pay the actual price the manufacturer / distributor sells them for.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> So, some of you guys have tried quitting Nardil. I'm curious - what kind of withdrawal symptoms did you get? Is it horrible to withdraw from? I went from 75 to 60 without any trouble, that's all I know.
> 
> I tried quitting Seroquel once, it was horrible. The last 25-50 mg (I was at 200 to begin with) was the worst. I couldn't sleep, I had a feeling of malaise, I was dizzy, I just felt awful. Like I had the flu or something. I didn't know it was withdrawal symptoms either, as I couldn't believe the last 25 mg would be so bad to withdraw from, while I really hadn't felt much going from 200 to 50. I decided to continue Seroquel, I definitely need it for my sleep.
> 
> SSRIs I have had no problems withdrawing from. I went from 60 mg of Fluoxetine to 0 in one day, didn't feel anything. Also went from 30 mg of Escitalopram to 0 mg a few days later, didn't feel anything then either. Except for some back pain, I remember. Quitting Lamotrigine wasn't any trouble either, allthough I did do that "by the books", going down by 50 or 100 a week.


I withdrew once not by my own choice and I just got headshocks, obviously intense at the start then less and less. it was 2 weeks of withdrawing before i realized and started taking sublingually


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I withdrew once not by my own choice and I just got headshocks


oh the nardil, I though you were talking about something else for a moment there :grin2:


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> oh the nardil, I though you were talking about something else for a moment there :grin2:


You don't take any type of multivitamin/supplement B6 right?

I have been in the process of removing most supplements from my routine just because my diet is pretty stable now and I don't think I need to be overdoing it with vitamins.

But anyway - today I just tried taking half of my multivitamin in the afternoon and I noticed it caused my BP to shoot up, sore muscles, and a slight headache. lol WTF!! I'm probably going to eliminate the multi from my diet for now but I don't know if that's a good idea. I wish I knew what it was that caused the weird reaction - normally I take it at night with my trazodone


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> You don't take any type of multivitamin/supplement B6 right?
> 
> I have been in the process of removing most supplements from my routine just because my diet is pretty stable now and I don't think I need to be overdoing it with vitamins.
> 
> But anyway - today I just tried taking half of my multivitamin in the afternoon and I noticed it caused my BP to shoot up, sore muscles, and a slight headache. lol WTF!! I'm probably going to eliminate the multi from my diet for now but I don't know if that's a good idea. I wish I knew what it was that caused the weird reaction - normally I take it at night with my trazodone


It could be that your heading into the manic phase where you feel awesome for about a week....another thing I didn't get from nardil huff!


----------



## V1bzz

Ok, so i can actually feel like i've taken something, I imagine that this is how I would feel a few weeks after starting Nardil?
I can lush body rushes and feel as if im slightly high, you know that feeling you get in your eyes and how your vision goes?

I honestly think if i could this dose for 2 weeks it could probably work and kick in properly. I have said this a few times to everyone but im more convinced than ever that I need to double,triple dose to get the the effects of 15.

who the fluck is going to prescribe me 112mg nardil a day though 

(update - have the dopamine aches in lower back! I honestly think nardil will work properly for me at this dose, I am feeling everything I would expect from starting a new med that is just starting to kick in)


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Ok, so i can actually feel like i've taken something, I imagine that this is how I would feel a few weeks after starting Nardil?
> I can lush body rushes and feel as if im slightly high, you know that feeling you get in your eyes and how your vision goes?
> 
> I honestly think if i could this dose for 2 weeks it could probably work and kick in properly. I have said this a few times to everyone but im more convinced than ever that I need to double,triple dose to get the the effects of 15.
> 
> who the fluck is going to prescribe me 112mg nardil a day though
> 
> (update - have the dopamine aches in lower back! I honestly think nardil will work properly for me at this dose, I am feeling everything I would expect from starting a new med that is just starting to kick in)


Are you using the archimedes brand, that need to be refrigerated? If you do - just tell your doc that you accidentally left it in room temperature for a day or so, and that you would need another prescription.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Are you using the archimedes brand, that need to be refrigerated? If you do - just tell your doc that you accidentally left it in room temperature for a day or so, and that you would need another prescription.


 @V1bzz, or, tell them that as it needs to be kept in the fridge, I must have thrown it away when I threw out some out of date stuff or was giving the fridge a good cleaning. Have done that a few times - its not an abusable med so they are usually ok about giving you a replacement as long as you space it out.

Also, I tend to put my description in early, like 5 days before its due and I usually get the next day so I have a few days worth left over, do that every month and you can buid quite a stash.


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> You don't take any type of multivitamin/supplement B6 right?
> 
> I have been in the process of removing most supplements from my routine just because my diet is pretty stable now and I don't think I need to be overdoing it with vitamins.
> 
> But anyway - today I just tried taking half of my multivitamin in the afternoon and I noticed it caused my BP to shoot up, sore muscles, and a slight headache. lol WTF!! I'm probably going to eliminate the multi from my diet for now but I don't know if that's a good idea. I wish I knew what it was that caused the weird reaction - normally I take it at night with my trazodone


I take magnesium malate with it, and have recently got my hands on some modafinil and noopept to help me stay focussed at work because its boring as **** !!

No idea why a multivit would cause a rise in BP, probably unrelated but if you are eating fine then you dont need a multivit anyway so dont think it would cause a problem if you stop.

Are you still measuring your BP all the time ? How is the trazodone doing for you? Any other benefits taking it apart from sleep?


----------



## UKguy

SFC01 said:


> Ok mate, yeah parnate is the obvious next choice but check out sparky10's "Parnate to be withdrawn from the UK" thread. And of course, I will get a sutable actor to play you in the film, I was thinking Julian Clary maybe?


If it is actually being totally withdrawn... I suspect it is more to do with some CCGs trying to restrict the prescription of it due to cost concerns... so introducing a post code lottery. It is already on the list of 'less suitable' medications to prescribe in my area.

I have a feeling I may have to do the opposite of Vibzz and go to Nardil anyway. I'm only on 20mg of Parnate and yet every time I take the second dose my BP is going up (not hugely) but more concerning is the slow heart rate and uncomfortable sensations that trigger me to check my BP in the first place.


----------



## UKguy

The Parnate situation is bonkers anyway. £235 for 28 tablets appears to be the cost to the NHS. Yet it appears I can order online from a seemingly legit Canadian pharmacy (prescription required) £65 for 100 pills.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Are you using the archimedes brand, that need to be refrigerated? If you do - just tell your doc that you accidentally left it in room temperature for a day or so, and that you would need another prescription.


Yeah archimedes. I can feel it at this dose, have done 105mg today.

The new doctor today was a bit overwhelmed by me, she was quite rude to be fair and even said herself when I left. I said to her well you have actually helped me out more than the other surgery helped me out in 6 months. I asked for co-codamol for my pain, she gave me 15mg codeine 100mg paracetamol. I did two straight away, I'm not sure if its the codeine or the mix of high dosage nardil but i feel kinda high lol.

Man it was hard work getting up this morning...i didn't go to sleep till 4am due to nardil. This dose has instantly brought back anargasmia and really yellow wee wee, haven't pood today i dont think, don't worry though @Tandorini im sure it will happen soon enough then you can weigh it and study it and do you thang lol.

um my mood today has been pretty ok, pretty calm. even in the doctors surgery.

Anyhoo she said no to parnate until the pdoc is sorted. she said she is going to get it done this week, we will see. I will ring the pman end of week and speak to her hot sounding secretary who i have high hopes of wanting to be T bagged when we meet lol....also hoping my pdoc is a sexy mature or something who wants to moleste me, I wont put up much of a fight as im taking my clothes off lol.

umm as you can tell im just a little bit fubared and talking sh1t. i'm not going to blame this on the boogie, which seems to be the done thing these days, I think its down to the co-coddy.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> hot sounding secretary who i have high hopes of wanting to be T bagged when we meet lol....also hoping my pdoc is a sexy mature or something who wants to moleste me, I wont put up much of a fight as im taking my clothes off lol.


:grin2:

Prepare for it, but dont pin your hopes on it ! But if it happens, guess where I`m booking my next appointment haha.

Dont go mad with tha cocoddy though due to the paracetemol, although it can be extracted quite easily so you get pure coddy and no paracetty.

I got 100-150mg a day of pure codeine prescribed when I ****ed my elbow up, bang 200-300 mills of that down and you get a top buzz for a bit. As far as I know opiates are not addictive and quite harmless so I knew I was in safe territory


----------



## V1bzz

Ok this is my plan of action!

As it seems building from a low dose and up isn't getting me MAOI inhibition i'm going to stay at 105 mg for as long as I can, hopefully at least 7 days then I will drop to 60 mg and hold.

My bloated stomach that i had pretty much got rid of is back already but it's possible that's because i just ate a big *** tub of ice cream lol...i am feeling pretty full up.

My wieght is also down to 13 stone 5 now get in 

Lets see if me doing it completely the wrong way works...weirdly enough i am feeling more energetic (possibly the codeine?) and feeling more calm and controlled.

wish me luck mo fo's, I have 2 weeks before I will have to ake a change if it doesnt work!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2:
> 
> Prepare for it, but dont pin your hopes on it ! But if it happens, guess where I`m booking my next appointment haha.
> 
> Dont go mad with tha cocoddy though due to the paracetemol, although it can be extracted quite easily so you get pure coddy and no paracetty.
> 
> I got 100-150mg a day of pure codeine prescribed when I ****ed my elbow up, bang 200-300 mills of that down and you get a top buzz for a bit. As far as I know opiates are not addictive and quite harmless so I knew I was in safe territory


Us old skool ravers think exactly the same, i have already been thinking of how to extract the codeine lol.
and yup, i dont take paracetamol ever because I have prob caused enough damage from stupid over doses of the stuff yrs ago.

how did you extract it? do tell :nerd:
@watertouch where are you dude, hope you are ok. it's your SAS mum here, do let us know how you are getting on or no morning chubby for you, I will demand the universe to not allow it to happen >


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> I take magnesium malate with it, and have recently got my hands on some modafinil and noopept to help me stay focussed at work because its boring as **** !!
> 
> No idea why a multivit would cause a rise in BP, probably unrelated but if you are eating fine then you dont need a multivit anyway so dont think it would cause a problem if you stop.
> 
> Are you still measuring your BP all the time ? How is the trazodone doing for you? Any other benefits taking it apart from sleep?


Yeah the whole BP thing was weird yesterday.. I don't know if it means anything or if it was all in my head. I haven't been measuring my BP at all so that's a relief, I was going crazy on the Parnate with the whole BP measuring stuff. I don't know what, if anything the trazodone is doing lol. I take it at 50 mg for sleep and have for about 5 months now.

Today is about one week down at 45 mg Nardil for me. I just picked up my prescription too and noticed they changed it from Gavis to Greenstone. I noticed a bunch of people saying one is better and then others saying the other is better. So who knows, I'll just take it tomorrow and we'll see what happens.

So far with Nardil at 45 mg for a week, I've noticed a definite increase in energy but I've also been sleeping worse (which I thought would be the other way around). I'm still having a bit of sexual dysfunction but it's almost back to normal there. Mood and anxiety are about the same as 52.5 mg but I guess I'll really know if that's going to change in another week because of the whole 14 day MAOI deal.

I can't decide if I want to try and move up to 52.5 mg or even 60 mg. I was hoping I wouldn't get side effects but they came with a bam after two weeks on 52.5. Maybe they will be less if I try and move up again?


----------



## V1bzz

This dose has brought back for me very quickly the 'dont want to sleep because its wasting time' phase, I fee really upbeat right now and could stay awake all night. Im also feeling hot, when nardil is doing something i always feel damn hot at this time of night. Felt cold as fook earlier so took a shower, always works for me in getting that cold low bp chill off the bones.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Us old skool ravers think exactly the same, i have already been thinking of how to extract the codeine lol.
> and yup, i dont take paracetamol ever because I have prob caused enough damage from stupid over doses of the stuff yrs ago.
> 
> how did you extract it? do tell :nerd:


:grin2:

I have never done it, as knowing me and my scientific skills, probably would have ****ed it up but you crush it and put it in a bowl of cold water and weight for a bit. One of the ingredients floats to the top, and the other sinks to the bottom - cant remember which one. Just google it.

The above might not be 100% accurate but I remember it wasn't anymore complicated, and everyone on that forum I was reading were saying how easy it is.

Yeah @watertouch, where are you mate, stop wanking all day and get in contact with me or @V1bzz as your two better looking brothers from other mothers are worried about you.


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

V1bzz said:


> Hi all, I have had to make this thread because I have not been able to find anythinelse on the forum of people feeling like I do on Nardil.
> I'm on my 6th dose of 45mg and every day I just feel horrible on it, I feel high but not in a good way. I have no energy. My pupils are tiny. The feelings are similar to how I felt once the days after an overdose and this worries me.
> 
> Do I need to stop taking this med? or do i just need to chill and let it get into my system.
> 
> It's got so bad now where I don't think I should even drive my car now. I stumble about. It takes me ages to write stuff online as I have to keep checking my spelling for the frequent mistake. I just totally feel on edge and unwell at the moment.
> 
> I don't want to give up on this and won't because i want to get well, just need to know this is not unusual and it will pass.
> 
> Thanks to anyone who replies.


In the studies that have been done on this drug with people suffering from social anxiety disorder, it seems that there is a small 30% out of the 70% that it worked for that could not take the side effects. I hope your not a part of that 30% but i am just saying its possible, drugs do affect everyone differently.


----------



## SFC01

thelastsamurai said:


> In the studies that have been done on this drug with people suffering from social anxiety disorder, it seems that there is a small 30% out of the 70% that it worked for that could not take the side effects. I hope your not a part of that 30% but i am just saying its possible, drugs do affect everyone differently.


True but @V1bzz knows that as I think I mentioned it to him once that....

I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE SIDE EFFECT FROM NARDIL

sorry V1bzz mate, just in case you had forgotten because you know I dont like to talk about it much.

but yes, @thelastsamurai, its strange how these things work, we are all made differently I suppose. Have you been on nardil?


----------



## Tandorini

My psychologist is getting on my nerves now. Everytime I mention something about fatigue, he'll be like "So yeah, you still see the fatigue being connected to the Nardil, do you?". I don't see why he has to bring up that question all the time. He says that there can be loads of reasons for fatigue. That even me getting better could cause fatigue. And yeah, maybe. I dunno. But:

60 mg, slight fatigue. Two days at 75 mg, I have two hour long naps every day. 5 days after reducing from 75 to 60, I no longer nap. How can anyone doubt that the fatigue is a side effect of Nardil? 

He doesn't argue with me or anything. He just raises the question a lot, backing off when I tell him how clear it is to me. I keep reminding him how I slept all day at 90 mg, and he'll be like "okay, okay, I don't mean to doubt you, I just want you to remember that things happen for different reasos", and then we talk about something else.

Next time, same ****. He doesn't know much about medication either, I think. He called the SSRI's "mood stabilizers" yesterday. (In Norway, "mood stabilizers" are what we call the epilepsy medicine that's used for bipolar and depression, i.e. lamictal, orfiril and such. 

I hate it when people who don't know what they are talking about feel the need to have an opinion on the topic.

Nah, he's nice enough I suppose. I just get easily annoyed when people say stuff about Nardil that they cannot possibly know anything about. 

Going to see a dermatologist today, I have some recurrent peeling on my fingers (only my thumbs and index fingers, weirdly enough) that my GP and his collegae couldn't figure out what was. I got a letter from the hospital telling me I was booked with "Doctor with medicine students", and that it would take about an hour. Dunno if it's bad news or good news, that all the students are gonna watch. Easy enough for the students to figure out, or weird enough that they wanna show as much people as possible? 

It's been ages since I went to a specialist's appointment for something other than psychiatric disorder, it feels kinda weird. Looking forward to maybe getting some treatment for the peeling skin, though. It's really annoying when it's at it's worst.


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> My psychologist is getting on my nerves now. Everytime I mention something about fatigue, he'll be like "So yeah, you still see the fatigue being connected to the Nardil, do you?". I don't see why he has to bring up that question all the time. He says that there can be loads of reasons for fatigue. That even me getting better could cause fatigue. And yeah, maybe. I dunno. But:
> 
> 60 mg, slight fatigue. Two days at 75 mg, I have two hour long naps every day. 5 days after reducing from 75 to 60, I no longer nap. How can anyone doubt that the fatigue is a side effect of Nardil?
> 
> He doesn't argue with me or anything. He just raises the question a lot, backing off when I tell him how clear it is to me. I keep reminding him how I slept all day at 90 mg, and he'll be like "okay, okay, I don't mean to doubt you, I just want you to remember that things happen for different reasos", and then we talk about something else.
> 
> Next time, same ****. He doesn't know much about medication either, I think. He called the SSRI's "mood stabilizers" yesterday. (In Norway, "mood stabilizers" are what we call the epilepsy medicine that's used for bipolar and depression, i.e. lamictal, orfiril and such.
> 
> I hate it when people who don't know what they are talking about feel the need to have an opinion on the topic.
> 
> Nah, he's nice enough I suppose. I just get easily annoyed when people say stuff about Nardil that they cannot possibly know anything about.
> 
> Going to see a dermatologist today, I have some recurrent peeling on my fingers (only my thumbs and index fingers, weirdly enough) that my GP and his collegae couldn't figure out what was. I got a letter from the hospital telling me I was booked with "Doctor with medicine students", and that it would take about an hour. Dunno if it's bad news or good news, that all the students are gonna watch. Easy enough for the students to figure out, or weird enough that they wanna show as much people as possible?
> 
> It's been ages since I went to a specialist's appointment for something other than psychiatric disorder, it feels kinda weird. Looking forward to maybe getting some treatment for the peeling skin, though. It's really annoying when it's at it's worst.


 @Tandorini - good luck! Hope everything goes well at the appointment today. Keep us updated on how it goes.

I'm currently on 75mg too - still struggling with fatigue and staying awake at work. I go through phases where I literally can't keep my eyes open, then 20 min later I feel awake. This week is a relatively easy week at work. The boss is gone, we're not busy, and the work is super monotonous.. so needless to say, it's almost too relaxing this week. That's when I nod off throughout the day, sometimes falling asleep for 10 minutes at a time. Last night I went to bed at 7:30pm and woke up at 4:30am. I'm so freakin sleepy when I get off work. The caffeine pills are effective, however they only work a couple hours, then I desperately need a nap again.

TMI alert - Because I woke up at 4:30 and felt wide awake, I decided to give it a try. Hadn't tried it 3 weeks. Well, who would've thought - 20 minutes later, success! I was running late to work too but got to work on time.. and boy did I feel like going back to bed.

Quick question: When you dropped from 75 to 60, you said you no longer needed a nap. Did it also fix your anorgasmia? I was planning on reducing dose from 75 to 60 next week, however since I was able to do the deed this morning maybe I should just stick with 75.


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> TMI alert - Because I woke up at 4:30 and felt wide awake, I decided to give it a try. Hadn't tried it 3 weeks. Well, who would've thought - 20 minutes later, success!


:grin2:

You have more patience than I would have had and bigger forearms too.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> @*Tandorini* - good luck! Hope everything goes well at the appointment today. Keep us updated on how it goes.
> 
> I'm currently on 75mg too - still struggling with fatigue and staying awake at work. I go through phases where I literally can't keep my eyes open, then 20 min later I feel awake. This week is a relatively easy week at work. The boss is gone, we're not busy, and the work is super monotonous.. so needless to say, it's almost too relaxing this week. That's when I nod off throughout the day, sometimes falling asleep for 10 minutes at a time. Last night I went to bed at 7:30pm and woke up at 4:30am. I'm so freakin sleepy when I get off work. The caffeine pills are effective, however they only work a couple hours, then I desperately need a nap again.
> 
> TMI alert - Because I woke up at 4:30 and felt wide awake, I decided to give it a try. Hadn't tried it 3 weeks. Well, who would've thought - 20 minutes later, success! I was running late to work too but got to work on time.. and boy did I feel like going back to bed.
> 
> Quick question: When you dropped from 75 to 60, you said you no longer needed a nap. Did it also fix your anorgasmia? I was planning on reducing dose from 75 to 60 next week, however since I was able to do the deed this morning maybe I should just stick with 75.


It went okay, I suppose. I had already googled my own diagnosis (Exfoliative keratolysis), and they agreed. Not much to do about it, but I got advice on what kind of emollients to use. They talked about doing a biopsy, but decided it probably wouldn't make a difference, as the case was quite clear. (Only later on I realised that with Nardil you can't use the standard local anaesthetic for that, I would probably have forgotten about that.) Anyway, they took some photos of my finger tips and told me to come back in three months. Dunno why, really. Well, it's close to where I work, I can walk indoor to the clinic, so it's no big hazzle.

My anorgasmia was one of the few side effects that actually went away. I guess it lasted about months while I was at 60 mg. When I started 75 mg I didn't have any problems with anorgasmia.


----------



## cigpk

How much of a difference did you all notice between 45 mg and 60 mg?


----------



## V1bzz

Ok I've been dying to make this update all day...

My dose = x4 early morning, x3 between 1-2pm

After my first dose this morning for the first time ever on Nardil I could feel its antidepressive effects, I felt calmer and chattier. It has been a very odd day for me today as I have felt fubared all day, high as fluck!! The radio was on and I was loving every song that came on, was singing away and doing little driving dances.

In the dept this morning I honestly felt like I had taken an illegal drug, I kept getting confused every now and then, had gammy mouth and was licking my lips. scanned and numbered my load for the day in the calmest way ever, I honestly felt like i was on another planet lol. I'm guessing this is how I was supposed to feel when I first took nardil. did any of you though feel really high?

I worked 12 hrs today and i dont know where the day went, I still feel fcuked now. I mst have looked like a right druggie to some of the customers.

I have literally felt like this all day. I also think taking co codamol on it just took it to another level.
For you guys that can't sleep get some cocodamol asap and do about 5 of the bads.

Guys I finally think Nardil is working for me the way it should have. I just knew inside that I needed really high doses, I don't think i get the whole dose because i think somehow my body blocks most of it but at this dose now enough is getting through.

Not sure how im going to be able to keep taking this dose but I believe I am finally there. I will stop feeling fubared soon a just feel all the goodness that nardil gives.

I was bombing about on my job today with loads of energy, I was chatting up milfs and gilfs. I ended up getting an hour behind on my delivery slots cos i was talking too much **** at each house. I actually looked forward to getting to the next delivery to talk nonsense lol.

On the way home it was dark and i had to stop a couple of times because i felt so high i couldnt make out what the frig was going on. I was mr sunday driver 40 mph all the way home tonight haha.

to you guys with pdocs. do you think a pdoc is able to prescribe such high doses?

will update tomorrow again as i have in the past, i'm gunna sleep like a mo fo tonight thats for sure.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> Ok I've been dying to make this update all day...
> 
> My dose = x4 early morning, x3 between 1-2pm
> 
> After my first dose this morning for the first time ever on Nardil I could feel its antidepressive effects, I felt calmer and chattier. It has been a very odd day for me today as I have felt fubared all day, high as fluck!! The radio was on and I was loving every song that came on, was singing away and doing little driving dances.
> 
> In the dept this morning I honestly felt like I had taken an illegal drug, I kept getting confused every now and then, had gammy mouth and was licking my lips. scanned and numbered my load for the day in the calmest way ever, I honestly felt like i was on another planet lol. I'm guessing this is how I was supposed to feel when I first took nardil. did any of you though feel really high?
> 
> I worked 12 hrs today and i dont know where the day went, I still feel fcuked now. I mst have looked like a right druggie to some of the customers.
> 
> I have literally felt like this all day. I also think taking co codamol on it just took it to another level.
> For you guys that can't sleep get some cocodamol asap and do about 5 of the bads.
> 
> Guys I finally think Nardil is working for me the way it should have. I just knew inside that I needed really high doses, I don't think i get the whole dose because i think somehow my body blocks most of it but at this dose now enough is getting through.
> 
> Not sure how im going to be able to keep taking this dose but I believe I am finally there. I will stop feeling fubared soon a just feel all the goodness that nardil gives.
> 
> I was bombing about on my job today with loads of energy, I was chatting up milfs and gilfs. I ended up getting an hour behind on my delivery slots cos i was talking too much **** at each house. I actually looked forward to getting to the next delivery to talk nonsense lol.
> 
> On the way home it was dark and i had to stop a couple of times because i felt so high i couldnt make out what the frig was going on. I was mr sunday driver 40 mph all the way home tonight haha.
> 
> to you guys with pdocs. do you think a pdoc is able to prescribe such high doses?
> 
> will update tomorrow again as i have in the past, i'm gunna sleep like a mo fo tonight thats for sure.


Haha sh!t son that makes me wanna increase my dose from 45 mg. I do think it's working at this dose but I have noticed a little bit of my isolating behaviors returning. I'm going to try my best to stick it out at 45 mg. I'm one week in today. I guess if all else fails, I could increase up to 60 and then drop back down to 52.5 mg if side effects get too bothersome.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Ok I've been dying to make this update all day...
> 
> My dose = x4 early morning, x3 between 1-2pm
> 
> After my first dose this morning for the first time ever on Nardil I could feel its antidepressive effects, I felt calmer and chattier. It has been a very odd day for me today as I have felt fubared all day, high as fluck!! The radio was on and I was loving every song that came on, was singing away and doing little driving dances.
> 
> In the dept this morning I honestly felt like I had taken an illegal drug, I kept getting confused every now and then, had gammy mouth and was licking my lips. scanned and numbered my load for the day in the calmest way ever, I honestly felt like i was on another planet lol. I'm guessing this is how I was supposed to feel when I first took nardil. did any of you though feel really high?
> 
> I worked 12 hrs today and i dont know where the day went, I still feel fcuked now. I mst have looked like a right druggie to some of the customers.
> 
> I have literally felt like this all day. I also think taking co codamol on it just took it to another level.
> For you guys that can't sleep get some cocodamol asap and do about 5 of the bads.
> 
> Guys I finally think Nardil is working for me the way it should have. I just knew inside that I needed really high doses, I don't think i get the whole dose because i think somehow my body blocks most of it but at this dose now enough is getting through.
> 
> Not sure how im going to be able to keep taking this dose but I believe I am finally there. I will stop feeling fubared soon a just feel all the goodness that nardil gives.
> 
> I was bombing about on my job today with loads of energy, I was chatting up milfs and gilfs. I ended up getting an hour behind on my delivery slots cos i was talking too much **** at each house. I actually looked forward to getting to the next delivery to talk nonsense lol.
> 
> On the way home it was dark and i had to stop a couple of times because i felt so high i couldnt make out what the frig was going on. I was mr sunday driver 40 mph all the way home tonight haha.
> 
> to you guys with pdocs. do you think a pdoc is able to prescribe such high doses?
> 
> will update tomorrow again as i have in the past, i'm gunna sleep like a mo fo tonight thats for sure.


Show a pdoc this post, and they would never prescribe it :grin2:

All the pdocs I've been talking to here (four or five I suppose, if I include the ones at the hospital ward) say that 60 is the standard max, but you can go as high as 90. They all would prescribe up to 90 mg if 60 mg didn't do the trick. I think there's no chance in hell they would prescribe anything higher than that. But they all have very limited experience with Nardil, they would never dare do much outside the books, I guess.

I am quite sure I wouldn't get any of them to prescribe anything that comes up as possibly interacting with Nardil either. I remember being at the hospital, after starting Nardil, they would strichtly keep me on the Nardil diet. Now I hardly even think about it, I just eat whatever I want.

Speaking of the diet, what do you guys reckon about this dish? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnekjøtt

We're having a Christmas party at work, and that's one of the meals to choose from. We have to decide in advance. I really wanna have it, but I am not sure if it's a good idea or not. I will also be drinking quite a lot of alcohol that night. Would you have eaten that dish, or rather gone with something "safer"?


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Show a pdoc this post, and they would never prescribe it :grin2:
> 
> All the pdocs I've been talking to here (four or five I suppose, if I include the ones at the hospital ward) say that 60 is the standard max, but you can go as high as 90. They all would prescribe up to 90 mg if 60 mg didn't do the trick. I think there's no chance in hell they would prescribe anything higher than that. But they all have very limited experience with Nardil, they would never dare do much outside the books, I guess.
> 
> I am quite sure I wouldn't get any of them to prescribe anything that comes up as possibly interacting with Nardil either. I remember being at the hospital, after starting Nardil, they would strichtly keep me on the Nardil diet. Now I hardly even think about it, I just eat whatever I want.
> 
> Speaking of the diet, what do you guys reckon about this dish? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnekjøtt
> 
> We're having a Christmas party at work, and that's one of the meals to choose from. We have to decide in advance. I really wanna have it, but I am not sure if it's a good idea or not. I will also be drinking quite a lot of alcohol that night. Would you have eaten that dish, or rather gone with something "safer"?


What other dishes can you choose? If you'd rather eat that dish, it seems okay to me. It's not like you'll be eating it 2 nights in a row. Just take a few bites first and see how you feel. You can also contact Ken Gillman and ask him.

I believe I had my first hypertensive episode last week. I had to go to a dinner party on Tuesday night. On Monday night I had 2 beers and felt fine. The next night at the dinner party I was half-way through my first Heineken and suddenly experienced one of the worst headaches I've ever had. I figured it was an episode and would eventually pass. I didn't drink any more alcohol, the headache lasted 20 minutes and then went away. If I had kept drinking, I believe I would've been in serious trouble.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Ok I've been dying to make this update all day...
> 
> My dose = x4 early morning, x3 between 1-2pm
> 
> After my first dose this morning for the first time ever on Nardil I could feel its antidepressive effects, I felt calmer and chattier. It has been a very odd day for me today as I have felt fubared all day, high as fluck!! The radio was on and I was loving every song that came on, was singing away and doing little driving dances.
> 
> In the dept this morning I honestly felt like I had taken an illegal drug, I kept getting confused every now and then, had gammy mouth and was licking my lips. scanned and numbered my load for the day in the calmest way ever, I honestly felt like i was on another planet lol. I'm guessing this is how I was supposed to feel when I first took nardil. did any of you though feel really high?
> 
> I worked 12 hrs today and i dont know where the day went, I still feel fcuked now. I mst have looked like a right druggie to some of the customers.
> 
> I have literally felt like this all day. I also think taking co codamol on it just took it to another level.
> For you guys that can't sleep get some cocodamol asap and do about 5 of the bads.
> 
> Guys I finally think Nardil is working for me the way it should have. I just knew inside that I needed really high doses, I don't think i get the whole dose because i think somehow my body blocks most of it but at this dose now enough is getting through.
> 
> Not sure how im going to be able to keep taking this dose but I believe I am finally there. I will stop feeling fubared soon a just feel all the goodness that nardil gives.
> 
> I was bombing about on my job today with loads of energy, I was chatting up milfs and gilfs. I ended up getting an hour behind on my delivery slots cos i was talking too much **** at each house. I actually looked forward to getting to the next delivery to talk nonsense lol.
> 
> On the way home it was dark and i had to stop a couple of times because i felt so high i couldnt make out what the frig was going on. I was mr sunday driver 40 mph all the way home tonight haha.
> 
> to you guys with pdocs. do you think a pdoc is able to prescribe such high doses?
> 
> will update tomorrow again as i have in the past, i'm gunna sleep like a mo fo tonight thats for sure.


Great post, mate! That's 4 amazing days. I honestly think you'll have more of them. It's hard to figure out what dose to take, especially when the medical community knows nothing about the drug. If there's no adverse effects and you can afford this dose over a long period of time, why not stay with it? You can even drop down 1/2 pill each 2 weeks until you feel it not working.. then go back up one more 1/2 pill per day and see if that's your sweet spot.

I feel great for you, man! There's nothing better than that feeling where you look forward to talking with someone. I'm not feeling like that today. Some days I feel like that, like searching out anyone to chat with, which is completely amazing and foreign to me.

I never experienced that in my life before I took Nardil. It's definitely not psychological or situational. Every day before Nardil I'd get that sick anxiety feeling throughout my body when I left home. It was even worse if I had to talk to someone. It felt like an earthquake inside my body, I was always nervous and panicking, and all the physical symptoms that come along with anxiety were wreaking havoc on my health. The SA was killing me. Now I feel nothing like I did before. I feel calm, relaxed and confident. The nasty side effects are all subsiding. The 80% reduction in SA is the real deal.. in no way is it psychological or circumstance.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> What other dishes can you choose? If you'd rather eat that dish, it seems okay to me. It's not like you'll be eating it 2 nights in a row. Just take a few bites first and see how you feel. You can also contact Ken Gillman and ask him.
> 
> I believe I had my first hypertensive episode last week. I had to go to a dinner party on Tuesday night. On Monday night I had 2 beers and felt fine. The next night at the dinner party I was half-way through my first Heineken and suddenly experienced one of the worst headaches I've ever had. I figured it was an episode and would eventually pass. I didn't drink any more alcohol, the headache lasted 20 minutes and then went away. If I had kept drinking, I believe I would've been in serious trouble.


There are other dishes to choose from, that I know to be safe. I would just really like that "pinnekjøtt"-dish 

I have noticed how after a few drinks I totally lose control over the diet restrictions, so it's a little silly eating risky food prior on a night I know there will be plenty of alcohol involved.


----------



## cigpk

@V1bzz how is the higher dose going man?

Also - how do you guys get consistently good sleep on Nardil? I have been on trazodone 50 mg for a couple months now but can't seem to fall asleep anymore. I also find myself waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep. Going back down to 45 mg hasn't helped.. if anything it made trying to fall asleep more difficult. I don't know if I have built a tolerance to trazodone or what.. Maybe I need to go back to seroquel instead?

Anyone have luck with doxylamin succinate? I also have doxepin and mirtazepine on hand but I don't feel as though these are as strong of sleep aides as trazodone. Tomorrow will be day 10 back on 45 mg so I'm thinking my sleep should at least be stabilizing a little better?

I'm also considering taking agmatine at night as it's supposed to help with deeper sleep and maybe it could lower my tolerance to trazodone.


----------



## V1bzz

I had to go back to 52.5, the narcolepsy at 105 has been horrendous the last two days, i've been doing an @WillComp. I was making a roll up a few minutes ago then suddenly awoke by my head dropping forward. I took 5 energy tablets to no effect. I used to be able to take 2 to wake myself up. I was driving today and my eyes were rolling and hardly open like i was stones (its just about to happen again ffs).

I have an appointment with the pdoc on 3rd nov 7pm. They new doctor sent off a referal and booked me in. Not bad going from 1 ten minute appointment with her 

christ this was so hard to write!


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> @V1bzz how is the higher dose going man?
> 
> Also - how do you guys get consistently good sleep on Nardil? I have been on trazodone 50 mg for a couple months now but can't seem to fall asleep anymore. I also find myself waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep. Going back down to 45 mg hasn't helped.. if anything it made trying to fall asleep more difficult. I don't know if I have built a tolerance to trazodone or what.. Maybe I need to go back to seroquel instead?
> 
> Anyone have luck with doxylamin succinate? I also have doxepin and mirtazepine on hand but I don't feel as though these are as strong of sleep aides as trazodone. Tomorrow will be day 10 back on 45 mg so I'm thinking my sleep should at least be stabilizing a little better?
> 
> I'm also considering taking agmatine at night as it's supposed to help with deeper sleep and maybe it could lower my tolerance to trazodone.


Try taking co-codamol 20 mins before you go to bed. i've always been able to sleep great on nardil. it got rid pf my hot restless feet and i get in bed and am gone 5-10mins later.


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> @*V1bzz* how is the higher dose going man?
> 
> I don't know if I have built a tolerance to trazodone or what.. Maybe I need to go back to seroquel instead?
> 
> Anyone have luck with doxylamin succinate? I also have doxepin and mirtazepine on hand but I don't feel as though these are as strong of sleep aides as trazodone. Tomorrow will be day 10 back on 45 mg so I'm thinking my sleep should at least be stabilizing a little better?


I definitely built tolerance to trazodone, and quite quickly too. Doxylamin succinate is a antihistamine right? Never tried doxepin but for me mirtazapine was way more sedating than trazodone. Why dont you cycle traz/Seroquel/Doxepin/Doxylamin/Mirt, maybe a week on each or a few days on each. May help stop you from building tolerance.

Can you get etizolam where you are ? Thats good for sleep with a short half life so could be handy when you wake up in the middle of the night, without feeling groggy the next day. It is a benzo analogue so obviously comes with the same issues benzo's have.


----------



## cigpk

SFC01 said:


> I definitely built tolerance to trazodone, and quite quickly too. Doxylamin succinate is a antihistamine right? Never tried doxepin but for me mirtazapine was way more sedating than trazodone. Why dont you cycle traz/Seroquel/Doxepin/Doxylamin/Mirt, maybe a week on each or a few days on each. May help stop you from building tolerance.
> 
> Can you get etizolam where you are ? Thats good for sleep with a short half life so could be handy when you wake up in the middle of the night, without feeling groggy the next day. It is a benzo analogue so obviously comes with the same issues benzo's have.


Yeah I definitely thought about cycling.. I actually have a prescription of 30mg remeron left over so I was thinking about splitting the pills up into just 7.5 mg and maybe trying that on top of the trazodone. My only concern is that my doc won't prescribe anything for sleep other than trazodone or seroquel (nothing benzo-like because of my history of drug abuse, which I am fine with that). So anything I add to trazodone will likely not be for the long term. I could maybe even add just 3.25 mg remeron and see if that helps at all.

I am thinking about increasing my nardil again in a week or so but I'd really like for my sleep patterns to stabilize first. I thought I would start sleeping better when I decreased down to 45 mg but that hasn't happened yet.. it has just been the opposite.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> @*V1bzz* how is the higher dose going man?
> 
> Also - how do you guys get consistently good sleep on Nardil? I have been on trazodone 50 mg for a couple months now but can't seem to fall asleep anymore. I also find myself waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep. Going back down to 45 mg hasn't helped.. if anything it made trying to fall asleep more difficult. I don't know if I have built a tolerance to trazodone or what.. Maybe I need to go back to seroquel instead?
> 
> Anyone have luck with doxylamin succinate? I also have doxepin and mirtazepine on hand but I don't feel as though these are as strong of sleep aides as trazodone. Tomorrow will be day 10 back on 45 mg so I'm thinking my sleep should at least be stabilizing a little better?
> 
> I'm also considering taking agmatine at night as it's supposed to help with deeper sleep and maybe it could lower my tolerance to trazodone.


What I hate is that I can never sleep any longer than 6 or 7 hours. If I am really tired and go to bed early, maybe falling asleep at 10pm, I'll be awake from 5am. Before Nardil, if I was really tired, I could sleep maybe 12-13 hours from time to time, if I was really tired. But then again, it seems like I get enough rest on 6-7 hours.

I take seroquel at night (200 mg), it helps me. I have no trouble falling asleep, the problem is I wake up way too early. Last night I started waking up at around 3.30 am, my legs were restless and I had to get up and walk around for a while. I remember when I was bothered with low blood pressure, and tried walking around at night. That was quite risky, I fell over a few times. Seroquel is the best medicine I've ever taken for sleep. It doesn't necessarily keep me asleep all night, but it keeps me quite calm, being able to relax in bed. (Well, now with the Nardil, my body is restless, so I can't always relax anyway.)

I tried doxylamine, but got really restless from it. But I have had luck with antihistamines before. I am guessing longlasting stuff, like antihistamines are a good choice with Nardil sleeping problems, at least for me, as I don't have trouble falling asleep, the problem is waking up way too early. If I take anything shortlasting (ambien-like stuff) I still wake up early.

Hey, guess what I noticed, guys? I am hardly ever twitching/jerking anymore! It used to be really bothersome. When I relaxed I would get these jerks all the time. It was really embarassing in my yoga classes for instance, as it would look like I was falling asleep, while I was really just resting.


----------



## Tandorini

Have you guys had any vaccinations after starting Nardil?

When you get a flu shot for instance, they always keep an epipen (adrenaline) ready in case you get an allergic reaction to the shot. But we shouldn't have adrenaline, should we?

Working as a nurse I usually get the flu shot at work every year, to protect both myself and my patients. This year I am very uncertain of what to do. I've never had an allergic reaction to vaccines before, so there probably will be no need for the epipen, but I can't "trick" someone into giving me the shot without telling them that they absolutely cannot give me adrenaline.

I tried calling the "vaccination office" in town, they were going to look into it. More than a week ago they called me back to tell me they hadn't forgotten about it, they were still working on it. I guess I should call them back some day.

I spent a few months in Nepal a couple of years ago, so I am up to date with most other vaccinations, and probably won't really need any for quite some time. But still, it would be nice to know.

Have any of you asked a doctor about this?


----------



## UKguy

Tandorini said:


> Have you guys had any vaccinations after starting Nardil?
> 
> When you get a flu shot for instance, they always keep an epipen (adrenaline) ready in case you get an allergic reaction to the shot. But we shouldn't have adrenaline, should we?
> 
> Working as a nurse I usually get the flu shot at work every year, to protect both myself and my patients. This year I am very uncertain of what to do. I've never had an allergic reaction to vaccines before, so there probably will be no need for the epipen, but I can't "trick" someone into giving me the shot without telling them that they absolutely cannot give me adrenaline.
> 
> I tried calling the "vaccination office" in town, they were going to look into it. More than a week ago they called me back to tell me they hadn't forgotten about it, they were still working on it. I guess I should call them back some day.
> 
> I spent a few months in Nepal a couple of years ago, so I am up to date with most other vaccinations, and probably won't really need any for quite some time. But still, it would be nice to know.
> 
> Have any of you asked a doctor about this?


Basically you have to weigh up the risk of not having the flu shot and having the flu shot and experiencing an allergic reaction (very rare I would have thought, what are the stats there?).

In Dr Gillman's 2017 MAOI monograph (full version), gives information about adrenaline.



> Pseudoephedrine and Ephedrine, the archetypal drugs of concern,
> are still available for general use in some countries, whereas in most
> they have been replaced by oxymetazoline (which does not interact
> with MAOIs). Previously they were components of cough and cold
> remedies. Reactions are unlikely to be severe or dangerous unless
> large (oral) doses are used (that usually means an overdose).
> 
> *Adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine) are,
> obviously, (because they are the body's neurotransmitters that act at
> these receptors) direct post-synaptic agonists and therefore do not
> cause any problematic interaction with MAOIs.* Equivocation about
> that has been evinced repeatedly over the years in most standard
> texts and has caused mistreatment of patients e.g. (329), yet the lack
> of an interaction was established at the dawn of modern
> pharmacology by researchers whose names are prominent in history
> (Gaddum and Brodie, among others), early papers being (330-332).
> That work has been forgotten. It is TCAs that have a more
> pronounced interaction with adrenaline, ironically I cannot recall
> anyone getting too worried about that.


 (page 40)

The above would appear to suggest it would be safe to get the epipen shot in the unlikely event of an allergic reaction anyway.


----------



## cigpk

So I know you guys are probably tired of me posting things about agmatine lol... But i tried it out last night since I read a lot of reviews on it being used for sleep. And it helped out very nicely!

I took about 750 mg before I ate dinner and I took my Trazodone/magnesium about 30 mins after dinner. When I was meditating about 1 hour later I nearly fell asleep, which has never happened before. I was out pretty quickly after that and slept a solid 5 hours before waking up once and then fell back asleep for about 2.5 more hours. The only downside is that I had that trazodone hangover feeling. I'm going to try it again tonight.


----------



## WillComp

Since I started Nardil back on March 29, I haven't had 1 night where I had trouble sleeping. If I wake up in the middle of the night, my first thought is I hope it's still early and I have several more hours of sleep. Then I look at the clock and hope it's before 4:00. If I can't go back to sleep, it's a good thing because time seems to slow down, which is exactly what I want. 


As for getting a flu shot, I thought about this earlier in the week when seeing a vaccine commercial. I remember in the past I had a flu shot and 1 month later got seriously sick. I haven't gotten a shot in 2 years and haven't gotten sick, until now. I'm hoping I'm not getting sick.. for 2 days I've had a nasty cold, terrible sold throat and feel achy all over. 


Of course I just want to sleep. As if I wasn't Mr. Narco before this week, I'm struggling to stay awake big time this week. On Tuesday I was in bumper to bumper traffic for about 20 minutes, and all the sudden that narcolepsy feeling came over me, that nasty feeling where it's inevitable your eyes are gonna close automatically. I fell asleep about 4 or 5 times - every time traffic came to a halt my eyes would automatically close and I'd fall asleep. I'd wake up a few seconds later and the car in front of me had moved up quite a distance. I'm going to have to see my doctor about this. I don't want to put anyone else's life in danger while I'm on the road. 


Why am I feeling so sedated this week? I though my sides were gone. Sadly this morning I was getting ready to leave the apartment for work, putting eye drops in my eyes when all the sudden I collapsed on the floor. Luckily I didn't hit anything, just the soft carpet. Just when I thought my sides were all subsiding, I get hit with all this shhht. Plus now I can barely swallow because of my sore throat. Can I take anything for this, like aspiring, or do I just have to wait till it passes?


----------



## cigpk

WillComp said:


> Since I started Nardil back on March 29, I haven't had 1 night where I had trouble sleeping. If I wake up in the middle of the night, my first thought is I hope it's still early and I have several more hours of sleep. Then I look at the clock and hope it's before 4:00. If I can't go back to sleep, it's a good thing because time seems to slow down, which is exactly what I want.
> 
> As for getting a flu shot, I thought about this earlier in the week when seeing a vaccine commercial. I remember in the past I had a flu shot and 1 month later got seriously sick. I haven't gotten a shot in 2 years and haven't gotten sick, until now. I'm hoping I'm not getting sick.. for 2 days I've had a nasty cold, terrible sold throat and feel achy all over.
> 
> Of course I just want to sleep. As if I wasn't Mr. Narco before this week, I'm struggling to stay awake big time this week. On Tuesday I was in bumper to bumper traffic for about 20 minutes, and all the sudden that narcolepsy feeling came over me, that nasty feeling where it's inevitable your eyes are gonna close automatically. I fell asleep about 4 or 5 times - every time traffic came to a halt my eyes would automatically close and I'd fall asleep. I'd wake up a few seconds later and the car in front of me had moved up quite a distance. I'm going to have to see my doctor about this. I don't want to put anyone else's life in danger while I'm on the road.
> 
> Why am I feeling so sedated this week? I though my sides were gone. Sadly this morning I was getting ready to leave the apartment for work, putting eye drops in my eyes when all the sudden I collapsed on the floor. Luckily I didn't hit anything, just the soft carpet. Just when I thought my sides were all subsiding, I get hit with all this shhht. Plus now I can barely swallow because of my sore throat. Can I take anything for this, like aspiring, or do I just have to wait till it passes?


Sorry to hear you're getting the sleepy sides again  you taking anything for the narcolepsy? I've noticed if I have a snus in while I'm driving, it wakes me right up (nicotine increases amount of MAOI in your system or something when combined with Nardil - it's more noticeable on Nardil at least). Although I know nicotine isn't for everyone.

are you still on 75 mg? Maybe drop by half a tablet if the narco doesn't go away? Although I know dropping the dose isn't really an appealing thing to do. I'm on 45 right now and already want to increase back up lol


----------



## WillComp

cigpk said:


> Sorry to hear you're getting the sleepy sides again  you taking anything for the narcolepsy? I've noticed if I have a snus in while I'm driving, it wakes me right up (nicotine increases amount of MAOI in your system or something when combined with Nardil - it's more noticeable on Nardil at least). Although I know nicotine isn't for everyone.
> 
> are you still on 75 mg? Maybe drop by half a tablet if the narco doesn't go away? Although I know dropping the dose isn't really an appealing thing to do. I'm on 45 right now and already want to increase back up lol


Yes, I'm still on 75 mg. The only think I take for the narcolepsy is caffeine. I've been taking 1 caffeine tablet in the morning and 1 in the afternoon on most days. It's effective but wears off quickly, then I'm back to nodding off. Everyone tells me to limit the amount of caffeine pills I take since you can become addicted, but I'd rather be fully awake at work or when I'm driving. Some days are better than others. Today was the first day in a week I didn't feel sedated. Never once did my eyes close. So I didn't need any caffeine pills today. And I'm still wide awake at 10:30. Who knows what the hell is going on? :stu


----------



## Tandorini

UKguy said:


> Basically you have to weigh up the risk of not having the flu shot and having the flu shot and experiencing an allergic reaction (very rare I would have thought, what are the stats there?).
> 
> In Dr Gillman's 2017 MAOI monograph (full version), gives information about adrenaline.
> 
> (page 40)
> 
> The above would appear to suggest it would be safe to get the epipen shot in the unlikely event of an allergic reaction anyway.


Well, I have to be honest to the person giving me the shot. Telling her that I really should not have adrenaline. I am quite sure I won't be needing it, but I would have been pretty mad if a patient just didn't tell me about her allergies, thinking she'll take the risk for both of us.

But yeah, looks like the epipen won't be too bad. Allthough this Gillmann guy has really studied stuff, and probably has come to some right conclusions, but still I don't think that the Norwegian health personell would do anything that goes against our guide lines. After all, it's following the guide lines that keeps us protected from getting the blame if anything should go wrong.


----------



## UKguy

Tandorini said:


> W*ell, I have to be honest to the person giving me the shot.* Telling her that I really should not have adrenaline. I am quite sure I won't be needing it, but I would have been pretty mad if a patient just didn't tell me about her allergies, thinking she'll take the risk for both of us.
> 
> But yeah, looks like the epipen won't be too bad. Allthough this Gillmann guy has really studied stuff, and probably has come to some right conclusions, but still I don't think that the Norwegian health personell would do anything that goes against our guide lines. After all, it's following the guide lines that keeps us protected from getting the blame if anything should go wrong.


Absolutely, I agree. I'm not suggesting you lie about anything.

Yeah all HCP will follow guidelines. The problem is guidelines can sometimes be misleading or just plain wrong.

My point mainly is all treatment is balancing up risk and reward. If you have the flu shot and in the unlikely event of an allergic reaction severe enough to require an Epipen shot then my guess is at that point any increased risk of having a hypertensive reaction due to Nardil would be pretty insignificant compared to immediate risk of dying from anaphylaxis.


----------



## Tandorini

UKguy said:


> Absolutely, I agree. I'm not suggesting you lie about anything.
> 
> Yeah all HCP will follow guidelines. The problem is guidelines can sometimes be misleading or just plain wrong.
> 
> My point mainly is all treatment is balancing up risk and reward. If you have the flu shot and in the unlikely event of an allergic reaction severe enough to require an Epipen shot then my guess is at that point any increased risk of having a hypertensive reaction due to Nardil would be pretty insignificant compared to immediate risk of dying from anaphylaxis.


I'm not scared of dying, or having a severe reaction, really. I just don't want anyone to know that they killed me by doing what they did. 

Oh well. Maybe I'll get an answer from the vaccinations office. If not, I might just tell the nurse at work that I have done some research, and that I found out the epipen won't kill me, but I will need to go by ambulance to the hospital immediatly, as I might have some adverse reaction. And then if she says she's not comfertable with that, I'll respect that and just not take the shot this year.

To tell the truth, I'd much rather be around my skilled collegaues, in the building 200 metres from A&E if I got really ill, than being at my GP's office, where they hardly ever handle emergency situations, and won't have that great routines for it.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey all, i'm back at 45mg for 2 days now. it is taking a while for that 105mg to get out of my system. After feeling good for two days the side effects kicked in and it was horrible. The pot belly came back pretty much immediately, like the photo i posted that time. Mr Narc hit me damn hard, so badly i would now advise nobody to ever go to 105 mg. It wasn't just moments any more of Mr narc turning up, it was a whole day event until I went to bed...but then it would be back a couple of hours after waking.
I'm finding it really hard to describe but its not a desirable place to be EVER!!
I'm pretty sure I fell asleep many times while driving, I would to be in constant border line of being awake and asleep then jerk and do something stupid like break really hard or put my hand in the air as if thanking another driver, just crazy ****.

It's a battle from a couple of hours after waking until you sleep to stay awake, i would get up, go to work, load my wagon then as soon as i started driving it would be game over for the whole day. fighting to keep eyes open and that nasty feeling in your body and the restless legs feeling.

ugh it was a total nightmare, i'm ready to come off nardil now. It did help me for many things but was unable to beat my more severe symptoms and only gave me 3 days relief from them. I don't know why my body won't let it work like that all the time.

It's not until you drop down in dose that you realise how much damage nardil is doing to your overall physical health. It's worth it if you feel that awesomeness kick in after taking but as you know I only got that for 3 days. It was enough motivation to try for a few more months.

arg its so frustrating to be teased with that and for it to be taken away, it really was like taking xtc and it gave me a life back for a few days where my thought process completely changed in a massively positive way. I wanted to do everything, nothing was too much.

anyway i must stop dwelling on that and move on, maybe parnate has the right combination to take me past 3 days and to finally get a life again.


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## V1bzz

It's very weird today because I took 45 mg this morning and am having more of an affect at this dose than I have ever had. I can feel it in my system big time and have slight hypotension and feel cold. Maybe just maybe my plan to blast the mao receptors at 105 mg worked. I've got 3 weeks now at this dose before I speak to the Pdoc so will keep you all updated if it finally works or not.

I defo feel better than I have at any other dose so far. I'm in my bedroom though, lets see how next week goes at work. 
Mr narc hasn't kicked in today yet, really hoping it's gone again now, everything i've been through on this drug I would probably say that was the worst but in a different way than all the other sides i had.

The narc has never been a feeling of tiredness for me, its something completely different, something really horrible.


----------



## Tandorini

Wow, you're really struggling with this. I agree, once you drop the dose you realise how bad the side effects have been. Only dropping from 75 to 60 was a huge relief for me. Makes me wonder what 45 feels like, but I'm gonna be good and listen to the docs and not reduce anymore without telling them


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Wow, you're really struggling with this. I agree, once you drop the dose you realise how bad the side effects have been. Only dropping from 75 to 60 was a huge relief for me. Makes me wonder what 45 feels like, but I'm gonna be good and listen to the docs and not reduce anymore without telling them


Yeah i'm ready to come off of it now I think. Have you guys noticed that when you cut yourself or graze, even light grave that the wound tends to become infected and gets really deep and nasty then heals and scars?
I have eczema and have noticed this on nardil. I will scratch and maybe remove the first layer of skin, nothing bad at all but then every single time it gets nasty and really sore, ends up going layers deeper then scars. my wrists look a mess with scars!

I have 3 weeks now at 45 before i see the pdoc, i currently have head shocks but the bloated belly is starting to go away again and my body just generally feels more flexible. My shaky hands are back though.

I really hope it just kicks in now at 45 mg. I have been reading about parnate and how it is better for depression than anxiety and how it causes a lot of people to get worse anxiety on it?

If 45 mg keeps the panic attacks away and most of the paranoia I think I will just ask the new Pdoc for something to take with 45 mg Nardil. Not really sure what to do now, I guess I have 3 weeks to decide.

I don't know why life can't just be simple for this one thing, take a tablet and start living again!!


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## WillComp

@Tandorini and @V1bzz and @Anyone_else :grin2: : I have a few questions - actually 9.

When you all dropped from 75mg, what was the main reason(s) you reduced your dose? Was it the intolerable side effects or because you didn't feel much reduction in SA?

For me, I'm thinking of dropping down from 75. I think the main reasons are anorgasmia and the hope that I could feel even better, further reduction in SA, than I do now. I've only been on 75 for 3 1/2 months. Should I wait a bit longer?

I'm the type of person that likes consistency. It's better to not take risks, i.e. if it's not broke, don't fix it (well, 1 thing is, but it's slowly recovering). If I dropped to 60, would my libido soar to what it was when I was 18?

Overall, I'm feeling great at 75.. but could I feel even better at 60? One definite benefit: I'd be saving more money each month.

Can anyone give me any insight or advice on what I should do? Should I wait a while longer before dropping to 60? Drop to 60 now? Stay at 75 forever? So many questions! Thanks for any responses in advance.


----------



## V1bzz

I can't really help @WillComp as nardil has never worked for me the same as the rest of you here. maybe @Tandorini or @SFC01 will be able to help you better.

I would say though, looking at it from someone who nardil has failed...if its working great for you at 75mg just bloody stay there man!

I would do anything to feel how you are feeling. Nardil did help me little bits in certain areas but mostly it has made me feel ill.
seems like its ot going to give me the 3 days again but forever. I'm slowly noticing the little things returning, all just adding on again to what i hoped nardil would fix.


----------



## SFC01

WillComp said:


> @*Tandorini* and @*V1bzz* and @*Anyone* _else :grin2: : I have a few questions - actually 9.
> 
> When you all dropped from 75mg, what was the main reason(s) you reduced your dose? Was it the intolerable side effects or because you didn't feel much reduction in SA?
> 
> For me, I'm thinking of dropping down from 75. I think the main reasons are anorgasmia and the hope that I could feel even better, further reduction in SA, than I do now. I've only been on 75 for 3 1/2 months. Should I wait a bit longer?
> 
> I'm the type of person that likes consistency. It's better to not take risks, i.e. if it's not broke, don't fix it (well, 1 thing is, but it's slowly recovering). If I dropped to 60, would my libido soar to what it was when I was 18?
> 
> Overall, I'm feeling great at 75.. but could I feel even better at 60? One definite benefit: I'd be saving more money each month.
> 
> Can anyone give me any insight or advice on what I should do? Should I wait a while longer before dropping to 60? Drop to 60 now? Stay at 75 forever? So many questions! Thanks for any responses in advance.


If its working at 75mg then I would say stick to it and just wait out the anorgasmia as it should go at some point and I doubt dropping to 60mg will improve things drastically in that area, but maybe wrong.

Anyway, from my experience, if nardil works for you, it works for you, so playing around with the dose shouldn't be a problem. I had to come off it completely for surgery (twice), plus I came off it twice when I tried parnate but in all cases, as soon as I started back on it, it worked its old magic straight away.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> If its working at 75mg then I would say stick to it and just wait out the anorgasmia as it should go at some point and I doubt dropping to 60mg will improve things drastically in that area, but maybe wrong.
> 
> Anyway, from my experience, if nardil works for you, it works for you, so playing around with the dose shouldn't be a problem. I had to come off it completely for surgery (twice), plus I came off it twice when I tried parnate but in all cases, as soon as I started back on it, it worked its old magic straight away.


what is wrong with me :crying::frown2::crying:


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## WillComp

Thanks for the responses, guys! I don't know why I'm having such a hard time with this decision. Maybe I'm just overly curious to see what happens if I drop to 60 for 1-2 weeks. So far, 75mg has been the most consistent. At the same time, whenever I think some of these side effects have subsided, they come back. Today I got the worst head-dropping narcolepsy. Throughout the whole day. My mouth was dry as hell. I usually chew gum to combat this side but forgot to bring some in today. I kept licking my lips just to keep my mouth from closing on me and literally couldn't talk at one point. 
@V1bzz - Sucks that you've only had 3 great days so far. I have no idea why it works for some and not for others. I'm just hoping you find relief and more amazing days, either by waiting it out or trying Parnate. It would be damn interesting to see how you react to Parnate.

I read the other day that Nardil is effective for 60-70% of those who try it. So there's actually a large percentage of people who never benefit. I guess I just got lucky - I happened to fall into the 60-70% category. Now I just have to remember to have sugar-free gum with me at all times.. for me it's more effective than any liquid when it comes to dry mouth. I feel like these past 6 months, having to deal with all these sides for soooo long is beginning to put a drain on me, and now all I wanna do is sleep. 
@SFC01 - good to hear that playing around with the dose shouldn't be a problem. I might just do that. I'll let you all know when or if I start.:yawn


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> @*Tandorini* and @*V1bzz* and @*Anyone* _else :grin2: : I have a few questions - actually 9.
> 
> When you all dropped from 75mg, what was the main reason(s) you reduced your dose? Was it the intolerable side effects or because you didn't feel much reduction in SA?
> 
> For me, I'm thinking of dropping down from 75. I think the main reasons are anorgasmia and the hope that I could feel even better, further reduction in SA, than I do now. I've only been on 75 for 3 1/2 months. Should I wait a bit longer?
> 
> I'm the type of person that likes consistency. It's better to not take risks, i.e. if it's not broke, don't fix it (well, 1 thing is, but it's slowly recovering). If I dropped to 60, would my libido soar to what it was when I was 18?
> 
> Overall, I'm feeling great at 75.. but could I feel even better at 60? One definite benefit: I'd be saving more money each month.
> 
> Can anyone give me any insight or advice on what I should do? Should I wait a while longer before dropping to 60? Drop to 60 now? Stay at 75 forever? So many questions! Thanks for any responses in advance.


I dropped because of the side effects. The fatigue has been the worst for me. I take Nardil because of depression, not SA. I felt maybe a little better at 75 mg compared to 60, but the fatigue wasn't worth it.

It's impossible to say what the effects on your libido will be, as side effects vary a lot from person to person.

One option is that you drop to 60 mg, and stay there for a while before you evaluate your situation (effect vs. side effects) and decide wether to stay at 60, or once again go up yo 75 mg.

The doctor who first gave me Nardil said that after a while you can reduce the dose, and take as little as one tablet every other day. I never did catch what time frame he was talking about. With SSRIs, lamotrigine, all other medication as far as I know, the dose that has effect is the dose you have to stay on until it one day is time to try quitting. But with Nardil appearantly it was different. At least that's what they said. I don't remember everything that happened at the hospital, there were so many people talking and giving information, and I couldn't catch everything. But they said something about "If Nardil works for you, you need to know that you will have to stick with that for a long, long time." And also, he said that about one tablet every other day. He might have meant that I need to use Nardil for several years and then go down to 15 mg every other day, I dunno.

I am feeling SO much better at 60 mg, looking at my total situation. My mood is slightly worse, but my energy is a lot better. I can get stuff done, I can walk without getting lactic acid, I don't have to find a place to nap all the time.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> And also, he said that about one tablet every other day. He might have meant that I need to use Nardil for several years and then go down to 15 mg every other day, I dunno.


Its because nardil is irreversible, ie once you have achieved the therapeutic amount of MAO inhibition then it will stay that way until you come off it - then it will still take a couple of weeks for the MAO enzymes to rebuild or whatever they do, back to normal levels.

The thinking behind the 15mg every other day I guess is that this dose is strong enough to stop any MAO enzymes growing back once you have reached the desired effect.

This may be an old way of thinking and although it still appears on the leaflet you get along side your nardil tabs, not sure anyone either patients or professionals usually try this.

Would be interesting to give it a go though, or at least 75mg every other day and see how that goes. Maybe an option for you @V1bzz ?


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## WillComp

Very interesting, Tandorini! It sounds tempting to drop to 60 but I may wait till I've done a proper 6 months on 75. That will be Jan 4th. 

I'd love to be able to evaluate the difference between 75 and 60. Ive noticed I also have the lactid acid in my legs too, even when walking up the stairs to my apartment unit on the 3rd floor. I tried running this week and could only run for 5 min. Before nardil I could run an hour without stopping. 

Ithink I need to keep pushing through like I did when I went hiking.. first 10 min were brutal, then all the sudden the pain went away. If I went back down to 60 I bet I could hike up to the summit much easier, I'd have more energy and I wouldn't be nodding off all the time. 

By the way, about an hour ago I was sitting at my desk in my office when all the sudden I fell asleep (for the 6000th time), and when I woke up I jerked, didn't know where I was and jerked like 3 times as if shocking me back to life. It made a lot of noise too, I think my hand flew forward and I knocked the monitor. Quickly looked around and thankfully no one was walking around and saw me. Hopefully there's no cameras in here. Then I immediately got up, walked around, stretched and took a caffeine pills. Now I'm wide awake again. It would be awesome if I didn't have to deal with this side effect either. We'll, onward I go. At least I can say this year hasn't been a typical boring year. :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Very interesting, Tandorini! It sounds tempting to drop to 60 but I may wait till I've done a proper 6 months on 75. That will be Jan 4th.
> 
> I'd love to be able to evaluate the difference between 75 and 60. Ive noticed I also have the lactid acid in my legs too, even when walking up the stairs to my apartment unit on the 3rd floor. I tried running this week and could only run for 5 min. Before nardil I could run an hour without stopping.
> 
> Ithink I need to keep pushing through like I did when I went hiking.. first 10 min were brutal, then all the sudden the pain went away. If I went back down to 60 I bet I could hike up to the summit much easier, I'd have more energy and I wouldn't be nodding off all the time.
> 
> By the way, about an hour ago I was sitting at my desk in my office when all the sudden I fell asleep (for the 6000th time), and when I woke up I jerked, didn't know where I was and jerked like 3 times as if shocking me back to life. It made a lot of noise too, I think my hand flew forward and I knocked the monitor. Quickly looked around and thankfully no one was walking around and saw me. Hopefully there's no cameras in here. Then I immediately got up, walked around, stretched and took a caffeine pills. Now I'm wide awake again. It would be awesome if I didn't have to deal with this side effect either. We'll, onward I go. At least I can say this year hasn't been a typical boring year. :grin2:


I was bothered by jerking at 60 mg. When I went up to 75 mg it almost disappeared. Now I am back on 60 mg, and it's hardly even there anymore. Nardil is weird.


----------



## V1bzz

I'm in a really bad place at the moment, don't know what to do. I left a msg to my pdoc saying i need to see her sooner. I'm in tears writing this ****, i never cry. Just so fed up, i feel depressed and everything and i havent felt that for yrs.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'm in a really bad place at the moment, don't know what to do. I left a msg to my pdoc saying i need to see her sooner. I'm in tears writing this ****, i never cry. Just so fed up, i feel depressed and everything and i havent felt that for yrs.


Mate, I`m gutted for you, just hold in there - there is still a way to beat this ****. Give one of your pals a call for some support or if you wanna give me a bell or text or whatever just pm me.

Have been where you are right now.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I'm in a really bad place at the moment, don't know what to do. I left a msg to my pdoc saying i need to see her sooner. I'm in tears writing this ****, i never cry. Just so fed up, i feel depressed and everything and i havent felt that for yrs.


Hey mate, if you wanna give me a PM or text, I'm here for you too. I feel terrible that you feel this way. You can PM me and tell me anything.. sometimes confiding in someone and telling them everything you're going through can work wonders. It's helped me a lot in the past when I felt beat up and defeated or just depressed as hell and crying and feeling like shjt. :group I feel like a group hug is in order.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I'm in a really bad place at the moment, don't know what to do. I left a msg to my pdoc saying i need to see her sooner. I'm in tears writing this ****, i never cry. Just so fed up, i feel depressed and everything and i havent felt that for yrs.


Hope you hear from your pdoc soon. What you are going through will pass, but while you're in this mood it feels like it's gonna be forever. Just remember, it wasn't like this a few weeks ago, which means you are capable of feeling better again sometime soon. Try getting some support whereever you can get it, while you're feeling this way.


----------



## Tandorini

Okay, so this is kinda weird. And fun. I was at work today, working in the medicine room dispensing tablets in weekly pill dispenser together with a colleague. Then she was like "And yeah, there's this new patient coming in this afternoon. Maybe we can fill her dispenser as well. Just gonna have a look at her medicine list. Hey, what the f* is this one? Never heard of it." She reads quietly for a minute. Then she goes "wtf, she can't have CHEESE? Wow, there's loads of stuff she can't have, this is crazy. Hey, she can't have draft beer, that's a bummer, ey?"

And I'm like.. :O

I don't know this colleague very well, so I didn't really wanna tell her a lot about myself. But I was like..yeah, I know that medicine quite well, actually. And what it says there, is really important. I hope the patient's A&O and can follow the restrictions herself.

Her: She was found wandering outside without pants.
Me: :O

I'm actually a little worried. I mean, there's a LOT of precautions that have to be taken. There are a lot of people working at the ward, none of them have ever heard of Nardil, except for the few that I have told about it. 

I don't think people who can't take care of themselves should take Nardil, it's way too much of a responsibility for carers to take, concidering all the food and drug interactions there are. It was mentioned in her papers that maybe they should reconcider the medicine. I sure hope they do. Our regular doc wasn't in today, but I'll have a chat with her on Tuesday when I see her. Plenty of time for people to **** up before that, though.

It sucks that the patient isn't more alert and oriented. I could have made a Nardil friend


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## V1bzz

hey all, sorry to worry everyone. I now have an appointment with the pdoc tomorrow. when I suffered from terrible depressions yrs ago i used to feel like this before I feel into hell. 
My job has been really stressful lately and im worried its nudging me closer and closer to the hole. 

I can't go back to that place, 6 months I was gone last time and it took me 2 yrs to recover!

Think I will ask for parnate tomorrow, that way I get pain relief too.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> hey all, sorry to worry everyone. I now have an appointment with the pdoc tomorrow. when I suffered from terrible depressions yrs ago i used to feel like this before I feel into hell.
> My job has been really stressful lately and im worried its nudging me closer and closer to the hole.
> 
> I can't go back to that place, 6 months I was gone last time and it took me 2 yrs to recover!
> 
> Think I will ask for parnate tomorrow, that way I get pain relief too.


no need to say sorry mate, we are all with you on this, always got our full support.

You may be deserting the nardies crew but us nardilers dont hold grudges against the parny firm - some of us even used to be members.

Not sure if I ever asked but you ever had therapy at all ? might be worth considering asking about tomorrow.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> no need to say sorry mate, we are all with you on this, always got our full support.
> 
> You may be deserting the nardies crew but us nardilers dont hold grudges against the parny firm - some of us even used to be members.
> 
> Not sure if I ever asked but you ever had therapy at all ? might be worth considering asking about tomorrow.


I suppose I could ask just to see what it is all about but I have self imposed brain damage so doubt it will work.

hope i'm not gunna get head ****ed tomorrow, really not in the place to cope with that ****, i have a very short fuse at the moment.

I think maybe a lot of this could be down to road rage, making me angry and mean and rude to people.


----------



## Gillman fan

I would recommend Serzone / Nefazadone or Nortriptyline (if your doctor isn't terrified of TCAs) as a bridge medication. You should get relief that kicks in *fast*.

Of course if our medical system made any sense, you could get ketamine.... in fact you CAN get ketamine from a compounding pharmacy, but this would require that your doctor is not an idiot.

Therapy may be good but it is always slow, you should find something that can offer rapid benefits. Unfortunately the only commonly used & prescribed med (in the US) that may offer some relief rapidly is Mirtazepan / Remeron... but grab your ankles and prepare for a PURE FAT injection.

Parnate can offer relief almost instantly OR take much longer... it depends on how well you respond to the dopamine benefits, which seem to kick in really rapidly. 

In the long run I would say don't give up, a HUGE part of medicine is simply trial and error, unfortunately this advice may not be very helpful now.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> I suppose I could ask just to see what it is all about but I have self imposed brain damage so doubt it will work.
> 
> hope i'm not gunna get head ****ed tomorrow, really not in the place to cope with that ****, i have a very short fuse at the moment.
> 
> I think maybe a lot of this could be down to road rage, making me angry and mean and rude to people.


Sh1t man I'm sorry to hear about the rough few days. You will bounce back though no doubt my friend! There are sooo many medications out there and while many of them may not work for some, you will without a doubt find something that helps exactly as it is meant to. Keep up the faith brother and best of luck! Keep checking in too!


----------



## cigpk

I've been at 45 mg for about 2.5 weeks now. I am definitely a little less sociable and my mood is a little down but I'm also in the middle of midterms so I don't expect myself to be all smiles and sh1t 24/7 right now lol.

It was pretty crazy though - I've read about it being a strict 2 weeks for SOME people to notice a dose change. Literally right when I got to the 2 week mark - bloating disappeared almost overnight, sexual function returned to normal, and I started dreaming again that night. I even did a little lucid dreaming the other night which I haven't done in probably 2 years, it was incredible (I love lucid dreaming ). My sleep is still pretty ****ty but I'm getting at least 6, non continuous hours in a night so I can't complain too much. I still have some muscle fatigue when working out, but it has gotten a little better.

I still don't know what I'm going to do in terms of dosage in the long run but I think 45 mg is pretty good for me right now. Side effects aside, I didn't realize how much dosages > 45 were making my OCD act up. I was becoming hyper focused on my med routine and kept getting worried that splitting up nardil pills was somehow damaging the other pills in the bottle since I was taking half tablets or quarter tablets (weird stuff, I know..). I would be opening and closing the bottles ritualistically and going back in forth - should i increase the dose? decrease the dose? quit the med? and once that started happening, I knew things were a little off. I used to be really bad about these behaviors before I got my OCD under control and I'd like to not go back there. 45 seems to lessen the OCD for now while also controlling social anxiety and depression.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> I've been at 45 mg for about 2.5 weeks now. I am definitely a little less sociable and my mood is a little down but I'm also in the middle of midterms so I don't expect myself to be all smiles and sh1t 24/7 right now lol.
> 
> It was pretty crazy though - I've read about it being a strict 2 weeks for SOME people to notice a dose change. Literally right when I got to the 2 week mark - bloating disappeared almost overnight, sexual function returned to normal, and I started dreaming again that night. I even did a little lucid dreaming the other night which I haven't done in probably 2 years, it was incredible (I love lucid dreaming ). My sleep is still pretty ****ty but I'm getting at least 6, non continuous hours in a night so I can't complain too much. I still have some muscle fatigue when working out, but it has gotten a little better.
> 
> I still don't know what I'm going to do in terms of dosage in the long run but I think 45 mg is pretty good for me right now. Side effects aside, I didn't realize how much dosages > 45 were making my OCD act up. I was becoming hyper focused on my med routine and kept getting worried that splitting up nardil pills was somehow damaging the other pills in the bottle since I was taking half tablets or quarter tablets (weird stuff, I know..). I would be opening and closing the bottles ritualistically and going back in forth - should i increase the dose? decrease the dose? quit the med? and once that started happening, I knew things were a little off. I used to be really bad about these behaviors before I got my OCD under control and I'd like to not go back there. 45 seems to lessen the OCD for now while also controlling social anxiety and depression.


Seems like several of us are following the same pattern now. Going from suffering through the worst side effects, to actually decreasing, getting a feel of where the effect is good enough, yet the sides don't mess us up.

I am so relieved now that I am at 60 mg. I can get stuff done, I don't have to rest and sleep all the time. Today I've been shopping for hours, getting a hair cut, doing some house work, and still, I am not all worn out. At 75 mg I could just do one activity a day, almost.


----------



## SFC01

lets all have our fingers crossed for @V1bzz tonight - hope he gets what he what wants from the pdoc appointment.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> lets all have our fingers crossed for @V1bzz tonight - hope he gets what he what wants from the pdoc appointment.


Thanks mate, it id go very well. I said i wanted to try parnate now and he replied 'ok'
no messing about...that's me officially joining the parnate club next week. I'm still a honorary member of the nardil club though cos I haven't given up on it and want to give it another go if parnate doesnt work.

I will start doing a diary type thing as i did in this thread at the start. Give me positive vibes guys, I really need this to work!


----------



## Gillman fan

V1bzz - if you are feeling really suicidal consider ECT. I think it would help immediately with a broad range of symptoms.

I am generally critical with ECT because it is just postponing the problem. But just in case it takes Parnate a while to "kick in" ECT will make your life more bearable in the short run. 

I wish you luck. The best thing about Parnate is that you won't have to wait months and months in order to determine whether its working or not. Once you get to a therapeutic dose, it should kick in at a maximum of like 6 weeks. But once you add in tapering dose up etc. it could be several months before you get relief.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey guys hope all is well.

So i've just taken 15mg for the last two days and am really ill today from withdrawals. .what is the washout period for the switch?

many on this forum think you can switch straight away, Do you guys who have done both think it would be ok to taper, maybe take 30mg nardil to keep the withdrawal at bay so i can still work and gradually do the switch over 5 days. going to 15mg nardil 2 days before full switch?

Pdoc wants me to do 10mg early morning (06:15 i will take it), then another around 11am for 1 week then go up to 20 early morning and 20 late morning.
@Gillman fan @watertouch @SFC01
and anyone else that has done the switch lol

My head is shocking so bad right now I feel sick, my body feels like it has severe flu and i feel really thirsty. I can also feel the unmedicated me rapidly returning.

@WillComp through all that i feel damn horny though mate


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*Gillman fan* @*watertouch* @*SFC01*
> and anyone else that has done the switch lol


when do you get the parnate mate ? I would be tempted to forget the wash out - I say tempted I mean that I never bothered with one but of course whats good for me etc.

When I was on parnate, I would take 20mg around 9AM and the other 20mg around 1PM but just see what fits when you get going with it.

Guess what I never got on parnate either :grin2: but a lot of people seem to get that afternoon fatigue so maybe delaying it till 1PM stopped me getting that.


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, another thing mate, I never got any withdrawals from quitting nardil or the other way round, maybe because I switched straight away, and (I cant remember) but knowing me, I probably started whacking 30 or 40mg parnate down straight away


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> Hey guys hope all is well.
> 
> So i've just taken 15mg for the last two days and am really ill today from withdrawals. .what is the washout period for the switch?
> 
> many on this forum think you can switch straight away, Do you guys who have done both think it would be ok to taper, maybe take 30mg nardil to keep the withdrawal at bay so i can still work and gradually do the switch over 5 days. going to 15mg nardil 2 days before full switch?
> 
> Pdoc wants me to do 10mg early morning (06:15 i will take it), then another around 11am for 1 week then go up to 20 early morning and 20 late morning.
> @Gillman fan @watertouch @SFC01
> and anyone else that has done the switch lol
> 
> My head is shocking so bad right now I feel sick, my body feels like it has severe flu and i feel really thirsty. I can also feel the unmedicated me rapidly returning.
> 
> @WillComp through all that i feel damn horny though mate


I have made a parnate to nardil switch without a washout - I took 60 mg of parnate that morning and 45 mg nardil that night. I had no problems at all. I'm not sure if making a switch from nardil to parnate would be any different.

I moved up to 60 mg parnate pretty quickly.


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## V1bzz

Im hoping to get the parnate by wednesday. i'm just popping down my new surgery now to try and get the prescription. pdoc said to wait till i received a letter about our meeting, that my doctor should get it at the same time, to then go in and ask for a prescription. I didn't get mine today but hoping the doctor did. I expect the pharmacy will have to order it in so wouldn't get it till the next day.

If I can get it today it would be awesome then i can start it tomorrow (hopefully), I think wednesday latest but i do have a problem, i'm back at work tomorrow and rarely finish before the doc or chemist close.

will see what i can get sorted shortly!

I had the afternoon fatigue for months anyway on nardil so it will be nothing different on parnate, I don't seem to get that while working though as i'm too busy for my body to even consider trying.

I'm worried about insomnia, the one thing nardil did do for me was help me sleep at night.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Im hoping to get the parnate by wednesday. i'm just popping down my new surgery now to try and get the prescription. pdoc said to wait till i received a letter about our meeting, that my doctor should get it at the same time, to then go in and ask for a prescription. I didn't get mine today but hoping the doctor did. I expect the pharmacy will have to order it in so wouldn't get it till the next day.
> 
> If I can get it today it would be awesome then i can start it tomorrow (hopefully), I think wednesday latest but i do have a problem, i'm back at work tomorrow and rarely finish before the doc or chemist close.
> 
> will see what i can get sorted shortly!
> 
> I had the afternoon fatigue for months anyway on nardil so it will be nothing different on parnate, I don't seem to get that while working though as i'm too busy for my body to even consider trying.
> 
> I'm worried about insomnia, the one thing nardil did do for me was help me sleep at night.


Can the docs send it electronically to your pharmacy ? takes a step out of the process if you are busy at work.

20 to 40mg parnate shouldnt be too bad for insomnia, its nothing like our friend billy, but insomnia can be sorted out easy enough with something like trazodone. In fact, trazzy would be great alongside your re-discovered horniness, I would be worried for all those gloucestershire ladies :grin2: (and sheep  )


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## Gillman fan

Trazodone: the magic erection pill that makes you feel great and sleep better!

V I recommend that if your doctor has not done so already, you should procure some sleeping pills over the counter from the pharmacy. Doxylamine succinate is the generic of Unisom Sleep Tabs in the US, or the other anti-histamine sleep aid (Diphenyl... something). Getting enough sleep is the #1 most important thing with new meds. Don't wait until 3 a.m.

IIRC you already are or were taking Agmatine? If you stopped taking it, you might like it better on Parnate. The interactions are way too complicated for me to understand or predict what it might do lol.

V1bzz as far as the switch, Dr. Gillman's opinion on this matter is thus:
"Opinion: if there is good reason to swap rapidly, do it, because there is 1) no theoretical basis to suggest it might be contra-indicated, and 2) existing reports do not constitute evidence to the contrary, and 3) it has clearly been done many times without any problem. "
http://psychotropical.info/images/Publications-pdfs/MAOI_diet_drug_interactions_2016.pdf page 40.


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## V1bzz

Cool thanks guys. 

I have all kinds of weird emotions going around my body today that I don't particularly like, i'm hoping because i took 45 mg today that once i dose all 3 early in the morning I will feel normal again. My head has been banging all day and emotionally I don't like where I am! 
Can't explain it other than I feel like i'm standing on the edge of a cliff. Right on the edge and the ground is starting to crumble beneath me!


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Cool thanks guys.
> 
> I have all kinds of weird emotions going around my body today that I don't particularly like, i'm hoping because i took 45 mg today that once i dose all 3 early in the morning I will feel normal again. My head has been banging all day and emotionally I don't like where I am!
> Can't explain it other than I feel like i'm standing on the edge of a cliff. Right on the edge and the ground is starting to crumble beneath me!


Mate, hold on fella, you can do it - remember its not the real you at the moment, and I`m sure relief is around the corner - stick with it, that parnate will get working soon enough, dont worry about that.

Whack some tunes on and get some of that dopamine flowing and think of the good days to come - the dam coming up for one.


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## SFC01

Gillman fan said:


> Trazodone: the magic erection pill that makes you feel great and sleep better!
> 
> V I recommend that if your doctor has not done so already, you should procure some sleeping pills over the counter from the pharmacy. Doxylamine succinate is the generic of Unisom Sleep Tabs in the US, or the other anti-histamine sleep aid (Diphenyl... something). Getting enough sleep is the #1 most important thing with new meds. Don't wait until 3 a.m.


Diphenhydramine - sold as nytol in the UK, but you get cheaper shop brand stuff now. Not sure you can get Doxylamine succinate in chemists here, although its legal and easy enough to order off the internet from mainstrean companies. Never tried it though.

GF - have you ever tried phenylpiracetam with your impressive stack  ? I quite rate it, has to be cycled but would seem a reasonable replacement to take in between stimulant breaks.

I`ve only tried it on nardil but could be a decent substance to have lying around for people on parnate, or anyone really.


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## Gillman fan

V1 - I am going to make another post but I think I can help with your ridiculous 40 mg Parnate limit!

SUBLINGUAL DOSAGE my friend. I haven't tried this... I know others have. Maybe Mwuanno? I will make a separate post for all our UK parnate users.

SFC I might have a talk with Zeus if he shows up. Will send him a PM. He knows his **** and I do not want to spend... hours and hours ressearching nootropics.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Mate, hold on fella, you can do it - remember its not the real you at the moment, and I`m sure relief is around the corner - stick with it, that parnate will get working soon enough, dont worry about that.
> 
> Whack some tunes on and get some of that dopamine flowing and think of the good days to come - the dam coming up for one.


Didn't mean for that to sound so depressing and suicidal, it defo didn't get written from that place, I feel happy enough lately. I just forgot what it feels like to have all these weird emotions again. Hopefully i will get the parnate tomorrow and get it down me gullet wednesday lol..im guessing the pharmacist will have to order it in.

New doctor was supposed to ring me back today and didn't but i'm not going to allow it to affect me as long as i get what i need. I think the next time I go in I will ask to see another doctor, I don't think this one is right for me. Actually first impression is that she's a fcking ***** >


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## WillComp

@V1bzz - can't wait to read your new Parnate journal. I'm so damn curious to see how it works for you, given that Nardil didn't work for you except for those 3 days. I'm hoping this is the right medication for you. If it works, we'll all have benefitted and gone through this roller coaster journey together and kicked SA's *****.

The holidays have always been a stressful time for me -- Thanksgiving, Christmas, malls, ughhh. I'd like to get the highest possible benefit this year during the holidays. I've said I wanted to drop to 60 after the New Year, however I might start in November. If dropping to 60 reduces side effects, especially hypo, damn narco, and anargo, I'll be super relieved. And it if stays as effective as 75, I'll be ecstatic.

Once again, I collapsed on the living room carpet again yesterday. Didn't get back off the floor till the ringing in my ears subsided 5 minutes later. I got back from vacation over the weekend and had to drive 5 hours alone on a heavily trafficked highway and started swerving out of my lane while nodding off so had to pull over at the closest exit, find a gas station, park and take a power nap for 30 minutes along with a caffeine pill. When my alarm woke me up after 30 minutes, I felt completely awake and energized, so I made my way back on the highway and made it home easily. And yesterday I tried out the anorgo thing and basically had to go at it for way too long and concentrate way too hard. But eventually had just enough time on my hands before I was about to give up and somehow got lucky. I'm actually sick of trying, so it's another break until November.

So that's my life at the moment. I forgot to bring the caffeine pills to work today, so it could get ugly very soon. Just think, @V1bzz - you won't have to deal with this stuff any more once Nardil is out of your system. Good luck with the translation! We're all pulling for you! :clap


----------



## WillComp

@V1bzz - can't wait to read your new Parnate journal. I'm so damn curious to see how it works for you, given that Nardil didn't work for you except for those 3 days. I'm hoping this is the right medication for you. If it works, we'll all have benefitted and gone through this roller coaster journey together and kicked SA's *****.

The holidays have always been a stressful time for me -- Thanksgiving, Christmas, malls, ughhh. I'd like to get the highest possible benefit this year during the holidays. I've said I wanted to drop to 60 after the New Year, however I might start in November. If dropping to 60 reduces side effects, especially hypo, damn narco, and anargo, I'll be super relieved. And it if stays as effective as 75, I'll be ecstatic.

Once again, I collapsed on the living room carpet again yesterday. Didn't get back off the floor till the ringing in my ears subsided 5 minutes later. I got back from vacation over the weekend and had to drive 5 hours alone on a heavily trafficked highway and started swerving out of my lane while nodding off so had to pull over at the closest exit, find a gas station, park and take a power nap for 30 minutes along with a caffeine pill. When my alarm woke me up after 30 minutes, I felt completely awake and energized, so I made my way back on the highway and made it home easily. And yesterday I tried out the anorgo thing and basically had to go at it for way too long and concentrate way too hard. But eventually had just enough time on my hands before I was about to give up and somehow got lucky. I'm actually sick of trying, so it's another break until November.

So that's my life at the moment. I forgot to bring the caffeine pills to work today, so it could get ugly very soon. Just think, @V1bzz - you won't have to deal with this stuff any more once Nardil is out of your system. Good luck with the translation! We're all pulling for you! :clap


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Didn't mean for that to sound so depressing and suicidal, it defo didn't get written from that place, I feel happy enough lately. I just forgot what it feels like to have all these weird emotions again. Hopefully i will get the parnate tomorrow and get it down me gullet wednesday lol..im guessing the pharmacist will have to order it in.
> 
> New doctor was supposed to ring me back today and didn't but i'm not going to allow it to affect me as long as i get what i need. I think the next time I go in I will ask to see another doctor, I don't think this one is right for me. Actually first impression is that she's a fcking ***** >


My mind always get ****ed up going on and going off antidepressants. When I went off bupropion I felt totally beside myself, and by chance I had an appointment with my GP that day, and I told him exactly how it felt. Like there were thoughts in my head that weren't mine, and that I couldn't quite catch what they were, and didn't really dare look too much into it either. Told him I had taken a sleeping tablet around 7 pm the evening before, because I was scared to stay up any longer, I was scared of the thoughts. Ended up in the high dependency ward of the acute psych ward. Was let out to the "normal" ward after 24 hours, luckily, but had to spend a whole week there.

Going on Nardil, and increasing the dose, has also made me get more suicidal thoughts. Even though I am quite well now, going from 60 to 75 mg gave me these thoughts. But as I didn't feel depressed, and didn't really have a death wish, they were just disturbing thoughts, and I told myself they would pass soon enough.


----------



## V1bzz

So the pdoc sent a letter to my new GP saying in his professional opinion bla bla etc etc, to take parnate at such and such a dose.

Find out today my new GP who first meeting was just a horrible and rude b1tch has refused to prescribe me parnate. in my first meeting she said she would only prescribe it if the pdoc advised it. so she is horrible, rude, ignorant and also a lying b1tch...great qualities in our gp's these days.

Thing that has confused me the most is what did I pay £240 for by seeing a pdoc?? I thought he was going to write me a prescription but nooo, secretary told me today I would have to pay £750 a month for private scripts if i want one from him.

So it seems Pdoc are just useless cnuts as well, just do what they do to get paid stupid amounts of money for nothing.

That's me all out of options now. no **** in my area seems to give a **** about anyone.

pdoc is having a laugh if he thinks i am paying him 240 quid for nothing.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> So it seems Pdoc are just useless cnuts as well, just do what they do to get paid stupid amounts of money for nothing.
> 
> That's me all out of options now. no **** in my area seems to give a **** about anyone.
> 
> pdoc is having a laugh if he thinks i am paying him 240 quid for nothing.


That is ****ing ridiculous mate, get the pdoc to to phone her up and tell her - that has ****ing made me mad. I`ll ****ing email/ring the ***** if you let me. My GP did what my pdoc told her too. Maybe get the script from the pdoc anyway, not that you are gonna pay it but at least you could maybe use as a ploy in a bit.

Keep at them both, be nice to start with, stay nice to the pdoc but complain like **** to whoever you have to re the NHS, in the meantime, just get some ****ing selegiline in and take that or at least ask for a TCA like ammy or trimmy to try and get some relief.

If there is anything I can do mate, give me a shout and I`ll see if I can help at all.

Was excited to see when you updated the thread, ****ing furious now - you must be gutted beyond belief but you can still get this parnate sooner rather than later so dont give up.


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## Tandorini

Don't know what happened to me. Yesterday I had a meeting at my GP's office. With my GP, my boss, my psychomotoric therapist and a person from the Norwegian welfare system (where I get my benefits from, now that I am not fully working). It was to get a status on how I'm doing, both health wise but more specifically what are the prospects of going back to work full time.

I did of course not look forward to the meeting. It was mandatory for me, in order to keep my benefits. I hate being in a group like that, having to discuss my health. Especially with my boss present as well. I am a patient at home and in the hospital sometimes, at work I am the "healthy version" of myself. I am Nurse Tandorini, I'm a professional. Anyway. The meeting went well, I suppose. No fun, but they all appreciated the progress I've been making, and are eager to help me further on. I can continue like I do now (combining benefits and some salary) until the first of February. After that they need to find some other solution, but hopefully one that won't really change much for me, it's all administrative. I try not to get stressed out about that. I might be back to working full time by then. Or not, but the solution they find is up to them, it's up to my work and the welfare people to agree on who pays for what.

Anyway. It did go well. I went to a yoga class after, and then to a friend's house. I helped her son with her homework, and helped making dinner. But then, all of a sudden, it was like I crashed. I felt so depressed, with the nervous/anxious feeling inside me. I could barely keep the tears away. My friend's kids were talking to me all the time, and I felt myself loosing my patience with them. My friend talked to me, and I just couldn't give her good answers. I felt like I haven't felt since before I started Nardil. In the end I finally communicated to my friend that maybe we should go for a walk, and she agreed. Once we were outside the house I just broke down. I couldn't stop crying, and I just felt like lying down on the sidewalk and cry. It felt like it did when I was at my worst depression wise. Eventually we had to go back to her house, and I made up a fib to her husband that I was too tired to stay the entire evening as planned. I went home, and went to bed. Got up this morning and went to work. Tired, exhausted. Feeling a little down, but not that bad.

Further towards the afternoon I got more and more tired. Had a meeting at the end of the day, with a bunch of Nepalese people visiting the university, and had to sit enduring a lousy powerpoint and smile enthusiastically every time they wanted my opinion on things.

I finally got home, and I am just exhausted. I started crying again. Slept an hour and a half. Got up, had some food. Now I'm crying again.

Fukc this. This belongs to the past. This isn't me anymore. Maybe I'm just exhausted. But I'm often exhausted. I don't get depressed like this anymore. It worries me. That I can get this way, even on Nardil.


----------



## tcprocks

My take.

I did not consider Nardil because of hepatotoxicity in the long run. Was thinking of something that I could take forever if needed. For a 2-3 year treatment should be no problem with vitamin intake and controls.

Parnate has not worsened my insomnia, on the contrary just improved a bit sleep lenght and quality. BUT, definitely it is harder to get asleep.

Trazodone helps and could be partially responsible for sleep improvement.

Mianserin (better) or Mirtazapine are killers for sleep onset. No need to take the whole pill, half or a third is enough for me (85 kg). Doxepin (silenor) is even stronger (never tried, hard to get here)

You don´t want to take a lot of these antihistaminics as the cravings for food are for real.

I am still adjusting the dose on Parnate @ 40 mg


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Fukc this. This belongs to the past. This isn't me anymore. Maybe I'm just exhausted. But I'm often exhausted. I don't get depressed like this anymore. It worries me. That I can get this way, even on Nardil.


Man I'm sorry to hear you had such a rough evening. I have the same problem with feeling vulnerable when I have a very bad patch. The only thing I can suggest is to try not to worry and predict the future too much. Perhaps this meeting really walloped you, really affected you more than you realised and your brain was just responding in kind. See how you go for a few days before getting too worried?


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## Tandorini

sming said:


> Man I'm sorry to hear you had such a rough evening. I have the same problem with feeling vulnerable when I have a very bad patch. The only thing I can suggest is to try not to worry and predict the future too much. Perhaps this meeting really walloped you, really affected you more than you realised and your brain was just responding in kind. See how you go for a few days before getting too worried?


Common sense tells me this is a reaction to the meeting. The last meeting like this was way worse. I was still not on Nardil, I was severly depressed, and there I was, with a group of people who all meant this and that for the future while myself, I couldn't even stand the thought of there being a future. Only a week or two later I was admitted to the psych unit again, following a failed suicide attempt. I stayed there for five weeks, and during the stay I started Nardil. So I guess the meeting this time around has been stressing me out more than I have realised, and that this is kind of a reaction from being tense for a long time. Also I have been working more, and also been quite active on my spare time. But still, it scares me that I can get THIS low. That I don't just get fatigued and a little down, but actually get so low that I can't keep my tears back, and cry for hours.

I am feeling better than the day before yesterday, though. I went to work yesterday, and already felt a little better, except I was really, really exhausted after. I've had another good night's sleep now, from 10.45-7.30, which really is a lot for me. I can never sleep long on Nardil. So the fact that I did shows that I am more exhausted than I've been for a long time, I suppose.

I do feel depressed, but I don't have the same feeling of hopelessness, or the suicidal thoughts. Those thoughts are the result of long time depression, where I get so desperate to get out of it. So if it only lasts a few days I'll be fine. But still. It bothers me that I can actually get this bad. I'm not scheduled to work until Tuesday now, so I've got plenty of time to rest. Hopefully I can benefit from that, and not just use the time to get more depressed.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> My mind always get ****ed up going on and going off antidepressants. When I went off bupropion I felt totally beside myself, and by chance I had an appointment with my GP that day, and I told him exactly how it felt. Like there were thoughts in my head that weren't mine, and that I couldn't quite catch what they were, and didn't really dare look too much into it either. Told him I had taken a sleeping tablet around 7 pm the evening before, because I was scared to stay up any longer, I was scared of the thoughts. Ended up in the high dependency ward of the acute psych ward. Was let out to the "normal" ward after 24 hours, luckily, but had to spend a whole week there.
> 
> Going on Nardil, and increasing the dose, has also made me get more suicidal thoughts. Even though I am quite well now, going from 60 to 75 mg gave me these thoughts. But as I didn't feel depressed, and didn't really have a death wish, they were just disturbing thoughts, and I told myself they would pass soon enough.





Tandorini said:


> Common sense tells me this is a reaction to the meeting. The last meeting like this was way worse. I was still not on Nardil, I was severly depressed, and there I was, with a group of people who all meant this and that for the future while myself, I couldn't even stand the thought of there being a future. Only a week or two later I was admitted to the psych unit again, following a failed suicide attempt. I stayed there for five weeks, and during the stay I started Nardil. So I guess the meeting this time around has been stressing me out more than I have realised, and that this is kind of a reaction from being tense for a long time. Also I have been working more, and also been quite active on my spare time. But still, it scares me that I can get THIS low. That I don't just get fatigued and a little down, but actually get so low that I can't keep my tears back, and cry for hours.
> 
> I am feeling better than the day before yesterday, though. I went to work yesterday, and already felt a little better, except I was really, really exhausted after. I've had another good night's sleep now, from 10.45-7.30, which really is a lot for me. I can never sleep long on Nardil. So the fact that I did shows that I am more exhausted than I've been for a long time, I suppose.
> 
> I do feel depressed, but I don't have the same feeling of hopelessness, or the suicidal thoughts. Those thoughts are the result of long time depression, where I get so desperate to get out of it. So if it only lasts a few days I'll be fine. But still. It bothers me that I can actually get this bad. I'm not scheduled to work until Tuesday now, so I've got plenty of time to rest. Hopefully I can benefit from that, and not just use the time to get more depressed.


Yes no wonder it bowled you over, it must have brought back a lot of really intense, difficult, horrible thoughts and emotions.

I had the same sleep issue with Nardil but also had bad daytime somnolence. I used to fall asleep in the office at my desk :/ I once awoke to that loud beeping your PC emits when you're pressing down a key too long and everyone staring at me - I'd fallen asleep with my hand on the keyboard -_- Not my proudest professional moment...

I know exactly what you mean about still feeling depressed (that heavy, vile feeling in your chest/stomach) but not having the suicidal cognitions. It's strange how different meds and meds combos tackle individual&different aspects of it, but never "all" of it. Some are good for cognitions, others for outlook, others for mood but not cognitions and so on. I had an *amazing* day during washout before Parnate. I felt connected to the World and to other people. I felt compassion and love, it was incredible. I will probably never know if that was "normal" or some weird washout effect. I think it was what "normals" feel though, judging by how they behave and act. Sigh.

Well, at least you've improved a bit from the crying jag. It's "rational" to be thankful for small mercies I guess :/ Have you done CBT and all that? I've done the lot (that I know of) and found that most of them just fuelled my OCD. Yay my brain.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> Yes no wonder it bowled you over, it must have brought back a lot of really intense, difficult, horrible thoughts and emotions.
> 
> I had the same sleep issue with Nardil but also had bad daytime somnolence. I used to fall asleep in the office at my desk :/ I once awoke to that loud beeping your PC emits when you're pressing down a key too long and everyone staring at me - I'd fallen asleep with my hand on the keyboard -_- Not my proudest professional moment...
> 
> I know exactly what you mean about still feeling depressed (that heavy, vile feeling in your chest/stomach) but not having the suicidal cognitions. It's strange how different meds and meds combos tackle individual&different aspects of it, but never "all" of it. Some are good for cognitions, others for outlook, others for mood but not cognitions and so on. I had an *amazing* day during washout before Parnate. I felt connected to the World and to other people. I felt compassion and love, it was incredible. I will probably never know if that was "normal" or some weird washout effect. I think it was what "normals" feel though, judging by how they behave and act. Sigh.
> 
> Well, at least you've improved a bit from the crying jag. It's "rational" to be thankful for small mercies I guess :/ Have you done CBT and all that? I've done the lot (that I know of) and found that most of them just fuelled my OCD. Yay my brain.


For the past few months I haven't really felt depressed. I still find it hard that I don't have any positive emotions, I don't feel joy or excitement. But at least I don't feel sad and depressed. Now I feel that I can handle life being like this for quite some time, as long as it gets even better after a while.

I am in therapy, I see a psychologist every or every other week. We tried something called ISTDP which is like being exposed to feelings, but he said we had to stop it, as it was too hard on me. So for now we don't work in any specific way, he's still trying to figure out the best way to treat me.

Yeah, the daytime fatigue on Nardil is hellish. I never had naps before starting Nardil, but since April I've been sleeping almost every single day. I am in control of it, though, I don't experience the "narcoleptic" feeling some of you guys seem to get. But I get really tired, very quickly, and I am desperate to go to bed and sleep. I always wake up after one hour, or one and a half at the most.

It sound awesome that day during the washout period. I wish all days would be like that. The thing is, the longer you are depressed, the less you remember what life should be like. So after a while all you can do is try to get away from the depression, but not having any idea on what you're really working towards. Now that I have felt nearly "normal" for some time, these crying spells and depressive feelings I've had for the past couple of days feel a little less bad than what they would have before. Because now I remember vividly the days before, how I "really" am atm.

Thanks for replying to me, even though I don't know you, it helps getting some support from people who understand what I am talking about. Not having to explain what I mean about the depressive feeling. Not having to explain what Nardil is like, and what it's like trying meds after meds, never feeling like a normal person.


----------



## Gillman fan

It sounds like you have had some luck with Nardil, but it isn't working consistently. Have you tried increasing the dose?
Another option is switching to Parnate, which is considered less sedating and more stimulating, although I certainly find it sedating for an hour or two after I take the pill I consider it moderately energizing.

I would consider augmenting it with another antidepressant but I have no idea whether your doctors in Norway will allow this, or if they are terrified of MAOIs.

You can augment MAOIs with nearly anything except SSRIs and SNRIs. If you haven't already, you should read Dr. Gillman's summary of diet and drug interactions here.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Don't know what happened to me. Yesterday I had a meeting at my GP's office. With my GP, my boss, my psychomotoric therapist and a person from the Norwegian welfare system (where I get my benefits from, now that I am not fully working). It was to get a status on how I'm doing, both health wise but more specifically what are the prospects of going back to work full time.
> 
> I did of course not look forward to the meeting. It was mandatory for me, in order to keep my benefits. I hate being in a group like that, having to discuss my health. Especially with my boss present as well. I am a patient at home and in the hospital sometimes, at work I am the "healthy version" of myself. I am Nurse Tandorini, I'm a professional. Anyway. The meeting went well, I suppose. No fun, but they all appreciated the progress I've been making, and are eager to help me further on. I can continue like I do now (combining benefits and some salary) until the first of February. After that they need to find some other solution, but hopefully one that won't really change much for me, it's all administrative. I try not to get stressed out about that. I might be back to working full time by then. Or not, but the solution they find is up to them, it's up to my work and the welfare people to agree on who pays for what.
> 
> Anyway. It did go well. I went to a yoga class after, and then to a friend's house. I helped her son with her homework, and helped making dinner. But then, all of a sudden, it was like I crashed. I felt so depressed, with the nervous/anxious feeling inside me. I could barely keep the tears away. My friend's kids were talking to me all the time, and I felt myself loosing my patience with them. My friend talked to me, and I just couldn't give her good answers. I felt like I haven't felt since before I started Nardil. In the end I finally communicated to my friend that maybe we should go for a walk, and she agreed. Once we were outside the house I just broke down. I couldn't stop crying, and I just felt like lying down on the sidewalk and cry. It felt like it did when I was at my worst depression wise. Eventually we had to go back to her house, and I made up a fib to her husband that I was too tired to stay the entire evening as planned. I went home, and went to bed. Got up this morning and went to work. Tired, exhausted. Feeling a little down, but not that bad.
> 
> Further towards the afternoon I got more and more tired. Had a meeting at the end of the day, with a bunch of Nepalese people visiting the university, and had to sit enduring a lousy powerpoint and smile enthusiastically every time they wanted my opinion on things.
> 
> I finally got home, and I am just exhausted. I started crying again. Slept an hour and a half. Got up, had some food. Now I'm crying again.
> 
> Fukc this. This belongs to the past. This isn't me anymore. Maybe I'm just exhausted. But I'm often exhausted. I don't get depressed like this anymore. It worries me. That I can get this way, even on Nardil.


Hang in there miss poo examiner. could be and hopefully is a quick mood adjustment from the 75 to 60.
Try not to dwell on it too much and worry that you are heading back to the you before nardil.

How are you feeling at the moment. I think Nardil creates depression feelings when lowering the dose. it's weird because i have changed my dosages so many times but I felt really depressed for a few days and I haven't really had depression for many yrs.

Keep the faith and hopefully nardil adjusts it's self to whatever it's doing quickly. Hopefully after this down period you will feel even better than before when it settles


----------



## V1bzz

So I'm going to try and tell you quickly my day today.

Around lunch time it sort of hit me that my doctor wont be working this weekend so it will be 2 more days of not knowing wtf is going on.
I ended up ringing the surgery and speaking to reception staff for about 30mins. I ended up losing it and demanding to speak to the doctor or manager...of course none were available!....however the doctor would prescribe me Nardil which made me even more angry.
I said to the receptionist to write down what i'm just about to tell her and give it to the doctor, I then went off on one saying about parnate being prescribed all over the uk and it being part of NICE or whatever. I then went on to say that I am refusing to take Nardil as a mental health professional has said i need to stop nardil and switch over to parnate. I then mentioned that i want to know why she (the dr) can prescribe me nardil but not parnate which is in the same class of drugs.
I then said, you tell that doctor I am putting all of this on her now, I am not taking nardil and I am going to get really sick and she is responsible for what happens after that. I also said to tell her that if I am not prescribed TODAY my new medication that I will be taking legal action against her.

I went on in this manner for a while, felt bad for the receptionist after because I got really angry.

the call ends with her saying she will pass along the info and get the doctor to ring me. I wait an hour and nothing, I'm doing all of this while working so call, do a few deliveries then call again.

Ring the reception again and apologize for how I was before but this is not a joke and something will be sorted out for me today.

Do some more work and no phone call so ring up the surgery manager number, get through and speak to a lady. Once I had told her my name she said oh i need to keep this line clear as i have an important call coming through. please hold while i transfer you to the other line. im listening to that terrible waiting music for 5 mins and she comes back on and says sorry about this, im still trying to transfer you over, puts me on hold again. I wait another 5 mins and then the line goes dead. she hung up on me lol. What a coward manager, it's because she knew i was going to open up a can of woop *** hahaha.

Time is getting on, it's 5pm and i'm thinking sh1t, they will be finishing. Ring the manager again and the phone line dials out both times going to answer phone after a few mins of ringing.
Get on the phone to reception again and get through after about 5 mins of waiting. speak to the receptionist again and ask what is going on and that i want my prescription!
She says the doctor has tried to call me twice, i did have two missed calls while i was out of the van.

Finally I get a call and see it says private so know its the doctor, she is coming out with all these different excuses and i'm giving her 1 word replies "BULLSH1T"
were going back and forth for a while and i tell her that she isn't going to beat me on this, I know far more than she does about this kind of thing and i'm not some clueless knob head. I throw tons of sh1t at her about how she was rude to me first meeting, that she clearly doesn't understand the scale of my mental illness and I will not be messed about i was getting lots of ummm, how to describe in words....like ah umm oh stuttering where she didn't know wtf to say back. I say something to her and i hear her sigh or huff, I say don't you huff at me. This is serious stuff me are talking about, im not taking nardil now because i have about a days supply left and whatever happens next is on you.

So the conversation calms down a little as I back off from verbally beating her up so badly. I think she has the message.

Funny enough she starts to say how all afternoon she has been booking me in to see a free psychiatrist because it's not fair i should pay, says she will listen to what this psychiatrist wants. I say i really don't understand you, whats the damn difference.

she goes quiet some more, i go quiet then say so what now, i'm not letting this go, my mental health is not a game for you gp's to play with.

She also mentioned that it could take 2-3 weeks to see the new pdoc, i replied 3 weeks...so what happens until then, I will be very sick in a few days!

so on this call after i smashed her up, chewed and spat her out, she was now a completely different personality on the phone, her tone of voice changed and she said i can see you are not easing off this so will you try to find some middle ground with me. I don't really like to do this but I will prescribe you diazepam 5mg until you see the new pdoc, will you ease off about the parnate if I do this for you.

I said I don't know, will it affect me straight away when i need it until i get the parnate, she says yes. I tell her i have avoided benzos until now but will do it this one time and meet her in the middle lol.

so this is where i am at, it seems what the receptionist passed to the doctor scared her enough to pull her finger out of her *** hole and do something. Understand that i am not some knob she can fool with lies because i am more informed about mental illness than she will ever be.

so this is what i'm going to do, i'm going to drop to x2 nardil while taking 3x5mg a day of valium.

well i think diazepam is valium? has anyone else here taken it? is it any good etc etc
@WillComp  @Tandorini  @SFC01  @Gillman fan @watertouch


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> So I'm going to try and tell you quickly my day today.
> 
> Around lunch time it sort of hit me that my doctor wont be working this weekend so it will be 2 more days of not knowing wtf is going on.
> I ended up ringing the surgery and speaking to reception staff for about 30mins. I ended up losing it and demanding to speak to the doctor or manager...of course none were available!....however the doctor would prescribe me Nardil which made me even more angry.
> I said to the receptionist to write down what i'm just about to tell her and give it to the doctor, I then went off on one saying about parnate being prescribed all over the uk and it being part of NICE or whatever. I then went on to say that I am refusing to take Nardil as a mental health professional has said i need to stop nardil and switch over to parnate. I then mentioned that i want to know why she (the dr) can prescribe me nardil but not parnate which is in the same class of drugs.
> I then said, you tell that doctor I am putting all of this on her now, I am not taking nardil and I am going to get really sick and she is responsible for what happens after that. I also said to tell her that if I am not prescribed TODAY my new medication that I will be taking legal action against her.
> 
> I went on in this manner for a while, felt bad for the receptionist after because I got really angry.
> 
> the call ends with her saying she will pass along the info and get the doctor to ring me. I wait an hour and nothing, I'm doing all of this while working so call, do a few deliveries then call again.
> 
> Ring the reception again and apologize for how I was before but this is not a joke and something will be sorted out for me today.
> 
> Do some more work and no phone call so ring up the surgery manager number, get through and speak to a lady. Once I had told her my name she said oh i need to keep this line clear as i have an important call coming through. please hold while i transfer you to the other line. im listening to that terrible waiting music for 5 mins and she comes back on and says sorry about this, im still trying to transfer you over, puts me on hold again. I wait another 5 mins and then the line goes dead. she hung up on me lol. What a coward manager, it's because she knew i was going to open up a can of woop *** hahaha.
> 
> Time is getting on, it's 5pm and i'm thinking sh1t, they will be finishing. Ring the manager again and the phone line dials out both times going to answer phone after a few mins of ringing.
> Get on the phone to reception again and get through after about 5 mins of waiting. speak to the receptionist again and ask what is going on and that i want my prescription!
> She says the doctor has tried to call me twice, i did have two missed calls while i was out of the van.
> 
> Finally I get a call and see it says private so know its the doctor, she is coming out with all these different excuses and i'm giving her 1 word replies "BULLSH1T"
> were going back and forth for a while and i tell her that she isn't going to beat me on this, I know far more than she does about this kind of thing and i'm not some clueless knob head. I throw tons of sh1t at her about how she was rude to me first meeting, that she clearly doesn't understand the scale of my mental illness and I will not be messed about i was getting lots of ummm, how to describe in words....like ah umm oh stuttering where she didn't know wtf to say back. I say something to her and i hear her sigh or huff, I say don't you huff at me. This is serious stuff me are talking about, im not taking nardil now because i have about a days supply left and whatever happens next is on you.
> 
> So the conversation calms down a little as I back off from verbally beating her up so badly. I think she has the message.
> 
> Funny enough she starts to say how all afternoon she has been booking me in to see a free psychiatrist because it's not fair i should pay, says she will listen to what this psychiatrist wants. I say i really don't understand you, whats the damn difference.
> 
> she goes quiet some more, i go quiet then say so what now, i'm not letting this go, my mental health is not a game for you gp's to play with.
> 
> She also mentioned that it could take 2-3 weeks to see the new pdoc, i replied 3 weeks...so what happens until then, I will be very sick in a few days!
> 
> so on this call after i smashed her up, chewed and spat her out, she was now a completely different personality on the phone, her tone of voice changed and she said i can see you are not easing off this so will you try to find some middle ground with me. I don't really like to do this but I will prescribe you diazepam 5mg until you see the new pdoc, will you ease off about the parnate if I do this for you.
> 
> I said I don't know, will it affect me straight away when i need it until i get the parnate, she says yes. I tell her i have avoided benzos until now but will do it this one time and meet her in the middle lol.
> 
> so this is where i am at, it seems what the receptionist passed to the doctor scared her enough to pull her finger out of her *** hole and do something. Understand that i am not some knob she can fool with lies because i am more informed about mental illness than she will ever be.
> 
> so this is what i'm going to do, i'm going to drop to x2 nardil while taking 3x5mg a day of valium.
> 
> well i think diazepam is valium? has anyone else here taken it? is it any good etc etc
> 
> @*WillComp*
> @*Tandorini*
> @*SFC01*
> @*Gillman fan*
> @*watertouch*


Yeah its valium, 5mg aint a strong dose mate - but make sure it doesnt intefere with your driving job, pretty sure they made certain meds illegal to drive with.

Dont let her get away with this, you have already seen a pdoc after she referred you to him and this new pdoc may not prescribe it to you. What excuses did she come up with for not giving you parnate ?

Go back monday to reception and tell her you dont want diazepam as it will affect your job, is dangerous for addiction and wont do anything for depression, in fact, it can cause depression even in the short term. Keep at her.

Why the **** will she follow this pdoc and not the first one ?? Ask her why. You may get an NHS pdoc who more than likely wont give you parnate. Over the weekend, find out what you need to do to report her for negligence or something.

I`m just a bit concerned you have been fobbed off on this and may not get the parnate - when is your first pdoc back from hols?


----------



## Tandorini

Gillman fan said:


> It sounds like you have had some luck with Nardil, but it isn't working consistently. Have you tried increasing the dose?
> Another option is switching to Parnate, which is considered less sedating and more stimulating, although I certainly find it sedating for an hour or two after I take the pill I consider it moderately energizing.
> 
> I would consider augmenting it with another antidepressant but I have no idea whether your doctors in Norway will allow this, or if they are terrified of MAOIs.
> 
> You can augment MAOIs with nearly anything except SSRIs and SNRIs. If you haven't already, you should read Dr. Gillman's summary of diet and drug interactions here.


Hi, and thanks for your input. I think Nardil is working quite well, but too much stress will still get me down, like healthy people experience too.

Nardil is rarely prescribed in Norway, and yeah, I guess you could say they are quite terrified. No one really knows much about the interactions and side effects, all they know is what they read. Unfortunately there is an article in the main medical journal in the country they all seem to trust and refer too. The authors make a big deal about the food and drug interactions, and don't mention any side effects except for "the side effects are mostly the same as for SSRIs".

I've learnt so much about Nardil since I started on it, but the pdoc I have now has never had a patient use it before.

I've had nearly every food that's on the list of food interactions, without a reaction. I don't even dare telling the docs about it, in case they feel it's too risky to let me stay on the drug.

I've never heard Parnate even mentioned in Norway. The article I mentioned starts off with saying that MAOIs are rarely used, but docs may encounter them in rare cases, and then especially Nardil. I have had a look at a webpage which lists the non-marketed drugs you maey get a prescription for, and Parnate is among them. I don't know if it's worth the hazzle, though. Nardil is working quite well after all.

I've read everything on Gillmans site. Reading facts about Nardil gets me a little angry. Angry that my docs say completely opposite things, and don't seem to have a clue.

I'm seeing my pdoc the week after next. But as I said, I dunno if I am ready to make a switch. I always get really fukced up in my mind when switching meds. Not sure it's worth it.

Does Parnate cause less fatigue, you said? What other differences are there? Does it cause weight gain?

My struggles with Nardil is mostly fatigue, muscle weakness, waking up early. Also some constipation and (myoclonic) jerks.

And yeah, I have tried higher doses. Have tried 75 mg twice, but I get too fatigued. Have two hour long naps a day, the feeling of lactic acid in my body, struggling to sleep. And minimal effect on my mood.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Hang in there miss poo examiner. could be and hopefully is a quick mood adjustment from the 75 to 60.
> Try not to dwell on it too much and worry that you are heading back to the you before nardil.
> 
> How are you feeling at the moment. I think Nardil creates depression feelings when lowering the dose. it's weird because i have changed my dosages so many times but I felt really depressed for a few days and I haven't really had depression for many yrs.
> 
> Keep the faith and hopefully nardil adjusts it's self to whatever it's doing quickly. Hopefully after this down period you will feel even better than before when it settles


It's been quite some time since I went from 75 to 60 mg, so I don't think that did it. I think it rather is I was way too worked up about this meeting than I even realised, and then I just "collapsed" afterward, when it was all over. I am feeling a bit better now. On Wednesday I couldn't stop crying, and Thursday I was so exhausted, and also teared up sometimes. I am still exhausted, but I don't feel as sad anymore. I am not working until Tuesday, so I will have to try relaxing and not do a lot of stuff all the time.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> so this is where i am at, it seems what the receptionist passed to the doctor scared her enough to pull her finger out of her *** hole and do something. Understand that i am not some knob she can fool with lies because i am more informed about mental illness than she will ever be.
> 
> so this is what i'm going to do, i'm going to drop to x2 nardil while taking 3x5mg a day of valium.
> 
> well i think diazepam is valium? has anyone else here taken it? is it any good etc etc
> 
> @*WillComp*
> @*Tandorini*
> @*SFC01*
> @*Gillman fan*
> @*watertouch*


Wow. You sure are struggling trying to get people to listen. I would have gotten desperate myself. I don't understand all the stuff about the NHS and who prescribes what, and who pays for what. It sucks that you have to spend a lot of money to see people who can't even help you.

But yeah, the other one who replied to you has a point. Why would the doctor listen to this new pdoc, when she didn't listen to the other?

I tried Valium before, it didn't do much for me. I guess we react in different ways. Besides, I was going for an MRI and have quite severe claustrophobia, so in the end they had to give me 4 mg of Xanax. Don't remember a thing :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> But yeah, the other one who replied to you has a point.


The other one!! I do have a name Miss Whatsherface :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> The other one!! I do have a name Miss Whatsherface :grin2:


Haha, was too lazy to scroll :blush


----------



## Gillman fan

Tandorini I really don't want to give you the impression that Parnate is some miracle drug that will raise your energy level. Everyone reacts differently. There have not been enough academic studies to confirm this sort of thing, but I have read reports from doctors that commonly prescribe MAOIs and plenty of patients. Generally Nardil does seem to cause weight gain and sedation more frequently, it also seems to have more severe fatigue (the "afternoon dip") which can be so severe that people fall asleep quite suddenly. This is not how Nardil usually works, but it is a good example because I have never read about this severe reaction when it comes to Parnate. Some patients report that Parnate is less effective for anxiety, but the research on this topic has always found that the two drugs perform very similarly in trials. 

MAOI users have such a hard time because when we ask for something it makes doctors afraid of their lack of knowledge, and they can react by being dicks. I could give you specific recommendations for co-medications but in my experience doctors are often reluctant. If I were you I would talk to your care team and explain the situation, you have an excellent and authoritative source on drug interactions, if you come up with recommendations that are proven safe can you discuss it at the next meeting. IMO patients have the right to expect much more from their doctors, but what I have seen again and again is that you, the patient, have to treat the fragile ego of doctors in order to get them to treat your much more serious mental health problems. 

Plenty of good augments, Nortriptyline is a bit sedating, probably not what you want. Nefazodone should act as both an anti-depressant and anxiolytic, but make sure you stay in the lower dosage range - at high doses it can act like an SSRI. I think you could achieve the highest anti-depressant firepower with a TCA like Amitryptiline, but it might be sedating and may also cause anti-cholinergic side effects like dry mouth. A stimulant might help both your mood and energy level. Ritalin is completely safe, most people prefer amphetamines because they offer more energy, with these you should add them slowly at low doses and measure blood pressure. At very high doses amphetamines can be dangerous, but the MAOI / amphetamine combo has an excellent safety record when they are carefully administered and monitored by a doctor. If you haven't already, give Agmatine a try, there is a thread here about it, it is non-prescription and quite safe.

V1bzz - sorry mate I don't have much advice for you, I am glad I have never had to deal with anything like that. Psychiatrists do the scripts here in the US. If your GP was more knowledgeable you could have switched to a much more effective bridging medication that would also help you while you titrate up on Parnate. This is Dr. Gillman's standard procedure.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> For the past few months I haven't really felt depressed. I still find it hard that I don't have any positive emotions, I don't feel joy or excitement. But at least I don't feel sad and depressed. Now I feel that I can handle life being like this for quite some time, as long as it gets even better after a while.
> 
> I am in therapy, I see a psychologist every or every other week. We tried something called ISTDP which is like being exposed to feelings, but he said we had to stop it, as it was too hard on me. So for now we don't work in any specific way, he's still trying to figure out the best way to treat me.
> 
> Yeah, the daytime fatigue on Nardil is hellish. I never had naps before starting Nardil, but since April I've been sleeping almost every single day. I am in control of it, though, I don't experience the "narcoleptic" feeling some of you guys seem to get. But I get really tired, very quickly, and I am desperate to go to bed and sleep. I always wake up after one hour, or one and a half at the most.
> 
> It sound awesome that day during the washout period. I wish all days would be like that. The thing is, the longer you are depressed, the less you remember what life should be like. So after a while all you can do is try to get away from the depression, but not having any idea on what you're really working towards. Now that I have felt nearly "normal" for some time, these crying spells and depressive feelings I've had for the past couple of days feel a little less bad than what they would have before. Because now I remember vividly the days before, how I "really" am atm.
> 
> Thanks for replying to me, even though I don't know you, it helps getting some support from people who understand what I am talking about. Not having to explain what I mean about the depressive feeling. Not having to explain what Nardil is like, and what it's like trying meds after meds, never feeling like a normal person.


I've never heard of ISTDP. The only talk therapy that helped me was ERP - Exposure Response Therapy. It was good for my "pure" OCD (I fear I'll commit suicide).

That's very true about not knowing any more what you're working towards. I think partly that's what made it so miraculous-feeling when it did happen for that day. I sadly suspect that our "nearly normal" is far, far away from what a Normal (i.e. psychologically healthy person) feels on a day to day basis. I think they'd be horrified by experiencing one of our "good" days.

It's impossible for those who've not lived with depression for years to understand what it's like. It's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is. The hours I've spent trying to concoct prose or analogies or metaphors for conveying life with chronic depression are all for naught. I suspect it's like trying to describe being high to someone who's not high: it just doesn't convey the experience realistically.


----------



## Tandorini

Gillman fan said:


> Tandorini I really don't want to give you the impression that Parnate is some miracle drug that will raise your energy level. Everyone reacts differently. There have not been enough academic studies to confirm this sort of thing, but I have read reports from doctors that commonly prescribe MAOIs and plenty of patients. Generally Nardil does seem to cause weight gain and sedation more frequently, it also seems to have more severe fatigue (the "afternoon dip") which can be so severe that people fall asleep quite suddenly. This is not how Nardil usually works, but it is a good example because I have never read about this severe reaction when it comes to Parnate. Some patients report that Parnate is less effective for anxiety, but the research on this topic has always found that the two drugs perform very similarly in trials.
> 
> MAOI users have such a hard time because when we ask for something it makes doctors afraid of their lack of knowledge, and they can react by being dicks. I could give you specific recommendations for co-medications but in my experience doctors are often reluctant. If I were you I would talk to your care team and explain the situation, you have an excellent and authoritative source on drug interactions, if you come up with recommendations that are proven safe can you discuss it at the next meeting. IMO patients have the right to expect much more from their doctors, but what I have seen again and again is that you, the patient, have to treat the fragile ego of doctors in order to get them to treat your much more serious mental health problems.
> 
> Plenty of good augments, Nortriptyline is a bit sedating, probably not what you want. Nefazodone should act as both an anti-depressant and anxiolytic, but make sure you stay in the lower dosage range - at high doses it can act like an SSRI. I think you could achieve the highest anti-depressant firepower with a TCA like Amitryptiline, but it might be sedating and may also cause anti-cholinergic side effects like dry mouth. A stimulant might help both your mood and energy level. Ritalin is completely safe, most people prefer amphetamines because they offer more energy, with these you should add them slowly at low doses and measure blood pressure. At very high doses amphetamines can be dangerous, but the MAOI / amphetamine combo has an excellent safety record when they are carefully administered and monitored by a doctor. If you haven't already, give Agmatine a try, there is a thread here about it, it is non-prescription and quite safe.
> 
> V1bzz - sorry mate I don't have much advice for you, I am glad I have never had to deal with anything like that. Psychiatrists do the scripts here in the US. If your GP was more knowledgeable you could have switched to a much more effective bridging medication that would also help you while you titrate up on Parnate. This is Dr. Gillman's standard procedure.


Thanks again for your reply. I have read here on this forum that Parnate is better for depression. I never had anxiety issues, except for the ones that come when I am really depressed. Nardil took those away after just two weeks and 30 mg I think. The depression took longer.

What is an "IMO patient"?

I have encountered plenty of pdoc over the past few years, some of them with big egos, but most of them I have been able to talk rationally too. The thing is that no one really believed that my fatigue could be linked to Nardil. That's how little they knew. It makes me mad, that I had to go 3 months with terrible fatigue before they would listen, and finally accept that this was a side effect of Nardil. I remember being totally exhausted just laying in my hospital bed, and the pdoc there was rude to me, telling me that this was I would never get better. I told her this is not like me at all, that when I am depressed I get so restless and anxious, I have to do stuff all the time. Before I was admitted to the hospital I was at the gym every day, I did house work, I went shopping, I did everything I could to try to switch focus. And then, after starting Nardil, and being fatigued, all those besserwissers would tell me that "this is all part of your depression. Depression makes people fatigued, they lack energy." Yeah, that still makes me mad. Even now, my psychologist from time to time will say stuff like "yeah, so you are still thinking that Nardil is the reason you are so exhausted?".

Well, back to topic. I use Nardil 60 mg and Seroquel 200 mg (normal release, not extended) now. No f-ing way my pdoc would prescribe ritalin or other controlled substanses, I don't think I even wanna mention that to him. I guess I should stay away from stuff that are anti-cholinergic, as I have had trouble with urinary retention as a side effect before. Nefazadone was pulled from the Norwegian market in 2003, after several reports of liver damage. You can't get a prescription for that anymore (not even through the system where you can get Nardil and other non-marketed medications).

I am not sure if Agmatine is legal in Norway. I tried googling it, and I came to a customs page explaining a case where it was seized. I put amitryptiline with Nardil on the drug interaction calculator that the doctors use, and it came up as a no-go. I believe what you are saying, but then again, I don't think that I would get my doc to prescribe anything that goes against Norwegian guide lines, especially when they have never done anything like that before. So I think I am stuck with Nardil and Seroquel unless there's some other stuff that don't come up as red or yellow when put in here: https://www.felleskatalogen.no/medisin/interaksjon

The thing is I have been through so many drugs with no effect as it is, struggling with side effects and getting my hopes up only to have them shot down. So part of me is reluctant to fukc with something that works as well as it does. But of course, I am not happy about things the way they are either. So I don't know, really, what to do, what to ask for.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> I've never heard of ISTDP. The only talk therapy that helped me was ERP - Exposure Response Therapy. It was good for my "pure" OCD (I fear I'll commit suicide).
> 
> That's very true about not knowing any more what you're working towards. I think partly that's what made it so miraculous-feeling when it did happen for that day. I sadly suspect that our "nearly normal" is far, far away from what a Normal (i.e. psychologically healthy person) feels on a day to day basis. I think they'd be horrified by experiencing one of our "good" days.
> 
> It's impossible for those who've not lived with depression for years to understand what it's like. It's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is. The hours I've spent trying to concoct prose or analogies or metaphors for conveying life with chronic depression are all for naught. I suspect it's like trying to describe being high to someone who's not high: it just doesn't convey the experience realistically.


I hadn't either, before my psychologist said that he thought that was right for me. http://www.istdp.com/

Yeah, I agree. A good day for me is probably not much like a normal day for healthy people. I remember so vividly, it was in May last year. I was very much depressed, not yet having found a medication that worked. I went up on the roof top terrace of my building, sitting down with a book. All of a sudden (after being there for quite some time) I felt this awesome feeling. It was like...everything lifted. It was like having an intense headache for weeks or months, and then all of a sudden feeling it go away. I felt good, really good. I felt the sun on my body (which had been on my body for a long time already), and enjoyed it. I heard cars honking and I felt a jolt of interest, walking over to the edge of the terrace to look down. I saw a traffic jam and just stood there looking at it, feeling very light in my entire body. I went back to my chair and started thinking. Throughout my depression I've always been saying that no matter how great life can get after the depression, it's not worth what I am going through. So hopes for the future are non-existent. I tried asking myself this, as I sat there feeling great. Was this worth it? What I've been going through for the past couple of years? It was like I didn't understand the question. Was what worth it? What was the point of asking that? This is now, this is it, life is good. Whatever has happened the past couple of years - it's irrelevant. It really did feel irrelevant. It was all put behind me, just like that. I thought of the therapist always telling me to try living in the moment, not worrying about the future, or regret the past. I understood her now. But I also understood that for healthy people, that's not a problem. I didn't have to think about the past or the future. I felt great, here and now.

Well. The feeling lasted about 10 minutes.

Still. That day. It was May 9th, 2016. It is very important to me. Because it gave me insight in how things may be. How it should be. It gave me the hope that I had lost. I got something to work towards. I never felt that way since that. The memory of it isn't as strong as it used to be. I really could use another few minutes feeling like that. Just to get my motivation up.

Because that was awesome.

It also gave me some insight. There is no way in freaking hell that therapists or others who have not been depressed can really understand how it feels. It's like a different world. And being depressed, you and your therapist are two different worlds. There's no connection between the two.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah its valium, 5mg aint a strong dose mate - but make sure it doesnt intefere with your driving job, pretty sure they made certain meds illegal to drive with.
> 
> Dont let her get away with this, you have already seen a pdoc after she referred you to him and this new pdoc may not prescribe it to you. What excuses did she come up with for not giving you parnate ?
> 
> Go back monday to reception and tell her you dont want diazepam as it will affect your job, is dangerous for addiction and wont do anything for depression, in fact, it can cause depression even in the short term. Keep at her.
> 
> Why the **** will she follow this pdoc and not the first one ?? Ask her why. You may get an NHS pdoc who more than likely wont give you parnate. Over the weekend, find out what you need to do to report her for negligence or something.
> 
> I`m just a bit concerned you have been fobbed off on this and may not get the parnate - when is your first pdoc back from hols?


Not sure what is going on with the pdoc, have not heard from them again.
Yeah i'm going into the surgery onday and telling her i didnt get anything from 5mg. I took 10mg today and fet fkuked up for a while. this is not bullsh1t now but i fell asleep 3 or 4 times today while driving. I woke up shouting fcuk as i was mounting the curb or turning a corner.

It also didnt help with ow im feeling, i could feel me getting more and more stressed today like i was going to explode.

I could hardly walk after i took 10mg and nearly feel over a couple of times, i'm also having real bad mr narc again now. That had completely gone for me the last 2 weeks or less. now its back worse than ever.

she wants me to take it until i see the new pdoc in 2-3weeks. Mate they wont fob me off because i aint taking anything but an maoi again, i want parnate and thats that.

I'm thinking that now i can at least enjoy amsterdam more, i've already ordered myself 4 pills ad 2 grams of speed lol.

I think i should be ok getting off this valium ****, im getting nothing positive from it.

what do you think i should ask for? some armoddy or something? or is there another benzo that will lift my mood, help with anxiety and depression i can take until i get my parnate?

Valium isn't for me i'm afraid!!


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 ave you ever tried alprazolam?

i think that helps depression and anxiety


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* ave you ever tried alprazolam?
> 
> i think that helps depression and anxiety


Alprazolam is the same as Xanax/Xanor. Way more potent than Valium. They hardly ever prescribe it in Norway, as it's highly addictive.


----------



## Tandorini

Tandorini said:


> What is an "IMO patient"?


Okay. Just realised. Blonde moment.

(I thought what the f is an IMO patient? Should I try to become one? Do they really get better treatment? :haha)


----------



## adam1212

Hello

I've just a question question.

I'm depressed and anxious and after many trials of SSRI/SSRN, we decided to go to Nardil.

I'm began last friday : we build up to 45 mg in one week.

I took now 45 mg since 3 days and on day 2 and 3 (today) i have a moderate fatigue : would this go away with time? if yes a week ? 

i have no sleep problems.No insomnia.No hypotensions.no others side effect

I'm pretty unpatient to go to 60 mg since it seems to be the standard dose for depression

Thanks very much for answers
Adam


----------



## cigpk

adam1212 said:


> Hello
> 
> I've just a question question.
> 
> I'm depressed and anxious and after many trials of SSRI/SSRN, we decided to go to Nardil.
> 
> I'm began last friday : we build up to 45 mg in one week.
> 
> I took now 45 mg since 3 days and on day 2 and 3 (today) i have a moderate fatigue : would this go away with time? if yes a week ?
> 
> i have no sleep problems.No insomnia.No hypotensions.no others side effect
> 
> I'm pretty unpatient to go to 60 mg since it seems to be the standard dose for depression
> 
> Thanks very much for answers
> Adam


I started at 45 mg and it took approx two weeks for me to notice a difference and things have only gotten better the longer I've been on the drug - I would try and be patient BUT if your fatigue is not too bad, you could go ahead an bump up to 60 mg. Most people move up to 60 pretty quickly. I personally couldn't because side effects hit me pretty hard just at 52.5 mg so I have stuck at 45 mg now and find my symptoms manageable with little to no side effects.

Another option is to maybe spread your doses out in the day? morning/noon/evening or something. I personally prefer to take all 45 mg at once upon waking but I do notice I have less afternoon fatigue if I spread it out (but also more insomnia as well).

Also do you drink coffee? It helps with fatigue for me - or even just an afternoon cup of tea.
@V1bzz hang in there mate. I hope you get some relief from the benzo/nardil combo until the parnate train takes off. I'm excited for you to try parnate though, I really loved that medication and I think it is a wonderful alternative to nardil.


----------



## adam1212

@cigpk thanks for reply

are you treated for depression anxiety ? how lon are you treated

today the fatigue is better.i will perhaps (probably) wait a week to bump to 60 mg
i have perhaps to learn to be patient

i spread the dose 3 time a day.

Coffee did nothing

ohter question : *must nardil be in the fridge *? i have read a post here but none has said to me (doc or pharmacy) so i don't


----------



## SFC01

adam1212 said:


> ohter question : *must nardil be in the fridge *? i have read a post here but none has said to me (doc or pharmacy) so i don't


depends what type but it will say on the bottle anyway, just look on there - if you cant find anything then should be fine to leave out of the fridge.

May be google the brand you have as that should tell you either way.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* ave you ever tried alprazolam?
> 
> i think that helps depression and anxiety


I havent tried that one mate, its shorter acting and more potent mg for mg than DZP. It will help anxiety but imo benzo's do nothing for depression, apart from making it worse. Obviously this only short term but just be careful with benzo's, they are generally safe but you can get yourself in a world of **** with them, and I dont just mean addiction etc.

Also, with your job, you need to watch it as if you deviate from your prescribed dose and you fall asleep and injure someone or worse !! the old bill will prosecute.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/drug-drive-legislation-am-i-fit-to-drive

I got some diazepam from way back and took some friday night, about 15mg and didnt feel a thing !!

I still think they are fobbing you off mate, you have approval from one pdoc and thats all you should need. You may say you wont leave the new pdocs office without a parnate prescription (and make sure dont) but it doesnt mean you are goig to get prescribed !!

In the meantime, options to get you through imo -

Forget benzos on a daily basis, safe until you really need to some relief or sleep when you have finished at work.

- Do what Gillman Fan says and try and get a bridging med such as a TCA - Norty, Ammy or Trimippy even mirtazapine if you cant get the TCAs.

- Ask for some armoddy but from your doc ? I dont think so !! get it online. Get some phenylpiracteam with it as well as they go well together or on alternate days. Phenylpiracetam is far better than the piracetam and noopept. Would say get some phenibut but if you have benzos probably no need although phenibut does increase dopamine as well so is more mood uplifting than benzos

- Get some selegeline online which is easy enough - its an MAOI mainly dopamine at a certain dose but go higher and it inihibits both A and B (so serotonin and NA as well). Buy some phenylethylamine (PEA) with it as well, which is cheap as chips on ebay and take some small doses of PEA with selegeline. Go easy with the doses of PEA say 30-50mg only, maybe less to start with.

PEA is the bodys amphetamine but is very short lived without an MAOI. I have used with nardil @ around 100mg or so, 3 times a day and it lasts an hour or more, very much like speed.

Just some options !! I would go with armoddy, phenylypiracetam and phenibut personally - and I will be come payday


----------



## adam1212

@SFC01

my nardil is nardil from pfizer.nothing tell me to fridge so i don't

why did tou take nardil ?to treat depression and anxiety ? how long are you on nardil and how long it take to have effect on mood and anxiety

thanks


----------



## Tandorini

adam1212 said:


> @*cigpk* thanks for reply
> 
> are you treated for depression anxiety ? how lon are you treated
> 
> today the fatigue is better.i will perhaps (probably) wait a week to bump to 60 mg
> i have perhaps to learn to be patient
> 
> i spread the dose 3 time a day.
> 
> Coffee did nothing
> 
> ohter question : *must nardil be in the fridge *? i have read a post here but none has said to me (doc or pharmacy) so i don't


The Archimedes brand Nardil needs to be refrigerated, the others don't, as far as I'm concerned. Read the bottle itself or the EMC (the leaflet inside), it will say what temperatures to store the bottle in.

I still struggle with fatigue, even though I've been taking Nardil more than 8 months. It is dose related though. At 75 mg I am much more fatigued. At 90 mg, all I do is sleep. At 60 mg it is bearable. I think it has improved a little as well. I no longer sleep every single afternoon, which I did before.

Some people get no side effects, some only mild. Some get them all, like myself and a couple of the guys here. Searching forums for information on Nardil you are most likely to read a lot about side effects, as people tend to reach out through this forum when having problems. I just have to keep reminding myself that ANYTHING is better than being depressed, like I was.


----------



## Tandorini

adam1212 said:


> @*SFC01*
> 
> my nardil is nardil from pfizer.nothing tell me to fridge so i don't
> 
> why did tou take nardil ?to treat depression and anxiety ? how long are you on nardil and how long it take to have effect on mood and anxiety
> 
> thanks


The one from pfizer says:

Storage:
Store between 15°- 30°C (59°- 86°F).


----------



## SFC01

adam1212 said:


> @*SFC01*
> 
> my nardil is nardil from pfizer.nothing tell me to fridge so i don't
> 
> why did tou take nardil ?to treat depression and anxiety ? how long are you on nardil and how long it take to have effect on mood and anxiety
> 
> thanks


Took nardil for depression nd GAD, been on it close to 4 years @ 75mg, and it started working for me @ 45mg after two weeks or so, and then got better every day pretty much. I have no depression at all know, I cant even try to be depressed and anxiety is at the level that any normal healthy individual should expect in life - the kind of anxiety that is good I guess - I can handle that kind of anxiety easily.


----------



## adam1212

for my story i have an anxious depression in 2008 for 10 months long .And stop paxil in 2014. my anxiety roof the sky so paxil didn't for anymore.To made the long story short, i've been depressed and anxious since march 2015.i m so hopefull of nardil since there is number of success story
@Tandorini : i 've read a bit of your story and saw you slowly build up : why not to keep the dose @60 ?
i agree depression is the worst thand fatigue (if not severe).I would like to read full of post but my depression give me great difficult to concentrate on long post or too much posts.so i ask.sorry i don't read on the bottle for storage.
@SFC01 why did you go up to 75 if 45 lift your mood ?


----------



## SFC01

adam1212 said:


> @*SFC01* why did you go up to 75 if 45 lift your mood ?


because I got it like that !!

Well, at 45-60 it was working well and cleared up most of the depression and anxiety but there were still some days that it came back, not much, but enough to make me wanna go up to 75mg - and at 75 things became 100% consistent.


----------



## Tandorini

adam1212 said:


> @*Tandorini* : i 've read a bit of your story and saw you slowly build up : why not to keep the dose @60 ?
> i agree depression is the worst thand fatigue (if not severe).I would like to read full of post but my depression give me great difficult to concentrate on long post or too much posts.so i ask.sorry i don't read on the bottle for storage.


60 mg has made life a lot easier, I don't feel really depressed anymore. I don't, however, feel any joy or any pleasant feelings. I'm in neutral mode, kinda. So I wanted to see if 75 mg or 90 mg could make me even better. It did lift my mood a bit, but the side effects were too strong. So 60 mg is kind of a compromise, where I feel okay, and the side effects are somewhat bearable.


----------



## adam1212

Could you concentrate on tv book or so in your depression.it is very difficult for me


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## adam1212

And have you endogenous (chronical) depression before


----------



## V1bzz

I went into the surgery and they got the doctor to ring me, i told them the crack with the valium, said i need something help help with my anxiety/depression not sleep.....so she goes and prescribes me Zopiclone. In the chemist i speak to the pharmacist and she tell me its a tablet for insomnia ffs. these docros really just dont flucking get that this typoe of **** aint going to help me!!!

I have asked for to give me a call again, i need a damn upper not a fyckig downer, how thick are these so called damn doctors.

anyone here take it?


----------



## V1bzz

b1tch cant do anything, time to start looking at illegal substances


----------



## adam1212

My fatigue go away i will built up to 60mg end week


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I went into the surgery and they got the doctor to ring me, i told them the crack with the valium, said i need something help help with my anxiety/depression not sleep.....so she goes and prescribes me Zopiclone. In the chemist i speak to the pharmacist and she tell me its a tablet for insomnia ffs. these docros really just dont flucking get that this typoe of **** aint going to help me!!!
> 
> I have asked for to give me a call again, i need a damn upper not a fyckig downer, how thick are these so called damn doctors.
> 
> anyone here take it?


Like I said mate, do them for ****ing negligence or something - zopiclone is *only* a sleeping pill, its not fit for anything else. Dont take it in the day with your job mate - big no no.

Try the stuff I mentioned earlier (above), and then yeah, illegal ****, shame you cant get RC's anymore.


----------



## V1bzz

mate i akready dropped off 4 times. I've just snorted a line of nardil. damn that **** was harsh!!!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> mate i akready dropped off 4 times. I've just snorted a line of nardil. damn that **** was harsh!!!


Really? harsh but good ??

If you got enough nardil left, why dont you try 60/75mg every other day ?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> mate i akready dropped off 4 times. I've just snorted a line of nardil. damn that **** was harsh!!!


remember this thread with Shah re pulsing -

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/a-parnate-to-nardil-thread-2013289/


----------



## Tandorini

Zopiclone doesn't even work with the Nardil insomnia! I mean, I have no trouble falling asleep, it's the waking up at early hours that bugs me. By that time most of the zopiclone has already left the system. Your doctor might be the most useless c* of them all. Congrats, at least you won something! :clap


----------



## adam1212

In your experience on the forum, can 45mg lift the anxious depression in many people.i eat a lot and feel a bit sedated but no fatigue anymore.thanks


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> For the past few months I haven't really felt depressed. I still find it hard that I don't have any positive emotions, I don't feel joy or excitement. But at least I don't feel sad and depressed. Now I feel that I can handle life being like this for quite some time, as long as it gets even better after a while.
> 
> I am in therapy, I see a psychologist every or every other week. We tried something called ISTDP which is like being exposed to feelings, but he said we had to stop it, as it was too hard on me. So for now we don't work in any specific way, he's still trying to figure out the best way to treat me.
> 
> Yeah, the daytime fatigue on Nardil is hellish. I never had naps before starting Nardil, but since April I've been sleeping almost every single day. I am in control of it, though, I don't experience the "narcoleptic" feeling some of you guys seem to get. But I get really tired, very quickly, and I am desperate to go to bed and sleep. I always wake up after one hour, or one and a half at the most.
> 
> It sound awesome that day during the washout period. I wish all days would be like that. The thing is, the longer you are depressed, the less you remember what life should be like. So after a while all you can do is try to get away from the depression, but not having any idea on what you're really working towards. Now that I have felt nearly "normal" for some time, these crying spells and depressive feelings I've had for the past couple of days feel a little less bad than what they would have before. Because now I remember vividly the days before, how I "really" am atm.
> 
> Thanks for replying to me, even though I don't know you, it helps getting some support from people who understand what I am talking about. Not having to explain what I mean about the depressive feeling. Not having to explain what Nardil is like, and what it's like trying meds after meds, never feeling like a normal person.


Anhedonia has been my bane for quite some time, hence my switch to Parnate. You're right - it is good not to feel blue, miserable and depressed but at the same time after a while feeling nothing takes its toll too. You wonder what the point is when you don't care about literally anything for a long period of time.

So far, unfortunately I'm equally anhedonic on Parnate. It's only 1 week but still, after a good start I was hoping for some relief. Good job I have some stimulants (I'm being careful) left over but I'm really worried about what happens when they run out. My PDoc only barely prescribed me Parnate once I'd come off of EVERYTHING I was taking. He's already said "no" to any kind of stimulant augmentation. Ugh.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Thanks for replying to me, even though I don't know you, it helps getting some support from people who understand what I am talking about. Not having to explain what I mean about the depressive feeling. Not having to explain what Nardil is like, and what it's like trying meds after meds, never feeling like a normal person.


You're welcome. It's equally helpful for me to have people in the same boat I can communicate with. Living in the World of Normals is ****ing hard.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> You're welcome. It's equally helpful for me to have people in the same boat I can communicate with. Living in the World of Normals is ****ing hard.


You got that right. And all the same, the doctors want you to hang out with all of these normal poeple. 

Let me know how you're doing on Parnate, okay? I am seeing the pdoc on Monday. Don't know if I might mention it to him then, the idea of trying Parnate.

One week is not much. Give it a few more weeks, and hopefully it will help you.


----------



## V1bzz

anyone here tried Emsam, supposed to be an amazing anti depressant?

any good for anxieties?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> anyone here tried Emsam, supposed to be an amazing anti depressant?
> 
> any good for anxieties?


Hi Mate, Emsam is one of the options I mentioned to you - selegeline - its a parkinsons drug to raise dopamine but it will work for serotonin et al if you go above a certain dose.

Dont know if its considered an amazing anti depressant, and I have no idea how strong its comapred to nardil or parnate but yeah, worth a go in the meantime mate I would say. Did you look at that link I posted on Kurdisk's selegeline thread about success with emsam and small doses of phenylethylamine?


----------



## V1bzz

How about marplan? sounds like a decent drug for anxiety/depression.

umm cant remember mate. this valium makes me a but of a mong. docs on holiday now but will get an upper sorted, my pdoc appointment by her request inst till the end of flucking november!!


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, marplan log here - dont know how common it is here in the UK tho.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/marplan-log-day-one-2096617/

Are you going to ring the first pdoc again?


----------



## WillComp

Who would've thought in November I'd still be dealing with sides? 

I've been on 75 since July 4th. Just when you think all the side effects are passing, they come with a vengeance, like this morning I passed out again and collapsed in my living room. I fell asleep throughout the morning at work. I'm getting these awful brain zaps. I tried for 4 hours and nada. 

Last night I forgot to take my 3 Nardil tablets, and today I felt a noticeable increase in anxiety, paranoia and depression. I've heard people say that you won't be able to notice a difference if you miss a dose. All I know is that wasn't the case with me. Today was the first day since April that I got a taste of the pre-Nardil life and was shocked how hellish it was. I forgot how severe my SA was. I definitely don't want to go back to that place. 

So I'm sticking with 75mg for another few weeks until I'm completely confident in my decision to drop to 60. If I don't feel as much reduction in SA and my side effects don't go away, I'll bump it back up to 75. 

75mg definitely works for me, it could be better overall, but these side effects (especially the 3 dooshbags: Mr. Narco, Mr. Anorgo and Mr. Sideways) will eventually drive me insane.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, marplan log here - dont know how common it is here in the UK tho.
> 
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/marplan-log-day-one-2096617/
> 
> Are you going to ring the first pdoc again?


No mate, i don't think they are interested or i would have heard from them by now. just another useess nuy.
wonder if he still thinks he's getting piad from me 

I aint taking this valium **** any more, it' totally useless for me, just makes me get really bad itching, doesnt help my anxiety or anything at all really, just makes me damn tired and irrititible

my eczema has come up so bad because of it, i cant stop itching!!!


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> You got that right. And all the same, the doctors want you to hang out with all of these normal poeple.
> 
> Let me know how you're doing on Parnate, okay? I am seeing the pdoc on Monday. Don't know if I might mention it to him then, the idea of trying Parnate.
> 
> One week is not much. Give it a few more weeks, and hopefully it will help you.


Do you think your doc would require you washout? If not then a switch would be a much more attractive option IMO. Washouts are hell squared. What makes you want to try Parnate - the comparable typical reduction in somnolence? All I can say is that at 40mg I get walloped by Parnate - can barely stay awake or stand up. I'm going to start drinking a lot more water and taking buffered salt tablets to raise my BP. Hopefully that will help with the feeling weak and faint.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> Do you think your doc would require you washout? If not then a switch would be a much more attractive option IMO. Washouts are hell squared. What makes you want to try Parnate - the comparable typical reduction in somnolence? All I can say is that at 40mg I get walloped by Parnate - can barely stay awake or stand up. I'm going to start drinking a lot more water and taking buffered salt tablets to raise my BP. Hopefully that will help with the feeling weak and faint.


I'm thinking Parnate after what I've read here on this forum, that it's supposed to best for depression. The fact that Nardil helps me a lot, but not fully, makes me wonder if maybe Parnate would get me better. Also, I hope to get less of the fatigue side effect, which is my main problem at the moment.

I used to get drops in blood pressure from Nardil, for the first couple of months. I measured it to be 50/37 a couple of times, and also a few times it just wouldn't measure. I fell down a few times, but mostly I had time to sit down first.


----------



## Tandorini

Ordered some proteinbars and stuff, and received a free sample of this:

https://www.tights.no/butikk/the-butcher-battlefield-red-500g/

Would that be dangerous to take with an MAOI? I see it contains 1000 mg of tyrosine. And 240 mg of caffeine.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Ordered some proteinbars and stuff, and received a free sample of this:
> 
> https://www.tights.no/butikk/the-butcher-battlefield-red-500g/
> 
> Would that be dangerous to take with an MAOI? I see it contains 1000 mg of tyrosine. And 240 mg of caffeine.[/QUOTE
> 
> I think parnate would be a really good option for you. surprised really your pdoc didnt whack you on that first.
> 
> gunna be so p1ssed if you talk to him about it and walk out with an rx >


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Tandorini said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ordered some proteinbars and stuff, and received a free sample of this:
> 
> https://www.tights.no/butikk/the-butcher-battlefield-red-500g/
> 
> Would that be dangerous to take with an MAOI? I see it contains 1000 mg of tyrosine. And 240 mg of caffeine.[/QUOTE
> 
> I think parnate would be a really good option for you. surprised really your pdoc didnt whack you on that first.
> 
> gunna be so p1ssed if you talk to him about it and walk out with an rx >
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, yeah, I bet you would be. I know for sure that he would not make that decision by himself. If I ask for Parnate the best I can hope for is that he tells me he'll talk to the docs who first put me on Nardil. The pdoc I have now has never prescribed or followed up anyone on Nardil, and definitely no other MAOI.
> 
> I need to find out more about Parnate if I am gonna make a convincing case. (And, to convince myself as well.) Got a good link that pretty much explains it all?  The reasons to go to Parnate would be less fatigue, more antidepressant effect. The thing is, I don't score nearly anything on the depression scales now, because they measure the depression, not so much the residual symptoms of anhedonia.
> 
> Are the food and drug restrictions the exact same as with Nardil? Are there any differences at all, on the precautions I would need to take?
Click to expand...


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> V1bzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, yeah, I bet you would be. I know for sure that he would not make that decision by himself. If I ask for Parnate the best I can hope for is that he tells me he'll talk to the docs who first put me on Nardil. The pdoc I have now has never prescribed or followed up anyone on Nardil, and definitely no other MAOI.
> 
> I need to find out more about Parnate if I am gonna make a convincing case. (And, to convince myself as well.) Got a good link that pretty much explains it all?  The reasons to go to Parnate would be less fatigue, more antidepressant effect. The thing is, I don't score nearly anything on the depression scales now, because they measure the depression, not so much the residual symptoms of anhedonia.
> 
> Are the food and drug restrictions the exact same as with Nardil? Are there any differences at all, on the precautions I would need to take?
> 
> 
> 
> Just my 2d. I'm fatigued on Parnate big time but not to the extent I was on Nardil. Instead of actually falling asleep at work, my eyes droop but I manage to stay awake. Secondly, the Goldberg Depression Test that I use monthly to track my mood has at least three questions that ostensibly pertain to anhedonia:
> 
> 
> I feel empty - more dead than alive.
> 
> 
> I have lost interest in things that used to mean a lot to me.
> 
> 
> All joy and pleasure seem to have disappeared from my life.
> 
> Do you still score "no depression" on that one?
Click to expand...


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> Tandorini said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just my 2d. I'm fatigued on Parnate big time but not to the extent I was on Nardil. Instead of actually falling asleep at work, my eyes droop but I manage to stay awake. Secondly, the Goldberg Depression Test that I use monthly to track my mood has at least three questions that ostensibly pertain to anhedonia:
> 
> I feel empty - more dead than alive.
> 
> 
> I have lost interest in things that used to mean a lot to me.
> 
> 
> All joy and pleasure seem to have disappeared from my life.
> 
> Do you still score "no depression" on that one?
> 
> 
> 
> I get 20 points on the Goldberg one. Tried scoring it the way I felt last winter, and scored 63 points or something. So there sure has been great improvement. I've been tested with BDI (Beck's depression inventory), it's mostly what they use around here. That, and MADRS.
Click to expand...


----------



## adam1212

I m on 50 on golberg scale.i ve been on 45 mg since on 26 oct.i ve had a bit improvement.i doesn't take neuroleptique since a week and do reduce remeron fron 15 to 7.i m now experience somnolence so i will not raise nardil.


----------



## SFC01

Stick with the nardil guys, I got zero on that scale, so much different to what it would have been 4/5 years ago.


----------



## adam1212

Thanks your lucky to have zero side effect on this dose.i will stick to 45mg to see if improvement on my mood wi? increase as well on my anxiety.but i have a lot less anxiety.i m only a week and half on 45mg


----------



## Shai Hulud

If you have access, try taking a beta blocker with your dose of Nardil. Sounds counter intuitively, but really balancing bp out.

Re Itching: Quite likely histamine. Nardil inhibits DAO, the histamine degrading enzyme, which is mainly in blood and the upper intestine.
Btw. many other medications inhibit DAO, too. Antihistamines are more of a temporary relief, but if you don't have other options right now,
I'd take it.


----------



## V1bzz

Umm maybe I do have depression now, I am 100% convinced it has been caused by the complete incompetence of the medical services in my area....

_"You have reached level 56 on the Goldberg scale.

You are having suicidal thoughts. This is a serious warning sign, and you must seek help quickly.

You have the symptoms of severe depression. The condition seems to cause serious problems in your everyday life, and you should consult your doctor immediately.

Depression is a disorder and it can be treated very effectively. Recognising that you are suffering from depression is the first positive step. If you are depressed, you should arrange to see your doctor to talk about the illness right away. You may also want to raise the issue with your friends and family. You should look for support from these people you until you get well. Anyone can suffer from depression, and the symptoms can vary from person to person. Treatments, including medication and psychotherapy, have a very high success rate.

Please note that this test result is not a certain assessment of your mental health. You should always consult a doctor if you feel depressed or if you feel that worries and anxiety have taken over and affected the activities of your daily life. "_

Like I haven't been trying to get help since may or anything!

Well im sure you can all see the difference in me from my posts, i used to always post my smilies and stupid comments. These days I cant be flucked to write anything at all.

Let me tell you the latest development in my medical care.

so the new doc wants me to get off nardil, slow withdraw, taking diazepam until i get to see the pdoc in 1...2 weeks max, maybe even sooner.
Appointment comes through for the 28th Nov....I ring doc and the b1tch is on holiday, im sure well deserved, refusing me my parnate from what a mental health care professional had said i needed to be on must have been the thing that made her think, damn im a good doc, time for a nice holiday in the sun somewhere.

Ring up surgery say this diazepam sh1t does feck all for how im feeling, it takes the edge off when i feel like im just about to explode. they say duty doc will call...duty doc calls and tells me to start building up my nardil again and he wont prescribe diazepam. T told him he really didn't have a clue and hung up.

so thats where im at, taking x1 nardil a day with 3 diazepam left over. I go to amsterdam Next friday to the monday and i'm going to get flucked up, im going to take everything and anything i can get my hands on, speed, xtc, acid, truffles, coke.

A couple of weeks ago i had no interest in taking any kind of illegal drug in the dam or even really drinking any alcohol....i wouldn't have too if the doc hadn't refused my pdocs advice about parnate.

So yeah, i'm in limbo again going around in circles.

Some guy was driving up my @rse the other day and i literally stopped in the middle of a busy road, got out and was going to smash my head through his drivers side window and rip his throat out, the only thing that stopped me was the shear fear on his face as i approached and that calmed me down quickly. I told him he was a cnut and better back the fluck off then jumped back in my van and drove off.

probably 5-10 minutes later i was having one of my hyper moments and dance driving and being all crazy in the van. laughing at myself for a few mins then going flat again lol.

I had not had a single depressive emotion since 2012 before may this year, i was just suffering from all of the stuff in my forum signature.

It's good to see the doctors here have got me on the mend


----------



## SFC01

you are right though @V1bzz mate, definite change in your personality these last few weeks.

Is going to A&E an option for you? say how suicidal you are feeling (without trying anything of course) and you may get seen quicker and get more help?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> you are right though @V1bzz mate, definite change in your personality these last few weeks.
> 
> Is going to A&E an option for you? say how suicidal you are feeling (without trying anything of course) and you may get seen quicker and get more help?


Already did it mate, went into A&E, told them they were my lat hope. Got to speak to the head doctor at the hospital, it was her that said to get out of the NHS and go private with a pdoc and to also find a new doctor.

That's why I did all of that crap lately trying to get a good set up. as usual its been another big let down. a pdoc who does that job to make money and a doctor that does whatever the fluck she wants ignoring all professional advice.

Don't you worry, I will be ringing up the surgery every day monday-thursday this week cos im off to dam early fri morning (0650 flight) pretty much the same as I did last week. I will continue to ring and pop in and annoy the fluck out of them until they do the right thing.


----------



## Tandorini

I'm sorry to see you struggling this much, @V1bzz. I think that if people went to A&E or their GP with these symptoms in Norway, they would be admitted at a psych unit for observation. Not much fun, but at least there are doctors there, and they are good at what they do. I would never have been prescribed Nardil as an outpatient - after all, my pdoc had no experience with it.

I'm headed for my new pdoc in a couple of hours. Feeling kinda nervous. I am going to suggest Parnate for him, but I won't be insistent on it, as I really don't know whether it would be a good idea or not. And if it's all my idea, and it turns out getting me worse, I blame myself really hard. So it's better to have them make the deciscion, based upon my suggestion.

I doubt that the doc knows anything about Parnate. MAOIs are very rare in Norway, and when prescribed, it's usually Nardil. I don't know very much about it either. I guess what I can do is give him some facts together with my opinion, and then let him discuss it with the psych ward that put me on Nardil in the first place.

I really have no idea what they will say. I mean - they know how sick I was, and how much better I am now. They might just tell my pdoc never to let me off Nardil, as that's something that's finally working. Or, they might understand that I want to get rid of that last part of anhedonia. But then my psychologist will ask me about it next time, I suppose. Because he doesn't have a lot of faith in medication as a cure, only as a temporarily relief. He might wonder about my motivation for therapy.

Well, as I said, I think they best thing I can do is suggest it, and make sure that the pdoc discusses it with his coworkers, and then I'll stick to whatever they say.

It sure would be nice to be on a medication not having to be refrigerated. I hate staying with people overnight and having to put the Nardil in their fridge.


----------



## Tandorini

Yup. Went exactly like I thought it would. He'd never heard of Parnate, but seemed interested enough. He has a lot on his plate though, so he wouldn't be able to look into it right away. He scheduled me for an appointment in four weeks, but promised to call if he found out something a lot earlier than that. He needs to talk to the people at the psych ward I was on.

So now all I can do is wait, I guess.


----------



## V1bzz

Random question for nardil users, do you guys eat sweets?
I know I have a lot of sweet things, i love pepsi and coke (liquid kind), eat chocolate (snickers my fave).

I just happened across a post on dr bob from a bloke who's been on nardil that says to avoid sweets as it seems to negate nardil ad to take a good vit B complex.

I used to take a good vit b complex when i started nardil but sure i read somewhere that it negates nardil too.

It will be damn hard but i think it may be worth a shot at going back to 45mg next monday taking first thing on an empty stomach with a decent amount of water and doing a vit B complex around lunch every day.

What say you?

_*
""I've been on Nardil for 30+ yrs. 2003 it's formula was changed and the success lessened. I tried everything else to no avail and finally have returned to Nardil. I feel the problem is I'm absorbing in the stomach. It's design was for the small intestine.

Today I'm doing much better after trying different methods to move the absorption. 
If your going to use Nardil this is my opinion:

1. Take Nardil on an empty stomach with 12 oz. H2O
2. Ask your Pdoc to mandate you receive your pills in the 60 pill sealed bottle. It has a desiccant in it to keep moisture from attacking the chemical that moves absorption .Greenstone is the supplier.
3. Do not eat sweets. I do not understand the chemistry but sweets totally negate Nardil in my body.
4. Find a good B complex and take daily.""*_


----------



## V1bzz

Pretty sure i've tried the above way anyway, empty stomach was always my thing for first 3 months and b complex. the only difference would be the sweets. I think its prob just another desperate attempt by me because i'm stuck in limbo again but this time with only 15mg of nardil sustaining me (it's not doing a good job!)


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

I ate some sweets this afternoon and didn't notice anything change. Might be minor but given the long term nature of MAO inhibition I doubt these things make a difference. I'm still early on in day 9 so I don't know from experience and haven't read anything either way.


----------



## V1bzz

prob just some old cnut being a plonker lol.

well i have modafinil arriving tomorrow, will try and get some more valium or something stronger and push really hard for parnate tomorrow at the docs.

wish me luck


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> prob just some old cnut being a plonker lol.
> 
> well i have modafinil arriving tomorrow, will try and get some more valium or something stronger and push really hard for parnate tomorrow at the docs.
> 
> wish me luck


The race is on, @V1bzz. Who'll be first to get a prescription?

(I seriously hope it's you, tho. After all, Nardil is working okay for me. I just wanna switch to Parnate to see if I can get rid of the anhedonia and fatigue.)


----------



## adam1212

My pdoc agree to raise nardil @65mg after been two week @45mg.i feel not yet fatigue since i lower neuroleptic and tapper off remeron to 0.but i m more anxious since


----------



## V1bzz

quick *update*...........Some positive movement has been made......

i couldnt stay for my docs appointment cos my appt was at 0930 and she called someone in at 0940 so i prob wouldn't have got to see her till 0950, b1tch was already adding stress values to my day by making me have to rush ad get stressed trying to get them in the time frame.

oh last night, cos i'm sick of her ignorance, Last night i wrote out a list of every medication i have been prescribed.
a big ole list and if they helped or not. nardil being the only one in a list of about 15 that actually did help a little.

I then wrote another list of what else i could try, including parnate or marplan, also the TCA's you mentioned and that i have never tried them
also some benzo's that could help better than vally.

well she called me but i picked up as she must have been hanging up so that was that
i carried on my day, dropped 2 more valiums cos i was feeling mega stressed out about what i was gunna do!

finally had a spare 30 mins to wait for a delivery so rang up surgery and they got a duty doc to call me back,
anyhoo....
im getting summin out the back of the van and hear my mob vibrating, stop what im doing and walk super speed and manage to get the call.

Well it wasnt b1tch face but another doctor who actually seemed very pleasant to deal with. (im going to ask to change to her.)
she actually seemed to give a **** where as my doctor rang once then took a half day and went home. just after having that well deserved week off too. Her dedication to helping people just oozes out of her.

so i talk to this doc, she sounds kinda sexy on the phone too lol
so she gets up the notes i left for what i have taken and what could be possible options to try and help and see if they help until i get to see the nhs pdoc on the 28th.

Expecting another battle she replied "looking through your list i think quetiapine (TCA) would be a good option to try for now until you see the pdoc"
so i say ok then, she then says "i want to give you more diazepam too to help you when you need to take the edge off and to help get you through the next few weeks"

I kinda get a bit lost at this point and my mind goes blank as to suggest a more effective benzo instead of valium, because i think I am not used to not having to fight for help.

basically she seemed to care, she was interested and concerned about me not getting really ill again. 
It was like I was talking to a doctor that could empathize with me about my sh1tty situation im currently in.
I think maybe or she must have experienced depression and or anxiety herself at some point.

This might sound unappreciative but my b1tch doc may have it in her head that i'm not going on an MAOI again but she is saddly mistaken.
I told her i will take these substitutes until i get parnate from her pdoc...if he doesn't give it to me I will go back on nardil, i have a months supply just waiting in the fridge.

As I said though, I will ask to see that doc who rang me from now on, I think i will progress in a more positive way with her. I know b1tch doc will do all that she can to stop the nhs pdoc letting me try parnate.

So after fighting all year I now have options.... I have these to choose from and mix and match and self dose with. I never listen to a GP's dosing advice any more, Only I know how I am feeling, not a book or some piece some smart *** has written probably having never experienced mental health problems.










I have taken a moddy (white box) since about 45mins or so ago, I am feeling something off of it, just not sure i am able to define what it is yet.
Tonight I will take 1x25mg serry then not take again until i return from amsterdam on Monday.

Anyone ever done a Vally/Moddy combo before? how was it?
I'm also wondering if to take x1 nardy with this stack?

I've never had options before!

Thing is I don't want to negate the effects of the XTC/Speed I am 100% taking this weekend and possible psychedelics I may try the next day (truffles)

What say you?


----------



## V1bzz

Anyone have any contact info away from this forum for @watertouch to see if he is ok?
Haven't seen him for weeks!


----------



## adam1212

How long did you take nardul and ar what dose


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 man this moddy is completely different from that other stuff i tried. I currently have my mojo back!

ive been taking 15mg nardy for about a week or 2, i will now go 0 nardy weds,thurs.

You think i'm gunna be cleared enough to get flucked up on old skools friday and saturday mate?

I was worried about negative come down effects that bring back my debilitating paranoia and fear but feel safe now knowing i have the vally and moddy and serry to get some sleep.


----------



## V1bzz

adam1212 said:


> How long did you take nardul and ar what dose


Wow I just had to check the date of when i started this thread and it was end of february. mate i as horrendously ill for the first 2 or 3 months on nardil (longer maybe?)

I started 1 day x15 the 2 days x 30 then up to 45, think i moved to 60 after a month? then 75 for a month, then combo of 75 3 days a week and 90 4 days.

I have had 3 attempts to get it working since february and i'm only just giving up now, so you can kinda tell i have done all i can do to get it to fully work for me. I have failed.

First time around i dropped (im going by memory now so may be off on some points, my memory is flucked) while doing the 75,90 mixture I involuntarily withdrew, my body rejected nardil taken orally, it took me a week or two to notice that's why i was having bad head shocks.
I'm finding it really hard to remember but during that withdrawal sudenly nardil worked for me for 3 days, I was in heaven and felt like the me before the sickness totally took over my life. it was amazing. it motivated me to try again.
man i really am struggling to remember the order of things here, I withdrew one of the times because the fatigue and joint pain was just too much to handle and i needed relief for a few days. dropped to 45 from 75 and had a week where i felt so horny that i couldn't take it any more and went up to 60mg. it was fun for a few days but i was literally thinking about sex every second of the day from waking till sleep, that is no exaggeration. I've never felt anything like it.

Had another fresh start taking nardil sublingually as I could swallow any amount and it not get into my system
I tested this by swallowing 120mg and felt nothing. done 15mg sublingually and felt it going into my system.
well anyhoo, done that for a while, never got those 3 amazing days back, was in severe pain with edema and severe pain in my joints, cant remember what the pdoc called it.

It was just recently I gave in to my fight with nardil and decided to give parnate a go......and thats a whole nother story lol.

I know its a long thread but i would say to read it so you can be prepared for what may or may not happen to you and the treatments we discovered ourselves to make things a little easier on this drug.
If you want to know all the possible bad side effects that you could get you will see that too, I had every single one apart from insomnia!


----------



## Tandorini

Welcome to the Seroquel club, @VB1zz  It's not a TCA tho, it's an antipsychotic. But it's used for depression as well, especially bipolar depression. I've been on it for nearly three years now. It doesn't help all that much with my depression during the day, but it gives me peaceful nights. Even if I don't sleep, they still kinda shut my thoughts off, I don't lie there worrying about stuff.

I had hell trying to get off them, though. Felt physically ill, and couldn't sleep even with benzos. But I was in real bad shape back then (this was in the hospital), and also I went off them quite quickly.

A lot of people take 25-50 mg and sleep really well. I have little effect on those doses. I use 200 mg now, but they had me on 500 mg for quite some time. I remember it being -impossible- staying awake. I can honestly say I have no idea who any of the night nurses were during that time.

Well anyway, I think Seroquel/quetiapine is a good drug. It can even safely be combined with MAOIs, so even cautious doctors will let you do that.

I am glad you got to speak to someone nice for a change. And hopefully the Seroquel will take the edge off things.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* man this moddy is completely different from that other stuff i tried. I currently have my mojo back!
> 
> ive been taking 15mg nardy for about a week or 2, i will now go 0 nardy weds,thurs.
> 
> You think i'm gunna be cleared enough to get flucked up on old skools friday and saturday mate?
> 
> I was worried about negative come down effects that bring back my debilitating paranoia and fear but feel safe now knowing i have the vally and moddy and serry to get some sleep.


Cool man, it is legit pharmacy stuff so should be good. What dose are you taking ? I`m on 200mg every other day but as usual I ended up taking 600mg haha - I passed out in the toilet !! Must be low BP with nardil but I didnt notice any build up to it.

Get that phenylpiracetam stuff as well, mine turned up today, only 5 days since ordering from the US - Its cheap over there compared to some UK sites. It works well really well with moddy too - Got mine from nootropicsdepot

I`ll reply to your pm later but work have taking the piss a little bit this week and asked me to do some !! Got my kids right now as well.


----------



## V1bzz

I took 1 moddy and 1 vally this morning and think that they may be a bad cmbination, kinda makes sense really, an upper and a downer...i was hoping for it to just find a nice middle ground but it didnt work. ended up having to take 3 vally throughout the day which really doesn't do much but stop me from getting to that moment when i know flip out time is close.

I really don't want to take it though, it makes me itch so so badly, I have eczema anyway and it's literally just making me rip my hands apart, seems to be in the fingers mostly. Even double dropping an antihistamine doesn't even touch it.

I am just going to see how I go on Moddy tomorrow, will take 200mg when I wake up and then another 200mg around lunch time.
Vally doesnt really seem to do anything but stop me snapping and going off on one for a few hours. I feel no mood lift or calmness or anything really, I wouldn't even really know I had taken it if it wasn't for this horrible itching.

What is valium supposed to feel like? is this just another thing to add to my long list of stuff that don't do sh1t to help me get well?
@tandrini, knowing that nardil works for you but serry was **** does not fill me with hope that it is going to do anything positive for me.

Last night I took 25mg, it did make my eyes feel heavier but i could have quite easily just stayed up as i was feeling in a chatty mood from the moddy. Not going to bother tonight. I will take it properly when i get back from amsterdam on monday. I aint wasting my time on 25mg though, I will start at 50 ad if i am feeling zero improvement in my mental health by the time i see the pdoc on the 28th it will be getting binned.

Man when you hear the word valium you think harcore treatment...im pretty much thinking what a piece of **** it is, doesn't lift my mood at all and just makes me itch like a mother flucker.

Right im off here's hoping moddy is more beneficial to me than this valium crap useless waste of time. it doesn't even help anxiety, I had moments of old returning today even after 3 doses of valium throughout the day. I can't explain them. very brief moments, we're talking milliseconds here but it was enough to remind me that i can not go back there!!
I am also starting to feel social barriers starting to rebuild and my social interaction skills drop. I just couldn't say what i meant to say today, the stuff i said just sounded stupid and un natural.

anyhoo im going to bed. catch you all later. hope all are well and improving


----------



## sming

> Yup. Went exactly like I thought it would. He'd never heard of Parnate, but seemed interested enough. He has a lot on his plate though, so he wouldn't be able to look into it right away. He scheduled me for an appointment in four weeks, but promised to call if he found out something a lot earlier than that. He needs to talk to the people at the psych ward I was on.
> 
> So now all I can do is wait, I guess.


That wait time reminds me of the UK :/ 4 weeks is one helluva long time to wait if you're really suffering (which you're not thankfully). At least it wasn't a flat-out "no". 
If you decide to go for Parnate, be sure to push for a direct switch rather than washing out for 2 weeks (plus all the titrating down and back up again). I think the state you were apparently in when not on Nardil will work in your favour there.


----------



## V1bzz

Guys I took xtc on Friday night and I feel again like I did premarital. I'm in a terrible mess. Tears are coming out of my eyes as I'm writing this. I have lost my smile and the ability to be in any kind of social situation. The diazepam isn't helping. I've taken 4 already this morning but nothing has changed. My body is in agony and it's hard work to move around. I stayed in my room all day yesterday only popping out to a close shop to eat something once it was dark.

The only thing I can think of is getting truffles and microdosing them to help me today.

Does anyone have any ideas please?
It's urgent and I'm very desperate. I can't even go down for breakfast cos of how I feel.

Maybe smoke a joint? Will that help?

I need help ?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Guys I took xtc on Friday night and I feel again like I did premarital. I'm in a terrible mess. Tears are coming out of my eyes as I'm writing this. I have lost my smile and the ability to be in any kind of social situation. The diazepam isn't helping. I've taken 4 already this morning but nothing has changed. My body is in agony and it's hard work to move around. I stayed in my room all day yesterday only popping out to a close shop to eat something once it was dark.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is getting truffles and microdosing them to help me today.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas please?
> It's urgent and I'm very desperate. I can't even go down for breakfast cos of how I feel.
> 
> Maybe smoke a joint? Will that help?
> 
> I need help ?


Loads of joints and some beers mate - but watch the diaz with the beers


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> That wait time reminds me of the UK :/ 4 weeks is one helluva long time to wait if you're really suffering (which you're not thankfully). At least it wasn't a flat-out "no".
> If you decide to go for Parnate, be sure to push for a direct switch rather than washing out for 2 weeks (plus all the titrating down and back up again). I think the state you were apparently in when not on Nardil will work in your favour there.


If I had been suffering he would have get it done a lot quicker. He told me that this wasn't an urgent matter, so he'd have to put it on his "to-do-list", which unfortunately for us both has heaps of stuff on it. He said that if he was able to talk to them earlier than he thought he would be able to, he'd give me a call.

I am thinking about the washoutperiod, yeah. I really don't wanna go through that. Don't know if I will be able to convince them that it's not needed, though. But I know that I a) don't function well without meds and b) have a tendency to get really fukced up adjusting doses. Even going from 60 to 75 mg of Nardil gave me suicidal thoughts, even though I didn't have a death wish at the time. It's just like the thoughts were planted in my head, and I was like "wtf, I'm not about to off myself now, what's my brain going on about?" In short, I have less control over myself and my impulses when med changes are done. So if they do insist on a washout period that I can't possibly get away from, it might be a strong enough reason not to go with Parnate at all. I guess I'll have to talk it over with him the next we meet up.


----------



## V1bzz

well that horrendous experience is over and i just got back, tears flooding from my eyes the whole journey home and eve now. I arrived on friday ad went out that night, spent saturday and sunday in the room and left at 0800 this morning.

Im throwing all of that **** they have given me in the bin and going back on nardil, i'm just a complete mess and can't do anything.
I'm back at work tomorrow after my my so called 'well deserved break'...all its made me realize is I cant do anything ever again, no breaks or holidays, nothing.

I just don't know what to do now, I have not been this emotionally distraught since 2012 when life was at it's very worst for me.
@SFC01 is it worth me keeping the quetiapine and just taking 25mg on it while i get nardil properly back into my system?


----------



## WillComp

I finally decided to drop down to 60mg. I had been on 75mg for nearly 5 months. I only felt a slight improvement from 60mg to 75mg, and I figured the ongoing side effects aren't worth it. Anorgasmia, orthostatic hypotension, and daytime fatigue never subsided. I contacted Dr. Gilman over the weekend and was told side effects probably won't go away. 


My goal is to find a sweet spot.. hopefully it's 60mg.. and I can stay there permanently. In 2 weeks from now, if I'm still experiencing anorgasmia, I'll drop to 45mg for 2 weeks. Hopefully I'll enjoy 2 weeks of relief from anorgasmia. Then I'll go back to 60mg or 75mg, and plan to go on a no-fap (sorry - I hate that term too - haha) for 3 months. I've done the no-fap thing before and loved all the benefits. It significantly improved libido and um.. volume.. as you can imagine.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> well that horrendous experience is over and i just got back, tears flooding from my eyes the whole journey home and eve now. I arrived on friday ad went out that night, spent saturday and sunday in the room and left at 0800 this morning.
> 
> Im throwing all of that **** they have given me in the bin and going back on nardil, i'm just a complete mess and can't do anything.
> I'm back at work tomorrow after my my so called 'well deserved break'...all its made me realize is I cant do anything ever again, no breaks or holidays, nothing.
> 
> I just don't know what to do now, I have not been this emotionally distraught since 2012 when life was at it's very worst for me.
> 
> @*SFC01* is it worth me keeping the quetiapine and just taking 25mg on it while i get nardil properly back into my system?


 @V1bzz - man, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. If you ever want to IM me, please don't hesitate. And can tell me everything that's going on.

I'm glad to hear you're going back on Nardil. I would try to stay off the other stuff, any other medicine or drugs and just concentrate on finding your sweet spot with Nardil. I still thing you can. We all need to send positive vibes V1bzz's way!

I was a bit depressed and confused yesterday as I experienced another horrible dizziness spell while walking through a parking lot towards the grocery store. Everyone was looking at me, I couldn't see right, couldn't walk in a straight line, and my legs started wobbling uncontrollably, like a horse's shaky legs when they're too young to walk, or they're sick and about to buckle. There was no doubt in my mind I wouldn't make it all the way to the store or back to my car. People were staring at me and there was nothing to hold on to.

Somehow I managed to make it into the store and quickly grab onto a cart. My legs kept shaking for another 5-10 minutes and slowly subsided. Terrible experience, especially when you know this stuff aint going away, even after 5 months. This is too much to handle, hence the reason I'm dropping to 60mg this week.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz - man, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. If you ever want to IM me, please don't hesitate. And can tell me everything that's going on.
> 
> I'm glad to hear you're going back on Nardil. I would try to stay off the other stuff, any other medicine or drugs and just concentrate on finding your sweet spot with Nardil. I still thing you can. We all need to send positive vibes V1bzz's way!
> 
> I was a bit depressed and confused yesterday as I experienced another horrible dizziness spell while walking through a parking lot towards the grocery store. Everyone was looking at me, I couldn't see right, couldn't walk in a straight line, and my legs started wobbling uncontrollably, like a horse's shaky legs when they're too young to walk, or they're sick and about to buckle. There was no doubt in my mind I wouldn't make it all the way to the store or back to my car. People were staring at me and there was nothing to hold on to.
> 
> Somehow I managed to make it into the store and quickly grab onto a cart. My legs kept shaking for another 5-10 minutes and slowly subsided. Terrible experience, especially when you know this stuff aint going away, even after 5 months. This is too much to handle, hence the reason I'm dropping to 60mg this week.


Wow, I haven't had anything like this on 60mg of Nardil. I don't notice any hypotension and I'm also taking Clonidine and Propranolol.


----------



## WillComp

AtlantaPhobic said:


> Wow, I haven't had anything like this on 60mg of Nardil. I don't notice any hypotension and I'm also taking Clonidine and Propranolol.


How long have you been on 60? Did you ever go higher than 60?

When you first started at 60, did you experience anorgasmia? I heard around 33% of Nardil users experience anorgasmia at a dose of 60 or higher - guess I'm one of the unlucky ones.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

V1bzz said:


> Guys I took xtc on Friday night and I feel again like I did premarital. I'm in a terrible mess. Tears are coming out of my eyes as I'm writing this. I have lost my smile and the ability to be in any kind of social situation. The diazepam isn't helping. I've taken 4 already this morning but nothing has changed. My body is in agony and it's hard work to move around. I stayed in my room all day yesterday only popping out to a close shop to eat something once it was dark.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is getting truffles and microdosing them to help me today.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas please?
> It's urgent and I'm very desperate. I can't even go down for breakfast cos of how I feel.
> 
> Maybe smoke a joint? Will that help?
> 
> I need help ?


Stop all medications and go jogging 20 minutes every morning. Nardil will turn you into a mess. I don't know about Parnate but the food restrictions, medications restrictions and inability to get the poison out make it a deal breaker.


----------



## WillComp

Captainmycaptain said:


> Stop all medications and go jogging 20 minutes every morning. Nardil will turn you into a mess. I don't know about Parnate but the food restrictions, medications restrictions and inability to get the poison out make it a deal breaker.


If Nardil is effective and life-changing, as it has been for me, why would Nardil be a bad thing. It's not going to turn me into a mess. I figure I'm gonna be a lifer on Nardil. I just need to find my sweet spot, and I'll continue to be the happiest I've ever been in my life. And running once a week and lifting weights 3 times a week is enough for me. This routine has kept me in shape and allowed me to gradually get back to where I was pre-Nardil. I feel great.. except for this damn anorgasmia which I have a plan to combat (dropping to 60 and maybe 45 for 2 weeks), orthostatic hypotension which I'll combat by keeping up water intake and increasing sodium via salt tablets, and fatigue by taking caffeine pills which have been effective when remembering to take them.


----------



## WillComp

Gotta get back to work. So far I feel the same on 60. It'll be interesting to see where I'm at in 2 weeks. Will check back here later. Hope everyone's day changes for the better.. Have a great day, all!


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* is it worth me keeping the quetiapine and just taking 25mg on it while i get nardil properly back into my system?


Sorry you aint doing well mate but yeah keep getting the quetiapine prescription as its always handy for sleep and can help anxiety as well.

When do you see the new pdoc?


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> I finally decided to drop down to 60mg. I had been on 75mg for nearly 5 months. I only felt a slight improvement from 60mg to 75mg, and I figured the ongoing side effects aren't worth it. Anorgasmia, orthostatic hypotension, and daytime fatigue never subsided. I contacted Dr. Gilman over the weekend and was told side effects probably won't go away.
> 
> My goal is to find a sweet spot.. hopefully it's 60mg.. and I can stay there permanently. In 2 weeks from now, if I'm still experiencing anorgasmia, I'll drop to 45mg for 2 weeks. Hopefully I'll enjoy 2 weeks of relief from anorgasmia. Then I'll go back to 60mg or 75mg, and plan to go on a no-fap (sorry - I hate that term too - haha) for 3 months. I've done the no-fap thing before and loved all the benefits. It significantly improved libido and um.. volume.. as you can imagine.


Does Dr. Gilman answer questions from people in general, or do you have some kind of connection to him?

Seems you reached the same conclusion I did. I went back to 60 mg after 6 weeks on 75 mg. The fatigue was way to hard to live with. Why did Dr. G reckon the sides wouldn't go away? Was it because it had lasted 5 months already? How long does he reckon a side has to persist in order for it to most likely be there for ever?

My anorgasmia went away after 2-3 months on 60 mg, and didn't return on 75 mg, so I guess I was lucky there.

I have been feeling more down lately. I feel exhausted, and all of a sudden tears come running down my cheeks. It's different to what it was before, where I would feel desperate and hopeless, only wanting to die. Now it's just tears of exhaustion, kinda, but it makes me sad, and I worry about my future, if I'll be stuck in this limbo forever. Nardil has lifted my mood a great deal, but I still don't feel happy or anything. But I feel worse now than what I did only a month or two ago. That worries me a great deal.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

WillComp said:


> How long have you been on 60? Did you ever go higher than 60?
> 
> When you first started at 60, did you experience anorgasmia? I heard around 33% of Nardil users experience anorgasmia at a dose of 60 or higher - guess I'm one of the unlucky ones.


I've only been on it for 17 days at 60mg. Spent 2 days at 15mg, 2 days on 30mg, then jumped up to 60mg as I would rather have side effects than high anxiety - I have a family and a demanding job.

I haven't experienced anorgasmia at all yet. My main sexual side effect (once I dropped down Neurontin which made me completely impotent) is my libido is down about 90%. Still can get excited with my wife but staying with it is tough although everything seems to work normally if I can keep my desire up (uh, "up").

I haven't tried going up on the dose and don't plan to until I've given Nardil a full three months at 60mg as I don't want further side effects. I have a treatment log I am keeping that is on the front page of Medications.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

WillComp said:


> If Nardil is effective and life-changing, as it has been for me, why would Nardil be a bad thing. It's not going to turn me into a mess. I figure I'm gonna be a lifer on Nardil. I just need to find my sweet spot, and I'll continue to be the happiest I've ever been in my life. And running once a week and lifting weights 3 times a week is enough for me. This routine has kept me in shape and allowed me to gradually get back to where I was pre-Nardil. I feel great.. except for this damn anorgasmia which I have a plan to combat (dropping to 60 and maybe 45 for 2 weeks), orthostatic hypotension which I'll combat by keeping up water intake and increasing sodium via salt tablets, and fatigue by taking caffeine pills which have been effective when remembering to take them.


I also lift weights three to four times a week which is helpful. I don't do any real cardio though as I hate it. Feel like I get enough through hard lifting.


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Does Dr. Gilman answer questions from people in general, or do you have some kind of connection to him?
> 
> Seems you reached the same conclusion I did. I went back to 60 mg after 6 weeks on 75 mg. The fatigue was way to hard to live with. Why did Dr. G reckon the sides wouldn't go away? Was it because it had lasted 5 months already? How long does he reckon a side has to persist in order for it to most likely be there for ever?
> 
> My anorgasmia went away after 2-3 months on 60 mg, and didn't return on 75 mg, so I guess I was lucky there.
> 
> I have been feeling more down lately. I feel exhausted, and all of a sudden tears come running down my cheeks. It's different to what it was before, where I would feel desperate and hopeless, only wanting to die. Now it's just tears of exhaustion, kinda, but it makes me sad, and I worry about my future, if I'll be stuck in this limbo forever. Nardil has lifted my mood a great deal, but I still don't feel happy or anything. But I feel worse now than what I did only a month or two ago. That worries me a great deal.


Dr. Gilman answers questions from anyone. I was browsing through his site the other day and noticed the Contact page. I believe it's [email protected]. He says he prefers Skype over email. I can't remember my messaging passwords so I wrote him an email with about 10 paragraphs, and literally within 1 minute I got a response. Initially I wondered if it was a programmed response. He quoted my last sentence, 'How would you recommend I proceed'? and he responded, 'keep up water intake and increase sodium intake'. So I emailed again, 5 minutes later another short response but a bit more detailed, so it definitely wasn't programmed.

Not sure why he thinks the side effects will stick around, presumably because they've lasted this long on 75mg. I'm glad I dropped to 60 this week. It's day 3 on 60mg and I feel the same as you described in your last paragraph. I'm not really worried about it though. I just figure, whatever happens, happens. I figure there's a better chance the 3 side effects will greatly diminish when I've been on 60mg for ~10 days. I have a lot of options to play around with.

Today I feel sort of numb and a slight increase in anxiety. I wish I could leave work and go back to bed, although it would be difficult to ever get out today. I'm so damn sleepy. I'm in one of those moods where I hope I don't have to see many people, and I feel like avoiding everyone. I feel like I could cry but I hate crying, and once I start I can't stop. If I get enough energy today, maybe I'll force myself to change my mood and get out to the golfing driving range after work, block out any negative thoughts and just enjoy the evening. If I continue to feel worse, I'll bump it back up to 75 in 2 wks from now.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Dr. Gilman answers questions from anyone. I was browsing through his site the other day and noticed the Contact page. I believe it's [email protected]. He says he prefers Skype over email. I can't remember my messaging passwords so I wrote him an email with about 10 paragraphs, and literally within 1 minute I got a response. Initially I wondered if it was a programmed response. He quoted my last sentence, 'How would you recommend I proceed'? and he responded, 'keep up water intake and increase sodium intake'. So I emailed again, 5 minutes later another short response but a bit more detailed, so it definitely wasn't programmed.
> 
> Not sure why he thinks the side effects will stick around, presumably because they've lasted this long on 75mg. I'm glad I dropped to 60 this week. It's day 3 on 60mg and I feel the same as you described in your last paragraph. I'm not really worried about it though. I just figure, whatever happens, happens. I figure there's a better chance the 3 side effects will greatly diminish when I've been on 60mg for ~10 days. I have a lot of options to play around with.
> 
> Today I feel sort of numb and a slight increase in anxiety. I wish I could leave work and go back to bed, although it would be difficult to ever get out today. I'm so damn sleepy. I'm in one of those moods where I hope I don't have to see many people, and I feel like avoiding everyone. I feel like I could cry but I hate crying, and once I start I can't stop. If I get enough energy today, maybe I'll force myself to change my mood and get out to the golfing driving range after work, block out any negative thoughts and just enjoy the evening. If I continue to feel worse, I'll bump it back up to 75 in 2 wks from now.


Thanks for the tips about emailing Dr. Gillman! I will concider doing that, or maybe even tip off my pdoc if he can't give me a straight answer about Parnate.

You could be experiencing some rebound effect from dropping down to 60 mg, I guess. In that case you should feel better quite soon. I hope you will be able to get out and change your focus a bit. That is really hard when the main side effect of Nardil is fatigue, I can barely function after a day at work. But luckily I don't have to stay in a dark room or anything like people with CFS, I can still watch TV or talk to a friend or something.


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah I also spoke to dr gillman a few months ago, he confirmed for me to try nardil sublingually.

strangest thing happened to me last night and it was not nice at all. I woke up about a couple of hours after going to sleep but was paralyzed and couldn't speak. it was so scary. I kept trying to shout for help but mumbles just came out, i was dribbling all over my pillow. this went on for over an hour. Finally I managed to move one of my legs out of the bed and started banging the side with my foot trying to bang it as hard as i possible could to get some attention, also shouting help but with nothing coming out. I could hear my parents saying whats that noise and then coming in and saying 'he's just dreaming' and i was trying to say no im not i'm awake, i'm awake, i cant move or speak.
My dad started shaking me and sorta moving my face saying 'i cant wake him up' I was fully conscious during the whole thing. Dad shook me some more and i seemed to snap out of it and i could move and speak again.
I told them i couldn't move and couldn't speak but was aware of everything going on.
I lay in bed after that shivering for a little bit feeling really scared to fall asleep incase it happened again.
I don't know what the fluck happened there but it has scared the life out of me.

I'm not taking none of that crap they have given me any more and am going up to minimum dose of nardil again. I am not allowing them to fluck with my well being like this just cos that cnut of a doctor doesn't want me on MAOI's!

anyone else ever experienced anything like this?

I was just reading this - https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolinekee/sleep-paralysis-is-scary-af?utm_term=.pfzeq9exq#.rje3RJ3qR

I also felt like there was an evil presence in the room. Really hope it doesn't happen tonight!!


----------



## V1bzz

Hope nardil bloody settles for you soon mate with all these changes in mood @WillComp

Just let my recent posts remind you of how life used to be and stick at it mate, hopefully when it does this sh1t it's just trying to find a way to work for you better. I always image it in my head as a battle, sort a like good between evil, just sometimes the baddies get the upper hand but the good guys get the most wins


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Y
> anyone else ever experienced anything like this?
> 
> I was just reading this - https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolinekee/sleep-paralysis-is-scary-af?utm_term=.pfzeq9exq#.rje3RJ3qR
> 
> I also felt like there was an evil presence in the room. Really hope it doesn't happen tonight!!


Could well have been the xtc from your dam trip mate.

I used to get this regularly back in the day when I was getting pilled up all the time - didnt mind the sleep paralysis itself but didnt like the evil presence in the room. Used to feel like someone was slowly walking over to me and I just couldn't wake up - ****ing scary.

The other version was weird though, I used to be lying there assuming I was awake, aware of evrrything but just unable to move or talk, just trying to flap my arms about to wake me up, then eventually I was able to move my arm


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> If I had been suffering he would have get it done a lot quicker. He told me that this wasn't an urgent matter, so he'd have to put it on his "to-do-list", which unfortunately for us both has heaps of stuff on it. He said that if he was able to talk to them earlier than he thought he would be able to, he'd give me a call.
> 
> I am thinking about the washoutperiod, yeah. I really don't wanna go through that. Don't know if I will be able to convince them that it's not needed, though. But I know that I a) don't function well without meds and b) have a tendency to get really fukced up adjusting doses. Even going from 60 to 75 mg of Nardil gave me suicidal thoughts, even though I didn't have a death wish at the time. It's just like the thoughts were planted in my head, and I was like "wtf, I'm not about to off myself now, what's my brain going on about?" In short, I have less control over myself and my impulses when med changes are done. So if they do insist on a washout period that I can't possibly get away from, it might be a strong enough reason not to go with Parnate at all. I guess I'll have to talk it over with him the next we meet up.


I'm the same. I've tried the "natural" (i.e. no meds) thing once or twice and rapidly became a non-functioning crying zombie. And changing meds is usually hell. I dread it. Perhaps that's why today was a bad one - I increased Parnate 50->60mg a couple of days ago.

Let's hope they don't insist on that washout.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Could well have been the xtc from your dam trip mate.
> 
> I used to get this regularly back in the day when I was getting pilled up all the time - didnt mind the sleep paralysis itself but didnt like the evil presence in the room. Used to feel like someone was slowly walking over to me and I just couldn't wake up - ****ing scary.
> 
> The other version was weird though, I used to be lying there assuming I was awake, aware of everything but just unable to move or talk, just trying to flap my arms about to wake me up, then eventually I was able to move my arm


Hey mate, I did a little research and it seems folks taking seroquel (Quetiapine ) this type of thing is very common.
Needless to say I have not touched the stuff since.

Well this week I started back on Nardil, taking two in the morning around 06:20 then taking one in the evening around 20:00.
I some how managed to break a metatarsal or two in the dam but really don't know how, surely when I was on XTC and went off to wherever it took me that I have not experienced before. Mate said I was 100% very frequently somewhere other than the club mentally that night. Doing things and saying things, as if I had travelled mentally to another place. (not in the mood to get deep on all that stuff right now like higher consciousness contact and all that jazz (which i totally believe in))(the ones who want to teach and the ones who want to damage you)

Well all week I have felt pretty miserable but today I started to feel the effects of Nardil getting back into my system. around 9am I was loving music and it a really positive vibe in spurts for most of today. It was nice.
I didn't need or even think about taking a valium today. Thought never entered my mind....where as yesterday I think I took 4 and day before 6.

I'm wondering if Nardil will give me a break and work properly for me this time :smile2:

Oh Mr Narc came back for the first time in a while today on my drive home and had me in a few scary moments, boy I haven't missed that! Guess I will have to get some energy tablets for now and then see if half a moddy will be beneficial for me taken around early afternoon.

Just to p1ss @WillComp off a bit :kiss: damn mate my mojo has returned this week, i'm lucky if I can hold out longer than about a minute at the moment and it's intense sh1t man. Thought I would rub that in a little bit (pun intended) before Nardil takes it away from me again.

Umm just a thought but are you able to get diazepam at all, I swear it gives me the horn and may relax you enough to get some relief that I know you need lol.....worth a shot?

Thought I would drop a little update there about where i'm at and heading, in the right direction this time I think.
I have not spoken to or gone into the new doctors since they thought it would be fun to **** me up and make me really sick again.

I have a NHS Pdoc appointment on the 28th, I don't expect much. I may not even ask for parnate or anything, stopping Nardil for those few weeks was enough for me to know I would prefer to be where I was, which was far from where i really want and hope to be, but it is a million times better than how I have been feeling since I stopped.

I had forgotten how horrific life used to be for me and just can't go back there again!

I hope all of the regs and all of the new folks in this thread are doing well, I hope I can be a more active part of this thread again once I get myself onto an even keel again.

Chat soon :smile2:


----------



## V1bzz

sming said:


> I'm the same. I've tried the "natural" (i.e. no meds) thing once or twice and rapidly became a non-functioning crying zombie. And changing meds is usually hell. I dread it. Perhaps that's why today was a bad one - I increased Parnate 50->60mg a couple of days ago.
> 
> Let's hope they don't insist on that washout.


 @Tandorini, Lie to them if they do say they are going to give it to you, say you have been in washout for a couple of weeks in hopeful preparation for the swap, mentioning that symptoms are returning fast now your unmedicated and need the decision urgently to restart back on the Nardil or start taking the Parnate.

Also put some time into googling 'switching from Nardil to parnate' which i'm sure you have been doing any way. just to see what people who have actually taken the drugs, not mentally well doctors who think they know because a book says so, have done the switch. I did a little and read folks stayed on both and lowered the nardil as they felt the parnate start to take effect.

These people are going to know far more than any doctor or Pdoc about this kinda thing. I would bet that Gillman would say to just titrate the two until you are feeling it.


----------



## V1bzz

Oh, forgot to mention that i'm back to taking my vit B complex, one every evening.

Another thing to add that i'm expecting to return is that I have lost all interest in chocolate and junky type stuff. I loved it on Nardil. Never really liked chocolate bars but would occasionally have a snickers or choc tracker, my faves. I have always kinda been a crisps guy (chips for you yanks  ) well for many many yrs until nardil, stopped eating crisps completely and switched to chocolate lol.


----------



## sming

V1bzz said:


> @Tandorini, Lie to them if they do say they are going to give it to you, say you have been in washout for a couple of weeks in hopeful preparation for the swap, mentioning that symptoms are returning fast now your unmedicated and need the decision urgently to restart back on the Nardil or start taking the Parnate.
> 
> Also put some time into googling 'switching from Nardil to parnate' which i'm sure you have been doing any way. just to see what people who have actually taken the drugs, not mentally well doctors who think they know because a book says so, have done the switch. I did a little and read folks stayed on both and lowered the nardil as they felt the parnate start to take effect.
> 
> These people are going to know far more than any doctor or Pdoc about this kinda thing. I would bet that Gillman would say to just titrate the two until you are feeling it.


Agreed. I completely lied to my PDoc when switching to Parnate. I stayed on low-dose Abilify, oxycodone and Vyvanse during most of the washout phase. It's not my problem he doesn't want to do actual work and research the reality of these medications.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Just to p1ss @*WillComp* off a bit :kiss: damn mate my mojo has returned this week, i'm lucky if I can hold out longer than about a minute at the moment and it's intense sh1t man. Thought I would rub that in a little bit (pun intended) before Nardil takes it away from me again.
> 
> Umm just a thought but are you able to get diazepam at all, I swear it gives me the horn and may relax you enough to get some relief that I know you need lol.....worth a shot?
> 
> Thought I would drop a little update there about where i'm at and heading, in the right direction this time I think.
> I have not spoken to or gone into the new doctors since they thought it would be fun to **** me up and make me really sick again.
> 
> I have a NHS Pdoc appointment on the 28th, I don't expect much. I may not even ask for parnate or anything, stopping Nardil for those few weeks was enough for me to know I would prefer to be where I was, which was far from where i really want and hope to be, but it is a million times better than how I have been feeling since I stopped.
> 
> I had forgotten how horrific life used to be for me and just can't go back there again!
> 
> I hope all of the regs and all of the new folks in this thread are doing well, I hope I can be a more active part of this thread again once I get myself onto an even keel again.
> 
> Chat soon :smile2:


Damn... you lucky man :rub Gotta say, I'm jealous. It's funny how each dosage brings on its own set of side effects. I remember at 45, I had no problem getting it done. Then at 60, :bash !!!

I'm hoping the drop from 75 to 60 does something.. because I've been on 75 for such a long time. After a while if it doesn't work, I'm almost positive dropping down to 45 for a week or two will take care of it. I need the relief and then a long nap.

Stoked you're feeling like you're heading in the right direction. I can tell from your last few posts that you're happier now than you've been in the last couple weeks. Stay away from those evil doctors. > If you're lucky to find a good one, then stick with him/her but that's sort of like finding a needle in a haystack when it comes to drs with experience and knowledge about Nardil. Just do what you feel is right for you. I hope Nardil continues to do its work.

By the way, a little off topic, has anyone here heard of the benefits of pink Himalayan salt. I came across a youtube video; it's pretty convincing. And from the comments, it appears that it's working for a lot of people. I'm surprised I've never heard about it on these forums.

Here's the video:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Damn... you lucky man :rub Gotta say, I'm jealous. It's funny how each dosage brings on its own set of side effects. I remember at 45, I had no problem getting it done. Then at 60, :bash !!!
> 
> I'm hoping the drop from 75 to 60 does something.. because I've been on 75 for such a long time. After a while if it doesn't work, I'm almost positive dropping down to 45 for a week or two will take care of it. I need the relief and then a long nap.
> 
> Stoked you're feeling like you're heading in the right direction. I can tell from your last few posts that you're happier now than you've been in the last couple weeks. Stay away from those evil doctors. > If you're lucky to find a good one, then stick with him/her but that's sort of like finding a needle in a haystack when it comes to drs with experience and knowledge about Nardil. Just do what you feel is right for you. I hope Nardil continues to do its work.
> 
> By the way, a little off topic, has anyone here heard of the benefits of pink Himalayan salt. I came across a youtube video; it's pretty convincing. And from the comments, it appears that it's working for a lot of people. I'm surprised I've never heard about it on these forums.
> 
> Here's the video:


Thanks for sharing that mate, i'm defo going to get me some of that!!


----------



## SSRIManiac

Ugh, after getting my dose to 45mg I'm starting to feel brain fog and heavy in my body. Does this go away? I hate this feeling, it's kinda like being on Trazodone.


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 Ok so I was driving back from work today, about an hour drive, about half way through I felt Mr Narc start to kick in!
I came prepared today with 1x200 mg Modafinil and dropped it (this was about 14:30 ish)

Man it kicked in about 15 mins before I got back to the depot and a swear I felt a bit fubared, was chatting so much sh1t it was crazy. Even popped into a sex shop here and got some poppers....only because I was thinking about when I used to do it back in the day while travelling to a rave, got myself a bottle of liquid gold and some Rave lol.

Really weird how first time i took the moddy i felt buzzed, 2nd time it made me feel like sh1t all day and today it made me feel a bit of my t1ts, like zero flucks given kinda stuff lol. Only prob was is that i kinda wanted to chillax once I finished work and i've been on it all day lol.
@WillComp - ever thought about giving the good ole poppers a go? they are a muscle relaxant really, specifically for the pubococcygeal (PC) muscles, the ones that determine the strength and whether or not you are going to do the bigsniz.
@watertouch .... where the fluck are you man, let us know you are ok!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> @*Tandorini* , Lie to them if they do say they are going to give it to you, say you have been in washout for a couple of weeks in hopeful preparation for the swap, mentioning that symptoms are returning fast now your unmedicated and need the decision urgently to restart back on the Nardil or start taking the Parnate.
> 
> Also put some time into googling 'switching from Nardil to parnate' which i'm sure you have been doing any way. just to see what people who have actually taken the drugs, not mentally well doctors who think they know because a book says so, have done the switch. I did a little and read folks stayed on both and lowered the nardil as they felt the parnate start to take effect.
> 
> These people are going to know far more than any doctor or Pdoc about this kinda thing. I would bet that Gillman would say to just titrate the two until you are feeling it.


I dunno, I mean, it's tempting to follow the advice of Dr. Gillman and the advice from people who have actually tried this, as that would probably benefit my mental health more than going through a washout period would. Then again, I am keen to keep a good relation with this new pdoc. The last thing he said, as I was leaving his office, was "so until further notice, you will stay at Nardil 60 mg, right? No more, no less? Indefinitely." And I agreed. The new pdoc trusting me will help me more in the long run I guess, while following Dr. Gillmann and other people's advice will benefit me in the short run.

I have been known to change my meds at my own initiative, sometimes without telling the doctors, and sometimes resulting in me getting quite unwell. Feeling the urge to change meds has been one of the symptoms of me getting worse. So if I start being inpatient now, letting him know this will have to happen fast, he might take it as a sign of me deteriorating, and then not want to change my meds in a phase like that. If I had been unwell I would never have accepted him taking 4 weeks to research the question. I remember from being really depressed, I would get so upset if someone said that things would take time, or that I would have to wait. I mean, I couldn't see myself living two hours more, let alone 4 weeks.

I'll give this new pdoc a chance, he seemed genuinly interested when hearing about Parnate, and asking me what my sources were. I even mentioned Dr. Gillman's webpage, and he made a note of it. So hopefully he will make a decision that will benefit me. He already said something about this being a new drug to him, and me having to have to take part of the risk myself, but he trusted me to do that, if I was to start using it. I am not desperate to try Parnate. I mean, Nardil works quite well for me. If it works, don't fukc with it, right? But it is tempting. I just want them to concider it, that's all.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> I dunno, I mean, it's tempting to follow the advice of Dr. Gillman and the advice from people who have actually tried this, as that would probably benefit my mental health more than going through a washout period would. Then again, I am keen to keep a good relation with this new pdoc. The last thing he said, as I was leaving his office, was "so until further notice, you will stay at Nardil 60 mg, right? No more, no less? Indefinitely." And I agreed. The new pdoc trusting me will help me more in the long run I guess, while following Dr. Gillmann and other people's advice will benefit me in the short run.
> 
> I have been known to change my meds at my own initiative, sometimes without telling the doctors, and sometimes resulting in me getting quite unwell. Feeling the urge to change meds has been one of the symptoms of me getting worse. So if I start being inpatient now, letting him know this will have to happen fast, he might take it as a sign of me deteriorating, and then not want to change my meds in a phase like that. If I had been unwell I would never have accepted him taking 4 weeks to research the question. I remember from being really depressed, I would get so upset if someone said that things would take time, or that I would have to wait. I mean, I couldn't see myself living two hours more, let alone 4 weeks.
> 
> I'll give this new pdoc a chance, he seemed genuinly interested when hearing about Parnate, and asking me what my sources were. I even mentioned Dr. Gillman's webpage, and he made a note of it. So hopefully he will make a decision that will benefit me. He already said something about this being a new drug to him, and me having to have to take part of the risk myself, but he trusted me to do that, if I was to start using it. I am not desperate to try Parnate. I mean, Nardil works quite well for me. If it works, don't fukc with it, right? But it is tempting. I just want them to concider it, that's all.


Yes that's a tricky situation you're in. You're not "well" but you're about the best you've known. "Stick or twist". I couldn't find any papers or data on hot-switching between MAOIs when I looked. I'd be interested if anyone knows of any. Should Parnate not work out for me, which it's currently not, I want to avoid wash out at all costs too and try a different MAOI. I dunno, I'm trying not to think about that possibility too much and just focus on giving Parnate 6 weeks if I can last that long. I've already gone down to 40mg from 60mg due to a massive increase in depression at 60mg. Sigh.


----------



## cigpk

Hey ladies n gents. Hope everyone is rockin' and rolllin'... I've had to come off of Nardil unfortunately... I was getting like 2 hours of sleep a night max even when I dropped my dose down to 30 mg and combined it with Trazodone/Mirtazepine/Seroquel.... I'm not really sure what happened  plus my OCD started up again.

My doc wanted to try me on emsam so I was taking that for like 3 days because he gave me samples and then I found out my insurance was going to charge me $350/mo for the patches so I said no way.. Next thing is to re try Parnate which I am ok with since I did feel as though it was beneficial for me. I'll probably keep it at around 40 mg or so this time and then augment with Mirtaz for sleep since I also get some anxiety reduction from it as well.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> Yes that's a tricky situation you're in. You're not "well" but you're about the best you've known. "Stick or twist". I couldn't find any papers or data on hot-switching between MAOIs when I looked. I'd be interested if anyone knows of any. Should Parnate not work out for me, which it's currently not, I want to avoid wash out at all costs too and try a different MAOI. I dunno, I'm trying not to think about that possibility too much and just focus on giving Parnate 6 weeks if I can last that long. I've already gone down to 40mg from 60mg due to a massive increase in depression at 60mg. Sigh.


How long did you stay at 60 mg for? As I've mentioned earlier, my mind gets fukced up by going up and down on meds. I get (more) suicidal, I feel strange impulsiveness that I don't experience otherwise, etc. Starting and increasing Nardil gave me these thoughts, but once I have stuck to a dose for a couple of weeks, it goes away, and after a few more weeks, it shows some effect.

I started Nardil in mid February, and started slowly getting better starting after only a couple of weeks, I think. But I didn't quite recognize it at the time, because I still was severely depressed. Also, the fatigue side effect and the troubled sleep made it seem like I was getting worse, not better. It took nearly two months for me to recognize that all in all, I was actually getting better, I could believe that Nardil might actually work. And after that, I have still been improving, very slowly. I guess that when you've been severely depressed, over time, it doesn't just change back to normal by taking medication. Your mind actually has to adapt to the effects of the medication, your behavior has to change back to somewhat normal, it all seems to lag behind a bit, if you know what I mean. That's just a theory of mine, though. It's like my mind can't really believe that the depression has gotten so much better, it takes some time to "wake up". Besides, the side effects of Nardil, especially the fatigue, is another obstacle in daily life. It really annoys me. My mood is almost well enough to go back to work, it feels like, but now I can't even last a full day, because I get so exhausted.

Just woke up from a nearly two hour nap. They're awesome though, the Nardil naps.


----------



## Tandorini

cigpk said:


> Hey ladies n gents. Hope everyone is rockin' and rolllin'... I've had to come off of Nardil unfortunately... I was getting like 2 hours of sleep a night max even when I dropped my dose down to 30 mg and combined it with Trazodone/Mirtazepine/Seroquel.... I'm not really sure what happened  plus my OCD started up again.
> 
> My doc wanted to try me on emsam so I was taking that for like 3 days because he gave me samples and then I found out my insurance was going to charge me $350/mo for the patches so I said no way.. Next thing is to re try Parnate which I am ok with since I did feel as though it was beneficial for me. I'll probably keep it at around 40 mg or so this time and then augment with Mirtaz for sleep since I also get some anxiety reduction from it as well.


350 dollars a month? Sh*t...who the hell do they think can afford that? The doctor should have known better than to give you samples of that, he probably knew what the fees were.

Here we only get the Seligilin tablets, and it's only prescribed for Parkinsons's disease. The patches cannot be prescribed at all, as far as I can see, not even through special application, like you have to do to get Nardil or Parnate.

Nah, it's gonna be either Nardil or Parnate for me, I guess. I do use Seroquel as well, but I wanna try to reduce the dose a little from 200 mg. I don't like the way it makes me feel, I feel all drugged down as I doze off to sleep. Upon starting Nardil I actually fall asleep more easy than before, and even though I wake up ridiculosly early still, I want to see if I can do with less Seroquel.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> How long did you stay at 60 mg for? As I've mentioned earlier, my mind gets fukced up by going up and down on meds. I get (more) suicidal, I feel strange impulsiveness that I don't experience otherwise, etc. Starting and increasing Nardil gave me these thoughts, but once I have stuck to a dose for a couple of weeks, it goes away, and after a few more weeks, it shows some effect.
> 
> I started Nardil in mid February, and started slowly getting better starting after only a couple of weeks, I think. But I didn't quite recognize it at the time, because I still was severely depressed. Also, the fatigue side effect and the troubled sleep made it seem like I was getting worse, not better. It took nearly two months for me to recognize that all in all, I was actually getting better, I could believe that Nardil might actually work. And after that, I have still been improving, very slowly. I guess that when you've been severely depressed, over time, it doesn't just change back to normal by taking medication. Your mind actually has to adapt to the effects of the medication, your behavior has to change back to somewhat normal, it all seems to lag behind a bit, if you know what I mean. That's just a theory of mine, though. It's like my mind can't really believe that the depression has gotten so much better, it takes some time to "wake up". Besides, the side effects of Nardil, especially the fatigue, is another obstacle in daily life. It really annoys me. My mood is almost well enough to go back to work, it feels like, but now I can't even last a full day, because I get so exhausted.
> 
> Just woke up from a nearly two hour nap. They're awesome though, the Nardil naps.


I only stayed at 60mg for 3 days because that's all I could bear. I went moodwise from 5-6/10 to 2/10 which was really galling and alarming. I don't know it was the increase that caused the crash in mood, it's just the most obvious culprit. I'm not done with Parnate, I'm just hoping and praying I went too high too fast. On askapatient.com I see a lot of folks doing great on lower doses (20-30mg) so that's the plan. Historically I cannot tolerate "therapeutic" dose for almost all meds I've tried, I've no idea why. I just hoped because it's such a radically different mechanism of action that Parnate would be different. Perhaps not.

I 100% agree with your theory of your habits, behaviors and thought patterns being so ingrained that you "lag" behind your brain's recovery from depression. When doing a bit better I found myself in bed at 8pm despite feeling OK and thinking "what am I doing?" The habit was so, so strong to just end the day as fast as possible.

I vividly remember the Nardil somnolence. Nothing I tried worked, it was such a bummer side effect. At the beginning it was a blessing since my OCD was rampant and it just zoned me out. Later though it was problematic like you say. Makes working in an office super difficult. I used to nap in a nearby gym, heh. Having an understanding boss is critical. If they see that overall you're getting your stuff done, a good boss will be cool with it.


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Hey ladies n gents. Hope everyone is rockin' and rolllin'... I've had to come off of Nardil unfortunately... I was getting like 2 hours of sleep a night max even when I dropped my dose down to 30 mg and combined it with Trazodone/Mirtazepine/Seroquel.... I'm not really sure what happened  plus my OCD started up again.
> 
> My doc wanted to try me on emsam so I was taking that for like 3 days because he gave me samples and then I found out my insurance was going to charge me $350/mo for the patches so I said no way.. Next thing is to re try Parnate which I am ok with since I did feel as though it was beneficial for me. I'll probably keep it at around 40 mg or so this time and then augment with Mirtaz for sleep since I also get some anxiety reduction from it as well.


How long were you on nardil for mate? thing is, one of the early phases is a massive motivation not to sleep because it's wasting time, waking up hourly hoping its time to get up. I had massive sleep issues pre Nardil, even though I really did learn to love that phase of being up super early (i actually didn't sleep for 3 days and 2 nights because i just wanted to get sh1t done)....it passes, nardil has been a life saver for me sleep wise. I can now get into a bed and be gone 5-10 mins after getting in it. Pre nardil it used to take me 4-5hrs to fall asleep.

If it was working for you it's a shame the sleep thing has forced you off. Man I didn't stop Nardil for nothing lol, dunno if you read this thread from the start but Nardil got me very very sick first 2-3 months.


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Hey ladies n gents. Hope everyone is rockin' and rolllin'... I've had to come off of Nardil unfortunately... I was getting like 2 hours of sleep a night max even when I dropped my dose down to 30 mg and combined it with Trazodone/Mirtazepine/Seroquel.... I'm not really sure what happened  plus my OCD started up again.
> 
> My doc wanted to try me on emsam so I was taking that for like 3 days because he gave me samples and then I found out my insurance was going to charge me $350/mo for the patches so I said no way.. Next thing is to re try Parnate which I am ok with since I did feel as though it was beneficial for me. I'll probably keep it at around 40 mg or so this time and then augment with Mirtaz for sleep since I also get some anxiety reduction from it as well.


Will your pdoc give you isocarboxazid (Marplan)? (or even heard of it lol )
It's an option I wouldn't mind trying myself to be fair.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> I only stayed at 60mg for 3 days because that's all I could bear. I went moodwise from 5-6/10 to 2/10 which was really galling and alarming. I don't know it was the increase that caused the crash in mood, it's just the most obvious culprit. I'm not done with Parnate, I'm just hoping and praying I went too high too fast. On askapatient.com I see a lot of folks doing great on lower doses (20-30mg) so that's the plan. Historically I cannot tolerate "therapeutic" dose for almost all meds I've tried, I've no idea why. I just hoped because it's such a radically different mechanism of action that Parnate would be different. Perhaps not.
> 
> I 100% agree with your theory of your habits, behaviors and thought patterns being so ingrained that you "lag" behind your brain's recovery from depression. When doing a bit better I found myself in bed at 8pm despite feeling OK and thinking "what am I doing?" The habit was so, so strong to just end the day as fast as possible.
> 
> I vividly remember the Nardil somnolence. Nothing I tried worked, it was such a bummer side effect. At the beginning it was a blessing since my OCD was rampant and it just zoned me out. Later though it was problematic like you say. Makes working in an office super difficult. I used to nap in a nearby gym, heh. Having an understanding boss is critical. If they see that overall you're getting your stuff done, a good boss will be cool with it.


Yeah, I know all about that going to bed early, but now without no reason other than being bored, really. I spent so much time sleeping as much as possible, I have had to re-discover what people really do at night. I remember the first time I went to the grocery store at like 8 pm, I was like "wow, people are actually still out, they're not sitting in the sofas waiting for bedtime". And of course, I used to be one of those people. Now I need to go back to being one. But now, of course, I struggle with my energy. I see a psychomotoric therapist nearly every week, she helps me understand the fatigue and learn how to live with it. But it's hard to accept the fact that if I feel good one day I still should rest. I can never seem to do that.

My workplace has been very understanding, beyond anything I had believed. But I have been called off sick (working a few hours a week most of the time) for a year and a half now, so now I am nothing but an extra expence to them. Well, that's not true, I work hard when I'm there, but I dont take on the same responsibilities as before, and I go "on top" as they call it, meaning they are fully staffed, and the hours I put in I am there as an extra person. We are always ridiculously busy, so there's plenty of work for me, but there's no budget for them to keep me "on top" like that indefinitely. That stresses me out a lot. I am a nurse, so when I'm at work I need to be there a hundred percent, there's no napping in an empty bed for an hour 

It sucks that you only got to try 60 mg for a few days. I was "lucky" enough to be hospitalized when I started Nardil, so I had close monitoring throughout all my struggles. With the thoughts that came into my head, and all the side effects I probably wouldn't have dared going through that at home by myself. I was there following a failed suicide attempt, and my suicidal thoughts were still strong. When the extra impulstivity with starting Nardil came, I was really in a bad state. Now, however, when I went from 60 to 75 mg, I got some of the impulses and weird thoughts, but as I don't really have a strong death wish at the moment I didn't feel like I was likely to lose control, so I felt safe enough.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Yeah, I know all about that going to bed early, but now without no reason other than being bored, really. I spent so much time sleeping as much as possible, I have had to re-discover what people really do at night. I remember the first time I went to the grocery store at like 8 pm, I was like "wow, people are actually still out, they're not sitting in the sofas waiting for bedtime". And of course, I used to be one of those people. Now I need to go back to being one. But now, of course, I struggle with my energy. I see a psychomotoric therapist nearly every week, she helps me understand the fatigue and learn how to live with it. But it's hard to accept the fact that if I feel good one day I still should rest. I can never seem to do that.
> 
> My workplace has been very understanding, beyond anything I had believed. But I have been called off sick (working a few hours a week most of the time) for a year and a half now, so now I am nothing but an extra expence to them. Well, that's not true, I work hard when I'm there, but I dont take on the same responsibilities as before, and I go "on top" as they call it, meaning they are fully staffed, and the hours I put in I am there as an extra person. We are always ridiculously busy, so there's plenty of work for me, but there's no budget for them to keep me "on top" like that indefinitely. That stresses me out a lot. I am a nurse, so when I'm at work I need to be there a hundred percent, there's no napping in an empty bed for an hour
> 
> It sucks that you only got to try 60 mg for a few days. I was "lucky" enough to be hospitalized when I started Nardil, so I had close monitoring throughout all my struggles. With the thoughts that came into my head, and all the side effects I probably wouldn't have dared going through that at home by myself. I was there following a failed suicide attempt, and my suicidal thoughts were still strong. When the extra impulstivity with starting Nardil came, I was really in a bad state. Now, however, when I went from 60 to 75 mg, I got some of the impulses and weird thoughts, but as I don't really have a strong death wish at the moment I didn't feel like I was likely to lose control, so I felt safe enough.


Lol right, the nightlife of "Normals" has been periodically astounding to me too, even though I used to be a Normal myself (20+ years ago). The psychomotoric thing sounds a little (to my layman's ears) like the finite number of "spoons" that Chronic Fatigue / Chronic Pain folks swear by. They have to keep strict track of how much energy they expend else they'll pay for it dearly the following days.

Man your workplace sounds amazing w.r.t. disability. You would very, very rarely find something like that in America. I can understand how that's stressful though, being "on top". As well as being a nurse, blimey. I'm just a coder - no-one is depending on me in a physical sense. Coding's plus is that I can sit down/lie down all day long, which is great when you are depressed but plays into the hands of chronic back pain since being stationary is the worst thing you can do for back health, contrary to common beliefs.

It's funny (in the most un-funny sense) that my pure OCD is about myself committing suicide if I get "too depressed" (whatever that means) but that I've never even made a plan. Tons of ideation but never actually done anything about it in 20 years. Makes absolutely zero sense but when the OCD is in effect, as it it every day to some level, the threat is as real as the chair that I am sitting on right now. Such a giant waste of energy and huge source of unnecessary suffering. Sigh.


----------



## WillComp

Today's been a crazy day. It's been 9 days since I dropped from 75 to 60. It's a relatively calm and relaxing day at work, but I'm experiencing a noticeable increase in anxiety. Even though it's just a slight increase, it's enough to make me get out of here 30 minutes early. That hasn't happened since I started Nardil in March. Quite depressing! I decided earlier in the day I wouldn't let it bother me, so I didn't dwell on it, until one of my coworkers stopped by for a chat. For the first time since March, my face got red and I blushed, and luckily the coworker just walked away. Is this a sign I need to go back up to 75 immediately? I was hoping to go down to 45 in December, just to get a relief from anorgasmia. Now I have no clue what to do.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* Ok so I was driving back from work today, about an hour drive, about half way through I felt Mr Narc start to kick in!
> I came prepared today with 1x200 mg Modafinil and dropped it (this was about 14:30 ish)
> 
> Man it kicked in about 15 mins before I got back to the depot and a swear I felt a bit fubared, was chatting so much sh1t it was crazy. Even popped into a sex shop here and got some poppers....only because I was thinking about when I used to do it back in the day while travelling to a rave, got myself a bottle of liquid gold and some Rave lol.
> 
> @*watertouch* .... where the fluck are you man, let us know you are ok!


Poppers take me back, I usually couldnt stop sniffing them and ended up throwing them away as I was like, ok one more sniff, then, alright one more etc etc.

Getting a bit worried about @watertouch !! Big A, please just give us a nod that everything is ok mate !


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> How long were you on nardil for mate? thing is, one of the early phases is a massive motivation not to sleep because it's wasting time, waking up hourly hoping its time to get up. I had massive sleep issues pre Nardil, even though I really did learn to love that phase of being up super early (i actually didn't sleep for 3 days and 2 nights because i just wanted to get sh1t done)....it passes, nardil has been a life saver for me sleep wise. I can now get into a bed and be gone 5-10 mins after getting in it. Pre nardil it used to take me 4-5hrs to fall asleep.
> 
> If it was working for you it's a shame the sleep thing has forced you off. Man I didn't stop Nardil for nothing lol, dunno if you read this thread from the start but Nardil got me very very sick first 2-3 months.


 @V1bzz Yes you have some incredible perseverance mate, I'm a little jealous of it I'll admit. I was on it for 3 months total and averaging about 3-4 hours of sleep a night, getting worse near the end.

The sleep issue was concerning for me but even more so was my increase in OCD symptoms (rituals, obsessive thought patterns and ruminations, skin picking got really bad, cyclical patterns before going to sleep making insomnia worse, diet obsessions). I had read a few anecdotes of people mentioning OCD getting worse on Nardil (and others say it got noticeably better) so I figured I'd give it a shot.

OCD is my primary reason for being on medication in the first place.. I also have major depression, general anxiety, social anxiety and body dysmorphia but all this **** is really exacerbated by my OCD when it's acting up.. I've really come a long ways with OCD so I don't wanna go back just for the sake of enjoying Nardil's other benefits.. It's unfortunate thought because Nardil was so f!cking good for my social anxiety haha I was so disinhibited and said whatever the hell I wanted, started a new relationship after my gf of 4 years split up with me (still in the new relationship though so that's good)..

But anyway, my Doc agreed to put me back on Parnate which was good for me initially but he thought I increased the dosage too much. So I'm currently 3 days on Parnate 30 mg and will likely titrate up to 50 mg over a month - month and a half and stick there.

My sleep meds got all weird on Nardil - I was on a combo of Remeron, Traz, Seroquel haha it was getting out of hand...

*Current Med combo:
Parnate 30 mg
Remeron 7.5
Seroquel 25 - 50 mg*

I actually got the stomach flu at the same time I quit Nardil cold turkey and it was f!cking awful but I finally got some sleep last night and I'm feeling a bit better. I took the emsam for like 3 days and felt like balls the whole time. I've been off Nardil almost a week now.

*I'm bummed I had to jump off the Nardil train with you guys @V1bzz @SFC01 @Tandorini @WillComp and everyone else on Nardy, it was a wonderful experience honestly. One thing I will say about it which I am super grateful for - it showed me how open and comfortable I can be with people when my social anxiety isn't present. I was so honest and forthcoming and would be able to sit and have genuine conversations with people without caring how I sounded or looked.. I would give presentations in front of a hundred people and be fully in tuned to the content without fear of looking/sounding some sort of way. I think I can still take this mindset with me even without Nardil - I've noticed that even when I lowered the dose and even now that I haven't been on it I'm still so much more comfortable in my own skin than I was before Nardil. I'm going to continue to make myself uncomfortable socially because Nardil showed me it's totally worth it.*


----------



## SFC01

cigpk said:


> *I'm bummed I had to jump off the Nardil train with you guys @V1bzz @SFC01 @Tandorini @WillComp and everyone else on Nardy, it was a wonderful experience honestly. One thing I will say about it which I am super grateful for - it showed me how open and comfortable I can be with people when my social anxiety isn't present. I was so honest and forthcoming and would be able to sit and have genuine conversations with people without caring how I sounded or looked.. I would give presentations in front of a hundred people and be fully in tuned to the content without fear of looking/sounding some sort of way. I think I can still take this mindset with me even without Nardil - I've noticed that even when I lowered the dose and even now that I haven't been on it I'm still so much more comfortable in my own skin than I was before Nardil. I'm going to continue to make myself uncomfortable socially because Nardil showed me it's totally worth it.*


Sorry you had to jump off the train mate but thats good news about taking that mindset with you, I feel the same for when or if I ever quit nardil. Good luck with parny and sleep combo !!


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> Lol right, the nightlife of "Normals" has been periodically astounding to me too, even though I used to be a Normal myself (20+ years ago). The psychomotoric thing sounds a little (to my layman's ears) like the finite number of "spoons" that Chronic Fatigue / Chronic Pain folks swear by. They have to keep strict track of how much energy they expend else they'll pay for it dearly the following days.
> 
> Man your workplace sounds amazing w.r.t. disability. You would very, very rarely find something like that in America. I can understand how that's stressful though, being "on top". As well as being a nurse, blimey. I'm just a coder - no-one is depending on me in a physical sense. Coding's plus is that I can sit down/lie down all day long, which is great when you are depressed but plays into the hands of chronic back pain since being stationary is the worst thing you can do for back health, contrary to common beliefs.
> 
> It's funny (in the most un-funny sense) that my pure OCD is about myself committing suicide if I get "too depressed" (whatever that means) but that I've never even made a plan. Tons of ideation but never actually done anything about it in 20 years. Makes absolutely zero sense but when the OCD is in effect, as it it every day to some level, the threat is as real as the chair that I am sitting on right now. Such a giant waste of energy and huge source of unnecessary suffering. Sigh.


Being in addition the the other staff is supposed to take the stress off of me, making me able to pick my own chores, doing what I like. What stresses me out is the thought that it can't go on forever, I need to get better, work more, doing all the stuff I should be doing at work, not just picking my "favourites" among the tasks.

I'm lucky to be living in Norway, I guess. I was called off sick for one full year, which is maximum. I got paid fully throughout the year. I chose to work a little to not get astranged from work, and also because I wanted to go back as soon as possible. When the year is up my salary went down to about 66 % of what I used to get. But the hours I put in at work, I get fully paid for. So I get 66 % in benefits, but I get more if I work. (They will cut some in benefits, but not nearly as much as I actually make an hour). So now I am actually earning more the more I work. But that also means that my workplace has to pay me more. And there's really not much room in the budget for hiring an extra nurse on some shifts. They do however find room for that, but they have told me that it will not be forever, it will probably have to end in February. But they are going to try to get some sort of money from the welfare system for me, to cover the costs of me working part-time for a while longer. They haven't solved that yet. But they really do fight to keep me there as an employee, and that feels good. But it stresses me out that I don't really know for how long things can last.

My medication, psychologist, psychomotoric and psychiatrist are all free too, after paying 250 USD through deductables in one year. In January it will be a new year, and I will have to pay 250 USD quite fast (as I have a lot of appointments), but after that everything is free of charge. Hospital stays are always free of charge, which is lucky, as I all together have spent maybe 4-5 months hospitalised from 2014 till now. So yeah, I am happy I don't have to concider the financial costs of the various treatments, having to struggle with that as well as being sick.

All that rumination is really what's feeding the depression, I've learned a lot about that through metacognitive therapy. That has helped me quite a lot. But when depressed, it feels like it's important ruminating and worrying about everything that has happened, and that is happening, and that could happen. I remember feeling totally "unresponsible" when trying not to worry about getting better. The therapist told me to take the night off, just be who I am, not thinking so much. And I was like "well, how the h* am I gonna get better if I turn my brain off?" She got a bit frustrated trying to convince me I guess, because my mind was so set on rumination, having done that for a long, long time before seeking help the first time.

I really hope the fatigue can get better. And maybe I'll switch to Parnate, I dunno. But what I do notice, is that after 6 months on Nardil, the lactic acid, muscle weakness and muscle tension is basically gone. My psychomotoric notices it too. Before Nardil, I didn't have many aches and pains. After starting Nardil, any muscle she touched I would flinch, as they were sore. I told her the other day that it feels different now. She felt the muscles all over my body again, and had to agree - I barely had any aches or pains. I mean - if the lactic acid was because my muscles were all tense and strained all the time, then maybe that passing will eventually do something about the fatigue as well? I guess it would take some time to get better from the fatigue after 6 months of being tense all over.


----------



## Tandorini

My psychologist has asked me a couple of times now what I would think about trying to quit Nardil, being without medication.

I get so frustrated. I see his point, kinda - he wants to see where I'm at, and get something "more" to work with. It's hard to give proper therapy to someone who is almost not depressed anymore. 

For two years I tried all kinds of medication, to no avail. I was hospitalised several times, and it all accumulated into a suicide attempt in February, just 9 months ago. After that they started me on Nardil, and it actually helped. I got better, and I have stayed out of the hospital ever since. Not had any emergency appointment with any doc or therapist, just the regular ones. Finally, something's working for him. I feel disrespected, almost. What the hell, does he really want me to go back to the place I was, where I just wanted to die, so that he can see the real me, and working with me? Doesn't he understand how ill I was? 

After having tried so many meds, the doctors told me that we might not find anything that would work very well on me. We agreed that a goal in itself must be to find something that made me well enough to be able to stay in therapy, and benefit from that. And I remember starting working with my new psychologist, and he was wondering about that, if I was well enough to start therapy. That maybe we should wait even longer, or me to get better. And now he suggests I get worse again?

I feel like a piece of clay that he wants to play with. But ffs, I don't excist only inside his office, I try going back to my normal life for the remainder of the time. I try working, being with friends, try to figure out this whole fatigue thing. 

He does not insist on my stopping Nardil. He backed away at once when I said that I thought it was a little too close to February to think of stopping the meds. But still, the mere thought of it. Why would he even suggest that? He probably doesn't get that there's not such thing as a "innocent question" regarding that.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Being in addition the the other staff is supposed to take the stress off of me, making me able to pick my own chores, doing what I like. What stresses me out is the thought that it can't go on forever, I need to get better, work more, doing all the stuff I should be doing at work, not just picking my "favourites" among the tasks.
> 
> I'm lucky to be living in Norway, I guess. I was called off sick for one full year, which is maximum. I got paid fully throughout the year. I chose to work a little to not get astranged from work, and also because I wanted to go back as soon as possible. When the year is up my salary went down to about 66 % of what I used to get. But the hours I put in at work, I get fully paid for. So I get 66 % in benefits, but I get more if I work. (They will cut some in benefits, but not nearly as much as I actually make an hour). So now I am actually earning more the more I work. But that also means that my workplace has to pay me more. And there's really not much room in the budget for hiring an extra nurse on some shifts. They do however find room for that, but they have told me that it will not be forever, it will probably have to end in February. But they are going to try to get some sort of money from the welfare system for me, to cover the costs of me working part-time for a while longer. They haven't solved that yet. But they really do fight to keep me there as an employee, and that feels good. But it stresses me out that I don't really know for how long things can last.
> 
> My medication, psychologist, psychomotoric and psychiatrist are all free too, after paying 250 USD through deductables in one year. In January it will be a new year, and I will have to pay 250 USD quite fast (as I have a lot of appointments), but after that everything is free of charge. Hospital stays are always free of charge, which is lucky, as I all together have spent maybe 4-5 months hospitalised from 2014 till now. So yeah, I am happy I don't have to concider the financial costs of the various treatments, having to struggle with that as well as being sick.
> 
> All that rumination is really what's feeding the depression, I've learned a lot about that through metacognitive therapy. That has helped me quite a lot. But when depressed, it feels like it's important ruminating and worrying about everything that has happened, and that is happening, and that could happen. I remember feeling totally "unresponsible" when trying not to worry about getting better. The therapist told me to take the night off, just be who I am, not thinking so much. And I was like "well, how the h* am I gonna get better if I turn my brain off?" She got a bit frustrated trying to convince me I guess, because my mind was so set on rumination, having done that for a long, long time before seeking help the first time.
> 
> I really hope the fatigue can get better. And maybe I'll switch to Parnate, I dunno. But what I do notice, is that after 6 months on Nardil, the lactic acid, muscle weakness and muscle tension is basically gone. My psychomotoric notices it too. Before Nardil, I didn't have many aches and pains. After starting Nardil, any muscle she touched I would flinch, as they were sore. I told her the other day that it feels different now. She felt the muscles all over my body again, and had to agree - I barely had any aches or pains. I mean - if the lactic acid was because my muscles were all tense and strained all the time, then maybe that passing will eventually do something about the fatigue as well? I guess it would take some time to get better from the fatigue after 6 months of being tense all over.


All I can say is that they must really value you as an employee and and as someone to have around and that that is a great plus for you. But I understand your anxiety at this period running out. I feel that way about my Vyvanse running out: "what then?". Let's just say that if you were in the US, you'd be a lot worse off. Which is really sad for the "leading" (or once "leading") nation in the World.

When I'm suffering e.g. when *feeling* really depressed (that black, suffocating heaviness in your gut/chest), I find it impossible not to ruminate. It's like asking someone who's in excruciating, constant pain to ignore it. How the **** do you do that after the 2nd week of it? It's not humanly possible. If I'm not feeling so bad, I'm pretty good at "monitoring" my rumination. I just ask myself "does this help me?" and the answer, for me, is always "no". Same for when I feel slighted or bitter about something - it simply isn't in my best interests to remain that way 1 second longer.

The fatigue can get better. Our bodies are complex, strangely-connected things. And Nardil is in/famous for the longevity of its side/-effects. My seemingly-intractable insomnia on Parnate vanished overnight last week. Now I'm getting 8+ hours (partly because I'm so depressed and I'm going to bed at 7pm). No idea why it switched around like that. The lactic acid could totally have been due to you being tense all the time. I remember the aches and pains I used to have when my OCD was unchecked. I was a physical wreck.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> My psychologist has asked me a couple of times now what I would think about trying to quit Nardil, being without medication.
> 
> I get so frustrated. I see his point, kinda - he wants to see where I'm at, and get something "more" to work with. It's hard to give proper therapy to someone who is almost not depressed anymore.
> 
> For two years I tried all kinds of medication, to no avail. I was hospitalised several times, and it all accumulated into a suicide attempt in February, just 9 months ago. After that they started me on Nardil, and it actually helped. I got better, and I have stayed out of the hospital ever since. Not had any emergency appointment with any doc or therapist, just the regular ones. Finally, something's working for him. I feel disrespected, almost. What the hell, does he really want me to go back to the place I was, where I just wanted to die, so that he can see the real me, and working with me? Doesn't he understand how ill I was?
> 
> After having tried so many meds, the doctors told me that we might not find anything that would work very well on me. We agreed that a goal in itself must be to find something that made me well enough to be able to stay in therapy, and benefit from that. And I remember starting working with my new psychologist, and he was wondering about that, if I was well enough to start therapy. That maybe we should wait even longer, or me to get better. And now he suggests I get worse again?
> 
> I feel like a piece of clay that he wants to play with. But ffs, I don't excist only inside his office, I try going back to my normal life for the remainder of the time. I try working, being with friends, try to figure out this whole fatigue thing.
> 
> He does not insist on my stopping Nardil. He backed away at once when I said that I thought it was a little too close to February to think of stopping the meds. But still, the mere thought of it. Why would he even suggest that? He probably doesn't get that there's not such thing as a "innocent question" regarding that.


From the outside I do not understand his thinking. You don't **** around with actual suicide attempts. I'm sorry he's being so weird/insensitive, I don't get it. If I were him I'd be researching augmentation strategies, reading psychotropical.info and generally looking to use Nardil as a base from which to build.

Try not to be too offended or upset by it. We don't know his motivation for this line of thinking yet. That said, I find it weird bordering on negligent.


----------



## Tandorini

sming said:


> From the outside I do not understand his thinking. You don't **** around with actual suicide attempts. I'm sorry he's being so weird/insensitive, I don't get it. If I were him I'd be researching augmentation strategies, reading psychotropical.info and generally looking to use Nardil as a base from which to build.
> 
> Try not to be too offended or upset by it. We don't know his motivation for this line of thinking yet. That said, I find it weird bordering on negligent.


Well, he's a psychologist, he can't do anything about my meds. That's the psychiatrist's job. I find that psychologists often want people off meds, but I am thinking that should be those with mild or moderate depression, systems that may me manageable with therapy only. But I've tried being in therapy (not with him though) without meds, and it didn't work. I was so depressed that my mind was unavailable to therapy. The therapy sessions would be "wasted" on suicide evaluations, admittance to the ward, or just supportive conversation.

This guy hasn't seen me at my worst, but he has full access to my file. Besides, my old psychologist still works at the clinic, and he could ask her, what it's like having an unmedicated Tandorini in therapy.

Maybe he thinks that I should be all better by now, that if I quit Nardil I should have at least a few good months where we can do good work together.

He knows that I want to switch to Parnate. He said that there is no point in doing therapy while other changes are being done at the same time. So that if I switch we will have a break for a while. Then again, I know that I can get quite unstable when changing meds. Who's gonna be responsible for the followup? Do I have to visit the psychiatrist every week for a check-up? Nah, that session with the psychologist did me nothing good yesterday.


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> @V1bzz Yes you have some incredible perseverance mate, I'm a little jealous of it I'll admit. I was on it for 3 months total and averaging about 3-4 hours of sleep a night, getting worse near the end.
> 
> The sleep issue was concerning for me but even more so was my increase in OCD symptoms (rituals, obsessive thought patterns and ruminations, skin picking got really bad, cyclical patterns before going to sleep making insomnia worse, diet obsessions). I had read a few anecdotes of people mentioning OCD getting worse on Nardil (and others say it got noticeably better) so I figured I'd give it a shot.
> 
> OCD is my primary reason for being on medication in the first place.. I also have major depression, general anxiety, social anxiety and body dysmorphia but all this **** is really exacerbated by my OCD when it's acting up.. I've really come a long ways with OCD so I don't wanna go back just for the sake of enjoying Nardil's other benefits.. It's unfortunate thought because Nardil was so f!cking good for my social anxiety haha I was so disinhibited and said whatever the hell I wanted, started a new relationship after my gf of 4 years split up with me (still in the new relationship though so that's good)..
> 
> But anyway, my Doc agreed to put me back on Parnate which was good for me initially but he thought I increased the dosage too much. So I'm currently 3 days on Parnate 30 mg and will likely titrate up to 50 mg over a month - month and a half and stick there.
> 
> My sleep meds got all weird on Nardil - I was on a combo of Remeron, Traz, Seroquel haha it was getting out of hand...
> 
> *Current Med combo:
> Parnate 30 mg
> Remeron 7.5
> Seroquel 25 - 50 mg*
> 
> I actually got the stomach flu at the same time I quit Nardil cold turkey and it was f!cking awful but I finally got some sleep last night and I'm feeling a bit better. I took the emsam for like 3 days and felt like balls the whole time. I've been off Nardil almost a week now.
> 
> *I'm bummed I had to jump off the Nardil train with you guys @V1bzz @SFC01 @Tandorini @WillComp and everyone else on Nardy, it was a wonderful experience honestly. One thing I will say about it which I am super grateful for - it showed me how open and comfortable I can be with people when my social anxiety isn't present. I was so honest and forthcoming and would be able to sit and have genuine conversations with people without caring how I sounded or looked.. I would give presentations in front of a hundred people and be fully in tuned to the content without fear of looking/sounding some sort of way. I think I can still take this mindset with me even without Nardil - I've noticed that even when I lowered the dose and even now that I haven't been on it I'm still so much more comfortable in my own skin than I was before Nardil. I'm going to continue to make myself uncomfortable socially because Nardil showed me it's totally worth it.*


Yes good luck with the new/old combo

All my tics came back off nardil, still have them now but hopefully they will die off again. ie - spelling words in my head when i hear it on tv and like pulling my skin down from cheek bones to jaw, hard to explain what i mean lol.... i used to have not so bad playing xbox or summin, like COD live, before every match having to do the ritualistic pulling of the face skin, then quickly before i respawned or whatever, totally forgot about them until i did the withdraw just recently.

I do wonder if there i anything in this world that will stop me shaking my damn legs, especially the right one, I 
just constantly jiggle them...yeah im oe of them feckers in the summer sitting on a bench having a beer and everyones beers wobbling and the whole table cos i got the ole legs going. it's a constant thing. pain in the flucking @rse.

one thing about nardil, it is defo working better this time around for me than it has the 4 times it failed before, my zero flucks moments have increased dramatically and i have found myself lately just telling people and customers weird sh1t i used to get up to.

I made a delivery today to a petrol station and they had flyers for the wurzels, seeing that i instantly went into telling the guy working there how when i worked at butlins they were performing but i didn't know who they were and was just booing them ad sh1t getting the evils of everyone in the room and even comments from the band itself lol.

Also around that time I remember Erik Bristow (darts legend) doing a thing at butlins, he was throwing darts doing something for the crowd and i walked straight through, with a fake wig on i had stolen from a mannequin with my @rse hanging out.....damn i miss the days of not giving a fluck! :grin2:>

Actually told my section manager with out a thought that i couldn't work on the 28th cos i was seeing a psychiatrist!! wtf man.....I never told anyone anything about my illnesses until maybe a year and a half ago...I still don't tell anyone now. I've always just dealt with everything on my own.
My point is usually i would have said oh i can't work the 28th because of (make lie up here, maybe about having dentist appt or summin) and done it that way. just told him it was something i had to do every now and then since I served in afghan. a Lie still but for me to say it was a pdoc i think was a pretty big step and zero flucks moment, I didn't give a fluck what he thought and have generally been feeling more and more of that lately. it's good 

oh @WillComp, dude since i restarted nardil i am just so damn horny all the time man, have no problems with anorgasmia either. Not really getting any noticeable side effects yet.

Need the hornyness to just calm down a tad now, i feel like i'm getting close to saying something ridiculously forward to one of the ladies on my route that flirt with me.

There was one today who when i arrived said 'so who would you like me to be today' took me back a bit and thought dang i got a nutter here! then she started going on about should she be marilyn monroe, and do the ole dress thing, at that point i was close to saying fluck it, go and put a sexy corset or summin on for me....so glad i didn't lol. Mr libido just needs to calm te fluk down a bit i think now!!


----------



## WillComp

You're lucky AF, @V1bzz. What I would do to be in your shoes. Gotta say I'm pretty jealous but stoked you got it going this time. What dose are you at now?

I'm still at 60 and plan to try out the old jaguar again once I get back from vacation with the fam. That'll be first wk of December. Stay tuned!

Seriously though, I doubt the old engine will ever start up again. Sad considering I used to get relief on my lunch break every day in 5 minutes before I got up to 60mg. Now I have no interest at all. If that ever changes and I can actually get it done, I'll be the happiest man on Earth.

I'mstill holding onto hope.. waiting another wk on 60.. or dropping to 45 in Dec may very well do the trick. And there's also the option of supplements or poppers. I've never tried that stuff, but hey I need my libido back and that extra sensitivity to finally finish after all these months.

So far 60 is what it was like before: slightly less effective than 75 most days but inconsistent. I have moments where I can feel that old crippling anxiety blood running through my veins, reminding me how much hell I went through virtually every day of my life before starting Nardil. By the way it's 2:18.. I was wide awake when I began this post, now I'm nodding off. So if there's tons of mistakes, it's because I didn't bother to edit. In 3 min I'll be out. I'll be back on 5he boards after vacay.. have a good week all!


----------



## V1bzz

hey all thought i would check in, i just needed to let my mind get a bit more back to normal again. @WillComp i'm at 45mg mate and staying here.

Had an appointment today with an NHS Pdoc, man he was great, I felt at ease with him and he knows his sh1t too. I told him I didn't want parnate now and want to just stay at 45 mg Nardil as I didn't know how much it was helping me until the new doc said for me to withdraw from it.

He wants me to stay on nardil recognising how much it is helping me but also understanding that there is work to be done yet to get me where I need to be.

We were discussing options today and he was saying how he prefers the older medications, He has given me something I had never heard of before until today.....Trifluoperazine (liquid) wants me to do 3x 1mg a day...i said if i'm having one of my very very bad moments can i just do the whole 3mg in one go and he said yes, sure!

It's drug class is - Phenothiazines (whatever the fluck that is lol) - it's more common name is Stelazine.

Said to see how that goes for me and I will see him again in 3 weeks.

Man what a god damned mother flucking relief to FINALLY have someone who knows WTF they are on about.....and he just loves the old skool drugs too =))))

Any of you guys heard it, tried it?


----------



## V1bzz

Dang it tastes like cough medicine lol


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Man what a god damned mother flucking relief to FINALLY have someone who knows WTF they are on about.....and he just loves the old skool drugs too =))))
> 
> Any of you guys heard it, tried it?


Must be old skool if I havent heard of the old Triffy !! hope it goes well for you mate anyway - gonna have to wiki the triffy now !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Must be old skool if I havent heard of the old Triffy !! hope it goes well for you mate anyway - gonna have to wiki the triffy now !!


I took a 5mg tea spoon of it which is 1mg of the triffy before i went to the hospital to see my dad and i was super chillax there, dad was in a seat so i was pretty much chillaxing half lying on the bed lol.....will take another 2 tea spoons an hour before bed just to see how it makes me feel, 1mg made my eyes feel a bit heavy. side effects only usually happen at high dosage, i'm on the low dosage which helps anxiety/stress. don't fancy joint stiffness and tremors, i'm pretty much side effect free since starting nardil this 4th time, seems to work a bit better each time i start again and I lose a side effect, weird!

Will update more as i have more moments it is needed.

He also said to me about taking seroquel with the nardil but i explained about that horrible conscious sleep paralysis, I still need something to lift my mood.

Good thing about the new stuff is it doesn't effect diet or weight gain and is non addictive and fast acting, think it took about 45- an hour.

Let me know if you find out anything interesting. I need to google now and see if I take it regular 3 times a day if it will work as an anti depressant once it gets into my system or if its better to just take when needed.

hope everyone else is going good!!

anyone seem @watertouch ? hopefully he's not posting lately because he's feeling great. Still would be good to know something though.


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## AtlantaPhobic

Says his last activity is 09-16-2017 06:39 PM. Hope he comes back as he is a great help and resource.


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## V1bzz

*Stelazine* tablets and syrup contain the active ingredient trifluoperazine, which is a type of medicine called a phenothiazine antipsychotic. (Trifluoperazine is also available without a brand name, ie as the generic medicine.) Trifluoperazine has two quite different uses. In higher doses it is used in the treatment of psychiatric illnesses. In lower doses it is used in the management of nausea and vomiting.

When used in psychiatric illness, trifluoperazine is sometimes described as a neuroleptic or a 'major tranquilliser', though this last term is fairly misleading, as this type of medicine is not just a tranquilliser, and any tranquilising effect is not as important as its main mechanism of action in psychiatric illness.

*Trifluoperazine works by blocking dopamine receptors in the brain. Dopamine is a natural compound called a neurotransmitter, and is involved in transmitting messages between brain cells. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter known to be involved in regulating mood and behaviour, amongst other things.*

Psychotic illness, and particularly schizophrenia, is thought to be caused by overactivity of dopamine in the brain. Trifluoperazine blocks the receptors that dopamine acts on, and this prevents the overactivity of dopamine in the brain. This helps to control psychotic illness.

*Trifluoperazine is used used in the long-term management of psychotic conditions such as schizophrenia. It is also used in the short-term to manage severe anxiety and severely agitated or dangerous behaviour.*

Trifluoperazine also affects dopamine receptors in an area of the brain that controls nausea and vomiting. Vomiting is controlled by an area of the brain called the vomiting centre. The vomiting centre is responsible for causing feelings of sickness (nausea) and for the vomiting reflex. It is activated when it receives nerve messages from another area of the brain called the chemoreceptor trigger zone (CTZ) and when it receives nerve messages from the gut.

Trifluoperazine controls nausea and vomiting by blocking dopamine receptors found in the CTZ. This stops the CTZ from sending the messages to the vomiting centre that would otherwise cause nausea and vomiting.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/depression/a7565/stelazine-trifluoperazine/


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> called the vomiting centre.


Sounds like my old school youth club on Friday nights after a few cans of special brew through straws !

Thats a pretty hard core med you got there mate, would imagine you wouldnt be anywhere the kind of dose used for psychotic illness ?

What I read so far for anxiety and lower doses, it seems quite positive.


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## Tandorini

Tried searching for Trifluoperazine, it is not sold in Norway. But interestingly enough I ended up at a site with statistics on how many people got prescriptions on each drug per year. 

For Nardil, 85 Norwegian people got it prescribed in 2016. (Total population of Norway is about 5 million people.) The numbers has been quite stabile over the past five years, which the statistics cover. Might be bad luck about Parnate though - Between 6 and 7 people have had it prescribed a year, exept for in 2016, where less than 5 had it prescribed. Needless to point out that I will not have a chance in hell to have access to a Norwegian pdoc with actual experience prescribing it.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Tried searching for Trifluoperazine, it is not sold in Norway. But interestingly enough I ended up at a site with statistics on how many people got prescriptions on each drug per year.
> 
> For Nardil, 85 Norwegian people got it prescribed in 2016. (Total population of Norway is about 5 million people.) The numbers has been quite stabile over the past five years, which the statistics cover. Might be bad luck about Parnate though - Between 6 and 7 people have had it prescribed a year, exept for in 2016, where less than 5 had it prescribed. Needless to point out that I will not have a chance in hell to have access to a Norwegian pdoc with actual experience prescribing it.


Can you see somehow a list of what pdocs are at the place you go? I think you need to try and find yourself an older pdoc who knows about the older meds. For once I seem to have fell on my feet, about time though 

@SFC01 1mg/5ml syrup 3 times a day.....i found it silly having to use a teaspoon so just take an approximate swig. It really does taste like cough medicine.
OK it's effects on me were pretty instant, I don't feel anything other than maybe heavy eyes sometimes but since i started it i have had zero stress attacks, also it does help with my anxiety issues. I still feel a bit paranoid and sometimes, had it tonight just a touch for a brief period while at the depot.

So far so good. It defo compliments Nardil but its hard to say at the moment how. I have not touched the valium though since taking it because i really have not felt any massive blow outs coming on.

What i'm wondering is if it has anti-depressant properties if taken as if i were taking a tablet 3 times a day after a few weeks?
So far that's the only thing i'm lacking, that mood lift, I still feel just above flat.

@WillComp mr no libido is slowly kicking in now as the nardil beds itself into my system, I think its been about 3 weeks since i started again. 
Haven't really thought about it (coming off it made me realise how much this drug has improved my life) but maybe Nardil will kick in and work fully this time. Sure hope so, I'm really kinda back at the start of the nardil journey again but without the main side effects I used to have...well apart from the weird ones like the loss of libido and weird poo, am semi constipated.

Also I have been doing that pink himalayan salt water drink since you shared that video. It gave me bad tunny for a few days and i was needing to poo maybe 3 times just in the morning but now that has settled.
It's weird because at first I was like yuk but now my body kinda craves all those minerals each day now.

I put about just maybe a quarter of a pint in a pint glass of water and squash and maybe half a pint n the bottle of juice i take to work.

I really think all of us here should be doing it, all those minerals. @SFC01 I got mine from the salt section at tesco.....so its easy to get folks and easy to do, just grind it into water and it will mineralise the water over 24hrs. you know when you have used enough if there is like a pink layer at the bottom of the jug or whatever you would use. if no pink at bottom then you add more.


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## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Can you see somehow a list of what pdocs are at the place you go? I think you need to try and find yourself an older pdoc who knows about the older meds. For once I seem to have fell on my feet, about time though
> 
> @*SFC01* 1mg/5ml syrup 3 times a day.....i found it silly having to use a teaspoon so just take an approximate swig. It really does taste like cough medicine.
> OK it's effects on me were pretty instant, I don't feel anything other than maybe heavy eyes sometimes but since i started it i have had zero stress attacks, also it does help with my anxiety issues. I still feel a bit paranoid and sometimes, had it tonight just a touch for a brief period while at the depot.
> 
> So far so good. It defo compliments Nardil but its hard to say at the moment how. I have not touched the valium though since taking it because i really have not felt any massive blow outs coming on.
> 
> What i'm wondering is if it has anti-depressant properties if taken as if i were taking a tablet 3 times a day after a few weeks?
> So far that's the only thing i'm lacking, that mood lift, I still feel just above flat.
> 
> @*WillComp* mr no libido is slowly kicking in now as the nardil beds itself into my system, I think its been about 3 weeks since i started again.
> Haven't really thought about it (coming off it made me realise how much this drug has improved my life) but maybe Nardil will kick in and work fully this time. Sure hope so, I'm really kinda back at the start of the nardil journey again but without the main side effects I used to have...well apart from the weird ones like the loss of libido and weird poo, am semi constipated.
> 
> Also I have been doing that pink himalayan salt water drink since you shared that video. It gave me bad tunny for a few days and i was needing to poo maybe 3 times just in the morning but now that has settled.
> It's weird because at first I was like yuk but now my body kinda craves all those minerals each day now.
> 
> I put about just maybe a quarter of a pint in a pint glass of water and squash and maybe half a pint n the bottle of juice i take to work.
> 
> I really think all of us here should be doing it, all those minerals. @*SFC01* I got mine from the salt section at tesco.....so its easy to get folks and easy to do, just grind it into water and it will mineralise the water over 24hrs. you know when you have used enough if there is like a pink layer at the bottom of the jug or whatever you would use. if no pink at bottom then you add more.


Hey @V1bzz, I've been drinking that Himalayan salt water every day too.. for about 3 weeks now. One pitcher in my fridge is filled with the cloudy salt water (2 tablespoons of pink salt dissolved in purified water) and I pour just enough in an empty glass to fill in the bottom, then fill the glass with cold water. I agree, the taste was nasty at first but I've gotten used to it now. I drink it all the time and I don't get thirsty and dehydrated any more, even waking up on the middle of the night, nolonger thirsty.

LOL @ "mr no libido".. defo know mr nl after 7 months with this guy! ops Crazy to think I'd rather do just about anything else these days. Im entirely turned off by the fact I've wasted more than a handful of nights (no pun intended) almost every week since May. Before increasin to 60, nothing else mattered. Finishing was the easiest and greatest thing on Earth. It's what made life worthwhile. Now after all these months it's still impossible. I hope this doesn't mess me up for life. Oh well, letting go of my libido is what I chose. I decided anxiety and pain weren't better friends, so I let it go.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Can you see somehow a list of what pdocs are at the place you go? I think you need to try and find yourself an older pdoc who knows about the older meds. For once I seem to have fell on my feet, about time though


I don't think there is such a list available to patient. This is the public health system, and you just get assigned a pdoc. If you really don't get along with that one you can request a transfer, I did that once. But the thing is, this guy is really nice and listens to me. And he has plenty of people to ask for advice, which I know he does, too. If I went to see some older pdoc he might not ask for advice from others, just relying on what he knows from before, and from his own experience. With this young guy, who seems quite enthusiastic and interested in pharmacology, I get access to several doctors, in a way.

Besides, as I said, Parnate is hardly ever prescribed in Norway. With less than 5 prescriptions in 2016 I have no way of finding a pdoc with experience with it.

I am happy with all the people I see now - the pdoc, the psychiatrist, the pscyhomotoric and my GP. Won't change a winning team! Gonna see him on Monday, will hear what he has to say then. If he says no, then fine, I'll stick with Nardil. I trust them to make the right descisions for me.


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## sming

Tandorini said:


> Well, he's a psychologist, he can't do anything about my meds. That's the psychiatrist's job. I find that psychologists often want people off meds, but I am thinking that should be those with mild or moderate depression, systems that may me manageable with therapy only. But I've tried being in therapy (not with him though) without meds, and it didn't work. I was so depressed that my mind was unavailable to therapy. The therapy sessions would be "wasted" on suicide evaluations, admittance to the ward, or just supportive conversation.
> 
> This guy hasn't seen me at my worst, but he has full access to my file. Besides, my old psychologist still works at the clinic, and he could ask her, what it's like having an unmedicated Tandorini in therapy.
> 
> Maybe he thinks that I should be all better by now, that if I quit Nardil I should have at least a few good months where we can do good work together.
> 
> He knows that I want to switch to Parnate. He said that there is no point in doing therapy while other changes are being done at the same time. So that if I switch we will have a break for a while. Then again, I know that I can get quite unstable when changing meds. Who's gonna be responsible for the followup? Do I have to visit the psychiatrist every week for a check-up? Nah, that session with the psychologist did me nothing good yesterday.


Sorry for the delayed response, I have been very low recently coming off of Parnate. Today's the first day for a while I've been able to breathe, as it were.

Ah I see, I didn't register this was your talk doc. Yes, talk docs often think their particular brand of talk therapy is all that's needed. If only that were true. For me, talk therapy falls down flat in the face of endogenous severe emotional issues. How do you reconstruct/remodel/attack/pacify/befriend horrific emotions that have no detectable associated cognitions?

It's unfortunate but correct about the "change only one thing at once". I'm currently doing TMS and my emergency switch from Parnate to Nardil has ****ed that up. Whatever results I get by the end of TMS will be completely invalidated by the med switch. You're not even supposed to change dose. I should be thankful that the PDoc in charge of TMS let me continue.


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## V1bzz

x3 nardil in the morning + my triffy 3 times a day and so far tonight x2 cans of thatchers is a sweet spot combo, feel total relaxation and coziness in my body, feels nice.
I purchased myself some DDJ-RB's a couple of pay days ago, only managed about 2-3hrs mixing on them up until this week...where i have been giving it about an hour or so, really enjoying it so will be taking a little break from producing to hone in my dj skills 

Music has been a total life saver for me, especially when i Had that really bad hell depression, that's when i started producing my own house music, saved my life, I sh1t you not. I'd be dead now I think!


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> will be taking a little break from producing to hone in my dj skills


Mate, you still available for my daughters 10th birthday? Bring your Little Mix remixes with you 

Anyways, you sound quite a bit better there? hope it carries on.

Hope your old man is on the road to recovery too.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Mate, you still available for my daughters 10th birthday? Bring your Little Mix remixes with you
> 
> Anyways, you sound quite a bit better there? hope it carries on.
> 
> Hope your old man is on the road to recovery too.


Ha, not sure she would appreciate my little mix tech house remixes lol. yeah i'm much improved. this triffy helps me a great deal. im going to ring the pdoc secretary and see if i can take half a 25mg serry with it a day just for the mood lift, can't see that low dose being a problem, what you think?

thanks for asking about my dad, he seemed to give off a really positive vibe to me when i went to see him at hospital, he was radiating a great energy and it enhanced my mood and comfortability while visiting (hate hospitals).
He has been given a lot of meds to take which i need to google, i think one may be a beta blocker. He says he feels light headed and sick at the moment, diarrhea etc, hoping that will pass for him soon.

Would appreciate some info if you guys know anything about these drugs @SFC01 @Gillman fan @watertouch @Tandorini

Ramipril 2.5mg
Bisoprolol fumarate 2.5mg
Clopidogrel 75mg


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## V1bzz

Really thinking strongly about adding 12.5mg serry to my combo, triffy doesn't seem to react badly with anything that I can find.
I'm still really needing that boost to get me away from anhedonia type feelings, i find nardil and triffy a good combo, actually really great combo for anxiety and stress etc but just need that bloody little boost to make me enjoy things a bit more than I am.

I just need a little kick up the bum to make me start doing things in a social environment, like going to the gym, going bowling, just doing something social you know, living life a bit more.

I don't think the triffy is going to have antidepressant qualities after continued use.

I'm thinking my x3 nardil in the morning and swig of triffy then only use the triffy again when I feel a major blow out coming on. Then take 12.5mg serry at night.

What do you guys think?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Really thinking strongly about adding 12.5mg serry to my combo, triffy doesn't seem to react badly with anything that I can find.
> I'm still really needing that boost to get me away from anhedonia type feelings, i find nardil and triffy a good combo, actually really great combo for anxiety and stress etc but just need that bloody little boost to make me enjoy things a bit more than I am.
> 
> I just need a little kick up the bum to make me start doing things in a social environment, like going to the gym, going bowling, just doing something social you know, living life a bit more.
> 
> I don't think the triffy is going to have antidepressant qualities after continued use.
> 
> I'm thinking my x3 nardil in the morning and swig of triffy then only use the triffy again when I feel a major blow out coming on. Then take 12.5mg serry at night.
> 
> What do you guys think?


Could try it mate, thats a small dose of serry so may help for a while for sleep but doubt it will add much to your mood. I used varying amounts of serry while on nardil 50 - 200 (at times) but mainly 50-75 mills.

It never caused anhedonia in me, but whether it increased it I`m not sure but give it a go.

I would advise ammy and norty for anhedonia but if you get any from you pdoc then you could also have a look at sulbutiamine and acetyl l carnitine which can both can bought easy and cheaply enough - they may help with fatigue and anhedonia. I've used them both and I particularly like sulby


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Could try it mate, thats a small dose of serry so may help for a while for sleep but doubt it will add much to your mood. I used varying amounts of serry while on nardil 50 - 200 (at times) but mainly 50-75 mills.
> 
> It never caused anhedonia in me, but whether it increased it I`m not sure but give it a go.
> 
> I would advise ammy and norty for anhedonia but if you get any from you pdoc then you could also have a look at sulbutiamine and acetyl l carnitine which can both can bought easy and cheaply enough - they may help with fatigue and anhedonia. I've used them both and I particularly like sulby


Cheers mate, I will speak to him again about some of these meds, for once i have somebody that actually listens to what im saying and thinks about it and if it could work for me etc.

I honestly think the pink salt is helping with the anxiety too, as @WillComp said my body feels totally hydrated now and my organs feel like they are functioning better.
It's weird because after i load my wagon in the morning i always stop for a can of coke and chocolate bar to replace the lost energy ready to do my route....I always used to crave more choc and coke all day though but now it's kinda like i drink my mineralised water and instantly think fluck the coke and chocolate....it's like it gives you exactly what your body is craving, a lot of the times now if i have mixed it right and i have a can of coke and my bottle of juice with the piffy :grin2: in it i end up leaving the coke and throwing it away.

it's really refreshing, really can't recommend it enough, i think it has also helped with all my pains too :smile2:

you can order big bags of the stuff that will last ages online for dirt cheap, that's what i will get next pay. The one from tesco is excellent quality though, big rocks of the stuff and the bottle has the grinder in the lid and do it that that. I literally have it constantly, in my water i have always by my bed and through out the day at work.
oh and i've lost weight on it too, my pot belly is pretty non existant, i'm worrying i'm getting too skinny again now lol.

Was 12stone 9 last time i weighed myself, in september i was 14stone 2......huuuuuuge difference :O


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## V1bzz

@WillComp - meant to ask mate if the pink himalayan salt is helping with your mad hypotension moments where you hit the deck? should do i think, I think i wobble less too when walking now lol. really hated doing that giving parcels to people, walking like i'm wasted lol
@SFC01 was just reading a thread on here about nardil serry combo at 12.5 and it seems to work well together. I don't think i an risk higher dose cos of that horrible sleep paralysis thing, that was nasty and i'm not up for opening the door for nasty presences into my life.


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* was just reading a thread on here about nardil serry combo at 12.5 and it seems to work well together. I don't think i an risk higher dose cos of that horrible sleep paralysis thing, that was nasty and i'm not up for opening the door for nasty presences into my life.


Yeah, I kind of like serry actually, gets a bad rep, maybe because docs do seem to dish out to treat everything, but it worked well enough for me for sleep and maybe some help with mood at times too. You will get used to 12.5mg after a while as tolerance to its sleep properties does build, so I reckon after a few weeks, and it works ok for you, then you should be able to get up 25mg whilst avoiding the sleep paralysis if you needed to.

When you start getting above 25/50, you start getting the munchies with it!!

You getting anymore moddy ? dont know what to to think of that as sometimes it does what its supposed but other times it seems to actually give me narcolepsy !! and then if I take it for a week or two, when I stop, I`m still left with a touch of narcolepsy for a couple of weeks - ****ing plays havoc with my mindful meditation.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah, I kind of like serry actually, gets a bad rep, maybe because docs do seem to dish out to treat everything, but it worked well enough for me for sleep and maybe some help with mood at times too. You will get used to 12.5mg after a while as tolerance to its sleep properties does build, so I reckon after a few weeks, and it works ok for you, then you should be able to get up 25mg whilst avoiding the sleep paralysis if you needed to.
> 
> When you start getting above 25/50, you start getting the munchies with it!!
> 
> You getting anymore moddy ? dont know what to to think of that as sometimes it does what its supposed but other times it seems to actually give me narcolepsy !! and then if I take it for a week or two, when I stop, I`m still left with a touch of narcolepsy for a couple of weeks - ****ing plays havoc with my mindful meditation.


I was silly earlier and took 12.5 serry and it ko's my *** for about 4hrs, i really didn't think it would have that effect at that low dose. Lesson learnt!!

The moddy is still in my drawer, I am kinda the same as you, it's effects on me are weird, sometimes great but then other times makes me feel real gross inside.

I will look forward to the sleep thing of serry going, I already sleep fine without it 

Triffy seems to be mildly motivational for me, sometimes, not always, like it will give me a little kick to go do something i've been putting off...for example i felt too lazy to wash the van, it was filthy but just couldn't be flucked. sippy the about 5pm and went out and washed it in the dark!
@watertouch wtf is going on with you dude!!


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> @*WillComp* - meant to ask mate if the pink himalayan salt is helping with your mad hypotension moments where you hit the deck? should do i think, I think i wobble less too when walking now lol. really hated doing that giving parcels to people, walking like i'm wasted lol
> QUOTE]
> 
> Hey man, thanks for asking.. I haven't had 1 hypotension moment since I started drinking pink Himalayan salt, and it's been about 3 weeks. At the same time, 3 weeks ago, I dropped from 75 to 60, and thought maybe that was the reason it stopped. Now that you say it, I believe it's from the pink Himalayan salt. I'm actually drinking it now. Good stuff!
> 
> :[email protected] walking like I'm wasted when giving parcels to people. I know exactly what that's like. I hated it too.. always feeling like people were staring at me thinking I was wasted. Feels good to finally walk straight.. and not walk sideways. :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> thanks for asking about my dad, he seemed to give off a really positive vibe to me when i went to see him at hospital, he was radiating a great energy and it enhanced my mood and comfortability while visiting (hate hospitals).
> He has been given a lot of meds to take which i need to google, i think one may be a beta blocker. He says he feels light headed and sick at the moment, diarrhea etc, hoping that will pass for him soon.
> 
> Would appreciate some info if you guys know anything about these drugs @*SFC01* @*Gillman fan* @*watertouch* @*Tandorini*
> 
> Ramipril 2.5mg
> Bisoprolol fumarate 2.5mg
> Clopidogrel 75mg


They're all very common drugs for heart or bloodpressure problems.

Bisoprolol is a betablocker, Ramipril inhibits ACE (used for high blood pressure, heart failure or as a profylactic for heart attacks) and Clopidogrel is also to prevent strokes or heart attacks.

I didn't catch your father's history, but from the medication he's on I would assume he's had a heart attack, and is now on meds to prevent him having a new one, and they also found he had high BP so they added something for that as well?


----------



## Tandorini

And yeah, diarreah (or however that's spelled) is a side effect of all these drugs. But I haven't heard of any patient having trouble with that for a long period of time. After all, we're not talking about Nardil here  Low BP can also be a side effect until his body is adjusted to the meds. If it persists, he may have to go decrease the dose.


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## sming

SFC01 said:


> Yeah, I kind of like serry actually, gets a bad rep, maybe because docs do seem to dish out to treat everything, but it worked well enough for me for sleep and maybe some help with mood at times too. You will get used to 12.5mg after a while as tolerance to its sleep properties does build, so I reckon after a few weeks, and it works ok for you, then you should be able to get up 25mg whilst avoiding the sleep paralysis if you needed to.
> 
> When you start getting above 25/50, you start getting the munchies with it!!
> 
> You getting anymore moddy ? dont know what to to think of that as sometimes it does what its supposed but other times it seems to actually give me narcolepsy !! and then if I take it for a week or two, when I stop, I`m still left with a touch of narcolepsy for a couple of weeks - ****ing plays havoc with my mindful meditation.


BTW I find the exact same thing with Provigil. Sometimes it has been super effective eg resulting in me easily working 12 hours happily but mostly it seems to make me more somnolent. I can't figure it out. It's not just what it's being combined with either, I've found this on many classes of meds and many combinations. Most odd.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


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## Tandorini

Was with the pdoc yesterday. I don't think Parnate is going to happen. But he did do some thorough research, both online, and he talked (and named them to me) to several "old" doctors at the inpatient clinic and also at the psyhiatric ward. He named four pdocs, two of them who know me from before, so he really did do his job. The one who first started me on Nardil said that reading up on Parnate it wouldn't be a terrible idea, but that he would first recommend decreasing Nardil to see if the side effects wear off, and the effect stays. I remember him telling me that after a while I can stick to 15 mg every second day, so I guess that's what his plan is now. 

None of the pdocs had any experience with Parnate. Only two of them had heard of it. My pdoc, if he was to prescribe it to me, he wouldn't have anyone to ask advice if anything happened that he needed to talk to someone about, rather than just reading about it. He doesn't want to do that. Besides, he told me he's only there until March (yup, I'm getting another one. I go through these pdoc faster than...well...none has lasted a full year), and it certainly wouldn't be right starting me up on it and then leaving the followup to some random pdoc.

He asked me several times about what I thought of this. I told him it's okay, but that if Nardil at a lower dose doesn't work for me, I still hope Parnate will be concidered. And he said that well, it's not a clear no by any means. It's just that it puts him in a difficult situation, prescribing something just by reading about it, not having a single collegue who has ever used it.

So starting yesterday I started 45 mg of Nardil. I hope it can work for me. I'm gonna stay at that dose for a month, and then go down to 30 mg if I feel good about it. Seeing the pdoc in 6 weeks time, and we'll discuss how it goes.


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## Tandorini

I've been waking up really early ever since I started Nardil (or maybe it started at a certain dose, I can't remember). So. I reduce the dose to 45 mg Monday. Tuesday morning, I wake up at 7.30, rather than 5 or 6 am. Tuesday, I once again had 45 mg of Nardil. This morning, I slept until 8.30!

Holy crap! This sleep thing has been bugging me a lot, but what it seems like now, is that I could have skipped a single tablet on days I really wanted to sleep in. I'm so eager to see what other side effects will wear off. And of course, if the effect still is satisfactory.

And if I ever need to get up real early, I can always just pop an extra Nardil the night before.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> I've been waking up really early ever since I started Nardil (or maybe it started at a certain dose, I can't remember). So. I reduce the dose to 45 mg Monday. Tuesday morning, I wake up at 7.30, rather than 5 or 6 am. Tuesday, I once again had 45 mg of Nardil. This morning, I slept until 8.30!
> 
> Holy crap! This sleep thing has been bugging me a lot, but what it seems like now, is that I could have skipped a single tablet on days I really wanted to sleep in. I'm so eager to see what other side effects will wear off. And of course, if the effect still is satisfactory.
> 
> And if I ever need to get up real early, I can always just pop an extra Nardil the night before.


Hiya, sorry Tandorini but not up to date on this thread, why do you want to switch to parny ? due to the nardil side effects?


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Hiya, sorry Tandorini but not up to date on this thread, why do you want to switch to parny ? due to the nardil side effects?


Both because of side effects yeah, but also because I don't feel happy emotions, and I wonder if Parnate could be helping me that extra bit.

But looking at the official prescription register there has been less than 7 prescriptions of Parnate each year. In comparison, there has been around 80 prescriptions for Nardil. So it basically means that Nardil is the only MAOI in use in my country. So I don't really have my hopes up for Parnate anymore. But I do hope that less Nardil will make it easier for me.


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## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Both because of side effects yeah, but also because I don't feel happy emotions, and I wonder if Parnate could be helping me that extra bit.
> 
> But looking at the official prescription register there has been less than 7 prescriptions of Parnate each year. In comparison, there has been around 80 prescriptions for Nardil. So it basically means that Nardil is the only MAOI in use in my country. So I don't really have my hopes up for Parnate anymore. But I do hope that less Nardil will make it easier for me.


oh ok, it was just when you mentioned that skipping a single tablet helped with sleeping, I thought maybe taking usual dose of nardil every other day may help you with side effects.


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## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> oh ok, it was just when you mentioned that skipping a single tablet helped with sleeping, I thought maybe taking usual dose of nardil every other day may help you with side effects.


Who knows, I'm just gonna have to try different things out. Going with 45 mg for now. If it all goes downhill, I could go 45/60 I suppose.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Was with the pdoc yesterday. I don't think Parnate is going to happen. But he did do some thorough research, both online, and he talked (and named them to me) to several "old" doctors at the inpatient clinic and also at the psyhiatric ward. He named four pdocs, two of them who know me from before, so he really did do his job. The one who first started me on Nardil said that reading up on Parnate it wouldn't be a terrible idea, but that he would first recommend decreasing Nardil to see if the side effects wear off, and the effect stays. I remember him telling me that after a while I can stick to 15 mg every second day, so I guess that's what his plan is now.
> 
> None of the pdocs had any experience with Parnate. Only two of them had heard of it. My pdoc, if he was to prescribe it to me, he wouldn't have anyone to ask advice if anything happened that he needed to talk to someone about, rather than just reading about it. He doesn't want to do that. Besides, he told me he's only there until March (yup, I'm getting another one. I go through these pdoc faster than...well...none has lasted a full year), and it certainly wouldn't be right starting me up on it and then leaving the followup to some random pdoc.
> 
> He asked me several times about what I thought of this. I told him it's okay, but that if Nardil at a lower dose doesn't work for me, I still hope Parnate will be concidered. And he said that well, it's not a clear no by any means. It's just that it puts him in a difficult situation, prescribing something just by reading about it, not having a single collegue who has ever used it.
> 
> So starting yesterday I started 45 mg of Nardil. I hope it can work for me. I'm gonna stay at that dose for a month, and then go down to 30 mg if I feel good about it. Seeing the pdoc in 6 weeks time, and we'll discuss how it goes.


Well you can't fault him for conscientious effort. I guess you're a victim of circumstance i.e. Parnate just isn't prescribed where you live. That's not to say he can't just read all of psychotropical.info and know enough, either, mind. For instance my PDoc prescribed it but doesn't know **** about it - I know tons and tons more. He just read about interactions on it on the known interactions-checkers. However if he's leaving in short order then it makes sense to play it safe than leave a potential pile of dog poop situationally for a new guy/gal to figuratively pick up...

If you're anything like me, Nardil works quite well for you and Parnate really doesn't. I was depressed as hell on it for some reason. I was pretty distraught at both the intensity of the depression and the fact it was happening at all on a med I had had such high hopes for. As always, YMMV so who knows.

Reading ahead I see that 45mg is promising - that's great. I'm currently at 60mg and barring the classic SE's at week 1&2 (muscular weakness, dizziness and so on) I'm not experiencing the same level of somnolence I was when I was last on Nardil 7 years ago. Weird. Sure I'm tired for a couple of 2-3 hour periods but nothing like the eyelid-auto-lowering, all-encompassing, cellular-level exhaustion I used to experience. Most odd.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

At sleep doses Seroquel shouldn't have much of a mood effect:

http://www.jabfm.org/content/28/1/154.full
"At 25 to 50 mg, quetiapine acts primarily as a histamine and α1 adrenergic antagonist, explaining its hypnotic effects, including daytime sedation."


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## Tandorini

sming said:


> Well you can't fault him for conscientious effort. I guess you're a victim of circumstance i.e. Parnate just isn't prescribed where you live. That's not to say he can't just read all of psychotropical.info and know enough, either, mind. For instance my PDoc prescribed it but doesn't know **** about it - I know tons and tons more. He just read about interactions on it on the known interactions-checkers. However if he's leaving in short order then it makes sense to play it safe than leave a potential pile of dog poop situationally for a new guy/gal to figuratively pick up...
> 
> If you're anything like me, Nardil works quite well for you and Parnate really doesn't. I was depressed as hell on it for some reason. I was pretty distraught at both the intensity of the depression and the fact it was happening at all on a med I had had such high hopes for. As always, YMMV so who knows.
> 
> Reading ahead I see that 45mg is promising - that's great. I'm currently at 60mg and barring the classic SE's at week 1&2 (muscular weakness, dizziness and so on) I'm not experiencing the same level of somnolence I was when I was last on Nardil 7 years ago. Weird. Sure I'm tired for a couple of 2-3 hour periods but nothing like the eyelid-auto-lowering, all-encompassing, cellular-level exhaustion I used to experience. Most odd.


Yeah, he did just what I asked, and just as he promised. Checked it out real well, asking coworkers, and then making a descision based on that. I told him about Gillman, but I doubt he wants to have him as his only source of personal experience. I guess he's got a licence to keep, after all  He didn't know much about Nardil either, but at least he has coworkers who do, and I was already on it.

I know how hard of a time I've had with the docs not knowing enough about Nardil, like when I tried telling them how tired I was, and they kept saying that it was the depression, or even the fact that I was getting better. I knew it couldn't be, but I had no way of proofing it until months had passed and I tried even higher doses. So being on Parnate I would probably be quite frustrated not to have a doc to ask about stuff. I mean, it's great that there is information available online, but nothing in my language, and besides, it's better to discuss these things face to face. So it might be for the best, not getting Parnate. It's not ruled out though, but I need to try Nardil at lower doses first.

Wonder what the new pdoc will be like. During the 2.5 years I've been going to that clinic I've had 6 docs, I think. I only asked to switch once (at the end of my second appointment with him, he managed to ask me what my name was....that was the last time I bothered seeing him), while the others quit. I think a lot of the pdocs there work there for years and years, but I've been unlucky and got docs filling a temporary position or something. Who knows. Well, it doesn't really matter anymore, I have found the meds for me, all I need now is a bit of adjusting doses from time to time, really.


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## V1bzz

It's really odd looking at what meds I have now in my signature, christ i had to fight so hard all year just to get someone to see me and help me on nardil....now it seems like i'm a pillhead!

well as @SFC01 knows, once a pillhead always a pillhead lol


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> It's really odd looking at what meds I have now in my signature, christ i had to fight so hard all year just to get someone to see me and help me on nardil....now it seems like i'm a pillhead!
> 
> well as @*SFC01* knows, once a pillhead always a pillhead lol


Its better living through chemistry mate


----------



## cigpk

sming said:


> Well you can't fault him for conscientious effort. I guess you're a victim of circumstance i.e. Parnate just isn't prescribed where you live. That's not to say he can't just read all of psychotropical.info and know enough, either, mind. For instance my PDoc prescribed it but doesn't know **** about it - I know tons and tons more. He just read about interactions on it on the known interactions-checkers. However if he's leaving in short order then it makes sense to play it safe than leave a potential pile of dog poop situationally for a new guy/gal to figuratively pick up...
> 
> If you're anything like me, Nardil works quite well for you and Parnate really doesn't. I was depressed as hell on it for some reason. I was pretty distraught at both the intensity of the depression and the fact it was happening at all on a med I had had such high hopes for. As always, YMMV so who knows.
> 
> Reading ahead I see that 45mg is promising - that's great. I'm currently at 60mg and barring the classic SE's at week 1&2 (muscular weakness, dizziness and so on) I'm not experiencing the same level of somnolence I was when I was last on Nardil 7 years ago. Weird. Sure I'm tired for a couple of 2-3 hour periods but nothing like the eyelid-auto-lowering, all-encompassing, cellular-level exhaustion I used to experience. Most odd.


I am my psych's first patient to try Nardil or Parnate.. He had a few people on Emsam (selegiline patch) but I tried that out and just felt like I was hopped up on caffeine with no benefits to mood/anxiety..

Lol getting him to augment my Parnate has been a joke this time around. I just say I read some articles about parnate/wellbutrin or parnate/remeron and he just doesn't even try to argue anymore and agrees because he's too lazy to do 30 minutes of research for information that would only benefit a single patient of his.. I really don't like the guy but I can't find anyone else to prescribe MAOIs so I'm settling with him for now..

I hope everyone is doing good though @V1bzz looks like you have found a nice combo for now which is exciting. Good for you and your persistence man that's very cool. It's always hard to play the waiting game for a good med combo but it works out sometimes.

I have been on Parnate for like 3 weeks now. Taking Welllbutrin/Parnate/Trazodone and down to 3.25 mg of remeron and about to come off that completely before I start lowering my Trazodone dosage (from 100 to 50 over a couple of weeks). I had to drop my Parny dose back to 30 cause I was having some discouraging side effects but adding in Wellbutrin has been helpful for fatigue and mood. I reeeeally wish I had tried a Wellbutrin/Nardil combo when I had been on the nardy train. Oh well, I'm gonna give Parnate a good 3 months and hopefully I'll be side effect free.


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Its better living through chemistry mate


Slice of toast, banananana, cup of tea, 3 nardil, sip of triffy, 2 valium and 2 pro plus = That's what I just had for breakfast.

Dunno what your on about mate! :grin2:

May need to drop a couple of co-codamols too if this headache doesn't shift. Always feel like **** when i have a lie in, well needed though after 6 days of 0530 - 1700 working shifts.


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## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> I am my psych's first patient to try Nardil or Parnate.. He had a few people on Emsam (selegiline patch) but I tried that out and just felt like I was hopped up on caffeine with no benefits to mood/anxiety..
> 
> Lol getting him to augment my Parnate has been a joke this time around. I just say I read some articles about parnate/wellbutrin or parnate/remeron and he just doesn't even try to argue anymore and agrees because he's too lazy to do 30 minutes of research for information that would only benefit a single patient of his.. I really don't like the guy but I can't find anyone else to prescribe MAOIs so I'm settling with him for now..
> 
> I hope everyone is doing good though @V1bzz looks like you have found a nice combo for now which is exciting. Good for you and your persistence man that's very cool. It's always hard to play the waiting game for a good med combo but it works out sometimes.
> 
> I have been on Parnate for like 3 weeks now. Taking Welllbutrin/Parnate/Trazodone and down to 3.25 mg of remeron and about to come off that completely before I start lowering my Trazodone dosage (from 100 to 50 over a couple of weeks). I had to drop my Parny dose back to 30 cause I was having some discouraging side effects but adding in Wellbutrin has been helpful for fatigue and mood. I reeeeally wish I had tried a Wellbutrin/Nardil combo when I had been on the nardy train. Oh well, I'm gonna give Parnate a good 3 months and hopefully I'll be side effect free.


Thanks man, getting there slowly but surely.....really hope your current stack works out for you. I still feel keen to try parny but am sh1t scared of going back to how i was when i stopped the nardil. Took me a good 2 weeks to recover from that. Can't go back there again and remember how hellish life used to be!!! never!!!!


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## V1bzz

Would just like to add how massively worried i am about @watertouch - we need to hear from you brother, good or bad, if bad times we can help you through it. Just talk to us!


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## Gillman fan

V1 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but I think Seroquel is a rotten garbage drug for most people. If you were experiencing symptoms like paranoia, hearing voices etc. I could understand. It is an anti-psychotic and even if it is working now there are significant long-term health risks to your motor functions and insulin sensitivity.

No urgency to change it, but it shouldn't be part of your final cocktail.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Would just like to add how massively worried i am about @*watertouch* - we need to hear from you brother, good or bad, if bad times we can help you through it. Just talk to us!


Yeah mate me too.

I tried sending a skype message to him but it was the first time I had used it so dont know if it worked or not.

I asked Kurdish Fella, him being a fellow swede, if he had anyway to get in touch with him but he didnt unfortunately.

Any ideas anyone as to how we can reach out to @watertouch ?


----------



## SFC01

Gillman fan said:


> V1 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but I think Seroquel is a rotten garbage drug for most people. If you were experiencing symptoms like paranoia, hearing voices etc. I could understand. It is an anti-psychotic and even if it is working now there are significant long-term health risks to your motor functions and insulin sensitivity.
> 
> No urgency to change it, but it shouldn't be part of your final cocktail.


I know you are not a fan of quetiapine but it has helped me in the past.

There seems to be quite a few decent studies out there GF, saying that it is effective for depression, especially when used in conjunction with an anti-depressant. Don't know if you have looked at them or not, if so did they seem valid to you ?


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## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> V1 I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but I think Seroquel is a rotten garbage drug for most people. If you were experiencing symptoms like paranoia, hearing voices etc. I could understand. It is an anti-psychotic and even if it is working now there are significant long-term health risks to your motor functions and insulin sensitivity.
> 
> No urgency to change it, but it shouldn't be part of your final cocktail.


Thanks @Gillman fan - yes i intend to ask for Amitriptyline on the 18th when i see the pdoc. I do suffer from really bad paranoia but nardil maybe stopped that by 80%.
I was just reading that for mood lift i need to be at least taking 100mg so will be taking that tonight, just tiding myself over until i get to see him again. I also have triffy which is an old skool med, you ever heard of it? (Trifluoperazine)...its a very effective drug, i take it in medicine form, tasted like cough medicine but it beats thins like valiu hands down, instantly stopped my manic stress moments.


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## V1bzz

@*SFC01* did serry give you restlessness initially? i really hate this feeling, can't seem to find any position to feel relief from it ahhhh!!!

here's my latest mix, not bad for about 10hrs practice, producing for 4 yrs defo helps...


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## V1bzz

Damn it i'm going to have to stopt the seroquel...
https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/16/6/1427/754404

do not want rls back in my life like this =(


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## V1bzz

Thank god i've got some diazepam left, 1 5mg just about got rid of it, taken a second, should get it gone!!! 
Oh i binned the serry, felt the RLS returning over the last couple of days! horrible!!


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## Gillman fan

You are currently taking not one, but two antipsychotics.

From Wikipedia: 


> A 2004 meta-analysis of the studies on trifluoperazine found that it is more likely than placebo to cause extrapyramidal side effects such as akathisia, dystonia, and Parkinsonism.[5] It is also more likely to cause somnolence and anticholinergic side effects such as red eye and xerostomia (dry mouth).[5] All antipsychotics can cause the rare and sometimes fatal neuroleptic malignant syndrome.[6] Trifluoperazine can lower the seizure threshold.[7] The antimuscarinic action of trifluoperazine can cause excessive dilation of the pupils (mydriasis), which increases the chances of patients with hyperopia developing glaucoma.[8]


I don't know who your doctor is, but prescribing not one, but TWO antipsychotics to someone who does not suffer from schizophrenia or bipolar is... not the usual practice.

"Triffy" is the most likely culprit behind your need to move your body. "Restless leg syndrome" is a diagnosis for people who experience the symptom without any external cause. "Akathisia" is the side effect caused by antipsychotic, it is a subset of what is known as "extra-pyramidal symptoms (EPS)" which include other movement disorders. Don't take my word for it, look at this Wikipedia page which includes a video: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia. I think you will make the right decision here.

Seroquel is less likely to cause EPS but more likely to cause insulin sensitivity, i.e. pre-diabetes. This med is overprescribed garbage.

V1bzz I mean no offense but it is clear to me you somehow ended up with a "stack" that you do not really understand. I have no idea how your doctor prescribed two antipsychotics, but at this point I would be highly skeptical of his advice too. I have only read a small fraction of the posts you madein this thread because you update it so frequently. I think it is great to express yourself and how you are feeling, etc. it is very therapeutic but 84 pages is too much for me to read.

You need to start from square one and think things through *systematically*. Write down:

1)Symptoms before Nardil;
2)What benefits you have noticed on Nardil at current dose and at other doses you trialed;
3)What symptoms are untreated by Nardil at current dose and at other doses you trialed;
4)What side effects are caused by Nardil at current dose and at other doses you trialed;
5)The benefits and drawbacks of other medications you have tried. Include how long you were on that medication.
6)Age of onset, severity etc. regarding your symptoms. Go into detail on things like anxiety and paranoia - do you experience anxiety as physical arousal? (elevated heart beat etc.). 
7)History of illicit drug use. Which drugs you tried, how long you used them, which ones you liked and disliked.

Also go into detail on all of this. Don't just say "I feel depressed." Depression can mean many different things. Eating more or less? Less interest in activities you used to enjoy? What was age of onset, duration of episode, level of severity, etc.

Once you have the relevant information clearly listed it will be easier to get good advice. You could contact Dr. Gillman via Skype, I would send him the list I just suggested in writing. I would be willing to give advice too but I think your case is fairly complicated and I am not going to start spitting out suggestions without getting a MUCH better understanding of what your issues are. My impression is that you have(had) a kaleidoscope of severe symptoms as well as a history of drug use/abuse.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> You are currently taking not one, but two antipsychotics.
> 
> From Wikipedia:
> 
> I don't know who your doctor is, but prescribing not one, but TWO antipsychotics to someone who does not suffer from schizophrenia or bipolar is... not the usual practice.
> 
> "Triffy" is the most likely culprit behind your need to move your body. "Restless leg syndrome" is a diagnosis for people who experience the symptom without any external cause. "Akathisia" is the side effect caused by antipsychotic, it is a subset of what is known as "extra-pyramidal symptoms (EPS)" which include other movement disorders. Don't take my word for it, look at this Wikipedia page which includes a video: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia. I think you will make the right decision here.
> 
> Seroquel is less likely to cause EPS but more likely to cause insulin sensitivity, i.e. pre-diabetes. This med is overprescribed garbage.
> 
> V1bzz I mean no offense but it is clear to me you somehow ended up with a "stack" that you do not really understand. I have no idea how your doctor prescribed two antipsychotics, but at this point I would be highly skeptical of his advice too. I have only read a small fraction of the posts you madein this thread because you update it so frequently. I think it is great to express yourself and how you are feeling, etc. it is very therapeutic but 84 pages is too much for me to read.
> 
> You need to start from square one and think things through *systematically*. Write down:
> 
> 1)Symptoms before Nardil;
> 2)What benefits you have noticed on Nardil at current dose and at other doses you trialed;
> 3)What symptoms are untreated by Nardil at current dose and at other doses you trialed;
> 4)What side effects are caused by Nardil at current dose and at other doses you trialed;
> 5)The benefits and drawbacks of other medications you have tried. Include how long you were on that medication.
> 6)Age of onset, severity etc. regarding your symptoms. Go into detail on things like anxiety and paranoia - do you experience anxiety as physical arousal? (elevated heart beat etc.).
> 7)History of illicit drug use. Which drugs you tried, how long you used them, which ones you liked and disliked.
> 
> Also go into detail on all of this. Don't just say "I feel depressed." Depression can mean many different things. Eating more or less? Less interest in activities you used to enjoy? What was age of onset, duration of episode, level of severity, etc.
> 
> Once you have the relevant information clearly listed it will be easier to get good advice. You could contact Dr. Gillman via Skype, I would send him the list I just suggested in writing. I would be willing to give advice too but I think your case is fairly complicated and I am not going to start spitting out suggestions without getting a MUCH better understanding of what your issues are. My impression is that you have(had) a kaleidoscope of severe symptoms as well as a history of drug use/abuse.


no no he didnt precribe it, an idiot normal doctor did, it's me being naughty again. oh the triffy I don't use it much at all, the RLS has only came on since i started on the serry, plus it is making me feel damn tired again as soon as i finish work, leaving me with no time to do anything but want to sleep. Don't want to go back to that. 100% serry has caused that.

As far as the pdoc knows is im taking my 3 nardil in the morning and taking triffy 3 times a day, I did say to him that if it was ok to just give myself the 3 doses in one go if i was having a particularly bad moment and he said that was ok. The diazepam is left over from what the normal doctor gave me, i mainly use it now very very rarely when i wake up with awful lower back pain, it helps greatly. The triffy is very effective but side effects are stiff joints, I already feel that in my arms so have cut right down using that also.

All in all i was doing pretty good until i added the serry to the mix, my excema has really flared up bad, i itch all the damn time, rip my skin to pieces, feel RLS intensely in my lower legs and feel damn tired all the time. That's enough for me to bin that sh1t....this all started when i started on the serry, 100%!


----------



## V1bzz

I will start a new thread if I get the amitriptyline from the pdoc on the 18th...good idea!

may edit my first post in this thread explaining that it is a long thread but if they want to know a lot about nardil side effects and possible treatments, combinations then they should read it 

There is a wealth of knowledge in this one thread. unfortunately i dont have the time these days to pull out the best bits and end the thread with a summary. plus we do all like a good jibber jabber here too lol 

Friendships have been built in this thread


----------



## Tandorini

@VB1zz Seroquel gives med RLS, but it's clearly dose dependent. I've been taking way higher doses than you though, but I had to go down from 400 mg to 200 mg because of RLS. I am at 175 mg now, I want to taper it down, to see if I can do with lower doses. But I know it's hard to come off, I've tried it before, so I'm giving it heaps of time.

I have been at 45 mg of Nardil (after about 9 months on 60 mg) for a bit more than a week now. The sides are the first to go, so I am feeling okay about it.

So far I'm sleeping longer in the mornings (instead of waking up in the wee hours of the morning)
I have less of an "antsy" feeling in my body when I wake up, I can rest better

I also had my flu shot, on Dec. 1st. On Dec 3rd, I got a sore throat and a feeling of malaise, and thought I had a reaction to the vaccine. On Dec 4th, I went from 60 to 45 mg of Nardil.

But these flu-like symptoms won't stop. It's the 13th today, I've never had a cold or anything lasting for 10-11 days. I know Nardil withdrawal can give a feeling of malaise, but I feel certain that wouldn't include upper respiratory symptoms, so I can't really believe Nardil has anything to do with it. The symptoms don't really match with anything. Maybe it's just a cold, and the fact that I had the flu shot at about the same time makes my immun system struggle a little more to get rid of it, I dunno.

One day I can feel a bit better, but like today, I woke up, ate a slice of bread for breakfast, then I went for a nap at 2 pm, waking up at 6 pm (I hardly ever nap more than an hour), and at 7pm I had my day's second meal. I feel a bit nasceus (can never get that word spelled right), and just flu-like kinda, but without the aches and pains in joints and muscles.

I hate that feeling of being half sick, half okay. And I really wanted to feel if the faitgue was getting less with 45 mg of Nardil, but now that I'm sick I sleep a lot anyway, so there's no way to tell.

Gonna run a couple of tests on myself at work tomorrow.

I'm impatient  But have any of you guys experienced anything like this when withdrawing from Nardil?


----------



## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> @*VB1*zz Seroquel gives med RLS, but it's clearly dose dependent. I've been taking way higher doses than you though, but I had to go down from 400 mg to 200 mg because of RLS. I am at 175 mg now, I want to taper it down, to see if I can do with lower doses. But I know it's hard to come off, I've tried it before, so I'm giving it heaps of time.
> 
> I have been at 45 mg of Nardil (after about 9 months on 60 mg) for a bit more than a week now. The sides are the first to go, so I am feeling okay about it.
> 
> So far I'm sleeping longer in the mornings (instead of waking up in the wee hours of the morning)
> I have less of an "antsy" feeling in my body when I wake up, I can rest better
> 
> I also had my flu shot, on Dec. 1st. On Dec 3rd, I got a sore throat and a feeling of malaise, and thought I had a reaction to the vaccine. On Dec 4th, I went from 60 to 45 mg of Nardil.
> 
> But these flu-like symptoms won't stop. It's the 13th today, I've never had a cold or anything lasting for 10-11 days. I know Nardil withdrawal can give a feeling of malaise, but I feel certain that wouldn't include upper respiratory symptoms, so I can't really believe Nardil has anything to do with it. The symptoms don't really match with anything. Maybe it's just a cold, and the fact that I had the flu shot at about the same time makes my immun system struggle a little more to get rid of it, I dunno.
> 
> One day I can feel a bit better, but like today, I woke up, ate a slice of bread for breakfast, then I went for a nap at 2 pm, waking up at 6 pm (I hardly ever nap more than an hour), and at 7pm I had my day's second meal. I feel a bit nasceus (can never get that word spelled right), and just flu-like kinda, but without the aches and pains in joints and muscles.
> 
> I hate that feeling of being half sick, half okay. And I really wanted to feel if the faitgue was getting less with 45 mg of Nardil, but now that I'm sick I sleep a lot anyway, so there's no way to tell.
> 
> Gonna run a couple of tests on myself at work tomorrow.
> 
> I'm impatient  But have any of you guys experienced anything like this when withdrawing from Nardil?


 @*Tandorini* - Are you planning on completely withdrawing from Nardil? Sorry to hear what you're going through. Hopefully this only lasts for a short time and you're back to feeling good again soon.

I dropped to 45 last week too after being on 75 for four months. First I went down to 60 for 2 weeks, and now I've been on 45 for 1 week. 
It's been a nightmare.

I haven't experienced anything like what you're going through, but my social anxiety levels are through the roof - back to pre-Nardil levels. I'm not planning on withdrawing, just planning to get some relief from side effects. I thought dropping down to 45 wouldn't bother me, but boy was I wrong. Apparently I'm very sensitive and have horrible reactions to changes in dose.

I almost raised the dose back up to 75 yesterday, but decided to tough it out till the weekend. I want one more weekend without those nasty side effects. Then I'll go back up to 75 on Sunday. I hope it works again when I raise the dose. If not, I'm gonna be super depressed.

By the way, this has been the 2nd day in a row where my face has gotten completely red when by boss decided to chat with me. That hasn't happened since April. I feel so sick with anxiety while at work, I feel like I'm holding onto a rope for dear life.

The next time I'm thinking about lowering my dose, I'm definitely going to think twice. It's crazy how badly I react to changes. Within just a few days of lowering, I got smacked in the face with pre-Nardil SA.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

WillComp said:


> @*Tandorini* - Are you planning on completely withdrawing from Nardil? Sorry to hear what you're going through. Hopefully this only lasts for a short time and you're back to feeling good again soon.
> 
> I dropped to 45 last week too after being on 75 for four months. First I went down to 60 for 2 weeks, and now I've been on 45 for 1 week.
> It's been a nightmare.
> 
> I haven't experienced anything like what you're going through, but my social anxiety levels are through the roof - back to pre-Nardil levels. I'm not planning on withdrawing, just planning to get some relief from side effects. I thought dropping down to 45 wouldn't bother me, but boy was I wrong. Apparently I'm very sensitive and have horrible reactions to changes in dose.
> 
> I almost raised the dose back up to 75 yesterday, but decided to tough it out till the weekend. I want one more weekend without those nasty side effects. Then I'll go back up to 75 on Sunday. I hope it works again when I raise the dose. If not, I'm gonna be super depressed.
> 
> By the way, this has been the 2nd day in a row where my face has gotten completely red when by boss decided to chat with me. That hasn't happened since April. I feel so sick with anxiety while at work, I feel like I'm holding onto a rope for dear life.
> 
> The next time I'm thinking about lowering my dose, I'm definitely going to think twice. It's crazy how badly I react to changes. Within just a few days of lowering, I got smacked in the face with pre-Nardil SA.


I would go up to 60mg for a week or two to see where you are. You never know, maybe that will stabilize for you which would mean less side effects in the long run.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> @*Tandorini* - Are you planning on completely withdrawing from Nardil? Sorry to hear what you're going through. Hopefully this only lasts for a short time and you're back to feeling good again soon.
> 
> I dropped to 45 last week too after being on 75 for four months. First I went down to 60 for 2 weeks, and now I've been on 45 for 1 week.
> It's been a nightmare.
> 
> I haven't experienced anything like what you're going through, but my social anxiety levels are through the roof - back to pre-Nardil levels. I'm not planning on withdrawing, just planning to get some relief from side effects. I thought dropping down to 45 wouldn't bother me, but boy was I wrong. Apparently I'm very sensitive and have horrible reactions to changes in dose.
> 
> I almost raised the dose back up to 75 yesterday, but decided to tough it out till the weekend. I want one more weekend without those nasty side effects. Then I'll go back up to 75 on Sunday. I hope it works again when I raise the dose. If not, I'm gonna be super depressed.
> 
> By the way, this has been the 2nd day in a row where my face has gotten completely red when by boss decided to chat with me. That hasn't happened since April. I feel so sick with anxiety while at work, I feel like I'm holding onto a rope for dear life.
> 
> The next time I'm thinking about lowering my dose, I'm definitely going to think twice. It's crazy how badly I react to changes. Within just a few days of lowering, I got smacked in the face with pre-Nardil SA.


Nah, I will stay on Nardil, but at the lowest possible maintenance dose. The doctor mentioned 15 mg every other day at the lowest. I'll see how I go.

I'm still not well, had a chat with one of the doctors at work. She said it might be the flu shot being a strain on my immune system, and that I probably was unlucky enough to get a cold or something right after getting the shot. That's why it last for ages like this. I didn't mention reducing Nardil to her.

Maybe you should stay at 60 for a while longer? The anxiety you are feeling may be some kind of rebound effect, not necessarily the "old anxiety" coming back to stay.


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp - I have nardil narcolepsy soooo damn bad at the moment, i had to take 10 energy pills just to stay awake enough to drive home yesterday...10!!!!

I wasn't too bad today, done it on 5 but as soon as i got home and sat at the laptop BAM i was gone, I took another 5 and am just barely able to stay awake.

I used to take 2 of these same tablets last time. This is just intense craziness!!!

Thank fluck I have the pdoc on monday, he's going to have to give me something for this. couple of times i went into mr narc land and swerved into the middle of the road just missing on coming traffic!!


----------



## V1bzz

Man sounds like we are all suffering a bit at the moment, here's hoping we all snap out of it sharpish.
@Tandorini, yeah i sometimes feel like i have a cold but not, if you know what i mean lol. Also can no longer take short naps cos i end up sleeping for 4 hours also. weird thing though, since i completely stopped and started again nardil is by far working better than before...just this narc man, it's killing my free time. I don't want to sleep all damn day.

I get paid week today, if my doc doesn't give me modafinil or something better i will be buying some again, they are the real deal, proper prescription stuff, pm me if you want the link.


----------



## V1bzz

Now i'm giving in and going to bed, I used to go to bed at midnight and get up at 0530, its just the right amount of sleep for me, around 6hrs ish my body prefers....more than that and i feel like crap all day!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Man sounds like we are all suffering a bit at the moment, here's hoping we all snap out of it sharpish.
> 
> @*Tandorini* , yeah i sometimes feel like i have a cold but not, if you know what i mean lol. Also can no longer take short naps cos i end up sleeping for 4 hours also. weird thing though, since i completely stopped and started again nardil is by far working better than before...just this narc man, it's killing my free time. I don't want to sleep all damn day.
> 
> I get paid week today, if my doc doesn't give me modafinil or something better i will be buying some again, they are the real deal, proper prescription stuff, pm me if you want the link.


Well, I'm not doing too bad mentally, I guess. And the cold/flu symptoms are easing a bit, even though they're still there. I was called in to work yesterday to do an extra shift, and worked for 6 hours straight. There was a lack of personell, so I really worked as hard as I could. I feel a little more down after exhausting myself at work, it's weird. I should feel better about myself. But I'm just exhausted, and have no energy for any defense mechanisms.

About the modafinil, I'm kinda of an "all prescriptions" gal.  Never ordered anything online other than supplements and the occiacional melatonin a few years back. Besides, almost everything gets stopped by customs, and you can end up on police charges. Norway's really stricht with these things. You can't even get stuff like melatonin or sedating antihistamines OTC. Anyway, I've got my hopes up that my fatigue will get better by reducing Nardil. If it doesn't, or if I loose effect and have to go back up to 60 mg, I might have to discuss it with my doc. He said we could discuss Parnate again too, if that was the case, but he made clear that he was in no way making any promises, he just said that we would wait to discuss Parnate further until we tried reducing Nardil and see how that went.

Good to hear that Nardil seems to work better on you, but you are certainly bothered by the fatigue, it sounds worse than I've got it, really. I mean, I would get tired and exhausted really sudden, but it was more of feeling incredibly unwell like I hadn't slept for ages, I would never just fall asleep, I just had the urge to find somewhere to sleep ASAP.


----------



## V1bzz

@Gillman fan - i fear you were right, well i know you were. Pdoc wouldn't give me anything for the narc until nardil is in my system better since the restart. I took the full dose of triffy today and my legs are unbearable with RLS, i don't know what to do now, its driving me mad.
Do i give seroquel another go?

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp me all.....im off to do some calf raises :'(

Only thing i know stops it is 10mg diazzy and i've ran out :'( :'(


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## Tandorini

Been at 45 mg for 15 days now. Huge relief in side effects, and no decreased effect on my depression so far. Usually the side effects go first, I know that, but still, I've got my hopes up. Saw my psychologist yesterday, he asked me a lot about the decrease and whether I had suicidal thoughts and stuff, telling me to react immideatly if I felt depressed for any more than one day or so during the holidays. Dunno why he's so careful all of a sudden. I've been stable for quite some time now. But still, it hasn't even been a year since my suicide attempt. I'm dreading approaching the "one-year-ago" for a lot of the things that have happened the past year. I've been ill for a few years now, but my one and only suicide attempt was last February.

And yeah, as we were about to finish, I told him that I forgot to tell the pdoc that I've decreased the Seroquel a bit. He wasn't very impressed. Apperantly, I am not to change my meds without consulting the pdoc first. 

(So yeah, I'm glad I didn't try to pull the "But I've already stopped taking Nardil weeks ago, I'm all washed out for Parnate"-crap a few weeks ago  )

Anyway - I sleep well with 150 mg of Seroquel now. Been at 200 mg for ages. Don't like the way they make me fall asleep. The way I lose control, kinda, can't stay awake if I need to.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Been at 45 mg for 15 days now. Huge relief in side effects, and no decreased effect on my depression so far. Usually the side effects go first, I know that, but still, I've got my hopes up. Saw my psychologist yesterday, he asked me a lot about the decrease and whether I had suicidal thoughts and stuff, telling me to react immideatly if I felt depressed for any more than one day or so during the holidays. Dunno why he's so careful all of a sudden. I've been stable for quite some time now. But still, it hasn't even been a year since my suicide attempt. I'm dreading approaching the "one-year-ago" for a lot of the things that have happened the past year. I've been ill for a few years now, but my one and only suicide attempt was last February.
> 
> And yeah, as we were about to finish, I told him that I forgot to tell the pdoc that I've decreased the Seroquel a bit. He wasn't very impressed. Apperantly, I am not to change my meds without consulting the pdoc first.
> 
> (So yeah, I'm glad I didn't try to pull the "But I've already stopped taking Nardil weeks ago, I'm all washed out for Parnate"-crap a few weeks ago  )
> 
> Anyway - I sleep well with 150 mg of Seroquel now. Been at 200 mg for ages. Don't like the way they make me fall asleep. The way I lose control, kinda, can't stay awake if I need to.


That's overall great news. I went in the other direction - up to 75mg - and have bad insomnia. Each of the sleep meds I've tried makes me feel terrible the next day so I'm really reluctant to take them. I do better just feeling exhausted from 2-3 hours sleep. I haven't tried Seroquel though, that might be worth a shot. I do OK on Abilify which is also an AP.


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## Tandorini

sming said:


> That's overall great news. I went in the other direction - up to 75mg - and have bad insomnia. Each of the sleep meds I've tried makes me feel terrible the next day so I'm really reluctant to take them. I do better just feeling exhausted from 2-3 hours sleep. I haven't tried Seroquel though, that might be worth a shot. I do OK on Abilify which is also an AP.


Seroquel is great for sleep, as long as you can get a rx for the normal release tablets, not the extended release one. Also, it eases my mind, so even if I wake up in the middle of the night, I can lay there peacefully, not thinking too much. But having been better for quite some time now because of Nardil, I would like to decrease the Seroquel a bit and see if I can make do at a lower dose.


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## AtlantaPhobic

I sleep really well on 25mg of Seroquel. Sometimes I don't take it at all depending on how I'm feeling. Sometimes I take 12.5mg.

Maybe a bit tired in the morning but one cup of coffee clears it out.


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## Gillman fan

V1 - like I said I think your symptoms, side effects etc. are complicated enough that you need a fresh look. I recommend writing down the things I suggested and asking Dr. Gillman for advice.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> Seroquel is great for sleep, as long as you can get a rx for the normal release tablets, not the extended release one. Also, it eases my mind, so even if I wake up in the middle of the night, I can lay there peacefully, not thinking too much. But having been better for quite some time now because of Nardil, I would like to decrease the Seroquel a bit and see if I can make do at a lower dose.


Thanks for the rec. I've requested it from my PDoc.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @*V1bzz*: holy schitt, that's scary! It's terrifying to think of what could've happened. That happened to me once while driving on a busy road with a lot of curves. I was nodding off going around a curve, and I just missed an oncoming SUV, both of us going full speed. Thankfully he or she beeped which snapped me out of it just in time, so I quickly swerved back in my lane. I still can't believe that happened.
> 
> Driving every day for work must be exhausting. Even if you weren't taking Nardil. I've heard too many stories of overworked truck drivers who have killed innocent drivers, and have to live with that guilt forever, just because they couldn't stay awake on the road. Is there someone you can talk with, maybe call up or chat online with a truck driver, someone who's on the road for multiple days at a time, and ask what they do to stay awake on the road. I think it would be interesting to get some insight on what they actually do to stay awake, especially if they've been driving trucks for many years. They would know the best solution for combating narc symptoms.
> 
> By the way, are you still drinking pink Himalayan salt every day? I'm still drinking it, and my legs aren't as tired and painful as they were before. Not sure if it's the Himalayan or lowering my dose that relieved the pain. I still feel pain every time I walk up the stairs but it's not unbearable. Hope you can find a solution soon. That must really suck!
> 
> As for my symptoms, I only have 1 at the moment and it's the one that's f'd with me since day 1 on 60mg. Go figure. To sum it up, basically I'm a dirty pooch who got castrated back in May but never had the luxury of getting a cone. :blush I don't consider it a side effect any more, I consider it dead and gone, killed by Nardil.
> 
> Thankfully all the other symptoms went away when I recently reduced my dose from 75 to 60 to 45, and stayed at the reduced dose for 3 weeks. As soon as I lowered the dose, the side effects subsided but my social anxiety became unbearable within a few days. Yesterday I went back up to 60, and I feel absolutely wonderful again. I feel so relieved. I suspect I'll get more side effects soon, but for now, no side effects + Nardil kicking in again = euphoria. For now I'm just gonna cherish the moment.


I spoke to the pdoc about it on monday and he says he has never heard of the people who has prescribed nardil to suffering from mr narc, didn't and doesn't prescribe modafinil, wants to see me in 3 weeks as nardil is just getting back into my system again. Man I want to feel this euphoria you get from nardil. It helps me a great deal with anxiety now but i dont feel anything from taking my dose at all.

Yes my legs are much better, a little swollen again but not much. i have most trouble walking a step at a time down the stairs in the evening but put it down to being on my feet all day. 
No more pain like i used to get in my legs phew!!

I swear every time i have dropped dose on nardil and gone back up I have lost a side effect. This time I stopped for real, went back to hell for a little bit but then nardil kicked back in after a week and I realised how wonderful it is for me....just minus feeling great or euphoric. It just takes my anxiety, I would say at a pretty high % now, maybe 70-80%. I'm just totally flat though and still unable to socialize, maybe cos of bad habits and also because i need some anti depressive mood lift. I am back on the serry now at 50mg to start, evening dose, hoping that will give me the lift i need. Would love to join a gym again, I can pretty much talk **** to anyone now, even attractive ladies.....something weird now but I feel like Nardil doesn't really allow me to fancy anyone at the moment, like see any woman as anything but an attractive looking female. Does that make sense?
Maybe I have just lost my mojo again for a bit.

Mate the pink salt is a life change for me, I can't imagine not drinking it for the rest of my life now. I can't even taste the saltiness any more, it's just a great drink that feels kinda magical when i drink it. Any and all water I drink is made by the himmy, topped up with filtered water and some cordial juice, the healthy kind.

Right i am offski, serry is kicking in now and soon it will be doing a mr narc on my *** (which has been a good little bastward today), i'm feeling it already..

hope everyone is doing well...eyes all sleepy now, xmas over soon thank fluck!!
Merry xmas to all who celebrate it, have a lovely day. I think i'm going to do a recreational dose of vally and do about 10 energy tablets and just have a one man party here and mix some tunes and have a few beers


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## Gillman fan

What you are talking about re: lowered attraction is considered a sexual side effect, lowered libido. Of course having a normal libido isn't helpful if anxiety paralyzes you and prevents social interaction in the first place. Did you try Agmatine? May help here.

Regarding wakefulness - the best stimulants are prescription only IMO. You could try some nootropics. But also try caffeine. If you do not notice any effects from caffeine, try a higher dose. I take 200 mg caffeine pills, nothing less has any effect on me. 

Another way of combatting fatigue may be bright light therapy. I cannot GUARANTEE this will work for you, but it is cheap and side effect free. Your need for sleep in the afternoon may be linked to your perceived need for only 6 hours of sleep. Try bright light therapy for 1 hour before bedtime and give yourself 8 hours to sleep (i.e. if you need to wake up at 6, go to bed at 10). Light before bed delays the sleep phase. See how this goes, if it doesn't work add more bright light directly before you get tired in the afternoon.

I have posted about this in detail elsewhere and do not really want to post in detail in the theory, the neurochemical processes, the studies etc. because ultimately it boils down to "give it a try and see if it works;" it isn't going to harm you, and it does not require your doctor's approval.


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## SFC01

Gillman fan said:


> Regarding wakefulness - the best stimulants are prescription only IMO. You could try some nootropics. But also try caffeine. If you do not notice any effects from caffeine, try a higher dose. I take 200 mg caffeine pills, nothing less has any effect on me.


Phenylpiracetam can be resonably stimulating but it does build tolerance.

GF - dont know if you saw my post on Greg W's parnate thread ? Took some modafinil during the day last week and it completely stopped any effect whatsoever from 80mg of dexamphetamine - which usually gives me a proper right old buzz. Was well pissed off . Just thought id mention.


----------



## V1bzz

sming said:


> Thanks for the rec. I've requested it from my PDoc.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Mirtazapine is also really good for sleep....but also for stone junkie type munchies.. ko you about an hour after taking, seroquel seems a bit faster acting, maybe 30 mins for me, i think it doesn't last long though, the same as mirt, you get used to it. mirtazapine is an ssri though, i put 2 stone on it.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Phenylpiracetam can be resonably stimulating but it does build tolerance.
> 
> GF - dont know if you saw my post on Greg W's parnate thread ? Took some modafinil during the day last week and it completely stopped any effect whatsoever from 80mg of dexamphetamine - which usually gives me a proper right old buzz. Was well pissed off . Just thought id mention.


gunna have to google dexy now lol :mum


----------



## Gillman fan

That is very consistent with the theory that Modafinil works as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor....

You see, dexamphetamine empties the storage shed so all the dopamine molecules can attend the party at the house. Modafinil has a separate approach, it locks all the dopamine inside the house and they are not allowed to go to sleep in the storage shed. But if the shed is already empty, dexamphetamine has nothing to do!

Substitute "vesicle" for "storage shed" and substitute "neuronal cleft" for party house and you have a very shoddy explanation of how neurotransmitter releasers and reuptake inhibitors have oppositional mechanisms of action.


----------



## SFC01

Gillman fan said:


> That is very consistent with the theory that Modafinil works as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor....
> 
> You see, dexamphetamine empties the storage shed so all the dopamine molecules can attend the party at the house. Modafinil has a separate approach, it locks all the dopamine inside the house and they are not allowed to go to sleep in the storage shed. But if the shed is already empty, dexamphetamine has nothing to do!
> 
> Substitute "vesicle" for "storage shed" and substitute "neuronal cleft" for party house and you have a very shoddy explanation of how neurotransmitter releasers and reuptake inhibitors have oppositional mechanisms of action.


You could have told me earlier mate :grin2:

Thanks for the simple explanation - there was literally no effect from the dex at all.

It was like my younger recreational days, all excited to get some drugs, only for them to not work !!


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## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> You could have told me earlier mate :grin2:
> 
> Thanks for the simple explanation - there was literally no effect from the dex at all.
> 
> It was like my younger recreational days, all excited to get some drugs, only for them to not work !!


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## V1bzz

Merry xmas all!

Lee xx


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## RCMC

V1bzz said:


> Merry xmas all!
> 
> Lee xx


Happy X'MAS:grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## sming

V1bzz said:


> Mirtazapine is also really good for sleep....but also for stone junkie type munchies.. ko you about an hour after taking, seroquel seems a bit faster acting, maybe 30 mins for me, i think it doesn't last long though, the same as mirt, you get used to it. mirtazapine is an ssri though, i put 2 stone on it.


you're not wrong. The combination of Nardil + Seroquel had me eating dinner and then 2 bowls of cereal not 2 hours later. Gah - I'll be needing a new wardrobe at this rate...


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## AtlantaPhobic

sming said:


> you're not wrong. The combination of Nardil + Seroquel had me eating dinner and then 2 bowls of cereal not 2 hours later. Gah - I'll be needing a new wardrobe at this rate...


I get this on just Nardil - cereal yummy!


----------



## V1bzz

I stopped having cereal, milk in particular when i started nardil, maybe this is where i have gone wrong? figured it would be an interaction thing, just have milk in my tea.

I had a weird experience yesterday, came home, opened a bottle of cider, set up my decks, made a roll up, started munching on some peanut M&M's an the next thing I know I woke up on my bed, 5 hrs had passed, crunched up M&M's still in my mouth not swallowed, dribbled all over my bed and pillow and a massively pumped big blister on my leg just above my right knee.

what the fluck happened there I do not know!


----------



## V1bzz

Well I have woken up at 0340 wanting to get up and crack on with the day, wondering if 'that phase' is back @SFC01
Would prefer if it was an hour later but hey ho off to work i go soon, just getting ready really slowly.

To be fair I did sleep until about 1300 yesterday afternoon. Last time I had this phase I think it was 0530 I used to get up with waking up around this time wanting to gt up but forcing myself to sleep a bit more. It was summer too so got to watch the sun come up and hear the birds singing and sh1t.

Noticed again last couple of days i'm really starting to crave the ole junk food again.

Shame I don't have any moddy to get right on it, got a ton of caffeine tabs though, will drop 5 shortly. i'm aiming to get into work about 0530, i think any earlier and they will think i've lost the plot lol!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I stopped having cereal, milk in particular when i started nardil, maybe this is where i have gone wrong? figured it would be an interaction thing, just have milk in my tea.
> 
> I had a weird experience yesterday, came home, opened a bottle of cider, set up my decks, made a roll up, started munching on some peanut M&M's an the next thing I know I woke up on my bed, 5 hrs had passed, crunched up M&M's still in my mouth not swallowed, dribbled all over my bed and pillow and a massively pumped big blister on my leg just above my right knee.
> 
> what the fluck happened there I do not know!


:O


----------



## Tandorini

I'm still at 45 mg. Don't have the need to nap during daytime anymore. Was at work today, and was able to do a lot more physical work than I usually can handle since being on Nardil.

I do get headaches though, ever since going down to 45 mg. Suppose it's a withdrawal symptom. Also, my dreams are quite vivid, bordering on nightmares. And I do tend to ruminate/think a bit more than I did a few weeks ago. I hope it doesn't get any worse. I really would like to stay at 45 mg, or even lower. 

Felt so good today I told my boss I could work both Saturday and Sunday night. 1. I haven't done a complete evening shift ever since starting Nardil. 2. I am always in addition the the other staff, this weekend I won't be. 3. I usually don't work two days in a row, as I get too worn out. But I felt good today, energywise. Hope I can do these two shifts without too much trouble.

When I first started Nardil, I noticed myself falling asleep easier, and also I went from falling asleep on my back to falling asleep on my stomach. So now I've been sleeping on my stomach since March or so, getting used to that. Now, however, after going from 60 to 45 mg, I have noticed that I sometimes sleep on my back. Nardil is the weirdest drug. 

Also have a decreased appetite since going down to 45. Could be several things - slight nausea from withdrawal or rather that my appetite was increased on 60 mg, and I am now more back to normal.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> the next thing I know I woke up on my bed, 5 hrs had passed,


I did something similar once, I had taken lyrica, research chemical stimulants and benzos - one minute it was Saturday night and I was sat in my armchair watching TV, the next minute, it was 9AM on a Monday morning and me in the same position. Was well gutted when I realised it was Monday and not Sunday morning


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

I still have the sweet and carb cravings on Nardil after over 60 days. I don't get very tired during the day but I also drink at least three cups of coffee. I seem to get lots of energy at nighttime which is countered by 25mg of Seroquel to sleep. I can sleep naturally but usually wake up a lot. Insomnia for me seems to come and go.

So far I haven't gained weight as I limit myself on most days to just a big dinner and a bedtime snack. Seroquel at this low dose doesn't make me hungry at night. I also workout four times a week.

I do have some bloat in the belly for Nardil as I look a bit fatter there than I used to even at a good weight. I hope this will go away but it isn't too bad. I'm married anyways.


----------



## V1bzz

Question for @SFC01 @watertouch @Gillman fan

Is serry (seroquel) the best anti psychotic for helping depression, feeling happier and anxiety, paranoia etc.
I'm still at a very low dose of 50mg each night but will be starting 75mg from tonight.

I just feel like atypical antipsychotics are the only choices I have to take with Nardil from my Pdoc....are they the only meds that don't interact with MAOI's or something?

I have tried asking for low doses of triclictics but he doesn't seem to want to go there. He does say he wants Nardil to get back into my system fully again though since the restart, it's been 4 weeks now I think.

I see him again soon, any other suggestions I could ask for?


----------



## V1bzz

AtlantaPhobic said:


> I still have the sweet and carb cravings on Nardil after over 60 days. I don't get very tired during the day but I also drink at least three cups of coffee. I seem to get lots of energy at nighttime which is countered by 25mg of Seroquel to sleep. I can sleep naturally but usually wake up a lot. Insomnia for me seems to come and go.
> 
> So far I haven't gained weight as I limit myself on most days to just a big dinner and a bedtime snack. Seroquel at this low dose doesn't make me hungry at night. I also workout four times a week.
> 
> I do have some bloat in the belly for Nardil as I look a bit fatter there than I used to even at a good weight. I hope this will go away but it isn't too bad. I'm married anyways.


I think it does slowly go after time, mine completely went and i could see what abs i had left from the 6 pack i used to have (not much). This time on nardil I haven't had craving for chocolate and stuff, I have though just began to get it from the serry. I'm very active in my job and am now trying little slow jogs once in a while, it still hurts to do it properly though on my ankles.

I have defo come a long way since stopping and restarting pain wise. I din't know if you read much of this thread but walking at one point on my journey was exhausting from muscle fatigue and the sheer pain. 
Water retention in my lower legs has come back a little but nothing like it used to be. Used to be able tp push my finger an inch deep to the bone. This is all before I had a doctor that cared about my well being. 
It took me 9 months to get any kind of support network in place. My pains and problems were totally ignored by my medical practice for that whole time with them refusing to help, see me or do anything at all.

I reported them in the end to the NHS complaints committee and they lied through their teeth about the whole thing. My next step is to take it to an Ombudsman but I just feel like the stress with all of that may be best just forgotten so I can get well and not be so stressed fighting a hard battle I will probably loose. They faked appointments and referrals to pdocs and everything, saying I refused all help. 
@SFC01 can you believe that ****? lol


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Question for @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Gillman fan*
> 
> Is serry (seroquel) the best anti psychotic for helping depression, feeling happier and anxiety, paranoia etc.
> I'm still at a very low dose of 50mg each night but will be starting 75mg from tonight.
> 
> I just feel like atypical antipsychotics are the only choices I have to take with Nardil from my Pdoc....are they the only meds that don't interact with MAOI's or something?
> 
> I have tried asking for low doses of triclictics but he doesn't seem to want to go there. He does say he wants Nardil to get back into my system fully again though since the restart, it's been 4 weeks now I think.
> 
> I see him again soon, any other suggestions I could ask for?


Hi! long time no see.

For me the Quetiapine at 25mg had an effect on the stimulating effects on Parnate after day 1... Then it just went downhill, and i needed atleast 75mg or so with Benzo to sleep...

I don't think quetiapine should be used by anyone that are having the core symptoms of Dopamine deficency eg poor excecutive function, low drive, anhedonia, and so on....


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Would just like to add how massively worried i am about @*watertouch* - we need to hear from you brother, good or bad, if bad times we can help you through it. Just talk to us!


Hi mate thanks for asking, been meaning to check in since October but have been just feeling so down and introvert that basicly i only have the energy to check the TV-guide....(and yes ive been feeling like an A-hole for not reporting that im atleast alive)....

I have no idea really what have happen, but i haven't been this "introvert" since 2008 or such....

If i would guess i think that Quetiapine have done something to the whole dopamine and arousal parts of my brain, otherwise the whole "torture" from the psych/health department have probable taken a toll on me ( was recomended to end my life 3 times when seeing the GP in May).
.
Was blackmailed to quit benzo to get my antidepressive med back since the beginning of the year, 
Cold-turkey stoped Xanax 4mg/day, in april, took until late August to get back Parnate....

I basicly just have the mental energy to check the TV-guide, Im Introvert and "asocical" to the point i don't even answer my twinbros sms....


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Question for @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Gillman fan*
> 
> Is serry (seroquel) the best anti psychotic for helping depression, feeling happier and anxiety, paranoia etc.
> I'm still at a very low dose of 50mg each night but will be starting 75mg from tonight.
> 
> I just feel like atypical antipsychotics are the only choices I have to take with Nardil from my Pdoc....are they the only meds that don't interact with MAOI's or something?
> 
> I have tried asking for low doses of triclictics but he doesn't seem to want to go there. He does say he wants Nardil to get back into my system fully again though since the restart, it's been 4 weeks now I think.
> 
> I see him again soon, any other suggestions I could ask for?


As far as I know, Seroquel is the most common to use for depression. It's good for bipolar depression, but also other depressive conditions. The thing is, you need to get up to maybe 300 mg to get the antidepressive effect of Seroquel. If you have a lot of trouble sleeping you could use the instant release, but if sleeping is not a problem, the extended release might be a better option. You could also choose a combination of the two. I was at 200 XR and 200 IR for some time.


----------



## Tandorini

I did my first full evening shift as a "normal" member of the staff yesterday, and I was not utterly exhausted! Going from 60 to 45 mg was a great thing for me. I am doing another full evening shift tonight. I feel just so different physically than I did before. I bike to and from work (less than 2 kilometres, though), and even had the energy left to shower standing up, washing my hair and everything after work. I really, really hope this is how it's going to be from now on. I know the side effects go away before the effect does, but I have been at 45 mg for 4 weeks already, so I really hope my mood won't get worse.

After work yesterday I really started feeling optimistic about the chances of me going back to normal employment again.


----------



## RCMC

Tandorini said:


> I did my first full evening shift as a "normal" member of the staff yesterday, and I was not utterly exhausted! Going from 60 to 45 mg was a great thing for me. I am doing another full evening shift tonight. I feel just so different physically than I did before. I bike to and from work (less than 2 kilometres, though), and even had the energy left to shower standing up, washing my hair and everything after work. I really, really hope this is how it's going to be from now on. I know the side effects go away before the effect does, but I have been at 45 mg for 4 weeks already, so I really hope my mood won't get worse.
> 
> After work yesterday I really started feeling optimistic about the chances of me going back to normal employment again.


Maybe 45mg dosage is enough to cure you to be normal person again. It needs to take the 4 whole week time for your brain to adjust.


----------



## Gillman fan

Tandorini said:


> As far as I know, Seroquel is the most common to use for depression. It's good for bipolar depression, but also other depressive conditions. The thing is, you need to get up to maybe 300 mg to get the antidepressive effect of Seroquel. If you have a lot of trouble sleeping you could use the instant release, but if sleeping is not a problem, the extended release might be a better option. You could also choose a combination of the two. I was at 200 XR and 200 IR for some time.


I am not going to opine on antipsychotics, as I do not think they should be prescribed unless you have bipolar or schizophrenia, and even for bipolar I question their use in maintenance.

If you want more information, just read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic#Comparison_of_medications

Forums are a good source for answering simple questions. But V1 I am going to reiterate that your problems are not simple, and you need to do more to take charge of what is going on with your doctor.

Let me give you one example: remember how I suggested you type up a list of medications that you have tried, current issues, etc. etc.? Put your name on it and a date, and give a physical copy to your doctor. By doing this you are doing two things:
1. You are creating a paper trail. This will provide evidence to the ombudsman that you did in fact complain of or mention X problem to your doctor.
2. Your doctor may be doing a poor job of keeping track of what is going on. This will help them.

Also preparing questions for when you meet with your doctor can help to direct the "flow" of the conversation. Rather than throwing up your hands about the whole anti-psychotic issue, ask your doctor "why am I being prescribed an anti-psychotic when I have experienced EPS?" and "are there any alternatives to an anti-psychotic?"

It sounds as if you are fighting "the system." Aside from the issues of which meds would work best in an ideal circumstance, you should use every means at your disposal to even things out vis a vis your doctor.

I passed the bar and practiced as an attorney for a while. Believe me, having things in writing makes an enormous difference. Right now you are going to these meetings with your mind addled, mood up and down, etc. and your doctor is the only one writing things down. But when you have the focus try writing down questions.

ALSO - after your meetings with your doctor just do a follow up e-mail. Like "Just to recap we met and discussed XYZ, you wanted me to increase ABC med and set up a meeting on 11/11/17. Is there anything important I left out?"

NOW you are creating a paper trail. Your doctor has the burden of communicating to you clearly what is going on and why. Also, beyond "fighting the system," consider the possibility that you and your doctor may have communication failures from time to time. Perhaps it is his fault and the fault of "the system," but you can do more to improve your outcome too.

I still think you should talk to Dr. Gillman and do a total med review.

I am kind of repeating myself here, you asked about anti-psychotics and instead I am saying you should do all this other crap. I want to be helpful, but I really doubt switching anti-psychotic is going to be a miracle for you. Everyone wants a good end result, but oftentimes even with the best doctor it takes trial and error to get there. You need to think about the long term and be prepared to continue getting bad results for a while until you hit on the right formula.


----------



## Tandorini

Gillman fan said:


> I am not going to opine on antipsychotics, as I do not think they should be prescribed unless you have bipolar or schizophrenia, and even for bipolar I question their use in maintenance.
> 
> If you want more information, just read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic#Comparison_of_medications
> 
> Forums are a good source for answering simple questions. But V1 I am going to reiterate that your problems are not simple, and you need to do more to take charge of what is going on with your doctor.
> 
> Let me give you one example: remember how I suggested you type up a list of medications that you have tried, current issues, etc. etc.? Put your name on it and a date, and give a physical copy to your doctor. By doing this you are doing two things:
> 1. You are creating a paper trail. This will provide evidence to the ombudsman that you did in fact complain of or mention X problem to your doctor.
> 2. Your doctor may be doing a poor job of keeping track of what is going on. This will help them.
> 
> Also preparing questions for when you meet with your doctor can help to direct the "flow" of the conversation. Rather than throwing up your hands about the whole anti-psychotic issue, ask your doctor "why am I being prescribed an anti-psychotic when I have experienced EPS?" and "are there any alternatives to an anti-psychotic?"
> 
> It sounds as if you are fighting "the system." Aside from the issues of which meds would work best in an ideal circumstance, you should use every means at your disposal to even things out vis a vis your doctor.
> 
> I passed the bar and practiced as an attorney for a while. Believe me, having things in writing makes an enormous difference. Right now you are going to these meetings with your mind addled, mood up and down, etc. and your doctor is the only one writing things down. But when you have the focus try writing down questions.
> 
> ALSO - after your meetings with your doctor just do a follow up e-mail. Like "Just to recap we met and discussed XYZ, you wanted me to increase ABC med and set up a meeting on 11/11/17. Is there anything important I left out?"
> 
> NOW you are creating a paper trail. Your doctor has the burden of communicating to you clearly what is going on and why. Also, beyond "fighting the system," consider the possibility that you and your doctor may have communication failures from time to time. Perhaps it is his fault and the fault of "the system," but you can do more to improve your outcome too.
> 
> I still think you should talk to Dr. Gillman and do a total med review.
> 
> I am kind of repeating myself here, you asked about anti-psychotics and instead I am saying you should do all this other crap. I want to be helpful, but I really doubt switching anti-psychotic is going to be a miracle for you. Everyone wants a good end result, but oftentimes even with the best doctor it takes trial and error to get there. You need to think about the long term and be prepared to continue getting bad results for a while until you hit on the right formula.


Was this answer meant for @V1bzz?

I am quite happy with my meds at the moment.


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Hi mate thanks for asking, been meaning to check in since October but have been just feeling so down and introvert that basicly i only have the energy to check the TV-guide....(and yes ive been feeling like an A-hole for not reporting that im atleast alive)....
> 
> I have no idea really what have happen, but i haven't been this "introvert" since 2008 or such....
> 
> If i would guess i think that Quetiapine have done something to the whole dopamine and arousal parts of my brain, otherwise the whole "torture" from the psych/health department have probable taken a toll on me ( was recomended to end my life 3 times when seeing the GP in May).
> .
> Was blackmailed to quit benzo to get my antidepressive med back since the beginning of the year,
> Cold-turkey stoped Xanax 4mg/day, in april, took until late August to get back Parnate....
> 
> I basicly just have the mental energy to check the TV-guide, Im Introvert and "asocical" to the point i don't even answer my twinbros sms....


Good to see you back mate, yes we were worried so don't do it again please!
Sounds like you are having a bit of a rough time at the moment mate, just always know we are all here for you brother!
a shoulder to cry on, a pick me up, whatever. just let us know how you are and maybe we can help in some way.
We are here to listen and maybe give an opinion that might help change your mindset and help a little, know what i mean? also we could just go destroy some threads with nonsense too lol. that's gotta be some good therapy on its own right there.

Happy new year to all my fellow warriors, we fight every day the hardest of battles, but we do it, because we are stronger than we think and we will win :wink2::nerd::yes


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> I am not going to opine on antipsychotics, as I do not think they should be prescribed unless you have bipolar or schizophrenia, and even for bipolar I question their use in maintenance.
> 
> If you want more information, just read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic#Comparison_of_medications
> 
> Forums are a good source for answering simple questions. But V1 I am going to reiterate that your problems are not simple, and you need to do more to take charge of what is going on with your doctor.
> 
> Let me give you one example: remember how I suggested you type up a list of medications that you have tried, current issues, etc. etc.? Put your name on it and a date, and give a physical copy to your doctor. By doing this you are doing two things:
> 1. You are creating a paper trail. This will provide evidence to the ombudsman that you did in fact complain of or mention X problem to your doctor.
> 2. Your doctor may be doing a poor job of keeping track of what is going on. This will help them.
> 
> Also preparing questions for when you meet with your doctor can help to direct the "flow" of the conversation. Rather than throwing up your hands about the whole anti-psychotic issue, ask your doctor "why am I being prescribed an anti-psychotic when I have experienced EPS?" and "are there any alternatives to an anti-psychotic?"
> 
> It sounds as if you are fighting "the system." Aside from the issues of which meds would work best in an ideal circumstance, you should use every means at your disposal to even things out vis a vis your doctor.
> 
> I passed the bar and practiced as an attorney for a while. Believe me, having things in writing makes an enormous difference. Right now you are going to these meetings with your mind addled, mood up and down, etc. and your doctor is the only one writing things down. But when you have the focus try writing down questions.
> 
> ALSO - after your meetings with your doctor just do a follow up e-mail. Like "Just to recap we met and discussed XYZ, you wanted me to increase ABC med and set up a meeting on 11/11/17. Is there anything important I left out?"
> 
> NOW you are creating a paper trail. Your doctor has the burden of communicating to you clearly what is going on and why. Also, beyond "fighting the system," consider the possibility that you and your doctor may have communication failures from time to time. Perhaps it is his fault and the fault of "the system," but you can do more to improve your outcome too.
> 
> I still think you should talk to Dr. Gillman and do a total med review.
> 
> I am kind of repeating myself here, you asked about anti-psychotics and instead I am saying you should do all this other crap. I want to be helpful, but I really doubt switching anti-psychotic is going to be a miracle for you. Everyone wants a good end result, but oftentimes even with the best doctor it takes trial and error to get there. You need to think about the long term and be prepared to continue getting bad results for a while until you hit on the right formula.


I am on an anti psychotic mate because for the last month or two it was quite common for me to have thoughts of wrapping my van around a tree without any emotion being involved. I was stopping my van in the middle of the road just to go threaten the driver behind. I threatened a guy that if he didn't shut the fluck up i would go over and snap his neck while punching the side of my van full force. Wanting to hurt people who annoyed me i the slightest way, a total psycho....i think that's why they put me on it lol. it has stopped all that behaviour too but i do still have out bursts. I just wanted to know if the was a more effective med that would lift my mood too, with anti depressive qualities.

I am missing my valium right now, I used to take 10mg every morning before work which kept me calm and stopped me getting uber stressed scanning sorting then scanning and numbering then loading my wagon every morning. That used to be a high stress event for me. I will speak to the pdcoc soon and ask for a more effective benzo in the morning, if only i could bloody remember when the appointment is!!.

I got sucker punched last night and hit on the side of the head with a bottle, i just laughed at the guy that done it who was dancing around waiting for me to retaliate with his 5 mates backing him up, i cracked up, told him he should get on strictly come dancing and would probably win with those moves then walked off. A month or two ago that guy would probably be dead now as i would have punched him in the throat, palmed him in the breast bone pressure point and probably dropped an elbow on his throat.

I am currently finding out where he lives as he will get a visit from me one day when i am in the mood, i know where he lives, just don't know the house number. see how the bad boy wanna be fares sober against the lunatic version of me.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I got sucker punched last night and hit on the side of the head with a bottle,


Aaah, the joys of going to the pub in England on NYE, or any night for that matter !!

You done well leaving it mate - at our age, with years of experience going to pubs at the weekend - we know its no fun rolling around on the concrete with some "hard ****" moron who wants a pop at you.


----------



## V1bzz

I had to stop taking that serry. The itching...OMFG...for a person with eczema it was just hell...I already take antihistamines to stop me itching....I couldn't even take a shower without needing to rip my legs and back apart...I've never had eczema on my back my whole life.

Wish I could just go back on triffy, that was good sh1t but the RLS that came with it was just nasty.

It's looking like I just can't feckin win!!

Any of you guys tried Hydroxyzine?

I think i will speak to the pdoc about trying parnate next time i see him, 50% better on average isn't good enough for me, yes my anxiety and well being is much improved on nardil but i'm still not well enough to make a life for myself socially. I was a shaking wreck when i went out new years eve, couldn't speak properly, was paranoid etc etc, usual sh1t. Had to guzzle me down some alcohol sharpish just to be able to feel more at ease. joke is I have to get totally wasted to feel nothing then i have a week of mental torture to deal with because of it....hence me rarely drinking and having no social life what so ever!!


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp - there was me bragging about losing a side effect every time I stopped, guess what's kicked in today for me? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 

I swear I've never had anorgasmia at 45 mg ever....maybe it is still kicking in and working better this time.

Gutted but also a little bit filled with hope that maybe this time it will work 100% for me!! 

Man just the thought of getting back how i felt for those 3 days. I thought i was at 45 and thats what i was gunna get then this suddenly kicks in, a little yesterday and bam totally today.

Wish I had kept track of how many weeks i've been on it again (update - 8 weeks today)


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

V1bzz said:


> Hi all, I have had to make this thread because I have not been able to find anythinelse on the forum of people feeling like I do on Nardil.
> I'm on my 6th dose of 45mg and every day I just feel horrible on it, I feel high but not in a good way. I have no energy. My pupils are tiny. The feelings are similar to how I felt once the days after an overdose and this worries me.
> 
> Do I need to stop taking this med? or do i just need to chill and let it get into my system.
> 
> It's got so bad now where I don't think I should even drive my car now. I stumble about. It takes me ages to write stuff online as I have to keep checking my spelling for the frequent mistake. I just totally feel on edge and unwell at the moment.
> 
> I don't want to give up on this and won't because i want to get well, just need to know this is not unusual and it will pass.
> 
> Thanks to anyone who replies.


Without reading much in this thread I'll just say that there are some people that this med works great for than there are some people who may feel really bad side effects from it. If you can try to cope then great but if it still makes you feel worse even at higher dosages I would try something else maybe like Parnate or something.


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01



Code:


<iframe width="100%" height="120" src="https://www.mixcloud.com/widget/iframe/?hide_cover=1&feed=%2FV1bzz%2Fv1bzz-whole-lotta-gotta-house-set-dec-2017%2F" frameborder="0" ></iframe>

grr can't get it to post so here's the link - https://www.mixcloud.com/V1bzz/v1bzz-whole-lotta-gotta-house-set-dec-2017/


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> <iframe width="100%" height="120" src="https://www.mixcloud.com/widget/iframe/?hide_cover=1&feed=%2FV1bzz%2Fv1bzz-whole-lotta-gotta-house-set-dec-2017%2F" frameborder="0" ></iframe>
> 
> grr can't get it to post so here's the link - https://www.mixcloud.com/V1bzz/v1bzz-whole-lotta-gotta-house-set-dec-2017/


Cheers mate, I'll whack it on tonight during my work out !!

Everything ok with you ?


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

thelastsamurai said:


> Without reading much in this thread I'll just say that there are some people that this med works great for than there are some people who may feel really bad side effects from it. If you can try to cope then great but if it still makes you feel worse even at higher dosages I would try something else maybe like Parnate or something.


Very true. At 90mg I don't seem to have side effects as bad as I've read on here but man the total sexual dysfunction sucks right now. Really hoping it goes away eventually as I'm useless as a male (better than the anxiety for sure but still!)


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Cheers mate, I'll whack it on tonight during my work out !!
> 
> Everything ok with you ?


so so mate, been feeling pretty fed up for a few weeks, worse since new yrs eve realising how bad my anxiety and paranoia and things still were. That realisation set me back a bit.

I have a work do on the 20th which people want me to go to but as you can imagine i'm nervous about it and kinda making excuses already, just don't want to feel how i felt at new yrs eve and have shaky hands and find it hard to speak (and this was with 90% family)

Just still got a long *** way to go, I have Pdoc on Monday and i'm pushing to give parnate a try. I'm just not sure what else he can give me to go with nardil, he seems major hesitant on many things folks pdocs on this forum get given.

How are you getting on? also was wondering about @Tandorini and @WillComp now on the 45mg? hows that going?

hope all that post here are doing good!


----------



## V1bzz

Anyone here know much about PC specs?

My laptop died, bought a piece of **** to last me a couple of weeks but it cant handle fl studio or rekordbox for mixing and such, its such a *****.

Im going to hit my VAT rebate and be naughty to get a decent laptop/pc. i'm stuck between these two. what should i do?????

This but with 16gb ram and 240gb SSD - https://microdream.co.uk/apple-imac...V_v2kl2uCU3Hd1lXejkaAvYZEALw_wcB#.WlkMGKhl_IW

Or this just as it comes...
https://www.johnlewis.com/lenovo-id...gb-256gb-ssd-14-full-hd-mineral-grey/p3270060

With the upgrades added to the first mac pc it's about the same price as the laptop. HELP!


----------



## V1bzz

Gotta be the mac pc right?


----------



## Wrong Galaxy

Does Nardil make you gain weight? I gained tonnes with Escitalopram


----------



## V1bzz

Wrong Galaxy said:


> Does Nardil make you gain weight? I gained tonnes with Escitalopram


Yeah it does unfortunately, also gives you a huge swollen pot belly!


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

Wrong Galaxy said:


> Does Nardil make you gain weight? I gained tonnes with Escitalopram


Depends - I do have the belly bloat at 90mg but I haven't really gained much actual weight as I watch what I eat and go to the gym. For a few months I had extreme carb and sweet cravings that I had to work hard to control or I would have blown up.

Thankfully, these have also gone away with most other side effects now about 80 days into Nardil. Great thing about Nardil is the side effects do pass for most if you stick with it. With SSRI's they didn't seem to go away and also didn't work for anxiety.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> also was wondering about @*Tandorini* and @*WillComp* now on the 45mg? hows that going?
> 
> hope all that post here are doing good!


Thanks for asking. I actually feel good. I am feeling better than I have been feeling since before this whole thing started, I think. It's only been the past few days that I've been feeling better, so I don't know if it will last. Hopefully it will. I'm thinking maybe I was overmedicated on 60 mg (if they'd done blood tests to see the serum concentration of Nardil it probably would have helped us more towards the right dosage). Well, I probably needed the 60 mg for some time, as it did elevate my mood. But now that I have been feeling okay for quite some time, I believe that the fatigue was actually keeping me back. Now that I am down to 45 mg I have so much more energy. It's incredible. I am able to work more, I helped out with my sister's newborn for 4 days (they just moved, and they just had their baby four weeks prematurly, so they really did appreciate the help), living there with them. I went to bed as the last one, and I was up to make breakfast and care for the baby in the morning. I unpacked moving boxes, organized cupboards, did laundry, walked the dog, put the crib together, bought nappies. I was actively doing something probably 14-15 hours a day. I got exhausted, but I didn't get the fatigue. I didn't get pale and nasceaus (someone needs to teach me how to spell that someday) and without strength. I was doing better than they were.

I was scared before I saw the baby. I was afrad I wouldn't be able to feel anything. I don't think I felt as much as people who are not depressed do. But I noticed, after leaving, that I miss having the litte creature sleeping on my belly, cuddling him and taking care of him. And when I ordered plane tickets for the weekend after next, I felt a bit of joy and excitement, I think. The thought of seing him again, and being able to help. And not having to be afraid of not being able to help. To get too exhausted.

I went through the spare room and collected stuff for charity yesterday, walking down to the store with the stuff. I have been doing a lot of stuff you only do if you have the time and energy for it. Because now I do.

I have been spending a lot of time at my friends house over the past few months. Just staying there with her and her family, as it helps time pass, and I like their company. But this weekend, I felt like just staying at home instead. Had stuff to do, and might just relax in front of the television after. This is unlike me, except that it isn't. It's just unlike the depressed me. I think there is some change going on now, really. I am not just "not that depressed". I have an increasing feeling of interest in different areas in life.

I thought I was doing okay at work too, as long as I didn't work too long hours. But the past couple of weeks I have noticed I am doing even better. I am quicker, both in movement and in "come-backs". Showing a lot more humour, being able to give more care for the patient, not just do the technical stuff around them.

Actually, writing this all down didn't make it feel much more real, or even make me expectant of the future. Maybe I'm overthinking things. Maybe I am just having a few good days. But then again, a year ago there was no good days.

In just three weeks time it will be exactly one year ago my failed suicide attempt. I think a lot about what happened on this day and that day, a year ago, two years ago. So really, this is a bad time for me. But still, I am doing okay.

Seeing the pdoc tomorrow. Don't have much to talk to him about, I think. Well, he'll ask me if I want to reduce to 30 mg, I suppose. But I think I'll stick to 45. Even though I am curious for 30 mg, I am doing so well right now I might as well take my time. Besides, the psychologist is very stricht with the whole "doing one thing at a time"-thing, not wanting to work therapeutically with me at the same time as I am changing my meds. So in order to get any progress in therapy I will have to stick to the dose for now.


----------



## Tandorini

Wrong Galaxy said:


> Does Nardil make you gain weight? I gained tonnes with Escitalopram


I got terrible sugar cravings at 75 mg. At 60 mg I probably did eat some more sweets than I usually do. Now that I'm down to 45 mg I don't feel the sugar cravings anymore. I mean, I still eat some, but not the cravings I used to get.

I did gain some weight at 75 mg, but ever since I went down to 45 mg I have been losing some again. But then again - it has been Christmas time, who doesn't gain a few during the holidays.


----------



## V1bzz

Sounds like you are doing awesome. You sound really upbeat and much happier and motivated than I have ever seen. Sounds like you have found your nardil sweet spot!

Me? I'm miserable at the moment. Feeling really depressed. Ruminating over things. Thinking people at work are conspiring against me. Waking up in a bad mood and feeling like crying through out the day. I don't feel like working anymore or talking to anyone or doing anything. I feel paranoid and am spelling words in my head again. I just feel really sick and just want to sit and stare at a blank wall all day.

My pdoc gave me parnate today and I feel nothing. I feel no hope or excitement about ever getting better. I feel like I have to just get used to this miserable life again. Single with no friends being alone and unhappy for the rest of my life.


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## V1bzz

I'm going g to be on 20mg. 1 in morning and 2nd early afternoon. Pdoc made it clear he will not allow me to go higher than 30mg which kinda sucks. 30mg is a low dose isn't it? @SFC01 can you tell me what to expect mate when that first dose kicks in?
I'm hoping to get it at 1430 today or it will be there tomorrow.
I remember nardil made me feel flucked and bad. I have to do this switch while working and driving a van. I'm back at work tomorrow. Used to quite enjoy going to work, feel like I just can't be bothered with it all at the moment.
Oh doc wanted me to stop nardil for 3 days before starting parnate but I ain't waiting!


----------



## V1bzz

I took 10mg at 3pm then decided to have a nap. It woke me up when it kicked in and it made it hard to stay asleep from that point on, a buzzed up sleep. I slept until 6pm so I guess I did sleep but it was just weird sleep. My muscles felt really good though when I moved. I remember at points my heart pumping really hard.
Since getting up I feel kinda normal but not exactly. My traps are super tense and my muscles overall feel fatigued. It was my intention to try and sleep through the first dose to keep everything in a calmed state as I was a bit worried because I also did 45mg nardil this morning.
Tomorrow will be the complete switch to parnate. One at about 0620 and one at lunch time. I will also stop the diazepam as I need it to work Saturday if I am able to push myself to go to a late Xmas work do. I also still have serry if I need it. May take half a one just for the first few days cos it knocks me the fluck out when I take that sh1t.

I guess tomorrow will be the day to see how it affects me and while working too. So will update here if I have the energy.


----------



## RosencrantzLives

30 mg is a pretty low dose for Parnate. There's a study showing it was effective against panic attacks at 30 mg, but had no significant effects on social anxiety until 60 mg. 

Still, I think you'll find that even at 30 mg, Parnate will slowly start to help your mood.


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## CaptainPeanuts

Forgot to mention I had a bad experience with drinking dark beer. My heart started pounding and needed to get an ice pack. It lasted about 25 mins and I was good to go afterwards. On 60mg's make sure oyu guys really watch the Tyramine. 

The other thing I read somewhere is that on a dosage this high you can feel like you want to faint once in awhile. I find it mostly when I take Nardil first thing in the morning, while shopping first thing I almost wanted to lay down in the supermarket just to regain consciousness. I managed it, without doing that. I think taking 30 mg's first then 30 mg's later is smarter. 

Just googling these symptoms I can find other people going through the same thing. Google everything guys, you'd be amazed at what you would find.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

There is great information on Dr. Bob's forum as well as here. For beer stay with something light in a bottle like Heineken.


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## sming

thelastsamurai said:


> Forgot to mention I had a bad experience with drinking dark beer. My heart started pounding and needed to get an ice pack. It lasted about 25 mins and I was good to go afterwards. On 60mg's make sure oyu guys really watch the Tyramine.
> 
> The other thing I read somewhere is that on a dosage this high you can feel like you want to faint once in awhile. I find it mostly when I take Nardil first thing in the morning, while shopping first thing I almost wanted to lay down in the supermarket just to regain consciousness. I managed it, without doing that. I think taking 30 mg's first then 30 mg's later is smarter.
> 
> Just googling these symptoms I can find other people going through the same thing. Google everything guys, you'd be amazed at what you would find.


Do not drink tap beer either. I had 1/2 a pint and ended up in hospital. The pain was indescribably excruciating... Prior to this I'd drank bottle beer pretty much daily with zero effects e.g. Heineken.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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## Tandorini

thelastsamurai said:


> Forgot to mention I had a bad experience with drinking dark beer. My heart started pounding and needed to get an ice pack. It lasted about 25 mins and I was good to go afterwards. On 60mg's make sure oyu guys really watch the Tyramine.
> 
> The other thing I read somewhere is that on a dosage this high you can feel like you want to faint once in awhile. I find it mostly when I take Nardil first thing in the morning, while shopping first thing I almost wanted to lay down in the supermarket just to regain consciousness. I managed it, without doing that. I think taking 30 mg's first then 30 mg's later is smarter.
> 
> Just googling these symptoms I can find other people going through the same thing. Google everything guys, you'd be amazed at what you would find.


I had terrible blood pressure drops in the beginning (45-60 mg), but luckily it did get better over time. I hardly get them anymore.

I don't like dark beer, fortunately, but I have eaten most of the other stuff on the no-go-list while on 60 mg. For some reason, I always get a reaction when eating tacos. I think it must be something in the spicemix. It contains yeast exctract, maybe that could be it. Dunno if I eat other stuff that contains that. I have stopped looking at ingredients, as I have experienced that I can eat whatever I like, almost. Haven't tried old cheeses, though.

Don't need google. Just browse through this thread, you'll find all the info you'll ever need


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## Tandorini

> sming said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do not drink tap beer either. I had 1/2 a pint and ended up in hospital. The pain was indescribably excruciating... Prior to this I'd drank bottle beer pretty much daily with zero effects e.g. Heineken.
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...




sming said:


> Do not drink tap beer either. I had 1/2 a pint and ended up in hospital. The pain was indescribably excruciating... Prior to this I'd drank bottle beer pretty much daily with zero effects e.g. Heineken.
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


That's really odd. I have had up to four tap bears a night (pint-ish), not feeling a thing. Depends on what kind of beer and how long it's been sitting, maybe?


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Sounds like you are doing awesome. You sound really upbeat and much happier and motivated than I have ever seen. Sounds like you have found your nardil sweet spot!
> 
> Me? I'm miserable at the moment. Feeling really depressed. Ruminating over things. Thinking people at work are conspiring against me. Waking up in a bad mood and feeling like crying through out the day. I don't feel like working anymore or talking to anyone or doing anything. I feel paranoid and am spelling words in my head again. I just feel really sick and just want to sit and stare at a blank wall all day.
> 
> My pdoc gave me parnate today and I feel nothing. I feel no hope or excitement about ever getting better. I feel like I have to just get used to this miserable life again. Single with no friends being alone and unhappy for the rest of my life.


Sucks to hear you're not doing well. Nothing feels like a victory when you're depressed. But we all know that Parnate is something you really wanted to try, and you've been fighting for it for a long time. I hope it will work for you, and that you'll feel better in a couple of weeks. Then starts the battle for more than 30 mg


----------



## Tandorini

So, I went to the pdoc yesterday. Said I was happy at 45, and that even though I was curious at 30 mg, I kind of felt like I should stick to 45 mg in order to get progress in therapy and besides, why change a winning team, right. But somehow, during the session, he made me change my mind and agree to go down to 30 mg. Appearantly that was the plan, that I would continue reducing as long as I didn't get any worse.

So. I am trying 30 mg now. And I'm not allowed to change the dose of Seroquel on my own either. Am at 125 mg now.

Anyway, I went to bed last night, a little nervous, wondering how my sleep would be. And ffs - RLS! It has been so much better for so long, but yesterday the RLS were back. Somehow the Nardil must work with the Seroquel and reduce the RLS. 

The pdoc told me to take the two Naridl in the morning, but I might take one in the evening to see if it prevents the RLS.


----------



## sming

Tandorini said:


> That's really odd. I have had up to four tap bears a night (pint-ish), not feeling a thing. Depends on what kind of beer and how long it's been sitting, maybe?


Wow. Please be careful with tap beers. I think you're right, it depends on the cleanliness of the pipes, taps and age of the beer you get. With bottled beer there's much more consistency and less opportunity for tyramine build up one would think.


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## Tandorini

sming said:


> Wow. Please be careful with tap beers. I think you're right, it depends on the cleanliness of the pipes, taps and age of the beer you get. With bottled beer there's much more consistency and less opportunity for tyramine build up one would think.


The few times I've been drinking tap beers I haven't really reflected upon it until the day after, which isn't too good I suppose. I should probably be more aware. I've been drinking common type beers, where I know they sell a lot of it. So I guess it doesn't get very old.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

Tandorini said:


> The few times I've been drinking tap beers I haven't really reflected upon it until the day after, which isn't too good I suppose. I should probably be more aware. I've been drinking common type beers, where I know they sell a lot of it. So I guess it doesn't get very old.


I don't drink (anymore) which is great as really intaking alcohol on Nardil is not the best idea even if you avoid any hypertension. These meds are delicate in the brain and street drugs including alcohol are like bombs to your neurotransmitters

Moderate consumption should be ok however. Just watch for any increased depression or anxiety the next few days afterwards.

I talked to my pdoc today about adding Dostinex to my meds to combat Nardi anorgasma. As a dopamine promoter hopefully it will bring back a little bit of the "high" of Nardil as well. That honeymoon period was great! Felt better than drinking. Not as good as MDMA or coke though of course - but safe!


----------



## RCMC

AtlantaPhobic said:


> I don't drink (anymore) which is great as really intaking alcohol on Nardil is not the best idea even if you avoid any hypertension. These meds are delicate in the brain and street drugs including alcohol are like bombs to your neurotransmitters
> 
> Moderate consumption should be ok however. Just watch for any increased depression or anxiety the next few days afterwards.
> 
> I talked to my pdoc today about adding Dostinex to my meds to combat Nardi anorgasma. As a dopamine promoter hopefully it will bring back a little bit of the "high" of Nardil as well. That honeymoon period was great! Felt better than drinking. Not as good as MDMA or coke though of course - but safe!


Today I have done depression test in several official depression test website. All of them show that I have severe depression now. Before I think I have SA only. Nardil has not arrived in my home yet, on shipping. Hopefully these days I can persist both SA and depression before Nardil arrival. Life is so tough for me now. I understand all these depressed and anxious feelings are unreal and the result from chemical imbalance of the neurotransmitters. However, nothing I can do at the moment.


----------



## Tandorini

AtlantaPhobic said:


> I don't drink (anymore) which is great as really intaking alcohol on Nardil is not the best idea even if you avoid any hypertension. These meds are delicate in the brain and street drugs including alcohol are like bombs to your neurotransmitters
> 
> Moderate consumption should be ok however. Just watch for any increased depression or anxiety the next few days afterwards.
> 
> I talked to my pdoc today about adding Dostinex to my meds to combat Nardi anorgasma. As a dopamine promoter hopefully it will bring back a little bit of the "high" of Nardil as well. That honeymoon period was great! Felt better than drinking. Not as good as MDMA or coke though of course - but safe!


I think I've been drunk maybe twice since I started using Nardil (drunk like unsteady on my feet and being really hungover the day after). Most weekends I enjoy a few ciders or beers with my friends, but we usually have about 4 units in 5 hours or so, so I don't get drunk or anything.

My anorgasmia went away on it's own, after a couple of months, I think.


----------



## V1bzz

Sounds like parnate is going to be ineffective for me at 20mg then. I was hoping to feel a fast improvement at this dose. Have been reading that 40mg seems to be a sweet spot dose.
Guess I'm going to have to self dose like I always frigging have to.

My laptop has broken so only on phone at the moment. I think my pdoc would be open to me providing dosage studies and such as he's going by that damn book these docs have that I hate.
Oh, I am also the first time he has prescribed parnate. I think with some decent info I could shift the dosing he wants. Max 30mg ffs.

So far I feel like after dosing I feel even more depressed. Also had bad muscle fatigue at work. I have took a couple of days off.
This evening my vision is blurred from heavy tired eyes.
I took 10mg at 0610 and 2nd 10mg at 1pm.
I think I will up to 30mg tomorrow. 2 in morning and 1 in afternoon.

Is there anyone here who took parnate and felt a quick effect and feeling it work at 20mg?

I'm sure I read you would start to feel it work from 48hrs to two weeks.

Also am I supposed to feel something when the dose kicks in? On nardil I felt flucked from the dopamine after an hour and just played Xbox off my t1ts lol


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

Tandorini said:


> I had terrible blood pressure drops in the beginning (45-60 mg), but luckily it did get better over time. I hardly get them anymore.
> 
> I don't like dark beer, fortunately, but I have eaten most of the other stuff on the no-go-list while on 60 mg. For some reason, I always get a reaction when eating tacos. I think it must be something in the spicemix. It contains yeast exctract, maybe that could be it. Dunno if I eat other stuff that contains that. I have stopped looking at ingredients, as I have experienced that I can eat whatever I like, almost. Haven't tried old cheeses, though.
> 
> Don't need google. Just browse through this thread, you'll find all the info you'll ever need


I found some other useful info somewhere else that exactly described my symptoms. But yea, I agree.

I'll just stick to regular beer. I hope I can still drink those honey brown beers by sleemans. We'll see.

I have seen some people saying they switched to Parnate, because of Nardil's side effects. But, then the person switched back because Nardil was just way better. What ever the symptoms may be, ill stick to Nardil for sure.


----------



## Pinkykp6

I felt awful staring nardil- had repeated falls, memory loss, slurred speech etc - I only went on this med as my previous one - parnate/ trancyclopromine which worked wanders and made my life worth living increased in cost so prescribing authority refused its prescription... after a year on nardil with 2x week falls with split/bleeding head, 3 hospital admissions the prescribing authority Finally agreed to let me back on parnate - so here I am again on nardil and preparing to do wash out period and restarting my drug.... nardil was nasty - I had repeated falls, memory loss, massive - 1.9 stone weight gain plus slurred speech....I had to fight for a year to get parnate back.... all because it now costs so much!!


----------



## V1bzz

@Pinkykp6 reading your post made me think of @WillComp. He used to just fall down cracking his head. Falling asleep at work. Really bad hypotension. Hope he is ok actually. He hasn't posted for a few weeks.

What dose will you start with parnate and what dose was you at last time when you felt great?


----------



## V1bzz

I'm going to have to self medicate I think until I see the pdoc in 2 weeks and give him some studies n sh1t.
I will go to 30mg tomorrow.


----------



## V1bzz

Mr hypotension has come back for a play. Not massively severe yet. I thought you got hypertension on parnate? 
Not sure if it's me just having a good day but I swear it is starting to help my mood already. Hoping to feel more improvement Tomorrow!
I'm on day 3. 1st day 10mg. 2nd day 20 mg. 3rd day 30 or 40 as I couldn't remember if I took the lunch time dose so took another.

It's not stopping me sleep yet but I'm tossing and turning and waking up a lot during the night.


----------



## V1bzz

Anyone else feel super tired when they first started nardil? I'm pretty much sleeping all day. I can already feel it in my system as my muscles feel good but achey. I am trying co codamol and some energy tablets this morning to combat this. I think without the tiredness and aching I would feel pretty good.

Oh I'm also gurning a little bit @SFC01 like the good old days and my teeth are slightly chattering and I'm tensing my jaw.
I would say parnate is working for me already. Just need to get these things above under control so I can go back to work. No work no pay in my job.
Any ideas how long the tiredness will last. It's kinda a high tiredness like a smacky pill would make you feel back in the day.


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## AtlantaPhobic

I had the jaw clenching pretty bad but it went away. I didn't get too tired after the first few weeks.

I'd say just give it time and these things tend to fade.


----------



## V1bzz

Cool. I am taking co codamol for the aching and took 200mg caffeine to help the tiredness.
Oh my pink Himalayan salt got rid of the hypotension straight away.
Feel less flucked today. Just the tired eyes is the main thing now so I can get back to work. I also have diazepam and seroquel if I need them. The tossing and turning all night is super annoying.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

V1bzz said:


> Cool. I am taking co codamol for the aching and took 200mg caffeine to help the tiredness.
> Oh my pink Himalayan salt got rid of the hypotension straight away.
> Feel less flucked today. Just the tired eyes is the main thing now so I can get back to work. I also have diazepam and seroquel if I need them. The tossing and turning all night is super annoying.


The seroquel helps me sleep. 25mg to 12.5mg works.

I also use .3mg clonidine if I don't take Seroquel and it works well to knock you out, reduce NE, and let you sleep without a hangover the next day.


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah I have taken 12.5 serry tonight. Usually knocks me out pretty good. Hopefully I won't feel so tired tomorrow all day with a decent nights sleep


----------



## V1bzz

I wake up early at the moment. This morning at 0540, wanting to get up. take my meds and feel super tired again. Have taken 500mg caffeine now, trying to find the right dose to combat this so i can go back to work!


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

V1bzz said:


> Yeah I have taken 12.5 serry tonight. Usually knocks me out pretty good. Hopefully I won't feel so tired tomorrow all day with a decent nights sleep


Seroquel is nice at 12.5mg to 25mg. At that dose all it dose is work on the H1 receptors and shouldn't lower dopamine at all.


----------



## V1bzz

I am getting really bad aching lower back pain. It's painful enough to start waking me up about 3am. Worrying it's my kidneys cos of parnate or It could just be because I haven't been working and just lounging all day. My back has been bad for yrs. But has never caused pain like this all night.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I am getting really bad aching lower back pain. It's painful enough to start waking me up about 3am. Worrying it's my kidneys cos of parnate or It could just be because I haven't been working and just lounging all day. My back has been bad for yrs. But has never caused pain like this all night.


Lets face it mate, you are no spring chick anymore :wink2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Lets face it mate, you are no spring chick anymore :wink2:


The pain goes as soon as my first dose kicks in, weird eh?
Im going to take a tranny :grin2: before bed tonight and see if it stops the pain. i'm finding it makes me sleepy anyway. Would prefer a restless nights sleep to that pain any day. it's really not a nice feeling at all.
I think if it was my kidneys it would hurt after dosing not before right?


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> The pain goes as soon as my first dose kicks in, weird eh?
> Im going to take a tranny :grin2: before bed tonight and see if it stops the pain. i'm finding it makes me sleepy anyway. Would prefer a restless nights sleep to that pain any day. it's really not a nice feeling at all.
> I think if it was my kidneys it would hurt after dosing not before right?


I'm guessing the pain would be more persistent all day and night if it was caused by the kidneys. Sounds more like something muscular. Nardil caused muscle weakness for me, and whatever part of me the physical therapist touched, it was sore, unlike before I started Nardil. So somehow Nardil caused tension or whatever to my muscles. So maybe something similar is going on with the muscles in your lower back.

I just crashed. Talked to my psycologist a few days ago, on the phone, about some benefits/job stuff that I thought he was in control of, meaning he should be able to help me out with some applications and push some descisions through. Through that phonecall it became obvious that it all was a big misunderstanding. I had finally been able to relax a little about the work situation, feeling safe other people were going to help me out. Then, two weeks before my "deadline" the date my boss has said they don't have the economy to keep me going in addition to the extra staff, I find out that he reckons he has never promised to do anything like that. All he has been meaning to do was be prepared to back whatever solution seemed appropriate up through a letter of recommandation.

I just felt everything fall apart. I didn't know what to do. Don't know now either, for that matter. I got so mad over the whole situation, and felt so hopeless, having to fight to actually stay working. It would be so much easier to just give up. I had to tell my boss (I was at work when I talked to the therapist on the phone), I couldn't stop myself from crying, and the boss sent me home two hours early. I went home, and took sleeping meds at 3 pm, sleeping till 9 pm. Woke up, took more meds, slept until the next morning. Was up for a few hours Friday morning, then I did the same, just wanting to sleep it all off. I told a friend about the situation, and she said that if I took meds like that during daytime again she was to take me to the doctor. I don't feel like a doctor could help me now, all they could do would be admit me to a ward, and I don't want that. I just wanted to sleep, and be left alone. Anyway, I couldn't take that much meds during daytime after that, as my friend would have realised I'd have done so if she couldn't get a hold of me for hours at a time.

I am a little better now, but I'm not well. I feel mad at myself. I have been doing better at work, I might not need all that special treatment for much longer anyway. But in spite of that, I still let myself react so strongly to the thought of having to go back to work. I mean, it's been my goal all along. I really should be able to go back to work soon. But this shows me how little it takes for everything to crash, for me to feel hopeless. Makes me feel more vulnerable, and more scared of putting myself in stressful situations.

They built a new psychiatric hospital a few months ago, I promised myself I would never sleep inside that building. I've been able to keep that promise to myself so far. Don't wanna change that now. Would feel like such a failure, going back to a place like that, after being so much better for so long.

Not seeing anyone in the mental health system until the 31th, I'm on my own until then. Don't wanna see anyone, really. What can they do. I got mad when the therapist said that I should talk to my GP about the work situation, as he was the one to talk to the people who deal with these things. What does he think? That I can get an appointment with my GP, work out a solution, have an application get through to that office AND have everything organized in just two weeks time? He must be dreaming. Sounds like an easy solution just to get me off his back. All this time I thought he was working on this. If only he could have made it clear he wasn't doing anything a little earlier, I would have had more time.

I'm too exhausted to do anything about this. Which makes me go between feeling good about not stressing, to feeling mad at myself for not doing what I should, which again makes me mad, making me wonder how long it's gonna take until I'm "normal", being able to work like "normal" people. I hate this life. I was never like this. I always had energy, taking on double shifts, working a lot in addition to going to school, working out, doing anything I wanted.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I'm guessing the pain would be more persistent all day and night if it was caused by the kidneys. Sounds more like something muscular. Nardil caused muscle weakness for me, and whatever part of me the physical therapist touched, it was sore, unlike before I started Nardil. So somehow Nardil caused tension or whatever to my muscles. So maybe something similar is going on with the muscles in your lower back.
> 
> I just crashed. Talked to my psycologist a few days ago, on the phone, about some benefits/job stuff that I thought he was in control of, meaning he should be able to help me out with some applications and push some descisions through. Through that phonecall it became obvious that it all was a big misunderstanding. I had finally been able to relax a little about the work situation, feeling safe other people were going to help me out. Then, two weeks before my "deadline" the date my boss has said they don't have the economy to keep me going in addition to the extra staff, I find out that he reckons he has never promised to do anything like that. All he has been meaning to do was be prepared to back whatever solution seemed appropriate up through a letter of recommandation.
> 
> I just felt everything fall apart. I didn't know what to do. Don't know now either, for that matter. I got so mad over the whole situation, and felt so hopeless, having to fight to actually stay working. It would be so much easier to just give up. I had to tell my boss (I was at work when I talked to the therapist on the phone), I couldn't stop myself from crying, and the boss sent me home two hours early. I went home, and took sleeping meds at 3 pm, sleeping till 9 pm. Woke up, took more meds, slept until the next morning. Was up for a few hours Friday morning, then I did the same, just wanting to sleep it all off. I told a friend about the situation, and she said that if I took meds like that during daytime again she was to take me to the doctor. I don't feel like a doctor could help me now, all they could do would be admit me to a ward, and I don't want that. I just wanted to sleep, and be left alone. Anyway, I couldn't take that much meds during daytime after that, as my friend would have realised I'd have done so if she couldn't get a hold of me for hours at a time.
> 
> I am a little better now, but I'm not well. I feel mad at myself. I have been doing better at work, I might not need all that special treatment for much longer anyway. But in spite of that, I still let myself react so strongly to the thought of having to go back to work. I mean, it's been my goal all along. I really should be able to go back to work soon. But this shows me how little it takes for everything to crash, for me to feel hopeless. Makes me feel more vulnerable, and more scared of putting myself in stressful situations.
> 
> They built a new psychiatric hospital a few months ago, I promised myself I would never sleep inside that building. I've been able to keep that promise to myself so far. Don't wanna change that now. Would feel like such a failure, going back to a place like that, after being so much better for so long.
> 
> Not seeing anyone in the mental health system until the 31th, I'm on my own until then. Don't wanna see anyone, really. What can they do. I got mad when the therapist said that I should talk to my GP about the work situation, as he was the one to talk to the people who deal with these things. What does he think? That I can get an appointment with my GP, work out a solution, have an application get through to that office AND have everything organized in just two weeks time? He must be dreaming. Sounds like an easy solution just to get me off his back. All this time I thought he was working on this. If only he could have made it clear he wasn't doing anything a little earlier, I would have had more time.
> 
> I'm too exhausted to do anything about this. Which makes me go between feeling good about not stressing, to feeling mad at myself for not doing what I should, which again makes me mad, making me wonder how long it's gonna take until I'm "normal", being able to work like "normal" people. I hate this life. I was never like this. I always had energy, taking on double shifts, working a lot in addition to going to school, working out, doing anything I wanted.


:crying: doctors seem to do this all the time. make you think they are sorting things only to be let down. Your Pdoc sounds like a d1ck and has let you down big time!


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> :crying: doctors seem to do this all the time. make you think they are sorting things only to be let down. Your Pdoc sounds like a d1ck and has let you down big time!


This wasn't the pdoc, it was the psychologist. Anyway, I'm guessing this whole thing was a misunderstanding. But still - this was my concept of things, I thought everything was gonna work itself out. But then I had that idea crushed, and now I don't know what to do. Can't properly blame him, but still, I feel mad. Mostly at myself, at the depression, at everything.

Had this been a year ago, I might have talked to a doctor and maybe have been admitted. But I have been better for so long now, that I feel I can pull through.

Just wanna be well again. Back to work, leave all this **** behind.


----------



## Gillman fan

V1bzz 40 mg of Parnate is an insufficient dose unless you weigh like ~ 50 KG. 

If you want more of a stimulating effect, try dissolving the drug under your tongue sublingually. It will taste like absolute **** but you will get a stronger effect more like 80 mg plus it should be less sedating and more stimulating. If you hold it UNDER your tongue and don't swish your spit around, you won't get too much of the taste. 

I would not recommend that anyone in the UK uses Parnate due to the ludicrous dosage limit, but if you are serious about giving it a try you need to get as much out of it as you can. Agmatine may also help to improve the dopamine kick a little bit.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> This wasn't the pdoc, it was the psychologist. Anyway, I'm guessing this whole thing was a misunderstanding. But still - this was my concept of things, I thought everything was gonna work itself out. But then I had that idea crushed, and now I don't know what to do. Can't properly blame him, but still, I feel mad. Mostly at myself, at the depression, at everything.
> 
> Had this been a year ago, I might have talked to a doctor and maybe have been admitted. But I have been better for so long now, that I feel I can pull through.
> 
> Just wanna be well again. Back to work, leave all this **** behind.


Same here. I'm back at work tomorrow and i'm far from well enough, im shaky all over, feel weak and have postural hypotension. I get in and out of a van all damn day for crying out loud.
I just went to the garage and had hypotension the whole time, thought i was gunna faint then just couldn't see much.

@Gillman fan - ah forgot about doing it sublingually. i'm taking it slow this time as we know how flucked up i get with sides but will be printing out dosage guides for my pdoc for when i next see him. I am his first patient on parnate and he actually listens to me.

I am doing 10mg as i get in bed tonight to see if it stops the lower back pain, bloody agony, that kicks in about 2-3am as it seems to go shortly after i take my first dose. it's all very weird.
I will then do a dose sublingually when i get up at 0600 or see if i can hold out till 10-1300.

If it stops the pain which im sure is kidney pain when parnate runs out (weird) i will continue the night dose and before lunch dose until insomnia becomes a problem. hopefully it won't be like it wasn't on nardil.
I will take 12.5mg serry tonight to help me sleep.

damn work tomorrow, this is the problem with being self employed! I so need another week off to relax!!

I'm currently 81kg, lost over a stone in weight since starting back to work 

Day 6 Parnate


----------



## Tandorini

Got a killer headache. Had it for nearly a week, but it's getting worse. At first I managed without pain meds, then I started taking some Paracetamol, then I started combining Paracetamol and Ibuprofen yesterday. Today that doesn't even give me any relief. I actually called the pdoc this afternoon, I've never called him before, just shown up for appointments. He gave me a prescription for paracetamol+codeine, making me promise to monitor my own BP while taking it. 

It's behind my forehead, kinda. Intense pressure. BP's fine. Had a headache when I went from 60 to 45 too, but not as bad as this.

Anyone else taking codeine with Nardil? Any problems?


----------



## Tandorini

And yeah - any of you guys ever had any trouble with headaches when coming off/reducing Nardil?

Took one of the pills the pdoc prescribed me - it contains 400 mg Paracetamol and 30 mg of Codeine. Dunno if it actually helped, but at least I fell asleep, and when I woke an hour later the headache was mostly gone. That was two hours ago, feeling the headache creeping it's way back now. Gonna try another one of those tablets before bedtime. I'm a little careful in the beginning, as I've been taking max dose of paracetamol the past 24 hours.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> And yeah - any of you guys ever had any trouble with headaches when coming off/reducing Nardil?
> 
> Took one of the pills the pdoc prescribed me - it contains 400 mg Paracetamol and 30 mg of Codeine. Dunno if it actually helped, but at least I fell asleep, and when I woke an hour later the headache was mostly gone. That was two hours ago, feeling the headache creeping it's way back now. Gonna try another one of those tablets before bedtime. I'm a little careful in the beginning, as I've been taking max dose of paracetamol the past 24 hours.


I have headaches at the moment too actually, shortly after my morning dose of parnate. I also take codeine. good legal opiate pain relief :grin2:

did we ever come up for something to beat urinary retention? i have it sooo bad at the moment! also got the chocolate/cookies/junk cravings, funny how MAOI's do this to me. Hoping I don't get fat but can see the belly growing already lol

Maybe my headaches after parnate has something to do with still withdrawing from nardil, it's been 8 days since I switched.


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## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> I wonder if sublingual Nardil would increase effectiveness. Not to hijack your thread because I know this is about Parnate. But I am curious now...


It is an effective way of taking Nardil. I did it this way myself when it seemed to be getting rejected in my gut. they are gross, i used to bite mine in half then put under the tongue. I actually grew to like the taste as I could most definitely feel more of it getting into my system 

Also tried it with aggy but it wasn't very effective but now on parnate so will give it another shot (so damn expensive though in this country for pills!)

wouldn't let me reply in the other thread cos its more than 90 days old which i think is kinda stoopid.


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## jaiho

Its why i got off MAOIs, the hypotension, physical weakness.
I got the dopamine push but not in the way i wanted, i became compulsive & antisocial. Gaming was too fun so i was perfectly content to remain in my room away from everyone.

I feel this is the issue with too much dopamine transmission. It could be different for other people, all depends how the drug interacts with your biochemical makeup.


----------



## AtlantaPhobic

jaiho said:


> Its why i got off MAOIs, the hypotension, physical weakness.
> I got the dopamine push but not in the way i wanted, i became compulsive & antisocial. Gaming was too fun so i was perfectly content to remain in my room away from everyone.
> 
> I feel this is the issue with too much dopamine transmission. It could be different for other people, all depends how the drug interacts with your biochemical makeup.


I get the zoned in feeling with Nardil also. I have to watch myself as I will do compulsive things on it due to the dopamine. This is where actual living helps - I find when I get going and put myself out there I do much better. When I hide in my house I do much worse and tend to get stuck.


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## V1bzz

Damn i just done a diazepam sublingually for the first time (to stop my parnate shakes) and boy it dissolves ninja quick, like within minutes and it was gone!

Just thought i would mention it incase anyone else on it hasn't tried it under the tongue, you put it there and boom its gone!

Any Parnate peeps here who has the shaky hands and legs? I never had the shakes like this on nardil but did have every other side effect on it mentioned lol.

It's very quiet here lately, whats the crack with everyone? how is everyone doing?

I printed out some studies today for the pdoc ready for Mondays appointment, all saying max dose 60mg (he thinks its 30mg cos of that damn doctors book!)


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## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Damn i just done a diazepam sublingually for the first time (to stop my parnate shakes) and boy it dissolves ninja quick, like within minutes and it was gone!
> 
> Just thought i would mention it incase anyone else on it hasn't tried it under the tongue, you put it there and boom its gone!
> 
> Any Parnate peeps here who has the shaky hands and legs? I never had the shakes like this on nardil but did have every other side effect on it mentioned lol.
> 
> It's very quiet here lately, whats the crack with everyone? how is everyone doing?
> 
> I printed out some studies today for the pdoc ready for Mondays appointment, all saying max dose 60mg (he thinks its 30mg cos of that damn doctors book!)


Hi Mate, Its the time of year, post xmas, mid winter, the january blues :smile2: and of course the evil sniffles, so probably why its a bit quiet !!

Sorry I aint been in touch as work is unrelenting at the moment, especially being off last week.

Hows the mood going on parnate ? shame to see you are getting some sides on parny as well, as you know, I, well I wont say it haha. Assume they arent as bad as nardil ? Saw you mention the munchies as well earlier, thats strange as I my hunger actually dropped on parny and that was whilst I was taking 1500mg lyrica now and again 

You back at work yet ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi Mate, Its the time of year, post xmas, mid winter, the january blues :smile2: and of course the evil sniffles, so probably why its a bit quiet !!
> 
> Sorry I aint been in touch as work is unrelenting at the moment, especially being off last week.
> 
> Hows the mood going on parnate ? shame to see you are getting some sides on parny as well, as you know, I, well I wont say it haha. Assume they arent as bad as nardil ? Saw you mention the munchies as well earlier, thats strange as I my hunger actually dropped on parny and that was whilst I was taking 1500mg lyrica now and again
> 
> You back at work yet ?


hey mate, i don't think i could ever get as ill as i was on nardil. that was some serious **** man, in comparison my side effects now are nothing but slightly annoying. constipated but not fully, same as the urinary retention. get real shaky but not every day and the same with the muscle fatigue which is also nothing compared to last time.

I only get hypotension when im being naughty and drinking pepsi,coke and eating sh1t. when i drink my salt water im totally fine with it.

I go back to work monday, was fine to go back this week but they said i had to get a letter from doc saying i was fit for work, she only done that for me today.

I sleep fine too as i did on nardil. I don't feel as fed up as i did but am just borderline, not feeling anything to take me above that yet. am only on 30mg though, been taking parnate total of 10 days with maybe 30mg for 5 of those. still mega early days. got sh1t printed off read to give the pdoc on monday. i will be honest with him and say 30mg is unlikely to give me the improvement that i need.

I have a job interview tomorrow with another company as an employed driver as i think the whole owner driver thing and dpd being cnuts is what got me down gradually over the last 6 months.

If the pay is right and they offer me a job I will then have 2 days to think deeply about whether to stick dpd out longer cos the money is good or just have a fresh start.


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## V1bzz

If parnate fails which hopefully it wont I will try nardil again lol...if that fails again maybe tca's will be worth a shot


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## V1bzz

@SFC01 just ordered myself some more agamtine if you want to try it again? £12 total with P&P.
500mg capsules x 30

I will do 1 a day for a month and see what happens 

here's the link if anyone is thinking of trying agmatine - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271321284883


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## AtlantaPhobic

V1bzz said:


> @SFC01 just ordered myself some more agamtine if you want to try it again? £12 total with P&P.
> 500mg capsules x 30
> 
> I will do 1 a day for a month and see what happens
> 
> here's the link if anyone is thinking of trying agmatine - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271321284883


Stuff made me very jittery and nauseous - not sure the appeal


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* just ordered myself some more agamtine if you want to try it again? £12 total with P&P.
> 500mg capsules x 30
> 
> I will do 1 a day for a month and see what happens
> 
> here's the link if anyone is thinking of trying agmatine - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271321284883


Hi Mate, thanks for the link but I gave it a good trial and with nardil, and as you know, no effect. May work better with your parny though.

Did you get any of that armodafinil? I gave it a go but not too much different than moddy, although I did seem to sleep better on it. Probably prefer moddy as if you take it sparingly you seem to get a nice buzz from it, which didnt happen with army!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi Mate, thanks for the link but I gave it a good trial and with nardil, and as you know, no effect. May work better with your parny though.
> 
> Did you get any of that armodafinil? I gave it a go but not too much different than moddy, although I did seem to sleep better on it. Probably prefer moddy as if you take it sparingly you seem to get a nice buzz from it, which didnt happen with army!


No, totally forgot mate. Thats disappointing, armoddy is supposed to be so much better than moddy.

Yeah i'm only testing aggy cos i'm on the parny now. hopefully it makes it kick in awesome like it did for gillman fan!


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## V1bzz

Here we go @SFC01, some tunes for you to listen to...


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## Gillman fan

Atlantaphobic, this isn't your thread but I wanted to raise two points here since V1bzz is trying Agmatine:

First of all, Agmatine functions differently for the first few days. After 3-4 days most people notice a difference. I found it made me relaxed and sociable, it was only later I noticed these effects faded but it potentiated the rest of my cocktail, strongly enough to achieve my first stable response.

Second, Agmatine potentiates and modulates your response to other drugs. You have written about taking SAM-e and caffeine in other posts. Maybe try lowering these doses? The truth is a multi-drug cocktail can be very complicated. But if you want to achieve synergistic effects you need to understand that the apparent effects of Agmatine may be more complex than Agmatine would be taken on its own.


----------



## Tandorini

I'm going downhill. Fast. Had a psychiatrist appointment today. Only been going to him while I've been on Nardil, so this is definitely the worst I've been while seeing him. He said he would send a message to the pdoc. And that he would try to discuss my case with someone tomorrow, and if not, it would be Monday. I just told him it couldn't wait, and that I choose to go back up to 45 mg starting today. He asked me if I would change my meds without consulting with a doctor first. I just said yes. He accepted that, I suppose. At least he didn't start arguing otherwise. Don't really know what's going to happen now. Maybe the pdoc will call me to confirm that 45 mg is okay. Or he will just talk with the psychiatrist, and let me know through him.

He asked me a lot about suicidal thoughts. Didn't really want to talk about it. But as I told him - at least this time around there's hope. I know that Nardil will help me. A year ago, feeling this bad, I had no hope. I thought I'd tried everything. 

I sleep a lot now. Just wanna escape everything. I cry just writing this stuff. This is really bad.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I'm going downhill. Fast. Had a psychiatrist appointment today. Only been going to him while I've been on Nardil, so this is definitely the worst I've been while seeing him. He said he would send a message to the pdoc. And that he would try to discuss my case with someone tomorrow, and if not, it would be Monday. I just told him it couldn't wait, and that I choose to go back up to 45 mg starting today. He asked me if I would change my meds without consulting with a doctor first. I just said yes. He accepted that, I suppose. At least he didn't start arguing otherwise. Don't really know what's going to happen now. Maybe the pdoc will call me to confirm that 45 mg is okay. Or he will just talk with the psychiatrist, and let me know through him.
> 
> He asked me a lot about suicidal thoughts. Didn't really want to talk about it. But as I told him - at least this time around there's hope. I know that Nardil will help me. A year ago, feeling this bad, I had no hope. I thought I'd tried everything.
> 
> I sleep a lot now. Just wanna escape everything. I cry just writing this stuff. This is really bad.


45mg will kick back in pretty fast so you won't feel this sh1t for long. I personally would do 60mg to give your Nardil levels a kick up the @rse then continue on with the dose that you felt best at..45mg?

Let us know how you get on!


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> 45mg will kick back in pretty fast so you won't feel this sh1t for long. I personally would do 60mg to give your Nardil levels a kick up the @rse then continue on with the dose that you felt best at..45mg?
> 
> Let us know how you get on!


I'm worried about getting fatigue or BP drops if I go up to 60 mg now. I need to function at work too. So I think I'll just try the 45 mg. I hope I don't get any side effects from it. I've only been at 30 for a couple of weeks.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I'm worried about getting fatigue or BP drops if I go up to 60 mg now. I need to function at work too. So I think I'll just try the 45 mg. I hope I don't get any side effects from it. I've only been at 30 for a couple of weeks.


Its literally taking it for a day at 60 just to hurry up your levels back to where you felt better, then just continue with your 45mg. it should lift how your feeling a bit quicker. I would worry about getting your mind sorted than fatigue or bp drops. I don't think 1 dose of 60 would do it but you may get it a little bit once the 45 kicks in...or maybe no sides at all...but at least you will be feeling much better than you do right now.

Just hang in there 

My bp on Parnate at the moment is...
sitting - 134/81
standing 100/63

I only feel hypotension badly when i eat cookies, was hoping they could be a part of my life again but nope


----------



## Tandorini

I actually ended up taking your advice - and took 60 mg yesterday. (2+1+1) Felt the familiar Nardil chills in the evening. Fell asleep quite easily, while for the past couple of weeks I've often had to resort to taking zopiclone to help me sleep.

I feel better already - I don't think that the Nardil is actually working just yet, but I feel better having made the descision to go back up to 45 mg. Besides, the headaches have eased a bit. Was hoping my psychomotoric would have some kind of cure for that today, but the clinic just called me to cancel the appointment, so I guess I'll have to cope without.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I actually ended up taking your advice - and took 60 mg yesterday. (2+1+1) Felt the familiar Nardil chills in the evening. Fell asleep quite easily, while for the past couple of weeks I've often had to resort to taking zopiclone to help me sleep.
> 
> I feel better already - I don't think that the Nardil is actually working just yet, but I feel better having made the descision to go back up to 45 mg. Besides, the headaches have eased a bit. Was hoping my psychomotoric would have some kind of cure for that today, but the clinic just called me to cancel the appointment, so I guess I'll have to cope without.


Glad your feeling better :smile2: 

One thing I noticed today on parnate is I no longer have that narcolepsy sh1t 

I had zero libido for a couple of weeks but it has returned to normal, now i'm frustrated as hell like @WillComp because I have damn Anorgasmia 

I think it's weird how we all went through that hell stage on Nardil. I've been ok with depression since 2012 but I got so depressed it scared me I falling into a 2012 moment, a place i never want to go to or experience again.
People at work noticed the difference in me, asking me if i was ok and me just saying i'm ok, just tired. It's why I said to the pdoc i need to change to parnate now and he changed me.
Anyway, that new business I started, if you all remember, self employed parcel delivery with great pay, I ended up quitting, because of how depressed i was feeling.

I do start a new job on monday as a normal employed driver for a different company. Parnate made me sleep for the first 3 days on it, i mean like get up at 0800, sleep from about 1000 till lunch, get up for an hour then sleep all afternoon till about 5pm then go to bed at 10pm.

It improved my depression feelings pretty quickly, i do feel it sometimes in the morning when I get up but once the parnate kicks in it goes. I think i've been on parnate for 15 days now, going up to 30 after the first week where i was on 20mg.
I feel like it is slowly starting to take my mood above borderline level now, noticed it today...so parnate is defo working for me I just need it now to start working on my anxiety more. I'm hoping I can push the pdoc higher. he only wants to prescribe 30mg daily. I know that will have basic effects on me. Also i've just started to take my dose all in the morning in one go. Tomorrow i think I will do 2 but sublingually then 1 at lunch sublingually to get as much out of it as possible.

Anyone know if I can buy Parnate? @SFC01 @Gillman fan ? I know its going to be bloody expensive but if i can get 1 bottle a month it means i can up my dose.
I did 40mg today but cant always do that because i will run out too soon and they will catch on.
I may put an RX in next week if I can and lie saying I spilt them everywhere while at work :grin2:

Oh another thing, they don't need to be kept in fridge do they, cos I haven't been :serious:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Anyone know if I can buy Parnate? @*SFC01* @*Gillman fan* ? I know its going to be bloody expensive but if i can get 1 bottle a month it means i can up my dose.
> I did 40mg today but cant always do that because i will run out too soon and they will catch on.
> I may put an RX in next week if I can and lie saying I spilt them everywhere while at work :grin2:
> 
> Oh another thing, they don't need to be kept in fridge do they, cos I haven't been :serious:


Yeah pricey mate and I`ve never really searched for it to buy. Do what I`ve done a few times for various meds, request a new prescription saying you have lost the others (parents threw in bin accidently or something) or dropped them and they all went under the fridge or something - only do this say twice a year.

Where I live, I do my prescription on line and you are supposed to wait 4 or 5 days, but they usually do it after a day or two and send through to the pharmacy, so see if you can maybe time your prescription request to eek out a few days more each month.

My nardil script is 30 days and ami is 28 days, so I always put both in at the same time based on the 28 days of ami, out of convenience really, I had to throw a load of nardil out the other day cos it was piling up.

One more trick  when you see the pdoc next, hold on your pdoc is NHS right ?

No, parnate doesn't need to be stored in the fridge.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> k if I can and lie saying I spilt them everywhere while at work :grin2:


ah, sorry just noticed this bit mate so thats one of my suggestions gone - you're a natural, boy !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> when you see the pdoc next, hold on your pdoc is NHS right ?


Yep, with nardil i was getting a prescription off him then getting one from the doctors a week early.
I got enough nardil sitting in the fridge for a restart if i want.

go on ya tease, what was this trick?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> ah, sorry just noticed this bit mate so thats one of my suggestions gone - you're a natural, boy !!


Oh haha, yeah had lots of practice on Nardil lol


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yep, with nardil i was getting a prescription off him then getting one from the doctors a week early.
> I got enough nardil sitting in the fridge for a restart if i want.
> 
> go on ya tease, what was this trick?


well, you grab him by throat and threaten to staple his balls to the desk while you go round and bang his wife, if he doesn't write you an extra NHS script. Your appointments are confidential you see, so he cant tell anyone you did it. Sweet eh. Try it next time and let me know how it goes.

or 

Whatever med I was on at the time, I used to tell my pdoc that I was running out so can he write me a few days / a week, for a private script. Sure, you have to pay a bit extra, especially for parnate (think I paid £30 for a weeks worth once) but you get some extra. You need to show some innovation if you want to get yourself a good stash of extra stuff - use that brain cell of yours :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> well, you grab him by throat and threaten to staple his balls to the desk while you go round and bang his wife, if he doesn't write you an extra NHS script. Your appointments are confidential you see, so he cant tell anyone you did it. Sweet eh. Try it next time and let me know how it goes.
> 
> or
> 
> Whatever med I was on at the time, I used to tell my pdoc that I was running out so can he write me a few days / a week, for a private script. Sure, you have to pay a bit extra, especially for parnate (think I paid £30 for a weeks worth once) but you get some extra. You need to show some innovation if you want to get yourself a good stash of extra stuff - use that brain cell of yours :grin2:


Dude gave me my first script, for free, just paid the pharmacy fee so 9 quid or whatever lol.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Hey @*Tandorini* - hope you're on your way to feeling better! I've been thinking of you since I read your post the other day.
> 
> I was at my lowest point before starting Nardil.. my anxiety was so overwhelming I was more depressed than I'd ever been and losing hope. Now I feel extremely lucky and grateful that it actually worked for me. If it worked for me it can work for anyone; keep trying and if it ends up failing try something else or a different combination. One day you'll find the perfect medicine and dose, I'm sure of it.


Thanks, mate  Yeah, I was at my lowest too, before starting Nardil close to a year ago. I think 45 mg might be "my dose". At 60 mg the side effects would never ease. At 30 mg, I was going downhill fast. So yeah, I guess 45 mg will be good.

I took 60 mg on Thursday to get a jump start on things. Yesterday I felt the fatigue kick back in. I was headed over to a friends house, I was gonna bike there, and I had all my gear on, helmet, gloves and everything, and then BAM. In desperate need of a nap. Left a trail of clothes behind me on my way to bed. Texted my friend telling her I needed a nap. I slept for nearly an hour, felt better, then went to her place. In the evening all of a sudden I felt totally exhausted. Desperately so. I tried napping a little on my friend's couch, and then I went home after. Could barely make it to bed.

Was kind of nervous about how work was going to be today, but I managed allright. I guess the fatigue had mostly to do with the 60 mg.

And yeah, I am cold. So freezing cold on the inside. Good old Nardil. It's a love/hate relationship.

I'm actually feeling better already. My friend commented on that yesterday as well - that I seemed a bit lighter.


----------



## Tandorini

Never mind. Feeling crap again. Had a good night's sleep, woke up at 08.30. Have been feeling nervous/anxious all day. Actually took 10 mg of Oxazepam (or however that's spelt), which I hardly ever do. Had a couple of hours nap after that. Feeling really down, close to tears. The Oxazepam helped a little, or maybe the nap did. I dunno. 

Have an appointment with my psychologist tomorrow, but can't remember at what time. The clinic usually sends out a text message reminder 24 hours prior to the appointment, but I haven't received one today. Suppose I've got to set the alarm early tomorrow, to make sure I call and ask for the time of the appointment before I'm actually supposed to be there.


----------



## Gillman fan

V1 your signature suggests you are already on 60 mg? So sorry you are in the NHS dude. 40 mg is just silly.

Buying Parnate - I believe brand-name Parnate is available through Canadian pharmacies for $1 a pill. Costs $8 a pill here in the US. My 12 pill/ day Rx is costing my insurance around $40,000 per year and I don't pay a penny. However Canadian pharmacies will probably require an Rx.

2nd option - buying it from a Chinese laboratory as a research chemical. 
On the plus side, Parnate is an extremely simple molecule. When I say "Chinese laboratory" it may sound shady but I am certain you can find one with a good reputation. They do a lot of business with the West. There are a million billion Chinese with the knowledge and ability to synthesize a simple chemical like Parnate. Believe it or not, although there is practically zero attention to Parnate as an anti-depressant, Parnate has a significant effect on *epigenetics*, and there are a zillion research studies published every year on Parnate or Parnate-derivatives.

On the downside, this may require a larger up front cost. You can't order like 10 pills at a time. You would be buying in bulk, and I think if you can assemble a large enough order, like 1,000 at a time, Parnate would be dirt, dirt cheap.

There is also no way you would get the pills you get from a pharmacy, you would be getting 99.9% pure Tranylcypromine sulfate salt. The pills contain binding agents and other things that may (or may not) aid in gut absorption, I have no knowledge of the details here.

With a bit of organizing you may be able to band together with other UK Parnate users in order to form a buyer's club, in order to make the up-front costs of Parnate synthesis more affordable.

Oh and the third option - switch to sublingual dosage. *I recommend you give this a try at least once*  Little bit like a stimulant, may help with sedation.


----------



## Tandorini

Went to work today. One of the new patients in on Nardil. I feel like God. I know EVERYTHING. Only thing is - I don't exactly wanna inform every single one on my workplace WHY I know so much about Nardil. So. I let them think that I'm just that good at everything, haha.

We get food from another place, which delievers to all kinds of hospital wards. They managed to send us a list they called "tyramine free diet". I have no idea where they would find that information. It contained (as prohibited foods) walnuts, eggs (the white liquid, not the yellow goo), chocolate, tuna and raspberries. Among other stuff that have absolutely nothing to do with tyramine. Besides, there's no "tyramine free" diet, right, there is only "reduced". I saw the list, shook my head and corrected it as best I could.

Yeah, and they were gonna bake special bread. As Nardil users can't have yeast. (They got ordinary yeast used for baking confused with the yeasty stuff that's in beers.) 

I think they might have found this on some English site, and done a horrible job translating, as well as not checking the credentials. 

And yeah, best thing was: They sent us the list, but they forgot to include the "tyramine free" dinner tray.

I went home.


----------



## V1bzz

Gillman fan said:


> V1 your signature suggests you are already on 60 mg? So sorry you are in the NHS dude. 40 mg is just silly.
> 
> Buying Parnate - I believe brand-name Parnate is available through Canadian pharmacies for $1 a pill. Costs $8 a pill here in the US. My 12 pill/ day Rx is costing my insurance around $40,000 per year and I don't pay a penny. However Canadian pharmacies will probably require an Rx.
> 
> 2nd option - buying it from a Chinese laboratory as a research chemical.
> On the plus side, Parnate is an extremely simple molecule. When I say "Chinese laboratory" it may sound shady but I am certain you can find one with a good reputation. They do a lot of business with the West. There are a million billion Chinese with the knowledge and ability to synthesize a simple chemical like Parnate. Believe it or not, although there is practically zero attention to Parnate as an anti-depressant, Parnate has a significant effect on *epigenetics*, and there are a zillion research studies published every year on Parnate or Parnate-derivatives.
> 
> On the downside, this may require a larger up front cost. You can't order like 10 pills at a time. You would be buying in bulk, and I think if you can assemble a large enough order, like 1,000 at a time, Parnate would be dirt, dirt cheap.
> 
> There is also no way you would get the pills you get from a pharmacy, you would be getting 99.9% pure Tranylcypromine sulfate salt. The pills contain binding agents and other things that may (or may not) aid in gut absorption, I have no knowledge of the details here.
> 
> With a bit of organizing you may be able to band together with other UK Parnate users in order to form a buyer's club, in order to make the up-front costs of Parnate synthesis more affordable.
> 
> Oh and the third option - switch to sublingual dosage. *I recommend you give this a try at least once*  Little bit like a stimulant, may help with sedation.


Thanks for the suggestions. My Pdoc's 'book' says maximum dose is 30 so will only give me that, says higher doses as an inpatient yawn.
My agmatine arrived today so will start taking one with my morning dose, have been doing it sublingually and taking 40mg (naughty me) for the past two days.
I do feel different but only because i can feel my heart pumping harder and makes me a bit more alert. Parnate doesn't seem to stimulate how I feel, I know it is though because my heart rate is like 100 rested. Was hoping to start feeling good by now, feel it kick in and improve my mood for the day but no luck with that yet. 
I hate my negative feeling in my body in the morning and negative thoughts but it does get rid of maybe 80% of that. Also just lately started having negative dreams where i wake up sweaty and just the usual tossing and turning.

It's 3 weeks today that I started actually. Still too early days?

That depression phase that was just coming on recently, it stopped that and has taken me to border line. Nothing else yet. I'm not even sure what to expect, am I looking for that 'you will know' moment like on Nardil? That i had for all of 3 days  also does this damn anorgasmia go? my libido is back and its frustrating as hell!!

@Tandorini hope you are feeling abit better now than your last post!!


----------



## Gillman fan

30 mg is bonkers, you need to do all 3 pills sublingual if you want to get any effect.

Target for MAOI inhibition is .7 mg/kg, whats your weight? Don't give me any "stones" you limey mother****er!


----------



## V1bzz

Hahaha 76 kg or close (off top of my head). So cos I'm being naughty and taking 40mg I should do 3 in morning then 1 lunchtime? @Gillman fan

UPDATE - 80.8kg (putting weight back on since stopped last job)


----------



## V1bzz

Hope this parnate starts helping my anxiety and paranoia soon. Hate this nervous feeling in my body. I walked into a room today not knowing it was gunna have about 100 people working on laptops. Quiet environment. I nearly died. It was nearly too much. Overwhealming. Felt the typical ****. Shaking hands. Not being able to speak properly. Heart pounding. Feeling like everyone in the room was looking at me. Just horrible!!


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Went to work today. One of the new patients in on Nardil. I feel like God. I know EVERYTHING. Only thing is - I don't exactly wanna inform every single one on my workplace WHY I know so much about Nardil. So. I let them think that I'm just that good at everything, haha.
> 
> We get food from another place, which delievers to all kinds of hospital wards. They managed to send us a list they called "tyramine free diet". I have no idea where they would find that information. It contained (as prohibited foods) walnuts, eggs (the white liquid, not the yellow goo), chocolate, tuna and raspberries. Among other stuff that have absolutely nothing to do with tyramine. Besides, there's no "tyramine free" diet, right, there is only "reduced". I saw the list, shook my head and corrected it as best I could.
> 
> Yeah, and they were gonna bake special bread. As Nardil users can't have yeast. (They got ordinary yeast used for baking confused with the yeasty stuff that's in beers.)
> 
> I think they might have found this on some English site, and done a horrible job translating, as well as not checking the credentials.
> 
> And yeah, best thing was: They sent us the list, but they forgot to include the "tyramine free" dinner tray.
> 
> I went home.


Well your sounding much better anyway :grin2: just tell them youhave done alot of research concerning MAOI's. That is all they need to know >:nerd::wink2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Well your sounding much better anyway :grin2: just tell them youhave done alot of research concerning MAOI's. That is all they need to know >:nerd::wink2:


Yeah, but then they'll be like "well, I dunno, maybe those kitchen staff did a lot of research too". Then I'll be like "ffs, watch this, see if I stroke out", and have chocolate, raspberries and normal bread. And top it off with a couple of those orange pills. Hm. That might spoil my cover.

Also, the thing is, I've been eating most of the stuff on that list, because I know the warning signs, and I have not experiened any significant BP rises after ingesting tyramine. But if people know, they'll be watching and learning from what I eat, and I'll have to eat boring foods just to be a good example.

Anyway, took 60 mg both yesterday and today. To get a boost. My mood is better, and the headaches are better. (Not because of the two days on 60 mg alone, but I've been at 45 mg (or more) for a week now. I went to yogaclass today, and felt some of the familiar muscle weakness. It sucks, but at least it shows me that the pills are back in the system. Hopefully it will go away soon. Went for a meeting at work later, and noticed it was harder going up three flights of stairs today than it was yesterday.

A year ago today I was in the emergency room followed by the cardiac unit (I think), after trying to commit suicide. (yeah, I failed.) I am glad my mood is better than it was a week or two ago, as this day is hard enough as it is. Tomorrow might be even harder. Because what I kept telling myself while I (thought I was) waiting to die was that there would be no February 8th. That was a great comfort to me, I recall. I kept telling myself that there would be no tomorrow, no more bad days. So. Tomorrow's Feb 8th. The date I thought I'd never see, will be here again tomorrow.

Instead of eternal salvation I was in a worse shape than ever, with a security guard watching my every move. Good times. Yeah. He was nice, though. I hated him at first, because I wasn't prepared to have some uniformed guy come into my room. And then he started telling jokes to lighten my mood, and I hated him for that too. But then I realised that he was just a friendly guy, maybe not too bright, and with no knowledge of professional health care. So when I felt a bit better I started talking with him, knowing that I wouldn't get all those professional wise-*** advices, and that he wouldn't sit down at a computer to make a report and evaluate everything I said. Of course, he would talk to the charge nurse after, but that would probably be more about my behaviour, the security aspect of it all. Not deep analaysis of every thought and sentence.

I remember him telling me about the helicopter deck, and that if a helicopter was to come in he would need to run, as he was in charge of the deck. And he told me what the procedure was if there was to be two incoming helicopters at the same time, and how he then would be in charge of stopping traffic at the nearby bride which is the second landing spot for the helicopter. And he showed me some floor plans that he kept with him, and also told me about his daughter, who struggled with drug abuse.

He offered me a sip of his coffee (which I declined, as I was denied fluids, and didn't want to get him into trouble), and I offered him my breakfast tray. He declined, probably so neither of us would get in trouble.


----------



## V1bzz

He sounds like a decent guy. Probably what you needed at that exact point in time.

Anyway, you need to stop looking at the past. It is done with. All that matters is what you do today.
If I kept looking back I would make myself really ill again just from the shame of the things I did. It's making me thing of things just writing that and it does not feel good. So much mental torture, stupid actions and words. I punished myself for years until I slowly came to realise that I had to let it go and forgive myself and others or I would get stuck in the past and never experience a happy life.

There's nothing wrong with remembering, it's dwelling on the past. Self punishing negative behaviour.

P.s yeah I feel really unfit again and have muscle fatigue sometimes. Mr fatty belly is coming back with a vengeance.

I know all I need to do is some press ups and sit ups but parnate hasn't given me the lift I had hoped for yet. I have no enthusiasm or motivation for anything! Even showering has become a 'can't be bothered thing.

I have hypotension at the moment. Don't have it all the time, just came on about 4pm


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> He sounds like a decent guy. Probably what you needed at that exact point in time.
> 
> Anyway, you need to stop looking at the past. It is done with. All that matters is what you do today.
> If I kept looking back I would make myself really ill again just from the shame of the things I did. It's making me thing of things just writing that and it does not feel good. So much mental torture, stupid actions and words. I punished myself for years until I slowly came to realise that I had to let it go and forgive myself and others or I would get stuck in the past and never experience a happy life.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with remembering, it's dwelling on the past. Self punishing negative behaviour.
> 
> P.s yeah I feel really unfit again and have muscle fatigue sometimes. Mr fatty belly is coming back with a vengeance.
> 
> I know all I need to do is some press ups and sit ups but parnate hasn't given me the lift I had hoped for yet. I have no enthusiasm or motivation for anything! Even showering has become a 'can't be bothered thing.
> 
> I have hypotension at the moment. Don't have it all the time, just came on about 4pm


Yeah, I know, I should stop dwelling on the past. But that's what I do. It is a self-punish of sorts. It's so hard not to do it when I'm feeling down. And then I get even madder at myself. Once I'm feeling better, it's not a problem anymore. I don't dwell. All those tecniques and all that therapy trying to learn how now to dwell on the past and worry about the future. Once the medication works, it stops being a problem, right. Which is probably why no therapist can ever understand how irresistible it is, dwelling on the past, if they haven't been depressed themselves.

Oh well. Am doing okay today. A bit exhausted, but my mood is okay. Got sugar cravings, had lots of chocolate earlier.

I sleep so much better on Nardil. I've been using sleeping tablets this whole time on 30 mg, but once I got back to 45 mg I've been using less. Can probably do without them completely soon.

Haven't had any headaches today either.

Sucks that Parnate's not working for you (yet). I hope it will kick in soon, you've been wanting this drug for so long, I really hope it will do something for you.

I'm getting another pdoc. 5th one, I think. I run through them faster than..eh...nah, I still change my socks more often. But still. At least this time around I know the name of the new pdoc before the old one quits. So that I know what to expect, and who to call if I have a question.


----------



## Gillman fan

V1 have you tried sublingual?


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah I do it sublingually as often as I can.
It's still early days. Not even 1 month yet


----------



## V1bzz

Ah it was 4 weeks on Tuesday just past


----------



## V1bzz

So I managed to do the blag that I dropped my pills everywhere and got a fresh months supply. Adding them all up allows me to take 40mg for a month and 50mg for 8 days.

I have done 60mg today, 50mg this morning and another 10mg just now. I can tell from the morning dose that this is what sort of dose I need to be on.
I see the pdoc in 3 weeks and say to him if he's only going to let me take 30 i may as well stop now but inform him that I took more for a week and found it to be a more effective dose for me.

I took a 200mg caffeine pill at lunch today and felt high in a weird way for a bit, dropped a diazzy just to level myself out a bit lol.

I dunno, is it bad for me to ask the pdoc is there is another person i could see who has more experience with MAOI'S and effective dosing?
Don't want to hurt his feelings but i'm sick and tired of thinking of ways to keep taking a higher dose!


----------



## jtd1974

It wouldn't hurt to ask your pdoc. I've recently been bugging mine about MAOIs and he's reluctant to prescribe at all, and even then at very low doses. I asked him if he would be willing to refer me to someone with more MAOI experience and he readily agreed, and even suggested someone he had in mind, a more old-school psychiatrist by the sounds of it. So I wouldn't worry about hurting your pdoc's feelings, I'd say most of them would be pretty thick-skinned. You have to do what's best for you to get the results you want, life's too short!


----------



## V1bzz

Nice I hope your new pdoc knows the score with dosing and effective combinations.

I don't know whether to ask for pregabalin or not with parnate. I remember taking it on its own and it made me feel so lazy and energyless.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I dunno, is it bad for me to ask the pdoc is there is another person i could see who has more experience with MAOI'S and effective dosing?
> Don't want to hurt his feelings but i'm sick and tired of thinking of ways to keep taking a higher dose!


Good blagging fella.

The problem is you would most likely come up against the same problem with another pdoc and parnate dose. I would just stick with the current one at the mo and try and twist his arm a little, just tell him how a higher dose is starting to really help.

You could always throw some studies at him ?

and re pregabalin, its a pretty good fit with parnate, and maybe the reason why my anxiety didnt come back when I switched from nardil to parnate. Just start off slow if you decide to go with it, but ED and the munchies can be a problem with pregab at higher doses at least.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Good blagging fella.
> 
> The problem is you would most likely come up against the same problem with another pdoc and parnate dose. I would just stick with the current one at the mo and try and twist his arm a little, just tell him how a higher dose is starting to really help.
> 
> You could always throw some studies at him ?
> 
> and re pregabalin, its a pretty good fit with parnate, and maybe the reason why my anxiety didnt come back when I switched from nardil to parnate. Just start off slow if you decide to go with it, but ED and the munchies can be a problem with pregab at higher doses at least.


was just thinking about when you said you lost your appetite on parnate. I have completely lost mine since going up to 50mg.

Looking forward to this dose kicking in. hopefully it makes me feel great.
I am defo more mellow emotionally on it. I was always kicking off before when driving. Don't get angry like i used to.
saying this though leaving DPD has lifted much stress off my shoulders. My new job has zero pressure.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> was just thinking about when you said you lost your appetite on parnate. I have completely lost mine since going up to 50mg.
> 
> Looking forward to this dose kicking in. hopefully it makes me feel great.
> I am defo more mellow emotionally on it. I was always kicking off before when driving. Don't get angry like i used to.
> saying this though leaving DPD has lifted much stress off my shoulders. My new job has zero pressure.


sorry mate, may have missed, whats the new job ? Still driving ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> sorry mate, may have missed, whats the new job ? Still driving ?


Yeah, the last one was causing me too much stress mate. Started to get really depressed again, first time since 2012, no job is worth that hell so i handed in my keys and said bye.

New job is completely stress free and not multi drop!

I feel more positive today and feel like I want to do something. Must be the 50mg kicking in. Shame cos I doubt my pdoc will let me continue on 50.

I will just say to him, so what next then, no point me taking 30mg as it's ineffective.

Will go for a tca I guess. wish i could remember the name of that one i was reading about where pill for pill it was as effective as an maoi. do you remember me posting about it?

if not can you give me some tca's to research and suggest, in case i can't make him feel bad that 50mg may possibly be life changing for me.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Will go for a tca I guess. wish i could remember the name of that one i was reading about where pill for pill it was as effective as an maoi. do you remember me posting about it?
> 
> if not can you give me some tca's to research and suggest, in case i can't make him feel bad that 50mg may possibly be life changing for me.


Cool about the job, no point sticking with it if its getting you down.

Yeah, the TCA was trimipramine but I wouldn't pay too much attention to that study. I took it for a while and it was certainly better than the previous SSRI's I had been on but it wasn't as good as nardil for me. Worth a try if you cant get the dose you want for parnate, and there are other TCAs to try as well.


----------



## Tandorini

Still feeling down. A little better than before maybe, but still, way from where I was in December, when I recently went from 60 mg to 45 mg. I went from 30 mg to 45 mg on Jan 31st, and have had 3 or 4 days on 60 mg as well. Still, it won't kick in. I was only 2 weeks at 30 mg, I didn't think it would take so much time to get back on track.

Maybe 60 mg is what I need for my mood. Maybe how I was in December was feeling awesome(-ish) because the side effects lifted, while I still had the effect of 60 mg. And what I am feeling now is really the effet of 45 mg. But I can't stay on 60 mg, I will never be able to go back to work with that fatigue. F* it.

Seeing the pdoc on Wednesday. But he can't know for sure either, right. The professionals have way to little experience with MAOIs, so it's unknown territory for the most part. I hate being in dilemmas like this. I was finally working more, feeling better, but then I crashed. And I really don't want to go back to 60 mg, and get the fatigue all over. I wish I never would have gone down to 30 mg. If I hadn't, and my mood still went down while sticking to 45, I would have known that it was a late reaction to going down to 45.

Nardil is driving me nuts. But I know I can't function without it. And there's no other option than to stay on it. 

I am getting more anxious and worried too. My main problem has been depression. It has come with anxiety at it's worst, but now the anxiety (just constantly on the edge, feeling nervous) is really bad. I don't take critisism well, I feel failure at the smallest of things, etc, I don't like it when my phone rings, or I get a message, always picturing bad news, or that I've done something wrong. Almost feeling paranoid. I hate feeling like this. Don't feel joy or excitement about anything. Had just started feeling a tiny bit of positive emotions, but now they're gone.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Still feeling down. A little better than before maybe, but still, way from where I was in December, when I recently went from 60 mg to 45 mg. I went from 30 mg to 45 mg on Jan 31st, and have had 3 or 4 days on 60 mg as well. Still, it won't kick in. I was only 2 weeks at 30 mg, I didn't think it would take so much time to get back on track.
> 
> Maybe 60 mg is what I need for my mood. Maybe how I was in December was feeling awesome(-ish) because the side effects lifted, while I still had the effect of 60 mg. And what I am feeling now is really the effet of 45 mg. But I can't stay on 60 mg, I will never be able to go back to work with that fatigue. F* it.
> 
> Seeing the pdoc on Wednesday. But he can't know for sure either, right. The professionals have way to little experience with MAOIs, so it's unknown territory for the most part. I hate being in dilemmas like this. I was finally working more, feeling better, but then I crashed. And I really don't want to go back to 60 mg, and get the fatigue all over. I wish I never would have gone down to 30 mg. If I hadn't, and my mood still went down while sticking to 45, I would have known that it was a late reaction to going down to 45.
> 
> Nardil is driving me nuts. But I know I can't function without it. And there's no other option than to stay on it.
> 
> I am getting more anxious and worried too. My main problem has been depression. It has come with anxiety at it's worst, but now the anxiety (just constantly on the edge, feeling nervous) is really bad. I don't take critisism well, I feel failure at the smallest of things, etc, I don't like it when my phone rings, or I get a message, always picturing bad news, or that I've done something wrong. Almost feeling paranoid. I hate feeling like this. Don't feel joy or excitement about anything. Had just started feeling a tiny bit of positive emotions, but now they're gone.


Just go back to 60mg if it makes you feel better. maybe the fatigue won't come back. it did eventually go for me, it was like every time i stopped and restarted i had 1 less side effect.

Maybe the new pdoc will give you something to help with the fatigue that you can take with the nardil?

I am on 50mg parnate now and am starting to feel more positive about things. I would really like to take 60mg.

Have some how got to explain to my pdoc that i need 50/60mg and that my body has always been the same, it just doesnt react to low dose medications. so frustrating because a high dose of parnate i think has a great chance of making me feel so much better.

I'm just going to have to tell him. look 30mg was doing nothing, there was no point continuing at that dose so i went to 60mg (ill say higher than i've tried to hopefully make him go ok try 50 for abit then lol) and after a few days could feel it starting to work.

If only i could find somewhere to buy it without prescription, i could try and get as much as i can on prescription then buy a bottle a month to try out higher doses!

Hope you feel better soon, just go to 60, you cant wait feeling sh1t.

Cheers @SFC01 hopefully i can get round this dosing crap some how


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Just go back to 60mg if it makes you feel better. maybe the fatigue won't come back. it did eventually go for me, it was like every time i stopped and restarted i had 1 less side effect.
> 
> Maybe the new pdoc will give you something to help with the fatigue that you can take with the nardil?
> 
> I am on 50mg parnate now and am starting to feel more positive about things. I would really like to take 60mg.
> 
> Have some how got to explain to my pdoc that i need 50/60mg and that my body has always been the same, it just doesnt react to low dose medications. so frustrating because a high dose of parnate i think has a great chance of making me feel so much better.
> 
> I'm just going to have to tell him. look 30mg was doing nothing, there was no point continuing at that dose so i went to 60mg (ill say higher than i've tried to hopefully make him go ok try 50 for abit then lol) and after a few days could feel it starting to work.
> 
> If only i could find somewhere to buy it without prescription, i could try and get as much as i can on prescription then buy a bottle a month to try out higher doses!
> 
> Hope you feel better soon, just go to 60, you cant wait feeling sh1t.
> 
> Cheers @*SFC01* hopefully i can get round this dosing crap some how


It would have been so much easier if they would just measure the blood levels/concentration of the both Nardil and Parnate, like they do with so many other drugs. That would be so much more helpful in deciding the doses. I guess that's why we are so much "on our own" on this. The doctors can't measure anything, and they don't have enough personal experience with the drug to dare do much other than what is concidered normal. I'm glad you're feeling some effects, though.

The fatigue will come back at 60 mg - I am already experiencing it going from 30 to 45, with a few doses of 60. I sleep in the afternoon now, and have these all of a sudden "power outs", going from "normal" to zero energy in a matter of minutes. I was at 60 mg for about 8-9 months, and the fatigue wouldn't go away. So 60 mg equals fatigue for me.. I hope that I will feel better at a stable dose of 45 mg. I might be affected by going up and down in doses lately. I really need to get better now, both with mood and energy level, as I am approaching a bit of a critical point in regards to work. I've had so much time off on sick leave, that they can't continue supporting me the way they have. So I really do need to go back to working my scheduled hours now, or else I may have to quit that job. And quitting a job while sick, and then finding a new one while recovering from depression is NOT something I would like doing. It's hard enough fighting my way back to the work place I know well.

Next session will be the last one with this pdoc, then I'll get someone new. So the old pdoc certainly won't change anything (like addind a stimulant) at the last appointment, as he wouldn't personally be doing the followups. So...I dunno, really. Wonder what the new pdoc is like. Whether he's had much experience. But I'm not expecting miracles, I know that the pdoc I've got now has used this new pdoc as a consultant a few times. So yeah, he probably knows a little more than the pdoc I've got now, but still, he has already been consulted about my case, although not by me personally.


----------



## Captainmycaptain

Tandorini said:


> It would have been so much easier if they would just measure the blood levels/concentration of the both Nardil and Parnate, like they do with so many other drugs. That would be so much more helpful in deciding the doses. I guess that's why we are so much "on our own" on this. The doctors can't measure anything, and they don't have enough personal experience with the drug to dare do much other than what is concidered normal. I'm glad you're feeling some effects, though.
> 
> The fatigue will come back at 60 mg - I am already experiencing it going from 30 to 45, with a few doses of 60. I sleep in the afternoon now, and have these all of a sudden "power outs", going from "normal" to zero energy in a matter of minutes. I was at 60 mg for about 8-9 months, and the fatigue wouldn't go away. So 60 mg equals fatigue for me.. I hope that I will feel better at a stable dose of 45 mg. I might be affected by going up and down in doses lately. I really need to get better now, both with mood and energy level, as I am approaching a bit of a critical point in regards to work. I've had so much time off on sick leave, that they can't continue supporting me the way they have. So I really do need to go back to working my scheduled hours now, or else I may have to quit that job. And quitting a job while sick, and then finding a new one while recovering from depression is NOT something I would like doing. It's hard enough fighting my way back to the work place I know well.
> 
> Next session will be the last one with this pdoc, then I'll get someone new. So the old pdoc certainly won't change anything (like addind a stimulant) at the last appointment, as he wouldn't personally be doing the followups. So...I dunno, really. Wonder what the new pdoc is like. Whether he's had much experience. But I'm not expecting miracles, I know that the pdoc I've got now has used this new pdoc as a consultant a few times. So yeah, he probably knows a little more than the pdoc I've got now, but still, he has already been consulted about my case, although not by me personally.


Yes, the fatigue is something else. I am working at Panera Bread and I am dripping with sweat while working. I walk around sometimes like a toy soldier because my knees will buckle. My hip bone hurts. I was incredibly sore for three days after my last shift. Right now, I am still in training so my shifts are only four hours. I can't even begin to imagine an eight hour shift. I only take 15 before work. 30 after. And 45 at night.


----------



## V1bzz

10mg diazepam and 200mg caffeine is a good mix.
Had to take the diazzy cos am feeling really anxious today around people. Dropped 10 feeling super chilled driving but started to get heavy eyes so dropped a caffeine pill.

Am on the lookout for mushrooms or acid if anyone knows how to get it. Want to start microdosing.


----------



## Tandorini

Captainmycaptain said:


> Yes, the fatigue is something else. I am working at Panera Bread and I am dripping with sweat while working. I walk around sometimes like a toy soldier because my knees will buckle. My hip bone hurts. I was incredibly sore for three days after my last shift. Right now, I am still in training so my shifts are only four hours. I can't even begin to imagine an eight hour shift. I only take 15 before work. 30 after. And 45 at night.


75 mg had me sleeping most of the day. I was even at 90 for a few days, I was so exhausted I cried. Stayed in bed almost all day, just aching for rest and sleep. At 60 mg the fatigue was bad, but still managable somehow. Not together with work, though. Seems like 45 mg is the most I can take.

Sounds like you've got some of the muscle weakness as well. I definitely had that at 60 mg, but only for the first four months or so, and then it actually got a lot better. I remember never being able to get my pulse up high biking, because I could never pedal fast/strong enough to get my heart going. Also remember the feeling of my knees buckling, looking up the street, wondering if I would last the whole way. I was badly bothered by hypotension as well, getting dizzy spells together with everything else.

I'm definitely in better physical shape now (more awake, more energized), but I wish I could have had some more antidepressive effect. I know 75 mg did more for me, but it's impossible to stay working when so exhausted. I'd have to go on disability, which I really am not ready to do.

I guess I'll have to stick to 45 mg and hope a stable dose will make me better. That the mood swings I've had lately are because of going up and down on doses. Seeing the pdoc for the last time tomorrow. I'll hear him out, if he has any ideas, but I doubt it.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> 10mg diazepam and 200mg caffeine is a good mix.
> Had to take the diazzy cos am feeling really anxious today around people. Dropped 10 feeling super chilled driving but started to get heavy eyes so dropped a caffeine pill.
> 
> Am on the lookout for mushrooms or acid if anyone knows how to get it. Want to start microdosing.


Haha, sure you should be driving? 

Norway's got insanely stricht laws regarding medication and driving now, they changed them a while back. If you're prescribed more than 10 mg of diazepam daily, you will lose your licence. Or if you're prescribed more than 10 mg of zolpidem (ambien?). And if you're on both, the limits are half of the dose. So if you're using for instance diazepam and ambien, you can only take 5 mg of each. A whole bunch of people have lost their licence and are mad as hell. I mean - it doesn't matter if you wait 8 or 10 hours before driving - you may not be prescribed higher than those doses, even if you promise not to drive while under the influence.

At first, when they changed the law, it was even worse. They made a rule that said if you were on three or more medications from the groups of antidepressants, antiepileptics, antipsychotic, old type antihistamines or benzos, you would loose your licence. So, if you were to take Escitalopram, Lamotrigin and Wellbutrin, you would lose you licence. Even though none of the interfere with your driving skills. The rules stayed like that for more than a year, before they changed them slightly. But even now, they're really stricht, not letting the doctor and patient agree on any special deals, like for instance not driving for so and so many hours. Nope. You lose your licence. A lot of people who needed to drive either at work or to and from work, ended up having to get sick leave or change jobs, even though they were functioning really great on a combination of three non-sedative drugs.

I'm on Nardil and Seroquel now, and I can take oxazepam and zopiclone as needed. According to the old rules, I would have lost my licence just having four medicines prescribed to me. Now I can keep my licence, but not if I was to take higher doses than I do of the two latter ones.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> Haha, sure you should be driving?


Don't worry Tandorini, @V1bzz is getting some LSD and mushrooms to keep him alert behind the wheel :grin2:

There are new rules now in the UK regarding certain drugs and the limit for Diazepam is 550ug/L - luckily in the UK we all carry round a ug/L (whatever that is ) to mg measurers so we know where we stand !! :smile2:


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Don't worry Tandorini, @*V1bzz* is getting some LSD and mushrooms to keep him alert behind the wheel :grin2:
> 
> There are new rules now in the UK regarding certain drugs and the limit for Diazepam is 550ug/L - luckily in the UK we all carry round a ug/L (whatever that is ) to mg measurers so we know where we stand !! :smile2:


Haha, that's really reassuring. I don't have a car, I bike everywhere. I am happy there's some sea between @V1bzz and me 

Haha, yeah, well, there are probably limits like that in Norway too. So that if you actually do get pulled over and taken a blood test from, they will be able to fine or punish you in some way if the blood levels are too high. But I mean, that's like the alcohol limit, right. No one takes away my licence just because I've got three wine bottles in the house. Neither should they do that just because I've got medication in my house. There should be limits to whether you've taken any before driving, so that you're under the influence, not what you're daily dosage is. I mean, if I take paracetamol+codeine I feel drunk, I would never get behind the wheel after taking even one of those. No one needs to take my licence away as a precaution, right.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> No one takes away my licence just because I've got three wine bottles in the house. Neither should they do that just because I've got medication in my house. There should be limits to whether you've taken any before driving, so that you're under the influence, not what you're daily dosage is. I mean, if I take paracetamol+codeine I feel drunk, I would never get behind the wheel after taking even one of those. No one needs to take my licence away as a precaution, right.


well yes, seems a little draconian to say the least.

As long as @V1bzz take a blood sample every morning and sticks to microdosing, then 1ug/L LSD is absolutely fine for driving !!

The new law introduced gives legal ug/L limits for illegal drugs and certain prescription meds - so amongst others coke, acid, heroin, methamphetamine, benzos, methadone etc. I wonder if you could take all these drugs in one go, get a good buzz and still be able drive, whilst waving at the traffic cops? May give it a go one day


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> well yes, seems a little draconian to say the least.
> 
> As long as @V1bzz take a blood sample every morning and sticks to microdosing, then 1ug/L LSD is absolutely fine for driving !!
> 
> The new law introduced gives legal ug/L limits for illegal drugs and certain prescription meds - so amongst others coke, acid, heroin, methamphetamine, benzos, methadone etc. I wonder if you could take all these drugs in one go, get a good buzz and still be able drive, whilst waving at the traffic cops? May give it a go one day


Just ordered myself some atlantis magic truffles. creates euphoria. god knows how im going to microdose it, a little nibble i guess and work from there :nerd:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Just ordered myself some atlantis magic truffles. creates euphoria. god knows how im going to microdose it, a little nibble i guess and work from there :nerd:


:grin2: you will be on Masterchef soon !!

As for dosing, I have never heard of these before, but I find that starting big, and then working your way down !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: you will be on Masterchef soon !!
> 
> As for dosing, I have never heard of these before, but I find that starting big, and then working your way down !!




It's my own grow kit so they reckon about 40-50g of truffles will come from it lol


----------



## V1bzz

Ive got 2 weeks or so to keep going at 50mg parnate, thing is at the moment it doesn't do anything for my anxietys. When it kicks in (about an hour after taking) I do feel a lift in mood, unfortunately thats all i'm getting. I have been really anxious, paranoid around people the last 2 days 

If no improvement in the next 2 weeks i will say it's time to try a TCA....or maybe moclobemide?

I have some tca's in mind....

Imipramine
Clomipramine
Trimipramine

In that order I think?
@SFC01 you tried any of these?


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Haha, sure you should be driving?
> 
> Norway's got insanely stricht laws regarding medication and driving now, they changed them a while back. If you're prescribed more than 10 mg of diazepam daily, you will lose your licence. Or if you're prescribed more than 10 mg of zolpidem (ambien?). And if you're on both, the limits are half of the dose. So if you're using for instance diazepam and ambien, you can only take 5 mg of each. A whole bunch of people have lost their licence and are mad as hell. I mean - it doesn't matter if you wait 8 or 10 hours before driving - you may not be prescribed higher than those doses, even if you promise not to drive while under the influence.
> 
> At first, when they changed the law, it was even worse. They made a rule that said if you were on three or more medications from the groups of antidepressants, antiepileptics, antipsychotic, old type antihistamines or benzos, you would loose your licence. So, if you were to take Escitalopram, Lamotrigin and Wellbutrin, you would lose you licence. Even though none of the interfere with your driving skills. The rules stayed like that for more than a year, before they changed them slightly. But even now, they're really stricht, not letting the doctor and patient agree on any special deals, like for instance not driving for so and so many hours. Nope. You lose your licence. A lot of people who needed to drive either at work or to and from work, ended up having to get sick leave or change jobs, even though they were functioning really great on a combination of three non-sedative drugs.
> 
> I'm on Nardil and Seroquel now, and I can take oxazepam and zopiclone as needed. According to the old rules, I would have lost my licence just having four medicines prescribed to me. Now I can keep my licence, but not if I was to take higher doses than I do of the two latter ones.


wow that's crazy :O


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Ive got 2 weeks or so to keep going at 50mg parnate, thing is at the moment it doesn't do anything for my anxietys. When it kicks in (about an hour after taking) I do feel a lift in mood, unfortunately thats all i'm getting. I have been really anxious, paranoid around people the last 2 days
> 
> If no improvement in the next 2 weeks i will say it's time to try a TCA....or maybe moclobemide?
> 
> I have some tca's in mind....
> 
> Imipramine
> Clomipramine
> Trimipramine
> 
> In that order I think?
> 
> @*SFC01* you tried any of these?


Moclobemide, isn't that just a light version of Parnate/Nardil? Works the same way, just not as effiecent? Reversible inactivation of the MAO-enzyme. Didn't do me any good.

I think you should ask your pdoc for a combination of Parnate and Nardil. :grin2:50 Parnate, 60 Nardil. He might have you sectioned, though


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Moclobemide, isn't that just a light version of Parnate/Nardil? Works the same way, just not as effiecent? Reversible inactivation of the MAO-enzyme. Didn't do me any good.
> 
> I think you should ask your pdoc for a combination of Parnate and Nardil. :grin2:50 Parnate, 60 Nardil. He might have you sectioned, though


Man I wish I could, i would be sorted! lol

I think the microdosing is really going to help, will see how they make me feel on parnate.

after a tca i will go back to nardil. really dont miss the side effects though.


----------



## V1bzz

christ my head is shocking today, continuously and really intensely!

I guess my body is doing what it did with nardil, rejecting it and these are withdraw head shocks.

Haven't felt it kick in today


----------



## Serious Cat

Hey I haven't read through this entire thread but just out of curiosity have you tried or considered Clomipramine?


----------



## V1bzz

Serious Cat said:


> Hey I haven't read through this entire thread but just out of curiosity have you tried or considered Clomipramine?


Hey, I actually have it as an option to put to my pdoc when i see him in 2 weeks. He will only prescribe me 30mg parnate which is totally ineffective for me, i think I would need around 80mg daily. I've been taking 50mg parnate and its still not enough so i will start a two week withdraw from tomorrow and try out some TCA's.

I have 3 options to put to him...
Imipramine
Clomipramine
Trimipramine.

Is clomipramine currently what you are taking?

The thing that annoys me the most in this country is yes they give me what I ask for but they will never go above what that stupid little flucking doctors book they have says to do, really p1sses me off!! I'm tired of finding ways to be giving myself an effective dose. dosage of any med even if it's the highest dose will not work on me, double it and maybe...

If TCA's fail I will go back to Nardil. At lease it gives me some of my personality back and you never know. this little break may allow it to fully work.

I'm going to start microdosing magic truffles mid next week then get flucked up on the saturday and see if I can reopen the door that stops medications working for me. 
There is a barrier I need to break down that will not allow me to get better, i'm hoping to find it and smash the fluck out of it so i can get back on nardil and have it work fully and give me my life back.

my body is rejecting parnate i think, my head was zapping me like nothing i have felt before. every few second then in jolts of every second and very strong. After a couple of hours I decided to drop 4 diazepam, it helped a bit but then dropped 2 more parnate sublingually and 2 more diazepam.
KO'd me for a couple of hrs and the zaps had gone. Have felt pretty down and fed up all day today though.


----------



## Serious Cat

V1bzz said:


> Is clomipramine currently what you are taking?


I'm not taking it, I just ask because in your sig you mention you have OCD and I've heard it said somewhere MAOI's could potentially make OCD worse. But Clomipramine is supposedly pretty damn good for it and users rate it nearly as highly as MAOI's in terms of subjective well-being.

You might wanna consider a combo of Clompipramine + Abilify? (the second one to reduce paranoia and irritability, which seem to both be issues for you too). I would think that would be an extremely good combo for you given what I've read of your post history so far.

I'm not sure I would go back to Nardil just yet if I were you before you at least give those a shot...


----------



## V1bzz

Serious Cat said:


> I'm not taking it, I just ask because in your sig you mention you have OCD and I've heard it said somewhere MAOI's could potentially make OCD worse. But Clomipramine is supposedly pretty damn good for it and users rate it nearly as highly as MAOI's in terms of subjective well-being.
> 
> You might wanna consider a combo of Clompipramine + Abilify? (the second one to reduce paranoia and irritability, which seem to both be issues for you too). I would think that would be an extremely good combo for you given what I've read of your post history so far.
> 
> I'm not sure I would go back to Nardil just yet if I were you before you at least give those a shot...


Thanks for the advice, I will suggest that combo to the pdoc when i next see him.
I don't think I can ever give up on nardil because it worked for 3 days for me in a year and it was like i was 25 again before it all took control, it was literally heaven. The OCD is pretty mild compaired to everything else, sure would be nice not having to constantly jiggle my legs though lol.

Can't wait for my truffles to get here, i started my parnate withdraw today, just 30mg, when the truffles get here i will go to 10mg.

Every time I have taken nardil it's been a little bit more effective. Last time though I started to get really depressed which was weird as I thought I had that beat in 2012. Nardil + truffles I think could be a winner.


----------



## V1bzz

Just been sat in my van today since 10am. Just had 1 job that took a couple of hrs. Now parked up again just sitting here feeling truly fed up and depressed. Don't want to go home or see anyone. Think I will just stay here until it's time to go to bed. Sleep. Get up early then sit in the van all day again thinking stupid thoughts and ignoring the life and activity around me.
My body has been rejecting parnate for 6 or so days and I'm back in a bad place. Spoke to my pdoc who won't give me anything until 2 weeks no Maoi has passed. Basically march 5th.
If I'm still alive by then


----------



## V1bzz

I took 40mg parnate this morning and didn't feel it kick in or anything like I used to. I decided to take 60mg when I got in. Felt nothing but slow strong heartbeat 50. An hour or 2 later I have an excruciating headache and my bp is 197/121.
I do believe I am in hypertensive crisis ?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I took 40mg parnate this morning and didn't feel it kick in or anything like I used to. I decided to take 60mg when I got in. Felt nothing but slow strong heartbeat 50. An hour or 2 later I have an excruciating headache and my bp is 197/121.
> I do believe I am in hypertensive crisis ?


**** mate,

no idea what one feels like I`m afraid but that is high BP, how high is dangerous though, not sure.

Give 111 a call and check in with them. Make sure you post back in a bit though to lets us know all ok.


----------



## SFC01

Serious Cat said:


> I'm not taking it, I just ask because in your sig you mention you have OCD and I've heard it said somewhere MAOI's could potentially make OCD worse. But Clomipramine is supposedly pretty damn good for it and users rate it nearly as highly as MAOI's in terms of subjective well-being.
> 
> You might wanna consider a combo of Clompipramine + Abilify? (the second one to reduce paranoia and irritability, which seem to both be issues for you too). I would think that would be an extremely good combo for you given what I've read of your post history so far.
> 
> I'm not sure I would go back to Nardil just yet if I were you before you at least give those a shot...


Abilify stripped me of my abilty to ****ing talk for a week or so - tongue, jaw and lips doing their own thing all day, all night. Also ****ing agitated as ****, couldn't sit down. But worth a try :grin2:
@V1bzz, have a think about amitriptyline in your TCA list as well.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Abilify stripped me of my abilty to ****ing talk for a week or so - tongue, jaw and lips doing their own thing all day, all night. Also ****ing agitated as ****, couldn't sit down. But worth a try :grin2:
> @V1bzz, have a think about amitriptyline in your TCA list as well.


Okie dokie will do. It took 4 co-codamols and a diazepam to come out of that crisis state. Guess diazepam is good for summin after all.

Oh i also ate chocolate cos apparently that lowers bp too.

couple of days and i should have my truffles, exactly what i need to get through this withdraw. microdosing is very good for coming off drug addictions and depressions


----------



## V1bzz

Man my eyes are tired today. 200mg caffeine and I'm usually jittery as fluck but wide awake. 600mg now and still struggling!


----------



## Nick Attwell

V1bzz said:


> I just feel horrible on it, I feel high but not in a good way. I have no energy. My pupils are tiny. The feelings are similar to how I felt once the days after an overdose and this worries me.


Similar to Tamazipan & Quatiapine


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, sorry you are going through the **** right now again mate, but glad all ok after last night.

What about trying modafanil alongside the TCA ? I know you have tried intermittantly before but maybe daily could help?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10847314

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15517845

Be careful with your flucked on truffle plan at the weekend. Make sure you post on here when flucked - could be funny


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah man I'm going to haha. I've also been invited to an art exhibition but weary about rolling around on the floor hugging someone's art off my t1ts.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah man I'm going to haha. I've also been invited to an art exhibition but weary about rolling around on the floor hugging someone's art off my t1ts.


at least it will make art less boring


----------



## V1bzz

They arrived, pretty mad seeing how much they have grown even just over the last 4 or so hrs...










and look, they are certainly starting to bring the best out of me already!.....


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> They arrived, pretty mad seeing how much they have grown even just over the last 4 or so hrs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and look, they are certainly starting to bring the best out of me already!.....


:grin2:

cool mate, you sampled any yet ? How are you supposed to eat them ?

Are you sure they are not sun dried tomatoes from waitrose?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2:
> 
> cool mate, you sampled any yet ? How are you supposed to eat them ?
> 
> Are you sure they are not sun dried tomatoes from waitrose?


Mate I have totally surprised myself and not touched them. once im ready to get stuck in there is a strainer as part of the package and i simply wash all the crap off the truffle then eat, or I can cut it up, dry it out then crush it into powder then put in capsules.

I already have the capsules, just waiting for my mini druggie scales to arrive.

I could keep it cultivating in that tub for up to 6 weeks, fluck that, a day is hard enough!
I think i will order some more and let that grow and ferment until i run out of this stuff. Not sure if it gets stronger or just more grows, i'm total noob here.

Never even tried magic truffles before but supposed to be way more powerful than mushies.
If only i had got some when i was suffering in the dam. I did try, i got up, got washed and dressed and couldn't make it out the door


----------



## V1bzz

Day 1 truffles, took a journey amount today i think, a tablespoon of crushed truffles.

30 minutes after taking i start crying, telling myself off that I always think that i'm ugly and worthless and have nothing to give and that years ago I used to have girls throwing themselves at me and people wanting to hang with me at raves and pubs, everywhere because of my stupid personality.

So that's what i'm going through at the moment. getting told off and that i need to stop feeling so worthless and hopeless and ugly about myself.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Day 1 truffles, took a journey amount today i think, a tablespoon of crushed truffles.
> 
> 30 minutes after taking i start crying, telling myself off that I always think that i'm ugly and worthless and have nothing to give and that years ago I used to have girls throwing themselves at me and people wanting to hang with me at raves and pubs, everywhere because of my stupid personality.
> 
> So that's what i'm going through at the moment. getting told off and that i need to stop feeling so worthless and hopeless and ugly about myself.


good luck with it mate, hope it all goes smoothly and you get what you are looking for out of it.

edit - you are no SFC01 mate but you aint ugly  and your character on here tells me life is far from over you just yet !! Its these ****ty disorders causing this, it isn't the real you.


----------



## SFC01

one for you @*V1bzz* on your journey






:grin2:


----------



## SFC01




----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> good luck with it mate, hope it all goes smoothly and you get what you are looking for out of it.
> 
> edit - you are no SFC01 mate but you aint ugly  and your character on here tells me life is far from over you just yet !! Its these ****ty disorders causing this, it isn't the real you.


Thanks mate, have literally as i start to type this am starting to get slight visuals. I've had 3 tablespoons now and just done a 4th lol.

Pretty sure MAOI is affecting the potency of this stuff


----------



## Serious Cat

Damn I'm jealous haven't tripped on anything good in a while


----------



## V1bzz

Serious Cat said:


> Damn I'm jealous haven't tripped on anything good in a while


It was rubbish, i think the really bad weather we had killed it all. I took the whole lot and just felt lethargic and emotionally unconfortable. scale 1-10 it was less than 1 for visual effect. complete waste of time and its put me off.

I don't think its helping much that i feel terribly sick physically and emotionally right now because i am surviving only on diazepams, pdoc forced me to go through a flush out period before i see him wednesday. I am barely able to drive today. I feel like curling up in my bed and just crying the day away.

i'm just not sure my pdoc gets that i cant be unmedicated like this and diazepam doesn't do sh1t but he won't give anything else. I feel totally miserable and am ruminating on things i have done in the past and self punishing again. I am at the gateway to hell and have been thinking if my parents wernt still alive i would just go to switzerland and end this sh1t. I can't cope with it all like this, my heart and soul are broken again.

six years after meeting 'the one' then making her despise me because of my worst ever depression and I still can't let it go.

Just totally broken hearted right now with a head that is constantly zapping making me feel ill.

does anyone know generally how long it takes for TCA's to kick in, I see him wednesday, do I still have weeks of this to go through before i get any relief? i'm not sure i will make it if i do.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> It was rubbish, i think the really bad weather we had killed it all. I took the whole lot and just felt lethargic and emotionally unconfortable. scale 1-10 it was less than 1 for visual effect. complete waste of time and its put me off.
> 
> I don't think its helping much that i feel terribly sick physically and emotionally right now because i am surviving only on diazepams, pdoc forced me to go through a flush out period before i see him wednesday. I am barely able to drive today. I feel like curling up in my bed and just crying the day away.
> 
> i'm just not sure my pdoc gets that i cant be unmedicated like this and diazepam doesn't do sh1t but he won't give anything else. I feel totally miserable and am ruminating on things i have done in the past and self punishing again. I am at the gateway to hell and have been thinking if my parents wernt still alive i would just go to switzerland and end this sh1t. I can't cope with it all like this, my heart and soul are broken again.
> 
> six years after meeting 'the one' then making her despise me because of my worst ever depression and I still can't let it go.
> 
> Just totally broken hearted right now with a head that is constantly zapping making me feel ill.
> 
> does anyone know generally how long it takes for TCA's to kick in, I see him wednesday, do I still have weeks of this to go through before i get any relief? i'm not sure i will make it if i do.


Hey mate - first off, just want to say I totally relate to how you feel. I've done a lot of ***ed up stuff in my past, ruined so many friendships, family relationships, etc. that are not even salvageable even 5-10 years later. I was with my gf for 4 years and my drug addiction and everything that went along with that ended up destroying our relationship - I ruminated on that and regretted it all for years. Sent me into a quick downward spiral of depression, anxiety, suicide attempts, heroin abuse, you name it.

BUT this **** always passes man - my worst moments were always when I was coming off a drug. Our brains are all out of whack when we do that but it will normalize soon and you'll be feeling better. I wish I could provide some insight on the TCAs but I've never taken them. I would think they may be a little faster acting than SSRIs and from what I hear, a lot more effective and potent.

You'll get some relief soon mate, just keep your head up - you've got some incredible perseverance. It's very admirable and I mean that. We gotta go through the sh!tter before we can come out on the other end with some peace and happiness it seems - I really think you're almost there!!


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Hey mate - first off, just want to say I totally relate to how you feel. I've done a lot of ***ed up stuff in my past, ruined so many friendships, family relationships, etc. that are not even salvageable even 5-10 years later. I was with my gf for 4 years and my drug addiction and everything that went along with that ended up destroying our relationship - I ruminated on that and regretted it all for years. Sent me into a quick downward spiral of depression, anxiety, suicide attempts, heroin abuse, you name it.
> 
> BUT this **** always passes man - my worst moments were always when I was coming off a drug. Our brains are all out of whack when we do that but it will normalize soon and you'll be feeling better. I wish I could provide some insight on the TCAs but I've never taken them. I would think they may be a little faster acting than SSRIs and from what I hear, a lot more effective and potent.
> 
> You'll get some relief soon mate, just keep your head up - you've got some incredible perseverance. It's very admirable and I mean that. We gotta go through the sh!tter before we can come out on the other end with some peace and happiness it seems - I really think you're almost there!!


Thanks mate, i still haven't given up on nardil LOL, if the tca's dont cut it nardil is waiting in the damn fridge.
Pdoc tomorrow, think i will be walking away with clomipramine but who knows.

I may ask him why i just cant take 45mg nardil and 30mg parnate. I'm pretty sure I destroyed 99% of my seratonin producing cells over 20yrs ago...hence why no drug makes me manic. nardil. didnt even get the parnate mania.
My brain is just fooked!

I have forgotten what euphoria feels like. I had a gift of 3 days feeling normal on nardil and that was Ecstasy for me. I felt like I did before everything all took over and started controlling my life (around 25), im 41 now so you can imagine how great i felt...just 3 days though 
Nardil your a flucking teasing little bastward!!


----------



## V1bzz

OK I have clomipramine 

this is how they want me to get to 100mg, stay at 100 for a couple of weeks, see pdoc then increase again.

week 1 - 25mg
week 2 - 50mg
week 3 - 75mg
week 4 - 100mg (for 2 weeks)


Does that look ok to you folks or is that a lame starting dose?


----------



## Serious Cat

V1bzz said:


> OK I have clomipramine
> 
> this is how they want me to get to 100mg, stay at 100 for a couple of weeks, see pdoc then increase again.
> 
> week 1 - 25mg
> week 2 - 50mg
> week 3 - 75mg
> week 4 - 100mg (for 2 weeks)
> 
> Does that look ok to you folks or is that a lame starting dose?


Nice! Glad to hear you're giving something new a try, really hope it works for you mate.

Here's a dosage guide I found online: https://www.drugs.com/dosage/clomipramine.html

Seems like you're doing a pretty standard titration. Looks like you can eventually go all the way up to 250 though after you hover at 100 for a while. I guess they hover people at 100 to assess their tolerance before titrating up further...


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> OK I have clomipramine
> 
> this is how they want me to get to 100mg, stay at 100 for a couple of weeks, see pdoc then increase again.
> 
> week 1 - 25mg
> week 2 - 50mg
> week 3 - 75mg
> week 4 - 100mg (for 2 weeks)
> 
> Does that look ok to you folks or is that a lame starting dose?


Why did you ask for the most useless, heavy side effect antidepressant ever ?? :grin2:

Just kidding mate, its supposed to be a good un so hope it all goes really well - how about a new thread in a couple of weeks called "Clomipramine making me feel great" !!

Was this the one you asked for first or did the pdoc recommend it over the the options you had in mind ?


----------



## V1bzz

Serious Cat said:


> Nice! Glad to hear you're giving something new a try, really hope it works for you mate.
> 
> Here's a dosage guide I found online: https://www.drugs.com/dosage/clomipramine.html
> 
> Seems like you're doing a pretty standard titration. Looks like you can eventually go all the way up to 250 though after you hover at 100 for a while. I guess they hover people at 100 to assess their tolerance before titrating up further...


Cheers, will give that a read. sharing is caring!
@SFC01, i had my usual list, told him, he said clomipramine and i said that was my first choice. also said if at some point i could add wellbutrin cos that would be a win win for me, make me feel bit better and give up smoking 
@Serious Cat also mentioned ablify, he basically said lets get to somewhere where we know where we are first and i agreed. I think I have let him off for a little bit and put him back in his medicinal comfort zone.

He knows if nothing cuts it im going back on nardil as at least it helped with a lot of minor symptoms of the millions of forms of fluckedupness i have.
I will get a stash going of a tca before going to nardil so i can play with both.

took my first one tonight and currently feel a bit sick with a bit of mild gurning and yawning.

something weird. i have had eczema my entire life, on nardil i ripped my legs apart a lot. Parnate eradicated my eczema and itching the whole time i was on it.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I will get a stash going of a tca before going to nardil so i can play with both.


Hi mate, just a heads up for future ref, you cant take clomipramine and nardil (or imipramine) as its dangerous. As far as I`m aware, the other TCAs are fine.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi mate, just a heads up for future ref, you cant take clomipramine and nardil (or imipramine) as its dangerous. As far as I`m aware, the other TCAs are fine.


Spoil sport :crying:

will see how it goes, just expect random sh1t from me over the next few weeks, ups and downs.

I'm totally up for adding wellbutrin if its not contraindicated (is that how you spell it?)

win win it helping my mood and helping me quit smoking. took it back in the day for smoking, felt very energetic every day.

I stopped making music for pretty much the whole time i had that business with dpd, was just always too busy and stressed.

This is my latest track, pro mastered yesterday by a top engineer, just not sure i can be arsed with sending all the demo emails to the labels now though.
The guy that mastered it masters for spinnin records and other top labels, producers, dj's etc and he really loved the track :grin2:

Not sure if it deep house or just house, maybe inbetween....





I flucked my back a couple of days ago, noticed the clomipramine took the pain away :laugh:


----------



## SFC01

@V1bzz, yeah it may be worth getting wellbutrin - as I pm'd you, I think clomipramine can make you tired and lethargic and I`m not aware of any interactions between the two. Wellbutrin may also work well with nardil if you get back on that and the pdoc lets you continue it.

Yeah, clomipramine and imipramine are both strong SRI's, particularly Clommy ! which is why no MAOI.

Dont think the new track link is working ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> @V1bzz, yeah it may be worth getting wellbutrin - as I pm'd you, I think clomipramine can make you tired and lethargic and I`m not aware of any interactions between the two. Wellbutrin may also work well with nardil if you get back on that and the pdoc lets you continue it.
> 
> Yeah, clomipramine and imipramine are both strong SRI's, particularly Clommy ! which is why no MAOI.
> 
> Dont think the new track link is working ?


Yeah I spazzed the link up -

__
https://soundcloud.com/v1bzz%2Fagain-and-again-demo

had a mega restless sleep last night and kinda couldn't wait to get up. hope it gives me that nardil thing, loved that.

EDIT - thinking back it was prolly this time last year it started. getting up, watching the sun come up, doing soe music then going to work for 8am. miss that morning motivation!


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01

These tablets are weird mate. i'm doing what i done on nardil. waking up loads of times,really restless sleep, looking at the time to make sure it's not too stupidly early to get up and just do stuff.

Will have to get used to this.

remember i felt gurny and such that first pill, got nothing the 2nd one so even though im doing it by the days on the packet and i had taken out last nights one i couldnt actually remember taking it so took another lol.

Hope these are going to give me more motivation. That was a good thing for me about nardil, was that i could jump out of bed at whatever o clock and not be thinking negative and moaning but just be cracking on with sh1t


----------



## Moses Chol

ive read so much of your early threads. I'm curious why have you stopped taking nardil?


----------



## V1bzz

Moses Chol said:


> ive read so much of your early threads. I'm curious why have you stopped taking nardil?


me? yeah i stopped maybe about 6 weeks or so ago to try parnate. I'm trying out some tca's and tca combo's to see how well they do.

I will go back to nardil if they fail on me like every other drug. Nardil helped with alot of my minor problems which made life just about bearable and i also know it can work fully because it did for 3 days.

I'm looking at it all like i'm just giving my brain a rest from it before trying again and hopefully it working fully all the time 

I'm on clomipramine day 3 now and it has starting effects similar to nardil so far, it's making me want to get up really early and get on with things.

been awake since 05:30 today. bit annoying but im sure i will come to love it again 

EDIT - oh my bad, you asked why (its early lol) ummm, i felt like i needed to give me head a rest from it as i was starting to feel depressed again. nardil never did help with the depression side of things for me and my pdoc is too much of a ***** to let me take something with it for that.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> me? yeah i stopped maybe about 6 weeks or so ago to try parnate. I'm trying out some tca's and tca combo's to see how well they do.
> 
> I will go back to nardil if they fail on me like every other drug. Nardil helped with alot of my minor problems which made life just about bearable and i also know it can work fully because it did for 3 days.
> 
> I'm looking at it all like i'm just giving my brain a rest from it before trying again and hopefully it working fully all the time
> 
> I'm on clomipramine day 3 now and it has starting effects similar to nardil so far, it's making me want to get up really early and get on with things.
> 
> been awake since 05:30 today. bit annoying but im sure i will come to love it again
> 
> EDIT - oh my bad, you asked why (its early lol) ummm, i felt like i needed to give me head a rest from it as i was starting to feel depressed again. nardil never did help with the depression side of things for me and my pdoc is too much of a ***** to let me take something with it for that.


Did your pdoc ever consider augmenting nardil with Wellbutrin or something? I showed mine a study of Wellbutrin + parnate and he agreed to let me try it. Then when I switched back to nardil a little while ago he just assumed it was still ok since parnate/nardil are in the same class.


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> Did your pdoc ever consider augmenting nardil with Wellbutrin or something? I showed mine a study of Wellbutrin + parnate and he agreed to let me try it. Then when I switched back to nardil a little while ago he just assumed it was still ok since parnate/nardil are in the same class.


Na mate he wouldn't let me do anything but an anti-psychotic while on nardil. flucking annoying!

Lets see how this clomipramine goes, i think im ready to go to 50mg already. waiting a week for each increase is just too damn slow for me or any person suffering from mental illness.

we are an impatient bloody bunch and why the fluck shouldn't we be , we live in hell!

me for president over world wide medicinal dosage control? (making that job title up)

man can you imagine, i would be letting peeps take parnate and nardil together, half dosing.

serotonin syndrome pfft... i think if me dropping 2 old skool early 90's white doves and a gram of speed didn't cause it, I doubt this would!


----------



## jtd1974

Lol V1bzz you sound a bit like me. I did a lot of e's back in the late 90s. It was good at the time, but when I stopped it all caught up with me. 

I've always had social anxiety; I think that's why I got so into ecstasy, it seemed to offer an escape. But when I stopped I became more aware of feeling depressed as well as anxious. 

Who knows though, maybe it's just the way I am and I would have been like this anyway, it's hard to tell. 

I'm a few weeks into Nardil at 45mg and feeling pretty OK at the moment. Hope you get some results with the clomipramine mate.


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Lol V1bzz you sound a bit like me. I did a lot of e's back in the late 90s. It was good at the time, but when I stopped it all caught up with me.
> 
> I've always had social anxiety; I think that's why I got so into ecstasy, it seemed to offer an escape. But when I stopped I became more aware of feeling depressed as well as anxious.
> 
> Who knows though, maybe it's just the way I am and I would have been like this anyway, it's hard to tell.
> 
> I'm a few weeks into Nardil at 45mg and feeling pretty OK at the moment. Hope you get some results with the clomipramine mate.


Thanks, yeah the 90's were good times man!

ahh sweet, keep us up to date with your progress. also we lots of nardil experience in this thread of what to expect and side effects etc etc.

so if anything is troubling you just drop us a post here


----------



## Serious Cat

Well the rave scene has been making a huge comeback within the last few years, and I ended up doing quite a bit of molly 2-3 years ago. Fortunately I always knew my limits, took 3 month breaks in between, always tested my pills for adulterants, used neuroprotective supplements, etc. All the recommend harm reduction advice. So I didn't really mess myself up much.

My first time going to a rave was also my first time taking mdma. I had no idea what it would do and before it kicked in I was terrified of even being there. Didn't know how to dance, thousands of people there who might try to interact with me, etc.

When it kicked in though it was like I was suddenly released from a prison. My SA just ceased to exist. I started walking around just talking to people, complimenting them, high-fiving, completely effortlessly. No insecurity whatsoever, just genuinely having fun being social with others. And guess what, I also learned that night that there's no such thing as "not knowing how to dance" when it comes to social dancing, because it's not a "how to" kind of thing, it's something you just do. I danced in front of other people (and thousands of them) for the first time in my life, all night long, looked good doing it, and had the most fun I've ever had.

It opened up a whole new world to me, like this is what it's like to not have social anxiety, well minus the euphoria part I suppose. I ended up doing it again around 15 times over the next 2 years, until eventually the high started getting less and less good and the adverse effects kept increasing. The last time I had to sit down at medical for like an hour before going back to the dance floor because my body didn't tolerate the pill for some reason. I took that as a wake up call that it was time for those days to come to an end.

I'm not telling anyone here to do MDMA. It's not an effective way to treat social anxiety because you can only do it once a month maximum, and it carries lots and lots of inherent risks, even if you follow all the harm reduction advice. It also has the potential to make your social anxiety even worse in the long run if you aren't extremely careful because it can mess up that part of your brain. I'm just saying how it showed me how wonderful it feels to be able to socialize with people like a normal person - the point being that if you can cure your SA (using something SAFE and sustainable) it will truly change your life.

I'm on Nardil now and I can tell it's starting to do exactly that. I'm only up to 60mg so far and already I feel much, much more confident and relaxed socializing with people than before. Not as much as with molly, but hey, I get the effects of Nardil every single day and it's safe and sustainable long-term. There's a reason why this forum has turned into a Nardil circlejerk - the stuff really works (for most people at least). I feel the best I've ever felt in my life while sober.


----------



## jtd1974

Yeah I can definitely relate to what Serious Cat says. It was the same with me the first time I dropped an e, I was suddenly freed from the prison of social anxiety. But then when I came down the old prison seemed much worse in comparison to what I'd experienced.

I wasn't as sensible as Serious Cat in my subsequent approach. After the first time I was on a mission to recapture the same magic. It seemed like the answer to my social anxiety problem. Now I could talk to women, socialise etc, I just needed to be on ecstasy all the time!

I was doing pills 3-4 times a week for about the next year, crazy stuff like going to work off my face, and wandering the streets of London while buzzing, sparking up conversations with strangers, doing the kind of things I couldn't do normally. It wasn't a clubbing thing with me, I just liked the feeling of losing my inhibitions. 

It was the same kind of story in the end, though. I never recaptured the initial high, and after a while was taking four pills on a night out, but not having a good feeling, instead just getting wasted, out of it. 

I wasn't aware of the "down side", shall we say, at the time. I mean obviously I was experiencing comedowns the next day, but I didn't know that overdoing it with this stuff could cause long-term mood disorders.

Since I stopped doing pills, around 98-99, I've had ongoing issues with depression as well as anxiety. Like I said, maybe I would've had that anyway, who knows. but the pills didn't help any. I've been on and off various medications since then, mostly SSRIs and SNRIs.

I've not long started on Nardil and am hoping this is going to be something that will work for me long term. I'm sick of changing meds, that ****ty feeling coming off something and waiting for the new stuff to work. 

So reading posts like the one above gives me a lot of encouragement and hope for the future. I know it isn't good to rely on a medication to feel all right, but for me, CBT/therapy/counselling etc has never produced any lasting change.


----------



## V1bzz

I never had anything before i started raving, i was outgoing, stupid and silly. man the first time I tried xtc i was just floating about the dancefloor in euphoric bliss.

during my raving times i got in with a crowd of people, not a bad crowd but one of them was a drug dealer of bass (pure sticky speed). we became friends and started hanging out more....i moved from being a social raving drug taker to a fluck it lets snort speed while we watch pippa (a female friend) play netball at mid day.

I day came when i was totally fine as i always was, joking around, everyone loved me and i loved everyone else, we had some great fun but something snapped in my head and i went and sat in the car. From that point on the friends were now all whispering and making plans to tie me up naked and kill me or just leave me on this view point where we were just hanging out. I was so scared. my mate came to the car and sat in with me and said mate whats up, i was like please take me home i don't feel very well and he did.

Got home, the sun was out and all i could see from upstairs was the shadows of the doors in the shape oh people, i would look at a bush in a field and it would be a naked woman sitting there and i would be thinking wtf. then i coyuld hear people sneaking about in my attic. i looked out the front window where other houses are and swear i could see police hiding and watching me.
I some how got a knife and tried to slit my wrists but the knife just wouldnt cut me. This all went on for many many hours, the most frightening thing i have ever experienced and i done 7 months in afghanistan front lines.

From that point i knew i had broken something and decided that was it, no more drugs, no more raves and you know what, i have not seen them people since. I figured after a couple of years i could get back into raving again but before i knew it 10 yrs had passed and my favourite club had closed down and the drugs had gotten really really bad.

so from 18-22'ish i was raving. gave up at 22 but knew something had changed in me. i was still hyper and have no shame, the usual me but as time moved on i found that the feelings of that aweful day were becoming part of every day for me. i would have to get drunk before going to the pub to meet my mates cos i was afraid and uncomfotable to wait alone....yrs passed, by the time i was 28 it had total control, age 25 was a defining moment when i couldnt even go for a job interview, i had my first ever panic attack and couldnt even get on the bus.

Thats how it began for me, pure amphetamines broke my brain beyond repair..this is why i didnt have really too much hope for parnate because it is derived from the formula from amphet, or something like that.

As i said to my pdoc the other day, i never get euphoric any more, i think i broke that part and it cant produce enough serotonin.

I think i will be very lucky be ever to be able to find a cure but i know this. i just need a hand to be able to live again!

Nardil gave me 3 days of that, not feeling high or euphoric but just feeling 25 again before it took over, i felt so flucking awesome for those 3 days that i can describe it as being in mental heaven. all of the illnesses in my brain were lifted from me for a short time. i was making plans and was excited to want to do things again. it was awesome.

This is why i will never give up on nardil...what im doing at the moment is just giving myself a rest from it, i don't expect muxh from tca's either as my brain is just too broken but maybe i will be surprised.

at least with nardil i know it can work, i just wish i knew why my body rejected it after...maybe i have demons in me that need exercising like my fat belly lol


----------



## jtd1974

Thanks for sharing bro. For sure pills/speed etc can upset your brain chemistry, especially when overdoing it over the longer term. It seems like a laugh when you're living it but like some dude said to me at the time (I ignored him lol), it always catches up with you in the end. 

I heard about that bass stuff back in the day, it was supposed to be potent. I never got the opportunity to try it, probably for the best. I'm sure I would have ended up getting into it big time. I tried straight speed a few times, when my pill dealer had some to sell, and I always liked the confidence it gave me, but wasn't keen on being unable to sleep for days. The guys I knew back then used to like mixing pills and speed for a night out. 

V1bzz are you from the UK? Something about the way you write gives me that impression. I'm from London originally but have been living here in Australia for a few years now.

Yeah Nardil seems promising. I got a bit of a manic high off it at first, maybe that's what made you feel better at the start. For me it wore off after a few days and I've been feeling more relaxed since. I don't want to fall into the trap of chasing that initial buzz. It's working quite well at 45mg, but I've been having the odd bad day where the anxiety comes back. Not sure whether a bigger dose might work better. I weigh about 85kg, so going by the 1mg/kg thing a higher dose might be worth trying. I guess it's a balancing act with the potential side effects.


----------



## jtd1974

By the way V1bzz, sorry for hijacking your thread with all our own sh*t... it's supposed to be about Nardil making you feel awful...


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> By the way V1bzz, sorry for hijacking your thread with all our own sh*t... it's supposed to be about Nardil making you feel awful...


Na it doesn't matter, it's good for people to be able to talk about sh1t. your not hijacking, man some of the stuff we talk about here has feck all to do with anything med related sometimes lol


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Thanks for sharing bro. For sure pills/speed etc can upset your brain chemistry, especially when overdoing it over the longer term. It seems like a laugh when you're living it but like some dude said to me at the time (I ignored him lol), it always catches up with you in the end.
> 
> I heard about that bass stuff back in the day, it was supposed to be potent. I never got the opportunity to try it, probably for the best. I'm sure I would have ended up getting into it big time. I tried straight speed a few times, when my pill dealer had some to sell, and I always liked the confidence it gave me, but wasn't keen on being unable to sleep for days. The guys I knew back then used to like mixing pills and speed for a night out.
> 
> V1bzz are you from the UK? Something about the way you write gives me that impression. I'm from London originally but have been living here in Australia for a few years now.
> 
> Yeah Nardil seems promising. I got a bit of a manic high off it at first, maybe that's what made you feel better at the start. For me it wore off after a few days and I've been feeling more relaxed since. I don't want to fall into the trap of chasing that initial buzz. It's working quite well at 45mg, but I've been having the odd bad day where the anxiety comes back. Not sure whether a bigger dose might work better. I weigh about 85kg, so going by the 1mg/kg thing a higher dose might be worth trying. I guess it's a balancing act with the potential side effects.


Yeah from England. I never got the initial manic feel good high from nardil, i defo felt the dopamine kick but it just made me feel flucked and drunk like. I liked to play xbox at that point lol.

how long you been on 45mg for now? don't make the mistake of pushing too hard too fast like many do, patience is key imo. if your feeling it at 45mg that is flucking awesome!

a gram of speed and a couple of pills was an awesome combo back in the day. still remember the best night of my life on drugs.... sept 30th 1994 all nighter at the brunel rooms in swindon.

Me and my mate were a bit skint and could only afford 1 pill each and share a gram of speed. so we get the pill knowing it would be enough as at that point there were some going around that were double strength (cant remember name) and we had one of them each, fat little things they were and slightly yellow if i remember correctly. so, we go buy a gram of speed of this dealer who's stuff we know is good as a friend had got some off him. buy i gram, when we open it we realize theres 2 grams :grin2:
it was the perfect combo on the perfect night and i have never felt as good as i did that night, it was awesome. I remember i kept going up to the dj flucked off my head asking when the 'luv dup twins' were on over and bloody over cos i kept forgetting, it was them the whole time haha. so i basically missed the set in a confused flucked up head mindset haha. well not really miss them cos i was still dancing, just didnt know wtf was going on.






I was also at this all nighter :grin2:

House music will never be this good again. it's before it split into genres and was everything in one. acid, techno, trance, tech etc etc etc


----------



## V1bzz

Man I hope this sh1t kicks in soon, so far it just gives me a hangover headache all damn day!


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> how long you been on 45mg for now? don't make the mistake of pushing too hard too fast like many do, patience is key imo. if your feeling it at 45mg that is flucking awesome!


I've been on 45mg for a couple of weeks now, feels like longer. It's settled down into a nice relaxed feeling. I'm definitely more sociable; went on a train trip today and on the way back (a two-hour journey) chatted away with this nice elderly couple who sat down opposite me. Something like that would have been beyond me pre-Nardil, I'd have been squirming in my seat. Even my increased participation on this forum I put down to this med... I'd been registered since 2015 but mostly lurking, with only the odd random post.

But I'm still having the odd off-day here and there where it feels like the anxiety comes back. I guess that's the thing with Nardil, there's always that thought of "if I feel this improved now, surely more would be better". I'm not seeing my pdoc for another three or four weeks. Maybe by then I'll have more idea of whether an increase would be worth trying. Would that be going too fast, say six weeks on 45mg, then possibly up to 60mg?

I've heard people on here saying that Nardil's side effects tend to pop up at 60mg, and that it can then be harder to drop back down with the dose. So is it like after going up to say 60mg and then dropping back to 45mg, the lower dose would be somehow less effective? So far I've just had a bit of restless sleep and that's it. I took half a clonazepam the other evening and slept the whole night through, but felt groggy as hell the next day.

V1bzz some nice tunes you posted there. Though for me I find it hard to listen to the music that was around in clubs during my drug days, brings back bad memories. A few good ones yeah, but mostly stuff I prefer not to think about. To be honest I find myself wishing I'd known about meds like Nardil back then instead of getting wasted on gear and doing myself mental damage in the long run. Guess you have to live and learn.


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah more sides hit at 60 but it is a very good dose for many people, just side effects ruin it. ie muscle fatigue, the bloated stomach, hypotension. anorgasmia big time.

If you start having too many bad days at 45 then i would say go up to 60 or even a half. those results at 2 weeks is awesome, im well jell lol.
4 weeks min i reckon unless your feeling like its not working.


----------



## V1bzz

ok where the F is everyone? @SFC01 @Tandorini @WillComp @Gillman fan @watertouch

Hope you are all ok?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> ok where the F is everyone?
> @*SFC01*
> @*Tandorini*
> @*WillComp*
> @*Gillman fan*
> @*watertouch*
> 
> Hope you are all ok?


Hi Mate, I'm fine so you can sleep easy now . Been a busy week at work !! Will catch up later for an update on the clomippy so far.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> clomippy so far.


Clommy even though clomippy does sound cool lol :nerd::grin2:


----------



## SFC01

karenw said:


> As he will have a go if I say otherwise, yeah it is cool haha, just agree.


you ok karenw? hope you are having a good week so far. Take care :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> you ok karenw? hope you are having a good week so far. Take care :grin2:


guessing this was meant for another thread? lol :nerd:


----------



## SFC01

karenw said:


> It actually means he doesn't give a crap about my week


Does it ?

You are tough nut to crack karen, I even dedicated a song to you!

Anyway, thought we hit the reset button ? We can scrap that idea if you want !! :smile2:

Sorry @V1bzz mate, karen didn't quite follow my attempt at humour last week, and probably isn't aware that almost everyone on this thread knows I dick around sometimes.


----------



## SFC01

@karenw, I know I got the wrong name last time so


----------



## Tandorini

I'm actually doing quite well. Been away for a couple of weeks (a week in Spain followed by a week with family in another part of my country), it did me good to get away for a while.

My mood is better now, I think I'm stabilized at 45 mg, no longer feeling the effects of the couple of weeks at 30 mg. I do struggle a bit with fatigue, but it's mostly in the afternoon, and gets better by having a nap.

For the past few days I've felt my mood is lighter, somehow. I have had days like this before, and then gone back to a lower mood afterwards, but still, I do appreciate them. I feel like I see my surroundings more clearly. Looking at people on the street, not just stuck inside my own world, getting from A to B. I'm more curious, which is a think I'm totally lacking when I am depressed. I've worked three full days this week, just like regular staff. It's gone well, no trouble at all. Just got a call from work asking if I can come in tomorrow. It feels great being about to help out like that again. I am not gonna overdo it by working anywhere close to full time just yet, but it feels good being part of the normal staff the days I'm there.

My psychologist is leaving the clinic for a few months, and that means I'll stop seeing him. I also just had my last appointment with the psychomotoric last week. But I can give her a call if I need to see here, though, I'm still in the system. My pdoc has left, and I have an appointment with the new one in 5-6 weeks time. Somehow it feels okay, me not being in therapy from now on. It does take up a lot of time and energy. I've been going to therapy regularly for quite some time now, and I feel I am well enough to continue on my own. You can only get so far in a therapy room. I need to get back to work now. The depression is not holding me back workwise, and the fatigue is kind of managable. I will just have to try. I do get exhausted, but everyone does get exhausted after working. The important thing is I don't automatically feel depressed afterwards. Stress at work doesn't immediatly make me feel depressed anymore. I hope it continues like this, so that I can achieve more and more, and eventually go back to how things were before, before I got depressed. 

Wow, that was a lot of rambling. But yeah, somewhat of a status update from me.


----------



## SFC01

karenw said:


> Have fun watching the video!


Is that some kind of clue about your real name?

Although I`m not prepared to listen to that crap the whole way through.


----------



## SFC01

Tandorini said:


> I'm actually doing quite well. Been away for a couple of weeks (a week in Spain followed by a week with family in another part of my country), it did me good to get away for a while.
> 
> My mood is better now, I think I'm stabilized at 45 mg, no longer feeling the effects of the couple of weeks at 30 mg. I do struggle a bit with fatigue, but it's mostly in the afternoon, and gets better by having a nap.
> 
> For the past few days I've felt my mood is lighter, somehow. I have had days like this before, and then gone back to a lower mood afterwards, but still, I do appreciate them. I feel like I see my surroundings more clearly. Looking at people on the street, not just stuck inside my own world, getting from A to B. I'm more curious, which is a think I'm totally lacking when I am depressed. I've worked three full days this week, just like regular staff. It's gone well, no trouble at all. Just got a call from work asking if I can come in tomorrow. It feels great being about to help out like that again. I am not gonna overdo it by working anywhere close to full time just yet, but it feels good being part of the normal staff the days I'm there.
> 
> My psychologist is leaving the clinic for a few months, and that means I'll stop seeing him. I also just had my last appointment with the psychomotoric last week. But I can give her a call if I need to see here, though, I'm still in the system. My pdoc has left, and I have an appointment with the new one in 5-6 weeks time. Somehow it feels okay, me not being in therapy from now on. It does take up a lot of time and energy. I've been going to therapy regularly for quite some time now, and I feel I am well enough to continue on my own. You can only get so far in a therapy room. I need to get back to work now. The depression is not holding me back workwise, and the fatigue is kind of managable. I will just have to try. I do get exhausted, but everyone does get exhausted after working. The important thing is I don't automatically feel depressed afterwards. Stress at work doesn't immediatly make me feel depressed anymore. I hope it continues like this, so that I can achieve more and more, and eventually go back to how things were before, before I got depressed.
> 
> Wow, that was a lot of rambling. But yeah, somewhat of a status update from me.


Thats good to hear Tandorini !! Hope things carry on improving.


----------



## SFC01

karenw said:


> As if, I don't play games.


I`d prefer not to comment on this.


----------



## Moses Chol

V1bzz said:


> me? yeah i stopped maybe about 6 weeks or so ago to try parnate. I'm trying out some tca's and tca combo's to see how well they do.
> 
> I will go back to nardil if they fail on me like every other drug. Nardil helped with alot of my minor problems which made life just about bearable and i also know it can work fully because it did for 3 days.
> 
> I'm looking at it all like i'm just giving my brain a rest from it before trying again and hopefully it working fully all the time
> 
> I'm on clomipramine day 3 now and it has starting effects similar to nardil so far, it's making me want to get up really early and get on with things.
> 
> been awake since 05:30 today. bit annoying but im sure i will come to love it again
> 
> EDIT - oh my bad, you asked why (its early lol) ummm, i felt like i needed to give me head a rest from it as i was starting to feel depressed again. nardil never did help with the depression side of things for me and my pdoc is too much of a ***** to let me take something with it for that.


I think the reason you failed with Nardil is because you dosed to in short period. Maybe next time you start again try dosing low and increase each time your body adjust. I learned this from a user who posted this strategy in this thread. Do you remember his post?

He said he was on was nardil for 4 years and had many failed attempts first year from dosing too high in a short period. He started at 15 mg and incrased when his body tolerated that amount and the side effects subsided. It took a month for each toleration - in each he would increase by 15mg. After four months he was at 60mg with no side effects. During the four month of each increment increase, he would deal with a new round of hypotension (helped by using an abdominal binder) and insomnia. During that Period he had no energy and could not walk far. After the four months though all issues went away and 100% SA remission.

P.S. I haven't tried this method as i'm new to taking meds. I've been on Rispirdone for 2 weeks now. My doctor prescribed me 4mg which is way to high. I'm thinking of doing 1mg and increase each month or whenever my body adjust to each increment like above user i mentioned.


----------



## SFC01

Moses Chol said:


> I think the reason you failed with Nardil is because you dosed to in short period. Maybe next time you start again try dosing low and increase each time your body adjust. I learned this from a user who posted this strategy in this thread. Do you remember his post?


maybe, and worth a try.

Although I ramped up nardil super quick and it worked for me with no side effects.

What are you taking the rispirdone for ?


----------



## Moses Chol

SFC01 said:


> maybe, and worth a try.
> 
> Although I ramped up nardil super quick and it worked for me with no side effects.
> 
> What are you taking the rispirdone for ?


I have an anger problem and SA. I want to see which problem of those two will it treat. 
So you are saying dosing high worked for you?


----------



## V1bzz

Moses Chol said:


> I have an anger problem and SA. I want to see which problem of those two will it treat.
> So you are saying dosing high worked for you?


It will or should help with the anger side of things....Ask your Pdoc about Trifluoperazine, it's old skool but mega effective! it's like a benzo except its liquid and non addictive and very effective.
Only problem was it gave me super restless legs. I still have some though and when i feel like i'm just about to blow i take a swig and boom, im mr chill pill again.

Thanks for the tip about nardil, yeah i do remember that post. I was on nardil a year and tried it every way you can imagine apart from sticking it up my @rse which @watertouch and @SFC01 were keen for me to try as my last option >

I am defo missing the motivation to work that nardil gave me and yes, if these tca's dont work I will be going back on to nardil and will be taking it slow.


----------



## SFC01

Moses Chol said:


> I have an anger problem and SA. I want to see which problem of those two will it treat.
> So you are saying dosing high worked for you?


Yeah, unfortunately there is no guaranteed method however you do it - just have to suck it and see.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Thanks for the tip about nardil, yeah i do remember that post. I was on nardil a year and tried it every way you can imagine apart from sticking it up my @rse which @*watertouch* and @*SFC01* were keen for me to try as my last option >


eh mate, I was only trying to help :grin2:. I cant vouch for our Swedish brother's keeness though as you know what he is like.

@*watertouch* , come back big A, anyone would think you dont love your English ugly brothers anymore.


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 do you think im being too impatient again that it's been two weeks and i aint feeling chit from these meds yet. have been on 75mg a week this friday where i will go up to 100mg.

think ive been on it 2 weeks total.

Cant wait for this damn anhedonia to go, Just feel like i don't want to work, to do music, to play my new playstation to do anything. flucking chit feeling!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* do you think im being too impatient again that it's been two weeks and i aint feeling chit from these meds yet. have been on 75mg a week this friday where i will go up to 100mg.
> 
> think ive been on it 2 weeks total.


understanding that you would be impatient mate but definitely give it some more time though, maybe have a few weeks at max dose - is that 100mg or can you go higher? I think TCAs are supposed to work quicker than SSRIs in general though but don't know much about clommy


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> understanding that you would be impatient mate but definitely give it some more time though, maybe have a few weeks at max dose - is that 100 mg or can you go higher? I think TCAs are supposed to work quicker than SSRIs in general though but don't know much about clommy


I think 250 is max dose but he wants to see how i am at 100 mg for 2 weeks before i see him again.
I think 150 and up is generally the dosage for messed up brains like mine lol


----------



## V1bzz

This stuff is starting to kick in now and I feel like ****. Didn't work the last two days, just felt like it was too much for me. hard to explain how i feel, massive anhedonia with like stuffy unclear head. Not feeling like talking to anyone or going out of the house. bit paranoid and self aware.

I do expect to feel like dog sh1t though before feeling better, just the way these types of meds work aint it.

I'm at 100 mg now, gotta stay here until i see the pdoc again. Can't remember when that is right now as can't think straight. if my brain had a look it would be sloth out of the goonies....









Heeey youuuu guuuuuys!!


----------



## toolband185

V1bzz said:


> This stuff is starting to kick in now and I feel like ****. Didn't work the last two days, just felt like it was too much for me. hard to explain how i feel, massive anhedonia with like stuffy unclear head. Not feeling like talking to anyone or going out of the house. bit paranoid and self aware.
> 
> I do expect to feel like dog sh1t though before feeling better, just the way these types of meds work aint it.
> 
> I'm at 100 mg now, gotta stay here until i see the pdoc again. Can't remember when that is right now as can't think straight. if my brain had a look it would be sloth out of the goonies....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heeey youuuu guuuuuys!!


I tried to hang in there on clommy with ya but I really felt i was getting worse as the weeks went on.

I'm back on Nardil now and going to take it slow like last time and go to 45mg with klonopin.

I hope it kicks in for you man.

Sent from my SM-S550TL using Tapatalk


----------



## V1bzz

toolband185 said:


> I tried to hang in there on clommy with ya but I really felt i was getting worse as the weeks went on.
> 
> I'm back on Nardil now and going to take it slow like last time and go to 45mg with klonopin.
> 
> I hope it kicks in for you man.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S550TL using Tapatalk


Good luck on nardil. I kinda want to go back on it, i just remember the 3 days of normalness heaven it gave me.


----------



## V1bzz

man this stuff is making me feel like chit. Thats 3 days off work now.

Sat at the chemist for an hour cos they owe me some trifluoperazine and i bloody need it so bad right now, wish i had some diazepam left!

Hate these negative thoughts and feelings but i know i have to just deal with it to get better.
@toolband185 I guess I am at the stage you were at. I don't think it can get any worse than this, if it does i don't know what to do as there is no quick fix.

Just gotta be strong, got the weekend now to get past this!

May take a quetiapine to knock my @$$ out.

My eyes look so psycho today with pupils like p1ss holes in snow


----------



## jtd1974

Feels like the Nardil hasn't been doing much for me lately. I'm not sure if the disturbed sleep I've been having is catching up with me. I've taken the liberty of boosting it up with an extra half pill to 52.5mg to try and help things along :grin2: Just hanging out until I see my pdoc in a couple of weeks...


----------



## toolband185

V1bzz said:


> man this stuff is making me feel like chit. Thats 3 days off work now.
> 
> Sat at the chemist for an hour cos they owe me some trifluoperazine and i bloody need it so bad right now, wish i had some diazepam left!
> 
> Hate these negative thoughts and feelings but i know i have to just deal with it to get better.
> @toolband185 I guess I am at the stage you were at. I don't think it can get any worse than this, if it does i don't know what to do as there is no quick fix.
> 
> Just gotta be strong, got the weekend now to get past this!
> 
> May take a quetiapine to knock my @$$ out.
> 
> My eyes look so psycho today with pupils like p1ss holes in snow


Yeah man I was there and now in a week of no clommy. I have to wait the 2 weeks out until next Friday to start Nardil again.

I did the exact thing you mentioned. I took seroquel just to knock me out all day so I wouldn't have to deal with anything. When I would wake up id pop another one and go back to sleep. I don't have my boy this week so I said hey why not.

I do have a question though dealing with nardil and seroquel. Do you or anyone else think that the seroquel can effect nardil benefits. I took seroquel on my 2nd trial of Nardil at 200mg for sleep cause it caused that dreadful insomnia but thankfully at 45mg I wasn't having no problems with any sexual side effects (that started when I got too 60mg).

What would be a good augmentation with nardil for sleep other than Trazodone and unisom. I remember adding lithium and lamitcal to it to try and boost its effects but they didn't work. 
@V1bzz are you going back on Nardil if clommy doesn't start doing anything?

Sent from my SM-S550TL using Tapatalk


----------



## V1bzz

toolband185 said:


> Yeah man I was there and now in a week of no clommy. I have to wait the 2 weeks out until next Friday to start Nardil again.
> 
> I did the exact thing you mentioned. I took seroquel just to knock me out all day so I wouldn't have to deal with anything. When I would wake up id pop another one and go back to sleep. I don't have my boy this week so I said hey why not.
> 
> I do have a question though dealing with nardil and seroquel. Do you or anyone else think that the seroquel can effect nardil benefits. I took seroquel on my 2nd trial of Nardil at 200mg for sleep cause it caused that dreadful insomnia but thankfully at 45mg I wasn't having no problems with any sexual side effects (that started when I got too 60mg).
> 
> What would be a good augmentation with nardil for sleep other than Trazodone and unisom. I remember adding lithium and lamitcal to it to try and boost its effects but they didn't work.
> @V1bzz are you going back on Nardil if clommy doesn't start doing anything?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S550TL using Tapatalk


at the moment i still feel like sh11t in my head. these meds are weird, they bounced me out of bed this morning at 0630 but then i fell asleep again at 0730 and still feel really tired now. tossing and turning all night when im sleeping too.

gunna drop to 75mg tonight to see how i feel tomorrow. This sh11t is gunna make me lose my job, theres no way i can drive with my head like this, cant think straight.

Don't know what im going to do!

I never had sleep problems on nardil, it actually helped me sleep, where as before i started it i couldnt sleep. never needed seroquel.

I really don't know what the fluck to do now, if dropping to 75mg doesnt make me feel better then im screwed. really wish i had some....**** it i cant remember the name, this damn head!!! :crying:


----------



## V1bzz

Man i need something to clear this head up. im wondering if i should take a parnate or nardil today just to see what happens, i guess parnate would make sense as its supposed to be more activating (though it did **** all like that for me when i was on it)

I got to do something!!!


----------



## V1bzz

I've realized how this drug makes me feel. yrs ago I used to drink to cover up my anxiety, sometimes going on a bender for 3 or 4 days until i got really sick. well, when i got really sick this is how i felt, like i am today. really bad shakes, foggy head, really flucking paranoid and self aware. unable to function as a human being.

So, i've said **** it today, drove down the garage and got myself 4 cans of thatchers cider. I figured if the tablets are making me feel this way then the only way to stop it yrs ago was to drink 4 cans to ease the pain.

Hopefully this will work and flush this **** out of my system, im not taking it any more and am going to go straight back on nardil in 3 or so days.

I don't know wtf this clommy is supposed to do but if its to make me a numb dumbass loser then its working and i aint no dumbass loser.

Nardil helped me build up a little bit of life, ie get a job, this **** is breaking it all down around me!!

Last time i drunk was new yrs eve, time before that was summer, before that boxing day.

Thats how often i drink these days, if i want to feel like this every day i can abuse alcohol for that. i'm certainly not going to choose to feel like this.

I felt embarrassed getting the ciders because i show all the symptoms of an alchoholic, yet i don't flucking drink!!!


----------



## V1bzz

Bet @SFC01 is going mad not being able to post. this is when he usually talks me down from drastic measures!

how long are these temporary bans anyway? i cant see that he did anything wrong!

and where the fluck is @Tandorini @watertouch @WillComp @Gillman fan

where the hell has everyone gone!!


----------



## V1bzz

karenw said:


> Don't think you can PM if banned, if it's what I think it's obviously been deleted.


will you tell me what happened. obviously dont say the thing that causes bannings but put it into another way.

I need to take my mind of how im feeling, just took me 5 mins to make a roll up my hands are shaking so badly!


----------



## V1bzz

karenw said:


> I've messaged you


I have no msg from you =/


----------



## V1bzz

karenw said:


> It's there. I'm guessing ban times can vary.


I have one now. cant believe im drinking my 4th can already. ive been chucking it down my neck just to feel like the clommy head is still there and cider head is there but they are both seperate in my head if that makes any sense no it doesnt. fluck


----------



## V1bzz

Thinking maybe i need to do about 10 co-codamols, see if the opiate sort me out.


----------



## V1bzz

omg i think Karen got banned now. what the frig is going on today :'(


----------



## V1bzz

I cant continue like this, can i overdose on quietepam whatever the **** its called, seroquel.

ive done 7 and im still awake ffs, i need to nap, im just gunna do it all, everything ive got.

have fun you guys, hope you win!

Lee.


----------



## Corprustie

V1bzz said:


> I cant continue like this, can i overdose on quietepam whatever the **** its called, seroquel.
> 
> ive done 7 and im still awake ffs, i need to nap, im just gunna do it all, everything ive got.
> 
> have fun you guys, hope you win!
> 
> Lee.


Hi mate, I've followed this entire thread though I've been scared to post basically haha. I know you've been through and tried so much and I can't imagine the trial, but I really hope you're okay if you did decide to take them all. You probably have far more mystery friends than just me hahah


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Bet @*SFC01* is going mad not being able to post. this is when he usually talks me down from drastic measures!
> 
> how long are these temporary bans anyway? i cant see that he did anything wrong!
> 
> and where the fluck is @*Tandorini* @*watertouch* @*WillComp* @*Gillman fan*
> 
> where the hell has everyone gone!!


Why did SFC01 get a ban?

Well, I'm here, I guess. I'm doing better, and I have plans to go back to work real soon. I've been working a bit all the way, but in a month or so I will be going back to my position, no more special treatment, just a regular employee. Am already working quite a lot, so I am very exhausted. Even though the fatigue is way better at 45 mg than at 60 mg, I still tire easily. The difference now, however, is that I don't get depressed and overpowered by bad thoughts when exposed to stress at work. But yeah, I'm quite exhausted. Hopefully it will get better as I get more and more used to being back to work.

I had my last appointment with the psychologist earlier this week, it actually feels kind of good. I will still be followed by a pdoc (a new one again, surprise, surprise), but other than that, no regular treatment which takes up time and energy.

Sucks to hear you're doing terrible, don't really have any idea what else to tell you. I certainly don't have any advice on treatment, sounds like you are quite experienced and know what works for you and not. The only thing I feel like saying, is that you really should stick to ONE treatment for a certain amount of time. Going up and down on these meds are certain to fukc you up, I know from my own experience that my mood is very sensitive to changes in medication. Try making a plan, commiting to a certain amount of time to stick to whatever treatment you decide upon.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I cant continue like this, can i overdose on quietepam whatever the **** its called, seroquel.
> 
> ive done 7 and im still awake ffs, i need to nap, im just gunna do it all, everything ive got.
> 
> have fun you guys, hope you win!
> 
> Lee.


Didn't see the last page of the thread until I posted a reply. I really hope you didn't end up taking too much serry, please let us know you are okay.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Didn't see the last page of the thread until I posted a reply. I really hope you didn't end up taking too much serry, please let us know you are okay.


I'm ok, still unable to work, this clomipramine is nasty, i shake so bad and am spaced out to the point where i cant function, i cant work or do anything. this sh11t is going to make me lose my job. really dont know what to do to push through these horrible feelings, they just wont let up, no matter what i try. I feel like i have taken a drug overdose every night except the feelings of the overdose don't go away.

Just wish i knew what to do. like is this because im only on 75mg (dropped 25 hoping sides would go, they havent) do i need to go to like 150mg to push through the side effects or will they be even worse up there?

I havent worked since last tuesday and these feelings have not let up at all. if i didnt work it wouldnt matter even though i think i would still consider stopping cos this is just a disgusting way to feel. i look like a drug addict or alcoholic needing my next fix.

This drug is supposed to be amazing once it starts to work but how long have i got to feel like this to get there ffs!!!!


----------



## V1bzz

wonder if modafinil will help?
thats the drug i couldnt remember name of the other day. 
Think i've wrote it correctly.


----------



## V1bzz

Corprustie said:


> Hi mate, I've followed this entire thread though I've been scared to post basically haha. I know you've been through and tried so much and I can't imagine the trial, but I really hope you're okay if you did decide to take them all. You probably have far more mystery friends than just me hahah


Thanks for posting. i'm just an idiot some times because this chit stresses me out. fair play to you for reading this whole thread haha, must have taken some time. think it's near a thousand posts now.

Tomorrow im just gunna have to work. just do my best to drive carefully. sleep like crap on this stuff too so a good nights sleep wouldnt hurt!

I really want to stop taking this stuff but if i can make it through this feeling in my head, this drug is supposed to be really good.

im gunna stick at 75mg until my head clears, i need to be on 150+, just can't see how the fluck im gunna get there at the moment.

don't be too scared to post, just say whatever


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> wonder if modafinil will help?
> thats the drug i couldnt remember name of the other day.
> Think i've wrote it correctly.


Hello Mate, I'm back !! try armodafinil instead, think I sent you that link. I used to prefer moddy but armoddy has now won me over. Go easy with it though as it feels to me as though it could cause a little anxiety in those prone to it.


----------



## Sweeto

Moda is very subtle according to me.. it doesn't even come close to any real stimulant.


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> Moda is very subtle according to me.. it doesn't even come close to any real stimulant.


Armoddy has a little more kick than moda, for me anyway, but yep none of then compare to amphetamines for example - but they are easy to get and can do a job for certain things.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Armoddy has a little more kick than moda, for me anyway, but yep none of then compare to amphetamines for example - but they are easy to get and can do a job for certain things.


welcome back lol. could you drop me the link again as i prob do already have it somewhere but really cant think straight long enough to think where. my iq must be about -50 at the moment. i'm just a flucking mong!


----------



## toolband185

Man clommy is completely out of my system and I know how you was feeling when on it. 

Yesterday I took 2mg of klonopin and omg just like usual I was out at the mall shopping spoke to several people. Dude I even saw this girl and said I like that piercing you have and we started talking for 5mins with me getting her number and we're suppose to meet up today. I swear benzos in my case klonopin should be 1st line treatment. 

In 5 days I start back on Nardil 45mg. My doctor is going to let me augment this time with gapabentin but I really want lyrica but she said it's very expensive and that neurtion was its big sister and worked the same but told her that money wasn't a issue.

So how do I go about making her okay with me getting lyrica instead. 

My plain is to stay low as possible with nardil, continue the .5 klonopin and save on days when I don't need them and use extra if say I have a big event coming up. Also to hopefully augment with lyrica instead of gapabentin.



Sent from my SM-S550TL using Tapatalk


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> welcome back lol. could you drop me the link again as i prob do already have it somewhere but really cant think straight long enough to think where. my iq must be about -50 at the moment. i'm just a flucking mong!


Thanks mate !! 

Here it is -

https://imageandperformance.com/product/waklert-150/

20 squid for 10 x 150mg so may be more expensive than one of these indian pharmacies etc but they have always arrived the day after ordering for me. They use bank transfer as payment which is easy as ****. I could never get my head round all that bitcoin ****.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Thanks mate !!
> 
> Here it is -
> 
> https://imageandperformance.com/product/waklert-150/
> 
> 20 squid for 10 x 150mg so may be more expensive than one of these indian pharmacies etc but they have always arrived the day after ordering for me. They use bank transfer as payment which is easy as ****. I could never get my head round all that bitcoin ****.


Thanks, i may order some now if my brain can handle paying them without messing it up with my current iq of -50


----------



## V1bzz

toolband185 said:


> Man clommy is completely out of my system and I know how you was feeling when on it.
> 
> Yesterday I took 2mg of klonopin and omg just like usual I was out at the mall shopping spoke to several people. Dude I even saw this girl and said I like that piercing you have and we started talking for 5mins with me getting her number and we're suppose to meet up today. I swear benzos in my case klonopin should be 1st line treatment.
> 
> In 5 days I start back on Nardil 45mg. My doctor is going to let me augment this time with gapabentin but I really want lyrica but she said it's very expensive and that neurtion was its big sister and worked the same but told her that money wasn't a issue.
> 
> So how do I go about making her okay with me getting lyrica instead.
> 
> My plain is to stay low as possible with nardil, continue the .5 klonopin and save on days when I don't need them and use extra if say I have a big event coming up. Also to hopefully augment with lyrica instead of gapabentin.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S550TL using Tapatalk


man i wish i could get some of that stuff. I keep pushing for a different benzo but neither my pdoc or my doc will budge from flucking diazepam!!

Could really do with some diazzy right now too, this clommy is flucked up. sleep is terrible, i'm an anxious wired mess.

wondering how much longer i gotta put up with this before i break through. been a damn week now.

man im gunna be so p11ssed if after all this it doesn't bloody work!


----------



## V1bzz

man i am having panic attacks today, my anxiety is through the roof. don't know what to do about work. I cant drive like this, i can barely type like this, i feel like i am in a horrible paranoid dream. totally sick to death of this flucking bullsh11t now. i just feel like im going to explode with anger because its just not letting up. i go to bed each night hoping my head will be clear the next day and its just not, its the same old sh111t day after day after day.

I rang the doctor for a call back, surely there is something they can flucking give me to help with this!!!!!!!!!!

I can't fukcing live like this!!!


----------



## V1bzz

ok so it took 20 mg diazzy to sort my head out today. I was a right mess, haven't felt that bad since before trying Nardil. It was just total anxious mayhem in my mind all day today.

my armoddy will hopefully arrive tomorrow so will see if i can get by on just 10 mg diazzy and use the armoddy to stop me falling asleep like i just did all day. really needed that bit of decent sleep though.

I had decided not to take clommy any more but i just may be able to do it with a diazzy and armoddy combo. well for a few days any way.

I still feel like crap but at least i should be able to drive!


----------



## WillComp

Sorry you're not feeling so well @V1bzz. There's gotta be something out there that'll work for you, man. Maybe going back on Nardil will give you a couple more days of euphoria, the way it did back in '17 when you had those 3 great days. And gradually you'll have more and more until it becomes consistent. If u do, I'd try to go up slowly this time, then keep it stable at 90. You'll probably get those same side effects again, but hey, they're fun. &#128524;

I was a wreck before nardil, was in hell and survival mode every day. I think if it worked for me, it could eventually work for anyone. And if not, keep trying different medicine. You deserve peace and happiness.. it'll eventually come for you. It's amazing when it does.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Sorry you're not feeling so well @V1bzz. There's gotta be something out there that'll work for you, man. Maybe going back on Nardil will give you a couple more days of euphoria, the way it did back in '17 when you had those 3 great days. And gradually you'll have more and more until it becomes consistent. If u do, I'd try to go up slowly this time, then keep it stable at 90. You'll probably get those same side effects again, but hey, they're fun. &#128524;
> 
> I was a wreck before nardil, was in hell and survival mode every day. I think if it worked for me, it could eventually work for anyone. And if not, keep trying different medicine. You deserve peace and happiness.. it'll eventually come for you. It's amazing when it does.


I think i broke the camels back as they say yesterday, is that what they say?
since doing the 20 mg diazzy my head has been much clearer and i should be ok to drive today.
I honestly still feel like crapola but the biggest worry was not being able to drive.

I had a great full nights sleep last night too that i can remember. started to toss and turn this morning just before my alarm went off. maybe i havent been giving diazzy enough credit, it really does help when you are a complete mess.

i've taken just 5 mg this morning so far and will see how that makes me feel. I cant have another day like yesterday, it was the hell i had forgotten about. all my symptoms back, panic attacks, paranoia that everyone was judging me, just the horrible nightmare life i used to have.

Hoping my armoddy comes in the post today as i think that will clear my head completely. I just need to be able to drive safely, not drive with how my head was.

so gotta give credit where credit is due to diazzy, big +1 for it, for bringing me down yesterday and allowing me to get a full nights sleep.

I just feel like i have really bad flu now but i feel im back inside my own head abit more and not that horrible dream state i was in.

I'm figuring i just got to deal with two more days then we have a few days off for easter (well i hope we dont work these holidays)

How you been feeling lately?


----------



## WillComp

That's gotta suck feeling sick like that. When I felt like that, the best treatment was a few days off from work. The rest and relaxation did a world of good. Hope you get a nice break next week.

I'm doing well, thanks for asking. Still on 75 and its been remarkably consistent. Haven't felt a dip in mood or rebound in SA for several months now, so all's good.

I have no discipline though. Since I'm always on cloud 9, I feel like living it up. Like tonight, I just stayed up watching TV and not feeling tired, so I stay up and finally go to sleep at 2am. My alarm rings in 3 hrs, not much sleep, and I'll probably be completely out of it for a couple days as a result. I'll wake up and have as many bowls of cereal till I feel full. Everything is tasty esp cereal, it's euphoric. Oh, and zero episodes of dizziness for several months now. Still popping caffeine pills to stay awake at work, and I'm in the middle of a 90 day "no fap" period, which might do the trick when 90 days R uP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> That's gotta suck feeling sick like that. When I felt like that, the best treatment was a few days off from work. The rest and relaxation did a world of good. Hope you get a nice break next week.
> 
> I'm doing well, thanks for asking. Still on 75 and its been remarkably consistent. Haven't felt a dip in mood or rebound in SA for several months now, so all's good.
> 
> I have no discipline though. Since I'm always on cloud 9, I feel like living it up. Like tonight, I just stayed up watching TV and not feeling tired, so I stay up and finally go to sleep at 2am. My alarm rings in 3 hrs, not much sleep, and I'll probably be completely out of it for a couple days as a result. I'll wake up and have as many bowls of cereal till I feel full. Everything is tasty esp cereal, it's euphoric. Oh, and zero episodes of dizziness for several months now. Still popping caffeine pills to stay awake at work, and I'm in the middle of a 90 day "no fap" period, which might do the trick when 90 days R uP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man it sounds like you are in a really good place. I have pushed through the worst of the side effects now, just feel tired you know, a bit like nardil does.
The way this drug made me feel when it was rewiring was flucking awful so I have hope that this drug may actually do the trick, plus, i can add other drugs to it as well.
I actually smiled and giggled today so something is improving, i had lost my smile for a while there.

I've just done 4 hours work and feel so tired, really hope i don't get any more today but that is highly unlikely as its only 10:13am :frown2: lol

My armoddy will be here today so will be lying on the ground below the letter box ready to do one as soon as they come through the door lol.

I have definitely turned the corner, it was a long @$$ bend but now i wait to see how effective this drug can be for me. Still a long way to go yet, 100mg is still a really low dose. Through experience I know it usually takes the highest amount i can take to be effective.

hey, hopefully not though, its a new drug, its a different drug and it is strong as ****. Just hoping for some magic to happen!

Flipping spoke too soon, phone rang, more jobs!!!! ugh


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 so i got up at 0530 instantly dropped a armoddy, diazzy and x2 co-codamols. Found myself talking sh1t to the boss of where i had to make a collection for delivery for about 20 minutes about the headlamp on my van lol.

Felt more positive and felt like doing something. It wore off about an hour ago i would say, shame it doesn't last all day!

but hey ho, i just dropped another one with a diazzy. Really made me feel like doing something, like going to the pub, just getting out. that never happens to me, ever!!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* so i got up at 0530 instantly dropped a armoddy, diazzy and x2 co-codamols. Found myself talking sh1t to the boss of where i had to make a collection for delivery for about 20 minutes about the headlamp on my van lol.
> 
> Felt more positive and felt like doing something. It wore off about an hour ago i would say, shame it doesn't last all day!
> 
> but hey ho, i just dropped another one with a diazzy. Really made me feel like doing something, like going to the pub, just getting out. that never happens to me, ever!!


wicked mate, glad it helped. Did you use that site I linked in ? I think moddy or armoddy used correctly would be great for depression as an add on, as it definitely adds something positive for mood as well as the wakefulness.

Early am and another around now is perfect for me too but I wouldn't take anymore now though as it may affect sleep, and cause some edgeiness but if you have the diazzy and quetiapine you should be ok. I`ll have to get myself some more and try and make it last this time.

Also, remember your post during my ban about popping the nardil with the clommy - I wouldn't risk that at all, in case it crosses your mind again.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> wicked mate, glad it helped. Did you use that site I linked in ? I think moddy or armoddy used correctly would be great for depression as an add on, as it definitely adds something positive for mood as well as the wakefulness.
> 
> Early am and another around now is perfect for me too but I wouldn't take anymore now though as it may affect sleep, and cause some edgeiness but if you have the diazzy and quetiapine you should be ok. I`ll have to get myself some more and try and make it last this time.
> 
> Also, remember your post during my ban about popping the nardil with the clommy - I wouldn't risk that at all, in case it crosses your mind again.


Yeah i started to feel a bit edgy maybe, let me think (counting fingers lol) maybe 4hrs or so after taking.
mate the second drop has just kicked in and i feel ****ing awesome, must be the diazzy, armoddy combo.

man it makes a flucking change for me to feel like this. i know i know poor old Lee, but it really is true, i smiled yesterday and it felt weird on my face where it had been so damn long!!

I just set up the decks, need to get some tunes going. if i do a live feed will post the link here. prob just be audio though as i'm not yet at the stage to feel comfortable on camera.

I'll sort summin do we can chat while i spin some tunage


----------



## V1bzz

I'm just trying to set up the audio so it sounds decent. go in the chat and let me know how it sounds please. anyone


----------



## Blue Table Space

V1bzz said:


> I'm just trying to set up the audio so it sounds decent. go in the chat and let me know how it sounds please. anyone


Nice! Cool to see another music enthusiast. Whats your setup like ?


----------



## V1bzz

Blue Table Space said:


> Nice! Cool to see another music enthusiast. Whats your setup like ?


I just recently got some Pioneer DDJ-RB's cos i figured it was about time i taught myself how to mix how its done these days and not on my 1210's that i used to have yrs and yrs ago lol.

so just that and my studio monitors because i produce house music, have done for about 3 yrs
here's one with a cool video...




because ddj-rb's basically have a usb b going to a normal usb that plugs into the laptop, i'm finding it hard to route through my lexicon alpha.....on a side note, maybe done too much armoddy, im gurning lol!!!

actually i think i have a pic, lets see if i can find it.....got it...









I managed to get it sounding great on twitch but i had no sound my end, only through my headphones, making it really difficult to mix lol.

holy sh11t i'm gurning and tensing my jaw like a mo fo >


----------



## V1bzz

So pissed off right now, Finished last night which is probably the best track i've ever made. forgot i had my external hard drive plugged in and moved my laptop making said hard drive fall on the floor.....now its not working, i save all my work to external hard drives along with my tracks and samples, like 66,000 samples. hard drive is making clicking noises. dear oh dear, it's one thing after another!!


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 - Done 600 mg of armoddy, naughty me >:nerd:

man i haven't touch speed since 1995, i think it really isn't that far off from feeling like i've done a quarter gram of pure speed or summin. without the euphoria though, my brain doesn't let me feel that any more :frown2:

not far off this dude.....


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I'll sort summin do we can chat while i spin some tunage


Cool mate, you will leave out Little Mix this time wont you ?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* - Done 600 mg of armoddy, naughty me >:nerd:
> 
> man i haven't touch speed since 1995, i think it really isn't that far off from feeling like i've done a quarter gram of pure speed or summin. without the euphoria though, my brain doesn't let me feel that any more :frown2:
> 
> not far off this dude.....


:grin2: faf - it can feel a bit speedy, and its easy to drop another few pills still, as I know !!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> :grin2: faf - it can feel a bit speedy, and its easy to drop another few pills still, as I know !!


How many you done at once then? haha want to know now >

I'm just waiting for the 4th one to breakthrough now, my mouth and tongue is getting sore as **** already :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> How many you done at once then? haha want to know now >
> 
> I'm just waiting for the 4th one to breakthrough now, my mouth and tongue is getting sore as **** already :grin2:


Only a couple in one go, and definitely not a whole sheet of 10 in one day, definitely, not me, I wouldn't do that 

It can give your a sore mouth for a few days though mate, also, the amount time I've bit my cheek on it when eating, and then keep biting the same bit.


----------



## SFC01

if, just for example, i did try taking a whole 10 sheet in one day, I think at some point there wouldn't be anything that would be interesting enough to do so may get a bit irritated !! I would stay at 4 mate - do as I say not as I do haha.


----------



## Blue Table Space

V1bzz said:


> I just recently got some Pioneer DDJ-RB's cos i figured it was about time i taught myself how to mix how its done these days and not on my 1210's that i used to have yrs and yrs ago lol.
> 
> so just that and my studio monitors because i produce house music, have done for about 3 yrs
> here's one with a cool video...
> 
> because ddj-rb's basically have a usb b going to a normal usb that plugs into the laptop, i'm finding it hard to route through my lexicon alpha.....on a side note, maybe done too much armoddy, im gurning lol!!!


Nice work! I never got into Djing myself sadly. My cousin even left a set of Pioneers back in my studio a good while ago and I never got around to putting in the time to learning them. Should have heard my first attempts though, was bloody awful haha.

Big ups for the Music production too. Been at it myself for a good few years now as well, just can't get enough of it!. Since getting Modafinil i can say now with confidence that Modafinil and Coffee are a musicians friend haha. I've lost far too many hours to it cause of mod 

You'll have to PM your music sometime if you haven't got it up online somewhere. Always love to hear other peoples music


----------



## Blue Table Space

SFC01 said:


> if, just for example, i did try taking a whole 10 sheet in one day, I think at some point there wouldn't be anything that would be interesting enough to do so may get a bit irritated !! I would stay at 4 mate - do as I say not as I do haha.


Christ, I think if one were to take that much they'd transcend human consciousness and temporarily exist in the 4th plane of existence.


----------



## SFC01

Blue Table Space said:


> Christ, I think if one were to take that much they'd transcend human consciousness and temporarily exist in the 4th plane of existence.


Perhaps one did !! :laugh:

Do you think I should still try for a prescription ? haha


----------



## SFC01

I think @V1bzz is now on his 6th armoddy and desperately looking around for something exciting enough to do


----------



## Blue Table Space

SFC01 said:


> Perhaps one did !! :laugh:
> 
> Do you think I should still try for a prescription ? haha


Records are not there to admire, They're there to be broken >



SFC01 said:


> I think @V1bzz is now on his 6th armoddy and desperately looking around for something exciting enough to do


Give him time. He will soon T̴̖̞̩̥̙͓͎̠͈̼̞̻̮̻͌͑̌̏̂̇͊R̴̡͓̩͕̱̗̘͉̈́͑̾̓̏̈́̀̑̾̌̒̚ͅͅA̶̮̖͊̃̏͠Ñ̸̡̦̺̙͓̬̝͈̹͈̠̩̓͑͋̔̓̀͆̕S̶̭͗̄̚C̷͎̠͌̀̾̉̋̓̒̋̓̕͝É̸͚̦͓̦̥̹̖̑̈̍̃͋̇͜͠Ņ̸̢̹̠̫͎̯͇̓̈́̎̿̾͜ͅḐ̵̢̢͔̟̻̣̟̺̯͈͐̈́̉͂̆͒̐̊̍͠͠͝ ̸̟̜͂̔͗̉̾͌́̾̐̏̕̚͘͝


----------



## SFC01

Blue Table Space said:


> Records are not there to admire, They're there to be broken >


I`ll show you pal !! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp needs to get some of these, talk about making me feel damn horny!!


----------



## V1bzz

Blue Table Space said:


> Nice work! I never got into Djing myself sadly. My cousin even left a set of Pioneers back in my studio a good while ago and I never got around to putting in the time to learning them. Should have heard my first attempts though, was bloody awful haha.
> 
> Big ups for the Music production too. Been at it myself for a good few years now as well, just can't get enough of it!. Since getting Modafinil i can say now with confidence that Modafinil and Coffee are a musicians friend haha. I've lost far too many hours to it cause of mod
> 
> You'll have to PM your music sometime if you haven't got it up online somewhere. Always love to hear other peoples music


It's never too late. You are young, start practicing on the decks now and in a few yrs time you could be rocking the biggest clubs in the world!

Google me dude 'V1bzz' my highlight of 2017 (or was it 2016) was google recognising me as an artist so when you type my name in it has info on the right side :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I think @V1bzz is now on his 6th armoddy and desperately looking around for something exciting enough to do


LOL I ended up doing a facebook live thing and played house music for about 3 hours, was starting to feel the usual speed type come downs, bit on edge and horny so just dropped another one to ease the transition. Only done 5 today and 5 diazepam with some co-codamols mixed in.

and yeah, the tongue and cheeks are already demolished lol. for some weird reason my legs are sore a fkuc, as if i've been dancing all night but i aint :boogie


----------



## V1bzz

Dunnp if you guys will be able to watch this?




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10213889837098531



Start from about 19mins. was trying to sort out the damn audio all that time.

I start house then go tech house for abit. 1 handed mixing so i could hold the phone lol
@SFC01 @Blue Table Space


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Dunnp if you guys will be able to watch this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10213889837098531
> 
> 
> 
> Start from about 19mins. was trying to sort out the damn audio all that time.
> 
> I start house then go tech house for abit. 1 handed mixing so i could hold the phone lol
> @*SFC01* @*Blue Table Space*


Wicked stuff fella, with one hand as well !! listened to 25 mins so far but will stick the rest on later during my work out. At least I can whack the volume up then as it 5.30AM at the moment  (nardil early morning stage for me right now).

How was your kip on armoddy last night?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Wicked stuff fella, with one hand as well !! listened to 25 mins so far but will stick the rest on later during my work out. At least I can whack the volume up then as it 5.30AM at the moment  (nardil early morning stage for me right now).
> 
> How was your kip on armoddy last night?


mate i slept like a log, seriously, but am also going through the boom wide awake phase on the clommy...only difference is that i don't feel excited/motivated that i need to crack on with something.

I think i have a slight armoddy hangover so going to take another one to ease that up. (any damn excuse lol) typical 90's raver mindset!

Think i will order some more armoddy and just use them at the weekend for music motivation and general life motivation.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> mate i slept like a log, seriously, but am also going through the boom wide awake phase on the clommy...only difference is that i don't feel excited/motivated that i need to crack on with something.
> 
> I think i have a slight armoddy hangover so going to take another one to ease that up. (any damn excuse lol) typical 90's raver mindset!
> 
> Think i will order some more armoddy and just use them at the weekend for music motivation and general life motivation.


Cool mate, yes moddy or armoddy are probably best taken 3/4 times a week rather than everyday. As Blue Table Space said yesterday on another thread, sometimes its nice to have a nap in the afternoon or something, rather than being constantly hyped up. Would imagine there are some tolerance issues as well.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Cool mate, yes moddy or armoddy are probably best taken 3/4 times a week rather than everyday. As Blue Table Space said yesterday on another thread, sometimes its nice to have a nap in the afternoon or something, rather than being constantly hyped up. Would imagine there are some tolerance issues as well.


Yeah I do enjoy my afternoon naps at the weekend.

have you tried snorting it yet?

I've dropped 2 armoddy now 
I just can't resist a buzz!!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Cool mate, yes moddy or armoddy are probably best taken 3/4 times a week rather than everyday. As Blue Table Space said yesterday on another thread, sometimes its nice to have a nap in the afternoon or something, rather than being constantly hyped up. Would imagine there are some tolerance issues as well.


I even get the come up yawns on armoddy lol.

well i think the clommy makes me yawn too so lots of yawning going to be going on today lol.
Jaw is just starting to gurn again ffs

EDIT - forgot to say im going to ask my pdoc next week for this. will tell him how effective it is for my anhedonia, or maybe he has an even better alternative


----------



## V1bzz

Damn jaw is aching like fluck!!!!


----------



## V1bzz

fUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I CANT EVEN REMEMBER BUT I MUST HAVE TAKEN MY LAST 4 ARMODAFINIL. JOKE IS I CANT REMEMBER TAKING THEM FFS


----------



## V1bzz

Im doing some zero ****s given mixes lol


----------



## V1bzz

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10213897761416634


----------



## V1bzz

Fluck at some point i must have done the rest of the armoddy

BIT FUBAREED RIGHT NOW ****ing caps lock lol


----------



## V1bzz

even more fubared now glad that i came to check here to try and find clues about what i did with the rest of my armoddy.

**** i cant find them so i prob did take them ffs. i say this alot to myself....when you drink write down **** that you do!!!

i do feel pretty fubared mind, totally off my rocker. i like done a facebook live house set for flucking hours man


----------



## V1bzz

still feeling flucked, just taken my clommy so hopefully it will settle me down. my jaw is frigging killing me!


----------



## Sweeto

Hi mate, just want to ask you how did you feel on Nardil in regards to your energy level during day? I felt like on meth or coke 24/7. I haven't had more energy ever before.


----------



## GlasgowGuy

Hi V1bzz have read your whole thread quite a journey. Was wondering how you doing with the clomipramine know its still early but how do u rate it so far.

Am seeing my shrink on Monday and am going to ask her for some clomipramine hoping the ***** will let me try it as am running out of options would not let me try Nardil didn't even know what it was. Have tried any number of meds over the years. Have Depression, anxiety and OCD .


----------



## Corprustie

I’m having to withdraw from Nardil at the moment cause of liver results, to get switched over to Parnate. I’m down to 30mg from 75mg and I literally start crying as soon as I wake up, before I’m even actually conscious hahah. But lithium orotate is doing an incredible job of keeping me pretty stable moodwise, I’m really impressed…


----------



## Sweeto

Is Nardil so harmful to liver?


----------



## Blue Table Space

Corprustie said:


> I'm having to withdraw from Nardil at the moment cause of liver results, to get switched over to Parnate. I'm down to 30mg from 75mg and I literally start crying as soon as I wake up, before I'm even actually conscious hahah. But lithium orotate is doing an incredible job of keeping me pretty stable moodwise, I'm really impressed&#8230;


Would you care to explain a little further about your liver results ? I too am a little curious as to why you had to drop Nardil because of this.


----------



## V1bzz

Yeah Nardil does cause liver problems sometimes. but its rare i believe.

you are supposed to get a blood test or whatever done after a few months of use


----------



## V1bzz

GlasgowGuy said:


> Hi V1bzz have read your whole thread quite a journey. Was wondering how you doing with the clomipramine know its still early but how do u rate it so far.
> 
> Am seeing my shrink on Monday and am going to ask her for some clomipramine hoping the ***** will let me try it as am running out of options would not let me try Nardil didn't even know what it was. Have tried any number of meds over the years. Have Depression, anxiety and OCD .


wow your pdoc didn't know what nardil was....did you say phenelzine to him too? don't forget pdocs only go by the proper names. my pdoc didnt know what nardil was until i said phenelzine.

It's too early for me on the clomipramine but it sounds like it would be a very effective drug for you, its supposed to be excellent for ocd, my pdoc was telling me just yesterday how a couple of his patients are doing really well on it.

dude, about the 3rd week in on clomipramine i was in hell for a week, it was horrible, i was a nervous wreck, having panic attacks, just all the horrible stuff. i dont know if it was a coincidence but after 7 days of it i couldnt cope anymore and decided i was going to stop. weird thing is my gp gave me some diazepam that day and as soon as i got them i done 20mg. it made me fall to sleep but when i woke everything was much better. my head had cleared and everything was calmer inside. i decided to continue and am now going to take my first dose of 150mg tonight.

I expect, i hope, i pray lol that within the next week or two i can say it is really working. i was ruminating about old times in my head today at work and it was making me feel sad and depressed. i think i need to be stable at 150mg now, feel sh111t again for a bit then hopefully it will be magical for me.

I have read many threads of people saying how magnificent this drug is if you can get past the horrible side effects at the beginning.

dont forgot to say phenelzine to your pdoc. if she doesn't know what that is you should ask to see a different pdoc with more experience.
you said her...is she fit lol??? i was hoping to have a woman, i was fantasizing about her being really sexy and us having sex and sh11t during the meetings.

my typical flucked up mind dreaming on again. my pdoc is nice but is abit of a ***** to let me try different thing on nardil.
I said to him yesterday if i go back to nardil i will want to try pregabalin or something with it and he agreed.

if i could take parnate and nardil together my life would be sorted!


----------



## V1bzz

Corprustie said:


> I'm having to withdraw from Nardil at the moment cause of liver results, to get switched over to Parnate. I'm down to 30mg from 75mg and I literally start crying as soon as I wake up, before I'm even actually conscious hahah. But lithium orotate is doing an incredible job of keeping me pretty stable moodwise, I'm really impressed&#8230;


I feel gutted for you, hopefully parnate will work great for you, its better than nardil for depression.


----------



## Corprustie

Blue Table Space said:


> Would you care to explain a little further about your liver results ? I too am a little curious as to why you had to drop Nardil because of this.


My liver enzyme results were getting increasingly deranged correlating with dose: no problems at 45, minor at 60, and I never saw my results for 75, but the lead consultant for my county phoned me at 10pm on a Sunday to tell me to stop hahaha. So I was really upset but ironically I got over it quickly at the time because I was still on 75mg  I'd be a shocking state if it wasn't for my eBay lithium but it's keeping me going quite well !!



V1bzz said:


> I feel gutted for you, hopefully parnate will work great for you, its better than nardil for depression.


Thanks a lot mate! It was a shame because at 75 it was finally working like people talk about&#8230; but we've already spoken about the probable need to go above BNF doses with Parnate so I'm optimistic!


----------



## V1bzz

Corprustie said:


> My liver enzyme results were getting increasingly deranged correlating with dose: no problems at 45, minor at 60, and I never saw my results for 75, but the lead consultant for my county phoned me at 10pm on a Sunday to tell me to stop hahaha. So I was really upset but ironically I got over it quickly at the time because I was still on 75mg  I'd be a shocking state if it wasn't for my eBay lithium but it's keeping me going quite well !!
> 
> Thanks a lot mate! It was a shame because at 75 it was finally working like people talk about&#8230; but we've already spoken about the probable need to go above BNF doses with Parnate so I'm optimistic!


That's the only trouble i have with my pdoc is that he will not go above the dosage that his stupid piece of sh111t book tells him. he would only let me do 30mg of parnate, i found ways to take 50/60 for a month. helped with a mood lift when it kicked in but didnt help my anxiety which is a complex mess of many different types of anxiety. like every anxiety there is, that's me then add on really bad paranoia and that my life.

I'm going to try some lithium orate to see if it helps get rid of this damn anhedonia i feel like i've had for ages now.

I'm worried about going back to nardil, not because of the drug but because i bet my pdoc will only allow max dose of 45mg which is flucking bullsh11t.

I will want to go to 60 minimum and hold it there while also taking pregabalin.

anyway, im getting ahead of myself, maybe a month or two away if the clommy doesnt work.
i'm at 150mg now and just keeping it here for a while now.

I miss taking nardil, i gave it a year though and had terrible side effects all the way through but even though it didn't fully work for me it did help with alot of different bits of anxiety for me, just not the social phobia part.
I love how motivated to work it made me, i have zero motivation to do anything at the moment.

umm bit of a rant there lol

will let you guys know if this clommy is going to do any good for me, nothing so far but it's early days.


----------



## V1bzz

Took 3 armoddy about 7pm and felt good, relaxed and mentally at peace but cos im such a buzz rat i went and dropped another 4. i'm playing COD lol


----------



## V1bzz

Now i'm fubared lol.

if you play ps4 add me

Squirtypooptube


----------



## V1bzz

Yes I'm still awake at 6am. Been trying to sleep for 3 hrs. Not happening.

My own fault though for dropping 3 at seven then another 4 about 10ish.

I just remembered I have 3 cans of cider in my wardrobe so having 1 hoping it will settle me down for a bit


----------



## Blue Table Space

Corprustie said:


> My liver enzyme results were getting increasingly deranged correlating with dose: no problems at 45, minor at 60, and I never saw my results for 75, but the lead consultant for my county phoned me at 10pm on a Sunday to tell me to stop hahaha. So I was really upset but ironically I got over it quickly at the time because I was still on 75mg  I'd be a shocking state if it wasn't for my eBay lithium but it's keeping me going quite well !!


Sorry to hear. Hopefully Parnate will be much more agreeable with your liver.

Good luck on the transition!


----------



## V1bzz

sorry i haven't posted in a while, work has been running me ragged. been too tired to do anything.

how is everyone?

so far no improvement yet, i had a course on tuesday and barely spoke a word all day cos i felt so anxious and nervous.

at the moment i am feeling really tired and have horrendous dry mouth that nothing seems to cure. diet coke and chewing gums used to help with that on nardil but nothing works on this.
Been having thoughts about only have to live like this until my parents pass. Then i can go to Switzerland and get that injection to end it all. it feels like something to look forward to at the moment.

I'm not saying this from a depressed point of view, just a view of having lived like this for nearly 20yrs now and being utterly fed up with it all. I am destined to live the rest of my life unhappy and alone as my mental health doesn't allow me to go anywhere to meet someone special. plus i'm still heart broken from what i ruined in 2012. I honestly felt like i had met the one, it was perfect, i got sick and destroyed everything beyond repair. I made someone who was falling in love with me one day to hating me 3 or so weeks later. anyway.

Bored of this life and living like this, stuck in the past, feeling pain in my heart and not being able to make new happy memories because i never leave the house.
maybe my life will improve soon but i doubt it, no medication works for me.

sorry that post sounds so depressing, hope you are all feeling happy


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> sorry i haven't posted in a while, work has been running me ragged. been too tired to do anything.
> 
> how is everyone?
> 
> so far no improvement yet, i had a course on tuesday and barely spoke a word all day cos i felt so anxious and nervous.
> 
> at the moment i am feeling really tired and have horrendous dry mouth that nothing seems to cure. diet coke and chewing gums used to help with that on nardil but nothing works on this.
> Been having thoughts about only have to live like this until my parents pass. Then i can go to Switzerland and get that injection to end it all. it feels like something to look forward to at the moment.
> 
> I'm not saying this from a depressed point of view, just a view of having lived like this for nearly 20yrs now and being utterly fed up with it all. I am destined to live the rest of my life unhappy and alone as my mental health doesn't allow me to go anywhere to meet someone special. plus i'm still heart broken from what i ruined in 2012. I honestly felt like i had met the one, it was perfect, i got sick and destroyed everything beyond repair. I made someone who was falling in love with me one day to hating me 3 or so weeks later. anyway.
> 
> Bored of this life and living like this, stuck in the past, feeling pain in my heart and not being able to make new happy memories because i never leave the house.
> maybe my life will improve soon but i doubt it, no medication works for me.
> 
> sorry that post sounds so depressing, hope you are all feeling happy


Hi Mate, sorry to hear you are still feeling so bad - clommy will give you a dry mouth due to the anticholinergic.

I know nothing about it, but would you consider Electroconvulsive Therapy?

20 years of depression, no response to even powerful ad's like MAOI's, and you have mentioned suicide a few times before.

It looks safe, and from what I can remember the few people who have had it on here had success with it. Just look into cos I wanna see you fixed.


----------



## Hordak

V1bzz said:


> and where the fluck is @Tandorini @watertouch @WillComp @Gillman fan


I hope they are okay... :serious:


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi Mate, sorry to hear you are still feeling so bad - clommy will give you a dry mouth due to the anticholinergic.
> 
> I know nothing about it, but would you consider Electroconvulsive Therapy?
> 
> 20 years of depression, no response to even powerful ad's like MAOI's, and you have mentioned suicide a few times before.
> 
> It looks safe, and from what I can remember the few people who have had it on here had success with it. Just look into cos I wanna see you fixed.


Was talking about it with the pdoc a few weeks back, they basically shock your brain so you have a epileptic seizure.
supposed to reset the brain.

I really don't like the sound of it at all! think its for depression anyway and i know i sound it but im not feeling depressed at the moment. just sick of everything else.

I don't believe we die and thats it, im not scared of death, unless i die by drowning. not up for that. i believe we are energy and we just move on to the next level of existence, maybe as just energy (soul)..or possibly you are just reborn into another vessel, body..who knows.
I've always kinda figured you just ascended to the next level of consciousness.

rushed in today around lunch time to get myself some more armoddy, hopefully it will come tomorrow as i can feel my head dropping back into that surreal place where i will be unable to drive again. i guess this is the 150 kicking in.

tell you what, this dry mouth, the struggle is real. Can't even talk properly!


----------



## Moses Chol

Idk how many meds you are trying. But has it ever happen that a side effect went awa after time? It seeems you've had same side effects. I hope some went away man, because i'm having one side effect from respirdal: boredom. I hope it goes away soon.

Here something i just read: https://blog.iodine.com/hang-in-there-your-new-meds-side-effects-will-probably-pass-1656a6a1e2


----------



## V1bzz

Moses Chol said:


> Idk how many meds you are trying. But has it ever happen that a side effect went awa after time? It seeems you've had same side effects. I hope some went away man, because i'm having one side effect from respirdal: boredom. I hope it goes away soon.
> 
> Here something i just read: https://blog.iodine.com/hang-in-there-your-new-meds-side-effects-will-probably-pass-1656a6a1e2


The clomipramine is still making me feel like crap every day. i feel like i don't want to work or do anything yet i am bored and lonely at the same time.

still waiting to feel some positive effects from this med, so far it just makes me feel on edge and gives me very shaky hands.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> The clomipramine is still making me feel like crap every day. i feel like i don't want to work or do anything yet i am bored and lonely at the same time.
> 
> still waiting to feel some positive effects from this med, so far it just makes me feel on edge and gives me very shaky hands.


can you not get any lyrica off the doc this week to take that edgy feeling away mate?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> can you not get any lyrica off the doc this week to take that edgy feeling away mate?


I don't see him now for 4 more weeks or so, if i still feel like crap then i will switch back to nardil. only need to wait a couple of days after stopping clomipramine.
I am going to have to put in another rx for some diazepam. its weird because a fog kinda builds up in my head that leads to manic behaviour and mood swings and panic attacks. the only thing to stop the cycle when i got that bad was to drop 4 diazepams. within a couple of hours my head is clear again.

Hate the way i cant think straight. I think i have only been on 150mg for 2 weeks (if that) so hopefully something beneficial starts to happen. don't like feeling on the edge of a nervous breakdown every damn day without diazzy ugh


----------



## V1bzz

oh my armoddy should be here tomorrow. i'm hoping that will clear my head and give me abit of motivation.

I know the last time i did 3 in one go i was feeling good and calm but i ruined it by the doing another 4 and ended up not being able to sleep to the next afternoon lol.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I don't see him now for 4 more weeks or so, if i still feel like crap then i will switch back to nardil. only need to wait a couple of days after stopping clomipramine.
> I am going to have to put in another rx for some diazepam. its weird because a fog kinda builds up in my head that leads to manic behaviour and mood swings and panic attacks. the only thing to stop the cycle when i got that bad was to drop 4 diazepams. within a couple of hours my head is clear again.
> 
> Hate the way i cant think straight. I think i have only been on 150mg for 2 weeks (if that) so hopefully something beneficial starts to happen. don't like feeling on the edge of a nervous breakdown every damn day without diazzy ugh


Maybe you would benefit from some long term benzo treatment? Quite a few on here do from what I have read, something like clonazapam -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam

I know there are certain risks re withdrawal etc but antidperessants seem to be doing nothing for you. When I read some of your posts describing the mood you are in, if I was in that boat, I'd definitely be weighing up the pros and cons. Maybe some thought of therapy, even if you have tried before without success.


----------



## Sweeto

Yesterday I took 140mg of Ritalin instead of 70mg because I thought pills was 10mg and they weren't. But no hypertension crisis despite 60mg Nardil daily.

My question is, could such a high dose of Ritalin influence/cancel onset of action of Nardil? Or is it just my irrational fear?


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> Yesterday I took 140mg of Ritalin instead of 70mg because I thought pills was 10mg and they weren't. But no hypertension crisis despite 60mg Nardil daily.
> 
> My question is, could such a high dose of Ritalin influence/cancel onset of action of Nardil? Or is it just my irrational fear?


I don't how ritalin compares to amphetamine but it shouldn't effect nardil action at all, may be a crash from ritalin especially if no sleep but otherwise nothing to worry about


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Maybe you would benefit from some long term benzo treatment? Quite a few on here do from what I have read, something like clonazapam -
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam
> 
> I know there are certain risks re withdrawal etc but antidperessants seem to be doing nothing for you. When I read some of your posts describing the mood you are in, if I was in that boat, I'd definitely be weighing up the pros and cons. Maybe some thought of therapy, even if you have tried before without success.


I have tried and tried and tried, the only benzo they will give me is diazzy


----------



## V1bzz

It will start to work soon, if nothing in the next two weeks i will go back to nardil myself. i have some sitting waiting for me in the fridge. all i do is ring the pdoc secretary, tell her to tell him im going back and it is done. I will stop clommy then the next day start on the nardil again. pdoc said theres only a 2 day wash out period from clommy to nardil.

I had forgot I had BDD until i came off the maoi's, they are really good for that!
I don't obsess over my looks though, i just see an ugly cnut every time i look in the mirror.
Forgot i had it for a year but its back.

clommy is supposed to be great for it so its not working yet for me, something will happen in the next two weeks im sure.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> It will start to work soon, if nothing in the next two weeks i will go back to nardil myself. i have some sitting waiting for me in the fridge. all i do is ring the pdoc secretary, tell her to tell him im going back and it is done. I will stop clommy then the next day start on the nardil again. pdoc said theres only a 2 day wash out period from clommy to nardil.


Hi mate, i would just double check on that clommy to nardil wash out period. Not saying I know any different but clommy is one of the TCAs you cant take with nardil.


----------



## Sweeto

Good to hear that. Now I'm jumping to 75mg after being on 60 mg for about 6 days. I'm ready to face the side effects but I strongly believe Nardil will work at least as good as one year ago


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I have tried and tried and tried, the only benzo they will give me is diazzy


Have you asked the pdoc as well or is this just with GP's ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Have you asked the pdoc as well or is this just with GP's ?


Both, both gp and pdoc do not like prescribing benzos and always say no. I ask every time i see the pdoc.
he defo said couple of days wash out period. i've decided if nothing by next sunday then i will stop clommy and not take anything until i cant bare it any more.

will of course google the wash out time. I swear this drug keeps having moments of showing me it can work but its hard to tell because of feeling so spaced out, shaky and wired to borderline breakdown. thats what it feels like, like im balancing on the edge of a cliff. will take 300mg armoddy when i wake up tomorrow, hopefully it will clear my head like taking the 4 diazzy did.

Only then am i able to assess whether this chit is working or not!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Both, both gp and pdoc do not like prescribing benzos and always say no. I ask every time i see the pdoc.
> he defo said couple of days wash out period. i've decided if nothing by next sunday then i will stop clommy and not take anything until i cant bare it any more.
> 
> will of course google the wash out time. I swear this drug keeps having moments of showing me it can work but its hard to tell because of feeling so spaced out, shaky and wired to borderline breakdown. thats what it feels like, like im balancing on the edge of a cliff. will take 300mg armoddy when i wake up tomorrow, hopefully it will clear my head like taking the 4 diazzy did.
> 
> Only then am i able to assess whether this chit is working or not!


That sounds a pain in the arse. You on max dose of clommy now ?


----------



## Sweeto

SFC hi mate how likely is it to get a little hypomania after 12 days on Nardil? I got crazy ideas like to take plane and travel to NYC tomorrow, absolutely crazy. Although I'm not depression free yet


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> That sounds a pain in the arse. You on max dose of clommy now ?


I'm on 150mg, i've had enough of this med now but have just been reading 3 weeks washout before i can take nardil again.

Really don't know what to do now, i'm tired of waking up every day feeling unmotivated and tired with no drive.
I have really bad tremors in my hands where it's getting hard to write or hold a cup of tea etc without it going everywhere.

I just want off this chit now.


----------



## V1bzz

I'm ringing the pdoc today and am going to demand for clomazepam for two weeks so i can get off this sh1it without having to take 2 weeks off work.

Just can't handle it any more. just tried to ring but they dont open until 9am

450mg armoddy and no effect yet. took 300mg an hour and a half ago and have taken another 150mg now.


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> SFC hi mate how likely is it to get a little hypomania after 12 days on Nardil? I got crazy ideas like to take plane and travel to NYC tomorrow, absolutely crazy. Although I'm not depression free yet


Didn't happen to me Sweeto but can be resaonably common.

I do get time where motivation etc gets really high and you dont want or feel like bed and you wake up really early, kind of excited and ready to crack on with things but not had any jump on a plane moments


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 i've had to txt my boss to say i can't work today. this is too much now, im going to have to tell them wtf is going on with me. can't keep lying saying i have a chest infection.

I was so keen when i started this job and really enjoyed it. i now hate it and dont want to do anything. i've rang the secretary and told her to tell my pdoc i have to get something strong like clonazepam today to take for 2 weeks while i flush this crap out of my system. told them how sick i am right now with the tremors, panic attacks, anxiety etc etc.

I can't believe this, since stopping nardil i have quit my business, got a new job and hate working. I have gone downhill really badly.
Nardil is way off being a cure for me but being off of it makes me realize how much it helped me mentally, even with all the bad side effects.

Christ i'm a mess today. 450mg armoddy has not effected my mood at all


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> SFC hi mate how likely is it to get a little hypomania after 12 days on Nardil? I got crazy ideas like to take plane and travel to NYC tomorrow, absolutely crazy. Although I'm not depression free yet


I would say its very probable, they say within the first 2 weeks you can get mania, enjoy it but just don't go doing something crazy that when you level out you know you won't be able to handle. ie getting back from NYC.

I had it the first month but it affected me differently because i think my body struggles to produce serotonin. I remember feeling high but without the euphoria.


----------



## V1bzz

This x100 is how shaky i am today. i cant find a gif shaky enough


----------



## V1bzz

Well i have just wrote work explaining whats going on with me and that i may possibly need a couple of weeks off from work until i feel better. I have possibly just lost my job cos of this chit medication but i hope not. It really is a good job when i am not feeling so negative and down about things.

any other suggestions if my pdoc says no to clonazepam?? @SFC01 @Sweeto @Gillmore fan@watertouch @Tandorini @WillComp @Anyone and everyone

I'm having a really long panic attack at the moment cos of this situation.


----------



## Sweeto

If you don't get klonopin, I would go for lyrica or phenibut. Or 3 shots of vodka if it's necessary

I can't get why it's so f****g difficult to get benzos in UK. Here in Norway PD's are prescribing xanax like candies


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Well i have just wrote work explaining whats going on with me and that i may possibly need a couple of weeks off from work until i feel better. I have possibly just lost my job cos of this chit medication but i hope not. It really is a good job when i am not feeling so negative and down about things.
> 
> any other suggestions if my pdoc says no to clonazepam?? @*SFC01* @*Sweeto* @*Gillmore fan* @*watertouch* @*Tandorini* @*WillComp* @*Anyone* and everyone
> 
> I'm having a really long panic attack at the moment cos of this situation.


You need some real help, all this ****ing around with ad's - the only sub for benzo's would be lyrica as far as I know or phenibut. Apparently phenibut can be a ***** to get off if taking too regualarly where as lyrica is easy, I stopped it cold turkey.

Just plead with that pdoc re clonazapam - it does say tolerance doesn't build which is obviously the way you get yourself into the **** with benzo's but I have never taken clonazapam or any benzo's long term so not te best one to advise on this.

How about about nardil + lyrica + lowish dose of antipsychotic such as olanzapine maybe ? or even something like symbyax (olnazapine and prozac) made by my old company 

I dont know mate, could you get yourself into a psychiatric hospital for a couple of weeks respite and maybe get to try something different under supervision? You don't get locked into a padded cell and strapped down for all types of injections btw - well I would hope note these days.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> You need some real help, all this ****ing around with ad's - the only sub for benzo's would be lyrica as far as I know or phenibut. Apparently phenibut can be a ***** to get off if taking too regualarly where as lyrica is easy, I stopped it cold turkey.
> 
> Just plead with that pdoc re clonazapam - it does say tolerance doesn't build which is obviously the way you get yourself into the **** with benzo's but I have never taken clonazapam or any benzo's long term so not te best one to advise on this.
> 
> How about about nardil + lyrica + lowish dose of antipsychotic such as olanzapine maybe ? or even something like symbyax (olnazapine and prozac) made by my old company
> 
> I dont know mate, could you get yourself into a psychiatric hospital for a couple of weeks respite and maybe get to try something different under supervision? You don't get locked into a padded cell and strapped down for all types of injections btw - well I would hope note these days.


I feel today like the old me (not the one before getting sick). I woke up today and drove to the garage and got myself a bottle of gin. I hate drinking but anything to not feel how im feeling right now.
I spoke with the pdoc and i have to see him tomorrow, he is up for giving me clonazepam short term and going back on nardil after 7 days or so.

I will say tomorrow about starting on pregabalin asap and then add the nardil back in. I'm just worried because the last time i took pregabalin i tried to overdose on it cos i was sick of how it made me feel like a complete mong.
I was thinking of asking for either wellbutrin or sertraline but after googling they are no go's as far as i can tell.

I'm just back at square one at the moment, have messed everything up again and lost all hope.

The gin doesn't even last long enough to stop me being a complete wreck.

I remembered today, don't know why, the first ever panic attack i had after stopping drugs. I was 23 or around there and had a panic attack getting on the bus to start a new job.

weird the things we think of when the illness takes over.


----------



## Sweeto

Guys what are the main signs of maoi inhibition in my body? How do I know if it's fully started?


----------



## V1bzz

Just taken 1mg clonazepam, gotta do it twice a day. i start back on nardil on tuesday.

hopefully in an hour or two i will feel much better than i do now. shaking so bad, pins and needles all over my body on the verge of collapsing.

not good times.

i'm guessing you will know sweeto because everything will just start to become easier. dont know if you had hypotension last time but thats a good sign.
hoping i don't get that sh11t real bad again. christ this feels like last year all over again.

just noticed you can buy viagra now in the chemist


----------



## Tandorini

Sweeto said:


> If you don't get klonopin, I would go for lyrica or phenibut. Or 3 shots of vodka if it's necessary
> 
> I can't get why it's so f****g difficult to get benzos in UK. Here in Norway PD's are prescribing xanax like candies


The prescribing of Xanax in Norway has never been lower. In 2017 less than 1 mg alprazolam was prescribed per 1000 inhabitants. It's the least prescribed benzo in Norway.

Living in Norway, it's funny you haven't caught all the discussions going on about how benzos are less frequently prescribed after Oct 1st, 2016. The docs says patients are less adamant about getting them after the law that changed at that date.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Just taken 1mg clonazepam, gotta do it twice a day. i start back on nardil on tuesday.
> 
> hopefully in an hour or two i will feel much better than i do now. shaking so bad, pins and needles all over my body on the verge of collapsing.
> 
> not good times.
> 
> i'm guessing you will know sweeto because everything will just start to become easier. dont know if you had hypotension last time but thats a good sign.
> hoping i don't get that sh11t real bad again. christ this feels like last year all over again.
> 
> just noticed you can buy viagra now in the chemist


Good luck with it fella, how has the cloanzepam worked out today ? How long are you allowed on it for?

You gonna try anything different with nardil this time ? Maybe start it along with a small dose of amit or nortriptlyine if you are allowed?

Given up on the lyrica ? It may be worth a try with nardil, as you know I was on it when I started nardil - maybe thats the key to becoming the next nardil poster boy . If you start of low with lyrica, like 50 to 100mg, it shouldn't **** you up and you can slowly build up.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Good luck with it fella, how has the cloanzepam worked out today ? How long are you allowed on it for?
> 
> You gonna try anything different with nardil this time ? Maybe start it along with a small dose of amit or nortriptlyine if you are allowed?
> 
> Given up on the lyrica ? It may be worth a try with nardil, as you know I was on it when I started nardil - maybe thats the key to becoming the next nardil poster boy . If you start of low with lyrica, like 50 to 100mg, it shouldn't **** you up and you can slowly build up.


I was too much in a mess to discuss things properly today, i just wanted my rx and to get out of there and home again.

what im thinking is i'll do nardil 45 1 week, then 60 for 2 weeks then see him again and discuss what i want to do next. I will defo tell him i want to add pregab or something then.

I just needed to be in an out today. haven't felt that ill in a very long time. i'm not joking when i say i felt close to collapse every step i took.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I was too much in a mess to discuss things properly today, i just wanted my rx and to get out of there and home again.
> 
> what im thinking is i'll do nardil 45 1 week, then 60 for 2 weeks then see him again and discuss what i want to do next. I will defo tell him i want to add pregab or something then.
> 
> I just needed to be in an out today. haven't felt that ill in a very long time. i'm not joking when i say i felt close to collapse every step i took.


Yeah sure mate, really hope nardil does the bzz this time - you off clommy completely now?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah sure mate, really hope nardil does the bzz this time - you off clommy completely now?


Yeah had my last dose Monday night. Thinking about it i may do a 15 on Saturday just so i can assess how it is going to affect me. hopefully i won't have to go through everything i went through last time.

The clonazzy stopped the shaking within maybe 10-15mins which really surprised me, about lunch i did another 1mg and obviously feel asleep as i woke up at 5pm. I just took another 1mg cos i'm shaking again and feeling pretty **** again.

From tomorrow i will be stricter and do 1mg when i get up then 1 at lunch and thats it. maybe just 1mg depending on how i feel.

Not sure what to do about work, i kinda feel like just saying to them i'm done so i can just concentrate on myself for abit but doing that would cause me financial worries.

I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 8am, take the med and if i feel ok i will ring work and tell them i can work tomorrow. i'm just worried to say to them that i will be back monday 100% because nardil could **** me up again like it did the first time.

hard to know what to do. wouldnt it be awesome though is nardil works normally for me this time without the side effects. it is possible that because i had got rid of most SE's last time i was on it they might not come back.

Last dose of clommy was monday night, 150mg. Half life is 32hrs at that dose so say 48hrs per 25mg times that by 6 = 12 days to be fully clear. my math sucks so correct me if im wrong lol.
thats 288 hours. so after 5 days i'm thinking minimal amounts left in my system that would not react with a 15mg nardil.

all this math chit confuses me so if that is completely wrong pls do it better lol


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah had my last dose Monday night. Thinking about it i may do a 15 on Saturday just so i can assess how it is going to affect me. hopefully i won't have to go through everything i went through last time.
> 
> The clonazzy stopped the shaking within maybe 10-15mins which really surprised me, about lunch i did another 1mg and obviously feel asleep as i woke up at 5pm. I just took another 1mg cos i'm shaking again and feeling pretty **** again.
> 
> From tomorrow i will be stricter and do 1mg when i get up then 1 at lunch and thats it. maybe just 1mg depending on how i feel.
> 
> Not sure what to do about work, i kinda feel like just saying to them i'm done so i can just concentrate on myself for abit but doing that would cause me financial worries.
> 
> I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 8am, take the med and if i feel ok i will ring work and tell them i can work tomorrow. i'm just worried to say to them that i will be back monday 100% because nardil could **** me up again like it did the first time.
> 
> hard to know what to do. wouldnt it be awesome though is nardil works normally for me this time without the side effects. it is possible that because i had got rid of most SE's last time i was on it they might not come back.
> 
> Last dose of clommy was monday night, 150mg. Half life is 32hrs at that dose so say 48hrs per 25mg times that by 6 = 12 days to be fully clear. my math sucks so correct me if im wrong lol.
> thats 288 hours. so after 5 days i'm thinking minimal amounts left in my system that would not react with a 15mg nardil.
> 
> all this math chit confuses me so if that is completely wrong pls do it better lol


the work thing is a pain in the arse but sometimes you just have to look after yourself - money means **** all if you find yourself seriously ****ed up but I guess you need to judge that one.

those maths will have to wait till tomorrow morning for me mate lol, I spend all day looking at numbers and I`m all numbered out right now haha. Remind me tomorrow am when my brain cells wake up.


----------



## V1bzz

here's some info to help you @SFC01 

After a 150 mg dose, the half-life of CMI ranges from 19 hours to 37 hours (mean, 32 hr) and that of DMI ranges from 54 hours to 77 hours (mean, 69 hr).

I took my last dose of 150mg at 10pm monday night so thats 84hrs or so ago.....man i really hate working with number, pretty sure im numerically dyslexic.

gunna be over 100hrs by tomorrow morning. im clearly no expert on this chit or great at math but i think i will be ok to start a dose of 15mg this saturday, maybe go 30mg monday, then 45mg as advised from tuesday.

still feel crappy but not like yesterday, kind of hungover groggy headed with minor hand tremors.


----------



## Sweeto

Orgasm on Nardil feels like heaven on Earth. Anorgasmia is coming step by step but so far the orgasm is awesome I've never experienced anything like that before


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Orgasm on Nardil feels like heaven on Earth. Anorgasmia is coming step by step but so far the orgasm is awesome I've never experienced anything like that before


hope nardil this time works for me as well as it has worked for you and @WillComp @SFC01 etc

my doc wants me to do 45 for 1 week then 60 for 2 weeks but im doing 15mg today, 15mg saturday, 30mg sunday,monday, 45mg tuesday for a week or two then 60.

I just want to try not to rush it like the first time.

nice slow build. he also asked how much i was on before and i told him 60mg and 75mg.

How have you gone about it this time @Sweeto?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> hope nardil this time works for me as well as it has worked for you and @*WillComp* @*SFC01* etc
> 
> my doc wants me to do 45 for 1 week then 60 for 2 weeks but im doing 15mg today, 15mg saturday, 30mg sunday,monday, 45mg tuesday for a week or two then 60.
> 
> I just want to try not to rush it like the first time.
> 
> nice slow build. he also asked how much i was on before and i told him 60mg and 75mg.
> 
> How have you gone about it this time @*Sweeto* ?


Yeah, dont rush given the side effects last time


----------



## Sweeto

I hope so too

Week 1 - 30mg
Week 2 - 60mg
Week 3 - 75mg (now)

But I'm really curious why I'm not getting hypotension? My BP is 135/80 and a year ago I had 105/60 at this dosage.

What was your highest dose last time btw?


----------



## WillComp

Back to a crappy day! I have that same anxiety blood running throughout my veins, and it's causing significant depression today. I've talked to a few people today, and I feel like my old self-shaky, paranoid, flushed, depressed, confused, and physically sick with that gloom and doom anxiety. It's not nearly as bad as the pre-Nardil days, but this is my first bad day on 75mg in the last couple months. Today it feels like it doesn't work and my whole world is crashing down. I just want to go home and hide under my blankets.

It's funny how people on here disappear when Nardil makes them forget about SAS, and then suddenly show up when the anxiety crashes back in. I wonder why I'm feeling like this today. It's a Friday, I should feel great. But this SA is shaking me up today and bringing back all those ****ty memories. I'm at work staring out the window in my office, with that 1000 yard stare, thinking deep anxious thoughts. Nothing right now could get me motivated to work.

I did get a laugh though when logging in and reading my old mate @*V1bzz* 's posts, not because of what he's going through, but because of how he's so honest and real. By the way, I wouldn't know if I still have A. I'm on day 39 of abstaining, and won't try until day 90. Should be interesting! :nerd:

I believe I'll feel better tomorrow, something just went terribly wrong today. I was thinking about @*V1bzz* 's job and how anxious and depressed that would make me. I can't imagine seeing all those same people every day and driving while on Nardil. I think circumstances in life have a lot to do with keeping SA in check. It's important to have a stable work environment, one that you don't mind going to every day.

For the first time ever, I'm content with my job. I work at a small company, everyone pretty much keeps to themselves, and I have my own office where I can hide all day. It's not stressful at all. So I'd say look around for something where you can relax, maybe where you can sit in a nice comfy chair all day (and are free to get up and walk around when you want), someplace where you can take a big sigh of relief and say to yourself, "I'd be happy working here for the next 10 years". Then Nardil takes care of the rest... except for maybe an isolated day like I'm having now. :-(


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I hope so too
> 
> Week 1 - 30mg
> Week 2 - 60mg
> Week 3 - 75mg (now)
> 
> But I'm really curious why I'm not getting hypotension? My BP is 135/80 and a year ago I had 105/60 at this dosage.
> 
> What was your highest dose last time btw?


i did 90mg a lot and also 120 more than a few times.

before i dropped to 45 i was doing 75 3 days a week and 90 the other 4.

hopefully my body wont reject it when it starts to fully work this time!!
@WillComp, im sure you will be back to the good times tomorrow mate. maybe reading about me put you on a downer lol


----------



## Sweeto

Fcuk 120mg is a huge dose, I remember 90mg as my top dose that I wouldn't imagine to go above due to side effects.

Do you think when I lower Nardil dose to let's say 30mg for a few days, will it lessen anorgasmia to the point where I would achieve orgasm?


----------



## V1bzz

I feel kinda in a good mood today. could be the clonazepam though i only started to feel like this since i added the 15mg nardil. put on some shorts and a t-shirt and am pottering about. I think if everyone goes to town today i might go with them and have a few beers.

woke up at 0700 today, bam, wide awake, straight out of bed getting on with sh11t. on clomipramine that wouldnt happen and i would feel unmotivated to work or do anything and just want to go back to bed. thank fkuc it seems that crap is nearly all out of my system already. I have a slight spinny head i think from the nardil.
@Sweeto mate i think if it works for you and you feel good, screw the anorgasmia, enjoy feeling good, i'm sure it will pass at some point. worry about the big picture for now. thats my opinion anyway, not everyone gets to feel it working properly, me for example.
hoping its going to be different this time, feels it already but i don't know if its the mixture of nardil and the clonazepam.


----------



## Sweeto

Ok mate, I'll try to ignore it for a while at least.

Btw how are you doing?

I upped my dosage to 90mg and it hit me like a fcuking monster, got hypomania 99/53 and overall feeling like ****. It it continues that way I have to go back to 75mg


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I feel kinda in a good mood today. could be the clonazepam though i only started to feel like this since i added the 15mg nardil. put on some shorts and a t-shirt and am pottering about. I think if everyone goes to town today i might go with them and have a few beers.
> 
> woke up at 0700 today, bam, wide awake, straight out of bed getting on with sh11t. on clomipramine that wouldnt happen and i would feel unmotivated to work or do anything and just want to go back to bed. thank fkuc it seems that crap is nearly all out of my system already. I have a slight spinny head i think from the nardil.


Thats good to hear mate, hope it has continued these last couple of days.


----------



## Tandorini

Saw the new pdoc today. I think he's number seven in the line of doctors I've had treating me at the outpatient clinic. Oh well, he seemed nice enough, and knowledgeable. He isn't really new to my case, as he's been supervising the old pdoc (well, pdoc to be). But today was the first time I met him.

He asked me a lot about effects and side effects, and whether I used other medications. And yeah, I don't think he liked it when I said I'd had pretty much all the foods on the do-not-eat list except for aged cheeses. But I said I'm always aware, and that I am more careful if on vacation or some place where health services are less accecible. Besides, I don't eat heaps of the food containing tyramine. And then he asked me whether staying off alcohol completely was a problem. And I was like..hey, say what now? I told him that I quite regularly have a few drinks with a friend of mine, but usually sticking to 3 or 4 units from afternoon till late night. He didn't have many objections, really. 

We talked about seroquel as well. He didn't want me to mess around with the dosage on that (i.e. decreasing it) for now. 

But yeah, over all a nice guy. Seems like a guy to go to if I ever have any questions about medications. A couple of the pdocs I've gone to have known very little, and one of them was just not eager to discuss the details with me, totally ignoring the fact that I'm a nurse and probably do understand a bit more indepth details than the average client.

I told you guys that my psychologist quit, I was waiting for a new pdoc (the one I went to today), I finished working with the psychomotoric, all these at pretty much the same time, right. Well, now my GP will be gone for about 3 months. I am glad my mood is better and that I don't feel depressed, as this would have made a great impact on me if all this had happened in a bad period of my life. But atm I handle it well, I suppose. I guess it was kind of a relief to see that the new pdoc seems like a guy I can seek help with.

The worst thing about changing therapists the whole time is that no one really has gone the whole distance with me. Well, my GP has, I guess. And he will be returning in a few months time. But the other therapists, the ones I've come to know over the past year, has only seen me ON Nardil, being quite well. I hope they do manage to see the whole picture, seeing how much of a difference Nardil made in my life. There's been no consistent group of therapists that have been working with me the whole time. I guess that's a loss to them too. I know myself that I like keeping with the same patient for a while, on their way to recovery, celebrating their milestones with them.

Anyway, just a status update.


----------



## V1bzz

Glad for you @Tandorini, sounds like you got yourself a decent pdoc there.

Today has been an odd day for me, not in a bad day. today was the first day doing 45mg nardil with my usual dose of 1mg clonazzy.

I had a job on the other side of birmingham and stuck my house tunes on there and back and was boogying the whole trip. Haven't done that in a while. Was also thinking while driving that i needed to do something, like save up this year, practice hard on my decks then go to mexico or somewhere next year and just be a dj in some clubs and pubs. Then i got round to thinking after seeing this picture...







Which broke my heart that i need to do something to help, like go volunteer in africa or wherever for a few months, I have a couple of grand saved and could use that to support myself while doing something good like digging wells or just doing something.

I've been feeling very reflective all day really.

Only thing thats put me on a bit of a downer because i'm tired is that I have just been rang up to do a job at 1am in bristol to then travel across the bridge to wales and do a few drops. Should have just ignored the phone I think.

No side effects from nardil, I have a very slight spinny head but thats prob still that nasty clomipramine getting out of my system.
All in all I feel quite good, i'm hoping it is the nardil, it wasn't like this the first time but i also wasnt withdrawing from clommy and taking clonazzy last time.

Huff I suppose I better get ready to go do this sh11t job thats prob going to take all night.

I'm just wondering whether to take a armoddy or not. I've been put off because that day I took 3 it just enhanced how badly i was feeling 10 fold. i'm worried if i drop one now instead of it making me more alert its going to make me anxious and shaky.

man my eyes are kinda heavy, should be ok once i get going though.

chat tomorrow.


----------



## Sweeto

Some update

On 90mg can't achieve orgasm, extreme fatigue and have got brutal carbohydrate cravings
@SFC01 What was the highest dose you were on in your Nardil history? On 75mg I was feeling pretty ok and kind of without side effects


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> Some update
> 
> On 90mg can't achieve orgasm, extreme fatigue and have got brutal carbohydrate cravings
> @*SFC01* What was the highest dose you were on in your Nardil history? On 75mg I was feeling pretty ok and kind of without side effects


ahh sorry mate, didnt look at the mentions !

90mg was the highest for a few months but most at 75mg - just didn't it affect my mood at atll going to 90 and got some bloating too so cam back down tp 75mg.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Some update
> 
> On 90mg can't achieve orgasm, extreme fatigue and have got brutal carbohydrate cravings
> @SFC01 What was the highest dose you were on in your Nardil history? On 75mg I was feeling pretty ok and kind of without side effects


Mate are you sure your not rushing to the higher doses a bit quick. sounds like everything is starting to hit you all at once now. Think you need to chill with it and take your time. jmo


----------



## V1bzz

Oh, I quit my job today lol

so far on meds just have abit of a spinny head in the evenings.

remember the first time around about a year ago, I was so god damn ill!!!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Oh, I quit my job today lol
> 
> so far on meds just have abit of a spinny head in the evenings.
> 
> remember the first time around about a year ago, I was so god damn ill!!!


You going to look for something else mate or leave for a bit while nardil hopefully works?


----------



## V1bzz

Na going to look into leasing my own van and getting work through courier exchange and truly be my own boss. So if i'm sick or feeling lazy i can just not choose to work.

only took 0.5mg of clonazzy today and 45mg nardil so its defo the nardil that is making me a bit light headed. apart from that its a positive motivated outlook on life so far. i'm not going to say it because I don't want to jinx it and its literally only day 3 at 45mg, with 2 days at 15 and a day or 2 at 30.

spinny head could be of course still from that nasty clomipramine sh11t!

I just swept the driveway which is not me and made a track in about 10 minutes last night. Just something really simple, minimal but I like it. will post shortly.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Na going to look into leasing my own van and getting work through courier exchange and truly be my own boss. So if i'm sick or feeling lazy i can just not choose to work.
> 
> only took 0.5mg of clonazzy today and 45mg nardil so its defo the nardil that is making me a bit light headed. apart from that its a positive motivated outlook on life so far. i'm not going to say it because I don't want to jinx it and its literally only day 3 at 45mg, with 2 days at 15 and a day or 2 at 30.
> 
> spinny head could be of course still from that nasty clomipramine sh11t!
> 
> I just swept the driveway which is not me and made a track in about 10 minutes last night. Just something really simple, minimal but I like it. will post shortly.


Would be great to be your own boss !!

How long is the doc giving you on the clonazzy ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Would be great to be your own boss !!
> 
> How long is the doc giving you on the clonazzy ?


well he gave me 2 weeks worth and i have 30 x 0.5mg pills left.

I will tell him i want to be on them all the time now for when i need them. for example the only time i will drop 2 or possibly 4 is if i have to do something that i know will fkcuk me up, like job interview or something.

here's a very quick bad mix of my 3 latest tracks, mixed in order of when i made them. Third track literally too me an hour tops to finish. I really like it too ha.




 *<<<<< click the word*


----------



## V1bzz

Head feeling abit more spinny tonight,possibly slowly turning into hypotension

*Sitting*
Sys - 103
DIA - 72
Pulse - 135

*Standing*
Sys - 103
DIA - 75
Pulse - 150


----------



## V1bzz

SoulFant said:


> Hi, I'm a newbie here. I want to share my experience. I suffer from some form of erectile dysfunction. I tried a lot of drugs. But I stopped at this https://levsale.com/. I started with a dosage of 5 mg, but had increased to 10. Now I'm active, and my life is also slowly getting back to normal.


Viagra is now legal to buy over the counter in the uk. Don't know much more about viagra than it gives you a boner, don't know long term health benefits, cure etc
sounds like what you are using is doing the trick. not sure anyone here has ED though?


----------



## SFC01

SoulFant said:


> Hi, I'm a newbie here. I want to share my experience. I suffer from some form of erectile dysfunction. I tried a lot of drugs. But I stopped at this https://levsale.com/. I started with a dosage of 5 mg, but had increased to 10. Now I'm active, and my life is also slowly getting back to normal.


You take nardil?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Viagra is now legal to buy over the counter in the uk. Don't know much more about viagra than it gives you a boner, don't know long term health benefits, cure etc
> sounds like what you are using is doing the trick. not sure anyone here has ED though?


Come on @watertouch, you have to come back for at least one comment on this fella ?

:grin2:


----------



## Sweeto

Well I finally had an orgasm although I'm on 90mg. It took 1 hour to get it done 🙂 But it was the most intense and best feeling I've experienced in my whole life and couldn't imagine something so strong and beautiful before!


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Come on @watertouch, you have to come back for at least one comment on this fella ?
> 
> :grin2:


Indeed and will in effect answer the "do you get morning chubby on nardil" question he has so long sought.

cam on @watertouch !!!

@SFC01 like the new tunes? even with the bad mixing lol

the 3rd one took an hour tops, no effort really, just created some nice drums, made a catchy bassline and synth, chucked it all together, added some percussive elements to change it up a bit, whacked in a vocal and done.

Have put it in spinnin records talent contest lol. zwro ****s given mate.


----------



## watertouch

V1bzz said:


> Viagra is now legal to buy over the counter in the uk. Don't know much more about viagra than it gives you a boner, don't know long term health benefits, cure etc
> sounds like what you are using is doing the trick. not sure anyone here has ED though?


:grin2:


----------



## watertouch

SFC01 said:


> Come on @*watertouch* , you have to come back for at least one comment on this fella ?
> 
> :grin2:


Morning wood on Nardil? :wink2:

On a side note, since starting with Testosterone i now have morning wood while on Parnate.


----------



## SFC01

watertouch said:


> Morning wood on Nardil? :wink2:
> 
> On a side note, since starting with Testosterone i now have morning wood while on Parnate.


Hey my man!! that better, and thanks for the update on your wood.

You ok ? Parnate doing better now ?


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* like the new tunes? even with the bad mixing lol
> 
> the 3rd one took an hour tops, no effort really, just created some nice drums, made a catchy bassline and synth, chucked it all together, added some percussive elements to change it up a bit, whacked in a vocal and done.
> 
> Have put it in spinnin records talent contest lol. zwro ****s given mate.


Ah sorry mate, haven't checked them out yet - will have a look later and give you my review


----------



## V1bzz

watertouch said:


> Morning wood on Nardil? :wink2:
> 
> On a side note, since starting with Testosterone i now have morning wood while on Parnate.


Good to hear from you. I can't tell you how relieved I am to hear about your morning wood, happy days! :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Day 4 45mg Nardil for me so far nothing negative to report, generally feeling positive and upbeat. spinny head but hey ho, nothing compared to what i had to deal with last year.

Kinda feel like i'm having a mid life crisis to be honest, feel like having a massive change in my life. I think the thing i'm not going to say is finally doing what its supposed to do so far.

I only take 0.5mg clonazzy in the morning so i know its not that.

Generally feeling good, even asked a couple of women on tinder if they wanted to go for a drink this weekend :O


----------



## V1bzz

Fkuc i'm so horny, im like asking chicks on tinder if they wantr to go out for drinks (meaning drinks then have sex with me lol)

The thing is doing summin, not liking the daily increase of spinny headedness though.

Think i might be in a bit of a manic type phase. never had it first,2nd or 3rd time last year.

I honestly don't know whether to have a [email protected], play COD or have a poo lol


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> I honestly don't know whether to have a [email protected], play COD or have a poo lol


lol

why not all three ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> lol
> 
> why not all three ?


I did it all and mixed some house tunes for an hour then had a chat on tinder @karenw

Multi tasting at its finest!


----------



## SFC01

Multi *tasting* ?? Given what two of your options were, that doesn't sound too good to me lol.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Multi *tasting* ?? Given what two of your options were, that doesn't sound too good to me lol.


----------



## Sweeto

I'm on 90mg for 5 days and I've got no hypotensia except the first day. Is this the sign of not sufficient inhibition of maoi? I'm little bit worried


----------



## V1bzz

where did your comment go @karenw

chill @Sweeto, look at it as a good thing you havent got hypotension yet.
I'm surprised i havent got it yet either, just a horrible spinny head


----------



## Sweeto

So I'm on 90mg day 6. Overall 25 days on Nardil. I'm wondering why I have very few to no side effects. Absolutely no hypotension, no constipation, no urinary retention so far.
The only one side effects I've got are anorgasmia and insomnia.

The last time I took Nardil at even lower dose - 75mg I had a plenty of side effects, mostly hypotension and constipation. Why it's so different now? I'm taking the same brand of Nardil as before.


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> So I'm on 90mg day 6. Overall 25 days on Nardil. I'm wondering why I have very few to no side effects. Absolutely no hypotension, no constipation, no urinary retention so far.
> The only one side effects I've got are anorgasmia and insomnia.
> 
> The last time I took Nardil at even lower dose - 75mg I had a plenty of side effects, mostly hypotension and constipation. Why it's so different now? I'm taking the same brand of Nardil as before.


Is it working tho mate ?

I never had side effects and it all was good so don't think too much about it.


----------



## Sweeto

Hi mate, no it's not working yet but it has been just 19 days on 60 or more mg so although I'm bit worried I'm just waiting. Did you have zero side effects even when you were on 90mg for a short time?


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> Hi mate, no it's not working yet but it has been just 19 days on 60 or more mg so although I'm bit worried I'm just waiting. Did you have zero side effects even when you were on 90mg for a short time?


Some bloating but nothing else


----------



## V1bzz

bp today is 128/96


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> bp today is 128/96


Is that good or bad mate ?

You still popping into the docs to measure it or you got one at home?

(listened to the new tracks, commented on soundcloud)


----------



## Sweeto

Well according to WHO is hypotension if men have BP below 110/70, so I'm actually at that level, 113/65 in average.

I have few side effects though.


----------



## SFC01

Sweeto said:


> Well according to WHO is hypotension if men have BP below 110/70, so I'm actually at that level, 113/65 in average.
> 
> I have few side effects though.


I've had my BP measured about 10 to 15 times since being on nardil, although none this year (maybe once). It has always been fine apart from once early morning at the docs, where it was quite low apparently (don't know what the numbers were) - I had no side effects then either.


----------



## SFC01

karenw said:


> I'm amazed you dt have blood tests or anything.


because of nardil ?

Had blood tests for other stuff just only BP for nardil.


----------



## SFC01

karenw said:


> Well anything you've taken.


Doc has never mentioned it for any other meds tho.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Is that good or bad mate ?
> 
> You still popping into the docs to measure it or you got one at home?
> 
> (listened to the new tracks, commented on soundcloud)


Na I bought myself a home tester a few months ago. BP seems to be fine. Pulse is abit fast sometimes.

Feeling a bit down today but i put that down to getting wasted on saturday then drinking half a bottle of gin on sunday then the other half yesterday.

Up until that point I was feeling good. Just had spinny head.

Have gone up to 60 today, was supposed to start yesterday but figured not a good idea while drinking gin.
My pupils were huge Sunday and yesterday. I got turned down on the credit check for the new van for the business but am wondering if that is because the ATM ate my card saturday night and I had to cancel it so waiting for a new one which will have a different issue date and CSV.
It's put me on a right downer.

If i can get myself to the place i was last week before drinking I may just **** off and do a summer job somewhere. Just abit difficult having to put the damn meds in the fridge!

Thanks for listening to the track.
I did a new progressive house mix on sunday if you want to listen - https://www.mixcloud.com/V1bzz/topδz-δngst/


----------



## V1bzz

quite mad that this thread has been going for over a year now!


----------



## Tandorini

Yeah, people should know just how much information there is about Nardil and other meds here, if they care to read through all the crap in between. 

I just posted in another thread, about the Nardil from Archimedes. I find it unsettling that no Nardil with expiration date past 05/18 has reached Norway (i.e., no Nardil since they changed production site), and no pharmacies seem to know at what time another batch is expected. I'm good for 80 days (if willing to take them beyond expiration date, 30 if I am to follow expiration date), but without any promises of a solution I'm getting a bit worried.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Yeah, people should know just how much information there is about Nardil and other meds here, if they care to read through all the crap in between.
> 
> I just posted in another thread, about the Nardil from Archimedes. I find it unsettling that no Nardil with expiration date past 05/18 has reached Norway (i.e., no Nardil since they changed production site), and no pharmacies seem to know at what time another batch is expected. I'm good for 80 days (if willing to take them beyond expiration date, 30 if I am to follow expiration date), but without any promises of a solution I'm getting a bit worried.


hmm that is very odd.

has your brand always been archimedes there?

man my pupils are huge again today and im all wobbly and feeling uber tired. really hoping this is cos of the alcohol and not the meds starting to do me in.

on a side note, i can't stop damn itching!!!!!


----------



## toolband185

I'm here with you 60mg on month exactly today. I haven't noticed much of anything. Side effects hardly no sleep. Still waiting on 60 6 to 8 weeks seeking... Anxiety the same but find myself WANTING to get out more. 

Sent from my LGL163BL using Tapatalk


----------



## toolband185

This is my 3rd time on trail.... Only med worked on depression a bit and sort have notice some social anxiety lessen... 

Sent from my LGL163BL using Tapatalk


----------



## Sweeto

Hi mate, why is Nardil Archimedes banned in Norway? I get my Nardil from UK though but would like to know if there is something wrong with Archimedes brand. My supply expiring on end of May too



Tandorini said:


> Yeah, people should know just how much information there is about Nardil and other meds here, if they care to read through all the crap in between.
> 
> I just posted in another thread, about the Nardil from Archimedes. I find it unsettling that no Nardil with expiration date past 05/18 has reached Norway (i.e., no Nardil since they changed production site), and no pharmacies seem to know at what time another batch is expected. I'm good for 80 days (if willing to take them beyond expiration date, 30 if I am to follow expiration date), but without any promises of a solution I'm getting a bit worried.


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> hmm that is very odd.
> 
> has your brand always been archimedes there?
> 
> man my pupils are huge again today and im all wobbly and feeling uber tired. really hoping this is cos of the alcohol and not the meds starting to do me in.
> 
> on a side note, i can't stop damn itching!!!!!


Yeah, always Archimedes. It's un-licensed, but they still got a regular supplier an all that, as it is prescribed to a certain extent. I have no idea what's happening - I would assume that when another business takes over, they would keep the customers and everything. Gonna stop by the pharmacy at the hospital today, and maybe have them ask the hospital wards how they are going to get it. At least I will stir up something, getting the pharmacies aware of the problem.

I wish I still had that patient on Nardil, then I could call everywhere as a health care professional, asking doctors at the hospital what their plan with their Nardil patients are


----------



## Sweeto

@V1bzz Hi, any news with your Nardil journey?


----------



## Tandorini

The pharmacy called me today, telling me they have a confirmed ETA on Nardil now. Looks like it's working out!


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Cool, must have been a bit nervy !! I would have been.


Yeah, I mean, when it's problems delivering a common drug, they usually have it all sorted out, ordering from abroad and giving out information. But this time around, there was no information, and the pharmacies weren't aware of the issue. I am glad that the pharmacy near me is very professional and always good at following up requests.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> @V1bzz Hi, any news with your Nardil journey?


Hi mate, I did 1 week on 45mg and now on 2nd day of 60mg.

The Nardil tiredness has hit me big time, from about lunch time i just feel fkcuked. apart from that just a bit of a spinny head. no hypotension or any other systems.
Oh I think the anorgasmia is on its way as im premature ejaculatng but can still orgasm. damn intense too.
umm another thing, i find that my eyes sting abit and my long vision looking at far away things is burred and i can't focus.

when i take a clonazepam (just took 0.5mg now) my pupils go super big!


----------



## V1bzz

Oh, i've just taken a magnesium malate to see if that helps with the tiredness feeling in my eyes


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> The pharmacy called me today, telling me they have a confirmed ETA on Nardil now. Looks like it's working out!


great news, not good stressing when you have mental health issues. now you can breath lol


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi mate, did it ? I still take it, its good for exercise etc and you notice the difference when you run out.


I haven't taken any for a while mate so not sure.

I went and bloody took an armoddy too and now im defo fkcuked up lol, i'm all over the shop!!


----------



## V1bzz

This is flippin ridiculous. Just tried to take off my jeans and fell over


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> This is flippin ridiculous. Just tried to take off my jeans and fell over


lol, yeah we have all been there !! well I have at least


----------



## Sweeto

Well I'm week 4, 1 week on 90mg and got hypotension, actually 88/48 bp. But my tooth was extracted yesterday so don't know if hypotension is the reaction of extraction.

All my side effects are insomnia, anorgasmia, extreme swearing on forehead.


----------



## Tandorini

SFC01 said:


> Hi mate, did it ? I still take it, its good for exercise etc and you notice the difference when you run out.


Didn't do anything for me.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Well I'm week 4, 1 week on 90mg and got hypotension, actually 88/48 bp. But my tooth was extracted yesterday so don't know if hypotension is the reaction of extraction.
> 
> All my side effects are insomnia, anorgasmia, extreme swearing on forehead.


Yeah I couldn't sleep last night. well fell asleep from about 2am-3.30am, stayed up till 05.30 fell asleep and woke up about 0700.


----------



## Sweeto

With me it's even worse, I wake up at 1 am and stay up till morning.

Did you already get hypotension? I've got it after 3.5 weeks on Nardil, quite late according to me.



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm week 4, 1 week on 90mg and got hypotension, actually 88/48 bp. But my tooth was extracted yesterday so don't know if hypotension is the reaction of extraction.
> 
> All my side effects are insomnia, anorgasmia, extreme swearing on forehead.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I couldn't sleep last night. well fell asleep from about 2am-3.30am, stayed up till 05.30 fell asleep and woke up about 0700.
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> With me it's even worse, I wake up at 1 am and stay up till morning.
> 
> Did you already get hypotension? I've got it after 3.5 weeks on Nardil, quite late according to me.


No, no hypotension yet. This time around is completely different from the other times. It's coming up to lunch time here now and i can feel the head/eye tiredness kicking in. I really hate it. Not even armodafinil helps get rid of it. I guess the only thing to do is bloody sleep.
other things, not pooing as often, maybe once ever 2 or 3 days now and also doing a wee has become quite intense in the feeling, it gives me body rushes.

its 11:56am and i hate that i'm feeling fkcuking knackered in my head already!

umm nothing else i can think of.


----------



## Sweeto

Lol I was so scared that I hadn't hypotension but now it hits me big time. I got 59/34 BP! When I stand up I'm hearing sounds in my ears cos of low blood pressure. Time to decrease the dosage?


----------



## Tone

i wonder how people used to nardil woukd end up with high dose moclobemide, or rather, high dose of one thats reversable against both A and B as A-selective seems pharmacologically unwise. if anything id try B selective for pea and da limbic function & amygdala attenuation

my iq jumps up like a lot of points if i take a modetate dopamingeric. Strongest cognitive enhancement I ever had was Tianeptine Noopept NSI-189 Triad, i would say, but i rarely if ever take tianeptine anymore, and best in sulphate form to cause less aggressive adaptive mechanisms of dependency sowing

Guys & Gals & And. Etc, If we lived in a world of common sense ethics, we would be working on minimizing the adaptive changes Opioidergics, Dopaminergics and NeuroTrophic Peptide Factors cause, so that exogenous miminicks of these could be administered with causing much less tolerance and dependance than they normally would be able to induce alone through the dawinian homeostatic mechanisms, which is the final frotire of the elimination of slavery, the one of our interna; Neural Biological Setpoints played out as Genetic Los Vagus. The buddists, some of them, are very fascinated with a select subgroup of transhumanists who seem of the simpler and more binighn route of genetic tinkering long before AI and Machine Augmentation, as a target focus much easier to assess gene by gene without worry of nanotech and AI results, much harder to predict.

Non-Anthropomorphic "God" omnipresence Bless You, Mr David Pearce, best ethics author and speaker ever, I want to see the world of Empathogens com passage now. Its just aphilosopical passage on an ad-free nonprofit manifesto network:

www.empathogens.com

Do any of you feel like you have actually MORE empathy and socioability than average but that its over-ridded and supporessed by S.A.Disorder? I would count my self as that, Ill show David this post then be embarrassed about it later once my legal and modest limbic boost wears off here, Mood Spectrum stuff can be more nootropic than nootropics.

Sorry , Im aware that the caffeine tablet and the mild IR Methiphenidate pill is making me typative where i will be like WTF later, even though this really is interesting stuff that we should not feel as awkward.

But main point for even more on topic is I think the USA should allow in Reversible MAOIs. Ive long been interested in incomplete reversible inhibition too, like a 65% inhibition instead of the general "Saturation point" of above 95% irreversible and be very very careful what you eat.

You knnow, looking at Parnate its not a hydrazine on there to make a tight irreversible covalent bound Tranylcyp has a Cyclopropane substituate, thats probably reversible with enough of a protracted receptor occupancy dissociation duration, that its practically irrevesible in practice. Tivia of the day. Other Cyclopropane Triangles of Carbons seem like stick stubborn Ligands too, Natrexone with take like 8 days to get well below 1% occupancy where Naloxone would reach that in about 2.5 hours. Bupronophine has that triangle too. By the way, the Authoritarians made them add a Mu Antagonist to Bupronorphin so only Kappa Antagonism could be studied in depressive disorder even though the Mu Agonist side is of rather weak intrensic activity which is exactly what one might desire in long term mood use instead of short term pain use of full agonsts, that was so dumb they should leave it as is alone, Block Kappa, Weakly Stimulate Mu.

Hope you enjoy these i just type them as an exercise and entertainment, i cant do anything about how all 196 Nations of Earth are run by Authoritarians who never felt real medical dysphoria and S.A. but instead few exceptions like stage fright and embarrassement that their hypomanic euphoria brains recover from fast. If you ever feel up to it people should sarcastically and in explosive satire thank them for the limitation of Health Freedom and ask when AntiHistamines are going to banned for allergy sufferers so they can take safer stool softeners, Statins, Antibiotics and garlic extract; And Then :: hopefully not be one of those treatment resistant cases that doesnt get any relief from these wonder non Antihistamines as shown by dissocative circles on the new and improve hamalton scale of ___________ still a working title

Enjoy people, this has been another edition of the Tone/Synosia Series ,, some of the most hardest hitting stuff ever posted with truth vibrations that will break you woofers and windows.


----------



## V1bzz

Man when my nardil dose kicks in I always feel fukucking freezing.
BP is normal though, just don't get it!

anyone else get this?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Lol I was so scared that I hadn't hypotension but now it hits me big time. I got 59/34 BP! When I stand up I'm hearing sounds in my ears cos of low blood pressure. Time to decrease the dosage?


Dang, yeah it's hit you lol.

Remember to stand up slower and when you start spinning out close your eyes. makes it easier.
No hypotension for me yet but i suppose its something to look forward to huff.
@Sweeto how are you feeling on it, has it started to make you feel great yet?
Im only at 2 weeks next monday.

Took a quietapine and got a decent night sleep last night. at least 7 hours solid sleep


----------



## Sweeto

Mate I suppose you should increase your dose to 75mg to feel hypotension but I might be wrong of course.

Well I'm surely in a better mood but nothing like "wow fcuk this is amazing" so far. I'm glad I got hypotension cos it's perhaps the sign of maoi inhibition. But one year ago I felt hypotension bit earlier, maybe at week 2, now after 3,5.

I'm still at 4,5 weeks on Nardil and 1 week I was on 30



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol I was so scared that I hadn't hypotension but now it hits me big time. I got 59/34 BP! When I stand up I'm hearing sounds in my ears cos of low blood pressure. Time to decrease the dosage?
> 
> 
> 
> Dang, yeah it's hit you lol.
> 
> Remember to stand up slower and when you start spinning out close your eyes. makes it easier.
> No hypotension for me yet but i suppose its something to look forward to huff.
> 
> @Sweeto how are you feeling on it, has it started to make you feel great yet?
> Im only at 2 weeks next monday.
> 
> Took a quietapine and got a decent night sleep last night. at least 7 hours solid sleep
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Mate I suppose you should increase your dose to 75mg to feel hypotension but I might be wrong of course.
> 
> Well I'm surely in a better mood but nothing like "wow fcuk this is amazing" so far. I'm glad I got hypotension cos it's perhaps the sign of maoi inhibition. But one year ago I felt hypotension bit earlier, maybe at week 2, now after 3,5.
> 
> I'm still at 4,5 weeks on Nardil and 1 week I was on 30


I've only just gone up to 60 so will stay here for abit.
I think the 45 is only just kicking in hence the tiredness.
Do you not get the afternoon tiredness?

I was feeling it again about 12 so dropped 3 armoddy and now im just off my t11ts lmao


----------



## V1bzz

Tone said:


> i wonder how people used to nardil woukd end up with high dose moclobemide, or rather, high dose of one thats reversable against both A and B as A-selective seems pharmacologically unwise. if anything id try B selective for pea and da limbic function & amygdala attenuation
> 
> my iq jumps up like a lot of points if i take a modetate dopamingeric. Strongest cognitive enhancement I ever had was Tianeptine Noopept NSI-189 Triad, i would say, but i rarely if ever take tianeptine anymore, and best in sulphate form to cause less aggressive adaptive mechanisms of dependency sowing
> 
> Guys & Gals & And. Etc, If we lived in a world of common sense ethics, we would be working on minimizing the adaptive changes Opioidergics, Dopaminergics and NeuroTrophic Peptide Factors cause, so that exogenous miminicks of these could be administered with causing much less tolerance and dependance than they normally would be able to induce alone through the dawinian homeostatic mechanisms, which is the final frotire of the elimination of slavery, the one of our interna; Neural Biological Setpoints played out as Genetic Los Vagus. The buddists, some of them, are very fascinated with a select subgroup of transhumanists who seem of the simpler and more binighn route of genetic tinkering long before AI and Machine Augmentation, as a target focus much easier to assess gene by gene without worry of nanotech and AI results, much harder to predict.
> 
> Non-Anthropomorphic "God" omnipresence Bless You, Mr David Pearce, best ethics author and speaker ever, I want to see the world of Empathogens com passage now. Its just aphilosopical passage on an ad-free nonprofit manifesto network:
> 
> www.empathogens.com
> 
> Do any of you feel like you have actually MORE empathy and socioability than average but that its over-ridded and supporessed by S.A.Disorder? I would count my self as that, Ill show David this post then be embarrassed about it later once my legal and modest limbic boost wears off here, Mood Spectrum stuff can be more nootropic than nootropics.
> 
> Sorry , Im aware that the caffeine tablet and the mild IR Methiphenidate pill is making me typative where i will be like WTF later, even though this really is interesting stuff that we should not feel as awkward.
> 
> But main point for even more on topic is I think the USA should allow in Reversible MAOIs. Ive long been interested in incomplete reversible inhibition too, like a 65% inhibition instead of the general "Saturation point" of above 95% irreversible and be very very careful what you eat.
> 
> You knnow, looking at Parnate its not a hydrazine on there to make a tight irreversible covalent bound Tranylcyp has a Cyclopropane substituate, thats probably reversible with enough of a protracted receptor occupancy dissociation duration, that its practically irrevesible in practice. Tivia of the day. Other Cyclopropane Triangles of Carbons seem like stick stubborn Ligands too, Natrexone with take like 8 days to get well below 1% occupancy where Naloxone would reach that in about 2.5 hours. Bupronophine has that triangle too. By the way, the Authoritarians made them add a Mu Antagonist to Bupronorphin so only Kappa Antagonism could be studied in depressive disorder even though the Mu Agonist side is of rather weak intrensic activity which is exactly what one might desire in long term mood use instead of short term pain use of full agonsts, that was so dumb they should leave it as is alone, Block Kappa, Weakly Stimulate Mu.
> 
> Hope you enjoy these i just type them as an exercise and entertainment, i cant do anything about how all 196 Nations of Earth are run by Authoritarians who never felt real medical dysphoria and S.A. but instead few exceptions like stage fright and embarrassement that their hypomanic euphoria brains recover from fast. If you ever feel up to it people should sarcastically and in explosive satire thank them for the limitation of Health Freedom and ask when AntiHistamines are going to banned for allergy sufferers so they can take safer stool softeners, Statins, Antibiotics and garlic extract; And Then :: hopefully not be one of those treatment resistant cases that doesnt get any relief from these wonder non Antihistamines as shown by dissocative circles on the new and improve hamalton scale of ___________ still a working title
> 
> Enjoy people, this has been another edition of the Tone/Synosia Series ,, some of the most hardest hitting stuff ever posted with truth vibrations that will break you woofers and windows.


Thanks for sharing :nerd:


----------



## Sweeto

Yea I do but don't know if it's due to hypotension or not. When my afternoons dose kicks in, I can barely stand



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mate I suppose you should increase your dose to 75mg to feel hypotension but I might be wrong of course.
> 
> Well I'm surely in a better mood but nothing like "wow fcuk this is amazing" so far. I'm glad I got hypotension cos it's perhaps the sign of maoi inhibition. But one year ago I felt hypotension bit earlier, maybe at week 2, now after 3,5.
> 
> I'm still at 4,5 weeks on Nardil and 1 week I was on 30
> 
> 
> 
> I've only just gone up to 60 so will stay here for abit.
> I think the 45 is only just kicking in hence the tiredness.
> Do you not get the afternoon tiredness?
> 
> I was feeling it again about 12 so dropped 3 armoddy and now im just off my t11ts lmao
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

I don't feel good today at all, feel really anxious and nervous, fed up and feel like i could just burst into tears


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Man when my nardil dose kicks in I always feel fukucking freezing.
> BP is normal though, just don't get it!
> 
> anyone else get this?


Iused to get that a lot. Way better now.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Iused to get that a lot. Way better now.


Hopefully it will pass soon. fed up feeling cold!

Had sh1te sleep last night, was waking up hourly wanting it to just be time to get up. annoying!!


----------



## Tandorini

Finally, a new batch of Nardil has reached my country. Went to the pharmacy to pick them up today. These expire 12/18, so still not very long, but I guess it has to do with the formulation or something. Hopefully no more trouble getting Nardil now!


----------



## WillComp

Glad to hear that, Tandorini. Hope no more trouble for you getting Nardil. Isn't it great getting a new bottle, looking in and smelling that full bottle of orange pills and feeling that nice sense of relief? 

It's been a year since I felt the first effects of Nardil. It's been life changing. I can't believe something actually worked for my SA, never thought I'd finally get relief. I've put up with a year of side effects because nothing comes close to the nightmare of severe SA. I don't think these side effects will ever go away. It's kind of a bummer but I don't dwell on the negatives any more.

I haven't told anyone I know about this so figured I'd share it here. This week I pulled up to a grocery store, got out of my car and then got dizzy again while walking in. I could feel a collapse coming on, nowhere to sit, nothing to hold onto. 

I was hoping it would never happen. Collapsing in public. But I knew it was about to happen. I scoped out the immediate area, just inside the bakery area, and went for the closest table to grab onto. Of course I could barely see or hear anything with that typical whiteout coming on. Before I got to the table I collapsed. Hard. 

First a nice looking female associate came rushing over, then a group emerged around me as I sat up, everyone else stopping and staring at a distance. 

Every time I tried to stand up, my legs would start convulsing uncontrollably. I told the group I was ok, just have hypotension as I shook like a sick patient in a hospital. 30 minutes later I was back in my car feeling perfectly normal. I guess this is just the life on Nardil.


----------



## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Glad to hear that, Tandorini. Hope no more trouble for you getting Nardil. Isn't it great getting a new bottle, looking in and smelling that full bottle of orange pills and feeling that nice sense of relief?
> 
> It's been a year since I felt the first effects of Nardil. It's been life changing. I can't believe something actually worked for my SA, never thought I'd finally get relief. I've put up with a year of side effects because nothing comes close to the nightmare of severe SA. I don't think these side effects will ever go away. It's kind of a bummer but I don't dwell on the negatives any more.
> 
> I haven't told anyone I know about this so figured I'd share it here. This week I pulled up to a grocery store, got out of my car and then got dizzy again while walking in. I could feel a collapse coming on, nowhere to sit, nothing to hold onto.
> 
> I was hoping it would never happen. Collapsing in public. But I knew it was about to happen. I scoped out the immediate area, just inside the bakery area, and went for the closest table to grab onto. Of course I could barely see or hear anything with that typical whiteout coming on. Before I got to the table I collapsed. Hard.
> 
> First a nice looking female associate came rushing over, then a group emerged around me as I sat up, everyone else stopping and staring at a distance.
> 
> Every time I tried to stand up, my legs would start convulsing uncontrollably. I told the group I was ok, just have hypotension as I shook like a sick patient in a hospital. 30 minutes later I was back in my car feeling perfectly normal. I guess this is just the life on Nardil.


I've been taking Nardil for 15 months now, so I guess I'm just past the one year mark of really feeling better. I hate the smell of them though, so no sniffing a new bottle of Nardil for me! 

Seems like you handled that situation quite well. Both being able to get yourself out of most people's way, and also being able to give a simple explanation that calmed the crowd down, not having anyone calling an ambulance on you. It's a shame you're still struggling with hypotension, tho. I hardly have any now, but I'm only at 45 mg.

I also experienced collapsing or nearly collapsing in public a few times. I remember having to throw myself down at the ground real quick before passing, right in front of an instructor near a swimming pool. Luckily I was also able to tell her that it's hypotension and that I am used to it, which quickly de-escalated the situation.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Glad to hear that, Tandorini. Hope no more trouble for you getting Nardil. Isn't it great getting a new bottle, looking in and smelling that full bottle of orange pills and feeling that nice sense of relief?
> 
> It's been a year since I felt the first effects of Nardil. It's been life changing. I can't believe something actually worked for my SA, never thought I'd finally get relief. I've put up with a year of side effects because nothing comes close to the nightmare of severe SA. I don't think these side effects will ever go away. It's kind of a bummer but I don't dwell on the negatives any more.
> 
> I haven't told anyone I know about this so figured I'd share it here. This week I pulled up to a grocery store, got out of my car and then got dizzy again while walking in. I could feel a collapse coming on, nowhere to sit, nothing to hold onto.
> 
> I was hoping it would never happen. Collapsing in public. But I knew it was about to happen. I scoped out the immediate area, just inside the bakery area, and went for the closest table to grab onto. Of course I could barely see or hear anything with that typical whiteout coming on. Before I got to the table I collapsed. Hard.
> 
> First a nice looking female associate came rushing over, then a group emerged around me as I sat up, everyone else stopping and staring at a distance.
> 
> Every time I tried to stand up, my legs would start convulsing uncontrollably. I told the group I was ok, just have hypotension as I shook like a sick patient in a hospital. 30 minutes later I was back in my car feeling perfectly normal. I guess this is just the life on Nardil.


wow that's crazy man, hoped that had stopped for you.
I sure hope nardil works as great for me as it has for you this time, i just want to live a normal life.
it is helping already that's for sure, just a ways to go yet.
Good to hear from you. don't be such a stranger, just rub it in like @SFC01 does :grin2:


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> wow that's crazy man, hoped that had stopped for you.
> I sure hope nardil works as great for me as it has for you this time, i just want to live a normal life.
> it is helping already that's for sure, just a ways to go yet.
> Good to hear from you. don't be such a stranger, just rub it in like @*SFC01* does :grin2:


Thats a bit harsh mate, I never talk about the fact that nardil worked perfectly for me, very quickly and without any side effects at all - none, zero, nothing. I've tried my best not to talk about my successful nardil story, no matter how brilliant it worked for me. Some people.

Anyway, all good with you?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Thats a bit harsh mate, I never talk about the fact that nardil worked perfectly for me, very quickly and without any side effects at all - none, zero, nothing. I've tried my best not to talk about my successful nardil story, no matter how brilliant it worked for me. Some people.
> 
> Anyway, all good with you?


ffs 

yep, early days. see the pdoc next thurs, may see if i can take it to 75mg.
i'm not used to this lack of SE's. I'm doing a you at the moment.

I literally just have the tiredness, which is much better now and a bit of constipation. everything else is normal.
slight pot belly, barely noticeable, nothing like that beautiful full moon i had last time. :grin2:

I gotta be careful not to speak too soon, even though it feels much longer it's only 3 weeks on monday since i started again.


----------



## V1bzz

I went to a BBQ today and not once did i feel the need to drink alcohol to feel at ease.
I don't know if it was because i was hiding behind shades but this is good progress! 

I know it doesn't sound like much but usually it's an ordeal, it was family and just a couple of people i didnt really know but i still usually feel really uncomfortable and want to hit the alcohol asap to feel at ease. Also, I start a new job tomorrow and i'm actually looking forward to it. :O

This is definitely good news for me :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

Weird cos today i felt anxious and paranoid when i went to a business ugh!!
Gunna see if i can go to 75 and also add something else to the mix. pregabalin if nothing else.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Weird cos today i felt anxious and paranoid when i went to a business ugh!!
> Gunna see if i can go to 75 and also add something else to the mix. pregabalin if nothing else.


Was this at your new job mate ? and was it quite severe anxiety etc?

Even if nardil works, you will still get some anxiety now and again but it should be in the normal range that almost everyone gets at certain times and situations. For example, certain calls or meetings at work can still make me a bit nervy now and again but only just before they start.

Its the chronic anxiety, worrying about ridiculous things forever etc that nardil stopped for me.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Was this at your new job mate ? and was it quite severe anxiety etc?
> 
> Even if nardil works, you will still get some anxiety now and again but it should be in the normal range that almost everyone gets at certain times and situations. For example, certain calls or meetings at work can still make me a bit nervy now and again but only just before they start.
> 
> Its the chronic anxiety, worrying about ridiculous things forever etc that nardil stopped for me.


It was really bad anxiety where i felt stupid,awkward,nervous and paranoid etc.
Just the horrible sh1t i get that makes me a mess for hours after.

I just had a really bad day, i nearly crashed the van on several occasions.

Was ok today. anxious at times though.

I went up to 75mg yesterday. see the pdoc on thurs and will ask for high dosage of pregabalin as it seems to be less tiring and more energizing at ranges between 200-600.
So i've read. I will act dumb about going to 75, he said to go to 60mg until i seen him but i did tell him 75mg was more consistent (well many have wrote that).

I remember when i tried to overdosed on it. had zero anxiety the next day but couldn't walk properly either.

Think i took about 2000 or so mg.

I read a few threads of people saying the pregab/nardil combo was like taking the old nardil. Just a great combo so am willing to try it again.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> It was really bad anxiety where i felt stupid,awkward,nervous and paranoid etc.
> Just the horrible sh1t i get that makes me a mess for hours after.
> 
> I just had a really bad day, i nearly crashed the van on several occasions.
> 
> Was ok today. anxious at times though.
> 
> I went up to 75mg yesterday. see the pdoc on thurs and will ask for high dosage of pregabalin as it seems to be less tiring and more energizing at ranges between 200-600.
> So i've read. I will act dumb about going to 75, he said to go to 60mg until i seen him but i did tell him 75mg was more consistent (well many have wrote that).
> 
> I remember when i tried to overdosed on it. had zero anxiety the next day but couldn't walk properly either.
> 
> Think i took about 2000 or so mg.
> 
> I read a few threads of people saying the pregab/nardil combo was like taking the old nardil. Just a great combo so am willing to try it again.


Yeah you get used to whatever pregab dose you are on so it shouldn't make you tired after a while but if you got stuff to do like work then you don't wanna start off too high.

I was on 600mg when I started nardil and dropped it after 6 months or so, I didn't notice any change in mood or anxiety when I stopped so for me it seemed like nardil did all the work.

Definitely worth another try for you though mate


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah you get used to whatever pregab dose you are on so it shouldn't make you tired after a while but if you got stuff to do like work then you don't wanna start off too high.
> 
> I was on 600mg when I started nardil and dropped it after 6 months or so, I didn't notice any change in mood or anxiety when I stopped so for me it seemed like nardil did all the work.
> 
> Definitely worth another try for you though mate


I was reading that it provides gaba or something for the nardil to synthesize.

Basically feeds the nardil.

Something like that, defo worth a shot. I drove to North London today, was very emotional fighting to stay awake for 90% of the journey.
Had to pop 4 caffeine pills on the journey back, that sorted me out for a few hours.

It's the same as what it used to do, as soon as im mentally and physically relaxed my head goes.

I remember Pregab making me feel super lazy last time, (not that i was keen to work then feeling as bad as i did any way) working part time was hard work. at least its something i can deal with unlike the nardil narcolepsy sh1t ive got again. am thinking it will be a different experience with nardil in my system.

Think it took nearly a year to pass last time, well not pass, just be more manageable.


----------



## WillComp

I've nodded off 4 times trying to gather my thoughts and make a post. The last 2 times I actually had a a dream. Let's see if I can get through this. 
@V1bzz- good to hear you're back on Nardil. What's the major difference between Nardil and Parnate?

Ok, that time fell asleep for 30 min.this is nuts.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I've nodded off 4 times trying to gather my thoughts and make a post. The last 2 times I actually had a a dream. Let's see if I can get through this.
> 
> @V1bzz- good to hear you're back on Nardil. What's the major difference between Nardil and Parnate?
> 
> Ok, that time fell asleep for 30 min.this is nuts.


Man sorry to hear your still struggling with the tiredness crap, just know though that your not alone cos I bloody am too, was nearly falling asleep in the pharmacy ffs. Frustrated i'm back to relying on caffeine tablets to stay awake while driving long distances.

Ok so I have started lyrica today, taking 75mg morning and 75mg afternoon for 2 weeks then going to 200mg a day. I've decided to drop back to 60mg nardil as am noticing pot belly, constipation, anorgasmia and muscle fatigue at 75mg. can't be arsed with all that sh1t again.
Have read really good things about this combo and how pregab really potentiates nardil.

@WillComp umm parnate sort of gave me motivation when it kicked in. didn't help at all with my anxiety though. not sure it done much for me but nothing really does.


----------



## V1bzz

_"The findings of randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses together indicate that pregabalin is efficacious in both acute treatment and relapse prevention in GAD, with some evidence of an early onset of effect, and broad efficacy in reducing the severity of psychological and physical symptoms of anxiety. *It also has efficacy as an augmenting agent* after non-response to antidepressant treatment in GAD"_


----------



## unemployment simulator

I tried asking the doctor about nardil yesterday, he didn't know what it is... tbh it isn't the first time I have been around to the surgery and asked their opinions on drugs and them having no idea what they are. different doctor didn't know a lot of the drugs I had looked up for insomnia the other week.


----------



## V1bzz

unemployment simulator said:


> I tried asking the doctor about nardil yesterday, he didn't know what it is... tbh it isn't the first time I have been around to the surgery and asked their opinions on drugs and them having no idea what they are. different doctor didn't know a lot of the drugs I had looked up for insomnia the other week.


Yeah GP's are useless, I don't bother with them. Maybe ask for a referral to a Psychiatrist?


----------



## V1bzz

SoulFant said:


> Guys, how do you feel about such https://escortinamsterdam.info/ girls? You once had with them, I wonder how they are in bed. I now want to try, but I still can not decide))


You will have to ask @SFC01 he's the expert at that kinda thing.

update about lyrica, i feel it helping nardil already. my mind has felt more at peace since i started taking it. like i feel like i'm not thinking about things as much.

good stuff, am tired but have been in a pretty good mood all day.

Fighting the afternoon tiredness at the moment after just finishing work.


----------



## unemployment simulator

V1bzz said:


> Yeah GP's are useless, I don't bother with them. Maybe ask for a referral to a Psychiatrist?


yea good idea thanks. it would be nice to talk to a specialist as well.


----------



## V1bzz

unemployment simulator said:


> yea good idea thanks. it would be nice to talk to a specialist as well.


Hopefully you shouldn't have a problem. Just tell them you need to see someone who is more qualified with mental health.


----------



## Sweeto

Hi guys when I have longterm bp 100/50 is it considered as hypotension? Normally I have 125/70-80


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hi guys when I have longterm bp 100/50 is it considered as hypotension? Normally I have 125/70-80


I would throw a guess and say it was, prob why you done the ole collapse the other week. you just need to get from sitting or lying down slower.
I would say like when you went to the store you should maybe stand up and wait for a bit to see if anything is going to happen.

I'm feeling a bit of hypotension today, my bp is 101/69 with a pulse of 109, still in the normal range though according to the chart.

Your normal in one and low in the other.


----------



## Sweeto

Thanks. Nardil is really good for mood and sa. I was able to communicate with family members with confidence. I han a family meeting yesterday and I stayed calm all the time, for the first time in a long time. I'm on 90mg 4 weeks, overall 6,5 weeks on Nardil.

I would like to ask if I lower my dosage to 15mg for 2 days will anorgasmia go away? My side effects are anorgasmia, insomnia and weight gain. I can deal with both insomnia and weight but not anorgasmia.


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## Sweeto

Bump


----------



## WillComp

Sweeto said:


> Bump


I know what you mean,Sweeto. Anorgasmia is a nightmare - I haven't found a way to cure it and I've been on Nardil for more than a year. Ive tried lowering to 45 from my routine dose of 75, and also down to 15 for a couple days, and none of that worked for me.

For me, the best way to cope with it is to try the 90 day nofap thing. Of course it's difficult at first, then you just stop thinking about it. May be Tmi, but every morning now I wake up with the best MWs I've ever had. After 90 days it still might not work but at least I have hope. Libido is as high as ever now. In the big scheme, 90 days isn't all that much. I have 3 wks left and these past 70 days have been awesome. Good luck if you try it out. When you don't have to worry about it, you'll get much better sleep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I know what you mean,Sweeto. Anorgasmia is a nightmare - I haven't found a way to cure it and I've been on Nardil for more than a year. Ive tried lowering to 45 from my routine dose of 75, and also down to 15 for a couple days, and none of that worked for me.
> 
> For me, the best way to cope with it is to try the 90 day nofap thing. Of course it's difficult at first, then you just stop thinking about it. May be Tmi, but every morning now I wake up with the best MWs I've ever had. After 90 days it still might not work but at least I have hope. Libido is as high as ever now. In the big scheme, 90 days isn't all that much. I have 3 wks left and these past 70 days have been awesome. Good luck if you try it out. When you don't have to worry about it, you'll get much better sleep.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have it again now too :crying:
seems to kick in at 60mg and up.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> I have it again now too :crying:
> seems to kick in at 60mg and up.


Yep, that's what it was for me when I first started. Would you believe, for the first time ever, I'm beginning to wonder if it would be best to come off Nardil, or maybe just lower the dose for a while.

The main reason is because yesterday I had the worse nightmare come true. Im still shaken up by it. I actually had a major hypertensive episode.

From the research I've done, not too many people get it, but the few that have had one weren't being careful. To all the regulars here on Nardil, you guys have to be careful. Food restrictions are real, and trust me, you don't want one of these. I'm scared to death at what happened to me, I'm scared to eat now, and I'm constantly going over in my head different scenarios that could've happened.

It started after eating a marinated grilled chicken sandwich and a piece of baklava for lunch at a non-chain restaurant.. one of those mom and pop restaurants. I've eaten the same thing before but I'm pretty sure that was before Nardil. The last few times I've eaten this sandwich, and especially yesterday, I specifically noticed an increase in dopamine. Eating it just makes you feel so good, it tastes incredible and it feels like i'm on 3 benzos.

Thirty minutes later I'm back at work and my heart starts beating very hard and forceful but not at a fastened pace, almost like hard heart palpitations. I was a little alarmed but kept on doing my work. After about 10 minutes, the pounding moved to the back of my head. This is where it all went to hell.

The headache became so painful within about 15 minutes. It just kept getting worse and worse, and of course I knew what was happening. It got so bad that I didn't realize humans could take that much pain. Worst pain I've ever been in by far. I was grabbing the back of my head with both hands for dear life, because if felt like a hammer was slashing and slicing through the back of my head. I'm not exaggerating.

When the worst migraine I had ever had started to subside, after 45 min, I just started bawling (in the privacy of my closed door office) and couldn't stop. During the episode, I had actually thought I was going to have a stroke or a seizure. I was so shook up and scared out of my mind from what had just happened, I felt sick all over and decided to leave work.

I called the restaurant, finally got through and talked to the manager. He said they marinate in a mixture of sauces including soy. :O
Even today I still feel sick, have chills and a slight headache that hasn't gone away. I'm starving too, still scared ****less to eat. Im petrified now about having another episode.

To all you Nardil users, not trying to scare you, just wanted to relay my experience and remind everyone to be careful with the food interactions on Nardil. Those hypertensive episodes are a lot worse than I thought. Trust me, you don't want one of these! :crying:


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Yep, that's what it was for me when I first started. Would you believe, for the first time ever, I'm beginning to wonder if it would be best to come off Nardil, or maybe just lower the dose for a while.
> 
> The main reason is because yesterday I had the worse nightmare come true. Im still shaken up by it. I actually had a major hypertensive episode.
> 
> From the research I've done, not too many people get it, but the few that have had one weren't being careful. To all the regulars here on Nardil, you guys have to be careful. Food restrictions are real, and trust me, you don't want one of these. I'm scared to death at what happened to me, I'm scared to eat now, and I'm constantly going over in my head different scenarios that could've happened.
> 
> It started after eating a marinated grilled chicken sandwich and a piece of baklava for lunch at a non-chain restaurant.. one of those mom and pop restaurants. I've eaten the same thing before but I'm pretty sure that was before Nardil. The last few times I've eaten this sandwich, and especially yesterday, I specifically noticed an increase in dopamine. Eating it just makes you feel so good, it tastes incredible and it feels like i'm on 3 benzos.
> 
> Thirty minutes later I'm back at work and my heart starts beating very hard and forceful but not at a fastened pace, almost like hard heart palpitations. I was a little alarmed but kept on doing my work. After about 10 minutes, the pounding moved to the back of my head. This is where it all went to hell.
> 
> The headache became so painful within about 15 minutes. It just kept getting worse and worse, and of course I knew what was happening. It got so bad that I didn't realize humans could take that much pain. Worst pain I've ever been in by far. I was grabbing the back of my head with both hands for dear life, because if felt like a hammer was slashing and slicing through the back of my head. I'm not exaggerating.
> 
> When the worst migraine I had ever had started to subside, after 45 min, I just started bawling (in the privacy of my closed door office) and couldn't stop. During the episode, I had actually thought I was going to have a stroke or a seizure. I was so shook up and scared out of my mind from what had just happened, I felt sick all over and decided to leave work.
> 
> I called the restaurant, finally got through and talked to the manager. He said they marinate in a mixture of sauces including soy. :O
> Even today I still feel sick, have chills and a slight headache that hasn't gone away. I'm starving too, still scared ****less to eat. Im petrified now about having another episode.
> 
> To all you Nardil users, not trying to scare you, just wanted to relay my experience and remind everyone to be careful with the food interactions on Nardil. Those hypertensive episodes are a lot worse than I thought. Trust me, you don't want one of these! :crying:


omg dude i would be shaken up too. I have also experienced one of those headaches though not as bad as yours but yes the pain is unbelievable, can't remember what i ate or did though to cause it.

Just eat something safe dude, some toast or something, i have toast every morning, i dont know if bread is allowed but it must be as i have never felt bad after.
Just go for something safe that you have eaten a thousand times and had no problems with.

my hypotension is also back but its not constant like before. i get it when i stand up quick and feel crappy for ages after and also trying to do a poopenhausen with this damn constipation.
I have the dreaded 3 again plus am defo feeling fatigued too.

mate never eat at that joint again ffs. i avoid gravy like the plague here as i imagine that would do the same thing.
Gotta be careful, those evil headaches can do one!!


----------



## V1bzz

Wish me luck, i have an interview for a driving job that sounds decent, working for barnado's.
Feel like crap in a big way though, this heat doesn't help!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Wish me luck, i have an interview for a driving job that sounds decent, working for barnado's.
> Feel like crap in a big way though, this heat doesn't help!


Good luck mate - hope it goes well.


----------



## V1bzz

@WillComp, drop to 45mg for a week, should help the anorgasmia. if you start to feel really anxious it's just a case of upping up your dose again.
May do you some good dropping down for a little bit. it will ease up that hypotension too.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Good luck mate - hope it goes well.


Cheers mate, went ok i think. They were interviewing people all day before me and continued after me so we will see.

Man the nardil fatigue has hit me big time today, forgot how debilitating it can be, i just feel totally worn out. Horrible. typing even makes me feel worn out.


----------



## V1bzz

My BP is 112/78 (Normal range) so not sure why I have hypotension and muscle fatigue. 
I always get them together 
Also have anorgasmia and constipation huff.

It feels like longer but have been on Nardil for 4 weeks and Pregabalin for 1 week.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> My BP is 112/78 (Normal range) so not sure why I have hypotension and muscle fatigue.
> I always get them together
> Also have anorgasmia and constipation huff.
> 
> It feels like longer but have been on Nardil for 4 weeks and Pregabalin for 1 week.


How is the pregabalin going mate ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> How is the pregabalin going mate ?


Not sure yet to be fair, felt much better today fatigue wise and also anxiety wise but its because i have a head cold. weird how head colds make anxiety a bit easier.

I do generally feel more chilled and have a nice feeling in my body some evenings.
I think i've gotta give it another week or two. next thurs i up the dose of pregab to 200mg a day.

I've just been to the vet and felt anxious around the fit receptionist, was fine around the female vet though, i'm just weird.


----------



## V1bzz

took 250mg pregabalin today. really like that dose to be fair.
Going to go up to 200mg a day tomorrow.


----------



## Nekobasu

V1bzz said:


> took 250mg pregabalin today. really like that dose to be fair.
> Going to go up to 200mg a day tomorrow.


what does it do? I never taken that before


----------



## V1bzz

Nekobasu said:


> what does it do? I never taken that before


Kinda makes me less aware, not always a good thing. makes me crap at playing call of duty ww2 lol.

Not entirely sure what it does as only been on it a week but sure it does something combined with Nardil.

I took it in the past on it's own but it wasn't effective enough. I overdosed on it and had zero anxiety the next day but couldn't walk in a straight line.
I guess it's about finding the right dose where it provides enough gaba for nardil to synthesize to eliminate the vast different areas of different kinds of anxiety i have.

Nardil on it's own is very effective on different kinds of things but not effective enough for me to go out of the house when i'm not working.
I'm hoping this combo can allow me to be social again without paranoia and other things that makes me feel aweful.

Still a way to go yet.

I'm in a clan in call of duty and i have only just been able to start wearing a headset with mic. even something like that is a big thing for me. I use it sometimes when im not feeling too uncomfortable to wear it and talk to people i don't know. Even if i knew them it would be uncomfortable, maybe even more so. I don't know, it one of my things that make life hard.


----------



## V1bzz

How is everyone getting on?
@SFC01 @Sweeto @watertouch @Tandorini @WillComp @Gillman fan


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> How is everyone getting on?
> 
> @*SFC01*
> @*Sweeto*
> @*watertouch*
> @*Tandorini*
> @*WillComp
> *
> @*Gillman fan*


Yeah all good with me mate, almost down to 25mg amitripyline which i take for my elbow - all seems fine. Need to get back to Gillman fan as he pm's me back. He seemed all ok though.


----------



## Sweeto

Nardil already kicked in for me. I've got depression and anxiety relief. It took 7 weeks overall, 5 weeks on 90mg. I've also desire to get things done and no suicidal thoughts.

What about you?



V1bzz said:


> How is everyone getting on?
> 
> @SFC01
> @Sweeto
> @watertouch
> @Tandorini
> @WillComp
> @Gillman fan


----------



## SFC01

@Sweeto, thats good news mate.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah all good with me mate, almost down to 25mg amitripyline which i take for my elbow - all seems fine. Need to get back to Gillman fan as he pm's me back. He seemed all ok though.


Have you ever thought about going back on pregabalin for the pain?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Nardil already kicked in for me. I've got depression and anxiety relief. It took 7 weeks overall, 5 weeks on 90mg. I've also desire to get things done and no suicidal thoughts.
> 
> What about you?


I'm at 5 weeks yesterday, maybe 4 weeks at 60mg. I will have been on pregabalin 2 weeks this thursday. I have not felt great like i did for those 3 days yet but do have anxiety relief. not consistent relief yet though. I do feel more motivated to get up and to work though. My mood is still sitting on the fence where I'm still not motivated to be social.
I go to 200 mg a day pregablin on thursday and will take it higher if I need to.
I'm a bit hesitant to go up to 75mg Nardil because of the fatigue and pot belly, Nardil makes me put on so much weight around my stomach, I hate it. it effects me negatively. I hate feeling bloated like this and holding my stomach in all day.

i'm hoping to feel much better in the next 2-3weeks, fingers crossed.

The pot belly is back, maybe at a half moon at the moment but im fighting it with doing leg raises every morning and trying to ignore my urges to eat loads of cookies.

I did have a set back last week as my nephew didn't invite me to his stag do week long holiday, actually kept it all secret from me which really hurt my feelings. I now have told him I won't be at his wedding if he feels so ashamed of me. I was really looking forward to everything and am totally gutted I have to do this.

I hate that people still judge me from when I was really depressed in 2012.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Have you ever thought about going back on pregabalin for the pain?


Haven't ruled it out mate as it was very good for pain as well but would rather see if amitriptyline @ 25mg does the job.

Problem with pregab is the weight gain side effect although I was on max dose before - maybe a much lower dose of it would work for pain with no sides.

To be honest, would rather just be on nardil now as amitriptyline has the anticholinergic side to it and with that, a small increased risk of dementia over the long term, though 25mg is a tiny dose so would pose a lot less than a small increase risk of that.

Was quite painful after pregab and before amit so will see how it goes.

Thinking of seeing how 60mg of nardil rather than 75mg goes. What do you all reckon ?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Haven't ruled it out mate as it was very good for pain as well but would rather see if amitriptyline @ 25mg does the job.
> 
> Problem with pregab is the weight gain side effect although I was on max dose before - maybe a much lower dose of it would work for pain with no sides.
> 
> To be honest, would rather just be on nardil now as amitriptyline has the anticholinergic side to it and with that, a small increased risk of dementia over the long term, though 25mg is a tiny dose so would pose a lot less than a small increase risk of that.
> 
> Was quite painful after pregab and before amit so will see how it goes.
> 
> Thinking of seeing how 60mg of nardil rather than 75mg goes. What do you all reckon ?


Worth a try mate as you can always go back up if 60 mg doesn't suit you.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Worth a try mate as you can always go back up if 60 mg doesn't suit you.


Yeah you are right, obviously been off it a few times for various reasons and always worked again so maybe about time to give it a go.

So things looking up for you on the nardil/pregab combo ?

You also need to come up with one of your nicknames for prebab


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Yeah you are right, obviously been off it a few times for various reasons and always worked again so maybe about time to give it a go.
> 
> So things looking up for you on the nardil/pregab combo ?
> 
> You also need to come up with one of your nicknames for prebab


Gotta be pregabby lol

I don't tell anyone this but i will here to explain how i felt. My parents always slag me off and put me down, it's a regular thing. They were doing it again and my head went kinda light and slightly spinny and the hearing in my ears sort of went bad. it got really hard to hear.
Now I have mild semi orgasmic body rushes but feel a bit sick and weak.

I will speak to my pdoc when i see him next and see if he can help me get somewhere on my own again.
Really is hard to deal with always being put down and things I say twisted and thrown back at me.
I rarely speak to them because of that and just stay in my bedroom all the time.

I know none of this can be helping me get to a better place in my life.
It's just difficult to get somewhere when im quitting jobs all the time cos of my emotions being all over the place all the time.

I had that business which i quit when i came off nardil. then i worked for another driving company which i suddenly hated when i came off parnate.

I've been doing irregular work for an agency for about a month but start a trial tomorrow driving for dr barnados.

I really hate not feeling in control like this. I cant wait for the drive and motivation nardil gave me first time to come back. even though i still felt awful i had that and enjoyed working because of it.

Last time i had nice body rushes nardil kicked in for 3 days. even though its really mild now hopefully it's a good sign.

I need some help to make some changes in my life and not worry about doing them as much.

Not writing this for anyone to feel sorry for me. had to say to explain how my body reacted.
It was very weird.


----------



## V1bzz

Went on a trial day for the new job and everything went good. I was chatty and felt a lot less anxious.
Some way to go yet but I am much better than usual.

Just need to try and lift my mood some how. I miss feeling happy and excited about things.


----------



## Sweeto

I finally could achieve orgasm after over the 1,5 month. For them who are suffering from Nardils anorgasmia I have a solution.

My daily dose is 90mg split to 2 doses. Yesterday I decided to lower my dose to 30mg and day after I can cum! I lowered my dose to get rid of side effects and after awhile I will come back to 75mg. This is likely the only one possibility to avoid poop out and side effects at the same time.


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I finally could achieve orgasm after over the 1,5 month. For them who are suffering from Nardils anorgasmia I have a solution.
> 
> My daily dose is 90mg split to 2 doses. Yesterday I decided to lower my dose to 30mg and day after I can cum! I lowered my dose to get rid of side effects and after awhile I will come back to 75mg. This is likely the only one possibility to avoid poop out and side effects at the same time.


Also try in the morning before nardil gets into your system, i find that works usually.


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 @WillComp @Sweeto @Gillman fan

Did we ever come up with a solution for the nardil moon belly? mine has come back with a vengeance literally over night. I have been doing leg raises every single day yet it has just suddenly popped my belly back out like a full moon. I'm now back to holding my stomach in and still looking like the fat controller off of thomas the tank engine.


----------



## cigpk

V1bzz said:


> @SFC01
> @WillComp
> @Sweeto
> @Gillman fan
> 
> Did we ever come up with a solution for the nardil moon belly? mine has come back with a vengeance literally over night. I have been doing leg raises every single day yet it has just suddenly popped my belly back out like a full moon. I'm now back to holding my stomach in and still looking like the fat controller off of thomas the tank engine.


I notice that high carb foods make me bloated like crazy so maybe avoid some of those when possible? activated charcoal helped slightly but not enough to continue use.

I take magnesium at night and have 1/2 cup of oatmeal with my breakfast every morning and this essentially eliminated any constipation I have with nardil. I notice the bloating much more when I'm constipated personally.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01*
> @*WillComp*
> @*Sweeto*
> @*Gillman fan*
> 
> Did we ever come up with a solution for the nardil moon belly? mine has come back with a vengeance literally over night. I have been doing leg raises every single day yet it has just suddenly popped my belly back out like a full moon. I'm now back to holding my stomach in and still looking like the fat controller off of thomas the tank engine.


I dont believe a word you are saying mate - I need photo evidence on this thread of your moon belly !! lol

Will probably go down at some point - drink more water perhaps ? Helps with bloating I think.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I dont believe a word you are saying mate - I need photo evidence on this thread of your moon belly !! lol
> 
> Will probably go down at some point - drink more water perhaps ? Helps with bloating I think.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


>


Wish I hadnt asked now mate haha !!

Still, not moon size yet, nasa will have to wait to capture the next image.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Wish I hadnt asked now mate haha !!
> 
> Still, not moon size yet, nasa will have to wait to capture the next image.




it's cos im fighting it, ive done like 50 leg raises today and worked and been up since 0430.
Tried to take a nap when i got home about 3pm but taking 10 caffeine tablets wouldnt allow it lol


----------



## V1bzz

cigpk said:


> I notice that high carb foods make me bloated like crazy so maybe avoid some of those when possible? activated charcoal helped slightly but not enough to continue use.
> 
> I take magnesium at night and have 1/2 cup of oatmeal with my breakfast every morning and this essentially eliminated any constipation I have with nardil. I notice the bloating much more when I'm constipated personally.


Yeah i tried activated charcoal the first time, and water retention tablets and trapped air tablets and a million other things lol.

what a horrible side effect it is. yeah it puffed up cos i had a cookie craving day. done two packs of choc chip cookies and 2 packets of choc trackers. been bloated ever since.

I hate my cookie cravings on nardil, so intense!!


----------



## V1bzz

I'm going to do all my meds in the morning tomorrow to see how i feel. thats 60 mg nardil and 200 mg preggy.

I've been taking it 30 mg morning +100 preggy, (i find taking the pregab 10 mins or so before puts me in a better mood then i take the other two and other 100 preggy when i get home.

will let you know how i feel. i used to do it all in one go first time and had really bad side effects!

The preggy is defo helping with the sore joints nardil gives me, it reminds me sometimes its there and its really painful.

Can't believe all i put up with first time, i must have been a nutter a year ago!!


----------



## V1bzz

Felt pretty good today. woke up at 0530 and done 200mg preggy and 60mg nardil. decided to take another 100mg preggy about 10am and have been kinda feeling like i want to do something. feeling abit more social. i was going to take a drive but cant be arsed putting petrol in it.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Felt pretty good today. woke up at 0530 and done 200mg preggy and 60mg nardil. decided to take another 100mg preggy about 10am and have been *kinda feeling like i want to do something*. feeling abit more social. i was going to take a drive *but cant be arsed putting petrol in it*.


but not too much eh lol

Glad you are feeling ok mate !!


----------



## V1bzz

any of you guys got urinary retention?
Ive had it building over the last week or so, not too bad at the moment but i now have to sit down wee.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> but not too much eh lol
> 
> Glad you are feeling ok mate !!


Thanks. My mood seems to be settling down a bit and maybe even now edging just above of the borderline level.
Good news 
It's nice to wake up and just feel ok. not restless or bored, fed up etc


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Thanks. My mood seems to be settling down a bit and maybe even now edging just above of the borderline level.
> Good news
> It's nice to wake up and just feel ok. not restless or bored, fed up etc


Thats good to hear, maybe the lyrica with nardil is the way to go - as you know I was on it to when I started nardl.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Thats good to hear, maybe the lyrica with nardil is the way to go - as you know I was on it to when I started nardl.


Indeed.
I do feel slightly hungover in the mornings until i take my meds though.


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Indeed.
> I do feel slightly hungover in the mornings until i take my meds though.


From lyrica you think ? that should go.

You take twice a day lyrica?


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> From lyrica you think ? that should go.
> 
> You take twice a day lyrica?


Yeah twice a day, guessing it must be the lyrica as it has a short half life, hence the needing to take it twice a day.

I have real concerns at the moment with the constipation, increasing urinary retention, growing feeling of muscle fatigue and this damn pot belly, it's getting out of hand again!

My balls are also halfway to my knees >:O everything is dead down there :frown2:

Without those problems above I would be going great!


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> Yeah twice a day, guessing it must be the lyrica as it has a short half life, hence the needing to take it twice a day.
> 
> I have real concerns at the moment with the constipation, increasing urinary retention, growing feeling of muscle fatigue and this damn pot belly, it's getting out of hand again!
> 
> My balls are also halfway to my knees >:O everything is dead down there :frown2:
> 
> Without those problems above I would be going great!


I'm sure some of those will go mate, do you drink much water ?

Re lyrica, it doesnt have a particularly short half life, you can take once a day if you want but doing both am and pm dose in one go may **** u up a little to start with until you get used to it. If happy with twice a day then stick with it.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> I'm sure some of those will go mate, do you drink much water ?
> 
> Re lyrica, it doesnt have a particularly short half life, you can take once a day if you want but doing both am and pm dose in one go may **** u up a little to start with until you get used to it. If happy with twice a day then stick with it.


I see my pdoc on the 14th and will ask to go up in dose then.
I will give it a try tomorrow, just do both pregab in the morning.

I did all my meds in the morning yesterday (i think it was) and felt pretty good and also very slightly fubared, but in a good way all day 

I only went up to 200 a day last thursday so looking forward to seeing how i feel when it kicks in.

Pdoc said most his patients get good results at 150-200mg on nardil cos they work with each other.
Can defo see that as pregab did nothing for me last time. also made me feel lazy as fkcuk and this time seems to be more activating in its own weird kinda way.

Still early days, hopefully i've found a winning combo, hopefully it will keep increasing my mood and keep helping the nardil 

I think i will ask my pdoc for some short term treatment for the narcolepsy type thing i get when driving.
He seems to be more willing to give me what I ask for now (within reason) now that he has seen first hand how sick i can really get.

2 appointments ago I seen him when i had come off of Parnate. I was a right fickucking mess.
I honestly thought I was going to have to go to the hospital because the intensity of how I felt made me feel like i was going to collapse, my body kept getting pins and needles.

I had forgot how intense all of that **** was, can't believe i managed to live unmedicated.

Don't ever want to go back to that!


----------



## PeterMartin

Prune juice will get you to take a s&(* if you really need to - at least it always does me. Way better than any medicine. Get a jug of Sunsweet (or the UK equiv), chunk a glass, and 3hrs later you'll be cleaning house.

Urinary retention is my prob now too. 90mg for about a month. Pretty bad yesterday and today (like almost can't go at all). Been trying dandelion & Stinging Nettle.

Not trying to jump in on a thread but I was doing decent until Saturday when I decided to get a b12 shot. Holy fk it killed me. Depression/Anxiety and slept all day yesterday. Wt gain. Ugh and after a pretty good week last week I'm thinking this morning I need to call my doc and get off. 

Came to this form in the hopes that I'll remind myself a pound or two up after a bad weekend should have me make a rash decision.

I wish I felt better though. I used Marplan (MAOI) for 8yrs w/o ever being bugged my side effects. It didn't do the social confidence stuff Nardil does but for me It was just what I needed. I'm still wondering if Nardil has actually kicked in which is sad. Started 4months ago at 60, a few weeks at 75, and now 4 weeks at 90. Also take Metformin (finally at max 2k) but wt is still up about 8lbs. I too could post a half moon belly photo but yes they're not good looks 

Enjoying your guys' banter. Thanks for letting me vent.


----------



## V1bzz

PeterMartin said:


> Prune juice will get you to take a s&(* if you really need to - at least it always does me. Way better than any medicine. Get a jug of Sunsweet (or the UK equiv), chunk a glass, and 3hrs later you'll be cleaning house.
> 
> Urinary retention is my prob now too. 90mg for about a month. Pretty bad yesterday and today (like almost can't go at all). Been trying dandelion & Stinging Nettle.
> 
> Not trying to jump in on a thread but I was doing decent until Saturday when I decided to get a b12 shot. Holy fk it killed me. Depression/Anxiety and slept all day yesterday. Wt gain. Ugh and after a pretty good week last week I'm thinking this morning I need to call my doc and get off.
> 
> Came to this form in the hopes that I'll remind myself a pound or two up after a bad weekend should have me make a rash decision.
> 
> I wish I felt better though. I used Marplan (MAOI) for 8yrs w/o ever being bugged my side effects. It didn't do the social confidence stuff Nardil does but for me It was just what I needed. I'm still wondering if Nardil has actually kicked in which is sad. Started 4months ago at 60, a few weeks at 75, and now 4 weeks at 90. Also take Metformin (finally at max 2k) but wt is still up about 8lbs. I too could post a half moon belly photo but yes they're not good looks
> 
> Enjoying your guys' banter. Thanks for letting me vent.


No problem, really hope nardil kicks in for you so you notice a difference in your anxiety/mood.
Prune juice, yeah i think i've heard/read that before about it making you sh1t everything out lol.

What did marplan make you feel like? i've always wondered.

I expect that B shot made you feel like crap, if i'm remembering correctly nardil has a bit of a thing with B vitamins and you have to be careful how much you have.

Maybe @SFC01 could be more helpful on this subject? or @watertouch if he's back online again


----------



## V1bzz

I've got hypotension today but my blood pressure is perfect 104/77. Far from low. Very strange!


----------



## PeterMartin

V1bzz said:


> I've got hypotension today but my blood pressure is perfect 104/77. Far from low. Very strange!


Did you take it sitting or standing?

Take it sitting, then stand up and take it again. That's when you should see the drop which causes you to feel they hypotension.

My BP earlier today was 79/58 (yeash) but better than very high as it was a few years ago (135/90).

I think my issue w/ Nardil kicking in may be somewhat related to Metformin which I started at the same time to try to prevent weight gain. Almost every time I've increased my Nardil does I've increased my Metformin dose too. Last night I tried taking an immediate Metformin instead of the Extended and I felt soooo bad this morning (verge of tears). Now I feel much better though. So could be that the MET at 2000 is too much. Might try a day or two off. I can't afford to gain any weight though......ugh.

I don't feel anymore ill effects that could be from the B12 shot today though so that's a plus.


----------



## V1bzz

PeterMartin said:


> Did you take it sitting or standing?
> 
> Take it sitting, then stand up and take it again. That's when you should see the drop which causes you to feel they hypotension.
> 
> My BP earlier today was 79/58 (yeash) but better than very high as it was a few years ago (135/90).
> 
> I think my issue w/ Nardil kicking in may be somewhat related to Metformin which I started at the same time to try to prevent weight gain. Almost every time I've increased my Nardil does I've increased my Metformin dose too. Last night I tried taking an immediate Metformin instead of the Extended and I felt soooo bad this morning (verge of tears). Now I feel much better though. So could be that the MET at 2000 is too much. Might try a day or two off. I can't afford to gain any weight though......ugh.
> 
> I don't feel anymore ill effects that could be from the B12 shot today though so that's a plus.


Ok mine is...

Sitting - *102/74*
Standing - *76/54*

That's the lowest its been this time i think. Funny as i've not experienced any hypo today.


----------



## Sweeto

Hey mate, do you have any benefits from Nardil? I had to stop taking it cos of SE obviously &#128512;



V1bzz said:


> PeterMartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you take it sitting or standing?
> 
> Take it sitting, then stand up and take it again. That's when you should see the drop which causes you to feel they hypotension.
> 
> My BP earlier today was 79/58 (yeash) but better than very high as it was a few years ago (135/90).
> 
> I think my issue w/ Nardil kicking in may be somewhat related to Metformin which I started at the same time to try to prevent weight gain. Almost every time I've increased my Nardil does I've increased my Metformin dose too. Last night I tried taking an immediate Metformin instead of the Extended and I felt soooo bad this morning (verge of tears). Now I feel much better though. So could be that the MET at 2000 is too much. Might try a day or two off. I can't afford to gain any weight though......ugh.
> 
> I don't feel anymore ill effects that could be from the B12 shot today though so that's a plus.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok mine is...
> 
> Sitting - *102/74*
> Standing - *76/54*
> 
> That's the lowest its been this time i think. Funny as i've not experienced any hypo today.
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Hey mate, do you have any benefits from Nardil? I had to stop taking it cos of SE obviously &#128512;


Yeah its defo working, I don't feel amazing like i did for those 3 days though. I've been on nardil 6 weeks now and pregabalin for 3 weeks. My anxiety is musch better and the pregabalin is helping with the paranoid side of things. Still not perfect yet but I can go up in dose on both meds.

I think you went too high too fast mate, hence the bad side effects. Mine are very minor. Worst one is fighting to stay awake when i drive for longer than 30 minutes.

I had to go in a room today with 3 people in, i knew one of them but not the other two. As usual i got the sense of dread about going in there but i just went for it, once in it was fine and i felt able to communicate with ease and talk to one of the guys i didn't know.

I'm still anxious and nervous at times but I am slowly improving.

Don't give up on it again mate, just drop down to 60 mg and slow it all down a bit.

First time round it never worked for me at all and i think it was because i rushed it.
I took a different mindset this time around and that was not to rush it and to not over think about whether its working or not and obsess over it like i did the first time.

Ask your pdoc is you can try the lyrica/nardil combo.

It's possible my side effects are not as bad because pregabalin is also a pain killer.

I've got a long way to go but I think i'm slowly getting there.


----------



## Sweeto

Nice to hear that you're improving and it actually works for you. What about anorgasmia and weight gain?
I'm off of Nardil approximately for 7 days and I'm still suffering from nasty sweating and I actually have the same SE like when I was on 90mg but not as strong though.

I could stand almost all those bad side effects (including anorgasmia and weight gain) but sweating is something that is killing me right now. I cannot do anything just be at home and stare at the wall, only than I'm fine. When I was thinking about to start taking Nardil, I was actually ready for everything regarding SE but this is as fcuking bad as you can imagine...

Now I'm feeling great and without depression and anxiety although I left my old friend Nardil quite a long ago so we'll see



V1bzz said:


> Sweeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey mate, do you have any benefits from Nardil? I had to stop taking it cos of SE obviously &#128512;
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah its defo working, I don't feel amazing like i did for those 3 days though. I've been on nardil 6 weeks now and pregabalin for 3 weeks. My anxiety is musch better and the pregabalin is helping with the paranoid side of things. Still not perfect yet but I can go up in dose on both meds.
> 
> I think you went too high too fast mate, hence the bad side effects. Mine are very minor. Worst one is fighting to stay awake when i drive for longer than 30 minutes.
> 
> I had to go in a room today with 3 people in, i knew one of them but not the other two. As usual i got the sense of dread about going in there but i just went for it, once in it was fine and i felt able to communicate with ease and talk to one of the guys i didn't know.
> 
> I'm still anxious and nervous at times but I am slowly improving.
> 
> Don't give up on it again mate, just drop down to 60 mg and slow it all down a bit.
> 
> First time round it never worked for me at all and i think it was because i rushed it.
> I took a different mindset this time around and that was not to rush it and to not over think about whether its working or not and obsess over it like i did the first time.
> 
> Ask your pdoc is you can try the lyrica/nardil combo.
> 
> It's possible my side effects are not as bad because pregabalin is also a pain killer.
> 
> I've got a long way to go but I think i'm slowly getting there.
Click to expand...


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Nice to hear that you're improving and it actually works for you. What about anorgasmia and weight gain?
> I'm off of Nardil approximately for 7 days and I'm still suffering from nasty sweating and I actually have the same SE like when I was on 90mg but not as strong though.
> 
> I could stand almost all those bad side effects (including anorgasmia and weight gain) but sweating is something that is killing me right now. I cannot do anything just be at home and stare at the wall, only than I'm fine. When I was thinking about to start taking Nardil, I was actually ready for everything regarding SE but this is as fcuking bad as you can imagine...
> 
> Now I'm feeling great and without depression and anxiety although I left my old friend Nardil quite a long ago so we'll see


Yep i have the pot belly, it's hard to take a p1ss, constipation and anorgasmia.

Just take 60 mg and see how you get on, the sweating may calm down with time.


----------



## Sweeto

I'm off of Nardil for 10 days. What will happen if I start to take it again now? Do I have to wait to kick in?


----------



## V1bzz

I ate 2 packs of cookies today, Nardil makes me have a real bad craving for cookies.
Since about an hour after I ate them I have felt really unwell and full of hypotension.

I know from the past not to eat cookies (they used to bring on narcolepsy), this is the first time though they have made me feel really bad.

Just in case you didn't know, I fckucking love cookies :frown2::crying:


----------



## Sweeto

I know that feeling, I ate 25 000 kJ of food (well, it was actually chocolates and candies) every single day while on Nardil. The worst was I didn't get any craving relief, I was hungry 24/7


----------



## Sweeto

I have to repeat my previous question cos it could be late soon.

I'm not taking Nardil for 10 days and I still thinking about continuing it. Do I have to take Nardil for another 6 weeks to get some effects?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> I have to repeat my previous question cos it could be late soon.
> 
> I'm not taking Nardil for 10 days and I still thinking about continuing it. Do I have to take Nardil for another 6 weeks to get some effects?


I don't think it will take that long to get going again. stick with it this time, stay at 60 mg for a bit.

Could you ask your pdoc to add pregabalin? (Lyrica), I feel like it is preventing serious side effects.


----------



## Tandorini

Still doing quite well. Still working. I have tried limiting my naps for a while now, I want to see what is the Nardil fatigue, and what has just become a habit. So I try fighting through the afternoon fatigue, and actually haven't slept during day time for the past week. I do get tired, but my experience is that sometimes it passes, and I'm fine again after a while.


I'm gonna let myself have a nap when I need one, but I just want to try and see whether part of it has become habit now, and I really can do without a nap some days.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Still doing quite well. Still working. I have tried limiting my naps for a while now, I want to see what is the Nardil fatigue, and what has just become a habit. So I try fighting through the afternoon fatigue, and actually haven't slept during day time for the past week. I do get tired, but my experience is that sometimes it passes, and I'm fine again after a while.
> 
> I'm gonna let myself have a nap when I need one, but I just want to try and see whether part of it has become habit now, and I really can do without a nap some days.


Good to hear from you.
Yes i'm fighting through the afternoon nap fatigue right now.
Trying to keep distracted, world cup has started and messing about with my car :nerd::grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01 can you answer my mail pls mate


----------



## SFC01

V1bzz said:


> @*SFC01* can you answer my mail pls mate


Hi mate, didnt see any mail - a pm yeah ? Sorry if I missed it.

I`ll email you in a bit on the gmail address


----------



## Tone

Nardil was crap and Emsam now is crap for me. Medications that work well with the least side effects will never be allowed. Thats all Im going to say because its so controversial. Hint: *there is no one particular system of the brain that is magically immune from a genetic or developmental defect... any & all are prone.*.. this includes the ratio of Mu to Kappa activity in the brain's OPIOID system.


----------



## V1bzz

SFC01 said:


> Hi mate, didnt see any mail - a pm yeah ? Sorry if I missed it.
> 
> I`ll email you in a bit on the gmail address


Cheers mate, try to hurry though as would like to get it tomorrow. don't think i will now though :frown2:
I asked for the link for the armoddy. not sure why you didnt get the mail, maybe i fooked it up lol


----------



## Tandorini

Once again - trouble delivering Nardil here. It was a problem in April/May as well, but I thought everything would be solved after that. I tried ordering Nardil today, and was told there are problems again. Luckily there are plenty of pharmacies who still have it in stock, but the ones who do not have it, won't be able to order it now. 



Last time it happened the only available Nardil expired that same month. At least the batch that's here now lasts till December. Suppose I should stock up on the few bottles that still are around.


----------



## V1bzz

Bit personal but my balls are cold to the touch, it's like they are totally dead!

any of you guys experience this at any point on nardil? @SFC01 @WillComp @Sweeto

I also have urinary retention really bad again at the moment. Oh also hypotension has kicked in. I look at it as a positive sign though that nardil is getting to work. I'm also glad when i see dark yellow piss, take a nardil poo after constipation and it has that odour and also doing nardil farts. I know that is gross but it confirms to me it is working.
All of this stuff stopped for me last time and nardil didnt work.

Trying to take the positives out of everything lol

Flipping anorgasmia is killing me, just need to stop trying now and wasting hours of my life.


----------



## Sweeto

@V1bzz Mate I feel sorry for you then. I didn't experience anything similar but Nardil is the only one med in the world that fully castrated me. My penis has returned to normal state after 2 weeks since last dose of Nardil. I can't imagine anything stronger to kill ejaculation and cause most severe sexual issues of various types than Nardil lol.

But hold on! There are too many posts that claim it's the matter of time to get rid of most of them


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> @V1bzz Mate I feel sorry for you then. I didn't experience anything similar but Nardil is the only one med in the world that fully castrated me. My penis has returned to normal state after 2 weeks since last dose of Nardil. I can't imagine anything stronger to kill ejaculation and cause most severe sexual issues of various types than Nardil lol.
> 
> But hold on! There are too many posts that claim it's the matter of time to get rid of most of them


I have it really bad, worst i've ever had it. google 'amantadine for anorgasmia'
apparently it helps but im not sure if it can be taken with nardil


----------



## V1bzz

@SFC01

I had a armoddy today and fell asleep watching the football. woke up and thought wtf so dropped another one. Still couldn't feel anything really but a bit of alertness so I dropped a third one.

Without realizing till now because my jaw is starting to gurn i had set up a party on call of duty ww2 ad=nd invited a load of people and was chatting **** for a couple of hours.

I have that weird sort of come down feeling now in my body where i sort of feel a bit uneasy and nervous.
My arm pits are soaked with sweat and i kinda feel fubared haha


----------



## V1bzz

Man I have really bad water retention, it's so uncomfortable. I actually fell asleep on the toilet last night for 3 hrs trying to pee.


----------



## V1bzz

I am really ill today. ive never experienced anything like this. i have urinary retention, really bad hypotension. it's so bad its making me fall asleep. i'm fighting to keep my eyes open and then i drop off and get the head shock and wake up again. I also have muscle fatigue worse than i have ever had before, my muscles in my arms are burning just writing this post. Just walking down the stairs and my leg muscles are burning and in agony.

I drunk cans of cider on friday and think i must have had a really bad reaction because of the pregabalin.

its really weird because the top of my head feels really bruised and sore. I'm writing this and burning up close to sweating.

not sure wtf is going on, i had to ring work and say i couldn't work tomorrow. I think if i'm this bad tomorrow i may need to go to the hospital!


----------



## V1bzz

**** guys, i went downstairs and got a drink. then just remember waking up in the corner of my room thinking why the **** am i lying here. opened my eyes and the drink and everything else was on the floor.

didn't have no warning about collapsing, it just happened.

I'm scared as ****.
@SFC01 @Gillman fan i don't know what to do!!


----------



## Sweeto

Mate you should get rid of Nardil. It's not worth it trust me. Why do you think Nardil is forbidden in many countries?



V1bzz said:


> **** guys, i went downstairs and got a drink. then just remember waking up in the corner of my room thinking why the **** am i lying here. opened my eyes and the drink and everything else was on the floor.
> 
> didn't have no warning about collapsing, it just happened.
> 
> I'm scared as ****.
> 
> @SFC01 @Gillman fan i don't know what to do!!


----------



## Sweeto

What about your SA btw?


----------



## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> What about your SA btw?


It feels much better. still not where i want to be yet though.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> It feels much better. still not where i want to be yet though.


I noticed my last post was deleted. Is there a reason the admin deletes posts - did I post something inappropriate? :crying:

@*V1bzz* : I'd say stick with Nardil. Maybe it just takes a very long time staying on a stable dose. Two weeks ago I went on vacation and lowered my dose for a few days and I'm still not feeling the same. I guess it works differently for everyone. For me, if I tweak my perfect stable 'sweet spot' and then go back to it, it takes a long time to feel the same relieving effects. Sending positive vibes your way! 0


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> I noticed my last post was deleted. Is there a reason the admin deletes posts - did I post something inappropriate? :crying:
> 
> @*V1bzz* : I'd say stick with Nardil. Maybe it just takes a very long time staying on a stable dose. Two weeks ago I went on vacation and lowered my dose for a few days and I'm still not feeling the same. I guess it works differently for everyone. For me, if I tweak my perfect stable 'sweet spot' and then go back to it, it takes a long time to feel the same relieving effects. Sending positive vibes your way! 0


Yeah thats a bit weird deleting posts. can't remember you saying anything out of order :O


----------



## jtd1974

Apparently something happened with the site and three days' worth of posts were deleted...


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Apparently something happened with the site and three days' worth of posts were deleted...


wow that's mad :O


----------



## jtd1974

A small update ... I had to stop taking amantadine for amorgasmia after only a few days :frown2: It was making me black out when going from sitting to standing etc. I've never had this with the Nardil alone. My pdoc says to leave things be with just the Nardil for a while. I'm going overseas soon so don't want to be adjusting to any new meds while I'm away.

Other options to try are cabergoline (though I remember AtlantaPhobic saying it made him manic) and another one I found mentioned on a few forums, bethanechol. There's a thread here.

I've been on 90mg Nardil for a few weeks but am thinking of going back to 75mg. I know it probably hasn't been long enough to tell, but I haven't noticed much benefit in the jump to 90 and I've been having trouble focusing on tasks at work, and feeling kind of unmotivated. I just want to sit around looking at stuff on my phone lol.

For me, the anorgasmia really kicked in when I went higher than 60mg. But at that dose I felt I wasn't getting enough anti-anxiety effect. Thinking if I maybe stay at 75mg the anorgasmia might even get better with time.


----------



## WillComp

I've been on a yatus since March 11 - it's been well over 100 days since my last 'try'. Sometimes I feel like I don't ever care about trying anymore. Been there, done that. The other part of me is saying, get back into that animal mode. Go crazy, be wild, like I've always been.. before Nardil. 


I think there's a high likelihood that my next go at it (this weekend while on vacation) will feel like going back to my high school and college days with no sign of anorgasmia. I shall see! :nerd:


----------



## V1bzz

lol kinda feels wrong to say let us know how it goes...also that sucks about the blacking out, looks like nardil is just a ****** for anorgasmia. I got close last night then no cigar, really felt like i was going to succeed!! it must be months by now, so frustrated and horny lol


----------



## WillComp

LOL I hear you, mate. It's so damn frustrating. I have a gut feeling there's something out there that no one knows about yet that when mixed with Nardil makes you finish whenever you want. It only works when taken with Nardil. Not only is it easy to finish with a grand finale every time, it also makes you hornier and more confident with less SA. There's so much unknown sh*t about Nardil, and at the same time there's so many herbs/supplements being created all the time, there has to be that magical chemical out there. I'm on a mission!

Hey @jtd1974 - I agree with your approach of dropping to 75 and staying there. That's where I'm at. I'd also suggest taking a break if you can. If you take some time off, chances are the next time you try, you'll get closer and maybe finish. That's happened with me. But don't do it when you're sleepy or exhausted. Only go at it when you're extra horny and fully awake.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> LOL I hear you, mate. It's so damn frustrating. I have a gut feeling there's something out there that no one knows about yet that when mixed with Nardil makes you finish whenever you want. It only works when taken with Nardil. Not only is it easy to finish with a grand finale every time, it also makes you hornier and more confident with less SA. There's so much unknown sh*t about Nardil, and at the same time there's so many herbs/supplements being created all the time, there has to be that magical chemical out there. I'm on a mission!
> 
> Hey @jtd1974 - I agree with your approach of dropping to 75 and staying there. That's where I'm at. I'd also suggest taking a break if you can. If you take some time off, chances are the next time you try, you'll get closer and maybe finish. That's happened with me. But don't do it when you're sleepy or exhausted. Only go at it when you're extra horny and fully awake.


LOL can't believe we are having a convo about [email protected] advice 

I kinda want to go to 75mg now but im afraid of getting fatter :crying:
Having multiple spare tyres really affects my confidence and anxiety levels.

I'm such a weird case because I got myself a new car and i know it should make me feel more confident but actually i feel more anxious at petrol stations and that because it is drawing attention to me. Just wish this anxiety would fkcuk off!!










Think I will do 75 for a week or two and see how it affects my weight.

Oh i have been doing 200mg modafinil every morning when I work and I find it is really sweet for getting through the day, you just give zero fkcuks and just crack on feeling abit weird lol, in a good way. do feel slightly on edge though anxiety wise sometimes.


----------



## WillComp

LOL I know, right? >


Who'd have thunk it? I guess we can all use advice, especially those of us on Nardil who are going crazy and will eventually quit cuz they'd rather wank.


----------



## V1bzz

Finding I have lost a lot of interest in things since being on 300mg pregab a day. am thinking of dropping to 150, 200 when i get some 50's and going up to 75mg Nardil.

@WillComp I was able to do the deed the other night, couldn't believe it > :teeth

On the other side of the coin had a date last saturday, ended up going back to her place, had some great oral for about an hour then bam, I went limp d1ck. Could not get a boner for anything, Was so damn embarrassed!!


----------



## WillComp

@V1bzz How long did you stay off Nardil when you quit recently? And did you ever get back to your normal 'finish any time you go at it' self? I wanna get back to the pre-Nardil days when I could finish any time I want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Elfpatch

I'm sorry to intrude on this post. Just registered and haven't figured out a 'fresh' post yet. Question is probably for nardil heavyweights; moved up to 75 mg and experience the wonderful hypomania EXACTLY 2 weeks after the increase for about 3 weeks. After it passed (and knowing it would) I moved up to 90mg. 90 mg is what worked when I took it in the past is why I take 90. It's been 2 weeks at 90mg and no 'bliss' stage. In fact I feel horrible. Inner tension. No energy. Spacey, loopy, lightheaded. Is this just the beginning of the coming euphoria? Not sure what to do. Thanks in advance


----------



## Tandorini

Every single action I do in here now, resultas in the popupthingy with me having to say yes or no to tailored ads. I press a link, it's there. I go to next page, it pops up again. Way too annoying. Unless that goes away I'm done in here.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz How long did you stay off Nardil when you quit recently? And did you ever get back to your normal 'finish any time you go at it' self? I wanna get back to the pre-Nardil days when I could finish any time I want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can I just say first how annoying, pushy this stupid ad thing is. Until I accept targeted ads every page i go to it pushes on me again even after stating no i dont want targeted ads multiple times. it's really p1ssing me off!!!

Mate i withdrew from nardil, was normal for a week then started on parnate. I honestly wouldn't advise stopping, It was hell, all of my illness came back on a holiday and I didn't leave my room the whole time. I don't ever want to go back to how I felt ever again!

Mate I was able to orgasm the whole time not on nardil. even until I went up to 60mg.

The way I done it last time and got mega super out of control horney shooting cum all over the place lmfao was when i dropped down to 45. you got to leave it at 45mg for at least 3 or 4 days.

You can try it mate but i wouldnt **** too much with how much nardil is helping you just incase it messes up and doesn't work properly like it doesn't for me.

drop to 45, if you start to feel all the old sh1t come back go back up by banging down 90mg for a day then returning to 75mg.
If you know nardil always works for you when changing dose then do it, if you don't i wouldnt risk it to be honest mate.

I'm about to test out this PEA in a few days, supposed to be really good with nardil and its also called a love drug and euphoric drug.
If it helps with my anorgasmia i will scream it here first :grin2:>:wink2::nerd:0


----------



## V1bzz

Elfpatch said:


> I'm sorry to intrude on this post. Just registered and haven't figured out a 'fresh' post yet. Question is probably for nardil heavyweights; moved up to 75 mg and experience the wonderful hypomania EXACTLY 2 weeks after the increase for about 3 weeks. After it passed (and knowing it would) I moved up to 90mg. 90 mg is what worked when I took it in the past is why I take 90. It's been 2 weeks at 90mg and no 'bliss' stage. In fact I feel horrible. Inner tension. No energy. Spacey, loopy, lightheaded. Is this just the beginning of the coming euphoria? Not sure what to do. Thanks in advance


Hi, you are not intruding at all. I think it's probably normal. If you think of it as if nardil is rewiring your brain at the moment. I would say if it doesn't pass or improve after a week maybe you have gone up to quick and maybe go 75mg one day, 90mg the next until the weird head feelings lessen.
If it doesn't improve I would say speak to your Pdoc just to make sure everything is ok. Also take your blood pressure if you can, it's a good thing for helping you see whats going on inside your body.

Hope my advice helps in some way, sure some others will chip in 

Welcome to SAS, i was so glad when I found this place after starting nardil. The people here have helped me get through some tough times indeed.
@Tandorini yeah it's p1ssing me off too!!


----------



## jtd1974

Elfpatch, in my experience you can't rely on getting that euphoric feeling. I got it at the start after a week on 45mg, then it passed after 2 or 3 weeks. Since then I've increased to 90mg and have now settled at 75mg. I'm getting a consistent anti-anxiety effect and am comfortable and confident talking to people, although the euphoria has not returned.

One other unrelated thing ... I had a big weekend with a lot of drinking and ended up having a few puffs on a joint that was offered. Bad idea ... I quickly became very paranoid  I'm not sure if it was the mix of alcohol, weed and nardil or whether it's best to steer clear of cannabis altogether while taking nardil. I'm not a regular smoker though, so maybe it just hit me hard. The paranoia was thankfully gone the next day ...


----------



## 969033

I thought this forum was sensible but I can see I was wrong


----------



## V1bzz

I had hypertensive crisis yesterday, do not wish that on anyone so please be careful with things you try!

My blood pressure shot up really high and the headache was the worst pain ever. I jumped into a luke warm shower to cool myself off and sat in the shower air drying for about an hour to keep me cool while i was sweating buckets and was collapsed in the shower, sitting there unable to do anything but hold my head in agony. That passed after about an hour and my bloody pressure dropped really dangerously low. Once the headache had completely gone i had no energy and was barely able to walk. I then had really bad hypotension, took a reading and it was barely on the chart, can't remember what it was now. I feel asleep feeling really ill at about 1pm and have only just woke up today at 8am.

I still feel really bad, just took my blood pressure and its 95/57 so still pretty low. I have bad hypotension every time i stand up. 

Just trying to normalize everything now by drinking tea and my Himalayan pink salt juice i have replaced straight water with.

That was bad times folks, just try not to forget how serious it is for us to be careful and not think ahhh fckuk it, i'll be alright, ive never had anything give me that.

I honestly thought I was going to have a heart attack or stroke. hope none of you ever get to experience what I did yesterday and am still feeling today. Not worth it!


----------



## V1bzz

Onlytheone said:


> I thought this forum was sensible but I can see I was wrong


Not in this thread :grin2:>

It's possible you may find some normal people in other threads but i doubt it :nerd:


----------



## 969033

V1bzz said:


> Not in this thread :grin2:>
> 
> It's possible you may find some normal people in other threads but i doubt it :nerd:


Well, at least there is one new normal person around now.

Do I know you ? ah sorry its the belly, i knew someone that had one that like that once :grin2:


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> I had hypertensive crisis yesterday, do not wish that on anyone so please be careful with things you try!
> 
> My blood pressure shot up really high and the headache was the worst pain ever. I jumped into a luke warm shower to cool myself off and sat in the shower air drying for about an hour to keep me cool while i was sweating buckets and was collapsed in the shower, sitting there unable to do anything but hold my head in agony. That passed after about an hour and my bloody pressure dropped really dangerously low. Once the headache had completely gone i had no energy and was barely able to walk. I then had really bad hypotension, took a reading and it was barely on the chart, can't remember what it was now. I feel asleep feeling really ill at about 1pm and have only just woke up today at 8am.
> 
> I still feel really bad, just took my blood pressure and its 95/57 so still pretty low. I have bad hypotension every time i stand up.
> 
> Just trying to normalize everything now by drinking tea and my Himalayan pink salt juice i have replaced straight water with.
> 
> That was bad times folks, just try not to forget how serious it is for us to be careful and not think ahhh fckuk it, i'll be alright, ive never had anything give me that.
> 
> I honestly thought I was going to have a heart attack or stroke. hope none of you ever get to experience what I did yesterday and am still feeling today. Not worth it!


Wow, you have any idea what brought it on? Sounds scary as hell. I probably woulda called the emergency number - they most likely would have fukced up things even further, but no way I would wanna suffer alone like that!

Are all you guys getting the pop up about cookies or whatever, and just hitting yes or no to hide it every single page turn? Because that's what I gotta do. I have seen a few threads on it, but there's no way I'm browsing through this forum for answers, getting that message every few seconds, I think I might have a hypertensive crisis just from those popups alone.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Wow, you have any idea what brought it on? Sounds scary as hell. I probably woulda called the emergency number - they most likely would have fukced up things even further, but no way I would wanna suffer alone like that!
> 
> Are all you guys getting the pop up about cookies or whatever, and just hitting yes or no to hide it every single page turn? Because that's what I gotta do. I have seen a few threads on it, but there's no way I'm browsing through this forum for answers, getting that message every few seconds, I think I might have a hypertensive crisis just from those popups alone.


Yeah i get them too, really annoying.

It happened because I took a 200mg capsule of PEA - Phenylethylamine and Hordenine. Supposed to be great at improving mood and also helping burn off fat.

This might help you understand how ill I got, I thought i would just take the pea powder i have on its own today but only a really small dose of 10mg...so i took and 10 minutes later guess what?? another hypertensive crisis, lasted about 40 mins, the headache where you feel like your head will explode, sweat dripping out of your body and feeling really ****uckin ill.

When the pain went i was left with serious hypotension for hours, every time i stood up i couldnt see cos my vision went with weird kinds of patterns, the ringing on the ears and this time a new thing ive not experienced before, my hands start shaking, jerking really bad like im having a seizure until i sit down and let it calm away.

it's 12 o clock midnight now and i still feel pretty ill. i think it might be some weird kind of hangover.
@Onlytheone yes im the infamous poster of the moon like pot belly :teeth


----------



## WillComp

@V1bzz those hypertensive episodes are crazy, aren't they. I had the same experience, just like you described. It's so weird to me that we all experience the same thing, even these hypertensive episodes. Mine started out as heavy heart thumps, got me a bit concerned, then within about 30 min it moved to the back of my head and soon became so painful, all I could do was hold on to the back of my head with both hands as hard as I could. I didn't know I was capable of feeling that much pain, it felt like someone was bashing my head in with a baseball bat, it was that bad. Scary stuff! Hope none of us experience that shiit again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz those hypertensive episodes are crazy, aren't they. I had the same experience, just like you described. It's so weird to me that we all experience the same thing, even these hypertensive episodes. Mine started out as heavy heart thumps, got me a bit concerned, then within about 30 min it moved to the back of my head and soon became so painful, all I could do was hold on to the back of my head with both hands as hard as I could. I didn't know I was capable of feeling that much pain, it felt like someone was bashing my head in with a baseball bat, it was that bad. Scary stuff! Hope none of us experience that shiit again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah not nice at all, i pretty much dealt with it the same as you, just held my head as hard as i could. I still have a headache now!

Did you p1ss out about 20 gallons of sweat too?

really flipping scary times!!


----------



## V1bzz

Guess who went and got himself prescribed klonopin today woop :grin2:

Sorry im not on much at the moment, those damn popups are driving me crazy!!


----------



## V1bzz

oh they have gone woooohooooooooooooooo @Tandorini


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> oh they have gone woooohooooooooooooooo @*Tandorini*


Yeah, I just realised. About bloody time, too.


----------



## V1bzz

I tell thee, 60 mg nardil, 100 mg pregabalin, 750 microgram of klonopin, 1 vit B complex, 5 mg lithium seems to be a pretty damn good combo.

If only i could get rid of this agonizing head ache i have had since i had the hypertensive reaction.
I swear i've opened the doorway now cos it seems that everything i eat i get heart palpitations and a banging head ache


----------



## V1bzz

I was in Tesco today (a big supermarket) and was looking for some star bars because I love them. Spotted this packet of chocolate and caramel biscuits, thought mmm yum, haven't had them in a while.

Shortly after eating them I remembered why....welcome back mr narcolepsy, they knocked me the fluck out all afternoon from lunch time and then I really really really had to force myself to get up.

When it first kicked in i was sat outside smoking a roll up and I kept falling asleep.

Amazing isn't it!! :O
@WillComp @Tandorini @SFC01


----------



## V1bzz

I did a co-codamol codeine water extraction today. Very simple to do. Tastes nasty as fluck but makes you feel super chill :nerd:

New tech house mix - https://www.mixcloud.com/V1bzz/grotesque-tech-house/ :boogie


----------



## V1bzz

How is everyone?

My life is a complete mess at the moment


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> How is everyone?
> 
> My life is a complete mess at the moment


Not doing too great. Been working way too much over the summer, which has resulted in increased depressive symptoms. Finally saw the doctor, and he put me on partly sick leave, so that I work a bit less just to get back on track. The whole thing's been a great disappointment to me - finally back to work and feeling "normal" again, and now, once again, my schedule is full of doctor's appointments, meetings with my boss, and my head is full of thoughts about the future.

I am just so exhausted, yet I can't sleep during the day, like I did before. So exhausted, it's almost like the Nardil fatigue. Yet I know it can't be the Nardil in itself, as it's unlikely that a side effect should show up after having passed. Which again makes me question whether it was the Nardil that made me so exhausted in the first place, or if it was just me and my head.

When I go to work my head just fills up after an hour or two, and I am not as focused as was for a while there. I can still do my work, but I am really, really scared of having to take more time off work and going back to the semi-life I lived for a while.


----------



## Tandorini

Pdoc wanting me to increase the dosage of Nardil. Tried telling him about the fatigue and stuff. I hate being depressed because it may mean time off work if my condition doesn't improve. Yet, the most obvious solution, which is increasing Nardil, will also be probable to keep me away from work, due to increased fatigue... No real good options here, it seems. He wanted to see me again in a week, and we'll decide then. If I haven't improved much by then, I may have to increase the Nardil.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Pdoc wanting me to increase the dosage of Nardil. Tried telling him about the fatigue and stuff. I hate being depressed because it may mean time off work if my condition doesn't improve. Yet, the most obvious solution, which is increasing Nardil, will also be probable to keep me away from work, due to increased fatigue... No real good options here, it seems. He wanted to see me again in a week, and we'll decide then. If I haven't improved much by then, I may have to increase the Nardil.


Can you ask him for a low dose of pregabalin, i have a feeling it will do some good for you whilst on nardil. I just take 50mg or 100mg depending on how my head is doing.
my advice is to not go higher than that cos it changes you. it did me anyway. it did help but changed my personality so that i lost interest in everything, like dj'ing, producing etc.

hope you feel better soon. i have to go to court next month and be cross examined for up to 30mins cos the police are trying to get me for drink driving which i didnt do. was just sitting in the car with the engine on and heater with two flat tires. *******s!!

what a horrible place to put me with my mental health problems, standing in a damn trial court making me feel like a scum bag trying to make me out to be a bad person.


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Can you ask him for a low dose of pregabalin, i have a feeling it will do some good for you whilst on nardil. I just take 50mg or 100mg depending on how my head is doing.
> my advice is to not go higher than that cos it changes you. it did me anyway. it did help but changed my personality so that i lost interest in everything, like dj'ing, producing etc.
> 
> hope you feel better soon. i have to go to court next month and be cross examined for up to 30mins cos the police are trying to get me for drink driving which i didnt do. was just sitting in the car with the engine on and heater with two flat tires. *******s!!
> 
> what a horrible place to put me with my mental health problems, standing in a damn trial court making me feel like a scum bag trying to make me out to be a bad person.


That's really awful, having that amount of stress put on you. And next month as well - that's torture, having to wait for something like that, rather than just getting it over with. I woulda been so stressed out, and I don't even have much anxiety in the first place. Really hope it all turns out for the best for you.

Pregabalin was just upgraded to a controlled substance here. Dunno how it works in other countries, but we've got three groups; A (morfin, anaestetics and such), B (all the benzos, and also stuff like ambien), and C (everything else that is on prescription, from heart meds to antihistamines). Anyway, pregabalin used to belong to group C, but has now been "upgraded" to group B. It's to make the doctor's more aware of the dangers of addiction to it.

Anyway, I don't wanna ask for anything else, I don't want to treat side effects with other meds. I am quite sure I wouldn't get a prescription even if I tried or wanted to, so it's not really a choice I've got anyway.

Hopefully I will get better within the next appointment with the pdoc, which is a week from now, and I won't have to do any changes to my meds. I was just reading some notes I made while on higher doses, and even though I told me pdoc higher doses give me fatigue, I totally forgot all the other stuff that bothered me. The Nardil chills which made me feel like it was the bones in themselves that were made of ice, and the lactic acid, the twitching, the waking up at 4 am, the hypotension (readings at 53/37 a couple of times).

But if I have to I have to. I'll do anything not to get depressed again. Anything not to be an inpatient again, losing out on the life I was steadily building while Nardil was having effect. I don't wanna go see the pdoc or other psychiatric staff once or twice a week, risking a semi-ok day getting worse just by having to be reminded all the time that I am not well. So yeah, I'll increase the dose if I have to. But I'm going to try getting better by myself in the meanwhile.


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## Tandorini

5 days into 60 mg Nardil, and the Nardil chills are back. I'd forgotten how bad they were. At night, just before I fall asleep, a sudden incredible coldness, having to curl up, pull the covers over my head, just wait for it to pass, not able to get up and put on more clothes, it's just too cold. I should have increased to 60 mg during the hot streak this summer.



Been freezing all day too, but nothing like the night time chills I get.


Yeah, and there's some hypotension, not too bad yet. But it's been a while since my vision got blurry, and that's definitely back.


And the fatigue. Yup. It's there. And the early awakenings.



I want to get better from my depression in order to stay working, but then again, the medication might be the thing that in the end gets me signed off sick. Just gotta try hanging in there for now.


For now at least, I don't have the lactic acid feeling. And no muscle weakness. I really hope that won't bother me this time around.


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## TupacForever

Guys any help please?

I'm so lost right now I don't want to end up in the hospital again or dead...

In august 2017 i went on Nardil and got off it in the end of November 2017 due to the impairing side effects. I then went into a horrific withdrawal where I felt literally dissociated from reality, had hallucinations, and the most horrific emotional and mental pain along with a feeling of dopamine (amphetamine-like) withdrawal. I ended up in the hospital at the end of december and was discharged Jan 3rd.

The next several months I could not get better at all, and I tried medications such as abilify, and pramipexole. Abilify made me horrifically numb after the first day and I couldn't eat or sleep and felt like I was in a severe dopamine withdrawal just right after taking it, I continued taking it for about a week and it got worse. And i also got severe RLS to the point that i couldn't sleep for weeks after. I soon started getting horrific panic attacks and had to leave work again, and my doctor wouldn't give me benzos but gave me gabapentin and it didn't do anything. Then going on pramipexole it also on the first day made me horrificly numb like i had no dopamine, and also gave me the worst anxiety. i couldn't eat, or do ANYTHING. Was truly becoming even more suicidal but i stayed on it an entire month, but over the course of the month it gave me horrific feelings of zero dopamine in my system.

By the end of march I couldn't take it anymore and was about to kill myself so I went back on Nardil. I stayed on Nardil until the end of May and once the side effects become unbearable again I went off. The next several months I was without a psychiatrist (mine moved across the country) and because of medicaid was having insane difficulty getting one at all. I saw one out of pocket who put me on Parnate but it didn't do much except make me severely anxious, and then we tried emsam which once again like the pramipexole made me severely numb and anxious. After that i couldn't afford to pay out of pocket to see him again.

I then found this place that takes medicaid that helps for emergencies for a month while pairing you with another place long term after you finish there. So, not knowing what else to do, I went back on Nardil a month and a half ago. After 3-4 weeks i felt better, was on it for just over two weeks before realizing i was doing the same **** over again as i could not sleep anymore (even with hardcore sleep meds) and was suffering the other impairing side effects again. I decided to start withdrawing asap before i waited longer and would endure an even worse withdrawal.

So as of two days ago (tuesday 9/11) it was 15 days out from the withdrawal, and i read about this combination from the famous Dr. Gillman online on his site where he recommends zoloft and nortrytaline. i have a full bottle of zoloft 50mg left over from months ago when my old psychiatrist gave it to me before he moved, and so i started the 50mg last tuesday. I felt oddly a bit stimulated for the first couple hours, and then all of a sudden it did the same thing that the pramipexole did and the abilify did, in that i became extremely severely numb, and couldn't eat that night, couldn't sleep, was getting RLS, couldn't feel anything whatsoever (feeling of severe lack of dopamine), and due to all of this i started to get extremely severe panic attacks that night that have been going since. I obviously didn't take zoloft the last couple days but am still feeling very numb and extreme panic that i will probably have to severely cut my hours down at work to almost nothing.

For my whole life i've had depression, anxiety, and numbness/adhd issues. I was on various stimulants (never lasted long, always crashed) when i was younger on and off, then tried zoloft, other ssris, other medications, took a break with no meds for a year or more and tried TMS and ketamine, worked in therapy for years, tried many supplements and nootropics, exercise, mediation and a lot more.

As you can see, i've been in this horrible on and off cycle with Nardil for the past year, and this year has been the most panicky, numb, and painful and difficult of my life. When i used to be on no meds, and even on ssris, i still had depression, anxiety, and some "dopamine" like numbess, but it was never like this. I would go back and take that level of functioning if I somehow can. Because it was never like this. The relief from Nardil is good, but side effects each time are very impairing. I'm not sure what to do but really would like to go back to being on an ssri in combination with something like notryptaline. It's just every medicine I try since being on Nardil back a year ago seems to put me into a severe numb dopamine withdrawal-like state. I'm fearing that nardil might have messed with me a great deal. Please if anyone has any experience or any ideas.


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## WillComp

@*TupacForever* - I can relate to what you're going through. I've been on Zoloft and other anti-anxiety meds and felt horrible. I've tried em all throughout the years and nothing worked. The only thing that finally worked was a combination of 75mg Nardil (I weigh 175), 25mg Atenolol daily, and .5mg of Clonazepam as needed.

I'm down to only taking Clonazepam 2 or 3 times a week. Before Nardil, I used to take Clonazepam 4 or 5 times a week. I only take it on the most stressful days of the week.

I've been on Nardil 75mg for a year and a half now.. consistently, which I believe is important. Consistency is the key. Take em at the same time every day, keep a log/journal to make sure you don't forget to miss a dose, and take it on an empty stomach (then wait 30min-1hr to eat). I take 2 at 6:00am and 3 at 8:30pm every day (my alarm on my phone reminds me).

I've been through hell with the side effects of Nardil. I've fainted more than I can count, even in public, I've had the worst hypotensive episodes with white-outs almost daily for the 6 months. Seizure-like attacks. I've had terrible injuries/cuts from collapsing, I've had flu-like symptoms, anorgasmia, narcoleptic-like symptoms (out of nowhere my eyes start getting heavy and closing on me, and before I know it I'm nodding off, and yelling in my sleep, even at work).

I've thrown up, I've had the debilitating muscle soreness, couldn't walk for more than 100 yards, sometimes couldn't use shampoo because my arm was too sore reaching up and would become exhausted. I've even had 3 major hypotensive episodes where my heart would beat out of my chest followed by intense migraine headaches where I felt like I was dying. All of this was so incredibly tough, but I refused to come off Nardil. I would have rather died than go back to pre-Nardil anxiety, that's how unbearable my life was pre-Nardil.

Now after a year and a half, side effects haven't fully subsided, however their frequency is much less and more manageable. It seems like as time goes on, the intensity and frequency lowers so that when something does happen, I'm just grateful it's not a daily occurrence and only happens once a month or so now. I'm so grateful now that I didn't give up and side effects have become manageable. I hardly ever get dizzy any more, I'm hardly ever sore, and now I'm running 2-3 miles twice a week and playing competitive basketball (high intensity interval training) for about an hour 5 days a week.

I'm finally back in shape, have lost a lot of weight, and plan to continue with weight training later in the winter. Best of all, my SA is almost completely gone. I can talk to anyone as if I'm talking with my brother, and it almost feels like 90% of my SA has been wiped out. I still can't gather the courage to speak up in meetings with 40 other people, and I still have sickening anticipatory anxiety, I still have anorgasmia which is the worst side effect now, but on a daily basis, those everyday typical anxiety-provoking social events come and go with the ease I never ever expected. Life is so much easier now.


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## TupacForever

WillComp said:


> @*
> 
> I've been through hell with the side effects of Nardil. I've fainted more than I can count, even in public, I've had the worst hypotensive episodes with white-outs almost daily for the 6 months. Seizure-like attacks. I've had terrible injuries/cuts from collapsing, I've had flu-like symptoms, anorgasmia, narcoleptic-like symptoms (out of nowhere my eyes start getting heavy and closing on me, and before I know it I'm nodding off, and yelling in my sleep, even at work).
> 
> I've thrown up, I've had the debilitating muscle soreness, couldn't walk for more than 100 yards, sometimes couldn't use shampoo because my arm was too sore reaching up and would become exhausted. I've even had 3 major hypotensive episodes where my heart would beat out of my chest followed by intense migraine headaches where I felt like I was dying. All of this was so incredibly tough, but I refused to come off Nardil. I would have rather died than go back to pre-Nardil anxiety, that's how unbearable my life was pre-Nardil.
> 
> Now after a year and a half, side effects haven't fully subsided, however their frequency is much less and more manageable. It seems like as time goes on, the intensity and frequency lowers so that when something does happen, I'm just grateful it's not a daily occurrence and only happens once a month or so now. I'm so grateful now that I didn't give up and side effects have become manageable. I hardly ever get dizzy any more, I'm hardly ever sore, and now I'm running 2-3 miles twice a week and playing competitive basketball (high intensity interval training) for about an hour 5 days a week.*


*

Thanks for your insight and story it does help me a lot. The worst side effects I've had each time on Nardil were the severe insomnia, daytime sleepiness, extremely low blood pressure/inability to lift my arms or walk and stuff also, and then in addition I had the inorgasmia as well. The longest I stayed on was 3 months because I couldn't see a reason the side effects would ever fade, and I thought that if they did then the medical benefit would too. I had a very very hard time each of the three times on Nardil because I like to lift weights, play basketball and football, and play guitar and I couldn't do any of these things at all because of the low blood pressure and severe weakness. Do you think this will go away for most others as it did for you as well? I was wondering the same for the inorgasmia if its supposed to fade over time. Do you still have a strong sex drive but just can't finish?

As bad as all those sides were, the severe insomnia was extremely painful (even with sleep meds I wouldn't really sleep and would wake up feeling horrible all day), and I couldn't make it past it each time. Did you have the severe insomnia and did it ever fade or did you find a way to deal with it?*


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## WillComp

TupacForever said:


> Thanks for your insight and story it does help me a lot. The worst side effects I've had each time on Nardil were the severe insomnia, daytime sleepiness, extremely low blood pressure/inability to lift my arms or walk and stuff also, and then in addition I had the inorgasmia as well. The longest I stayed on was 3 months because I couldn't see a reason the side effects would ever fade, and I thought that if they did then the medical benefit would too. I had a very very hard time each of the three times on Nardil because I like to lift weights, play basketball and football, and play guitar and I couldn't do any of these things at all because of the low blood pressure and severe weakness. Do you think this will go away for most others as it did for you as well? I was wondering the same for the inorgasmia if its supposed to fade over time. Do you still have a strong sex drive but just can't finish?
> 
> As bad as all those sides were, the severe insomnia was extremely painful (even with sleep meds I wouldn't really sleep and would wake up feeling horrible all day), and I couldn't make it past it each time. Did you have the severe insomnia and did it ever fade or did you find a way to deal with it?


I feel lucky because I never dealt with insomnia. I don't think I've ever had insomnia in my life. Wish I had suggestions for that but haven't done enough research. I've heard insomnia can be horrific.

I like to lift weights and play sports too, but that wasn't possible about a year ago. I remember trying to hike up my favorite mountain and had to take breaks every minute. It was one of the hardest physical and mental torture I've been through. After a year on Nardil, I noticed by muscle soreness was subsiding so I decided to start swimming, then running. I started off slow, then pushed myself further each time. Last night I ran the longest I've ever run, it felt great. Last week I tried hiking up that mountain, and it was the easiest hike I've had up that mountain. I didn't stop once, and I had this weird boundless energy. I can't wait to get a gym membership soon and start lifting weights again. I believe if my severe weakness/soreness went away, it'll go away for most people.

As for the inorgasmia, it's still 100% impossible to finish even though my libido is high as usual. I've always had a very strong sex drive, so this is extremely frustrating. I have no idea if this will fade in time; if it does I'll be in heaven. I try to stay consistent with the timing of taking each dose, but I dropped down below 45mg twice, and both times I was able to finish. Took way too long though. Two years ago I could finish in 5-10 minutes or however long I wanted, but when I dropped my dosage below 45, it took 2-3 hours both times. And lowering the dosage is not fun. I get that same sick panicky feeling all through my veins, then when I go back up to 75mg, I feel wonderful again. I'm almost certain I'll be a lifer with Nardil.


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## Tandorini

After increasing to 60 mg both the fatigue and the early mornings have been bothering me. I've been taking 30 in the morning, 30 in the evening, right before bed. Then it struck me, I could try doing 30+15+15, taking the middle one in the afternoon. I slept like a baby until 8 o'clock or something (as opposed to four or five). Hah. Simple as that.

I discussed it with my pdoc, who I now see on a weekly basis, due to the worsening of my depression. We agreed I'll try taking Nardil four times daily, instaed of two, to see if that can have an effect on side effects. I actually feel a little excited, trying something new. Maybe it'll help, I dunno. This is only my third day or so doing that, so I can't really tell yet. I've been at 60 mg for ten days. I actually feel an increase of hypotension, but it may be due to the increase, not related to dividing the doses. I'm not less fatigued either, but again, it's really too early to tell.

I used the archimedes brand (who is no longer archimedes, but kyoto something), which needs to be refrigerated. So it won't be easy following a four times daily regime, as I can't keep a few in my wallet or purse, I actually have to remember taking them with me when going out. I do keep some in a fridge at work though, so I'm gonna try my best to comply to the four times daily routine for a while, to be able to measure effect.

And yeah, I am not as cold in the evenings as I used to be after taking 30 mg at bed time. So as far as my nights go, splitting up the doses have been beneficial already. Fingers crossed!

I guess the mao-thingy is more inhibited now, I just ate two slices of bread with cheese on them, and felt my heart thumping real bad. Measured my BP, and see I had an increase of about 30 mmhg systolic.
​


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## Tandorini

Pdoc told me to increase to 75 mg today. So...here we go. 75 mg was when the side effects really struck bad last time. Falling down because of hypotension was at 75 mg. Can't wait!


Being at 60 mg has been better than I feared, though. I do notice some side effects, but I can still function.


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## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Pdoc told me to increase to 75 mg today. So...here we go. 75 mg was when the side effects really struck bad last time. Falling down because of hypotension was at 75 mg. Can't wait!
> 
> Being at 60 mg has been better than I feared, though. I do notice some side effects, but I can still function.


Good luck, Tandorini! I've been on 75 mg for a year and a half now, and most side effects have subsided. I used to fall down all the time. Hypotension was horrible. I've only lowered my dose once, I went down to 60 for a while because of the hypotension. When I finally went back up to 75 mg, I was expecting the hypotension to return but it wasn't nearly as bad this time around. It started subsiding and now it's become manageable.

Once in a while I feel the hypotension coming on and feel like I'm going to collapse, especially if I get out of my car too quickly after a long drive. Last week one of my coworkers pulled into the lot at the same time, she got out first, so without thinking I got out and started walking with her. Before getting to the door I felt a collapse coming on, starting shaking, she entered first and started walking up the stairs. I followed her and then bam - I collapsed on the stairs and banged my knee really bad. My coworker just assumed I tripped on the stairs and yelled out OMG! Still have a giant bump on my knee a week later. These types of incidents only happen occasionally now, and it's usually a result of standing up too fast.

Hope you feel better soon when increasing to 75. Everybody reacts differently but a lot of people, including me, can say that side effects eventually subside. You just have to be patient and let the sides pass.


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## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Good luck, Tandorini! I've been on 75 mg for a year and a half now, and most side effects have subsided. I used to fall down all the time. Hypotension was horrible. I've only lowered my dose once, I went down to 60 for a while because of the hypotension. When I finally went back up to 75 mg, I was expecting the hypotension to return but it wasn't nearly as bad this time around. It started subsiding and now it's become manageable.
> 
> Once in a while I feel the hypotension coming on and feel like I'm going to collapse, especially if I get out of my car too quickly after a long drive. Last week one of my coworkers pulled into the lot at the same time, she got out first, so without thinking I got out and started walking with her. Before getting to the door I felt a collapse coming on, starting shaking, she entered first and started walking up the stairs. I followed her and then bam - I collapsed on the stairs and banged my knee really bad. My coworker just assumed I tripped on the stairs and yelled out OMG! Still have a giant bump on my knee a week later. These types of incidents only happen occasionally now, and it's usually a result of standing up too fast.
> 
> Hope you feel better soon when increasing to 75. Everybody reacts differently but a lot of people, including me, can say that side effects eventually subside. You just have to be patient and let the sides pass.


Most of the side effects went away at 45 mg, at least. And they weren't terrible at 60 mg either, I think. At least the hypotension was gone. I'm mostly dreading the fatigue/muscle weakness/lactic acid. I do feel my body being more tense, I notice myself clenching my jaws a lot more. I believe increased tension in the muscles is what causes the feeling of lactic acid after a while.

Good to hear most of your side effects are gone, but sounds like you're still struggling a bit, haha. Well, hypotension is easily enough managed by taking precautions, I guess. Fatigue is more...well..debilitating, if that's the word. It impacts how I function, whether I can work, see my friends, everything.

Have you tried spreading the dose out during the day? I now take 2 in the morning, 1 at noon, on at 5 pm and one before bed.


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## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Most of the side effects went away at 45 mg, at least. And they weren't terrible at 60 mg either, I think. At least the hypotension was gone. I'm mostly dreading the fatigue/muscle weakness/lactic acid. I do feel my body being more tense, I notice myself clenching my jaws a lot more. I believe increased tension in the muscles is what causes the feeling of lactic acid after a while.
> 
> Good to hear most of your side effects are gone, but sounds like you're still struggling a bit, haha. Well, hypotension is easily enough managed by taking precautions, I guess. Fatigue is more...well..debilitating, if that's the word. It impacts how I function, whether I can work, see my friends, everything.
> 
> Have you tried spreading the dose out during the day? I now take 2 in the morning, 1 at noon, on at 5 pm and one before bed.


I get that dreaded fatigue/muscle weakness/lactic acid thing too. I thought I was getting back in shape, ran 4 miles the other day, getting back to lifting, and doing it all without much effort. Then yesterday, I felt that same muscle weakness. This was about a week after my last workout, since I was on vacation for a few days after my last workout. I couldn't even run 3 minutes without running out of breath and all my muscles too sore to go on. This was so depressing. Today I don't have the same feeling throughout my veins/muscles, so I'm gonna give it another go after work. I wish I knew exactly what it was from.

The debilitating fatigues comes and goes. One week I feel like I'm in a coma for the full week, then the next week I don't even need caffeine. So weird! This pattern has been going on for quite some time now. I haven't tried changing my dose and the times I spread it out. My doctor suggested 2 in the morning and 3 at night, which seems to work for me. A few hours after taking a dose is when I'm most susceptible to having a postural hypotension episode. So I take my highest dose (3 tablets) 1 hr before going to bed.


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## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> I get that dreaded fatigue/muscle weakness/lactic acid thing too. I thought I was getting back in shape, ran 4 miles the other day, getting back to lifting, and doing it all without much effort. Then yesterday, I felt that same muscle weakness. This was about a week after my last workout, since I was on vacation for a few days after my last workout. I couldn't even run 3 minutes without running out of breath and all my muscles too sore to go on. This was so depressing. Today I don't have the same feeling throughout my veins/muscles, so I'm gonna give it another go after work. I wish I knew exactly what it was from.
> 
> The debilitating fatigues comes and goes. One week I feel like I'm in a coma for the full week, then the next week I don't even need caffeine. So weird! This pattern has been going on for quite some time now. I haven't tried changing my dose and the times I spread it out. My doctor suggested 2 in the morning and 3 at night, which seems to work for me. A few hours after taking a dose is when I'm most susceptible to having a postural hypotension episode. So I take my highest dose (3 tablets) 1 hr before going to bed.


Nardil at night makes me wake up real early. Sucks about your bad workout, hopefully it was just a one time thing. Weird how the fatigue keeps coming and going as well.

My pdoc suggeseted 90 mg today. I refused. I've only been a week at 75 mg, I can't take anymore right now. I really wanna keep working, not getting called off sick. He suggested that too - signing me off work for a while. But no, I really wanna cling on to my "normal life", as I've been doing ever since Nardil really started working, and the side effects wore off.

I thought it would be hard keeping up with four doses a day, but it's actually not been much of a challenge. I keep an alarm on my fitbit charge, reminding me.


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## Tandorini

The lactic acid has hit me. Noticed the familiar feeling getting up this morning. Biking to work I kept a slow pace, didn't have much to give. It got a little easier throughout the day. But it's still there. My neck and jaw is tense. I feel a tingling sensation in my legs. I'd forgotten about that.


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## Tandorini

The hypotension reaches new heights (or lows, rather). Got up from bed to get a drink of water about an hour after taking the last dose of Nardil and my regular Seroquel. Felt my legs starting to shake, everything went black, but I managed to sit down before I fell. Just sat at the floor for a while, wondering where to go from there. Got up after a couple of minutes, managing to get my drink of water. Started heading back for bed, and everything went black again, and I sat down again. Eventually got back to bed and reached for my BP monitor, trying to get a reading, but it came up with ERROR, which means it's too low to be measured. Couldn't be bothered trying again, and went to sleep.


Lactic acid's bad today too.


And the craving for carbs is insane.


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## V1bzz

Sorry for not posting for ages. Where to start.
Well life was going ok. I worked my saturday shift, got home around lunch and had a couple of beers.
From that point on I cant remember anything until i woke up in hospital the following wednesday. On Monday I was reported missing to the police and found unconscious in my car haven driven 10 miles or so away from where i was staying to another town. Well i woke up in the hospital on wednesday confused because a minute ago it had been Saturday. I had a breakdown and was unconscious for 4 days or so and was in hospital about 8 days. In that time i had lost my job, i had also been kicked out and sleeping at my sisters house on the couch and in the car before that.

The british legion got involved to support me, they got me into temporary housing at a b&b and put on universal credits benefits. my psychiatrist was really worried about me so i got given a Pnurse in between my appointments with him. I had to see a psychologist and Pnurse yesterday.
Everything was sorta going ok at the temp accommodation until i tried to distance myself from all the drugs and drinking as i had started to drink too and just get stoned to take away the boredom of being in a place that holds no hope and is depressing.
My first pnurse appointment i was about 100 meters away opposite the hospital and had a black out, i woke up when my car, the only thing i love and have left impacted into another vehicle. I woke up steered away then fell unconscious again and woke up in hospital. The car is all smashed up at the front and ruined, my life is ruined, i have lost everything and have nothing now.

Well right now im homeless again and sleeping in the car and at my sisters when i can because 2 of the house mates turned against me, literally from being ok to two of them sending me death threats saying they were going to cut my throat in my sleep. get someone to burn me alive. get people to beat me up etc etc

Just waiting now for the council to re-house me somewhere. somewhere i can heal my brain from the breakdown and build myself back up again. I was hearing voices for the first day and a half after waking up in hospital, like 'hey Lee look at this' but nobody would be there speaking to me. anyway that passed but my brain is scrambled and a mess, pdoc says 6 months or so to heal from the breakdown so i cant work now. I also lose my licence on the 15th for drink driving. That will be me at rock bottom then.

Any way, thought i would update you all. I sure hope your lives are going better than mine!


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## Burnaby

Not sure what to say, I mean you have been through pretty pretty rough time and the recent events have added more to your troubles ... as bad as it seems and going which we all feel for you, you have made through the hardest part and thats surviving that accident. Imagine if you woke up in the hospital paralyzed from waste down or missing an limb , an eye etc, I mean can't help but to think if you went through that and survived perhaps some higher power has been watching for you and given you a second chance. Once a person hits rock rock buttom, they can only go up from there , can't help but to think this tough period will be behind you and before you know it you have worked yourself out of it, I wish you the best of luck and pray things get better from here on


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## Tandorini

Wow, you've really been going through some sh1t, v1bzz. I've been thinking about you, wondering why you went silent all of a sudden. Don't really know what to say...at least the health system and stuff are taking you seriously, and giving you some much needed support. I hope they can get you some housing where you can stay for a while, in peace.​


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## WillComp

@V1bzz- sorry to hear what you're going through! I can't imagine going through all that. But I know you're a trooper and will get through it. I think what you need is stableness in your life, and a job that's not stressful.

Well, you can now say you've easily got us all beat (all the Nardil warriors) when it comes to hardships on the Nardil journey. What do you think was the culprit that started this spiral? If you can figure that out and avoid doing that again, you can only rise up from this hell.

In a perfect world, you could come to the U.S. and have one of your friends here on this forum take you in. Hey, If I had more space in my condo and you lived closer, I'd take you in. I understand what debilitating SA is like and how it can ruin your life, so I wouldnt care what you did or judge you.. And of course I wouldn't be a jerk like those *****holez there. Hey, life is always greener on the other side. You just need a stable environment now! And things will get better.


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## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @V1bzz- sorry to hear what you're going through! I can't imagine going through all that. But I know you're a trooper and will get through it. I think what you need is stableness in your life


That's exactly what i need. I have had my car taken away now so thats my home gone. I will be setting up a tent today and sleeping there and at my sisters a couple of times a week. hey it's not like i havent camped before, will prob enjoy. i think i have already found the spot, close to sisters house so i can still get her wifi haha.

I just stayed up all night worrying about where to live. hopefully the council sort me out somewhere solid today.

Mate if i had the money i would come sleep rough there, sure the weathers gotta be better lol


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## V1bzz

Burnaby said:


> Not sure what to say, I mean you have been through pretty pretty rough time and the recent events have added more to your troubles ... as bad as it seems and going which we all feel for you, you have made through the hardest part and thats surviving that accident. Imagine if you woke up in the hospital paralyzed from waste down or missing an limb , an eye etc, I mean can't help but to think if you went through that and survived perhaps some higher power has been watching for you and given you a second chance. Once a person hits rock rock buttom, they can only go up from there , can't help but to think this tough period will be behind you and before you know it you have worked yourself out of it, I wish you the best of luck and pray things get better from here on


Really hope so buddy, gotta go to court yet and lose my licence and try and find a place to live but i also believe i have to lose absolutely everything, hit rock bottom and build back up again.
Life is just very hard right now and its a struggle but i'll be ok at some point.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Wow, you've really been going through some sh1t, v1bzz. I've been thinking about you, wondering why you went silent all of a sudden. Don't really know what to say...at least the health system and stuff are taking you seriously, and giving you some much needed support. I hope they can get you some housing where you can stay for a while, in peace.​


Really hope so too


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## Tandorini

Just can't do 75 mg. I am so fatigued, I wake up to early, the lactic acid is there all the time, my blood pressure varies from hypo to hyper, my body jerks when I try sleeping, I have cravings for carbs, my legs feel like they've got ants in them, and I have some slight urinary hesitation. 



I am way better than I was at 45 mg. Hopefully 60 mg will be enough for now. My pdoc's out of town, so I will have to make the decision for myself.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Just can't do 75 mg. I am so fatigued, I wake up to early, the lactic acid is there all the time, my blood pressure varies from hypo to hyper, my body jerks when I try sleeping, I have cravings for carbs, my legs feel like they've got ants in them, and I have some slight urinary hesitation.
> 
> I am way better than I was at 45 mg. Hopefully 60 mg will be enough for now. My pdoc's out of town, so I will have to make the decision for myself.


Yeah i'm also at 75mg now, all 5 taken together in the morning. My heart pounds a bit when it first kicks in but other than that no side effects that i can think of right now, I also take clonazepam 0.5, 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon about 4 days a week. 
I take a week off it once a month or so to prevent addiction. 
It really helps keep my anxieties controlled at a decent level, maybe with nardil i'm hitting a 6 or 7 :smile2:

My life didnt get better since the last time i posted, I have been living on the streets in a sleeping bag.
I have finally managed to get a flat but not sure when i am able to move in. Hopefully a week or less and I can start rebuilding my life again.

I think I am going to come off nardil for a bit to let my body have a rest from it. Seems to be a little bit more effective every time I restart it again.

I tried to over dose on it a couple of weeks ago, took 80 x 15mg and nada, nothing. At the time I had a great hope that nardil at that dose would kill me but it literally had less affect than over dosing on other things like pregab or whatever.

I'm going to see if I can try the tricyclic line of medications as that is something I have never tried. My miracle could be in there somewhere.
I will ask to go up to 1mg clonny twice a day and then do a tricyclic.


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## Tandorini

Tandorini said:


> Just can't do 75 mg. I am so fatigued, I wake up to early, the lactic acid is there all the time, my blood pressure varies from hypo to hyper, my body jerks when I try sleeping, I have cravings for carbs, my legs feel like they've got ants in them, and I have some slight urinary hesitation.
> 
> I am way better than I was at 45 mg. Hopefully 60 mg will be enough for now. My pdoc's out of town, so I will have to make the decision for myself.


Turns out 60 mg wasn't enough. Am extremely depressed right now, worse than in a long time. Might be partly a rebound reaction, but I dunno. Gone back up to 75 mg.


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## WillComp

Tandorini said:


> Turns out 60 mg wasn't enough. Am extremely depressed right now, worse than in a long time. Might be partly a rebound reaction, but I dunno. Gone back up to 75 mg.


How is 75 working for you? I've been on 75 for a long time, maybe over a year.

I'm also on clonazepam as needed, and take 3-5 per week. 2 hrs after taking clonazepam is when I feel the best. And that happens to be right now. A few minutes ago I wanted to hide in my office, now I want to go out there and chat. It's so weird. Within just a few minutes, it finally kicked in and I feel like a different person. I went from depressed, anxious, hopeless (all situational and anticipatory) to feeling a huge sense of relief. This feeling is what keeps me alive.

Hope everyone else is doing better as well. I think for people with SA, this is the hardest time of the year. If we can get past Christmas without a mental breakdown, it's clear skies from there to spring.

Lastly, we need to all post more.. me included. I've been so busy at work, and when I get home I feel like crashing. Every night I fall asleep with my phone in hand, and end up waking up with my phone somewhere under me. Wish I had more energy to post more. It's getting cold and my motivation for working out and exercise has gone down significantly. I'm beginning to turn into a couch potato vegetable, and that's definitely not helping with my energy level. Maybe when I get a membership to a gym I'll have more motivation and will get back to feeling better.

Now off to freak some of my coworkers out. Yesterday was a non-klonopin day and hid away, so when I go chat with them now with a relaxed confident demeanor, they'll look at me like I'm high again. Don't care, I really feel like chatting. I'll let you know how it goes in just a bit.


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## WillComp

Ok, I'm back.. 


Said good morning by name to 3 people and sat in someone's office to chat for 15 minutes or so. I was so relaxed and chatty. Then walked to someone else's office and chatted for about a minute. I wanted to chat with this other guy but it may have looked weird that I was making the rounds and obviously on some medication. I feel bad that I didn't talk to more people, just because I'm such in a social chatty mood. This is all due to the combination of clonazepam and Nardil. Best combination I could ever ask for. 


The last thing I want to do now is work. In 90 minutes from now, I'm heading over to the church during lunch for early voting. Church's and voting polls freak me out, so hopefully I'll still be this confident. :boogie 


Next week if we see a blue wave and Trump goes on a whining rant in his 3am tweet, I'll be ecstatic! :teeth


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## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> How is 75 working for you? I've been on 75 for a long time, maybe over a year.
> 
> I'm also on clonazepam as needed, and take 3-5 per week. 2 hrs after taking clonazepam is when I feel the best. And that happens to be right now. A few minutes ago I wanted to hide in my office, now I want to go out there and chat. It's so weird. Within just a few minutes, it finally kicked in and I feel like a different person. I went from depressed, anxious, hopeless (all situational and anticipatory) to feeling a huge sense of relief. This feeling is what keeps me alive.
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing better as well. I think for people with SA, this is the hardest time of the year. If we can get past Christmas without a mental breakdown, it's clear skies from there to spring.
> 
> Lastly, we need to all post more.. me included. I've been so busy at work, and when I get home I feel like crashing. Every night I fall asleep with my phone in hand, and end up waking up with my phone somewhere under me. Wish I had more energy to post more. It's getting cold and my motivation for working out and exercise has gone down significantly. I'm beginning to turn into a couch potato vegetable, and that's definitely not helping with my energy level. Maybe when I get a membership to a gym I'll have more motivation and will get back to feeling better.
> 
> Now off to freak some of my coworkers out. Yesterday was a non-klonopin day and hid away, so when I go chat with them now with a relaxed confident demeanor, they'll look at me like I'm high again. Don't care, I really feel like chatting. I'll let you know how it goes in just a bit.


Good to hear it helps your SA.

Clonazepam is rarely used in Norway. They are very restrictive on benzos here. Mostly Oxazepam or maybe some Diazepam. And zolpidem and zopiclone for sleep.

I don't struggle with SA. It's depression that's my problem.

Was at the the pdoc today. We discussed me being an inpatient for a while. I couldn't really decide. He called the ward, but turns out they were full, and the only place they could offer was at another site, where I've been before and didn't like it. So I declined. Seing the pdoc tomorrow morning again.

I have a trip abroad planned for next week. Don't really wanna be commited, as they might not let me out in time for it. The pdoc wants me to cancel the trip I think, but I refuse.

He's talking about ECT. I still wanna try Nardil. Maybe increase the Seroquel dosage a bit as well. Am at 200 mg (instant release) now. He wasn't thrilled about me going down to 60 mg without telling him, and then increasing again when I had somewhat of a breakdown last week. Just couldn't stop crying. But at least I told him now.


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## jtd1974

WillComp said:


> Within just a few minutes, it finally kicked in and I feel like a different person. I went from depressed, anxious, hopeless (all situational and anticipatory) to feeling a huge sense of relief.


WillComp, so do you find that Nardil alone isn't enough to keep a lid on your anxiety? I too have been taking clonazepam, originally for sleep but I ended up taking it during the day as well. I don't have the self-control to mess with stuff like benzos. Do you take clonazepam every day? I planned to have a three-day rest from it each week, but found those days I was irritable and prone to losing my temper very easily. The other day at work I started feeling suicidal, with no trigger I could put my finger on. A bit of googling tells me that clonazepam can spark suicidal thoughts in some people. I've stopped taking it for now. I'll keep it for one-off stressful events. Instead I'm giving pregabalin a go with Nardil. It's too early to say if it's helping yet.

Tandorini, I was in a similar position to you. My psychiatrist kept suggesting the idea of ECT. I'd been through so many meds without success that I think he didn't know what to try next. At my continued suggestion he agreed to let me try Nardil and it's working pretty well for me. He told me that the way psychiatrists work with depressed patients these days, they use what he called a treatment algorithm. It begins with the usual SSRIs/SNRIs and the like, as you would expect. The interesting thing though is that he said MAOIs are way down the bottom, below ECT and meds like lithium. I'm in Australia and don't know if they work in a similar way in Norway. But I would definitely suggest for you to keep saying you want to try Nardil. Otherwise it might not be considered as an option.

It's worth trying. If Nardil doesn't work, you just stop taking it and move on to the next treatment, whether that be ECT or a different med. To be honest, the possibility of permanent damage and memory loss has always put me off ECT. That and the fact that any benefits seem to wear off, meaning continued treatment is needed, which apparently increases the risk of permanent damage.


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## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Ok, I'm back..
> 
> Said good morning by name to 3 people and sat in someone's office to chat for 15 minutes or so. I was so relaxed and chatty. Then walked to someone else's office and chatted for about a minute. I wanted to chat with this other guy but it may have looked weird that I was making the rounds and obviously on some medication. I feel bad that I didn't talk to more people, just because I'm such in a social chatty mood. This is all due to the combination of clonazepam and Nardil. Best combination I could ever ask for.
> 
> The last thing I want to do now is work. In 90 minutes from now, I'm heading over to the church during lunch for early voting. Church's and voting polls freak me out, so hopefully I'll still be this confident. :boogie
> 
> Next week if we see a blue wave and Trump goes on a whining rant in his 3am tweet, I'll be ecstatic! :teeth


How much clonazzy are you on. I'm supposed to be on 0.5mg twice a day but my gp only gives me enough for 0.5 once a day, the pricks just do what they want. I still take what the psychiatrist said though so only have enough to cover 3 days but find im usually ok for the other few days as they hit on the weekend.

I have a court trial today with no solicitor, am having panic and anxiety attacks like i did before Nardil. I was the same yesterday but took 1mg clonazzy and it settled me right down.
Today I am taking 1mg this morning and then another 1mg an hour before court starts.

Wish me luck guys, getting this sh1t done will be a big step towards me getting better. My hands are shaking soooo bad right now!

I managed to get a new flat which will get me off the streets, i'm just waiting to move in. I'm hoping next week.

@jtd1974 Be careful on pregab, it's a dangerous drug. I found the best dose for me was at 50mg a day. When I was higher than that up to 400mg it turned me into an uncaring piece of sh1t but still with anxiety, I did feel more capable of holding a conversation though.

IMO the bad things far out weigh the benefits and its a flucker to get off of, gotta do it slowly over months or it gives you a killer headache.

I think 90mg would possibly be the right dose for me of nardil. Ive been on 75mg for about a month or more, 75mg is defo better than 60mg for consistency.


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## Tandorini

jtd1974 said:


> Tandorini, I was in a similar position to you. My psychiatrist kept suggesting the idea of ECT. I'd been through so many meds without success that I think he didn't know what to try next. At my continued suggestion he agreed to let me try Nardil and it's working pretty well for me. He told me that the way psychiatrists work with depressed patients these days, they use what he called a treatment algorithm. It begins with the usual SSRIs/SNRIs and the like, as you would expect. The interesting thing though is that he said MAOIs are way down the bottom, below ECT and meds like lithium. I'm in Australia and don't know if they work in a similar way in Norway. But I would definitely suggest for you to keep saying you want to try Nardil. Otherwise it might not be considered as an option.
> 
> It's worth trying. If Nardil doesn't work, you just stop taking it and move on to the next treatment, whether that be ECT or a different med. To be honest, the possibility of permanent damage and memory loss has always put me off ECT. That and the fact that any benefits seem to wear off, meaning continued treatment is needed, which apparently increases the risk of permanent damage.


I know I said "I still wanna try Nardil", but I guess better English would be "I wanna keep on trying Nardil". I've been using Nardil for a year and a half now. It's the dosage (benefits vs. side effects) that's the main problem.

May have stopped working for me too, I don't know. I was fine at 45 mg earlier this year. Now I'm doing really bad at both 60 and 75 mg.

Have a trip abroad planned for next week, my pdoc wants me to cancel. Waiting for him to call me back, he's discussing with some collegaues about having me admitted. Dunno what I really feel about that. It may be a nice break from all the disturbing thoughts, but I'm really worried they will make me cancel the trip, which is important not just to me, but it affects other people if I don't go.


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## V1bzz

I have read a lot of studies over the last couple of days saying in trials Amitriptyline as a sole treatment was pretty much the same as phenelzine as a sole treatment....but abit better for depression where as nardil was a bit better for anxiety. too close to call it though.
@Tandorini have you tried Amitriptyline at all, its a tricyclic antidepressant. It sounds to me it would be more suitable for you than phenelzone.

_Phenelzine and amitriptyline: effects on symptoms of neurotic depression.
Rowan PR, Paykel ES, Parker RR.
Abstract
A double-blind controlled trial of phenelzine, amitriptyline and placebo was carried out in out-patients suffering from depression or mixed anxiety and depression. After six weeks treatment both active drugs were clearly superior to placebo and of similar efficacy; therapeutic effects started to appear at two weeks. Comparisons on symptom ratings showed that both drugs acted as true antidepressants, producing their greatest effects on ratings of depressive mood and thought content. There were additional weak differences, phenelzine producing more improvement on anxiety ratings, while amitriptyline gave greater effects on depressive impairment of work and interests and anergia. Analyses showed little evidence of clinical subgroups responding preferentially to either drug. The findings indicate that MAO inhibitors and tricyclic antidepressants have more closely similar clinical effects than has been thought and that either may be a useful treatment for these patients who are often considered to respond poorly to antidepressant drug treatment._

https://www.google.co.uk/search?ei=l-faW53XB4TSkgWE7p-wCg&q=Amitriptyline+versus+phenelzine&oq=Amitriptyline+versus+phenelzine&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.27179.37483.0.38025.19.19.0.0.0.0.106.1470.18j1.19.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.19.1470...0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i20i263k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1.0.bDXWOEwETYg


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## V1bzz

I had to go to court for a trial against me yesterday. didn't have a solicitor and defended myself. I took 2 clonazzy in the morning and 3 an hour before the trial and went in and smashed it lol. I easily beat the prosecutor LOL!!
He was starting all kinds of nasty **** because he knew i had him beat and he could see the 3 judges were in my corner early on.

When asked if i wanted to question the prosecutor the judges said Mr Falconer, you can, but we have already made our decision.

they went out and they came in and said the court falls in favor with Mr Falconer. Mr Falconer you can now go BOOM!!

I made the police witness look like a idiot and the prosecutor an even bigger idiot....i'm pretty sure they never wishes they went to court yesterday. I'm not even a solicitor ffs :boogie:grin2::nerd:>


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## Tandorini

Awesome vb1zz, well done. 

Never been considering amtryptiline (or what you called it.) But anyway, my pdoc had me commited, so I'm at a closed ward now, meeting up with new doctors. Seems like they're thinking ect, and quite soon. They are considering letting me go on my trip abroad first tho, planning to have me come back here and undergo the treatment. But nothing's decided yet, they are just discussing.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Awesome vb1zz, well done.
> 
> Never been considering amtryptiline (or what you called it.) But anyway, my pdoc had me commited, so I'm at a closed ward now, meeting up with new doctors. Seems like they're thinking ect, and quite soon. They are considering letting me go on my trip abroad first tho, planning to have me come back here and undergo the treatment. But nothing's decided yet, they are just discussing.


I would mention it to them. it sounds like a very awesome drug, less dangerous and less side effects but same results in trial but a little better than phenelzine for depression


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## Tandorini

Been let out from the hospital. Turns out they don't wanna do general anaestetics while on Nardil. So I am going completely off Nardil, waiting two weeks and only then can I have ECT. Can't say looking forward to being totally off meds, while already feeling like crap. Am weaning off it, gone from 75 to 60 mg for a start.


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## WillComp

@*V1bzz* - nice job at court! Sounds like you nailed it! :grin2: I've noticed that when effective meds kick in, like clonazzy, not only does it make you a different person and make you relaxed and confident, it makes you think more clearly too. At least it does for me. I'm sure that felt pretty amazing, like similar to those 3 amazing days you experienced on Nardil.

I'm not sure if Nardil has stopped working for me. It's definitely not as effective lately. Yesterday I had the darkest day of anxiety and anticipatory anxiety I can ever remember. I had to close my office door and then began having anxiety and actual panic attacks for the rest of the day. Then the disturbing thoughts got more disturbing to the point I started bawling my eyes out for over an hour. I felt a bit better after that, like I had been holding all this in and I needed to let all my emotions out.

This could've been due to not taking a clonazzy since Friday morning (so Monday was the 3rd straight day w/out one). However I think the sole culprit might have been taking a B-12 on Sunday. That was the first B-12 I've taken in over a year, and although it helped me reach the big O 2 hours later on Sunday, I felt that same anxiety blood taking over my veins.

So, I guess: palpable anxiety = the big O; zero anxiety due to Nardil = the dreaded 0. :teeth It's taken 48 hours for B-12 to get out of my system and now I'm feeling a lot better. I also took one .05mg tablet of clonazzy 3 hours ago, and now I feel like a different person, relaxed with a pleasant outlook on the future. Yesterday at this time I was convinced I had to jump off the nearby tall parking garage, and was thinking about every person who knows me and how they'd react to the news. I was scared I wouldn't be able to stop myself.

I almost called the number last night but figured once you go public with it, you're likely to be locked up in an impatient hospital and seen as a dangerous psychotic person for the rest of your life. And that ECT stuff? I don't know much about it, but seems incredibly harsh. Do they treat PTSD patients like this? For some reason I highly doubt it.

Sucks that they do that to you. So many lives could be saved if they didn't lock you up and treat you like the worst person in the world. At least now I feel fine. In reality, I probably won't ever go through with it (code for don't come after me, doctors.. LOL) . I still have a bit of anticipatory anxiety, thinking how hellish this upcoming trip will be flying to a week-long business conference with 60 colleagues. I don't understand how Nardil works. It doesn't seem to do anything to relieve anticipatory anxiety, however when the anxiety-provoking event arrives I haven't been as bad as before Nardil. This drug is so confusing.


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## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> @*V1bzz* - nice job at court! Sounds like you nailed it! :grin2: I've noticed that when effective meds kick in, like clonazzy, not only does it make you a different person and make you relaxed and confident, it makes you think more clearly too. At least it does for me. I'm sure that felt pretty amazing, like similar to those 3 amazing days you experienced on Nardil.
> 
> I'm not sure if Nardil has stopped working for me. It's definitely not as effective lately. Yesterday I had the darkest day of anxiety and anticipatory anxiety I can ever remember. I had to close my office door and then began having anxiety and actual panic attacks for the rest of the day. Then the disturbing thoughts got more disturbing to the point I started bawling my eyes out for over an hour. I felt a bit better after that, like I had been holding all this in and I needed to let all my emotions out.
> 
> This could've been due to not taking a clonazzy since Friday morning (so Monday was the 3rd straight day w/out one). However I think the sole culprit might have been taking a B-12 on Sunday. That was the first B-12 I've taken in over a year, and although it helped me reach the big O 2 hours later on Sunday, I felt that same anxiety blood taking over my veins.
> 
> So, I guess: palpable anxiety = the big O; zero anxiety due to Nardil = the dreaded 0. :teeth It's taken 48 hours for B-12 to get out of my system and now I'm feeling a lot better. I also took one .05mg tablet of clonazzy 3 hours ago, and now I feel like a different person, relaxed with a pleasant outlook on the future. Yesterday at this time I was convinced I had to jump off the nearby tall parking garage, and was thinking about every person who knows me and how they'd react to the news. I was scared I wouldn't be able to stop myself.
> 
> I almost called the number last night but figured once you go public with it, you're likely to be locked up in an impatient hospital and seen as a dangerous psychotic person for the rest of your life. And that ECT stuff? I don't know much about it, but seems incredibly harsh. Do they treat PTSD patients like this? For some reason I highly doubt it.
> 
> Sucks that they do that to you. So many lives could be saved if they didn't lock you up and treat you like the worst person in the world. At least now I feel fine. In reality, I probably won't ever go through with it (code for don't come after me, doctors.. LOL) . I still have a bit of anticipatory anxiety, thinking how hellish this upcoming trip will be flying to a week-long business conference with 60 colleagues. I don't understand how Nardil works. It doesn't seem to do anything to relieve anticipatory anxiety, however when the anxiety-provoking event arrives I haven't been as bad as before Nardil. This drug is so confusing.


Mate i have been the same lately but today was really really bad. I wondered if nardil had stopped working as my anxiety was really really high, I was on the verge of having panic and anxiety attacks just getting on the bus and having a meeting with someone i've seen several times.

Since the day before court is the first time ive had those horrible attacks while on nardil. I had also not taken clonazzy for a week today as needed my last ones for court the week before.

Now wondering if the clonazzy is effecting the nardil in a negative way now or i have become addicted? now you have said the same it's now not just me.

I honestly dont think i am addicted to clonazzy, i take clonazzy only for 3/4 days a week as my doctors is continuing to give me the wrong prescribed dose, i swear they do it to fluck me over. hate gp's so god damned much!

i'm supposed to be on 0.5 twice a day not 0.5 once a day.
So i take two a day as im supposed to and only have enough for 3 days.

worried now about clonazzy nardil not being good for each other.

I also dont feel great mate on the two, just calms me down abit. doesnt make me happy or chatty or socialable or anything.
I'm still waiting for nardil to kick in properly though, it will happen, i'm not giving up!!!!!


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## Tandorini

ECT is the only option I haven't tried, I think i wanna try. Dunno yet. My depression is getting worse. I had a suicide attempt a year and a half ago. Was in the hospital for a few weeks after that, but that's when they started me up on nardil, and I've been an outpatient ever since. Except for a few days last week, that is. Feels like I'm going down that path again. I was finally in a tolerable place, working full-time, being sociable. All i got was a few months, maybe a year, of that. Feels like it wasn't worth the struggle.


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## jtd1974

After taking clonazepam daily along with my nardil for a couple of weeks I started feeling suicidal. I was only taking like a quarter of a 0.5mg clonazzy during the day and the same before bed, so 0.25mg each day. I think for some people this could be a bad combo. After ditching the clonazzy and instead taking 75mg pregabalin twice daily, morning and night, I've been feeling heaps better, and sleeping ok too.


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## V1bzz

got pdoc tomorrow, will give update after. first time i've seen him since the breakdown.
im telling him i want 90mg phenelzine or to try imipramine going to full dose but also with both I want to take 2-3mg a day of clonazzy as 2.4mg a day is actually the recommended starting dose for social phobia. I also read that anything below 600mg pregabalin is the only dose that works for social phobia, anything less than that is pointless.

I've been doing a lot of studying cos i'm tired of these so called god damned experts giving me wrong pointless doses of things 

It's like the GP's don't listen to the Psychiatrists and the Psychiatrists don't listen to the Pharmacologists and it really flucking pisses me off at every level!!


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## V1bzz

Of course, he didn't listen. He got out his stupid little book. wouldnt let me try imiramine but put me officially up to 75mg nardil so i'll take 90mg now fluck em.
He also forced me to change the 7 days of meds he wanted to give me on his hand written rx. I just added a 1 before the 7. i should get a full month tuesday so will do the old trick of ive lost my meds so i have an extra amount to do the proper doses for socail phobia, 90mg nardil combined with a minimum of 2.4mg clonazepam.

I was really looking forward to trying imipramine as it's supposed to give you a lot of confidence and is more activating than nardil but just as effective.

*******s just never listen. i'm going to try and change pdoc now. see if i can get a military one as i've heard they dont **** about and act like pussies with meds. i swear these pdocs dont bother reading what the pharmacologists say.


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## V1bzz

Damn @Tandorini only just seen your having ECT.....Have you had it yet? how do you feel? :O


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Damn @*Tandorini* only just seen your having ECT.....Have you had it yet? how do you feel? :O


Nah, its not decided yet. And they refuse giving me general anaesthetics as long as I'm on Nardil. So I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Giving up Nardil (getting worse while tapering off it and the two weeks completely off it), to try ECT, which I don't even know if I wanna try, or just continue hoping Nardil will have an effect?

I'm at 60 mg now, not feeling it work wonders, yet feeling quite fatigued. Better than at 75 mg, but still. Seing the pdoc again tomorrow, he's got me on weekly appointments now. Will be discussing plan of treatment with him.

I am not as bad as I when I got admitted to the inpatient ward a few weeks ago, I have become a little better. That makes me wonder if I really need ECT. I mean - if I could have gotten it then and there I might have taken it. But now with the waiting period and all, I have no idea what to do. I get so frustrated, not really having a plan to get well.

They keep talking about how medication might not be the right approach, or at least not the only one. Maybe I need more therapy instead. Cognitive, psychodynamic, I have no idea.

Maybe I can get off Nardil. It's just causing a lot of pain for me. Well, that's not true. It's the only thing that has worked. But still. I am not sure if it's worth it anymore.


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## V1bzz

Yeah they are giving me that sh1t too about maybe meds not being the right approach bla bla bla. joke is i cant do the other things without meds cos i won't be able to even make it to what ever they want me to try.

Tandorini, Imipramine is just as effective as phenelzine but a little bit better for depression where as phenelzine is for anxiety.

I wanted to give it a try but they wouldn't let me, maybe you could give it a try. they say you have to come off nardil for two weeks first but pharmacologists say different and to taper.

I can't believe now I'm actually as p1ssed off at psychiatrists as i was gp's for all that time. I'm starting to realise they are all a clueless bunch of retards who can only read a stupid little book to tell them the answers instead of hard work and the studying of pharmacology. ****5 excuse my french. i feel like i just hate them all because they won't flucking listen, even when i show them proof!!!!!!!


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## V1bzz

Oh i'm taking 90mg nardil now, you know why?....because i flucking feel like it.

I've also noticed a difference in effectiveness when i crunch them up then swallow it.

I've also upped my clonazepam to 2mg, you know why?... because i flucking feel like it!!

for social phobia the base dose is 2.4mg, so i try not to take it everyday. for example i only took 0.5mg today.

when i have to go out though i will be doing 2mg in one go!

I need to find another psychiatrist now that doesnt look at a book for his answers, may be you need to do the same?


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Oh i'm taking 90mg nardil now, you know why?....because i flucking feel like it.
> 
> I've also noticed a difference in effectiveness when i crunch them up then swallow it.
> 
> I've also upped my clonazepam to 2mg, you know why?... because i flucking feel like it!!
> 
> for social phobia the base dose is 2.4mg, so i try not to take it everyday. for example i only took 0.5mg today.
> 
> when i have to go out though i will be doing 2mg in one go!
> 
> I need to find another psychiatrist now that doesnt look at a book for his answers, may be you need to do the same?


I've been with so many pdocs now, I am lucky to have found one that listens to me, who gives me frequent appointments if I need so. He is clueless about Nardil (today actually suggesting I just go cold turkey off of 60 mg), but maybe he knows about other stuff. He seems to genuinly care, and really listens to what I want to do. Anyway, I think we may be headed for ECT, but we can only make that descision after being off of Nardil and see how I am then. Christmas is coming up too, I have plans with some family I don't want to be involved in my psychiatric health, so it would be best to put it off till after Christmas, I suppose.


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## V1bzz

I have learnt something about pregabalin. I used to be on 300mg a day and honestly never felt a positive change the whole time i was on it. Actually it kinda turned me into an @sshole

While I was on it I could never understand why people always wanted one and offer a £1 for a 100mg capsule of pregab. I just thought they were crazy, cos i honestly didnt get no recreational feelings on it.

Well I ended up stopping, takes a while to get off pregab, gotta be a slow withdrawal.

So even though i was off it i was still getting prescribed it for some reason. I pretty much always just gave it back to the chemist.

One day I thought I would test taking higher dosages while its not in my system to see why thise idiots kept wanting to buy it off me.

So first time I took 600 mg and was totally flucked, like i was drunk, couldnt walk straight, nearl falling down the stairs, totally off my head LOL
I honestly couldnt believe it because i got nothing like this while taking it daily. it was a positive buzz.

So anyway, to cut a long story short. I've been testing dosages. I've found that 300 mg, maybe 250 mg really helps my social phobia, makes me feel more confident and social, makes me feel mildly drunk.
y
I would just like to add I am not a Doctor but as a long term sufferer of mental health I would say to any pregabalin users....if you are on it and not feeling anything positive like me and just feeling like a zombie and a buthole, slowly come off of it. Get that sh11t out of your system and them start experimenting with dosages and find the right dose for you to take when you have to do something social or stressful. taking it recreationaly seems to be 100% more effective treatment for me.

As I said, i am not a useless clueless doctor or psychiatrist. I'm just a long term sufferer of tis bull****e and have found an effective use for pregabalin once it is fully out of your system.

anyone here on it? how does it make you feel?


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## jtd1974

I'm on 150mg daily, 75mg morning and night, like you along with 90mg nardil. It definitely gives me more daytime relief from anxiety than nardil alone and the evening dose seems to help me sleep. It's hard to put my finger on what exactly it does for me during the day, but I feel more chilled in general, if sometimes in a slightly "out of it" way (usually about an hour or so after the morning dose) ... not zombiefied like an SSRI would do, more of an overall feeling of slight sedation and calmness.


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## GlasgowGuy

Am on 450mg of Pregabalin a day take it all at night helps me sleep also on 60mg of Nardil combination for social anxiety seems to be working great.


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## V1bzz

Has anyone said to you that you are changing, like personality wise and not in a good way? people said it to me all the time but obviously to myself i felt like the normal me. it wasn't until i came off a could see how much of a cnut it made me. strange how it effects people differently.

I only took 200 tonight and feel fubared!!!


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## GlasgowGuy

Nobody has commented that am changing been on Pregabalin now for about 2 years and feel totally like myself. Certain someone would have said if my personality was changing for the worse.


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## Tandorini

Got admitted to an inpatient ward again. Doctors seem reluctant to do much about my meds. No-one seems to be able to make up their mind regarding ECT. Was waiting for my night meds, hoping for a good sleep. Then they came in telling me to hold on for a bit, they are moving me to another hospital. It's fukcing 9 pm.


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## V1bzz

*Conversation I just had*

[15:10, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: mate im scared to say thia cos i dont want to jinx it but i usually get about 40-50% relief from phenelzine
[15:11, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: today I felt it kick in after about an hour, its very rare i feel any different and dont feel it kick in or sometimes i just feel it in my chest but today is different
[15:12, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: i would say its hitting about 70% today and i feel good
[15:12, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: just relaxed and more positive, just more normal
[15:12, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: this is very very very very very good ****ing news
[15:13, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: pray for me, give positive affirmations or what ever you believe in that this stays like this or gets even better
[15:13, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: i've been waiting a long long time!
[15:14, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: last time when it kicked in for those 3 days i didnt even realize until i noticed i was dancing round my room to some tunes and was thinking like, right im going to join a gym, get a job with lots of fit women
[15:14, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: etc etc
[15:14, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: felt like a normal person and it was heaven
[15:15, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: dude i need this to continue how i am today
[15:15, 12/2/2018] Hmmm: maybe the oats are helping giving me certain vits, mins i need

Guys, give me good thoughts that this continues, i've been waiting a long time!!


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Got admitted to an inpatient ward again. Doctors seem reluctant to do much about my meds. No-one seems to be able to make up their mind regarding ECT. Was waiting for my night meds, hoping for a good sleep. Then they came in telling me to hold on for a bit, they are moving me to another hospital. It's fukcing 9 pm.


Have you mentioned getting clonazepam or something, about 2.5 a day should do and then you can do two weeks no nardil, you prob wont even feel any withdraw for a week, get the ect crap done and then straight away go back onto the nardil. it only takes a few days to start working again.

hospitals are crazy for giving meds, when i was in hospital after the breakdown they didnt give me any of my meds until the very last day i was there. that was 8 days no meds, i was gioing mad at them, telling them i was going to smash up the bed locker which had them in but was locked. I just think they are all idiots these doctors, gp's etc.

is the problem because you have to be sedated? isnt that why they have a person there sitting making sure you are properly sedated. surely they try and if the sedation doesnt work you dont do it and with draw from nardil. seems pretty simple to me.

I'm starting to kind of want ect too now. i know its not just one time and you have to get it done a few times but it certainly works i believe.

I know you have probably already read a lot about it but read this - https://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/electroconvulsive-therapy#1


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Have you mentioned getting clonazepam or something, about 2.5 a day should do and then you can do two weeks no nardil, you prob wont even feel any withdraw for a week, get the ect crap done and then straight away go back onto the nardil. it only takes a few days to start working again.
> 
> hospitals are crazy for giving meds, when i was in hospital after the breakdown they didnt give me any of my meds until the very last day i was there. that was 8 days no meds, i was gioing mad at them, telling them i was going to smash up the bed locker which had them in but was locked. I just think they are all idiots these doctors, gp's etc.
> 
> is the problem because you have to be sedated? isnt that why they have a person there sitting making sure you are properly sedated. surely they try and if the sedation doesnt work you dont do it and with draw from nardil. seems pretty simple to me.
> 
> I'm starting to kind of want ect too now. i know its not just one time and you have to get it done a few times but it certainly works i believe.
> 
> I know you have probably already read a lot about it but read this - https://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/electroconvulsive-therapy#1


Back home again. At nearly 11 pm that night I was told they weren't moving me after all. I have no idea what happened.

The problem with ECT and Nardil is controlling the blood pressure, I believe. Because while sedated your blood pressure can act up (with all patients), but trying to correct it when a patient is on Nardil is more difficult, as we don't react normally to the stuff they need to use. Anyway, Gillman's page says genereal anaesthetics is no problem. But the doctors here say no.

I haven't asked for Clonazepam or anything like that. They would never give that to me. Around here they are really strict about these controlled substanses. I wouldn't like having to use them either. I use 10 mg of oxazepam for sleep sometimes, and also during day time if I'm really distressed, but that's about as far as I will go.

I've decided to go off Nardil, I'm done with that drug. It might have had an effect on my mood, but even after nearly two years on it, my energy levels are so low. I have been back to work full time for 10 months, thinking that okay, I will be exhausted in the beginning, but it will turn around. But it never has. So yeah, Nardil has made my mood better, but it's side effects is keeping me from living a full life. All I do is work, rest, sleep. I used to have loads of friends, but now I'm barely keeping in touch with them, I never see them anymore. I used to work out, be really fit, now I have to save up my energy to do house chores. So I'm done with Nardil. If I crash really bad, I might choose to have ECT. If I wean off it and things are going fair enough, I'll just try filling my life with stuff that I know I used to like, and don't worry so much about going back to work.

They have sent a referral for some intensive group therapy/education/excercice-thingy, which will be four days a week for six weeks if I'm accepted. I hope that I will be accepted, and that it starts up quite soon, so that I will have something to fill my days with.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Back home again. At nearly 11 pm that night I was told they weren't moving me after all. I have no idea what happened.
> 
> The problem with ECT and Nardil is controlling the blood pressure, I believe. Because while sedated your blood pressure can act up (with all patients), but trying to correct it when a patient is on Nardil is more difficult, as we don't react normally to the stuff they need to use. Anyway, Gillman's page says genereal anaesthetics is no problem. But the doctors here say no.
> 
> I haven't asked for Clonazepam or anything like that. They would never give that to me. Around here they are really strict about these controlled substanses. I wouldn't like having to use them either. I use 10 mg of oxazepam for sleep sometimes, and also during day time if I'm really distressed, but that's about as far as I will go.
> 
> I've decided to go off Nardil, I'm done with that drug. It might have had an effect on my mood, but even after nearly two years on it, my energy levels are so low. I have been back to work full time for 10 months, thinking that okay, I will be exhausted in the beginning, but it will turn around. But it never has. So yeah, Nardil has made my mood better, but it's side effects is keeping me from living a full life. All I do is work, rest, sleep. I used to have loads of friends, but now I'm barely keeping in touch with them, I never see them anymore. I used to work out, be really fit, now I have to save up my energy to do house chores. So I'm done with Nardil. If I crash really bad, I might choose to have ECT. If I wean off it and things are going fair enough, I'll just try filling my life with stuff that I know I used to like, and don't worry so much about going back to work.
> 
> They have sent a referral for some intensive group therapy/education/excercice-thingy, which will be four days a week for six weeks if I'm accepted. I hope that I will be accepted, and that it starts up quite soon, so that I will have something to fill my days with.


wow 10 months already!!
it's funny you say that about nardil not allowing you to live a full life as i said just exactly the same to a nurse on the phone just before reading this. 
I have been doing courses on mental health to get qualifications and I have learnt of a combination of two drugs that might be more effective for me right now than Nardil.

look up perphenazine and amitriptyline, they are a commonly prescribed combination of medications for depression/anxiety.

amittriptyline is a tricyclic and perphenazine is an antipsychotic. I know we all feel like we dont need antipsychotics but i feel it's just really a bad name for what they do.

here's a quick summary of what the combination does...

"This medication is used to treat depression occurring with other mental/mood disorders (such as anxiety, agitation, schizophrenia). This medication is a combination of a tricyclic antidepressant *(amitriptyline)* and an antipsychotic medication *(perphenazine*). Together, they restore the balance of certain natural chemicals in the brain (neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin). This medication helps you to have a better mood and sense of well-being, think more clearly, and feel less nervous, so that you can take part in everyday life."

After my breakdown that combo sounds exactly what I need and I know I definitely need a break from phenelzine, the side effects are hitting me hard again and the narcolepsy thing has came back. I slept for 18 hours yeaterday!!.

Give it a google and definately speak to your pdoc about it. good luck, i feel for you as i feel exactly the bloody same on this medication. i have no energy or motivation. i have random good days like the other day but mostly just feel like ****. i never smile or laugh any more since my breakdown and i can't continue like this. my ahole psychiatrist has given up on me, i have never heard of that being done, ever! so now im trying to find a new one with a bit more knowledge of pharmachology and someone that doesnt have to look into his bloody book every time i speak to them.


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> wow 10 months already!!
> it's funny you say that about nardil not allowing you to live a full life as i said just exactly the same to a nurse on the phone just before reading this.
> I have been doing courses on mental health to get qualifications and I have learnt of a combination of two drugs that might be more effective for me right now than Nardil.
> 
> look up perphenazine and amitriptyline, they are a commonly prescribed combination of medications for depression/anxiety.
> 
> amittriptyline is a tricyclic and perphenazine is an antipsychotic. I know we all feel like we dont need antipsychotics but i feel it's just really a bad name for what they do.
> 
> here's a quick summary of what the combination does...
> 
> "This medication is used to treat depression occurring with other mental/mood disorders (such as anxiety, agitation, schizophrenia). This medication is a combination of a tricyclic antidepressant *(amitriptyline)* and an antipsychotic medication *(perphenazine*). Together, they restore the balance of certain natural chemicals in the brain (neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin). This medication helps you to have a better mood and sense of well-being, think more clearly, and feel less nervous, so that you can take part in everyday life."
> 
> After my breakdown that combo sounds exactly what I need and I know I definitely need a break from phenelzine, the side effects are hitting me hard again and the narcolepsy thing has came back. I slept for 18 hours yeaterday!!.
> 
> Give it a google and definately speak to your pdoc about it. good luck, i feel for you as i feel exactly the bloody same on this medication. i have no energy or motivation. i have random good days like the other day but mostly just feel like ****. i never smile or laugh any more since my breakdown and i can't continue like this. my ahole psychiatrist has given up on me, i have never heard of that being done, ever! so now im trying to find a new one with a bit more knowledge of pharmachology and someone that doesnt have to look into his bloody book every time i speak to them.


I'm already on an antipsychotic - seroquel. The instant release kind, not the depot version. That one you mentioned isn't available around here.

I went to my pdoc today. Told him I lowered the Nardil dose from 45 to 30 mg a few days ago. As always, he wasn't impressed by me taking things into my own hands. But anyway, he is happy to have me go off Nardil. Going to wean off it 15 mg pr. week. I am going back to Fluoxetine. It used to help me in the past. I wanna try again. Might augment it with some Bupropion if it doesn't work. At least that'll rid me of the kilos I've gained while being on Nardil.

My pdoc is really careful though, telling me it's not necessarily safe to start Fluoxetine after 14 days off Nardil. I keep telling him that if all EMCs say "should not be used within 14 days of MAOIs", that's probably what the experts agree upon. 14 days, that is. Anyway, we'll get there in the end. He told me he was okay with my plan to go back on Fluoxetine. And I mean - if all hell breaks loose, then I've always got ECT. That was the original plan after all - getting me off Nardil to get me ready for ECT.

I hope the people from group therapy call me this week, and that I can get a couple of weeks there before Christmas. I have been signed off sick from work now, going to my GP to arrange that later this week. My pdoc offered to do it, but he started talking about signing me off all December, and I was just not ready for that yet.

I'm just rambling on here, not very good English either. I'm tired after doc's appointments and everything that's happened lately, and my own brain working out a billion different strategies for how to get better. Earlier it was just "continue working, continue Nardil, things will work out in the end". But now I am off work, I am weaning off Nardil. I'm starting over, kinda. I really hope I won't get a really bad reaction to going off Nardil. I've already been admittet as an inpatient twice over the the last few weeks, and I don't want to be one of those patients who travel back and forth between an inpatient ward and home all the time.

If I'd have felt better, it probably would be kinda interesting being an inpatient. There were a lot of psychotic and manic people there this time. Alarms kept going off, a guy kept wanting to give me one of all his dozen porches, and another guy kept quizzing everyone on physics, demanding silence while he lectured, getting violent when people talked amongst themselves. They just built a new psychiatric hospital, so everything is very hi tec, they've even got motion detectors in the patient rooms. Everything's secured - no hooks or handles that can hold more than 25 kilos, a metal plate with small holes on it in front of the automatic window - no drugs can be handed through, all doors to the patient rooms open outward, no way of blocking them with furniture or your own body. The bed was really weird too, and super heavy. Maybe that had some sensors in it as well. The old hospital was really worn down, but it was divided into 3-4 wards. Now there's only two, which makes it a lot bigger. So much staff, so many patients, not ideal for peace and quiet. The ward I used to go to a few years ago only had room for 6 patients.

Anyway, not a place I wanna return to unless really necessary.


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## V1bzz

Phenelzine and Amitriptyline: Effects on Symptoms of Neurotic Depression
P. R. Rowan (a1), E. S. Paykel (a2) and R. R. Parker (a3) 
https://doi.org/10.1192/bjp.140.5.475Published online: 29 January 2018
Summary
A double-blind controlled trial of phenelzine, amitriptyline and placebo was carried out in out-patients suffering from depression or mixed anxiety and depression. After six weeks treatment both active drugs were clearly superior to placebo and of similar efficacy; therapeutic effects started to appear at two weeks.

Comparisons on symptom ratings showed that both drugs acted as true antidepressants, producing their greatest effects on ratings of depressive mood and thought content. There were additional weak differences, phenelzine producing more improvement on anxiety ratings, while amitriptyline gave greater effects on depressive impairment of work and interests and anergia.

Analyses showed little evidence of clinical subgroups responding preferentially to either drug. The findings indicate that *MAO inhibitors and tricyclic antidepressants have more closely similar clinical effects than has been thought and that either may be a useful treatment for these patients who are often considered to respond poorly to antidepressant drug treatment.*

Im at 15mg Nardil now and loving the headshocks. I gotta go to zero wedensday, supposed to have stopped taking it for 2 to 3 weeks before starting amitriptyline but that is just impossible.

I'm feeling really fed up again, having disturbing dreams and dont feel like talking to anyone or doing anything.
I'm lucky I have Clonipramine to help me through these next few weeks.

I'm searching today because if I can find information saying I can take phenelzine with Amitriptyline I would prefer that than the anti-psychotic

wish the guys were still about to help, ie @SFC01 @watertouch @Gillman fan


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## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> wish the guys were still about to help, ie @*SFC01* @*watertouch* @*Gillman fan*


Where is that idiot SFC01 anyway ?:wink2:

Yes mate, you can take both, I do, ammy for pain @ 50mg but was on 75mg for a long while.


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## Moses Chol

I havn't read your thread in like 7 month! Lol last time i remember i think you were waiting for Nardil to kick in. How long did it took for it to kick in? They say it takes 2 month for antidepresant to work but it seems it took you MUCHH longer. Any tips for me?


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## Tandorini

Moses Chol said:


> I havn't read your thread in like 7 month! Lol last time i remember i think you were waiting for Nardil to kick in. How long did it took for it to kick in? They say it takes 2 month for antidepresant to work but it seems it took you MUCHH longer. Any tips for me?


He's been on and off it.

For me it took about two weeks for the anxiety (part of the depression, not a diagnosed illness) to go away, the depression took longer, and didn't go all away.

The side effects are harsh, and some of them have been persisting over the 22 months I've been on Nardil. I am now going off it, seeing that I can't live a full life while on Nardil, as the fatigue and the remaining depressive symptoms keeps me from functioning well enough.

Nardil is a good drug if you can find a dose where you get relief while not getting sicker with side effects, I guess. And people react differently - some people don't even get side effects from it.


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## V1bzz

I am currently withdrawing from Phenelzine, I wake up with the worst hangovers that take 3hrs to go, if they go at all!
Horrible, twisted nightmares every single night, same dream continuously until i'm awoken from both my calves going into cramp.

I go on to Amitriptyline next Wednesday then a week later add Perphenzine.

Old symptoms are starting to creep back in like avoiding people, not wanting to converse with anyone and rumination. There's a particular thing that still hurts me badly even after 6 long years. I'm trying to deal with that and get it gone before it just gets hidden again, I am 100% sure until I do I am not going to get better. I am doing sad love music therapy and telling my mind to stop every time the ruminating starts. The two songs of choice right now are backstreet boys 'as long as you love me' & 'quit playing games with my heart' I love those tracks anyway, prob shouldn't be telling you all that haha.

I've fckucked off my Psychiatric nurse and Psychiatrist, well the Pdoc said he couldn't do anything more for me the useless lazy scum bag. Pnurses are completely useless and so are GP's.

I only managed to get those new meds by going to see a DR at the homeless mission in my city, overwhelming him with pharmacology about the two meds and him being a lot more experienced with mental health, as you can imagine dealing with drunks, druggies, homeless etc etc.

Oh I had a mental breakdown first week of September and was unconscious for 4 days. was reported missing after two days and found unconscious in another town in my car....it's pretty much since then my Pdoc started to abandon me, fckuckin coward!
I lived on the streets with only a sleeping bag to keep me warm for 2 or more months until I found a property willing to accept the benefits I was on. I lost everything from the breakdown, my home, my job, my car. It stripped me down to rock bottom where i currently reside now.

I feel totally sick inside of taking meds. Ive lost 6 pounds in a week since not taking any phenelzine at all, was doing just 15mg for a week before that. that disgusting swollen pot belly is going and all the fat that came with taking phenelzine.

I would say i'm coping, just about, at the moment but could snap very easily. I'm going to see how I can cope for med free for a bit before taking the amitriptyline. I need to be medicine free completely out of my system and if I don't ruminate, dwell, cry, feel depressed and miserable about that one thing then i know what I am doing now is starting to help me let it go. I think I have a real good shot on the new combo if I can get that mess off my shoulders first.

will update again soon!

Hope all is well.


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## V1bzz

Moses Chol said:


> I havn't read your thread in like 7 month! Lol last time i remember i think you were waiting for Nardil to kick in. How long did it took for it to kick in? They say it takes 2 month for antidepresant to work but it seems it took you MUCHH longer. Any tips for me?


Sorry for late reply, Nardil only really get to about 60% efficacy on a very very very rare good day.
It did get rid of a lot of minor anxiety problems and got my paranoia under control by about 80% but did nothing for my social phobia really. maybe 30-40% efficacy.

70mg did help me get through the worst of days sleeping on the steets, or maybe my army training kicked back in but since the breakdown I started having more paranoia and anxiety/panic attacks again so have decided to try something different for a while and give my body a break for all of the side effects and medium effect it gives me which don't outweight the side effects any where close.

I was 86KG (13.5 stone) when i got to taking nothing about a week and half ago, check this....
I now weigh 82KG (12.9 stone).

I'm guessing this extreme weight loss is why I feel so damned ill when I wake up in the mornings with the worst hangover from hell that lasts hours!!

In fairness, i'm feeling more positive now i don't take any medication currently. MAOI's are irreversible so I guess Nardil fixed what it could and so far so good i'm not feeling too bad.
Maybe this is the key to my mental health improving. Will let you know how I feel after I get on the amitriptyline. Could be that the things Nardil seems to have fixed (so far, fingers crossed) if they don't return the amitriptyline could be just what I need to combat the social phobia aspects of my mental illness now......we will see!

They now say Amitriptyline is the 'gold standard' of med to treat antidepressant and anxiety.

Again we will see!

Think I have been on Nardil close to two years, coming off it twice for a month each go.

You know what, maybe nardil didn't fix anything, maybe the breakdown did. I did feel eerily super positive on the days after. only reason me feeling like that stopped was becoming street homeless


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## V1bzz

Anyone know how long these disgusting withdraw nardil hangovers from hell will be around before they go?
They make me feel really gawd damned ill for a couple of hours after waking. really really horrible!!


----------



## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Anyone know how long these disgusting withdraw nardil hangovers from hell will be around before they go?
> They make me feel really gawd damned ill for a couple of hours after waking. really really horrible!!


Seems like we're at about the same stage now, I took my last Nardil on Friday. Feeling flu-like symptoms, and also heaps of anxiety/panic, unlike anything I've ever experienced before.

Can't seem to find anything on how long this will last for.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Seems like we're at about the same stage now, I took my last Nardil on Friday. Feeling flu-like symptoms, and also heaps of anxiety/panic, unlike anything I've ever experienced before.
> 
> Can't seem to find anything on how long this will last for.


Really odd thing for me, no panic attacks, when i feel depressive thoughts i scream STOP in my head. Seems to work.

Only thing for me at the moment is just how terribly ill i feel when i wake up each morning, it doesn't go until i take 1mg clonazepam, i feel kinda ok once they kick in until about 5pm. Then i just feel like a bag of crap!!

I went from 75mg to 30mg for a couple of days to 15mg for a couple of days and now nearly 2 weeks of nothing. (I think its been that long, i have very bad memory problems since the breakdown, I get really confused easily)

I don't know if the breakdown has cured some stuff or its the clonazepam or...i don't know!

something is not right here, i remember how terribly ill i became last year switching from nardil to parnate and then parnate back to nardil. I could hardly walk or do anything, I nearly walked, stumbled straight past my psychiatrists office and to A&E!!


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## WillComp

Stopping by to say hi to you guys. It's been too long since I've checked in here, and apologize for that. I keep saying I'll stick around and post more. It's always good to read what's going on with the regulars. It feels like reading messages from best friends!

I've been doing ok since I last logged in here. Thankfully nothing too dramatic like last time when i had just experienced one of the worst breakdowns ever. Things have been on the up since then. Feel super lucky to have a new co-worker who has SA and we've gotten really close, it makes everyday life so much easier having a person I can talk to and feel somewhat comfortable with. Basically I've told her my whole life story by now. There's something comforting having someone there every day that has just as much anxiety as you.

I'm still on the same dose of meds I've been on the last 2 years. 75mg Nardil, .25mg Atenolol and Clonazepam as needed, which on a typical week is about 4 times. If it's a hard, anxiety filled week, I'll take upwards of 10, but most weeks it's 4. I keep a detailed log by my bed and fill it out each time I take my meds. I haven't tweaked this since starting Nardil, and haven't tweaked the other 2 since I started those 2 in 2012. I haven't experienced any dependency or feelings of addiction, I just know I'll be on this same combo/dosage for life. I've read too many horror stories of quitting/withdrawing from things that I never expect to quit this 3.

I try to get a full night's sleep although that's almost impossible these days. I think if I did that consistently I'd feel much better. Every other day or so, I'm nodding off out of nowhere and can't get myself to wake up. It feels like I'm in a coma trying towake up but too exhausted to get up. Other sides still persist as well. You can guess which ones. &#128563;

Hypotension is virtually gone. Hardly ever get dizzy any more. Muscle, body weakness s mostly gone. I can run and work out without dying now. Man, but those persistent sides are real *******s to deal with. Earlier this evening I was desperately trying to get out of another daily "coma", but now in the middle of the night laying in bed I feel more alert and awake than I've ever been. Anyway, I'd rather deal with these harsh sides than go back to what I was before.

Last night I was wide awake like tonight, so I read some articles on Huff Post and came across a lengthy 1-2 hr read on the powerful story of this guy with mental health problems who had been in and out of psychiatric hospitals for most of his life. Most interesting yet disturbing story I've ever read. It may be a trigger so don't read it if you don't feel like it. Man, I thought I had it bad. This guy's been through hell.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/life-in-the-psych-ward/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tandorini

@WillComp Great to hear that you are doing so well, I'm happy for you.

I had a quick read through that guys story, what he describes is like another world to me. The hospitals over here are nothing like that. Even if you're unwell enough to be placed on the closed ward inside the closed ward as I call it (a unit for segregation, really), it's still kind of humane. At least they try making it so. I was mad as hell when they placed me there, took away all my things, and got me a room that had a bed in it, that was it. But still, they kept explaining what was happening and why. The staff was available at all times, and there's never a day without meeting your doctor/therapist.

I must admit I did download that book he referred to. Dunno if I'm gonna read it. But I never heard of it before, and it seemed interesting.

My anxiety levels are still really high. I've never had much trouble getting of antidepressants before. Went from 60 mg prozac to none in one week, and also 30 mg escitalopram to none the next week (i was on both, and the pdoc wanted me off them both), without much discomfort. Tapering off Lamictal makes my mood more instabile, and tapering off the last of seroquel was awful (irritation, insomnia, flu-like symptoms, dizzyness, the whole package), but that's the only two that's given me trouble, I believe. Going off Lithium I didn't notice anything.

But going off Nardil? That's hell.


----------



## WillComp

Yeah I don't think I'll be going off Nardil anytime soon, or ever. I wouldn't be able to make it. Luckily for me, it works. There are some days where it feels like it's not working, but then it comes back and I get that light airy feeling where there's no anxiety pulsating through my veins. I can talk to people without getting nervous and overall life has gotten so much easier. It's not quite enough though for those panic inducing events, so that's when I take Klonopin prn. Nardil + Klonopin works like a charm.

@Tandorini It was interesting hearing that hospitals over here are much different than over there. I've never been to one but I've seen them on TV and in documentaries, and they're not somewhere I'd want to stay in, especially to become a long term resident. I thought that part was most riveting, when Clancy started seeing ghosts, and most of them didn't know they were dead. The stories of the different personalities freaked me out. LOL. I might have to take a look at that book too. That's gotta be a good read.

Well, hope everyone is doing well and making it through the holiday season. I can't wait till it's all over. Once January gets here, I can finally breathe a sigh of relief and start thinking about spring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> I have learnt something about pregabalin. I used to be on 300mg a day and honestly never felt a positive change the whole time i was on it. Actually it kinda turned me into an @*ssh* ole


Hey V1bzz, how's it going? Hope things are improving for you mate.

Talking about pregabalin, I've been taking it at a low dose of 150mg along with 90mg Nardil. I've noticed a change in my personality, but I'm not sure if it's since I added the pregabalin to the mix, or whether it's the Nardil. I seem a lot more impulsive, in that I just do stuff without considering or caring about the consequences. It's like I get off on taking risks. Without doing into detail, I actually got fired from my job after doing something stupid. And I don't think the non-medicated me would have done it.

My wife says she's noticed a change in me, and that she can't read me any more (maybe not a bad thing lol). Thing is, I can't tell if this is just the real me without the anxiety holding me back as it always has done, or if the meds have changed my personality at some deeper level.

I guess I could drop the pregabalin for a while and see how I go on just Nardil. I started taking it because it seemed to give a bit more anxiety relief than Nardil alone.

Has anyone else noticed these kind of changes while taking Nardil, pregabalin, or both together?


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## Tandorini

Two weeks without Nardil today!


I'm less bothered by anxiety now. I have been on Oxazepam three times a day for a week and a half, but I have still felt quite anxious while on it. But today I skipped the morning dose, and I am thinking it's time to come off it. Gonna give myself a few days to go from 3x daily to none, though. I can't tell whether the slight anxiety I am now experiencing is due to Nardil withdrawal, or if it's an anxiety that is "mine", but the Nardil relieved me from. I guess only time can tell. My sleep is a lot better, but that is with Oxazepam, I can't tell if that's what's helping me sleep, or if I've actually got better.



I'm now officially ready for any new meds, ECT or whatever, as they say to leave 14 days between an MAOI and drugs that can interact with it. 



Starting group therapy next week, I'm kinda nervous about that, but also looking forward to it. It's an intensive program, four days a week for 6-7 weeks. 


I think I wanna go back on Fluoxetine, as it's worked for me before.


----------



## mahsuncool

I want nardil. but not here  I'm using clonazepam but no longer effect .. i need nardil


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## Tandorini

mahsuncool said:


> I want nardil. but not here  I'm using clonazepam but no longer effect .. i need nardil


Why can't you get it? It's not really available where I live either, but it just reqiures an application to have it imported.


----------



## Tandorini

Went to see my pdoc yesterday, he agreed to me trying out Fluoxetine. Started 20 mg yesterday. I'm feeling kinda anxious about it. I know it used to be the wonder drug for me before, but I also know that I got severely depressed while on it, and that was the reason why it was taken away the last time. Well, that, and the fact that I seemed to develop anxiety symptoms on it, which went away when I reduced the dose. So I don't really know what to expect. Anything from getting worse to getting well, really. But I'm happy to be off Nardil. The fatigue is totally gone. I sleep through the night, and need an alarm clock in order to get up when I need. 



I am also in group therapy four days a week now, which is okay. There is physical activity every day, and it feels great not having Nardil interfere with my performance.


----------



## Sweeto

Good luck with Fluoxetine. I was put on it 1,5 month ago (20mg) and I've noticed no difference at all while on it. I'm quite desperate cos I've literally tried everything that might cure SA/depression without success. I'm thinking of trying ECT as a last resort tho


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## V1bzz

Sweeto said:


> Good luck with Fluoxetine. I was put on it 1,5 month ago (20mg) and I've noticed no difference at all while on it. I'm quite desperate cos I've literally tried everything that might cure SA/depression without success. I'm thinking of trying ECT as a last resort tho


Try Amitriptyline.....it's tough though, I flushed all of mine down the toilet today. I had 2 weeks of feeling so spaced out and anxious that I couldn't leave the flat unless I dropped 4 clonazepams. The best I could do was just over 3 weeks.....

I thought I was strong enough but had a nightmare last night about someone I hurt 6 yrs ago but this time the nightmare added in a friend having a thing with the person I hurt 6 years ago (and clearly still love). Today has been a very bad day, I am so depressed and heartbroken that I have not eaten and have just been crying. Tears of pain in my soul about her and tears of failure about me flushing those meds.

I thought I was doing ok, well far from ok but i mean coping on the new meds waiting for them to work. That nightmare though, that was the breaking point for me, i have been in a mess all day.

I'm going back to nardil, i want to go back to what I know and how i'm going to feel. it's not a great life at all but it is clearly the best I am going to get.

I feel ashamed of myself today for the things I have done to try and contact 'that' person today.
I have tried everything to let this part of my past go but it just won't leave me alone.

I'm honestly so sick of this life, I just want it to end. I am destined to suffer about that one thing for the rest of my life, things I said while in the worst volatile depression I had ever experienced, hell!

Just that one thing is ruining my life and chipping away at my soul. talking doesn't help. meditation doesn't help, forcing my mind with affirmations to let go doesn't help. Telling myself she can't be a very nice person if she can't understand doesn't work. Trying to hate her doesn't work because my soul felt a connection with hers, something i've never ever felt before and doubt I will ever again and my soul pines in pain because something is missing and I know exactly what it is. Then I tell myself 'surely she would be feeling this pain too if it was real' but then I remember the things I said, unforgivable things, things that made her hate me.

What a mess!

The only thing that does help is Nardil, hiding it, not allowing me to get fully well again.

I took 15 mg nardil today and will go up to 30 by the end of the week. I hope it takes away this pain really really fast.

I see the doc again in 2 weeks, will get more nardil and ask for pregab again. I will take it recreational stylee. I found it s much more effective that way.

Hard to know if its the pregab or the having no anxiety that made you do that thing at work or both (soz can't remember your name, my head is so flucked today)

I couldn't see any change in myself when i was taking pregab every day, it was everyone else telling me i had changed (not for the better!!)

As always, hope everyone else is doing better than me. This looks like a battle I can not win.

I'm F'ing p1ssed off that I am going to put all that weight back on, I pretty much have a flat stomach again. Hoping the pilates ab blaster routine ive been doing a couple of times a week and my kettle bell training will help keep it at bay.

Amazing how a dream can totally ruin everything and determine how you feel the next day and days after. I will be heartbroken now until the nardil kicks back in. hopefully it will work better than ever this time.

I was supposed to pick up Perphenazine today to add to the amitriptyline. Supposed to be an awesome combination.....I couldn't even get out of the flat today to go pick it up (about 200mtr walk).

If i hadn't flushed them I think I would have carried on to see how I felt tomorrow.
I feel so stupid. I just don't want to be fat again because it hits my confidence big time.
I guess being more in control of my life and not feeling like this is more important than anything.

What does it matter? i'm 43 in April (still look late 20's  ) 7 yrs away from being an old man. Guess I just have to accept that this (how i am on nardil) is the best I am going to get out of this life. Truly can't wait for it to end!


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> Hard to know if its the pregab or the having no anxiety that made you do that thing at work or both (soz can't remember your name, my head is so flucked today)
> 
> I couldn't see any change in myself when i was taking pregab every day, it was everyone else telling me i had changed (not for the better!!)


Hi mate. It was me, don't worry I can never remember people's usernames here lol. Sorry to hear you still aren't good. Hopefully Nardil will give you a lift when it kicks in again.

Yeah, it was weird that period when I was acting manic. At the time I wasn't aware of it, but looking back now I was slightly out of control, very impulsive, never gave a thought to any possible consequences.
I was on 90mg Nardil, 150mg pregab and 0.5mg clonaz at night. Maybe it was too much, the cocktail got to me over time.

I ended up dropping to 75mg about three weeks ago. Still on the pregab, have cut out the clonaz every night. Now I only take it as needed.

I'm feeling pretty good right now. The first week on 75 I felt very down (could have been because of other life stuff though), but things have evened out mood-wise.

Hoping the slightly lower dose might stop, or at least slow down, the weight gain. I was always about 88-89kg pre-Nard, but now tip the scales at dead on 100kg lol. That's in about a year of taking it, mostly at 90mg.

Also hoping that slight mania and impulsiveness won't creep up on me again.

I'll see how it goes on 75 for the time being. If all stays good I might give 60 a go. I really want to find that sweet spot, where I'm still getting the benefits but with the least amount of side effects.

I'm still vaping like a true fiend ... but there are worse things I suppose &#128521;


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## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> Where is that idiot SFC01 anyway ?:wink2:
> 
> Yes mate, you can take both, I do, ammy for pain @ 50mg but was on 75mg for a long while.


Hmm, don't know why I have only just seen this. ah, that sfc bloke is probably bloating about not getting side effects on nardil somewhere >


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## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Hi mate. It was me, don't worry I can never remember people's usernames here lol. Sorry to hear you still aren't good. Hopefully Nardil will give you a lift when it kicks in again.
> 
> Yeah, it was weird that period when I was acting manic. At the time I wasn't aware of it, but looking back now I was slightly out of control, very impulsive, never gave a thought to any possible consequences.
> I was on 90mg Nardil, 150mg pregab and 0.5mg clonaz at night. Maybe it was too much, the cocktail got to me over time.
> 
> I ended up dropping to 75mg about three weeks ago. Still on the pregab, have cut out the clonaz every night. Now I only take it as needed.
> 
> I'm feeling pretty good right now. The first week on 75 I felt very down (could have been because of other life stuff though), but things have evened out mood-wise.
> 
> Hoping the slightly lower dose might stop, or at least slow down, the weight gain. I was always about 88-89kg pre-Nard, but now tip the scales at dead on 100kg lol. That's in about a year of taking it, mostly at 90mg.
> 
> Also hoping that slight mania and impulsiveness won't creep up on me again.
> 
> I'll see how it goes on 75 for the time being. If all stays good I might give 60 a go. I really want to find that sweet spot, where I'm still getting the benefits but with the least amount of side effects.
> 
> I'm still vaping like a true fiend ... but there are worse things I suppose &#128521;


Just be careful on the pregab, its a dodgy as fkuck drug and horrible to get off of. took me a few months. every other drug i just say fkuck it and stop. the pregab withdraw gives you nasty headaches. I got off it because i felt like the negatives on it far outweighed the positives.
Saying that I may get some again because it's good fun just like dropping 300 mg every now and then. It makes me feel drunk and I talk sh1t >

@D'avjo i may see on the 28th or i may possibly go see him (the doc) next monday about doing 25 mg amit while i'm on the pregab.

He's just a normal doctor but actually listens to wtf i'm saying when i pharmachologize his @rse

If he says no i'll go print off a million pubmed studies showing that you can take them together and blow his mind apart. I actually have 5 studies already saved for such moments.

I still have a script waiting for me at the pharmacy to pick up of perphenazine. Wondering if I should go get it and take that with the nardil instead, it's an anti-psychotic. ever tried it? actually, did you ever try the combo, amitriptyline & perphenazine?


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## V1bzz

Feeling the benefits of being back on nardil (mentally) already, boy do I feel like i'm gunna puke though!!!

Never felt like this after taking any other time being on nardil. I'm guessing it could be the withdraw from the Amitriptyline though.

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how quickly the weight starts to come back on. Even if you are hardly eating (like me) because you feel so ill.

Also have been reminded very quickly of that coldness nardil gives you, right to the bones, brrrr.

Liking the head rushes though :wink2:

Man I feel so nauseous


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## Greekgirl

Does anybody of you feel shakiness? I feel shaky inside pike there is too much adrenaline in your body? I can also feel my heart, not pounding but i can just feel it. Is they how this is supposed to feel?


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## Tandorini

Greekgirl said:


> Does anybody of you feel shakiness? I feel shaky inside pike there is too much adrenaline in your body? I can also feel my heart, not pounding but i can just feel it. Is they how this is supposed to feel?


Didn't feel shaky. Have you measured your BP when you feel your heart? Might be elevated BP.


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## V1bzz

Greekgirl said:


> Does anybody of you feel shakiness? I feel shaky inside pike there is too much adrenaline in your body? I can also feel my heart, not pounding but i can just feel it. Is they how this is supposed to feel?


Yeah I always felt shaky. Even to this day when i'm on nardil my hands shake extremely. They are ok at the moment though. hmmm saying that I can only remember having shakey hands really badly after the breakdown......but i have very rare faded memories of times before that.

I pretty much think I am going to be unemployable once I am fully recovered. I have been arrested 5 times since my breakdown. Was arrested again on Saturday and spent 15 hours in a cell.
Long story short, when i was living on the streets, at the start I drank a lot to get through the days, prob for the first week or two and I used to go to a 24hour garage to get my booze. The guy there was always massively disrespectful to me, at that point I was in crisis and not in any shape to defend myself verbally.

Well I went to that garage late Saturday to get some cans to Bring back to my flat to drink while I done some mixing on my decks. He refused me and was disrespectful again and (i now know) he is a trigger for me and I lost it. I told him to unlock the doors to come outside so I could give him a beating like nothing he has experienced, he wouldn't so I punched the reinforced glass and cracked/smashed the area where my fist hit. I broke 2 of my knuckles on my right hand I hit it so hard....so now have that on my record, criminal damage!!

I would like to finish off by saying that I am not a violent, angry, mad person and I am massively self punishing myself for what I did at the moment and it has most certainly ruined my chances of working with the NHS mental health crisis team who offered me a job once I was well again.

Gutted and really annoyed at myself. Thankfully I got off with a caution because the police know me now and know what I had to go through last year. It still shows on my criminal record though if an enhanced disclosure is done on me which 100% to do that job, that would need to be done.

Not sure what future I have now once i've recovered. I feel like it's just best for me to never walk out of the front door here :crying::frown2:

sorry to make your post about me. I expect your body is just adapting or you are possibly pushing it too fast. I'm still on 30 mg, will go up mid week to 45 mg I think. Hopefully I have stopped hating myself by then!

Don't make the mistakes I did on Nardil. Sit down and think about when you are feeling this, is it just from taking the meds? is it after you have eaten something? i learned that my interactions to some foods took about an hour to hit.

Also before I stopped, not all the time but often about an hour or so after taking my morning dose my heart would pound and I would feel funny,

Try not to over stress but at the same time just make sure its not something bad, you know?


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## jtd1974

Sorry to hear about all that stuff mate. Try not to beat yourself up too much about it. That garage dude sounds enough to get anyone going!


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## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Sorry to hear about all that stuff mate. Try not to beat yourself up too much about it. That garage dude sounds enough to get anyone going!


Thank you


----------



## V1bzz

Well, I think i'm actually starting to feel a bit better. The old sh11t is starting back up again about my meds. I feared this when I felt like trying amitriptyline. Couldn't sleep last night at all because I am so god damned tired of fighting these fcucking idiot doctors to get meds that a psychiatrist says I should be on.

Going to the doctors again on monday (seen one yesterday) and am afraid I am going to lose it big time and smash the place up if they don't give me what I was on before!


----------



## Tandorini

I don't even have the words to describe how bad I feel for all the sh*t you've been through, @V1bzz. I can't even begin to imagine what it has been like.

We're in two different worlds, allthough some of our struggles are the same. The Nardil journey is what we have in common.

I'm still seeing my pdoc once a week, and I am also in the intensive outpatient programme I started after new year. I have had discussions with both my pdoc and my boss, and I have decided I want to try going back to work in two weeks time. My pdoc wanted me to do it more gradually, but then again, as I told him, I am a lot better than I was when I got signed off sick before Christmas, and I did manage somehow then. I am actually a little curious and eager to find out how my body and mind will respond to working now that I am not on Nardil. I wonder if I will be less exhausted.

The anxiety I felt when weaning off Nardil is gone. I was afraid some of the anxiety would remain, but it didn't. And I didn't have any trouble starting up on Fluoxetine either, I remember getting kinda anxious as a side effect earlier. It's only 20 mg, and it isn't doing anything for my depression yet, but it's good to know I tolerate it.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I don't even have the words to describe how bad I feel for all the sh*t you've been through, @V1bzz. I can't even begin to imagine what it has been like.
> 
> We're in two different worlds, allthough some of our struggles are the same. The Nardil journey is what we have in common.
> 
> I'm still seeing my pdoc once a week, and I am also in the intensive outpatient programme I started after new year. I have had discussions with both my pdoc and my boss, and I have decided I want to try going back to work in two weeks time. My pdoc wanted me to do it more gradually, but then again, as I told him, I am a lot better than I was when I got signed off sick before Christmas, and I did manage somehow then. I am actually a little curious and eager to find out how my body and mind will respond to working now that I am not on Nardil. I wonder if I will be less exhausted.
> 
> The anxiety I felt when weaning off Nardil is gone. I was afraid some of the anxiety would remain, but it didn't. And I didn't have any trouble starting up on Fluoxetine either, I remember getting kinda anxious as a side effect earlier. It's only 20 mg, and it isn't doing anything for my depression yet, but it's good to know I tolerate it.


ah hope the new meds work out for you :smile2:

my body has been in pain since this afternoon. I usually go on and off nardil with no problems but this time is different. The awful pain in my legs is back with a vengeance and all around my core, mainly my lower back.

Looks like Nardil is going to have some fun with me again this time around! Damn crazy drug!!


----------



## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> Hmm, don't know why I have only just seen this. ah, that sfc bloke is probably bloating about not getting side effects on nardil somewhere >


Side effects? Not sure I know what they are, Ill look it up lol


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## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> Side effects? Not sure I know what they are, Ill look it up lol


>

slightly annoyed my emoticons don't work on this forum anymore!


----------



## V1bzz

Man the dopamine from the Nardil is hitting me big this time around. My muscles ache sooo bad!!!

Not sure what is going on this time. 5 weeks or so ago I was taking 5 in one go in the morning and not even noticing it.

Have they gone back to the old nardil?? Man, really hope it works 100% this time.


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## V1bzz

Well the dopamine muscle pain behaved today. felt nothing really from taking nardil today.
I don't think i'll ever work this drug out.

Hows it going for everyone else?
@D'avjo heard from @watertouch lately. its gotta be close to a year now that he last posted!!


----------



## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> @*D'avjo* heard from @*watertouch* lately. its gotta be close to a year now that he last posted!!


Nah mate, think I lost the fat swedish *******s email as well. Would be good to hear from Big A tho.


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## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> Nah mate, think I lost the fat swedish *******s email as well. Would be good to hear from Big A tho.


Indeed!


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## V1bzz

Up to 60 I go today. working out to not get lard @rse again!! :lol


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## V1bzz

I gotta say it again. Pregab is so much more effective just taking it when you need it and not daily.
I was bored so done 200 mg and my anxiety has pretty much gone so i went to the shop to get some cider and was chatting sh11t to the guy behind the counter, messing about at him and stuff.

It was cool just being able to sorta be myself, except a slightly drunker/but not drunk/high? version lol


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## V1bzz

@jtd1974 @Tandorini @Greekgirl

How are things going for you guys? hope all is well!


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## Tandorini

Hanging in there. Just finished my intensive outpatient program, and the plan is to go back to work in a bit. At 40 mg of Fluoxetine now. I'm definitely better than before Christmas, but not feeling great. Hope to go up to 60 mg in a while.


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## jtd1974

I'm alright thanks mate. Still sticking with 90mg, plus pregab, mostly for sleep. Haven't been feeling great, but my social anxiety is under control and for that I'm grateful.

I got myself a new job. Nothing to shout about, part-time cleaning, but hey it's a job I guess. I just finished my first week and so far, so good. I find Nardil makes it easier for me to go with the flow and not get too stressed about stuff like I used to.

I've also started taking metformin. It's a diabetes medicine, but has been found to be helpful for people putting on weight because of psychiatric meds. It's supposed to make it easier to shift the kilos. It's too early for me to tell if it's any good yet.

Anyway, hope things start improving for you now you're back on Nardil mate.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hanging in there. Just finished my intensive outpatient program, and the plan is to go back to work in a bit. At 40 mg of Fluoxetine now. I'm definitely better than before Christmas, but not feeling great. Hope to go up to 60 mg in a while.


Glad you are feeling a bit better though!
@jtd1974 congrats on the job. I always found nardil gave me great motivation to work. I almost enjoyed it :lol

I'm bored not working but I don't feel like working at all right now, just the thought of it makes me feel worn out. Guess I have a ways to go to get my working mojo back!


----------



## V1bzz

My new surgery that also has a pharmacy has actually prescribed me the brand klonopin instead of the generic clonazepam.

Not sure if that means anything? @D'avjo


----------



## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> My new surgery that also has a pharmacy has actually prescribed me the brand klonopin instead of the generic clonazepam.
> 
> Not sure if that means anything? @*D'avjo*


Just got your message as well mate, no idea to be honest as I`ve never taken either but I would guess there shouldn't be too much difference in strength.

You take it every day?


----------



## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> Just got your message as well mate, no idea to be honest as I`ve never taken either but I would guess there shouldn't be too much difference in strength.
> 
> You take it every day?


my pdco wants me to take it morning and night but nah, i'm not stupid. I just take it when I feel i need that boost.

I have noticed a difference in Klonopin, if you take 4 like i did last night it flcucks you right up. I thought i had been spiked last night but realized it was prob the klonny as it takes a few hours to kick in properly....basically i couldnt walk properly, i was falling over, banging into walls. I ended up having to go home because no place would let me in. even though i only had about 5 pints!
I woke up today at 10am today with all my clothes still on, jack scarf and hat an all and even my trainers. Have been still wobbling all over the place today like im wasted and my hypotension is damn bad. glad i know how to deal with it. it gets very close to ko'ing me


----------



## WillComp

Hey @V1bzz, sounds like me with my hypotension and falling into walls. Do you ever end up shaking like a horse dying.. lol.. basically like having a seizure? Still happens to me almost every time. I have no idea what that is. Could even be a stroke which means I've had hundreds of strokes in the past 2 years.

The other day at work I experienced it again and had to walk up a flight of stairs. My legs were falling apart, shaking, and not working at all. It was like there was no blood down there so my legs and feet didn't work. I couldn't feel them and couldn't move them up to to the next step. Felt like a dream. Somehow made it to my office, while my legs repeatedly kept dropping me down a few feet, but still standing, then dropped down in my chair and continued seizuring for about a minute longer, and slowly stopped shaking.

This always happens if I get out of my car and don't stand there for 20 seconds before moving on. It's so freaky, it's like my motor skills fuhkc up and stop working. Hope this doesn't mean I'm heading towards Parkinson's. Anyway, doesn't happen often anymore because I've gotten in a habit of standing there 20 sec before walking.

I also still suffer from no libido/anorgasmia. Seems to be getting worse with time. It's brutal for me, given I always had an extremely high libido.

Well, hope you're hanging in there too. Oh ,guess what? Got a massive bonus at work and at the same time opened up a new airline cc with a sign up bonus of 60k miles which means I've decided to take a vacation to Europe in the summer. Have no idea where I'm going yet. Should be fun. This will defo get me thru the winter thinking about and planning a dream vacation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Hey @V1bzz, sounds like me with my hypotension and falling into walls. Do you ever end up shaking like a horse dying.. lol.. basically like having a seizure? Still happens to me almost every time. I have no idea what that is. Could even be a stroke which means I've had hundreds of strokes in the past 2 years.
> 
> The other day at work I experienced it again and had to walk up a flight of stairs. My legs were falling apart, shaking, and not working at all. It was like there was no blood down there so my legs and feet didn't work. I couldn't feel them and couldn't move them up to to the next step. Felt like a dream. Somehow made it to my office, while my legs repeatedly kept dropping me down a few feet, but still standing, then dropped down in my chair and continued seizuring for about a minute longer, and slowly stopped shaking.
> 
> This always happens if I get out of my car and don't stand there for 20 seconds before moving on. It's so freaky, it's like my motor skills fuhkc up and stop working. Hope this doesn't mean I'm heading towards Parkinson's. Anyway, doesn't happen often anymore because I've gotten in a habit of standing there 20 sec before walking.
> 
> I also still suffer from no libido/anorgasmia. Seems to be getting worse with time. It's brutal for me, given I always had an extremely high libido.
> 
> Well, hope you're hanging in there too. Oh ,guess what? Got a massive bonus at work and at the same time opened up a new airline cc with a sign up bonus of 60k miles which means I've decided to take a vacation to Europe in the summer. Have no idea where I'm going yet. Should be fun. This will defo get me thru the winter thinking about and planning a dream vacation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds awesome mate & yes my hands shake terribly which often makes parkinsons pop into my head. The only thing that stops it is by taking a clonazzy.

I'm abit disappointed with nardil at the moment as it hasnt given me the get up and go like it did the first time around. I don't feel like working or anything, i'm guessing it's gotta be from the breakdown.

Oh i have a really fckucked up up date to give, will do it when im over the initial shock of it. happened two weeks ago. basically I was in intensive care for two days and kept dying. I had a seizure in a club after taking xtc and the paramedics said i wasnt going to make it to the hospital alive. I died several times and I think they put me in an induced coma for two days.

Believe it or not it happened late saturday and I checked myself out of hospital on tuesday all because nobody had told me the seriousness of what i had gone through. I didn't have a clue until I seen the manager of the bar/club and he told me how bad it was.


----------



## Tandorini

Hope you're still hanging in there, vb1zz.


I am so relieved to be off Nardil. I am now on 60 mg of Fluoxetine, and doing quite well, actually. My energy is back, I have no problem working my job, I don't even need a nap after work. I'm not feeling happy really, but I hope that will come after a while. With so long not feeling any positive emotions I guess it takes time to settle into a new routine. I hardly score anything at all on depression tests anymore, and my anxiety is gone. I don't get overwhelmed or exhausted anymore. I can handle stress at work without feeling like my head gets too full.



The only bummer is that I get restless legs from Seroquel still, and because of that have trouble sleeping sometimes.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hope you're still hanging in there, vb1zz.
> 
> I am so relieved to be off Nardil. I am now on 60 mg of Fluoxetine, and doing quite well, actually. My energy is back, I have no problem working my job, I don't even need a nap after work. I'm not feeling happy really, but I hope that will come after a while. With so long not feeling any positive emotions I guess it takes time to settle into a new routine. I hardly score anything at all on depression tests anymore, and my anxiety is gone. I don't get overwhelmed or exhausted anymore. I can handle stress at work without feeling like my head gets too full.
> 
> The only bummer is that I get restless legs from Seroquel still, and because of that have trouble sleeping sometimes.


aww man restless legs sucks ***, i used to have it sooooo bad before nardil. I still have it during the day, like always bouncing my legs up and down on my toes but just not in bed anymore. I hope your meds eventually make you feel happier. I feel in the same place really, like im sitting on a fence, not happy, not sad, just nowhere.

My worst thing right now is loneliness. Thats what makes me drink because I go to a local pub just so im not alone, even though I sit alone. Still have no friends really that go out. Did make a new friend who is my neighbor but had to fluckuk him off because he is an alcoholic and was getting me into drinking more and more and more.

I had to give myself a goal, something to aim for because the limbo has been killing me so I am doing a charity march on June 29th called 'The fan dance'. its a 24km course that the uk special forces (SAS) have to do as part of their training.
So i'm in training right now. Life feels so much better having a big goal like that to aim for and complete.

I'm still fighting the nardil belly but think I am slowly shifting those spare tyres because I have been doing Fast march walks carrying 16kg on my back.

Wish me luck, im gunna need it :grin2:


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> I'm alright thanks mate. Still sticking with 90mg, plus pregab, mostly for sleep. Haven't been feeling great, but my social anxiety is under control and for that I'm grateful.
> 
> I got myself a new job. Nothing to shout about, part-time cleaning, but hey it's a job I guess. I just finished my first week and so far, so good. I find Nardil makes it easier for me to go with the flow and not get too stressed about stuff like I used to.
> 
> I've also started taking metformin. It's a diabetes medicine, but has been found to be helpful for people putting on weight because of psychiatric meds. It's supposed to make it easier to shift the kilos. It's too early for me to tell if it's any good yet.
> 
> Anyway, hope things start improving for you now you're back on Nardil mate.


Hows that med going, knocking off the pounds? if its working i will ask for it myself. so tired of this constant battle with my stomach!


----------



## jtd1974

Hi mate. Yeah metformin is good, worth a go. It seems free of side-effects too.

I reckon it's stopped my weight going up any more. I'm at around 100kg, up from 90 pre-Nardil.

Just gotta work on those peanut butter cravings lol. I work out daily, but still find it hard to actually shift much weight. A kilo here and there maybe, but then I have a day of gorging on c**p and it goes back on.

Glad to hear youre sticking with the med. Keep up the fitness stuff; apart from anything else it's a great mood booster.


----------



## V1bzz

jtydrthtwr

****ukin forum. just wrote a long *** detailed post and it didnt post it and told me to go back so i did and the long assss post was gone. cnuts!!


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> jtydrthtwr
> 
> ****ukin forum. just wrote a long *** detailed post and it didnt post it and told me to go back so i did and the long assss post was gone. cnuts!!


Yeah, it's done that to me before, usually when I'm using my phone and accidentally hit the "back" button. It sometimes saves a draft, but you can bet if it's a long reply that's taken you half an hour to write, it won't save lol


----------



## V1bzz

Ok so a quicker version. I was in ICU (intensive care unit) from sunday night till friday afternoon, sedated for 3 days because suddenly sunday i felt really unwell and was struggling to breath. I had a super bad lung infection which had fluid on it, also after they sedated me i puked but didnt have the energy to get it out so that went on my lung too.

One thing after another lol.

ok so i was reading a research paper about how much your body absorbs from the different hardness of different types of meds and it can range from a massively low 30% to a massive 50%.

Nardil is a super tough pill so im figuring based on that paper i'm only really getting about 40% of it into my system.
I am now doing a test, im on day two and feel good actually. I've dropped from 75mg to 45mg and the night before i put them in about 2 inches of water, leave them for a bit so they soften then crush them up as much as i can. i then stir it every now and then then put it back in the fridge to take the next morning.

If that study is correct I should be getting a really high absorption rate compared to even when i was taking 75 mg.

Will keep you updated. oh so far I am able to orgasm again @WillComp lol and I don't feel any drop in mood.


----------



## nb89

Does changing doses make your anxiety temporarily worse, like when you first start the med? When I started Lexapro 10mg the first 10-14 days were a nightmare, my anxiety was made even worse than before. I tried to up my dose a few weeks ago from 10mg to 15mg, and my anxiety spiked really bad for the next week like when I first started, so I went back down to 10mg a week ago, and only just today do I feel much less anxious.


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> I've dropped from 75mg to 45mg and the night before i put them in about 2 inches of water, leave them for a bit so they soften then crush them up as much as i can. i then stir it every now and then then put it back in the fridge to take the next morning.


F**k me mate, that concoction must taste like c**p!! My Nardil pills taste terrible if I don't swallow them straight away.

Interesting though, I might try it myself to see if it feels stronger. I'm back on 90mg after trying 75 for a few weeks. I seem to need the higher dose for it to work properly, but like you say maybe some of it isn't being absorbed.

I take my full dose in the morning on an empty stomach with a cup of tea; again, it seems to work better like that.

BTW, sorry to hear about your recent trouble mate. Wonder what brought it on.

Take care of yourself man.


----------



## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> Ok so a quicker version. I was in ICU (intensive care unit) from sunday night till friday afternoon, sedated for 3 days because suddenly sunday i felt really unwell and was struggling to breath. I had a super bad lung infection which had fluid on it, also after they sedated me i puked but didnt have the energy to get it out so that went on my lung too.
> 
> One thing after another lol.
> 
> ok so i was reading a research paper about how much your body absorbs from the different hardness of different types of meds and it can range from a massively low 30% to a massive 50%.
> 
> Nardil is a super tough pill so im figuring based on that paper i'm only really getting about 40% of it into my system.
> I am now doing a test, im on day two and feel good actually. I've dropped from 75mg to 45mg and the night before i put them in about 2 inches of water, leave them for a bit so they soften then crush them up as much as i can. i then stir it every now and then then put it back in the fridge to take the next morning.
> 
> If that study is correct I should be getting a really high absorption rate compared to even when i was taking 75 mg.
> 
> Will keep you updated. oh so far I am able to orgasm again @*WillComp* lol and I don't feel any drop in mood.


WHAT?? Where?? How??? LOL

Well, that's encouraging to hear. Coincidentally I was just thinking about doing that. I've been on 75mg for as long as I can remember, and just last week I asked my dr if I could drop to 60mg. So I've been on 60 for 1 week. Still can't finish for the life of me on 60mg, but I know from experience and hearing other people's stories, going down to 45mg for a few days or a week is the magical route. It's basically like taking Viagra. Hmmm, would combining Viagra and a drop to 45 make for an unforgettable week? I do have a sample of a couple Vs. Does anyone have experience with this?

@*V1bzz*, sorry to hear about your time in the ICU. That experience sounds like a nightmare. Glad you're doing ok now. I'm doing ok now too. Still have terrible anticipatory anxiety.. Nardil does nothing for that. But when the anxiety-provoking event approaches, the anxiety leaves and Nardil does its job during the event. It's just that anxiety before-hand that drives me mad.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> WHAT?? Where?? How??? LOL
> 
> Well, that's encouraging to hear. Coincidentally I was just thinking about doing that. I've been on 75mg for as long as I can remember, and just last week I asked my dr if I could drop to 60mg. So I've been on 60 for 1 week. Still can't finish for the life of me on 60mg, but I know from experience and hearing other people's stories, going down to 45mg for a few days or a week is the magical route. It's basically like taking Viagra. Hmmm, would combining Viagra and a drop to 45 make for an unforgettable week? I do have a sample of a couple Vs. Does anyone have experience with this?
> 
> @*V1bzz*, sorry to hear about your time in the ICU. That experience sounds like a nightmare. Glad you're doing ok now. I'm doing ok now too. Still have terrible anticipatory anxiety.. Nardil does nothing for that. But when the anxiety-provoking event approaches, the anxiety leaves and Nardil does its job during the event. It's just that anxiety before-hand that drives me mad.


Good to hear from you brother. yeah i've had a few tough months this year, 2 or 3 months ago someone spiked my bottle of cider with really strong xtc and I literally died in thew basement house music room. apparantly i was dancing then stiffened up and fell to the floor jerking and sh111t with froth coming out of my mouth. I died about 10 minutes later and the staff were doing cpr on me to keep me alive. when paramedics arrived i went into another seizure and died again. they brought me back but told everyone i had zero chance of being alive once i got to the hospital. they rang all my fsmily to come to the hospital to say bye to me before they put me into an induced coma.
I died several more times. I don't know why or understand but i made it through. came out of intensive care after two days. woke up on a high priority ward, checked myself out of hospital the next day and came home and healed on my own bed. Not sure really why the universe won't just let it end you know? it plays on my mind a lot.

anyhow, so the experiment. i got fed up of crushing them so drop them into my morning cup of tea. they dissolve much quicker this was and to be honest i feel great. Only thing I find hard is this constant 15 year old horn dog. driving me insane feeling so god damn horny every day.

my mood i would say has probably improved than how i felt on 75. this weekend though though i'm doing 60 mg. im going to just up it every weekend and see how sh11t rolls, but yeah i went out last night, had zero anxiety, was dancing and chatting up sooooo many women, it was a completely a different me. I think being so horny just ko's the anxiety enough to try and get laid ha ha.

how you guys getting on, I just had a health assessment last monday and woithin 2 days have been awarded an extra £336 a month to live on. i'm buzzing as i've been struggling so bad financially.

I got the best result i could hope for from the assessment and i was just honest and truthful.

So i'll be on about £900 a month :O

How is everyone 
else doing?


----------



## V1bzz

Oh and don't ever tell your doc what your doing so you always have lots of nardil coming in, just in case your having a really bad week, you can bump up to 90 for a few days.

Seriously, everyone should try it by putting it in a cup of tea but stirring it every now and then. it works!!


----------



## V1bzz

nb89 said:


> Does changing doses make your anxiety temporarily worse, like when you first start the med? When I started Lexapro 10mg the first 10-14 days were a nightmare, my anxiety was made even worse than before. I tried to up my dose a few weeks ago from 10mg to 15mg, and my anxiety spiked really bad for the next week like when I first started, so I went back down to 10mg a week ago, and only just today do I feel much less anxious.


Yeah you have to imagine that its trying to rewire tyour brain a bit more, there fore its gunna make you feel like sh111t for a bit but i would say give it at least a month and see how your anxiety is then. maybe ask your pdoc for some clonazepam while it gets into your system.

my current mix is phenelzine, clonazepam (which i don't even take most days) and pregabalin (which i only take a few times a week.

I feel good.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> Hope you're still hanging in there, vb1zz.
> 
> I am so relieved to be off Nardil. I am now on 60 mg of Fluoxetine, and doing quite well, actually. My energy is back, I have no problem working my job, I don't even need a nap after work. I'm not feeling happy really, but I hope that will come after a while. With so long not feeling any positive emotions I guess it takes time to settle into a new routine. I hardly score anything at all on depression tests anymore, and my anxiety is gone. I don't get overwhelmed or exhausted anymore. I can handle stress at work without feeling like my head gets too full.
> 
> The only bummer is that I get restless legs from Seroquel still, and because of that have trouble sleeping sometimes.


I just did a depression test now and.... "Your score is 20 out of 27"

it's weird though because i don't feel good or bad, its like i'm stuck in no mans land.


----------



## V1bzz

oh just started testing this and it really actually improves my mood quite a bit after spraying under my tongue 3 times.
I've also noticed the nardil fatness on my body is going already!! can't wait until i can weight train again and do my hikes again. This stuff is as good as steroids, maybe better but has no side effects.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VENOM-TH...478081608&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982#rwid

Oh and here are my newest releases.

*Mad as hell* - 



 (was abit annoyed at the universe when i made this lol)
*Altered Syndrome* - 



 (a festival type underground track)
*That kinda love* - 



*Time *- https://soundcloud.com/v1bzz/time (this originally had a great vocal but i lost it somehow)

Update, still feeling good but not feeling like going to bed and i keep falling asleep in my chair for 2 or 3 hours a night.
No decreased mood yet, I actually am getting rushes all over my body!


----------



## WillComp

Man, @V1bzz, I had no idea you were going through all that. That's scary as fugck! Glad you survived and made it through. Just the other day I watched a film on youtube, this guy was dying on the floor in his bathroom, curling up and blood coming out of his mouth, then died a few minutes later. So when you described your last couple months, I was thinking about those images. Damn, you def got me beat. Ha! I thought passing out in the middle of a store, or smacking my head full-speed on the pavement and getting a bloody face and black eye were the worst thing you could go through.

Interesting idea about putting nardil in tea. Hadn't thought of doing that. I'm still doing well on 60. There's been several nights where I fell asleep, woke up at 6am and realized I forgot to take 2 tablets the night before. Hasn't really bothered me though. I'm hoping in about a month from now, I can drop to 45 for a week without any spike in anxiety. And anyone who knows about nardil will know why I'm doing that.

I'm still craving food like there's no tomorrow. I notice if I don't eat, I just get hungry and can then eat a snack that'll hold me over for the next 4 hours. But if I give in and start eating a lot, I can't stop. It's like the more I eat, the more I want to stuff my face and eat everything in the fridge, plus a whole jar of peanut butter. But if I just keep it to a small snack every 4 hours, I'm fine. I can't go to a bakery though; I'll lose my damn mind. I've managed to maintain a steady weight for the last 6 months, although it's been tough. I can't imagine treating myself to a rich chocolate cake or a large turtle sundae when I'm down to 45, while getting the deed done at the same time.


----------



## jtd1974

^^ Haha I hear you about the peanut butter bro. I always seem to end up spooning it out of the jar, tastes so good!!


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> Man, @V1bzz, I had no idea you were going through all that. That's scary as fugck! Glad you survived and made it through. Just the other day I watched a film on youtube, this guy was dying on the floor in his bathroom, curling up and blood coming out of his mouth, then died a few minutes later. So when you described your last couple months, I was thinking about those images. Damn, you def got me beat. Ha! I thought passing out in the middle of a store, or smacking my head full-speed on the pavement and getting a bloody face and black eye were the worst thing you could go through.
> 
> Interesting idea about putting nardil in tea. Hadn't thought of doing that. I'm still doing well on 60. There's been several nights where I fell asleep, woke up at 6am and realized I forgot to take 2 tablets the night before. Hasn't really bothered me though. I'm hoping in about a month from now, I can drop to 45 for a week without any spike in anxiety. And anyone who knows about nardil will know why I'm doing that.
> 
> I'm still craving food like there's no tomorrow. I notice if I don't eat, I just get hungry and can then eat a snack that'll hold me over for the next 4 hours. But if I give in and start eating a lot, I can't stop. It's like the more I eat, the more I want to stuff my face and eat everything in the fridge, plus a whole jar of peanut butter. But if I just keep it to a small snack every 4 hours, I'm fine. I can't go to a bakery though; I'll lose my damn mind. I've managed to maintain a steady weight for the last 6 months, although it's been tough. I can't imagine treating myself to a rich chocolate cake or a large turtle sundae when I'm down to 45, while getting the deed done at the same time.


Hey and thanks. Yeah the food cravings, what I had to do if force myself to stop buying the things I craved which I would demolish which would make me even fatter. Was hard at first but now those things don't interest me, at all.
The 45 mg in tea does work, I can easily tell you why i know and you will understand. At first I felt horny as heck and was fine doing the you know what. It was crazy for a week or 2, But now I can't again, this is how I know 45 mg in Tea is giving me the equivalent of 60 MG. Have tried, trust me haha. Sweating my arrrrse off, getting knackered arms then just having to concede feeling really annoyed and frustrated lol


----------



## jtd1974

^^ lol ... funny though, I can bust one out easily when I feel the need, and I'm on 90mg ... but I've been on it a while. In my experience, this stuff gets better with time.

So just be patient mate ... and look on the bright side ... at least you're getting a bit of an arm workout 🙂


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> ^^ lol ... funny though, I can bust one out easily when I feel the need, and I'm on 90mg ... but I've been on it a while. In my experience, this stuff gets better with time.
> 
> So just be patient mate ... and look on the bright side ... at least you're getting a bit of an arm workout &#128578;


Been on them about 2 and a half years LOL


----------



## V1bzz

Well my first post here about how i was feeling on them was *02-25-2017*


----------



## V1bzz

How is everyone getting on?

Me i'm going through the shakes thing again. it's so fleckin terrible and bad that it worries me if I have parkinsons!!!


----------



## jtd1974

I'm going OK thanks mate. Up and down with my moods, sometimes feel like s**t for no reason, but my anxiety is still pretty much gone. So I'm thankful for that :grin2:


----------



## WillComp

Hey, good to hear from you guys. Enjoy reading updates on how things are going. @V1bzz, I know what that shakiness is like. Man, does that suck! For me, atenolol has helped greatly in relieving the shakiness. If it wasn't for atenolol, I'd be shaking like a leaf every day and confident I had Parkinson's. Can't remember if you're on that or if you've given it a try. I'd def recommend it.

I'm also up and down with my moods like @jtd1974. If I get hit with something depressing, or start dwelling on self pity, I quickly begin to lose it. I never used to cry, but now it's becoming a habit. It's usually self induced, I feel like a serious basket case though. If someone disrespects me or if I dwell on my $hi++y childhood, I drop myself into this massive hell-hole. I've actually decided to make it a goal of mine to become more well put together, stop dwelling on negatives, and never let myself cry. And try to smile more. Could be tough but we'll see how it goes.

Still dealing with ed and an. Occasionally I can manage to stay hard during sex, but there's no sensitivy and haven't been able to finish. I've gone down to 30 for a week and didn't see a rise in libido or ability to finish. Same old worthless prick. It seems like just yesterday when I could come home on lunch break and finish the deed in 5 min. I had the highest libido of anyone I knew. Even when not horny, I could finish easily. Now 2.5 yrs later, thanks to Nardil, there's no sensitivity, no libido (although constantly checking out girls), and no possibility of climaxing. But yeah, can't dwell on that sczit. At least Nardil has demolished my sa. I'm just wondering how I can survive much longer with this side effect.


----------



## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> How is everyone getting on?
> 
> !


I'm good too mate, nardil still working well, every day, and none of those side things you lot talk about.

Still on amitriptyline for my elbow pain but take 50mg now instead of 75mg. Would like to stop ami I think but cant think of a decent alternative at the moment. May just stop it to see if pain comes back.


----------



## V1bzz

Sounds like we are all pretty much on the same journey!


----------



## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> I'm good too mate, nardil still working well, every day, and none of those side things you lot talk about.
> 
> Still on amitriptyline for my elbow pain but take 50mg now instead of 75mg. Would like to stop ami I think but cant think of a decent alternative at the moment. May just stop it to see if pain comes back.


Yeah i'm having problems with my ankle pain. pregab does get rid of it but i find when sitting with my legs on the chair that i get serious amounts of pain in my right ankle.

Not sure what to do really.


----------



## V1bzz

Ok, for the last week my mood has massively dropped, a feel paranoid and super anxious. It just so happens it coincides with something I have been taking for the last 5 months...BIOTIN!! 
I got it because it helps your hair grow back and thickens what you have and makes it healthier (it is working), it is also massively good for your skin. It makes my nails and hair, beard etc grow super fast.

Well it clicked a couple of days ago why my mood, paranoia and anxiety has got worse, it has to be because of this amazing product I will link to you now. Trust me on this guys. *TRY IT!* It is a 5 month supply.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Supplement-Collagen-Vitamin-Tablets-GUARANTEE/dp/B01H5914FS

Oh it has collagen in it and vitamin B summin....

Amazing the **** you find out on this Nardil journey. I didn't even know what it was doing to my mood until I ran out!


----------



## V1bzz

@D'avjo Nardil has ran out here now too, until december ffs. what are you now taking? @WillComp you guys having this problem in the US?


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> @*D'avjo* Nardil has ran out here now too, until december ffs. what are you now taking? @*WillComp* you guys having this problem in the US?


Here in Oz they're supposed to be supplying some imported Canadian Nardil during the shortage. Erfa brand. I'm hoping for a call back today.

The whole situation sucks


----------



## V1bzz

I got parnate today.


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> I got parnate today.


You switching over to Parnate mate? Or just during the Nardil shortage?


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> You switching over to Parnate mate? Or just during the Nardil shortage?


cos they have no nardil in the UK till December. it's nuts to walk in with 1 day of nardil dose left and them to tell me they couldn't get any. Then they go on to say tey want me to wean off nardil over the next two weeks then start Parnate. I'm like HOW???? I have no nardil do I! You have put me in a real bad situation here, thanks for that. I then went on to remind them that i had warned them about the possibility of it running out and that I had asked them to get me enough in ready for this, which they hadn't done.

Now i'm going through hell because of them.... i've had really bad night fevers since Friday, horrendous! really ill through the day then that **** at night. no sleep.

I'm hoping i'm just about through it now because I slept great last night. still feel like **** as i write this but not as bad.

I'm only on 20 mg, they are having a laugh if they think that is what i'm staying on. I will order more Friday leaving a note saying I need to go to 30 for a week then up to 40. then 50 then 60.

I remember last time the max dose of 60 mg was not an effective dose for me. it was good for work motivation but didn't help much with my anxiety and the worst part of my condition, the paranoia.

I'm hoping the fact that i have clonazzy and pregab will make a world of difference this time around and help keep the paranoia and anxiety at bay.

I went out with my parents on saturday day time and we had a few drinks and met people and i literally did not say much the whole time we were out. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I felt really ignorant, honestly just didn't want to talk to anyone! it was completely different from how i used to be, wanting to talk but not being able to.

I have 2 people coming round from a veteran mental health team and I am really not in the mood for it at all!


----------



## jtd1974

Yeah, same story here mate. My pharmacy has never stocked up for me. They only ever ordered enough Nardil in to fill each month's repeat script. I've been getting it from them since Feb last year, and I've told them it'll be a long-term thing, but they just wouldn't do it.

At least you've got hold of some Parnate. I've been told it's also unavailable here till god knows when. My only MAOI options if I run out of Nardil are selegeline or moclobemide.

I asked my pharmacist to ring the Nardil manufacturer here about getting some Canadian stock that's supposedly been imported for use during the shortage.

They told me it was due to arrive sometime this week, so I'm hoping for a call any day now.


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Yeah, same story here mate. My pharmacy has never stocked up for me. They only ever ordered enough Nardil in to fill each month's repeat script. I've been getting it from them since Feb last year, and I've told them it'll be a long-term thing, but they just wouldn't do it.
> 
> At least you've got hold of some Parnate. I've been told it's also unavailable here till god knows when. My only MAOI options if I run out of Nardil are selegeline or moclobemide.
> 
> I asked my pharmacist to ring the Nardil manufacturer here about getting some Canadian stock that's supposedly been imported for use during the shortage.
> 
> They told me it was due to arrive sometime this week, so I'm hoping for a call any day now.


good luck mate. going cold turkey on it is not fun!


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Yeah, same story here mate. My pharmacy has never stocked up for me. They only ever ordered enough Nardil in to fill each month's repeat script. I've been getting it from them since Feb last year, and I've told them it'll be a long-term thing, but they just wouldn't do it.
> 
> At least you've got hold of some Parnate. I've been told it's also unavailable here till god knows when. My only MAOI options if I run out of Nardil are selegeline or moclobemide.
> 
> I asked my pharmacist to ring the Nardil manufacturer here about getting some Canadian stock that's supposedly been imported for use during the shortage.
> 
> They told me it was due to arrive sometime this week, so I'm hoping for a call any day now.


any joy? can you not try parnate for a bit?


----------



## V1bzz

ok, quick update on me. the hellish days are over woohoo, only felt like i was going to die for 5 days lol. so so sick.

Today I went up to 30 mg, also took a pregabalin and a clonazepam and I've got to say, I feel pretty damn good!

I have massive intense hypo-tension, possibly hypertension (waiting on a new BP monitor) and of course the horrible muscle fatigue that goes with it.

all in all that cold turkey change was worth it. looking forward to the 30 kicking in. this combo i'm on may just be a winner for me, fingers crossed!!

Last time i took parnate i didnt have pregab or clonazzy and my anxiety and paranoia sucked on parnate.

so far so good with this stack! =)))


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> any joy? can you not try parnate for a bit?


I would go for Parnate mate, but I think that's just as hard to get hold of at the moment here in Australia.

I might ask my psych about it, though. I'm more interested after reading your other post ... I've got clonazepam and pregabalin too ... sounds like a decent combo &#128578;


----------



## V1bzz

karenw said:


> 2393 posts wow


In this thread?


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> I would go for Parnate mate, but I think that's just as hard to get hold of at the moment here in Australia.
> 
> I might ask my psych about it, though. I'm more interested after reading your other post ... I've got clonazepam and pregabalin too ... sounds like a decent combo &#128578;


Yeah, feels like it may work. its my mums bday so we are going to the pub. good way to test it. still not sure about drinking on parnate. will see how it makes me feel. had some last saturday and felt really bad. made myself puke when i got home. But of course i was going through massive withdrawals then....oh my pot belly has just about gone :grin2:


----------



## WillComp

There's no shortage of Nardil that I know of here in the US. I'm still able to get the Gavis brand every month. I've gone down to 60mg for about 4 months now, and I've noticed it's not quite as effective as 75mg. I can really tell the difference. And I have the same side effects - fatigue and anorgasmia. The only reason I reduced was because of the cost. It's still ok but not perfect. If any situation at work increases my SA level, I'll have to raise my dose to 75 again.

Every time I dwell on the fact that I still have ano after 2 1/2 years, I get a bit depressed, but if I can block that out and not think about it, I'm ok. It's such a major bummer.

Good to hear you're getting along with Parnate now a days, @V1bzz. I've never tried Parnate. How does it compare to Nardil?

If we never have a shortage here in the US, I believe I'll be on some dose of Nardil or Parnate for the rest of my life. And that thought makes me feel great. Despite the rough journey in the last 2 1/2 years, I absolutely love Nardil!


----------



## jtd1974

WillComp said:


> If we never have a shortage here in the US, I believe I'll be on some dose of Nardil or Parnate for the rest of my life. And that thought makes me feel great. Despite the rough journey in the last 2 1/2 years, I absolutely love Nardil!


I feel the same! Life is so much better without SA getting in the way. All the side-effects fade in comparison.

I'm similar to you in that when I reduce the dose I can feel Nardil isn't working quite so well. My sweet spot is 90mg, which unfortunately makes the sexual side-effects quite noticeable. This does seem to be gradually improving as time goes by, though.


----------



## V1bzz

WillComp said:


> There's no shortage of Nardil that I know of here in the US. I'm still able to get the Gavis brand every month. I've gone down to 60mg for about 4 months now, and I've noticed it's not quite as effective as 75mg. I can really tell the difference. And I have the same side effects - fatigue and anorgasmia. The only reason I reduced was because of the cost. It's still ok but not perfect. If any situation at work increases my SA level, I'll have to raise my dose to 75 again.
> 
> Every time I dwell on the fact that I still have ano after 2 1/2 years, I get a bit depressed, but if I can block that out and not think about it, I'm ok. It's such a major bummer.
> 
> Good to hear you're getting along with Parnate now a days, @V1bzz. I've never tried Parnate. How does it compare to Nardil?
> 
> If we never have a shortage here in the US, I believe I'll be on some dose of Nardil or Parnate for the rest of my life. And that thought makes me feel great. Despite the rough journey in the last 2 1/2 years, I absolutely love Nardil!


Mate I was taking 90 mg when i was homeless and i felt pretty much ****ing awesome every single day. super positive and motivated. I must have been the only fat homeless person in my city though LOL!

If only it wasnt for the weigh gain i would love to be on 90 mg nardil. for the rest of my life if i have to. it was awesome!

I'm on 30mg of parnate now. only been on it two weeks tomorrow so a ways to go yet. I'm currently just feeling abit gross during the day, not wanting to go out and such and I have massive hypo-tension. I'm going to let it settle down before I move up to 40 mg. I can hardly stand up for a bloody minute without having to drop to the ground.

I really miss that 90 mg nardil feeling. it was a great dose for me!

hope everyone else is doing fine.


----------



## V1bzz

OMG everyone needs to read this!!!

https://www.anxiety.org/stellate-ganglion-block-sgb-for-ptsd-research-update
PTSD is basically panic attacks, depression, anxiety.

This is a life changer!!!
@WillComp @jtd1974 @Tandorini @D'avjo @Everyone


----------



## V1bzz

Kyowa Kirin are the sole supplier of phenelzine tablets in the UK. They are out of stock until March 2020. 

I really can't believe this, parnate is not helping me at all ='(


----------



## jtd1974

@V1bzz, it's the same here in Australia, out of stock till March. But thankfully the manufacturer, Link, has made arrangements for imported Canadian Nardil to be supplied during the shortage.

Has no alternative supply been organised in the UK? It's totally wrong that you've had to come off a med that was working and switch to another that isn't doing it for you.

Have you thought about ordering from an online pharmacy? There seem to be a few Canadian ones that seem legit. I've never tried it, but if you've got a script for Nardil I can't see why it wouldn't be possible. Desperate times and all that.


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> @V1bzz, it's the same here in Australia, out of stock till March. But thankfully the manufacturer, Link, has made arrangements for imported Canadian Nardil to be supplied during the shortage.
> 
> Has no alternative supply been organised in the UK? It's totally wrong that you've had to come off a med that was working and switch to another that isn't doing it for you.
> 
> Have you thought about ordering from an online pharmacy? There seem to be a few Canadian ones that seem legit. I've never tried it, but if you've got a script for Nardil I can't see why it wouldn't be possible. Desperate times and all that.


I will give it a try. cheers


----------



## jtd1974

No worries.

It seems you may be able to get hold of imported Nardil in the UK, similar to the situation here in Oz.

Check this: https://psnc.org.uk/our-news/shortage-notice-nardil-phenelzine-sulfate-15mg-tablets/

I had to get on the front foot and push my pharmacist to order the Canadian pills. If I hadn't asked them to, I don't think they would've thought to do it themselves.


----------



## V1bzz

Hey, yeah i tried to show them that page and list and the lead pharmacist wasn't interested. I think I will make a complaint to the NHS about them when I am feeling better.


----------



## jtd1974

Tbh I'm not surprised mate. Some of these f***ing pharmacists are lazy c***s. They just don't want to go out of their way to help.

Kind of related, I've heard people are having problems getting hold of moclobemide in the UK at the moment too. Hope it isn't a sign the production of MAOIs is being wound down. It's strange a few of them are in short supply at the same time. Could be the raw materials are scarce, it's hard to know.

The drug companies aren't exactly transparent in their practices. They don't give out details about this kind of thing. 

It's probably all down to cash and profits, or lack of, when it comes to the lesser-used drugs 😞


----------



## V1bzz

Guys i've finally managed to source some Phenelzine woohoo. I'm actually very chuffed as they have got me Pfizer Nardil from the US.

It's orange in colour (uk ones are red) and it doesn't need to be kept in the fridge, which is great because i never put it in the fridge anyway, i think tha'ts just bullsh11t to make them last longer before the chemicals start to breakdown. A month aint going to do that.

Anyhoo, just happy. I've been so sick since they ran out here and looking forward to feeling better again. I've literally left my apartment 5 times in the last 4 months. I sh11t you not!!

Mine are exactly the same as the ones pictured in the phenelzine wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenelzine
@WillComp @jtd1974 @Tandorini @D'avjo


----------



## jtd1974

Hey, glad to hear you finally got hold of some, mate 

I've got those orange pills, too. To me they feel a bit different to the red ones that have to be refrigerated. I wouldn't say worse, just a bit different.

I noticed it more when I first made the switch to the different pills (mine are from Canada). But to be honest I'm just glad to still be able to get Nardil.

I'd be interested to hear if you notice any difference, @*V1bzz*


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Hey, glad to hear you finally got hold of some, mate
> 
> I've got those orange pills, too. To me they feel a bit different to the red ones that have to be refrigerated. I wouldn't say worse, just a bit different.
> 
> I noticed it more when I first made the switch to the different pills (mine are from Canada). But to be honest I'm just glad to still be able to get Nardil.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear if you notice any difference, @*V1bzz*


I will keep you updated. I'm still feeling just really sick at the moment. I'm worried I damaged something being forced to cold turkey 75 mg Nardil when they ran out. I have not felt right since.
I'm hoping its just withdraws from the parnate still but it's hitting close to two weeks of taking none and I did a slow withdraw. Felt absolutely terrible on them too! Which I did not the first time I did parnate,

If i'm still sick in a week I think a visit to the doctors will be in order!!


----------



## WillComp

Hey @V1bzz, good to hear from you and glad you got the orange Nardil that you don't have to keep in the fridge. That's the kind I've been taking since Apr 17. I'm currently on 60, down from 90, then 75. After the New Year I'm planning to drop to 45. I'm curious how I'll feel on that. January is usually the least stressful month of the year, hardly any SA provoking events. So I think I'll be fine. I finally lost weight too. Things are going well with the @WillComp -ster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cmalo

I also had Anorgasmia when on Nardil, very frustrating, very hard to reach orgasm from 60mg nardil and impossible on 75mg and 90mg 

Cabergoline solved it for like 95% , could finally get orgasm again, and sometimes even multiple times a day, which was a wonder while being on Nardil 90mg


----------



## jtd1974

@WillComp, try not to assume the worst &#128521;

Do you take vitamin B12? Nardil is supposed to deplete it, which could cause anaemia.


----------



## WillComp

@jtd2974, thanks for your post!

With regard to B12, No I don't take that or any vitamins at all. I read on Phenelzine's Wikipedia page that it depletes b6. It didn't mention b12.

Do you take either of these and do you feel they give you more energy/less nodding off? I wasn't sure what to get so I just picked up men's one a day multivitamin which has 6 and 12. I stopped taking multivitamins about 4 years ago.


----------



## jtd1974

@WillComp, my bad - it is indeed B6, not B12.

I take B12 daily because I have Crohn's disease, and my levels tend to be low. I also take a B complex about twice a week because it's supposed to be bad to take high amounts of B12 alone.

I'm not sure it gives me more energy. It's just a habit I've got into. Lately I've been feeling pretty tired most days, struggling from coffee to coffee in the mornings and afternoons.

Like I said, try not to worry unnecessarily until you know more. It will just make you feel worse. I know it's hard, though.

Hopefully whatever the problem is, it's something that's easily fixed.

Keep us posted mate &#128521;


----------



## V1bzz

Hey all. I've been on 45 mg since the 10th December so still waiting for that dose to kick in. I had to have a CT scan cos of the constant headaches but I am starting to feel a bit better now. I have lost a lot of weight and weirdly Nardil isn't making me put on weight this time. I used to put about a stone on for each 15 mg. I am looking too bloody skinny now though, I think I weigh just over 11 stone. A massive difference from the 13 stone I was before.
I also feel like maybe this different Nardil is more effective than my old red ones. It's hard to tell cos I also stopped drinking alcohol for many months because I felt so ill and I know drinking too much stops Nardil from working properly, well any antidepressant.
If the weight stays down I may go up to 60 mg in a month or so. I have taken it really slow this time in increasing my dose. I also don't take them all in one go like I used to. I take two at 0800 and then 1 at 1300.

Please keep us updated about what is happening with you all. I wonder how the others are doing who haven't posted in a while. I am quite worried about @Tandorini and @watertouch

Happy new year all. Oh, no problems with anorgasmia yet for me. I'm not even getting constipated yet. Oh, also no hypotension either.


----------



## Tandorini

@V1bzz hey, thanks for checking up on me. Actually, in this case, no news has been good news. It's been a year since I did another round of intensive group therapy, and nearly a year since I went back to work. I have been doing quite well.

I am extremely relieved to be off Nardil for good. I'm on Fluoxetine and Seroquel still, and they work for me. I'm also in therapy once a week, more of a long term thing, I guess.

So yeah, I just haven't had the need to search the internet for answers to everything for a while. Should have thought to check in here once in a while to let everyone know I was okay, though.

I am glad to read you're doing better also, allthough I only read that one last post you wrote, so I am not up to date on how things have been since we last spoke.


----------



## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> @V1bzz hey, thanks for checking up on me. Actually, in this case, no news has been good news. It's been a year since I did another round of intensive group therapy, and nearly a year since I went back to work. I have been doing quite well.
> 
> I am extremely relieved to be off Nardil for good. I'm on Fluoxetine and Seroquel still, and they work for me. I'm also in therapy once a week, more of a long term thing, I guess.
> 
> So yeah, I just haven't had the need to search the internet for answers to everything for a while. Should have thought to check in here once in a while to let everyone know I was okay, though.
> 
> I am glad to read you're doing better also, allthough I only read that one last post you wrote, so I am not up to date on how things have been since we last spoke.


Ah that's great news, glad things are working out for you =)))


----------



## V1bzz

Update on this yank Nardil...it is defo stronger than the UK one, I think it has something to do with the outer shell of the pill. The UK ones have a rock hard outer shell and US ones don't.
I get the same effects being on 45mg US version as I do maybe 60mg or more UK version.

The biggest giveaway is that I can't shoot my load, even on 45 haha


----------



## jtd1974

V1bzz said:


> Update on this yank Nardil...it is defo stronger than the UK one, I think it has something to do with the outer shell of the pill. The UK ones have a rock hard outer shell and US ones don't.
> I get the same effects being on 45mg US version as I do maybe 60mg or more UK version.
> 
> The biggest giveaway is that I can't shoot my load, even on 45 haha


Good to hear from you man : )

Is it the Canadian Erfa brand you're taking?

I'm on it, and have stuck to my 90mg dose. Hard to say if it's much different.

One thing with this stuff is I've had a couple of dodgy episodes where I've had a splitting headache and racing heart, and have been sweating profusely. Not nice.

I'm careful with what I eat, so not sure what caused it. One time it might have been some jam that was a few weeks old.

Maybe I'll try dividing the dose instead of taking all together in the morning.


----------



## V1bzz

jtd1974 said:


> Good to hear from you man : )
> 
> Is it the Canadian Erfa brand you're taking?
> 
> I'm on it, and have stuck to my 90mg dose. Hard to say if it's much different.
> 
> One thing with this stuff is I've had a couple of dodgy episodes where I've had a splitting headache and racing heart, and have been sweating profusely. Not nice.
> 
> I'm careful with what I eat, so not sure what caused it. One time it might have been some jam that was a few weeks old.
> 
> Maybe I'll try dividing the dose instead of taking all together in the morning.


Hey, yeah thats what be a bit different too as i used to take 7 pills first thing in the morning and now i wait until four hours have passed before taking second dose.
It's the Pfizer one i've got, it's orange with no outer shell.

I think for mr you know what to work again I would need to drop to 30mg. I'm really tempted to go up to 60 mg now just to see what that feels like. Nardil just feels like its working better for me now than it ever has. Could be my body just accepting it now or cos it's better from pfizer. who knows.

Oh, I have funny days too, like the last few days i have woke with a banging headache and feeling like i can't be bothered to do anything.
Really hate this feeling extremely horny and not being able to do anything about it, especially when all I am thinking about is tits and ***** >


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

V1bzz said:


> Hey, yeah thats what be a bit different too as i used to take 7 pills first thing in the morning and now i wait until four hours have passed before taking second dose.
> It's the Pfizer one i've got, it's orange with no outer shell.
> 
> I think for mr you know what to work again I would need to drop to 30mg. I'm really tempted to go up to 60 mg now just to see what that feels like. Nardil just feels like its working better for me now than it ever has. Could be my body just accepting it now or cos it's better from pfizer. who knows.
> 
> Oh, I have funny days too, like the last few days i have woke with a banging headache and feeling like i can't be bothered to do anything.
> Really hate this feeling extremely horny and not being able to do anything about it, especially when all I am thinking about is tits and ***** >


Yeah its hard to deal with but its a sacrafice you gotta make. 90mg's is the highest you can go and has great benefits to go with it, but some hard side effects to suffer with too. I stopped taking nardil because of the food restrictions and I mostly feel OK around people now and feel I've mostly overcome my SA. I don't take any medication at all now. For some reason Nardil didn't work for me so that's another reason I stoped taking it. I am taking Paliperidone and I am stuck on it, doctor wont let me stop taking it.


----------



## V1bzz

CaptainPeanuts said:


> Yeah its hard to deal with but its a sacrafice you gotta make. 90mg's is the highest you can go and has great benefits to go with it, but some hard side effects to suffer with too. I stopped taking nardil because of the food restrictions and I mostly feel OK around people now and feel I've mostly overcome my SA. I don't take any medication at all now. For some reason Nardil didn't work for me so that's another reason I stoped taking it. I am taking Paliperidone and I am stuck on it, doctor wont let me stop taking it.


Yeah, I've been on 90 mg before, Felt really really positive even though it was shortly after a mental breakdown and I was living on the streets. I think you can't just give up on Nardil. It's been 3 years I've been on it and every time I have stopped to give my body a rest or try something else it seems to just work a little bit better. I'm treatment resistant so I guess I'm starting to win this battle because I refuse to give up on Nardil.


----------



## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> Yeah, I've been on 90 mg before, Felt really really positive even though it was shortly after a mental breakdown and I was living on the streets. I think you can't just give up on Nardil. It's been 3 years I've been on it and every time I have stopped to give my body a rest or try something else it seems to just work a little bit better. I'm treatment resistant so I guess I'm starting to win this battle because I refuse to give up on Nardil.


You good fella? Getting your nardil refills alright?


----------



## CaptainPeanuts

V1bzz said:


> Yeah, I've been on 90 mg before, Felt really really positive even though it was shortly after a mental breakdown and I was living on the streets. I think you can't just give up on Nardil. It's been 3 years I've been on it and every time I have stopped to give my body a rest or try something else it seems to just work a little bit better. I'm treatment resistant so I guess I'm starting to win this battle because I refuse to give up on Nardil.


The doctor I have is arrogant. I am stuck on taking paliperidone by injection and he wont let me off the drug. I think this drug is what made Nardil not work at all, mixing drugs is not a good idea. Changing doctors is impossible, I'm stuck with this *******.

Glad to hear that you think Nardil is great. I won't give up, but for now I just can't change doctors.


----------



## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> You good fella? Getting your nardil refills alright?


Hey mate, yeah everything's all sorted now and have no trouble getting meds. They get them from Pfizer and take about a week to arrive.

I'm getting the SGB (stellate ganglion block) done at the end of March, the things I've read about it from people that have had it done and studies and it's looking like it will completely change my life. It resets the brain to pre-trauma state killing off the new brain cells that grew that makes you feel anxious, depressed, paranoid etc etc....Kinda poo'ing my pants and really nervous but that's because I can't remember what it feels like to 'feel normal'


----------



## V1bzz

CaptainPeanuts said:


> The doctor I have is arrogant. I am stuck on taking paliperidone by injection and he wont let me off the drug. I think this drug is what made Nardil not work at all, mixing drugs is not a good idea. Changing doctors is impossible, I'm stuck with this *******.
> 
> Glad to hear that you think Nardil is great. I won't give up, but for now I just can't change doctors.


I'm studying at the moment and getting good qualifications in mental health and I can tell you for a fact that what he is doing is against the law, all over the world. He cannot force you to take something you don't want to take. Tell him that you want to go back on Nardil and stop taking Paliperidone or you will prosecute him for breaking the...
*
Mental health act 1983 (amended 2007)* - You are legally allowed to make your own decision unless sectioned.

*The mental capacity act* - This means you can make your own decisions about what treatment you have and a health professional has to support your wishes.

*The Equality Act 2010* - You are protected by law because of your disability and a local authority (Doctor, hospital etc) can not discriminate against you and should listen to your wishes or concerns and should encourage equality.

*Human Rights Act 1998* - Basically means it's your life and you can make your own decisions about it.

*Mental Capacity Act (MCA) 2005* - Everyone will be assumed to have capacity to make decisions about their health and treatment unless an assessment has concluded that this is not the case.

You should contact either your health ombudsman or write see if your doctor surgery has a website and write a complaint because what your doctor is doing is seriously illegal!
Also, you have the right to change doctors when you bloody want and as many times as you want if they are not giving you the help you need.
Tell the idiot you want a referral to see a Psychiatrist because you aren't getting the help that you need.


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## CaptainPeanuts

V1bzz said:


> I'm studying at the moment and getting good qualifications in mental health and I can tell you for a fact that what he is doing is against the law, all over the world. He cannot force you to take something you don't want to take. Tell him that you want to go back on Nardil and stop taking Paliperidone or you will prosecute him for breaking the...
> *
> Mental health act 1983 (amended 2007)* - You are legally allowed to make your own decision unless sectioned.
> 
> *The mental capacity act* - This means you can make your own decisions about what treatment you have and a health professional has to support your wishes.
> 
> *The Equality Act 2010* - You are protected by law because of your disability and a local authority (Doctor, hospital etc) can not discriminate against you and should listen to your wishes or concerns and should encourage equality.
> 
> *Human Rights Act 1998* - Basically means it's your life and you can make your own decisions about it.
> 
> *Mental Capacity Act (MCA) 2005* - Everyone will be assumed to have capacity to make decisions about their health and treatment unless an assessment has concluded that this is not the case.
> 
> You should contact either your health ombudsman or write see if your doctor surgery has a website and write a complaint because what your doctor is doing is seriously illegal!
> Also, you have the right to change doctors when you bloody want and as many times as you want if they are not giving you the help you need.
> Tell the idiot you want a referral to see a Psychiatrist because you aren't getting the help that you need.


That's good to know, i didnt know my rights to begin with. Thanks man


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## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> Hey mate, yeah everything's all sorted now and have no trouble getting meds. They get them from Pfizer and take about a week to arrive.
> 
> I'm getting the SGB (stellate ganglion block) done at the end of March, the things I've read about it from people that have had it done and studies and it's looking like it will completely change my life. It resets the brain to pre-trauma state killing off the new brain cells that grew that makes you feel anxious, depressed, paranoid etc etc....Kinda poo'ing my pants and really nervous but that's because I can't remember what it feels like to 'feel normal'


Thats good mate, you gotta pay for it or nhs stumping up ?


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## V1bzz

CaptainPeanuts said:


> That's good to know, i didnt know my rights to begin with. Thanks man


No problem, it's these idiot doctors that made me want to learn the stuff im studying. I got pissed off with them doing whatever the fluck they feel like doing.

At the moment my doctor won't give me any more than 45mg Nardil, i said, look, it ain't my fault they ran out in the UK. my psychiatrist said I need to be on 75 mg.

Put in my prescription and they still only prescribed me 45 a day.
I could blow my lid and sort them out but i'm thinking, whats the point, im getting an op in 4 or 5 weeks. If it doesnt work then i will kick the fluck off big time.

They are not allowed to do whatever the fluck they want, their job is to support you. not tell you what you are doing. ****ing scum bags.

I get a bit angry at this **** because I've had to fight sooooo many battles to get my meds given to me. it is ridiculous.

You just have to know your rights and slam dunk it down their idiot throats.
Doctors are not mental health professionals!!


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## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> Thats good mate, you gotta pay for it or nhs stumping up ?


Na I ain't paying sh11t mate. NHS is paying.

I will have the qualifications soon to go in and TELL me doctor, oi dickhead, I need to be on this dose. I'm the qualified mental health professional, you are a GP..the cop-out doctor cos your **** and probably barely scraped through your training and could only become a gp. loser!


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## WillComp

V1bzz said:


> No problem, it's these idiot doctors that made me want to learn the stuff im studying. I got pissed off with them doing whatever the fluck they feel like doing.
> 
> At the moment my doctor won't give me any more than 45mg Nardil, i said, look, it ain't my fault they ran out in the UK. my psychiatrist said I need to be on 75 mg.
> 
> Put in my prescription and they still only prescribed me 45 a day.
> I could blow my lid and sort them out but i'm thinking, whats the point, im getting an op in 4 or 5 weeks. If it doesnt work then i will kick the fluck off big time.
> 
> They are not allowed to do whatever the fluck they want, their job is to support you. not tell you what you are doing. ****ing scum bags.
> 
> I get a bit angry at this **** because I've had to fight sooooo many battles to get my meds given to me. it is ridiculous.
> 
> You just have to know your rights and slam dunk it down their idiot throats.
> Doctors are not mental health professionals!!


I've never heard of that operation, stellate ganglion block. You'll have to keep us updated on how it went. If it works for you, I might give it a try too.

I'm back at work and kind of struggling again. I'm on 45mg at the moment.. been at 45 for 3 months. I'm beginning to gain weight (182 lb or 13 stone) so I think that's why it's not working. When I was down at 170 lb, I felt great. Nardil at 45 was actually working. I'm finding it so hard to lose weight. How do you guys do it?

I just had a meeting at work, I wasn't called on, but all that anxiety I felt during the meeting triggered some serious SA. Now I'm feeling like crap. I can't go on like this, it sucks. I can't concentrate anymore, this sh** is seriously debilitating. Plus I've been through a lot in the last 3 months. I was sure I was about to die from cancer. Fortunately it was cured during surgery, but all I went through sort of f'd me up mentally.

I need a job mowing grass on a giant farm, alone on a riding lawnmower with my earbuds on. I feel I deserve some stress-free years ahead. This definitely isn't easy.


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## V1bzz

Of course, I will keep everyone updated. Mate you gotta just try and keep your chin up. You have had a scare that even a person without mental illness would struggle with. I still feel paranoid and anxious, my legs hurt like ffuuck and now have a big *** lump on the back of my leg as well as really bad water retention (I can push my finger in about an inch and there's a hole when I lift my finger which stays there for ages.

Mate, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get rid of the horrible Nardil fat belly, I work out every week, do ab rolls and my stomach is still flubby, it really p11sses me off big time.

It may take 2 or 3 injections before I get full relief from the SGB but for some people, 1 injection is enough. To be honest I will be over the moon with it just allowing me to go out and not feel like an ugly trembling paranoid piece of sh111it.

My op is 2 weeks today on the 25th/03/2020, I'm nervous as hell lol...I will check in here a couple of days hopefully with some fantastic news to give you all!


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## D'avjo

V1bzz said:


> Of course, I will keep everyone updated. Mate you gotta just try and keep your chin up. You have had a scare that even a person without mental illness would struggle with. I still feel paranoid and anxious, my legs hurt like ffuuck and now have a big *** lump on the back of my leg as well as really bad water retention (I can push my finger in about an inch and there's a hole when I lift my finger which stays there for ages.
> 
> Mate, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get rid of the horrible Nardil fat belly, I work out every week, do ab rolls and my stomach is still flubby, it really p11sses me off big time.
> 
> It may take 2 or 3 injections before I get full relief from the SGB but for some people, 1 injection is enough. To be honest I will be over the moon with it just allowing me to go out and not feel like an ugly trembling paranoid piece of sh111it.
> 
> My op is 2 weeks today on the 25th/03/2020, I'm nervous as hell lol...I will check in here a couple of days hopefully with some fantastic news to give you all!


Good luck with it mate, and yeah, hoping to hear fantastic news from you


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Of course, I will keep everyone updated. Mate you gotta just try and keep your chin up. You have had a scare that even a person without mental illness would struggle with. I still feel paranoid and anxious, my legs hurt like ffuuck and now have a big *** lump on the back of my leg as well as really bad water retention (I can push my finger in about an inch and there's a hole when I lift my finger which stays there for ages.
> 
> Mate, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get rid of the horrible Nardil fat belly, I work out every week, do ab rolls and my stomach is still flubby, it really p11sses me off big time.
> 
> It may take 2 or 3 injections before I get full relief from the SGB but for some people, 1 injection is enough. To be honest I will be over the moon with it just allowing me to go out and not feel like an ugly trembling paranoid piece of sh111it.
> 
> My op is 2 weeks today on the 25th/03/2020, I'm nervous as hell lol...I will check in here a couple of days hopefully with some fantastic news to give you all!


I never heard of that either. But good luck to you, hope it works out for you.

I'm still making progress, still seeing my psychiatrist once a week (had to miss out today because of the corona situation which is quite bad around here), still on my ssri. Happy to be staying far away from Nardil.

Lots of pressure at work at the moment, but I'm handling it okay for now. Might have to take on some night shifts, not sure that will be great for my mental health. And I wouldn't really know what to do with the Seroquel those nights. But hey, I'll decide if the problem comes up.


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## V1bzz

D'avjo said:


> Good luck with it mate, and yeah, hoping to hear fantastic news from you


Cheers buddy. This op is supposed to reset your brain to pre-trauma state, like a computer reboot as they suggest.

I'm worrying because I am treatment-resistant but this is a totally different thing were talking about here.
Will pop in a couple of days after, i might be feeling ****ty for a couple of days because i won't be able to speak and do everyone's heads in lol >

By the way, I came across information through one of my courses that MAOI's and anti-psychotic meds give you Parkinsons type symptoms. 
I was honestly super worried about why my hands shook so much but feel a bit more at piece about it now.


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## V1bzz

Tandorini said:


> I never heard of that either. But good luck to you, hope it works out for you.
> 
> I'm still making progress, still seeing my psychiatrist once a week (had to miss out today because of the corona situation which is quite bad around here), still on my ssri. Happy to be staying far away from Nardil.
> 
> Lots of pressure at work at the moment, but I'm handling it okay for now. Might have to take on some night shifts, not sure that will be great for my mental health. And I wouldn't really know what to do with the Seroquel those nights. But hey, I'll decide if the problem comes up.


Hey, glad to see you are doing ok. I would suggest not to mess about with your set routine too much as it does have a big impact on mental health.

To cope and control mental health problems you need to have set routines (for now)

(flipping ark at me, mr now mental health trained snob haha)


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## Tandorini

V1bzz said:


> Hey, glad to see you are doing ok. I would suggest not to mess about with your set routine too much as it does have a big impact on mental health.
> 
> To cope and control mental health problems you need to have set routines (for now)
> 
> (flipping ark at me, mr now mental health trained snob haha)


I'm usually quite compliant with my routines, but being a health professional and given the corona situation in my country I might have to make some sacrifices. I don't really wanna tell too many people that "no, I can't cover that shift, it messes with my antipsychotic medication", even though I bet that would get me outta a few situations.


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## WillComp

Good to hear from some of the regulars lately. Hope you're all handling the "social distancing" ok. LOL. I can't remember a time when I was this calm and full of relief. Of course my heart goes out to everyone who's been impacted and hope we can contain this virus sooner than later, but for me personally I desperately needed this break since I'm still recovering from cancer surgery. I get to work from home indefinitely until the coronavirus is contained. Anyone else getting to work from home, and how's that going for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tandorini

WillComp said:


> Good to hear from some of the regulars lately. Hope you're all handling the "social distancing" ok. LOL. I can't remember a time when I was this calm and full of relief. Of course my heart goes out to everyone who's been impacted and hope we can contain this virus sooner than later, but for me personally I desperately needed this break since I'm still recovering from cancer surgery. I get to work from home indefinitely until the coronavirus is contained. Anyone else getting to work from home, and how's that going for you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good to hear that you're feeling better, and that your job is safe. It's the time of the introverts, I guess!

Myself, I never struggled with social anxiety, it was depression and my treatment with Nardil that brought me onto this forum a few years back. For me, it's definitely not good being on my own for most of the time. I am "lucky" to still be able to go in to work, so I am not alone all the time.


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## jtd1974

Yeah, being cooped up at home without much to do definitely isn't good. 

I've lost most of my work hours; I'm down to a couple of shifts a week. 

It's only been a week since the shutdown here and I'm already struggling. Christ knows what I'll do if this goes on for months. 

I've got to find another job quickly, before my confidence crumbles any more :/ 

Adding to the stress is the ongoing Nardil shortage, and the uncertainty about how long it will drag on for; or, for that matter, whether it will actually be resolved.

The distributor here in Australia is saying they've only got a few weeks' worth left of imported US stock and can't guarantee an ongoing supply.

I'm having to think seriously about WTF I'll do if/when I run out. The obvious choice would be Parnate. But I really don't want to - I'm perfectly happy with Nardil - and why should I have to?

F**k these drug companies and their bull***t


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