# 2010 World Cup



## PHD in Ebonics

My personal favorite and arguably the greatest tournament in the world will start in 2 weeks!!

Thoughts, predictions?


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## Canadian Brotha

Despite the controversy this year I am a traditional supporter of the French so if they can get things together I'll be cheering for them. Also The Netherlands is another team I would enjoy to see win it all.

In terms of general cheering, I'll being rooting for all African teams to do well & Ghana in particular since that's my heritage. I hope at least one of them has a good run. Also the Asian teams, Japan, Korea, I hope one of them proves shocking & goes far as well


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## thesilenthunter90

Brazil will win, end of.


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## thesilenthunter90

StarryMessenger said:


> Kind of disappointed to see Pato, Diego, Adriano, and especially Ronaldinho missing from the team. I think Dunga probably sees Ronaldinho as a disruptive influence but there's no doubting his ability and excitement he brings.
> 
> I got a feeling France is going to win. They have a decent team, their group is rather easy, and they will have no pressure on them since they are not favoured at all.


Yeah but france should not even be there at all....ooooo controversial


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## CopadoMexicano

GO USA! :banana


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## Micronian

I'm cheering for honduras. They're a small team, have been together for a number of years. I hope they get to the 2nd round.

Other than that, I go for the South American teams generally (as that's where I was born) even Brazil, but to a lesser extent.


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## kosherpiggy

I really wish Turkey was in the Cup. :/. I'm rooting for Germany and Brazil :]] !


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## redtogo72

I can't wait for this to start. I'll be rooting for USA.  I'm only a casual fan; I can't even tell you the name of one soccer player for any team. 

As a casual fan, one bad thing I dislike about soccer is the yellow and red card penalty system, that players could be out for even the following game! We come to watch the players play, not the referees that may fall for players flopping penalizing players and hurting their teams chances of winning.


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## PHD in Ebonics

I'm sorry, but the card and penalty systems are fine as they are. You can't make such radical changes in the game just so that it appeals more to Americans...:b

And by that same token, you can't have flags being thrown into the field if a manager disagrees with the call. If that was to happen, then next thing you know, they'd want to cut to commercial while the ref leaves the pitch to check the instant replay.

Some people argue that the controversy in the calls/results is what makes the game so great. I personally have nothing against instant replay, but no way in hell should the referee nor anyone else be leaving the pitch to watch video replay; the only way this could be done would be to get someone sitting from a box to watch it and tell the ref via microphone (refs and linesmen already use this form of communication).

I can't believe Maradona didn't include Zanetti or Cambiasso in the World Cup list!

Oh and as much as I'd like Italy to win the tournament, that's very unlikely, and it's even more unlikely for the US to get far in this tournament. I hate to say it, but I don't think they will get out of that group. Slovakia is really underrated.

I think the champion will be either Spain or Ivory Coast.


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## PGVan

redtogo72 said:


> I can't wait for this to start. I'll be rooting for USA.  I'm only a casual fan; I can't even tell you the name of one soccer player for any team.
> 
> As a casual fan, one bad thing I dislike about soccer is the yellow and red card penalty system, that players could be out for even the following game! We come to watch the players play, not the referees that may fall for players flopping penalizing players and hurting their teams chances of winning.


While I agree FIFA has a problem with diving that they have yet to succeed in taking care of, referees at the World Cup level usually are pretty good in using their judgment with the cards. Take the Champions League Final for example. Howard Webb gave Chivu a yellow card for a tackle on Robben that wasn't so bad, but still a bit reckless. It was also Chivu's 3rd reckless tackle, so he needed to be cautioned. That is part of how the system works. Webb did a fantastic job calling the match and took out the yellow card when it served a purpose. That's the quality of referees you will see at the World Cup.



StarryMessenger said:


> What I dislike about soccer is the penalty system. I think a penalty for a foul or handball in the box is way too harsh. Penalties almost certainly lead to goals and in many cases, the player fouled wasn't even close to scoring in the first place.
> 
> Another thing is that I think there should be video replays in soccer. Some referee decisions are absolutely shocking, especially in cases which involves penalties, or whether the ball has crossed the line.
> 
> Critics say video replays disrupt the flow of the game. What I suggest is that soccer adopt the system currently used in tennis, whereby each team has 3 chances to dispute decisions, and if it is wrong, 1 chance will be deducted.
> 
> This way, disruption will be minimised as teams would not dispute every decision. And video replays will eliminate any refereeing mistakes, and I think these short disruptions will be a small price to pay as compared to wrong decisions that unfairly penalises a team who has spent so much time preparing.


What should a foul in the box be then? What deterrent would there be if fouls in the box didn't result in penalties?

With replays, your comparison is flawed. In tennis (and the NFL and NHL), reviews are only used for decisions that involve absolutely no judgment. Tennis is easy because it's all line calls. An NFL coach cannot ask for a review of a holding or a facemasking penalty. The NHL only uses it to determine whether the puck went into the goal in a legal manner. No penalties can be reviewed.

There is not a single sport that uses video to review a referee's judgment call.

I'll post later on to give my opinions on how the tournament is going to play out.


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## PGVan

Ok, here we go... A group-by-group standings prediction.

Group A
_1. Mexico
2. France_
3. Uruguay
4. South Africa

France got the luckiest draw in the tournament. While the players are sick of Raymond Domenech, who rivals Diego Maradona for the title of worst coach in the world, they are good enough to move through this group. This will be the World Cup where all-time streaks fall. Not only will a European team win outside of Europe in 2010, the host team will not progress through the Group Stage. South Africa is simply not good enough, and their preparation of playing friendlies with teams like Jamaica and Thailand will hurt them dearly. I would also not be surprised if Uruguay claws their way into second place over France. I think Mexico is the most complete team in this rather weak group.

Group B
_1. Greece
2. Argentina_
3. South Korea
4. Nigeria

Argentina's luck comes with the fact that they have Lionel Messi. He's good enough to get enough points to get his team through the group, but they will miss ridiculous omissions such as Javier Zanetti and Esteban Cambiasso, who just won the UEFA Champions League with Internazionale! Greece will park a tank in front of their net to stop Messi from scoring and the Greeks can handle South Korea and Nigeria. South Korea is Ji Sung Park and not much else, and Nigeria is in shambles having fired their coach after the African Cup of Nations. Lars Lagerback failed to qualify for this tournament with Sweden and he will see no success with Nigeria in South Africa. Nigeria's President also just demanded that Nigeria win it all, which will make the players scared, make them laugh, or both.

Group C
_1. England
2. Slovenia_
3. United States
4. Algeria

For once, England could live up to the hype. Capello has done wonders with the Three Lions since Steve McLaren sewered them in 2007. There is no reason England shouldn't walk through this group with 9 points. I'm usually the first to rip on the USA's program, but they have gotten better over the last decade, but they're not a World Cup contender yet. Slovenia is riding high after shocking Russia in a playoff just to get here, so they know how to win matches they are not supposed to. They have a "strength in unity" belief and they are not to be taken lightly. Algeria is no slouch either, but I just don't see the talent that could take them anywhere at this level.

Group D
_1. Serbia
2. Australia_
3. Germany
4. Ghana

This was tough to pick. Believe it or not, the easiest part for me was where I put Germany. Without Michael Ballack, they are nothing. Bastian Schweinsteiger and Phillip Lahm are not going to lead a team to World Cup glory. Miroslav Klose has lost a step and Lukas Podolski has only scored twice all season with Köln. I reserve the right to change my prediction of this group: If Michael Essien is unable to play for Ghana, they will finish 3rd or 4th and Australia will go through with Serbia. Speaking of the Serbs, I believe they are the most underrated team in the World Cup. Their defence is near impenetrable with Nemanja Vidic leading the way and up front, Dejan Stankovic and Marko Pantelic are more than capable of being a force.

EDIT: Essien is out. Ghana isn't going to do anything without him.

Group E
_1. Netherlands
2. Denmark_
3. Cameroun
4. Japan

Disclaimer: Netherlands are my team. Slight bias possible. I'll do my best.:wink

The Netherlands seems to be the only one of the "big teams" without any negative press going in. For once, the Dutch can say that! (England is going in relatively unscathed too, but it's England. They will get trashed in the press at the first sign of trouble.) The players are healthy. The attitude has changed. There are no more cancers like Clarence Seedorf demanding his way. There are no more issues between players and coaches like Marco van Basten had with Ruud van Nistelrooy and Mark van Bommel in 2006. Everybody is on the same page. A recent comment from Eljero Elia is, "We fight for each other now." As a 100% Oranje Supporter, I am more excited going into a tournament than I have ever been.

To the rest of the group... Denmark is growing into a power. Bendtner will be there go-to player with veterans like Jesper Gronkjær, Jon Dahl Tomasson and Dennis Rommedahl to provide leadership. Cameroun has a solid squad with Samuel Eto'o leading the Indomitable Lions. The match between Denmark and Cameroun will be a deciding factor in who moves on. My instinct is that Denmark has a bit more than Cameroun at this point. Japan is completely off the radar. They just don't have the talent or the leadership to challenge this group.

Group F
_1. Italy
2. Slovakia_
3. Paraguay
4. New Zealand

There are questions surrounding Italy boss Marcello Lippi leaving Luca Toni and Alessandro Del Piero off the 30-man provisional squad, then cutting Fabio Grosso from that provisional squad. However, the defending champions will still have a great team. This should be an easy group to get through with 9 points. The big match in this group is Slovakia vs. Paraguay. I feel the Slovaks have the better combination of young talent such as Marek Hamsik, Miroslav Stoch, Vladimir Weiss and Martin Skrtel, along with veterans Miroslav Karhan and Robert Vittek providing leadership along with the same excitement of being at their first World Cup. New Zealand, well, I'm sorry. When you have a couple players on your final 23-man squad who have no club affiliation, you are not good enough. FIFA needs to look at changing the format that the OFC (basically New Zealand) has to qualify. The only competition New Zealand really had was Bahrain in the OFC-AFC Playoff. That's two matches it realistically took for New Zealand to qualify, and that's not adequate.

Group G
_1. Côte d'Ivoire
2. Brasil_
3. Portugal
4. North Korea

That's right. Brasil will not win their group. I agree with Dunga leaving Adriano The Drunk at home, but to leave Ronaldinho off the list shows that Brasil is going to move towards more of a defensive style that Dunga is infamous for. The problem for Brasil is that they don't have the players who want to play that way. They are too talented to be hindered like that, and unless Dunga changes his plans, they will suffer. Fortunately for them, Portugal is Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani and not much else. Carlos Queiroz is not a popular man in Portugal and I see the Portuguese failing in this group and searching for a new coach for Euro 2012 Qualifiers. As for North Korea, EA Sports was asking fans on their World Cup 2010 game forums if anybody knew what their uniforms looked like so they could make them look respectable in the game. Nobody knows anything about this team and I doubt many North Korean civilians know they are even at the World Cup. They could be an unpredictable surprise, but I doubt it.

Group H
_1. Spain
2. Chile_
3. Switzerland
4. Honduras

Spain is, by far, the class of this group. Even if Fernando Torres can't play right away, they should have no issues getting through this group at the top. I like Honduras' passion. Latin America is great in that sense. Unfortunately, they are in over their head talent-wise. Chile, on the other hand, has the talent to combine with their passion and unwillingness to lie down and give up. They could even hold Spain to a draw if the Spaniards go into the competition a bit slow. Where I see the will in Chile, I see the other end in Switzerland. Now I'm not saying they don't want to win, but they always seem like a team who is too accepting of their inevitable fate.

No long paragraphs for my knockout predicitons... Here they are...

Round of 16
*A1 Mexico* v B2 Argentina
B1 Greece v *A2 France*
*C1 England* v D2 Australia
*D1 Serbia* v C2 Slovenia
*E1 Netherland*s v F2 Slovakia
F1 Italy v *F2 Denmark*
*G1 Côte d'Ivoire* v H2 Chile
*H1 Spain* v G2 Brasil

Quarter Finals
A1 Mexico v *C1 England*
*E1 Netherlands* v G1 Côte d'Ivoire
A2 France v *D1 Serbia*
E2 Denmark v *H1 Spain*

Semi Finals
C1 England v *E1 Netherlands*
D1 Serbia v *H1 Spain*

FINAL
*Netherlands* v Spain

*CHAMPIONS: NETHERLANDS*

Told'ya I was biased! :boogie


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## NeedleInTheHay

Spain is gonna win it all


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## Micronian

About the South American teams:

Uruguay is the weakest of the South American Contingent. If by any chance Forlan gets injured or misses a game, they don't have the attack to make any comeback. Luis Suarez and 'Loco' Abreu are not gamebreakers.

Chile has great talent this time around. Their midfield is stacked with scorers. If they win the midfield battle in their games, they can even beat the likes of Spain. And, they have a very studious coach in Marcelo Bielsa. In four years, Chile has climbed from the worst team in south america to the most effective/best prepared team, and it will show in South Africa.

Paraguay: At one point, they were the class of South America, but have declined in the past couple of years. Their club teams aren't even finalists in the Copa Libertadores like they used to be. And to top it off, their best scorer, Salvador Cabañas will not play (he was shot in the head, in Mexico, after his team got eliminated). They would have to play every game at 110% to even get to the next round.

Argentina: Esteban Cambiasso did not play one game during qualification. There's no point in bringing a new old guy in to the team. 'Pupi' Zanetti will be a loss, but Argentina will not be playing all European teams--which makes use of Zanetti in the flanks. If anything, Maradona will likely make Messi play from the sides in, and Tevez/'Kun' Aguero to pick up the ball and finish.

Brazil: Ronaldinho was not a key member in Brazil's qualification. I'm actually glad he's not on the team. To me, the key will be in how open Robinho gets in attack. The Brazil defense is rock solid, it's now just a case of how the attackers understand each other--which is why they don't need Ronaldinho or the one-dimensional Adriano.


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## Dub16

Find it hard to see beyond Spain or Brazil to be honest.


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## PGVan

Brazil's problem is Dunga. The Brazilians are typically a team with flare and excitement in their game. Dunga runs a defence-first, counter-attack system, much like Italy. I just don't see players like Robinho and other Brazilian forwards buying into it.



StarryMessenger said:


> Interesting prediction, but Germany finishing bottom of their group is a bit unthinkable. It will be nice to have an underdog in the semi finals, I see you have chosen Serbia, but I got a feeling an African team might make the semi finals, especially with the tournament held in Africa.
> 
> Ivory Coast is the strongest African team, but they have a tough group with Brazil and Portugal, and I think the best they can manage is second place in the group, which means they will probably face Group H winners Spain in the knock out stages.
> 
> If I have to choose an African team, I might go with Ghana instead. I actually think Ghana might pull off a surprise win over England in the knock out stages.


Ghana needs Essien to do anything. If he's not healthy, Ghana is in serious trouble, and even with him, it's questionable. Steven Appiah has been off the radar for a few years now and although Sulley Muntari is good, he's not among the best in my opinion.

Other than Côte d'Ivoire, I just don't see the quality in an African team to do that kind of damage. In my opinion, their group is a two-horse race. Portugal is utter garbage, as they showed today with their 0-0 draw at home to Cape Verde Islands. That's right, Portugal's World Cup Starting XI was held 0-0, at home, to Cape Verde Islands.

As for ze germans, I just don't see the quality in their squad to do much. As mentioned, Ballack is out and there is just no real leadership in the rest of the squad. Of the 27 currently in camp, 11 are under 25 years of age. It's not their year. Although it pains me to say it, give them a few more years and they will be a power again.


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## PHD in Ebonics

Micronian said:


> Argentina: Esteban Cambiasso did not play one game during qualification.


He played most of the of the qualification process under coach Alfio Basile. He even scored in a game against Peru...


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## MindOverMood




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## shynesshellasucks

I hope either Brazil or Argentina wins it. I'm not sold on Spain; they have choked numerous times on the past. If I were to guess who would win the WC, I would guess Brazil; this would still leave European teams win less outside of European soil.:b


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## PGVan

I don't know why people are still on the "Spain chokes" bandwagon. They got rid of that notion by winning EURO 2008.


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## Canadian Brotha

moxosis said:


> I like teams that everybody hate, like Germany in the '90s and Italy. Now I support Argentina, I think Argentina will win, why? Diego Milito for every 2 games he plays he scores one goal, Messi goal machine, Higuain and don't forget Carlos Tevez, oh and I forgot Angel Di Maria, yeah Argentina can score goals.
> 
> I don't know how good/bad Canada is but 5-0 massive win for Argentina, and Messi rested his knee for the game.
> 
> 3rd goal for Argentina agains Canada, Angel Di Maria


I'm not sure Canada should be used as a team to put Argentina to scale but no doubt any 5-0 win is a huge confidence boost & especially without Messi


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## PGVan

moxosis said:


> I like teams that everybody hate, like Germany in the '90s and Italy. Now I support Argentina, I think Argentina will win, why? Diego Milito for every 2 games he plays he scores one goal, Messi goal machine, Higuain and don't forget Carlos Tevez, oh and I forgot Angel Di Maria, yeah Argentina can score goals.
> 
> I don't know how good/bad Canada is but 5-0 massive win for Argentina, and Messi rested his knee for the game.


Canada is terrible. Why Argentina didn't have a preparation friendly against a far better opponent is beyond me. 5-0 in that match was the very least to be expected. They had about 90% or better of possession. It was like Manchester United vs. a 4th division club.

I can't see Argentina doing much of anything. Yes they have the players, but Diego Maradona is not a coach. He's just a cheerleader. Under his guidance, Argentina barely qualified.

Regarding your Group E... I also don't know what you're talking about saying that Holland can't play against a physical opponent. Italy is plenty physical at the back end, and we tore them to shreds at EURO 2008. Holland's problem has always been wanting to win, but only while playing Totaal Voetbal (in other words, playing an attractive style). Now the team has learned to win the low-scoring battles. It's not about winning while looking good anymore, it's just about winning. You mention that Spain won all qualifying matches. Well, so did Holland.

I have nothing but respect for the Danes, but finishing ahead of Portugal in qualifying wasn't something amazing for them to do. Portugal is garbage. They are Cristiano Ronaldo and not much else thanks to terrible coaching from Carlos Queiroz.


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## SilentWitness

@shynesshellasucks - your avatar is freaky, and not in a good way. :b


My favourites are Argentina and Italy, but something tells me it might be Germany this year (they've been so close in the past). 
Anyway, it's going to be exciting. :boogie May the best team win!


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## PGVan

moxosis said:


> I am from Iceland remember second half against Iceland we won second half 1-0 with physical football and Iceland is horrible at football, Holland also had the easiest group to qualify from, Norway didn't even get to the 2nd place playoff.


There's no such thing as a 2nd half victory. A match is 90 minutes long, not 45. Last I checked, we won the match 2-1. That's all that matters, and that's Holland's new attitude. You're talking about 45 minutes of football that Holland played against a weak opponent, when they were just making sure they got the victory and qualification sealed up. All that to say they can't play against a physical opponent? That's not exactly much, now is it? Again, last time we played a truly physical opponent (Italy at EURO 2008 ), we stormed to a 3-0 win.

Weak group or not, we still won them all. Spain's was slightly more competitive, but a declining Turkey and rising Bosnia team didn't exactly push them very hard.


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## PGVan

moxosis said:


> I really don't want to go into this bla bla bla bull**** as I said Iceland did not play physical in first half, but then went into playing aggressive in second half, in 2008 Marcello Lippi was not the coach of Italy in 2008, it is a different thing, all the teams in the Holland group was weak teams, talking about this is pointless, my prediction was for fun, NOT a FOOTBALL F***ING EXPERT prediction.


Relax. I'm not looking for expert analysis, I'm looking for common sense. Using 45 minutes of a qualifier (especially a half where all Holland needed to do was not allow 2 goals in order to seal qualification) to judge how a team will play a year later, in matches that mean a lot more, doesn't make a lot of sense.

What also doesn't make a lot of sense, is suggesting that Italy's coaching was the reason Holland destroyed them at EURO 2008. Italy is always tough defensively, no matter who is on the sideline, and they got ran over in that match.

Again, this isn't expert stuff.


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## Rasputin_1

Few thoughts.......

Spain is the most complete team if they are healthy. 

The Dutch defense isnt that great and it seems like they always shoot themselves in the foot. 

I dont know who will score goals for italy but it never seems to matter

Ronaldinho cares more about partying then soccer, ask any Milan fan 

But as always for me it will be usa first italy second!


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## millenniumman75

I hope that USA will do better than they have in the past.


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## PGVan

Rasputin_1 said:


> The Dutch defense isnt that great and it seems like they always shoot themselves in the foot.


Granted we don't have anybody as good as Jaap Stam anymore, but we're a lot better than we get credit for. Johnny Heitinga had a stellar season once he moved from Atlético to Everton. Joris Mathijsen is quite underrated. Giovanni van Bronckhorst is an old warrior, as is André Ooijer. They will be looking for glory in their last hurrah. Khalid Boulahrouz, aka The Cannibal, isn't going to let anybody handle him very easily and we have young and upcoming talents in Edson Braafheid and Gregory van der Wiel, who is being pursued by Manchester City. Is our defence of Brazilian or Italian quality? No. However, it's not of poor quality and it's not weak to the point where it's going to be our achilles heel.

As for my earlier predictions, I need to edit that long-*** post now that Michael Essien has been ruled out for Ghana.


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## Rasputin_1

PGVan said:


> Granted we don't have anybody as good as Jaap Stam anymore, but we're a lot better than we get credit for. Johnny Heitinga had a stellar season once he moved from Atlético to Everton. Joris Mathijsen is quite underrated. Giovanni van Bronckhorst is an old warrior, as is André Ooijer. They will be looking for glory in their last hurrah. Khalid Boulahrouz, aka The Cannibal, isn't going to let anybody handle him very easily and we have young and upcoming talents in Edson Braafheid and Gregory van der Wiel, who is being pursued by Manchester City. Is our defence of Brazilian or Italian quality? No. However, it's not of poor quality and it's not weak to the point where it's going to be our achilles heel.
> 
> As for my earlier predictions, I need to edit that long-*** post now that Michael Essien has been ruled out for Ghana.


I think that you have as good of a shot as anyone. On a unrelated note why does Arjen Roben look like hes 45?????


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## PGVan

Receding hairlines can be a ***** lol.


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## Rasputin_1

PGVan said:


> Receding hairlines can be a ***** lol.


yeah its not just that though, his face just looks old.


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## PHD in Ebonics

PGVan said:


> Canada is terrible. Why Argentina didn't have a preparation friendly against a far better opponent is beyond me.


Most coaches don't even want to play games, they'd rather rest completely. Of course, their federations would much rather create revenue, so they'll fix up friendlies...

And also, when picking friendlies, it could be a catch 22 sort of thing. If you pick a formidable opponent, there is less opportunity to try out new formations strategies. If you were to try these against such a team, that team would most likely dance all over you and kill the confidence in your players.

Sure if you play weak level teams, you're not playing to your best potential, and it's an easy game, but you get a chance to try out new systems and/or players. And a 5-0 win, no matter how weak the opponent may be, will always be great for your confidence. Most coaches would much rather choose this option. It's not just Argentina that's playing low teams like Haiti and Canada, but Brazil, and Spain are playing semi-pro teams as well.


> I have nothing but respect for the Danes, but finishing ahead of Portugal in qualifying wasn't something amazing for them to do. Portugal is garbage. They are Cristiano Ronaldo and not much else thanks to terrible coaching from Carlos Queiroz.


CR9 has always been a no-show when playing for his national team. If anything, the best players on there are the Brazilians Alves and Liedson.


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## PGVan

Psychedelic Breakfast said:


> Most coaches don't even want to play games, they'd rather rest completely. Of course, their federations would much rather create revenue, so they'll fix up friendlies...
> 
> And also, when picking friendlies, it could be a catch 22 sort of thing. If you pick a formidable opponent, there is less opportunity to try out new formations strategies. If you were to try these against such a team, that team would most likely dance all over you and kill the confidence in your players.
> 
> Sure if you play weak level teams, you're not playing to your best potential, and it's an easy game, but you get a chance to try out new systems and/or players. And a 5-0 win, no matter how weak the opponent may be, will always be great for your confidence. Most coaches would much rather choose this option. It's not just Argentina that's playing low teams like Haiti and Canada, but Brazil, and Spain are playing semi-pro teams as well.


Spain played Saudi Arabia today. They're hardly "semi-pro". They got the short end of the stick in a tie with North Korea for qualification, then got beat on away goals against Bahrain in the Asian playoff.

In my opinion, a month or less before a major tournament is no time to be trying out formations and strategies. You should know how you want to play. Argentina beating Canada 5-0 should only put things into perspective for them. Using that to gain confidence going into playing a group with Nigeria, Greece and South Korea is asking for trouble in my opinion.

I disagree that coaches would rather rest completely. You have to get into games to ensure team chemistry is there. That is more important than formations and strategies this close to the event. The revenue argument holds on normal FIFA dates when you don't have a competitive match, but going into the World Cup, a lot of friendlies are on neutral ground.


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## mbp86

I got a new respect for soccer players. I kicked a soccer ball around today and I got tired after 3 minutes of chasing it. How do these guys keep on going and going? Incredible stamina...!


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## moxosis

Very interesting prediction, Castrol Football.
http://www.castrolfootball.com
Chances of Winning 2010 World Cup.


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## mbp86

Was it correct for the last World Cup?


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## matty

I like Spain 

Serbia wont win but I am interested to see where they make it to. 

And I hope Australia make it out of the group stage.


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## whiterabbit

Is this an American thing, saying "Portugal _is_ terrible" rather than "Portugal _are_ terrible"? Or is it an everybody-but-the-British thing? It sounds really weird to me.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the World Cup a lot. I have no predictions, except that I'll have very sore eyes from watching too much television in a few weeks time. I'm annoyed that I won't get to watch as many live games as I did during the last World Cup and Euros, back in happier times when I had neither school or work to go to.

I haven't seen either of England's friendlies against Mexico and Japan but the press reports are predictably full of the usual words like "unconvincing" and "worryingly".


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## Micronian

whiterabbit said:


> Is this an American thing, saying "Portugal _is_ terrible" rather than "Portugal _are_ terrible"? Or is it an everybody-but-the-British thing? It sounds really weird to me.


Grammatically speaking, "Portugal" is a singular proper noun, therefore you would have to use the singular verb. What is ironic is that "The Netherlands" also falls under this category, as you're talking about the one nation state, rather than a cluster of "lands". English can be very confusing.


whiterabbit said:


> I haven't seen either of England's friendlies against Mexico and Japan but the press reports are predictably full of the usual words like "unconvincing" and "worryingly".


They were terrible against Japan.

I don't see England play very often but they made the Japanese look like superstars. England had little control of the ball in the first half, nobody was really moving, and had next to no shots on the Japanese Goalkeeper. Worse, was that the Japanese goal made the defense look completely foolish, as the ball went past both the gk and the defender--who covers the post precisely to block the shots that come near him!

Japan also had about 3 other perfect scoring opportunities that even my grandma could have scored on. Only once it started raining did England have any control of the game.


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## redtogo72

Micronian said:


> I don't see England play very often but they made the Japanese look like superstars. England had little control of the ball in the first half, nobody was really moving, and had next to no shots on the Japanese Goalkeeper. Worse, was that the Japanese goal made the defense look completely foolish, as the ball went past both the gk and the defender--who covers the post precisely to block the shots that come near him!
> 
> Japan also had about 3 other perfect scoring opportunities that even my grandma could have scored on. Only once it started raining did England have any control of the game.


Yeah, that was a boring first half. Even the English commentators were making jokes about it, while the camera was busy zooming in on someone in the stands that was sleeping or others that were yawning uncontrollably.

And from what I remember, Japan scored all the goals including England's goals; they accidentally hit it in to their own goal twice.

There's a few reasons why I think England might not be as bad as they looked in that game. I don't think England was playing all of their starters? Also, the commentators did say that England hasn't lost a friendly match since the 90s and during that year they made it to the semi-finals of the world cup. I guess their poor performance during a friendly match doesn't necessarily dictate how well they will do during the World Cup.


----------



## Cheeky

Spain is my pick for winner (way to go out of the box and not pick the favourite right lol). Though I would reeeally like England to win but am not too hopeful for them making it past the 1/4 finals (hope I get to eat my words!). Nigeria is my pick for underdog.


----------



## matty

Rooney cant carry the whole team  Would love to see a modern day english team play well, Maybe this is there year.. but I doubt it


----------



## PGVan

Psychedelic Breakfast said:


> Any team that plays in the AFC is crap in my book. Unless you give North Korea, South Korea, or Japan (one good game against England doesn't make them world beaters...) a chance to even get out of the group stages.


I would give Japan a shot with an easier draw. They don't have a chance in Group E.

I think Australia is well capable of advancing out of their group with Serbia, Ghana and Germany.

Although Diego Maradona is a cheerleader rather than a coach, Argentina is good enough to win their group. South Korea, Nigeria and Greece is a wide-open battle for 2nd place. The Koreans definitely have a shot.

North Korea, in all honesty, who ****ing knows? Realistically, they should go 0-0-3, though a result against what is the worst Portuguese squad we've seen in a long time, isn't out of the question. However, given North Korea's secretive status, I don't think it's a stretch to point way back to 1966 and remind the world of how the team nobody knew about beat Italy to advance out of the group stage, and if not for their brutal collapse against Portugal in the QF after going up 3-0, who knows what they could have accomplished.

Asia isn't as strong as Europe or South America, obviously, but they're nothing to be laughed at either. If the "better teams" go to sleep against them, they can take advantage.


----------



## GUESS WHO

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/team=43921/index.html


im supporting *all of these teams *

*SORRY ENGLAND:b*

*Hosts*


South Africa
*African Qualifying Group*


Ghana
Ivory Coast
Nigeria
Cameroon
Algeria
*Asian Qualifying Group*


Japan
Australia
South Korea
North Korea
*European Qualifying Group*


*who? *
Netherlands
Spain
Serbia
Italy
Denmark
Germany
Switzerland
Slovakia
France
Portugal
Greece
Slovenia
*South American Qualifying Group*


Brazil
Paraguay
Chile
Argentina
Uruguay
*North, Central America and Caribbean Qualifying Group*


United States
Mexico
Honduras
*Asia, Oceania Qualifying Group*


New Zealand


----------



## moxosis

Can't wait for World Cup to start, I hope we will get a lot of surprise results. And a lot of goals, and drama, ref giving a red card or penalty and everybody arguing and angry.


----------



## defoe

rooney and crouchie to start against the USA

hopefully we can win


----------



## Canadian Brotha

moxosis said:


> Can't wait for World Cup to start, I hope we will get a lot of surprise results. And a lot of goals, and drama, ref giving a red card or penalty and everybody arguing and angry.


Indeed may it be a drama filled cup competition!


----------



## imt

Let's go Brazil!


----------



## Randall

can anyone beat spain?


----------



## matty

That bacelona - inter second leg was crazy. Inter had one shot... which was way wide from a long way out. For inter to win that match up is a disappointment. But inter beat barcelona then munich. 

It does go to show a way to beat spain. On paper spain should walk away clear winners but its the world cup and nothing goes to plan.


----------



## Manfi

can't wait! 
hopefully England ****s up (as usual) lol


----------



## seanybhoy

Meh ! Germany or Italy usually get the job done without being too surrounded in hype. I wouldn't be surprised to see either of these teams in the final.

-True Story


----------



## seanybhoy

Also... Darren Bent not in the England squad but Heskey's included hmm bit of a dumb**** idea in my opinion.


----------



## whiterabbit

They did a sweepstakes at work today and I picked out North Korea. Nice waste of five quid.


----------



## Cheeky

I changed my mind and decided on a Spain/Brazil final with Brazil taking it.
Go Brazil! lol


----------



## Manfi

whiterabbit said:


> They did a sweepstakes at work today and I picked out North Korea. Nice waste of five quid.


lol NKorea is grouped with Portugal, Brazil and Ivory coast!  They're gonna make Saudi Arabia look like pros lol
----------------------------------------
I had to wear an England jersey today at work all day b/c I kept talking **** about England and my boss is English!!! hahha He basically forced me to wear it, no joke!


----------



## PGVan

How will they make Saudi Arabia "look like pros" when they got to the World Cup by finishing ahead of them in AFC qualifying? Now I don't see North Korea qualifying for the Round of 16, but I also can't sit here and say for sure that they're going to get destroyed like so many think they will. In all honesty, who knows much of anything about this team? The only other World Cup they qualified for, they walked in, eliminated Italy in the last match of the group stage and went up 3-0 on Portugal in the QF, only to have a major Eusebio-induced collapse. 

It's easy to prepare for opponents you know, but all you can do when you face the unknown, is prepare yourselves to be at your best. The unpredictability shouldn't de-rail Brazil, but if Côte d'Ivoire doesn't have Drogba, and with Portugal's current state, who knows what could happen?

That all said, North Korea have already proven themselves to be quite dumb. Either that, or they think they are above the rules. They only have two goalkeepers, but there must be 3 on the squad. They filled the third slot with striker Kim Myong Won, thinking they could just put him on the list as a goalkeeper and play him as a striker. FIFA were quick to enforce the rule with the submitted squad. They cannot change it and Kim Myong Won is banished to a backup goalkeeper's seat on the bench. 

I was also reading World Soccer's WC Guide, and 31 coaches had page-long interviews printed. Kim Jong Hun's interview was not even half a dozen questions, where he claimed that thousands of North Koreans partied in the streets of Pyongyang when they qualified and that they couldn't have done it without Kim Jong Il's support. He's just another puppet and their team's media interaction is going to be nothing but frustrating.


----------



## defoe

We also have a World Cup betting round at our school

the winner gets a surprise


----------



## bezoomny

Ελλαδα νομιζω παντας τους αλλους νικησειν.


----------



## redtogo72

Entertaining opening game.

It's a shame that during the previous evening, "Nelson Mandela's great-granddaughter killed in car crash", by a drunk driver. :/


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I'm glad South Africa scored the first goal of the first World Cup in Africa, they had some decent spell after a shaky start, they just don't quite have the precision of the passing game. Their keeper also had some big moments too. As for Mexico, their passing game was solid but they had a hard time finishing, Dos Santos is someone to look out for, not sure if he's in Europe now but I'll keep my eye out for him next season.

Now to see if France can pull it together in the actual competition, I hope so.

It is sad about the Mandela tragedy, best wishes to the family.


----------



## lucyinthesky

Supporting Spain as usual  Well, avoiding watching the matches if I can but just hoping they'll win, lol. Anything to annoy my brother.


----------



## PGVan

I didn't think Mexico had a good passing game at all. Just like South Africa, a lot of balls sent out to the flanks ended up out of play. 

South Africa really should have won. Some better finish would have seen them with 3 goals in the second half.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

PGVan said:


> I didn't think Mexico had a good passing game at all. Just like South Africa, a lot of balls sent out to the flanks ended up out of play.
> 
> South Africa really should have won. Some better finish would have seen them with 3 goals in the second half.


I think Mexico's passing game was pretty good but they lost it the longer the game went & in particular couldn't pass their way into the box but they did run around the South Africans for a few good spells. What was particularly poor for me was the crossing whether for open play or free kicks


----------



## Banzai

MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> GO USA! :banana


We're up against you tomorrow I believe 

Shall be interesting to see how our new manager plays out/how we perform in the first proper match of the cup...


----------



## whiterabbit

Well, that was a boring game (Uruguay v France). Even the vuvuzelas couldn't keep me awake. I'm looking forward to tomorrow and seeing how Argentina do, and of course, England v USA. And South Korea v Greece. I'm just looking forward to it all.



Manfi said:


> lol NKorea is grouped with Portugal, Brazil and Ivory coast!  They're gonna make Saudi Arabia look like pros lol


I think, lately, and especially in light of their draw with Cape Verde of all places, it's Portugal who have been making Saudi Arabia look like pros. It wouldn't surprise me if North Korea got a result against them, but it seems unlikely against Brazil and the Ivory Coast. Still, stranger things have happened. But they're clearly not going to win the thing, or come second or third, so I think my money is lost.


----------



## moxosis

France didn't score a goal, they don't seem be fast enough going forward, not a surprise they played the same game against China, running good in midfield until they reach the box then the other team picks the ball from their feet. I was hoping for a Uruguay win.


----------



## bezoomny

Goddamn, they're not gonna replay Greece's game tomorrow. So I have to get up at six AM on a Saturday if I want to watch them.


----------



## Scorpius

Yea France Vs Uruguay was pretty boring.. :blank

Hopefully more entertaining games to come..


----------



## PGVan

bezoomny said:


> Goddamn, they're not gonna replay Greece's game tomorrow. So I have to get up at six AM on a Saturday if I want to watch them.


Forgive me if I feel zero sympathy for you. The Oranje's first 2 matches are at 4:30AM Pacific Time, and I believe in watching my team live at every opportunity.


----------



## proximo20

Scorpius said:


> Yea France Vs Uruguay was pretty boring.. :blank


I am planning to get a vuvuzela to make such boring games more entertaining.

http://letskickvuvuzelaoutoffootball.com/


----------



## defoe

france were so bad 
but atleast i predicted a 0-0 draw


----------



## Harbinger

Does anyone else find it unfair that the crappy Team USA gets to go to every WC simply because of lack of any serious competition in North America? While some other way more talented European teams get to stay?


----------



## bezoomny

****ing ouch, Greece. αἶ αἶ, οἶμοι, φεῦ, κτλ.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I'm glad to see the Koreans do well, Greece looked defeated very early on, they just didn't have the drive or team discipline to rebound.

Argentina came in waves but the Nigerian keeper was in excellent form, it's great that Nigeria gave it a go when they had a couple chances



Harbinger said:


> Does anyone else find it unfair that the crappy Team USA gets to go to every WC simply because of lack of any serious competition in North America? While some other way more talented European teams get to stay?


That's what the Euro Competition is for, you should watch that to see the best of Europe duke it out



defoe said:


> france were so bad
> but atleast i predicted a 0-0 draw


It's a terrible time to be a France fan, that's for sure


----------



## AlwaysOnTheOutside

The Redcoats are coming!!!

I love the hype for this US-England game.


----------



## Banzai

Disappointing game I think. 1-1 :no


----------



## bezoomny

USA! USA! USA!

This almost makes up for Greece's shameful loss. Lucky, lucky.


----------



## Cyrus

What a crap result. Just not good enough.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

It's been a day of early goals


----------



## Scorpius

England vs Usa...another boring game... :yes

Why do i only get to watch the crappy games..:mum


----------



## Harbinger

So far I think it was the most entertaining game.

Team England is not as tough as they tried to make themselves look.


----------



## moxosis

Difference between France and Argentina is the Argentina player respect and love playing for Maradona, when the France player have no respect for Domenech. I even changed my avatar to Maradona becasue he had more touch on the ball today than Ángel Di María.


----------



## PHD in Ebonics

Harbinger said:


> Does anyone else find it unfair that the crappy Team USA gets to go to every WC simply because of lack of any serious competition in North America? While some other way more talented European teams get to stay?


That's been the format since forever. I think they tried changing it once for a WC in the 50s, where you were paired up against another team in the world, but it didn't work out too well, obviously. That's just how it goes, the CONMEBOL, UEFA, and CAF have it far, while the rest play against amateur nations (although UEFA has its fair share of amateur nations as well).

On another note, how about that goal by Dempsey, eh?



moxosis said:


> I even changed my avatar to Maradona becasue he had more touch on the ball today than Ángel Di María.


LMAO. Di Maria should stay as a starter though. The one who I think has to go to the bench is Higuain, Milito is at a better moment and has proved he doesn't succumb to pressure.


----------



## bezoomny

Psychedelic Breakfast said:


> On another note, how about that goal by Dempsey, eh?


You mean the goal by Green?


----------



## david86

bezoomny said:


> You mean the goal by Green?


lol thanks Green, we needed that one


----------



## Harbinger

I must say, that soccer thing you guys like so much is really really boring.

Now if they would reduce the field, make the net smaller, make the ball smaller, put boards around the field, make players hit the ball with sticks, it would have been a much better game, I'm telling ya!!! :yes


----------



## Scorpius

Psychedelic Breakfast said:


> On another note, how about that goal by Dempsey, eh?


Funny how just one silly mistake can cost the whole team a match..lol..that would suck if it happened in the final and a team lost because of it.. :teeth


----------



## PGVan

Not trying to be an *** here, but those who call (the real) football boring just don't understand the game. Anybody who needs a high total on the scoreboard, continuous high-tempo action and physical contact to be entertained just cannot understand how beautiful football really is.



Harbinger said:


> Does anyone else find it unfair that the crappy Team USA gets to go to every WC simply because of lack of any serious competition in North America? While some other way more talented European teams get to stay?


Not at all. It's the World Cup. World representation is needed at the final tournament.

That, and the gap between the mid-table European nations and the US isn't as wide as it used to be. The US and Mexico are dominating CONCACAF and it's basically a competition among the rest for one guaranteed spot and one playoff spot.

The only problem I have with qualifying is the OFC. New Zealand could have won the OFC with their U16 team, and all they really had to do to qualify is beat Bahrain in the AFC/OFC playoff. Personally, I think FIFA should just combine the AFC and OFC into one large confederation.



moxosis said:


> Difference between France and Argentina is the *Argentina player respect and love playing for Maradona*, when the France player have no respect for Domenech. I even changed my avatar to Maradona becasue he had more touch on the ball today than Ángel Di María.


Tell that to Juan Roman Riquelmé. Argentina's players are talented enough to get through their group on their own. Reality is that Maradona is a cheerleader. He's not a coach.


----------



## AlwaysOnTheOutside

PGVan said:


> Not trying to be an *** here, but those who call (the real) football boring just don't understand the game. Anybody who needs a high total on the scoreboard, continuous high-tempo action and physical contact to be entertained just cannot understand how beautiful football really is.


A sport that has ties so regularly is never going to catch on in the USA. I don't watch soccer much, but when I do I do agree it's beautiful. Despite that, even beautiful plays don't get rewarded with a goal most of the time. As we saw today, one lucky goal can completely change the outcome of a game.


----------



## PGVan

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> A sport that has ties so regularly is never going to catch on in the USA. I don't watch soccer much, but when I do I do agree it's beautiful. Despite that, even beautiful plays don't get rewarded with a goal most of the time. As we saw today, one lucky goal can completely change the outcome of a game.


The anti-tie attitude is definitely a North American thing, and I think it's ridiculous. Not every match deserves a winner and too often in a no-tie system, a team who doesn't deserve to win gets rewarded with one. The day the NHL went to shootouts to break ties during the regular season was a sad day for me.

Luck (good or bad) is part of sports. Lucky goals (or baskets or touchdowns or field goals) happen in every sport. That has nothing to do with footy being what it is.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

The main reason it won't succeed in USA is because that is not where soccer's best players play. It would be like Canadian's choosing to go play hockey in Russia instead of the NHL. The history of European soccer is what will keep it on top, where the best players play. That means MLS will always be a 2nd rate league.
I love, love, love the World Cup, and the best part about soccer....no commercials, and the games are 90-95 minutes with a short half-time. I wouldn't mind seeing them play on a shorter, narrower field though. There would be more scoring that way, yeah?


----------



## Banzai

david86 said:


> lol thanks Green, we needed that one


I think he's the most hated man in England right now.


----------



## seanybhoy

Serves England right, they take teams for granted then complain when they under achieve. Heskey is horrendous. Green should remain in goals, it'll do him the world of good if his players support him, they win as a team so they should lose/draw as a team.


----------



## AlwaysOnTheOutside

PGVan said:


> The anti-tie attitude is definitely a North American thing, and I think it's ridiculous. Not every match deserves a winner and too often in a no-tie system, a team who doesn't deserve to win gets rewarded with one. The day the NHL went to shootouts to break ties during the regular season was a sad day for me.
> 
> Luck (good or bad) is part of sports. Lucky goals (or baskets or touchdowns or field goals) happen in every sport. That has nothing to do with footy being what it is.


It doesn't have to be a shootout. They could keep playing until somebody wins.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> It doesn't have to be a shootout. They could keep playing until somebody wins.


Matches that go into extra time usually have worn players & I don't think it provides much more satisfaction honestly. I'm not particularly keen on penalty shootouts either but I do think both are necessary in the latter stages of the competition. Personally draws don't bother me. In these group stage games teams see a first game draw as tactically ok because they are playing for points, once it's on to do or die you'll see more teams really go for it


----------



## Canadian Brotha

That handball was ridiculous by Serbia & I almost thought it wasn't going to be called for a second but it was & I'm happy Ghana won since those are my roots. We are the first African win at first African World Cup


----------



## Harbinger

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> A sport that has ties so regularly is never going to catch on in the USA.


Too many ties and low-scoring I think are the secondary reasons. When I ask Americans about their problem with soccer they usually say that it's too slow-paced and they see it more as a participant sport, rather than spectator. A lot of kids play it too mostly from elementary to junior high, so it's not really associated with a professional sport.

TV companies aren't too fond of it either, because it only has 2 periods 45 minutes each, which leaves very little room for commercials.


----------



## moxosis

The German steel is still strong, doesn't matter how many think they are not strong they always play well at world cup, 2nd place 2002, 3rd place 2006. Some of the players like Podolski seem to play better for their national team than football club. They won the first game at 2006 WC 4-2 and they are playing the same game now, scoring goals. I think it will take one of the big to take them out like Brazil, Italy or Spain.


----------



## bezoomny

Ozil was really entertaining. Sucks for the Aussies though.


----------



## Micronian

Harbinger said:


> Does anyone else find it unfair that the crappy Team USA gets to go to every WC simply because of lack of any serious competition in North America? While some other way more talented European teams get to stay?


And yet...the same European teams make it to the world cup all the time. Only the less prominent teams switch around, like Greece, Rumania, Ireland, Poland.

I don't know how European World Cup Qualifying is, but I hope there aren't any seeds, because that already gives the top teams the unfair advantage that they can't face teams of equal caliber in their group. I think it would be amazing to see Germany, Spain, England fight it out for one or two qualifying spots.

In South America, Argentina was nearly eliminated precisely because there was no seeding. If there were seeds, they'd hardly be in any danger of elimination.


----------



## Micronian

moxosis said:


> The German steel is still strong, doesn't matter how many think they are not strong they always play well at world cup, 2nd place 2002, 3rd place 2006. Some of the players like Podolski seem to play better for their national team than football club. They won the first game at 2006 WC 4-2 and they are playing the same game now, scoring goals. I think it will take one of the big to take them out like Brazil, Italy or Spain.


The German Bundesliga is a very strong league despite that it's woefully underrated compared to others in Europe.

Nevertheless, Australia is no test for a top team like Germany.


----------



## Micronian

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> It doesn't have to be a shootout. They could keep playing until somebody wins.


A Shootout couldn't happen in soccer unless they allow unlimited substitutions. Soccer is an incredibly aerobic sport with a mix of power in the legs. Usually in extra time is when the players begin to burn out and get cramps and lie on the field because they literally cannot move their legs anymore--and they can't leave because the 3 substitutions are used up!

If you keep playing until somebody scores, there would be no players left standing after a while.


----------



## Paper Samurai

There are some things in international football that are universally timeless:

-Never underestimate the Germans.
-England will be hyped to the moon pre-tournament then flop spectacularly.
-The Italians will cheat.
-And the Brazillians will pretty much always reach the final.

:b


----------



## whiterabbit

Germany also made it to the final of the Euros two years ago. I always expect them to do fairly well. I like Germany and usually find myself rooting for them a little bit. Not sure why. It's not very English of me. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how they do against better opposition.



Micronian said:


> I don't know how European World Cup Qualifying is, but I hope there aren't any seeds, because that already gives the top teams the unfair advantage that they can't face teams of equal caliber in their group. I think it would be amazing to see Germany, Spain, England fight it out for one or two qualifying spots.


I'm pretty sure the teams are seeded in European qualifying. I suppose there is an element of unfairness to it, but, while it's great to see the smaller and more unknown teams at the World Cup, I do like to see all the big footballing nations there as well. I'd rather see the best teams in the world fight it out at the actual tournament than in qualifying. Maybe I'm too conventional.


----------



## PGVan

the cheat said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing them play on a shorter, narrower field though. There would be more scoring that way, yeah?


No, no, no, no, no, NO!

The "higher scoring automatically means more entertainment" mentality is also something purely North American, and I just don't understand it. There can be 0-0 draws that are just as entertaining as a 4-3 goalfest.



AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> It doesn't have to be a shootout. They could keep playing until somebody wins.


No they can't. It would result in certain cases of death, and that's not a joke. Soccer is not like the hockey where players play 30-45 seconds and then rest for 2-3 minutes, if not longer. Soccer already has gotten to the point where most top leagues now require passing a cardiovascular test for players to play because there was a period where players collapsing and dying was happening almost regularly.



Micronian said:


> I don't know how European World Cup Qualifying is, but I hope there aren't any seeds, because that already gives the top teams the unfair advantage that they can't face teams of equal caliber in their group. I think it would be amazing to see Germany, Spain, England fight it out for one or two qualifying spots.
> 
> In South America, Argentina was nearly eliminated precisely because there was no seeding. If there were seeds, they'd hardly be in any danger of elimination.


South America doesn't have seeding because all there is, is one single group of 12 countries. Everybody plays everybody twice. In Europe, that can't happen because there are over 50 countries competing.

Why should teams like Germany, Spain, England and other top nations be punished for their past performances and have to play each other in qualifying? Another effect that would have, is less deserving teams would be together in other groups, and it would send a much less quality European contingent to the final tournament. In Europe, the groups usually have 2 good teams with 1-2 teams capable of an upset and a few minnows near the bottom. That's how it should be. World Rankings exist for a reason.

As for today, Australia was very disappointing. I think they are better than that, but they came out flat. They were also victim of a terrible red card. Cahill clearly kept his studs in and held up on the tackle. It was a debatable yellow card and he got sent off. Germany still would have won, but it would have been 1-0 or 2-0 instead of 4-0 had Cahill remained in the match.

Serbia was brutal. Much worse than they are capable of. They now don't have Lukovic for the match against Germany, and that will hurt them.

Don't have much to say about Slovenia-Algeria. Didn't see much of it, but I wasn't disappointed seeing Slovenia pull out the win, even if Chaouchi should have saved Koren's goal.


----------



## PHD in Ebonics

Paper Samurai said:


> There are some things in international football that are universally timeless:
> 
> -Never underestimate the Germans.
> -England will be hyped to the moon pre-tournament then flop spectacularly.
> -The Italians will cheat.
> -And the Brazillians will pretty much always reach the final.
> 
> :b


All so true, except for the third one.:mum


----------



## Micronian

PGVan said:


> South America doesn't have seeding because all there is, is one single group of 12 countries. Everybody plays everybody twice. In Europe, that can't happen because there are over 50 countries competing.
> 
> Why should teams like Germany, Spain, England and other top nations be punished for their past performances and have to play each other in qualifying? Another effect that would have, is less deserving teams would be together in other groups, and it would send a much less quality European contingent to the final tournament. In Europe, the groups usually have 2 good teams with 1-2 teams capable of an upset and a few minnows near the bottom. That's how it should be. World Rankings exist for a reason.


Why do you consider it a punishment that they play against equal opponents? That's how the games SHOULD BE played. It should never be about scoring 10 goals against san marino as a "reward". As far as I'm concerned, seeding makes random draws not-so-random.

Personally, my favourite system is the CONCACAF system, because the lower teams play sub-tournaments until the best of the lower groups make it into the larger groups. Then they keep reducing the groups until the very best are playing each other for a qualifying spot. It's ridiculous that some European teams can qualify undefeated, which then gets them ranked high in FIFA, and then get "rewarded" by playing lower teams, so they never end up being legitimately challenged, or under any real pressure of elimination, and always stay top-ranked.


----------



## TheRob

A downtown entertainment district in Kansas City is showing all the matches -- even the 6:30 a.m. matches -- on a giant monitor. I've been down there the last three days, despite my social anxiety.

--The Mexico fans have been the most fun.
--I was surprised at the number of England supporters down there Saturday. Several wore Joe Cole shirts and blamed his exclusion from the lineup for England's inability to win.
--I've watched plenty of EPL football over the years, but I had never heard the term "howler" until Saturday. I might add it to my regular vocabulary.
--The David Beckham evil eye after the "howler" was the best TV shot of the tournament so far.
--Germany is young and inexperienced in midfield? It didn't look that way. If the USA finishes second in Group C and plays Germany in the round of 16, it _will_ be ugly.
--By the way, it would be most helpful if the USA beat Slovenia.

Someone mentioned shorter and narrower fields would promote scoring; that's not necessarily the case. The Kansas City Wizards currently play on a field less than regulation length and width. It stifles creativity and leads to players crammed into smaller spaces. And I don't really want to return to the indoor soccer days of the 1970s and '80s, with the orange ball, games ending 12-9, and disco music playing while the home team was on offense.


----------



## mbp86

Why was the US happy and England upset over a tie game? I'm not sure how soccer works.


----------



## Scorpius

mbp86 said:


> Why was the US happy and England upset over a tie game? I'm not sure how soccer works.


England is "historically" a better and a stronger team..US are still fairly new to soccer compared to England...just based on history and England's reputation in soccer they should be able to win that match..so it's disappointing for England to come out only with a tie..the fans expected more..but for US they should be happy that England let them get away with a draw..

US def. got a decent and a respectable team now..they are not soccer newbies anymore..lol..But I don't think they got a draw because they were that good..they got a draw because England was actually bad in that game and should have done better than this

History and reputation does not apply in soccer much anymore though..most teams are fairly strong now and the competition is a lot tougher than it used to be..I won't be surprised to see a team like Mexico, S. Korea or Ghana in the semifinals


----------



## Manfi

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> A sport that has ties so regularly is never going to catch on in the USA. I don't watch soccer much, but when I do I do agree it's beautiful. Despite that, even beautiful plays don't get rewarded with a goal most of the time. As we saw today, one lucky goal can completely change the outcome of a game.


North Americans will never understand the beautiful game.
Football is more than a sport. It's about history, passion and tradition.

I've learned more about the world b/c of football than I have in all of my time in school. 
Hopefully football will never become popular in NA.


----------



## bezoomny

Manfi said:


> North Americans will never understand the beautiful game.
> Football is more than a sport. It's about history, passion and tradition.
> 
> I've learned more about the world b/c of football than I have in all of my time in school.
> Hopefully football will never become popular in NA.


Who made you the authority on which countries get to play football?


----------



## PGVan

Micronian said:


> Why do you consider it a punishment that they play against equal opponents? That's how the games SHOULD BE played. It should never be about scoring 10 goals against san marino as a "reward". As far as I'm concerned, seeding makes random draws not-so-random.
> 
> Personally, my favourite system is the CONCACAF system, because the lower teams play sub-tournaments until the best of the lower groups make it into the larger groups. Then they keep reducing the groups until the very best are playing each other for a qualifying spot. It's ridiculous that some European teams can qualify undefeated, which then gets them ranked high in FIFA, and then get "rewarded" by playing lower teams, so they never end up being legitimately challenged, or under any real pressure of elimination, and always stay top-ranked.


No real pressure of elimination?

Holland was eliminated in 2002 qualifying. They finished lower than Portugal and Ireland in their group.

Portugal was forced to a playoff for 2010 with Denmark finishing ahead of them.

Slovenia eliminated Russia for 2010 in a playoff.

Croatia was eliminated in the group for 2010, finishing behind England and Ukraine.

England was eliminated from EURO 2008 in the group. They finished behind Croatia and Russia, and were tied with Israel.

I won't go through more examples. The CONCACAF sytem works because their qualifying starts a lot earlier than Europe. The teams in the last stage of CONCACAF qualifying had a total of 18 qualifying fixtures, with the exception of El Salvador, who played 20 as the only team playing Stage One who made it to the end. Stage One began in February 2008, as European teams were preparing for EURO 2008, and Stage Two began in June 2008, when EURO 2008 was taking place.

South America plays 18 fixtures. 10 countries (not 12 as I said earlier) play each other twice, but they also started 2010 qualifying in late 2007, when Europe was still finalizing EURO 2008 qualifying.

In Asia, teams in the final stage played between 14-16 fixtures, depending on whether they started in Stage One, Two or Three. Again, Stage One began in 2007.

Africa has a similar system, with smaller groups, thus less fixtures for the better teams starting later during the competition. However, their first stage, again, began in late 2007.

With all that, you should see how there is no way Europe can have a similar system because they can't start qualifying until almost a full year after everybody else does. They don't have the time on the calendar for more than 10-12 fixtures.


----------



## Manfi

bezoomny said:


> Who made you the authority on which countries get to play football?


Well, you always hear people from the US talking about how a change in the game can make football more appealing! :um 
The US isn't just an ordinary country. It's the richest nation on earth w/ one of the largest populations. If the American FA speaks, FIFA has to listen!!

Real football fans know about the attempts made by the Americans in 1994 (USA 94) to make football a 3 period game to accommodate more commercial time!!!!!!!!!!:sus

Football is a religion all over this planet. People breath football! The beautiful game is about tradition. We grow up watching our favorite stars conquer the field and die a little bit when they retire. This is more than a game to us and we hate to loose it. 
It's obvious that the game isn't popular in NA and it's even more obvious that the game is being pushed down people's throats for the sake of making money. There is a lot of money to be made in this game and I hate to see the beautiful game be destroyed in the process.


----------



## Manfi

Anyways, I'm staying up for the Holland game! Can't wait any longer.


----------



## PGVan

ORANJE BOVEN!!!! :boogie



Manfi said:


> It's obvious that the game isn't popular in NA


This is just flat-out wrong.

In Canada, it is very popular. Toronto FC sells out every match they play at home. When Vancouver and Montreal get into the MLS, they will have large crowds as well. There are pockets in the US where MLS gets good crowds and places where it doesn't. However, to say that the sport is not popular in North America is just wrong. Some bars and pubs are opening for morning matches and getting special government permission to sell beer during World Cup matches that start every day between 430 and 730am, depending where you are on the continent.

I work in sports retail (British Columbia, Canada for the record), and for the last 3 weeks, World Cup product has been the vast majority of our sales.


----------



## CeilingStarer

I watched the Aussie's get bent over at 3:30am this morning (good old timezones). "Soccer" isn't really that popular in Australia, but I do get in to the World Cup (especially since Australia qualified and almost went the whole way in 2006).

If we just could have got those early scores in, the game might have taken a different turn. It was just a ****ing procession after Germany kicked the first. They're a pretty solid side though. Not amazingly skillful, but they just have solid defence and wear you down.


----------



## bezoomny

Manfi said:


> Well, you always hear people from the US talking about how a change in the game can make football more appealing! :um
> The US isn't just an ordinary country. It's the richest nation on earth w/ one of the largest populations. If the American FA speaks, FIFA has to listen!!
> 
> Real football fans know about the attempts made by the Americans in 1994 (USA 94) to make football a 3 period game to accommodate more commercial time!!!!!!!!!!:sus
> 
> Football is a religion all over this planet. People breath football! The beautiful game is about tradition. We grow up watching our favorite stars conquer the field and die a little bit when they retire. This is more than a game to us and we hate to loose it.
> It's obvious that the game isn't popular in NA and it's even more obvious that the game is being pushed down people's throats for the sake of making money. There is a lot of money to be made in this game and I hate to see the beautiful game be destroyed in the process.


Ah, someone's team didn't qualify. This must be what's going on with you. You're pissed that your team didn't qualify but the US did.


----------



## Manfi

PGVan said:


> ORANJE BOVEN!!!! :boogie
> 
> This is just flat-out wrong.
> 
> In Canada, it is very popular. Toronto FC sells out every match they play at home. When Vancouver and Montreal get into the MLS, they will have large crowds as well. There are pockets in the US where MLS gets good crowds and places where it doesn't. However, to say that the sport is not popular in North America is just wrong. Some bars and pubs are opening for morning matches and getting special government permission to sell beer during World Cup matches that start every day between 430 and 730am, depending where you are on the continent.
> 
> I work in sports retail (British Columbia, Canada for the record), and for the last 3 weeks, World Cup product has been the vast majority of our sales.


How much of that is b/c of immigrants? 
I played football since I was 14 (west van spurs, gold division) and every season 3/4 of the team were Koreans, Iranians, Italians and Brazilians!! The 1/4 that were "real" Canadians were all hockey rejects who were clue less about the game and all played in defense! Our coach and assistant coach were both dutch and our goalie coach was Italian. I remember Euro 2008 when me and my friends went to commercial drive to watch the games and everybody was either Asian or European!!
I can count the number of Canadian football fans (not recent immigrants) that I have met with my hand! There just isn't any love for this game I'm afraid. Watching the world cup every four years doesn't count.



bezoomny said:


> I think you need to get over yourself and realize that Americans, Canadians, and Mexicans have just as much right to play the game as the other countries do. It's the _World_ Cup, not the _whoever Manfi determines to be worthy_ Cup.


I wasn't talking about Mexicans, only Americans and Canadians. Mexicans adore this game and have contributed a lot to it. 
And I'm not determining anything. I'm simply telling you what the world thinks about America and football.


----------



## Manfi

bezoomny said:


> Ah, someone's team didn't qualify. This must be what's going on with you. You're pissed that your team didn't qualify but the US did.


Actually no.
You don't need to get so defensive. You could refute what I'm saying with a proper argument! I have no reason to be jealous of the US, the last time we met we beat you 2-1 (1998 WC). 
Anyways, I gave my reasons and there is no reason for you to get worked up about it. If you were an Asian or European you would know where I'm coming from.


----------



## Manfi

CeilingStarer said:


> I watched the Aussie's get bent over at 3:30am this morning (good old timezones). "Soccer" isn't really that popular in Australia, but I do get in to the World Cup (especially since Australia qualified and almost went the whole way in 2006).
> 
> If we just could have got those early scores in, the game might have taken a different turn. It was just a ****ing procession after Germany kicked the first. They're a pretty solid side though. Not amazingly skillful, but they just have solid defence and wear you down.


I was rooting for you guys today! We need Asian teams to do something here or we will loose our 4.5 spots for 2014 :no
You guys surprised me though. Australia's defense was horrid! The commentator said that Verbeek has made Australia more pragmatic and not so attack minded all the time but I didn't see any pragmatism. You don't go all out against Germany in your opening game.


----------



## bezoomny

Manfi said:


> Actually no.
> You don't need to get so defensive. You could refute what I'm saying with a proper argument! I have no reason to be jealous of the US, the last time we met we beat you 2-1 (1998 WC).
> Anyways, I gave my reasons and there is no reason for you to get worked up about it. If you were an Asian or European you would know where I'm coming from.


Is it lonely on your pedestal?

I'm not upset. You're just being thick, so I have to keep reiterating the same points. I'm just trying to make you see my point of view: you cannot claim ownership of a sport. It's people kicking around a ball, for God's sake. You cannot keep an entire country from playing it, or from competing in the World Cup. That goes against the whole point of the World Cup. How is this not a proper argument?

People always say that one of the great things about soccer is that it brings the world together, but you maintain that Americans and Canadians shouldn't be a part of that? That's sportsmanlike.


----------



## Manfi

bezoomny said:


> Is it lonely on your pedestal?
> 
> I'm not upset. You're just being thick, so I have to keep reiterating the same points. I'm just trying to make you see my point of view: you cannot claim ownership of a sport. It's people kicking around a ball, for God's sake. You cannot keep an entire country from playing it, or from competing in the World Cup. That goes against the whole point of the World Cup. How is this not a proper argument?
> 
> People always say that one of the great things about soccer is that it brings the world together, but you maintain that Americans and Canadians shouldn't be a part of that? That's sportsmanlike.


how is me hoping for smtg based on what I've seen over the years is gonna "keep an entire country from playing it"? 
And yes, football brings the world together and as I said earlier, I've learned more about this round planet b/c of football than I have from any class room and that is the main reason I don't want Americans in it. With the $ and influence of the United States I'm afraid we will loose the game to TV commercials, cheerleaders and new unwanted rules. 
btw, football isn't just people kicking a ball. With that comment you proved my point.


----------



## bezoomny

Manfi said:


> how is me hoping for smtg based on what I've seen over the years is gonna "keep an entire country from playing it"?
> And yes, football brings the world together and as I said earlier, I've learned more about this round planet b/c of football than I have from any class room and that is the main reason I don't want Americans in it. With the $ and influence of the United States I'm afraid we will loose the game to TV commercials, cheerleaders and new unwanted rules.
> btw, football isn't just people kicking a ball. With that comment you proved my point.


It's just a game. Let's stop derailing this thread and agree to disagree?


----------



## PGVan

Manfi said:


> How much of that is b/c of immigrants?
> I played football since I was 14 (west van spurs, gold division) and every season 3/4 of the team were Koreans, Iranians, Italians and Brazilians!! The 1/4 that were "real" Canadians were all hockey rejects who were clue less about the game and all played in defense! Our coach and assistant coach were both dutch and our goalie coach was Italian. I remember Euro 2008 when me and my friends went to commercial drive to watch the games and everybody was either Asian or European!!
> I can count the number of Canadian football fans (not recent immigrants) that I have met with my hand! There just isn't any love for this game I'm afraid. Watching the world cup every four years doesn't count.


You're way off base here. Obviously, most fans here side with their country of heritage. Lets be honest, every white person in North America has European roots somewhere down the line, whether they were born there or they are a 20th generation American or Canadian.

There is plenty of love for footy in Canada. Sold out matches at BMO Field, two more MLS expansion teams coming and my store's World Cup sales (along with many other sports retailers in Canada) are proof of that.

Now to the match that just ended...

- Slow start, but to win tournaments like this, patience is necessary. In the recent words of Ruud Gullit, the Oranje needs to learn to win 1-0 matches. Although today was 2-0, it was one of those matches where the high tempo attacking could not be relied upon and they had it in them to pull it out. Well done I say!

- Robin van Persie had a weak match. He held onto the ball too long a few times and he seemed a step in the wrong direction on a couple crosses. He'll work hard in training this week and be ready for Japan.

- No disrespect to Rafael van der Vaart, but Elia deserves a chance to start against Japan. As soon as he stepped onto the pitch you got the feeling he was going to do something nice, and I do wish the ball that eventually ended up on Kuyt's foot for the second goal would have gone in for Elia. They all count however, and his effort should not go unnoticed.


----------



## Harbinger

Manfi said:


> I have no reason to be jealous of the US, the last time we met we beat you 2-1 (1998 WC).


So, how many times did your team make it to the WC since then?



> And yes, football brings the world together and as I said earlier


Oh it brings the world together alright! :lol

On a second thought, you're right let's keep all that "passion" out of US.


----------



## Harbinger

PGVan said:


> two more MLS expansion teams coming and my store's World Cup sales (along with many other sports retailers in Canada) are proof of that.


Really? Because I keep hearing that MLS is dying and most likely the whole league is gonna fold in a near future.

Americans that are into soccer don't care much for a domestic league, they only watch UEFA teams.


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## coldsorehighlighter

I think Americans would be way better at soccer if the game of basketball hadn't be invented. Soccer is a cheap sport to play just like basketball, and imagine if all the current American NBA players were soccer players instead? LeBron and Dwayne Wade would be excellent soccer players.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I'm glad to see the Dutch win but this cup so far has been overly cautious, we need a few more performances like Germany & Argentina, a little more pace & fluidity



Harbinger said:


> Really? Because I keep hearing that MLS is dying and most likely the whole league is gonna fold in a near future.
> 
> Americans that are into soccer don't care much for a domestic league, they only watch UEFA teams.


They had a recent quarrel about wages in MLS but otherwise it's slowly but steadily gaining support. It'll never be as good as the Euro leagues but I think it manages do to the mixed heritage of many people in North America. There is a fan base it's just doesn't have the voice of the main American sports of basketball, baseball, & football


----------



## anonymid

Manfi said:


> North Americans will never understand the beautiful game.
> Football is more than a sport. It's about history, passion and tradition.


Every sport is "more than a sport" to the people who love it, including the sports that are popular in the U.S. and Canada (basketball, baseball, American football, hockey, etc.). History, passion, and tradition are not unique to soccer.

It's true that most Americans (myself included) will probably never understand the beautiful game of soccer--but it's for the same reasons that most Europeans will never understand the beautiful game of baseball. It's simply cultural.


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## bezoomny

Watching everyone trip and fall all over each other made the Italy/Paraguay game about a million times more entertaining.


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## moxosis

Dutch didn't play 100% but won 2-0 very impressive, and they pressed the ball in the first min and Danmark had to pass the ball out, it's Johann Cruyff-Barcelona pressing-passing ball, Elia as a fresh sub very fast player, and Kuyt always alert. Danmark was hoping for a 0-0 draw I think, or counter attack goal.


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## PGVan

Harbinger said:


> Really? Because I keep hearing that MLS is dying and most likely the whole league is gonna fold in a near future.


Whoever told you that must have been drunk. As one example of how the league is growing, Thierry Henry is close to being transfered to New York Red Bulls from Barcelona.

MLS won't ever be among the level of the EPL, La Liga, etc., however it is a good quality league. Attendance so far in 2010 averages roughly 16,000 per game, which is about 10% over last season to this point, and it is roughly on par with the NHL in the United States. The worst teams for attendance are San Jose and Kansas City (around 9,000 per game each), but the best is Seattle, who averages over 36,000 per game.


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## PHD in Ebonics

moxosis said:


> Dutch didn't play 100% but won 2-0 very impressive, and they pressed the ball in the first min and Danmark had to pass the ball out, it's Johann Cruyff-Barcelona pressing-passing ball, Elia as a fresh sub very fast player, and Kuyt always alert. Danmark was hoping for a 0-0 draw I think, or counter attack goal.


Elia should start ahead of Kuyt and be the direct temporary replacement for Robben. He brings in explosiveness that no other player (except for Robben) in the Dutch team has.


----------



## PHD in Ebonics

It's sad to see that we had to tie on yet another error due to the ball. But Italy always starts out slow in most tournaments, and gets progressively stronger, so I have faith we can re-peat.

Forza Azzurri!!


----------



## PGVan

I think it's about time players stop complaining about the ball. It's been out for a while, and suddenly now there are complaints?

The damned horns on the other hand, those need to go. They completely ruin the crowd atmosphere, and as much as Sepp Blatter wants to use it as an excuse, they are not cultural to South Africans. I see kids at hockey games in Canada with those stupid horns.



Psychedelic Breakfast said:


> Elia should start ahead of Kuyt and be the direct temporary replacement for Robben. He brings in explosiveness that no other player (except for Robben) in the Dutch team has.


I wouldn't put him ahead of Kuyt. The Dirk Kuyt who plays for the Oranje is not the Dirk Kuyt who plays for Liverpool. Kuyt has been a good producing player for Holland. I do agree that Elia should be Robben's temporary replacement instead of Rafael van der Vaart. Once Elia came on to get van der Vaart out of Sneijder's way, they immediately started threatening the Danish goal.


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## coldsorehighlighter

I didn't mind the horns at first, because I've always wanted to know what the inside of a beehive sounds like, and now I know without having to go stick my head inside one.
But as the games get more important, I'm going to start wondering if maybe sticking my head in a beehive would be less annoying than those horns for 90 minutes.


----------



## matty

WOW, Elia was an incredible sub, loved watching him get the ball. van persie was a little disappointing. But the dutch overall were impressive

I am sick of the horns and it is only the first week.


----------



## AussiePea

Good luck banning the horns, put simply, if they try to ban them they will not succeed.


----------



## matty

As nice as it would be to ban them.. like you said ospi it will never happen. Adds to the buzz of the crowd. 

Anyone gone to a pub for any big matches? I was in the city for the aus vs ger game and it was the most amazing feeling... well until kick off :lol


----------



## matty

I have a feeling Ivory Coast could get up over Portugal.. Not a great feeling but if there is going to be an upset this may be the game.


----------



## AstronautsGrapes

i not big on soccer, but im trying to get into this.
anyway...can someone tell me what a howler is? i googled it but couldnt find anything.


----------



## matty

Howler 
A sporting term used to describe a particularly terrible piece of play, usually due to the stupidity of a single player. A howler is not incurred through bad luck or even poor play, but rather through absolute amateurish hopelessness. A howler in soccer for example would be if a completely unmarked goalkeeper who was under no pressure inexplicably fumbled a simple ball into the path of an opponent who subsequently scored.

GREEN :lol I have seen a lot worse but he gifted USA a goal


----------



## bezoomny

I'm already getting tired of hearing about Cristiano Ronaldo (especially his love life, how is it relevant to anything, ESPN?). Gag.


----------



## TheatreOfDreams89

its been a pretty boring start to the world cup. Hopefully things will get better once brazil and spain start playing.


----------



## whiterabbit

Come on, North Korea!


----------



## moxosis

Cristiano Ronaldo I don't want to hate much but no surprise he got yellow card for BS. You see him fall, and aww it's a free kick and yellow card on the Ivory Coast player, than in re-play the Ivory coast player didn't even touch him. Ronaldo has stronger legs than most players it is a shame how disgracefully he falls just to fish a yellow card and free kick, but hey that is football if you can cheat the ref, it seem to be ok. Maradona got away with handball in 1990, and Henry for France against Ireland and Rivaldo 2002 world cup. No punishment at all afterward.


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## moxosis

whiterabbit said:


> Come on, North Korea!


 they will hopefully play their famous 9-0-1 defend the gateway to North Korea. Just kidding.


----------



## PGVan

FIFA is a ****ing joke... Apparently if you're a group of Dutch female fans, you can't wear matching orange skirts if they're from a beer company not named Budweiser...

_Fifa is considering legal action against a Dutch brewery it accuses of using women fans to advertise its beer at the World Cup.

Stewards ejected 36 Dutch supporters from Monday's match between the Netherlands and Denmark midway through the second half in Johannesburg.

All were dressed identically in tightly hugging short orange dresses, sold as part of a gift pack by a Dutch brewery.

A brewery representative dismissed Fifa's concerns as "ridiculous".

The Cup's authorised beer is Budweiser which pays millions of dollars for the privilege.

With a large chunk of Fifa's revenue coming from selling marketing rights, it vigorously pursues anyone who tries to associate themselves with the tournament, the BBC's Jonah Fisher reports.

Earlier this year a local low-cost airline was forced to withdraw an advertising campaign which boasted that it was the "Unofficial National Carrier of the You-Know-What".

'Clear ambush'
The women, seated near the front, were picked up by TV cameras.

"What seems to have happened is that there was a clear ambush marketing activity by a Dutch brewery company," said Fifa spokesman Nicholas Maingot.

"What we are doing actually at the moment is that we are looking into all available legal remedies against this brewery."

Mr Maingot said that none of the women had been arrested.

However, they were reportedly taken to a Fifa office where police quizzed them about the dresses and asked if they worked for the brewery, Bavaria.

Bavaria board member Peer Swinkels told Reuters news agency that Fifa's reaction was "ridiculous".

"Fifa does not have the monopoly on orange and people have the freedom to wear what they want," he said._

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/africa/10321668.stm


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Brazil is great to watch when in their stride but I never want them to win unless they've had to work hard for it & the Koreans definitely made them work. It was nice that the Koreans didn't lay down & got a consolation goal as well. I don't see Maicon play too often but when I do & he scores it's always a great goal, he had a great run & awareness to get that one today. Kaka had an off night while Robinho & Bastos had some nice moments.

Gervinho had a great game for the Ivory Coast today, it's too bad it didn't yield some fruit. Drobga did get to play today but wasn't of too much influence when he came on as they couldn't get the ball to him. Kolo Toure was also solid at the back. Ronaldo was also pretty quiet but if he had scored that rocket what a different game it would have been.

The Kiwi's dramatic equalizer was almost an exact replica of Slovakia's goal, & was a nice way for that game to end.

That's my take on the day's events


----------



## PHD in Ebonics

PGVan said:


> I wouldn't put him ahead of Kuyt. The Dirk Kuyt who plays for the Oranje is not the Dirk Kuyt who plays for Liverpool. Kuyt has been a good producing player for Holland. I do agree that Elia should be Robben's temporary replacement instead of Rafael van der Vaart. Once Elia came on to get van der Vaart out of Sneijder's way, they immediately started threatening the Danish goal.


I'm not going to disagree, not only because you're dutch, but also because like with Lampard and Gerrard, Van der Vaart doesn't play so great alongside Sneijder.

I also hate those damn vuvuzela things, they take away the beauty of hearing the crowd chant or hearing roars when a goal or nice play is made. The players say they can't communicate with one another in the pitch. That said, I think it would be a shame if they were banned. This is Africa's World Cup, and they have the right to celebrate it however they want to.

I'm especially excited for tomorrow's Honduras-Chile match. Something tells me this will be a high scoring, and exciting game.


----------



## moxosis

Awful Boring World Cup 2010? In the world cup 1990 there were 2,2 goals scored per game that is one of the lowest, so far this WC 1,6 goals per game. Now people would say that defense is to blame, but how about this, new ball, why in the world would you have a new ball? If NBA was going into the finals and then ohh we have a new ball, the ball will reduce the entertainment of the game, 20% less scored baskets and 20% of passes will not be complete.

Complete passes in this world cup are the lowest. And goal kicks going out to goal kick on the other side. For me this has been 20% less entertaining football from other WCs and Soccer/football don't need to be less entertaining.

*I just think they should have used the same ball that teams are used to so we would have entertaining football, I have nothing against the new ball just don't want to see teams get used to the ball in a competition and making so many mistakes while they are.*

2006 first round 16 games 39 goals = 2,4 goals per game
2010 so far 14 games 23 goals = 1,6 goals per game

_"Edit: I got to stop ranting "_


----------



## Canadian Brotha

On the subject of the ball it's kind crazy that they design one for each cup, seems to me they should simply change the logo on the ball used in the Champions League that season, it's the highest club competition so surely that ball is worthy of World Cup use


----------



## PGVan

The ball is crazy, but I see no excuses when players, leagues and teams (even domestically) have had plenty of time to use it. It's not as if the Jabulani was held hostage from them until WC kickoff. From what I hear, the MLS has used it all season, and there have been no complaints. Why couldn't other leagues use it when it was released?



Psychedelic Breakfast said:


> I also hate those damn vuvuzela things, they take away the beauty of hearing the crowd chant or hearing roars when a goal or nice play is made. The players say they can't communicate with one another in the pitch. That said, I think it would be a shame if they were banned. This is Africa's World Cup, and they have the right to celebrate it however they want to.


My whole issue is not the players. Noise is a part of sports, and if the players at this level cannot handle it, they need to find their own solutions. Patrice Evra was crying about how France couldn't sleep because they were being blown on the streets at 6:00am... have the French never heard of ear plugs to help them sleep?

My issue is with how they take away from the football crowd atmosphere, and how these horns are just not cultural in any way, and that's the excuse FIFA is using to continue to allow them into stadiums. I can't even use the word "vuvuzela" to describe them because they're just 10-cent plastic horns that can be found at many sporting events in many countries around the world.


----------



## kosherpiggy

Portugal broke my heart  & Brasil repaired it . I was so mad at Ronaldo lol


----------



## Manfi

moxosis said:


> they will hopefully play their famous 9-0-1 defend the gateway to North Korea. Just kidding.


LMAO
This is exactly how they qualified from Asia! Nobody parks the bus better than these guys! At least Greece tries to get ahead before they do their thing but these North Koreans defend from start to finish. 
I'm really surprised that Brazil allowed them to score but then again, Brazil isn't known for its defense.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A few things I have to get off my chest
-Those horns are pissing me off big time
-I can't believe they can't fill the stadiums!!!  African WC lol
-Italians are still the same lovable diving cheaters lol


----------



## whiterabbit

PGVan said:


> My issue is with how they take away from the football crowd atmosphere, and how these horns are just not cultural in any way, and that's the excuse FIFA is using to continue to allow them into stadiums. I can't even use the word "vuvuzela" to describe them because they're just 10-cent plastic horns that can be found at many sporting events in many countries around the world.


I agree that they're annoying and detract from the atmosphere rather than add to it, but I don't think anyone is arguing that horns are exclusive to South Africa, just that it's been part of their footballing tradition to blow incessently on such instruments, en masse, throughout games. It's a shame they don't sing instead, but unless these things become hugely popular at English and European football games, which they never will, then I don't really care about them. I can put up with them for one World Cup.

Actually, I have heard a few stories about people selling them in this country and predicting they'll be popular next season. I've seen kids with horns at football games before but I can't imagine anyone using them on the scale of the South Africans here. I like to think any adult bringing one into a ground will have it broken over their head by the nearest fan who _isn't_ a ****.


----------



## LostProphet

Vuvuzelas have always been a huge part of soccer in Southern Africa. I know they are annoying but yes, it is a cultural thing. The World Cup is being held in South Africa, of course they're going to be there. Get over it.

LMAO at that diving vid. What a joke :teeth


----------



## PGVan

How is a plastic horn, seen at various sporting events worldwide, cultural to South Africa? The only difference is that South African fans blow on them for 90 minutes instead of watching the match.

When Tshambalala scored against Mexico, there should have been a huge increase in decibel level with a big roar from the crowd. It didn't happen. It was just a continuous buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It's disgusting.


----------



## LostProphet

It's a cultural thing because it was a part of any soccer game there long before the World Cup was even decided to be held there. It is _a part of_ South African soccer whether you like it or not. Yes, I know it's annoying but they don't do it to please or displease you.


----------



## Manfi

PGVan said:


> How is a plastic horn, seen at various sporting events worldwide, cultural to South Africa? The only difference is that South African fans blow on them for 90 minutes instead of watching the match.
> 
> When Tshambalala scored against Mexico, there should have been a huge increase in decibel level with a big roar from the crowd. It didn't happen. It was just a continuous buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It's disgusting.


absolutely 
I remember these horns in Iranian stadiums but it was only a random guy among a billion other ppl and he would only blow it when the opposing fans were cheering to annoy them lol

and lool at your continuous buzzzzzz comment, made me chuckle.
reminds me of these


----------



## ben91

I don't care if they are part of South African soccer, they should have been banned. Everybody - the players, commentators, crowd - say the same thing.

Also, let's hope the score lines improve over 0-0 or 1-1.


----------



## Micronian

I think singing in chorus for 90min. should be banned. There's nothing less manly than singing along to a soccer game...


----------



## LostProphet

ben91 said:


> I don't care if they are part of South African soccer, they should have been banned.


Lol that's just disrespectful. The country is holding the World Cup, they should be allowed to carry out their traditions. People need to stop being babies and QQing about it, seriously. If you're at a game just wear ear plugs or if you're watching it at home just mute it if it bothers you so much.

BTW those comics are hilarious LOL


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I find it amazing how much people are disturbed by the Vuvuzelas, I completely tune them out watching the games, it's only during brief moments I'm actually consciously aware of them. It could be because I watched the Africa Cup Of Nations as well though, maybe I got a preparation course with that.

Seems to me that the Europeans sing team/player songs & the Africans blow on their horns, to each footballing continent their own. I think people are just dissatisfied with the football they are getting so far, I bet if there were goals galore it would be said there's good reason to blow on horns for 90 minutes


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I dunno how you can compare singing songs to blowing a horn for 90 straight minutes.
I love the "Don't like it, don't watch it" attitude, too. If everyone who doesn't like the sound of having your head inside a beehive didn't watch the games, how much money do you think this month-long tournament would lose?

Anyways, the first week, the buzz sound was deafening but they've done something to help mute it cause it wasn't that bad today.


----------



## whiterabbit

Canadian Brotha said:


> I find it amazing how much people are disturbed by the Vuvuzelas, I completely tune them out watching the games, it's only during brief moments I'm actually consciously aware of them. It could be because I watched the Africa Cup Of Nations as well though, maybe I got a preparation course with that.


I tune out too. I'm used to doing that with annoying commentators. I mean, if I was at an actual game, I'd be really annoyed by them. I don't like the "horn atmosphere" at all. But I wouldn't call for a ban on the other side of the world from my place in front of the television in my living room. I think that's a bit ridiculous. I also wouldn't call for a ban if I was attending the World Cup in South Africa. If they want to blow horns, let them blow horns. It's what they do at games. Some people would call for a ban on obscene language in football chants. I'd tell them to **** off, and I hope South Africans are doing the same.

Again, I would denounce life if they became popular in England, but otherwise it's not a big deal.

Anyway, Spain lost to Switzerland! How about that?


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I like to sit in front of my TV with the volume up high when I do watch sports, so it just sucks that I can't do that with the World Cup.
I don't know much about soccer, but I do know Switzerland is not supposed to beat Spain at the World Cup. They played really tight defense.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

whiterabbit said:


> I tune out too. I'm used to doing that with annoying commentators. I mean, if I was at an actual game, I'd be really annoyed by them. I don't like the "horn atmosphere" at all. But I wouldn't call for a ban on the other side of the world from my place in front of the television in my living room. I think that's a bit ridiculous. I also wouldn't call for a ban if I was attending the World Cup in South Africa. If they want to blow horns, let them blow horns. It's what they do at games. Some people would call for a ban on obscene language in football chants. I'd tell them to **** off, and I hope South Africans are doing the same.
> 
> Again, I would denounce life if they became popular in England, but otherwise it's not a big deal.


Indeed being there the horns might be much more significant to me but still this is their celebration so I would likely just get a beer & get a horn & enjoy the party.

I can see the shot now watching a premiership game where an English fan grabs someone's Vuvuzela & snaps it in half over their knee, that would be priceless, haha. They aren't going to take off in Europe, people won't stand for it



the cheat said:


> I like to sit in front of my TV with the volume up high when I do watch sports, so it just sucks that I can't do that with the World Cup.


I'm watching the games in surround & cranked to the max, it's the best way, still, the horns go in one ear & out the other



whiterabbit said:


> Anyway, Spain lost to Switzerland! How about that?





the cheat said:


> I don't know much about soccer, but I do know Switzerland is not supposed to beat Spain at the World Cup. They played really tight defense.


The Swiss shutting out the Spaniards is quite something really, they just couldn't pass around them & when they managed to the Spaniards weren't on form for the final task. An in form Torres with that chance he had would have scored


----------



## kosherpiggy

I wanted Spain to win, but I like Switzerland too 
I'm so proud of Uruguay


----------



## thesilenthunter90

haha spain, delighted they lost the arrogant gits


----------



## Micronian

Just like France '98, a freak goal in the first game sent Spain reeling. They were so pressured, they never recovered from the shock of that first game.

2010: They lose again by a freak goal after dominating the first game. I wonder if they'll give in to tradition and pack it in.


----------



## PGVan

LostProphet said:


> It's a cultural thing because it was a part of any soccer game there long before the World Cup was even decided to be held there. It is _a part of_ South African soccer whether you like it or not. Yes, I know it's annoying but they don't do it to please or displease you.


How can it be South African culture to blow on 10-cent Chinese-made plastic horns that are found at sporting events all over the world?

I'm also sick of the bunch who are complaining about a "lack of goals". Entertainment in sports should not be about a high total on the scoreboard.


----------



## Scorpius

PGVan said:


> I'm also sick of the bunch who are complaining about a "lack of goals". Entertainment in sports should not be about a high total on the scoreboard.


The lack of goals isn't the issue i agree...but overall the gameplay was a bit boring and slow in most games (the ones that i saw at least)

I think because everyone is just playing too careful at first but then they will all have no choice but to be more offensive because a draw isn't going to help anyone much..so hopefully it's going to get little faster and more interesting soon


----------



## LostProphet

PGVan said:


> How can it be South African culture to blow on 10-cent Chinese-made plastic horns that are found at sporting events all over the world?


You're just asking the same question as your last post but just worded slightly differently. And I already responded to that.

Whatever, we can agree to disagree.


----------



## Manfi

Canadian Brotha said:


> I find it amazing how much people are disturbed by the Vuvuzelas, I completely tune them out watching the games, it's only during brief moments I'm actually consciously aware of them. It could be because I watched the Africa Cup Of Nations as well though, maybe I got a preparation course with that.
> 
> Seems to me that the Europeans sing team/player songs & the Africans blow on their horns, to each footballing continent their own.* I think people are just dissatisfied with the football they are getting so far, I bet if there were goals galore it would be said there's good reason to blow on horns for 90 minutes*


no man that's not it. 
I also tune out the horns for the entire match but then I think how much better the game would be if we were able to hear the fans! 
Singing is not unique to Europeans! Have you heard South Americans and Asians? Every continent sings except Africa which is quite ironic cuz Africans are known for their dancing and singing. Just imagine how disappointed the Chileans were today. There were tens of thousands of them and who knows how much money they had spent to get there. They were singing and cheering their team but the stupid horns were muting everything. It ruins the atmosphere.



Scorpius said:


> The lack of goals isn't the issue i agree...but overall the gameplay was a bit boring and slow in most games (the ones that i saw at least)
> 
> I think because everyone is just playing too careful at first but then they will all have no choice but to be more offensive because a draw isn't going to help anyone much..so hopefully it's going to get little faster and more interesting soon


well they have to play cautiously and defensively. It takes countries 2-3 years to qualify for the world cup and you want to get smtg for all that hard work. Remember that many of these teams have an entire country to please and their country men and women don't give a rats *** about beautiful game play, just points. Remember the Columbian player who was shot dead after they went out in the first round? Honduras invaded El Salvador after they lost the game in the WC (known as _La guerra del fútbol_)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In many countries the govt closes schools and changes work hours so that everybody can watch the games. When you have this much pressure on you all you care about is points, nothing else.


----------



## Manfi

LOOOOOOOOOOL










this pic might be a little racist but it's funny as hell
If anybody is offended I will remove it


----------



## Manfi

*Bloody ****ing fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!
*


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## Manfi




----------



## PGVan

LostProphet said:


> You're just asking the same question as your last post but just worded slightly differently. And I already responded to that.
> 
> Whatever, we can agree to disagree.


I don't feel my question has been answered. lol.

When something is widely available, used (and banned in a lot of stadiums and arenas) around the world, how can one country claim it to be cultural to their football watching?

I will maintain that with a constant 90-minute blaring of the horns, the fans are not watching the match.

I want to be able to hear my fellow Oranje supporters sing our national anthem late during the match. Thanks to these disgraceful horns, they won't even be able to hear themselves.


----------



## Scorpius

Manfi said:


> well they have to play cautiously and defensively. It takes countries 2-3 years to qualify for the world cup and you want to get smtg for all that hard work. Remember that many of these teams have an entire country to please and their country men and women don't give a rats *** about beautiful game play, just points. Remember the Columbian player who was shot dead after they went out in the first round? Honduras invaded El Salvador after they lost the game in the WC (known as _La guerra del fútbol_)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In many countries the govt closes schools and changes work hours so that everybody can watch the games. When you have this much pressure on you all you care about is points, nothing else.


Actually most soccer fans and anyone that watches cares about beautiful game play...it's the team that usually only cares about points because for them it's more about strategy and winning

The problem is that with every new world cup every team plays more cautiously and defensively because this is the nature of competition...but i hope they don't forget that the best way to defend is to attack...and this is the mentality i hope to see

Oh and that Columbian player was shot because he scored a goal in his own team..but all those crazy things always happened in soccer...
I understand strategy is more important to win...it's just a pity that everyone has to be on his guard like that just to win


----------



## Manfi

Scorpius said:


> *Actually most soccer fans and anyone that watches cares about beautiful game play*...it's the team that usually only cares about points because for them it's more about strategy and winning
> 
> The problem is that with every new world cup every team plays more cautiously and defensively because this is the nature of competition...but i hope they don't forget that the best way to defend is to attack...and this is the mentality i hope to see
> 
> Oh and that Columbian player was shot because he scored a goal in his own team..but all those crazy things always happened in soccer...
> I understand strategy is more important to win...it's just a pity that everyone has to be on his guard like that just to win


That's just in NA. If you live in a country where honor=success in football then you will know exactly what I mean. In many places football is everything but a sport. 
In Asia, Europe and Latin America some games are more than football. I'm sure you guys have seen and know all about English football hooligans. Now imagine that times a hundred. I follow Iranian, Turkish and Greek derbies so I will use them as an example. Each country has a famous derby and it always ends up with hoards of of people going nuts after the game. In a Turkish derby a while ago they set the entire stadium on fire, no joke! This is what I mean when I say football is more than a game. The players are also from those respective countries so they have the same mentality of the people.





look at this passion! This isn't about football! It's more than that so results are everything. It's the same in the WC. 




120 000 fans packed this stadium for a WC qualifying in 2006! I remeber that day. One official said that they could have packed the stadium with 500 000 people if it had capacity loool 
Iran won the game that day but if we had lost these masses would have rioted like they always do when we loose. If American players had this much pressure then they would be the same.


----------



## Scorpius

Don't know what made u assume I'm talking about NA..lol
well i'm originally from egypt...one of the most passionate countries about soccer..3 african cups in a row without one loss and total domination of Africa in soccer is honor and success..lol

The fans really like to see their teams playing well not just win by any means..and i know what u mean by some games are more than just games but that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about..

All I'm saying is i would like to see more teams playing little faster and more aggressively like Spain..even though i haven't watched the game and they lost...but i heard they put on a good show..and this is what most fans and I would like to see that's all..


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Manfi said:


> no man that's not it.
> I also tune out the horns for the entire match but then I think how much better the game would be if we were able to hear the fans!
> Singing is not unique to Europeans! Have you heard South Americans and Asians? Every continent sings except Africa which is quite ironic cuz Africans are known for their dancing and singing. Just imagine how disappointed the Chileans were today. There were tens of thousands of them and who knows how much money they had spent to get there. They were singing and cheering their team but the stupid horns were muting everything. It ruins the atmosphere.


My point wasn't that singing is unique to Europeans it's simply that horns have little significance to my enjoying of the game & that it amazes me that it has such an effect on people. I highly doubt the Chileans were disappointed because you couldn't hear them sing as their team won. It's a month of football, you'll get your singing atmosphere back soon enough with whatever leagues you watch for the club seasons. Besides, it's not like it's only the Africans blowing those horns anyway. I digress though, those who want to spend this world cup upset about horns are free to do so, I'll stick enjoying the football & the features on players/countries/fans that are there


----------



## Canadian Brotha

It's a terrible year to be a fan of the French, their jerseys looks good, the squad looks good on paper but on the pitch they are sluggish & uninspired. I've been holding off laying it on the coach but he should have been screaming on the sidelines reminding those players of the significance of the game. So much talent all around that looked like amateurs. Je ne comprends pas, pourquoi les bleus? pourquoi?! 

Then Nigeria shoot themselves in the foot & allow Greece to come to life & only shortly after they would have had them as deflated as France have been. Credit to the Greek manager for seeing their chance making the change & getting them in motion though when they came alive they looked decent. I can't remember if Samaras was on in the first game but if not he definitely should be next time, he's a great inspiration for the team on the pitch. It's sad that Nigeria are essentially done because their keeper Enyeama has been the best to date keeping cool & making saves left, right, & centre


----------



## thesilenthunter90

i like the vuvuzuels *ducks and runs for cover*


----------



## PGVan

Canadian Brotha said:


> It's a terrible year to be a fan of the French, their jerseys looks good, the squad looks good on paper but on the pitch they are sluggish & uninspired. I've been holding off laying it on the coach but he should have been screaming on the sidelines reminding those players of the significance of the game. So much talent all around that looked like amateurs. Je ne comprends pas, pourquoi les bleus? pourquoi?!


It's been a terrible 2-3 years to be a fan of the French. Raymond Domenech should have been fired immediately following EURO 2008. It's clear that he has no respect from his players. The man has admitted using astrology reports to decide on his Starting XI! They barely even qualified for the World Cup, and most will argue that Ireland would have beat them had Henry's handball in the playoff been called.

Once Laurent Blanc takes over after the World Cup, France will be a world power again.


----------



## Harbinger

thesilenthunter90 said:


> i like the vuvuzuels *ducks and runs for cover*


Then enjoy browsing the new SAS


----------



## Canadian Brotha

PGVan said:


> It's been a terrible 2-3 years to be a fan of the French. Raymond Domenech should have been fired immediately following EURO 2008. It's clear that he has no respect from his players. The man has admitted using astrology reports to decide on his Starting XI! They barely even qualified for the World Cup, and most will argue that Ireland would have beat them had Henry's handball in the playoff been called.
> 
> Once Laurent Blanc takes over after the World Cup, France will be a world power again.


I don't follow the international scene between the Euro & World Cup so although I hear tidbits here & there seeing that disgrace in action has been tough as hell. The Irish must have their hats off to Karma


----------



## SpunUndone

Go USA!


----------



## veron

I watched today's match between Serbia and Germany... and now I'm happy that Serbia won :boogie Our guys played rather badly after scoring the goal; it's amazing that the Germans didn't end up scoring a few of their own. There were some pretty close calls.


----------



## SpunUndone

OMG the ref for the USA game sucked. We won that.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

SpunUndone said:


> OMG the ref for the USA game sucked. We won that.


I agree, there was no distinct foul, everyone was pushing & holding except Edu who made it through the crowd & tucked in the cross


----------



## bezoomny

WTF?!

I don't suppose there's any way for FIFA to appeal the goal and suspend Coulibaly, is there?


----------



## PGVan

England is doing their best France impression at this tournament.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

Man...England is not looking good. So everyone in that group has 2 draw's?


----------



## Canadian Brotha

PGVan said:


> England is doing their best France impression at this tournament.


Again, je ne comprends pas! There should have been a complete change of tactics at half time, where's the passion of the English & French?


----------



## Banzai

England vs Algeria - such a crap match. I think England seems to have lost their confidence...


----------



## tutliputli

Banzai said:


> England vs Algeria - such a crap match. I think England seems to have lost their confidence...


Yup, that was a boring game. England are **** at defence, I must say.


----------



## bezoomny

YES! England chokes again.


----------



## thesilenthunter90

england wtf. that was pathetic. rooney, lamps ,gerrard were all useless


----------



## Scorpius

Yeah England seems like they have no motivation other than getting a draw every game and collecting 3 points or something..lol

And GJ Algeria even though you took our spot in WC..lol

I really liked the Chile team and #7 is an excellent player

Also congrats to Mexico..they played overall better than France and they deserved the win

France is really helpless this WC without Henry and Zidane


----------



## bezoomny

Scorpius said:


> Yeah England seems like they have no motivation other than getting a draw every game and collecting 3 points or something..lol
> 
> And GJ Algeria even though you took our spot in WC..lol


It's really anyone's game. We could easily advance, but the Algeria game is a must-win (or tie depending on how England fares).


----------



## moxosis

bezoomny said:


> WTF?!
> 
> I don't suppose there's any way for FIFA to appeal the goal and suspend Coulibaly, is there?


Nope, thats how Football/Soccer is, it's a cheaters game, Hand of God by Maradona, and how the Irish were cheated by France in the qualifying for world cup, FIFA did nothing.

It's a cheaters game because FIFA does nothing. It shouldn't be a cheaters game.
Ireland would have done much better in this world cup than the disrespectful french players.


----------



## Paper Samurai

moxosis said:


> Nope, thats how Football/Soccer is, it's a cheaters game, Hand of God by Maradona, and how the Irish were cheated by France in the qualifying for world cup, FIFA did nothing.
> 
> It's a cheaters game because FIFA does nothing. It shouldn't be a cheaters game.
> Ireland would have done much better in this world cup than the disrespectful french players.


The argument for is that allowing retrospective decision altering would well and truely open up a huge can of worms - practically every decision would be questioned and appealed against. As it stands only violent and dangerous play can be punished past the event - and that's probably the best way to go about it. Not perfect - but nothing is :b


----------



## bezoomny

Can they at least keep Coulibaly from ref'ing another WC match?


----------



## whiterabbit

It's times like this I'm glad I'm completely indifferent towards England. 

The South American teams have been great to watch so far. I enjoyed Mexico the other day, and was glad to see a little bit of Javier Hernandez. He took his goal well, even if he was helped out a tiny bit by a statuesque French defence. 

Right, seven and one quarter hours until the first kick-off of the day. I'm so happy it's the weekend.


----------



## Micronian

moxosis said:


> Nope, thats how Football/Soccer is, it's a cheaters game, Hand of God by Maradona, and how the Irish were cheated by France in the qualifying for world cup, FIFA did nothing.
> 
> It's a cheaters game because FIFA does nothing. It shouldn't be a cheaters game.
> Ireland would have done much better in this world cup than the disrespectful french players.


Every sport has its controversial moments. It's not just soccer.

I think all will be well with England. Though they have no attack (all they really have is wayne rooney, and he is super cold), they will have a better game against a more familiar european opponent.

To me, the biggest danger is if Algeria gives the US a hard time. The US really needs to go to the next round, otherwise it will stifle much momentum that soccer has created in the US the last few years.


----------



## PGVan

I'm a firm believer in looking at your own mistakes before anybody else's. No, I can't figure out where the foul on a US player was either, but if the US wouldn't have played a weak first half and gone down 2-0, they wouldn't have to worry about it. 

1.5 hours until kickoff! WIJ HOUDEN VAN ORANJE!!!:boogie


----------



## CeilingStarer

Soccoroos playing Ghana in 20 minutes... w00t! Man, I hope they have a better game plan than the Germany match.


----------



## PGVan

Gonna be mighty tough for Australia without Cahill.

Another positive match for the Oranje. I like our new attitude where the result comes first. Japan played their game plan to a tee and we managed to get the goal we needed to move to 6 points and a likely place in the Round of 16. Here's to a Denmark-Cameroon draw in a few hours to seal that up for us. :yes


----------



## veron

CeilingStarer said:


> Soccoroos playing Ghana in 20 minutes... w00t! Man, I hope they have a better game plan than the Germany match.


Hmm I think I'll catch a part of this match as well. It's in my interest that the Aussies win, or at least tie :yes


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Well Ghana have had the "hand of fortune" shine on them twice in this World Cup, if only they had the composure of Gyan from the spot in open play when they created chances. And what a terrible mistake by Kingson to let Australia score, so many keepers have been really shaky(mind you Kingson is known for that). I felt Australia were only going to grow stronger after that, but for that penalty.

The Oranje have grinded out another result & I'm happy to see that, the Japanese were very composed but their patience & a little luck paid off.

Now to await the Danes vs. Cameroon


----------



## thesilenthunter90

cameroon v denmark = potentially another boring match, I dont think I can take another one.

well done to anelka for telling domenech what he needed to be told, awful manager


----------



## whiterabbit

Ghana v Australia was a good game. Nice dancing from the Ghana players. They should score more often. And now Group D looks very interesting. I'd have said Germany and Serbia would go through before the tournament started but...eh, I suppose I'll stick to that. I think Serbia can outdo Australia, even assuming Australia manage to keep 11 men on the pitch. I also think Germany can handle Ghana, even if they don't have Klose up front.

I see Rooney has apologised for his remarks about the England fans booing. I can see both sides really. I'd never boo off a Man United team, no matter how terribly they played, because what's the point? It doesn't help at all. They're obviously already under a lot of pressure to do well, so more added pressure and criticism in the form of booing isn't likely to bring about a positive change. On the other hand, if you ever had a right to boo a team, it's after a performance as **** as England's was last night. It's not like the fans didn't give them a lot of vocal support throughout the game. They only booed right at the end. You can understand their frustration with the players and with the system that Capello chose to stick to despite it not working. But still, all things considered, I wouldn't have booed them. While they're still at the tournament they may as well give them their full support, and then they can pelt them with rotten tomatoes when they fly back into the country in disgrace if they want.

And things just keep getting worse for the French. Maybe they would have been better off if Henry had never handled the ball and this whole one-last-fiasco with Domenech had been skipped over. In the meantime, with Anelka gone, maybe Henry will actually be used now.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

You know this Cameroon/Denmark match is the first where both the star strikers profiled scored for their teams. Some defensive mistakes made for a nice end to end match & our first official comeback win at that


----------



## awl99

Usa


----------



## CeilingStarer

I was pretty pissed off with the red card on Harry Kewell in the Aussie/Ghana match. Fair enough for a penalty, but to red card another of our key players for the second week seems a bit excessive. There was a foul twice as bad as Cahill's, and the Ghana bloke only got a yellow card. I know that it's immature to complain about umpiring, but this prick ref really seemed to have it in for us. With only 10 men it was a struggle, after dominating the first 15 minutes.

So both Kewell and Moore will be out for the Serbia match. Ah well, still a chance I suppose.


----------



## veron

whiterabbit said:


> Nice dancing from the Ghana players. They should score more often.


:yes:boogie


----------



## PanicSwitch

I work at the stadium in Rustenburg, so I was up in the commentary positions and managed to watch the Ghana vs Australia game live, it was awesome!!!! Must admit the red card was unfortunate, but overall one of the best games of the worldcup so far! :boogie


----------



## moxosis

South American teams all look solid this world cup, at the moment they are all likely to go to the next round of 16. While big European teams are not at their best. I hope Chile can get a win against Switzerland. Could be a 0-0 game.


----------



## PGVan

Italy. :kma



CeilingStarer said:


> I was pretty pissed off with the red card on Harry Kewell in the Aussie/Ghana match. Fair enough for a penalty, but to red card another of our key players for the second week seems a bit excessive. There was a foul twice as bad as Cahill's, and the Ghana bloke only got a yellow card. I know that it's immature to complain about umpiring, but this prick ref really seemed to have it in for us. With only 10 men it was a struggle, after dominating the first 15 minutes.
> 
> So both Kewell and Moore will be out for the Serbia match. Ah well, still a chance I suppose.


A handball on the line is always a red card. I've never seen one not given in that situation. The law might be harsh, but it's still a law, and honestly, had Kewell put his arms behind his back and gotten closer to the post, like most would do there, he wouldn't have had anything to worry about. Why should the referee be thinking to himself "this is Australia's second red card in a week, maybe it's excessive"? That's not his job.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

What drama in the Brazil/Ivory Coast game, a little bit of everything there. I knew as soon as I seen the Ivory Coast line up that a mistake was made, Gervinho was their best creative player in their first game & he didn't get the start, terrible decision there. Then there's the handballs of Fabiano's juggling goal which despite that was quite great to watch over & over in the replay. Then Gervinho proves his absolute value & Brazil fall asleep thinking the play has died allowing Drogba his moment. Then the Ivory Coast players hack down so many Brazilian players & Dunga nearly has a hernia shouting on the sideline. Then Keita pulls the biggest con I've ever seen & Dunga becomes the hulk as Kaka is sent off. The game didn't have everlasting flow but gave some of everything else


----------



## whiterabbit

Now _that_ was an undeserved red card. Jesus. Keita's a disgrace, and so is the referee.

Great game though.


----------



## PGVan

I'll sympathize with the referee here. Put yourself in a position where you have 22 players on the pitch, who at any moment, have no problem trying to embarrass the hell out of you by diving and/or faking an injury in an attempt to get you to make the wrong call. I officiate hockey, and diving is seriously the hardest penalty to call. You have to be 100% certain, and when you have a unique angle at full speed, it's so hard to judge.

FIFA should put a second referee on the pitch so it's not all on one referee trying to see it all himself. The assistant referees help out somewhat, but not near enough. 

In the end, FIFA should revoke Kaka's red card, but since they don't overturn yellow cards, it's going to have to stand unfortunately. Keita should be banned for the rest of the tournament, but we all know FIFA indirectly supports diving and faking injuries because they never punish these actions retroactively. FIFA is the real disgrace here, not the referee.


----------



## whiterabbit

But the referee can't give Kaka a yellow if he didn't even see the incident, which he didn't. Neither did his assistant who was on the other side of the pitch. I can't sympathise with him if he's given the card based on nothing but a reaction from Keita and other Ivory Coast players. The referees aren't so naive that they don't know players are sometimes trying to con them. If he didn't see anything and didn't know anything then he shouldn't have given anything. It would suck if Kaka had hit Keita and got away with not being sent off, but FIFA at least punish violent conduct retrospectively, so he would have been dealt with in the end.


----------



## PGVan

whiterabbit said:


> But the referee can't give Kaka a yellow if he didn't even see the incident, which he didn't. Neither did his assistant who was on the other side of the pitch. I can't sympathise with him if he's given the card based on nothing but a reaction from Keita and other Ivory Coast players. The referees aren't so naive that they don't know players are sometimes trying to con them. If he didn't see anything and didn't know anything then he shouldn't have given anything. It would suck if Kaka had hit Keita and got away with not being sent off, but FIFA at least punish violent conduct retrospectively, so he would have been dealt with in the end.


How do you know how he made the call? You're assuming he and his assistants (and the 4th official) didn't see anything. You're assuming Keita lying on the pitch made him think "Kaka must have done something worth a yellow card".

How do you know?

I'll play your assumption game, based on my experience of officiating sports... Lets assume the referee asked the assistant referee on the far side or the 4th official what happened to Keita, and was told that Kaka put his elbow into him. (They're wearing headsets, so you're not going to see one of them physically go to the referee to talk.) What choice would the referee have?

Of course referees know that players try to screw them over. However, when you see something once, at full speed, at an angle nobody else has, diving is so hard to distinguish. My only problem with FIFA referees and diving, is when they tell a player to get up because they're not buying it, they don't give the yellow card they're supposed to give.

FIFA needs to adopt a far better policy of retroactive punishment for diving and faking injuries. THAT is what makes referees look bad. Imagine yourself going to work every day, where everybody around you is trying to make you screw up. You're not going to get bitten every time, but it is going to happen.


----------



## bowlingpins

Other than a 2nd referee, a video review system that can be called upon in unclear situations would be nice.


----------



## PGVan

bowlingpins said:


> Other than a 2nd referee, a video review system that can be called upon in unclear situations would be nice.


That depends on what you're going to review. Using the NFL as an example, coaches can only challenge what involves no judgment, like a receiver catching the ball, in or out of bounds, etc. If a referee misses a holding, face masking, pass interference call (or any judgment penalty), it cannot be reviewed. Honestly, that's how it should be. If sports start allowing judgment calls to be reviewed, then why even have officials?


----------



## CopadoMexicano

Viva Mexico and USA. :O)


----------



## bowlingpins

PGVan said:


> That depends on what you're going to review. Using the NFL as an example, coaches can only challenge what involves no judgment, like a receiver catching the ball, in or out of bounds, etc. If a referee misses a holding, face masking, pass interference call (or any judgment penalty), it cannot be reviewed. Honestly, that's how it should be. If sports start allowing judgment calls to be reviewed, then why even have officials?


One way would be to have a limited number of reviews that are available per game that can be used in any situation at the discretion of the players/coach.

The officials also should also be able to access the video of the game if it helps them make better decisions. Doubtful how use this would be, considering the game is fast paced with decisions made within seconds.


----------



## Scorpius

Fabiano is the one that should have got a red card instead of kaka...he's the one that started all the drama...he keeps faking injuries whenever he can and he always gets away with fouls..and the 2nd goal he scored should not even count..what a joke..he should have got a yellow card there..instead the ref. jokes with him about it...I'm like like WTF...if the ref. from the US game was banned or punished for his wrong decision then this ref. should too..that was shameful....2 handballs and the ref. saw it..then he mention it to Fabiano and laughs..lame

Kaka deserved both yellow cards but if it wasn't for Fabiano's drama and dishonest goal the game would have been more fair


----------



## bezoomny

I think Kaka fell into the trap by shoving the player and screaming on his first yellow, and trying to run away after what turned out to be his second. My memory may be inaccurate, though.

All that chaos was weird though, it looked like both teams were about to throwdown and start beating each other up. I don't blame the ref for trying to end that quickly. Brazil should have been more mature and just gone on with the game.


----------



## PGVan

bowlingpins said:


> One way would be to have a limited number of reviews that are available per game that can be used in any situation at the discretion of the players/coach.
> 
> The officials also should also be able to access the video of the game if it helps them make better decisions. Doubtful how use this would be, considering the game is fast paced with decisions made within seconds.


That's what the NFL does... but again, if the play is a penalty based on referee's judgment, it's not reviewable.

I'm sensitive to this topic because I officiate ice hockey, and although I'll never get to the pro level, I have done some high levels in the sport. If my judgments were ever to be subjected to video review, I would quit. It's one thing to review a goal when the circumstances around it are not clear, but to review something based on a challenge from a team against my judgment, which means it could be something I saw clearly, is something I am 100% against.



Scorpius said:


> Fabiano is the one that should have got a red card instead of kaka...he's the one that started all the drama...he keeps faking injuries whenever he can and he always gets away with fouls..and the 2nd goal he scored should not even count..what a joke..he should have got a yellow card there..instead the ref. jokes with him about it...I'm like like WTF...if the ref. from the US game was banned or punished for his wrong decision then this ref. should too..that was shameful....2 handballs and the ref. saw it..then he mention it to Fabiano and laughs..lame
> 
> Kaka deserved both yellow cards but if it wasn't for Fabiano's drama and dishonest goal the game would have been more fair


How did Kaka deserve both yellow cards? He did nothing when Keita faked the injury. Keita ran into him. What was he supposed to do?

And the referee was clearly asking Fabiano if he handled the ball, then Fabiano was obviously saying no. The referee shouldn't have asked, because he will never get a player to admit that, but he was far from joking with him about it. He had a smile on his face, which wasn't the best way to go, but you and I both know that had he seen the handball, he would have called it.

Some people will rip on the referees just for the sake of having a scapegoat.


----------



## whiterabbit

PGVan said:


> How do you know how he made the call? You're assuming he and his assistants (and the 4th official) didn't see anything. You're assuming Keita lying on the pitch made him think "Kaka must have done something worth a yellow card".
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> I'll play your assumption game, based on my experience of officiating sports... Lets assume the referee asked the assistant referee on the far side or the 4th official what happened to Keita, and was told that Kaka put his elbow into him. (They're wearing headsets, so you're not going to see one of them physically go to the referee to talk.) What choice would the referee have?
> 
> Of course referees know that players try to screw them over. However, when you see something once, at full speed, at an angle nobody else has, diving is so hard to distinguish. My only problem with FIFA referees and diving, is when they tell a player to get up because they're not buying it, they don't give the yellow card they're supposed to give.
> 
> FIFA needs to adopt a far better policy of retroactive punishment for diving and faking injuries. THAT is what makes referees look bad. Imagine yourself going to work every day, where everybody around you is trying to make you screw up. You're not going to get bitten every time, but it is going to happen.


Well, you're right, I am assuming a lot of things. I would be interested to know how he came to the decision to give a card. I'd assume (again) it wasn't the assistant on the far side. If anyone else has seen it they've made a bad decision. Sometimes I think it's fair to blame the officials for getting it wrong. Like earlier in the game with Fabiano's two handballs. You wonder how the ref didn't see either of them. With Kaka, you wonder why, if one of the officials has seen Kaka's elbow come up, they haven't been a little suspicious of Keita going down holding his face, which Kaka's elbow came nowhere near. If the official has somehow managed to see Kaka's elbow go into Keita's face because of the speed and the angle at which they saw it...well, I can't see how, but I suppose that's just unfortunate. And I agree FIFA are ridiculous for letting the referee's decision be final in these situations.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I'm usually lenient on refs but that shot of the smiling official asking Fabiano if he used his hands is damning regardless of whether he seen it or not. It seems to me that the linesmen would have caught at least one of them & should have informed the main official. What makes the Kaka card really bad is the Ivory Coast players were hacking at the Brazilians like they were chopping down a forest for a good few minutes before it & nothing was made of it & then an oblivious Kaka watching where the play was going raises his arm to hold off the on coming Keita & woe, we've got this serious elbow offense to the face which needs no treatment from medical staff. Part of me thinks the ref took action to stop what looked like it could be a full on brawl but I don't know. Anyway Keita & De Rossi have shown the ugly side of football, falling over like fairies


----------



## whiterabbit

Come on, North Korea!


----------



## Scorpius

PGVan said:


> How did Kaka deserve both yellow cards? He did nothing when Keita faked the injury. Keita ran into him. What was he supposed to do?
> 
> And the referee was clearly asking Fabiano if he handled the ball, then Fabiano was obviously saying no. The referee shouldn't have asked, because he will never get a player to admit that, but he was far from joking with him about it. He had a smile on his face, which wasn't the best way to go, but you and I both know that had he seen the handball, he would have called it.
> 
> Some people will rip on the referees just for the sake of having a scapegoat.


Well first yellow was deserved for pushing keita...second time keita ran into him and kaka elbowed him in his chest but keita faked it too much..it was just a smart move from keita to get kaka in trouble..but like i said it was all nonsense drama..Ivory Coast were just playing the drama game that Fabiano started..

And seriosuly 2 handballs and you're still defending the ref...if he's asking Fabiano and smiling that means he saw it so he should have asked the other refs if anything not Fabiano!!..I mean geez of course he's gonna lie about it

I love Brazil but i really don't like that Fabiano dude..he's a disgrace to Brazil..lol


----------



## CeilingStarer

PGVan said:


> Italy. :kma
> 
> A handball on the line is always a red card. I've never seen one not given in that situation. The law might be harsh, but it's still a law, and honestly, had Kewell put his arms behind his back and gotten closer to the post, like most would do there, he wouldn't have had anything to worry about. Why should the referee be thinking to himself "this is Australia's second red card in a week, maybe it's excessive"? That's not his job.


He shouldn't be thinking "this is Australia's second red card, maybe it's excessive", I agree. I'm just saying that it is excessive, due to pretty inconsistent umpiring. If this Ghana guy had received a red card (like Cahill did), we wouldn't have had 1 less man for a whole half (which pretty much destroyed our chances). Following that, very few decisions went our way when they were clearly 50/50 as to who would get the free.

I don't really follow European football outside of World Cup, so I'm not schooled up on the goal/handball rule... what is the exact rule? Plenty of schooled players and personalities seem to have a problem with the referees decision, so why? Is it as clear cut as "any form of handball intentional or not in front of goal = red card?" Do players ALWAYS receive the same as Kewell in other leagues? I would have thought that the red card rule would be up for some disgression, if a guy hasn't blatently tried to block a goal with his hand.


----------



## Micronian

deliberate handballs in the zone are definite red card + penalty kick.

The ones that don't look deliberate are generally ignored by the referee. It would be kind of hypocritical for a referee to call out a handball and yet not give the offender a full punishment.

The third option of course is that he "didn't see it". But that only works when a top team is involved. Australia does not fit in this category...


----------



## CeilingStarer

Micronian said:


> deliberate handballs in the zone are definite red card + penalty kick.
> 
> The ones that don't look deliberate are generally ignored by the referee. It would be kind of hypocritical for a referee to call out a handball and yet not give the offender a full punishment.
> 
> The third option of course is that he "didn't see it". But that only works when a top team is involved. Australia does not fit in this category...


Ah, I thought so. Australia are pretty much thought of as dog**** because we don't have the "heritage" or whatever.


----------



## veron

Canadian Brotha said:


> I'm usually lenient on refs but that shot of the smiling official asking Fabiano if he used his hands is damning regardless of whether he seen it or not. It seems to me that the linesmen would have caught at least one of them & should have informed the main official. What makes the Kaka card really bad is *the Ivory Coast players were hacking at the Brazilians like they were chopping down a forest for a good few minutes before it* & nothing was made of it & then an oblivious Kaka watching where the play was going raises his arm to hold off the on coming Keita & woe, we've got this serious elbow offense to the face which needs no treatment from medical staff. Part of me thinks the ref took action to stop what looked like it could be a full on brawl but I don't know. Anyway Keita & De Rossi have shown the ugly side of football, falling over like fairies


Exactly... the first Brazilian who fell down and got carried away on a stretcher, I thought his leg got broken or something. In the replay, you could see how, as he was about to kick, the Ivory Coast player's toes were turned up - it looked like a very deliberate and malicious kick. Why didn't he get a red card?

This was one intense match...


----------



## Harbinger

I wonder how many North Koreans are gonna defect to South Africa after this match? :lol


----------



## PGVan

Scorpius said:


> Well first yellow was deserved for pushing keita...second time keita ran into him and kaka elbowed him in his chest but keita faked it too much..it was just a smart move from keita to get kaka in trouble..but like i said it was all nonsense drama..Ivory Coast were just playing the drama game that Fabiano started..
> 
> And seriosuly 2 handballs and you're still defending the ref...if he's asking Fabiano and smiling that means he saw it so he should have asked the other refs if anything not Fabiano!!..I mean geez of course he's gonna lie about it
> 
> I love Brazil but i really don't like that Fabiano dude..he's a disgrace to Brazil..lol


1. Kaka did not elbow Keita. He stuck his arm out to block him as he was running into him. It was not smart of Keita, it was disgraceful behaviour that is detrimental to sport.

2. The logical explanation for the referee asking Fabiano if he handled the ball would be that Côte d'Ivoire players complained. If the referee saw it himself, he would have called it. How do you know he didn't ask his assistants or the 4th official? They wear headsets. Nobody knows if they talked about it. I'm not defending the referee here. Asking the player is stupid because you will never get the honest answer. I'm just saying that to say that the referee saw it, refused to call it and was joking about it with Fabiano is just reaching for straws in order to hang the referee out to dry.



CeilingStarer said:


> I don't really follow European football outside of World Cup, so I'm not schooled up on the goal/handball rule... what is the exact rule? Plenty of schooled players and personalities seem to have a problem with the referees decision, so why? Is it as clear cut as "any form of handball intentional or not in front of goal = red card?" Do players ALWAYS receive the same as Kewell in other leagues? I would have thought that the red card rule would be up for some disgression, if a guy hasn't blatently tried to block a goal with his hand.


The law does state that the handball must be intentional for the red card. That also puts the referee in the position where he has to be a mind-reader, and we all know that's impossible. Hockey (which I officiate at an elite level) also has rules that use the term "intentional" or "deliberate". In those situations, it's down to our opinions of the play combined with common sense. With Kewell's handball, had he done like most would do in his position, and get closer to the post with his arms behind his back, he has nothing to worry about. Since his arms were out in the open, and he stopped a sure goal, a red card was always going to be the call.


----------



## SilentWitness

Micronian said:


> deliberate handballs in the zone are definite red card + penalty kick.
> 
> The ones that don't look deliberate are generally ignored by the referee. It would be kind of hypocritical for a referee to call out a handball and yet not give the offender a full punishment.
> 
> The third option of course is that he "didn't see it". But that only works when a top team is involved.* Australia does not fit in this category...*


Aawwwww.


----------



## Micronian

Being Peruvian, I feel Australians (and other small countries') pain.

In the 2nd last game of WC qualifying, Peru was going to eliminate Argentina from this year's world cup, but the referee allowed a clear offside goal in the 93rd minute which gave Argentina the win. The irony was that this referee was standing right next to the offender as it happened! Maybe he blinked 

Of course, having Argentina eliminated right in Buenos Aires would likely have been an even bigger disaster...


----------



## moxosis

Argentina! Argentina! Martin Palermo of all the players 36 year old scored the second goal. Maradona made 7 changes from the last match, but still won 2-0, he's has passion for football.


----------



## Micronian

moxosis said:


> Argentina! Argentina! Martin Palermo of all the players 36 year old scored the second goal. Maradona made 7 changes from the last match, but still won 2-0, he's has passion for football.


Yes, a passion for football/soccer. I seriously doubt he's the greatest coach ever, but he has that "It" factor that so many just don't have. I am sure every player on that squad loves him, believes in him, and will do anything to play for him. The fact that he brought in Martin Palermo (a popular "reject" of the Argentine side) when he was passed over for all of his career speaks volumes of his passion and "It" factor.

It's difficult not to feel honored--especially for Argentinans--to play under a real living legend. It's like a piano player working for Beethoven, or scientist working under Einstein.


----------



## PGVan

Personally, I think the players have tuned Maradona out, with the exception to his cheerleading. Lets not forget that Argentina's (arguably) best play in recent years, Juan Roman Riquelme, refused to play for him. Maradona damn near led Argentina to qualification failure. They got to the World Cup by the skin of their teeth. 

Personally, I think Maradona looking like he's riding a donkey every time Argentina scores is ridiculous. Not that he shouldn't celebrate a big goal, but he celebrates all goals like that. I thought he was trying to make out with everybody on his bench as they hammered Canada 5-0 in a pre-WC friendly. 

.... Not to mention that Maradona is the biggest cheat in sports history.


----------



## Scorpius

Congrats to Argentina..all that talk about Maradona being a bad coach is nonsense..

People like him have real passion in whatever they do and that's why they become great..respect to Maradona the legend.


----------



## PGVan

Legend? I prefer the term "disgrace to all of sports".


----------



## Micronian

PGVan said:


> Personally, I think the players have tuned Maradona out, with the exception to his cheerleading. Lets not forget that Argentina's (arguably) best play in recent years, Juan Roman Riquelme, refused to play for him. Maradona damn near led Argentina to qualification failure. They got to the World Cup by the skin of their teeth.
> 
> Personally, I think Maradona looking like he's riding a donkey every time Argentina scores is ridiculous. Not that he shouldn't celebrate a big goal, but he celebrates all goals like that. I thought he was trying to make out with everybody on his bench as they hammered Canada 5-0 in a pre-WC friendly.
> 
> .... Not to mention that Maradona is the biggest cheat in sports history.


If the players were tuning him out, Argentina would already be out like France. Chemistry is incredibly fragile for some reason, and it already happened to Argentina in 2002 when Bielsa decided to start Gabriel Batistuta instead of Crespo, when Crespo was the guy that brought Argentina to the WC. The players turned on Bielsa and Batigol and ended up playing like crap.

Diego Maradona, like it or not, is a guy that cannot do anything wrong.


----------



## Scorpius

PGVan said:


> Legend? I prefer the term "disgrace to all of sports".


Well what exactly makes him "disgrace to all sports"
His goal in England or his addiction story?
Whatever it is..nobody is perfect..but as a soccer player and icon he IS a legend


----------



## PGVan

Scorpius said:


> Well what exactly makes him "disgrace to all sports"
> His goal in England or his addiction story?
> Whatever it is..nobody is perfect..but as a soccer player and icon he IS a legend


Had he simply admitted the handball and left it at that, I'd be fine with him. But no, he has to praise it as the "hand of god" and be proud of cheating his way to a World Cup title. A man who is proud of being a pure cheat is not a man who can be viewed as a legend.

Nobody is perfect, but to be proud of your blatant cheating and to still act like a complete prick after getting over cocaine and weight issues makes you a disgrace.

I laughed my balls off when he even spoke about Fabiano's goal resulting from handling the ball. The fact that he even has anything to say about that shows what kind of piece of **** he is. Like Kaka said in response... _"It's funny that somebody like Maradona wants to talk about Fabiano's goal," Kaka told Clarin. "He knows a lot about scoring with his hand."_


----------



## Scorpius

PGVan said:


> Had he simply admitted the handball and left it at that, I'd be fine with him. But no, he has to praise it as the "hand of god" and be proud of cheating his way to a World Cup title. A man who is proud of being a pure cheat is not a man who can be viewed as a legend.
> 
> Nobody is perfect, but to be proud of your blatant cheating and to still act like a complete prick after getting over cocaine and weight issues makes you a disgrace.
> 
> I laughed my balls off when he even spoke about Fabiano's goal resulting from handling the ball. The fact that he even has anything to say about that shows what kind of piece of **** he is. Like Kaka said in response... _"It's funny that somebody like Maradona wants to talk about Fabiano's goal," Kaka told Clarin. "He knows a lot about scoring with his hand."_


So much hate for poor Maradona.. :lol


----------



## Manfi

I'm really enjoying this world cup! 
The only two things that I can't forget are the damn horns and the fact that they can't fill the mother ****ing stadium!! I don't think there has ever been a World Cup where stadiums haven't been filled!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Harbinger said:


> I wonder how many North Koreans are gonna defect to South Africa after this match? :lol


LMAO 
This game was the first game being shown live in North Korea since a qualifying match between Iran and North Korea last year!! I really feel bad for the players but not b/c of the commie regime. The North Korean people are the ones that are gonna rip them to pieces!! In 2005 Iran played a qualifying game in North Korea and the match ended 2-0 for Iran. When the game finished the Korean players attacked the referee physically and then the entire stadium stormed the pitch! They started attacking the Iranian players and they literally had to run for their lives! They went into their bus so they could go straight to the airport and leave the country but thousands of people attacked their bus and almost over turned it. There was a video which showed the Iranian players arming themselves with chairs and pieces of wood to hold back the Korean ppl LMAO 

"Riot police finally pushed back the crowd far enough for Iran's squad to depart two hours after the end of the game. "The atmosphere on the pitch and outside the pitch was not a sports atmosphere," said Iran's Croatian coach Branko Ivankovic. "It is very disappointing when you feel your life is not safe. My players tried to get to the bus after the game but it was not possible -- it was a very dangerous situation."


----------



## Manfi

The games tomorrow are very interesting! Slovenia is leading the group after two games!  A country of two million is holding back the United States, England and Algeria!!! 
If Algeria beats the US, and England ties Slovenia then both the US and England will be out!! Who would have thought?

I really want England to be out. I can't stand the English cuz they think they're good enough to compete with the likes of Brazil, Italy and Argentina when they're a second rated team at best. The only reason their league is so good is that their clubs are the richest clubs in the world.


----------



## matty

Manfi said:


> The games tomorrow are very interesting! Slovenia is leading the group after two games!  A country of two million is holding back the United States, England and Algeria!!!
> If Algeria beats the US, and England ties Slovenia then both the US and England will be out!! Who would have thought?
> 
> I really want England to be out. I can't stand the English cuz they think they're good enough to compete with the likes of Brazil, Italy and Argentina when they're a second rated team at best. The only reason their league is so good is that their clubs are the richest clubs in the world.


No, you did not just put italy in the same sentance as Brazil and Argentina. I know they are current cup holders but come on. They are worse then england.


----------



## Manfi

matty said:


> No, you did not just put italy in the same sentance as Brazil and Argentina. I know they are current cup holders but come on. They are worse then england.


Bite your tongue lol 
I love Italy! Yes they are divers, yes they cheat and yes they are not the most attack minded team but they're still one of the best. They have won the WC 4 times and that alone puts them in the same category as Brazil.

Another reason to love Italy is Gattuso! My all time favorite player


----------



## veron

And tonight we have Serbia playing against Australia... let's go Serbia! :boogie


----------



## Manfi

AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA 
look @ this!!! 









When will they learn?:teeth


----------



## CeilingStarer

veron said:


> And tonight we have Serbia playing against Australia... let's go Serbia! :boogie


oh, get ****ed!

This is our last chance, go Aussie!


----------



## Banzai

WOOOO go England   :clap


----------



## renegade disaster

yea! what a result for england,:clap back on form at last. this has certainly helped cheer me up today!


----------



## Manfi

wow the US game was such a thriller!! I feel bad for Algeria.
And unfortunately England survived :mum


----------



## Manfi

In the Ghana-Germany game there are two brothers but they play for diff teams!
Kevin Prince Boateng plays for Ghana but Gerome Boateng plays Germany! How often do you see that? 
Gerome also publicly criticized his brother in the German media after Kevin tackled and injured Michael Ballack and since then they haven't talked together.


----------



## bezoomny

USA! USA! #1! woooo.


----------



## CeilingStarer

Well done Aussies in beating Serbia. Ghana go through though as we don't have enough goals


----------



## Micronian

CeilingStarer said:


> Well done Aussies in beating Serbia. Ghana go through though as we don't have enough goals


That was a surprise. I expected Serbia to win the group.


----------



## shyvr6

What a great finish for the US.


----------



## PGVan

matty said:


> No, you did not just put italy in the same sentance as Brazil and Argentina. I know they are current cup holders but come on. They are worse then england.


I think you're selling England a bit short here. They've had a slow start, but they are better than they've shown.

Italy on the other hand... They are old, slow, and their attacking has been invisible so far at this tournament, nevermind the blatant cheating that saved them from a loss to New Zealand. As an Oranje supporter, I *want* Italy in the Round of 16.

Who cares about the past? Yeah Italy has won 4 World Cups, but only one in any recent memory. What Italy did in 1934, 1938 and 1982 has **** all to do with what their team is now.

As for the United States...

I'm having issues with the reactions from the team, especially Landon Donovan. Obviously his goal was clutch. It got them from elimination to winning the group. Nothing to shake your head at there. Well done to him for scoring that big goal&#8230; but that's what it was. A big goal. It was not this massive history-making goal that everybody is going to remember. It got them out of the group stage&#8230; somewhere they've been before. Their next match is in 3 days for **** sakes.

The crying, the attention-grabbing comments such as, "I've been through so much over the last 4 years", drives me up the wall. So have a lot of other players in this tournament, and for them, getting out of the group stage is the least of their expectations.


----------



## LostProphet




----------



## Micronian

PGVan said:


> I think you're selling England a bit short here. They've had a slow start, but they are better than they've shown.
> 
> Italy on the other hand... They are old, slow, and their attacking has been invisible so far at this tournament, nevermind the blatant cheating that saved them from a loss to New Zealand. As an Oranje supporter, I *want* Italy in the Round of 16.
> 
> Who cares about the past? Yeah Italy has won 4 World Cups, but only one in any recent memory. What Italy did in 1934, 1938 and 1982 has **** all to do with what their team is now.
> 
> As for the United States...
> 
> I'm having issues with the reactions from the team, especially Landon Donovan. Obviously his goal was clutch. It got them from elimination to winning the group. Nothing to shake your head at there. Well done to him for scoring that big goal&#8230; but that's what it was. A big goal. It was not this massive history-making goal that everybody is going to remember. It got them out of the group stage&#8230; somewhere they've been before. Their next match is in 3 days for **** sakes.
> 
> The crying, the attention-grabbing comments such as, "I've been through so much over the last 4 years", drives me up the wall. So have a lot of other players in this tournament, and for them, getting out of the group stage is the least of their expectations.


Well...you gotta sell something to the masses--especially the ones who couldn't care less about soccer. If the story/human drama lands on "Entertainment Tonight" then it's still good exposure for soccer, temporarily.


----------



## redtogo72

PGVan said:


> I'm having issues with the reactions from the team, especially Landon Donovan. Obviously his goal was clutch. It got them from elimination to winning the group. Nothing to shake your head at there. Well done to him for scoring that big goal&#8230; but that's what it was. A big goal. It was not this massive history-making goal that everybody is going to remember. It got them out of the group stage&#8230; somewhere they've been before. Their next match is in 3 days for **** sakes.


Every team has their own view of an achievement. Earlier in the tournament, the New Zealand teammates were happy when they tied a game with Italy. Should we also criticize them? England celebrated when they scored against Slovenia 23min in to the game.

The USA haven't finished first place in their group in 80 years. And they accomplished that, by scoring a goal during the last 2-3 min of the final group game. Why wouldn't they be happy and relieved that they managed to advance to the next round?


----------



## TheVigil1

redtogo72 said:


> Every team has their own view of an achievement. Earlier in the tournament, the New Zealand teammates were happy when they tied a game with Italy. Should we also criticize them? England celebrated when they scored against Slovenia 23min in to the game.
> 
> The USA haven't finished first place in their group in 80 years. And they accomplished that, by scoring a goal during the last 2-3 min of the final group game. Why wouldn't they be happy and relieved that they managed to advance to the next round?


I agree. As an American, I was biting my nails at the end of the US - Algeria game cuz I thought we were done for good after showing more promise than we've had in years. That final goal was certainly HUGE for USA fans.

First time leading our group in 80 years? Hell yes!

Now that we face Ghana next, I'm torn. I was rooting for my country as a joke at first, cuz I thought we'd be out right away. Now that we actually have a chance, I actually want the US to do well, but Ghana is a strong team (that I was rooting for for real the whole tournament). In any case, I look forward to it.

For now, let's go Paraguay! :boogie


----------



## Manfi

Poor Serbia! 
They could have faced their ultimate enemy (USA) if they had moved on  

@PGVan

Italians play for result. You can never count them out. They can play like **** but get a result in the end.


----------



## veron

CeilingStarer said:


> oh, get ****ed!
> 
> This is our last chance, go Aussie!


Woah. I was just rooting for my country, and you say _that_? CeilingStarer, I think you've stared at one too many a ceiling. Chill out.

Soooo Germany and Ghana are advancing to the next round. I'm disappointed to see Serbia out, but even if we had won that match, it's most likely that we would have lost in the next one. Our defense was somewhat ok, but the offense was terrible. There just isn't anyone on the team who can score goals. Our players would get possession of the ball and then not know what to do next. We had some chances, but blew them all.

I remember when we were getting hyped for the Serbia-Germany match. I think my mom's coworker said it best: "Even if the Germans experience a collective brain shutdown and we beat them, we will lose to Australia." And she was right, lol.


----------



## CeilingStarer

veron said:


> Woah. I was just rooting for my country, and you say _that_? CeilingStarer, I think you've stared at one too many a ceiling. Chill out.
> 
> Soooo Germany and Ghana are advancing to the next round. I'm disappointed to see Serbia out, but even if we had won that match, it's most likely that we would have lost in the next one. Our defense was somewhat ok, but the offense was terrible. There just isn't anyone on the team who can score goals. Our players would get possession of the ball and then not know what to do next. We had some chances, but blew them all.
> 
> I remember when we were getting hyped for the Serbia-Germany match. I think my mom's coworker siad it best: "Even if the Germans experience a collective brain shutdown and we beat them, we will lose to Australia." And she was right, lol.


Lol, sorry, I didn't know that you were actually Serbian. I'll give you permission to support your own country just this once. It was 'tongue in cheek' anyway 

Serbia looked dangerous most of the game. I mean your skills were amazing... I was in awe, not watching this sport much. We looked like a bunch of school boys that somehow did it on determination. Having a half decent goal keeper helped too.

I don't think that Ghana are all that terrifying (like someone above feared). We were playing 10 v 11 half of the game, and still managed to keep it a draw.


----------



## Harbinger

Manfi said:


> Poor Serbia!
> They could have faced their ultimate enemy (USA) if they had moved on


Ultimate enemy?? It would have been the first time them ever facing each other in a WC.


----------



## Harbinger

Meanwhile, the defending champs are about to be eliminated by the team that's ranked like 40th by FIFA :lol 

That would be pretty awesome because then I could rub it in the face of an Italian colleague of mine who said that sh*tty teams like USA, S. Korea, and Mexico have no business being in WC let alone making playoffs :lol


----------



## renegade disaster

Harbinger said:


> Meanwhile, the defending champs are about to be eliminated by the team that's ranked like 40th by FIFA :lol


just watched this, wow! what a game , i've only caught the last 20-30 mins but its been a real match to watch. they could have made it through at the end there, very close.


----------



## Cheeky

SLOVAKIA!!

:clap:clap:clap


----------



## PGVan

Oh glorious day! ITALY IS OUT! Play for a result, my ***! They looked terrible up until about the 80th minute and by then it was too late. The 3-2 score was very flattering for the Italians.

Howard Webb also did a magnificent job with the Slovak time wasting attempts near the end, but nobody should be feeling sorry for that karma biting Italy in the ***!



redtogo72 said:


> Every team has their own view of an achievement. Earlier in the tournament, the New Zealand teammates were happy when they tied a game with Italy. Should we also criticize them? England celebrated when they scored against Slovenia 23min in to the game.
> 
> The USA haven't finished first place in their group in 80 years. And they accomplished that, by scoring a goal during the last 2-3 min of the final group game. Why wouldn't they be happy and relieved that they managed to advance to the next round?


You're twisting what I said. I didn't criticize the US for celebrating at the end. I criticized Donovan for celebrating as if they won the World Cup, and the US media reaction, treating the 1-0 win against Algeria as some kind of history-making achievement when they were quarter finalists as recent as 2002. The tears and the comments from Donovan about "going through so much for 4 years" is what you do when you win a championship. Finishing first in the group is not a major accomplishment, it gets you to the Round of 16, where you have to play again in 3-4 days.


----------



## Harbinger

PGVan said:


> Finishing first in the group is not a major accomplishment...


It is for the US team. 8 years ago the media made just as big of a deal about beating Portugal and finishing 2nd in their group.

For a team whose greatest achievement is to make it to the QF any win is sacred


----------



## Manfi

Harbinger said:


> Ultimate enemy?? It would have been the first time them ever facing each other in a WC.


The US bombed Serbia in 1999 and b/c of that all Serbs absolutely hate America.


----------



## Manfi

PGVan said:


> Oh glorious day! ITALY IS OUT! Play for a result, my ***!


What did I say before?
"You can never count them out. They can play like **** but get a result in the end. "
well they played like **** for 80 minutes and very nearly got the result in the end. They could have been through with only 3 points. The last time they got out with 3 points they won the whole damn thing.


----------



## Harbinger

Manfi said:


> The US bombed Serbia in 1999 and b/c of that all Serbs absolutely hate America.


Oh, you meant *that* type of enemy. I guess, but it's not a fact that it would have been an entertaining match. I think that political relations between their countries is the last thing that's on players' minds.


----------



## Harbinger

Samurai are beating my homeland :no

Dutch look like they half asleep, or maybe they're just trying to save energy for 1/8.


----------



## PGVan

The Oranje did what they had to do. A bit disappointed we picked up 3 more yellow cards, but what can you do? We controlled the majority of the match, had an unlucky handball cost us a goal, and Robben is back... and my god, he hasn't missed a step. Really wish the shot would have gone in for him, but Huntelaar played garbageman and bagged the winner. Well done to the Oranje!

3 wins for 9 points. There's nothing negative about that! BRING ON SLOVAKIA!


----------



## Cheeky

Hey what's the difference between tea bags and the Italian team?


Tea bags stay in the cup longer.

:haha:haha


----------



## renegade disaster

Cheeky said:


> Hey what's the difference between tea bags and the Italian team?
> 
> Tea bags stay in the cup longer.
> 
> :haha:haha


----------



## LostProphet

hahahahaha


----------



## matty

PGVan said:


> I think you're selling England a bit short here. They've had a slow start, but they are better than they've shown.
> 
> Italy on the other hand... They are old, slow, and their attacking has been invisible so far at this tournament, nevermind the blatant cheating that saved them from a loss to New Zealand. As an Oranje supporter, I *want* Italy in the Round of 16.
> 
> Who cares about the past? Yeah Italy has won 4 World Cups, but only one in any recent memory. What Italy did in 1934, 1938 and 1982 has **** all to do with what their team is now.
> 
> As for the United States...
> 
> I'm having issues with the reactions from the team, especially Landon Donovan. Obviously his goal was clutch. It got them from elimination to winning the group. Nothing to shake your head at there. Well done to him for scoring that big goal&#8230; but that's what it was. A big goal. It was not this massive history-making goal that everybody is going to remember. It got them out of the group stage&#8230; somewhere they've been before. Their next match is in 3 days for **** sakes.
> 
> The crying, the attention-grabbing comments such as, "I've been through so much over the last 4 years", drives me up the wall. So have a lot of other players in this tournament, and for them, getting out of the group stage is the least of their expectations.


I may be selling england short but at the end of the day. They are and have been the most overrated team for as long as I can remember. They have quality, yet never seem to get anywhere. I doubt england will fire, recent history has shown that.



Manfi said:


> Bite your tongue lol
> I love Italy! Yes they are divers, yes they cheat and yes they are not the most attack minded team but they're still one of the best. They have won the WC 4 times and that alone puts them in the same category as Brazil.
> 
> Another reason to love Italy is Gattuso! My all time favorite player


Great pic. But Italy. Well I dont really need to go on, I think you listed enough negative points. :lol


----------



## matty

PGVan said:


> The Oranje did what they had to do. A bit disappointed we picked up 3 more yellow cards, but what can you do? We controlled the majority of the match, had an unlucky handball cost us a goal, and Robben is back... and my god, he hasn't missed a step. Really wish the shot would have gone in for him, but Huntelaar played garbageman and bagged the winner. Well done to the Oranje!
> 
> 3 wins for 9 points. There's nothing negative about that! BRING ON SLOVAKIA!


I havent seen holland play since the first game and some replays of the second. But Elia was an impressive sub in the first game and Sneijder is one hell of a midfielder. If only Van Prissy could do a bit more. Robben is awesome to watch. May have to watch them next game


----------



## Scorpius

cheeky said:


> hey what's the difference between tea bags and the italian team?
> 
> Tea bags stay in the cup longer.
> 
> :haha:haha


lol


----------



## Micronian

PGVan said:


> Howard Webb also did a magnificent job with the Slovak time wasting attempts near the end, but nobody should be feeling sorry for that karma biting Italy in the ***!


Who is Howard Webb? Is he American? He did an excellent refereeing job...and the lack of hair makes him look like P. Collina!


----------



## Manfi

Micronian said:


> Who is Howard Webb? Is he American? He did an excellent refereeing job...and the lack of hair makes him look like P. Collina!


I think he's Australian, he's a great ref.


----------



## Cyrus

No he's English.


----------



## veron

CeilingStarer said:


> Lol, sorry, I didn't know that you were actually Serbian. I'll give you permission to support your own country just this once. It was 'tongue in cheek' anyway


Heh, alright then.

I watched yesterday's match between Japan and Denmark... and the Japanese are fierce! Those two free kick goals were impressive.


----------



## Harbinger

Domenech refuses to shake hands with Parreira. What a fool!


----------



## renegade disaster

brazil portugal was more dull than englands 0-0 against algeria.


----------



## millenniumman75

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/06/25/octopus-paul-predicts-german-win-world-cup/

Paul the Octopus is predicting a German win through his choice. Interesting little fella.

*Psychic Octopus Predicts German World Cup Win*

BERLIN - A 2-year-old octopus [COLOR=blue! important]oracle[/COLOR] - born in England, but raised in Germany - has predicted a German win over England in Sunday's World Cup game.
The mollusk named Paul chose a mussel out of a water glass marked with the German flag over a mussel in a glass with the English St. George's Cross, said Tanja Munzig, a spokeswoman for the Sea Life Aquarium in the western city of Oberhausen, on Friday.
Paul has proven to be a reliable oracle in the past - he predicted Germany's win over Australia and Ghana and its loss to Serbia. During the 2008 European Championship, he predicted 80 percent of all German games right, Munzig said.
Germany's national team faces England in a much-anticipated round of 16 faceoff in South Africa.
"Paul's prediction was phenomenal," Munzig said. "He swam straight over to the German glass, climbed in and even put a lid on top once he was sitting inside. It was completely crazy."

The organizers of Friday's event were still analyzing why Paul covered the glass with a lid.
"Either he was a bit ashamed that he gave up his English roots

so quickly," Munzig said, "or he was just absolutely convinced about a fast, overwhelming German victory."

Munzig said that even though Paul was born in England, "he now carries a German passport," because he has lived in Oberhausen for most of his life.
Other animal oracles in German zoos cannot claim such a strong track record.
Nineteen-year-old hippo Petty falsely predicted a German win over Serbia last week. She had to choose between two piles of hay with red apples on top at the Chemnitz zoo in eastern Germany and nibbled from the wrong pile.
Tamarin Anton, a [COLOR=blue! important]monkey[/COLOR] at the same zoo, chose the wrong raisin a few days ago, incorrectly claiming that Ghana would beat Germany, kicking it out of the World Cup.


----------



## Harbinger

Now Koreans are definitely gonna be greeted by a firing squad back home.


----------



## renegade disaster

millenniumman75 said:


> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/06/25/octopus-paul-predicts-german-win-world-cup/
> 
> Paul the Octopus is predicting a German win through his choice. Interesting little fella.
> 
> *Psychic Octopus Predicts German World Cup Win*
> 
> BERLIN - A 2-year-old octopus [COLOR=blue! important]oracle[/COLOR] - born in England, but raised in Germany - has predicted a German win over England in Sunday's World Cup game.
> The mollusk named Paul chose a mussel out of a water glass marked with the German flag over a mussel in a glass with the English St. George's Cross, said Tanja Munzig, a spokeswoman for the Sea Life Aquarium in the western city of Oberhausen, on Friday.
> Paul has proven to be a reliable oracle in the past - he predicted Germany's win over Australia and Ghana and its loss to Serbia. During the 2008 European Championship, he predicted 80 percent of all German games right, Munzig said.
> Germany's national team faces England in a much-anticipated round of 16 faceoff in South Africa.
> "Paul's prediction was phenomenal," Munzig said. "He swam straight over to the German glass, climbed in and even put a lid on top once he was sitting inside. It was completely crazy."
> 
> The organizers of Friday's event were still analyzing why Paul covered the glass with a lid.
> "Either he was a bit ashamed that he gave up his English roots
> 
> so quickly," Munzig said, "or he was just absolutely convinced about a fast, overwhelming German victory."
> 
> Munzig said that even though Paul was born in England, "he now carries a German passport," because he has lived in Oberhausen for most of his life.
> Other animal oracles in German zoos cannot claim such a strong track record.
> Nineteen-year-old hippo Petty falsely predicted a German win over Serbia last week. She had to choose between two piles of hay with red apples on top at the Chemnitz zoo in eastern Germany and nibbled from the wrong pile.
> Tamarin Anton, a [COLOR=blue! important]monkey[/COLOR] at the same zoo, chose the wrong raisin a few days ago, incorrectly claiming that Ghana would beat Germany, kicking it out of the World Cup.


if he's right i'll be cooking octopus for dinner sunday night!


----------



## Harbinger

millenniumman75 said:


> *Psychic Octopus Predicts German World Cup Win*


They'll be the first European team to do so. I mean to win WC outside of Europe. Judging by the games European teams produced so far, I doubt any of them is even gonna make it past the quarterfinals. The final showdown is most likely gonna be between Brazil and Argentina.

Also US has been playing better than ever, maybe they'll be lucky to take 3rd place.


----------



## Micronian

Harbinger said:


> Also US has been playing better than ever, maybe they'll be lucky to take 3rd place.


They'll be hard pressed to beat Ghana, which will likely become the new "home team" in South Africa.


----------



## PGVan

Harbinger said:


> They'll be the first European team to do so. I mean to win WC outside of Europe. Judging by the games European teams produced so far, I doubt any of them is even gonna make it past the quarterfinals. The final showdown is most likely gonna be between Brazil and Argentina.
> 
> Also US has been playing better than ever, maybe they'll be lucky to take 3rd place.


Holland is 3-0-0. It's funny because at Euro 2008, we did the same thing, but with much more offensive power. The media basically handed us the trophy and we got taken to the cleaners the next match against Russia in the QF. Holland may have *only* 5 goals in the 3 matches so far, but the attitude is different. Results are now more important than style. Believe me, Holland is more dangerous now than they were in 2008.

There is a potential QF match with Holland and Brazil. That, in my opinion, would be the WC Final.

Speaking of Brazil, I have to laugh at Dunga. I just read an article of him ripping into Portugal for not attacking enough and that their "defending from the midfield back" made it difficult for them to attack very well. So what Dunga? Why should the opposition allow you to do what you want? If anything, he just told the world how to hold the Brazilian attack at bay, and Holland has two midfielders (de Jong and van Bommel) who are ruthless defensively.

But alas, enough looking ahead of Slovakia. We need to take that match seriously. The Slovaks are no slouches and they are on a high after taking out the Italians.


----------



## renegade disaster

first goal of the knockout stage goes to Uruguay.I fancied s.korea to take this one by 2 goals to 1. not so sure now!


----------



## renegade disaster

random, I found this on the web the other night:
http://www.footballspotter.com/complete-panini-mexico-86-album/
I had this sticker book too, first world cup I can remember.wish I still had it!


----------



## Cyrus

A well deserved victory for Ghana I thought, and a good game overall which I enjoyed. I'm glad they got through.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Great match between the USA & Ghana, it's great to see my heritage continue on


----------



## MobiusX

good US lost


----------



## Manfi

Canadian Brotha said:


> Great match between the USA & Ghana, it's great to see my heritage continue on


Are you Ghanaian? 
What language do ppl speak in Ghana? I saw the players talking in English.


----------



## CopadoMexicano

Damn, US loses hopefully Mexico wins against Argentina.


----------



## Scorpius

Glad that Ghana won..that's good enough for US..lol
And i liked Mexico but i think Argentina is gonna take them out..

I'm predicting these 4 teams in the semi-final and 2 of them in the final: Brazil, Argentina, Holland & Spain..but let's see


----------



## SpunUndone

Since I won't be watching much of the WC anymore, I'm buying this cd. I'm addicted now.


----------



## bowlingpins

Scorpius said:


> Glad that Ghana won..that's good enough for US..lol


US Ghana come back strong next world cup. watch out.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Manfi said:


> Are you Ghanaian?
> What language do ppl speak in Ghana? I saw the players talking in English.


I am Ghanaian, my parents are from Ghana but I was born in Canada.

Ghana was a British colony back in the day so the language of business is English over there but there a bunch of local dialects as well, the main one being Twi, which is pronounced sort of like "Chwee". I don't speak it myself though


----------



## PGVan

Scorpius said:


> I'm predicting these 4 teams in the semi-final and 2 of them in the final: Brazil, Argentina, Holland & Spain..but let's see


That can't happen. If Holland and Brazil win their Round of 16 matches, they meet in the QF.


----------



## Micronian

PGVan said:


> There is a potential QF match with Holland and Brazil. That, in my opinion, would be the WC Final.


That game may very well decide one of the finalists for the Cup


----------



## Scorpius

PGVan said:


> That can't happen. If Holland and Brazil win their Round of 16 matches, they meet in the QF.


If they don't run into each other first of course..lol
I'm predicting based on what i think the most capable teams to make it to the semi-final not based on the actual results because I'm not following who's playing who and all that..I'm expecting to see 2 of them in the final


----------



## SilentWitness

Scorpius said:


> Glad that Ghana won..that's good enough for US..lol
> And i liked Mexico but i think *Argentina* is gonna take them out..
> 
> I'm predicting these 4 teams in the semi-final and 2 of them in the final: Brazil,* Argentina, *Holland & Spain..but let's see


YES! I predicted Argentina would make it through (hope I haven't jinxed it now.)They are my favourites, besides Italy of course. LOL



SpunUndone said:


> Since I won't be watching much of the WC anymore, I'm buying this cd. I'm addicted now.


:lol Yes, every home should have one.


----------



## PGVan

Micronian said:


> That game may very well decide one of the finalists for the Cup


I think it's the World Cup Final. I really do.


----------



## Ambivert

Argentina will probably steamroll through everybody.

Italy down for the count already as Slovakia whooped them...bit of a shocker, but go Slovaks!

England will probably lose against the Germans, the English team I think is overrated (no offense)

U.S. lost today...my poor cousin bet in a pool on them winning the cup today and now he looks like a fool I bet lol


----------



## Fitzer

Now that the U.S. is out of the tournament, nobody in america will talk about soccer for another 4 years, lol. Everyone in america only cares about soccer when the U.S. is winning. It iritates me and I'm an american!


----------



## whiterabbit

I'm so looking forward to this game. I haven't been able to escape the hype, which is telling me to expect a great battle followed by penalties. I was going to predict a Germany win, but I can't call it. It depends which England team turns up, but you'd think, having gathered a bit of momentum from the Slovenia game, they'd be up for it. 

I wonder if the streets are really deserted at times like this. I'd go out and see but there's a game on.


----------



## RayOfLight123

Oh god England..Come on guys


----------



## RayOfLight123

Idiot ref!!!!


----------



## whiterabbit

Holy ****. I don't know whether England should feel more relieved that the game isn't already out of sight, or more hard done by for having that goal disallowed. It's one of those ones that everyone, except the people who count, manages to see in normal time. It's not even a great example of why we should have goal-line technology, but on that note, I hope Sepp Blatter is thoroughly ashamed of himself. Except he won't be because he's a massive ****.

Anyway, come on second half. Hurry up.


----------



## whiterabbit

Oh dear. Well, at least it wasn't 5-1, but I don't think England fans will be rubbing that scoreline in the faces of the Germans anymore. A pretty disastrous World Cup campaign for the English. Very poor. 

Oh well, I'm happy for the Germans. I like them a lot and they deserved it. If England could just be half-decent, I would like to see them do well, but I was rooting for Germany. At least that's the end of all the hype and the melodrama and the annoying "patriotic" adverts for another couple of years.


----------



## AlwaysOnTheOutside

Good to see England bounced early. Wonder how much they will cry about the disallowed goal though.


----------



## Manfi

AHAHAHHAHA 
I'm so happy right now! I wish I could meet my previous supervisor and rub it in his face! Why don't you English ever learn? You keep hyping yourself up before every tourney and end up being worse than the last tournament.


----------



## Micronian

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> Good to see England bounced early. Wonder how much they will cry about the disallowed goal though.


I hope they prefer to talk about their horrible/slow defense, and yet another goose egg by their "golden boy" wayne rooney. Anyone who argues this loss strictly on the disallowed goal is not taking a look at the full 90 minutes.

Germany was just better on every line. Momentum kept England close, but once germany got their back on their feet, it was game over.


----------



## Manfi

guys read this thread! Hilarious stuff.
"*Deutschland will destroy the English, AGAIN"*

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1470553


----------



## AlwaysOnTheOutside

Manfi said:


> guys read this thread! Hilarious stuff.
> "*Deutschland will destroy the English, AGAIN"*
> 
> http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1470553


I love the historical analogies. I liked when the US played England and people were saying, "The Red Coats are coming! The Red Coats are coming!"


----------



## Manfi

AlwaysOnTheOutside said:


> I love the historical analogies. I liked when the US played England and people were saying, "The Red Coats are coming! The Red Coats are coming!"


lol

In other news, Hitler is rolling in his grave! 
11 out of 23 Germans were eligible to play for another country lol

Kadira-German/Tunisian
Ozul-German/Turkish
Boatang-Ghana
etc...


----------



## Manfi

I never saw the video of this song, pretty nice.


----------



## whiterabbit

Manfi said:


> AHAHAHHAHA
> I'm so happy right now! I wish I could meet my previous supervisor and rub it in his face! Why don't you English ever learn? You keep hyping yourself up before every tourney and end up being worse than the last tournament.


I think the hype always goes over the top, but you can see why people expect England to do well. The current team is made up of players who perform well week in week out in the Premier League. They just haven't managed to gel as a team, but going into the tournament they apparently looked good (I don't know, I didn't watch the games).

I'd be the last person to use the disallowed goal as an excuse for anything but it is another example of why the technology should be used. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of this game, but every goal scored should count. It makes a mockery of the sport.


----------



## whiterabbit

Before I sound like I'm contradicting myself for saying the disallowed goal both is and isn't an example of why goal line technology should be used, I'd just like to clarify that it shouldn't have been needed in this situation because it was so clearly a goal, but because both the ref and linesman somehow managed to not see it, it was needed.

Anyway, can't wait for Mexico v Argentina now.


----------



## coldsorehighlighter

I hope nobody in England dies or kills themselves. I'm not even kidding.


----------



## Manfi

whiterabbit said:


> I think the hype always goes over the top, but you can see why people expect England will do well. The current team is made up of players who perform well week in week out in the Premier League. They just haven't managed to gel as a team, but going into the tournament they apparently looked good (I don't know, I didn't watch the games).
> 
> I'd be the last person to use the disallowed goal as an excuse for anything but it is another example of why the technology should be used. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of this game, but every goal scored should count. It makes a mockery of the sport.


The Premier League is the Premier League b/c of $$$$$$$!
English teams buy the best from all over the planet and it's those players that make English players look good in my opinion.
The English game is outdated and the players lack skill. The days of long balls are over! 
To me England plays like East Europeans. No flare, no skill, just pure determination and energy. South American teams and Western European teams all have at least a touch of Joga Bonito in their game but the English play their own game and it has proven to be unsuccessful.

btw, goal line tech or video tech etc... will be nothing but disaster and it is simply not doable in football. More then 200 countries and thousands of leagues have to suddenly change how they do things. Then there is incompatibility with the game. Unlike American sports soccer doesn't stop every 5 minutes and the players like to contest everything w/ the referee in soccer. Imagine what would happen if there was video tech. Every two mins one team would request a video review!!!! 
FIFA has decided to put two refs behind the goal lines and I think that's a MUCH BETTER sltn.

EDIT: I forgot what goal line tech was and I just looked it up and I think you're right, that would be a sltn as well but video technology is an absolute no no in my opinion.


----------



## Cheeky

I was hoping England would win....but let's be honest, I didn't actually expect them to. 
I did, however, expect them to lose better than 4-1. Disgraceful. 

I hope Ghana wins the whole thing now. They're playing so well.


----------



## Canadian Brotha

What was interesting is a at halftime here they showed an old England/Germany game where the ball didn't cross the line but it was given as a goal for England


----------



## bowlingpins

Argentina is the stronger team here but I am rooting for the underdogs Mexico. Things don't look too good for them now :-(


----------



## Ambivert

Manfi said:


> lol
> 
> In other news, Hitler is rolling in his grave!
> 11 out of 23 Germans were eligible to play for another country lol
> 
> Kadira-German/Tunisian
> Ozul-German/Turkish
> Boatang-Ghana
> etc...


lol who are those players you totally skip out on Germany's top players being East European


----------



## Ambivert

I hope mexico gets it sissy drug cartel *** kicked by argentina

then I hope argentina gets its arrogant *** kicked by Brazil...lol


----------



## LostProphet

Micronian said:


> Anyone who argues this loss strictly on the disallowed goal is not taking a look at the full 90 minutes.


I do agree that England was outclassed the whole game. I'm not trying to make an excuse for them however had the goal been rightfully called it could have changed the whole dynamic of the 2nd half. Momentum can change so quickly with a goal.

I'm not gonna argue for or against goal line technology, but they need to ensure that such hugely significant calls are not made so horribly. England was robbed of a goal today and that was simply unjust.

But holy crap did Germany play a good game. Forget WWII, today they were the definition of blitzkrieg!


----------



## veron

Holy schnitzel, this is like the World Cup of Incompetent Refs. First England loses a goal, and now Argentina scores one from offside. I think this last match could have had a different outcome had that goal not been allowed. The Mexicans were clearly upset and seemed to have lost their concentration after that.

I think some sort of video review system would benefit the sport. It could work like it does in tennis - each team would get, let's say 2 challenges per each half. This wouldn't take up too much time and it could prevent disasters like we've seen today.


----------



## PGVan

counterfeit self said:


> Argentina will probably steamroll through everybody.


Argentina has yet to be tested defensively. Mexico pressed a bit today and got some opportunities, but the goal came far too late. Although it goes against everything I believe in, I have to say that ze germans have a good chance to beat Argentina.

As for ENG-DEU...

Obviously Germany completely outclassed England in the second half. However, I can't help but feel that if the halftime score was 2-2, as it should have been, the second half would have been much different. Would England have won? I don't know. I do know that England wouldn't have left their back line so exposed pressing for an equalizer they should have already had. People can't see the final scoreline of 4-1 and just assume that taking away that goal had no effect on the game. It clearly did.

I can't blame the referee. He was in no position to see it. I'm a bit less sympathetic to the linesman, even as far off the line as he was, I don't think it should have been that hard to see, but I am not experienced in that position, so I'll take most of the analysts' words I've heard that it's not really his fault either. Either way, goal line technology or video review of goals is NEEDED.

FIFA is run by a bunch of old assclowns who need to be replaced. It is senseless arguing again for technology, or having the 4th official review goals on a monitor and take 5 seconds to radio the referee to tell him whether it's good or not. They don't want technology and they never will. Blatter and his cronies need to go. Not until we get younger leadership in FIFA will we see anything that makes sense.

Mexico even had some early momentum taken away by Tevez's offside goal to put Argentina up 1-0. Until that point, the worry in Maradona's face was obvious. As the matches get tougher, we will all see how Maradona is not a coach, but a cheerleader. I don't think he is smart enough to make tactical changes as needed during a match that isn't going his way. Blown offside calls won't bail him out every time.

My solution to FIFA's problems... For qualifying matches and major tournaments (friendlies do not need this)...The 4th official will have a monitor and he will watch every single goal. The only two things he will look for, is to verify that the ball was in the net and whether or not the play was offside. With TV technology today, we get replays within seconds, and with the officials already wearing radios, it would not take more than 15-30 seconds to review a questionable goal to get it right. There would be no flow taken from the game and FIFA's Fair Play agenda would finally be legitimate.

With Lampard's goal today, all that needed to happen, was the 4th official seeing it for what it was, telling the referee via radio that it was a goal, the referee stops play, points to the centre spot and adds 15-30 seconds to the end of the half. It really could have been that ****ing easy!


----------



## whiterabbit

I don't know. It's true that goals change games, but if England hadn't been so atrocious defensively in letting the first 2 goals in, and being lucky not to let even more in, then I may have had more faith in them being able to keep the score level, or even go on and get a winner, in the second half. They haven't looked solid defensively all the way throughout the tournament. I think Germany are a decent enough side that they would have gone on to win the game anyway. Of course it's not certain, and if FIFA weren't such twats we'd know for sure, but it seems more likely the result would have gone Germany's way than England's.

As for Argentina v Mexico...what more can you say about the wrong decisions. I felt bad for Mexico. I find it amazing that they showed the replay of Tevez being offside on the big screen in the stadium. Who thought that would be a great idea? 

Well, an Argentina v Germany quarter final sounds good to me. And I'm looking forward to seeing Javier Hernandez at Old Trafford next season. Nice goal from him.


----------



## PGVan

moxosis said:


> Maradona is not a cheerleader, he would not have come this far, many changes in last match against Greek team and they won, I think you are just hating on Maradona and you think you know it all, and hating on anything that does not go with your views, and whats with all the swearing do you really think that is so cool, or are you trying to be tougher than you really are?
> 
> And I am putting you on my ignore list.


I fully believe Argentina's success so far is completely as a result of their players and not Maradona. In case you missed it, Argentina qualified by the skin of their teeth with public player criticisms of Maradona. Riquelme still refuses to play for him, and aside from Messi, he would be the best player for Argentina. Not all former great players are great coaches. Look at what Marco van Basten did for the Oranje. He led them nowhere and he had very little respect from players despite limited success.

Are you too good to swear when you're upset? What are you talking about "all the swearing"? I swore once in my last post, and I do miss the days when swearing was not edited on this site.

Ignore away. You won't hurt my feelings.


----------



## Micronian

PGVan said:


> I fully believe Argentina's success so far is completely as a result of their players and not Maradona.


This is generally the case for all senior national teams. Players are hardly together that long--especially when you have many to choose from. That's certainly not only exclusive to Maradona. He's already outlasted Parreira, S.G. Erikson, Capello, Domenech, Lippi, Ottmar Hitzfeld. If it were all about the coach, Argentina should already have been out of this tournament.

You're just hating on Maradona for no good reason. You were too young in '86. He was the talk of the entire world. He was the undisputed #1 superstar player coming to italia '90. You can't understand how his superstar status still completely overshadows all the antics and dangers that he's put himself through, simply because you weren't really there when the legend happened.


----------



## Manfi

wow! I can't believe you guys are having this discussion cuz me and my dad were talking about the exact same thing the entire game today! My dad thinks that he's bad coach but IMO with a team like Argentina you need somebody that is charismatic and not necessary a good tactician! Argentina has MESSI for fvcks sake! Messi alone can change the game in a blink of an eye! You need a charismatic figure that can motivate the players and there is nobody better than Maradona himself.


----------



## PGVan

Micronian said:


> This is generally the case for all senior national teams. Players are hardly together that long--especially when you have many to choose from. That's certainly not only exclusive to Maradona. He's already outlasted Parreira, S.G. Erikson, Capello, Domenech, Lippi, Ottmar Hitzfeld. If it were all about the coach, Argentina should already have been out of this tournament.
> 
> You're just hating on Maradona for no good reason. You were too young in '86. He was the talk of the entire world. He was the undisputed #1 superstar player coming to italia '90. You can't understand how his superstar status still completely overshadows all the antics and dangers that he's put himself through, simply because you weren't really there when the legend happened.


I never said it was all about the coach. Sometimes it is (Otto Rehhagel in 2004) and sometimes it isn't. That said, you still need guidance from somebody who knows coaching. Like it or not, Maradona looked damn worried until the stupid linesman missed the clear offside on Tevez's first goal. That killed Mexico.

(Why are you listing Raymond Domenech on a list with good and accomplished coaches? The only reason he was in the 2006 World Cup Final is because the French players were playing for their captain, Zinedine Zidane. Domenech is the reason the French imploded in embarrassing fashion this year.)

So just because I was 2 years old in 1986 means I can't have gone back in the archives and read up on history, watched DVDs and read books about the sport's history and formed opinions about anything? Rubbish! I am well aware of how popular he was. Doesn't mean I have to like or respect him.

Maradona is a cheat. He is proud of his handball goal against England, and I cannot have any respect for anybody who is openly proud of such blatant cheating, especially on the World Cup stage. I think the AFA showed themselves a total lack of respect by hiring him in the first place, given how he embarrassed them in 1994. I don't care how good of a player he was, he is a cheat...not only in football, but in life too. Last time he visited Italy, he had a pair of diamond earrings seized as part of 37M Euros in taxes/interest he still owes the Italian Government. Nice person, eh. Why Italy let him go instead of locking him in jail is beyond me.


----------



## PGVan

Another new-look Oranje winning another match. 2-1 was a generous scoreline for the Slovaks. Their goal was basically consolation as the last kick of the match from the spot and the Dutch really should have scored 2-3 more goals. Bottom line, we're in the QF!


----------



## bowlingpins

Ridiculous how in the Ghana vs US match, one of the Ghana players faked an injury, then wouldn't get up even after the referee insisted. So they called for a stretcher and carried the "injured" player to the sideline where he promptly got up on his feet. 

Fines need to be imposed on anyone who pulls stunts such as these.


----------



## PGVan

bowlingpins said:


> Ridiculous how in the Ghana vs US match, one of the Ghana players faked an injury, then wouldn't get up even after the referee insisted. So they called for a stretcher and carried the "injured" player to the sideline where he promptly got up on his feet.
> 
> Fines need to be imposed on anyone who pulls stunts such as these.


Fundamentally, I agree with you. That said, late in a soccer match, especially one that goes into extra time for half an hour, cramps do happen. Once the muscle gets stretched back out, the players can make a quick recovery.


----------



## bowlingpins

^ True, that is a possibility. Though I think that since these are well trained athletes, they shouldn't be spontaneously falling to the ground left and right. Some cases may be due to genuine problems like cramps but I bet a good majority are not.


----------



## PGVan

When a player goes to ground spontaneously late during a match, it usually is cramps. It doesn't matter how good of shape you're in when you've gone 90+ minutes straight. Muscles will cramp up on the most fit people in the world.

Injury faking and time wasting is usually when players are fouled not so harshly and stay down.


----------



## Micronian

I remember back in the day, the players with cramps near the end of the game were just left on the field to recoup. As I'm sure people know how a cramp feels, you know it creeps up on you slowly enough to walk away from the field.

One time, I couldn't find my soccer shoes, so I played with my brother's--who is a size smaller. After a few minutes, my toes completely cramped up and I hopped on one foot until I reached the side and took my shoe off. There is enough energy to hobble to the sides and get treatment in a soccer game. Anyone that just falls over a cramp, near the end of a game, is blatantly wasting time.


----------



## Wehttam

I thoroughly enjoy watching the slow-motion replays of the players falling down with faces filled in agony...

It's like watching me in a conversation


----------



## bezoomny

My predictions (supporting Germany): the top two will be Germany and Brazil. Germany will win it.


----------



## PGVan

I think Germany's inexperience will finally show against Argentina. 

Brazil v Holland will be the match of the tournament. They play the same style and are a lot more closely-matched than a lot of the media are giving credit for. This could be a 6-7 goal scoring festival or it could be a 0-0 draw for 120 minutes. It all depends on how the teams approach the game. Personally, I think they will come out defensively and play some chess. Whoever is best at capitalizing on opportunities will win.

Uruguay should handle Ghana, but it's no guarantee. They might play not to win though, considering it's either Holland or Brazil next.

Spain looks to have hit their stride against Portugal. Unless goalkeeping can save Paraguay, I don't see anything but a Spanish win here.


----------



## PGVan

July 7, 1998. World Cup Semi Finals. Netherlands - Brazil. My grandfather was in the final stage of life. After the first 90 minutes, my dad called me and said we needed to go to the hospital. I don't know for sure, but the timing of it all makes it very possible that he passed on during the penalty shootout that Brazil knocked us out with. 

12 years, minus 5 days later, July 2, 2010, I have very few words. This is an amazing day that I will never, EVER forget! clap:cry


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I didn't think it would happen but it has, The Dutch tackle the Brazilians, I think they are a pretty good bet now for an appearance in the final. Now hopefully Ghana makes it & my 2 teams of this tournament stand tall in the semi-finals


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I'm depressed, Ghana deserved to make African history


----------



## Manfi

Canadian Brotha said:


> I'm depressed, Ghana deserved to make African history


dude I ****ing feel horrible for Asemoah Gyan!
The guy is gonna need some major therapy after that miss. :|
People in Ghana must feel devastated right now. I know that feeling and it's not pretty.
Hopefully this isn't the end of the Black Stars.


----------



## Scorpius

Canadian Brotha said:


> I'm depressed, Ghana deserved to make African history


Yea, that was sad..Ghana deserved to win..just really bad luck
Great game though..


----------



## Canadian Brotha

Manfi said:


> dude I ****ing feel horrible for Asemoah Gyan!
> The guy is gonna need some major therapy after that miss. :|
> People in Ghana must feel devastated right now. I know that feeling and it's not pretty.
> Hopefully this isn't the end of the Black Stars.





Scorpius said:


> Yea, that was sad..Ghana deserved to win..just really bad luck
> Great game though..


The good news is that they made it one step farther than 2006 without Micheal Essien & with extremely young players for the most part, 4 years from now in Brazil they should be looking good again with more experience. That end though, it was a hard pill to swallow, I mean 2-1 would be easier to digest than what we all witnessed


----------



## PGVan

In a way I feel bad for Ghana going out like that, but then again I don't. All Ghana needed was for Gyan to bury that penalty. 

Looking forward to playing Uruguay. I think the Oranje missing van der Wiel and de Jong won't hurt them as much as missing Suarez, Fucile and possibly Lugano will hurt Uruguay. If Uruguay can't pass the ball better than they did today, they might not get 40% of possession against the Dutch.


----------



## MindOverMood




----------



## shynesshellasucks

Brazil choked, but I feel good for Uruguay. Hopefully Argentina takes care of business against the Germans, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Argentina also chokes. Paraguay also needs to make sure Spain keeps the Spaniard tradition of choking.


----------



## bowlingpins

hooray Germany!!!!!  What a team! They have such great, selfless teamwork. I hope they win this world cup. The semifinals could be hard w/o Muller though.


----------



## whiterabbit

Yes! Haha. Oh, I love Germany. I called a Netherlands v Germany final earlier in the week to someone at work. It remains to be seen, but at the moment I totally look like I know what I'm talking about!

These three quarters have been great. Hopefully the fourth will be just as good. I predictably predict a Spain win.


----------



## Scorpius

Soccer is too depressing.. :cry

I wanted Ghana to win but they lost...I wanted Argentina to win but they lost too and 4-0..wth..:fall
Oh well, Spain is the only team left that i would really like to see winning this cup..or maybe Holland

Germany play good but for some reason I never liked Germany because they were annoying in that SNES soccer game that i used to play.. :lol


----------



## veron

bowlingpins said:


> hooray Germany!!!!!  What a team! They have such great, selfless teamwork. I hope they win this world cup. The semifinals could be hard w/o Muller though.


Woah, 4-0. Good for them. I don't understand why Muller got the credit for their first goal - he didn't seem to change the direction of the ball... but whatever.


----------



## PGVan

Müller did change the direction of the ball. Quite significantly if you look closely.



shynesshellasucks said:


> Brazil choked


Or they got beat by a better team.

As for DEU-ARG, the 4-0 scoreline is a bit misleading. Yes, Germany was the better team, but Argentina packed it in at 2-0. The last two goals were gimmies. They will need to work even harder to have a chance against Spain.


----------



## Scorpius

I really think Argentina could have won if it wasn't for that first silly goal in the first 5 minutes...they were close in the first half but in the second half Argentina started to lose focus trying to get even then Germany scored another goal and that was it..
Germany played good but not much better..they just got lucky and then capitalized on Argentina's mistakes for the rest of the game

kinda like turtling or camping in video games.. lol


----------



## SilentWitness

D11 said:


> My favourites are Argentina and Italy, but something tells me it might be Germany this year (they've been so close in the past).
> Anyway, it's going to be exciting. :boogie May the best team win!


This is what I wrote on 27 May, 10. Oh boy, could this be it, Germany. We'll see.


----------



## PGVan

Germany is in for a rough ride once they play a team who are organized defensively. 12 of their 13 goals have come from 3 matches. Australia, England and Argentina all played atrocious defensively. Ghana and Serbia handled Germany a lot better because they were better organized at the back. 

Spain has solid defensive organization. It will be interesting to see how Germany does against Spain.


----------



## shynesshellasucks

I will be rooting for Uruguay then Germany. I don't want there to be any first time champs.


----------



## renegade disaster

I'm rooting for holland or spain to win this cup. I have a feeling germany will probably win it though.
I would have liked to have seen ghana in the semis.


----------



## PGVan

I don't understand why so many people are looking at Germany to win. I'm not saying they've played bad at all, but I think a lot of people are being mislead by the scoreline they've put up against England and Argentina. Those who watched those matches should see how terrible they were defensively and in both matches, the last 2 goals Germany got were freebies. How many goals did they score against defensively organized teams like Serbia and Ghana?

I see in Germany where Holland was in 2008. Holland destroyed Italy and France, so everybody was handing them the trophy. I would have thought that a comeback win against Brazil would have opened some eyes as to just how good Holland is, but I'll take the "nobody thinks we can win" spot right now. I am more than comfortable being the team who has only allowed one goal through open play so far.


----------



## LostProphet

Yes, they posted big goal numbers vs England and Argentina, but that isn't the only reason why people (or me at least) are saying they are favorites to win the cup. If you watched them play those last 2 matches you would know that they are in scary form right now. Out of the round of 8, they showed the highest class of football out of all of the teams imo. They are explosive on the counter attack and almost surgical.


----------



## PGVan

Germany had a huge help from the referee against England. They gave up an early 2-goal lead within a span of a few minutes late in the first half. Had England gotten credit for the second goal, nobody knows what the second half would have been like. England simply quit playing after the first half. The 3rd and 4th goals were counter-attacks that most teams at the World Cup would have buried as well. The Germans did well to go up 2-0, and then Argentina quit. The last two goals were handed to them. Germany has yet to play a "big team" who is also defensively organized. They are going to play such a team Wednesday, and they don't have Müller. They will have to work a lot harder to score against Spain than they did against England and Argentina. 

I know this has a stench of bias, but I don't see how Holland is being so overlooked. In my opinion, they are in the best form. Flair and a sexy style doesn't always equate to the best performances. That is something Holland has learned from years past. Through 5 matches, there was a period of 20-25 minutes against Brazil and 5-10 minutes against Slovakia, where Holland was not in complete control. Brazil is the only team to score against Holland from open play. I would have thought that doing the impossible (coming from behind to beat Brazil) would have more people seeing just how good the Oranje really are. Instead, it's all about Brazil collapsing. :blank

But as I said earlier, I'm more than comfortable with the majority of the world picking Germany or Spain to win the Final.


----------



## defoe

Did you know, that if either germany or spain win the wc, new zealand will be the only unbeaten team


----------



## PGVan

What? The first semi-final has been over for almost 3 hours, and NOBODY has anything to say? Of course not, the Dutch won and shut the world up AGAIN! :clap:boogie:clap


----------



## silentcliche

I'm totally rooting for the Dutch in the finals. That goal by Van Bronckhorst was a thing of beauty.


----------



## Manfi

PGVan said:


> What? The first semi-final has been over for almost 3 hours, and NOBODY has anything to say? Of course not, the Dutch won and shut the world up AGAIN! :clap:boogie:clap


I know my dad is happy. He's the biggest non Dutch, Holland fan ever. Every time we watch a football game together he finds a way to talk about the Holland team from the 70's!!!


----------



## whiterabbit

I wonder what the best final would be. A Netherlands v Spain final sounds great. I don't know what the old Dutch-German rivalry is like these days, but that could be an interesting game as well. At this point I'm not really bothered who wins. I'm not too fond of a few individual players, but I like all the teams involved. I like Germany but I guess it would be great for Spain or the Netherlands to win it for the first time. The semi-final tonight should be interesting.


----------



## millenniumman75

So what is the latest? The timing is weird here in the States. It is during business hours and I am sure it would bog down networks. :lol


----------



## Ambivert

Holy crap, Dutchies are rocking yeehawww

All European final, interesting! I'm cheering for the dutch underdogs, Spain and Germany are too good and over established in soccer! (Even though I love Germany)


----------



## Scorpius

I want to see Spain vs Holland in the final...I think Spain deserves to win but if Holland wins that's cool too...Germany needs to stay out of this though..lol


----------



## Canadian Brotha

I'm for the Dutch first, the Germans second, & the Spanish third to take this title


----------



## renegade disaster

Manfi said:


> I know my dad is happy. He's the biggest non Dutch, Holland fan ever. Every time we watch a football game together he finds a way to talk about the Holland team from the 70's!!!



my dad often talked before about the skills of cruyff back in the 70's.I think he would want them to win.


----------



## whiterabbit

Actually...I'd like Germany to win. I just can't help it. In the event that they don't make it to the final, _then_ I don't care who wins.


----------



## WakaxWaka

0-1 Spain


----------



## bezoomny

Jesus Christ, Germany looked glad just to have the honor of sharing the field with Spain. WTF?


----------



## Canadian Brotha

It's like the heart of the German passion on field left with Thomas Mueller's exclusion. It's too bad, I didn't really want to see the Spanish win. I'm glad Puyol scored for them however, he's a good trooper for Spain & Barca


----------



## defoe

spain have made it !!
should be a great final spain - holland


----------



## UndercoverAlien

i hope the dutch can pull it off but i think they'll have a hard time scoring.


----------



## PGVan

UndercoverAlien said:


> i hope the dutch can pull it off but i think they'll have a hard time scoring.


As will Spain scoring on Holland. It should be a close final. Both teams are organized defensively and are great teams. Up front, David Villa is as good as they come, but he's also the only Spanish forward who has had more than a satisfactory tournament. Holland has just as much talent up front and their defensive midfield is very tough to penetrate.


----------



## CopadoMexicano

Go Espana. :banana


----------



## AussiePea

Bah didn't want spain in, they are a bunch of premadonas, worse than the italians! Well hopefully it will be a great final anyway.


----------



## Manfi

I like the Spaniards more but at the same time I don't want to see the Dutch loose a third world cup final.


----------



## whiterabbit

Oh well, at least England has a referee in the final.


----------



## Ambivert

Anyone else find it ironic if the Dutch would win the World Cup in South Africa? They are the ancestors of the Afrikaners in SA (the ones who initiated Apartheid)


----------



## Frequency

The Bronzefinal has been fun so far.

Too bad the WC is almost over. It's such a socially acceptable excuse for staying in on evenings and weekends. :clap


----------



## Frequency

OK, Germany won and thus finished third. Well deserved after filling the World Cup with some of the most blistering counterattacks I have seen in a long while.


----------



## bezoomny

Muller and Ozil will be devastating in the next World Cup. Actually, I guess most of the German team will be back.

Really entertaining game. Uruguay seems to always play with more passion/desperation than talent, but they gave Germany a great game.


----------



## Scorpius

Well, it's almost all over...now we gotta wait another 4 years..that sucks..lol


----------



## PGVan

Well, I am absolutely gutted. A lot of fellow Oranje supporters will say it was a good run and we should be proud. Not me. All I can be entertained by is winning. While it was awesome at the time to beat Brazil in the QF and I could watch Gio's goal against Uruguay a million times over, it was all for nothing in the end. If there is just one positive for Holland this year, it is that Bert van Marwijk held his team together and gave Oranje a winning attitude that I hope never goes away. We can build on this, but right here, today, we accomplished nothing.

I thought both teams today played on the dirty side, and it was more even than the yellow card count suggests. I thought Heitinga's first yellow was garbage and Iniesta dove to get him sent off. I'll give credit to Casillas for the amazing save on Robben's first chance, and I will express my rage at how Robben playing honest on his second break meant that Puyol didn't get a second yellow card for doing basically what Heitinga did to get his later on. Had Robben dove, Puyol would have been off. 

The circumstances that led to Iniesta's World Cup Winning goal is nothing but a gross injustice. Say what you want about how the first 115 minutes played out, Sneijder's free kick going off Spain's wall and out for a corner... only to be given as a goal kick to Spain, when there was not an Oranje player anywhere close to the deflection led directly to the winning goal. FIFA should apologize to the KNVB for such incompetence in a World Cup Final, but I don't expect it.

I'm not sitting here saying that Oranje would have necessarily won without that complete officiating disaster on the goal kick. I'm just saying that penalties would have produced a fair result (and honestly, Spain would have had a clear advantage with Casillas as their keeper). Spain is a world class team worthy of a World Cup, and I'm not blaming them for taking the goal. Any team would, but how that goal took place at the end was just not fair.


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## millenniumman75

The officiating has been complained about like the moderation staff here at SAS!
Yellow card, yellow card, yellow card......14 total, with one becoming red. Even here, you get three red cards within 30 days for a timeout :lol.

In all my years of playing and watching soccer (30 years). I thought 5 yellow cards in one game was bad, but 14? The referees have to take down information for each one - I remember seeing them write down stuff. 

Anyway, I listened to it on the radio - but I recognized Fabregas and Casillas and Heitinga. It was noted that it turned out that the big names really didn't produce as much as their name should have and it was the lesser knowns who did better. That was kind of cool. I get kind of sick of hearing about Cristiano Ronaldo - the young man had to have his teeth fixed to look the way he does.


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## Crystalline

PGVan said:


> I thought both teams today played on the dirty side, and it was more even than the yellow card count suggests. I thought Heitinga's first yellow was garbage and Iniesta dove to get him sent off. I'll give credit to Casillas for the amazing save on Robben's first chance, and I will express my rage at how Robben playing honest on his second break meant that Puyol didn't get a second yellow card for doing basically what Heitinga did to get his later on. Had Robben dove, Puyol would have been off.
> 
> The circumstances that led to Iniesta's World Cup Winning goal is nothing but a gross injustice. Say what you want about how the first 115 minutes played out, Sneijder's free kick going off Spain's wall and out for a corner... only to be given as a goal kick to Spain, when there was not an Oranje player anywhere close to the deflection led directly to the winning goal. FIFA should apologize to the KNVB for such incompetence in a World Cup Final, but I don't expect it.
> 
> I'm not sitting here saying that Oranje would have necessarily won without that complete officiating disaster on the goal kick. I'm just saying that penalties would have produced a fair result (and honestly, Spain would have had a clear advantage with Casillas as their keeper). Spain is a world class team worthy of a World Cup, and I'm not blaming them for taking the goal. Any team would, but how that goal took place at the end was just not fair.


Agreed. This was possibly the worst final (in terms of how I felt about the refereeing calls and general play) that I watched. Left a pretty bad taste in my mouth, and I'd been enjoying the tournament so far. Until now.


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## Classified

de Jong's kick to the chest should have been a red card, but I thought there were a lot of yellow cards that were deserved. I didn't think that the red card (2 yellows) should have been given to Heitinga. The second yellow was a bad call. There were a few other dives as well.

Both teams had chances to score, but Spain just happened to get one past the keeper.

And Paul the Octopus is great. I need to bring him to Vegas with me.


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## PGVan

I can't argue with de Jong's foul. Red card for sure. However, there were many instances where Howard Webb just blew it...

- Iniesta went after Mark van Bommel away from the ball. Just like de Jong's foul is a red in any other match, so is this, but Iniesta didn't even get a yellow card.

- Both of Heitinga's yellow cards were garbage. One of the rare players who didn't deserve a booking at all and he's the only one who gets two and sent off. 

- Carlos Puyol's groping of Arjen Robben should have been his second yellow card, thus a red. Instead, Robben gets a yellow for *****ing at Webb.

- Gregory van der Wiel's yellow card was a direct result of Iniesta diving when he was not touched. Iniesta should have gotten a yellow card, not van der Wiel.

- I don't even remember what Giovanni van Bronckhorst did to get his yellow card. That tells me it couldn't have been that bad. 

But the above is all subjective. It's all based on Webb's judgment, and although I didn't agree with a lot of it, I can live with it (eventually). The one mistake that I might never let go, is the one that involved ZERO JUDGMENT. Decisions like these should never be wrong at the U16 level, nevermind the World Cup Final. The decision to award Spain a goal kick when Sneijder's free kick not only hit Spain's wall (quite a significant deflection as well), but Casillas got a touch to it as well, was a travesty. That goal kick led to Spain's World Cup winning goal. I'm not saying Oranje would have scored on the corner or necessarily won the match on penalties, but the goal was not fair. Being in the 116th minute, it had a deciding effect on the World Cup.

All in all, both teams were dirty, the yellow card count should have been more even than it was, and the winning goal was a crime. 

Please don't take this as saying that Spain are not worthy champions. They are, but the only goal in this match was just not fair!


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## penguin runner

PGVan said:


> I can't argue with de Jong's foul. Red card for sure. However, there were many instances where Howard Webb just blew it...
> 
> - Iniesta went after Mark van Bommel away from the ball. Just like de Jong's foul is a red in any other match, so is this, but Iniesta didn't even get a yellow card.
> 
> - Both of Heitinga's yellow cards were garbage. One of the rare players who didn't deserve a booking at all and he's the only one who gets two and sent off.
> 
> - Carlos Puyol's groping of Arjen Robben should have been his second yellow card, thus a red. Instead, Robben gets a yellow for *****ing at Webb.
> 
> - Gregory van der Wiel's yellow card was a direct result of Iniesta diving when he was not touched. Iniesta should have gotten a yellow card, not van der Wiel.
> 
> - I don't even remember what Giovanni van Bronckhorst did to get his yellow card. That tells me it couldn't have been that bad.
> 
> But the above is all subjective. It's all based on Webb's judgment, and although I didn't agree with a lot of it, I can live with it (eventually). The one mistake that I might never let go, is the one that involved ZERO JUDGMENT. Decisions like these should never be wrong at the U16 level, nevermind the World Cup Final. The decision to award Spain a goal kick when Sneijder's free kick not only hit Spain's wall (quite a significant deflection as well), but Casillas got a touch to it as well, was a travesty. That goal kick led to Spain's World Cup winning goal. I'm not saying Oranje would have scored on the corner or necessarily won the match on penalties, but the goal was not fair. Being in the 116th minute, it had a deciding effect on the World Cup.
> 
> All in all, both teams were dirty, the yellow card count should have been more even than it was, and the winning goal was a crime.
> 
> Please don't take this as saying that Spain are not worthy champions. They are, but the only goal in this match was just not fair!


Agreed 100%. Especially about the Puyol incident that ends up getting Robben carded. That was just incredibly horrible, and I really would like to know what Robben said to warrant that. It was definitely a call that should have been challenged.

Also the missing the corner kick to give a goal kick was below amateur reffing. And it wasn't even that crazy of a course the ball took... straight to wall then deflected out.

And again Spain was the better team and deserved the win... but the ref just made for a horribly ugly and unnecessarily slow and anxiety ridden game. It was just not a fun game to watch. And it did seem slightly biased in the reffing against the Dutch.

At least the 3rd place match was amazing. Makes up for the final.


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## PGVan

penguin runner said:


> At least the 3rd place match was amazing. Makes up for the final.


I didn't even watch that. Forgive my bitterness, but I don't think they should even play it. It's always entertaining because there's nothing at stake for the teams, so it's never a tactical battle like today's Final was, but the teams really don't care about it even if they say they do. I can't say I would have been too interested even if Holland was in it. I would have still watched it because they're my team, but I remember 1998 and losing the 3rd place match just didn't matter.

I read some of Fox Soccer Channel's website tonight, then deleted the link from my favourites after reading Nick Webster and Jamie Trecker's articles. The gist of their opinions are that if Holland wins doing what they needed to do to win, it's bad for football and that Bert van Marwijk is classless for taking off his 2nd place medal.

Who the **** wants a 2nd place medal? I'm surprised more Oranje team members didn't take them off. Nobody goes to a championship tournament to win second place, they go to win. This isn't the Olympics with Gold, Silver and Bronze medals. This is the World Cup where the ONLY goal is to win it all. If I was among those getting 2nd place medals, I'd take it off too.


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## renegade disaster

PGVan said:


> I can't argue with de Jong's foul. Red card for sure. However, there were many instances where Howard Webb just blew it...
> 
> - Iniesta went after Mark van Bommel away from the ball. Just like de Jong's foul is a red in any other match, so is this, but Iniesta didn't even get a yellow card.
> 
> - Both of Heitinga's yellow cards were garbage. One of the rare players who didn't deserve a booking at all and he's the only one who gets two and sent off.
> 
> - Carlos Puyol's groping of Arjen Robben should have been his second yellow card, thus a red. Instead, Robben gets a yellow for *****ing at Webb.
> 
> - Gregory van der Wiel's yellow card was a direct result of Iniesta diving when he was not touched. Iniesta should have gotten a yellow card, not van der Wiel.
> 
> - I don't even remember what Giovanni van Bronckhorst did to get his yellow card. That tells me it couldn't have been that bad.
> 
> But the above is all subjective. It's all based on Webb's judgment, and although I didn't agree with a lot of it, I can live with it (eventually). The one mistake that I might never let go, is the one that involved ZERO JUDGMENT. Decisions like these should never be wrong at the U16 level, nevermind the World Cup Final. The decision to award Spain a goal kick when Sneijder's free kick not only hit Spain's wall (quite a significant deflection as well), but Casillas got a touch to it as well, was a travesty. That goal kick led to Spain's World Cup winning goal. I'm not saying Oranje would have scored on the corner or necessarily won the match on penalties, but the goal was not fair. Being in the 116th minute, it had a deciding effect on the World Cup.
> 
> All in all, both teams were dirty, the yellow card count should have been more even than it was, and the winning goal was a crime.
> 
> Please don't take this as saying that Spain are not worthy champions. They are, but the only goal in this match was just not fair!


I agree , the ref made some crazy decisions and the match was quite poor in terms of there being too much foul play.

re: the third place playoff, I never really watch this game either. people consider the world cup to be over once the final is done. maybe they could come up with some real incentive for a team to win 3rd place other than getting a 3rd place medal.


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## penguin runner

PGVan said:


> I didn't even watch that. Forgive my bitterness, but I don't think they should even play it. It's always entertaining because there's nothing at stake for the teams, so it's never a tactical battle like today's Final was, but the teams really don't care about it even if they say they do. I can't say I would have been too interested even if Holland was in it. I would have still watched it because they're my team, but I remember 1998 and losing the 3rd place match just didn't matter.
> 
> I read some of Fox Soccer Channel's website tonight, then deleted the link from my favourites after reading Nick Webster and Jamie Trecker's articles. The gist of their opinions are that if Holland wins doing what they needed to do to win, it's bad for football and that Bert van Marwijk is classless for taking off his 2nd place medal.
> 
> Who the **** wants a 2nd place medal? I'm surprised more Oranje team members didn't take them off. Nobody goes to a championship tournament to win second place, they go to win. This isn't the Olympics with Gold, Silver and Bronze medals. This is the World Cup where the ONLY goal is to win it all. If I was among those getting 2nd place medals, I'd take it off too.


I agree that in the World Cup only winning matters. Every (4) years I forgot that they give out other medals, which shows how much I value the other places. Not that 2nd is bad... it's just not what they came to the World Cup for. But taking off the medal seems a little unsportsmanlike... sort of like (but to a lesser extreme) than the Swedish bronze medal wrestler from the Beijing Olympics. It just doesn't look good for the sport even if his actions were right, so people will criticize.

Also while the 3rd place match means pretty much nothing... it was at least a quicker paced and still very well played match. Which was lacking in many of the other matches this year. Good soccer is good soccer, no matter who wins. (btw my favourites Italy and France left real early for good reason, so without them I may have been overly bitter toward some good games.)


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## millenniumman75

Classified said:


> de Jong's kick to the chest should have been a red card, but I thought there were a lot of yellow cards that were deserved. I didn't think that the red card (2 yellows) should have been given to Heitinga. The second yellow was a bad call. There were a few other dives as well.
> 
> Both teams had chances to score, but Spain just happened to get one past the keeper.
> 
> And Paul the Octopus is great. I need to bring him to Vegas with me.


I don't know - octopi don't live all that long. :stu.


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## whiterabbit

Are people really making a big thing about Bert van Marwijk taking off his medal? That happens all the time in football. I've seen it in plenty of cup finals. People don't like coming second. I don't see it as unsportsmanlike or classless at all. The manager and the players are always disappointed and frustrated at coming second. Why would they want to wear what is actually just a loser's medal?


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## Manfi

whiterabbit said:


> Are people really making a big thing about Bert van Marwijk taking off his medal? That happens all the time in football. I've seen it in plenty of cup finals. People don't like coming second. I don't see it as unsportsmanlike or classless at all. The manager and the players are always disappointed and frustrated at coming second. Why would they want to wear what is actually just a loser's medal?


If I was in Marwijk's shoes I would have taken off my medal and thrown it in the bin! Loosing in the FINAL OF THE WC FOR THE THIRD TIME is absolutely heart breaking.


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## Scorpius

Well congrats to Spain..they deserved to win this cup

Holland could have won if they focused more on the gameplay instead of being too aggressive...The referee was a douche but most of the yellow cards were actually deserved and it's the dutch players that made the game stressful in the first place but it's the final so what do you expect..

Robben had the chance to score twice but he blew it..And Puyol didn't do **** to Robben..Robben just got mad because he couldn't score and of course he desreved the yellow card for getting mad at the ref.

Spain played better and more organized but more importantly they were better prepared mentally and they were able to keep their calm and that's why they won...of course it's never going to be fair..BS will always happen and you can't depend on the ref. decisions to save you...Spain just played smarter and took advantage of Holland aggressiveness and turned it against them


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## PGVan

Scorpius said:


> Robben had the chance to score twice but he blew it..And Puyol didn't do **** to Robben..Robben just got mad because he couldn't score and of course he desreved the yellow card for getting mad at the ref.


I have yet to hear a single member of the football media, or any fans until I read your post, who disagree with Puyol deserving a yellow card for wrapping his arms around Robben. Howard Webb didn't ignore the play as most originally thought. He played advantage, which means he knew there was a foul. Advantage was just the wrong call as there clearly was no advantage. Once Robben got back to the ball, Casillas was already there.

What Puyol did was comparable with what Heitinga did to Iniesta to get his second yellow card. The only difference was that Iniesta dove and Robben didn't.


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## Scorpius

Watch it again..






Puyol didn't really do something worth a foul
But yes what Heitinga did to Iniesta wasn't worth a foul either..but Iniesta faked it and got him in trouble...and that's what Robben should have done if he wanted to get a foul and get Puyol in trouble..he just choose to play it but Casillas was there at the right time

Iniesta got a foul easy because Holland was already playing aggressive..all he had to do was dive..this is what I mean by Spain playing smarter and taking advantage of both Holland aggressiveness and the Ref stupidity..

This is how soccer works and you know it..it's not always fair but that's because the rules and the refs allow for this kind of BS

But regardless Spain played overall better and had more control over the game...like i said Holland could have won if they were more focused on the actual game like they usually do...but they were def. too tense and aggressive in the final...being mentally prepared for the Final is very important...Holland just weren't as prepared and focused as Spain was and that's why they lost

I do like Holland, they always played with style..I'm sorry that you guys lost but to be fair Spain also played very good this cup and they just deserved to win


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## PGVan

I've watched that play many times. I kid you not, that you are the *only* opinion I have heard that doesn't think that is a yellow card offence on Puyol. As soon as he uses his right arm to try to block Robben, it is a foul. Clear as day.


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## Scorpius

It's not really a foul if Robben choose to go for the ball and didn't dive..but Iniesta choose to dive so the ref. gave him a foul.. 
My opinion is both are not worth a foul..fouls and diving are just getting ridiculous in soccer and that BS needs to change


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## PGVan

Scorpius said:


> It's not really a foul if Robben choose to go for the ball and didn't dive..but Iniesta choose to dive so the ref. gave him a foul..
> My opinion is both are not worth a foul..fouls and diving are just getting ridiculous in soccer and that BS needs to change


It was called a foul, but Webb wrongly gave the advantage when there was none. Instead of playing advantage, it should have been a free kick and a yellow card to Puyol followed by the automatic red.


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## mrbojangles

dissapointing world cup for me personally, but here are some of my favorite moments of the tournament.










fail :roll


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## moxosis

mrbojangles said:


> dissapointing world cup for me personally, but here are some of my favorite moments of the tournament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fail :roll


hahaha De Rossi, taken down by a sniper LOL.


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## renegade disaster

not sure if this has been posted , someone found it and posted the link in another wc thread on a different forum.

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/07/arjen-robben-is-ball-your-argument-is.html

some great photochops in there!


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## moxosis

PGVan said:


> There's no such thing as a 2nd half victory. A match is 90 minutes long, not 45. Last I checked, we won the match 2-1. That's all that matters, and that's Holland's new attitude. You're talking about 45 minutes of football that Holland played against a weak opponent, when they were just making sure they got the victory and qualification sealed up. All that to say they can't play against a physical opponent? That's not exactly much, now is it? Again, last time we played a truly physical opponent (Italy at EURO 2008 ), we stormed to a 3-0 win.
> 
> Weak group or not, we still won them all. Spain's was slightly more competitive, but a declining Turkey and rising Bosnia team didn't exactly push them very hard.


Go home you're drunk!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA Revenge go home Holland.
http://footyroom.com/iceland-2-0-netherlands-2014-10/

Yes I'm posting to a +4 year old comment, Holland sux ballz


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## PGVan

moxosis said:


> Go home you're drunk!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA Revenge go home Holland.
> http://footyroom.com/iceland-2-0-netherlands-2014-10/
> 
> Yes I'm posting to a +4 year old comment, Holland sux ballz


I'm drunk? LOL

My post-match thoughts were to congratulate an improving Iceland squad who caught Holland on a very bad week. (Truth be told, our win against Kazakhstan 3 days ago was also a lacking performance as far as finishing is concerned.) Now that you've spoken up arrogantly...Enjoy an early qualification victory when your opponent gifted you two goals. Holland are certainly off-key at the moment, and it was their own stupidity and sloppiness that influenced the match result. Iceland didn't win, Holland lost. The anti-football second half from Iceland was also dreadful to watch, although I accept it helped get Iceland the 3 points because Oranje were in such disarray on the attack. Give us 70% of the ball when you visit Amsterdam next year, when we've adapted to Hiddink and also have players like Vlaar, Strootman, van der Vaart and Depay hopefully no longer injured... I wish you luck in conceding less than 5 goals. We'll see who's in the mix to qualify in a year's time... although it is very possible for teams like Iceland to qualify now that UEFA added 8 teams to the Euro.


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