# Neurofeedback - My Log



## I_Dazed_I

*I know that this post VERY is long; but based on what I have experienced so far, reading this could be the begining to your new life.*

This is a giant post that is my experience log with Neurofeedback therapy. I am not pushing anyone into doing this, and if you do not want to read it, then it is fine with me. I just want a log so I can see progress, and I figured I would post it online in case others were interested.

I am not advertising for a Dr or anything, so I will try to leave links out of this post. There is a lot of info on youTube and Google, just search for "Neurofeedback" or "EEG Biofeedback".

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Note: If you have anything bad to say about Neurofeedback, for example: how it was a waste of your time and money, please refrain from posting. From what I have read, it does not work for all people and your mindset has a lot to do with it. If you are set on "it wont work" then it wont. I am not claiming that this will work for everyone, or that it will even work for me, this is just my journey through this. 

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*Backstory*
Like many people here, I have been searching for year's to trying to get my SA, or whatever you want to call it (agorophibia?), under control. I kicked it once on my own without taking meds, or seeing any dr's (long term), however I "relapsed" about a year ago and decided I needed to get on the Rx bandwagon. After the wonderful "lets see what works" weeks; I landed on 10mh Paxil and 0.5mg Klonopin. I have also been seeing a Phycologist every 2 weeks.

Since then, after seeing all the wonderful side effects, I have been cutting back and searching for a way to get rid of the drugs. I feel like I can't have a life. I still wont bring myself into an uncomfortable enviroment (dinner, movies, bars) and even if I did I feel like I would not be able to enjoy a beer or 2 socially due to the 3 days of depression that follow drinking while on Paxil (tried it). I would rather be a prisoner to my own mind than a prisoner to a drug.

*The Whacky Science*
I was recently introduced to the odd, I should say interesting, science of Neurofeedback (aka EEG Biofeedback). My brother found out about it through friends of his who used it to battle ADD, and some with minor SA, who had 100% recovery from these issues. Sounded too good to be true, so I have been doing a ton of research.

Based on what I have read online, and what the Neuro Dr ("ND") has told me, there is about an 80% chance to get rid of all symptoms and "cure" (quotes because some Dr's claim it's not a cure, but thats a whole other controversy) ADD, ADHD, anxiety, phobias, addiction problems, PTSD, etc. (Also great strides in autism). The ND I am going to claims that the 80% mark is correct, but she has never had a patient leave her office without feeling a lot better than they did before (remember, the 80% is 100% recovery).

Other things I have found online about this treatment: 

No Side Effects
After x sessions the ND will have to work with your other dr to get you off of other medications, or your brain can "overdose" since your chemical levels will go back to normal.
No homework!
Atheletes sometimes use it to help concentration, there was a case study about some soccer team in Canada using this. Also, some people will use it to just be sharper at work (CEO's, CFO's, etc.) and it can give an average of a 10 point IQ boost.
get's rid of a lot of smaller ailments suck as migranes, chronic pains, anger issues, etc.
I have only been to the assesment, and 1 warmup sessions so far. My first full blown session is tomorrow. As of right now I am a pain in the As$ because I will not make an appointment when other people are in the office, due to the panic state I go into while around people that I do not know. The ND says that after 3-5 sessions that I should be able to schedule my appts without reguard to the others there (Oh pleaseeee say it's true). Once I get to that point I may just take time off from work to get it all done in a row. I am told that I need an estimated 36 sessions, here we go!

*The Insurance Company*
So in the first trek of this journey I had to contact the insurance company to ask if this was a proceedure that they would cover. Of course it isn't since it doesn't keep the money flowing to other Dr's and Drug companies month after month. I guess most insurance companies will not cover this, which is bad news for some. The assessment was $140 for me, and each session is only $40, but that is because my ND has done the treatment herself and does not think that it should be un-affordable for others since it offers so much. I told a friend of mine about this in a major city, the price that they came up with was $180 for the assessment, and $120 out of pocket for each session.

The average number of sessions for someone trying to get rid of a deeply embeded pattern is 30-40 (My ND has peaked at 60, with 100% success, on a PTSD patient). Doing the math, for someone to try to get rid of SA @ $120 a session would end up costing ~$4900 out of pocket! I don't know what others think, but I find that a lot of SA people are middle/lower income due to the fact that we limit ourselves in our careers. So $4900 bucks is no laughing matter.

Luckily for me I have this magical money account called a flex account. I am told that gremlins steal $x from each of my paychecks and put the money into an account I can spend on anything medical. I called up the "owners" of this account and they said it was 100% fine for me to use.

*The Assessment*
This was done completely alone, nobody else is in the office besides you and the dr. They place electrodes (they only send signals back, not to your brain) on your head. You sit, eyes closed for 60 seconds; then eyes open, looking down, for 60 seconds; then you work on a puzzle, or math problem, for 60 seconds. This repeats 8 times, the elecrodes being in a different spot each time.

I leave, then get the phone call with the results: Easily distracted, super un-motivated, very high anxiety, slight depression (goes hand in hand with anxiety), horrible sleeping pattern, and a bunch of other awesome things. I hear this list and I'm thinking "great, that sounds like something that can't be fixed", so I ask the ND what she thinks and she said she has seen a lot worse and that I'm really no abnormal case (score!).

I ask what the trend is with people that this does not work well on, I am told bad diet (ughhhhhhhhhhh). I guess you want to eat a lot of "brain food", which will increase your brainpower and assist in new cell generation. Omega 3 is one of the big ones, so I have been taking those. Other things are your typical health food, but at least dark Chocolate is on the list! I guess Green Tea ranks way up there too, so at least I won't be forced to drink bland water forever. You can google "brain food list" to find a complete list.

*Session 1: The Warm-up*
The day after the assessment I go in for the warm up, which is the same as the normal sessions except it is only for 30 minutes instead of an hour. It was explined like this: "Your brain is not used to what is about to happen, so pretend it is cold silly puddy. You first need to warm it up so it is flexible.". Makes sense to me. I get there early thinking that I can get comfortable with the enviroment and deal with other people being there. i sat down, but my mind said "I don't think so buddy" and started the typical panic responses. I tell her I need some time and go outside for awhile. Another person leaves, leaving 1 other, I try again. Fail. The last leaves and I get connected fine. For this session I just sat there eyes closed for 30 minutes (10 minute intervols) listening to "music, which was just a bunch of tones.

Now I don't think that I would notice anything after the initial warm-up session, but I do know that I was having trouble sleeping for about a week prior, and on this night I slept like a baby. Possibly unrelated.

*Session 2*
Today was my first hour session, which actually went by a lot faster than I thought it would. 5-10 minute sittings listening to "annoying" sounds. I would hear either clicks, bells, or a low tone, depending on which area was being "worked on". I was told that the click means that my brain is meeting 3 correct criterias, and the low tones means I was only hitting 2 of them. Typically I would hear a lot of low tones, and random clicks here and there, but there were a few points where the lows completelty stopped and it went click click click for 10-15 seconds. 3 more appointments scheduled for next week, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. By Wednesday, I am told, I should be noticing results.

Only side effect is a bad headache, which may just be a tension headache since I had one of those yesterday too. I was told by my Chyro that I am more sensative to pain than the average person, I don't remember why, but hopefully this Neuro can address that issue as well.

*Session 3*
No headache today, so I am ruling that to be tension from last week. Nothing unusual to report. Listened to a bunch of clicks and whistles lol. Went to a hardware store after and was fine, then got cornered between 2 workers, 1 of which was asking about my "personal life" in terms of cooking for myself or someone else. The other one, an attractive female, listening in (doh!), I could feel myself start to lose it a little. She walked off for a second and everything went back to normal. Maybe this is just me being shy :$


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## I_Dazed_I

*Session 4*
Nothing interesting to report. I did find out that there is another procedure, I should say machine, I think called a BAUD that is used for more specific thought "repair". I was told that Neurofeedback is used for a more generalizzed relief from anxiety, depression, etc. Someone who has a phobia has a pattern burned into their brain, this area will trigger easier than other area's. What the BAUD does is dissapate this created path so it is no longer easily obtainable. (From what I understood).

*Session 5*
Nothing abnormal in the treatment today, but I did notice a few things. 1) I went there this morning while there was a "full house". 3 people hooked up, 1 person waiting, and then me waiting. I didn't feel an ounce of anxiety while waiting, which is very odd. So, on session 1 I would not even go into the place if there were others there, without feeling like I was going to freak, and now on session 5 I went in with 4 others and started conversations. I wonder if this is me just normalizing the enviroment, or if this is actually working?

After this session, I had to bring my dog to the vet. Once again, a waiting room filled with people, one of them being an old friend I haven't seen in 2 years. Typically running into someone I haven't seen in years would trigger huge panic response, and I would find some way out of talking to them. Not this time, I started talking to them and it felt completely natural, no jitters, feeling of redness, racing thoughts, etc. Best of all, conversation didn't feel forced, like it normally does. I chatted with them for a good 10-15 mins before they were called in, then started another conversation with someone I didn't even know. Yeah, that's not the me that I have grown to hate, this is starting to get fun.

Hopefully this wasn't just a "good day" and this sticks, we'll find out in time.

*Session 6*
The normal stuff. I saw someone else there that was going for anxiety as well. She had been going for ~2 months and said that she is having more good days then bad ones now. This person was also taking supplements. I asked about them and the Dr explained that you can send out a hair sample to get analyzed, and they will tell you what you should have. She said; if someone comes in and they are not having good results, if they take the supplements recommended that everything will fall back into place. Sounds like a scam, but she does not take any markup so it's probably on the up n up. I'll be sending out a hair sample, yay.

Dr noticed my good day yesterday and said she was surprised that I came in and sat down, since it was a zoo in there. Today when I went in I was on edge, but that only lasted a few minutes.

*Session 7*
Baaaddd day. I knew early on today that it was going to be a rough one. Got to the office, 3 new people in there that I had not met. Had to sit aside, then take a walk, before finally saying "just do it". I was on edge pretty much the whole time. Can't expect them all to be good, right?

Some observations from the weekend. I am a lot more externally focused, which means when people are talking... I can actually pay attention to what they are saying. I don't have very much of the "you're gunna freak" internal dialog. The only time I did have the internal dialog is when I met a little hottie while bringing the dog for a walk. It didn't seem to last long though.

*Session 8*
An alone session today, so I had a chance to ask the Doc some things. i asked what she thought of my progress, and what the deal with yesterday was. She says that she can see improvements on my graphs, but I am not taking to it as well as usual. Said that it should be working faster. She also noticed that my skin color was very pale when i first started going, my color came back last week (the good week), and it is once again starting to fade. I need to send out a hair analisys...

She really wasn't sure why I had such a bad day yesterday. I told her about the "less internal dialog" and asked if I had noticed it return. I cannot recall a switch turning on, so I wasn't sure. Maybe pushing myself to chat with the hottie was too much too soon? Who knows.

I asked a little more about this BAUD, since I should be doing that by now. I guess how this works is; you get hooked up then visualize a situation that would create your typical panic resoponses... Problem there, after years of trying to use cognitive theropy, I cannot visualize a bad moment. When I think about something stressful, it's never that way in my mind, only reality makes it this way. If i can't force panic, then the BAUD will not work. That's bad news.

*Session 9*
I was told to really think about what I want to use the BAUD for. Still have no idea...

I asked the doc is she thought that my issues could be caused by a digestive problem. (graphic yucky content coming): My first ever attack was after having a HUGE bm. The following day, a follow up attack, I did the same thing while having the attack. Most days that I do not feel "good" on, and have high anxiety, are days where I get constipated. The Doc asked how often I "go", and I tell her "once a week maybe, I have gone a month without going". Her jaw dropped to the floor, and she said that it's very likely that that is what caused my "attack life" issues. I was told to try Sillinium? tablets, which should help regulate me.

I sent out my hair sample today, which will also tell me if the BM thing is what is causing a lot of the issue. I guess when you "don't go" for a long time; your body just holds onto toxins, and also has trouble gaining nutrients from incoming foods. Basically, I am poisoning myself by not worshiping the porclean once a day. Signs of this causing issues: bad motivation (I have), slugishness (I have), bad skin pigment (Didn't I mention this yesterday?), etc. I guess it's time to regulate.

What pisses me off, I have been to various doctors for years about anxiety, and this had never come up before. After telling my primary about the once a week habit, he said "If that is what your body is used to, then that's what it's used to". Grrrr

*Session 10*
More questions about the BAUD. When am I going to start using this thing? how does it work? How long does it take? I guess I can use this thing whenever I feel like using it. I guess it works by sending sound frequencies into your head which will dissapate a thought pattern. Each ear would have a different frequency, meeting in the center. I guess it will get rid of common thought patterns. She likes to have people get rid of something small, to show that it does work, and then tackle the bigger problem. For example: If you hated when someone used a particular word, then you would visualize someone saying this word, the BAUD then dissapates the thought patterns that the word creates in your brain. I guess, with people trying to quit something like smoking, only 2 10 minute sittings is enough to get rid of the addictive feeling. However, for smoking or other drugs, it will not get rid of the habitual need. Heroin addicts also need an extra boost.

What does this mean for me? It sounds like it would get rid of the thought pattern that creates internal dialog when I feel an attack coming on. Ex: standing in line at the grocery store, being in a large crowd, etc.

I also found out that anyone can buy this thing, for the super low cost of $500 lol. I can't see the need to buy one, but for someone who has a lot of bad thought patterns, it could prove useful.

*Session 11*
Typical stuff. The Dr said that she sees a lot of good change in my brain activity, but I am somewhat random. I am "learning" as I should be, but some days I come in and it's like I am back at square 1. it doesn't "stick" for some reason. She said this is usually a sign of a metabolic issue, which should be worked out when I get the hair sample back.

I attempted the BAUD... FAIL. She told me to visualize something I wanted to fix, then turn a pitch knob up until I was feeling what I would normally feel. It did not work. I could not visualize it. I talked with her about it for awhile, and she said "what if you were in a diner trying to do this". Obviously this would kick my panic symptoms up so I told her that would work. She then asked me to go to a diner with her! lol. I explained that that was not going to happen. Now what, argh.

*Session 12*
I was talking to the doc about my progress so far, and what I have noticed. She says it varries from person to person, but so far I have noticed:

1) No negative thinking. I can't even try to get myself on a negative thought pattern. It's weird. 
2) No depressed days. I would just get certain days where I didn't want to do anything at all. I would listen to depressing music, or watch something depressing. I haven't done that in awhile. 
2) Alot better attention span at work. Rather than jumping from task to task all day like I usually do, I noticed that I have been staying on point. 
3) For some reason, I have less nicotine cravings. This wasn't planned, but is not a bad thing.

As for the attacks; I still have them from time to time, but I think it would be un-realistic to think that after 12 sessions I could get rid of them completely. I'm not even at the half way point yet.

I tried the BAUD today. So I had to visualize myself in a situation that causes anxiety, not an easy task. Then you adjust the pitch of the tone you are listening to and it will intensify the feeling (voluntary panic, awesome). After that you turn a knob for distortion, or something like that, and it will make the panic go away. You sit there and concentrate on whatever the visualization was, then your mind will wander off and think of something else on it's own. You do that twice, then stop.

Continued on post #9


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## jonny neurotic

Sounds interesting. It's kind of like a scientific version of meditation. Personally I'd like to give it a go...


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## WanderingSoul

I'm currently doing this and was thinking of making a thread but looks like you beat me to the punch! I like it though, very thorough, and I'm eager to see your long term results.


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## Tangerine

Neurofeedback has interested me for a while, great post. I won't have the funds to try it anytime soon, but it's sure interesting!


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## I_Dazed_I

Tangerine said:


> Neurofeedback has interested me for a while, great post. I won't have the funds to try it anytime soon, but it's sure interesting!


If you are serious about it, and can travel, look out of state. The place that I am going has to be about as cheap as it gets. $120 assessment, $40 per session. You can always take a vacation and knock all of the sessions out in a few days (up to 3 a day). I can give you info, but would rather not do it publicly to avoid this being an "advertising thread". Toss me a PM if interested.


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## Green Eyes

Where I have therapy they also do Neurofeedback. I'm intersted in if it really helps with anxiety.


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## I_Dazed_I

Green Eyes said:


> Where I have therapy they also do Neurofeedback. I'm intersted in if it really helps with anxiety.


Have you looked into the price over there? I am curious about it overseas. The laws are probably more laxed which would make it more available.


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## I_Dazed_I

*Session 13*
Typical stuff. Didn't get any sleep last night, and pulled a muscle in my neck, so I'm a little distracted with pain today. Didn't really chat with the Dr about much since she was otherwise engaged.

*Stalemate*
Last Tuesday ( I think it was ) I went to go for my typical appointment. My hair results had come in, uh oh, and the doc told me that she would rather not hook me up until I had taken some supplements for awhile. I look at the results of the test; I'm low in almost everything. The big concern was low iron, which causes Depression and Anxiety. I ask if I should get some iron supplement while waiting for the "big shipment" to come in. She tells me no. 

*The Reasoning*
What most people don't know is that all of your nutrition works together, so getting iron supplements would not really do me any good. In this case, I was also low on Magnesium (I think it was) which aids the body in the digestion of iron. Taking an iron supplement would do me no good because without the magnesium my body would just end up spitting most of it out. So we wait. 

*The Arrival*
Last Thursday the supplements arrive, a huge box of fun. I now am taking 7 pills per meal! Let me try to remember off of the top of my head: 
- Vit E
- Vit C
- HCL
- Adrenel Complex
- Para Pack (Contains a lot of different things)
- Min-plex B (Magesium, Chromium, and B6)

*The Pills: Day 1*
I have trouble swallowing pills, so this was not a fun day! The HCL pills dissolve in your mouth as soon as they hit, by the time you swallow they are all gritty and always get stuck. Anyway, as mentioned a few days prior to my absence I pulled my neck muscles. The day the pills arrived, my neck was still as sore as the day it happened. 3 hours after taking the pills, the constant pain was gone; I still had some movement pain, but no ache. I was pretty much dumbfounded. 

*The Weekend: Enter the BAUD*
Jumping topics from pills to the BAUD. Since I could not visualize my issues I asked to borrow the BAUD (it's just a bit bigger than an iPhone, thicker). I was still told to try to use it on something stupid before going after the big demons. Well, that night I found the perfect thing. While trying to take the HCL pills, I ended up choking on both of them, which kicked panic into high gear. I got the shakes like crazy, and was having a mini attack after getting them down. A friend was over and witnessed the whole thing. So I told him I was going to go into the other room and see what this magical BAUD can actually do. I sit there, still in panic mode, and mess with the settings until I felt something, then I hit the disruptor and stayed on the same "I'm going to choke and die" thought for awhile. I stop, the shakes are gone. Interesting. 
The next day, I go to take the HCL again. Once again it gets caught in my throat, but this time something is different. I sit there calmly, take another drink of water, and down it goes. Same thing happens with HCL #2. Afterwards, no shakes, no panic, no nothing... Wtf, this thing actually works?

*The Silly BAUD P2: Being Alone Makes Me a Sad Panda*
So I have been on some dating sites, a bit premature since I am not fixed yet, but I figure I'm not the type that's going to say hi to someone and immediately ask them out anyway. Now I have been off of the market for 12 years, so I have a little trouble playing the dating game. A little trouble is an understatement; I have no idea how to play the dating game lol. Anyway, I get some winks, throw out some emails, and then wait for replies. Like a moron I check my email CONSTANTLY, not so much out of desperation, more out of respect (So I try to tell myself lol). I myself HATE waiting for someone to reply to any type of media, whether it's via email, text, talk, whatever, and so I try to have the courtesy to be quick with the replies. Well, this apparently is a creepy stalker flag because after 2-3 emails I would get cold trails. This anxious email syndrome has to go. 

Enter the BAUD. Again I go through the procedure, this time thinking to myself "I need to check my email, what if someone replied. I don't want to seem rude since I am on the site all day long. I also don't want to look like I am playing games. I have to check my email. I have to check my email". Awhile goes by and I purposely avoid my phone. Finally I log in; as expected 0 emails. Unexpected; no feeling of lonely pathetic loser (lol), not at all. I wasn't anxious that I didn't get anything; I wasn't worried if they even ever replied. If they are interested, they will say something. Go go gadget BAUD!

*What Drugs?*
I am running out of Paxil, it's time to $^&% or get off of the pot. Let's get off of the pot. I see my psychiatrist and tell her that I plan to just let it run out. I have no refills, which she would have provided, and no way of "getting my fix" during withdrawal. I'm only on 5mg anyway, so the withdrawals shouldn't be too too bad. I have 1 pill sitting in the script bottle, just in case. 

Day 1-2: No withdrawal. TOOK THE BAUD AND WENT TO BREAKSFAST FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 2 YEARS! Additional awesome points: I went alone to a place I had never been to. Take that agoraphobia! I started to feel a little nervous half way through, so I told them to watch my plate (sitting at the bar), run out to the car, get my BAUD fix, then go back in. After going back in the feeling was nirvana. I was completely relaxed, not internally focused, looking around, and talking to people. Awesome!

Day 3-current: OMFG. Anyone who has ever come off of an SSRI probably knows what the whoosh and zap is. I am getting those like crazy. It seems that the later in the day it is, the more often the zaps come. Around 9pm I am on a 10 second zap interval or less. For those of you who don't know what the Zap is: (from what I gathered online) Your brains neurons, without the drugs, end up short circuiting and fire off in all sorts of different directions. This literally creates the feeling of electric shock inside your head, followed by dizziness. I guess these should go away after about a week, but could take up to 7 (please no)

*The Pills: Current*
Typically when coming off of an SSRI they say that your moods will swing, well I think my body's nutrition (even though it has only been a week) is saying "screw you paxil!". Depressed? not at all, not a little, not a lot, not anything. I have seriously never felt so good in my entire life. I'm just plain happy, which until recently I used to think was a made up bull**** word because I had never experienced it before.


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## I_Dazed_I

*The Side Effects of Happy*
For the last 4 days my mood has been insanely good. Even with the crazy withdrawal symptoms which I can see killing anyone's good mood. 

Other side effects: 

- I actually pay attention when someone is talking to me; I have genuine interest in what they have to say. I'm not forcing a fake "I care" attitude, for once, I actually do.

- Work seems fun again! Yes, I still worked a big time high pressure job, but instead of thinking "I'm so screwed, I'll never get this done"; I just drop the hammer, turn up the music, and go into turbo mode. 

- The SSRIsWD is making me lose sleep; I went to bed at 2am and woke up at 6am. For me, this would be a "call in sick and sleep all day" day. Not anymore, I had full energy all day (even with the whoosh and zaps). Now that works over I probably should get some sleep, but no I am writing a freaking book on a website that probably nobody is reading (your loss). 

- A lot more things in life are funny, interesting, entertaining; I know what people mean when they give you the BS line "I'm high on life". 

However, I am still being realistic. Will this feeling hold? Only 1 way to find out; time. 

*Session 14*
Since the zaps are caused by certain neurons in the brain going whacky, we attempted to target these with today's session. However, I don't think it worked well since I am still getting them pretty bad. She mentioned that it was kind of experimental since the waves are being caused by an actual substance. She does think that the BAUD may be able to get them back on track, since reassigning brain waves is what it does. I am borrowing that this weekend again to see if it can help. 

I also wanted to throw a note out there. I asked the Dr if she had ever seen anyone have physical side effects to NF, without telling her why I was asking. She said that she had 1 girl come in who was allergic to a lot of different things. By the time she was done, she didn't have an allergic reaction to anything anymore; this was not planned (or even thought of). The reason I asked is because I noticed that I was breathing out of both nostrils. I have NEVER been able to breathe out of both at the same time; it's always one or the other. What a weird side effect, someone should really study this. Are allergies caused by misplaced brainwaves? It's a histamine thing, but if the brainwaves are not telling the brain to create the correct chemicals, an allergy would occur, correct? The whacky science at it again. 

*Session 15*
I have a rough Sunday and Monday, but I think it was due to paxil widthdrawal. Well, I have been trying wines lately, and someone recommended a wine that had no "kick" at all, so I drank an entire bottle on Saturday night. Sunday was probably half hangover. Monday I had the Paxil Flu I think. My muscles had NOTHING in them all day. I even had to take a nap on my lunch break. 

Today however, I am feeling the full energy rush that I was feeling all of last week. I asked how my graphs look, and the doc said "normal". Normal being how they should, not normal as in what I usualy show. 

I also asked the doc to email me my original brain scan so I could post it up here. I'll see if she can't do some mark up on it to it's something that the general population can read. 

Addition: Some things that I forgot to mentioned. I looked into what can get rid of the ZAPs from SSRIWD, and it said fish oil. Now i was taking these before, but since the supplements came I had stopped. I didn't want the fish oil to screw with something else. Over the weekend I took 2 fish oils in the morning, and 2 in the afternoon. After only 2 days the Zaps have gone down a ton. I still get one here and there, but it's no where near as intense as it was. If I were to try to count I would say that I went from 7 an hour on average, to maybe 3 a day. So that's a good thing. 

I just went through and re-read my entire post thus far, and I have realized that I had an insanely high amount of typos when I first started this procedure. I don't know how anyone can even read the garbled mess that I was spitting out. So there's another effect I guess, less typos! lol. I think I am just paying attention to detail, without trying to, a lot more than I used to. 

*Session 16*
I think I may have missed a session in here due to the insanity of work lately. I was only able to get into the office once this week, the doc is booked full and is only in for 3 days. No worries though as I am still waiting for the paxil widthdrawals to dissapate completely. I am down to very very very small zaps, almost no dizzyness, still some muscle weakenss, and almost nothing else. That said; my energy is almost back to where it was when I made the "big update", and my mood is still very stable. Score!

So something interesting, and hopefully helpful, happened a few days ago. A girl that I "know" (facebook) was posting something about being stressed, so I sent her a message asking about the extent of it; since I see her posting stuff like this a lot. Turns out that her and I have a lot in common, she's no where near the extent that I am at though. i told her about this "plan" that I am doing and that she should look into it. 

Time goes on and a lightbulb clicks in my head. One of the things that I need to use the BAUD for is when I am approached by people I don't know that well (usually females lol). I really have no way of creating this situation without making it look super weird, so I explained to her what I needed to do and hopefully we are going to let this scenario play out. Since she knows what I am trying to do, it will not seem that odd to her, which will alleviate a lot of the "wtf is this dude doing" stress and let me focus on the actual panic responses. 

I am hoping to be able to pull this off this weekend, but she is out of town a lot so I'm not sure if I will be able to. I really want to get it done with though; this is one of the only major issues that I have left, which is holding my life back. 

When life is within arms reach, mocking you; patience is no virtue. 

*Session 17*
Lets start with the bad note. I have been talking to this girl that I met online, Friday came and I get the dreaded text "we should do something together". I knew it was coming, but I was hoping it would take a little longer. Hey, I can't help the fact that I'm awesome, lol. Anyway, it was stuck in my head that I cannot do this, so I made some BS excuse to avoid it. She KIND OF knows the situation, and I told her that I am not currently meeting up with people. However, she does not know how severe it was/is yet. I'm not dropping that bomb until I have to. 

So, pissed off at myself on Friday i figured that I NEED to force myself to do something out of my comfort zone. Lets go bar hopping. I got all sexy beast, hopped in the car, and went into town. I could not get myself to actually go into any place though, ugh. Alas, I had the BAUD with me; so I drove to a vacant parking lot, used that thing for awhile, then my attitude had changed. I go to the "bar street", get out, and end up hopping 5 different places looking for someone I knew. Sadly, I did not know anyone so my stay at these places was under 5 minutes each, but it is a start! Given a sidekick some night, I don't see any issues with me being out on the town anymore. 

Today, this is 17.5; yesterday I went in, sat for 10 minutes, and then HAD to leave. Did you know that coming off from an SSRI will bind your bowels with boulders? Needless to say... I'm a hurting unit this week. Session went well today though; I looked at one of my graphs and asked if she had put me on an easy one, she did not. My brain is just gripping the stuff a lot better than it has been. 

Now if I could only get rid of this Indiana Jones crusher in my gut...

*Session 18*
Nothing new today, I did manage to solve this round rubix cube type of thing with my eyes closed lol. Luck. 

*Session 19*
Nothing new, for now... But this weekend is going to be interesting to say the least. Time to face it all!

*Session 20*
Nothing new with the session, but I managed to go get a hair cut this morning. That's something I haven't done in awhile. Also did some shopping with no signs of anxiety. Good stuff.


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## tobi08

Hi dazed,

good to see you improving. I really appreciate your posts.


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## I_Dazed_I

tobi08 said:


> Hi dazed,
> 
> good to see you improving. I really appreciate your posts.


Good to know that someone is reading this lol. I wouldn't mind if nobody did though, someday someone will probably come across it and it could change their lives.


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## tobi08

I_Dazed_I said:


> Good to know that someone is reading this lol. I wouldn't mind if nobody did though, someday someone will probably come across it and it could change their lives.


i dont think so that nobody reads it, most people are probably to shy to answer. I find these technologies also helpful, i use binaural beat cds which also help with my anxiety. Its similar to neurofeedback i think.


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## I_Dazed_I

tobi08 said:


> i dont think so that nobody reads it, most people are probably to shy to answer. I find these technologies also helpful, i use binaural beat cds which also help with my anxiety. Its similar to neurofeedback i think.


I know that that there are a few variations, and some variations that work on other areas of the body such as heart rate, breathing, etc. The popular one that I have read a little about is called LENS, but I guess some people are skeptical about it because that type of NF actually sends electrical impulses into your head. That doesn't sound like fun.


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## WanderingSoul

Thanks for your journal. I'm looking forward to the day I start feeling as much energy as you. So far I have done 4 sessions. I went primarily for LENS but she has hooked me up to other machines (one called ZenGar and I forget the other one...). So far I haven't had a drastic change. There are moments, however, when I feel a sense of calm and clarity that I haven't felt for years. Those moments are only fleeting, as of now. Hopefully, when I get up to 20 session, like you, I will be feeling and behaving a lot healthier.


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## I_Dazed_I

hikkikomori said:


> Thanks for your journal. I'm looking forward to the day I start feeling as much energy as you. So far I have done 4 sessions. I went primarily for LENS but she has hooked me up to other machines (one called ZenGar and I forget the other one...). So far I haven't had a drastic change. There are moments, however, when I feel a sense of calm and clarity that I haven't felt for years. Those moments are only fleeting, as of now. Hopefully, when I get up to 20 session, like you, I will be feeling and behaving a lot healthier.


Did they ask you to get your hair tested? As you can read, I would HIGHLY recommend it. At least look into better Neuro Plasticity.

Don't read what I have written expecting to fall into the same path. Everyone is different, it all depends on the brain, and what they end up training first. They also should not tell you what you will be feeling because it creates a fake response. If they tell you that you will this clearer, then you will always be on the lookout for this.


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## I_Dazed_I

Post #10 update


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## kesker

I did CBT for 5 years which was extremely helpful in all areas of my life except SA which it had zero effect on. It was suggested to me by a medical intuitive that i pursue neurofeedback and it sounds like it is definitely worth a try but, like you say, extremely expensive, to the point of being cost prohibitive for me. I hope I can find an affordable provider but it doesn't look good at this point.


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## matt860

Interesting posts about your experience with NF. I'm not against NF, I think it works for some folks. But I spent a whole lot of money on it, to no avail. So YMMV. I did 47 sessions total, plus 3 TOVA tests; sessions included traditional neurofeedback, LENS, Z-Score neurofeedback; light and electro-magnetic ROSHI


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## I_Dazed_I

*Session 21-22*
Again, nothing new session wise, however lifewise I took a big step... I had a date, well... kind of? I had been talking to someone I met online for a week or so, explained my "situation" and told them "unless you plan on coming over for a quiet night in, we won't be meeting up for awhile". It was kind of said as a joke, but she said "yeah, I'm cool with that" (wtf?). So we made plans for me to make dinner last Friday. 

Before she showed up I was nervous as all hell; shakes minimal, mostly just felt overheated. That could have been because I was standing over a stove though lol. Then, disaster struck! My work phone goes off, and then my personal cell goes off at the same time, argh! I was being called in, and she was circling the road asking which driveway was mine. I ended up hanging up on work (oops lol), and tending to my guest. I had warned her that this may happen; so I went out to meet her, ask her to just come in and make herself at home, and went to deal with work (I work from home). Luckily it was only a 5 minute call. When it rains it pours. 

Longer story short; besides the typical "dating awkwardness" I was as relaxed as if I had know this person forever. Come to find out she was more nervous than I was, she admitted as the night went on and everything was a bit more comfortable. 

So, huge step complete. Step 2; the restraunt setting, not sure I'm ready for that with a "new person" yet, but it seems throwing myself to the sharks worked just fine. 

*Session 23-24*
So today I looked at my chart of how many hours I have worked on each individual "item" that is to be addressed. It seems that I am scheduled for 8 hours of Anxiety, and have only done 5 so far, which I am taking as a good thing. I've also only done ~6 hours of an estimated 20 (I think it was) in concentration, focus, etc.


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## I_Dazed_I

*Session 25-26*
Moving backwards, not good. The last week or so has been pretty dark, lots of negative stuff. Yesterday I bailed standing in line, 3 times. Today I go to the docs, she hooks me up, and I make her unplug everything to go for a walk for a minute. Wonderful.

These may not be bad signs. I was talking to the phych and she said that if my body no longer needs Klonopin then it can have adverse effects on my system, causing anxiety and depression. I have only been on 1/4 of .5 for the last few months, so now it's time to take it out of the equation. For now I am dropping to every other day. On the days without it I do notice that I am in a better mood, which helps reinforce the idea that the drugs are now doing damage.

The ND says I should try to log what I notice on days without vs days with for now. This may be difficult as I start a vacation today, for deer season, and my sleep schedule is going to go from normal to; Bed: 10pm, Awake: 4:30am, Bed: 9:30-10am, Awake: ~1pm, Repeat.

The next week should be fun.


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## I_Dazed_I

*The Double Edged Sword*
Bad report... So I am free of all meds now, I dropped klonopin early last week. A few days after dropping it, my mood had lifted, but my anxiety had spiked big time, which I guess is to be expected. I did 2 visits for NF and felt a lot better after each visit, but it keeps coming back. Today I went in just to talk to the doc about it. She has seen others "relapse' after dropping benzos, but never back to stage 1. 

I am pretty much at stage 1 again, had trouble just getting a coffee this morning. However, it is odd, 1 minute I will feel completely fine, like I can do anything, the next minute I don't even want to leave the house. I'm not sure what is causing it, probably benzo WD's, but I am going to have her to another assessment next week so we can work off of a completely un-medicated brain chart. 

There could be a lot of other factors involved on why this is happening again, I've had a lot of thoughts running through my head recently. Lets spill them out onto "paper". First, work; I kind of feel like I am falling behind the ball lately. Tech advances so fast and due to all of this personal stuff I am dealing with, I just can't seem to keep up. New hires are coming in that seem to have almost as much knowledge as I do... bah. Second, my position in life; I'm far from old, but I am not where I planned to be. I put myself into a position working from home, I moved out of state for the college years which caused me to loose a lot of friendly ties that I could have made/kept if I had stayed in the area. Also, my dedication to the opposite sex has done a number on my personal life, and with the current "issue" I don't exactly know how to go about creating a new one. I also despise winter, all of my hobbies get put on hold for almost 6 months because the cold is the devil. ugh. 

All of this is depressing crap that never bothered me before, so maybe I can just chalk it up to benzo WD's making my brain run rapid. I'm sure all will fall into place, it just takes time.


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## boritta

*Dikkat Eksikliği tedavisinde Neurofeedback* Terapisi hakkında *Nöroterapist Dr. Bora Küçükyazıc*ı'nın bir makalesini buldum:

Dikkat eksikliğine bağlı sıkıntı yaşayan kişi sayısı gün geçtikçe artış göstermektedir. Dikkat eksikliği sıradan bir dalgınlık değil, tıbbi testler ile tanısı konulan bir bozukluktur. 
Dikkat testleri ile elde edilen bilimsel veriler, dikkat eksikliği ve hiperaktivite bozukluğunda tanı konulmasında uzmanlara yol göstermektedir. Son 20 sene içinde Dikkat Eksikliği ve Hiperaktivite Bozukluğu tanısı konulan çocuk sayısında ciddi artış gözlenmektedir. Bunun sebebi, 20 sene öncesine kadar bu rahatsızlığın daha az gözlenmesi değil, günümüz tanı koşullarının ve uygulanan test sistemlerinin gelişmiş olmasındandır. Neurofeedback yöntemi ile, dikkatin odaklanması ve odaklanılmış dikkatin sürdürülmesi becerilerini geliştirmek mümkündür.

Dikkat Eksikliği ve Hiperaktivite Bozukluğu tanısı, özellikle çocuk ve ergenlerde, uzman çocuk ve ergen psikiyatristi tarafından konulmalı ve tedavisi ilgili uzman doktor tarafından düzenlenmelidir. Amerikan Pediatri Birliği'nin Aralık 2011'de yayınladığı DEHB Tedavi Kılavuzunda, tanı ve tedavi uygulamasının 4 yaşından itibaren başlatılması gerekliliği ön planda tutulmaktadır. Zira çocuk çağında 4 yaşından itibaren bu rahatsızlığın tanısının konması mümkün olduğu gibi, tedavi konusunda izlenecek yeni ve farklı birçok alternatifler gelişmektedir. Çocuğun dikkat düzeyi ve dikkat derinliği, öğrenme sürecinde çok önemlidir. Çevresinden doğru mesajları alması, bu mesajları doğru yorumlaması ve öğrenme sürecinde bu mesajları kullanması için, dikkat süreci eksiksiz çalışmalıdır. Eğer aile çocuğunda dikkat eksikliği sorunu olduğunu fark etmez ya da gerekli tedaviyi doğru uzmanlardan almaz ise, çocukta okul eğitim-öğretim sisteminde anaokulundan itibaren akademik sorunlar yaşanabilir. Neurofeedback terapisi, dikkat eksikliğinin tedavisinde tıp hekimlerinin uyguladığı bir tedavi yöntemidir.

*Dikkat Eksikliğine Bağlı Belirtiler*

Çocuklar genel olarak aktif, meraklı ve heyecanlıdırlar. Dikkat Eksikliği olan çocuğun ailesi adına bazen çocuklarında böyle bir sorun olduğunu kabul etmeleri kolay olmaz. Aileleri en çok yanıltan ise, çocuğun saatlerce televizyon izleyebilmesi ya da bilgisayar oyunları oynuyor olmasını, dikkatiyle ilgili bir sorun olmadığı yönünde değerlendirmeleridir. Dikkat Eksikliği ve Hiperaktivite Bozukluğu sorunu olan çocuklar, kendi istedikleri şekilde televizyon izlerken ya da bilgisayarda oyun oynarken bir sorun yoktur. Bu rahatsızlıkta beynin etkilenen bölgesindeki değişimlere bağlı olarak, çocuğun kendi istediği bir aktivitede ve çocuğun istediği zaman diliminde dikkatini toplamasında problem yoktur. Sorun, dikkatin özellikle yönlendirilmesi gereken bir konu olduğunda dağılmasıdır. Sınıf ortamı, ders dinlenmesi, ev ödevlerinin yapılması, bir spor aktivitesinde takım oyuna uyum gibi konularda, dikkatin özel olarak toplanması gerektiği anlarda, dikkat eksikliği ortaya çıkmaktadır.

*Kaynak Makale: http://cocukvegenc.com/icerikdetay-132/dikkat-eksikligi-nedenleri-ve-neurofeedback-tedavisi.html*


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## I_Dazed_I

*Guess Who's Back?*
It's been a long time since I made a post. Partly because I have taken 2 vacations, and been super busy. Lets play catch up. 

Ok, so my last post was very negative, and I can't say that I am back to my peak performance again, but things have been on the up and up. I still don't know what caused the little relapse, I think it was the combination of a lot of things. 

Winter hit, my anxiety seems to hit pretty hard at the same time each year, so I think I may have a bit of SAD. Bought some Vit D and a lightbox, been using those now and then. It's helping I think, although it could just be mind trickery. 

Lack of support group. This is probably a big one, when winter hits my usually friends all seem to part ways until the spring comes back. Hunting seasons, winter jobs, etc. No venting = bottling = rapid thoughts = breakdown. 

1 bad day turns to bad weeks. I know that I do this, but if I have 1 agorophobic episide, caused by anything from low blood sugar to coffee jitters, I'll lock it in my head that its going to happen again. This is typical for any panic disorder obviously, so I need to stop with it. Hit the BAUD a few times and tapered it off, but I am not to the point of pushing myself. 

Female involvement. Say whattt, the date I posted about a long time ago went well, but we both had issues that we needed to work out before moving forward. My negative brain over analyzed this into a female playing typical females games (no offence ladies  ), and it was rough not know what was going on from day to day. The situation took a drastic turn recently and has been really good, and helpful, for the both of us. She knows about the situation, and doesn't push too hard, but doesn't coddle either. So now and then I am forced into a situation that I do not want to be in, but I don't shy out of it knowing that its good for me anyway. So far, I'm still alive 

The possible main cause. I think I have major digestive issues. I may even go to my primary and see what kind of tests they can run. 
**Disclaimer: Poop talk coming** 
So I notice on days that I don't 'go', or days after I don't go, are the bad days. I get really pale, shaky, etc. Mostly what seem to be panic symptoms, but after "launching the brown October" all of these symptoms dissapate until the next missle is ready. When I do go, and I should not have used the word missle, it ends up looking like what I can imagine a human sized Bugs Bunny would drop. Small clumps, sometimes singular, malted chocolate balls. I started taking 3 fiber tablets a day to try to fix this. The doc wonders if I don't have some sort of enzyme problem since alot of the symptoms I list are typical Anemia symptoms. Tomorrow I am eating a high iron diet to see if it doesn't help at all. 

As for the NF, I had another assessment done, first time she's ever had to do it twice I guess, and got to see a map of actual progress. She did say that my anxiety levels are still high, and either I moved way too much or I am an emotional mess. I told her that it was likely the latter, but she didn't believe me. I have only been going once a week lately, due to the vacations and whatnot, but I plan to make her start doing at least 2, hopefully 3, until this is done with. After going to a session I feel great, so if I have to do that every freaking day until it's gone, I really dont care.​


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## Isabelle50

This is a really interesting log. I did some neurofeedback work last year (before heading into a really, deep, dark depression) but it was only a couple of sessions. I remember being surprised by how much she could tell about me from my brain....

I'll admit I'm a little skeptical of the whole deal but it looks like you had some impressive success there for a while. Does your doctor address how permanent the gains are? When she says 80% of people are cured is that just when they leave her practice or is it lasting? I think I need to do some research on this, sounds very interesting....


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## I_Dazed_I

Isabelle50 said:


> This is a really interesting log. I did some neurofeedback work last year (before heading into a really, deep, dark depression) but it was only a couple of sessions. I remember being surprised by how much she could tell about me from my brain....
> 
> I'll admit I'm a little skeptical of the whole deal but it looks like you had some impressive success there for a while. Does your doctor address how permanent the gains are? When she says 80% of people are cured is that just when they leave her practice or is it lasting? I think I need to do some research on this, sounds very interesting....


Gains are supposed to be permanent. You are teaching your brain a new skill, not just overwriting some garbage that is in there. That being said, I do know that trauma can erase some of the training (could be my case now) but it is usually brought back to normal after a few sessions.

My backwards progress is almost a figment of my imagination, I have bad avoidance behavior. When I do get myself into a situation that I would normally call a high anxiety situation, I have almost no anxiety at all. I have seen a few times where "normal" friends are more amped up than I am. I am pretty sure that if I can knock the avoidance out I will almost be back to 100%.


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## cyl0n4reelz

I_Dazed_I said:


> Good to know that someone is reading this lol. I wouldn't mind if nobody did though, someday someone will probably come across it and it could change their lives.


That could possibly be me! :clap Ive been reading your posts all night and researching neurotherapy and it just seems great, im so relieved to find that something like this exists because ive heard theres more cons than pros to taking drugs for SA, and your posts are giving me a really good in depth look to what this neurofeedback thing is all about. Thanks!!


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## Dandridge9

*Neurofeedback therapy Experience thus far*

Great Thread, thanks for sharing, I understand it can be hard but it is even therapeutic to realize that there are others out there with similar anxieties and issues. I am writing because I just completed my 2nd "neuro-feedback therapy" session that my Naturopath offers. Sessions with her are $120.00 each and I plan to ask my Physician if they can approve it for insurance but am highly doubtful as they are even skeptical of EMDR therapy my PH.D Clinical Psychologist has been giving me... but that is another issue and I digress...

1.) My first NF session seemed like nothing much was going on, just placed 3 electrodes (EEG electrodes) on the right part of my head. I was instructed to watch a computer screen which displayed patterns that would change and move (apparently along with my measured brainwaves in real-time). My naturopath explained that it was like the brain looking in the mirror and making adjustments to its neural pathways. She said it is a process that bypasses the conscious mind and so anxious thinking and the usual mind-chatter do not effect the process much. I left the session almost laughing and feeling a lot less paranoid about others and what they were thinking about me. I noticed a general feeling of calm in public, and almost started laughing at the cash register when ordering a coffee. The right side of my head and scalp felt glowing and warm for much of the rest of the day and things seemed brighter in terms of mood which was nice.

2.) My second session was today (this morning) and was much longer. Same process was set up and I watched some of the Planet Earth DVD and noticed the screen would grey out when clearing my throat (which I asked about and was told it was muscular signals being picked up), the screen also grew and shrank occasionally. The sensation of glowing definitely was more intense and started to spread to left side of my head which felt more "dense" then the right side. I noticed much more calm and less anxiety with making eye contact with people and with looking at people when walking around on the streets of town. I am looking forward to more sessions, but was told the usual number is about 20, making a grand total of about $2200.00, which if this really lasts is not that much considering how much people spend on pharmaceuticals and such. I am doing this at the same time I am having EMDR therapy, which also feels pretty powerful. I will update more later with further sessions.


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## Dandridge9

Dandridge9 said:


> Great Thread, thanks for sharing, I understand it can be hard but it is even therapeutic to realize that there are others out there with similar anxieties and issues. I am writing because I just completed my 2nd "neuro-feedback therapy" session that my Naturopath offers. Sessions with her are $120.00 each and I plan to ask my Physician if they can approve it for insurance but am highly doubtful as they are even skeptical of EMDR therapy my PH.D Clinical Psychologist has been giving me... but that is another issue and I digress...
> 
> 1.) My first NF session seemed like nothing much was going on, just placed 3 electrodes (EEG electrodes) on the right part of my head. I was instructed to watch a computer screen which displayed patterns that would change and move (apparently along with my measured brainwaves in real-time). My naturopath explained that it was like the brain looking in the mirror and making adjustments to its neural pathways. She said it is a process that bypasses the conscious mind and so anxious thinking and the usual mind-chatter do not effect the process much. I left the session almost laughing and feeling a lot less paranoid about others and what they were thinking about me. I noticed a general feeling of calm in public, and almost started laughing at the cash register when ordering a coffee. The right side of my head and scalp felt glowing and warm for much of the rest of the day and things seemed brighter in terms of mood which was nice.
> 
> 2.) My second session was today (this morning) and was much longer. Same process was set up and I watched some of the Planet Earth DVD and noticed the screen would grey out when clearing my throat (which I asked about and was told it was muscular signals being picked up), the screen also grew and shrank occasionally. The sensation of glowing definitely was more intense and started to spread to left side of my head which felt more "dense" then the right side. I noticed much more calm and less anxiety with making eye contact with people and with looking at people when walking around on the streets of town. I am looking forward to more sessions, but was told the usual number is about 20, making a grand total of about $2200.00, which if this really lasts is not that much considering how much people spend on pharmaceuticals and such. I am doing this at the same time I am having EMDR therapy, which also feels pretty powerful. I will update more later with further sessions.


Sorry, clearly its not helping me with my math abilities, the grand total would actually be $2400.00 for 20 sessions.


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## JohnMac

Contemplating started NFB at the moment and have been looking for online resources. Have enjoyed reading this thread so thank you very much for sharing. 

I see there is a neurofeedback site not long launched which I am hoping will grow and hence be able to hear more stories. It is neurofeedbackforum.com if anyone is interested.


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## BrianBouster

I found a new music based neurofeedback treatment on the web. It looks like a new product, looks like it is still under development, you can only sign up for it. On the bottom of the site it mentions using neurofeedback. And it seems to work via brainwave sensing electrodes to promote the right brainwaves that make you more relaxed. And also promises a learning effect if you do a daily session...

See www.myndojo.com

Has anyone ever seen anything like this before?


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