# If a guy is average looking/fat/ugly/skinny, he should aim for girls that are...?



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

Just like him? Agree or disagree?

I've been told before that I have too high expectations, and that I can't expect a supermodel. 

I am not that great to look at, so should I aim for girls that are not that great to look at, either?

This is a non-shallow question, please no flaming!


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I think one should try going for what THEY THINK THEY WANT and keep going for it until either you find that "type" or you fumble across someone your dazzled with who you didn't expect to fit that "type". It is amazing how you wouldn't expect that unexpected person to be someone you fall head over heals with. Girls do this all the time with men, it should tell you something. People aim for a target and while on the mission hit another target they didn't expect but just as good or even better. So aim for that target but be open as well.

^Probably the best advice I've given all month


----------



## kippan (Jun 4, 2011)

Vehemently disagree. 

He should try to aim for any girl he wants to. A genuine relationship does not work just on looks, dude. Besides good looks don't last and they're just a thing that someone happens upon because of "good" genes. 

There's all these dimensions to compatibility and chemistry it like a person's personality, taste in music, life ambitions, sense of humor, blah, blah, blah. Really if you like someone just go for it.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

What if a girl thinks I'm not good enough?

Should I try to convince her otherwise, or should I say "screw it", and aim for less attractive girls?


----------



## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

Disagree. If you're "aiming" for girls that are not terribly attractive to you simply because you think your chances are better, how honest is that to the girl? Always go for the girl you actually want.

Plus, it saves you the trouble of having to suddenly get rid of the 'safety girlfriend' when the stone-cold fox passes you her number and wants a date.


----------



## SuperSky (Feb 16, 2011)

Should aim for girls that he's attracted to for whatever reason he's attracted to them.

That said... *If a guy is *average looking/*fat*/ugly/skinny*, he should aim for girls that are... me *(except not now because I have a boyfriend)*.
*


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

bezoomny said:


> Disagree. If you're "aiming" for girls that are not terribly attractive to you simply because you think your chances are better, how honest is that to the girl? Always go for the girl you actually want.
> 
> Plus, it saves you the trouble of having to suddenly get rid of the 'safety girlfriend' when the stone-cold fox passes you her number and wants a date.


What she said.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

WintersTale said:


> What if a girl thinks I'm not good enough?
> 
> Should I try to convince her otherwise, or should I say "screw it", and aim for less attractive girls?


Always go for what you want because what is the point getting into something with someone you don't want to be with? Makes no sense and you'd rather be alone anyway. Even when I was super desperate I met girls I wasn't attracted to and some even wanted to be my grilfriend but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I realized I'd rather be alone.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

At this point, I'm getting desperate. 

I would date someone I wasn't attracted to, as long as she would hold me and tell me that I'm worthy of love.

Yes, I am that pathetic.


----------



## bezoomny (Feb 10, 2007)

WintersTale said:


> What if a girl thinks I'm not good enough?
> 
> Should I try to convince her otherwise, or should I say "screw it", and aim for less attractive girls?


If she doesn't think you're good enough, then it would be masochistic to continue seeing her. She'll probably drop you when she finds a guy she likes better. Cut your losses and leave the girl if she doesn't find you worthy enough to bask in her glowing radiance or whatever. Keep looking, if you want to date girls you're not attracted to that's your prerogative, but I'd strongly advise against it for the sake of the sanity of both parties involved.


----------



## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

If you are physically unattractive, it is harder to hook up with a good looking girl. But at the same time, it sucks settling for someone you are not physically attracted to. It's a lose/lose situation IMO.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

WintersTale said:


> At this point, I'm getting desperate.
> 
> I would date someone I wasn't attracted to, as long as she would hold me and tell me that I'm worthy of love.
> 
> Yes, I am that pathetic.


That's not pathetic. Maybe that is what you want? Everyone has different reasons for relationships. Sometimes you should go with what you want emotionally if it is more important to you than looks. Or maybe you need to experience what is like to date someone your not attracted to. Maybe you need to learn your lesson


----------



## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

I think people normally are attracted to others that are the same level of attractiveness as themselves. If you are big you prob will wind up with a big girl etc. It's just an observation.

There are obviously many exceptions too though.

You like who you like and can't help it sometimes. 

I've liked many different body types.


----------



## nmpennea (May 16, 2011)

SuperSky said:


> Should aim for girls that he's attracted to for whatever reason he's attracted to them.
> 
> *That said... **If a guy is average looking/**fat/ugly/skinny**, he should aim for girls that are... me *(except not now because I have a boyfriend)*.
> *


Me too!

And the looks too, aim for whoever. I have dated people that were not typically found attractive, but to me they were attractive.


----------



## Chris16 (Nov 1, 2010)

nmpennea said:


> Me too!
> 
> And the looks too, aim for whoever. *I have dated people that were not typically found attractive, but to me they were attractive.*


I often wonder if people who claim that they don't care about looks or claim that they have liked someone despite their looks _really_ meant what is in bold here. It's a huge difference. The concept of liking (romantically) someone you're not physically attracted to just seems impossible to me, and if anyone can gauge the truth of my suspicion please do...


----------



## Fantas Eyes (Mar 23, 2011)

I read somewhere that girls are attracted to guys that have a similar body shape, which has held true for most of the guys i've liked.


----------



## nmpennea (May 16, 2011)

Chris16 said:


> I often wonder if people who claim that they don't care about looks or claim that they have liked someone despite their looks _really_ meant what is in bold here. It's a huge difference. The concept of liking (romantically) someone you're not physically attracted to just seems impossible to me, and if anyone can gauge the truth of my suspicion please do...


Well I found them physically attractive, but a lot of people surrounding me did not. Which is why I said typically wouldn't be found attractive.
But to me they were attractive. Which is what I was trying to say. I am sorry if it didn't come across that way.


----------



## JamieHasAnxiety (Feb 15, 2011)

I seen guys, well, very unfortunate with gf's so Freakin hot & vise versa!
I'm guessing its under first impressions too, and confidence maybe?

Luck? I dunno..

Whatever it is, its possible alright.


----------



## Chris16 (Nov 1, 2010)

nmpennea said:


> Well I found them physically attractive, but a lot of people surrounding me did not. Which is why I said typically wouldn't be found attractive.
> But to me they were attractive. Which is what I was trying to say. I am sorry if it didn't come across that way.


I understand what you were saying perfectly. I was wondering if _other_ people held the same position as you did but expressed it in a less accurate way.

I just wonder if girls on here get so used to defending themselves against accusations that they only want model-faced guys with six packs that they say something like "I like guys even if they don't look good" when they really mean "I've been attracted to guys who weren't the superman you described."

The first one seems to imply love without attraction (*head explodes*), and as impossible as that sounds to me it seems like girls claim it happens to them. Is that true, or are they just using the wrong words?


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

What's wrong with being skinny?


----------



## nmpennea (May 16, 2011)

Chris16 said:


> I understand what you were saying perfectly. I was wondering if _other_ people held the same position as you did but expressed it in a less accurate way.
> 
> I just wonder if girls on here get so used to defending themselves against accusations that they only want model-faced guys with six packs that they say something like "I like guys even if they don't look good" when they really mean "I've been attracted to guys who weren't the superman you described."
> 
> The first one seems to imply love without attraction (*head explodes*), and as impossible as that sounds to me it seems like girls claim it happens to them. Is that true, or are they just using the wrong words?


Oh, I am sorry, I misunderstood.There is a lot of defending that happens here. I think it is more often then not it is the "I've been attracted to guys who weren't the superman you described". 
I also think even if you may not start out attracted to a person, you can find them attractive when you start to care about them. Though when that has happened to me I was friends with the person first and then started to become physically attracted to them.

And it probably does happen that people fall in love without physical attraction. I don't think I could, but I am sure it happens sometimes.


----------



## SuperSky (Feb 16, 2011)

Chris16 said:


> I often wonder if people who claim that they don't care about looks or claim that they have liked someone despite their looks _really_ meant what is in bold here. It's a huge difference. The concept of liking (romantically) someone you're not physically attracted to just seems impossible to me, and if anyone can gauge the truth of my suspicion please do...


I believe that's what they mean. That other people generally wouldn't think the person was attractive, but that they do.



nmpennea said:


> I also think even if you may not start out attracted to a person, you can find them attractive when you start to care about them. Though when that has happened to me I was friends with the person first and then started to become physically attracted to them.


Same here.

The only two guys I've ever had serious crushes on... On seeing them the first time, I didn't find them all that attractive. Not that they were hideous or anything, but I didn't really think anything of it. After spending more and more time around them as friends, I started liking them and started growing physically attracted to them, until I eventually liked them a lot and found them super hot. Then, because of my feelings for them, people who physically reminded me of the crushes were immediately attractive to me as well. 
Most other people who haven't gone through the "transformation due-to-feelings" simply don't find my current preferences attractive in the least. But I do, so that's just how things are.


----------



## panda (Oct 26, 2008)

I think he should aim for whoever he likes, and work on the aspects of himself that he's insecure about.


----------



## BetaBoy90 (Jan 5, 2010)

Too much thinking not enough doing. Tbh, once you personally get to know girls without deciding beforehand if you'll marry them or not you'll have a much better indicator of who you feel is right for you, and looks won't play as big a role as they do when you sit in spectator mode and think of every little possibility of how things will or won't work. If you really feel the connection there is a chance she also feels similar, and I'm thinking you probably won't be attracted to someone who is extremely shallow, so looks going both ways won't mean as much, no matter who is objectively more "attractive".

Not trying to personally attack you in any way, just thinking possibly the way I've phrased it currently will be clear and concise.


----------



## fingertips (Jan 11, 2009)

MavenMI6Agent009 said:


> I hate it when the girls you want cant get and the ones you dont want go after you. I hate that chit.


have you ever thought that maybe the ones you want don't want _you_ going after _them_? rather than them being "unattainable"?


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

fingertips said:


> have you ever thought that maybe the ones you want don't want _you_ going after _them_? rather than them being "unattainable"?


That's kind of my point. That they're out of my reach, so I shouldn't even aim for them, since they wouldn't want me to, anyway.


----------



## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

WintersTale said:


> That's kind of my point. That they're out of my reach, so I shouldn't even aim for them, since they wouldn't want me to, anyway.


Are you sure?

Like have you tried?

Bc maybe it's true, or maybe you're just feeling self-concious or something and they want you to approach them bc they are diggin' ya too


----------



## PaFfanatic (Oct 18, 2010)

WintersTale said:


> That's kind of my point. That they're out of my reach, so I shouldn't even aim for them, since they wouldn't want me to, anyway.


Story of my life. Boys just laugh at/make fun of me when they find out I like them. I constantly make the mistake of aiming for boys who I *know* I can't have, and then I end up getting heartbroken because I know we'll never be together. It's one of my major downfalls :sigh


----------



## Freiheit (Dec 8, 2008)

SuperSky said:


> I believe that's what they mean. That other people generally wouldn't think the person was attractive, but that they do.
> 
> Same here.
> 
> ...


^I can totally relate to this, had that happen before.

As to the OP, I don't think you should settle for someone you're not attracted to because that would make the relationship kind of fake and unfair to the other person. Even if it doesn't work out with one girl you're attracted to, doesn't mean you can't find another one and automatically have to lower your standards, though having way too high standards can make it harder, so be reasonable.


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

kathy903 said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Like have you tried?
> 
> Bc maybe it's true, or maybe you're just feeling self-concious or something and they want you to approach them bc they are diggin' ya too


Well, I was approached when I was 4 years younger and much thinner.

I suppose I had youth and being skinny on my side then. Women in general don't like fat men.


----------



## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

I knew a girl from where I used to work. She was 22 I think. She had dated and been in a serious relationship with a short guy for years. Her personality was very very sociable and friendly and open and she was very pretty I thought and in good shape. Well, the short guy she was dating ended up moving for work and so it led to them breaking it off. Meanwhile, there was this other guy who was overweight and 28 years old that was her friend and started hanging out with her more and before you know it they are in a serious relationship and come to find out she quit her job because she became pregnant with him!

I also remember one guy who I thought was hansom come in the store while she was working and gave her his phone number out the blue. He looked like a model and rode a crotch rocket and had a leather sports jacket on. I remember her saying something about it and she said why did he approach me and I said her aura because she really did have an amazing aura I thought but she was also pretty but I didn't tell her that.

I saw her one time at the bars and she was dressed stellar. I thought she was real pretty, but she was with that heavier set guy I saw her hang out with before. Don't ever count yourself out. They were dating and now they are engaged or something with a baby! I remember texting her one night when I found out her and her ex broke up, I wanted to see if she wanted to hang out but she said she was going over to her boyfriends house to eat diner that night (the heavier set guy).


----------



## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I guess I just need to have a happier and healthier mindset.


----------



## lanzman (Jun 14, 2004)

= < him


----------



## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

I'm uber skinny and absolutely love girls with the same body type.

Unfortunately, much as with shyness, I can't have what I want because it's an attribute that's seen as desirable in females but emasculating and undesirable in males.


----------



## reno316 (Jun 13, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> You're apparently not great to look at so you should go for girls that you think are also not great to look at?
> 
> I love that as a pick up line: "hey, I'm not great to look at and I noticed you over here and you're not great to look at either. Want to get something to eat?"
> 
> ...


So because Kate Moss dated a druggie, any guy that looks like a crackhead can date a famous super model? Beauty is subjective to a point. Just because you point out an exception doesn't make it the norm.


----------



## Jessie203 (Feb 20, 2008)

WintersTale said:


> Well, I was approached when I was 4 years younger and much thinner.
> 
> I suppose I had youth and being skinny on my side then. Women in general don't like fat men.


First off yeah in general they don't but idk fat is a relative term it depends we all consider different limits.. society doesn't like fat girls either.. I've had a BMI of 30 or so, and a BMI of 20.. definitely notice how I was treated different it's sort of sad in a way since I wasn;t even that overweight lol but whatever that's people for ya. 
I've dated what some people may call a fat man. He definitely would have an overweight BMI. I've also dated guys who are jacked and guys who are scrawny and me with my curves I looked sort of "Fat" in my mind beside them lol but it didn't really matter. It's not the focus when you care about someone. Honestly one guy wasn't better than the other to me bc when you're in love it's how you behave to one another and after brekaing up with all of them I remember the ones who treated me better as the sexier ones.. the jacked guy was a total ******* and his body means nothing to me.. in fact he was sort of vain. One night stands people may be superficial but when people are dating for a reason, other than concern about health and weight, it's not too big a deal.. obviously there are lmits for attraction though. If I had a bf who was overweight plummet to like 400 lbs the sex life would def drop.. and I'd resent him for basically slowly killing himself and not caring about my attraction.. but in many ways that has to do with emotions vs. the physical.. the physical is the problem causer but the real problems are the betrayal, lack of respect for self and the gf, not being reliable for the future - 400lbs you won't live to old age likely.. it really isn't superficial with me I can tell you that and I know you are nice, despite you pissing me off odd time lol and me you, and there are girls who would love for you to ask them out.


----------



## Surrender (Jul 19, 2010)

don't waste your time on people you're not attacted to in a romantic sense. you'll only break their heart.


----------



## PaFfanatic (Oct 18, 2010)

joinmartin said:


> Nah. If you made a mistake at all it was having romantic feelings for boys who, by the sounds of things, are complete tits. What kind of person, whether they are interested back or not, makes fun of someone for liking them?
> 
> If someone likes me and I'm not interested back, I don't make fun of that person for liking me. I'm really flattered and, if honest, a little shocked if someone does like me that way but, if I'm not interested, I let them know in a respectful way because they remain a human being whether I'm attracted to them or not.
> 
> Seriously, you're not setting your standards too high. You're setting them way too low. These idiots who make fun of you don't deserve you liking them in the first place. Give the gift of finding someone attractive to someone who is actually a man instead.


Wow, thank you! I believe you're right; I have yet to find a guy my age who's not a total tool... I know there are nice guys out there, I just haven't found one who I could see being in a relationship with yet... Thank you so much for the response! :hug


----------



## bobthebuilder (Jun 17, 2009)

joinmartin said:


> Beauty is fundamentally subjective. The beholder wins it. Attraction also.
> 
> You speak of "norms". What norms are these? I point out counter evidence to things and, because it goes against a dominant, negative belief system that some people have here and elsewhere, it's dismissed as an exception when, in reality, it's something called "evidence". Just because it is evidence in support of a counter viewpoint doesn't make it any kind of exception to any kind of norm.


People have, on occasion, won the lottery. Its not the 'norm', but it happens, so should i bank my retirement on the lottery? Should I spend as much money and time on gambling in general, expecting to be just another person who won the lottery? Sure, there is a chance the money i spent on my car could have been used on the lotto and made me rich, but its far more likely that I will make money if I use that money on a reliable car to get me to work. The same translates to most of life- Yea kate moss dated a druggy, and generally not being a druggy makes you a more ideal partner, so being ahead in that regard means I have a chance of dating a celebrity. Does that mean I should set my sights on celebrities, and only celebrities, because hey if one guy can do it, so can I? No it wouldnt really be wise. I have a far better chance by looking locally, and looking for girls in my league.

Not intending to argue with you or disprove your point, I just cant change my belief without substantial evidence. Like my gambling example, just because some people succeed at it, doesnt mean it is a wise career path, and the time and money spent on it could be used in ways that are far more likely to generate income. Chasing after supermodels may prove to be an endless chase.


----------



## VIncymon (Apr 16, 2009)

Aim for what you need. You can only be happy with what you need.
Do not let anybody tell you that some girl is outta your league.

In the same way, do not let anyone tell you that the girl you are going after is ugly.
(if have lost some opportunities because of what *other guys* said about girls i have had interest in)

The only thing that matters is how the woman looks to you !

If you find her attractive go for it. If after speaking to her, her persona is just as attractive. CONTINUE !


----------



## Tu Cielo (Jun 5, 2011)

Don't ever settle for someone. It's not fair to you or the person you're settling for. A relationship can't work if there is no mutual attraction. If you like someone, go for it. But if they don't show any interest in you, don't waste your time trying to get them to like you. As everyone always says "There are plenty of fish in the sea" even if it doesn't feel like it.


----------



## Zima (Jul 6, 2011)

WintersTale said:


> Just like him? Agree or disagree?
> 
> I've been told before that I have too high expectations, and that I can't expect a supermodel.
> 
> ...


http://hotchickswithdouchebags.com/

:yes


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

PaFfanatic said:


> I know there are nice guys out there, I just haven't found one who I could see being in a relationship with yet...


Here's your problem. Nice guys aren't dating material to you.


----------



## uffie (May 11, 2010)

I saw this one study on tv where the people in the group rated each other on a 1-10 scale. Nobody knew each others ratings. After that, they were asked to pair up with each other based on what they think they are capable of getting. They all paired up with numbers very close to each other. I think in most cases attractive people end up with similarly attractive people.


----------



## Zima (Jul 6, 2011)

TPower said:


> Here's your problem. Nice guys aren't dating material to you.


Because they act weak, fearful, and submissive, and such behaviors are naturally unattractive to girls?

Some girls do have a screwed up attraction to people that mistreat them, but in most cases, the guys who are "nice" simply don't display their attractive qualities.

You can be nice and still be dominant and confident, but it's much easier if you're a douchebag and don't care what anyone thinks/don't have enough brainpower to consider what people think


----------



## Zima (Jul 6, 2011)

uffie said:


> I saw this one study on tv where the people in the group rated each other on a 1-10 scale. Nobody knew each others ratings. After that, they were asked to pair up with each other based on what they think they are capable of getting. They all paired up with numbers very close to each other. I think in most cases attractive people end up with similarly attractive people.


I saw that too!! Was a very interesting study. I think it does work like that to "some" extent, but in real life we go by a LOT more than just looks.


----------



## Atticus (Nov 10, 2003)

This may not apply to you at all, winterstale, but I'll mention it because I've known a few guys it applies to, and well maybe???

If you have a very specific type of woman you're physically attracted to, to the exclution of all other women, then that answers your question. If you're most attracted to one physical type, but also attracted to other physical types who may be more likely to be attracted to you, then you have the choice that bobthebuilder described.

The thing I'd caution against is holding out for someone extremely good looking because you think it would validate you. If you look past women you might otherwise find attractive because the most attractive women being with you would mean you could see yourself as more attractive, I think you're heading for disaster.

I'm not saying you're doing this and nothing you've ever posted leads me to believe this, but I think it's worth a mention.


----------



## Xeros (Oct 19, 2006)

I think I'm average to below average (that's me in my avatar) and I go and have gone out with girls who I find amazingly attractive/hot. The thing with that though is that my definition of gorgeous may not be everyone else's. 

-Like I find Ellen Page hotter than Megan Fox or Olivia Wilde.
-Emma Stone hotter than Giselle.

-And the hottest girls to me are redheads with pale/freckled skin. A girl who I just got the phone number of is a short girl who's a little chubby, but she is a natural redhead and has the cutest freckles on her nose. She's literally the most stunning girl I've ever seen. When I first saw her my jaw dropped and I couldn't stop staring. I asked some of my friends about her and they said she wasn't ugly, but they didn't think she was that pretty either.

I'm guessing everyone is like this. Which is good because if everyone had the same definition of hot there would be a lot more lonely people out there. I remember thinking the girl had vision issues the first time I was told she found me attractive lol.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Zima said:


> Because they act weak, fearful, and submissive, and such behaviors are naturally unattractive to girls?
> 
> Some girls do have a screwed up attraction to people that mistreat them, but in most cases, the guys who are "nice" simply don't display their attractive qualities.
> 
> You can be nice and still be dominant and confident, but it's much easier if you're a douchebag and don't care what anyone thinks/don't have enough brainpower to consider what people think


Douchebags who are alcoholics or drug addicts are most likely people who DO actually care about what others think.

What women don't like about the so-called nice guys, is their "I'm desperate" image.


----------



## InThe519 (Sep 21, 2009)

WintersTale said:


> What if a girl thinks I'm not good enough?
> 
> Should I try to convince her otherwise, or should I say "screw it", and aim for less attractive girls?


If a girl doesn't think you are good enough for her, odds are you are TOO good for her.

That being said, you have to realize that while heart, personality and emotional connection is the most important part of a relationship, physical attraction is very important. That being said, confidence is what really makes a women wet. You could be average looking, but if you carry yourself like a stud, women will notice. However, if you are meek, don't make eye contact and have do "convince her otherwise" perhaps taking a step aside to polish up yourself with more confidence would be the first priority.

It's funny, I've dated and climbed on the spectrum of women. The women with the best hearts, were the best in bed and I had the greatest overall connection to were girls of average everything. Don't make a relationship about all physical, because they run out and if you have nothing else, you will have nothing overall.


----------



## CopadoMexicano (Aug 21, 2004)

TPower said:


> What women don't like about the so-called nice guys, is their "I'm desperate" image.


 Thats healthy.


----------



## PaFfanatic (Oct 18, 2010)

TPower said:


> Here's your problem. Nice guys aren't dating material to you.


Not necessarily. I would *love* to date a nice guy, but it usually happens that:


I never see them again; I meet them once and that's it.
They're in a relationship already (this was the case recently - I added him on Facebook and the very first post on his Wall was from his GF :doh)
Or sometimes our personalities just don't plain click. I met this guy last year, really nice guy... But he had, well.... You could tell he really had no idea about how to talk to girls, and it was just kind of awkward... I felt bad for the kid. I did find out later that he had a couple creepy tendencies, so I'm glad we didn't go anywhere. That actually happens a lot, I perceive a guy as being a nice guy, but I find out later he's a creeper 
 tl;dr version: All ranting aside, things just haven't worked out. Maybe I'm being too picky...



Zima said:


> Because they act weak, fearful, and submissive, and such behaviors are naturally unattractive to girls?
> 
> Some girls do have a screwed up attraction to people that mistreat them, but in most cases, the guys who are "nice" simply don't display their attractive qualities.
> 
> You can be nice and still be dominant and confident, but it's much easier if you're a douchebag and don't care what anyone thinks/don't have enough brainpower to consider what people think


Bingo. I have met, confident, dominant guys, but they're _almost_ always douchebags (I don't want to make a generalization because I *know *that's not always the case)


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

PaFfanatic said:


> Or sometimes our personalities just don't plain click. I met this guy last year, really nice guy... But he had, well.... You could tell he really had no idea about how to talk to girls, and it was just kind of awkward... I felt bad for the kid. I did find out later that he had a couple creepy tendencies, so I'm glad we didn't go anywhere. That actually happens a lot, I perceive a guy as being a nice guy, but I find out later he's a creeper


Any chance you could've just helped him? They say society puts a lot of pressure on women to be attractive, but it also puts a lot of pressure on men.

Who have to make the first move. 
Who have to be the leader. 
Who must be strong.
Who cannot, at any time, look, or act weak.


----------



## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

PaFfanatic said:


> Or sometimes our personalities just don't plain click. I met this guy last year, really nice guy... But he had, well.... *You could tell he really had no idea about how to talk to girls, and it was just kind of awkward*... I felt bad for the kid. I did find out later that he had a couple creepy tendencies, so I'm glad we didn't go anywhere. That actually happens a lot, I perceive a guy as being a nice guy, but I find out later he's a creeper  tl;dr version: All ranting aside, things just haven't worked out. Maybe I'm being too picky...


And by "how to talk to girls," what do you mean?

The implication seems to be that merely talking as he would to a friend isn't enough; that you seek some sort of charm, or swagger, or whatever you'd like to call it. Which brings me to...



> Bingo. I have met, confident, dominant guys, but they're _almost_ always douchebags


Hey, at least you've got that figured out. Puts you ahead of the curve.


----------



## TPower (Feb 3, 2011)

Confidence and arrogance are far from the same thing.


----------



## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

TPower said:


> What women don't like about the so-called nice guys, is their "I'm desperate" image.


that and being viewed as boring.... I think girls like having fun, excitement and being emotional, but the stereotypical nice guy doesn't provide this.


----------



## PaFfanatic (Oct 18, 2010)

anomalous said:


> And by "how to talk to girls," what do you mean?
> 
> The implication seems to be that merely talking as he would to a friend isn't enough; that you seek some sort of charm, or swagger, or whatever you'd like to call it.


By "how to talk to girls", I mean... Well, I'd better put it into context, it makes more sense. He asked me to go to a dance with him, and I accepted without really thinking it over (which was a mistake in hindsight, we had only met weeks before and we really didn't know each other too well. But I was just happy I got asked). He had no trouble talking to me about planning and the like (where we would meet before, what time we'd leave, etc.), but at the actual dance, things were awkward. He just kind of followed me around like a lost puppy the entire time, didn't say a word, didn't ask me to dance, nothing. I was the one who had to take the lead, ask if he wanted a drink, introduce him to my friends, etc.

This whole experience was contrary to the previous year, when I went to a social event with a guy friend of mine, and even though we were just friends, people thought we were a couple because of how nice and chivalrous he treated me. He always had his arm around me, never left my side (but in a good way!) he danced with me, and he easily blended in with my group of friends, even though he had just met them. It was one of the best nights of my life. Shame we drifted apart after that night :sigh

So in the other guy's defense, I did have a bit of an expectation about how he would treat me.



TPower said:


> Any chance you could've just helped him? They say society puts a lot of pressure on women to be attractive, but it also puts a lot of pressure on men.
> 
> Who have to make the first move.
> Who have to be the leader.
> ...


I tried. We attended a dance together, and like I wrote earlier in the post, I was the one introducing him to people, asking him if he wanted a drink, etc. He didn't seem very receptive to me or taking some initiative, so I just kind of... well, gave up. In hindsight, I really could have helped him more, but actually, he did find a new group of friends later that year, and I think they helped him a ton. They actually got him a date with another girl as well.


----------



## BetaBoy90 (Jan 5, 2010)

If a guy is average he's ****ed. If all things were equal his dating pull would be reduced to about 90-95% of the population, which surely isn't enough people to satisfy his relationship needs.


----------



## tropic (May 28, 2011)

No one should tell you what 'kind' of girls you should go for. You should aim for any girl you feel attracted too, imo.  Sure you won't just be attracted to b*tchy supermodels who prefer looks over substance?


----------



## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

PaFfanatic said:


> By "how to talk to girls", I mean... Well, I'd better put it into context, it makes more sense. He asked me to go to a dance with him, and I accepted without really thinking it over (which was a mistake in hindsight, we had only met weeks before and we really didn't know each other too well. But I was just happy I got asked). *He had no trouble talking to me about planning and the like (where we would meet before, what time we'd leave, etc.), but at the actual dance, things were awkward. He just kind of followed me around like a lost puppy the entire time, didn't say a word, didn't ask me to dance, nothing.* I was the one who had to take the lead, ask if he wanted a drink, introduce him to my friends, etc.
> 
> This whole experience was contrary to the previous year, when I went to a social event with a guy friend of mine, and even though we were just friends, *people thought we were a couple* because of how nice and chivalrous he treated me. He always had his arm around me, never left my side (but in a good way!) he danced with me, and *he easily blended in with my group of friends, even though he had just met them.* It was one of the best nights of my life. Shame we drifted apart after that night :sigh


So, when it comes down to it, it sounds like you find SA traits in a prospective partner to be offputting. Because the above can essentially be summed up in one sentence: "Guy A exhibited SA and was socially nervous; Guy B was sauve and didn't exhibit SA."

You yourself have SA, but are unhappy when the guy you're with doesn't impress people socially.

Hey, I'm not judging you. We all have our preferences, and there's not much we can do about them. It's just ****ing depressing how many shy girls can't overlook _the same damn flaws they have themselves_ when it comes to guys.

I just hope all the gals take note of posts like this when arguing so passionately that guys don't have things harder. :lol


----------



## heroin (Dec 10, 2010)

I take what I can get, tbh.


----------



## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

No idea.

I like people based on personality. If I like their personality, they become attractive to me. It makes everything so much simpler.


----------

