# why are only sketchy guys attracted to me?



## Eilicea (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't see how this can be. I haven't got any prospects for a boyfriend at all, but all these creepy guys (both people I know and total strangers) seem to want me. srsly, just today some random guy (about my age) in the train station kept waving at me. It's like, I'm not that good looking to be attracting this sort of attention. And I don't dress provocatively at all; today I was wearing an old T-shirt (slightly too large), jeans, Docs, and little to no makeup, and that's pretty much what I wear every day. There have only been two guys who I know who have admitted to/obviously had an attraction for me, and both of them have been sketchy. It's like, WTF? What do I do about this?

(and yes this counts as a "secondary disorder" :lol )


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

If you were a guy you would be ten years older and still have no girls liking you. It's part of being female to have creepy guys liking you.

If I were you I'd ignore it.

I'm sure that if I liked you, you would find me sketchy and creepy but when you get to know me I'm an ordinary boring guy.

The thing about being a girl is that you can wait. It might take another ten years, but one day your Prince will come and take you. To his castle.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

vicente said:


> It's part of being female to have creepy guys liking you.


Truth. It's not always pleasant, but it's pretty inevitable.

I have a special vibe for transit creepers. They all find me sooner or later.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

well.. i don't think they are just creepy for getting your attention.

but yeah, i tend to attract the wrong type. not that all the guys are really creepy/sketchy, just nothing close to the type of guy i'd get along with. but then again that kind of guy is incredibly rare..


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## Slothrop (Aug 11, 2007)

Perfectionist said:


> vicente said:
> 
> 
> > It's part of being female to have creepy guys liking you.
> ...


What is it with these transit creeps? A number of them have approached my girlfriend and insist on staring and making small-talk before scurrying off.


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## Lisa (Jul 8, 2006)

Eilicea, what makes them sketchy?


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## smalltowngirl (Feb 17, 2006)

...


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

well, you are way past legal age so i don't think it's that creepy if older guys hit on you.
i think it's a bit creepy for me when older guys hit on me since i apparently look 13 or 16/17.. but the way i dress makes me look older, i don't know.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

Slothrop said:


> What is it with these transit creeps? A number of them have approached my girlfriend and insist on staring and making small-talk before scurrying off.


I think it's the whole idea that the girl is just sitting / standing there. She's not eating in a restaurant, drinking in a bar, walking briskly past on her cell phone she's just static generally with nothing to do. It's a girl, with nothing to do but wait around. If she's alone there's just no reason for the them _not_ to approach her and make small talk. Or in my case, pet my arm / ask me if I'd like to go to their mothers house / offer me their articles of clothing / ask if they can see my bra.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Just ignore it. The end.


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## Drella (Dec 4, 2004)

I guess it would feel awkward to have someone giving you that sort of attention, but wouldn't it also feel good? Like the guy who waved at you, to me, he doesn't seem like he was doing anything overtly sketchy. Ah, what do I know? I could lie naked in the middle of a prison and still not attract any men.


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## Mr. Orange (Apr 20, 2008)

Alright, can you first define "sketchy"? Is it the fact that these guys are less than average looking, and come up to you in a nervous manner, and try to converse with you, but don't come across too confident?

Do you know how tough it is for guys to go up to a girl they consider pretty? Even guys without SA its very tough. And maybe the guy you consider goofy looking or ugly or whatever that comes up to you and has interest in you is a good guy, who is trying to meet a girl he finds attractive...what makes him sketchy then? He didn't choose his body, so you are being judgmental by just writing him off as a creep. Let's say Brad Pitt came up to you...would he be sketchy as well...I doubt you would see it this way. Think of it from their perspective. If you aren't interested, it doesn't make the guy sketchy. You don't have to like the guy, but to write him off as a creep is pretty shallow.

If the guy is a jerk, and thats what your talking about, like the people Perfectionist was describing, then I can hear you fully...and I apologize. But if you mean otherwise, then think again.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

:ditto 

Just a shout out that that was a very good post. 

I can't imagine the guts it takes for a guy to approach a girl, especially just out of the blue. Most have good intentions and just want to make some sort of connection, and it can certainly be a positive experience for both people. 

I still stand by my label of creeper to guys that touch me or follow me or my personal favorite, literally corner me in a bus shelter. Most girls have had at least one experience like that and it is sincerely unpleasant. I'm assuming that's what the OP was about. But I definitely agree that with the exception of those overly aggressive people, guys who approach girls in a polite way shouldn't be labeled as a creeper just because it was spontaneous and unexpected, or at an unusual location. Well said.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

^do you seriously constantly do those last things?

i don't always go out of my way to sit far from guys unless it's late at night. i'm fine with noticing when a guy is staring at me and moving if it's making me uncomfortable.

i'm also ALWAYS listening to music and wearing headphones but i still get guys who start talking to me. :/ 
it is a good way to ignore them though. when i'm approached and if the guy seems rude or creepy (of course, not ALL guys are) i just say "sorry, i don't want to talk right now" and put my headphones back on.

also i think it's a bit presumptions so assume that all guys who approach women on the subway are sketchy. like suddenly entering that enclosed public space turns them instantly into creeps. some are not. i'm sure some are polite and respectful. guys here have said they've asked out girls on the bus or subway, that doesn't automatically make them a creep.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

blossom said:


> People do not get up and wander over to others on a plane or wave and play creepy games like that because they are strapped in and have a seat assigned, and need to be in the seat. You can meet interesting people on planes and buses, but not trains or subways usually, not of the opposite sex. It's different on a subway.
> 
> It's the bathroom of the house of transportation options. On another note, you don't think that a bathroom is a good place to make friends do you? You go to a public bathroom because you need to be there, not for social reasons. That is the same with the subway.


i actually quite like riding the subway. does that mean i like being in bathrooms? by your logic apparently it does.

you can meet creepy guys anywhere - 1st class on a plane even (??), they just tend to be disguised better if they are wearing a suit with a clean haircut and appear to have money.
i'm not saying you think that btw - i just tend to notice women associate creepiness with unattractiveness.

that still doesn't make sense to me - how does someone suddenly because uninteresting when they are on the subway? yet planes and buses are okay?
just seems like a silly assumption to make. my friends and i are on subways all the time, sometimes i see them talk to people and they are clearly not creepy just because they are on the subway. it even seems like you are making judgements of a certain social class if you are saying that all guys in subways are creepy while those in planes are safe.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

well, i am very sorry to hear that. i know it's just better to be safe than sorry in those situations. i'm just pointing out that i don't think all guys are creepy - although, because of your experience, i can see why you would believe that.


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## Slothrop (Aug 11, 2007)

blossom said:


> You can meet interesting people on planes and buses, but not trains or subways usually, not of the opposite sex. It's different on a subway.
> 
> It's the bathroom of the house of transportation options. On another note, you don't think that a bathroom is a good place to make friends do you? You go to a public bathroom because you need to be there, not for social reasons. That is the same with the subway.


What's with this subway hate? I'd much rather us it than a plane or bus, tram, streetcar, etc. The subway is my favourite mode of transit.


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## **ibleedblueblood** (Aug 4, 2008)

I don't think Blossom was implying that ALL guys were creeps.


As somebody who was also raped years ago, I can relate. 


I don't like being approached or spoken to by random people for no reason when I'm simply minding my own business.


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## Slothrop (Aug 11, 2007)

Out of curiosity, blossom, which subways have you been riding? Toronto's is rather safe, much safer than any other I've been on (Rome, NYC, Milan, Paris (due to volume)). The worst I ever see are winos or drunken kids after a night of partying.


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

blossom said:


> It's possible that you like to loosen up and when you do you feel relaxed and you feel safe, but you haven't done anything to make yourself truly safe and you know this at some level. And if you actually had to think through what you needed to do to protect yourself if you were in a bad area or bad situation that would occur anywhere it makes you scared to think of it at all, to think of the problems, as what I wrote, so you rather not think of it at all. You could be all or nothing. That's one reason why people do not want to learn basic marital arts, because its proven that they actually get more scared when they first have to consider all the things of what may happen and they rather put it out of their mind completely. And they start dissing it right off. Only if they stay with it, can they get over the fear of considering what may happen to them and how to deal with it calmly and rationally will they not be hostile.
> 
> All I am saying is that when you are alone, which means WITHOUT YOUR FRIENDS, of which you mentioned which is not at all the situation I responded to nor described, are lucky to travel with them of which it takes away all fear, you should take a few steps to guard yourself. Basically I gave a bunch of options that can be applied as you need them in areas that you feel you are weak in.


actually i'm almost always alone when i take public transit, been doing that since i was 13.
i can definitely understand panicking when doing that alone, though. i used to, but i'm much better now, and i've learned to calm myself down if i'm panicking when i'm in an unfamiliar place. i went to a city i had never been to recently, alone, and took the transit system and i was fine about it.. i was actually proud of myself for that.

i didn't mean to attack you or any of your points - i agree that it's very good to be aware of any bad signs around you and to be prepared. i was just saying that i disagree that not all guys are creepy (although, i know you didn't mean it that way). i do think of bad things that can happen, and i know how i would react in those situations.

and like slothrop said the transit system in toronto is pretty safe, so it might be completely different where you are.


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## Eilicea (Jun 15, 2008)

Lisa said:


> Eilicea, what makes them sketchy?


Well the sketchy guys I was talking about were either creepy guys on the subway/in the street, one of my friends who admitted to having a crush on me when I was in 9th grade and he was in 12th, and two guys who I worked with who were 20/22 when I was 15/16.

One of my friends told me I should change my name to "Lolita." :sigh

edit: And what makes this so weird is that I don't attract _any_ attention at all from guys my own age! (okay well maybe one guy but he's kind of stalkerish/will go out with any girl who talks to him for five consecutive seconds)


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with a guy trying to "pick up" a girl, flirt, or make small talk in a public transit situation (or any typical crowded public place) as long as he doesn't overstep his boundaries. The notion that all guys should flat out refrain from the practice is absolutely ridiculous.



blossom said:


> I can tell you that it only leads to trouble. All they want is your phone number or a date.


Well of course they do. That's how it works. How is a guy supposed to get to know a girl further if he has no way of contacting her after they part ways?



Eilicea said:


> one of my friends who admitted to having a crush on me when I was in 9th grade and he was in 12th


What's wrong with that?


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## nothing to fear (Mar 23, 2005)

^i don't think it's too weird either. a few couples i'm friends with have that age gap and it's not strange or creepy at all.


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## Eilicea (Jun 15, 2008)

Just Lurking said:


> Eilicea said:
> 
> 
> > one of my friends who admitted to having a crush on me when I was in 9th grade and he was in 12th
> ...


haha what _isn't_ wrong with that? Especially because I looked/acted at least a year younger than my age back then. I mean it might not be a problem if the girl was really attractive, but...yeah....


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Just Lurking said:


> blossom said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that it only leads to trouble. All they want is your phone number or a date.
> ...


Another thing that comes to mind about this. Remember that guys are not wired the same way as girls are.

A guy lays eyes on a girl, and he knows IMMEDIATELY whether or not he's interested in her. He's decided that he wants your number before he even opens his mouth to talk to you. So guy approaches girl and starts chatting with her. While the girl has just BEGUN trying to figure out the guy, HE is already thinking "give me your number", "gotta get her number", "must get number". His mind is already made up.

So, when a guy says "Hi what's your name?" and follows it up with a quick "Oh that's nice. Can I have your number?" ... that does not necessarily make him a creep, or even sketchy. He's just clueless about courtship.


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## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Eilicea said:


> Just Lurking said:
> 
> 
> > Eilicea said:
> ...


You're obviously not interested in guys who are even three years older than you? That's a matter of personal taste, but I fail to see what's "wrong" with such an age difference.

My mother and father are among those who've dated at that age with the same age difference. I'd imagine it's fairly common.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

blossom said:


> **ibleedblueblood** said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Blossom was implying that ALL guys were creeps.
> ...


Being bothered is certainly no fun, by the very definition of "bothered." My closest female friend has had numerous experiences that were extremely positive though that would fall into the realm you personally consider to be creepy though. Hasty generalizations easily fall apart when looked at closely.

Having a nightmarish experience such as rape doesn't make these universal statements (bolded for emphasis) accurate though. Assuming a guy is creepy until proven otherwise is certainly useful if you're trying to protect yourself, but that doesn't mean that the fear represents the true proportion of creepy stalkers/rapists vs. the population of males. I think what you advocate is an excessive form of insurance that is emotionally comforting.

If a girl randomly came up to me on a bus, and it led to her robbing me at gunpoint, I could hardly conclude that "all" that random interaction with females on buses leads to is trouble or being robbed if at least one human experience on the planet disconfirms this claim.

I think you might be distorting the odds of a negative experience for all females based on a tragic personal experience. My female friend wouldn't have half the friends she has if she assumed that a guy randomly approaching her "only" brings trouble. That's the kind of thinking that is very common among people with social phobia though.



blossom said:


> Of course I don't think that all guys are creeps. I have a good father and brothers and a good boyfriend. Hell, they clued me in on these things, but I also had to learn the hard way at first and would not listen because I honestly thought that well most guys were like my dad and brothers. No, they aren't and especially not in certain places.


Out of curiosity (and only if you don't mind answering), how did you meet your boyfriend? What's the ideal way, in your opinion, for girls to meet guys?

As an aside, the only girl who was interested in me was totally creepy (literally committing crimes to get my contact information and stalking/watching me when I'd be out in public for a couple examples). I never ever ever ever randomly chat up girls or ask anyone out because I feel inherently "creepy" due to this being drilled into my head through the expressed worries of females. It works in that no girl has ever called me creepy or acted like I was creepy... Of course, I don't get to know anyone at the same time.


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## Eilicea (Jun 15, 2008)

Just Lurking said:


> You're obviously not interested in guys who are even three years older than you? That's a matter of personal taste, but I fail to see what's "wrong" with such an age difference.


I mean it might not be "wrong" in all situations but it was in these. Like as I said before, when my friend (who was actually four years older than me, not three) was attracted to me, I was still pretty immature for my age physically and socially, so it was like he was attracted to a twelve- or thirteen-year-old when he was eighteen. Which is pretty sketchy imo. And the first guy I worked with (the 20-year-old) was definitely a creep, even my mom noticed.


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## vicente (Nov 10, 2003)

Just Lurking said:


> So, when a guy says "Hi what's your name?" and follows it up with a quick "Oh that's nice. Can I have your number?" ... that does not necessarily make him a creep, or even sketchy. He's just clueless about courtship.


That's enough to make a guy "creepy" in most girls' books.

There are two ways not to be creepy:
a.) Approach her confidently in a way that will put her at ease immediately. You must be in her "league" to do this. No uglies / old people. Being shy and anxious and not knowing what to do sounds the CREEP alarm.
b.) Don't show any interest in her whatsoever.


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## DudeHere (Jul 10, 2008)

I have a general idea of sketchy, but want more specifics, so I make sure not to come off as that.


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

DudeHere said:


> I have a general idea of sketchy, but want more specifics, so I make sure not to come off as that.


To be most certain, just never talk to women. Never look at, approach, stand near, or do anything to pay her any attention at all. That works for me, as I don't have girls telling me I'm sketchy, a creep, or anything else like that. :lol

To be less certain, you have to somehow not make her feel like you're some kind of predatory guy who wants to take advantage of her. Here I'm assuming you're not, haha.

Some girls' fears are so high though that they'll assume "random guy" equates with "predatory creep" no matter the context or what you say/do/look like. That's the most extreme end of the fear spectrum, but I'm guessing that this cannot be prevented if you interact in any way with a girl with that much fear.

So there are no guarantees. Some people will think you're sketchy no matter what.

You can reduce the odds by avoiding obviously disturbing behavior (constant wide-eyed staring as if you're obsessed, following girls, touching girls, asking them where they live, etc.)

If all you do is say hello and keep walking, and they call you "sketchy" or a creep or whatever for that, then the problem has a lot more to do with themselves and their irrational fears than anything you did. I don't buy the "it's always entirely males' fault" line when an accusation of "creep" or "stalker" or "sketchy" is handed out. That resembles a witch hunt, in which the accused is assumed guilty of some sort of predatory behavior until proven innocent.


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## Glenns (Aug 11, 2008)

The island dwarfing hypothesis states that when there are few predators in an environment that has few resources, the endemic species will evolve into a smaller morphological form. The obverse also holds true: If there are many predators in an environment that's rich in resources, the endemic species will evolve into a larger physiological form.

What does any of this have to do with creepy dudes hitting on women in the subway system? It has everything to do with the direction and magnitude our species is evolving in the current environment.

Since the environment we live in is high in resources (we can buy a meal at McDonalds for a mere $2, for example), and since our society is percieved as being hostile, with lots of predators (fancied, of course. Compliments of our sensationalist media), our species has to necessarily evolve into the larger morphological form.

This is important for us men, who may have questioned at one point or another why women seem compelled to date or marry tall males. "Why do most women like big guys?" we ask ourselves. "How can they be attracted to big, hairy, stinky dudes who perspire too much and watch sports all the time?" The reason is because of reverse island dwarfing: women in this society are naturally compelled toward the larger-end of our species because of 1) abundance of resources, and 2) threats of predation, whether fancied or real. This fact of nature kind of reduces the woman to an animal, since she's being guided purely by instinct. But we can never forget that that's exactly what we are: very advanced animals.
The litmus test for us men, then, if we want to pursue a relationship with an intelligent woman is to identify those women who don't give in easily to reverse island dwarfing and show no fear of these imagined threats.

Thanks, Darwin!


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## ardrum (May 13, 2007)

Glenns said:


> The island dwarfing hypothesis states that when there are few predators in an environment that has few resources, the endemic species will evolve into a smaller morphological form. The obverse also holds true: If there are many predators in an environment that's rich in resources, the endemic species will evolve into a larger physiological form.
> 
> What does any of this have to do with creepy dudes hitting on women in the subway system? It has everything to do with the direction and magnitude our species is evolving in the current environment.
> 
> ...


Haha, cool post.  I don't think the analogy carries over well to human courtship preferences, but it was an interesting, thought-provoking read.

The problem is that humans actually have extremely few predators rather than numerous predators (maybe just lethal bacterial diseases or something). But you're right that there are, at least in the United States and other wealthy countries, abundant food resources. So it's easier for people predisposed to be large (with their higher caloric needs) to not only survive, but eat well into excess of what is required to live. Using "predator" in the way you're using to apply it to humanity commits an equivocation fallacy of how the term is used in biology though. I do think that previous experience with large, predatory mammals in human history has shaped mate selection though.

If we were starving as a society, like the most poor regions of the world, smaller people (or people with lower caloric needs) might have an advantage of making it through a dry spell of food if everyone gets the same amount of food. Human society can be complicated though, and they might share food unevenly to meet the same percentage of needs from person to person or something. There are all kinds of variables at play really, so it's probably inaccurate to use just one as the explanation. There's likely an entire matrix of factors at play.

I think another key feature of attraction to larger, taller men is the idea of their probablistically being better providers/guardians in the vast majority of time in which humans have evolved. If you have offspring with a powerful male, he is more likely to fend off hungry tigers/lions from gobbling them up. Also, his stronger traits would likely show up in your children, making them more likely to thrive and reproduce as well (advancing your genetic line further). Also, he can protect the offspring from rival males (primates will often murder the young from a rival male after hitting alpha status in order to erase that genetic line and start his own, which serves to make his genes proportionally more dominant in the overall pool).

Choosing a small, pansy guy as your mate would probablistically lead to weaker offspring (and for women, they have to be more choosy about their mates since they cannot reproduce nearly as well as men), and a "protector" who is less efficient at protection from rival males and predators.

It's funny to think of us as a bunch of beasts with extremely advanced technology. Actually, it's kind of scary too.


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