# Whose side do you take on this?



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Scenario: Two people chatting on a dating site, agree to meet. It goes well, they compliment each other, there is mutual attraction, good conversation. They sit and talk and go for a brief walk, then say goodbye.

The girl tells the guy in texts afterwards that now isn't a good time to date, she's going on a month-long trip back to her home country. Guy tells her he can wait and resume things with her when she returns. She agrees to this and tells him to add her on FB. They chat a little bit off and on, here and there.

A week later, before her trip, with no warning she updates her status to "In A Relationship" and there's a picture of some mystery guy who is weird looking and far less attractive. 

Guy messages her upset, asking her why she didn't tell him, asking why she added him on FB and agreed to resume things once she returned from her trip. Asks her why she gave him the line about it being a bad time to date and now is dating another guy. She replies with hostility that she only spent 20 minutes with him on that one date and doesn't owe him anything. He replies that she owes him the basic courtesy of respect. She blocks him.

Whose side do you take on this? Did anyone do anything wrong or questionable?


----------



## DarrellLicht (Mar 9, 2013)

Girl's obviously a flake. It's the guy's mistake for allowing himself to get strung along. 

Move along, nothing more to see..


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

One date doesn't mean anything. She should have been honest with "the guy", but most people aren't because they want to let the other person down easy. It's not the right way to go about things, in my opinion, but it's not like she and "the guy" had a relationship of any sort, so in the end no, she does not owe "the guy" anything. "The guy" should realize that one date means nothing, that there are plenty of fish in the sea, and that confronting the girl in this situation only shows desperation and bitterness. "The guy" should instead focus his energies on becoming a bigger man and not falling prey to these kinds of petty situations, because not only did the girl not really do anything wrong, even if she did there would be nothing "the guy" could gain from the confrontation. There is no point in bothering to demand respect from someone that "the guy" barely knows who sorta kinda not really disrespectd "the guy". Waste of time and energy. On to the next one, "guy".


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

rymo said:


> One date doesn't mean anything. She should have been honest with "the guy", but most people aren't because they want to let the other person down easy. It's not the right way to go about things, in my opinion, but it's not like she and "the guy" had a relationship of any sort, so in the end no, she does not owe "the guy" anything. "The guy" should realize that one date means nothing, that there are plenty of fish in the sea, and that confronting the girl in this situation only shows desperation and bitterness. "The guy" should instead focus his energies on becoming a bigger man and not falling prey to these kinds of petty situations, because not only did the girl not really do anything wrong, even if she did there would be nothing "the guy" could gain from the confrontation. There is no point in bothering to demand respect from someone that "the guy" barely knows who sorta kinda not really disrespectd "the guy". Waste of time and energy. On to the next one, "guy".


You don't think it's kind of s**tty that she led him on like that with false hope? Or lied about it being a bad time to date? The whole thing should have been cleared up far earlier with basic communication, right?

Well aware that it's petty and pointless, but you could say that about nearly every human interaction. I don't see how it's either bitter or desperate to call a person out after they are deceitful. I think that's how society gets better, by enough people calling each other out for their bad behavior, rather than letting it continue unchecked.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> You don't think it's kind of s**tty that she led him on like that with false hope? Or lied about it being a bad time to date? The whole thing should have been cleared up far earlier with basic communication, right?
> 
> Well aware that it's petty and pointless, but you could say that about nearly every human interaction. I don't see how it's either bitter or desperate to call a person out after they are deceitful. I think that's how society gets better, by enough people calling each other out for their bad behavior, rather than letting it continue unchecked.


The point is that she gave an indication that she was disinterested - it doesn't matter at all if she's being honest or not. You just have to get the hint and move on, because what else can you do? You're not going to convince her to change her mind, especially if you act confrontationally.

As far as whether or not she's a bad, dishonest person - like I said, I prefer to handle these situations with actual honesty, but most of the time that just doesn't happen. Because to her, you are just a blip on the radar. One date means absolutely nothing. In other words, you are not part of her life at that point. If it were 3, 4 dates, well maybe that's another story.

By the way - just general date advice: this is exactly the reason why you should ALWAYS go for the kiss on the first date. You really have nothing to gain by waiting to escalate physically with the girl. If anything, that display of confidence might tip the scales in your favor because of the sexual tension it creates.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

You didn't take a side! Haha. Seems like you acknowledge both but side more with the girl as a sort of "whatever, it wasn't that serious and we all act deceitfully sometimes, we don't owe each other common decency". 

It's not the one date I was focusing on in the scenario, it's the follow up unnecessary BS "Add me on FB! Sure we can pick things up where we left off when I get back. It's a bad time for me to date now!" All pointless leading-on. They probably knew at that point they had zero interest in the guy but couldn't bring themselves to say it. Or wanted to give a consolation prize - thanks for trying, here's your teddy bear and coupon for 50 cents off your next ice cream cone!

Don't agree about the kissing thing, it's so situational. If the mood isn't right, making the attempt will blow up in your face. If she's on the fence about you, trying for a kiss so soon will scare a girl off. Have to really read the person right to make that work.


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

It sounds like she said no, he refused to take no for an answer and got pushy, she didn't know how to handle that and ended up caving and acquiescing. If the guy is upset over this, he did it to himself.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Shameful said:


> It sounds like she said no, he refused to take no for an answer and got pushy, she didn't know how to handle that and ended up caving and acquiescing. If the guy is upset over this, he did it to himself.


No way it sounds like she already had her mind made up. She was going on the trip specifically to go be with this other guy and was using the first guy as a fallback.


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

Sacrieur said:


> No way it sounds like she already had her mind made up. She was going on the trip specifically to go be with this other guy and was using the first guy as a fallback.


Huh? I don't see anything in the post that says the guy she's in a relationship was in the country she's traveling to.

A much more reasonable assumption is that she was going on dates with several guys, which is normal for someone who's looking for a partner, and she wasn't interested in this guy so told him no but was interested in the other guy and they kept dating, eventually updating the facebook status.


----------



## jsgt (Jun 26, 2011)

I'd take the girls side. She's right...20 mins or one date/meeting doesn't mean anything. Though an explanation would be nice, it's not something she _has_ to do. As an informed guy, I'd hope he already knows this is typical behavior of people. Expect others to have no regard for anyone but them self. That is just how things are. Also, it's the guys fault for agreeing to wait for a woman...especially one he's known for a short time who is going away. *Never* wait for a woman unless you're already in a serious relationship with her.


----------



## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

I take the guy's side. It seems like she never had any intention of resuming things after her trip. But even if she did intend to and just happened to meet an amazing guy she really wanted to date before the trip, I don't see why she would have replied in a hostile manner. I would have probably apologized and said that I met someone who seemed like a better match for me, and then would have blocked him if he replied in a hostile manner after that.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

I take the guy's side. The girl is a deceitful b*tch. 

The guy was strung along, he stood up for himself when he realized he had been deceived, and she acted with hostility when he called her out on it because it's often easier to hate on those you've wronged than to apologize.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Overall, I'd side with the guy. The girl could've been more honest. Next time, I hope the guy doesn't get so wrapped up in someone like this right away.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

IndigoPena said:


> "now isn't a good time to date" sounds like a pretty clear indicator of low interest to me. It was her attempt to let the guy down "easy". If she was interested, she wouldn't be so willing to let the guy go.


This is true.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> Huh? I don't see anything in the post that says the guy she's in a relationship was in the country she's traveling to.
> 
> A much more reasonable assumption is that she was going on dates with several guys, which is normal for someone who's looking for a partner, and she wasn't interested in this guy so told him no but was interested in the other guy and they kept dating, eventually updating the facebook status.


As a person with insider information, I can say for a fact that she did not at any point tell the guy "no". Closest to that was saying it was a bad time for her to be dating because of her trip. Which turned out to be untrue, perhaps a line she was using to try and get the guy to give up.

And to clarify guy she started dating lived here in the states, not in the country she was visiting.


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

mjkittredge said:


> As a person with insider information, I can say for a fact that she did not at any point tell the guy "no". Closest to that was *saying it was a bad time for her to be dating *because of her trip. Which turned out to be untrue, perhaps a line she was using to try and get the guy to give up.
> 
> And to clarify guy she started dating lived here in the states, not in the country she was visiting.


That's a no....


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

IndigoPena said:


> You're good. Fast on the trigger there. :teeth


LOL, need me to delete it?


----------



## mezzoforte (May 16, 2010)

Cerberus said:


> The guy was strung along, he stood up for himself when he realized he had been deceived, and *she acted with hostility when he called her out on it because it's often easier to hate on those you've wronged than to apologize.*


Most people seem to do this unfortunately. :|


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

"now isn't a good time to date" sounds like a pretty clear indicator of low interest to me. It was her attempt to let the guy down "easy". If she was interested, she wouldn't be so willing to let the guy go."

Well traveling abroad for a month is kind of a while to keep up with a person, for them to wait, so maybe just considerate. Doesn't have to mean low interest - which, if that was the case, why agree to resuming things when they returned and adding them to FB?


----------



## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

It's kind of creepy reading through this thread and seeing you refer to yourself in 3rd person all the time... Ahem, it was a clear sign she wasn't all that interested when she told you this wasn't a good time to date (if that was true, why was she on a dating site, and why did she meet with you in the first place?). As other posters have said, you probably shouldn't get too invested in someone you've known for such a short time. There are plenty of other girls out there. Forget this one and just move on.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> That's a no....


"Well traveling abroad for a month is kind of a while to keep up with a person, for them to wait, so maybe just considerate. Doesn't have to mean low interest - which, if that was the case, why agree to resuming things when they returned and adding them to FB?"


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

mjkittredge said:


> "Well traveling abroad for a month is kind of a while to keep up with a person, for them to wait, so maybe just considerate. Doesn't have to mean low interest - which, if that was the case, why agree to resuming things when they returned and adding them to FB?"


I answered that already, he was being a dick. He was pushy and she didn't know how to handle it, so she acquiesced. He was jerk, got what he deserved.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

veron said:


> It's kind of creepy reading through this thread and seeing you refer to yourself in 3rd person all the time... Ahem, it was a clear sign she wasn't all that interested when she told you this wasn't a good time to date (if that was true, was was she on a dating site, and why did she meet with you in the first place?). As other posters have said, you probably shouldn't get too invested in someone you've known for such a short time. There are plenty of other girls out there. Forget this one and just move on.


How do you know it's me and not a friend or family member ect? A lot of people on here talk about situations they witness but are not a part of. You assume too much.

Guess you are easily creeped out, maybe these forums aren't for you.

As I said, multiple times, she may have said it was a bad time to date out of consideration for a person, not wanting them to have to wait so long. But the guy said he would wait for her and like to resume things when she returned, and she agreed to that and then asked to be added on FB.

This situation happened months ago but keeps bugging me in my mind, decided to vent it finally. Everyone knows there are lots of people out there. But if they behave like this it's kind of discouraging. Everyone knows they should move on - if they did this site wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be here. What do you need to move on from?


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Shameful said:


> Huh? I don't see anything in the post that says the guy she's in a relationship was in the country she's traveling to.
> 
> A much more reasonable assumption is that she was going on dates with several guys, which is normal for someone who's looking for a partner, and she wasn't interested in this guy so told him no but was interested in the other guy and they kept dating, eventually updating the facebook status.


She just happened to be taking an expensive trip to her home country where she just happened to meet a less attractive man who she just happened to like better than this other guy and just happened to start a relationship?

She gave absolutely no indication that she didn't want to see him anymore up until she blocked him (why add him in the first place). Something tells me she wanted to keep her options open while she met this other dude, then threw the first dude to the side of the road when things worked out.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> I answered that already, he was being a dick. He was pushy and she didn't know how to handle it, so she acquiesced. He was jerk, got what he deserved.


You make a lot of assumptions. Nobody was pushy or a jerk to anyone. I think you're just projecting at this point.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Sacrieur said:


> She just happened to be taking an expensive trip to her home country where she just happened to meet a less attractive man who she just happened to like better than this other guy and just happened to start a relationship?
> 
> She gave absolutely no indication that she didn't want to see him anymore up until she blocked him (why add him in the first place). Something tells me she wanted to keep her options open while she met this other dude, then threw the first dude to the side of the road when things worked out.


No the guy she started dating was also in the states. She hadn't left on her trip yet at that point.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

mezzoforte said:


> Most people seem to do this unfortunately. :|


Agreed.


----------



## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

mjkittredge said:


> No the guy she started dating was also in the states. She hadn't left on her trip yet at that point.


Oh in that case the first guy just got beaten by the second, fair and square.


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

mjkittredge said:


> You make a lot of assumptions. Nobody was pushy or a jerk to anyone. I think you're just projecting at this point.


You said in your post that he was pushy. He didn't accept the no, he kept pressuring her to continue seeing him when she came back, and trying to get around her explanation.


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

She shouldn't have added him to FB and should have just left it at 'now isn't a good time to date, she's going on a month-long trip back to her home country.' That would have been letting him down gently. Then he'd never know she got into a relationship with another guy, wouldn't have wasted time waiting around, and probably would have gotten the hint anyway.



> and there's a picture of some mystery guy who is weird looking and far less attractive.


This bit makes me think the guy that got strung along was you lol 

Anyway I know why she did what she did, but seriously. If it's not real life and it's online there's not much excuse not to be up front, if he starts acting like a dick afterwards like many a guy does, just block him. It seems unlikely that he'll hunt you down and stab you to death. Statistically speaking.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Shameful said:


> You said in your post that he was pushy. He didn't accept the no, he kept pressuring her to continue seeing him when she came back, and trying to get around her explanation.


It was a temporary no because of the trip, not just a no. Are guys supposed to just assume that life circumstances that get in the way of dating temporarily means "no" period? Are we just supposed to assume all women are liars? I'd rather not do that. Seems misogynistic. I'd rather prefer to think of women as having the back bone to mean what they say.


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

Cerberus said:


> It was a temporary no because of the trip, not just a no. Are guys supposed to just assume that life circumstances that get in the way of dating temporarily means "no" period? Are we just supposed to assume all women are liars? I'd rather not do that. Seems misogynistic. I'd rather prefer to think of women as having the back bone to mean what they say.


You'd rather assume women are idiots? She doesn't need him to figure out how they can date, she can look at a calendar herself and say we can date again in a month.


----------



## veron (Apr 29, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> How do you know it's me and not a friend or family member ect? A lot of people on here talk about situations they witness but are not a part of. You assume too much.


You seem to be taking this scenario quite to heart for something that happened to another person. Also, 99.9% venting threads made on here are made by people talking about themselves.

I know it's a painful thing to accept, but if someone doesn't sound too keen on you, they most likely aren't. Situations like this have happened to me plenty, and now when they do, I just try to forget about the guy. You could however do the opposite thing and try to pursue her and win her over. In some situations, this actually works. But don't get your hopes up too high.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

Shameful said:


> You'd rather assume women are idiots? She doesn't need him to figure out how they can date, she can look at a calendar herself and say we can date again in a month.


lol

Men are supposed to pursue, and some women play hard to get. She gave him hope by adding him on facebook as an apparent act of good faith. She was deceitful and strung him along.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> You said in your post that he was pushy. He didn't accept the no, he kept pressuring her to continue seeing him when she came back, and trying to get around her explanation.


Nowhere did I say anyone was pushy. She said it was a bad time to date since she was going away for her long vacation soon. He said he wouldn't mind waiting since he liked her and would like to resume dating when she returned. She agreed to this and gave him signs of interest.

It wasn't pressure, it was a simple statement.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

IndigoPena said:


> What would "resuming things" consist of? There had been 1 date, some texting, and a Facebook "friendship". There had been no discussion of being exclusive. The guy read too much into her words and expected a commitment where there was none.


Resuming getting to know one another - the dating process. started on a dating site, emails, chats/ texts, phone calls for a week before and after the meeting.

I don't think a commitment was expected. Just being honest and up front about situations. If there was interest, or there was none, or if they had decided to go exclusive with someone else, those things should be stated as a basic level of courtesy. And why keep other suitors around on FB when one had been chosen?


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> Nowhere did I say anyone was pushy. She said it was a bad time to date since she was going away for her long vacation soon. He said he wouldn't mind waiting since he liked her and would like to resume dating when she returned. She agreed to this and gave him signs of interest.
> 
> It wasn't pressure, it was a simple statement.


The bottom line is that this kind of thing happens all the time. The girl could have been more honest, sure, but the guy could have gotten the message and instead of confronting her, directed his attention towards other girls.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

veron said:


> You seem to be taking this scenario quite to heart for something that happened to another person. Also, 99.9% venting threads made on here are made by people talking about themselves.
> 
> I know it's a painful thing to accept, but if someone doesn't sound too keen on you, they most likely aren't. Situations like this have happened to me plenty, and now when they do, I just try to forget about the guy. You could however do the opposite thing and try to pursue her and win her over. In some situations, this actually works. But don't get your hopes up too high.


Oh no, there will be no further pursuit. Harsh words were exchanged and people were blocked. The bridges are burned. Which is probably for the best.

FYI, I take things to heart that happen to others all the time. It's called Empathy. I can accept rejection. What I have trouble accepting is being led on and played for a fool and then being told the person who did such things wasn't in the wrong and it was perfectly acceptable behavior. Not the slightest bit out of line according to some.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

rymo said:


> The bottom line is that this kind of thing happens all the time. The girl could have been more honest, sure, but the guy could have gotten the message and instead of confronting her, directed his attention towards other girls.


You never call people on their BS after you've been tricked or played or deceived or led on? You just let it all go like a serenely peaceful monk, accepting of all things, bending and swaying in the wind? Other peoples bad behavior doesn't make you angry?

You never once in your life thought "You could have just been honest and up front with me!"


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> Scenario: Two people chatting on a dating site, agree to meet. It goes well, they compliment each other, there is mutual attraction, good conversation. They sit and talk and go for a brief walk, then say goodbye.
> 
> The girl tells the guy in texts afterwards that now isn't a good time to date, she's going on a month-long trip back to her home country. Guy tells her he can wait and resume things with her when she returns. She agrees to this and tells him to add her on FB. They chat a little bit off and on, here and there.
> 
> ...


There are no sides in love and war. Crap happens. Accept it and move on.



mjkittredge said:


> You never call people on their BS after you've been tricked or played or deceived or led on? You just let it all go like a serenely peaceful monk, accepting of all things, bending and swaying in the wind? Other peoples bad behavior doesn't make you angry?
> 
> You never once in your life thought "You could have just been honest and up front with me!"


What good is it going to do to 'call ' her on it?


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> You never call people on their BS after you've been tricked or played or deceived or led on? You just let it all go like a serenely peaceful monk, accepting of all things, bending and swaying in the wind? Other peoples bad behavior doesn't make you angry?
> 
> You never once in your life thought "You could have just been honest and up front with me!"


Sure, to people I know.

You're going to have to get used to this kind of thing in the dating world, my friend. This is _nothing_.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

scarpia said:


> There are no sides in love and war. Crap happens. Accept it and move on.
> 
> What good is it going to do to 'call ' her on it?


When you were a baby, a child, you had no sense of right or wrong, no morals. The only things that were good, were things that were good for you, the only bad things were things that were bad for you. You had to be taught. Right from wrong.

Some behaviors of yours were bad and you kept doing them, but enough people shamed you into behaving yourself. The disapproval of family members, classmates ect clued you in that your behavior was inappropriate, unacceptable, wrong, and that if you continued it you would suffer consequences.

I think the same thing works in the adult world. Enough people calling others on their BS behavior can affect a positive change. You can even learn from others examples without having to be directly involved.

I bet you don't go around saying the N word, right? I bet you don't scream at people in public. I bet you don't tell people you love them if you don't mean it.

Hopefully someday in the future when this woman becomes single again and is dating, she can remember how annoyed and upset a person was at her for leading them on and will be more honest and decisive, instead of giving them false hope.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> When you were a baby, a child, you had no sense of right or wrong, no morals. The only things that were good, were things that were good for you, the only bad things were things that were bad for you. You had to be taught. Right from wrong.
> 
> Some behaviors of yours were bad and you kept doing them, but enough people shamed you into behaving yourself. The disapproval of family members, classmates ect clued you in that your behavior was inappropriate, unacceptable, wrong, and that if you continued it you would suffer consequences.
> 
> ...


Was that your "I have a dream" speech? She will just remember the guys who "call her' on her behavior as angry weirdos.


----------



## Ellethwyn (Nov 2, 2014)

mezzoforte said:


> I take the guy's side. It seems like she never had any intention of resuming things after her trip. But even if she did intend to and just happened to meet an amazing guy she really wanted to date before the trip, I don't see why she would have replied in a hostile manner. I would have probably apologized and said that I met someone who seemed like a better match for me, and then would have blocked him if he replied in a hostile manner after that.


I agree!


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

scarpia said:


> There are no sides in love and war. Crap happens. Accept it and move on.
> 
> What good is it going to do to 'call ' her on it?


He's frustrated at being deceived. He can either internalize or externalize it. Externalizing might help prevent him from feeling bad or blaming himself over it. It's better to let your feelings out on the target deserving of it than to let it fester within.

Letting yourself internalize negative feelings that are resulting from you being wronged is not a good strategy, especially when you're able to call the other person out in a civilized way, which is what he did.

Had he just internalized it, he would be accepting that he wasn't worthy of being respected honestly. By calling her out, he's asserting that he is worthy of that respect.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

IndigoPena said:


> Maybe there was a bit of interest. Would a basic level of courtesy include giving a specific rating to her level of interest? If the guy wanted such specific information, he should have asked. Does some level of interest in Guy1 preclude her from developing a greater interest in Guy2? There is nothing in your OP that indicates she had already decided to go exclusive with someone else. The opening post says it happened a week later. She let the other suitors on FB know they were out of the running by updating her status.
> 
> The things that you say she should have done, she did do.


I think you're missing the point. A simple "Sorry I'm not interested and seeing someone else" would have sufficed. Instead of "Sure we can pick things up where we left off when I get back, add me on FB!" *When you tell a person you will do something, and get their hopes up, but then change your mind, you really should respect them enough to Tell Them.* And not lead them on or give them false hope. And not have them find out as a nasty surprise, a slap in the face. Oh that girl you liked and thought liked you back? Guess what? Haha! FFS. How hard is that to understand? That's what this all boils down to, all these posts and paragraphs.

She just told a guy she'd pick things up with him when she got back, then boom status update she's in a relationship with a weird face guy who looks like sort of a horse/mole hybrid. So for all the guys on here saying life sucks they're ugly they'll never get an attractive woman - well here's an example of one, look at that. Guess it wasn't about looks at all.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

Cerberus said:


> He's frustrated at being deceived. He can either internalize or externalize it. Externalizing might help prevent him from feeling bad or blaming himself over it. It's better to let your feelings out on the target deserving of it than to let it fester within.
> 
> Letting yourself internalize negative feelings that are resulting from you being wronged is not a good strategy, especially when you're able to call the other person out in a civilized way, which is what he did.
> 
> Had he just internalized it, he would be accepting that he wasn't worthy of being respected honestly. By calling her out, he's asserting that he is worthy of that respect.


And making himself out to look like an angry weirdo. If he's going to date he is going to have to get used to the f-ed up headgames. Just brush it off and stop being so sensitive


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

scarpia said:


> Was that your "I have a dream" speech? She will just remember the guys who "call her' on her behavior as angry weirdos.


Sure, it's whatever you want it to be.

Angry weirdos huh? well that's some nice condescending dismissal of other peoples thoughts and feelings. I hope if something is important to you that you get talked down to the same way.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

scarpia said:


> And making himself out to look like an angry weirdo. If he's going to date he is going to have to get used to the f-ed up headgames. Just brush it off and stop being so sensitive


Well, yeah, that's the ideal. Ideally, the person would have enough experience that he'd just be numb to b*tches being b*tches, but this is an SA site. You can't expect people to have that level of experience and just be numb to it. You need experience to get to that point. Calling that b*tch out will be more likely to get him that experience than internalizing it because internalizing is more likely to inhibit.

There's a lot of angry "weirdos" on this site. Telling them not to do something because it will make them look like some stereotype or whatever is not helpful at all.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

scarpia said:


> And making himself out to look like an angry weirdo. If he's going to date he is going to have to get used to the f-ed up headgames. Just brush it off and stop being so sensitive


I am used to the f-ed up headgames, But I don't think it's wrong to make note of them or complain about them. I don't understand why you think it's wrong for me to talk about the experience.

If you're not sensitive about anything and other peoples bad behavior doesn't annoy you, why are you on here?


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> Sure, it's whatever you want it to be.
> 
> Angry weirdos huh? well that's some nice condescending dismissal of other peoples thoughts and feelings. I hope if something is important to you that you get talked down to the same way.


Sorry bud - I am not calling anyone an angry weirdo. But that whacked out chick IS. And she's telling all her friends. the Op should just bang a hooker. He'll feel better.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

IndigoPena said:


> And I think you're the one missing the point, because you're going on as if you know for a fact that she had made up her mind, when it's really just an assumption on your part. You don't know for a fact that she made up her mind until a week later.


Whenever a persons mind was made up, about losing interest in them or choosing someone else, I think they should tell them. I suppose that's a lot to ask.


----------



## scarpia (Nov 23, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> I am used to the f-ed up headgames, But I don't think it's wrong to make note of them or complain about them. I don't understand why you think it's wrong for me to talk about the experience.


I didn't say it was right OR wrong of her. It just IS. It's the dating and mating game - it's not meant to be fun or fair. I didn't say it was wrong (or right) for you either - it's just not productive.


mjkittredge said:


> If you're not sensitive about anything and other peoples bad behavior doesn't annoy you, why are you on here?


Maybe










I guess.

I learned not to get worked up a long time ago. It's the path to enlightenment. 









That and banging hookers.


----------



## peacelizard (Apr 17, 2014)

The girl's a stupid ***** and like to play games but the guy's an idiot for digging for answers after the Facebook status changed. Just run. Run as fast as you can and don't look back. Even if the girl sweet talked him at that point, she obviously can't be trusted so it's going to end in misery either way lol


----------



## anyoldkindofday (Dec 16, 2012)

Why is the other dude's appearance so important to "this guy"? Shouldn't we be giving her bonus points for not just caring about looks?

Anyways "the guy" overreacted there is no gain in getting mad, and while not ideal she's simply done what most people do, which is act disinterested and hope the other gets the message.


----------



## peyandkeele (Dec 5, 2013)

I take no side. Girl shoudlve been more honest, but the guy shouldve taken the hint. If u cant take hints in dating, then dont date plain and simple. Girls especially arent just going to say "never talk to me again". There more likely gonna say something to let u down easy, and u have to take the hint that shes not interested. In this scenario she sounded like she was trying to be nice but thought u would take no the wrong way and led u on with a lie (which tho is understandable from her pov, its still wrong). In the end the girl coulda handled it better, but the guy got too emotionally involved right away. Theres a lesson to be learned from both parties.

I will end by saying something that i said in another thread. Us sa people prefer a blunt no from people when there not interested in us in the dating world. Mainly because we dont pick up on the hints and social cues as well as other people. But normal people prefer the sugar coated version of answers in dating as a form of courtesy(i think its bogus but whatever). So its up to us to understand were not gonna get blunt answers, we have to jusf figure out when someone is interested and when there not. Unfortunately its hard to do and unfair, but life isnt fair, so we just gotta make do or dont date.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

rymo said:


> The bottom line is that this kind of thing happens all the time. The girl could have been more honest, sure, but the guy could have gotten the message and instead of confronting her, directed his attention towards other girls.


I agree, but dating is enough to wear down and frustrate the best of people. Sometimes people get frustrated, and we need to let them vent while gently giving a helping hand.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

srschirm said:


> I agree, but dating is enough to wear down and frustrate the best of people. Sometimes people get frustrated, and we need to let them vent while gently giving a helping hand.


Venting is one thing, but placing blame on the girl and championing retribution against "dishonest" people is another, esp. after getting so much feedback saying that this is a fruitless effort. But you're right, the OP will see the light in time and it's pointless to argue when he's feeling the pain of dating that we all feel sometimes.


----------



## peyandkeele (Dec 5, 2013)

I do agree with what others before me said. This is how dating is, it can be really messed up sometimes. But ur just gonna have to deal with that. Dating isnt for the feint of heart.


----------



## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Seems like the OP's "friend" should be grateful that things never went any further than they did since their values were so obviously different. It wouldn't have worked out and would have only led to more misery.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

anyoldkindofday said:


> Why is the other dude's appearance so important to "this guy"? Shouldn't we be giving her bonus points for not just caring about looks?
> 
> Anyways "the guy" overreacted there is no gain in getting mad, and while not ideal she's simply done what most people do, which is act disinterested and hope the other gets the message.


It's not so important , just an interesting wrinkle felt like mentioning. We have all these threads about looks and preconceived notions about people being superficial, here's an exception to the rule. Big difference in looks and the girl chooses the one who isn't so good looking. Thought people on here should see that.

I guess the lesson here is, you can't control other peoples behavior, and sometimes it's hopeless trying to search for answers or reason with them, there's nothing you can do but let it go and move on.

Good discussion from everyone by the way, I enjoyed it, even the people I disagreed with strongly - thank you for your contributions.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

truant said:


> Seems like the OP's "friend" should be grateful that things never went any further than they did since their values were so obviously different. It wouldn't have worked out and would have only led to more misery.


I saw her. She put a lot of fascinating personal details on her OKC profile. Into anal, oral, orgasms from penetration. Plus into fitness so she had a great body and cute face too. Would have been an ideal lover if nothing else.

Also felt sympathy for her, she had in the past year finalized a divorce from an abusive husband.


----------



## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

Even though that was a dishonest and flakey thing to do to the guy, they were not in a relationship and she didn't owe him anything. Sounds like she has problems when it comes to being upfront with people. Getting divorced and bouncing around men also sounds like she has relationship problems so the guy should be glad he avoided a potential cheating partner.


----------



## andy1984 (Aug 18, 2006)

well yeah its dating. sure its frustrating for the guy. but she can do what she wants. he should let it go.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

mjkittredge said:


> Scenario: Two people chatting on a dating site, agree to meet. It goes well, they compliment each other, there is mutual attraction, good conversation. They sit and talk and go for a brief walk, then say goodbye.
> 
> The girl tells the guy in texts afterwards that now isn't a good time to date, she's going on a month-long trip back to her home country. Guy tells her he can wait and resume things with her when she returns. She agrees to this and tells him to add her on FB. They chat a little bit off and on, here and there.
> 
> ...


Is this guy you by any chance?


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

jsmith92 said:


> Is this guy you by any chance?


Lets just focus on the scenario here. Take a side, any side.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

George McFly said:


> Even though that was a dishonest and flakey thing to do to the guy, they were not in a relationship and *she didn't owe him anything*. Sounds like she has problems when it comes to being upfront with people. Getting divorced and bouncing around men also sounds like she has relationship problems so the guy should be glad he avoided a potential cheating partner.


Not even courtesy or respect or fairness? Does no one owe anyone those things in any circumstances?


----------



## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

mjkittredge said:


> Not even courtesy or respect or fairness? Does no one owe anyone those things in any circumstances?


I think I understand now why I don't understand why you're taking this so personally: I don't expect any of those things from anybody. My life experience hasn't given me any reason to. I guess there's something to be said for low expectations. If I expected those kinds of things, I'd probably be upset, too.


----------



## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

mjkittredge said:


> Not even courtesy or respect or fairness? Does no one owe anyone those things in any circumstances?


'fraid so. If they were in a relationship she should show him respect and courtesy if he was decent to her. That doesn't mean he'd get it anyways. Nobody owes anything to anybody. Humans can be evil creatures and it's not going to stop. Holding onto anger over something that's never going to work out, just puts yourself in misery.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

George McFly said:


> 'fraid so. If they were in a relationship she should show him respect and courtesy if he was decent to her. That doesn't mean he'd get it anyways. Nobody owes anything to anybody. Humans can be evil creatures and it's not going to stop. Holding onto anger over something that's never going to work out, just puts yourself in misery.


That's true. You can't expect everyone to act a certain way - going through life with those kinds of expectations is setting yourself up for disaster. And in this case, what the girl did was not even unusual or mean. They were not even acquaintances, and it's not like she purposefully tried to make him feel bad or go out of her way to disrespect him. She gave him a clear message, he kept pushing anyway, and then she pushed back. Yes, the "we'll hang out after my vacation" thing should not have been said, but let this be a learning experience, OP. Don't wait around for anyone. You can't put all your eggs in one basket, or you _will _ just end up being bitter like this.

I can totally understand your initial reaction. But you have to learn from it and be above it instead of fighting for your cause, or you're going to feel this way every time this happens. And in dating, stuff like this happens all the time.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

mjkittredge said:


> I guess the lesson here is, you can't control other peoples behavior, and sometimes it's hopeless trying to search for answers or reason with them, there's nothing you can do but let it go and move on.


This is something I've come to realize the past few months, although letting go and moving on is quite difficult.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

You had one meet up from a dating website, she said she didn't want to date you, the trip was just a polite excuse to buffer that. You pressed, saying no you'll wait for her, when *she never wanted you to*. Her giving that white lie was her basic courtesy, and for her to respond with hostility *after one meeting which she said she didn't want to date you afterwards but you ignored* is understandable! And no, she doesn't owe you anything, because you're a random dude she met online once but is acting like you have a claim to her. Even saying that she should be with you cause her new boy is ugly! You met once.

Like, one meeting does not entitle you to a dear john letter, esp when you *already got it* but ignored it.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Barette said:


> This guy sounds like a stage 4 clinger. You had one meet up from a dating website and suddenly you're like Menelaus waiting for your Helen to return from Troy? She said she didn't want to date you, the trip was just a polite excuse to buffer that. You pressed, saying no you'll wait for her, when *she never wanted you to*. Her giving that white lie was her basic courtesy, and for her to respond with hostility *after one meeting which she said she didn't want to date you afterwards but you ignored* is understandable! And no, she doesn't owe you anything, because you're a random dude she met online once but is acting like you have a claim to her. Even saying that she should be with you cause her new boy is ugly! YOU MET ONCE.
> 
> Like, dude, realize that one meeting does not entitle you to a dear john letter, esp when you *already got it* but *ignored it* ("I don't want to date you b/c 'insert excuse here'" "no no we'll date still I'll be here when you get back send me a postcard")


I think you're missing the part where she left the door open to dating after her return, and added him on Facebook after she said this.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Dude, she wasn't interested and the third person thing doesn't hide it anymore. It was being gone a month, a month is nothing. She said she didn't want to date, inviting you onto fb might've been a mixed signal but it was probably just her trying to be nice. If she said she didn't want to date then she didnt want to date you, regardless of the circumstances. I'm not being hostile, I'm being honest. I've met a guy then left for a month but I kept things open cause I wanted to date. It was one meeting with a chick who writes a out how she loves anal, it's not something to contemplate so deeply. And one meeting and some online chats doesn't entitle you to anything either, esp when your mind has escalated it into a situation that has "sides" when there wasn't even anything serious to begin with. Move on.


----------



## jsmith92 (Dec 30, 2013)

mjkittredge said:


> Scenario: Two people chatting on a dating site, agree to meet. It goes well, they compliment each other, there is mutual attraction, good conversation. They sit and talk and go for a brief walk, then say goodbye.
> 
> The girl tells the guy in texts afterwards that now isn't a good time to date, she's going on a month-long trip back to her home country. Guy tells her he can wait and resume things with her when she returns. She agrees to this and tells him to add her on FB. They chat a little bit off and on, here and there.
> 
> ...


You gotta move on now before it is too late. 2 years ago I was in a similar situation. I told the girl I liked her and she told me she was with another guy. It's been 2 years now since I have been able to talk to any girls I have liked, have had a crush on, or have been interested in as a result. It sent me into a depression and I am still depressed today.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

I don't see what's wrong with discussing an issue in this case, Barette. Do you have a problem with the OP?


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

Dude, i just gave my opinion, y'all are inferring attitudes and intents that arent there.


----------



## Darktower776 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think the girl should've said to add you on FB and make it sound like she was open to a relationship when she got back.

But she's not obligated to give you any sort of explanation either. It would've been nice and the courteous thing to do but I wouldn't necessarily expect it in that situation.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Barette said:


> Dude, i just gave my opinion, y'all are inferring attitudes and intents that arent there.


You were really rude and came off as angry about it as if it was you in the situation.

I asked you to take a side, not to go berserk at me like I insulted your family.


----------



## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

mjkittredge said:


> You were really rude and came off as angry about it as if it was you in the situation.
> 
> I asked you to take a side, not to go berserk at me like I insulted your family.


The response was harsh but as the OP did not specify who the guy was I can't see grounds for feeling offended.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Barette said:


> Dude, she wasn't interested and the third person thing doesn't hide it anymore. It was being gone a month, a month is nothing. She said she didn't want to date, inviting you onto fb might've been a mixed signal but it was probably just her trying to be nice. If she said she didn't want to date then she didnt want to date you, regardless of the circumstances. I'm not being hostile, I'm being honest. I've met a guy then left for a month but I kept things open cause I wanted to date. It was one meeting with a chick who writes a out how she loves anal, it's not something to contemplate so deeply. And one meeting and some online chats doesn't entitle you to anything either, esp when your mind has escalated it into a situation that has "sides" when there wasn't even anything serious to begin with. Move on.


She didn't say she didn't want to date. Can you stop repeating that line, which isn't true?

She said it was a bad time to date because of her upcoming trip. Agreeing with the offer that she'd like to resume things when she got back was definitely a mixed signal.

Boggles my mind how people think expecting or hoping others to be up front and clear about how they feel when they get involved with others is considered absurd. I think if it were you as the guy in this scenario you'd be hurt and confused as well, and wish you had been clued in sooner rather than having to find out as a nasty surprise it was all a bunch of lies.

Parties involved have definitely moved on. I was just thinking about this subject, it came up in my mind, and wanted to get peoples opinions on it.

Consensus seems to be very disturbing : Nobody owes anyone any respect anymore, be a deceitful sh**ty person, lead others on and people on SAS will White Knight for you. Amazing how low we've collectively sunk. To expect the worst from everyone and accept it as normal and okay.

I've had to tell people I wasn't interested in seeing them again, early on with dating or breaking up from an established relationship. When you care about a person it's not easy or pleasant. I didn't "hint hint" about it hoping they'd figure out on their own. I felt like the people I was with deserved to know and not be strung along or lied to. Crazy me for expecting others to hold themselves to the same standards. :no


----------



## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

mjkittredge said:


> Whose side do you take on this? Did anyone do anything wrong or questionable?


The guy went on a date and perhaps the woman had a good time, but for whatever reason she has lost interest or met someone else during the time she was away. I don't think he did anything majorly wrong, but after one date it's probably too way early to have a sense of betrayal or to feel like she owed him anything.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

mjkittredge said:


> You were really rude and came off as angry about it as if it was you in the situation.
> 
> I asked you to take a side, not to go berserk at me like I insulted your family.


I'm not trying to start anything... I just gave an opinion, jeez. I didn't go beserk, and I def wasn't angry lol, maybe I wasn't sweet and kind but you're sensitive about the situation in the OP so you're blowing my response out of proportion. Your response is the insulting and beserk one, you even mentioned my chin surgery dude lol. Ignore me, ignore it, whatever. Jeez.



andy0128 said:


> The response was harsh but as the OP did not specify who the guy was I can't see grounds for feeling offended.


I really don't think it was that harsh... But seriously I'm not trying to start anything here, I don't get the response I'm getting from the OP. I'll go back and edit out some stuff but it wasn't that big of a deal really, to warrant such a response lol


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

I shouldn't get involved but I didn't read anything hostile or rude in her post(maybe all the exclamation points though?). The response to it was so out of line though.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

andy0128 said:


> The guy went on a date and perhaps the woman had a good time, but for whatever reason she has lost interest or met someone else during the time she was away. I don't think he did anything majorly wrong, but after one date it's probably too way early to have a sense of betrayal or to feel like she owed him anything.


You didn't really pick a side, you just sort of waffled there. Stop riding the fence, whose side are you on, the girls or the guys?

The point I was making to others was, she led him on, didn't indicate she lost interest, in fact indicated the opposite - that she was still available and interested. And that's where the feeling of betrayal comes in. The saying "Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining" applies here.

2 weeks of talking and one meeting doesn't seem like much, but still, I think it's reasonable to give a person an update, however brief when things change.

We don't owe anyone anything, people keep saying that. I don't see anything in the original post or elsewhere that states or implies the OP felt he was "owed". Maybe more along the lines of hoping for or expecting honesty or fairness or basic courtesy.


----------



## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)




----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

Honestly the guy should have been happy she even told him the thing about traveling to try to let him down. I would say most women wouldn't even have done that - most literally would have vanished and you'd have never heard from her again after that date.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> I shouldn't get involved but I didn't read anything hostile or rude in her post(maybe all the exclamation points though?). The response to it was so out of line though.


Calling the guy a stage 4 clinger to start (she claims to have edited that out so you might not have seen it). At least she didn't say stage 5 clinger, that would have been unforgivable. :b

Her whole post was condescending and insulting, full of assumptions stated as facts, and implying the guy was ridiculous and an idiot for thinking or feeling what he did. It's one thing to disagree its another entirely to be insulting about it. Any responses severity should take that into account.

At least she took a side though, (without explicitly saying it).


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> Honestly the guy should have been happy she even told him the thing about traveling to try to let him down. I would say most women wouldn't even have done that - most literally would have vanished and you'd have never heard from her again after that date.


Think vanishing would be preferable to lying and leading on.

Not a good time to date because of upcoming vacation could be interpreted in various ways. As in, "I don't want you to have to wait for me that long, wouldn't be fair to you because I'm very nice and don't want people to go the extra mile for me, makes me uncomfortable." Maybe it was a sort of passive aggressive rejection attempt. Seeing as she knew she was going and still went on the first date anyway.

The guy liked her enough he was more than happy to wait.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

I'm feeling mjkr here, peoples' consideration for others' feelings nowadays sucks. But you gotta just let it run off your back. Remember: easy come, easy go.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

rymo said:


> Venting is one thing, but placing blame on the girl and championing retribution against "dishonest" people is another, esp. after getting so much feedback saying that this is a fruitless effort. But you're right, the OP will see the light in time and it's pointless to argue when he's feeling the pain of dating that we all feel sometimes.


Yeah why place blame on people who lie and deceive others and lead them on with false hope? We should just happily accept it. They're so blameless for their bad behavior uke

Retribution? No. Just societal shame on dishonesty, like we have for racism or discriminating against the disabled or criminal behavior. Discourage it, and encourage the opposite - being honest and up front with people.

I don't lie to women telling them I will wait for them if I won't, that I love them if I don't, that I'll see them again if I won't, that I like them if I don't. People would look at me like an @$$hole if I did that, and rightly so. So why White Knight for a girl who is a liar? Why make excuses for that behavior?


----------



## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

mjkittredge said:


> The girl tells the guy in texts afterwards that *now isn't a good time to date*, she's going on a month-long trip back to her home country.


_"Now isn't a good time to date"_ was your cue to back off - a very bad sign after a first date. The trip stuff is fluff.

That much is in hindsight, though, and it's not always clear when you're going through it. She would have been better to have repeated the line she gave you or just ignore all further contact (short of telling you flat-out, that is), rather than adding you to Facebook (which is a really stupid thing to do when you're not interested in someone).

As for indirect rejections... So often, people comment here (on this site and everywhere, in general) about how girls need to be 'more honest' about their lack of interest. What seems to be overlooked are the complications in *directly rejecting* someone. It's not all that easy on the other side of the fence, either - the main concerns being 1) 'letting the guy down gently' and 2) opening herself up to hostile backlash for "not giving the guy a chance", thinking "she's too good for him", being a "b****", etc.

Try not to get so hung up on someone so early on that you can't let this stuff roll off your back. You will be much better off if you can get yourself into the mindset (from the get-go) of _"she's just a girl; I don't know her yet; maybe this will work out, maybe it won't - it doesn't matter right now."_ Focus on enjoying the date 'in the moment', but don't put too much stock into it too soon.

You have this experience now - use it to your advantage as you move on to the next. You can only get better at it.


----------



## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

mezzoforte said:


> I take the guy's side. It seems like she never had any intention of resuming things after her trip. But even if she did intend to and just happened to meet an amazing guy she really wanted to date before the trip, I don't see why she would have replied in a hostile manner. I would have probably apologized and said that I met someone who seemed like a better match for me, and then would have blocked him if he replied in a hostile manner after that.


This is a smart response. I also take the males side for this lady's reasons.


----------



## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

mjkittredge said:


> You were really rude and came off as angry about it as if it was you in the situation.
> 
> I asked you to take a side, not to go berserk at me like I insulted your family.


Tbf you've pretty much come across the same way in this thread except in the guy's shoes.


----------



## srschirm (Jun 25, 2006)

Just Lurking is right on too.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> Yeah why place blame on people who lie and deceive others and lead them on with false hope? We should just happily accept it. They're so blameless for their bad behavior uke
> 
> Retribution? No. Just societal shame on dishonesty, like we have for racism or discriminating against the disabled or criminal behavior. Discourage it, and encourage the opposite - being honest and up front with people.
> 
> I don't lie to women telling them I will wait for them if I won't, that I love them if I don't, that I'll see them again if I won't, that I like them if I don't. People would look at me like an @$$hole if I did that, and rightly so. So why White Knight for a girl who is a liar? Why make excuses for that behavior?


oh boy.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Just Lurking said:


> *"Now isn't a good time to date" was your cue to back off - a very bad sign after a first date. The trip stuff is fluff.*
> 
> As for indirect rejections... So often, people comment here (on this site and everywhere, in general) about how girls need to be 'more honest' about their lack of interest. What seems to be overlooked are the complications in *directly rejecting* someone. It's not all that easy on the other side of the fence, either - the main concerns being 1) 'letting the guy down gently' and 2) opening herself up to hostile backlash for "not giving the guy a chance", thinking "she's too good for him", being a "b****", etc.
> 
> ...


Can't you see though how it could be interpreted as her just being polite to the guy as in "Oh I don't want you to have to wait that long for me" especially after she complimented him and said she had a good time on the date? I think the same line has been used by other people before, and the person actually meant it was literally a bad time to date with a month long interruption, but if a person was willing to be patient they could actually pick things up again when they got back.

In that scenario, assuming it was a rejection would be wrong.

I'm of the mindset where, even if things look bleak or not too promising, throw a hail Mary pass and see if something can be salvaged.

I think even though it was hurtful in the moment, bother parties are more than over it. For me, it sort of resonated in my mind as a theme, one of many reasons why the dating process is lousy, and that's why I'm bringing it up as a new thread months later. In addition to being curious about others opinions.

All the people saying "get over it, let it go, move on" - that's already been done, and now the carcass of the failed dating/communicating attempt is served up for our examination. Dig in. Take a side.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

rymo said:


> oh boy.


That's not very helpful or enlightening. Give me more to work with than 2 words please.

What, you've been led on and lied to so much you've grown to like it, got a case of stockholm syndrome?

"Dating is sh**ty? People are sh**Ty? Yeah that's how it's always been! Get used to it stop complaining! You're silly for even bringing it up! Get to like the taste of sh**!"

Is that what you're trying to say to me?

Through the replies, this one minor incident in the OP is opening my eyes to so much more in other areas. Peoples mindsets and such. I'm learning a lot here.


----------



## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

mjkittredge said:


> Can't you see though how it could be interpreted as her just being polite to the guy as in "Oh I don't want you to have to wait that long for me" especially after she complimented him and said she had a good time on the date?


If it wasn't a good time in her life to date, then why would she go on the date in the first place?

Also, if you switch positions with her for a moment: If you *were* interested in the person (but had a very busy upcoming schedule), would you tell them _"now isn't a good time to date"_ without adding a _"but..."_ in there?

It's not an exact science and, again... it's easy in hindsight... Sometimes, you just have to get a feel for it. If there is a 'next time', you'll be wiser to it.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Persephone The Dread said:


> Tbf you've pretty much come across the same way in this thread except in the guy's shoes.


Yeah I identify with this situation strongly. And have no problem being rude towards people who are rude to me.

Bothers me how mentally beat down people are that they think nothing of lousy behavior when it comes to dating and communicating with others. It's accepted and expected, and people are surprised at me for calling it out.

That's sad. We should all want better from ourselves and others.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> That's not very helpful or enlightening. Give me more to work with than 2 words please.
> 
> What, you've been led on and lied to so much you've grown to like it, got a case of stockholm syndrome?
> 
> ...


I've said what I had to say. You won't take anyone else's opinion into consideration even a slight bit so it's kinda pointless. Personally, I enjoy dating, but that's because I don't get hung up on things like this (anymore). I used to have the same mindset as you, but I did have a different attitude. I said to myself, "I know I can't change people, so if someone doesn't want to give me a chance and they aren't 100% sweet and caring about it, I'll just move on and try to talk to someone different." And it worked.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Just Lurking said:


> If it wasn't a good time in her life to date, then why would she go on the date in the first place?
> 
> Also, if you switch positions with her for a moment: If you *were* interested in the person (but had a very busy upcoming schedule), would you tell them _"now isn't a good time to date"_ without adding a _"but..."_ in there?
> 
> It's not an exact science and, again... it's easy in hindsight... Sometimes, you just have to get a feel for it. If there is a 'next time', you'll be wiser to it.


If the situations were reversed and I liked them I'd ask them to wait until I got back. If I didn't like them I'd tell them so. Gently and carefully, but they would be notified if I lost interest or found someone else I liked better.

Next time I'd still take a person at their word and expect them to be honest and up front with me.

Maybe I need a preamble when dating people. I have before actually. Told people "it's okay if you're not into me, just please let me know so I won't go on thinking we're doing good and I'm going to see you again if you don't want to, I don't want to be left to guess what is going on". And they always agree and ask for the same thing. Saddest part is when some of them disappear or lead me on even after having that discussion.

Never flipped out on a person for rejecting me. I suppose after a few bad experiences they all expect it though.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

rymo said:


> I've said what I had to say. You won't take anyone else's opinion into consideration even a slight bit so it's kinda pointless. Personally, I enjoy dating, but that's because I don't get hung up on things like this (anymore). I used to have the same mindset as you, but I did have a different attitude. I said to myself, "I know I can't change people, so if someone doesn't want to give me a chance and they aren't 100% sweet and caring about it, I'll just move on and try to talk to someone different." And it worked.


Oh I take everything into consideration. I just happen to disagree strongly with some peoples opinions. Doesn't mean I didn't consider them.

I know I can't change people unless they want to be changed. I do move on and talk to other people.

I enjoy dating too, when it works.


----------



## rymo (Sep 6, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> Oh I take everything into consideration. I just happen to disagree strongly with some peoples opinions. Doesn't mean I didn't consider them.
> 
> I know I can't change people unless they want to be changed. I do move on and talk to other people.
> 
> I enjoy dating too, when it works.


Excellent


----------



## tbyrfan (Feb 24, 2011)

The OP's responses in this thread are worrisome and honestly a bit frightening.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

These gender discussions usually aren't very constructive. Just a lot of identity issues, personal experiences, obvious biases, etc. They are a bit entertaining though, I suppose.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

tbyrfan said:


> The OP's responses in this thread are worrisome and honestly a bit frightening.


would you please elaborate? I'm curious what your thoughts were.


----------



## Barette (Jan 17, 2012)

tbyrfan said:


> The OP's responses in this thread are worrisome and honestly a bit frightening.


 Given the op's distaste for me it'll seem like I'm fanning the fire when I say this, but tbh I agree... It's kinda worrisome.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

I blame the guy for losing his temper over something so trivial.

I blame the girl, because she sent overly mixed signals. Had she followed the guidelines of her _Non-confrontational Rejection 101_ textbook, *she should've completely cut ties with the guy* right after she sent the "_It's a bad time for me to date_" line. Or, at worse, reply "_I'm too busy, maybe next week_" each time the guy suggests going on a second date. *Anything more than that is stringing him along! *

Adding him on FB and continuing the casual interaction served no purpose, save teasing the guy and giving him false hope.


----------



## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

Probably should have been more blunt to him about the rejection though I've made the same mistake as her in the past and been too open ended in reply when my intention was a clear no. I've learned from it and now make it clear and perhaps she will in future.


----------



## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Just Lurking said:


> _"Now isn't a good time to date"_ was your cue to back off - a very bad sign after a first date. The trip stuff is fluff.


Sometimes people do go on trips though.
Some years ago, I asked a girl out on a date and she said yes, but told she was leaving on vacation the very next day and was right in the middle of packing, so she asked that I call her again when she got back.
But when she got back, she had found a boyfriend on that vacation - one of the friends she went with.
If that was a "no" that I just failed to recognise, then people really ought to reconsider how they go about rejecting someone. But I don't think it's as obvious as some of the girls in this thread make it out to be, and considering the posts in the _"What are you doing to get a boy?"_ thread, I don't think they'd have thought it all that obvious were it a boy instead saying the same thing.


----------



## iAmCodeMonkey (May 23, 2010)

Mr Bacon said:


> I blame the guy for losing his temper over something so trivial.
> 
> I blame the girl, because she sent overly mixed signals. Had she followed the guidelines of her _Non-confrontational Rejection 101_ textbook, *she should've completely cut ties with the guy* right after she sent the "_It's a bad time for me to date_" line. Or, at worse, reply "_I'm too busy, maybe next week_" each time the guy suggests going on a second date. *Anything more than that is stringing him along! *
> 
> Adding him on FB and continuing the casual interaction served no purpose, save teasing the guy and giving him false hope.


*YES.*


----------



## Bbpuff (Sep 1, 2010)

I take the guy's side. The girl shouldn't of lead him on.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Milco said:


> Sometimes people do go on trips though


Sure, trips to Weak Excuse City :lol

Occasionally, a real trip will occur... but the timing is quite convenient, isn't it? What are the odds that she goes on a trip right when you wanna ask her out? Unless she's known to be quite the traveler, they're low.

However, there still isn't anything to lose out of sending a text when she's supposedly back from Hawaii to postpone the date, and she'll have to show her true colors.


> But I don't think it's as obvious as some of the girls in this thread make it out to be, and considering the posts in the _"What are you doing to get a boy?"_ thread, I don't think they'd have thought it all that obvious were it a boy instead saying the same thing.


I think it's pretty obvious. From experience, after being rejected a couple times, you connect the dots.

Anything along the lines of "Not now, but maybe later" when you make advances is to be interpreted as "I'm not attracted."

There's no real drawback for women using this method, and it's the easiest way out. Combine this with women's risk-averse/non-confrontational nature, and these excuses are here to stay.

If we were to reverse the genders, the situation no longer makes sense. A guy wouldn't make up excuses to avoid a date, when he's the one who initially pursued the girl and obtained her digits.


----------



## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

Why do people have to take a side? It sounds like you're drawing a line in the sand and picking out who are your allies and enemies. Why can't people just share their opinion on the issue without getting attacked for disagreeing with you?


----------



## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Mr Bacon said:


> Sure, trips to Weak Excuse City :lol
> 
> Occasionally, a real trip will occur... but the timing is quite convenient, isn't it? What are the odds that she goes on a trip right when you wanna ask her out? Unless she's known to be quite the traveler, they're low.
> 
> ...


Well, I met her through a friend who lived on the same hall as her in the dorms, so unless she really committed to the lie with fake pictures and staying at her parents' place for two weeks, I think she actually went.

But how are people supposed to know without taking context into account? People on here seem to very easily be able to tell these situations with only minimal information to go on - or so they claim to be able to at least.
It just seems kinda paranoid to me to assume any kind of rain check is a rejection, and it would seemingly produce bad results at least in some situations. If it were me, I'd frankly be kinda offended that somebody else had decided what I must have actually meant rather than trust that if I say "sure, but I can't right now so in a bit", I actually meant it.
There are plenty of situations where a guy might string a girl along or be hesitant with making a commitment, so I don't see it as quite as unlikely a situation as you apparently do.


----------



## catcharay (Sep 15, 2011)

The girl should either have avoided all contact or be honest. It just reflects how she deals w the dating game..and its no good. If she was a friend who shared this story w me ill be thinking why did u have to do that to the poor guy. When you behave in a certain way esp w matters of the heart i would8 think that there will be various reactions and feelings..and in this case he wanted basic courtesy


----------



## Shameful (Sep 5, 2014)

Milco said:


> Well, I met her through a friend who lived on the same hall as her in the dorms, so unless she really committed to the lie with fake pictures and staying at her parents' place for two weeks, I think she actually went.
> 
> But how are people supposed to know without taking context into account? People on here seem to very easily be able to tell these situations with only minimal information to go on - or so they claim to be able to at least.
> It just seems kinda paranoid to me to assume any kind of rain check is a rejection, and it would seemingly produce bad results at least in some situations. If it were me, I'd frankly be kinda offended that somebody else had decided what I must have actually meant rather than trust that if I say "sure, but I can't right now so in a bit", I actually meant it.
> There are plenty of situations where a guy might string a girl along or be hesitant with making a commitment, so I don't see it as quite as unlikely a situation as you apparently do.


In your situation she was busy so she asked you if you two could meet up after her trip. In this thread, she said she was busy and made no effort to schedule any other time or suggest meeting when she got back, it was only after he started suggesting it. Basically, it's what I said a few pages ago - don't assume women are idiots. If she is interested and can't make it then she'll suggest another time, she can read her own calendar.

Your situation: yes, but...
This situation: no, because...


----------



## Just Lurking (Feb 8, 2007)

Milco said:


> Well, I met her through a friend who lived on the same hall as her in the dorms, so unless she really committed to the lie with fake pictures and staying at her parents' place for two weeks, I think she actually went.


Lies and excuses don't have to be present for something to end in rejection.


----------



## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Shameful said:


> In your situation she was busy so she asked you if you two could meet up after her trip. In this thread, she said she was busy and made no effort to schedule any other time or suggest meeting when she got back, it was only after he started suggesting it. Basically, it's what I said a few pages ago - don't assume women are idiots. If she is interested and can't make it then she'll suggest another time, she can read her own calendar.


But she did say yes when he suggested it - or so we are lead to believe.
When one person asks another out on a date, it's also one person who takes the initiative while the other makes no effort to schedule anything, but we (most of us) still wouldn't say that any "yes" to go out on a date is null because of that.
That's not to say that there can't be cues in the situation that say she probably isn't actually interested, but then the answer is based on those rather than an automatic, general answer.
And some girls on here have written that guys should always pay for the first date because the girl has no interest in the guy at first and only he is interested in her. I do disagree with that attitude, but (leaving alone for a moment whether you should ever date girls who see it like that), it does make things more complicated and means she won't necessarily start to find alternative times for the date.

If you don't want to go out with somebody, it's really not that difficult to say "No, I'm sorry." Or if you say yes at first and later change your mind, or if you get pressured into saying yes and don't really want to, you can quietly cut off contact (at least in cases like OP's) and leave it be.
You of course don't owe somebody a date for having said yes, but I do think reasonable honesty is to be expected.



Just Lurking said:


> Lies and excuses don't have to be present for something to end in rejection.


No, of course not.
But my point was that I disagree with those in this thread who suggest it's a very obvious rejection that people just ignore.


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Milco said:


> Well, I met her through a friend who lived on the same hall as her in the dorms, so unless she really committed to the lie with fake pictures and staying at her parents' place for two weeks, I think she actually went.
> 
> But how are people supposed to know without taking context into account? People on here seem to very easily be able to tell these situations with only minimal information to go on - or so they claim to be able to at least.


In your case she wasn't lying. Though she might've been lying about the boyfriend, unless you've seen proof of the contrary.

Generally speaking, you can never tell for sure. You can just draw preliminary conclusions based on past experiences, because past behavior is an indicator of future behavior.

Which is why it pays to be a little persistent, while not getting too emotionally invested and allowing oneself to be strung along.


> It just seems kinda paranoid to me to assume any kind of rain check is a rejection, and it would seemingly produce bad results at least in some situations. If it were me, I'd frankly be kinda offended that somebody else had decided what I must have actually meant rather than trust that if I say "sure, but I can't right now so in a bit", I actually meant it.


If girls do get offended when guys make these kinds of assumptions, then their own boomerang is coming back to hit them in the face. If women hadn't been so manipulative with their fake excuses to begin with, we wouldn't be have had to adapt by drawing early conclusions from their statements.


> There are plenty of situations where a guy might string a girl along or be hesitant with making a commitment, so I don't see it as quite as unlikely a situation as you apparently do.


Yeah, when you put it that way, I know a couple guys who do give the impression they want to commit by sharing intimate moments, while never concretely committing seriously.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Barette said:


> Given the op's distaste for me it'll seem like I'm fanning the fire when I say this, but tbh I agree... It's kinda worrisome.


I don't have distaste for _you_. Just for the way you talked down to me in a few posts. I have SA for multiple reasons, but primarily because of over a decade of merciless bullying, verbal physical and sexual. So when I'm on a support site and someone starts insulting me, putting words in my mouth I never said, ridiculing me or talking to me in condescending fashion, that kind of triggers me and I will respond with a level of rudeness generally out of proportion to what they wrote. I feel like I'm being bullied again and lash out like I wish I had done more of back then. Now I'm strong enough to stand up for myself but I do it in all the wrong ways because I don't have much practice.

I don't take what people say on here personally as there would be no point in doing so. I've enjoyed writing with you and everyone else. I enjoy some arguing too. A poster on the Cracked site called it "Anger Vitamins" haha. A welcome distraction from a frustrating life.

Not sure what specifically you found worrisome, but I am curious. Maybe you can help me see something I'm not seeing that can lead to positive change. All of us on here have something wrong with us we can work on. I'm open to constructive criticism.


----------



## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Mr Bacon said:


> Which is why it pays to be a little persistent, while not getting too emotionally invested and allowing oneself to be strung along.


I would absolutely agree with that.
Trying to not get your hopes up too much too fast is difficult when there's someone you quite like, but there are many ways to potentially get hurt.



Mr Bacon said:


> If girls do get offended when guys make these kinds of assumptions, then their own boomerang is coming back to hit them in the face.


I think it's different girls though. All people are prone to give white lies and dodge confrontation of course, but at least the girls I've talked to have often said they don't really like all the mental games of dating and would prefer if things could just be kept honest and open.
It might be an age thing as well though, as well as a culture thing. I think many people get more able to be open about these things as they get into their mid/late 20s.
It's not even that people have any kind of responsibility to tell a potential date if they find somebody else they like more. But when that date calls again, best to let them know.

But just for the record... 
In OPs case, the guy wrote an upset message to the girl simply from things he could see on her facebook.
I can understand being upset and disappointed, but writing a message like that will not likely achieve anything positive. I think it's a fair question to want to ask if she was being honest when she said it was a bad time or whether that was just her way of rejecting him, but honestly, she probably isn't going to answer that.
And any kind of accusation or demand that she had said something when she found somebody else is wrong. Changing her facebook status is a way of telling him, and even that isn't something she morally had to do. But to me, that's when the rejection becomes clear - not when she agreed to date more, but only at a later time.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

George McFly said:


> Why do people have to take a side? It sounds like you're drawing a line in the sand and picking out who are your allies and enemies. Why can't people just share their opinion on the issue without getting attacked for disagreeing with you?


They don't have to, but I'm asking them to, just to see which they would pick. You're free to abstain of course.

I'll only 'attack' a person if they are rude to me unprovoked.

People on here aren't allies or enemies, they're just people to discuss things with.

An ally or enemy would be someone in my personal life either helping me or hurting me.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Shameful said:


> In your situation she was busy so she asked you if you two could meet up after her trip. In this thread, she said she was busy and made no effort to schedule any other time or suggest meeting when she got back, it was only after he started suggesting it. Basically, it's what I said a few pages ago - don't assume women are idiots. If she is interested and can't make it then she'll suggest another time, she can read her own calendar.
> 
> Your situation: yes, but...
> This situation: no, because...


They certainly didn't assume she was an idiot. Which is what you're suggesting here.

You're pretty much saying guys are supposed to guess what women are thinking and react accordingly with some kind of accuracy.

So if a woman says she's going to be busy and doesn't right then plan another time to see him, that automatically means she's not interested in the guy? 100% of the time? See how flawed your thinking is?


----------



## darkhoboelf (Mar 3, 2013)

Going off of your clearly biased explanation of the even,I would take your side.I would also tell you to keep trying until you find the right person.Good luck,"the guy".


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

darkhoboelf said:


> Going off of your clearly biased explanation of the even,I would take your side.I would also tell you to keep trying until you find the right person.Good luck,"the guy".


I didn't leave anything pertinent out, exaggerate, or make anything up, or put my personal spin on it. I simply stated what happened. Not sure how it's 'clearly biased'

If you ran into this woman and asked her what happened, she'd probably say the exact same details


----------



## truant (Jul 4, 2014)

Based on what you've provided, this seems more like a difference in communication style than one person being uncivil to another. I'm not going to pick a side in a misunderstanding.

The girl went on a few dates, was undecided and presumed that she would still be undecided by the time she got back from her trip. She probably tells anyone that she likes to add her on Facebook, as many people do. Her non-committal "now is a bad time to date" is intended to communicate that she hasn't yet been sold on the idea of dating the "friend", which is how most people would interpret it. It could serve, as many others have noted, as a polite let-down, but I tend to think that the matter just wasn't that clearly resolved in her own mind and she was probably still weighing her options at that point.

Then something happened on a date in between this conversation and her trip that helped her make up her mind. She updates her Facebook status and assumes, as many people would, that the "friend" would understand based on the status that the matter is now closed. Had this happened to me, I wouldn't have been outraged or offended, since the logic of her actions is not particularly opaque. But that may be because I'm used to being indirect in my communications.

The "friend" is upset because she has gone about the whole thing in a way that he wouldn't. In his mind, all communication should be clear and direct to avoid misunderstanding, as has happened in this case; he places a high value on transparency, even if it leads to confrontation. He needs to know "where he stands". The girl places a high value on avoiding unnecessary confrontations and emotional upset. In her mind, her intentions _are_ being clearly, albeit indirectly, communicated, so she is probably bewildered by the intensity of his reaction when _she has gone out of her way to make her rejection as painless as possible_.

I think you probably both had the best of intentions, but diametrically opposed communication styles and different priorities. I just don't see a relationship like that working out in the long run.


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 13, 2005)

truant said:


> The "friend" is upset because she has gone about the whole thing in a way that he wouldn't. In his mind, all communication should be clear and direct to avoid misunderstanding, as has happened in this case; he places a high value on transparency, even if it leads to confrontation. He needs to know "where he stands". The girl places a high value on avoiding unnecessary confrontations and emotional upset. In her mind, her intentions _are_ being clearly, albeit indirectly, communicated, so she is probably bewildered by the intensity of his reaction when _she has gone out of her way to make her rejection as painless as possible_.
> 
> I think you probably both had the best of intentions, but diametrically opposed communication styles and different priorities. I just don't see a relationship like that working out in the long run.


All you really need to do here is reframe it in your more abstract terms. You can choose to pick a side of which communication style and priorities is better or which communication style you prefer or value more.

Abstraction can be nice in that it helps to provide more clarity by removing details. But, the detail of picking a side is a major point of the thread. So, abstracting away details to enhance the spirit of mediation is irrelevant to the thread.

In other words, flame on, truant. Flame on.

Give in to your anger.

Take a note from Jerry:






No more detachment, truant. Pick a side. Unleash that anger deep within.


----------



## McFly (Jul 15, 2014)

Cerberus said:


>


Kramer, lol.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

That's a well spoken, well reasoned reply Truant, so thank you. Maybe nobody was wrong or did anything bad, it was just contrasting styles misunderstanding each other.

I do think it could have worked out if they had gotten to know each other better, that they had enough in common and were nice enough people, but that she just didn't feel the spark of chemistry towards him when they met, even if she did compliment on his looks and tell him she had a good time.


----------



## photorealisticotakuman (May 8, 2013)

Making the guy wait and stringing him along was the girl's wrong. Unfortunately, the girl shows behaviour that, very frequently, happens in dating. The guy expected her to at least cut the line of wait for him earlier on, but she did what most people unfortunately do.

I think the guy must learn to avoid situations like this. The guy should have said something along the lines of " I'll wait for you to come back because I have interest in you, *but maybe you might also meet someone who you like more than me. I don't want you to feel dragged behind by me because we aren't even dating, so I will start seeing other people myself. Maybe if we meet again and both single, we can pick up where we left of,,sounds cool? *"

Than they could continue some friendly talk on Facebook. When she gets in the relationship with the other guy, he can be cool about it because he was kind of seeing other people himself anyways or he wasn't actually waiting for her anyway.

(i think I should take my own advice )


----------



## Mr Bacon (Mar 10, 2012)

Milco said:


> It might be an age thing as well though, as well as a culture thing. I think many people get more able to be open about these things as they get into their mid/late 20s.


Yea, that's possible. I don't have too many single acquaintances in their late 20s/early 30s, so I wouldn't know.


> I can understand being upset and disappointed, but writing a message like that will not likely achieve anything positive. I think it's a fair question to want to ask she was being honest when she said it was a bad time or whether that was just her way of rejecting him, but honestly, she probably isn't going to answer that.
> And any kind of accusation or demand that she had said something when she found somebody else is wrong. Changing her facebook status is a way of telling him, and even that isn't something she morally had to do. But to me, that's when the rejection becomes clear - not when she agreed to date more, but only at a later time.


Definitely, nothing ever comes out of getting annoyed at a girl and throwing a tantrum. Sending her a message wasn't useful.

The rejection was indeed made 100% clear when she updated her status. Where we differ in our opinion is that you keep an open mind about the attraction she feels towards the guy when she told him about the trip, while I lean on the "75% chances of implied rejection" prediction.


----------



## Milco (Dec 12, 2009)

Mr Bacon said:


> Where we differ in our opinion is that you keep an open mind about the attraction she feels towards the guy when she told him about the trip, while I lean on the "75% chances of implied rejection" prediction.


----------



## probably offline (Oct 8, 2012)

Just Lurking said:


> If it wasn't a good time in her life to date, then why would she go on the date in the first place?
> 
> Also, if you switch positions with her for a moment: If you *were* interested in the person (but had a very busy upcoming schedule), would you tell them _"now isn't a good time to date"_ without adding a _"but..."_ in there?


I was thinking the same thing. If I was on a date with someone and enjoyed the date, knowing that I would have to leave town for a month, I wouldn't have put it that way lol. I would've made sure that he knew that I was excited about seeing him again, but that I had to go away for a little while. It was a rejection, which he didn't pick up on. Sadly she wasn't assertive enough to tell him "sorry, I'm not interested", to clarify her disinterest, instead of giving the trip as an excuse to get away from the situation. Not a smart move.

These are just assumptions, though. I don't know her side of the story and the reasons for why she said the things she did.


----------



## andy0128 (Dec 19, 2003)

mjkittredge said:


> You didn't really pick a side, you just sort of waffled there. Stop riding the fence, whose side are you on, the girls or the guys?
> 
> The point I was making to others was, she led him on, didn't indicate she lost interest, in fact indicated the opposite - that she was still available and interested. And that's where the feeling of betrayal comes in. The saying "Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining" applies here.
> 
> ...


I came to this thread mainly to diffuse a conflict that had been reported. I then replied with my initial impressions of the situation. Unfortunately, I don't always have time to write chapters in response to each topic.

People aren't completely honest 100% of the time. Some people will not give you the honesty you expect, because they are cowards or they feel the truth will be too painful and would rather find another way to let the person down gently. It sounds like you want a person who is completely upfront and open about their feelings and if that's the case it is probably a good thing that this relationship hasn't gone any further.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

Mr Bacon said:


> Yea, that's possible. I don't have too many single acquaintances in their late 20s/early 30s, so I wouldn't know.
> 
> Definitely, nothing ever comes out of getting annoyed at a girl and throwing a tantrum. Sending her a message wasn't useful.
> 
> The rejection was indeed made 100% clear when she updated her status. Where we differ in our opinion is that you keep an open mind about the attraction she feels towards the guy when she told him about the trip, while I lean on the "75% chances of implied rejection" prediction.


Nobody threw a 'tantrum' that's interesting choice of language you use. Maybe ESL and you're not sure what that word means. And maybe sending a message was helpful as far as venting out frustration.


----------



## mjkittredge (Sep 8, 2012)

andy0128 said:


> I came to this thread mainly to diffuse a conflict that had been reported. I then replied with my initial impressions of the situation. Unfortunately, I don't always have time to write chapters in response to each topic.
> 
> People aren't completely honest 100% of the time. Some people will not give you the honesty you expect, because they are cowards or they feel the truth will be too painful and would rather find another way to let the person down gently. It sounds like you want a person who is completely upfront and open about their feelings and if that's the case it is probably a good thing that this relationship hasn't gone any further.


I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to write 'chapters'. Thank you for your expanded response.

What's the point of post deletion when people are arguing? I mean, we already saw what we wrote to each other, it doesn't delete it from our memory. Did anyone here say something so disturbing it would scar the other members by reading it? I feel like there are not clear guidelines for this and that leads to a lot of confusion.

I'd rather see them left up so people can continue their argument to one of 2 conclusions

1. They get over it quickly and apologize or ignore each other

2. They continue their argument to the point of absurdity and run out of obstinate energy & interest to continue. Popcorn sales increase


----------



## Stilla (May 13, 2009)

mjkittredge said:


> I didn't leave anything pertinent out, exaggerate, or make anything up, or put my personal spin on it. I simply stated what happened. Not sure how it's 'clearly biased'
> 
> If you ran into this woman and asked her what happened, she'd probably say the exact same details


I guess for me I'm having trouble connecting the dots that if she did have a good time at the date as is stated in the OP as to why she wouldn't have chosen to be with that guy rather than the one she decided on. I feel maybe that's proof some signs have been misread.

I feel the reason to why this situation is a problem is because you're stuck on how she SHOULD have acted according to you, and feeling that someone should act a certain way when they don't just creates frustration. Yes it would have been nice if she could have been more direct about her feelings towards you but sometimes people don't do what we want. Better to just accept it rather than letting it get to you.


----------

