# Sick and Tired of Religion



## Tetragammon

Does anyone else feel this way? I am beyond sick and tired of encountering religion in all forms. No matter how much I isolate myself, or how hard I try to avoid venues and situations where religion would come up, it still appears everywhere. There's no escaping it. I can't stand the bigotry, hatred and judgment. But somehow _I'm the weird one_ for thinking this way.


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## Ominous Indeed

If it bothers you that much considered moving to a non-religious country? Or maybe a less religious state?


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## SFC01

Tetragammon said:


> Does anyone else feel this way? I am beyond sick and tired of encountering religion in all forms. No matter how much I isolate myself, or how hard I try to avoid venues and situations where religion would come up, it still appears everywhere. There's no escaping it. I can't stand the bigotry, hatred and judgment. But somehow _I'm the weird one_ for thinking this way.


We'll have you in England mate !! bar a few weird people, no one gives a **** about religion overhere. You dont even have to be religious (or pretend to be to) to have a fair shot of becoming PM.

I really do find it strange how strong religion seems to be this day an age in the states


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## JohnDoe26

Tetragammon said:


> Does anyone else feel this way? I am beyond sick and tired of encountering religion in all forms. No matter how much I isolate myself, or how hard I try to avoid venues and situations where religion would come up, it still appears everywhere. There's no escaping it. I can't stand the bigotry, hatred and judgment. But somehow _I'm the weird one_ for thinking this way.


I assume the religious people you're encountering are Christians. Mind if I ask what denomination or church you tend to keep encountering?


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## Tetragammon

Ominous Indeed said:


> If it bothers you that much considered moving to a non-religious country? Or maybe a less religious state?


I'd love to... but I'm stuck here for now.



SFC01 said:


> I really do find it strange how strong religion seems to be this day an age in the states


Exactly... Sometimes I feel like the only one who finds religion to be ridiculous. Maybe I just haven't found the right crowd.



JohnDoe26 said:


> I assume the religious people you're encountering are Christians. Mind if I ask what denomination or church you tend to keep encountering?


I basically live in the middle of the "Morridor" which has the highest concentration of Mormons anywhere in the world. Just look at the graphic posted above; Utah is like the third-most religious state in the country. It's irritating; I've had strangers just assume I'm Mormon before. Tons of people have religious decorations around their homes and on their cars. And the Mormon religion gets onto the news all the freaking time, disproportionately more than any other religion.

I guess it doesn't help that my parents are Mormon. They're not active but they still pray over meals and stuff. I know it's their choice but it still bothers me that they're so superstitious and gullible.


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## Ali999

I don't understand what you're saying. How can someone's belief bother you?unless they constantly force it upon you.

Religion on a personal level, commands us to build a relationship with god. We humans are dependant and some of us feel the need to strengthen our relationship with a supreme being. Therefore on a personal level we are commanded to fast, pray, avoid sins in order to maintain that level of obedience to God. By doing so, we feel more spiritual. Therefore why should this bother anyone at all? If it clearly is teaching us tolerance, humity, servitude and compassion.

Religion on a social level, commands us to maintain the best of morals and help society in general. For example in Islam, giving charity to the poor is compulsory. We are also encouraged to treat orphans with care ( as there is a whole chapter in quran dedicated to the orphans). 

To be honest, I'm not surprised why everyone hates religion. You're all forming an opinion based on how the media wants you to think. If you tally all the troubles/conflicts caused in this world, you can safely assume that most of it was not because of religion.


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## Milco

Ali999 said:


> If it clearly is teaching us tolerance, humity, servitude and compassion.


I don't think that many people care if others are only privately religious and it only causes them to have more tolerance, humility and compassion.
Often times though, that's really not the case.



Ali999 said:


> Religion on a social level, commands us to maintain the best of morals and help society in general.


Religion on a societal level rather contradicts the above about tolerance and compassion.
Giving to charity and caring for the needy is obviously fine, but when religions want to 'guide'/control people's behaviour, how they can dress, what they can say, the laws and people's sexuality, it obviously has nothing to do with tolerance or compassion.


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## Tetragammon

Ali999 said:


> I don't understand what you're saying. How can someone's belief bother you?unless they constantly force it upon you.
> 
> Religion on a personal level, commands us to build a relationship with god. We humans are dependant and some of us feel the need to strengthen our relationship with a supreme being. Therefore on a personal level we are commanded to fast, pray, avoid sins in order to maintain that level of obedience to God. By doing so, we feel more spiritual. Therefore why should this bother anyone at all? If it clearly is teaching us tolerance, humity, servitude and compassion.
> 
> Religion on a social level, commands us to maintain the best of morals and help society in general. For example in Islam, giving charity to the poor is compulsory. We are also encouraged to treat orphans with care ( as there is a whole chapter in quran dedicated to the orphans).
> 
> To be honest, I'm not surprised why everyone hates religion. You're all forming an opinion based on how the media wants you to think. If you tally all the troubles/conflicts caused in this world, you can safely assume that most of it was not because of religion.


Wow. Really? :sigh

First, this is the Agnostic and Atheist Support forum -- *this is not a place for debate.* I purposefully posted my thread in this forum because the last thing I need is self-righteous believers like you charging in here and telling me how wrong I am. Responses like yours are PRECISELY why I so vehemently hate religion. *You are blind.* You can't even conceive of the possibility of someone having had a negative experience with religion. It's been all rainbows and sunshine for you, so you arrogantly assume it must be the same for everyone. And not only that, but you go on to presume that my "opinion" is based on how the media wants me to think. Really? I mean, I don't even. Are you that arrogant and ignorant?

Let me educate you, then. I was raised in an oppressive, fundamentalist Christian cult. _Those beliefs were forced on me, for more than 20 years!_ And the penalties for disbelief were so severe that I was literally afraid of my own feelings for decades. I was taught that to leave the "faith" was a "sin" worse than genocide. I was also taught that I was never good enough on my own, that I needed Jesus and "church authority" to be saved. Perfectionism was the norm and the expectation in the culture in which I was brought up. And it created the perfect environment in me for severe depression and anxiety. _Religion brought me here._

I have seen the true face of your "benign" religions and they are the root of a great many evils: Families torn apart by differences in belief. Children kicked out of their homes and disowned by zealous parents just because they don't believe. Husbands and wives in bitter divorce battles just because of differences in beliefs. Young and unprepared mothers demonized by large groups because of their decisions to abort fetuses in the earliest stage of pregnancy. LGBTQ teens committing suicide in record numbers because they are so marginalized by the antiquated and bigoted beliefs of others. Individuals devolving into physically and sexually predatory behavior thanks to severely repressive "beliefs." Open your ****ing eyes; the evils of religion are many and serious.

"Obedience to God" is the biggest and most elaborate scam in the history of our species. Religion has evolved to keep people passive and docile. Absolute, unquestioning obedience to a deity makes people far less likely to question any other form of authority. And we certainly do NOT need religion to "maintain the best of morals and help society in general." Have you even read the Bible? I mean the whole thing, cover-to-cover, not just the verses cherry-picked by your bishop, pastor or priest. _Surprise-surprise, I have._ According to the Bible, God is fine with slavery, incest, genocide and rape. He's cool with stoning people to death just because they don't believe, or because they have sex before marriage. Great morals there, huh? The same goes for the Quran. It's all about brainwashing on a meta level, carefully designed and maintained in such a way as to keep the 'little people' paying their tithes so the leadership gets rich on the sweat and blood of their "flock." The Pope commands Catholics to feed the poor, as he sits in a gilded palace with all his finery and wealth.

OPEN YOUR EYES.


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## SFC01

Ali999 said:


> If you tally all the troubles/conflicts caused in this world, you can safely assume that most of it was not because of religion.


Do you think? Have you tried to tally it?

I dont know the answer but I think you are greatly understimating religions part in conflict during human history.

If I was a US citizen I would be disgusted by the fact that religion plays such a huge role in many things, including presidential elections. Something so ridiculous and backward has no right to be given the special status it is in the modern world.

I`m happy people find joy, comfort etc in it, thats all good, but its isn't reality in any way shape or form so should be treated as such. I`m so glad that the UK is now predominantly a secular country, lets hope the dying embers over here are finally put out.


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## That Random Guy

*Kind of.*

People will continue to believe what they want to believe. It's kind of expected here than in most other forums, but I wouldn't be surprised.

My anguish on here is the people who continuously put up "NoFap" threads.

I think between that and religion--for whatever reason--it receives more frequent hits than most would like.

I will never understand the mass obsession with that "activity". Is it relevant through some cases? Sure. :roll

Is it necessary to have one thread featuring that aimless discussion reappear every other week? No, I surely don't think so.

And yet my friend, here we are. Having to see those types of threads resurface for no good reason truly causes me anger.

IMO, it's distasteful. We can't do anything about it though. Can only ignore... :blank


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## SFC01

That Random Guy said:


> Having to see those types of threads resurface for no good reason truly causes me anger.


oh dear, watch out everyone :grin2:

agree on the no fap bull**** though


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## TheWelshOne

Ali999 said:


> I don't understand what you're saying. How can someone's belief bother you?unless they constantly force it upon you.
> 
> Religion on a personal level, commands us to build a relationship with god. We humans are dependant and some of us feel the need to strengthen our relationship with a supreme being. Therefore on a personal level we are commanded to fast, pray, avoid sins in order to maintain that level of obedience to God. By doing so, we feel more spiritual. Therefore why should this bother anyone at all? If it clearly is teaching us tolerance, humity, servitude and compassion.
> 
> Religion on a social level, commands us to maintain the best of morals and help society in general. For example in Islam, giving charity to the poor is compulsory. We are also encouraged to treat orphans with care ( as there is a whole chapter in quran dedicated to the orphans).
> 
> To be honest, I'm not surprised why everyone hates religion. You're all forming an opinion based on how the media wants you to think. If you tally all the troubles/conflicts caused in this world, you can safely assume that most of it was not because of religion.


I don't want to jump on you because I don't feel like you should be attacked, but with all due respect a lot of religious people on this forum are very vocal about their beliefs, going so far as to shame those who don't follow the same religion. There's only so much 'you're all going to hell' people can take.

I'm perfectly happy with people having a religion, whatever that entails. I'm not happy with being judged by them for who I am.


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## Kandice

I consider myself Christian, but I like coming to this subthread because I don't like how people push their opinions on me. It makes me feel like people can't accept me for who I am and therefore it's their duty to try and change me. My family and some of my friend's religious "theories" are not aligned to how I feel about my religion. I'm thinking you might feel the same way and probably worse because you don't accept that religion at all. And you are surrounded by people trying to make you into someone _they_ want you to be.

It's impossible to escape religion completely and plus don't you agree that people of different faiths should be allowed to practice what they believe without hurting or harassing other people? I feel like the best thing you can do is try to get away from the people you are surrounded by (like your family). That's how I got away from it. But of course, you will still encounter people trying to push it on you. I had strangers come up to me and give me a handmade cross or say something religious to me when they don't even know me (its probably because I work in retail and they see me everyday so I'm obligated to be nice to them lol). My hope is that if you can turn down these types of advances from strangers politely, then they will be able to deliver the same respect to you. If someone can't accept your beliefs at this point then they're outright harassing you, which I don't know what you can do at that point aside from calling them out on it. Sorry you have to deal with these types of people. They use fear, guilt, and judgement to control people.


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## Ali999

Tetragammon said:


> Ali999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand what you're saying. How can someone's belief bother you?unless they constantly force it upon you.
> 
> Religion on a personal level, commands us to build a relationship with god. We humans are dependant and some of us feel the need to strengthen our relationship with a supreme being. Therefore on a personal level we are commanded to fast, pray, avoid sins in order to maintain that level of obedience to God. By doing so, we feel more spiritual. Therefore why should this bother anyone at all? If it clearly is teaching us tolerance, humity, servitude and compassion.
> 
> Religion on a social level, commands us to maintain the best of morals and help society in general. For example in Islam, giving charity to the poor is compulsory. We are also encouraged to treat orphans with care ( as there is a whole chapter in quran dedicated to the orphans).
> 
> To be honest, I'm not surprised why everyone hates religion. You're all forming an opinion based on how the media wants you to think. If you tally all the troubles/conflicts caused in this world, you can safely assume that most of it was not because of religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, this is the Agnostic and Atheist Support forum -- *this is not a place for debate.* I purposefully posted my thread in this forum because the last thing I need is self-righteous believers like you charging in here and telling me how wrong I am. Responses like yours are PRECISELY why I so vehemently hate religion. *You are blind.* You can't even conceive of the possibility of someone having had a negative experience with religion. It's been all rainbows and sunshine for you, so you arrogantly assume it must be the same for everyone. And not only that, but you go on to presume that my "opinion" is based on how the media wants me to think. Really? I mean, I don't even. Are you that arrogant and ignorant?
> 
> Let me educate you, then. I was raised in an oppressive, fundamentalist Christian cult. _Those beliefs were forced on me, for more than 20 years!_ And the penalties for disbelief were so severe that I was literally afraid of my own feelings for decades. I was taught that to leave the "faith" was a "sin" worse than genocide. I was also taught that I was never good enough on my own, that I needed Jesus and "church authority" to be saved. Perfectionism was the norm and the expectation in the culture in which I was brought up. And it created the perfect environment in me for severe depression and anxiety. _Religion brought me here._
> 
> I have seen the true face of your "benign" religions and they are the root of a great many evils: Families torn apart by differences in belief. Children kicked out of their homes and disowned by zealous parents just because they don't believe. Husbands and wives in bitter divorce battles just because of differences in beliefs. Young and unprepared mothers demonized by large groups because of their decisions to abort fetuses in the earliest stage of pregnancy. LGBTQ teens committing suicide in record numbers because they are so marginalized by the antiquated and bigoted beliefs of others. Individuals devolving into physically and sexually predatory behavior thanks to severely repressive "beliefs." Open your ****ing eyes; the evils of religion are many and serious.
> 
> "Obedience to God" is the biggest and most elaborate scam in the history of our species. Religion has evolved to keep people passive and docile. Absolute, unquestioning obedience to a deity makes people far less likely to question any other form of authority. And we certainly do NOT need religion to "maintain the best of morals and help society in general." Have you even read the Bible? I mean the whole thing, cover-to-cover, not just the verses cherry-picked by your bishop, pastor or priest. _Surprise-surprise, I have._ According to the Bible, God is fine with slavery, incest, genocide and rape. He's cool with stoning people to death just because they don't believe, or because they have sex before marriage. Great morals there, huh? The same goes for the Quran. It's all about brainwashing on a meta level, carefully designed and maintained in such a way as to keep the 'little people' paying their tithes so the leadership gets rich on the sweat and blood of their "flock." The Pope commands Catholics to feed the poor, as he sits in a gilded palace with all his finery and wealth.
> 
> OPEN YOUR EYES.
Click to expand...

Firstly sorry for sounding aggressive because that was not my intention. Anways I'm Muslim so I can't talk about Christianity.

I respect your decision and it seems as if you went through some rough times. But you're taking your experience with a limited amount of crazy Christians you encountered and basing your view on that.

In Islam it is important to never judge the religion by looking at ignorant people who mix culture with religion. Also don't look at countries like Saudia Arabia to form your opinion on Islam. Because majority of these countries have their own laws added such as (women can't drive etc).

I've grown up in Pakistan and majority of the people there are uneducated and haven't even finished highschool let alone having studied Islamic history/Quran etc.... I used to think that religious people are intolerant too (when I saw how backward the Pakistani culture in some areas).

But as I started to educate myself and read Quran(with proper translation and study) I started to realize how people have taken their own desires over what religion teaches.I realized that there are numerous verses in the Quran which tell us that it is okay for others to disbelieve as it is their own loss. I also encountered a famous verse of "there is no compulsion in religion".

But yeah to believe in religion you really have to study historical texts and critically analyze it. You can't look at other people's personal problems and say that "this is why I don't believe religion".

Well Quran already tells us to not marry those who don't believe in God/religion, if it is going to make us divorce. And these marriage problems are personal tbh. I don't think you have a point.

Islam had always meant to abolish slavery, if you study the history of Arabia. Due to the context of that time it was not possible to instantly abolish it. Many slaves were taken away from their homes and family, and freeing them all of a sudden would of been worse for them in terms of 'who will look after them?' ' their financial circumstances?. Therefore there were quranic verses which gives rights to the slaves, ie "they should be given a salary", "they should have the right to be eduacted", They should not be treated as a commodity" etc..

But anyways I don't have time to debate. Also this is not the best place to debate as this is an atheist support forum. I apologize If I offended you at any point. I respect you for your opinion.


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## Ali999

I don't want to jump on you because I don't feel like you should be attacked, but with all due respect a lot of religious people on this forum are very vocal about their beliefs, going so far as to shame those who don't follow the same religion. There's only so much 'you're all going to hell' people can take.

I'm perfectly happy with people having a religion, whatever that entails. I'm not happy with being judged by them for who I am.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I actually realized this forum is to support atheists. I feel I am doing the opposite lol.


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## That Random Guy

*!*



SFC01 said:


> oh dear, watch out everyone :grin2:
> 
> agree on the no fap bull**** though


I wanted to use another word, but my brain wasn't putting it out. :|

'Annoying' is an understatement, if I'm being honest.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so.


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## a degree of freedom

Tetragammon said:


> Does anyone else feel this way? I am beyond sick and tired of encountering religion in all forms. No matter how much I isolate myself, or how hard I try to avoid venues and situations where religion would come up, it still appears everywhere. There's no escaping it. I can't stand the bigotry, hatred and judgment. But somehow _I'm the weird one_ for thinking this way.


You're not weird. It's brave to stand up for yourself unashamed of your difference. Like others say, it's common for religion to be much more in the background in different places. If you get weird looks, think of them like people from Oregon who become agitated contemplating the idea of pumping their own gas like it's completely foreign or a disgusting practice. Stand your ground, and you can be one of those that breaks their image of what normal means. There's some pleasure in defying people's expectations and making them exercise their minds or their cover-up operations, in challenging them, in knowing that perhaps deep down they recognize your strength whether or not they know what to do with it. Show kindness to others, that they may be confused that kindness may flourish outside religiosity. Let your freedom from them let you be free to embrace yourself. Someone must lead, so why not you?


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## UKguy

SFC01 said:


> We'll have you in England mate !! bar a few weird people, *no one gives a **** about religion overhere*. You dont even have to be religious (or pretend to be to) to have a fair shot of becoming PM.
> 
> I really do find it strange how strong religion seems to be this day an age in the states


Don't kid yourself mate... there are loads of religious nuts it is just they are less vocal about it (generally), though not necessarily less influential. For example we still have Bishops in the house of lords and well need I mention where Tony Blair and his beliefs led the country. I believe Theresa May is another bible basher.

And then the is the 'issue' of Islam - those that argue "islamification" on one side and those that scream "islamophobia"in response. For example bigotry and religion played a significant part in the London mayor election campaigns IIRC.


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## Tetragammon

That Random Guy said:


> My anguish on here is the people who continuously put up "NoFap" threads.


I agree, the NoFap bull**** is very annoying. And lots of it is rooted in religious beliefs. The religion of my youth considered masturbation to be a dire "sin," while totally ignoring the scientifically-proven fact that sexual repression is very dangerous to our emotional and mental health.

@senkora

Thanks. Logically I know that religion is what it is, and it's not going away any time soon. I know I just have to deal with it. I'm very comfortable with where I'm at -- it's everyone else that bothers me. It just gets too frustrating sometimes, feeling like I'm in a minority of rational people on this planet. But I also know that indoctrination is a very powerful thing.


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## Gorgoroth9

I'm presently annoyed that most of my friends believe in ghosts. Freaking adults. 

I know I should humor them, but no, I believe in science and empirical reasoning. The Enlightenment was kind of a big deal. There is no evidence for this dumb crap. But I'm outnumbered so people just think I'm spiritually out of touch telling me 'maybe there are just some things that can't be explained.'

So annoying. As if a lack of explanation were in itself proof of something absurd and improbable. I kind of have to hold my tongue for the most part because it's a cultural issue in my community. Lots of people believe in this stuff. Don't want to rain on their parade while they're commemorating lost loved-ones, but on the inside, cringe-levels are rising lol.

Just got a social media post that blew up from a ghost-hunting event where people are claiming to see a face in the smoke *facepalm*


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## SFC01

UKguy said:


> Don't kid yourself mate... there are loads of religious nuts it is just they are less vocal about it (generally), though not necessarily less influential. For example we still have Bishops in the house of lords and well need I mention where Tony Blair and his beliefs led the country. I believe Theresa May is another bible basher.
> 
> And then the is the 'issue' of Islam - those that argue "islamification" on one side and those that scream "islamophobia"in response. For example bigotry and religion played a significant part in the London mayor election campaigns IIRC.


Yes, May was the daughter of a vicar I think.

I should clarify, the traditional religions of the UK, I believe they are dying out - there was a survey done by Richard Dawkins regarding that last census, and he found that a great deal of people who put themselves down as C of E for example, were not actually believers anyway.

Of course, there are still a few out there, along with the ethnic populations.

I'm still certain that being an athiest wouldn't even come into play in general elections.


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## Omni-slash

Tetragammon said:


> I agree, the NoFap bull**** is very annoying. And lots of it is rooted in religious beliefs. The religion of my youth considered masturbation to be a dire "sin," while totally ignoring the scientifically-proven fact that sexual repression is very dangerous to our emotional and mental health.


How many women have you slept with?


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## Tetragammon

Siegfried said:


> How many women have you slept with?


Straight out of left field, eh? What's that got to do with anything? I'm in full support of sex before marriage if that's what you're getting at.


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## iAmCodeMonkey

opcorn


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## versikk

replyin to sub


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## Rains

Certain ones yeah. I spent the entire weekend watching youtube videos on the evolution of **** sapiens, and there were tonnes of creationists in there leaving disapproving comments. And it's not like they were actually addressing or disputing anything in the videos. The comments they made were just thoughtless and it was obvious they didn't even watch the videos, and it's like, what are you even doing here? Can't you just go loiter around some kind of religious forum?



Gorgoroth9 said:


> I'm presently annoyed that most of my friends believe in ghosts. Freaking adults.
> 
> I know I should humor them, but no, I believe in science and empirical reasoning. The Enlightenment was kind of a big deal. There is no evidence for this dumb crap. But I'm outnumbered so people just think I'm spiritually out of touch telling me 'maybe there are just some things that can't be explained.'
> 
> So annoying. As if a lack of explanation were in itself proof of something absurd and improbable. I kind of have to hold my tongue for the most part because it's a cultural issue in my community. Lots of people believe in this stuff. Don't want to rain on their parade while they're commemorating lost loved-ones, but on the inside, cringe-levels are rising lol.
> 
> Just got a social media post that blew up from a ghost-hunting event where people are claiming to see a face in the smoke *facepalm*


Actually yeah, I recently heard that people are becoming less religious but more superstitious. Hopefully being superstitious isn't worse.


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## versikk

Being superstitious is on par with religiosity, IMO. It is the same phenomenon: Ignoring rigid reasoning in favor of flimsy wishy-washy beliefs in completely non-proven phenomena.

It is quite disheartening to think that a person will fare better in life just because they say "knock knock" or physically knock on a wooden table. The mechanics of it do not support the belief in the least. It is impossible to prove how such an action will have an impact on the very laws of nature and the outcome of time and space itself.

But I wouldn't say believing in ghosts is superstitious. It's very close to straight up religion: It's the belief in supernatural beings. It's the belief in planes of existence that lie beyond death.


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## Tetragammon

versikk said:


> Being superstitious is on par with religiosity, IMO. It is the same phenomenon: Ignoring rigid reasoning in favor of flimsy wishy-washy beliefs in completely non-proven phenomena.


Agreed.



versikk said:


> It is quite disheartening to think that a person will fare better in life just because they say "knock knock" or physically knock on a wooden table.


Hah! I totally do this all the time, though I think it's more of a facetious reaction to the superstition of others than a genuine superstitious belief. My mom used to tell me all the time, "make sure you knock on wood!" And I did, though I never actually believed it made a difference. The same thing goes for saying "rabbit" as soon as possible in every new month, which will supposedly bring "good luck." I don't believe it will do a damn thing but it's a silly tradition that reminds me of my parents so I'll probably keep up with it for the rest of my life.

I think there's a difference between serious superstitious belief and people who just do things as a kind of gimmick or flippant reaction to others. I'm sure there's some of that in religiosity, too -- like the "Cultural Mormons" of my youth, who really didn't believe in any of the doctrine but loved the conservative culture.


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## versikk

Tetragammon said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Hah! I totally do this all the time, though I think it's more of a facetious reaction to the superstition of others than a genuine superstitious belief. My mom used to tell me all the time, "make sure you knock on wood!" And I did, though I never actually believed it made a difference. The same thing goes for saying "rabbit" as soon as possible in every new month, which will supposedly bring "good luck." I don't believe it will do a damn thing but it's a silly tradition that reminds me of my parents so I'll probably keep up with it for the rest of my life.
> 
> I think there's a difference between serious superstitious belief and people who just do things as a kind of gimmick or flippant reaction to others. I'm sure there's some of that in religiosity, too -- like the "Cultural Mormons" of my youth, who really didn't believe in any of the doctrine but loved the conservative culture.


Well that is certainly interesting.

I myself do not buy the concept of "jinxing" in any way, the way it is traditionally taught. But I can personally jinx myself since I know that my self-destructive parts of my mind will try to turn all occasions into something dark so I have to second-guess myself at times to make sure that my demons don't jinx me. make sense?


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## dasiefiedo

I don't like that many people confuse religion with a person's personality. In addition to religious views, each person has personal beliefs, character, and temperament. Being a religious person, in my opinion, is not good or bad. I know beautiful people who don't believe in God and bad people who go to church every Sunday. When I was in this church (LINK REMOVED), I met a guy named Jeb. He said he was in prison for rape, and now he goes to church and asks for forgiveness from God. Is he a good person or a bad person? We can't be sure.


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## Tetragammon

dasiefiedo said:


> I don't like that many people confuse religion with a person's personality. In addition to religious views, each person has personal beliefs, character, and temperament. Being a religious person, in my opinion, is not good or bad. I know beautiful people who don't believe in God and bad people who go to church every Sunday.


I disagree. Personality isn't the problem -- *religion is*. Granted, perhaps dark triad personality traits and other undesirable characteristics make some religious people more inclined to take their views to extremes, like trying to force everyone else to believe and act as they do. But the real problem is the religion itself; the dogma which teaches believers that they are inherently "better" or "more righteous" than everyone else because they attend the One True™ Church while everyone else is being tricked by false churches. The way that churches often encourage the ostracization or even (sometimes literal) demonization of anyone who doesn't believe and act as they do. And the way that all wrongdoing can be immediately "forgiven" by a few prayers, a hefty tithe and/or a bout of "confessions." It's ludicrous because it teaches people that they are not responsible for their own actions: "the Devil made me do it" and all of that crap.



dasiefiedo said:


> I met a guy named Jeb. He said he was in prison for rape, and now he goes to church and asks for forgiveness from God. Is he a good person or a bad person? We can't be sure.


It's ironic; this is exactly what I'm talking about. In my opinion, anyone who commits rape is a *bad person*, period! That this guy attends church every Sunday and asks his invisible friend for "forgiveness" doesn't mean that he might actually be good -- it just means that he wants to be _seen by everyone else_ to be "repentant" or "changed." People don't change -- only the masks we wear, that we display for the benefit of everyone around us, actually change. The very _idea_ that you can be forgiven for literally anything by a church -- THAT is exactly the problem, and that's all religion.


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