# Attitudes of the welfare system



## Brilliantly Beta (Aug 5, 2012)

Well this is my first ever topic of discussion *insert jingle here* feel free to have some cake too :teeth 

Sadly as assertive as I am about posting, the topic itself has caused me a great deal of stress that i find hard to rise above :rain I don't know what the welfare system is like for you non uk'ers but here there is a great deal of controversy surrounding welfare, employment support allowance in particular. 

I was diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder not so long ago (hard to believe on here I know ) and so began for me the rocky path that is the welfare system. I was at the time struggling to find work on jobseekers allowance. They were impatient and didn't have a lot of time for me understandably I was a statistic on this support, one of thousands, millions even. So I then get transferred after I have a panic attack before going on one of their arranged first aid courses so they transfer me onto Employment Support Allowance. They said it would be less pressure to find work and was geared more towards me overcoming my issues great huh? However, the government giving out tailored help to the jobless sounded too good to be true and it really was. It proves just how out of touch this government is with those who suffer inwardly. All they done was funded an income. The people who was meant to check up with me weekly to see how i was doing and arrange steps for me to beat my issues rarely called. I had to go to medicals regularly which at first I was happy about. I mean a chance to share your problems so they can arrange the support to get your life back on track right?....Wrong! They were rude and abrupt didn't care about what I had to say It was more like being interrogated. To top it off they failed me second time round despite there being no difference and me adding that im currently receiving psychiatric help now for it and I have had medication tweeked.

I can appeal but it will take many months and I have to prove im still suffering from an anxiety disorder that is with me long term which amuses me somewhat. Yeah im going to suddenly wake up one morning this flashy dude oozing with confidence. Sooo the light bulb at the end of the tunnel moment because im trying to be an assertive fellow I mean whats the point in wallowing right? I plan to take active measures myself and don't intend to carry through the appeal. I want to be strong enough to not need a welfare system that degrades the people on it rather than helping them. Its been diabolical i've been slammed by people for leeching when there are people out there blatantly milking the system. The only real help is my medication doesn't come with a charge but that's it. 

Anyhow that's my rant of the day :fall I need a cup of tea now ><

Anyone else had a similar experience on this? I really think the government should do at least one thing right while they are in power and do more to support and not stigmatise those who are inwardly vulnerable :whip


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## Lone-Wolf (Mar 2, 2011)

Well im on that too i think its hard to pass those medicals but ive been on the sick since i was like 17 and ive got a long history of SA, ive been failed once in the past, but i've been on it again nearly a year now. I think they dont take mental health that seriously unless you say something like suicide then they take more notice, like thats the only reason i think im still on it coz i overdosed, and i think of suicide sometimes. sorry there jerks to u mine are pretty helpful just its very hard to get on it! i dont think they will ever take mental health that serious to be honest.


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## Brilliantly Beta (Aug 5, 2012)

:agree im sorry you have been that low I have felt pretty trapped in the past before but have managed to pull through. It is a shame that they don't. The frustrating thing is people like us don't milk the system we are genuinely suffering and would love nothing more than to lead normal lives. It's just a shame there are no national schemes available. Do you think maybe it would boost employment somewhat considering how many people could be suffering in silence? It just confuses me that a welfare programme like employment support allowance only provides support which stops at income and not at emotional needs. Maybe they are stigmatizing us as only wanting one thing when in reality its a cry for help that we aren't coping. Very unfair scenario imo


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## Contemplar (Sep 4, 2012)

Yeah the benefits system is pretty crazy, let alone the so-called official support structures they have going on. The best bet is nearly always to look up a group not linked directly to benefits if you want to get taken seriously.

I'd go into my experiences of it but it's almost 1am right now, and I'll just summarise it all with : "It's all about the money". I'm pretty sure the medical examiners related to benefits, at least at one point, were given cash incentives for every person they got off income support / ESA / etc. Way back when, I had to contest a decision. Normally I would just accept the results with a shrug, but the medical examiner was constantly making inappropriate, judgemental remarks and ended up with me breaking down into tears. When the hearing came, they scored me twice what she did. Though in the waiting room to be heard, I met another guy who had been removed from his benefits. He apparently had several disks in his spine partially drained of fluid due to a car accident, and now he walks with a cane and often has to stop and lean against something if his back spasms. His only experience was with physical labour, and they happily said he was fine to work.

Then of course you also get doctors who see you more as a statistic and a nuisance to be ushered out of the door as fast as possible, who make things infinitely harder. Ever tried to talk to a doctor about how you're struggling with depression and it's getting to be too much, and got the reply "Well what do you want -me- to do about it?" Yeah. The amount of dumb stuff I've encountered or heard of through online friends with similar situations is absurd. 

In the end, it's all about the money. Even with otherwise good individual offices (the jobseekers office and a job agency I visit down here are pretty good), the complete lack of understanding / familiarisation with things as high-profile as depression is really disheartening. How can they claim to be about a client's needs when they can't even grasp the basics of clinical depression, let alone the other varieties of similar issues?

Trust me, you're not alone in your experiences.
Though it seems western culture still has a long way to go before the full depth of mental-EMOTIONAL issues transfers from academic/medical study into full action. It really is the 'invisible disease'...


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## ryobi (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't live in the U.K., I live in the U.S. but I get furious with the stigma associated with disibility


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## amene (Mar 28, 2010)

I think it;s fine..some people desperately need it, who are not lazy. But there are so many (in the us) that take advantage. Some have a ton of kids, like if you have no money stop having a bunch of kids and they still don't want a job. Two of my aunts husbands are lazy fuccks. Neither want to work and one lives off the government. Then there is my friends cousin who doesn't want a job, who had a kid young and lives off the government. She parties all the time, and her daughter is usually with family. I cam by once with my friend and the baby was in her uncles room which was filled with ciggeretee smoke, because he was smoking and the door was shut. Also, the girl is already cussing..Another example is there are these nurses who come by from a company to help my grandma for a few hours while I'm working or have class. Most of them that have come to help, were on public assistance. What irked me was, supposedly they were poor but had all this nice ****. They could afford somehow a bunch of nice things, but would complain about money. My uncle is paralyzed waist down and still manages to go to work and take no money from the government. I think there should be stricter laws. Maybe help families to where they can get back on their feet.
Some people are just sooooo damn lazy which is hurting those who really need the help and for some reason those who actually need it get denied..wtf.


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## pointlesslife (Oct 23, 2012)

Here in Canada its not that bad imo but there is still some issues that need to be fixed


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## Jenchu (Dec 12, 2010)

People think every black woman in the U.S is on welfare.


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## Batty (Mar 3, 2014)

OP, it's kind of refreshing to hear that other countries are as convoluted as the US. 
The only experience I have with welfare-like things is foodstamps. I lost my job as a cashier two years ago and no matter how many job applications I filled out (around 250 if I remember correctly) no one would hire my boyfriend or me, so I had to go on foodstamps. At the time, my boyfriend's dad was paying our rent and we had no money for food for almost 5 months...So we had 'emergency' food stamps for a month, since we didn't have ANY food in the house, but they wanted us to get an affidavit/letter that said my bf's dad was paying our rent. That night, my boyfriend called and begged his father to do it. He said no. We lost our food stamps, and I had to borrow money from my family every so often so I could buy dog food and a loaf of bread every so often. Last Christmas, my aunt asked me what I wanted for Christmas. Since both of us were employed since June last year, we had money, so I said "I want a gift-card to Walmart," and my aunt refused to buy me one because "I might spend it on groceries." Actually, I wanted several things from there that I would not buy for myself usually, but nope. Might've spent it on groceries.

(sorry for ranting)


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## thombom (Jun 21, 2014)

amene said:


> I think it;s fine..some people desperately need it, who are not lazy. But there are so many (in the us) that take advantage. Some have a ton of kids, like if you have no money stop having a bunch of kids and they still don't want a job. Two of my aunts husbands are lazy fuccks. Neither want to work and one lives off the government. Then there is my friends cousin who doesn't want a job, who had a kid young and lives off the government. She parties all the time, and her daughter is usually with family. I cam by once with my friend and the baby was in her uncles room which was filled with ciggeretee smoke, because he was smoking and the door was shut. Also, the girl is already cussing..Another example is there are these nurses who come by from a company to help my grandma for a few hours while I'm working or have class. Most of them that have come to help, were on public assistance. What irked me was, supposedly they were poor but had all this nice ****. They could afford somehow a bunch of nice things, but would complain about money. My uncle is paralyzed waist down and still manages to go to work and take no money from the government. I think there should be stricter laws. Maybe help families to where they can get back on their feet.
> Some people are just sooooo damn lazy which is hurting those who really need the help and for some reason those who actually need it get denied..wtf.


Your comment is actually a good example of how the lazy ****s and judgmental people are affecting people's view on helping people. Even though the beginning of your comment was approval for those who really need help, most of your comment dealt with who you disapprove of receiving help. And you only seemed to have any emotion about the disapproval.


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## DeniseAfterAll (Jul 28, 2012)

It's something for bitter people to take their anger out on .

I know someone who suffers from Schizophrenia .. ... and spends all day doing nothing but staring at the grass with his sunglasses on . He also spends 50% of his welfare money on weed , movies .. ... and booze .

Do I blame him ? Of course not . You will NEVER know what the Universe looks like from the back of his eyes ... so you're not in a position to Argue .

Those so called 'lazy welfare scroungers' ARE in pain . Severe mental pain . Nobody chooses to have a drug addiction . People turn to drugs to medicate mental illness .

I'm baffled by the attitudes towards welfare recipients in a forum like SAS . You've obviously never suffered from depression . I beg to differ .

I have a job , which I could have quit if I wanted to .. to spend this week on welfare instead of working . But I refuse to do it out of solidarity with the post-earthquake rebuild of this city .. and no , I don't care where my Tax money goes . They better spend at least 50% of it on poor people .. ... and chasing the son of a **** who stole my bike .. instead of wasting it on drug busts .


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## Persephone The Dread (Aug 28, 2010)

It sounds like such a nightmare that I haven't even tried. I'm lucky in that I have some money, and live with my mum and she pays for food/house bills right now.

I don't want money anyway I want a personal life coach.. Therapy helped a tiny bit while I was going through with it, but now I'm mostly back to square one.


I don't understand the lazy thing, I don't think I've ever met someone who was so 'lazy' they couldn't be bothered doing anything ever. That isn't fun, that isn't life, that's pretty obviously a serious issue that needs fixing and some people can't help themselves. People just don't understand that.


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## Metus (Dec 6, 2010)

Persephone The Dread said:


> I don't understand the lazy thing, I don't think I've ever met someone who was so 'lazy' they couldn't be bothered doing anything ever. That isn't fun, that isn't life, that's pretty obviously a serious issue that needs fixing and some people can't help themselves. People just don't understand that.


I know some people who ARE like that and they're not really mentally ill. There are some people who, for whatever reason, have no ambition whatsoever. They just like to coast through life. To each their own, of course.

The taxpayer will take umbrage with supporting them as the taxpayer has every right to. Most people hate busting their asses and investing so much of their time and money into their vocational development to have it be taken away and given to those who won't.

But some of them DO manage to support themselves with odd-jobs and meager part-time wages and they have no desire for more. They just value their leisure time far more than work and don't desire much.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

I couldn't care less, if welfare makes me more well off financially or even if it just makes me happier then that's what I'll do, why the hell not?

I don't give two craps what any of you guys say... we're animals made out of atoms floating on a rock in space in a universe that will end.

I don't care, life is about living until you die and that's it everything else is a total illusion and I mean a TOTAL illusion. 

I'm really not interested in how the neurons in your brain are firing when it comes to this subject, I don't owe it to the world to do anything.


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## minimized (Nov 17, 2007)

The purpose of welfare in the US is to... allegedly... help people.

It might as well serve the purpose for others to look down upon us. An excuse for them to call us lazy and try to make us hate ourselves.

That's America for you, and you'll get that attitude even here.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

DanTheOutlaw said:


> I couldn't care less, if welfare makes me more well off financially or even if it just makes me happier then that's what I'll do, why the hell not?
> 
> I don't give two craps what any of you guys say... we're animals made out of atoms floating on a rock in space in a universe that will end.
> 
> ...


And there is the problem with some welfare recipients.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

nubly said:


> And there is the problem with some welfare recipients.


So let me get this straight, you believe that I OWE it to the world to work?

You are aware we're animals on a planet in a universe spanning an estimated 156 billion light years right?

It's illusion, you're absolutely wrong if you disagree... it can't be disputed.

I would like you to explain your comment if you would please.


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

DanTheOutlaw said:


> So let me get this straight, you believe that I OWE it to the world to work?
> 
> You are aware we're animals on a planet in a universe spanning 93,000,000 light years right?
> 
> ...


You don't owe work to the world. But you shouldn't outright refuse to work while expecting welfare benefits. If you can't find a job fine, but obviously the system can't work if everyone just says 'well it's a big universe why should I ever bother to get a job?'

I'm for welfare by the way, but I don't think the sentiment you're expressing is good for you or good for society.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

persona non grata said:


> You don't owe work to the world. But you shouldn't outright refuse to work while expecting welfare benefits. If you can't find a job fine, but obviously the system can't work if everyone just says 'well it's a big universe why should I ever bother to get a job?'


I do work actually but why should I care what happens to the system?

Honestly I couldn't care less also, not everybody thinks how I do so you've just brought forth a hypothetical argument.

They say the world doesn't owe you a living yet it seems we owe IT a living.


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

DanTheOutlaw said:


> I do work actually but why should I care what happens to the system?
> 
> Honestly I couldn't care less also, not everybody thinks how I do so you've just brought forth a hypothetical argument.
> 
> They say the world doesn't owe you a living yet it seems we owe it a living.


I wasn't talking to everyone I was talking to you, so no, it's not hypothetical. My post was about the opinion you expressed

I didn't initially realize that your posts in this thread were about your existential angst, sorry. I'll let you get back to contemplating the pointlessness of everything.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

persona non grata said:


> I wasn't talking to everyone I was talking to you, so no, it's not hypothetical. My post was about the opinion you expressed
> 
> I didn't initially realize that your posts in this thread were about your existential angst, sorry. I'll let you get back to contemplating the pointlessness of everything.


It's the only thing that matters, it's better than contemplating how you're going to act in public without being judged or what other people think about your voice or if you've got pimples or if you've got a good body.

YES it is hypothetic because you said IF EVERYBODY thought the way I did and they don't so therefore it's hypothetical.


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## nubly (Nov 2, 2006)

DanTheOutlaw said:


> So let me get this straight, you believe that I OWE it to the world to work?
> 
> You are aware we're animals on a planet in a universe spanning an estimated 156 billion light years right?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I've neverbeen high so I don't know about this illusion you're talking about. If everyone took without having anyone to give then there wouldn't be anything to take.


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

DanTheOutlaw said:


> It's the only thing that matters, it's better than contemplating how you're going to act in public without being judged or what other people think about your voice.
> 
> YES it is hypothetic because you said IF EVERYBODY thought the way I did and they don't so therefore it's hypothetical.


Oh, that's what you were getting at. You seemed surprised earlier that somebody would consider your viewpoint to be a problem. And I was explaining that it's a problem because if that idea is encouraged rather than discouraged your country would collapse. I know, I know, one day the sun will burn out anyway. Some people do care about your country not collapsing though, they're just weird like that, and hence don't support your position.

Anyway, clearly there's nothing left to say. This discussion doesn't matter anyway what with the heat death of the universe coming and all.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

nubly said:


> I'm sorry, I've neverbeen high so I don't know about this illusion you're talking about. If everyone took without having anyone to give then there wouldn't be anything to take.


I agree but not everybody takes from the pot and neither do I for that matter as I work and I'm not on welfare.

I'm simply stating that I have no mystical obligation to be selfless or behave in any way how somebody else would want me to.

If my life is more pleasurable being out of work then why should I work?

I entirely understand where you're coming from, you're thinking about economics and politics and how things are constructed in every day life where as I'm coming at it from the large scale picture.

Bottom line though, I've got just as much responsibility to contribute as a snail.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

persona non grata said:


> Oh, that's what you were getting at. You seemed surprised earlier that somebody would consider your viewpoint to be a problem. And I was explaining that it's a problem because if that idea is encouraged rather than discouraged your country would collapse. I know, I know, one day the sun will burn out anyway. Some people do care about your country not collapsing though, they're just weird like that, and hence don't support your position.
> 
> Anyway, clearly there's nothing left to say. This discussion doesn't matter anyway what with the heat death of the universe coming and all.


I'm not asking anybody to not work or to let the country collapse I'm just saying I personally don't care and I have no obligation to care.

All I care about is how bearable my life is whilst I wait the years until I die.


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## persona non grata (Jul 13, 2011)

To make a post related to the actual topic, there's a lot of bias against people on the welfare system which I feel is incredibly unfair, especially during a period in which there are far fewer jobs than job seekers. I've never attempted to get any sort of government benefit but it sounds like a pain, and I hope I never have to deal with it. 

I don't know much about the UK system but in the US there really ought to be more way for people to get mental health treatment. If you have an issue that prevents you from dealing with people, especially an anxiety type issue that isn't easy to get termed a 'disability' it isn't easy to find the the help they need to get well enough to lead a decent life.


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## DanTheOutlaw (May 29, 2014)

persona non grata said:


> To make a post related to the actual topic, there's a lot of bias against people on the welfare system which I feel is incredibly unfair, especially during a period in which there are far fewer jobs than job seekers. I've never attempted to get any sort of government benefit but it sounds like a pain, and I hope I never have to deal with it.
> 
> I don't know much about the UK system but in the US there really ought to be more way for people to get mental health treatment. If you have an issue that prevents you from dealing with people, especially an anxiety type issue that isn't easy to get termed a 'disability' it isn't easy to find the the help they need to get well enough to lead a decent life.


Entirely agree.


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## zoslow (Jun 2, 2014)

I've never been on welfare but who knows I might end up on it at some point and I understand other people needs help at times so I don't judge anyone. I think it's a shame that poor people and people in very difficult situations should have to be even further humiliated and looked down upon whereas meanwhile the rich are as always engaging in tax fraud and other ways of trying to get out of paying what they should.

That's what is wrong in society, when people that are already well off are trying to get their hands on even more than what is theirs.


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## CheezusCrust (May 23, 2013)

ShyWolfie said:


> Well this is my first ever topic of discussion *insert jingle here* feel free to have some cake too :teeth
> 
> Sadly as assertive as I am about posting, the topic itself has caused me a great deal of stress that i find hard to rise above :rain I don't know what the welfare system is like for you non uk'ers but here there is a great deal of controversy surrounding welfare, employment support allowance in particular.
> 
> ...


I blame the outdated idea that is dualism. There are a lot of people that still don't treat the brain as an organ and consciousness as a process of that.


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Not to get off topic, but here's something that shows the total opposite of the current system lol. As well as the flaws in it. In my opinion neither is better, and neither work all too well with a focus on propaganda and brainwashing the public into production rather than "living" or "experiencing" life lol. Thank you industrial revolution, for the death of culture, and free thought ~ I do love my technology though, and being sensitized to civilized life lol^^


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