# Do you feel spirituality but dont believe in it?



## ermor90 (Oct 22, 2011)

I have always been atheist. As a child I loved dinosaurs, I thought human evolution and how we developed into this creature was so fascinating and I loved science about space and nature ever since childhood. We never discussed religion or spirituality when I was a kid, never even discussed science. I was the only one with an intrest.

I am swedish and we have the highest amount of atheists in the world. I believe atheism mostly promotes thinking for yourself about matters and therefore is good but in Sweden it seems most people dont think like this, as we also have a strong precence called "jantelag". Its basicly that you shouldnt believe youre different or think different, unless you are weird etc. Many dont have much patience for people with different lifestyles.

Becouse of what makes me happy and how I want to live I definelty see myself as an outsider, if I should view myself through the eyes of the inpatient ones.

Now Im drifting away from my real question... I feel spiritual but I dont believe it. Do you feel the same?

I can feel a presence, a love in the air etc. Persons that I miss very much both human and animals can still bring some connections that happens during special moments. This makes me feel warm inside, but I understand these feelings are normal in human nature. Humans have developed these feelings to deal with life since very very long ago. 
We are very intelligent, emotional creatures that I think these feelings of a presence developed to help us. All I do is give into them and enjoy them for what they are. Its not importnant for me if its just in my head, what matters is that it still makes me feel good, just like so many other humans through history of mankind. 

I pray a little sometimes, but I pray to my 3 dead freinds, a guineapig and 2 rabbits that I was very close to and spend lots of time with every day. Their memories, all the love they gave me, exists inside me in a place I can visit to get some power when I need it. 
In that way they still exists becouse I honestly dont believe really in time so I think a person, like a rabbit, exists almost, if not, as much as a memory of love as if it was still running on my carpet in flesh and blood. I cant explain this any better, sorry. I dont believe in spirits.

What I want to show with this thread to other atheists is that its not silly to give into these complex feelings. They developed to give us joy. Many human instincts developed to give us joy and more entertainment in life, as we are so emotional creatures we need it to be healthy and functional. 

And us, who have unbalanced brainchemisty, certainly needs it.

Let me hear your thoughts, opinions and philosophy in this topic!
Maybe even start an intresting discussion here?


----------



## Glacial (Jun 16, 2010)

I understand what you are saying. Part of the human experience does involve "feelings" which I would also think are a result of the chemical reactions in our brains due to evolutionary processes that allow us strong feelings in order to have ability to cope, live with other humans, keep the human race going etc. However, I believe there is a difference between relating our feelings to our biology and relating them to some "god" or other world, force or dimension. For me, I think it all comes down to the concept that some people relate these "more difficult" concepts to explain as sceintific and others relate them to some religion. Personally, I feel it is right for me to turn to science for answers, because that is where rationality and logic exist. For me, religion tries to answer questions and explain concepts based on ancient beliefs, which were not in anyway scientific--think about the old myths of people thinking there was a "thunder god" and when a bad storm came through, the thunder was a sign that god was angry with the people. Do people still believe this? No, we have long had scientific answers to weather and its phenomena. And scientific discoveries are always progressing; so things that we don't have answers to now, doesn't mean there isn't one, we just haven't found it yet.


----------



## Jnmcda0 (Nov 28, 2003)

I do feel spirituality...I just don't ascribe a supernatural cause to it. I've felt such feelings at rock concerts, sporting events, and at just quiet moments of reflection. I think this video does a good job of explaining the way in which atheists can feel "spiritual":






A few weeks ago, I went to Oakland, CA for a few days on a business trip. One evening, I was bored, so I decided to drive over to the Golden Gate Bridge. I had never been out west before, so I figured I might as well see some sights while I was there. I knew from the maps that the Golden Gate National Recreation Area was across the bridge, but I had no idea how beautiful that area is. I drove to the top of Hawk Hill and watched the sunset over the Pacific Ocean. It was the most beautiful sight I've ever seen. Look one way and you see the Golden Gate Bridge and downtown San Francisco. Look the other way and you see the Pacific Ocean 900 feet below. I sat alone for 45 minutes just watching the sunset in complete awe.














































Then, after the sun had set, the nearly full moon rose over Oakland and the bay:










As I sat there, I had a feeling of total awe and peace. It is the feeling that comes when we are living in the present moment.


----------



## anonymous soul (Sep 8, 2011)

first of all, jantelag sounds terrible.....its like the bible belt in the usa

i feel spirituality in life....and i believe its real. brain chemistry explanations do about as much for me in terms of explaining life as "its the word of god" arguments from christians.

i believe that some form of spiritual agnostic humanism is the most natural religious path for humans to take in our scientific age. 

feeling spiritual feelings and noticing beauty and goodness in life doesnt mean you have to believe in an archaic religion, or a god.

most important thing...feel what you feel, and dont doubt it for a second. this is your life to see however you want to see it. nothing else is important.


----------



## Brax (Jun 15, 2005)

As an atheist I have performed religious ceremonies and felt it was 'real' at the time. We can take what we find beautiful, fascinating and uplifting in life, re-arrange it with our boundless minds and project it upon the world in which we live. We have imaginations and wish to externalize it, as the creative beings we are, I think because we wish to give the universe added substance and meaning.


----------



## Reg Barclay (Jun 29, 2011)

I have felt spiritual during psycodelic experiences before with LSD, Mushrooms, and MDMA. I have also see spirits and or extradimensional beings while under the influence of DMT. However its easy for me to classify and understand "feelings" as the result of brain chemistry. There may be somthing more to it that I dont know about, but as far as I'm concerned feelings are just a result of biochemistry.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Reg Barclay said:


> I have felt spiritual during psycodelic experiences before with LSD, Mushrooms, and MDMA. I have also see spirits and or extradimensional beings while under the influence of DMT. However its easy for me to classify and understand "feelings" as the result of brain chemistry. There may be somthing more to it that I dont know about, but as far as I'm concerned feelings are just a result of biochemistry.


Likewise. I can feel something very 'spiritual' when in a K/M-hole. A lot of Gaia type feelings. It's an amazing awe inspiring beautiful experience, and the main reason I like to take ket/MXE. I'm fully aware it's all in my head though.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Brax said:


> We can take what we find beautiful, fascinating and uplifting in life, re-arrange it with our boundless minds and project it upon the world in which we live. We have imaginations and wish to externalize it, as the creative beings we are, I think because we wish to give the universe added substance and meaning.


Good answer.


----------



## candiedsky (Aug 7, 2011)

I tend to believe that something has happened not out of a coincidence, but of some greater meaning. The most spiritual thing I do is yoga and meditation, and I am agnostic. A lot of people think that their religion 'guides' their lives, but to me, religion controls and restricts what you can do and think and believe in. I don't want to be tied down that way. It sounds immature probably, but I want to be able to do or think or feel things in whatever ****ing way I want to. It's okay to be spiritual, but I don't see the big appeal of worshiping some god you can't even prove exists.


----------



## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

Reg Barclay said:


> I have felt spiritual during psycodelic experiences before with LSD, Mushrooms, and MDMA. I have also see spirits and or extradimensional beings while under the influence of DMT. However its easy for me to classify and understand "feelings" as the result of brain chemistry. There may be somthing more to it that I dont know about, but as far as I'm concerned feelings are just a result of biochemistry.


I felt spiritual too when I took MDMA. I felt love for everyone around me and totally at peace. At the time it seemed like the answer to all the world's problems. It kind of reminded me a bit of how I felt when this black christian choir sang at my high school.


----------



## jonny neurotic (Jan 20, 2011)

Can't say I have ever had a spirtual or trancendental experience. Not even when I have been out of it on shrooms. I seam to be firmly anchored in materialism(scientific materialism that is: not economic materialism). I just cannot conceive of anything else.

I have been to church with my grandad a few times when I was younger. He is a penticostal and there is lots of lively music and people jumping around and gibbering. I have felt disturbed by the whole thing and I could feel my adrenal glands kicking in. I guess this kind of reaction can be what makes people think they have had a religious experience. IDK...


----------



## Chris16 (Nov 1, 2010)

I think all of the great feelings and experiences described by the spiritual are real. I only diverge when they claim to understand the nature and causes of those experiences completely.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

Prayer at its core is just an outlet for human emotion, and a way to self-talk. People credit a supreme being in the sky for this when it is truly them wanting someone to talk with, and what easier than something that can theoretically hear and provide advice on everything to everyone in the world at once?

Spirituality is something personal, that everyone may not "feel" the same as another person does, but is there.

Organised religion, however, is not spirituality. It is the corrupt version of spirituality that sparks ego- and ethno-centrism and creates chaos. This is why the world revolves the way it does, though religion wasn't the first "-centrism" to be introduced to the world; it grew to that stage.

I for one subscribe to the idea of positive and negative energy flows, which is a loose translation for spirituality. Energy affects the world and us humans in an incredible number of ways, and most people don't realise this. Being negative draws upon negative energy, reinforcing negative events in ones' life. Being postive draws upon positive energy, reinforcing more "normal" and positive events in ones' life.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Cub said:


> I for one subscribe to the idea of positive and negative energy flows, which is a loose translation for spirituality. Energy affects the world and us humans in an incredible number of ways, and most people don't realise this. Being negative draws upon negative energy, reinforcing negative events in ones' life. Being postive draws upon positive energy, reinforcing more "normal" and positive events in ones' life.


Are your positive/negative energy flows just confined to humans? After all, how could, say a frog have a negative energy flow? :?

Are your energy flows not totally subjective as well? One man's negative being another's positive etc etc. :?


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

It's an entirely new subject to me, actually. And I haven't researched or thought about it much. But it is quite simple to put to the test. A person that tarries around in a negative frame of mind and resists outside efforts to change that negativity will encounter a multitude of negative experiences in a day, whereas one in a positive frame will encounter positive ones.

Energy itself, however, can take multiple forms I presume. As nature proves, energy is neither created nor destroyed: simply changes form. Energy can take a turn for the better (positive) or worse (negative), and I suspect there is neutral ground for spiritual energy as well.

The phrasing above effectively answers your last question, though not directly. Yes, energy is subjective. Positive energy draws toward positive, and negative draws toward negative. One individual can indeed find positivity in something another encounters as negative. It is energy within I presume.

It's a very interesting subject and may only loosely translate into spirituality. Or perhaps it firmly does? I'm not entirely sure how one could know with absolute certainty.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

'Energy within' is the important thing to take from that. It's not external, it's all internal.

Manifestations/thoughts of your own mind, not a third party higher intelligence. The buck stops at you.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> Manifestations/thoughts of your own mind, not a third party higher intelligence.


I completely agree with this statement. There is no third party involved whatsoever that directly affects us.



ugh1979 said:


> 'Energy within' is the important thing to take from that. It's not external, it's all internal.


However, this I cannot directly agree with, for energy is in everything. And energy around something may affect its type of energy. Will you remain happy being around depressed people 24/7 for a full year? Naww. Will you remain happy amongst cheerful youngsters that are always smiling? Heck yeah.

The world is so strange though, this is mere theoretical talk that has only a handful of real evidence. :sus


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Cub said:


> However, this I cannot directly agree with, for energy is in everything. And energy around something may affect its type of energy. Will you remain happy being around depressed people 24/7 for a full year? Naww. Will you remain happy amongst cheerful youngsters that are always smiling? Heck yeah.


That's simple psychology, not any mysterious positive/negative energy.

As I say, it's all just your own interpretation and processing of what you are sensing as 'energy'.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

Point taken.

But at its very basics and core, how does psychology work? There's something behind psychology as well.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Cub said:


> Point taken.
> 
> But at its very basics and core, how does psychology work? There's something behind psychology as well.


Erm, electrical connections in your mind?


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

You don't think it goes beyond that?

Of course, beyond that is where spirituality comes in. And why so much is tossed up as if a salad for debate.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Cub said:


> You don't think it goes beyond that?
> 
> Of course, beyond that is where spirituality comes in. And why so much is tossed up as if a salad for debate.


You already said yourself it's all just within us and not an external force. :?

Are you saying now there is something more to it than just the internal workings of your own brain?


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

Nonono. Energy itself. Energy is within us. Manifestations/thoughts of our own mind affect our energy. Indirectly, external energy may affect us.

There may be. Energy is not so simply comprehended.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

Cub said:


> Nonono. Energy itself. Energy is within us. Manifestations/thoughts of our own mind affect our energy. Indirectly, external energy may affect us.
> 
> There may be. Energy is not so simply comprehended.


Any external energy that effects your mind is just the end result of ideas transmitted to you via stimulus of your senses. Nothing else.

I can't accept a mysterious good/evil energy permeating nature which you seem to be implying. Good/evil are very human concepts, and I see no reason in nature how subjective thoughts and ideas could exist out with the minds of humans.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> Any external energy that effects your mind is just the end result of ideas transmitted to you via stimulus of your senses. Nothing else.


Ahhh, I see what you're getting at here. You're stating that our individual stimuluses (as earlier we discussed subjectiveness) filter in which ways other types of surrounding energies will affect us. This somewhat makes sense, as much thought processing is unconscious and in majority case, energy is affected unconsciously (at most, subconsciously).

However, we can change our individual mood/energy, thereby (likely unconsciously) affecting our positive versus negative energy.

Though, as a result of this discussion, I now find it likely that energy works both ways. It is affected, and it affects, all simultaneously. Interesting.

Oh, also. You received an implication that wasn't there, for I agree wholeheartedly that good vs. evil are human concepts and have various meaning.


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

ermor90 said:


> Now Im drifting away from my real question... I feel spiritual but I dont believe it. Do you feel the same?
> 
> I can feel a presence, a love in the air etc. Persons that I miss very much both human and animals can still bring some connections that happens during special moments. This makes me feel warm inside, but I understand these feelings are normal in human nature. Humans have developed these feelings to deal with life since very very long ago.
> We are very intelligent, emotional creatures that I think these feelings of a presence developed to help us. All I do is give into them and enjoy them for what they are. Its not importnant for me if its just in my head, what matters is that it still makes me feel good, just like so many other humans through history of mankind.
> ...


I do "feel" things. Whenever I chew Spearmint Gum I feel like my Grandfather is still here, I feel happy. I guess, though, that it's more like I firmly believe things. That when people die, their spirits are still here (I don't believe that you can see them, though). I feel that when you sit down and talk to a picture of someone you love who has passed away or talk to them at their grave, they can still here you. That when you light a candel or burn incense for them, they know you are thinking of them. Maybe it's because I have a lot of oriental beliefes... I do have to admit, though, I haven't really talked to a dead animal. XD


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

SaikoSakura382 said:


> I do "feel" things. Whenever I chew Spearmint Gum I feel like my Grandfather is still here, I feel happy. I guess, though, that it's more like I firmly believe things. That when people die, their spirits are still here (I don't believe that you can see them, though). I feel that when you sit down and talk to a picture of someone you love who has passed away or talk to them at their grave, they can still here you. That when you light a candel or burn incense for them, they know you are thinking of them. Maybe it's because I have a lot of oriental beliefes... I do have to admit, though, I haven't really talked to a dead animal. XD


That sounds like wishful thinking. Their 'spirit' only exists in the memory of the people who knew them. There's no reason why a conciousness would be hanging around where they dead body was. That would be hell for the conciousness. All energy serves some purpose in the physical world, not some archaic supernatural wild idea.


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> That sounds like wishful thinking. Their 'spirit' only exists in the memory of the people who knew them. There's no reason why a conciousness would be hanging around where they dead body was. That would be hell for the conciousness. All energy serves some purpose in the physical world, not some archaic supernatural wild idea.


Yes, it probably is 'wishful thinking', but then again, no one knows what it's like after one dies. So you really have no idea if a 'spirit' still exists or if it's just in memories. Unless you died and came back to life, but I doubt that. Nobody has done that.
I didn't say that the conciousness would be hanging around their dead body. I stated that I have alot of oriental beliefes (mostly Japanese) so you probably should have done a little research before replying. If you want to know, and this is dwelling a little more into philosophy then I was going to, I believe that you basically become a "star" when you die (nothing like heaven, just to clarify). That's my beliefe, if you don't believe it that's fine. Please don't call my beliefes names just because it is not the same as yours.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

When something passes on, its energy has to go somewhere. It can't merely disappear, so it has to change form orrr transfer... >;D


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

^ Wait, would your 'spirit' be considered 'energy'? I'm very confused. I thought energy was basically light and movement...^^'

If your soul is considered energy then I do get what your saying. It's basically (but not completely) like reincarnation. Only, I guess that your energy could become anything, not just living things.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

^ I posted my response on the wrong thread somehow. LOL.

@Saiko - I'm really not quite sure, because I'm a newb to the ideal. I really should research it and the theories around it a bit because I'm pretty clueless. I've simply adopted it as a positive mentality to work with, because it makes so much sense with me. *shrug*


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

^Hahaha, no wonder I was confused.  It is an interesting topic.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes, yes it is. One thing I hope to experience some day is to visit a *real* energy-type massagist (I forget the practical name). There's so many fake ones out there its ridiculous, but I real one I wish to encounter. I want to feel what my close friend experienced a few years back; a (literally somewhat painful) removing of all negative energy in the body through use of merely the hands, where they never touch you. Has to be an incredible experience.

Alas, that is somewhat off-topic as it is only semi-related to spirituality. 

*EDIT*


Syndacus said:


> Reiki I think is what you're looking for since it deals with energy and pulling it from the cosmos.


I have a suspicion that's what it was, but as I'm not completely certain, I used a vague reference term.


----------



## Syndacus (Aug 9, 2011)

Cub said:


> Yes, yes it is. One thing I hope to experience some day is to visit a *real* energy-type massagist (I forget the practical name). There's so many fake ones out there its ridiculous, but I real one I wish to encounter. I want to feel what my close friend experienced a few years back; a (literally somewhat painful) removing of all negative energy in the body through use of merely the hands, where they never touch you. Has to be an incredible experience.
> 
> Alas, that is somewhat off-topic as it is only semi-related to spirituality.


Reiki?

Polarity?

MET?

Reiki I think is what you're looking for since it deals with energy and pulling it from the cosmos.


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

^ I'm not sure if it is Reiki. It uses palm healing, and Cub mentioned that they don't actually touch you. Then again, there probably is a Western Reiki that I haven't heard of...


----------



## Syndacus (Aug 9, 2011)

Reiki, the way I learned it involves non-touching practices. Basically I place my hands over a channel or different meridian points on the body to draw out toxins and say a prayer to bring in positive energy. I'm only level 1 though. Master Reiki (Level 3 and higher) have extremely warm hands and feel like their glowing. You can feel the heat come off of them.


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

^ It's probably a more Western version. When I looked them up, the only difference was placing the hands and where they were placed.^^
Then again, his friend could have had "distant healing" from a second degree.
Pretty cool that you practice it!^^ Apparently very few people make it to third degree, you should try it.


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

Syndacus said:


> Basically I place my hands over a channel or different meridian points on the body to draw out toxins and say a prayer to bring in positive energy. I'm only level 1 though. Master Reiki (Level 3 and higher) have extremely warm hands and feel like their glowing. You can feel the heat come off of them.


Sounds exactly like it. It's incredible, in't?. Of course there's lots of fakies out there.


----------



## Syndacus (Aug 9, 2011)

Cub said:


> Sounds exactly like it. It's incredible, in't?. Of course there's lots of fakies out there.


That goes with a lot of professions. Educating the public to tell the difference between a fake and a real one is one of my duties as a therapist. Do you get Reiki Therapy often or never had it?


----------



## Cub (Jul 9, 2011)

Never experienced it personally, just a very trustworthy friend has (this friend being older, she's in her early forties). Sometime in my life I will try to.


----------



## ugh1979 (Aug 27, 2010)

SaikoSakura382 said:


> Yes, it probably is 'wishful thinking', but then again, no one knows what it's like after one dies. So you really have no idea if a 'spirit' still exists or if it's just in memories. Unless you died and came back to life, but I doubt that. Nobody has done that.
> I didn't say that the conciousness would be hanging around their dead body. I stated that I have alot of oriental beliefes (mostly Japanese) so you probably should have done a little research before replying. If you want to know, and this is dwelling a little more into philosophy then I was going to, I believe that you basically become a "star" when you die (nothing like heaven, just to clarify). That's my beliefe, if you don't believe it that's fine. Please don't call my beliefes names just because it is not the same as yours.


A "star"? What do you mean?

Not sure where I called your beliefs names. :?


----------



## SaikoSakura382 (Nov 8, 2011)

ugh1979 said:


> A "star"? What do you mean?
> 
> Not sure where I called your beliefs names. :?


You said it was a "archaic supernatural wild idea". While it might be based on ancient beliefes, I didn't decide to believe in it out of the blue. I did my homework (I promise ;D). Or were you talking about supernatural ideas in general?

Ahhh, and this is where it gets confusing.^^' Well, in the past, the Japanese used to believe that when you died you turned into a star, that was how they thought stars came into being. Today few people believe that, but instead believe that your "spirit" is in a type of "heaven". No god or angels, heaven or hell, just up there somewhere. Others started believing that your soul entered another world when you died, one that only the dead, or shingamis, could enter. The spirit can then move from our world to theirs whenever they feel like it. My belief lies somewhere in the middle of all three. Kind of combine all three together and you get what I believe.^^ Like I said, confusing. Took me about a year to sort it all out. XD


----------

