# Back pain...



## Catastrophizer (Aug 23, 2010)

...


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## Still Waters (Sep 18, 2008)

Google Sciatica Symptoms (Not sure if spelled correctly??)


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## Rossy (Jan 15, 2011)

Sounds like sciatica.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

NoSocialButterfly said:


> For the last few days my back has been bothering me. It is worst when standing up or sitting down for prolonged periods. And I'm also having pain/tingling in my left leg down to my foot. This is not unbearable, but is rather bothersome and I am concerned. I work retail and am on my feet for most of a 9 hour shift. It was hard to get through the last couple hours at work yesterday. Stupid clumsy me fell at work the other day and I don't know if I did something then. I don't have to work for the next few days and I'm hoping this gets better. Any idea what's going on or tips and suggestions to help get this better?


I suffered periodic severe lower back pain for over 10 years, all help from doctors totally useless and physiotherapy totally useless. Many times I was bed-ridden for about a week at a time, so painful could not even stand up, had to crawl along floor. Painkillers made me feel very sick and disoriented, and very bad dreams. Then by accident I came across this book and using some of the exercises described therein my back was fixed 100% and has been perfectly fine now for about 5 years even after heavy lifting or strenuous exercise.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Chat-U...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364859949&sr=1-4

hth


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## Cylon (Mar 15, 2013)

What helped for me was to get on a bicycle, at first the pain becomes worse but then it gets so nice! It will stretch your lower back muscles in a great way. The pain has been nihil these days, I really recommened this!


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## dismiss (Jul 26, 2012)

Sorry you're going through this.
I have a list of injuries and issues... So, I can offer a little advice.

I walk at my job, it is very active. Staying active is key. 
Relieving pain is partly just getting used to it... You can achieve a nice rush simply trying to ignore pain... It's kind of akin to getting a tattoo...
Driving has become an issue. Took a 12 hour trip to PA last year to visit friends and relatives. Had to stop frequently. Found out that keeping a towel in the car, that I can fold or roll to adjust positions helps greatly. Messing with the seat only went so far.
Keep your weight down if you can. Adding pounds to an already stressed frame will never help.
Learn to love ice and moist heat... Heat on stiff, strained muscles, ice on swollen hot ones... Ice on sciatica seems to help relieve some pain... May possibly ice the nerve, reduce swelling in the area...

Ask your doctor about 5% lidocaine patches. It'a a topical, so no worries about addiction... 
Works very well on lower back pain, & has more staying power than the creams. They were originally developed for pain from shingles. I love them for muscular pain. Doesn't do anything for joint pain, unfortunately.

The way the doctor writes the prescription is important for price. I used to have to pay $25.00 for ten... Then, my doctor got wise, now I get 90 of them for the same $25.


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

Although I would agree with sciatica I cannot help but strongly advise that you see a physician. Any tingling/numbness should be checked by a doctor.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

The one exercise that worked wonders for me was lay down on floor on back, and bring yourself up to leave all your weight on your lower back at the tail of your spine, then roll forward and backwards gently (using your arm to balance makes it easier), and from side to side also a bit.

Obviously take some care to start with - I think you find pretty quickly if this is working or not. Whatever this does it was far more effective than all the other exercises/physio which I tried.

The worst back pain I had was when attending classes at a college, and when driving, and generally speaking in the more stressful situations the worse it was.


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## dismiss (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh, yeah... Invest in comfortable, supportive shoes. I had to learn to love sneakers for my job.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

I have a nerve ending that is right between two of my verbri so my legs tend to be paralyzed when i do leg lifts past a certain point. Same with sitting a long time. cracking my back and a warm bath helps me.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

NoSocialButterfly said:


> I'm going to give it a week or 2 before I go to a doctor....I hate doctors!


I wouldn't wait; you really should get some imaging studies to find out exactly what's going on, because sciatica is a term for the symptoms you have, but not the exact cause. Where the problem is will decide the best way to tackle it (a herniated disk won't be helped much by exercise), or at least to prevent it from getting worse, and to stop it well before any possible permanent damage is done (which may happen long term, so you don't need to freak out). In the mean time, you can try NSAIDS for some symptom control, however if it the symptoms are well controlled with NSAIDS, I still want to stress the need to actually get it checked out, because the NSAIDS won't fix the problem.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

And have a healthy skepticism about anything the medical profession prescribes to you, as they so often put themselves first and patients second. Whatever makes more money for them and their associates tends to be what patients will be prescribed, and not any simple though highly effective remedies which may be available.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

starburst said:


> And have a healthy skepticism about anything the medical profession prescribes to you, as they so often put themselves first and patients second. Whatever makes more money for them and their associates tends to be what patients will be prescribed, and not any simple though highly effective remedies which may be available.


Yes, we dedicate years of our lives learning about disease and how to treat only to perpetuate it, so we can line our pockets :roll. I personally can't wait to practice, so I can rake in the $ as I slowly poison and suck the money out of unsuspecting patients.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

lonelyjew said:


> Yes, we dedicate years of our lives learning about disease and how to treat only to perpetuate it, so we can line our pockets :roll. I personally can't wait to practice, so I can rake in the $ as I slowly poison and suck the money out of unsuspecting patients.


I am not saying EVERY medical professional or scientist is out for their own gain, irrespective of the interests of the health of the population - most are not - it is the SYSTEM of the medical authorities and the powerful pharmaceutical lobby that is corrupt to its very core.

The primary example of this is the SUPPRESSION of the CURE FOR CANCER during the last century. By every means possible the cure which was developed by Royal Raymond Rife, and which was proven time and again to be 100% effective, curing even the most extreme cases of cancer, was suppressed - by sabotage, by legal means, by obstruction, by threats, by intimidation.

For the full story read 'The Cancer Cure That Worked : 50 Years of Suppression' by Barry Lynes, or Google some info on this subject.

So-called 'mainstream medicine' has utterly failed to cure cancer, and all its treatments, such as radiotherapy, chemotherapy, and surgery, cause more harm than good, and completely fail to address the actual cause of the disease.

Likewise much of the treatment we receive from modern 'medicine' for a whole host of other ailments is totally ineffective, and 'non-mainstream' remedies that actually work are hidden from us.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

If you want to believe that it's fine, after all there are plenty of people believe that evolutionary scientists (among many others) don't understand the basics of the science they're experts in, because clearly the world is only 6,000 years old lol. If you actually understood what cancer is, and how it isn't some singular disease but a descriptive term for your own cells going haywire (for massive variety of reasons), and dividing uncontrollably, and how it being your own cells makes it extremely hard to treat without killing the good parts of your body, or how everything that makes each cancer unique makes it so you can't treat one cancer like another, you'd get why the idea of a simple cure, that is somehow suppressable, is a rediculous fantasy.

Again, believe what you want, but the lack of scientific understanding you'd need to believe that idea makes it seem pretty silly that you think you have a place evaluating what is and isn't an effective treatment for a disease you know absolutely nothing about.

Man, I need to stop posting on here so much and get back to work; those babies aren't just going to give themselves autism inducing "vaccines."

edit*
You know what, I take back what I said, because while I'm perfectly fine with you deciding to delay actual treatments for your potentially terminal diseases with some quackery - it's your body/life - after looking into this guy, I saw that people like you actually lead to others paying the price for buying into this sort of garbage.



> Donald Brandt, 77, and Sharon Brandt, 65, who ran a clinic out of their home, face three felony counts involving fraud, according to the indictment. They will make an initial appearance on Jan. 3 in U.S. District Court in Seattle.
> 
> From 2002 through 2005, *Donald Brandt posed as a medical doctor* and used devices that purportedly fired radio frequencies that cured disease, according to a federal search warrant and state records.
> 
> ...


http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20071221&slug=indictment21m

The sad thing is that when you can actually do surgery on testitcular cancer, it almost a guaranteed cure, but convinced by people like you to get the "real cure," he pushed of actual treatment until it was too late. The same thing has happened with HIV/AIDS, which those same quack machines you seem to buy into were also used for, putting patients at risk there as well. The hideous irony in all this is that every damned quack touting that they have the cure for some terrible disease, which has been "suppressed" by the greedy profit seaking "medical establishment," is selling that cure at an exorbitant price. Oh, but they're the real deal right? There's no way they could be the ones taking advantage of people at their most vulnerable, offering them hope in exchange for thousands of dollars, could there?


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Pain killers, massage, and physical therapy are the only treatment options that work.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

lonelyjew said:


> If you want to believe that it's fine, after all there are plenty of people believe that evolutionary scientists (among many others) don't understand the basics of the science they're experts in, because clearly the world is only 6,000 years old lol. If you actually understood what cancer is, and how it isn't some singular disease but a descriptive term for your own cells going haywire (for massive variety of reasons), and dividing uncontrollably, and how it being your own cells makes it extremely hard to treat without killing the good parts of your body, or how everything that makes each cancer unique makes it so you can't treat one cancer like another, you'd get why the idea of a simple cure, that is somehow suppressable, is a rediculous fantasy.
> 
> Again, believe what you want, but the lack of scientific understanding you'd need to believe that idea makes it seem pretty silly that you think you have a place evaluating what is and isn't an effective treatment for a disease you know absolutely nothing about.
> 
> ...


Your post demonstrates a quite remarkable ignorance, probably one of the most blatantly stupid posts I have ever read on any forum anywhere.

To correct you on your extreme idiocy may I make the following simple points :-

(1) there are undoubtedly out there cheats and scammers of all kinds in every field. According to your logic e-commerce is completely unviable because there are bogus online stores trying to defraud your credit card.

(2) Royal Raymond Rife was a brilliant scientist recognised by his peers, and whose methods were adopted by many medical professionals, all of whom obtained great results in curing cancer.

(3) Rife invented an optical microscope achieving magnifications surpassing 20,000 times, far greater than any optical instrument today, allowing living specimens to be observed, unlike modern electron microscopes which can view only dead specimens.

(4) The acts of sabotage and intimidation and closing down of laboratories and clinics involved with the Rife treatment, and other successful treatments, for cancer are documented facts.

I hope you shall not post any more of your drivel on this person's thread - the chances of you actually being able to help someone are minus zero.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

What exactly DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CANCER? Can you tell me the basic way our cells turn into cancer (say a basic overview of the steps that take normal lung cells into become a metastasis in the brain)? Honestly the most ridiculous thing here is that your contention hinges on the notion that thousands of doctors and scientists all conspired to against a single man, with the purpose so unbelievably evil that it is hard to comprehend. For this conspiracy, these thousands of scientists and doctors basically signed away their lives, because a great many of them would go to develop cancer of some form of another. And for what again? 

Ugh, why do I keep posting here. I need to get back to doing things that are worth my time, like convincing my hapless victims that I'm on their side, and that I care, when I don't, and I see them as mere paychecks.


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## TheTraveler (Jan 31, 2013)

There are no cures for cancer. If that was so then remission would not be what ppl focus on.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah sorry saying you have something that cures all cancer is like saying you have something that cures all infection, from HIV to streptococcus.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

lonelyjew said:


> What exactly DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CANCER? Can you tell me the basic way our cells turn into cancer (say a basic overview of the steps that take normal lung cells into become a metastasis in the brain)? Honestly the most ridiculous thing here is that your contention hinges on the notion that thousands of doctors and scientists all conspired to against a single man, with the purpose so unbelievably evil that it is hard to comprehend. For this conspiracy, these thousands of scientists and doctors basically signed away their lives, because a great many of them would go to develop cancer of some form of another. And for what again?
> 
> Ugh, why do I keep posting here. I need to get back to doing things that are worth my time, like convincing my hapless victims that I'm on their side, and that I care, when I don't, and I see them as mere paychecks.


First off, what *I* know about cancer is hardly the issue here. What outstanding scientists like Royal Raymond Rife, Virginia Livingstone-Wheeler, and more recently investigators such as Professor Magnus Essand know about it is HIGHLY relevant, as they have dedicated all their expertise and knowledge and their entire life's work to it. Your focus should be on THEM and their pioneering efforts, not people like me who are simply relaying the documented facts on this whole subject to those who have so effectively been kept in the dark by official misinformation.

If you would care to actually learn the story of Royal Rife you would discover his ground-breaking work was championed by many renowned scientists and medical professionals, but this work was systematically sabotaged by the American Medical Association and the powerful pharmaceutical industry lobby through the following methods :-

- Expensive legal actions for baseless claims that caused Rife to become bankrupt and no longer able to continue with his work
- Threats to withdraw the livelihood and professional status of any scientists and doctors using the Rife treatment
- Withdrawal of funding for all labs and research projects relating to Rife treatment
- Destruction of laboratory equipment and setting fire to laboratories
- The likely assasination of Dr Milbank Johnson one of Rife's main supporters just before he was to announce publicly the cure for cancer had been found
- The suicide in one case of a scientist terrified by the prospect of court action against him
- The giving up of a career in medicine by one doctor due to the threats and intimidation he received

The powerful organisations such as the International Cancer Research Foundation, the American Cancer Society, the Food and Drug Administration and the American Medical Association, all recipients of huge amounts of public funds, did everything in their power to suppress the cure for cancer which Rife (and later others) found, with this effort having two primary aims : (1) to discount the validity of the phenomenon of 'pleomorphism' in micro-organisms (as proved by the observations of Rife and other scientists), as this contradicted the fundamental scientific basis justifying their methods of treatment, and (2) to prevent a very cheap and effective cure for cancer from widespread adoption as this would make redundant their own highly profitable (though largely ineffectual) 'cures' of chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and surgery.

Morever the ICRF failed completely and deliberately to carry out proper test procedures on Rife's work, thus falsely declaring it to be 'scientifically unproven', and hence the funding from which this work (and the whole of humanity) could have so greatly benefited was withheld.

With this climate it is virtually impossible for anyone to gain access to Rife therapy for cancer, and the only people now practising it are those brave enough to risk imprisonment and ruination of their lives if caught. (There is in fact a 'Cancer Law' which has been passed which makes it illegal to advertise in any manner whatsoever any 'alternative' cure to cancer). It is thus hardly surprising that many dishonest practitioners are operating in this field, preying on some very vulnerable people, and it is very difficult indeed to determine whether any practitioner is trustworthy or not. And this is entirely thanks to those 'authorities' of medicine who have driven this work underground and prevented its proper adoption by the scientific community. We have profiteering crooks on both sides of the equation, whilst millions of people die every year due to the completely curable disease of cancer.

If you would care to learn the full details of this story the following book, a truly remarkable piece of journalism, will enlighten you :-

'The Cancer Cure That Worked : 50 Years of Suppression' by Barry Lynes

There is also an extended article in the popular British electronics magazine "Everyday Practical Electronics" about Rife's work :-
http://www.rife.de/the-end-to-all-disease-.html

In the 1950's after Rife's lab was closed down, microbiologist Dr Virginia Livingston-Wheeler (aka Wuerthele-Caspe-Livingston) developed a vaccine for cancer, but after giving presentations of her work to scientific conferences her laboratory had its funding withdrawn and was closed down. Fortunately she was subsequently able to continue her work elsewhere and set up a clinic where she managed to cure over 10,000 cancer sufferers successfully with an 80% success rate.

Fortunately genuine advances in cancer research are being made right now by scientists not completely under the control of commercial forces. For example in Sweden :-

'A virus that kills cancer' :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9508895/A-virus-that-kills-cancer-the-cure-thats-waiting-in-the-coldc.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/04/2013-new-approach-fighting-cancer

This work is currently being held back from further development because of lack of funding, as the chief oncologist of Uppsala University Hospital says : 'only if there's a big profit can pharmaceuticals companies ensure that everyone involved earns enough to pay their mortgage.' But it is a fact that pharmaceutical companies derive their income largely through PUBLIC funds obtained through the health care service, and that is money which should be spent by the govt on GENUINE research. Equally, money raised by the cancer charities which we all contribute to should be used to fund this type of research, and not go straight into the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies like the Bill Gates fund.

The self-satisfied cancer professionals have done nothing to alleviate human suffering but have CAUSED human suffering on a collosal scale even worse than Hitler's holocaust, given that presently 500,000 Americans and 150,000 British people die every year from cancer. Add this up worldwide and over the 80 years of suppression of the truth and you will see it vastly surpasses Hitler's and even Stalin's death-toll of innocent victims. In other words the medical authorities, particularly those of the USA, and the global pharmaceutical industries, are the greatest mass murderers in history.

To denounce effective therapies and treatments which can actually cure cancer is nothing short of holocaust denial. And to refer to such great scientists as those mentioned above who have dedicated their lives to this work as 'quacks' is positively asinine.

I recognize that any medical professional, as with anyone, has to earn their paycheck, and do what is expected of them, but at least privately they could adopt a more open and fair-minded attitude towards 'alternative' health treatment and not repeat the 'party line', replete with all its scathing sarcasm and mocking condescension.


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## komorikun (Jan 11, 2009)

I just think the human body was not made to stay in one position for many hours at a time. We are supposed to go back and forth between sitting, lying down, standing throughout the day. Work and school unfortunately requires screwing up your body. I get lower back pain on Tuesday when I have to sit upright (not slouch) from 2pm to 9pm with only three 10 minute breaks and one 40 minute break.


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

NoSocialButterfly said:


> So, my dad looks like my dad has a cancerous growth/spot in his bladder for the 4th time in less than 2 years (awaiting biopsy results right now). And there is a cure out there that is being hidden just so doctors can keep making money on treatments that are ineffective? These doctors sure are profiting off my dad, no wonder they want to keep it a secret. Is that the gist of this argument? And how did my back pain thread turn into this? And oddly enough my back is feeling soooo much better, but I'm still having the left leg and foot issues. Anyway, would be nice if my dad could receive the cancer cure!


Yes, thousands of very smart doctors who want to help people are being hoodwinked. :clap


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## alissadisa (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Pain killers, massage, and physical therapy are the only treatment options that to work and then Have you tried back exercises? They help some. Ugh, I feel your pain.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

NoSocialButterfly said:


> So, my dad looks like my dad has a cancerous growth/spot in his bladder for the 4th time in less than 2 years (awaiting biopsy results right now). And there is a cure out there that is being hidden just so doctors can keep making money on treatments that are ineffective? These doctors sure are profiting off my dad, no wonder they want to keep it a secret. Is that the gist of this argument? And how did my back pain thread turn into this? And oddly enough my back is feeling soooo much better, but I'm still having the left leg and foot issues. Anyway, would be nice if my dad could receive the cancer cure!


Well there are people working on it today, thankfully, and the main obstacle is money, ironically despite the $/£billions that are donated to cancer charities each year.

There are undoubtedly conmen out there trying to capitalize on some vulnerable people, though check out the interesting work of these scientists at icancer.org.uk :-

http://icancer.org.uk/

Your back pain issue is now onto this subject due to the terrible campaign of 'Skepticism' against ALL treatments outside of mainstream medicine, even though in many cases they actually work better than mainstream medicine.

eg the back cure I 'found' worked for me


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## Sacrieur (Jan 14, 2013)

starburst said:


> First off, what *I* know about cancer is hardly the issue here. What outstanding scientists like Royal Raymond Rife, Virginia Livingstone-Wheeler, and more recently investigators such as Professor Magnus Essand know about it is HIGHLY relevant, as they have dedicated all their expertise and knowledge and their entire life's work to it. Your focus should be on THEM and their pioneering efforts, not people like me who are simply relaying the documented facts on this whole subject to those who have so effectively been kept in the dark by official misinformation.


Rife was not brilliant. He was a crackpot, a fraud, or simply delusional. It's possible he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. His devices didn't work and has led to the death of many ignorant people.

Rife devices don't work because there's no mechanism for it to work. Rife claimed that it caused chemical structures to resonate certain chemical structures so that they were destroyed... With a 9V battery and two copper tubes. All he was doing was passing current through something. It would be difficult to explain without a high school level understanding of Physics and Chemistry, but things don't just fly apart when you pass a 9V current through them.

He later even gave up his claims about it curing cancer, just that it would weaken pathogens. The scientific community even tried to replicated his results and failed. So it wasn't like some big conspiracy. It's just science. It didn't work, and there's no mechanism for it to work.

Virginia Livingstone-Wheeler is another such person, although to a very minor degree. She's completely wrong about the mechanism for causing cancer, although credit for actually proposing a theory that would have a feasible mechanism. Her treatment methods have shown to be completely ineffectual.



> If you would care to actually learn the story of Royal Rife you would discover his ground-breaking work was championed by many renowned scientists and medical professionals, but this work was systematically sabotaged by the American Medical Association and the powerful pharmaceutical industry lobby through the following methods :-


He claimed it was sabotaged by the AMA without any evidence to contrary and all of it against him.



> - Expensive legal actions for baseless claims that caused Rife to become bankrupt and no longer able to continue with his work


That's what happens when you purport things that don't work as things that do.



> - Threats to withdraw the livelihood and professional status of any scientists and doctors using the Rife treatment


Yes, because it killed people. You know, like trying blood letting for people with low blood pressure.



> - Withdrawal of funding for all labs and research projects relating to Rife treatment


His device was shown not to work and then he goes off all crazy about how the AMA has this giant conspiracy. Paranoid schizophrenia turned up to the max. I wouldn't fund him either.



> - Destruction of laboratory equipment and setting fire to laboratories


Source?



> - The likely assasination of Dr Milbank Johnson one of Rife's main supporters just before he was to announce publicly the cure for cancer had been found


Source?



> - The suicide in one case of a scientist terrified by the prospect of court action against him


I would be too, knowing I killed people.



> - The giving up of a career in medicine by one doctor due to the threats and intimidation he received


And rightfully so, medical fraud is a serious thing.



> The powerful organisations such as the International Cancer Research Foundation, the American Cancer Society ... 'cures' of chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and surgery.


No one else verified his claims. Chemotherapy and radiotherapy didn't exist back then.



> Morever the ICRF failed completely and deliberately to carry out proper test procedures on Rife's work, thus falsely declaring it to be 'scientifically unproven', and hence the funding from which this work (and the whole of humanity) could have so greatly benefited was withheld.


No they didn't. His device doesn't work.



> With this climate it is virtually impossible for anyone to gain access to Rife therapy for cancer, and the only people now practising it are those brave enough to risk imprisonment and ruination of their lives if caught.


Those brave enough to risk killing people, you mean.



> (There is in fact a 'Cancer Law' which has been passed which makes it illegal to advertise in any manner whatsoever any 'alternative' cure to cancer).


Because it kills people.



> It is thus hardly surprising that many dishonest practitioners are operating in this field, preying on some very vulnerable people, and it is very difficult indeed to determine whether any practitioner is trustworthy or not. And this is entirely thanks to those 'authorities' of medicine who have driven this work underground and prevented its proper adoption by the scientific community. We have profiteering crooks on both sides of the equation, whilst millions of people die every year due to the completely curable disease of cancer.


It doesn't work. Research cancer all you want, just don't come up with some bull**** theory and then blame everyone for a giant conspiracy when people point out it's bull****.



> If you would care to learn the full details of this story the following book, a truly remarkable piece of journalism, will enlighten you :-
> 
> 'The Cancer Cure That Worked : 50 Years of Suppression' by Barry Lynes


That book is a disgrace to nonfictional literature.



> In the 1950's after Rife's lab was closed down, microbiologist Dr Virginia Livingston-Wheeler (aka Wuerthele-Caspe-Livingston) developed a vaccine for cancer, but after giving presentations of her work to scientific conferences her laboratory had its funding withdrawn and was closed down. Fortunately she was subsequently able to continue her work elsewhere and set up a clinic where she managed to cure over 10,000 cancer sufferers successfully with an 80% success rate.


No she didn't. And no one was cured. Your book is just making up statistics. Cancer isn't caused by a bacteria.



> Fortunately genuine advances in cancer research are being made right now by scientists not completely under the control of commercial forces. For example in Sweden :-


Duh. Maybe because that's how science works and there's not a big conspiracy.

'


> A virus that kills cancer' :-
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ncer-the-cure-thats-waiting-in-the-coldc.html
> 
> ...


No, it's not being so heavily funded because it's actually not very promising. Viral vectors rely on bonding to specific receptors which makes this sort of medicine very personalized. Simply put, if everyone with cancer had a PCR machine and a cancer research team then sure it would work. There's some promise, but we really don't know if it'll even work or not.



> The self-satisfied cancer professionals have done nothing to alleviate human suffering but have CAUSED human suffering on a collosal scale even worse than Hitler's holocaust, given that presently 500,000 Americans and 150,000 British people die every year from cancer. Add this up worldwide and over the 80 years of suppression of the truth and you will see it vastly surpasses Hitler's and even Stalin's death-toll of innocent victims. In other words the medical authorities, particularly those of the USA, and the global pharmaceutical industries, are the greatest mass murderers in history.


Yeah how dare they not use treatments that don't do anything on people!



> To denounce effective therapies and treatments which can actually cure cancer is nothing short of holocaust denial. And to refer to such great scientists as those mentioned above who have dedicated their lives to this work as 'quacks' is positively asinine.


You're deluded.



> I recognize that any medical professional, as with anyone, has to earn their paycheck, and do what is expected of them, but at least privately they could adopt a more open and fair-minded attitude towards 'alternative' health treatment and not repeat the 'party line', replete with all its scathing sarcasm and mocking condescension.


Medical practitioners don't earn as much as a paycheck as you might think.

Do you know what alternative medicine and natural medicine that works is called? Medicine.

Do you know what white willow bark is? It's an herb that was used as a anti-inflammatory agent. The active ingredient salicylic acid was discovered and we now synthesize a very similar chemical called aspirin. le gasp.

---

Sorry, don't listen to this guys advice, you'll get yourself far more injured or worse, dead.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

@Sacrieur

I'm sorry for you - I hope you can get help somehow.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

starburst said:


> First off, what *I* know about cancer is hardly the issue here.


*IT IS THE ISSUE*. You don't know a thing about cancer, or the science behind it, or how that relates to the treatment strategies. Despite that, because you've read a book, which gives an unverified account of what happened, and without any actual evidence (or have you personally seen his machine cure people?), you feel capable of not simply judging the efficacy of that "treatment" as a cure, but dismissing actual proven treatments that are ground in science and have been proven efficacious. Best of all, despite your complete lack of understanding all of these things, you think you're in the place to call thousands of hard working people corrupt and evil. Ridiculous.

If I was given the choice to end my life right now, but doing so would guarantee that such a magical cure would be found right after, I would gladly end my life, but that won't ever happen, because there is no magic cure here, and if you actually bothered to be open minded about this, you'd perhaps actually understand why I'm so damned sure about this.

I'm guessing it's a waste of time to type out a brief explanation of why the idea of resonant frequencies is one born out of ignorance, but here goes:

1. It assumes that cancer cells are extremely different from normal cells; they're not. A few minor changes are all that separate a normal cells. They only have to lose control division. Sometimes they change more drastically, but often they don't, and they don't need to change drastically to become deadly - leukemia kills you by taking up all the room in bone marrow, leaving none for normal blood cells to be made; astrocytomas growing your brain displace the axons of cells and push against surrounding cells, in your skull, which doesn't expand to accommodate tumors. Your body kill everything that is "different," and when cancerous cells differ greatly, your body usually does a good job detecting it, and killing it, before it gets out of hand.

2. It assumes that all healthy cells are more similar to other healthy cells they're not. Let's compare a upper motor neuron in your brain, which controls a muscle in your thigh, to a red blood cell: the red blood cell starts its relatively short life with a nucleus, makes tons of hemoglobin, and some other proteins, before it matures and the nucleus shrinks, condenses, and is "spit out," after which the blood cell barely produces protein, and barely uses any energy - it more/less just floats around until it gets damaged and gets gobbled up in your liver or spleen. Now the upper motor neuron, it was "born" before you were, and it will probably live until you die. It is enormous, stretching from the top of your brain, all the way down to the bottom of your spine (one cell)! It is one of the most active cells in your body, because aside from having to send electric signals that distance in fractions of a second, it has to constantly make proteins, vesicles, among tons of other things, many of which it has to shuttle all the way down from your brain (where they are made), to the synapse in the spine. It also has tons of other neurons and other cells that it interacts with everywhere it is, which either give it signals, or feed/protect it. *Point: these are two cells, there are tons more, all of which are insanely different, all of whom are going to be far more different from each other than a cancerous cell is from the cells it came from.*

3. It assumes that cells are static things, which are not in constant flux; cells are extremely dynamic. I talked about the red blood cells earlier, they originally come from a cell which can become any blood cell, and which is super active, constantly dividing, with different signals sending them down different paths. Each of these paths causes vastly different events within the cell, leading to vastly different results, at different times. Your skin cells start off as super active dividing cells, but over their life, they fill themselves up with protein, they connect with their neighbors, and they flatten themselves out immensely (4 cells at the surface cover 100 cells on the bottom). They eventually die, but leave a super strong network of protein that keeps us from losing water (a massive problem with burn victims who've lost their skin), and bad things out (another massive problem). *Point: any given cell is often very different than the normal cells that it came from, and often the cells around it, often more so than a cancerous cell is from those cells. *

So now you're left with the problem of somehow having to pick out cancer cells, while you're not destroying normal cells. *I'd love to know how you could tune your magic microscope to destroying a cancerous blood cell in the bone marrow, which happens to look 99.99% just like its normal counterparts, and far different from a neuronal cell, or nearby fat cell, or even other normal blood cells of a different type?*

Heck, forget that, because in any given instant, there are massive changes happening within a cell, that make it different this second from the last; when a muscle cell fires the chemical changes, environmental changes, and even it's physical size change drastically. When a cell is dividing, it changes insanely from moment to moment. How exactly do you target all cancer cells when they often not only themselves vary from one another because some have changed differently, but are themselves ever changing, being different this second than they were a second before?

Seriously, how do you fine a single frequency to kill them all, and not harm your normal cells? I'll save you the trouble of wasting tons of time contemplating it: you can't. You'd have just as much luck trying to come up with a way to zap the Earth with an equally magical device that would somehow selectively kill all lifeforms with a single deformed limb, be they human, mammal, reptile, insect, or plant, without doing any harm to any other lifeform.



starburst said:


> I recognize that any medical professional, as with anyone, has to earn their paycheck, and do what is expected of them, but at least privately they could adopt a more open and fair-minded attitude towards 'alternative' health treatment and not repeat the 'party line', replete with all its scathing sarcasm and mocking condescension.


Oh, we're the closed minded ones? Are you F'ing kidding me? IF IT WORKS, SHOW ME, AND I'LL BELIEVE IT. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's proven to work? MEDICINE. I love this, you're just like a religious fanatic, telling me that I'm the one who needs to expand my horizons, by accepting YOUR CLOSED MINDED beliefs, on faith. Where exactly is your open mindedness with reading about cancer biology? If you're so open minded why don't you care to look at the views of people who have spent their lives studying and treating cancer (before you call them corrupt and evil)? Get off your high horse you ignorant hypocrite.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

NoSocialButterfly said:


> So, my dad looks like my dad has a cancerous growth/spot in his bladder for the 4th time in less than 2 years (awaiting biopsy results right now). And there is a cure out there that is being hidden just so doctors can keep making money on treatments that are ineffective? These doctors sure are profiting off my dad, no wonder they want to keep it a secret. Is that the gist of this argument? And how did my back pain thread turn into this? And oddly enough my back is feeling soooo much better, but I'm still having the left leg and foot issues. Anyway, would be nice if my dad could receive the cancer cure!


I'm partly to blame as I have trouble resisting going on rants when that ridiculous argument is being made. If it wasn't annoying enough to have someone tell you that the career you're going into to help people is evil, or that all of your classmates/colleagues are corrupt (they clearly volunteer to maintain that veneer of sincerity), or to have the unbelievably difficult work and sacrifices made by doctors and scientists to cure diseases, what really gets me is that people like starburst aren't harmless. I can give two ****s what he thinks, but people like him, and quacks who charge desperate patients thousands upon thousands of dollars for miracle "cures," that do nothing for them but give them a brief period of false hope, have hurt people.

Anyways, glad to hear your back is feeling better, and I'd echo the idea that you should still get it checked out to find out what exactly was causing it. If it's something you can avoid treatment for, great, but if it's something like a herniated disk, exercise and things of that variety won't make it go away (though if it isn't causing problems, no need to treat it, but it still should be monitored to keep it from getting worse).

In regards to your dad, bladder cancer is one of those that unfortunately does tend to come back, though if it's caught early, it can be removed before it spreads - and it sounds like they're monitoring your dad carefully so if there is an issue, it's probably very early. Urology is a very well funded field because, as you can imagine, that part of the body is important to men, so old rich men throw tons of money into research for it, and as a result, the docs that will be caring for your dad will likely have more fancy, minimally invasive, tools than most other specialists (and which is why the field selects for some of the most brilliant people); I'm sure he'll be in good hands. Either way, best of luck to you both.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

Sacrieur said:


> Do you know what alternative medicine and natural medicine that works is called? Medicine.


I wish I had read your post lol, that sort of takes the thunder out from my use of that same line (insert smiley).


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

lonelyjew said:


> I'm guessing it's a waste of time to type out a brief explanation of why the idea of resonant frequencies is one born out of ignorance, but here goes:
> 
> 1. It assumes that cancer cells are extremely different from normal cells; they're not. A few minor changes are all that separate a normal cells. .....
> 
> ...


It *doesn't* make these assumptions - the radiation of a Rife machine *DOES NOT ATTACK CANCER CELLS* - it attacks the virus that causes cancer and which is present within tumour cells. When the virus is destroyed it decomposes into chemical poisons that kill the host tumour cell. The dead tumour cells are then digested by the immune system. The patient then experiences the 'Jarisch-Herxheimer' reaction for a time as the body disposes of the toxins, as happens with many other medical treatments.



lonelyjew said:


> So now you're left with the problem of somehow having to pick out cancer cells, while you're not destroying normal cells. *I'd love to know how you could tune your magic microscope to destroying a cancerous blood cell in the bone marrow, which happens to look 99.99% just like its normal counterparts, and far different from a neuronal cell, or nearby fat cell, or even other normal blood cells of a different type?*
> 
> Seriously, how do you fine a single frequency to kill them all, and not harm your normal cells? I'll save you the trouble of wasting tons of time contemplating it: you can't.


The manner in which you speak of the work of such brilliant scientists as Rife and others involved with this work is quite stunning. Rife's microscope alone is a feat of engineering of incredible sophistication taking many years to develop and surpassing that of any modern instrument, achieving up to 60,000x magnification. Medical schools do NOT teach students about electrical engineering which is why there is such widespread ignorance on treatments such as Rife's. You simply do not understand the science - you are nothing more than a *front line puppet* for the greedy capitalists who run the health industry. Your patients keep coming back because they never get cured.

As regards 'picking out' cancer cells have you read the articles I referenced above about the work currently being done in Sweden regarding viral treatments for a form of cancer (NET) and for which they cannot obtain funding from any charities or business because there is no profit to be made ? Have you watched the video at http://icancer.org.uk/ ? Have you watched cancer expert Prof Alan Mercher speaking about how promising this viral treatment is : 



 ?

If you don't bother to even watch these videos or read these important articles I can only conclude you are simply not interested to learn about new cures for cancer.



lonelyjew said:


> You'd have just as much luck trying to come up with a way to zap the Earth with an equally magical device that would somehow selectively kill all lifeforms with a single deformed limb, be they human, mammal, reptile, insect, or plant, without doing any harm to any other lifeform.


Clearly you didn't get much past the sci-fi stage with your scientific studies - please try and grow up, though I know its hard after experiencing a lifetime of capitalist brain-washing.



lonelyjew said:


> Oh, we're the closed minded ones? Are you F'ing kidding me? IF IT WORKS, SHOW ME, AND I'LL BELIEVE IT. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's proven to work? MEDICINE.


Read the above web links which I gave, watch the videos - I am showing you, OK? Within the next few months icancer.org.uk will raise enough funds to perform full clinical trials of their treatment for NET cancer.

And finally, I have no trouble at all 'offending' people who defend the corruption of the pharmaceutical and medical industries who put *profit before people*. All these industries should be not-for-profit organisations - ONLY THEN can the collosal conflict of interest that dictates which treatments the population can receive based on which are most profitable be finally ended. If a cheap effective new drug or treatment is discovered, even BY a pharmaceutical company - will they promote it if it means the immediate retiral of their current product line? It would be like turkey's voting for Christmas wouldn't it? You don't need a medical degree to figure that out.


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## lonelyjew (Jan 20, 2010)

You said this:



starburst said:


> First off, what *I* know about cancer is hardly the issue here.


And here is why it is a major issue:



starburst said:


> It *doesn't* make these assumptions - the radiation of a Rife machine *DOES NOT ATTACK CANCER CELLS* - it attacks the virus that causes cancer and which is present within tumour cells. When the virus is destroyed it decomposes into chemical poisons that kill the host tumour cell. The dead tumour cells are then digested by the immune system. The patient then experiences the 'Jarisch-Herxheimer' reaction for a time as the body disposes of the toxins, as happens with many other medical treatments.


You know nothing about what cancer is. Let me say that again *YOU KNOW NOTHING.* Some cancers are caused by viruses, not a single virus, but the vast majority aren't. I watched you videos, how about you read the wikipedia page, or wikipedia in on the vast conspiracy to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer



starburst said:


> Medical schools do NOT teach students about electrical engineering which is why there is such widespread ignorance on treatments such as Rife's. You simply do not understand the science - you are nothing more than a *front line puppet* for the greedy capitalists who run the health industry. Your patients keep coming back because they never get cured.


I find the hypocrisy and irony here laughable. First, are you an electrical engineer? Do you know how to evaluate the engineering of equipment that you haven't seen the technical specifications for? Second, I don't need to understand the engineering when the underlying theory of how it works, from the biological side, is so utterly wrong that anyone who actually has the most miniscule background in biology would be able to see it as such. Amazing lol.



starburst said:


> As regards 'picking out' cancer cells have you read the articles I referenced above about the work currently being done in Sweden regarding viral treatments for a form of cancer (NET) and for which they cannot obtain funding from any charities or business because there is no profit to be made ? Have you watched the video at http://icancer.org.uk/ ? Have you watched cancer expert Prof Alan Mercher speaking about how promising this viral treatment is :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I watched them, and while they make all sorts of amazing claims, they don't back them up (I'm a bit bothered that they didn't cite a single source of evidence, but pandered heavily for money). There is possible promise for that sort of therapy, and *SHOCK* it isn't anything new, and there is similar therapy that is being used to stimulate the immune system, more directly, into being sensitized to tumor cells (taking tumor cells out, taking white blood cells out, adding signal molecules that make the immune cells turn on like crazy, and then putting them back into the body where they can sensitize more cells - no virus needed).

FYI, just so you're aware, they're lying through their teeth when they say there isn't tons of money to be made in making viral vectors. If they could get their therapy to actually work, they'd be millionaires, if not billionaires. Again, if you had any idea of a single thing you were talking about, you'd maybe be aware of how much biologically active treatments cost (Ranibizumab costs $1500 per shot, and that's just for an antibody). Honestly, this is a silly discussion, because you're dreaming if you don't think they'd patent the process of making their viruses, then patent the viruses for that treatment, and then charge whatever they could get away with.



starburst said:


> I am showing you, OK? Within the next few months icancer.org.uk will raise enough funds to perform full clinical trials of their treatment for NET cancer.


Well, I hope that it works. Any treatment that saves people is a good thing. Label me as some shill if you want, but you and other extremists (of any sort) share the quality of dehumanizing those who disagree with you, and I don't mean in the Nazi sort of way either, but in the "they're not like me, they don't have empathy, and they're evil" sort of way. It's not just in this arena, but in things like the gun debate here, where both sides think the other is out to get them, when really everyone wants the same things. You need to get it through your thick head that 99.9% of people are on the side of helping others lol.



starburst said:


> And finally, I have no trouble at all 'offending' people who defend the corruption of the pharmaceutical and medical industries who put *profit before people*. All these industries should be not-for-profit organisations - ONLY THEN can the collosal conflict of interest that dictates which treatments the population can receive based on which are most profitable be finally ended. If a cheap effective new drug or treatment is discovered, even BY a pharmaceutical company - will they promote it if it means the immediate retiral of their current product line? It would be like turkey's voting for Christmas wouldn't it? You don't need a medical degree to figure that out.


Offend away, that isn't what bothered me and I wouldn't have posted such long posts for that sake. Consider, and by that, I mean seriously consider (count to 10 and try to let your bias subside for a second) the possibility that you're wrong. Now consider that you advise someone to ignore the cancer therapy that has been prescribed to them, in order to seek what you believe is a cure. Consider that they listen to you and they get that treatment, which does nothing. Consider that they then get worse, and when they see their doctor again, they are told that their cancer has metastasized and their chances of survival have plummeted. Consider that they die, because while you advised them in good faith, you were wrong. What then? These things happen, because people like you, with good intentions, but no understanding, so adamantly hold onto their conspiracy theories that they don't consider the possible risks that come with them.

I wanted to close with addressing this:



starburst said:


> *front line puppet* for the greedy capitalists who run the health industry. Your patients keep coming back because they never get cured.


What I've noticed about this sort of statement in particular is that it always seems to be the very last fallback strategy of people such as yourself (be they anti-vaccine, or homeopaths, whatever), a bastion from your cognitive dissonance. When all else fails, you can reassure yourself that I'm corrupt, or a puppet, and that you don't have to actually commit any sort of critical analysis to my arguments, because you know better. Beyond the aforementioned hypocrisy (I'm the one with a closed mind, right? Not you. No way.), it's a sad sort of pride imo, that is to become so entrenched, and so unwilling to accept anything that lies outside your beliefs that you throw your intellectual curiosity to the wind. "I'm right, and that's all I need to know, and damn anyone who says I'm wrong, because I know them to be wrong."

Oh well. My last post on the matter.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

lonelyjew said:


> I watched you videos, how about you read the wikipedia page, or wikipedia in on the vast conspiracy to?


Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source for Rife treatment OR for cancer treatment in general - these articles you cite are highly unreliable and biased for all the aforementioned reasons I've described above.

And you know I am right about Rife - you are presenting a very childish argument, echoing the shallow culture of lies that has been instilled into you from a young age, and from which you are unable to escape. Your whole education is corrupted by it. Pharmaceutical companies sit on EVERY board and committee that decides upon how our entire health industry functions, from what drugs will be licensed, what research will be carried out, what legislation will be passed, what students will be taught in medical schools, what treatments doctors are allowed to give to patients, and what doctors are even allowed to so much as mention to patients. It is corrupt to its absolute core - these cockroaches govern every aspect of our entire health system - and they are on the offensive to stamp out and discredit and defame every alternative health therapy in existense, and even the free discussion of such therapies.

You need to examine the FACTS - read the book by Barry Lynes for God's sake - go and buy it on Amazon NOW if you genuinely care about curing cancer. The criminal actions of the AMA and their associates are plain for all to see - how do you defend Morris Fishbein, head of AMA, accepting or rejecting drugs based on whether he could get advertising revenue from them and not on their medicinal qualities? And how do you defend Dr Mildred Schram secretary of the ICRF for forcing Rife to carry out wholly inappropriate and inadequate tests of his treatment and sending unqualified people to carry out the tests without any training, and then declaring his treatment to be of 'no medicinal value'. And labs suddenly being close down in spite of astonishing progress and astonishing results that warranted front page headline news in major newspapers, and articles in respected scientific journals such as the Smithsonian Institute and Science magazine? How can you possibly defend this? Are you saying this is just one big elaborate scam like some people say that the moon landing in 1969 was a complete scam and never actually happened?



lonelyjew said:


> it's a sad sort of pride imo, that is to become so entrenched, and so unwilling to accept anything that lies outside your beliefs that you throw your intellectual curiosity to the wind. "I'm right, and that's all I need to know, and damn anyone who says I'm wrong, because I know them to be wrong."


You say that I will not accept that I might be wrong - however on one point I am NOT wrong - that is cancer has NOT been cured by conventional medicine - that is plain fact - the treatments of radiotherapy and chemotherapy DO NOT CURE CANCER. And moreover the $/£billions raised by cancer charities go straight to research dictated by pharmaceutical companies - research that ensures the acceptance and widespread use of their products. The general public are generally not knowledgable about science, and so accept everything that they are told. WHAT A PERFECT SCAM! People are never going to get to the bottom of this! Except that is for people like me, who have more than just a passing aquaintance with science and technology. I had sufficient school grades to enter medical school, though I chose physics and mathematics instead, and I am sure I could learn anything I needed to learn about medicine or microbiology. Seeing through the lies though, that is a different matter, and that is not quite so easy.



lonelyjew said:


> Now consider that you advise someone to ignore the cancer therapy that has been prescribed to them, in order to seek what you believe is a cure. Consider that they listen to you and they get that treatment, which does nothing. Consider that they then get worse, and when they see their doctor again, they are told that their cancer has metastasized and their chances of survival have plummeted. Consider that they die, because while you advised them in good faith, you were wrong. What then? These things happen, because people like you, with good intentions, but no understanding, so adamantly hold onto their conspiracy theories that they don't consider the possible risks that come with them.


And yes to be fair you are right that somebody could get worse if they leave off a conventional treatment that might have worked and the 'alternative' treatment does not work. That is a valid point of concern and ALWAYS to be born in mind. But that is not the point I am making, I am saying that the full CHOICE of options should be made PUBLIC knowledge and the full range of research should be funded based on its MERITS - not according to completely unfair and unfounded judgements like those of Fishbein or Schram. ALL practioners of cancer treatment should be allowed to practice and patients can simply decide on taking a chance on something if they want to - it should be up to the individual. The risks are public knowledge and people can publicly SHARE information on how these treatments are working. If something like Rife really does work then it will become PUBLIC knowledge - it has not become so because all the labs were closed down and doctors and scientists were threatened from even using it, by the false and exhorbitant legal actions of the establishment. This is nothing short of Soviet style Stalinist dictatorship - it is like when they requisitioned all the food from the Ukraine and left millions to starve - nobody could do anything about it - and likewise nobody could do anything about what they did to Rife, just like nobody could do anything about what they did in Aushwitz concentration camp - its more of the same cr4p under a different guise.

And with regards to the good work being done in Sweden, indeed similar work has been attempted before, but has been discontinued due to lack of funding. The difference NOW is that this work has been made OPEN SOURCE, like the software model - that is the revolution - it is SHARING information rather than hiding it for purely personal benefit. The Swedish scientists are totally uninterested in profiteering from their discoveries - that whole hackneyed old theme just bores them - they are interested only in science. Rife was open source, well before the term was even coined, and he refused point blank to sell his technique to Fishbein. Now open source will revolutionize medicine, just like it has revolutionized computer technology. If you want to help people as you say - you have to support open source - without it cancer will not be cured - there's too much money at stake. Only open source has the power to crack open the cast iron safe of greed and selfishness. It is also highly significant that America the seat of unregulated capitalism, despite its technological advancement, lags FAR behind Europe in terms of cancer research.

Given you have mentioned the Nazis yourself, you might pause for reflection on the fact that most of the major pharmaceutical companies and other global industrial conglomerates derived their original wealth from the ACTIVITIES of the Nazis - and yes and you know exactly who I am talking about - IG Farben and the rest of the evil capitalists who engineered WWII, and put Hitler into power - because WAR MAKES MONEY, just like DISEASE MAKES MONEY. Many modern giant industrial companies can be traced back to IG Farben, the commercial company who created and ran the Nazi death camps, and furnished the whole multi-trillion dollar Nazi industrial machine - that is the kind of people whom you are dealing with and being brain-washed by, via the chain of FINANCIAL DEPENDENCE. Let it not surprise you then that denying millions of a cure for cancer is not really much of a big deal to them - and they won't lose any sleep over it.

As the old saying goes - THERE IS NO PROFIT IN PEACE
And now its modern counterpart - THERE IS NO PROFIT IN GOOD HEALTH

And you MUST read that book


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## alissadisa (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Pain killers, and physical therapy are the only treatment options that pain work.and the last a Any tingling/numbness should be checked by a doctor.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

Originally Posted by NoSocialButterfly 
"So, my dad looks like my dad has a cancerous growth/spot in his bladder for the 4th time in less than 2 years (awaiting biopsy results right now). And there is a cure out there that is being hidden just so doctors can keep making money on treatments that are ineffective? These doctors sure are profiting off my dad, no wonder they want to keep it a secret. Is that the gist of this argument? And how did my back pain thread turn into this? And oddly enough my back is feeling soooo much better, but I'm still having the left leg and foot issues. Anyway, would be nice if my dad could receive the cancer cure!"

Below is an excellent book - a must read for anyone affected by cancer, and an expose of the dark TRUTH about modern medicine. Read it and it will change your life :-

Knockout: Interviews with Doctors Who Are Curing Cancer--And How to Prevent Getting It in the First Place - Suzanne Somers
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knockout-In...qid=1387215856&sr=8-4&keywords=suzanne+somers

And this video is highly informative too :-

Cancer - The Forbidden Cures
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLrfNJICeM#t=15

I wish people on this forum would not feel the need to delete their posts so much - this is not a totalitarian state - you are free to express your opinion, even on controversial subjects! Stop being a victim - your voice should be heard.


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## Dimmie (Nov 17, 2013)

...if you fell at work before experiencing back trouble report it immediately, im serious, report any innury just to be safe. They will pay for your doctors care. I was in a carwreck some 12 years ago and didnt do **** cause i was stupid and thought I just had tight muscles, turns out I have several discs messed up. i get sciatica at times down my left leg to the knee, anything from the feeling its going to sleep to a sharp pain, sometimes i cant sleep. 
my doc thinks there may be a bonespur touching the nerve, get it xrayed pronto....get a second opinion if they want to do surgery. 
A heating pad may help or a hot bath with epsom salts and a cold beer...if you think its safe you can exercise to strengthen the muscles around it, just be carefull. The back is delicate, 
do you have pain in bending over to pick things up? Even picking a pencil off the floor puts great stress on your spine, when the disc are messed up that shock absorption is missing and it causes problems so go see a doctor.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

I mean sure you can go to a doctor and if they are in the mood, they may try and get to the bottom of your problem and find the cause, but don't expect them to do anything about it.

Nothing a doctor is going to do is ever going to have any lasting positive effects, and you will never return to a healthy state by relying on them alone. Going solely to a pain management clinic is simply a lost cause. No one ever gets well there.

You need to do exercises to strengthen your core so that less of your body weight is supported on your spine and more is supported on your core muscles. Include lots of stretches throughout your daily routine and stay active.

Improve your posture. Lose unnecessary weight if you are over weight by eating healthier, which most likely means that you need to learn to cook for yourself if you don't already. By cook, I mean from scratch and not using processed store bought junk.

Better insoles in your shoes can help, maybe orthotics if you want to try that as well.

If you have a specific injury, try physical therapy as well in addition to your exercises at home.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

Noca said:


> I mean sure you can go to a doctor and if they are in the mood, they may try and get to the bottom of your problem and find the cause, but don't expect them to do anything about it.
> 
> *Nothing a doctor is going to do is ever going to have any lasting positive effects, and you will never return to a healthy state by relying on them alone.* Going solely to a pain management clinic is simply a lost cause. No one ever gets well there.
> 
> ...


A totally great post !

I can testify from harsh experience that what you say is true.

Suffering from a chronic lower back pain for many years I received painkillers and physiotherapy from my doctors, but the problem still remained - periodically putting me off my feet for 1-2 weeks at a time, and bed-ridden. It was so painful I could not stand upright without support and I had to crawl around on the ground.

That was until I came across this book quite by accident by Osteopath Garry Trainer, who works with many high-profile celebrities including Paul McCartney (remember Paul McCartney's former wife Linda was all into the environment and natural health etc - you can be rest assured Paul will be very well versed on the whole natural health field) :-

*'Back Chat' by Garry Trainer*
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Chat-U...64044&sr=8-1&keywords=back+chat+garry+trainer

There are a set of exercises described in this book - for upper back and for lower back, floor based and standing exercises, and on tentatively trying them out I was amazed to find my back was transformed completely. I am sure that it was the exercise entitled 'rock and roll' which helped the most. And it cost me no money at all apart from the cost of the book.

I am now free of back pain for over 5 years. I don't even have to do the exercises regularly - I just do them when my back starts to get a bit painful, which is now quite rare. I can easily handle gardening and heavy lifting without any problems - before I was terrified my back would 'go'. I am always conscious though of my posture - all the time with everything I do - not just with heavy lifting, even sitting at a desk can damage your back.

So once again the service we get from our doctors is just not up to scratch - they appear to lack basic medical knowledge. There are times when we seek the doctors intervention - but for many health problems we have to take the initiative into our own hands and find out what is possible. Thankfully in the information age this is now becoming much easier.

.


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## Noca (Jun 24, 2005)

I mean in trauma situations from like a car crash or whatever, sure, western medical doctors are great to keep you alive and perform surgery and what not. If you have an infection from a foreign body, sure they can help with that. But as for chronic conditions, simply taking drugs alone and expecting the doctor to fix your situation ain't ever gonna happen.

Other than testing, there is practically no prevention oriented healthcare in our society coming from the medical community. The most you will get is "exercise and eat well", I mean sure. Nice generic information. So how do I do that? And are there any resources to help me go about doing that? Haha, good luck.

Being healthy isn't just the absence of disease, it is having your body functioning at an optimal level. A lot of western healthcare is focused at achieving the bare minimum, and maintaining the status quo of either being sick, or not really functioning that great at all.

Using short term fixes over the long term only leads to exhausting the available resources and bankrupting the healthcare and economy of a said society. A sick work force can't make money.


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

In a Lonely Place said:


> My back is ****ed and it's sucking the enjoyment out of my new job, manual work is all I was ever capable of but I'm going to destroy my organs with all the painkillers I throw down my neck everyday.


'Back Chat' by Garry Trainer
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Chat-Ul...+garry+trainer

Definitely check out this book - this is a top osteopath and his advice really does work, and my back problems were fixed very quickly on following the exercises in this book. Attending doctors never really helped me, all the painkillers and the completely inadequate physiotherapy I received from them were no good at all. I have been trouble free with my back for several years now even with heavy lifting I have no trouble at all - it can be surprising how easily a back problem can be fixed. Doctors and Pharma of course want you to keep coming back! Good luck


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

Back pain is really painful. Good luck getting a prescription for pain pills for back pain. They're afraid you'll get addicted to pills for pain that never stops anyway.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

WineKitty said:


> Although I would agree with sciatica I cannot help but strongly advise that you see a physician. *Any tingling/numbness should be checked by a doctor.*


Yes, just yesterday my brilliant GP was able to diagnose me with left ulnar nerve neuropathy. Which simply confirmed what I'd already diagnosed on my own.

I make things so easy for doctors by telling them what it is up front.:yes


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

WillYouStopDave said:


> Back pain is really painful. Good luck getting a prescription for pain pills for back pain. They're afraid you'll get addicted to pills for pain that never stops anyway.


Am I the only one who feels like b*tching about how Vicodin is now a C-II substance on par with morphine? That means all scripts must be in writing and there can be no refills. It had previously been a C-III, which allowed your doctor to fax or call in the script to the pharmacy and allowed for 5 refills. Now you need to transport a new scrap of paper from your doctor to the pharmacy for each & every fill. The DEA and its war on pain patients continues. Going to your doctor and hauling a script across town is, of course, the first thing you want to do when in agony, right? And it's not like anybody might have a job or anything better to do, so why not waste a couple hours on that.:mum

It's pure insanity and the DEA is accountable to nobody as they're not elected.

The tramadol my mother took for the last 13 years for arthritis without incident also went from being non-controlled to being a C-IV controlled substance. This means the script is only valid for 6 months instead of a year and refills are limited to 5. I fail to see anything at all addictive about it. Perviously her doc would write the script to cover a full year with 2,160 pills as he clearly didn't see any risk of a woman over the age of 80 becoming a junkie. Perhaps he could tell that addiction is self-limiting at such advanced ages (they die!).


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## WineKitty (Nov 26, 2004)

UltraShy said:


> Yes, just yesterday my brilliant GP was able to diagnose me with left ulnar nerve neuropathy. Which simply confirmed what I'd already diagnosed on my own.
> 
> I make things so easy for doctors by telling them what it is up front.:yes


I am strongly critical of doctors and some simple things can be "self diagnosed" but blowing off symptoms related to numbness can lead to a delay of treatment that could be tragic. I have seen it up close and personal.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## WillYouStopDave (Jul 14, 2013)

WineKitty said:


> I am strongly critical of doctors and some simple things can be "self diagnosed" but blowing off symptoms related to numbness can lead to a delay of treatment that could be tragic. I have seen it up close and personal.


 I need some tragedy related to my back. Maybe it can win an Oscar next year.


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## Zyriel (May 20, 2011)

Ohh I used to have such a horrid shoulder blade pain years ago. Got rid of it by getting a mattress pad, think it was caused by my old bed lol. Then just a different bed.

Lower back pain, again years ago now. That helped a bit by getting a belt that supports the spine, especially when doing a lot of bending or lifting and what not. Also, weight distribution, use your legs to lift and shift weight, not your back, causes problems. They have newer belts that have copper fibers or support, or something too that's supposedly helps the muscles. Have yet to try that though, but the increased support seems like it would be nice.

Turpentine oil and tiger balm is really good too for soothing aching muscles. Just like seeps in there and BURNS it away hahaha, ****ing just so glorious a feeling xD


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## starburst (Feb 5, 2013)

The fact is back pain can so often be easily cured by the correct back exercises and it is quite sad so many millions of people continue to suffer from it - but heh I guess its a good line of business for drug companies!


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## Tony9113 (May 10, 2015)

Sure you should go to a doctor. Only they will find the cause.


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## drdevendrasingh (May 11, 2015)

Doing regular exercise can be best method to avoid back pain ..


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