# Guys, it's time to lower your expectations



## Relaxation (Jul 12, 2010)

Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.

What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened." 

"Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


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## GnR (Sep 25, 2009)

Way to encourage people to throw in the towel.


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)




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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is good looking, interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.
> 
> What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened."
> 
> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


That's an issue that me & my wife still fight about, every day. After 16 years of being together. It doesn't just go away. It comes back to haunt me over & over again. It's the center of countless numbers of arguments and fights and sleepless nights and has caused resentment and hurt that I think won't every go away. Wish I had some advice to give...I'm trying to figure this out (still) myself.


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## the Prince of nowhere (Aug 11, 2010)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is good looking, interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.


those superficial "cute/pretty" girls aren't even worth it.


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## Cheeky (Apr 1, 2009)

strawberryjulius said:


>


OMG :haha:haha:haha

EXACTLY!


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

GnR said:


> Way to encourage people to throw in the towel.


Well, it's probably true 95% or more of the time. I sure don't see many exceptions to what OP describes in my everyday life. And I'm in college around lots of college-aged people of both genders, so my sample size isn't exactly small. (Although I'm not claiming absolute authority on the matter; if anyone else knows of numerous exceptions to this scenario in their everyday life, by all means speak up).

Whether you have the patience and drive to seek out the very few exceptions out there, and are prepared to deal with the pressure when/if you finally do find one (knowing it may be a once-in-a-lifetime shot), determines whether or not "throwing in the towel" is the best course of action.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

the Prince of nowhere said:


> those superficial "cute/pretty" girls aren't even worth it.


Just because they're cute doesn't mean they're superficial.

What it does mean is that they have a lot of options. The criteria they use to choose from among those options is up to them, obviously.

I think most girls, cute or no, would pass over guys with few friends, poor social skills, and an unexciting lifestyle given a large pool of options. I don't like it, but I'm not going to call them superficial just based on having a certain preference.


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## the Prince of nowhere (Aug 11, 2010)

So for us it's basically: hope for the best and take what you can get.


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## shynesshellasucks (May 10, 2008)

You are obviously right. Unless I become outgoing, maybe better looking I don't see myself getting anywhere. It's just the truth. I'm not going to throw the towel just yet though. I'm trying to work on becoming more social and just developing qualities about myself that will get girls more attracted to me. Having SA just makes it all difficult.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

This thread give me motivation to continue to overcome my SA. I already know that I am a decent person, as many here and in real life have stated to me directly. I need to come to terms with the fact that, yes, there are good people out there who will not judge me.....even women! Go figure! :doh :lol


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

I tried to lower my expectations many times now.........and its difficult to try and be with someone you feel you settled for.


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

Even if you lowered your expectations, that doesn't mean she won't want to go out or she won't have friends.


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## Futures (Aug 27, 2005)

nemesis1 said:


> I tried to lower my expectations many times now.........and its difficult to try and be with someone you feel you settled for.


Yeah. It's why most of us on this forum are single. You can't really date someone you're not into.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

What does it mean to 'lower expectations'?

All I expect is for the person I go out with and love, to love me back.

What exactly is the expectation I need to lower? It's not like I have to settle for a VW Beetle because i can't afford a Maserati. Women aren't objects that need to be categorized into the ones you can have and the one's you have to settle for.

I'm not going to 'lower' myself to the person who I feel comfortable with and who I can work with in a relationship and, shock horror, be happy with because she doesn't fit some preconceived idea of 'ideal'. And besides, the ideal of 'lowering' myself establishes two selfish ideals: 1. I am awesome and deserve to get what everyone else thinks is perfect and 2. the person I will be with doesn't deserve me but it's all I can get. Well. No. 

The idea of 'standards' in the first place is idiotic. How about someone who loves you? Try that for a standard.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

Why bother, all women are care about is money six pack abs and a nice car, am I rite?


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Perfectionist said:


> Why bother, all women are care about is money six pack abs and a nice car, am I rite?


Well, I got all three on eBay (the abs were hard to install) but still no luck!


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

because you bought a on convertible car, gotta be convertible silly.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

Ospi said:


> because you bought a on convertible car, gotta be convertible silly.


D'oh!


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

Selbbin said:


> What does it mean to 'lower expectations'?
> 
> All I expect is for the person I go out with and love, to love me back.
> 
> ...


You sir, are quite awesome.


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## coeur_brise (Oct 7, 2004)

> What does it mean to 'lower expectations'?
> 
> All I expect is for the person I go out with and love, to love me back.
> 
> ...


yes, three dittos for that post :ditto:ditto:ditto


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## Scottman200 (Feb 29, 2008)

What about this? How about I throw my expectations away, so they don't blind me from what I really see?


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## AliceSanKitchen (Aug 31, 2010)

Cute and pretty girls have SA too.

I feel sorry.. so sorry for the people out there for the cruel human beings in this world who will be with someone and consider them "the one i settled for". i see how this world works. and i bet this person will love them to death and think the world of them. and little do they know they are nothing but being settled for. people need to get a reality check. look at yourself, do something with yourself. are you even doing anything positive to make yourself decent enough for when a great girl comes along. please dont do out there and settle for someone. leave those people alone and let them find someone that will truly love and accept and not see them in that horrid way. i find it so disgusting. just settle for yourself, how about that.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

How low should we go?

My brother escaped 16 years of marriage to the most evil creature I've ever had the misfortune of encountering.

This 400 pound beast took our family for every cent she could get. My personal estimate is that she cost us around half a million dollars.

And, in case, you think I exaggerate about her massive size, at his memorial service, the front row for immediate family had chairs with arms. The funeral director had to get an uber-wide armless chair as her giant *** could not fit within the confines of what even a large male like me found to be abundantly spacious.

Unlike the late brother who had "Door mat" tattooed upon his back, I'd rather be alone if this is the other option.

If not for a fatal heart attack, he'd still be stuck with her. A year before his death I was forced to take action to cut him off entirely from our family's assets as he was nothing more than a conduit who moved every last cent of those assets to her. Drastic measures were required to keep her from dragging the rest of our family down with that sinking ship. If he was going to let her drag him down, despite our pleas, we had no choice but to cut him lose and let him sink on his own.

To this day she mystifies me. Some get power by brute force. Some get power by money. Some get power by sexual desirability. Lacking all of the above, I don't know what form of magic she used to keep him under her spell.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

Perfectionist said:


> Why bother, all women are care about is money six pack abs and a nice car, am I rite?


You are right. I read it in 16 threads this week, all stated by bitter guys, they know the truth.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

I need to make a humble correction though. Some people's expectations of a relationship are indeed too high in that they believe they will satisfy some idealistic dream of what they should want. 

So expectations perhaps should be lowered, in some cases, not just by SA but by everyone, in order to open themselves up to accept anyone who might come along and they mutually love.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

matty said:


> You are right. I read it in 16 threads this week, all stated by bitter guys, they know the truth.


Har har har! Cause that's _exactly_ what the OP of this thread said about women.

I guess it's OK to muck up legitimate discussion so long as it's feminists, or guys eager for their approval, doing it rather than "bitter guys." Duly noted.


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## Mr. Frostie (Nov 2, 2008)

As if all pretty girls are extroverts and only date guys to show off at social outings. Lame.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Selbbin said:


> What does it mean to 'lower expectations'?
> 
> All I expect is for the person I go out with and love, to love me back.
> 
> ...


Well, I agree with you on the fallacy of "settling" or "lowering your standards." It's bound to end in disaster for both parties and it's certainly never advisable.

However, I'd point out that the OP used the phrase "lower your *expectations*," which could just as easily mean "accept the possibility you won't meet anyone you're attracted to that feels the same back."

Women aren't objects, but they're subject to our personal preferences and judgments, just as we are to theirs. Recognizing that some are more desirable and attractive than others, in our personal judgment, is not equivalent to viewing them as Ferrari's and VW's.

"Someone who loves you" is a good starting point, but anyone who says that's their sole criteria for happiness with a partner is a liar.


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## jlotz123 (Dec 11, 2009)

melodymuffin said:


> Cute and pretty girls have SA too.


There's a powerful illusion that those types have no problems because they're incredibly good actors. They can appear sharp, happy, giggly and out going while hiding all their problems. Guess what? Us SA'ers look at them in confusion and thinking they're fake, and they don't need our attention because they can help themselves.

I bet that feels horrible on their part, because of their physical appearance we have a hard seeing their true problems. I bet they feel so alone, because who within their poppy social group would admit anything? Or this could all be in my head, maybe what I call an illusion is really the real deal and they are happy all the time.

***** if I know.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

anomalous said:


> However, I'd point out that the OP used the phrase "lower your *expectations*," which could just as easily mean "accept the possibility you won't meet anyone you're attracted to that feels the same back."
> 
> Women aren't objects, but they're subject to our personal preferences and judgments, just as we are to theirs. Recognizing that some are more desirable and attractive than others, in our personal judgment, is not equivalent to viewing them as Ferrari's and VW's.
> 
> "Someone who loves you" is a good starting point, but anyone who says that's their sole criteria for happiness with a partner is a liar.


Yeah, I understood that a bit later and realised I was swaying a little off track, and I agree, so I added a post a bit later. Expectations and standards are different, depending on context, so I guess my rant didn't address the OP directly. Oops.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*

Before you lower your expectations about relationships/women and dating, revise your expectations of yourself. Because you have a certain idea about yourself based on many things including experiences. Experiences taught you a lot and some of the stuff they taught you isn't worth listening to. You think of yourself as quiet. Yet quiet is not a person. It's a behaviour. You think of yourself as being socially awkward. But that's a behaviour too and not a person. Having no friends is also not a person. It's a circumstance.

And above all, revise the expectation about yourself that you somehow know what all women want, will find attractive and that you're not any of those things.


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## matty (Nov 2, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Har har har! Cause that's _exactly_ what the OP of this thread said about women.
> 
> I guess it's OK to muck up legitimate discussion so long as it's feminists, or guys eager for their approval, doing it rather than "bitter guys." Duly noted.


I am just sick of reading the same overblown **** by guys. The girls side is a lot more balanced. I use to back the guys on principle, until I got sick of reading the generalized bitter story. At the end of the day keep pushing your story, all you are doing is putting yourself and guys like you down by saying your not good enough for any woman.


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## BetaBoy90 (Jan 5, 2010)

I just came out of my hole to see if the sun still exists, I was in no way coming out to meet women...


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## Duke of Prunes (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm not lowering my expectations and standards because some internet guy who doesn't know me tells me to.

I'm not quiet or socially awkward, get a few drinks into me and I'm as loud, talkative, fun and most importantly, alpha as it gets. That's _me_, not the quiet, socially awkward loser that manifests when I become anxious.

This thread motivated me, not to lower my expectations, but to work even harder at breaking through SA, so I don't end up whining on the internet about how girls don't like me. Thanks for the motivation boost! :yes


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.
> 
> What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened."
> 
> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


First, people are all different and they have different wants, needs and desires, so to say that all women are "X,Y,Z" is wrong. You can be social awkward or very social and still be single or in a relationship. This means your missing an important realization: what two people want. That's all it comes down to. If one person wants the other but the other doesn't then there is a no-go. Just understand that social prowess would typically have no bearing on that (typically). To prove my point, when I had social anxiety in my teens more girls approached me and liked me than they do now (which is zilch nowadays). My anxiety had little influence on what girls wanted from me.

I've been having people come over to my new apartment every weekend and being social. Does it help me none? No. If a girl/guy sees something about you they like and want then it doesn't matter how social or awkward you are because they want you. It is really as simple as that. That is why you see people with social anxiety with girlfriends/boyfriends; what ever someone finds attractive in you then that's it. I've seen weird-*** couples together I wouldn't even of betted on being together, but they are. Just shows you that everybody is different and it is really just a matter of putting yourself out there and meeting the right person.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

matty said:


> I am just sick of reading the same overblown **** by guys. The girls side is a lot more balanced. I use to back the guys on principle, until I got sick of reading the generalized bitter story. At the end of the day keep pushing your story, all you are doing is putting yourself and guys like you down by saying your not good enough for any woman.


Yup. Reality may be even worse. Maybe you guys just are just undesirable. No gimmicks, no hoax, but just as simple as that. That's reality.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

Selbbin said:


> What does it mean to 'lower expectations'?
> 
> All I expect is for the person I go out with and love, to love me back.
> 
> ...


In theory that sounds great, but people's standards are often a lot more biologically rooted and simple morals don't cut it.

Really, what is love anyway? Or, what is love with the opposite sex? Don't you have love already in your life from friends or family? I think when people talk about "love", as directed toward the opposite sex (relationship), what they really mean is attraction. The more your attracted to something, the more you want to possess it and the more you become infatuated. I'm an arrogant jerk, but someone prove me wrong here, please.


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## Ape in space (May 31, 2010)

Perfectionist said:


> Why bother, all women are care about is money six pack abs and a nice car, am I rite?


These things are easy to acquire compared to the ability to have a simple conversation.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

My wife and I totally "clicked" when we met. It felt right from the moment I met her, and she felt the same way.

The issues with my SA never went away though, they were just shoved aside & ignored because we got married, concieved our first child on our honeymoon, had twins 2 years later...life has been a roller coaster. It's been easy to avoid my issues.

I never thought I was going out with a BMW or a VW Beetle. It never entered my mind. For quite a few years we were very happy with each other, and that's all that mattered to each of us. I still think she's as beautiful today as the day I met her.

What I'm saying is, the issue with my SA didn't go away...it's been dormant for quite a few years & now it's at the center of every argument, including the ones about us getting divorced.

It won't go away. The concept of "dating up" or "dating down" is such BS. And...just because you finally meet someone you feel right with, someone that you're sure is your soulmate, doesn't mean the issues disappear. In my case it was allowed to fester over the years. Now it's something that I think we should have talked about in the first few months we met...not 16 years later.

There is no "settling" for somone. The things that really matter when you're on your deathbed, are not "did I date up, did I have a trophy wife, did I impress everyone with who I hooked up with?"

What matters in the end is how are you going to deal with yourself. I realize this sounds so cliche, but if you can't fix your self and learn to love yourself, no one else is going to do it for you. And in the end you will be left with yourself.


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## saika (Sep 17, 2010)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for.
> ...
> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


So just find a girl who's as introverted as you are! My last relationship was characterised by me wanting to stay home and my boyfriend wanting to go out all the time. Being pressured to be social made my anxiety even worse, because for the first time I felt really bad about my introversion. But there are plenty of pretty girls who are introverted and socially awkward...it's just harder to meet them, because it's not like they're hanging out at the bar.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

saika said:


> So just find a girl who's as introverted as you are! My last relationship was characterised by me wanting to stay home and my boyfriend wanting to go out all the time. Being pressured to be social made my anxiety even worse, because for the first time I felt really bad about my introversion. But there are plenty of pretty girls who are introverted and socially awkward...it's just harder to meet them, because it's not like they're hanging out at the bar.


Most of us would love nothing more. But if you spend some time browsing SAS, you'll find numerous girls saying things like, "I really want an outgoing partner to balance out my introversion and shyness."

And I know this is purely anecdotal, but several of the shyer, more low-key girls I've known IRL have been particularly demanding of an "exciting" guy. They consistently sought out relationships that would be a package deal, bundled with an active social life and set of new friends (the guy's). On the other hand, I've never known a shy guy with an affinity for really outgoing girls -- and I know plenty of shy/awkward guys since they're the only ones I get on with. :lol

There are simply more shy guys who want to date a shy girl than vice-versa, in my experience. So finding a "pretty," shy girl who actually wants to date a shy guy can be quite a task, for more reasons than their not hanging out at the bar.


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## InThe519 (Sep 21, 2009)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.
> 
> What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened."
> 
> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


Harsh as this is, this is TRUTH.


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## emptybottle2 (Jan 18, 2009)

anomalous said:


> On the other hand, I've never known a shy guy with an affinity for really outgoing girls -- and I know plenty of shy/awkward guys since they're the only ones I get on with. :lol


Really? Maybe most shy guys IRL aren't the same as the self-desribed nerdy/awkward guys that frequent internet message boards (including the whole PUA culture), because it seems like most of those guys want the stereotypically hot party girls.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

emptybottle2 said:


> Really? Maybe most shy guys IRL aren't the same as the self-desribed nerdy/awkward guys that frequent internet message boards (including the whole PUA culture), because it seems like most of those guys want the stereotypically hot party girls.


Hmm. To me, shy/SA guys and PUA guys are two entirely different groups that don't seem to have that much overlap. I don't know anyone IRL who's into PUA (but then I doubt they'd admit it if they were). I guess I'm talking more about really reserved, low-key guys who don't have much to do with the party scene, and probably lack the self-confidence to even try PUA stuff.

As for the "stereotypically hot party girl," I think it's important to separate the two components of that description. Hot? Sure, what hetero guy isn't at least somewhat fixated on a girls' looks? But I certainly don't think most shy, reserved guys are after a "stereotypical party girl." Quite the opposite in many, many cases (though not all, I'm sure). My impression reading SAS has always been that the vast majority of us guys are very much interested in introverted women.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

I would've said the same thing when I was younger. But it is a bit of a myopic view. 


Why are you letting the girl dictate what you do for your birthday party? Why do you have to impress her? We shouldn't she be impressing you? 

It all basically comes down to self-esteem and confidence.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

VanDamMan said:


> Why are you letting the girl dictate what you do for your birthday party? Why do you have to impress her? We shouldn't she be impressing you?


Because she'll leave you for someone more exciting and socially-connected if you want to stay in all the time?

Already happened to me once.

Confidence is a factor, but I think a lot of girls will still get bored even if you're confident in your introverted lifestyle.


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## stranger25 (Apr 29, 2010)

anomalous said:


> Most of us would love nothing more. But if you spend some time browsing SAS, you'll find numerous girls saying things like, "I really want an outgoing partner to balance out my introversion and shyness."
> 
> And I know this is purely anecdotal, but several of the shyer, more low-key girls I've known IRL have been particularly demanding of an "exciting" guy. They consistently sought out relationships that would be a package deal, bundled with an active social life and set of new friends (the guy's). On the other hand, I've never known a shy guy with an affinity for really outgoing girls -- and I know plenty of shy/awkward guys since they're the only ones I get on with. :lol
> 
> There are simply more shy guys who want to date a shy girl than vice-versa, in my experience. So finding a "pretty," shy girl who actually wants to date a shy guy can be quite a task, for more reasons than their not hanging out at the bar.


that's pretty much it.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

I don't like the idea of 'standards'. They seem to imply that I have a certain expectation of what I should be getting, which is rediculous. I've never heard of anything more rediculous. Those jocks that I used to work with spoke of standards, and good luck to those guys I say. They spoke of woman like pieces of meat.


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## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

Double facepalm seconded.

I have friends. I can handle going out, just as long as it's not too frequent or too much. Sometimes I win and sometimes SA wins, that's the problem. Also, I do actually enjoy going out if it's something that is not particularly social, like going to see a show or game.

But I guess I'm just unlovable except by those I couldn't stand to be in a relationship with. :roll


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

anomalous said:


> Because she'll leave you for someone more exciting and socially-connected if you want to stay in all the time?
> 
> Already happened to me once.
> 
> Confidence is a factor, but I think a lot of girls will still get bored even if you're confident in your introverted lifestyle.


That particular girl might. There are others though. You won't know it because they don't stickout the same way boring popular girls do.

I'm talking about changing your lifestyle though. You don't have to party it up with tons of friends. How about going to a movie. Or going to see a band and hang out in the background.

You don't need a ton of friends. But you do need to be actively interested in your own life.

No one really wants to hang out at home every Friday night, its just safer and easier.


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## sacred (May 25, 2009)

Relaxation said:


> What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened."


what im i going to do? il get rid of her or ask if she wants to be **** friends.

at this point ive already got what i wanted anyway. when the fun stuff is over and the pressure is on to be more social its time to swat the fly.


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## accepting myself (Jun 27, 2010)

SickPuppy said:


> My wife and I totally "clicked" when we met. It felt right from the moment I met her, and she felt the same way.
> 
> The issues with my SA never went away though, they were just shoved aside & ignored because we got married, concieved our first child on our honeymoon, had twins 2 years later...life has been a roller coaster. It's been easy to avoid my issues.
> 
> ...


So the issues between you and your wife are that she wants to lead a social life now? If she knows you have SA she should understand you a little better. In any case I am really sorry you are going through this after 16 years it would be sad if it ended in divorce :|


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## CuartaVez (Dec 8, 2009)

Sorry, but i believe the standards thing has merit. None of the girls i've been with so far (whopping total of 3... n i'm almost 30.. big popular me) have been girls physically n otherwise who i just felt like were all i could settle for, and i was never truly satisfied or happy. It most certainly didn't feel good having other folks giggle at me or look at me funny when i was seen with them in public. If you're a decent-looking guy, with good morals and a head on his shoulder... why should you settle for a trashy, ugly broad? 'Cause you're too shy to go after the good-looking girls on your level? So then what, you're just gonna settle for whatever you can get? Nah trust me, you DON'T wanna fall into that trap. I know this may sound insensitive on certain levels, but i dunno how else to say it, it's the truth.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

accepting myself said:


> So the issues between you and your wife are that she wants to lead a social life now? If she knows you have SA she should understand you a little better. In any case I am really sorry you are going through this after 16 years it would be sad if it ended in divorce :|


In all fairness to her, my SA got *much *worse after we met. But it was there. We're realizing we're two very different people. Just an example, she probably has 500 friends, maybe more, on her fb account. And she knows them, she knows and is friends with most of them. She's a school teacher. she can't go into Walmart or a pizza joint without two dozen people recognizing her. And she loves it most of the time.

I hide from people.

I had this sick feeling in my stomach the week that we met, that this might be a problem that would never go away. Maybe I should have listened to that voice in my head?

Anyway here I go giving advice when I'm in no place to be giving advice.

Just saying...do you have your head together? Are you ready for a relationship? Before you worry about "dating up" or "dating down"...maybe you need to be asking why you're trying to date all.


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## FireSoks (Sep 19, 2010)

> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for.


Ok, so those are qualities that you possess. I possess those same qualities and am in a relationship. Accept those qualities and work with what you have. Despite that, I'm sure you still have a great personality and hobbies of interest.



> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


What _I_ would do is end up dragging you along anyway. Seriously. It's what my boyfriend did to me and I ended up loving his friends despite the constant fears of how they may judge and size me up. If a female is truly feeling a connection towards you she is going to want you to meet her friends. That is a good thing. There's going to have to be some compromise. 
I currently have no friends while my guy has a hearty social circle, and he couldn't care less.

Very interesting discussion. Not sure I can add much but I'm looking forward to the responses.

To describe a sort of role reversal response from my experience, my boyfriend of two years took the initiative to meet me. I'm not outgoing to say the least, so maybe I was lucky to have met him. I'm sure in the very beginning I displayed few signs of suffering from SA, but as time went by it started to progress. I certainly had qualities I sought in a partner despite being disinterested in a relationship at the time.

Outgoing? check. Good social circle? check. Good sense of humor and intelligent? sure.

Typical thought process or not, I thought he could help me branch out of my shell a bit. Anyway, as time went by I started to learn that his social circle isn't so big, he stumbles verbally, and he can get very uncomfortable in certain social situations. Boy was that a relief. Here I was thinking I had so much to amount to in order to "hold" onto him in future years as if he were settling for me, when we were more similar than I could have ever imagined.

Better yet, despite the differences we do have in personality, his outgoingness has not helped me thoroughly with my anxiety. I envy his desirable traits from time to time. Working on it!

As for the SA I deal with (which is much worse than his) he is very understanding and willing to do whatever to help me overcome certain issues.

Granted, if it ever got to a certain degree I could understand how it could be problematic and threatening to a relationship. Now again, this is my particular situation with having met someone. There are certainly possibilities people!

P.S.- If I ever heard my boyfriend announce he settled for me I would drop him in a heartbeat, anxiety or not. We both know there are plenty of fish in the sea despite being in a relationship. :|


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

*hmm*



anomalous said:


> Most of us would love nothing more. But if you spend some time browsing SAS, you'll find numerous girls saying things like, "I really want an outgoing partner to balance out my introversion and shyness."
> 
> And I know this is purely anecdotal, but several of the shyer, more low-key girls I've known IRL have been particularly demanding of an "exciting" guy. They consistently sought out relationships that would be a package deal, bundled with an active social life and set of new friends (the guy's). On the other hand, I've never known a shy guy with an affinity for really outgoing girls -- and I know plenty of shy/awkward guys since they're the only ones I get on with. :lol
> 
> There are simply more shy guys who want to date a shy girl than vice-versa, in my experience. So finding a "pretty," shy girl who actually wants to date a shy guy can be quite a task, for more reasons than their not hanging out at the bar.


I can feel shy quite a lot of the time, particularly as the battle between my self love and self hatred reaches fever pitch. But I go out a lot, have a good circle of friends, have dated and been in relationships and meet new people on a regular basis. So, which nonsense category for people do I fit into? Shyness is a behaviour not a person. "shy guy" is a bit like saying "hey, that guy is a toilet guy". Occasionally that guy will use the loo but the fact that he occasionally uses the loo does not sum him up as a person.

There's merit to finding someone on your wavelength. But that's not the same as making daft judgements about yourself and sweeping judgements about women. You look at a girl and think: "oh, that girl's really outgoing and not shy because I say she isn't shy so she wouldn't be right for me". Well, again, shyness is a behaviour not a person. We can all be shy at some time in our lives. It does not define who we are and not everyone sees it as much as we think they do. But all of those views and judgements on the woman are assumptions. She might be right for you, she might not.

If you feel more comfortable being in a relationship with someone who you feel is on the same page as far as SA or shyness or whatever, good. But nobody on here is limited. Nobody on here has to settle. People do not sit in categories and life is not a science experiment and sometimes, when you think you know how the world works, something happens to prove just how wrong you can be in those situations.

It's not time to lower your expectations. On here, your expectations themselves are the problem. A lot of negative experiences have informed you and bled into your identity construct/self image. So they are familiar and you act as if they are always and automatically true about you. You expect that you are such and such and can only go for/should only go for such and such a type of girl. Keep an open mind about the nature of the self, how other people see you and what dating has to offer. And validate the self through the self.


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

Theres many people in this world who are perfectly happy that someone 'settled' for them.

Ask my friend for example,. Many people would (and have) look at him and his girlfriend looks wise and automatically assume that she must have settled for him. But my friend knows that and it doesnt bother him as he openly admits he was very lucky to get with her and the chances of him getting another girl liker her are very slim.


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

So because she's attractive she must have settled?


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

strawberryjulius said:


> So because she's attractive she must have settled?


Thats what the vast majority of people assume, yes.


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## Magaly (Mar 8, 2010)

melodymuffin said:


> Cute and pretty girls have SA too.
> 
> I feel sorry.. so sorry for the people out there for the cruel human beings in this world who will be with someone and consider them "the one i settled for". i see how this world works. and i bet this person will love them to death and think the world of them. and little do they know they are nothing but being settled for. people need to get a reality check. look at yourself, do something with yourself. are you even doing anything positive to make yourself decent enough for when a great girl comes along. please dont do out there and settle for someone. leave those people alone and let them find someone that will truly love and accept and not see them in that horrid way. i find it so disgusting.


agreed... this thread is depressing.


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## sabueed (May 8, 2008)

Screw that. I will never lower my standards


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## Pure Phobia (Apr 29, 2010)

sabueed said:


> Screw that. I will never lower my standards


Yep. Our standards will lower us (as in everyone). :blank


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## DeeperUnderstanding (May 19, 2007)

I'm thinking about trying to date a girl who I'm not attracted to. All the ones I'm attracted to, aren't attracted to me. 

So yeah, it's time to lower expectations.


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## amoeba (May 19, 2010)

Funny that long time members get banned for "trolling" when real live trolls like this one freely roam the halls, baiting everyone in sight.


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## TheGreatPretender (Sep 6, 2010)

amoeba said:


> funny that long time members get banned for "trolling" when real live trolls like this one freely roam the halls, baiting everyone in sight.


qft


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## Relaxation (Jul 12, 2010)

amoeba said:


> Funny that long time members get banned for "trolling" when real live trolls like this one freely roam the halls, baiting everyone in sight.


Yeah because people who have a different viewpoint from you must be "trolling". I find it ironic that you're the one who decided to click and read my thread and then reply to it?!

*Here's an idea guys: Why not add me to your "ignore list"? Then you won't ever have to read any of my threads again. Then you can continue to live in the comfort of only reading posts by people who agree with all your opinions.*


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## coldsorehighlighter (Jun 2, 2010)

If I lowered my standards, it'd mean I would be with a female who I was hiding something from. I would feel like I was acting...lying...and I'd be paranoid she'd see right through that.



I think instead of saying "lower your standards", you might mean "change your standards" instead.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> I tried to lower my expectations many times now.........and its difficult to try and be with someone you feel you settled for.


The problem with this mindset is that you have a lack of confidence in yourself. Any woman you happen to date is a woman you've settled for because you believe she isn't up to snuff if she's willing to be with you. That's just my opinion.


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## Brightpaperwarewolf (Oct 16, 2008)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.
> 
> What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened."
> 
> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


It's interesting, this paragraph is exactly how I perceive women. I feel I have to make an effort for this, when this is for that type of **** I can't stand. Pressured to attend social get-togethers, pressured to win over her friends, pressured to do that, pressured to do that, pressured to be someone who I am not. I don't want to go out with a woman just because I look cute to her friends or I'm the only interesting man alive. I'm not going to go out with anyone to satisfy what my friends think. It's repulsive and shows that she's self-absorbed and doesn't care.

I dunno, this confirms how I always felt and the last girlfriend I had fits this mold to a tee. Everything was about image and it sickens me.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm not lowering my standards for anyone - I've worked too damn hard to become who I am! In fact, none of us should!

Btw, I commend you, Relaxation, for providing us with yet another quality thread. You must really think highly of your fellow SASers!


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

Neptunus said:


> I'm not lowering my standards for anyone - I've worked too damn hard to become who I am! In fact, none of us should!
> 
> Btw, I commend you, Relaxation, for providing us with yet another quality thread. You must really think highly of your fellow SASers.


I'm guessing we won't be dating any time soon then.


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

strawberryjulius said:


> I'm guessing we won't be dating any time soon then.


If only I didn't like the mighty peen... :b


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## MichaelWesten (Jan 27, 2010)

Great advice.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

lol @ relaxation's new avatar. How is this troll not banned?


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## MichaelWesten (Jan 27, 2010)

Ospi said:


> lol @ relaxation's new avatar. How is this troll not banned?


Because he's not a "troll", he's just "misunderstood" and "thought provoking"


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

Michael Westen is banned though. This is really getting hilarious. Every time I look up somebody is getting banned. And I can't ever figure out why.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

I've gotta agree. BTW, I've been under a rock avoiding the whole world in general for the last 6 weeks.

Can anyone tell me why Winekitty was permanently banned.

WTF????


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

stylicho said:


> Michael Westen is banned though. This is really getting hilarious. Every time I look up somebody is getting banned. And I can't ever figure out why.


He's not banned, his wall is still open for comment. Plus, permanently is misspelled (on purpose, I'm guessing.) If you were joking, then "my bad!" :b


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

stylicho said:


> Every time I look up somebody is getting banned. And I can't ever figure out why.


He's not banned. I think it's just a new trend to write that as your status.

Treed. You people move fast.


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm surprised I'm still here.


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## shyvr6 (Feb 18, 2008)

SickPuppy said:


> Can anyone tell me why Winekitty was permanently banned.


 http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f52/winekitty-92887/


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## Perfectionist (Mar 19, 2004)

How did this thread suddenly become about bannages? In case you guys don't remember, there are standards to be lowered here!


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> He's not banned, his wall is still open for comment. Plus, permanently is misspelled (on purpose, I'm guessing.) If you were joking, then "my bad!"


Oh. No, that is my bad lol. I didn't even realize the permamently thing . Thanks for setting me straight.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> I'm surprised I'm still here.


You're not the only one. That's in reference to myself lol


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## Judi (Jun 22, 2009)

MichaelWesten said:


> Because he's not a "troll", he's just "misunderstood" and "thought provoking"


Oblivious also comes to mind.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> How did this thread suddenly become about bannages? In case you guys don't remember, there are standards to be lowered here!


Oh, sorry about that. Carry on!


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## CuartaVez (Dec 8, 2009)

How dare you lower your standards to discussing banned members?! Obviously if they were banned they must be bad people!


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## VanDamMan (Nov 2, 2009)

The banning really needs to get more creative. How about filtering the person so the can't use the letter "e" or "i" or the word "the"


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## Blue Bird (Jun 28, 2004)

Sometimes I feel like when other people have "issues", they won't be understanding to want people like themselves that are struggle through the same thing. The set their standards higher and op for people that are so completely different than them and can't relate to what they're going through. They see the outgoing, pretty type girls and go for them. It seems to be a way of rejecting our own imperfections and opting to idolize or envy the perceived perfection in others. The shy, quiet, awkward guy doesn't always want the shy, quiet, awkward girl. They want something else, something they see, or have been told, is perfect and better, but not necessarily is. I think the "lowering of standards" should be willing to accept and/or understand the same flaws in others that we possess in ourselves. It's like the overweight guy that doesn't want and overweight girlfriend. It's that self hate in ourselves that sometimes leaves no compassion towards others when we see the same flaws. We reject in others what we reject in ourselves. It doesn't help that women and men are held to different beauty/body image standards either.


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## Blue Bird (Jun 28, 2004)

WintersTale said:


> I'm thinking about trying to date a girl who I'm not attracted to. All the ones I'm attracted to, aren't attracted to me.
> 
> So yeah, it's time to lower expectations.


Think of it as not lowering your standards, but redefining what you consider as beautiful. I know when I stopped straightening my hair and cut is real short (for me beauty meant long straight hair, that requires hours of styling and lots of damage) I had to redefine what beauty meant to me because how I looked them was completely opposite and I wanted to feel good about myself. This bold hair move changed my whole outlook on beauty, imperfections, and how I see and feel about myself. It's a constant expression of self love when I see my hair (and myself) in the mirror and I am much more open to those who are imperfect or "ugly" to other people.


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## Star Zero (Jun 1, 2010)

Relaxation said:


> Being socially awkward, quiet, and friend-less do not seem like qualities that cute/pretty girls are looking for. They can choose a guy who is interesting, makes them laugh, has lots of fun at social get-togethers, and makes their girl friends jealous. Or they can go out with a guy who spends their free time by themself.
> 
> What are you going to do when it's an event like your birthday and she says, "Let's go out with your friends and have a fun night out! I know this great restaurant that just opened."
> 
> "Sorry, but I'd rather stay in since I don't have any friends. I also don't want to socialize with your friends because talking to people gives me anxiety. Instead, the two of us can play board games and watch TV."


What's with all these posts by guys about not being good enough for girls? And why the hell would you want a girl like you've described in the first place then???

I'm a girl and i'd prefer to stay home and cuddle up with some tv, i really don't get where you're going with this post...it just sounds like a straight up complaint with no purpose. Find yourself a for-real girl.


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## anomalous (Jun 12, 2004)

Blue Bird said:


> Sometimes I feel like when other people have "issues", they won't be understanding to want people like themselves that are struggle through the same thing. The set their standards higher and op for people that are so completely different than them and can't relate to what they're going through. They see the outgoing, pretty type girls and go for them. It seems to be a way of rejecting our own imperfections and opting to idolize or envy the perceived perfection in others. *The shy, quiet, awkward guy doesn't always want the shy, quiet, awkward girl. They want something else, something they see, or have been told, is perfect and better, but not necessarily is.*


You're completely right about all this on principle, but the bolded strikes me as ironic. Just about every poll and discussion on SAS (that I've seen, anyway) has lent credence to the idea that shy _girls_ thumb their noses at shy _guys_ more often than vice-versa.

Anyone who's been here any length of time would likely agree that *most* guys on SAS say they'd love a relationship with a shy girl. On the other side of the fence, some girls have said likewise, but a lot have instead said something roughly along the lines of: "I'd really like an outgoing guy to help balance out my personality and motivate me to change." Which I sometimes have to laugh at, since I believe it's often *exactly* the phenomenon you're describing. (And, to be clear, I'd feel the same if a guy thought this way).

Bottom line: the vast majority of guys on SAS would be elated to have an average-looking shy, introverted, even awkward girl interested in them. So, in the context of this thread and the OP, I think your advice may be a bit like preaching to the choir, true as it is.


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## Post_Punk_Proclivity (Oct 12, 2008)

It seems the term 'troll' gets a little hackneyed after a while. It also seems that those of us with SA can also be quite judgmental of sorts and intolerable to anothers view point if it doesn't fit into our own ideals. Honestly it's probably the only downfall of this place.


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## TenYears (Jan 15, 2010)

shyvr6 said:


> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f52/winekitty-92887/


I've got too many other issues to deal with right now...

but that seems liks a motherf*cking shame.

This site is worse off for not having her here.


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## nemesis1 (Dec 21, 2009)

anomalous said:


> You're completely right about all this on principle, but the bolded strikes me as ironic. Just about every poll and discussion on SAS (that I've seen, anyway) has lent credence to the idea that shy _girls_ thumb their noses at shy _guys_ more often than vice-versa.
> 
> Anyone who's been here any length of time would likely agree that *most* guys on SAS say they'd love a relationship with a shy girl. On the other side of the fence, some girls have said likewise, but a lot have instead said something roughly along the lines of: "I'd really like an outgoing guy to help balance out my personality and motivate me to change." Which I sometimes have to laugh at, since I believe it's often *exactly* the phenomenon you're describing. (And, to be clear, I'd feel the same if a guy thought this way).
> 
> Bottom line: the vast majority of guys on SAS would be elated to have an average-looking shy, introverted, even awkward girl interested in them. So, in the context of this thread and the OP, I think your advice may be a bit like preaching to the choir, true as it is.


it goes something like this;

Extrovert women generally want confident guys, not shy guys.

Introvert women generally want confident guys, not shy guys.

So that leaves a massive short fall in women for us shy guys. Ok, I'm not saying that ALL women fall into these catergories, but in my 30 years of life, this is generally what i see happening most of the time.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

It may have a lot to do with the ancient and still common view of a man's strength and courage; almost the warrior credo. Shy men in native American society were shamed, as the overt/confident warriors were the pride of their tribe. Shy men were often expelled in shame from the tribe or treated poorly. 

Being shy goes against the masculine stereotypes still influencing breeding and natural selection through genetic programming to mate with the 'Alpha male.' It boils down to protection from threats. Fortunately we have complex enough brains and emotional sensitivity to make this not a hard and fast rule, and shy people are not as excluded from society as they were in tribal times. But for the most part instinct still plays a strong part in mating; we still attract each other through smell, dance, and colour (fashion) just like many animal and bird species. Aggression and assertiveness form part of this; often seen in the 'Bad Boy' effect - girls liking Bad Boys.

Shy lions don't get nooky. Only the assertive ones do.

It's very interesting stuff.


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## Nathan18 (Sep 15, 2009)

Jaiyyson said:


> It seems the term 'troll' gets a little hackneyed after a while. It also seems that those of us with SA can also be quite judgmental of sorts and intolerable to anothers view point if it doesn't fit into our own ideals. Honestly it's probably the only downfall of this place.


Exactly that. I've seen it used way more here than any other forum I've been on. Just because someone has a different view point to you, doesn't make them a troll.

The OP is correct in some ways, but I'm going to assume that the majority of guys here don't have any girls interested in them. Lowering your own standards won't make a difference.


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## percyblueraincoat (Jun 2, 2009)

nemesis1 said:


> it goes something like this;
> 
> Extrovert women generally want confident guys, not shy guys.
> 
> ...


My first response to that is: okay then, you've got yourself a road map there. You think most women are interested in guys in the way you've described above. So, go be that guy then. Go be the confident, not shy guy. Then the guy turns round and says: love to but it's not that easy or simple. And I say: you confident about that? And the guy says: yes, I am confident about that.

Every time you observe a woman and call her "introvert", you're making a judgement. You're observing, assuming, interpreting and placing meaning into things. Sometimes you get it right. A lot of the time you get it wrong. Then you see this woman you just judged to be "introverted" get with a guy and you then make a whole list of assumptions and judgements about why she went for that guy. Some of them may be right, some of them are quite possibly totally wrong. But once the assumption of a pattern has been made, it can be hard for the "head space thinkers" to drop it.

I've heard talk on this thread about people ignoring their "imperfections". What imperfections? So much confidence and absnece of shyness in telling the world that you're apparently defective. Are you not perfect? Well, maybe. So's the rest of the world.

Expectations are powerful things. You think of yourself in a negaitve way. You expect others to treat you as if they can automatically see the same negative stuff you believe about yourself. You expect that this or that woman won't go for you but that's not enough to protect the belief system so a reason has to be found. Extrovert women have to exist beyond the daft, tired labels of psychology and these women have to be interested in only one type of guy the whole of their lives and you have to know what this is. Same with so called introverted girls. Life is not a science experiment, people do not fit snugly into categories and the negative whispers are more often wrong then they are right.

Some people so want to believe that someone with SA should go for what they pereceive to be "introverted/shy etc" girls. Well, these things are behaviours and habits not people. People on here are already living their lives as if their SA defines them and how exactly is that working out for them?

You might find that you've got nothing in common with the so called "outgoing girl" if you asked her out. Or you might find out that, despite the front she puts up in social situations, she is actually quite shy in certain situations. But because you decided to make rash, sweeping judgements about so called "types of people", you didn't get the chance to discover that.

Massive short fall in women for us shy guys? Seriously? Stop defining yourself based on a behaviour or habit. I say that with the utmost respect and care. There's going to be women who are interested in you and women who are not. And sometimes it might be because, in one situation or another, they thought you were shy and maybe they didn't want someone they thought of as shy. That's possible. But so is being rejected for all kinds of different reasons you may not even comprehend because of the negative belief systems in the head. Maybe she makes the sweeping judgement that you're too outgoing or way to attractive for her to be comfortable seeing you in a social group with a group of girls.

She might also say yes, regardless of whether you think she is shy, introverted, extroverted, from Mars...

Yes, you can lower your expectations and imprison yourself in negative ideas about people and yourself. Or you can recognise that there's always going to be other guys out there who are more attractive. And those other guys who are more attractive, more confident, more outgoing etc are going to feel insecure when they meet someone they think is more attractive, more outgoing etc. And the girls probably got some insecurities about herself too, no matter how outgoing or confident she looks. You can recognise that maybe, just maybe, girls won't see the negative stuff you imagine about yourself and that, if she rejects you, she's rejecting an idea not a person. It's not an automatica trigger to start the old, negative, not good enough thought patterns of dismissal of the self. No, nobody has that power or the authority to get you to do that. You're good enough regardless.


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## stylicho (Nov 8, 2003)

> Shy men in native American society were shamed, as the overt/confident warriors were the pride of their tribe. Shy men were often expelled in shame from the tribe or treated poorly.


I think it depended on what tribe they were in. There were militant NA tribes and there were relatively peaceful ones. On a side note, I don't believe shyness equates with cowardness. A shy dog will bite you before a "normal" dog will.


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## Selbbin (Aug 10, 2010)

stylicho said:


> I think it depended on what tribe they were in. There were militant NA tribes and there were relatively peaceful ones. On a side note, I don't believe shyness equates with cowardness. A shy dog will bite you before a "normal" dog will.


You're right, it did depend what tribe. There was as much variation in NA tribes as there are in cultures world wide.

Shyness doesn't equate to cowardness, but there is a PERCEPTION that a shy man is a bad warrior/ protector because of a lack of assertion; and natural instinct tends to choose the more assertive behaving warrior/animal/man on the assumption that he/it is more powerful.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Lock Watch****
Keep it on topic, or I will get you......and your little dog, too.


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## bsd3355 (Nov 30, 2005)

millenniumman75 said:


> ****thread lock watch****
> keep it on topic, or i will get you......and your little dog, too.


lol


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## strawberryjulius (Jun 28, 2009)

Well geez, I hope everyone else who called him a troll gets a warning too. Oh wait, that didn't happen.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

I got one  though my term was "dill" xD.

I need to watch myself.


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## CourtneyB (Jul 31, 2010)

Star Zero said:


> What's with all these posts by guys about not being good enough for girls? And why the hell would you want a girl like you've described in the first place then???



^^This. And what exactly do all you men who post these bitter "poor pitiful me no girl will ever want me" threads expect to get out of them? This repeated commiserating not going to get you that girl you desire, i'll you that much.


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## CuartaVez (Dec 8, 2009)

Excellent post fellas, let's keep up the good work.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

****Thread Lock Warning****
Yep, killed the thread.
Warnings do NOT count toward a ban, but people seem to think they do.
That pic was inappropriate. Enough is enough - ARF ARF.


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