# Should I buy this lovely toy?



## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

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How could one resist this beauty, especially when on sale and when I have a $100 coupon to use toward it? I have second coupon that I'd use to get piles of 9mm ammo for it to eat. 18 round capacity is simply so sexy to a man used to the mere 6-shot capacity of a revolver.

Shocking question, I know, to all who think I'm uber-cheap. Guns cost plenty of money and they can eat ammo real fast.


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## AussiePea (Mar 27, 2007)

pew pew pew


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## brianwarming (Nov 12, 2009)

I prefer the SIG-Sauer P220...










in Left 4 Dead 2


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## rainbowOne (Sep 26, 2010)

If you want, just keep it away from me, guns creep me out


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

Everyone needs a hobby.


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

You already know my opinion but my opinion is unquestionably correct in this case, absolutely deserves being given twice.

Buy it. Put a bayonet on it. Film yourself stabbing a watermelon, hoisting it in the air, then shooting it and getting covered in fruit juice.


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## MindOverMood (Dec 12, 2009)

How much does something like this go for?


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## sda0 (Oct 16, 2009)

I was never impressed with the PT-92. I did have an opportunity to do a few runs with Taurus's PT1911 during Steel Challenge and thought it was a fantastic 1911-pattern pistol. The PT-92 fit and finish didn't feel too great, but for a budget 92FS clone i guess you can't go wrong...


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## redtogo72 (Jun 7, 2008)

Those toys wouldn't stand a chance in my world. I prefer this:









If you are playing to win, you might as well get the biggest and baddest, especially before the noobs grab it first. People will call you unskilled or cheap if you use it, but they are just jealous. When this baby fires, be careful not to get yourself caught in the blast!


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## Belshazzar (Apr 12, 2010)

MindOverMood said:


> How much does something like this go for?


Quite a lot, I'd imagine, from the fact that he has a $100 coupon.


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## millenniumman75 (Feb 4, 2005)

I don't know - it's named after a Zodiac sign.


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

MindOverMood said:


> How much does something like this go for?


$400-500ish.



millenniumman75 said:


> I don't know - it's named after a Zodiac sign.


I can't decide if you're making a joke or if this really matters, and why..


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## Sous la Mer (Apr 9, 2010)

Ospi said:


> pew pew pew


LMAO thank you so much, I really needed that


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

yeah go on ahead,i really want to get these but im broke lol
i want the ar15 hacked/tricked (or whatever they call it) so it can shoot fully automatic though.


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## Amber78 (Jun 25, 2010)

There are coupons for guns?


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## leonardess (Jun 30, 2009)

why are you buying this when you can get me something pretty.


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## DyingInTheOutside (Sep 26, 2010)

Have fun buddy, why don't you join the police force while you're at it


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

millenniumman75 said:


> I don't know - it's named after a Zodiac sign.


 A gun named after a bull, to be pointed at people who give you bull! :lol

Yes, I would get it. You derive a lot of pleasure from your hobby, so it is money well spent.


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## pita (Jan 17, 2004)

I know zip about guns, but it looks pretty slick.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

um... No, guns are evil. Run from it.


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## kiirby (Oct 8, 2010)

If you already own a gun I can't see much scope in buying another one.


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## Laurk (Sep 16, 2010)

The ammo capacity alone is just beautiful.


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## melissa75 (Feb 16, 2010)

I wouldn't personally want to own it, but shooting it for fun would be cool.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

MindOverMood said:


> How much does something like this go for?


Currently it's $474.99

I have a discount card that would give me $100 off a $500 purchase.

Wisconsin insists on double checking handgun purchases with the WI DOJ for an extra $13 (federal background check is already done on all guns and part of the gun's price). So that brings us to $487.99, so buy just enough ammo to hit $500 to qualify for the $100 discount. They count everything other than tax toward meeting the $500 level.

Then there is 5.6% sales tax, then take $100 off.

*Effectively the gun would cost $415.* I'm not counting the tiny bit of ammo I'd buy simply to hit the level needed for the maximum discount since I'd buy ammo anyhow if I bought the gun.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Laurk said:


> The ammo capacity alone is just beautiful.


18 rounds is very ordinary for 9mm pistols. A standard size Glock in 9mm holds the same, as does a Beretta 90-Two, as does a Ruger SR9, etc...

17 round magazine + 1 in the chamber.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

successful said:


> yeah go on ahead,i really want to get these but im broke lol
> i want the ar15 hacked/tricked (or whatever they call it) *so it can shoot fully automatic though.*


The NFA (passed in 1934) VERY heavily restricts fully automatic weapons, which must all be registered with the BATFE.

An AR-15 is the semi-auto version of an M-16 and manufacture of automatic weapons for civilian use was banned in 1986. If you live in one of the 41 states that don't ban machine guns at the state level, you can buy an M-16 that's 24+ years old for $15,000 or so.

Fifteen Thousand -- just in case you thought I accidentally put in an extra zero. Their supply is limited, so the price is sky high, so only those with money to burn who really want one will have one. I'll pass on a $15K gun.


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## contranigma (Jun 24, 2009)

wow...interesting poll. It is almost half and half between people who oppose guns and those that don't.


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## Manfi (May 30, 2010)

why somebody would want a gun is beyond me, especially when they already have one!!!


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## sarafinanickelbocker (May 16, 2010)

Toy it's not. I'm sure you jest though. I assume you know how to handle a gun, yes... I hope so. You also don't seem like you do dastardly things with your weapons (robbery, murder...) Anyway, it's up to you.


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## rumjungle (Feb 13, 2009)

Hey what a coincidence, I've used a 9mm Taurus before. Don't ask me for a review though, I was 13.

Did anyone else not raise an eyebrow when they read the thread title?



Ospi said:


> pew pew pew


Pew Pew indeed.


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## Duck (Oct 10, 2010)

...depends on what you're planning on shooting with it..


*looks accusingly*


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Amber78 said:


> There are coupons for guns?


Not specifically for guns, but for any purchase at a certain chain of stores that sell guns along with lots of other stuff in 165,000 square feet on two levels.

After all fees, taxes, coupons, and discounts I'd get that gun + 100 rounds of ammo for $401.30. I'd also earn $8 toward future purchases (2% of amount charged).

The two boxes of ammo would be bought to bring the total up to just barely over $500 before tax. Then the discounts would be applied.

No point in going any further over $500 than need be on that purchase as $100 off $500 is the highest level they offer. Discounts start at $30 off $100 and go up from there.

I got $10 of credit from this store back in August for getting my brother to take their Visa card. He got $60 of store credit -- he couldn't care less about guns, but I pointed out they sell pants, shoes, and other such items that he could clearly use (since he was wearing pants he got for free that were 4" too large in the waist and too long as well, even though he's 6'2").

I'd like to take my aunt out to this store -- I can get $40 for myself for bringing in anybody to apply for their Visa card by Oct 17. Actually one can earn up to $200 of stuff that way, though they'd have to find 5 new cult members to do so, which isn't so easy.


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## WinterDave (Dec 5, 2003)

No, you'll shoot your eye out!!


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

sarafinanickelbocker said:


> Toy it's not. I'm sure you jest though. I assume you know how to handle a gun, yes... I hope so. You also don't seem like you do dastardly things with your weapons (robbery, murder...) Anyway, it's up to you.


Yes, of course, I jest when I call it a "toy." I mean that in the sense that guns are fun! Well, shooting them is. Cleaning them, not so much.

I'm still a relative novice with guns, but I certainly take safety very seriously as anyone should with a gun.

On Friday I shot 560 rounds of .22 through my Ruger MK III. I was firing as fast as I could load the magazines. Rapid fire being relatively easy when the very mild recoil of a .22 barely moves a 40 ounce gun with 5.5" bull barrel off target.

On Tuesday I shot 200 rounds of .357 Mag through my Ruger GP100 (6" full lug barrel). Vastly more costly ammo, though one goes through less rounds when they're manually cocking the hammer and having to get the sights back on target as even a revolver nearing 3 pounds won't stay on target so easily due to the significant recoil of Magnum rounds.

If I buy this it will be my first center fire semi-auto.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

WinterDave said:


> No, you'll shoot your eye out!!


I would never fire a gun without eye protection, Dave. Safety first. I also wash my hands before leaving the range to reduce the risk of lead exposure.


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## Amocholes (Nov 5, 2003)

WinterDave said:


> No, you'll shoot your eye out!!





UltraShy said:


> I would never fire a gun without eye protection, Dave. Safety first. I also wash my hands before leaving the range to reduce the risk of lead exposure.












Ah say that was a joke boy! This boy's more mixed up than a feather in a whirlwind.


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## RyanJ (Mar 31, 2009)

Probably should wait till The Illuminati declare Sarah Palin president in 2012 and ammo prices go down... Uhhh...I've said too much...ignore that last part... Yes - good idea!


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## KumagoroBeam (Sep 15, 2008)

rumjungle said:


> Did anyone else not raise an eyebrow when they read the thread title?


:teeth


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## supersoshychick (Jun 4, 2009)

lol funny poll, but all seriousness, I don't understand why someone would want a gun, all it does is cause harm. "Fun"? wth...... are you crazy!?!? It's not a toy, it's a deadly weapon.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

supersoshychick said:


> lol funny poll, but all seriousness, I don't understand why someone would want a gun, all it does is cause harm. "Fun"? wth...... are you crazy!?!? It's not a toy, it's a deadly weapon.


Seeing how this isn't Society & Culture, I won't go into great detail as such debate belongs on S&C. I'd be happy to debate any legal/political/moral aspect of firearms with anyone on S&C as I have so many times before.

I'd add that I always welcome anyone who wants to discuss guns (or any other topic, for that matter) in more detail to contact me privately, by e-mail or PM. I freely give out my phone number for any who may wish to talk to me live. Some SAS members have found me so enjoyable to talk with that conversations have in numerous cases gone on for hours, with over 3 hours being the current record.

I hope the mods don't mind me making a few small comments though.

Shooting can be a great deal of fun. Various gun shops will have indoor handgun ranges with a whole collection of guns for rent and I'd personally suggest that non-shooters try it before they knock it. I bet some who say they don't like guns might just find out that holding such power in their hands is really fun after giving it a shot (no pun intended).

They'd also quickly learn that it takes a lot of skill to be good at it. It's like golf. In golf you try to put a tiny ball into a tiny hole, which takes a lot of skill (that I sure don't have). With a gun you try to put a far smaller projectile into a tiny bullseye, which proves to be vastly harder than Hollywood would make one think.

"Weapon" is a loaded term, that suggests how something will be used. To Lizzy Borden an ax is a weapon; to others it's a way to chop firewood. Same with baseball bats and kitchen knives. My prior gun purchase (which can be viewed in my photo album) was a *Ruger Mark III Target*.

As the model name clearly suggests, it was specifically made for shooting at things like paper targets.

This gun under consideration is a 9mm pistol, specifically a Taurus PT 92. It's a clone of the Beretta 92FS, which is the civilian version of the Beretta M9. The M9 is an iconic gun, as it's been the official sidearm of the US military since 1986 (or so). Previously, they'd been using the Colt M1911 chambered in .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), an even more iconic handgun. It was called a 1911 as that's the year the military officially adopted it. 9mm existed at that time, but was rejected in 1911 as "lacking stopping power." Keep in mind that in 1911 soldiers still rode on horseback, so perhaps there was a reason for the larger & more powerful .45 ACP round if you wanted to put a calvary unit out of commission by disabling his horse.

In the early 1980s Congress sought a replacement for the 1911 and demanded the military pick a 9mm model, such that the US would be in line with the rest of NATO using the same ammo all other NATO members.

Well, that's simply a history lesson so I guess not too controversial for a place other than S&C.

Yeah, I know I bored most of you to death such that you no longer need a gun to die.:lol

So, yes, this gun certainly does have the capacity to be used as a defensive weapon even though my intent is simply target shooting for which it is also well suited. If you look at the pic you may notice that it includes a tactical rail (in front of trigger on bottom side of frame). A light and/or laser sight could be mounted there, as one might wish to do if they wanted to be fully prepared to shed some light on bad guys that tend to work the night shift and to place a bright red or green dot on such a bad guy to show him where a bullet hole could soon be if he doesn't want to play nice.


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## Typical Guy (Mar 30, 2009)

Are you gonna wear it in your waistband all gangsta-like?



Amber78 said:


> There are coupons for guns?


I know. What a society, heh?


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

UltraShy doesn't need this gun, and will enjoy owning and shooting it. Isn't this the very definition of a toy? Why not then call it a toy? Sure it's a dangerous one; could put an eye out, and a good chunk of brain besides. That only means it demands careful handling and respect. He's capable of that.

By the way... I say he doesn't need this thing only because he already has a perfectly good handgun. If a man says he needs a gun in the first place, who am I to argue? Who are YOU to argue? Long as he's not harming anyone I don't see how it is anyone's business but his.


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## fanatic203 (Jun 23, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> Seeing how this isn't Society & Culture, I won't go into great detail as such debate belongs on S&C.


Well, you're kind of inviting debate by posting such a controversial topic here.



UltraShy said:


> Shooting can be a great deal of fun. Various gun shops will have indoor handgun ranges with a whole collection of guns for rent and I'd personally suggest that non-shooters try it before they knock it. I bet some who say they don't like guns might just find out that holding such power in their hands is really fun after giving it a shot (no pun intended).


You know what, you could be right. Maybe I would find it a little fun. But things that start out as "fun" can rapidly turn dangerous :no especially for people who get off on "holding such power in their hands":roll Even if you don't harm anyone with your gun, plenty of other people will, and there's no way to weed out people who will harm people from people who won't, which is why NOBODY should have guns.


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## Scrub-Zero (Feb 9, 2004)

Go ahead, make your day.


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## Arkturus (Dec 10, 2006)

If you really want it, why not? Do you have any other guns in mind or this for sure? I've had a very good experience so far with my Taurus, though it is a different model. Thats surely got to be a heck of a lot less expensive than the actual beretta, but mopst likely almost as good.


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## DyingInTheOutside (Sep 26, 2010)

I'm curious as to what is so exciting about shooting? I'm trying not to be too judgmental as I do play first person shooting video games and have killed my fair share of virtual terrorists.


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

I would have to at least hold one in my hand and see how it feels, see how the safety features are, and feel the trigger pull and action of it. But that would just tell me if it was right for me.

Those are the main things I look at when buying a pistol. I don't look so much at price even though $100 off is tempting. If features/feel were similar between two guns then I would probably go with the one I could buy cheaper. When I am in the market for a gun I like to go to gun shows where I can handle a lot of different guns. My 44mag revolver and 9mm were both purchased at gun shows. The 9mm doesn't fit my hand that great but it was purchased for my wife and it fits hers well.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

tlgibson97 said:


> I would have to at least hold one in my hand and see how it feels, see how the safety features are, and feel the trigger pull and action of it. But that would just tell me if it was right for me.
> 
> Those are the main things I look at when buying a pistol. I don't look so much at price even though $100 off is tempting. If features/feel were similar between two guns then I would probably go with the one I could buy cheaper. When I am in the market for a gun I like to go to gun shows where I can handle a lot of different guns. My 44mag revolver and 9mm were both purchased at gun shows. The 9mm doesn't fit my hand that great but it was purchased for my wife and it fits hers well.


Well, I bought it Sunday afternoon. Will be picking it up later today after my state's 48-hour waiting period.

On Saturday I carefully compared it to the Beretta 92 FS which sat two inches from it in the display case and was stunned by how very similar they look. I had the guy take them both out so I could feel the difference, and there is hardly any difference.

The Taurus version can hold 2 more rounds, adds a tactical rail, and has the safety/decocker mounted on the frame instead of on the slide as Beretta does. The Taurus allows for cocked & locked carry, while Beretta does not.

Speaking of fit, you likely know the very common complaint about the Beretta & Taurus 92 models: the grip is too big. It is indeed as wide as any grip I've personally held (I've never handled a Desert Eagle, but I'm going to bet it's one of the rare few that have a larger grip). Fits my big paws just fine and doesn't seem too large or heavy at all to me.

I ran 200 rounds through a rental Beretta 92 last December. I really like it and was told it was their most popular model in their rental fleet. Hope a substantially similar gun works just as well.

18 rounds, the capacity of this gun:


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

Arkturus said:


> Do you have any other guns in mind or this for sure?


In 9mm I'm very confident of the Beretta or Taurus 92 as top choice.

The standard complaints of too big & too heavy mean nothing to guy with XL hands who isn't looking for a pocket pistol to conceal and who appreciates that fact that more weight = less felt recoil.

I fail to get thrilled by Glocks, that have all the aesthetic appeal of a black block of plastic. Fine guns I'm sure, but seriously lacking in style, defining utilitarian. Also don't like DAO triggers (even if the Austrians demand to call it "Safe Action," as if even they deem DAO dirty and wish to distance themselves from it).

I was quite surprised by the kick of a 9mm when I tried it. After reading so many guys on gun forums who think the 1911 was created by a god, who designed it specifically to fire the holy .45 ACP round that they worship, I expected 9mm to be like a BB gun. I've learned to ignore the view of folks who think pistols fall into two categories: 1911s (that would be blasphemous to chamber in 9mm) and garbage.


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## MBL (Oct 5, 2010)

*Try this instead...*

SCREW TAURUS

Get one of these:

1. *S&W Sigma*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Sigma

2. *GLOCK* (21,22,31 are good ones)

www.glock.com

3. *Ruger SR40*

http://ruger.com/products/sr40/models.html

4. *HK USP45*

www.hkpro.com

5. *FN five seven* _ (the BEST) _

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven_


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## foe (Oct 10, 2010)

alte said:


> Looks like a a waste of money to me but I am no gun enthusiast, I don't understand its appeal.


I feel the same way.

Although, if it's for hunting then I can see why someone would could get into that stuff but I don't think handguns are made for hunting.


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## successful (Mar 21, 2009)

MBL said:


> SCREW TAURUS
> 
> Get one of these:
> 
> ...


all of those are look like nice guns especially the ruger & the last one...and i heard Glocks are the best never jam (don't know how true that is?) 
Im buying either a glock or smith and Wesson for my birthday, don't know too much about guns so i'll probably whichever one look best/more powerful lol


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

The Sigma is a budget Glock ripoff, and has a horrible trigger. Glock in fact sued Smith and Wesson over the design. The H&K is overpriced. The FiveSeven uses expensive proprietary moon ammo that manages to almost duplicate the old .22 Hornet while costing three times as much...oh who am I kidding.

get a deagle lol

(post 7.92, damn I am such a nerd for noticing every time my post matches a caliber)


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## tlgibson97 (Sep 24, 2009)

Nah, go old school with a revolver, and pink. Show how confident you are with your masculinity.

http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Undercover_53830.html


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## Neptunus (Oct 29, 2007)

UltraShy said:


> Well, I bought it Sunday afternoon. Will be picking it up later today after my state's 48-hour waiting period.
> 
> On Saturday I carefully compared it to the Beretta 92 FS which sat two inches from it in the display case and was stunned by how very similar they look. I had the guy take them both out so I could feel the difference, and there is hardly any difference.
> 
> ...


:lol It's like they're waiting in line for an amusement ride!


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## telefy (Oct 10, 2009)

Why Are Bailed-Out Banks Breaking into Struggling Borrowers' Homes? <--news cast

I hope they try that on a gun owner some day; one less ethically _rescheduled_ crony in the estranging environment of our country, and perhaps a valuable message sent to those lucky enough to be told to break into defenseless, frightened women's homes.

Excluding the 1960s, it's never seemed like such an *especially* wise decision to own a gun in this country. It feels like the fringe to me... but so did last week... UltraShy, can I bum $400 and a coupon from you, by any chance? All my credit cards are maxed out. =P


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

MBL said:


> 5. *FN five seven* _(the BEST) _
> 
> _[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven_[/URL]


Also the most expensive and exotic of the bunch. Other than FN I'm not aware of any other gun maker to adopt that most unusual caliber, that throws a really tiny bullet (less weight than a standard .22LR) at exceptional velocity. The exact opposite of typical hundgun ammo that throws relatively large hunks of lead at far lower speeds. Also seems like there is only one commercial producer of 5.7 ammo in the world (as far as I know). Unlike 9mm that is made by virtually every ammo company and universally available anywhere ammo is sold, being the most popular centerfire handgun cartridge in use today (and with over a century of history backing it).

I'd prefer to avoid exotic calibers as I know where many of them end up: abandoned & long forgotten. Only a tiny handful of calibers make up the vast majority of handguns made: .22LR, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .38 Spl, 357 Mag, and .44 Mag.

At the lowest bullet weights, the Five-seven even tops Smith & Wesson that claims their .460 Magnum to be the fastest handgun there is (at 2,300 ft/sec with a 200 grain bullet).


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/members/ultrashy-22/albums/new-gun/

I put up some pics showing what I bought.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

tlgibson97 said:


> Nah, go old school with a revolver, and pink. Show how confident you are with your masculinity.
> 
> http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Undercover_53830.html


Charter comes in a whole array of colors. Charter managed to turn firearms into fashion accessories.

Wife: "Honey, does the pink or the lavender revolver go best with my dress?"

Husband: "Couldn't you just buy a black gun, dear? Black goes with everything?"


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

VagueResemblance said:


> The FiveSeven uses expensive proprietary moon ammo that manages to almost duplicate the old .22 Hornet while costing three times as much...oh who am I kidding.


Isn't a Magnum Research BFR the only handgun a .22 Hornet will fit in, seeing how it has a longer case than a .44 Mag (and .357 Mag that are identical at 1.29").

FiveSeven ammo is actually small enough to put 20 rounds of it in a pistol with a grip that fits human hands. Still don't like the price.

Not sure about the concept of super fast & super tiny. What does a 5.7 ammo do when it hits a human given such a high velocity? Blast right trough or does such a tiny bullet bust apart?:stu

After all, many think a 230 grain .45 ACP round with the ballistics of a bowling ball is the ultimate defensive round -- BIG & slow. The polar opposite of a FiveSeven.


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## VagueResemblance (Apr 17, 2010)

UltraShy said:


> Isn't a Magnum Research BFR the only handgun a .22 Hornet will fit in, seeing how it has a longer case than a .44 Mag (and .357 Mag that are identical at 1.29").
> 
> FiveSeven ammo is actually small enough to put 20 rounds of it in a pistol with a grip that fits human hands. Still don't like the price.
> 
> ...


BFR, probably.. and I think Freedom Arms also has a revolver chambered in .22 Hornet.

And the reason for fast and tiny is, easier punching through body armor.


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## UltraShy (Nov 8, 2003)

VagueResemblance said:


> BFR, probably.. and I think Freedom Arms also has a revolver chambered in .22 Hornet.
> 
> *And the reason for fast and tiny is, easier punching through body armor*.


Yeah, I know standard bullet resistant vests will not stop an ice pick or knife as they concentrate so much force on such a tiny area. Similar to how a 110 pound girl in stiletto heals can leave dents in your vinyl or wood floors, even though a giant man in tennis shoes won't leave a mark no matter how much he weighs as the force is spread out.

Those who need to stop high velocity rifle bullets, like front line combat troops will have ceramic plates in their body armor.

I assume ordinary street cops stop at much lighter grades of body armor that will stop what they're most likely to get shot with -- like .357 Magnum or less.

Long before I had any interest in guns I recall media hype about the Black Talon, a hollow point bullet where the name was used to make you crap your pants in fear. I believe it's still sold, but with the name changed and the tip not painted black. Somebody forgot to explain to the media that a bullet that expands is made to leave a shallow wound of larger diameter and expanding ammo isn't at all likely to penetrate vests the way a solid non-expanding bullet is.


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## kenny87 (Feb 22, 2009)

should have went with the beretta. A better alternative would have been a XDM, cheaper also, and they hold 19 round. HK is also nice.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

kiirby said:


> If you already own a gun I can't see much scope in buying another one.


 You clearly haven't seen Tombstone.


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## PickleNose (Jul 11, 2009)

telefy said:


> Excluding the 1960s, it's never seemed like such an *especially* wise decision to own a gun in this country. It feels like the fringe to me...


 Where I'm from, everyone had a gun cabinet in their living room. It was just normal. They weren't crazy people. They were normal people. Well, as normal as hillbillies get. People don't get shot there.


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## Toad Licker (Nov 2, 2007)

Sure wth not it seems to be your thing.


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